19 Episode results for "Matt Waldman"

Matt Waldman - Rookie Scouting Portfolio

The College Draft with Ross Tucker

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Matt Waldman - Rookie Scouting Portfolio

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I know a lot of you went to my front page story dot com and took advantage of that deal. That is awesome, Adam Schefter among you, which is very cool. I am still very much into this past year's draft and breaking it down with different analysts, whom I really respect. And I didn't even realize how long it had been since. I had my guy. Matt Waldman on the show. Absolutely love. Matt you should follow him on Twitter at Matt Waldman. He got a budget for things going on people know about the rookie scouting portfolio. He's writing for football guys as well. Madda? Feels like it's been too long men. How are you? I'm doing great. You know, I've got a daughter who's about three weeks away from graduating marine boot camp. So it's been a while. Holy crap. Man. How old is she? She's twenty six so marine. Well, he loves it. So it's awesome. That is amazing. That's awesome. All right. So Matt I remember your background. But because I think it's been over a year. And I know we have new listeners can you fill in the listeners kind of on your background and how he got to the point where you are as respected of a draft analyst as you are now as certainly an odd one because I didn't play the game at a high level at all. But I came from an operations background really working on getting certified on different types of processes, you use to evaluate performance, and I decided to apply that football. So I'll always had a love for the game. And I had been a fantasy writer back in the early two thousands and thought this might be a good way to really develop my chops for studying the game citing film, and I wanted to just focus on the skill positions quarterback running back wide receiver and tight end. So I started the rookie scouting portfolio in two thousand six and made this made the. The publication of really transparent process for how I define everything that I look at. So that when you look at my rankings, you also see the process behind that. And so I study, you know, every year at least one hundred fifty of those prospects, I give you a process that's different than what you'd see with the NFL. But what I would argue, and what people who buy my publication who include personnel people on scouts media. And of course, lots of fancy players mentioned is that it's a process that is a little bit more transparent and easier to define so it helps you kind of build on it and learn from different things and also be able to make it a better process every year. So this this is fourteen years in the making, and it's a it's a publication that you know, has allowed me to to really not only learn the game, but help my readers. Learn more about different. Techniques than ideas, and that go into evaluate in the these positions that I study. So Matt when when does it come out, and how much is it? Sure. It's for twenty one ninety five you get the RSP pre-draft every April first that's downloadable PDF. That's you know this year. It was about eleven hundred pages. That's actually smaller than what I usually do because I've taken out some sections that people don't really need to see on that level. And then you get a post draft that comes out a week after the draft that includes a cheat sheet where I marry my ranking after the draft with average draft position that I studied for about fifteen sixteen leagues. So that you can find the sweet spot between safe. I think Nick Chubb was the best back in the draft last year, and where you should actually be able to get him. I give you that spot where you're not gonna wait too long. But you're not gonna get them. You're not gonna go to early to get them. And. Then after that, you also get access to my monthly newsletter, which is available from June through December that re- ranks three years of classes for you to take a look at as well, as you know, previews of the twenty twenty class and what's going on in camp and in preseason as well as the regular season different analysis on the twenty nineteen prospects. Wow. That's awesome. And who are some of the like, I know, you know, some of them, maybe you don't know all of them. But who are some of the people that subscribe, you know, I mean, you get various people who subscribe. I mean, I know, you know, for sure that I one of the guys that I can tell you about now who's actually kinda makings way out of the league is someone who's been subscribing since two thousand seven really complicated. The process is just I will give a name, but I'll say gentleman who has worked for well. Over a dozen teams has been a scout for a, you know, a handful of teams fulltime, and then also did a lot of analytical work full-time for a number of teams where he worked directly with general managers and was very complimentary of the process that you know, and just said that in terms of the pro, you know, obviously, when we first started doing he mentioned, hey, listen, you know, you know, you're scouting when I started, you know, obviously, you're not going to beat a twenty year veteran in terms of what he's doing. But. Terms of process. It was very far. He he mentioned it was very far ahead of what the NFL is doing. We could talk about that one day in terms of you know, why my process is different in probably a little bit better. But you know, there's a lot of talented guys in the NFL in terms of their I and what Dave accumulated is individuals who who do great great work, can you and we can talk about that in depth a different time. But can you give the listeners the cliffnote version of your process before we dive into some specific guys? Sure, you know, basically think about it this way if you if you're in an office, I'm gonna make it a really simple idea. But think about you're just trying to answer have someone that you've hired as a phone a certain way, if you take twenty you know, like five guys Varian experienced twenty thirty years experience in an in an operation sector in you, ask them. How would you like this person to answer the phone for your business? You're probably going to get five different answers. Because the way it's defined in absorbed in your different experience. Are going to give you a different result. And if it's not talked about and the way you wanted to find key processes aren't in aren't defined clearly and in writing somewhere that people can really see it and act on end. How you want value in score it, then you create a lot of variation. And that can often mean that your your own team was looking at different things in value in different things in an unhealthy way. It's nice to bring different perspectives to the table. But when are key processes that you want everyone to be on the same page with if it's not clearly defined than you don't know how to really build on it and make it better as you continue to learn as a team and also it can create situations where people have misunderstands of what you want even be looking for. And so my publication is really good at being able to be flexible in grow. But at the same time make it very clear what it is that I'm looking for and that that makes a lot lifelock. Easier than say the zero through nine grading scale that looks like an employee evaluation where you, you know, no one really ever gets a nine. No one ever gets, you know in the lower ranges, and is always kind of it. You know, it creates a situation where some people want it to be safe and say, well, I really like him, but I'm gonna give him a fourth round gray. Because I know that that that's you know, that's not much of a risk or I really don't like him. But I don't wanna pan them. Because he's you know, he's got a high draft profiler stock in our community. So I'm going to give him a fourth round trade. So you get these situations where even the little bit of the politics that goes into it can create some issues as well. Yeah. That makes sense. How do you end up grading them? Matt I ended up grading them on one hundred point scale, which I define and everything that I grade is kind of a yes, no fashion in terms of did they prove that they could do something consistently enough. Or did they not fruit that they could do it? And then I also use a grading tier system. I used to different grades lung by breadth of talent eats terms of. Here's the basic things at NFL player could do in a broad sense that their position that you would like to see them do and how many of those skills do they have an that's on one hundred point scale and then on different hundred point scale. I do depth of talent where they may not always have the highest grade. But if they do certain things extremely well. That can actually elevate how well they play. And so you get a chance to see both in checklist format and then in a tiered format across each of the different positions. So say with running back, I'll look at different aspects of decision making an Jila. And pass catching and blocking and power and balance, and you get to see all the running backs how they're tiered against each other. But it's not really so much against each other. But within tiers of performance, whether they have how I define for instance, star caliber performance versus starter caliber performance to, you know, committee caliber on down, and they each get placed in those areas, and if they qualify for certain levels of that. But maybe not everything they kind of fall in between, and they get certain levels of bonuses that are projectable to you know, that I've deemed that they're projectable things that they can get better at. I love it. I'm now eleven hundred pages. That's just insane. Matt, but I love it. And I love talking with you about these guys. So let's dive into it since you have it graded the way you did. And since you've already looked at it post draft. I guess what I'm most interested in Matt would be either the guys that you really liked that maybe other people weren't as high on. And you think they were great picks for certain teams, and guys that you really had some questions about and you're not so sure about their selection by those teams, and you know, the process will play out, and we'll see what ends up happening. So why don't we start with the positive? You know, some guys that you really liked maybe more than the quote unquote community did and you felt like the teams that took them got trauma. Lendus value and made excellent picks. Sure. I mean, I think we'll start off even just with the quarterback position class at a lot of people don't feel like is as good as what we saw in the past few classes, and what made to come. But I like will Greer better than most people? I'm I think he integrates his skills. Extremely well. The quarterback position is a as a performance oriented position. So when you only study at based on physicality, you know, or technical skills, or or or even just whiteboard intelligence memorization type of intelligence that made the maybe the wonder look lick is the only thing that that's the only thing that the Wunderlich may actually capture in a way that's great in terms of project into the field. There's a lot more to the quarterback position in terms of high you integrate in process that game, and that takes emotional intelligence confidence on skill to be able to improvise and to be able to take despair it skills and put them all together, physically mentally, emotionally, intuitively and. Make good quarterback. Patrick, Mahomes was the guy really loved because of that will Greer. I think is the best in this class at integrating the game. Even if he doesn't have that monster arm. He has great anticipation, and when you see him in Carolina Cam Newton has two years left on his deal. Second shoulder surgery in consecutive years. As been a terrific player, but also has taken a lot of punishment to his body in terms of his playing style. He likes to hang in there in the pocket like an anchor and waiting for the play to come open or the receiver to come wide open. And then throw the ball grooves better anticipatory thrower. Even now than Newton is he's not, you know, at Newton's level in terms of advancement of the game yet. But he's a guy that his receivers met shop well with him because those guys are fifty fifty tight coverage types of catchers, they're more guys he to throw in stride and let them run. So I think Greer's terrific fit for a couple years, and he gets a couple of years to. Hopefully on at least maybe intermittently if Cam Newton doesn't stay healthy at least get some time on the field. And if he does he'll at least have he'll have some time to really prepare. I also like Darwin Thompson, the running back out of Utah state affair bid within his fit with Kansas City's nice because when you look at Thompson, he's a he's a short guy with good quickness and decent speed who can catch the ball. But he's also a fairly strong player who's been fairly would be an understatement. The guys kind of a physical freak in terms of his strength. I talked to his high school coach dub Matic's who's a terrific coach in terms of work that I would recommend our four system is something that has him on the national coaching circuit all the time. And he talked about, you know, his days with Thomson and said this guy could have been Olympic powerlifter. And when you watch him play you can see him run through the law. Lots of tackles wraps hits. You know, even knows not just someone reaching in slice Wotton on the leg. I mean, this is a guy that runs through all three levels of the defense and consistently breaks tackles when he gets the ball. And when you combine that with his ability to make people miss in catch the bond space. He reminds me a lot of a Dion Lewis with a little more thump or Brian Westbrook with a little bit more thump, which are pretty heady comparisons. I don't think he has Westbrook speed. But I think he or the top vision that Westbrook had but his decision making good enough that I think it's going to be something to build on. It will be a good fit and Kansas City. I like miles boykin in Baltimore. Both those receivers and Rossi nominee allowed people are worried about Lamar Jackson. But I think about the fact that even though the ravens were you know, they're run game on offense of line. Ran the same place with flacco as did with Jackson, and they kind of prepare. Ahead of time to to us what they did with Jackson once they put him on the field. They were prepared for that. In the summer the way flacco executed that in the passing game in terms of executed the plays. There wasn't a lot of the zone. Read in the different option title looks which changes the timing between the receivers and the quarterback and Jackson had to deal with that. So that's part of the reason why the percentage the percentage was low in terms of completions. And it was half it happened mid year on so it was the first part mid year where he was really getting at regular reps with his receivers to really build that report. So when you look at the receivers bringing with Brown boykin, both guys can run decent routes. I think boy the better route runner, even though people talk about him as if he's more developmental Brown's a guy who can improvise a little bit better in win with his speed and find the open zone holes. Whereas I think boykin one on one on the outside is very strong very skilled at being able to, you know, get that Dr step and drop his way. And come back to the ball. And he's a guy that you know, I think if he has superior quarterbacking at Notre Dame we would have heard a lot more about him in a positive way than what we did. And when you take you know, boykin and Brown together, they're gonna find open creases. They're going to get quick hitting plays and the defense is still has to account for in Jackson in the run game. And that means they're gonna find those little creases in. They're going to be able to get yards after that. In addition to some you know, the deep game Jackson continues to build. So I think it was great what the ravens did there. And of course, decay medcalf. I mean, you look at Metcalf in Seattle, and it's kind of like people worried about the route running. But there were I think, you know, his ability to bend in Dr may hurt him on curls in comebacks, but any type of route that breaks ninety degrees or less. He's going to be fine on in terms of his speed and quickness to do that. And he's has such a quick upper body. A violent upper body. He someone that can can knock people off balance who try to jam him or avoid that that jam and be able to then, you know, work downfield on some of these vertical routes and even just intermediate rows. So that you have a decent, you know, runway for takeoff. And he's a guy that that, you know, my biggest concern is is his build really fitting fitting for a wide receiver, and that would be about it. I mean as long as he doesn't have. He's a guy that doesn't have injuries left, and right that are you know, tissue type injuries than he should be a huge big play threat for them. So those are some of the guys that are really love. So I gotta ask you just because it's been so criticized, and I actually wrote about it in my column for the athletic this week just the overwhelming criticism of the pick and the player. I gotta no matter what you thought of Daniel Jones breaking him down the quarterback. From Duke that was the sixth overall pick for the giants. Yeah. I didn't love him. And I I've been on a number of giant shows talking about him pre draft. And the thing is is that I think that the, you know, from what I heard the scouting community or maybe not even sky in the community. NFL teams have bought into the idea that he's a finished product from the David cut cliff tutelage the quarterback coach, you know, for the Manning's. And so that you have the relationship with the Manning's and cut cliff as being in common there. But from what I heard that's been played up a little more than maybe it should be. And that, you know, obviously, the pupil has to be as good as the as the teacher, and whether or not he was even really given that quality of teaching or that amount of teaching is still kind of up for debate from what I'm hearing. But when you look at his game one I see is a guy who seems to be a half step behind in terms of getting rid of the. Ball identifying the coverage being able to be on the same page where when you see that leverage of the safety or corner or linebacker e need to let that ball go. And he's a guy where his footwork and his and his timing and tempo seemed to be off from being able to make those decisions consistently where he's either hitting the really should staying with the re long enough or moving onto fat asked from the I read the next raid. I see him I see instances where the communication with his receivers was consistently off that may have been some of the fault of the receivers. But as a quarterback, if you're consistently having that issue than it's your responsibility. And so, you know, it's a small thing. But when you add it to the other layers things I mentioned in addition to the fact that as tough as he is in the pocket. I really admires pockets off needs to stand in there and take punishment and just keep firing and being aggressive. I also just a not a big fan of how he diagnosis information. Pre post snap. Really how his foot work in terms of being able to be crisp enough in fast enough in live fire, and the balls just a bit off, you know, charged probably ten games for every quarterback. And I charged a variety of different information on you know, by zone of field. And I look at things both in terms of catchable accuracy, whether the receiver had had a reasonable chance to catch the ball. Even if he had to make an adjustment outside his range of of stride. Or what Bill Walsh would say is you know, pinpoint accuracy. And I and I grade both and Daniel Jones, even his is what I would call general. Accuracy isn't great for each zone of the field. When you look at say next gen stats where they studied, you know, tens of thousands of throws more in and showed where the percentile thresholds. He's just below a lot of them. In the intermediate end, you know, vertical Dc games because I. Vied the field into deep vertical intermediate in short, and he just wasn't there. So when I see him I see the talent that people are looking at. But I think it's kind of an old school look in terms of he's big he's big armed. He's book. Smart. You know, he has some technical facility in terms of baseline in terms of how you know, the the form that he uses to make these things, but they think well if we can throw him in and give him some extra tutelage hill develop. But I think that the way he processes the game is really a lot slower than it should be and even even down to just getting passes batted down that he could have been responsible for being a little quicker at you think, you know, people think column Arabia guy who have too many passes about down. But in the ten games. I studied of each of those guys Murray only had one pass deflections Jones had I think thirteen or fifty I know that was in the teens over that same ten game span Jones. Has that nice item? But it's about the tempo. And ultimately, that's what's Pertz him. Just out of curiosity. What did you think of Haskins? I thought Haskins was pretty good. I think he's I had him third on my on my pre draft board. And I think that in theory his fit in Washington is nice because they have a good offensive line. When that line is healthy. And they have some decent veteran skill talent around him that if he needs to play earlier than later, he if this team can stay healthy, he can do some decent work from the pocket. But kind of like, you know, a lesser version of Philip rivers in terms of ability to hang in the pocket because rivers is so strong that even though he's not unbelievably mobile, he he's able to get through wraps and contact and shake people off and find just an nifty little move, you know, to the left or the right or forward to to find that open a man in his anticipations fantastic with Haskins. I see a guy who's who got better and better in his first season. And you could see him get more confident than pre snap breeds his confidence in being able to move the pocket and make some off, you know, off balance throws off platform types of throws. But he's a guy that needs to stay on his spot and be able to throw with great timing and rhythm, and he can do that. But he needs a healthy pocket to be able to do that on a consistent basis and not be leaned on do, you know, Russell Wilson like things or Aaron Rodgers type things where even Matthew Stafford types of work. So he's it's good. But Washington hasn't been able to keep its line healthy or a lot of its players healthy. And you know, that's that may be more coincidence than anything or it could be a product of of you know, of things that are deeper that would require more study. But you, but regardless as if they can stay healthy Haskins has a tough has a tougher time than it looks on paper. But I think in theory. I like the fit. I'm just waiting to see if that line, can, you know can continue to be healthy in gel. And if it does than his development path could be smoother. So you mentioned Daniel Jones, you weren't a huge fan who are some the other guys that. You know, went higher than than you would have taken. Let's say, yeah. I mean, I think that guys that I think went a little higher than I than I would have preferred I think Andy Isabella on on papers. Nice fit out of UMass certainly love his speed. He can catch the ball. And you love in in terms of just rob -bility to to make people take false steps and to make people miss or trick them with his movement that just kind of like Braxton Miller even watching him at the senior bowl practices. People. Get impressed with kind of that playground movement where you're trying to get a defender to move with a lot of lateral side to side movement. That's a waste of movement. You know, you want us you want to always be attacking downhill and even with your movement at sets up you're moving downhill while you're doing it. And I thought that any Isabella got little overrated due to do on data production as opposed to. How he got that production in big games? And so when I see I see that he could be fit in cliff Kingsbury offense as a slot player. But it's one of those deals where there's four different. There's four guys who can play the slot that they pretty much have on that team. Now FitzGerald is a guy who's evolved into more of a slot option as as he's aged on curious to see they're gonna stick him back out as a flanker split in the Kim Butler can act who I really loved could be could actually play in the slot as a big slot role. Christian Kirk was drafted last year who's ideally more of a slot player. So, you know, the the fact that they they've got maybe one guy who can who can obviously very good at multiple positions in FitzGerald and with Butler as Butler grows. You still have a situation where I don't see a guy like Isabela being used outside a ton unless it's just specific plays where they motioned him pre snap. And they know he's not gonna. Get pressed 'cause he struggled in my opinion against press coverage in on tape and the injuries where it was it was a lot of wasted movement. And when he got you know, rerouted or played physically he got distracted, and you could see him get distracted with the ball arriving on time and him not being able to make the play. Jalen Hurd is a guy who I really find intriguing the former five star running back at Tennessee. But he, you know, I thought he really turned himself into a fine receiver prospect in terms of his footwork quickness billeted drop and drive and he catches the ball pretty well. And he's he starts off. Moore's a big slot at Baylor. But you can see that potential for him to be split end or even a flanker. And they use them as a running back still on. I think whole that work is a receiver actually made his footwork better as a runner, and he was a lot cleaner and quicker and more precise with his footwork from being able to. To pick in slide to open creases in be patient. But they kind of say while he's kind of a receiver, and that we're talking is he gonna play more running back is gonna be a wing an H back type of player in line tight end possibly and the the way they define that could be a good thing in terms of the use it well enough. But if he just turns into a pure gadget, I we joked the gadgets get lost in the inbetween couch cushions in the NFL. And and to me very few teams. Do a great job of making the best use of players don't have a position. And I'm a little worried that you know, in San Francisco, if they've already have some of their receiving receiver d'etre pretty well defined that I fear that a guy like heard who could be very good as a wide receiver might get lost as a as a gadget in that mix. That's interesting and anybody else that jumps out to you on the negative part. Yeah. I mean, I think that they're more later guys. You know, this is a class where it's interesting because some of the talents who are who are most fascinating might be some of the running backs who are later on dick later on in this track. I think Trayvon Williams endeavoured single territory guys. But I thought were difficult evaluations goes single-tier is a guy who has fantastic awareness in terms of peripheral vision setting up his timing of his, you know, in terms of his pacing any as good footwork. And he's very patient. And because but the problem is is that he's short he's small. He's slow and he's not very quick. And so he disguises some of that quickness or is able to come and say it with his vision, but I'm just not positive that he has the athletic skills that are going to be good enough that he can come. Compensate for with his vision in the NFL game. So he's in a crowded depth chart with, you know, in buffalo where maybe they trade the Shawn McCoy and certainly reporting Frank gore both older guys who, but they're both still find players in Frank Gore's is just an anomaly in football in terms of his age. And I've heard people joke that he's the best slow player that they've ever seen it, you know, at the running back decision. But he's the guy that you know, running back coach is pretty much give tape of the young guys to learn. But even with beyond those guys TJ Yeldan has developed into a really competent running back. Am I think is a sound one as well? So I think single Terry has a tough time, and we look at Trayvon Williams shirt geo Bernard may be gone, you know, sooner than later and be with somebody else. But Joe mixing certainly a fine talent. And and took that next step last year from his rookie year. And then you still have you know, the, the rookie Anderson who got draft. Alongside Ronnie Anderson local home, and if he can stay healthy, get healthy and stay healthy. I don't think I don't think Trayvon Williams that at best Trayvon Williams gets the geo Bernard role but his blocking while it's gotten better, and he's become a very good blocker. You look at his contact balance. And I have concerns about that. When he gets downhill yet. He can he can work downhill and get under people in move people little bit. But at the same time when you see a guy lose direct collisions with defensive backs even Cornerbacks. And they're flat sorted, and you're running downhill with a good runway, and you still can't get headway, and you fall backwards, and it happens repeatedly there. There's only one guy I've seen over the past fourteen fifteen years, I've tracked and studied who's failed in that contact balance area for my evaluation and has had a successful starting tenure in that was Marlin MAC last year. That's the only guy. So, you know, I've I've studied you know, hundreds and hundreds of running backs at this point. So those are two guys that concern me a little bit. And then I would say it's I think JJ Sega Whiteside is a fine player. But it's kind of an interesting fit for me. Just because it he's more to me. He's more of an Al Sean Jeffrey type of player you already have Jeffrey in that lineup. Are you're gonna have to guys at plan that level Zack in or hurt. In terms of the diversity of what you wanna do with your wide receiver core is going to be enough. And he fights the ball little bit. He catches the ball with his palms. I more than his fingertips. I and that allows the ball to kind of ricochet in a way where you have little fighting the ball and double catching the ball. And I think against tighter coverage that's gonna be interesting to see if he can fix that pretty quickly. And then the last guy on mentioned, his Preston Williams who is an undrafted free agent. But a guy who I kinda. Joked that AJ greens type of wide receiver physically conceptually, technically is like the all pro version of that model of wide receiver then you can look at at Preston Williams and say he's kind of like the the borderline starter kit. You know, the guy who might be able to develop into a starter. But not be quite as good as what green offers in that package, but in he's a guy who's had some off-field issues and a lot of it has been, you know, he's got to become a more mature professional while. I don't rate a lot on character. When you, you know, someone who lived in Miami knowing that by we all know that Miami's a place where you can have a lot of fun that you can also get into a lot of trouble in Miami. It's much more out there in front of you. And I wonder about the fit I like the fit for the team. But we'll see I think pretty quickly as especially if he performs well and gets you know embraced by the team. Team. And by the public for what he's able to do on the field whether he can stay mature off the field. And if he can do that in Miami he can do that anywhere. But if he can't we're going to hear about very soon. Well, now that you've all heard about Matt wall minute, you hadn't already you to check out the rookie scouting portfolio. And you gotta follow him on Twitter at Matt wallman as you can tell he is excellent anybody their rights over thousand pages about anything. Is a total psycho who I do. I. Appreciate matt. Thanks much coming on the show member going through it again soon. Ross. It's always a pleasure. Thanks again. You know, the cool thing about Matt is just the amount of time. He puts in his process, and you can actually take some of his thoughts and go to bed online dot AG for some of the rookie prop pets that. They already have up there. So if you're a fantasy guy obviously met drops on a knowledge from fantasy football perspective. But if you like to bet on things and make games more interesting or make seasons. More interesting. There's a lot of rookie prop up at bed online dot AG. And if you just use the promo code podcast one you get that fifty percent, welcome bonus. So maybe you want to bet on the conference finals that start tonight in the NBA Steve fezzet, and I will be talking about that on the college on the even money podcast today. We. Wanna make sure you get Steve starts before you place, any wagers on the conference finals Tiger Woods in the PGA. Steve's all over that. Or maybe just wanna bet some profits over a bed online dot AG using promo code podcast one. They'll do it for the college draft today. Certainly check out yesterday's Ross Tucker football podcast. There was so much news to get to since I've been away for a week and hadn't done any tuck stakes. There was a lot. And they're all be be a lot of conversations tomorrow with Andrew Brandt on the raw soccer football podcast such as Joe flacco to mentor or not to mentor. That is the question of the net. The cakes kicked man, we're all tapped out. Enjoying your frosty. One while listening to the college draft. Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, make sure you're subscribing to the Russ Tucker football podcast fantasy feast and even money. Punt casts all available on items and Russ Duggar dot com or wherever podcasts can be found. It's the Memorial Day sale at mattress firm. Enjoy one of the best mattress holidays of the year. With one of the best deals around. Get a king matches for the price of a Queen. And Queen for the price of a twin that storewide savings of up to seven hundred dollars on the best brands like a new cert- of memory foam Queen mattress for the price of a twin for only three hundred ninety seven dollars. Hurry in your budget stretches further at mattress firm. Restrictions apply. Visit participating locations only for over heels. Visit mattressfirm dot com slash sale.

Matt NFL football Trayvon Williams Brown boykin Lamar Jackson Daniel Jones Twitter dot Joe flacco Miami Matt Waldman Haskins Adam Schefter Andy Isabella Kansas City Cam Newton Brian Westbrook Greer
'Valentine's Views' podcast: Where's the value at WR, TE? Draft analyst Matt Waldman tells us

Big Blue View

56:25 min | 1 year ago

'Valentine's Views' podcast: Where's the value at WR, TE? Draft analyst Matt Waldman tells us

"Welcome to another edition of the Valentine's views podcast giants fans a week ago. We had Matt Waldman of the rookie scouting portfolio on with us. And we spent an hour or so talking quarterbacks, but that is not all that does met discusses Matt is knowledgeable about all of the various skill positions. So today we have met joining us once again what we're going to do is go through the the receiver positions as they relate to the giants Mets on the line right now. How you doing today? Matt thanks for joining us again. Thanks for having me back at a good time. Talk about quarterbacks in this should be just as fun. Well, yeah. You know, I got to give you a hard time though. Because since the last time, we talked I saw that you did Patty train us podcast. I saw that. You did big blue kickoff live with John smell. You know, come on, man. I'm telling you. I'm a I'm a mercenary. What can I tell you? How it just it? Just just tells you that you're a popular guy that people value your opinion, you know, as we do here. So that's good stuff. And I'm just I'm glad that people want me back, but you know, Patty, and I used to do art used to show together back in the day. And I always I always give her a hard time about steel in my guests. Well, she certainly she does fine work as well. You know, and and it was kind of funny because when I when I heard you talking about that earlier that she she she contacted million than I got the contact from feebles Schnell that was pretty funny too. So I thought it's going to make our time coming back on this show. But whatever it's worth, of course, I am. You know? Hey, it's it's all it's all in fun. And you know, it's all people love talking about the giants. And so let's let's do some of that, Matt. And let's start with this. The the news that broke yesterday was the giants signing sterling shepherd to a pretty long. I think four year extension supposed to be in the neighborhood of forty one million dollars. Just you know, from your perspective a quick thought on on the kind of player sterling shepherd is in the the extension that he got from the giants. I think it shows that they're looking for someone that they want to build his receiving core around, and they feel at ease the type of worker the type of route runner the consistency factor in his game is good enough that you wanna lock him up for a while. I get that. He's a he's a player that you know, reminds me a little bit of a former giant that I really loved in this in when he came out in the draft. And that was during the time of the Matt line area, which was Steve Smith. I was a big fan of the giants. Steve Smith before he got hurt because he could do a little bit everything he can stretch the field for you with tremendous quickness a clutch player. He was a terrific route runner he could play a little bit in a little bit outside as well as inside. And I think that shepherd is a player that I think they hope can develop where he has that kind of Steve Smith upside. And I think that he's already even if he doesn't reach that point. He's already reliable guy that you can lock in. Place. No that you're gonna get someone who can make the correct route adjustments be there for quarterback create a good target for his man and be able to help them move. The changes wells occasionally makes a big place. It's funny. You mentioned Steve Smith, I always liked Smith. But toward the maybe it was after he started to to suffer some injuries. I always think of him as catching fall down Steve Smith. Yeah. Guy that catch get make the catch and get down. No yards after catch nothing. Yeah. And that was that was it after the injuries at pretty much didn't form. And I think before that you had he was a guy who made Matt liner. Look a lot better than maybe liner was. So it was a is just one of those things. Sometimes it's a shame, but grew life spans are short in the NFL injuries that you'd factor for that. What is your take? Obviously the giants signed golden Tate in. I think we've talked about this a little bit. What is your take on the concern that some people have that that take in shepherd our guys that that have similar skill sets? And that it might be hard for them to play together. I think that I think it's there's some validity to that. If the offense doesn't show the magic nation should, but there are some differences here that are noth- to to kind of give them separate roles for take take can be more of a flanker in the sense where he's tough. After the cash he's a physical player. He's I think he's a little better than shepherd winning the ball at the catch point. And he has the speed to get deep, and we saw that with him in Seattle when he had the connection he had with Russell Wilson, you know, in Detroit, the the more recent exposures people had a think of as a slot receiver. And they forget about the fact that he wasn't outside presence who could win the ball in the air could get deep. An additional fact that he runs like a, you know, like a Scott back with a little power after the catch. So this is a physical player, and you get you know, shepherds kind of craftsman you get a real physical presence who can block who can you know, who can also be a presence after the catch in a way that construct the fuel horizontally for the for the giants because of the presence of saquon Barkley can split them out opposite sides, and you get the players. Defensive backs linebackers out to be equally concerned about when they have the ball in space, the other thing, I guess that. I think about is the fact that you have you know, offenses aren't static. These guys don't line up in the same spot, you know, every single time. I mean, unless you're running the Mike McCarthy, you know, offense ninety five ninety five percent of the time in eleven personnel. Which giants fans are familiar with? Thanks to Ben mcadoo guys move around. So I think there's there's that benefit to these guys aren't always going to be in the same place the same alignments, absolutely 'cause they're looking for matchup advantages, and you're gonna see certain things where baby teams will look at Sheppard and gold tape and you'll see vendors kind of look at the mess. The same kind of role in certain situation and realize that that kind of got numb outfox there and put into in the situation where take might have a little bit more of an advantage with certain types of routes or certain type of look, and that can lead to some stakes in terms of opportunities to create pre snap a mismatch is or league defenders into a false sense of security that there may be they may be running the blocking on this play as opposed to going out for a route. So there's there's levels things you can do. And I do think they're different enough players that it's that people are just kind of looking at. What happened lately with Tate in Detroit as opposed to what he was in Seattle. It'll be interesting to see what happens once the giants. You know, get into lab and get all these guys on the field and see what they can create. But I think we know, you know, heading into the draft here in a couple of weeks that the giants I wouldn't consider them to have a complete receiving core by any stretch of the imagination. So I would suspect I mean at some point in this draft that they have to dip into the receiver pool. So let's do that right now. And what I really wanna do. We're kinda going to go through sort of where the giants pick and the players who might be value at at the different spots in the draft. And to be honest. I mean looking at Tate looking at shepherd looking at Korey Coleman who they brought back. I mean, the one thing that the giants don't. Have is that bigger bodied guy that outside guy on unless you wanna make Evanston grenade to that guy. So we're kinda I'm kinda going to ask you to as we think about it to lean toward talking about about those guys that are a little different type of player than what the giants have now. Yeah, that sounds great. And I think before we do that. Let's just think about that for second to like two little cabbie outside like mentioned before really delve into this one is that it is quite awful that they decide that they wanna make Ingram guy that plays more on the outside and be more receiver and then they draft the tight end. And there's plenty of great tight ends in this class. So where you can get a complete tight end a better blocker than Ingram who might be a better interior receiver than Ingram. And then he could putting your money outside Lyneham win with his size in his speed. Leaping ability in the other caveat is this is that if if you talk to anybody in the scouting community. Who's who's who's worked in that community? You learn pretty well that that there's more variation in greats for for receivers among teams or between teams than any position that they look at in the NFL allow that has to do with like you were alluding to the type of position that type of role that you're looking at whether it's a slot receiver split end your flanker. Or if you're looking at players who can be combination of two to three of those roles, and that can filter your pool in a way where you may want. He may have a second round grade on a player and three other teams may have sixth-round grade on that player. So as we go through this, you know, you wanna keep that in mind because most likely, you know, I'm gonna name some players, and we're gonna talk about them in a second third or fourth round and some of the mega much higher or much lower interesting. But you know, at least. It goes back to the fact that there is no such thing as a hard and fast rule of you know, who the best player available is because two different sets of eyes to different teams, you know, even different scouts within certain teams will always see players in a different way. And it depends largely on on what they feel like they need what they're scheme is in. What players they're teaming that those guys with right? So where I wanna start is at number six. Now, interestingly, we were we were kidding about Pat traina in locked on giants the other day and and full disclosure here. I actually did Patty show earlier this week myself. You see see there? It is. Well, you know, I used to co host over there. So once in a while, I dropped by you know, just so folks remember me, but it's funny because she asked me what I thought if there was one sort of outside the box move that nobody had really thought about that would kind of turn the giants draft on its head. She asked me, you know, what that move would be. And I need to start at number six. I keep hearing that the giants are doing an awful lot of work on TJ Hopkinson. And I think there's no wide receiver that I can think of that that would have value at six, but I can't necessarily see the giants doing this at six with all of their other needs. But I keep thinking, you know, if they wanted to turn the draft on their heads Hopkinson. Might be a guy to look at it six. Oh, I think it's definitely something that you have to look into because he is that good of a player. He can start right away for team because he is that a block he you can use him on the wing you can use in line against offensive ends Outside Linebackers. You can use as a fullback you can split them in the slot or outside, and he can do all he's got the size already to anchor in hold up. He's a good puncher younger stands out. Get come off the line with his back loan as pads low. He can turn very quickly turned defenders quickly. He's a good lead blocker. So you get someone who's already at better blocker based on what we saw last season than evidence grow. And you get a player who also can work the scene down field and win contested plays and run after the catch. So if you wanted to say, listen we ever receiving core. We're just gonna put Ingram. You know at split end or put him at flanker. We're gonna put the other guys where the where they need to be. And we can rotate Coleman we can use Latimer in certain leverage situations, if he continues to show up, and if that's the case, then you end up consolidate your position and part of that is that you could use Ingram as the second tight end. He doesn't have to be on the front side of blocking schemes. So he can end you can be the guy can sneak out of the backfield sneak out off the line and use him on that level or you could be more multiple in your look. So you have two tight ends split. One out pre snap motion them to the receiving parcel. You can take advantage of what the coverage shows you. And now you're looking at a rob gronkowski Aaron Hernandez type of situation in terms of how these players could be used in the way that the patriots did your to go and that I can see why they're studying. That because when you have multiple tight ends that creates a lot of issues the colts did a lot of great work with that last year where they even ran things like three verticals four verticals using three and four tight ends. And looking like they were going to you know, they're gonna run the football. Just you know, compressed the box play you know, short short yardage football. And the next thing, you know, three of those tight ends or running verticals off out of the formation. They're getting big place out of that. And you could send e how the giants decide listen we've got saquon Barkley we want to look like we're going to be a physical power to eat. But we also want to be multiple enough that we can spread the field in as soon as as soon as the defense decides they're gonna use personnel and take advantage of them for that. So I love the idea is very creative one. We'll see if they take it seriously enough to to go that route. I have my doubts just because of all of the they've spent so much time talking about how much they need to upgrade their defense. You know, how much they they really could use a right tackle. And of course, you know, the quarterback discussion, which I don't think they're going to go quarterback at six, but it it's an intriguing idea. I just I think I would be I would be shocked if they pulled the trigger on it at six agree. And I think if they went really that could probably go around or two later there some guys that can still do that with guys like Dawson knocks of ole miss is of very fine blocker who has that same versatility? And can also catch the ball up thanking. He's terrific athlete is just underrated because he wasn't used a lot as receiver at ole miss. But he could be bargain version that for Hopkinson there's a guy really love tight end by traverse. John West go from West Virginia who's a former quarterback. When he came up or high school quarterback. But he's he was literally praised as part of the offense of live for West Virginia last year in terms of how Weli block he's about two hundred seventy pounds. Unbelievably quick really fluid hips can run those type of whip routes that you see slot receivers run. He doesn't have great speed. But he's very good after the catch. And suddenly, you have a guy who played a lot of fullback h back and also in line work in Trevan west co- at that could accomplish the same thing, you could get him may be on day two or maybe even days we. Nice. We'll get more into the into the the the day three, you know, type players as we get along here. But let's go to seventeen where I think it might be more likely that the giants I still think they're going to lean toward quarterback or or adding to their defense here. But if they wanted to add to the receiving core, I think hocken sin, you know, the way I the way I understand it the wit from what I've been told. I don't think Hopkinson is going to be a choice at seventeen I think he's he's probably going to be off the board by then. But I think maybe we start to get into a couple of the bigger bodied wide receivers that might be available guys that you think might be available at seventeen who who would be value guys who could get picked in that range there a lot. Guys, because there's even talk that maybe teams are starting to figure out that maybe we should wait on receipt of us were absolutely sold at the guys like the next Calvin Johnson. Now, I think there are a number guys in this class who are good enough to be franchise caliber receivers. But it doesn't seem like there's a consensus about that. But as a result, if there are if these guys are on the board, I think Akeem Butler would be in a mazing pick for the giants. If he somehow slips that far, and he probably will e six five to twenty seven he runs those whip routes at six five to twenty seven watch him against Iowa last year. And you'll see him beat a cornerback on whip route working inside back to the outside. We has to drop his way flip his hips in succession and beat the man so badly that he had to be tackled. So that the so that he didn't catch the target. Beforehand in basically committed interference. You don't see receivers that big run that unless our name is Calvin Johnson. That's I mean, that's how good of a hot fluid is now. Yes. Emissions which Rops? And so people often say we don't wanna receive who drops the ball. But you have to understand that the way the NFL if you really studying receivers, well, you can text relies what those drops are. And there's three types of drops at our common with receivers. There's the focus drops, which are just basically the equivalent of say, you're teaching your your daughter how to drive and you get to the stop side. And and she's like listening to the radio or telling you, something interns. Doesn't seem go Adam stop sign and she has to stop real quickly. You know, maybe she ran through the stops on over. There is one of those things it's just more of attention to focus. He used the correct ethnic knows what to do. But he's he's to focus on maybe the next task or tasks that, you know. Looking at the defenders coming or trying to talk the ball. That's mostly a key butlers issue. You know, but people off and make it out to be a secret more serious issue. But those series issues are technique driven. You know, not using the hands in the correct of position based on the location of the targeted to me. That's more. Like, you know, if you're using the drive analogy, it's kind of where you you're gonna hit the gas pedal instead of the brake pedal because you you just got distracted as a beginner driver in that can be dangerous, obviously, but you can go back to the parking lot with with student driver in say here, we're going to go five miles an hour until you figure out how they hit the break in the gas. You know at the right moment and not get distracted there. And the most dangerous one is where you you may know, how to hit the brake pedal, but you don't know how much pressure to put on it consistently. And you keep rolling the intersection with gas jar Barron down from the opposite side, and those are people who don't track the football while they just don't understand how really track where it should arrive in where they should reach four guys like Sammie Coates had that issue. Of Troy Williamson that issue. Jake Reed back in the day at that issue not always played their game. And so people sometimes conflict drops with that key Butler is a guy that I think is probably I think the best receiver in this class on. And I think he's the most versatile, and if they wanna be multiple use that versatility. He's the guy miles boykin. No, he's the real. Combine wonder is a guy with slot receiver metrics four point zero seven twenty shuttle six seven seven three cone drill forty three and a half inch vertical? Leap and he's two hundred twenty pounds and six four, and he doesn't have those hands issues at all he tracks the ball extremely well. He's good after the catch he strong. He runs to riff routes breaks back to the ball. Extremely well. So you can rely on him variety of ways. It wasn't talked about a lot. Because didn't have a great quarterback. And people wondered if he was truly that faster. Not. But you can see it on tape matches up as what you see. And then then another guy could be. Multiple is AJ Brown. Who's certainly, you know, more of a slot player. And I don't think the giants will go after him, but he can win the catch point. And you could probably put him at flanker because he's very good after the catch. But I think they need more of a split in than that guy beings. If you're gonna look for split ended this class decay Metcalfe's that guy decay Metcalf. You know, he doesn't have great bend with the way he drops his weight in his routes in and out of his brakes of and I worried that tighter coverage will Biggs Asir bait. That issue where now defensive backs in the SEC all over college are just scared out of their minds about getting beat deep by him. So they'd get a lot of cushion. But the same thing goes with him as I think he's so physical it the way he uses his hands. He so violent with his head that he can create runways just doing that. And and then he gets up to that fourthly speed that he has and he's off to tackle any can win the ball all the catch boring. He has occasional technique issues with. His catching and he also drops passes, but again technique is fixable. Just a matter of understanding when he needs to put his hands up high for certain types of throws as opposed to using a lower hands technique. So he's a little more. He's a little less refined than Butler boykin Brown of. But his physicality at high would use him as a split in. That's all you wanna use them for. It's like going to the hardware store and saying you want a hammer, and you're not gonna get all caught up whether or not the hammer concern into a wrench. He's a hammer. And he's a guy is gonna get downfield. Just have the deep the zones of of defense. So the one name that you mentioned that surprised me a little bit as we were talking about that particular point in the draft was was miles boykin. Do you really think that he would be in the conversation that early in the draft or or is he a guy that that would come a little bit later on? I think he's fog end up in the second round. He shouldn't be. But I'm just looking at highlight, great guys. So to me he's that good. He he should be the conversations while the top three or four receivers in this class of. But most likely he will probably fall to the second round in this in this class will be of quiet thing, we got remember that, you know, past examples, we've talked about players, we think are gonna be first or second guys and in the past. We didn't think Paul Richardson would be a second route guy for the Seahawks. When Dante Pettis would be a second round guy for the forty Niners last year. So I'm kind of open to that because I'm debt at this was my first ranked guy last year on the board just ahead of Ridley DJ more and Don strategy see that petty started. Flash solo skills. Once it got LV. So yeah, I don't know what boy can will be someone that they might account and said we can probably get him maybe in the second round. And if they do that will be quite a bargain. And as you said, you know, at the top when we started to discuss this teams have such a wide variety of of grades in any opinions on wide receivers that you know, that you never know, you know, how some of these guys are going to fall, you know. So the giants have the they have the picket thirty seven, and you know, and you talked about boykin. You mentioned Dawson Knox. I don't. I don't know. If Dawson Knox is a is a tight end who would be in consideration that early just, you know, off of your grades. You know, who might some of the guys that that they could be looking at, you know, at thirty seven be maybe a couple of guys we haven't talked about yet. Certainly as another tight end, Irv Smith is kinda delaying Walker type. I would say if you can feel he's a good blocker. He's not quite as big as Hopkinson, but he holds up very, well, technique wise, and he is I think he's the best receiver after the catch. Even though he's not the quote, unquote, most athletic, but he's the most polished tight end in this class, and you know, comes from great bloodlines from earth. Smith senior who played for the New Orleans Saints in the forty Niners for quite a long career. And he is a good tight end who could be split outside versatile. And could give you that Delaney. Walker type of player, but in addition terms of otherwise receiver talents, the keel, Harry might be there, you know, and a lot of people see him as a big slot receiver. And I think that may be the case, but he's also a guy who you know, can win one on one in the deep game at with his physicality, and he's also a guy that you can move around. So if you're looking for multiplicity in terms of multiple looks in terms of higher seniors could move around at different positions. Harry can also play tennis different roles on team. So he would fit in well in that regard. And I think that those, you know, those two guys probably make the most sense of thirty seven. You might see if team I would say this is doubtful based on how he performed at the combine. But if a team is just really in love with Kelvin Harman's tape, and they feel like we'd love his physicality. We like how can run double moves? We feel like he can be possession. Plus kind of split end for us in Alan Robinson tight, but maybe not quite as faster dynamic Kelvin bet car. Kelvin Harbin is a is a guy who wins really well to catch point. And they may see that another one might be an it may seem like an odd pick. But it's Paris Campbell. And the reason it's gonna see my to everybody on yours could be pretty obviously seeing him as more of a slot receiver. There's a lot of talk in being Streep draft me that he can't get deep or that. He wasn't used a lot as deep player only six to five. But we gotta remember that Paris. Campbell's is a hyper lead athlete of this is a guy with four three speed extreme quickness great explosiveness legs drink, he's an excellent blocker. And he just wasn't used much as receiver one of the flaws Dwayne Askins ad that we talked about the last. Episode is sometimes he missed some of the opportunities to throw the ball deep where he had open receivers in terms of the leverage pre snap. And it was usually centered around Paris Campbell in the slot. But pairs Campbell can't get deep. He actually knows how to make the good Dr step one long step into the hard parade. Which is the hardest thing about route running for the more difficult timing rouse. So he may be inexperienced. But he's not raw. He has a good solid base a fundamental as a pass catcher as a route runner, and he someone very good after the catch. And I could see how you know. Maybe they decide that they they like his athletic ability. They wanna get creative with that. I don't think that's the best. All I don't think it's going to happen. But I'm trying to think of guys in that range. In addition to may be deebo Samuel would also kind of fit in that rage. But he's kinda I think depot Samuel can be a little bit for a Jimmy Smith type of play Jag. Guar receive them or a Sterling Sharpe type of player Rickaby a little more physical than you would expect. But he's extremely quick and fast win after the cash, and he's a guy that I've always joked runs that he can kill you with the single death blow with the shot on or thousand paper cuts running through and beating people the way that Odell Beckham junior. Did you know back, you know, when he was starring in your so Sam could also give you that special teams ability. So those are some guys at Mike fit that range of its allied range of possibilities. And and we'll go from there. Hello. I'm Spencer hall from SP nation. And I wanna tell you about my new show. It seemed smart. It seems mart as show about people doing things that for some reason or another seems smart at the time. Those things might include doing a little cocaine and driving a bike up mountain or I don't know maybe racing a hundred miles per hour across the country in the middle of the night with no one's permission or even stealing a bat from an empire is room in a major league baseball park, check it out. And if you like it Tele friend, I'm Spencer hall, don't do anything smart. Hey listeners. This is Luke Thomas show hosted anime finding if you like mixed martial arts and combat sports. You should check out. Our weekly show 'em a hour. Each Monday, we speak with the top athletes enemy from world. Champions two. Rising stars also bring you in-depth analysis on technique in our Monday morning, endless segment. We talked to some of the brightest minds in the game. We answer your questions regarding the latest news and headlines of the world of professional finding find us on apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. It's interesting because it just seems like, you know, it seems like as I look at this class. If the giants want to upgrade at wide receiver. It just seems like somewhere along the way. There's going to be value because it just seems like there's a there's a a fair amount of depth the fair amount of variety in types of of players, you know, pretty much all the way through this class. Yes. And you know guy who might creep up into that second round because he had a good throw day was JJ Sehgal Whiteside who six to twenty five dollars box out receiver who wins in the red zone. But also shown some pretty good route running skills, I'm a little concerned about his hands. I think that he catches the ball well in terms of catch rate, but like Cortlandt Sutton, the guy was a little concerned about this way too in played out Denver early. I was that. He doesn't have the greatest technique any fights the ball. But I agree with you. I think there are a number of players in his class who in the in the, you know, second late second day early early third or late third who really have an opportunity to evolve in the stars. And and. I'm looking forward to talking about some of them too. All right. So let's let's frame the next part of this a little bit differently and ask you to kind of put your your GM hat on here for a second. When we look at the giants on their current draft board, they go from thirty seven which is early in the second round to ninety five which I think is the last pick of the third round last or second to last pick of the third round. So there's a huge gap in there. But they have eight day three selections in one of the things that I expect is I expect them to whether it's late second early third. Whether it's, you know, fourth round picks, I would expect them to use some of those day three picks to to move up in in target. You know, a guy let's let's suppose that they've they've gone through. They've picked up a bunch of defensive guys that picked up an offensive tackle. Whatever maybe they picked up their quarterback. They haven't touched receiver or tight end yet. And you're sitting there early in the third round. Is there a guy that you can see maybe it's one of the guys that we've already talked about. Maybe it's a guy that that that we haven't mentioned yet say early early third round where you would bang the table and say if we've got to give up a couple of assets. Let's go get this this guy because he can come in and start for us and help our offense right away. Yeah. And I think we'll start with we'll start with guys who might drop, you know, the miles boykin Ricky Butler drop than I would be throwing the table up against the wall. If they weren't listening get fired probably mum. At that point. I also think you know, if the Keitel hairy dropped it would be interesting to consider consider that. But at tight end, I'd probably be bending the table for someone like Dawson knocks Dawson Knox is still there in the early third round. It's time to consider him seriously as that asset. If you believe that an Ingram can be that got or if you know that your draft board has valued below that. Because I think there are receivers in the who are gonna be available the fourth or fifth round who you really going to be able to get get some value out of. But the if there's a receiver. We haven't talked about that if I was really if if I look at his pro day look at what he has to offer. And I'm pretty intrigued by him. I think he has some drops occasionally, but I like one of seen of him, and he's proven an awful lot. I might. Lee personally, I'd probably say would beg the table for here. But I could see how team might and that's Jalen Hurd, Jalen Hurd of Baylor is a former five star running back around the time where he was the starter ahead of compel VIN Kamera and ahead of John Kelly at Tennessee, and he was around the same range that you know, he was he was in playing around the same time that there can was playing six six five two forty kind of sloppy feed the powerful could catch the ball extremely well showed some speed bursts. But he didn't really wanna be running back. You wanna be receiver? Tennessee didn't really want to be receiver. He ended up getting hurt. He ended the siding to move on and transferred to Baylor be receiver. There's a big kind of divorce fallout in the media between this and Tennessee's coaching staff was beyond they been kind of the they've been. Magnet for trouble. During that time. They weren't that. There was a loud bad stuff going on about that whole program. So but heard got the brunt of it like he was the bad guy. But all Endo is at hurt shut up went to Baylor. Put his head down and became a guy that we look at them on your like this guy looks like he's been playing wide receiver since high school and he runs good routes. You can see him do the technically sound things about talked about with you know, guy like MAs boykin, you can get a little bit better with that gathered the steps to hard breaks. But that's the thing that a lot of young receivers after learn of, but he's got the size. You could break bolt tackles the open field. He's a smart runner. He can catch the ball goal up win it. He's used more often Baylor in the slot. But he should transition to becoming a split end in the league. And again, you know, six five with it, you know, with that kind of quickness and good route running showing -bility too nippy late coverage. And final been zones. You could start about the slot and put Ingram outside. And so you kinda slowly feed him into the offense as a contributor in let him win where he he's comfortable and in the year or two he can wind up being that split end for you. And what's even cooler about him is that because he had the work on his foot work so much as a rout runner Baylor. Still use them as a short yardage running bag or occasional running back as a change of pace. Unlike gap plays trap and power toss. And he looked even better at Baylor as a runner, not production wise, but just purely from his footwork in decision making in quickness because he worked so hard on that it actually helped his game as a running back. So you could see this big old guy come in and kind of be a change of pace to saquon Barkley and suddenly you're looking at two five star former five star running backs one of the. Could occasionally use it up again to try to be multiple. You know, not only did you may be tight end. Or maybe yet? But you have that you also have heard who could be a split end for he could be imply put him at wing back because he's big enough. And if you wanted to add weight decide you wanted to make maybe a tight end, I don't think they would do that. I think he's too much potential as outside Seaver. But if they wanted to go that route, and it might be able to do that with him to his member did play to forty at one time, but Tennessee and that was when he was younger player. So this is a really intriguing prospect who I think that there might be a team or two that really likes. You could see how Scots might be on the table. It's really interesting. All right. So now, we have hit the the day three, you know, portion of the draft. And we've already mentioned we've mentioned a lot of names already and have to admit one of the things one of my favorite time wasting sort of activities is to is to go to the draft network or to go to fans speak, and and and you know, mess around with with the mock draft, simulators those two play. That's it's it's to be honest early in the process, you know, I'm not a person who studies guys the way that the way that you do in the way that that a lot of these guys that a lot of guys do to the point where they know everything about everybody, basically. But there's a point in the process where I'm actually using these simulators to to get to know some of the players ESP. 'specially draft network is kind of cool because it lets you pick up the bios on the players as well researched them, but the mice sort of long winded point here is when I do these seven round mock draft simulations for the giants one of the things that makes me crazy as I do these when I get to day three when I get to date to round four to round five even round six. I look at the board that I'm presented with and it's wide receiver wide receiver wed receiver wide receiver. Wed receive rag go down like twenty five names in nineteen or twenty of them are wide receiver. And I'm like, I don't wanna wide receiver right now. I took one already or I want to do that later. But the point being there's a lot of depth on day three. So what I really want you to do is kind of cherry pick a little bit and talk about some of your some of your favorite guys that could go later in the draft. Oh, absolutely. All right. So Jalen Hurd will probably will one of them. We already talked about a guy that that probably could be liked by scouts a guy by the name of Travis full out of Old Dominion, east six to two hundred fifteen pounds. He's a rugged rebounder. With some sudden. At the you know with this first step he's kind of a potential possession plus receiver with some deep nece some deep game to him. But he's will bit more of like a four five eight forty guy. So he's not gonna blow the top off of off of a defense. But he's a little bit more physical in rugged kinda Michael Crabtree. Aspiring type of player who who could be interesting there if they wanna go big slot. And and they think the guys I have on the outside are good. And they feel like they wanna roll that way. Little Jordan Humphry out of Texas. Who's also a former running back six four to ten has some of the best mitts in this class. And there are a lot of good guys in his class in terms of being able to make the catch kinda Marcus Colston type of player who can run, but he can run after the catch away that Colston couldn't you could probably use them out of the backfield occasionally, but he makes excellent adjustments to the football is not very fast. You know, Tyree Brady is an interesting guy or Emmanuel hall. We'll talk about to them that on wrap up the third guy after this. But Tyree Brady isn't very fast. He comes across four seven four. And that I don't know if that's really indicative is speed. I've seen him get through past guys in ways that seems a lot better that he has really must have really good quickness. He didn't we didn't get a chance to see that on in the metrics in terms of his his workouts. But he's very quick off the line runs. Good routes. He hasn't incredible concentration at the catch point make some really difficult catches. But he kind of in that room of like if AJ green was the top model on the board. You know, like he's the luxury model of this type of receiver and say Josh Reynolds of the Los Angeles Rams is kind of like the mid range model, you know, tiring. Brady's kind of like the compact model at the rental car place. But you might be able to eat might be able to upgraded enough that it could do. A lot of work for you. If you're looking for a classic split end. Who's just graceful can become really good deep ball specialist. Maybe expand his game and become something. More Emmanuel hall of Missouri's early graceful guy with four three nine speed kind of in that Justin hunter mode, though. 'cause once he drops the ball. He starts to drop more and drop more any loses concentration. And I think he has to continue to work harder to focus his game. A guide will probably fall day three. Because of an off field situation is pressed in Williams, and we talked about the AJ green model, if AJ greens the all pro model of in terms of ability, Preston Williams could turn out to be the starter model for that. Which is pretty darn good six four to eleven Scott four five speed is as quick enough. He has good enough acceleration. He's terrific after the cat. He wins the ball well near he could play. Flanker split any. He he actually runs good routes, and he's guy Colorado state, who's a former five star prospect of Tennessee saying program where Jalen Hurd, left and Williams has really I think Williams is one of the better prospects in this class. He's in my top ten on my board of but will probably drop because he had a domestic violence issue when or during his Tennessee career, and you know, obviously, the NFL every wanna look at it. If you wanna look at it, the cynical way, I'm more cynical side of things you look at the NFL has more of an optics PR issue about this than they do about really caring about it. If you look, you know, on the level of like, you know, in terms of how that goes now, I look at this way. I think everyone cares about domestic violence in in who has a good head on their shoulders. But at the same time, you know without getting too deep into it. I just say. That some businesses in America, don't, you know, don't have don't have a policy on it at all some some basically suspend people if there's a conviction some people would suspend base some companies with suspend based on a rest, there's a lot of Orion. So we tend to hold these hold the NFL to even higher standards and what our own corporations do. But with that said, you know that sensitivity in terms of the public is sometimes creates a need to drop players just based on the term. And when you look at Preston Williams what he did was wrong. Very clearly let me point that up. But from what I read in the police report, it was basically, he got an argument. He's a young kid got an arguments girlfriend girlfriend wanted to leave the apartment, and he blocked the doorway and tried to hold her from the doorway didn't hit her than pusher. Didn't do any bodily harm to her. Now, I'm not saying that holding someone back from the holding from there will being threatening on that level. Is not wrong. It's definitely wrong. He definitely deserves to be arrested. He definitely deserved to be punished. But it's it's different than say. There's a different degree of that say tyreek hill on strangling his pregnant girlfriend, you know, or Dede Westbrook kicking or strangling his pregnant girlfriend. You know, these are very difficult subject matters. But you know, if you wanna have a more in depth thought about this. I actually talked with a Serapis to works with people who you know, who have been perpetrators in these issues in domestic violence or assault in the past. And and I've had him give his takes on Myers p podcast, you know, about this. And how it relates to the NFL, but Williams has gone through counseling? His teammates said he was a sketchy guy at Colorado state when he arrived. He's become a much different guy since that time. They've seen him grow up a lot. If there's a. Team that want to giants feel like they wanna take a chance on the guy like that. Preston Williams would be that guide that might be worthwhile in the fourth round one. Last guy wanna mention, and I have a feeling that this is the guy to say that I I'm pretty sure from my sources that that the giants are very interested in this guy. And I'll just leave it at that. He is at Monmouth Monmouth, I don't know how to pronounce a month university. And that's that's Reggie White junior. Reggie White junior is about the dimensions of Marvin Jones of the Detroit Lions. He's about six two a little over two hundred pounds. He is extremely quick. He is fast enough. I mean you look at his game. And let me see can pull up his information here because he is he's an excellent young player that okay? He's runs a four four five forty. So he has the deep speed. You're looking for is a four point. Oh, seven twenty shuttle, which is very good. You know, nearly caliber in that in that range six seven seven three cone drill. And that is as good that's actually better than that's as good as miles boykin who was the top guy in that area. So he's quick he accelerates. Well, he's fast enough to get deep on you. And he wins the ball with grace winning the ball and tight coverage. Extremely well. And I've heard scout say that he's the best prospect ever plant, mama, and that's includes miles Austin played there. I think he can be that possession plus player who could either play flanker split in win. Contested catches be a red zone threat. When after the cash they liked to see him be a little bit more physical, and they like to see evidence of step up and be that big play guy. But I think he's going to get drafted late. And I would not be shocked at all the giants are looking at him. Look at you coming on the podcast and breaking some giants news look at that. Away something I sleep for a couple of weeks. So, and I and I can tell you I can't tell you that there's interest there. I I know I can't go into detail who in why? But I know that I know who was there. And I know what they were looking for. And I know that it was a very special case for them to be there. And you're talking about you're talking about like at at a local pro day on. Yes. And so I know that there were people there that that were very interested in him. And that you know, you wouldn't normally see some of those people there, and I'll just say that the, you know, the giants pick him I would not be surprised at all if they can get their hands on. Interesting stuff as always met. We always appreciate you coming on and break in these breaking these prospects down, and you know, now now you've set a new bar 'cause now you're coming on here. Breaking some news. Listen, I don't normally get this stuff. And I don't end when I do I don't know normally share it. But this is one where I can feel comfortable sharing this one just enough that that that's it. But I'm not normally the insider type guy with that. I just breakdown prospects just happen to know this one. All right. Hey, why don't you? You know, we did this last week. But or two go ahead in in, you know, let people know about your website and your draft guide again before I let you go. Sure, you know, you can find my draft guide. Mount Waldman dot com, and you get there's a tour of my draft guide the pre and post draft additions of that that you can look at from the past and the you can find my work at WWW dot Matt Waldman, R S, P dot com that provides links to my YouTube channel, the ours p film room and a lots of different analysis for myself and Mark Scofield as well Scott Bischoff, occasionally, some work from him and. And and then the dish into that. I've a podcast, and I found out my podcast broke the top one fifty in in sports and recreation recently, and that was and that's the ours p cast about while ours p tasks so you can kind of find my work at those three ranges, and you can find me at Twitter at Matt Waldman. All right. Thank you very much meant in. We will you know, when the giants draft Reggie junior. We're gonna have to give you a shout out. And you know, make sure that the world knows that that you had it. I. Okay. All right. Thanks. Thanks again. And we'll talk to you later. All right. All right. Giants fans. That's our show for today. We think met Waldman for spending some time with us and educating us about wide receivers in the two thousand nineteen NFL draft class as always we thank you guys for listening for supporting the show for supporting our work at big blue view dot com. Remind you to please make sure that you subscribe to big blue view radio on all of your favorite podcast applications. If you're not up to date on all of the the content at at biglou view dot com. Please check that out. Please join the community. We've got a stable of fantastic writers on the site. We've been joined most recently by Matt Williamson formerly of ESPN and currently host of the locked on NFL podcast. Also have quarterback guru marks. Go field. 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'Valentine's Views' podcast: Matt Waldman on Giants' WR targets

Big Blue View

1:01:54 hr | 8 months ago

'Valentine's Views' podcast: Matt Waldman on Giants' WR targets

"Podcast listeners. We are amazing avenue. The espy nation New York mets site. I'm Chris McShane and every week Brian Salvator and I discussed the current state of the mets Automated Avenue audio the show. We try to look at the mets from a somewhat logical point of view and not get too deep into panic city. We also answer your emails give weekly music recommendations and try not to get too frustrated with the team. You can find the show on Apple podcasts on stitcher on spotify wherever you get your podcasts. And let's go mets. Hello giants fans and welcome to a new edition of the Valentine's podcast. Today's episode is one that that I look forward to every year. Pre-draft always get a chance to talk to Matt. Waldman of the rookie scouting portfolio and Matt will be joining us today. Here in a minute just a word of advice if you guys haven't Haven't listened to any of MATT'S PODCASTS. At the rookie scouting portfolio or any of the interviews. That that Matt and I have done over the years Buckling because I think we might be here for a little while so So so let's without any any further ado. Let Me Bring Bring Matt in Matt. How you do and how you been. How's everybody everybody's doing good at and You know have everybody staying safe out there all. We're we're trying we're trying we're doing the best we can. Of course safe. You're like me you spend a lot of time working from home anyway. So so things don't So so that part of life doesn't change a whole lot. Yeah Yeah I'm pretty much the same way so you know. People are getting used to working from home. I'm thinking well. It's a typical year. You know typical mark really typical March April for me other than the fact that if you do keep up with the news. It's been extraordinarily atypical. That it has the typical part for me. Is that you know two rooms over in my house. I have my wife now sitting here working from home so So that's a little different but We're all we're all doing what we have to do and the NFL is is rolling along. We've been through most of free agency at this point. They're they're pushing ahead with plans for the NFL draft which will be virtual. It'll be different. There won't be fans but there will still be in. Nfl draft and as usual there still a lot of hysteria in various teams fan bases as they discuss who who their teams should draft. What they should do and we're going to go through a lot of that Here in terms of the giants you know Matt. Your your major area of expertise. What you spend a lot of time on is the the skill positions. And that's what we're going to focus on here today. Mostly wide receiver. But I do have to ask you the giants. Have the fourth overall pick. They're they're not taking a quarterback they're not only. I would doubt very very much that they're taking a wide receiver. The big debate seems to be between Clemson. Do Everything defender Isaiah Simmons and taking an offensive tackle. And and if you're if it's you on that On that conference call you know making net choice. What do you do for the giants at forum? I'm curious because I get I get so many different opinions on this and it's split down the middle what you would do. I can imagine it is you know and and when you look at a guy like. Isaiah Simmons Certainly. He loved the athletic ability that he provides and the fact that he can cover tight ends and some wide receivers up the scene up to twenty twenty five yards with a drop. And you like the fact that he's type of guy that could spy quarterback and run some quarterbacks down as they try to break the pocket and get to the edge You know the real question is what position does he play and and to me. What's important about Isaiah? Simmons is having a really good plan for how you're going to implement him to to maximize strengths minimizes weaknesses. And and also really where you are as a team and when I look at the giants I mean certainly you have. You know you have an up and coming player and we'll Hernandez you know Zeitler and and sold her our solid. If not very good but then you still. You're looking at these guys. Mid To late career most likely in terms of the span of what? You're looking for from an offensive lineman that's kind of a breather at you have gates on at right tackle and you think about what is it that this. What is it that you want to do with this team? And and it seems to me that you have a young quarterback you have a young stud running back and it seems like the emphasis should probably if it were if it were me to emphasize the the offensive line to to really try and solidify this. Make sure there's depth make sure that there's up and coming talent because this offense is a young strength. That's how you got to have it and and I think that you know you need to give Daniel Jones time in the pocket. You know one of his. We've talked about him extensively last year and while the weaknesses that kind of showed up late in the year with him is low. Bit Of tone. Deafness in the pocket Some skill you know in terms of being able to manage pressure or being able to to send pressure quickly enough deuce in the amount of pressure that Daniel John owns deals with would be very strong. It would be very good thing having a bean having a strong an offensive line. That saquon Barkley is used in a manner where he can be working out in the flats or working. The scene or up the sideline as often as possible as a receipt. Really the answer is offensive line. And there are some good offensive lineman in the first round you know ranging from Andrew Tall lose one of the most solid two guys like MCI Becton to Tristan works in you. Know there's about four or five offensive line often. That are very strong in this class and I just think that build on. That should probably be the priority. Because you've already started building there and with quarterbacks you need to keep them clean you know and the cleaner you keep them the better off you are in terms of their development if you start hitting them on a they start getting hit. You know more than they should. That's the position where you can see regression and you can see decision making start to decline And then also difficulties being able to react to pressure amon overreacting to it. And that's something that cannot harm permanently ingrained in certain players. A guy like back in the past. There was a buffalo bills quarterback by the Trent Edwards. Who WAS AT STANFORD. And and he was known for his toughness in the bucket. I mean e- Atta horrific Offensive Line at Stanford to the point that when those USC teams with you know the the Reggie Bush Lyndale White Steve Smith you know Matt Liner ears were. They had a you know they were the Alabama and the Lsu of the NCAA when they were facing that type of team in USC THE STANFORD LINEMEN. There was tape of them. Literally argue with each other during a play and allowing China awards to get sacked. He was a tough guy. Though played through a lot of that but at buffalo you know he started look promising and then they were not able to protect him and once he got concussed by believe it was a hit by Adrian Wilson from the Arizona Cardinals His career pretty much as a starter ended because he came back. And you could tell he just. He re overreacted the pressure on a consistent basis and he could never really be anything more than a journeyman backup. And that's not the type of thing you want to have happened with a guy like Daniel Jones So being able to fortify the edge having depth at the edge and having youth Promising youth at that level will be helpful especially as players get hurt. Because you know I in Athens in the League and when you can provide some level of death along offensive line with talent It can make a difference in your season. I down here in Atlanta. And I'll end up with just saying that. You Know Matt Ryan. They added to offense Lineman for him. you know last year and one of them you know it was the Washington kid who was You know had I believe some sort of heart surgery. That was kind of a follow up procedure and then he was hurt early in the year and he didn't come back till later. And you could see how much that offense that offense struggled early in mid year without a solid offensive line and when they were able to bring him back in he started playing and he played well. You could just see the lift that the entire offense ad because of his presence and I think that's very important it was caleb mcgarry and Chris Lindstrom. Were the two that they added at right guard. Chris Chris Lindstrom a right guard Boston College and Caleb mcgarry on Washington and when those two guys got into the lineup and and you could just see the difference in how that offense played and I think it's I think that applies very well to the giants especially if you know. Mid-year injuries occurred having that that is important as well as growing for the future. Because like we said the the age of those players are at that mid to late career span. Yeah you're pretty much where I met Matt where I think it's there. I call it sort of their bottom line. Responsibility is to to give Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley. Every chance to be the players that they should be or could be I WanNa talk about a WANNA turn the conversation. No at this point to to the other skill positions to more. You know the things that you spend most of your time studying in end that would be you know. We're not gonNA talk about quarterback. Obviously there's no need for us to do that at this point we'll talk about wide receiver mostly. We'll talk a little bit about running back and tight end. You know later in the draft and where I want to start is is right here. I tend to think you everybody. Focus for the giants on the offensive line. They focus on adding defensive. Play mayor makers they they sort of obsess about. How are the giants going to add to the pass rush? They're probably not going to be able to To get chase young in this draft. There they haven't been able to To sign it Avian. Clowney they're not GONNA be able to make a trade for the for the kid from Jacksonville whose name I always butcher. So I'm not even God announces. I'm not even GONNA try. I just I give up because every time I do it I'd I butcher it and somebody on twitter calls me out so I'm just I give up but But one of the underrated needs the way that I look at. It is wide receiver in where I want to start is. Let's actually start with what the giants have I mean? They have the veteran guys tate. They have you know Sterling Shepherd. Who's got the the scary concussion issues from last year? And my you know pick my first question for you is about dairy asleep and I guess my people look at him and they think could he be a number one wide receiver in. Is that if people look at him and say well. He's the he's the number one he's the guy. Is that putting too much of an expectation on Darius Slayton. I think it is at this point but Certainly the physical skills are there for him to become a primary wide receiver in the NFL and while the stats show that promised to believe that he can become that I think that he's going to need another year or two because again it to be a top receiver in the NFL. You really need to be able to to be consistently good against the top quarterbacks in the League against tight man coverage to be able to defeat bracketed coverage to be able to read coverage in a way where you're on the same page with your quarterback And understand the complexities of that. And I think that there's still more to prove with his game. There's more for him to develop so giving you know he may be a guy that can offer you some of those physical skills and some of those plays where you're not going to win the ball being able to beat Beat some top corners on occasion on some deeper routes Especially with the Eight. A play action or double moves or any type of play. That's more of a constraint type of play but I think overall you still need to give him a little bit of time and you're also GonNa need and I think also it doesn't hurt to be able to add another receiver in this very talented class. Who CAN Who can develop alongside where you can do some rotating of positions and you still have golden tate where tate I think. Maybe we still. At the end of his career stills. Bill is still able to offer some possibilities in terms of what he can do. Both inside and outside and you can play the game as an offense where you rotate the receivers to find good match ups for them in a way where you may not have to lean on saying alright. Here's you know you know when you had Odell Beckham you could. You could Kinda just say this is who he's going to be lined up against. It doesn't matter we're still gonNA throw him the ball he'll be open Whereas I think that that the giants don't quite have that right now But maybe in a couple of years a guy like Slayton or if they do draft another another player from this rich class You know within the first two to four rounds. They might find that guy as well. So let's talk about a scenario here. One of the things that Dave gettleman has been known for everybody sort of nashes their teeth and looks at cattleman with the number. Four pick ince's all he really should trade down but but he's never done that. You know in seven drafts is in. Nfl General Manager one of the things though that it gettleman has done consistently in both Carolina and New York in which he did this last year with the Andre Baker. One of the things that he has done consistently is take some of the draft assets that he's able to accumulate target a player or two and be aggressive in moving up to get a player that that he believes in or to try to fill a position that he thinks he really needs to fill and one of the scenarios that that I see as as possible for the giants would be if they're going to trade up. Let's say they get their offensive lineman early if they're going to trade up. I would look at wide receiver. Which as I said I think is a really underrated need with you. Know with the ages of tate with the injury history with with sterling shepherd I could easily see them trading back in a late in the first round to get a wide receiver in a couple of the names that I've heard will start with these two players and then maybe we'll talk about other guys. You would see as possible targets for a move like that. The two names that I keep hearing just in Jefferson of lsu and Denzel mims of Baylor. So why don't we start with with you talking about those two players? Yeah it's funny. Those are two of my favorite players in this class. And I think that they're very good ex- if they were going to The gentleman is going to trade up and try and you know parlay some of those assets for a player of impact. I think those who can deliver impact early on and develop into Really solid strong starters and really be maybe long-term being upgrade to what the giants have. I really think that they they can be an upgrade to what the giants have within two to three years. Maybe even immediately depending on how they're used I think let's start with Justin Jefferson who I really think is probably my favorite receiver in this class. He's a he's just a smart intuitive football player. He's he played a lot on the outside earlier in his career. And you can see the skills to be able to make the hard breaks. You're looking forward to to to run the timing perimeter routes he has various he. He's very skilled on the boundary in terms of being able to stay in in the boundary and be able to make plays at its edge He can take contact. He certainly has an array of skills being able to be press coverage. it may not be the his greatest strength as a player but he is skilled enough that he can win outside Big Hands you know. Vacuums the ball up very well and he's very good after the catch has excellent peripheral vision to be able to you know. Avoid Defenders has great timing in that respect especially in the middle of the field when there's multiple guys coming at you from different angles. So you know obviously you know. Jefferson can be very good perimeter player. But what we saw last year at Lsu was at one of his greatest strengths playing in the slot and Jefferson excels in the slot and for number of reasons. One is that he's very good at the option routes routes where he basically running against a linebacker or safety or nickel corner. Where you get the you get the option to go inside or outside or get a little bit deeper breakback short he on. He has a good feel with his quarterback of how to read the defense and be on the same page. He's a very patient receiver. So he can set up those defenders with the with the footwork that you need to be able to get off the line of scrimmage and be able to bait the defender and and time things in a manner where you're reading the field. He does at work very well. But then in addition to that he's an excellent blocker and that's an underrated aspect of wide receiver. Play especially if you're gonNA play on the inside and there's tape of him being able to handle. Sec caliber athletes at linebacker. Or safety where he can wall them off he punches well. He's ABLE TO SUSTAIN HIS HANDS. Even against larger defenders in the two hundred twenty five to two hundred forty pound range. So you're seeing you know you're not going to ask him to absolutely dominating pancake guys like that but he technically can hold his own and he's tough enough to be able to do the job where you know if a defender is not doesn't have his ears pinned back and he's really you know aggressive on the play early on. Jefferson's the type of player that can get the early advantage. And then keep the defender from being able to you. Know redirect or be able to you know regain his intensity to bail to his advantage. And so you know. Jefferson's very good as a blocker and then most of all because he's so good with the patient aspect of working with the quarterback. He's probably one of the best receivers in this class when the play breaks down and being able to find the open space whether it's in zone or it's one on one. He has a really good knack for efficiently. Making one move to be able to break into the open area and be able to create a nice target for quarterback when the quarterback has to break the pocket or the play goes off script. And so when you add all that together you get a A wonderfully versatile player who can has just enough speed that. If you need them to play split end you probably could get him. Get some work from him there but he can be a flanker easily in an offense especially because of his after the catch skills And then you have a dynamic player from the slot so he would be a guy that even if you know Sterling Shepard's able to be healthy again and and he's playing well. Jefferson can kind of spot play behind Sterling shepherd he can also play out. You know. Play the flanker Um role. He someone who to me reminds me of a combination of of traits that you would see from Keenan Allen and from DJ charge of Jacksonville. Jaguars where you've got that fields trees. He's a faster version of Keenan Allen In terms of an athlete He may not be as quick as Alan. But he's got that savviness about his game in terms of the technique the footwork understanding how to be patient. And so he's a terrific. He's a terrific player and he's one of my top five receivers than this very wise. Get a guy like him. Now Denzel mims is is an is an absolutely fun player. He's my number two receiver in class And I've had them pretty much that high for months so it's interesting that he's starting to get that kind of Pre draft affection that you're seeing from a lot of from a lot of analysts out there The Baylor product use six. Two two zero seven. He had an absolutely stellar combine in terms of the in terms of the metrics that he showed. But what's really impressive about him? You know the athletic parts of the icing on the cake. He's as great short area quickness strong acceleration and then terrific long speed but he developed throughout his career. You could literally. I have a video that I showed on my youtube channel. Mount Waldman's ours. Film room that I probably spend. I think I it's plenty of thirty forty minute. Long video where I show his development over three years and you start to see his development. As a row runner specially with press coverage Es Es a skilled press coverage receiver for the college game. He someone that understands That he's had to develop different types of foot work different types of hand usage how to combine them in different ways And then also learning how to read the defender and setup defenders as the game goes along and as a that's an a craft wide receiver play that often takes a couple of years and some receivers never really get it. That's why you get some guys who were really athletic. But they're kind a. They're kind of like a hammer in the offense they're just like a a a single dimensional tool because they can't release against different types of coverages That you need them to and you have to kind of scheme them to get open Mims is the type of guy that I think can develop into a primary player because of the fact that you can see him setting up defenders whether it's off man coverage or whether it's tight man coverage he shows a skill to be physical he shows skills to be able to avoid the first man he can work inside he has the he has the physicality to win coverage. You know win. Plays where it's tightly covered or to take kits and come down with the ball. He probably makes he an CD. Lan probably make some of the most impressive catches on targets. That are away from their frame that I've seen from anybody this year and and really they rank well enough in that area. That may be any year there. You know they're they would be on a list of maybe my top ten the top fifteen So you know guys who've made just impressive catches whether it's low and away whether it's having to catch the catch the ball as well as wrap your arms around the defenders harm while he's got it reached into your body while you're you know kind of leaning low away High point catches being widowed. One Hand the ball where your ear momentum is heading one direction you have to turn your arm in the opposite direction of that momentum very skilled in that regard so highly gives you what Beckham used to be able to provide where you can take a target. That's catchable but not necessarily pinpoint accurate and kind of erase that lack of pinpoint accuracy with your athletic skill. Mims has that Jefferson can do a lot of that but it's not at the level of what mims provides So you know I would say that mims is also pretty good player after the catch Certainly he's A. He's a slightly better athlete than than Jefferson in the open field But maybe not quite as a aware and not quite as versatile. But if you're looking for a guide to be your split and your flanker he can probably do either of those rolled pretty well and you can interchange him in Slayton And then you can keep a guy like golden tate on the inside and have him in Sterling Shepard kind of rotate. Well as you know and you can kind of rotate. All of these guys in men's is really shown that he's at the he's ready to perform at his level of potential in his level. Potential is a you know a borderline proble type of wide receiver. I'd say both E. N. And Jefferson have that ceiling to their game But I think both can right away. I think both can be productive And can deliver what you probably got. Outta slate and last year. I think they can probably deliver that. But on a more consistent basis where you're not getting the absolute highs and and then the the you know the the valid lays that may be slate in God but again that also depends on quarterback play you know and and the health of the offensive line and the and the functionality. The offense but if all those things come together both those players are capable of consistent production. All Right Matt so yawned beyond that round one scenario. Obviously you were looking at maybe day. Two Middle Round selections and we know there's there's a lot of A lot of depth in this class. You've talked about that at all you know. Every analyst talks about how how many quality players there are in this draft. Give me just give me some of your favorite guys who you think should be available second day. Maybe you know maybe even fourth fifth round in this draft a handful of your favorite guys you think you can have long-term productive. Nfl careers sure You know we're GONNA go with probably one of the best but also one of the riskiest and that would probably be a guy you'd find an early early mid to that's viscous inau Colorado the six foot two hundred twenty seven pound receiver. Who played a lot of on the wing as well as more in the Backfield for Colorado? But this is a guy with terrific. Upside You know if you look at his combine numbers. You only see that he had like they only did the bench press in the forty. Well he was. He ran the forty at four five eight. Which doesn't sound all that impressive until you realize it. He did it with a sports hernia and got surgery afterwards. He wanted to run the combine before he got surgery So and and that's the big issue with him. As is he gonNA be able to stay healthy at a rotator cuff injury? He had this sports oriented injuries at. He's at a few injuries during his career and people wonder if this is a guy who can stay healthy and I would say the answer is as long as they're not going to try and turn him into You Know Saquon Barclays backup. I don't think you're going to have an issue He's an underrated route runner. Stephen Mantegazza quarterback for Colorado is not really a great NFL prospect. And was not a you know. He was a solid college quarterback but solid to me is he can make one read and if the pressure wasn't on him he was. He didn't self destruct but some pressure pressure made himself destruct to a point where should not really didn't get the full range of his expression in terms of what his skills can do But terrific after the catch Type of player. Who you can use in certain gadgets situations kind of the way that you could use Golden Tate. But I think that he could. He's a type guy that can overpower defensive backs but also run pass amis a lot faster than his time showed. Brian Edwards is an interesting guy because he might drop to the third round You know there are people that have concerns about his hands. I watched him enough last year that I feel like I didn't really see the hands issues last year The year before they certainly showed up a little bit more. But he's a six to twelve The you know. The highs of his game is that he can make some of those same plays that a guy like Denzel mims does. He's very physical after the catch. He's tough to be able to to really jostle around or reroute So as a very experienced receiver who has you know who led South Carolina in terms of their production? He's their most productive receiver in Carolina in South Carolina. History Khanna reminds me of a Javon Walker type of player in terms of the type of style that he plays with You know another guy that could fall and be very nice. And very nice players t higgins You know he's physical. He's a more linear guy. Where you know you're GONNA ask him. You're not going to be asking him to run. A lot of routes that have hard breaks back to the quarterback on. You know you know you know in in the intermediate and short game. But he's a he's a guy that you can do a lot of good work with on crossers slants over routes in the middle of the field seen routes in addition to you know some of the double moves and fade routes on the outside Very combative player Con- you know the guy that he reminds me of is he plays bigger than size and he's and he's any handles at physical play. Well Guy reminds me of his Hakeem Knicks in terms of what Nick's provided the giants You know at the peak of his career. I think T- Higgins. Has that kind of plain style to them. And then you know mid to later rounds. I mean you know certainly Van. Jefferson gets a lot of gets a lot of love. He's Sean Jefferson's son. The former chargers and lions and patriots wide receiver. Who's now in? Nfl Wide Receiver Coach Band. Jefferson has excellent route running. He has some work to do with his hands You know he the way. He positions his hands towards certain levels of targets They're not uniform to where the target is Arrive in any fights the ball a little bit But his route running might be the best in this group So you know you could get a a terrific slot receiver and reliable player in the middle of the field who can develop into that and maybe give you what. The giants got a little bit or the Patriots. Got a little bit out of Julian Edelman. You might be able to get a player. Was some of that skill as a route runner. Not so much after the catch. But if you're going to talk about you know mid to late round guys. Quintas safest is a guy out of Wisconsin six feet two hundred and two pounds and he ran a four seven three forty at the combine but then later ran a a a four five six Forty at his pro day and that's closer to the truth with him a much closer to the truth to be honest and you look at his his twenty shuttle and his and his vertical leap. And you can see. That's the case. This guy I think is the steelers. The class He is extremely physical. Uses hands unbelievably well. At the top of his stems into the break routinely gets separation. He can wins up. He tracks the ball as well as anybody in this class. Whether it's over his head whether it's turning from one shoulder to the other shoulder Than having to make that transition while you're running away from the quarterback thirty forty fifty yards outfield and he's terrific at the catch point. I'm an e can take heart contact. He can win the ball against tight coverage where You know the way that he tracks it or is able to maintain focus even after maybe he takes contact and the ball's not where it needs to be any has to tip it to himself very good in that area. He strong enough that I mean this is a guy who lifted you know. Did Twenty three reps on the bench press as a two hundred and two pound wide receiver That's the most. I think any receiver did in this class. And it's more than most running backs do and this is a guy that I've seen him against Oregon where he absolutely manhandled the corner bags and they have some of the best. Cornerback prospects Who are underclassmen In the NCAA and be able to bounce off outside hits from outside linebackers in the open field where he just shrugged them off I'm real excited about his play. And Jeff Okuda the the cornerback for Ohio State. One of the top quarterback prospects in his class. They asked him and I don't remember the name of the other Ohio State quarterback but they ask those guys separately in different times of the at different points of the combine. Who was the best wide receiver prospect that they faced In their career and jet both of them said Hands Down Quintas Sivas and they face some pretty good players that Ohio state Including you know the likes of players like it. Some of those Clemson wide receivers. Who you know like T- Higgins like Justin Ross sewer who are very good and they said Sivas you know easily so a guy like that could be a very strong play if you're going to take a bet on upside athletic upside Donovan People's Jones and other guy who is an excellent returner He certainly can win the ball in the air. Very well As terrific vision in the open field Could play the slot or flanker. He can definitely add a boost to your return game. I'm is just a matter of whether or not. He's a product of plane with subpar quarterback. Play at Michigan. An offense that really hasn't produced You know strong passing statistics since Jim Harbaugh arrived on because that's not really his game In terms of what they liked to do on offense but he might be able to outgrow that. And then you know some guys that you know and then I just a couple of quick hits a guy like He you know who would be another one For a speedster you can look a guy like quiz Watkins. Who's four four five? Three speed out of southern miss can win above the rim a little bit but kind of limited as an all around player Isaiah Hodgkin's is a a big slot? Guy was slick routes. You could play a little flanker and very good in the red zone And I think that he just needs to get a little bit stronger on lock what he does best in terms of his route running. A Gabriel Davis Interesting player out of UCF OOOO who has the speed and the short area change of direction quickness but not great acceleration. So if you can get him up to speed and continue to have him running where you know over routes post route skinny posts deep crossers. He's really skilled on that at that level. Or routes where he can make one solid break you know on the perimeter. So He's a guy that can get deep for you. Who can win the ball in that respect? But YOU'RE NOT GONNA have run double moves you're not gonNA have them run You know some of the entire tree but if you can get him or you're not gonNA get the greatest production out of him running comebacks or hitches or hooks but you can get or curl routes but he'll get what he needs to on those routes but if you ask him to run after the catch getting him to break across the middle of the field it could be very strong that respect so those are some of the guys. There's so many that we could talk about but those guys are Kinda stand out to me in the second day through the later rounds all right matt. Hey thank you for that rundown. Let me yet. Let's do this. Let's take a short break year for a word from our sponsors it espy nation. When we come back on the other side of the break a WanNa talk a little bit about Late round or middle round a running backs and tight ends. That's kind of a lower priority for the giants but You know an area where maybe in the later part of the draft the they might look to to supplement what they have so. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back and do that are a giants fans at Valentine back here on. Valentine's views podcast and we are talking with Matt Waldman of the Rookie Scouting portfolio as we go through some of the Some of the wide receiver running back tight end options for the giants in the upcoming draft. And we spend our time you know in the first part of the show talking about wide receiver running back and tight end is is a lower priority for the giants you know quite obviously but still an area where where they could supplement what they have with you know with a middle to To later round choice in the draft met. Let's talk about running back first and looking at what the giants have obviously with with the stud back in Saquon Barkley. Who's going to take you know? The majority of the carries no matter who else he's playing with. The giants added veteran. Free Agent Dion Lewis. Who gives them some some pass receiving some ability to pass block? He has some running ability. But he's not a guy you're gonNA WANNA pound up the middle. He's not a guy. I don't think that you're going to want to To carry the ball a lot I think wing Goldman is probably you? Don't he very well could be a guy that doesn't even make the roster depending on who else the giants add at that position but when I look at what Barclay does in what Lewis brings to the table. I keep thinking that they're space on this giants roster for a Banger for a bigger back for a physical guy who could maybe take. Some of those carries between the tackles who could be short yardage guy may be and just take some of that workload off of off of saquon. The thing that drove me insane. Last you're watching Pat Shurmur. Offense was how many times the giants just handed the ball to Saquon Barkley and asked him to go straight up the middle so obviously they have a new offense this year. But I'm curious about some of the guys that you think could handle that sort of inside physical short yardage role. Yeah and no go ahead. Yeah and there are and there are a number of them. I mean this is a pretty rich class in terms of the talent. That's at this running back position there's depths to it and so guys who can probably get on the third day Early third day ranging to draft free agents will kind of go from there One of the one of my favorite early third day picks is Joshua Kelly Outta Ucla's five ten to twelve. Looks like he can add even a little bit more weight to his game. And he's a twitchy downhill runner with good vision Strong hands and he's a guy that's really been under the radar He's someone that I honestly think could be a starter in this league and be a very good starter. But because of the fact that he's he's had you know he he played he transferred last year to Ucla and started last year and started this year. Stillie there hasn't been a great team and so he's underrated and when you look at his game I mean he has long speed stretch the field. He has excellent short area acceleration in quickness. Um but he reads different types of schemes. Very well so he scheme versatile he can work between the tackles without a problem and again like I said he can get stronger Another one who if you want if you're looking for production right away but maybe the upside isn't great for him like with a good offensive line. He can be a very productive starter. I'm so something happened the Barclay. I think this guy. Could you know step right in and play? Well he might not be a superstar. But it's a guy by the name of Keyshawn van Vanderbilt Another underrated smart back. Who works well? Between the tackles has good contact balance Has the speed to be able to you. Know get into that open field. And maybe he's not gonNA blow people away from crazy angles like Saquon Barkley can but if you get him you know downhill and into the secondary. He's GonNa gain a lot of yardage and he's a guy who can catch the ball reasonably well He provides some upside as a pass protector. He's going to develop along those lines I think that he's the type of bag. You can have a long career as one who can start if you need him to and deliver that production But if if you're on a team where he's the starter he might also be the guy that's Kinda looking over his shoulder every year to see whether or not the team is going to draft a bigger name Guy But he's just good enough that he might be able to hold a lot of those players off. Rico Dowdell is an interesting player out of South Carolina. Because he's you know he's kind of a Kareem Hunt Kenneth Dick's tied the player type of player. Who can do a little bit of everything can run outside? He has that. Short area quickness and movement to make multiple defenders miss and create yards on his own He's he's just a very slick mover in terms of how he plays. Which also you know you think of guys like Barkley Levian Bell. In that respect he can really set up defenders in space He's a good receiver He has he. The route running. Needs some work but when you send him on you know on some of the the the seem routes or wheel routes or Bulla routes as well as the you know the the normal check down routes he can handle all that right now and he's very strong hands on and can win. Contested situations This year with him has been injury And he's had a number of you know he's had a broken leg he's had Sports Hernia he's heads A minor knee sprain. But he's had a number of issues that is kind of held him back. And the Carolina South Carolina Staff. Really thought that he was capable of elevating his game beyond the level that he already showed and I think that's true from what I've seen on film. It's just that he hasn't been consistent and I think this team didn't feel like maybe he worked at his game as much as he needed to. Because when you're calling out player in the median sane he could take it to another level if he really applies himself oftentimes. That's an indication that they don't feel like the player is doing the the work he's capable of. They feel like he's an underachiever. But you know there. There have been guys come into the League who've figured that out and have applied themselves well and Donald is one of those could be really good another guy that could be. Maybe had early day three. It'll be interesting to see how far teams reach. Form IS ANTONIO GIBSON OUT OF MEMPHIS. He's a six to two hundred and twenty one pound Blair with four three nine speed in the forty who had three hundred forty combined yards against. Smu And he played wide receiver renting back and and was a return specialist and he was a good enough wide receiver. That you know. He's a guy that could develop in that regard he runs. You know some heartbreaks pretty well works in the middle of the field can win the ball away from his frame well but I think he's better after really looking at his game a little bit more. He's better as a running back. I mean he's got the size the contact balance though the versatility he just has to develop a little bit more skill with different types of run blocking schemes and that may take him a little bit of time on but the upside is there for him then to let two guys who. I think could serve as Bangers one right away Michael Warren out of Cincinnati. He's kind of a C. J. Anderson type The nod extremely fast but quick-footed really really tough between the tackles and terms of being able to have strong contact balance pushed the pile fine those creases and be creative in know within the tight confines of the box and he's also an excellent receiver. He's a guy that Cincinnati often used in the slot in pivotal down this and distance situations and had him run option routes because they felt like he was their best chance in certain short yardage late game situations. And he's tough. He's type A guy that can get nicked up in a game come back in and produce at a high level. I think he's probably going to be available as an undrafted free agent But I think he's a god kind of like former undrafted free agency J. Anderson can deliver for you especially behind good line in the last guy. I'll mention is probably the other than Joshua. Kelly who I mentioned is just second to him in terms of the overall talent that I've assessed of the group of guys that we just covered and that's a former South Carolina back who wound up at Byu. This year's names. Thais on Williams is a former four-star recruit out of North Carolina who transferred to South Carolina and South Carolina was kind of messed with their running back hair cell so he played. I think two years there and then transferred to Byu and he had a stretch before games at Byu. This year. That really I think if he were able to stay healthy and continue through he would have been a guy that would have gotten drafted and maybe even drafted you know early third day. He's a six foot two hundred and twenty pound banger. Who you know as quick fluid catches the ball well but he tore his ACL. You know week four He kinda reminds me physically. I don't know if you remember this guy in he's kind of infamous in the NFL because he failed a drug test in the US Day. A product known as the original was called. The original whiz. Innovator I'm Ontario Smith In Ontario Smith was a really dynamic back with a good low center of gravity out of Oregon who played for the Minnesota Vikings and looked like he was going to be a stud before he he essentially tested himself out of the League. Williams is a guy who has at Plays with a low center of gravity. Plays with a lot of power has enough speed to get into the open field Wins the ball as a receiver and just a smart runner who I think finally got a chance to play for a team that that I think clearly saw what his skills were about. I mean and I say that about South Carolina not really knowing because there were lots of talk about the reason he got benched after taking over for an injured doddle was because of a fumble that he had and then he needed to hold onto the ball better. He only had two fumbles during his career and only one of them came when he was with. South Carolina so and Carolina China has a reputation among scouts at least in the past of not necessarily getting the most out of its players and kind of being a program underachieved and how it developed guys And some of that can also be where you interchange guys to the point. Where you're you're not really assessing what they can do well and putting them in the positions to succeed and I think Williams guy that if the team can feel like they can be patient for a year Or they feel like his had that you know. He's going to be nine months removed from the ACL injury in July. And they feel like that he his progression is good enough in terms of his rehab. That he can compete this summer and I think he will be if if all signs are good. Then they got themselves You know potential steel as an undrafted free agent all right Matt so the other position I think we need to talk about his tight end now. The giants obviously have Evan Ingram and again as always there are. There are injury concerns with with. Ingram durability concerns the giants have Have spent part of the off. Season collecting tight ends veteran. Guy Like Levine. To eye to eye. Lolo on that brought back Eric Tomlinson. They saw red ellison retire. They have Cayden Smith. They have a couple of other young tight ends on the roster. They have a lot of guys but what I don't see at the tight end position especially with you know with the questions about Ingram's durability what I don't see it the tight end position or a lot of long term answers so again. It's another position. I don't expect the giants to Go and draft a tight end. You know in in the second round even in the third round. I think they just have other priorities other things that they have to do so again. We're talking about data three tight ends. GimMe Gimme a few guys. You think could be could develop into starting caliber. Tight ends day three range. You know guys who who could maybe be part of the long term solution for the giants at that spot. Sure you know and and one guy. We didn't talk about wide receiver. Who could wind up being tight end kind of in that Evan? Ingram mold would be notre. Dame's Chase Klay Pool. So if they decide they want to draft a receiver but they feel like he can provide them. Maybe that Evan Ingram Jared Cook type of play clay pools a guy that we probably should have mentioned earlier but for day. Three guys the one that really sticks out the most is. Ucla'S DEVON OSCEOLA Z. Who is a six three two hundred fifty seven pound Tied in who really came off one strong year because he was toiling behind. Caleb Wilson who was you know statistically very strong college tight end but really more of a move a move tied and kind of more of just a big slow wide receiver. Who's who who's going to have trouble probably making the NFL roster but had a lot of reporter. With the likes of Josh Rosen and there is no and all the way up until last year when he you know. He was kind of their raining guys so they weren't GonNa Bench him for. Maybe a guy like Ozzy Ozzy who's a more promising. Nfl fell prospect but you know was still working his way arrived later at UCLA. So you know. Wilson had seniority in that. Respect but Ozzy Ozzy is you know. Ease a decent blocker. Econo- reminds me of a mix of guys like Randy McMichael who used to play with the dolphins on a Georgia and algae crumpled former Falcons player. Who was a good run? Blocker could really do nice work after the catch in the short and intermediate ranges field and Osceola has that skill. He's a type of guy that has good quickness. Good footwork works. The middle of the field. Wells receiver has the suddenness to be able to make those quick breaks. You need against linebackers. So I'm a big fan of what I think. He could become an probably. He's the best option of those day. Three guys bryson Hopkins is an interesting player. He's six five to forty five. Probably can add a little bit. More Weight is dad. Was Brad Hopkins. The former left tackle for the Tennessee. Titans when they had Steve McNair and that Super Bowl team He's a better block than you would expect he. He has some work to do to bulk up and be able to win the physical matchups but technically yes. I'm pretty Nice. Skills in terms of using the one arm technique being able to slide and and stay square with players but he's best fit as an h back. Who can really lead block in the run game and you can use a little bit more as an h back lead lead blocker also an edge blocker and he has terrific short area acceleration So type of guy that you can kind of leak the ball out too. And he can get yards after the catch You know two other guys that I'll give you a few other guys here. That could be interesting. Thad boss Randy mosses son out of. Lsu He's not a fast guy he's extremely sure handed And he runs good routes. He's the type of guy that you he could win in the short intermediate range when you throw targets up to let him win But he's mostly going to function for you as a blocker and his a short area receiver. They have a lot of those guys already. But he's kind of a Dennis Pitta Heath Miller type of player who can give you some dynamic skill in the red zone But also be a fantastic blocker on. I think he's less likely to be on that radar But guys who might be able to grow into more Jose that Guevara out of Cincinnati Former wide receiver pecan add. Maybe another ten to fifteen pounds. He can work. At the line of scrimmage and not just be an age back but also wind down field. You're Delaney Walker type of player at least aspiring in that area. And then you know jared Pinkney Auto Vanderbilt many concerned him to be atop Titan class but he kinda showed you kind of regressed last year. Production wise so a lot of people are going to be on that but he's also a slower player but he's kind of a you know you think of Zack. Miller as an example of a player that that he that he could be a productive guy in the slower range but still very good blocker enough short area quickness to be able to stretch the seem And then maybe the last guy who might have the most upside and if you're going to take a chance on a guy late in the draft. This might be the guy to do that. And that's Cheyenne O'Grady out of Arkansas. He's he's a hard running. Tied will excellent hands toughness in the face of contact But he's been suspended twice by his team. is former teammate. Forty niners linebacker. Drake Greenlaw actually called him out for. Skipping practices went to high school together and call him out for skipping practice and skipping class And they basically team after suspending him twice essentially quote unquote greed. A mutually to part company at the end of the season So he didn't even really finish at his time at the program but when you watch his game. He has worked at develop as a route runner in blocker. But the physical skills are there and he's type of guy that if he can mature and a lot of guys. You know Nina Little Time. More time to mature at this age If he can be one of those guys to turn the corner and mature and they feel solid about him he could be that guy that that goes from late round pick to emerge into a really productive. Nfl Starter all right Matt. Thank you very very much. For for all of that information lots of players to consider at At all of those positions will be interested to find out what the giants do here in a couple of weeks met before I let you go and before we close up shop wanted to tell folks where they can find you on twitter where they can follow your work. What you got coming up all that good stuff. Sure you know you can follow me at Mount Waldman. Rsvp DOT COM. That's my sight. You also can follow my Youtube Channel Matt Waldman's as P film room for anywhere between you know five minute long videos on player prospects to our long videos Twitter my handle is Matt. Waldman WWL D. A. N. And of course there's the Matt Waldman Czars P cast with you know we share mark. Scofield you know and Mark Mark. Certainly he comes on every other week. I do a scout A scout talk podcast with Russ Landi. Who is a former? Nfl SCOUT WITH A couple of different teams and working with the You know working in Calgary in Calgary with the stampede irs as a scout right now in the CFL and we talk about scouting matters You know go in depth on that and you. Can you know if you're interested in the rookie prospects at the skill positions? You know I offer what is arguably the most in-depth comprehensive guide that came out on April first on the rookie scouting portfolio publication. You can download it You can find the information and I'm videos that give you Tours of rookie scouting portfolio at Mount Waldman ours P dot com and that comes with a pre draft addition post draft edition after the draft. A week after that and then Then I a newsletter from June through December once a month that keeps you updated about those players as well as the past. Three classes of rookies And The upcoming class for twenty twenty one so You know it's well worth it's it's well worth the bang for the buck in terms of people You know the people who've gotten it. That's what their Their thoughts have been for the past fifteen years now. So it's what I do. Full time and You know hopefully give it a look all. It's all definitely great. Information definitely worth the time and the money Matt. Thank you very very much. Maybe After the draft will will get back together. We'll talk about the players that the giants did draft sounds great. Ed All right Matt. Thank you giants fans as always. Thank you for listening. Stay safe out there and we'll talk to you soon. Bye Bye hi. I'm Brian and I'm one of the hosts of the Amazing Avenue Network of podcasts. Each weekday we bring you a different podcast. The covers the New York mets from a different perspective every Monday. You Hear Me Steve. Along with Kenan Lucas on from complex SOCLEAN's will discuss the mets minor league system. Every Tuesday an unforgettable. Join me rebel. They look back on the career of a less. Heralded Mick Hi. I'm Alison and with Maggie and Linda. I host a pot of their own each week. We look at all things. Mets and social justice issues in baseball. I'm Chris and you can catch Brian me chatting about the current state of the mets on Amazing Avenue audio the show every Thursday and then. Friday's we have Amazing Avenue in conversation where I talked with interesting people about the New York mets. So check out the amazing avenue. Family of PODCASTS. You can get us on apple podcasts. Spotify stitcher or your pod catcher of choice and as always. Let's go mets.

giants NFL Matt Justin Jefferson League Denzel mims lsu South Carolina Saquon Barkley golden tate Guy Like Levine Daniel Jones Mount Waldman Isaiah Simmons mets Jacksonville Evan Ingram Ucla Darius Slayton
And the New Host is....

Fantasy Feast: 'Eatin

39:55 min | 1 year ago

And the New Host is....

"Prepare to win this season with p._f. Fantasy p._f. F- offers the most in-depth stats and analysis to give give you a massive edge over your competition use their data driven projections and matchup tools to find breakout players ears sit back and follow jeff ratcliffe expert rankings all season long use p._f. Analytics to optimize every draft pick trade offer and d._f._s. Lineup sign up but p._f. Dot com and use promo code p._f. Twenty-five live to save twenty five percent on your order join p._f. Elite to access the green line game picks as well go to the f. f. dot com and use promo code p. f. twenty-five to save twenty five percent for a limited time. It's time to eight in bella. Sit down and get ready to consume an abundance of fantasy football football knowledge from russ tucker and evans silva me so hungry on the fantasy th east podcast yeah. Let's eat baby. It is is the fantasy feast eating podcast and if you're looking for a place to make your online wagers head over to bed online dot a._g. Use the promo code podcast. God cast one to receive a fifty percent sign up bonus today bet online dot a._g. Your online sports sports book experts. This is going to be a unique fantasy feast because we're going to say goodbye i to evan after however many years at evan silva on twitter he is going to be exclusive at established published. The run dot com will always be obviously a friend of the show welcome on the show as a guest and we're gonna pass the baton john and very very excited about the new co host as i teased on twitter if you want to know who it is look at the top of pretty pretty much any fantasy analysts rankings that are out there the sites that do objective active fantasy analysts rankings. This guy is at the top like all away at the top to that momentarily. I i gotta tell you you who the last entry is in the fantasy feast redraft league after i make sure you guys are all aware of sports. I love sports wars. It tells the stories of some of the greatest sports rivalries of all time it's the show show from wondering they get into brett farr versus aaron rodgers raphael and the dow versus roger federer shack versus koby will be the new season of sports wars is all about to college football rivalries college football seasons here. We talked about it with the new co host of the college draft podcast matt waldman they focus on oklahoma texas and georgia florida trust asked me even if you didn't go to one of these schools the history of these rivalries so intense you will not want to miss these stories stay tuned because at the end of this episode episode you're going to be able to hear a clip from sports wars and get a little bit a little sample. Get a little something something speaking of something something not only did keith cleveland do the five star apple podcasts ratings for fantasy feast and other podcast. He also sent me a little something something which i very much appreciate keith so the final fantasy feast entry keith cleveland the last one end. I will be giving away and n._f._l. Game game pass code free subscription n._f._l. Game pass. I will be giving net away on tomorrow's episode so make sure you find my tweet or brian's tweet and you re tweet that because you're gonna wanna try to get that that it free code why not right. I mean you might as well. It's free what's what's better than that. Speaking of free yahoo has officially released their week one daily fantasy football contests and there's no management fee so they have a million billion dollar contests for week one with no management fee and one hundred k. goes to first place meaning. More money goes back to you. The players ten entry max can be planning. It's people with one hundred and fifty lineups like other places. Yahu also has one hundred k. guaranteed contest so there's lots of prize out there for week one. If you're just getting started with daily fantasy football joined the free to enter yahoo cup and and play all season long hundred fifty k. and weekly season-long prizes and if you get a perfect lineup you win a million dollars get started now at yahoo dot com slash daily fantasy well evan <hes> <hes> i'd be lying if i didn't say mixed emotions right now i very much appreciate you coming on for a sendoff off and a passing of the torch passing of the baton in about five minutes maybe ten we will reveal who the next host will be you and talk about him before we even bring them on and then we will have him join us. I gotta tell you though and i want to say of this on the show for everybody year. It can't thank you enough man for everything over the years. I don't even know how long we've been doing the show but it's it's been a while. You have been excellent so well prepared so good and obviously i don't really think many people turned onto under the fancy feast to hear my voice they turned on the fancy feast because of you and the insight that you have provided and i strongly encourage people bull to check out everything that you've got going over at established the run dot com thanks man and <hes> you know the feeling is mutual. I remember when you first gain opportunity to just you know just do something to get up at six in the morning on sirius x._m. Radio august <hes> greg cosell his spotted come open and you gave me a shot and awful you know but i was like just trying to find my find my voting and <hes> that was an incredible opportunity. You didn't give up on me after that and you know we started to <hes> you kind of embrace the fantasy thing you know and we would have arguments in the beginning like i know you gotta wait on quarterback like no no to concur search around you know and then we kinda you kinda learn you know over the years i mean i think they walk away from this thing like you became. I'm a pretty good fantasy player. You know <hes> by the end of all this and <hes> it was fun. You know all all the back and forth banter all all the you know like i'm i'm talking about something and then you know you liked perfect like contexts having played the game having been able to apply <hes> your experiences with the offensive line which we agree and try to drill into people's heads that it is like an underrated and overlooked aspect of fantasy analysis no uncovers it enough and you know certainly our offensive line tears and just being in just me being able to ask you questions about offensive line stuff. <hes> has really added a different element to our <hes> our analysis and we you know we started with like five years ago and we really built a pretty darn good podcastone. We stuck with it. I think i only missed like three or four shows like over the over the five years you of course never missed a show but and we did it every single week even even during the off season we are like mad. You know there are a couple of times and is there anything that's aqaba right now and we pretty much would always come up with something so i'm i'm proud of what we built and <hes> you know i. I know that the fantasy feast is gonna live on with a really talented do do you remember like how we i ever even came into contact with each other like i don't remember. I don't remember or what happened that i even reached out to you. <hes> i know you were writing for pro football talk and you were writing for rural but i don't know how i got your number to even. Have you come on the show at all. I'm fairly certain that you reached out to me. <hes> i i definitely would <hes> would read you are. I'm sorry i would listen to your podcast with m._d. Like religiously that that was e._s._p._n. Was like something mccall that the focus or something called football today football football today. That was one of my favorite i mean this is like really went podcast. We're starting to kind of take off. I mean this was what like shoot two thousand ten maybe two thousand eleven and <hes> or at least this is when i started to really listen to as many podcasts as i could and i started understand the value of podcast and i would try to listen to podcasts while i was like writing my articles and <hes> u._n._m. Dub i always thought thought were awesome. So it's possible i my guess. Is that like i would like tweet. I maybe tweeted that out a little bit and then you kind of notice this that and then <hes> you started following me what you were always super conservative with your follows you know i think you are even still to to this this day <hes> so that was huge and then yes some somehow you you reach out to me yes i. It might have been just via email. You got my email or something but that that was that was definitely the the first step that led to that little serious opportunity and then of course did a fantasy like joining forces for the fantasy feast couple thoughts number one. I do remember bringing you on serious that first time and you really your finest day you're right. I don't really know why <hes> but it just seems just help it would be as i was nervous as hell and i. I didn't know what my what my voice was. You know i didn't know oh. I didn't even know how to talk like literally didn't even know the best way to talk you know and then the other thing i think about is i. I remember you. I remember talking with you and what you really wanted. You were kind of just getting started and you what you really wanted to. Just you really it wasn't really about the money for you or even prestige asia fame or followers or whatever you really just wanted to be respected and i remember you mentioning greg cosell as a guy i looked up to and that you really just wanted to be respected and had an have people respect your opinion man and you have absolutely done that. If that was the goal i would say absolutely mission accomplished. Thanks man. I appreciate it. You know <hes> yeah. I mean i just wanted people to kind of you. Know talking about it you know and so and i think that the best avenue toward that was to try to be not be the best at everything but just be competent in every area whether it was applying analytics or you know being you know halfway decent math or being a decent talker or being able to apply aspects of the game that maybe other people weren't looking at like offensive line stuff knowing you know every starter and key backup in the n._f._l. I keep like a running log of depth chart update with every single transaction even like undrafted rookies so i just always kind of have my like in my brain. Who's like the third or fourth string guy. Even you know in in playing preseason d._f._s. Even and we'll bring that into focus <hes> you know and then certainly <hes> just being able to watch the game and know what's going on and that's an ongoing going on doing process that you know i think you're always learning when you're watching the game and then i think that because the rules change a little bit every year and <hes> you know teams kind of are they starting to search. They play a little bit different every year. You know even chip kelly. I know that he didn't you know <hes> wind up having a ton of n._f._l. Success but you know a lot of coaches across the league like took ideas from him and dan in some ways he changed the way that i think teams play the same has been the case for sean mcveigh. Certainly other teams have always copy the patriots you know matt nagy andy reid andy reid is is probably the most copied offense talk of of anyone he's always evolving so just understanding all those things <hes> or at least trying to understand all those was things. I think it has been kind of the pathway that i've tried to <hes> try to take with that. We can reveal the next host of the fantasy feast eaten podcast you you know him very well evan. It's interesting because when i knew that you were starting a new venture with established the run dot com. I was was thrilled for you. I wish it much success. I mentioned it every podcast. I'm going to whenever you can or feel like coming on as a guest. We can absolutely do that but i knew i had to go big. I knew i had to get somebody. That was really really good and fantasy. Prose comes out with fantasy rankings their most accurate fantasy football draft experts. I don't even know you probably know more than i do about what those are really based upon but i looked at the top and the number one guy was a guy named joe dolan who was formerly with the site fantasy guru dot com with john hanson a buddy of mine so i got joe dolan's number from jon hansen. The fancy guru reached out to him and he's the next guy it's. It's a big shoes to fill so i felt like i had to go credibility. I had to go would the guy that was number. One on a couple of lists. I found and i love this pick because i've been listening to joe dolan for a long time. You actually had a podcast cast for several years with grand bard who has moved onto n._f._l. Dot com and n._f._l. Network and i always thought that joe dolan <hes> deserves. It's like a little bit bigger platform. Certainly fantasy guru is a very big platform but i always thought that he deserved more than what we had and because i think that he is very similar in terms of the way that he thinks he is not like he's not solely a film guy. He's not solely a numbers guy. He kinda gets it across the board. You know he gets that it. It doesn't have to be one way you can. <hes> you know you need to add you need to incorporate some subjectivity into you your analysis and he's going to bring that to you and he's going to give you very strong opinions that that's one thing that stands out about joe dolan. He's not gonna ride the fence ceman. He's a really good talker and <hes> i think he's such a good pick for for this role and you i wish him the the the the best some of those wednesday mornings when i drop off my kid from school and we gotta do like almost two hours worth of podcast we we do the what how do we do with the ace the a._f._c. and the n._f._c. We break down every single game then you know that's that's a big commitment for him and actually i had a phone call with them. <hes> the other night and that was one of the main topics was tackling the wednesday more. It's a lot of fun but and it's a a great challenge but it's it's a lot a lot of work but i think he's ready for. It and i think he's gonna absolutely crush truly awesome awesome pick great dude yes so we actually we started doing the last few years like we would do the thursday night game and then sunday ones then we we do the sunday fours and sunday night monday night that we broke it down. I think joe and i are going to record on tuesday afternoon. Because i have this new show over at radio dot com. We're gonna see we're going to see if he can bring bring the bring the substance bring the bring the heat like you have for so many years if he can bring the meat sandwich if you will speaking of meat by the way having hopefully you already subscribed to butcher box because it's absolutely absolutely delicious i the crap out of their organic chicken and they're salmon so freaking good and they send and it right to your door. Each box comes at least nine to eleven pounds of meat which is enough for twenty four individual sized. I e mails dude. I'm i'm to forty four this morning by the way i'm still eating. I yes i do eat but i just eat healthy and i don't eat as much new subscribers will receive ground beef for life at threat you sign up today and butcher box. We'll send you two pounds of one one. Hundred percent grass fed grass finished beef free in every box for the life of your subscription plus listeners get an additional twenty dollars allers off their first box limited time offer for two pounds of one hundred percent grass fed beef free in in every box for the life of your subscription plus twenty dollars off your first box. Go to butcher box dot com slash feast again. That's butcher box dot com slash feast evans so without further ado we are now joined for the first first time by joe dole and you can follow him on twitter at f. g. underscore joe dolan joe welcome to the fantasy. Does he faced. You got big shoes to fill my friend. They are absolutely massive shoes ross. I really hope can do that. It's been great talking to you and evan here ear over the last couple of weeks. I'm thrilled to be aboard. I'm really excited to to get into. It and i'm really happy to evans on here to say pass. The the torch is so if feel so kind of frankly a haughty to say so but i'm really glad he's on here and i got a chance to talk with him. So everybody knows knows that this is a this is a big loving family here yeah. They actually hate each other. They're doing this because i'm paying them to do this. I know i will say this before. I forget this thing these rankings evan how come i don't see you in the top ten. I've been touting doubting you for years. Is the number one fantasy analysts in the world. What did you have a bad year last year. What where do these fantasy prose rankings come from. I don't i don't participate in that. <hes> <hes> we we can have an affair conversation about god yeah but it isn't. It isn't an absolute testimony to how how good of that joe is one thing. You're going to expect you know one of the best pieces of advice that ross ever gave me. I still think about it all the time. I still like i think they need to get better at it all the time. Is you need to bring more energy need to bring more energy. You know because again when i was doing that that serious bit for him <hes> in the early days i wasn't bringing enough energy and raw russia need to bring more energy pass that advice onto a lot of other fantasy analysts were starting to get into the podcast game in particular joe. Don one doesn't need that advice because joe dolan brings a ton of energy. You can hear it in his voice and i can't wait for him to cross this. Well all right. I'm going to tell you something. My wife would argue. I bring way too much energy as with my shrink whoa whoa whoa t._m._i. Joe is your first. I episode. Your wife says you bring way too much. I'm a little too loud. She tells me i scream when i'm on the phone which probably is something. I need to work on but let's get. Let's get to the rankings. Okay my rankings of the rankings that i put up fantasy prose. They are very good. They are certified very good but ross. I can't can't just come onto a podcast and just list rankings. That's a really bad podcast. You need to have justification behind the rankings. You need to really reach out and acquire acquire knowledge from every area possible and this is something that i've learned from evan following him on twitter and reading his stuff he's a sponge and and being sponges important being able to absorb all all the right stuff but also when you ring that sponge out the stuff that comes out has to be it has to be translatable translatable to the people so that they understand it and frankly. I think i've done a really good job. In an evans writing is a it's a big model for me as a writer being being able to make that information easily digestible for people so people can take it and make a big word and fantasy is actionable and so people can take that information nation and make it actionable for their fantasy leagues and let's be frank to be entertaining on the podcast. People listen to podcasts to be entertained. They listened to be informed and this podcast has done that so well and i really hope that i can step in and do the same. I'm i'm really excited for it but i hope i can just continue what evans footsteps this is not going going to be in my opinion ross a big change for you or for the listener yeah and you guys better. Have you back on as a guest like don't just ignore me. You know especially in the off seasons. When you've got nothing else to talk about. Maybe give old having to call. I would love to have you on here and so we can go back and forth ross. I mean that sounds great to me. I really i'm just so excited overwhelmed right now. Actually i'm very rarely at a loss for words but i am right now. Well so. I've already started to different. Websites sites established the past dot com and don't establish run down so i will be heavily promoting those is to evan. You're never coming back on here. You're no longer going to have the thousands and thousands of listeners and we'll see who does better established the run dot com or establish the past dot com. We'll see joe and i start her own. Little site didn't even tell you about that. It's not even ironic. We're being honest. You need to establish the past. I think maybe this is in your department but i'm sure evident. I can also establish the athletic for fantasy football writing. We can definitely do that. I can vouch for that all right so <hes> joe in tomorrow's episode you and i are going to break down down some of your fantasy drafting tips for the people drafting this week next weekend et cetera but i think and i know evan probably knows zelano this but for the listeners can you give them your background like how how you got to become a full time fantasy. The analyst ross a lot of times people ask for a advice on breaking into the fantasy industry and i wish i could tell them something something other than i got lucky. I have a big mouth but those that that's what it is for me. When i was graduating when i was graduating from college i got a phone call literally a week before i graduated from the philadelphia eagles. They were looking to fill a staff writer under dates barrio in philadelphia philadelphia eagles. Those guys hire anybody buddy. They'll hire complete scrubs as you well know from listeners of this podcast so called me chris mcpherson called me in april april of oh eight right before i graduated college and i managed to get that gig with philadelphia eagles dot com and i wrote for the website covering eagles. I was in an n._f._l. L. locker room every day got to see how teams operated got to see how beats operated and that was important. That was an important learning experience for me and when when that sees it was basically a one year internship one season internship the eagles at that time went all the way to the n._f._c. championship game so i got to go out to arizona and cover that game really likud experience and that ended a co worker of mine by the name of steve he he soul hey. I know you've been doing a fantasy column. I've been playing wing fantasy for years but they they really wanted a fantasy column on the eagles website so they were like oh. Here's this intern we'll have him. Do it turns out. I actually ended up really enjoying writing the column breaking down match ups and i learned how to do it from an eagles focus which allowed me to go in-depth into their match ups every week and my co worker steve when when my internship is expiring. He said hey check this out. He found a job posting on monster dot com. It was from a guy another scrub in the fantasy industry by the name of john hansen who was hiring for at the time fantasy dot com and i interviewed with john a couple of times and in march two thousand nine about a month after i left the eagles i and moved down to atlantic county new jersey and i started with fantasy guru dot com and i ascended to managing editor there and i was there for ten years and i'm i'm currently i guess you would say in a transitional time right now and ross. This is certainly part of that but i was there for ten years and evan can can attest to this is well what the fantasy industry was in early two thousand nine compared to where it is now. It's it's completely different. It's outrageous. When when i started it was a bunch of geo city looking websites with a bunch of old guys who had thirty five word blurbs on things and now it has it has developed into a multibillion dollar industry and the it seems like the best football analysis is filtered through the lens of fantasy and bedding and i know a lot of people will turn their noses up at that and i understand that but i'm i'm also on sirius x._m. Fantasy sports radio where we get phone calls and it's not a sports talk show where people call in to air their grievances or air their opinions uh-huh they call in because they want advice on things that can be to bring this word back actionable and people want advice they take the the analysis and they make it actionable and i think that's why so many things are filtered through the lens of fantasy fantasy shows on the e._s._p._n. N._f._l. dot com and this was really not happening when i started in the industry a year after i started was the establishment of sirius x._m. Fantasy sports radio and i think that's been a huge catalyst in the growing. The industry twitter has been a massive catalyst in the growth of the industry because people can get their stuff out there and get noticed and it's really so different different and the fact that i've been able to survive your makes me think a number one. I'm super lucky and a too. Many people are listening to me but i think getting into the industry at at the age i did when i was very adaptable. I was living alone. I think that really helped carry me to where i am right now pretty cool man. I love stories where he's like that. That's awesome. You guys have similar backgrounds. I mean think about what you guys. Were doing and now you. Both you know make really nice living fantasy football which is awesome absolutely awesome any any tips any other advice anything else evan. Even that joe needs to no not really because joe is just going to crush this. You know so i mean i i. I think he's got like i think he's got. He's got a really good you'll approach and by vision for where he wants to take. This and i think it's gonna be outstanding branding and again. Don't forget about me. Bring me on every now and again in the off seasons at least evan it has been awesome. You and i will still are you friends. You are right. I am very tight with how many people i follow on twitter because i literally read every tweet that any of my follow hello everybody i've follow tweet i read every tweet on my time line and you're staying even though even though you're no longer the fancy feast co host you're staying because you actually get very valuable tweets and very valuable re tweets of information so i find value i can remember when i was working with bigger mcfarland on sirius x._m. And he asked why i didn't follow him. I said because your twitter feed provides no value for me and he he he said well what do you mean and it was unbelievable because i went and i looked at his twitter and like his verse tweet. The most recent recent tweet was i'm going golfing at tampa bay golf club and a couple of hours looking forward to it just roasted him mercilessly ursula sleep for that tweet. I don't need that. I don't have time for that in my life. I don't care about you golfing so it was amazing but no you still provide value oven and always will and yes. You are always welcome on the show and i said it before. I'll say it again really really encourage people if you haven't already check out establish the run dot com is overflowing with unbelievable all content that you should all absolutely checkout. Thanks so much evan. Thanks guys good luck joe. I really appreciate it. Thank you well that was really cool guys and that was exactly what i was hoping for. That was awesome. Dare i say box of awesome yeah box of awesome dot com. Here is the deal. Take the quiz at box of awesome dot com. Your answers will help them. Pick the right box of awesome for you. So you go there. You tell them on what you like and they'll say okay. We know exactly what would be the best box of awesome for you every month. Whether you want to rule the pool lounge in style with something traffic on your hand. I like the weekender bag. I that's what i got the weekender bag. If you like whiskey they got all kinds of just very very cool things that you can get box of awesome dot dot com is the key though you gotta go otherwise. They won't know what it is that you like. What is that you want that. That is the key. It's free to sign up. You get twenty percent off your first monthly box. When you sign up at box of awesome dot com <hes> and enter the code feast at checkout that's box of awesome dot com code feast for twenty percent percent off your first box. That'll do it by the way for today's fantasy feast. We will also have another their feast tomorrow where joe will go over his do's and don'ts for your draft so for those who haven't drafted yet. You're really gonna wanna hear joe. Dolan's do's and don'ts since we've established pushed. He's basically the number one guy out there and helping you prep for your draft so make sure you're listening to tomorrow's fantasy pieces well for for right now. Though i am totally stuff we're done thanks for listening to the fantasy feast podcast make sure to also subscribe to the ross tucker football podcast even money business of sports and the college draft all available at apple podcasts ross tucker dot com or wherever podcasts can be found. It's october twenty seven th two thousand seven margaret georgia football's head coach strolls across the turf of municipal stadium in jacksonville florida in just thirty minutes. His bulldogs will kick off against the florida gators and for once richt is brimming with confidence. Both teams are now five and two so neither is really a national championship contention but for richt. This is still the most important game he's ever coached. It's chillier than usual today. In jacksonville the city. That's hosted pretty much every florida georgia game since the nineteen thirties jacksonville is supposed to be neutral game site but it doesn't feel that way to rick act. It's in florida for crying out loud and a game called. The gator bowl is played here. How could it be neutral. Rick thinks as he looks up at a sea z. of orange and blue gator fans. The gators brought the bulldogs to heal in five of their last six matchups. It's given florida a huge mental. Edge zhen made the buttoned-up georgia coach desperate enough to do something crazy at least for him something with swagger. Maybe a little arrogance something to get at some fire in his squad's belly even if it pisses off some football purists something in other words very unmarked rick lake in seven seasons at georgia richt has built a reputation as a man of faith. Who's quiet decency stands out in the cutthroat world of college football for him. It's simple you win with integrity you lose with integrity. It's the georgia way. That's what makes this right now. The most off the wall moment of mark ricks entire career as kickoff approaches rick makes his way back to the cramped locker room stands before his players. There's and reminds them of his plan to snap their losing streak. He tells them if you don't get a celebration penalty after our first score. You'll all be doing early morning. Runs welcome oh come to jacksonville and the seventy fifth encounter at this site between these two better rivals however you need to compete if you're going to have a real rivalry and georgia georgia has lost as we said fifteen at the last seventeen almost nine minutes into a scoreless game with georgia facing third and goal at the florida one yard line star are running back. No sean marino takes a hand off and jumps over the pile of lyman in front of him marino up over the charger touchdown and here comes the entire not watch this for excessive celebration. We may have fifteen handke's here on this one. I can't believe this was playing. This was absolutely flying that he is going to try to find his t- tired of having the psychological advantage he's willing picked up the penalty nearly every georgia player on the sideline rushing the field penalty flags fly in every direction the c._b._s. Cameras swing to the other side line anticipating reaction from the gators. Tim tebow florida's phenomenally talented sophomore quarterback looks confused used sodas tvos coach urban meyer meyer is frantically waving his florida players off the field to avoid pointless penalties. Meanwhile rick takes makes it all in happily and knows his plan worked. The gators are rattled as the second half unfolds. Georgia's still doesn't give away its leave your stafford marino touch the bulldogs match every tibo touchdown with one of their own and win the game forty two to thirty for the first time in years. The florida georgia game lives up to the hype. A rivalry. That's been uneven in the last decade is incredible once again. Georgia's full team touchdown celebration quickly gets the nickname in the media. The gator stomp richt is thrilled but he's created an unexpected new problem while he made the rivalry competitive again he also just encouraged urban meyer tim tebow and the the entire florida team to spend the next three hundred sixty four days plotting their revenge that was just a preview of sports wars to to hear the rest of the story subscribed to sports wars on apple podcasts or wherever you're listening right now.

evan silva football joe twitter joe dolan georgia florida ross greg cosell yahoo sirius eagles apple jeff ratcliffe keith cleveland bella brian jacksonville Rick matt waldman
Saturday Scouting Report: North Dakota State QB Trey Lance with Mark Schoefield

Big Blue View

29:04 min | Last week

Saturday Scouting Report: North Dakota State QB Trey Lance with Mark Schoefield

"Support for this podcast comes from. Wg you do you want a more skilled. Loyal and effective workforce consider a partnership with western governors university over three hundred organizations. Already count on. Wg you for education benefits. Students can fit schooling around their schedules and even complete courses and degree sooner than planned. And it's all online partner with. Wg you to make a smart investment in your companies and your employees future. Learn more at wvu dot edu slash partnerships. Now joining us on. Today's saturday scouting report episode. Here for big. Blue view is marked. Scofield our quarterback evaluator puts out a ton of great content and articles about quarterbacks. As well as with touchdown wire marcus here today to discuss trae lance. The only quarterback that is of a notable values already declare. Jimmy newman has declared also but trae lance now out currently one of the few first-round guys that is on the market mark. Thank you so much for taking the time to join the show how you doing today. I'm doing well. Joe chris greats to be with you guys excited to talk about trae lance excited to see where he's going to end up. How go on his sort of path to the nfl. But more than anything else just excited to be here with you guys so trey. Lance is really a perplexing prospect. Because if you see what the former walter payton man are. Sorry walter payton award winner rather at the fcs level what he was able to do in his national championship campaign in twenty nineteen. He made a lot of fantastic plays and then the very odd statistic. That almost never happens in college. Football is not turning the ball over once in his redshirt freshman year. Mark just from your perspective on a very base level. What are some of the traits that lance has that stands out to you might be standing out already to talent evaluators. Well i think there are three that come to mind. Athleticism arm talent and scheme fit. We'll take those sort of an order. Leads obviously north dakota state's offense. He did a lot with his legs. perhaps in lod with work haulage offenses are today but they used them on designed runs. They put the football on his hand at times in their national championship. Game that year. I believe he had more runs than throws but he showed you the athletic ability where you could drop them into some nfl offenses today that rely on the quarterback to use his legs as a weapon. And you could see how he would be effective. And you're seeing more and fell. Offense is open to the idea of the quarterback as a offensive weapon. Not just somebody who makes us from the pocket. Sweet checks that athleticism blocks and there's the talent Makes throws with accuracy to all levels of the field on and off platform inside outside of structure inside outside of the pocket and arm. Talent is one of those boxes that you also have to check as a quarterback. It's one of those abilities that i think is becoming more non-negotiable when you start thinking about what a quarterback has to have to make it in the next level. It doesn't mean you have to have josh allens arm strength or anything like that but you have to meet and surpass basic threshold of velocity of accuracy of trajectory and he checks all those boxes and finally i think the thing that will have him on. Nfl radars it might make him very attractive to a certain number of coaches around the league is the offense he was one of. The north dakota state did a lot of spread stuff they did. Some fans rely on his athleticism. Mike i just talked about but you also saw some of those under center plays. You saw some of those play action. Maury puts the back to the defense which cuts down the time. He has to make progression. Reads at diagnosed with the secondaries. Doing those are things. That a lot of quarterbacks don't enter the league having the skill set in the experience doing he checks that box. A lot of college quarterbacks they're working more spread meshing the backfield where your eyes are always on the secondary and then having to adjust to that back to the defense type of plays a bit of an adjustment learning curve so he checks that boxes whilst those of the three areas where i think you know trae land has a background in body of film work. The scouts are going to appreciate those traits. I think are pretty apparent. Just watching him on tak- he is a big powerful guy. he can run his throwing motion. Looks a little weird to me. Maybe not quite philip rivers but kind of in that direction. Maybe a little bit with that out seems like short. Three-quarters release but you know the the arm talent. You can definitely see that you can see him throwing off platform throwing on the run and being able to hit guys doing that but you know he. He isn't at the top of this quarterback class. so what other than not being trevor lawrence. Did you think it's kind of him back from that. Maybe keeping him in the top three or depending on what happens with the cal. Trask some of the other quarterback prospects that are kind of emerging in this very weird season. What are keeping him being in that three to five range supposed to maybe the top one or two walker i think part of it is what you just alluded to there. The fact that this is a strange season you know we get the benefit of a full body of work from guys like trask. Who's having a fantastic year from. Zack wilson at byu. Who's having a fantastic gear from mack. Jones alabama was putting together a quiet little campaign. And we've seen quarterbacks joe burrow mitchell trubisky others sort of rise up boards thanks to a full season a final season in the college level where they can put it all together whereas lance. You have a freshman season which was great. But as i know we're gonna talk about was an fcs campaign. And then you have the one showcase game against central arkansas. Where it wasn't like he let the world on fire. Lot of people were excited to see that game and he certainly showed you flashes of what he can be in flashes of the traits. That i just talked about buddy turned the ball over and made a couple mistakes now. People are a little wary. And so i think that is holding him back and also i mentioned the scheme fit and are pros and cons to that. The pros are now some. Nfl scouts might like see in that. They might like seeing the offense that he runs in for example. When i did a video entree lance with matt waldman. You know matt and i talked about. How kyle shanahan draft trae lance right. Now drop them into his offense and not miss a beat because he could run that kyle shanahan under center twenty one personnel play action type stuff and have success. But as we've seen with certain with the san francisco offense you know part of the success of that offense and the success of the forty niners hat is. It gives the quarterback a lot of help. And that's what trait lynch was played with. He was planned in. This system does give him a lot of help at so for other offenses schemes. He might struggle. There might be a very steep development carve and when your gut you have a small body of work to basin opinion on. You have a quarterback that might need some more hand holding you have the fcs question and then you balance that with guys like lawrence guys like fields. Who's really helping himself this year. You know some of the other guys. We just talked about like trask. Like j. matt jones and is act wilson. It might be a tougher sell if your general manager. If you're evaluator to sell it on look we could still draft this guy early ahead of those guys. We have more information on. It's going to make it a tougher pitch you know in those draft room so those are probably i some of the things that are holding them back beyond biondi. You know some of the questions about you. Know working into reads working through progressions and some of the other elements of his game. You you already just touched on here. One thing that we were really curious about was the fact that he not only played at the fcc is level but this is a guy that's actually an underclassmen deciding to declare at from the level. That really does not happen. I played at the fps level. I've seen what some of these guys need to do. In order to stand out but as a essentially as a redshirt sophomore playing only one game he is now declaring and he's now a part of this draft pool. Does that ultimately already talked about how complicates things like. How much further does this make. Things more confident to sell as a scout or as the general manager. Maybe as a head coach. If you're trying to sell this guy as the guy you want to lead your franchise going forward. Yeah it's a tremendous question. Joe because we have to remember and sometimes this gets lost during the draft cycle that the people in those rooms making those decisions. They have bills to pay their mortgages. They have you know tuition's and things like that they don't wanna get fired you know and as we've often seen during draft cycles. It's an easy pitch to say. Hey here's the guy. The quarterback from power five school that's played a couple of years had a great final season. You know this is the guy. We should draft because if he boston's like while you drafted the mold you know when you step outside of that and then say look. We're going to draft an fcs kid a redshirt sophomore who played a season at one game and has some questions about not just a level of competition. But how much film is put together. No we're gonna pass on some of those other safer place to draft this guy. If it goes wrong you get fired. I mean that's just put it out there. You know if you draft justin fields. You know we'll just say arbitrarily fourth overall and it doesn't pan out look drafted a big ten ohio state quarterback. It seemed like it would fit and it didn't work out. You're not going to lose your job over that or if you do you're going to get another one pretty quickly if you pass on that guy to go outside the box. A bit draft lanson. He doesn't work out. That's decision that gets you fired and it doesn't get you another job right away and so that's one of the things that i think lance's family himself people around him have to be concerned about is the reality of how this business works. And so that's going to be a concern. I do think that we have to remember though the flipside of that is we often think about fcs quarterbacks in the level of competition and we say well you know the plan against the best talent is going to be a learning curve. Don't forget you've got a defensive coordinator that you're going against his well. Whose entire job is to confuse you and make you make mistakes and this is something i went through with carson wentz wars in two thousand and sixteen when people are saying well. You can never draft an fcs quarterback from north dakota state hall. It's crazy guy. Got hurt his senior year. Like this is insane and i kept telling people look at. The level of competition wasn't great. But he's going up against defensive coordinators who are trying to confuse them and they weren't able to do it and so yes the guys on the field. That's one thing. But you're also going up against coaches. That are paid to do what they do. So they have to keep that in mind as well so for all that stuff that you just threw out there and some of the complications with it. Do you think that trae lance is a player that might significantly benefit going into a situation like jordan. Love has where he's not expected to start coming from a smaller. Fps program but a lot of people consider him to have some serious arm talent. Do you think that he's better off going to team like that rather than maybe a team like. We're obviously a giants show here like the giants that need to if they chose to move on from daniel jones wanted a quick change of of scenery. And somebody who could possibly have an impact immediately. Absolutely i mean. I'm firmly in the camp of team. Bring quarterbacks launched slowly unless they don't give you a choice you know. i think. Look at the dolphins and how they handled to look at knowing. The chargers hubbard only saw the field because of a medical mistake. I made if a quarterback shows you that he can handle things on day one. Like i think joe burrow showed cincinnati. Yeah you could start away. But i'm more of the mind that i know the economics are such that you wanna play rookies quickly but i do think that you can bring them along slowly particularly guys like you mentioned jordan love. That's a great example. I trade lands would be another example. Where unless you are run in that same you know you want to bring him along slowly. But i do think that he's somebody that can develop into an upper tier starting quarterback in the national football league on. I have that belief based on the film. But i'm just a guy sitting in front of a microphone. That's drinking a sprite. Zero right now at if i get that pick raw if i get that evaluation ron. I probably don't get fire. You know so. It's a bit safer for me. You know so for those men and women in the room that have to make that decision. It is a tougher call and those factors. We just talked about. We'll go into making that decision. But i do think if the giants you know to drill down to new york if they do decide to move on from daniel jones. I'm not sure. Trained leads is going to be the answer at least in the immediate future. Okay so i have two things. One is more of a philosophical thing. I've been wanting to ask you. So i take the opportunity and but the first part is just you. Do you think based on how raw trae lance is in some areas of his game. I kind of particularly the mental aspects of the game which yeah as you said before. There's there's a certain baseline physical traits that any. Nfl quarterback needs to have but over and above that. The game is really mental at that position. Where you're reading defenses diagnosing anticipating. What's going to happen making sure you're on the same page with everybody on your offense yet. Do you think would have really benefited from staying at north dakota state which again we said that. Fcs level is viewed with some skepticism by some scouts. But north dakota state is also the alabama of the afc s right. Yeah i mean. I think in a sense he might have benefited from another year. Another full body of work. Another chance for the coaches to expand the playbook and ask more of him. You know it's one thing to have that freshman year. That he had twenty a touchdown passes no interceptions thousand yards rushing as well that's incredible production and a credible efficiency but it's the mental side of it where he's reading hatfield concepts and one and to receiver concepts a lot of simplified staff. Lot of play action. Put him in a position to be successful. I thought they could have had a second season with him where they opened up the playbook a bit more asked him to do a bit more and yet you might have thrown five or six interceptions. You might have turned the ball over a little bit more but you would have also had more evidence to point to and say look this guy could step in and run an nfl offense right now in a might have alleviated. Some of the concerns. That even i have as view and ham or at least trying to view him as somebody that could step in as a rookie week one week. Two whenever and take over your franchise. So i think in that sense he might have. Benefited i understand the look. We all know how this game works. Quarterbacks get pushed up the board and so if you're trained lands at you've got the second the last draft ends not just chuckle heads like me saying it. But mel kiper junior saying yeah. He's one of the top five quarterbacks to watch and maybe a top five player that's going to have an impact on you. That's going to influence your decision. Making and so i understand why he came out But i do think he might have benefit from another year. Okay and so the more overarching philosophical question. I kind of had is an it does kind of touch on this is should we just in general Guys on the outside like us or all the way up to scouts. Gm's should should how we evaluate quarterbacks coming out of college start to evolve. Because you talked about you could drop freelance right in the san francisco offense right now and he would be productive. I probably similar with the cliff. Kingsbury offense he's probably not cuyler. Murray but i'm not entirely sure collar. Murray's human andy. Reid would probably have success with him right away. Do we need to start. Maybe changing from how we used to evaluate the brady manning field general pocket passer archetype to something new something different where the nfl cayenne if they're actually willing to work with college prospects in meet them on their terms absolutely and i think chris in some level. That's already begun. I think the economics of the nfl which has made it sort of a bit of a competitive advantage to have a rookie quarterback on that rookie deal. Get them on the field. So you can then spend money and used capital in terms of both cap space and the draft to build around them. You want to get that guy on the field and to be effective sooner rather than later and so earlier. When i mentioned you know as much as i'm team sort of sitting waiting develop the league is moving in a different direction and so you have to do and actually wrote a piece about a couple of years ago for the pro football weekly draft magazine. I talked to guys like matt. Bowen and dan hatton tony. Kobe and others around the league about this sort of growth and turn it towards young quarterbacks and the three year development a window for young quarterback is is gone. It's a dinosaur so what you have to do. If you're going to get that player on the field is to put them in offenses. They are ready to run. Which in many cases is the sort of cliff. Kingsbury offense with a college spread stuff defense where they're familiar matt. Bowen said he'd go as far as to go back and talk to the these guys in their high school coaches and say look. What were they good at in high school because we want to get that stuff into our playbook ed so i think we're seeing a move towards the old battleship type of quarterback that will stand in the pocket and hand in their on third and seven and take the shot from the free running blitzer and throw the out route on third and seven to move the chains. That's a thing of the past. You'd like to have that in certain spots. But what's more important. Now are two things. I think in terms of course evaluation and i wrote this last week over top wire. You need to have some mobility now. It doesn't mean it doesn't have to be qatar. Murray but you have to be able to create space as a passer and to make people miss as a as an athlete as a ball carrier because the more mobility you have the more you can do conceptually as an offense and let's face it the guys on the defense of ball defensive side of the ball or athletic as all get out now and so you're going to have free runners and if you're just a statue in the pocket you're going to hamstring your office so you have to have some mobility. I looked at those three rookies. You don't have to be too. You know but you have to be like herbert and to be able to move around or like borough saint thin to create space and free rusher on board situation and keep plays alive so you have to have mobility and the other thing i think you have to have is an understanding of leverage in the secondary guys like me the old battle axes of this sort of football media space. We love it when a quarterback and like diagnose covered two or three cloud or stomp or stubby and we get all excited about it. And i'll do videos on twitter shown. Offer these trying to show off the little bit that i know but in reality. You don't need that like look at what cincinnati's doing well joe burrow empty formations man concept to one side zone to the other so he doesn't need to decipher if it's three cloud or three sky just as the no of its own. And then he throws to the zone read that he has and what you have to have. There is just an understanding of the leverage of the nearest defender and the ability to put the ball away from the nearest defender. So those are the things that we have to start. Really focusing on as we start to evaluate quarterbacks reach draft cycle. Do they have some mobility and can they sort of decipher leverage. Have the feel for those throws and then put the football away from the leverage of that nearest defender. Because i think those right now are the to sort of non-negotiables for young quarterbacks. They start their nfl careers or mark. That was all we had for you today to discuss trae lance. Thank you so much for taking the time to hop on with us for this saturday scouting report Mark where can people find you on social media and if there's anything else you'd like to plug feel free to you guys. Thanks so much for having me on. This was a ton of fun. You could find me on the bird app at mark. Scofield on twitter. I promise not to do too many full. I know twitter. Just drop the fleets on us and lot of handwritten consternation about now twitter stores and things like that. I did put one fleet up. It was a video of my cats with africa by toto in the background so it was basically like as on brand as it gets for me so yeah but you can find me on twitter at mark scofield on like you mentioned Usa today's touchdown wire big blue balloon. Green nation pats pop it up on twitter. The bird up at mark's kofi was probably the best way for me today. Every answer matters more than ever before because whether it's about health deliveries or finance some things just can't wait. That's why ibm is helping. Businesses manage millions of calls texts and chats with watson. assistant it's conversational. I designed to help your customers find the answers. They need faster no matter the industry. Let's put smart to work visit. Ibm dot com slash watson assistant to learn more support for this. Podcast comes from microsoft teams. Now there are more ways to be a with. Microsoft teams. Bring everyone together in new virtual room. Collaborate live building ideas on the same page and see more of your team on screen at once. Learn more at microsoft dot com slash teams to wrap today's episode of the saturday scouting report after hearing that fantastic conversation and thoughts for mark scofield. We're just going to provide our thoughts on trae lance as a prospect and again well part of the stuff that we talked about how it might not be super likely that giants go and grab a guy like trae lance or even a quarterback in this class. It's still worth breaking down a super talented player like him. Chris just looking at him as a prospect. He is super unique. He is a fantastic runner. I had the very odd comparison of saying he he derrick henry but he's a quarterback because he's aggressive he's powerful. He's not afraid of contact but the fact that he has a very strong arm really adds to his upside and value. Yeah i would say there is definitely some. Maybe josh allen to his game. The buffalo quarterback not the edge player. He has a live arm. He can make any throw you ask of him really and he can throw on the move he can throw off platform and i do like the way he takes care of the ball. You get through a season. No interceptions i. I'm not sure if he's thrown an interception in his college career which is granted it was only about nineteen games with that still impressive and like you said he is a big powerful runner. Not super agile. Like lamar jackson tyler. Murray but he's he's a tough guy to tackle he's got pretty good vision in the open field yes so he did end up throwing an interception this season of the one game that he played against arkansas. He did end up turning the ball over but that attention to detail. An unwillingness to turn the ball over. That is a very rare trait to find in a quarterback. You're not going to find guys that. Are that protective of the football. He has a very live arm. He's a very good runner. He's good at throwing outside of structure. Which is big for any quarterback prospect. If but if i was to pinpoint some of his weaknesses besides coming from a lower level and playing lower levels of competition. He's a little bit behind in terms of mental processing than other. Quarterbacks are in this class. He has a tendency to lock onto receivers. He has a tendency to be delayed in his thought process on where he wants to deliver the ball to that is what really slows down. I think he could be more effective as a passer. If he slows the game down around him which is gonna to take some time and then lastly his deep accuracy is very inconsistent. There are some throws if you look at his tape where he missed receivers that were wide open for deep routes that he completely overthrew so he needs to improve that touch on those deep throws over. I mean i can see guys being a top twenty pick. I don't know if you can definitely say with some of the flashes. We've seen from zack. Wilson and some decent things from kyle. Trask that he is heads. Above those guy those guys but he's gonna be a top twenty pick some team that is able to draft him and let him sit that. Let me like a pittsburgh. Steelers team or a new orleans saints team in indianapolis colts type team. Any of those teams are are perfect for trae lance. I just don't wanna throw him right into the fire. Because i i just don't think the results are going to be very good. Yeah like like mark said in our conversation. He trae lands is a player. Who is if you want him on the field right away. You're going to have have to have a very accommodating coaching staff. He's going to in an offense that is basically the the offense. He ran in college. A lot of half hatfield reads a one or two read progressions. Lots of rpo's some read option to take advantage of his legs. You bring up his deep accuracy and to me. I think that's really a mechanical issue for him. I think he does have the potential to be a good deep ball thrower with good timing. Good anticipation but i noticed. His throwing motion is a little bit. Wonky he's got that he's got a compact released but a bit of a long wind up which is a little weird for me to watch. It's kinda like an inverted russell wilson throwing motion and also. He doesn't always bring his hips with. He doesn't always lineup hips. Especially when he's trying to operate quickly now his his arm is so good. That doesn't really matter on the short intermediate passes when he has to really fire the ball down the field it it can be inconsistent if he doesn't get his hips lined up doesn't transfer his weight. I think that's when you see the see that inaccuracy show up more folks that is going to be at for us on this saturday scouting report episode during the giants by week. Stay tuned for our list of defensive players that are perfect fits or would be a strong consideration for selection in the first round for the giants should have us on social media at big view at jodi leone and at raptor in pay. Lastly make sure you go to biglou dot com or more giants news and analysis. Heads up baseball fans. There's a brand new podcast over on pinstripe. Bali of sp nation the bomber. Brothers podcast featuring me ryan chester and my brother shaun together. We tackle all the latest surrounding yankees universe with in-depth analysis. And some help from plenty of exciting. Guess we're joined now by brian hoke. He's the yankees beat reporter for mlb dot com. We're joined now by bob klapisch. He is a baseball writer for the new york times now. By then lindbergh. He is a writer for the ringer. He's the co host of the effectively. Wild podcast on fan grabbed jack. Kerr david cone david. Thanks so much for joining us. Pleasure guys you can catch new episodes every week as part of the pinstripe alley community of podcasts. Be sure to check out and subscribe for free on apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your podcast

trae lance joe burrow kyle shanahan north dakota walter payton lance wvu dot edu slash Jimmy newman Joe chris trask josh allens trae land trevor lawrence Zack wilson mitchell trubisky Nfl giants matt waldman daniel jones biondi
The QB Scho Show #49: Championship Game & Senior Bowl Prep

Bleeding Green Nation

34:20 min | 11 months ago

The QB Scho Show #49: Championship Game & Senior Bowl Prep

"Well on into a QB SCO showed this episode road forty nine brought to you by the five poke espy nation and bleeding green nation. I'm your host. Michael Kissed Bother me on twitter at Michael Kissed and fell as always joined by quarterback one one in my heart he is Mark Mayfield mark. We are getting prepped. Four senior bowl week next week so we have to make sure that our livers are right. We've got our vitamin EDMUND B. We were all packed up ready to go mark. I'm ready. How about you brother? I'm ready brother I. It's always a bit of a mixed bag going down and we'll because you do it and it's fun and it's great at your body doesn't recover for like a week and I'm a man. I'm forty three now and so the trip gets tougher and tougher each year. But it's always a blast so as a blast being with you and doing a show whether it's here or for mobile and we're going to get to the historical reference and it's one that we didn't do last week is remember dear listeners gentle listeners we came on live we were in hot. We had offense coordinator candidates to talk about one who's now going to Carolina. May Joe Brady now rest in peace. He's as it goes to the Carolina Panthers we didn't get to do a historical reference and believe it or not it prompted. Perhaps my favorite sweet ever move from Kayla Frederickson so longtime listener the show who tweeted at us. She's at K.. Freddie thirty one at a restaurant listen to my boyfriend. The met that Mark Scofield and Michael Kissed. I didn't talk about the battle of canal which is just an incredible tweet at so I think we owe it not just a Kayla mature boyfriend to talk about the battle Canadia which is where I was going to go last week and I don't want to dwell on it too long. I know you've got some stuff to talk about well by will quickly just by touching upon the battle of midway into into sixteen BC and Hannibal's victory over the Romans and to set the stage with us. We need to quickly outline the Roman approach in this battle based on what took place in their previous to meet with the Carthaginians Army. Armie Rome entered Canadian. Look into attack through the middle and then split the Carthaginians forces and then overwhelm them with their superior numbers and perhaps anticipating this Hannibal. Hannibal assembled his forces to use this to his advantage. He assembled his men at a crescent shape ball. John Ford with the very center form and a blunt point behind which the remaining units ranged outward it behind the winds of this convex formation looked to failings of Libyan. Infantry is were Hannibal's finest now sport in Roman arms and armor captured from the enemy dead five-thousand-strong each anchored a whole lot and as the battle waged enraged on the center of the punic crescent fell back before the punishment presence of the advance in Roman enforces. But this is what Hannibal wanted by. Four Shenice line outward to begin with he had ensured that the Roman infantry will be pulled into the Carthaginians forces as they fell back Hannibal able had intended to use the Romans momentum against him and it was working Rita now from outnumbered by Cormac O'Brien which hold up for the listeners on news channel eight once Hannibal's Hannibal's retreating center rallied and turned on its embattled pursuers. The Roman Army so close to eighty thousand strong found itself hemmed from nearly every direction. Hannibal Hannibal maybe wealth hope for this outcome. But the completeness of his triumph was probably beyond even it's wildest dreams he still had a huge enemy to subdue enrollments were not in the habit of laying down their weapons and times of moral crisis quite to the contrary in fact this partially explains what followed a drought exhausted horror. Show of slaughter between two foes lows you launched. Its embraced the idea of war without quarter. Spite Hannibal's penchant for taking allied prisoners and treated them well in the interest of breaking ties with Rome. The fear of had gone onto far to permit restraint the Libyan their thrust and failings is the Gaelic in Spanish infantry with a tribal war bands and has drew's pounded horsemen all killed their way to the centre intricate legionnaires fighting desperately thousand separate melees whose participants were incapable of comprehending the totality of the calamity closing in on them. And I want to close as with this from Livia Roman historian who wrote about the dead. Some they found line with their thighs and knees gashed but still alive. These bared their throats next next and bad them trained at blood. They still had left some they discovered with the heads buried in the earth. They had evidently suffocated themselves but making holes in the ground and and heap in the soil over their faces just absolutely chilling. And it's reminiscent of how I felt watching the New England patriots crush their season away. I I had just read through. That part in. Carthage must be destroyed by miles. It's interesting the reason that there were two consuls. There they switched as and one was more progressive than the other one was because the temporary dictator Fabius also known as the layer. He had been Embarrassed a couple years before where they were trying to set this ambush Bush for Hannibal. They have these guys on this hill. This this higher position what not in Hannibal learns of this. And so what he does is he knows. He's GONNA get ambushed. She we know that the trapped and so on and so forth he takes these two thousand cattle that he had captured any attaches branding irons to them and he ushers them up this hill to the Roman Roman fortification where it's at night and all day here is two thousand cattle with these branding. Irons sounding like They avoid the ambush that way Fabius's embarrassed and then they go back to electing their consuls as they normally would so. That was nice little tidbit that I didn't know about before him before reading that book. So I'm glad you're you're getting too. I think biggest battle a battle Caen to pronounce whatever it is read up on it gentle listeners. A highly recommended here from the key. So show mark all right so the awesome battle of Kaneko knee historical reference out of the way. I said news that is going to be covered more in depth on. BG On radio coming out tomorrow morning. The Eagles coaching staff has been poached. And we're not mad about it as defensive backs coach Corey Unlim- has taken the defensive coordinator position with the Detroit. Lions in a move that nobody saw coming but was heavily celebrated on the timeline online had a great resume before coming to Philadelphia but the results when it comes to player development have definitely not lived up to the height so we'll see what the eagles due to replace him. Outside of that you may have heard on the Cuba Scotia emergency show last week about the micro and Carson Waltz canning canning that I wanted. LSU passing game coordinator. Joe Brady in Philadelphia helped to Redo and rebuild that passing game from the ground up and make one of the best offenses. This is of all time in college. Football turns out as mark already alluded to he is headed to the NFL. But not in the manner. I was hoping For as the Carolina Panthers have brought him aboard I I think a big determining factor for Brady was not only the money which is always nice but also he's been given a chance to pick his staff from out rule which is something that Philadelphia was likely not able all to offer with guys like do Staley and just outlined on board so the search for the Eagles offense coordinator continues of course if we hear anything on our side we'll have you covered Glean Grenada Dot Com. And on this as well so make sure that you've already smashed as subscribe button to get all the content as it drops also follow at BG and underscore radio on twitter in other news. Me and Benjamin Sollac have been at the shrine game practices this week. Ben Noticed that former Eagle car borrowing was there hang around with eagles. Vp Yeah player personnel. Andy ytl which could suggest that he's going to be taking some sort of role with the Eagles Front office. Also during the practices themselves a quick scouting note for me. You and me and Ben will likely talk about this later in the week but I came there with an eye towards Boise state wide receiver. John Hightower who has an intriguing skill set. I'll tell you this. Everything looked great before where the ball got there. He was getting open it will. He has a real juice and explosiveness to his game looks to be a threat with the ball in his hands but at one point he had something like three straight drops. That's a bit of a turn turn off But still important if he rebounds throughout the week and then at the game as well I know Dan Burglar of the athletic had top one hundred big board coming into this week so watch out for him. I'm in the shrine game on Saturday because he'll get some opportunities and if the installs told me anything he'll probably get a chance at a reverse. So you'll see how he operates in space all right mark Any thoughts on the the Brady hiring before we start to talk about some of these These playoff matchups. Wha- what do you think he can bring to Carolina do you think it was the determining factor actor Pram like. Hey I can punch my ticket. Whoever I like right now I want to pick my own staff kind of deal now? I probably think so. And what's going to be interesting to see is if you you look at. LSU's offense and I'm not an expert. Seth Galena our mutual friend could probably do it much better than about try. But they're passing game was basically a lot of west coast stuff as you might expect. Give his his background with the New Orleans saints some simplified running concepts and both zone and the gap in power scheme games at so it certainly worked it was almost revolutionary innocence atlas you Lsu. Now you're thinking destination for quarterbacks you wouldn't have said that's a five three two years ago but now it certainly seems that way with the often say installed but how effective is it going to be at the next level. You know it's one thing when you see in new and different stuff and a new approach working on the college game might not work in the NFC self. So we'll see how that plays out. But I am curious to see what they do at the quarterback position right because they have a decision to make draft side. What they're GONNA do Cam Newton to bring them back to the not bring them back? Do they draft a quarterback. This class Matt rule has said he liked will greer obviously coached against them in the big twelve. So you wonder if they're gonNA try to ride with will greer do the draft if somebody in his group so we'll be curious how that plays out but I do think the determining factor for Brady was. I can write my ticket now. I got my own staff the people that I wanNA play around with the people that I trust trust. People know what we're GonNa do we all the same direction. I'm sure he's overjoyed at the thought of working with a Christian McCaffrey you can imagine. No pitcher Alvin Kamara. What what he's been in New Orleans? You're truly going to see that. Even though Christian McCaffrey put up incredible numbers this year by stock at him. Now if you can sort of fantasy hennessy terms because he should be in a good position to succeed next year in this offense yeah I agree and it is interesting to see if the LSU offense will in fact translate to the NFL. I mean there's there's a ton of slot phase that they are running venables is bringing blitzes and they had one on one. And you can. You can run at tennis Lotfi. When you have a quarterback that can throw it's leverage like Joe Borough can burrow obviously going to be the number one check to we talk about borough for a minute is? He's so cool under pressure. His pocket management is is awareness. His touch like a people are GonNa Complain About Him. Not having a huge arm but like there's not a throw that he really can't make any makes up for it with accuracy placement touch all of those things. He's incredible I don't do comps. I hate combat it calms but if you if you watch that national championship game and don't come away thinking that he could be an athletic brady. Then we're watching different games. I need you see the placement. Like the he missed some throws a met game shore but for the most part placement is one of his calling. Cards is a quarterback. You Watch film you watch them on tape. You see like incredible credible ball placement but the pocket movement for whether it's with athleticism and really sort of extended or if it's just the little subtle shifted and moving in the pocket that's incredible. You WanNa talk about footwork. Watch him run an RPO play where he has to open left and then throw back to the right to the laughing. Blake to see him. Flip the feet. Derek Clawson. Who covers quarterbacks does really good work for Rhode Awards other places he was doing a job? Ro thread I believe it was Tuesday on twitter and basically said he's always ready to throw his feet are always ready to throw at it so accurate. He is always in a throw in position whether he's statuesque in the pocket opening up on an RPO type design or even moving around the pocket where he's going to run for his life. He is always ready ready to throw at one final note on him. The swag the audience the Moss. Whatever you WANNA call it man like the kid has it? Yeah and the image and the gift of Ham with the Cigar with a big Dick Joe had in his lap just given the little nod to somebody off camera. I mean I'm getting goosebumps. Just just pitcher that you're not just talking about it. He's like Nemeth. I mean he's like Nemeth and Brady and roads Joe Cool of the twenty first century. Really Cincy don't ruin this kid please. Don't ruin this kid because he could be special. I think also don't trade back with the panthers don't fall for it. Don't Oh no don't fall for Michael Mico said this. Yesterday we have three or four months of Carolina trade up rumors ahead of ourselves. Yeah and it's GonNa that'd be miserable and it's GonNa be infuriated so just know that they're coming and put him out of your mind because if you're Cincinnati you. Somebody's next fifteen. First round picks six stadium naming rights. I born the the law of surprises. Like throw it all into the package because that's what you need to get out of one and give up the rights to draft you you borrow- in a so. We're going to follow those rumors as they are sure to happen. Kim One hundred percent as we go through this draft process before we get to more draft talk. I wanted to talk about some of these playoff quarterbacks quarterbacks I think I'll frame it this way for your mark so you got packers forty niners you got titans chief. So you've got Aaron Rodgers against Jimmy Jimmy Garoppolo you've got why will said Marcus Mariota. With how sad was that him going back to the locker room trying for bike. That was awful sold. It's like that Simpson's moment. When barks like showing Lisa would Ralph's heartbreaker like look? If if you pause it gives you the exact moment of his heart breaks off so Ryan Tannehill Tannehill against Patrick Mahomes will start with the NFC. Who's playing the best ball right now? Between Aaron Rodgers and Jimmy G. because eras had kind of an up and down season installing new offense as we thought there would be some struggles early on they never figured out. I thought Leflore was absolutely fire against the Seattle seahawks and his game plan. Rogers had one of his best games of of the season. But Jimmy D has been doing his thing all season and shut up all the doubters about things playing the best ball right now. I think Rogers had the better game last week. I think Zayd Garoppolo has had the more consistent season. Yeah you know and I think that's a fair way to put it and it was interesting. I was on radio on radio every Wednesday night out brisk Vancouver British Columbia and I was asked to sort of a similar question of we by AMIC Rogers and a wall. I said at the time before this game it feels almost sacrilegious to say but no I wasn't going in because they had been inconsistent assistant whether you want to go as far say that in the most fraudulent thirteen and three team in history. I don't go that far. But Rogers had is up and down moments but he had you know a vintage Aaron Rodgers type performance like you said matlock floor was fantastic that little fake rub slant to Davante Adams a slanted go. That's just nasty man. That's just unfair that I mean. That was a beautifully crafted. Clay Rogers had sort of one of his vintage performances. He's going to need another one because look that forty dollars defense. They you could get after you know I. I wrote a piece for pro football weekly. I don't know if it's up yet but broke down off of their sacks when their previous meet him back in week twelve and they were doing it with four. They were doing it but five they're doing it blitz. They used one of those rain. blitzes where they mugged a gaps and Rogers rettig ray blitz for those that don't know you put both linebackers occurs in the air gap and both are tasked with blitzen. But they've read the center and if the Senate turns to you you pop out and look for the hot at if the center turns away from you. That's when you blessed. And so they did that and the guy that popped out I think it was warner was either water greenlaw. They got under the hot route from Jimmy. Graham Rogers read it looked looked at it. GRANDMAS are looking for the ball and he ran out of time it so Robert Soleil. That defense has an answer for what Rogers has shown so far this season and they will pressure him they will frustrate him. I don't know San Francisco. San Francisco Loses. Game is what I'm trying to say. Is I think that this defense defense for the forty niners is playing well and to Garoppolo. I mean tell me if you disagree. Here is being good on his plate. Good enough you know. He's been consistent. He's played good enough that defense. It's I think they'll be okay and they'll win this one and finding their way to Miami. I think I have more trust in the forty niners to number one scheme appreciate a hand. You know you know he's going to be great the a defense. I think they just had the stronger team that the actors are going to need like. You said another fantastic performance at Rogers. Has It really strong these together throughout the season. So that's where I have some of my concerns. We'll see when the bright lights come on in showtime the NFC championship game which one prevails. But I think and put my money on the forty niners. What about the The AFC we've got Ryan Tannehill Hill. And Patrick Mahomes. I mean Ryan Tannehill. Hasn't had to do a whole lot because the defenses but the offense in a position to succeed the running game has been fantastic when it comes to closing closing games out when Tanny all has had to make some throws though he's been able to make those throws and I think he's been very underrated this season. I think people that have been knocking. You know different metrics that that rate tannehill in highly just haven't seen tannehill and that's a product of the titans not having any primetime games this year people haven't had a lot of exposure to tannehill and he really hasn't had a lot of exposure to Tena Hill in the playoffs playoffs because he hasn't had to throw much now if he has to. We'll see what he can do against the defense. But I think Patrick Mahomes show the world that Hey I'm still Patrick mahomes buddy After going down. Twenty four to nothing to the Texans and leading a comeback beal fifty one to circuit run which is just absolutely insane. The Guy Played on his head unconscious. which is what do you think about these two quarterbacks amount and how they match up I mean look if Ryan Tannehill can beat Brady Lamar and Mahal on the road like it's? It's hard to imagine a tougher murderers row of quarterbacks and different quarterbacks right and maybe this is more to the Tennessee titans have done defensively pensively but if they can sort of pull that off that that would be the stuff of legends. It's hard to imagine though I mean as good as Tennessee has been playing. They've now been in the playoffs. Since thanksgiving given basically and so at some point it starts to wear on you a bit and Mahomes is magical. I mean you would have thought a twenty four nothing that team could impact it in and it looks like it was going away from them but you saw him alms on the sideline you shop staying upbeat. That team can score in a blink of an eye and they did dad against the Texans on Sunday. Their defense is planned well too and there was a fascinating play. I forget who put it out. It might have been South Kaiser. Who covers the? She's the athletic. I think it was put out a tweet of Tire Matthew show and blitz drop it under the first hot read. Get it over to watch a second raid and taken that away edlund chasing him out of bounds all on the same play. It's incredible and so this chiefs defense despite giving up some points early and part of the more turnovers and things like that. That defense is playing. Well we know what the offense can do. They can score points in bunches and where Baltimore when the Mara Struggle. That offense couldn't piece it together. Brady and that offense. They couldn't score. Kids city is going to score. You know at Tennessee is a bill to win a shootout Tennessee really grind this game enough. I don't think so not this one. What about you? Yeah I'm kind of I think back to a college Game the Ohio State Wisconsin game where Jim Leonard. The defensive coordinator air for the badgers coached up up. Beauty in the first half. Wisconsin has a lead twenty one to seven but you go into halftime and I was thinking to myself. There's no way as good as your scheme is and I think Dean Pees Defensive Coordinator for the Titans is supremely underrated not talked by the national media. I think is fantastic. But there's going to come a point where Ohio state's going to score. There is going to come a point where Kansas City is going to score. You can only hold them for so long long. So Wisconsin went in twenty one to seven and they let the game at thirty four to twenty one with a high of stayed on top. I feel like this game could have a similar arc. No no state. No lead has been safe in these playoffs. Really except for the packers wanted even that was in doubt at the end. But I could see that definitely because there's only so much you can do to slow down mahomes there's right and unless you're converting all the time unless you're running game is absolutely bumping and you win. The time of possession battle like forty five to fifteen. It still might not be enough. The Kansas City is yeah we saw this last year that regular season game and even the playoff game between the Patriots and the chiefs those teams who scored like twenty eight points combined. You like five minutes at the end of both of those games stuff happened in the blink of an eye like I remember the regular season gave the Patriots took the lead. And then the very next play eighty yard touchdown around and it's like they can score from anywhere on the field the other point out. What a bill? Brian say this week they felt like they needed to get thirty five to win. Right now begs the question. Why you're kicking? You feel goals early when he did. But putting that aside for a second. Tennessee built to put up thirty five. Not I don't think they are and if O'Brien's right about that which I think Nikki is Makes it hard to see. Tennessee witnessed one. That's a good point. Yeah I got Kansas City in this one but it would be crazy to see cry at Tannehill. Take down to top up to three top tier quarterbacks in the NFL. A ratchet this yeah you get titans packers super bowl that it tannehill goes brady. Lamar mahomes rogers like like like. That's the ultimate like bad guy level right. Yeah that's what you see like all the with the boss man. It's David and Goliath. Just the various various giants older. It over and over again. Bright Danielle all right. So when we come back we're GONNA talk about some of these senior bowl quarterbacks. That would be watching live in mobile next week. That's coming up next here on the QB's go show. I'm Songwriter Charlie. 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How Popular Music Works and why it matters at your favorite bookseller thanks I'm Jillian Weinberger. Who's to the impact? A podcast from vox about how powerful people affect the rest of us this season. We're looking at the big ideas from all the people running for President in twenty twenty hip this opioid crisis head on public option. Move Away from muscle fulfilled to energy efficiency. And it's GonNa be a Great Wall and it's going to work. A lot of those ideas have actually been tried before like that wall trump wants to build the gallows was there is GonNa has had one on its border for decades. I don't understand why individual people have a right to have a fence and yet a country can't Senator Warren's proposal to end the OPIOID crisis it's based on what we did to fight the AIDS epidemic. We would. We'd like to name it the Ryan White Care Act and the green new deal. Germany tried something similar in two thousand. This solution this season on the impact. We have at those stories. How the big ideas from twenty twenty candidates worked or didn't work in other places or at other times? These are the stories that will help us understand what might happen if these proposals get rolled out here in the next four years. Subscribe to the impact on Apple podcasts. Or your your favorite podcast APP to get new episodes now and we are back here on the QB so show episode forty-nine espionage and bleeding nation. Michael Cast here with Mark Scofield and mark. Look at the senior bowl quarterbacks that we have to talk about out here it's it's it can be eagles related to because I'll tell you what they have to make a decision on Southfield. Is Josh Cowan. Going back or he's going to be a coaching role. Is it gonNA retire. I go to the media via whatever. He's GonNa do a backup quarterback position very important for the eagles. They tried to take a swing on his senior bowl quarterback last year that both of us hate it. Clayton Thorson. Yeah we had A. Ah Lots of other choices. We would have liked ahead of him. So maybe that you got shot at Gardner mentioned for example was the guy that we pound the table for they. Can we see that. He was a heck of a lot better than if he slayed. Nick foles so what else do you want So let's take a look at the yearbook. quarterbacks kind of what the League is going to be looking for them obviously the big name right now is Justin. Herbert out of Oregon jalen hurts us at an interesting college career. But I'm not sold on him as has as a pro quarterback one guy that we don't like but we're hearing that a certain team wants him invited and that's why they're Patterson for Michigan Eagles. Stay away way I think. That's I Clayton Thorson. Yeah for this year But a lot of different names first off. What are these coaching staffs looking from quarterbacks back at the senior bowl because it said that you cannot hurt yourself during the week? You can only help yourself. Is that true yeah. I think that's enlarge true. I mean part of what will be able to see stuff they're looking for. They want us to get better over the week. That Wanna see them adapt to sort of coach and they wanna see them. No learn some of the concepts that will be new for a lot of these guys. Take for example Anthony Gordon in Washington state. Who by the way I absolutely love? Because he's part insane and I said this on twitter justice mosquitoes get our good friend. Justo put out a tweet while I've thought about it a lot. You know we're seeing guys like mahomes and Watson and others in the League right now. The grew up idolizing farve. And we're going to be blessed awesome. Great and fun quarterback play as a result. The guys grow idolizes Montana like Brady and others in Rivers. They're phasing out of the League. You know the board safe ball control type stuff now. Now we're getting kids that WANNA be mahomes and there's a great play that I put on the time of Anthony Gordon. Try to throw a wide-open cross around in the middle of the field with nobody to look off at he tries to know. Look at and misses by Ted feet right at. It's funny it's hilarious. But he does this he when you watch him you will come away thinking this kid wants to be mahomes and and sometimes it works and so he's a lot of fun but he's never taken a staff from under center you know he's worked with sage rosenfels right now on doing things like that so they're gonna WanNa see these guys. I sort of adapt to more of an NFL style of play. You know they're gonNA WANNA see. Can they make some reads one. The defenses are going to be showing them different looks than they song Song College. You know a lot of these guys you know. They're seeing you know it's cover to cover three some matched up some cover seven bracket and cutting things like that. But they're not spending it. They're really showing you what it is and they stay in it now you're gonna see rotated coverage that you're gonNA see spun safeties and it's GonNa be new. How quickly can they pick stuff up like like that up? How quickly can they sort of speed up their processing speed as a result the two guys that I think people will be the most excited to see Justin Harbor Jordan love? Yup I mean these are guys that have absolute cannons for an arm. I mean Herbert's throw and back shoulder throws forty fifty yards downfield. I mean love's GonNa Absolute Hose as well jalen hurts is interesting A lot of people WANNA say oh. He's the next Lamar. He's not like they have completely different styles of play. They're completely different runners. They're completely different from passers and throwers. I think Lamar was a much more advanced pocket. Passer than Jaylen hearts is right now but hurts does a nice deep ball He can do some things that I think are nice. And he's certainly developmental style quarterback. Then you know I like Anthony Gordon Allott and so those four guys. I'm really excited to see that. He gets shape Patterson. He's a a quarterback. And then you get Steven one from Colorado. And he's an interesting prospect. That was well d three developmental type. That's the six right now. You were in a bit of a holding pattern I think this is going to crystallize over the next twenty four hours. It does seem like boroughs. Not GonNa go right. You know that you nagy wants him there you know. Oh the bengals want him there but he was telling Part of my part of my take while he was hunting over of course. Why wouldn't he be that you know? He tore or cartilage muscle or tourist rib cartilage late in the first half of that game against Clemson. I doubt he's GonNa go right. He's probably just going back to California because because let's face it the kids one he doesn't have to them right now and so you wonder if do they sit with six. Do they go to eight some names if they do decide to go to aid and enjo borough is at one of them. I'd say Brian The worke From Michigan State might be named to get into makes nate Stanley who I have a bit of a soft spot for. I think the kid slim ed I know he would be in the mix as well is our boy Cole. Has He graduated. Oh that's A. That's a good point because he did declare an even. If you're layered on under slash you've graduated you can go to the senior bowl at up if that's the case. And you don't get borough I would love to see Cole McDonald There Be Funny Matt. I mean Matt. Why don't they just call you because you did about a two hour? podcast with Matt Waldman this exactly right. That's exactly right. Did just do it to our podcast with Matt Waldman you know what's funny. Uh It's come full circle with coal bit because remember the summer our mutual friend Bryce Rossler. He was one of many on the train. We were there both as well all right behind Bryce. I'm not throwing completely under the bus because I'm throwing myself and you under there wouldn't but we liked coal and then people got off the train because he struggled a bit people are right circle. Back on Colbert on. I've seen more and more takes time on the past couple of days like this call McDonald Guy is pretty good. I've had some bears fans in the DM's uh-huh we know what bears fans all right now emotionally speaking and mentally speaking there. They've had a bit of a fall and winter. But they're asking me about coal McDonald ed. So there's there's a chance this kid could go to mobile get invited and sneak his way into early day three. He really kinda saved two season. Because I mean he ends up with thirty three touchdowns four interceptors interceptions and he had thrown what. Let's see. There's five eight nine fifty. He threw nine interceptions in the first four games and then after that it only had five more throughout the rest of the season he got better as the season wore on. But that starts at nine game start. That's what everybody was like rats fleeing the ship it was like no. I'm not gonNA work. Mad First. Game was four and four like that just a so that gave all roller coaster. It was an absolute roller coaster. It I was like man. This guy is great. Oh my God he threw a pick. Oh he's fantastic all he just threw another pick all over the place. So that's what I saw takes the tablet. Well maybe we shouldn't have anointed him. As is the next best quarterback. It's like nobody did that. Except for bryce right exactly I except for Bryce but the season with in the last three games he had seven touchdowns one interception Kevin Ends. The season was a sixty three point. Eight completion percentage. You really kind of turn things around towards the end of the season there. And then he's got his His Boya Rollo is coming towards in Washington State which soda. That's that's that's going to be It's going to be real five plus Mike Leach an SEC. Does I think there's a chance Cole all graduate transfers to do that which we do that getting now he's already declared Kenny resend. It like this. I think it's one of those things like as long as you don't hire an agent you rights do. I wonder if they if they've entertained that idea at all I want. I really wondered what the Draft Advisory Board told Cole about his draft grade to make him come out okay and if it's strong enough to where he would be like Maybe I should go back. Maybe I get a call from Rollo and we start. We go over to one year. The PAC twelve L. Planet gets better competition plan to manageable time zone for us on the East Coast. More exposure. Yeah more exposure. It could help them. I mean now it look we know. Trevor Lawrence is going to be one you know or at least potentially. QB One justin fields. Perhaps but to coming out like you could probably benefit if it from year. I don't know something to think about. Yeah I still WANNA see him in mobile though if I seem in mobile this I I. I'm talking to ask them about the sniper photo or oh I also got to talk to the kid there. I think there's a linebacker there. His name is Hammill car. which is yes? Hannibal's dad he doesn't know I read the story on it. He says he doesn't know where the name comes from. Apparently it's like a family name that they use a bunch of like do. Let me talk to this cat because book for the kid right exactly but you know how he pronounces Hamaoka which is a choice which is interesting thing. But we're GONNA talk about that mobile. We'll talk about that about the mark any closing the gentle listeners. Before we get out of you know just follow onto hijinks. Both Michael and I will be down in mobile. It's always a blast takes the time line. We'll hopefully do a show for mobile if not while you'll probably figure out why we did it and we'll just throw that out there but it's it's always great to catch up with people from the time line. It's always great to have your time. Line play out in real life advocates elsewhere and so it's so fun time but it's a business trip we will be doing work down there. We'll have some takes for you at some point here on the QB SCO show and everywhere else. You can see Mike about this love and love these four so that's going to do it for for the QB Scotia officer forty nine. Oh good time. We'll catch you next week in Mobile

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The QB Scho Show #1: Scouting Dak Prescott & RJ Ochoa Interview

Bleeding Green Nation

39:39 min | 2 years ago

The QB Scho Show #1: Scouting Dak Prescott & RJ Ochoa Interview

"They. Hi, this is Jim chica- our podcast step over will be ballers podcasts that work for all of your Sixers needs. Says game breakdowns with a course in headband and more subscribed. Liberty Bowers podcasts heathen, I tune Stitcher sparked by or ever you get your favorite podcasts. And check out the step over a podcast about Sixers basketball. Mostly. Welcome into the QB SCO show episode one brought to you by Espy nation and bleeding green nation. I on your host, Michael kissed. Follow me on Twitter at Michael kissed and fell on this show. Every week will be taken an in depth look at an EMMY quarterbacks where they win how they lose what to expect in upcoming games. It would not be the SCO show without my co host. Don't call him a QB expert because his face will contorts uncomfortably. But he knows his stuff from pro football weekly the score big blue view locked on patriots inside the pylon. He's my buddy. He's my pal. He's my own personal QB one. He's marsk go field. Mark. I am excited to be doing this new project with you. How you doing brother? I'm doing well my front I am excited as while ago. I'm hoping that this show has better runs than say the Michael Malley show, which the other generation might know was a short lived sitcom that ran for one episode. It was cancelled after seven days and to put it in terms of. You'll cruciate. I hope this has a better rain than say emperor of Italian. Ooh, who's rain at the end of the year of four emperors lasted just eight months ago. Mike, what has me a little concern is an emperor of a Tellus was known as lazy and self indulgent purse indulgent personality, he was a man who's fond of Eden and drank Indus. He was a glutton. He was rather obese would eat four banquets day, and as someone who spent time with me doubt in mobile, you know, I am also fond of eating drinking. So this this could be an emperor retaliates type rain, but we hope not here at this show app. Retaliate says bust like if you if you look him up on Google his bust is just he's like, the only one of the emperor's that just like they make it obvious that he's overweight. It's awesome. Got look like they don't hot it at all. This is what he was note for because he didn't do anything the guy sat ate and drank for eight months, and they were like all right. That's enough. Sounds amazing. That would be my so dowdy heck of rain follow Mark on Twitter. It's real base. Iq at Mark's go field and follow his work, and all these places that he writes for he does fantastic jobs. I of spinning plates and bringing detailed analysis on all teams and quarterbacks. And that's why we're doing this. I trust marks quarterback evaluations. Like, no other. And I look forward to breaking down these opposing quarterbacks talking about some Roman emperors, that's pretty dope. And here's why I lean on somebody like Mark to give me a better perspective because I truly believe that quarterback play is the most complicated hardest to learn least understood aspects of professional football and get it is the most talked about most popular most divisive subject matter in all of professional sports. And Mark I asked you the other day, but I'll ask you again here with what you know about the position, and how long you've been detailing stuff and even playing the position in college. How do you log on Twitter every day and see all of these misleading discussions surrounding the position and just not want to face plant yourself. Self into a toilet. Well, you're Sumer that I don't want to face plant myself into a toilet or vomit, Tori, number pulled fatales and just go eat for banquets Dade logoff from this website. We all know and love, but you don't part of it is quarterback play studying quarterback clay thinking about quarterbacks they're such an objective as well. As a subjective component to it. You know, you look at objective stuff like adjusted net yards per attempt. You could look at passer rating. You could look at air yards depth of target time to throw all these sort of objective numbers that are out there and say, you know, this is why quarterbacks good or bad. But there's also the subjective component as well. As commander component. You might say look a quarterbacks getting the bottom his hand so quickly. He's got to be great against the blitz. He's going to be fantastic. It's pressure the fastest guy. In terms of Tom to throw this year is Sam Bradford homes currently employed by as many NFL teams as I am. And so you can't just rely on peer numbers, you gotta dive into the tape. But when you do that. You've got to adjust for scheme. You've gotta just for the subjective components, for example, a guy that you, and I both know God that I do work with Matt Waldman. For example. He and I do show every month on quarterbacks we worked together over at the Matt Waldman RSP, we talk about quarterbacks all the time. Sometimes we'll sit down and just chat record acts on the phone because we're bored of were angry at the time line, which happens more often than people might expect. He and I've you quarterbacks differently. He prefers the the farve. The gunslinger types guys and can do stuff off structure, I know this year, for example, he's gonna love will Greer. Whereas I like the Brett ribbons now guys through the little things the guys that do the small things with their eyes with touch and intimidation and feel and make plays throat from the pocketed. So you have two guys right there myself, and Matt that spent way too much time thinking about studying quarterbacks and you'll get to different QB wants from them. And that's part of the reason why quarterback debates can often be just so unfruitful and almost annoying. Because there is a subjective. Component to guys have their preferences. Men and women have their preferences on how they want quarterbacks to play and what they want good quarterback to look like in how they operated and outside of the pocket that you just get widely divergent opinions. And then, of course, the other pinchers, which is so wild galaxy brain type things that we don't have to go into, but suffice to say there there are out there that have say Mitchell Trubisky as a higher ranked quarterback than Carson Wentz going into the season or opinions out there that may have a guy like Mesa of as the best quarterback prospect in the past ten years there are galaxy brain type of periods, which we just look at point. And we move on. Yeah. And we can talk about this for hours, and I really do. Enjoy listening to you. And Matt Waldman talk about that over there. Matt Waldman RSP. So if you guys haven't heard that yet go check that out as well. But we gotta dig into this eagles Cowboys a Sunday night football game big game. Mark. Let's get into Dak Prescott who will be the topic of this show. And I wanna look back before we look forward. So coming out of Mississippi State. He winds up as a fourth round selection one hundred thirty fifth overall takes by storms rookie year. We all know the story looking back on his career arc and your evaluation of him as a prospect. How would you say your expectations lined up with how everything has unfolded over the years for Prescott? Yeah. What's been fascinated? Michael about Prescott is an out say this upfront. I was not a fan. So put it mildly. He was QB nineteen for me in that class. He was behind Christian hackenberg in that class. And where I came on. It was when I studied him MRs Mississippi State, I saw a flaw that I thought was almost fatal with him. And that was one of ball placement. When you when you study quarterbacks, there are certain things, you can sort of overcome as you develop, you know, processing speed you can get faster reading defenses things like that. Y'all anticipation you start to learn how to get the ball out quicker that also comes hand in hand with processes beaten diagnosis fasten. But if you can't put the ball. Where needs to be. And I'm not talking like, you know, he's missing on post routes and put it on the Ron shoulder. Forty five yards downfield. I'll talk swin routes out of the backfield. The new force running backs to make judgments misses throws on quick out routes in you know, comeback routes where you're not putting where needs to be shows, you that you don't really understand the leverage that you see in from the secondary from underneath offenders in like that. If you don't put the ball where it needs to be. That's a hard thing to fix when you get to the NFL. And so that's why I was so down on him. Now like you said he had that incredible rookie year and v p rookie of the year type numbers. And so when you know after two years of each draft glass, I take a look back at my rank ins, and how I view some certain prospects. And while you might think that I'm doing it as a victory lap pace of Zach class where I had golf one wants to know, I was really sort of focused on. What did I miss on Prescott to have him have this sort of success more sort of came down on? And I had it in my notes was competitive toughness. You know, you people say what? Does that what does that mean? It's sort of that ability that you need is a quarterback to sort of fight through mistakes to get better to make mistakes in the first quarter. See a different look or even a slightly variation of that look later the game not make the same estate to learn from your mistakes from game to game drive to Dr staff to snap. Even and I had that in my notes on Prescott. But I missed way eight appropriately. And that's why probably the next draft class may be to wildly and the other direction and had to Shawn Watson Chevy one because of his competitive tougher you'll that that competitive tough is it sort of a loud him to improve on his ball placement is throwing his mechanics to a certain extent. Now, we're seeing some of that though, still rear its ugly head obviously last year, they had some protection problems and into this year. We're seeing that failure of ball placement coupled with a failure to properly -ticipant on throws, which is led to some struggles this year. So let's do some box course, counting on this year. The most misleading way to scout of them all. But Dak is completing sixty three percent of his. Passes a seven point zero yards per cent average ten touchdowns five interceptions. The last two years have not been kind to him. And last year was kind of an up and down affair where I thought he was solid in the first half of the season regressed in the second half and looking at this year to year. There's one staff that really stands out to me. And that is his ten point six percent Sakr as a career high for him by a lot and some of that you can put on the offensive line. There's no doubt about that. This is not the same unit as the two thousand sixteen unit and with the loss of Connor Williams this week, it looks even worse. But what I see when I watched Dak and we talked about this last night. And then you you watch him in week one against the Carolina Panthers and other weeks to but this one stands out because he took a season high six sacks. And anytime it seemed that the Panthers through games at him like a tackle index change. Dax saw the light in front of him and he sprinted right into that trap. And I asked Benjamin soul like about this earlier on another show on the kissing Solex show. And I've since watched more. Film. And I've kinda modified what my game plan would be if I'm Jim Schwartz. I'm not concerned about blitzing Dak to get pressure. But what I might do is. I might throw in some stunts to his ball hand side show him a window in which to escape the pocket because we know he likes to hold onto the ball longer than a lot of the quarterbacks but bait him with that escape window, and then when that stunt runs its course or your closing it right back up. So essentially let Dak come to you like a moth to a flame. Do you? See a similar thing. When you watch Prescott in regard to his pocket awareness and it leading to unnecessary sacks. Absolutely. And I it's sort of almost a natural progression. Or regression of things when you start having protection problems up front, and we remember last year Adrian clayborn got paid because he was basically up against turnstile that game against Lanta where he had six sacks against you know, their backup tackle when your quarterback. And you start getting pressured and you start getting flustered. You start getting moved off the slot quicker in a play that you'd like, but you're also an athletic quarterback. You're gonna do what muscle memory is going to take over at. You're gonna start relying on your legs to make plays and Prescott some athletic quarterback. And so what's happening is in that Carolina game is a perfect example because on two different occasions, he ran straight into sax on dual teed tight end, and or tax type stunts where you have those defensive tackle sort of looping around. And you see that see sort of part in front of a you think all this grass in front of me. I'm getting pressured. But here's a chance for me to pick yards legs. Not make throw not hold onto the football nugget hit and he's running right into the loopers as crash around. And that's you know to your point like moth to flame type situations. I don't think you need to glitz this kit. But I do think you gotta use twist games up front show mosquito Lynch because now he's in his own head. Now, he's into that mold. Where look I'm getting pressured? We can't protect. Let me I gotta make this happen with legs. I don't trust. What's happened in terms of block in front of me? If I see land, I'm gonna talk in a go. He's droppings is now and that's often away to get young passers to make mistakes because they're so afraid of getting sacked getting hit they drop their is they look for escape routes and that also leads to miss an opportunity down field. And now there's also a Scotland hand problem here, which we can get to that. But you know, I think your point about how you're going to attack cross God is more with four and five and twist games rather than six and seven blitz and plan covers aero cover one behind it kind of kind of in that same line when we talk about pressure in pressuring him. I might I'm by no means an expert when it comes to quarterback footwork. But what I see from Dak be personally is some frantic pocket movement that isn't conducive to being ready to throw after your initial move inside the pocket, and this is something Carson Wentz talked about in in the offseason regard. His improvement from your one to your too. And it was the first thing that stood out for me and Benjamin. So like when we watched him in the preseason in your to be ability to move within the pocket, whether it be hitching up or sliding to a side to move away from pressure and having your feet in a position to set up for a fundamentally sound throw right building on house from the foundation being your feet as I said Dak to me his feet are bit of a mess when he's forced off the spot. And even when he's not forced when he just moves if it's not a design roll out when he moves inside the pocket. He's late to set up to throw. I think it's causing some of that spike in sacks. And it's throwing off his accuracy. Would you agree with that tape, Mark? I would in the theme of Prescott right now is he is more off platform than on regardless of place situation pressure scheme, and has because of what we were just talking about when you're continually looking for an escape route and feeling that pressure. I've often acquainted pressure and a quarterback to those early. Rounds of a box and match when you Bank those body blows yet. It doesn't look great on the scorecard yet, you're not getting the knockout. But you're building that foundation for the later rounds when you've worn that guy down you've worked the body. And now you can finish him off. It's the same to pressure at a quarterback you get to him. Earl you get him off the spot. Then he changes from a mental perspective to the point where he's dropping his is his looking for escape routes, and then it translates to the footwork where if you're constantly off platform. You're not gonna make accurate throws. And look at that game Monday night. They had a great chance to put put one in the end zone. They call for play action play, and he makes his fading away. Back foot off his back foot like fadeaway throw into double coverage for an interception. Why because of all the stuff we've been talking about. And yes, he was pressured a little bit. But not enough we needed to make that throw. There was still enough room there to create space again, like a boxer creative space with your feet to make a fundamentally sound throwing who get more on it or. Or thrown out of the back of the end zone. But because of everything else he's so afraid of the pressure. He's still afraid that he might not get another opportunity that he makes the risky throw. And it's a pig, and that sort of changes the course of that game early keeping in line with you know, using his legs, and you alluded to Scotland hand before I suggested on the kisses Solex show utilizing play action more for a mobile quarterback. Like Dak who has to stand in deliver in front of a struggling offense of line. And he's having his own issues within that pocket. I also suggested weaponising his legs within structure in the read ocean game to bring some diversity to this offense and give the defense something extra to think about and respect is that the route that you think Dallas should go in his this is or more that they can do that. They aren't doing right now. Schematically to help Dak get back on track. Think about two in. Now, a third recent sort of play, callers and what they've done with quarterbacks to make the game easier for them make them more comfortable. On the help them out. And then to help them play better think last year, Andy Reid, Alex Smith. What does he do? They go to his playbook at the university of Utah to urban Meyer. Pose some stuff out of that stuff. He's comfortable running helps them feel better in the pocket. Alex Smith has basically a career year last year. Obviously he's now in Washington. But that's because he had padding homes come on look at Matt Nagy right now what Matt Nagy do Mitchell Trubisky. Whenever Trubisky starts struggle or sometimes even early in games. What is he do? Pose a little read option. Let's just a chance of pull the ball run around the edge. Get into the flow of the game get into the feel of the game of it it. Yeah. It works to keep the backside defensive end on us yet gives you an ice easy game. But it gets you quarterback comparable. And now just now Browns they fire. Hugh Jackson Lee fire Todd Haley, what have they done? They go to Baker Mayfield in the basically say what you want to run. What makes you comfortable? That's what you've got to do with your quarterback when he struggled. And so Scotland and needs to take his third thirteen. We're going to run all curls off of a seven step drop. And he needs to fire that page out of the playbook into the sun. Because I see it one more time and I'm a patriots fan. But if I see that one more time I'm getting on a flight it's going to be like Stuey when he saw will Farrell movie and he bought a plane ticket went to the airport flew cross country. Got the ladder. Ran the doorbell punched welfare on the face. 'cause that's what I'm going to Scotland hand if I see that all curls all sticks concept. One more time. You do our peo- stuff. You get them in the read option uses legs a little bit. You get him into the flow of the game. And you don't have to have a great ground game to be successful on play option. Book last year at Washington, Washington did not run the ball. Well, but they were one of the teams that made the biggest jump from non play action pass in place to play action pass and plays. Because just the mere fact that you change those I levels on the second and third of the fenders you can have success throwing the football. Get more play action involved. Get more RPO's evolve and take sticks concept out of the playbook. They will be much better off if they do that. If they don't will. Hey eagles. Redskins fans. Rejoice. What do you think is the ceiling for that Prescott? Do you think the ceiling is less? You some scouting academy verb cheer. We often talk about this on his kissing Solex show as far as tears, and you know, is the starter you win because of is the starter you win with or is he a starter that you win in spite of what do you believe his true ceiling to be an let's just put it within realistic expectations. Let's say say he takes a step forward. And that's consistent for him. Where do you think? He is as a player, I think he's more in that starter you win with not because of sort of tier, but a lot what you do a lot would have to go right for him schematically and for his own development for him to hit that is near that right now Yuk which is right now. I think he's more started that you need help. Yeah. If they do subvert than schematic like we were just talking about he's more than that started that you win was that, you know, in a certain game driver to you. He can put the offense on his shoulders, but he's not doing that week in week out. So I do think it will need to be some sort of deny. Element as well as some schematic assistance to get him to that point. If you'd asked me this question, you know, back in his rookie year. Our said yeah easily. He he's a guy that could always see him push into that starter, you would because of type tier, but we've seen some of the regression. And now what it becomes too is to where we started that competitive. Toughest did I miss that. Or not, you know, did I really miss that oil that inside of him still or is it was not really there. It was just kind of Mirages rookie season. And that British to our first point overall a breed of this whole in full circle here. Yeah. That's why it's so hard to talk about quarterbacks. That's why it's so hard to study quarterbacks because there's so much going on that even if you have the all twenty two or if you just alive football guy. No matter what your exposure is. You're not there all of the time. You know, no, truly what's going on in the skies head, and you might have the playbook. You might actually get your hands on a bootleg copy of Scotland has playbook, which is probably six pages. And you still won't know what's going on. Because it changes from draft. Dr play to play week to week adjustments whatsoever. That's why it's so hard because ultimately could break these guys down six ways to Sunday. But it's that muscle between the ears that is gonna determine so much of what happens with these guys when they hit the field that dovetailed beautifully. Mark. Widow would close it out. That was nice. If there's a reason that I don't know I don't get paid that much. But there's a reason that I actually make money doing this. And it's because it's because of the Todo takes I know it's because the say you're going to see Tono tonight as I go into C to- tonight. So if you do follow me on Twitter mutiny tonight. Okay. Just remembered me tomorrow. But I understand if you got him today. You know, when we saw the upside down Levy on bell tweet. I actually tweeted out a total lyric upside down at somebody legit, quote tweeted me, say muted, and it's like why just mute don't tell me you're gonna mute you just go ahead. New me like mutant blocked me. I don't care. Don't tell me. You're going to do is like the people that say, this is such a bad. Take on follow you now. Okay. Just do it. Tell me. We don't agree with terrorists because we are terrorists. That's exactly right. I'm gonna work. That's exactly right. So Mark before we go. Thank you so much for this. Actually, do you have a prediction for the game eagles Cowboys just wanna throw out there? I'll say this. I was on a radio show shortly after the Cooper trade was announced. I was asked you know, is this going to revitalize the offense is going to help Dak Prescott and asked is Amari Cooper going to be calling the place is she going to be decided up the row concepts. Is he put together the game scripts? Oh, it's it's not all those a will that I'm not expecting much. I'm understanding unless something has happened. I'm checking my producers now now Scotland ahead still the offense coordinator. So my prediction is the eagles gonna win this game. You know, because that's that's the problem right now would the offense. The schematic stuff is wrong. They do some stuff every now and again with RPO's and the read options though, come to slant flat. And suddenly Dak Prescott looks like a world beater because he's wanted something that my cat ran in high school. But I'd still they do some more stuff schematically. I don't see this office put enough points. And then you look at the eagles. You look Sean Lee down as long as you don't throw it anywhere near Byron Jones. I think you're gonna be okay. So yeah, right. I was gonna win this game. Yeah. I feel like they try to get back into a rhythm early much. Like they did against the titans was some slants, and they're gonna hit some curls and try to get him into a rhythm. And then everything's just gonna fall apart when they fall outside of that opening script because as you said, Linda hands playbook is super Super Bowl. Here's the other thing. Yes. Amari Cooper runs. Great double runs. Great slugger Ross. I'm sure. He goes fans word God, they had that against Tennessee. Dax route I ten yards out of bounds. And so how Many's Dak and hit right now. Right now, odd show us not that many Mark before we go. We have a special interview to run here with a homey from blog in the boys. He's the host of show alive. He's RJ Ocho. He is going to help us preview. This eagles Cowboys game from Dallas viewpoint. So Mark grabs rank maybe a spike seltzer, and let's kick it over to that right now. And we'll be right back. How you doing brother? I have been better. If I'm being honest. Things are things are all right in cowboy lion before we get into all that let the gentle listeners know RJ were they can find all of your excellent work. Well, I I am the man at blog on the boys dot com. You can certainly check us out over there. You could follow me on Twitter. I'm at our Joe show. Same handle on Instagram. If that's your thing not really a whole lot of bragging going on. So if you wanna come in soft now's the time, so RJ, let's talk about some larger themes before we dig into the minutia of this game much to the dismay of Cowboys fans recently Jerry Jones has said that he does not plan on making coaching change in season. However, he did say the same thing or similar thing about Wade Phillips about eight years ago, or so and did in fact, make a change. What are we to believe of this situation? What do you believe is the potential straw that breaks the camel's back in this because I would argue a lost Philadelphia that puts them at three and six would in fact, be that straw. Aw. Or am. I misunderstanding the whole landscape of the organization now, I think that you're fair, and you're certainly coming from a point of objectivity in point of logic. It was eight years ago. In fact, it was on November fifth that Jerry publicly backed way Phillips coincidentally he publicly back Jason Garrett on number fifth of this year. And it was later that week eight years ago when the Cowboys were on the road for a Sunday night football game, and they got roundhouse by one of the hot young quarterbacks in the NFL who was in his third season names Aaron Rodgers. So a lot of that sort of cosmic energy, obviously repeating with the Cowboys on the road this Sunday night against a high young quarterback with a Super Bowl championship already in his third season. I I have to believe that if the Cowboys just got I mean, just absolutely destroyed by the goals that some sort of change would happen. I think that might be the final sort of life out of the nine from eighty Scotland a hand, but it does seem like maybe Jerry is determined to. Ride this Jason Garrett thing at the very least to the end of the season. That's sort of the the sense invited. I've gotten all season Boca and moving on from that Jerry Jones has also stated that Dak Prescott would get extended. It's no secret that Dak has struggled how his drop in plays may be due to a lack of weapons up until at least the recent acquisition of Amari Cooper. Also, he's dealing with the banged up offense of line that has severely regressed in the past couple of years, and then he's also dealing with what I see as a Fanilo on imaginative offense of scheme. So with all of that qualified. What's the feeling in Dallas about a doc extension and his play to this point in season? Well, obviously, I think the dollar's around hypothetical extension with dictate how everybody felt if if that gets relatively fair backup quarterback even starting quarterback money in the NFL. I think you know, it's it's not the worst thing in the world. And that's sort of where I took Jerry's common. I think Jerry was kind of flexing. I it really felt like a frustrated sort of response by him. Like, hey, everybody. Remember, I I run this team. I call the shots, etc. But I think the consensus on is that he certainly regressed largely in part due to whatever coaching whatever advice he's gotten from Scotland a hand or whoever it may be, you know, I think it's important. Also qualify vacs quarterbacks. Coach is Kellen Moore who he'd beat out for the job that he currently holds which is just an absurd thing that in a season with so much dependent on the Cowboys relegated so much trust on more. But I think you know, what you're saying this fair the count was offensive line hasn't been the unit that it's been in seasons past they do not have a Marku who certainly has inspired some confidence. They don't have the run game going to the level that that has had typically over the course of his career so far and the man of top seems to have his fair. Share question marks at minimum Jason Garrett. So I think everybody. Inclined to give that a pass under a new head coach new offense coordinator and hope that there's some sort of Jared Goff affects under Sean McVeigh by right right about now. That's all everybody has the Clinton too. So full disclosure. I think Amari Cooper put on a terrific display of route running in his debut for the Cowboys, obviously wasn't enough only fourteen points from the offense. But Howard Dallas fans feeling about giving up a first round pick that just became a little more expensive with this loss of titans while I think that when you look at what Mark did on Monday night. And granted it was only one game. I think he played very well. And I think that if you're looking for anything to be excited about it, certainly Mark Cooper. And I think that in a vacuum Amari Cooper played like he was worth a first round draft pick. If that makes sense, but it just it's a lot harder to swallow is just a bigger pill that you have to swallow with the way the couch was on the with coaching situation is in the way that 'cause played. And so while you can demolish that Amari has played like he's worth that price. You can also at the. Same time acknowledge that it's just it's hard to it's hard to live with it's hard to deal with. And so I think that's the the rock and a hard place that Cowboys fans have found themselves stuck between. But you know, at this point, you kind of just have to power through because of the deals been done. And I'll tell you this as an eagles fan. I would much prefer the first round pick as as it was for the two thousand eighteen pick on the field and Amari Cooper, right now, obviously picks play. But maybe that helps them maybe doesn't get back into contention in the NFC east. Let's flip it over to the defense. RJ is the loss of linebacker, Sean Lee to a hamstring injury being overstated right now with the maybe with the national media with the emergence of both Jalen Smith and rookie late invent rush. You know, I think that Sean Lee might be in the middle of his last season as Dallas cowboy as unfortunate is that is he's for a long time. Now been the Tony Romo of that side of the ball. And you're right. I mean late Vander has kind of Prescott at him while late night. I don't think had his best game on Monday night against the titans. He strongly proven over the course of the first half of the season that he's somebody that you can be excited about you know, late and was that everybody chastise than is. But really excited about right now. But when you have Layton, and Jalen Smith, you know, I talked about on my podcast on on Wednesday asked people what they thought was the the most stable position group on the Cowboys and they said the linebacker group. And I think that that's fair when you look at the town that they have just between those two players. So looking at the defense as a whole RJ where would you say they win as an unit? What's their biggest strength while DeMarcus Lawrence is certainly the warned that that the Jerry Jones's clamored for for a long time. And I would say they win win. He wins. If that makes sense. Yeah. You know, when DaMarcus Sam degenerate pressure, obviously things are a whole lot easier for everybody involved, and it's a lot harder for DeMarcus to generate that kind of pressure when David Irving's out when Andy Gregory's out and that happened on Monday night against the titans. Cowboys when they're down to just DeMarcus Lawrence while. Yes, see can be superstar for them. They don't have enough help outside of him. It sort of deck Prestat affect if you will. And so I think Byron Jones has just played Adam his mind. He's somebody always fans are so proud of this season with the switch to corner, and I should mention that that kind of inspires hope for that Prescott that that Chris Rashard comes in. And right away says this guy's a corner and all of a sudden he's beast hoping that that could have with that Prescott to some degree. But I think the Cowboys win defensively when DeMarcus Lawrence has to get home to some degree because then Jalen Smith is able to do his thing and letting Vander she's able to cover. He's so flexible in the middle of the fence, and then you've got by John CENA things on the outside. So far this season. Surprisingly safety hasn't been the achilles heel that people anticipated. It would be it certainly hasn't been a point of strength. But it isn't killing the Cowboys, which is cool at least for now. Would you say that that's their biggest weakness or something that they have? To maybe hide the most I think so at times, certainly, I think, you know, Monday night. I would have said it was anybody not named DeMarcus Lawrence. But but yeah, I mean, it it certainly is a week or point not quite an achilles heel. But I would say like like underneath thicker hamster like I would hate to get punched. You know, what I mean something like that? All right. So let's let's get into some predictions for the game. Here. The eagles are at home. They are seven and a half point favorites. So a little bit over a touchdown. Do the Cowboys high are really wanna put you on the spot and say straight up, but I'm gonna give you I'm gonna give you an out our nisei do the Cowboys at least cover the seven half, seven and a half point spread. And do you want them to or do you want this to be a blow out? So you may get a coaching change that that is obviously going to have to happen if not now probably, you know, sooner than later, you know, I've never been somebody that has subscribed to the ladder logic fair. You know? Help help just get embarrassed. Whatever if the Cowboys ended up when in four games on the season. And this was the last one, it would be awesome. It would be great to get. This is still a rivalry. I can imagine you'd never wanna lose to the eagles. So I I completely understand that like Iran to take do it after this week. Right. Exactly. And I will say also I've said this a lot believe I said this last time, I was on your show. This is the first game of significance for the Cowboys in Philadelphia since Tony Romo broke his collarbone there twenty fifteen because the two-game since both teams have had everything Clinton with a one c etc. Was weeks teen? It's also the first game for the Cowboys in Philadelphia that there's a Super Bowl banner hanging at the link. It's also golden Tate's debut. This is really only the third true sort of Dak versus Wenski more getting you know, in feels like which seems so many, but we really haven't. And so from just a narrative standpoint I'd love to see the Cowboys win. But I'll say office straight up. I don't think the Cowboys. Win. I don't think they cover. I don't think the Cowboys are anywhere near the same team that the eagles are. And that's because the eagles are are struggling just a bit. But coming off their bye with golden Tate in all the energy. He's gonna bring he caught all eight of his targets from at Stafford when the Cowboys play the lines, and we four and in wearing the black jerseys. I think that's appropriate. I mean, and I know that sounds kind of silly. But I really do believe in that type of stuff I believe that if there's a team, and I hate to give the so much credit. But if there is a single team that can smell the blood in the water when it comes specifically to the Cowboys. It's the eagles. The eagles are the perfect team to drive a nail in the Cowboys coffin, and and I really believe sort of wearing a black uniforms, and and kind of treating it like a couch general, if you will is something that that works for Phillies something that you know, has caused us a lot of pain. And so I don't think the Cowboys. I I do think this might be kind of close in acute way at halftime. And I think the third quarter. They just blow the doors off the Cowboys. And I think the fourth quarter is just a party in Philadelphia. Yeah. And that was kind of the first meeting before with the Cowboys and the eagles last year was a week eleven were that was the case was close at half. The Cowboys actually had a lead at half. And then the believe it was nine two seven at halftime. And that actually that was denied the Jerry Jones was celebrated for entering the hall of fame stadium. And that was actually the worst loss ever at eighteen to sit him by the Dallas Cowboys amazing so RJ before the season. You had predicted last question for you had you had predicted that the Philadelphia Eagles would be first in the division. The Dallas Cowboys would be second gun to your head who wins the NFC east this year. I'll say gun to my head and hopefully have time to sort of top assassin here that I think the Philadelphia Eagles are the best team in the NFC that truly believe that. And I think that if they played the Washington Redskins a hundred times they would win ninety six of those games. But I think the Redskins are just positioned better right now. They're already sitting on five wins. This play the giants play the bucks to play the Cowboys. Instead of the real nice forum. Yeah, they still play the titans and granted the times beat both of our teams. But so I just I don't envision a world where Washington as many problems in his injuries as they have. I can't see them not getting to ten wins. And I don't know that Philly can get there. As talented is Philly is and I do think they'll they'll beat the Cowboys both times that they play us. But I believe he's still play the Rams and played the saints. I I just I don't know. That's that's a really tough sort of thing to draw right now done to my head say Redskins. But I'm I'm not personally confident. I would definitely if if I had to bet I would bet on the eagles just because they they've run the right to do this people bet plummet RJ remind the gentle listeners one more time where they can find all of your work blogging. The boys dot com is where I live on the interwebs, and you can hit me up on Twitter at our Joa RJ. Thanks for stopping by man. I appreciate you and time, and we are back Mark, the QB SCO show episode one is in the books was it has painful as you thought it would be it wasn't as painful as I thought it was going to be. I mean, actually, you know, what I'm going to quote from a movie PC, you you remember that movie. It was actually that was actually about where I went to college believe it or not that was about Wesleyan university where actually played football you? Remember that dream secrets gunner was going to like become a supreme court Justice. And he was like asked by one of the, you know, senators, did you we want to thank you for coming in. I knew it would be bad. I do not know it would be this bad. And then all of a sudden this pothead friends or like showing up and he's I didn't ex- hail. Now. I'm reminded of that moment right now. Those a strange reference we've been all over the place. I mean, I hopefully will join like we've talked Todo we've talked Roman emperors. We talked the Michael. Ali show, which probably hasn't been referenced by a human being outside of the Mike O'Malley and probably inside the Michael Malley household for the past these. Yeah. World loading this lives yet family guides everywhere. Do you have a strong close in mind like like like a catchphrase or just sort of fading away right here? I mean, I think given my background and my exploits on and off the Twitter's probably just faded away in faded out of existence was probably be the way to close this thing out. But that's just my thought. I mean, I think we could just ask people to turn on the lights, and let us hang around a little bit longer than we should. So it's like visa. Meal own was it another bar? I always forget that. Yeah. The second the mythic scissor second bar of the night, which is just feeds when they turn the lights on. So if somehow you enjoyed the show Goto tunes, give us five stars subscribe to bleeding greed nation. Thank you again, Mark. We're just gonna shut this sucker down man hit the music. Hello. I'm Spencer home from SP nation. And I want to tell you about my new show. It seemed smart. It seems mart as a show about people doing things that for some reason or another seem smart at the time. Those things might include doing a little cocaine and driving a bike up mountain or I don't know maybe racing one hundred miles per hour across the country in the middle of the night with no one's permission or even stealing a bat from an empire is room in a major league baseball park, check it out. And if you like it Tele friend, I'm Spencer hall. Don't do anything smart.

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'Valentine's Views' podcast: RSP's Matt Waldman champions a different QB

Big Blue View

1:04:06 hr | 1 year ago

'Valentine's Views' podcast: RSP's Matt Waldman champions a different QB

"Hey listeners we're in the heat of one of the greatest sports events of the year. You guessed it March madness. And the best place to stay on top of all the NCAA tournament. Coverage CBS sports H Q, what is CBS forte JR. Q. It is the free twenty four hour sports network. That's built for fans. Just like you from nonstop highlights to news and analysis. CBS sports HQ has got you covered checkout. CBS sports HQ. It is always on always free not to pay subscription fee or have an expensive cable package. Download the CBS sports app on your phone fire TV Roku or apple TV start watching today. Welcome to another edition of the Valentine's views podcast giants fans. I'm your host Ed van ton. And on today's show. We are going to focus on a topic that no one in giants land cares about these days that no one cared about for the last couple of years. We're going to focus on the quarterback topic. And to to help us with that. I'm going to bring in special guest. Matt waldman. One of the most knowledgeable quarterback people that I know and met joins us right now. How you do in Matt. I'm doing great, Ed. Thanks for having me on again. I heard you kind of chuckle there in the background when I said no giants fan cares about quarterback. Yeah. Well, you know, I appreciate your sense of humor. Well, you know, nobody. I mean, I'm not a comedian. But we gotta try to have some fun around here. Really? You know, exactly. And hopefully, we'll have a good have a good time talking about these prospects. Because even though this is not seen as the most amazing class out there. There's some interesting players who could develop I know in you know. You know, Mark Scofield does some work for me. He does some work for you. And he's been going through some of these guys. So we're you know, we're for us. So we're familiar with them a little bit. But I, you know, to be honest with you, I gotta get someone else's take other than marks because I'm really tired of of Mark kneeling at the altar of Brett Rippin. Well, you know, Mark is a great guy. So he's fund the also poke fun at as well. And and he you know, he doesn't credibly strong work as a quarterback on an analyst. And so it's it's kind of funny because y- you may find that if we get on that topic of Brett Rippin that I may actually also be on that bandwagon. But but I don't but Marc has definitely milled the mill the wood and built the built the wagon. So I you know, we can leave it at that. So so so let's start here. The the giants brain trust. Obviously, they the giants have the sixth overall pick. We hear Dave Gettleman talk a lot about value. We hear Pat Shurmur talk about it. We hear John Mero talk about you know. Yes, we wanna quarterback. Yes. We wanna follow the, quote, unquote, Kansas City model and all of that. And yet we want value at the sixth pick. If it's Dwayne Haskins or drew lock which are the two guys that would be considered at six if they're still on the board is that value in your mind or are those guys who who in an ideal world just wouldn't be going that early in a draft. Yeah. I don't think it's value to get those guys. I think you can get better. A better prospect later may be better prospects plural later as maybe the second round if they have I haven't kept track for the giants second round pick. But if they do in the early second round, or they can trade up into the end of the first round than I think they may be getting value at that position there because Haskins unlock Haskins I would prefer over lock. And I think he might be worth that pick. The problem is we know he's only played one year. And that inexperience is is not. Not so much because he hasn't played a lot that we're worried that he's not as good as shown is just that. We haven't seen a complete comfort level of what he can or can't do and that's a subtle difference. But that's that's an important difference. You know, it's interesting. So let's talk about Dwayne Haskins a little bit more depth here. The one thing obviously, you mentioned the experience. It's one year, you know, Cuyler Murray's a one year guy. Mitchell Trubisky was a one year guy. And I know what was the old Bill Parcells rule. I don't remember. How many starts it was two years two years? But the thing that worries me more about Dwayne Haskins more than the experience is to be honest. As is the mobility because I look at a twenty one year old Dwayne Haskins and everybody talks about he lied manning isn't very mobile and in this and that, but I look at twenty one year old Dwayne Haskins in a thirty eight year old Eli manning, and to be honest with you, I quite honestly don't see a whole lot of difference in the way that those guys move around. And that bothers me. Yeah. And that's absolutely fact with that. And that's why some people if we were just constrict the conversation between Haskins lock people might prefer lock. But the issue is the if you're building a team and you want to build it the right way. Then you're going to make the the commitment that you're also need an offense of line. And that maybe your quarterback, you're young quarterback while play your one, and hopefully you'll have built up your offense of line enough that he can function as a as a good drop back quarterback in year two year three and that line will continue to improve to the point that he's just not he's not getting punished on a on a regular basis because you know, you look at a in. We'll talk about locking will bit. But with Haskins the thing is if you give him the time in the pocket he can climb from pressure. He can reduce the shoulder. He can keep his feet in a balanced position to the liver. Inaccurate ball. When you look at his accuracy. I've charted I think ten games of his. His and you can see I mean, you can I can definitely see you know, he's I've used charting based on an NFL next gen stats data to track different thresholds for ranges of the field. So I look at things like all is up on platform throws all of his off platform throws. Whether all of his throws were on the move the throws at he makes the opposite hash, and I also even track them, according to pressure and without pressure. And I do it for things like the short area field intermediate the vertical range to me, which is like within about you know, which is from about twenty nine yards to forty two yards. And then the deep range, which is the the extreme deed past like forty two yards. And I look at you know, the flat sideline in the middle of the field for all of us. So it's a lot of combinations of things and and Haskins certainly showed good accuracy. Strong accuracy in the middle like the short and intermediate ranges of the field. And then he showed some promise with his op. Opposite hash. Accuracy, see in the vertical in deep rang. So, you know, he's got the arm. He's just has to have room to set up and fire. And that's something that the giants can't give him right now. And if you're gonna go by the model of the quarterback has to perform within his first two years and be you know, and help them a contender. He's going to need more help than what the giants have been able to provide you live manning, and he's gonna end. So that they're not in that position realistically. Do it Haskins may not be a great batch for who they are right now. But maybe if they're patient enough to wait another year or two he might be able to be a good player for what they want the giants to be. You know, Matt it's kind of a side discussion here. But you talk about you know, the short term, and what the giants want to be Dave Gettleman has said we're building. We're not rebuilding. We're not tearing this apart. He said you can win while you try to build mean, do you? Does your gut tell you that you have to go all in on a rebuild or that? You can that. You can do it the way the giants are trying to do it where you where you basically build and find the quarterback when you think he's the right one. I think you can I think that I mean, it's different types of rebuilding. But you think about Seattle, and you think about the fact that they had Russell Wilson, but they didn't have an offensive line, and he is getting punished on a regular basis and at the same time while they went down from being Super Bowl champion and a and a championship contender over the past couple of years they were able to get back into the playoffs this year, and they were able to rebuild their line on the fly and do that. I would say the Atlanta Falcons are another good example of team that has been wildly inconsistent over the years. It seems like one year they're in. They're continued for championship the next year. They're all of the playoffs. But what you found is that oftentimes. Do with injuries or the lack an office of line, and they had an incredible effort under Dmitrov to be able to rebuild that offense of line when they were transitioning away from the likes of Roddy, white and Tony Gonzalez, and and they were bringing devante Freeman into the fold as the league runner and getting rid of Michael Turner, when then when they were able to make that transition with the offense line, they did it over the course of summer, which is almost unheard of for the NFL. But the fact of the matter is is that if you were to if the giants were to get the caliber of line that disciplined had report, and they and you had the kind of skill that you're looking for from the those positions, and they and that starts to click up front. There's enough talent in the skill positions on that offense for them to thrive. And I think that the, you know may not be ideal to everyone specification of what kind of, you know, lead receiver. They want have now. Or whether or not the tight end is exactly what they're looking for. And and again, the quarterback, you know, whether it's ally this year or even next year or if it's a new starter. But I think that that it can get moving in the right direction. And it's just about also understanding that, you know, a lot of it too is teams tend to tear down to the studs when their front office completely changes. And and they and they end up cleaning house with teams. I mean, I was a Cleveland Browns fan growing up, and and watching the Cleveland Browns, and all the rations they've been through since that team came back after they the the original version of moved to Baltimore, you know, you can see the difference between those teams Cleveland Baltimore has the same kind of makeup. They get the same kind of players that I used to watch when I was growing up in the nineteen seventies and eighties tough physical. You know, smart players. They tend to like to run the ball. They like to play. Know physical defense and you look at the Cleveland Browns of past rations since they came back to the town. And it's been like one range the other of approach of how they're going to do things. And I think that you know, with Gettleman he's trying to keep a consistent approach giant scouts always been known to be a quality scouting department. And I think that that's something that they're trying to just leverage that in in a slightly different way in terms of addressing their needs. And I think they have the confidence that they've got enough core players in place that they just need to get maybe four to five more on at various positions to be able to solidify this could be moving in the right direction again funny. How it largely always comes down to the big guys in front who who do the blocking? Yeah. Yeah. But it's you do sound like, you know, Dave Gettleman, Pat Shurmur have both said that they. They continued to insist they believe they can play good football. Good offensive football with the ally Gettleman has said he thinks it's a false narrative that manning can't play anymore. And I think we all know that a guy who's thirty eight thirty nine and throwing his sixteenth season isn't going to be physically exactly what he was you know, ten years ago, but ice still think we saw enough at the end of the season. And it really wasn't intending get into an ally discussion with you. I think we saw enough that there's reason to think that they're right in the short term, you it sounds like you agree with that. I absolutely do. And I'm just going to give quick little analogy that I think will fit without even having to talk about it in football terms. Imagine the fact that you're hungry, and you wanna go to a local diner, and you know. That diner makes something that you really like whether it's a Philly, or at some sort of chili or some sort of you know, Meatloaf that they make this really good. And you know that that chef who's been doing it for the past. You know, short order cook has been doing it for the past fourteen fifteen eighteen years, however, long has been doing it is great at it. And he has a certain set of directions on how to do it. And he knows this acquit -ment in what's around him to do the job. Now, if you asked him to make something that, you know, Gordon Ramsay might make you know with you know, his culinary background. He might panic and not play all may not be able to do that in. It might not. It'd be a very good dish. But you know, what he can do. And if you give him the environment to do it in he's going to be fine. And it could actually end up being great and far more satisfying me meal as long as he has all the things he needs around him to do his job and. Madden's like that short order cook. He's never going to be Gordon Ramsay. He's never going to be the guy who's going to do the tremendously creative stuff. But if you give him what he needs, you know, in that environment. And that's what they're they're banking on than he can be good enough for this team to win. Even if he's never gonna be, you know, the elite quarterback in the defined sense that no one's where there's no debate about it. Thank you for that. Because I have been banging that drum free years. Now that that ally is still ally is what he is in the biggest difference between what we see now. And what we saw back in the day when the giants were contending for Super Bowls. The biggest thing that we see that's different is the cast around him. And the idea that they just they haven't run the football. Even last year was Barkley. They didn't run the football that. Well, I think that some of the advanced stats that Bill Conley of Espy nation put together showed that they had you know, they were they were way up at the top in explosive place. But in terms of running officiency down to down getting what you should get out of every single play. They were I think thirtieth in the league, you know, that was just my concern about Barclay. Pre draft. If he didn't if he got matched with a team that didn't have good blocking up front because he'd have to create from self and the combination of poor blocking and the combination of his desire to be creative and hit those big plays. Sometimes leads to lack of mature decisions at times, which gets exacerbated with that that offensive line. So he's a great back. But yeah, this is exactly what would happen when you get matched with a line that just isn't doing great work. And we all love we all love those explosive plays. But I also your offense doesn't function when you're among the league leaders in negative plays either. No. And that's why you know, one of the things that's important about running back play is how good of a decision. Do they make when it comes to down and distance and field position because and Barkley is good Barclays way better than good? But he's he's solid enough in that department. But at the same time there are going to be times, especially as a rookie where you can get impatient. And if you if you're starting from a negative place, suddenly the playbook is closed off. And now, you're not your offense has no shot of being efficient and no shot of being productive because you're starting off in a place where the percentages of plays that are going to number plays. You can use the percentage of success or likely success for those plays dwindles dramatically when it's now second fifteen or third and twelve. Right. So you know, we we've gone off and talk a little bit about ally. Now, we've talked about the offense of line in the running game. And I did say at the top of the show we were mostly going to talk about quarterbacks in the draft. Did I well, you know, it all fits the other? Right. Sure. It's you know, it all it all works together. So what I wanna do what I wanna do. We talked about the sixth pick. And we talked about twain Haskins. You know, we talked a little bit about, you know, drew lock also maybe not being value at six the giants. Thanks to the Odal Beckham trade also have the seventeenth pick. Now the way quarterbacks come off the board. Who knows maybe locking Haskins are gone by the sixth pick, you know, more than likely, you know, one or both of them is probably gone by the seventeenth pick. But should either of those guys be available at seventeen. Do you see them? We'll go back to the value discussion you see one of them or both of them as value at seventeen. I would prefer Haskins at seventeen I still don't see lock as value at seventeen and we'll talk a little bit more about lock. And I think the reason being is that lock has the big arm, and you you're gonna hear from a, you know. Sometimes we heard from you know, corporate media, the kind of the larger media outlets that have, you know, sound soundbite amount of time to discuss players may give a short dirty comparison to Patrick Mahomes because of the ability to make off platform throws. But drew lock doesn't have the discipline of footwork doesn't have the discipline of tempo doesn't really or his arm slots to actually make the decisions that he should make. He is a guy that has the talent that you could look at him. And if he were applying it correctly, he would be a top five pick. But the problem is when you watch his gain he's wildly inconsistent. And and I hate to you know, link motivation to a player who by all accounts works hard. And by all accounts, you know, as good team leader in the locker room from what I hear. But he's a young man and young men sometimes are give are sometimes they are. Abled in a way that if it's worked for them, and at a certain level, and they're doing well, then they don't have to address things that are really gonna help them down the line. You can be a good guy. You could be a hard worker and not always work on the right things and one of the things that he doesn't work on. And hasn't worked on enough yet is that his footwork is sloppy. It's he just walked back from the pocket. He's not always in the positioning needs to be throw the ball at balance. And that means he's not gonna throw it always accurately because he leans on that ability to throw off platform with his arm. And sometimes you'll see throws that he could set up and fire the ball with quicker rhythm. And so the rob he's getting the ball there on time to the route and spot needs to be he doesn't do. So because he's gotten away in high school and in college of being able to make some throws at others. Can't from an off bounce position thing Jay Cutler thing Matthew, Stafford think Jeff George thing. I think guys like that and coaches have been like we've got other. To worry about you know, that's something he can work on his own. And if he's productive for us. Well, you know, I mean, we can talk to him about it. But that's up to him to work on it. And if we're winning or were doing or he's our best quarterback in that, you know, at that that this juncture doing those things, then whatever. And I think that what happens is when he I watched him against better opponents like top SEC teams like Alabama and Florida and LSU teams like that. You would see him try to play the way he supposed to which is with tempo with better footwork, and he would look better in those instances where he executed that. But because he was playing teams that were able to break down his offense of line quicker as the game started to progress, and he had less and less time, you know, that kind of fellow part two for him. But he's also the consistency being able to do it wasn't there. Because when you have all these layers of skills that you're learning a quarterback. You can't just. Turn them on and off like a light switch. They have to be consistent like thermostat and he doesn't have thermostat game. He has a light. Switch game right now in you and for quarterback in the NFL, those baseline skills need to be lights. You know, be thermostat consistent, Pat, Mahomes with his off balanced footwork. And all the things that he did one of things I always talked about with him as if people over emphasize all that off platform stuff because if you actually wash his feet, they were very quick and precise. And maybe they weren't always according to the to the, you know, very prototypical technique you're looking for, but he threw from balanced positions. And he got set in the way that he needed to or with lock. You're not seeing that. So I'm have real concerns about him being consistent. He'll make throws people. Go see that's a top five play right there. And I'll go that's great. You found the four leaf clover clover patch now don't but instead of telling me that there's four leaf clovers all over the clover. Patch while. See if you can find fifteen more of those for me before you start telling me that this is the lucky clover patch that you found. You know, let me let me throw something else out for you in reference to to lock in something that that bothered me. And it's not footwork. It's not necessarily fundamentals something that bothers me when I watched drew lock play is the number of times he makes throws where his wide receivers. Get crushed times. He basically throws wide receivers into trouble. Am I just am? I am I imagining that or is that something that speaks to his judgment. Or what does that speak to? I think it speaks to the same thing. I'm talking with just another symptom of the problem because when you when you lean on your arm to bail you out, and you you're not thinking ahead. And if you're thinking ahead, you become more considered a factors like where do I place the ball for the? Wide receiver. You know? Because if you're if you're Tom Brady your Peyton Manning, or or, you know, even ally, you know, as best is that when you have time to drop back survey the field do things in rhythm, and you're playing with the tempo you need to. So that you can tip information. You're not just trying to fit the ball to the open, man. So if you're not throwing with anticipation, if you're if you're not throwing from a balanced position, you're more prone to throw inaccurate passes or force passes into situations that you shouldn't. And that's why he throws more hospitals hospital balls. I I don't think I had heard that term before. But yes, some of the hits I saw some of the Missouri wide receivers take this year. We're we're not good at all. No. And you we know that we've you see why receivers they understand they're they're getting paid lots of money, and this is a profession and that some point some of these wide receiver. Are gonna go. Listen, I'm not going for that. I'm not golfer that business. I I have five years left on my deal. I would like to make that kind of money and pay off my house, you know, like to have a college fund for my kid. I'm not doing that. And some people will say, you know, diehard fans will say certain things about that. And I understand. I mean, there's a sentiment where you want guys to sacrifice your for your team on a level. That's big and certain games. You want expect them to take that risk? But you know, I still think that applies to everyday life. And and you know, there's certain things on your job that if someone told you to to make the ultimate sacrifice wasn't in your job is. I'm pretty sure this ain't people saying that stuff would their sim situations that are parallel to their own lives where they probably don't do that at all. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I'm not sure I would I would, you know, jump off a cliff in Acapulco or something to get an interview with alive manning or something like that. Exactly. Exactly. I'm not standing in front of a bus and waiting for it to hit me. I'm sorry. No. But yeah. But I'm glad that to hear you you say that that I was right to be concerned about because that was one of the things that that jumped off, you know, as I was watching some drew lock is boy his wide receivers are taking a lot of hits. Yeah. Get your brackets ready. March madness is here and the best places they on top of all the NCAA tournament. Coverage. CBS sports HQ CBS sports HQ is a free twenty four hour sports network. That's built for fans just like you from nonstop highlights to news and analysis. CBS sports HQ got you covered by cutting through the noise of hot takes fake debates to get smart analysis, and helpful highlights for your fantasy teams and beyond checkout. CBS sports, h q. It's always on and always free. No need to pay subscription fee or have an expensive cable package. Download the CBS sports app on your phone fire TV Roku or apple TV to start watching today. Hello. I'm Spencer hall from Espy nation. And I wanna tell you about my new show. It seemed smart. It seems mart as the show about people doing things that for some reason or another seems smart at the time. Those things might include doing a little cocaine driving a bike up mountain or I don't know maybe racing one hundred miles per hour across the country in the middle of the night with no one's permission or even stealing a bat from an empire is room in a major league baseball park, check it out. And if you like it tell a friend, I'm Spencer hall. Don't do anything smart. So let's let's turn to we've talked about six we've talked about seventeen the next pick that the giants have in the draft is that thirty seven, and there's been some discussion of maybe the giants would kick the can you know into the second round. Maybe they'll just kick the kin in the two thousand twenty for someone like just in Herbert or Jake from. Let's keep it framed. In terms of value at thirty seven. In your mind on the you know, the quarterbacks that might be remaining. Who are the value guys that might be there at thirty seven who who could actually become at least, you know, capable NFL starters. I have one in mind, and he's actually on the top of my board. Overall. And he's like he's being talked about as a second round pick right now. But may rise into the late. I and and again, if you have your thirty seven you can use that to trade back into the light. I if you like this guy, and he reminds me a lot of Tony Romo. And there are a lot of early second. They're not a lot. But there's some significant names early in the second round who've been good quarterback. Like, drew Brees will Greer is that player out of West Virginia. I think will Greer's an underrated quarterback who's creative. He's intuitive. And he's accurate when I look at his accuracy and ice scouted that it was on the level of marine Haskins. This is a guy who's short intermediate range on platform is seventy eighty percent with what I looked at as vertical range was, you know, the threshold for that more like in the forty fifty percent range of what's acceptable. And he's you know, over sixty percent and two out of three categories. And he has a strong deep game are heard, you know, Phil Simms. Son talk about you know, talk about accuracy. And how he needs to use every part of his by throw the ball. But I know Mark, and I have looked at that. And we both I asked him about it after I looked I heard that and said if you something that I haven't seen and marks like, Nah, I mean I've seen them load up the ball little bit. But that's nothing major. I'm notice them a lot on one step two step three step drops and fire. Throw the ball. You know, forty fifty yards pinpoint accurate to his receivers. He's a very aggressive downfield passer who also can win on the move. He's someone that he can extend plays. He can make off script throws. He can throw receivers open with pressure bearing down on him. Now, he's not Patrick Mahomes in that quality. But he's good. He's good at those types of skills, and he has a better on than I think that's described of him. It's just the fact is that he's not. You know? I mean, again, he led I think in the velocity SCO testing for his arm, which was something that people really didn't expect from him. But this is a a smart quarterback who plays with a lot of guts who is someone who does understand how to attack the field. But he's also been very productive and accurate with his game. And I think that if you can get him in the early second round you one when it comes to this quarterback class. You've you would absolutely come out winners with this in terms of making the right decision on the correct quarterback here, and he's actually the top quarterback on my board. I mean, I love Kyle Murray's potential alike twain Haskins, but I think will Greer in terms of his play action game in terms of his ability to run multiple types. Offenses how he can manipulate the field how pinpoint he is in the deep. Ranges of the field. I mean, he's made his receivers better. I've heard a lot about his receivers, you know, Gary Jennings junior and David sills. And neither of those guys rated highly in my evaluations will Greer made them better. He made those guys look a lot better than they actually are pro prospects the problem with him as it. He just didn't audition. Very well at the senior bowl. He didn't stand out in a huge way just like Kirk cousins. And and Russell Wilson stand out in the big way there either auditions are different animal than the actual onstage performance will Greer when you put them on the stage of the NFL field or college field. He knows how to play. And he and and when it's dish time he may get a little too excited early in a game or early on. You may have one bad play and and people will use that and extend up. I I actually watched the practice tape from from the senior bowl every night after after the the event after each. Practice session, and he did find there was nothing that I was majorly concerned about from those practice sessions, but you hear about that in soap opera style format in terms of how the the games reported in how the vents reported, and you know, it's kind of like watching these financial news network shows where the stocks up one day down the next, you know, you're going to if you ride that kind of train you're not really doing a good job as investor long term of what you're looking at. And I think will Greer long-term is that kind of player who can grow to be every bit the starter of you know, maybe the the top starter in this class. And if the giants could get him, you know, the six two to seventeen guy who I think if he were at Florida still probably would have gotten even more notoriety. But he's a guy that I really believe you give him a year to sit and acclimate or at least part of the year to acclimate. You're going to get a player, that's very promising. And he may not be a world beater, you know, in terms of, you know, potential all pro, you know, top elite quarterback. But I think he could get very close to that kind of production, especially as they build talent around him. So if the giants are intent on following what Dave Gettleman has referred to as the Kansas City model which could be the old San Francisco forty Niners model with Montana and young. And in all of those things I mean, it's not original to Kansas City, it it sounds to me like like you're thinking that Greer's the right play, especially if they're able to use those first two picks they have in the draft to to supplement the roster. Absolutely. I think that if they do that, they would I know I know just as you know, for whatever my opinion's worth on draft on outcomes a draft. I would find that. To be a strategically strong set of moves. So let's talk about the other. We'll talk about some of the other prospects who could be drafted at thirty seven. But while we're while we're talking about thirty seven. We need to talk a little bit about Josh Rosen because I think the most people think that if the giants are going to make a play for Josh Rosen that it would probably cost them the thirty seven th pick. I'm one who's not in favor of them. Giving up a first round pick for Rosen looking at the class and looking at Greer and looking at the other options if they were able to make a play for Josh Rosen with that thirty seven th pick in maybe with a later asset to is that in your mind smart play as well. Or is that one that you would stay away from it's a smart play as well. And I think it's because t-, you know, there's a few things, you know, if you look in the if you look at what's been going on in terms of how best put this how the how the media looks at you know, quarterbacks recently. In terms of how they how Josh Rosen performed this year statistically, it was really bad. But he didn't have offense of line. Now, the support I thought he was the most technically sound quarterback available in any recent draft, a loved his aggression. I think he has ability to learn any offense. He's a pocket quarterback. You know, he reminds me of Matt Ryan with a bigger arm, and he was my top quarterback last year in that class. And you know, I had I had Jared Goff is the top quarterback in the class. He was in. And we saw what happened Jared Goff that first year. And then he was able to get with, you know, get paired with a coach who was able to mold the scheme to the player as opposed to mold the player to the scheme and you saw now Jared Goff in his third year played in Super Bowl, you know. And while people say, well, you play well in the Super Bowl, you could also say, well, listen, the genius, Sean McVeigh. As good as he is also had the hubris to come into that Super Bowl thinking that he can run the same small number of plays against Bill Belichick, the grand chessmaster and not make any adjustments and and leave Jared Goff kinda out to dry there in that resent in that sense. Because that's what happened. And but we don't talk about that. We talk about Jared Goff making bad throws. You know, Jerry Gaza a good quarterback. Josh Rosen can be good quarterback allies brother was on ESPN. If you don't take my word for it. You can go on Peyton Manning's insider, you know, reviews of of Josh Rosen talk about the positive things. He saw from Rosen. You know in the game that he studied the games that he studied Rosen is a guy that that the reputation that he has being kind of a mouth content when he was younger is something that probably is permeating this class and people are probably trying to say, well, if they if they're unloading him it must because he doesn't play well with others. He doesn't get along. Well, the the same stuff we saw UCLA, and I'll and I'll say this maybe some of that's true. I mean, I do know this talked to people who worked with Josh Rosen in high school and Josh Rosen said something so off putting it at Stanford just before he was about to get this scholarship there in. His final interview that they decided they were gonna go in a different direction and that was his dream school to play for. But he admitted to that he admitted that publicly he said, it was something had to grow up from and he came in pretty cocky, but he is one of those guys at ask why asks how wants to know the reason behind things and sometimes the old school of the NFL didn't like that. Jim more juniors old school is the son of an old school NFL coach kind of. And he hasn't always been known from what I note from what I hear is always being the most flexible about things, I mean Brett Hundley remember playing for him didn't get the chance to make any type of line calls. He got pummeled all the time. And the rate of what they did on offense was just was just crazy, and he talked about Brett Hundley as a player who wasn't going to be able to adjust quickly to the NFL, you know, and and Brett Hundley when he came in with Green Bay while he hasn't had had the career that you would hope. For he came into the NFL and led the preseason in quarterback rating and surprise the Packers with how fast how quickly he got off the ground and part of it was how good he was at being able to learn information that Jim Mora implied that he couldn't. So, you know, when I look at Rosen's relationship to that coaching staff, I think at the same time to that some of that can be put on on these coaches so Rosen to me, I don't think is as much of an issue from an off field standpoint as much as it is that he just needs support around him and the giants may provide a similar situation, but maybe slightly better in terms of you know, the caliber of receiving talent even without L Beckham junior and with offense of line in the direction, it's going. So it would be I think if they get him they end up with a guy that could potentially be a franchise quarterback. You know, the only other thing I wanted to say about Rosen is people talk about the the statistics from his rookie year. I look at the situation and AirAsia, and I don't think you can hold anything that happened in Arizona against him. You're talking about a team that that fired. It's offensive coordinator midway through the season had a rookie head coach who is in over his head and got fired after the season. Terrible offense of line not much around him a team that justifiably won only three games. I think it's as you said other rookie quarterback's have have compiled bad statistics in their first your ally. Manning was bad as a rookie. I think it's just hard to hold anything that happened in Arizona last year against Josh Rosen. I think I think he's wherever he lands in two thousand nineteen it's a clean slate. Start over for Rosen. Yep. Absolutely. And that's I think that's one of those things that it's hard for people to understand that sometimes. And they they don't realize that this is this is a game that does require a lot of surrounding talent to help in a lot and inactivation period. And if your offense of lot if you're often of head coach didn't really have a game plan until preseason because he literally said, we're going to wait and see what people do well and don't do well to to build a scheme around that. It sounds good on the surface. But it didn't work out in execution because what you ended up with was an overly dense disorganized mass. And that's not helpful when you're trying you know with quarterbacking. You can't think you have to react to what you see. There's all these layers of information that you have to understand along with applying your technique. Well, which is your technique is something that has to be kept up with the way that -sition keeps up with their technique on a daily basis and. If you're having to over think basic things basically information that you've already spent years practicing, and you're having to focus on those types of things. Because of the fact that the offense is making you slowdown and over thank things you're in trouble. You're in trouble. I've always joked around that Jared Goff having to learn the learned the west coast offense, which is like the the much more souped up version of the air raid that he played area. It's like still version west coast offense is kind of like having to learn Chinese and like two months, and then go to like go to China where only people are speaking Chinese, and suddenly you've had a little too much to drink use the restroom and you have to ask the question. How do I use the bathroom fluent Chinese and have someone said you you're gonna go three blocks down this way? Go to the first building on the left. It's yellow building with a red door knock three times on the door. And go up these five flights of stairs. There's a purple Dohrn old woman's gonna. Answer. And just ask it, let her know you use the men's room, and she'll take you to a door with a star in a drag on it. And in the time. I said that imagine that said at the same rate and Chinese and you will be studied it for three months. You're basically, you're basically gonna need a clean up on aisle five, you know, I was gonna say all you have to be. You know? I mean, that's basically what happened to wet is pants pretty much. There was a blitz protection that needed to be called or that. There was a play call and Jeff Fisher's offense than even though. The offense wasn't great. He was having to learn the stuff and over think this kind of thing. And that's that's the problem that he had the extreme of what happens to rookie quarterback's everywhere when they have to learn a dense offense, and what made Sean McVay so great was he limited the offense because he decided that let's put the into the hands of the players to diagnose things on the field will run some of the same similar place. So they can read how the defense is adjusting. Then come back to those plays and make adjustments as opposed to have an encyclopedia going on that one play. We played on third one in the middle of the second quarter. Let's go back to that in you know, in the fourth quarter. I mean, you can do that. When you have a quarterback who's played for eighteen years. You know, you don't do that with a quarterback who's played for one. So before I let you pontiff Kate about Brett Rippin for a little while. What I wanna do? There's two other guys. I think we need to talk about. Well, we're at thirty seven we need to talk about Daniel Jones. We need to talk about Jarret stidham. Let me quickly say about Jones, we know all about David cut cliff. We know all about all of the connections with the giants. We know all about all of those things. And we know, you know, Daniel Jones looks the part the other thing I want to say about stood him. Is it brings up for me? You know what Marx? Go field is talked about so-so career great at the senior bowl in the thing. I want you to address withstood him is is which one do you pay more attention to? Yeah. Those are great questions. And let's start with this. Listen, I know that David cliff is probably a little near and dear to the hearts of anyone who's who's washed. Eli manning play and admired what he has been able to accomplish for the giants over the course of his career. But let's understand something David cut cliff as good of a coach he is as good of a teacher that he is you still have to have great students, and what about all the other quarterbacks who've entered the NFL as David cliff guy who didn't make it like the Manning's. You know, is that the blame cut cliff? No because cut cliffs done his job. But he's a teacher. There's only so much that he can do. So sometimes I think this whole cut cliff influence thing has a little bit more influence inflated value to value to making these decisions than it. Should you know, because it's you know, you can have you can have a great teacher. But unless you're a great student. You know, I know quarterback coaches and many of them are pretty. Honest about saying, hey, I've coached some really good students, and I hope and I I've never impart things on them. But you know, me bragging about me having these guys as a student that helps from marketing, but let's be honest. It's just the fact that I inherited a great student. You know, who's able to take the information I can impart in use efficiently. So you know, when you look at Daniel Jones, he is exactly what the old school to NFL valuation of the position is which is he's big he came. He's intelligent in terms of books. Marts? He's tough in the pocket. I really like his toughness in the pocket. He can make plays under pressure and just come back for more punishment, and he has a good arm. But here's the thing. He doesn't put his game together. Very well as lots of miscommunication with his receivers, he's not always accurate his foot work lags behind his thought processes, so he's a little bit slow to be able to set up and he doesn't play in the temple that you're looking for which. Very important arms of setting up everything you do in your game. From that standpoint. You know, he's someone where you know. It's like he has some quiet footwork. But again, it's one of those situations where it's just a big sign that he's his mind's not in sync with his body. And so for his disconnection slowdown his processing, and I don't think he reads coverage very well. In terms of identifying where the defender whose may be an Cillari to the main coverage, he's not seeing accounting for that defender and oftentimes gives passes cut off or undercut in ways that shouldn't. He's also has a lot of passes batted down. I mean, like people worry all the time. And the casual since the Kyle Lowry was going to have a lot of passes batted down because he's short, but I've scouted, but the same amount of games for those guys. And I believe that Daniel Jones had fifteen. Passes knockdown Kawamori had one. So, you know, it's it, and we know Daniel Jones six five six four or six five me. So that's a you know, that's an interesting thing about him. I just don't think Daniel Jones is just not quite accurate enough in the vertical game. He's just not quite accurate enough in the deep game. And I don't think that the process he has really support that well and as far as Jared him. Yeah. I think Jared SIMS a good audition or he's a guy who he looks the part. He's got really strong athletic ability. When you ask them throw in drills. You know, he's going to do things that look really impressive. But when you ask them to actually integrate all of these skills onto the field in game situations. That's where things kind of are difficult. I think he's the guy that is going to get a lot of love for the promise that he has because you know, he can he's very good with play fakes. He's quick. He's tough. He's got the big gun. He can cycle through his reads. But I think he rushes throws. He plays at a tempo that sometimes too fast kind of a breakneck tempo. And so he's a little too far ahead of himself when he plays and that creates just as many issues as it does for someone who's playing behind him po-. So I think he doesn't account for coverage the way he should he can get reckless into invested in the plays when pressure, you know, forces him to prolong play or drive get himself out of the pocket. And I think even when he's in the pocket. He'll see, you know, the big thing about quarterbacking for me that you wanna look at is. When you see the defender in a position against the receiver in that receiver has leveraged before he breaks open, so say, for instance, the receivers run a post route, and he gives a little bit of a nod to the corner and it forces the defender plane over top of him to slightly turn his chest towards the sideline. And you know that the receivers gonna break inside. At that moment where the defenders turned inside. That's the leverage you want to get you to be set and ready to throw in you throw within discipline. You're throwing at that point. The ball comes out there. A lot the difference between the great quarterbacks in the NFL and guys who either aren't good enough to start or just good enough to hold onto a job for a little while until they find someone else are the guys who when they see that leverage. They wait another beat or to see the receiver break open by the time. They do that the defenders already recovered and can undercut the ball or a safety on the other side of field in come across and cut off the pass because they're waiting too long to say that I really see what I just saw and you can see that in their footwork with the way that they tap their foot or hop another step or to take an extra hitch when the ball show to come out. And when I look at Daniel when I look at him, he's waiting. He's like did. I really see what I just saw. So he ends to and he waits too long and. Forces the ball in bad situation, or he turns away from route that will break open and goes to something else to see that's quite obvious. So what that tells me that his game is an integrated yet, it's easy to look great throwing to route that you know, isn't covered against era, you know in a drill or seven on sevens. Where the risk isn't huge to make those daring throws. There are a lot of people who auditioned better than they perform. And I think he's one of those guys. All right. So let's turn to a little bit of talk about some of the day three guys. And we'll just call this. What it is. It's the Brett Rippin section of the show. Not Mark Scofield. I know that you know, you indicated earlier that you're also kind of a on the on the Rippin sort of bandwagon fan club, whatever you wanna call it. And I know what Mark sees because we've talked about it. What do you see in Rippin? And is he a guy who could really come out of this class as a as a day three as a fourth round guy in wind up being one of the better quarterbacks in this class. I think can. And I think the reason is is that if he developed just a little bit more velocity inaccuracy on some of the vertical deep throws. He is a guy who's good enough to be a productive starter. I think has the best footwork in this class securites all forms of drops with precision rhythm officiency. And he's got tempo. There are a lot of quarterbacks don't play with good tempo in college game. And he's always playing at a strong tempo. And you can see it whenever there. He's giving a variety of play fakes selling those or whether he's manipulating defenders with the way that he turns his body, and he's also someone. That's tough in the pocket in terms of being able to take hits, but he can climb and slide and flush from from the pocket and still deliver with pinpoint accuracy because I grade by general accuracy and pinpoint accuracy. And general accuracy is kind of what was like I was joked that Mon Mike Holmgren got dressed down a little bit by Bill Walsh when they were working together after Montana threw a ball rice. That was good enough for rice to stretch in catch any said good throw, you know, to to and prays Joe Joe, Montana and Walsh came over and said, don't you ever tell him a throw like that's a good throw. And it went on to give him a mini treaties on what a good throw was in terms of how it should look. And what pinpoint accuracy was. So I was joked that general accuracy is what Mike Holmgren before though Walsh dressing down with said was good enough. And then you have the Bill Walsh standard. And so you I great both because sometimes. You have to have the Mike home come standard. You know, the pre Walsh standard of that. And then sometimes it's more important. It has to be pinpoint and I think Rippin has very good pinpoint accuracy a lot of his throws. And so I like the toughness with his game. I think that someone that at worst. He you know, if I'm completely wrong about him. I think it worse. He develops into a case keenum type of player, I think at his best. He can be more like what people in vision. Teddy Bridgewater to be before as he was coming on before his injury, someone that can buy time in the pocket someone that can, you know, find the open man throw with anticipation and with good accuracy and show toughness. And so I like his game. I think that he is actually one of the top five quarterbacks in this class. I wouldn't touch Daniel Jones with ten foot pole. But I would take Brett Rippin an instant at probably, you know, at the place where I've probably take Brett Rippin like in the second. Third round. If I had to if I was forced to choose him or Daniel Jones or drew lock, you know, or some of the guys that we mentioned there. But I think that has Thurday picky and absolute bargain to take a shot on because at worst, you get a competent backup. But I think that he's he offers more than that. All right. Final question for you. And you know, I don't wanna go through every single one of the draftable day three guys. But I'm gonna throw a patch Shurmur quote at you. And I'm going to ask you, you know, for one guy we haven't talked about. So put yourself in the situation where you're the quarterback coach Pat Shurmur uses the phrase winning meets these guys when he looks at quarterbacks one of the questions he asks himself is is this a guy that I really want to coach. Is there a guy among the quarterbacks today? Three guys, whatever their guy that we haven't talked about yet that if you were a quarterback coach, you would say I really wanna work with that guy and see what we can do. Yes. And there's three guys, and I'm not gonna I'm just going to mention the other two by name. I won't mention much about their game. And then I mentioned the guy that I really like there's Tyree Jackson. There's his son Kyle. Yeah. That one I don't think is going to happen. And I don't think it's going to happen. And there's eastern stick out of North Dakota state. I think eastern stick is a tough quick aggressive quarterback who is really comfortable in the pocket. Someone who can who knows how to new tight space as well. And still being a position throw the ball. He has really he's underrated as an athlete. I mean, his his twenty shuttle three cone drill. He could be a slot receiver with the kind of speed and quite or the kind of quickness and change direction skill that, he exhibited a six point six five three cone drill. I mean, that's like that's like elite slot receiver quickness and a four point zero five twenty shuttle anyone's four six forty. I mean, he literally is he's a six one two hundred twenty four pound athlete who runs with the quickness of a slot receiver, and he's physical, and he is someone. That can run the ball for you. But he has the aggressiveness to throw downfield. He makes really nice throws. He makes really strong decisions at times, he's a bad ler. And I think the issue with him as he's been inconsistent time. There's times that he misses throws at you're like, how did you not see that you know, that post breaking wide open? And why did you throw it over here to the opposite side, you know, some of those types of things that I think he can get better at they're just kinda decision making things that he can continue to work on because I see moments where he does process the field. Very well, it's not like he whenever he has an opportunity to process field that he messes it up. It's just that he has someplace where you're like that was really bad word choice in that speech. He made. But there are other things you said that were so eloquent that I'm just going to have to think that you really didn't think about that or prepare for that as well as you could have so eastern stick out of North Dakota state. That's a guy that you have I get at the end of draft. I think he's kind of guy that would endear himself to teammates and be the kind of guy that might be able to outplay his draft position. All right. Hey, we always appreciate you spending some time with us. You know, we've pretty much gone all the way through the the quarterback class. Hopefully, giants fans have have learned a few things. I mean, we know that we know that you're you're on the Brett Rippin bandwagon. And that you think Dave cattleman should have his head examined if he drafts Daniel Jones, but. What I hope to do. You know, let's do this again. Let's get you back on to talk wide receivers and tight ends. We're kind of going to skip the running back discussions since the giants have a guy who's not half bad is. All right. But but let's let's do that. Again, you know before we get to draft. They will get you back on to talk tight ends and wide receivers in before. I let you go one or two just tell folks. So where they can find your work, if they're not sure. And I know you're you're you're draft guide is available now. So make sure people know how to get it. Sure. I saying ours P publication you get a draft guide that's devoted to quarterback running back. Why receiver tied him, and it's a thousand pages on a pedia probably about four hundred fifty of 'em. You're gonna read the other thousands sporting material. So if you wanna be taken through my scouting process and see how that works. You'll learn a lot about evaluation. And the details of how to evaluate those positions. You'll find that there, but you'll also get rankings on players skillset, breakdowns, really in depth work on on about one hundred twenty nine of those players will be greatly in depth. And then you'll still get a good overview about one hundred ninety four overall prospects at those four positions. You also get a post draft guide that comes with it after week after may. So if you're a fantasy player, I also am a senior staff writer football dot com. One of the oldest and well known fancy football sites out there and I year that towards fantasy owners who play in redraft dynasty leagues can be put on. You'll also be on my newsletter that comes out monthly from June through December to talk about future prospects in how this current classes performing in league, you can find my work at WWW dot Matt Waldman, ours p dot com where Mark in. I put out a lot of information with video. Formats of breakdowns of players. I also have a YouTube channel called Matt Walden czars p film rim that has nearly four hundred four hundred shows on it ranging from three to five minutes isolating a couple of plays to our long shows voted the guys like Daniel Jones twain, Haskins Cuyler Murray will Greer some stuff that even market I've done together on some of these players like stood in Greer. And so and you can buy the ours p at mount Waldman dot com, and that's where you can get it and take a tour video tour of it and see see what it's all about. I know between the two of you guys it is an education in quarterback play in and how to study the position. And we always appreciate you taking some time to to talk with us as it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. All right. And we'll do this again. We'll talk wide receivers tight ends next time. Beautiful. Take care you too. All right. Giants fans we think met Waldman for spending some time with us. That is our show for today. We hope you enjoyed it as we said during the show we will have met back again to talk wide receivers and tight ends, please. Remember to subscribe to big blue view radio on all of your favorite podcast applications? Make sure you're also listening to the show's done by Chris phlegm and Dan position to please. Remember if you haven't signed up to participate in the community at big blue view dot com. Do that. All right. Thank you giants fans, and we'll talk to you soon. Bye. Bye. Now. Hello. It's me Ashleigh Carmen. I'm Caitlyn too. And we are the hosts of the virgin podcast. Why'd you push that button. It's a show. The asked them hard weird occasionally dumb questions about how your tiny tech decisions impact your socialites. So we're asking questions like how do you choose your skin tone emoji? And why do you delete your tweets every episode? We talked to both users and experts to get to the bottom of these questions that we're confronted with every day. Check it out scribe too wide you push that button on apple podcasts, Stitcher Spotify or anywhere else. You love to get podcasts.

giants NFL Dwayne Haskins Peyton Manning Dave Gettleman Josh Rosen CBS Mark Scofield Pat Shurmur Daniel Jones NCAA Patrick Mahomes Jared Goff Greer Brett Rippin Matt Eli manning football Russell Wilson Barkley
Episode 23: AFC Team-by-Team Notes

Establish The Run

35:15 min | 1 year ago

Episode 23: AFC Team-by-Team Notes

"Eddie Yeah definitely dealing with some you know some misfires from Lamar and those are going to happen and also dealing with injuries too you know we talked about this are- of of Etr so far Week one was really good but I think that this was probably our best week lots and lots of hits recently it hasn't been that great but now they're home verse Cincinnati so arguably one of the nut spots if not the nut spot what you see out of Baltimore this past week right now with so much of the season in the books already use Promo Code Etr twenty if you WANNA check it out to advantage of that we have weekly offering we have a monthly option as a lot of fun stuff going on me having my best season long team in the history of season-long teams in Free League is is not something that that is good but we will go team by team through the AFC with our thoughts and this'll be free just a small sliver as always of the content slash information we're putting out on a week to week basis but you know I'm happy to do it for for the kids whatever for the charity and the Scott Fishbowl okay this episode episode twenty three by fellow Co founder the man himself it is of course an Silva added what's going on buddy what's up man coming off probably the best week in the history I I already got seven games written up for the for the matchups column so yeah I'm I'm energy energized we've got fourteen orbits articles have been really helpful in his rankings so so yeah anyways good over there check it out code ETR twenty twenty percents off all right let's get to it with the AFC. Evan and we'll start with the Baltimore Ravens I would note that Hollywood Brown did leave this gate briefly with an ankle injury did come back later it doesn't sound like it's anything serious but but something the target distribution is very very narrow with Mark Andrews and Murky Brown and then it's just the rest of the guys you know it's Nick Boil and Hayden her that I'll be watching also mark injuries continues to be limited in terms of his playing time but again team high seven targets and whatever you think about Baltimore in the way they've played India fast is a great deal last week will fuller goes off Shawn Watson goes off Calvin Ridley Heads Zach urge finally gets in the end zone the got himself goes do twenty three of the official established the run DOT COM podcast. My name is Adam Levitan I'm one of the cofounders here and Etr as always I'm episode twenty four will cover the NFC and be behind the pay wall I would also note if you are not a member here establish the run we are running a twenty percents off sale as you mentioned in our chat we know how to grind out wind is number nine out of twelve hundred Scott Fishbowl Ryan Reynolds stories they're not going to be as efficient as passing offense Mark Andrews again his usage has been the same really has not leveled off he had waiver wire guy and I we have team in there where number one thirty six we lost Andrew Luck our one thirty six hundred twelve hundred so we're feeling pretty good we put up but a couple of big scores Venus quarterback last week against them in a kind of a difficult spot at one pm eastern time on the road for for Arizona so now the the ravens going back nine for this week this is the total nut spot against Cincinnati mean they have just been getting absolutely creamed by opposing offenses Collar Murray was a top six occurs again. Eagles defence delivers often Exeter fifteen catches a we have a foreign one team in the football guys championship team itself is not very good but mccomb catching him at home after a bad loss by Cincinnati I think that the Ravens are are going to count them into Sand Elsa just stayed in Silva's matchups are cash game pool Friday night show by low model and a ton other stuff brandon's article I think has been really helpful zone Bhai this is like the baby evidence hype this week I can tell me what are we yeah it's been a great week for sure I in Willie snead and they have a button in my miles boykin they've got a bunch of other guys insularity guys but there are two clear guys top in both of those guys are battling injury was like man are they gonNa Free Robert Foster here but I don't think that's what's going to happen I kind of think they're gonNA stick with Beasley John Brown and then some type of Mackenzie and yeah this is his third season we know what he is at this point and he's not good football and yet it clears room for Isaiah Mackenzie really the football okay let's go to buffalo and kind of a under the radar trade a bit of a surprising trade they traded away Zeh Jones in my first thought was to the raiders in my first Jackson's GonNa end up as a top five famous quarterback he even coming off you know he's leveled off since the first two games as we talked about he had the the optimal for you rent thirty routes last week that's excellent Markey's brown tweaked in Angola John Harbaugh said on Monday that it was just just a tweak and he's going to be fine did you games matchups but he started level off but he's still been good in fantasy and I think he's going to have a monster week this week yep floors are so high with the way he runs so I think that'll be sort of like an in practice competition of when he returns but yeah I mean the guys at the top clearly John Brown and Williams and and it's not going to be the free of Robert Foster sadly but they're on a by what did you think of the trade and how do you think that affects buffalo if at all Alan late last year and capitalizing a lot at the four K. range on decay sad he didn't get a chance this year maybe he will though his skill set that was a bit redundant with John Brown and John Brown bakers uncomfortable a why isn't Freddie Kitchens leading todd MFN Mahnken call the plays Why are they not getting the when you're starting Tyler Boyd on Tate Alex Ericsson Tower for teachers so slow and you act explosion it's just hard to make any place at all so it's really auto delmore I've heard people asked us I got a question on twitter they want us to talk about he was offered James Connor in exchange for Odell Beckham I would so you know even though he was facing Arizona he did not hit and he's just not not a guy that you can rely on because they put so many limitations on match common I've been writing for weeks that they needed like just downgrades eight Jones administers averaging three point eight yards per target users he's not I mean he clearly I mean you as much as I love Robert Foster John Branches significantly better player so we'll see on that as they go into a by the bengals have been God home against Zona and it still takes garbage time for Andy Dolan to get there I think as expected Howard Boyd was obviously a really really good play but like when you're starting and I love tyler personally rather have Odell Beckham still but man the schedule was not great Evan I mean they'd had a heart schedule ready and now they come up against Seattle New England Denver Buffalo Offer Cincinnati now I mean Ericsson is actually hurt now also so mandate or just an absolute mess and now they go down to Baltimore I B to catch for twelve yards yeah I absolutely love Robert Foster Robert Foster was like kind of the will fuller play of last year just getting so many air yards from Josh hard pressed to be excited about anybody on Cincinnati and and you know even all intake was still out there on waivers I wouldn't even be that excited about that and one guy who did one being a trap play as we kind of talked about late in the week was tyler affer he only played twenty seven percents of the snaps this past week in he ran fourteen route Adam is a gadget player has been really good in that role but I think that they will settle on a third receiver at some point it might be Duke Williams robber fosters not played the last two weeks due to a groin injury? Yup It's fairly sad for the bengals right now okay the browns man this is an interesting situation because it's just the same story every week bakers under pressure you know I I don't know I mean I think we can poke some holes in that defense but I'm not seeing an immediate turnaround for the browns offense what do you think a minimum major major hot take this week saw by Yeah Oh daddy daddy clean either but I think that he is going to have a very clean pocket this week and I think that we see a little bit of a bounce back actual talk about that as the Kobe's notches playing a lot he's actually number six in the NFL among tight engine routes run over the last two weeks but it didn't do a whole lot less last week I did not work out I don't know man anything on Denver well I think that it's possible that we're starting to see it goes on I mean one thing that we can say for sure is that San Francisco's defensive line. I mean in Brandon highlighted this in his article last week I mean they're defensive line and everybody got bidding fire but brain thorns offensive line versus defensive line mismatches when you are deciding on defensive plays man make sure that you are looking at that L. Than James Connor right now right Yes yes definitely take that trade you know and again you know just as much as as pat's pace see the slowdown of Emmanuel Sanders she's been held to ten yards or fewer in two of his last three games he's thirty two years old he's coming off torn Achilles he played a season low sixty Gotcha ups in this game is how little pressure Seattle is generating and how how bad Baker Mayfield has been under pressure now he's not been very good when he's been kept and I'll go much more in depth in the match ups com that you can read at established a Red Dot Com but one thing that really stood out to me when looking at the three percent of the snaps last week and the chargers showed more respect the court in certain by putting Casey Hayward on Cortlandt Sutton now in I'm with you that I have yet to play him in daily fantasy for basically the exact same reasons that you mention this game this week I think Tennessee Denver seventy yard catch and run to the house in the first quarter last week any finish with four for ninety two and a touchdown in a game where Casey Hayward chased on over eighty with the browns as their offensive line so yeah maybe if you run into teams who can't who Cleveland offensive line can maintain against I will see better results and yeah you would rather have Colonel Sanders having like the quietest second year breakout year in the NFL He's got eighty seven plus yards in a touchdown four or five games he took a I mean like a Baker situation I don't want him harass the whole game yeah we'll talk we mentioned James Connor we'll talk about the Jalen Samuels injury when we get to Pittsburgh on Ziauddin Booker was talking about it I mean we've been talking about all year they invested so much draft capital I mean they were dominating Cleveland's offensive line and that was the question since day one with yeah this is GonNa be a fun game I think I think the Cleveland Seattle is going to be a fun game And I I think at the Brow I think the Brown show up this week what one thing that Tom just as much as the Bilo airy column you know probably not as much as your props column because what are you tending over the last two weeks like Adams stories high ceiling because no no one wants to play him for the same reasons that we just mentioned but yeah Philip Lindsay was a baller this past week still got out the Texans downfield passing game was not clicking entering week five all of a sudden boom it clicks now that goes on tape that's something that's Steve's by Denver on a weekly basis I struggle to find options with Denver you know Lindsey and and whereas Freeman or splitting it and and I know I'm never excited to play the way that they used him a lot last year which was I mean a high volume target for Shawn Watson underneath it turned out Kiki only ended up playing like thirty one ad because I think there are two three golden nuggets every single week coming from that call agree I like to look at it too when I'm making my quarterback decisions just 'cause projects is slow and plodding and boring and I probably won't be playing any CORTLANDT Sutton again but he's a he's a great a great tournament play each and every week hello is going to have to worry about now like really really worry about and you know even I mean Kikuchi like he made big plays in the game refer seventy two so and the chiefs pass rush has is has been nonexistent especially from Frank Clark he's been totally all right let's go to Houston and Kenny stills out I thought that he kouteh would be more of an every down player I thought they'd go three wide a lot and and use Kiki now though by Rusch Freeman for the second straight game and rich Ganger Ella their new OC is like pot committed to this to man our BBC Yep a bust so far for them and then they lost Chris Jones who has the one guy who has been generating pressure on the interior their offense vine he's week to week with a groin injury right after the game like the teams are tilting coverage toward De'andre Hopkins what the Texans were not able to do in the first four games is get production from other guys but all of a sudden now they do so what goes around comes around and now defense are GonNa be worried about will fuller because the the so it's still like Kiki but obviously the floor is way way way lower if he's being used like that they do play Kansas City next them and so everybody seventy snaps I'd only ran twenty routes on thirty seven to Shawn Watson dropbacks so they went with a lot of two tight end sets of Jordan's dared fells manual sanders and maybe I should be playing more courts sutton but but I haven't been mainly because of you know I don't have a Lotta respect for Joe FLACCO 's ability to find ceiling games I did play some fan so this this is going to be an absolute bombshell shootout and I I don't know it'll be interesting to see if Kenny stills fan of the place he's got the most air yards on the team at three hundred seventy I think that he's an every week wide receiver to in season-long Leagues needs to be excited Do you have any words encouragement for John Jay Hopkins owners what did you see with Houston the tech the other touches receivers talked about now I'm not worried about him at all I mean look what you needed you got exactly what you need last week from Willfuller Kikuchi making big come out of this by healthier I think the Jacoby has surpassed anyone's realistic expectations maybe like twenty five percent owned in the maker by like you know looking at things like air yards and percentage of a team's targets and where players run routes etc etc can lead you to things like we'll for think so so yeah okay let's get to the colts they are going on by I believe but man I mean when they're playing good has low and welcome to episode let him rip it a little bit more not not a ton in this past game but his has attempts were on a weekly upward trajectory in their previous four-game so this offense like really to stay needed to get healthy ty with the quad he he wasn't right and Marlin Mac even has missed a bunch of practice time recently with the ankle in the cast so they're gonNA come comes back or no I'm not worried one iota about deandre hopkins he still had a solid game where do you have like seven for eighty two or something I don't know something in that range show yet he ended up clicking MARLA MAC but everybody got to see on Sunday night what he can do when it's in a game situation anything on that or anything else on the colts as they go into their by himself considering the contract that he signed was like you know the cheapest starter in the league contract and they this kind of gotten better by the week and the colts with an absolute monster win on Sunday night the Jacksonville Jaguars may have found yeah one of the things that you know I'm always trying to stay on Evans country and we're all trying to concentrate on his see beyond the standard box score and I think people are like you know I think a lot of people ball and when they have leads Marlow Amac is just the beasts the problem for me with Marla Maga's every time I go to click on my mic but wait what if the codes fall behind and I'm just totally dusted so I rarely John Hopkins going forward now that that stuff is on tape yep and I would agree Deandra akrons would be a very interesting buy low if anybody is tilted and selling it aw not not everybody a lot of people are like Oh my God will for this was out of nowhere this was shocking you know and if you see DFS players were obviously on it we'll darren fellows kept Couple touchdowns you needed to other guys to step up and make life easier on behalf the under Hopkins life has to be he clearly has something going on with garments you do you think this is legit. I didn't hear a lot of chatter about DJ chart coming out of school I'm not sure why considering he was sell something in Dj Shark I mean twenty second round pick he seeing seven half targeted game obviously he's GonNa regress off his five touchdowns already through five weeks yeah a regarding tyreek hill to try to gauge how this wide receiver core is going to work out Travis Kelsey is due for a ton of positive regression at this point and I think that we're gonNA see him a monster game coming up real soon maybe not as soon as this week give us pringle take if you have one I mean can we actually can we actually against Houston this week I mean I think that he's a low end rb to high end flex play against the Texans and then as you mentioned we're just GonNa have to wait on news they gave him to end zone targets on their first drive he was the guy playing in scoring position I think that they see him as their best all around back seemed to be more focused on Damian Williams so I thought that was notable and then also I mean the injury situation Sammy Watkins goes down and they were left with Demarcus Robinson you now he's going to go up against Marshon lattimore in week six and you know it's going to be interesting because Marshon lattimore in the first three games go as a prospect so we'll see what the status on Tyreek Hill and Sammy Watkins for this week obviously I mean one of the biggest storyline fantasy is going to be injuries in Houston allowed the most yards in most catches among NFL quarterback cornerbacks in the last two you shutdown Amari Cooper and then do segued Mike Evans at the end of our tears in the draft kit recall so he's been kind of on the radar he's just been buried and he's going to need tyree the optimistic about this guy if tyree can sam you're out yeah I mean look I think you can be optimistic but any member of the chiefs of Receiver Core Byron pringles it'd be coordinated and by pringle who I know people are making fun of his name and everything I mean I think I heard Matt Waldman some other guys actually be excited about Byron but I think they want Damian Williams to be there you know sort of Lee back in a committee and he came out of that game with no setbacks can be going but I I would be shocked if the saints do not put Marshall Lattimore on DJ sharp The Kansas City chiefs we finally got a glimpse of them with all three of their running backs Yeah Matt Waldman liked him he's like I wanna say like six one two hundred Iran really really fast coming out of college undrafted guy we did have in our so it you know in the panthers last week did not shadow a DJ shark with James bradberry which was probably a mistake on their part they did end up winning the game in Kansas City because that is the game at his most likely to shoot out what can you tell us about pringle and what did you think about the way the running back situation went yeah I mean if someone sometimes they work and sometimes they don't really a lot of times they don't work but what Dj Shark it's definitely working in his second season and I mean I expect to success to continue so you know there there's really like not even a lot of tape on on on these LSU receivers like good tate because so many uncatchable balls and so few gets so can you use like all star Games and you know just be like workout metrics to evaluate them and you know they to miss and then he's going to need no Sammy Watkins and then all of a sudden he's in three receiver sets and he's very very much in play in a game that probably GonNa end up healthy and then I mean Damien Williams you have to be somewhat encouraged it sucks because they played all three and and McCoy and Daryl Williams got fourteen snaps but they barely touch the ball I mean they were who has a decent amount of Damian Williams regrettably to this point but still trying to stay optimistic about it I think the takeaways positive you know you did not play in two weeks the Carey's were twelve to three fever of Melvin but in all of the passing situations it was awesome awesome lineup I widen the slot time also I mean finished the game with sixteen targets is obviously absurd like the charges were getting beat and they were kind of in that Philip rivers mode where they were just checking down check down check down even on in just out carry him twelve to three and then I thought big Mike Williams usage was was fine I mean you know he came back and he played almost every snap you know he saw like your your offense is functioning at a very very high level you don't need to come in and force this issue with Melvin Gordon after he hasn't been the target he lined up in the slot so that was encouraging what did you see out of the chargers the chargers deserve to lose this game and just the the guy that makes the offense work most smoothly I think that optimally they would continue to involve the show McCoy because he's played really well for them sixty point out all right the Los Angeles chargers and we gotta look I wouldn't call it a good look because of the way the game went where we gotta look at The Melvin Gordon Austin equitor split we are leagues but you know he did not have a big game by any means but they they were moving at different speeds I mean Melvin Gordon was stuck in mud in this game had maybe one ask drive of the game when they're no chance to win Equa call four or five balls so I didn't think it was a good look at how it'll go going forward but it wasn't that encouraging for accuracy Mel from how much they were trying to force the issue Melvin Gordon that was a huge huge mistake on their part and I think it was a predictable mistake you talked about late in the week you'd want positive touch like one good run for like seven or eight yards and beyond that was he was entirely ineffective wasted touches givens with you for months at this point and they did that I mean Melvin Gordon got like I five to seven touches of the game was completely sigmund bloom that we always talk about in these guys don't make rational decisions so you know now they're facing the steelers Gordon and that's why they need to let this situation sort of play out but of forcing issue with him but that's the assumption of rational coaching hat tips ineffective did not every time you know he's he often echoed him playing at different speeds on the field often didn't have a big game by any means except for they're coming out of there by it's interesting I would normally just completely brush it off but the dolphins are playing the redskins this is the one spot where like they might actually be would've have some success and I do think Josh Rosen gives them a better chance at that success Albert Wilson is also expected back so I expected three wide set to be devante Parker yeah I mean I really haven't been even taking this This dolphins offense seriously on a weekly basis because you know for for fantasy Houston acuras playing so well in the force issue on Sunday and they lost and they deserve it yet now Anthony Lane is a donkey for sure Okay let's go to the Dolphin because they just haven't been scoring I and I haven't totally dove into the Washington Miami game yet but I do think that this might be the repressed Williams and Albert Wilson like you could certainly do worse I guess This this dolphins redskins game is going to be comical I don't know we're going to have to kind of see how it plays out see if we can get some more coaching commentary. Although Anthony Limbs late week coaching commentary was like I don't need to force the issue with Melvin Gordon because last week so yeah I mean no wrecks and adding the fullback in certainly been good for Sony Michelle massive step forward for Sony Michelle because week the press in Williams Week that Daddy Love Yeah and Albert Wilson is somebody that a lot of people Iran twenty pass routes with no rex burkhead this past week in as you mentioned three targets three catches for thirty two that is a huge addition to his Oh really like I don't know how healthy years or whatever but he's at least somebody to mind right and we did have him in waiver wire this week as a potential ad for sure in and now they're going back home to face yet what looks like is going to be a non competitive giants team they're favored by seventeen this is Eddie performance the Patriots I mean guy there catch this giants team that are just so banged up. Obviously it's going to be an excellent spy for Tom Brady will see the mystic onset Michelle scoring touchdowns against the giants and getting fifteen to twenty carries once again it's Sunny Michelle actually I believe actually caught three passes or something crazy like that and we could use a fullback on forty two percent of our snaps in week five which was the most that they used fullback since week one and that was obviously really good for Sony Michelle so a huge huge edition season I snaps forty nine percent season-high rushing yards ninety-one Seni- target season-high routes run season I- NPR points Rexburg head plays we'll see it felt plays I think one thing that Dwayne noted in his utilization calm this week is the Patriots decide hey you know we don't have James Devlin but we do have Jacob Johnson jets darnold clear man he's ready to roll roll okay yeah so this this could be like an actual decent game if the ball and their defense is going to give up so many passing yards so yeah we had jamison crowder very high on our list of ads if he was dropped in your league on the showdown slates and I actually had been terrible on the showdown slates I didn't really know how to play in recent years started

Cincinnati Etr Baltimore Eddie Mark Andrews Sunny Michelle AFC Hollywood Brown giants Baltimore Ravens Patriots browns Shawn Watson India Evan Melvin Gordon Lamar Silva Co founder Nick Boil
The QB Scho Show #36: Kirk Cousins & The Popes

Bleeding Green Nation

33:53 min | 1 year ago

The QB Scho Show #36: Kirk Cousins & The Popes

"This is Jim from the step over the bars podcast talking seventy sixers tune in his office he's my co-host maximize talk next steps and solar recovered from sixers raptors game seven over a span of many many months were listened back to old episodes and make fun of how wrong we starve to death or something like that like just a few that come to mind off the top of my Norwich goes on the next to Pope Stephen V and force amiss died in their bed welcome into the QB's go show this is empoisoned then when this failed to act quickly enough they hammered in his skull at so might that's pretty awkward when your own entourage your own flock basically wants to hammer in your skull kind of like your old wide receivers openly questioned in your ability assassinated and were still by priests from his own entourage according to the annals of the Abbey Fulda they I gave and with his successors Hadrian successor John The eighth was at least energetic but also had the dubious distinction of being the first pope to be is after John The eighth there's Leo the Lille up there's John The ten but Bennett Benedict is six was strangled who said to John The fourteenth I think he was hope which Norwich does talk about what we're not get into that but he talks about the period of time after Nicholas one which was basically just a disaster in terms of the Pope and the papacy eight fifty five to nine sixty four the chapter is interestingly enough titled Nicholas One and the pornography which is extremely interested but it covers the period of time yes the porn on so thirty six brought to you by the Bronco espy nation and bleeding green nation. I'm your host Michael Kissed you can follow me on twitter at Michael Kissed. NFL K. I s. t. and as always I am joined hyphen daughter excommunicated him for the second time in his career now it gets really fun Mike Even Hadrian this guy that we were just talking about who was a mess was a paragon in comparison throw the football downfield on podcasts and the like it so that might bring us to kirk cousins they might WanNa club them to death like hamburger but on the order of successor Stephen The six the body of force amiss was assumed in March eighteen ninety six eight months after his death clothed in pontifical vestments on News Channel Eight Hair John Julius Norwich pokes which is again it's it's a fantastic book and we're GonNa read from Chapter Seven which covers the period of Qb one in my heart here breakdown some performances from the Eagles and also taking a look at the upcoming enemy of quarterback will be talking about kirk cousins later but first I want to talk about Mark Scofield mark how're you doing buddy I'm doing well Mr Kissed always a pleasure to be with you and as always you start with a little history back to the pope's holding up so everybody could see took the name of Hadrian's the second he squandered only five short years virtually all that Nicholas gained yielded to Archbishop Hick Mar restoring community Kin l'affaire now back with US MR as Norwich Rights Nicholas marks a watershed he was the last part of any ability or integrity to occupy the chair of Saint Peter for a century and a half his successor in elderly Claire off not a crime today not unpredictably he was found guilty all his acts including his ordinations were declared null and void a judgment they caused indescribable confusion and his body propped up on a throne at subjected to a mock trial on charges of perjury and of coveting the papacy he was said to have accepted the see of Rome while still bishop of another diocese which is interested in the pretty much all the time it was play action boot play action boot there was a toss in there there's a play action boot screen like this is the formula for the Vikings offense game against Oakland primarily what they wanted to is set up three level reads four cousins off of boot where you get the vertical the intermediate cross aboard their quarterback. Let's talk about uh some kirk cousins we'll go at Kirk I we can we can save whence for later why not mark I was doing prep for for this game in one of the first Games I watched was down this is what they do primarily they were you know now four games and five games in we know what teams WanNa be for the most part and they want to be a team that runs the ball and allow vulgarity to slip back into orthodoxy not content with undoing virtually all the hard work of Anastasius he even accused in a spacious of complicity in the murder of his former the the newest one against the giants with Vikings and we were talking about this before the show you watch the Vikings offense there early scripting Kinda tells you what they want the offense I'm sure they would show us if we had access to that data which I couldn't imagine having is that their screen heavy team and they like you said they wanted to a ton off of boot you look at the but love to have those numbers the percentage of times that they actually throw screens and run screens would be fascinated for casillas study like that I don't know if there's anybody out there gentle listener murdered by the jealous husband of the woman with whom he was in bed these these these ps fuck there there are I did we haven't even got to the pornography part of this chapter which I read last night which is again hurt the eagles that way as I think overall despite this not being a boombastic passing attack to this point I think they can still definitely hurt you what are your overall feelings of how cousin for him the highest it's been for him since two thousand fourteen the quarterback rating is solid he's played solid the completing is saw the last time the eagles played kirk cousins Walker she went up to actually save the bulk of that pornography for a later date but this covers the period of time after the rumored Pope John yes there is a rumor of a female screen which they did early against the giants where you go wide zone to the left you boot right and throwback to Dolphin Cook screen to the left they will do some leak with the tight ends acetate but we'll save that for another day yeah that's Russell Wilson film that's the porn accuracy we're gonNA talk talk nudo mode game tape film let's talk about these wide receivers wanted to assassinate there maybe just a friend that could give us those kind of numbers maybe somebody cool like keep them Abdur or somebody can tweet it out just somebody could tweet it out gentle listener could just tweak that poorer out in then a guy in the flat and give them those nice designs but they had a beautiful design against Oakland where they went outside the right he boosts the left off of it and Adams so called dumb ape there's a lot of popes that were like strangled then poison to this actually goes on talks about some of the as you know I was I was very worried about the play action but I was also surprised to see how much quick gain they used because of the way that the eagles deployed their coverage in cousins was very effective and he it up the three level stretch to the left but he stays across the formation. It's almost like a throwback wide open so they will they will do some throwback stuff as well they go throwbacks there's not Baker Mayfield's but there are bakers chefs okay and the chef types of the guys that if you've ever liked cooked dinner or something like that you know that yeah you might have Wanna go outside zone they WANNA really quote unquote establish the run and then build in play action passes off for that screens off of that so the way I'm seeing cousins right now or is he hasn't had a whole lot of it smith couch caught Rudolph where they come down the line of scrimmage away from the boot and then released vertically we sometimes see that with Kitto in the forty niners but that's what they WANNA do they wanna go wide zone you know Ed guys like you might say Baker Mayfield as a chef you know where he can sort of create outside structure Brett Farve a chef he can sort of create oh kirk cousins isn't thrown a ton of passes right now they're run heavy team to want to give you a ton of wide zone outside zone and they want to build in play action boots off of that they do a ton in the screen sometimes when you were watching him you could see him going through the mental pre snap post nap checklist from the playbook step by step he had a play open and he sees it coming out of play action all used to do short up his drop step not take the hedge and get the ball out quickly and he's got a big completion but he goes Taus played to this point in the season you know if you remember this off season Mike there is a debate that played out on the twitter sphere ball causes sense people wondered where he recipe don't really stick to it you might add more garlic might add more sauce might add more butter whatever it is you don't really go step by step but if you've ever tried to bake a cake needed if these designs like we're talking about these throwbacks these boots and things like that are there he's fantastic and they could be successful in the passing game or this is a quarterback and I actually waited into that debate I'm as I usually don't do because I saved takes for the articles because nobody really the articles people read the takes on the Tomlin though and I don't WanNa get me do things differently Aaron Rodgers chef those five type RPO's we were talking about a couple of weeks ago kirk cousins is a big he adheres to that he will go step by step attempts man like this is this is a heavy run team because of that his stats are a little bit low but when you look at the efficiency of them and you know the the yards per attempt are pretty high off the trouble but I waited into that one with a piece over Matt Waldman site where I made the analogy of if you look at quarterback play their Baker Phelan who's in the slot shows you like he might run that deep blaze outward comes to the middle of the field of that Miami route like Shannon and calls it when it comes to the middle of the field and breaks to the outside you think he's going to run that minus three fingers of his right hand that he had used to give blessings was flood into the Tiber I love it that's sub spite man if they're like dig you up to put you on trial John that small just sort of deviate from the recipe or deviate from what he's asked to do and create that's when he struggles and so I think that's the Task Schwartz this week is to make him deviate to the script Kinda guy but overall wouldn't you look at cousins this is a guy that you might have some swings in his plays some ups and downs when they come in with a good game plan and the defense looking like the eagles secondary does right now with some question marks with it he can hurt you right yeah he could definitely hurt you and the two weeks ago against Chicago where there were basically a mills concept he gets Tampa to look the middle linebacker carries days on the inside vertical route so that day row comes through and carries out every single step of the drop he takes the hitch like the playbook says and then he throws in a by then it's too late and so that's the frustrating thing if you're vikings fan watching there's a lot on this show and elsewhere the double moves against this defense particularly work and well and so you could I anticipate some scheme shot sometimes off play action sometimes not with is the offense he knows defenses he knows coverages and all that sort of stuff Brett Farr for street-smart Brett Farve didn't know what a nickel defense was you didn't know what nickelback was but he remind lawn priests now again if cousins knows exactly what to do with the ball he sees an uncapped defender he soft coverage he sees a big cushion and you get a little heavy with the baking soda or a little heavy with flour sugar your route and things you can't really go off script and if you think about quarterback play there a bakers in their shops like we saw last year when these teams played or other times these teams played when the quick game stuff is there because of the way short corners plan off if they're gonNA give him that pre snapple take it but if he's forced and Falk is rolling to the outside and Brain Graham is straightness face causes a poor throw nate gary picks it off for a pick six the eagles are gonNA need a ton of that stuff against image and releases the flat you're ridden that route I the so if you have the ability whether it's Barnett or whomever the sort of stay home sort of set that edge to get into his they'll have a good chance at slowing down this office yeah and I think a big part of this is going to be the defensive end sued Barnett and Brandon Graham for as much as the struggles that the eagles some double moves built into sort of take advantage of what they do like you said they have a wellness Minnesota offense to go some quick game stuff to sort of take advantage of how the defensive second have had against play action they had their ends play the boots really well Brandon Graham for example the play last week against Luke Falk where it's fourth and one I've listened to cousins breakdown stuff and do the chalkboard thing and everything like that me sounds incredibly intelligent and is that a it's almost to a point where it's cousins it's led you know that if he just deviates from the recipe that tiniest bit times they can be successful but he just goes through everything step by step Schwarzenegger's secondary so it's a matter of again can Schwartzberg sort of make him deviate make him think make him play off script if they do that talk you've got to incredible route runners and digs and Phelan and these guys are going to pose problems for most every single secondary national football league and you could see we talk about defense out against Kirk cousins when we come back here on the QB's go show we're GonNa talk some Carson Wentz and we're gonNA take a look around at the rest of the League's well maybe even get into a little I know you guys know that I hate has no qualms just throwing a hitch and let guys get yards after the catch it of Schwartz's going to give him that hill take so he put that together there are certainly ways at this office could pose problems for no politics just sports real sports fans the best news of all it's free I don't mean free for a week or a month or if you have some special cable package is quickly as he comes out of that fake you're GonNa take that throw away because either he's GonNa be under such pressure that he can't make it or you just gotta be in that throwing lane anyways so to take that detriment because he's so into how everything is ordered and this is how we do things and you're right you bring great points they're like he eats very St Sports HQ Today Hey Spencer Hall I'm Holly Anderson I'm Ryan Nanny I'm Jason Kirk and we're the brought to you by CBS sports HQ so much of Sports TV nowadays is full of made up trauma it's a bunch of hot takes from people who don't even believe what they're saying just beating the same topics read away then we'll get into that where possibly forcet him to deviate from the script a bit so a big time game needed by Brandon Graham and Derek Barnett and the other defensive ends to help this uh-huh yeah because look the way they designed these relatives they want to throw water high most route concepts read in high to low but if you look at these concepts you're actually ooh those ends have to do job of getting into his face showing him some chaos taken those quick throws away get an amount of pressure to take that first it to be confident only on the nation podcast network any time from anywhere on your phone or at home on your apple TV Roku or fire TV it couldn't be easier download the CBS sports APP and watch this news highlights previews and reactions to all the on field action fantasy sports experts will give you the info you need to make the right calls for your lineup no fake debates kissed here with Mark Scofield Mark Let's talk about winslet's do our weekly doctor's visit with Carson Wentz not the most robust for the MVP to debate but I've I've got a I've got an MVP favourite right now that I can't wait to talk about that's coming up next here on the cubes go show this episode is fleeing the booth early and unfashionable pants that coaches where now if you want to take college football exactly as seriously as it should be taken subscribe for free on around but CBS sports cues to change all that it's a network that streams live twenty four seven in their coverage is just focused on the game they bring you the it's totally completely free for everybody you don't even need a log in just sports for real sports fans just open the CBS sports APP and watched everything from cooking disasters to pro wrestling too unfashionable pants worn middle school we also do talk about college football every now and then like mascot fights announcers I'll get into that in a second but I think there's another way to look at it is the difference between Book Smart and Street Smart Right Causes Book Smart you know he knows so that's the first step to slowing that down and then leading the sort of coverage fill in behind it as you sort of read and react to the the play possibly flowing away from you so kid beat you because it's that sort of difference between just knowing how to play the game and knowing what you're supposed to do within the structure of an offense I think that's another way to look at the quarterback position now ask for this apple podcasts or in your favorite podcast APP and we are back on the QB's go show thirty six or bleeding cremation SP nation Michael and low to high you're reading that whether it's the tight end and Wayne chip it in releasing the flat weather it's that sift look what you show sort of Split Zone designing these cifs comes down the line of the shutdown forecast your avengers of college football podcast it says in the script terrific and what that means and basically what is already spoiled every Tuesday we talk about is towards the bottom of the Lee and even when you account for the Eagles leading the league and drops is still not greatness is starting to get this whole snowball effect to where one person brings performance against the jets but a good enough performance nonetheless you know that I was on ninety seven five the fanatic yesterday and they asked me about his completion percentage between which is creations of the secondary but I think they'd like to cover to cover four type team for the most part they will show you some safety rotation some more single high looks they have safeties that can spin it pretty well let's Alaska What do you got for me on Carson this week and I say this jokingly but it's time to hit the panic button on Carson Wentz I certainly think it is time to hit the panic I read your quick read whatever the way to go to the football like you said you take it like that's the job of the quarterback is to take what the Defense John Without the media asked once take what's there let the offense work for you which is what Doug Peterson quote read a scale the offense back to shots dot in there get the ball out quicker like for instance BFF Hasim as a second quarterback in the league still in the season by their grading but those are all just data points you put a bunch of them together and you throw in a big splash of film and you see what the matter of fact you guys need some help in the secondary so we'll give you Juwan Williams the Patriots Second Round Pick for Carson wentz consideration straight up 'cause look it's time to system quarterback or whatever you want phrase all quarterbacks are system quarterbacks like I have said that and I was probably my last words before I shuffled off this mortal coil all so you've got vertical elements you've got quick game elements on many of these plays the first thing the quarterback is told to do and the sort of recipes so to speak his picture this eagles playbook you flip through this play could you see the row concepts that are there a lot of them are designed to give the quarterback different out in different ways to answers to the questions it comes back or you play some teams that are bit weaker

John The Michael Kissed Norwich Nicholas One sixers Pope Stephen V twitter kirk pope Lille Jim Abbey Fulda John Julius Norwich Eagles NFL Baker Mayfield Vikings Bennett Benedict Oakland football
Graham Barfield

Fantasy Feast: 'Eatin

32:29 min | 6 months ago

Graham Barfield

"It's time to eat in my Marbella. Sit Down and get ready to consume an abundance of fantasy football knowledge from Ross Tucker and Joe, Dolan? Fantasy feast eaten podcast. Yeah, let's see baby is the fantasy fees eaten podcast and it is presented. By, fantasy points dot com use the code feast to get a discount, and then you proceed directly. To your email and forwarded to me Ross at Ross Tucker Dot, com, and say Ross I want to take down you and Joe who is and Joe. I'm Ross Tucker, former NFL offensive lineman five teams seven years now we got the five podcast going love. It love it. Love it raw soccer football podcast, even money which was terrific yesterday with my dude will Brinson. You should absolutely check that out if you not get in on the golf train golf betting is starting up again. And also the college draft podcast with Matt. Waldman always good business of sports is where Andrew Brandt absolutely dominates. He's Joe Dolan. He's the editor. Say Editor chief whatever you WANNA call them and co owner of fantasy points dot com with our Guy Tom Brolly from last week and John Hansen before that and today Graham Barfield. Who Literally invented US statistic I wish I had done that. That just sounds awesome. Inventing a statistic, we are given out winners. We love those of you by the way I'm just telling you guys right now. There's a lot of opportunity to go against us. In these best ball leagues that we're not getting as many entries this month as we did last month, so you guys all you need to go to fantasy points dot com. Put The code in Feast. It's free to sign up and send it to me Ross at Ross, Tucker Dot com, and you could be announced as the next two winners like Mo- Hinder Dick and Ari ingle hopefully I got both those names right. Hinder Dick Ari Angle. Add that to norm physiques. Ben Mullins Nathan Shoe Donny from last week and we're rolling. We're rolling. We already have five guys in. 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Cedar in, Cyprus. You gotta go ahead and try method man I mentioned last week. My wife loves it before first time I got the bottle before even put on. She's like method men. How'd you get this? Save fifteen percent with code feast when you buy online at method, men DOT com. That's M. E., T., H., o., d. m. e.. N.. DOT, com, visit method men DOT COM and get fresh. Make sure you use the code Feast Fancy Points Feast. Is the code well for the second weekend around maybe third week in a row I think I lost track. At this point. We have an absolute rock star from fantasy. points dot com this time Graham. Barfield, who is known for the yards, created metric that he has founded, and I want to get into that because that was interesting, Joe was telling me before the show. How you grind to get that. He is one of the do debt. Fantasy points DOT COM I. Don't know that we've ever met Graham. But just looking at your twitter profile I really don't like you very much because you have awesome hair like you've amazing hair, dude. Thank you so much Ross. Yeah I, don't I? Don't think I think this is our maiden voyage. It's nice to nice to meet you. Thanks for having me on Yeah, yards created has been. It's definitely a grind. That's certainly one way to put it Yeah, it's been this project I've undertaken now in the last five off seasons where? I basically chart any college running back coming into the NFL and. Try to find out some some fun things about how they how they went as players and excited. Talk to you guys about it today. Okay so let me dive a little bit deeper into that. Because, I've heard of this before but I want to have people understand what you actually do like. What does yard created mean? And how do you go about identifying for each player? Sheriff, yards created is the amount of yards running back gets on his own after the offensive line has or has not done its job, so the way to think of it is. On every play, the offensive line is opening up or not opening up holes in gaps for running back to get through in after the running back gets through the initial whole or creates behind the line of scrimmage to to get past the initial wave of the defense. Those are the yards that weren't back is creating on his own in the NFL when every player is. Super Athletic Superfast the margin, fair and the whole out small, even college football. There's something to be said. For players that are constantly creating on their own constantly you know making yards making moves on their own and enforcing the tackle, so I'm literally charting every every single play every single snap for six seven games pretty much half the season for usually about ten to twelve, running backs at the top of the Classen. It's. It's been a fun process. That's yielded some some good results so far. So. I'm sorry, Joe, yeah was just say how. How subjective! Is it. In other words, what's what sort of the margin of error and if Joe was like? You know what I'm. GonNa do a new stat called. Yards created two point. Oh and I'm going to do exact same thing gram does, but I'm going to what I'm just curious. How much of a difference you think that there would be. Probably a little bit. Football in in sports in general is an inherently subjective game I mean. If you just think about all the descriptive stats that we all talk about yards, receptions touched. Everybody agrees on those. But even a stat like yards after contact has drawn a lot of. Debate throughout the years simply because it's a subjective stat moral, using our is to measure it I'm sure if joe or anybody else yards credit a. Will probably would get some different results. The guys over at play, player profile or a chart yards gratitude, but they I think they do it a little bit different way. They treated as like any time running back Basically yards anytime runningback crates after they force tackle, so there's different different generations of yards created even out there and I, I think it's cool I think it's. A good a good learning tool for to think of running back in a different way. So? Graham I'm sorry. Rossa jumped all over you so excited to ask this question Graham. I think what one thing that's really important for people to understand is or for people to to know. You do this for college. Running backs coming into the NFL like you said there are differences, but my question is. Have you studied how predictive yards created has been for transitioning college player to the NFL, which obviously would have massive fantasy impact, or have you decided? It's been more descriptive, and and it hasn't really paid off for fantasy I. Know what the answer is, but I I WANNA make sure people understand what your process is here in how useful it is for fantasy football. Sure I think you know I went into this five years ago. Fully expecting it to be more of a descriptive thing like just basically scouting essentially. which players are creating more yards above? Expectation which players are forcing more miss tackles above expectation, and I think you know now that we have a five or sample I think we can say it's. It's fairly predictive. If you go to fantasy points dot com right now, click the research tab hit the yards created, but we have all the. All of the yards created on numbers up on site right now if you soar by yards, credit pretend to be look near the top of the the coffers here I mean it's it's a. who's who of the most talented backs other have come out the last couple of years Joe Mixed. Kenyan Drake Saquon Barkley Zeki will elliott all are in the top five of yards, creative tents. Alvin Kamara cream high Christian McCaffrey all near the top same with Dobbin Cook. I think done a pretty good job at not only identifying some of the top end rushers as clear cut best players in their class like saquon an like Zeke, but it's also illuminated some lower end. Guys Album Chimera cream on Christian McCaffrey. To a lesser extent, you know going deeper. Guys like Sony Michelle before he got hurt, were or good players that really popped in yards, created and You know there's definitely been some Mrs. In we can get into that too, but. By and large I think it's done a pretty decent job of illuminating. The most talented runners in the runners that are forcing the most miss tackles. Get into it for this year for the rookies. Who who's the WHO's the king? WHO's the guy from this year's group that set out to you in terms of? Yards, created. Yeah the number. One guy in the class was probably no one that you would expect Ross. Who was actually Anthony McFarland he? He led the class yards. Critic pretend at five point nine. That's actually right behind what Zeke did. We we can talk about Mcfarland a little bit. Wool will kind of transition flip back to the top five of this class in I'll start with with Jonathan Taylor for. Running back for the colts now he was fantastic at Wisconsin I. know that's not necessarily a bold take at all, but are doing my study I kind of went into it with. Guess a an idea that Wisconsin, offensive line the badgers kind of you know opened up more yards than you would expect in. You know. Taylor was a little bit of a product product of his office of line at scheme there but I kind of wasn't the case. Wisconsin actually opened up way. Fewer yards blocked per attempt in pretty much every back in this class like aged Dylan de Andrea, swift jk Dobbins Collider Brazil all had better off into blinds Taylor. In Taylor was dominant yards created. Fantastic. I, think he he's an underrated. Guy In terms of the not necessarily like a make. You miss type runner like lead over layer of. Christian McCaffrey was coming out, but certainly is strong in this tackles forced and. His credit metrics were fantastic. I mean huge, actually more efficient with out full back on the field, even though Wisconsin at afl back on the field on like a third of his carries an in this class, Taylor ranked third in yards, critter attempt shotgun, and he was first when Wisconsin had a quarterback under center so I I thought Jonathan Taylor was clear rb one coming into this class. Excuse me coming into the draft I expected him to be. One of the first two running backs off the board obviously play out that way, but I still went super early still went to a great landing spot. He is my number two running back in this class for for rookie dynasty drafts. Well let's get to the guy who I think's number. One gram and that's got to be quite Edwards Allaire and now play behind a really good offensive line I, think the LSU offensive line might be near the top ten. In terms of what you've ever charted, but even though his yards created metric is is mediocre, compared to some of the other guys I think according to your charging. He did a lot of things really well. That project exceptionally well to the Kansas City offense. So how do you feel about him from fantasy perspective? Absolutely. Not only charting every running play, also charting every passing play in Clyde Edwards layers pretty easily. The the best receiving back in this class in I'll take step further. He's one of the top three or four receivers that I've seen come out of college in. The five years that I've been doing this. I think he's. He's not in the Christian McCaffrey echelon, because no one else's Anne McCaffrey's in tier of his own as a receiver man ever delays really good I think he's under quickly. Talk about his running ability, because I think he's an underrated inside runner. In fact, he created more yards per attempt on his inside carries. DEANDRE SWIFT AJ, Dylan and Zach. Moss and all those guys are kind of. Expected to be strong inside runner so I. Think Edwards Brasileira has an underrated on inside running ability, even though he's, he's undersized, but. Man Like the what we want to see from him. This is catching passes out of the backfield and. I I. Frankly, I struggled to think of many backs out of McCaffrey. Who are better route runners than Edwards layer I mean. He was constantly creating separation for Joe. Borough making throws easy. Getting open at will against some of the best linebackers and safeties in the SEC. I absolutely loved Edwards Receipt Edwards `alerts are receiving ability and thought he had just a super super high floor coming into the drafts, simply because I knew he'd be heavily involved in the pass again, but now joe a we have this dream scenario where he gets drafted as a first running back drafted in the first round, pick goes to Andy Reid. Goes to the chiefs gets to play with Cuba God himself and Patrick, Mahomes and It's it's pretty much. It's pretty much exactly what you would want for fantasy in pretty much. Every back that we've seen in Kansas City play significant snaps. As been a topic running back, Jamaal Charles was. Top eight points per game back from back in two thousand and thirteen. Two Thousand Fifteen spins aware. A Nice little season to twenty sixteen when when Charles got hurt and kind of was nearing the end of his career and. Kareem Hunt was a topic. We're in Iraq. Two, thousand, seventeen, thousand, eighteen. We've all seen what Damian Williams has been able to produce healthy, so I'm very excited to see. How Edwards Allaire performs early into this year and I think. As the season progresses into twenty twenty, I think we'll see Edwards Allaire. Become a very very strong rb one simply because he will be just another mismatch nightmare fifth achieves to use underneath a pass catcher. So, here's a question. Graham that I'm understanding. So. I'm looking at your article. Fantasy points dot com I. Talk about all the time. Use The code feast. You sign up. You got the tier one. You call the Big Five. We've talked about Jonathan. Taylor you mentioned. Swift and Dobbins, but really dove into him yet. We got Edwards Hilar- you said earlier that the number. One guy in your metric was Anthony Mcfarland at five point, nine yards created per attempt I in the class yet. He's our B seven for you so I guess if I'm reading this article I'm saying. What am I missing like? You said it's predictive. The guy's number one. WHY IS HE R B seven if he's number one on yards created? Yeah those are I mean those are my I ranks so i. kind of you know I try to add in additional layers of context. Yes Anthony Macfarlane was very explosive on his touches. was a good runner in in terms of. Only yards created, but US I think fourth or fifth in the class and miss tackles forced, but. Rossi was never featured runner. At Maryland and coming in and watching his tape by I have the same questions I I, didn't know if he would be a guy that you kind of sent to your often surrounded in shovel, fifteen eighteen touches per game. I thought he might be a little bit of a change of pace back, so there's definitely a little bit of. Not only like. USAGE, usage kind of going into evaluations, but it's also like subjectivity to like how players profile and. You know I think having Anthony. McFarland seven pre-draft was kind of a bowl. Take I didn't really see McFarland anywhere near People's top tens and. I still have McFarland. RB seven now. These landed in a nice spot there in Pittsburgh to. Ramlet? Let's let's talk about some of your process. In terms of offensive line's vis-a-vis yards created so when you've done this and I'm sure this is something you've thought about quite a bit when you've done this process. Have you found that guy to play behind bad offensive lines or getting? More rewarded by your process and have you found that guys who played behind? Good offensive lines are getting more kind of dinged by your process and and my. My question would be here with Florida state because you know you and I both know both Alvin. Cooking camakers have had two of the worst offensive lines. We've seen for a major college program in the last number of years. Meanwhile, somebody like Derrick. Henry play behind an awesome offensive line and didn't rank so high on your metric. How do you deal with that? When you're when you're breaking down yards created and have you found? There's anything predictive in terms of. A guy playing behind a bad or good offensive line when it comes to the metric. Yes definitely I mean Obviously it's unlucky. That can makers and Tau Cook had to play behind just terrible often blinds or automate. If you again, if you pull up the research, TAB and fantasy points dot com I mean cam makers and talent cooker literally. Last and third from last in yards blocked. Pretend I'm so we. We know they struggle behind. Bad offensive lines and I think this yards created process kind of illuminates that are really gives good context to just how bad and it kind of gives a baseline to college football offensive line play one guy. In particular that I think is really interesting. Debate on this subject Joe is not clear from this classes last year's class. It's Durell Henderson. He was absolutely dominant behind a Memphis offense of line at Memphis scheme that that really opened up just massive running lanes for him, but he was still very explosive on his touches. I think this is this is a kind of an idea. I guess subject matter. I really haven't fully wrap my head around yet. Just balancing. Great offensive lines behind creative runners because. Josh Jacob's and Jacob Dobbins both had. Fantastic offensive lines like the top of my yards blocked metrics I mean both bags are highly creative in. Ranked really highly in terms of. Forcing this tackles on their own. Both were good receiver so I think it's one of those things with with offensive line. Play gotTA take. On a team by team basis in in really understand the team level context that went in behind that because. Sometimes, there's certainly teams where. Players have great off into plans and they still create yards above expected. And then there's times where you have a in Aj. Dylan Redeeming Harris type where they're behind a great offensive line, but they're less creative than you would expect. Yeah I. Guess That's that's what I wanted to know. I'd love to know any out liars. Particularly interested in Keyshawn Vaughn just going to the bucks with Brady and what you thought of him. I think everybody's interested in in Vaughan and what's GonNa? What's going to happen with this backfield? I liked what Keyshawn von was was. One of those guys were like I watched the first four or five games, and I was Kinda just like yeah I mean he can do everything pretty well. A, but he doesn't have really wants standout trait in the more that I watched. Actually went back and watched a few more games after I finished has yards credit sample just because they're landing spot? He got drafted a little bit earlier than I expected I kind of started liking him a little bit more. Simply because he played Kinda like camakers, he played on a really bad offensive line. Of there over there, Vanderbilt. Last year twenty two percent of his carries were stuffed pinal scrimmage for a loss that was like way low in college. Football is like one hundred tenth in the in the in the in college football in. He was contacted behind the line of scrimmage on a twenty seven percent of his carries a came makers. Was the most in the class. Use context behind long scrimmage on nearly. A third of carries, but keyshawn von was still very creative granted. It was kind of an boom bust way sort of similar to Tevin Coleman. But he was second in class yards, critic attempts, and the the thing I come back to with Vaughn the Ross in one of the things that I think Ronald Jones has a little bit of an edge over him. Is Is. Joe Is definitely more a laterally allusive. Eighty four percent of keyshawn vons missed tackles came from either just running past a defender or going through them with power. He just doesn't have a ton of wiggle. And ton of agility I think Ronald. Jones is certainly better in that sense, but. Manam Yvonne is. He's got the size. He's got the speed and attacking running style to be a feature back in the NFL and I think. You Know Bruce Arians. Heavily investing in Vaughan, kind of shows you. where he wants to go with his running game. Graham one of the more surprising picks of the NFL draft was of the Green Bay packers well other than than drafting a quarterback in the first round, it was then going back in the second round in the deepest wide receiver draft that we've seen in years and taking a power running back when you can make the argument that the running back position with Aaron Jones and Jamaal, Williams was the strongest on the entire team last year of the strongest position. Position on the packers roster I mean, and then they come in, and they take. Aj Dylan, in the second round out of Boston College, and I know he's a player that you personally struggled with when you were watching him. Matter of fact, you would think that Matt. LEFLORE would probably views him as a Derrick Henry type of runner and looking at their yards created metrics. Graham shockingly similar between AJ Dylan in two thousand and twenty and Derrick Henry Twenty. Number One, can you make sense of the packers Jay Dillon pick, and did you learn any lessons from charting Derrick Henry when it came to watching Aj Dylan trying to rationalize what the packers did with that pick. Yeah so all of the packers picks in. This draft were surprising. Very surprising. Yeah I aged Dylan definitely got some buzz in quite a few Derrick Henry comparisons in the pre-draft process simply because he ran four five at like two hundred fifty pounds i. mean he's got just freakish size speed ability, but I mean you mentioned is yards credit profile? Was not very good. It's not good to be a aback. That doesn't create many yards on his own in his reliant on his offense of line, and that's sort of what Dylan ends. I mean he was number. One in this class Boston college was number. One in this class and yards blocked pretend. In Dylan was near the bottom second from last in the yards, creative pretend he was also last in this tackles forced per attempts You know I really struggled with Dylan because to me. He seemed he just seems like a guy who is always going to get the yards that blocks for him, but not much else. I did not see anything remotely close to what we saw from Derrick Henry on tape at Alabama. I thought I thought Henry had better burst I thought Henry had just enough wiggle to get past. Guys and we've seen that in the NFL. I don't know Dylan has that. Certainly very fast and straight line. Certainly powerful runner can grind out hard yards in between the tackles, but yeah I did not expect to see Taylor go off the board in the second round of the NFL draft and. Definitely a little bit of a perplexing pick because. Jones. Every time we've seen him. He's been. Ripping off strong plays in it's been one of the best. And most talented runners. In the NFL since he's bleak, so I'm not really sure what Dylan's role it's. GonNa be. It's GonNa. Be Interesting it'll be. It'll be interesting to see how many carries. He doesn't actually taking away from her Jones. Our last one for you Graham and again encourage everybody to check out graeme on twitter at Graham Barfield. He is part of the fantasy points crew, and there's a lot of them and we love 'em. You have no Benjamin as our be ten. You have them at the top of tier three right after the aforementioned keyshawn Vaughn I headed. Guys like Antonio Gibson Aj Dylan Josh Kelley, etc.. Yet. Benjamin was dead last in the class at less than three point, five yards created per attempt. How do you? How does that happen? How's IT happened that a guy is so bad at your metric yet you have them ranked higher than these other guys. Yeah I mean I had. I've had so in that article that was before the draft item and rb. Ten I've got away lower now. And I had him in that here with Antonio, Gibson and AJ Dylan. I thought they were kind of. In the same boat in terms of draft, capital obviously didn't play out that way Benjamin, Wynn. In the seventh round I like to Benjamin as a pass Catcher, though and I thought he might go a little bit earlier drafts simply because he was a great pass Catcher, a super inconsistent as runner very sized. But I thought he would go a little bit earlier in today's modern fell. A lot of teams are looking for these satellite back, so you can catch passes out of the backfield and and compete in. Benjamin is look I mean he's not a highly creative runner. The met my metrics Kinda show that but. He certainly is highly competitive runner. A He always was trying to turn out extra yards on his own always trying to fight for a few extra. A few extra yards and he was a great pass. Catcher me. He was third the third in this class in targets per game, a number one in routes run per game, and he was running more routes more nuanced around sometimes inclined Edwards Larry Than definitely went super late in the kind of berries for fantasy and our purposes, but for that article I did have them at rb ten simply because I thought he'd go a little bit earlier. And I liked his pass, catching ability above AJ Dylan's and a I love Antonio Gibson's tape. But. We've just seen such a saul small sample from him. MEMPHIS that I, it definitely left meal little bit just not only wanting morning more wanting to see more of it also I think it kind of opens up a little bit more. Variants in his, you know range of outcomes as pertains, NFL, and how successful Hopi. Graham, really appreciate the time. Thank you so much for coming on the show us. Thanks for having me Joe appreciating them about the time that he puts into the Joe Graham is. Money. Actual money like a sign up bonus up to one thousand dollars. When you download the top rated draft, kings sportsbook APP now and use Code Ross when you sign up. Yeah I know it's fantasy show. Lots of you guys already know about draft kings. You know about DFS. Kicking some serious. What when it comes to sports book, they've got America's top rated sportsbook. APP legal legitimate. Right here in the US. For a limited time all new users can get sign up bonus up two thousand dollars. That's right draft. Book has as sign up bonus up to one thousand dollars. Do not forget, Enter Code Ross and get your sign up bonus up to a thousand dollars. Only at draft Kings sportsbook must be twenty one or older. Indiana only bonus comprised of a first deposit bonus and a I bet match up to five hundred dollars. Deposit Bonus requires twenty five times. playthrough restrictions apply see draft. Kings dot com slash sportsbook for details gambling problem, call one, eight, hundred gambler, or Indiana one, eight, hundred nine with it speaking of with it. Get with it. That is Greg Cosell. You gotTA. Check him out on tomorrow's Ross. Tucker football podcast. Also works for fancy points I mean who doesn't work for fancy points at this point. Wow, they got a lot of dudes over there. They got a pretty star-studded class. You guys already know those of you listen to the Ross Tucker football podcast. HOW MUCH WE LOVE G! See the original Greg cosell tomorrow on the Ross Tucker Football podcast. Thanks again to Graham and Joe you can also listen to yesterday's RTF if you'd like as well and hopefully, you're already following us on social I'm at Ross Tucker NFL. All of the shows can be found at Ross Tucker pod. Other than that totally stuff. That was a feast Don. Thanks for listening to the fantasy feast podcast make sure to also subscribe to their Ross Tucker Football podcast. 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Post Draft Line Changes

Even Money

28:24 min | 7 months ago

Post Draft Line Changes

"If you'd like to make your NFL Games a little more interesting. You've come to the right place. It's the even money podcast with Russ Tucker and Steve Physic-. Yeah Vegas Baby Vegas. It is even money podcasts. And it is presented by Beto Online Dot AG because there. You're online sportsbook experts. Just use the Promo Code. Podcast one to receive a fifty percent. Sign Up Bonus. Today he is the star of the show. His name is Steve as he is a math wiz he knows all of the odds for any of these bets so he knows what is a good idea. What is in a good idea? What is it good? Bet What isn't it? That doesn't mean he's always right. It just means he knows the math behind at physics. Sports is the only place you can find him on twitter. And you should. I'm at Ross. Tucker. Nfl on twitter and instagram. Facebook IS FACEBOOK DOT COM SLASH. Ross Tucker. Nfl really appreciate the likes. The follows on all of those guys are already following me on a bunch. Those different platforms. I think you know by now. Journeyman offensive lineman much to my surprise. My Dad's five nine. A buck seventy did not think I would be six five. Three thirty at some point playing seven years in the. Nfl Bunch of podcasts Andrew. Brandt was awesome on today's Ross Tucker. Football podcast Matt Waldman break down. Some of the surprise picks was equally good on Mondays. College draft podcasts. I will tell you this before. We get into our Prophet Steve and talk about does as well as some of our beds looking forward. Now that the drafts behind US I do have a couple of awesome options for Mother's Day whether it's a story for your mom or wife or whoever from my front page story DOT COM which. I'm a huge fan of or you. Go the more traditional route and you get flowers from one eight hundred flowers dot com using code football either way two of the best mother's Day gift ideas ever especially during social distancing. All Right Steve. I just gotTa start with your reaction to the NFL draft from a betting perspective including similar ones. That really stood out and whether or not it changes how you feel about their team and probably their season win total and I GUESS WE HAVE TO START STEVE. With the Miami Dolphins and the La chargers because there was some speculation about whether or not they would end up taking a quarterback or not. They both did the dolphins take to the chargers. Take just in Herbert. What are your thoughts on those selections and what it does for those teams win totals. Well I think it was pretty much given that both. We're GONNA take a quarterback. The question was where they're gonNA have to trade up and give up at Draft assets in order to do so the fact that they didn't have to do that a big positive for both Miami and for the chargers and especially Miami being able to fleece well I think they flee screen Bay and get an additional pick in the fourth round talk about draft capital for Miami. You could make the case that this has been one of the best off. Seasons teams has in a long time with Bryant. Floor is being able to attract all these free agents away from New England and other places and now having so much so many picks in the first round. It's not that I think two is going to help the team this year. I don't even think to is going to play but I think that all the momentum is really good for Miami long-term and certainly short term with the seasonal win of six. I think you have to go over for so I also know that. You typically don't like rookie quarterbacks and you have to think I think the two is GonNa play its some point and I'm wondering if that impacts it or you just think whether it's fits or two or some Combo of fits into that. They're going over six wins. Yeah it's a great point that I would much rather have fits all year long than the put to weigh in but because of health issues and the like I think the two of May well not play nearly as much as we think. I think this may well be a mentor. Year for him but If you told me that Fitzpatrick was gonNA play all the Games. That would be one of my biggest bets. Miami OVER SIX WINS. Yes interesting to we can get into a little. I you know. I wish I knew whether or not to a tongue via low was going to play because I actually I know these. Are you call needle in the Haystack? Bet Steven you're not in new him but in terms of the rookies. And if you wanted to bet a rookie of the year I think to a I saw him somewhere. Plus eight fifty is a pretty good offensive rookie of the year candidate because the issue is considered to be with his performance. It's his health so if you know but I mean look I just saw him in April doing a workout where he looked pretty good to me right. Running around the Dolphin said that was a big part of their decision. Now you have all may all of June all of July. I tend to think that he's going to be ready. I tend to think that he's not ready to go this year. I don't know if the Helms start the opener but I think he's GonNa play and I think plus eight fifty. I don't know how many guys really have a chance to win offense rookie of the year. Certainly Joe boroughs the odds on favorite. I think Jonathan Taylor who the colts took pretty high. Maybe Clyde Edward to lehrer some these running backs on good teams have a chance. But I kinda I kinda like Steve. To a plus eight fifty. Is that crazy? If someone were so inclined to bet on such a thing I think it's crazy The reason being I think that was like a three to one underdog to even be the starting quarterback at the start of the season. And I think the rookie running backs have such an advantage over the rookie. Quarterbacks that aren't slated to start week one so that I could easily see like you mentioned Johnson Taylor or the lsu running back for Kansas City. Rack up twelve hundred yards. And it's going to be hard to deny a rookie of the year for a running back. That's going to be top five in the league and yardage versus a quarterback that is going to be a below average in terms of metrics versus the other quarterbacks. All right let's move onto the chargers now. I already felt this way Steve and them taking Justin Herbert which I anticipated only served to reinforce it but I love the chargers under their total right now is at seven and a half. It's plus one. Oh five on the under seven and a half over seven and a half some minus one twenty five again. I think most of our listeners know this right but for the Plus One oh five that means you lay one hundred dollars. If you're right you get one hundred and five the minus one twenty five is you have to lay one twenty five to win one hundred if they go over. I think they're going to play her first. And I I like tyrod Taylor but the last time we saw him Steve for the browns. He was not good. They still don't have left tackle there in La in a new stadium. I think they're going to play a guy like just in. Herbert and I don't think he's good and I certainly don't. He's going to be good as a rookie and I know. They've added some nice pieces to the team. But the raiders are better. The broncos are better and now you've got a situation where we know what the chiefs are. I really like this is one of my favorite beds is the under seven and a half for the chargers again by the way bet online dot. Ag there you're online sportsbook experts. You use the Promo Code podcast. One you get one hundred percent welcome bonus. That's what I'm looking at right now. That's where these odds are right now as we're recording this eleven thirty seven. Am Eastern time. I like the chargers under seven wins plus one. Oh Five I can't do it. Ross here's why Cova that's absolutely creating havoc with all the teams. I'M GONNA make the case that the one team that Kobe benefits the very most and it's not close. It's the chargers. And here's why I think there's a real good chance we're going to see games without any fans and who has the fewest fans throughout the country? The Los Angeles chargers who has no home field advantage in terms of crowd noise? The Los Angeles chargers so by play the Games get played in front of empty stadiums. The team that benefits the very most trimodal. This is a charger team. That's got stockpiled and talent but always has to play with that enormous disadvantage and that may not be prevalent this year. Interesting okay interesting. I had not. I had not thought of that. I'm still not buying. What about the QUARTERBACK Position Steve? Well I don't think that Philip rivers was a good quarterback last year. I was shocked that Indy went all in for twenty five million with Philip rivers this year and so. I think it's a great point that the back end could be a disaster when Herbert Takes over for a tyrod Taylor so I I think that the second half of the year fating. The chargers selectively make a whole lot of sense But I think the chargers are team that just always underperforms like. I mentioned because of not having that home field advantage and because of that I hate to go against it when I think that this is an under the radar factor that nobody else has factoring in continuing with the draft and what we saw and things that may or may not be actionable. You know I'll have some other ones for you but let's just get into it your thoughts on the Green Bay packers trading up to take Jordan love and what that means in your mind with the packers win. Total Steve currently on online. It's nine and a half. Plus one twenty five to the over minus one forty five to the under so the juice is too the under nine and a half at bet online right now so put me down for best. Bet under the nine and a half. I think that this is going to really destroy team chemistry. It's one thing to take love. It's another thing to trade away your fourth round. Pick to move up for slots to grab him. What kind of message is that? Sending to Aaron Rodgers. It's a message saying. Hey we don't think that you're going to be a good quarterback for very much longer and we've got to look towards our future and then in the second round taking. Aj Dylan a bruising back. That can't catch the ball out of Boston. College again. Not Giving Aaron Rodgers any help and they didn't give them a wide receiver throughout the entire draft. I think that this has to have Aaron Rodgers. Just shaking his head in terms of what the heck is Green Bay doing? And I think it's GonNa ruin the team chemistry and frankly the packers were massively overrated. Last year under nine and a half. Wow I've seen it someplace where it's nine. I like the over nine because I think they'll still find a way to win nine games. I think you push nine and a half changes things a little bit for me with the packers. I don't know if they'll get Tan. I just like it a lot more at nine than I do. And nine and a half. What about the thought Process Steve? That Aaron Rodgers has in an F. U. Year as a result of this and goes out and plays really really. Well I've certainly heard that but in order to play really really well you need to have really good players to throw the ball to so With one wide receiver and so little else to throw to and frankly Aaron Rodgers is an average quarterback his Qbr the last two years twenty and sixteen in the League. So there's nothing special about Aaron Rodgers. He's not Michael Jordan anymore. That can just come out and Willis team to win. Despite what's around him and with him being thirty six his better years are behind him so. I don't think he's good enough even when fully motivated to want to go go ahead and do that and frankly I think Aaron Rodgers may well his F you may well be you know what maybe I'm not gonNA put as much time into this. The team has clearly given up on me. It's it's going to be interesting to see how it how it unfolds. There's no question about it. One of the other teams Steve. Getting a lot of love after the draft and they did have a good trap. That just seemed like it. It unfolded perfectly for them. It is the Dallas cowboys there. Over under like the packers is nine and a half. The juice is to the over minus one twenty five. The under is plus one zero five at bed online they got. Cd LAMB in the first round. Then trayvon digs in the second Neville gallimore and the third even tyler beyond which to compete for that starting center spot in the fourth universally Bradley a Ni- in the six universally praised. Does it make a difference to you? Steve? You know I've had some big time discussions with various people. I am not a player evaluation guy and I agree with you. I when I look at a lamb one thing I do is. I assess what everyone else's evaluation was and that lamb should've gone about fourteen and a half in the draft so if you're able to take him number seventeen that's certainly looks like tremendous value to me. Certainly Dak no longer has any excuses so like Dallas going in because they went eight eight somehow last year but should've won ten games and now with those With three really good wide. Receivers with Gallup and Cooper There's no reason we shouldn't see that offense really Gel for Dallas And I could only look overnight and because of that however having said all this all these. Gm's are way smarter than me and they've got talented waiters way smarter than me. Let me back up. I'm not sure they're smarter than me. But they've got talented fighters that are way smarter than me. and focused so. There's a reason lamb fell to seventeen. I don't know the reason behind I do think you WanNa talk about Dallas. Green Bay have some advantages. I think this Kovin doing handicapping based upon this is pretty darn significant Ross and I think being in a city like Dallas and especially a flyover area like Green Bay. That's being spared the worst of the virus. There's a lot of distractions going on in New York in New Orleans Chicago. Those are cities that are hit so hard by this. I think that the day to day disruption during For All these players that live in those cities I think it's going to have a more significant impact than people expect. I wanted to get your thoughts on. That is a player. That's per prepping for play in Green Bay GonNa be. Is it going to be much easier for him than players living in New York? Ooh That's interesting. I I don't know I don't know what the rules will be. I don't know why they're going to you know how they're going to do it. I think a lot of these guys for the most part are going to just stay in their houses and or hotels or whatever they do and then go to the facility and I don't think it's going to be that but that's sort of an element of it. I thought of it. From a standpoint of teams that have continuity versus teams that don't have continuity and new coaching staff and don't have a rookie quarterback renew quarterback and the impact of that. I hadn't really thought of it like you are right now. Which is the actual city to city impact interest? And so and so because of that New Orleans I look at that team is having the double whammy Tremendous homefield events because the crowd noise. And now if there's no fans and all the players are disrupted because the viruses hit New Orleans so hard I know I want no part of putting any kind of futures bets Or Season Win. Bet On the saints very interesting. Very interesting Steve. Let's look at some of these other ones. You talked about the Miami Dolphins. What about Actually go back to the cowboys for a second thought. Steve on them taking like a number three wide receiver like CD LAMB as opposed to like a number one corner that they still need at seventeen. And it's a great question. Because when you have a wealth of riches at one position that can create such a problem for the defense that maybe it's not a bad idea to load up there Certainly lamb you. Can't you could make the case. Was the best player available in the draft. I do think in terms of Prop betting boy. I bet and Cooper under for a reception yards because there's only one football and so because of that having all those guys there is going to certainly have impact on him and Gallup in terms of how many yards. They're gonNA get so I think at first fantasy football projections and betting that way That's probably the the most significant factor bringing lamb aboard. What about your lost? Vegas Raiders. Any thoughts on them after they took rugs as the first receiver. Damon are net at nineteen. Who PEOPLE THOUGHT WAS? Maybe third round pick does it. Change your thoughts on the raiders at all. Well we pretty much trust. May I used to be you know? Obviously a draft analyst to know what he's doing and when he takes a player that everyone else says doesn't belong in the first round like our net We believe him and so we're very bullish about all the speed that the raiders are bringing on board. And here's a team frankly that Had some injuries last year still won seven games and overachieved. So there's a lot of optimism with the raiders. Having said that were city here. I gotTa tell you. Ross are stadium. We're worried I I'm worried that it's not going to be one hundred percent complete. Come Week one because You know everything that's going on around. Maybe it will be complete but you talk about disruptions moving from Oakland to vegas new practice facilities new city. I'm concerned that that could well be They get the raiders might be one of the most distracted teams in the NFL. And that's why I can't get them to go over. Got It all right. Some of the other draft related moves. I wanted to get your thoughts on your opinion of the Eagles. Change at all with them. Taking Jalen Rieger somewhat surprisingly in the first round instead of other receivers and more notably taking Jalen hurts in the second round. Yeah I didn't like the Jalen hurts selection but you know the eagles are smarter than I am and I'm sure they've got some kind of plan to use hurts And because of that. I DIDN'T WANNA make too big of an adjustment. I do know that. Rieger was considered to be a reach but Philly obviously had no wide receivers so last year so they desperately needed to pick one up and if they've done their homework on him and he's And he does work out that's going to be a desperately needed addition for Carson Wentz but the hurts pick obviously. It was puzzling. It's interesting I've read some math guys that talk about You know the need to always have a good backup quarterback and they you know they've they go into you. Think about like last year right Detroit. Backup gets hurt. I mean staffer gets her Detroit. Season's over even the jets. The three games darnold missed. They had no chance to win those games. Steve and Sam Darnold went seven and six starter last year. You know if they win a couple more of those games they win one or two games. He's out you know they got a chance and it just seemed like the Eagles WanNa make sure they're never in that situation. They've obviously one a lot of big games with backups. Over the years including playoff game super bowl nick foles et CETERA. So I think that to me is the it just seems like they are always GonNa make sure in their mind that they're covered the backup quarterback spot. Yeah but they're not going to be covered this year because jalen hurts is not going to be as good as nate. Sud fell this year but down the road. I I certainly can see. Maybe they can develop him into a good backup quarterback But like you mentioned taking a quarterback early on almost always bad for this year's performance because the The benefits of that quarterback really are down the road not in the first year. So here's the next one I wanted to ask you about. And that is the San Francisco. Forty niners now. They drought the Giovane. Ken Law to take over for deforest. Buckner they trade backup for Brandon. I- Euch but maybe the big one was Trent Williams Steve in your thoughts on them getting Trent Williams. Yeah the rich get richer you could make the case the niners have the very best roster in the NFL. They replace You know one of the starting wide receivers and the draft and bolstering the line. I gotTa tell you Ross. Basic Strategy says fade the Super Bowl Loser. Typically because there's that hangover from that loss but the niners on paper certainly look like they are going to be the team to beat in the NFC. We got a question I want to get to today Steve and next week. We're going to look a little bit at some of the rookie of the year stuff. Mvp stuff. I know. You're typically not a big fan but we can explain why but looking at this question from todd in Colorado and todd took advantage of one of our sponsors. I can't remember if it was bet online using the Promo Code. Podcast one or maybe just one eight hundred flowers dot com using the code football but he said and it's relevant today. He said by the way. Thanks for all the great content the pod would be amateur. Syndicate was Awesome. Great to see the average guy win some today's question when looking at team win. Totals how do you equate? Say and over eight and a half minus one sixty win total verses a nine win minus one ten. What juice on the eight and a half creates equal value? Well the easy questions. Each half game is worth approximately fifty cents so in this example. If you're over under over nine lay dollar ten Under nine million dollars ten and your contrasting that with an eight and a half minus one sixty on the over mathematically those would be two equivalent bets because I'm willing to essentially By a half game you can think of it. That way down From over instead by over nine dollars ten over eight and a half miles one sixty equal bet so in when you're trying to assess you like a team over if you can get an extra half game and pay less than fifty cents then you should go ahead and do so God. You know what Steve. I didn't know that. How do you know that like? Where's that come from It's just the probability distributions over the years how often teams land within the number. It's it's similar to like baseball. Totals THAT MOST GUYS. When they're betting baseball totals and they have to choose between playing like an over eight and a half or so. It's nine no that that that being on or off the nine is worth about twenty cents and they just have either they have the charter. They have it memorized. Done so awesome. So I've got a pretty good guest lined out next week and I WANNA get into some of the offensive rookie of the year defensive rookie of the year. And I want you to even explain to the guest next week. Why you never bet those. I think that'll be interesting. And we'll get to more of your email questions so keep him coming. Ross at Ross Tucker Dot Com please because we very much enjoy them. That'll do it Steve. For today's podcast really looking forward to over the coming weeks diving into different strategies different philosophies and getting some cool and unique guests on I already have a great guest idea for this show for a week from now. You are going to absolutely love him. I promise again you guys know the deal with Ben Online mentioned it while we're doing the prophets recap you also the deal. With Mother's Day my front page story DOT COM or use the code football at one eight hundred flowers dot com your apple podcast. Rankings and comments always appreciated. Always always always as is when you take advantage of the Amazon banner ad on our homepage other than that. Everybody who guys win some money. Thanks for listening to the even money. Podcast make sure to all subscribe to the Ross. Tucker football podcast. The fantasy feast business of sports in the college. Draft all available at Apple podcasts. Ross Tucker DOT COM or wherever PODCASTS can be found.

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The Kist & Solak Show #73: Senior Bowl Day 1-2 Recap

Bleeding Green Nation

23:41 min | 2 years ago

The Kist & Solak Show #73: Senior Bowl Day 1-2 Recap

"Michael kissed Benjamin, so lack it's the kissed and Solex show presented by SP and leading green nation. You are flying high on the kissed and so lack show this episode seventy three brought to you by the fine folks at SP nation and leading green nation. Venice furiously looking up the number seven as Emma suck it. So it's the Isaac say Mahler show. I'm Michael kissed. Follow me on Twitter at Michael kissed NFL as always joined by the best dog on co host in the game, Mr. eight year streak without a bad day. He's actually sitting right by me. We get to do this with each other here mobile Alabama for this senior bowl. Ben. How're you doing brother? I don't have to look it up when it's guy who's actually on the roster only looking it up when there's like no dude is wearing sixty six for the eagles currently, but do not doing very well man mobile such a fun week. The director of the senior boy Jim now UA says for one week the entire NFL just like descends on the small town in Alabama. And that's really what's happening like everybody's here. So many people get to talk to so much, you know, different opinions on different stuff. We just. Jon gruden. We talked to them at the clue mattress. You know what? I mean. This is like insane stuff that yet today, which is a ton of fun. So I'm happy to be happy to be with you. And having to talk seen -able. I got to slander Tom cable as he was standing right by us. And I hope that really. Yeah. I said are no it was it was a refocus on that said very loudly that he thinks that the offense of Lyman or going to see a steady decline throughout the week because they're working with Tom cable. And I completely agree with that. I don't know if you heard it or not. But I thought it was a funny line. But look this is going to be a bit of a quicker show. We're going to try to get you caught up on what's happening on day. One. Obviously some weather issues caused day to be an indoor facility practice where media did not have access. We still have some notes about that. But one thing that I want to get right on the top as draft network did a mock draft live mock draft video and everything on you can follow that at draft network LLC one of the picks, and I say picks because Daniel Jones threw him one was to a the guy that you was at you that mocked him. Joe mocked him by joke layered with me. I because I was watch. The the twenty five I was like, hey any help. Maybe. No, okay. Cool. This year Adderley was the slash is a safety add a Delaware. And the immediate response was Shabana trenches, which certainly could have been in the trenches. But the biggest issue Philadelphia's defense this year was not was not pass rushing trench play. It wasn't even corner plan my opinion, it was the lack of depth that safety really limited. The defense wants Rodney McLeod went down Seattle. You can play for safety. It's huge. The eagles. Do not have a depth safety Corey Graham trae Sullivan who can play that position. So they do need to fill that depth will. But also mcleod's gonna be coming back for major surgery and has a very cuddle contract next year, you can even pull it off this year, if you really had to generate some space, it wouldn't be great, but you could do it. And so they're looking at a point where MacLeod seems like he's lost a step back from injury. They're going to need a starter at the position by next season. And they already need a depth piece this season. So I think safety is potentially early pack again trenches would be fine Adderley compla- free safety as corner experience as well. Fantast? Mastic athlete came in a little bit light. But that's ok university of Delaware product. He didn't have great weight room stuff. You know, what I mean like, obviously, a weight rooms a weight room pounds of pounds. But you didn't go through a big power five sort of weight program. So you think that you can add more mass onto that frames? A little bit spindly at least I can get a mere two hundred pounds a little bit over. And so this year to me way, and he didn't win, but practice wise, he's been fine. Getting coverage rabs holding his own against ends thought receivers he's going to be playing deep if he goes to Philadelphia. He's around one slash twenty five is a good spot for my like him in that range. So one guy that I like, and I don't know if the eagles met with him, but we're gonna get into those guys in a second. But one guy that I wanna bring up, and I was speaking with friend of the show. Matt Waldman before the practice. We've had on the show a couple of times. He's great my Waldman's RSP. Awesome works for football as well. But he had put out there on Twitter before that. There was a guy that he had comped to Thurman Thomas. But he didn't say who it was guess. Yeah. I guess was Bruce Anderson. It was Bruce Andrews easy money. That's. Easy money as soon as he put that tweet out. I watched Bruce Anderson the running back from North Dakota state that night. And I said this has got to be the guy that he has talking about an big thing for Bruce Anderson. This week was the receiving jokes because he got a lot of ball production as receiver in college. But that does not mean that he can't do it. Because there are definite flashes of him being able to do it. He's done very well in the individual drills here showing that office got natural hands his explosive out of his burst. He looks comfortable running routes, you know, that he can do it. So it's a situation. Where was he asked to do it? Can he do it? He just wasn't asked to do it. He definitely can do it. So I think he raises his stock has a track background. He has a kick return background as a freshman. He had sixteen kick returns five hundred eighty five yards in two touchdowns as averages over thirty six yards. It would have led the FCS that year. If you qualified I think two or four more kickoff returns, whatever their limit was. So Bruce Anderson is a guy that I love for the eagles could sneak his way into data to somewhere who did the eagles meet with tell me was pleased on me was Bruce. Anyway, I don't know. That was a good chance. They did. And the reality is we get to see ten to fifteen percent of the people. They meet with the scouts end player in the personnel. Executives are just in the same conference with the players constantly grabbing guys sitting down with them. Most of it is clerical work. It's not a huge signal. That's the reality. They're asking guys about their history their background when they were starting their injury stuff and there taking notes checking boxes on forms. So they have this data when the do final valuations. It's I saw I saw eagle scouts talking to David sills the Watterson wrote a West Virginia visit guy who talking with with scouts previously in the season. The eagles have been high on sales for while. They're getting to know him here. The senior bowl Jerry green is like outside linebacker DeAnne hybrid never kinda fit Mississippi State of talking to him. And the one thing is interesting is Titus Howard off attack. Lot of Alabama state is good mover came in with good size. These small school offense tackles becoming developmental pieces has really become a thing for the NFL over the last few years as office of tax. Off its Lampley in general, I think has decreased the power five level. Then you start just kinda reaching for these athlete type body beautiful types. And you see if you can build them up into something. So Philadelphia looking offense tackles make sense, I think Titus Howard is probably earlier than they got prior. And my Lada he'd be a more significant investment in the position. And actually haven't anonymous scout quote about Titus our own sourcing and the quote is quote, fixes in Hans everything else is good. So he's got work to do in that area. Obviously. Fortunately, the hands are not important when it comes to blocking never even used them once or twice a game. There's no problem. But you're right. They they are looking at a lot of those types of guys from the smaller schools that are just body beautiful because one of the call ups from this Ryan week was only Yudo only Yudo only Yudo he's from Ilan shrugging, call up. He's got thirty six inch arm. So what are the way in like three hundred and just massive? That's the actual wait a healthy young man healthy. Oh, man. What other tackles? Did you see that? You think that the eagles might have their eye on? A lot of people like hundred Dillard Dalton reisner is here. There's some other guys I think Chuma from USC your your buddy John Leger was saying that he was having a good week. Well, ledger took that from me. So you can watch until now Chuo is a guy who watches twenty seventeen had a USC coming into the season. Alright. So the do can move a little bags at Gray's, really nimbly quick feet. What are we looking at in twenty eighteen and I thought it was inconsistent twenty eighty never steps forward that were still mistakes. He's got a really long frame that doesn't sit well against a power. Russia doesn't have great angry doesn't have mass in the lower half. And he came in over three hundred pounds and speaking with the people that he was training with coming into the coming into the offseason that three hundred pound benchmark was huge rooms he was not playing over three hundred pounds. Right. And in the Pac twelve you can really get away with that. Because they don't pass rush. A lot of power there. A lot of the passengers on these smaller outside linebacker types. And so it made sense it was playing, but he's able to get over three hundred which is big for him. I a long frame usually think you can add some more mass to, but you wonder where that's gonna do agility. Now that said here this. Week. You've seen him taking on more traditional rushers and framing them really nicely in locating his hands really nicely. That's been what surprised me because you didn't really see that as much on the Pac twelve tape. Now. He's dealing with a lot more five to gap ingwer slow rushing him in. So it's different sort of approaches on offense of tackle. I think he's a dappling really well two different styles of Russia's better than I would have meant -ticipant it. So Adoga guy that I've like been on. But as more of a project type over the past few months with this senior performance he's gonna I think play himself into a stronger consideration for teams now checking boxes on him. Like checking boxes on paper was a box on film. You realize like he's framing Russia's and looking hands nicely little nasty to he's willing to put some guys in the Bill in the hit him. The only other tackle that. I would say is interested me so far from a potential starting perspectives. Dennis daily at a South Carolina. And he's the guy who went up against a slew of rushers in the SEC. Obviously, you're gonna have your Josh Allens. They're gonna have the Clemson rushers. This is a guy who up and down success in terms of. Against these top your talents, but you see frame really nicely who can exchange power in the trenches. There's been one tack left-outs able to deal with Montas sweat for the south team this practices. It's been devastated. He's the only one is able to hold up. Baseball, truly. It is awful. I'm Phillies writer Justin clue. Join me every week along with John Stolnis. Liz Rozier, and Dr Trevor Strunk as we discuss all the ways the Phillies of hurt us on our podcast hidden season as well as historical anecdotes and raw emotional ramblings on our other shows continued success and the dirty inning. Subscribe to the good fight and you'll get conversations with insiders analysis of breaking news and stats stats stats together. We'll survive whatever baseball can throw at us one guy that I wanna get your opinion on because they're going to be some polarizing opinions on them and people are going to miss label him in whatnot. But it's Andy Isabella the wide receiver out of UMass. I wrote about him for bleeding green dot com. As part of my primer piece to get us ready as the eagles may target because they have been looking at deep threats Isabel. La beat Denzil ward in a track meet was one hundred and two hundred meter race. And he has said that he can run as fast as like four to six something like that. He's been time that a one five one ten yard split to this. Dude has Bernard now he's tiny. He's a tiny tiny dude with tiny tiny arms, and he can't hold a Walker with this tiny tiny hands. But you see the explosion that. He has got long speed the short areas speed is something to see. There was a rep were I remember just gasping as he came out of his brakes quick slant. As soon as he got out of that thing he separated so quickly. It was incredible. So he's extremely quick in the short intermediate areas really crappy at the at the break point us really productive to so small school guy. But also went up against Georgia and put up like massive numbers. It was like twelve catches one hundred sixty something yards or two hundred twelve years something like that touched a lot of garbage time work there night game. I'll just put it like that. But he still did show that he was a deep threat in that game as well. The problem with Isabelle. Ella? And specifically one of the reps that I'm talking about here at that slant where he separated so easily and so quickly. He drops the ball. And I don't know if he's a natural hands catcher, not what did you see from Isabela that you like maybe didn't like I agree with the sense that he is inconsistent with his hands. And then there's also there's been a discourse about how long it takes him to get into his route breaks because he tries to does a lot did do a lot which I don't hate too much. You know, what I mean like he's gonna run option releases? He's gonna run stuff that has multi breaks to that's gonna play to a strength. So I don't hate it on. And also the senior trying to showcase what you've got. And so I don't know. I think you stunt a little bit. Yeah. What I'll tell you. It was like, you know, I don't think if a coach told him. Hey, you take three steps and snap into the break. He'd be like, no, man. I need to do this at the top. You know, he's gonna it's gonna be okay. He's going to conform to they need on that. Can you can coach, you know, nonsense in a route break out of a guy? You can't teach him how to have great wiggle on like a return route Aarau or stuff that has multiple tough angles to it and one. Guy that I remember that people said that about economic read with them, especially the senior bowl was Cooper cop. Did a lot of stuff extra at the senior bowl at the top of his route has not been an issue for him at the next level yesterday. You have now that being said the better version of anti Isabel. Here's penny Hort out of Georgia's state who is like so heart was a guy who like I saw a little bit about a door to stay when he before he came to the senior bowl, and you're like, all right? This dude, great move or super small returner. That's fine. And then he gets the senior will invite though last day man, they were talking like he was totally three days before the event. Liyel your comment. Emmanuel hall dropped you're gonna be here heart is so loose. You just talking about an athlete who there's no angle. He can't get through. There's no way his hips camp point, he's working through contact. He's dealing with with physicality is able to keep his feet moving. He's just he's got such nice band. He's got such nice agility. It's just you look at him. And there's so many possibilities with the ball in his hands with him working into space to get the full. Ball to me. What is it? Bella does best on film is the quickness to separate, and I think hearts got him there. What Israel will do? Best testing wise is long speed. And I think Isabel has got heart bear into. It's not really like a one to one hearts better Berge. But to me if you're looking for like that quick undersized slot than to me penny Hort right now outplaying Isabela. And I went back wash them heart tape last night. I haven't gone even his ability. Or it's tape holds up know, this is not just, you know, a practice warrior. He was able to do this a three time sun belt conference player too. I was a freshman team. And he was thirteen this year when they're basically on option quarterback. You know what I mean? He's a fantastic young players those the slack is that interest may I don't I'm interested to hear what you thought about emptier defensive lineman into spot that is super strong here. This is probably the strongest position group, we've got here mobile, and obviously the little could address next Fletcher Cox, some big names would you like to do see me like looking at the names to to to see who I wanted to talk about. I was gonna we're so close physically, right? Now the connection is palpable. One guy that I really liked that. I saw enshrine week to Dale and MAC from Texas am this guy just has this natural low center of gravity. He's built so thickly in his butt and size and just by his his height the ways built he gets under dudes. And when he gets underdo he can at least move them. He might not blow pass them. But he's got a good first step to be able to get into the frame of the opposing center guard wherever you wanna put them, but he would be a guy that would just suck up space and attention away from Pletcher costs. I think it's like three twenty but he was moving dudes back, and he was also showed off a good club move. He shows some different mutism pass reduce a little bit to him. He's not going to be a dynamic pass at the next level. He did have five and a half sacks last year. And I thought his tape from seventeen to eighteen did show some improvement in that area. I think he's better than his team mate. That's here. Kiki Kingsley, and I can get your opinion on that. But Dale and MAC on the interior was one guy that I really like Kingsley KiKi. You messed up. Again, you always mess. Kingsley. Kiki's KiKi Kingsley. Daily x five star who underperformed in college. And this order that came out in like a bell, Jack while ago, Bill loves to attack experts recruits. Yeah, everybody does this. The five star recruits are usually like there's a reason why they're five stars. But the point made in the article in the point of all with five stars is all the coach has to do is convince himself that he'll be better developing that five college coaches were he's gonna wanna get me on. I mean and yet max obviously illustrating out of that potential. A lot of that power that made him such a highly touted recruit now frame wise, do do can lose some weight. I think you can get slimmer thing right now. He's the size where he trying to hold up against SEC rushers on the SEC offense alignment on the interior. He's trying to hold way trying to to gap. You can make him a little small he can still play one took identify level. I think he has bad way that he can lose which is something that will increases explosiveness, which is something he needs in his game. And I still think is explosive enough. So he does if he does drop that weight than. Yeah. You it's going to be some. Very nice that I'm starting to look at and be attracted by what about the guys because you've mentioned mount Montas sweat already. What are the guys along the edge? Have you? I see on the first day. I got to see the south practice. They moved it to the other side. And I was so locked on Adderley because a love him so much that I missed some of the reps. And the film room was a crap show today because everybody was often everybody was packed in that dog on echoes film room. So I wasn't able to get some of those reps from the north team in the first day. What did you see from either the north team or from the south team? Just did you see someone that you liked along the edge? Right. So obviously Montesquieu as the guy that people love to talk about here. And and swears a perfect example to me of a player. That's getting counted. Twice in terms of coming into the coming into mobile. We said, okay, Montas what wins with lengthy power. He's a good hand placement. He's a big dude strong duties, the ideal frame, and then he came here. He was a big strong had the ideal frame length power and ham plays. Nobody's losing their minds is supposed to do right point. You don't count things twice when it comes to players. You you have their film. You have the expectation for them Montas wet killed away in. But when you watch them on film, you expected him to kill the way. So you can't boost him board for doing something that when you rank them on your board. You expected him to do, you know, what I mean, unless you're like, you know, just trying to say completely agnostic of that which doesn't make any sense to me than go ahead for the only other defensive linemen. That's rushing off the edge. That is really interested me those far has been Jonathan Ledbetter. Who's the guy wasn't interior player for Georgia? He slimmed down around two seventy now, I don't know exactly how he fits. He's probably more of a guy you want playing at three five three four front on from Philadelphia never does on. So I don't know if he's good for the eagles. But he's wants Russia's around the edge. Only other guy that I can think of has been particularly strong north team wise going through that film. Zack Allen has good. Russia's Anthony Nelson. Good Russia's again. These are. Bayer guys aren't going to be typically lighting up the wide nine. So I don't see much there for Philadelphia. I'm sure they would love to see like Shane's minis from Old Dominion who's like their size their speed. Become a dude. But he's just not having a week. He's not he he is. He's a little bit out of his depth. Last question for you that I wanna get your opinion on this guy. I was watching this film the other day against Daniel Jones who has been pretty pretty bad this week, and you kind of expect that so I'm not gonna check that box twice. Just gonna call him. Not a first round quarterback. But one Thornhill the safety Ed Virginia, I really liked his tape. Yup. What did you think of Thornhill is week so far? I thought it I thought he's been solid Thornhill thing. Like, a you talk about Thornhill Thornhill has been as bad as every other safety in every other corner is here on a mean like is this the guy who like when you're in a defense back position playing one on one in terms of isolated in space. You have no safety. You've no underneath coverage. Nothing like that. You're gonna lose reps out of loss wraps money on a warrior, who's the potential first round corner has lost wraps. It happens. So thought has lost some reps overall say that again, a warrior or warrior or warrior, Amani aurea Amar? Jio got a mom. Gonna lose some reps. Thornhill been a guy who clearly I think is a step quicker, especially for his length. Then a lot of the other players using here. There's a lot of small school defensive backs swore around, and you can see that his length of my opinion stands out a little bit. Like, you put them up against Darnell savage, even a rock Yasin who came in under size, a big problem for him for clearly has a different physical profile there. Another star player another guy who in Virginia was never like super productive. Obviously Cavaliers kind of been stuck in neutral for the past two years. So I've lied like Thornhill film a lot. He hasn't done anything for me. It's like super stood out this week. Really? No defensive back is done anything. I've been like yet by what's not set up for them to success. Yeah. So it to me you're looking at a you're relying on the phone for this guy. He was getting spoken to the Zona cardinals was mother scouts about here. Reckless driving incident on the beginning of last year that got squared away and use potentially gonna be suspended wherever that I didn't know about teams in the homework on him for sure and phone os are the cars our team needs to safe to draft in early round to you know, we'll. See what happens? Okay. I want your opinion on one last guy ago, which I'm assuming you haven't seen film towel hangs that linebacker under New Mexico state Hanks's, a guy that I circled because when I was watching Bruce Anderson. Oh, yeah. Did you see him lay out Bruce Anderson when he was trying to align day one day want? Yeah. If you if you watch the draft our Kelsey life shop today one you would have heard that our offense winner of for the week of the day was present in our defense. A winner was terror links. They met in the whole I stuck on him after that. And really zoned in got in on his reps. I have not seen him film. But he is a guy that I put like three circles around because he looked really good coverage, really smooth. And I like what he brings to the table as a coverage linebacker in in that regard. So I'm hoping that the film matches will see if it's just like a really good practice or something that holds up when you go in there some of that and film, there's some process and concerns for sure like it was pretty simple, Phil. But man on Intel hangs walk down the stage. You jacked you like. Actually, I circled him. Then I circle them twice even realize this and listen, so there's a there's a buzz phrase that scouts use. When guys Jack Burgos, his skin is tight in the point. Where like like he so jackets straining his epidermis terrible. Hanks you caught yourself on his ads, dude. I have never linked that was he was so fretted there's built and then there's threaded like he was to forty and he looked lean. He was ridiculously Bill. Oh my goodness. A healthy healthy young, man. You have the official measurements. I do. I'll show you the the the Tera Hanks came in at six to flat to thirty four with thirty three and five eighth inch arms. His the only one that I had an asterisk next to. So it was like on the way in well. Yeah. Because when you look like the predator on stage animal, anyway, if you're like to me, he's a Sam type and Philadelphia can use picks. John. I think you can have hangs Brian plane actually gonna make sense interns, Philadelphia's linebackers so a lot of moving parts a lot of things that we're gonna be talking through throughout the week. We've got practice number three coming up today after this is released will be there will be breaking it all down for you here bleeding green nation. Ben. Would you say goodbye to the gentle listeners? Thank you as for the kitchen. So like showdown bijon radio. We had a good time during the podcast the last year. We were doing podcasts together and Mike lost voice partied so hard that. I was doing it with other people in pretending they were Mike. And so this year is nice that might retain his voice podcast. All you have another live from mobile. Thank you so much for listening. As always we're gonna be back again, I'm assuming after all the prices are done. And we actually, you know, have a practice to talk about ought to give you some more notes on what players actually look like on the field on Wabe to talk about some of the results of the game as well as we continue to transition into the off season. We'll talk about more draft prospects eagles target, including underclassmen gets you prepare for the combine what matters there and talk some free agents talk some contracts as well up. Please. Go ahead. Leave a rating reviewing subscription if you enjoyed the show, which usually do which is super cool. So go ahead. Please leave that rain reviewing subscription other Benjamin. So like on Twitter at Benjamin. So like, that's S T. We're gonna catch you guys later this week. We all got real all we need. Flying.

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Episode 11: Latest Adjustments to Player Outlooks

Establish The Run

39:37 min | 1 year ago

Episode 11: Latest Adjustments to Player Outlooks

"<music> i has low and welcome to episode episode. Eleven of the official established the run dot com podcast. My name is adam levitin one of the co founders here at established running as usual jules. I'm joined by my partner in this endeavor fellow co founder of the man who moves a._d._p.'s guzzler of water. It is of course evan silva having what's up buddy. What's up man week. One is quickly approaching. We're already starting to see some teams. Make some meaningful cuts. We are now l. past the third week of preseason which historically has been the most telling but more and more teams are not playing their starters orders but we still had many many significant takeaways from the weekend and i'm excited to jump into odyssey. We lost one of the best players in the n._f._l. All in that had massive reverberations throughout <hes> throughout the n._f._l. In real life and certainly throughout <hes> our top one fifty in our tears and everything else man i mean mean poor went out for a fantastic football player and <hes> i hope that he <hes> enjoys the rest of his life comfortably yeah. We're we're gonna talk about injury. Luck here in a second but yeah what we're going to do on this podcast. We're going to go through all the news and notes that most important things that we saw during week three preseason including andrew lock including the lamar miller injury bunch of injuries bunch of usage stuff unfortunately a bunch of injuries. I should say get you guys up to speed but first reminder that during the season we will be doing two shows per week friday night and sunday morning they will be part of our in season package so had established run dot com and check that out before prices his go up okay evan as you mentioned fewer and fewer coaches risking their starters even in week three <hes> but some did some paid the price and some in the case of andrew lock walk in the colts <hes> whilst their quarterback <hes> first of all <hes>. I just wanted to say like there's so much hate out there for angela anderson the timing <hes> is not ideal for colts fans. The timing is not ideal for people who already drafted their fantasy football team. People were playing best balls and had any luck and marlon early mac and c._y._o. And everything like that but just as a human just because he was making a lot of money doesn't meaning doesn't wanna live a happy life and a healthy life. He's had so many injuries <hes> and just recently people think they're offensive. Line's always been really good just recently they invested in their offensive line and had a really good offensive line so just from a human perspective. I always like to see people bull <hes> think about the long-term more than the short term and and if this was what's angela heart then i'm happy for him. What was your first reaction. <hes> taking about andrew a lot i mean certainly shaq was out at dinner with my daughter at the time and i was like everybody else. I saw it. Come across adam schefter twitter feed. I i was a fake account. You know check it like four or five times and then i hustle back home <hes> because first of all i had a an f. f._c._c. main main event right draft a big buy in on that but i also wanted to get back and i was i stayed up till like three in the morning after that draft making changes throughout our draft kit <hes> but yeah i mean look you know you call you. Use the term smell the roses and this guy has suffered. I mean he took <hes> more hits in his first three n._f._l. Seasons than any quarterback by account of sixty five he i mean he risked his life and that's not exaggeration on the football field for the colts he suffered a lacerated kidney and internal injuries on the football field he played through a torn labrum in his throwing shoulder and you know he just got tired of rehabbing every single off season and i i don't blame him. You know he's a really smart mark guy. He's a really good person and i just hope that he you know can can overcome all these injuries and live live a great life and i think he will i think he he can do great things outside of football because he's got. He's got like these. He's just like he's a brilliant dude. He really <music> love angela best best of luck to him. No pun intended all right. Let's talk about the fantasy impact though here evan. That's what we're here for. <hes> for those guys don't remember jacoby. Kobe did start fifteen games in the two thousand seventeen season was not a pretty seventeen games. Only average fourteen point six draftkings points per game in those fifteen for context. That's like sam darnold or matthew stafford or what ryan tannehill average last year but evan. I think there's a bit of optimism on joey. Are we percents because the surrounding parts versus at twenty seven team on the colds are way way way better <hes> new coach. He has a a bit of rushing equity are ran for two hundred sixty four touchdowns in that twenty seventeen season i in terms of backups evan in terms with the colts outlook. How bad do you think it is now that jacoby perset perset is their starter. I just general impact on the colts is massive their win total at sports books dropped from nine and a half to six and a half or even six six which is like raiders territory <unk> that two thousand seventeen team that was quarterback by jacoby percent when andrew lock was out with a shoulder injury scored sixteen point four points points per game which was thirty in the n._f._l. The two thousand sixteen in two thousand eighteen colt with luck at quarterback scored twenty five point seven and twenty seven point one points per game so let's just take the lower number from those two luck seasons and we're talking about a nine point three points per game swing and that is massive downgrading reading from andrew luck to jacoby percent. The good news is the colts have a better coaching staff now. They have a way better roster but i think that there's at least a touchdown per game difference between this offense with andrew luck and this offense with jacoby percent at least a touchdown per game difference. I generally speaking on jacoby percent. What what what do you think of him and his talent <hes> generally because it is <hes> he was a a patriots backup. We've seen fifteen games with them like we do have a decent decent amount of tape on jacoby preset yeah and for some context on that two thousand seventeen season. It's important to remember that the colts traded for jacoby percent on september third word of that year almost no time to learn the offense this year. Jacoby percent has been the first team quarterback for all of august. <hes> the offensive line again is way better. They bring back all five starters. Jacoby dozen seventeen finishes the quarterback twenty two fantasy. He took the most sacks in the league. He averaged six six point six yards per pass attempt. He's a decent athlete with a pretty good arm but he's also a slow processor in the pocket. He has a tendency to hold onto the ball way too long so i- slaughtered him quarterback twenty nine behind marcus mariota joe flacco ahead of manning and dwayne haskins and i put chad kelly at quarterback forty and i know that we think of chad kelly is a preseason only but i think he's a legit talent you talk to like matt waldman who you had on the if i said recently <hes> matt waldman had him as the number two quarterback in that draft in terms of just sheer talent behind only patrick mahomes ahead of the shawn on watching and mitchell trubisky <hes> and i wouldn't be surprised at all if we see chad kelly make starts this year does have to serve a two game suspension to begin the in the season. He's got like off the old demons but he's a true town. If you can just kind of get everything together focus on football jack kelly i think will play this year <hes> but jacoby percents <unk> back into quarterback league option and it doesn't help the colts i you games are on the road against the chargers and the titans to pretty good defense starters obviously even without derwin james. I think titans are above average so i really wouldn't want jacoby. Percent is more than a a quarterback three and famously absolutely loved chad kelly aka swag kelly <hes> you know as evan mentioned has had some off field issues but anytime this guy has had a chance to play in the preseason sinise balled out and <hes> yeah i played a little bit of him on <hes> saturday night chat kelly he got a full half phil walk the other half and chad kelly scored fifteen c._k. Points or so in in one half of action art. Let's talk about some of these other pieces and how brett will affect them. I think in terms of splits i mean marlin mac wins vers losses astier splits were massive and that was because they did not use marlin mac in the passing game whatsoever when they got behind. It was all the hime hines. There were whispers. Is your evan and i know oh you were on this train. A little bit marla max role would be expanded to pass downs. We saw in the second preseason game. He was on eighteen of nineteen. Snaps included a bunch third downs. How much do you think the colts win. Total as you mentioned dropping from nine and a half to six six and a half is going to affect marlin mack who was so bad last year when the colts losing marlon is a potential <hes> fulltime back <hes> you know right when we broke out the site on july fifteenth because i noticed that his well first of all i remember that nineteen hines was a really popular d._f._s. Play in the playoffs last year and he was just a ghost in the playoffs and that because they started to use marlin mac more in passing situations his routes run per game spiked over the colt colts final four games including play else <hes> but unfortunately had to drop marlin mac from running back thirteen to running back twenty two after the andrew luck news the big blow of course you're here comes with the colts reduced scoring expectation <hes> he marla mac lived on touchdowns last year. He scored ten touchdowns over the colts final ten regular season games but but he only averaged eighty eight point two yards per game during that span. I do think we'll see him. Catch more passes. The colts have really placed an emphasis on using him as more of the truth down back reducing naim hines role and again. It's going to be running behind a great offensive line but his upside just take a massive hit because the culture probably gonna score seven seven to nine fewer points per game so right. Now i have marlin mac behind mark ingram behind david montgomery <hes> antoni michelle just ahead of josh jacobs in team mm-hmm hines is not a guy that anyone should be drafted this point yeah and i i was optimistic or hopeful that marlin <unk> three down but i wasn't certain of it <hes> so i was already. Maybe a little bit lower than you. I'm marla mac. I would have him. Drop way down now to t. y. Hilton though evan is someone who's just like a total freak talent to me. I still think underrated rate in terms of how good t. y. Hilton is but <hes> his splits without andrew luck or bad. I believe it's fifteen point. Five fantasy points per game with andrew luck only eleven point three fantasy points per game without andrew luck in his career. You dropped him from wide receiver seventeen to wide receiver twenty seven. Is there any chance to hilton can sustained stains some type of ceiling here so do i. Hilton last five full seasons with andrew lucky average eighty catches for twelve hundred fifty four yards for season wicha kobe percent in two thousand seventeen see why hilton at fifty seven catches for nine hundred sixty six yards and he played in all sixteen games. You still had spiked weeks which kobe percent but he had so many bad games you finished under sixty yards in twelve of sixteen games actually went over one hundred in the other four so i'm really expecting t y hilton to be pretty frustrating inconsistent player this year especially because the colts have so many other guys now to feed in their offense in that on on that two thousand seventeen it was only two guys that had more than fifty targets on the entire team and it was too i- hilton and jack oil and now you know you've got paris campbell. You got eric. Iran is there jack doyle is back devin funchess devin funchess we we might see marlin accused moore in the passing game <hes> they do have nothing hines and so i dropped u._i. Hilton robbie anderson willfuller sammy watkins range. You know a boomer bust guy in fantasy overall and also a boomer bus guy to week. I think that he's gonna have he's gonna mix spikes but he's also going to have some really bad weeks as well yet. This injury luck injury is gonna completely tank. The average position of jack doyle eric hebron bron paris campbell debit funds. We were already extremely low. You're already outspoken about not being on eric ibran. I believe dropped air hebron completely out of your top one fifty he now d._c. Any merit in any shots on jack doyle hebron peres funchess yet. One of the easiest decisions when we're making these luck fallout changes was i just a poll peres campbell in devon punches out of the top one fifty entirely. They're no longer draft. Worthy in season-long leagues drafted in emma scott fishbowl. I got tyree kill at like six seven turn and i got josh gordon and like the fifteenth sixteenth round but we built that team with the foundation of a cult stack at andrew luck in paris campbell devin funchess and you know i was like really excited about the equity that i got from those this tyree kill josh gordon picks and now the team is doomed so it's over from my scott fish bowl in a flash but <hes> yeah eric broncos already way below consensus on him. He's one of the easiest bus candidates all a fantasy this year that was true. Even before andrew andrew luck <unk> retired no-one subscribing to establish the run was ever even close to considering him if they were using our rankings in tears dumped him from titan heightened thirteen too tight end twenty two. He's right next to doyle now. Who i have a tight twenty three these guys are gonna cancel each other out in fantasy and they're not even really really close the top one fifty at this point all right. Let's move on to this houston. Taxing situation was an eventful saturday night in the a._f._c. South hate to see it but lamar miller went down and by all indications tore his a._c._l. Is going to be out for the season. <hes> luckily i guess for the texans. They traded for do johnson johnson a few weeks ago and everybody wants to say oh do can come in and fill the lamar miller oh. He can't get touched about two hundred fifty times. I just don't understand why i mean. Duke is two hundred ten pounds. He's never missed a game his n._f._l. Career four seasons he averaged more than eighteen carries per game in college. I mean texans gave up a third round. Pick to get him. I i know you made the point. Even before this lamar injury miller injury that teams don't give up third round picks to get running backs. They're just gonna use as a satellite back. I hope that that bill o'brien and the texan staff just says you know what screw it. Let's just get to johnson fifteen to twenty inches of game and see what happens if that happens. I think he's gonna absolutely mostly smash. Despite the offensive line struggles of the texans are where you at with the duke johnson now even after they acquire duke johnson. I still thought that lamar more miller had a shot at two hundred touches still had him as the favourite for carries texan's backfield so we're talking about a ton of opportunity that gets freed up immediately early and i fully expect the texas to add a running back at final cuts. I could see him adding t._j. Yeldan kennedy diction carlos high <unk> they could sign doug martin and you know like this week but this lamar miller injury makes do johnson a clear-cut number one back in houston right now. We already discussed that the kiki q._t. Injury he was helping duke so boosted duke johnson from rb thirty three two rb twenty four. I'm not expecting him to be a true belco. Necessarily charlie you know obviously by that ranking but i'm with you that that i would not rule out the possibility that he becomes when he left miami after three seasons as the all time leading rusher in hurricanes history yep hurricanes have had some pretty damn good backs over the year. I don't know you know clinton portis or frank gore or edgerrin james edgerrin james. I mean my goodness gracious. Do johnson was was a true belco at miami and you mentioned he's not a small guy is just that he got pigeonholed or typecast in cleveland as a passing down only back <hes> but i think he can absolutely handle like thirteen and fifteen carries with three to five catches per game and play. It's none of snaps remember. The texans are going from facing the easiest schedule in the n._f._l. To the toughest based on opponent win totals so they're going to be playing from behind more and throwing the ball a lot more this year and that has been duke johnson's game so far in the n._f._l. I think that if you wanna look at a flyer deeper down their depth chart demaria crockett out of missouri is that guy he went undrafted yet it up and down college career but he's a speed score freak reinforced or flat as pro day at two hundred twenty five pounds. The texans are again. I think that they're going to add a running back but i think the mary crockett is the next best talent in the backfield behind you johnson at one thing about these kind of late news is that they're not reflected in the draft applets. I released the abusing the default rankings article into the draft kit this morning sunday morning and things like do johnson. They're knocking reflecting the athlete for a couple of days so just be aware of that at scroll down and don't be drafting from the apple. We should be drafting off our own rankings laugh off of our own tears and we'll have a big big big advantage as long long as we kind of take into account where guys are in the app also all right. Let's move to another injury here evan <hes> this one doesn't sound too bad. Chow friend of the show seems to think that cam newton is going to be okay. He's been diagnosed with a mid foot sprain. I saw some rumors that you could even practice this week. I guess the concern for me. Evan is like a lot of cam. Newton's fantasy equity is tied up in his rushing. Yeah i mean it was time not that long ago and really going into this year. I think project cam newton for thirty to forty rushing yards and he's going to score five to eight touchdowns with his legs. <hes> over the course of a season mid foot sprain does not sound good for his rushing equity and do you have any concerns on cam newton to you drop him down at all yeah so he's already he added is walking boot and all signs point to him starting in week one as you mentioned the thing you've gotta worry about is whether the foot injury will in any way impact cames mobility <hes> his rushing is obviously a massive part of his real life and fantasy game. He's averaged thirty five rushing yards or more per game in seven of his eight n._f._l. Seasons so i it did drop cam from quarterback seven quarterback ten in the rankings but he's still in the same tier the injury just increases risk you know so you you can take carson wentz. He has a little bit less risk right now. You can take lamar jackson the as a little bit less risk right now and i think that in week one it's gonna be a good kind of wait and see week because he's going to be facing the rams so he's going to be a super contrarian d._f._s. Play and you know you might want to stream over him in season long but then if you look at his schedule after that it is beautiful so it it is on. He gets the buckskin in carolina in week to a terrible cardinals defense in week three and then a potential shootout against the texans in week four. I mean you you really you'd be tough to draw a better schedule from weeks two through four for cam newton so just going to be kinda watching cam newton in that week one game and then if you shows you know no if he shows that mobility that we've expect come to expect from him over the year over the years just fire the cannons on cam newton in weeks two three or four yeah you know i i actually thought cam newton was gonna be a really strong week. One play on decay just because of the way the offense is mesh. I thought that the panthers is going to really explosive and obviously i think the rams offense is going to be really explosive so i thought that game had a really good chance to shoot out. I thought cam to curtis samuel to d._j. More to christian mccaffrey all those. I thought were going to be really really interesting and i mean i guess the main main reason i asked if you're worried about his foot was because i still kinda wanna play a bunch of canned but we'll see i think i think it sounds like he's gonna be okay guy. I'm more concerned about evan is a guy that i've liked for a long time. Maybe i just can't quit him. Maybe i should quit him but feel bad. Jordan reed because this is at least his fifth or sixth sixth or seventh concussion. That's been documented <hes> scary stuff for jordan reed. I hope he takes care of himself. Recurring concussions are really really scary. I do think that we can still take late round flyer on jordan. Should we just move on and take flyer instead on somebody like i for it or war our or hopkinson or hooper herndon or some of these other back in tight ends and just avoid the risk on jordan reed yet first of all. Why were the redskins playing coming out of frigging preseason game that just you know this is why they suck year over your 'cause. They're just stupid. I mean they're like legitimately like one of the worst run organizations in all of sports. Yeah i think to me the knicks and the redskins stick out as is like the two most incompetent franchise actually grew up redskins fan. I was born eighty two in northern virginia and we did see a super bowl with doug williams but once they started started signing snyder came they started signing dion sanders and bruce bruce smith and and everything it's been literally like incompetence for the last twenty years of my life made me more so <hes> yeah it's a great point. I mean they never should have been playing joy reid yeah and it was a brutal hit. If you saw over the middle by keanu neil i mean gene helmet right on helmet hat on hat knocked. Jordan reads helmet right off his head and jordan reed actually got up. He likes spun the ball and he looked pumped up after the play. It was a really nice play. He looked explosive on the play but he wound up in the in the concussion protocol the seventh known concussion of his career. You're so there's just really no telling what's going to happen here. You you wouldn't be surprised. Jordan retired you know but there have been no indications that that's it's on the table yet. I watched a j gruden's press conference on sunday and the redskins are just treating it as just another concussion and jordan reed is going to go through the protocol and get back on the field passes. It man scary stuff for jordan reed <hes>. Let's talk about a couple of more injuries here that have happened. David moore went down in practice and now david moore andy kaye metcalf on the sideline not expectancy david moore in week. One deke metcalf might be back but i would be shocked if he had any kind of real role they do have a home game against the bengals in week one which is obviously a pretty appetizing spot for the seattle offense offense. What do you make of what's going on in seattle. We know tighter lock. It's gonna play every down. I think that gironde brown is gonna play every down. What do you think about the secondary receiver situation seattle seattle yeah. I've noticed that you're on this ron brown train. We're gonna clash about this. I mean is he like minimum price on. This is why you would like if i i i mean i don't i don't think it's necessary to play drawn brown and thirty one hundred on draftkings because like everybody's too cheap. We have so much value. There's no reason to do it. <hes> <hes> yeah for the records ron brown is thirty one hundred which is like basically free <hes> on draftkings yeah and i know that like we would have our group tax and jam into wayne would always liked john brown like don't play but anyways <hes> and sometimes it was right in sometimes around brownwood hit but usually would but yes so. David moore has shoulder injury. That's gonna keep him out probably multiple weeks into the regular season decay metcalf right now questionable for week one after the knee scope <hes> jerome brown is locked into the number two role playing outside tyler lockers can be playing in the slot and then there's a wide open competition for that number three role. Where are you have fourth round. Pick gary jennings who i like coming out of college he has done nothing in camper the preseason this has been well documented by the seattle times and you know n._b._c. sports northwest than just everyone <hes> <hes> brian schottenheimer talk his talked about it in press conferences. Gary jennings has just been a ghost like known as making fewer plays and seahawks camp than gary jennings undrafted free agent jazz ferguson who's been up and down own and then seventh round pick john ursula who has been really good and i'm not sure that there's a ton of near-term fantasy impact here but ursula looks like a guy i to pick up in dynasty leagues. I think that tyler lockett is just gonna crush targets here though and he's the guy that i i really would want to aggressively take in my season-long drafts you talk about week wind from daily fantasy standpoint how about a team stack of the seahawks with russell wilson plus tyler block it plus chris carson love it yeah i mean chris. Carson is too cheap draftkings also he's fifty seven hundred <hes>. I haven't seen his price on fan but yeah. I mean chris. Carson's certainly set up while they're one of the biggest home favorites ten point favorite at home against the bengals. That's the for some that i've heard you say the word fan duel in like four. Let's move onto <hes> <hes> cars high. Let's talk about this kansas city situation because there was speculation there was a lot of people who thought carlos tied <hes> me not make the team now. It seems like that's going to come. I mean every single beat writer who covers the chiefs is saying the cost is going to get cut in the first <hes> with patrick mahomes group in the third preseason game. Damian williams started a scored a beautiful touch on a wheel route. Their williams came in darwin thompson played carlos. Hi did not play with any of those first. I three groups. He came in fourth so it seems like it is going to get cut evan. <hes> what is the fallout here because i could see 'cause getting scooped up to buy one of these other teams that we mentioned and you know obviously the texans <unk> running back also yet we talked about carlos hyde on <hes> one of our very very very first podcast that i was way above consensus consensus on him and you were very skeptical about that and you turned out to be right look so stupid but on my behalf but <hes> i try to be like beijing in my process so as i get more information you know i've been jack and carlos hideout jackson carlos high down moving darwin johnson moving up dharma thompson and now carlos is just completely out of the top one fifty years. I have not wavered on damian williams. He's been my rb eleven for weeks and weeks and i've been getting a ton of him in the middle of the third round on saturday night. I took him at three point zero three in my f. F._c._c. main event draft is my rb ready to behind saquon barkley. You saw his impact down the stretch last year with ten touchdowns in the chiefs last six games and then he caught a wheel route that yeah as you mentioned wrenching while went for sixty two yards in third preseason game his upside is absolutely massive if he can stay healthy i mean it's not crazy to suggest damien. Williams could could be a top three fantasy running back if he stays healthy and he's healthy right now. <hes> i jacked up darwin thompson rb thirty seven. He was previously in the fifties. He's so he's above a._d._p. In our rankings i'm gonna make sure that damian williams and darwin thomson stay above eighty p in our rankings in tears so that you know people that subscribe to establish the run dot com have a really good chance to get both of those guys if they're using the rankings in tears again. This is an offense where you invest you invest in aggressively and then if you wanna go deeper mitch williams she's going to be the number three back and i think that carlos tide like just all signs at this point to him getting cut this kerryon johnson situation and i love karen johnson. I think he's an amazing talent. I was so excited for for theoretical get cut and hopefully that carry on johnson would turn around and a handle on seventy sixty percent of the early worked plus all of the pass downward. I'm afraid evan that matt patricia is such a donkey and things that you need to rest carry on john so he's fresh forward december january. Even though your team is terrible terrible and not play him a lot at the beginning i mean he only was in on the third preseason game. Matthew stafford played eighteen stamps kerryon johnson only eight of them c. j. anderson. I was in for ten tied. Johnson also got some reps early in the game as third down back a are you wavering at all on carry on or should we just stick with it here. We're in kind of ride into the donkey. That is matt patricia. Yeah matt patricia reminds me of these guys that dismissed like early season fantasy football schedules and they just hone in on the fantasy playoff schedules like you have to get to the fantasy claus right so i mean that's nice to look at the fantasy playoff schedules but show so many things change over the course of n._f._l. Season and that's true in real life obviously in that has trickle down effect fantasy but you have to get their man you know so how about let's play our best players so we can get there and that apparently <hes> goes way above the head of <hes> aeronautical engineer near at patricia <hes> who wants to use a two or even three back rotation obviously carry on is gonna be the lead back but it looks like c. J. anderson is going to be on on some third. Downs like it was fancy. Twitter erupted when c._j. Irwin kerryon johnson was in for a third and six in the third preseason game. This was a really really big deal like oh my god. He's got a shot to play on some third downs but she j. anderson is going to be involved also with short yardage situations and i think the tide johnson's going to pick up a little bit at least of the theo riddick roll. The good news is that this is still going to be very much run heavy team so there will be a lot of opportunity despite the committee. The lions haven't average to above average offensive line. They're bringing back four starters upfront. I think all four of those guys or quality starters i in <hes> rick wagner graham glasgow taylor decker in <hes> <hes> frank rag now who suffered an injury in their third preseason season game but it's just a mild ankle sprain so it looks like he's getting ready for week one so that's good news for carry on their alliance defensive personnel is a lot better this year here. They picked up mike daniels. They signed trey flowers from the patriots. They signed justin coleman from seattle really good slot corner so i think that they should be they. Were stay in enough run friendly game scripts and carry on johnson just really good you know and i i did have to drop them from rb twelve rb fifteen so he's now behind. I'm your boy aaron jones and he's behind your other boy leonard for net now but he is ahead of todd gurley and chris carson still. I'm not as excited about kerryon johnson as i was was a few weeks ago but i still think he's a really solid rb to pick <hes> right around the third fourth round turn in seasonal grass yep. That sounds perfect committee where you have him slotted okay. This guy is next hour. We're gonna talk about <hes>. I think i was too low on or too slow to come around on for this season because i'm just so biased against guys who don't catch passes but man sony michelle is set up a so well to have a shot to lead the league in touchdowns to rush for a ton of yards. This damian harris has been slow out of the gate in camp and sony michelle despite all the knee issues that he's had i mean he looked awesome and extremely healthy healthy on saturday night. Brennan thorn rank defensive lines for us who will be doing <hes> office of the offensive line matchups for us during the regular season. He has are ranked. The patriots the number one offensive line this team is so run heavy inside the ten and five yard line evan <hes> sony michelle is gonna get an overwhelming the majority of the early downward james white and rex burkhead are going to get the pass downward but man the early down role in new england is just so profitable touchdowns. I hate to chase he's touchdowns but it seems like sony is gonna score so so many yeah so. Let's just go through the entire time line so soon sony michelle obviously comes out of college with me concerns concerns and he has a niece scope actually as a rookie in the as another one back in may but he's been pretty much all systems go since he's come back act be writers of talked about how good he's looked in passing game in camp and if he could just get up to twenty five catches this year would be big because sony michelle had seven in catches all of last season only had nine catches as a senior at georgia. You mentioned the brennan <unk> as the patriots with the best offensive line in the league. They are bringing back for starters. The only starter that they are replacing trent brown at left tackle and isaiah win. Who was there a first-round round pick in the two thousand eighteen draft missed his rookie season with a torn achilles. I've talked to multiple oh line gurus like <hes> ross tucker for in brandon and they were all very impressed with greg cosell also commented on this they all were very impressed by isaiah win <hes> in the second first and second and third preseason game so that's a good sign and more support for brandon thorn ranking the patriots with the best offensive line in the league a hit. You mentioned his touchdown upside is a mike clay recently appointed out that he seen sony michelle at fifty to one odds to lead the league in rushing. I probably like sony. Michelle's shells odds better to lead the league in rushing t._d.'s but i think he's a good pick either way. The patriots have one of the soft schedules in the league based on opponent windshield. Was they actually do every single year <hes> because they play you know the jets bills and dolphins and the dolphins are looking especially bad this year that's going to help for run friendly unle game strips and i think that this is going to be the one of the best patriots defenses that we've seen in a while so <hes> look sony. Michelle has some limitations. He has some concerns but i have him as the r._b. Twenty one right now which is just ahead of his a._d._p. In f. f._c._c. high stakes lease r._b. Twenty two. I don't have him super super above his a._d._p. But definitely he's gonna be in your crosshairs if you're using the rankings and the tears all right last guy we're gonna hit on tonight is leonard four net. The usage for lennon for net in the preseason third game was awesome and this was i believe the first nick foles played played nineteen snapped learn that was on eighteen of them note that alfred blue didn't play but still leonard fournette was in on i believe was four third-down saw three targets carden. I swing pass truck to dude. There's chances especially now with andrew lock down that jacksonville has passed winning the a._f._c. south <hes> for sure if they do leonard fournette will be a big b being part of it. Leonard fournette also could easily get injured. Leonard fournette could also also easily go wrong between his years. We've seen that before but man from a talent perspective from a pass catching perspective. That's what i'm most excited about. It looks like like they're going to use him as a true three go back and you just don't find that that often in the n._f._l. Anymore so yeah. I don't know i don't really have a question here. Have an i was just excited about learn forgets usage in the third game now. I think that you kinda were getting at a good point that the andrew luck saying has these so massive that it really stands stands to like not only his own team but also his division. I mean i would have ranked the colts as a top five n._f._l. Team entering this susan and i was looking at <hes> five thirty eight and they had the colts as the number nine team and move them down a number twenty one so that's i mean that's that's two games. There's only a sixteen game season one eighth of your season. <hes> just got a lot what year for the running backs in that extends to derrick henry that extends to a leonard fournette and to some extent extends to do johnson <hes> so that's something also keep in mind. We've talked about this before. Leonard fournette is a good receiving back. He had an eighty four th percentile target share at l._s._u. <hes> he averaged about eight nine eight and a half yards per reception in his first two n._f._l. Season t._j. Yeldan is gonna be yelled. Had eighty five catches in twenty. I four games over the past two years. The jags new john filipo big believer in throwing the ball on early downs which is optimal the jags pass attempts as a team should definitely rise right now. I have leonard fournette or be fourteen right in line with his a._d._p. Jags getting back four or five offense alliance starters. Three of those guys ended last season on injured reserve outside of dede westbrook. The jaguars really don't have any pass catchers that are gonna command targets. They they wanna use chris tonle in d._j. Shark on the outside and both those guys can run but neither of those guys you know. The college or the pro level have ever caught a lot of passage. They're not like doc target commanders. Their tight end is jeff swing so leonard. Fournette easily has the highest target projection of his career to date and dan. This guy was a consensus first fantasy pick last year. You can get him in the third round all day long this season. I think he's a great pick in the third round round. Yep totally agree all right. We've said it all <hes> an eventful week three of the preseason staticy andrew luck. Oh sad to hear about lamb. Lamar miller sat to hear about short read but we trudge on for more information like this. Please go to establish the run dot com check out our in-season package while you're there we have a ton of stuff planned that i think will provide a ton of value you guys during the season no matter what you're doing playing season-long fantasy playing d._f._s. Bending props ops whatever you wanna do so four evan for jerry for luke. I am adam good luck everybody and.

evan silva colts andrew andrew lamar miller football andrew luck leonard fournette Irwin kerryon johnson karen johnson Jordan reed jacoby perset perset cam newton andrew lock chad kelly duke johnson patriots seattle johnson Damian williams redskins
NBA Conference Finals

Even Money

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

NBA Conference Finals

"The Starlight lounge presents an evening with the progressive box. Let's go tickling the ivories. He just saved. By bundling home and auto progressive gonna finally by ring for that gal of yours, Hugo Santa Monica dolences. This next one St. there's third. In my all, thank you. Because of casualty insurance company and affiliates. Discounts on available in all states or situations. If you to make your NFL games, a little more interesting. You've come to the right place even money podcast with Russ Tucker and Steve Becic. Yes. Biggest baby Vegas. It is the even money podcast. And of course, we are presented by bed. Online dot AG. Your online sportsbook experts issues that lovely promo code podcast one to get a fifty percent. Sign up bonus today. He is the superstar of the show Steve fezzet, the only two time winner of the Super Bowl of professional football gambling, the super contest at the west gate casino out there in Vegas. He is the pro gambler. Pro handicapper extraordinaire, I am the former NFL offensive lineman five team seven years. It actually makes sense five teams Redskins. Cowboys bills patriots Browns. And now, I think I have five podcast that I am on raw soccer football podcast fantasy fees podcast even money podcast college draft podcast. I'm not on the business of sports podcast. But that's a good one as well. And you brand and then the new ones we've added recently hazard ground podcast, which is just incredible stories of combat veterans that I love listening to of something different for me to listen to these incredible stories of people, that sacrificed the way they did. And then we just added to college football broS podcast, which is awesome. As well. Absolutely. Speaking of awesome, by the way, Steve we got tremendous feedback by the people that took advantage of the opportunity to go to my front page story dot com, like shefty, Adam Schefter and get the best mother's day gift ever. So if you want to get the best Father's Day gift ever or you want to get the best graduation gift ever. Now's the time. My front page story dot com. All right. So Steve I want to start with something a little bit different today. You know, people probably notice that last week's episode had been recorded the week prior. Because I was you know, if you listen to the Ross Tucker football podcast, you know, that I was on a cruise last week with my family and really no ability to record a podcast. So we had done last week's episode two. We before we had done a couple of different parts with Dave Mason. So what that means? Steve is we didn't really talk about the fallout from the Kentucky Derby, which is just unbelievable. And I know you're not a big horse racing guy. Because of the way that that horse race horse racing betting is done, and I get that. But we still need to just talk about it. And I'm sure you have some other war stories or stories of your own from over the years with maybe. Adjustments made or rulings after the fact I mean, Steve how about first of all let's just start with this. Okay. Let's just start with the ruling itself and your thoughts on it. I know you're not big into it. But I'm also because of the pair of mutual. But I also know that you know, you had to follow it along with what happened. What did you think about their ruling? I mean, I'm not a horse expert. But it seemed like it was the right rule. It was the right ruling. And it was refreshing in a lot of ways because how often do we say, hey, call things the way you would call it, regardless of the circumstances. So I guess old school talks about. Wow, you know, you shouldn't make this. You shouldn't call that holding call on the final play the Super Bowl, even though it's holding throughout the game unless it directly impacts the play and I disagree with that a penalty the penalty, and if you're gonna call it in the first quarter, you should call it the last play the game and the same is true in the NBA. If the foul you call it a foul, and everyone I spoke to said, you know, during any normal horse race, of course, went ahead and diverted Blake what happened in the Kentucky Derby that cores horse would get disqualified. And so I believe that they got it. Right. And I think it's good for the integrity of the sport. What did you think about how long it took? Well, they're in is the problem because they took twenty two minutes. And clearly you've gotta be in. When the race is only two minutes long. It just simply should not take that long. I'd make the case of you know, what if it's that if it's the correct call and it's clear it should be clear within five or six minutes. Now, I will say this. And I'm not really privy to exactly how they re ranked the ORs is I guess the disqualify doors didn't wind up being put last but big put seventeenth. So maybe there's some work involved in terms of you know, how far down you lower him for his infraction. So maybe that that's a factor associated with that. So I guess my other questions as it relates to it would be what about the people that ripped up their ticket on the horse that ended up winning, and they were sixty five to one I forget what the name of the horse was that actually one. I know maximum security is the one that got d queued, but what was the name of the horses actually wonder even remember sitting by the way country house, sixty five to one and. Yeah, you know, I know I I don't bet horses. So I know that when it comes to sports if you rip up your ticket, all you need to do is go back and say, look, here's what I made my wager. Here's the amount. And here's. You know, what I what I wagered on? And and it's better if you even can remember which ticket writer, you bet it with but the bottom line is they can go back accounting can find the ticket. And you submit what's called a loss ticket, and there's usually a sixty day window, and then they pay you. I am not sure about the procedures when it in regards to lost tickets for horse racing. So wait a minute say that again, they're able to if if you have like your credit card receipt or something. No, just your you. Don't have any receive at all. But you just go up, and you say, you know, what? Back in August. I bet and NFL future on the patriots to win the Super Bowl. And I remember I bet four hundred dollars at Treasure Island sportsbook, and it was some time in the evening and the payout was so and so and this can be like months and months after as long as you can remember the details the day that you place the wager. The amount you played and how much you bet they can go ahead and submitted what's called a loss ticket, and they send it to accounting and accounting looks on that date on tickets that haven't been cashed and more often than not they can find it. Now sportsbook does not need to do this. But almost all sports books. Do go ahead. And we'll we'll do that inquiry for you and more often than not you'll be fine and get paid. Why just because they want you to keep coming back and be a happy customer, and they feel like over time they'll be able to to win out. Yes. So I think it just good customer service, and I'm not certain of this Ross. But I believe that when there's a loss ticket. It goes obviously eventually to the casino revenues, but I'm not so sure it gets allocated to the sports book revenue. So it's I believe that it's not a big hit on their earnings. I'm not certain about that. But I do know that they will refund you, well, they'll pay out your ticket. If you go ahead and do this procedure. Wow. That's interesting because I'm just looking at it from the perspective of of the derby and the horse race. And I just I can't imagine that I haven't seen anything, and you don't know the procedure. I can't imagine. 'cause I don't remember I've been in the derby once and I placed some bets, but I don't remember anything other than. You know, getting the ticket like, I don't know. I don't know how they would say. Yeah. It was one of the the I was one of the. You know, five hundred people that came to this window or one of these windows, you know, twenty minutes ago and bet five hundred dollars on this horse or a hundred dollars on this horse. I don't man, I don't know. Maybe we can get somebody else on that knows that the horse racing procedure. But I I think those people are out of luck. Yeah. And you gotta feel there's a whole bunch of two dollar and five dollar bets that one that don't get cast. It's almost like, hey, if you could do this, what would prevent you from just going in and submitting a loss ticket, you know, on on every every time there's a circumstance like this. I don't know either. Do you have any good stories? Steve. I mean, you've been doing this. When did you first place, your I bet, and when did you first become like, a professional gambler you'd say? I'm I bent was back. I was twenty one came out to Vegas in nineteen eighty six loved Vegas. I was just bet like fifty dollars on things then I moved to southern California. I got a little more serious about. But I gotta be honest nineteen Ninety-two was really when the the light bulb clicked, and it was clear to me. Wow. The sports books really have no idea what they're doing. And that any better that really was making any kind of effort was going to be able to get a big edge against the sports books back in the early nineties. Now, it's changed a lot. It's gotten much more difficult but back then it was literally as easy Ross as I was studying for my actuarial exams. I was I was becoming an actuary, and it was difficult for me not to get Tobago's because I realized wow, you know, just I can't believe some of the the bets that they're offering. And accepting from the betters. Wow. And that was like a ninety two give me example. What why were they so bad back? Then I'm curious now. The best example, I can give us parley cards. You could just go out there on the late on Friday night. They'd have these pre-printed odds on on parley cards, and I noticed this almost immediately, and they would basically round up all the odds to the nearest half point, which doesn't sound like a big difference. But like an NFL when a team was favored by three. The lines would always be plus three and a half on the underdog at almost every place and some places with even rounded up the plus four and a half. And there would be games where the spread would go down to two and a half. If you went up to the board and you wanted to wager on the underdog, but you could still get plus three and a half, and even in some cases, plus four and a half on the parlay cards. So long story short you could you could play three team parlors you could play sixteen parlays at odds that were as good as what the odds were off the board where he got the true odds and you're getting two extra points on NFL games. You're getting three four extra points on some. In college games. So like northwestern would be playing Illinois Illinois would have some injuries. The spread would go down from twenty two to eighteen and a half and on the parlay card you could bet northwestern plus twenty two and a half. And no one was doing it was it was just a mystery to me that the better just seemingly. It didn't seem like there are any sharp betters back in the early nineties doing this. And I actually was part of a team in for like a really throughout the mid to late nineteen ninety s that's all we did is for the most part is bet on parlay cards because it was so much more profitable than any other way to wager. Wow. That's awesome. Man. That is really awesome. All right. So the reason why I asked you that though is because I'm curious do you have any could stories or any examples? Of something similar to the Kentucky Derby where you know. Something was changed after the fact that materially impacted one of your bets, and or maybe even threw away your ticket. I know horse racing might be a little bit different. But do you have any examples of anything like that where something happened after the buzzer after the whatever so to speak which affected your bet? I think the best example, I can remember and it's foggy. It's so long ago. But I believe it was New England was playing buffalo and New England was a three point favorite and New England was outplayed the entire game. And then at the very end of the game doing those down four and driving. So if you've got buffalo you're saying to yourself. All right. I'm home free here. If I got the plus three and a half and on the very last play the game New England scores to win by two and the teams. Go ahead, and and buffalo leaves the field and discuss they got job by the rest and the like New England sticking around because they're smart, and they know that by rule you need to go ahead and kick the extra point. So there's the New England team is on the field. Buffalo's not coming back out and by role. They're supposed to go and run the play there in field goal formation. I don't know if you remember this game chime in Ross if you do and New England snaps the ball, and the holder just goes ahead and flips the ball to the kicker who's running out of bounce just jogging off the field. He literally makes a left hand turn right before going out of bounds and goes into the end zone for the two point conversion New England. Winds by four all the buffalo. Betters lose. What? And the bills weren't out there. They the Bill I think it was the bills. I'm not one hundred percent, sure. But I can tell you it was New England and their opponent was not on the field. Why why was the guy just going to run out of bounds? Well, they didn't know what to do. They'd won the game already. So they're like just kind of Molin around trying to figure out what to do. Wow. What what did where you that? Do not find that one out if the listeners out there if anyone remembers this game, let us know do you know who you bet in the game? Yeah. I had some plus three and a half. I'm the underdog is still remember it. Oh my gosh. That's and you know, what Steve. This was the first year wasn't it where they change the rule where you no longer have to do the point after a no situations. Yes. And with good reason for just cases like I just described. No, I think we talked about it when they instituted that rule that wasn't enough though to impact how you would feel about underdogs in games or total or anything that that, you know, that's not enough to move the needle. It's not the move the needle. But of course, it does create the the one thousand games where there's that crazy outcome. Yes. Wow. That's amazing. That's a great story. I didn't know that. I never heard of that. So that it's gotta be before my time, maybe in the nineties I was with buffalo and three and four hours with New England and all five I would have heard of it. If it was since then, so must've been ninety s I think it was in the nineties. Wow. That's incredible. All right. Cool. Well, we had to talk about the Kentucky Derby since we didn't dive into it last week. That was amazing tonight starts the NBA conference finals. And it's interesting, Steve because he's the only one I guess marquee team in the Golden State Warriors, and you've got Toronto Milwaukee, and and Portland, and by the way, speaking of crazy endings how about the Colli Leonard shot against the Sixers that hit the rim four times. The I'm a Sixers fan that hurt bad. It defied the laws of physics that. I know there was a snapshot. At one point the ball is not even over the rim after the first bounce. And somehow it spins back over it's the rim again and winds up going in. I think that seventy Sixers, you know, there's a debate going on about the ability around Embiid or do you move on from Embiid and trade him and bid in the final two games and game six and seven was a plus fifty in plus minus. So when he was on the court, the seventy Sixers outscore Toronto by fifty points without him. They were minus forty one points. That's a pretty telling stats that Philly for all of the accolades at that starting lineup that great. Starting lineup has best in the east and beat as the superstar as long as he's healthy as long as he doesn't have whooping cough, or the chicken, pox or some other mouth. Adi and his knees are holding up in his feet. Don't break. You gotta go with Embiid. If you're Philly, and he's your horse. You gotta ride. Yeah. Or stomach ache even had like a stomach ache that he calls them the a game. I think don't even get me started. All right. So and for the warriors Kevin Durant status is up in the air. So I guess that's my first question to you. Steve is that how much of an impact does that have? Or do you still think the warriors are clearly the favorite even without him? Which would be crazy, by the way. Yeah, they would not be the favorite without him. So Milwaukee would be clearly perceived to be the better team without him. I will say this Davis has been moving point spreads three and a half points. When Durant is not playing and too much of an adjustment. And the reason being as good as Durant is. And he's arguably the best player in the NBA. He's just not that important for Golden State. And the reason is is that Durant and curry for whatever reason curry plays. Better when Durant isn't playing and so he can take the role of the alpha dog and take control the game. When Durant is off the court and the spacing for the offense of Golden State just seems to improve when the other players went Durant is not playing and because of that the last three years really forty years now with Durant. Golden State has won seventy five percent of the games without Durant. Golden State has won seventy five percent of their game. So they haven't missed a beat without him. So their bench is woefully weak. And they'll Livingston and loonie played well their bench in game six against Houston. We'll see if that continues kind of refreshing in some ways in the NBA final four, we've got three what I would call smaller markets. I know Toronto's not smaller market, but non traditional market teams in Portland, Milwaukee. Toronto here in the final four. Unbelievable, steve. And I want to get your thoughts on this. Because I tweeted this after the raptors beat the Sixers, you know, the raptors had the best player in the series in Kuwait, Leonard. And then I would say the next best player was Embiid. The next best players probably Ben Simmons or Jimmy Butler. And then the next one's either the other one after that, you could maybe say, it's Kyle Lowry. Or Tobias Harris or whatever. But my point is is the Sixers had the second third and fourth best players in this series and arguably the fifth, but it's unbelievable. How important it is in the NBA to have the best player in this series? Like like Jaanus for the bucks against the Celtics or Kawai Leonard for the raptors against the Sixers. It's it's unbelievable. It really is. When you you look at that Philly starting five, and you could make the case that Rettig the fifth best starter Philly is as good as the second best starter Seok them. I mean, you mentioned Lowery also for Toronto. Basically, it's the quiet Leonard show and the bench for Toronto completely disappeared. A Bacha played some nice games. They've a real. During the regular season. Toronto had a good bench and Fred van bleed averaged eleven points per game me every two points per game in the seven game series inventively shot fifteen percent from the field. So he was terrible nothing from the terrible terrible. And I've always been a big fan of deleting and talk about how he's undervalued in the marketplace. And he was just just absolutely awful CRM comes down with a calf injury. But it doesn't matter because if you got the best player you can will team victory. Now, I will say this a Bacha was awesome in game seven when they needed them. So that was that was big and Kyle Lowry. I mean, how how how the raptors got that many? Second shots. Sixers went three straight possessions without getting shot off and having the shot clock violations. I I mean, I've never seen anything like it. Anyway, let's move on your thoughts on what we should be looking to bet or what people should be looking at whether it's to win it all at this point or just within the series for both NBA conference finals while there's only four teams left. The markets are incredibly efficient, and I don't really see value right now anywhere. Golden State is a big favourite to be Portland and minus five thirty take back four thirty I'm Portland, and I think that that's properly priced. I'm not certain Durant coming back game five or game six or at all in the series, but certainly expect Golden State to win. And then Milwaukee does seem a little bit high Milwaukee's minus three hundred to be Toronto Toronto plus two fifty roster on who's been a two to one. The dog to win the east to route really the entire year. Now, they're in the east finals, and they're bigger underdog there plus two fifty that's shocking to me. I'd lean a little to Toronto at that price. But Milwaukee's been playing awesome. They really have been. I was surprised the way they took it to the Celtics and then. So you would lean Toronto. And then in the in the Western Conference, you're leaning Golden State. Yes, I do think that Milwaukee probably is going to be a good bet against Golden State because Milwaukee they don't have the experience, but just in terms of performance that play in every bit as well as Golden State is, and they'll certainly be an underdog against Golden State, and Milwaukee the homecourt advantage. The other thing I wanted to ask you about is there any is there anything to bet individual there? Steve or anything the bet in terms of going winning it all right now. I don't think. So I don't see any value. I'd I would pass. Okay. I know what you're going to say, it's a major, which means fade Tiger Woods PGA championship. I know you like a book at this point major means fade tiger right now it used to be that way. Now, we got a just and I've been talking about this actually for a little while the problem with fading tiger. As before he won the master's. If you went back to the last two majors last year Tigar didn't win, but he had the best composite eight round score of any golfer in the world so tiger despite all the public betting irrationally on them actually got his game back at the end of last year. And because of that tiger became worthy of being one of the favorites to go ahead and win the championship. Now, what's happened is? That because he's Tiger Woods. He's become such a prohibitive choice for the public debate on there's no value bending on them. But currently Tigers ten to one to to win the next major and he's the number one choice. And is he the best golfer in the world? Nobody certainly playing like a top five golfer right now. So I would say that for now we we're going to stay Pat and not auto against tiger. I would love to see tiger have another great tournament. And then I think we start betting against him as the year progresses. Note to the have time today Steve to get into an Email question, but we will next week. So hopefully, people keep them coming. And that's it next week. We'll get into some NFL stuff. There's there's more divisional Super Bowl odds that are out there. Now that we've got more information thousand good Ross. And by the way, if you bet on the saints to go to the Super Bowl, and you bet on the Kentucky Derby winner that got disqualified. It might just not be your Cup of tea to keep betting, right? Yeah. Good to go way to describe it. Terrific stuff. As always Steve. I am pumped up for the NBA conference finals which kick off tonight. I always appreciate your Tiger Woods thoughts. And unlike when we can answer an Email question, keep those coming police Ross at Ross Tucker dot com, there is not a bad question, especially when it comes to even money podcast because if you're asking it, I'm sure I have it. And if I have a lot of other people do as well, no such thing as a dumb question. Keep them coming Ross at Ross Tucker dot com. Just let me know it's four Steve it's for even money. And if you take advantage of one of our sponsors, I guarantee I asked Steve on the show. The sponsors are always over there over at Ross, Tucker dot. Dot com on the sponsor tab, very very cool other than that. Make sure you're checking out today's cows draft podcast. Matt Waldman is total stud eleven hundred pages. His rookie scouting portfolio eleven hundred pages. Are you kidding me? We'll have Andrew Brandt tomorrow on the Ross Tucker football podcast end its dynasty rankings time on the fantasy feast with Evans Silva tomorrow as well. Other than that, good luck. Everybody hope because win some money. Thanks for listening to the even money. Just make sure to also subscribe to the Russ Tucker football podcast fantasy feast podcast and the college draft podcast all available on itunes and rust dot com. Or wherever podcasts can be found that farmers insurance. 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Steve NBA NFL Kevin Durant Golden State Toronto Ross Sixers Milwaukee Kentucky Derby Ross Tucker New England Portland Steve it Russ Tucker Vegas Philly Embiid Kawai Leonard
2020 AFC Win Totals

Even Money

32:01 min | 10 months ago

2020 AFC Win Totals

"If you'd like to make your NFL Games a little more interesting. You've come to though right place. It's the even money podcast with Russ Tucker and Steve Vegas Baby Vegas. It is the even money podcast and looking for a place to make your online wagers head over to bed online dot. Ag Use Promo Code podcast one and get a fifty percent sign up today but online dot ag there. Your online sportsbook experts. He is our podcast expert. Each and every week the one and only Steve Fantastic at physics sports on twitter and only at physics sports on twitter except no imposters. Because there are imposters out there. I'm Ross Tucker former. Nfl Offensive Lineman five teams seven years. Now Five podcast. Business of Sports Andrew Brand College Draft Matt Waldman fantasy feast with Joe Dolan and Ross Tucker Football podcast with my guy. Brian Neal longtime producer for RT media producer end partner for RTC media. I should say Steve. Of course the only two time winner of the Super Bowl a professional football gambling the super contest at the West Gate last week we dove in the NFC season win. Totals our first look this week. Afc again not our official plays that we get graded on those will come down the pike at the end of training camp and after the third preseason game but we still like to give you guys are. I look because we might be able to provide you with some value getting in now before the number gets beat up or down. Or there's free agency or the draft and plus. It's just fun to take a first look at it for sure so we will dive into the AFC Today. Friendly Reminder this podcast year round. Tell Your Buddies. There's always pro football stuff. Nfl stuff to bet on. There's also other stuff other sports will obviously be diving into March madness next week in full form going to be awesome. Alright Steve. Let's dive into the AFC after we hit the NFC last week and the Baltimore. Ravens are the first team up. Eleven Wayne Steve. Eleven for the Ravens. Weapons a big number. Baltimore was truly incredible. Astro you forget about how well this team really played so really. You're handicapping is Jackson going to be able stay healthy for the entire year. And that's too big of a question mark for me to be able to play over so I will pass on eleven. Y'All think that number is exactly right. If I had to pick I would pick the under if I had to lean one way or the other you know. They stayed very healthy last year. Matt Scott was sort of the only injury they had at center out. Expect them to have more injuries. This year I think defense is will have a much better plan for Lamar Jackson and Greg. Roman after they sort of go to option school. If you will talking with defensive coordinators in college this off season I also think you know at some point. Lamar Jackson is going to get dinged up and miss a few games. At least I'm not saying serious but he's going to miss them games I don't think. Rg Threes at great backup. So I would lean under on the eleven wins there for the Ravens. They might even lose jude on. And they don't have any pass rushers if they lose him in free agency. So I'd be under there. What about the Buffalo Bills? Their numbers only eight and a half. Steve Looks about right to me. Josh Allen played much better I'm sorry then What I expected and Alan having mobility in his legs really Made him a very capable quarterback. I just go back to Buffalo. I have a bias. Ross Against Buffalo New Love Buffalo. So we should talk about this. I never feel that Buffalo or Detroit or Cleveland can field a PL- a playoff team because there's no real Recent history of success and they're just cities that no one would wanna live in. So I think they have to pay through the nose to get free agents so I just don't see success continued success being possible. Absent a all star quarterback. How do you feel about that crazy theory? Well I think what's crazy about it is. I don't think that they need to pay through the nose. They just have to be the highest. But I'm not sure that that's that much different than the other teams. I mean when I was there. They signed free agents like London Fletcher. Takeo spikes lawyer Malloy Sam Adams I mean they signed a bunch of dudes so it wasn't like and they haven't made the playoffs in a long time now they. They made the playoffs last year and they should have won a playoff game. And so I. I don't agree with that. I think there's a lot of people that believe that I like the over for the bills. And yes maybe I'm biased. But I don't know what they won. Ten Games last year could have been more. I think that they're a pretty darn good team. I don't think Josh Allen is going to get worse. I think they know what they are and who they are. Yeah I I would take the over. I'm I'm surprised by the eight and a half number especially when you consider that New England. There's a lot of uncertainty there. I mean what a Brady doesn't go back to New England. Yeah that's a great point and and bottomline. Mcdermott is probably a top ten coach. The top ten coach. No one would ever put on their top ten list. He really does a great job. Yeah I'm surprised by that number that would that would be one of the ones I would feel strongly about at this point and I don't think that is just my bias showing again. These numbers come to us from bet online dot. Ag They are. Of course your online sportsbook experts use the Promo Code. Podcast one you get the fifty percent. Five Zero Welcome bonus from our folks bet online dot. Ag We get all of our season win total numbers all of our doll for lines over totals from online DOT AG SCROLLING. Down there football winning. Nfl team winds page right now and the next team up is Cincinnati bengals very interesting given the sort of vague comments from Joe Borough as of late Steve Topic last week. You know he won't really commit to wanting to play for the bengals their numbers five and a half your thoughts love. Joe Borough hate the bengals. So much talk has come out X. Bengal saying that they never felt the bengals or even trying to compete or make the Super Bowl and let's face it. As far as the destination city no one wants to play for Cincinnati. It's not like it's Balmy in southern Ohio. Also so I would only look under five and a half in a complete rebuild year. Where they're gonNa take borough and let's face it burrows GONNA smile and say. Hey. I'm I'm from Athens. Ohio this is. This is great. I'm coming back to Ohio. And he's GonNa be really unhappy about it and that's GonNa show I think and Under five and a half make sense. Yup I think I probably lean under five and a half as well but I do think that if they have borough they'll get to four or five wins but I just think four or five is more likely than six or seven especially with. I think the steelers will be better in. The browns will be much better coached and the ravens are good so I don't know how much better the bengals will be especially with a rookie quarterback so I liked the under there speaking of the browns. They're at eight wins right now and I would go under I. It's interesting I was thinking that the browns were going to be an over team for me because I thought kitchens was a horrendous coach. And I'm like Oh they'll get a real coach in there and he'll be worth two to three wins right off the bat with that roster but I gotTa tell you this defense key higher You Know Minnesota is a lot of Dissension from their wide receivers. Where digs was like? He runs the ball too much. I'm not getting the ball and See you say the same thing if you're getting problems in Minnesota what's going to happen with these Prima Donna wide receivers in Cleveland that. We're already screaming at the coach. When Cleveland starts running the ball half the time with Stefanski. I think that's a major problem. I would look eight wins. That's interesting I think. Eight wins is just about right. You know what I might I might. I might lean under to Steve. I don't have a strong lean but it just does feel like it has the potential to implode there and really if Baker Mayfield gets off to a bad start then you start to have the conversation about whether or not. He's the long-term answer or whether or not he's the guy that they should be interested in it that they should have. I mean that's a whole other conversation then especially when there's a new coach in town. What about the broncos there at eight wins as well Steve? Yeah interesting because I thought they were gonNA come seven and a half and I did see some nice improvement from Denver certainly over the course of the year But I gotTa Tell Ya at. Adp they're going to be the quarterback right. Yeah as far as we know. Yeah I gotta go under eight. I you've got a completely unproven quarterback that I don't believe that had a couple of nights games and I guess maybe I'm just Faden get putting too much weight on that game in Kansas City where it was snowing and he was just horrendous You got a bad quarterback. I'm going to go under eight for Denver. I think eight eight the right number. I mean they won. They won seven last year and I thought lock looked pretty good at the end of the year. That division is rough. They might be getting Brady. You never know but I guess some faith in in Fangio I. I'm just gonNA pass this one. I don't really have a strong lean either way. What about the next team on the Docket Steve? And we get into some. Afc South teams here including the Houston. Texans they are at eight and a half number. Sure looks low to me concerning. The Texans had a really really difficult schedule last year. Still got through. It made the playoffs and really like the quarterback so based upon now I would expect that Houston loses in the first round of the playoffs again seemingly but Over eight and a half would be the only way I look. Yeah I think if I had to lean right now I'd say over it's almost. He's not quite there. Steve but I feel like Shawn Watson is almost like Russell Wilson. Ask that you're like you know what as long as they have that guy. They're going to win nine games so I would lean over because of basically just that the Shawn Watson factor. Yeah I agree and it goes back to a few of a clear. Cut Top ten quarterback. Which Watson is you're typically going to win nine games so it's rarely wrong to make that bad unless of course that quarterback has quarterbacking the Detroit. Lions Okay staying there Indianapolis Colts seven and a half really like this one. I like the over because I think they're going to get Philip rivers and I think they're going to win at least eight or nine games. Philip rivers now. This is interesting. I really like over if percents quarterbacks because I think that the number for indy last year was seven and for the vast majority of the year Indie was trending looking. Like they're going to win nine and be a playoff team and then the wheels came off. There's a game. They're tied late in the game. And they got a field goal blocked for touchdown that they lost that game against the titans And their kicker couldn't make a field goal seemingly all year long and they lost a whole lot of close games. So here's the team that won seven easily could have won nine or ten with perset having said that. I'm on an island here. I think rivers. I shouldn't get a job. I think he's clearly not a top twenty quarterback Brady really regressed but rivers just fell off the cliff and I know Brady's a lot older than rivers but I think rivers has completely lost it. They didn't see may be able to throw a fastball. His first four weeks. He was a little bit above average quarterback after that he was horrible. The rest of the year with a really good charger squad. So because of that I need percent not rivers. If so I'll play over interesting I'd feel better about rivers. I'm not ready to say that it was all on him. They're all line was terrible and now two thousand eighteen. They went twelve and four and he was awesome. I just find it hard to believe that. He fell off that much. Because it's not like he's a guy that's done it with his athleticism. He's not a guy that had a big arm or that moved around. It's always been his brain so I like I like the over seven half if they have rivers it they have probably like the over either way but if they have rivers I feel better about than if they have perset. What about this sad sack Jacksonville? Jaguars at six and a half. Well if there's one that looks completely wrong far for me to tell better line how to do. Their business but How is Jacksonville GonNa win? Seven Games especially with the news. Oh they're gonNA play two games now in London. Got Ask you about this Ross so as an NFL player. How would you feel about having to Do A ten day road trip to England probably in October in the middle of the season. How would you feel as a fan and organization? I gotTa feel that. This is almost A mutiny against the city of Jacksonville. I don't think that that's positive. And frankly they could play all their games at home. And I still don't think Jacksonville would win eight games. I love under wouldn't like it all that much. Now it's a little different if they let you bring your family. I tend to doubt that'll be the case. I don't think they WANNA pay for that. I don't want to let these guys bring their families so that part of it kind of bothers me too. I'm going under who? Who'S A quarterback MINHSIU? I mean I'm I'm just not convinced they're going to get to seven or eight wins. I think four or five or six winds is a lot more likely than seven eight or nine. I can't believe they brought back marrone and Caldwell under six and a half is one of my stronger plays all right steve the highest number on the board. Nfc last week or AFC. This week it is the Kansas City chiefs defending super bowl champs eleven and a half a big number. Steve and I only look over. I've been Taliban the chiefs forever as being undervalued and I mentioned it before there are teams that used to be aligned at twelve wins the premium teams typically were projected to win twelve wins. And I can't. I can't the city rated as high as any team. I had rated over past five years so if they're the very best team the last five years in the NFL well they should win. Twelve or more games. I would only look over. Wow that's I mean that goes against everything you always say about. Eleven and a half. And there's a reason why that's as high as they go and Blah Blah Blah. Well that's why I keep power ratings because all these other eleven and a half rated teams where power rated like touchdown better than average team and Kansas City. Was Power rated ten points better than an average team that this can't say team that absolute? Juggernaut and I tell you what if They don't have to play Matt Moore Three Games. And if you don't have mahomes ankle issues along with his kneecap issues later. That team would have been fourteen and two and then their season with number would have been twelve or twelve and a half you know what Steve. It's a pretty good point. It's a pretty compelling. I'm kind of going to go along with you there. I'm going to say I would lean over. It's not as strong lean but I would lean over for the reasons you mentioned. How about for the first time on this podcast with the guy who lives in Vegas I am going to say Steve? What do you think about the Las Vegas Raiders? And their season win. Total of seven number. Looks right to me. If cars the quarterback you know you gotta wonder what the effect of moving to Vegas is going to be on the one hand. You've got distractions so you're moving from to two very different cities Oakland versus Vegas. You've got the Vegas distractions. We talk about the Vegas flu when teams flying in the NHL in play here. Biggest can be very fun city and that could be not conducive to putting your best foot forward as an athlete. I don't think this impacts hockey players as much as football players or basketball players However there's a whole lot of excitement. That community loves the raiders. So I can see a tremendous homefield advantage or new stadium despite a lot of opposing fans. Coming that stadium as well And I liked car at quarterback so it really comes down to. Will they stick with car? There's that Murdoch's not happy with car and Oakland might get rid of it. They get rid of car for somebody else even Brady. That's a horrific mistake because cars much better than Brady now at their points in their career so at the current number seven. I would stand pat with Oakland if they get Brady. It's one of my biggest bets on her. Well I think seven seven's about right if I had to. I guess I would take the over. I think those people will be going crazy for them. They won seven last year. I don't really see 'em getting worse. You know they had the Holy Antonio Brown distraction and everything. So I I I would if I had to lean one way or the other I think seventy good number but I would lean to the over. What about the chargers at seven and a half again? We have no idea right. Now who their quarterback is. We know. It's not going to be Philip rivers. I gotTa Tell. You love the chargers now if they get Brady. Brady's knocking to not get at least eight wins. But I don't know who else they. We get Jaimes Winston Cam Newton tyrod Taylor Justin Herbert or some kid in that draft. If that's the case love the under seven and a half. Yeah you gotTA wonder the. I'm having a mental block here this year. The Rams and the chargers move into the new stadium right. Ross does correct and that stadium. Move. I would imagine seats. Seventy thousand and there will be what seven thousand charge offense and a lot of empty seats in opposing Team fans in that stadium. So my goodness House the team going to go eight when they're playing sixteen road game. I would only look under. You know what I think it. You gotta go under and especially. If they don't get brady that would be one of my stronger. Plays what about the Miami Dolphins there at five and a half Steve Interesting because logic would say hey. They looked like they were taking the first couple of games and four as did a great job coaching and they won five games. And despite all this distractions of whether they're taking for two etc certainly they should be able to win more than five games. But then you look at the overall roster and you say you know this team just not any good and they overachieved with Fitch Magic last year so I am. Torn on my. I WanNa wait I wanNA. I'M GONNA pass a Miami for now and doing valuation as August rules around pretty tough not knowing the quarterback situation. I'd lean over because I think fits. Ob there in some way shape or form. The issue is what if they draft a quarterback and they want him to play. I'd still lean over right now but I don't feel great about it. How about the New England Patriots there at ten and a half? I think you've gotta go under on New England and I know I talk about never ever ever bet against New England but that offense was bad last year Brady wasn't very good and they just had no skill position players they tried. Ab didn't work out. maybe their first round draft pick. Hardy works out and it gets healthy But the Ataman is so banged up maybe part of that from Brady Thrown Ducks. Getting them killed over the middle but elements thirty three so his best years are behind him. They have no tight end. Play and Sony Michelle. Ross you could. You could have tackled him last year. So that defense is going to have to be awesome again for them to win. Eleven Games and I'm not sure it's going to be. I could only look under. I hate doing that with the Patriots but I kind of feel like you have to. They get some real challenges with free agency with Brady. Joe Tuni I mean a bunch of guys really and the defense was like a statistical outlier that the odds of them being able to replicate that or really small so I liked the under ten and a half wins as well. What about the jets at six and a half? You know that's interesting. 'cause you said about the jets were terrible last year. All those injuries. I don't even my goodness. What was the jets? Third String quarterback. Ross that just rent fall Luke Falk. Oh God yes so. I mean the fact that they could win seven despite forfeiting some games with Luke. Falk means you gotTa feel the jets can win seven again. I look over I mean how do you how do you not look over? I mean especially darnold. Missed a bunch of games. They still won seven. Somehow Greg Williams an unbelievable job with that defense and I do have faith in Joe Douglas. To general manager that he'll help the offensive line. Help the defense. What about the steelers at nine winds guys it all comes down to whether big bad is going to be healthier not right and because I don't know that I got to see him. At least throw some passes and practice. Maybe I wait till the third preseason game probably the only half is going to play in the preseason and make an evaluation then I liked the over. I think Ben's GonNa play and I'd be surprised if they don't win at least nine games if he plays I mean he wants to play he's motivated. He's coming back. I don't mean I don't know how they don't win at least ten and eleven a lot more likely than seven or eight. I would take the over there right now for the Pittsburgh steelers. What about our last one? Steve It is the Tennessee. Titans tire interest is sorry. Their numbers eight and a half. Yes you know. They really found themselves a quarterback. And are they going to keep him? Is Ten. GonNa be the quarterback. If he is you know dare can restore around and love their coaching. Rabl I would go over eight and a half as long as they retained. Tanno how do you not? I mean the way they finished the year. How do you not do that? I mean I just. I don't I don't know how you could not say they're going to go over there. I'm a little surprised by that number to be honest with you. Steve sure looks like it's going to get up to nine. That's one I would grab right now over the eight and a half last question for you tomorrow. The combine workouts start and there are some lines out there from bed online in terms of forty times for Joe Perrault. Justin Herbert even chase young receivers Who has a faster forty time between Henry Rugs and Jalen Rieger? Does rugs break the record? Have you ever bet anything? Combine it all. I have not but I would imagine that your advantages in these have to be enormous if you have inside information because let's face it all these all these players probably know exactly what they're going to run who have taken it seriously and they've gone ahead and run it before so if you've got access to that information you probably can get some great bets absent that how do. I know who who went ahead and worked with the track coach. The past two months to improve their forty and who just Maybe was nursing an injury and basically did not give the combine their full focus absent that information. I can't bet any of this. Yeah I'm kind of with you as well I. That's that's a tough one but man. Can you imagine if you're that the guys that train these guys you could absolutely clean up on it? I don't know what the limits are but you can have a real real good idea or you could i. It's not worth it because of what the limits would be but you get to. Hey just run a little bit slower. Nobody really cares that much. What you know what? Ross this is one of those cases where regionally if you're like you're close by Penn state it you literally could drive to the school and I'm sure you could track down some of these dudes and just say hey. What do you think you're going to be able to run that forty in and I bet you I bet you. There's no reason for the player not to be honest about this stuff you know. I bet you could actually just Do Research that way or have someone do research for you and get some winning bets. It's a good point Steve. Speaking of good points when it comes to comfort down below there's underwear Ross. And there's Tommy John The revolutionary clothing brand. 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Hurry to Tommy John Dot com slash even money for twenty percent off your first order. That's Tommy John Dot com slash even money twenty percent off. Ross Steve. That was great man. I love our season win. Total episodes every time so fun. Absolute blast now. Everybody needs to go to bed online. Dot AG. Use the Promo Code Podcast. One like we always say that's the key to everything. Is that code? Make sure if you can spread the word on social media is huge for us. It's much appreciated and if you can just download the podcast multiple times multiple devices. Why not you don't know if you're gonNA listen on your phone on your laptop on your ipad who knows Apple Podcast. Rankings and comments are always huge. 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Michael Newman - College Football Bros.

The College Draft with Ross Tucker

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Michael Newman - College Football Bros.

"Uh-huh. At the Home Depot by ryobi one plus two pack batteries starter kit for just ninety nine bucks, and get one of over twenty select ryobi one plus tools to an eighty four dollar value free, the one plus system. Also fits over a hundred and twenty five other ryobi tools. So now going cordless is almost endless by the battery kit, yet a free tool. Ryobi days now at the Home Depot. More saving, more doing about the June nineteenth limit one per customer, while supplies last Easter or for details. Cold one strike, and listen to Russ Ducker. Philadelphia Eagles film junkie, Fran. Duffy breakdown, the top college prospects on another tasty edition of the college draft. Yes, it is. Daddy, soda time here on the college draft podcast, which is always presented by bet. Online dot AG. You guys know the deal promo code podcast. One for the fifty percent. Welcome bonus. I'm Ross Tucker. Former NFL offensive lineman five teams seven years, and we maneuvered a little bit differently ever since the draft or really just before beginning at different guest on pretty much every week. And today is no different. We will be joined by my new buddy Michael Newman from the college football broS podcasts. So we have looked at the draft from. Almost every angle. Right. We've had Matt Waldman. We've had Kyle crabs. We've had other people come on and give their thoughts on the draft. What about from college football perspective? What about who are the guys that you can't believe? They went that high or went that low and what it means for different college football programs. Well, we recently brought aboard the college football broS podcast to our repertoire over at RT media Ross Tucker dot com. I listened to several episodes. These guys are awesome. It's three brothers talking about college football, and it's hilarious when they have a great reporter, and I wanted to bring them in the full, because we don't really have college football show. We have the college football draft show, the college draft podcasts. But nothing really. That's just talking college football not from a draft perspective. So very excited today to be joined by Michael Newman. Who's kind of the head. Brother of the college football rose. You can follow them on Twitter at C. F. B broS at C F, B broS, and they all have the same dad. They all graduated which is why I'm going to awkwardly mention really quickly that if you don't have a Father's Day gift yet. It's my front page story dot com less than a month away, and it takes some time to write the story, the people that got him for mother's day. The mom's crying unbelievable. Give your dad because gift he's ever gotten or even if you have like a college or high school graduate out there, a wedding gift, there's a lot different reasons why you go to my front page story dot com, but I digress. It is Michael Newman 'time. Let's do it. So Michael, I guess I want to start by talking about what the draft means from a conference perspective and the amount of talent. In each conference because, you know, the SEC dominated again, and it feels like they dominate more and more each year. Oh, the ACC usually has a pretty good run at it to Clemson helps and then I know you're out there and Kelly, Pac twelve bro. Holy cow. I mean, what a terrible year for the pack of I don't even have the stats in front of me. I just know it was a real bad year out west. Yeah. I think that is definitely the perception out there. But I think I can kind of dispel that notion a little bit. Obviously, you're right about the SEC. They're they're dominating. The way they had sixty four players drafted I believe that's the most ever for a conference. So no surprise there. But there actually is kind of a cluster behind them of, of three conferences. You got the big ten the big twelve and maybe surprisingly the Pac twelve and if you look per team that, that each of those conferences had had. Players drafted. They're all right about the just above two and a half players per team. Obviously, the big ten has more teams than the big twelve and Pac twelve but I think right now the Pac twelve is not in as dire straits as, as the perception is out there. Of course, they don't have the top school in the conference right now that's competing for playoff, spots, and certainly not national championships. But I think the situations at USC and UCLA are the reasons they're, they're getting the talent under Jim Moret UCLA was getting the talent even underplay Helton USC has been getting it. And you've been seeing that in the draft, they do have some players drafted. But unfortunately they just haven't been able to coach him. So I think part of it is probably just the first round to. Right. Is right. SEC had nine ACC seven big ten seven, and then big twelve three, which might be like, all, Oklahoma, dudes and then. Pac twelve three I guess that's kind of the perception. Don't you feel like in college football? Now that the ACC and big ten are kind of at a at a higher level than big twelve and Pac twelve cry me if you think I'm wrong, I guess I was the Oklahoma's excellent and Pac twelve has pretty good depth. I think a lot of that sometimes is based on US's kind of down, and so they don't have like the marquee out, west and then with the big twelve it feels like it's Oklahoma and I know Texas had a nice year, but feels like Oklahoma. And then who else I'm thinking that, that's part of the reason for this perception, as well? I agree and the perception with the SEC, and big ten being on top, I think is, is correct. I think the ACC is right now at least more Clemson based because really with Florida state down and really just not and Miami. Of course, there's not a lot of super talented teams outside of Clemson there with the other schools. The Pac twelve and big twelve I think what the reason that perception lives on is that they have fewer schools, especially the big twelve they've, they only have ten school. So if you just look at it from a rod number standpoint, it might look worse than it actually is. Yup. First round picks for the Pac twelve included. Andre dillard. Who got drafted by the eagles. Washington had a first round pick as well for the big twelve it was Oklahoma with Cuyler Murray, of course, as well as TCU, L J, Collier was kind of the surprise one. I guess, if you will the other guy, Hollywood Brown went in the first round, of course, Mississippi State, Mississippi State has back to back first round picks that I think is kind of like the difference. Sometimes Kayla mcgarry from Washington went Nikiel. Harry from Arizona state Wentz in the last two picks could have been real rough for the Pac twelve real rough. I don't think people were expecting those guys to be first round picks. And yet they went with the last two picks, I think that probably affects the conference as well. So. I don't know. I guess I think it is a good indicator, but I think your point's well taken that maybe the Pac twelve isn't as down as everybody thinks when you look at the total number of traffics and even you know, the same number of first round picks as the big twelve right? No. I completely agree with that. So I always liked talking about. And by the way, I think that there's a decent amount of talent coming in the Pac twelve up this upcoming year. When you think about Oregon, some of the kids, I think Oregon has several guys obviously led by Justin Herbert. So I think that they might have a pretty solid year upcoming both on the field and in next year's draft, I would imagine. Yeah. Oregon is very talented right now. And they're actually, they unlike previous years, they have some, some good talent on the defense and looking forward ahead and three four years. That's not going to stop, Oregon is recruiting at an unbelievable level. So I think. You're going to see most of the draft picks, most of the high end draft picks from the top from the pack twelve coming from Oregon attribute that to just crystal balls aggressiveness yet crystal ball. I mean he clearly puts an emphasis on recruiting, and of course he's learned under Nick Sabin. So I think he's trying to deliver that Alabama model to Oregon and so far, so good. It's they are going into L A and taking guys really wants. So. Yeah. I think it's just something that Cristobal emphasizes unbelievable, because they're getting kids all over the country. And it felt like I almost thought the Oregon uniform thing chip, Kelly, I almost thought that that was over. But it's like he's bringing it back. Bring it back that it's cool to be at Oregon again. Absolutely. And you thought Willie tagger that that was a great hire when they got him and he jumped up the recruiting even a little bit. And then when they hired Cristobal it kind of seemed at least to me seemed like a little bit of a boring higher just kind of. Promoting from within the guy that made the most sense, but I'm happy to say I think I've been dead wrong about that. What about some of the surprises in terms of individual players because I think that's a little bit different in terms of individual players that guys that maybe went higher than you thought or lower than you thought. Yeah, that's something that, especially as purely college football podcast. We're not too focused on how guys are going to translate into the NFL. Of course. Unlike unlike your podcast, here, the college draft podcast, but one of those guys well, the obvious one that went a lot higher than maybe a lot of college football fans would expect is Daniel Jones. He just wasn't really all that relevant in the college football world. But I always say, I'm, I'm not going to denigrate that pick too much because I'm talking to a guy who thought that Jimmy Clausen was going to be a great NFL quarterback. So I learned to temper. My scouting opinions another guy was was Josh Jacobs. He was going into last year way down the list of relevant college running backs and even during the season. Of course he was very good. But he was one of kind of a trio of running backs. They're at Alabama that, that got the bulk of the carries. So when draft time came around, and I saw that he was getting mocked, the first round that was definitely a big surprise as has the college football podcast podcast. Yeah. That's always. By talking to the college football guys to be like, who are these guys. It just totally surprised you or came out of nowhere. And you didn't. I mean obviously people don't talk about Duke football that much as it is. But you really just did not think highly or do not really think that Daniel Jones, like at what point did you ever think during the season Daniel Joan does a really good quarterback or really good quarterback prospect. I mean, I think we thought that he was pretty good just because there's of course, not a ton of talent at Duke, and he was producing pretty, well, it's not as if he was a bad quarterback in college. But I certainly never thought of him as a first round NFL draft pick because being a college football podcast purely we just we're looking at production and we're looking about how guys are producing at the college level without an eye towards physical, talent towards the NFL so that one certainly came out of nowhere for me. What about? And by the way, I mentioned this, you know. You know in fairness to him, I mean do hasn't had a single other guy drafted since two thousand fifteen. I mean, think about the I mean even NC state, seemingly has like five dudes drafted every year, you know what I mean Clemson obviously has a million, but then even the other schools you usually has several mean they're just they are at a major, major talent deficit. That's true. And I think that's something people underrate. They always talk about when players are getting drafted into the NFL how much the situation matters. And how much of an impact it has on, whether you're NFL career is a success or failure. But the same thing is true in college. I mean just look no further than Oklahoma. I think it's no coincidence, that the two Oklahoma quarterbacks the two quarterbacks that were in Lincoln Riley, one of the great offensive minds in his system with the offense of line. They had the unbelievable receivers. It's just a much easier system to have a lot of success, obviously. And you see Baker Mayfield. Encounter murray. Go go. Number one back to back. Yeah. That's, that's pretty incredible. And that's the point I made to, you know. Kyla Murray hit four off of Lyman both guards both tackles go in the first round of the draft like say, even their center. Creed Humphry was like the freshman all American Center, who like might be a high pick next year. They had Hollywood Brown goes in the first round his, his receiver and you can even speak his other receiver CD lambs really good, right? Absolutely no. They are absolutely stacked. I think you know, maybe I could put up like a fifty percent completion percentage as Oklahoma's quarterback, maybe I'm going to hi there. But, you know, I'd have a better shot there than Duke, and then even Ohio State. I mean he had a couple offensive lineman drafted it Haskins. His receivers went second and third round. I mean his backup running back drafted Mike Weber. It's like do can't get a guy drafted an Ohio State, forget it even the defensive guys. Stay has backups getting drafted even Oklahoma's running back missed the whole year. Traffic in the six hundred. I do not envy, the job of NFL scouts trying to separate out the impact of the other ten guys on the field from the player that you're evaluating that seems like a tall task, and the judge Jacobs point is interesting. Just because he's a very good player. I can see why people love them, but it is interesting that like he was kind of behind Damian Harris Damien here, and even split time with Najji Harris who I guess we'll be the main guy next year. It just they always have so many running backs that it's hard to ever think it's like Derrick Henry was second round pick. She's interesting thing that Jacobs went higher than Derrick Henry, who's a physical fee and average forty-seven carries per game last year, Alabama. It is crazy. And the other thing is that Josh Jacobs even going into Alabama. I believe he was a three star recruit. So he's not he's not a guy with the five star pedigree, like most of the other players on Allah. Obama. So that was that was definitely a surprise and you see Alabama running backs Wisconsin running backs. I think you're probably going to start to see it with Oklahoma quarterbacks. Those guys that are in situations that just seem tailor-made for for you to have success. It's going to be hard to evaluate whether it's for real or not. So. Let's get to some of the guys that you were surprised didn't go higher just based on being a college football connoisseur. Like you are, who did you think would go higher than they ended up going there. Yeah. There was a couple. Well, there was really a lot of guys. But the two that I kinda focused in on where Trayvon Williams from am. He was just unbelievably productive last year I think he had over to two thousand all purpose yards and yet he fell to the sixth round. So I know he's he's undersized. So I guess at least from a height perspective. So that's the reason he falls. But the talent just really seemed to be there and the other guy, maybe even more. Surprising was Sutton Smith from northern Illinois. Maybe the most productive player in all of college football, the last several years. Of course he was a defensive end. So he was always near the top of college football in terms of sacks and tackles for loss understandably it's in it's in a group of five conference, but still it was a big surprise for me to see 'em last until the sixth round. Yeah. And I think I think he got to buy the Steelers which is a real good fit for him. There's a there's a history of like MAC, guys and even FCS guys like if you can rush the passer, you can rush the passer. And there's a history of those guys going out there and showing that they could do it in the NFL level. It does seem to be a position where production translates more than a lot of other positions. Yeah. That's kind of how I look at it as well. Now I know you are in Nebraska fan. So. One more gently. Yeah. So I want to get your thoughts on Nebraska, having zero players drafted for the first time in fifty six years, believable, did we have to talk about this Ross? I really would rather not talk about it. But I'm glad you said that. So here's a question for you know in often Saturday. Do you care like you're, you're accountable fan? You're Nebraska fan. You obviously care about their recruiting you care about what their record is you care about how good they are. But I always think it's interesting because there are some fans that really care about how their team does from draft perspective and others that really couldn't care less. You know what I mean? Like I don't care. Three year. We were ten whatever I record was. That's all I care about. So tell me, so, evidently, you do care. Why do you care? Well, I kind of just kind of two sides of the coin, I guess, you could say I care because when you put a lot of players into the NFL draft high school prospects, take notice of that. I mean look no further than than Clemson right now. They're defensive line class. Of course was unbelievable. They had what three three defensive linemen go in the first round. And if you look at their twenty twenty recruiting class, they've already got the top three defensive tackles committed. So there's definitely a correlation right there. But if the reason I don't care is that you're right? I'm just focused on Nebraska, succeeding in college. I'm not too concerned with how guys do in the NFL. An ex actually could be a good thing to see because it just goes to show that there really was a failure by Mike Riley, of course the previous coach from a development standpoint. It's not as if the recruiting really fell off all that much. He was recruiting decently well for Nebraska. I think he was getting top twenty five top thirty classes. So Scott frost is going to continue that recruiting and even improve upon it. All he needs to do is to develop them, develop them like Paul, Chris does that Wisconsin Chris Peterson does it you'd up. So there is an opportunity there for frost. What about I was surprised there? One receiver didn't get drafted. Yeah. That was definitely a big surprise that you would have thought I think this similar thing happened last year with with Iowa State, who was a team that hadn't had several players several years without a player drafted, and Allen Lazard, who was super productive at the college football level. Ended up not getting drafted. So it's I I've stopped trying to predict these things, especially after my Jimmy Clausen miss. What's your Jimmy Clausen miss? Well. I was very confident that he was going to go to multiple pro bowls. I thought I thought he was going to be a great quarterback. And I was clearly very wrong on that. That's funny, man. That's really funny. He was a good college quarterback. No. You thought when he went to the NFL that he was going to be a great the NFL. Yeah. Yeah. So far be it for me to complain about Stanley Morgan, not getting drafted what about Nebraska having the pipeline coming up there? They are recruiting decently. Well, I think there last class was about twentieth. So I think you're going to start to see Scott frost churning out some players to the NFL, especially the way he develops. You look what he did at UCF taken, oh, and twelve team and leading them to twelve and within a couple of years. So you're going to start seeing some players from Nebraska get drafted. What about coaching because I mean you look at this situation you mentioned Wisconsin. And it's like if you're no linemen, go to Wisconsin, Iowa. I guess if you're a tight end go to Iowa. There really is something I guess, if you're running back to Penn State after saquon Barkley, and miles Sanders, it does. I don't know how much it's recruiting how much coaching, but it certainly seems like I mean Lincoln Riley back toback Heisman winner, number one overall picks. You can me you had that, that has to be a lot of coaching going on there and a lot of talent around you. And I think another good example. Really the perfect example of how much coaching and situation affects where you get drafted is Gardner. Menchu. He of course at East Carolina was on nobody's radar as far as getting picked the NFL draft. And he was this close to grad transferring to Alabama and he was just going to be content to sit by hind. Jalen hurts and to a tongue of a lower there and start his coaching career. Presumably, but Mike Leach comes in at the last minute gives them a chance. And you saw what happened in that, Mike Leach offense? It's easy to have success and credits. Garment shoe, he took full advantage of it. But had he not transferred to Washington state. Most of the listeners to this podcast would never have heard of him. Yeah. That's a pretty good point. I would say a really good point. It's crazy Lincoln. I mean, if you're a quarterback Lincoln Riley is a particular guy to go to Mike. Leach is a pretty good guy to go to it used to seem seem to like people would hold it against you the Leech thing now I think that that's kind of going away a little bit, too. You know where it's not like oh, yeah, but he's doing it in the air raid, blah, blah, blah. I think that's changing a little bit last question for you Michael, and it's just kinda hit on an earlier. But really the biggest issue with like Nebraska, not having anybody drafted or things like that. It really is. Just I feel like with every passing year, the impact that the draft has on recruiting is increased, like, I'll give you an example. I think there's a chance at the number one wide receiver in the country. Who's from near where I live in Pennsylvania. Their reports seem to indicate he's going to go to Ohio State instead of Penn State, and I think that's because Penn State doesn't really have very many receivers drafted. And I think it was like nine receivers draft like the last three or four years. I think that's a big factor. Yeah. I think more and more high school players are willing to go farther to go to the right place, as long as it's going to get them into the draft. You look right now Clemson just got a commitment from quarterback, one of the top quarterback prospects and he's from California, but he's going he's going across the country because he's sees what's happening with Trevor Lawrence right now. And he sees the opportunity that once Trevor Lawrence inevitably after his junior season goes pro and probably goes number one that he can be the next guy there to just slot into that quarterback position. So, yeah, I think you are seeing players, more and more. I mean it's not necessarily a new phenomenon but I think it's, it's increasing their choosing the school that's going to get them into the NFL. Michael, really appreciate this time. This was fun. Keep up the great work on the college football broS podcast really happy to have you guys aboard, and I like getting into college football perspective on the draft, especially like after a few weeks when when the dust settles a little bit. Thanks so much. Now, thanks so much for having me Ross. And I can't can't wait to tell my, my co-host Ryan and trae that you chose to have on the podcast based on who you thought the best podcast or was. So I'll be sure to them. Who was brother best looking ever. Thanks a lot Russ. Thanks. Really hope you guys check out that podcast. Michael's an awesome guy. And especially when he's on with his two brothers. It is really fun to listen to, and I love college football. So it's nice for me to have a college football podcast to listen to it is the college football broS podcast at C F, B broS last thing I need to tell you before we move on and get ready for the fantasy feast with Evans Silva, which will be posted later today, very important that you go to bed online dot AG, if you like to wager on things like the NBA like NHL, or we still have one more triple crown race. There's some good fights coming up. It's better online dot AG promo code podcast. One heck you can start betting on college football. And as we're going to talk about on the even money podcast tomorrow. Some of these places. CGT technology, they have their entire. They have a line, the lines up for every game the whole year. So you'll hear from on the even money podcast tomorrow. Exactly how he's going to go about betting on those, it's bed. Online dot AG. It's promo code podcast. Once you get fifty percent. Welcome bonus other than that, the cake is kicked. We are all tapped out. 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The QB Factory #7: Year 3 Breakout Candidates + The Gang Takes Some Ls

Bleeding Green Nation

36:16 min | 5 months ago

The QB Factory #7: Year 3 Breakout Candidates + The Gang Takes Some Ls

"Hey there podcast pals I'm John Stolnis the host of the Phillies pod hidden season, one of the shows that make up the good fight podcast family from espy nation. Look the baseball season is one hundred and sixty two games long, and there's no way you can watch all those games, so make sure to check out my podcast twice a week for all the fills goodness, you could ever want and make sure to check out our other podcasts including the award winning dirty inning with Justin, clue and Trevor strunk and continued success, with Justin and rozier subscribe on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP. You are inside the QB. Factory magical development dust make dreams come true I. Am your host Michael? Kissed? This salt brought to you by espionage and bleeding, green nation, and joining me as always to talk quarterbacks around the world. Scooby one in our hearts, and our minds is marco. `Field Mark Episode Seven of the QB factory. I episode seven man is a big day. It's a big day. I'm doing well, buddy. How are you? I'm doing fantastic I. I am blessed right now like there's not much to get excited about, but we're. We're going to be talking about today. We'll get into it on just on buzz. I woke up with it. Pep In my step, everything book. Quicker than usual. I mean usually especially this current era the a little bit late morning early afternoon most days, but this was A. Thirty year ready. Are you. Ready Be. That you're. Skipping a little bit on the historical reference today because we got a lot to cover, I do just want to give a quick little plug I'm currently reading Vicksburg grants campaign broke the confederacy by Donald L Miller. is a really sort of fascinated book that gives insight into what grant was doing tactically at the start of the civil war, and he was kind of wondered into into some victories early which I think. Might sort of give us an opportunity to quickly transition to what you're so excited to get to today by. Yeah, we're GONNA talk about some qb wins, and how some of the Ma don't matter. Because today we're going to be discussing third year quarterbacks and their chances of breaking out, and we might as well do these before we had done this second year breakout candidates that was a few episodes ago before can before the mahomes episode and all that so let's do this in the order they were. Were selected and that order is Baker Mayfield first-overall Sam darnold third, overall Josh Allen seventh overall. We can't even talk. Some Josh Rosen overall think he's got a chance to break out. We might have to eat some ells on that. Yeah, and then Lamar Jackson thirty second overall, and there's a bunch of backups that really don't matter and honestly Lamar Jackson is a wide receiver that doesn't have a chance of breaking out, so we're probably skip him, so we can get to Josh Allen Quicker, because boy. I can't believe I'm fortunate enough to get paid to talk about him. I am truly blessed, but again starting with Baker Mayfield Cleveland browns promising rookie year that caused some real hype among the browns fans, which was only bullied by the additions they made on offense last off season. They were one of the teams that I know I. Wasn't I think you were two very excited to see yet? Freddie Kitchens, looking great running the offense at the end of two. Two thousand eighteen, you add todd monk in who outclassed Dirk Koetter in Tampa Bay, and from moment one of the season. You knew there was trouble because of that forty three to thirteen drubbing that they took from the Tennessee titans to open their season, there were issues with the coaching staff with kitchens, reportedly pudding game plans in the shredder and going rogue on game days, which is definitely not conducive to success. That doesn't fully excuse Baker from what was A. A poor season where his weaknesses were highlighted in, he saw a drop in a ton of major statistical categories, completion percentage was down per points touchdown percentage down appoint a half interception percentage up appoint yards per attempt down a half yard, adjusted net yards per attempt. That's what I like down a yard and a half sack percentage up over two points, and the quarterback rating drops from ninety three point seven to seventy eight point eight bark. We were both hype. Hype for Baker coming into the two thousand nineteen season and boy did it go south in magnificent fashion. Are We doubling down in two thousand twenty, or we kinda cautiously waiting or we abandoning ship? What are we doing here I'm going to double down schematically and we can get to that in a moment, but I think though when you put the blurb, the posts at Bgn for this podcast, you should probably have to title at the gang. Take some else. Because you mentioned Josh Rosen there was my qb one now we're talking Baker Mike To. The Gates take. It smells today this is this is not a show that that that we're GonNa put the Scofield Hall of fame. The thing that troubles me about Baker last year, and it's something that if you studied them at Oklahoma. You probably saw this common the insistence upon creating chaos. When there's none to be found right, it's so troubling. There were so many occasions last year when he. He would just like bail from clean pockets because more comfortable as a quarterback trying to create in chaos, trying to do the scrambled trail stuff trying to move around and make throws on the move, and you can almost understand why he might want to do that. Because let's talk about his numbers. When kept clean in the pocket? Okay, we're talking about touchdown to interception ratio of sixteen to fifty. Which is horrific team picks when clean in the pocket you're talking about an adjusted completion percentage of seventy two point seven, which sounds good until you realize it is dead, elast last among qualified quarterbacks defined CORTEX, who had a fifty percent of their team's drawbacks. Those are horrific numbers. When you're clean in the pocket, you should be able to slice defenses off. Yeah, but he can't. He struggled with that, so that's a massive red flag and it might lead to why he wants to get out of the pocket because he's not comfortable. They're the reason why I'm going to double down and you know it's like scrubs Gif. Continue to dig in grave from season one Kevin's defence, he could save him. Kevin's Defence Geek could make him a functional quarterback as he did with Kirk cousins, you know that wide zone outside zone booed action stuff Kevin Baker on the move and a lot of heavy play, actually because the one area where Baker was actually good, last year was using player option. He had the biggest difference in the league on his completion percentage when moving from traditional drawbacks to play action grows, and you just completion percentage jumped ten point one percent when they used play action, his yards per attempt jumped two point six, one moving from non you know, play action to play option. Option that increase in completion percentage was the biggest in the league, and that jump in yards per attempt was third biggest in the league, and so when you're talking about getting him, worries comfortable using more play action. Sta Fancies offense. The added Austin, Hooper. They drafted Harrison Brian. Nwachukwu looks like he wants, but they're going to be a Lotta. Twelve personnel with Bryant with Austin Hooper Odell Landry Chubb haunt like there are still weapons. They might have figured out the offensive line with the movies they made their. I mean they added. Kach drafted a left tackle. I'm going to double down on. On this and I'm probably going to be sitting here this time next year. If we Fateh season regretted what I've said the past five minutes, but I'm going to double down. Will you mention making him comfortable? Doing doing was what's good for him? I remember in two thousand eighteen. He was one of the quarterbacks were started his launch points, and where he liked to scramble, and he had one of the stronger signals that I've seen doing this in terms of wanting to bail to his right, and that was very strive for instance while week thirteen against Houston. I had him for eleven. Eleven scrambles and all, but one were to his right when he bails. He wants to bail to his right. He's comfortable moving to his right in throwing that way when you see that, that's part of why he's comfortable with play action if you get him moving to his right on the move without him, having to break the pocket, you're already kind of setting him up to where he wants to be right. Yeah, that's exactly right like we've talked so often on this show you and I and others have tried to make the case that coaches need to play to their player strength. Bakers like he wants to be on the move. He wants to be a role in particular. do is write a low. He does a good job moving out roll into his left and thrown. He's moving to his left as well, but if this is where he wants to be like it now it's like when I made the case last year. That Mitchell trubisky should be a win. T quarterback like if that's what he's going to be I just play to that strength. Play it up, so yeah I mean. That's why I'm optimistic. Baker, because I think too fancy is going to be that kind of coach that he needs. needs to sort of Taylor. The Game Plan Taylor. The road designs the concepts the script all of it to what he wants to do now you could. Conversely that might make them easy to defend well. Maybe but the Vikings made the playoffs last year, right? The Vikings offense was very good at times, and when you're talking about a lot of outside zone wide zone stuff you know I know running backs don't matter, but like Chubb is one of the game's best running backs. Yeah, haunt is a tremendous second back for them, and they did a lot to back stuff with the two guys in the backfield was stresses defense. If you have sort of a a twenty two personnel package, but the two backs hunt and shove like. How do you defend that? Go dime. Do you go based you Nichole like it forces you to tough decision so I think there's potential here for this offense, but like you said we were both in to certain degrees on Cleveland last summer. We thought look. This is going to be great. You know kitchens had him playing well now. You had dealt mixed with the off season. Champs you printed the off. Season Championship banner lend. Itself fast. It's hard to bet on the browns in any very. Very hard. Yeah, even the point that you make know I'm cautiously optimistic I still WANNA see Baker work within the the structure of offense, and had those moments of chaos where he could create, which is a plus for him, but also stick to the script. You know more often than he has recently so I kind of with you there. Let's talk about another team that is just failed or quarterback mark. I was I was pretty hesitant to buy Sam Darnold as a starting NFO quarterback coming into the draft, but you look at what he did coming back from injury in his rookie season. Season we talked about it at the time you saw the flashes as if the light bulb had started to flicker on, but two thousand nineteen, despite being better statistically on the whole, it just seems like he never got to get on a roll in whether it was the kissing disease or the disease of Adam gase dwell loggins. There wasn't like a big stretch of play, and maybe that's a lie, because I thought he played well for the three game stretch from ten to twelve of the jets, put up three games straight of thirty four points, but even then right after that you only. Only put up six points against the Bengals, and just a really poor outing from darnold did not one, so this season was lacking for Darnold, than I was cautiously optimistic about him at the time, but ultimately and I talked about this with Sigmund Blue Mona on the time line in the off season when I said that I was optimistic about him. He asked me he's like. How much do you expect that that glimmer of optimism to blossom under Adam gays and the only answer I have to that coming into twenty twenty as well as well. You Hope Gaze doesn't ruin 'em this year. Year and maybe twenty twenty one is the year, but like as each year passes that hope fades that window closes, and just keeping with the topic of the show. I have no reason to believe that darnold his good enough to overcome. What is a very bad situation in my opinion? Yeah, it's a bad situation. It's tough because I can see scenario where this year he has a potential breakout year. You'll be just what they've managed to put a round that in a second you mentioned that we ten eleven twelve stretch where they scored thirty four game giants Washington Oakland Bright Bright. He wasn't exactly doing against you know the Patriots. Chief since some of the better defenses in the League, the Bills Yup those were three pretty bad defenses from last year I think I think all three were in the bottom five in defense of Devi away. So sort of expect them to do things like that, but the struggle against the bengals. I mean he had some up and down. Moments I I think a lot of it which is why I'm I. won't even go as far as as cautiously optimistic. I I would say more darnold this season. I could see a path where it works Christopher in there tied at. Was Out pretty much all of last year down and. Yeah and if you go back to his rookie to Donald Rookie season, he inherited seemed to have like a very great relationship on the field. Like when you need it a throw in the red zone. You need a thirty seven completion. He'd be able to go to him I think the loss of Herndon certainly impacted darnold last year at if you look at what they've sort of put together around him, you know I think Jamison! crowder is sort of that prototypical slot receiver while not somebody who want to build an offense around suddenly fills. Fills a role. I think acquisition. Bouchard Perryman will not one of the game's best receivers can fill role on is probably as there's Z, and then you had Denzel Men's. Who again maybe wasn't the best all around receiver in this past draft class could be that type guy. There's your eleven you know with her. Did in those three guys Levy on? Bell said what you WANNA. Bunch still an effective running back if they've figured out the offensive line. Yeah, that's the might have something that you're right. That's the big thing because George fans really. Thousand Season Move Karma covered. We could bet on MCI. Becton but the guy does need to work. He's a massive human being. It looks to be a tremendous athlete at Duke. Please don't pull the escalate over. Yell at us when you hear this podcast I have I believe in baton, but he's a rookie tackle when we're not getting rookie minicamp, not as like, and then there's the atom gays fact, and it looks like from darnold that he almost seemed better throwing downfield than anything else like you seems will. He's got that sort of gunslinger mentality number one. Yeah, now. The numbers weren't great. You know adjusting completion percentage of thirty three point three. You know which was twenty second. Just edging out the Allen Brothers Josh. Kyle, so it wasn't great, but it seems like he's got that potential to which Adam Gates is certainly not go into unleashing their offense because we know wants to. He wants it to be a horizontal attack. So can figure out. The offensive line will hurt to be healthy. WILL GAYS BE GAYS or not? Like? They've got questions? I could see a path, but it's a narrow. It's like an inside straight situation. If you're looking at darnold game just from a technical standpoint, what something you think he can clean up. Raking can help himself to maybe overcome those obstacles. He's had shoes years that were beset by injuries right because he had the food injuries rookie season. Last year obviously had the model situation ahead. So I think he needs to be on the field full sixteen games because the main thing is that sort of processing speed. Got Decision, making the ability to re defenses at I, think the. The time that he missed. The two years had an impact on that so I think that's one thing that he certainly needs to work on coming out of the draft. Look, everybody thought that any. We need to work on wars mechanics, right the dip the loop and all that stuff. He's cleaned that up and it was an issue for him at at at. At at se I think he's cleaned that up. I think he's got better. The balls got out on time and in rhythm more of, but it's the processing speed. which I think is a huge issue for something to look forward Sam Darnold when we come into the two thousand twenty season up next. We're GONNA get to some You know who he is. Dead. Of You right back here on the factory. Baseball truly. It is awful. Phillies writer Justin Clue. Join me every week along with John Stolnis. Liz Rozier, and Dr Trevor Strunk as we discussed all the ways. The phillies have hurt us on our podcast hitting season as well as historical anecdotes and Rar, emotional ramblings on our other shows, continued success and the dirty inning subscribe to the good fight, and you'll get conversations with insiders analysis of breaking news and stats stats stats together. We'll survive. Whatever baseball can throw at us. And we are back. You're on episode. Seven of the factory espy nation, bleeding urination, bringing it to yeah of course Michael Kissed here with Mark Scofield qb, one in our hearts, and our minds, so let let's get to the third quarterback as we talk about these third year breakout candidates so we will get right to it. I'm known as a bit of Josh. Island. Hater. Let me address that of the three quarterbacks that we've talked about here. Baker, Darnold and now Allan Allan has the most raw talent the highest ceiling. The best physical gifts. He's a big dude. He can move. He's a threat is a runner. He's got an Howitzer for an arm. Not only that he is utterly fearless, which sometimes leads to good result, sometimes bad, but it is always fine, and I won't say this about Patrick, mahomes when he was coming out and I think the same is true of Josh Allen. You better hope. He is good because the NFL will be so much more fun to watch if he is good so like if you think I want him to fail just like in Dunk. Dunk on bills Mafia all day on twitter. You're probably partially right, but I don't take myself seriously enough to the point where I would say hey, you would suck Josh Allen Run. Rally, Madman slain harpoons for four hundred yards and four touchdowns that sounds like a smashing good tied to me. Man and part of me wishes that were the reality because the bills would be unbelievably good if he were that guy and taking the bills as a whole is important, because whereas the jets and the browns have categorically failed their quarterbacks, the bills have done the opposite. Opposite I am a big time. Brandon beane believer the GM there I see his vision for the long term rebuild from the moment. He stepped on the scene trading. Guys like Sammy. Watkins Reggie Ragland Marcell Dareus, and so on signing quality free agency out affordable deals, drafting really really well and Sean McDermott had big handed of that is as well so give credits him for guys like jv White, one of the best corners in the league that might prove to be the best in two thousand twenty two maidens, the linebacker who was on the verge of elite. Elite status, super, young and Oliver the hauling of the safety position with like a quality veteran like Mike hide identifying and developing Jordan Poi- Former Eagle by the way, and then you get Stefan digs in this off season to give your offense a true wide receiver one. I cannot say enough about the rebuild there. There is an extremely talented roster and buffalo that has been completely remade. It is damn impressive. Brandon beane already is showing that he could be a top ten. GM Sean. Mcdermott in my opinion is the top ten head coach. So, what's the problem? Why is the team that talented from top down from the front office to the coaches to the players, not a serious playoff contender last year when you have a second ranked points per game defense. Why were they cupcake schedule and a relatively healthy team? Could the bills only eke out a ten six record and a one and done wildcard playoff? Where they scored nineteen points including overtime against the worst defense in the playoffs in the taxes. It's not the offensive coordinator folks because Brian Cabell. Another darn fine coach on the staff did a darn five job with what he had to work with. So I'll ask again. What's the problem? It's the cornerbacks stupid I. Follow a good amount of bills, beats and media personalities on twitter and see what they go through on a weekly basis, and by the way those media personalities talk much differently about Josh Allen in the DMZ than they do on the time line. Probably because they're scared of their own each week at half, everybody in the fan base is trying to play the blame game, and sometimes in moments of rage filled clarity. They get it right. But most of the time it's pointing the finger everywhere except where it belongs. The offense isn't good because Josh. Allen isn't good. Bills Fans, even if you have hope for twenty twenty that it'll get better except that reality. Accept the reality that Josh Allens quote unquote improvement took him from worse to the worst in almost every major statistical quarterback category except the reality that when you respond to a clip that I, put up, you say all what you could make a cherry pick highlight video of every quarterback missing de passes that what you're missing is the fact that no starter in the league misses many deep balls Josh Allen. Until that changes until Allen can connect deep at even a mediocre rate. This offense won't be good. Until then you're making the same excuses for him. That bears fans made for Mitch. trubisky sloppy match that Jaguars fans made for Blake Bortles that Bengals fans made for Andy Dalton. It's qb wins right. Named one win that mattered in two thousand nineteen. Bills. Fans accept the reality that you don't hate me because I'm not a Josh. Allen defender you hate me because I was one hundred percent right, and said the things out loud that you feared in the quiet and dark recesses of your mind that you wouldn't dare just like those beat writers admit publicly. It was true when I said it on October, seven, two, thousand, nineteen. It was true on January, Fourth, two thousand twenty. The bills were paper tiger. Until Josh, Allen can prove that he is just a decent quarterback. The bills still are a paper tiger, and it's Josh Allens fault. Mark! Breakout candidate. What do you think? I could tell why you you're ready to go this. I could tell I. Don't really have anything to add like. There's nothing rod like there is absolutely not a single thing wrong with what you just said like. It's completely spot on correct, absolutely one hundred percent. There's other I think if you are a member of bills Mafia. You were Clinton to. The Stefan digs acquisition right now and just below average deep ball execution, right? That's because you could get that with this defense, and what may be doubt year for the Patriots, although maybe not with Cam Newton? That can potentially would you this division? because. We're not saying Josh Allen has to become the best deep ball passer game for this offense to click. She just has to be below average I dead last out of the League. A adjusted completion percentage downfield dead last. And the thing that's so worrisome about that. Is that if you look at what Brian Cabell is done to start a pretty good job with like turning them into timing and rhythm, pro, or like getting out on time, his vision that's never in a million years. What anybody would have thought Allen would be enter in his third season and what he has to be this way. You're limited to the point where you've got to make them that. Because otherwise you've got nothing. You're betting on digs and Allen rediscovering what he was at Wyoming the made him the seventh overall Selassie, which is a guy that can throw the ball with downfield right? The question becomes though. In an effort to recapture that does he regrets in the other areas if he does like what are you willing to live with? As it has as bills, offensive coordinator, like what Josh Allen Are you willing to live with and maybe Josh. Allen. We saw last year will be enough to get the back to the playoffs and maybe WOULDA playoff game, but I'm not sure. Edge so you need some improvement and I don't know if it's going to get there, but like you said Josh Allen is fun. Josh Allen and scrambled drills throwing wheel routes to a double covered full band. A playoff game is fine. And we want to see more Josh Allen I I enjoy watching him play, but I think need to be a little bit honest about where he is quarterback. Yeah, it could work but I just don't know and out of all of these guys like play the full sixteen slate game slate last year. Like got enough experience on Durham at this point, we should have pretty good idea where he is. Where do you see him? From a mental processing standpoint sub remember I recently went, went back and watch the eagles game in a couple of their games from Alan and I. Felt like. Maybe I'd missed it during the season, but there were more misreads that I remembered watching initially. Is He still having? Having problems like grasping the obvious open stuff because of post nap processing as a pre processing. Where does he really struggle in that area? In the fact, his arm is a double edged sort of a crutch in that he has to this day. Still has the ability where he can use an extra half second to make reads because his arm will make up that time it'll get their problem is when you rely on it to that effect, it becomes less of benefit more of a detriment more of a problem in your development. You know that's why debacles ability to make him a time. Rhythm passer has been impressive because you know if you watch him this dates back to Wyoming through present day. Day like there are still times when he's like. Try to give it that extra second to make sure he's seen what he thinks he's seeing and let then the ball comes out at. It might still get their close to on time, but it's the mental development that is growing as a result of it like you need to get the ball out faster. You need to read the sentence. Decipher these coverages faster, and if you're continually taking your time doing it because you think the arms gonna bail you out, domino's aren't always going to be there. Look at some of the guys that have played too late in their careers. You know when the talent starts to fade a little bit like Brady and And brees and others mannion the mind being sharps with saves them. Yeah, you know I it, so Allen's going to need that, and that's certainly something I'll be watching this year with him. And you think timing and rhythm passard you would think over sixty percent completion percentage by the still wasn't able to even hit that last year. Part of that's because of the inaccuracies with the deep ball, but still you just you don't WanNa see more accuracy on a on a consistent basis from him as well you want to see him. Take sacks at a at a lower level and someone that's on the offensive line, but a lot of that's on him to Saxon or quite often a quarterback stat so. Interesting with Alan if he breaks out, you're three I'm GONNA get so much crap, but honestly he's got for me so far to go and to see a deep ball. Just you know completely revamped I don't know how often we've ever seen that in so weird because people have told me to try to confirm your pre-draft bias, you wouldn't know that I was low on Josh Allen less. I told you myself. And what's interesting is two years before he came out I was on the Josh. Allen Train I was like look at this. This young exciting guy from Wyoming I was staying up to watch his game specifically, because he was so exciting, you could sell the tools were there, but he's never really evolved as a quarterback in yes last year he took small steps, but outside of that like I I mean. What can you really hang your hat on and say this is what makes him a successful start in the NFL. The there's there's nothing there for me to grab onto and I hate that line of criticism all right just like you just WanNa. Be Right. Nobody cares if I'm right. If I get a quarterback evaluation, right I get a bonus. I, I don't get like over bonus. Check for Roger Goodell like Oh. Good job on the Josh Allen. Like, we said last episode nothing. We say matters, absolutely nothing. Our job title is not general manager. That's not. That's not why we get paid so. Paid get right. We try to get it right right. Yes, but would it be right or not? Josh Allen goes out this year Woodson MVP and people Dunkel over us on the Tomba while okay, great good for him like don't be awesome to see I don't idol water like force narrative or like. Cherry pick clips that to prove a point right I don't need. You to prove point. I'm not keyon Fahey like you said. I mean like Ghia Fahey who by the way had Mason Rudolph who was in this class? As the best quarterback prospect in the class in noted insider best quarterback prospect since Mario correct. Yeah, we got. We got one more quarterback to hit and again the game takes smells sagana gazelles. That's this episode we accept it. We get it wrong. Josh Rosen the time rock hip for their Zona cardinals is it? Where is he? Is He still on any? He's a okay, so we still have Miami that's. About this gets drafted by Arizona. Turnaround a draft Kawamori gets. To Miami they turn out to. What's going to happen? Next is gonNA. Get traded to Washington. They're going to turn around a draft. Trevor Lords I. It's just it's just a mess, and this is my qb one. This was my quarterback on this class, and for myself and many others had them, or at least the others had Rosen qb one a lot of what we put it on was he looks like the quintessential pro maddened Brady smart Guy Smart from the pocket. Pro Ready reads concepts extremely well, read Joe. He's not an Uber Athlete, but can move around well. Enough in the pocket and Rosen is such a perfect example of the fact that we get five percent of the information at best because everybody that had rosen high had on the basis of his mental accurate Klay. This position and we find out this past summer that he didn't know how to identify the Mike Linebacker. Because he never had to do it, and so when people want to criticize those of us that do this about all. You GotTa Ron. Whenever remember we're doing this? With five percent of the information available those of us that thought Rosen knew what he was doing. We didn't know that he was never asked to identify the Mike Linebacker witted. No, he never asked to do anything. From what protection standpoint. We didn't know that he was bill so limited with what he was asked to do right now. That information available to us the Arizona Cardinals did and they drafted a knife. The teens have all this influence. They still get it wrong. And those temporal that he went had overall. She still gets the the gag takes the else. We're GONNA. Be Right about Josh Allen, and that's all it matters I am dug in, and my mind will not change. Anything else what we should do at that flag on that Hill Yup never move an inch. Die Doesn't matter. Die On that Hill your one quarterback take defined you as a person as. A as a May, ask the father. You don't wait. Let you see that first. Nice! Throw from some college sophomore. You plant that flag then. To move a right there. I will say first time I watched a Shawn Watson live during a game. I tweeted out like Halloween. His Sophomore, season or something like that? Does Shawn Watson no matter what Yep so, I will dial that hill. Sometimes you can see it right away with these quarterbacks right away. July trae lance tweets to delete. Do you know I actually use funny Matt Waldman and I did a tray ledge show on the RSP film breakdown and I had forgotten lead. You probably remember this because I said at the dams like the Monday after the draft I had to two. Trevor Lords. Justed fields and trey leads on the time by the take sorority fly. That was driving me nuts so i. I was bugging matted like. Did you tweet out the article yet? Did you tweet out the video? It's like yeah. I've done a bunch of times. It was because he had trae leads. I doubt muted. That's what they're. Yeah nothing nothing more annoying than twenty twenty. One quarterback takes when it's way too early for him, so metal more noise than what you're doing for a living. Yeah, exactly job, annoyed Sam! How won't take a flying said? Oh, that's right. That's the Detroit. North Carolina giant Kelly's out there like planted the flag like actually I'll put it this way. Twenty twenty one quarterback takes her fine were sitting at the class and whatnot. The freshman quarterback takes becoming into software. Those are the most annoying ones because as often happens all the time. We these quarterbacks. We hype up the next shiny new thing to such a point that we are then stuck on that hill and. And have a hard time coming down in light of new evidence as we get a larger sample in which to work and see some of their flaws exposed, and but we're just we're up on the Hilbert, and and were there, and that's where people stock. That's where people screw themselves. In my opinion, I guess Josh Allen I loved them, and then I didn't love him. It's totally car and to change. The, other thing here's the other thing is what I always try to tell the younger generation. Don't tweet the takes. You hide, the takes in a podcast or an article disagree. No disagree on all the hate. I would rate it. You hide the takes because you. Compromise you hide, the early takes the other. Yup, because it's not, it's not important being I like people puts a coherence. Nobody's first anymore, right? Like maybe like five years ago like this, this is a perfect way to describe it. The Carson wentz summer like the true G. The true degenerates like myself and I remember that summer was being. It was charged with Donald. There was Derek Clawson. Who talked about once like? Yeah, there's something here with this kit. And I remembered. Nobody talked about him until I think it was Daniel. Jeremiah like the day before his season opener, saying hey, this car tied. You know it's the only game tomorrow. Not Kota State Montana you might WanNa. Tune in this guy can throw a pretty good ball. That was it all summer for Mike. National Media this summer. The draft ends and Melkite trae Lances, Shit, like the night, the draft ends. Ends there's no more be I like being I is over. It's done okay, so just try to be right with five percent of the information you get except that. You're going to be wrong and drown your sorrows, Arby's beef and Cheddar. That's correct, e, Arby's baby. That's what we're doing all. That's left now now that the now that I'm you know crashing from the dopamine high of a talking about Josh Allen. I'm already starting to hate life again. So that's going to do it for the QB factory mark any last words for the gentle listeners before we get out of here I, think that was a pretty good closer though Arby's. Hey, there podcast pals I'm. John Stolnis the host of the Phillies pod hidden season, one of the shows that make up the good fight podcast family from espy nation. Look the baseball season is one hundred and sixty two games long, and there's no way you can watch all those games, so make sure to check out my podcast twice a week. For all the fills goodness, you could ever want and make sure to check out our other great podcasts including the award winning dirty inning with Justin, clue and Trevor strunk and continued success with Justin and Liz Rozier. Subscribe on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP.

Josh Allen League Josh Kevin Baker Josh Rosen Sam darnold Phillies browns John Stolnis Justin Clue Donald L Miller. Mike Linebacker Dr Trevor Strunk twitter Michael Kissed NFL Patriots Tennessee titans darnold
The QB Scho Show #42: Figuring Out Wentz

Bleeding Green Nation

31:41 min | 1 year ago

The QB Scho Show #42: Figuring Out Wentz

"Hey there podcast pals. I'm John Stolnis. The host of the PHILLIES pod hidden season. One of the shows that make up the good fight podcast family from espy nation. Look the baseball. Season is one hundred in sixty two games long. And there's no way you can watch all those games so make sure to check out my podcast twice a week for all the fills goodness. You could ever want and make sure to check out our other podcast including the award winning dirty inning with Justin clue and Trevor strunk and continued success with Justin endless grocer sprout apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP. Welcome into the. QB SCO showed this is episode forty two brought to you by the bulk at SP nation and bleeding green nation. I am your host Michael Kissed. You can follow me on twitter at Michael Kissed and fell that's K.. I S. as always here to breakdown upcoming enemy quarterback and then also take a look back at the performance from the Eagles quarterback Carson Wentz quarterback number. One in my heart in my mind in my dreams is mark. Scofield follow him on twitter at mark. Scofield mark brother rough week man. How you doing I do while Michael Great Eight to be with you on this Thanksgiving installment of the cubes go show at a very happy Thanksgiving Eve to you and yours? That's right friends. Marriages are completely fine. But yes that is right gentlest and are we are recording this episode on Thanksgiving Eve one of the biggest bar nights of the year. Yes in fact you might even be listened this on your way home from the bars which while why but if you are please be sure to grab a lift an overhaul if you've been drinking and while you're right along grab that auks play some. QB Scotia forever forever. Wanted sure to be a crowd pleaser on the ride home now. Speak it of crowd pleasers Michael. It's time for our weekly historical given the season. I thought it'd be fit into revisit. The first Thanksgiving given when he on rag tag band of neighbors banded together facing a harsh winter ahead but to show their appreciation for others would help them. They were left alone to fend for themselves. This young a group of neighbors decided to throw a feast to give them. Thanks the leader of the group often maligned for decisions. He had made in the past turn to his trusted companion his right hand Ed. How ever with meager rations dispose on a lack of culinary vision? Our hero did what he could for the honored guests. He prepare corn or maize dish commonly cofre today as popcorn and a baked bread dish. We call toast. Unfortunately the guests did not find the meal to their likened and chaos ensued now genta listener. You probably have come to realize that. I'm not described. The first Thanksgiving at all but rather the plotline to a Charlie Brown thanksgiving which you can see on. ABC Thursday night which will be followed by. This is America. Charlie Lebron the mayflower voyagers. Now a Charlie Brown thanksgiving is perhaps the most well known and beloved cartoons Thanksgiving special much more popular Garfield Turkey Day which opens with the overweight orange. Cat devoured a plate of lasagna. Just passing out for twenty seven minutes so Michael The thanksgiving spirit. I want to open with these two questions first. What what is Michael Kissed Thankful for second what current? NFL quarterback would least like to share Thanksgiving dinner with okay so question number two is obviously obviously but you know. It's not the least though because I love watching Mitchell trubisky and who's he going up against David David Blau Blau Dave Blau who gave a fantastic speech at the big make ten days two summers ago I kid you not. I left before that though so I didn't see it in person but sounds like a great leader Fed tastic opponent so is it. Is it trubisky for you. Ah I mean I'm thankful for for being able to watch Mitchell trubisky. Because his dark says things may be in an and rock bottom and all that stuff as it may be for the eagles. There's always Mitch trubisky risky to watch. which which is fantastic? So thankful for Mitch. Trubisky obviously thankful for the family can't can't leave them out thankful for all these fun the gentle yes exactly. I have to say that thankful for all the fine folks at SP nation. The guys I work with added bleeding green nation. Of course bill G. Forever Reign Benjamin Select on Stolnis you of chorus guys. I I talked to every day so obviously thankful for all of the gentle listeners. All the support that they've that they've given US allowed us to do this and continue to do this to where it's just it's not another football website. PODCAST THAT'S A. That's a one in done so we appreciate you allowing us to stick around. And we're very thankful for that and Margai. I brought right my own historical reference to show you. How much thankful for you? So I'm coming with my own here and this is during my vacation I I read a lot of Roman history and just kind of decompressed took some time. I am often and got through a couple of books which was fantastic. So this is from Anthony. Everett's biography on CICERO quote from Everett. Here during his childhood and Youth Cicero had watched with horror as Rome said about dismantling itself if he had a mission as an adult it was to recall the republic to order the image that came to his mind when describing. Its constitution was of a musical concert so this is going to really please matt. Waldman who is is our friend. He's he's GonNa love this but this is. This is CICERO later in life. Quote just as in the music of harps and flutes or in the voices of singers a certain harmony of the different tones must be maintained tain so also a state made harmonious by agreement among dissimilar elements. This is brought about by a fair and reasonable blending of the upper middle and lower. We're classes just. As if they were musical tones what musicians call harmony and song as a concord in a state and at unquote and then Everett continues. It became hisself ordained duty to conduct the orchestra of all the classes and train it to play in tune again. This reminds me so much of the the eagles offense right now and and we'll get into the Weinstock because we're talking about the blending of different tone singers. All of this stuff has to work together and right now as an. I think you who agree with me as you go through the Eagles offensive film there is definitely not one singular problem and we can argue until we are blue in the face about which problem is the biggest we can put up twitter polls and whatnot none of this matters it is not a cure all for Carson Wentz to play better ball and he has two absolutely it's also not a cure all if the supporting cast cast gets better because whence has to play better there are a ton of instances and I'm going to cover this a with Benjamin Sollac in the film review show as well but there are a ton of instances with there are four different factors design quarterback protection and wide receiver player or the ball carrier there so many plays in this game that I watched from the seahawks were there are multiple instances a multiple factors failing at the same time. It's not just once is not just the design or coaching. It's it's not just the receivers if one doesn't fail the other fails and it's just. The offense looks broken right now but since the quarterback show I wanted to give you the floor to kind of explain how you felt about wants his poor performance in this game against the seahawks which makes it two in a row for him. And we're really starting to get concerned here in Philadelphia Philadelphia about this being a more permanent fixture of the offense with when struggling than it is something that's just an aberration and really with the supporting cast. It's hard to see that. Getting better or him getting help or being able to elevate to his game his game to a point where it's even going to matter so mark. What did you think about this game? Well I think you sort of summed it up been how there are four L.. went to every single. Play that at one time or another can be off whether it's the design of the play. The quarterback play the protection where the routes being run by the receivers. And it's it goes beyond that and you and I were talking about this last night on many plays you'll get just one of those you get like three or four of yeah. Yeah and if there's like a singular play I would point to to talk about the state of the eagles offense right now it's in the first quarter. It's a first and ten at the three twelve twelve mar and they come with little jet motion. It's a play action design. It's trying to take a shot played downfield with a mills design. We've got the post in a day and everything just just goes to crap because the guy in motion is trying to be an outlet in the right flatten. He falls down every single receivers covered at sort of a basic cover three match coverage at the seahawks but every receiver is covered. The right tackle gets bulldozed into winces. Lap the running back sanders releases into into the left flat. A little bit lake as he gets caught up in some traffic thanks to the pocket collapsed around once once tries to climb the pocket. But there's nowhere to go with the football and the guy that bulldoze the right tackle gets up and knocks the ball loose so every aspect. You just talked about from the design of this which it's a basic. It's basically ends up being the to receiver concept now to the protection which is awful because again the right tackle gets dumped into winces lab to be run. One Guy Falls down. I mean that's hard the play. What a guy falls down into the quarterback is what's statuesque pocket and he's got a check down but he's probably afraid to throw it because he had air mail the check down to the red zone? I mean it's just bad right now. It's all bad. It's a mass and we're GONNA talk about some design stuff. Some slant flat stuff but would that playwright. Derek literally wrote down. People know I'm an old dinosaur. Okay I take notes with pen and paper and I literally road on this play away just a mess. That's what it is now. It's a mess right now and you could say that part of it is due to look. They're playing with guys that are wide receiver. Fives are most rosters right now. They're stable super. Glue it together and that's okay and that might be why you have to run like slant flat thirteen times in a game but if Carson Wentz is going to be the guy that I and many others expected them to be He's got at least do something more. Yeah and he didn't do it against Seattle. I agree and there are a lot of cases in this game were one Wentz. Play was followed up by one whence good play was followed up by a bad place the play right before that I mean. They're trying it kind of get a similar thing. This is three fifty seven per game pass on I in ten I mean they run that deep dig and the and the streak and then on the outside side you have a deep out. Everything is covered up three men row. Combination is absolutely covered up whence sees it. The protection is okay. He scrambles and gets a first so even the design didn't scheme anybody the APP. Even though the receivers didn't get separation Wentz is able to make up for those deficiencies in scramble and make a good play the next play very similar situation whence compounds as those issues and makes it worse and there's also like earlier in the first quarter are suing me later in the in the first quarter at thirty five seconds left in the first quarter order. This is going to be the RPO yellow whence gives the fake. He flips zips to the backside. Here he's got erz coming over top of a hook zone. Defender was Shaquille Gil Griffin covering him at outside leverage. He fits this thing in a keyhole. A Beautiful Throw beautiful placement the very next play a and I had a ton of screen indicators here from the offensive line and so I don't think sanders was supposed to continue his path to the outside whence just misses him. I mean he's yeah he's what seven yards away from him and he just floods overtop and sanders gets a hand on the ball. That's a pretty much an catchable ball for sanders right there so so many plays where was up and down so many plays where it was. If it wasn't one thing it was another you know what I mean. What's interesting about this screed? You're talking about is it also gets us into some of the execution it from the office of line because it does look like sanders drifts. A bit and I know that that was a big focused discussion earlier this week. Wide receivers drifted on stuff. The line doesn't release release until after this ball is on the turf basically and so the timing of it is off as well if the time had syncs up at once hits this this play could go. I'll there's one linebacker position but if the limy get out in front of it. There's a chance that this could go. Kelsey is not able to release because of that one block happens. Then you've got some space and you got got basically Jitsu guys blocked out. Yeah that's sort of the play could go ahead. What was also interesting? I'll watch it once this week. You look at you know the first interception exception which is quarter to thirteen thirty one. Ed Sort of another shaw play. They're trying to take advantage seem route. They get mad coverage what they want. I I understand in a sense. The desire by wants to drill this in because Titan has got he's got sort sort of established he's got vertical leverage and a bit of inside leverage and so once thinks he can drill it in row. But this is one you probably want to take a little bit off and so to throw it over the top. Yeah and he made that mistake a little bit later because he has the cover to whole shot on the other interception and again he tries to drill it in. It's almost the same exact situation we've got like an under the trail defender and I can understand in a second while he might want to drill it in. But that's one of those stores that you have to take a little bit more off. Put It over the guy's head. The safety isn't going to get there right so so you don't especially this one you don't have to worry about safety in the middle of the field covered from the twelve down to the twenty in the time it's going to take the ball to get. It's just a situation taking a broader. Look at it right now where everything is wrong. It's quicksand. We talk about that so often. Where do what did you boil it down to? The quarterback is trying to do. Everything is is going against you. You're swimming against the tide. You're fighting that quick sandy to try to do everything as perfectly as possible. Finn throws you try to place the rose at lead you to miss it on check check downs miss it on screens enthroned interceptions when you've had opportunities to make big plays and you look at the way that some of these drives ended just just a sample of the nine straight drives not colluding including nine including the end of half one where they didn't have much time and that was kind of a forfeit bear by talking about the the the ward miscommunication and then in the in the second half when starts starts to get going and starts to get them rhythms five for seven on that drives something like fifty five yards or whatever it is and then they have that sprint. Draw that they've never run before there's execution issues because they're offensive line has just been in revamped coming out of the half because Andre Dillard commando playing right tackle so you have a fumble there and that gives some totally out of it. Then there's incompletion J. Jaw. That was that was on Wednesday. That was under. Throw some Some weird pocket movement there the God fumble where when the offense has a couple straight completions again the fourth and to which age all the much talked about fourth into Jj continues used adrift but whence was late with his is getting to the mashing. I put that breakdown up on twitter. It's just there's so many different things and broke this down it and you're talking about in these nine plays plays with drives ended. There is one two three four five different instances where it's a multiple factors that went wrong with their scheme quarterback protection and and then you know you combine execution separation ball carrier that right there so there's just so much wrong with this offense mark is it all about getting the supporting cast back. Ah That's what's needed. Or how do you fix this. What do you do as an offense? Is it running. Slant Flat Twenty Seven Consecutive Times that felt like the eagles did or who. What can they do while they? It's not running. Slant flat run run that twenty seven times because they did a word out either it was sort of a were limited. So we're going to do basic stuff or they. I guess saw something on tape from Seattle because they did run a lot and then there's not so many ways you can fool defects running. That didn't turn actually full the first play the game. They got fooled because once thought it was going to get zone coverage motion guy actually covered and man. And if you watch that play urges like begging for the ball because they fall blitz the safety trying to Roh tae down. If once she's an early you could have a big play but they missed on that as also it's a it's a one yard era throat. I mean it's a one yard throw to tight end. Who looked irks and goddard a good players? But they're not giving you huge Jack numbers and so unless you throw in fifteen to those derived arrive. You're not going to do too much of it. I can imagine what the EPA is on slant Flab and the problem. The Eagles are having to do this. Fifteen sixteen play drives. I mean you saw it against New England like there's no explosive development of this offense they can't give up anything. Open down the field when they do. And when they do have intermediate shots winces been pretty scattershot within the past couple weeks like just it's and I keep going back to it but it's it's so frustrating to watch this offense just completely fall apart like that now if you're two opposing defensive coordinator I mean what are you afraid. Nothing from this eagles off. It's like nothing like Seattle. Did they read a lot of like basic cover three in variations thereof. Didn't have to do anything exotic. They could spot drop a tie. And you're right and they they were doing spot. Drop country covered. Dari which confused the eagles and they couldn't scheme open against they were doing more cover to zones that also confused the eagles but also added another layer of an underneath the fender. Because they're not worried about beating being beat down the scene and not worrying about him being on the outside edge when there were opportunities at the C. Daughter pep they couldn't executing uh-huh night there were opportunities in this game that were in front of this offense but they couldn't execute them when they try to keep some of these deep shot. Stuff like that dagger concept you would just talk about. Where once that that eleven yard scramble to safety over the top of the vertical route and they've got underneath guys bracket in Diagram? There's there's nothing there for them right now and I think the war or could certain than for my perspective watching Wednes- is I'm starting to wonder about mechanic Joe because you look at that the Mr Sanders. I am not left flat that little. Check down overthrow down in the red zone. You look at his foot work and I don't throw this out just sort of you know get a spark or a rise out of you view but it was trubisky I he steps in the bucket. They're like you started to walk towards the sideline his left foot. Like what he's talking about here when we talk about trubisky and when he throws to the left which is not a media created narrative he oh it's legit. It's which is why earlier I would have said. Risk is the guy. I don't want to share Thanksgiving meal with of your family. The passes left like minus at. You're sitting to the left or trubisky no matter what you're not gonNA get anything we'll be able to pass it to you mashed potatoes going flying. So what what happens here is whence instead of stepping at his target swings that front foot way wide. His hips are parallel. All to the offensive. Line to the line of scrimmage here and that contributes to to to the mis-throw and like some people say all the wind gusts picked it up. Yeah it was windy man. It's a five of yard throw. Yeah I mean I don't know what you need to do. Change your arming over to the case. But it's it's it is sloppy bad mechanics. Mark with her a a lot of other instances where you were concerned about his mechanics other than say like pocket management which was has been iffy for the past couple of weeks or is that just one where you're like okay. I see that and I'm concerned it's going to start happening more more. It's more that that's the first instance where I saw his mechanics. Impact a throw and I've always been of the mind you know I started started saying this term Patrick Mahomes his draft process. That mechanics aren't a problem until their approach so there are a problem. That's exactly right like I don't care what it looks like. If the boss getting where should go what it needs to be their throat between your legs behind your back like look. I've Pat wrote answer that I've memorized point. But if if it gets to where it's supposed to be I don't care how it looks but if it doesn't get to work supposed to be in the mechanics are reason why then the canucks manner it's what we're seeing what you're bisky certainly really special endorsers love and this is the first time I saw him. Missing a throw as like mechanics. Played a role here. So it's more something to watch going forward that he's always had interesting. Upper body mechanics but lower body became have never really been an issue without so seeing that. I want to see if it's just a one off. If he either fell pressure and filthy at a sort of step step away from it which I really think it was the issue. Or if he just sort of had absorbed vapor-lock type of any final takeaways on winces this performance from this game moving forward before we get to break here. You know I think the main thing to realize is that some of the design elements porous wall. Where last week? I have praised. Doug Peterson says for like some of the things you did schematically at some of the information he was able to once pre snaps. I gotTa Kinda did a bit. This week Peterson because again it might have been the roster and the players available to him but you know for example. They've ran a bunch spot concept to the boundary. Read me to the field and I dug up literally. Two Thousand Sixteen coach of the Year Clinic Manual presentation from Butch Jones. Who no longer is is the head coach of the University of Tennessee? Talking about running bunch running spot for a bunch and he says we like right on the spot for bunch set into the boundary when when you run into the boundary the defense have a tendency to change their personnel and we can get advantage into the boundary. All we want from this place five yards. They run it on third erred in four. At some point I forget exactly where it is. But it's a third and four thousand five something like that and they run it to the field at discover and there's nothing else they can do on the backside. Either so Butch Jones of all people got it right there. It so gotta Dane Peterson. I think for are some of the stuff he was doing in this game. Obviously the slant flat stuff. I'll be beaten that horse to death. Yeah it wasn't great. It wasn't great all round. So that's GonNa do it for our talk on Wednesday his very very very encouraging. We hope you're having a fantastic give. Everybody thanksgiving Eve As you listen to this or if you're listening to this I on Thanksgiving with your family remember or that. Football is not everything that take take joy in life from from something other than sports. Because if you're looking for joins sports let me tell you if you're a Philadelphia fan and you're expecting affecting that might not be the way to approach life so we'll be back with more life advice here on the cubes go show baseball. Truly it is awful. I'm phillies writer. Justin clue will join me every week along with John. Stolnis Liz Rozier and Dr Trevor Strunk. As we discussed all the ways the phillies have hurt us on our podcast hidden season as well as historical the anecdotes and raw emotional ramblings on our other shows continued success and the dirty innings. Subscribe to the good fight. And you'll get conversations with insiders analysis of Breaking News News and stats stats stats together. We'll survive whatever baseball can throw at us. Hey Spencer Hall. I'm Holly Anderson. I'm Ryan Nanny. I'm Jason Kirk and we're the host of the shutdown full cast your avengers of college football podcast. It says in the script to riff on what that means and basically what I mean. Is this all already salute. Every Tuesday we talk about everything from cooking disasters to pro wrestling. Too unfashionable pants. We Warren Middle School. We also do talk about college. Football every now and then like mascot fights announcers fleeing the booth early. And unfashionable. Pants that coaches where now if you want to take college football exactly as seriously as it should be taken. Subscribe for free on Apple podcasts. or in your favorite podcast APP and we are back here on the. QB's go show episode. Forty two Michael Kissed here with Moscow. `field is of course brought about by book as nation bleeding green nation mark. So we we've dealt with Wentz. Let's take a look forward to This crazy Miami Dolphins team that that you know tanking whatever you WANNA call it like I legitimately 'cause I haven't been paying much attention to Miami other than the one game. Where like they were really hanging in there with the bills for about three and a half quarters and then you know there was some turnovers? Fitzpatrick threw an interception. But as you look at their starting quarterback Ryan Ryan Fitzpatrick who I confirmed. This morning is in fact their starting quarterback because I've done so much work on him but of one thing that stood out to me actually a couple of things Fitzpatrick's two thousand nineteen touchdowns. It's ten his interceptions. He's thrown ten. I don't know if ass stat could ever more beautifully some career than those status right now where he is and even if you don't have to take. Pf Grades as Gospel but you look at him since he returned as the starter in week. Six solid grade a little below solid grade bad bad pretty good bad pretty good bad. This is a streaky. streaky quarterback and look each other's interceptions touchdowns for my money. Ten of those touchdowns could've come in one game. Ten of those interceptions could come in another game and you even look back to. I know you look back at last year so we can talk about that too. But don't sleep on Ryan Ryan Fitzpatrick in this Miami. T. Miami's has stayed in some games for the reputation as a team. That's tanking they've Cena some games. They probably had no business being whatsoever and as eagles fans know from last. Dear against the bucks fizz Patrick and carve-up if he gets in a rhythm he's he's a smart dude is also a risk taker. And that's part of why interceptions career receptions are so high though sleep on the Harvard product man. That's all I'm saying. I mean look he can do some things and you go back to that game last year. Where like you said? He carved up Philadelphia. He got he was really efficient in that game. My thought attack in the middle of the field. You had the open touchdown to Jackson. Where Malcolm Jenkins I don't know what he was like? That was that sort of post route where he tries to jumping jumping not existed. Dig Out in front of it. Maybe you've seen so much filming expected them to run bills and he was jumped with the day. I don't know everyone in the stadium knew that disarm Jackson was going deep when they saw. I was sitting there with John I was sitting right next to John. Archerd me and John Look to each other and go other dialing up a shop way right here this is Shaun on everyone saw the PA- Jenkins Anyway. Go ahead Chris you know. He attacked the middle of the field wealthy at a seem row where he threw on Haas concept to OJ Howard which was good aww dig route to OJ Howard for yet touchdown. So he did. He did some nice things. The interested they with Fitzpatrick. Is this one pressure this year Mitchell trubisky has has it adjusted. Completion percentage of fifty eight point eight when pressure this year rifle factory has an adjusted. Completion percentage of fifty eight point. I mean so you're facing facial Mitchell trubisky when pressured this week if you're the Philadelphia Eagles and so you've got to look forward to at least maybe that will make Thanksgiving taste a little bit better. But can I count that for a second you. You can certainly counter because what we saw from Ryan Fitzpatrick in the week. Two matchup was a time to throw of two point. Two one seconds that that was tied for second fastest of the week and Fitzpatrick this year is like is like these type for like eleven and time to throw for the season so fitzpatrick knows against his pass rush. You have to to get it out quickly and I remember charting aching because I was very interested. Because there's a big discussion in Philadelphia. At the time was you know is it. The pastor is the coverage and because people thought the passwords didn't get home home night game or they didn't have a chance because on seventy one percent of his drawbacks Ryan. Fitzpatrick got rid of the ball. Either at the top of his drop or within one hitch in it really negated what the eagles were able. What do from a risk perspective? Yeah that's exactly right and you know. He's a smarter quarterback to know both his limitations overall it is offenses limitations. So you're gonNA see a guy that's an offense where he knows he has to get the ball out and it's an offense that wants to be an offense where the quarterback has the bottoms heads. Quick we're talking about shadow attache former wide receiver coach New England Patriots. Now their offense coordinator. This is basically like New England. Lineup is often should see you see a lot of sort of bunch concepts a lot of time. Limited rhythm throws lots of sort of quick game stuff new England's that aren't parking type system at least from a name calling convention standpoint but it's really a blend of west coast air-raid arrayed and you know some vertical shop place from here and there. They're going to try to get the bottle fitzpatrick fans quickly. You're going to see a lot of bunch concept slaughter return route concept's APPs where you've got looks to be that Crosser Juke route guy's gonNA break back out. We see item and run all the time. You're going to see stuff like that. To alpe Wilson and company they really want to minimize is what the quarterback has to do. The problem is. It's not like the run of the ball extremely while either and so they get behind the sticks ton you know. They'll miss on a throw at suddenly. It's thirty nine in. That just plays into what the defense wants to do. Then you're gonNA have to hold the ball a little bit longer. Even though the time to throw this year two point five one seconds like it's pretty good not Garoppolo numbers or breeze number. Certainly but I want to get the ball out. While they're he'll be able to whether health guys open remains to be seen her. So what do you think overall for this Philadelphia Eagles defense that has seemed to have gotten right before the by they played a couple of pretty good games against bad quarterbacks. Tom Brady had an off game. That may have partly been a a product of the Philadelphia Eagles. Defense as well definitely a very good game against MVP candidate Russell Wilson. Were they able to to get after eight and four and finally start to create some turnovers. Did you think that Miami Dolphins all fence led by Ryan. Fitzpatrick is a real threat for this defense. I honestly don't think so. And I think you look at that New England game as a good good sort of measuring stick for what you're GonNa see this week again. Offense is going to be similar. Veteran quarterback wants to get the ball out of his hands and you saw the eagles defense was able to do against New England and and yes the New England offense they have their share of struggles. But it's a better offense in Miami's Ed so I think the defense is GonNa be fine. The big question mark. I think everybody's worried about in Philadelphia. Right now he's okay. That's great. What can the often is this? Hit Right Games. Lisa gave from west and I think it will be by. I'm going to bet the House on it. You know it's one of those situations where yeah I think. The Eagles offense is going to have a bounceback type of week. They'll have an opportunity to put up some points. Where does going down to Miami in December? Technically I guess because we first data some really scare you at this point and I'll probably not and so. Oh yeah they should get right. But I'm not betting the mortgage on it. I don't feel comfortable doing that. Marriage is fine though. You can't if you lose your house you're married so Surrey's bets that smart. Never bet on football. I that either goodness no no people checklists result. especially if you listen to this shield is we're not going to give you the information you need trust us on that one financial advice from QB's coach that's of course unless you're using draft kings sportsbook official partners have has been shit. Yeah got about that. Smart any Any last thoughts before we get out of here on this Thanksgiving you it is a marathon not a sprint friends by that I mean not the football season the Thanksgiving holiday. Okay okay. We just mentioned at the outset this big bar night of the year I know most of you are probably going to be out habits fun tonight. It's a marathon sprint pace yourselves. Mix it a water here and there by water. I I mean you know a a claw or truly because those are basically water you mix one of those with the hard stuff. You'RE GONNA be fine pace yourself during the meal like I know. Oh you WANNA reach for the mashed potatoes. I ease into them. Okay ease into them okay. It's got a long road ahead of you should just be smart. Be Safe and listened to the QB Scotia Tokyo for great sound life and financial advice. That's it that's it. We have everything you need. So don't go anywhere else. Why will come and find you? That's going to do it for the peace. Go so episode. Forty two happy Thanksgiving gene. Hey there podcast Powell's I'm John Stolnis. The host of the PHILLIES pod hidden season. One of the shows that make up the good fight podcast family from espy nation. Look the baseball season one hundred sixty two games and there's no way you can watch all those games so make sure to check out my podcast twice a week for all the fills goodness. You could ever want and make sure to check. Check out our other great podcasts including the award winning dirty inning with Justin clue and Trevor strunk and continued success with Justin and Liz. Rozier subscribe on Apple podcasts. Or your favorite podcast APP.

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