7 Episode results for "Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley"

Mon. 07/27 - The Year Without a Summer

Coronavirus Daily Briefing

16:56 min | 3 months ago

Mon. 07/27 - The Year Without a Summer

"Welcome to the good news ride home for Monday July, twenty, seven, two, thousand and twenty I'm Jackson Bird look at a promising hand-held robotic mobility! Aid For vision impaired people how people kept cool. We're like you know stayed alive. During heatwaves before air conditioning as well as the year that the world's skipped summer, how animal crossing helped returned a lost nintendo switch to its owner and the latest way that Sports Leagues are filling their empty stadiums. Here are some of the cool things from the news today. The heat of summer is well and truly here in the Northern Hemisphere, the hot humid days just won't let up and living in new. York City I continue to be frustrated that central air conditioning is not as ubiquitous in homes and businesses, as it is in most parts of the southern United States where I grew up. Then, of course, it's always been substantially hotter in those southern states, although with climate change, the northeast is heating up more and more, but that does make me think sometimes. How the heck did people survive before? Joining especially in those very hot climates, farmers ALMANAC A few insights nothing to mind blowing people would take day trips to swing holes or up. To cooler weather, they kept windows and doors shut at midday to keep out hot air and delayed cooking or baking. Until the evening they ate refreshing. Cool treats and was available in homes, blue fans across blocks of ice, the biggest factor most likely however was it simply wasn't as hot as it is now at least in terms of extremes, quoting farmers, Almanac, the extra ordinarily hot summers that are commonplace today were virtually unheard of fifty to one hundred years ago in fact, seven of the top ten coolest, US summers on record occurred nineteen, hundred and nineteen fifty and quotes. There was one year however over two centuries ago now that it was a lot cooler. Eighteen Sixteen Aka the year without a summer quoting farmers. ALMANAC referred to by many names, including the poverty year and eighteen hundred and froze to death, the year eighteen sixteen was literally a year without a summer across much of the northern hemisphere throughout not only North America, but also northern Europe and parts of Asia in exceptionally cold summer, featuring killing frosts in July in August crippled food production crop failures in food shortages were. Were so widespread that rioting and looting became common in the United Kingdom and France on this side of the Atlantic. Many residents of New England and the Canadian Maritimes froze to death, starved, or suffered from severe malnutrition, as storms, bringing foot, or more of snow, hit hard during May and June. Many others from the region pulled up stakes and move to western New York in the Mid West where the cold was less severe. In fact, the year without a summer is now believed to have been one major catalyst in the westward expansion of the United States and quotes Nicole may have been less severe in the southern and Western us, but it was still highly unusual on July fourth eighteen sixteen. It was forty six degrees Fahrenheit in Savannah Georgia. For the record this year on July fourth and Savannah, it was ninety degrees. So. Why did this happen? It was due to one of the largest volcanic eruptions in recorded history Indonesia's Tamboura. The volcano erupted on April Fifth Eighteen fifteen, continuing to up for a week and killing nearly all of the twelve thousand residents of Tim, Bora as well as almost all plants in animal life on the island, quoting the Paris review, countless tons of volcanic. Volcanic ash circulated in the upper atmosphere for years after the events blocked out sunlight and lowering average surface temperatures globally in parts, of North, America Europe temperatures dropped by more than eighteen degrees. Fahrenheit there was snow in New England July and dark rain clouds swept over Europe throughout the summer months in Hungary reports of Brown snowfall, tainted by volcanic ash and quotes. Understandably many thought the world was ending that the sun was dying. It's really fascinating. Though is some of the cultural ripples that this massive event caused. You may be familiar with the story of how Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley was inspired to write Frankenstein as part of a spooky storytelling challenge when she percy shelley and Lord Byron and friends were holed up in a villa in Geneva. One stormy summer turns out. It was this dark, thunderous apocalyptic. Apocalyptic summer of eighteen sixteen. The crew had gone to Geneva, both to ride out the unusually rainy summer, but also to escape their various dramas in England, being stuck indoors for so much of their trip Lord. Byron challenged them all to write ghost stories to entertain one. Another Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein which would set the stage for all of science fiction to come? Also among the Geneva Villa guests was Lord Byron's personal physician Dr John Polidori. Who wrote short story for the challenge called the vampire, and this story is often credited with the birth of the Modern Vampire Romance. But those genre defining publications aren't the only cultural institutions to come out of the summer last year of Eighteen, sixteen among the mini shortages across Europe was a crucial shortage of oats which led to the starvation and deaths of countless humans and livestock, including at least ten thousand horses, not counting how many were also slaughtered to save money or become dinner German? Baron Carl Dreyer's and inventor in student of mathematics started trying to design a man powered form of transportation, while historians agree that he was inspired by the weather based os shortage. He also saw a need for an alternative to horses as crucial for war. Quoting the Paris review his first designs for human powered transportation involved complex conveyor belt, driven four wheeled vehicles, but raises breakthrough came when he turned his thoughts to balance drawing on his experiences, skating on ice ponds drains, put his faith in the power momentum and front wheel, steering to keep a two wheel vehicle rate. This idea became his love, machine or running machine and quotes, and this running machine would become the modern day bicycle. All of this makes me think about how many things will change or be invented from this moment that we're living through. And of course there's a lot of things we're already seen, and we're likely to continue to see some big cultural shift, but like who, out there is writing the next genre defining novel that people will still be reading two centuries later. Who's inventing something that will be innovated on for decades before becoming a ubiquitous ordinary mode of transportation. Maybe won't be those types of things specifically, but there are surely ideas happening and things being created that we won't realize the impact of for decades to come. Police in Taiwan were successfully able to return a lost nintendo switch to its owner by plane animal crossing New Horizons. The owner had placed the switch on top of an ATM while he got money out of it and forgot to take it with him when he left, passers-by handed it over to the police, which honestly might be the true miracle of the story? I mean how many people find an abandoned switch, and actually go through the work of handing it over instead of keeping it for themselves or trying to hock it. But anyways, if you are one of these seemingly very few people on Earth like me, who has not been playing animal crossing throughout the pandemic, an important thing to know is that in the game you have a kind of Avatar of yourself, and you can befriend strangers and your real life friends and together you can do things like visiting each other's. And also sending each other male through virtual post office. Being, amongst the majority of people who do play animal crossing the Taipei police, the lost switch owners account to send a message to all of his friends in the game and all of the people who had recently visited his island. A few friends saw the message from the police, and the man was able to get his device back safe and sound, so if you do find an abandoned switch at some point, and you want to be a good Samaritan instead of just keeping it for yourself, here's a great tip, just kind of in the middle man and play whatever games on it and message. All of the users friends fallen creative and apparently super effective. As, there's something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals as the of lockdown drag on still be unable to see my family and so many my friends. It can sometimes get to me. If you're feeling the same way, it might help to talk to someone better. Health can assess your needs. Match you with your own licensed professional therapist. You can start communicating with them in under forty eight hours better. Health is not a crisis line. Line, it's not self help. It is professional. Counseling done securely online. There's a broad range of expertise available, which may not be locally available in many areas, and the service is available for clients worldwide. You can log into your account anytime and send a message to your counselor. You'll get timely thoughtful responses, plus you can a weekly video phone sessions, so you won't ever have to risk going to person office and waiting in an uncomfortable waiting room with traditional. Traditional therapy better help is committed to facilitating therapeutic matches, so they make it easy and free to change counselors, if needed, it's also more affordable than traditional offline counseling and financial aid is available. Better help wants you to start living a happier life today you can visit their website and read the testimonials that are posted daily like this one quote. I wasn't sure what to expect as I've never tried a counseling APP before, but my counselor validated so much. Much of what I was feeling in a way I hadn't heard in years of therapy and quotes. In fact, so many people have been using better health today are recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states, and there is a special offer for good news. Right home listeners. You can get ten percent off your first month. At better health dot com slash reports. That's better H E l, P DOT com slash report for ten percent off your first month. Yesterday marked thirty years since the passage of the Americans with disabilities act a landmark civil rights law that prohibits discrimination against the disabled and requires employers and public spaces to make reasonable accommodations for accessibility. There is still a ton of work that needs to be done towards accessibility and inclusivity. In honor of the anniversary highlight one cool, potentially upcoming advancement for the vision impaired in his a robotic mobility device that functions similarly to guide dogs. While guide dogs and other types of service dogs can be of an enormous help and comfort to many for others they aren't. An option may be due to allergies, living space, cost or other constraints. This new hand-held robotic device aims to provide an alternative for some of those challenges, including even the cost which will be about ten percents the cost of a guide. Guide dog, quoting new atlas, the device is called Thea, and it was conceived by industrial design student, Anthony Camus who drew inspiration from virtual reality. Gaming Consoles in autonomous vehicles. The technology is currently in prototype form with a few kinks to be ironed out, but the basic premise is that thank acts as a robotic guide dog to help visually impaired users navigate. Navigate to their destination key to this is what's known as a control moment gyroscope, which often features as part of spacecraft attitude control systems, including that used on the International Space Station. This enables the to provide force feedback, depending on where it's headed and move the users hand as a way of leading them to a desire direction much like a guide dogs. Dogs brace. They would find its way through door and camera system that enables it to build a three-dimensional image of the environment much like a self driving car users can enter their destination through voice, commands and onboard processors will determine the best path to take even factory, and in real time data on pedestrian card traffic as well as the weather and quotes. The device itself looks kind of like a small futuristic hairdryer, and is meant to be held aloft in front of you to guide you along as if you were holding onto your friends, elbow, or as the article, says the leash of Guide Dog Wallace still has plenty of kinks to work out like vibrating at the wrong times and the motor failing Kim. Who is optimistic about getting it off the ground and seeing how accessibility options are expanding with technology is really cool and reassuring for future with customization and cheaper price tags. A video posted by twitter user Christie. Veers went viral this weekend showing how she uses her iphone as a visually impaired person, she shows off all of the voice control how it reads which apps she runs her fingers across, and then how to double tap to select them, and even how to pull up a Braille keyboard to type with instead of the standard keyboard. If you're curious, you can watch that video at the Lincoln the show notes. Apple has long been ahead of the curve when it comes to accessibility. Many of my friends with disabilities swear by apple products, even though they sometimes wish, competitors would get with the program so they can have more options. And this has long been a priority at Apple. In two thousand fourteen Tim Cook responded to some shareholders implications that the company's focus on environmental sustainability was a bad business move and as an example of doing the right thing, because it's the right thing, and not because it's good or bad for business. He additionally said quote. We work on making our devices accessible for the blind. I don't consider the bloody Roi and quotes. As much work as is being done in some areas, a lot still remains in the fight for full accessibility and equality, and if you WANNA learn more about the passage of the Americans with Disabilities Act. I highly recommend the documentary crew camp on Netflix, which follows the young people from Camp Jeanette a hippyish summer camp in upstate new. York for kids with disabilities, many of whom went on to become the. The primary activists who worked to get the ADA passed the film was executive produced by the OBAMAS and has gotten rave reviews from people with disabilities for portraying them as real complex people, not inspirational childlike people to be pitied, and most likely achieved this, because it was actually co directed by sound designer and filmmaker James Lebron a wheelchair user himself who attended the summer camp that the film focuses on. is also topping a lot of lists for Oscar predictions so seriously it is incredible and you should watch it. Ending today with a quick update on my continuing fascination with how sports leagues are handling the lack of fans in their stands, the NBA has just announced. They will be using Microsoft's video conferencing platform Microsoft teams to project fans into the arenas during games Microsoft tweeted a photo mockup of what it will look like essentially seventeen foot tall led screens that will wrap around three sides of the court and feature the faces of over three hundred fans. Using Microsoft's recently announced. Announced together mood feature, quoting Gizmodo together mode uses ai segmentation technology to digitally put meeting, or in this case game participants in a shared background for Microsoft this makes people feel like they're sitting in the same room as everyone else in a meeting or class, if through the typical grid of boxes that were used in video chat out the window, instead together mode looks like you're looking at the entire group in a virtual mirror with a unique background and quotes. The NBA will also have ways for fans whether they're in the video call or not to cheer for the team using in APP or Hashtag they'll also feature fans videos from top challenges offer an official court, snapchat lenses and have custom viewing options on the NBA APP and website where you can alternate feeds of different camera angles use enhanced graphics, and even have different influencers call the game with various focus areas like fashion, music or analytics. And while the video call screens. Do Look just about as off as anything that we're trying to recreate using video calls these days. The NBA seems to be doing whatever they can to make the Games of fun experience for fans and keep players motivated with the. Lack of flesh energy powering the arena, and that's not nothing. That is all for today as always. This show was produced by ride home media. I am Jackson Bird I hope you have a good rest of your day and I will talk to you tomorrow.

Europe United States Microsoft Lord Byron NBA Apple Paris review nintendo Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley Geneva New England Frankenstein Savannah Baron Carl Dreyer New York Indonesia
The Haunting of Villa Diodati

Next Stop Everywhere: The Doctor Who Podcast

1:07:35 hr | 8 months ago

The Haunting of Villa Diodati

"Everywhere hello again hooligans. Welcome back to next up everywhere. The doctor WHO PODCAST CO host. Charles skaggs back in the tortoise once again. Ready to talk some series twelve with my wonderful partner. Time all around wonderful person and One of the coolest people you ever get to meet in the known universe Jesse Jackson. How you doing Jesse I am good. Charles the Tartus is being kind to us today. We're getting we're able to land a little bit closer to the broadcast date than what we've been doing so also known as Jesse schedule kind of was doing better this week. Yes effort for for once Jesse and his wife. Wendy Linda were off on a vacation. That's right and I get to Well deserved vacation. I might add. Thank you and so it was very nice as Charleston. I've talked about. The new GIG is less than five minutes from the House. So used to be with Plano Where I was working. It was a thirty to forty five minute commute home so to to kit at six o'clock Jesse time. Seven o'clock Charleston is tough but now then it's like okay. We almost six thirty your time. So yeah because I know You know some of you have been the little like. Hey where's our episodes because we had a little lax? I know Dave Mackay. Proctor was for one Checked in with us like are you guys. Ok We haven't gotten your episode and So we're like okay. We need the kind of get these going. A little faster so So here at episode. One seventy two. We're GONNA talk the hunting of villa. Do Dadi which aired just a few days ago on February sixteenth twenty twenty. My Dad's eighty fifth birthday which went very very well by the way and Written by maxine alternate Alderson. Excuse me new doctor who directed by Emma Sullivan. Who direct the previous episode. Can you hear me? And this is the eighth episode of series twelve. So one of the things I thought was interesting Charles is. This is not co written by the show runner. Yes and most of the episodes this week this season having co written by him well you know he kind of did that a little bit too although he wrote most of them solo last year but Frank Kinda had his fingers in. It's nothing new Stephen Moffatt kind of used to tack his name on as well. Stephen Moffatt editor. Sometimes I kind of wondered why he got involved because I think some of them some of those stories in the Mafia would I think would have been better without his interference. Meddling but Interaction Yeah I think one of the things we have been told is Chris. Cheblal is doing this more of a traditional. Us Writer's room right where In the past it's been not a writer's room he just Moffitt and Russell t Davies would assign a story to someone this one kind of collaborative and The reality is When you run up when you do a writer's room Everyone kind of helps a little bit on plot and then they assign someone to Actually go ride it so I think this person a pretty good job. Yeah maxine Alderson human. I think in the case of like something like the the fugitive. Je Dune where it was something that was so central to the series two overarching storyline that That makes sense for chip not get involved but here I think he kind of probably. Liz looked at the script and thought it was a very solid script so didn't need him to At anything at least enough to warrant a credit and You know I and I really enjoyed the script and I love the episode. I thought it was a very solid episode. Great doctor who anybody that has had criticisms of of The season in particular You know there's nothing preachy about it. No no message so that old excuse or that the particular complaint doesn't really fly here and You know maybe that's too too why this episode may come off generally better than than some others. What I thought it was really good. I thought it was very creepy. I always like when they do a historical figures And it's that famous Focal focus folklore. Right of you know all these writers being together and and you know who can come up with the scariest story and And they had a little fun with that right right. Oh let's dance the more so I liked it. I liked it a lot. I thought it was Very nice to have the cyberman being involved with the Creator Frankenstein I don't I'm hoping you explain a little bit of the half face. Cyberman not sign that before so I thought that was interesting and Yeah it was just a really good episode solid episode. Yeah so be sure to watch your fucking language just indeed so Yeah I obviously you know on record being a big fan of the doctor who stories so this one was great. It's in my wheelhouse You know very much you know the haunted house hence the title the Haunting Avila. Dod Yeah and You know there's obviously more going on and I think a lot of people were pleasantly surprised. that this trip back through history into history to meet Mary Shelley. Who is the creator of Frankenstein? The classic novel the Classic Novel That it tied in to the upcoming two part season finale essentially the Cyberman and children of time and You know that That it's apparently pretty important to that. So I think a Lotta. Hopefully that kind of pleasantly surprised some people and maybe made this episode a little bit more important as a result. I was pleasantly surprised. I thought it was really well done. And yes good stuff. Good all right Let's run down. Our our guest cast this time. We had Lily Miller as Mary wollstonecraft. Godwin as the you know. The the the unmarried name of Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley. And you pretty new actress Jake. Jacob Colin Levy played Lord Byron. And you know obviously the the thirteenth Dr Heads Zero time for he played a character named Rufus in a big finish. Seventh Doctor Audio. That just came out not too long ago called an alienware. Wolf in London. And if you're a fan of the miniseries the white princess that aired on Starz not too long ago he was actually Henry. The seventh in so my my wife Lori was Surprise when I mentioned that little tidbit to her because she's a big fan of those. You know the white queen the White Princess and the Spanish Princess series of mini series based on novels Patrick Kane played a shod. The loan cyberman every time they say. Loan Cyberman I WANNA go like you know like you know the I think of the lone ranger cyberman riots. Yes I agree with with a cloud of Nano dust or whatnot and so Anyway so he might be notable. To game of thrones fan because he was the new face of Jacqueline Hagar. The Face Changer. Right. He was the guy that you know when when regard initially said goodbye to Arya He was the face than Jack. Jack and Hogar assumed okay. I did not recognize that I am kind of a little bit obscure US also in the movie. The Star Wars the last Jedi little movie you may have heard of and A little bit more scary movie exorcist. The beginning if you're exorcist Fan Lewis Rayner played. Who Played Percy bish Celli was in the Dracula the two thousand thirteen TV series that aired on NBC the One Chart Star Jonathan. Rhys Meyers. I believe as as Dracula I kind of liked. That show only lasted a season. But I don't think I watched that but it was pretty good. I thought okay. Maxim Baldry played at John Dory Dr Pillory and he was on. Hbo's Rome and he's going to beyond the upcoming Lord of the Rings TV series. Okay so Not sure what characters playing. But apparently he's going to be on that show and not parks play cleric Clermont and She was also in another stars. Miniseries the Spanish princess so so that's our principal. Cast this time. Okay all right I do have a couple things a trivia. Please forget into our main topics. If you're a big fan of fan you might be familiar with the The the the notion that this is not the doctor's first encounter with Mary Shelley because two big finish at least two big finish audio plays involve the eighth Doctor Meeting Mary Shelley Around Eighteen. Sixteen upon where in one of those You know she joined the him briefly as a companion so she was actually one of the eighth doctor audio companions for a brief time very brief time like four audios I think total and one of the audio plays the Silver Turk that was in two thousand eleven involved in meeting Vault doctor and Mary Shelley meeting a damaged Cyberman off which became similar inspiration for Mary. Shelley to write Frankenstein. Okay makes sense so So I don't know if chip no listen to that kind of got the idea but It's kind of a natural enough idea. I guess to make a Cyberman the inspiration for Frankenstein and Maxine altered in Definitely plays that up here in her script but but yeah I guess this continuity because it's TV kind of supersedes big finish audio. So I don't so maybe that that doesn't quite fit into cannon anymore Silverton so that's okay sadly because it was a pretty good one Lord Byron Little Kid Little Trivia on him he was known to tortuously for his promiscuity of course and had to flee London to Lake Geneva prior to eighteen sixteen turns out. Guess what in? They kind of touched on this briefly Not sure if anybody caught it but he's legitimate father to Ada lovelace who the doctor and her companions met way back at the beginning of the season in The spy fall two parter. Yes that's right. I had not connected that but yes they did talk about that so I don't know if that has any importance but but I find it very interesting. Id to that's kind of Nice so just a little bit of Trivia there for okay for anyone that may not know that if you already know that you're smarter than me yes which isn't hard but Yeah just throwing that out there all right three topics this time and actually have a theme. Yes Okay and doing on short notice to all right So topic number one Ozzy Mantius. Oh okay so I'm gonNA throw that out there that there for now and In this topic I want to talk about the doctor. And the FAM- okay. So we have the thirteenth doctor after promising to At the end of can you hear me to bring everybody back to Meet Mary Shelley the crater of Frankenstein. The the doctor Fam- they travel back to Lake Geneva in eighteen. Sixteen year without a summer and show up at The villa dod where Just so happens Mary. Shelley's there with Lord Byron John Dory and Claire Clairmont and bad. I thought you know they had a very funny encounter at the beginning right before the credit started and and get invited in in and So I want to get your thoughts on the doctrine. The FAM meeting there Mary Shelley and then kind of The doctor face to face with and we'll talk about the loan. Cyberman more third sub segment. But I want to get your thoughts on the doctor's perspective on that all right. So my initial gas is either watchmen characters or epic points a theme so just throwing that out there with the first clue. I first off. I loved that the psychic papers didn't work and they made the joke like. Oh maybe they need to be dried out but often we've established geniuses see-through the psychic paper right and so because it did work for William Shakespeare absolutely didn't Shakespeare Coats. Oh yes So I thought that was nice The doctors not dressed very period. -Ly even though the Fam- is You know the doctor kind of universal. The doctor doesn't care the doctors travel. Like I'm just GonNa wear what I want. I want to be instable right. You guys wear the funny clothes. I'm going to be comfortable in my like grey overcoat siegried. Yes or whatever you WANNA call boots. Yes and my doc martens. Yes felt fed a little bit for Graham not being able to fine the privy like. Oh Yeah we haven't had that while you're waiting since you mentioned that I have to. I have to. We have to talk about that a little bit. Yeah how great is Graham? He has Because he's so relatable. Yes because we talked about how grams the companion. It's always looking for food or you know he's the con- convenient realizes you know this could take awhile. I'm going to need a pack sandwich in my jacket right and and now Graham is like I don't think any other companion has made the comment and feel free to correct me. If I'm wrong here. Yeah but to my the best of my recollection. Grandma's on the one to go. Hey I kind of need to use the bathroom. Yeah it's like yeah and I would come up especially in the modern era. You know. It's like yeah. Hey I'm older. You know like at a p more and I thought it was funny that it didn't connect to him that they wouldn't have Necessary Indoor plumbing right You know so I'll just hold it. You know this. I thought that was a pretty funny line It was some Nice interactions I have a question for you okay. at one point yet has talking to And I I can't remember which character whether it was married. The other female about he doesn't seem to pay attention to me no matter what they were kind of talking Romance right and in. Yeah says yes. I know what that's like. Who Do you think she's talking about? Do you remember that scene? And did you have a thought? About what kind of you know. They've kind of hinted very vaguely but they've hinted that yes kind of crushes on doctor okay. You think that's it. I think that's not Ryan. No Not Ryan. I think I think you know. Especially you know Ryan's talked about that. You know wants to hook up with his sister. Yeah but yes doesn't seem to be really having any interest in Ryan. Okay even though she's had plenty of opportunity. Okay but you know so. I'm kind of the opinion that is yet another companion that crushes on the doctor. It just so happens this time. The doctor's a woman. Well it's very subtle as you said so. It isn't like the first lesbian crush on the doctor. Yes or at least bisexual crush on the DOC. Okay all right. That was interesting unless unless you count river I guess but yeah I I loved. The river wasn't companion so yeah I again. I loved all the interactions. I love the You you going down the staircase and to get up right The rooms going back and forth Just all kinds of cursive on themselves. Yeah Yeah Yeah that was It was very interesting and It just it was spooky There's there's some nice moments with the companions we do get the Graham says he sees a ghost in later. They can't explain it doctor kind of doesn't like oh well there are no ghost or maybe there is you know does not help him at all the documents just winding up Graham. Yes I guess. It's because you know the doctors pretty much been on record that there's no such thing as ghosts. Yes but knows that Graham might be concerned about that so I think she's just Kinda messing with him a little bit. Yeah when she does that whole bit like when she talked about being bankruptcy and she you know she said you know back in Rosa and she's like you know or am I see that whole thing so it I guess if we pull this apart. I don't know if the companions had a lot to do this time but I don't think they kinda of you know they're the one that we're kind of getting in the doctor's face especially when the when the loan cyberman showed up. Yes they're the ones screaming at going. Don't give it to the loan. Cyber Man yes and you know especially yeah yeah yeah's and Ryanair like screaming this at the top of their lungs so of course. What does the doctor do but give it gives the Siberian to the The Loan Cyberman. Yeah and so. What was your reaction at that moment? Well I thought I thought it was. This doctor can be very funny. Yes it's Dr can be very Whimsical and fly at times right But this time I thought she was as he say deadly serious in kind of calling out Ryan. Okay so you say I just let this person die right but do you realize that his words have influenced people and then it's it is going to change the world so the world you were born into no longer exists you may not exist anymore but do I still let them go and you know what sometimes And I didn't write down the exact. I've got the full where you know. Sometimes I have to make the decision because I'm the only one that can and I thought that was I thought that was a good moment and I think that is which may be go back to. That's why asked you about the water mars since seen with With tenants Dr going I can do this now I have. I'm the only time where it left. I can make these decisions. So yeah the So you kind of the Was it here? The the thirteenth doctors Moment where Going you know like kind of like the Oh I forget the terminology and waters of Mars. What they call the doctor at the time. Lord Victoria's thank you thank you. Yeah I'm having a senior moment I guess so The time or Victoria. So do you think it was kind of like? That was a little hint of the tie. The doctor's time Victoria's moment I do and I like the idea that she's okay. I'm in a tough place right. I'm going to part. One of my plan is to give the loan. Saruman this thing. Yes and then part. Two of my plan is fixing that. I did part one right. Because if she didn't do part one She's she was worried about the consequences of what would happen so she is in one of those. What do you do you know you you know? There is She's got me. How do you trust yourself to get her out of this mess right? She chose because especially she's trying to save everything and so yeah so she makes this choice and even against you know all the advice Jackson warning from the future. Or what have you and you know she. And she's raw hoping that she's going to be able to dig yourself out of this dilemma. That she's creative I self. And it's the whole This is a little bit as excuse are cross-reference for minute. But she's in a co BRACI. Meru right there is a no win. Scenario Kobe Meru. Yeah Yeah and then I'm also thinking which is kind of interesting because notice Ryan was essentially laying down going full spot on the doctor going. Basically TALKING ABOUT SHELLY. Being you know like the needs of the one outweighing the needs of the many yes and the doctor just shuts that down. Yeah quickly right as like look you know. It's more than just him and and I also made me think of the great scene in watchmen right when they're at the funeral and the Laurie Checking the TV TV series where there's a funeral and there's a terrorist. Yes I've got a deadman switch and shoot some kids like oh they never have that. Oh my God in this case they did and so. The doctor believes words. You Know Ryan's going look just make that happen it. It's GONNA be okay. You know no matter what you do. Don't give this alone Cyberman and let whatever consequences happen happen but the doctor can see that. There's ripples that dominoes will fall and she can't do that so I think you're perfectly right. She's going okay. I'm GonNa Count on my intelligence Mike Cleverness that I'm gonNA figure this out early in my career. I had to do a like personality. Assessment and one of the things was you were a procrastinator Jesse. Right but you're smart enough to know. How long can wait instill get what you need done? And I think the doctor is saying right like I have confidence in myself that I'm GonNa get myself out of this okay interesting. Yeah yeah by the way. My personality test was under guy who calls it like he sees it every whether he should not. Yes which makes for a podcast right. Yes it does makes us perfect for vodka all right all right anything else about the doctor in the FAM? Yeah just I especially you know that that that the climactic scene between the doctor and the fan where the doctors calling them out because the doctor is this you know the companions are you know. They're they're they're from Earth and they just you know living there normalize and then the doctor is this. Essentially this big this greater long living cosmic being almost and kind of sees the big picture when it comes to time because hey she's a time lord and so Her perspective is completely different. And and it's one of those times where I think her companions. Kinda get reminded that and one of the things I really really liked. That was very cool. Yeah is the and then at the end right. We get the where she's warning them. Okay like okay. I've gotta go figure this out right. You know I I've I've I've got to come up with part of my plan part two and they're like okay. We're here with you. I mean they continue to be very loyal to the doctor. They believe in the doctor and so I thought that was a nice seen as well. Yeah it's kind of goes back to One of the doctor quotes from our earlier episodes. We talked about the season where you know. Sometimes she's only got the letter P in as part of the plan. Yes and then. She has to kind of make the rest up as she goes along. Yes so I guess this is the case here in which is have to hope that the doctor knows what she's doing right and And that everything turns out. Okay well lots of plans. I'm raining with planes is just finding the right one correct. Exactly exactly all right. Let's a great doctor quits about plans. Aren't there yes she's her. The doctor is her own motivational poster. I guess time all right at least For for encouraging you know planning in the workforce because you know you gotTa Work Your Plan Plan. You work that whole thing there. You go all right all right number. Two topping number two the triumph of life. Ooh Okay so my first two guests were totally wrong. Okay all right so now. I'm I'm kind of rains ozzy. Mantius and the triumph of life. I continue okay. So let's this is where we're going to talk about our Nineteenth Century character. So we're gonNA talk about Mary. Shelley Lord Byron Pierce Percy bysshe. Shelley John Dory and Claire. Clermont's what do you make of characters especially you know we were. We get to meet Mary. Shelley Lord Byron. Maybe even if you're not as familiar with their work you've at least maybe heard the names before cancer so In an Percy shelley so Some of the more notable literary greats poets. And what have you so So what did you make of the of these Historical characters so I? I am not as familiar with their work as I probably should be. Right I do not remember studying there though and I I meant to Google it and look 'cause I know there's at least a couple of like. Oh that guy that point you know I I liked it. I liked Byron was kind of big a jerk right and I like which is consistent with yet based on what you've said yesterday. Yes yeah and I like how he was called out at the end right. You know because it was. I was kind of surprised when he was hiding behind. Claire Yeah. He's hiding behind her skirts. Because he's such a manly man. Yeah and I like how. She called him out. I like that. She said not only. Did you hide behind me? You flirted with Mrs Doctor Right Right. Isn't that what they call her hair? Yeah and I thought that was kind of funny The and she kept calling telling them. No it's just no doctors like okay Mrs Doctor. So I kinda liked the interaction back and forth A lot of fun a lot of interesting things. They're you know they're kind of set in their ways. The you know we got dancing. We've got all this interactions right and then Once they are text. Oh yes Christmas solloway over from the Phantom Zone yes he had so And they were very very Gear the when they're all separated they got to interact with the doctor. And the rest of the FAM- so I thought that was a nice like I said the the family didn't have a lot to do as far as solving the problem but the interaction of the scariness and the spooky of was really nice. Well you know. Because the family essentially are hurt their task in the story where they're the ones directly interacting with you know the the historical characters as they react to everything so you know. The doctors focused on the mystery but rem you know for the purposes of the story. You know the group gets separated. They kind of get trapped in these kind of recur. Sive loops where characters would go into one room. They try to leave it and then just find themselves right back there or that. You know Mary Shelley with I think it was Ryan and yeahs on the staircase and trapped. He couldn't get out. You know they kept you know going upstairs and almost like an MCSE painting In and then you know coming finding themselves right back in the same spot Which it got even more horrific when Mary heard her. Baby William Cry. Yes and you know. She's trying to get to. Her baby is at her baby. Or Clair's baby. I think it's her baby. She said it was her son. William now the question that I not because I'm not as familiar with with the history. I kind of wonder you know well is it. Is it presumably Percy's because they aren't married yet 'cause gossip yeah but but I might be and I didn't get a lot of that gossip when they were dancing and everyone was sharing I didn'- pick up as much as I probably should have? I thought it was. It was good exposition and done in a clever way. But I didn't pick it up enough. I think for the same reason. I don't know these people well enough in historical context to get what's going on now. This is why we have wikipedia. You yes I know you can do your homework. Yes and go ahead I thought Byron and the whole you know. I've got a skeleton Ryo but with the actual skeletons. Yes now notice something. My Wife laureate brought up during my we re watch this evening You know that the didn't it wasn't really clear you know what was going on with the skeletal hand and skull. They haven't they didn't really come out straight and say okay. Well this was caused by this You know that animated skeletons that were in literally in Lord. Byron's closet just saying and the GIST. I got from the REWATCH. Was that they. The doctor talked about that. There was this kind of security field around the house because of the essentially concealing the Siberian right and and it was the thing that was causing all you know like You know all the precautions you know the and so my take on it is is that maybe it was that security system animating skeletons to essentially try to either distract or ward off people looking for the Siberian. Maybe maybe what did you think that because it was a little a little vague but So I kinda but I kinda chuck out of the yeah. It was the that security system. The question though is who installed that security system who who hit the Siberia. Yeah and hopefully. We'll get some answers. Maybe in our two-parter two part finale. Right all right but Yeah there are some very interesting things that that Dr What's his face Peel the Dory tries to have a duel with Ryan because he over agreed slights that that was kind of fun because Ryan essentially just you know. Call him out for being a jerk and yes and Mary's all like well you know he does this all the time. Yeah I thought that was nice and then right right understandably You know panicking because you know he's telling Graham like he's going to get a gun he's going to get a gun he's going to get a gun and which I totally get. Why would be panicked about that and But fortunately that Things happen to kind of put that dual too so that was so that was good and You know I love the doctor. Rebuffing Door Byron. You know like he's Lord Byron was just you know he comes off as super cheesy? The doctor has his number from the start. You know like right before they show up you know. The doctors warning her companions going look. Don't Smog Byron. Yes and you know and also mention because she knew he you know he was a he was a player and And then she gets stuck with him and he he's coming you know coming at her with all these cheesy cons and she's having no part of it like you know like just shuts him down coal and I really like that idea to one of the lines and it's just appropriate. I'll bring it up now is may I just say you're quite lovely in a crisis than the doctor? Now you may not just stolen my quotes. Yes I'm sorry but yeah just shut him down hard. I really absolutely all right anything else about this characters. Nope topic three all right topic number three permit theus unbound so alien movies so there was a movie called from Ethiopia. Yes that was a prequel. But but this is so we had Ozzie. Mantius the triumph of life and premier. Theus unbound okay and These are all literary works by Peercy. Bish Shelley Oh okay. Very nice so And I chose Ozzy Mandy. Ask the doctor and the fan because that poem is on the fate of history and the ravages of time yes so I thought that was rather fitting and I chose the triumph of because it's essentially the nature of of being in reality. Okay so I thought that was good. Considering how the those characters weren't sure about what they were experiencing And and of course Prometheus unbound. Well you know That's not to Mary Shelley referring of course to the loan Cyberman as the modern per meath. Yes yes which is the you know of the subtitle of Frankenstein France side or the modern prometheus. Yeah which I thought was a nice touch. Did know enough to recognize that right. Good good themes so fun so Yeah just in so hey. We got a little their literary and can learn something from the show all right. So let's talk about a shod the loan cyberman. Hi Yo Cyberman away. So he was really creepy. Yes I love the fact that I he had no power like he kept looking at his You know trying to shoot his little laser and then You know he gets recharged by trinity and the doctor going. Oh Oh that's not good Kinda surprising that the doctor didn't come back going like Performance anxiety yes. I really like a creepy. He was yes I also liked the scene where they go you save. You didn't hurt my baby and it sounds like he's going to be really nice right and talk about entity and then he kind of turns and you're like. Oh man that's horrible. That was just that was just like an. I killed my children as well or you know. Yeah very very Villainous I so any thoughts on the half face. So essentially what what? The doctor was calling him if you notice was. She's ferring to him as unfinished. So essentially he's a Cyberman that's been going through with starting to go through the conversion process but for whatever reason reasons we don't know yet yeah he still cooking or not quite done yet. So the question is why or is this some Future Cyber Man that has for whatever reason Kept some of their humanity. Yeah I don't we don't know yet. Maybe hopefully we'll find out in the next in the upcoming two parter but yeah that's something completely different for the show. I ran and I liked it. I thought it was really creepy and I thought it was like. Oh good I like this. I like this a lot. Yeah now yeah. I've noticed that you know. After after watching resolution you know the the holiday special which had the daleks earliest eight dollars. You've said Chris. Chandler has a thing for like kind of prototype. Rusty takes on the classic monsters. Yeah and I think that's good. I really like that. You know it so it kind of puts his own mark on the show. A little bit At least on the you know 'cause he's these villains are like they're over fifty years old so so he's trying something different and And I like that. Heidi too you know and just kind of like you know with when you only have like one dollars like we talked about in the episode Dalek or Resolution Just having one CYBERMAN clopping around as opposed to a whole army seems a lot crappier especially in a house right it does and I love that sound effect. It's you know it's consistent when the Saruman is is marching. They always have the same noise. It's they've saved that you know audio clip of the but it's got some you know some new cyberman sound effects like when they move their arms around or at least you know when when When you know this this cyberman blown sideway a shot. Moses armies more like yes coach that kind of thing that kind of sound mechanical sound. Yeah I liked that a lot so that was different. You know. I've I've finding this. Obviously I'm guessing where learn more about the loan Cyberman next episode but You know I found it really so it was kind of You know it's like when he when he come back he came back. Essentially he was traveling from you know through time and I. I don't know about you but I got kind of a terminator vibe from him. A little bit airy much. Kinda like Arnold Schwarzenegger arrives in S You know in the first terminator that you just you know. Because he's traveling through time and any any finally materializes and and then I thought was funny that you know what is searching for. He searching for liquid meadow yes so just like in kind of like Terminator Two Judgment Day. So just thought that was kind of funny. Look I think there was a couple of airy nine. Essentially Terminator knots there. I think so too. I would have been very surprised if there weren't but I thought that was interesting. You know and for whatever reason he's at you know this Siberia this this. This liquid metal is very important to the future and apparently the loan cyberman was assigned for coming back to get it to find it. Presumably after it had been hidden fraud by whom we don't know presumably as part of a plan to try to stop the Cyber Army and future and So there's there's a lot of time travel chest being played here and I'm obviously you know we're we're we're only getting these little tastes Senate it. We don't know quite what's going on yet but But I found to be very intriguing. Yea I'm hoping that They stick the landing on the next two episodes right I'm optimistic. They will But it is. They're they're setting up for a nice ending right And and they have been saying that You know nothing will be the same right you know. They're they're promising us some big reveals and you know the last time they did that. We got a new doctor. Yeah so I'm looking forward to this. I'm looking forward to it a lot now. One of the things I really liked. Was you know the doctor after? It's revealed that it's a Cyberman that had traveled back through time. The doctor you know starts showing off her anger and really makes this comment. You know she's to to her companions fan. You know she's saying like nobody follow because I don't want you guys ending up losing you know like you know becoming a Cyberman and there. Was that little hint of like you know kind of like what just happened to build not too long ago. Yes so I really liked the shoutout to bill potts. I guess I really appreciate it because obviously you know bill met a horrible fate. Thanks to the master one of them. And and You know became a Cyberman was converted and The doctor obviously Danny has right. Yeah and and and You know obviously has that has not been forgotten. I'd that's it yeah. I'm really glad so. Yeah the doctor I think is looking you know is kind of set up for some nice payback against the Cyberman and hope hopefully chip. No kind of Does you know take actually addresses that. Yes I agree. So we'll see but but I thought it was cool. Left THE LITTLE NOD TO BILL. And and that You know that her fate Obviously still resonates with the doctor would ask you now. Obviously because with Assad that you know the loan cyberman essentially being a Frankenstein metaphor here. Yes what did you make of Mary Shelley and you know trying to reach out to the to a shot. I thought it was good. I thought the interaction she had with him. I like the I liked the ending. Where you find out that To trick the Saruman The Doctor Forecasts. Shelley's death right so that it's it's so it feels like he's dead personality Shelley Persia and so now than Percy Shelley knows how his life is going to end right that's what they establishing. So he's living with that Yeah I thought it was it was. I thought it was subtle right but very clear that the cyberman definitely influenced her writing the novel. Yes you know. Yeah Yeah obviously It I thought it was carried off pretty white and also you like it gave you that little glimmer of hope that you know. Mary was actually making a connection with him. Yes and reaching his humanity a little bit and maybe that's what inspired her obviously because to write Frankenstein and where where the try to reach out to the monster. Yes because yes. They will often when you talk about it. The the the creature is not the true monster. It's Dr Frankenstein is the moisture from story. Yeah exactly so You know even though you you know the Frankenstein is is the doctor you know. So that's kind of like the the valuables because the monster isn't called Frankenstein. No it's the it's the monster so yes all right. A lot of people always make that confusion because of Hollywood and whatnot so yes absolutely all right. Anything else about a shot. No it was good and now we just have to find out what step two is of the plan absolutely and Hope it all works out so we'll see but Very you know very intriguing setup and You know a nice little Unexpected Wrap up to this episode from the episode that we kind of started off with thinking we were going to get and we got kind of something completely different. Yeah so I agree all right all right anything else about this episode. I don't have anything and you know. I think we covered it. So all right vessel. Favorite lines the episode. What's your favorite quotes? So a shod goes you appear courageous but your vital signs. Betray a heightened sense of anxiety and the doctor or as I like to call it Tuesday and so And the other one I had and then I'll let you go is gram going So party I lost them in the doctor. You had one job in Gramlich. Yeah made more challenging by his ability to walk through walls. Which by the way helped Dr figure out what's going on so even when grams not helping. He's helping what are you got Charles exactly so I took two more of mine. Yes so So I'll go with this. So the doctors big speech to the fan. Good all right so the doctor says if he is now who knows what damage that will have on future history words matter which has a writer. I love that. By the way absolute words matter one death one ripple and history will change in the blink. The future will not be the world you know the world you came from the world you were created in one exist. So neither will you. It's not just his life at stake. It's yours you WANNA sacrifice yourself for this. You want me to sacrifice you you WANNA call it do it. Now all of you. Yeah 'cause sometimes. This team structure isn't flat. It's mountainous with me at the summit and the stratosphere alone left to choose save. The poets save the universe. Watch people burn now or tomorrow. Sometimes I can't even win or even I can't win. Excuse me yeah great speech so glad you wrote it down And I think that is. It's a good summary of the problem. The doctor faces often so well done. Yeah and then you know some interesting connections in this one because throughout this season especially the doctors talk about that talked about that flat team structure. Yes and here. She's talking about that. The team structure isn't flat at times. Yes now and she realizes that yes. I'm kind of like we up here on my mountain and having to make all these big decisions and nobody else can help me with this absolutely. I also like you know. There's kind of like a little hero. Shout out you know the whole. Save the cheerleader. Save the world. I thought that too so I think somebody's a hero's fan to San. I think so too all right one more quote and move on or Wilma von. Yes and the doctor and yes as please tell me that was part of the plan and the doctor goes. Yes a last-minute imperfect all I'VE GOT PLAN SAVING. Shelly was step one. What steps to fix the mess created in step one? I love that I love that. That's that's so the doctor. So yes great. Great quote real one. So there's like step one step two and yes Dr. Lives all right. So what rating for this one? So I like this one a lot. I'm giving it eight out of ten creepy hands Lou. Yeah well I liked it more than you okay. I gave it nine out of ten. Modern premisses Nice. Very nice. Not Of course to Frankenstein. Yes which I have to say. Because I'm a big young Frankenstein Fan. Say absolutely you know Charles. Yes I love this episode. I in what if I wanted to explore classic who and find something similar. Do you have any suggestions why? Yes I do. Jessie I love. I love your cheesy segues by the way. Thank you so so everyone. We'RE GOING TO REVERSE THE CLARITY THIS TIME. Not Too far back. We're going to go because I was gonNA suggest ghost light from the Silvester McCoy era. But we kind of we've talked about that a couple times here on the podcast and not too long ago. We talked about it. So I'm going to recommend a different story okay Under recommend hide the ninth episode of series seven in two thousand thirteen. Okay written by Neo. Cross. This is of course during the eleventh doctor era. Where on a dark and stormy night? In November Nineteen Seventy four professor Alec Palmer and his assistant emigrating collect photographic evidence of a ghost in caliber. N- house professor. Professor Palmer is using Emma's strong psychic powers to create a connection that appears to summon a ghost. They are surprised by the arrival of the doctor and Clara who claim to be millet from Military Intelligence. Which of course is an oxymoron. Right The doctor and Clara find a location in the mansion. Which is noticeably colder than the rest of the House and the feel as if they're being watched the two race to wear the professor and Emma are waiting to see Palmer's equipment. Activating of its own accord. Msn says something crying out for help as the ghost appears in the dark hallway crying for help and the doctor quickly takes pictures of them before the house returns to normal then takes Clara in the Tartus to take photographs of their location at various points during Earth. Earth history from the pictures. The doctor comes to the conclusion that the ghost is actually a pioneer time traveler named. He'll take her in to Korean. So essentially we have a time traveler just kind of like the lone Cyberman that's just. The doctor prepares a device which includes a blue crystal from Matabeland three and To open the gateway and the doctor travels through where he finds. Eli in a vision of caliber in House that Emma has generated for them as a beacon at the same time a creature follows them and chases them into the house. He'll uses the harness to return to normal world but the strain causes Emma to collapse and the gateway closes trapping the doctor in the pocket universe and soon opens the gateway again where Clara in the Tartus briefly fly into the pocket universe allowing the Dr Jump and hang on before the creature can grab him the doctor and the hardest safely appear reappear in the normal world the end so if you like the haunting Avila. Dod Go back and watch hide Highly recommended I. I really enjoyed that one. We we haven't talked about that one yet here on the PODCAST. But when we do it's GonNa be a lot of fun. I think. Okay sounds great listener feedback so we have our usual suspects. Alright Holly you always take. When do I get to are you? Are you get to Cali? I'll take the other one. I'll take I will tear your. You're always so possessive. All right all right. So Holly writes. Hey Charles and Jessie man. What an episode in a different. Take on Shelley's Frankenstein. The whole thing with the Cyberman and the side. I think she means the Siberian at the actor. Who Played Byron did? An awesome job wasn't sure about who the monster was in the beginning. I thought it was the guy who hadn't slept in days. Yeah I kind of wondered about that. Too Right All in all a great spooky episode. I'll wrap it up here. Holly from Wisconsin. So Holly Thank you. Holly always great to hear from you and What's her feedback number two? So we have David. Proctor says good episode. I can see. We are building into the finale. Which is making me anticipate a couple of shows. My wife saw the setting of this one and immediately went to this famous night that resulted in to the most iconic English language. Books Frankenstein and Dracula. My wife also made the comment that this season is getting preachy. I have to agree but I don't think it's inappropriate. I also tend to think. That watchers have dr who are not really the ones needing to hear the preaching. It is good to get the message out there. I am reading this nine out of ten missing pieces of armor. Very Nice David. I hope the gap to the next season isn't as long as the last. I think we have bad news for you but I will enjoy following. Y'All journey through other. Who Thinks David proctor? Yeah thank you David You know the I you know going from what I've seen on the on the interwebs. I think there are unfortunately a lot of people that could use the preaching absolutely and I don't think I don't think it's quite penetrating the void if you follow him at draft so I get why doctor. Who Does I think it should be done more subtly? Yeah so so I kind of A. I can respect that criticism. I think that sometimes it does fill a little bit like you know. We're being hit over the head a little too much as opposed to just kind of making the point in you know in a kind of an indirect way that makes you think so. I kinda I appreciate that but This story in particular hunting a veal at dod. I don't think that was preachy at all. So I'm not sure why You know maybe before this episode. Maybe your wife making that comment but not about this particular episode. I don't think I agree. Yeah so anyway but yeah just thanks so much writing in. We always love to hear from you. David and we love hearing from Holly. We'd love to hear from other people to Charles. If they want to give us feedback. How can they priests tell me? You are all kinds of adorable today. All right So everybody's WanNa be like Holly David and please do drop us a line. Next stop everywhere. S G at gmail.com g mail or You know next up everywhere for SM for Southgate Media Group and Djamil Dot Com on twitter at next up S. N. G. ON TWITTER FACEBOOK next. Stop everywhere the doctor who podcast or on instagram. At next stop everywhere podcast and I noticed that Hans grappa kind of Started following us on the instagram. So Hi Han. I did notice you out. There followed her back. Of course so because that's awesome and so yeah you want to be like Hanukkah. Follow us on the instead and everywhere else Jesse whereabout you. Well how about you? Where can they reach you? Well you can find me on twitter at Jesse Jackson DFW. And I'm on facebook as well. You can find me Jesse Jackson in Lewisville Texas. You can hear me talk Other TV shows with Charles on the fan of Zone podcast We have covered We just covered watchmen. And so if you're catching up that on demand you can see us there. We are debating on what we're going to cover next Let's say you just splurge than got DC universe direct and. You're doing some ketchup. There is a wonderful podcast called Titan. Talk that Charles. And I have covered both seasons of the titans and doom patrol. That will be kicking off soon when doom drill comes back. And you can also hear me onset lessening Bruce Bruce Springsteen podcast where I talked to Bruce springsteen and other musical fans from around the world about the power of rock and Roll Charles. How about you Nice As for me of course that Charles skaggs on twitter natural skaggs on Instagram facebook? Of course Charles skaggs Elliot. Ohio and my blog. Geeky things come on you. Oh Damn good coffee in Hot. I talk about all the stuff. We're talking about here in next up everywhere you doctor. Who Torchwood you Sarah? Jane Adventures all kinds of comic books. Sign News these are the pockets for southgate media including the aforementioned Titan. Talk that titans podcast. Make sure you go for the titans. Podcasts is otherwise you'll end up by searching for a Tennessee. Titans podcast yes absolutely So make sure you get the right time and talk and also The Phantom Zone PODCAST THAT JESSE. Also mentioned and Ghost where the twin peaks podcast that ideal Zanskar housewife Cardis Chris. Brown we talk about all things twin peaks David Lynch et Cetera et CETERA and While I'm thinking about Zan just WanNa let everybody know who doesn't know that. Zan got through her lady surgery just fine. Hashtag Lady Surgery. And she's doing great she's recuperating at home and They've got like with. Some you know. Nice opioids at the ready for pain management but Hopefully hopefully she won't need them but but she's doing well and so All our our thoughts recovery and and I also I WanNa something rather tragic happened this past week since our last podcast last few days. Really I wanna Kinda give it quit. Sending our thoughts out to lead Leonard Special Guest Companion Lee Leonard. Sadly for those who don't know already His girlfriend of four years Carrie Leigh Kepler. Took her own life. Oh no and So I obviously feel very horrible for Lee Such a tragedy You know this is the love of his life for the last four years and and there's a LE- posted a link to a gofundme page to help out carries family with their burial costs so So I shared this on our Next up everywhere facebook page. Good so if you're someone that would consider donating. Please check that out or reach out to lead directly. I don't care how just you know as long as it happens. Obviously I'm sure he would appreciate. I'm sure Carries family would appreciate that But I just want to express our deepest sympathies and And it's obviously something that's you know. It's rather horrible but but so everybody Please keep leading your thoughts. Let him know that he's not alone and Just know the Li if you're listening that we're thinking about you absolutely and in please please is your obviously part of the next stop everywhere fan. Yes and if you are feeling lost Reach out to someone I know. That's it that sounds cliche but the really is right We you know we. We need each of us here right and and we just hate to hear someone hurting that much. And and just you're you're part of the family and in whatever we can do let us know. Lee exactly so You know it's obviously something very tragic and yeah just your heart goes out to leave right now all right yes all right a more upbeat note. Guess it's very hard to transition from that so bear with all right so next time next. Stop everywhere we're GONNA talk ascension of the Cyberman which is start one at the two part series twelve finale nine and this one the aftermath of the Great War. Ooh The doctor and her friends arrive in the far future intent on protecting the last of the human race from the deadly Cyberman. Nice but in the face of such a relentless enemy has the doctor put her best friends at risk what terrors lie hiding in the depths of space. And what is Co Sharma's? Okay now seriously. What is Co Sharma's? Because I have no idea what that is. I do not know either but hopefully we'll find out next week so everybody Yeah thank you so much for listening Like I said. Please check out these Go Fund me link on other shared and next up wears page and Come on back. You know we really appreciate you guys listening. We obviously appreciate it. Holly mackin David Zan of course and and You know o end a quick Karen. Lindsey update her husband. Sean is home from the hospital guests. Great so great news there so everybody you know if keep sharing those positive vibes You know as I'm sure it's very difficult these days but but keeps sending those positive vibes out there and and 'cause we're all one big happy doctor who family here and We just don't we appreciate you all you guys so come on back next time essentially Cyberman and we'll see you next time right here next. Stop everywhere doctor. Who podcast. Good-bye everybody goodbye?

Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley Cyberman Shelley Lord Byron Roll Charles Ryan Mary The Loan Cyberman Graham Jesse Jackson Percy shelley Holly David Jesse Claire Yeah Cardis Chris Charles skaggs Writer maxine Alderson Dr Frankenstein David proctor
163  The Problem That Has No Name: Feminist Literature

Miss Information: A Trivia Podcast

53:15 min | Last month

163 The Problem That Has No Name: Feminist Literature

"Hello and welcome to misinformation Trivia, podcasts for ladies and gents Love Cool Trivia and sticking it to annoying teams of pop quiz. Time Lauren and I'm Julie Julia I back in the New York grew. Part of the song I need. To. Yeah back we. So if you've been listening to lately, you'll realize that we recorded a lot of episodes. Around the springtime we had to take take a little bit of time off this summer. For various reasons. Sure. Yeah. I had to watch a lot of Cougar town. Yes. that was important. What else happened the Filler I became a person that likes caramel and Cheddar popcorn mixed. I didn't know that I was one of those people I is the first time here. Yes. There's that. Are you know I know there's another human in my house now yes you have very cute. But requires a lot of attention. Yes for those of you who don't know Julia had a baby. And we didn't miss it. We didn't talk about it all. So it's not like you're like, oh no, they said secret clues then we had to piece together and no no. Was Not mentioned, but now we have a new little Miss Little Mesh Information. Yup. Her name is eleanor. She's very cute. She's very cute. She's asleep right now which is why we're able to this. Yeah. There's going to be a lot of maneuvering around her particular as well, and Steve has offered to come over to be punky steer fish and hold her and warm her up and put her to sleep while while while we do the business of this our business. So yeah, many congratulations to Julia. And I'm very excited to be. An aunt although I've insisted that my name is just Lauren. Like on key Steve and Lauren are. Going to be major envisages. Has Three ints Lauren. Yeah. So I'm just I called just Lord. Wow okay. It's not gonna be confusing it all. Now she can come up with the nickname for me I don't care. Whatever whatever? Yes. Super. So we're recording again. We're finally back together. It's Great It feels good I feel good. It was nice to do research again some strange reason was kind of like this feels nice. After Eight weeks of just holding a baby. My hands forgot how to type I actually did struggle make really for this episode yeah. Mo Modern Practice Well hopefully. It'll feel like riding a bike. Yeah, exactly. Well, I? mean we met a smoke to it. Yeah. Sure. Let's just jump right in. It's your episode exactly this. So I've been reading a lot of a lot of like this little trailblazer You can be anything books to my eight week old child in realized that I. Actually, know a lot about feminist literature. To. Reading some of these books to her that I figured I should know and do they make reference to eight children SPA. Little Betty Freidan she. Very cute little cartoon I love Yeah. So I realized that this would be a great topic for us to cover on this podcast because. No shaded Alta Trivia podcast but I don't think any of them are going to cover this. Oh, you don't think are triviality brothers. Did it a whole episode? High brothers I don't think our brothers. Are. GonNa do a feminist as the embassy episode. You know they could surprises. Yeah. That's true. They've surprised us in the past that they were going to do a whole episode on seminal feminist texts which actually I think about it shouldn't use the word seminal it goes against everything about. Ova. Pazder no. Know. How it legally blonde when they're like, I I got the school to change the name semester to over Sir that's what I think of now that's very good. Yeah. We'll. We'll figure it out seminal it'll be. Over over mole. Workshops. Grab Initiative. Fine. Yeah so this week from me here getting the problem that has no name. Feminist literature. All right. If we were going to cover just like feminism assure general, we would be here. Forever I'm sure there's already a podcast that that covers that folks I'm sure. So we're not trying to reinvent the wheel here. No. Quick definition. Feminism is a range of social movements, political movements in ideologies that aim to define establish in achieve the political economic, personal and social equality of the sexes. Feminism incorporates the position that society's prioritize the male point of view and that women are treated unjustly within those societies Charles for Ya who is a utopian socialist in French philosopher. He's the one that's credited with having coined the word FEMA KNEES MMA in. Thirty seven. So, modern Western, feminist history is conventionally split into three time periods or waves. So you'll typically hear them referred to as that Each of them has slightly different aims based on the prior progress that was made during the wave before. I wave feminism is the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries that was focused on overturning legal inequalities, particularly addressing issues of women's suffrage. Second wave feminism is the nineteen sixty s and nineteen eighties that broaden the debate to include cultural inequalities gender norms in the role of women in society, and then third wave feminism. The nineteen ninety s to the thousands that refers to the diverse strains of feminist activity. So third wavers are see this as a continuation of the second wave in also as a response to the perceived failures out of the way before it. So I guess we're right outside third wave right now I think we're moving into the fourth wave interesting, which can't be defined until after it's passed exactly exactly a you. Hey I know my history man you know what I'm talking about or woman. Watch out I should say I WANNA point out as part of that definition. feminism is not women are better than men no absolutely not and it's still maintains to this day. It's about Equality Ackley. So exactly that's all I wanted to point. For our listeners great segue. Lauren. So seminaries literature, it can be fiction or nonfiction or drama or poetry that supports the feminine schools of establishing, defining and defending equal civil, political, economic, and social rights for women. So we're GONNA. Cover. Ten important feminist. Pieces of. Very excited that everyone should know. Great and we'll go in chronological order for me So the first we're GONNA talk about is a vindication of the rights of woman with strictures on political and moral subjects by. One, craft from seventeen ninety two. So this is one of the earliest works of feminist philosophy it was published in the United Kingdom Mary wollstonecraft responded to th century educational and political theorist who believe that women should not receive a rational education. It was believed at the time that women were too susceptible to sensibility and too fragile to be able to think clearly. So not able to be. The recipient of a rational education. Sure. Sure. Sure. So craft argued that women's education should match their position in society in that they are essential to the nation because they raise its children and could act as respected companions to their husbands then yeah So Wall Street, maintain that women are human beings deserving of the same fundamental rights as men and that treating them as ornaments or property for men undermines the moral foundations, a society which how about that you think You'd think that people any rational person would be like, yeah. That makes sense treat women as human beings. Sure. But the fact that there was such vitriol against this concept is like my to me but it was seventeen, ninety two that was like, yeah. Put it into writing and people are like. Dr. So her work had significant impact on advocates for women's rights in the nineteenth century particularly, the eighteen forty eight Seneca falls convention that produce the Declaration of sentiments which laid out the aims of the suffragette movement. In the United States Mary Wilson Craft her name might be familiar. She is the mother of Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley. And she actually died eleven days after giving birth to Mary wollstonecraft shelley. So Mary wollstonecraft was like she was this great feminist philosopher great writer, her husband was super. Supportive. And she died in childbirth which. was killed a lot of women. Yeah. Septicemia man because men who were only allowed to be doctors. Refuse to treat women because of all of their naughty bits, nobody washed their hands. Oh Yeah. Nobody we should really point out. Yes. No one wash their hands that probably cost a lot of issues too. So we're jumping ahead into the twentieth century second, we're GONNA talk about a room of one's own by. Virginia. Woolf. was published in one thousand, twenty nine. So that's an extended essay that was first published in September nineteen twenty nine it's based on two lectures that Virginia Woolf delivered in October nineteen. Twenty. Eight and Newnham College and Girton College which or the women's colleges at the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom so the. Title of the Essay Remove Unsown comes from Woolf's conception that quote A. Woman must have money and a room of her own if she is to write fiction So Wolf's father believed that only the boys of their family should be sent to school and delivering the lectures shout lined in this essay Wolf spoke to women who had the opportunity to learn in a formal setting there at the college like the lucky you are. she also talks were audience to have them. The importance of their education in warning them of the precariousness of their position in society there's one famous section of the sesay where she invents a fictional character named Judith Shakespeare who would have been the sister of William Shakespeare in the society. To illustrate a woman with Shakespeare's gifts would have been denied the opportunity to actually develop them. So if you hear the term if you if you hear a A reference to Jewish Shakespeare, they're talking about room woman's own. Also Virginia Woolf was a member of the Bloomsbury group that's another big writing club. So new talk about like Dorothy Parker worth now gone quick. Roundtable we talk about Virginia Woolf, with her bloomsbury group and Wolf is also best known for her novels, Mrs Dalloway and to the Lighthouse Nice. So that's what you I'll Sushi no her for. Nineteen nine the second sex by Simone de Beauvoir and this. was published originally French lose em six it is often cited. Dirtier. DCM Six. Is often regarded as major work of feminist philosophy, and it's the starting point of second wave feminism. So she published this work in two volumes The I was called facts and myths, and the second was lived experience or in French fit meat or also experience with sue. And in the first volume, she asks the reader. One is woman arguing that man is considered the default and woman is considered the other. So that woman is the second class there I see. Yeah. So her work also contains the famous line quote one is not born a woman but becomes one and you should also know that Simonova Davar it was the lifelong partner of pulsar trial, the essential est so they're often really linked. So again in your your key phrases here, our partner of SAR tra-. It's French what is woman Can you imagine how an believe and they're both incredible writers who have done a lot of work for two to like further our culture just In general worldwide but can you imagine how? Just So boring they must have been as a couple like if you go out to dinner with them, you're like Oh. God Are we can? We just talk about something fun not? Not like existential ISM released. Why did did it have a name? What should we call it? Is it just? Like please just look guys. Can we just? Go. We've been here for hours later. But no, they've done great work but they were probably infuriating. Just saying. Back, to America, sure we have the feminine Mystique by Betty Friedan published in nineteen sixty three. So the Feminine Mystique is widely credited with sparking the beginning of second feminism in the United States. In nineteen fifty seven Freidan was asked to conduct a survey of her former Smith College classmates for their fifteenth anniversary reunion and the results where she found that many of them were unhappy with their lives as housewives, and this prompted her to conduct interviews with other suburban housewives and do her own research on advertising media psychology. So this book begins with an introduction describing what freedom called the problem that has no name, the widespread unhappiness of women in the nineteen fifties early nineteen sixties. So fredin challenge, the widely shared belief that. Fulfillment as a woman had only one definition for American women after Nineteen forty-nine as the quote housewife mother and the Phrase Feminine Mystique was created by freedom to show the assumptions that women would be fulfilled from their housework marriage sexual lives and children, and it was said that women who were actually feminine should not have wanted to work or get an education or have any political opinions. So fredin wanted to prove that women were unsatisfied. Bet could not voice their feelings. She advocated for women to seek education and work outside their home. Freidan was also one of the founders of the National Organization for women also now. Yes. Now, when do we want equality now? Exactly. Great. If years later, we get the female Eunuch, by Germaine Greer was published in Nineteen seventy. So, Greece thesis is that the traditional suburban consumerist Represses women sexually and that this devitalized. Renders them. As UNIX. She's also from Australia that seems to be the clue word that you get when it's Germaine greer question. Trillion feminist. So in sections titled Body Soul Love and Hate Grier examines historical definitions of women's perception of self and uses a premise of imposed limitations to critique modern consumer societies, as well as female normality and masculine shaping of stereotypes. Quoting the world has lost its soul and I my sex greer argued that men hate women though the latter do not realize this are taught to hate themselves and change had to come about by the way of revolution not evolution and that women should get to know and come to accept their own bodies. That's great. I love that. It, it got a little controversial some of some of her talking about getting to know your body's was a little little woo hoo I for some people sure time. Yeah. But I mean, this was what you said. Nine hundred, seventy, eight, hundred, seventy. Yeah. It's still you know people are starting to I mean it wasn't totally the free love movement like everyone got on. You know. You know. Jerry angrier familiar. Okay Nineteen eighty-one we have any woman black women and feminism by Bell Hooks. So. She was born Gloria Jean. Watkins but is better known by her pen name Bell Hooks, which is all lower case she's an American author professor feminist and social activist. The name Bell Hooks is borrowed from her maternal great grandmother who was Bell Blair Hooks? So this book, a woman is titled After Singer Truths Famous a woman speech was at the Seneca Falls Convention. Hooking Zemin's the effect of racism and sexism on Black Women, the civil rights movement and feminist movements from suffrage up through the nineteen seventies she argued that the convergence of sexism and racism during slavery contributed to black women having the lowest status and worse conditions of any group in American society. So for example, white female abolitionists and suffragettes were often more comfortable being around black male abolitionists like Frederick Douglass while segregationists and stereotypes of the black female immorality caused protests whenever black women spoke interesting. Yes So hooks also said that the feminist movement was a largely white middle and upper class affair in a did not articulate the needs of poor and non white women reinforcing sexism, racism and classism. She suggested that this explains the low numbers of black woman who participated in the feminist movement in the nineteen seventies, and since its publication woman has been critically acclaimed as groundbreaking in the study of feminist theory for discussing the correlation between the history of oppression that black women have faced in the United States and its lingering effects in modern society Bell Hooks is frequently cited as having provided the bus solution to the difficulty of defining something as diverse as feminism addressing the problem that if feminism can mean everything that it means nothing so. To what is feminism is quote feminism is a movement to end sexism, sexist exploitation and oppression. Rare that's the definition I. Love it great and I would say this is like the beginning of say intersectional feminism right like early eighty s this when we're getting into like not everybody's experience as a woman is the same an to assume that everyone has the same experiences like a white upper middle class woman evidently means that you are excluding a lot of women who have different experiences and Maine. Have other needs on their way toward equality. Louis. Your God. For lectures can talk right off the cuff I don't even have a written down in front of me anyway. Please continue Julia of course that was. When they you might be interested in The beauty myth by Nio. Me? Wolf. Oh. Yeah. So the basic premise is that as the social power and prominence of women have increased the pressure they feel to adhere to unrealistic social standards of physical beauty has also grown stronger because of commercial influence on the mass media. So this pressure leads to unhealthy behavior by women and a preoccupation with appearance in both sexes and Wolf argues that societal contracts of beauty punish women who cannot attain them. Infuriating like, yes. Commercials are I bad to us? Yeah. Everything's bad to us. It's amazing and now it's being couched in like you go girl you know like all bodies are beautiful. See I have cellulite whole size six like. They make space. Yeah SPANDEX and SPANKS and Pulling up our. Measuring. Although if we were actually, you'd hear a lot more grunting and groaning. Yeah. Exactly. Anyway. Year later, we get backlash the undeclared war against the American women by Susan Faludi and Nineteen ninety-one. So she argued that the nineteen eighties actually saw a backlash against feminism especially due to the spread of negative stereotypes against career minded women fully was inspired to write backlash after investigating the statistics behind a nineteen eighty-six. Newsweek cover story that reported on a study detailing the bleak marital prospects for single educated career woman. But this study used faulty statistics. So it was just like blew up. This is like a stereotype that was going around. That was actually not real at all and kind of. At the risk of being very. Twenty twenty, it was fake. News. Yeah. So faludi began to examine other sensationalized stories about women that were being promoted by the media, and the main premise of this book is that there are two overarching media messages, regarding feminism's gains for women since the nineteen eighties. So I, the feminist pfeiffer free equality has largely been one, and now that women have the equality, they have never been so miserable obviously. Yeah and to by reporting statistically unsupported ideas of how feminism has negatively affected women. The media has helped to create a backlash that encourages women to reject the gains and the struggle for Real. So reports of things like the man shortage and infertility epidemic again, female burn out are not the actual conditions of women's lives but are false images portrayed by the media popular culture and advertising which the more I read the more I'm like. Media and advertising. Yeah are terrible. Yeah. It's the idea of like a girl can have it all when it's like, no, you can't and the fact that women are being told like under the guise of feminism, you can have it all when in fact. You can and neither can a man you know like it's just you're getting judged by everybody left right and center if you if you opted to follow your career and in one thousand, nine, hundred as you found yourself in your forties without a man oh no. How terrible But if you decided to go another route and you know accept this traditional of nuclear family type thing than you were like going against everything that your mother fought for. You know? Yeah you can't win not. There's no winning now. Yeah. So that's backlash the undeclared war against American women by Susan. Faludi. And she also won like Pulitzer Prize for some other reporting that she did but she's she's a cool journalist. Cool. All. Right one that I'm sure we all heard of when we're in our liberal arts colleges. The Vagina monologues of course even slur was written in Nineteen ninety-six. So if you Ha- if you're unfamiliar, it's an episodic play that was written by ensler which developed and premiered off off Broadway, and then it was off Broadway and then you know went everywhere in Nineteen ninety-six. So the play explores both consensual and nonconsensual sexual experiences body image reproduction menstruation sex work in a variety of other topics through the eyes of women with various ages, races, sexualities, and other differences So this play has been staged internationally There was a television version featuring and slur that was produced by HBO in One Thousand Nine Hundred Eighty Ensler and others. A producer of her westside theatre production. They launched vide, which is a global nonprofit movement that has raised more than one hundred billion dollars for groups working to end violence against women and girls anti-violence through benefits of the Vagina Monologues the Vian v Day stands for Victory Valentine, and Regina of course. Yeah. When I was in College Dickinson Community Theater which was our rival theatre. Group. I was did you guys like the? Jets and sharks thing don't even worry about it but we were in Hinman College. Community Theater and they did at Dickinson College, Community Theater we had like a friendly rivalry going on. But they always got the vagina monologues that they had laid claim to that nearly thousands like every college was putting it on. Valentine's Day and then they would raise money. They'll tickets and raise money for this vide. Zach nonprofit. So I've seen the vagina monologues. Times yeah. I mean everybody should everybody should see at once. Absolutely. It's it holds up. There are some like there's some parts that you're like okay but. It's very theater. Theater experience. So you're going to get like the typical like theatrical monologues quality to it but it it has a great message in it does give a wide variety of experiences. Across time and space and all that fun stuff. So yes, I would highly recommend it i. don't need to see it again. I think I got the mess. And then actually, I only have one more wanted to talk about how? Yeah. We've breeze through this blowing through. This is called we should all be feminists and it's by. Chima Monda and goes the ITCHY. She is Nigerian and I had to listen to several times how to pronounce her name but I did I did. Chima Manga and goes the ADITI, two, thousand fourteen, we should all be feminists. So this is a book length essay about the definition of feminism for the twenty, th century. So it was adapted from a D. She's two thousand twelve Ted ex talk of the same name she I delivered it at Ted ex Houston in London and the talk has been viewed online more than six million times so. while. Feminism advocates for equity and equality between men and women and all aspects of life. The fiercest pros irs of women's liberation believed that feminism is a social movement that focuses on reversing generals and making men inferior. Empowering women is not equivalent to taking away opportunities for men. So teaching the community, you have equal respect for women creates a successful environment and encouraging people to become feminists showed their minds away from cultural and social constructs that limit the understanding of gender sexuality and the roles that allow men and women to become who they want to be without restrictions. Yeah. Because equality it's not a pie. If someone else takes a big piece, it doesn't mean that's less pie for you. It is infinite pie everyone gets pie everyone gets the same amount of pie and it's enough. That's what quality is. INFINITE PIE INFINITE PIE everybody The other thing you should know about this is part of her speech is featured in beyond says twenty thirteen Song Astra Gastric Astra. Flawless. Yes. It's so good and her voice is so. Rich Harden her lear yes. Lyrical Nigerian accent. She's just a wonderful speaker. She has a lot of power and the I think beyond say samples like a significant but I think it's like a full like she gets writing credit but yeah. It's very good So. That was great. Those ten works of feminist literature that you all should know and you know if you're listening to this podcast I feel like you wanted to, you want to wanted to know this I'm telling you. You wanted to know this and guess what now you know. So congratulations. so that was feminism the problem without a name. Quits night it's called some problems that do have. Okay a quiz on famous mathematical philosophical problems are theorems I eight Oh you you. You got every question right last. So feel so long ago. It's very funny. My favorite part is when you? That hyperventilating into the Mike I got so many can I tell you? We got so many tweets from people who are so kind guys. Thank you so much was like congratulations Florida or something. Sky Is. So Nice now. Josh. Thank you know that he had to cut a lot. Out of that Oh, my God. Yeah I did I was. Shot Up. There's a lot be screaming and breathing into the microphone. Yeah, I. Bet he had to that because I was like I really got that really quickly when I was listening to it again but I did not did take me a very long time. Anyway. Yes. Please hit this quiz of. This I I have a lot of faith in you. Oh. Okay. Better you don't you. Don't be scared even though this is a quiz on famous mathematical or philosophical problems with your arms. Question One. A CERTAIN ETHICS THOUGHT EXPERIMENT FIRST PROPOSED BY PHILIPPA FOOT forces the subject to decide whether they ought to sacrifice one person to save a larger number of people usually five workers on a set of tracks by what two-word term is the scenario best known. Question to the seven bridges of Koenigsberg is abstract mathematical problem that proposed a walk through the city of Koenigsberg Prussia that would cross each of the city's seven bridges once and only once it was proven by which prolific Swiss mathematician with two numbers named after him to have no solution. Question Three. Hint this one came up a Geek Bowl twenty eighteen. In mathematics a certain theorem states that given any separation of a plane into contiguous regions producing a map, no more than how many colors are required to color the regions of the map so that no two adjacent regions have the same color. Question for Andy defraying might agree a standard example in game theory called what shows white to individuals might not cooperate even if it appears that it is in their best interests to do so. Question Five in two thousand, the Clay Mathematics Institute stated seven unsolved math problems for which they have offered. One million dollars to anyone who discovers a solution what is the collective name of these unsolved problems? Question six I formulated in nineteen thirty and still pedaled today as a benchmark for optimization methods. A popular computational math problem asks given a set of cities and distance between every pair of cities. What is the shortest possible route that every city exactly once and returns to the starting point? Multiple choice is the scenario popularly called a the traveling salesman problem be the American Airlines problem see the pump problem or d the ringling brothers problem. Question seven do not put dig cart before the. Horse. which French mathematicians last Theorem was created in sixteen, thirty seven and finally proved in nineteen ninety five. Questioning the famous Monty Hall problem is a scenario in which you are on a game show with the option of choosing one three doors in order to win a car and given the chance to change your first choice. Should you from what long running game show does this problem derive? This might prove why family guys still making new episodes a certain mathematical theorem states that a certain living thing hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type any given text such as the complete works of William Shakespeare what organism fills in this definition giving the theorem, its name. And finally question ten. Name the twenty fourteen song title from these lyrics. Now. We've got problems and I don't think we can solve them. You made a really deep cut. We'll give you about a minute to think and we'll be back with your answers. Bad. I did know a couple of these. Not, all of them. I'm feeling pretty good. Feeling all right I'm not gonNA look like a total idiot. So, this is no speeches quiz. Yeah. Or world religion. Yeah that. APOLOGIZE FOR A certain ethics thought experiment first proposed by Felipe, afoot forces the subject to decide whether they ought to sacrifice one person to save a larger number of people. Usually five workers on a set of tracks by what to word term is the scenario best known is this the trolley problem is the trolley. Play. So. If you're not familiar with it now. You're riding a trolley that's barreling toward five people on the tracks in doing nothing will result in the deaths of all. Alternatively you could pull the lever diverting the vehicle to another set of tracks, which will kill one person instead of five. So the experiment examines two important ethical theories. So there's Hewlett utilitarianism that's taking the action that results in the greatest amount of good for the largest number of people or Deontology, which is trying to do as much good as possible though the actions you take to get there matter more than the actual results. So yes, there are there's a really great episode of the Good yes where. He. If they physically act out this problem. Yeah. It's a very good. Question to. The seven bridges of Koenigsberg is an abstract mathematical problem that proposed a walk in the city of Koenigsberg, Prussia that would cross each of the seven bridges once and only once it was proven by which prolific Swiss mathematician with two numbers named after him to have no solution. To numbers named after him can. This'll be not this will not be the first time or the last time I say this I do not know enough mathematicians. Top of my head So you said Swiss. So he probably has a French name. To numbers is he louis prime. Good is isn't that good? Let's. Is it no. No. What's swap rationale? Yeah I. I don't. My guess is going to be Louis Prime Okay or pre May. This is a great guest This guy you should you should know him his name is Leonard Oiler e You L. E. R. I didn't know that. So that was pressed. Oh. So is the only mathematician to have two numbers named after him the important oilers number and calculus, which is. E lower case E. IT's approximately equal to two point seven, one, eight, two, eight. Keep going but I don't WanNa embarrass anybody especially myself. Also. The oiler Mash aronie constant, which is gamma. So looks like looks like kind of like a lower case Y.. Oh. It's It's sometimes referred to just as oilers constant, and that is approximately full to zero point five, seven, seven to one So Anyway, Swiss mathematician is supposed to like you're supposed to remember this guy, he's important Guy Oiler So this math problem I actually I came across it like when I was working on. In a past life when I worked on standardized assessment test race was like. A problem, they drew a picture of to show you that this was an impossible problem. So the city of Koenigsberg Prussia, it's now Kaliningrad Russia. It was set on both sides of the Priego River and included two large islands that were connected to each other our to the to mainland portions of the city by seven bridges. So you can. Do. Did a little illustration of the peninsula in the island's and showed you the bridges and you're supposed to say. See how you couldn't just cross each bridge once and only once and still end up yeah. Back where you were supposed to be so So it was proposed and this problem has a negative resolution. That's what they call when they when they said it has no solution it's a negative resolution and it actually lead the foundations of graph theory. So those kind of like a big thing. So it is a problem that has come up Learner League before Oh. Okay. So you know so seven bridges Koenigsberg proven by Leonard oiler alright. Gratiot. Questions. This one came up Geek Bowl in two thousand eighteen. In mathematics a certain theorem states that given any separation of a plane into contiguous regions producing a map, no more than how many colors are required to color the regions of the map so that no two adjacent regions have the same color. I I have a distinct memory of steve like coloring in different portions of like a fake map that he didn't. Really. Get a sense of it. I think if I remember correctly the answers four. Called the four color theorem perfect and it was also the first major there to be proved using a computer. Oh, hey, that's interesting. It's interesting. Math score and league is abysmal. Odd this is another reason I want to. Thank you. Thank you. Question for Andy Do free might agree a standard example in game three called what? Why to individuals might not cooperate even if it appears that it is in their best interests to do. So is it like the Shashank Theory or the? Prisoner Dilemma Preserve Salama Prisoners Love. I didn't know. So one version of the of the dilemma to members of a criminal gang arrested and imprisoned each prisoner is in solitary confinement with no way to communicate with the other. So the prosecutors lack sufficient evidence to convict the pair on the principal charged, but they have enough to convict both on a lesser charge. So simultaneously, the prosecutors would offer each prisoner a bargain. So they're given the opportunity either to betray the other by testifying that the other committed the crime or they could cooperate with. The other remaining silent in is implied that the prisoners will have no opportunity to reward or punish their partner other than the prison sentences they get, and that their decision would not affect the reputation in the future. But because betraying a partner offers a greater reward than cooperating with them, all purely rational self interested prisoners will betray the other. Of course, the only possible outcome for two purely rational prisoners is for them to betray each other exactly the prisoner's dilemma and honestly I watch enough. Investigation discovery to know that that happens more of. Yeah, all the all the time. Question Five into thousand the Clay Mathematics Institute stated seven unsolved math problems for which they have offered one million dollars to anyone who discovers a solution what is the collective name of these unsolved problems? I feel like I've come across this answer before in the past. I don't know. Is it like? The meaning of life questions are like the Duke University, meaning of Life Math. Why am I think of Duke University? I clearly don't know anything what. This. All right. The answer is the Millennium Prize problem. So there are there were seven of them. Okay. Now, there's only six that are unsolved. Okay. So only one is in twenty years. To date the. Millennium Problems have been solved is the wrong Carre conjecture which was solved in two thousand and three by the Russian mathematician. Grigori Perelman and he declined the prize money. What why would you do that? One million dollars if you solve this math problem? This might have up when we had. When Eric was on during our math Lord. Solve one of the all this sound familiar. Like Mike Tyson after prove how we got there like what if the answer is just like to? Yeah. So just the names of the other problems than have not yet to be solved the Birch and Swinnerton Dyer conjecture, the Hodge conjecture, the navy strokes existence and smoothness peeve versus N.. P. Problem the Reimann hypothesis and the Yang Mills existence and mass gap these salvo. Take a stab everybody. You'll like it Yup the the Millennium Prize problems. Early, there's still million dollars, USO? So six million. For the one you get more money yes. It's a million dollars per puzzle. I can't believe that guy turned down how dumb are you? Anyway anyway. For Math or whatever all right questions. I formulated in nineteen thirty in still pedaled today as a benchmark for optimization methods. A popular computational math problem asks given a set of cities and distance between every pair of cities. What is the shortest possible route that visits every city exactly once and returns to the starting point multiple choice is this scenario popularly called a the traveling salesman problem be the American Airlines problem see the pub crawl problem or d the ringling brothers problem. Considering that it's nine hundred thirty I'm going to say a traveling salesman problem. The travelers problem you are correct. Great job. Thanks. All right. Question seven do not put descartes before the Horse, which French mathematicians last theorem was created in sixteen, thirty seven and finally proved in nineteen, ninety five. Say French mathematician gets. WHO's not? Descartes not dig out damn. Again I really don't know a lot of mathematicians. French names. What about. WHAT ABOUT CAMUS He's a philosopher he's not a mathematician the only French person created in sixteen thirty set. No, forget it. He wrote a stranger. Louis Prime. It's good potato. Patrice's. This name is peered affirmat-. I don't know who that is not. FERMAT's last theorem in number theory is very important. It's states that no three positive integer. ABMC. Satisfy the equation aid to the nth plus B. to the nth equal see to the Nth for any integer value of N. that's greater than two. It is among the most notable theorems in the history of mathematics and prior to its proof it was in the Guinness Book of World Records as the most difficult mathematical problem in part because the Theorem has the largest number of unsuccessful proofs. So the most this problem had the most people try to solve it and my God most time on it and the most way that you're like, nope, it's not those number. No, it's not this number. Three hundred, Fifty, eight years of. Of Effort by mathematicians, the first successful proof was released in nineteen ninety four by Andrew Wiles, and it was formally published in nineteen ninety-five. Amazing. So for what is best known for his last Theorem in number three also fermat's principle for light propagation. Latte one but you know formats last theorem, boom boom boom. Great know that. Right Question Eight, the famous Monty Hall problem is a scenario in which you are on a game show with the option of choosing one of three doors in order to win a car and given the chance to change your first choice. Should you from what long running game show does this problem derived? Is this let's make a deal you are correct. Yes. So here's the puzzle you're given. The choice of three doors behind one is a car behind the other two doors are goats. You pick a door, say number one and the host who knows what's behind the doors opens another door say door number three, which has a good behind it. He then says you do you want to change your pick two door number two so is it to your advantage to switch your choice So the problem is a paradox of the rid a coal type because the correct choice that one should switch doors is so counterintuitive that might seem absurd but it is actually true so you should always. Pick again if given the choice yes. All right great. Yep. Question Nine. This might prove why family guys still making new episodes. A certain mathematical theorems states that a certain living thing hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time while almost surely type any given text such as the complete works of William Shakespeare. What organism fills in this definition giving the Theorem, its name, those are monkeys. Yes. This is called the Infinite Monkey Kerem So in this context, almost surely is a mathematical term with precise meaning and the monkey is not an actual monkey, a metaphor for an abstract device that produces an endless random sequence of letters and symbols. When I was at Binghamton University bearcats we used to hang out at this local vegetarian barks I'm a cool person and they would have live music, every Thursday and Friday night and the like the house like the house band was called monkeys typing. that. Trump all over the southern turn the other colleges theater. Department Snap an over and then we would have to leave. We'd have to take our Vegetarian Schwartz and get out of there. You're on their turf now yup, it's all over. Finally question ten name, the two thousand, Fourteen Song title from these lyrics. Now, we've got problems and I don't think we can solve them. You made a really deep cut Julia come on. This is Taylor. Swift sped blunt. You are correct. Yeah. Yeah Hey I. I didn't have problems with Taylor. No it's because I was so intent that that was I just had the wrong title in my head. I got this one though yeah great job. Thank you. Great Great Look Quiz on mathematical or philosophical problems. Are theorems said I think I got more than five correct. Sure. Did Great. Excellent job. I'm clearly learning something finally from this podcast. Is it of just letting it flow over me. So yeah. This is a quick one but you know what? Thanks so much for listening our friends. Thank you for sticking with us all summer while Julia was hanging out with her do bib trapped under baby trapped under a baby most of the time. She's very cute. You guys have already seen the photos. We have posted them on our twitter and facebook if he wanted to go check that out she's very adorable. Also, do you have anything to Plug Laura I do something to plug. Have a book coming out in the spring. I have co authored book called Five Hundred Patterns with my friend Jeff and todd, and it's based on fabric prints and patterns from two collections. The Syracuse University Su Internet costume collection, and the Rochester Museum and Science Center Costume Collection It's beautiful prints from a as far back as eighteen thirty to the present and they're divided up into like floral abstract geometric figure all all sorts of fun things. And it's being. published. Through Lawrence King Publishers in London and it's coming out. On, March. Twenty third of next year. So head on over to Amazon and preorder your copy. You will not recognize me in any of the text because. It's a reference text. But it's very beautiful. It's supposed to be a reference text for both. Fashion designers and artists Tattoo artists that kind of thing, and it's just really beautiful. Little Coffee Table Book type thing with some Nice information about the history of prints and pattern, and this will not be the last time you hear about that. Oh No. So don't worry if you didn't. You know I'm going to you all that I'm going to be plugging this at least through Christmas So make sure you buy all your friends and family preorder five hundred patterns. Title Yeah Five Hundred Patterns I won't forget to. Look it up again by the time we record again but. I. Think. It's very exciting. I'm an author authoress. Which is Probably against what we were talking about with the feminist sex thing, I'm an often. Whenever. We watch jeopardy sidebar whenever much jeopardy and they do A. Category title and it's like women authors and I go. It should just be called authors and when we asked his jeopardy studios for like Josh like tapings sitting there like like women singers came up and I was like intricacy called. Sagar's like in the audience and I was like Oh shoot. I'm living room. Since you hear me but it's true. She just become singers. Yes. I am just an author. So. Aside from that, thanks so much for listening you guys. Well, we'll get you. We'll catch you time. Bye.

Julie Julia Betty Freidan Lauren William Shakespeare Louis Prime Wolf United States partner Koenigsberg Susan Faludi Virginia Woolf salesman Bell Hooks Clay Mathematics Institute Germaine Greer Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley Koenigsberg Prussia Josh Andy defraying Monty Hall
TRR499 03 11 20 - One Hit Wonder - UK Update - Coronavirus

The Ralph Report

1:02:13 hr | 8 months ago

TRR499 03 11 20 - One Hit Wonder - UK Update - Coronavirus

"Hey they're Ralph garment here and thanks so much checking out this free edition of the row report. If you like what you hear. Do me a favor. Subscribe to the Ralph report so we can put some fun in your ears five days a week and you can listen for as little as three dollars a month so subscribed today so you know miss out on any of the fun go to Patriotdepot dot com slash. The Roth report and sign up. Welcome to the Ralph report with Ralph. Garman they're boys and girls. Welcome all are welcome. It's the route before bray Wednesday march eleventh so beyond thrilled to have you joining us again today. We got a hell of a show lined up for you. 'cause I'm the KINDA YOU WANNA know why. Well first of all it's Wednesday. What happens on Wednesdays that's when There's a thing that we is a guy comes in or on a wonder. That's what it is. One hit wonder. Got One today that really chaps my ass capture and love them all. I love this Uber Grudgingly doing that. I am a grudgingly doing this. Because I G- army member called in asking for this one and he's got a point but I like it. You GotTa do what you gotTa do a do. Sometimes it's work or not always shits giggled Robert. Sometimes it's cold hard work not always swat mads like breaking rocks on the chain gang sometimes. It's it's what it is. That's what it is. What else. Oh the return of Steve Ashton how? Steve is alive and well in the UK heading to Brussels this week man so our UK report from later in the week. We'll be from Brussels. He so going to get the inside if he doesn't have any if he hasn't spreading it so he could be the typhoid Mary Corona Virus Rolling and of course entertainment news. Your phone calls so much to do but I allow me to introduce myself. I am your podcast Pal Ralph garment and sitting here in the bat cave with me is the vice host himself Mr Pants. Everybody Yoho any Yeah let's get right to it because this show today it's all you're going to have such such a good time. Garin de but not if we don't start doing the show so let's jump in right away to you beloved members. I'm no no no sorry. Strike that verse not beloved members in the words of Willy Wonka now. I forgot to mention a thank you first of all to everyone who is responding in such a way to Merch Matt. Oh yeah that was huge. Can't let merch madness lied. Bhai without giving a nod. Because it's a big deal. People are a loving the opportunity to send in their art work and in the potential of perhaps being featured on some garment merchandise. But more than that. The folks who are looking at the art are really digging it. Yeah we started yesterday with two competing. She's Mu two great pieces of she's pieces of art. I thought we'd kickoff big tough one. I've had those two in my back pocket. I haven't hold onto him just for this occasion and put them out there and people are just first of all they're praising she's moved goes right to give him thanks and praise so all hail she's move but Yeah people are like. I don't I can't decide. I was a tough one. I voted but I don't WanNa say who I voted for aunt. Joan personal personal. Go in that booth. You pull that curtain. Do They have curtains booth anymore? Now they don't. It's like a little folding wall with With a touch tablet the touch tablet spreading corona virus. Exactly a hose. Those down he goes in there. They don't know Yeah but So we're going to do. I think we're going to run 'em about every twenty four hours so yesterday I posted the two competing. She's Mu Pieces. That will close out some time today and then I will put up two additional pieces because these submissions are coming in rather quickly and they're all great and that's why reserved the right. If you read my Patriot Post. Yesterday I have reserved the right to use some of them even if they don't win because people love so much and I don't want to not have people get to give them the opportunity to put something in any of those pieces yesterday like those would be like exact rate untidy adia either one of those that I might have to make the color one into a poster may be our next lot. Be Cool. Next Library reported prey to. That's right so all that stuff is inconsideration but it's going to be going on all month and I think we're GonNa have a good time with it so thanks to everybody for your positive reactions to March madness all right now. Now we're GONNA get to you guys the beloved garment. We're GONNA get to you because we love it when you reach out to us. You can write me Ralph at the RAF report DOT Com. You WanNa send me email. You can send one to Eddie at Eddie at the Ralph report. Dot Com Steve at that same e mail address or you can reach out to us on social media. Were all over the place on facebook and I'm not so much instagram and he's mornings ran but the twitter. We're always into Steve's Aaron twitter's three Steve Instagram's do because he loves to put his lush food up there at says Steve Ashton fifteen o nine. Yes I think because that was somethin'. Isam call numbers line extension at his old job or something like this is old phone number from his job. So Weird Weird Anyway. You can see him there or you can do it. Many people choose to do which is leave a voicemail message and why not this is an an audio medium. Why not return sound with sound right? As back in kind. I love when you leave your voicemails because then I get to listen to them all and I put a couple of them here at the top of the show you. It's easy for you to do. You just got to reach out to the Ralph report hotline. It is available to twenty four hours a day seven days a week for your voice mail enjoyment. Just dial it up that phone number one eight three three and then I listen I pick out a couple that I think are particularly appropriate and then we start. This thing called gummy on the line. Phone is ringing Rostock. Now here's the thing about the Ralph report. Many things can be said about this particular program but the one that everyone seems to agree on both critic and Fan alike is this. Podcast is a star maker. If you're on this show you will become a star. This is the launch pads a great straight to the top luck. I plucked epipens out of obscurity obscurity. Look at him. He's seventeen different podcasts. He's got a comedy special. That eventually will be seen probably at his funeral. We'll put it up on the big screen and we'll take a look at But he's a big star. Now you too big for this show. We're lucky we still have bridget. From Long Island Monster smashed success. Story Steve Ashton. Oh yeah everyone loves Steve. Reggie the wonder dog air. Your daughter Livia is a huge Sean. Even answer my call anymore We had Doubt McGregor from Scotland. He's still a big part of the show. We've got Ryan also from Scotland. And now I think the latest breakout star from the row report to garner his own fan. Base is sand saying Kay sand fan. Lots of people love sand. I don't think anyone loves sand as much as Marie. However Hey Ralph. This is Marie. I'm calling about the call yesterday from sand There's just something about his voice. You need to get him to call back. I remember a while back. You had this gentleman from Scotland. Who with their hall in recipes and stuff like that Maybe something similar to the sand or even have him and the the guy from Scotland's talked kinky thanks for all the funny appreciate it L. NBA. All right and check on aisle three Marie over there. I don't know what's going on while she's listening to the show but she wants more sand she wants to bury yourself up to our neck and sand. I think right I think so. Yeah give it to her. I will because you're in luck. Murray sand happened to call in for today's show. He's got a suggestion for today's one. Hit wonder Wednesday high row on biggio hosts Eddie himself hit once again calling from the UK and so. I'm quoting today as suggestion to one hit wonders when they This is one hope. And he will Particularly enjoy choose to his love of the wrestling world and community. Say it a song and it doesn't matter it's all you John Featuring Dwayne Johnson him without any two ready. Go play it because it's so new. It's great it's exquisite. It's just a gift from. She's moving sow so I'm GonNa have could it short bag always because my just avoid Allenby like? Yeah just yeah. I've just arrived. Catches derived says. Listen arriving I'm arriving. Cad just can't sand I love you. You're a big breakout star. Marie wants to do you. But no we're not lying. Wycliffe John and the Rock. I'll listen to whatever song that was in that car. Nash hit that gets in my phone. Listen I don't mean to The chillier I don't Wanna I know we re harsher mellow. Ruin your buzz but no that that won't be done. Do you give. And you take away luck equipment. His place his heads already two minutes three. That's three shows are always been all superstar. That's Pretty You Launching Pad Rob Report bump you've got the rapport bump whose ratings are through the roof right now Here on the show. We are dedicated to bring you the latest information when it comes to the Cove in Nineteen Aka the corona virus. A lot of people are concerned about the By get sick about what to do how to take care of themselves and we are priding ourselves on bringing you the latest and greatest and information in a segment that I call. Science rules vice so This gentleman called in it was Carlos and he likes the information wants to maybe tweak the segment high row Yoho Eddie this is Carlos from Orange County. I just have one quick suggestion. I Love Science ruled today. That good I think. She blinded me with science by common. Toby or be a much better to the Keep doing what you do. Just started listening. Indiana area love. It means by welcome Carlos. Thanks so much for signing up. If it's good to have you on board yeah as I mentioned was our usual segment. You think it should be I'm torn. How about if we call the segment science rules old and as we talk about each fact we can hit it with lose one or the other or you could close it with science science rule. That's a good point like we do with the the other every time we have a good themes all right Carlos. Good suggestion will folded in. But I'm not getting rid of science rules because that chick is a Chubby old. No she's pretty. She's a Lab. Cho All she had glasses on US hair up an abundance Komodo or whatever then they was for blind Moose. I remember that you'll beautiful. You don't remember the spokesman Thomas Dolby. Don't man look it up. Speaking of rule turn over the science facts to the army because we get a lot of smart science people out there in the army and they're calling artists and smart people. I don't know what I've done to deserve an audience of this caliber. But they're all so much better than I am at most things. You remember Dr Steve. He was the pediatrician. Who gave us the heads up. The kids aren't really getting this learning virus not nearly as much as they get the flu and other illnesses which we we didn't know at the time and I was glad to find that out Donald trump junior found that out two days ago. Apparently we we. We broke that before broke that before he did. Yeah So Dr Steve called back to talk about a few things that we've been discussing on the show about Corona virus preparedness. I rouse Yobo Eddie. The three star general from South Pasadena. I'm appalled and last week You Greg Eddie. In terms of drone a virus that Being piggly dangerous children because it doesn't seem like it is and to call it again just in response to that collar who called the other day about Wearing math and how it may be helpful in terms of People touching their face. Let's often But actually that's probably not true. In fact the head of the Infectious Disease Department at our hospital. Last week we had a meeting was reiterating. The fact that people were thick should not wear the math because they probably end up touching their base boards all the time. And you know not used to being there on the throne still Not Helpful words And then also I'm glad you pointed out about the fact that you know you don't need to run out and try to buy bottled water and they can just get out of the tap at least your La County. The water. Coming out of the TAP is thinly cleaner every year when they tested then bottled water there's less bacteria content because the process that goes through the gate bleed So yeah the TAP. Water should be fine Even if everyone in the country got growing virus. There's no reason to think water wouldn't be writing so no new to try to find those last bottles of water all right Ellen. Be Tap water cleaner than the bottle wall. They always say like la tap water some of the best water. But if you're in other parts of the country were maybe your water isn't so clean. I understand Megan bottled water. But if your local here in southern California stop it or just on Britta filters some bread. Yeah simple yeah. Here's another aspect of the corona virus. We haven't talked about and I wasn't even going to put this in here because it makes my stomach turn but just bone are good pal just bone called in and she brought this up and I think we just need to touch on its then we can all move on. Hey Ralph it's just Bozu I was calling because I wanted to share Corona virus story The other day I got into an elevator and the woman who was she got in with me and and when the elevator doors close and she looked at me and she said thank you for writing the elevator with me and then I looked over and I realized that she was of Chinese descent and I was like a little bit speechless and she saw that. I was surprised when she said Oh earlier. Today somebody hopped out of the elevator. When they saw that I was you know Asian so I was just calling to send a out to my fellow. Angelenos and and San Fernando Valley. Neighbors I should say I live in the San Fernando Valley Just because there's buyers out there doesn't mean that we can be racist so Yeah I just wanted to share that and make sure that everybody remembers. Wash your hands. Don't be right. Okay thanks bye. Can you imagine unreal getting out of an elevator because an Asian person steps into it and you are equating them so we have a virus can unreal man. That's on this pisses me off. Italian person got on the elevator. Yeah they're dealing with the worst outbreak going right now. The problem with racists is other than being racist. They look for any excuse to be racist. It's insane to me that we'd never crossed my mind and a millionaire either. That's a I didn't even think of that until she said I'll faulk. There was a politician. I forget the name now. I'm sorry I don't have it at the tip of my tongue but he was on Twitter's up any call of the Chinese Corona virus easy easy. They outbreak was in China. But it's it's worldwide now. We're all dealing with racist. Let's not add. Racism raises look for an excuse to be racist. God whitey right. Who's with me. I Hate Whitey. I'm racist against whites. Almost dim yes. And Lastly Julian called in. Julian picked up on something where we're talking about. Eddie Eddie volunteered. The information the other day that he would Masturbate for money if you give Eddie Money. Apparently he will masturbate for you will. If that's something you need if you need that Julia was listening to that segment. He picked up on something interesting. Hi Ralph Yoho. This is Julian from Philadelphia. One Star General Working his way up as When you play the clip of Eddie saying I'll jerk all for money now when you play that clip. Why does this sound like he's getting ready to say I'll jerk offer a sandwich. But then he switches the money at the last minute that back and goes out for money. Check that out. I think he wanted to jerk for a sandwich writes. What's has low standards will all right love. You mean it by. He's the vice as on this show so things. Apparently he's got low standards. I didn't notice that but I pulled the audio. Let's take a listen and see if Eddie was going to volunteer to jerk off just for a sandwich for lunch. And then he changed his mind and went to money. Golfer writes for money. You're GONNA say Sandwich. Look you're about to volunteer if you're on a jerk off if you're on a deserted island and there's a stack of money or a sandwich what do you want more when right when when. I'm just saying I'm just saying put yourself in the hypothetical you didn't give Conditu busy more valuable than money. This was a catchall. This wasn't across the board admission on your part. If you're willing to watch me jerk off I will take all of us whatever. You're GonNa give me your golf. I write for money. You're GONNA say Sandwich. Maybe I will. I wonder what Kinda Sandwich Clubs Sandra had in your mind when you thought above sandwich with Bacon Bacon no tomato cut the tomato. GotTa have tomato in there and Bacon Lettuce Turkey. Little male golfers writes for money. Yeah maybe I'll mail it. Oh boy thank you Julie and for calling it. Where where did you say he was from? I forget you remember what it was called. I don't recall I think to block it. What what you know what he fucking where he came from. I don't remember that's why I'm asking you your job. As vice host is to fill in the blanks. I can't fucking Delphi your your golfing plants Oregon. There's two reasons for buying it then. I never want to see that everybody. Who called in you too can be featured here in this segment. But you know what you gotta do. You GotTa Call Me Alrighty. Now it's time for us to take a look in the rear view mirror and find out what happened on this day. March eleventh in history to solve the mystery like just a David decent Putin tyrant King married his sister Queen. Who knows every day seems to be an anniversary? The army's rub in rouse lamps wishes. Please tell us what weekday on this day in his already on this day March eleventh in five hundred thirty seven year five. Thirty seven goths lay siege to Rome. There was a group. Appealing called Goths. Yes Off Mode of eight enough to go and take over showed up with their eyeliner on and they're dyed black hair and their gloves. All the way up there thing safety pins and they're so sad nightmare in sixteen sixty five. New York approved a new code. That guaranteed Protestants religious rights. I'm glad that the White Protestants are finally getting their rights in this so persecuted in this country. Time Ms Seventeen seventy four English auction house. Sotheby's held its first ever auctioned their famous. Yeah Auction House there in London. Very first thing. They auctioned off some books or seventeen eighty nine. Benjamin Vanocur and Pierre Charles. Lafan begin to lay out. Depends any guesses as to what city this isn't. I'm not setting up here. I thought you'd be interested to know if you'll recognize the names Benjamin bannock her and Pierre Shows lafont. What city did they design? Dc extra bonus points that the judges say you're correct Washington DC. So it's have you ever driven around that city I never had? It's impossible to drive around. I've only walked. They've designate. They they designed it so you could not attack the capital from ground because it was so it was so confused. It's not a grid system at all ready. Clever it's very confusing to drive around the downs bad though for driving. It's awful when if they singled out. This is the part. This is the place where Eddie pence will eventually jerk off. Because he's so bored you get so bored walking around the city. 'cause you get lost you do to do just jerk on. You were working. Don't you remember your own store? I jerked off in the capital is what I'm talking about because they weren't you an intern or something in the Senate. I jerked off in the basement. Golfer rides for money so in Austria Sandwich. I did that for free. Seventeen Ninety one Samuel Mulligan received his patent for a machine to thresh grain invented the grain thresher That saved a lot of trouble. You have to go out there with a stickler Asai. They'll cut it down your story lawnmower. But he's got you got you don't know man joint lawnmower right that same day. By the way he received three more patents for other inventions on the same day that seems a little shady. He was the first person in the United States to receive more than one patent. No one had ever invented more than one thing before in this guy. It was four in a day. You don't know. Do any guesses any guesses as to what major metropolitan city. Samya was from it or ask. I'm just smart guy. He's the first guy that four pat no so I'm guessing he come from a place to talk for sure. Great your second one your cap down. I don't think I did one yesterday at all. I owed myself one in eighteen eighteen. Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley published her most famous piece of work and idea what book Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley wrote. Eddie Pence Reagan's. Wow you're on fire today Frankenstein. Or the modern Prometheus as it was subtitled verse published on This Day in eighteen eighteen and eighteen fifty-five leader of the bowery boys in New York City William Poole Aka bill the butcher who was buried in Brooklyn a hundred and fifty five. Carriages were in his funeral. Procession and six thousand mourners showed up to very from gangs of New York Zach. Firebombings New York actually think birds by gangs historic movie. Didn't get hurt. I don't believe so. was Daniel Day Lewis. Pay a butcher in that This Day in eighteen sixty nine the west. I learned of the existence of something called a giant panda via French missionary named Armanda. Theed who received the skin from a hunter and they said this giant black and white bearskin. How can that be a thing? And then then the the legend was born giant Panera slops they are and I saw the movie they just they just eat and they wanted him bone near the sea zone. They don't WanNA show 'em panda porn tried to punch him out upset. They don't want to let them die out. They don't WanNa fuck anymore. Diana Pastors all point in eighteen eighty eight. The northeastern United States experienced what was known as the Great Blizzard of eighteen eighty. Eight which makes sense. That was the year it was. It began with three days of constant snow and freezing. Willer up to four feet of snow fell in areas with Snow Drifts exceeding twenty feet shutting down entire cities. Transportat- him that's bad. As much as I miss weather having grown up on the east coast and then moving to Los Angeles years ago there were days. I remember trying to just get anywhere from anywhere was a nice and I I remember. We had snow so bad one time in Virginia. Where we could actually. We were walking around the house. We could step over our fence. Why does and we could. We could walk around and step over the fence. Cool when your kid? That was amazing. No School for like a week. Yes amazing this day in eighteen nineteen Moscow became the capital of Revolutionary Russia. Now of course it is the capital of the American political system. Nineteen twenty two. The Western hockey championships were held. The Regina Capitals Lost in two games to the Vancouver millionaires. That was a great name. 'cause nobody who plays hockey's a millionaire. Veg- I think they're still like the lowest paid professionals to at the least revenue of three or four majors will make sense. Probably I think just you and I watch as about nineteen twenty seven. The first armored car hold up ever. I wonder how long the head had been since they invented the armored car by that debt around US UP. Roll off the lot happened in. Pittsburgh. Pennsylvania figures Pittsburgh. League. Don't talk about that. You don't claim that side of the INS or bad out there in Pittsburgh. Nineteen twenty seven also on this day. The first Golden Glove Tournament was held boxing. Fans also on this day 1927 Samuel Roxy. Rafael opened his famous Roxy Theater in New York City in nineteen fifty three. The first woman army doctor was commissioned. Fm Adams took them a long time to get a female doctor in the army. But she got some shit to all you know it. Oh my God here. Imagine imagine her trying to examine a soldier. What he was saying we're trying to say was not medically cleared. And then when the shit she would get right off her given prostate exam Mica General. No I want a man's finger my that's right and also golfers writes for money with the general also nineteen fifty-eight. Charles Van Doren finally lost on the US TV game. Show twenty one. After winning one hundred twenty nine thousand dollars. It was later revealed. The whole thing was fixed at started a game show. Skin doesn't movie right yeah. Quiz show show. Robert Redford directed. It's really good. Nineteen fifty-eight also think. Charles van. Doren had a bad day when he lost on that game show on this day also in one thousand nine hundred fifty eight. The American B forty seven bomber accidentally dropped a nuclear bomb fifteen thousand feet onto a family home in Mars Bluff South Carolina. My God now the The nuclear capsule was not intact at the time but the bomb did go off leaving a seventy five foot crater that killed them I am leave. Anyone was home at all my gun but still had there been dropped nuclear material inside how they would have nuked the United States. Who's an accident Zack's accidents happen? Nineteen fifty nine on this day. Raisin in the Sun the first Broadway play by a black woman opened rain hands. Very was the author that play. Nineteen Sixty eight Otis. Redding is the first person in the US to posthumously. Received a gold record for his single Sittin on the dock of the bay he recorded. It was a smash hit. Song sold a ton and had a horrible plane accident that took his life dr watching tire spitting on her nineteen seventy-one. Jim Morrison left for Paris to reorient himself. He claimed actually was trying to avoid a jail. Sentence given to him in Miami for political kicked out on stay reorient themselves. You never returned to the. Us He died there in Paris in one thousand nine hundred seventy four. The Rhino records story familiar with Rhino records. This they they started out as a record store back in the day Now they are record label but they had a record store and they were very creative. They're here in Los Angeles and they came up with very funny creative ways to try to get attention and advertising for the store on this day in nineteen seventy four. They offered people anyone who would come down and take home a copy of Danny Bonnici. Solo album would get a nickel. They gave album and they would pay you in nickel if you would take off their hands. We're paying you to take the hours they had a big stack of Partridge Family. Danny Bonnici Solo album. And they couldn't get rid of them so they started to pay people to promote because people have had came in and bought other albums. Of course. That's a great promotion very clever. And if you've ever heard any of Danny Bonnici nineteen seventy four solo album. You guys Dan why they weren't exactly flying off the shelves. Here's a little bit Although his voice is better than I expected it to be quite frankly dodd like that Danny by digital someone cut his throat with a rusty razor blade nineteen eighty-eight the British pound notes ceased to be legal tender replaced by the one pound coin. I was a bad move. Your pockets all lucky nineteen ninety-seven Moore Star Trek News. We talked about Star Trek a lot. I know trek. Yeah you do the ashes of Star Trek Creator Gene Roddenbury were launched into space. I remember that did that. And then James Doohan who played Scotty also had his ashes into space as well. What's the point of? I don't know I don't either. And lastly in Nineteen ninety-seven Beatle. Paul McCartney was knighted by Queen Elizabeth. Second now sir. Paul McCartney because night He's too said to the press once he received the Knighthood Woo. Does that a lot all right. You know what I do. At this point I talk about any food related day in history. We're running steady pendency. But it's something that he would he stick up his ass pull out of his ass. It is always a question mark. I never know what it's GonNa be yesterday Frito Pie. Who's just couldn't get enough of one I've been thinking about free will and Chester really good. We should make someone. Should wish to a munching Monday. Would we do yes? We something I really want. Yes not a condom. We can fill a condom winfried. Okay bye okay. Let's do that. What happens is I talk about the food. Then we pull. The handle of the day depends jackpot slot machine to see if it's something he would eat or not. If three matching with the that particular item there's a big payout that means he would indeed eat it however if they're mismatched once again heartbreak and disappointment all right here we go on this day in eighteen ninety seven a meteorite entered the earth's atmosphere and exploded over new Martinsville West Virginia. The debris caused plenty of damage but luckily no human injuries were reported but still pretty terrifying for their in new Martinsville West Virginia when a meteorite enters the atmosphere and explodes showering them with bits of space garbage. Not Good so that brings up West Virginia. West Virginia has a particular food that West Virginians love. The most is the number one snack in West. Virginia I should know this. You wouldn't believe it when I tell you I was stunned. This was so popular. It makes sense when you find out after the fact but I was stunned and ask my parents. They're both West Virginia. Well then they must love pepperoni rolls. Eddie Pants testimony rolls number. One snack in West Virginia invented in West Virginia still featured on the menus in most restaurants in west ought to ask them. The pepperoni roll is basically a fairly soft white role that is stuffed with Pepperoni in the middle. And then when you bake it the fats in the pepperoni melt resulting in the spicy oil sa- fusing into the bread. Pepperoni rolls are typically eaten as a snack or as a main dish for lunch either unheeded or slightly warmed they were invented in nineteen twenty seven in West Virginia by a man named Giuseppi. Are Gereau. Sure I'm saying that right are Gereau. He was an Italian immigrant. Who offered the roles as a lunch option for the coal miners of North Central West Virginia in the early twentieth century because Pepperoni Rolls? Don't need to be refrigerated for storage. You can just pack them into your lunch when you go into the minds and it turns out. There were tons of Italian immigrants in West Virginia at that time because all the booming mines and railroads attracted many immigrants from Italy who were looking for work in the new world so the pepperoni roll became the most popular snack in West Virginia in the early twentieth century and remained so to this day For those we're looking for a comparison they say it's similar to the past st in the UK or a sausage roll as well as the Italian cows zone was also based on this design as well so it's basically a white role stuffed with pepperoni. Is that something that he pants with? Either eight or stick up his ass. There's only one way for us to find out here. We go Glenn pepperoni roll to the bad effects of the road. I paid off the Pepperoni roll. Sounds good yeah. Hey you're the guy who picks pepperoni office P. But then I eat the Pepperoni but this is no choice in this one. It's baked into the role. You the whole I liked. What difference is that between that and Pepperoni? Don't want a cheese pizza. I just want cheap pizza. I take it off of that but I would eat in the pepperoni roll. You can't it out. I don't know why it just sounds like something I would like to eat. It's Ripe Goddamn next to a pepperoni pizza. It's practically the same cheese and Marinara sauce. It's different to more ingredients. That makes golf. I write for money. I've Ronan ever. That's it today at this day in history. I pity the pool. Who Ain't been schooled by route? He's dropping that got my head spinning faster than drunk. Heady number rock in the back on track with a celebrity. Kuban loves Beets Patel. Fbi report today history. Hey they're Ralph Garman here. I hope you're enjoying the show. And if you are why not subscribe to the Ralph report so you can hear it every day Monday through Friday for just fifteen cents a day you can be a one star general supporter and that will get you the show in your ear holes Monday through Friday? Of course there are two three and four star general levels as well which gets you more bonus content more access to me. So if you like what you're hearing why not subscribe go to Patriotdepot dot com slash the Ralph report. That's P. A. T. R. E. O. N. DOT COM slash. The report subscribed today. So you don't miss a thing all right now time for all the entertainment news in a segment. I call the Showbiz beat and it's amazing. Now this crossover between the corona virus panic and how it's affecting the economics of show business a lot of festivals and concerts and events are being either postponed or cancelled. You're just bemoaning the fact when you walked in eight years. I've taken Pearl Jam at the Forum on April Fifteenth. I believe and they just got an email yesterday saying it's To be a now or or to to be a worse. Yeah it would be. Who is now? Wow coachella and stagecoach have announced? They are putting their festivals on. Hold as well so there's some good news it's not all these coachella is being disrupted. That's GONNA cut way down on HEP C and herpes. Since that story where they add like that apps you can. Oh yeah the herpes skyrocketed there in the Coachella Valley. So that's going to help out that there are some positives. I thought this was interesting. The bachelor final rose which ended last night after the final rose. They do a live studio audience with the Bachelor crew. Monday and Tuesday of this week and when you went to the studio audience they gave you a covert nineteen screening disclosure. Form that you had to fill out before they would let you come in and sit in the studio audience to watch the Bachelors. Talk about your herpes in your with that crowd. That's what they should be screening. Actually thank God. That's not airborne They asked all the guests to confirm that they had not traveled within the past three weeks to any location deemed a level three by the CDC and that's Italy Iran China any of the hot zones and they said if. You can't confirm that you have not been abroad. Please let us know we will re book you to come see another bachelor taping and another time. But they were throwing people out of the studio money. It's getting like borderline like severe panic. Now we'll end jeopardy are shooting their episodes without a studio audience. How weird is that GONNA sound? Vanna returns those letters over. Nobody clouds laughs. Nobody cares laughing at sage stupid jokes. Tumbleweed just blows through the studio Yeah also South by South West as we mentioned the Ultra Music Festival in Miami Pearl Jam as you mentioned as the canceled their concerts. So who knows? It's like it's weird me. This is weird times. Another upside story however Sony has announced. They're pushing Peter Rabbit to the runaway back till August so we bought some time there. We don't sit through James Corden being the voice of a rabbit for Easter they did. It was supposed to open on April third. What's the point then? Well let's shelve the whole thing and forget it. They don't want people to die in the theater and the kids don't get affected. Here's the thing the money that was made by this. The first Peter Rabbit movie in eighteen made three hundred fifty one million dollars but two thirds of that came from International. That's why so they're worried about slash lines because those folks are Having to self quarantine at right now who knows maybe mandatory quarantines in the future. We'll see all right moving on. Hbo Max Screaming Streaming Services Hbo. They've announced the new docu series about Mark Walberg. It is being produced by a gentleman named Mark Wahlberg so truthful. Do Sing his own documentary about himself. that some balls gloss over. Marky mark completely. Oh Yeah for sure has nothing to do with that. It's all about Eddie. Not only his Description a glimpse into global star Mark. Wahlberg is lives is to juggle the demands a regula rigorous film schedule coupled with an ever-growing network of diverse business. Oh poor guy so you get to see how he handles being a super movie star but also offers many other business interests of the doctors docu series will be called Wall Street a fuck off W AHL fuck off Wall Street. Sorry TO STILL STEVE ACTIONS LINE FUCK OFF. He is special. Why don't we just call it? I'd like me. Oh just be done what we talk about. The timing was killed somebody when he was a kid. Yeah repeat somebody with a lead pipe when we talk about. That probably won't be that'll be gloss though. I won't be here Charlie. Sheen is in the news. We talked about this Corey Feldman Document. He was releasing. It was a pay per view event. And he said this time I'm naming names of all the people who did bad things to me inquiry Hain when we were guest turns out all the names in that documentary by the way. Did you see how how fucked up it was? The server crashed and people could pay low. Are you serious? Screening and they'd film didn't work at the screening. The whole thing was just. Doesn't that work at the screening idea but it turns out the ninety names in that documentary. Are the same names his name before. No new information was given people are cheesed off that they paid twenty bucks or whatever it was. They shouldn't say twenty dollars to begin with Anytime Corey. Feldman asked you to pay for anything. Just say no caught any of the accusations was that Charlie Sheen raped Corey hayme when they were both young actors. Charlie Sheen has stepped forward and said these sick twisted outlandish allegations never occurred period. I would urge everyone to consider the source and read what his mother. Judy Hayme as to say and is true. She has come forward and said She doesn't believe this could ever have happened. She said it never happened. Or else I would have known about it. She added that she thinks corey. Feldman has lost his mind and she says the horrible thing is that he thinks this is a great way to commemorate the Ten year anniversary of my son's death. Korean passed away on March tenth in twenty ten so People in the know are saying. There's nothing to this. And it's an accusation that Corey Feldman made back in two thousand seventeen as well and Charlie Sheen also said there was nothing. No no information no no. Nobody's going to be brought to justice. It just seems like a bit of a money it was. Let's talk about a real monster. Harvey Weinstein should be sentenced sometime later today. His lawyers are asking for a mere five years in prison however he is facing a twenty nine year. Maximum SENTENCE. We'll have to wait and see later today. What his sentencing is but the prosecutors are pulling out all the stops trying to get the maximum penalty for Weinstein including emails that were sent to Harvey by his brother. Saying he belongs in Hell Really. You should read. These guys are nuts. Allow this was of course. Harvey Weinstein's brother Bob. Weinstein sent them to his brother while his brother was in sex addiction. Rehab he was trying to dodge a lot of the Charges at the time. He sent him a bunch of emails. This one from November. Second two thousand seventeen. Fuck you Harvey Weinstein I pray. There's a real hell that's where you belong. Wow I suppose being you as its own hell if you could feel it but no chance. Oj Didn't kill Nicole Simpson and you had consensual sex with all those poor victimized women new goes on and on. Whoa you deserve a lifetime. Achievement Award for the sheer savagery and immorality and in humaneness for the acts that you have perpetrated cozma pathological liar calls him out on the claim that these were consensual sexual events. Sure all these eighty two women had nothing better to do than F consensual sex with you. Oh my and then out themselves and accuse you for sexual abuse calls him delusional and goes on and on and on. It's crazy when your own brother is saying you you're done family is the best jury you can get in. This guy is calling me to rotten. Hell wows pretty spectate all right. Let's take a look today. Celebrity birthdays all these stars born on this day. March eleventh brothers Joel and Benji Madden of good. Charlotte are forty one years old today. Actor Mark Metcalf from animal houses. Seventy four years old today mark. Metcalf he was the guy who also appeared in the twisted sister video. Yes Joel with your pledge pen uniform these seventy four today movie director Jerry. Zucker airplane goes to many others is seventy airplanes. Still BY THE WAY IN MY MIND. The perfect comic film It has not an ounce of fat on it and it's just laughs wall-to-wall. I don't think I don't know if there's a movie with more laughs per minute airplay. Just Jam Pack Actor Director. Peter Berg is fifty eight years old today. These directed that New Spencer movie with Mark Wahlberg from the Docu Series Wall Street Gov. They did dispenser singer. Bobby mcferrin is seventy years old today. How Appropriate Bobby? Mcferrin has birthday on a one hit wonder. Wednesday kids a little song. I wrote you might want to sing it. Note for not GonNa be happy. I don't need to hear that song. That was played a lot. Actress Alex Kingston from E. R. and of course Who've know her as river song from doctor who she's fifty seven speaking doctor. Who Captain Jack Himself? John Barone also from Arrow is fifty three actor terrence Howard from empires fifty one singer. Lisa Loeb is fifty two today. Dome GO REALITY BITES. Right now where that sound track? Johnny Knoxville forty nine years old today actor. David Anders from is Zombie. An alias is thirty. Nine actress Jodie. Calmer of killing eve is twenty-seven. Do you watch that killing? Yeah good talking about. I got no no I haven't seen it. And lastly singer Pete Dro- Jr is fifty one. Another one hit. Wonder can't help but think of a certain movie every time I hear this song. Dumb and dumber. That's an underrated soundtrack. It really is a really good of good tunes on that album all right. That's ever today celebrity birthdays. I'm Ralph Garment. I walked the Showbiz beat but the entertainment doesn't stop now. Now we're going to check in with the alive and well. Uk correspondent. Mr Steve Ashton. No Ralph your hair is so thick you make. Then ultra again. Y'All Harry so thank you make Ben Affleck like Ben Kingsley. Nice Nerdy. You did welcome. Scientists vizquel are in the news. Now I'm glad you're back all right. This past Saturday Victoria Beckham took to social media to shed snippets of her eldest son's birthday party. Also in attendance were victorious fullness by scope on May Emma Bunsen and Geri Halliwell so's it's practically a full reunion. So he was just missing sporty and scary spies presumably. They didn't have enough boost to cover scary spice being there. But now are only victorious. Son Can Brag. The three fifths at the spice bills attended his twenty first. But I mean not that. He's moment data's stupidly rich but he could say three of the five spice girls attended his birthday anyway story shed a Selfie of herself with 'em and Jerry captioning at one of the photos love you at Emily Bunsen Anne. Marie posted at Rhodes looking more at Victoria Beckham in another cell free featuring the transgressor Victoria rose kisses apparently posted a series of other pitches of her and her husband. David Beckham looking very cozy. Don Slow to instagram saying Dodson social six. Am kisses happy Brooklyn Beckham so Victoria and Davis eldest son also took to social media to thank his parents and loved ones for an unforgettable night he said. Thank you mom and Dad for starring Jennifer. Using Party last night to all my friends. Thank you for being part of the night I will never forget. I never get this row to see if you can help me out all right walk. Why do celebrities take to social media to say thank you to friends and relatives? Who played in the fucking room with the two great for? I know why I think it's because the role a bunch of attention seeking twice. I mean it's by that posting pictures of lush food that they've coke so in the gym in three. Am that's totally accepts. Yes that's legitimate. Cheyenne Sheeran's in the news. What's up buddy? Add He's got a new tattoo to represent his future. Kids now for folks. Sake asked the twenty nine year old has had a series of rings tattooed on his back and plans to add his future kiss handprints inside each circle so whether planning on having five kids all lying to kids with one of them's when he got one hundred. I I'm not sure if you've ever if you've seen his face in you know you have you'll understand that this gene. Janes Missing Chromosomes. But anyway and inside the told the you mentioned the tabloids name I said Ed comes from a large Catholic family and he wants to have a house full of kids. They continued that he's had five intertwined circles putting his back. The look a bit like the Olympic rings the onset of Palmprints into each circle sonal though as he's got the Olympic rings on these back and Simmons assumed that's what he's doing and why ads manager Stuart Camp claimed that the Popstar may now be thinking about starting a family now that he's taking a break from music and thank God he has said he still. It was still a long not far. No He's not the holiday sort but things may change. He could have a young family relatively soon. I'd like to. I'd like to give handprints. Who would you run across his fucking boat race? The song stealing talent was Anyhow I've gotta go now Rothbart off to Brussels conference IAGO packing and all that sort of direct and teach you know that they have a statue in Brussels. Cold Mannequin piss yet coincidentally. That was the name for palm pilot. Eight of the Andrew McCarthy and Kim control movie from Nineteen Eighty Seven. It's a specialized kind of porn is set up. It's good to have Steve Back. Missed him last week. Glad you're doing. Well Steve Steve will be back with US later on in the week. Meanwhile today is Wednesday and around here. Wednesdays are very special days chance for us to take look smash hit song and the art is never really was able to recapture that level of success again. In fact you could call them one. Hit wonders third. One hit wonders so very common tale as I said today and doing this. Begrudgingly never liked this song. I always thought it was a cheap rip off in my opinion okay. You'll see more when we start talking about it. This was done by a German synth pop musician in the nineteen eighties. His songs often featured science fiction themes like stuff about aliens catastrophes and this case astronauts and like we talked about with the Nina remember. We talked about ninety nine stitch. Lift balloons He first recorded this hit in German and then with success internationally with the German version he recorded an English version as well now unlike ninety nine lift balloons where the German version actually did better version here in the states. It was the english-speaking version that became the smash hit in America and also Canada and other English speaking nations. You may have guessed by now what Song I'm talking about years Alan with his request. Row Sound from Indiana to star general because drinking Jackson Kooks heard a song that I remember in ages and he just got stuck in my head all week and I thought I need to get over a call until wonder is Peter Schilling down coming home just got a chorus that we hear that stuck in your whole count down three two one great right. Peter Schilling's major. Tom Coming home. I don't like this song. First of all it's total rip off of David Bowie's space oddity from nineteen sixty nine which is about astronaut Major. Tom WHO's out in space right? Okay there was as well. It's like a sequel. No sequel. Oh it's it's a remake it's a reboot it's the same. God Damn Chart Higher That David. Bowie's I don't believe so. Space Oddity was a pretty massive hit for Bowie in nineteen sixty nine. This was almost twenty years later. But it's just it's Derivative Song. That's not half as good as the original. Why am I listening to this Guy? Do this why. I don't get it. He's almost doing Bowie esque impression. This is it's like a bad cover band of a really good song. Hate this on the Dell. Here's the German version that initially was recorded and released in Germany and West Germany in nineteen eighty three. It reached number one in West Germany Austria and Switzerland and there was a success of this version that led them to want to rerecord it in English Scores to stop it. They play it all the time. I hate it you you angrily changed the stage to break off the KNOB if they had knobs anymore but they don't so inspired by the success in in success in Europe with the German version the English version was recorded and released here in the states on September. Twenty fourth nineteen eighty three. It reached number one in Canada number four and South Africa. The top ten here in the states is a The Dutch charts at number two French number two German number two New Zealand Thirteen In Switzerland number one yeah. Big Hit is a massive international hit. And it's a rip-off and Bowie. Got Nothing for his trouble and this guy just basically stole the ideas stole the name of the character just stole stole his dull at Bowie ever reason. He's think about it. Nope nope because he's a classy dude when he just wrote something else he's like. I'm Bowie other whatever. I can crank out a hit on the toilet. Yeah and you grew up Peter Schilling and this is all you got so enjoy a Peter. Schilling should call them. Helfer schilling out. Good one now whether you get it on now. Here's the begrudging. One hit wonder of the day. A little bit of Peter. Schilling's major Tom Parentheses coming home. They will be BBB BB. Ooh beat all systems are go. Are you sure? But the Compu- as the the count stop watching Servic giant. Jim Thome Alex Classic Eighties. Tuna it so much and you'll be happy to know since Peter Schilling couldn't do anything else with the rest of his life ten years later in the grand. Tradition of folks like Bobby. Boris Pickett. He decided not to write a sequel just reproduced. The record looked around and said are I stole from Bowie and then I did the synth pop thing in the eighties when I do in the ninety s to try to revive my career Oh techno music. Techno DANCE MUSIC IS POPULAR. Crank out a new version of major time coming home as a techno dance. Here we go what you need do now all that so bad. Blow Me Peter shitting. That's better than Pilfer. Shed a bill for Schilling Peter shitting Peter shitting should be. That was for you Allen. Hope you appreciate what I had to go through in order to pull that off. That was worked for you. Work cut was a man next week. Do something sweet ass. Make me happy That's it for today's one. Hit Wonder John. One hit wonders. It's a very common tale. That's also today show. Thanks so much for joining us. Boys and girls come on back tomorrow. We're going to have some fun. We always do on Thursdays because that is the day. We've fulling opened those doors of the esteemed institute of Learning Ralph Sex University. Tomorrow's Topic May make some flinch. However I think it's something we need to talk about especially Eddie Pence. If you know I answer your call. I write for money right by the about. The intervention didn't know about that pants. Come back join us. Meanwhile until then love you mean it by.

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Writing and adapting Orphan Black with Madeline Ashby

Breaking the Glass Slipper: Women in science fiction, fantasy, and horror

56:37 min | 1 year ago

Writing and adapting Orphan Black with Madeline Ashby

"At breaking the Glass Lipa Way believe it is important to have conversations about women and issues of intersectional feminism within science fiction fantasy and horror to continue to do so. We need your help. Please consider supporting us on Patriots. Join the compensation by following us on twitter. FACEBOOK and instagram welcomed breaking the glass slipper. I'm Lucy handsome and I'm Megan Lee tonight. We'll be discussing the creative creative mechanics of carrying on successful TV series in audio book format. So how do you adapt a popular narrative that has worked so well L. in one format into an entirely different medium. Well to answer that question we have madeline. Ashby here with US tonight. Madeleine do you like to introduce yourself. yeah sure thanks My Name's madeline. Ashby and I am one of the writers on Orphan. Black the next chapter out now from cereal box publishing and I'm also a science fiction. Writer futurist brilliant. Well thanks for coming along and talking to us about one of my favorite shows as a full black it stands out as one of the very ratios that features a cost multiple and complex female characters while subverting flipping Lord of the trips. Jobs were really used to seeing on TV. So how do you stall adopting a narrative. That's worked so well in one format into something that is so so completely different when we think about television we think about audio Kind of so used to images and sensation. How does how I mean what are what are the kind of ground rules? How do you even approach that? It seems very complex to me. I feel as though that's a I almost think that's a question For for the lead of a writer's room who is mlk older who you may know from the central motorcycles from of the the and and and those and and from just being an awesome person on twitter generally and And if you don't know her you know her brother Daniel Jose older and and so I feel as though she was the one who sort of put together the pitch. She's the one who who sort of put together like. Here's this format cereal. Box for those who don't know is podcasting fiction poor format that allows you to either read sort of serialized fiction of any genre really and also listened to it So if you are more of a reader or if you're a faster reader you can sort of scroll through at your at your own speed but if you prefer for audio fiction or audio based fiction or you prefer to listen to things rather than read them you can drop what you've been doing. You can drop where you're reading thing and then pick up immediately on audio so if you stop at if you stopped mid sentence or mid paragraph it'll pick up where you left off and and so What we're fortunate enough to do with orphan? Black is have the star of the show Tatyana Lonnie reprising all of her roles. Reading our work as we sort of continue the series on and we get her we get her voice so. I'm not sure that anybody is actually really reading reading the text. I think everybody is pretty much listening to her performance. So does that mean like. Do you think about that in terms of like writing for audio or do you still think about it as writing for prose narrative I it's a little bit of both but I once. We knew that we had her once. We knew for certain that she would be performing it. My sense of of the dialogue shifted a little bit. I because I could then hear her her in my head performing the different roles I knew that she would be reprising roles that she played before and I knew what she would sound like as a Fan China the show. I knew what she would sound like as she perform them so it could here in my head her saying the words before she said them or I could hear an approximation. I would sort of you know play. her out in my head. You know the way that she would the way that she would sound with certain voices and and so that gave me a better flavor or a better sense of what what it would mean for her to be performing the roles and then I started thinking about like you know. Is this a long paragraph for someone to read is the short paragraph for someone. I want to read. What does this sound like when I read it aloud and and stuff like that so though there were those considerations mean for me I love over black and I think it's amazing how you can watch this one actress just completely become totally different characters and you completely believe as well and I just wonder how you manage to get that across when say she? She's reading it or even. If if say the people did actually read text you know. How do you manage to get that across quite as well as she didn't win? She's acting visually have old. There's other cues. You have the little ticks that you know. She displays in a physical sense. You know how do you get that across. Just with the dialogue I really spent a long time with the voices of each character. I made sure that alison sounded like Allison Lake. I spent time I am with each character. Sort of think like playing out what they would sound like one of the things that I do as a writer is that I I am a very dialogue heavy writer to begin with and And so that's that's the thing that I enjoy doing For me I often hear character voices before I sort of see the built environment went around them or see what the setting is like or even what they look like. I know kind of what they sound. Like in my head and as a child I would I would tell myself stories before I was a writer I would. What sort of telling myself stories and I would make up funny voices for all of my characters and so a new kind of what they sounded like would rehearse them before? I could write things down around before I had access to to a computer or to the ability to type really I would rehearse things out loud and I had done like a lot of summer stock in community theater as as a kid and so the idea of what people sounds like has always been really important to me and and so in the text itself so for this in the text itself you can provide some level of of direction you can sort of using you know a a a ration of adverbs you can sort of describe whether or not someone said something crisply or whether or not someone said something you know whether or not someone bites out something or whisper something or mutter something or what have you like you can you can use said `ISMs a little bit to sort of get the action in and get the direction So there's so there there are sort of like little tricks right That you can use a stage stage direction but otherwise it was just sort of a matter of of really thinking about like well would would. would she really say this. Does she really sound like this. You know is is this character. who expose it's at length? Probably not you know if it Sarah then. It's not you know. Sarah Communicates in in curse words and short sentences sentences and so on Allison communicates in you know very high-flown optimistic everything from her. Sounds like a appear statement. You know stuff like that cosima explosives at at length right. She's always explaining something sciences. So in character the women have a dif- each have their own style of communication and style of speech and and from there it was. I just sort of tried to confine myself to those rules was was there anything particularly challenging about bringing this over to audio Because it sounds like you know that actually you found on your way through any kind of the more obvious difficulties when you're kind of looking up the differences between something vigilant something audio Missouri. The anything that you found exceptionally challenging yet will certainly. There was a different understanding of who the audience would be. And what what the audience would be sort of willing to put up with. Our chapters are longer than most formal book chapters for example like we have some chapters that are like ten thousand words or or above. Sometimes they're more and the standard short story. Length is between three and five thousand words standard novel at length is up to seven thousand words arts and once you get into ten thousand like really. You're really going into something quite a bit longer. And so you really have to be judicious in terms of how long has seen is How long a speech is how long a scene of dialogue? Is You when you have that much space to plan. You have to make sure that that everything is balanced balanced and paste correctly. And that you're you're not in any one place for too long or too short and that everything sort of meets up And joins up in an in an even way like that was one of my concerns and I write in scrivner. I compose scrivener. And scrivener is really good at sort of showing you the link each scene. And showing you how long you've dwelt on something and and that's what I've always found it really useful for when I'm plotting out a novel idea with the same way like most of the chapters have to look like each other in terms of length otherwise I start thinking about well. Okay where can we break this up. Is there a natural breaking point right somewhere here and I brought the same approach to this project so conversely is says something that you feel you could address in a much more interesting way in the audio format as opposed to television. Let's see Well certainly I mean there are budgetary constraints in the same way right. I mean when you when you're talking about television you're talking about a set your or a series of sets. That's you're talking about location shooting. You're talking about you know. Can we get this location. Can we get these props. Can we get These actors can we get You know this amazing mazing you know. Can we get this big explosion that costs X. amount of dollars to produce. Can we get bonded for this Insurance Etcetera Etcetera in in audio fiction. You don't have those concerns you know. The budget is what your brain says it is. You know you're you're limited only by your imagination and by continuity between the rest of things so oh so we got to do things that would have probably been somewhat expensive to produce You know for TV but we got to just sort of run with it because you know no the ones making the problem. No one's getting the insurance. No one is having to to get the location. We don't have to worry about whether or not the weather is same. Is Is the same thing day today for shooting outside like there were the the considerations in terms of of those things was was pretty liberating in a way that it would beef for a for a TV crew to find yourself deliberately choosing to put things in there that you just know that they could never have done in. TV like we can throw ruin. So many more sci fi cool technology things that they couldn't have afforded something like that. Well there were definitely considerations in terms of things like I live in Toronto and the show is set in Toronto and the story is set in Toronto so I could include Toronto locations that I knew might be a little bit more difficult to gut et And could include sort of Toronto specific things that the show itself might not have dwelt on like there's a hole in my introductory street in my chapter which has chapter five There's a whole long digression about Toronto raccoons which everyone who lives in this city. Understands to be of a facet sort of living here but people who don't live in Toronto might not understand it and so he got to go on this long. This long digression about Toronto raccoons that I doubt the show would ever really explore in any depth and and stuff also. Because you know then you'd have to get a raccoon wrangler and those are also expensive. I I mean to go into my own digression I really love it when I'm watching things or reading books that they features of local place that I know really well which Wjr from Perth Western Australia. which very rarely features in anything else really interesting but it is? It's really fun when you write about something that is legal. Go to you and then you're reading that you can go 'cause you now I live in Oxford and there's a lot more that is based knocks can be like all my Nike that straight and I've been there so I I can imagine that's quite fun to be able to write that into the narrative. Yeah no it was. It was hugely hugely fun. It was you know It was a it was a big. I love letter to to where I live in a lot of ways so I was really happy about that when something is being such a popular can a huge hit and is developed a cult following. How do you approach dealing with any kind of you know? High Audience Expectations Nations Without being afraid to try something a bit different will there to there to answer. The question was that I was a fan of the show and I trusted Austin my own instincts in terms of being a fan of the show. I knew why I liked the show and I knew I had a sense of that. What I enjoyed the about? The show was probably probably what other people injured enjoyed about the show. As I was writing it I did go back and read reviews recaps of certain episodes and especially the the finale and sort of got a sense of what people had been watching it. Four Lake when you read those sort of series ending Pieces or think pieces about the show you get a sense of sort of what other people were responding to at the same time as you were and what they got out of it what was important into them and so I did sort of do research at at that level and sort of see what you know checking my own assumptions against against other people's reviews Otherwise I had done prior to this years ago in another life when I was More of an academic than I am now I had written my first master's degree on a fan fiction Japanese anime and and Cyborg Siri and so I had done in all my reading of Henry Jenkins and Janice radway and and all those theorists about fan culture and so I had really like I came to with with what I think is was a healthy dose of respect for both you know the tradition of fan fiction and the tradition of carrying on carrying on narrative narrative for people and also understanding that in the intervening years like probably people of their own head Canon of what was happening and I would really just be adding like one story story to this that that I had the privilege of working with a a whole lot of other writers on and having the blessing of the of the the creators and having Tatyana on board and and so I I sort of thought of it thought of it that way and and tried to be you know as respectful as as as they could be. The theme of identity is incredibly strong throughout often black. And it's also touched on in your novel company town. What is it about science fiction? The Healy Sifi that expose gender alongside identity as a whole that makes such powerful and compelling explorations of the the subject. Well I think Science fiction going back to the roots of it going back to two Mary. Wollstonecraft shelley is about. You know the the the beginning of all of this. You Know Science Fiction Frankenstein is about who gets to be human being and what gets to be a human mandy and what gets to be a man and now we sort of have questions about what gender actually is and science fiction is I think the one of the ideal genres for for exploring that. I think that most fiction is about you know what it means to be human being but science fiction takes that extra extra leap and says well how what are the borders of humanity and what are the borders of the things that make us. Human gender is one of those things and so that's always been a fascination of mine and So I think that that a story like orphan black was a good way to has always been been good at sort of looking at the limitations of the human especially in a story where WH- where these clones have their you know actually have their their genome patented in-copyright if they don't have they don't actually have rights to their own bodies which is for me such a story about women in general Not Having rights to to WHO and what they are and not necessarily being recognized as as people Depending on where when you are in in history and in space and and and so in company town I I really tried to also explore that from the perspective of somebody who is the only augmented a a person on a on an oil rig. That is that is full of augmented people. She The protagonist of that novel is the only person who who doesn't have really really a whole lot of augmentation and sort of is the last baseline human on on the rig. Is that what you would be the The lost augmented human. It's I mean it's possible I would probably I. I already have certain augmentation. I already wear glasses already. Take Medication Shen there are. There are things that are already sort of you know that I already uses as prostheses right In a certain way from from sort of Donna. Heroin Cyborg Syria perspective. Those are all prosthetic devices that that alter how I behave As human being and who I am in in relationship other people So there's so there's you know. I already use certain things like that. Depending on how you WanNa read post humanity entity or augmented bodies or or what have you I think that I would be deeply skeptical of of augmentation. I mean today It was either today or yesterday. The news came out that alphabet which is Google's Sort of Larger Company the the larger company. That owns Yahoo Google and facets of Google sidewalk in and whatever And WAYMO had acquired fitbit alphabet has acquired fitbit which means that Google has fitbit which means that Google has For for a lot of people are a growing number of people access to the things that determine their access says to health insurance private health insurance within the United States and so google now has access to that data and I've never owned a fitbit for exactly the reason I knew that eventually You know fitbit data was gonNA get fed until health insurance or fed into actuarial science in some way and you know whether it was a google or Microsoft or a or a facebook or whomever One of these big stacks was gonna it Kinda by it and and or gain access to it in some way and that would not be good for the people wearing those things and so I've always steered away from things like that. I don't have a Smart Watch. I don't I don't wear fitness devices. I don't Have I don't have an in home. Personal Assistant Things like that. I've it it took me years to get a mobile phone Took me years to get a smartphone. I was way behind a lot of other people in that and and it was in part because they could kind of see where you know how would be leveraged against people and so yeah I would probably be one of those Qamrun curmudgeonly curmudgeonly People who who just didn't want to participate or who didn't who didn't see everybody else doing it as a reason to do it. I guess US I find that interesting. I mean it is probably a stereotype to assume that people who are interested in science fiction or SCI FI writers is our into tech and like into the new changing world. But said you know it's quite interesting to to hear from someone who writes Sifi but with it might not be the first adopter Mutek well. I think there's actually kind of tradition of that. I think I mean I think famously. Like William Good Sir. Uh William Gibson composed neuromancer on a typewriter He He proposed the idea of cyberspace from a from a paper in ink medium and and what he said in interviews that. He's glad that he did it that way because if he had if he had written it on a word processor it would destroy. Destroy The magic of of Imagining Cyberspace. So he wanted to be separate from the thing that he was creating in a weird way so that he could still imagine the possibilities of it. His his imagining of what was possible was not `curtains curtailed or constrained by his own personal experience of technology. Oh Gee if he had had to deal with like an incredibly clunky word processing format he might not have had the same opinions as he did as as he was writing the book and so I think that there is something to be said for kind of holding back a little bit. But there's also you know as in my other career you know a look at tech trends all the time so I look at people being early adopters and I look at the purchasing habits of early adopters and what they get out of it but what they get out of it and what I get out of of something very different You know I'm I'm not into constant subscription services for example sample like I I don't you know I don't even get my nails done regularly so the idea that I would be subscribing to to to access you you know to attack thing is even like a whole other bridge to to cross nails I. I caught my nations because I played the piano. Yeah so the nail thing was never going to happen. No like the idea like will you can spend X. amount of dollars for this APP that gets you thus insurgents insurgents like well. You know I don't even do. There are so many things that I just opt out of naturally like. I think it's also just introversion right. It's also just as a species of of introversion but also I mean so In terms of like not having certain things like one I think my dad was. We're always sort of held back on things. We had a Betamax. DCR FOR LOW. You know into the time the DVD's were coming out. We didn't get a DVD player until my dad one one at a work party and And even then it was like we sort of had to crossover But the other thing is that he his job job was he was a sales rep for For companies like Sony Panasonic and others that made closer television surveillance equipment so our house was full of dummy surveillance equipment or or surveillance equipment that wasn't in use and so I had a real a close view of how that technology worked and what the trends were in that technology. And what the what the the what what that people were looking for out of it. And so when I hear about stuff like a Google homer or an echo or a an Alexa whatever you know whatever it is this month or whatever it is this season you know my immediate thought is. Oh Okay so so a thing listening device planted and planted squarely in your your home that you rely on increasingly for for your day to day life a thing that can knock on you. What a great idea? So so I call on this podcast to talk a lot about cliches stereotypes about all like most of the trips that we find most annoying. So do you have any. I mean I was going to say like since we're on the subject of identity An APP particularly kind of like talking about surveillance and people's People's Images online do you have any Like really pet peeves about trump's the continually really crop up in sci-fi that you'd like to see retired well one thing that we talked about We had a long conversation about this In the orphan black back sort of pseudo writer's room in our group chat Was the idea that Government surveillance works perfectly and looks it's really shiny and new and smooth and beautiful You know if you watch your average like CBS cop show or your the average Sort of science fiction movie about the NSA or or or you know a thing with the FBI or or whatever or if you look at something like like minority report or or what. Have you the idea you know. Or if you look at like agents of shield or something like there. There's a science fictional idea that that government technology -nology is easy to use worked perfectly and is beautiful and that is not the case The the deep missile scare that happened in Hawaii for example where where the people of Roy thought that they were the victims of a nuclear attack because of a false alarm that went out. That false alarm mhm went out because the interface that was used during the the drill. It is so old and so- Janke so decrepit and so So basic sick that it was an easy mistake to make from the interface design perspective from the from the user interface perspective and that is the case more often often than not with government systems. I think that people don't understand that all of those. You know technologies go out to tender. They go out for PS and and the winning. RFP's the thing that promises the most for the least money you know and and that's what budget cuts do and that's for all governments that's not the US that's not Canada. That's it's not Britain. It's not Australia. It's it's not China it's it's everywhere and and it's the same in corporate life and actually so this idea that lake that that a that a system that you would be working with Would work perfectly one hundred percent of the time and be smooth and easy to use and also also gorgeous is is ally in. It's one of the things that I really wish we'd get retired or I really wish that the opposite would get experimented with as a as as a fictional trope because it so it's the the opposite is so much more the case and has a lot more storytelling potential. As far as I'm concerned one. That always gets me is the whole zooming in on images and you're like Kay zoom in its old pixelated but then somehow yo computer you too magically just makes it super hi Rez. Yeah from not having those pixels already it just makes it up like how does that work. Well what's funny. Is that like enhance hance. That sort of like you know. The the the the blade runner enhanced function Is something that you know is something I've I've heard lots of people who work in in audiovisual technology is sort of rail against for a very long time. And what's funny is that there are Developers working hang on in photo enhancing technologies now that want to make that real but they need. They're using machine learning to do it and it's really really about a machine. A machine learning algorithm predicting. What else is in the photo based on other information and and it's not about like what the camera actually saw? It's what is predictable based on the other context clues in the image and and and it's it's almost sort of like looking into the dream of what the image is not necessarily. What's actually there? Yeah so a lot of questions about whether or not that would be admissible evidence reliable reliable in any in any way shape or form. Yeah Yeah I mean the other thing for me is a lot of things about machine learning coming and algorithms and all. This kind of thing is that a lot of sci-fi doesn't look at the fact that your data is only as good as what you put in right and you know a lot of these studies going about how if you put racist information into the Algorithm. What you'RE GONNA get out is like racist behavior of the machines and that's something? I don't really think I've seen much offense I fi- which I think would be a nice thing to explore he. I think that I think Angelov. More people are becoming aware of that fact that sort of garbage in garbage out counts for for these systems as well and we had this sort of vision and I was one of these people. I believe that the technology could in theory be neutral and and and then every study proved me wrong like every study sort of proved that that idea wrong that like the the biases of the Creator are replicated in the creation. And that's something that. Has You know that science fiction. Only we've talked about a lot in terms of a story like Frankenstein story about creating artificial intelligence that what we create you know we. We are flawed and when we create in our own image we we we create flawed things. And and that's the problem you know we are. We are not designing technology. That is better than us were. We're designing technology that that is meant to replace or disintermediated human beings so that we don't have to pay for human beings and it's doing a worse job. Yes what a positive note. Just picking up on because we've been talking about an cliches and we've been talking about things that we kind of tired of seeing in In the genre since we've been talking oh he might open black and we'll be talking about working within a pre existing franchise pre existing world Do you find it. It's harder to avoid cliches when you're working in structure that at a world has already been established. I mean because we if we're we're writers we kind of becoming aware of cliches becoming aware where stereotypes and we want to set out to create a world where we can kind of avoid these things happening but obviously when you've got pre existing material you have to work with this. I mean. Is it harder to avoid cliches. Do you have to feel like you have to be aware of the more There was there a couple couple of things like there. There are a couple of answers to that question. Like one is that You WanNa avoid cliches generally and there's also like at the level of pros you WanNa WanNa you know you sort of want to eliminate as many cliches as possible at the prosaic level like in the writing you know you never WanNa have the dark and stormy night you know stuff like that But in terms of create like working with someone else's characters there is a point at which to be in character. You have to kind of be cliche for that character. You have to sort of lean in to the moments where they are most themselves where they become almost a parody of themselves solves. You know you you have to lean into Two moments where you know for example Cosima goes on a digression about science. or where are you know where allison is talking about. You know the other MOMS in her neighborhood or or something like that You have to kind of lean into those moments and and take advantage manage of them to sort of prove that you've done your homework and prove that you know these characters are still the same people that you know would love So there's there's a little bit where the cliche can almost benefit you but you can't use it too much. You can't go overboard with a and it won't move the story along. You can only do it in a way that moves the story right and and so you WanNa be aware of of moments that were you might be being. You know a little bit overboard order or were you might be taking too much license so so there there. Were you know we. I'm trying to think of of an example So okay one of my favorite moments in my chapter which is a chapter five of orphan. Black the next chapter there's There's a moment where there's an interloper are In in the midst of the clones and this interloper is another clone. She's an undiscovered American clone. which I started calling the Americans but the the interloper then does a very orphan black thing and she dresses like one of the sisters? She dresses dresses like Cosima and she uses that infiltrate casinos home and she and Sarah have a conversation where she is pretending to be. COSIMA and Sarah is pretending to go along with it and the conversation that they have sort of like then uses a bunch of cliches about the sisters to prove that she isn't who she saying who she is. But it's something that only someone that is something that only someone who knew and loved these characters would understand and it's a thing that I got asked about actually recently That someone asked me about with regard to that chapter is like well. How does Sarah know that this person is is lying and and how they how does how did she sort of get out of that moment and it's and it was about whether or not these women are being in character? That's really interesting like to think that you can use cliches to enhance kind of character development and particularly for people who are familiar with those characters and actually cliche becomes remote in that. I mean I feel like it's become a dirty word and and I understand. Why is it that he would because it can get very tiresome but then cliches cliches? Because they're true as well you know I I think of them almost as like tropes There are certain tropes that work there are certain. You know whether whether you're thinking about TV tropes are or like okay so if you go to a Oh three if you go to archive of our own you look at a bunch of fan fiction you're gonNA find like content tags that are tropes right and and and those are incredibly well targeted tags that tell people so much about what the story is going to contain without giving giving anything away necessarily In terms of the minor gestures of the story but they are micro targeted to their audience in a way that that would would make facebook jealous in a way that makes act that would make Amazon. More importantly jealous. They wish that they had that kind of of Komo tagging in terms of of of getting it an audience and and so when I think about you know the stuff that we take advantage of in orphan black like like a clone dressing is another clone is something that happened multiple times on the show. And that you don't want to do too often because then it sort of cheapens it but you know if it's orphan black it it's going to happen right if you're orphan black then you're gonNa have close dressing as other clones period the end you know you're gonNa have a moment where sir loses her cool. You know you're GonNa have a moment where where Cosima sort of goes off on this digression and In terms of Science Hansen she'd text attack out of the thing right. That's going to happen because it's orphan black and it was a real joy to to do those moments. What's it was a real joy to sort of enter that tradition and that's how I approach it was like I was entering a tradition in which these things happened within the story and and it was less about police say and more about the sisters being who they are to each other and never really compromising their love for each other other or the the battles that they had fought and won Never really trying to undo any of the the character growth that they had already been through in the show and and really only adding to the to the growth that they were that they were sort of undergoing as human beings and as a family. Yeah I I love from. How just the idea that Sarah will like lose her shit at some point because yes Sarah will shit like yeah the often black? I just loved because they will ole such interesting varied female characters but they will also oh so believable and real to me and believably. I guess you know the whole nature nurture thing and and seeing that they were the same person but they were also completely different people and that was really interesting. I think that that's something that is so true about families in in general right that when you get a big family together you're gonNA see the corners of them right. You're going to see like how how different they are to each other. But you know if you spend enough time with them. You're going to see the similarities as well. You're gonNA notice like after a while after you spend enough time with these people you're going to notice that like okay. Certain things are the same and it's not just the looks at its its values. It's the same inside joke. It's it's something like that. There is something that Unites People over you know sometimes over great distances or great over time or or what have you like. I worked in a joke in in that initial chapter dern in chapter five about the patchy bit of skin between their eyebrows. Because there's a there's an episode very early on in the show where Allison says something like. Do you get that weird dry skin between your eyebrows. It's it's just something that had always stuck with me as a really wonderful line in terms of how these women related to each other that I had to put it in and and it was. It's just there it's just a it's a it's a little thing that like even when you're in a fight with a family member or even when you're like really when you are not getting along when you're very different people there are moments that you find sort of Elisha per you find and Commonality or or something like that they can really unite you in those tense moments and I think that the show was really good about about Sort of bringing being that forward and and it really becomes a show about a family And we and I really wanted to preserve that there were a lot of qualities about the show. Oh that I I really wanted to preserve because they were often things that the showed that that showed that orphan black did that. You know other other television was not doing at the time like for example Like Alison and Donny have a really sex positive relationship for example like they have a very sexy relationship despite being in suburbia raising. Two kids like you know being very otherwise be very boring people aside from the cloning and the you know the people in their garage rush and and so they you know I really wanted to preserve that and there's a moment in which in which I do and and so oh I know Like I think it is in chapter five in chapter five. I open it with Talking about delcine buying underwear that she knows Cosima well like right and very rarely. Do you get that on on. TV in any country even Canada and and so I wanted to preserve those aspects of their relationship and and without making it exploitative or or or to titillating or or what have you So I there were things that that the show was already doing that. I just wanted to keep doing really it. It does give women Far More to do than a lot of TV. I've seen has done. It was really refreshing for me when I watched that to see so many women you know how you kind of get a lot of shows will have like the smart one or the rebel one. Aw Aw uptight one or whatever but this one had all of them and you know women were allowed to be any of these stereotypes that you could possibly imagine and we were allowed to be absolutely anything we wanted to be in this shy yet and sometimes within the same role right. I mean I think that you know Alison is very uptight. But she's he's so clever. She is so clever and can and can do anything at a moment's notice she so capable And and Dan Sarah is so rebellious but also so conservative in some of her leanings. Right like is so you know she she. She's rebellious mostly because she wants her own way. And and and stuff so there are there. Are The show lake sort of left room in these characters for contradiction and and and for flaws and really built a lot of storytelling potential into those flaws and and gave it gave gave them sorta room to breathe. And and that's what I really enjoyed and I think that there's a thing you know where these women got to look at each other in this becomes something in something very important in the next in the next chapter in the the story that we're telling about looking at the different directions that all of these women wint in their lives that they they are in theory the same person but the directions that shows in life are so different you know not. Just sort of their circumstances arkham stances. You know what they did with. Their circumstances are very different and I think as women you know. There's a lot of pressure to sort of choose a life direction really early and and in so doing choose that as an identity like Oh. I'm this Onuma I'm I'm a mom I'M A. I'm a stay at home mom. I am a working mom. I'm a I'm not a mom I'm you know or I am. I am academic and that's all I am. I am an artist or I'm You know whatever and and that's just not how people live their lives anymore. Not just because we have longer life spans than our ancestors did although that Demographically is changing But but because you know that's not how the economy works any longer. You have to put on multiple identities in order to arrive and I think that or from like was very real about that in a metaphorical. Kind of way that you do have to put on different costumes. You do have to be multiple people people at the same time in order to just get by. Yeah I feel like that every day exactly right. I mean you wear so many hats like anything. That's the thing saying that. It was very honest about in terms of women's experiences. There were a lot of things that it was honest about. But but the wearing of many hats as a metaphor for like the everyday experience of women or people who identify as women. There are already so many identities that you have to put on. There are already so many hats you have to wear roles. You have to play the fact that you know for these clones. They all look alike but but when we live in a society that treats women the same no matter that treats women as sort of a commodity. Anyway you know it really got to liberalise the commodification and liberalize that experience of being treated ah sort of a a product and You know it really dug into that. I thought and it was. That's one of the reasons that I enjoyed it so much. So speaking like a little bow male characters in this context the series made a point of having you know often. Having having Mayo characters disenfranchised to comment on how women in a usually disenfranchised in popular television. How how do you hope to present men in the audio cereal? Do you approach these characters differently than how you might. Otherwise you know in other writing work I tend to really enjoy writing men I really for a long time. I wrote male I I think I wrote male characters better than I wrote female characters. I was better in writing them for a long time. And now I think I'm kind of about equal I think my I had to kind of level up before I could write women. Effectively effectively for other people It took a lot of training. I guess is how put Men when I was starting out men were just easier for for some reason. Well and and I'm sure people have the exact opposite experience or or what have you And and so for this we really thought about so Not just who the good guys are but what does it mean to be a good guy you know not not just a nice guy you know. TM But you know who what does it mean to be a good guy who is a good is you know why is Danica. Good guy you know an end because he said a huge ERC within the story right and and has had has really come through on the other side of it to be a truly supportive partner in in a way that he that he was not at the beginning of the show. And how do we continue that relationship and you know with art you know how do we. How do we let this guy grow in his relationship to these women based on the fact that he lost someone who is so important to him You know at the at the start the story and what does it mean to be an ally In that kind of story without being sort of a knight in shining armor do we leave room room for these men to be vulnerable to and I think that's you know I think that's one of the challenges that I wish television sort of you know go on. I wish that's one of the challenges that they would take. You know like we. We've had an entire decade of of Anti Heroes Great Anti Heroes. You know Walter Alter Way Don draper basically every man that's been on an AMC show We've had a great decade of of wonderful well written well wrought Anti Heroes on television but we have far fewer like truly vulnerable men like the and. I think that we're getting better about. I think television is getting getting better about that You have a real so you have like the caricatures of that on a show like mind hunter where you know. We're holding is the person dealing with a with the the revelation of his mental illness and and where attention is sort of trying to hold up this this possibly outdated idea of masculinity skill entity and not having room for his own vulnerability within an not leaving room for vulnerability with an for his in his partner and an and stuff. So it's you're getting like I think television is sort of digging in to those things now but you know it's A. It's a thing that I wish we saw more of for sure. It was interesting when you brought up Donna. Because I loved that Donnie became. I'm really quite strong character from someone who was at first. You thought. Oh it's kind of buying into the talks masculinity idea. He's not the The Stud that he should be he isn't as strong as a man should bay but then actually it kind of flips out on his head and it was a really interesting portrayal of a genuinely interesting and strong and capable male character who grew throughout the series and for someone who do this kind of setup as the kind of a patsy. The Butt of the joke became quite a nuanced character. And I really love often black for doing that. Well Yeah I think Danica so interesting because for me all of the clones come from different shows like orphan. Black is the show where there's there's for almost like each clone has rhone genre right And Allison is clearly on a Sitcom set set in suburbia. Allison is an is in a three camera Sitcom where she is the smoking hot wife and her husband is this. Is this doughy guy by Who is always married to a smoking? Hot Wife on a on a Sitcom right like she's this gorgeous lady and he's Jim Belushi up you know like she like exist the show that she's on and her show was running quite well until she discovered that she was a clone. She was a very successful sitcom mom until she discovered over that she was a clown right and in that way. The show is almost about the nature of television. It's all It's almost sort of Meta fictional commentary. Because you know Sarah was on this this show about being gripped. Her and and Cosima was already kind of on a science fiction. Show in a in a way in Helena was on this action. Show about conspiracies and secret societies in and whatever and they were all on their sort of individual shows until they got sort of sandwiched in to this one show. Oh that was all those things at the same time. And and so for a character lake. Donnie he starts out in a very clear shade place you know. Speaking of cliches he starts. It's out in a really cliche place. He is that that husband on that Sitcom. He's a comic foil. He's the guy who's constantly screwing up while his his rockstar. Wife Saves the day like episode episode episode. That's what happens. And then he starts becoming an agent in his own life and not being satisfied with that that law for himself so often black has touched on issues of identity. Motherhood Equality Female Autonomy Tony Reproductive rights the ethics of scientific research on quite a lot more. So what has the franchise yet to touch on you. You would really really love to look at all the additionally you'd like to explore in your own work. I think it would be really interesting if the show like. This is very biased. Answer but I think it would be really interesting now for the show to sort of go into its own Canadianness at a time when You know it's the BBC America show and it's shot in Canada and it's written by Canadians and performed by Hinz and and it's hugely popular in America. And so it's so it's big co-production and it takes place in this sort of you've weird. Limo state where Canadians are aware. Torontonians are aware that it's in Toronto. There are references to Toronto. It shows Canadian money When they show cash being exchanged its Canadian? Money Things like that but it does you know. Toronto plays everything right. Toronto Oh has been New York. It's been Boston it's been It's it's been Gotham city. It's been It's been city other cities in various comic book movies. It's been fictional places so I would really like the show sort of dig into its own Canadianness and sort of dig into what that means and. I think that we do do that in the next chapter. I think we like you know we. We spent a lot of time talking about Sort of what was legal in Canada. And what wasn't and end and how things would unfold how how certain things would unfold Logistically and like even like how far away certain locations were from each other and how long how long it would take to get to certain places like it was it was pretty. I WANNA say pretty deeply research I'm sure that there there are things that we missed and or did wrong. Just flat out wrong but But we we really tried to be true to the location and I think that I would like in a show about identity. I would really like the that exploration to talk about like you know so the about a country in which the joke is as Canadian as possible under the circumstances and and so I think that Um I'm to explore a place that has that is that tries very hard to include to be inclusive. Well making serious mistakes and doing so at the same time. I think that that would be really interesting especially now I think a lot of people are so worn worn out of American and British news that they would love the show. Set somewhere else. Yeah Yeah Yeah I'm going to cling onto that. As being the reason I liked grassy and not just because I like silly television but hey degrassi did talk about how how how it hold the Canadians. We're dealing with taking in refugees from Syria. I'm sorry yeah why not. It's it's one one of the things that I was excited to. I was really excited to write about places that I had been. I was really excited about to enter. Talk about how much I love Toronto because his I really love living here and so I was happy to include lots and lots of Toronto and jokes as sort of little Easter eggs within within my work it's been awesome having your own madeline but before you go. Do you want to just tell us a little bit about Your Book Company Town. Anything Ashley you've been working on I would say My latest novel is company town which is a murder mystery. Set on an oil rig. Five hundred kilometers northeast of Newfoundland and it's it takes place in the near future dystopian environment Involving a serial killer color from the future and An a an deeply gothic family that buys an entire city. Okay that's sounds very interesting. I really like the family. That dot bison intensity that's amazing you know they're they're fun bunch. They're fun bunch. Thank you so much for joining us and thank thank you so much for joining us. Madeline is amazing. I think we've touched on enormous amounts tonight and I think it's safe to say that from black is a really awesome show. And if you haven't watched it then I had listened to the new serial than I'm ghetto not right away breaking the Gloss Lipa is written and produced by Megan Lee Eh Charlotte bond and lacey handsome. Please help us spread the word subscribe and leave a review on your preferred podcast platform. We want to hear from you. Let let us know what you would like to hear on the next episode of breaking the Gloss Lipa.

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Becca Tarnas on Outer Planet Cycles and Jungs Red Book

The Astrology Podcast

2:24:25 hr | 6 months ago

Becca Tarnas on Outer Planet Cycles and Jungs Red Book

"Hi My name. Is Chris Brennan? And you're listening to the astrology podcast. This is episode two hundred fifty one and two. They'll be talking to Becca tournus about outer planet cycles as well as Young's redbook So Hey Becca. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I'm really so delighted and honored to be here. Yeah this has been a longtime in coming. I think I'd promised to interview you at one. Point when you're editing or about to edit an issue of the journal like years ago and now it's been I think two issues since then so we're finally getting around to doing. It feels like the right time. Yeah perfect timing so as you mentioned the date really quickly so today is April Twenty. Second Twenty twenty starting at four fifty seven. Pm and Denver Colorado and like I said the two hundred and fifty first episode of the show so all right so let's get started so I wanted to talk about your background a bit and introduce you to my audience Since this is your first time coming on the show and for those that are not familiar with your work and I think right away people might recognize from my past guests who last name of course and the fact that you're actually a second generation astrologer ran. Yes on my background in. Astrology is really in the branch and lineage of archetypal astrology. And that's really. It's a perspective on astrology. That's informed by an understanding of planetary meanings or the symbols as archetypes on that idea of archetypes really comes from a blend of platonic forms or ideas and then union psychological archetypes so as their defined in that astrological context can be seen really as both not just psychological not just transcendent but as something that really combines those so that's the particular astrological lineage. I'm coming out of it draws on Kepler's approach for example to astrology that focused largely on planetary asked acts right so Archetypal astrology is like the school or the approach to astrology and there was some episode not too long ago where I was attempting to try to define the concept of an archetype. And maybe that would be a good starting points to even just define what that means for listeners. That are new to astrology. Don't even aren't even familiar with philosophical or a psychological concept like what's your definition of an archetype archetype is a way of understanding the spectrum of meanings that are associated with each one of the planet or each of signs or the aspects. The fact that in astrology Venus can mean art or beauty or romantic love or the heart. Or all of these different manifestations but we have the sense that there's something at the core there's something behind that and that's really the idea of an archetype and the term comes from Plato. The Greek philosopher. Who talked about this idea of there? Being transcendent forms or transcendent ideas that inform mundane reality so one example of that he gives is not a horse hoarseness and you can think of all the particular horses that you've ever seen. They have in common this form of Horse Wise. It were able to recognize that. It's a horse even though they're all different particular beings. So Plato's idea is that there is a transcendent form of horse or hoarseness that each individual horses participating in now. That's kind of a more simple explanation or concept of what an archetype is and you could say that astrologically using more complex archetypes so the archetype of Saturn is a principle that can be expressed in a variety of different ways desk finish time mortality endings. Structure Discipline you know. I'm using all of these different words of course but it almost draws on the intuition to understand what an archetype truly is we can only intellectualize. It can't grasp it or put our finger on it. Carl the debt psychologists who came to recognize archetypes as being these deep almost energy structures of the human psyche. He said there's no way that we can simply define an archetype. We always have to talk around them to get a sense of what they are that it's vessel that we can never empty and never fell anytime you feel like you can grasp it. It moves beyond your your grasp or your concrete comprehension another example. I like of an archetype. That's very much connected to Venus. Is simply that beauty? We recognize beauty in so many different diverse forms in the beauty of Brooke. Ahah flowers and the beauty of a a sunrise or moonshine across the ocean or in the face of somebody that we're in love with we recognize beauty in all those places and yet each of those concrete particulars are quite different. But they all have beauty and common and that's the idea of what an archetype is in. It's really carried by the sense of participation that the particular participates in the universal or in the archetype and that there's an interrelationship that's present there. So it's Like a transcendent concept. That unifies particular manifestations in the world and therefore astrology or archetypal astrology in that context is attempting to identify and work with more the transcendent or get closer to the transcendent archetypal. Concept's that underlie or overarching. Over the particular manifestations in everyday sort of living our life or what have you. I feel like that's that's a really accurate way of describing it and I would say in addition to that not only as an archetype transcendent. It's also immigrant. So Plato would have said it's just transcendent. But that's two and a half thousand years ago and young would say well says a lot of different things than changes his mind over the course of his career but at one point of course he saying they're just in the human psyche much more imminent in that sense that they're simply psychological. We can't say they're transcendent. He would go on to make more metaphysical claims about archetypes later in his career actually his relationship to strategy really. I think helped inform dot. That archetypes are only imminent or only psychological. They're also not only transcendent. Not really is that idea of them. Being participatory that. It's bridging between worlds in some way. Sure but then so in a astrological context then part of this approach than represents trying to focus more on the archetype. Rather than making may be specific. The focusing particularly making specific statements about this will work out in some specific way for but instead describing the range of archetypal possibilities anyone configuration replacement. I feel like that's that's an accurate where describing okay cool So how long have you been studying strategy? Or what is your journey Ben in terms of it's been about a decade now that I became really interested in astrology and as the second generation astrologer I did grow up in an environment. An atmosphere where astrological language was being used. But it wasn't ever taught me. I wasn't taught techniques as a child or as a teenager it was in no way forced upon him but it was just it was like another language being spoken and I ended up kind of turning toward that interest in my early twenties and it was coming out of kind of a maybe unexpected context because my path had been toward theater and environmental studies in Undergrad and I was coming out of those studies especially in terms of ecology with these big questions. Of How is it that were in an ecological crisis? How is it possible that we live in a world? That is so you're in a culture. That's so disconnected from the natural world from the planet that is our home and those larger worldview questions actually turned me toward someone. I wasn't expecting Whose work I would be interested in. But that was my father's work which tournus he was working with the idea worldviews paradigm shifts and Cultural History and I realized. Wow this is the the larger context that I've been looking for that. I've been craving to understand our current moment. And so it was with that kind of impetus to make sense of how it could be an enemy garage crisis that I became fascinated with astrology and it was about. Yeah about ten. Eleven years ago I started tracking right transit's for the first time and just diving deeply into the practice as I could hookah. So that's I mean that's really unique just because most most astrologers just stumble across the subject at some point somewhat randomly And to some extent in ways that are not hugely dissimilar from what you're describing but you had a unique perspective in that you always had some low level understanding of it or some exposure to it and I'm sure many people are probably curious like what that's like growing up in that context to do an episode a few years ago with my friends Ashley Otero and Patrick Watson where they had both recently had children and they were wrestling with some questions about How much to use astrology raising them or to what extent they should discuss astrology with their children because they didn't want to push it on them or something like that and so I think that was one of the questions asked you once at a conference was. Did you ever go through a rebellious phase? Where you like rejected astrology? Thought that was dumb because it was just something that you're you're one of your parents did. I didn't go through a rebellious phase against it mostly because it wasn't enough of a part of my life really to rebel against and so as I mentioned it was like a language being spoken in the House that I didn't really understand but I realized later once I started actually learning astrology. How much I had an intuitive understanding of say the meanings of the planets just from the tonal quality that I remembered when I would hear someone say Saturn. Pluto will go. Well that sounds heavy Jupiter you're honest and that sounds exciting or so there was some. I think in inbuilt intuition. That was coming in on consciously because of being in that environment. I know that knowing my birth chart informed my parents and how they related to me. My mom likes to talk about the fact that when I was she looked at me she looked at the clock and looked back at me so she got the exact fourth time that one of the first things that was done after I was brought home to our home in big Sur was my dad's sitting down hand calculating out my chart and His worry at the time actually that I had as he was calculating hands. Worry that had an uninspected son and And it was actually in exploring that seemingly on aspect at Sun that he came to recognize how mid points worked because my son is at the midpoint of a lot of different planetary configurations so but that I had no idea of until many years later that they were using chart as a way to kind of understand who I was what I was struggling with Or growing into my childhood and teenage years but in terms of that question raising children with it I can only speak from my own personal experience and I think that it was valuable not to know too much because then I was drawn toward the practice as an adult of my own volition and that really mattered to me. I think especially in the context of having you know fairly well known astrologer as father that if I had an followed my own free will on that path. I don't think it's something that I would be engaging in now in the same way sure. Yeah if you found it on your own basically instead of having it sort of forced on you. Yeah exactly okay. Great Still Win. For example. He published his Major Work Cosmos and psyche in two thousand five. You were still like aware of that at the time obviously on some level rate. Oh It's definitely aware of it. I knew that that's what what he did. And I was extremely aware during the years that he was finishing writing that book growing up. We just called it the book because he this was a project that took over a decade for him to write his book before that the passion of the Western mind also about a decade project. And so I was. I was definitely conscious of it. I knew it was about astrology. I knew that it was about cultural history. And maybe it was just something about me being wrapped up in my own childhood or teenage milieu. That I just didn't ask for further details until later and then once I did. I was like this is really fascinating. I can't believe I did notice sure. Yeah that's really funny in a way an interesting just given. There's there's many fans of his work and I remember when it came out like an astrological community is a Catholic college and it was a big deal and we all sat around and read like this New York Times Review. That came out about the book stuff like that so that it was like an event sort of in the community But it's funny thinking of you being a teenager and Kinda Lik blowing it off on some level as just knew what have your dad's workers. Yeah it's I wouldn't go so far as to say I blew it off but I think I just didn't I didn't quite understand or the call wasn't there yet. I do remember helping with the design of cover and having some sense that you know just it was representing the myths Gods goddesses. I really wanted artists to be on the cover with the her archer's bow as the crescent moon. They ended up going with a different one. But Yeah so. I do remember being kind of aesthetically involved in that and someone who was really identifying artists that felt special but as far as the content. No not at the time So eventually you went to school and in college like you were saying eventually. That's partially where you studied astrology. That three found strategy. And did you end up partially studying in that context? While you're in school so I it was in graduate school that I started studying astrology at the California Institute of Ventricles Studies San Francisco and kind of floated around the school for about a year. This being interested in what's happening in this graduate community of the philosophy cosmology and consciousness program is really just fascinated by the students and the culture in how interested everyone in this program was in in astrology and applying it to their lives and was just completely drawn an In many ways connecting with that graduate community and a lot of the students and teachers and teaching assistants in so long who were also working within practicing archetypal astrology. That's really where the confusion came in and I saw their interest. I thought okay there. There must be something here that I want to understand. And that's when it really started to click for me that this was a discipline that I wanted to be able to integrate into my life and And that's probably an important point that one of the things that came out of archetypal astrology. School is a push towards being able to study some aspects of astrology in an academic context and having greater academic rigor surrounding the study of the subject and I often get questions from younger people of where they could study astrology. Or if there's any way to study astrology in college and that's actually one of the few programs in the world where you could incorporate some focus on astrology into the context academic program right exactly and it's held within a particular context at being within a graduate institute and so on the foundational course which is called sign. Cosmos is a blend of trans personal psychology especially coming out of the work of Stanislav Groff on another's within that field working with psychedelic psychotherapy for example. And how that combines waste transit astrology and And Needle Astrology. So that's really the foundational course archetypal cosmology and transfer smell psychology and then there are offers of a working with the a transit course and then analyses of from that archetypal astrological perspective of different. Arts Music Film Literature and so on. So those are the more advanced courses that are being offered. And they're all held within mess. Philisophical cosmological psychological And even spiritual context there. And that's something you're interested in or that you're interested in hopefully continuing to expand and that's still like a program that's out there that people can sign up for the cosmology and consciousness program which just goes by. Pcc that acronym it's at the California Institute of Integral Studies. There's a residential program and now also driving online program which is amazing and students can come in at the master's level or a two year master's degree and also at PhD level. And I think that's where students can really deep into an astrological understanding following their own pass on their own kind of deep research into some particular branch astrology research and so later at one point After you got out of school you one of your recent projects was Taking up the editorship of Arcade Journal which is one of the. It was the journal that was formed by some of the students of that program originally around like two thousand nine or so right. Yeah the the Archive Journal. It's an academic research journal. That's not showing correlations between planetary alignments in human events and it's really following the methods that were laid out in Cosmos and psyche and it was started by a research collective they're called ARC archetypal research collective that was formed in two thousand seven and then out of that group of researchers scholars practitioners was born the idea for this journal and the initial editorial team was Karen Grace Mill Street and Rondo meal. They were the editors of the first several volumes and those first four came out in two thousand nine through twelve. I actually have one of my first article. Publications the twenty twelve issue on them. I think it was a astrological analysis of birth chart of PR. Tara Down the French Jesuit paleontologist wrote about the evolution of consciousness. And I felt like the only way that I could really understand what he was writing about was I wanted to was through that Astrological Lens Submarine. Astrology helped me realize what he was speaking about more philosophical level so it was interesting. How it kind of offered that kind of translation there so the the journal was then kind of one on hold for a few years and Jaren League Rice invited myself and grant Maxwell on as the two primary editors and we came out with issue. Five in twenty sixteen it was called. Saturn and the theoretical foundations of an emerging discipline on that emerging discipline just to be clear is Archetypal cosmology which has astrology and of at the core and as the practice but the idea of the emerging discipline is more an emerging discipline within an academic context That's bringing in the philosophical And the the spiritual psychological lenses as well so it's kind of holding all of those different fields together. In one academic discipline it's oriented toward speaking to an academic audience or more skeptical audience. Someone that might not be as open to astrology and that it inquires not remain into demonstrating that astrology works but why it works as well. So there's a lot of different theoretical essays in it exploring those different possibilities. What does it say about the nature of the Cosmos itself? That astrology works. Okay yeah that makes sense and one of the questions. I always wondered just as an outsider was how not coherent but how rigid is the structure of archetypal astrology in terms of. There's obviously a clear standard that was set in like what the approaches kit being cosmos and psyche and there was emulation of that by the first generation of students that followed. Who were people like? You're on the GREIS. Who started the Arcane Journal and then went on to write books and stuff following that approach. And I'm curious how much variation there is from a technical standpoint within that school versus how much it's Focusing on that specific technical approach was set down. Like how much can there be evolutionary change within that versus trying to stick to a standard model? I think that's a really living question because I can only answer from my own standpoint and while I'm coming out of that archetypal background and I think I will always see through that Archetypal Lens. Got Just for me individually. Doesn't cut me off from learning more techniques and following my going to my first astrology conference and actually hearing your talks and many others people that are really respected. I just started opening up to wanting to learn all these more techniques traditional techniques but holding that archetypal lands in relationship to it so I personally don't think that it's a branch of astrology that has kind of dogmatic borders around it and think that there's a lot of room for dot to grow any school of thought or any school of strategy is simply made up by its members and that's an ever evolving group of people and approach so. I think that the most important thing in terms of what makes archetypal astrology. Archetypal is just simply that perspective on archetypes the recognition of this multi van expression of something that stands behind the meanings that we all discern through astrological practice. So I think I personally find it to be very complimentary with other. Schools are branches of astrology. Sure yeah that makes sense I'm always just interested in seeing different schools in subsets of astrology. And how they deal with that issue the tensions between change versus staying the same and sort of insider outsider issues and different things. Like that like I guess. I was just curious. Have there ever been any major like technical disputes within archetypal astrology? At this point in its what ten or fifteen year history. So far like Some schools like have really big debates about funny things like House division or the use of ORBS or certain techniques. Are there things that maybe there hasn't been at a no? Maybe it's not been an issue so far. It hasn't been an issue of major contention that I've come across. I think that it can spark some interesting conversations. You know because there is this focus on that kept Larry. Astrology planets in aspects and. That's of course what's really at the core of the method in Cosmos and psyche. But I don't think that that excludes other techniques but you know if there's any kind of contention it would be what gets emphasized as most important and that I think really is just it's a fruitful place for discussion more than saying that this person is right in. This person is wrong in. This is the definition recant. Go beyond it sure. Yeah I forgot I guess. Maybe that's one thing in it of itself. But the what you've referred to as cutlery and focus where Kepler re coup- couple was more restricted like rejecting the Zodiac entirely and focusing glisten entirely on aspects. And that's one an emphasis on aspects and de emphasis on the Zodiac. Might be one of the technical things that's more prominent in archetypal astrology. But I guess there's variations there depending on the practitioner. Yeah and again. I can only speak from my own experience that I think that looking at dissolved EAC through an archetypal land especially through the Lens of Rulership Planetary Rulership Dot for me is really opened up that understanding of the archetypal meanings desirable signs or the archetypal meanings of the houses. The cosmological basis of the house systems points toward their archetypal symbolic meaning so those are areas that? I'm deeply interested in and also feel like a perpetual student in so many ways but I think that it's more again. Just it's a lens rather than a a strict Body of techniques or knowledge that can't be breached beyond sure are it's so in the the first issue of the Arcane Journal the U. Edited. Was the issue on. Saturn. And then you recently edited. Another issue the chemo. What within the past year just came out in Late January actually the title of Zion. Issue that's issue seven Grant Maxwell edited issue six and sort switching off. I edited issue seven and the title is historical roots in Carton Front flowerbeds and unlike the issue. issue five the Saturn issue where we really kind of curated it around this archetypal theme of Saturn and the backbone of that issue was James Helman's article on sex consciousness which we had permission to republish so I wanted to see once seen is going to naturally emerge from the submissions and kind of just tapping into the Zeitgeist and a really strong young theme ended up coming through. So at the beginning we had three book reviewers that became kind of core to defining the theme. One was a book review of a recently published volume edited by Saffron Rossi and Karen Grace and that is of young's own writings on astrology. It's called on astrology and a not in itself is fascinating because you date of right about strategy many times throughout his career It's spread throughout the collected works. You have to really look for it. And so they've done us. This great service of editing not in one volume so we have a review of that and then we have a review of Liz. Greens two volumes also on young astrology. The first volume being the astro logical. Sorry Young's studies astrology and then the second Logical world of Young's Lebron overs. Lebron Ovalles's the other name for his redbook These are just extraordinary books so rich in research but Liz green dead on young's relationship to astrology. So we have a review of that and then one other of Nancy Salvage Healey's book Tony Wolf and CG Young Collaboration. And I actually am. The one who wrote that review in it includes astrological analysis attorney Wolf's Chart Antoni Wolf was a woman who young had a romantic relationship with and also a collaborative professional relationship in news very controversial and so her histories largely been hidden so I wanted to not only put a focus on her and she was very interested in. Astrology would also get a sense for her natal chart and how Her life story was reflected in that. Because it's really an extraordinary life. She's one of the hidden figures behind Carl young depth psychology so that doubt really informed the the theme of the Journal. These young men routes Nurse other kind of rooted or lineage pieces in there Laura. Chetty has an article on the origins of the Saturn Return in Persian astrology. There's a number of different ones on the relationship of astrology to transfer personal psychology one on wordsworth romantic poets in other on the role of the city of Prague in that tradition the astrological entrance personal tradition another from the great late astrologer Jerry Goddard who don't trance personal psychology and archetypal astrology Out One one piece written by my Dad Raju tournus on the role of astrology in a civilization crisis which kills extremely opt right now considering all things so Yeah especially coming out in January. That's really well timed it. I was it took longer to work on this particular issue than I hoped unexpected in part because when I first started working on the issue of finishing my PhD and it started to feel like this issues actually waiting for the exact conjunction of Saturn and Pluto. That's really what seemed to be informing so much of what was in the issue and even the emphasis on young young was born with Saturn Square Pluto. And how much the archetypal themes of Saturn Pluto come through his life and work facing the shadow for example so that ended up becoming the unconscious inevitable theme that that emerged yet and I did interviews with Safran Rossi and Kurla Greis When those books came out So people can find more on that and some of those past interviews past episodes of the podcast. I also did an episode. Tried to interview Liz Green when both of those book came out. But it didn't happen but I did do an episode where we talked about the first Of those two volumes on her books on young and astrology or young studies in astrology. But we never did a follow up for the second. One which I wanted to save is like a separate discussion at some point to discuss young's redbook and that's actually a topic that you focused on specialized enwright it is. I WROTE MY PhD Dissertation On. Young's redbook and parallels that I found between it and the work of Jr tool king's best known as the author of the Lord of the Rings and he also had a red book that actually was in the context of the story of the Lord of the Rings that stories written down in a book called the Red Book with Red Book West March so that my dissertation ended up being a project looking at these numerous parallels pillows in timing imagery symbols storylines figures method even between yawns. Redbook and Tolkien's redbook and that really did draw me in to this. Very strange vast world that is recorded in Lebron office which was a a self experiment that you undertook beginning in nineteen thirteen so as the Saturn Pluto conjunction correlated with the beginning of the first world war just as that was coming into or he started feeling tremendous pressure coming from the unconscious and one day was completely overtaken by a vision of flood a great flood covering all of Europe and he thought maybe some latent psychosis had been unleashed. He really didn't know what was going on. He had this vision twice a flood completely covering the map of Europe it turns to blood. He sees the rubble of civilization. And it comes up to the Swiss Alps in stopped by the mountains. Really Extraordinary Vision thought. Maybe I'm going insane. I don't know so he he started First of all writing down the experiences writing down his dreams really reviewing his whole life trying to understand what was happening and as you started writing he essentially came into contact with his soul. He called out to his soul. And that led to this breakthrough and visions in what he called active imagination and so they weren't fully. Sometimes they were but they weren't fully spontaneous visions. He was in some control of it and yet it's also being flooded by this unconscious material basically stepping over a threshold and entering into another interior imaginable world. And so he wrote down all of these experiences and nine months into this kind of self study where. He's still not sure if he's going insane or not. The first World War breaks out and he starts to realize that many of his dreams ambitions were pre cognitive and even the flood the way it was covering the map it was all the areas that were affected by the war. You can see neutral Switzerland which isn't affected by the flood And and that's when you realize that maybe these visions weren't just about him personally. Maybe there was something in them that was collected and not inspired him to write them down in a beautiful red leather bound book. The illustrated them need spent many many years. Trying to make sense of it. And it's it was our of trying to make sense of that. Experience haired with his work is clinical work with patients that so many of the core concepts of union psychology were developed and a lot of them were developed in conversation with Tony Wolf to who in a lot of ways ended up being his guide through this process us. She was the one that he was able to share the experiences. West in the great gifts that was green has given us is that she has delved into all the ostra logical symbolism that's embedded in his interpretation of decisions do you have the kind of core visions or fantasies that he wrote down and then there's a secondary layer what's what The editor of the read books. So New Sean. Dasani calls a lyrical elaboration and it's that elaboration. That's kind of a secondary commentary trying to understand what's happening in the divisions and that's why has all this astrological symbolism he's making son service on Astra logical lands and through his own birth chart but also more through a collective psycho cosmology and so green has really demonstrated how much astrology is at the core of Jungian psychology. Even though there are probably many most Yumi psychologists who would either deny that connection not interested in it. Or Yeah just it. It's not woven in to most unions college programs or trainings for example. Sure and that's something that released changed or has the potential that change with a publication of like Saffron Rossi and currently crisis work which which collects together in a single volume of his quotes in in discussions about astrology. And the now Liz. Greens were work. Basically exposing and documenting the same focus passion and like continuous Backdrop of astrology throughout his life. It's they boost Publish their books and roll. All three of them published these books in two thousand eighteen. So just as recurrent Saturn Pluto alignment was coming in the end of the year honest Pluto Square kind of interesting revelation on the depth of yawns relationship to strategy and kind of interesting that they would come out in the same year in just within a couple months of each other. Yeah and About going back to the red book. Part of the with notable about it is that even though he worked on it for several decades in his life and it was known in some circles that it existed after he passed away. It wasn't publicly available. It was only published publicly for the first time like a decade or so ago right. Yeah October two thousand nine. It was finally published and it took thirteen years of editing by Sony. Shown Dasani to bring it forward in the form that it's in. It's a beautiful publication. They did an extraordinary job Respecting the origin of where it came from. Although there's a bit of a kind of controversy around that tear it has almost like a biblical feel to it and So it depends where you land in your relationship with your that. There's such a kind of elevated presentation in the book is enormous is about two feet. Tall marriage is hardly which is hard to actually overstay. Like we actually have it in person like in your hands like it's again. It's like the largest book you'd probably have held the you'll have in your library. It's definitely the largest book in my library. Takes a it holds a very prominent place. There it even. If you don't put it out on display it still resides huge red book of anyone. Who is you know thinking about reading the Red Book? I know a lot of people who own it for example on have looked at the extraordinary illustrations. But haven't actually read it. It's very challenging to read. And I think it's actually helpful to have if you can afford it both. The large scale. Facsimile edition and a reader's edition just to really be able to engage with the text Although there's some something to be said about the process of moving through these huge pages you feel like have really accomplished something when you breed five pages of that when you make sure What about it? Because there's been this explosion of scholarship on it over the course of the past decade and in an aside from giving some insight into like the inner private working of young's mind during this large span of time over a few decades. What was new about it? Or what presented new information that is relevant in particular from an astrological perspective Why would astrologers be interested in for example? The primary core of the text are these fantasy versions of the active immagination experiences that he was undergoing from nineteen thirteen to seventeen which is about a four year window in there. And then he spent the next out through. Nineteen thirty illustrating it and transcribing beautiful calligraphy into this book. And really I think what is at the core of a first of all it reveals the origins of a lot of his psychological concepts such as psychological types. Those polarities Such as the different archetypal figures the Mar The shadow. The wise old man archetype all of these different archetypal figures and that in itself is an interesting difference between Union archetypes and dot understanding of what an archetype is and astrological archetype or contrast with a platonic archetype because announcer logical. Archetype is more complex and multifaceted than a union archetype which tends to be seen as a figure As this figure of one soul or a figure of the shadow or a figure of the wise old man or the krone or the hero or a great mother or something like that does real persons and I think that one thing that's really essential about your experiences that he recorded was the encounter with these persons these imaginable persons and I use that term imaginable intentionally. It's one that I draw from Enrique Orban. Who's part of young circle in Switzerland done? He's actually a Sufi scholar. Whose drawing a lot on on Sufi mysticism warning that into dialogue with your immune psychology study of the imagination but he uses that term marginal and differentiates it from imaginary because that differentiation is really key. What is imaginary is what's just made up versus what is a magical is something that we're perceiving or encountering within within a psychological or I would even prefer to psycho spiritual space or realm. But you're not just making it up. You are encountering that as an experience in inner experience and young was demonstrating from his empirical scientifically grounded background. He he always carried this tension between the scientific doctor and the mystic the astrologer these polarities within him. And he's Lang out as best. You can his own empirical evidence of encountering such a magical figures or archetypal figures. And I think that that's really helpful. For astrologers to understand Zet there is something onto logically real about the figures the archetypal beings that inform our practice that for example my own understanding of strategy of getting to know the astrological archetypes cruel. Mars is who Venus's who Jupiter is and I use that term. Who intentionally as well. Because it is a relationship a getting to know on archetypal presence and I think that's really what young is pointing toward waste the Red Book and there's so much depth to psychology reason that his branch of Psychology we call it DEP- psychology that level of depth is already inherent in the Astra logical perspective. We recognized that if there are correlations between the movement of the planets in our own lives that there's more going on here than a modern rationalist disenchanted perspective will allow to be seen and young's experiences coming from an initially skeptical plays. They blast through that they break through into a different kind of world view. A world view the take seriously the psychological the spiritual numis imaginable. It's sees the imagination itself as something that is real not something that our language doesn't even really know how to handle we contrast reality from fantasy or The material from the spiritual. They're all split these diners and what? Yoenis pointing toward Unites Those again. I think astrology does the same thing. In in the red book you mentioned like the Saturn Pluto conjunction as being very relevant. That was happening in the nineteen mid nineteen teens as coinciding with that and being connected were there other interesting astrological Correlations in terms of the history of the red book in either in his writing of it or in the eventual publication of it that are notable to you or the that you found in studying the largest astrological seem that kind of encompasses. The Red Book Project was the. You're honest Neptune. Opposition that was in world transits from eighteen ninety nine to nineteen eighteen and so it was in the waning years of that opposition. That young's read books. Experiences started and just looking at those two archetypes. You're honest and Neptune. Neptune is the the principle of the imagination of fantasy of archetypes symbols images. The imaginary world. And you're honest is the awakening to that the sudden breakthrough into a fantasy landscape or a sudden or unexpected realization of a larger unifying spiritual hole. And what was the one of the world transit's that was providing some of the context for IOS redbook? And what's interesting? Is that opposition of your honest and neck tune was crossing at the time that these visions were first coming in It was crossing his Natal Sun. Neptune Square which is right on the angles of his chart so it was a lining on his ascendant descendant access and Really activating his son. And then that the needle squirting Neptune so it was happening for him at this very personal level effecting his son that he is a heroic individual goes on this journey into into the match around and encounters. These are type figures so that was one team and Young actually wrote four key taxed near the end of his career that several scholars now see as a commentary on the red book. Now we had those texts a while before we had the red book on these four texts are answer to job. Psychology of the transference mysterious Jonas and a on and these four texts which the scholar Lance Owens calls his summary Quartet the really a psychological commentary on the radio and they were all written during the next alignment of your honest with Neptune in the nineteen fifties. The first one is psychology of the transference which was published in the late forties. Just as that you're honest. Neptune Square was coming into orbit on the rest Were were all published written and published during that Nineteen Fifties Square. If you're honest in Neptune and then the next time that those two planets come into heart aspect was through the nineteen nineties now's conjunction and that was. It was near the end of the nineties that the decision was made by the heirs of young at the persuasion of Sony. Sean designing the editor that yes. They would indeed publish this taxed so while it wasn't published what took so long by the way just as like aside young's family didn't want it published. It's it is a very personal taxed. In some ways it's also collective in trance personal It bridges everything in between personal to transport more collective And there was a hesitation. I think to expose that side of young especially because at the beginning he really was questioning his sanity. And when you read it I teach a course on your redbook and active imagination at Pacifica Graduate Institute and actually in some ways. We're leaving for me to see students go through a similar process as I did when I was reading it of a you. Start to feel a little like your going insane when you're reading it you're just dropped into this world of madness figures in the divine. What is going on here? What are the layers reality You really can only digested in small bites so the the hesitation that his his family airs. Just didn't want it to be published and finally in the late nineties. There were persuaded that this is really key text to understanding young. And that it's it's important that this be there because it's so many the keystone to understanding so much else of his work. Everything came later. Maybe they're worried where like detractors of young might allege that he was like mentally ill or something like that and that. This was a like schizophrenia. Or some mental illness. Exactly and that gap in in some ways by releasing it it on a lot of those questions Because biographers when they would write about this period without having the context of the actual redbook say maybe he went through psychotic break Maybe it was as he described his confrontation with the unconscious and By releasing the Red Book we actually have taxed that allows us to make the call the judgment of what seemed to be going on for him and rather than biographers surmising based on a lack of material. So I think it's been really important that it was released to fill in the picture as the editor Sony Sean Dasani has said it's Yong's questioning of his own sanity. Dat is a mark of sanity that he is aware of what is happening to him. At a level where he still able to be rational and reflexive upon it and actually analyze it and come to deep psychological understanding not only of south things that are applicable to other people may not see extraordinary things that his psychological theories that do have so much grounding and these experiences are widely applicable to others understanding our own psychological processes. Okay that makes sense and when his break with Freud was just like a few years before that right am I remembering the time line correctly where those in the early nineteen teens? Yeah it was That's exactly right that so He the break with Freud. Was I think right around? Nineteen twelve might even actually have been in nineteen thirteen because what instigated. The break was a was young's book which is now published as symbols of transformation. Just remembering the German title right now. Which is von Neumann Symbolic Veto which was published in two volumes in nineteen eleven nineteen twelve and. That really was his. That was his own break in terms professionally in terms of differentiating. His theories from Freud's saying that the Libido is more than just sexuality deliberation was creative psychic like like force and so that led to the schism between corden young and very quickly on the heels of that he then went in taste descent. Which I do think the break with Freud was part of what led to it. I mean just professional ostracization and so on but also that it's more than just the break with floyd. It's what's happening the collective. I think. That's where actually the astrological perspective can be so helpful. He's tapped in in a way to the archetypal. Zeitgeist and is feeling DOT SATURN PLUTO ENERGY. Coming in that unleashes in the first World War which so many people did not see coming. That were just took the world by surprise that there were so many different alliances that than triggered a vast conflict that really. Nobody predicted the level of destruction in so many at so many different In so many different forms so and yet young is kind of tapped into that at a psychological level or at an unconscious level. And I think that's what's really pushing through him. That comes through these prophetic visions but like so many prophetic visions. You can't really say what's going to happen from them. Until it's in retrospect. I don't think while I know that he wasn't able to look his vision of the flood in sale. This clearly is gonNA lead to a vast geopolitical global conflict. He thought that this was just something going on in him. Right and here's for those watching the video version. Just to copy of young chart is the staife the birth time right is he like to Aquarius. Rising not seems right to me. This the sun is It might be three but because the sun was right on the descendant but that's very very close okay And you were talking about His son Neptune Square in that being part of what was getting activated as the Sun at Three Leo and Neptune at three Toros. Yeah and so the the honest Neptune at the time was just crossing right over. Neptune conjoining his son on your honest conjoining his ascendant in just completely activating While yeah that's a pretty intense set of transit's either. One of those in it of itself would have been intense but having exactly on the ascendant descendant access and conjuncture sunscreen. Upton at the same time is is a lot it was. It was huge earned completely life-changing for him and then going back to the Conjunction of Saturn and Pluto because that might provide a good transition point into our next topic. What was the range on that or I guess? This is where there's sometimes debates about one of the debates national community is about orbs when a configuration. Our planetary alignment comes into effect. Exactly but what timeframe are you giving for that conjunction timeframe? I'm giving the conjunction using fifteen degree. Orb is about nineteen thirteen through Thank Tina than okay. Let me pull that up. So we're talking about Saturn's Pluto the Saturn Pluto conjunction which eventually went exact in what it looks like early cancer. And it's so young. I Flood Flood. Vision took place on October Seventeenth nineteen thirteen and you can see that sovereign emplo are approaching each other at that point and then were within two degrees when the war was declared right at the end of July nineteen fourteen and so that Saturn Pluto alignment really dominated the first part of the first World War and interestingly. It's the other big alignment that you can see happening. There at the start of the war is that Jupiter you're honest conjunction and so you have both the intense level of destruction of the war starting and also this Jupiter. You're on us kind of naive sense of excitement about it about what it meant and all of these young men signing up to fight in the war and just to give their lives really on behalf of what an idea. Patriotism The Nation. And that you know there were even German English scholars who were studying together in universities Kark Ball see you on the battlefield. And how strange naive that seems And then of course as the war unfolded there was. It was the first Who fought in that? War called it the first war of the machines because this is when technology in terms of the machine gun in terms of tanks and so on had surpassed battle tactics and that the old battle tactics of having a linesmen run across. No Man's land didn't work anymore. They're not running into bayonet fire or arrows. They're running into machine gunfire and into tanks and it just didn't tactics didn't align with the technology and really the war in so many ways ended in demoralisation. And you can see that transit shift actually from the solder Pluto that cataclysmic intensity at the beginning to Saturn Neptune Saturn Neptune alignment in the later years of the war That was really peaking around. Nineteen sixteen during say the battle of the song which is one of the most just kind of heart wrenching battles to read about just a complete failure of imagination on the part of the British generals for example and just young men science being cut short in the mud of trenches and so on and so it carries that kind of Saturn Neptune ceiling of the conjunction there of the demoralization and the lack of imagination and the just saturated in mud and infection and flees them trenches so a big shift in energy in a lot of ways from Saturn Pluto Disaster Neptune. You actually see that. Same Arc in the Second World War which started cataclysmic Louis. Under a Saturn Pluto Square nineteen thirty nine and ended as well under a Saturn Neptune demoralizing transit in the mid forties. I'm so interesting that both world wars carry that pattern. Yes and so. Maybe that's a good transition point into the other topic which is outer planet cycles. And this is something that you spent a lot of time focusing on and started to specialize in to some extent right. Yeah I mean I think that my interest of course outer planetary cycles is definitely informed by the astrological lineage. That I'm carrying coming out of. I mean that's the same perspective that's put forward in house most psyche for example and I think at one point I set myself the task or the goal of wanting to be a humanist semmaris for Outer Planetary Alignments in at least like the last century or so. I don't I haven't it's going you know it it's in process is always the case but it's it's definitely something that. I enjoy being able to kind of feel those rhythms of history. And that's what. I love about Mundane astrology is that instead of history just simply being a series of dates every year has qualitative meaning to it and so it becomes easier to have a handle on what alignments happened at which particular times because a number of me takes on a quality instead of just a quantity. I think that's something that astrologers all experience. Yeah I mean studying. History is really fun when you apply astrology to it because all of a sudden you can see these weird patterns and cyclical movements happening underlying world events. Where if you're looking at it. In a long enough timeframe you can see the connections between the events through the movements of the planets and archetypes manifesting in that way over long periods of time near absolutely one area that that. I found really interesting is when an individual is born under one outer planetary alignment and then some way they come into prominence will really come into their own or create their great work under another alignment of the same planets so no one example that it's kind of a classic example that I like is of Barack Obama who was born in nineteen sixty one the beginning of the year honest Pluto conjunction. And how much you're honest. Pluto conjunction of the nineteen sixties is connected to the Civil Rights Movement for example until the history of your on US Pluto alignments correlate with different stages in the abolitionist movement for example and that Obama than was elected as president in two thousand eight. Right at the beginning of the next alignment of your honest and Pluto. When they came into a square and so worn at the beginning of your honest Pluto conjunction and coming in to prominence being elected president of the United States. Under at the beginning of the next alignment of those seem to planets. Yeah I hadn't noticed this before. But his charts actually similar to young and that he's an aquarius rising with the sun. Urine has conjunction Leo. Just kind of funny. Yeah that's true. And they. They both have a son. Neptune Square as well right with Young's being down early tourists as Neptune in Obama's being bed. Eight degrees of Scorpio on the other end interesting. They both have that kind of a charisma that can come with the sun. Neptune and certainly the capacity to carry on image and projection of a certain kind of image as. Well sure so. What was the so? You're pointing out the year. Ns Pluto conjunction in his chart. And then what was the later transit manifestation that he was elected president of the United States? At in two thousand eight. Right at the beginning of the next alignment of your honest Pluto. So when they move from the conjunction that they were coming into our when he was born and he spent the first decade of his life living under that conjunction and then he's and then he's elected to office right as those same. Two planets are coming into alignment again in in so many ways as the first black president in the United States carrying the promise of the civil rights movement in the nineteen sixties so semantically. There's a connection as well but astrologically to there's that connection. Okay that's really. I love that. That's a really good example Just because of how central that the urine urine as Pluto conjunction was in the nineteen sixties on the civil rights movements and some of the other things that are happening in that decade another example that is also connected to your Pluto. A different you're on. Pluto seem also liberation of oppressed people but instead of African Americans in the United States. It's women and the feminist. Manton Women's movement and if we go back several centuries to Mary wollstonecraft. Who's born in Seventeen Ninety five? She was born with the Ranas Pluto Square and she published her manifesto which was called vindication of the rights of woman in Seventeen Ninety two under the subsequent opposition of your honest and Pluto. That was the same opposition that happened at the same time as the French revolution and this text indication of the rights of women really is kind of the foundational text of European Feminism. And again this theme she was born with your on a square pluto and then publishes this work under your hones- opposite. Pluto. Her daughter actually was born under that. Same you're on. Us opposite Pluto alignment just a few years later. Her daughter is Mary wollstonecraft shelley. Who wrote Frankenstein? Which was published under the next alignment of your honest and Pluto? And there's a relationship between your honest that kind of trickster awakening archetype and Prometheus the the myth of Prometheus and the subtitle of Frankenstein is the modern Prometheus. So you have here. Not just a multi generational pattern of your honest Pluto alignments within one family. But they're also those dealing with different feminist issues. Mary wollstonecraft in a very clear way. Vindication of the rights of women and then Mary Shelley and more may be subtle or creative ways. Calling out the impulse of Dr Frankenstein to create life without a woman that a man can be the modern for media's steel fire still life from the heavens and create a life without the the nurturance of a family context without the feminine outweigh. So that's another one of those patterns that I thought was quite interesting. Sure so so. The underlying principle two but one of them is sometimes people boron under specific alignments especially hard aspects of outer planets. We'll have an important development that represents that at some point leader in their life. When there's a similar alignment especially hard aspect by the same? Two planets horse isn't always the case. Some people will come into greater prominence under a different alignment. But it's maybe you know. Of course they're having their charter. Their transits are being activated. In some way. That's it's just a more complex expression so this isn't a hundred percent consistent pattern but it is quite interesting when it shows up when someone's kind of carrying something maybe on behalf of a generation for example and express that in there being in their work and are raging between these alignments in some way sure In the the second one is that especially outer planet conjunctions will lay the seeds of the foundations of something that will then grow and develop a over the course of that cycle however long. It is and that you'll see critical turning points especially at the hard aspects of the square and the opposition and then the Waning Square. So that you can track the development in in sort of maturation of whatever was initiated at that time at the conjunction. Yeah I mean I think is definitely really accurate. Way To look at it taking in the whole of the pattern and I think that for example Saturn Pluto is a good one to look at with that because they're shorter cycles in general neither last conjunction in the early eighties and Now we're having the next conjunction of those two planets. We can track that within a lifetime. It's harder to do that for example with your on us. Neptune where so much? More spread out three alignments of that through all of the twentieth century. Yeah well let's talk about that. That's really relevant to today. So the urine this Saturday the Saturn Pluto conjunctions It varies but it goes on average every thirty one to thirty seven years so that's approximately how long it takes from conjunction conjunction and the first one in terms of the past century. Was the one. We've been talking about a lot which happened around the start of World War. One in the early twentieth century and that was that sort of was the opening of the cycle that then played out over the course of the next thirty or forty years until there was eventually another conjunction at the beginning of the Cold War and then that opened up a new period. But maybe even just focusing in on that first one we can see how that first Saturn Pluto conjunction was such a huge shift in the world in general and in politics and in geopolitics in so many different things that we can really identify that as being an important turning point in world history. The world completely changed with that war and This was opened up in the first world. War was in a lot of ways completed through the Second World War and the Second World War was started under the the Waning Square Saturn Pluto and was done by the time the next conjunction started the one that correlated with the beginning of the Cold War and that first and Second World War you can view it as one war in some ways Involving the same issues they just hadn't been resolved between the First World War on the second and that that then gave birth to what the Soviet Union what led to the opening of the Cold War? And how all the tensions of the Cold War were at a great peak height under the southern Pluto conjunction of the early eighties. So again that same full cycle between those two and everything that While the Soviet Union disbanded or or fell under a later different alignment Berlin Wall falling for example under in one thousand nine hundred nine under Jupiter opposite Saturn on Neptune That's of course a different configuration of planets but the the tensions really being at their peak under the Saturn Pluto conjunction of Nineteen eighty-four some Especially nineteen eighty two but the World War One conjunction is great in terms of. You can see how what started at that point. And what was initiated with World War one lead directly into and and a lot of the stuff that followed after that over. The next thirty years wouldn't have happened. If World War One hadn't taken place without World War One there is no world war two and that Menendez The reasons for the second war grew directly out of the first war in house result. Exactly and and those issues still continuing to be at planning can look at the whole conflict between the US and the Middle East for example as rooted in the the end of the first World War because of how the Middle East was just are almost arbitrarily carved up by European and American powers and just disregarding what is actually happening in that part of the world this colonialist mindset so so much was initiated by the First World War what unfolded than how it was concluded. How wasn't well concluded? And I think in some ways perhaps connected to the Saturn Neptune ending of the war. Where there's just the St moralize Asian in the sense of this just has to stop and and how that same kind of patterning was the case with the Second World War Two that beginning with that cataclysmic conflict and then It later invading various countries and then also ending with that Saturn Neptune recognition of. What's happening in the Holocaust and the gas chambers and so forth where there's also that that shift and the recognition of the intense tragedy. So and this is a good example in in terms of like timing so for those that aren't like up to date on their early twentieth century. History World War One was from about nineteen for mid nineteen fourteen until late nineteen eighteen and it looks like I'm just looking at the the chart for the exact conjunctions but it looks like there was one of them. At least at around one degree of cancer the Saturn Pluto conjunction in May of Nineteen fifteen. Was this one of them. So I guess one of the other like intro outer planets cycle things that sometimes there's just one conjunction between outer planets and other times. There's there's multiple there can be three right. Yeah exactly it's actually right. Now is a good example of that where we have the current Saturn Pluto conjunction and. They just made one exact alignment in January of this year gut. This kind of speaks to the importance of orbs where we've been seeing Seems of multiple kinds whether it's Near sexual scandals or corruption or the potential of international conflict and Decl logical side of things all the fires and flooding announced horse. This kind of a lot of ways. The peak I think of the southern Pluto alignment with corona virus. And even though there's just that one exact alignment in January. Were seeing kind of a wave of the archetypal energy that starts to come in and then will start. Say Out through twenty twenty one Comparing that to for example The the Jupiter Pluto conjunction. That's happening right now as well where that's GonNa get three exact passes throughout this year. The one of the ways that I like to visualize it There was a diagram that was made by Kyle from archetypal explorer who plotted on a graph and showed the exact conjunction of the current Saturn Pluto conjunction but also when the two planets would sort of retrograde back and come back within or or come closer to the conjunction versus when they're further away. let me share that for those watching the video version really quickly Just because it's helpful conceptualizing. These things in terms of may be peak periods of intensity but Even if it doesn't go exact the Energy still being very prominent during those times. Exactly I think that does does graphs that. Carl makes her so helpful. Just in terms of seeing one starts to come in wanted intensifies in peaks. When it's going out there is something that I believe is actually written about in in Cosmos and psyche that in the later part of a major world transit like at the end of the nineteen sixties for example at the end of your on Pluto conjunction. Then that there is a saturation of the archetypal qualities in the collective so even though the two planets are moving further apart from each other and were in that moment right now like it's the sunset moment of your on a square pluto which we hadn't sky basically since late two thousand seven. They're separating or finally passed their their ten degree point the square for the ORB. And but I think there's a kind of saturation of those archetypal qualities in the collective where maybe there are still more correlations present. Zan At the beginning of the cycle when they're just starting to come in even though it's the same distance Just because so much has been set in motion in that time. That's reflective of those archetypal qualities. Yeah I mean one of the problems that became really super evident over the past. Few months was You know the conjunction happened of Saturn employed on January and there was some stuff going on the Australian wildfires and everything else and the sudden rise and tensions between the US and Iran when the US like assassinated like an Iranian general. Suddenly but I remember there being like a traditional astrologer whose blog watching a few months ago and he said he was trying to go on right. This whole series about how Pluto's not important and he tried to make the point that like nothing significant happened in January in terms of world events and this is a demonstration. That astrologers were Oprah over hyping the center and Pluto conjunction a now. We know a few months later that during that time there was literally a virus that was developing that was brand new that had just jumped species and was building up in spreading and was about to kill like thousands of people or potentially hundreds of thousands of people as it would eventually emerge a few months later. But we just didn't know about it yet. So one of the issues without her planet. Alignments is especially when you're living through the time is like major changes are happening in the world but it may not be evident right in the moment. Exactly what those changes are or the full effects of the changes may not be apparent. Until retrospect sometimes even decades later like if you were to tell the people who were living through that first Saturn Pluto conjunction in nineteen fourteen nineteen fifteen what effects over the next thirty or forty years that conjunction would have on the world in general. They probably just wouldn't have believed you in terms of World War One and the effects of that World War Two and everything else. I think that's such an important point to make that as astrologers essentially viewing history from the inside right now that we just can't take in the full perspective and a lot of ways. We have more of the capacity to now than ever before just because of how interconnected the globe is news and so on. But exactly there's so much that's hidden. These are hidden beginnings of something. That really can only be revealed later on. That is why. I think especially outer planetary cycles. It's the long retrospective view. That's really helpful. Where you see the fullness of it and we gain perspective now for example on pre for example the sovereign Pluto at the beginning of of this millennium does that include opposition correlated with nine eleven. I've been thinking a lot lately. About the fact that certain individuals that Greta Sundberg was born in two thousand three at near the end of that Saturn Pluto opposition. And how she has come into prominence as an advocate on behalf of doing something about climate change and that she entered the world stage in twenty eighteen right as the sodden. Pluto conjunction was starting to come into war. And so there's this connection again of an individual born with the alignment coming into her own in some way where she's very young still so what her own may be again. That's also important that looking at the full arc of life is the same in what ways is looking at the full arc of kind of a moment or a full cycle of two planets with each other because the the becomes really clear when you're sitting like Saturn cycles like a person. Saturn return in their second Saturn Return. And if you follow like the squares and the opposition's and see them starting something new and then see the development and maturation of those themes at those different critical turning points over the course of the next thirty years It becomes really evident in an individual's chart usually a really clear but the same principle also applies to just world events in general this recognition that we're in the middle of a story. And if you're if you find yourself in the middle of a tail you don't know if you're within it how it's going to end and it's only that ending of the story that really provides context on what you went through to get to that. Point and astrology offers us that kind of narrative which is an amazing gift of COSMO's but we have to to recognize where we're still in the middle of it and why actions we take for example are so key even to how it will unfold. I mean that's again where I think. There is this participatory element that were in some sense. Maybe being called by the collective to step into certain roles at this time. And you know if there's anything to take from looking at how different individuals have published their great work or come into some kind of prominence in under an outer planetary alignment that they were born under a previous alignment of their same two planets. Maybe that in some ways can be an inspiration. So for example those born with Saturn Pluto or Jupiter Pluto or Saturn. You're honest or Jupiter solder we've got all of them at play right now in within the next few years. Maybe it's a call to all of those different generations. How can you apply the gifts that you've been working on your whole life because you have this in your chart to this moment because maybe you have that gift that can be offered right? Now that will make the difference in in bending history in a certain direction as the very optimistic. Take in wanting to like you know. Have something useful out of this where we can see. Somebody structures suddenly crumbling and changing in world events in general. I guess the thing that we can say at the very least or that astrologers would say or that an archetypal astrologer would say that looks at long-term planetary cycles is that being in the midst of a Saturn Pluto conjunction that Things are going to change during this time. Over the course of the next year that will have long term implications over the course of the next thirty and forty years. And perhaps we'll put some of the structures in some of the narratives and sequences in play that will play out in caused. Great World Changes Over the course of the next few decades nonstop. I've been thinking a lot about the D- alignments that are coming and that'll be more parent. For example. Next year of the the Jupiter Sovereigns Square. You're honest and how can we take something from the late eighties? For example when Jupiter was opposite Saturn. You're honest and action at that time that correlated with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the dissolution of the tensions that were present in the cold. And that's a sudden collapse structures and a sense of positive breakthrough at that time. Can we apply that historical understanding to our current and upcoming moment of those same three planets being different configuration true But it's the same three planets that are involved and see how sudden collapse of seemingly permanent structures do make way for some kind of opportunity for new creative innovative ways of being. Hold that as as a possibility. Sure Yeah I mean that was one of the big So I'm just looking at that next year like looks like around January. We have Saturn at three degrees of Aquarius and Uranus at six degrees of Torres and Jupiter is very closely screen us at six degrees of Aquarius. So that's the alignment you're talking about. So it's not just the Jupiter Urine US alignment but also Saturn urine a square as well exactly young That Saturn you're on a square is come pretty close already. This year hasn't gone exact yet but they seem to be activating each other In in following the the primary the Democratic primary while that was still unfolding it was really interesting to see that the two front runners Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders. Were both of the the southern conjuncture. You're honest generation of the early nineteen forties born in forty one and forty two respectively. And how they were presenting to really different kind of Saturn. You're honest approaches to change and is it. Do we want to go back to normal in that kind of Oriented toward the cost way or. Do we want to To revolutionize in that more Uranian way it's going to be interesting to see those two planets in the sky or coming closer closer how that continues to unfold not just politically at these. Larger structural structural levels so many structures are being called into question right now because of the Corona virus shutting down the economy and so on things. That were unquestionable. Ten years ago suddenly can be even things that didn't seem to be questionable. A year ago suddenly can't be around capitalism economy. And why do we do things the way that we do? And recognizing how quickly we can actually slow things down and stop and how can not be applied in terms of climate change in ecology and so on and also like a when I think of Saturn Pluto just like. It's like a stress test of you know if there are cracks and things like if you put enough pressure on that will it maintain or does it crumble in this being like a stress test on a number of different areas of about structures that are existing in the world in general or the economy or or socially. Or what have you and what happens. When you put like an undue strain on something like does it can it survive or or does it fall apart in the need to be rebuilt anew in some way a pretty complex configuration of planets that we have are activating each other right now with that Jupiter Saturn Pluto stelling squared? You're honest and how Mars Sovan activating not in recent weeks that there are a lot of different branches and auctions for how that may come through. I think as you're saying some things will prove to stand that test and show. This is a really solid foundation and other things are just totally gonNA crack and crumble and already are so what those specifics will be. Were seeing come to see but I think it's going to be quite diverse. Yeah And so going back. You mentioned the Pile up of your Neptune and Saturn. That happened in the late nineteen eighties and I just wanted to show that on the screen really quickly Since it's a really good point that the Saturn this current Saturn Square then would be partially tied into that would be within that cycle and would be tied into that that conjunction that occurred back then in the late nineteen eighties and this has always historically astrologers associated this with the fall of the Soviet Union Which happened in the late? Nineteen Eighty S and early nineteen ninety s and it was actually predicted by an astrologer In a book on Mundane Astrology. If the came out several years earlier that he had said something about this being really problematic for the Soviet Union That was in the book with Nick. Champion and to their structures whose names I'm spacing out. At the moment you happen to remember know that hand. I don't know that one hand unfortunately but now I'm very curious to look into it. Yeah I think it's just titled Mundane Astrology with Nick campion and Michael Badran's and one other person Anyway so that's that conjunction right there and then you also mentioned the Saturn Pluto opposition which happened around the time of nine eleven Which honestly at the time like I remember like remember for example when Cosmos and psyche came out that plays a very prominent role and gets a lot of discussion in that book. Which at the time I almost felt like it was too much or or took up too much of the focus because it was such a recent and seemingly terrible event but now in retrospect you can kind of see how that was the halfway point between the beginning of the last Saturn Pluto conjunction cycle in the nineteen eighties. And what we're now dealing with the close of cycle and I think that the the solder Pluto opposition and correlation was nine eleven Which took place under a grand cross? The Sun and the Moon in alignment with is while on that day. I believe a well I mean. There's the sons like in there with in terms of forming a a a t summer right. The Sun is in their making Ritchie Square. For some reason I thought that was involved. But that's my best remembering the day before the moon did like swoop through Gemini where it can joins Saturn and opposed Pluto and everything so it's at least Titan with a sort of T. Square. That was happening at that time with with that event. I think that the important thing isn't just the actual event but all of the fallout no the Iraq war and everything that unleashed and continues to unleash in. How THE RISE OF ISIS? Who's connected to that and so many things that again? We're still very much in the middle of the story but that critical moment really did open up a whole kind of vast shadowy world that we're living with the effects of right and that's really tricky thing then in that an another point or like Basic principle to write down as sometimes these outer planet cycles. You have to keep both in mind that they are on the one hand. Both sometimes indicating critical turning points that manifest in a specific event But that the event itself is not the end of the story. But it's often the other part of that is the after effects that will then last for years or for decades. Or what have you and SORTA keeping in mind that? You're trying to pay attention to both of those. Both the event itself for like a discreet moment in time but also the shock wave that echoes throughout time for a while after certainly anything that were feeling that right now where there is such a collective sense that this corona virus and the lockdown and the effect on the economy and all of these different layers are going to be leaving ripples through many many years to come. We don't know what that's GonNa look like yet but there's no way that things are just going to go back to the way they were last year or the world has changed because of this and I think this will be seen as one of those kind of decisive moments. Yea well here. Let's do something really quickly in the slippy fun long-term project but let's just state what the timeframe Zara look them up really quickly for the next the hard aspects and the rest of that twenty to thirty to forty or cycle and see over the course of the next thirty to forty years or however long this recording around if something this is initiated now over the course of especially the next year comes to maturation and reaches a critical turning point in terms of its overall cycle at the the waxing square the first square at the opposition the Waning Square and then eventually comes to some sort of conclusion at the conjunction of thirty or forty years from now. Do you happen to know those dates like offhand. I wish I did my an amorous desires. Just stretch into the past this point throughout the next decade right. I forgot to give you to give you like a pop quiz on different alignments but so far you've remembered most of them pretty well like I was gonNA throw out like win as the earnest. Pluto conjunction and that that's the easiest one probably right of the twentieth century the honest Pluto conjunction from nineteen sixty to nineteen seventy-two vocal than the previous square in the thirties. I think that's about nineteen twenty eight. Twenty seven to thirty seven tenure alignment and then you have the previous opposition that encompassed the beginning of the turn of the twentieth century. I can't remember those exact dates but I know that it's coming on the heels of the yet it's such a great series of transits at the turn of the twentieth century because you got the Neptune Pluto conjunction. That really peaked around eighteen. Ninety two. Just when Jarrett Wilkins born which is Parkway Internet Hitler. Charlie Chaplin were all born with Matt period and then that opens up into your honest Pluto opposition. And then that you're honest. Neptune opposition mateen ninety nine to nineteen eighteen so just an amazing overlapping series of transit. Swim or will now. You're just showing so that's alright so let's let's investigate this then for the future so the setting pluto conjunction when exact In January Do you remember the degree of end? It went exact at twenty twenty two twenty three to go like twenty Chu. Yeah Okay so twenty two I capricorn and it looks like it went exact on January Twelfth Jenner Eleventh January twelfth around that time so twenty two capricorn and you're using you said a fifteen degree Orebro yes for the conjunction. Nakas come in I think actually by December of twenty seventeen but really starting to come in two thousand eighteen definitely twenty nineteen. I'm we'll go out through twenty twenty warm honestly. This is something I wanted to propose. That might be useful for you but in I think there's an intensity level a level of intensity that the degree based aspect brings into effect that gets increasingly more and more Prominent or intense or whatever word you want to use for that the closer it gets to the degree especially once it's within that fifteen degree range and then there's sort of an increasing level of intensity once it gets within a degree but In some instances I found it to be useful even to watch when they move into the sign based alignment That sometimes you'll start seeing some of the issues and some of the theme start to two core later star. Constellation at that point Even if they're not within that fifteen degree range so there might be like an overlapping thing. Where the scientist component and the degree based component could be relevant in some way from Monday in perspective thinking about that. Actually listen to your episode on the transit's for April of this year. And you brought that up and I think that's kind of looking through both of those lenses simultaneously really. Does shed a lot of light like a LOT OF CLARITY. The sign based and those wider orbs. If you kind of hold both of those in mind then yeah that that does really kind of reveal more sta the larger correlating patterns NHS comparing both of those Compared to just looking at the exact junction and saying oh nothing happened. In January January twelfth. This was over hyped on Saturday January. Eleven through whatever that it had to be exact like that day so if that was true though that would take us back to the day that you mentioned before which was December of twenty eleven which is when Saturn I went into capra corn and then would have begun I guess both the sign based in the debris base conjunction around that time with Pluto December twenty seven gene. Is I think yeah. Yeah that's when Saturn went into a capricorn. Let me just put it up really quickly so there it is so Saturn moved into Capricorn on December twentieth two thousand seventeen supporters at eighteen degrees of capricorn at that point but would quickly. Saturn would quickly move into at least the fifteen degree range not too long after that. It looks like by early February. An even you know just thinking about that in terms of cluedo being in Capricorn. The southern would sign then. Saturn comes in and joins it. It just really amplifies this particular conjunction I think in so many ways yet will especially when you take into take it into the context of what the start of that transit was like when Pluto. I went into capricorn where we had that ingress took place around two thousand eight two thousand nine and we had the worldwide financial crisis and the great recession. That took place at that point. Yeah again it's having those multiple lenses that simultaneously this is just the extraordinary orchestration of astrology where Pluto moves into `Capricorno right at the same time as there's D I Saturn Uranus Pluto t square since the one that happened in nineteen twenty nine the Great Depression very next time those three planets Saturn. You're honest poodle. Come into cheese. Square happens to be also when Pluto Ingress into capricorn and the correlate with with the great recession. It's just such an extraordinary orchestration in some ways right and it also points out just the complexity of all of it and may be how sometimes it's difficult to put it all on one thing or how. Sometimes it can be reductive if you try to put it on. Just one alignment when there's often so much going on and that's really one of the challenges of Monday and astrology in general is just. There's there's so many different alignments going on at any one time that it's hard to keep track and synthesize all of them. Yeah absolutely and that is where in some ways it can be helpful starting off to commit to one approach for example For me it was very helpful to enter into that astrological learning practice through planets in aspects and then layering in layer in more more Because otherwise I think it can just speaking in general to maybe someone WHO's newer to astrology. At canfield totally overwhelming of. I don't even know which which path to go down. And how do I hold all these? Different perspectives techniques at once and. I think that's maybe where our intuition draws us to okay. I'm going to work with this for now. And then see Howard opens up and opens up. Definitely or so OCA-. I had a question I wanted to ask you. Actually around GONNA be same. Concepts in terms of the Saturn return and that the traditional technique is to count the Psalm. Return is starting from when Saturn. Ingress into the sign that the needle is in. Is that correct Will the woods? What do you mean by traditional like the ancient approach to it? I mean like the center return was more of a is more of a recent thing that astrologers like really focus on and study thing unto itself where they tend to be more focused on like the exact degree based CETERA. Turn but yet part of in bringing back some traditional concepts one of them being signed based aspect is being relevant and being valid in some way one of the things. When I started applying that to modern concepts that noticed right away was that the Saturn return really begins as soon as Saturn returns back to its natal sign and it doesn't fully end until it departs from that sign which creates a much broader time window than people are usually used to thinking about what. I'm curious about because I tend to use a very wide or degree. Wise to calculate the Saturn return looking fifteen degrees before even maybe twenty to get a sense for that and Mapping that onto white you're describing. What have you found? When someone's needle Saturn is very close to either like the beginning of the sign or the end does it seem like you know. Let's say someone's Saturn is at At Twenty eight degrees capricorn and Saturn. Of course now is going to dip back in and crossover that but when it leaves for the last time it's still degree wise very close and I'm just curious what You found in terms of it seeming like Saturn return themes linger or If the degree is later he actually makes sense. Because it's the question. How do you reconcile those two approaches? I think the answer is that the orbs still matters. And especially if it's really early in the signer really late in the sign and if Saturn transiting Saturn gets up to especially within three degrees of that You really do see. The intensity of the Saturn return either already beginning at that point or still coming back and showing some lingering after effects if Saturn is late in the sign so yeah the ORB definitely still matters and that still relevant especially if Saturn's at like the first degree of the sign were Saturn's at the very last degree like twenty nine degrees of the sign than he really slept a take that into account. I had just been curious about asking you Your perspective on that yet. It's definitely both of those and I saw a lot of that A few years ago when Saturn I went into capricorn because I'd noticed it retrograde ing back to very early in the sign and there is a there were few people with Saturn in very late Sagittarius. Like twenty twenty nine degrees who you could still see when it retrograded even though it didn't return back into secretary as You you could see. Being activated in the wrapping up of some of the Saturn return stories not fully happening until Saturday Had moved further away by degree. Yes I can personally attest on. Okay what degrees your Saturn. It's a twenty one such terriers so it and I was just looking with a twenty degree or pass that kind of just tracking with ten degrees out fifteen twenty in. It really didn't feel like until it was passed that twenty degree points. This is done now. Sure Yeah I think it's definitely important to take both into both of those into account it's useful to have additional tools for knowing certain dates to look for that might be like stepping stones The can build on each other rather than necessarily like one negating the other absolutely. Can you go all right? Let's take a look at What our next states are coming up in terms of the current that were starting and even though the exact conjunction has already taken place It's GonNa be a while. Before CAS Saturn at the very least religious say the sign based conjunction Saturn is going to retrograde back in the capricorn later this year and retrograde the way back to what it looks like twenty five degrees of capricorn before it stations direct and Pluto will be at twenty two `Capricorno at that point around the fall around October of this year. You're very close again. Yeah Which is make makes some people. A little nervous But then eventually by December of course as the strollers have been talking about Saturn finally departs from capricorn and moves into Aquarius. For good were the Saturn Jupiter conjunction. Happened shortly after that So at least that's like one. Let's say one step in terms of the separation of the conjunction is just having them in different signs at least from that point forward from like December four word but at that point. They're only what seven degrees apart so in terms of degree? They're still pretty close together. Okay so when did they get fifteen degrees apart? I guess would be the next question. It looks like maybe within a few months of that. I think that's actually by December of twenty twenty one that they leave that full. Fifteen degrees are okay. So let's see by December of twenty twenty one. Saturn is at ten degrees of Aquarius and Pluto's at twenty five degrees of Cancun. Okay so by that point. Let's say finally let's say one. Stepping stone is in of separation or one degree of separation When step of separation is December of twenty twenty when they move out of the same sign and then finally by December of twenty twenty one year later. They're also separate by at least fifteen degrees permanently. Okay so that's the starting point then. In the seeds of whatever geopolitical and larger world event changes are going to happen. Should be firmly planted and firmly in place and moving forward and sort of growing at that point once. We're firmly in the the waxing phase of Saturn in its cycle with Pluto and moving away from it. So what the next turning point that I guess would be the opening or the Waxing Square when Saturn squares pluto eventually Several years later yeah. I guess we'll talk about decade or heart. Yeah eventually put a goes into Aquarius which is a whole thing unto itself but it looks like that's where it will be a win. Saturday eventually catches up to it is Saturday will move into early. Torres in the late twenty twenties It looks like that's when Saturn will will square pluto burdensome. And I would use looking at the square with maybe a smaller award than the conjunction degrees ton. Okay so yeah. It looks like here by moves into two Taurus. By like April of Twenty Twenty eight so there we were getting both within a ten degree or as well as a sign based square between those two in the late twenty twenties and it looks like that goes exact In that first pass so Saturn scoring Pluto from degrees of Torres to eat degrees of Aquarius around June of twenty twenty eight. So that's the the opening or the Waxing Square Then I guess we would eventually go on the opposition because we know that that's going to last for like a year or two at least you the the square. Are Ya Square about two years ago? So the opposition so the Waxing Square is there a statement that we could make about that aside from just the the most General Statement? That will still end up being surprisingly specific. Is that something that started in the few year timeframe around the conjunction will fully manifested in reach a critical turning point At the time around the time of the square during that two year or so timeframe. Yeah for one thing that I keep thinking about or wondering about an import this is just D- interests that really draw me as well. But what are the ecological themes going to be under the different Sarah Pluto stages and just based on the projections that are being given around climate change and how much time we have to really change? How is energy economy and so on? I do think that this will probably be a next credible coined and so that that could be something that's in there. Obviously there have historically been a lot of different international conflicts and tensions that have unfolded to under Saddam employed alignments. So again it depends how things are handled right now and why tensions may be seated or released at that square right definitely And certainly like medical things that are coming up in terms of In the US obviously like issues surrounding like healthcare and access to healthcare as well as the medical Situation General being able to deal with pandemics. So this is a situation that people are. Some people have been worried about for years now about whether because the global economy is so much more connected whether how the world would deal with and whether it was prepared to deal with a global pandemic So a global pandemic happening at the conjunction at this time then. There could be things related to that that crop up again at the time of the squares of opposition or that Sort of check in again to see how the structures that were put in place after this penned pandemic how well they hold up under subsequent periods where there's issues where those those things are. Those are stress. Tested the gun. That's that definitely feels like. It could be an issue in those times. Just looking back. Many many centuries Because of the relationship of Saturn Pluto this time to the corona virus or the Saturn Pluto conjunction in the early eighties to the AIDS Epidemic Google back even further to the Google play in Europe. That was spreading through Europe under the sadder conjunction. That disease started in China under the previous opposition and Saturn and Pluto. So at that time it took from the opposition to a thirteen thirty three that opposition where the robotic plague started in China Bene-. It takes all the way until the conjunction for it to reach Europe in thirteen. Forty eight to fifty one and you know of course now being interconnected global culture we have viruses starts in China gets to every part of the world within months days but I do wonder if not necessarily this virus but something along those lines at either the square the opposition as you're pointing to an also even just how the world deals with These no longer being things that can be isolated to one country that one country can keep under wraps and then that brings enlarge discussions about things like the World Health Organization. In the way that that's funded or not funded and the level of cooperation that different countries have with that and may be that being something That's being changed or we're Changes are happening. Now that are going to have echoes are repercussions over the course of the next thirty to forty years especially those turning points teams have so much to do with boundaries and division and that what. This virus is really. Showing is the Tonic of the natural world. The elemental powers of nature. Don't really care about our national boundaries. And that maybe hopefully my optimism again that some of the seeds are planted right now. Are we have to start thinking like globe? There were on. Were on a planet. That's moving through space. Where all on one globe and those lines drawn sand really don't matter and yet we make some matter. We shed all kinds of blood on their behalf but you know just thinking theoretically about Saturn and Pluto Pluto being destruction and Saturn being a kind of destruction of artificial boundaries. I don't actually we hold that. Hope and optimism but I at least want to be able to speak to planting the seed of it. Sure definitely I mean that also some key words using also makes me think of Saturn and some the significance around fear and over the past few months. One of the things that became really palpable was like a a like a fear of destruction. And I actually haven't felt that same feeling that was sort of going on in the collective over the past few months especially before the lockdowns really went into place around the time that the lockdowns haven't released seen that collective level of fear happening The last time I remember it was like around September eleventh two thousand one where you had that Saturn Pluto opposition and. That's last time I've seen that level of just like a palpable a fear that people have surrounding what's happening in the world. And this feeling like there's events outside of their control which are happening in sort of conspiring against them. In some way that's feeling being swept up by larger forces that are just beyond us and that's actually an interesting comparison between the full and new moon positions the opposition at nine eleven and the conjunction. Now compare that to the intervening waning square that correlated with the great recession and had your honest involved that there was also a level of fear and worry around the economy. People losing their homes also around. Nor how are we going to managed care bills to eat and so on but it wasn't I think collectively the same level of kind of sweeping fear of something beyond human structures like the economy crashing human structures. And yes a lot of what we're seeing now is the fault of human structures to in healthcare and An economics and so forth. But it's also a virus and something that's really beyond our structural control in that way yet evidently because of actual deaths like deaths on a scale that you people are not used to imagining and the immediate threat of dealing with your own mortality. That comes along with that. I mean on nine eleven. It was the sudden death of over two thousand people or three thousand people over the course of a single day Which brought that sort of immediacy and now with this conjunction over the past few months hits you know even in the US alone. It's forty five thousand people dying over the course of a month suddenly and the same sudden immediacy of it and the questions about mortality. That sort of raises absolutely Even thinking of Jupiter being in the mix now and how Jupiter's magnifying and amplifying the effect and globalizing to the effective the spread of the virus. And so on the number the sheer number of deaths or at least infections to When compared to well who's going to say when compared to the event nine eleven but then when you take into account all the wars that initiated Sunday get sheer number of deaths as well as just spread out more on through time so that that really does mass death does seem to be a consistent Saturn Pluto theme whether it's the AIDS epidemic or the huge death toll of both world war or the Vietnam War that started under the opposition in the nineteen sixties. And so on definitely are This is good. So turn back to our Timeline so now we're in the timeline around looks like twenty thirty six. It looks like there's an exact opposition of Saturn and Pluto by degree with Saturn at twenty degrees of Leo and Pluto at twenty degrees of Aquarius. So this would be the halfway point through the cycle that were starting right now under the current conjunction feels very soon doesn't it? You're talking about like things like futuristic sounding dates. That used to be just the purview of like science fiction stuff like I think Terminator from like Nineteen Eighty four was originally set in like twenty twenty nine and that's when John Connor is like sent back into the into the past from the future. But that's really not that long from now. I guess that has to do with Pluto's orbit that Pluto's moving quickly right now so they're Saturn's catching up with it that doesn't make sense. I mean there are different periods when Pluto moves like more quickly or more slowly through certain signs of forget which one it is at the moment. But that's one of the reasons why the Saturn Pluto cycle varies so much between thirty and forty years. Yeah Saturn takes less time to catch up so it seems like this is going to be a shorter cycle overall than some others. I should look that up really quickly. But I think because I think Scorpio is one of the ones where it moves really fast through and if that's true because it's it's on an elliptical orbit may be Aquarius as one of the ones where Pluto slows down for which would mean that Saturn would catch up too much more quickly. This is throwing another Outer Planet Transit Cycle into the mix but around that time it gets ending twenty thirty five. The Century Long Neptune Pluto sex style is coming to an end and almost anybody that we know is still alive has that Neptune. Pluto suck style in their charts It's been there for many many decades and that is kind of an interesting balancing act. That's taking place behind the scenes between the transcendent spiritual religious numis arm imagination etcetera of of Neptune and plutonic underworld and depths and Sonic transformative elements and when those start moving apart gain. This is looking at something from the inside. I just wonder what is that. Gercy alike as that kind of harmonious balance between Heaven and Hell. We can even think of it. That way going on in the background starts to to shift. That's something that has been there since the forties right and so what you're for the sex tile you're using a six degree or or what or abusing for them while they've they've danced in and out of the definitely gotten further away than six degrees but I think the the first time coming within that six degrees to the last time leaving ninety years got okay. And so you're saying that's GONNA end sending around mid twenty thirty s boca cut it Let's see so back to Saturn's we have the Saturn Pluto opposition the halfway point through the cycle in the mid twenty thirty s and then it keeps going We're getting close towards the end of Pluto inquiries at this point and It looks like the next square. Might take place. After that sign change were Pluto moves into Pisces in the early to mid twenty forties. And it looks like we eventually get a square between Saturn and Pluto. Here when put us at Lake Zero Pisces and Saturn? Hit Zero degrees. A secretary is wow that one's GonNa be another Saturn you're honest. Pluto t square to like we had during the great recession during the Great Depression to. It'll be our time probably. Yeah because this is the final heart aspect in that cycle so this is the The Waning Square with Saturn and Pluto and is sort of like a culmination of that entire cycle in some way analogous to what World War One was at the beginning of that cycle to what World War Two was in some ways when it similarly started around the time of the Waning Square. Yeah exactly and then you're out. You're is there at twenty six degrees of Leo which is opposing Pluto at Zero Pisces. Squaring Saturn zero secretaries all right and then eventually the entire cycle will end when Saturn eventually meets up again with Pluto. Eventually in Pisces. Looks which looks like. It's taking place in the early to mid twenty fifties and eventually goes exact making sure it didn't go exact earlier it looks like really close. Oh Yeah no. It must go exact. Around June of Twenty fifty three is the first exact conjunction. This'll be an example. Three junctions yet. Looks like it because it looks like it gets very close. So it's happening at fourteen degrees of Pisces yet. And then it goes exact around the middle of June of twenty fifty three and then surely that's GonNa Retrograde yet that goes saddened goes retrograde falls back eventually stations direct in hits Pluto again in January February of Twenty fifty four. So yeah we're going to have three passes of that conjunction in the middle of Pisces around the mid twenty fifties but that will be the end of the current Saturn Pluto Cycle. That's to start over the past few years especially this year at the exact conjunction and it would be the beginning of a new cycle so the closing down in the wrapping up of whatever that Cycle was about over the course of thirty years and the start of whatever is to come over the course of the next thirty or forty years following that. Who knows what will be happening with technology and PODCASTS and our own lives but if possible. Let's touch base in the twenty fifty four and see what's happened okay. We'll do a follow up in thirty. What is that thirty four years time And follow up probably using virtual reality or something weird like a calendar are. I'll put it on my google calendar as well cool. Well thank you so much for joining me today. This has been a lot of fun. I'm just coming out of being sick and we decided to do this. As more of a free flowing not very well planned Thing but this actually worked out really well so thanks a lot for joining me today. Thank you so much as just so honored to be here really. Thank you awesome So where can people find out more information about your work? Or what sort of things do you have coming up? I have pretty much everything. I do accessible through my website. Which is it's just my name. Www DOT becker tournaments dot com and that houses all of my writings. And there's an events page videos and podcasts and so on and then I'm on the different social media platforms. I'm on twitter instagram. Again it's all my name Beck attorneys and as far as things that I have coming up. I'm really mostly focusing on teaching. I give astrological readings as kind of the main work that I do. But I'M GONNA be teaching him continuing to teach PACIFICA Graduate Institute and I'm offering a course in the fall with her teaching with my friend and colleague Chetty I know went to Kepler with you and We're GONNA be teaching on archetypal astrology and Trans personal psychology together. So that's definitely something that or each really looking forward to your that's offered through the philosophy cosmetology and consciousness program at CIS. That's the next wave is starting in the fall. yeah The program does both fall and spring admits by. This is a fall course. It's foundational course in terms of Anyone wanting to go on and study astrology and archetypal cosmology in more depth through that program. So if you're wanting to catch that wave yet. The next season of admissions is for the fall and applications are very much still open online program and residential program obviously conditions. They are right now. The online program is released driving new residential programs. Become the online program so see what continues to unfold. They're brilliant. That's really exciting. And your co teaching that with my old friend Laura Machete who I went to Kepler with Keppler graduate as well and we studied all of this in like someone of think we were the fourth year of Keppler students around two thousand. Three two thousand and four. That's she's finishing her PhD in that program. Right now. She is just about to defend. Wrap up and She has an amazing project that that she's been working on about Sami. Shamanism indignation mom. I have a very dear friend and were also colleagues. I've learned a tremendous amount from her in terms of strategy. Magic so for brilliant awesome. Well Good luck teaching that program or CO teaching it in the fall and I guess the last thing was people can pick up the current issue of the Archive Journal on Amazon. Or you can find more information about it on the website of what's the website again and website is our kyw Dot Org and that's just spelled A. R. C. H. A. I. And actually wanted to mention that that word archive is. It's the root word for archetype and it means I or first principles. So that's what the journalists named after to convey that that archetypal grounding for it. Yeah there's there's a lot of free articles available on the website too so people can really get a taste for what we're doing there. There's some really great free. Pdf PDF's and articles and excerpts from old journals Where you can learn a lot about archetypal astrology in in that entire approach. There's really create resources there. We're trying to be a a hub for a lot of different Archetypal resources and so on also cool all right. We'll check out website which is Becka tarnish dot com and Thanks so much for for doing this with me today. I really appreciate it and yet will have to check in again in thirty four years for me to thank you so much. It's really a pleasure. Alright thanks everybody for listening to this. Episode of the astrology podcast. And we'll see again next time. Thanks to the patrons who helped to support the production of this episode of the Astrology. Podcast through our page on Patriot Dot Com in particular shout out to patrons Christine Stone. Nate critic Merrin Altman and arena tudor as well as the Astros gold astrology APP available at Astra Google Dot. Io the Portland School of Astrology at Portland Astrology. Dot Org and the honeycomb collective personal astrological almanacs available at honeycomb dot co the production of this episode of the podcast is also supported by the international society fast logical research which is hosting a major astrology conference in Denver Colorado September tenth through the Fourteenth Twenty. Twenty more information about that. I saw twenty twenty dot org and finally also solar fire astrology software which is available at Elliot Dot Com and you can use the Promo Code. Ap Fifteen for a fifteen percent discount on that software for more information about how to become a patron of the strategy. Podcast and help support. The production of future episodes won't getting access to subscriber benefits like early access to new episodes or other bonus content. Good at Patriotair Dot com slash astrology podcast.

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The Skeptics Guide #740 - Sep 14 2019

The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe

1:35:21 hr | 1 year ago

The Skeptics Guide #740 - Sep 14 2019

"You're listening to the skeptics guide to the universe your escape to reality hello and welcome to the skeptics guy to universe today is Tuesday September Tenth Twenty nineteen and this is your host Stephen Avella joining me this week or Bob Novella everybody Cara Santa Maria Howdy Jay Novella. Hey Guys Evan Bernstein everyone welcome back from Africa not as saying it was awesome. I went to three countries so I had been to Namibia previously your it's really it. I'm such an idiot because somebody posted I was so tired and somebody posted on my instagram underneath a picture. I posted like Hashtag Namibia and they're like don't you mean Nambia and I was like no. I mean Namibia. I didn't even realize that that was like trump referential until later when I thought about it yeah I love Namibia. I've determined woman that like this just reinforced my love for Namibia. I think it's my country we went to Botswana to but someone who did not speak the same way but I still really enjoyed it and also a bit of time in South Africa and guess what I saw I did see lions because I did see lots of zebras. I did see struggles. I guess what else I saw penguin. I saw Pangolin Pangolin cool. They're very like they're very very shy. It's very rare to see what in the wild I actually went out with a guy who's doing pangolin conservation research and we tracked one but we didn't actually end up seeing her but I had the opportunity to go to you like a Rehab Facility Vet Clinic where they had just recently received a Pangolin that had been poached and so it was really sad like its claws were all broken broken like half ripped out because it was trying to claw its way out of a container yeah. It was really sad so they were doing treatment on its claws they would kind of give him a light anaesthetic and clean its claws and in two feet it so I was able to sit there while they were doing it and like touched it scales really like saw Pangolin up close. It was like amazing. I got a bit misty. Wow did you see capi did not there apparently even harder to seek yeah. I didn't see any Okapi. I saw a lot of of hoof stock zebras giraffes. I ate giraffe birth. I didn't love it didn't hate it. It was a bit gamy eh but it was like minced giraffe so they prepared it really well. My favorite is oryx and Kuru springboks early good too so I do them do they. I eat a lot of Bushmeat in Africa always like just a an exotic dish even there no so game is really common because I also think that wild game is like some of it is just you know hunted but also I at least for some of the antelope species and stuff they also farm them because it's kind of like if US eating venison and you know what I mean there's so many so much stock there so yeah a lot of times. If you're at a restaurant that's like a fast food restaurant or something it'll just be like beef and pork and chicken again. 'cause farming is massive but in nicer restaurants and also it lodges and things like that. It's not uncommon to be served game. I really like it too. It's so good and also built on very common which is kind of like kind of like what we would call beef jerky except there a lot of it is made out of game so you can taste a lot of different meats and they're dried so they last for a lot longer but it is hard. Wouldn't we went on a road trip which was really fun so rented like a kid now four by four so there's a rooftop tent that folds over and you just sleep in the tent on the roof and yeah it was really great. The truck has everything you need like cooking. Supplies is sleeping bags camp chairs and everything so you've got your own portable living arrangements which is really really helpful but the problem is when you cross from country to country you know they have to watch out for what's it called foot and mouth disease and lots of different cloven footed diseases and so you can't bring you have to eat all the me at you have in your fridge before you cross country boundaries which you know feel kind of arbitrary if you're a road trip but obviously their boundaries for the governments that have different laws so when we were driving from the Limpopo region of South Africa up through Botswana and then into immidiate across the Caprivi each time we stop were like do we have meat in the car crap. Please don't take it you know so there's just think about those things but there's as it was beautiful just so much wildlife obviously asli elephants and Rhinoceros Lions Cheetah. I didn't see a leopard this time I saw leopard last time and then this time I did see Buffalo Buffalo so I've seen the big five now which was pretty cool. What was your what was your number? One experience strangely because Botswana WanNa was not my leg. It's not my favorite country especially compared to maybe I really love Namibia but while I was in Botswana it just happened to be where I was in. When I was there the Botswanan sunsets on sets I think we're really incredible like at one point in the Okavango Delta I went on a boat ride in in part of the Delta that was in Moremi National Channel Reserve and so saw this sunset over the water in the middle of the Okavango Delta and just the sun is so big there? It's so big and it's so red and when it sets it's just it's like all the photos you've seen of African sunsets are just stunning and so that was really really fun. Yeah I've literally only been home for like a day and a half. I'm so tired or how they lack I spent thirty eighty five hours in transit but not that much not all that time in the air so basically because the road trip went from Joe Berg which is like the easiest place to fly to picked up the four by four and then dropped it off in Windhoek in which is the capital city in Namibia and then took a small plane from then took back to Joe Burke so it started with the Windhoek flight which is two hours than I had eight hour. Stay down in the Joe Burg Airport and then I think I could be wrong but I think it's like twelve hours to Heathrow had a few hours down in London and another twelve hours back to. La Rudolph leg it's getting to Southern Africa from from Los Angeles is hard. When you live on the east coast? It's a little easier because there are direct flights from New York to Jober and there I think eighteen hours so it's like one of the longest flights you can take but at least it's just one flight you get it over with for you. Guys going to southern. Africa is almost the same for me going to like news going to Australia yeah yeah direct but it's the longest flight you can take right and we're all GonNa experience that Together Zealand Australia here. We become coming from L. A. too so that'll be really exciting to welcome you guys to to kind of my city and do some gigs out here. I think it will be Super Fun when when we're in. La While we're really this is on November twenty third that Saturday we have booked a location for an extravaganza against Georgia is gonNA join us. We're going to do out there and then in the morning we're GONNA we're still working at the location details when we're going to also do a private recording of our show so la on November twenty third on that Saturday we're going to have those two events you know a private recording an extravaganza. We'll be flying in Friday night and then we're flying Saturday night and all day Saturday and we'll we'll hang with local skeptics. While were there also that'll be my mom's seventy first birthday very cool. Maybe she could come into town yeah. It'll be fun. God awesome all right. Let's dig into some news items Bob. You're going to start off by telling us about super lightning yeah. The results of a recently published study of fighting reveals some really new and interesting details but about what's CAU- not super lightning but super bolts this is from University of Washington studied daddy the lead writer is atmospheric and Space Physicist Robert Holdsworth from the College of Washington Holdsworth's noses lightning. He's been studying it for over twenty years. He also manages what's called the worldwide lightning location network. I was not aware of this. This is a hundred lightning detection detection stations all around the world six continents including Antarctica all over the place so when lightning is detected by three or more of these stations than they could really get upbeat on it and what they do is they compare the readings to determine the lightning bolts size and location. It's kind of like remember when you were a kid. Remember your you'd compare the the time difference between the arrival of lighting and then it's thunder and it's kind of it's kind of like that but actually it's not like that at all in fact that guys actually what they detect radio waves produced by the lightning and these are three thirty kilohertz so the study a ran from twenty twenty ten to two thousand eighteen so they got a good eight years they actually determined to location and timing of guess. How many lightning how many lightning strokes did they detect checked four thousand nine hundred twenty seven years? Oh one every second billions two billion well billions two billion to two billion. Yeah billions is correct but with only one hundred one hundred stations around the world two billion still. L. is sounds like a huge number. So what did they find. They found that of the two billion strokes that they detected a four million of a percent or one in two hundred and fifty thousand thousand strokes were confirmed super bolts. I was super bowl in this context is defined as releasing a the electrical energy of more than one million jewels jules so try of course I've got put that into perspective. That's that's about a thousand times the energy of an average of lighting okay that's one and one one way to think of this as the kinetic energy of two metric ton vehicle traveling at thirty two meters per second so this is a hell of a wallop and yes yes. I know a lot of you were thinking about it. This is the kind of bolt that thor hit Hella with about it hours so yes yes right. Does that help. Here's his was probably even bigger. You know maybe a million and a half. Maybe even two million Jews hard to say so Holdsworth said the average stroke energy energy over water is greater than the average stroke energy over land. We knew that but that's for the typical energy levels we were not expecting this dramatic difference so they knew knew about these these super bowls before these the fact that they existed were not new but the fact that they were today could be so dramatically strong was was kind of a surprise for them. They also found that the super bowls are most common in the Mediterranean Sea Northeast Atlantic and over the Andes and they've a Lesser Mr hotspots east of Japan in the tropical oceans and author tip of South Africa Did you see any care any of these super bowl super bowl. I didn't see any any lightning at all. Okay Yeah did not rain interesting because these bolts do do they do not encroach on the land you if you look at you look at the pattern Saturn of strikes for some for the Super Bowl they actually will outline the the coastline of of various countries because they they do you know they're pretty much to water phenomenon China and the other thing the other big thing that they determined was that we get most of our lightning here the the summer storms right we get the we get our weather in the summer in the Northern Hemisphere and we get a lot of our biggest lightning will happen then for these super bowls the big the big time of the year is November two to February. That's when that's when a lot of them. Mar will happen over over bodies of water now as opposed to the causes what actually why does this happen. Why is there this pattern? Why are they so much stronger? And why do they do they. It happened over over water. What actually is happening here? They're not really sure they think it might be related or Holdsworth thinks that it might be related to sunspots or cosmic rays and he says we're leaving that as stimulation for future research so hopefully in the future will find why these super bowls are what they are and so interesting. I saw this all over the news. I gotta get I gotTa do a deep dive on this to see what's going on with these super bowls so there you go. I guess there were questions. Do they know why they only occur over water annette land now for all the other research I did. I couldn't find any hint of why why was just they just happen even so I didn't see much like weather per se in an in southern Africa but guess what I did see a lot of cyclones water water sex no but dust devils cool yeah they're everywhere land cycle and I knew it was some kind of cyclonic activity. They crop up when you're driving you see them constantly. They crop up and they can be so tall. He's looking for drive through one. No but we've driven past is pretty cool. Yeah they're only see those little dust devils J. electrcity right her tell us about the latest on Lithium Ion batteries so what I decided added to do was take a little peek into the archive and see about some of the discussions that we were having about batteries and what I found was episode two thirteen where we discussed battery technology. This was a recording that we did ten years and one month ago so what's even more interesting interesting here is that we actually say on the show in two in two thousand nine that there's all of these promises of new battery technology but none of them are ever seem to be able to get out out of the laboratory and scale up to the consumer market so we were talking about all this battery hubbub even ten eleven years ago we were getting the beginnings of becoming. I'm very jaded about the whole thing and we were even saying ten years ago that we were acknowledging that we just have to appreciate these small yearly incremental all improvements that we're seeing this was ten years ago we were talking about this will care freshly back from Africa. I'm happy to tell you in particular my friend friend and Co host. We finally do have some legitimate real cool good battery technology news. Are you ready yeah. I know you're all sitting down. Tesla has conducted a three year test or they did three years of testing on their current lithium ion battery technology in order uh-huh provide a baseline of what batteries can do today so we can more accurately gauge how much battery technology improves over the coming years right pretty cool cool so the tests that they running over the past three years include long-term charge discharge cycling twenty forty and fifty five degrees Celsius long term storage at twenty forty and fifty five degrees Celsius high precision kilometer at forty degrees Celsius and several different electrolytes electrolytes are considered in this unbelievably chemically oriented graphite chemistry including those that can promote fast charging right now the reason reason for the cell performance degradation and impedes growth these are examined using several methods and they've concluded that the battery type that Tesla Hessel has been working on should be able to power and electric vehicle get ready for one point six million kilometers or one million miles and and last twenty years of course now now that means you still needs to recharge it right. It's a single yeah you have to recharge it range enj-. That's the life throwing throwing that out there decor standard like what's the life of the battery in my car. I mean no question Asian. It's probably not at this level but it's probably pretty good I will get up. Look it up but I would bet you that it's not like unbiased news using the supercharged degraded much more much faster but I think they tested that after ten years tenure with nine to ten percent. It looks like some sort of tests now there is another thing that it lost eight percent at seventy thousand miles doesn't sound too bad. That's that's okay but compared compared to this battery. It's it's it's not anywhere near this battery but let me make sure I have to clarify a couple of things now. They were talking about it. Lasting twenty years in a grid energy storage environment not in a car right because I think the movement of the battery actually does some internal damage and crack some of the textures that are inside that actually store the energy but one million miles is one million miles one point six million kilometers of driving that you know that that's twenty ears that that's I don't know how many years the battery would last in a car but that is a long time. I mean how many even longer than the car so right the rest of the curve all you all you need is far ars cars yeah you could you could junk your car and keep the battery for your next car. And what does this battery cost the you didn't get into any of that. I mean this is. This is a battery that they have when Killian dollars alerts battery battery exists it is it is our baseline battery. It's the Tesla Baseline battery. It's not like you know you. Will you know if if you get Tesla you're GonNa get this battery. The researchers have found that over three years of testing the Lithium Ion N. M. C. Five three two graphite battery cells have the potential Angela stay structurally sound long enough for cars to reach greater than one million miles when they say the potential. Is that like a term we should be taking closer. Look at potential number for one million but so anyway I'm I am legitimately impressed and happy. I'M NOT GONNA say I'm excited because you know my excitement where war way ten years ago but I'm I'm excited in a different kind of way like we have this yearly. Incremental improvement is finally gotten to the point. Where it's it's good now? It's good good we can we can put these batteries and cars and they're going to last a long damn time as long as it's affordable yeah that's wonderful yeah now. They're going to go and Tesla's I mean you're going to buy a twenty to to forty thousand dollars Tesla and that's going to power their their baseline car. Yeah okay great but jails WANNA point desert all of those news items that were frustrating frustrating you ten years ago because they made these bold promises that you think we're never realized a lot of those and we've talked about this. A lot of those quote unquote breakthroughs throughs contributed to the incremental advances. We've been seeing every year over the last ten years then here. We are it's ten years later and lithium. Ion Batteries are a lot better than they were ten years ago. They have larger arrange their more stable. They have a greater life expectancy that tech incremental improvements in that tech have added up quite a bit over the last decade just like solar panels. The incremental improvements have added up every year so so I think we had to shift our expectations. We shouldn't be waiting for a breakthrough. Even though that would be more exciting it's more we just have to be content with the incremental advances every year. They add up more quickly than you think you know they. They're cumulative and so here we are. We're basically here over getting really interested in electric twenty years ago and the tech just wasn't ready for prime time at at that point the rangers were really low. Obviously you want them to be even better still and they will. They'll be better next year. They'll be a little better the year after that in another ten years it'll would be awesome compared to where we are today as well as great as the twenty million miles whatever that that's great but I would I would whack back back sixty percent of that longevity if they had if they just had a nice nice chunky increase in the energy density of these batteries. I mean imagine three hundred miles on a charge that's great and that was I kind of like the milestone right if you're if you get over three hundred or two fifty the that really makes it a viable option for lots of people and and that's great but imagine if it was eight hundred or a thousand miles on a charge of you know if we had a huge spike in in the energy density that that we can have these batteries we would we would be an amazing that would really start bringing people a lot. More people in twenty years is great but I would take ten years with you know with a with a much greater raider rage but you know it's a balance you know it's all comes down to a balanced and great longevity is fine but I'm just waiting for that. You know that some never going to be about now. What do you think is what's the average age of car on the road today in the US and then she's been four year every or average ears average average age of a car or four four is a good year? The average age of car seven years eleven year ooh wears off right the average yeah but you could also think that there's probably a lot of new cars and then there's a handful of crazy vintage cars. I mean that would drag the average minister. That's partly yes but there's still gotta be a ton of fifteen sixteen seventeen year old cars out there. I averaged eleven years so twenty years is about right. If you want that Kodak Battery to last as long as a car you yet you need twenty year batteries about what you need and also think about this Bob Electric cars man. They don't have moving parts you know in the engine itself. They are lower maintenance. Don't they have a lot more longevity Dan yeah and so you owning an electric car for twenty years have become the norm you know be quite a change yeah because most people do what I do which is just lease right because the technology changes so fast. That's true consultancy part of the curve yeah but Bob. You're never going to be happy. The thing is like I got to give you a list of things that were making me. Ecstatically happy dude but your point is. It's like when we get you right now ten years off. You just got that range over three hundred three hundred fifty miles man then that'd be good you know and here we are like Oh man. I want that ring. Should we eight hundred nine hundred thousand. There'd be like imagine if we had a twenty thousand mile range car. It's like like if you do surveys. Everybody thinks they would be happy if they were making twenty percent more money than they are. Now whatever they're making it doesn't matter it's a relevant your your salaries are relevant and you've all relevant. I won't be happy until we're near the limit of physics in terms of like okay even can't couldn't help us with this one. You are choosing to be unhappy a now. I mean there's a lot of very happy but it says batteries on what what makes it what makes it extra frustrating is that there is a lot of a lot of money going into battery research and it's such a tough nut to crack. It's it's still these little incremental changes and we've got. We've come a long way but I mean you know we're not. We're not there yet like the like that battery that wall that was a call the power power wall power wall. I mean that's great but it's it's not quite there but that I love the idea of having a huge battering in the house. That's that's great. I mean I'd rather have a fusion reactor buried under the ground like a power around my house for a half a century but we'll get there yeah you want you want to win the lottery instead of investing in a in a conservative safe investment that make sure predictable percentage every year. I WANNA see alive with one call amazing breakthrough like like fusion reactor that would be amazing mazing. Just give me one cool one right fusion nanotech but hey I'll give you need to you Jay. Cellphones smartphones are amazing tech. I I never without my phone. I love it. I'm addicted to it. Maybe even a little obsessed but that's an awesome bitter technology. Do what you have at your fingertips is is incredible so I'm very happy your cell phone instantly. We instantly took for granted right. There's another one that cares going to be talking talking about in a few minutes and that's crisper about that but before we talk about that for we're talking about crisper. We're going to talk about near death experiences. Yes there's been sort of a breakthrough in indy research not really kind of just told us what we already know rigorous way away so some researchers did an interesting study looking at a what they call neuro chemical models of near death experiences princes so they made a comparison between anecdotal accounts of people experiencing and psychoactive drugs and anecdotal accounts of people experiencing near death experience and they wanted to see first of all how similar similar were they and second of all which drug it was the most similar so they looked at fifteen thousand reports of people bowl using one hundred and sixty five different psychoactive substances and compared them to six hundred twenty five a. n. d. e. near death experiences brings narratives. They didn't basically a linguistic analysis like which reports used the most similar words describing having their their experience any of you care or maybe you have a guess as to which drug cattleman ketamine that's right I I. I've heard that I've read that for for many years. I think the first time I heard about it was in reading about Vietnam they were using it for for injuries and they were inducing out of body experiences in their head to stop using because people like freaked out but yeah so I've done ketamine before yeah it's so I mean it's classified. I think is associated anesthetic right. Eh Yeah so when you take ketamine and you take it in a large enough quantity which I did which I probably shouldn't have done but I took it with people who had been who had probably had more experience with the drug so I wanted to try a little bit and they were like that won't do anything you should take this much. This is a good dose and it was obviously too big of a dose so I went into a a lot of people will colloquial colloquially call k hole and that actually is I think that is sort of near death experience thing that we're talking about so my experience this was that I was completely paralysed and I remember yeah. I remember feeling a little bit lake. I can't tell if I can't move or if I'm so I I feel so intensely that if I do move a puke everywhere so I need to sit really really still because like it feels like if I move something bad what happened but probably I couldn't move and I had an experience I was with a friend of mine. We were lying on a bed in a party and we felt like we compared notes after like we had been lying still but floating around the house listening to people's conversations wow so we had that dissociated experience of leaving leaving our body floating around the house and I think probably because I was an atheist and because I knew I would say I had taken the drug. I wasn't afraid I was dying but that probably is what people talk about when they talk their body. That's that's my yeah so that that tracks with the research and so the Ketamine Ketamine is a an MD a receptor antagonists. That's how it works. It is probably just an endogenous anesthetic and and it does get classified as associated anesthetic. It's actually really safe in that. It doesn't make you stop breathing opiate stoop so it's a lot better than opiates so it's also really good did wartime and the static as well because you could just give it to people in that worry about the dose and not worry about them stopping breathing and if they freak out that's like they have a lot worse things to worry about in the middle title of war than a little out of body experience so it's it's still popular for military use. It's also more recently it. It was discovered and Yale researchers. I happen to be involved in this research. It was discovered that it's a very effective antidepressant. Wow why hi it's especially for people who are treatment resistant right yeah. Do they know why Steve What's it doing. Well not really sure because main main activity is the enemy a receptor antagonists but it probably has other activities as well and we don't. We're still trying to sort out what those are so. It's a very interesting very interesting drug to the fact is so you know obviously for interpreting the the implications of the end e experience. That's redundant the at the end e e yeah an NDA mistake yeah what your pin pin number so if you can induce use the same exact experiences with drugs yes and certainly implies that this is a brain experience and not some kind of spiritual experience and that's that's a good rule of thumb. This gets back to understanding that the brain constructs your experience of reality of yourself your connection to your body your separation from the universe. These are all things that are circuits in your brain are doing and if you disrupt those circuits that alters the way your brain rain constructs your experience of reality in ways you're not you would not be aware of unless you read neuroscience right just would not intuitively. There's nothing in your life experience that would give you any intuition about how your brain constructs reality for you and how would break down if you know we start turning off the appropriate circuits so therefore you know if you experience something that's outside of of the range of your normal everyday experiences like things feel different to you. It's probably because you're there's something changing the way your brain functioning although we intuitively interpret that as a supernatural experience says something external instead of internal yeah exactly ah this this experience hyper real or hyper emotional or whatever it's it's out. It's something really spectacular about this experience. CARRIAN's therefore reality must be different while I'm experiencing but that's the conclusion that everybody has you know just an intuitively rather than saying my brain must be constructing reality differently for me right now but that is clearly the better interpretation Russian is just not the one that we intuitively come to probably because you know what I suspect is that the brain evolved mammalian brains evolved to create in the illusion of reality right so the almost by definition has to construct reality so that we experience it seamlessly and therefore that seamlessness about how we perceive perceive reality in ourselves etc means that we by definition cannot cannot detect the process itself and it makes it really hard for us to believe yeah okay. We can't even think about it. Let's realized you can't even think about things things that you don't have the neurological capacity to think about and I've probably mentioned on the show for example like if somebody has there's a phenomenon a neurological phenomenon called Ano- SEC nausea which is which is the inability to detect that you have a deficit because the the party your brain that you would need to to sense the deficit is the part that's not working how interesting so as Cop Gross Syndrome a version of that. That's the one where people like syndrome where they think somebody's like replay somebody else and they just can't believe that it's really so yeah. That's I'm not sure if that's an example of to be honest with you because they'd be but it might be but that is a deficit of the emotional connection between leaned our visual system and end the LIMBIC system right so when we identify an object visually the visual cortex makes a match and if it's something that has agency then we connected to our emotional center to see what we think about it we'll be feel about it connected connected to other memories about it and if that connection is broken so you would see somebody thing yeah you would see somebody recognized but not feel anything about them and and people will interpret that lack of feeling as well that can't be that person like if I see my wife and it does not provoke. All of the normal feelings is so bizarre but definitely people are the shit out of them. Could people assumed that the world is broken not that broken that like it's an invasion of the body body snatchers shed light because I guess even if you explain it to them. They're like I get it cognitively but I can't get passed out feel exactly so other examples would be if you have a certain certain kinds of Asia which is a problem with language and you may not know that you have a problem with language and so patients think that the world is broken right so like I had a patient tells me that the phone doesn't work when they find they could operate it or they think everyone is speaking a foreign language not that there had they have a problem with language but then suddenly surrounded by people speaking this unknown foreign language or if they or they may be the most dramatic examples if they have a left left sided weakness for example because of a quarter lesion on the right side they can't sense that they have an inability to move and so they can't even think about that side of their body. How tastings think they're fine? They think they're fine. But how can you help people to show them that. Something's amiss well. You can't sometimes Asahara and but sometimes you just have to adapt like with hemispheric neglect sometimes you just have to like turn their interplay so that they'll eat on the other side of it but in the other side you essentially have to wait for the brain to rewire itself in the acute sub acute phase of the lesion. There's nothing you can do. They literally lacked the neurological capacity capacity to think about with a part of the world that contains the deficit well. Do you remember that Oliver Sacks like one of his books. He wrote about like a super rare experience. Where there's somebody ready? I think he was in like he was institutionalized and every night he would land on the ground out of his bed. Every night. The nurses would have to put him back in bed and they realize is that the reason he kept falling out of bed is he wake up and he thought that the leg there's a corpse leg in the bed but it was actually his own leg and so he'd throw it out of the bed every single night and like refused to understand that that's his own leg because it didn't feel like it was a part of his body yeah. That's another part of it to help patients that have that Steve in fact. There's a classic tests to see if they have a critical stroke you hold up their arm in front of them into whose arm is this and they will invariably say that your arm Oh. Oh Gosh that's and you call that helping them and I'll tell you I diagnose a dog diagnostic test. After weeks of Rehab you know in the brain plasticity city kicking in you can you can get them to understand intellectually that it's their own arm and Bam therapy to Rehab Yeah because because there's an an ownership module in your brain is a circuit in your brain that tells you that part belongs to you and if you if that's broken then you think it doesn't belong to you but again the interesting the thing is that you think the world is broken into the brain is broken and that's you know that that applies to near death experiences where people are experiencing are not atten otherworldly supernatural experience. They're they're experiencing their brain networking whether it's due to medication or due to the hypoxia associated gated with near death experience which is the other thing. Is that why this fits is that Ketamine may have neuro protective effects meaning that when the brain is dying releasing similar endogenous chemicals maybe neuro protective but also happened to have these out of body type effects and that which then people interpret spiritually so it's a it's a safety is trigger for the brain basic yeah desperate attempt to minimize damage to brain cells during some kind of catastrophic event. I Love I love conversations like this because it makes me think what modules don't humans have that would allow us to conceive imagine things that in the universe that we that will be forever lost to us until we could augment ourselves. You know what I mean like teaching dog Algebra tapper type of thing that something that's not the smartest dog ever will never understand Algebra but what is it what modules are circuitry in our brain. Do we not imagine the Fourth Dimension Jeff Was it right angles to reality you could only yeah used to do science journalism for the Huffington post did a lot of videos and I interviewed a lot of physicists and it was when I really I started trying to cover scientific areas that I had zero oh you know background or expertise and so every time I interviewed a physicist I would always ask them if they can see or understand the world in multiple dimensions like if they have some sort of skill that I just don't possess and obviously everybody said no except for Jason I mean he was like he was like pulling my chain for everybody. It was like no. I can't see any more than you can. It's just the mathworks but neal was totally like you're not in the club like sorry. You can't import informative man well everyone. We're taking a quick break from our show to talk about one of our sponsors this week bubba socks. When is the the last time that you actually looked inside of your sock drawer? 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We'll warm and naturally moisture wyking Merino wool designed with all of Bombay's classic comfort features from keeping cool and dry on your morning run to stay in comfortable in your offices freezing air conditioning like my office bombed the songs are ready to work as hard as you do buyer Bomba's at Bambas Obama's dot com slash skeptics today and get twenty percent off your first purchase that's be. Om Bs dot com slash skeptics optics for twenty percent off guys. Let's get back to the show. All Right Cara tells about those crisper studies that were that were doing yeah so crisper we all remember we talked about this recently like the trials. I shouldn't even call them trials the rogue experiment basically that was done in China on the twin girls that was supposed to supposed to prevent them from getting HIV pass down. Which of course we know that there were better treatments is there's a lot of ethical concerns about that? So crisper is one of these really interesting technologies where we're not going to do a deep dive into crisper because we've done that like a thousand times on the show at this point but it's one of these really interesting technologies where like it's the bleeding epoch of amazing things that could happen but there's also so many ethical concerns around it so what I wanted to do is on the back of a cool article that I read in Smithsonian Sonian talk about some of the human trials the first ever human trials that are slated to happen within the United States utilizing allies in crisper technology so there's kind of different buckets we could we could slice and dice this a few different ways. Ha that was kind of a crisper joke but not really so one of them is it's a really interesting trial utilizing crisper to try entry a certain type of inherited blindness. It's called Lieber. I don't know if it's Lieber or Leber L. Lebron's resolved atrophy lieber congenital morose so probably seemed dude Elsa and this is a type of inherited blindness that happens in childhood and patients are often very very young when they're first diagnosed with this so in this trial there want to include patients that are as young as three this one is in a special camp into itself because it's actually the only crisper trial sort of on the horizon that plans to in Vivo crisper changes so this is going to be an injection an infection you could even say of an Adenovirus Adenovirus into the back of the Retina to actually effect a change with in the photoreceptor genome in these very specific locations locations the ideas that it would go in using cast nine to fix this the treatments called Edit Wanna one but to fix this portion of the the genetic mutation. This is an interesting and probably a good candidate for crisper trial because Lieber General Morose is actually caused by a single genetic connectik mutation so the idea would be that would go in and yeah effect change their fix the mutation and hopefully re-grow some of these faulty faulty photoreceptor and when I say photoreceptor of course I'm talking about rods and cones within the retina so hopefully we grow some of these cells so that the certain percentage of them become normally enough to cause or lead to an increase in visual acuity in these individuals they've done previous studies in primates and also also in donated human retina and they did see some interesting changes with very few off target change so now they're moving into. I think it's a phase one trial they didn't specify in this article which ones phase one and which ones were phased to but they do say that all of these are phase one and two trials so Steve. Maybe you can just before I dive into the other one's a quick quick refresher on what happens in a stage one in a stage two clinical trial because we're talking like does it work into hurt you right yes so the phase one in phase two so oh you're sorry I keep seeing stage phase one phase one is just a includes mainly safety. Just WanNa make sure drop dead and that's important pharmacodynamics from ago kinetics like you know they give people different doses. He metabolize it see what their blood levels are of see what the half life business basic nuts and bolts bioavailability you know just of the pharmacology itself and then they'll do start to do some basic like mixture of the kidneys. Don't Oh fail there's no liver enzymes are pumping up just a whole battery of of safety testing. EKG Just to look at all the organisms make sure there's GonNa Organ Toxicity with occasion. That's phase one if it safe in humans go to a surf as to where you might do more safety testing and you might start start to incorporate some preliminary like open label efficacy like say anything is having any effect that that we're looking for and then phase three is when you do a the multi center placebo controlled double blind clinical trials looking to establish advocacy advocacy. Yes so basically like in phase two. You're saying like it does at work and in phase three you're saying does it work better than what already exists while no like phase two is still safety Manley's Oh really and just preliminary does eleven area. Does it work yeah but but the definitive efficacy is phase three and then phase four post market right. That's Gotcha when you're saying all right now. How does it work out there in the real world which is kind of well? I guess it's scary. It's also part of the problem is you're going to do it exactly that you can only have so many patients involved in a study eventually. It's gotta be opened up so these are all one in face case to trial so basically we're just scientists are just trying to understand. Is this harmful often already done this in some level of animals or like donated tissue and other WanNa see like is it harmful or is it safe for these individuals do that and then the move on and we're talking timelines of Lake. You know some of these trials just phase one or phase. Two trials are set to go on until twenty thirty something like some of these are really long trials to keep that in mind also keep in mind that the the one I told you about visual impairment that is the only Christopher trial on the books right now in humans in America that is set set to utilize an in Vivo so like within the the patient's own cells inside their body methodology everything after after that is actually in vitro meaning that they're going to either take the patient sells out of their body and do the changes to the cells like in a petri dish and then put them back in or or they're gonNA use donated tissue make all the changes to that donated tissue and then put that donated tissue back in okay so it's like a little bit of a different vibe so there's a couple of different cancer once I don't we'll get to those last but the next one that I wanted to just do a quick and dirty on was first sickle cell disease which is super interesting. We've heard of sickle cell. We know that that causes anemia but also a lot more than anemia like pain and that's because of the shape of the red blood cells that are caused these hemoglobin clumps is red blood cells that are supposed to be smooth within round actually become sickle shaped their sickle cells and they can cause all these blockages in the in the blood vessels also really stiff and step the flexible very flexible tweets through capillaries. The sickled cells are not flexible so they get stuck yeah and it causes all sorts of horrible things right your bloody supposed to flow and flow well get. It's really painful yeah and so it's it's a really interesting thing right because because it has to do with haemoglobin right the actual genetic change affects the hemoglobin protein hemoglobin gene and so we've got two different apparently or maybe more than two but we've also got a gene for fetal hemoglobin so what we are talking about with sickle cell is usually Beta-globin aglow Beta-globin but fetal hemoglobin actually doesn't have any effect on sick alling and so the idea here is to actually boost the production of fetal hemoglobin in these individuals alter it so that the fetal hemoglobin actually more of the sights on the hemoglobins Sir Molecule and then it can lower the likelihood of the actual cell that contains hemoglobin to change shape type which is really interesting so the idea here is that they're going to do chemo on their bone marrow cells and then inject these edited stem cells goes into the patient through an infusion and then there's like a cut off like they want to generate twenty percent or more of the fetal hemoglobin in an effort to sort of like bump out enough of the Beta to prevent significant changes apparently like at a certain level there aren't as many symptoms so it's not gonNa completely you know get rid of the sickle cells but it's going to minimize the number of cells that sickle Oh and that hopefully we'll actually give relief in symptoms so that's kind of an interesting approach and then the other ones in this article they they talk about them as two different trials. It's probably 'cause they're being led by two different people but I'm going to lump them together just to make to make things easier so there are also trials in place for cancer purposes which we knew I I think early on this was going to be a big part of the crisper sort of revolution so there is a T. cell trial that's going on in an effort for it to extract T. cells from the blood of individuals and then make edits of those t cells and it would prevent it would do like two different things so it's like multiple edits. The idea is to modify the T. cells to make them better at doing their job which is being a good immune cell in fighting cancer but there's a secondary modification secondary edit that would actually cause these modified cells to target cells with a certain marker and in making that target. It's going to help sort of like be more specific in the in the cancer targeting and so this this one is for people with multiple myeloma. Actually I think this is like multiple cancers yeah because there's multiple myeloma. There's the sarcoma so this this is just very specific to the patient's own cancer because it's utilizing the patient's t cells and then the other cancer trial that is also underway and these are all in recruitment phases right now how or stages mixed phasing stage again is a utilizing donor sal so it's not using the patient's own T. cells but it's utilizing donor cells to inject them into the patients to help with relapsed or non responsive non-hodgkin's lymphoma and so the difference here is that the cells are coming from somebody else and then they're being edited and then they're going in and so it also has a two tiered approach one is to target these cancers like by editing these T. cells but the other one of course is to prevent the patient from rejecting the donated t-cells so there's some really interesting stuff underway and I think that this is only the beginning. I think we're going to see of course specific genetic diseases being targeted in these kinds of trials and definitely I think we're GonNa see cancer research being really really ramped up in like a major way and there's hope on the horizon but also I think you always have to temper that with like these ethics committees are very very important and we have to make sure that this isn't too much too soon because I think everybody gets very very excited about the possibility and the potential for good reason but also we need to remember that this is a very powerful tool and that we don't know what's going to happen. We think we know but we need to make sure that we're doing everything by the book and keeping up with every step of the game so that we can make sure for that. If some sort of like you know the fact that we didn't know about starts to precede that we superpowers well. You know it's interesting. I mean it's is not interesting research but it's interesting this idea in this article they actually talk about clinical trial a clinical trial in one thousand nine hundred nine so this is way before crisper but it's gene editing so we've had the potential to do gene therapy gene gene therapy gene editing for quite some time now it's just kind of cheaper and more targeted with crisper and a little bit easier but they did a gene therapy phase one trial at a famous patient patient named Jesse Gelsinger eighteen and this is a big thing that stopped the research didn't attract stop the research seven the tracks they uncovered all sorts of ethical concerns about like conflicts of interest and who was involved in the study and did they pull the trigger too soon and did they. You know what why why did they make those decisions and it really made a lot of people stop and think. Are we moving too much too fast and do we want it to happen so badly that we're cutting corners to make it happen and faster and that's the thing that I think I don't think anybody here is trying to be nefarious is just want to see people get well and so yeah. I'm very excited about this. I think a lot of people are very excited about this but also I think we have to make sure that we're doing it the right way and it seems like hopefully the individuals who are involved in these really groundbreaking breaking trials are doing that. They're following the ethical guidelines of any other drug development is just happens to be really cool and editing the genes of these people and just like all other technology and still going to ultimately be incremental it can take a logger time and it seems upfront these clinical trials just take years. That's just the way it is and somebody could decades yeah but this is like moving faster than most new technologies is amazing. Isn't it Steve It is but AH I hope that we're going to start to see like major genetic diseases or diseases that have a major genetic component start getting knocked off one by one as we can crisper spur our way out of it means the potential is amazing right Elliott is one of the most transformative technologies that come out out and in our lifetime Bob Yeah it's true it's absolutely true almost as transformative as that new research evident to holy water right. It's this is going to transform medicine. Sorry Cara this. This news story is gets the best of your crisper new in eighteen fifty eight. We're going back to the village of lowered and not Lords. I figured out today it's Lord Boards all by everyone says Lords let everyone in America Care Era so the village of Lord it rose to prominence both in France and around the world due to the claim that a local peasant girl named Bernadette Bernadette Superhero had seen an apparent operation of the Virgin Mary not just once apparition apparition. I said apparition sorry it's pronounced apparitions. Try that again. Local Peasant Girl Bernadette Soubra saw an apparition of the Virgin Mary as yeah but she didn't see just once she saw eighteen times over a span of several weeks February and March of that year now particular particular to today's news item on February twenty fifth eighteen fifty-eight young Bernadette explained that the vision told her to drink the water of the spring to wash in it and to eat the herb that grew there apparently this was supposed to be an act of penance. Not eating herbs may have something to do with the visions but that's it's us more of a side note. The point is not long thereafter the city with the sanctuary of Our Lady of Lords and that's what the apparition is named named it has become one of the world's most important sites of pilgrimage and religious tourism bucolic facts Lord hosts six million visitors. There's every year damn it has only second to Paris is far as the most tour the biggest center of Tourism in France and is the third most important site in all of Catholicism besides Rome and the Holy Land Lord is third on that list said yeah in a way in a way it is sad but the news in any case is this. Here's the head here's one headline I read today man from Britain who believes Lord holy the water cured his cancer is going to have his claims tested by a board of doctors. Wow his name is Kazakhstan back in one thousand nine hundred sixty five. He thought his life was over when he was diagnosed with an inoperable tumor on his spinal cord and he was just eighteen in years old at the time but with determination and some considerable skepticism from his doctors that could even endure a trip from Britain to France France he managed to make the trip partook in the bathing and it took place on September eight nine hundred and sixty five and supposedly that's a very important date because Catholic celebrated as the birthday of the Virgin Mary Happy Birthday Kazic claims to have experienced a miracle after he bathes in the water and it enabled him to walk for the first time in months because of its reporting healing properties he's still alive. He's still alive. He's seventy seventy one years old now and he's returning to Lord to see if his miracle is GonNa be verified by get this the International Medical Committee of of Lord which is comprised thirty doctors holy crap and Pun intended there. They have a medical committee to determine if if a person experienced a healing miracle of some kind that is that is something all right. Here's the criteria by which these doctors way in this this today. Oh yes that's right okay yeah. This is not in the eighteen hundred no no this. Is this today's headline Eh it's happening right now. As we speak basically so these doctors for a cure to be recognized as well they call it medically inexplicable. They're not allowed to These doctors are technically not allowed to determine if something's a miracle that is for the Catholic Church to decide through their own rules and regulations what they do is they recognize conditions as medically inexplicable and in order to be to to have it recognized as such you have to establish these facts. Here's is there little checklist. The original diagnosis must be verified and confirmed beyond doubt the diagnosis must be regarded as incurable with current means and the cure must happen in association with a visit to Lord typically while in Lord or in the vicinity of the shrine itself although you don't have to drink the water and you I don't have to bathe in the water those are not required the cure must be immediate. The cure must be complete and the cure us be permanent no recurrence recurrence no backseat Novak's so a full investigation takes a minimum of five years. That's in order to ensure that the curious permit it may take as long as ten or twelve twelve years for any given claim this one has gone quite a while if the claim was made in nineteen sixty five and only now twenty nine thousand nine. They're they're dealing with it so it's it's had a lot of time and they vote it becomes a vote and if two thirds of the doctors say it's inexplicable then it's inexplicable than it's it's handed off to the church and they decide if it's going to be a miracle or not so since then about seven thousand people have claimed to have been healed in some way by their visit to Lord only seventy have been deemed both medically inexplicable and a miracle by the church right so the one on the one hand we have to question the legitimacy of the process and does it hold up to independent verification. It sounds like the answer's mostly no but the other thing is after how many people have visited Lord millions million six million alien a year. It's up to six million a year. You have seventy cases so what's the probability out of the millions and millions of cases that there's going to be some you know residue of unusual inexplicable cases. It's like the really good. UFO sightings yeah you got millions leads a crappy ones and is going to be this little residue of ones. That just happened to be really unusual despite statistics alone for if you're somebody who thought that they were real l. that's still is horrible odd. It's still a million to one or something thereabouts bright. They are going to be healed so again. Most it's basically consistent with like there not being any magic right. That's exactly what you would expect. If Visiting Lourdes did nothing all right. Thanks seven Yep Yep so just a quick quickey follow up because we talked about this previously that the idea of doing DNA analysis of an environment in order to tell all the things that they're remember this. We talked about doing this in the Loch ness short to take the water and you can just basically see what DNA is in the water so they recently study was completed doing DNA analysis of Loch Ness and keep in mind. This was actually a serious ecological investigation. They were really asking like what lives in in the lock and the whole idea of looking for the Loch ness monster was just sorta a gimmick. You know they really just wanted to see what ecologically speaking what's living there. They didn't find anything that was mysterious all right so there was no like unknown large reptiles or anything that could actually be a lock ness monster not that we have any source material uh-huh no please you source or anything like that. What they did find was a lot of emails so this of course leads to the analysis at the headlines that the Loch ness monster maybe giant he'll say scientists like that really what they're saying? There is no loch ness monster. They're just saying their heels in the lock and and that's something that the locals could tell you without the analysis right. They know that their heels in their sure God fishing. You'll out of there for many many many many years but there's just a There's maybe more than they realized that the DNA chose ubiquitous they are in the lock because they were in every location that they that they looked at those a lot of a lot of yielding so that's it I mean it's it's interesting that we now have the technology to do such a thorough survey of a body of water see what what's living being in there just by amplifying DNA. That's a really powerful tool. They also found human DNA in the in the lock and I degree yeah. I doubt that there's anybody living a lot but it just shows you that just an aquaman swimmers bathers or whatever you know people got in their DNA in a into the lock in there it is you know no big feet though no loch ness monster the stuff we really want nothing. CRYPTO tiptoes zoological to remember when we were in Scotland are amazing tour tour bus drivers you WanNa go to Loch Ness and we all started laughing and she was like what were like. Let's tell you a little bit about what we do know she w- she was happy because that's great because locked moment is so much better but everyone everyone wants to go to Loch ness and no take us to the prettier one. That's what we WANNA see. We don't care about you know we. We know we're not gonNA see Nessie. No she'd she and locked and Loch ness was also kind of off of our root for the day we would have had bad foreign miss some on it's full of tourists. It's yeah tourist trap. We probably wouldn't have got to Glenn Chorus and L. D. N. A. But they have a love hate relationship ship with the Loch Ness legend because it's like what every tourist thinks of the highlands were beautiful locker beautiful guys but it does drive Dr Tourism so it's kind of like the movie braveheart they have a love hate exactly movie it drives a lot of interest in in Scottish history and a lot of tourism but they hate the back then it was so historically inaccurate. What what are you GonNa do interesting though like the way they react to that and it was funny which is like thank God? I don't have to go to the lock. Gosh that was such a great trip would agree was Yup. We have an opportunity to visit the highlands definitely a place to visit well everyone. We're GONNA take a quick break for more show to talk about one of our sponsors this week. The Great Courses Plus Steve. Have you ever heard the phrase. You don't know what but you don't know well. Yes you have because I say to you all the time. The thing here is the great courses plus is the perfect place is to help you fill in those mental gaps you could do it with the great courses plus. It's true there are thousands of lectures on virtually any topic that you can think of their all oh presented by top professors and I'm talking about everything from human nature to space missions to even playing guitar and with the great courses plus APP it makes it easy easy to watch or listen anytime anywhere and this week we're talking about the course and introduction to formal logic by Professor Stephen Gamble this is a great course it goes over formal logic like relational logic introducing logical identity Jay. Do you know what modal logic is i. I do not three valued and fuzzy logic. If you don't know all of these words mean then you should definitely download and listen to this course expand and your mind sign up for the great courses plus and right now for a limited time. Only our listeners can get an entire month for free when you sign up using our exclusive euro the the great courses plus dot com slash skeptics. That's the great courses plus dot com slash skeptics all right guys. Let's get back to the show all right J. WHO's that noisy time last week? I played this noisy okay so apparently a lot of people guest amazingly correctly about this one. This may be the most responded noisy I've ever done and the most correctly guessed noisy I've ever done on this real quick. Go through a couple of of the wrong guesses. Jim Kelly wrote in this week's. Noisy is the sound of the fans in a wind tunnel starting up. I totally can understand Jim. Why you think that is what the sound is very good? Guess it's not correct but I could totally hear like that. Wind fan noise going on another listener named Joss Elias said Hey my first gas in. I've been listening for a few years. I've only ever heard a couple. I had a real guess sat I think this is possibly formula e. cars leaving the pit lane or slow speed corner somewhere on the track and he wants me to say hello to Cara and he's a amateur freshwater fish breeder in southern California. This was a good guests and I'll tell you why when I read the winner. You'll understand why that that that was a that so far off the Marquess so the winner from last week now. I'm GonNa say this that this thing this noisy occurs in many cities around the world may ah I have to say this because the person who guests didn't guessed the correct city that did guess correctly however right so you know I don't want to tie this to the city because of how how many places this is happening around the world so will Samuel said hi team the noise. This week sounds a good deal like the London Underground the ground. I think it's a train accelerating as recorded from the platform also heard similar sound on overground electric trains and in the Singapore Metro I suppose the electric motor must be connected to a gearbox many gears in it or something so yes you did win Samuel even though you got the city and the country wrong it it is an electric train so let me get back to fe or Murphy who wrote in he said so I love the show been listening for a few years finally got something less boring to send a ninety says so it is a it is a metro train but not just any electric train. I live in Sydney Australia and although we have a large larger size train network with about one hundred seventy five five stations the normal normal human train drivers this is operated by state government but in late May of this year new line of driverless Metro Metro trains was open to the public so the sound of one of these trains taking off for an underground station the new train lines only thirteen stations currently north west of Sydney. He keeps keeps going on but the sound he recorded as he was at work and he's currently working for the said train company and he said that the for transit fully automated the driver drivers regard there is a with no drivers regards on the train and when the train stops the platform as the set time the stay there and then the train takes off. It's a an electric train and this is what electric train sound like this is what the electric motors on train sound like. I had people guess Washington DC. I had people get tons of people from London. The London Underground London Underground. I heard so many times but I heard all over the world. These electric trains exist on this one happens to be Australia but indeed the winner was will good guess will will guest now Steve Check this out. He sent me the email at eleven fifty seven. AM on September seventh. What time did you publish that show at eleven am yeah so one of the quickest guesses of all time for WHO's that noisy so very good thought that was a lot of fun because he if he did listen as soon as it dropped he got right to that point which makes sense because I'm you know I usually do who's that noisy about twenty minutes before the show ends yeah unless we do emails so anyway great guests by everyone thanks for writing in? I got a lot of fun conversation out of quite a few people that were telling me interesting interesting tidbits about where they're from and why they know the noise. I have a new noisy this week and this week's noisy was sent in by a listener named Carl Commissioner. Tell me what you think of this one. I'm GonNa give you a little little information here. I would imagine that that noise it goes on for quite a while doing what it's doing whatever is happening and being done to whatever is being done to whoever whomever or whatever however must be that new lithium ion battery that lasts twenty years yeah imagine they last long time million miles I tat noisy scream when they so if you think you know what this noisy is or you heard something cool this week you can email me at. WTN AT AT THE SKEPTICS GUIDE DOT ORG Steve Yeah patrons patrons of the S G you are the wind beneath our wings because they help us continue new to do what we're doing in so many unbelievable ways so you know I'm dead serious when I tell you guys that patrons made it possible for me to work fulltime for the FDU and because of my working fulltime so many things have been able to happen and so much improvements in working on multiple different projects objects and I can't thank the patrons enough for for doing what they do there are perks to becoming an issue patron not only will you get all of our appreciation can help us continue doing the show we give our patrons different rewards or awards. I'm not even sure what we're supposed to be calling them but really get stuff. The rewards you get stuff depending on your level of contribution. I would like to please ask you if you've enjoyed the show and you had the ability to help support the work that we do then please please go to patriotdepot dot com forward slash skeptics guide and please consider at least go there watched the video and take a read on what we do and what what you could do to help us and what you might get back depending on your level. I have something else to say. Steve something great importance we will be in Australia and New Zealand doing lots of different stuff going to two different conferences hopefully meeting hundreds of people that we haven't met before and seeing a bunch of people that we had before at these conferences there will be multiple events events we will be doing at both conferences. We will absolutely be doing a private S. G. Show dates and locations are finally being finalized some of which were were happening during the recording of this show while I was sneaking an email off here and there to to talk to my friends that live Oh so far away from the United it states and they're they're getting up for work so this is a good time to be chitchatting with them so I really do fully intend on having the final information settled very soon for those private shows shows but please go to our website check out our events and under the are under the event you can see listing of the conferences and the the websites for those conferences and and all the details that they are continuing to add to those websites about other speakers so please consider going at the very least go check out those websites if your local and if you're not local and you want to go on an awesome trip go get on an airplane for crying out get out of that dungeon. Stop hanging around your parents the basement playing video games go to skeptical conference and meet your wife or husband or boyfriend or whoever and as Steve said we are going to be in Los Los Angeles doing these skeptics guide to the Universe and George Rob we combine are laser beams and become the skeptical extravaganza of special significance perfect. It's a one to two hour live comedy infused science and skepticism infused if used stage performance. Were we have a ton of fun. Lots of people have seen US do the show. The good news is if you've seen it. The show is never the same show twice because we have we rewrite everything the cognate always different the content is different. The bits could be the same meaning we could run the same Improv a bit but the content that drives the bit is completely different so there although we we are doing a major rewrite of the show this month so that if any future extravaganzas will be significantly different than the previous ones yeah. We've learned a lot the old bits that we can't reform but there's going to be a lot of new stuff we have one in particular that were Stephen. I are very excited about has to do with a wheel deal yeah. That's all I'm GONNA say so. Please come check us out that that event bright will be up soon as well. Everyone's gotta give me some time because Dragon UNCON- was all consuming Oh and by the way dragon con went awesome for all all hands on deck. It was great great time. It was great all right. Thank you Jason so guys. Let's move on to science fiction. It's time full science all fiction each week I come up with revised news items facts to real and one fake and I'd challenge way panelists cupcakes to tell me which one is the fake. We have a theme this week. I feel like I may have used this theme before but it doesn't matter I'm sure you have the theme. Is the Electric Electric View Yep. I knew it and I don't care all right. Here are three items about the electric. He'll I'm going I. I didn't remember one electric. EELS are not true eels but knife fish a group closely related to catfish that contains two hundred twenty species all have electricity producing organs. I'd never to electric eels are obligate air breeders coming to the surface for air and can drown they get stuck under water and I number the three the electric organ electric. Ill is entirely located under its Chin which it places on animals wishes to to deliver a maximum shock Jay. Why don't you go first all right this first one right out of the gate? The electric yields are not true eels fish wrong. Don't believe this. That's ridiculous. A knife fish is is a knife fish which is not related to or has anything to do with an electric deal. They probably don't even like each other so I am going to say that that that one is absolutely absolutely false. I don't even have to go to the other ones that one is fiction but I will say electric deals are obligate air breeders that I didn't know and I and I I know nothing of whether that's true or not and the last one the electric eels Oregon is electric. Bill is entirely located under its Chin that makes perfect sense to me because you know if you watch star wars the the return of the Jedi when the emperor is shooting lightning from his fingertips. You could see him smile L. Invoking his Chin Electric Organ Action. That's worthy electricity was coming from thank you very much for science. I will move completely back to the first one and say that that's that's bullshit knife fish or fish thank right. Let's see the airbridge make sense. I don't have reason to think that that's wrong so I'll just go with that one. The Electric Organ Sounds Weird under its Chin but I really just can't you know how could I dispute Jay's Star Wars explanation nation so he really really convinced me on that. Anything left to go with a knife. Fishes is fiction. I mean what else have no choice Okay Evan Kevin J convinced me J. That was the most convincing science fiction ever killed it they. I'm so I'm so with you. I'm Jay Okay and lemming number four Keira wait so you guys all think it's the knife fish one apparently Jay talk. Have you ever seen knife fish that's not I can't say that I have were having because that would give you an unfair advantage in this game beautiful Paul Okay so there's a beautiful fish called a black ghost knife so I'm assuming that's a knife fish and there you'll lake there long and they ripple when they swim him and they don't have fins or if they do. You can't see them so like why couldn't electric. You'll not be a knife fish. That one was like the first one that I was like yeah I by the the obligate air-breathing freaks me out because I had no idea that fish could do that but I think like the one that freaks me out. The most is the one about like some sort of Weird Oregon because I feel feel like you're not supposed to get near electric. Ill at all because they'll shock you from anywhere. That's what I always thought like that. They can shock you. It's like their skin or something so I don't know I don't know how they work at all but I thought like you could get that from their head from their tail from anywhere so I'm going to say that the organ one is the fiction. That's a shocking shocking answer. Yes Shit. It's GonNa be you better not be right Goddamn because all your Jane was gallivant for the last month while I studied science I feel like I did. I didn't study electric car. It's not sides. My biggest concern is that Steve just swept left us be to air breather because the everything really does bug me too but I don't like the obligate air breath. Don't even know what that it's not a five. I don't like the word air they breathed dissolved oxygen through their through their gills their fish from their head right down to their heels but I'm going to go with my shock Oregon on this and say that it's not the Chin thing because that's weird okay so you guys all agree that electric eels or obligation to air breeders to air no stuck and water but okay they only have to do is lift their chin out of the water. He's so excited right now. No I'm I'm not I'm actually is all science and this one is science. Thank you know sweet all right so Steve ESCO question yes do they actually have to stick their mouth out of the water you there yes it sucks. When you're fishy? She type it yields now. Let's this let let me give you a little bit of background. On Electric eels they live largely in South America. They eat electricity. Amazon was on the shockers a wet season and a dry season during the wet season. There's water all over the place the show that's overflowing and they're connecting all the lakes and they're flush with freshwater now. During in the dry season the rivers recede and the lakes can be isolated and there are also smaller so the eels roles can wind up in a lake that they can't get out of until the wet season comes back and and this late could be smaller and they could be susceptible -ceptable predators but most important for this item is that those lakes could be very oxygen poor yes right so now they're stuck in this port in as as low oxygen water supply everywhere their adaptation with Predator they evolved the ability to breathe air they bring to and they have come a this extensive vascular in their mouth and so they basically exchange air in their mouth questions yeah now why why in the Matrix did the artificial intelligences decide to use humans for batteries instead of electric eels. That's a really good question I would have used electric bills me to maybe in the in the fourth movie they'll address that I would use the fusion that they used to run everything else. I think I think the I did it just to screw with the human eye aggressed I do too. That's the only thing that makes sense. It is to pretense they were obsessed with their makers and they couldn't let it go yeah. Clearly what's going on right now. They're making the matrix if you don't know about this like nine clearly need to come hang out with you in Los Angeles and watch movies with you soon and definitely not talk about it almost eleven. PM What's funny my daughters when they watched the matrix they loved it. They loved the Matrix but they did it. Get how Revolutionary Mary the movie was because all of this has been duplicated so many times and I explained to them. That was the first movie three where that bullet time thing happened. It's a cliche now but this is what established anyway Jurassic Park has the same. Should I go to number one and number three next three there anyway as long as the electric organ of an electric eel is entirely located under its Chin which have places on animals it wishes to deliver a maximal shock Steve I get it. It's a mouth organ have under their Chin. That's that's how they play the Damn thing they carry Carrie. You think this one is a fiction. The boys think this one is science and this one is say fiction. Oh Aw may not be the reason you think though not this is the fiction because the electric you'll has has three electric organs and comprising eighty percent of its body. That's most of it. It's mostly electric producing Oregon so that's all they do however don't touch one at its internal organs are all like small and isolated away like the most of its spotty eighty percent. It's three electric organs seeing electric. Yo has a heart attack. Can it electrically shock it's heart back into Pumpkin head added that but they can do it to each other. Maybe but there's a kernel of truth in here because the under the Chin is where it delivers its maximal shock it will now it can shock animals through the water right doesn't have to touch them at all what they do. is they use their electrical production for were communication for navigating and for hunting and it'll deliver this like double little shock. It's thinks that there may be pray nearby. It will give it to like a double quick. Shocking wouldn't know what that's for it. It causes the fish to twitch switch it actually contracts its muscles with an external electrical shock and then it could detect the twitching in the water and and then it eats it then it will it gives it a maximum it gives it a big shock to stunning and then it eats it so it does like the two quick shot. That's just to see if there's anything there by causing them the the the prey fish to twitch and then it will give a stunning shock but it also uses the shock to scare away predators editors which are often animals that are trying to hunt it in the shallow pools might be stuck in like an alligator for example so what it does into into those types of animals and actually Klein jumps out of the water and attached it's chin-tu it underneath its head Chin and the farther it gets out of the water the greater the voltage difference and more of a shock that it delivers livers and Jeeze yes we could deliver up eight hundred sixty Volk shock. I didn't realize they were that dangerous. Only only about one camp those amps but it's big shock so that could definitely f. up even a big animal. I got a alligator to a human and human deaths from electric. EELS are rare. The shock is not enough to like directly. Kill a person unless you got like a pacemaker maker or a weak heart or something it could hurt though right it would absolutely hurt like hell however can't it has stoned people enough that they drown. That's yeah what just happened to me like you can't move your legs suddenly shot in a drought in shallow water yeah all right. This means that electric eels are not true eels but knife fish a group closely related to catfish that contains two hundred twenty species at all have electricity Chrissy producing Oregon's is science. It's not a true ill. The entire group of night. Fish of fish can have these electricity producing Oregon's they use it primarily early for communication and maybe navigation is primarily for communication not as hunting though so which makes sense this is very common we see this evolutionary like like you see a creature that has some amazing ability and you think well how to Daddy Volvo at a nothing but they're usually related to animals that have have a have an incipient version of that thing right so in this case they related to a whole group of animals that all have electricity producing organs Oregon's these electro sites the electricity produced the electric deciding what your charge that the organs could then store and release suddenly but in this sort just a a specialized version of this Oregon. It's like if you only imagine if hummingbirds were the only birds that survived I think how the the health animal evolve you know the the ability to fly that way but if you didn't know that they were related to you know hundreds of species of love birds that flew in a in a less you know extremely adapted fashion or I just think like those beetles that shoot stuff at you. You know there's other Beatles that shoot stuff in less extreme ways you know for other reasons. There's always some derivative transitional feature so it's the same for this and so that it's debatable whether or not knife fish are in the same group as catfish or just related groups in other words. The exact ordering evolutionary of the groups is a little bit in in in debate but there are definitely closely related and while I was doing research for this this piece I discovered there are electric catfish. Wow Yeah there are a catfish that basically like electric else now. What prompted this theme? This week was a news in which I actually didn't ultimately us so we used to think there was one species of electric bill and recently we discovered is that this one species actually three species and that was due to a combination of genetic analysis but also morphological analysis they all look the same that you can't tell them really from just looking at them but they we do have different ranges of their power and part of this was based on the fact that they discovered the most powerful population of Electric Electric eels. This is the the ones that could release a measure their of their electric shock at eight hundred sixty volts which is now the most powerful electric the animal on the planet is that one species of electrical definitely cool. I mean really opera adaptation. Thanks I said with with immense commence confidence that the knife fish was not correct on trust your confidence again j. I do have to say which is something. That's always funny funding for me. Listening to the show live and editing the show is that there does appear to be an inverse relationship between your confidence and your correctness after the number that it's funny that you're off ever. Somebody actually did a Mash Jay saying I'm absolutely sure that this is the answer is wrong completely wrong and can you find this humorous. I take it I I learned from science or fiction that just a lot of information gets into our slips into our minds yeah. You don't remember where it came from. You feel like you know something or get a tickle like Oh. Sometimes you feel like very strongly about it but I I gotta be honest with you. There is a difference like for example. If we take time to be talking about say Thanksgiving yeah. I know that when we were talking about that science fiction where he was confidently winning the Thanksgiving science fiction. There's a different feeling in my head versus like me tonight. Kelly I just thinking I thought that I knew would a knife. Fish was because I've read about knife fish before and that's gedeon a ghost like I think it's a black ghost knife-edge but there's two hundred and twenty species care and some of them have fish another yeah but like that helped me like you guys they're gorgeous and the only reason I know this is because I saw it once in a pet store and fell in love with it and it's always always stuck in my head there it is that's like your slumdog millionaire. That's where you had that piece of information from yeah and even even the black ghost knife fish. It's face actually looks a little cat fishy now that I'm working of close but it's weird you'll even faces. Look a little catfish. Yeah we are yeah so these are different than the deals that are in lock ness. Yes those are real those are real eels yeah okay absolutely nothing to do with each other except they both both appeared in this episode of the ESPN and they're both called her heels. All Right Evan gives a quote when any prevailing prejudices this is attacked the wise will consider and leave the narrow minded to rail with thoughtless vehemence at innovation and that was written in by a woman named Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley Mary Shelley well a vindication of the rights of women. This is actually actually the mother Oh Clo- Mary Shelley Frankenstein fame so her mother who who who wrote this and who who wrote the book treat US yeah the treatise of indication of the rights of women considered one of the earliest works of feminist philosophy and I'm basically argues that women should have an education commensurate with their position in society and that it's an it's essential for the nation in the nation's best best interest frankly for for to be educated appropriately. I mean seventeen ninety two wow out of her time boy. I tell you well. She was vindicated. I absolutely took a couple of hundred years added right couple century later but it finally caught up but she was one of the first ones in without her. We wouldn't have Frankenstein that is true yeah. It's pronounced Frankenstein uh-huh Tigor then. Isn't it sure all right guys well. Thank you all for joining me this week. Thanks you got him in and welcome back Cara. Thank you STU and until next week this is your skeptics guide to the universe sceptic's Universe is produced by S G productions dedicated to promoting science and critical thinking for more information visit us at Pyschopathic skied dot or send your questions to Info at the skeptics Guy Dot Org and if he would like to support the show and all the work that we do go to the Patriots Dot com slash skeptic skied and

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