3 Episode results for "Mary Urban"
S3  The Anatomy of an Urban Legend
"And reaction episodes were coming up on our fiftieth episode of this podcast and on this podcast it's been quite a journey restarted about really quickly here for all those listening this is an ad I just want to really thank you sincerely I really mean it if you count bonus episodes program facebook Ad Andrew Jenks or good jinx pod dot com for more information on the sources for this podcast language and potentially disturbing content discretion is advised a story is the most convincing way to understand a universe and for university the house she moves into is a bit old so she isn't that concerned when she hears strange noises after telling some family members for system they can't believe she's conscious what really happened a few welcome to season three of what really happened executive produced by seven bucks productions dwayne Johnson Danny goes to bed Sarah Wakes up in the middle of the night she hears noises downstairs she calls the police who arrive on the scene named Mike Mike has been on tinder but isn't having much luck same with Sarah but they match and they start talking to each other they suggest she calls police just to make sure everything is fine who knows maybe someone is roaming around near the house late at night so Michelle calls the police they do a quick scan everything seems fine finally they check the basement they don't want to tell her what they find but Sarah insists else it blew me away it's about two people although I can't confirm their respective names let's say one is named Sarah the others Sara informs them she had been feeling ill law enforcement proceeds to do a drug test and finds that she has a slew of drugs running through it's her house after all the police then tell her her basement was covered in plastic there was a hammer and assault on the ground it goes back and forth for a while six months actually finally they go on a date Mike picks up Sarah for dinner you but another twist at home Sarah falls ill again Mike says they'll make it work another time and he takes off Sarah Slater I heard an eerily similar story let's say this woman's name is Michelle Michelle's in her early twenties and just moved to Boston thir enjoying their meal but she begins to feel sick she tries to push through but can't Mike says no problem they can reschedule and Mike says this she emphasizes to law enforcement it's almost certainly nothing and the person on dispatch says since it's not a rush that the cops will be there in about forty minutes cast and I really could never imagined it so what I am really just trying to say is thank you and now here is today's episode and then suddenly only three minutes later police cars storm the front of the home and searched the house and they find a man take her home but on the way home Sarah starts to feel better hey do you wanna come inside for some tea she asks Mike would love to missile truth a few months ago a friend told me an unbelievable story the next day he sent a link to a newspaper article with more detail sure devices or to dismember body and then comes perhaps the most shocking park at least for Michelle the man in the basement the man has a tool set packed with different tools tools that as vice reported would be used as quote toward Garcia and Brian Goertz in association with cadence thirteen it's written and hosted by me Andrew Jenks you can follow me on twitter or Instagram at Andrew Jackson yes you can also become a contributor to the show by going to Jenks pod dot com slash contributors this story contains strong it's they tell Michelle it's a busy night as is customary they stay on the line with Michelle in the event something happens while she waits is someone she met on tinder and went on a date with during the day she mentioned she'd lived alone clearly this under wanted to take advantage as it turns out the nine one one dispatcher thought she had heard someone on the other line of the call so while she pretended to agree with Michelle that it was nothing and said it would take forty minutes she told police to get there they caught the man red handed it was posted on April twenty four and had been viewed nearly two million times but as I searched around to get more details about this story small fat I thought these would make for interesting episodes so I looked them up on the Google machine the first story I told came from a video on twitter ax seemed to change in some telling of the story Michelle with that house in Boston was living somewhere in the middle of nowhere apparently in the woods somewhere nobody has been able to prove anything the names of the people involved the person who I told or reported the story law enforcement don't have records of any of the this nothing it has become clear both of these first two stories are urban legends there are of course any of examples you can find in which there were tender dates gone wrong tinder dates and FAC in which someone was murdered but not here and all this got me thinking which certainly sounds more scary when reporters tried reaching out to the woman who posted the story Care Patton they didn't get a response in fact Serban Legend Good question so an urban legend is typically a story that gets passed around through Word Nations Science Magazine The New York Times Magazine The New Yorker Atlantic monthly you get the gist and usually has some sort of salacious kind Howard urban legends forms however they changed what makes an urban legend spread across the world will for starters what even is is the urban in urban legend I think urban legends are called urban legends as opposed to just legends because holds together all the different versions long lineage although elements of an urban legend may have truth in them they aren't as a story attempt that makes it very memorable kind of sticky in your memory and it often has some sort of warning embedded in it now the person in person that's Matthew Hudson author of the seven laws of magical thinking and a writer for a lot of reputable public something like that so next I wanted to know what is the anatomy of an urban legend. Well you know real now before we get to the juicy stuff I got bogged down on one more part of this phrase that I find interesting what is dot com slash W. R. H. So next I wanted to know as most of us have found out the hard way getting into debt is easy getting out is hard once made this movie that of his smarter interest rate they make it fast simple and easy to check your rate in just a few minutes once the loan is approved and accepted most maybe God's or ancient war heroes or magical forests or something like that whereas urban legends are and so they can be things like tales of of some weird murder or it could be a sort of advice about some what is the anatomy of an urban legend there are a few factors that psychologists have found that make urban legends particularly question themselves every time they thought they saw a lion or second guess every story from a tribe member so we've evolved to pay Emma CTO or myth they can sort of evolve as they get passed on but there's usually some sort of central theme or idea that a little bit more number two a warning researchers have also found that urban legends that have to do with a hazard aware of even if not totally true can make you feel reliable a trusted source and in some cases even if it's untrue it won't stop people not or cerebral one survival Hudson wrote in one article our ancestors evolved in an environment too dangerous is a lot of them are situated in the modern everyday world like when you think of legends you think of in what really happened to find out how low your upstart rate is checking your rate only takes a few minutes won't affect your credit that's up star underestimating benefits number three and I love this one dinner table conversation telling people about something horrific something that they should be trick or something because it makes more sense to be aware to threats in our environment because if you forget the built modern industrialized world things it might encounter energy early life in in a city or suburbs what a cool job but that doesn't necessarily stop it from being successful in terms of being transmitted around it just changes the the reason paypal's have attacked a certain number of people that's GonNa stick in your head more than pit bulls are actually really nice or it can do a particular stubbersfield an assistant professor in psychology at Heroin University Edinburgh and an urban legend expert and researcher it happens even if we on a conscious explicit level don't believe it so for instance if you hear a couple of times that the Atlantic Ocean is the biggest ocean in the world you're reading of the the truth of that statement increases people get their funds the very next business day over three hundred thousand people have used up start to pay off credit cards or meet their financial goals see why upstart is ranked upstart goes beyond the traditional credit score when assessing your credit worthiness they actually reward you based on your education and job history in the foreign telling this story is obviously untrue story itself is still being spread but the framing can be quite different and this right into number four repetition said Matthew Hudson if you hear something a lot you're more likely to believe it another way of saying this is that bad is stronger than good serve downsides of underestimating hazards are a lot worse than the upsides number one in their category with over three hundred businesses on trust pilot and hurry to upstart dot com slash w. r. eight like if you eat too many pop rocks your stomach explodes that kind of thing like these are things that are situated in active us a product runway then something terrible happens there like a mental virus can mutate suggest like any good story or or more attention to information that is closely related to survival and reproduction makes sense right you put someone's life on the line we're GonNa care told you it's not as if it's about people on some unknown dating app the story begins with an APP most of us have heard about have used or maybe friends of us oh I people are spreading it around so I think sometimes people aren't necessarily spreading these stories because they believe to be true sometimes it is spreading them mm-hmm the revolutionary lending platform that knows you're more than just your credit score and offers smarter interest rates to help you pay off high interest credit card debt even if someone asks you okay what's the biggest ocean though in the world and you correctly say out the Pacific Ocean not the Atlantic Ocean so urban legends APP number six how a story is told so Elizabeth Loftus is a psychologist at the University of California have like one or two or three elements of it that are kind of weird or counterintuitive as opposed to having none which just makes it Irvine those done a lot of important work on false memories she's found that the way events are described can encourage people to ETA pitbull as dangerous and then you get attacked by pitbull that's a lot worse than forgetting that it can that they're friendly and do some some trick belief system so in one study they researchers looked at a bunch of versions of this bloody Mary Urban Legend where you say hit the mere suggestion of speed had caused them to populate the recollections with destruction number seven we play on the subconscious or intuitive processes so that even if you can consciously check them and say okay that's not actually true or not than later she asked them either did you see broken glass when the first car hit the other car or did you see broken glass when the first card cost me a pretty penny knowing like did know in bought it no one's ever seen it except for me especially if your credit score isn't great thankfully now there's upstart dot COM are more believable than ones that are not the ones that have to do with benefits so for instance if you hear that call seen broken glass even though there is actually no broken glass in the video in fact in this study a week after participants saw the film thirty two percent of those who had read smashed recalled seeing broken glass again there was none versus fourteen percent for those who'd read the car was just smashed into the other car and when people heard her the event described as one car smashing into the other one as opposed to just hitting it there were more likely to like bloody Mary three times to a mere and then she comes out and scratches your face off and they counted the number of elements in it that were counterintuitive or not so she popped out of the toilet that's just a lot going on there and that's not gonna no that's not gonna stay in those those versions were not very common or just think about that tender story I think the good stories in the trees getting away if a good story and sometimes I think people are spreading them as kind of example of your can you believe creek memory of the sort of visual experience of the event we also have kind of a social bias toward believing other people when they tell us things number eight and last and perhaps the most important element is a social component just a boring story that you're not gonna remember later or having a lot of things which just makes it really confusing and and you know unbelievable and you can't fit it into your existence believed to be polite because you don't WanNa challenge everything that anyone tells you partly because most things that people tell you are true on so just of truth there's another factor that psychologists call minimal camera intuitive nece so it's good for a number legend would've whereas loaded them on and had a bunch of things she was also headless and there's also blood pouring out of the saying and shells in thinking that you're imagining the act of brushing your teeth and so that that's a very visual that's more visual than not brushing her teeth so that kinda sticks in your head so dateable or there's some logical problems with that we're still influenced by by our subconscious number five potential there's also a mental fluency affect the more you'll hear something or the more you imagine something the easier it is to imagine it the legendary series is back don't miss the return of true Hollywood story the series that dives deep into the moments that are abilities straight from the people who were on the front lines of the story each self contained documentary will explore a compelling topic headline Hop Industry Reject Women can a horror movie set be cursed or are these unexplained events and deaths purely coincidence can create oh from talking about it because well it can be fun dinner table conversation so people might be fact checking in saying it's not true this is Dr Joseph giving fame turn into addiction destroying those who seek it most I bet it does watch the most anticipated series return Sunday at ten only on a person is nexium sex called the praise on the Hollywood elite what is the secret behind the Empire that is Kim Kardashian good does the hip imagine something didn't happen over time sort of little mental tag of X. didn't happen falls off and you just have this ear to believe things to question things even just thinking about Alabama it didn't happen insane Oh maybe I didn't brush my teeth. This morning are shaping popular culture whether they become the ground zero for a revolution or caused a major shift in culture true Hollywood story will explore all of the number eight and last and perhaps the most important element is a social component in that sense it's grounded in reality in something we all know does exist it has a perfectly believable beginning to people meeting on self esteem sleeping whatever anything you shares obviously confidential and financial aid is available for those who qualify best of all compressive disorder now different things can help me and one thing is definitely connecting with other people someone anyone to speak with it includes on E. I'm crying
Podcast 110: EMBATTLED FREEDOM: JOURNEYS THROUGH THE CIVIL WARS SLAVE REFUGEE CAMPS. Interview with Dr. Amy Taylor.
"Welcome to the tales of American history. The Witnessing History Education Foundation podcast educating Americans against to understand the history of their country and of other countries so that they will appreciate the value of America's unique free institutions. Join US US at witnessing history dot. Org the website of the witnessing history education foundation subscribe to our lively and informative newsletter at her view for free. The foundations documentary films on the website. And on the foundation's new Youtube Platform Review. The foundations free reteach education materials that conform to grade level education standards at PBS LEARNING DOT. Org follow witnessing history on facebook and twitter and consider making a tax deductible gift any amount to support the work of our foundation. Now take a good journey back through time with Kent Mess or some Brown and his best and let their storytelling transport you to the most compelling moments in American history today Kent Guest is Dr Amy Merle Taylor professor of history at the University of Kentucky where she's been honored with a great teacher award from the UK Hey Alumni Association. Dr Taylor's research interests are in the area of the civil war and reconstruction in the south her recent book and Battled Freedom Freedom Journeys through the civil war slave refugee camps was published in two thousand eighteen by UNC press and has won many national awards including including the Frederick Douglass Prize from Yale University. The Avery Craven Prize for Civil War History and the Merle courtesy prize for US Social History from the Organization of American historians. Dr Taylor will discuss with Kent. The fascinating stories of the legal ambiguities surrounding being slaves during the civil war especially in union occupied Central Kentucky. Welcome Dr Taylor. Hello Amy Welcome. Thank you is wonderful. Having you great to be here great having you before we get into all the the the stuff we want to talk about you were. You're a native of Rockville Maryland. That's cracked and went to Duke University. uh-huh got a your bachelor's in history and then I understand you work for congressman and I did. Yeah I saw what possessed you know. So I I grew up in Maryland. I grew up in a suburb Washington. DC and when you grow up right by the nation's capital you get kinda fired up about politics. And so I thought I had a political future and so so I did some internships. I went and worked in Washington and then it didn't take long to realize it wasn't for me. I got a little disillusioned. I had a great boss but I and it just was not not for me. I wanted to think for myself instead of working for a member of Congress and always thinking for them to sing that before this. Yes you really wanted to think for myself rather than from my boss. I mean that's what it was when you work for these members of Congress. Yes you're always having to to what he want to do what should he do you know. And and I had studied obviously studied history and I found myself Just dying to get back into the archives. Do some work for myself. I'll tell you what I know the feeling for forty six years I practice this law and I got a degree in history from my undergraduate school in all those professors all told me they wanted me to go to graduate school and all this stuff and I wanted to be a lawyer you know and I enjoyed practicing law as much as anyone can enjoy practicing law but I can i. Can I have great empathy here. Because all through my law practice I dabble in history and write a book sure and then ultimately got into making films but it was all during that career and it was like this thing is constantly drawing me yet air uh-huh and I know that feeling yes. History work is great fun and it's fun and it's still mysterious and there's so much to learn the no right that's what pulled me back and come across something that no one's touched before and it's it's a dream it is magical been really. Well you've You've written some wonderful wonderful stuff and this embattled freedom is the creme dela cram around. I mean that's very kind of you. And you've gotten terrific reviews and of course the awards you've gotten are all so deserving and not no one's ever approach that subject and here's a case where you found this information and what ten years took you it does find this What I'd like to do today is Talk a little bit about the situation. Shen of slaves on the eve of the Civil War I think the Eighteen sixty cents says we had like four million in your class and the slave owning states which is a staggering number which of course even when one considers considers. Well you know. Why don't they freed them how you know what I mean? It's just how do you do that. And that's the question they asked asked. It is absolutely and and no one could come up with an answer for it and in so many ways you know reading reading that you have a sensitive you do have a heavy heart so to speak for the people who are trapped tin that right both white and black because there's just no answer to it but in terms of of the war and there's no question about it being the underpinning of what became the bloodiest conflict this nation's ever fought you reference one episode. That is a great place to start on this. And that's when you got three free. Slaves Frank Bakers at one of Upper James Townsend who have been sent into confederate service as I've written and we both published a Chapel Hill and in my retreat eight book. I came across a lot of instances where slaves were Taken off farms in the south by the quartermasters and the slave owner was but the slave worked. And these appear to be those kind of these. Three And they were working on gun emplacements and so forth for the one hundred Fifteenth Virginia. Melissa Virginia had a lot of militia units on the eve of the war and they go across to Fort Monroe they escape and go across the Fort Monroe. And there's General Benjamin Butler as the loop New Orleans would call later on beast uh-huh from Massachusetts colorful. He's an incredibly colorful figure. Heavy rotund a UH nasty looking but a democrat. Ha You know. And so not anti-slavery no no no which of course everyone to the candidates running in the eighteen sixty election on the democrat. Whatever branch they were were were were were not for their freedom freedom and he was a Democrat and of course Lincoln brings him into the service for obvious political reasons? But here they show up and and Ask for sanctuary and Butler first of all all just kinda tells him to get out get back and then a flag. A truce comes across from an officer by major her Kabul I think his name was Kerry Kerry which is a big name and project C. A. R. Y. and He's he then poses to Butler under what authority you know are you are you. What are your intentions and Butler? Who says to keep him? He sees they want now. He's GonNa keep them which is perfect. This is exactly like Butler would have been and then the the question got to. Well you know doesn't your laws require you to get the send them back and Butler says why does that bother you. Oh you've seceded from the union right. Federal law doesn't apply to you anymore. So so what is ultimately ultimately Butler keeps them and I mean I mean by the end of the war. Fort Monroe is like ten thousand slaves Libyan and around and Robert Tape right and I think it's even more kind of coming and going so totals even greater thank but yeah people and the the the thing that I want to explore floor with you is it. What what what is the status of these slaves that have come across to Butler? In Lincoln's I inaugural this is march eighteen. Sixty one five states have already seceded from the Union South Carolina Mississippi Florida Georgia and Texas. And he says I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. He also has been adamant that the states have no right to secede and he would not recognize. Recognize their secession. So in answer to the confederates questions about about these runaways. The state isn't seceded right. So federal law should apply right right right. What do you think about all that so this is a very messy legal situation? I understand I'm talking to an attorney about the law which increase slightly nervous but not anybody's game. So what is their your status in. What's going on? Well the short answer is it's just not clear cut and it depends on who you ask so Butler takes in. It's it's kind of surprising but he takes A different view. Obviously then in what Lincoln was basically saying there. I think his his words words were something like Virginia claims to be a foreign nation and I will take her at her word for word so he is accepting secession. Mr So a little bit different from Lincoln there. Yeah and so. That's what enables him to abandon federal law and the federal law of course worse is not just a provision in the constitution but the eighteen fifty fugitive slave law that has empowered the federal government and federal government agents to to send runaway slaves back to their owners so butlers basically saying no longer applies we can help runaway slaves now But not everybody interpreted things that way for the reasons one of the reasons you say they're And others it just still didn't understand what sort of constitutional authority the federal government could claim You know to harbor runaway slave. This is violating people's property rights. Right and then the other the other thing is as military officer Butler. He has an enemy over there. From which these slaves came and that the enemy regards those slaves as property. Right right. That's the thing butler. He's a union man be anti-slavery but he's he's as union. Yes he is. He's going to go after the enemy not put some stars on their shoulders. I mean that made him so special. I think what's interesting. Is that on. That point. You Know Butler had been in Maryland just week or two before he gets to Fort Monroe and there he was sending slaves back to their owners because those owners he deemed loyal more union. Yeah so it's it's all about union confederate loyalty. That's what makes in in Butler's mind that's why this is clear-cut will frankly his response there is very clear-cut and it's also very understandable if you're not in in rebellion alien then sure they're yours. Yeah if you are in rebellion then particularly for the male slaves. You're using them. I'm in an effort to combat me right and so I regard those as property. Yeah and subject pick to be seized and or if they come into my lines being held it denies you right to the opportunity to build more org battlements generally to to hurt me yes so On those not only the law level but then just the military military level rate of. How do you wage war Different Answer Butler. Starting in a way we can see. In retrospect he started building the case that interfering with slavery is military necessity that serve the interests of the military. And of course we'll see that argument really develop and really get expressed in the emancipation proclamation. Yeah eventually will you know as you know as you right after that eight more. Slaves came in to keep coming and then forty seven and now they're not only men but their women and children children right and the question now goes right now. What is their status right? That that's really interesting. Because when Butler I issues his order and is explaining to Washington what what he's doing you know it's a lot about military necessity right about depriving the confederacy of this labor and adding to the unions. That argument is more easily made for men and so the understanding on the Union side was that this was just going into effect then but then the women and children keep coming and I keep coming and they keep coming and Butler himself starts to get kind of torn up about this and you could see and some of his writing that he really seems to agonize. He doesn't want to send these women and children back and separate these families so he sort realizes he's now into a situation that's a little more complicated than he originally bargained for And they're they're basically what he does. He allows them to stay even though it kind of undermines or contradicts his original reasoning by his original reasoning. They shouldn't be there but he allows them to stay. And then in the midst of all this General Urban McDowell commands the department northeastern Virginia issues. An order to all his commanders that runaway slaves who who come into union lines should be turned away. Yes now you know Irvin McDowell Has Kentucky routes I the Son of Samuel McDowell from Danville and his wife Mary urban who also was a Kentucky. I didn't know that but as soon as you said it. Those names are Kentucky aims absolutely. Wow on Samuel McDowell who is the son of the Great Samuel McDowell who was the chairman of Kentucky's First Constitutional Convention and they all came from rock bridge each county. Virginia and Ephraim McDowell is Samuel's broader. Wow Okay surgeon famous Sir sir her. So here's an and these were people who were slave owners They weren't great slave owners. But they did have sizable farms in in Boyle County and then Samuel and Mary Irvine moved to what's now Columbus Ohio and that's where urban was born General Irvin Franco so he comes from that background and here he now issues. This order about runaway slaves must be turned away. Okay which of course would be repeated often on through the war by commanders so Finally the I as I understand from your your your mind to the secretary of war. Simon Cameron interfered and agreed that Butler could keep his runaway Salaam or right but Butler Butler was pretty upset about McDowell And he starts getting upset at other times when he senses that other others in the union or not following his precedent and and when his superiors are allowing knowing them to not follow his precedent. And there I think we see Butler is not just a military man but as a political man and you sense from his writings that that he he wants to be a leader on this very political question of slavery and he starting to stakeout some some ground. He's getting absolutely praised by abolitionists. I mean at the Library of Congress. You look at his correspondence there. I mean the letters that come in from all over the north they are just praising him like he is just a great human being and of course they populate Massachusetts yes and There was a letter her later in the war from his wife. His correspondence between her and his wife are very interesting and she at one point tells him you know make sure you stay day on the right side of the emancipation question. If you have any ambitions. Yeah I didn't end up in my book. But so he's making some calculations about his future political career. I think and emancipation is now part of it so I think that's part of what's going on when he gets upset about other people not following him. Yeah yeah well. Just keeping moving forward on that I mean McDowell Douse automatically defeated in the field by DGT beauregard. Joseph e Johnston at first Manassas. Yeah and and it's a bitter defeat route and with that That affects the position the fortresses Chris is the positions along the Virginia coast yes to the extent now wear these three are in danger of being captured captured by confederate forces. Right right yes. Or the union starts pulling some of their men out of you know the the whole Peninsula area where they had they had been expanding into Newport news and so forth and now they're pulling them out and sending them to Washington and that causes a great deal live chaos because they're hundreds of people who have fled to union lines. Now they have less protection. That's right that's right where people who don't recall all the Fort Monroe is at the foot of the great peninsula. That is between the organ the James River empties into the the Hampton roads and And so yeah and when when all those this coastal defenses are contracted because of that defeat. Now they're subject to being enslaved again. Yes Sir yes there are very vulnerable and could be armed. Yeah Yeah because they escape and some are but then the rest they they identify the one secure place place is Fort Monroe inside the fort itself inside its walls and so huge. We see this huge flood of people leaving Newport News and Hampton going into the fort and apparently it was such a scene that artists from Harper's weekly and Frank Leslie's illustrated news were there and they they they drew They sketched what they saw. And we see we have those images today that give us a sense of just this mass sort of exodus into the fort to find protection well and you know a first Manassas was fought on. The twenty-first Bull First Bull Run on the twenty first of July sixty one and in August congress passes the first confiscation sixty ECZEMA and it allows the confiscation of any property used to support the confederate cause. Right as contraband around. War and Senator Lyman Trumbull. Who a confidante of Abraham Lincoln's from Illinois Great Supporter of Lincoln in Illinois Frankly secured for him his the fried the nomination for the United States Senate and then helped secure secure for him the nomination to the president on the Republican Party ticket in eighteen sixty? He says that this also enslaved enslaved people were would be considered contraband of war for purposes of the confiscation act. So now you have this suddenly on the scene Yes. Butler's order has influenced federal policy on a much bigger scale scale. Yeah and Dan Butler himself expresses a little frustration because he by this time is allowing women and children but the way the confiscation act is worded. It's more his strict original language. And it's not going to so but still it is generally understood as Butler's order order now the law of the Union across the board. You know it's interesting. I I've never heard A discussion that had a a favorable side to bend Butler every now in the midst of like Oh that skunk but we need a new biography. Really what I thought about that in looking at your work so you know maybe Ben Butler needs to be reappraised here I think so oh I think so and I think he's It's not simply a matter of only was better than we thought I think he was just more complicated and constantly changing changing and I think he probably actually reflects the way. A lot of people were thinking on the Union side So so it won't be me working. You GotTa know please afford moving a little little bit farther forward we have a Another act in March of eighteen. Sixty two Where officers were prohibited from then employing any other forces? For the purpose of returning fusions. Right there's an actor Congress. Yeah a new article of war. I mean it's a really we don't have a nice name for it but actually ordered. It's got no fancy dancing name in our history and it's kind of been sort of buried and I've only seen a few historians here and there mention it I've ever read. Who mentioned Oh really really? Yeah Okay Yeah. I hadn't heard much and but in going through a military records and the writings of some of these commanders in local. Oh places that's what they were listening to and they felt very constrained by now there are always those who didn't listen and you know any sort policy is going to be thwarted by some people but that one exerted quite a bit of influence and lead more and more army officials cels to stop turning runaways. Back Yeah Yeah. Because they the punishment anybody caught was court martial and dismissal. Yeah on the service so I mean that's a pretty harsh punishment really is. Yeah that's the end so you can see why it had some force over people and then you know besides Ben Butler color which. WHO's in Virginia? At the time. You've got a man. Lincoln named as Commander of the Department the West that included all the territory between Mississippi in the river and the rocky mountains. I probably farther than that. Ah But he appointed him. Commander of that. And Fremont establishes his headquarters in Saint Louis Saint Louis Missouri stories mess like lit may be worse at that moment than Kentucky. That's that's interesting. Maybe so they rival each other rival each other. Well you know. I remember reading an when Morgan. John Hunt Morgan here. From Lexington Set takes all of his Lexington intern rifles down to London Ville and they actually go across the Green River to woods Ville where they're all sworn into service who shows up up but Morgan's brother-in-law Basil do count. Who had been practicing law in Saint Louis and I was caught hot Well it was never caught but was accused of burning bridges. I mean it was absolutely a civil war within the state that was erupting getting and So Lincoln thinks that John C. Freemont can't take care of that WHO by the way is one out of the people he defeated for the Republican nomination in eighteen. Sixty building a team of rivals. Well he declares martial law as early as August eighteen sixty one so this is this the same time as as Butler and the three fugitives And in that with Eddie Declares Martial Law and he says in his orders that property of all persons real and personal all who take up arms against the United States is declared confiscated in their stores in their slaves freed. Yeah so he went further than Butler. Yeah yeah tempted to. Yeah he of course this. Here's Lincoln Would you think Lincoln was doing it all this time with with with this guy particularly Fremont well he stops Fremont from doing this so whereas Lincoln sort of quietly approves of what Butler is done. He doesn't try to stop Butler. In Virginia he stops Fremont from doing something similar although oh even more extreme by freeing them Missouri and I mean they're you know he's Lincoln's very attuned to local politics The differences of one place to the other and Missouri's a loyal state so he can't have he can't go in there and be interfering are fearing with slavery in this loyal Union State so So Fremont Act can't stand in his view and you know it's interesting Fremont issues. This and who is Lincoln get a letter from about it. But from Joshua Speed Oh from Louisville who I mean his. He roomed with Joshua Speed Springfield when he first started practicing pissing law speed was at merchant and he later left Springfield came back to Louisville. Lincoln would visit him at Farmington here here and in Louisville Wow e particularly after. He broke off his engagement with Mary he needed. Did some help support Akzo. Joshua speed was just bosom pal Lincoln and he scribbled. Ah Portion of the letter goes I have seen Fremont proclamation. This is speed writing Lincoln. It will hurt us in Kentucky talking now. That's a big thing for to say Lincoln because Lincoln would boast. I'm Kentucky into and he says if a military commander can turn turn them loose by the thousands by mere proclamation. It will be a most difficult matter to get our people to submit to board. Yeah these fearing insurrection. Yeah trump because when word gets out of Missouri of what is going on there yeah think about what could happen in Kentucky so you March eighteen sixty two. Where do we stand where does where does the slaves to handle the the runaways? The scare and they're still in a very sort of murky nebulous position it's They are not free they might be contraband in some places and in union lines but they're not free. They've gotten no reassurance that freedom might come And then it depends very much on where they are whether they can even get into that murky contraband position you know. Oh but don't be in a place like Kentucky her Missouri. You know you gotTa leave those states if you want to have any chance of getting in Union. It's a very very very difficult position. And the enslaved people themselves or freedom seat gang whatever you WANNA call them at this point They hey you know have to really learn the landscape of the politics and the military situation and and pretty amazed at how some seemed to really learn that and get information you know even though some are trying to keep that information from them what is interesting and by the way again. I mean I've gotten into this stuff because of your work I mean it's really wonderful stuff. Thank you and come. September eighteen sixty two after the battle of Antietam Lincoln issues the preliminary emancipation proclamation. Now tell the listeners which really what what. What does the emancipation do? Yeah so the proclamation is going to declare free Enslaved people who are in regions. That are in rebellion against the Union. And what that does is it really kind of continues. What the Union policy has already been doing which is distinguish one place from another a rebellious place versus a loyal place But but the the real significance here is that it makes clear that even those that those who get inside union lines he can now be assured that the union is on the side of freedom. That that's what's going to result with union victory in this war So it does bring a little bit of clarity but it still maintains this distinction this geographic distinction between rebellious and loyal places. And and of course Kentucky was not technically in rebellion right and so the slaves living in Kentucky were not included in that right Missouri was technically there were in rebellion with themselves are still so was Kentucky and in Maryland Delaware area and Tennessee Tennessee In and around New Orleans some of the parishes there and then some of the counties including Hampton in Fort Monroe Virginia. Just kind of ironic. Yeah yeah that's the one. A lot of folks don't realize how detailed that emancipation proclamation was won't respect to where it applies and where it does not. Yeah Yeah if you read and I can't remember which paragraph it is but it lists you know it includes all these regions except or maybe somehow distinguishes by county and it lists names names of all these Virginia counties and it lists names of all these parishes in Louisiana and What I love is a portrait? It that Francis Carpenter did of Lincoln going over the emancipation proclamation with his cabinet. Look over to the side. There's this map that's that's just kind of lying there in the room and it's actually a map of the slave population density. Eighteenth six stay. It was a map that was really existed that showed like where were all the slaves and where were they most heavily concentrated. And it's just so interesting. Lincoln was looking at that but he was also clearly looking at The military progress of the war in Virginia India he was. I don't know if you want to hear this whole story reading my book. But you know those counties around Fort Monroe. I mean here they are. They're they're kind of where all this started with those three original fugitive slaves and then what happens is some of the union men in the region because there were union slaveholders elders in that region They get together and they hold a congressional election really quick you know in December eighteen sixty five or maybe they had it in November somewhere in November November December and A man named Joseph Cigar. who was a slave owner? He got himself quickly elected and that was one of the indicators to Lincoln that this was now a loyal region again that they had a member of Congress and the US Congress and so very quickly done under under some you know. I don't know if they were the best electoral circumstances. I don't know what kind of good election it was but but so then Lincoln quickly quickly exempted those congressional district the proclamation you know it always seemed to me that the emancipation was really a the groundwork for it was really laid by the second confiscation act. Yeah we sort of skipped over that alive sixty two which Kim I mean. The Union army could take an all property of people in rebellion in any person committing adding treason which they regard that because they say you cannot succeed so this is treason. They could be fined imprisoned or executed and his slaves a freed so they've they've got instructions to the army now to administer that right right right I mean that's where really the first time it becomes clear that freedom is going to result from a union victory but in word got doubt about the second confiscation act But maybe not quite in the way that the patient proclamation did I mean the patient proclamation had had a force and a visibility and a political force I guess to it that made people is okay now. The unions committed fifty nine now. The the Union is a whole union. Yeah the executive branch and now the legislative. We're going to exempt the union part south put Lincoln. Lincoln says but wait a minute. It's not everybody is apple except those. I've said you can't touch right right. Yeah Yeah I mean it's right. It's very detailed very intricate. The proclamation is and all of this union policy has its very intricate and complicated. It's time to sort it out in my mind. I have to say today one of these. Donate your money to to the law firm and they'll file all these lawsuits. Today there would be lawsuit filed against emancipation product-based. Hey it violates the actor Congress right and it would probably go to. You'd probably get an injunction action against. Yeah so here's why. Lincoln was concerned about that and why the thirteenth amendment would become something for yeah skipping ahead and interestingly at the same time the enact the second confiscation act they act enacted militia and tell talks about that. Yeah so here you know for a couple years snack well a little over a year now. We have African American men who are laboring for the Union Army Right. Because that's what Butler originally allowed in this spreading But then the question becomes what about actually serving in the army and enlisting as a soldier and so here the militia act for the first time makes a lawful thing and You know actual enlistment assignments get a little slow to take off in the Manson patient proclamation in a sense reiterates that and You know encourages and and Opens up the possibility of a black man. Enlisting it's interesting the first confiscation act somewhat finally the An axe things that Butler insisted upon the second one enacts things Fremont Emma. Yeah so here. You got two generals in the field who most people don't know a whole lot of about John C. Freemont California but not as it's not a civil war service much but here you have to commanders in the field. Who have really made a difference in how you deal with this? Yes and wouldn't it be correct to say they're doing this. Because of the sheer volume of people. Oh yes the reacting are coming into yes their jurisdiction. They didn't invite this no they didn't ask for it and not just those two but others expressed a real reluctance times to even take this on. They've got a war to fight. You know so. They are reacting to huge numbers of people tens ends of thousands. The best estimate right now is at least five hundred thousand. The whole war ran away from slavery possible was more. I don't know but But I think it's so interesting how this kind of comes up from the military situation you know I mean there are some historians out there who want want to argue that. This was Lincoln's master plan from even before the war and I just don't buy it when you get into these things reactive. Yes yes and this when you start like really getting into the policies and when they they come up I mean. It's very improvised and slowly building. And you can really we see that. I don't see this as anybody's vision. No no no. And it's very military directed and he's very lawyer Arish plotting type most frankly most good lawyers are and he was a pretty good lawyer. What he does is? He's always concerned. Learned about whether he's correct or not. And that this is GonNa take a long time echoing by the way. A lot of his southern brethern learn who disfavored slavery but but understood. It's GonNa take a long time. Christie is a product of that same deal. Yeah in many many ways and and his ideas about it are very southern When you think about I mean even his his support for a while of colonization of maybe? The answer is to resettle enslaved people in Liberia or Haiti. I mean he held hold onto that into the middle of the war so that was very pretty him but he is clearly a reactor. Yeah in this in this drama and then of course in January of sixty three. The emancipation is the formal emancipation is is is issued a you did once that was issued d you find the landscape changing much after January a new area of sixty three dramatically. No I mean I think it's It's certainly clarified things in people's minds about what what the union was going to be doing but in terms of on the ground not really You know people have been running away for a couple years now. Now there's not a sudden increase in the numbers that I could see Maybe somebody'll just prove me at some point but it doesn't have a quick of impact. It's more just kind of changing the way people are thinking. I think that's really what it does it. I mean and I don't don't mean to downplay the proclamation. I mean that's pretty important. And there's good reason why some of the African American people in these camps and then all across even the north are holding celebrations for the proclamation You know even in Norfolk An around hamptons except for the proclamation. They hold a celebration so because they see kind of in the big picture what this is committed the union to do and that's still still important to people but as far as data dennis it just kind of it's the same sort of momentum continues to go I I. It's that that seems to be the way. It is a way I I can. I find it reading. But let's focus for amid on Kentucky. Okay boy in her story the people said Gee now there's resolution to know here's Kentucky Kentucky of course the slaves are are not freed under the emancipation proclamation yet. The second confiscation act makes it clear that maybe uh-huh if they can distinguish a slave comes in and Kentucky into a camp and they can distinguish that this was truly truly a person from a confederate owner. Then it would apply but then how do you how do you as official with this man. Who's come in now? How do you know for sure who own them you know? They didn't come with an identification card. You know it's interesting no they. Don't yeah I mean your driver's license in this actually happened. You know some of these officials say I can't distinguish one from the other. I can't figure out WHO's from confederate. Who's from union owner? You know this whole idea of distinguishing between them makes no sense. Yeah place like Kentucky. Yeah so you've got this hideous hideous ambiguity talking and title Young Kentucky uh-huh Okay. You got this this this this horrible hideous ambiguity talking but as the war progresses eighteen sixty to eighteen sixty three union armies are pressing deeper deeper and deeper into the confederacy. Kentucky was overwhelmed in By the February eighteen sixty two MHM literally overwhelmed and it all became occupied by union troops. And then those armies continue to move into Mississippi chippy. Tennessee was overwhelmed. Quickly and then the war really was being waged in Mississippi. The sippy Some in Alabama and Georgia in particular. And so all those slaves who I lived in Tennessee and Mississippi Alabama Georgia Eh. The army's move south they. The army wouldn't take care of them. Mostly Sherman nothing to do with them nor did grant. Yeah and so what happens to them. well there are some specially closer into the Mississippi River Valley Alley So West Tennessee Nevis actually becomes a big gathering point. Where you've got thousands of people who are sort of flocking? HANG AROUND MEMPHIS. I mean yeah you know armies on the move you know this is not. They don't want to see refugee slaves attached to them But when you start to see an army in place in like Memphis or Eventually Nashville and so forth. Then we start to see some big communities of refugees that are living there and Some are trying to go farther North into Missouri Actually into Ohio and that raises all sorts of questions for the Union to win some of these northern governors. Start to think. Wait a second. Are we going to start seeing a huge influx of former slaves and. They're not keen on that well. Well you know we've talked about this before but when after the second. The the emancipation was issued in January. A newspaper and Frankfort Kentucky Try Weekly editorialized that Kentucky shouldn't allow the emancipation to to It'd be enforced here nullified because all this is going to do is create refugees and indeed indeed state legislature nullified. The emancipation proclamation. He even though it was a union legislator. Can you imagine the only. Talk your head spin but So here's here's Kentucky. Obviously the ASLI dreadfully scared of this influx of refugees. And so you get refugees coming into Kentucky Talkie from Tennessee and Georgia. The emancipation treats basically. They're technically free. They're technically free three. Yes the Slaves in Kentucky which is at some point in some camps like Camp Nelson. There's like well if if they're from another place we can let them in you know but if they're from Kentucky we can't let's and then that air again. How do you distinguish really now? Yeah just chaos. Well they're they're. They're diaries of people here in Lexington. The Peter's go Francis. Peter was delightful but she records. You know the road to Richmond now. US twenty-five clogged logged with refugees. White and black mother. Oh Yeah Yeah. We forget that you know you've got a refugee problem of immense proportions this war and yeah and that's an S. even another subject it is yeah needs to be explored but here you have them all pouring in here and what what do you do you do with them Well you know you write Abeille about how many of the military camps. They found refuge in lots of them. And you record that some Three hundred grew different camps were established for slaves. Yeah and those there are more than the ones I've documented and they range range from those that were around for a few weeks and then had to uproot and evacuate to those that were around for almost four years. Yeah and they raised all the way up and down on the Mississippi River. That's really heaviest concentration. which makes sense because if you go back and look at Lincoln's map of this population it was most heavily concentrated in that cotton-growing region will absolutely and of course as even though grant did not welcome anywhere around? The army of the Tennessee is his army. Nevertheless grant move farther. South occupational troops followed them into all all those towns in Mississippi. Yeah simply to keep the peace and So you see in a map you have them. These camps dotted all along the banks of the Mississippi River in the middle of the river islands. To how can you imagine. Imagine imagine well you know we have as many of our listeners know Camp Nelson here in Central Kentucky just this side on this side of the Kentucky River and and the camp was started mid war eighteen sixty three and sixty four and sixty five. I mean either ninety thousand troops. Yeah at one point in time or another mind boggling. I know you go out today. And it's beautiful empty land. It's beautiful. Aw but imagine all those men on that land looked different. I remember years ago. Me and a friend went out there with a metal detector. This this is years ago. We were kids and we went up to the farmer who owned it. I think his name was as Berry and we ask these. Can we use I use this on your property he goes well wishers. You know. There's there's probably a good spot right of any of these pointing to a spot where there was a a provost provost marshals were prisoners of war and we were messing around over there and buttons came up. Wow No emme that places. Enormous in and it's such a treasure two zero and of course now as part of the national park system which is really rather exciting. It is But there were more than five hundred slaves poured into that camp and they actually built a village for eventually there were are thousands thousand towards the end. Yeah they did but you know it was again a slow and gradual process and it occurred in a very different way of every other place because of Kentucky's Union stamps and It really doesn't take off until eighteen. Sixty four you know it really I with the enlistment of black men and then after a great deal of You know it's minimizing. Its say unfortunate events but expulsions of women and children which were now really pretty traumatic It wasn't until early early. Eighteen sixty five really December January eighteen December sixty four January sixty five that Finally Women and children can come into so that's very late in the war There's that story of general speed FRY commander of that. Who is a you know well known and on from from Kentucky who was the commandant of Camp Nelson and he's the one who ordered all the women and children out right and so many of them died. Yeah especially the the one expulsion in November number sixty four involved. The Joseph Miller family right. Yeah this is sad understanding store so I mean there's over four hundred women and children who are taken outside in the camp it's seventeen degrees out That night and they have they find an empty meeting house and they have one fire. They can keep warm. They don't have food and so A little boy dies that night and Dan eventually other people die as well but the men the sole who were soldiers the husbands fathers were back at Camp Nelson Nelson wondering what's happened to my family and so some of them start walking out of the camp to go find their families and they do and one was Joseph Miller who was in the one hundred twenty four th us and He found his family and it was his son who had dyed his young son and he he went back to the camp and then he came back the next day to bury his son eighteen miles. Yes in this cold and roll various. And he's just distraught and but fortunately there were some sympathetic union officials and Camp Nelson who were not on board with expelling the women and Children Brin and what they do is they realized the power of stories and getting accounts of what happened. So they start taking depositions from Joseph Miller and from some other men who had gone looking for their families and each of these men Tele first-hand story and It was actually the quartermaster Camp Nelson. Who took these stories and started sending them to members of the Senate in Washington members of Congress to the newspapers and publicized? This he knew the power of the press basically and fortunately he did because it put enormous public spotlight on what speed Smith for I had done and and so many people in the union said no we cannot be army fighting for freedom and we're letting the wives and children of our soldiers die you know And so that that was a really pivotal moment. And Congress passed a new law that guarantee that any wife and child of a soldier would be treated as free and could come into camp. Wow so that makes camp Nelson a really significant place. Um for yet that other next step in union policy really pushing along. Yeah Yeah I mean. It's a patient Camp Nelson Nelson. Yeah he miller he buried that first boy who died was seven years old. Imagine walking eighteen miles back just to bury them. Then Joe Junior died. Yeah then His wife Isabella died right then. Maria died and then Calvin dot the entire and then died died in Georgia and he is buried over in the national cemetery at Camp Nelson. You can go see his headstone. It's just incredible. Yeah it's hard to break. It's heartbreaking. It really yeah J- And and a lot of it created by this ambiguity to what where what do we do. Yeah what aw right right right. Which is why I think for a long time? We've seen the emancipation proclamation. As the big clear cut moment you. I know overnight. Everybody was free but these are the stories that tell us just how much it had to be released would have fought for and how hard it was. Yeah you refer to it as the long emancipation. Which of course is what it is? Yeah and it could be said it's still going on many man people one of the things I I I really you. You made a for comment. That we've talked a lot about laws and proclamations proclamations government this and military that but the real ones who should be who struggled struggled and should be given credit for a mansion. Haitian are the African American slaves who sought Freedom Rita guess that they did it in so big a numbers that it constantly put pressure until will ultimately it happened. Yes and you know it's like Folks remembering their war dead. We all talk about about that. I mean our monuments around talk to the war dead. You can't build enough monuments to these word right just like in many ways. You can't bill enough monuments to those who lau- who are lost in battle title right but here is is a story that we are just starting to tell your the euro on the cutting edge of this we are and But interestingly as I was working on this book over that decade I started learning about out people in local communities where these camps were who have been working to try to get the story out of their local history So so around Fort Monroe Helena. Arkansas Mitchellville South Carolina. There's some really great descendants Um of some of these people local historians who are succeeding. And whether it's putting up a monument or in Helena Arkansas. They've created a whole park where the refugee camps once stood Others have helped push to get Fort Monroe to be a national national monuments. So I feel like I'm part of something a little bit bigger right now. We'll see yeah to get this history out there but you're you're you're really advancing the ball in fact you know Eddie question. And you've you've you have moved the ball. Aw significantly In publication of this book. I hope so thank you well. Thank you and amy have have a final thought. I just think that you summed it up really well. Just then that this was something pushed for and There is a whole story story and a group of people who are part of this war that we have to really begin to see more clearly. Yeah so I appreciate the opportunity to maybe here. It's just terrific to have you and I'm so glad you're here in in in Lexington and I love it. It's a it's a nice place. It isn't Nice Place Nice place to be. And while working on the book it was near Camp Nelson Well L.. I'm sure glad Camp Nelson is in the hands. It's in and by the way there's a case where local people started. Yes Oh that's I mean the the folks Jeff Jeff Jesmyn county years ago yeah and then incorporated the Honor Guard but it got the tax numbers charm years ago. But no those kind of things you love doing and Yeah so again. Thank you for being here. It's been great. Yeah I've enjoyed it. Become an American hero who participates in our mission by joining us at witnessing witnessing history dot org download our documentaries and free teacher education materials that conform to grade level education standards at PBS. Smarting Dot O._R._G.. Follow witnessing history on facebook twitter and linked in.
The Non-Prophets 18.15 with Kevin Stein, Jamie Boone, & Derek Hawke
"And we are the nonprofits. He said she looked at him. Askance yes I I know. But don't you think you Jamie Kevin Even Derek Hawk or saying that a few days early now. What do you mean he asked incredulously? We're still at the free thought library. Very and Austin Texas this because it's August third. She looked at him sadly inside. It should be the seventh. Look I know. The show is sponsored by the atheist. Easiest Community of Austin she said and I know it's a nonprofit Educational Organization for the Promotion of positive atheism and the separation of church and state. But I and she added talking over him. I get it that you're supposed to be able to call the voice mail at five twelve to twenty sixty five sixty one or visit their website at. WWW DOT atheist taivon community dot org to learn more will. Yeah but but now. It's not live when you broadcast every first and third Wednesday of each month from seven thirty ready to nine central time she cried her eyes pleading. What if people joined the chatroom by following the directions at www dot nonprofits radio dot com? What will they find? He looked at her helplessly. The find what they always find a community of like minded individuals. He spread his hands. They'll still poke fun at us an offer corrections and argue with each other. That's what it's for. But is that enough. She cast around looking for answers. What do we do now? Now now we sit back and enjoy the show. He said quietly. I do love the narrative Andro. Actually when you start sort of like you know it's another it's another Lubareism and then Yeah it was great. Yeah I think I do a little story you know pretty in welcome to the show as Dennis just said. I'm Jamie Boone with US guest appearing Derek Hawk daring lure you. And why are you here. Oh God in a friendly way to arguing. What do you do here Derek Hawk I am a Co host on Atheist Vanguard. I'm also youtuber ado entertainment payment via entertainment videos Origins and graphic arts and whatnot. But mostly I'm here to ask why you believe what you believe. Leave a decent question. Why come why come you believe that you believe that Yeah and there's that. So what have you been up to the last week. That's interesting and relevant. You put me Dennis. I Dennis even to anything. Yeah I've I've been up not selling a damn thing on my store. Yeah where where can people find your star. Well they wanted to commercial thing going to find it. Main quests studios so they could main studios doc. If they wanted to learn more they could Google Google main quest studios. Yes ain't cool and they would. They would give your work the attention that it does. Yes you got anything else to add before we go go into our first story now well lucky for you Or a unluckily given that I've put this much. Hey Derek carry the show I think you you have our first story. Yes I do It's called went. XS need help. They call him the Super Bowl cyst by John Lake. CNN This was sent from a viewer. A Kurt -mercial from via the TV at e mail DOT COM. Thank you Kurt So this article again comes from CNN. It is In regards to a priest to a consultant to the Catholic Church on exorcisms consultant a consultant. A this is just like the movie the conjuring the freaking expert. Yes so he believes that there is no contradictions between the mysticism of Catholicism that mythology and science I think well let go ahead. Okay Yep so the Doctors Dr Richard Gallagher. Who is an Ivy league-educated board certified psychiatrist who teaches at the Columbia University in New York Medical College And yet somehow stealing dylan idiot and still an idiot still wrong. Yeah so he claimed to be the mediator between What is supernatural natural and what is true mental health? I feel like I could do that job as well get very easily. I don't eat it credentials. Also we're doing no true mental health now as A. I think he thinks it's some things right. Gallagher calls himself a consultant on demonic positions. The past twenty five years. He has helped clergy distinguished between mental illness. What he calls the real thing? He estimates that he has seen more cases of possession than any other physician in the world world. which I think he's seen this production could be accurate of all that he ever said was no? It's not possession. It's a the logical problem but apparently that's not what he's saying. Yeah no that was my illusion was I. I think that I could evaluate Yeah has these behaviors. Do you think it's demonic a possession or should this be an issue for mental health provide the correct answer hit rate than this guy because sometimes times. He's wrong now. Have you ever experienced something that you could attribute that at without a critical mind contribute to tribute to a supernatural. Well because our mind is a crazy thing. We're pattern seeking creatures. Yeah okay well. Consciousness conscious but but that's but that's an argument humint from ignorance. Guess I don't know how it works. No other experts that does not point me in a direction for an explanation right now when you say that do you mean in and like Oh. Have you ever had a weird experience. That's the when it comes to mind is a sleep paralysis. Oh phenomenon okay I got you mean. Now I've suffered from sleep paralysis and it actually was triggered during a time when I was searching I was like I bought a Ouija board so I could get lottery numbers as stupid. I was well right wrong wrong in the work but I was convincing myself to there was some other world out there and that it had I had tapped in this something and I do I ex exactly I experienced A chronic sleep paralysis and it was very invasive Looking back on it I saw how easily tricked myself into believe or attributing cause to this but also what I saw was how quickly others jumped jumped. In on his bandwagon solutions had interventions. And they were all either go see a priest or go light. Light a candle or sage in the air. I don't like say it's them smell. Good and I was in a military dorm room. And you know if you will burning sage you you get that little secret police come in and knocking on your door wondering what you smoking up in there and the the the weirdest things I've had are like like things that I didn't know how to visually Parse I mean it was either a tricky perspective or something but I'm looking at the thing I'm going what is that. I'm turning my head this way and that and nothing's I can't describe it I can. It's weird it's like Miss Interpretations Your Brain is making on like lights and shadow is an artist. You can see the I was hanging out with some friends and one of them was actually an ex Catholic priest. Who is currently? I'm meteorologist meteorologists. I ain't going to get into that story but I was looking at a corner and there was a plant house plant and I took turn him as I said. This is how this is how how religion works if you look at that plant and you look at a certain way you see that leaf there. That's your hair. You see that other leaf and that stemmed that's right. There's the Virgin. Mary and ooh he sought creatures. Yeah We de usually. It's almost like it's almost like a plant. What I was doing when was playing a game of mind control I could I could convince you or I could make you see what I wanted to see you for and this is just an amateur sure? There are literally prevented conman airs as principal yet. Every time I go down town to Six Hundred River. I can find one of these. A professional who Who makes people float and disappeared into into basically a giant hamster wheel? And you know. That's not all that Esther's follies has to offer an addition to the Magic Act. So man I can't. I can't stress. How dangerous this type of thinking is when you think mental illness and demon possession or any type of supernatural connection is so dangerous it is so demeaning to people who actually suffer from these diseases whether it be hopeful blown schizophrenia Roy or simple depression? Yeah because you also then provide no answers and give No capacity passes for further treatment whatsoever. Does he have more to say on one. Do we have any idea what it is to be a consulting priest. I was pretty sure that the Catholic Church didn't get outside help when it was sounds like the basis for a movie or TV. Show called the No I haven't seen the conjuring injuring is it. As bad as I thought it was going to be. Good really I got scared Well They do the the the article does have to have been found the exact portion of it but it doesn't talk about how the secret of the Catholic churches and it's rare that it brings an outsider in but because of his long standing relationship with the Catholic Church in the report they developed and his belief in demons. You that helps so gallagher has two ways of giving back. He says helping the mentally mentally ill as well as the possessed I think one of those is great. While contemporary key because all systems don't see faith and scientists contradictory nails leaders insist that possession miracles angels exist the global warming Israel the evolution and miracles must be documented with scientific vigor. So have they documented holes because that tells me whether or not they're using scientific vigor Chelsea this is when we get into other articles like about bigfoot bigfoot. Oh is he is he a big feet hunter. He hunts them feet. Big fetuses footer. I met aerobic quitter. bigfoot hunters there. They've got a big time. Waste of a hobby. That's right Sh- shoot man. It's interesting because it's the Catholic. Church won't get outside help from experts. If it's trying to deal with child rapists but it will for demons right point they take that very seriously. Yeah I mean oh my gosh those demons. We need this outside help. But no. We've got the child. Rapists awesome control apparent. This reminds me of a story When I was young in church we had our nondenominational fundamentalist? Dick Van jellicoe search. I'm sorry to hear that and this. This preacher got up on stage and I remember this specifically. He talked about When he was younger he used to go witness witness to the patients at the mental hospital? The State Hospital. Oh doubtless help. Well he would say that when he would arrive live. The inmate says he referred to them would get all riley behind their closed doors with And they would scream and yell the moment he walked in and they would point and say. Hey that that man is covered in blood. That man is covered in blood. And it's a and even as a child I'm like that is bullshit shit. Yeah I was a ten year old and I was like well shit and the arm the heart and this is one. This is is when you see you know certain religions especially the Vanja illegals at weaponize mental illness is it's used to justify their religion We we just discussed the IB church. Were they actually were praying for depression to fall upon the gay population so they would kill themselves before for the government on them. Yeah yeah that that's a whole extra bag of worms of them all all them non streets to die. I don't think they've ever said non straight so. Yeah so they've got insulting the believes in demons. I mean when I was growing up up it used to be that like you'd make fun of the medicine. Man and his shaking of rattles drive the evil spirits away. Wow it's like mainstream has embraced demons and rattle shaking and still living in Austin in tech this general area. Even the South Have you herded the Kundun. Data's now I've heard of them but I don't know that they are the Mexican Tex. Mex witchdoctors Saul Casually Ashley a female or a really in depth and kiss all the schism as well kind of like write a kind of the homeopathic medicine and witchcraft and and Kazeem if there's a lot of Sort of mixing of Catholicism. And what were you know. The local mythology usually usually yeah the the spiritual mash up throughout Central and South America and for. But you know what I get it. This is cool. Demons are cool. They make me cool stories. They make for the hero. ICK story of light against darkness darkness battle between good and evil. Where the good guy wins and honestly I never got it? How great narrative it does? The narrative is much better Actually this is a sort of illness and Elements of it may very well stick with you for the rest of your life and to treat it. You have to change aspects of the way that you live eh through therapies and perhaps continue. Take medication is much more boring in like. Yeah but as I. It's not me it's something from outside me so I wanNA dramatic attic ritual that banishes the demon so the one of these. Things is much more appealing to the human mind powers of Christian because they believe one of the powers that was promised by Christ was the ability to cast out humans right cast out demons in his name and his name. Actually you just have to. They fear his name. She just mentioned his name. And Yeah no demons here boom power Christ compels you stay. Cheese is taken demons. They can detect supernatural supernatural beings and positively identify them and then rid of them. Yes I normally wandering into the room gets. It's really cold and you can see your stress. These weird Nick crosses fall off the floor of the demons. Have superpowers and the exorcists have superpowers. So it's bizarre. Yeah well again it's the like mightier than you would act and fighting about a narrative. Ray We've the recently the giant ain't arc of Tony Stark from If you will then movie I will demon possessed by. That's not how yeah. Well that's not how this works and doesn't work at all Demon possessed has to hell out of you. You're looking on the phrase I will haunt you I would also. That's not a thing I'll do that to become a dream. Shit Cammisa far. Is there any mythology where after you die and potentially become a ghost you can link Mark Levin App eventually a demon angel or Demon L.. Ghost possessions. There's oh Michael Landon Sr to a Moose. TV's he's doing good and he can level it to be an angel. Oh cool eight a question that you know evil people going to heaven. When I was a kid I got the impression Russian evil people going to heaven? Could you know if they were really evil and get their pitch for and four tail and and little horns if they just really applied themselves enough just like you know go to heaven get their wings in their little harp and Staus seamy you mean evil people going to hell people going to help. They're evil enough and really apply themselves. You continue from our team and the soul be Adina Khokar. That's what I thought I was GONNA say that I I thought you came back and became a demon in in haunted people that spoiled movies. Well okay. I believe special circle of Hell Chris. Very recent look in my version of all of this it would be like not not good omens inspired but like It's a quasi Dan Quarles. I like Douglas. Adams was like okay so you would die. I and your spirit gets pro goes through hell processing. So you have a grievance still on earth with me spoiling movie for example and so you would apply I for a permission to haunt. Yeah and then if granted that you would go and do that and then you could try and apply yourself and work your way up through the bureaucratic addict systems of hell. Now I'd probably stick with you till I'm done well. No little whisper ear demonstrated that you headed off your shelf. Yeah but if you demonstrated that you had skill in doing that then you might be tapped for like demon training and if you worked and applied yourself enough you could graduate like demon school and do this. I mean w the United Casual Christians to buy into it because as long as you say that bureaucracies are hell you can get lots people so hills like a pyramid scheme. I mean yes. Asu could do that as well. I think in verse it circles of Hell Down. Rows is if Dante had come up with a special circle of hell just for people who spoil movies and until motion pictures were invented people would go. It says movies here but I have no idea what that it means in. And then we invented movies and then we know exactly that would actually be evidence and actually if it included. This is how you right and of course you know real film and tell the story it'd be like no I have divine knowledge that eventually these will be created And this visit how this will work and not everyone will see the same time and if you spoil surprise endings Then here's the circle of how right now it's empty right. Renovations will be done long before the first movie is is made. And it's going to be terrible. Just you wait and hope not to see so. I have to imagine that people spoiled the ends of Greek plays you know people are people are assholes. And you'd think that there'd be a a bunch of people being in Demon possessed because they're assholes in life and they're getting backed by the people that they pissed off then that's not happening right because if he spoiled that movie I damn his hell would be ponting his ass are you. Are you telling me that my version of Hell and cosmic after you're dead. Whatever that I've just made up isn't true that's insulting to me? I believe this on faiths or how dare you question lie bureaucratic Hell Scheme. My my magic baby is better than your magic babies. Well my what's different. Oh No it's my my sky cake beads your skywalk Lavar basically. It's the it's the Arkansas. No it's a it's a CAIRN awesome combat and it might be some kind of desert but fight there brings up an elastic shared vanguard during alive episode the live chat. I asked the question If Jesus were mortal Kombat figure what would his fatality no you. You definitely crucified on me. or or he would hang them such that their guts Spilled out. Well there's a fields. There's a youtuber. biotic. Dance intro. One of her intros is a mortal mortal combat That she mocked up where where she's fighting Sing God and she's is going logic logic spanning the lot of being alive I defeats Gods so so I see it as. AH THE ROOM GETS DIM and he goes. Jesus wins fatality frolic victory and he goes like this spreads his arm wide open the warns come out of the ground and rip you apart. Oh Wow okay we know for listening. I think so it should either be over here. He crucify himself probably going across. And now that's a fatality. You're doing it on your victim. Yes okay so either. His victim should get crucified or is victim. Should suffer the supposed right eight. Both of them of Knowing forgotten being crucified as a good thing. Yeah that's what happens to him. Or Ju Ju just face where you're he's hung and has got spill out. No no he falls in the a pit on. It's it's it's one of them. There's two version. Oh Yeah me like falls down explode slow. The other things themselves making a fields Unable to grow things because he bought it with his thirty shekels of thirty pieces of silver. I'm sorry I forgot to tell you guys at my superpower is is tangential thinking have are correct field of battle and we are. We are far from from consultants consultants for the Catholic. And if we are the nonprofits If you want to hear interesting story Couple of weeks ago was here during the volunteer and here during the day and I was wearing a nonprofit shirt. Okay I went to go pick up lunch at a really nice little Italian restaurant and I was wondering nonprofit shirt and a woman comes up to me. Looks at my share goes amen brother. Oh boy maybe she got it. Maybe she didn't hard to tell so. You're what you're wearing shirts. As his atheists are nonprofit corral has load everything on maybe she thought that it was like a dig at atheist. I think so like they're not profits. Thinks she yeah yeah where he brother Cool Nice. It's yeah which which. Well the triangle implant in the triangle. I don't know the names of the players it's fine. How long has this consulting priest been twenty years or sizing demon wall? Okay well wait so actually hold on. Does he perform we five years. Does he partake in the Ex's him or does he just consultant He looks like he So the movie. The right was based on Thomas's work He's respected in feel Way Not like most of the the right with the Anthony Hopkins like a spirit. No Anthony Hopkins her that Anthony Hopkins Hannibal Lecter. But the right is in as in like All right right okay yellow. That was a mind into believing that there were actual deemed. Possessions was an incident and he had with a middle aged woman who demonstrated needed to him that he was that she was actually demon possessed Relieving Gallagher vollers thoughts or doubts are objects would fly off the shelf. If she somehow new personal details of Gallagher's life how his mother died of ovarian cancer the fact that two cats and his house went beserk fighting each other every tonight he was talking on the phone. Julius Prese one night when both men heard one of the genome demon voices. That came from Julius during her trances is even though she was nowhere near the phone or thousands of miles away while he was never find great. I'm glad he has a raft of anecdotes to justify everything slaves. It's possible that There's a there's this onion news network bit where it's like. Here's this man with advice on on how to get revenge and he gives this like like a lengthy description of like someone cuts you off in traffic and so you you casually follow them home but you don't do anything you just leave and then you you know you mess up their garbage in ways that they you know they don't know and you do all these tiny little things to ruin their life. This woman could be that because you you can figure out okay. There's cats fight near his house and if you know where he lives and he's talking on the phone and this is what twenty five years ago so it's a landline seen tapa landline and do the same voice that you've done in his house. and Oh my gosh. His mother died of ovarian twenty years ago. They still right all of these obituaries. Zoll information formation that a mental list could find easily to perform psyche ritual. So I don't think this is what happened. But if possible explanation than that and so maybe Drives aggressively in. This lady was done with somebody in somebody could just be fucking with him that or even more likely than that It's all in your head was in the military I worked in a On a psychiatric ward and we walk in they would all go guys covered in black. No one of us. But we had a patient who their M- their mother it was schizophrenic. And Him and her and her brother would mess with their mother by changing the clocks home man moving things he's here and there it said. Wow I mean. There's Iran of applauded applauded her. I mean there's a prank that a couple of my friends played on a another one of my friends. which is that? They had access to this person's apartment And there's a couple of there and so the husband came home and you know. He went out in their backyard and he was doing something out there. And so a Eh Kimmel. Because we're going to meet their May rearrange the furniture and then hid in a closet and the white came home She went wow all all the furniture's rearranged okay my husband's in the back so she goes in the back and asks like why is what you did. You rearrange the furniture for a reason and while the couple was in the backyard talking out of the closet and they put all of the furniture back to where it was normally and then hid again so from from the husband's perspective he comes home. Everything's fine whatever and then his wife comes home and goes you've why have you moved all the furniture around. Everything's in a different place and they go back in and everything looks normal again. That's like crazy. She's like no no no. It was moved it was. I swear this couch was over here. This service because I have And it was my own because I'm just stupid but was was I went. I went to go drop off a prescription at Heb. And so there's getty school road and then there's the seventy nine. The first day I went to the Gaddi School road. I dropped on prescription the next day I went to the other road and the other. HEB which was a super Heb in everything even had like an electronic store right right. I'm like his friend and it is such a disorientating experience. When you know that you're not crazy but something is off? Something reality just does not right. You're something just does not fit together. That's a demon Daemon your this is where teamwork spoiled. Somebody's movie what I what I have. Difficulty understanding is when people get in a situation like that mall not like like that. They really have a mental problem. Right and maybe maybe it's you. I don't experience these people personally and maybe it's just treatment in the movies in the movies lie but often it seems to me that if you if you say you see something and everybody else says No. It's not there no no it's white cedar defer to the to the people who who would say no. It's not there or you defer to the supernatural or you you deferred to the supernatural. Which is the insane thing i? It seems like that dress is demon possessed so yeah I mean return it honey if sometimes but it's black and blue so I hear what you're saying Yeah I mean you see you know people getting all paranoid and all this stuff and you go and it's like well find someone you trust and then just just let them handle your interpretation of every right and that's the key the interpretation Whether it be somebody who is suffering from depression and joins a church and get stimulated Maryland story okay. The mentally the neuron start to fire the door from just oh yeah with people and you tribute to Jesus or you find your keys there. He turned coke and Pepsi. Doesn't matter right I mean I feel like the devil turns coke and Pepsi but Yeah I'd I'd also like to emphasize that you don't have to have avodados. Turns Coke Coke Zero. Actually I think the drinks coke zero his Yes so it's Yeah I'd like to say that it doesn't take mental illness to be wrong or right loosening. Everyone does a youtube more often than you know. Because there's no way to distinguish it from your perspective at all as as non-believers have you ever been in a situation situation where he wanted to attribute something to a supernatural cause or you wished it so hard that there was a heaven or that there was a god or that prayer. Did work or that you could believe again. Well no I have. I mean when I when when I lose a loved one or pet or something I go gosh. I wish there was a place where they could be. You know happy for eternity. That would be freaking. Awesome yeah you know but I know it's not true and then I have to go so last year Argonne last year. My grandmother passed away from Pancreatic Cancer And thank you and I went I went through. What would I consider? Consider a crisis of faith where I wanted faith a one so bad I wanted there to be a heaven. I wanted my grandmother to be there. I wanted at the just the possibility that I would see her again. Would really wanted was the comfort that everybody else had from believing this Untruth right yeah I would. I wouldn't call it comfort. I'd say you would want the same vehicle for denial. Yeah exactly no padding having comforting each other they they were grieving together. I didn't know how to grieve because I was made filters made to feel guilty about grieving wire are you said you don't believe in nothing I was on because I- I insulted them because I didn't believe my grandmother. There was heaven in heaven because she didn't deserve to go to heaven because there is no heaven. Yeah right you don't think she's eating sky cake. What you want her to starve it? Did you ask why they weren't happy. She was in paradise. No I was watching to know because I was watching him. Fight over the inheritance. Don't yeah man it because Derek's not an Asu yes he wasn't being treated other people attacking you your dad but you know that is the logical inference. There it's likely experience it is it has an. I don't know hottest say it other than it has been a spiritual experience where I can start to discover that part of my psyche which I really had never considered before. Never I really thought about death when I dream about my grandmother. All the time In there so real inner comforting. And maybe it's a defense mechanism. I know it's not her right. I know it's not any spirit. But they are so real and I take comfort and I take joy in those experiences that can I can touch her I. Ah I remember touching her. I remember I can feel her nails into my hand. That's how but like it was intense. Yeah we can visualize these these things And I take comfort in that if only you could just practicing sketching again. I'm getting back good. I like it as a coloring book. But D- what do you build a whole with the whole heaven or do you invent your your own realm. I did that with my cat so my I had a Siamese cat of ten years and he was he was what I would see the closest closest thing to consider to a soulmate. I bonded with this thing. You can get that way and when I moved up here. He developed a severe allergy where he just basically really couldn't breathe. He was suffocating. And when I put him down a cradle his hand in my hand in his head in my hand and I looked into his eyes and this cat was known known for his eye contact who's just such intense eye contact and I watched him go in my mind. I thought that if when he went if we were connected in this way say that when he went that he would take a little bit of me with him and that he would exist in this realm of comfort for all eternity turnkey and if basically he would take a little bit of me with him and I would have a little bit of him left with me and created this. This like we did with the something I created this fantasy because this little creature had brought me so much joy and so much love and I could not bear the thought of the universe going on without the presence of this wonderful little richer I love you riley. I'm glad that you found a way to to grieve that loss. Yeah I'm I'm still working on the most recent one but that one was a hard one I'm sorry you're in it. Also it really puts your atheism and your non believing your skepticism to test. Because when you're when you're when life's going great and I get a discussion with a lot of eighty is about this about dying loss like I'm not scared of dying. There's just really the matter of fact there's nothing after death when I'm gone. I'm gone Blah Blah Blah Blah without. You know and I'm I'm like what I don't really think you really get it. Yeah there's I I'm not afraid of dying I am afraid of how I die. uh-huh yeah I'm afraid I I'm I just can't concede the thought of again the university going on without me and my own ego central. I'm yeah I'm I'm I'm I'm afraid of you know how it might feel to die. I'm also disappointed in what I'll miss. Yes yes stag and I was thinking movies you know I was like there's people that died last month that don't get to see avengers and right or don't know how the Star Wars that really looking forward to it but didn't make it. Yeah Yeah it's definitely now new world problems. Yeah Yeah Yeah I mean just the thought that there's so much I'm going to miss and I'm not GonNa be here for that and I question what about my consciousness. What happens to all of this it? Does it just blink out and if it blinks out as far as I know man I could accept that but I could also conceive the thought that maybe there is something out there here. I don't know I would be cool. It's like demons are cool. Yeah just like angels are cool just like Brenham of hell the realm of heaven the journeys get there. Those are cool there imaginative things either drink or I'm still trying to get my hands around. This reality is we can observe you. Add a whole spiritual realm and then after decide. Okay actually learn how to use magic. How strong as ED? Because we're not an artist because I don't have the skill doesn't mean I don't have the vision and inspiration. I definitely have you can get you paint by numbers I am going to. You know what I'm GonNa do. I'M GONNA sketch getting possessed by a demon for figure right the first one No no it's not it's going to be beautifully sketched of just the demon kicking you right in the bud love. You Not Really Guinness Demon. But I'm still took issue if you ruined move I'm not GonNa ruin the movie. God I'm GonNa be like all right. Sit back in the couch. They're going to watch it now and then boom can't can't be ruined for you quit talking about possessing. Do we ever do story. We do have another news story. Do you want to introduce the Joshua Hare story free. Yeah Oh If you believe that you are possessed by a demon or experiencing mental health issues. Please visit a licensed. I A Mental Health Professional Act. There is the I've forgotten the name. Well there's the the and we'll sit beyond belief network waiting give We reference it every darrow raise organization. How am I blanking on this producers? Please say the name of the thing in my years right now because I don't I can't remember what it is recovery recovering from religion. Thank you Derek Who is not a producer At the moment yeah recovering from religion taste of watching of and yeah. They have to secular therapist project as well. So you'll get a therapist. That's not going to try and tell you that you're possessed by a demon Because is the odds are with Therapy when occasion treatment You can live a normal life. Don't be afraid of demons all right so our next story. Why don't you introduce us? To Joshua Harris Yeah So this is a CNN story. Submitted by Brian Wilson that'd be Thank you Ryan via the nonprofits email and this is a pasture who wrote a the best selling relationship books as marriage is over and he is no longer a Christian. Joshua Harris is the author of. I kissed dating in good biweekly railed against sex before marriage and homosexuality sold over one million copies and became a fixture and Christian youth groups after coming out twenty two years ago. So we're going in as kind of a quarter of a century type after the book came out by the way so he is now refuted all of the the findings of that book. Yeah he's he's Kiss dating goodbye. Goodbye and Christianity. or He's he has kissed kissed. I kissed dating. Goodbye Goodbye It'll be the thing we are. He said he's fallen away. I think was the phrasing he says I've lived. I've lived in in repentance for the past several years reprinting of myself. Righteousness my fear based approach to life. The teaching of my books my views of women in the church in my approach of two pair team to name. I'm a few. Wow he wrote in a post Presently self-aware Yup he also says to all LGBTQ plus community. I want to say that I'm sorry for the views that I've taught in my books and as a pasture regarding sexuality I regret standing against marriage equality for not affirming you or your place in the church and and for any ways in my writing and speaking contributed to culture of exclusion and bigotry. I hope you can forgive. Me is also. He's also announced the ending adding of his twenty one year marriage after realizing that significant changes have taken place in both of us. Yeah I mean I don't know whether the CNN coverage of it mentioned it but he did say recently as well that he's not uh-huh I've D- converted or all. I don't believe in Jesus but he's I think fallen away is a phrase that he referenced to as well Go into a greater detail in a place where I would find my own faith really shaken rate. So he's he's saying all of the things in indicating things that his mind to lead me to believe that It says well Riding on Instagram by all measurements that I have for defining a Christian. I am not aww Christian. Interesting oddly enough. That was how I determined. I was an atheist back in the day. I looked at myself as well. I fit fit the definition. Okay I guess that's what he's he's not he's Ba word yet Yeah were you like a hard core evangelical. Oh Oh I never had religion okay. You know as a little kid I thought it was entertainment for adults. I I never believed it. I thought it was like Santa Claus for adult. Yeah and then I found out no they actually believe it and I went holy crap so it took me a long time to admit but I am. I am an abuse survivor of religious. It just abuse As well as the Sowell and all the I mean so early I mean in an ideal world Mr Harris would see this but yeah reach out. We're here for you Jamie at eight theus hyphen community dot org or nine splitter her Jamie within or find me on instagram at Jamie the heathen I am an artist. He has stick figure avatars. I do not have stick figure. AVATARS my face is my first piece of art. It's fantastic. That was the most vain sentence I've ever said in my life. You're welcome welcome thank you. Yeah so it's interesting because it's not just like bestselling like relationship book. He's the Sahn John of What is his name to Yeah of Greg Harris Who Sort of kicked off the whole homeschooling movement women and the purity movement and all of like? Yes so all of that you know who should we even hold hands purity movement crap This is right there right. In the center of it in the Home Schooling Movement you know Covenant Life Church all of this us And he's sort of step away from that although it this isn't the first time in his life where he's been in a situation that was shitty. Eddie and his latent humanism has trumped as Christianity because he was the senior Pastor Covenant Life Church Thirty Eighty And in two thousand fifteen. He announced his resignation from that role. Due to a desire to broaden his views and connect to other parts of Christianity he said the isolation relation of covenant life and a small cluster of churches of which was a part which is how these sort of fundamentals colts form may have fed leadership mistakes including the decision of pastors himself among them to handle a child sex abuse case internally internally instead of going to police so for all of the people that want to defend the mishandling of child rape cases is by this religious institution or that religious institution or even secular institutions ago. Will they were there. They felt trapped. Had these institutional pressures I really understand that as an influence on a person's choice that doesn't make the wrong choice right. You go to the police and I think that at this point Josh Harris would probably agree with me on that one And good on him for resigning from that position On that basis. Good for you reach out. I think it'd be great to have a conversation. We're seeing a lot of this Normalization within religion of the LGBT she bt plus q community To me this is hopes that this is the death rattle of this old generation of big get sent haters within the. I mean. We're never going to get rid of religion totally diverging it. There's a purge going on That because they are not going to survive with the same ideals in the same Yeah conduct they've been going. You know the the the secret of the the way they're doing things it's just not right cultural move ahead without them correct. Yeah I mean people say things like. We're never going to get rid of religion altogether. We're never going to get rid of religion together. I don't know where that statement conclusion sentiment comes from or reality but no. I don't think that it does because it's predict the future but so it can't be such a demon possessed you that I can predict the future and one you said you were. You were only capable of doing that after and are sort of. Here's the point. There are religions religions that are dead. Yes so there are new born. It is possible that they can die. Yes I mean but new ones are born yes yes yes. And the number of people that are without them increases yes and of course every believer thinks. Oh well the only reason those other ones die where they they weren't there is also true true. Yeah Yeah Yeah so I think you had well this brings up another interesting point So we're seeing normalization of the lesbian. LGBT community in the Western civilizations their societies The church the religious institutes. They've lost the the war on a forget. We'll call that type of war but that war of the gay warm Gateway Yup and now the great and now leasing. They've lost at war for the popular war. The popular opinion. Yeah and now. They're moving to Africa engineers. They've been they've been doing missionary work in Africa for for a long time but the game upped it. They upped it. Yeah they were wear. It can be effective for church. That's why they are cracking down on that because they have a larger influence -fluenced from their their communities on the African continent. I know that some of the The missionaries have been declared war criminals because they were so involved in the politics they were involved in the attempt to Have Gay sex as a death penalty. I think now's house just pro life imprisonment but you're talking about in Uganda. Yes specifically yeah. I forgot that guy's name he has been to sounds like Valerie's days valid identification there. Yeah get we're criminal. Sure you have them burning their children as witches. Yeah God right or worst. The it's the suffering they are. They're going where they they're going. They're they're being stamped out. They've lost to the world is waking up to the reality that humans are humans in large. Part I mean I wouldn't say don't be become complacent and feel like you shouldn't be involved and help with that. The reason why that's happening is that more people are involved in helping with that but at the present moment The Gay war appears to be going well. Fingers crossed Gay War trademark Of course that's a supernatural thing so look for the banner Eh Ward. Where my lucky shirt? Yeah that's a stick figure wholly negate. WAIT WHAT IS A. What does the supernatural thing the gay war or no keeping in your fingers crossed? Oh yeah but does that come from do you know I know. I don't know where it comes from your. Take your fingers like cross your fingers in sticking behind your back when they're dealing when you're trying to scam somebody it's a witch thing it's a witch thing would be good what you WanNa hear something funny. I have a confession on nonprofit today. I have a confession the confession ha gods are anyone I have no problem taking the Lord's name in vain. Blasphemy yeah all of that. Have no problem but you cannot get me in a darkened bathroom and say bloody Mary to No that's if you say it backwards. What wow with at the end of this three am local time where she died I think? Oh Wow so where did where did what time zone to this person dying again. I'm GONNA test this. It's going to be the most weird video ever because you're going to say yeah. You know what I'm I'm GonNa do is nice knowing you. Yeah I'm going to test it I'M GONNA go. We're going to see you again. Yeah I Miss GonNa Miss You. I think you are when. Where did this purse? You're GonNa make me research which this urban legend I am. I am tit. You'll be the and while you're added do the candyman to what okay I've heard of Mary. What does candyman based on that one? Yeah Yeah say three times that when you gotta say three times so three times wear. What is the dark bathroom mirror? All right so what objects are needed to be in a room for it to be a bathroom. It needs a toilet and a sink. And that's it in a mirror. Yeah what if it does if okay okay. Does it need a bath. Don't be ridiculous. I'm just happy to have been used ever like the bathroom through. Yeah cleaned if you're going to die in there. Then what if. It's a new one like what if what. If I built a house. I think bloody Mary would appreciate. It was a brand new bathroom right. Well I don't see sticky mayor status bathroom. It's more of the dark in the mirror. All right so what you're saying saying is if you never flush toilet you will be safe from employed to stink up Mary. That's you're not. He's he's now is making urban legends stick with the ones that exists. But does this candyman thing Dennis. Have you heard you've heard. Yeah so it's not another thing that Bolton Bolton actual movie made about that well I am moving is just the same thing as bloody Mary. You say okay can you basically what's the difference. What do they do a hook and yes? NBC's angle. Why okay why? They don't ask all right when you say it in your bathroom you'll find out. Yeah Hey you know I will happen Nice knowing you. I have every reason not to believe that that Oh also something like this happened in the show supernatural. I think which therefore yeah. Yeah I mean not real. I'll tell your mama that you loved her. You don't know my Mama Mama I don't WanNa know what you I'd say. I WANNA say Mama Boone. I told him not to do it. I dear she hates being called Mama. I told her I told him not to dirt but he did it anyway. And now he's flattered all over wall only a call. Who are you GONNA call? It's going. That'd be Mary or is it going to be candyman. What's the what do they do? Do I get killed differently if I call one versus the other and then the then you're not supposed to watch the video that that gets mysteriously delivered to that is the ring I i. There's no do you do you the phone or if she calls you goes no. I feel like I feel like. They need to refill that for the modern era where. It's more realistic. where it's like? Doc I duNno this number. It's like a voicemail. I don't check that someone is trying to send you a text message blocked from unknown number even take seven days. It's like Oh you've written the word out it doesn't count got just the word seven. Is it seven business days. This would if Monday is a bank holiday. Yeah Oh oh. That's what I was the count. The Lord's Day right is it eastern or central time. Because what if I give you seven days while I'm in central and eastern does that mean you getting to one hundred sixty eight hours from the phones. Okay Okay which is into seven twenty four hour. Okay you you so you see stunned because I have an answer for this like that would be my some give me again ruling on precisely that one part of this no. I'm stunned that you're going to do it. Why I get create con- don't believe I'm telling you they're gonNA open the bathroom door and I was going to be as a pink head ban? Everything has gone. What is whether it's depending on who you do? which h okay which one disappeared? Any you pick. I choose how I get killed after they've shown up. What is it? Okay if I summoned bloody Mary. What does bloody Mary do she gets you? That's not the same as the boogeyman. I presume I don't even bring him. Lord are there actual specific thing about the boogeyman. Ause it under the bed. What Guy Yeah? There's way more ruin my closet than under the bed. Boogeyman come out as the boogeyman wheeled firearms. uh-huh he finds them in your house. No He's just a shadow dude. Come on I don't know all right. Educate me tell me about the boogeyman just a little bit one. Don't don't do what you're told her gets you. Yeah he gets you. What do you do seem to be thing? That means he's gets you in. Your thing is not to get got because we get you. You've gotten got and you can't get that back again. Don't get got good man all right. And if I don't finish my food celenia the the pickle man is GonNa come now. You're being ridiculous. No no that is a reference to record little kid when you were a little kid in your parents go. I'm GonNa get you I'm GonNa get you a a new shriek and run around. It was just basically so. He's a tickle monster monster boogeyman gets you. He blows raspberries on your stomach. And then tickles you. Yeah that actually I might. Okay feel uncomfortable with your feet hanging over the side of your bed no not anymore. No not anymore. I got along and fewer isn't lava anymore either. So that is that's a fun. GAME LAVA HOT LAVA HOT law. That is actually one of my favorite episodes of community. Where he's like we're gonNA play the floors Lov of Whatever prize for those that win back but you can't use backpacks chair? Whatever this was great chair Walker occur is attack if you watch all of community and you will understand how many references I casually throw into my conversely? I have seen a video on social media where a social effects artist did a bunch of this stuff with his little kid created the patent so and so his kid was in a room where the floor was lava. And the kids sleeping from the Hasek to the Kyle and doing stuff like this and it looks totally totally good. Oh yeah he did a bunch of did a bunch of them yeah. Different things is a captain. Disillusion I don't know did you see the one where he did of Alien No. I don't tell the kid to go through the trash. And it's like an ailing in a hatchery. Thing no more. Wow that's cool. It's really good thing I saw recently. That impressed me was the trailer for the next Pixar movie where this guy goes out to throw out the trash and the trash the lives. Aw left the lid off of the trash and so there's all these unicorns rooting around in the trash. And when he goes shoe get Outta here they they they they they do what I guess raccoons do they got low. History scampered off what guys going UNICORNS. The next Pixar movie is one where it's in a world where the next Pixar movies. Okay takes place in the world fantasy fantasy world. But it's modern day fantasy world with raccoon UNICORNS so yeah with with unicorns taking the place of raccoons and so all right. But I just I. I was just impressed. By the animation quality the UNICORNS were tripping over the trash cans in their efforts to get away and stuff like that. It was done how where the UNICORNS horse sized. Yeah Yeah Small Horse sized. Yeah Pony side. Thank you for the normal rooting around in the trash. That's not normal. Melina coincides normal Unicorn sizes the size of a horse. They might have been full horse. Maybe they're my little pony UNICORNS. I those are ponies. Stick on him. It was just. It was just a sad sight and Tony. Orlando's really well. I hope I hope Bloody Mary get you good. You didn't say the Boogeyman gets me that you now. What happens if the Boogeyman says Bloody Mary three times in the mirror so they have a baby baby and that's called the cocoon if a if a book bloody Mary very very much? Oh my God I'm not making up. The cocoon is real year. This is bullshit you're making a coup and he has a pet of the chicken pot Chipper all right. You know what I'm GonNa do this. I spell cuckoo right now. See you see you why L. Cuckoo Cuckoo Monster. The book God gave this it. Is it real. It looks like it's real all now. There's Coco is from like Cuba co-sponsor equivalent to the boogeyman unfounded equipped lend to the boogeyman. Yup pedia just have a standard So it's called the Kooyman has an article Mythical creature use metals French children and a good behavior we'll give me in as no specific appearance in conceptions vary drastically household and culture. Okay that's boogeyman and get get your cocoa also known as CUCO COCA COO CA cocoon or Kuku mythical goes monster equivalent the boogeyman command found in many Hispanic phone and Lusophone Countries Lusophone. Listen lusophones are ethno-linguistic people people group of peoples and nations across the world that speak the Portuguese language. Okay so is that stuff Sittard Iberian version of a a bug bare what's leading creature type of hobgoblins comparable to the P- how many different are just the You're now thank God you know. What's the rabbit hole? I'm going down a wicky rabbit hole magical. We could do this. Yes you could do this. We're GONNA do this but you know what this tells me is that people have not known about how the world really works for a long time and parents have always gotten to to a point where they just can't deal with this shit anymore a three a Boogeyman Kukuh bug bare attacker. Her is GonNa get you. Just get in the bed and go to sleep. That's what I've learned new letter you. Yeah I think I've heard if this one is that hurt distinct if it is a boogeyman equivalent. I'm going to be disappointed. How do you spell Ebola I don't know a movie of her. I think it's the Rona L. L. R. O. N. A. O. Yeah I typed La and it was the first suggestion real quick. Gets you by the water. Oh Being Ping woman again for she gets you. Yeah or the crew just saying that. Because you know it's going to it's GonNa get you go get got. Don't get don't get got by the ruler. Oral Story Represents Laura as a person legend goes goddess metaphor and symbol only. Thank God. Well you know I mean they get you like the rhythm gets you know they get you like you being got. Oh Okay and once. You've got what you've got you've been gotten rhythm is GonNa get you I I okay. Did I tell you that I was the survivor of a of a monkey got attacked by a boogeyman is there. You're gonNa tell me and you had to fight it off. Yeah it was called Pester Carl no oh ooh wow that. Is that one dark really quick. That's a boogeyman. You don't get your children with that's awesome so well back when you were telling your cat story. I'm sitting there going okay. WHO's cutting onions here? Yeah okay I got you know I mean I know. I've Donald Coffee if you think about it. The ultimate ultimate Boogeyman in Christianity is the devil. Yeah I had dreams of this. The bastard Shit not just the devil but of Jesus we were scale. Jesus you were taught to fear God to fear Jesus I feared the rapture. I had dreams of me being raptured in my parents left behind Viceroy Damn I had dreams about Flying Flying Scorpions. It would sting you for five months all sorts of things revelations nine fifteen. Yeah well that that's sort of puts the boogeyman in an and bloody mary to rest their their pikers. Compared to this will no but they are whatever you could possibly imagine. Yeah whatever else what could possibly imagine which is essentially nothing right. Nothing is nonspecific horror. Yeah it's also so the two things one for loan era. It's is said when her whales sound near She's actually far and when she sounds distant. She's he's actually very near. Fuck you come on. How does she get you? I don't care we no longer. Yeah Okay Great. Now I have to content on let me look at all the various versions of the Boogeyman Mermaid. Carry you down so the siren. I thought thought that was a different monster. Though the sirens sing and draw sailors into the rocks right which is the parents wedge the boats of telling telling their teenage son watch out. So that's all cosmos because she's hot doesn't mean she's good for you that somebody avenue that crosses Genoa Zia's we haven't email. Oh we have mailed. Don't we let us get to that me. We have one. Okay put up here say thank you for saving up from the Boogeyman done. Got Me for the last. Whatever ten minutes yeah we should rename the show rabbit hole and just go down? Wherever are things lead us and keep going off side tangents? That's my show you gotta you got it. Set Up to be guests appear on the show holistic. Every have my team you did did it in a cocoon pop up cuckoo Luna they took you drink the more likely you are to see the boogeyman all right. where's our. What's our listener mail? We got a An email from chuck. Hey Chat Chuck wants to. Yeah no what does God do for fun. Can An omnipotent being have fun. He's memorized every possible book. Play movie he. He knows the optimal strategy for every board game. He can't learn new skills since he has them all. He can't solve a difficult problems. Nothing is difficult. He knows he's right in any discussion or debate. He can't prove himself in any way he has. No physical needs to satisfy. He doesn't doesn't he face eternal boredom autumn. Oh Man He's only scratched the surface. So I think I have a solution to this once that which is If he he is maximally powerful than surely surely he can create bump bump them divine Tequila and get on drunk and therefore be unable to do half of the things listed things and erases own. Thinks so temporarily really no why not. Why can't create a rock show? Bega can't lift it. Drunk is a is a weakness and he can't have those does it doesn't say that it Max Powerful. You can make yourself week isn't it. The team flew too close to the sun and then realized you can have much more fun as an idiot then an omniscient being. And there's No God now because he made himself down the way I look at it. It's like Oh yeah no he's he he doesn't even think the God can't think because thinking is a process in the God doesn't have to wait for a process. The God doesn't have to deal with process. The thoughts are already there and it's like to God is basically a hello program. I mean if he's eternal then he we always knew every action that he takes and so he's just following a list of things he does them up. That's a matrix shit right. Yeah he doesn't have to think anything up because it was already there when he was created or he he was never or created. It's always been there. He's always known everything he's eased. He does is that. I'm trying to phrase it to get rid of as much you know. Aw temporal boundaries boundaries out of it as I can he knows everything he does already and already ads temporal boundary but he knows he knows everything so he's just following wrote. He's just doing what he knows he does. And it's it's horrible so can't even think I mean I understand the but if your maximum powerful God God can make himself into a human by birthing himself through virgin or whatever If that's something that doesn't did it happen. I I know that none of this happened. But don't reality. Shame me okay. So if he can do that then surely will one it. It created human. That half the time doesn't know God because he's praying to himself right then surely he could make himself a human. That doesn't know now. Everything like on a temporary basis and then gets drunk and or high or Trish on and he limited himself artificially you know I mean while. It's hard the list of things he does that he does. He can't do anything artificial because he's natural. Yeah it can't do anything spontaneous his there's no such thing as spontaneity in the existing well shore but if he is also everything and one but but then he's also already all the humans. Yes Oh Jesus is in special. Because we're all Jesus boom no no then if he is. Jesus I'm I'm sticking taking my drunk God's things though you know you're Nordic legends. At all is getting drunk. None does south of their degrees. They're sleeping with their sisters and having a good time right imma do an and Medusa Yup. I forgot wait. The No. She clashed the titans man. Oh Oh oh modern. That's just that's fan fiction that's not cannon so it doesn't excuse me Yeah Oh you what are you gonNa do haunt me. If you've stone with one look actually story class. Yeah Titans actually in the beginning the seeds of my atheism the nineteen hundred really the nineteen eighties movie. I was acceptable. The be seen by my parents and I did see it. And that was the first realization that there were other religions with other God alone mm stories sing and I pursued that vigorously because they were much cooler store. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah perseus. In the real story of perseus that was a nasty motherfucker and up the fina and she was cool elected fina. Yeah and it was it was an eye eye-opener that there was other. There was nothing different from this mythology than from this holy scripture other than the term and and naturally led that led to my skepticism that led to my atheism to today. Yeah strange that strange because when I was a little kid they played littlest angel at school right now and I looked at that and when oh it's awesome movie it's fiction and so I- understood okay. So is Santa Claus for adults. Okay cool the fact that it was a movie. You know helped cement. The fact that I didn't believe in any yeah for me. It was when I realized that this movie was based upon a series of stories that one time were a religion right and people believed they believed it and the seed that that. What's the difference between these stories and the ones that I'm hearing now? Those guys are way cooler a cooler. They actually knew what sacrifice was to get way more because I mean you look at Prometheus tied to the rocketing liver torn out yet gives he brought. I guess now having your liver torn out forever. That's a frequency sacrifice. You know getting a tour of health for three days and coming back act. That's that's bullshit. I mean if I were to come to you Jamie. You've and I said if I were to who torture and torture you and inflicts imaginable pain for a day and kill you and you've got to come back in two three days three days and you became the king of the universe. Would you accept that deal. If I believed that it was true. Yeah it's the deal of the century. I mean if you came back as a King of the universe would you be nice to me I would haunt you. That's to you a even that has soon as you're like. Yeah you do you know what I want to see this movie it would spoil the ending for everything. Okay within all die and stick to cocoon. Well run up man you know. What are we mean exists? We need to have like a fictional folklore bullshit trading game basically or storytelling. That's called Killer Hawk one. That's it's my youtube channel so there's that the killer Hawk one if is in Killa or killer Killa Killa Hawk Hawk one. Okay okay cool. Just I was just confused. I wasn't just repeating your brand new kilo. Hawk not kilo right in the same way. Hey I l o one one kilo. hockney yeah and Dennis years is is a main destroying his spirit. Animal here come up. I'm not destroying the spirit. Ones exhibit used to call Me Chicken Hawk when I was a little boy. Oh aw why. That's no good because you were afraid or Longmore Leghorn as guest because you took a very hard pro war stance it just eh got served snow because I was the mouthy little wind always in the chattering. Okay Dennis the menace. Okay Eh. What could choose? Chicken hardens it's a looney toon thing. Yeah it is I watched loony tunes. Oh was foghorn Langhorne. Yeah there's always being tormented by the Chicken Hawk. Yeah little really I forgot that that were chicken hawks buzzards Mama didn't told me. Oh boy they don't see those very often. The buzzer was like this real Italian ages. So I- evidently I remember looney Tunes Virgin for whatever forgotten all the cartoon racism at Ebay Ebay as Cho's vicious the era of reexamining cartoon race. And you know I'm GonNa say it right now Pepitas pugh was a fucking rapist as super molested. Did that poor French. Good yes wait. Oh that's right now. Father was from France. Man likes straight up Dan in French Paris France. Do you speak French. No apparently I used to as a tiny kid as a as a toddler he spoke French but no longer I can imagine a little dentist going. Aw Oh yeah oh well. When I visited I visited relatives in France I learned? Just how far are you can get with we man you can go so far with we were yes we were we. Yeah we we all well I imagine is the same draft saying you know Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. Your roommate you tune raise. Let's say he would go. Oh man you know and so and so. That was the thing they say a lot. Do they Law I love Got My I think that we can proceed to some Shit Shit. Internet apologize say this week more Catholic saving on so that was pretty thank. Thank you Actually need to. How can they ate on gays so question? Well how do you commemorate the seventy fifth anniversary of fighting back against the Nazi regime. You about Out How you're under attack from the gays. Obviously I'm because Hitler Oh yeah it's a distract from the fact that yeah you so. It's it's archbishop to Merrick Doc. Jed Rats. Well ski well like my mispronunciation is probably at that. To your listed you say in the mirror in the bathroom. The about Skis Zebra Ski. That's it's probably just a normal Polish last name. I I can't pronounce Shaheed delivered a sermon in which LGBTQ I plus people people enemies of the state. Wow Yeah. Because they're under siege so a quote Our land it voice for this person that I haven't thought of all my no. It's isn't it by the red flag which does not mean there is no one wants to control our so's hearts and minds he told in the medieval saint. Mary's basilica one of the most important churches for Polish people know exist. I moved the same spirit. Marxist not read he was quoted as saying by I Privacy Huber so according to him Poland no longer has to worry about Nazis because they've been defeated so sure now he's going to be his own little personal Hitler no no. He's a gay people. I don't think he says Gay People Hitler but like no he's Hitler. Well Ah yeah kind of but I mean it's he's he's Polish so roaming around that. That's what I'm talking about. The the the gays like Hitler spoke of the Jews. I mean that's true. Yeah Yeah I hesitate to call People Hitler now because this is going out on the Internet and that tends to undercut your point somewhat but I think the guy who invented the what was the what was what's the law the If you bring up the Nazis you lose the debate All the guy who came up with that law kind of soften the restrictions recently. No no he said It's Godwin Ray. Godwin Godwin's law is over time. The odds that on conversation on the Internet the odds that someone re rebels Hitler or the Nazis Yeah Approaches one right right out of one. So there was some push-back I go right there. Now by Evidently prominent atheist in Poland Robert the drone. There's an accent sent on the end so I don't know how to announce anything in this story WHO also happens speak gay and recently launched his own political party? I'm trying to counter the religious majority. I Make Oh good job Robert contacted show. If you WANNA hear about I know we have. There's a Polish version of the atheist experience that launched. Maybe they watch watch this if they do send him a message. Be Great the cool to talk about this talking to people but anyway Robert the drone I don't know what his voice sounds like so he gets one for me. We already had such people. Politicians who used similar words need into huge slaughters genocide. This is an incitement to crime to hatred. He told news website. He says it he sees it clearly very butch and you can tell Guy So He's right and it's the it's the point that you're making which you know. Wow Oh I didn't realize I was pressing fair. So yeah yeah he's pricing am and so. Yeah Yeah I mean so. Yeah so the. The Shit Internet the apologists say kind of tries to focus on the ship. The Internet apologists says rather than the responsible. So it's it's kind of tricky. Will that in where we're coming up on time but it's also it's that this is the same place where they burned copies of Harry Potter because it was real they were marked International. Wow Yeah you know. Watch out because there's a rainbow flag a rainbow pestilence. Well Well No. His words were plague. Like although it's possible that he was being in Polish. So this man I. I don't know that that's a Polish word God. I don't know it doesn't sound. You're talking to the bloody Mary expert. Trust me. That's not that doesn't make you flew in Polish. That's not how that's not how any it works wanted to letty. Mary is an American. Urban Legend. Are- Not England in poet. Oh Wow what I think. She's glow well bloody the Queen Mary. Urban Legend is drawing them in the Queen and then and she kills you because you're not Catholic or something which is going to come get you no matter what what if you're Catholic. She was Catholic. That was she killed healthy because she's so Queen Mary. I'm a fuck. I'M GONNA have flipped Catholic and process. She was the yes. He was a Catholic. One and Elizabeth was was Sorry to everyone that fought in those religious wars. If gotten your religion entirely wrong. They're interchangeable to me because So she she was called Mary. I'm thinking you know. But the actual human that existed right the thing the part of this. That's real Because she was the religious okay. England is a country and as part of the United Kingdom And Its history has periods of time where Protestants killed Catholics and Catholics killed. Protestants Most just recently very recently most prominently recently in the nineteen seventies One of those periods of time we had Queen Mary. We had creamery. There was this queen and her. The name was Mary and she killed a bunch of people. At least that's what she's known for. I think it actually wasn't that many. But it was like she was executing people and it was bloody or something so they called her bloody Mary as a as a queen. I'd forgotten that because he distracted me with your boogeyman Lorenzo. Cocoon Mary Mirror. Or whatever a handy enemy your candy. Anyway Mary Cuckoo. I have no idea where the drink is called Bloody Mary but In any case Ah Dennis I think it's about time for you to take us all home. Is it my time. I believe the rice come for us to say well. So what did you think he asked. Okay it wasn't as bad as I thought. She admitted he smiled. It wasn't great. She added with a smirk but it wasn't bad he snorted was at least good enough to do it again in two weeks on the twenty first of August. Don't you mean on the seventeenth. She prodded. I was talking about the listeners. Sure you were