20 Episode results for "Mary Lou"

Mohr Stories 478:  Mary Lou Gamba

Mohr Stories With Jay Mohr

31:16 min | 1 year ago

Mohr Stories 478: Mary Lou Gamba

"Could you name on put your name on it in my mind that if you just run through somebody face <unk> people are going to be able to take that over and over and over over over over over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again it is not gonna won't then fuck face to worry about them. Mm-hmm <music> mary lou gumbo comedian in bellevue washington. I think is now defunct as far live close. Uh it's close alive. The jamie was in town every weekend. You sell out really funny mary. Lou take care the person who maybe believes that the least cloud. I'm working good. You're freaking balls of steel. Feel circus freak volunteer yeah yeah. I'm a juggler juggle and go to dublin conventions around the country and then i volunteer circus for thirteen years actually have their logo tattooed on my leg is a good time to impact first of all juggling conventions yeah this three definition of convention festive all would be like <hes> like a convention oven a gathering yeah yeah convention where people go like a learning annex yeah my real estate tips juggling tipster there were there were sops talks shows yeah i am just picture gymnasium full of eight hundred sweaty smelly only people in balls clubs knives and tortoise flying through the air chainsaws yeah everything and the result yeah. There is a little workshops and how how would you when you realized love well. I think as twenty eight i started it started astern. Everything ladies start coming forty seven so i'm looking league bloomer in everything. I'll even comedy hold you. I'm fifty two. It'll be six years next month. You're way ahead of the curve. Thank you and i know like cigar questions. Many sponsors like new york has the most spots eighty three spots at night sometimes uh-huh or like l._a.'s heart if you're starting to comedy now it's like impossible. Yes i didn't get any. I have one gig tonight. I had to get last week. I'm but i tried to open mic there lottery and sit there watching three hours comedy not getting up but that's okay because comedy cassia so common quote because opened my exit pro. It's just got work so it's fun to meet people. You're the sweetest twenty eight. You realize you love love juggling now. Here's who i really started asking yeah. Okay huckabee like jackpot or destitute started dating guy biker gang going with us accomplished dating dated role playing after homan bridge maxine a juggling convention. I'm telling you all right so that'd be a bridge. I dated. He got roommates for douglas and i hated that i didn't jugglers i i hated them. They were annoying did noxious bars and they were just talk about judge. People were having games they did and i had nothing to contribute nineties. Let's talk about no one has the juggling doubling shop talk and then had a birthday party and came and there is is pretty girl that he taught to juggle. She picked it up right away and i got really jealous and i was giving us the bucket two hours athletic. So what's the most tennis ball so i well. It might take five. That's crazy. I can't have any more. I can do for now in practice anymore and i can do for clubs torches and nice and balancing ten. That's my favorite thing. There's a lot of jokes that well right so you open for a there's a comedy. That's gone on juggling. I literally found out right before we went to air as i wo- so it's up about that on here i hated jugglers race. No just i hated. I hated those guys. I hated jugglers. I did but i have one tattooed on my life. How can't either take the bottom. Don't pull a hoping getting. She's juggling garlic a torch torch daisy. The garlic is usa yeah because i love and you got don't worry about it. Audio only remarried a gunboat world logo circus contraption that i worked for years took a long time that black abbas so why did you stop doing something all the time sunday law because i got i actually had i had a day job is every part of your life catalogue basically yes because you virgin black the legs this all this is from the circus and this is from comedy how fun and this is my parents on my tape not jackie. Oh yeah my mom was. That's it anyway. I don't know what was the question. Regression was whoa stop. I had a day job and i was really addicted. Juggling is doing like six eight hours a day and it was a lot of typing in my risk out five up and it didn't pay so i went went with piping. What is the most a juggler can make like you know like the upper upper upper like the gallagher. There's a couple of work skin like latest shows. I have no idea what the inbox probably could make. Maybe a draw solarte. What's middle class juggler like eight grand a year tehran pearson ron pearson. He makes good money. Deadening fastest ron pearson audience is com- comedy. There's the great at it and you got to keep your attention for like six hours eight hours so god juggle like way late in the show like whoa now we're awake. We're going to do right because they were real clients and peers. How many black georgia's church just like i oh i don't know i'm sure jobling conventions and you don't have to go something. I don't know if i've ever seen a black juggler now. There is one that i made my first big juggling convention interest in vegas team ninety five and the first thing he said to me was hi. I'm guy oh the mountain joy. He's a big holiday comedian to he's really funny. He lives in sacramento the guy oh respect it's great. So how many jugglers would you say you've seen in your life even like from across the way the convention center in which is so i went to several thousands of georgia a black juggler you so warm but you can't even cataloged ah having seen them is a matter. It's fascinating like no black people. I knew black hockey players in the n._h._l. Are black jugglers. I haven't done nothing matters onto festivals in las item. You're probably right. There was that many women either like i would want to the news place back now. Nothing i realize no. Do i remember you talking about juggling and being in the service a i don't everybody thinks i showed so maybe start because every time i wouldn't do it actually happened. I guess yeah i guess i'll work in and somehow when you worked at is relegated actual actual bearded lady at the service now no there wasn't a sideshow people. It was originally awesome late. They didn't use animals. They had a really great band and then i'm not <hes> i wanna beuys elephant with is shown wearing a leopard fur coats leopard did listen they just like komo being a couple million some guy with a chair and a whip guys hello sir tila circus by reducing kiki parts of their pretty pretty naughty. Her couple of accidents are pretty sexual. What's naughty sexual active. I'm circus circus okay well. If there's no one of the ad in the sexual so all right the axes low thank you know unless they had a job over the sexual stuff i came into the details the act but they were <hes> there was like a little cafe scene and <music> the table so the gals would lie on their back with their legs and the bottom of the table had like a sex toy and then they put it. It's the gal and they were like they held the table up with their hooves regina muscles and they put like the nature of the table inside the women just one like like like the surface of the table like one leg just the money one leg program manager with the four ladies in this yeah. I've seen some light balance stuff out of their dina spinning stuff and ship now. What if i bring my sons to the circus soon we have a secret is defunct. It's not particularly glenda's anymore. That's all they did. There was some really a lot of talent singing bringing talent. Come on the table mayors yet yet been been practicing a while your mouth and you need to shit of the joke. So what was the first place you ever did this to end up like that's start at forty eight. You gotta have brass off in forty seven okay well. Here's the real. I did start okay. I took a comic class probably gonna forty one a friend of mine to the classes suggests we need people to come to the show sport so i went and i support her and then i need friends with the teacher and that i thought it'd be tried this class. I took it three times over like six years and i would do one of my year and i would chicken out terrifying a huge visiting it and i i did one and then like and then six months ago founders of mike that was just really the gals release. We should just kept near. I just need a little nurture. She just kept going. You're flying combat comeback and every reaching running back and that's what i did i would take a whole week to read mill three minutes and then we'll go back and then i started doing other mike and now a member where so that was officially call my start date six years ago because that's when i started grinding do know it's interesting because they give you the only comedian that listen to reason by not going back because when you're onstage it's like this is awful. This is all we all get on stage like all those terrible. When can i do this again but the only person actually could. I actually listen to logic that was awful. You know yeah. You're buying like something about it. You like it was like a new year's resolution. I'm gonna all right. I'm going to do it this year and where to start and i go in january up once like when people go to a gym and a comeback and we're ginger close uh-huh ginger closed is made on the day and the doors locked walked jugglers. You've been in one of ten <music> our there's probably more available all things but you went back. Buddy hackett said to me once dingo by out that way point one percent of your actual talent being used used somebody said why don't you come back. I went on stage. It was an abject disaster. I'm assuming back killed older like i'm dumb give because it was a comedy cost and all my friends came to support the final night. So why do you think you can go back to that. That's very supportive of nurture. I no no i was really terrified us pure of success now. I think it was more. I really like i'm pretty social right and so at first that's when i started going nobody would talk to me and it was really hard and i just need. I just need like a little encouragement or like little like hey acknowledgement and people in august and then once people start doing that. It felt a little better and now i just like trying to be really nice because it really sucks to walk into a room and no one's talking to you. It's just hard so weird. I don't know why happens like i was thinking about recording today up my son off cam and i realize it's not the norm. I don't think to me an opener and mike just be friends right away and just stay friends. I don't think that's a regular thing. Ariz has just a couple of guys that do it but it's like. I don't know any other way that possibly could sustain my success like my inside inside happiness without like me you. Although there was another kid on the show i forget his name but yeah he's really funny jack all he was really funny landscape zero. I love him all in that green room and it was just what i need. You guys to get out of my get out because i like yeah. I actually not talks awesome. I can't say i can't say i can't leave. Delivers kick people out for lack of a better expression is i'm incapable of not talking. If anybody else is in my mind i would not stop. I'm a fucking dog with it should took like corey gets kicked out of my dressing room on t._v. Shows so stupid. Movie quotes yeah chatting. I but it's right. It's a mania at any connection like yeah no about needing urgent because insatiable allow i had like that. I make myself sick and like everybody's. Everybody's got to get out not liking me pain. I really like direct to get out on my seriously shouldn't go. It's totally cool. So did you camp as a kid because i dropped my son up at this fucking nuts can't did you go to camp corn cam. I never yeah yeah. That's kind of what i will. They could take care about you now. It's different now. They like really karen they'd holler at. It's all about the kids what it was like at my grammar school kick ball park next to the school it'd be like board board games and some kick think my middle school during the summer we'd go and hang out for shares but it wasn't like an official. Go away camp. People grownups right under on this is what we're reading on fitness pay. He's eight years old. It's the palestinians between santa monica pierre malibu's all pitch. Let's check is up using my son. He's beautiful defensive tackle. The name of the dream in departed already drop-off this morning playing soccer on the beach would goal set up either side so it was like five soccer was a grown-up each eighteen kids. There are uneven parallel bars. There are rains like the olympic gymnasts stuff right there scrambling where you go through pads into a giant like ballpit filled foam. There is get it where your job. I don't think that would you jump off the trampoline room plows through like pads fun them while over to land into the soup which which is like the whole thing of foam like a big ball of home and that's like ten feet high uh-huh oh by the way the fucking ocean take aways tennis fall into the ocean because whenever they want the paddle boards were just buddies and they just go into through the ocean and swim and there's dolphins thirty feet from my son mike. This is if this was five thousand dollars in two weeks. I don't know anybody that afforded turned down for you. Bring him from like new jersey pennsylvania north carolina and coughed kinship kinship to roll up the kid ratio. There's just and the lady down to the beach has a mike legal bingo. Okay we're playing volleyball next to the soccer and with no art i had no idea nonstop like mc since this if it was five thousand fitness by the seattle get a penny a free day of camp. Hey maybe it but i'm telling you look it up fitness by the seat. The website schlichter is just talking about a circus it the there is the every day or for how long from nine morning to three in the afternoon every day he comes home home resilient liners. The muslim gets round down like i got this redskins irish. Sorry mom talking about my skin. What my mom was fifteen. She was let me see ran right but let me see your hands with reissues. You ferguson hands my father's. Your father has such fad popping injured ready. The rice paper stretched over baggy brands like color and stanford. That's handling my hand like next his end like fucking faggot lands. No she's saying i had nice. I called mr moore fang <music> now and he's like any sounds like my household family not just one brother one sister. It must be seen brothers and sisters good guard members. She's well. She's gone yeah blow jobs in the city. She's dead now. Your mum's mum must've the hamstring stopping that job lake in president sounds like well anyway. Agenda had a drawstring so you never wanted camp good now. I it was fun in the summer time alone living south florida. We had a pool every morning pool so florida fort lauderdale group. They're lordy audie. We call for liquor down the locals. How could there w that's what he's a lawyer. The border south damn boy jersey. My parents are from outside johnny the juice. That's a big water tower in thomas edison bridge trust me is is little. I trust you m. a. r. i o. Maria mario marietta. I always in mirror mareo. I believe my mom would say mareo mario. God bless you present tense. What what's the scariest thing you've seen it open mic because we did last comic standing. There was a guy dressed banana on the banana trying to get on last comic standing. She even contested you like we're the show you've created last night before new. You know shit. They actually show sarda. Wow maybe i'm a baby comic yeah. I'm a new comic. I tell people because they look at me and they're like oh. You're old say you must be doing it for thirty years and i want them to get the thirty or veterans veterans day you waiting for good. I think here in the in the like no matter. How long have you been doing it so it'd be jugglers at open mics and been like hey now now i used to be you said that weird by or on anybody but jugglers they're certainly be. They've already distinct so but i don't know i don't know maybe just sweeter arms. Not maybe drawn and got a good keeps you eligible for now this alert ready yelich. When you have close nude. Keep your arms are you can't really it juggling cock relic why can't women have or simulate a guy masturbating and alex wayne priming. I've seen him say pretty much everything. I'm a little shop. When everyone goes like what do you do. Stay home and jerk off either the rolling dice or the over the shoulder that it makes a big l shaped like what are you all over your right shoulder career right nipple <unk>. We see them do correctly on t._v. Somebody other strip hotel. I wake up next to a wall pena's jack. No nobody's answer for that. I don't think i've ever seen that too man okay. I'm officially a little embarrassed. Do you think it was console made for each person on us. I think there's a lot of red too easily. You touch one yeh kind of soulmates yeah what ones that make sure funding inside. I mean that's how there's tons of their soul. The soul mate kind. Would you rather me your great grandparents or your great great grandchildren. I took a long time. I liked that you thought about examined for your answer. The reason i answered like that i don't want kids. I never had kids so does that. Make sense. We'll be better grandkids. Could you fucked. They come from that straight. Somebody had been a different uterus than mine. Uh-huh and you guys are a little squatters together because i never kids never kids so engineer. Your great great grandkids weird yeah. We stopped going kids. I know no no you gotta die trying to shut out. I hope they're polite. The sweet gonna show but my way of knowing oh anybody they say hi to me. I killed well. No it's forty minutes mm-hmm instead at all we can talk about this is the line for what what is to push it in that category. Mary lou gama socials like which is what your twitter your instagram. Twitter is the luth t. h. E. l. u. s. e. why because it was a nickname the next word my coming miss loofah. I don't know why and i thought my soulmate blue with my instagram with mary dot com on my my gumbo b._a. And my youtube is says gama comedy and i have a funny video on there. I want you guys to watch. I watch the video funny thought more than funny youtube channels what mary lou gama comedy. That's this gmbh comedy sketch because there's one hundred people like now. They're typing in right now at work like right now. There's another hundred i'm telling you what about the sketch was. What could access your 'cause. I know you've played it for the last. It's pretty it's pretty it's it's like a right down the middle east sexually right but i was completely took by the nuance and real could subtle acting you're acting that was like my second time interacting. I mean we're doing it did you kill oscar wasn't in editing where you saw it or did you ever feel i felt like the one seen in the beginning. I was killing killing it felt very natural and then throughout i was like i feel flap at the director. Cut it together really well. Because i was feeling like i was like what cause because there's a tension between you and again and i couldn't figure out like if it was sexual tension one-sided going and then the joke unfolds yourself wakes up but like i watched that use the first thing hated each other and i'm like this is really hard to not as a comedian place what the tension in is. That's the most fascinating wanna call them that. You like to watch it. I didn't get back. Hey seeming it. She's dead now. Brag mcgovern is dead but see why should own aw that is my number one defense before he goes yeah. Your mother she dead to take people's was legs out your son the other day my son died. Its way to kill a correction. Spread it around you. Call me recently. I know comedians and comedy festival in boston with all these women and uber and they're all just going nuts and flirting even with the driver and i and i mentioned and they're like wait. Kill the download my just get you laid all because by the way the juggler. I don't know why i brought that up for some reason. I was at the front alls i ever. Let's see let me tell you. I don't know why more girls would he get laid by saying by the way when juggler balancing my <music> juggling very specific motion and repetition her it's never really you. The lady was like i'm a massage therapist. Okay damage five u._s. Masseuse octopus to keep up with you. That's very funny and my second heroine. Eh juggle check on the youtube channel. Mary gama gumbo comedy gamba combat gumbo which middle manto originally my name's mary louise maryland you're adorable newark. You're exact you comedy in twenty five years. Nobody really al-sheikh now. She's not as funny. I like. You're just getting your buck in skull because if nurtured what you need i'm going to keep this podcast but we should talk about having fun and let me know like yakima working like i see you have put your name on it. Yeah <music> back into your pursued with jason <music>.

mary lou mike youtube soccer ron pearson georgia new york twitter bellevue washington huckabee dublin homan bridge Buddy hackett redskins l._a. boston tennis douglas Mary gama
HEAVY MEDALS Part 2: American Hustle

30 For 30 Podcasts

43:55 min | 1 year ago

HEAVY MEDALS Part 2: American Hustle

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HD video doorbells, indoor and outdoor cameras, smart lights, smart locks, smart thermostats fled sensors and fire and carbon monoxide detectors that are connected to twenty four seven monitoring controlled by the sound of your voice or the at APP. Learn more at Adt. Dot Com slash podcast. Those first months in America fellow worked as a cleanup man, and on the docks in Long Beach, California learning English by watching Sesame Street, and by discussing with his wife after a day's work, what his foreman had been yelling at him and I said. A bitch. She's I. Don't. What does it mean is I don't know? The dictionary! So I can look it up and Sun Sun. Enough somebody that's fine. In bitch. Female Dog. Said what I found. So son of the fennel dog. That's got to be a poppy. They love us very very into learning, and he gets some works on the Casino and we listened to the radio. Watch TV and they spoke. In English the Martha Martha English was. They wasn't. Much better about US better than us. This is episode to. American hustle. As Bella has always told it after defecting from Romania, he and Marta stayed in a seven dollar, a night motel in a CD part of Los Angeles. He worked at a restaurant cleaning up at night, and as doc hand unloading cargo for cash. My immediate goal was to get Becky my profession. Rather than cleaning mortar restaurants and doing dock work in the harbor, but gaze oppose our friend and choreographer, who defected with them, remembers those months and California much differently. Instead of a seedy motel, he says they stayed I in a suite at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel on Rodeo. Drive And then in a guest house on the sprawling grounds of a friend's fancy L. A. Area home. Geza knows because he stayed there, too. We had swimming pool at the Horse is at these court. Jogging Going on with the war. The friend they stayed with confirmed gazes account. He doesn't want to go on the record and dispute Bella publicly. But. He said Bela Karolyi was not working at the docks or washing dishes to pay for seven dollar a night motel room. Living rather comfortably off the generosity of a friend. But Bella understood the power of the public persona he was building, and the appeal of a rags to riches story in the United States, a country of immigrants. The story begins in the foothills of Transylvania in a small coal mining village isolated on the side of the mouth. Bellcore only was a thinker and doer. But most importantly, I man with Visu. Visual fashioning little girls into champions. Mike Jackie who had closely observed the Romanian coaches on that Nadia eighty-one tour was now the president of the US Gymnastics Federation. He watched as the Corolla tried to adjust to their new reality. They thought they were GONNA. Come here in coach a kid. You know like to comment I want I'm going to coach in Olympia. And they realized that they had coach lots and lots and lots of kids in order to pay the bills. They're walking into this world of private. Scattered across a huge country with a handful at the top that were fiercely competing for both athletes and for coaching stature. My reporting partner Bonnie is a longtime Olympics writer. And this farm system so to speak. was overseen by the US Gymnastics Federation, which is a nonprofit national governing body. That's very dysfunctional and at that point really struggling financially. There was no government involvement in sport here in the United States, and so there was no one to appoint Bella anything and no one who is going to bring him elite athletes. He do it on his own. Luckily, the Corollas had a pretty decent calling card. They were not as coaches. That alone prompted a Houston Jim owner to hire them. Bela and Marta recruited in nineteen eighty one junior national champion Diane Durham to be their first elite gymnast. Now, they were officially on their way. They went on the road to scout other promising athletes like eight year old shelley stack from Philadelphia. I remember do my back handspring from the very first time in that little tryout scared. The living daylights out of me, but I did it. There was one spot left on his first original a team of eighteen. And I made the team. That was the beginning of my coaching career here in the states That was the time when I got finally Becky my profession. The, Karoly set down roots in Houston Texas where they were reunited with their daughter Andrea. And less than two years after defecting Bela and Marta were able to buy the gym where they were working and hire their own coaching. I felt like this should be a great opportunity for me to learn. From the Best Steve Nuno was a twenty five year old coach based in Boston when Bella offered him a job. You know I remember waking up the second night. I was at their house to this. Look at the clock and it's like three thirty in the morning. What is that? Look out the door, a bellas sweeping his driveway and I realize right off the bat. That guy was just a workaholic, just a workaholic. He just loved being free to do whatever he wanted to I. Don't think he was able to do a lot of things where he came from. I don't think you'd probably was allowed to sweep as traveling through Thursday morning. He was doing it just because he could. You just think about doing the freedom. Live defense. The social life. And probably the most important it professional opportunities, but this country offers you can do what you freely in deeply. You feel you. WanNa do he did. Love being. Free you know. You could just tell he liked driving. He liked doing everything about he liked cleaning the bathrooms at the gym. As soon as we got the gym, he was in the bathroom, cleaning the bathrooms vacuuming and he never sat down. Inevitably never sat down a single time. And then we're practice started. He was on it. Hands on get making sure he was right in their spot in everybody doing all this and I was A. Worn out watching him. The athletes in a free environment. Well, you know that was one of the things that I heard so much there before I came he and immediately or Apple Mile. I won't Oh. Gosh I heard so many bad news holiday I made. It gets spoi- out. They don't want number war how they want to do everything in the word, and they are not consistent in one direction. That's not. That's not true. That's a lie. Literally every day we did the exact same thing they did morning workouts. Allah would show up in the morning early morning. Workout six thirty. Had to be on your toes ready to go always start with conditioning. Inc Vault. Go to bars was a lot of repetitions of things. I mean how many cartwheel's can you doing? Warm up that it? Can we get to the big stuff? Let the kids make sure they have the energy to do those others. Just you know once they have it. They have it. You've got five two and a half twists vaults. Got You. Know don't need to do anymore. You only have to one at the me. Bella Corollas program involved a demanding physical regimen, relentless pressure and an intensely competitive atmosphere. There was always a pyramid. Everyone had a place. There was the winner. Then maybe the Queen Bee and everybody else was kind of like a little pond to help. Push to make that one person successful, because not everybody can win. There's only one winner the one thing. The Bella was known for is a master motivator? I mean he could make your shoes dance a without unm. But he was also a Master de Motivator. He could also tear out your soul and destroy you as a as a person, so you don't WanNa dance. And though I saw both sides. One afternoon promising young gymnasts was struggling with a tumbling path, and he just didn't understand it just was. Blaming are not being able to do it it. He picks up this piece of foam. Out of the Pitney goes. This piece of foam has more life in it than you. And two days later, she was gone. She didn't even want to do it anymore. And I went okay. That's gotTa stop. And I had to explain that them from a business standpoint that was a thousand dollar a month decision to keep his Jim Open Bella needed paying customers, which was something Steve appreciated more than Bella did told them a little bit about business. taught him a little bit about the American system. I only want trained world champions. Twenty told me and I said well. then. There's only going to be six kids in this gym. These kids did it for fun. They weren't selected and put into a program. Steve ended up parting ways with the corollas after less than a year I left because when they came and said they couldn't afford to pay me no matter what growing pains they'd had in their first couple of years. Bela and Marta were determined to repeat their success here in America to prove Nadia was not a fluke. Mary Lou Retton was fourteen years old when ballot Karoly met her in Reno Nevada in nineteen, eighty two. Just four feet, nine inches tall. She was a sturdy powerful athlete with clear Olympic Potential Just allowed cat. I would make nine point nine on the vault, but I'd fall five times off of the beam very inconsistent. I just need better coaching Mary Lou had a coach who she'd been training with in her hometown of Fairmont West Virginia since she was seven years old. teed helped her get to the elite level of gymnastics. But at that meet and Reno when Bella I introduced himself to the star in the making. For coach wasn't there. A coach would not normally go up to an athlete. Say Hey, you know you should move in and train with me because I'll do a better job, totally unethical, the eyes of the gymnastics. He came up to me. I mean smack DAB in the middle of it. Tapped me on shoulder turned around. You know of course I looked up. Such a big man and I was in complete on this was the man coached Nadia. You know my role, my inspiration, and of course the new who was? He was the king of to nastily. He was talking to me. You know completed on way and he said to me in his deep Romandie Anoxia. Sit Muddy Lobe, you come. Die Make your. That's all it took. In the space of a single weekend, Mary Lou and her parents decided she would relocate to Houston, and train with the Corolla. Nobody ever ever Judas Death to. Oppose bill like. Oppose are was used to being gymnasts in Romania terrified by Bella, he'd never seen a gymnast. Treat him like a buddy. You know. Like. Mates. tobacco. Coaching and Gymnasts. Maybe personality was. Honest Open bobbly, bobby, and it always ready job ready four as smile. Majuro some bad words in Gedeon and very Bela Autry funnel. Speaks to Zach sent. Betas Betas very shrewdly is his gotree quickly. Personalities Approach is in threat to impose on her. Assistant that is. Sure away. ooh, legal. Bills a lot different sound effects. Just a regular normal person would come in and thank you with crazy, but it wasn't all jokes. Mary Lou was working hard. Bella needed to take me to the next level, and that was that fire level that it doesn't matter. There's no mountains you can't climb level. Mary Lou had an Olympic goal. In the Karol he's had an Olympic goal. Just equality about ballot when he would look at you in the in the is you know you're the eighth hour? Forget your so sore. You're tired. You're mentally drained. You're thinking about going home and eat dinner getting in bed. Bella wants to play lympics. Now's the time let's do it. You know you to be perfect would pull that every last inch of you. Energy and of motivation in anything that you had left, and as the nineteen eighty four summer games got closer. It was clear. Their hard work was paying off especially on the Balance Beam. Am I beam has gotten so much better, and that's due to Marta Karoly. She'd really doesn't get into the scene as much, but she helped me so much on beam. It's incredible. All of a sudden. She was rock. Not only stayed on. The beam looked comfortable up there. A. Sixteen year old Mary Lou. Retton is barely four feet ten inches tall. But she is a powerhouse on the vault this year in competition, no one has beaten her and by everyone's estimation. She's favored to win a gold in Los Angeles maybe two goals Los Angeles was the first US city to host a summer Olympic Games in fifty two years. That put the heat on American athletes to shine at home. Bela and Marta felt the pressure in a very personal way. The Soviet Union and most of the eastern bloc countries were boycotting, making the corollas former Romanian athletes the gold medal favorites. Restaurants Star. Katharina Zaba who had trained with the Corollas in data. That in a seven was one of the best. Eunice besides an idea what I had on that my the coating the Karalis needed Mary Lou their new star to outshine their former star. No American woman had ever won an individual medal in gymnastics at the Olympics I believe I can provide the Olympic gold medal for this country that's going to be a great satisfaction, and and just an expression migrants to this society and these these Kanti. Bello wasn't a part of the official. US coaching staff, but he wrangled a credential from an equipment sponsor, so he could be on the sideline during the competition. We have a microphone on delayed eroding. You'll be commenting on this legs. As expected Romania took the team gold. But the US one silver, the country's first Olympic team medal since nineteen forty eight. Explains all those sure. All! What! took. Mary Lou qualified easily for the individual all around, and the spotlight shifted to the matchup between her and Zaba the good competition between Mary Lou Retton and A CATHARINA Zabul of Romania. On. Heading into the final rotation of the individual, all around Mary Lou trailed Zaba fifteen hundreds of a point I knew that I needed a nine point nine five two ties. I'll go for the gold or tend to win. Mary Lou had two shots at her vault. Her first vault was a full twisting layout Sukahara a skill. She'd honed in the Corollas Jim I hope she has her wings on today for this Mary. Lou saluted the judges and started sprinting down the runway. She was running toward the faulting course. Phasing of an incredible impulse on the horse, and who has a little brother, was flying the perfect on the landing. Her feet drove into the mat like a spike. In one motion she lifted herself upright, threw her arms and head back in triumph appeal to walk and sticking that landing. Sister! Mellow climbed over the barrier and Mary. Lou jumped into his arm. Her celebration became their celebration forever fused. That bear hug instantly endeared him to the public. corroding. Crowd is on their feet a moment for American gymnastics. Ten the pool! Berry. Oh Party Fairmont. What does it feel like to be the world champion, the best in the world and gymnastics. Oh my God. I can't express a feeling the long hard years of work and paid off and it's every bit of. It was worth it. Ladies and Gentlemen Mary, Lou, Retton? Everybody wanted to be like Mary Lou with that cute little for gold, little dimpled face as a young coach and gym owner Rita Braun celebrated Mary lose rise to fame along with the rest of the country. She was spectacular. She was our little weeds girl. What's out? Big Buoyed Television newspaper Radio endorsements? That was the beginning. Before the nineteen eighty-four Olympic Mike. Jackie was president of a federation struggling to survive. After the eighty four Olympics. Watched his sport explode the one to celebrity punch of Mary Lou and Bella changed everything for gymnastics in America. There was a cultural shift in sport. Nationwide. It became winning money. Power Bellemare is part of it. They took advantage of it. They took advantage of it like other people didn't after the Olympic Game Hunger. That's some Honda of tiles They wanted to become another Lou. Huntington hundreds young shootin. They've been just frothing toward that you made zooms that you've been feud with young. The everybody was dreaming. Vote that one the maybe I'm going to be the next me. Bella cashed in on his new found fame as an American Indian maker. Proud to be a sponsor of Rela Crawley's elite gymnastics team. Well thanks all of you for showing us that marred work is still the spirit of America sponsorships sprung up. Enrollment skyrocketed. They look Karoly and his wife Martin have seen enrollments. At their gym on the North Side of you. Make that almost triple from six hundred gymnasts to sixteen hundred in the months following Mary Lewis Gold. The karoly had to expand their jam and hire additional coaches. There were traffic jams. Fans tried to get a glimpse of Mary Lou at the place where Olympic champions were made. These are the eight year olds at Bela's Jim, these little dynamos of raw energy that he shapes into strong graceful athletes. He calls them as little hopes. They'll let you got thousands of young girls right now that to be gymnasts. What can you say to them? How much is Mary Lou? retton style changed the style gymnastics. Will it hold in the future? After many Russians Romanians finally got the new American idol and I am so glad I'm so good for them. I, so so bad for these beautiful sport from now going GonNa. Hit thousand. If those than you read those. Coming up. Gymnasiums Tonia next. The media dubbed Bella and Martha's new crop of elite gymnasts Karoly. phoebe mills and Shelly Stack were part of this exclusive club. Every part of the package was put together in an idea of first class. You know your makeup was done. You had lipstick on you. Had your hair pin back perfectly? Little detail was taken care of that Leotard fit perfectly the warm fit. You always wore white socks. You had white shoes. You recognize that uniform. They're the white with the purple and the Blue Uniform Corolla gymnastics, and it may look though all the. You're wearing that uniform. Bill many of them. Are you locked in, and you're so prepared and confident that it was kind of intimidating for other people because. Curly's are hair. Yup, that's our chance for done. Marta was responsible for the very particular presentation of the Karolyi Girls. which she more or less modeled after herself, she always wore the same thing in the beginning. Always. Little white kids, white socks, black nylon, parachute pants and the solid teacher. She was always perfectly put together Bella was the face of the Operation Marta was behind the scenes running the business. Marta was the businesswoman Marta was the leader. She worked the front desk. She did the billing. She sold leotards and she coached beam. An event were phoebe Mills Excelled. They definitely had. Had their roles and they and they also I would say play off of each other a little bit, too like a fellow was in a really bad mood. Marta would tend to be in a good mood. Bela and Marta were building their stable of karoly girls and everyone was curious to see which of their young gymnasts would emerge as the country's next best hope. I was probably about four ten. Goals brace face short little red. Strawberry Blonde Dorothy Hamill haircuts Christina absolutely unbelievable, and you look like you enjoy I did. I. Just tell myself to go normal. Practice and that do it. Didn't you made everybody up here? Gleam. The Corolla saw tremendous potential in young Kristie, Phillips. And so did her mom. My mother was very overweight, very loud, very obnoxious and very proud of her daughter. Christie's mother. Terri sue spent her days at the Karoly Jim. She sewed Matt covers. She drove her daughter around in a van custom painted with a picture of Christy on the side. Christie was her job. Bella curly to this day loves my mother because my Mother did everything he asked her to do. All she did it Teddy? Sushi very good very good. Yeah I know. She came lynch she wants to. That heard just remember getting home and always like. Someone's. How got more turns than you on the Barstool? You gotta get out of that top box. You GotTa do this. You got to do that and. The. Intensity just never stopped everything about her life with scripted. Bela and Marta Karolyi were masters at what they did. And they knew the details that worked and different details worked for different kids. The Corollas shaped Christie's image right down to her dorothy hamill haircut and part of my persona was my hair, and it bounced with me and my floor routine and I was a very very showy performer. I don't ever think I was the most outstanding tumbler or the most outstanding bar worker never. But my ability to hit when it counted and my ability to perform. Captivating loops again with that classic powerful Mary Lou Retton Style. Credible that's a runoff onto the board, a back handspring onto the worst and a laid out full twisting BECO- Baltimore's. Difficult that you handled it perfectly. In Nineteen eighty-six Christie won her first big international competition. The American Cup. She then one every US competition. She entered that year. And the fourteen year old landed on the September cover of sports illustrated. This perfect picture with the crystal, blue eye, shadow, southern hair, the big smile of braces, the caption on the cover of sports illustrated, read the new Mary Lou. When I got this? Quote Unquote. Marylou was like wow, they think I can do this I. I want to win the Olympics. The expectation was I was going to win the golden eighty-eight. She's on the cover of sports illustrated. She's a superstar she. She was winning everything. In there, we had an issue. The took place in eighty seven. With Panam Games. The Pan Am Games are held once every four years in the year before the Olympics and they're an early indicator of who has a shot at making the US team. You said to me. What are the Chances Kristie Phillips Meeting on the eight Olympic team? Guaranteed a hundred percent, not a chance. You won't make the team Krisztian. Bella both had their sights set on the nineteen eighty eight summer Olympics. For years earlier, he'd given the US its first gold medal. This time around, he expected the USA Gymnastics Federation to reward him with the position of head coach Bela was not a guy that stood or at any respect for rules. Bella was if you won. The you ruled. So he felt like. That should be me I should be head coach, but the federation had a different plan. They named a neutral head coach. Someone who didn't coach any elite gymnasts. Melody did not take the news. Well, bellicose Smith he goes, this is ridiculous I. Don't like this I. Don't like this at all Mike. Jackie was the president of the US Gymnastics Federation, and he refused to give in to Bellas, demands so Bella decided to protest. He boycotted the Pan Am Games, leaving Kristie Phillips to compete without her famous coaches. Reminder that are coach Bela Karolyi and mortar poorly are not here this competition. He didn't go to prove a point that his kids could not perform without him. Without her motivator in chief Christie faltered I couldn't run down the runway in warmups. I couldn't get my steps right on vault, because I didn't have that little voice in my ear. Going body you can do you got. You can do it. Okay. Off Balance Beam twice this past week. You have to wonder how much Bella not being here affected her performance. She did a vault landed on her knees. And from that point on Christy started going downhill. Bella continued to protest and Christie continued to falter. Skip the world championships and Christie finished forty fifth overall. Her Olympic hopes were slipping away. Part of the reason I left Corollas in the beginning of the season nineteen, thousand, nine, hundred, Eighty, eight was just that I was depressed. I DIDN'T WANNA. Go to the gym fix months before the Olympic trials. Christie left Houston for southern California. She attended public high school in made friends on the weekends. They rode bikes on the beach. The move out to California. May Not have been the best for my gymnastics. It was the best for my soul, and it was the best thing for my mind and my heart. As a human being! And, then my body started developing like a normal human does at sixteen years old. However, not very good for the sports. But Christie's desire to fulfill that prophecy of being the new Mary. Lou still tugged at her I'm going to do this Olympics and I'm going to go for it I'm not going to be able to do it this way. In May of nineteen, Eighty, eight, just two months before the Olympic Trials Christie returned to Houston to finish what she had started with the Corollas. They put her on a strict diet. About five hundred calories a day. We're talking boiled eggs, tuna fish from hand and a salad and slice a toast here and they're like the intention was to help. Me Get this under control and again we're talking. One twelve versus ninety two. Twenty pounds. On a little frame. When she came back. To his. Sake the. Overweight out of shape dragging herself on the floor. Bella and Christie had worked hard to get her back in competition shape. But Bella wasn't counting on her as he once had. At one point, it was thought that Bella would give the United States. It's top gymnast in the name of Christie Phillips if she continues her comeback, he has given the United States. It's top gymnasts, but her name is phoebe mills. He showed up at the Olympic trials with a slate of talented gymnasts. Watching wildly wondering just how many of his gymnasts will make this? Olympic team is Bella caroling. Parades around the arena. He is really a media darling right now. It looks as though Bella. Parole will send three gymnasts on the main team have both the backup alternates the US Olympic team and that I think is a credit to Belen the way he teaches these athletes to concentrate. and to be so focused, and once again to practice so many repetitions, and we are waiting for the score for shelley stack. Fifteen years old. Seventy four pounds. In all five curly girls made the cut jelly stack, phoebe mills and Brandy Johnson all made the team. Rhonda Fan was named as an alternate. Member six. Is the cutoff seventh-place alternate in Seoul? eighth-place is an alternate. That remains back in the United States. Christie finished in eighth place. It was good enough to earn. A spot is the second alternate. But meant she wouldn't get to go to Seoul with the team. I don't even remember saying goodbye to them. I. Don't even remember them saying goodbye to me. That was crazy hard. It had been a challenging year for Christie without Bella on the sideline. In what had felt to her like the blink of an eye. She'd gone from Phoenix and Bellas it. To the girl, who didn't make it. But for Bella that year long protests had paid off. He had what he wanted. The title of US head coach. Four years earlier. He hadn't even been able to get a coaching credential. This time. He was heading to the Olympics the undeniable centerpiece of women's gymnastics in the US. Good evening and welcome to Seoul NBC's coverage of the Games of the twenty Fourth Olympia. The nineteen eighty eight summer games were the first time since nineteen seventy six that none of the top teams boycotted. The US would have to go up against gymnastics greatest powerhouse the Soviet Union. Let's start with three basic facts one the Soviet Union since they first entered Olympic competition in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, two. Their women have never never lost the team competition the US until eighty four had won only one women's gymnastic metal. That was way back in the forties. Even the Karoly realistic enough to know that team. USA was not on the same level as the eastern bloc. But the US team exceeded expectations. They were in bronze medal position after the first day of competition. Until a technical deduction from an East German judge, drop them into fourth place. In push the East German team into the bronze medal spot. And they knew what they were doing. Because it was the difference in Lebron's and fourth place, I believe this should not happen in the Olympic Games. Just a shame, Louis, dirty maneuver and Shame those. So, that was pretty disappointing for our whole team. Even phoebe mills bronze medal on the balance. Beam couldn't make up for the letdown of having a team medal within reach the men have it. Stripped away from us for this technical deduction you know spent. A very long amount of time and hours training, and we're still training so heart. For? The first generation of Post Mary Lou Karoly, girls. This was the end of the line. None of them had become the new Mary Lou. And not many gymnasts got a second chance at the Olympics. But it was different for the Corollas. They could set their sights on the future. And they were just getting started here in America On May First Nineteen eighty-nine. They were sworn in as US citizens. It's okay, it's feeling for me. I know I'm GonNa step on that floor. From now I said I'm eighty. Plus you get into outer designing interstates American. And nothing was a better representation of bell. Is American dream than his ranch. When he heads for his ranch on a rural highway north of Houston in his four-wheel-drive with Merle haggard on the dashboard, cassette deck, and a days collection of buds on the windshield. Well you'd swear you were writing with a born Texan. When Bella Corolla defected to the West? He defected to the West In Nineteen eighty-five, the Corollas purchased a fifty acre tract of land within the Sam Houston National Forest, a two hour drive north of Houston. On the property, he bought with his earnings as a private coach in the US. He plays his newly acquired role as a part-time redneck to they built including the name. He gave his prize bowl. That's Gorbachev. Them face. It was what Bella wanted. After emerging from the CLAUSTROPHOBIC lifestyle of communist Romania. Dollar wanted to be John Wayne. He wanted ranch and anyone wanted to have animals, so he created a place that he he loved. My all time hero Sonawane that he's the man of the law and of course I'd been less. These days. I can see those places where John Wayne the grades sheriff. decorate western hero was. leaving. When phoebe mills and Shelly Stack attended one of Bellas, earliest weekend training camps there. Most of the property was undeveloped. Then, we got down there and it was pretty rudimentary like he had a house. And had a couple of cabins that were built, and then that was sort of it. Does that free environment? There's a natural environment where they can feel without distress and disturbance of the big cities of the everyday life. Where there's no any disturbance, no phone calls no radio television ninety about the good trait, sturdy focus over the bus important thing good preparation. So we got up in the morning and ticker, we're going to go in that field and jog. said a second. There's cows in the field and Bulls and what we started jogging and he's on his four wheeler behind. Sort of like showing us, the path were allowed to ride four wheelers to go back and forth to our cabins. WHO GIVES TEENAGERS FOUR WHEELERS ON HERE? Make It to the gym morning, and I hurt my back because you're dealing via ups on a deck V, UPS. Where you're on your back, and you come up and touch your toes and is remembered. This is a really painful is not soft. It's do hard after that first fifty acre parcel. Karalis kept buying up more and more adjacent land until they had hundreds of acres and eventually for than two thousand. The ranch was always a work in progress. He built a house for us so that we could. We didn't have to stay in the cabins anymore. That didn't have a bathroom in it because we used to have to go in the mail of an I walked to the out Houseman, the cabins were reverse bill. He also had to make his rustic paradise more comfortable for his wife. One of the stipulations was that he built her perfect fancy bathroom then she would move after there. The ranch was Bellas. Pride and joy during those early camps he was like the reckless dad and let the girls shoot rifles and ride horses. Lombardo was there pair taker? She was our mom, so she torres. And she would always come out with strawberries and whipped cream. That was that was her way I think of showing. Here's your. You can have your little sugar. That was your dessert strawberries and went. And after the Seoul Olympics, valley began bringing his elite level athletes to the ranch more frequently. He converted an Old Barn into a gym. The and Marta started running summer camps for young gymnasts. The ranch became the cornerstone of their gymnastics empire. These days walking with Bela Karolyi on his ranch. You can almost feel him putting down roots in this of his American dream. But for Corolla the coach and his girls. It's paradise with a purpose. It was an unconventional place to train young athletes in a sport where injuries are common. So isolated so far from the nearest hospital and the rule from day one. No parents allowed inside the gym. But Bela Karolyi was unconventional. And most importantly, he was seen as the coach who knew what it took to make champion. Fellow Corolla has its critics as a success and he is living his dream. Come on the rage. Bad Guy who used to sweep floors for a living. You get the feeling that of Karoly had met John. Wayne the to would have had a lot to talk about. Fellow is indeed there will mean cowboy. You. Thirty for thirty podcasts are presented by Volvo. Safety is at the heart of every Volvo. The Volvo. XC SIXTY SUV is designed for safer trips, and for the road be available pilot assist helps keep you centered on long stretches, an active bending lights help you see around curves on winding roads wherever you go summer safely explore exclusive offers on the EXC- C. Sixty during the well though summer safely savings event visit Volvo, cars dot com slash us to learn more. Thirty for thirty podcasts are brought to you by audible. We're all fatigue from screens and listening is a great way to occupy the mind while giving the is a much needed break. With audible, you can do just that. From podcast, a guided wellness programs to comedy audible has what you need when you need it visit audible dot com slash thirty for thirty or text thirty for thirty, two, five, hundred, five hundred. That's audible dot com slash the number, thirty F, O, R, thirty or text, the number thirty, four, thirty to five, hundred, five hundred. Coming up on the next episode of heavy metals. Anti hold them. Not doing this, he'd be conductor of an orchestra. Bella. I said the show is the athletes I said. You're creating a monster Bella. Gurley was the king of elite gymnastics. Some people see him as a very ruthless coaches too tough on the kids. He was untouchable. Probably some emotional abuse many believe the curly set that standard, but nature's just perfected. Heavy metals was reported by me a Roenick and Bonnie Ford. Producers Andrew Mambo and Meredith Hod not. Senior producer Julia, lowry Henderson executive producers, libby geist and Aaron Liden. Mix, engineering and sound designed by Maitre Kubota League. Production Management and licensing Lewis Genus Cath Sankey and Jennifer Thorp. Production Assistance Riley. Bloom Gus Navarro Samantha Dot, and Trevor Gill. Original Music by Ian Costs. Executive producers for ESPN. Connor Shell Rob King and Allison overhauled. This podcast was developed by Jenna, Anthony and Adam Neuhaus with help from Jodi. Additional production support from Amy Van Dusen and evil. Our producer Juliana Brandon. John Master Beradino provided fact checking. Terry Langford did legal research. ESPN audio Tom. ricks Megan Judge pg on a Seaney and Ryan grant her. Special, thanks to Jenna. GENEVIEVE and Elaine Tang Julian Ben View and the production teams at ESPN LA AN ESPN NEW YORK. This season of thirty for thirty podcast. was produced in. Association with ESPN W.

Jim Open Bella Mary Lou US Olympics Marta Bela Mary Lou Retton Mary Lou Karoly Houston Bellas Bela Karolyi Christie Phillips Romania America US Gymnastics Federation phoebe mills Volvo Corollas Mike Jackie
Shaping the Future of Health Fueled by Nurses with Mary Lou Ackerman, VP of Innovation and Digital Health at SE Health

Outcomes Rocket

27:01 min | Last month

Shaping the Future of Health Fueled by Nurses with Mary Lou Ackerman, VP of Innovation and Digital Health at SE Health

"He comes rocket. Listeners saul marquez. Here i get what a phenomenal asset of podcast for your business. And also how frustrating. It is to navigate editing and production monetization and the roi. You're looking for technical busy. Work should stop you from getting your genius into the world though you should be able to build your brand easily with the professional podcasts. That gets attention of patched up. Podcast could ruin your business. Let us do the technical busy work behind the scenes while you share your genius. On the mike and take the industry stage visit smooth podcasting dot com to learn more. That's smooth podcasting dot com to learn more. Welcome back to the outcomes rocket. Everyone saul marquess. Today i have the privilege of hosting mary lou ackerman. She is the vice president of innovation and digital health at s e health. Today were doing part. One of twelve part series with regard to the role of the nurse in health care nurses leadership nurses and innovation and health care. This series is sponsored by sal. The society of nursing scientist innovator and leaders. They're just doing incredible things. And i'm so excited to kick off this series with mary lou. She is a founding member of john. Seattle and an active member of chief. That's canada's health informatics executive forum with digital health canada. Her background is extensive. She has led the development and implementation of many business travelers nation projects innovations and partnerships. Mary lou joined saint elizabeth in one thousand nine hundred eighty seven as a visiting nurse and she has her clinical background with a graduate business degree and significant experience with health informatics and technologies. Mary lou has a passion for community. Health care combined with the desire to advance care. Creating innovative service models supported by digital health technologies to create future that will provide a personalized accessible meaningful health experience for individuals their families and service providers that support them. It's going to be a fun and great conversation with mary lou and mary lou. Thank you so much for joining us. Today i'll thank you for for having always excited to share nursing stories and talk about innovation in healthcare. Thank you yeah. And so before we dive into the work that you're doing and your view on nurse. Leadership tucked us a little bit about what inspires your work in healthcare. There's so many so many reasons you know. Of course helping people to live their lives. Underpins the inspiration or energy. I get from working in healthcare that with the numerous opportunities that a career in healthcare offers as a nurse. I've enjoyed every opportunity from my early days as a front line nurse working with individuals and their families into leadership positions working with staff ensuring that they have what they need to provide. The best care possible went into Focus on health. Informatics know understanding what we need to do and the impact it has on patient experiences and now using all of those experiences and knowledge in my current role in innovation design testing solutions at service models to really help reshape the future of health. It's really hard not to be inspired as a nurse. Not only with all those opportunities but the impact that you can make on how people live their best lives through any one of those opportunities at. It's really meaningful work mary lou. And you've done so many things from bedside to executive it's fantastic to see that you've done what you've done and so as you focus on the work that s he health is doing the work that you're doing there. How would you say the organization is adding value to the healthcare ecosystem. Se health is well known. In canada's a leader in home and community also bringing excellence and innovation to seniors lifestyle family caregiving. Our mission is simply to bring hope and happiness and delivered to deliver holistic life care individuals for over a hundred years. We've been providing care in the place. People call their home you know. This could be their own hallmark senior living facilities in clinics in schools or even on the streets last year we impacted the lives of more than one hundred fifty thousand people who approximately seven million visits. This is a whole lot of opportunity to bring hope and happiness by inspiring these carry exchanges with individuals that are really meaningful and impactful in my raw had the privilege to work with nurses health system partners and technology companies who are looking for solutions to modernize the delivery of healthcare now it's with these partnerships that were able to design his service models enabled by the technology to augment clinical care and enhance those care experiences and ultimately changed the way individuals experience health. Mary lou it's I mean incredible right. And we're seeing a shift in health and health care to the home and you guys have been playing in the space for over one hundred years. I'm sure there are a lot of insights you can share to really add value to how many companies and even hospital systems are thinking about care in the home. So what would you say makes what you do different. And maybe even unique Than what's available today. I think you know one of the things that working in home care is. You're really grounded. In the way people live their lives. So i think it's the mindset and the desire and an organization. You know that inspires you to make sure that those experiences as meaningful as they can be so. Sc health has created a culture of innovation where people are at the forefront meaning. The expectation is always to do better. Seek out those opportunities to improve what is available today and to look beyond what is what is and look for what could be the purpose of making that user experience the best for people both internally and externally but most importantly i think it's important to surround yourself with good people. He bluer also inspired to disrupt our current health care system. You know for years. Innovators entrepreneurs and scientists organization like sale is a great way to network learn and share with key health system change makers their stories are so inspiring and their energy is just absolutely contagious when you get in with a group of them so i think that's what makes us different is. It's not really so much about what we do. But i think it's is is that mindset in it's the approach to focusing on what really matters or people yeah and i can feel it. You know mary. Lou like the way that you set it it feels and its that nurse touch. You know that you care and you want to be there and you just want people to have a great experience you said spread hope and happiness and i just love that and this is exactly. This is the nurse touch. But i think a lot of people who hear about our mission of spreading hope and happiness it just really resonates with external of the organization but most importantly with people internal to the organization. You can see what spreading hope and happiness looks like and feels like so work for ignoring is ation where you can really live. Their mission is a real privilege and provides great guidance. As you're deciding what you should be doing nog doing you know it's quite simple to look back and say okay. This is going to have an impact of positive impact. Is this going to give somebody hope as they're really challenging times in their lives is going to provide some happiness to them or to their families and then if it does doing the right thing i love it but north star doesn't get clear the matt and mary lou. What do you believe people need to know everybody listening today. What are they need to know that. Maybe they don't know about the role of nursing in improving health outcomes and business. I think you'd our health system is starving friend. Innovation are still struggling to axe the facts today. That being said why'd open for opportunity and a breeding ground for entrepreneurs looking to improve patient and healthcare providers experience. In parallel there's also been significant advancements in technology with the introduction of things like a machine learning wearables voice technology solutions. Were saying much better user interfaces along with greater value from its use it as we increase the adoption of digital health technologies at the same time. We're increasing our collection of health data allowing us to move from this sort of reactive healthcare system to one. That's personalized predictive allowing us to get head of the problems. Even before they happen. You know they're saying now. That medicine will advance more in the next ten years than it has in the past one hundred years. So how do we improve outcomes. Or what. Impact is nurses have on making healthcare. Better was really important that we work together. If digital health is expected to grow to this three hundred and eighty billion dollar an internationally in the next five years. This of course is dependent on the adoption of that technology by the intended users. And nurses are key to making this happen. They're the most trusted professionals. They make up more than fifty percents of the healthcare workforce and data what works and what doesn't work for patients and their families every digital health technology company should have nurses on their teams. I'd house we bring nurses to the table to design develop test and leave new service models that are supported by technology. No the digital health technology is then designed to fit into a new service model that oath augments clinical care and enhances the client experience. I think it's really important that with the nurses insight and really understanding their workflows and the decisions that they're trying to make during the day if they're not at the table to share those experience with technology companies who are designing solutions. Those critical pieces are missed. And what ends up happening. Is we end up trying to but these square pegs into round holes. We see that technology is just not adopted because it doesn't meet the needs or it adds versus augments work. That nurses do so. I think it's if we really want to see improved increase the adoption of technology and enhance asians and providers experiences. We can't do this without nurses at the table so well said mary. Lou and i agree with you wholeheartedly. The role of the nurse is critical. And i didn't know that the it was over. Fifty percent of the workforce in healthcare was nursing. Yeah mazing. so they really do. They don't health care. They also know how healthcare is provided and the impact that it has on patient experience ma. Yeah and you know. I'm floored by that number so super interesting. And so give us an example of when you saw your nursing team provided a great solution to a problem so into examples one where we were able to work very closely with the vendor on looking at adopting their product into our clinical workflows and the product was a tool that would allow nurses to assess a client's rain health to identify early signs of cognitive dysfunction. This particular tool was it was designed to identify early warning signs so signs that would we can't see today with the current technology that's being used for the current solutions that are being used to assess rain. How so the tablets tablet based tool and it had these games on it that the individual would work through and based on how they responded to the games like building puzzles and finding moving objects around those sorts of things it would identify any sort of signs of weakness in their cognitive function and it would also give the nurses feedback and that individual feedback on things they can do to strengthen those weaknesses within their brain health. So you alternate you would think that if you could identify earlier entreated earlier it was slow down progression of e dysfunction so on paper and in principle all wonderful. We weren't involved in the design process because the tool was already designed but we did do a pilot test with it with the number of nurses and clients and we were able to provide back to the vendor some really great feedback on what they need to do in order to have this via successful tool for use in the healthcare environment so we do a lot of act where we were a bit late to the table is we haven't been vaulted design We do think that there is optimism in the and value in the product or the half roadmap that this particular vendor is on as we provide them feedback so they can go back to the within their organization and develop a better product. That's one another ample is you know. Wound care is a significant problem in healthcare. And we haven't really done much to enhance how we deliver wound care services whether there's lots of companies out there now that are working on at using pictures new photography to better assess wounds measure wound healing provide clinical guidance or working with the company now and has described tool that does all that automates a lot of the clinical workflow so it saves the nurses time. She doesn't have to do wound measurements. she doesn't have to do as much clinical documentation. 'cause this the ai. Within this wound care application. A does a lot of that for her. It also advise if the healing trajectory is gone off its patents so it flags for the nurse said you know something needs to change and and can make recommendations says augmenting that An uncle decision making as well and was also really nice about this one. It for patients who have experienced chronic wounds. They're now actually able to see. Their wound progressions. Especially if they're wound has been in an area on their body that they they can't see they get bite engaged in the wound healing process. Now because they they're seeing the results of their compliance to their wound-care regime so working very closely with the vendor we have changed some the clinical workflow and they've changed some of their tooling so that it fits within that workflow so we're almost at a point now where we feel very comfortable and confident that this is a solution that is going to be the gonna work well so it works very well in the healthcare environment. It's almost like You know winning. On on all sides of the equation. I love it. It's phenomenal and you'd have a wealth of knowledge. I'm sure for the for the company that you and your team engaged. Both companies right the brain home company and the wound-care company. Yeah yeah think. That's big part of it is some working together to find the right solutions for people. Yeah and you know not everything works out so would be curious what you feel has been one of the biggest setbacks you've experienced and key learning For me my. I think by biggest setback was looking at opportunities. That didn't move forward as a setback or failure. No when you're really passionate about finding solutions and you're not successful failure can be your worst enemy. It's pretty discouraging at the same. Time is pretty humbling as well. So if you can flip your mindset and really look at these great look at these as great learning opportunities which they are. Your optimism is then re fueled and those learnings become invaluable. So ask yourself. are you really innovating. Everything you do is successful likely. Not but the true value comes from learning looking at those failures as learning opportunities so our failures have inspired us to do things differently through the development of an improved innovation methodology. So looking back at how we doing things. So our new methodology includes a number of define steps in each each of these steps is dependent on the one before. So for example. If you're not successful in steph one you don't move on to step two. You fail fast. You learn quickly. You hit rate on that solution or you move onto the next opportunity with this kind of methods much less time is spent on trying to be successful with fitting a square peg into a round hole versus. Just doing the right thing right. Yeah you know. I love your what you said mary lou that if you're succeeding at everything you're probably not pushing the envelope. You're probably not innovating because you're going to fail. And the things that we do are so personal and the best leaders are very invested emotionally and those failures come man. It's hard it is. It is really hard especially at the beginning. Innovation is very different than quality improvement and spent a bit of my time. My career doing quality improvement. Where you you have all the data and you're able to sort of. It's very predictable like if you know. These are doing wrong if we do these things they should. That should improve what we're doing but innovation is not so predictable. There's so many variables. And i think there's variables plus there's also this huge desire to want to make things work especially at the beginning when you first. I'm into working in the innovation. Space is so exciting. Everyone's so passionate. All entrepreneurs are so passionate about what they're doing that you want to be passionate with them and you really want to be successful. I probably spent the first year or more just trying trying trying to be successful versus recognizing that and pushing square peg into a round hole. And we're not going to be successful and less. We recognize our failures and learned from those and correct them. In order to move forward or just recognizing that this really isn't is not going to be successful so hopefully giving somebody the feedback or a group the feedback that you know the really are on the wrong path. And they need to do significant pivot in order to find. Success of they're looking for that for me was probably one of my biggest setbacks. Spent too much time wanting to be successful versus whining to learn from each experience. While said and i and i also really like the distinction. That you you made. Between innovation and quality improvement you could get quality improvement while innovating. But there's differences there and you know a good mentor of mine told me hey you know the more time you spend the more expertise you get. You're able to make distinctions and it's those types of distinctions like you just mentioned. That really helped move the needle so i i love it. I appreciate that example. Mary lou what would you say you're most excited about today. Although this past year has been really incredibly difficult for all of us the pandemic the advancement in innovation and its impact on healthcare. Delivery models has increased more in the past year than it has in my entire healthcare career. We've seen this explosion in the adoption of virtual care. New business models was flexible funding new partnerships open arms and collaboration across all sectors of the health system other words. There's just so so many of our historical barriers to transforming healthcare. Have come tumbling down this past year. Really our time is now to transform healthcare. You need to focus on our aging population. Who now more than ever want to remain in their own homes. We need to move from institutionalized care to health care anywhere anytime with the advancements in house analytics the possibilities for more personalized care models will help us move from you. Know what's the matter with you. Approach to what matters to you to helping. Individuals experienced there s lives and really engaging. Our healthcare workforce along the way making sure that their needs are recognized and were solving their problems with solutions. That really work for them. Yeah ads key and just keeping everybody inspired. That is providing the care too because it's burnout and a lot of people talk about physician burnout but you rarely hear about. I mean league as much right. You rarely hear about nurse. Burn out but it's a real thing. Oh it's a real thing for sure. And i think one thing i've also learned you know working with nurses as nurse. They're so busy and they don't have time for us to be getting it wrong all the time. If we don't engage them we're going to bring them solution. Said don't work for them and their tolerance of us. Doing that is low and it had to be low. They're focused on patient care so they're happy to help. They wanna be a part of these designing and developing these solutions. But if we don't do it we just bring them a solution at the wrong solution. You have about thirty seconds before they forget it it's to everybody's advantage and bring them into the the invasion lifecycles to bring them into developing the solutions if they are expected to be the ones to be using them and even if they're not even if if there's a solution that's going to impact a patient experience even though the nurse may not be the one to be using the solution. Her input would be invaluable. Amen i love it And such lou and everybody listening. It is so true. Have you involved a nurse or nurse team in the development of your solution. If the answer's yes kudos to you but if the answers now now's the time and maybe a tip here will be nice mary lou so like what's the best way. How do you suggest that folks listening that say. Oh my gosh. I haven't been doing this. How do they start while. There is connecting themselves with the the right. The right people's and the right group like on seattle has over four hundred nurses who are passionate about innovation if you needed to look external and find them internal within your organization let the frontline staff know what your what your strategies are where you're moving forward with as an organization listening to the nurses problems. What are the challenges. They're faced with everyday and then bring those nurses together and give them the opportunity to find to find those solutions to work on solutions. We can't transform the health system without nurses they are the hackers of what we call the supply closets. Macgyver is on the front line. They know the problems really need to bring them into creating those solutions and we we say often is moved the nurse from the end user to the front and influence her a at all said mary. So everyone just take action on this because it is certainly going to be something. That is mutually beneficial. Everybody's gonna win. Patients will win. Nurses will win and your company. Your organization will win mayor. This has been awesome. I've enjoyed our discussion the examples you've provided. Give us a closing thought. What should we be thinking about. And what's the best way for the listeners. To get engaged with you and learn more about se healthcare ice on my closing thought as you know. We can't transform the health system without without nurses in important that we stay focused on the problems. We're solving make sure we're solving the right problems. Not just building shiny objects. We need to build confidence within our healthcare system. Need to build a move from risk aversion to sorta this concept of intelligent risk taking and the only way we can really do that is really by taking a deep dive into those problems and understanding from those most knowledgeable in the healthcare system about asian experiences. Which would be the nurses in order to build meaningful solutions. So i think if you're looking to solve problems and create solutions as a nurse get involved. Raise your hand. Look for that network. Those people who are passionate just like you and that would be groups. Like santiago and participate in hackathon are great fun weekend activity where we bring santio organizes them a couple of them a year where we bring now the last one had five or six hundred nurses from out although it was virtual. Yeah they form. It's just amazing. What happens in forty eight hours to you. Know people just bringing forward problems that are interested in solving to by sunday pitching really meaningful solutions. One of them that stands out to me was and this was right before the pandemic on retro this company's doing but i imagine if they if they went forward with their idea they probably are doing quite well now nursing and handwashing is has always been our healthcare and hand. Washing has always been really important than more so through this past year so they had this idea one of the things you used to have to do when you're trained nursing. Was you had to wash your hands for a minute or certain length of time. What you did was. You always taught to put a song at sing. Happy birthday or something indian. How long it would take that. You'd have to wash your hands to know that they were clean but for a nurse. That was always a bit of a challenge. Because you've just left a patient. That was having a problem. You're heading into an excellent. So factor mind off and sing. A song just wasn't reasonable. You never stayed with the song so there was the. Have this soap that. Would you know when you started using. It was purple. And you knew when you were done. It was white. Oh wow so it was like so said changed. Ajay's colored light you know yet you're all clean can still keep your train of thought in healthcare. So it's those kinds of things that were out of just bringing people together and having discussions and talking about how to solve problems so yeah by the end of the weekend. There's these big problems that great solutions. And then you not all says want to be entrepreneurs but then there are some that do and they take those ideas and bring them to form business specifically like but even those like. I saved their scripts. Nurses want to be entrepreneurs but there's lots of room for nurses who want to innovate within their organizations as well they're designing aspic and it's stimulating. Right i mean you you you join one of these and you leave even if you don't want to be an entrepreneur you comeback to your organization with new ideas. Yeah so i'd say heff you you're a nurse and i peeked your interest in serve nursing and innovation. I would strongly suggest that the joints on sale they meet other nurses just like them and they work for an organization that inspires them to find solutions and enables them to follow their passion. Well i really appreciate today. mary lou. What you've done and sharing your message. You are certainly spreading hope and happiness. I'm glad you joined us today on this program and folks you could just go to Dot health type in san sale type in mary lou. You'll find the show notes to this. Podcast and in there will provide the links to s e cares s. h c dot com and then also provide the link to seattle. So you can learn more and get engaged mary lou. Thank you so much. This has been a lot of fun brain. Thank you and thanks again for having me. Hey everyone sal marquez here have you. Launched your podcast already discovered what a pain could be to keep up with editing production show notes transcripts and operations. What if you could turn over the keys to your podcast. Busy work while you do the fun stuff. Like expanding your network and taking the industry stage let us edit your first episode for free so you can experience the freedom visit smooth podcasting dot com to learn more that smooth podcasting dot com to learn more.

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Hour 1: Nick Caras, Michael Veitch

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

58:10 min | 2 years ago

Hour 1: Nick Caras, Michael Veitch

"Sirius X._M.. Ports presents with Steve Big raising and becoming interviews this stupid breeding dome biggest stories in the world of apperances with on Siriusxm very good Monday race Vance. Were I think experiencing a little little audio question as I'm not sure that the studios getting me Joe let me know if you can and we'll <hes> we'll see about yeah yeah. You're all right. I'm not getting much trevor return so we'll have to work on that so that <hes> when we bring on guests you can. I'll be able to hear him because I'm not. I'm not getting anything back. I very rarely can I heard just a little bit of the intro so all right here we go now good morning and we'll see about where we stand it a little bit and meanwhile let me talk a little bit about the difficult weekend specifically Saturday obviously and the Haskell I guess postponement delay you you saw it unfold and you could almost see it happening right from the get-go the the heat I uh it was it was tough. There's no doubt and when you listen to demonstration on Friday you sense what they were going to confront and they did it as as I guess they played the hand that was doubt and that included the governor being concerned and expressing concern and the delays to start the card and then the decision after the two races to scuttle everything except the six steaks and restarting at six o'clock and it was not optimal inconvenienced and obviously disappointed a lot of people that in a made the effort and the commitment to come out and be there so from Matt standpoint a a frustrating scenario at the to say the least and beyond that everything went off all right once they started putting horses in than the game and running the the stakes so I- what's the fallout. I don't know I don't know I there's been plenty discussed about how this was not a a concern years ago and now with with the acute focus and concerns about the animal welfare issues and you know a situation created for the entire industry by one organization. I it seems like this'll be a a ongoing concern too hot to run to coal to run to who knows I. It's a very difficult operating scenario overall up to me. I mean what were the what were the options. The options included postponing or cancelling moving the car to. I don't know Sunday was any better. They ended up canceling link Sunday. I think in part because people had been on hand Saturday all you know what from for those that arrive early have to stay till nine o'clock are beyond just inappropriate to me that that that's the the underlying story that have to be imposed on what is generally a the best day of the meet the biggest day of the meat for mammoth as the racing well the racing the racing did what had had to do it didn't disappoint and that included really a a hassle that we'll be memorable for all kinds of reasons including the backdrop. Obviously maximum security and Louis Zayas have to survive a inquiry and my view of it. I I didn't think for a second that maximum security needed to be disqualified and there's actually some interesting portions of of that discussion that really does have some postscript to it and that includes the difficult angle that you get on the turns like that where the head on's don't give you a clear picture but I can tell you one thing Nick Zito who joins Seth Merrin I yesterday on television Nick pointed out the the slightly unusual little sort of point that the rail has that has contributed. I think certainly contributed to the way in which king for a day didn't have as much room from one jump to another and let's let's be a johnny. I understand what Johnny Johnny said and I. What else is he gonNA say but king for a day was dropping anchor that that was evident? He was not going on with it. Frankly the the race came down to the two horses it was gonNA come down to in maximum security and Muccio Gustavo and maximum maximum security and I want to fold in war stories when with Zayas Sayas looks absolutely and War story in that monmouth earlier doesn't look like he's going to stay on and it doesn't look for a minute like like he's got a chance to hold off bow harbor and in fact he does and could also probably be worth noting that both horses were on the inside of their respective pressure so the inside might have been a little bit better but boy Lewis I as I said this yesterday writing on at an absolute elite level evil and after shaking off the Derby de cue which devastating and heartbreaking and so forth Sayas just riding brilliantly and so it was Joel Rosario we'll get to him in a little bet when we talk about what happened in California but obviously the hassle and now the potential for maximum security to go on come to Saratoga and he's going to do that Jason Services bringing them up here I know train here and if if he's feeling good he'll compete in the travers which will go a long way to decide your three year old champion undoubtedly this'll be the the best post triple crown season confrontation and then again a month later at parks in the Pennsylvania Derby so from a competition standpoint and from a shuffling of the deck standpoint the three year old division maximum securities the top three year old. This is fifth straight triple digit buyer isn't necessarily increasing. He's running one or two zero one one oh one hundred and now another one too but frankly in this era five straight hundred plus figs a pretty nice run and he he does seem to be made it just basically maintaining the form from the winter you know he's now five or seven with the the Pegasus the comeback prep for the Haskell to king for a day and now we'll look forward to Jim Dandy Saturday and then however they the sophomores mix and match match in the travers including game winner and whoever's GonNa come out of the Jim Dandy this weekend more will tacitus. I mean everybody basically that that's healthy and and you would want mutual. Guzzo ran ran very well nice follow up to the affirmed win spun to run. We should mention finish here. Juan Carlos Guerrero who was so high on the worst coming in and basically the third and the concept of ever fast being able to to clunk up that that didn't come about and it's not like the splits weren't honest and fast frankly twenty two and four so a moderate opening quarter than forty six and three one ten for three quarters one thirty four for a mile one forty seven and two due to stop the clock and maximum security was three wide early on the for into the first dern and then slowly sayas tried to get a little you better position and I know some people are criticizing Joe Talamo. I there's a few there's a few things that people seem to love to do one of the first assize Joe Talamo. It doesn't matter what he does. It's amazing somebody saying oh Mike Smith was okay. I accept the Joe Talamo ridden mutuel cousteau every start of his career Baffert can't give every horse. It's the Mike Smith. It's funny. I didn't I saw that I was like what what what what else was supposed to do. They rate links clear of of the rest of the field so that that was the highlight and I suppose some degree a low light when it came to the way in which everything unfolded we left we had to we had the opportunity to solve the chance my father. My brother was coming up to my see my dad and when it became apparent that things. We're GONNA you know not run until the early evening we teen and I headed north and we went to Connecticut and got there about I don't know quarter five and and spent <hes> the afternoon evening early evening with my dad which it's really kind of proved to be the right choice for US anyway. I I would love to have stayed but we we weren't GonNa then to get back. <hes> God knows wet but under the circumstances stances they did the best they could <hes>. I don't necessarily I don't know what else other than having cancelled right from the start. I don't know what else they were supposed to do. The rest of the card <hes> had mentioned were story winning that Cup and of course midnight be sue with a kind of an interesting kind of an interesting five cents on the dollar victory coach Roxanne terrific and in fact and they'll Romans with a couple of interesting maneuvers including sending coach rocks to mammoth and her good performance there variety Valenti and also he sent seven trumpets out to alice instead of running against and some some tough allowance votes went and got a nice seventy five thousand dollars. Take Win at Ellis in the what was it the good Lord right the good Lord I think so dale with a couple of a couple the nice clever moves I'm so fancy <hes> in that reduced matchmaker for Arnaud Delacour for the Jacksons and just Howard Graham Ocean Trevor McCarthy with with both wins in both the matchmaker and in the earlier in the ocean port and they're obviously horses that ended up scratching and Jobe for those that they were that didn't know or didn't hear it wasn't there wasn't any heat issue or anything that jobe the affected the decision by Greg Sacco to dispatch job he was having a little little tender foot so that's some heat and so Greg Sacco choosing to come out and regroup see if he turns up as early actually as a Saturday in the Jim Dandy see what they're going to do the plenty of choices the other restate that got run the Wolf L. and Tom Clarke the Justin Philip Cole just Hollick with Jose for so monmouth those together under a a very difficult set of circumstances. Let me hit a couple of other highlights and a couple of other headlines and there's really only decide from the racing Saratoga Toga yesterday terrific at a fascinating thirteen race guard starting with the jump race and straight through to the Choubey we'll get to that obviously and they just everything and and also some of the Friday action but the news of course on Friday mid afternoon that Mary Lou Whitney had passed and Mary Lou wouldn't he just an icon a person that it became so important in the ultimately in the history of Saratoga that that you can't you can't over estimate you can't over blow her herb influence and lasting contribution it can't be overstated which she did and what she represents she not only resurrected and rebuilt the Whitney stable the eaten blue and Brown the way she did it was fascinating because she went out and sought after the bloodstock that had been kind of tossed to the winds to some degree and from that from that origin she was able to to really reinvigorate right and have really protracted success. We'll hear from Nick Zito. We'll hear from in Wilkes but there's so many young horsemen that went out norm cassie they they help fee and John Hendrickson thoughts with with John <hes> they they saw an opportunity to help young horsemen they gave to as many people as would ask. We're GONNA hear from Nick Harris from from best the backstretch employees support team Mary Lou gave so generously and and you know helped establish the summer program and more not just wasn't just at Saratoga obviously but if people I think think of her in a certain assume certain frame you know as a it was a socialite and that type and philanthropist but she is she carried a lot of weight and and influence and disgust yesterday yesterday in fact when I when I was in college and would come to skidmore and visit and come during the weather summer or during the school year this town in the mid seventies everybody you come now and Oh and it's so beautiful and so this town was a little dog eared and threadbare those of you that ever stayed at the rip Van Damme. You know what I'm talking about with that Grit the Grand Union there. What's now Nice shopping area? The town has has been reborn and reached astounding. I`Ts and Mary Lou Whitney had a lot to do with that S- pack and the Dance Museum and on and on and on really quite a Gal. Let's take a break come right back. Pay Some tribute to Mary Lou and more at the racist aspirations with Steve on Sirius X._M.. Radio Amazing achievements for Pennsylvania Brits on the world stays thanks to find a city unique. Bella and Shamrock Rose P._A.. Joins Kentucky as the only state in the past decade to breed eclipse award champions three straight years add that to our unmatched incentives plus. Our Resource Development Fund can only be used to support P._A.. Breeding and racing why breed anywhere else this is Brian San Fratello go to P._A.. 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The University of Louisville has a legacy of excellence for more than twenty five years of equine business education classes are taught by industry experts in state of the art facilities located in the heartland of America's Equine Industry the University of Louisville Equine Business program when it comes to horses. We mean business for more Information Visit Business Dot Louisville Dot e._D._U.. Slash equal. Why is accreditation important in aftercare thoroughbred aftercare alliances standard? He ended up accreditation and GRANDPA's provide donors with confidence that their contributions are allocated in the most effective manner D._A.. Accreditation is only awarded after complete review of an organization aftercare cannot be an afterthought ought for the industry to learn more support. The mission visit Thurber aftercare dot Org. Hey what's going on Mikey here and I'm GonNa tell you about an offer from my good friends at express but let's be honest we know you. 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Radio YOU'RE GONNA love it and that some might keep guaranteed must be eighteen years older twenty one years old and certain states opened account with expat state was such activities legal void where prohibited national gambling support line eight hundred five to two forty seven hundred now back to at the races with Steve BIC on Sirius here's X._M.. Radio Oh and some bad night calm and that we're back at the races and we haven't played this in a while playing for change and the amazing version of stand by me and the appropriate that pull joe and Nick Harris's joining us. I could've started within Wilkes or Nick Zito to talk about Mary. Lou I think Michael Beach is GonNa join us <hes> at some point in the next day or so to talk about Mary Lou as well but it really feels appropriate to start with the backstretch and with what Mary Lou Whitney meant to the workers and Nick Harris who I've known since I worked on the racetrack and Nick <hes> sad day for Saratoga for racing in general and particularly particularly for backstretch employees who she really cared about it in a real way good morning good morning good morning yes yes <hes> many sauce for hearts <hes> because what a lady what a lady and a lady not just she with a lady in and out I mean she fought her heart and soul out to the community here in Saratoga in the back stretch in Lexington also how `bout all of that she did for the community of Saratoga and the community down in Lexington on the outside outside of the recent community so so charitable I mean you come to Saratoga. You know seve you go the Carousel in Congress faulk. Nobody came up and ask hey would you consider refurbishing the carousel and putting it in the pop walk and she loved families. She loves the children and she said Yeah. Let's restore it <hes> but let me come back to the race track. So the first time I met Mary Lou personally was about twelve two years ago when they started the backstretch appreciation program and I had met with a husband John Hendrickson prior to that and he told us what they WANNA. Do this and that what you think people like this like that and everything. everything worked out and opening night twelve years ago was a movie night on this big projection screen and it was raining so hot <hes> <hes> we didn't realize that <hes> swearing in the ten well listen nothing was going to stop the water in this tent but here is not about nine thirty headlights tore up and i personally when i was like don't who is that shut up ahead light and john mary lou get out of the car in the pouring rain no press no media just us but to them just us was a huge and they came and sat under the tent had a hot dog cat some popcorn and save with us for about thirty minutes watching the movie i'm not kidding hitting listen the water rose the water rose mary louise ankle and that's something that will always you know and she didn't she was fine and they listen they came from some gala they were they will address they were just jonathan talks mary lou was in a gown and and who knows how expensive to shoes didn't matter because she was with the people that she cared about and that happened twelve years ago go when they realized hey what we spend so much funding on the ball that the whitney ball in congress and i remember mary lou and john saying that they realized hey this is a big party for woah everybody in saratoga socialites what about the backstretch community and they call it the fact shirts community not so much backstretch workers and that's something we've learned from them to work can be a cold term that they're more than work is there the backbone and she would always ask me hey that the kids like the ice cream sundaes for what race chaplains he was overseeing i remember always she would always ask to send pictures of the kids with the ice cream needing the ice cream just we all better for knowing her <hes> doc wallet is a sad day we can also rejoice <hes> strong christian faith mary lou and the bible says absent from the body is president with the law so we have that assurance she had that assurance from physical standpoint but while she enriched so many people's lives so no doubt and the program you would you know you'd see it all you see it all around on the all around the track and all the different events and the you know the the dining program and she just there was fighting program bingo name for twelve years she would show up at the events not every night i mean who could do it every night <hes> yes that was excellent so let me go back if i can share with the audience so i started working here for new york racing and seventy eight and i can remember working that gal is during while i guess we only race in august and i remember of a gallon then we would all we will all young back then and a call with fill up and that's very little that's mary lou i didn't even know who mary lou was but we knew that she was somebody in saratoga and we would just in oil when she would get out of the car and going into the different events so it was always i can't spend any little here's mary lou and i remember that as being much younger in the parking lot similar to according to the ten in the pouring rain and it's funny you talk about that that that storm then i think for horse players nick as well they associate her with the rainstorm the travel with the birds with bird stone and that that eerie evening and in the rain and john and maureen louis oh yeah that's priceless priceless and that's what i would you know that's what i reflect on when i'm thinking about mary lou yeah those were special moments for us personally here racetrack chaplaincy z. <hes> they were stay have been extremely generous to us financially more so than than the finances which we need to survive <hes> we've been invited into the inner circle and for the last four years that have private chapel service at katie hill years ago it used to be every sunday <hes> then it started to become once a year and listen it was a who's who in racing friends that they've had that mary lou hats will fifty years would be that look like wow these people are friends such special friendships and and i've told them over the leslie that's become one of my favorite events in saratoga is the chapel service and then you go inside the house we would go inside the house a lunch and just the stories and just those close respectful people just held in high esteem in racing that surrounded them out of small circle <hes> but an impactful circle and we were invited in and that was wow what a blessing well is there how do you pay tribute neck <hes> and is there anything that <hes> you know and and it's only been forty eight hours but <hes> <hes> <hes> something something to some way to to say thank you and for everybody to show their appreciation for leonard dedication where we haven't maybe maybe some people privately have gotten to that point <hes> racetrack chaplin she has a few ideas <hes> that we just we don't want to talk about that at this point but hopefully i can come back on <hes> once that all gets clarified and speak to you about it and the audience excellent well i whatever you need communicated and the nick that goes is <hes> that goes beyond the just this situation but <hes> it a merry lose contributions and i'm sure on an ongoing basis <hes> won't come as a surprise if if there's something you know long-term term that <hes> <hes> that mary lou has has in mind for for the assistance team for the chaplaincy and i i appreciate i thought a year right away today thank you and i'm glad i had the the opportunity to speak to the audience and maybe some people are saying wow you sound so happy and <hes> joyful on joyful for have knowing mary lou for those years and to be part of what she did and the loving caring and sharing and learn from high learn from people like that well what made me up that a person nick kerris everybody and the racetrack chaplaincy and the backstretch employees support team that does so much i mean virtually every every possible the thing you can think of <hes> whether it's the daycare air support for for the children and education programs and fun activities and education every you know whatever kind of counseling that is necessary zarian and every area that <hes> that you guys touch on neck and mary lou of highly supportive of every initiative and one of those people that you know the that you you reach out to and you rarely i can't say never got you know obviously couldn't say yes she couldn't say yes over to wrangle request but <hes> would go out of her way <hes> <hes> and so many different capacities that's one thing you keep hearing <hes> repeatedly neck i appreciate it very much and and you know you got this extra you've got these extra days off there's some degree at least the afternoon monday afternoons off and i'm sure it's come as a as a real nice relief yet for and we're still getting used to it yeah i know i we don't know yet without even realizing wealth yet yes no days off at this point and that's another conversation for another day yes please you got it nick cares everybody nick doc always a pleasure amen thank you for our for our years with the barbecue and we would we would do things with nick and they would have and they would have a particularly on the dark days back then the tuesdays and we would contribute sausage and barbecue and nick is a tireless tireless worker i from morning before racing than later afterward <hes> through the all afternoon you see him just all day long whether it's the different jobs you know in everybody on the backstretch typically has got more than one one more than one job if you work in the mornings <hes> might work on the racetrack in the afternoons different different capacities and nick at always smiling i never i don't think i've ever seen deck <hes> out of sorts we're going to stay here we'll continue to appreciate marylou whitney and we always have talked about the racetrack successes whether it's with the wilkes recently norm cassie when he got his first steak win this spring and <hes> with nick zito over the years but i wanted to include not just the backstretch work but also the town of saratoga and who better than michael v._h. join us michael good morning like so many just you know just saddened felt like mary lou would would live forever well good morning steve thank you for having me this morning and it did and <hes> you know she was just the the the last of an era for sure but a wonderful elegant sincere through woman michael talk about the town itself i went to colgate seventy eight two eighty two and started coming here about that time on a regular basis and people that have only come to saratoga in the last fifteen years twenty years they might not necessarily know the transformation the rebirth of this town and and she had a lot to do with it oh she certainly did i mean i've been here all my life and there's no question that the saratoga twenty nineteen a heck of a lot different than the one in nineteen sixty-nine and you know it's fairly well known about they're supportive spec <hes> <hes> i would he you know i think what i'd like to stay on it about mary lou later in life was <hes> a couple of personal experiences you know and and the twenty thirteen we celebrated the status quo centennial of racing in saratoga springs and you know i i saw her as he was kind of a unifying force in saratoga springs she brought people together for that committee along with their husband john and she supported so many aspects of what we did you know here fifty years after after katie hill and her arrival she still making sure that she's helping saratoga in any way that she can and you know that's just one of the things about her i mean her commitment to that was what was really incredible and you know we sit around the table and and chat about things to do and you know we just knew that you know or chocolate from the support it and i think it was a pretty substantial recognition of one hundred fifty years of racing saratoga she she had a she had a real real good finger on the pulse of things michael is that is that fair to say she she had a real savvy about At the at the association during the franchise debate and when when there's been certain riffs and she was kind of a behind the scenes there were times where she was happy to be <music> out front but then I think there were a lot of times you would hear a lot of times after the fact Michael Right that you know Mary. Lou had a lot to do with that outcome. You know you're right and I would. I would tell a story about about <hes> the way she was into with <hes> thoroughbred racing and Saratoga in particular <hes> after sunny died <hes> she formed her own stable which you and we know and Tommy Kelly was her trainer and so I called Katie Hill and I said well now that you're doing this. I like to do a story for you in the Saratoga his. When do you want me to meet you saw we met at eight thirty in Kelly's <hes> Steve Marylou Whitney showed up with notebooks and notebooks six of research that she had done on Whitney blood and she sat there so happily going through pages of her research and out of that research came bird stone in bird towns family okay good we talked to Nick Zito yesterday about it and <hes> Nick kind of echoed that too that you know that she she indicated there were certain horses? This is the the and she was keeping an eye on it. As a new went to act too I mean she reestablished it and she being advised by by. Many people have bloodstock advisors or was. There's a lot of that her on her own doing. I can't say about bloodstock advisors. I don't know but I do know that she went into it. <hes> full-bore after after sunny passed away and <hes> you know she certainly had wonderful people around her and you know nick right there at the top of the list. I mean you know you know. The Whitney. Tradition is getting classic winners if you can and he certainly delivered on that count but he just you know Mary who just brought <hes> <hes> intoxicating energy wherever she went hand. If there was something to learn she just really enjoyed doing it. In a case of racing she wasn't going to step aside just because he was gone <hes> instead she was going to make sure that she was aware that legacy and look at how did it very much and there's so many there's so many things that continue to come out it. It's fascinating because I'm trying to accumulate all the various obituaries and there's there's things you find out the Olympics the in Lake placid somehow I I have never once seen her name associated but apparently she had a lot to do she and sunny at a a lot to do with getting the Olympics back Lazett. Yes <hes> yes. I mean it's it's it's remarkable. I I don't really have the proper word but <hes> she was just wonderful. You know you you you don't. I don't WanNa say things like yesterday. I tried to avoid it on T._v.. About saying the Venire and there's no one you know what she she's certainly difficult difficult to replace but there are there are certain individuals that that have in the game that and will stay in the game certainly Charlotte Weber gas to mind and yet yesterday it occurred to me. I was thinking who who takes the place Jane Lion yesterday who of course one the shoe v. one the night and you know someone like Jane Lion and the doesn't have to be the female but see hero died of course last week and right and right Mr Mellon was being these are these their patrons and their people that that are are so important as pillars yes <hes> well. They call it pillars of the turf but the foundation. They're really the the foundation of of the sport. If you know you've racing racing needs what Mary Lou brought to the table and it always has ash and it's it's tremendous that it's still attracts people like that because that's absolutely essential part for over racing well and certainly <hes> for the social <hes> portion and for the cultural the influence <hes> in round Saratoga and really everywhere she went and it's something that you as you mentioned <hes> you know your own history of chronicling all aspects of Saratoga and of of racing career and elsewhere in New York and nationwide and I've got you this opportunity and I'm not going to pass it by the travers book that that you and unless it is it is unbelievable. I think it's wonderful. I kept telling people better bring a forklift because it is substantial Rachel and it's Bryant told the story the beginning of the meat about how it came about yeah for your part talk about what it what the research and how much pleasure you took in in creating a travers history history. It's it's the fourth book that I don and and by far the most fun and Brian called me and we've been friends for quite some time and he called less. I put it maybe November and he said look. This is my idea. The the book is Brian's idea and <hes> he said you know I. I kinda like to do this with you so we we're you know we're friends at the National Museum of racing so we spent a good portion of the winter months researching you know the traverse history and we're lucky enough to have a great library at the National Museum of racing so we didn't have to go uh-huh too far keeneland was totally cooperative. The photographers that we both know in love in Saratoga <hes> they were totally cooperative and it really was just a lot of fun to do and we divided up the decades and each each brought what I think can hope is our own writing style to it and and <hes> you know press though we have a really fun book and it's one that you know you can <hes> you know put on the coffee table and opened up a page and enjoy that page with the colors and the design and then go to another page. I down the road but it's it's <hes> it's fun and you know again. Crediting Brian Steve isn't it time the travers was so honored. Yes and I think it's funny because <hes> just on Thursday. Steve Hoskin was was really extolling the travers as you know having been elevated and the Midsummer Derby Monica which some people bristle at but basically as as a classic and you know you go through the history and this book will be they'll be revelations for people as they go through. You know year-by-year. I I mean everybody knows Jaipur Right Dan but <hes> there's so many other great and sort of forgotten moments. Let me let me hybrid something into this to Michael while we have a chance I haven't had mentioned on here on the show show yet today the passing of Jimmy Pico and <hes> yeah how about how about willow hours upset <hes> of the travers when we were at the library for the book launch <hes> on July light ten. I had the opportunity when we spoke <hes> you know the crowd you know everyone what are your favorite travers that out and so forth and you know <hes>. I mentioned Jimmy Pico <hes> I I was I knew him and I did a barn interview for that story story morning there well our winning the travers for Mrs. Schott was so important that could not be nicer. Man on the back stretch and in the audience Pat Kelly stood up and you know tipped his hat in honor of Jimmy p coup for that one but yeah that's that's what's in the book doc but that's that's a real fond memory of mine and and if you don't mind <hes> hybrid I can use this with you too and of course <hes> Jimmy Pico brought him up with nick yesterday on television. I was was lucky enough to have him on the radio. When Valves Prince passed away and we talked about what a great job he did with vows sprints he you know he he was kind of a bellwether Michael <music> sadly for horsemen who should have stayed right up until the end of their almost to their life? I mean he was eighty eight so that's impractical but he he ran out of he ran out of clients and he was not necessarily the kind of guy who was going to go panning for for new clients and I it there. He was as good a horseman as anybody of his generation and when Fred Hooper died he found it hard to gain young new new owners I listen I saw Jim in action at the barn. He was as good as any horsemen could be you know Jimmy was not that kind of person. Jimmy didn't Jimmy didn't advertise advertise <hes> he just he just loved he just love being with the horse and he thought his work spoke for itself and he also loved his family a great deal well of course <hes> his brother is probably Clarence has been gone probably twenty years and okay yeah he's right and and Helen his wife. I think I think we spoke. I know she was not in she was in poor health at the time that he visited but it was one of the real pleasures for me. He was looking Eber pembroke pines and it was a real pleasure to me and I'm GonNa find that I'm gonNA find. We're GONNA find that audio and put the best of page because I said this I'd T._v.. Yesterday Mike when I was first learning you the other people's names that would jump out at you and and you just started to you know it's a it's a horse play is a game of acquired knowledge. Just keep layers of of information and I I remember Clarence and Jimmy Pico and I was confused early on in the in the eighties. I didn't realize that Scottie and flint she'll offer with the same person. I thought maybe maybe I don't know because Randy was sending horses out. I thought that I would hear the name Scotty she'll offer and see flint and I said okay. This must be his brother. I didn't know and I think I think I had the same recollection of Clarence and Jimmy Pico to some degree but I was really honored to have him on the show and you and I was daughter and we send out our sympathies to the to the family <hes> because he was somebody that just <hes> just had a real class about out him and get gentility has as Mary Lou combination. Let me ask you about one more book signing to you must be doing another opportunity to for people to the beat you and Brian and signed the book. I know that we've got the impressions coming up and I think that's August third and then we've got a couple in September Saratoga springs and there's probably more that Ryan hasn't told me about how got a pretty busy guy but he knows I'll be there. It's it's a lot of fun <laughter> well and I'll I will relate it to everybody but as as people come to town <hes> the opportunity to have <hes> the book signed and <hes> the travers one hundred fifty years of Saratoga greatest race <hes> I mentioned that it's it's sort of a combination of champions and of <hes> almost like the Derby Derby the old derby press guide that page you know to each winter all the stories behind it. It's it is a must have Michael. I I'm so delighted to get you on and I've wanted to have you visit for ever and <hes> <hes> sadly under under these circumstances with with Mary Lou's passing but <hes> you know one of the most respected the writers and and voices <hes> about the game anywhere <hes> Michael Thank you well. I'm happy that you we could do this and thank you so much and Mary. Lou brought us together like she did so many occasions right. Thanks so much Michael Dr Michael V._H.. And <hes> you know part of the part of the beach empire the far reaching of each family and I've wanted to get Michael on. I've never had the the serendipitous moment but he he had an opening here and just perfect so we've we've talked about Mary Lou for forty five minutes forty minutes and haven't even talked really about any of the success on the racetrack. We'll let Nick Zito and EEN Wilkes do that. <hes> later this morning coming up for the top of the hour. Let me get a break in here and Johnny de will join us. Johnny had a a special weekend and self <hes> Dow Mar and more than DEL. Mar got a chance to be introduced to his granddaughter. If you haven't seen some of the pictures that Gail has circulated to her media and I don't know I don't.

Mary Lou Saratoga Nick Zito Mary Lou Whitney Jimmy Pico Joe Talamo Michael Dr Michael V._H travers Nick Mike Smith Saratoga springs Jim Dandy Nick Harris Johnny Johnny Trevor McCarthy Mary John Hendrickson Brian Brian Steve Sirius
Nick Zito Interview - July 19, 2019

The Horse Racing Radio Network Podcast

17:13 min | 2 years ago

Nick Zito Interview - July 19, 2019

"Join now onset here by hall of Famer Nick Zito. He's won a couple of Derby's preakness Belmont and most famously probably the two thousand four Belmont stakes. You heard the rejoin earlier uh smarty Jones the roar of one hundred twenty thousand but Bergson random down and he did it for hall of fame for your Nick Zito in the late Great Mary Lou Whitney who passed away today. At the age of ninety three. We got nick with US down. Nick Sarsfield loss yeah. Thank you so much. Anthony and I appreciate that I've been here in the last couple hours. Jude's down in now Jimmy Johns of Lexington Jude Judas Classy Guy Very classy what you laugh joe even with that giggled caller in called on your and I'm so impressed. I listened to what we're we're. Am I gonNA go play hide and seek GonNa do. I couldn't be a good bartend. I gotta listen erasing racing especially if you and Anthony. How did you hear what was your first thoughts just came through like everybody else and that's local T._v.? Station now they call and it's just one thing that I wanted to tell everybody out. There is when someone passes. They'll always say nice things. They'll always say he or she was a great guy great lady. It's all true about Mary. Mary Lou all the things that you hear from now. On the next twenty four hours forty eight hours it'll be all true which which I think that's amazing to have that life to live that life and to have people just I love you and you know we all WanNa be loved. I guess but she gave it back. You could see she give it back. And of course you know you're going to say well. She's very wealthy lady and this and that didn't matter she she was just an incredible person great heart grade soul and I certainly miss as you could imagine and I'm very fortunate to be with her all those years and it's tough loss. Sometimes you know you get you. You're being interviewed and you wait for the interviewers. Say something to you. It's kind of like I can almost do this show with you fell tonight about her because there's so much that she's given to this Saratoga and in life in general so I look at it personally for me. I'm just when they say celebration alive. That's what it is today to. It's just not a passing. It's a celebration of her life. Yes she had such your run. You know she she she had a magnificent life for decades and she was so important to the city city of Saratoga not just the racetrack but the city in the residents of Saratoga talk about that a little bit but you know i. I don't know how to say this but she she helped the bill this town to what it really is. She brought the today show be shot today show. She brought it up the Saratoga. She did all these things she had all those celebrities and all those famous people come and visit her. She did so many things I was talking to judge carmine and he had said when he does operation she helped him because she built that Saratoga hospital her husband John Harrington and everybody's got something to say about. You know she wanNA. She looked after him. He just told me I was just talking to do you remember when you do you remember the first day you met her. Oh Yeah I'll tell you all believe this is the weirdest thing so they had a place they have a place here your call lake lonely so I work for Sandra pace and that was manhasset stable. I was my first. That was my biggest job. Affiliate had ride sally that belong to to manhasset stable. Sandra was the daughter of Joan Whitney Pace. Jason owned the mets and Charlie Payson. That was her parents. So Sandra invited me. I was like black hair some late thirties. Whatever and I sit down at the table? Here's Mary Lou Oh and C._B.. Whitney I was I was great and I just got along so well with her and then I have a picture in my bar of strike to gold and she was friendly with the owners and it's one of my great pictures I leave it in my mind you come over. I WANNA show it's amazing. It's one thousand nine hundred one then of course Jon her husband John Henriksen and we have to give a shout out to him for the years he was married to him what he did for her to you know he was absolutely tremendous and never left aside. Never use tremendous and you know she said Nick You WanNa take a look at these pedigree's not trying to couple of horses arrest was history. That's the rest was history but I've known her longtime shore but the rest was history and just a great relationship with both with both of them. You know what Mary Lou and John and of course you know. I had a special place for I remember two thousand five looking over to the hall of fame. She was sitting in front row counter. We looked at each other was kind of like it was. It was pretty cool. Let's go back a year sure. Let's go back to two thousand four yeah. You were able to bring her something yes that nobody else up until that point was able to bring her. You brought her a horse that that would even starting to three going into the Oh oh four season birds was the top of everyone's list as far as the Kentucky Derby fifteen years ago and whatever happened along the way the the the incident at Surf Way Park when they sealed the tracking the rain Derby Day talk talk us through Belmont Day and what you guys experienced together as the as the villain I mean a role all the Nick Zito and Mary Lou Whitney were never really in the role of the villain that yeah well it was interesting you know at that time I don't know I think I might have had five seconds myself. You know myself I might ahead five seconds into Belmont. The goal just got A._p.. Vow Thirty six so many but but but what happened was everybody even thought it was a coronation smarty. Jones is going to win and think about this hundred twenty thousand people at a race track. Maybe thirty three million people watching and that'll never happen again. I mean not not in New York racing you know right and he comes and I don't think to this day. A lot of people blame Stewart Elliott's ride which I don't I disagree with Ramallah quarter. He was the winner but hop a pedigree took her took birch known home. What was it like from this Whitney in that role of swelled for all she had done up here car for that three minutes? She was the enemy well you know. Is it true story you could you could ask John Exciting race down to the line here at Edna at Saratoga and it was eight me out the money all the ball Razon but I believe they even was throwing cans and something you know so I had made a joke. I said well at least one. They threw out me. 'cause I'm from New York. I said it wasn't anything in it. Fear there was no beer in it but she did a graciously. If you remember Bob Costas couldn't believe it. Everybody couldn't believe the way she handled it. It was so spectacular with a grace and which he would. which he brought to the table talking when Nick Zito Hall of Famer he trained many many years for Marylou Whitney passed away today at the age of ninety three and then up here at the travers that very same year wild weather day one of the top? It'll go down as one of the top five travel time because they were almost going to cancel it was it was and then I'll tell you nothing a. and thanking Barry Schwartz was the chairman at the time but they didn't seal the track date. Krista rain was supposed to come like right about the race or after after the race but it was almost like if you ever watched the movie to natural uh-huh Thunder lightning darkest can beat out of even put the lights on e._S._p._N.. Done it and it was wanted a great moments I think of Saratoga racing and of course to be part of that Mary Lou winning that travelers in in that kind of rain soap place was unbelievable but as they ran the race lightning came at dock it was it was amazing. Everybody that was here still talks about that and that's fifteen years ago and in a little point the year before she was she won the oaks bird town with us at spurt stones brother and to this day a lot of people don't know that's still bestest oaks ever run. I believe wow if you look it up Ju. You're Jewish now. I what what what what is it like so we you know we we know what happened in front of the cameras and stuff when she wins the travers in in the blue and the and the Brown Yeah Eh home she's in her hometown chaos going on in the sky. Yes I'm sure you guys go out and celebrate that night. Now it's interesting because we all got soaking wet came in. I just had a pizza and I don't know where she went but wind closed doors. Well you know what thank you for saying that because she was a regular person I know Wilkins all blenders stories about Mrs Whitney's mouth sense of humor. Oh yeah she was a regular person so so I was very privileged behind closed doors she was she was incredible. I mean I really you know it. It was a great it was a great thing for me. You know we look it's you could hear. I'm sorry I'm sad but I'm also. I'm celebrating like you said it's a celebration. Look Anthony Jude. She was the queen of Saratoga. Now you can replace just about anybody. Try to replace hard this town. That's impossible so anybody that wants to become acquainted or what thanks she might become acquaint. The best. She's GonNa do is a duchess or something else. She Ain't GonNa be no. No no one's GONNA take place. She stood alone just like Saratoga stance along. They exemplify the same quality judy. We leave you out. I'm enjoying listening. You know the Wiseman is quiet you because he knows how little he knows but yeah the regular person thing I I never got the pleasure of of hanging out with this Whitney I I met her one time briefly but but I mean I I loved her. I thought she was just magnificent. All the things that she did not only for racing but for art in our community you know she she was not just just a one trick pony I mean she she did a little bit of everything the philanthropy everybody knows about in how how many people she helped and I mean just just an amazing human being and I think that's the best part of her is that she was one hundred percent human being never put herself above anybody or or any of that she was. She was right in their pitching with with everybody from from the groom's. Nice to the elites in Turf Club thank you thank you for saying that thank you telling your audience because it's her and her husband John Responsible for that backstretch that they have on every every day every day. When the meat is on they do amazingly breakfast breakfast area well food that they have those the workers and everything that's there? That's their project and you're absolutely right and thank you say unhappy because I think a lot of people need to know that we will remember the most about see. I'm smiling not even WanNa remember that I thought you were going to come up here from being honest and I know you will louis come up here. In a little bit of a different was no I was I was but you know what somebody's pointed out. Actually ten woken your pride pointed out he said don't you celebration of life to because he kinda got me. I said you know he's right. I mean they they had some relationships so now you're telling me about. What do you remember you sound smile in it because there's so many great things about that particular story yeah? I'll tell you once I got to. I'll tell you to race track stories. You'll love this a trained horses once right twenty twenty years in California so I'm getting I'm getting bird stone ready Travis this should have anthony answered the Fox News people but anyway <hes> radio is more important than television N._B._C. Affiliate C._B._S. affiliate. Will they wait. I got a horse and later so they can but anyway so I I'll tell you this is this is kind of a cool story so and she get mad at me. Sometimes she would not lot not a lot but you would get mad. What's so I'm watching bird stone train and he's training for the travers maxine a long time so let's work? Let's let's just put like a cheap. Let's let's Kinda work almost a mile but we'll go from the half-mile poll. We'll go from whatever the half Lau Poulsen. We'll just keep going something so anyway trying to work them twice. That's what I told them passed to work to half miles. You know what I mean like a mile right. So have you work a mile on a training track. That's almost that's like you. GotTa be Superman to do that. You know to anyway so she works brilliantly this and that anyway I said wow because there's a whole all he just kept going and it was amazing. I think I listen to this on a training track. I'm pretty sure I got like twenty seven eight hundred twenty five and four and Gal out the mile forty which is in human on all corral right so I said to American. I said why Mary Lou in it something how good bosses could train themselves. She goes look wash your mouth out with soap sunny with Fi. You're Australian there was I said I was telling the truth themselves right or sometimes but that's how efficient effective and clear thinking she was about look. She loved horror horses period then you call them Mary Lou she didn't go to Mrs Whitney stuff I nine of I don't think I have a call. Mrs Whitney my life. I was called the Mary Lou. I don't think so I called John. I called him a few ties to Hemmingsen. He told me just is calling John. Maybe once or twice I would just tease him at the even got mad. That's how that's the kind of people they were and has what they done racing U._S.. And you know we miss a big part. It's Saratoga of core. Let me tell you something but she's loved down in Lexington. She's loved in a state. I can tell you also are you so if anybody would be you. It would be you my friend anyway so you think I should go on camera now. See the fake.

Saratoga Mary Lou Mary Lou Whitney Nick Zito Anthony Jude Marylou Whitney John nick Sandra pace smarty Jones Belmont New York Nick Sarsfield manhasset stable Joan Whitney Pace Mrs Whitney Mary Saratoga hospital Derby Bob Costas
212. Hello Mary Lou: Prom Night II: LIVE! (w/ Charlize Theron, Seth Rogen)

How Did This Get Made?

1:25:35 hr | 2 years ago

212. Hello Mary Lou: Prom Night II: LIVE! (w/ Charlize Theron, Seth Rogen)

"Hey, everybody before we start the show wanted to let you know to sign up for our mailing lists to be the I know about our summer tour. We're doing a big alive show at the Wilton in July. You can find out all about the tickets at HDTV, G, M, info dot com. That's HDTV GM info dot com. It's a big big space. So you'll definitely get tickets. Tickets are still available flying come see us at the Wilton. And make sure you send firm mailing lists. Do not miss out on our announcements about June and September or hitting the west and east coast. Alright people today's episode is brought to you by. Accompany that knows how to turn your ideas into a reality. That's right. Squarespace squares base. Makes it easy for you to launch your passion project. Whether you're showcasing your work or selling products of any kind with a beautiful templates and the ability to customize about anything you can easily make a website yourself in minutes. How do I know because I did it three times? Yeah. 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They call it in the bed answering these on the line drinking navy eight minutes because they who Zeiss because the bad. Jim Bonnie looking kind night Paula job. In letter will Jason getting laid Jones make a show all the monkey south getting paid. That does watch a movie while they're making the gray. Here's a real question for you. How did this get may? People. We are here in our hands with in laws does California at the log at the cornet theater. It's such a great place to perform, and it's a great night to talk about a classic film. Hello, Mary Lou prom night to holy shit. To catch you up. If you've not seen this movie in the fifties. Young girl is just about to Bahia given her title of prom Queen. When a jealous ex burned boyfriend burns her alive with a stink bomb. Cut to one thousand nine hundred seven she comes back from the day questionable. We'll get into it. And exacts revenge on everyone just at that high school, and some of the people who weirdly are still at that high school from when she was there. It's a big old mess, but it's one of the best movies. I've ever seen in my life. Here to break it down with me. My co host. Please welcome Jason man's. What's up jerk? Jason. How are we doing everybody? I'm gonna I'm gonna be serious right now, dead serious. I loved this movie. This movie's got it all I literally wrote the eighties boobs. But. Michael Ironside, this movies got everything, you know, what this movie has none of what exposition. Don't need it. It's like strikes back. I says, you know, what I think might be happening. Nobody ever says I figured it out. This is what we need to do the events of the movie just unfold. Like a ventures of Finnity war if he has not been there for the first time, why bother now Jason wanna host say about this movie is every actor is going forward. And I don't mind that only hard. I like it every person in this movie is maybe the greatest actor of their generation. So many of these people I've never heard of again, and yet here they are doing unbelievable work. There's no better person breakdown this tale. Then my other co host g is in the movie that is coming out. It's called longshot, please welcome June. Diane radio. June. Well, how are you? But how are you? Mm great June. When I told you it was a scary movie. Your reaction was simply fuck. Yes. And I was scared points. But I have to say also rather enjoyed this motion picture that. Okay. So that woman is truly a star. This is Vicky. Dr. That's what I'm saying. Never before. Have I seen such great work, and by the way, lifestyles rocking horse in your room? I kept on waiting for it to be revealed that she was like a horse girl like one of those girls who loves horses. No, I don't I don't think she by the way that the size of that is revealed late in the movie, but she doesn't ride she's not a writer. She. Drian, masturbation device we understand this to be a master basic advice. Today comes in. And she's like. This movie said allegory for sexual awakening is not this is the scene where she then like stone cold tongue kisses her dad. Doesn't protect who. Into it. He's Jit into it. We'll get into we. I don't want to give so much talk. And we felt like we needed to bring someone who had been on this podcast before someone who understands, you know, the the care that needs to be taken with a movie like this also from the movie Longchamp he's talking Seth Rogan. Looking back. You're in the rare air your three timer here on how to get made. May. I assume it's because this is a Canadian Phil here. I have special insights. Canadian on the panel. We can say fuck you say, Eddie, we all we hear you. Jason. We hear you Hannah not happy about some of the things I said in that little Italy. We got a lot of feedback about that episode what fired up Canadians there is a real little Italy Canada stupid. You don't understand literal Italy can exist anywhere. They do those New York accent. Crazy. I so are you so American Centric that you don't even understand that you said it was both in Vancouver Toronto multiple ties, those are different cities. Jason, hey, christianson as talian is Roberto Anini. Am I crazy or is Jason straight up snack? From a different. Not that you would know all Canadian actors. But the there anyone here that you recognize 'cause I actually is. Yeah. The woman who played Mary old timey original, Mary Lou was on original. There's only one why that she kind of embodies the is. L is Mary. But there I would we could get into it. But I would argue Lewis represented by two actors to various points of the movie. There was a Canadian show. What's funny is Google that because I both remembered as be called sweating bullets. And I also remember it be called tropical, heat and. Then I googled it at he should I found is that for some reason it was called at various times both. Sweating bullets drop. Ical heats. You say that because this movie was called Hamilton high. And till the very end it was like betas Hamilton high was not supposed to be a sequel, and we'll get into all that and a little bit. But this is not made as sequel film, Cloverfield lateness fucking shit. There wreck conning everything. All right. Well, you know, we have an extra seat here tonight. And that is because there's so much talk about we needed an extra person. Also from the movie longshot, please Charlotte's there. Me. Welcome. Welcome welcome. I have seen hard core porn with less horny nece. Then this moving. Forty movie everybody's horny in this. Everybody wants to fuck. Oh wall. Their child. Oh, yeah. Say I mean, this is the question. I had right off the bat. Like when you introduce this character Vicky issued good girl bad girl. I don't even know because she seemingly before she's possessed. We don't know what she's like she seems like parents are weird. Yes, they're little. They're definitely the way. So now that we know what we know about her dad. I think it explains a lot about her mom. Knowing her dad's so willingly tongue her just the drop of a hat. Like, no question. I mean, I mean. I mean. He leans looking back. Verse it afterward. Movie full of crazy shit that they didn't even think it was the craziest part of the movie people who made the movie mother saw the mother thought and her whole thing was you can't go to the prom. Dad was like. I just wanna taste the last little bit. That's left on Melissa. Their family. And I do think that that mother was just trying to de sexualize her daughter to keep that away from her. We all know Canadian dad's love to kisser. It's a fact. Little Italy Canada in Toronto Couve or you. That is by far the most fucked up thing I have ever I n tire life. It's called a sketch. Goodnight. The movie opens in nineteen fifty seven or somewhere around that time. And Mary Lou we are introduced Mary Lou at Mary Moloney. Mary moloney. She is I fire cracker. I can't quite figure out because she seems to be going to the problem with this man with a receding hairline who looks like these mid thirties in high school. He why not why not just cats Michael Ironside? Like, why did you even go through the process the name? I felt like they have somebody with a receding hairline. So that people when it went and turned into Michael people be like, well, of course. But who cares? That up in the intervening years, he lost his hair. He could just be a high school kid. You don't have a thirty year old played ice. Cool kid just because he has the same receding hairline. And Mary Lou is going to she basically leaves her boyfriend or boyfriend goes to punch, and then she starts hard core making out with this guy like an when she. Thing humping while just drinking. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That that. That like doing shots of like doing shots out of a bottle of vodka while dropping the hardest driving. I've ever say. Wow. That's Canadian is impressed. I feel like you have to like you get there in your forties. Like, right. Yeah. Not in your like early. That's hard toil your ship. He's like fucking just go in and drinking and talking and it's like amazing though. I agree performances. Unbelievable draws the board were. A cold open where she's in confession is saying, you know, actually, the recur Vicki's confession. Also, very good. The recurring confessional scenes. We're all really good. But the one of the first one where Mary Lou is like giving her compassion. And it turns from like the confession of I did this and I did that. And she just goes what did she say? I disobeyed. My parents many times I've taken the modes name in vain many times. I had sinful relations who is at my school. Many boys. Many times. These are great sins. You must prepare yourself for the consequences. Here's one more thing. What is my child? And I liked it all and then you reverse on her and she's written her phone number in the confession. But I I mean, I was like this is the greatest movie we've ever done. I called that number and CLYDE the way you're Jay. Number every seriously, dating Mary Lou that number is out to the number of the screenwriter of the no. Yeah. I mean, I don't think it's still works. But it was way to find out all that guy audience never change their thing. Everyone's on landlines. This is going to be great people going to come and tell me how much they love my movie. I mean, this movie yet opens with her and the the boyfriend so jealous that he grabs abandoned stink bomb. Looks like a giant joint it. I don't understand. I mean, I didn't think stink bombs were they look way more destructive than it needed to be ever. Also, why do those guys abandon it like they obviously have plan? So they want to set I was getting older guy. They were setting up. He was kind of coming in. Okay. Let's just just first second talk about that bathroom the grossest bathroom I have ever seen in my life. Yeah. It is fucking disgusting. Shit. Everywhere there. And this is the fifties. You should have been cleaned at this point. No. But this is fifty Canada. I don't think they had plumbing. And no, yeah. Did the New Brunswick hover where you had your ass? Three feet above the toilet shat towards it. You gotta just like in in the floor and just treads. Exactly. Yeah. Noticed it though, right dirty runs out. He's like climbing over shit on. It was like the bathroom it flooded already. And it was it was disgusting because this movie goes back and forth between like this horror world of the high school and a real world that is and that look like the horror world of ice school before we were introduced to it. And I feel like they ran out of money fuck to shoot in the one that we have anybody did anybody else feel like stranger things ripped off the upside down. Basically the same as the upside down the same set just with like stuff like hanging around on creepy grocer. Did you guys think it looked like the music video for total eclipse of the heart? Big time thinking might be the same the same school video was filmed in Edmond Berta than it was the same school. That would be like that music. Video building was featured a long ninjas and defensing boys. By the way, if we're talking about the bathroom, that's the way we're we're not even into any part of this movie. This almost two hour film. Long. It was one point. I looked like how their forty more minutes to this. Over that moment when the principal comes in kind of looks at him. They shared a moment. Didn't they felt like there was like, I don't know. What was there? But I felt like the Billy. I mean. Yeah. Because their peers they're the same age. Got away with it. He's weak grew up together. And I'm the principal. You're still a student is up here in joying the Brahm Bill, and he's not really and he's like. Yup. These things suck. We're both the same age. What should we do? Maybe they both auditioned for the principal role. And he was just give it to everybody. Who addition got apart the music in the movie was good. It was like I was yet. They had real real. It'd be music so Canadian clearance laws. Very different stink bomb is dropped a little too closely stink bomb, by the way, looks like TNT and see four's. It's dropped little too closely to Mary Lou her prom dress. Obviously, we know goes up tonight -able. I mean, we all know. Purpose. Yeah. Trying to stink bomb. Read it very different. I read. You trying to kill her. Thought he found the stink bomb. It was like I'm going to kill her with this thing. I think it was supposed to be like the blood him Kerry worse. But I think he was try listen. It was a crazy thing whether who's trying to kill her or not it was an insane thing to do. It was an absolutely insane thing too. And she just walked it on her putting her hand up some guys in the middle of the back. He said she'd gone farther with that kid already then they'd ever gone before. But let me ask you, maybe I don't know enough about stink bombs, but. Ninety percent dynamite. What do you need to know? Here's what I don't know about them. Do you? Do you like them? Okay. So. More questions. Do they do they? What did they smell? I have never seen. I'm not afraid to admit this. I've never seen a stink bomb. That's going to be the pull quote from this episode to forget it. I guess the one cent never sees this thing. Luxury. Grow stickball, buddy. I know I was so rounded by think. I woke up every morning. My mom lettuce stink bomb in my in the closet that I lived in my house broke down, but doesn't stink. My dad was a stink bomb driver. Thunk stink bombs. But I get it. You've never seen as. Again, I'm I put myself out there and say it, I haven't I didn't know this confession for Marc Maron, June the wrong podcast star revealing your shit as someone who. I had never seen a stink bomb before. All I saw was a grown, man. And adults light up some sort of contraption in threw it at a woman. That's what I saw with my eyes. So I agree. I I only I only got it when they cut to his reaction. And he he definitely looked like hey man who didn't mean to do. I'm forty I should know I've been in this situation where several times over my long life. Wait a minute. I could be tried it than adults because I'm gonna I I said, I should intercede. If I can I think he meant to throw a lit- object at her, right? I think what he was. I thought he was surprised about was that it literally so quickly. I wanted to be savored. Aries was dangerous baby. That's why she was drinking so much in the beginning. So she was drinking vodka got on our dress. That's flammable as she went to sell. Liable. All cocktail a lot of fire a lot of fifty had kerosene threads. So. Clothing is the villain in the movie for great arts. Killer. There's a Cape that is a killer and better Cape work than doctor strange. I think. Also gloves are the gloves are getting ready. The village is closely. Yeah. By the main base of the villains are trunk. Yes. The trunk of ways. That's where I wanted. Position clothing kept coming. Well, first of all, Billy. Okay. So Billy kills Mary. Sue, Mary, Lou. Billy kills me. Okay. So are really. Care about this movie again. The. You're out of here. Kid, Billy, Billy respect, really murders. Her in front of everybody all of that happens happens. Everybody kind of turns around nobody tries to throw blanket on her. Nobody does anything. Right. It's a slow death as well route directed that ROY who did that is then cut to the principal of the school. Is he not prison penance, you can't leave? Now, you just got a glove. How is he not like in jail? How is he not arrested? Eighty laws vis-a-vis murdered Canada. If a stink bomb explodes, a lady, it's. By the way, that's done was the longest running fire ever performed. It was a Megan. They do nothing. These don't know CPR dollar. Look, I go outside. Now. Nothing happens when Vicky shot. Shot her boyfriend. Just heading he's warning before she's. Fokker? Nobody even trying Noah geared at all. They're all. To die. Don't even try nice the way. She waved was very dynamic. I guess my question is is the trunk telling us the story because opening narration the Trump, and that's my story. And. I kept trading. What is the jester truck saying what is this? And also why are the items that were on the murdered girl's body in their in the trunk in the high school in locker for an unsolved murder, apparently because the perpetrator of the high school principal. But did she Cape when she was burning ever gets it on? That's true. Yeah. It's just the dress and the. And she's the keta. How is the keep possess? No, she's not wearing. Warning for. That's a good pool here. A it's a crucial detail that the two things that she never wore or touched are the things that act out as. Okay. Oh theory to go. Okay. She was trying. She was waiting to get those on her body. She already won it, which makes it hurt. Yes. So she has come back to reclaim those items. God and gloves the rope. Yes. They are in the sense. Yeah. So what do you win it? It's like a wand in Harry Potter. If you do also. They're one two way from that one will respond to you now. So I get it. That's that's what we're going to go. We're going to deal with. Hey, everybody, we have to take a brief break in the show to hear a word from our sponsor. So we all know that finding the perfect vacation home is hard. 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So I had that question to I get the lump sum, I was like who is this fucking guy. And why are they in cahoots like with no, I d seem to care who? She is I slowly thought was the other gung, but it makes free. Like other before he's hitting the step. Who was he in the movie, she was having sex with fry humming? Yes. She was the girlfriend books. The other guy. Go for explodes her they formed some friendship ond, by the way because be friends. We went together. We're borrowed. Oh boy boyfriend. Did nothing wrong boyfriend not stink bomb threes guy. Did nothing wrong. He was waiting for her to get the thing. He was he didn't put her out. He didn't. Interceded literally runs over to her with his coach docket. And then go jacket. Please her. Coach, Jack, it he's pleased or go check it. And then takes moment looks at where. Guys. Wait. No. Here's a question that I had. I think maybe I just wanted to get a little more backstory about Mike because clearly he got married. He had a kid what happened to that wife, and what did he ever really love her her? Maybe that's promo as anyone here seen from one. Well. It's interesting that you bring that up these movies. Are this is a to yell fair gnarly? Yeah. They're four prom night films. The only do they want to guess there's one thing that connects all of them just the trunk. You guys don't guess Villette them because you may know the answer anyone else. I went a prom. That is that is that Debbie. Is it that school? Okay. Interesting. These are all good gall things. It's Brock Simpson. The guy who does the whole potato radio. Guacamole only radio. What? Yes, nature's perfect vegetable rich and AM FM and carbohydrates, please. I'm sure Einstein didn't take this much time to craving. This moment will be inserted into the annals of scientific history. And I think we all know how painful that can be is either moose of the series the same character. He it's what he gets fried by the computer, I guess does not die. I've seen all four. Any? So he's the only thing start coughing into the movie in overboard. That's a me only thing that connects these four this answer. Josh. Radio. I wrote down guacamole radio asset giving this guy so much airtime air jive. Oh, he looking for date for the prom. I imagine he's getting older and that actually makes it more. Yeah. That's what I was gonna PO what is the span of time over which these four movies exists. Like how old is he at the end of this series? I will tell you if you don't have it handy. That's okay. But I'm picturing him being like a thirty seven year old, dude guys. We gotta get outta here. This is crazy. This problems out of control. Then you still has all the burns from the computer. Einstein posters. He tries to hack into prong. Did anyone understand how they were tallying the votes through fillet show? Like if you were if you're prom attendee. How do you vote on voted on America's funniest home videos? By the way, that computer was the best computer normally like in these movies. It's like an advanced computer that looked like printshop nineteen eighty six. There was nothing advanced about anything there like an Apple computer. Yeah. I liked it. They didn't go all out on that. And then she you try six kills him with the computer what the fuck was her power. What could it could not she do? But she's I've been in the same room. She's like she's like that guy in that movie. Like shocker like, she can just go through outlets and find any outlet in town do anything. She is she set up. Very well. I felt really I my favorite character whose whose name there's so much by favorite. Character was the the woman with Robert Smith from the curious hair. He was making the giant head. By the way that giant hand. Ben later comes out of Vicki's chest. But my question was why is it this movie about her? Better movies Regmi. She's like is. She's okay. Go ahead. This scene in the bathroom. I wanted to her my academy. Do actually not funny. I very fairly looked at it and said, this is good work. It was good. This is really not. I'm like, it is a good buck in moment. Beautiful. It was beautiful shot that slowly crept like. And then when that lady dies, it was crazy because they almost cut her head off with this fucking thing. The. Don't know that it looks like they're gonna chopper head up with paper cutter. Right. They don't the cloak goes up and hangs her event. What are you talking about? It's thick seated and strangling her way the cloak. Why throw her out the window best part? Then is the next cut is them talking about how she killed her show. Self then through. What is what does she was pregnant? She had to kill herself twelve. That's terror. But I will say. I regret it to. But that's what the Canadian medical examiner would probably. No medical examiner. There's not even a little bit of detective work. So many dead bodies strewn about this high school. What? Squished in the locker any talk about. Justice for her this. She like homecare release says that the end of the movie the Cup litter is I don't know what we got here. Something strange. That's about the level of because the other part is why is the Cape hiding its tracks. Like if she just was why does it make it look like suicide your Cape your magic. Okay. You can't be arrested Cape. They didn't even cancel broad. People got killed others seven burgers school over the last week. Should we cancel fuck? It just go at least they say something they go. It's kind of sad. It's weird. It's anyway with her dust, nobody goes kinda strain walkers crusher like that. That was weird. It's some fourth of nature made her into the meat grinder. I mean. Prawns happening and everybody by the way that they could Terminator seen in. That was amazing that like I mean, so Mary Lou is back for vengeance. In Vicki's body, which is interesting because Vicki is I think they're trying to paint Vicki as being a very like pure virginal character. And then Mary Lou gets inter I like the voice you put on when you say, you're Virgina character repertoire voice. Yeah. Guys. Vicky. My parents eat oatmeal in the morning. Please. Please Photoshop hall head to make it Vicki's body. Already. Did it, bro? Masturbate into it. All. I'm still shocked by your baby comment. I I it's a bad joke. But the best job I've ever said. It's amazing. It's going to stay with me all might be your comedy. It's gonna take me a while to get over that the the meat slushy that she creates out of that locker. I mean, it's such a weird thing 'cause she's seducing her best friend, and I think actually played it pretty. That thing again, all the actors in good. That she's like, okay. Yeah. Sorry fought. And then like Vicki's, let's make out. Wait what's going on? Much weirder. Is that Vicky isn't exactly like let's make out. She just starts. I she kisses her nose. Then she kisses her forehead, then she kisses her cheek. She's like around the around the base in history. Heck's, very friendly. I also don't like it's it's very fun. Interested friend gets buck in terrified friend, actually, she's gonna kill her all she did was kiss her nose forehead old and she tickled her. Shit. I'm out what the motive. Those are okay. But five in a row you well. Wait, wait a minute. Wait. No. You guys bear in a shower together. Amount of light kids is in a shower as normal. Like, I don't get it. If Mike friend wants to give me four to five like his around my face. Well, we're both naked in a shower. What's the big war? Different girls. Okay. June, and I are in the shower three to four. Yeah. Look that's too much. But if not fuck me, I'm going to die. But she does die. She does run village. She run the Gresley why she felt like, hey, stop. She did she cuts out that part of it. Hey, the fuck is going to. I mean, she is fucking terrify. She Canadians Bush if maybe Bush, there's a lot of great living bushes in this movie that scene was supposed to be making. That was the actress choice was supposed to be in a towel. That was according to. Zero two thousand real fast. I was like, oh this is like bit. Sexual like this fuckers. Thank you, a whole set piece. That is the producers afterwards realizing they might have gone a little too aggressive on that. And then they told that story. She wanted she comfortable with that. For the movie, it was so fucked up that was like shocking and also the whole time I was like this kind of looks like my sister. And then. Why would you? Would you tell? That's private that's right for you. It doesn't make it less shameful. If you share it. Fatty your podcast. Bringing the how exactly did she die. By the media saw shoot. She gets quiz. How does she get squished? Oh, the lockers go score. The door cracks open and like a bunch of har- compact, human smoothie pours out of it. But I didn't understand what happening. Her powers. Oh, well, that's just mysterious powers are all the powers. But I think both lockers what I imagined to happen in there was that both locks lockers punctured her head. Then and then all of her organs came out through the slots. I would like. There to be just like you to record tracks for horror movies that it's just a description of what you think is happening. So now, she's using some sort of magical. The thing that I thought that was a real missed opportunity, and this movie was that it was not a nineteen fifties style prom. I thought that could be a fun throwback. They made it like a neon a dangerous neon prom 'cause people get like bolted with the neon early by Neo. It's it's it is total eclipse of the heart. First, I this movie or that video. Can we go? Shit. It's hard to understand what Mary Lou wants because issue coming back to just to just regain her crown. And why does she come back? Now, all these years later is it just because someone opened that trunk and if she told over the Trump, Trump just opened Bonnie Tyler was first with total eclipse. She was on her. She just waiting for someone to go down there. Do it. But then the kiss Josie wants a kiss from the boyfriend point. I wrote is this a Christian movie. To suspect that I was like. Yeah. Values are the thing that are somehow connecting all this. 'cause there's the prese at one point. He's doing an extra two nobody. Oh, yeah. Home this stuff from the exorcist just a lowest alone in a room. But I thought he would want. I thought that the movie could be better if he wanted her back. That's my love I want her back, and he was like, but weirdly, she wants to be back with the principal or she kisses him that she though, I mean, I guess who. The movie Mary Lou the trunk. So here's the thing early on early on the pre says she's gonna come back and wants to possess your body. That's what she says to Billy. Wants to possess Billy's body. But I still don't understand. Why why did she do that right away? Like why go through took her life? And so she's like, I gotta take his life. But she see I would say she seems to want. I don't know why she's chosen Vicky exactly unless is to get again to be prom Queen. If that is she's not popular why not pick the girl who's for it to be quick and black and red dress. Very very intimidated girl. Girl, girl was very intimidated by this. Speech. Movies. Keyboard getting a blowjob, and it's so clearly like the nerd who wrote the movie like fetish sizing their own like, he's writing kidding. What happened right? Dirty to just type it away. Fide elite is the growth the grossest thing about that scene. Somebody wants me the final scene afterwards where she comes back to her boyfriend is like, ooh, you let you use those Mance. Your breath is amazing. I didn't get that. Oh 'cause she's. Doc edible for she blew. That's what we do Canadian blow job jobs. We meant up afterwards up. My the man. The manitoba. Menthol. What am I favor it scenes in? This movie is Vicky is in bed, and she's look in a room. I think maybe she's looking at the paint the picture she's drawn, and and she looks back, and it's a picture of Mary Lou now, and it's all different like, it's a different picture. And it's meant to be like. Moment. And I was like this is corny as fuck. But I still am obsessed with what these people are doing everything they're doing is exit. Well, rocking horse was the craziest thing in the walking hung the rocky horses is that whole sequence was gone. Everybody is so horny movie. Oh, horny rocking horse. I mean that more like. Scare you Mun is you've looking demon. I feel like some collector owns that rocking horse, but that tongue and then she caressed the ton at one point. Yes, she definitely gives the tongue hands up. Joke that but years it's just slightly off. Like a rocking horse possess. Can't come get you. It can only just like. Rock back and forth in the corner of the room. It's like unless you go to it. Pretty I also thought it was not consistent with the character of the mother that she refuses to buy her new prom dress yet, she buys her Jain Norma's rocking horse carousel horse. She knew. Expensive, then strong dress that that rocking horse is. I would say conservatively thirty six hundred dollars. Part of the Iraqi war was a part of the hundred thousand dollar re-shoots because when they were shooting the movie mentioned it earlier it was called like the haunting of Hamilton high and then city on -tario, and then the original producer of prom night said well, we gotta buy this movie making the problem that they reshot over half of it change the title to make it a sequel, and and they spent one hundred thousand dollars added that scene in particular and the writer of the movie did a lot of the directing any called west crave. And he said how what's the best thing that you teen horror movie in west crave and said give them a scare give them a hard on and send them home. And. Yeah. So. The reshoot scenes were the the the locker room scene, the rocking horse seen and the Chuck aboard world pool, by the way, great that was a great looking effect. Like, a great practical effect the best seen. What was what he'd doctors son out with his shoe? So funny. Appeaser yo jazz. How are you? Sound literally was just. And he went flying when he came back into the movie he was so brood of. But the sound effect was literally like. Could fit in the head twice in a row too. Like, hey, what's up? There's a scene where the teacher right before the dude blows was it the dude or was it. The teacher who burns his genitals on those that feature. Like homes or but in a class, but also walks behind this kid and hits him so hard on the back of the head, and they put the bigger sound effect on that. And and the other kid is almost dead. Michael are inside did it with like as though that's a thing. He does it's time to do the old shoe to the hip to just sit down worry. Oh, right. Keep yourself with these positions. Three times. Kid has been multiple concussed in the course of the movie every time at Craig or Craig teeth. I don't know. No, I don't remember name. Billy is talking about. Becky, the whole I. Another question. Anybody noticed Jain Norma's jugs of milk? Oh, I did. I wrote down. Yeah. What the fuck is that how much milk drinking re people, and it's just massive jug. I didn't notice they're eating their oatmeal in the beginning. A giant that might be a Canadian. Jokes aside. We it was paid for by the Dairy Board of Hannah they weren't bags of milk, which we do also use in Canada. We don't mind the meat such as long as they can get a container Milkin, very happy. The there. Well, then let's talk about the end the end, Mary Lou literally inside of Vicky. Spoiler alert. Yeah. Not expect that I let him session was what we were going for. But no, no. There's a person in there versity wearing her dress from slow the perfect. At prom in her prom dress and Mary Lou exits her body in a Brown dress but comes out in the larva state like she evolves into nineteen fifties. It's so weird movie. Make so many fucking weird choices it does everything like it has like telekinesis, and it has like electroshock Gersh. It has monster out of someone your times when there are other hands trying to attack Vicky like when she's on the bed. There's all over her whose hands are the Mary, Louise. What what was the scare there that she's being tight? Don't know is Mary Lou the horse every lose talking the horse. And why and why is Mary Lou riding backwards on the chalkboard? Like her. Yeah. Forwards where she is. That's so weird. I know. But that's what we're. A weird. No, no there. That's what I'm saying. When they're what? I mean. They're eating. There are no explainers. They just do everything. And nobody ever says what the rules are this movie. It every way there's also one of my favorite parts is when the priest goes to Billy's house, he giant book to read like some rules of the church. What book is that? Probably the. I'm gonna just throw this out there. The religious the pre bra maybe the bible. Wide maybe eighty bible the Canadian bible, the Saint gourd bible addition. Mike. He's also wearing these weird shirts. These weird shirts. It's like some of the black and has a little white collar like what style is that for the brief. I couldn't figure out. Okay. So Vicki is named prom Queen. Right. She comes up. Now. She is fully Mary Lou at this point Louise taking over her body. Okay. So she's being crowned prom Queen Michael Ironsides back up on the catwalk. This time he's got a gun. He's back to the old cat law. Would that do burner? Curls Trump night for this cat law. The first time it was a villainous thing. And now, I think I'm the hero unclear wanna keep fighting by. So this cat walk over. He shoots. Vicky Vicky goes down. Okay. She's shot in the chest. She is on the ground. Mary. Lou Exeter body, like chest Burster like alien style. Right. Okay. The whole rest of the movie unfolds. Michael kid is by the truck. Again, the trunk is like vibrated. He opens up the trunk and Vicki emerges O'Kane wet as wear. The Shire world shot board war to me like that in from vagina. I wrote literally what I wrote I also bathroom from the beginning. Dirty. When was she ever wearing this top? When when did this come in like while we were waiting to see that green prom dress, which we never saw their shops in that weird stranger things. And then I wrote goop. Your doctor? Your wife must be very happy kids. I. Just want to just take badge. It'll goop. That's a real. Did she comes out in the weird shirt that we haven't seen? She she. She I have a whole other thing that I want to bring up. Did you guys notice that she were courts records, the outgoing message before she leaves to go murder? If you wanna hear. Speaking. Sorry. I can't come to the phone right now. But I'm busy at prom places to go. Kill don't bother message picky doesn't live here anymore. She is fucking thorough. She's very she's so thorough that you even goes to the DMV to get a license plates or the car. She made. Yeah. And that takes six weeks, so ordered conservatively this plane along dance with that. I was like I didn't think of foresight. Yes. Thing about the lightest does not Mary Lou. It's also ever seen the movie Lou to not I guess the sequel of her so maybe. From night to. Yeah. It's not Mary. Oh, this is that. But the guy is Mary Lou. So I guess maybe like it'd be really funny like, hey, someone leave their lights on Mary Lou to that's me. Yeah. Did anybody think that would she did show up with the short that? We've never seen. And now, we're you know, the boyfriend is wondering is this Mary Lou. Or is this Vicki, and we're as an audience we're asking the same question. Right. What is the test? How many sugars do you take on your call? That's so folk Yulia that's the death. I was that said I literally. That was three hours ago is it really longtime, gene, very even ago. The waiter in that diner seem anybody remembers. But he had sunglasses on also like with them are sitting this way. And instead of like going around to drop off like the stuff at the table. He's in and drops off a coffee from the side in this way. So I did remember that. Saying that maybe they were like we need to wait forever to seed, wait or do something. So stupid. No, one will not forget this moment. Our show is also brought to you by our friends at get ready for people. They are black tux. Here's the deal. Okay. What can have any problems? But the groom's look shouldn't be one was that. It's a reference to Jay z song that just came out. I'm pretty sure that song just came out. That's how topical this ad is no seriously people. What about black talks as they are helping you look your best? Okay. We all know that buying clothing is expensive, especially event clothing. I mean, and sadly, there are no real options out there for dudes or people who want to wear suits tuxedos. You don't have to do you just want to wear tux her suit? There's no options out. There are black tux comes in. They have all these amazing stylish tuxes that you can pick from suits that look great. You try them on you can try them on at your house. Your own comfort of your bedroom, or you can go to one of their many showrooms across the country tried on. This looks good. I like this. Then you send it back to them. And then a couple days before your vet. They said back to you tried on say up, and you go you look stylish fuck, and then you send that shit back. And you never have to look at it. Again. It's the best way to go. Because every event you go to you can look great when you're there. They have over five thousand five star reviews, you won't find a better rental experience or designs like this anywhere else online. Okay. I'm talking quality. I'm not talking one of those tuxes that are sprayed with like Drik har- Noir. Okay. This is high quality shit. Okay. Look good feel good. Try it on before. So you don't get like they're like, oh, no. It doesn't look good. I ordered it months ago. What am I gonna do? I guess I'll wear this other jacket that I got from Macy's one. I was eighteen for my communion or my bar mitzvah. No, no, no the time. Come for you to look good. So what your suit or tuxedo? Black ducks com. Enjoy twenty dollars off with the code bonkers at twenty dollars off the code bonkers. That's black tux dot com. Code bonkers for twenty dollars off your purchase. Oh my God. Well, let's go out to the audience and see what kind of questions that. You guys have anything that? We might have not talked about already or things that you have questions about. And you know, because the fifties were so like shunned in this film like when someone said swell they were like sent packing. I want you to ask your question and present yourself in the most fifties way imaginable. So pretend you're in the fifties say your name and your question in the most fifty as possible. Here we go. Golly. Gee, real occurs. When the dad was waking up from a dream was married. Lou raping the son in the car. What was that? All right. My wife turned to me and said this look like Titanic in that. I do have the scene we could watch it. It is up there. We can kind of examine it if you want see here. With you. She is fucking him in the. Or would when she goes crazy. I was like, whoa. Whoa. I would I would like it. If you are just here with someone that you're gonna have sex later later without telling your partner that you're going to just like get up and screaming their face. That's. Doc. Scream it as long as you can right in their stupid face. We're going to see relationship works out. This actress is. Again, her your Oscar. Serious Duke is a member when she's in the mirror reflected, and it's like when Vicky realizes for the first time and she puts on lipstick. And then she does something else that that's like a. Where Joe's our hair, which is an obvious choice. And then she just kind of looked so she's gorgeous looking in this mirror and out of nowhere. She just goes. Yeah. Those are bangs up. I lost my shit. I said what an interesting choice. Not a choice. I would have ever made. And she commits. Yes, she's great again. It's I these all these actors are doing good stuff directed. Well. But I do wonder also in that scene. Just go back for one moment. He is dreaming about his son getting pegged by Mary Lou. But that means his brain bleed like these starts bleeding out of his own head. So the tag is. Like, that's the most. Bleeding from the top which means that his brain is coming out of its skull from the. So upsetting serve most of these way. Ever your name your question? My name is Michael Michael motorcycle. And so I'm kind of going off of Seth this thing Christian. What about the Christian theme, but more of anti drinking alcohol on prom night? The so we have at the big inning. Obviously, Mary Lou dies after drinking excessively, then we have the scene with the guy who's tabulating votes for prom night. And when he's asked what he's going to do on prom. He says I'm going to get drunk. I'm gonna throw up in the can it's my duty. I'm a teenager. And then also at the end the popular girl when she is dancing. She is asked what do you? What are you doing? It seems like you're drunk, and he's like this guy talks in this weird eastern European accent? He's like I trying I get drunk. So what's deprived? I literally felt that was telling me was those first part. When that happened. That's kind of an accent. I was using right now. So you got a coq freestyle hat and sunglass from coke. Why don't we? Coca Cola freestyle, the coolest Coca Cola machine I've ever seen. What are we doing? Are we supporting Coca Cola freestyle just the cool ass machine with a hundred different flavors soda now? Sponsor of the show. What's happening right now. I got literally sent four boxes of this at my house. I had no idea what to do with. Oh, we're way tweeted. I know tweeted, I like Coca Cola freestyle machine is like we're coming for you. What I got boxes and my kids are like what are in the boxes. I'm like, you're not going to like it. And now my kids were Coca Cola free stuff. Glasses glasses. The length is in those are not UV protect gotta stop the. Children where cheap flimsy coke glasses. Hey, man, they see all the colors coke rainbow at these babies. Ma'am. Your name your question and the fifties way, what's the hap steady? Oh, my name's Carla. I just wanted to know why Vicki's mother was she hated her boyfriend so much. He seemed like a lovely guy. Yeah. What she heard like things that mother. What was her problem because it seemed like they both want to go to college. But they seem the most milk toasts people of all time follow that families fucked. We do. I think though that like the mother was I mean, so crazy strict, and whatever, but she seems to be acting as if she had Mary Lou for a daughter verses? Yeah. Vicki yes. If he totally completely a normal high school kid who seems to be doing fine whatever like other than having a boyfriend who rides a motorcycle. But who is otherwise lovely kid? He's looking nerd to me. She just seemed like really hard on it. But then that's that's to get to the point of like, that's what made I felt like I feel terrible. I don't know the woman's name who played Vicky. She gets to be both Vicky, and Mary Lou and is amazing in both capacities. And that's why I felt like you should give her your. I know. I know. I think now looking back. I did not get this while I was watching the film. But now looking back, I think I know why the mother hates her so much. This because the dad wants to Faulk dad wanted to fuck her. And maybe Mary Lou was like bringing that to the surface. He's like, I know I'm just using this body as a vessel, but I'm gonna fix Dan just going to bring this. You wanna fuck your daughter thing to the surface, by the way, they're going to kill all of fuckers this. Get there. The secret all over again is. Yeah. We just did. It's just like it is all infants all the time. It's deeply unsettling thing. Would only have been made better. If when they the mother caught them making out she was like, I knew it. Then I'd be like, I get it. Jason you'll be very excited. Why there is a baby here tonight baby baby. What flavor? She's gorgeous based doing great. There's been a baby here the whole time. Yes, I had to take her out at the beginning. But she's fine. Now, Amy, I hope no one slips me an aspirin and my coke at the dance. And I was wondering if you have any information on the cinematographer. There was a lot of up the nose shots that I had never seen before. Interesting. I don't I don't I looked up the DP because I actually thought it would be looked bad. Honestly, he did not shoot a lot of other movies. Fortunately, I have hired him to do my next film. I was a fad. He's Canadian got got to support his. See later alligator. Waiting for that? My name's Colleen, and I have well two things one is to talk about the really empowering posture. Stand dances that we saw in the Terminator Bush scene and with Mary Lou. And her the way she stood. I felt like I own my power when I watched that. And I feel like it changed. So. I love it. Did you feel that too? I definitely did. There's this shot where he's up on the catwalk up there with his gun looking to shoot her and Vicki slush. Mary Lou is standing with her legs. Just totally like power v position. It's so unsettling and strange, but also very powerful tail. And there was I will say there was something about Vicky being naked in the locker seeing that felt more like she was threatening. She was much more scary obsessing league week it because it wasn't like ooh, this is shot to sexualize her necessarily. It was more like home. I god. She's naked. And she's it felt like sorry. Go ahead. No, go ahead. If felt like to me like that's really did feel like that's her possession. Because I don't think we would see this person naked otherwise in this movie, it it only because she's possessed by this. Murder is person. And to your point. I think that's why our friend was so scared because it was so out of character for her to be naked like that. I mean, I don't give gentle. Knows. By the way, there will be a kissing booth outside of Largo on the way out. We will be. What for? Obviously we had about this with people out there with a different opinion is now time for second opinions. Easy as a prop. Tell me something Paul. Europe Pinon about this film way. We need more. Why don't you check on some online troll where? Well. Gama's? It was amazing all my God. One of the best one of the best. Hello mary. Lou Brown to these second opinions from Amazon dot com. These are all five star reviews. This by K are after seeing this. Oh, gee when it came out in the eighties. I'm watching it again in twenty seventeen and totally seeing Mary Lou was a feminist, but she's the bad guy. Too bad. Am I f you know, I saw her. They had the hero back in the day. Without understanding why liked her now get married lose FU purpose. But with more dimension five stars. I don't know why the IMF you. I read that a couple of times at home. I couldn't get it. Fucked up for then. Yeah. All right. No, no, Brandon L Harlow gave this five stars. And just says this film is so eighty so great. I love it. When the blonde girl seduces dad, and then throws mom through the front door. When she uses the lockers squish that other girls five stars title catchy tunes. And then fucked. Worse. Oh, the web is review. And this one is just from an Amazon customer. It's entitled five stars in their view is one word thick. Stars. That was written. That was written in twenty eighteen. Mary Lou from two came out in nineteen eighty seven. The tag lines were an old flame returns nineteen fifty seven Mary. Lou Maloney went up in flames. Now, she's back and she's burning mad. And then the budget was two million dollars the opening weekend was nine hundred thousand dollars and it made two point six million. It was it was made us back the top three films of nineteen eighty-seven three minute a baby fatal attraction and Beverly Hills cop to this movie came in one hundred thirty seventh out of all the movies nineteen eighty seven. It was number three in Canada. However, if beat the garbage pail kids movie that we did on this podcast, and it was beaten by the running man jobs for the revenge masters universe and over the top. And. Yeah, that is that in the director or the writer put himself in the movie as small cameo. He's the one who says to the evil girl in the movie. What do you think about that, Victoria that you remember that classic scene? Like, she do what do you think about that, Victoria, no way really all my virginal demure girl. What do you think of that? What do you think of that? Well, that was any any closing thoughts on name thoughts about clothing throughout the movie pants. Good dope. It is great. I really loved all of the period stuff both fifties. And what was then president the eighties was broaches. Didn't like that such blowzy tops such so many pleats in all the pants, but the Robertson looking girl is a she's like pasta movie. She is my hero. I love our April herald put it out the she also kinda shares a similarity with Joan cusak from working girl. I thought it was joked Husak we're and I was like it doesn't add up. She had a joke. Like. Hair is amazing somebody. Oh, it's amazing here. Look, not just the girls, but the men have very few sequels. The here is a teacher with a tight comb over but as Bob at the lake. I didn't understand it. This was thin and covering baldness. But this was in thicky. And like blow dry. Impressive. Oh, yeah. Let's go down the line. Jason would you recommend million per cent? This is a home of fucking run movie and honest to God, we have barely touched it. There's so much going on in this nonsense. That I genuinely believe if you like this podcast, you will enjoy watching this movie. Yes, I agree. I it's so much fun. I mean when and we haven't here's the things we haven't discussed the difference between the treasure chest and the grave site. Oh, yeah. What is that? What that is who's wear and what spirits are where and what articles of clothing or wear all Mr.. But it's so much fun. One hundred percent. Yes. And seth. I agree. Like it started a little bit. It starts great. And then it's kind of a long movie. And there was a point where I was like, oh, it's kind of boring, and then I was just like, oh, no. This just went crazy like totally crazy for the rest of from the minute. She arrives in the locker room naked the end is like why crazy if y just naked letters. I was just like this is so day kit. I didn't expect so naked for so long so long so naked. She's so young very also crazy. Yeah. It was like I it was it was truly shocking and unpredictable has not easy to find. That's the thing up until that point the movie is very predictable. It's confusing at times, but it's not very it's very predictable. And then at that point. You're like, oh what? How does this work? This is crazy. Yeah. I agree. I like in the beginning of my hope we have enough to talk about for this. Oh, we've got plenty. Shirley, what do you think? Oh, yes. For sure. Yeah. I agree. I mean, I think all across the board. This is a great movie to watch. It was hard to find in the beginning. But you can find it on all the all the places, especially you too ridiculous streaming service that you said you like, oh, boo. Tubby tummy. Is that Jeffrey Katzenberg new? I said that I sit that out. And I have a sneaking suspicion that there's someone who likes podcast who works at Amazon because I said that out, and then we have movie and all of a sudden it was on Amazon prime. Oh, yeah. I watch. Maybe I was a little bit. I was nervous that we couldn't find it for a bit. And then we found it. I was introduced to tubby this movie longshot. I would say four of us are in it. But you guys are primarily. Look for my guy. Most the audience is in it too. The baby baby. You guys are all in this movie. Wow. Okay. Wow. Okay. Cool. Nice to see so many familiar faces. So many of our friends Papa or other further. Brought haulers. Hey me. This is fine. Rando? Parks Godley dollars. She's in. Yeah. God all it it all in the movie movie. Oh, no. We're good. Are you still? Are you still? We're still casting you still casting their new other parts. Yeah. That's how it works. Yeah. All right. All right. I've love to give you my tape. Title favorite seed, go. See the booby pick your favorite seat that said to us. I will transcribe one of the scenes, maybe we'll replace you with it. Great great. What do what we tell? Everybody about it. I mean, I've I've seen the movie, and it's so incredibly funny, and romantic and great I feel like it's just it's a really great movie. And you guys are all Grayton it. Thank you so much. Yeah. You kind of have to say that. But. But it actually is good. So that's nice. Yeah. Straight amazing cast. Everyone. You know, what I like about it? You can I say what I like about it. It doesn't like try to cater to like an audience like John wig three like. People just take original feet. They're just like, yeah. They're just like they're not like you're not gonna dump down the cast, which reminds me of something very quickly. You'll be able to not buy a ticket to long shot, but by ticket to John wick three. The same studio. Buddy goes to Saint. Long-shot out right now at theaters it's funny. It's romantic, it's great. It's starring all these people on state set for Jason. And then. But feel bad about those. Jason and John wick three three. He's got his poster for fuck sake. Okay. I feel better. Now, I don't feel bad. Like, I missed out on this shoot with friends like a funny who move. Don't feel badly. Halle berry. You're really good friends HP. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Thank you all for coming out tonight. Thank you. That's it everybody that is our show live from Largo. Make sure you head to see longshot June is fantastic in it. It's such a good. Good movie. Also wanna let you know if you have not sign up for our mailing list. Please do it. Just go to HDTV 'em, info dot com. And if you wanna come out to LA and see us live at the will turn you can we'll be doing a big show there on July thirteenth. Tickets are still available. You can go to HD GM info dot com for the link to get tickets, and we'll be sending more announcements as the time comes, and I also want to let you guys know we have amazing t shirts in our store if you liked do company googling for scientific research in the secret episode. We gotta shirt for that. Do we have a shirt for fryer? Fuck. Yeah. We got a shirt for that. We got plenty of shirts. All based on things in recent podcasts. We're trying to new difference ahead the public dot com. Stores such HDTV and check out what's going on there. Always a sale there so much great stuff. A big thanks to Devon who recorded this in a brand new setup. Everyone sounding so good alive show for the first time, we're really killing it, Cody who produces this show for us at ear wolf everybody at your wolf, but specifically to people who don't work at your wolf, April Halley for finding our movies and pulling our clips you can find more of her work at movie bitches Nate, Kylie who I just love. He does all of our research. He calls through the five star reviews. He's a monster. And he's a brand new dead. Congratulations nates. And of course, Kyle Waldron is designing some of our favorite, funniest Instagram. Images. Such a great guy follow us on Facebook. And Instagram and Twitter. We love to follow. We love to keep the conversation going. And if you've missed anything from this episode, you feel like we didn't cover something very specific in. Hello, Mary, Lou prom night too. Well, the conversation continues next week on our mini episode. Make sure you give me a call. Six one nine AS K that six nine Paul ask. And we could talk about anything in your life. We can talk about the movie or call and tell me your problems, we've been dealing with problems successfully for quite some time now, and I think I'm helping a lot of people. So give me a call. We'll talk to you on our mini episode next week. And we'll also tell you what's coming up next. Thank you for listening to the show. Thank you to Seth Rogan. Charlie's Farren Jason men's because in June. Diane Rayfield, we will see you next time on the pod. Bye. For now. Welcome to getting curious Jonathan Ben Nass, you guys I'm so excited to introduce you to this podcast. It's been my little baby idea for a while. Now, this is going to be a really fun. Look at things I find curious whether it's a menstrual Cup. It might be the Romanov family at might be fracking could be Carly theory. No, I don't even know who knows it's going to be whatever I think is interesting. We're going to be bringing in content experts. I'm going to be learning the things it's only gonna take about thirty minutes, freed expand your baby brain's with me and have a super fun time. So I can't wait to see you on getting curious. Don't real natch in q.

Mary Lou Vicky Vicky Vicki Billy respect Michael Michael Dr. That principal Canada Michael Ironside Mike squarespace Jason Google president and CEO Seth Rogan Spotify Mary California Cape
The Last Frontier | Chapter 11

Boomtown

52:49 min | 1 year ago

The Last Frontier | Chapter 11

"Support comes from ramblers sparkling water. The one and only Texas limestone filtered sparkling water. Rambler is a proud supporter of Texas parks. Wildlife Foundation helping to conserve Texas lands and waters for future generations visit ramblers sparkling water dot com to find a six pack near You. Hashtag get rambling okay. The the light detracting from and Yeltsin shape colour. It's like Kinda gets ready to trade at knock. I'm standing in a moonlit pasture on a ranch outside of Marfa Texas. It's nearly midnight. In the middle of July I'm squinting into the darkness looking at well. I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking at his Alanon. That's a car coming from out find. That's where that's Mike. Surely He's giving me and a few friends has personal or of the famous Marfa Lights for the uninitiated folks have been observing strange glowing orbs in this area since the eighteen hundreds though there are theories ranging from the scientific to the supernatural. No one knows exactly what they are. These mystery lights are just wanted the mini features of this area of West Texas. That makes it different. And when we're sitting right here and a week ago one flew. I was sitting right by the front of my truck and then flew right to to us to the front of my truck went over the hood to the windshield. The windshield out the back over the car that was parked by us. Then it disappeared. If I'd known it was coming I could lactic McCain. There's a lot more than strange lights that distinguish this region of West Texas known as the Trans Pages or the big bend. It lies just to the south of the Permian Basin and while much of the Permian is flat as a sheet cake. The Big Ben country is marked by striking mountain ranges. The break-up the Horizon Big Sky in Grassy plains the red cliffs of the Davis Mountains Markets Northern Boundary while the thin brown ribbon of the Rio Guerande forms it southern border with Mexico. And it's definitely moving. It's like dude. It's quite a bit. That's no and this rivalry over. Y'All see that really really Yeah Okay Raptors read. Yes that is. That's the Big Daddy. That's the Big Daddy. The big the big daddy named Barbara. Okay can be named say. Why can't he be named Barbara? Now you're absolutely right. Like the Permian Basin. This region relies on the land for much of its economy. But they're not drilling for oil and gas here. The beauty and solitude is the draw. There's the hikers at big been National Park Artists Marfa Stargazers and Fort Davis Rodeo cowboys and Alpine honeymooners and Marathan adventures enter Lingua and hunters on the sprawling ranch is scattered throughout this wide. Open country at night. There's nothing but velvety black sky. Overhead and the occasional Phantom orb. Here there are no pump. Jacks no flares no wind turbines at least not yet. I'm Chris Wallace. And this is Boon town in our final episode. We spend some time exploring the rugged big been region of Far West. Texas wildcatters have poked around for oil and gas in this area before but the record breaking production and the Permian Basin has push companies to explore areas further out in a big fine near the Davis. Mountains has brought the boom to the big vins doorstep for the first time we talk with those who are grappling with how to make a living and still keep the beauty of the big bend intact. This is episode eleven the last frontier. So here's some horses for you to look at their winter coat on don't they? They do and and like these these particular three here. Some older horses. So they're not gonNA quiet look pretty to the eye but they have been helping me make a living for a long time. That's Craig Carter. He's introducing me to some of his horses that have been featured in films and TV. We're on his ranch. Deep in the heart of the big bend country over twenty miles from the nearest small town. Names you And Rico is twenty. Nine years old retired it was in the remake of the Alamo lots of commercials. Cisco if you go and he's probably been in thirty pictures. Tread Carter is a horseman though he's hesitant to call himself that for Craig and others like him. The term carries an almost spiritual heft a title that has to be earned but Craig's modest earnings. He spent most of his fifty seven years making a living on horseback and his skills have made him a sought after animal ringler for Hollywood productions and then again a bunch out here that we're in twelve strong as far as something recent no country for old men. Oh the remake of the magnificent seven. Most of these most of these were in the whole we put together two hundred fifty head of horses for that show. It was absolutely crazy. Mind Boggling. Last year of these Craig's spent seven months away from his family working on movie sets in Virginia elsewhere around the country. I've got some horses that That were born in Mexico. And they're tough not always real big and not beautiful confirmation Rico on his best day would be left out of a horse show in our great state of Texas but when it comes to traversing this rough country and and as I say pretty is pretty does. When I shook Craig's hand the first time I met him earlier that morning I noticed he had the same calloused hands as a roughneck when we stepped inside his home to talk he removed a sweat stained silver belly hat and didn't put it back on until he stepped out. Later to pee off the Front Porch Craig was raised in the big bend his routes. They're run deep. His Mom's side of the family were among the first white settlers in the region over a century ago. Back when the region's population was largely made up of Mexican immigrants who worked at QUICKSILVER MINDS. Craig's family settled in the basin of the Cheetah's mountains near the center of Big Bend National Park. The carters ran the only horse riding outfit in the park. Craig took to the work. Even as a young boy when he was twelve and faced with the prospect of spending six hours shuttling back and forth to the nearest middle school. He convinced his parents to let him home school so he could spend more time riding. Show back then. I was horseback every day. You know of the parkway eleven hundred square miles so I felt that was my backyard and then we had the family history there so I would go visit places that I'd heard stories about from Ansett new my great grandparents so the the the the whole parks is phenomenal. There's some oasis out in the desert or not a lot. A lot of them are not written about known about the budget spectacular classes based on the records his dad kept Craig estimates. He's ridden the South Rim trail through the mountains. Some seven hundred times the the chisels basin is like an island of of mountains jutting up surrounded by desert. It's undescribable is spectacular. The South Rim is seventy six seventy eight hundred feet and it breaks off and you can see hundred twelve miles of the Rio Grande making the Big Ben on a clear day. They can see two hundred sixty miles in the distance Our horse left from the Chitose Base. And that about five thousand feet in the first three and a half miles. We climbed eighteen hundred feet is. It's a drastic for a kid who loved riding horses and was fascinated. By the Western novels of Louis l'amour the setting was practically heaven. The surrounding desert is one of the most ecologically diverse regions in North America. Craig would spot deer mountain lines. Black bears coyotes. Foxes Bob Cats in plenty of rattlesnakes. There are people too though they were spread out and relatively few about one person for every square mile You know as a kid growing up out here. I drive sixty eighty miles just to go find a a party you know. What were the parties? Like out of curiosity. I can remember two hundred people being at the park entrance on the west side of cars. All parked got together. Pl- jam session and hanging out in the desert. We'd all go home. We had work. Yeah Bonfires. Somebody's Little Caserta. You know not not in the park. Nope no open fires there but truly late. This dancing in the dirt. While his mom gave him school lessons. Craig's Dad taught him acoustic guitar on weekends. Craig and his dad would drive over to the tourist hotspot of lettuce a tiny village on the banks of the Rio `Grande they'd start their Gig at noon and play country music for ten or twelve hour straight. Craig's love for Music Vinci grew as big as his passion for horses. He started dreaming about moving to Nashville to be a songwriter but not even in his wildest daydream could he have imagined his big break would end up coming from Switzerland. Yep One day while working at the family's dude ranch. He met a Swiss country singer. He's like George Strait of Europe. Wow what's his name George? Who'd agers Yuji almost rolls off? The tongue dislike George Strait Georgia flown in Nashville to record album and afterward he jumped in an RV and drove down to big bend. He came to ride horses at the park. And that's where he bumped into Craig. They quickly became friends and he wrote me a letter. A few months later Would you be interested in coming to play in Switzerland in August and I wrote so there would be no misunderstanding? I just wrote back. Hi George Thank you. August open so about seventy five trips later to to Europe of headcount of a career over there. Oh Craig did eventually move to. Nashville tries hand as a songwriter. The plan was to make some money so he could help his father who is still leading trail rides in the park by their own piece of land in West Texas in the mid nineties after years of scraping their savings together they finally managed to fulfil their dream of owning their own ranch. The name of the place when we came here was Buro flacco which means skinny dunking in the creek. That you crossed right before you turn. It comes through part of the north west of our on. Our property is called Spring Creek so we named the Ranch Spring Creek but I tell everybody is still a little bit flocco. Sometimes only a year and a half. After they bought the place. Craig's father passed away. Suddenly money got tight. Craig was still living in Nashville at the time but decided to return home to make things work financially and keep the land. Craig had to get creative. In addition to his work as a touring musician he acted in a couple of small commercials. He quickly realized that there was a lot more work behind the camera than in front of it. He guys first Gig as a Horse Wrangler on a movie called Dancer Texas. He's been working on movie sets with animals ever since the used to call him head wrangler. Now they're kind of gravitating to animal trainer animal coordinator but if I'm your animal coordinator and it's your show. I'm GONNA handle all the animals or all the reptiles or whatever so even though I'm not Alayan handler or don't work with bears. I know who to call to facilitate it for you. My boss Craig has figured out a way to make it work but like other landowners in the region. He still has to make tough decisions to keep afloat. Several years ago he was approached by major oil company looking to develop some leases on his land. And the way that we would get a letter asking if we'd be interested in talking and we we said No. Thank you not at this time. We didn't say no contact us left the door cracked and and they send you a letter saying that they think at least for this amount of mountain. It wasn't enough to make a difference within all of a sudden it turned into enough to make a difference so that's when we actually met with them and talk like I said it never did develop and come to pass but it's back to paying the bills the in in that regards. I don't judge people so harshly about what they might have on their place. Maybe they needed at the time. Maybe maybe they're not happy about the decision. But that's where I think. Respect Big Ben come in respect. Big Ben is an initiative launched in two thousand nineteen with support from the Cynthia and George Mitchell Foundation. It was formed in part to give landowners access to research and legal support when they're approached by energy companies looking to develop on their land crag was approached by respect big Ben to join their stakeholders group. And so I was asked to come attend meeting with this group and was honored to go. Listen and my biggest positive thought about them. Doing this is that they're having the conversation where it leads and how it goes. It's going to be different situations for every situation that comes but I just love the fact that they're having the conversation about the small towns about the land about how how this might change that and what we could do how we could be smart here. The idea behind respect big Ben came from Mary Lou. Hastings Hi Mary Lou Hastings on the vice president of sustainability programs at the Cynthia George Mitchell Foundation in Austin Texas. She's worked for the Mitchell family in various roles for twenty four years. She started in the woodland's working on a sustainable communities project that George Mitchell funded along with the National Academy of Sciences. She met her husband Mitch while working there. Today Mary Lou run several programs at the Mitchell Foundation which focused on topics ranging from clean energy to water conservation and sustainable education but the respect big bend initiative is closest to her heart for one thing Mary Lou is from West Texas so I grew up in Midland. My Dad was a petroleum engineer. And we also have a family ranch in the panhandle and by grew up driving up and down. State Highway Three. Eighty five with my dad and my mom of course and as you know highway. Three eighty-five goes from the big bend way up North but it runs near Odessa right to our family ranch Mary. Lou and Mitch Spent Their Honeymoon Big Bend National Park in one of the cabins nestled in the basin of cheetos mountains were Craig Carter's family wants ran their dude ranch. It was December nineteen ninety eight an epic ice storm swept through the roads were closed and the power went out so they had to hole up in the room for four days eating by the light of a Coleman Leaner when we finally went down we went to Santillana Canyon that that overlook on the east side and my husband was an economist and he study water but specifically he did a lot of work he was doing a lot of work into time on the Rio Grande. He'd never seen the Rio Grande he was from Kansas and He did a lot of work in Latin America and Brazil. But he'd never been to the park before so the one and only place I got to take him. On our honeymoon was Santa Elena Canyon Flanking both sides of the Rio Guerande? The Kenyan is formed by sheer walls of pink and cream colored limestone rising up to fifteen hundred feet above the water. It's a place I know. Well my friends and I have spent days paddling through Santa Elena Canyon above you bighorn. Sheep scaled a steep walls. Canyon wrens glide like paper airplanes as you wind through the Canyon there hidden fern field valleys to explore and when the river bins the stony banks that have formed their make for ideal picnicker camping spots. It's a humbling experience at one of the most beautiful places. I've ever been for Mary Lou. The Canyon has become deeply significant. She and Mitch made regular trips to the national park and would often return to Santa Elena to admire the winding Rio. `Grande six years. After the honeymoon there Mary Lou found out she was pregnant with their first child but on the same day the couple got the best news of their life. They also received the worst. Mitch was diagnosed with Colon Cancer. Mary Lou gave birth to their daughter in June of two thousand five. Her husband died three weeks later before he passed. They settled on a name. They called their daughter Elena. After the Kenyan they had loved Was around this time that the shell boom took off impart thanks to the fracking. Innovations of her employer George Mitchell a decade later the boom had expanded into places that had never been developed before. The southern periphery of the Permian Basin. Right on the doorstep of the Big Ben Country and so my two world started colliding so I became very interested in asking the question. To what extent will there be development out here and if there is going to be development. What is it GONNA look like? And if it's GonNa look bad what do we do? Because landowners have and mineral owners have rights to develop their land and extract resources but are they fully informed about the impact that will have and what science can we provide them? What information can we provide them so that they're making the best possible decisions or arrangements that they can? An Texas is the only state in the country that produces oil and gas. That does not have what we call a surface in eastern surface damage protection for landowners. There's some requirements of things but In general when oil and Gas Company has done with piece of land. Then there's no obligation to restore that piece of land. But when landowners decide to lease their land they can negotiate with energy companies to develop the infrastructure in ways that will minimize damage to their property and when production stopped require them to restore land but even then a place. Like the Chihuahua. Desert takes an extremely long time to heal Mary. Lou points out that the impact on the land isn't limited to oil and gas solar requires a lot of acreage to produce energy on a commercial scale. It's not just that they come out and pulls in the ground and put a solar panel on it. They scrape the ground and level that they take out the vegetation and then there are certain impacts from that woman desert or any desert ecosystem is very slow to regrow hundreds of years sometimes publicly respect. Big Ben is not seeking any changes in policy. They're not even seeking any specific outcomes. Much of the energy develop in the region is still speculative but based on the research the group has funded West Texas is likely to be quote the most energy intensive area in the world for decades to come Mary Lou has seen the devastation in parts of the Permian and she knows a similar cycle has played out with booms all over the world. I've lived through it. Many people have lived through it and it's the legacy of what oil and gas firms do when they move in their Manak. They get depressed and they move out leaving a devastated town behind is part of the worst of the legacy of the industry and they don't just do it here they do it. Globally Mary. Lou is working hard to try and ensure that some of the mistakes she seen in the Permian aren't repeated in the TRANSPAC is region. She's not really optimistic about the future. Well I have a fourteen year old daughter and I held her tight and thank God help you and I'm not a climate crisis person but based on science we're way behind the curve and thirty years from now or forty years from now or however. Many years isn't good enough and I just don't think human nature is capable of that level of cooperation. I don't think we're smart enough to figure out the technology and I don't think we have enough money to deploy in ten years as someone who works on behalf of an organization that made its billions from fracking and natural gas. Mary Lou says that it's not their mission to stop energy from being developed in the region. But she does hope to at least protect certain beloved corners of the Big Bang. Every time I drive here driving into the park driving from the park to lingua and then back at night with a full moon it's mystical. It's haunting its majestic. It's not like any other place now that we're well past the start of the New Year. 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Why upstart is ranked number one in their category with over three hundred businesses on trust pilot and hurried up start dot com slash boomtown to find out. How low your upstart rate is checking? Your rate only takes a few minutes. That's upstart dot com slash boomtown. One recent Saturday morning I woke up early to meet with Coin Gibson. We met at Marfa public radio on the town's Main Street if I had to judge the book by its cover. I'd have pegged coin as a farmer. He wore rang. Lurs 's an insulated work jacket. His hair was clipped into a buzz cut and his face was ruddy from the sun. But coin is a scientist with a deep history oil and gas I was born in Midland Texas and the Permian Basin and have been I've lived everywhere in Texas. That has an air force. Base is one way to look at things. My family comes from oil and gas background Over the last Straw for generations. So it's been part of my life forever. Coin was also frank about the fact that he receives oil and gas royalties from his family's mineral rights though he's hoping to divest soon today coin is a member of a local group called the Big Ben Conservation Alliance as a young man coin went to work in the oil and gas industry like three generations of his family before him but one day in nineteen eighty two. Everything changed he was working a Gig in Wyoming at sour gas processing facility. Sour gas is a natural gas that contain significant amounts of hydrogen sulfide a poisonous gas. It smells like rotten eggs. It can be deadly. Even in small doses. One day coin was on his way to the facility when something struck him as odd. We're on a bus house sitting next to the site safety manager and it struck me as odd that there were cows where there shouldn't have been any cows and about every fifty to seventy five yards bamboo pole with a wind sock on it so. I asked the guy said what's this all that and he said well. If you ever see a down cow look at the wind sock and run upstream and because he said those cows are going to be down from us our gasoline so we use them like the Canary in the coal mine and that just it was some profound thing for me and we got to the site. I worked today out at the end of the day. I said I'm going home tomorrow. I'm done I left the industry that day. There is a small town nearby and he was haunted by the thought that something might happen to the folks living there by walked away from the industry itself. But I've stayed. I the sound strange but I followed that project pretty much on a weekly basis are over mind higher life to make sure that nothing was going wrong with that plant You know the the notion that that could happen just almost unbearable after leaving. Oil and gas coin got a job in the semiconductor industry working as an engineer. And since then he's helped run a few different tech companies about eight years ago. He moved to the Fort Davis area in Far West Texas today. He lives and works at a university research facility in the Davis Mountains just north of MARFA. The Davis Mountains are probably best known for being the home of the McDonald Observatory a world renowned astronomy centre with several powerful telescopes. The site was chosen for its spectacularly dark skies so. I live on top of the sixty seven hundred foot tall mountain. That's got the three hundred sixty degree view from horizon to horizon so my horizon distances ninety two and a half miles when he used to look north toward the Permian Basin. He'd seen nothing but natural dark sky today. I look out in that same direction over that same west to east rising and I see what looks like sunrise so we all know that the sun doesn't rise on the North Coin. I notice new hints of light on the horizon in two thousand twelve and no. This wasn't the famous Marfa Lights. He was curious so he started taking measurements of the sky's brightness. Then he dug deeper. I began to do research and I found no with National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Agency maintains a network of Polar orbiting satellites. That look down at the earth. They have what's called veers infrared imaging system on them. And so these are satellites in orbit. They look down at the ground and they can see in the infrared. They can see flares. And so you can. You can get a coordinate on the ground. You can spectrum analyze. What's coming from the white from those flares and you can tell the flare intensity its temperature. You can tell if it's a flare as opposed to exhaust stack from something else. Were Street light so you can clearly identify what this is. While mapping and analyzing the data he noticed a major uptick around two thousand fourteen the number of flares increased as did their duration. Flares aren't allowed to burn for more than ten consecutive days but companies can apply for extensions coin says the mini exceeded the ten day window. I would actually drive out to some of these sites and photographs and video record and we would send them to certain company executives. Say this appears to be a flare operating at your your pets I ki- would you like to comment on that? And they would tell us things like no. We're not flooding. You know you have the video evidence you have the night fire evidence. You have all the you know you here. Here's a picture of your your flare stack operation. Oh No we're not flair that has made an you know we've had interesting encounters where I'm on the right of way of a public highway and to be accosted and threatened and told you can't photograph this you know and I know my rights under the law and you know but to have to be challenged by that and then to have. Someone denied that it's actually taking place with the evidence you know right in. Front of them is pretty astonishing and very disingenuous You know they have a right to to make money and profit. I'm not denying that but not necessarily at our expense coin says that over eighteen months there was a forty percent increase in sky brightness. The first time that I remember looking up at the night sky out here. I couldn't recognize a single constellation. The vast number of stars overwhelmed the the sky. That's the city voice guy that I was you know had been seeing most of my life to look up and see the the Milky Way. Stretch from horizon to horizon is a moving tank to have a friend come out to visit and they look up and say what are those clouds clad slater starch. And that's a moving experience to be particularly at the new moon to be out in the the sounds that go with that night sky. So Birds They're all kinds of species that need that. Dark Sky to to thrive have to hear the Saudis how to hear the the birds of prey either operating at night and as the sky gets brighter. One of the things I've noticed is a decrease and those kinds of natural sounds. Fewer sounds of crickets fewer. Cicadas fewer firefly's. The dark skies. Aren't the only part of coins life. That's been affected growing up. Midland coin remembers visiting bow. May State Park home of the world's largest spring fed swimming pool. The place is beloved by Texans across the state going there for the first time. It almost seems like you're seeing a mirage. We're all realize I think that we're living in a desert. We're in the middle of July on desert so the first thing was was this. Excuse me beautiful I mean I remember it being just you know it takes my breath away to talk about you know that whole area I drove. Would you know as a kid and what you would see? Was Cotton Alfalfa melons. You know beautiful irrigated cropland and now it's a wasteland their flares burning at ground level You drive at night. It looks like you're driving through mortar. Despite this coin is careful not to condemn the entire industry as someone who's grown up here and worked in oil and gas. His concerns are nuanced. I don't want to paint with the broad brush that says that everybody that works in oil and gas as bad You know people are are doing the best they can. They've got a job. They're trying to feed their family. Pedder mortgage all that good stuff In it's also not the case that we can just leave all of it in the ground. There are some products that we produce from. Hydrocarbons that are are needed. And I'm not advocating nor my silly enough to claim that we you know we don't need those things so it's not it's not as if we can all make choices and just walk away from oil and gas today and everything is better tomorrow. That's ridiculous but the the way we're doing it now without any regard for stewarding the resources without any regard for the the harm that we're doing to people and the environment you know I disagree with that while plenty of people have pointed out. The environmental problems caused by the industry coin argues that transitioning to renewable energy is essential to the economic stability of the region the potential for wind and solar in the Permian Basin is huge. Though both solar and wind require far fewer workers in oil and gas the jobs would be consistent and the long-term less prone to boom-and-bust right. Now there's an ongoing debate about how long will continue using hydrocarbons and at what rate there's probably a twenty five to fifty year horizon For this kind of activity and really that's it and so you know if from an investor perspective if I were early in my investing activity would I be heavily? Invested in oil and gas despite big returns today answers now. Because there's there's an end to that coin doesn't see development in the TRANSPAC has has inevitable. He's fighting every way he can. Coins focused a lot of his efforts on reforming eminent domain laws in Texas if an oil or gas company declares their pipeline is a quote public. Utility companies can basically use eminent domain to take any land for their project. No matter how land owners feel. That's what happened in the big bend a few years ago when ranch land was seized to build a natural gas pipeline going from the Permian to Mexico coin as lobbying the Texas state legislature to make changes. Do you see any political appetite for some of that reform like his that building any steam or are we still pretty. Is it pretty pill battle with pretty uphill battle you know? I had a conversation with somebody that I'm not going to name them Somebody I respect deeply The conversation went something like can you help us in the Ledge and the answer was going. You know the one thing you can do to commit political suicide in Texas as opposed gas for coin. This guy is about more than protecting the beauty of Far West. Texas so with a background in science. I'm I'm terrified Climate change is real. I have direct access to a continuous data set from one micro-climate environment for the last eighty six years. So I can see that in the data and we all ought to be terrified of you know. We're we're going to at some point. Reach a tipping point and we already have and when we talk about the consequences Of seven hundred million cubic feet of day of methane being burned and converted into c o two and then no telling how much of that vented directly to the atmosphere through other fugitive emissions. Along with everything else. That goes along with You know it's like we we've set ourselves on fire and and are somehow enjoying it. It's crazy I asked. Coin where he gets the motivation to keep fighting despite the obstacles. I don't know exactly how to say this. It'll be an eloquent. If you come out here either. Love this place or you hate it. There's just something about it. There's something about the ground the air the sky. You know that you get it and most people that are out here are out here because they have to be because they WANNA be. There's there's other places people could go. And most folks that meet they came here purposely and they came here because they love this place the day after my conversation coin a headed north through the Davis mountains toward the Permian Basin as I neared boundary. The familiar signs of the boom came into view. And by the time I hit Kaya Nossa. The horizon was strong on all sides with black smoke rising from flares. The sides of the roads were lined with shredded tires and Oldfield trash. San haulers and rigs were packed onto the roads. I had hardly left the big been but it was like I was in a different world. I thought back to the Song Craig played for his ranch. No this a new YOU GOTTA. Watch your troubles. Ooh tween good burn. There's a La Crosse just to serve back in the Permian Basin. I stopped in at a place. I Know Pretty Well Dad. You're older so you get to go. I just going to have a conversation all we are but I have to ask you a few questions. Set it up. I'm sitting at the kitchen table with my mom and dad at their Homini. Andrew's mom made dinner and we were just finishing up our chocolate Meringue Pie. I wanted to talk to them about their lives. In the Permian Basin. My parents were born and raised here. The story goes that before they got together. They were both engaged to different people. My mom was at the Midland Mall looking for a wedding dress when she ran into my uncle skeet. Mom asked him about my dad and they wound up meeting up. The rest is history on always tell my parents. I'm going to marry him so what? I'm hearing a weird like boom boom heartbeat. We're talking of our love your payer. The Permian was in the midst of a terrible bust so after getting married they took off west to Phoenix and later California. There were chasing dreams and paychecks. They didn't want to return to their dusty hometown but they eventually did because they thought it was the best thing for my brothers and I and they've ended up spending their entire lives here. They talk a lot about the kind of work ethic you learn growing up in West Texas and the lifelong relationships. You have with friends and family at the same time. They didn't necessarily want us to stick around forever. So it's like multifaceted right you. You wanted to move here to raise kids. But you also said that you're glad that we all left and so that's seems kind of like a bittersweet scenario with like our kids we realize that there is there's so much beyond West Texas and of course being all of you guys are so artistic and we saw that you had such desires and dreams and things that were so far beyond what you would ever be able to experience or or really fulfilled here that he arrives very dangerously the Permian Basin is a place of stark contradictions despite growing up here despite returning here after college to work in the wool patch despite doing an eleven episode podcast here. I still struggle to fully wrap my mind around the place. The Permian made me who I am but like mom and dad has said I had to leave to become who I wanted to be but I still carry West Texas with me. I care about what happens to this region and I understand that changes in the industry. Not only affect the bigwigs in Houston. They affect my friends. My family I think you understand because you've heard this before is that you know people talk about big oil and they start talking about. Oh well we're glad like process felt because big oil is like suffering but big oil is all of us. It's a smog is. That's not what people most people think of as big oil and for us out here. That's what we think of as oil. We're the worker. Bees are cut. I mean we get our code but at the same time we've got actually realize that you know. Carbon fuels are going to be here forever. That's not what's going to. It's not forever. I mean says forever. The witness forever will never get away from those things and so we've got to invest in those things we really really have got to Come to a place where we're realistic and we're honest with each other. We say you know we've got we've got marry all of these things. We've got the renewables. We've we've got a petroleum energy. We've got all these things we've got to marry them. We've got to be very a systematic in how we move forward and find the best solution. Mom's way of thinking isn't all that unusual in the Permian in all my time reporting out here besides Coyne. I'm not sure I ever heard anyone used the phrase climate change but I found the Permian folks are much more thoughtful about our energy future than most. It's easy to believe that our world should be powered by renewable energy. But people out here. No our reliance on crew runs deep so much of our daily lives are affected by all but they see it up close every day. What happens here affects the world both economically and environmentally but Permian residents experience the consequences. Much more directly into the extreme. You know because we do we do this home. We do on our property here. We do plan. I guess plan to stay here at least make this our homebase for a very long time. You do hope that there are we. Water Air quality will be good. That things will be okay and that the economy will be good. Because if it's not then everything that we've invested in is no. This is where we are. Were Chosen The bay where we will roy be ended up and I guess will die by it so it is what it is never heard that one for not one. Is there anything else you WANNA add? Is there anything else you want to ask? How do I end this Rican podcasts? So on leaving the Permian Basin for the last time on this reporting trip For My last time reporting Boon town and Just south of mckanie kind of on the southeastern edge of the Permian Basin. It's a place. Where the flatten is gives rise to these plateaus of limestone and scrub brush. Mesquite this place that I'm at right now. I can count one two three four. Five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve. Twelve pump. Jacks in about a hundred yards radius. I'm in Upton County right now not far from where the first oil will the Santa Rita number one. The first commercial will was drilled out. Here that started this whole thing and also the same county where the Martinez men were killed. In a blowout on their rig. This place is so vitally important to the rest of the world and yet so few people understand it where no it you know when I tell people where I'm from a lot of times people say oh I'm sorry and I know they're just joking or whatever but at the same time it's my home and it's there's a lot to be proud about here and honestly so much of the world would be different for better and for worse if this place did not exist and if the people out here didn't work as hard and we're as innovative as they have been and there's a lot of complicated things and in some ways. I have more questions now. Eight months after we first started really a year after we first started. Then I did going in. You know I feel even more conflicted in some ways. You know it's kind of funny. I'm surrounded by all these pontiacs but there's also windmills on on the ridge line all around me in every direction but seeing these windmills turning on the horizon watching these pump. Jacks Bob up and down I have to say does give me some a little bit of hell and while there is a storm to the west and to the north bearing down on me right now. Promising all kinds of bad bad weather. It's and I'm not even making this up for a good metaphor there's sunny sky head and that's Thankfully that's the direction I'm headed all Miss You west Texas Chris. Wallace in this was boomtown. A Boomtown is a CO production of imperative. Entertainment and Texas monthly executive producer. Is Jason Hope produced and engineered by Brian? Sanfer who also wrote the score. Boomtown is edited by J K Nickel and Megan. Cry Co reporter is Lee Freak Stat. Our theme song is written and performed by Paparazzi pedal steel played throughout the series by Jeff. Queen thank you to Emily Kimbrough and Nick Simon night for the amazing artwork and photographs. Thanks to our as intern as candy. I'm your host and writer Christian Walz special thanks to all. Our partners loved ones children and generally anyone who not only tolerated our schedules. But were our biggest cheerleader. Over the past eight months this episode was made with help from the crew at Marfa public radio. Thanks to Mitch. Borden for his work reporting and researching this episode. If you're outside of West Texas you can follow them at Marfa. Public Radio DOT ORG. Texas monthly's parent company also owns interest in the midstream oil and gas industry. Among other diversified investments are editorial judgments are made independently of any such investments and finally a special thanks to all of you who've tuned in left review in told your friends about boomtown. We hope you've enjoyed the journey. That night I went home. I got into the sea and I was looking at a gallon of vinegar. I went to the shower too raw. Been so anyway. I've been a garage than I was good the next day. It was just everything healed up the next day.

Permian Basin Texas Craig Carter West Texas big bend Permian Mary Lou Davis Mountains MARFA Marfa Lights Rio Grande Ben Country Far West Chris Wallace Mitch Mexico Rio Guerande George Mitchell
Episode 127: The Reverend

Criminal

37:09 min | 1 year ago

Episode 127: The Reverend

"Support for criminal comes from Beta brand Beta brands dress. Pant Yoga pants super comfortable perfectly. Stretchy stay wrinkle free. They come in dozens of colors patterns patterns and styles. What good idea being able to go straight from the Yoga Studio to the office? I think it's smart. Criminals Centers. Get Twenty percents off at Beta brand dot com slash Criminal see for yourself why millions of women agree that these are the most comfortable dress pants. Ever go to Beta brand dot com slash criminal for twenty percent off. That's B. E. T. A. B. The R. A. N. D. dot com slash criminal and small town life and in rural life. One knows one's is neighbors Life is slow otheir we simply entertain each other Toki. It's Quite a thing. If you've gone to give a known. I saw them small town. This is Harper Lee. Speaking to w q x are a New York radio station in nineteen sixty four. The people there are not particularly worldly wise in any way but they tell you a story every time you see one. We'll old types. We Talk Harper Lee was born in Nineteen Twenty six in Monroeville Alabama. She's best known for her book to kill a Mockingbird She submitted completed manuscript to publisher in nineteen fifty nine five days later. She packed her things and moved to Garden City. Kansas to research a a crime that have been making national headlines. The clutter 's a wealthy family of four had been murdered. She won with her childhood friend. FRIEND AND NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR AUTHOR Truman Capote. He'd invited her to be his research assistant. They agreed on a fee of nine hundred dollars. Choose excited to work on nonfiction to learn how to tell a true crime story. She later told a reporter. The the crime intrigued him. And I'm intrigued with crime and boy. I wanted to go. So if you go to the New York Public Library Um You can look in the Capote archive these extraordinary reporting notes. That Harper Lee made for Truman Capote in the fifth in nineteen fifty nine and nineteen sixty. I am during their first few reporting trips in Kansas author. Casey Sap and you know she's an incredibly scrupulous reporter. She made these very your detailed notes for him. Trim capote published a series of pieces about the clutter murders in the New Yorker. Then later expanded them into a book in cold blood. Heartfully had spent six years helping him research and shape. The book in her role was widely known to the people in Kansas. But Truman capote never acknowledged that she'd helped report or tell the story. Some people have speculated that he didn't give her credit because he was jealous to kill a mockingbird had made Harper Lee famous. She won both the National Book Award and the Pulitzer Prize. He's here. She is in nineteen sixty four. Well my director is very limited. I think they want to do the best. I can with the talent that God gave me. I suppose I would like to be the chronicler of something that I think is going down the drain with flip and that is small town middle class southern life in other words. I'll I WANNA be Jane Austen of south of Alabama in nineteen seventy seven people in Alexander City Alabama began to see Harper Lee around their town. A man named Robert Burns had gone to a funeral and shot someone in the head in the middle of the day in front of three hundred people people. He didn't deny it. His lawyer didn't deny and Harper Lee thought it might be time to write her own true crime book. I'm phoebe judge. This is criminal. Robert Burns was on trial for the murder of Willie Maxwell. Both men were middle aged. Both were African. American newspapers reported that on his way to jail Robert Burns told the police officer. I had to do it and if I had to do it over over I do it again. His defense attorney was a man named Tom. Rodney in his opening statement. Tom Rodney told the jury we admit he killed him and we met. He shot him three times and we admit he died as a result of the gunshot. Wounds that Robert Louis Burns put in. You know it's basically a prosecutors dream. He just admits to everything. And says you know we're not gonNA dispute any of these facts but we're going to try CRYAN contextualized them and we're going to give you a reason. Of course you know that is a bold strategy Willie. Maxwell was a well known minister. Most people call him Reverend Maxwell and by the time he was killed in nineteen seventy seven. Everyone knew who he was as one local paper reported accorded. The attraction of the case is expected to be generated. More by Reverend Maxwell's life than his death six people who had been close to him had died in seven years most of them family members in each case? There were rumors that reverend friend Maxwell had been involved with the police could never prove it. People were afraid of him. He was born in Coosa County Alabama Obama in one thousand nine hundred eighty five. He was drafted into the army during world. War Two where. He became a sergeant when he returned from the war in nineteen forty seven segregation limited his access to jobs that paid well. He worked several jobs at once in the timber industry at a rock quarry and in the same textile textile factory that manufactured. The uniforms that he'd worn in the army he married a woman named Mary Lou Edwards so they got married in nineteen forty nine and they stayed married until nineteen seventy and by all accounts. The kind of outward account of their marriage was was one that was happy and faithful so the the beginning of their marriage is notable as what happened several decades into it in in one thousand nine hundred seventy. Casey sap says says that Willie Maxwell was gaining a reputation as a charismatic and charming preacher. He was sometimes invited to various congregations. Aunts and to speak at revivals he'd been ordained in nineteen sixty two and went on to get a certificate of theological study from Selma University City on August. Third Nineteen seventy. He was invited to preach at a revival in the nearby town of Auburn and supposedly spent most of that night preaching then left his wife at home shelling peas and had told her to leave the the phone on the hook because he was going to call when the revival had ended it and he was on his way home so that she would know and What he says happened as he called home and she never answered and then when he finally got home from Auburn and she wasn't there and he didn't know what had happened to her but he figured she was? Visiting a sister am which she did quite often and so he went to bed and it was only several hours later when he woke up then she still wasn't home that he began to worry. Reverend Maxwell called Mary Lou's mother and sister they hadn't seen her then. He called called their next door neighbor. A woman named orcas Anderson who was very close with Mary Lou. She had seen Mary Lou but much earlier in the day and then he called the police. He said he thought his wife may have been in a car accident. He said they might go. Look on highway twenty two that very night. They found Mary. Lou Maxwell dead several miles from her home and she was in her car but What what had had looked from the outside of the car like a car accident Wasn't that at all and her. Her body was quite beaten and quite quite disturbed. The maxwells neighbor Super dorks Anderson told police that Mary Lou Maxwell have been worried and anxious all that day amid she'd come over that night. Sing that Willey had called. Because he'd been in a car accident dorkcast Anderson told police that Mary Lou said that Willie needed her it to go get him. This was the opposite of what the Reverend told them when they began asking questions about the reverend they also learned that the marriage was not as happy as it had seemed in the kind of public facade offered by the Reverend these congregations and to these places where he was invited to preach and quite quickly they were told that the reverend had been unfaithful to his wife and that there were several women and there was reason to believe that the marriage was was was not nearly as happy as the Reverend had led folks to believe and when the police went to speak with some of Mary Lou Maxwell Siblings in fact one of the various sisters. The Reverend said she had probably been visiting that day. That sister said I'm almost right away that she thought the Reverend had been involved in that probably had murdered her sister in in the weeks. After Mary Lou Maxwell's death Willie Maxwell began to write letters to life insurance companies. Asking for his checks there was a kind of technical legal dispute over whether or not homicide constituted accidental death because he held all of these accidental death policies on his wife which again at the start started. Things isn't you know isn't odd and any respect obviously many of us ensure our spouses and it's considered good family planning to make sure that you know if you you were to die that your family would be provided for. But in the case of the Reverend there were actually a large number of policies in some of them had been taken out not long before his wife's murder Willie Maxwell's trial for the murder of Mary. Lou Maxwell began and ended on the same day. He hired a lawyer named Tom. Rodney to defend him. The neighbor Dork is Anderson was slated to be the star witness because she was the last person to see Mary Lou Alive. The prosecution expected to repeat what she told police but when she took the stand she told a different story she. You testified that there was no way Willie Maxwell could have committed the murder Later when dorks Anderson was called to testify in in one of Willie Maxwell's civil lawsuits against the life insurance company. She introduced herself s Orcas Maxwell and I told her are too well. I told the jury before the opening statement that This This pre. You're going to have a preacher here and don't let that affect your ability to find him guilty of murder because he was preaching on Sunday and killing on Monday. This is John Denson. He represented in insurance company in one of Willie Maxwell's civil lawsuits. His job was to prove that. If Willie Killed Mary Lou the life insurance policies he taken Out on her would be invalid so I put her on and I told her tell the jury her name and she said I'm Mrs Maxwell and I said Ms Anson you. You've changed your name. And she said yes. I said well When are you are you married to? She said I married to wherever I see you at river. Maximum win was that she told me a day. And I said what happened to your husband. Will he died suddenly and I said well all right. Would you tell the jury what you saw on the night of so and so and she said No. I refuse to testify against my husband so That was my case and I had no witness really to refute his testimony so is undisputed testimony for the jury that he was not at the scene. Only move of the murder between when Mary Lou Maxwell had been found murdered and the reverend trial for her murder Dork Anderson's husband had died under under what Some folks in the area felt were suspicious circumstances and after his death she then married the Reverend dorks Anderson's husband had al Ass us. His doctors thought he had years to live. But in May of Nineteen seventy-one he suddenly died. No autopsy was performed. The cause of death was listed as pneumonia. You know there is. There is a tremendous amount of gossip. About how the Reverend had gotten away with all this and how he had made so much money the folks around Lake Martin. Really start to talk about the reverend and they no longer think that he's just you know a hard working millworker or a gifted preacher. They start to wonder her. If he's not a Voodoo practitioner this suspicious deaths continued in February nineteen seventy-two Willie Maxwell's brother was found dead attorney. John Denson so his brother John Columbus actual was found An unconscious highly Ali intoxicated condition of four one which is deadly. I mean point eight is Is the level and People said there's no way man could've drunk that much by himself he would have passed out so this suspicion was that he'd been forced. The whiskey had been forced down on him in. May of that year dorky Anderson in Willie Maxwell had a child and then in September Dorka Sanderson was found dead. She was found in her car on the side of the road. Just as Mary Lou Maxwell had been bound once again. Her car was found abandoned on the side of a road in what seemed to be a stage car accident. Although the external damage to the car did not at at all explain the the content of the car which was her body turned over in the front we. Oh well in a in a kind of unnatural position that an the police once again felt certain had had been staged. The police were not able to prove that any crime had occurred. Coroners ruled the dorkiest Anderson and died of Natural Causes Willie. Maxwell was free Toco and free to begin requesting payment on the seventeen life life insurance policies. He'd taken out on a second wife. He collected eighty thousand dollars by. You know April of nineteen seventy-three when he succeeded in getting getting the last one of these payouts he had managed to cobble together. You know a thousand dollars here. Three thousand dollars. They are five thousand dollars so actually a large number of policies seventeen in and total To get that eighty thousand dollars. The life insurance industry began in earnest after the civil war. Casey Sup up says that by nineteen twenty. There were almost as many life insurance policies as there were Americans and she says it. By the time Willie Maxwell was taken out policies. He's the industry had become large lawless and lucrative. It was easy to take out a policy and easy to do it without anyone knowing you could walk into a bar and there might be a matchbook and when you open it you know it had the five questions you had to answer for a quarter they would give you a thousand dollar policy and these burial policies were very popular because for people for working class people. All they really needed was enough money to cover their funeral and burial and that meant they wouldn't be a burden on their loved ones even if they weren't kind of profitable death and so you know company after company around the country offered these kind of lower denomination policies but the expectation. was you only have one not that. You would have seventeen on the same person Willie. Maxwell had policies on everyone his mother his aunts and uncles nieces is a nephews even his own infant child so if he knew your date of birth and he could somehow get a hold of your social security number you know he would mail away the reply card and and for a quarter for fifty cents for seventy five cents for a dollar he would initiate these policies and it was. It was a full year. Before you had to pay a renewal fee so for about a year you know he would. He would hold truly these insurance policies. Where in the event that that person died you know for a quarter? He had made a thousand dollars or for fifty cents made three three thousand dollars eventually. Life insurance companies started to catch on so when these companies when these insurance companies started to realize is what was happening they of course tried to stop payment and what happens then is what happens today in the event that you know you have a policy with nationwide and you know your when your loved one dies and they try to stop payment. You have to take that insurance company to court and that is what Tom. Rodney did. On the reverend's behalf and you know again he did it for the one thousand dollar policies and he did it for the twenty thousand dollars. Policies and these cases went before juries. And you know the the matter at hand was not only whether the policy was applicable or enforceable but also to some extent whether some of these double indemnity clause applied. And just how much money the reverend was going to get. Because as far as the insurance orange companies were concerned he deserves zero dollars and as far as the reverend was concerned he was owed. You know double the face value of any of them and so he succeeded in most of the time in getting at least half of the face value of the policies and you know that that happened death after death and you know a lot of people around lake. Martin were not only apprehensive of the Reverend Maxwell Swell They were apprehensive of his lawyer. And so lucrative was the business of representing the Reverend Maxwell. That when Tom Rodney Bill New law office folks around Lake Martin called the Maxwell House and is really one of Tom. Rodney's most notorious clients. Tom Rodney filed so many lawsuits on Willie Maxwell's behalf that he was running out of potential Jurors Casey separates. It seem. There is hardly a man or woman who would not heard the reverend plead his case against one one insurance company or another. Casey SAP interviewed Tom Rodney before his death in two thousand eleven and for a long time. Tom Insisted on the Reverend's innocence. And as far as the legal system was concerned he was owed all of this insurance money and it didn't matter that there was this pattern of death that followed him. I kind of profitable side to all of these deaths but you know Tom was just doing his job as a lawyer and he represented anyone. So why wouldn't he have represented the Reverend Maxwell Swell and while we were talking about it he would say you know. Of course. A lot of African Americans were denied. The kind of legal representation. They deserve in one thousand nine hundred seventy six Willie Maxwell's nephew. James Hicks was found dead in a car on the same road. Where dorks Anderson's Anderson's body had been found? The medical examiner said there is nothing quote which would adequately account for the death of the subject We'll be right back. Support for criminal comes from better. Better help better. Help makes professional counseling accessible affordable and convenient. So anyone can get help anytime anywhere they offer. Licensed counselors who specialize specialize in a wide range of issues including depression anxiety and more. You can connect privately with a counselor through text chat phone and video calls and get help on your own time at your own pace. And at an affordable rate criminal listeners will get ten percents off their first month discount code criminal. That's better help dot dot com slash criminal better health dot com slash criminal. Thanks to Casper D- For their support with over twenty thousand reviews. An average of four point eight stars Casper's becoming the Internet's favourite mattress. I bought my father a casper mattress and he loves it. It's delivered right to your door and is easy to set up. Casper offers free shipping and returns in the US and Canada. And you can be sure of your purchase with hundred nights risk-free sleep on it trial. Get one hundred dollars towards select mattresses by visiting Casper Dot com slash criminal in using in criminal at checkout terms and conditions apply. That's one hundred dollars off. Select Mattresses Klay Visiting Casper Dot com slash criminal and using criminal at checkout At this point five people closely associated with Willie Maxwell ax well had died. He got married again. His third wife was named affiliate Burns. They lift with two children. The son Willie Maxwell had dorka Sanderson and a teenage relative of affiliates named Shirley Ellington in Nineteen Seventy Kevin Shirley and Ellington was found dead a mile from their house. She was sixteen what the police thought when they arrived at the scene. Gene was that She had maybe been changing. A tire. the lug nuts were removed and the wheel was off the axle and Shirley Ann was was under the under the weight of the car and You know once again that was very quickly disproved by their investigation. It had just been staged that way and then actually she had been the corner. Finding was that she had been strangled to death and that day in June Once again after after their initial investigation the police thought the Reverend Reverend was the most likely suspect. And this was a tremendously difficult. Time for the folks around like Martin. It wasn't just that shirli-ann Ellington was sixteen. which was was Obviously a scandal in its own right it was of course the fact that you know here again was another one of the reverend's relatives found dead under very similar similarly suspicious circumstances and there was real terror and fear and again I think that inevitably when you look back at crimes like this You know there's a there's a kind of elegance in hindsight that makes things seem obvious. But I'm for the people who lived in this part of Alabama. You know this was the started in nineteen in seventy in here by the summer of seventy seven. It just seemed like things were accelerating and it seemed more and more like there was nothing the police could do on June eighteenth and nineteen seventy seven the funeral for Shirley and Ellington was held at House of Hutchinson funeral home in Alexander City. People didn't the Knicks pecked Willie Maxwell to come but he did with his wife. You know three hundred people were gathered into that funeral home and they were already on edge and they were already already afraid and there were all of on top of the kind of straightforward earthly rumors about murder and methodology. There there was. Is this heightened fear around the kind of supernatural stories. People told about the reverend and you know some people said he was wearing a bulletproof vest and some people said you know he you had more powders and poisons on his body and some people said you know you couldn't even look him in the eye so you know. All of this was happening in in this kind of saturated space of the funeral. Oh home and there was so much talk and so at surely and Ellington's funeral near the end of it One of her sisters You know had been crying Ryan had gone up to the casket to sears sister and cried out from the back of the funeral home. You killed my sister and now you're gonNA pay for it. One of Shirley Ann Ellington's relatives CBS. A man named Robert Burns stood up in the pew behind Willie Maxwell and fired three shots directly at his head. You know it was. Is it totally chaotic scene. When the shots were fired and people didn't know what was happening and they didn't know where to go and there was a stampede to get out of the funeral home and you know people on that street were instantly told you know? Will Maxwell had been shot you know. The Reverend's been gunned down so You know obviously there are three hundred witnesses to this murder to some extent Dan. You know there were that many people there and some of them were so scared. They couldn't count the shots and others of them claimed to have waited outside the funeral home to learn more about about who had done it and once word spread about who had fired the shots it was immediately explicable To people why and to some extent there was a kind of instant narrative about you know this vigil anti I'm as a man named Robert Burns. Robert Burns was arrested when he was asked why he did it. He said he was worried about the safety. And and well being of the people around like Martin. He said he didn't want anyone else. He loved to be murdered. The Montgomery advertiser reported that people felt a quote sense of relief. That Willie Maxwell was dead. So after Shirley Ann's funeral if you can believe the reverend a funeral was even larger because there were so many people who came and just to make sure he was really dead district attorney. Tom Young said that the case against Robert Burns would be quote treated as an out and out murder Robert Burns hired. Willie Maxwell's longtime attorney me to defend him. Tom Rodney takes his case. Yeah I mean one of the you know the kind of there are so many oddities and audio secrecy is about this case and You know it's not just the complexity of the insurance fraud and it's not just the kind of deep weirdness of the investigations and the failure to reach a kind of straightforward cause of death determination. And the just the though all of those kinds of INS and outs of you know what people knew and when they knew it and who was related to whom in this business Yes one of the one of the kind of oddest things about this cases Right away when the the Reverend has gone down Tom Rodney any this lawyer who spent so many years representing him. decides to take the case of the vigilante. WHO murdered him? Obviously a lot of people wondered you know what what was going on. Was He going to really defend Robert Burns. was you know it was this an effort to Protect the Reverend's reputation after his murder. was it an effort for it to Rescue his own reputation. You know a lot of people thought well. Maybe Tom Rodney was just trying to change the narrative about who was in the kinds of cases he would take that this was his way of atoning for all the years he had represented the reverend and all the money he had made the district attorney. Tom Young and Tom Rodney had argued against see together many times in court before Tom Rodney had to figure out. What if any defense could make for Robert Burns and what defense? Tom Young wouldn't see coming. He decided to move forward with the defense of not guilty. By reason of insanity he had arrived arrived this defense partly because even though it was before an official diagnosis of PTSD even existed Robert Burns had served in Vietnam and had Like a lot of men who served in Vietnam and combat had had a very harrowing experience and had lost another nephew during Vietnam and it had seen many of his Many of the men in his unit die and actually the episode and the Church in the chapel when Robert Burns murdered the reverend was was just a PTSD episode. And that you know he had just been Temporarily insane in that moment and not able to distinguish between right and wrong and that was that was what led him to murder the reverend and he could not be held responsible because it was just an episode of PTSD. Tom Rodney also reminded ended the jury about all of Willie Maxwell's own relatives who died under mysterious circumstances. According to the Alabama Journal Rodney Kidney Question. Witnesses continually about Maxwell being an alleged Voodoo practitioner and his involvement in the five deaths. He was just trying China. Remind the jury that a very bad man had been killed in a very bad man who has menacing the community in a way. The police couldn't stop was finally stopped by his client. Harper Lee was in the courtroom. She'd met Tom Bradley a year before at the Democratic National Convention. They gotten along. He sent her a summary of the case and she was intrigued. She set up camp and Alexander City in the end. Robert Burns earns was found not guilty by reason of insanity. Tom Rodney had won the case. In Harper Lee got to work. It's pretty incredible you know. She did exactly what she had done with. Truman capote out in Kansas when he was working on in cold blood and when they are investigating the clutter murders together she Got To know the lawyers who are involved in these cases and looked for evidence in primary source documents and you know went to the Department of Vital Statistics and obtained death certificates awesome birth certificates and you know paid the court reporter for a full transcript of the burns trial and went and interviewed. You know relatives of the Reverend and relatives of the Reverend's Prince victims and you know just scoot around town busy as a bee for almost a year after the trial Robert Burns was briefly institutionalized who analyzed at a Psychiatric Hospital Tuscaloosa. A psychiatrist who evaluated him said in a way killing Willie Maxwell was the safest thing anybody did all summer. Why I probably would have killed that man myself? When Robert Burns was released from the hospital? Spital Harper Lee interviewed him twice. She met with the family members of the people. Willie Maxwell had allegedly kill Tom. Rodney give her a suitcase full of documents insurance paperwork legal briefs everything he had relating to Willie Maxwell he told her to keep it as long long as she needed to write her true crime book. She was calling it the reverend when she had finished the reporting other reverend and and tried to do the right in Seems to have become difficult in the way that all writing projects had been difficult for her and even worse than that she was one of these writers. who had you know strong feelings about how you know serious writing had to be difficult and you had to struggle for it and you know she would go round quoting Gene Gene Fowler saying you know that writing writing was what happened when you sat down to the typewriter and waited for your forehead to bleed and I think that can be such a self reinforcing notion about writing so however optimistic and excited she was when she was in Alexander City when she left and she really struggled with the book over the years people have said all kinds of things about the status of the Reverend and whether the book exists at all in Nineteen eighteen ninety seven twenty years after Willie Maxwell was killed? Tom Rodney said that he and Harper Lee still spoke twice a year and that each time she told him the book was still in progress. Others have said that Harper Lee told them. The book was nearly done that it just just needed an ending. Someone said the book was finished and locked in a trunk. Someone else said they'd read it and it was even better then in cold blood. Casey separates that Harper Lee was so elusive that even her mysteries have mysteries. Harper Lee died in two thousand sixteen. Slow where I think of steady work you you know. So many riders don't like to ride. I think that that the chief complaint they hate to ride they must they do it under the compulsion that makes any August twenty years but they don't enjoy sitting down and trying to turn into a reasonable unit. But I do. I like to ride and sometimes I'm afraid that I like it too much because house get into work. I don't want to leave it Casey subs- book about Harper Lee and Willie Maxwell is called furious hours murder fraud and the last trial of harp really criminal is created by Lawrence Spore and me needy. Wilson is our senior producer. Susannah Roberson our assistant producer audio mix by Michael Rayfield and rob buyers. Julian Alexander makes original `lustration for each episode of criminal. You can see them at. This is criminal. Dot Com were on facebook and twitter at criminal show criminal is recorded in the studios of North Carolina. Public Radio debut. UNC were proud member of Radio Tovia from PRI. Six a collection of the best podcasts around shows like mortified the mortified podcast features adult sharing the awkward embarrassing things. We made his kids kids before an audience of total strangers typically the podcast features storytellers sharing variety of adolescent writings. Teenage Diary Entries Poetry Letters School Assignments Home Movies Lyrics. Their newest episode is solely music oriented and celebrates Song Lyrics. We wrote his kids when I was in first or second grade and my brother and I came up with a song using the name of our family dermatologist. When when I was eleven years old I wrote a song told Happy Times? A hair again girl had a crush on her name is Laurel and I wrote a song called Morale Brielle sounded more poetic and I was about seven years old. My little sister and I wrote an Ode to my dad's bald spot to the tune of wooly bully and we called this song. Willie Bald spot go. Listen I'm phoebe. Judge this is criminal The radio to acts support for criminal comes from better help. Better help makes professional counseling accessible affordable inconvenient. So anyone can get help anytime anywhere they offer. Licensed counselors who specialize in a wide range of issues including depression anxiety and more. You can connect privately with a counselor through text chat phone and video calls and get help on

Reverend Maxwell Tom Rodney murder Spital Harper Lee Willie Maxwell Robert Burns Mary Lou Maxwell Casey Sap Alabama Tom orcas Anderson Willie Truman Capote Kansas Mary Lou reporter Maxwell Swell Martin
HOUR 3: Steve Haskin, Rich Eng

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

1:15:11 hr | 2 years ago

HOUR 3: Steve Haskin, Rich Eng

"Operations with steam big on Sirius X._M.. Radio Amazing achievements Pennsylvania Bridge on the world states. Thanks to finest city unique leaked Bella and Shamrock rose joins Kentucky as the only state in the past decade to read Eclipse Award Champions three straight years at that tour unmatched incentives plus our Resource Development Fund can only be used to support P._A.. The a breeding and racing why breed anywhere else this is Brian San Fratello go to bread dot Com and see why Pennsylvania is the premier place to breathe him race Moore spills dot com as a cost effective tiny saving painfully benders vendors Rabi degenerate electronic screeners owner the vendors who can pay through horse bills power for just fifty cents. Turn out of work in minutes with our easy have our team takeover your bookkeeping or continue to do it yourself only on subscription chuck on video tutorial on the news dot com to chat and get started today for free or spills dot com toll free number eight nine for four six four three learn the business of horses who's in the world's only accredited equine business program the University of Louisville Equine Business Program. The University of Louisville has a legacy of excellence for more than twenty five years of equine business education classes are taught by industry experts in state of the art facilities located in the heartland of America's Equine Industry the University of Louisville Equine Business program when it comes to horses. We mean business for more Information Visit Business Dot Louisville Dot e._D._U.. Slash equal. Why is accreditation Dacian important in aftercare thoroughbred aftercare alliances standard of accreditation and GRANDPA's provide donors with confidence that their contributions are allocated in the most effective manner D._A.? Accreditation is only awarded after a complete complete review of an organization aftercare cannot be an afterthought for the industry to learn more or support the T._A.'s mission visit therabreath aftercare dot Org. Hey what's going on. Mike here and I'm GonNa tell you about an offer from my good friends at express. Let's be honest. We know you love playing the race but you can't always make it to detract. Sometimes life just gets in a way of a good bet well. What if I told you about a place we never miss it and you start with house house money? It say I'm crazy right not express bet you first hundred dollars are on them. That's right sign up would express bet dot com using Promo Code X._p.. 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Radio you're you'RE GONNA love it and that's <hes> Mikey guaranteed must be eighteen years older and twenty one years old and certain states open and account with express bet state research activities legal void where prohibited national gambling support line eight hundred five to forty seven hundred now back to Steve Vic on Siriusxm <music> yarn it stay one shot on a bus connell the Jackpot which we have not heard in ages Joe as speaking jackpots as Sid Fernando described you yesterday how about how about the Brazilian farm the harass whatever it was that <hes> ended up with their hands on New Year's Day they hit the Jackpot because because maximum security enabling them to to sell New Year's Day to Japan for five bills and Steve asking good morning <hes> good morning that that was the. Did you hear said yesterday that story <hes> I didn't I heard the I heard in the beginning and then I had to leave. I had had to leave because you. Where did you go get a new phone nice? I'm so proud of you. Don't be designed to me. I want my phone back. I feel I feel like I'm listening barbells holding up to my ear. It sounds good though I'll tell you that you sound clears about well we we used to phone clever. I put it on screen is so dark and then it gets right when it wants to get stark again. I don't know who knows well yeah. I don't I don't like change like what I have my own little phone. I could hold it up to my ear I can I could even let go of it so big. I said why we're kind of phone. Is this like a holding a computer router up <hes> I. I need a second phone to hold up to my other years so I could balance myself well. Does it have all the bells and whistles can can we send you photos and all I <hes> who I'm like. I'm on my wife. He's got an iphone not does he makes calls that's. I don't think she's looking at APP yet. And what about I've got. I've got which I've got all these. You know I might I might use one for G._p._S. or something but all the stuff I don't. I don't need all that you know what I'm still backing. I'm still backing the ages of the phone booth. I think they had this thing on online where they they had like <hes> who's like high-school college students now I'd like a whole bunch of them and they gave him the old rotary phones teams and they asked him to make phone call and they had absolutely no clue how to dial a rotary phone no clue it was like it was like this weird contraption from some from the medieval days yeah well. There's there's also there's that series. There's a there's a on youtube. There's a series of videos where kids t teens and and younger younger kids are shown various various implements of of history and there's one the one I saw most recently was a record player and the kids. The kids looked at a few of them new right away. They said that's a record player. This wow it's record player and they <hes> but there was a couple younger kids that were maybe eight seven eight nine years old that just stared blankly and had just had no clue what they were looking at. I'll go on better by the way I'll l.. Guarantee You you look at the millennium you look at the teenagers now and young kids. I'll bet they wouldn't have a clue. V._C._R.'s yeah that's true with the with the yeah that's true. I mean it's just you know the the whole. The whole world has gone way beyond my reach. I'm I'm I'm. I'm getting older by the remember Bob Dole Sung forever young asked me inside but not outside well. That's true you are you are young at heart and I am young at heart. I'm young in hand. Give me something I don't know what to do with it. I don't know I have no clue what to do. The thing is I look at it I I the thing is I barely know how to answer but when <hes> when Joe cold before <hes> Yeah I look at my phone. I says the guy in the store says she's like your phone except the fuel things. I know it's not well all right easier. Can you can take pictures. You can take pictures of Theo isn't that isn't that the most camera for that. I don't WanNa take it on here because I take it on here and it's on here. I think my camera then it's got a chip my computer and I send it out to my photo store and they get prints guy. I don't want I don't want on my phone. I won't pick that I can hold in my hand in the photo album again like an old folk member appeal photo album. What are you kidding about the thing is i? I have all these photo albums. I go to my cam by photo store. Now didn't even sell them anymore. For you can't even get the the photo albums I gotta use old ones and I got like eight thousand piles of photographs over the house in envelopes and everything Seattle. Everybody's got like nine thousand photos on their phone. You know I I don't one of my photos on my phone I want I want something I can hold on my hand well speaking of and speaking of throwback <hes> earlier this morning. I don't know if you had a chance to listen. You could listen on your phone. Though you know the the conversation I had with Bill Gallo about the obviously about today Smith way but when I was well when I was home with my father on Sunday afternoon we heard when things went sideways at the Tina 'cause my brother was going up to Manchester. I said let's go. Let's go join Jamie and and <hes> will you know we'll spend the afternoon with my father and <hes> to you being at the eighteen sixty three club by the way some very disappointed in their. I'm sorry I I did not give Pat McKenna enough notice I only checked in with him yesterday and they had some function so it wasn't it wasn't a good day but the next week next week for Whitney the <hes> the build up to Whitney Day and by the way while I have you I that's another thing I gotta talk to you about of course as Mary Lou <hes> but that conversation they had with with bill at the end about his father a father's artwork in the Daily News and you you've got to have an appreciation for that. Guy Was the best thing in the paper oh absolutely the greatest aged and the you know where he did a lot. Most of his sketches was in June wards column Kim Award was strictly a columnist for news and and Cynwyd was big racing fan in fact it was Eugene Ward. Johnny will tell the story it was gene ward that put all the pressure on John Nehru to run Dr Sagar in the Kentucky Derby and neighbor got so sick of him already you know for him coming out and saying Dr Vegas should run into the Kentucky Derby and and and and McKnight was saying you know what's what this guy you know shouldn't maybe we should run Derby and they were not just all listen to this guy you know and he's not running into Derby's. Not you know he's not running into premium wind up bringing the wizards. You know it a mile so I mean you know neighbor who is he knew he was ready. Between war kept he was doing that. We kept plugging away but bill but everyone columns they would have like a different <hes> it wasn't like a one column one subject so he would write about something and then he would write about something else and then something else so he's like maybe three or four different items in his column and each one was divided by a Bill Gallo sketch and they were great. I mean when I think of the Daily News I think of Bill Gallo you think of Dick Young Writing Sports and again as when I became racing fan I think of <hes> Gene Ward Jim Kelly was the you know was covered. The Racist mckean will give count but but those Bill Gallo sketches gene woods column were classics. I wish I had <hes> actually I have some of them. In my arch and letters <hes> scrapbook actors have gene ward was writing columns but arts and let us a lot so I do have some of those <hes> Bill Gallo sketches but he was really really good. That's Sabana gun bygone era really the the sports car o the sports editorial cartoonist and this is pre ped- oh yeah I mean you know I mean you know was don't put political cartoons and then and then started coming in Peguis just starting doing racing cartoons he he was there but it was a different type of thing you know he'd have his <hes> his aucoin comedy and peppers an absolute genius. <hes> gala was was different. You didn't try to be like funny. He just try to make caricatures of people and horses and <hes> you know and he then he would do his sketches of the <hes> <hes> the mets and the bombs he was big on the Button Brooklyn Bomb Yearbook on charges the bars he would always have that you know that bombed cartoon of the Bum <hes> <hes> he was <hes> he was the best. I'M GONNA give everybody the linked to that book that is that is that bill asked I when I knew there was a compile elation. It's called drawing a crowd. I'm going to send a link out to it and I think we we might be early yet but I'm pretty sure somebody a mets. Fan Is that has affiliate for next year is going to name her basement Bertha that that <hes> basement birther we screw yeah. That was one of his basement yeah. It's the come up with that. That was the funny thing is that after the mets won the world series you know how could you you know you see it was like is it was it was like <hes> when J._F._k.. died and one meter went into obscurity because he made a living imitating J._F._k.. <hes> so here you know basically Bertha acted you talk about baseman already more fundamental in the world series. Well you have to Turner into into Penthouse Penthouse Taus Pamela or some you know some equivalent <hes> let's <hes> let me also before we talk about what went on at Monmouth and what's going to happen Friday Saturday Saratoga Steve With the three year olds Mary Lou Whitney and over the years you must have had <hes> obviously some brushes <hes> with the with greatness when it came to Mary Lou Ray. I wrote a column on it <hes> right after she died last week so I you know I total my my <hes> my experiences with <hes> with Mary Lou in the in the column and he was <hes> you know she was just an absolute wonderful. Dividing is my first experience with Mary blue. I you know I didn't know her. I knew of her obviously knew reputation. I know versus socialite and it was when <hes> Joe Hirsch <hes> had given up covering the Derby and it had meek takeover and Joe had a regular feature he did every Saturday <hes> he did a <hes> like <hes> <hes> a socialite column where he would go to millionaire's row and it was always undecided chatted on Derby Day she would write on Friday and it would be printed on Saturday and he would <hes> he would go around talking to you know all the celebrities and the millionaires and then just basically saying who was there <hes> so and so was spotted uh-huh. Maybe get a quote from them. I didn't WanNa do that. I'm the obvious and into celebrities at all but when I started this is in nineteen ninety four Joe took me around to millionaire's row and showed me what to do showed me to rogue showed me where to go showed me where to find all the celebrities so we go up there and he you know Mary Lucy's him and you know it's time you know Joe would hold court you know everybody would just foreign all over Joe and Mary Lou just ran up to him and just oh Joe Nice to see you and you know Joe introduced me to Mary Lou and he paid absolutely no attention to me at all and you know I I found the Kinda humorous and I said you know what I'm GonNa. Go in the column so I wrote in my in that first column I wrote that <hes> a joke took me around introduced me <hes> to me to Marylou Whitney and it was it was it was equivalent of Joe <hes> in introducing his pet hamster. It was like like I wrote you know you know about her and you know went on you know I got to realize all the things that detailed and what a great lady was and you. It was <hes> it was by the way that count. Can you imagine me doing socialite column to show you how low I stooped by the way when I was up here looking for celebrities I saw Jimmy. This is right. This is right during the Dallas Cowboys Dynasty Right. This is nineteen ninety-four right right right right when the winning they're super bowls so I see Jimmy Johnson Person. I gotta get a cold but I don't want. You know I don't know what to do. Oh and Jimmy Johnson goes into the men's room so I follow him into the men's room. We're standing side-by-side at the urinals Nice. I said so Chimi. I said the first trip to Churchill downs. How do you like the Derby and you know I'm talking to and I'm getting quotes him staring standing at the euro next thing? That's what I realized I. I'm not made for this. This is not my kind of thing. No no it's not it's not my speed but <hes> and maintain the main thing with Mary Lou by the way is that where I really got to see how classy she was was after that a bird stones Belmont yeah you know it's it's easy to say that Oh someone was <hes> was said no she was usually is I was down there on the track with her and John and she was visually upset he he was almost near tears and I remember in in my column. I quoted her. <hes> is that are we we did a quote. She says I feel so awful for Smarty Jones. She's standing on the track waiting for the coming MHM Belmont and she said we were hoping we'd be second because I love smart. He's done more for racing than any horse. I've ever known and I apologize to everyone for B._G._N.. And he and he wasn't just saying this actually wait a second. I don't know owner in the country. That would say something like that. After winning the classic race and you gotTa remember is that it had been like fifty one years be in between classic victories sunny who had one you know the the Belmont stakes <hes> you know in like fifty one so whatever years that is so you know you would think that you know she hit now. She wins. You know shutting head one to balance only classics you have a one and she was and he was <hes> <hes> she he. I'm getting distracted by my wife who can't get out back door. She the doors stock and she's pulling the door here so <hes> I'm. I'm getting a bit distracted so she can't get out. She's she stuck in actually locked in now. You can't get out in the back and I can't help her. So <hes> you know there's nothing like nothing like live radio. She's pulling on the door and we got a she can't open the door so go upstairs read for a while and they'll help you get off the the <hes> anyway so <hes> it was <hes> area so Mary yes so Mary Lou I mean <hes> so you would think that she would be happy and then I went over to John and I said <hes> uh I say John. I said you know you still wanted to Belmont congratulations and John Says Oh no no no this is bad. Trust me. This is bad. Wow I mean you know anything like that and then I we were at the travers and of course everybody knows about the biblical storm that that came right after the race I mean the sky had turned not even black it turned purple. I mean it was weird thing you knew something. Monstrous was coming in and it's bird stone wins the travers and <hes> and very look down on the racetrack and then as the horses coming back. I'm in the skies opened up I mean his cascades brain just coming down in waves and <hes> and and this time it was like it was almost like redemption and Mary Lou comes out on the and she is absolutely drenched clothes clean clean sorta body and that hard it was raining when lightning and the thunder and she fell and he had the sense of the cereal you know like like there was something divine about this victory and remember she said to me she says I think the Gods Watch came out and did this all this lightning thunder congratulate him said this is you know a dream come true and you know and <hes> and then and then one of the greatest things ever is when I listened and you gotta remember by the way it is raining being so hard that I didn't want to stay out there because I had a video camera with me and I had tucked under my sport. Check it 'cause I didn't want it to get wet. I said I don't know whether to stay out here or not because it was really pouring and there's just hitting you so hard and face and Mary Lou grasp grasp whole of of Nick Zito's hand and with John and all the barn help and they're standing out on the race track singing singing in the rain just like it. We'd like this wild scene and then you know Mary Mary Lou I remember what she said to me here and then I'll I'll read you quote again. He goes he goes smarty. Jones made people all all of the country love and cheer for a Horse then when we beat him. I felt awful. She's this time I feel wonderful and I know how that birds don't did deserve to win the Belmont. I thought that was a great you know. She felt redeemed because she thought you know we know she had beaten Smarty Jones by some fluke but now the birds don't come back and run in between L.. Nick Nick Crappy never ran in between he went from the Belmont right to the travers so I mean it was just a great it was a great scene and then I had met her John After that <hes> actually met them. We look to actually met them in the parking lot of Stewart's pulled into the saints Stewart's <hes> when we get along conversation conversation but it was after that that I can't realize you know just what a wonderful woman she gets warm woman and realize while she had done for for Saratoga you know just basic basically take it out of the bring it out of the ashes pushes and build it back up again with the Museum of Dan since back and everything she did for the for the town and you look at it. Now I mean it's just I I've never seen town grow like <hes> <hes> <hes> like Saratoga but <hes> yeah and the thing is listen. I covered the Whitney every year. I can't even imagine the Whitney this year with somebody else. Presenting the trophy I think M- many people who wanted to Whitney it wasn't even so much winning. The Whitney was to being having Mary Lou present them the trophy and then after the race I would always go back in that little trustees room you know off the you know the the red door that stayed and nobody knows what that door we're just right behind all the tables and chairs on the Patio and Mary Lou would always be this. You know we say at the at the table there and everybody would be happy champagne and they had you know little spread out there and they were killed race over and over again. That's why I always got my best quotes. For All the races Saratoga go back there and talk to the owners need be watching it and I you know I find always stay but but it would go to Mary Lou and cheat sit down and that's that I table over there and and she was always so happy for the wind and we'll talk to her and she was just and I think the best thing that ever happened to her. We John I remember when John You know when they got married. You know everybody usual skeptical sales <hes> yeah one of those but why would they great together. I mean Joe Johns just a great guy himself and he's done so much but they were so good together and it was so good for each other <hes> and <hes> yeah I've great <hes> to great loss ninety three years old and I was shocked. I said what we're we're second. Maybe when I heard about I should maybe Lou Whitney died. I can't be very the witness not supposed to now. I know I know literally. I saw somebody I forget who was that it might have been might have been susie rash. Somebody wrote a note and said this is one of those people that you just you just couldn't envision not ever ever expiring I and my response. It's one of those tough things where you have to say something and you don't WanNa be trite and I just said she'll never she'll never be gone show. She'll I live on forever. I mean she. She's just a she's one of those kinds of of presence. I tried to put it on perspective about you know a bygone era. We you know which it is a chance read my column. That's right up there around the on blood horse <hes> but <hes> you know I tried to put it in perspective. What this means to the history of racing? I WANNA bygone era and just there's nobody like that left the closest one that would left with these Charlotte Weber <hes> but you know I mean Mary. Lou goes back even to another ear of before before Charlotte <hes> and you think back all those <hes> a guy I I remember meeting <hes> she'd be winning. When I was first time I was ever at Saratoga in the sixties? I just went over and asked him. I just started talking about one of his phillies. He was like a great three type. Philly was no grades back then but she was a nice really I can't remember who was was and he was so gracious and he was he was really nice. Man Just like Alpha grant you look at these people and <hes> you know album member Alexandra which stand out there every morning by the track giving everybody cookies but <hes> yeah I I missed that aspect of the game when you know when you had these <hes> spoke wheel sportsmen and they they basically rule rule the sport but they knew how to win but more importantly they knew how to lose they lost no big deal. Come back next time it was no worries about stud fees or anything like that. <hes> you know all these horses were home breads and so all these all these owners new their horses <hes> none of these horses got syndicated until after they were retired he was very rare. Secretary was obviously for for those reasons where you know the stable was had been falling apart and Christopher Henry had died and they needed to any of the syndicate him but <hes> it was <hes> it was it was a different era. It was totally different era up to say in addition to goody around but I mean the the bygone here was different it. was you have to be there to see you know now. Everybody watches races on their cell phones back then. I know it sounds crazy too young people but you earn racetrack. You didn't see the races. I mean New York New York. televise the racist on W._p._A.. X Sometimes on W. O. R. At some point but yeah you can watch the racist on a on a Saturday and you can watch the triple crown but you know most you don't have you have now with our Togo lives. We can what you now now. You can watch the whole card Yep. It's the different that's a hold a at a boon obviously for players <hes> Steve Lemme <hes> let me get you to shift gears into sophomore mode and let's talk about last Saturday and the the delayed <hes> running of of the Haskell and it turned out turned out all right and obviously a little controversy again the source can't run without provoking controversy and then let's morph into a and Jim Dandy. What was I mean? There was no way you know when the inquiry sign went up. The first thing that came into my mind was Shakespearean. Which is my latest column? That's up there now. <hes> <hes> writing about that race with the whole columnist filled with Shakespeare quotes <hes> to fit the whole story of <hes> of maximum security but the thing with <hes> the thing with Lewis is is that <hes> when he was writing in Florida you know he did have you know reputation of <hes> just being borderline on there and you know he's an aggressive writer and there are a lot of riders that are better regressive and you. You really couldn't tell the angle not certainly not enough to disqualify the horse but it didn't you know he he he looked like he crowded him in there but but but King Day was was was beaten horse already and it's just there's no room is very fine line between race writing and doing something you know you're not supposed to do <hes>. He writes that line so it was a combination of race writing and crying cloth the inside which is again. I'm sorry I apologize going to the old days but you know in the old days if you if you came through on a writer are you right gotta be blasted then writers never let anybody come through on the inside trying. Come through on Ideo Carol he literally put you over actually he did somebody came through on the inside of him and he put him over the rail and he got suspended for a year but that was <hes> you got suspended because he had threatened to do it does sport a change but <hes> no listen maximum security. I think the result was by the way that you stick it out where you there now no no no we we just ridiculous with the in fact even even before it became official we could dyke's could see what was it was a slow moving train. I mean you could see what was happening and <hes> so you know as soon as the word came <hes> had the opportunity to those spend the day with my father and that's what we did could. I thought Oh by the way I said boys. Give me a lot of cancel dinners and semi people who have seven seven thirty dinner reservations something like that and it's not even going off until almost eight thirty so you'RE GONNA change changes dinner reservations to one nine o'clock or so or whatever <hes> so obviously is change your plans but you know it was just one of those crazy things yeah. Is it turns out it turned out well. I mean the racist uses Wendorff fine but you know I you know listen. They run run the pressure. They didn't do 'cause they wanted to too. Much pressure I mean listen to governor was in on the meetings and you know all the higher ups and the protesters and you know that's that's the world we live in now. You know these morons standing out there. <hes> you know basically dictated this in all all the all the pressure that the sport is under right now had a figure something out something to do. Even though the first two races went off fine <hes> I think I think one one horse had tied up in the in the paddock or so that way yeah with the day <hes> but yes and I don't know I it it was it was brutally hot but I remember like I texted you. You texted me during the during the with with Dennis Yeah Yeah well when I see why covered you forty nine or seeking the gold the temperature was one hundred degrees and I remember at twelve o'clock and a cab had a amateur writers raise that they start off you now before the first grace so I I watched that race and this is like you know eleven thirty in the morning or something like that before the first race and I remember walking from the rail back to into grandstand end the top of my head. It was burning hot. It was it literally was burning this is this is when I didn't wear hats when I actually had hair I had exposed head and my head was absolutely burning. It was so high but it and I remember by like twelve o'clock. It was like ninety nine and went up over one hundred and then forty nine hundred seeking the goal got into the most incredible scratch tool I've ever seen I mean it was just gut wrenching Grad school from like the five sixteenths bowl for the wire and you know I mean you know it happens. I mean yeah maybe after the race day you know they hose them. All down and I went back acted barn where we you know what was back there with <hes> with forty nine hundred forty nine three fans going on but your time and seeking that went over to seeking the gold who was in next bar and he was being you know hose down <hes> yeah I don't like it but you know it was is one thing they ran the race. I mean there was never ever any sort of postponing eight or cancelling it or anything. Just nothing you don't WanNa see but it's <hes> but if there but under the times we live in now Momma did what they had to do <hes> and they got ray side of it. So <hes> you know obviously was much cooler than it was getting dark but I listen I I loved the result I mean I thought <hes> maximum security. Racing needs the three year old crop and sport needed him to do that. I mean we need somebody especially in front of his hometown crowd. <hes> you know everybody everybody on the Jersey Short and he loves his horse. You loved him. Obviously because of what what happened in the Derby you know which started off the whole Shakespearean aspect to this but you know to get disqualified <hes> and everything that went along with it you know with lawsuits and everything and the craziness but you know everybody and then he comes back and he gets be in the prep race but he had to me that was there was nothing to that ray I mean he stumbled coming from the start. He needs desperately needed the race and you know I thought you many good race. He just got beat cooking food. They ran an excellent race so it was great to see and I thought he was beat. I felt mutual. Gustavo had him be he looked like he had the momentum and that was their bathrooms going to have his ninth Paschal and till she maximum security dig in was very very gratifying. I it really was I think it was a combination of you know him. Fighting off Mutuel Gustavo and we'll go to probably not wanting that last sixteenth of a Mile Mile 'cause you remember the worst he's run in his career. was that amount it was only race that amount eighth you know he's excelled at seven furlongs a mile on the sixteenth but you know when you ran into Sunlen Derby amount eighth <hes> he went to the front and he's you you know he's I wanna say he stopped but tired pretty noticeably upbeat six lengths in the race <hes> so I don't know if he wanted that but you know forty seven and two that's only three-fifths of tracker so I mean you okay rent R- run much faster. I thought it was a terrific rates and good for maximum security. I'm actually surprised I'M NOT SURPRISED THEY'RE UP TO SARAH. They went up to Saratoga and thinking about the the travers but I tell I would be I I would be Kinda. Surprising is right or wrong but I would be Kinda surprised if they ran him into travers <hes> only only because they got game winner in there who I think right now maybe I don't know we'll see what happens in Jim Dandy but right now to me game winning stores to be going on a quarter so do you really want to tap have both the top horses when you got. You know you've got Derby. They're they're a potent their potent one two punch because at at the very least at the very least if there's other pace on <hes> maximum security helps set things up for game winner so <hes> it's why not why wouldn't you I mean it either way sacrificed maximum secure you don't have to sacrifice him this early. Sacrifice him but you know especially especially the way he you know he he didn't he didn't demand the lead <hes> on on Saturday by any means now in demand you get it. No I mean he wasn't he was just set up shop. I thought I thought that you know that's an aspect that hasn't even been really disgusted and all the all the concern about the you know about having to go up to the Stewart stand the fact that he was three wide <hes> for the majority of the race for a good five and a half six furlongs really enters into the equation. I thought it was very very good performance and the I I'm just I'm not I'm not saying he can't win. Travis Travis you really have towards like that. You want one of them to get beat. That's all the thing when you can try and win with one and then when the other I think I think when you've got to horses either of which could end up a champion I if things break their way <hes> I think you've got a I think you gotta play all your cards and if game winner wins he wins and then Pennsylvania Derby we'll see and British classic. I mean the three year old championship means something at this point and I mean by all rights. I mean who right now you have to vote today. Who's your who's your three-year-old champion well maximum security yeah? I don't think it's I don't think anybody would argue except the people that irrationally seemed to just spew venom at at this collection of of owner trainer Jock and Horse I I've never I cannot recall such a disgusting display as what goes on it constantly. You don't have to love the horse and love the people involved but the way the characterizations are just their pitiful yeah no. I'm saying if I would I would like those people if they owned horses and they lost the Derby the way Gary West did if they wouldn't do everything possible because because of not so much that he wants to purse or anything but this is your lifelong dream. This is not the way the way for you want and you got animosity everything you can you WANNA. I'm trying to get that victory. I mean even you know they did for them and I'm not gonNA. I don't think so now you know I don't know I feel differently about that part but I I would I would <hes> the way he feels. We understand the way you feel you you you compartmentalize it and <hes> and move on a degree <hes> but but that's not always said I I'm not saying I agree with it but I understand it at different things yeah. I put myself in his shoes beano. You know what I mean because I don't know I got it. I don't know what it feels like under those circumstances Steve Lemme. Let's shift out from Haskell result. Let's quickly talk about the Carlin and the Jim Dandy Friday and Saturday yeah well obviously the curl and the you know took a few horses away from the Jim Dandy which is fine. I think the horses running into curl and deserve to run in the curl in more than Jim Dandy and I I think these divorces editor just up and coming horses and listen we can you know curl and has you know curl and has produced <hes> gravity winter so there's no reason to think that can't find one coming out of here. You never know oh we we don't know for a while there. We didn't know what Chad Brown was going to do you know because he had two horses you know looking at Bikinis was horse that he's been high on for a long time and highest honors so oh for awhile looked like he might run looking looking for bikinis looking at became these in the <hes> either travel in Detroit in the Jim Dandy and run highest honors in the Kirwin right but he didn't. He did the wise thing. I mean it's it's asking a lot to be. The horses veteran the Jim Dandy so you know both those horses have only two starts in their life. Looking at became was extremely impressive last time winning an allowance race. I thought he rented tremendous race and I know <hes> Ted Brown's been high on him from from day one and we really don't know how good highest honors is I mean he <hes> he looks like really <hes> really nice horse into making but I don't know what he beat last time he was one to five. So you know this spot just to see what you have. <hes> you know pletcher. He's giving intrepid heart another shot. You Know Belmont might have just been to too much too soon. It was only his fourth career rear start. <hes> didn't get embarrassed in the race so we'll see what happens when he comes back and you know horses like little dots. We'll find out. I don't know how a good he is. I mean the race was okay but <hes> the horse that intrigues me in here is endorsed. You know this is the only thing I was very oppressed. You know he went against a real huge speed bias when he ran ran down <hes> Iran Down Really Nice Horse in his career debut and look at no shot in the race and he really came and got him and I it was it was a tremendous race and then he rushed him right into the champagne he ran poorly and he has hit and run since they brought him back in allowance race in June and he goes six one eight three so now the question is going to make Kinney go from six furlongs mile in as if he can then you've got legitimate travelers choice on your hands. You know you gotTa send medallion door out of a tap it mayor. We really don't know how could he is. So you know he's GonNa get played. You know it's also good spot for direct order. He's coming off third in that in that Pegasus behind signed for day and maximum security and he finished six lengths editor four Thorson race so you know he's he. He's a consistent voice. He's got a lot of experienced a lot of bottom under him so we'll see we'll see what he does you know and then you've got like you know. Cairo cat is making I started a year so he's a total question mark so you know I find a interesting race and we'll see we'll see what comes out of it. We'll see who moves forward and who looks like they can make that next step to travers loose and as far as the Kim Dandy you know it's only six horses but you got some really good horses in here and I find it very gonna be very intriguing race. As far as <hes> strategy goes because there's nobody in this race that's ever been on a lead. I mean <hes> he is the closest horses ever been on the lead was <hes> were of will back when he was a grass horse <hes> early in his career and now you know and that was back on the grass arrest but he doesn't want the lead global campaign likes to be right off the pace tax like to be right off the pace so the way I look at it now is that I read a tease on tax and Louis ideas and global campaign even a break on top you know they're they're they're coming out of post two and four so and I think it was going to be looking each other and I see slow pace here because they're going to be looking at all right if you want it take it all right and if you WANNA take and we look at each other and probably we neither one of them is GonNa want to lead so whoever does get legal be tracked by the other one and they'll be going really slow worth will is going to be sitting right behind them in third and then you can have tacitus in me house together behind on them and laughing Fox will be the trailer and I you know I see a slow pace and I think it's GonNa turn into a sprint at the end and you know again. I hope you know who's who's the best Dourson here. I don't know your global. Oh campaign. I don't think we've I don't think we've seen by far the best of him. He looks like it was definitely on the improve. You know tax tax tax. We know what we get from him <hes> but it's all going to be between Tacitus in war of will WANNA start looking at <hes> at thera graph. Tacitus is by far and away fast the source from the race you know yet run to three quarters in the word then and then paired up at once they nobody's visas as fast as him <hes> were of will can run that fast but he he's not. He's hasn't been consistent. You never know when he's GonNa pop his his best start. You know I'm paper. You would think tacitus award we'll or the class into race. Global campaigns the horse you just don't know about right now. We don't know how good he is. He needs to improve on his third graph numbers. <hes> left and Fox's are very if the Pacers fast like Levin Proctor Creek is really strong closer. He's <hes> he's overcome. Some severe speak vice races and <hes> he's got. He's got a heck of a closing kick even racist on paper where it didn't look like <hes> Iran well. He ran a huge ration- to preakness came from a no air not race and you know even fifty news beaten three three quarter lengths and he was flying at the end of that race. You tend the April and we we see what he can do. I mean he ran some big races that <hes> you know early in the air at Oaklawn he you know he came from way way way way back again also in the Derby to finish fourth and he won that <hes> that invitational race in Oakland and came from way out of it that race I mean it's consistent closer so I mean certainly can't forget him. I'm going better. I'm not I'm not I'm not going to say he's GonNa win but don't don't just totally eliminate people are gonNA totally eliminate me hosts in here. I wouldn't totally eliminate him. Either I mean he did beat code of honor in Mutual Macho man and then you know he's racing the holy bull ran evenly in that race and obviously something happened to him because he was out for five months in brought him back in the in Dwyer and again he ran evenly to finish fourth because of silver who had beaten earlier but in that race they went to last quarter and twenty three three so there was no in the world he he he made a a move up there and you got tired at the end but he's getting six pounds from more of will <hes> and he's getting four pounds from Tacitus <hes> and like I said Beaten Chart Yvonne he's coming off two months to work out you work forty seven three and then we're six rooms and one thirteen it is Jimmy Jerkins who would not run him in here. If you didn't think he had a shot he could have easily run them into curl and steaks and been one of the favorites in the race so I'm not saying he's good enough to beat these horses but don't be surprised if me host is just you know right there at the A._p.. Poll and you know runs a pretty good race. I just think he needed <hes> needed that list race you know now I I read a tease goes off of him to ride tax but <hes> you know he gets junior Alvarado Raido and I think that really matters one way or the other but I find it very very intriguing grace anyone to me any any one or two horses in here can be right there. It's it's a fun Greg and I you know I just I can only put them into you know three categories tacitus and war of will have a little bit of experience and level of competition and edge global campaign has got the the upside tax <hes> laughing Fox you know both are just just a notch under those two and Mike you say me hoses a horse that had shown a real potential and Jimmy is not a guy to put the spurs to a horse. He'll let them grow and of course Sadan little junior centennial there no pressure from from them them. All you have to do is look at preservationists and what's going on with him so this is a very good competitive group of six but right at the start of the show I I asked the exact same question Steve where the pace was gonna come from and the fact that you've got Louis is who loves sitting on a lead and is so good at it just feels like global campaign is going to be out there and he can sell whatever pace whatever he wants to set after member to by the way is that when global global campaign won the <hes> Peter Pan I mean he beats her Winston. So we know we know who he beat. You know people people saying he made a model. Take one forty six and three getting out that okay how fast track my Vin that day you've been one forty six and three you're running so you know and and and listen he's trained by Stanley who to means one of the best is pound for pound. Train is around Stanley Stanley tonight for those of you that are in town eight o'clock at the party glass last one of Andy Servings guests at the Post Live Stanley absolutely tearing it up and in fact <hes> he's got a horse. How about him how about sending he's got ready ready recruiting ready running in Bing crosby on Saturday right so that been crucially looks like it's <hes> you know tax rates pretty better than ever bring interesting Steve Steve Lemme? LemMe wrap it up because <hes> we're we're at an hour and I've got rich Jiang who we haven't talked to the last couple of weeks. GotTa get rich in here for an early summer <hes> visit I know I don't I don't like <hes>. I don't like hogging rich time well. I'm going to every time every time we don't get to rich. I'm just simply going to late at your feet if it was you know I just <hes> responsibility i. I wish I was put in a picture of the person who's who's in the green room with tonight. Show always gets bumped and always run out of time exactly exactly well <hes> we will see you next week. We're now seeing you where are you. Aren't you year. No we're leaving tomorrow tomorrow. Okay all right. You're gonNA miss the thing tonight I was going to I was going to have you join us. At the at the fundraiser night we should and Allison and easy goer anyway the captain gala the Captain Cares Dot Org and they're now each day. I've been county down seats. I think as of this morning there were two seats left <hes> so if you if you WANNA come and we're not gonNA serve walkable if we. We won't turn away anybody that is walking cocktail attire. Please six o'clock cocktail hour sixty seven and then things get started at about seven at the city center and the unveiling of this painting of Easy Goer which is breathtaking and Claude Ray and allison on hand and should be fun nick and Nick Zito and Kim as well and much much Nikita butter. You think Mary Lou had something to do with Nick you. You know I mean no no nobody's interviewed nick and nobody even knows he's around anymore and then people all of a sudden start bringing them out you know you've had him on new shows and these on his on every show talking about Mary Lou when he's back in the spotlight and what did you do enter the horse that used to be the best source in his barn. You know comes back. I bet thirty to one and win so <hes> I don't know somewhere Mary Lou had something to do with that about the so too so did dropping down in class. Yeah ought to deal with it. It's the best best hop is the drop stave. I appreciate it and we will see you this weekend and looking forward to Steve asking folks with his new phone and he sounded great and now now we can let joan out the back door the house. I guess we're going to stay here and we're going to sprint to the finish. This has been this has been a blurred today. <hes> three hours went by in no time at all rich and his standing by wanted to catch up with rich good morning rich dive right into it <hes> what kind of a starter you off to a del Mar and and <hes> I know you're playing plenty of Saratoga gives us <hes> the early <hes> first week ten day view. I think the great said I give to Belmar Management for the ratios they put on is is a I mean they've really worked hard to put a product out there in a safe product obviously and <hes> you know on the weekdays they cut back to seven like the seven inches like the today and they've been able to have more races on the weekends and you know the quality of racist good I I really think del Mar Nice job <hes> expense air racing and <hes> if if anything on the of course Viva it really helps to have some speed of course farm speeds and holding up pretty well and now they got the trophy thirty feet out today but I really have enjoyed the first couple of weeks. I'm glad you mentioned the the the turf course and having to be a little bit closer than usual because that is historically been a a surface where the horse that moves last does the best then disarm Oh and Van Dyke and for years Kettani I mean the the way they wrote that of course you know you kind of slingshotted link shot at your way late and in fact that's what made Ribeiro's performance on Saturday with unusual that's what made it so so impressive because languishing so far back and must've been tons the best I mean just gets up but indeed you've had to be closer than usual so that is something to watch as we go forward here. If that's GONNA change much at all how about the main track <hes> what what are you seeing there and and who are you making money with the main tracks been very fair and I tell you I flew beyond Pratt. Obviously is is having a big need. I picked him from day. One the most likely champion jockey maybe he's in all big barnes giving a lot of live horses and <hes> jockey that actually cast nice tickets for me <hes> early in this means Rothfield Toronto and <hes> he looks like a very very hungry riders. Give you know sometimes when you've been on the top of the mountain and you've been there a long time you get used to it and <hes> he kinda head a little slippage in his business but we sure looks like he's hiding it all back so he's riding very aggressively out there. I I like that Saratoga. What are you doing? You've been <hes> Sharon sharing action bicoastal taking my pops in fact I wouldn't article for America's best raising a few days ago. Oh where <hes> you know I talk about mean track only or she's which is something that that New York does quite often and I think it's a very good angles for not only newcomers but for you know for those of us who play the raises all five don't when the racist come off the grass at Saratoga it's not a is not a fold up erasing for him in the past. You actually should look those main track. Only horses in the one example I used in my column was a racer. Guess about ten days ago where I mean track only pay like thirty dollars seven Kevin always enough to shame shame you cannot let those opportunities pass by well and in fact <hes> that was the Ron Paige Lucci <hes> and the the horse was so obvious ah you know coming off the turf that I it was astounding and I banged drums to <hes> I is one of the one of the amazing portions of horse racing seeing discussion these days on the Internet <hes> the the the way in which people just have snap decisions and throw up their hands you know for for a long time I when it comes to the wet track years ago I I was intimidated by wet track off the turf and I didn't know how to play it and you know slowly but surely I I started to get better. You know a better understanding branding and you know you listen to you know we point this out. All the time I mean Eddie Sterling for years has explained to people especially at Saratoga where there can be dead money in the pools that people and abetting the race sometimes as if it was still on the grass and they're they're completely missing in the not just the M._T._o.'s to rich because there's plenty of horses that outfits are entering because number one if it stays on the grass they they might answer a question about their horse. They might be trying to find out about an aptitude but they also may have looked at the forecast and known that if this thing comes off we've got even better shot so the the way in which people just say oh I can't play oh today's Today's a washout. It's ruined your could go ahead. I mean if that's if that's your attitude. I don't really understand why you're even. Why are you even playing why? Why do you pretend that you're interested in the game and making money because there's money making opportunities? He's every single time under that scenario. You know I couldn't agree with you. More Stephen. You know a word that I heard used by <hes>. <hes> you know people when you handicap horse rations almost like you attack it with a toolkit kit and you have a lot of tools at your disposal a lot of angles you try to use utilize and you know I really liked this angle that we're talking about with <hes> races that come off the Turks because <hes> I really think that we were not I actually think sometimes people flirt a little bit on a lazy and the better as you said earlier as just a racist on the grass and they don't take into account the changes and also you know main track only or it's a lot of times you'll get entries as high as Number Fourteen fifteen sixteen and a lot of people ignore the outside horses <hes> even if the army track only choices so a lot of times not using all the tools that you disposal trying to find winners and <hes> you know even Kgo eight draw sixteen and scratchy eatable met or grass horses you know you still got plenty of meat on the bone the chance to make some money and no doubt you talk about the the horses that are fifteen sixteen occasionally. They're on their on the next page and that's the worst feeling there is when when you realize after a race that some Moore's like a fifteen or sixteen and you realize Oh my God there's another page and somehow I didn't turn. I didn't turn the next page age there was that there was that widow on the on the last I never saw of course everybody has everybody has. If you're saying never happened to me. You're a liar. There's a lot of ways to win also many many ways lose and that's one of the right exactly right <hes> looking ahead to today. Let's you got a couple of maybe maybe a player to today a rich discuss well yeah awful my sheets. <hes> you know that they put out every day. I have a ratios obviously the southern California track we'd use dumb on our night simulcast like <hes> the I'll give simulcast play voice 'cause it's at Saratoga focusing on that in that reached number four. I went for the number three horse bail out <hes> the prices in the two times too but the to me looks like a most likely type of winter <hes> bailout so that's the number three can reach number four and then as far as <hes> Del Mar today <hes> let's go to race number four at del Mar.. It's five for a long time the grass and an angle with <hes> maybe using other the tool kit your casual tickets is shipping lean angle L. and very very affecting <hes> for not only helping to fill races out. You're in southern California and recruit Mojos ship out from around the country but also you know I think the connections trainers know wonders of these ship and win or she's no no that that boost in the purse really makes it a very very attractive situation than the in there also you know <hes> paying defraying the cost of shipping out there and if they keep the horse out there then it's a home run for online for the California track you get these eastern <hes> influences race number four. I'M GONNA go with a two-horse stylishly of the source you've been trained by Sherry devoe back east and <hes> gives a turf sprint. Salmon Callaghan is listed trainer for this. It's really but I think it would Drayton van backups as worse. It's going to be awful. Dangerous probably be sending off. Maybe the BAFFERT always the one ran the WHO probably is the most likely speeds of the race and stylishly probably be sitting second or third right off of that one so Alica tour stylish before at delmore well and you mentioned <hes> that that ores that <hes> Arnold Zetter it's a home bread of Zetsche irs and Cherie did have <hes> stylishly and what a perfect opportunity to bring it from Kentucky was training keeneland and bring stylishly back out to California and I'm I it's. It's funny that you went to that race because as it happened I did imprint of this because it's sort of caught my eye eight eight horse field because of the of the sprint configuration and so that Kinda limits your options stylishly does make a lot of a Lotta sense brought this race up to because of cellar door the very expensive two year old in training sale purchase from two years ago. This is a four year old debut for Jeff mullins and the they the cannon thoroughbreds people have been patient trying to get the cellar door to the races and certainly after spending five hundred twenty five thousand you know they wanna get something Eh from her at the very least you WanNa get a horse like this a win for her broodmare prospects down the road so you do have a question of of that first time starter and the the Mandela we don't won't know for a while about scratches but Mandela also has got a congrats philly that is that would be a first time starter. If in fact tinny had some way of getting in <hes> we also talked about Brian Corner yesterday with road racer the quality road philly for Samantha Siegel as well that kind of some quality of about her and you gotta figure at some point she wins but no I think you you probably you're probably ably landed in the right frame. I I just looking at first turf statistics because <hes> rename the Baffert as you mentioned on the rail the Fed Biz actually getting some turf winters the twelve percent <hes> actually yeah twelve percent with horses and twelve percent first time turf Bob Africa put one over yesterday he <hes> in race number four yesterday yet to horses in and he won the race with a horse ahead and run in two years and paid twenty plus dollars going wire-to-wire on on the other baffled ran a good second so it was a baffert exact in a in a big one <hes> you know one point I want to bring up is interesting. He pointed out the marlins first time starter at the number six Salvador of four year old philly first time starter within the first race today at del Mar.. He'll says another for you all first time starter for five five take Tampa and <hes> you know I'm I'm trying to figure out whether I should look at a four year old first time starter as a positive or negative because obviously that means Jeff Marlins was unable to get these two horses to the race in each to at elite three but now with each or they're making their debut. I mean united a negative or positive or look at that as you. It's hard I mean it. Generally generally older maidens like this you you know they're they're. They're KINDA doomed. <hes> a little bit <hes> you know in terms of of their career prospects but <hes> you know whether they're poem breads or whether they're inexpensive purchase like <hes> like cellar door was especially for phillies. You do want to get them a win and in some cases you'll see horses like this <hes> if they can't win on the ace circuit they very quickly will will find their way to A. B. Circuit and just to get a win yeah especially at the end of the year whether it's a late season three year old or or a four year old even a five year old and the owners want either put them in a sale or maybe you know maybe cover them and and <hes> seldom down the road once they're enfold but you need to get horses like this a win that makes perfect sense. You're you're right about the possibility of affiliate remember when they go to the breeding shed you you want at least something bring on the on the resume if not black type at least a w in the media especially exactly exactly so you you know and I'm just trying to get my hands on my <hes> because I hadn't really looked at at California but <hes> wanted to see what what what Harrington's thoughts are you know. These are horses that you then want to get a glance at at how they've been working and that's really the only the only way you're going to talent. Here's a quick some speed inclined to see a stronger late kick on <hes> Say Tanta and when it comes to when it comes to sell her door seems down the line more needed by now not exactly <hes> glowing endorsements from Andy Harrington so I don't know if mullins if today's the day for the mullins I there's or indies really good so if he says the hasn't been working fashion that that's that's something to take into into account pitcher rich and everybody and as rich I mentioned the monthly piece at America's best racing and add race day Las Vegas dot com rich ing as daily analysis available for del Mar and simulcast play and you follow rich. It's rich aiming for pro. Pick on your twitter machine and his picks also featured spotlight picks on big days at Brisbane net rich. I appreciate it and we'll start to check in toward the big weekends that are going <hes> become an fast and furious as the summer on Wines Steve. I appreciate your reaching out to being the bowl band and I'm always ready to write haters always read the Las Vegas Dislike Joe Nuxhall the old left hander rounding third and heading for home. We're doing the same we're going around third head for the racetrack because <hes> twelve forty five I post for the Smith Wick looking forward to that and I wanna wish Benji or and Carlisle Bella safe trip today in the third as if she can't <hes> stretch out in that spot going nine Brian Lynch looks tough on the front end boy Lynch Lynch I WANNA thank Bill Gallo and <hes> Michael Komo Morgan that was fun informative his <hes> his breeze product and Tony Black Steve Asking Rich Agan Joe on the board as well back with you for weekend preview tomorrow H. R. R. N. coverage here on Sirius X._M.. This afternoon three to seven good luck to everybody talked in the morning gene bullying Jews down and.

Mary Mary Lou Derby Joe Saratoga Jim Dandy Marylou Whitney Bill Gallo Steve Steve Nick Nick Crappy Smarty Jones Pennsylvania John University of Louisville John You Van Dyke Mike Stewart Steve Lem University of Louisville Equin mets
BONUS: A.D.A. NOW!

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1:03:11 hr | 11 months ago

BONUS: A.D.A. NOW!

"Hey there first listeners it Sunday and we have a new episode for you. This month marks the thirtieth anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act which is considered the most important civil rights law since the nineteen sixties in an episode of through line NPR's history podcast, Robert, tonner Louis, and ruined up. Delta. Look back at the making of the disability rights movement the history of how disability came to be seen as a civil rights issue at all and what the disability community is still fighting for thirty years later. Before, we start the show we want to give you a heads up that there are mentions of sexual assault and other heavy content in this episode. Was Nineteen fifty two and I was seven years old and. I had been feeling a little bit survey warm and feverish one afternoon and I remember sitting on the screened in porch in explaining to my family that I just wasn't feeling well. By the next morning by dad came in and said, why are you still in bed at pastime you usually get up and I said I I don't think I can get out of bed Within. About twenty four hours I had been hospitalized and it was pretty clear that I had contracted the virus. I was born in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, five, I'm a twin and my mom was having my twin she did not know she was having. Him She had my sister at home and. Kind of went about her business 'cause that's tha did back in the day. And later on got sick and went back into labor and she didn't know what was happening and so scattered up to the hospital in I was born weighing three pounds in almost died at birth. I spent the first few years of my life pretty much in and out of hospitals and clinics. I had ice surgeries. Caesar's at started and when I was real little and going through a lot of hospital stays, I would hear the doctors tell them my parents to let me go. Just, let her go. You've got another child. When I was born, they gave me the expectancy of four to eight years to live. I was diagnosed with I feel genesis perfect which delay person may know as brittle bone disease. During that time, you know when a child is born with disabilities, always these predictions about their life span. So I think that's basically what my grandmother's giving at that time. My grandmother raised me from birth she grew up in rural file during the Great Depression. The so win I came along I could definitely see how that really influenced. Her and raising me she always tell me how children like me disabled folks didn't go to school particularly here in on small town. Carolina. So I love that like would be incredibly different if she hadn't rained me. Obviously, the polio epidemics of the nineteen fifties were Legion and families were always very worried that there would be some exposure for their kids in the summertime I remember continuing to ask my family. If I could go back to school and everybody was for dodging the question is I remember because I think they didn't really know the answer would be. So you have to understand by eight seven I was reading World Book Encyclopedia I was Reading Health Encyclopedia of and so I knew you know the word autism what it was I knew that it applied to meet. I was like, yeah, this is all me. If you looked up autism in the dictionary of offensive me by next to it. It helped me to accept myself better. That I wasn't this. You know this weird old there was a name. You know there was a name. Back then they did not diagnose black children particularly little black girls with autism, and so I knew that that was one of the things that was going on with me but it wasn't diagnosed. There was a lot of just generic suspicion about somebody who had a disability. So e never really knew if you went to a restaurant whether the owner or the. WAITSTAFF, even be willing to see you. So you know on more than one occasion I would go into a restaurant with a friend and would be told that they didn't serve people like me. I was told on a couple of occasions I would be upsetting to other patrons. People are very ignorant in how they view what is normal or what is quote unquote right. And not understand it. There's no such thing as mobile. You know disabled people have always been here. We are trailblazers and have always been in all right whether you recognize that a month. I'm Rhonda Data. I prompting OB- Louis, and on this episode of through line from NPR. The history of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Thirty. Years ago the Americans with disabilities act the A D A was signed into law. Simply. Put it prohibits discrimination based on disability? The ADA is considered the most important rights law since the landmark legislation of the nineteen sixties, the anniversary of Ada, comes right as our countries experiencing a new civil rights movement. With thousands of protesters pouring into the streets for weeks on end in the midst of a pandemic fighting for racial justice, fighting for economic justice and demanding new systems that reimagined what's possible for this country and its people. The Americans with Disabilities Act became law. Thanks to another political movement that four society to reckon with the question of who really belongs. In this episode, we're looking back at the history of how disability came to be seen as a civil rights issue, the movement behind that mission. And what the disability community is still fighting for today. Through an producer laying Kaplan Levinson tells this story. After the break. Hi, my name's Carlos Ortiz I'm from Miami Florida and you're listening to through line from NPR. Until recently Admin Hong says he didn't speak out against racism because he was scared. GonNa. Listen now on the codes which podcast from NPR. Support for NPR comes from Newman's own foundation working to nourish the common good by donating all profits from Newman's own food products to charitable organizations that seek to make the world. A better place more information is available at Newman's own foundation dot org. Part one hidden. For, most of American history people with disabilities were supposed to be hidden. This is Joe Shapiro on the author of a book called no pity people with disabilities forging a new civil rights movement. Joe's in investigative reporter at NPR, who's been covering the Disability Movement for more than thirty years. Let's talk about what now we call the ugly laws. These laws that said that someone who's looks were deemed offensive they weren't even allowed out on the streets. So we're talking about people disabilities. In the late nineteenth century, these ugly laws were enforced all across the country. Let's just read what was written into the Chicago City Code in eighteen eighty, one, it list the people were not allowed in public quote. Any person who is diseased maimed mutilated or in any way deformed so as to be an unsightly or disgusting object. People like this are not allowed in public places or they can be fined. Discrimination against people with disabilities goes back before the nineteenth century the Bible itself depicts disability not as a natural cause but as a punishment for disobeying God these messages spread through religious texts, cemented people with disabilities as outcasts of society, and they informed a deeply flawed ideology turned serious scientific study by the early nineteen hundreds. We've got the rise of eugenics right Darwin published the origin of species. There's this belief that people with disabilities are a subclass of human beings at their danger because they threaten the human race. eugenics was a term coined by British scientists Francis Gutmann. In the late eighteen hundreds, he advocated for improving the genetic quality of the human population by breeding desirable traits others sought to weed out the undesirable ones like criminal behavior, poverty and disability. So this is a racist belief and it's one that targets people with disabilities and justifies putting people in institution institutionalization was fueled by these eugenic beliefs. It accelerated in the late nineteenth century as large facilities were built up in Europe, and then America to provide care to people deemed unfit to live in the community. These proclaimed misfits were often forced into these institutions against their will as another way to systematically segregate them from society. And then there are sterilization laws another eugenic practice which was put to the test in the nineteen twenty seven Supreme Court case buck versus Bell. Carrie Buck was born in Virginia in nineteen o six to a poor single mother who was accused of feeble mindedness and prostitution and sent to an institution carry was put in foster care. When she was seventeen, she was allegedly raped by her foster parents nephew and became pregnant. After she gave birth her foster parents declared her mentally deficient and committed her to the same institution as her mother, the Virginia Colony epileptics and feeble minded. That same year Virginia adopted a statute authorizing the compulsory sterilization of anyone the state deemed genetically unfit. Carry was assigned to be the first person sterilized this law she challenged it in the courts but in an eight to one decision, the Supreme Court upheld the law. Shortly after the trial Carrie Buck was sterilized against her will and Justice Olver Wendell Holmes in deciding the case infamously said, three generations of imbeciles are enough. That was the prevailing idea prevent them cure them, and when they exist, hide them after the buck versus bell ruling states adopted these therapies ation laws all around the country resulting in nearly seventy thousand four sterilizations that continued into the nineteen seventies. These laws ended up inspiring Nazi Germany's ethnic cleansing. It would be the Nazi eugenic said ends up shocking the world right the first people to die in the Holocaust, they're disabled. People, in Germany they were considered life unworthy of life was the German phrase. They were the I to die before six million Jews, and then after World War Two, there's this worldwide revulsion at this as horrifying images of Nazi concentration camps, surfaced photos of life inside American institutions also started to emerge to picking eerily similar inhumane conditions. There were pictures of these horrible places where people were naked and lying in their own filth. American saw these and they're shocked because they echoed what they just seen from the death camps. So this is what starts a movement. Yes the United States has gone wild with peace. Pope's ball world that everyone green devout is really here and the American people making up for lost time the plate after the war America race to return to normal. But they couldn't ignore wasn't the same their family members veterans who had returned home, but my daddy walks funny. My husband is blind. Can't walk by himself. My boy mold ever walk. Again. A lot of people came back from the war with very significant disabilities, amputations, spinal cord injuries. And so on. This is Mary Lou Breslin. I'm a senior analyst with disability reducation and Defense Fund, and I live in Berkeley California. You met Mary Lou at the top of the episode. This is really the first period historically were people live through those. Of Injuries, assumptions are just gonNA live in hospitals till they die. And they fight this and they start saying, no, we WANNA live regular lives. So there there's this effort starting this human rights movement after World War Two, they don't WanNa live in institutionalized places they don't want to be in anymore. Policemen vide comic and leave the hospital and take their places in the world of which they fought. All they're asking is a chance to proven private. New. Whether or not they thought of themselves as activists. World War Two veterans were leading a sort of Proto disability movement, and one of these veterans turned activists was a man named to nugent. Philosophy of veggie. Protect people with disabilities, but rather equipped them to me all of the hazards and challenges of Life He. Very radically, thinking for his day, just dreamt up the ways in which would be possible for people to function on campus a program for handicapped individuals out it I could not. Ever. See a college education things like adding ramps to buildings, moving certain classes to the first floor retrofitting buses to accomodate wheelchair users ideas that were pretty much unheard of everywhere else eventually became a permanent program at U. OF I. Champaign. Urbana. And this was the nineteen forties. We'll are physically disabled students including north confined to wheelchairs those I level or neck level balances are pursuing fifty six curricula in ten colleges and divisions of the University of Illinois. They're doing just about anything than any other student move do. And by the time, I got there, which was you know fifteen years later this was the nineteen, sixty two. It had more from a program for veterans. Mostly men mostly men with spinal cord injury to a program open to civilians modeled after this idea of you have to be able to sort of master your environment and you have to have the skills and psychological capacity and commitment to be able to do that. You had to meet the world as was the expectation was if you had to crawl up the stairs to get someplace, that's what you had to do. Because of this philosophy, the school scope of accommodations was limited looking back on it. We think of it as exclusionary in many ways because if you had a disability that required by personal care assistance with dressing and bathing and so on. He would not be admitted if you had those needs but even that was very progressive for its day. So really looking at decades and decades ago. This was the mid twentieth century it was a different. A different time. So, I was born and grew up in Louisville Kentucky. My family was basically middle to upper middle class. My Dad was a road contractor. Mary Lou was a Catholic schoolgirl knee socks skirt the whole deal she caught polio one summer and ended up paralyzed in her arms and legs. As a result she started using a wheelchair after a stint in the hospital and then rehab she was ready to go back to school but there was a problem I was not able to get in any of those classroom buildings. They were solicited old campus with a lot of the old stone buildings, lots of upstairs. So there really wasn't a practical way for me to be able to to return her parents were not satisfied with the options that left them. I could have gone to something called the school for crippled children, which would have been a segregated isolated school setting or she could be home schooled, which in many ways was equally isolating but her parents that done that for a while and found her a tutor by the time, she was a teenager though. Mary Lou was determined to go back to a real school with other teenagers. They identified a public school that was outsider area. The school only had one step up to get inside the building, not ideal but better than a whole flight of stairs plus the school agreed to accommodate her whether or not. They had actually thought that through. So I was enrolled I was dropped off on the first day of school and I looked at my class card and. Realize that I had classes on the second floor and the third floor, and then back again on the first floor and there was no elevator. So Mary. Lou went up to her homeroom teacher and was like fo-. How do you suppose I get around and he was a funneled about what to do and off to get the principal and so the principal got this idea that the we're we're going to solve. The problem was to carry me up and down the stairs every day he got together a bunch of football players and told them they were officially responsible for getting Mary Lou to class. They would meet me at my class and they would stack their books on my lap. So be peering out over the giant stack of books and each one would grab a quarter of the wheelchair and lifted up off. The ground and run just as fast as they could up and down the stairs it never occurred to them to move the class from the third floor, the first floor rather than carry me up and the stairs every day. But there was one place the football team couldn't take her the bathroom. So to plan for that by not drinking too much in the morning and just being careful with with I fluid. Intake, meaning. She didn't go at all later it occurred to me that it would have been pretty easy to have done a very simple modification which would have required just taking a door off bathroom stall would have made it possible for me to use the bathroom. But just the fact that was there at all was session serve exceptional outlying situation that modifying the physical environment was not something anybody was thinking about. After High School Mary Lou went to the University of Illinois in Champaign Urbana. She graduated with a degree in sociology and moved to Chicago. Feeling. Optimistic. About, finding a job but months went by with no luck. So in order to pay the bills, she settled on something, she never would have imagined herself doing selling light bulbs. It was one of these jobs that took advantage of people with disabilities to sell lightbulbs over the telephone. We would pitch the White Ball by saying I am handicapped worker and I'm selling this lightbulb that's going to last a lifetime. I wasn't good at selling light bulbs. At all, she'd be qualified for a job, but she couldn't access the building it was in she tried to cross the street and not be able to get onto the sidewalk because there was no curb cut should be out shopping or eating or doing anything in public, and just like in high school, not be able to go to the bathroom. It was just a difficult problem pretty much every day to try to figure out. How to get from to be there were these endless physical barrier standing in her way And then there were the social barriers one of the most meaningful. I think for me was trying to go to a movie as a midnight movie with a friend of mine is the middle of the winter. It's freezing. It's cold. It's raining we're standing outside of theater. And we monitor tickets, and then we start to go through the door and the. person who was in charge of the theater said Oh we can't let you end. There's no place for you sit. So, we're standing on the street rebound told can't come in because I use a wheelchair, my friend who was with me that evening for standing in the rain and freezing and twelve o'clock at night and he said. You know that is a civil rights violation. I was. Struck, you know struck by that idea. Nobody had ever suggested to me that the fact that I couldn't go to movies or be seated in a restaurant or go to the bathroom or get into a place of business that could potentially work was an anything to do with civil rights never occurred to me never was was new news and it was it was like a lightning bolt and I talking about. You know we were political on other issues at the active in the civil rights movement in anti, Vietnam War Movement, and yet it never in a million years occurred to me that I was being discriminated against by not being able to be seated in the theater I bought. It was wrong. I thought they should let me in never occurred to me that it was a civil rights issue. When we come back, disability activists decide to adapt the system. Not Themselves. Hello, this is amber from phrasing, Minnesota and you're listening to through line from NPR. How do you maintain a friendship in the middle of pandemic including our last restaurant meal my last restaurant with you I love that. Too so an an Friedman gave me some friend pointers they host the PODCAST, call your girlfriend and they wrote a book all about friendship listen and subscribe now to it's been a minute from NPR. Support for this podcast and the following message come from K. Bucks bound in support of the David Gilkey and Zaba ULITSA Tomato Memorial Fund established to strengthen NPR's commitment to training and protecting journalists in high risk environments. Pert to access now. Ed Roberts was a California boy born and raised in San Mateo when it came time for College Ed Dreamed of being part of the growing student activism seen at UC Berkeley. So he applied in nineteen sixty two and left out one thing that he was completely paralyzed from the neck down except for a few fingers and toes he sweeps in an iron lung, this large tube that breeze forum, and then if he goes out, he needs a portable ventilator on his wheelchair. Gets accepted to Berkeley. But when they find out about his disability, they revoked his admission the school said quote we've tried cripples before and it didn't work. But ed fought back in his own attempt to integrate the university. System. Reluctantly, they accepted. Him. I was the only fables bid on the campus. There was very weird stared at all. Make clear that they didn't want me there. Suddenly other paraplegics and quadriplegics around California hear about this experiment with this man. At Berkeley and they apply. And so a bunch of them end up in this one place they called themselves the ruling quads. We've been three or four years or about twelve of us. We really begin to feel. But we're fighting for our. Independence. And if there was a future for doubt in the community. We had to really think through how to do it how we were how were we can make ourselves free They started a group on campus to support themselves, and then as they're graduating from college, they WanNa make it out in the world one at the university. So all you'll finish her PhD. And then you'll live in a nursing home but I said, no, that's not complex. We're here to change that whole idea. So, Ed Robertson get some federal money and they start the first center for independent living. The Center for independent living was founded in nineteen seventy-two they helped those Berkeley students. We've Berkeley it helps them figure out where to find a job how to find an accessible apartment outta put a wrap on an apartment or a house. It was disabled people solving problems, themselves and other disabled people. It started a movement, a movement that starting with Disabled World War. Two. Veterans tended to focus more on physical disabilities than cognitive and intellectual. One's a trend that continued with the modern disability movement born on Berkeley's campus. California is the hotbed. Of Disability Civil Rights activism it starts there it's spreads and it goes up to the ADA. Mary Lou Breslin didn't know about Ed. Roberts. When she felt her only option was to enroll in the University of Illinois Program in Nineteen, sixty two, the same year he got himself into Berkley but some time after that night at the movie theater that moment she realized she was being discriminated against she started rethinking the mindset you of I had tried to instill in her. It wasn't her problem that the movie theater wouldn't let her in it was the theaters problem and one for them to solve. Those see was definitely planted. At that point she started hearing about this movement forming out in California, and by the nineteen seventies she was living in Berkeley working at the Center for independent living I was very quickly caught up to what others had been working on in terms of advancing disability rights policy. By that point, the movement's biggest achievement was one little piece of a big federal law section five, zero, four of the nineteen seventy, three rehabilitation act. It was really one sentence that says you can't discriminate on the basis of disability if you get federal funding. It was modeled after title six of the Nineteen Sixty Four Civil Rights Act at has much of the same language title six prohibited discrimination on the basis of race color or national origin in any federally funded program section five four did basically the exact same thing except swap race with disability this new civil rights statute of the Nineteen seventy-three Rehab Act was a complete game changer because for the first time, it recognized that people with disabilities experienced discrimination, and for the first time the law itself focused on transforming the environment not the individual shifted the burden from the person being responsible for managing everything and dealing with social isolation barriers to. Responsibility being placed on society and community, and it was historic because for the first time with this abilities were considered a protected class. So section five of four is written into this larger act, which is great except nobody paid any attention to it. Nixon four nobody wanted to enact it. They thought to be too expensive. How are we going to do this and they ignored it? When section five, Oh four past the Department of Health Education and Welfare Hew was supposed to come up with regulations that laid out what antidiscrimination protections needed to be put into place things that cost businesses and employers money like building a ramp or hiring a sign language interpreter accommodations that would actually address the architectural and communication barriers people with disabilities feast, but those regulations were never implemented. Never implemented the act and now the new hew secretary Joseph Califano says he will sign it in May a handicapped to sign up now. So. There were demonstrations around the country over a period of years and in nineteen seventy seven at the start of the Carter Administration more than one hundred people with disabilities takeover a federal building in. San Francisco and they stay there is the longest takeover of a federal building in American history if the I really militant thing that disabled people have ever done. And we feel like we're building a real social movement along they put their lives on the line. These are people who. Needed attendance. So they for the other medications without their equipment, and because of that, there was national press and a focus on really for the first time the issues they're tired, they're grubby, they're uncomfortable, but they're spirit's soaring. And one, hundred and twenty-five disabled and handicapped are pledging. They'll continue the sit in through tomorrow night if not longer. squeezes. Ondo. Hot Water has been turned off on the fourth floor where the occupation army of cripples is taken over. They stayed in that building for twenty six days. And they forced the Carter Administration to enforce the. A major civil rights. Thirty five million American handicapped Americans a big victory today. But Hew Secretary Joseph Califano sign the paper today the implementation of the law began. I think it was the most effective in acting as an. Agent this is the beginning. It's a huge tremendous beginning. It's really a a leap forward for us. After five Oh, four Mary Lou and others founded the Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund or Dread F. A national law and Policy Center to protect federal laws like section five, zero, four and advanced new ones by the late eighties their sights were set on the Americans with Disabilities Act. I'm over simplifying here but the ADA was like section five, four on steroids. Well, it globally accepted and promoted the idea that it's illegal to discriminate based on disability five. Oh, four only offered protections to federally funded programs and activities. The ADA protections would be sweeping and brought in. Compliance it applied this nondiscrimination mandate to employers with fifteen or more employees to public and private transportation to tell communications and to what we call public accommodations. Ron feeders, retail parks, all kinds of places you go to every single day. If signed, the ADA would prohibit discrimination on the basis of disability in all of those arenas and more whether they were federally funded or not. So for instance, whereas five four couldn't have forced the movie theater that shut its doors on Mary Lou to figure out a way to accommodate her the ADA would. So what happened was I? Yes. I was assigned to cover a press conference. I believe about the introduction of the Americans with Disabilities Act, which I had never heard of. And I went there and was listening to this piece of legislation being described as a new frontier in the area of civil rights and that just caught my attention right away. This is Steve Holmes a reporter who covered the for the New York Times 'cause like many people I really hadn't thought very much about people with disabilities attended to view them of objects of pity or sometimes even something or someone that you tend to avoid as opposed to a sense that these people had a right to be treated fairly. People just didn't. I didn't think about him that way I must confess. But something changed when Steve started covering the issue he realized disability was not only still largely ignored by people like him but stigmatized in society and it was like a vicious cycle avoiding the issue is exactly what perpetuated the stigma. I remember specifically, there was a one activist. who had difficulty speaking and had difficulty with control of his facial muscles? And as a result, he would often basically drool all over himself. Right? It was not a pleasant sight. He was I will confess sometimes difficult to look at. I realized after a while. This is exactly what this issue is about people that forced you to look them course you and that's that's the whole point the issue forced you to see people as they are. One of the reasons disability was so invisible was that the media barely covered it no, there was no disability beat that I knew of no not even a beat. Now in the health section, there was often stories about disabilities, but it was usually look at from a medical perspective as opposed to a rights perspective people with disabilities were saying we don't see our problems as problems of healthcare it's not our disability. The issue is the issue civil rights, and once Joe and Steve started it that became abundantly clear it so reminded me of black people at lunch counters. In. In the south and the fifties and sixties or gay people at Stonewall at moment you realize that people are really serious about demanding they. I didn't have very many friends might twin sister was and is Non Disabled And so things were. Pretty different. She was very outgoing and I was a bit shy because I learned to read really early books were my friends. This is Anita Cameron who you also met at the beginning of the episode My name is Anne. Cameron I am director of minority. For. Not dead yet. A national disability rights group opposed to doctor assisted suicide in the nature of people would spills Anita did well in school and was on the path to her dream job. I wanted to doctor was going to be a neurologist. And I was all excited. She got into med school with there for A. Couple of years and I started losing more eyesight and my epilepsy got out control and the universe the they just said okay sorry. Find another career path. This was nineteen, eighty, four those shortly before my twenty a perfect. There was no such thing as Americans with disabilities act back via. So there was no support. I looked at that letter, you know telling me to choose another career path. and. It was like, wow, that was a punch in a good. I was depressed depressed I felt like a failure and I just kind of wandered. You know just hopped on a greyhound with nothing but a couple of bucks in my pocket. Clothes on my back and. Just kind of wandered. Eventually Anita found her way back to her hometown Chicago and got involved in disability justice work specifically working with a group called adapt adapt Americans disabled for accessible public transit I found out that adapt was disorganization that did civil disobedience nonviolence civil disobedience did direct accent. We went around the country protesting Greyhound protesting the American public transit. Association you know all of that Anita jumped in and soon learned she had joined a group with quite the reputation we were considered radicals and militants. Okay as special because we're all poor people, we're all disabled people living on a fixed income, and so we were we were seen as a bunch of rag tides unwashed. Proletariat I mean look we were not considered respectable and that was the reason why a lot of you know the powers that be a what not would not meet with adapt some critics say it was more that adapt wouldn't meet with the powers that be regardless. They weren't the ones negotiating the terms of the ADA groups like dread F- were the ones at the table. While they were meeting with the respectable people we adapt the. Radicals militants we were out there. You know keep pressure on. kipp kept on blocking buses, shutting down buildings and and things of that nature while Congress listened to testimonies import over new drafts of the bill adapt was getting impatient and in March of nineteen ninety we were. The capitol. Crawl. There are hundreds of people. Out of their wheelchairs. And crawled up. The steps of the Capitol none of them could walk until they all just you know painstakingly one step at a time who is. The second class citizenship, you know that held to just bring awareness. Not just to the bill, but again for the ability to be seen. The ability to have people. Look at them not turn away or not look at them in pity or not turn away in disgust. But just to view them as as full. Contributors to the society. I was one of the ones who participated in that crawl up I went backwards carries someone's wheelchair and it was very hot and I get really exhausted and sold the rest of the way up I literally crawled up Studi. But Trump and up the capitol stairs it was amazing. We were crawling in history we really were. We were calling in history. After the capitol crawl most politicians from both parties supported the bill. Still the odds looked pretty grim. Washington was not very open to civil rights laws, but another key supporter turned out of the and turn out to be President George H W Bush. He had won election in nineteen, eighty eight. And he had been vice president on a Ronald. Reagan. Compared to his predecessor Bush had promised a kinder and gentler nation. Now, the White House was Roy split on the way he had some advisers who were vehemently strongly opposed to the ADA and there are others who might. and. The ones who liked it succeeded because. They realized that George H W Bush can understand disability. There was disability in his family. Walk. Barbara Bush big issue was illiteracy teaching people to receive hi I'm Barbara Bush. Did you know illiteracy in this country could be eliminated by the year two thousand the case to get our young people reading now. Why the reason will turn out one of her sons Neil had dyslexia. And Barbara Bush had spent a lot of time when he was in school helping them read. And she was told the Bush's we're told all he'll never go to college he did but they dealt with his learning disability George and Barbara Bush had dealt with tragedy. When a young Robin died she was three she died of leukemia. So, there was disability in that family they understood him. This is what drove most of the. Biggest political allies, personal connections, every family deals with disability. It doesn't matter if you're Republican or Democrat and that's what helped push it over the finish line. So on July twenty, six, one, thousand, nine, hundred, George Bush signs the all this joyous bill signing I believe it was a really nice day out there in this splendid scene of hope spread across the South Lawn of the White House? I. Remember George Bush seated at a desk signing and all these activists and senators are surrounding him then George Bush says I, lift my pen to sign this Americans with Disability Act and say let the shameful walls of exclusion comes tumbling down finally come tumbling down God. Bless you all. Everybody. Knew this was been deal this was a really big deal. I was elated. Wow, this is a whole new era for people with disabilities I thought. that. Beings with just. Change. Life after the Ada, when we come back. Hi Dan Collins from Sydney, Australia and you're listening to NPR. I love the show this until. I seen as you have to come out. Thanks so much for your work. Support also comes from the Walton family. Foundation where opportunity takes root more information is available at Family Foundation Dot Org. Part three, Eighty, eight generation. The memories that I have is definitely post eighty with going to school who a year later episodes passage. Know there my life. Yes I really don't know a were really. Without, eighty? Eight. My name is valid Thompson I may social worker activism either assaulted. A whisper allowed? By Elizabeth the third person you met at the very beginning of the episode when I was born, they gave me the expectedly of four to eight years to live. Luckily from me my mother. Is LPN. Is She noticed I wasn't. As active in universal in moving so they're really allow doctors to start to suspect that. Something may be going on and. I was diagnosed with osteoporosis and Perfecto Vyas was born in nineteen eighty five with what's known as brittle bones disease. She remembers going to the doctor as a kid a lot. Of broken phone. So so my childhood is kind of a mix of. You know medical staff big Sam. With kind of normal childhood stuff. Because she started school soon after the Ada passed, she was one of the first to reap its benefits. So I've always in K. through twelve I had an aid at a healthy get to and from class and so on. So forth. When I got to school where we have kind of heavy books authors, I was given the ability to. Have a set of books at home and at schools had to Lome around in my backpack. So I just feel very fortunate that. Than my needs that I had. I. was there from the beginning like the moment that I started school garden. It was just something that I thought everybody had until I realized that that wasn't the case. I was a student in what we call mainstream classroom, which is the clinical regular classes and those maybe a handful of us. That was EMESA dream everybody else was under the. Special. Education. Classes. Is Ways created this. What we call it mood day. supercrew dynamic you you're a student but you in Mesa class that which your Typical or able bodied classmates or at least perceived to be new. Classmates. A super CRIP is a common stereotype that paint someone is some sort of heroic figure who overcomes their disability or defies the odds in some inspiring way and You are apparel in a way that students who are not in those classes. Or not. So. You know it's separation. Of Disabled students by? In the class, there was even though we were all under. The Special Education Umbro. By, the was Hurok me that existed. Just really created that versus them. Dynamic that should not have this. It was just very disturbing Beza here educators or. Teacher's aides say about. Another student in front of a student. The, wondering why they're even bothered me the brought to school. Even. As a kid I knew how they were talking about students. Were No K.. I imagine that things that are said, you know in the Teachers Lounge. Wall I listen was getting the resources she needed in school. The world outside was trying to catch up the ADA passed in nineteen ninety but there was a multi year window to implement accommodations, things like curb cuts and sidewalks, teachers, aides, Braille sign edge. So cities, schools, business owners they had to figure out how to make all this happen and how to pay for it. You know the ADA is basically. An unfunded mandate and it's those of us with disabilities who are the watchdogs. And You know, why? Why should it be the those of us who are pressed have to beat you want to like continuously fight you know for you know. Rights and the make people do what the law says that they should have to do. The ADA is one thing does one thing Extremely important way, but it's a civil rights law. It's not self executing. You have to go out there and make it happen. You have to file complaints in you know talk entities into complying and. Follow lawsuits you have to use it. You know it's a tool I think the thing that angers me so much as a price put on the freedom of people with disabilities or prices put on the rights of people with disabilities. Because of the way the law was written, there was no ada police and no eighty bank account. This lack of enforcement end funding meant that the one big fight to pass the Ada then broke into a thousand tiny fights after it became law a lawsuit to get a ramp here a petition before the school board to get large print textbooks, they're all fights meant to make it possible for disabled people to live fully in society to be seen in the world. But the didn't solve these problems overnight or even thirty years later. You can go into a doctor's office and still not have access to accessible examining tables, accessible scales, things of that nature. When I go to the emergency room with my wife. Okay. She's deaf. We still have to fight to get an interpreter. Even though these fights continue the movement itself has evolved. Joe Shapiro says, so has the mindset. Before the day or people with disabilities were used to. Fighting for what they could get Now, the ADA generation, the people who grew up protected by the they have much higher expectations. Of The promise of the ADA. They expect. Full. Opportunities to everything in American life jobs and access to transportation places to school. And the ADA has chipped away at the long standing stigma changing the way people relate to their disabilities and themselves. So younger people are much more likely to say they have a disability and the claim a disability as an important part of their identity and claim it with pride. younger people have a broader definition of display writes they've expanded it to include disability justice. that. When you talk about disability issues, you have to look at it through a lens of protecting racial minorities and and other marginalized people. Identity is something by Lissa thinks about all the time she's now a social worker and runs a blog called ramp your voice where I could talk about disability from effectual liens from different angles that matter to me when you politics healthcare. SEXUALITY SEX GENDER IS Location Entertainment Act, just talk about what I see in the world around. For me I never get this world as they black sable woman. You can not force me to just focus on disability and Matt my blackness of womanhood particularly be glad woman from sow especially, you can't do that. But she wasn't seeing that representation in the community. So she launched the Hashtag disability to white to shine a light on who gets seen. You know the ones that gets the most attention in overtime beauty as a drowsy is, what's the women's stories and experiences that get same more? It went viral and when things go viral, there's praise and there's backlash what people are upset. Now if the first time in my life that I was called the N. Word and I, was called the N. Word on twitter for a bit of ours. And it really showed me that. Astronomers be. The. Ham. and. In a word for that long white civil folks soon don't WanNa, wreck acid they have white privilege can oppress people cover just British show that we are long overdue for for these type of conversations in the community. And I, think particularly for activists a my generation. Genetics and then no coming up behind me. Are they were out of really in the community have honest conversations. You were you were four or five years old when the was passed and that was thirty years ago you know in thirty years what do you want that five year? Old Kids? Living with disabilities life to be like. I will like for the community look less white. Our light for the stories told to be less white. I would like for Zabell students save with children, special color to see themselves more in their schools in their communities on TV you know online. The elsewhere they don't have the hunger for that. So that the children of today. Don't have to go without. Those stories, those faces That some listed. This is one part of the struggle for visibility that the younger generation is fighting for today. Another is something that the disability community has been fighting for since the very beginning. Keeping people out of institutions. We're living with a legacy of institutionalization in the US. This is a legacy that has been. Perpetuated something sent by federal policy, which allows federal dollars to be used to institutionalize people but not to allow them to be supported to live independently in the community on the ADA has intersected with this issue through the instead decision. Olmstead versus Elsie is the groundbreaking Supreme Court case in which two women with intellectual disabilities and mental illness diagnoses challenged institutionalization. The court ruled that under certain criteria, people with disabilities need to be provided options that allow them to live in their communities rather than being institutionalized against their will this was a big win. That decision has spurred shift in. How much federal money goes to institutionalization versus community supports? Now, more than fifty percent of federal money is now spent on to unity living opportunities rather than institutionalization, but that's thirty years later and it still only fifty percent though. So let's further that we have to go. I mean, this is the age of cove it and we're seeing this disposable or expendable i. keep thinking about what happened to Michael Hickson and Texas the disabled black man who was denied Kobe nineteen treatment. He called copen nineteen the nursing home was sent to a hospital. The doctor decided that specifically because of his disability that he had no quality of life and so they refused to treat him Kobe nineteen. They put them in hospice and. With Hell Food and liquids and? He died. So we still have a long way to go society accepting us is people with disabilities. We talk about police brutality have of the folks murdered and brutalized by police are people with disabilities. You know there are laws in place in whatnot but. I think our society has to catch up to make sure that we're part of this that we were not second class citizens that we're not disposable. People are the largest minority group in this country. And by you resisting, you're saying that you don't care about the participation of the largest group that has power that has buying power has Florida power. You know bad have all these things back. In. Shape society. We have. Such enormous exclusion still to deal with which is rooted very much in poverty and in. Racial. Injustice that the great message of the ADA gets a little bit I think camouflaged and over shadowed by these remaining challenges. But I, do hope that the the media attention is not only on. The people who made it possible to have the ADA but also You know the real story is that we really have seen a transformation. In Society in a way that's ultra necessary or forced take the next steps. You know the really transformative aspect of the day. I think is about Making it possible for people to be out and about in the world and have a right that they can assert in water different situations, and by doing that people are more likely to be feeling that they that they are part of their communities they belong and there were likely to be perceived that way socially. and to me, that's the most important message of the thirtieth is to celebrate the extraordinary things it's done. And how it's made a difference in so many people's lives. You know overall it was a life changer I? Mean I'm talking to young disabled people. Who never knew a world before? The Ada? Never knew a world. If the AGA had been around back, then I would probably be a doctor. But you know it was a blessing in disguise because I got to do I think so much more with my life. You know doctor might see you know over a career a few hundred maybe even a few thousand patients. By the work that I've done, I got to help millions upon millions of Americans. That's it. For this week's show I'm Rhonda Fateh I'm teen Arab Louis and you've been listening to through live from NPR. This episode was produced by me and me and Jamie York Lawrence will lane. Kaplan. Levinson Shouli came he amoeba Tastes Natalie Barton. Fact. Checking for this episode was done by Kevin Vocal. We'd like to give a special thanks to Sarah Liederman. Our editorial advisor on today's episode. Also, thanks to Alex Wong Pat Right Arlene Meyerson Hye feldblum Maryland Golden Lex Fredin and Heather Watkins for their health shaping today's show. Thanks also to the disability rights education, and Defense Fund and to the adapt museum for some of the footage you heard and finally thank you Camille Smiley on your grunting. I music was composed by Ram teen and his band drop electric, which includes. Marvi show Fujiuwara Anya Meson. If you have an idea or like something you've heard on his show, please drop us a line at through line at MPR dot org are hit us up on twitter at through line NPR. Thanks for listening. And that's from our NPR podcast through line you can subscribe to it wherever you get your podcasts. New Episodes, drop every Thursday I'm Steve Inskeep, and this is a Sunday edition about I will be back on Monday with all the news you need to know.

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Living in God's Rhyme Podcast Episode 1

Living In God's Rhyme Podcast

54:53 min | Last month

Living in God's Rhyme Podcast Episode 1

"If you give him the time you live it. Work rhymes welcome ladies and gentlemen. My name is dave and my name is tim. And this is the living. In god's ryan podcast living god's rhyme is talking about our journey and especially my brother. Tim's journey with god and with his poetry which is in reality christian poetry. How and why. He came to be doing this. How he's doing it and and how it's changed his life and how it's changing mine at the same time and we thought you'd enjoy hearing from us so we've got this new thing that we're talking about every time and i'm going to turn over to tim for a second. Well thank you dave And i would just like to. I would like to start with this if you give him the times as you live. His word rhymes that. Who's i think that's why we're here so i'm going to let him talk a couple of minutes about what we were thinking about today on episode number one because you folks are here on our inaugural podcast. This is number one. What you've heard before is just a trailer this is it. You are part of our group now and you are special people and we want you to hear special things from us. Saul at tim. Take it over and what we'll we'll get started. Thanks dave I to start with a dedication for this podcast. Being our first one in what i've done is taken a the dedication out of the first book. I wrote called god's rhyme and i would like to read it in dedicated this poem to the book and also to the podcast so This is it. It's called dedication. We all know that. Jesus son of god and the holy spirit completes the trinity from the beginning of time and even before jesus as god was holy spirit rate of the earth in all we know is good so oh not always mentioned as jesus this book and podcast or dedicated to him to whom we relate in human form may this glorify his holy name and also bless you as he has blessed me in knowing him better inexpensive growth which even now continues it is therefore incomplete. It will be a never ending journey. I like that. That's great stuff. Smith a you understand folks while we're doing this because we want you to hear these things. is slots from orman end. His is great mind. I shouldn't laugh. After saying that. But no i. I was just laughing. Yeah something. Tim had mentioned in the in in the trailer is at an days. Explain why we're gonna laugh once in a while we're gonna laugh because we're both not so serious that we can't laugh at each other or at ourselves in my mind in my mind. I don't like being so serious. That i can't laugh at myself so that'd be asking a question i i know you. I know i've known you all my life. Like i said all your life all my life. No not all my life all of your life. Yeah but how long have you been writing poetry. Well i started writing when i was in high school just Loved music. And i liked the thought of writing lyrics and as i told One radio on one radio interview. I had a. I was at a love struck boy in high school looking for the right girl to to like him. There are other things that i wrote about too but It started in high school in. Its it continued through college Osceola the beginning of our marriage. my wife and i and through the children and into really getting the time when i got to really know who jesus was to this day so as weird as the sounds. You know folks i mean some. Some kids in a family are very very tight knit. I mean 'cause there for one their ages are very very close. Something you need to know about. Tim and myself is that tim is seven years older than i am. There's nobody in between us you there fall. Who is number one child and a couple of years later he was gonna love here in that in the and then there was number two tim who came along a couple years later. And then there's dave seven years later than that. And i never knew that you wanted to write lyrics and that's why we're going to hear a lot. You're gonna hear this from me a lot. I never knew. But i knew a lot of this but some things i never knew and knew that you were into music and i knew that you were also more of the The romantic then. At that point in time i was well. Seven lie in fifth grade. I don't know how else but in in in really wanna i look back at it I kept poetry to myself. Pretty much when i was in high school. It wasn't something. I shared a lot. It was just something i enjoy doing. Spent quite a bit of time in your room when you weren't out highways. Thought it was me. Because i was annoying but you can say i overcame that after. What maybe you're fifteen birthday. Thank you know. It's only because i drink with you. Then just we just convoked on so you kept it to yourself but when you were Were out with. Let's just say maybe on a date. Did you tell the person you were out with that you were at you enjoyed poetry and and enjoy the righty. No i get the first. The first girl that i shared the poetry which is my is my wife. Now mary lou. We had met as one evening With friends Mutual friends and it was summertime and this local state park which is a few miles north of town We both had been up there the same day and spend some time together and she found out. I wrote poetry. When i gave her a poem called the brown paper bag poem on a brown a grocery bag and that jeeze the first one. That probably knew that i wrote poetry are mom and dad. Didn't mom new mom new I don't know. Dad knew. But i doubt if dad new dad made if dad knew he may not have remembered. I don't know a lot on his mind. No and then of ause writing through college. And after i got into college i had one manuscript that i submitted to they called a vanity publishing back then self publishing you paid more. That was accepted but Riguy making a couple of bucks an hour. Mcdonald's i wasn't wasn't i could afford but it was accepted which gave me encouragement to continue on. That's great so let me ask you this. I know that when we were growing up we grow up or grew up the piscopo alien which i now call catholic light. I think you're the one that told me that's what it was was either. You were paul. Said it was catholic light but yeah but it will probably did back now but it makes sense to me but you also have. Dave loses train of thought. Real quick there. But i'll get it back as on talking. So dad was for the longest time dad was was pretty big. Especially when we lived in crosswell michigan. Dad was pretty big in the church. If i remember right he was he was he was what was called a lay reader and that he would be in the best months in march into with the professional with the Minister and he did Read a couple of of the readings. I will readings curve for the service and then he would again. Walk out the processional Yeah and there was And then after we moved the Here on He got involved in the local church local fiscal church. That the there's two in town to one that he and mom decided they wanted to attend and he was the Sunday school superintendent. I remember that. Yeah so for f- for many years he was involved in in in in church I don't know about you. But i remember what is growing up. I hit a certain point. Like once i was i went through. We call it catechism After that and and maybe a couple of years later like twelve or thirteen. I was given the choice to go or not go. I don't know if it was really a choice. I i might just said prefer not to go anymore. I still went once in a while. I just wasn't every every week like i should have. Did you have that option. No because i think i was I was either away at school at that. Point in your life Or maybe it was before. I got married right now when everything changed with me so i'd like to the segue if we could if there's something else you wanna talk about about the era like to segue into what changed for you or me and to where year s not just for you. I mean because there. I i remember watching the whole scenario. How you went from this brother timothy to this brother tim and and it was. It was interesting for me to watch and you it also listen to it. So why don't you tell us a little bit about. That's story if you would mind. Sure be happy to well. Yes grow up in the episcopal church and during my college years especially when i had gone my last two years when i was away a church stopped for me in when i came back I don't think mom and dad were going to church off at that time either and It just it wasn't something. I thought about something that Meant much to me at the time. Little side story. i can remember that In my late teenage years. I would at the end of the night. I would thank god for getting me through the day. I knew he was there. But that was it. And then when i met mary lou and proposed to her and she said yes she would be happy to marry me In getting she was catholic and she was very very strong interface stronger in her face in mine. And i thought okay. We'll get married in a catholic church a interesting because we when we went to see the priest about setting a date for the wedding and mary. Lou asked him if i needed to take a classes are rca classes which is right of christian initiation before we got married. He says oh no. He's piscopo close in. That was number one easy step for all right Heuer's later or first child was born for her son was born and at that time to the To the people at work had gone to this thing called marriage encounter which the catholic church put on that was The purpose was to make good marriages better and they asked us. If we would attend they would be you know. They want us to go. So so we went and It's a weekend Of reflection and talk about your with your spouse about things and talk about his What he the heart in your life you should play. And there's a three couples lead you through it along with the priests and the police chief larry done and he Was a local priest Free set our lady of guadalupe mission and a lot of of some of the people who had attended marriage counter after that weekend would start going out to our lady of loopy end We also did in fell in love. With larry larry was a guy Just full of jesus. Just full of jesus Mary lou always said if you got a hug from larry was like getting a hug from jesus really uh-huh so After a couple years there it was is interesting because it was. It was always felt so good that you never wanted to leave. A music was uplifting as sermons. Were uplifting it just the whole the whole experience was really uplifting The the people that that attended church os in the congregation. They were all a blessing to all of us. And so i thought to myself okay. We're going to have a family. i wanna be. I want us to worship god together. I don't want the kids saying well. Why doesn't day. I'd do this or why. Why doesn't dad a member of the church. Why isn't that. I thought we needed to be unified. So i went to larry and told him i like to be confirmed. It's interesting because before. I was confirmed. He still gave me communion which is no wait a min. If you're a non-catholic you can take communion with festival church. We did you did but the catholic church is different in that you. They only give communion to catholics all visitor to the church. And you're not catholic. They will not give you communion okay. I'll be because of their belief and how that all works anyway so larissa churchill i. We met At a at the rectory and we went into we just ruined. He says okay. I like to take the next six weeks reading the bible finding out. Who cheeses is that. We did for six weeks at was my initiation last class. I said well he said given questions. And i thought questions i get all kinds of questions but you only want to ask was need confession. Didn't think he did. But if you want to okay so We ended up. We have five kids and They went to catholic school which was a half mile from our house and We so we started going there to church and just over the years. We're there for a number of years but finally about eight years ago nine years ago. I just got really restless. I said there's more to this. There's more to this than i'm. I'm getting out of it and i had started with larry after larry might poetry. That's when it turned to christian poetry. I started going to the classes with him. Or was it the be. It would be before. Roy moore so it was probably nineteen seventy six or so seventy evan. Seventy seven or so that 'cause Yeah the classes start for more than a year after we started going to church there and i forgot where i was at but We're getting back to larry and poetry changed. Yeah it's amazing. How similar brothers can be in what they forget. Where am i so any post giger. Give yourself time you'll be here i Anyway i my poetry changed the christian poetry and But and i continued writing. I did have some dry. I had a dry spell a ninety. S where i just i dry spell was relentless my face but Like i said about eight or nine years ago. I just felt god move in my life and said tim. I want you to go elsewhere and I i left there. I went to a couple of churches in. I ended up in a evangelical church Am i writing continued at actually at Actually got better more more intense more More face filled. And i learned a valuable lesson. actually i learned this lesson before i actually left the catholic church In my discouragement. I talked to a friend about being discouraged Wanting more he called a friend of his who called a friend of his who had a local Mans bible study On on tuesday mornings. Maybe it was thursday morning at seven o'clock and he in his friend secure we. I'll give them a call. Give give him a call I i had cell phone. And i usually don't answer numbers i don't recognize my phone rang. It up it was a man who was Had this a bible study interesting side note. He looked around the block for me now back then back then he well known in town I met his wife Louis wife A coupla girls played with their daughter occasionally But dan and i had never met. But i experienced a lot of girls there. It became church for me Couple pastors there. Some businessmen and But the thing that really sparked the My desire to continue was a. Dan also had a local charity called. Bridge-builder helped a single parent families or and help them with their knees in their struggle and He had invited me to one of their banquets. And i think it was the second one i went to. He says es mi. I join him poetry by that time and he asked me if i write a poem. I said sure. I'd love to write a poem boat builders so i'm go there i'm sitting there. I got my notepad. I'm i don't think. I wrote anything worthwhile and then i came home and i do all this research They have the divers from james Regarding care for when you care for the orphan and the widow you god is in his holy place and So i was researching data gun at old testament thing's in finally i had three or four pages of notes written. I sat down at the computer. And i for the very first time. I prayed to goddess at your Your lord help me write this. Give me the words to write. The palm ended up being written at nothing to do with any. They're not took none of the research. Mome dan lobb And for betty didn't yeah. So i learned after that pray before right and i found that that usually was the case i would i. Would you know at times at night. I'd be reading the bible. And i get to a a line and one of the versus. Say why there's there's a poem there. And i come in here into the computer room in turn on the computer and wasn't the same thing. I thought it was going to be much better. So that's That's all the country came about not everybody is a poet. is Fonda poetry or a fan of poetry is iphone also a few times. I think a lot of people think of poetry like they think of ballet I mean if you think about it it's it's an elegant and graceful medium that that gives you joy and peace all the same time where ballet gives you the the actual you know visual the great poem gives you the visual in the mind that if it's done well and done to your liking your genre nra then you're gonna get enjoyment out of this. So that's how. I equate equate poetry especially now Having lived the life that i've lived in involved with a dance studio and ballet. It's amazing to me how much those two kind of the correlate together because you're both painting a picture they're painting it with with with their movement and you're painting with your words and every time i read one of your poems i i have a vision of something right. I see something or i think of something. So that's that's how i look at it in for those that don't then i. It's not that. I feel sad for them. I just hope that one day they get to. Where i'm at and can say wow that really that really that really moves me and i never thought i'd ever like bali. I don't wanna do ballet for dance studio part of a part of a dance studio. I didn't dance. I was the back end. tend to. I did all the other stuff. That debt made everybody else's life easier. I learned to enjoy just watching it and it was the same thing poetry for me. You know that. That's that's an interesting comparison. I myself never would have thought of it. But i i can see your point there. Yeah i just saw that works. The parallels are absolutely uncanny in my mind. I mean and that's how i look at because you know how many guys i gotta go to the ballet on my. You know the wife or the girlfriend. It's like it's like pulling teeth. But but once they get there they they come out with a different attitude and if they don't they don't know themselves and that's that's interesting. Which reminds me of a time in my life when i after. My first book was published That i get have a conversation with a with. I who who wanted to know why. Why wrote poetry This was at my very first book signing at a local christian bookstore. And just so. I get this right to read after a lot of the poems in the book. There's a reflection on what was going through my at the time when i wrote this. What led to it So i'm going to read this so at go. Smoother it says poetry why would one read poetry. Maybe this will help at a book. Signing for god's rhyme. I headed discussion was a filmmaker from canada yes. Canada is across the river from here on had this discussion about the first sentence on the back cover of the book. Life is a continuous poem. He didn't understand that. I guess for him. Life was seen through of view of camera lens so for him life was a continuous movie. He was a movie maker in toronto. for me there is a poem in a we need in a child storm joy sorrow in especially in the goodness of god in the joy of our salvation. In the searle that led to our salvation. I'm not sure that everything we experience about can be seen through her. Is i do know that. All that god has for us can be seen through our hearts in it is it is in our hearts that poetry is born where it is seeing where lives and thrives so why poetry because it is how i see who i am a great i am and then i added this at the end says. Poetry is a series of short chapters that allows the reader to follow the polish journey with. Let's face it. Fewer words wipe poetry. There's a while the last line has said that. Been really kinda kinda. I don't wanna use the word pound. But i'm gonna use orange pound a kind of pounds at home Tim and i are comes from a family of carpenters. We do income drives a home. So why poetry. Because it's how i see who i am through the great i am and that is gonna turn into big brother another hashtag. Sorry if we're gonna say these things online on this podcast because true because that's a great line A debt just outsource that just that you thought of that. You wrote down blows me away. Well i found that. If i see my life through god with the help of god my life is so much better muscles complicated. Less stressful and i have hoped that i never had before. I have the hope. I have cheeses in his death his resurrection. And god's grace that allows me through face to accept what jesus has done for me in the promise of eternity in heaven that is to him. All things are possible in three books to me. Ooh yeah i. I'll be honest. My we're going to get into deeper in future episodes folks about tim's journey with god and we're going in deeper into into my journey which took a different road into ems. Did and i'm going to be upfront and honest with you. Right very beginning. It took a different road and intends to The i think in paul to. I don't know but it was my journey and you're going to hear about that. Can i interject one thing here. Yes yes and. I think it's important for the listeners. To hear this too is that you're the one that came up with the idea of the podcast. It was your idea to To help me promoting books. But i firmly believe that god gave you that idea and i see his work in you in our preparation to get to the point where we can record this so I'm thrilled. But i i want people to know that god. I've been amazed in my life that people got put in my life mr little little things. I'm just frustrated for a minute. He'll put a person in my life. That changes might change my day. So i just see his work in both well. I'll be honest with you. I i do too The reason that i thought of this and wasn't just to say gee. I think tim needs to sell more books. People need to know more about you and your books and your writings and they also need to hear about other journeys in this in. This process is living in godhra. It's just what i think. I mean god still. Rhymes is a great book and god. Rhymes is a great book and living. In god's rhyme is a great book Do you haven't read them. Folks please go out and purchase on. There'll be a link below in the show notes to where you can buy them at amazon or barnes and noble But you know please please go out and buy them and purchase them can follow along what we're talking about and and follow along and tim's journey and and get some insight into his world and his thinking because he thinks like most people should not like all people do so i just wanna get that little plug in for us. Hey tim knowing that mother's day's coming you write anything for mother's day. I wrote a poems about her mother but not one specifically about mothers day in the books but knowing that we would be Having this podcast. Today on mother's day. I did write a poem again. I'll be honest with you. I liked the poem. But i was again hoping it would be different. Kind of flowery but This this is where i was led and it's simply called mother's day on this day. We pray with our sisters and brothers. Lord we pray for our mothers who gave all they could so hopefully we would know right from wrong all while singing the song song of love and winter gloves song on warm summer days in early morning as they nurtured our growth as having taken an oath to protect us from harm around their necks is a charm that other child children love their children's love. Yes shower dome from heaven above your lord. Our prayer today is that our mothers may rejoice in us following. Jesus i just look at the world today and in mothers and you and i had a wonderful mother. yeah very loving and supportive mother and we're blessed. I agree with app site and we were blessed and the in. I look at at around the world today and i just i just wanted. This ended up. What my thought process went to in the end was. I want this for all mothers. The mothers that are struggling. And i know there's mothers out there struggling and i we need to pray for them all our mother but every mother out there with a child i pray for For mother's then are struggling to. But it's i also pray for for mothers who are not struggling because i pray that they show the ones that are struggling. How they're doing it to make maybe maybe make somebody's life easier. I mean that's part of of of what. God i would i would hope god is saying you've got this figured out. Help others well and it's interesting. You say that because we've talked about the next few podcast and there is a poem that retin talk. What have i done for you today. And is the fact that yes. We need to pray but we need to do more than pray. We need to offer help just as you're saying and but i do pray on today that mothers are having a blessed they They're able to be with their children. And i pray for those who are sick who have a an illness or disease further healing for a miracle that god can give them a so that they not only can see their children but if not today one day. Grandchildren mothers are specially boy are they. I don't care who you are. You all had a mother. You know what. I realized number of years ago. And this was i opening but I believe there's a reason that god made women mothers the mothers. The reason being women have an intuition that men don't have when it comes to children when it comes to babies. They have an intuition and i. I learned that being the father of five kids. I bet yeah. I did not have intuition to my wife when it came to those kids. Dave i did okay. But i mean she the things that she was aware of things she needed to be done that needed to be done. I was unaware of and that's why women have that intuition that we don't have their the mothers and and beyond honest also. I think that there's a strength that women have to bear children and to excuse me but raise them that men don't have and there's a reason god gave that journey or that burden to to the women that was that was a special creation when adams ribbon formed eve. Then he said. Now you'll do this just can't so There's a couple more things. I wanna do before we get. We start pushing towards the end here because we don't want to Keep everybody too long here but we do. We wanna keep here forever. Get intimidate i keep talking for hours and hours and hours. We have been before we started this new really guy. We started talking to love her anyway. And as Folks it's It's it's it. It's a joy to be doing this with my brother. Tim and it's really really strange. I mean i'm going to be outsor- for a few years for a few years in the last eight or ten not that we've grown apart but we just haven't been in close contact as we were because a proximity. I've moved to florida. Tim state of michigan and other brother. Paul state in michigan Not that i was asking you to move down to florida with me but something that that dame needed to do and dave's always been the the wanderer as it were. There's a song about but it's it's you get to a point where you can't you can't have the closest you can't have the conversations every day that you would have if if you were living in the same home town and driving by or stopping bio time. We don't have that because none of us lived in the same home town after brother. Paul went to college. He never came back to the hometown. After i moved out first time i never came back to our hometown so it was very hard but you still have a foam and we still do but has made life easier for all of us as it has no as cell phones and all this so it was very odd and if folks if you can hear the dogs in the background barking you have my apologies. But you know sometimes dogs bark and and that's just the way like this. Hey i've been known to to Yeah as long as you're not biting your okay right. I have a muscle of a folks i i. There's a couple of things. I wanna say to about by brother tim before we we get into the next portion of this is that tim had timid mentioned. He has five children and and i have met them. He has some grandchildren. I have not met met. i've met eli. Eli is a very special child. He is a he has a gene. he's a forty year old and a eleven year old body and eleven year. old body gets yes. he is he's when i met him and years ago he was. He was a forty year old in viral body. And i could see that right away and paul's fall son. Jim was a five year old in a forty year. Old a forty year old and a five year body. If i go buddy we have a lot of smart kids which is probably a reason. I didn't have any because those smarts once you guys really. That's that's not what i'm saying but you've got great kids in mary. Lou have raised by great children We were talking about. you're talking about. We were both talking about giving back in first thing. I thought of was your daughter. Aubrey in how she worked for habitat for humanity for how many years i mean ball but i mean that's if that is not the ultimate giving back i don't know what is in my mind as you're helping others build a life i just i just blows me away. Yeah that's that's true. actually. I've written a poem for habitat. One day we'll get to it. Yeah i would love to get to that. I think that It's a great organization. I i wish. I had the i could make the time to volunteer. And i'm sure there's something going on around orlando area but anyway so Got an idea What about Another poem for us. Okay i have one picked. Oh yes And just one because the books are in another room for an went. Oh okay that's fine up. Is this from from nia. Gods ryan book It was written during that time when larry dunn was part of our lives and Finance joy of jesus called for you to he. W oh thank you. Jesus for loving me for being able to see that. I am more than i think can be when a world seems to swirl around and sounds are blurred somehow. Your love is heard you given me your life loving wife sweet joys of a baby girl in a little boy. I have been blessed. I just need to take time to look between the stress of a world. Wants what is mine. I know i don't often tell you. I'm so often overdue in remembering it's not just the words but more the actions that are heard with us. Oh i have a new start in seeings. Utilize ford is not with my eyes. But now i see with my heart. Thank you jesus. When i think of us for it's your life or living we have so many thanks to be giving good. I'm sorry. thank you word word that come from in if you don't if you understand what i'm saying well it's just one of those things where When once again is that okay. I've been blessed. I have been blessed by god. Jesus has blessed me and. I don't always acknowledged that. So you know. I- emitting to that. But i i but i i realized to jesus i i've had a new start. You know i. I can i as you read his word in in the truth of his word gods were in as you pray about this then You see the truth that has that is a more powerful. That it's the truth. it's the truth. Not allies allies that we hear from in world or not the truth and And i wrote a poem about through. What is truth. the Excuse me again. As i was thinking about this and the blessings i had and the fact that i'd been negligent in in being a faithful thanking god for those And then i as. I kept going. I realized that Thank you jesus. When i think of us when i think of me and him together with menu walking him him walking with me holding my aunt. So i can't let go and it's There's so much to be thankful for that. He's giving just so much to be thankful for. And it was a day when It must have been obese swings back from the late. Nineteen seventies early eighties. But i'm it was a day where obviously i was really happy with my circumstances the fact that I've been blessed. And this is some of what i've been. Blessed with. that day is what. I felt especially blessed with This is really strange and folks. Were getting near the end of this podcast today. But i had this one question that just kind of popped into my head in and let's see how you answer if you don't have an answer that's absolutely fine. That will give something to talk about next time. Okay but do you believe that the original poetry you were doing before you turn to christian poetry godless saying to you. I want you to start writing poetry. Or i'm giving you this gift to be able to write poetry and we're going to let you write whatever you wanna write for now to practice for when you're ready to write for me. Yup i do believe that God is patient. He knows he knows he knew what he wanted me to do. You know a knows what he wants us to do. All not going to be doing the same thing but those years of practice Were helpful and then. Uh 'cause i i. I don't know how i could have started it by Hadn't been somewhat prolific earlier in writing an infound that desire and the love of writing poetry. Because i can't believe knowing you as i do whereas i didn't even that you would have started right out writing about god and and and and what you're writing in your personal autry today or even back in very beginning if you had not gone through that in the very beginning regular starting you and and and and progressing into poetry progressing into into christianity and catholicism and everything else there's nothing that god can't do for you enough that he you know you you can't just take him out of the equation because you may not believe at the time of your face was weak in what he doing for you. He will lead you where he wants you if you let him in. It's just a matter of timing. His timing his timing. And i think that's very important statement to is if you let him or when you let him know it's my life's changed a little bit in the last few few months because of this process at tim and i are going through with podcast in and we're going to save that for another episode. Probably two or three. Probably the third one but it's important to know who we are We're going to get deeper into. Who and what we are on the next podcast I also believe. And i don't wanna put a lot of dead air in here but i also believe that once you get to know us you're gonna wanna get to know more about us because i believe too and i have read read. We've also lived very rich. Lives and our own way Mine was all over the country. And and tim was smack dab in one place most of his life. But tim did away. And we're going to go into those things too. But i can't wait to hear your more and i'm sure our listeners have the same thoughts. Well i hope so so. That's my prayer for what we're doing here and again just to reiterate. It's god's timing that's gonna that's perfect. I mean that's perfect. There was my first book wasn't published until years. After i had finished the guide new wasn't ready to go out and talk about it. He waited until he waited until the right moment when he knew that i was willing to follow what he's where he's leading me. That led you into some uncomfortable. Positions are places. Didn't it probably. I'm talking about the public speaking. You know the book signings and the public readings talking about anything embarrassing. I'm just talking about the nets not who were no. No but it's what you can do now. 'cause he gave you that you gave you that strength you gave me. He gave me the public speaking. This is not a problem but didn't give me any Any of the poetry that you have and we're going to leave it at that. I can go any deeper into that. But he gave what we both needed to do. You think he did. Yeah i really do because never bothered me to be in front of fourteen or fourteen hundred matter to me You're gonna listen to what i gotta say if i'm in front of you but anyways and if teams in front you're going to listen and you're gonna learn so tam do me a favor Why don't you if you have the seattle thought here. Why don't you take us out with a prayer. And then we'll Will say goodbye. And we'll look forward to talking to these folks next time unless there's something else you really wanna get into no. I think we've pretty well gone through what we talked about. Errand a further discussion would lead into what we wanted to do. On the next podcast or two But i i want you to know Everybody to know they're that i've enjoyed this. This time talking with my brother about about these things about my face and listening to him. Talk about what's happening in his life in wisconsin It's been a true blessing. And i do hope and pray that all of you are listening. We'll continue to listen to our journey. But i would like to end our this. Podcast with a with a prayer of thanksgiving Before we close your heavenly father your hand is on this podcast that you're doing as you want us to do through this podcast. I thank you lord for what you've done with my brother With david In Asking me about this podcast. And the fact that he is proficient in what he does Having other podcasts of his own i pray lord for the people listening i prayed lord for those who don't know you don't know jesus for That's through this They will find a reason to go and search for their lord and knowing that my journey dave's journey of not imperfect That others who have been through those trials and tribulations of doubts will find comfort in knowing that there are others lured like us who have gone through those moments have come out Come out Unscathed the times. We were hurt but today we are living with god and living in his in the hope that we have hassan. Jesus prayed lord Plus souls again listening in that David i would continue to issue in prayer and that we would honor you who are conversations to poetry and we prayed lord in the name of jesus and as a final closing. I would like to say again if you give him the times as you live his word rhymes. i have one thing to say. That brother amen. Amen brother hey mandate then all you listening. Yes so both ways gentleman. Don't forget if you like what you hearing had to subscribe. But if you like what you're hearing tell your friends when you see us on facebook like us. If you have a concern or a comment you can find us on. Facebook dot com backslash. God rhymes and we will answer your questions or your concerns Again this is dave. Saying by. And i'm glad you're here i think correction yes please. Facebook is god's still rhymes god still wrench still rhymes. I'm still s when it started when the second book came out. Yeah so god. Still rhymes tim. Carter was yet Look up folks so again this day saying by this. Is tim saying goodbye. And i have a great week. You too bye-bye later folks

tim dave larry Tim mary lou catholic church crosswell local church local fiscal chur larry done larry larry jesus Mary lou larissa churchill dan lobb orman Osceola michigan paul Roy moore Saul Lou
A.D.A. Now!

Throughline

1:02:43 hr | 11 months ago

A.D.A. Now!

"Before. We start the show. We want to give you a heads up that there are mentions of sexual assault and other heavy content in this episode. Was Nineteen fifty two and I was seven years old and I had been feeling a little bit. Warm? Feverish After noon, I remember sitting on the screened in porch in explaining to my family that I just wasn't feeling well. By the next morning by dad came in and said, why are you still in bed? It's past the time usually get up and I said I I don't think I can get out of bed. Within about twenty four hours I had been hospitalized and it was pretty clear that I had contracted the virus. I was born in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, five. I'm a twin and my mom was having my twin. She did not know she was having. She had my sister at home and. Kind of went about her business 'cause that's what did back in the day. And later on got sick and went back into Labor didn't know what was happening and so she got herself to the hospital in I was born weighing three pounds in almost died at birth. I spent the first few years of my life pretty much in and out of hospitals and clinics. I had surgery. Caesar's at started and when I was real little and going through a lot of hospital stays I would hear the doctors tell them my parents. Let me go. Let her go. You've got another child. When I was born, they gave me the expectancy of four to eight years to live. I was diagnosed with I feel genesis in Perfecta, which the person may know brittle bone disease. During that time, you know when a child is born with disabilities as always these predictions about their life span. So I that's basically what my grandmother's giving at that time. My grandmother raised me from birth she grew up in a rural file during the Great Depression. And so when I came along I could definitely see how that really influenced. Her and raise a me. She always tell me how children like me disabled folks. Didn't go to school particularly here in on small town. Carolina so I love that my life would be incredibly different if she hadn't raised me. Obviously, the polio epidemic of the nineteen fifties were Legion and families were always very worried that there would be some exposure for their kids in the summertime. I remember continuing to ask my family if I could go back to school and everybody was. Dodging the question is I remember because I think they didn't really know the answer would be. So you have to understand by eight seven, I was reading World Book Encyclopedia. I was reading health. The cyclopes. and. So I knew you know the word autism what it was I knew that it applied to me. I was like, yeah this is all me. If you looked up autism in the dictionary of Pitcher me by next suet. Help me to accept myself better. That I wasn't this. You know this weird old. There was a name. You know there was a main. Back then they did I've diagnosed black children particularly little black girls with autism and so I knew that that was one of the things that was going on with me but it wasn't diagnosed. There was a lot of just generic suspicion about somebody who had a disability. So he never really knew if you went to a restaurant whether the owner or the. Wait staff would even be willing to see you. So you know on more than one occasion I would go into a restaurant with a friend and would be told that they didn't serve people like me. I was told on a couple of occasions I would be upsetting to other patrons. People are very ignorant in how a few what is critical normal? What is quote? UNQUOTE RIGHTS? And not understanding the closest thing as mobile. You know disabled people have always been here. We are trailblazers and have always been in all right whether you recognize that a month. I'm run data. I'm at Louis and on this episode of through line from. NPR. The history of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Thirty years ago the Americans with disabilities act the A D. A. was signed into law. Simply put it prohibits discrimination based on disability. The ADA is considered the most important civil rights law since the landmark legislation of the nineteen sixties, the anniversary of the Ada comes right as our countries experiencing a new civil rights movement. With thousands of protesters pouring into the streets for weeks on end in the midst of a pandemic fighting for racial justice, fighting for economic justice and demanding new systems that reimagined what's possible for this country and its people. The Americans with Disabilities Act became law. Thanks to another political movement that four society to reckon with the question of who really belongs. In this episode, we're looking back at the history of how disability came to be seen as a civil rights issue, the movement behind that mission. And what the disability community is still fighting for today. Through an producer laying Kaplan Levinson tells this story. After the break. Hi My name's Carlos Ortiz I'm from Miami Florida and you're listening to line from NPR. Until recently Admin Hong says, he didn't speak out against racism because he was scared. Off. Listen now on the codes which podcast from NPR. Support, for NPR, comes from Newman's own foundation working to nourish the common good by donating all profits from Newman's own food products to charitable organizations that seek to make the world. A better place more information is available at Newman's own foundation dot org. Part, one hidden. For. Most of American history people with disabilities were supposed to be hidden. This is Joe Shapiro on the author of a book called no pity people with disabilities forging a new civil rights movement Joe's in investigative reporter at NPR who's been covering the Disability Movement for more than thirty years. Let's talk about what now we call the ugly laws. These laws that said that someone who's looks were deemed offensive they weren't even allowed out on the streets. So we're talking about people disabilities. In, the late nineteenth century, these are laws were enforced all across the country. Let's just read what was written into the Chicago City Code in eighteen, eighty, one, it lists the people were not allowed in public quote. Any person who's diseased maimed mutilated or in any way deformed so as to be an unsightly or disgusting object. People, like this are not allowed in public places or they can be fined. Discrimination against people with disabilities goes back long before the nineteenth century. The Bible itself depicts disability not as a natural cause but as a punishment for disobeying God, these messages spread through religious texts, cemented people with disabilities as outcasts of society, and they informed a deeply flawed ideology turned serious scientific study by the early nineteen hundreds. We've got the rise of EUGENICS, right? Darwin's published the origin of species. There's this belief that people with disabilities are a subclass of human beings, their danger because they threaten the human race. eugenics was a term coined by British scientists Francis Bolton. In the late eighteen hundreds, he advocated for improving the genetic quality of the human population by breeding quote desirable traits other sought to weed out the undesirable ones like criminal behavior, poverty and disability. So this is a racist belief and it's one that targets people with disabilities and justifies putting people in institutions. Institutionalization was fueled by these eugenic beliefs. It accelerated in the late nineteenth century as large facilities were built up in Europe and then America to provide care to people deemed unfit to live in the community. These proclaimed misfits were often forced into these institutions against their will as another way to systematically segregate them from society. and. Then there are sterilization laws. Another eugenic practice which was put to the test in the nineteen twenty seven Supreme Court case buck versus Bell. Carrie Buck was born in Virginia in nineteen o six to a poor single mother who was accused of feeble mindedness and prostitution and sent to an institution carry was put in foster care. When she was seventeen, she was allegedly raped her foster parents nephew and became pregnant after she gave birth her foster parents declared her mentally deficient and committed her to the same institution as her mother, the Virginia colony for epileptics and feeble minded. That same year Virginia adopted a statute authorizing the compulsory sterilization of any one. The state deemed genetically unfit. Carry was assigned to be the first person sterilized this law she challenged in the courts but in an eight to one decision, the Supreme Court upheld the law. Shortly after the trial Carrie Buck was sterilized against her will and Justice Olver Wendell homes in the site in the case infamously said three generations of imbeciles are enough. That was the prevailing idea prevent them cure them and when they exist hide them. After the. Buck. Versus Bell Ruling States. These therapies ation laws all around the country resulting in nearly seventy thousand four sterilizations that continued into the nineteen seventies. These laws ended up inspiring Nazi Germany's ethnic cleansing. It would be the Nazi eugenics ends up shocking the world, right the first people to die in the Holocaust they're disabled people in Germany. They were considered life unworthy of life was the German phrase they were the first die before six million Jews, and then after World War Two there's this worldwide revulsion at this as horrifying images of Nazi concentration camps, surfaced photos of life inside American institutions also started to emerge depicting eerily similar inhumane conditions. There were pictures of these horrible places were people were naked and lying in their own filth. American saw these they're shocked because echoed what they just seen from the death camps. So this is what starts a movement. Yes, the United States gone wild with peace the postwar ball world that everyone green devout is really here and the American people making up for lost time the play after the war America race to return to normal. But they couldn't ignore what wasn't the same their family members veterans who had returned home but my daddy rocks. Funny. My husband is blind. He can't walk I am selling. My boy modabber. Walk again. A lot of people came back from the war with very significant disabilities, amputations, spinal cord injuries. And so on. This is Mary Lou Breslin? I'm a senior analyst with Disability Route Education and Defense Fund and I live. In Berkeley California you met Mary Lou at the top of the episode. This is really the first period historically where people live in those levels of injuries. Assumptions are just gonNA live in hospitals till they die. And they fight this and they start saying, no, we WANNA live regular lives. So there's this sort of starting this human rights movement after World War Two they don't WanNa live in institutionalized places they don't want to be in that anymore. Policemen vide will comic and leave the hospital and take their places in the world which they fought. All they're asking is a chance to proven private. New. Whether or not they thought of themselves as Activists World War Two veterans were leading a sort of Proto, disability movement, and one of these veterans turned activists was a man named to geant. Philosophy of courses that you cannot protect people with disabilities, but rather equipped them to me all of the hazards and challenges of Life He. Very, radically thinking for his day just dreamt up the ways in which be possible for people to function on campus, a program or handicapped individuals but. I could not. Ever see a college education. Things like adding ramps to buildings, moving certain classes to the first floor retrofitting buses to accomodate wheelchair users ideas that were pretty much unheard of everywhere else eventually became a permanent program at U. OF I. Champaign Urbana. And this was in the late nineteen forties we'll are physically disabled students including nores confined to wheelchairs those with high level or neck level balances are pursuing fifty six curricula in ten colleges and divisions of the University of Illinois. They're doing just about anything any other to move duke. And by the time, I got there, which was you know fifteen years later this was the nineteen, sixty two. It had more from a program for veterans mostly men mostly men with spinal cord injury to a program to civilians modeled after this idea of you have to be able to sort of master your environment and you'd have to have the skills and psychological capacity and commitment to be able to do that. You had to meet the world as was the expectation was if you had to crawl up the stairs to get someplace, that's what you had to do. Because of this philosophy, the school scope of accommodations was limited looking back on it. We think of it as exclusionary many ways because if you had a disability that required by personal care assistance with dressing and bathing and so on. He would not be admitted if you had those needs but even that was very progressive for its day. So really looking at decades and decades ago was the mid twentieth century it was a different. A different time. So I was born and grew up in Louisville Kentucky. My family was basically middle to upper middle class. My Dad was a road contractor. Mary Lou was a Catholic schoolgirl, knee socks skirt the whole deal she caught polio one summer and ended up paralyzed in her arms and legs. As a result she started using a wheelchair after a stint in the hospital and then rehab she was ready to go back to school but there was a problem I was not able to get in any of those classroom buildings. They were solicited old campus with a lot of the old stone buildings, lots of stairs. So there really wasn't a practical way for me to be able to to return her parents were not satisfied with the options that left them. I could have gone to something called the school for crippled children, which would have been a segregated isolated. Setting or she could be home schooled, which in many ways was equally isolating but her parents that will done that for a while and found her a tutor by the time she was a teenager though Mary Lou was determined to go back to a real school with other teenagers. They identified a public school that was outside our area. The school only had one step up to get inside the building, not ideal but better than a whole flight of stairs plus the school agreed to accommodate her whether or not. They had actually thought that through. So I was enrolled I was dropped off on the first day of school and I looked at my class card and. Realize that I had classes on the second floor and the third floor, and then back again on the first floor and there was no elevator. So Mary Lou went up to her homeroom teacher and was like so how do you suppose I get around and he was a funneled about what to do and ought to get the principal and so the principal got this. Idea that the way we're to solve the problem was to carry me up and down the stairs every day he got together a bunch of football players and told them they were officially responsible forgetting Mary. Lou To class. They would meet me at my class and they would stack their books on my lap. So I'd be curing out over the giant stack of books. And each one would grab a quarter of the wheelchair and lifted up off the ground and run just as fast as they could up and down the stairs it never occurred to them to move the class from the third floor to the first floor rather than the carry me up and down the stairs every day but there was one place the football team couldn't take her the bathroom. So to plan for that, I am not drinking too much in the morning and just being careful with with my fluid intake meaning she didn't go at all later it occurred to me that it would have been pretty easy to have done a very simple modification which would have required just taking a door off a bathroom stall would have made it possible for me to use the bathroom. But just the fact that was there in all was session serve exceptional outlying situation that modifying the physical environment was not something anybody was thinking about. After High School Mary Lou went to the University of Illinois in Champaign Urbana she graduated with a degree in sociology and moved to Chicago Feeling Optimistic About finding a job but months went by with no luck. So in order to pay the bills, she settled on something, she never would have imagined herself doing selling light bulbs. It was one of these jobs that took advantage of people with disabilities to sell lightbulbs over the telephone. We would pitch the white ball by saying, I am handicapped worker I'm selling this lightbulb that's going to last a lifetime. I wasn't good at selling light bulbs. At, all she'd be qualified for a job, but she could next the building it was in, she'd try across the street and not be able to get onto the sidewalk because there was no curb cut should be out shopping or eating or doing anything in public and just like in high school not be able to go to the bathroom. It was just a difficult problem pretty much every day to try to figure out. HOW TO GET FROM A to B there were these endless physical barrier standing in her way. And then there were the social barriers, one of the most meaningful. For. Me was trying to go to a movie a midnight movie with a friend of mine. This is the middle of winter. It's freezing. It's cold. It's raining we're standing outside of theater. And we tickets, and then we start to go through the door and the. person who was in charge of the theater said Oh we can't let you in there's no place fruits set. So we're standing on the street rebuttal. I. Can't come in because I use a wheelchair, my friend who was with me that evening spur standing in the rain and freezing, and you know twelve o'clock at night and he said. You know that is a civil rights violation. I was. Struck you know just struck by that idea. Nobody had ever suggested to me that the fact that I couldn't go to movies or be seated in a restaurant or go to the bathroom or get into a place of business that could potentially work was an anything to do civil rights never occurred to me never was was new news and it was it was like a lightning bolt on I is talking about how? We were pulled a goal on other issues. been active in the civil rights movement in Anti Vietnam. War. Movement and yet it never in a million years occurred to me that I was being discriminated catch by not being able to be seated the theater I bought it was wrong. I thought they should let me in but I'd never occurred to me that it was a civil rights issue. When we come back, disability activists decide to adapt the system. Not Themselves. Hello, this is amber from frazee Minnesota and you're listening to through line from. NPR. How do you maintain a friendship in the middle of a pandemic including our last restaurant meal my last restaurant meal was with you, I, love that. I mean too. So an Friedman gave me some pointers they host the podcast called, call your girlfriend and they wrote a book all about friendship. Listen and subscribe now to it's been a minute from NPR. Support for this podcast and the following message come from K. Bucks bound in support of the David Gilkey Zaba ULITSA Tomato Memorial Fund established to strengthen NPR's commitment to training and protecting journalists in high risk environments. Per To. Access now. Ed Roberts was a California boy born and raised in San Mateo. When it came time for College Ed Dreamed of being part of the growing student activism seen at UC Berkeley. So he applied in nineteen sixty two and left out one thing that he was completely paralyzed from the neck down except for a few fingers and toes he sweeps an iron lung, this large tube that breeze forum, and then if he goes out, he needs a portable ventilator on his wheelchair Ed gets accepted to Berkeley. But when they find out about his disability, they revoke his admission the school said quote we've tried cripples before and it didn't work. But ed fought back in his own attempt to integrate the university system. Reluctantly they. Accepted Him. I was the only disabled student on the campus. There was very weird. Stared at all. Make clear that they didn't want me there. Suddenly other paraplegics and quadriplegics around California, hear about this experiment with this man Ed Roberts at Berkeley and they apply. And so a bunch of them end up. In this one place they call themselves. The ruling quads. We've been three or four years or about twelve of us. We really begin to feel. That we were fighting for our own independent. And there was a future without in the community. We had to really think through how to do it how we were how were we can make ourselves free They started a group on campus to support themselves, and then as they're graduating from college, they WanNa make out in the world. What did at the university. So all you'll finish PhD. Nursing but I said no, that's not what. We're here to change that whole idea. So Ed Roberts get some federal money and they start the first center for independent living the Center for independent living was founded in nineteen, seventy two they helped those Berkeley students. We've Berkeley, it helps figure out where to find a job, how finding accessible apartment out of a rap on an apartment or a house. It was disabled people solving problems for themselves and other disabled people. It started a movement, a movement that starting with Disabled World War Two veterans tended to focus more on physical disabilities than cognitive and intellectual. One's a trend that continued with the modern disability movement born on Berkeley's campus. California is the hotbed of disability civil. Rights Activism. There it spreads and it goes up to the. Mary Lou Breslin didn't know about Ed Roberts when she felt her own, the option was to enroll in the University of Illinois Program in Nineteen Sixty two the same year he got himself into Berkley but some time after that night at the movie theater that moment she realized she was being discriminated against she started rethinking the mindset you of I had tried to instill in her. It wasn't her problem that the movie theater wouldn't let her in it was the theaters problem and one for them to solve in the seed was definitely. Planted at that point, she started hearing about this movement forming out in California, and by the nineteen seventies she was living in Berkeley working at the Center for independent living I was very quickly caught up to what others had been working on in terms of advancing disability rights policy. By that point, the movement's biggest achievement was one little piece of Big Federal Law Section Five, Oh four of the nineteen seventy, three rehabilitation act. It was really one sentence that says you can't discriminate on the basis of disability if you get federal funding. It was modeled after title six of the Nineteen Sixty four civil rights act and has much the same language title six prohibited discrimination on the basis of race color or national origin in any federally funded program section five four did basically the exact same thing except swap race with disability this new civil rights statute of the nineteen seventy-three Rehab Act was a complete game changer because for the first time, it recognized that people with disabilities experienced discrimination, and for the first time the law itself focused on transforming. The environment, not the individual that shifted the burden from the person being responsible managing everything and dealing with social isolation and barriers to the responsibility being placed on society and community, and it was historic because for the first time with disabilities were considered a protected class. So section five of four is written into this larger act, which is great except nobody paid any attention to it. Nixon four nobody wanted to enact it. They thought it'd be too expensive. How are we going to do this and they did it When section five, Oh four past the Department of Health. Education and Welfare Hew was supposed to come up with regulations that laid out what antidiscrimination protections needed to be put into place things that cost businesses and employers money like building a ramp or hiring a sign language interpreter accommodations that would actually address the architectural and communication barriers people with disabilities feast but those regulations were never implemented reportedly was never implemented the act and now the new hew secretary, Joseph Califano says, he will sign it in May a handicapped want him to sign no. So. There were demonstrations around the country over a period of years and in nineteen seventy seven at the start of the Carter Administration. More than one hundred people with disabilities takeover, a federal building in. San Francisco and they stay there is the longest takeover of a federal building in American history if the I really militant thing that disabled people have ever done. And we feel like we're building a real social movement. And they put their lives on the line. These are people who. Needed attendance they. They left for their medications without their equipment, and because of that, there was national press and a focus on thrill. Really for the first time the issues they're tired they're grubby they're uncomfortable but their spirits are soaring. And one hundred and twenty-five disabled and handicapped are pledging. They'll continue the sit in through tomorrow night if I've longer. squeezes on. Hot Water has been turned off on the fourth floor where the occupation army of cripples is taken over. They stayed in that building for twenty six days. And they forced the Carter Administration to enforce the. A major civil rights while. THIRTY FIVE MILLION AMERICAN HANDICAPPED AMERICANS WANNA big victory today but hew secretary Joseph Califano sign the paper today the implementation of the law began. I think it was the most effective in acting as. Agent this is the beginning. It's a huge tremendous beginning. It's really a a a leap forward for us. After five four Mary Lou and others founded the Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund or Dread F A national law and Policy Center to protect federal laws like section five Oh four and advanced new ones. By the late eighties, there were set on the Americans with Disabilities Act. I'm over simplifying here but the ADA was like section five, zero, four on steroids. Well, it globally accepted and promoted the idea that it's illegal to discriminate based on disability five Oh four only offered protections to federally funded programs and activities. The protections would be sweeping and broaden that level of compliance. It applied this nondiscrimination mandate to employers with fifteen or more employees to public and private transportation to tell communications and to what we call public accommodations, restaurants, theaters, retail parks, all kinds of places you go to every single day. If signed, the ADA would prohibit discrimination on the basis of disability in all of those arenas and more whether they were federally funded or not. So for instance, whereas five Oh four couldn't have forced the movie theater that shut its doors on Mary Lou to figure out a way to accommodate her the ADA would. So what happened was I? Yes. I was assigned to cover a press conference I. Believe about the introduction of the Americans with disabilities, act, which I had never heard of. and. I went there and was listening to this piece of legislation being described as a new frontier in the area of civil rights and that just caught my attention right away. This is steve homes or reporter who covered the for the New York Times 'cause like many people. I really hadn't thought very much about people with disabilities attended to view them of objects of pity or sometimes even something or someone that you tend to avoid as opposed to a sense that these people had a right to be treated fairly. People just didn't I didn't think about him that way I must confess. But something changed when Steve started covering the issue, he realized civility was not only still largely ignored by people like him but stigmatized in society and it was like a vicious cycle avoiding the issue is exactly perpetuated the stigma. I remember specifically, there was a one activist. who had difficulty speaking and had difficulty with control of his facial muscles? And as a result, he would often basically drool all over himself. Right? It was not a pleasant sight. He. was I will confess sometimes difficult to look at. I realized after a while. This is exactly what this issue is about. People that forced you to look at them forced you and that's that's the whole point the issue forced you to see people as are. One of the reasons disability was so invisible was that the media barely covered it no, there was no disability beat that I knew of no, it's not even beat now in the health section there was often stories about disabilities, but it was usually looked at from a medical perspective as opposed to a rights perspective people with disabilities were saying we don't see our. Problems as problems of healthcare, it's not our disability. The issue is the issue civil rights, and once Joe and Steve started covering it that became abundantly clear. It's all reminded me of black people at lunch counters in in the south and the fifties and sixties or gay people at Stonewall at the moment you realize that people are really serious about demanding their right. I didn't have very many friends might twin sister who was and is non-disabled. And so things were. Pretty different. She was very outgoing and I was a bit shy because I learned to read really early books for my friends. This is Anita Cameron who you also met at the beginning of the episode. My name is Anita Cameron I am director of minority. For not dead yet. A national disability rights group opposed to doctor assisted suicide in euthanasia of. Needed did well in school and was on the path to her dream job I wanted to be a doctor was going to be neurologist. And you know all excited she got into med school with their for about. couple. Of Years and I started losing more eyesight and my epilepsy out of control and the university they just said okay. Sorry you know find another career path. This was one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, four those shortly before my twentieth. Perfect. There was no such thing as the Americans with disabilities act back via. So there was no support. I looked at that letter you know telling me to choose another career path. and. It was like, wow, that was punching in a good. I was depressed depressed I felt like a failure and I just. Wandered you know just hopped on the Greyhound with nothing but a couple of bucks in my pocket and clothes on my back and. Just, kind of wandered. Eventually Anita found her way back to her hometown Chicago and got involved in disability justice work. Specifically working with a group called adapt adapt Americans disabled for accessible public transit. I found out that adapt was organization that did civil disobedience nonviolence, civil disobedience, direct accent. We went around the country protesting Greyhound protesting the American Public Transit Association you know all of that Anita, jumped in and soon learned she had joined a group with quite the reputation we were considered radicals and militants. Okay as especially because we were all poor people, we all disabled people living you know on a fixed income, and so we were we were seen as a bunch of Ragtag. unwashed. Proletariat I mean look we were not considered respectable and that was the reason why a lot of you know the powers that be a what not would not meet with adapt some critics say it was more that adapt wouldn't meet with the powers that be regardless they weren't the ones negotiating the terms of the ADA groups like dread F- were the ones at the table. While they were meeting with the respectable people we adapt the. Radicals militants we were out there. You know keeping the pressure on you know kipp kept on blocking buses, shutting down buildings and and things of that nature won't Congress listened to testimonies and poured over new drafts of the bill adapt was getting impatient and in March of Nineteen Ninety we were allies the capitol crawl. There are hundreds of people still these out of their wheelchairs. And crawled up. The steps of the Capitol none of them could walk until they all just you know painstakingly one step at a time to. The second class citizenship you know that we held to just bring awareness. Not, just to the bill, but again for the ability to be seen. The ability to have people. Look at they have not turn away. Or not look at them in pity or not turn away in disgust. But just to view them as as full contributors to the society. I was one of the ones participated in that crawl up I went backwards carries someone's real chair and it was very hot and I got really exhausted and so the rest of the way up I literally crawled up Studi you know. You know but but bumping up the capitol stairs, it was amazing. We were crawling history we really were. were. Crawling in history. After the capitol crawl most politicians from both parties supported the bill. Still the odds walked pretty grim. The Washington was not very open to civil rights was, but another key supporter turned out of the and turn out to be President George H W Bush he had won election in nineteen, eighty eight. And he had been vice president on a Ronald Reagan compared to his predecessor. Bush had promised a kinder and gentler nation. The White House was split on the he had some advisers who were vehemently strongly opposed to the ADA and there are others who might. And the wants who liked it succeeded because they realized that George H W Bush can understand disability there was disability in his family. Look. Barbara Bush. Big Issue was illiteracy teaching people to read. Hi I'm Barbara Bush did you know illiteracy in this country could be eliminated by the year two thousand the case to get our young people reading now. Why the reason, we'll turn out one percents neal had dyslexia. And Barbara Bush spent a lot of time when he was in school helping them read. And she was told the Bush we're told all he'll never go to college did but they dealt with his learning disability George and Barbara Bush dealt with tragedy when a young daughter Robin died she was three she died of leukemia. So there was disability in that family, they understood him. This is what drove most of the as political allies, personal connections every family deals with disability. It doesn't matter if you're Republican or Democrat, and that's what helped push it over the finish line. So to I twenty, six, nineteen, ninety, George Bush signs the all this joyous bill signing I believe it was a really nice day out. There in this splendid scene of hope, spread across the South Lawn of the White House. I remember George Bush seated at a desk and signing and all these activists and senators surround the him and George Bush says I now lift my pen to sign this. Americans with disability, act and say, let the shameful walls of exclusion comes tumbling down finally come tumbling down God bless you all. Everybody knew this was this was been deal. This was a really big deal. I was elated. Wow this is a whole new era for people with disabilities I thought. that. Banks with just. Change. Life, after the ADA. When we come back? Hi. Damian called them Sydney Australia and you're listening to NPR through? Love the show this to. I, you have to come out. Thanks so much work. Fight. Support also comes from the Walton family. Foundation where opportunity takes root more information is available at Walton Family Foundation Dot Org. Part three, Eighty, eight generation. The memories that I have is definitely post eighty with going to school a year later episodes passage. Bass then my life. Yes I really don't know a were really. Without Ada. My name is Val Thompson I may social worker activism writer assaulted. It, Whisper Sarcoma. By listeners. The third person you met at the very beginning of the episode when I was born, they gave me the expectedly of four to eight years to live. Luckily for me, my mother. Is LPN is she noticed I wasn't. As active in utero in moving so they're really allow to start to suspect that. Something may be going on and. I was diagnosed with osteoporosis and perfecto via was born in nineteen eighty five with what's known as brittle bones disease. She remembers going to the doctor as a kid, a lot with surgeries of broken bone. So my childhood is kind of a mix of. Medical staff big with kind of normal thousand stuff. Because she started school soon after the Ada passed, she was one of the first to reap its benefits. So, I've always in K. through twelve had a at eight that helped me get to and from class and so on. So forth. When I got to middle school where we have kind of heavy books locker, I was given the ability to. Have a set of books at home and send books at schools are to Lome around in my backpack. So I just feel very fortunate that. Than my needs that I had students. was there from the beginning the moment that I started school. It was just something that I thought everybody had until I realized that wasn't the case. Our student in what we call mainstream classroom, which is protocol regular classes, and those may maybe a handful of us. That was amazed ring everybody else was under the no quit specification education classes. Is So ways created this? What we call it. Moody SUPPO CRIP dynamic. You're disabled student but you in Mayfield class that which your typical or able bodied classmates or at least perceived to be to. Classmates. A super CRIP is a common stereotype that paint someone some sort of heroic figure who overcomes their disability or defies the odds in some inspiring way. An. You are apparel in a way that students who are not in those classes. Or not. So. You know it just raises separation. Of Disabled Students. In the class there was even though we were all under the specification Umbro. By the HUROK that existed. Just really created that US versus them dynamic that should not have made this said. It was just very disturbing. They hear educators or teacher's aides say about. Another student in front of a student. The wondering why they're even bother to be the brought to school. Even as a kid, I knew how they were talking about students. were, not. I. Imagine that things that are said you know in the Teachers Lounge. While I listen was getting the resources she needed in school. The world outside was trying to catch up the ADA passed in nineteen ninety but there was a multi year window to implement accommodations, things like curb cuts and sidewalks, teachers, aides, Braille, sign edge. So cities, schools, business owners they had to figure out how to make all this happen and how to pay for it. All the ADA is basically. An unfunded mandate and it's those of us with disabilities who are the watchdogs. And You know, why should it be the those of us who are pressed have to beat a one to like continuously fight you know for you know rights and the make people do what the law says that they should have to do the ADA is one thing does one thing? In extremely important way, but it's a civil rights law it's not self executing. You have to go out there and make it happen. You have to file complaints and you know talk entities into complying and. Follow lawsuits you have to use it. You know it's a tool I think the thing that angers me so much as a price put on the freedom of people with disabilities or prices put on the rights of people with disabilities. Because of the way the law was written there was no ada police and no eighty bank account. This lack of enforcement end funding meant that the one big fight to pass the Ada then broke into a thousand tiny fights after it became law a lawsuit to get a ramp here a petition before the school board to get large print textbooks, they're all fights meant to make it possible for disabled people to live fully in society to be seen in the world. But the ADA didn't solve these problems overnight or even thirty years later. You can go into a doctor's office and still not have access to accessible examining tables, accessible scales, things of that nature. When I go to the merged with my wife. She's deaf. We still have to fight to get an interpreter Even. Though these fights continue the movement itself has evolved. Joe Shapiro says, so has the mindset. Before the day or people with disabilities were used to. Fighting for what they get Now, the generation, the people who grew up protected by the way they have much higher expectations. Of The promise of the. Expect. Full opportunities to everything in American Life Johnson access to transportation in public places to school. And the ADA has chipped away at the standing stigma changing the way people relate to their disabilities and themselves. So. Younger people are much more likely to say they have a disability and the claim disability as an important part of their identity and claim it with pride. younger people have a broader definition of disability rights. They've expanded it to include disability. Justice. That, when you talk about disability issues, you have to look at it through a lens of protecting racial minorities and and other marginalized people. Identity is something Barbosa thinks about all the time. She's now a social worker and runs a blog called ramp your voice where I could talk about disability from it is affecting only is from different angles that to me when you politics healthcare. Sexuality Sex Gender is case an entertainment act just talk about what I see in the world around. Might for me I. Never Gate this world as they black sabre one. You can not force me to just focus on my disability and Matt my blackness. Particularly, be a black woman from south is fresh where you can't do that. But she wasn't seeing that representation in the community. So she launched the Hashtag disability to white to shine a light on who gets seen. You know the ones that gets the most attention in overtime beauty sexuality is what civil women's stories and experiences that get same more. It went viral and when things go viral, there's praise and there's backlash whatever people upset. Now if the the first time in my lacked I was called the N. Word and called the N. Word on twitter for a bit one of ours. And it really showed me that hey, nerve be. The have. And being in a word for that long watch civil folk to. Don't want to recognize that they have white privilege can oppress people cover. Show beat that we are long overdue for for these type of conversations in the community. And I think particularly for activists imagination. Genetics and then no coming up behind me. Are they were out of really force in the community. The have honest conversations. You were you were four or five years old when the was passed and that was thirty years ago you know in thirty years what do you want that five year? Old Kids? Living with disabilities life to be like. I would like for the community look less white. Our light for the stories told to be less white. I would like, for Zabell, students save children special color to see themselves more in their schools in their communities on TV you know online. Though elsewhere, they don't have the hunger for that. So that the children of today. Don't have to go without. Those stories, those faces. That some are. This is one part of the struggle for visibility that the younger generation is fighting for today. Another is something that the disability community has been fighting for since the very beginning. Keeping people out of institutions. We're living with a legacy of institutionalization in the US. This is a legacy that has been perpetuated a selling sent by federal policy, which allows federal dollars to be used to institutionalize people, but not to allow them to be supported to live independently in the community on the ADA has intersected with this issue through the decision. Olmstead versus LC is the groundbreaking supreme, court case in which two women with intellectual disabilities and mental illness diagnoses challenged institutionalization. The court ruled that under certain criteria, people with disabilities need to be provided options that allow them to live in their communities rather than being institutionalized against their will. This was a big win. That decision has spurred a shift in. How much federal money goes to institutionalization versus community supports. Now more than fifty percent of federal money is now spent on community living opportunities rather than institutionalization but that's thirty years later and it still only fifty percent though so much further that we have to go. I mean, this is the age of Kobe and we're seeing this disposable or expendable. I keep thinking about what happened to Michael Hickson and Texas the disabled black man who was denied Kobe nineteen treatment. He called copen nineteen and a nursing home was sent to a hospital. The doctor decided that specifically because of his disability that he had no quality of life and so they refused to treat him for Kobe. Nineteen. They put them in hospice in. With. Hell. Food and liquids and. He died. So we still have a long way to go is society accepting us is people with disabilities. We talk about police brutality have of the folks murdered and brutalized by police are people with just. You know there are laws in place in whatnot but. I think our society has to catch up to make sure that we're part of this that we were not second class citizens that we're not disposable. People are the largest minority group in this country. And by you resisting, you're saying that you don't care about the participation of the largest group that has power that has buying power has Florida power. You know bad have all these things back. In. Shape society. We have. Such enormous exclusion still to deal with which is rooted very much in poverty and in. Racial injustice that the great message of the ADA. I think camouflaged and over shadowed by these remaining challenges. But, I do hope that the the media attention is not only on. The people who made it possible to have the ADA also? You know the real story is that we really have seen a transformation in society in a way that's ultra necessary in order for us to take the next steps. You know the really transformative aspect of the day I think is about. Making it possible for people to be out and about the world and have a right that they can assert in. Different situations and by doing that people are more likely to be feeling that they that they are part of their communities they belong and there likely to be perceived that way socially and to me, that's the most important message of the thirtieth is to celebrate the extraordinary things it's done. And how it's made a difference in so many people's lives. Ole Overall. It was a life changer. I mean, I'm talking to John Disabled. People. Who never knew a world before the ADA? Never, knew a world. If the AGA had been around back, then I would probably be a doctor. But you know it was a blessing in disguise because I got to do I think so much more with my life. You know doctor might see you know over a career a few hundred maybe even a few thousand patients. By the work that I've done, I got to help millions upon millions of Americans. That's it. For this week's show. I'm Rhonda Nevada. I'm routine Louis and you've been listening to through line from NPR. This episode was produced by me and me and Jamie York Lawrence Will Lane Kaplan. Levinson Shouli, came he. Meat's Kennedy's Natalie Barton. Fact checking for this episode was done by Kevin. Vocal. Give. Special. Thanks to Sarah Lewd Herman our editorial advisor on today's episode. Also thanks to Alex Wong Pat Right Arlene. Meyerson. Hye feldblum Maryland Golden lex freedom and Heather Watkins for their health shaping today's show. Thanks also to the disability rights education and defense. Fund and to the adapt museum for some of the footage you heard and finally thank you to Camille, Smiley and on your grunted. Music was composed by Ramtane. and his band drop electric, which includes feed larvae show Fujiuwara Anya Meson. If you have an idea or like something you heard on his show, please drop us a line at through line at MPR dot org are hit us up on twitter at through line and. Thanks for listening. into.

ADA Mary Lou NPR Berkeley California United States Ed Roberts Joe Shapiro Disability Route Education and University of Illinois Disability Rights Education an Mary Lou Breslin football twitter polio Louis Chicago
As It Happened Episode 2: Eureka Moments

As It Happens from CBC Radio

28:39 min | 1 year ago

As It Happened Episode 2: Eureka Moments

"I told the court. To. Use One small man. Giant wheel. Do wish say official that I'm wrong person right now. Uncover season seven. Dead Wrong. Killed Pimple it. Might be not. Available on CBC listen and wherever. You get your podcasts. He smashed pretty much. Every billboard and streaming record that matters is already been streamed more than a billion times. People still to this day point to this is the moment everything changed, but whether you agree with those claims are not. This podcast isn't really about him either. You're not an astute businessman, or you're inherently racist. When it to black music in this country, this is not a drake podcast available now on CBC. Listen or wherever you get your podcast. This is a CBC. PODCAST. Hello, I'm Chris Hayden. All summer were bringing you some of the very best from the as it happens archives, this is as it happened, the archive edition. Tonight's theme Eureka moments put on your creative thinking caps. We've got stories of inspiration and innovation from every corner of the as it happens archives. Call and response. A young boy shares his appreciation for an era with a resounding. Wow, at the end of a performance, his grandmother says his moment of wonder resonates far beyond the walls of the concert hall I think that he picks up on the emotional tone of the music. You know the whole week has been. A roller coaster ride plans laid bare. A Canadian entrepreneur explains how developed a better relaxation video by filming people swimming naked in something he calls the human aquarium. But what are these late night conversations at three in the morning? Saying it's a brilliant idea does make your television turn into something else but it. Wouldn't. It be nice if people were naked and out of the box thinking postal workers are in for a surprise. After New York, man turns his mailbox into a Tuba so to hear for ourselves. We get the Horn on the horn. Will. Cocoa. As it happened. The archive edition radio the males it in, but delivers sound ideas. It only seems right to start tonight's show with as it happens on origin story, the show premiered on CBC radio in Nineteen Sixty Eight. Here's how it sounded when co hosts Phillip Forsyth and Harry Brown, I took to the air broadcasting live across Canada in each time zone. Going to roller coaster across the country to do about different stories and ideas, and we hope to be hearing back from you listeners with some of your own ideas and views and the show. And we'll be roller coaster as the phrase which our producer has coins for this occasion and the others which we hope will follow it. But the end is five hours away. Let's right so stay with us as it happens. A lot has changed since our first broadcast. Alas, you may have noticed. We stopped playing that doctor who esque soundtrack throughout the program, but it's hard as it happens, still works on the original premise. Other shows rely on a call in format, but what if we call out? That simple but revolutionary idea of calling news makers, movers and shakers across the globe provided the spark. That has kept this radio show glow for fifty two years, and it was all set in motion by clearing the first executive producer of as it happens in nineteen eighty eight host Michael. enright spoke with Valk leery about the idea. Sixty eight of course was a hell of a time for this kind of radio. You had world going through some kind of convulsion. was as it happens, became a part of that you. You covered day very much part of the time part of the. McLuhan era. Such as it was, I saw it as a need to. Escape from the tape recorder. And use radios facility to get to the event before anybody else. So it was the phone really the got you. That was a means I decided. Arriving go that the phone was used so frequently so freely here. That Em. And people were less intimidated by token into the telephone, and they were in Tokyo into a microphone, and if you're cutting covering current events, there was too long a delay in sending somebody owed with. Portable tape recorder coming back editing and all, and what was the reaction of the audience? Very good it am. I think in the first three months. The time slot increased its. Audience by about seventy percent. In three months here, seventy percent, yeah. Were there any elements in the audience? WHO said wait a minute? This isn't a CBC. We want the old seat. Sure sure. How did you deal with that? Well, I didn't deal with. AM I. Why would I that part of the audience and decrease in daily and the graveyard? Demographics care that yes. Thank you bill, thank you for the program. From one thousand, nine, hundred, Eighty, eight, that was Michael, speaking with Val, clearing the creator and first executive producer of as it happens. Before we go any further. Some of these archival clips needs a little TLC to make sure you're getting the highest fidelity possible. I'm going to pause here to clean them up and clean. My ears in for that I'll need the trusted as it happens ear mirror. As you may recall inventor Justin, let low, told host Mary Lou Finlay about his handy ear gadget back in two thousand and two. Here's co-host Barbara Budd with the setup, well larger small scientific discoveries usually start with someone just simply wondering why why? Why can't I peer into my own curricular orifice? That's just what Justin. Let low asked himself just before he came up. With the ear, Mirror. MR, ludlow. I can't believe no one has done this before. It seems like such a good idea. What made you decide you had to do it? Well. I figured. Everybody has two years and I've always wanted to look in my ear. 'cause you know every once in a while you got a piece of earwax in there, and it's kind of like somebody with a burger hanging out. There knows kind of. Embarrassment problem so could be yes with designed to prevent earwax embarrassment. Every time. I'm watching TV I'm watching a pro basketball game or a football game or baseball game. And they'll zoom in on a coach or player, and they got a big old piece of Iraq hanging out there Oh. Oh, dear, dear like I say. It's kind of like a burger hanging out, you know. Yeah, so, what is it? What does it look like? A double mirror he got one inch mirror on both sides about six inches long, and it's Got Spoiled at the both ends so you all she do just? Look in one in with your eyes and the other part sitting there on the outer part of your ear and you can see. The outer part of your ear in the inner part of your your canal. The way you check the back of your head with two mirrors when you're looking at your hair, yeah! Is this your first invention? Well listen good luck to you or appreciate your phone. Call Okay bye-bye boy! From two thousand and two, that was Mary Lou speaking with Justin. Let low the inventor of the year mirror. Listening to as it happened the archive addition tonight's team. You Greek a moment. Ancient Greek the word Eureka loosely translates to. I've found it. The story goes that archimedes proclaimed Eureka after he stepped into his bath and realized the volume of water he displaced was equal to the volume of the body part he submerged. Presumably his leg Ronan Matton was not in a bathtub. When he had his moment, the nine year old was with his grandfather at the Boston Symphony Hall listening to Mozart the Orchestra finished and the Eureka moment or in Romans case the wow moment hit. Here's what it sounded like. That recording delighted people from twenty, nine thousand nine. Here's Carol speaking with Ronin Grandmother. Clare Matin about her grandsons. Awe Inspiring, awe clear, you know people are the play seven going crazy about that captivating. Wow, what was your reaction when you first heard the recording? Just sent a chill down my spine. It was Kinda funny. Because the day of the concert Stephen came home, and he told the story about how Ronin gave out this big. Wow, in the middle of all the silence and. It was just a funny story was another Ronin story he's he's quite a guy, but when I heard the recording Oh, my. Stephen is is your husband. He's GRANDPA and grandma was taking Ronin. To Boston Symphony Hall. D Hair that concert just take us back to Sunday and was wrong in pretty excited about going to the concert. Oh yes, ruling was very excited. He loves music. And Steven especially. Makes it a point to take him? To anything that's musical, so he was very excited. He had gone to a concert in Boston a few weeks before, and that was all he talked about so in my husband told him. That he was going to a concert on Sunday, he's. Concert. He wanted to go and he knows the way to Boston. He said yes. Ninety five to forty six and we go to Boston. And so this is this is like eighteen twelve overture or something. It's not something a lot of bangs and bells, whistles and stuff. What do you think about it? That touched him so much well. I think that he picks up on the emotional tone of the music you know and he gets into it. He's involved when he's listening to music at home. He's dancing around and pretending conduct. It it just moves him. It gets to him more than lot of other things that we do with him to try to bring him out. To bring him out, what are you? What are you referring to well? He's on the autism spectrum peace mostly nonverbal so for him to emotionally express his feelings with the word. Was! Amazing? It's all the more touching wonderful about this story that that's the case he so, how often does he expressed himself in this way? We've maybe heard at four or five times. Wow! That's exactly. And it's such a clear recording. Isn't it just dead silence at the convention unwritten rule when you go to hear a symphony orchestra that you stop in classical. Say nothing at all until you give it this moment of silence, and then there's the flaws, but just to fill that moment list. Everybody else obviously was thinking was so extraordinarily wasn't. Yup and again at the time as it was happening my husband. Wishes, immediate reaction was no know they're gonNA kick us out but then right away. Everyone started laughing and applauding and. Steven realized that it was well accepted, and he relaxed. How did you come to learn that? The Orchestra was actually looking for him. My sister saw an article. In one of the local newspaper she lives in Massachusetts. and. She called me right away because I had told you the story and she said that's gotta be Ronan. And she sent me the link to the article with the little sound clip in. Yeah, I'd recognize his voice anywhere. They him and then There was an email address for David snead. Who is the CEO I guess? And I sent him. An email told him it was my grandson. And he got right back to me. He called me. He said that it was just the most wonderful thing that's happened to him. In the forty years that he's been with H. and H. Society. Is that was emotional? You know the the whole week has been. A roller coaster ride. From Twenty nineteen. That was Carol speaking with Clare Madden about her grandson Ronin and his moment of wonder heard around the world. As ronin found out, inspiration can strike at any moment especially when it comes through music and for Trinidadian musician, Ellie, Monette, that moment struck when he struck a fifty five gallon oil barrel Mr Min- is credited with making the first steel Pan Drum, which is why he's known as the Stratovarius of steel host Mary. Lou Finlay spoke with Elliott in nineteen ninety eight. Mr Monette, tell us about that I steel drum that you made back in Trinidad. When was that Nineteen forty-six about? I. Didn't forty six. It was because I get keeping me from. Being on some more cat and garbage cans nudity time nine, forty, one, forty, five up forty five, I didn't number more. Than I just came to my mind. I can probably get more noise if I use it at I stream. And A. Boys new around the island. Time couldn't believe that I really wanted to do that. Because Fed, it couldn't be done. But I endeavored to it because. I do know how imaginative mind as a young man I decided bound from. Of course there's story before this you know, but I would not go to of that much time, but fifty five. Came in. Either down to about four and a half inches stephen. I caught fourteen notes alternate. I really didn't know chromatic time because I was not a musician I was. Just. GonNa say. How did you know what you were doing or just pure luck? I just felt like that at at it in okay. Does this key in you kept beating these little bumps out until you got the next note in the scale I just did it somebody and determine Mitzi. You know roughly equal from the kind of Capri later skiers and did A. Little tease on it like maybe. A Little Pot of Ave, maria and things like that. twinkle little star. Data so? Did you like the sound the time it was great because it was much better than what we had before what we had before more than anything else off, but just created to an pitches, it wasn't precise, but it was still not pitches I was observable. As, a musical instrument to some extent, you know, everyone then started looking around the islands to find drums that it can build a big one, but the drums not very early available yet more or less Stephen wherever you can find almost to station because we just couldn't get them to buy. So it. It didn't come very quickly after I did my own. It took a couple of years before the other guy fell in line where you heating the drums at this stage you learn about firing them to make them easier to tune. Before. We back in nine, hundred, forty, four, forty, five, billion with a smaller drums. I was We didn't really know what fiber due to drum I just guess trial and error we. We got a drum a TA. You know what I what that goes on. The. Highway to court ta I had some of that instead of one of the drums and I couldn't get it already. Kind of chemical and I couldn't get. You wanted to melt it out bonus out. On after booting out, defy from of course it. Talk Him Out. And then when I started banging on the top I realized right or read it, it was a different view. Different Song is sung, hotter brighter and I said wait a minute I can I should on. See if it works wait. He probably never imagined that day. When you were just looking for a bigger thing, bigger drum that it would be so popular. I never really thought that it will get woolite as soon as it did. Relatively to the are the instrument of the Wars Piano Violin and it and to five hundred years to develop. You understand I. You started the whole movement though. As the follow is is a heck of a movement here on across the country on the war in general about his movement and I have to say that I. Don't get myself a lot of credit for anything I. Did I do I? Hope to do better next time, but but I have it up an instrument which would. Enjoys today from nine hundred, Ninety eight. That was Mary Lou, speaking with musician and steel pan. Drum. Inventor. Elliott. You're listening to happen to the archive edition. Tonight's theme you Rica Moments. Sometimes it's hard to clear your head. And Channel Your inner inventor, which is why Chris Leeson's invention could be particularly useful for other inventors in Nineteen ninety-five host Michael Enright spoke with Mr Leeson about a new relaxation video. He created called the. Aquarium. Is the leasing. If I put a tape of the human aquarium on my VCR right now tonight, what what would I see on the TV? Well, first thing you'd probably see is An underwater stuff lost city of Atlantis Let's see Greek columns and statues, rocks, bus, plant, and inbetween, and all around that you would be seeing the human aquarium people Basically people start making swimming around if they lived there I see no. The idea of it is to. Relaxes you does it well. I think that's probably one of the one of the things that. People, most people have seen it do it's gotta sort of US slower soundtrack to hold these sort of a new age soundtrack might best describe it, as but generally sort of a relaxation tape well has been shown that people staring at fish in an aquarium for example tend to relax a bit, and precisely where the idea from Oh tell me about that then well, there's a gimmick video out in London, which basically turns your television into an aquarium just with some goldfish swimming around now with my collaborator. One night, he'd received one. The late night conversations at three in the morning. Saying brilliant ideals make your television turn into something else but it wouldn't be a lot nicer if people were naked. Naked People. Rather than fish. Could fish exactly yeah, exactly! So, what did you do? How did you audition the swimmers where they did you choose them for their? Backstroke capabilities, or or the way they they looked interesting, enough both Of course we wanted to have a very nice looking people in there But at the same time, they really had to know how to swim. especially be underwater for long periods of time. and generally those people are fit anyways so. I think people were sort of a bit wary at first, but they saw that we were probably Rather than anything sinister trying to pull something over them. We were probably just a bit crazy and They responded. Very quickly to the attitude and to us, and everybody was fine. There were lovely people we should make clear I think to. Parents, who might be worried listening to our conversation that they they in fact swim? In the aquarium, doing anything else now, just swimming I think I think there's a a rating and most places in Canada fourteen, plus so it's all very innocent and I've yet. I've yet to have a Someone, take any offense to it anywhere, and there's no suggestion of any of what one might call synchronized swimming or You take my point. Synchronized there's none none of that going on. From nineteen ninety-five, Michael's speaking with Chris Leeson about his invention. Now that we've dipped into the human aquarium, we hope you're relaxed, refreshed and ready for your next story, and hopefully you've finished your dinner. In Two Thousand Eighteen Carol spoke with a post doctoral student about wombat poop, more precisely, the mysterious shape of the poop. I think I'll just let former CO host Jeff. Douglas Take it from here I have something weird to share with you. It's about wombat. Their pope. It. It's cube shaped. I know it blew my mind a bit and it raised questions that I can't answer. But I can't stop asking. Now scientists have known this about walnuts for a very long time, and they have had similar questions, but know how idea how wombats accomplish this. Seemingly impossible feat. You know what I'm about to say though until now. Patricia Yang is a post doctoral student in mechanical engineering Georgia. Tech and she has done a study to try to solve this mystery with Ms Yang in Atlanta Georgia. Just maybe you can start by describing what wombat Pu looks like. It is a Q. With wrong corners. Why? Why would what would be the biological purpose of having pooing cubes? So wombats. They pretty much communicate the smell of poop. So. They have to make the smell fix at a location, so the shape of the species a cubicle shame prevent the smell rolling away. So. If it was sausage shaped or around, it might disperse yes. What made you want to find out about one bat pu I study feces for two or three years and I know most of the category. wombats really really unique. You has Shinchosha I have never heard of and to be honest and array of getting I was fake. That the wombat blue is because it was cubed. Yeah I. Don't think there's something cubicle in biology. You said you've studied feces two years. Yes, so my study is on urination, and they just shouldn't and defecation in general, and I published a paper all year. They should have the most. Your name and I published another paper on. How animal differ tastes, cylinder go poops. It was two thousand. Seventeen or sixteen on the Journal and soft matter. What soft Masher! Yeah, the title is I. Mix of defecation. But the journalists called soft matter Oh, yeah! He's actually feary article for. That's a serious journal for people studying. Catch up or Plato. I think that's why the editor feel like. We are very good fit of the Journal. Okay speaking of fit. How did you find out that they're Pooh comes out and keeps like what did. How did you find out about how a do that? The first thing I noticed that they're really chunks at the end of the intestines, like maybe the last one half meter south. THEM HAVE SHEPHERD corner others so I let her mentor. How sharply are bite size of the corner? And then only at your very final fifty centimeters the last eight percent intestine, they are all consistent shape with sharp corners. Sounds really painful. For. For me. I'm thinking of the wombat and. How many of these little poos is the wombat? Squeeze out and of course of? Course they can do eighty two hundred. And, so we presume that it's not I mean if they have options. They're not exercising then. This is a reason for doing it and they're okay with it. Your. Story. No I won't worry. What do you think is the the value of your finding? What do you think that tells you? I think special is how wombat really manufactured this chiefs for human. It's a very difficult we don't have. Food. And we? We want something cubicle like like ice cave. or any life square size phone chargers. We voted or we. We've cut it to. One, but won't. That seems has a third way to do it, so would I don't. I measure how stretchy they are. They have periodic stiffness like soft of stuff among the conference, and then this method to inspire us about what easier way or a cheaper way and portable way to cubicles. The practical application to this idea of stiff, soft, soft Oh, yeah. We are learning from Walnut. From twenty eighteen, that was Carol speaking with Post. Doctoral Student Patricia Yang about wombat poop. So you, Rica moments come in all shapes and sizes, and sometimes as in Ms. Yang's case inspiration comes when you ask why, but sometimes it comes when you ask. Why not which I'm assuming is how Fred Morgan got the idea to turn his mailbox into a Tuba. Tonight we'll leave you with the sweet sounds of Mr Morgan's Tuba. Mailbox just as it serenaded. Hosts Allen Maitland and Barbara from back in Nineteen, seventy five. Perfect! For. I. Also. Bro Fool. Mr Morgan. Whole! How do you get it to stop Fred only. Fred, that's lovely. Yet. Quite. And that brings us to the end of this episode of as it happened the archive addition, the show was produced by John, McGill and technician Reynold gonzalves with help from me, Robyn, smyth and Keith Hart in Radio Archives. You can find links to this show, and all the other episodes of as it happened on our website. CBC DOT CA slash eight I h. join us for another archive addition one week from now right after as it happens, I'm Chris how. Good night. For more CBC podcasts go. To CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

CBC Carol Stephen Fred Morgan Patricia Yang Michael Enright Justin Mary Lou Mary Lou Finlay Boston Ronin Chris Leeson Boston Symphony Hall Steven executive producer Barbara Budd Ronin Canada CBC Elliott
Prayers That Get Answered  Part 2

Joyce Meyer Radio Podcast

14:30 min | 3 weeks ago

Prayers That Get Answered Part 2

"Welcome to enjoying everyday life with new york times bestselling author joyce meyer on today's program. Joyce will be teaching from her series. Prayers that get answered. Do you ever feel that. Your prayers are not being answered. It can be discouraging. If you're going to god for some specific request or you're looking for his direction and yet it feels like those prayers aren't quite hitting the mark no matter the frustration. Don't let thoughts and feelings control your prayer life. Believe and know that god hears all your prayers and he is working on your behalf be encouraged. Today's and let it helps strengthen you in your pursuit of deepening your relationship with god. Now here's joyce with today's teaching prayers that get answered many many ago when i began to give me revelation james four one and two. I can tell you. My life was full of strife feuds fights and quarrels now. that's not the case now. But when i saw that what leads to strive discord. And feuds and how do quarrels and conflicts and fights originate among you. It had my interest. How many of you need a lot more peace in your life than what you experience have way too. Many fights way too many quarrels and so much strife where you work and even strife in the church and strife in the home. Strife is bickering. Arguing hated this agreement. But it's also an angry under. And i hate that part worse than anything like that angry under current that can even be in the church among the people in the choir come on. Well i think i should be the worship leader. I can sing better. She can't even sing her way out of a paper sack. And i've got a great voice so he says what's the cause of all this stuff. God's called us to pace she said my peace. I leave with you where she was a piece. He said do not arise from your sensual desires. So that's flesh carnal desires. It's let's make it plain. It's stuff that we want. It's a position it's a promotion. It's finance it's warning what somebody else has. Just hang on. It ain't time for that yet. Verse two james four to case you didn't hear him. He's wanting me to do the robot i said not yet. I am sorry it does not fit into the message today. I'm doing half of this message this morning. The other half in the morning. If you wanna see the robot you will have to come back in the morning. So it's worth it to you to change your plans and come over here just to see the i'll do it. Watch you are jealous and you covet. What other people have and your desires go unfulfilled. So he's saying you don't get what you want you're not gonna get it that way so you become a murderer because to hate us to murder as far as your hearts are concerned now. Let's talk about the gray area here from it. So i don't hate anybody but do you love 'em well no. I wouldn't exactly say that. But i don't really hate them but i don't see any other options in the bible. It's like you burn within vienna. Anger you're not able to get the gratification that contaminating the happiness that you see so before we read answer just look. He's saying look what causes all this upset in people's lives why can't people settled down and be content and be happy. It's because of all the stuff you want that you don't have i mean if you're unhappy today. Isn't it about something you want that you don't have to for you. We can go slow. How many years was i unhappy. Because my ministry wasn't bigger than what it was lots of years. You know what we're on a journey and life is not all just about the destination it's more about the journey than anything else and you need to learn to enjoy the journey and that means a while. I'm headed to what i think i want. God may actually do so much in my life. That i'll realize at the time i get there. That's not even what i want. Some of you sweet beautiful single ladies. You just got yourself convinced you just cannot be happy if you're not married and so many people have been married thirty years. You're convinced you can not be happy if you have to stay married. Let me enlighten you single people. You did not have to get anybody's permission to come here this morning and not only that you got up and you put on whatever you wanted to wear now. That did happen to me today. I had a new outfit and it was a little different for me. But i really liked it and when i bought it you should have seen the ladies and the shop. That sold it to me. Not normally you could say whether just salesperson but this lady that sells in my closes my friend and she said oh joys that just look so good and you and my daughter was there and she said oh that just looks so good you mom you gotta get you gotta you gotta get you gotta wear that a meeting so i put it on this morning and i went to dave and i said so what do you think in who said i don't like it now. I mean he wasn't even nice about it. He just like what i don't like it. And then he said. I really don't like it. He said you look like belong on the docks wikileaks dockworker. Going down the docks to work. And i'm like dave well. My other friend was there my assistant and she's a little nicer. She said well she said it. Just doesn't show off your little figure. I saw at least take a lesson from her. If you're gonna tell me you don't like him so actually. I have to carry extra clothes on the road just in case. You don't like some of them now honey. I want to tell you that. From where i was to where i am took a lot of us because forty years ago. I would've conquer if you like it or not. I took a lot of prayer. I man so. If you're single you could be happy being single. If you thought about the advantages. Now i want to be married. I love being married. But i'm just saying that no matter what we have unless we learned to be content. With god's giving us at the time. I said unless we learned to be content with what god's giving us at the time i love what the apostle paul said he said. I've learned how to be content and the amplified bibles satisfied to the point where i'm not disturbed no matter what state i'm in now. He did say satisfied to the point. Where i never want to see change so you can want to see change. You want things to be different in your life. You can want to get married but you don't have to be unhappy every day until you are man. I got ten reasons here. I'm not making much progress at first one took me thirty minutes. You have not because you asked not. That's the answer to the whole mess. Why are so much dr and quarreling and bickering arguments. All the stuff you want. You don't get it. You say somebody that's got it. You get jealous and envious. You still don't end up with what you want. What's the problem. You have not because you asked not. I don't know about you. But when i read that many years ago i'll tell you what i was into. So many works of the flesh in what works with the fleischer. It's us trying to do. What only god can do. Can i tell you if you're trying to change the person you're married to it ain't gonna work won't work. You could humbly go to god stressing humbly. You could humbly go to gaza. And i got. I know i've got a lot of my own problems. And if i'm seeing this wrong then just ignore me but i'm asking you to change. Our henry are herbert are charlie. Or you're a guy here today. Mary lou mary jane janet whatever this is for all of us we try to change our kids and if you have four four of them are totally different. We want them to be like us. And we don't even like who we are yet. Why wouldn't that be a nightmare. If everybody in the whole house was like you just about killed myself in works for the flesh and what i saw that scripture. Oh the joy of god hit my soul. You have not because you asked right now. There's a little bit of fear in that because then there's this thought well what if i want it gone. Don't be to have it. What if it doesn't want me to ever. Maybe i better keep trying to get it myself. In case he won't do you know we'll pry but we always wanna backup plan. Don't we just in case. God doesn't come through. We got kind of a backup plan. A plan b. Oh you can never enjoy your life and you get out of work. Still flush learn that you have not because you ask them out and don't be afraid to ask god he loves you. He wants to help you. Little kids ask for a lot of things that aren't good farming the parent just doesn't give it to them. If god doesn't give you something you want out of love he's not holding out on you. He just knows something that you don't know yet. Come on now. Come on lord. I'll tell you what. I wanna married that name. Maybe not so much. Maybe if he's already married four times you'd better kind of consider that he was the only same thing. All the relationships god is able occasions. Three twenty says god is able to do exceedingly abundantly above and beyond all that we could ever dare to hope. Ask our thing. According to his power that works in. Jesus said ask you know. Sometimes if i need my life for my faith in per bolstered i know where most of the scriptures are that say ask and i will get them out and just read them and i've got them all this morning but i don't have time to put all these up but the word ask means to request to call desire and i love this part to make a demand on what's already yours. God's already provided everything that we need. When i go to the bank and it's my money in the bank. I ask politely. But i'm really just making a demand on what's already mind but you have not because you ask not. We can't assume. And presume. With god. I get his help when a humble myself and ask for his help. I can't just assume if god wants to help me. He'll help me the humble. Get the help. I ask god to help me. God help me. And i don't know about you but i need a lot of help. Get through one day data. Help me get out of this bed and have a good attitude. All dave thought he was smart this morning but he puts up on the wheel and he's got one coming back. I get up in the mornings. And i'm like pretty some go over to the little kitchen at the hotel here and i'm making my coffee and dave comes around the corner and i didn't hear me goes boot scared me half out of my wits. So how many do you think that he deserves. Thanks for listening. Learn to develop powerful prayer life when you order. Today's offer prayed. Power prayers package which includes a two cd series and the power of simple prayer hardcover book. This package is available now for a donation of twenty five dollars or more in us fund. And we do accept all major credit cards. You can order. Today's offer from our website at joyce. Meyer dot org or you can call toll free one eight hundred seven eight nine zero zero eight nine again. The number is one eight hundred seven eight nine zero zero eight nine. Be a part of changing one precious life. You can help rescue. The woman forced into human trafficking the older now who so desperately needs medical attention the little boy who would otherwise go hungry or simply. Give a gift to be used where the need is greatest. You choose the outreach that you'd like to support help us continue to share the love of christ and his message of hope. Contact us right now. Visit joyce meyer dot org. Thanks again for listening to enjoying everyday life our mission here at joyce meyer ministries is simple sharing christ and loving people. Remember together. We can do more.

joyce meyer james dave joyce Joyce new york times Mary lou mary jane janet vienna herbert gaza paul charlie henry Jesus Meyer
Missappearing

Threedom

1:05:40 hr | 1 year ago

Missappearing

"Create your own one of a kind engagement ring with brilliant Earth where exclusive unique designs are brought to life by master jewellers with their virtual triumph feature. You can easily find the perfect style. It's right for you order today for delivery by Christmas and receive a surprise gift with purchase of engagement rain to see terms for this special offer into shop all brilliant earth selections. He's got a brilliant earth dot com slash three them. Hi everyone it's Scott and obviously because you're listening to this You know that we are releasing season two of them weekly for free. But if you don't want to wait if you just want to get your been John. Allah the premium binge itself Net flicks. Well there's one way you can listen to all of the season two episodes right now including the one you're listening to currently currently all you gotta do is go to stitcher premium dot com and sign up with the Promo code three DM. That's the ferry show. You're listening to you'll get a free month of premium which is more than enough time to binge all of season two and he can cancel. Listen if you want to say and you'll be able to listen without -at's you'll be supporting our show. So what are you doing you and if you're not doing this if you don't WanNa wait for the weekly release of season to go to stitcher premium dot com use the Promo code three them for a free month of premium listening. And there's one more word left on this copy of that is thanks. WHOA WHOA WHOA? WHOA hold on a second? Oh is that right field That turnout turnouts Arthur Morgan. Of course Arthur legendary. I was like the WHO of course of course Titian. I'm not aware hours. He was you know now. You know almost every politics but I try try to say. Do you have a thing where you tell your fans try to stump me with the politics and what I say. Did you stop wfnc to punch you in the stomach stars. That exactly style who Houdini Third Baseman Dean. Who who teeny thing a really small shirt? It's a graduating Houdini. Who Cheney's IT disappears into my stomach is? It's it's a missile Perry. Hi everyone welcome back too much today. We're here we're back. It's three to introduce each other. I'm Lauren he's just he's Lauren. You guys do. This is Laura. This is fine okay. Well she's Lauren. Paul Paul Paul Paul Paul. I'm prepared a very specific way. I had no idea that your name was Paul. People mispronounce it all the time. Paul applaud your swallow. I'm Scott Hi. Everyone that Scott Welcome back welcome back to three of them. We're here is good to be back guys is GW GDP be sure she sees you have the most giant water thing. Being with the with the biggest thing I suck water out by gaping wound This is beautiful water bottle and actually the other day coming. I had a different with a straw and we were talking about. How Explains Matt Walsh Dot? The strong was great because if I try to drink in bed with this one it spills Dell's all over me and because it's it's the whitest mouth mouth yeah of any reception so you like to fuck this I do I do for you like to fuck. This is a great water bottle. It's called a hydro flask. Keeps IT Super Bowl okay. So it's great because it keeps it cold I mean but if you're going in there we'll get all colds I believe is a bigger mouth in nick. Kroll over it does but you know what it's great because I haven't gotten an opportunity to do it. Okay wow I love this water because I like to drink water all day long and it's being so I'll have a lot of wire all day so do you does it. Just go right three or are you like peeing everywhere all the time. I pooh-poohed it out at. Yeah you asked all in water waist. Yes Sir Splash every yeah Franklin clean. The toilets penguin that old bugs bunny cartoon L.. It's not so cute. He would take a Shit Shit Shit. He Bugs Bunny. Some reason is in the Arctic. Or whatever and this penguin is who's wearing a top hat. It's one of the cutest cartoons out there right up there with the bulldog who is forced to adopt the Kim. Yeah this is the thing that led to a bunch of great memes. Yes I was wondering where those means same but the penguin he bugs bunny trying to get rid of the Penguin Penguin cries ice cubes Aw adorable tting sound. When they fall off the he about creative people coming up with things like that? It's so cute. I bet they didn't come up with it though because remember it. Remember the day the clown cried when he was in there to the Jerry. Lewis concentration camp movie. It was when he went. It was so cold in his cell in the When he was jailed right before he goes to the concentration or no he was in the country? Yeah yeah that's right. Well he's he's in the concentration camp and he's got private cell with a sink and stuff and it'll suspicious Spitz say cold. Yes both this big say cold and when he turns it on note to sound effects sound of ice cubes dropping into short short short. I remember a socks were frozen to to prop so yes oxley discussion. It sounds different to me. Yeah I can imagine that cartoonist. Guys smells with their feet up on their desks. Cries fucking ice cubes come up shits and he should ice cubes about this allowed to show to pitch shooting in the home or does what do you say it depends on the size of the whole. I do think the whole is is is. It's much time. We're we're guys want to eat. Of course we're GONNA smoke house and get drunk. I'm already dreamt what how'd you get ahead of us. It's it's been up for ten hours at this okay. No I'm worried about you. Hi mm-hmm cartoons cartoons. I mean this isn't raised by TV. But I'll open it up. What was your favor would shit? You know I'm a huge Renan's timpee fan really. That's like my Mike Cartoon from Childhood and that was and we ought to have billy west on which was amazing cool. Does he do he he actually did both at some point but stimpy ultimately I think is that the John I mean I know never be able to say has ski. Or whatever what's Gone Krzyzewski. He created it right. Yeah I don't know I. Alex is back in the day. It was a great show really really funny and really gross. Yeah that's how you got your sense of humor. Yeah love it is. When I was a child I loved super friends? That was a big deal. Super Fringe was essentially the Justice League his card but they were friends. It was to make a little more like hey watch him. The Concept of justice was too big for kids like they're super in their friends. The Justice League meanwhile kids are reading it macbooks. Now no problems with it Superman Batman wonder woman and then the wonder twins who were invented burke this cartoon and their their Space Monkey League Zanan Jane over the wonder twins now now the phrase wonder twins activate when bowers activate right. Yeah have you ever actually seen that cartoon. I don't think so there were one of them. Could turn into any animal a animal and the other one could turn to any form of water now that became then. Because it's very it's not very cinematic to turn into water. It became. He would turn into anything that was ice. So form of an ice ladder is a lot of is ever needed. DID ANYTHING TO GET FORM OF AN ICE gun. When they would travel? The one would turn into an eagle and would carry a bucket Terry leak the space monkey who was carrying a bucket where the other person the other wonder transformed into water? That was less heavy than a human. I guess I I mean a buckets. Watering is very heavy very heavy but I guess not as hard as a person because heavy as a person not as hard as a person. I've always said that I can swim in water water. But I can't swim in a person. You so much of our bodies are made up of water so much so I mean a good amount most of us in your head uh-huh meaning. We're imagining that. We're all made up. Yeah it's not really about two percent water but we're all gone insane. Yeah what was your cartoon and of choice. I look all of them. Bob Can turn it off. I was Scooby Doo guy. Oh sure he'll look. Yeah I'm a scooby scooby. Doo started having celebrity that fascinating when I was a kid when they would have celebrities. What's elapsed came month's Google logo? Trotter and their own out of West was on there. I think Sonny and Cher yeah all I remember how easy it was to be a celebrity back then. Like if you became a celebrity in the seventies you just stay to celebrity. Well there are also people would watch old game shows. There were people who were famous from being on the the stage. Only me is like not a thing today. Maybe Lin Manuel Miranda every you have to do something else in order to be famous from the state. Oh yeah I I mean. You can't even get on celebrity big brother. You can't even get on the stage unless you're famous at this point this year celebrity Big Brother Her Newborn Leo Butts. Did you ever learn. Did you ever have to a nation got that listening for a musical idea for a musical singer honoring musical interesting. Did you ever think yeah. I had to sing song I never got into. I never got into the musicals mature so nervous about about thinking about so you song. You can't even talk. I couldn't get into any of I didn't get into any I wasn't cast even as in the chorus okay. It was horrible. which ones were they doing doing? Oh God I don't even know at this point I don't know I honestly can't remember fucking push it out of your mind. Why should you fuck? Yeah Ah but why wouldn't you. Why didn't you even make it into the course? Where could you probably so nervous? Addition in front of everyone else which makes sense because you have to sing and play. It would be better if no one were there to watch them. All the other kids through the people of the audition against watching you audition. That is weird same as an audience. It's like these are my peer anytime you think anyone's judging you makes it ten times harder. Yeah but what if I wasn't chorus for a while while and one of the like it just choir whatever and one of the songs that I had a solo of in the competition was I'm a girl What is that song I guess the girl I'm I'm just a girl in the world to sing it where it goes like? I'm a girl. Federal sex only great and I did enjoy being a girl. Yeah I enjoy being a girl sang it. Yeah so you saying that I did a constitutional official. Yeah and how to go I place okay. I think it wasn't embarrassing. And also my other song that I always had to sing a duet in in middle school was Oh God. Pa Sue what the Latin or is that I guess PA soon. I've never heard this guy's Sarah Brightman sings. It feels. Yeah it's it's like an Ave Maria type play it for you. Okay Phantom no no. I think it's like a some sort of some ladies singing some lady. I WanNa hear brave men or are you okay. Fine hold on. What is the some ladies that Susan Boyle Situation Relation becomes famous a now? Suddenly we have to hear a pre roll all add a brand new hairdo. How Weird is that child? It's not Pacific the civic what is I enjoy being Come on riot. Riot definitely knows are now played into the thing. It's Valentine seconds but I have to go through the survey okay. Read the survey I left. I just had to be the flower drums Jackson ways. Yes flower terms John Woman. Thirteen now I can imagine a little better because I do Weirdo. Who can we hear you? You try to sing this like seriously not. I don't think so. I WanNa hear you try to send us what is set up can we. Can you please earnestly honestly sing. Sing this song please. No no please. Okay where's I enjoy being a girl for firearms drums on. That's from flower. Trump's from church church has it's like it's all it does. Is this pie church. It's it's Pie. Jesus basically I Jesus Jesus and then it's like or poor Geez It's a from the DC. Ray Yeah Ah Yeah I remember those auditions I forgot about that aspect of it that you are in front of the other people who are auditioning and and it was like you and the piano just you and the piano. It's still horrible. Side Note Means Merciful. Jesus and then it goes on to say lamb of God. He's he really merciful. You can hope he is. He's the Most Merciful. God is the one with a chip on his shoulder. One time Jesus got mad at two fig tree and he cursed all that that victory is still around no well might be like wondering you might be still alive by bears no fix. I don't even I know what you mean. There's a there's a passage in the Bible where Jesus gets mad at you want to know or not. I'm trying to give you the good word. Yeah Jesus Jesus wants them figs right and that's fiction has many figs and he's like you know what fuck so you're Barron forever crazy resent and they wrote about it in a book. Yeah and definitely have to include this. I mean it's crazy main bad. It's it's amazing in the sense of like. If you were watching a movie it would be a cool part of him just like thunderbolts. Coming out of there. It's a very mob boss kind of thing to do as an example too because because you same thing to you but why included like it just makes him seem like a Dick. I don't know it's very petty back to what Song you're saying if you can remember one from conditioners in high school. When I was doing shows we would sing the songs from the show? Although I remember I remember this girl re does in my class class. I remember her auditioning of saying Steve. Your own version had a little fun with that Doc. She did Rainbow Connection. Oh she did not that one. Oh different one. Yeah same. Same title did this thing where I see that you said people do where they assume like like a singing accent. Oh yeah why. Aw there's so many choices were different. She wouldn't like say a hard are and it's usually because there impersonating someone else who's singing it like there was someone who was that time only kermit the frog relief. Well that's true. I had a friend who would sing and she would do. All of ours really hard and I was like you. Don't do this when you speak. She would always be like when the world you know and it was like we don't understand and then I realized it was because she was imitating Ella Fitzgerald or something like that. So yeah now the style of singing that I call the baby. Cajun agent of we talked about this. Now that you wanna get Google Goo GA GA P. It's your own. It really put it back on while wearing that diaper gigantic. Save for any pressure that WHO who says two thousand nineteen. It's where it's it's it's women. Do this female singers do this. Where they clarify they do they do this sort of accent? That's only for. I singing like they'll say toyin instead of turn Utah and then you know she has like. Yeah Yeah but you're saying that the they don't WanNa they almost like who does this. WHO Name names? Who is this? I don't know anybody anybody. I don't know if anybody famous does out of your friends who doesn't well. It's also it's hard to sing the word. Turn so it's very hard so it's easier to sing vows toe those like easy tonight. Turn audience member. I love that. Oh it's hard to turn. He had to say everything. There's a youtube video radio that to somebody making fun of this and I think it's called how to hip sing and this. Yes it's this I don't remember her name name. But is this young lady who has these gigantic fake glasses on. She you thought I was Gonna say earrings again tick gigantic failure. And he has this he has. He's your fiction's the fake tits Allen Schick the weirdest thing people say about that like I. I would never stop hunting when I was like what I think you would. Yeah I think you'd understand. It was your own body. Well because you also have a Dick and you can touch that. Whatever you want and still don't manage leave the house? Why if they were your own tents would like if your Dick on the smaller your back? Then you couldn't reach you police back back back mop commercial mop you said it so confidently the big ship out of your body can only be a big mopped commercial Commercial which one was your were. The MOP is jealous sad. I hate commercials like that live forever in my brain they take a song over on my bed. So that's what have you forgotten in your life that you wish you could remember. I wish I knew I was on the radio. What have you forgotten your life? I'm sure there's stuff that you're like. Oh I wish I could remember. I wish I could remember. I wish I was like Mary. Lou Do whatever we're reading. It's not great that I got her name wrong and she's on her nose everything right she never forgets. Yeah Fuck you okay. I that I thought was wrong. which ones Mary Lou Retton? You never know honey. You're never wrong. Thank you the sheep. Good coup Marylou Hanner she remembers everything that everything was total recall. And I I mean while that's it's probably very frustrating on some level. I'm sure it's a difficult thing and also I think it makes her. OCD or whatever. It was just hearing somebody talking about this. But I also kind of wish that I had that because it'd be so cool to remember to Boston like because I forget I forget everything and I forget like important details of like experiences says. Yeah I forget the end of every movie I forget like everything Jonah movie so you can remember the end. Okay all right AH citizen Kane. I saw one time. I know what time I know that the sled is Rosebud. That's that's the beginning babies and I don't remember anything else that's the whole point. Yeah but I don't know that you know what I mean. It's not like I. Okay Raiders of the lost Ark. And I don't I saw that when I was. I'm no Gary Maurice Movies six cents. I mean that's how that ends either. I know that it that I know what the secret is. YEA but no I don't do you remember when he puts on his wings and he goes flying up to heaven. WHOA you're the man expected? Virtually ignorant Michael Michael that might go angels chills Angel. Is that great that when we die. We're going to go get the hang out with Michael Jackson. Intent on the celebrities can cools. Are Kelly believe Michael Jackson dead. He will be about. We are now. I can't tell you now. But Watch the thanking Heaven. Everyone exists in all like all future dead people will be there and all the dead people are there. So it's like it's not like you're you're going to have Vinnie. You're waiting around twenty years for someone to get there. It's like anyone who's ever going to be alive and going to be dead heaven and honor that the same time how it is. I don't know it exists in a different plane of time. I don't believe in what's John Lennon you believe in Beatles you just imagined it you just imagine that he did believe is very developed. I think it's about I. I mean you might have read my interview which you did because your mouth off about religion about got it. I know that was going to be the question. I was happy that they were more interesting question. But for those of us who have not those people who've not read your interview. What is your a position on after death? I believe that people's animals souls exists insects. Sure sure I'm not lying through animals. I've seen I don't want to interact with them so I don't really care I'm saying like pets of mine. Things that have died that I cared about. Aw I feel have a soul and exist in a plane. That is imperceptible to me. But I don't really believe believe that everyone is gathered round but sometimes I do picture a heaven like thing and think okay but I also think I don't really at the end of the day I don't really know enough about anything to hey that something is or isn't true. Do you think it's feelings or do we have cases in which our souls reside or are we just kind of floating along and we can't even imagine what it is. I think that's what it is that it's like some no science has not DISCI- yeah in our lab late one night this you'll meet ago talking or I. I just minds a bummer. I don't think there's anything. Well I kind of feel that way to to a little bit but I think that's okay because then you aren't conscious of that and that's okay yeah. Is Nobody in pain. Gene in that scenario true. I think that I think that there's no like devils. No poking people with pitchforks. I only in hell. That's what they do but there is by the way that's what did they do with with the pitchforks. Is They poke people and they pick them up like when you poke a hotdog and put it on the fire you talk and put it on the show. I mean I mean yeah yeah. It is a little yummy. But you know what I mean. That's the worst part is not there for delicious another for decoration. Like a lot of people think they're not there for like hey I'll stick you with this if you don't get the fire. They're literally the threat. They're having people literates here. What Paul thinks? I don't believe in an afterlife. I think at this is it Suit but I you know when you get into energy can be neither created nor destroyed. It's like well that's a lot you know a life is a lot of energy and I don't know what happens there but I don't believe in I don't I don't believe in ghosts. I don't believe in you know that kind of thing saying that that people are stuck on some you know loop or whatever that they have unfinished business or I don't know I I love uh other people's go stories. I love stories but I don't believe any of them. Well book like Friends of mine. Who have like I experienced this thing? I'm like I'm sure that you think you did it while you pat them. I think here's I also I always come back to. There is so much about ourselves that we don't don't know there's so much in science that we don't know everything could have a scientific China scientific explanation again into an argument with my wife and I will get into this argument frequently because she's diagnostic eighth atheist and she'll she'll say yeah. We talk about this every single day. Praise forbade racers. We wake up. Are you still think like I say if someone were to present me with. I don't think there's a god but if someone were to present me with proof of God I wouldn't say well I don't believe that. Do you know what she says. That means you're an agnostic. Because you don't know and I said yes I don't know for sure. Of course no one knows for sure but I don't think that there is. I don't believe that we should tip you in atheism. That's what tips. Maybe that's why what if Jesus is encourage you saw Jesus walking along he curses a fig tree would would that be proof both eight it takes for me. Yeah I think so. I don't know but I also don't but it's kind of I think it just it just but I was raised with religion religion and it's still the way that I live my life. You know by those by those principles and the the thing that drives me so crazy as is false Christians and and people who just won't acknowledge that they are not in line people who profess to be in line with the teachings of Christ and are not at all can't be insane. I'm whatever the laws are. That's what I'm thinking about please. That's how we introduce every ideal. We want to say something. I'm thinking of thinking I was thinking. I'm just thinking about friends of mine who were raised by atheist. Parents and I think they're fine and they have but they from the get go have the belief that there is nothing and I think almost for children dron. It's nice to believe that there's something like Santa Claus I was Gonna say he's very comforting for me. It's kind of like just kinda good idea. It would help. But I thought by the time I believe in God. You're probably right but by the time I got to be twelve or whatever then. It became very oppressive to me of like. Oh God God. I can't do anything that I think that I WANNA do. Because I'm going to be burning in hell and it just became. I sort of think we're I. I'm happy with how how it went for me. And I believe that there was but I didn't really know anything about it. I didn't go to church or like a read. The Bible so I didn't have the rule I saw my list Stanford you did. Your family have a religion might fit. My mom is a Greek Orthodox. My Dad went to Catholic school. Grow around south like they didn't I went to church. Greek Orthodox Church like four eastern Christmas. And we didn't go and they glad they respected using but like and. It was pretty much just coming hymns while he was in a different language. Which I think is part of what kind of interesting about? It's so boring to kids. Listen to something at church in a different language but it's also cool because I'm not taking any of it in just kind of going like this place racist pretty and you know you're kind of the ceremony. Yeah look at those hats and there are there elements of that that I still think really cool but I the hats of course the Senate balls that they wave around I loved. I loved midnight mass. When I was a kid I loved it? I loved this or there was that aspect of it but there was these people were like packed in there. You knew the next day was Christmas. It was it was so they had the Big Nativity scene up on the altar. It was very exciting. There was so much ceremony. Meanwhile you know Santa's at your place and you know Santa's at your place yeah Santa's going through through my underwear drawer and shit. He loves WHAT IF HE NASTY LITTLE man. He goes to Catholics homes on Christmas Eve when he knows there amid I just fucking rubs his face facing their tenders puts his balls on the butter with those white poops if focused. They could throw up at that could you. Yeah I wanna I talk about burning off of Santa Claus. Talk about throwing up when we come back all right. We Ohrid need to take a break. We'll be right back. Sounds great though. Hey guys ladies take a breather. Remember the days when you were always ready to go. Oh you know what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying. What I'm saying? 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Okay Hey now when I we knew to Earth so you hate something in you might well. No when I worried I thought I would just be throwing to kiss the bride part you. I didn't know her okay so we have to. We have two dogs dogs and you have to pick up their poop right half to you. Should you should okay but I I as you know I live by the laws. That's right I pick up to poop okay so I am able to pick up the POOP and put it in bags and whatever okay now the other day I go out uh onto my lawn and there's this dump there and ice get in my head that I think a coyote has left it okay. Yeah and I'm and so I'm going to pick it up and I cannot stop going out like wrenching. Yeah because it's something that I don't love and it's gross that I'm picking up poop and then later I find out that it was one of my dogs and I shouldn't have been researching but there's something think about like if I'm ever going. I see another dog poop or like a homeless guys poop or something like that. I just go start going. But if it's my dog's it's like gone. Let's pick up this poop right here and then I hear it's like that with babies to like after you know there shouldn't in their whatever the fuck they wear Typo. Yeah that's what you call them and you're just like mind you don't mind because it's like I love this baby so much. Yeah so what do you think there's something biological so that I babysat so many babies and change your life did make me WanNa throw it many times. Because he didn't love them. I mean I love. I've been yeah but yeah but I mean you know I love them a start to if someone were to say an extra twenty dollars I would like it would be like autumn Jackson worthy the you know but I think that's probably true people's babysitters sometimes but actually I know somebody who can't change their own kid's diaper you're really gonNA Madonna. That's okay let me think. Oh but they feel sick at the idea. Wow Oh I know anyone heard the whisper. Yeah I just think there must be some sort of biological thing to protect children or something. Otherwise Caveman would have just let you know. Let them die or whatever. The dogs are children. I think they are for babies. I think there's something about an. It's your dog that you've had a puppy you're you're probably familiar with the scent of their specific really then like a dog. But you don't know my dog shit. So that's what I'm saying is it was is my dogs poop so I do shape and you made up in your head that it wasn't various well it was shaped like a coyote was the morning biscuits of elicit what that looks like a cookie cutter Coyote. What shits is in the shape of? Yeah that would everything everything so much easier. If whenever any organism shed English shape of what it was 'cause he pooped shaped poops. I don't think out like what if they looked exactly like you. I love it. What if what if your butthole had like a fingerprint he your butthole hard from ever? What sticky there sir? My family had thing discussion. One time about if you were to take a bite of something that somebody what else bit into like a pizza or something I I tend to not like that. I tend to like that. But if it's your if it's your like my my siblings my kids CBS were saying they didn't mind it if it was like their kid right because this because they are of me. Yeah significant other. Yeah but sibling to sibling. No have to say my brother's Deodorant and he was like why don't you just keep that. Oh I didn't no. That was full. Soap is the other thing you think like soap in the shower with a roommate bizarre late but but soap doesn't get dirty but here's the thing a weird thing that you should say that. Imagine trump deal but I am but just because it's exactly that seventh grade. I remember in science class really wanting to ask my science teacher about soap. Had Germs on it but I thought it was a dumb question I never asked and I've honestly thought about it my whole life. Well let's figure it out tomorrow right. Yes one aww you side when I was in when I was in Chemistry Class Ju. I was a junior in high. School is the only class I ever failed to go so much. Well you didn't know much about chemistry. That's that's that's the only it's the only know much about science books. I don't know much about science book. Friend Chad took I this chemistry teacher and I. He's he was. He fancied himself a very very funny guy and like a cool teacher and that was seventh grade he was like he would say bullshit in front of us and it was like oh heated rules. He said he used to say there's no such thing you can ask me anything. There's no such thing as a stupid question and I remember once asking him because I heard this and of course it. It doesn't make any sense when I was a kid. I had heard that hot. Water freezes faster than cold water. Oh yeah stupid. Well I I think so and I was assured that there was no such thing and I asked the guy in front of the class and he ridiculed me fair. That's Shit Myself Hi. Sandra Science teacher he was also really funny and I loved that of course and I was reading. I remember in seventh grade. Did you have different teachers for different subjects. Yeah Okay I had. It's sort of like the same teacher first. Through eighth it was. It was one teacher for every class pressure on one person. It's ridiculous. I was reading the book. Sign Language by Jerry Seinfeld and I loved it. I thought it was so funny and then I get. I Love Very Jerry Seinfeld. I was thirteen but I gave gave it to hang. Your boyfriend was six. I lend it to him. I lent it thinking. Oh you'll like this do because you're funny. And then he never got back. I was pissed I it gave it to him and I was like I can ever ask for back. I was over thinking. That's a very specific thing. When you loan something to someone you you realize they think? I think that was clear. Yeah did you say like hey if you want to read this or like I have no idea how how I phrased. I probably had a crush on him or something saw. ooh How back to the sharing food and all this kind of stuff. GotTa I've always wondered and just this just happened me. Two nights ago I went out to dinner with friends and I've been out to dinner with probably both of you. You've probably seen the play dinner with friends. Probably you probably think we've traveled continent. I think I might have been out to dinner with each of you but it you know with the whole double dipping thing and everyone's like suddenly very aware aware of getting this spit although sharing each other yet any fancy restaurant when they bring a desert. What do they do you just they just give you spoons? And then you're sharing each other side. I don't like that Because I've had that happen with people that I don't really know and then it's it's like you're basically all biting until like there's a chunk in the middle of it has like bites on all this is most people don't do that. They're just like all bets. Are off go anywhere with this yet. Yeah that's why I don't get it. Like chop the desert into equal. That would be great pieces that. Why don't they chop up the desert into equal pieces? We'll say say it's a chocolate dessert into equal pieces. Yeah we're going to get a chuckle is for the table and just chopping equal slop that fails. Yeah yeah got it into four separately or Ramic in Sinai. Why can't or bring a serving spoon and separate bowls for you? Love going out to dinner cool where you were about to say that you don't think about it. I think it can be great but other times. It's you know what dinner I flashed on from the tour. was you and me together at the hotel I wasn't there were dinner. We did have a great dinner and that well. How many do you remember that watermelon skirt? Yes I do remember. That was the woman had a skirt. Sitting at the bar looked so cool. It was a big watermelon. Cope lamented wanted her to tell me about the skirt. who was the shape of a water color of a shape of a skirt? But let's ice bridge and it was kind of she was sitting on a stool drapes down like perfectly and it just looks really cool. She was trying to get us to like it. She was begging for attention. Dinner sounds so cool. Yeah I think it was the first time that we had done a one on one meal like that. Yeah well and it was so great. Conversation flowed so much better compelling there was an impediment missing. Yeah we're thinking Oh look we have to take another break this sucks. We'll be right back. The my friend got married on a tiny farm in the middle of Indiana. I stayed in a tiny room and very quaint bed and breakfast on the farmland and I got to snuggle up under an old quilt and presumably antique bed. That creeped every time. I shifted my weight. The wedding was beautiful and the best part was there was no commute after the party. For those of you celebrating love out of town. We have great news with green from AMEX. You can get three three times. The points on travel including airfare hotel stays train rides car rentals and more no matter your destination. What's not to love? Learn more at American Express Dot com slash green from AMEX terms apply. Okay we're back sorry right when we did. I know I'm sorry. One thing that we should say is that chef. Kevin is not with us today. So he's Outta town. But we got dig over here. Zig has an answer about whether soap gets dirty zig hold on one second where is he. He's he's out of those men he's with those men Hashtag Hashtag. Those men are what do you got does soap get dirty all right so it says get dirty it says germs can and most likely due on live on although soap But it's very unlikely that it can make you sick or call cintas skin infection. They recommend using liquid soap. Not Bar so okay so if you have a roommate out there and you're sharing the soap you should use a wash cloth and liquid logical office for but but I don't. I hate liquid soap for your body body. Audie wash I only encountered hotels really hate it. Yeah I don't like it I love it feels. It feels wasteful to a Loofah far. Oh Bill O'Reilly was his. That's right what did he do. He said he said philophical instead instead of Loofah. I forget he wanted to use a Loofah on Sunday. We'll awful each other. I the way they told you how I had this. There was like a year where I kept saying balloon instead of umbrella. What our year all year sometimes still all fear that I said it like I'll be Sablon very adult? You're saying yet on rainy day like today. You know what happened initially was. I was babysitting this kid. This was when I lived in New York and I said look at that umbrella and it was about a balloon and I was like Doc Watson I just say and then I have multiple times and like Oh my God I think about both of those words together so so for either of them. You may say the opposite. I don't know that I've ever called an umbrella a balloon but I've worried that they have I mean they're they're definitely on the same plane. In as far as rate up silly words go they could just as easily have been just like just like you. Can you love that. I called you balloon one time when I was talking about. You know my body's really is getting in my head really big. I used you as an umbrella ones. Yeah yeah now held you by the weight I wanNA hear about why you don't like Loofah southern Loofah. You don't like liquid new. I don't think so because it feels like warring work. You have to keep going back to the smart. I don't like wasting plastic bottles. Yeah that's Ah too but you know GonNa do not use it. I mean look. I'll use it if I have to travel with my own bar of soap in a little soap coughing so class you you do. Yeah like it's dead. Yeah I remember when I close the little silent prayer and I'll throw throw dirt on it. You strike me as someone who has a place for everything and everything in its place. Yeah it's true. I I like that ever since I was a kid. I liked so if you were to open consider compartments in your junk drawer. Do you have a junk drawer. Ever everybody junk everybody gotTa jump draw if you open it up. Is it just filled with stuff or or is everything no it's instead of just fill the stuff okay. So so the junk provider. Maria condo safety junk are crazy though. That's what they're supposed to be. One drawer is for the silverware. Because there's so much sewer draws for the Suva draw art junk but you can't have an entire drawer for rubber bands you shouldn't and you can't riverbeds but you know what I mean. You can't avenue entire drawer for a tape measure. You need a junk drawer that the rubber bands go bad you. Yeah after a while. They'll just yeah right right my cat. Eight rams little and she was scooting all over the floor trying to get it out of hanging out there and did you like pull back and snap it torture now and then we had to get it removed by the vet. I believe in what do pull on it. It's all right. It's time for a feature if this is the first time listening to three them. Welcome welcome welcome. Welcome in our in our last segment. Mint one of US finds a feature. Paul has found a feature for us to play to feature. I don't remember where this came from. But it's not like I don't have an attribution attribution so I don't think this was a listener one. Okay but it's called no to no no to no ten no easy rules. Great just just ban everyone from saying yes or no Choose one person to start. He or she has only one minute to answer as many questions from the group as possible all without answering yes or no if they make it to the end without tripping up they get point all questions need to be answered any hesitations or does does impose a ten second penalty. Come on player with the most points wins. That's the whole point of the points are capped by what how many questions you answer or I know if you're going to get one point. Yeah and you end if you do a more You get added ten seconds that you lose you lose time no but it would be gaining time because it's losing time would be to your advantage because then your time would be over quicker but then that means there's fewer questions that you get to answer so you you have to you. Don't get points per questions you get points for getting through the entire period without tripping up to have more time you have more time to say yes or no so. I think it's a guy thing is adding ask your okay okay. Let's do all right your silly ass Paul said we need to. That's quite all right. I appreciate and it's a rainy rainy day in Paul's out in the rain. What is happening here? Your commitment to this is incredible. Well it's like I told you I started this podcast the rain nor sleet nor snow. Oh nor gloom of night. We'll keep me from again together. You silly asses okay. So we're doing one minute or what. How long is it and we just ask any any questions? Okay start they have one minute to answer as many questions from the group as possible without answering yes or not so. Who's going to answer for? I'm going to answer I. Okay okay. Ready and go. Are you a man. I believe I am. How old told am I do you like your age? I think that my age is succession for the place where my body is at is your hair long. My hair tends to be short then long depending on when I get my haircut shirts. Shirts seemed fine to me. Do you live in this building thing of course not are you a white male please. Are you seven feet tall. So why would I be seven feet tall. Are you five feet tall somewhere in the middle in between those. Are you an alien. Might my Taibbi me. Oh shave negative seconds ten seconds. Of course I do like Eupol. That's it okay all right. What are your thoughts? I also think that should should be a one word. Answer how would how would that work like you could say yes. So you're just trying to come up with synonyms stressor Yes or no how. How did you feel on your? I felt it was a little difficult but I believe I successfully did it all right. Let's try try at the same time. Lets try okay. You want to go next. Yes I'll go next and go. What color is your broach? Well it's not a yes or no question so I'm not I didn't say ask yes or no question. It actually beard many questions does say yes or no question so I'll tell you it's much easier to not say no question I tried. I thought I would throw them off with one game feeling comfortable third again. I rose her. I'm the closer open baby. Don't the open stupid mouth ready. Never seen this version of the clock. Oh Shit ever swiped over. There's a stop. I want to see that right now. We're all checking everyone. We gotta take a break all stop Wad. What do we do and we? That's fucking great. I don't have of it yeah Update your phone. No you're not in the right thing. Go to the stop. Watch one stop watch. Okay don't do that. You'll go to your ninety alarms. They don't have it to where you benchmarks alarms sellable all right. Who are you Ben? Short go who are you Ben Schwartz. I don't believe I'm benchmarks. Are you interested in karate. I find karate interesting. WHO's your favorite karate already person? My favorite person. Mr Doggy is here friend. I wish are you believing in God I I am not believing in God currently. Are you wearing a hat. I do wear a hat now. Yes Oh oh no. He didn't get through it. He doesn't get a point. Oh Shit Yeah didn't get through it didn't O'meara straight tearing ready only use my stop. Watch whatever to you reset it. You should should've been freaking out here. We go are you wearing a hat. I believe I'm wearing a hat. Why aren't you wearing a hat because I am wearing a hat? What color is your head blue? Are you sure about that. I am absolutely sure my head is blue. Why are you not wearing a blue hat because I am actually wearing a blue hat? I don't believe you are tell me you aren't. I am wearing a blue hat. Do you think your grandparents are in heaven. I believe my grandparents souls around me do you. I think your mom will die. I do not want to think about such a thing. Have you ever seen a ghost. I have not really seen a ghost. I have believed that I have seen in one. Actually I believe it was a figment of my imagination. Why are your eyes not blew? My eyes are blue. My good man socks socks on. I do have socks on. Are you wearing underwear. I'm disgusting question to ask disgusting. Are you sorry that you came here today. They of course always time head. Well we both get points okay so two points in one deal for you and then what it would soon again until one of us wins and but it lets you shorter times okay. Faster shorter times faster questions till one of us wins order times faster. Thirty second round. Okay and ready set go. Do you love your wife. Of course I do. Of course I did. Did you drive a car today. I believe so this is it raining. I think it is do you like us. I don't know did you the Orange Lodge. I believe that I was successful in that endeavor. Do you like do you say yes. I don't think so do do you say no. I can't remember if I do. Don't what Star Wars Star Wars Star. Look I was ready to go off on three to seven seconds on the clock thirty seconds out the way Oh yeah for me for you. That's right because Paul's eliminated. He's out. Okay here we go. Is Paul wearing a hat. You Bet Ya well star wars. Tell me about star wars. I don't know anything about about the thing you know technically but said Cayetano. W that's different. Is that the same. It's not the same. Do you like your husband. Yes of course I know where. That's that's how we do. Badger them question power search for life. I believe I believe I can fly old castle never eh Lauren. Married since our last episode is true. That's true Lauren's married now you love it. Yeah Yeah you love it. It's awesome. Yeah what's what's awesome about it. I just love him a lot. So you so you wake up a new. It gives you a feeling of comfort yes. I'm very happy that I'm with yeah you feel the same lives. Yes yeah I feel about Paul's wife that's so fucked about Kuok and let it makes me comforted that. You're married knowing that your married. Both of them don't you. Sometimes it gives people like some credit. Though you're like they have a great wife feels good like I'm that makes them here are good and that that's why people would rather murder their wives than divorced them because they're standing with their friends will go down. You know what I mean. It's like it's not. I don't think it's about money. Sometimes maybe it is about money. They can't get divorced because then suddenly I'm not GonNa have you've all only have half my money or whatever but I think it's really think they're getting away with get away with it. She'll she'll just disappear all the sympathy nolting. I'm a bad I don't even think it's because has they want sympathy. I think it's because they're like I can't imagine a world where I have to go to all of my friends and family and say remember that wedding that we had. I think it's a big part of it. For a lot of people I remember. A friend of mine was getting divorced after years of marriage and he was the way he was framing. It was I I have to face that I am in a failed. Marriage failed and I was like well. I mean had kids and everything. Yeah it's like but it's like thank you can't look at it like it's a personal failure like obviously the thing wasn't working and better for your kids that you don't stay together some arbitrary reasons it's like spill divorce your microwave. If your microwave isn't working you don't have to carry guilt about it if I have to accept that microwave isn't working. Yeah things change. I don't know I don't it. It's like you know your perception of your existence changes as you get older and your relationship dynamic changes and if you have kids that's a whole nother thing that changes that it's like the idea that you're expected to just do something because you said at one time is actually crazy but I think there are people out there who have like they they. They love their standing in the community about people that were in the church when I was growing up who there was one of that aspect is a whole different. There was like there was one deacon I remember who's who was dating someone my age I mean after she was eighteen or whatever but like a married Deacon who who is like fifteen years younger or whatever and it all came out they they'd been having an affair and stuff like that and it's just like some people cannot imagine the world where you see the world where you come clean about that kind of thing and so they go out. Let's just throw her off a boat. Yeah I do you do you have this thing I you know. Throw Your Life you know couples that are the seemed to always be at odds with each other. But they're still together and so you think I have a friend. Norte Sir. Friends who argue about being agnostic in atheists all the time all all the time the moment I wake up before I put on my makeup. But you think to yourself and maybe this is just me. This is not much rather than thinking. Well they should get divorced. You think they're making a work always assume soon people are fine but then they ended up splitting up. And you're like Oh yeah of course couldn't have been done this a long time ago. Yeah Right. I'm always talk. I feel so silly one. I'm surprised by it. I think I'm ready the first fight the coup up and I have cut the amazing. I won't allow it. No I was GONNA say I've known people where like they seem to hate each other and then they get divorced on like good. I hope they're gonNA get divorced and they do it on my sweet and then everyone's better and it's happy. I never think anyone is going to get divorced because you when you meet the couple and you you meet them as they are which is always bickering or whatever anything. I guess that's just their dino. What though I think okay having been divorced? I think that I can See The at more like oh they should get divorced and then they sweep daredevil divorce radar because divorce excellent. I just think it's thank with toxic. Waste completely blind deaf. She cannot speak echo-location. So you think you're able to see so. Do you see it with us. I don't I don't actually but I I feel like it's I mean I mean I don't even WanNa talk about people because you know I wouldn't want to. I don't hope for people to go through a painful experience but I do think that people I know who have been through a similar thing as me are happy on the other side because it was not a good situation to be in. I think if you can get to sixty. I think you're good like sixty years old. It's like if you can get there do it every six. You know what I mean. If you are sixty I'm saying like do whatever you need to get divorced stay together. Whatever it's like it's so hard to even just to get to to live just a legit threat? Just let's just like you know what I mean by the time we all have dementia and we all have you know what I meaning just really taken. Let's all just stop I know. Let's stop judging. Each other is what. I'm trying to say people. Why should it be you look? That's GonNa do it for us. Am I right. Yeah you're right. Let me apologise listener. For any time I've sniffles on Mike. I apologize this. I'm not always conscious of it. You sound a little like you're in a cave cap. I am a little bit indicate and I would like to say you're welcome to everyone for not eating on Mike. Yeah you did not You've had some. I've actually been looking at your crackers. Haven't had any looking at your cracker you've been pointing them at me Since this started aimed at Scott the barrel these crackers is right. I have to be honest. I've imagined that that is a cracker gun that you're pointing at me and you're gonNA shoot a cracker into my mouth. Oh you just ate on Mike you accepted. Someone's thank you by saying you're welcome and then you turned on them. Mattingly played can't believe masterful. Meanwhile I'm not eating nor my sniffling. All right that's GonNa do it for us. This sucks. What did I agree to do the show again with you guys? uh-huh bye bye. If you you are thinking about proposing or getting proposed to or you want to propose to yourself you should create your own one of a kind engagement ring with brilliant Earth where exclusive unique designs are brought to life by master jewellers with their virtual triumph feature. You can easily find the perfect style. That's right for you order today for delivery by Christmas and receive a surprise fry's gift with the purchase of an engagement ring. What's IT GONNA be to see terms for this special offer into shop? All Brilliant Earth Selections go to brilliant Earth Dot com slash three them.

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As It Happened Episode 8: Pests

As It Happens from CBC Radio

28:08 min | 10 months ago

As It Happened Episode 8: Pests

"The he smashed pretty much every billboard and streaming record that matters it has already been streamed more than a billion times. People still to this day point to this is the moment everything changed. But whether you agree with those claims are not this podcast is it really about him either you're not an astute businessman or you're inherently racist when it comes to black music in his country? This is not a drake podcast available now on CBC listen or wherever you get your podcast. This is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm Chris Hayden. All summer. We're bringing you some of the very best from the as it happens archives. This is as it happened the archive edition. Tonight's theme has its whether by wing paw claw the as it happens archives are overrun with an infestation of pesky animal stories. We really ought to air out again bright eyed and bushy tailed the creator of a website that tracks global cyberattack says we shouldn't be worrying about rogue nation states it's rodent nation states more specifically squirrels that pose the greatest threat there seems to be much more heightened fear and uncertainty and doubt attributed to the cyberattack versus the Squirrel attack which happens all the time twenty, four hour laundry cat. An Ontario woman has to put her pet pepe under nightly house arrest to keep the thieving feline for a beeline to the neighbors clotheslines. Oh, my God he's brought cow he's brought long johns. He's brought t shirts. He's brought address this morning when I got up there, there was three or four articles beginning the yard and time for a pet squawk Nova Scotia man shares his cautionary tale about a suitcase full of spicy pepperoni Hungary flock of seagulls an open hotel window. This shocking thing for me was the saliva I didn't know that seagulls drooled. Room was covered with feathers or one form of excretion or another. It was not pretty as it happened to the archive addition radio that loves a storyteller whose both unflappable and Gullible. I. Don't want to alarm. You rest assured most of the bugs, birds, rodents, and other assorted vermin you're about to meet are pretty tame at worst they may be a nuisance or make you a bit squeamish but I must say one passed tonight's program poses a real threat and quite frankly the threat is so great that we feel it's our responsibility as a public broadcaster to start with a sobering interview. The reveals the degree of power these particular past possess I am, of course talking about squirrels. In Two Thousand Sixteen Carol spoke with the creator of Cyber Squirrel one dot com for obvious reasons this brave comrade asked to remain anonymous but he kindly gave us an unprecedented window into his research and website which maps quote unclassified Cyber Squirrel operations against critical infrastructure worldwide on. Consider this interview a past PSA of the highest order to this town. Nervous. Should we be about a squirrel? Cyberattack Cyber attacks should are quite frequent and you should definitely worry about them more than you should a electronic cyberattack. What's the distinction you making? What are the two kinds of attacks? Well, one is caused by squirrels or other animals in one is caused by a rogue nation state trying to take out a power installation over the internet how often have rogue nation states attempted or successfully. Taken out the power grid in the United States. zero. and. How many tens of squirrels done it I have six, hundred, twenty, three incident. So far. I six, hundred, eighty incidents. Against Zero. Actual networks worldwide, not just the United States that's what rogue nations have never taken down. They've never been able to cause a power outage anywhere right in the united. States there are a lot of quote classified into. So maybe incidents that have occurred that that we don't really know about it. Okay. But see you have no access to classified power outages. Unclassified Cyber School operations you have listed six, seven twenty-three. Why did you do this? Why did you come up with this map? Well, the squirrel outage versus cyber attack outage has been a an emmy, my atropine, the information security industry for quite some time. There was a presentation at a conference in Chicago a couple of years ago that that specifically brought this out and that's kind led me to say, Hey, I should try maybe we should track these outages. See how many really are and so I created the twitter account at first and we kept up doing that for a couple of years and then I'm like well, we have all this data What happens if we map it? How does it look like? So that's where the website came from and what exactly do these squirrels due to take down the power network two things. One is the sometimes on cables, and of course, when they non the cable that could that is not a good thing and they ended up getting electrocuted and become a martyr, but also sometimes parts of the infrastructure are not well shielded, and so if the Squirrel makes a contact with one part of the instruction and then contacts another part and creates the ground short the electric flows through the squirrel instead of the wire causing the system to go out and. Customers then lose power and so now there's no way to protect ourselves against squirrels, their arguments I guess against. Attacks of other nature. So what do you think people should do about school attacks on the power power power companies actually spend quite a bit of money to protect themselves against animal outages. There are actually companies that sell things called Squirrel guards power companies can buy to put up on their equipment but they're not foolproof and they do cost money, and of course, power companies don't want to spend money they wanNA make money But at the same time, there are things that power companies can do to protect themselves from actual cyber attacks by implementing better electronic security. I actually work in the information security industry, and one of the one of the things we try to do is help companies secure their infrastructure so that they are protected against hackers and have you told them. That is more likely that the squirrel we'll do this attack and these these external threats. well, they probably aware of that. I haven't actually come out and told them that I'm tracking swirl outages. I'm not sure how they would appreciate that but there is a risk as I said on both sides just that when it comes to electrical power outages there seems to be much more hype and fear and uncertainty and doubt attributed to the cyberattack versus the Squirrel attack which happens all the time. Why did you decide that you wanted to be anonymous in his interview? The company I worked for doesn't really know that I'm tracking these squirrel outages and so they may find there's a little bit of conflict there and I'd rather not have that conversation with him. All right we'll leave it there. Thanks speaking with us no, problem. From two thousand sixteen that was Carol speaking with the creator of Cyber Squirrel one. Dot Com. It should be noted that even though they were much lower on the list of threats Cyber Scroll one is also tracking power outages caused by Raccoons at present squirrels and raccoons don't appear to be in cahoots, but we should definitely assume that day will come and start consulting people like Deborah Pepper Click now. Ms Clinton was a thing or two about how to tame the masked marauders in two thousand former host Mary Lou, Finlay spoke with his click about her pet bandit after Guinness World. Records crowned him the world's largest raccoon Ms. Clinch. How big is bandit? He's about the size of a medium sized dog weighing in at fifty four point four pounds gained a bit of weight since you weighed in for the Guinness yeah. We had them do that about three weeks ago for an ear ache and they waived him in then and since. He was declared the Guinness Book Record Holder. He gained almost two pounds. Is it hard to get him on the scales? No Ain't as a matter of fact, he there's they have a big on the floor or they just walk them on but that's at this time. That's it. He's got to go on a very strict diet. So the last couple of weeks he he's been getting new eukanuba diet cat food and he simply hates it. Before. You name it. we went and put bolts on our snack cabinets because he figured out how to open And lives in the House Oh yeah. He he hasn't been in a cage for three years. A full run the house. Really Yeah, and he loved fruit loops. He was addicted to pringle. and He loved oreo cookies, we should not allowed to have chocolate. And we even have a cabinet right decided my stove in order to close that you have to put a spoon through the handle and put it through the the door of the oven and then closed doors they can't get in it. Well we heard a noise the other day and we went out and hear my dog pulled the door down. So he could get the spoon out to open up the pringles. So they both could reap the benefits. It's a team effort. See. When we got banned ban, it was really tiny. He was only maybe three inches long and my female colleague was pregnant at the time and she nursed him literally nursed him. She nursed him. and my dog thinks it's one of the POPs. My Ben Areas and has called imprinting young raccoon even learned how to bark. You're kidding now. so He's been helping himself basically. Eat Him any of this stuff? He just he goes on his own, he knows how to open up the refrigerator door only opens up the drawers and all the vegetables pulls out. He puts it on the floor because that's what they're supposed to have fruits and vegetables. All that he throws on the floor and he picks out the stuff you ain't supposed to had just like the kids just like the kids but doesn't create something of a mess in your house yeah. It has a way of putting it. Just, the other day we heard a noise down the cellar I have a deep freeze. So he got in my deep freeze and what was banned at doing sitting on the floor eating a peanut Sundae Cup. Oh, my goodness. Why do you keep him? Why Because number one I went to school for. Wildlife Management. I simply adore I loved raccoons ever since a little girl I just loved him I. Think they're wonderful and I wouldn't trade bandit for a million dollars and that is no joke. You have neighbors definitely what are they think if you're keeping a pet them you don't let them out then I let him in my yard Oh. Okay. Full run my ivy chain link fence yard, and he swims in the pool with with my kids swims to Oh. Yeah. Dive off the back. And as soon as he gets out of the pool, my colleague will not let him anywhere out of the yard until she holds him down with the Paul Anton drives them. What are you GONNA do in Bantu gets it and brings back a family he will never get out I see he's never left alone. You wouldn't dare now leave him alone now. Good luck with the Diet okay. Okay Ms Clinton. All right. Bye Bye. From. Two thousand that was Mary Lou speaking with pepper. Click. About her pet raccoon bandit. As you just learned sometimes pasts become pets but this next story shows that sometimes it's our pets that become the pests in one thousand nine, hundred guest host. Jeff Collins spoke with Cecile saint-pierre of Matt. Wa. Ontario about her cat Pepsi and his habit of stealing clothes, MS, Pierre where where is peppy now? Is He under house arrest? He's under house arrest right now they're grounded. Too, many things like. Nearby Ya. He's in the living room I can see him from the hallway here. He's all he's on his back there in his he's covering his face with his paw actually. He's a shame. He's he's taking his incarceration. Well, I think though what is giving? Give you a sample of what he's brought back Oh my God he's brought cow he's brought tea towels. He's brought Long Johns. He's brought t shirts. He's brought line king jogging suit brought address. Just. got a whole. Well, my basket is all full and then uh last week one lady heard about it. It was mostly all her stuff. But that was a week ago. Now, my basket full this morning when I got up there there was three or four articles again in the yard. And the ladies had come to pick up close last week. It was so funny. She she said that she was going to start hanging dirty clothes on the line. So he can cart this here so I can do the laundry. You wash anything. He brings wash everything. Well, yes. Because it's by the time he he drags it where ever he stealing and brings it only gets all dirty again. So I wash it and dry it and folded and put it in the basket. Any suggestions from vets perhaps about how you can. Take peppy away from this habit. Well actually for the life and the I don't know what possesses him to to do things and it was so funny a few weeks ago. My granddaughter was down and my daughter forgot to bring dogging. And I don't WanNa encourage him to steal. But just for the heck of it, I said to him that if you're going to steal anything tonight there, bring us jogging pants that are gonNA fit Kerry. Well, don't we get up in the morning there was a pair jogging Pants Panther that Fitr you're kidding no, it was just like your understood like I don't know if he's possessed Sir I really don't know. You could have a real problem. I everybody's been telling me my God you're going to have to get rid of that cat. You're going to have to get rid of that. Yeah. Well, I said Jesus I like him. It's not like I I've trained him to do this. And like I. Really Don't want anybody to hurt him because he's such a mellow cap like in and he's all ended. This is what I don't understand it. He's always in slow motion never rush to go anywhere or do anything read and by that I just can't imagine how he is at nighttime. Pure, good luck to both you and peppy. Thank you very much. bye-bye by from nineteen ninety eight guest host. Jeff. Collins. Speaking Cecile saint-pierre about the adventures of her pet. Peppy. The neighborhood cat burglar. You're listening to jazz. It happened the archive edition tonight steam tests. By now, you've hopefully come to terms with the fact that squirrels are on their way to ruling the world. But long after we're gone and our bushy tailed overlords, they're gone only one past will remain cockroaches will outlast us all they've been around since the time of the dinosaurs they can live almost a month without food that can hold their breath for up to forty minutes. The facts speak for themselves but if you need more convincing if you want to hear just how diabolical these creatures can be than brace yourself and try to listen to Blake Collins. McGee's cautionary tale. In Two Thousand Eighteen Carol spoke with Mr Collins McGee about a cockroach that crawled into his year. Like how did this cockroach get into your ear? Though. I was asleep and the middle of the night and I felt something crawl all over my face and I was like Oh my God it's another cockroach I mean because this happens quite often. At the apartment comes like and so I swatted the Roach off and then it's like I guess I swat it it it like jumped on my pillow inching back on my face and at that point when I tried to swat it again Iran and it just went straight into my here. Yikes. They crawled right into the ear passage it did it crawled Ryan in. August like panicking and like shaking my head like a memory problem, I don't know what to do. So I'm like trying to get out and then like. Tonight Year in grab it and you know I can feel it for ruling like deeper and deeper inside and I've just panicking because I cannot get it out. I, what did it feel like to have the cockroach in your ear it the only way I can really describe it like I'm almost shoving and q tip all the way inside of my head and I couldn't stop it and like I could feel it moving and the five rations from like whereas body was like trans like get out it was just horrifying you could actually hear it. I could hear it. Yeah. I could hear the words. I can feel the leg than here the legs scratching on my hair canal. Is. Terrible and people listening to this they're going to have nightmares what happened at the hospital what did the doctor say about it? It was funny because. I was panicking little roach in my ear Oh my God. My here, I don't think beliefs me at first but like when I was in front of my ear, they were like, okay yes, there's overarching your we're going to have to get it out. So they like me lay on my side and they've poured like gnome agent called Lyda Canaanite year and I can start feeling it like checking really fast and like I heard a squeal I don't know if that was your pressure or whatever. But. Traumatic anyway, you hardly wrote screensaver make a squealing sound. It felt more like kicking vibrations but there was like a little. Like air being released or like squeal found, he'll just terrible and so I just felt and hers Roach dying part of my ear. What did they do with the Dead Roach was now in your ear So when they went to pull it out, they pulled out the egg that the road chat late in my ear the fortunately. There was an egg inside of my Eric Disgusting Horrible. I was having babies in your ear. It was having babies a lot of my the show Hatton broke yet like the case on hadn't broke but thank God because there's forty up to forty roaches each egg. Is Forces. Stating. But but yet they say pulled the plug out. Thank God but the roach unfortunately, it was too far inside of my head. So I had to boil without naturally over the next week I was pulling out works, legs and wings, and eventually the body came out so was pretty static by can't imagine anyone having to go through this. All right. Well, thanks for telling us the story I think. And can you say Moscow by? From twenty eighteen, that was Carol speaking with Blake Coen's McGee about a cockroach that took up residence in his ear. Some pasts like cockroaches just won't quit. If you've ever had to deal with a roach infestation, you know how unrelenting they can be. But if there's anything more persistent in keen to get in your ear, it's a radio producer in hot pursuit of a hot story. Back in two thousand, eighteen, as it happens heard about an unbelievable story involving someone known only as the Seagull Pepperoni guy after days of pestering the mysterious character with phone calls Carol finally got him on the line. Here's former host Jeff Douglas with the setup all week listeners have been writing in pain. They've got the perfect story for us. They say you gotTa Call Up Nick Burchill you know the seagull, Pepperoni guy the guy was banned from staying at the Empress Hotel Victoria BC because a seagulls pepperoni but now he's not banned. And to those listeners I say. We have tried trust me. First thing Monday morning, we called Nick Burchill Seagull Pepperoni guy asked him to come on the program to talk about Seagulls Pepperoni and forgiveness but he's been shunning the spotlight since his odd story went viral he would not talk to us about Pepperoni nor seagulls. Until now, we reach nick virtual in Dartmouth Nova Scotia. All right let's go to the Empress Hotel Victoria V. C. Seventeen years ago and the story about what happened to you. When you went back to your hotel room where he had left a whole bunch of brothers Pepperoni by an open window what did you find when you got back? Not, was I expected? I, I put the PEPPERONI. Ah, just to keep it. Cool. It wasn't a fridge in my room and I was gone for a number of hours like probably four or five hours. I opened the door. I. Was Tired. I wasn't really paying too much attention. I just kind of walked into the room. And shut the door behind me it was just sort of an. Of everything in the room. There were a lot of goals they'd come through a very small opening in the window. In your room at that point, my guess would be somewhere between twenty and forty. And what were they doing? They'd been eating brothers TNT. pepperoni. I'm specific with the TNT because it's hot. They'd been eating that for five hours and you can imagine what the room looked like. No I can't imagine what what did the room look like they were carrying on their life processes in there for five hours. So there were feathers there was gonNA everything. The shocking thing for me was the saliva I didn't know that Segel's drooled this slime was covering everything and they were whipping up into the air and it was they were flying around. It was like a tornado they were knocking things down the curtains lamps everything in the room was covered with feathers or one form of excretion or another it was not pretty and the smell was pretty overwhelming. Decide you should take this on and you're like, why didn't you immediately call for hotel security or something to deal with it to tell you the truth I thought that I could handle it I opened the remainder of the windows and most of them left immediately. I had problems with a couple, a few of them were left and so tell us how you managed to lose your shoe. Well I I. Lost My temper and then I lost my shoe I threw a shoe at one that was kind of bouncing around the window sill both Siegel and this you went out the window. What I didn't know. They have this great thing in the afternoon called high tea at the empress. Apparently, there was a line of tourists directly below my front facing window. Apparently, I struck one of them with the shoe. You're. But it wasn't the end of your story because you you were there at the hotel to start a new job and you had to get ready to go you how did you finally get this cleaned up and get your shoe back? Yes. So I was trying to make a good impression during all of this and I'd only with my company for three months. And I only have one pair of shoes I had to go to dinner. They were kind of a light brown leather shoe. I went out I, retrieve my shoe, and I went back to my room. Now, the she would become dirty fallen into the garden down there. So I cleaned it off with some water but now I had one dark shoe and one light shoe one of the shoes was wet. In. Retrospect I should've just got the other shoe wet, but I tried to dry the wet shoe using the little hairdryer and the phone rang I. went into the next room to answer the phone when it was in there, the power went act. Realize that the hairdryer had vibrated free the shoe and falling into the sink full of water and I don't know how much of the hotels power knocked out. But yeah, at that point sitting there with all that the message from the SEAGULLS. No. Power I realized I needed help cleaning person arrived. How did she respond when she came to the room? It was just kind of a look of shock. Really. She was really underprepared for what she saw. I didn't even know what to tell her and when I came back the empress, it moved me to a different much smaller room and he didn't get to go back to the hotel for seventeen years because you were banished you were banned from the hotel from this for all those years. That's right. We were hosting the event that was taking place at the hotel and I. Had a bunch of customers there. So I think that's probably why I didn't get turfed immediately and you request to return to the hotel drafted a letter you hotel across the street you sent them a letter. Tell us what you ask the hotel I just explained to them I would like to either have a pardon or at least have my seventeen years considered as time served. and. Two days later I was at dinner and I got a phone call and it was the It was Ryan the manager that I've been speaking with the empress and he was laughing and he said that they reviewed my request and that I was no longer banned from the from the upper Mi- ban had been lifted. I was actually just at a restaurant up the street from the empress when I got the call. So immediately went down, I give them a peace offering of a pound of brothers, TNT pepperoni. All right, Nick. Great to. have story versus mouth. It's been as it travels around the world. Thank you, Carol. Nice. Talking to you. Bye Bye bye. Bye from twenty thousand eighteen. That was Carol speaking with Nick. Burchill Aka the seagull. Guy. We. Now know that fragrant hot and spicy pepperoni will make a seagull drool and you probably already knew that basically any other food item will make the birds screech uncontrollably. But did you know that as it happens listeners can also screech uncontrollably in two thousand nineteen we asked you to send us your best Segal Calls Impressions, and like a goal to a pepperoni stick, you flocked to talk back with a flurry of squeaks and squawks here are some of the standard calls to take us out tonight. Here's my best. Okay, here goes. So. Sure we go. My my my my my night, my three to one. I Apologize. Now, you s for it. Matt. How thinking. And that brings us to the end of this episode of as it happened the archive addition. The. Show was produced by John McGill and techniques in rental gonzalves with help from me. Robyn Smyth and Keith Hart in Radio Archives. You'll find links to this show and all the other episodes of as it happened on our website CBC dot ca slash aih join us for another archive edition one week from now right after as it happens I'm Chris how. Good night. For more CBC podcasts go to CBC DOT CA slash. PODCASTS.

Carol SEAGULLS Nick Burchill Chris Hayden t Mary Lou Ontario roach Jeff Collins Ms Clinton CBC Mr Collins McGee Ryan Cecile saint-pierre cyberattack Matt emmy
The Chaplet of St. Michael the Archangel  Discerning Hearts Podcast

Discerning Hearts - Catholic Podcasts

14:21 min | 9 months ago

The Chaplet of St. Michael the Archangel Discerning Hearts Podcast

"God come to my systems. Oh Lord, make haste to help me Lori be to the father the son into the Holy Spirit as it was in the beginning is now and ever shelby world without end amen. By the intercession of Saint Michael and the celestial choir of Seraphim. The Lord, make us worthy to burn with the fire of perfect. Charity. Our Father Martin Heaven Hallowed Be Thy. Kingdom. Come by. We'll be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us the state our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses. As we forgive those who trespass against us. and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen. Hail Mary Lou Grace to Lord with the. Blessed. Are Amongst women and blessed is the fruit of. Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God pray for US senators. Now at the our our death Amen Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the. Blessed I download. And blessed is the fruit die Wu Jesus. Holy. Mary Mother of. God. Pray for US sinners now and at the hour of our death amen. Hail. Mary. Full of grace. The Lord is with the. Blast. Blessed. Is the fruit of wound Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God. Pray for US sinners now in the hour of our death. By. The intercession at Saint Michel Celestial Choir. Terrible. With the Lord vouchsafed to grant us grace leave the ways of wickedness to run in the paths of Christian perfection. An. Our Father who Martin Heaven, how dining, backing them come they will be done on earth as it is. Give us stay our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil, Amen Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the lesson. And blessed is the fruit of. Jesus, Holy Mary. Mother of God. Pray for US sinners. Now in the hour of our death eight-man Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with be blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit I Jesus. Only Mary Mother of God pray for us centers now and at the hour of our death. Hail Mary full of Grace Delores with being. Blessed I found amongst women and blessed is the fruit I will Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God. Pray for US sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. By the intercession of Saint, Michael Celestial, choir of the thrones. With the Lord infused into our hearts, a true and sincere spirit of humility. I'm an. Our Father who, Martin? Heaven. How would be name Die Kingdom come by will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass upon us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from. evil. Amen. Hail Mary full of grace the Lord. BLESSED ARE DIAMONDS And blessed is the fruit. Jesus. Holy Mary Mother of God. Pray for US sinners now, and at the hour of our death Amen Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the blessed art amongst women and blessed is the fruit with I won't Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us centers now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Hail Mary. Full of grace. The Lord is with be blessed are among sermon and blessed is the fruit of the womb. Jesus. Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us centers now and at the hour of our death amen. By the intercession of seeing Michael and the celestial choir of Dominion's middle-order, give us craze to govern our senses and subdue are really passions. Our Father who Martin Heaven How would be dining? By kingdom come I. will be done on Earth as it is in having. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil a man. Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the blessed are amongst women and blessed is the fruit of the womb Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God pray for a centers. Now in at the hour of our death Amen Hail, Mary full of grace the Lord is with be. Blessed Dom de and blessed is the fruit of. Jesus. Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with the blessed are amongst women and blessed is the fruit with whom Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death amen. By the intercession of Saint. Michael in the celestial choir powers. May The Lord vouchsafed to protect our souls against the snares temptations of the devil? Our Father who Martin Heaven Hallowed be thy name. Kingdom come by will be done on earth as it is in. Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as way. Forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen. Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the blessed Artha amongst women and blessed is the fruit with I wound Jesus Holy. Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death even. Hail Mary will grace the Lord is with. Less at our monks streaming and blessed is the fruit of won't Jesus Holy Mary, Mother of God pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death, Amen Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the blessed are amongst women and blessed is the fruit of the womb. Jesus. Holy. Mary Mother of God. Pray for US senators now at the hour of our death amen. By the intercession of Saint, Michael on the celestial choir virtues. The Lord preserve us from evil and suffering not to fall into temptation I'm an. Our Father who Martin Heaven, hallowed be thy name they kingdom come. THY will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from. evil. Amen Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the blessed are amongst women and blessed is. The fruit with whom Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us centers now and at the hour of our death Amen Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the blessed I amongst women and blessed is the fruit of the womb Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us centers now at the hour of our death Amen Hail, Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the. Blessed are amongst women and blessed is the fruit of the womb Jesus holy. Mary Mother of God pray for us centers now and at the our our death. Amen. By. The intercession of Saint, Michael Celestial Choir of principles. May? God fill our sold to the true spirit of obedience. I'm an. Our Father who Martin Heaven Hallowed be. Thy Name. Kingdom come die will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from Evil Amen. Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with be. Blessed download. And blessed is the fruit from die. Womb Jesus, Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us centers now at the of our death. Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with be. Blessed are down. And blessed is the fruit of. Jesus Holy Mary, Mother of God pray for us centers now in at the our our death. Amen. Hail Mary, full of grace the Lord has. Blessed Art. And blessed us the food. Jesus holy. Mary Mother of God pray for us. Center is now in at the hour of our death amen. By the intercession of Saint Michael and the celestial choir of archangels. With the Lord, give us perseverance and faith and in all good works in order that we gain the glory of Paradise. Our Father Martin. How would it be? Backing? Die will be done on earth as it is. Give us to stand our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us in lead us not into temptation but deliverance from even. Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the lassiter. valmont. And blessed is the fruit of. Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death Amen, hail, Mary full of grace the Lord would be less balanced. And blessed is the fruit. Jesus. painfreelifecenters now. Full of grace, the Lord. Blessed Dominic. And blessed is the fruit. Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us centers now and at the hour of our death. Amen. By the intercession of Saint Michael Celestial Choir of angels with the Lord Grandparents to be protected by them in this mortal life and conducted hereafter tweet return gory on. Our Father who margin heaven how would be name by kingdom come by will be done on earth as it is in heaven? Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliverance from Evil A. Hail Mary Lou. With be. Blessed are among streaming. Blessed is. Fedral. Jesus Holy Mary. Mother of God pray for us centers now and at the hour of our death amen. Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the. Blessed are found lungs to women and blessed is the fruit womb Jesus Holy Mary, Mother of God pray for sinners now, and at the hour of our death. Amen Hail Mary full grace. The Lord is with the blessed art thou. -mongst women and blessed is the Fruit Thi- womb Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God pray for centers now in at the hour of our death. Amen. Foreseen Michael, our father in heaven how would we die name? Kingdom come will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen Forcing Gabriel our father, who Martin Heaven Hallowed be. Thy Name. Kingdom come by will be done on earth does. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from. Amen Force in Rayfield our father who marched heaven hallowed be thy name kingdom come by will be done under as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses. Forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil a man. For Our Guardian Angel our father. Morrison Evan. How would be named by kingdom come die will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil a man. Warriors print saint, Michel Chief, and commander of the heavenly hosts guardian of souls, vanquishers rebel spirits servant in the House of the divine king and our admirable conductor. Who does shine with excellence and superhuman virtue vow shaved deliver us from all evil who turned to the with confidence and enable us by gracious protection to serve God more and more faithfully every day. Pray for US Laureus Michael, Prince of the Church of Jesus Christ. That we may be made worthy of his promises. Almighty in ever lasting GOP who by a prodigy of goodness and merciful desire for the salvation of all men. Asked appointed the most glorious archangel same. CLEMSON ventures. Make US worthy. To be delivered from all enemies none of them may harass us at the hour of death but that we may be conducted by him into the Aug presence of the Divine Majesty. This beg to the merits of Jesus Christ our Lord. In, the name of the father and of the son the Holy Spirit.

Mary Mother Mary Martin Heaven Jesus Holy Mary Jesus Holy Mary Mary Lou Grace A. Hail Mary Lou Jesus Michael Holy Spirit US Grace Delores Saint Michael Saint Michel Celestial Choir Michael Celestial Choir of pri Church of Jesus Christ Saint Michael Celestial Choir Michael Celestial Lori us.
'A local solution to a global pandemic:' How COVID-19 lit the spark for a new program that connects rural Ontarians to rapid-response health care

White Coat, Black Art

28:11 min | 10 months ago

'A local solution to a global pandemic:' How COVID-19 lit the spark for a new program that connects rural Ontarians to rapid-response health care

"I'm Keith MacArthur unlocking bryson's brain is a podcast about my son I am. The rare disease that keeps him from walking or talking Bryson's perfect. His life is really hard and our families search for a cure. Oh my gosh. Maybe science is ready for this. It's part memoir part medical mystery. We can do just about anything modifying DNA Heart in my throat cure his controversial unlocking braces brain subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Brian Goldman. Welcome to a new season of white coat black art. The show about medicine from all sides of the Gurney and all of cove nineteen. Is if any of US can forget. The pandemic has changed our lives in so many ways. It's also changed healthcare. We've heard a lot about restricted hospital visiting delays in surgery and cancer treatment outbreaks and Long-term Care? But what you haven't heard much about how the healthcare system is adapting in surprisingly positive ways. What some might call silver linings in an awful situation. This season while giving you the latest on the virus will also take you to places where the pandemic is reshaping healthcare for the better. Beginning with today's show. The Mask. In July packed a good supply of PPA and drove to Renfrew County in rural Ontario to meet an innovative group of healthcare providers who seized an opportunity when the pandemic hit. Their mission. Find new more efficient ways to serve a community that has far too few family doctors and a whole lot of territory to. And I got to ride along. You mentioned that we're on a dirt road We're on the edge of Elgon Park how how remote Is this part of of Canada, this part of Northern Ontario. We're pretty remote. Rural and we have pockets of of towns, spreads, Renfrew County, but. Everybody that I see is. Living in the country in some shape somewhere whether it be farmer. All fishing lodge that's where we're heading to now It's very remote and it makes it really hard for folks that get access to Karen. That's community paramedic Matt Crochet. Community. Para medicine is a fairly new model of healthcare that teams up paramedics with family doctors in public health in underserved areas like renfrew. Okay. So we're GONNA go see Mary Lou, who is an elderly lady who lives in an old hunt camp, which is pretty neat. You'll see in a secular that this was this goes back fifty sixty or more year that still does regular shift says an emergency first responder. But Community Para medicine is a big part of his job description which means house calls on patients like Mary Lou. Her husband died she lives by herself. You know she's got some health issues that need close monitoring. So I today I need to do some blood work for just to see where she's at so that we can report back to her in college. So aside from talking to her. I'll be a fly on the wall. Okay. That's been a community paramedic for five years. So that part is not new but community para medicine is central to a much bigger program launched here during the pandemic. It's called V. Tack which stands for Virtual Triage Assessment Center. v Tack Promises Residents of Renfrew County and South Elgon Cohen who don't have or can't reach their family doctor twenty, four, seven access to healthcare that includes testing for covid nineteen. The program was started out of necessity as the coronavirus hit hard. But as you'll hear, it's been so successful the people who started it, see it as a kind of silver lining to the pandemic. None more. So than one of V, tax, principal architects and biggest boosters I, want you to say, hi, my name is and tell me what you do and how long you've been doing it. Michael the chief for the county renfrew paramedic service. Chief for fifteen years and a paramedic for. Before we got into how tax works. Nolan. Told me why virtual assessment center is needed in this part? Of Ontario. And why community paramedics like Matt are uniquely positioned to play a pivotal role in a place like renfrew Just. Annoyed. If at times our voices sound muffled, it's because we're wearing masks and stink two meters apart to stay safe. So the base population ran for county about one hundred, thousand people We are somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty thousand or twenty percent of the population not having a primary care doctor. It's coupled with the fact that in many other parts of Canada people rely upon having an urgent care clinic having a walk in clinic having the ability to go somewhere other than the emergency department to take care of the day to day health issues that they should be on top of it. It's difficult. You can't just get on a bus because there are no buses in Renfrew County. There is no public transportation, and if you don't have a car and you happen to live outside of town, your options are very limited to be able to either get ahead of a medical problem or to be able to react to something that's happening in your life. So somebody better be able to do house calls somebody better be able to do house calls and the people that we're serving. Should also know when to ask for help. They ask for help but not by calling nine one one. That's what people in most parts of Canada would do. There are no walk in clinics and they don't have a GP. Instead people in Renfrew call a toll free number. Good Morning. Thank you for calling the Renfrew County Virtual Triage Assessments Center. My name is Sandra. Love your first named Sandra and trained medical receptionist register patients who call. Somewhat Cova testing which Sandra helps arrange others need help with issues not related to the corona virus. Right. Well, I can arrange a phone call with one of our Physicians Lincoln? Assess you and. The receptionist books and appointment with a doctor or a nurse practitioner. Since, the pandemic many of these visits are virtual, which is how beach at got its name. If the patient is ill enough to need a housecall the doctor sends in a community paramedic Matt crew. I tried. To. Mary. Mary Lou pleased. To meet you on steady. Just interested. Sit. Pretty good during this housecall Matt Chats with Mary Lou checking vital signs if need be he can do blood tests and you see G and even an ultrasound. I've been watching TV and it just makes me so sad. The people are not kick in this series. If they sound friendly. It's because he visited Mary Lou at least a dozen times in the past two years. She seems thrilled to have visitor. To your blood pressure. Off. All right. Your blood pressure, we're GONNA do a couple of them. So. You being okay. No falls no near close close calls going up. Excellent anybody visiting these days. At the window, the window out here istrict. Aren't you? Yes, I am. So tell me what kinds of stuff they do for you for me Oh my God well. Heart monitoring and. Taking reliable. How surprised were you by some of the things that they're able to do fantastic matt actually suggested to lead that they were able to come and take my blood ear instead of going to rainbow through the winter which was hard for me because of ice. To get over to the Howson. Travel. You, have a family dog. No my oncologist is in on Ottawa. I haven't seen her since last October, but she's been doing phone calls for me. Instead of be having to gripe all the way to Artois. What kind of cancer do you have? Multiple Myeloma. You're doing. Okay with that. So. So, who so you said, you don't have a GP you don't have a family doc who looks after that. I, guess if I need help. Is here or I have to go to emerge which I did when I had. This reaction, last year and. Just, whoever is on call? There has been a few doctors. So, how much do you think seeing people like Matt paramedics like Matt here in your home is helping keeping you out of the emergency department. You have no idea how much I appreciate it. I really really knock just trying to make Matfield. Good. But. It's true. It is so true. And especially now, with this virus I, don't WanNa to go where there's other people. And especially in the hospital. You know so no, this is special to me. I imagine that that if you've got covert, you could get really sick. I would Sylvia. Trying to be careful. Trying to be careful about not getting or spreading covert nineteen is how and why Batak got the green light. Here's renfrew paramedic chief Mike Nolan. Would this have happened without Cova? Certainly. Wouldn't have happened as quickly. As. Completely or as effortlessly and and I don't say that in a way to minimize the amount of effort that it's taken to be able to provide twenty four, seven access to everybody in Renfrew County. But we were able to focus our efforts in a meaningful way on providing a local solution to a global pandemic we run. Sixteen. Monthly clinics, Renfrew County for people who don't have access to primary care physician. Or just want to check in with a community paramedic. So those clinics were our opportunity to reach out to a known population with needs that were being unmet and provide them not only a social experience, but also provide them the reassurance to take care of themselves. When Kobe hit, we lost that everyone was told to stay at home. That immediately required us to pivot and start doing immediate phone check INS. For, those folks. But also to make sure that issues of social isolation issues of access to prescription renewals access to good advice knowing that everybody seemed to have an opinion in their early days as to what what was was not safe or even real. So tell me how this works. So v Tack works on the Front end by having one eight, hundred number twenty, four hours a day seven days a week answered by a medical receptionist and that medical receptionist does basic triage to understand the reason for your call and to make sure that your need is most appropriately served Brian, primary care physician or by community permanent and obvious example would be somebody who calls and can't breathe can't finish a sentence with having to take a big deep breath. The medical receptionist is listening and watching for those cues and his asking some basic questions while they're registering you. So we do an online registration and an online scheduling. To. Make sure that primary care physician calls you back in some cases within minutes occasionally with an hour but always same day and if they're not able to resolve. The issues over the phone because for example, they can't see you. We've made available of virtual a video option so that if it's a rash, you're concerned about that would otherwise maybe take you to the emergency department. We can turn on a video, your phone or your computer, and have a look at that. If, we need to listen to your lungs if we need to take a sample of your blood, if we need to have someone do a more complete in-person person clinical assessment that community paramedics notified, and the community product will as well come out the same day to your own home put his death chest perhaps an ultrasound on your belly draw the blood that's necessary and get it off to the lab so that that physician can follow up with you and set a treatment plan. While, you get to stay in your own home to accomplish all of that during pandemic of all times meant paramedics, family doctors, hospitals, and public health had to get on the same page and fast. Only. You only case you realize impersonal my shoulder there is growing Goldman he's. Doing a piece of the new White, count? Off. Season and. He's joining us today Dr Jonathan Fit. Simon is chief of medicine at aren't prior regional health and the physician lead for V tack that's him quarterbacking the daily briefing. They got it up and running in just twelve days. Their goal was to treat as many patients as possible where they live and avoid unnecessary trips to the ER during covid nineteen. A huge challenge in a place as sparsely populated as renfrew were many. Don't have family doctor. So we realized that a single. Assessment Center or Testing Center for all geography all counts he just wasn't going to work just because of the logistics and so we wanted to protect our emergency departments protect on nine, one one paramedics but still gave every resident of the county, the opportunity to access assessment testing for for concerns around nineteen. So, we decided to do it virtually we started with a A telephone number, a single freephone number that any resident of the county can cool and the way we did that initially was by cooperating with community paramedics. I did a ride along with a paramedic Matt. Crochet, we visited a couple of places. In effect, the the community paramedic becomes the eyes and ears of the family doctor like you. Exactly and let's be honest paramedics. You know as we already said it doing this sort of thing every day. So in many scenarios, paramedic can. Make assessments, themselves and take decisions. The difference with vitae is now a process where they can immediately get back in touch with the physician. There's a there's an incredible synergy between community paramedics and family physicians, and I think we already knew that we just hadn't really had the opportunity to fully exploited. The silver lining to the cloud of. The COVID. Nineteen pandemic. Has. been that we've been able to exploit that and we've been able to develop that and it really has. Given us the opportunity to. To prove what we already knew and to make the most of it you know I. mentioned that people had genuine fears and concerns about going to emergency departments when they were ill will go into their family physician's office and what I feel that the tax service has done is alleviate that risk we have shown that through a service like this people do not have to suffer at home in silence. I'm Keith MacArthur unlocking bryson's brain is a podcast about my son. The rare disease that keeps him from walking or talking embracing perfect. His his life is really hard and our families search for a cure. Oh my gosh. Maybe science is ready for this. It's part memoir part medical mystery. We can do just about anything modifying DNA Heart in my throat cure is controversial unlocking bryson's brain subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Hi I'm Dr Brian Goldman. If you haven't heard my new podcast, the dose, this is the perfect time to subscribe each week we answer your most pressing health related questions, and right now we know you're grappling with covid nineteen. On the dose. We bring in top experts to answer your questions about the corona virus and post some of our own get the latest evidence in a way that's easy to understand by subscribing to the dose. It's your guide to getting through this difficult time. You can find the dose wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr Brian. Golden. This white coat black art. This week I'm in Renfrew County in rural Ontario to check out a healthcare program created during the pandemic. Provides virtual care and even house calls for patients don't have her can't reach their GPA. Checked Colleges she called me. On all my goodness. Wants to be itching to junior Matt Crochet the community paramedic cares for Mary lose physical health is getting while being the eyes and ears of doctors like on college. Was Even the way she put her, but there's also a silver lining, for Mary, Lou Matt's visited her at least a dozen times when like many older isolated people she's had few visitors. The whole hand. Part of. All. These people telling you. He's also looking out for her mental health. Tell you. I went fishing lake. No I did you. Like, it was fun. It was fun I took my I took my son openly we. Lower. Pine. Yeah, but yeah you gave me a good tip their. Paramedics on the ground of vital. But. There's a whole raft of healthcare people working in cooperation to fill those gaps created by geography, the shortage of family Docs and COVID nineteen. Something Dr John Fitz Simon made clear when we talked. Well, if you can think of a situation where every component of community health care is represented around one table, then you have described to be tech. So we have leaders from mental health services. We have the director of Children's mental health. It's on the leadership group. We have representatives from hospitals, hospital physician emergency department physician and chief of Emerge Hospital nursing representatives, and we've also had homecare community. Care Long Term Care Community Pharmacy. Hope I've missed anyone off the list but you get the idea I know you've been pouring over figures since v TAC began what are the results been so far? So this weekend. I'm as we approach the end of August. Mock five months of Vita. And we're about to pass the ten thousand appointments. Mall. So That's ten thousand appointments with a family physician. We've already just past the ten thousand mark of swabs completed by paramedics at dry through sites, and we've also had over thirty five hundred paramedic home visits. These numbers are huge ten thousand appointments with a family physician. That's ten thousand times that somebody didn't have an option for addressing the. Concern. But because of attack they did have that option. How much did this program cost I want to know if there's a cost or savings benefit in the long run? Have you made that calculation? You know the politicians unser was it's complicated but I want to give you a simple. The cost of this V. Tax System works out at less than five dollars per person per resident Renfrew County. Just say that again, that's less than five books person per. To give that safety net and that ability to to speak to a family physician. When I say very mind, there is no alternative Renfrew County tens of thousands of people don't have a family doctor there is no walk in centre. There is no urgent care clinic. And for five bucks per person per month, we can provide that safety net. And there is so many studies that show the cost of not having a family doctor on overall healthcare system. Even if you're just looking at the money, you're just being counting it runs into hundreds and hundreds of dollars per year. And not of course, does not reflect the personal. Impact it has on peoples lives when they have chronic disease poorly managed chronic disease, the complications of chronic disease, all of which can be. Reduced. By giving people good access to family physician and you know sometimes the argument is well, you're talking about a long-term savings. What I'm saying is not know both we can make savings every day by avoiding emergency room attendants, hospital admissions, and we can avoid simple issues getting worse. V Tech is a pilot project with temporary funding put in place during cove nineteen. So, what happens when the pandemic begins to wane? Opinion as a family physician. I desperately hope it will not be removed. I'm realistic. The funding that we have to to run this service comes from provincial government because we are a Corwin nineteen assessment center. So there is a risk that at some point that definition and that funding tap could be turned off I desperately hope it won't be I know the residents of renfrew, county Deserve to have this system remained in place but I actually think that this could be a way forward for many. Remote rural and indigenous communities that. Have Difficulty Accessing Primary Care Mike Nolan the director of emergency services in renfrew and champion of community pair of. Medicine. says. The public likes the idea of making V tack permanent. We've had many patients save for the first time in their lives. They've had a family doctor. The feel somebody cares about them. They feel like the community has their back. The hospitals have been exceptionally appreciative because we've taken a slice of the population that in regular times would truly be better served in primary care than in the emergency room. We've seen up to forty to sixty percent reductions in emergency department presentations. So why aren't we doing with everywhere? I. Think that's that's the Golden. Question I. Think that the reason we haven't done this is that as healthcare providers I think that we've coveted the familiar. We've really clung to what we thought was either the best or the most comfortable. Or what we thought was the right thing to do. We've seen through our experience in the tax and by really integrating the community paramedics with primary care that we can do better and I often hear people talk about when are we going to get back to normal? And normal as it pertains to healthcare to me is a step backwards I. Think we need to take these lessons that we've learned in some ways. These gifts that we've been given by putting down our assumptions and protecting the status quo and finding these opportunities to say who wouldn't want to be able to call their family doctor or a family doctor and get answers the same day who wouldn't want to have a community paramedic come do a full clinical assessment, treat you in your own home and allow you to stay there if you can. We can try here. We'll probably got the van just whether or not there's not blood. To give straight? To. Look. Back at the fishing lodge on the edge of Al Franken. Park Mattis Helping Mary Lou stay in her own home. Doctors may be hard to come by, but paramedics like Matt or helping patients like Mary Lou keep from falling through the cracks. All right. We want Alleluia. Push on that Yup. Good Stop. We. Community paramedics are playing an expanded role in healthcare in other parts of Ontario, as well as Nova Scotia Alberta and elsewhere. But here in renfrew as chief paramedic Mike, Nolan says they've managed to take that model and find a local solution when the global pandemic hit. All right. Is there anything else I? Don't see some that. So we'll sign this blood work in and hopefully everything will be on the level of moving forward. That's our program this week, but we're not done with Renfrew County. On an upcoming show, we're going to explore your way community paramedics are filling in some gaps in our healthcare system. I also got to ride along with the paramedic named Matt Roussell who's being trained to do. Palliative Care House calls the two thousand eighteen survey found that a lack of palliative care means most Canadians who wished to die at home end up in hospital. Matt Roussell and his colleagues are changing that we look at you know obviously what was wrong with them? What kind of pain there in some people earn pain are so a lot of times it'll be having to get that pain under control before we can figure out the proper plan on them at home. I GUESS WE WANNA. Try and keep them at home safely we can family can do that as well as it's helped them to To stay at home, some families can't handle that kind of. Responsibility I don't think anybody really wants to die in a hospital. These people are at a point in their life. Where they know the end is coming and. They feel like you're losing control and if you can put that control back in their hands, determining how they want to die where they WANNA die. I think that's the best outcome for the patient and the family as well. If you have thoughts on community paramedics, the beach program and the other ways. Kobe nineteen is reshaping healthcare email us at white coat at CBC DOT CA. Twitter night shift MD, and the show is at CBC White Coat Brosseau on facebook. If you WANNA listen to our program live or on demand anytime. Make sure you download the CBC listen APP. You can also get the show as podcast at itunes or wherever you find your podcast. While you're there, you can also subscribe to the dose, the weekly podcast where I talked to an expert who answers your most pressing health questions. This week show was produced by senior producer Donnie Dingwall with help from Jeff goods, Sujata Berry digital producer Rupa writer Jonathan, or and sound technician Mac Cameron. That's medicine for my side of the Gurney. I'm Brian Goldman we're in this together. See you next week. For more CBC PODCASTS, Goto CBC DOT CA, slash podcasts.

Renfrew County Lou Matt Mary Lou renfrew family physician Dr Brian Goldman Mike Nolan Ontario Canada bryson white coat Matt Crochet Renfrew County Virtual Triage Keith MacArthur Dr John Fitz Simon US
Programmed to Kill Charlie Brandt Pt. 2

Serial Killers

37:07 min | 11 months ago

Programmed to Kill Charlie Brandt Pt. 2

"To the graphic nature of this killer's crimes listener discretion is advised this episode includes discussions of murder suicide and assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. It was a calm end of summer. Day Orlando Florida several hundred miles. South Hurricane. Ivan was battering Florida's southern coast but in Orlando it was cloudy and warm. The outside of the House on three ninety hickory drive was quiet and peaceful the pool and Jacuzzi in the backyard were still the barbecue was still warm and the smell of grilled fish from lunch that afternoon lingered in the air. Inside the House forty-seven-year-old Charlie. Brandt. Finished taking a shower. He stepped out onto the mat and dried himself off. Gave himself a quick shave and made sure his hair was presentable. Then he dressed in a clean white polo shirt and blue shorts. He walked into linen closet in the hallway and routed around to find a bedsheet. He took one last look inside the bedroom to admire his handiwork for a moment before heading into the garage. Charlie found a metal stepladder placed in the center of the garage and climbed to the talk. He threw the bedsheet over one of the rafters and tied it into a news. Then he slipped his head through made sure it was tied tightly and kicked away the ladder. Hi I'm Greg Poulsen. This is serial killers a podcast original. Every episode we dive into the minds of madness of serial killers. Today, we're concluding the puzzling story of the life and Murders Carl Charlie Brandt I'm here with my co host Vanessa Richardson. Hi everyone you can find episodes of serial killers and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream serial killers for free on spotify, just open the APP and type serial killers in the search bar. Last time we covered Charlie's childhood and his first crime killing his own mother along with the attempted murder of his father and sister. When he was just thirteen years old, we then heard how charlie lived a seemingly normal life for the next thirty years. Today will learn about Charlie's shocking murders as an adult how authorities reacted to his gruesome crimes and what dark secrets came to light when the dust settled. We've got all that coming up. Terry brant was terrified. She was worried that her husband thirty-three-year-old Charlie Brandt wasn't the mild mannered radar technician. She thought she'd married she was scared that he was a killer. In the summer of nineteen eighty, nine, Terry, reached out to Charlie's good friend Jim graves she told him that she suspected Charlie of murdering a woman whose body was found about a thousand feet from their home. Terry found Charlie coming home late that night covered in blood without a good explanation. They lived in the Florida keys and Charlie liked to go fishing often. So it was possible the blood was from cleaning his catch, but there was so much blood and no fish nervous and scared Terry us Jim for his help. Jim took the concern seriously because he knew a deep secret about Charlie Brandt something. That's possible. Even Terry didn't no Jim knew that Charlie Brandt had murdered before. It's unclear whether Charlie ever told Terry that he'd murdered his mother when he was thirteen whether his wife knew the truth or not. There was still signs that the darkness and Charlie hadn't gone away. After hearing Terry's concerns, Jim confronted his friend but Charlie denied having anything to do with the murder and ultimately Jim believed him despite knowing about the nineteen seventy, one murder Jim never saw anything that made him suspect Charlie was capable of more violence. So Jim, forgot about Terry suspicions and seemingly. So did she she remained happily married to Charlie for the next fifteen years then in the summer of two thousand, four Bo whether changed. It had already been nicknamed the Summar hurricanes in Florida by the time. A third consecutive storm Hurricane Ivan emerged from the Atlantic Ocean in September Ivan had caused over sixty deaths in the Caribbean and was now threatening the Florida coast. On September Tenth Residents of the Florida keys were ordered to evacuate the area. When he first heard the evacuation order Charlie scoffed he had faith in the house he built and thought he and his wife should be able to wait out the storm safely in their own home. But Terry was less enthused about waiting out the hurricane. So she made some calls trying to find a place to weather the storm in safety her niece Michelle Jones was one of her first calls. thirty-seven-year-old. Michelle was a TV executive working at the golf channel. She was close with her aunt. So when Terry called Michelle happily invited her and Charlie to stay at her large. Orlando home. When he heard about Michelle's invitation Charlie was suddenly more open to the idea of evacuating the truth was Charlie was slightly infatuated with his wife's niece. When he was with his friends, he referred to Michelle as Victoria's secret because of her looks Vanessa is going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode please note Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but she has done a lot of research for the show. Thanks Greg Given what we know about Charlie's infatuation with his niece. It's possible. He harbored some sexual fantasies about her according to psychologist Lewis, less injure of the John Jay College of criminal justice, violent offenders like brand or at risk of acting out when their fantasies become too powerful while almost all people experience sexual fantasies of some sort repeat homicide offenders like charlie tend to use their fantasies as motivation to commit violent crimes. It's not clear whether Terry knew about her husband's infatuation with her knees. She was just happy that Charlie was now on board with a plan to evacuate and get away from the hurricane. So on. Saturday September eleventh two, thousand, four, Charlie and Terry packed up their Subaru outback and made the six hour drive from big pine key to Orlando. They arrived in Orlando and spent the day getting settled at Michelle's House that same afternoon or the following day, Charleen? Terry went down to visit. Charlie's family in. Ormond beach. By all accounts, it was an idyllic family gathering Charlie and Terry spent time with Charlie's father Herbert and his youngest sister Jessica Charlie's oldest sister Angie couldn't make it. But the family talked on the phone together and Angie invited Charlie to visit her the next day. But Charlie said, he would be busy maybe next time Charlie told Terry they should head back to big pine key the following day Terry didn't want to go back so soon but Charlie seemed anxious to get home he argued and pushed to leave as soon as possible. When it was time to leave Charlie's family and get back to Michelle's house, they still hadn't come to an agreement before they left. Charlie pulled his father and sister in for a hug Charlie, pulled them in tight and hugged them for longer than he ever had before both his father and sister thought it was odd but didn't think too much of it. then. Charlie and Terry left the House and drove back to. Orlando Sometime after that night, Charlie changed his mind he decided they could wait to go back to big pine key Michelle's house was certainly comfortable. It had four bedrooms, a pool and a Jacuzzi. There was also Michelle herself the object of Charlie's secret obsession. But Terry was annoyed. She didn't understand why after all of the fuss her husband made about returning home as soon as possible he now wanted to stay in Orlando through the end of the weekend. The conflict continued into Monday morning when Charlie surprised his wife by telling her, he wanted to stay yet another day by this point, the hurricane long passed by the Florida keys and was now headed west approaching the Alabama coast. There was no reason to stay any longer tyrian Charlie again, but they stayed and other day. On Monday Terry called of her sisters and talked about her surprise and frustration with her husband. But beyond some odd decision making nothing seemed truly amidst with Charlie despite their arguments, the brands were enjoying their little vacation in Orlando. Terry's conversation with her sister was the last anyone heard from her charlie or Michelle for days it was radio silence. Mary Lou Jones Terry Sister. Michelle's mother tried calling the house several times on Monday night and Tuesday. September fifteenth. But each call went to the answering machine. It wasn't like Michelle not to return her mother's calls Mary. Lou was worried. On Wednesday Michele's CO worker called Mary Lou to tell her that Michelle hadn't shown up for Work Mary Lou knew something was seriously wrong. So she called one in Michele's closest friends Debbie Knight then asked her to go to the House that night and check up on Michelle. Debbie had also been struggling to reach Michelle for days and said, she'd go to Michelle's house immediately conveniently she had a spare key that Michelle had given her just in case. Debbie arrived at Michelle's house feeling deep sense of foreboding run ease deepen does she spotted Charlie and Terry Subaru outback still parked outside. There were two newspapers wrapped in plastic untouched on the lawn and a full mailbox. It was clear that no one had left the house and at least two days Debbie knew something was terribly wrong. Debbie went to the front door her hands. As she tried to unlock it but try she might the door wouldn't budge. She tried banging on the door yelling for Michelle but there was no answer beginning to panic Debbie went to the large family room window and looked through she couldn't see any signs of movement from anywhere inside the dark. House Ben, she tried going around the side of the House to a bedroom window she knocked on the glass still nothing. Debbie. Ran Back to the street hyperventilating and terrified she ran across to a neighbor's house where a man was walking out of his garage Debbie explained the dire situation. The neighbor agreed to help bringing a gun and flashlight from his garage. The neighbor tried and failed to get the door open. Debbie panicking asked him to break the front window but he decided to try the garage door in the back of the house instead. The two of them walked around to the back of the house they looked into the window in the garage door peering into the darkness. The neighbor quickly pushed Debbie back trying to shield her from what he'd seen inside, but it was too late Debbie had seen it too. There was a dead body hanging from the rafters. Next. Make a horrifying discovery inside. Michelle Jones House It's Greg. Have you heard the newest spotify original from podcast it's called very presidential with Ashley Flowers at it uncovers the most damning details surrounding history's most high-profile. Leaders. Every Tuesday through the twenty twenty election hoechst. Ashley. Flowers shines a light on the darker side of the American presidency. From Toward Love Affairs and contemptible corruption to Shocking cover-ups and even murder she'll exposed the personal and professional controversies. You may never knew existed. You'll hear some wildly true stories about president such as Richard. Nixon George Washington Teddy Roosevelt and more. Very presidential highlights the exploits you'd never learned in history class, but probably should have family drama personal vices, dirty secrets these presidents may have run, but they most certainly can't hide. Follow Berry presidential with Ashley Flowers Free On spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story. At seven forty, three PM on Wednesday September fourteenth two, thousand, four, nine, one, one call came into the Seminal County sheriff's office directing them to Michelle Jones home they were told that there was a man's body hanging in the garage and it was likely there were more bodies inside the house? The neighborhood made the nine one, one call along with Michelle Jones friend. Debbie night were waiting outside the house when police officers and paramedics arrived. Debbie watched nervous from across the street as the authorities entered the home. The investigators broke through the front door and entered the house. Once they step inside before they even saw anything the thick air told them. They were about to find something terrible the fetid stench fill the large house. It was the smell of death. The investigators carefully stepped into the living room there they spotted Charlie and Terry branch travel bags and a cooler as if the pair were getting ready to leave. But it was quickly clear. Those plans never came to fruition sitting on the couch in the living room slumped over and covered in blood was the dead body of Terry brant they were seven stab wounds enter chest the investigators then slowly walked down the hall to the Master Bedroom. Inside. Was a horrifying nauseating seen on the bed was the dead body of Michelle Jones she'd been stabbed in the chest like Terry, but her killer hadn't stopped there. Michelle's decapitated head was laying next year body as we're her severed left leg and breasts, her heart had also been cut out of her chest to bloody kitchen knives were found next to the body. Scattered across the floor were pieces of Michelle Jones underwear cut to rags by those same knives they were coincidentally Victoria's secret brand. Finally the investigators moved into the humid garage. They confirmed what Debbie and the neighbor had already seen but dead body of Charlie rant. Hanging by his neck from a bed sheet tied to a rafter a kicked over ladder lying a few feet away. Told them that Charlie died by suicide. Even for the most experienced and hardened police officers, the scene inside Michelle's home was difficult to handle several nauseated deputies walked out of the house physically second it was like nothing they'd ever seen in their careers. After examining the house, the investigators came to his simple conclusion at some point during the last two days. Charlie Brent murdered his wife and niece and spent hours mutilating Michelle's body. When he was finished, he showered and changed into clean clothes before hanging himself. However that conclusion posed. So many more questions why would charlie brand commit such brutal crime and could anyone have seen it coming? The discovery of the murder set off a shock wave in the community and amongst the family and friends of the dead. The. Senseless and horrific violence seemed completely inexplicable -Tarian Charlie Brandt were from the outside a perfect couple. Still, investigators were determined to find answers. They tried to keep the details quiet as they began their investigation refusing to comment to the press reports of how the bodies were found. But speculation and rumors continued unabated reporters went down to big pine key where the interviewed anyone they could find who knew Charlie and Terry. No one seemed have anything bad to say about Charlie nor did anyone suspect trouble in the brand's marriage many of Charlie's friends told reporters that they couldn't believe he was even capable of killing one friend claimed that Charlie even had a difficult time killing the fish that he caught though from what Jim? Graves reported Charlie had no such compunctions. But inside the branch home investigators uncovered evidence that illustrated the darkness inside. Charlie while he may have appeared to be a peaceful well adjusted man, he clearly harbored violent fixations. The first thing, the investigators found that peaked interest was a detailed poster illustrating dissecting women's body hanging on the back of the brand's bedroom door. It was the kind of thing that wouldn't have been out of place in a doctor's office but inside the bedroom, the investigators saw it as a sign of a man with disturbed fantasies. Alone the poster might have indicated the harmless curiosity of a scientific mind. But considering the state of Michelle's surgically mutilated body, it's suggested that this was something Charlie dreamed of for a long time. Their continued search of the house investigators found further evidence of Charlie's obsession with dissection including numerous medical journals and textbooks. Inside and anatomy book, they found a newspaper clipping with an image of a human heart. When they investigated Charlie's computer, they uncovered even darker material his browsing history including websites dedicated to necrophilia and sexualize violence against women. In. Addition to Charlie's dark obsessions, investigators discovered stressors beneath the surface of his seemingly idyllic life in big pine key most pertinently they found that in the weeks leading up to the murders Charlie was dealing with more than just an incoming hurricane. Charley's current employer Lockheed Martin, would soon experience a change of management and every employee was set to undergo a background check. It's possible that Charlie feared this would uncover the crimes he committed as a child that revelation might cause him to lose his job and unstitched his perfect life. The pressure was too much for Charlie to handle and like he done in nineteen seventy one he lashed out while interviewing Charlie and Terry, brands family and friends. The investigators found another possible reason Charlie snapped his wife was considering a divorce. A few days before the murder Michelle's friend Lisa Emmons spoke to Terry over the phone while they chatted Lisa mentioned her ongoing divorce and Terry then confided that she was considering divorcing charlie she was tired of living in the Florida keys and wanted to return to the mainland. But Charlie, was adamant that he wanted to stay. Terry's other friends confirmed that she'd spoken about divorce several times before. The police believed it was possible that Terry Threaten Charlie with divorce on the day of the murders causing the final argument. The revelations about Charlie's life and the discoveries inside his house and big pine key confirmed investigators that the murders in Orlando weren't impulsive acts. They were likely premeditated to some degree. The results of a man finely acting out as deepest darkest fantasies. It was an act. He put a lot of thought into if not the very victims heat imagined. Just because he was acting on his own obsessions and sexual fantasies though doesn't mean that Charlie had gone to Michelle Jones House intending to kill according to Dr J. Reid Malloy forensic psychologist. Some sexual homicides are triggered by stress factors in the killers life that suddenly build to an explosive emotional crisis as some investigators believed. Charlie Brandt was already anxious about his workplace issues and possible marriage troubles. Then living in the same house as Michelle Jones, the object of his longtime obsession might have been what caused him to finally lose control of his violent desires. It was perhaps a twisted case of being in the right place at the right time for Charlie's murderous impulses to reemerge. The news about Charlie's murders came as a shock to almost everyone who knew him but reportedly Charlie Sister Angie wasn't shocked when she first heard he was dead her I thought wasn't sadness. It was relief. Deep down she was still scared of her brother and never forgot what he was capable of it had been three decades since her mother's death and Angie still feared that Charlie would return to finish what he'd started according to Mary Lou. Angie often had difficulty sleeping and always kept her windows closed and locked at night. But no, her brother, the man who tried to kill her thirty three years ago was finally dead and Angie finally felt she was truly safe. She could sleazy knowing Charlie was gone. Angie was one of the few who knew that Charlie wasn't only capable of murder. He'd done it before in the days after the bodies were discovered as the investigators tried to figure out what had happened inside that House Angie struggled to decide whether to tell the police what she knew she wasn't sure whether she was finally ready to tell the truth about what had happened on January third nineteen seventy-one. Then she didn't know if she was ready to tell her younger sisters the truth of how their mother died. Two days after the murders, Angie Father Herbert and her youngest sister Jessica went to the police station to give the police their statement. It was part of routine procedure anti drove with them to the station. But when they arrived, she hesitated she told her family to go on without her. She didn't WanNa talk to the police yet Herbert and Jessica continued into the station while Angie sat in the car outside alone with her thoughts. Inside Jessica told the investigators that her brother had seemed perfectly normal when he visited her the weekend before the murders, she likely told them that Charlie never displayed any violent tendencies for as long as she's known him. After Jessica told the police all she knew and Herbert told them all. He was willing to share. Angie walked into the station and approach the senior detective alone. She told him she had information he needed to hear. A member of the brand family was finally going to tell the truth. The detective sat angie down in front of a tape recorder, her voice breaking into tears several times. Angie. told the story of January Third Nineteen, seventy, one of how her thirteen year old brother Charlie murdered their mother shot their father and nearly choked her to death. When she was finished telling her story investigators asked whether Terry brant knew about Charlie's violent past and she thought that Terry did because Charlie promised to tell her but then again, she didn't know for sure. The investigators now had everything they needed to close the case evidence motive and opportunity. They knew about Charlie's murderous past the stress factors in his life and his sexual obsessions with both human anatomy and his own niece. But there is one extremely disturbing question left unanswered Charlie's killings fit perfectly with the profile of a compulsive murderer immediately after seeing the crime in Orlando, the investigators felt certain they were dealing with someone who had done this before Michelle's body was to meticulously posed it. All felt too advanced for a first time offender so they wondered. Was Charlie Brandt a serial killer. Charlie had killed his mother in nineteen seventy one then his wife and niece in two, thousand, four, it was a long stretch of time in between the two events. Could he have committed any other murders in those thirty three years in between and gotten away with it? Next the investigators looked back on Charlie brands life and discover something horrifying now back to the story. As soon, as he saw the crime scene at Michelle, Jones's house in September two, thousand, four, the Seminole County Sheriff was convinced that forty seven year old Charlie brand had killed before. His methods, psychology and sexual compulsive motivation. All fit with the sheriff's idea of a serial killer. But was Charlie really one of them To answer that question investigators look backwards they went through every unsolved case from the previous thirty years in Florida searching for any that fit the modus operandi that charlie displayed in the murders of Terry brant and Michelle Jones two cases immediately stuck out. The first was the nineteen, eighty, nine murder of Sherri Aparicio. Sherry was a thirty eight year old former beauty queen who lived a transient life in the Florida keys. In, the summer of one, thousand, nine, hundred, nine, Sherry lived in big pine key normally docking boat just a few blocks away from the brand's house. On July Nineteenth Nineteen eighty-nine, a fisherman saw what he thought was a mannequin about ten feet underwater by the Pine Channel. Bridge. When he tried to reel it in, he discovered to his horror that it wasn't a mannequin. It was Sherry Perry? Show. Her body had been mutilated in a similar fashion to Michelle Jones. Her heart had been cut out of her chest her neck was cut. So deeply that investigators presumed killer tried but failed to completely decapitate her. One of the police divers who retrieve the body described the cut says surgical. Unfortunately beyond the body itself police had very little evidence. The best they had was a composite sketch of a man walking near the crime scene, the night of the murder, but it wasn't enough and the murder remained unsolved but Terry brant had suspected Charlie's involvement in the murder. In fact, she'd made a point of telling her husband's friend Jim Graves concerns. When Jim Confronted Charlie to ask about the murder all he got was a flat denial. So Jim believed his friend. However. Sheri's murder fit perfectly with a pattern of Charlie brands two, thousand, four slayings, the same victim type, the same surgical precision, and possibly the same sex compulsive motives. When he heard that the police were probing Sherry perishable case again, Jim Graves came forward with what he knew. Grace, told police about how Terry brant had confided in him that she suspected. Charlie. Might Have Killed Cherry and about Charlie's mysterious blood covered close on the night of the murder that revelation was enough for the police department to consider the Sherry Perry show case closed Charlie Brandt was declared her murderer but there were more crimes still to be discovered. The second case that the authorities investigated was the murder of thirty five year old Darlene toler Darlene was a sex worker in the little Havana neighborhood of Miami whose body was discovered on November Twenty Fourth Nineteen Ninety five the day after Thanksgiving. Just, like Sherry Perry show and Michele. Jones Darlene was decapitated and her heart surgically removed. Her body was wrapped in plastic rolled into a blanket and left by the side of the highway neither head nor her heart were ever found. The method of murder clearly fit Charlie Brandt, but the location of the crime scene created some doubt. Darlene body was found nearly one hundred miles away from Charlie's home in big pine key. But when they looked closer investigators discovered that Charlie had maintained meticulous records of his car's gas usage through the years, and there'd been a huge spike in mileage on November twenty fourth nineteen ninety, five. The lead detective speculated that while his wife was working Charlie drove to Miami to find a victim. Found Darlene toler. Although his actions may have been opportunistic and impulsive. It's still likely Charlie. Carefully planned his killings a nineteen ninety seven studied by psychologists Bradley are Johnson and Judith Becker in the Journal of the American Academy, of Psychiatry, and the law noted that some sexually sadistic serial killers plan their crimes in detail from organizing kids of tools to use beforehand to precisely selecting a victim to leaving behind an orderly crime scene serial killers tend to commit more organized planned homicides, and this attention to detail helps them avoid notice and capture for decades. Because Charlie traveled often for work the seminole county investigators expanded their scope and began looking all over the country using Charlie's work schedule and Terry's diary detectives put together a thirty five page timeline of Charlie's travels between one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, one, and two, thousand, four trying to find more unsolved crimes that might have been his handiwork. With help from the FBI, the investigators narrowed down the search to around twenty additional unsolved murders committed in those thirty three years. All shared a similar signature to Charlie brands crimes. The crimes went as far back as nineteen seventy eight when Charlie was twenty two years old. Hoping to gain more insight into Charlie's mind and motives. Investigators went after his medical records from Indiana. They hope that records of the treatment he received during his year in a mental health facility would shed some light on what drove him to kill. While the lead investigators believe Charlie's medical records, help them better understand his motives. They didn't provide any additional clues to help with the other unsolved cases. Cold cases are difficult to solve without direct physical evidence. Thanks to the evidence provided by Jim Graves investigators closed the Sherry Aparicio case for Darlene toler. However, the case remains unsolved while DNA tests were performed in two thousand, seven on dog cares found near Taylor's body the results were not reported to the media. Many investigators still believed that Charlie was responsible for her death. The Truth About Charlie Brandt what really motivated his crimes how many murders he actually committed will likely never be known to the families of Terry, brant and Michelle Jones though the biggest question isn't about Charlie's motives crimes it's about whether Terry knew about Charlie's violent past and why Charlie's family kept it hidden. Mary Lou, Jones, Terry sister, and Michelle's mother believes that Terry couldn't have known about Charlie's past because if she did, she wouldn't have married him. She blames the brand family for keeping it a secret. In. The years since the murders Mary Lou has lobbied for the passage of Michelle Lenz's law, which would unseal the public records of violent crimes committed by all people, including miners and place this information in the database as of two thousand twenty, the law has not been passed. Still Mary Lou hopes the existence of such database might prevent someone like Charlie Brandt from killing again. Meanwhile, the Brent family has receded from public view since two thousand, four Angie and Herbert print have not spoken publicly about Charlie just like they did after Charlie's first murder and nineteen seventy-one, the brand family prefers to move on and try to live out their lives. It seems like they would prefer to act Jessica. Charlie's murders never happened after decades of pain they want the past to remain the past. Thanks. Again, for tuning into serial killers will be back next week with a new episode. For more information on Charlie, Brandt amongst the many sources we used, we found invisible killer the monster behind the mass by Diana Montana and Sean Robbins extremely helpful to our research. You can find more episodes of serial killers and all other podcast originals for free on spotify not only does spotify already have all of your favorite music but now spotify easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like serial killers for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream serial killer on spotify just the APP in type serial killers in the search bar. Will see you next time of a killer week. Serial killers was created by Max Cobbler and his apar- cast studios original executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler sound designed by Trent Williamson with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly, madden, and Aaron Larson this episode of Serial Killers was written by Ryan Lee with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon and stars, Greg Poulsen and Vanessa Richardson. Again it's Greg before I. Go I wanted to remind you to check out the noon spotify originally from Parkhouse, very presidential with Ashley Flowers every Tuesday through the twenty twenty election host. Ashley flowers shines a light on the darker side of the American presidency exposing wildly true stories about history's most high-profile leaders. There's toward love affairs, shocking blackmail schemes, and even murder. I can't recommend the show enough to hear more follow very presidential with Ashley, flowers, free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Jessica Charlie Charlie Brandt charlie Michelle Terry Michelle Jones Carl Charlie Brandt Terry brant murder Charlie Brent Charlie brands Orlando Angie Father Herbert spotify Jim Graves Florida Mary Lou Vanessa Richardson
Finding Peace in Turbulent Times

Deep Background with Noah Feldman

40:03 min | 6 months ago

Finding Peace in Turbulent Times

"Pushkin i wanna give a shout out to mcdonald's for the support of ronald mcdonald house which gives families a home away from home when they travel tough moments like cancer care. Each year ronald mcdonald house. Charities provides space for millions of families spend quality time together during tough moments. They can do that because of your generosity and also because of the generosity of mcdonald's at the end of the day when you're with your loved ones your home. Mcdonald's serving here. All clad has been making cutting edge cookware for nearly fifty years. Very best of american craftsmanship at a factory and cannons berg answering. You can find their products in the kitchens of the finest chefs in the kitchens of beginners. Glad makes cookware that eats evenly of quickly and consistently and can withstand a lifetime of meals. Clad helps you feel confident in preparing for yourself those your moment visit. Glad dot com for more information from pushkin industries. This is deep background. The show where we explore the stories behind the stories in the news. I'm noah feldman today. Our show is just a little bit different because we're going to explore a story behind the story in the news but the story in the news is just the basic idea of crisis in recent weeks. The united states has felt like a nation in crisis and then that national crisis is repeated out at the individual level for hundreds or thousands or maybe even millions of people each of whom is struggling with the core questions of how to live talk about crises and how we can draw on the resources of spirituality to address them. I'm joined today by professor michael. Alexander professor alexander is a professor of religious studies at the university of california riverside. And he's the author of an extraordinary new book called making peace with the universe personal crisis and spiritual healing. I've known mickey since we were graduate students together. And i had the pleasure and the privilege of hearing him talk through and work on the ideas that went into this book. Four years when the book finally emerged it moved me tremendously. it's written accessibly. it's written beautifully. And it's written in a way that can affect the reader at an individual personal level in other words. It's nothing like an academic book usually a mickey. Thank you so much for being here for me. This is like the culmination of the dream to get you onto this podcast to talk about this amazing book and making peace with the universe so first of all. Just thank you for doing it and thank you for being here. Yes you've been involved with this longtime cried on your shoulder many many nights trying to figure this thing out and it's great to finally seed in the world. Your book starts with a crisis and then it's gonna give us more people's crises but it starts with a crisis of your own and the crisis takes place on sardinia which you call a playground for europe's richest people which is not the obvious place for a crisis but maybe start if you would by telling the listeners what that crisis was because that will help us understand why you wrote the book. The original inspiration for the book is older than the crisis. I've been teaching religion and religious studies now for twenty years and have been studying it professionally for thirty and i got my first job at the university of oklahoma in one thousand nine hundred nine having moved there from the east coast and turn on the radio and i heard this song a country song that i'd never heard before because it never really listened to country music before and it was a by the super group called the the highway men and it had willie nelson and johnny cash. The song is about the spirit of adventure. The first verse is sung by willie nelson and it's about a pirate on the seas and the second verses about some kind of other adventure and i got in my head that someday i would like to write a book about the spirit of spiritual adventure and it just sat there for ten years and then i came to my own crisis as it were. I was having family trouble. It was nothing exceptional In fact it was just sort of very typical domestic chaos. But i did wonder after all these years of studying about the care of the soul. How come. I wasn't able to sort of take care of my own. And at that exact moment. I was called upon by a good friend who was getting married on. The island has started dania to say some words in his wedding. And i have anything for two site. I was on the airplane. I had a yellow pad in front of me that was completely empty of any notes to say about the reality of marriage and off. I went to try to say something to these people. While i myself was contemplating getting out of my own and up on the day us a verse from the upon sheds returned to me. And that's what i talked about in the verse is a fascinating verse from the kauthen which is a very old text. Roughly the the period of the hebrew bible. And it's the story about a person who was given a favor or a gift by the gods. They're given the opportunity to ask death any question that you could possibly think of. And so the person who's given the gift thinks through. What would you ask of death. What would you ask the entity that has seen the course of every life and knows what a life amounts to and the asks the question essentially is there anything in life that has ever feels like you amounted to anything or anything that's worth doing. That's the question death responds with a verse. Which is very terse or sinked. Then the verse is there is a path of pleasure in there is a path of joy both attract the soul or a person those who seek joy come to find it and those who seek pleasure. Never come to the end. That's the verse that i quoted for him and then set a couple of words about it and then got off the day us and was completely mortified that said something inscrutable and and a meaningless at my friend's wedding but afterwards people came up to me and the we talked about it and i realized that i needed to look more at the classic sources that for so long. I had treated as a scholar but had not treated for my own my own journey essentially and so. I made a on the island to start any. I made this kind of packed with myself to put all my other research on. Hold the start to re look at all the verses and aphorisms and myths and rituals everything that i've ever looked at his though i was a kind of a zookeeper at the zoo watching other people and i realized that in fact i was. I needed the help myself. And so at began this journey which turned out to be a ten year journey in which started to very deeply. Look into those sources. Not as an academic. Although it's academically stolid and factually all accurate but really for me. There's something about being an academic that kind of splits us into two parts even if we study something that's about the human condition like you. Do you say religious studies. What could be more fundamentally about the human condition or about the relationship of the human to the divine we nevertheless get so trained in thinking about history. Sociology philosophy anthropology that we tend to split were studying apart from our actual individual daily lives. And i think in some ways what's so fascinating to me about your whole project. You're in about the book that came out of it. Is that standing there in sardinia. You had the realization that there's no point in doing all of this scholarship and study about the human condition if we can't turn it to ourselves and apply it to ourselves and i think a lot of academics response to that would be no no. Don't don't go there and you step back. It's too hard and it will be too hard to be objective. Why did you in that moment. Think no i gotta take it the other way. I've got to do the thing that actually not academics imagine. We're all doing all the time namely for looking for the answers to the world's questions try to look for those answers to use them for ourselves. Well i can't answer the question in the arena of the law or in the arena of medicine where somebody can potentially die on the operating table as a result of a kind of a method that is unorthodox but i think i'm liberated by the fact that it is religious studies and that if somebody should fail one of my classes nobody dies on the operating table besides the marital aspect of it i would. I did have kind of a a crisis regarding. What am i doing teaching religion because so much of it as you're well aware from your own work is just the this justifications of nationalism and sexism and racism and so i would be standing up in front of my students sort of thinking. What is the value here. What why are we studying. All this old stuff and it became clear to me that for myself it was the value of it was in the arena of therapy personal therapy. And that's actually. I came to the insight in reading and teaching all these confessions confessional literature. For so many years. I realized that. Most of the great confessions from augusta and down to the present to tolstoy or whoever else had been the result of somebody having a personal freak out in their lives and the 'cause religion had been the form for therapy before was modern. Therapy people turned to it when they had nowhere else to turn to when they needed to take one step forward. And i just realized that all of these confessions were in fact case histories of spiritual therapy as it were but i came to that realization. Actually somebody who was seeking in other words. When i was reading a guston i wanted to figure out how he'd figured out his life. So i could figure out my life. When i read tolstoy's confessions. I was doing the same thing. I stopped reading it as a third person. And i started reading the stuff as though we're were self help literature because i think that's what it was the fastest growing category of quote unquote religious affiliation in the united states is people who say i'm not religious i'm spiritual and it really strikes me that your book is partly about how there's really no difference between those things i mean in the end. The religious traditions were all designed from the beginning to address spirituality. And the people you write about in your book are on spiritual journeys i mean. What we have is people tend to associate with religion the institutional ism of and that's not what your book is about at all and that's not what the book is about at all and i felt liberated in sort of going to the spiritual because there are precedents and the greatest precedent was actually the founder of american psychology and the founder of american religious studies. James who himself had gone through a tough marriage and he was in his late thirties. Early forties it never published a book. You was up at harvard at it near your offices sucking down. Nitrous oxide canisters in his office in calling it research. He was in a bad way and he started to return to some of the spiritual masters that he had read about it in his youth. More seriously and the result of that work was the varieties of religious experience which published in the in the early part of the twentieth century. And it really turned his life around so he makes a distinction about religion as an institutional function and religion is a personal or private function. And i think a lot of my colleagues have a lot of problem with putting those blinders on it. And i do because i think that if you're missing the nationalism in the sexism and the racism and all of that you're a lot about how religion functions nevertheless i still felt this spiritual curiosity and i felt that there was this essential thing driving people. To either religion or spirituality that was not simply getting pushed around by power politics. That was people looking for something and was looking for something. Let's turn now to the thing you found. And of course. This is part of why people should read the book. But i'd like for listeners. To get a flavor of your core observation the thing you found in different spiritual traditions that you explored each of which in one way or another picks up on the idea that you began with the idea that there is a path of joy and a path of pleasure and you can find the path of but the path of pleasure has no end. That inside simply rang true to me. Meaning that when. I thought about my own life and instances of pleasure. I thought about all the conquests of saturday night that sunday morning receded into darkness and blackness and You know all the time that i was on an internet browser you know in four hours later getting up asking myself. What kind of a black hole was. I just down. In other words there was would felt like a pat with no end. And then i thought about other episodes in my life in which it they seemed edifying the episodes that i would call joyful and even the words that seemed old fashioned to me joy who uses it but the episodes that i would use this joyful or think about as joyful had a kind of edifying aspect to it and i use the word edifice building up at meant that after you did that behavior you felt like you built yourself up like there was something left standing after you had done it which was so different from pursuit of pleasure where they almost receded while. You're doing it if not just shortly thereafter and i started to think about what's the mechanism by which joys are created both of these are flavors of happiness. They're also deeply related to one. Another one can enjoy pleasures in a joyful aspect even something as basic as sexual relations done within the context of a meaningful relationship. It doesn't feel empty. It feels like something has been edified by the act. So i wanted to get to the mechanism of what that was what transposes pleasures into joys and sometimes when pleasures aren't available how do you have joys even in the worst and hardest of circumstances as we all sometimes have to do. It's not just about chasing pleasure. Sometimes you're alone with your best friend in a hospital gurney. And in their passing away and so those moments that have these intense feelings of connection that are not necessarily related to pleasures. But sort of give you a kind of they throw you into a spiritual mood. I wanted to find out how that happened. And i read the sources and it was pretty clear to me that the obvious statement that we talked about before was the mechanism that made all those things happen. Which is that. Religion was the forum or is the form in which people thinking about the weight of the world and when i gave myself over to the fact that the world has weight and meaning at all. That's when the joy started to arise what i heard you saying. Was that when you feel the weight of the world on you that the key thing to be able to do is to embrace the idea that the world has meaning and by doing that. You're able to give what you call in the book giving your assent to the universe instead of fighting back against it to be at peace with the weight that the world has on you and so what i wanted to ask you about that because that feels to me like it's very close to the heart of your proposal in the book very close to what you've derived from these religious traditions for me. Sometimes when i'm feeling that way the weight of the world. That's exactly when it's hardest to believe that the world does have meaning. But i i heard you to be saying. The key is acknowledged that the world has meaning but from at least that's often the hardest part so what's the trick as it were. How does one move from feeling the weight of the world to thinking will. The weight of the world does have meaning and through that meaning. I give my assent to the universe. Weight and gravity are a metaphor that use the reason being that there's no language that can really pin it down. I avoid the word meaning. Because i'm not sure that joyful moments necessarily have meaning in other words I just remember when my kids were young. There was an episode in which my youngest who might have been three or four at the time took a piece of saran wrap and put it over the toilet bowl as a trap for the next person who would use the toilet and when i saw it i felt joy now. I don't know what the meaning of the situation was. But i don't think it has significance beyond the fact that that little kid was playing a trick and yet there was something that about the acted made the world feel like it was revolving on well oiled hinges that i was at one with the universe. That was okay. Sometimes that occurs in very hard circumstances. I used the word gravitas or gravity because the idea of it is that things feel like they have wait. I mean things feel like people are born and people die and these things matter. And that when i fall into the trap of thinking that these things don't matter that's usually when my own pain and agony are actually exacerbated. An are the worst another words if one went ahead and tried to do something about those difficulties in the world and embrace them as important or everything about it of the world is important. That's when the joys came so it seemed to me it was Emotion it was an emotional response as opposed to intellectual one. Meaning that recognizing just the reality that i feel that the world and things in it matter started to feel good. Why do you think that your kids prank had this effect on you. I mean it's almost. Like zen cohen of you know the the saran wrap over the toilet bowl. You part of me wants to try to analyze it symbolically and think that it's about death and that it's about transparency. Is clearly the wrong way to go about thinking of the story. The question is why did it do this for. Why did it give you that feeling of the world. Having weight in a good way i think because i saw my kid who was two or three years old participating participating in joy and laughter and it was a kind of pleasure at the fact of watching the young kid come into themselves and grow old and watch their intellect developed to the point that they were ready to set a trap like that it was. It was watching. The world turned the way. It's supposed to as were something that i find really hard in. The context of spiritual growth is making the move from the isolated experience. Like you're describing where you have that feeling of connection you have that feeling of the world doing what it's supposed to do and mattering and then translating that into a sustained feeling of well-being. Sometimes i feel very lucky. And i am able to experience a moment of what. You're calling joy a moment of connection yet. I still find it difficult to as it were regularized. That sentiment or make it feel good over time. What the traditions. That you've studied in the examples that you say we're going to turn to some of those examples in a moment. What do they say about that about that. Move from a moment recognition to actually being able to live well and in peace with the universe time first of all. It's always moment by moment and you always slip in and out of it. There's always a tension with seeing a meaningless universe in which you only want to run away from the problems of so it's simple to recognize but it's never easy to do. A regimen of prayer is a means by which basically all traditions remind a person to sort of think about how the world is turning. There are greater holidays in lesser holidays but typically. Most traditions really advocate taking a break every couple of hours and for things that you do regularly such as wash your hands or take a meal in which it's time to stop and basically say i appreciate this. I know the alternative. It throws you back into a position of gratitude and also of responsibility by which i mean when you recognize the way to the world you realize that your job is to pay it forward. The metaphor that i liked so much about gravity is that it's not about you. It's about something else it's about throwing in your chips with with some function were power that is not just about poor me and the amazing and ironic aspect of doing it. Is that almost as soon as you stop thinking about. Poor me through ones focused to things. That are more important than me. Your own therapy were my own. Therapy was achieved almost instantly. A lot of my own self. Pity really came Exactly from that poor me. Poor me not that. I don't have my own problems that other people don't have very very substantial problems but paying it forward is Pretty substantial way of digging oneself out of that hole. And i think that the religion's really do try to offer ritualized opportunities to do that. We'll be right back waiting for that. Special package to arrive. Can't be home for the holidays. This holiday season give the gift of peace of mind with smart home security from blink an amazon company for a limited time. Only you can protect what matters most day or night rain or shine starting at just twenty four ninety nine blink. Smart security cameras offer. Hd day and night video customizable motion alerts two way audio and more. They even work with alexa. So you can control your cameras and systems using your voice from the all new battery powered weather resistant blink. Outdoor cameras to blink mini a mighty but tiny indoor plug in cam. You can see and speak to loved ones and furry ones right from the free blink app on your phone for a limited time. Only save up to forty percent on select cameras and systems when you visit. Amazon dot com slash blink. Holiday peace of mind is here with blink visit amazon dot com slash blink holiday today so i wanna tell you about a great show out of canada that i recently discovered. The world is changing fast. Am i right and as you know this. New reality demands new approaches to just about every aspect of our lives. Because let's face it. How we work. Invest travel entertain educate socialize. And look after ourselves is going to become pretty much unrecognizable in the next five or ten years disruptors and rv podcast explores the important connection between innovation and the next phase of the economy hosted by bestselling author and thought leader. John stackhouse disruptors shines the light on cutting edge technologies innovative adaptations and new tactics for doing business. It's all about building the future. This is a show where you'll learn. How the latest developments in tech business education and science are shaping our world and you'll meet the leaders who are putting tomorrow solutions in place. Today you can subscribe listen and enjoy disruptors for free. Wherever you get your podcasts michael. In your book you've got amazing chapters which are sort of spiritual biographies in miniature of figures who had crises and engage with them. They're all amazing. But i want to ask you about two in particular one because it was the one that i knew the most about to begin with and i was fascinated by your approach to it and the other because it was the one i knew nothing about so the one i knew a little bit about was the story of the great muslim philosopher and critic a philosophy of hamad avas alley. I wonder if you'd start with his tail and what it was about his experience that resonated for you i came across a title of his. I didn't know anything about him. And the title was the alchemy of happiness. It was written in. Persian was a persian precipice of a larger arabic. Work that he had been working on for a long time. I didn't know anything about any of them. And so i started digging into who is gazali and what is the alchemy of happiness. And i happened upon his autobiography. His amazing confession autobiography the deliverance from error. And as i read it to be perfectly honest. I thought a lot about you because you and i go back a time we were. I was in graduate school with you. Law school and gazali was a lawyer. He was the top lawyer for the sultan in a period in which the sultan ran everything practically from india to turkey and he had a really good job. Use the top of the law profession. The things that he said and the strokes of his pan really changed lives hundreds of thousands of them and then one day or over a period of a couple of weeks. The all the top people were dead. There was either a coup or bad things happened in everything that ghazali had worked towards and had become a part of crashed into the sand and there was a huge power. Vacuum that occurred in the region and dahlie didn't know what to do. He basically has a cartesian moment of saying. Where did we go wrong. How do we start this from the beginning step by step and were there calculations that we achieved that we thought we were doing in the name of god that in fact read to the complete devolution of of society and so he took a step back. He did whatever he responsible dole would do in this situation. He runs away. He runs away from baghdad. Because he's had. Since he was a kid spiritual curiosity he'd heard about the sufis his whole life they had been on the street corners. He heard the things they said. They made very little sense to him but they there is something about them. That rang like they could be true. The mystics sufi are the muslim mystics. Yeah the sufis are the great mystics of islam so he took the opportunity to go finally to follow his his spiritual curiosity. he and a friend go to damascus. Which at the time was the center of mysticism. It's still a great mystical city. Christianity and islam have great practices from there. All the great sufi texts seemed to have been published from there so he gets up and he goes there to study and his life is turned around on account of it and he finds grounding He finds spiritual grounding and so he really became intellectual hero. I mean to this day. I think about ghazali as the greatest of all time as it were you know because of the bravery of that because of the bravery of basically being at the top of your profession feeling like. You're not where you need to be and going for it. Which isn't to say. The people need to leave their professions. Or anything like that. But it's it's as though. I mean i think is ali in particular. Gave me the permission to look at my own spiritual curiosity because he had done so himself so explicitly and so carefully. I mean my god. I can't think of an intellectual that really pierce through to the most essential issues more clearly than gazali. The other person whom i really wanted to ask you about is the extraordinary jazz pianist. Mary lou williams and i knew her only as a name and perhaps a little bit of i had heard a little bit of for music but i had no idea of the extraordinary story of her crisis and awakening. Tell us a little bit about mary. Lou williams so i've been trying to teach myself jazz qatar. For at least as long as i've been trying to study religion. I'm probably as successful in both of them. Which is not very much. So i'd heard about mary. Lou williams at somebody who had written a conceptual piece in the nineteen forties called zodiac sweet. And that's how. She sort of entered the canon. I somehow i guess just scratching around. I learned that in in in nineteen fifty four when she was aged forty four. She had a mental breakdown and walked off the stage in paris and decided she was never going back again. And so i became very interested in the life of mary lou williams and why that happened and so i dug in deep. It turns out that mary lou williams was a piano genius of the rank of of count. Basie it's amazing as a female instrumentalist. She was the piano player. That basically swung the andy kirk band in the nineteen thirties so she can't partner of a kansas city group. That was there with count. Basie and benny goodman. And all of them and She made her bones in the thirty s in the nineteen forties. She moved to new york and became part of the bebop generation and the came the teacher to some towering giants of piano including thelonious monk and The great bud powell and so. She was kind of recognized this real heavyweight in the scene. Miles davis was always trying to record with her dizzy. Gillespie was a essentially her best friend or one of her best friends and she walked off the stage at age. Forty four. When i heard about that or learned about that i just felt the same visceral reaction as many of us do which is the desire to just walk off the stage and so i investigated as deeply as i could and saw yet another person able to turn their life around in her case She was completely disbanded. in paris. a french shows up to get her back to new york and tells her to start praying the psalms and mary lou williams had always had a spiritual curiosity in this opened up in her again. The permission to go ahead and look into it. She gave up the piano and she started to pray fervently and then even though she was an african american woman arrays essentially in baptist circles in new york city as she was kind of wandering around in harlem on a tuesday or wednesday afternoon looking for somewhere to sort of pray because she'd become quite fervent in it. She noticed that the catholic church was open. Which is such an amazing aspect of catholicism. Which is that the churches or the cathedral's are just there for people to walk in to get a little bit of rest into have maybe a private chat with the creator or with whoever or however you want to conceive of divinity and. She started to do that very very regularly. And at some point she started to hear things specifically music on her knees praying before her son savior. She started to get sounds in her head and she decided. I have to put this into for other people to appreciate the same feeling of prayer that i have or within reading my book. I recommend people go and listen to mary. lou's mass. That's the first thing i would tell them to do It's it's a stunning work. It's not off or mozart. It swings berge genius was the recognition that the swing rhythm brings people together. Read them is one of the most profound an inch and aspects of the religious or spiritual life all traditions. Essentially have it. We have native american traditions from fifteen thousand years ago. Very likely there are these architectural circles that are created in north america that are currently reflected in in sundance rituals but these rituals are all around the world. People getting together with rhythm together and then commuting with one another in something larger than themselves and she. She wrote that she realized that. That's what jazz could be. And she became absolutely committed to writing a jazz mass and and having performed at the vatican. I think it's a great story. I could talk about it forever. It's an extraordinary story. And i agree with your recommendation. That's what i what i did when i was reading. That chapter is that. I immediately went and downloaded her music. And listen to it. While i was reading the chapter in the combination was really really extraordinary. I wanted to ask mickey finally about whether the process of writing the book struggling with the ideas in the book and finding some kind of peace through the book worked for you. I mean i found. I have to say reading the book to be extremely powerful and it really helped me in my own journey clearly an unfulfilled in my case to try to come to terms with the weight of the world. And i'm wondering if it was helpful for you. I wonder if you know where you when you think about where you are now. As a human being in relation to the universe relative to where you were when you began thinking about this project and struggling with it and putting it through the draft after draft and the efforts to try to make sense of it and to experience it. Do you feel that you are in a different place. Now was writing the book journey for you in a way that reading the book at obviously a much more modest and small-scale feels like a journey to me. Yes book i mean the answer is yes. I'm in a better place. I was given permission to follow my spiritual curiosity by gazali by mary. Lou williams by the other figures in the book and that was it. That was the keys to the kingdom. And i wanted to that earlier. Desire to write a book about the spirit of spiritual adventure is really what i was trying to achieve. That other people and myself could just see how it had played out in people's lives and worked for them in just to give people the idea that hey could potentially work for me. I feel like you know for listeners. Who may ask themselves practically speaking okay. I've got spiritual curiosity. What do i do next right. I think the answer is follow it. I think that's i think that's the answer that there's no particular Thing for you to do. Everyone has to run their own experiment. And so if you've always wanted to read the bagua dida then pick it up and if you've always wanted to learn cantatas or whatever your curiosity is it's worth pursuing in. Its own right that earlier. Distinction between pleasure and joy is a distinction that i make for myself now daily and regularly in a ritualized manner that we were talking about before. Which is that. I'm constantly asking myself whenever. I have enough sort of sentence to be able to ask myself this question. Which is is what. I'm about to do the path of pleasure or is it. The path of joy is it something. That's going to just dissipate as soon as i do it. Or is it something that's going to be edifying and helped me to build myself up and typically. My inner voice is staggeringly clear when. I'm aware enough to ask the question. Something tells me when. I'm on the right path and when i'm doing something that is edifying and when i'm on wrong path and one of them doing something that is going to feel really bad and spiritual curiosity. I have never. I've never seen an instance in my life in which it has led to conditions which i severely regretted. I do have to say that you know we do face the problem that people do use religion for all kinds and spirituality for all kinds of terrible things in i don't know what their inner voices tell them. I don't know but for me that distinction between what is edifying and what is not is clarifying to the very end michael alexander. You can't say it any better than that. Thank you very much for that formulation. I think especially in times as crazy. And it's polarized and his intense as the ones were going through to try to keep that distinction between pleasure. Enjoy in mind is really revelatory. Thank you help. what a pleasure i. I'm a longtime listener. But a first time caller. So thanks for having me on this show. Thanks micky wealth. Okay you talking. To professor alexander really brought home for me. Just why. I found his book so powerful. We all encounter and face crises. Sometimes those crises are not of our own making and come from the state of the nation. The way things have felt in recent weeks other times those crises feel. Like they emerge almost unbidden out of our own limited human spiritual capabilities and resources. When that happens we need help and we need to be able to turn to wise friends and deep thinkers and as it happens. Mickey alexander is both for me the takeaway from our conversation and from his book is that we can look inside ourselves and seek after a path of joy which doesn't mean that we have big smiles on our faces all the time but rather that were able to embrace the experiences of making meaning that we encounter at every minute at every day in our lives and that can help us make better choices. It can help us move away. From the path of transient pleasures or transient pains and in the direction of those things that matter most to us and that therefore enable us to feel the weight of the world and give our assent to it until the next time i speak to you be careful. Be safe and be well. Deep background is brought to you by pushkin industries. Our producer is lydia. Gene caught our engineering martine gonzalez and our show. Runner is sophie crane. Mckibben the music by louis. Kara at pushkin thanks to yellow bell. Julia parton had their fain. The ori- mackie taylor. Eric sandler and jacob weisberg. You can find me on twitter and no are felton. I also read a column for bloomberg opinion which you can find at bloomberg dot com slash felt to discover bloomberg's original slate of podcasts. Go to bloomberg dot com slash podcast. And if you liked what you heard today please write a review portela frac. This is deep background.

ronald mcdonald pushkin industries willie nelson noah feldman professor michael Alexander professor alexander sardinia mcdonald tolstoy gazali guston american religious studies mary lou williams Lou williams ghazali Pushkin zen cohen dania university of oklahoma mickey