20 Episode results for "Mars"
S3 EP1: The Unexplainable Reappearance of Mars Patel
"Hello podcast listeners. If you're like me, you want to hear the full story of what happens to Mars Patel and his friends find out how the story unfolds as well. As the gripping conclusion with Pinna, what's Pinna. Well, it's the only place to stream new episodes of Mars Patel season three here all of season two as well as tons of other awesome, podcasts music and audio books. Find your next favorite audio show on pinup. That's P I n N A. Try Pinna free for thirty days by visiting the app store today. Terry, one of the co creators Moore's Patel. We're so excited to bring you the amazing conclusion of the Mars Patel story. We wanted to let you know that season three would not have been made without the support of our friends. So please if you wanna stream the entire season head over to pin dot FM. Start listening today if you'd like to own a piece of the show forever we've made the entire series available on an amazing box set of CDs by the entire series or just season three by itself. Check the show notes for details or visit Mars Patel dot com. We hope you enjoy the thrilling conclusion wars Patel. Thank you so much for sticking with us. And now with the show. Podcast listless and welcome back long time. No speak. Of course. I don't know if you'll hearing the doll if anyone is hearing me. If I'm simply broadcasting into the great void of space space where I am. The intrepid crew of the Manu one have been a drift for computer. How long since we left the service of moss for seventeen days four hundred seventeen days and still no sign of a we've had some good times above the the at one over the last year, or so, for example, I've grown salt and pepper that is quite thick and distinguished JP narrowly defeated Aurora in the inaugural rock, paper, scissors universal championship. Toothpick wrote an epic two thousand page poem entitled at the MAs even taught himself to play. Keyboard. He requested that I not reveal that we all father and son, and I have reluctantly on it those wishes. Dear I suppose, I just broke my promise. But since it's likely, no one is listening. It doesn't count right? Now onto the question of. Toothache? Did you the less freeze dried beef read on the ship? No JP. I had lost freeze dried lasagna right Trone who tied to point out the the puberty struck one toothpicks voices. Why vid Loa wouldn't you say? Would you please keep it down? I'm trying to record a podcast if the podcast drops in the middle of space, nobody hears it doesn't make a sound over or view the Brita thief. I'm a vegetarian. Since we ran out of dehydrated burgers yesterday. Maybe was Mars where is he? Here. I am I asked you not to write nothing round the shit on a sing. Yes, podcast listeners. Have I mentioned that a young Todd degrade stowed aboard the ship when we left the red planet. Mas named cupcake. The rapper to veto got to be kidding me. The freaky. Tar grade Athos Reno. Listen cone face. It's fortunate that MAs has such a knack with these reckless creatures. I remember the first time I laid eyes on I thought you said you created them. Warning navigation systems. Morning. What's going? I don't know. Something's disrupting the ships got in system. It's yeah. Into what could be any black fall an Einstein Rosen bridge. Whatever it is. It's big get us out. Can you system? I can barely control steady. It's too powerful. Any ideas, everyone to escape pods failing on the shit. We don't have a choice. The new one might not survive in less than a minute. We could all be vapor. Strikes. We can reconnect one all out there. You had me in favor is let's go quite behind you. Go. Crony. What everyone along the pot that Cup kicking out? We'll get our. Into my pot Joni. Let's go. Computer, pots, one two and three launching Palm's. One two three. Time to go. I'm right behind you, the pod door stone coke. It can get it. Waiting for. Pot four. Montgomery. That's not. Should be something to what is that? Five days. What? What happened earth? Tamar come in Mars Jonas. Yeah. What planet? Did you just go to eighteen? How did I answer the question five days? What you know? He's talking about Jonas over aura the one and only and it's been five days since caddy went missing, right? What? This can't be happening. You keep saying that. But it did happen Kati left without saying goodbye. Now, you're all catty disappeared we have to find her cut him a break. Marzan Cattier like Mars and caddy. No this. This isn't right Mars. Can we please just go to class class? But I was just on a ship. We were lost the space after he took off on the planet Mars. You're with me Aurora. K was I on the spaceship to know, you you were improved breath, but then earth disappeared, and this dream, or if it is you need to wake up because you're sounding crazy. There was something out there and gone to a scape hotter. And is this some kind of joke Mars. It's no joke Jonas this all happened before sort of, but you were shorter. And your voice was hired. Not the only one going through. How are we talking? And it was a borough missing. Not catty we were standing right here in the hallway talking about it and the code red happened and then. That was hired. But it probably. This. We into the closet. That's for caddying. I were last time crate than you won't have to keep talking about it. What is this back in time or something Jonas Morris in? Wow. It's really dark in here. I know not listen. A what Jonas I gotta go. Not again, the bowels are irritable man, and you forgot to take your meds. Yeah. It's a code red. Yeah. We'll have a cold Brown pants. How did you say that you can't go out there? This is disappeared. What are you talking about? The last time. I don't know. What's happening, but Jonas Shari Mars can't stick around for anymore. Kukoc? She won the other side. I have to stop him Mars. Wait. I need to talk to you about what? Well, the dances coming up in time to talk about that right now because of Cardi. Yes, no, I have to go. Jonas. Don't do. Not again. Privacy. Please Jonas you're here. Then where am I? Telling you awar- Jonas was supposed to disappear from the bathroom and catty should be here. Not you. You'll nice Mars. That didn't come out. Right. I'm just saying this is all different from how it was before except for still in detention detention. This is in Richmond class Mars enrichment. We're good students really is backwards here. Look at the Scottish, the spaceship, you say you were on click this. Yes, yes. That's the mono one. You do remember. No, that's a sketch of the toy spaceship you've had any room since kit. Yeah. It was a toy. But Mr. Pruitt built the real thing to over Pruitt, always building something, Mr. Q just-in-time. I'm a let you handle us. You might have to send him to the nurse. Mr. Q, Mars, brain seem to have hit glitch would seems to be the problem marzo. I'm not telling you anything that. I do something wrong L, please. Don't pretend like you're my friend now shoot yourself. I mean, if you change your mind. Randall toothpick read HAMAs to Q. Hey Marsh pick. It's so could see buddy anyone can figure this out. It's you figure what out. Okay. Well, a year and a half ago. Our friends started disappearing and turns out there are being sent to Pruitt print where they would train to live on Oliver, Pruitt's Mars colony. But one of okay, no, -rupt it. We skate the plan on a spacecraft, and we were lost for ages before we got sucked into something and ended up here appear isn't here anymore, and I need your help. Okay. I'll help you. You remember all of that? No. But you never lied to me Marce. If you say you were in a different time line where we lived in a colony Marce than who am I to say, it's not true. Wait, I have proof that on not at Saint pick your taller than you were the first time this happened and voices deeper to cool. I mean, cool. Do you have any series top of my head could be a wormhole a bridge in the time space continuum in Richmond. Dwellers? Let's get started who we miss caddy caddy's gone. Seeing him to see her. We waiting on. Shape p MC gallon ruler of enrichment, man. You're terrific riding that bike Patel smooth as silk. Why are you talking to me like that JP? Hey, super job of when that big old pothole, stop it. You're talking like, I'm a baby or a crazy person. Yes. Okay. Truth is I was elected to ride with you. We'll sign by Aurora want to be technical signed. Why? Because everyone thought I'd be best equipped to shut you down. If you really. Flipped out. Ep. I swear not crazy hun. Not saying who are we all know how much Katzman? Means to you. And maybe all this Mars, colony talk is all some kind of wishful thinking, meaning what? Meaning maybe it's easier to believe she was on a rocket ship to Mars than to believe. She just one away moved on. That's not what this is. What is it? I don't know. Why are you stopping Cup stairs its galaxy clusters getting good night's sleep? Your brain will be less less space in the morning. We one other half of a mile to go. Now, we're here at your place. Hello. I live in this fancy apartment building snap out of this is the real world. I'm. Well, I have the keys my pocket. Let's see this work. Is like a palace. How big is TV and look at all those gaming systems. Mono is that you Mudgee. Sweet welcome home. How was your day? That's why the Huck much mystique. If you haven't seen me in a year. Feels that way. You. You're still dressed up going to the restaurant. Let's you're no I have a class to teach tonight class applications Gonda mechanics, you teach college science, and somehow always make it home in time to have dinner waiting for your. That's unbelievable. If you say, so oh, I do have some bad news though, you'll father call after my father. He's going to some conference out of the country. You won't be able to visit him next weekend. My father. I know it's just you and me most of the time. Mas. But he loves you. And just like me he knows that you Eddie special one day all of it. Plate. I I don't want to be late class few soon. I love you much. I love you too. Hey, it's me Marce sitting in my bedroom, which is not my bedroom. But is my bedroom. I have no earthly idea. What's going on one minute? I'm on the space craft in your on Mars and the next. Did I go back in time? Is this another dimension? Or something did I? The everything else was a dream. And this is reality starting to wonder if I just imagined the whole saying this life is so. Different. He -partment is. Unreal. My mom has great job. And Pruitt sounds like Pruitt is like a real dad to me. But your not here county. Wherever I am. I sure wish you here with me. Are you on Mars in this dimension or dream, or whatever this is? I'm going to find your caddy wherever you are Mars out. What is that sound? It's coming from outside the window. Hugh. What are you doing here? Something wait where are you going? Trone come back. Kids. Yeah. All of the Pruitt here. Maybe you're listening in the back seat of your parents car on your phone on talking to you to invite you to my school through it. Prep in the heart of Gail island. It's a wonderful creation of technology and progress Pruitt prepped is the school of the future. But it's already here just waiting for dreamers. Create. Talking. Moths will be classified hope to see you. So. Two stars back again pick that you. Great. Thanks for coming over this morning. I've got good news. You found caddy not yet. But I know now, I'm not going crazy. I never thought you were going crazy. Maybe a little maybe a little. So how exactly did you learn that? You're not crazy. Simple your pet drone showed up outside my window last night. My pet drone drone was right here pick he's zoomed up like he had to tell me or warned me about. But when I opened up the window. He's off. But maybe pet is the wrong word he used to reassert Valence strong for Pruitt, but reprogrammed him to be your best friend pretty awesome. Not really. What? Did you hear what I said your best friend was a flying robot? Marce? What are you doing? What do you mean? I mean, you know, I don't like when people don't tell me the truth, especially my friends. It's confusing and it makes me sad. But I am telling you the truth drone was here right outside my bedroom window there was no drone Mars. You're making it up. But in school, you said, you believed me you said, you trusted me. I didn't wanna hurt your feelings Mars. Then you don't believe any of it. No offense. But would you know, I mean, I doubt in myself for minute there. But now, I know for sure it was real I just have to figure out how I got here. And why? Marsk come with me, you need to take your mind off all these fantasies. They aren't fantasies. Come mars. Our friends are waiting waiting wear some place wonderful. Wonderful. Ever. Hey brody. Smells the same. But the games look different. Wow. All the games are virtual reality. Come on Mars. Everybody's over there watching Jonas play virtual breaking entering. We'll just have fun and forget all talk about drones spacious, and like you said fantasies exactly watch this one more. Stephan. He JP Aurora. Various our Bill in this marzipan same perhaps perfectly sane Aurora. Right marce. Connect talk to you guys for minute Dona. I'm a little busy. How about how much longer will that be? Our pretty skilled sorry. This can't wait Mars. We discuss sorry pick not letting this go this about caddy being missing. Or is it about the Mars colony both? Then I'll pass so much for good night's sleep. Seymour's? I told you can you guys keep it down a clue the next level. No more level. Doing Mars hands off the goggles to me up. Stop. You're gonna make me. That was not cool Jonas's, right? Not telling you the truth, we were on a spaceship. Well, most of us. Look Moore's I love your imagination. I'm not imagining it Aurora, and this is not just about caddy, whatever it's about. I don't wanna be a part of it. I just want to play the game. But I know that if we put our heads together. What is on the screen level fourteen? Lim fourteen. Forget it even I can't get passed it. What's the location? It's it's the planet more so great. It's a colony on Mars. What do you have to do to beat it? The break in past the gates, and there are these crazy. Tar Tomar tsars. Tar grades target grades or water bears microscopic creatures that looked like weird bears almost anything except a Mars. The huge scary. But they're kind of my friends like I want road one across Mars. This is really going too far Kelly. What Jonas I'll make a deal with with all of you. If I can conquer the Mars colony level breaking and entering it will all come with me tonight to Pruitt prep, Pruitt prep. Are you going to see your pops or something do you accept the better or not? Aurora. This is silly. It's fine collusion. This'll be over Mars. You're gonna crash burn on entry wouldn't be my first crash in the planet. Mars. Let's do this out swept mccart put on those goggles. That's our show heading to the circus realistic for landing. Okay. Mars. Let's see who can get into the Carling come the tardy grades. All around me. I can't him out to the game. Come on. Track. Joan think you can do better. I'm not even carrying anyone on my back. This time. Coming for me. What shall I do? Those Tara grades love Mars rock now, he's put a few here like. And the game that's cheating. It's. Daisy you beat it. How did you not do that? I told you I lived it all tonight of the Barra duck Berga figure this out once and for all. It's eight five where are they? They should be your the doc by now. Hello mars. Oh, hey to see you there. Oh, Laura JP. Human stand behind that shock all along just waiting for you. And now you're here. Yes. Where's Jonas Jonas wasn't able to get away from his parents? It's just us. Oh, too bad. We could've used this help getting cross the island. Not really what do you mean? I mean, we're not here to go to prep with you. You're not now we're here to stop you from going, but I won the bet. And that's why we came tonight because a deal's a deal. But this is all wrong Mars wrong like veggies. Nachos wrong. What's wrong about trying to find the truth about where I am? And how I got here and how could trying to find catty be wrong because it's messing up here. Life marce. You have everything a great apartment could creates a successful. Mom, who loves you, a dad who's a world famous billionaire, and most importantly, you have us. What about where I came from? I know it was real. I saw droning. Let's go home ours. It's creepy here. It's starting to feel that way. What am I call your mom? No. I'm not going home. I'm going to prep. Where's the ferry? There's no very Marce. There never was one. Yes. There was it had a hologram Oliver Pruitt and let it go. There's ferry we can take a little both last time. I know you weren't there arose. But we borrowed this rowboat that was tied up. It's over Marce. This fantasy is over fantasy. That's the same word pick used. Can we leave Morris? It's really dark and I'm getting scared. You know, what guys are right? I'm sorry. I scared you pick since the code red. I've been all over the place, but I'm done. Really? Yeah. I won't pull you guys to any more of my fantasies. Let's all get our bikes net. Home finally making you lead the way JP what's the road. What are you doing stay away? You're making a mistake. I don't know what's gotten into you guys have to do. I have to find out the fruit and fine Coty. Would it hurt me? Right. Those are friends say look like my friends. They don't. Like my friends. His current going the wrong way. No motorboat. They're coming. KP? To help you. What did I believe come on faster faster? Don't make this on yourself. Leap be alot. Best friends. Let us hope stay away. Stay. Rony? What are you doing? What's going on this lace? Catty mars. Yes. Just caddy. I hear you. Best robot ever dot com. Ex-?
S2 E10: See You In The Stars
"Missing. She's gone. It's what you just appeared off the face of the earth. Your special, your soul, special. Chico friends. Ask yourself why you're friends went missing, maybe you all the reason they disappeared. Usually disaster but missing. There's nobody else. Shake goodbye. My friend c. you sued. On. Different planet. The first ever stand in this. Thank you for covering two hundred fifty million miles to find me. Impress me. Hello, Mars. It's wonderful to finally meet you face to face Oliver Pruitt. I should've known sorry about the wild Todd grade ride. I need you to come here on your own. You did that. You made him run a special bond with the creatures. Seems you and I have that in common MAs. Why did you bring me here? Why did you send the message on my toy spaceship? Because it was time. This was always meant to be you. 'cause all the students you over. I was right. You started that shake a better world. Starting fresh volcanic soil can grow crops right on the planet. We might even be able to create an atmosphere. No more helmets off of, okay, no people live here. I never imagined that the other volcanoes cause much destruction. I truly then that supposed to be your thing. Imagination, you imagine a call colony the on Mars. You imagine taking it from their homes and using them to build your new world, but you couldn't imagine a way to keep them safe. I did everything I could do because I think bail you left us just like you left the first call. I would never leave you Mars up saying things like that. You took my friends and then you brought them here even after you promised who wouldn't want them with you. Eventual. But why? Why go through all of this to get me here are on the spacecraft Mars or special? No, I'm not. I'm just the guy who gets in trouble all the time. You're a lot more than that to me. The key to all of this Mars you always have been. It doesn't make any sense. How is special YM is so important because you're my son. Well, it's the dot of a new day podcast. Listeners axle here broadcasting from the colony command center where I am pleased to report a rural and I are in control. That's right kids. The more sense have taken over the colony. Most of Pruitt's are locked up in the emergency shelter where they can't even get to us just like they locked me in a rural Ghana love that. Of course, you might point out that it took a volcanic eruption nearly wrecking the place for us to get here. And you might also point out that what were in charge of is basically a big mess of ashen rock. But hey, can we joy for a little while now it's time to figure out a way off this planet. We're gonna find a way. Somehow. Prep come in. There's a new sheriff in town. This is saying in the in the Martian control center. Aurora? Who do you want to send to check out the food storage facility? I can't spare. You might people right now. They're all working on finding a way off the planet there over four hundred kids locked in the shelter. They're going to need food. Never seem worried about feeding us when we martians living in Laba to get over at Aurora, this place needs help. We're in this together. Now we're not gonna make it if you don't trust us. I know what I'm doing. I'm an actual leader. I make decisions. I don't just walk around listening to people's feelings. See, you have feelings that you wish you could get my head to find out. I need to get here. Where you going county to work Aurora, Ivan, say you could. I'm not Mars. I don't do everything you asked me to do is that with this is about Mars deal even care about him, or do you just use him when you need him to come save you? Where is he? He'll tell you truth. No. No, you know what I said goodbye to him. You looking for you, I'll find him. No, I don't trust you out there. You'll open the shelter door. Let everybody out. You stay here Aurora day. Come with me MAs. I want to show you some. I'm not going anywhere with you. Please son. Let me explain. Don't call me that you're not my father. This is another trick. Another lie to trick. I met her mother many years ago when I was building my laboratories in India that it was a busy time of my life, and I was selfish. All those years. We were struggling to pay the rent. I offered to help you know your mother MAs. She's a very proud woman, say decided to kidnap, her son sent him to another planet. Our song, your mother eventually agreed with my unconventional plan. She finally realized who have a destiny. You are special MAs. I've watched you. I've seen your bravery, your loyalty, your leadership. I don't wanna hear this from you. Then let me show you. Stand back, please, some MAs, meet demand, new watt. Have another sip here. I knew the time I come. We needed an emergency exit. Do you recognize the design? It looks just like toy spaceship. When you seven, I came to visit to meet you, but you were sleeping. The toy spaceship was sitting by bedside. You have no idea how much it meant to me seeing you had a replica of my spacecraft knowing you felt the connection. But your mother wouldn't allow me to wake. You took the model. I've had it on my desk ever since it's why I used to send you the message. Even when I couldn't be part of your life, you apart of mine, I built the ship for you. I built all of this for you. Give me a moment to open it. I want you to see it. Caddy. I hope you can hear what I'm thinking because I'm thinking he's hard as I can. I don't know if this will work, but if you can hear me find a way to get to old colony fluid is here bring to fix JP Aurora. I knew. Marce what is the caddy? I know our Mars toothpick. He's in the old colony with Pruitt. We have to get him. Pick can travel contri-, but how are we going to get over those cliffs? You think you're going somewhere guys over aura? Mars has found Oliver Pruitt. He's in the old colony. He wants us to go, how do I know? This isn't a trick. You don't have to come if you don't want to nice, try Kathi. You're not going without me might have a way off this planet. Axel, what's boss you think you could get one of the altering Rovers up and running. Do you even have to ask great, let's go find Mars and Pruitt actually, no, I'm just starting to like it here. Okay. I guess the old gag is going on a road trip. Welcome aboard. The Manu one laws test out the controls. It'll be like, living out the dreams. You how my teams. My teams were not like this. Do you realize what you've done on just getting started? You have to understand. I'm always looking at the big picture and what is the big picture that's going to take off and let the new colony died? Just like the old one did not by myself. You'll going to come with me. I don't want any of this. I don't care if I'm your son are conc through this on my own moss. I need someone like you, someone who can dream big and convince others to dream alongside of you no matter how crazy it might seem, where would we go back to earth? No, I can't go back there, but I have the perfect location picked out for next colony. What about everyone left here? I came here because your message said that you can help them. You said that you have the answers to our problems. I said, I had the answer to your problems MAs, and I do. What are you doing last team teams. Stop accounts l. let me all afraid. I can't do that. MAs nitrous falling. We need. I'm not leaving without by. You can't to me again. Understand at your funk, just as the world will on me, the man. The man. Sake. How do you think we cannot drive this Rover? So close to the edge of the cliff? I'd rather not become some hard grades, pancake breakfast. Sorry, JP it's getting dark and I've never driven a Rover before or anything else for that matter. Clearly doing my best Aurora from ours. Well, I could dry no saints your trust me again, it must be doing that. You hear my thought. I don't need to use my special abilities to know you're only thinking about yourself. Our time will down think I'm gonna be sick. Ten don't look down JP crop a little faster. Caddy the sun's going down. And if we're stuck spending that item this Rover, well, let's say the freeze to death. I really rather few. Well, what thing to say you're supposed friends, Aurora. There we go again with hurt feelings. At least I have feelings aura Dopp Sieg not you think I don't what he pick, is that a meteor shower up ahead. It's too low to immediately shower. JP is possible Kansas roped again shirts. Possible canes can rough for days Crosby stock fish. Lov. He's everyone. Okay. That's it. I gotta get out of this Rover. JP don't move. You move too fast and we go tumbling off this lead while we can stay here. I'll climb out very slowly and try to stabilize us how much on everyone. I can't see anything out here. It's so dark. Occupied roller from phone over the cliff guys climb out. Pick Krog your crutches. We gotta get you out of your first Trone hang onto me. Here we go. Why does he go seriously? Aurora? Okay. I'm out JP. You still have a Rover stabilized them to go now. Go ahead of Rura you to prove your better for me again. Okay, fine. I'll go. I'm out return Aurora. Here we go. It's. Grab my hand. I can't see. Can you see me? No, it's dark. I'm reaching for your hand, but I can't find it. Aurora. You're going to have to let me in your head. I can hear your thoughts on no reaching. Go. I'm sorry for what you've been going to get out of this. Almost fair. Gotcha. Scarred. Never make it to the old colony and we can't make it back to the new one either. Pick, you must have an idea. Maybe we could bring up a do Hickey your Bill. The thing of there's nothing here. JP just rocks and dust. Cats. I don't know. I'm sorry. I'm like, this freezing to desert cars caddy. Where are you going? I just I need to think. Hey, Mars, it's catty. I don't know. I just it's bad. I want you to know. I tried to get to you. I heard you just like I've always heard you so clearly in my head. I did my best here. I tried to help everyone, but I guess it wasn't meant to be anyway. I don't know if anyone will ever find this reporting, but. Mars, if they do, I want you to know that. It's the body want. It's Mars. Anyone either. Here. Mr. tried to force me to leave the planet. We couldn't let that happen. This spacecraft isn't supposed to be able to land here. Made a few adjustments with some help from me after we snuck the Royal they had never co-chair for you d- toothpick can't be wasting fuel. You're on the planet. The ships gotta give right back up now. Sounds good to me. Let's get on board set of course for earth. I told you get your homework, where's Mr.? Pruitt is he onboard pros been time in cargo bay. Six, I'm done taking a frie- heap. You locked him up. Sure. Did a great. Let's throw him off. The ship works for me. We can't go home without him. We have no resources, no way to see everybody leaving behind here. Oliver Pruitt can make people. Listen, Oliver Pruitt can save Mars. Fart. Let's go guys everyone on the ship. Marce I'm getting off here. I'm not leaving my colony. Somebody's gonna make sure we hang on until you come back with hell. I was able to contact the colony. A rescue team is on the way Ryan tell my people will send out. Okay. I'm sorry for everything. I'm staying to you. This is where. For you? Sure. Julia. I cock back to the way things. I mean, I wrote a Taty great up a five thousand meter, cliff wool? Yes. Who did goodbye Lawson London. Anytime we need a horse, you give me a call. Okay, count on it. Julia saved. A lot of people didn't. Yes, we did. Toothpick. Joanie are gonna miss working with you? That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me. Moore's said the Rockettes, although you guys got to get on board now. Okay. Everybody. Let's go have car planet to save. Quashed for confirmed shit entering deep space, power. So Mars, what are you most excited to see back on earth? My mom, I neu- DEA how much I miss her. I was gonna say not show supreme, but that's pretty good answer. What about you auroral I must say ocean, rain going outside out a helmet on guys. Where's catty? Mars, there's something I need to tell. You s we don't say anything until we were space. What are you talking about Moore's? There's a call coming in. Aimar's I guess you realized I'm not on board. Cat. You're not here for coming back for, you know, you're not, you can't. I'm sorry. I lied. I knew you wouldn't leave. If I told you you wanted to see behind. I think I'm here on Mars for reason. I felt it when I was going through those tunnels during the eruption. And even before that, hearing all those kids in the colony, knowing they need someone to listen to help. I can't leave you carry. Not again here not leaving me this time. Are I decided to stay. But I don't know what will be back or if all back, like you said, we never did have good timing, but I believe in you Mars an I will see each other again. Through to have cats, your great leader. Thanks, Jamie. I don't wanna say goodbye. I know, but this is where I belong. Hang on here in the colony as long as we can or counting on you. I know you won't let us down. You never do mar Patel. Thomas. County by Mars. Ida earth for me and tell my parents. I love him Addy out. You, okay. Mars. Yeah, Aurora. Let's go home. I'm trusting you Mr. Pruitt but don't try anything in q. toothpick. You let him out. We need him to get in contact with Prue presses who we can't keep him locked up six months. He's lucky. He's on board at all. I never tried to hurt any of you. Aurora. Really. How about when you split from the space station and set it to explode? I didn't do that. Why would I want to blow up my own space station to make sure we couldn't leave to keep track on the planet? I promise you all it wasn't me. You martians the only ones blow things up. We didn't do it. We needed that space station to get home. Well, we saw the thing blow. So if you didn't do it and he didn't do it, the who did prove this is the Manu one come in. You there. Hugh copy, why aren't they responding? Let me take the monitor. What is this single. There's no signal from earth. Leave you with the fate of the earth hanging in the balance, but we hope you enjoyed season two of the unexplainable disappearance of Mars Patel. Mars Patel's written and produced by Jenny Turner hall David Christman, Benjamin Strauss, and Chris, Terry, Benjamin Strauss. As the executive producer, the show's head writer is David cries Christman season. Two was directed by Michelle Tatton sound design is by Chris -tarian Alan Friedman with original music by Sean Pierce. Chris, Terry podcast is recorded at trading eights music and Fram New Jersey by Chris and mixed and edited by Chris tarry in Maplewood New Jersey. Mars Patel owes much of its success to its wonderful cast of young actors, including Natalie male is caddy Kate Wolfson, JP white. Ralph is toothpick Carter minor Jonas and giant chatroom. As Moore's Patel season to introduced future stars Riley McDonald, Julia, Brandon SIMS as Ryan Shane, Epstein, Petroleo axel, Courtney CHU is daisy and Murad O'Neill as the great Oliver Pruitt is voiced by the terrific. Michael pearlstein additional voices by Sonali Gandhi, the Lana ransom Tope it's and me David Castano special. Thanks to panoply antibodies Emily Shapiro. If you've loved listening to the show with your family, please spread the word and be sure to check out the ghost of Jessica majors. That's a new podcast coming out soon on the panoply network. It's from the creators of Mars Patel. Just kamajors wasn't eleven year old when she died in eighteen seventy five. Now coming back as a ghost in two thousand seventeen. It's just the beginning of her story. Well, what is we're getting across signal again to call any rescue team to colony command. The command center. Go ahead reston to pick up tatty Delina lion, daisy. Doozy can't be a negative. I gave you the coordinates alliance tonight for ordinance. I can see where the ship landed, but what here it's impossible to Andrew Ryan waiting to rescue. Oh. Best robot ever dot com. Ex-.
S3 EP2: Unreal
"Hello podcast listeners. If you're like me, you want to hear the full story of what happens to Mars Patel and his friends find out how the story unfolds as well. As the gripping conclusion with Pinna, what's Pinna. Well, it's the only place to stream new episodes of Mars Patel season three here all of season two as well as tons of other awesome, podcasts music and audio books. Find your next favorite audio show on pinup. That's P I n N A. Try Pinna free for thirty days by visiting the app store today. Terry, one of the co creators Moore's Patel. We're so excited to bring you the amazing conclusion of the Mars Patel story. We wanted to let you know that season three would not have been made without the support of our friends. So please if you wanna stream the entire season head over to pin dot FM. Start listening today if you'd like to own a piece of the show forever we've made the entire series available on an amazing box set of CDs by the entire series or just season three by itself. Check the show notes for details or visit Mars Patel dot com. We hope you enjoy the thrilling conclusion wars Patel. Thank you so much for sticking with us. And now with the show. We need. I'm here. Something's not right. I know none of this is right. What is this place? Where are you? Kamar making your according everyone loves you do this. You can't hear her. Catty? She's. Voices coming control any. So you're talking to. To see either. Yourself. You see what you're doing the water? Let us before someone gets hurt. Like can't stop rowing. You're really slumming. Right next. You can just hop right? On over. Cindy's shoes with day away J fee? What are you going to do that or Patel hit me with it? I'm losing away. No Coty, go caddy. I've is not here Mars, and what you're doing is very inappropriate. Rony way. Mars, the water the feud it sound chilly. Forty nine degrees. His home to eleven species of sharks. I'd advise you to sit down before you capsize your vote. He understands too don't you more? I understand what Aurora that your friends need you to get on this motorboat and head back to the mainland that you've been acting unwell that we've had our adventure. And now it's time to go home caddy will turn up. She always does shape e give me your hand Boris climb aboard. Okay. You go. Hey, this reminds me of that time we all went flooding on floods hill. I tried to jump once led to other halfway down the hill. Oh, I remember that day too. Yeah. We were really flying. We have this epic wipeout on mailbox. Classic aurora. Remember how I knocked out my front tooth. Sure. You have the gap in your mouth. Really you. Remember? It course, kept stickier tongue through the whole until you finally got your fixed. That wasn't a roar of that was Hugh. That's why you've a scar above your lip. I don't know who you guys are. I know one thing for certain I'm outta here. Gotta get you. Gotta find caddy. Gotta make it to prep into his fourth. It's the only way to reach caddy while grinches how friendly target we need one Muffin. Are you hear my Ben? He moving capable whoever. They are. There aren't your friends. There. It is put its here. Never thought. I'd feel safer going into pro prep than hanging out with my friends. Get in all of our Pruitt, if Mark Patel your son. Come on come on. Mars. Hugh. What are you doing here cut the small talk? Mr. I'm here to see my father. Why didn't you say so come on? Approve prep Mars. I'm sure I'll ever will. Where are you going to the control centre control centre of what the ship ship Mars? I'm not sure I the cockpit the place. I never mind. Mars come back here. This is where I wasn't at blasted off. What's the cold? What's? Okay. No co necessary. It's not the spacecraft in ordinary classroom. Where am I? Come on Pruitt show yourself. Tony what's going on? Gotta reach catty. Help me. Careful that's expensive Celli just hurled into the wall. Mr. Pruitt, Hello malls. What a lovely an unexpected viz. Wanna know, it's unexpected whatever this crazy mixed up places who are those people pretending to my friends. I'm not sure I understand. I don't understand either. All I know is that the other world is out there because I've seen Rony in heard caddy and did you shave your beard? Mir ticket back to Morris to find caddie. Did you say Mars as the fourth planet from the sun? Yes, you Phakathi there or she follow me there. Whatever as you know, I do have plans to colonize the red planet eventually, but for someone to be living there. The many is all know caddy. Is there I'm telling she's. Hey, Mars, catty. Hey, got your messages. Sorry wasn't able to call back. No phones the first week Europe uproot prep where else would I be? I heard your voice on the water. You sent me a message through Trone who's Trone. I heard you heard me how in my head the where I always hear you. If you say so there, you are marris. Hey, buddy, thought we'd lost you pay pick Aurora know what's up Gad's is Mars filling your head with crazy stories about drones and Martian colonies, I'm so glad you're all here. It's going to be wonderful when you're all tending Pruitt prepped together next year, clearly hall of us, of course, and Jonas to your a team right moss. I. Catty hull Mars Mars. I don't know what's going on with you. But I can't wait until we're all here together. It'll be just like the old days. But even better the six of us kickin butts and taking names, and you help me make my plans for a mission to the planet. Mas patel. Are we good what I always dreamed for you moss? My son. Breaking free. You'll meant for great things. Moms always known it. If you just allow it to happen. Give yourself over to it. No. Is it real Mars? Not a bit real. None of few are real this is it might life. Stop harse. No, not you. All right. My friend. Father. This is it might life Coty set to break out for noth-. Mar freaking out I want out of this. I want. Good afternoon bars Patel. Computer? We're we're am. I. For the money. Of course, I'm fooling the ship. None of that was real. Computer? Yes. The where's the other? Passengers roaring JP in toothpick Pruitt other human passengers left in escape 'oughts. They made it out. One of these things attached to my face ears. The no I mean, the sensors Secca my forehead putting signals in my brain make me believe in a world, computer women. The last time I left the maneuver one yuko rooted six hundred forty nine days of six hundred forty nine days. So that means I've been in that computer program for seven months who would do this to me. And and why would they do it? That. Flow. Computer off? Hello. If someone's aboard the ship you better show yourself got up. Eliminate a plight manual in my hand, I'm not afraid to use it. I'm glad to see you too. Don't look at me like that. I don't have any treats. Dwindle. What do you? See? There's nothing out there. There's. That means I can go home for real coca get settled. No bring it up manual, then it's we're setting a course earth. I've never flown one of these things, but it can't be so hard, right? Don't answer that meter launched the booster earth. Earth coming home launching stoops. Three. Systems. Sisters. He later. Yes. Mars Patel in my allies all signed to. Yes. On earth. Yes. A cornfield near Snohomish Washington to be exact not before from whom cupcake you'll about. Glad to hear it. What is that? JP? You're alive told you prove peck trolley, I knew it. I knew you'd make back to earth. Somehow. That's why program to satellite to alert me. If anything came the atmosphere convenient of doodle and close to home Ida feeling out happened to enough dragging. I feel how coming on that sounds. How can I sure it's you the real you is that a trick question? I know grown, but I don't have to show you my birthmark. Do I quick JP? What was I eating when I puked on joy, Lupo, MAC and cheese and fruit punch and gross pick. Where were you in? Julia. When the volcano erupted on Mars whether tower I almost died, but didn't give me a trivia question. Something about the obvious plot holes and Star Trek three. It's it's really you. I'm so glad to see you guys. Glad as we are to see you. Don't you stand there? Let's talk it out ways reassure onto by various pieces of spacecraft equipment made of explosive materials that are currently releasing smoke. I should just take this hug outside comes like a plan. We're gonna be one more fun. But I don't hug tar greats. So these things stuck to my head had me thinking this, computer. Simulation was real. Easy mars. You've been in space for a long time. Wobbly legs me grabby. Right. Just lean on me. I got you. Thanks fifty new insulation. You guys were super creepy like super creepy like vampire creepy worse, body's natural creepy. Cool. So where Aurora my thought? And Oliver Pruitt. Pick. You wanna take this one you talk. I gotta drive. It's a long story. Moore's hang on pick. Did you say you got to drive you mean on your bike? Is that funny? This is my truck I bought it. This monster truck is your coming up Mars cupcake in the bath or. Science for real. He's very good driver. It's true. Not a single moving violation yet. Get in. Okay. Okay. I'm getting in. Everyone. Hang onto your tardy. Great. Weird. What was? A kid is advertising legal services. How can a kid advertise legal services? Kids are advertising everything and this dot a little girl. Broadcasting the news on the radio. Might wanna take a look at all. The other drivers kids driving cars. J p. Where are the address there? Best robot ever dot com.
The Music of Mars Patel
"The music of Mars Patel. Everybody's Chris, Terry. I'm one of the co-creators Mars Patel and the guy that's behind the music as it were, and we get a lot of questions. A lot of requests for people who enjoy the Mars Patel music, and I can't tell you how great that makes me feel as a musician. I've been a musician most of my life and it's just so exciting to hear that not only the story which is so wonderful to create an and. See so many people enjoy, but also the fact that that they think that the music sort of also worked so well with the story and we thought it'd be really fun in your long. Wait for season three. If maybe we did a lap zone here on the sort of behind the scenes behind the music behind the Mars Patel music and maybe tell you a little bit about it. Maybe tell you how some of it was created and then sort of let maybe some of the clips play from some of the seasons, two seasons and hopefully will you know, help bridge that gap between season two and the wait for season three. We're in the middle of writing season three rate now my partners. So there's myself. David cries, Christman Benjamin Strauss, and Jenny Turner hall, and the four of us together created the show and and create these stories and everything that you've come to love Mars Patel. So it's very exciting for us. Yes, hopefully. This is a little bit of fun. And what I wanna do is kind of explain a couple of the key songs that that that are featured on Mars Patel. Also be able to sort of let a lot of plow. So you have a way of playing it in one sort of big chunk. This podcast is not a CD so us no. Individual tracks. I was trying to figure out the best way to do this. And I thought we sort of do it. As kind of learning experience, but then also great listening experience. So this is the music of Mars Patel with out any of the Mars Patel stuff. So. Bliss, I guess the best best way is just to just jump in and start with the original theme. So I'm gonna play that for you. Now, the original theme from season one, and then I'll give you a little backstory behind it here. It is. So there it is. That's the original theme from season one of Mars Patel. And when I sat down to write it, we were not very far in the production part of the show. I think we had maybe come up with the first couple episodes and maybe written a little bit of the story. But I as a musician, I should say a little bit about my background. I'm a, you know, a bass player in a writer, been a musician for most of my life and writing always sort of taking a bit of a behind the scenes thing for me. And so when it came time to do more Patel, it was sort of a great meeting of two things that I love to do, which is tell stories, right stories, gray stories on also do music. So I've got a little bit of background doing some music for film TV and also other things. But mainly I'm a jazz bass player and have a bunch of albums out under my own name, that kind of thing. So I wanted to sort of come up. With a theme that would maybe inspire us a little bit to sort of come up with the sound of the show, like, what would it sound like? And I sat down and wrote that piece that you just heard, played bass on it. The rest of it is programmed with the exception of the violin which is played by a really great friend of mine who lives around the corner from me names Zach, Brock, you can look him up really great famous violinist and he came over to my house and I had written the theme and he just played it and that was that was very simple. Like a lot of things as I'm sure most of, you know, when you're creating something, I mean, maybe you're maybe you've done some art projects or whatever you do maybe did something in school. You know, for the adults out there, we all know what it's like to sort of create something. And sometimes the best stuff happens sort of by accident. I would have to say that that theme was kind of one of those things. I didn't really know what I wanted it to sound like. And so you sort of have to ask the question. Does the theme come and in the show comes or does, or do they work together or just one inspire the other? And it's always. An interesting thing when you're creating something from nothing and in that was that was that listening to it now, it's interesting to me because it does have that kind of really rough, indie sort of sound very done quickly. I think maybe took me a day. And when it came time for season two after March Patel had become somewhat of success. I wanted to redo it and I wanted to sort of up the game a little bit and make it sound a little bit more like it's suited the the success of the show. So I went back and a lot of the music in Mars Patel is written by myself or my writing partner and longtime friend named Sean Pierce who we're going to hear from an a bit. He lives in LA. I live in New York and we call right a lot of the stuff. He writes a lot of the incidental music. You hear behind the show and I did the themes. So it's a great collaboration. We've collaborated on many projects, many albums for years and years and years and Mars Patel just happened to be this thing that you know he, he does a lot of work in film and TV, so fluid to LA Los Angeles and. We sat down and we worked on sort of coming up with new version of the theme. And if you listen closely, you'll hear it's the exact same baseline. I don't know if if you guys out there if you're old enough to sort of understand what the baseline is, it's like a guitar. It plays a lot lower, and it only has a few four strings instead of six. So what we did is we we needed to be the same length. So we kept the exact baseline. I didn't actually play anything new and then recreated the song all around it. So you'll hear me singing there. There's a voice now instead of violin doing the melody like that. So let me play it free. Now you'll see if you can hear the differences peering back toback Rio. So there it is. That's the season two team a probably do a new one for season. Three just doesn't other update to keep it fresh and it's always exciting to see sort of what you can come up with. That's, you know, an extension of the original idea. So the only thing that is live meaning in that recording, meaning meaning, the only thing that isn't done in the computer is my baseline and my vocals, which I'm not a great singer, but the computer these days allows us to tune things. I know if you guys understand when something's in tune, I'm sure most of you do if you taking piano lessons or guitar lessons, you have to learn to tune your car, or if you're seeing you have to be in tune with the note that you're singing. So on my computer here, I have a a button that just allows me to sing not all that well in, it'll tune my voice for me to the pitch that I give it as. Reference. So I tell them that this song is in c minor and I sing and that it will make sure that the notes that I sing are in tune with the key of c minor for a bass player like me that isn't used to singing. It's a great way to make it sound nice and big. Like I know what I'm doing. So most of the stuff that you here today on Mars Patel has been created inside the computer. So we do a lot of the composition inside of a program that allows us to choose various instruments that that allow us to sort of make up, you know, without having a real band in the studio, allows us to sort of use violins or bases or drums guitar, all that kind of stuff, and the computer is just playing them for us. So a lot of modern day composition you here uses the computer like that. So the other piece of music that you hear a lot in Mars Patel is after the sort of introduction of the episode, there is something called teaser music. Which is is this one here? I'm sure you guys have heard it. Let me play it. We'll talk about it. So you can hear that that was also an update from season one. I think I did the exact same again, use the exact same baseline and recreated what we did in season. One replace that with this for season two. Again, just updating stuff as the show became more popular. And as the production techniques got a little bit more advanced, I wanted to make sure that the music kept pace. So I don't know how many of you out there are. When you watch a movie or TV show how aware you are of the music. If you listen next time you're watching TV show with your parents or if you're you're or or even the adults listening. Next time you're watching a movie sitting in a movie theater, pay close attention to the music because it's funny that you originally part of Mars Patel. When we first had down to sort of start putting the show together, we actually asked ourselves, do we wanna have music? And it's sorta hard to imagine Mars Patel without the music now. But in the original early early days, we weren't totally sure. And we got a couple pieces of music and tried it behind, and we weren't sure sort of how that was going to play. I mean, we all sort of understood how it worked in TV show and movie, but in terms of something that you're just listening to, would it work if we treated it just like a TV show or movie, and that's sort of where the the Genesis of Mars Patel on the sound of the show formed its own direction. We went through a bunch of music and it wasn't really working and then and then I happened to grab a piece of music from my friend. Sean Pierce mentioned earlier who him and I had done a bunch of work together on probably dozens and dozens of albums over the years, and I played the music behind one of the opening scenes in its win when Mars and Cattier are are trapped in the closet. During the code red. And there's this really beautiful guitar music that comes in and we played, it's kind of over the seam. And that was the moment where we realized this scene just went from being very intimate to being extremely intimate and touching and made you feel something. So next time you're listening to a TV show or watching TV short watching movie paid into the music and ask yourself what it does for you. How does it make you feel? And that's one of the important things we always ask ourselves when we're talking about music from ours Patel. The music should back up what's happening onscreen or in this case in your ears, and it should make you feel almost more of the intent should help bolster the intent of the writing and of the acting and everything that's going on and make you sort of feel something in a way that's a little bit unnoticed. So what I'm going to do right now, I'm gonna play you some. It's one of my favorite pieces from the show, and it's the very last thing you here at the end of season one and the end of season two, I believe when our good friend, David custom bomb is reading the credits for the end of the season, and it was a piece of music that my partner Shaun Pearson written, and I'm just gonna start playing it now over top of this one talking to you, see if you recognize, have you listened to the entire show all the way through the very, very end. You listen to somebody just reading the credits and he was to me now and how my voice slows down a little bit. Music. Now playing in the background. All of a sudden what I'm saying becomes even that much more. Felt. Even more see important, but possibly interesting be it makes you listen a little bit closer. Maybe now all of a sudden you're thinking, wow, what is he really saying? How much opposed to feel and you listen to Sean, beautiful music behind this and how it's underscoring what I'm saying. And that's exactly what this is called. It's called underscoring music that rides underneath the picture or dialogue. And it's just there to help us better understand what's happening in the story, what Mars and his pals caddy Jonas toothpick. All feeling at the moment. What is p. thinking about. That kind of thing. And yes, I know this is just underneath the. Out credits, the credits that role at the end of end of show end of and if you listen to a lot of shows a lot of movies, take the time to sit in the theatre little bit longer and listened to the music they play at the end because oftentimes those are the things that the composer spent the most amount of love on because. Well, they figured that everybody's just going to get up and leave. But listen to how beautiful what Shawn's written here. So for me, this is one of the nice moments and for me as the person that chooses the music and where goes on the show. This makes me very happy. When I listen to this. Sorta says job, well, done guys. Really, really nice work. And so what I wanna do, I'm going to give Sean call out in Los Angeles and we're going to bring him on. He's gonna talk a little bit about this, and then I'm gonna let a whole bunch of music place that you and your family can sort of listen to it wherever you are maybe driving a car. And can kind of enjoy it from front to back with just maybe some of the stuff you've recognized from the show. Some will be short. Some will be longer some stuff you haven't heard because a lot of the times us not the entire piece of the piece of music that we composed and then at the very end all play the themes again. So it's kind of a way for you to sort of have a little bit of extended listening to the Potomac in maybe a way you haven't before. So let me get on the phone here in dall- Sean, see what he has to say. Hello, there he is. Are you there you know, working hard you getting back into the swing things after your vacation -solutely. Well, I just wanted to give you a ring. You know, we are recording live here a little thing for the Mars Patel. Listeners, young and old, and I want them to meet the man. The one of the two people have already met me behind the music, Mars Patel. So it was great. So we have been sitting here talking about, I've been going on and on about underscoring and what that might mean. And if you're sort of a young person, what that might mean in terms of listening for it in in TV shows and movies, and I thought I wanted to hear you talk a little bit about that and see see what your take on it is and and sort of what to listen for. Well, that's it's a broad topic, but it's a fun one that it's interesting and I, I've been thinking about Mars, you know what Mars overall meant. To me with you, asking me to be part of the show and it's it was it's unique in my particular experience because I'm used to working with images that you see versus the kind of images that you don't see. Right? Those those ones, the non image. It's actually funny because what what I think that you guys have done so well with Mars and telling the story is you do get this unbelievable mental picture of what's going on without actually seeing something on screen. And this is the part of this for me that I find fascinating. It's like reading a book. It's like being told to you, you picture your own images and where that differs from what I do regularly, which is writing music for moving pictures. I'm trying to employ the same techniques and being inspired by an image and right to the moving image with Mars. It's all about the story and you're writing with the image that you're that you are creating yourself as listener and whether there's an actual picture or a mental picture, it's all about supporting story. Music almost becomes a little more important without the picture does. It's really all about listening. So you're, you're hearing a story being told and music is, and the way the way that you you produce the shows and mixed. The show's music is very much a voice very much, especially marris's become somewhat of a character for the very signature sound. I think that we came up with for the show. You know, I picked out one great. Example that I really loved and it was it was this this music of one of your cues that you wrote that played behind the end credits on the show, and I talked a little bit about how that just, you know, mates music can even make somebody reading credits, sound good, you know. But I also there's this other key that I really love and happens in season two. And I don't wanna give anything away for people that haven't listened to the show, but there's a scene in the second season where catty is sort of given up that moment where like she thinks all is lost and there's this great q. with with a violin. That's just a single held note, and it holds for quite a long time before the sort of emotional music comes in here limit. Let me play it for you right now. I'll play it for everybody right now so they can hear about and we'll chat about it. So so there was you can hear how long that that violin note held. And I just thought maybe you could talk to the the sort of, you know, especially to younger listeners, sort of the the ability to kind of be aware of just how much power that single note is bringing on how how much that works to really create the atmosphere in the scene. Well. USA is very powerful tool. Especially in this media music on its own is very powerful. It moves you in ways and how we write the music in place the music in this show, we have this ability to emotionally influence people. And make them feel certain ways with that particular scenario that you just you just played and showed we're letting hang in suspense. We don't know what's going to happen if we were to play anything during their chose, not to play anything into the simplest thing possible which what that is you didn't wanna give anything away. Like I said, he's a can be very powerful and can compare swayed us to feel certain emotion. So if we were to put comedy music in there, we think something funny is going to happen if we made it scary, you just assume that something's going to something bad is going to happen. That's very simple way to to look at it. But I think that maybe our listeners can comprehend that that you can hear certain different styles of music and be able to to identify with yourself how you feel when you hear that this, that single violin. Otis telling me just hang on, just hang on, something's coming, right. We let the story dictate. Bird goes, it's really scoring underscoring putting his under a story, putting these under dialogue and tr- we try not to push it around too much and and push you to feel certain way. We leave that up to the viewer to have their own experience. Does music has become voice in the show, and it does sound recognizable, but I think we've done a pretty good job of never getting in the way of the story and never forcing everything just feels it feels right. It feels that we're setting up an environment space for for these characters to live within. One of the things I always like to say in this is maybe a bit above the age of our listeners. But you know, one of the things that I think is different about this show that we always come from. And I think it's because you and I come from a music background and TV background that. Rather than like sort of what is the quote, unquote kids show sort of sound of music. You know, even where cancer to feel force in like, here's music, you know, it sort of we always treat this even though it is show for families. And for younger younger people, we always treat it. I thought we always have anyways as if it's like a one, a one hour HBO drama, you know that the music does not talk down or speak down, or you know, it causes our listeners age of our listeners to listen up and it's treated just as seriously as if we were scoring adult show of -solutely that if you look at the extremely popular kids franchises that make big animated feature fills, it's always done on such a sophisticated level. And I think that that was the intention with Mars was to tell the story in a sophisticated way through production, the writing, obviously, but to the production, which I have a big fan of on the series. I. I think it sounds just I think it's an incredible experience to listen to the show. You really do feel like you're there and then no way I think to you produce this show in in a way that is is talking down to or trying to guide somebody to to go after a certain age group at all. I think it's families. That's how I always describe it to people certain audience that loves that the younger audience for sure, but a lot of people love it. Well, it just goes back to what I told them. I, I was trying to come up with how many records and I've done together over the years and I said dozens and dozens, but you know me, I'm always exaggerating. So how many, how many albums is it over the years? What is it been thirty years? How many records that we done together a good question. Actually, we should try and get the actual number, but I probably agree with dozens and dozens. It's a lot of music. It came up in my items one time, just one band that you and I worked with writing stuff. It came up and I think it was something like seventy five tracks. Hundreds of pieces of music really is just a. We have a wonderful creative collaboration we always have and and being able to collaborate like this for this very special project is really meaningful. And I've learned a lot about. Music and story. From this show I learned I've learned a ton as well. I think you and I have a. Or language because we've collaborated creatively together for so long. It's rare. It's rare that two people can sit in a room and write music together. You know what I mean? I think that's kinda rare. That's always a great pleasure. Other than the fact that we just get to hang out and see. That's always free, but that the. Same time. It gets Manx make this this art. Well, it it is. It's a special special show, and hopefully people get a lot out of this who knows. Maybe nobody cares. We. You know, it's just we continue on and we keep pushing ahead and keep making more music and you know, and and and fun time saying. So I appreciate you taking the time. I know you're in the middle of of show right now. So glad that you took the time and I'm sure that all the listeners young and old offer getting some out of this and they, they enjoy hearing from the the guys behind this. Well, how to throw the part of the show. Awesome. Man, I will talk to you soon. Probably talk to you tomorrow. All right. Okay. Thanks. So did you notice what I did there? I. You know, like I was saying Shaun I've worked together for a long time and he was talking about what it was, you know, how are collaboration. Our friendship has been really great, and that's from both of both of us. You know, we were really long whole time friends. And so what I decided to go back and add a little of music to that section. I don't know if you noticed during the interview and sorta to ramp up the nice emotional moment that was two friends going to just talking about thirty year collaboration relationship. And yeah, I've thought it kind of added something to it. So I don't know. That was a good example of wanting to bring out to sort of subtle emotion of a moment. So listen, I've talked a long time. This is a long got lot longer than I thought it was going to go, but hopefully you got something out of it. So now I'm going to play just a bunch of q.'s probably about twenty minutes, thirty minutes of music. All from Mars Patel. Just gonna go one into the other. You know, hopefully if you wanna listen to it again, you can just note where this time marker is, and you can come back to this time and play it again as I know a lot of young people have to listen things over and over. And so this is the opportunity for you just let the music play and hope you got a lot out of it for myself band, Dave. And Jenny, we're really looking forward to bringing you season three and we're working so hard on it really excited where it's going or where we're where it's ended up in. We're excited to be writing it. We can't wait to share it with you. So thanks again, Christine. And everybody involved Amar's Patel. We'll talk to you soon. Best robot ever.
Season 3 Update & New Show
"I'm David and the show's creators have asked me to let you know they're hard at work on the next season. So many big questions. Still. The answer is Oliver Pruitt really Mars Patel's father, Cam catty. Save the martians, bring everyone home safely and where to go. The explainable disappearance Mars Patel season three will be headed your way soon. But for now, I have a special announcement about a new show from some of the creators of Mars Patel. It has all the mystery adventure and humor you've come to expect. It's called six minutes, and it's the story of girl named holiday is found floating in the icy waters off the coast of Alaska with no memory and abilities that she can't explain who is holiday. Where does she come from tune in to find out six minute episodes. Come your way twice a week, and they're going to run continuously through the whole year. So you'll never have to wait long for a new episode and now you the Mars Patel listeners, you're going to be the first to hear the premiere episode of six minutes in its entirety enjoy. And if you wanna be part of the mystery, be sure to subscribe to six minutes tunes or wherever you get your podcasts, thanks for listening and hang tight season. Three of Mars Patel we'll be back sooner than you think. There are kids in this world who are different. Special. They look like us. They actually. They are not. One of them is missing. Fine. Allow will tour. Chart hot wheel twice as much as lady, you know, you do hunting that. Did you know that the humpback whales brain's neurons. So that's also found in humans. I didn't know that Cyrus and he didn't really care either. That's not nice. Birdie your brother Love's science. It is your mother. By the way. It's why she became a doctor learn about Wael brains. I wanna see away all. I'm sure it will be one soon. Bird. That helicopter scare them all away. I read online that the scientists at Whittier are actually using wail cells to experiment with human evolution. Don't believe everything you read put, wouldn't it be epic thought? So you said you were going to turn off your phone on the vote source retorted. Hello. Yes, Admiral grilling. What kind of activity doesn't the government ever take a day off. Yes. Monica, Honey. Can you come inside the cabin for second. Sure. Right back guys. See how many Wales you spot before we get back. Seem weird to you. Tag gotta work call. He's always getting work halls, especially since we moved. And why did he ask mom to come with him? He'll cares. Can't see anything from down here. What are you doing. Trust meet. If there's a will, you'll see it. You're not supposed to climb the railing. Nice and can retina blowhole and. Bert, birdie. Stop the boat. Hang on birdie and throwing the life preserver grab onto it and let go. Swim to it. Good, good. Hang on what's going on. She's in the water. What she fell in go. He pulling. Girl. There's a girl playing in the water. She's right. There's a girl out there. Look. Cyrus. What are you doing? Cyrus going in Cyrus, comeback, Cyrus. Back to the pope. But she's breathing. My name is Dr. Andrew. Can you hear me. Surround British. She comes from. Hello. What's your name? Can you hear me. Holiday. Dr. Strauss doctor strapped to New York. Ticker vitals again, let me know if anything is changed. Yes, Dr. It's holiday going to be alright holiday. That's what she said on the boat. It must be our name, right? Hugh too must be freezing. You're still wet. We're fine. Where's she? She's resting in that exam room. She said, anything else? She hasn't woken up since he put her in the ambulance, Cyrus, birdie you guys Wade out here. We go in and see her. She's not ready for visitors, but you're going in, please stay with your sister, mom? What is it? Tyrus. What's marking on her left hand. I didn't notice any more. We'll be out soon. I can cover up the market with a bandage good. I called around. There's nothing out there about a missing girl. Szucs peaceful wine. Miracle. She survived Jane since to you. Believe in miracles. Similar leader someone's going to come looking for her, you know that. She's in distress. I can give her something to. I think she's waking up. Can you hear me. You know where you are holiday. What happened. You were in the hospital hospital. Do you know how you got here? What's going on? Why can't I remember anything? It's okay, Honey, you're safe now. You were in an accident. Are you my parents or. Yes, yes. We are your mom and dad.
Live at Awesome Con To Mars and Beyond
"Turn your great idea into a reality with squarespace squarespace. Easier than ever to launch your passion project. Whether you're showcasing your work or selling products of any any kind with beautiful templates and the ability to customize just about anything you can easily make a beautiful website yourself and if you get stuck squarespace twenty four seven seven award. Winning customer support is always there to help head to squarespace dot com slash talk for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch use offer code star Dr Talk to save ten percents off your first purchase of a website or domain watch and listen to commercial free episodes of star talk on on Star Talk. Plus sign up at Patriotic Dot com slash star. Talk Radio Welcome to star. Talk your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. Dr Talk Begins Right now. Everybody it is my great pleasure to welcome star. Talk live to the show to Awesome Kong Ladies and Gentlemen Landry. Bring on your host one of America's Great Science Educators Communicators Bell Gene Guy Below this good to see the well. We'll get you guys greetings greetings. I imagine this is not the first time you've heard this this weekend. This is awesome and speaking of awesome. Should we introduce guess. Let's do it. Well start out. Where should we start? Start Short over here. The most hilarious woman ever and you know her by her twitter handle handle at king firestorm. Plays Joan Gentleman Joe firestone next in this corner or this chair. Uh from the Astro Biology Institute you know him by his twitter handle Dr Funky Spoon David. Greens Boone David. David David David Good to see a story yes. Cat then in this corner which is a chair. And I give us twitter handle but he said no just just Google them Hari Kondabolu welcome Hari Kondabolu. And then lastly everybody somebody who's really works in the business full-time The second in command at NASA the deputy administrator. Dr David Newman. It just messed up a microphone there please. Everybody plays down. Are there any questions on what we've covered so far. No we're an awesome Kong this superhero superhero time and onstage. Here with me I claim or the superheroes of space exploration. Uh so so for me what I'm hoping for is to have superpowers right now. What are you guys wanted? Superpower's main thing for me I won't be able to fly and then the next thing down that list for me is to be able to have extraordinary vision. Extraordinary very vision. How other planets okay? Yeah and then I liked to vision. That would find life and stuff like that so to get started. Dr Newman. You are an expert in aerospace biomedical engineering. Yes your your research. Studies included Vince spacesuit design and dynamics and control of astronaut motion which is not trivial when you're in zero G or Myers her shaky And you're the director of MIT's technology and policy program. Leave to serve as well as your deputy director. Dr Greensburg Sir. You're of course your regular here and start talking. That's why your love it art. I presume you are funky and you're good with a spoon and that's why your best your doctor funky spoon. But right now. You're the senior scientist at the Planetary Science Institute right which is like an amorphous thing. It's distributed distributor because it's the modern world in which we now live and hear a co investigator on Mars Mars Curiosity rover right and stuff like that. This is right so Here's the thing you guys aren't going to just ask you to start with this word. Awesome con what would be your favorite. Let's see we'll start with David. What would be your favorite superhero summit? Combine a few so. It's what you can do that young. It's elastic girl. Roy was spiderman because the suit is cool we came up with it. I you know for a suit for Mars and I like to fly to so Batman so he lassie spider bat girl. That's what I'm going gone with the wind and really fly as much as he falls incredibly well and he doesn't every very seldom gets hurt. Well let's girls. I'm not familiar. Last girl was just kind of bendy or what was her super. Bendy Cool Ben around. Yeah nothing got on her way. Well what was the difference between her and say Gumby more Christian the green. She's read she's kind of more red screen and she's read right there. Just start with that to start but seriously you made you made an allusion to space suits that are resemble Superhero costumes. There you go but the technology came. I think the technology came. I I think so. We're working on technology for a long time technology. Are you talking about Vance. Spacesuit suit design has to be you know lightweight mobile flexible. We're going to Mars. Did you hear interplanetary so going to Mars not you guys. We're not going. Join the Mars during this surprise. We're going Kirk. I hope you're with someone you love it. Drop in doing in Mars. What are we doing? We're sitting up Schapper. What's happening there? We're already there have been there for the last fifty years with orbiters. Here's landers and the next fifty years or even cooler we're going with people so I we're going out space station in orbit phase one. We've been doing this for sixteen years together together with the world that we move out to Earth Moon and all the twenty twenties rovers are still hanging out doing Mars. We have these great experiments popping off the robotic missions to Mars an boots on Mars with people in the twenty thirties. Like stuff steph will be there. It's the year that you think that there will be boots with people inside the boots people's boost in the twenty it is the twenty thirties is probably not all of us. But it's my Mars. Mars generation today is going to be commercial. Flights is to Mars. Is that the player government and commercial so public private partnership and it's the world to South West is doing the like he'll wait till there's a weird line to get into to get Amar joke. Watch out for the baggage. Aga's charges before we go for a long David. You have a favorite superhero. Yeah I guess. My favorite superhero is planet girl slash slash planet boy because planet girl slash planet boy. Because she's she's transgender and interplanetary very and she's got spectrometer is multi wavelength imaging. Spectrometer is. She's got I and drive on our toes so she can go in orbit around around Anti Planet and image just about anything you would want to Dr Newman. You are the second in command of NASA. That's like a superpower and is super cool the best job in the world. Maybe the second best I think is best job in the world. You ever go like get Outta here outerspace out well because if you did it would cost a lot of money. Just yeah so so when you say journey. Tomorrow's we spell that J A to M. I like that. That's that's my shorthand for and so In order to make the journey to Mars with me ask you a couple of things. What what do we need to do? We need a big rocket. So we're designing and developing and this Israel our space launch system is well under development. How long will it take to to travel from Earth Mars around trips about eight months to get there but just think of it as like about a two year round trip in transit? The hopefully we say six hundred days on the surface of Mars exploring now when you say six hundred days six hundred Earth Day. Six hundred Sol's yeah that's a that's debatable Six hundred Earth Day since mcalinden Earth Days Right now Susan days is also just six days. I think anybody who's ever seen the movie. Two thousand one space Odyssey would say that is awesome and the reason part of the reason it was awesome. It was spinning right. The Space Station spinning creating some artificial gravity but Right now the proposal is to punch it and go to Mars fast enough exercise enough on the way and take the right medications to preserve bones preserved muscles and bones musculoskeletal title the bone We lose Typically lose one to two percent bone mineral density per month here on earth that's decade but maybe we have some small you can do small. The short arms sent vacation that fits in the craft as really interesting concept you know spend in the gym you know instead of the elliptical. It's a could be a spinning thing so we're still planning Spinning well see the spacecraft two thousand and one that was fantastic. Engineers love it. But that's expensive when you have a two kilometer radius right so let's do a smaller one because you know we have great buzzer. Second David just a normal blank. What a normal? What a normal spacecraft normal Mars spacecraft is Mars spacecraft? Think into like little spinning beds inside. Say That's that's still artificial gravity but within the constraints of a normal Moore space cash. So let's say that problem is. What is the biggest challenge? The biggest challenge forgetting people to Become interplanetary because we will become interplanetary. I hope sooner than later. That's what I'm working on. Biggest challenges the will big channels. We have to focus just deciding. Yes the biggest challenge just saying yes and getting all of you getting all the people behind. Let's say that I answer. Why why are we going there? The enduring questions are we alone in the universe is their life has been past life. That's the why because this challenge is just say let's just say yes say. The course in don't get derailed and just focus focus focus and then we get there so those should be shown just delivered. The you're saying no to this like people are afraid of aliens apathy. Let's to own Mars. There's like this global I mean now so we're saying here's our plan. Here's what we want to lead. WE HAVE ALL OVER ELEMENTS HEAVY LIFT LAUNCH RYAN CAPS on top. We get out. And then we're saying world come with US Stonier Tonia. Yes if he wants to join global. It's sweater risks. That's the way click colonialism before like all these different countries were going to Aladdin claiming it won't that just happened again with like different companies tonight. I think we'd see. Maybe we can get it right. This time ultimately it's probably on Mars. Yeah but we're GONNA kill them. I discussed this earlier. I think the we're going to become the Martian work all really really quickly as we're talking about Martians in this scientific for their real. What's happening? Well Okay Earth and Mars four point five billion years sister planets beautiful wonderful and we think we have a lot of scientific data now Mars three point and five billion years ago. It's probably wet wonderful. Maybe they'll wild back in the day back in the day. Three point. Five Billion Rica. Yeah Costa Rica and there's something something might have gone terribly wrong. What went terribly wrong? We do many parties too many parties. We'd like to figure that out because that tells us a lot again about about earth and so there's past life is probably kind of fossilized in you know that's what we're looking for past life probably so a couple of things though literally There is a space treaty from nineteen sixty seven by John Lennon the wording learning of it is a little bit vague of the space treaty. kind of deliberately because it talks about going to the moon and other celestial bodies like people. The Mars was a long way nevertheless Mars is getting to be within reach. It's getting to be a reasonable thing. The people might do. We can really do this. I just my opinion Ryan which as you know is correct is It's just not so easy to get to Mars. It's just it's not like these guys came. They came from Europe and they went across North America. They came from Europe. They went to South Africa and they did. They started eating things and setting up tents and stuff but the Mars is much more difficult deal. Well there's also a big difference which is that there were people here When European Scott here and they weren't always recognized as people and that caused a lot of problems it seems as though there no people on Mars so the setup is inherently different but what about what about the protecting raw? Let's say the objective to protect Martian life. If it's found you know one of our big scientific objective now of course. It's to find out if there is Martian life so that we don't inadvertently do something really stupid to it so that along that line we're sending robots right by robots. Let's weaned spacecraft that land drive around cool tires and a to look for things. But what. How do we know those things are sterile? Those robots have been made clean enough to land there without contaminating the Martian life when we take it serious as you know planetary protection protection and we think about forward protection we bring life. We're looking for life on Mars or we sure won't wanted to be our life so we do that and back contamination so forward contamination so so it has to be you know it's the whole area. There's no there's no way to know for sure But but it is taken seriously we do our best There are planetary protection protocols. We try to clean our spacecraft. We don't sterilize them. One hundred percent but we so we know we've brought some microbes when you say we don't sterilize them. One hundred percent I. I watched the obvious quote. Why not because it's very hard to in order to sterilize spacecraft? You would have to cook the whole thing to to a point where you would destroy a lot of scientific instruments so we you'd melt the allotments to a kind of playing this game where we get them clean enough so that we know how many microbes are on their land them in places where we don't think those microbes would survive. It's a little bit of a game you have to play and we don't. We know there are some microbes on Mars. We've brought there but we don't believe we started colonies of earth organisms on Mars. Because I would love to beat everybody. They're put a bunch of rabbits on Mars the rabbit they. What are we looking for as far as Martians? We're looking for like plants or worms. Sir fossilized kind of like going to the beach and looking at those cool. You know fossilized shells like something like like a muscle like a muscle with no food harder and flatter and three point five billion years old so keeping for what was there now. What is their past life? There's is there. Is there where we're we're finding out every day. We know how Mars lost atmosphere are Maven Observer. Just helped us out and we know there's methane Mars breathing kind of saying hi to us with methane in coming out. I think it might be active. Then so when you find me the best thing from what do we. We don't know in fact in fact the existence of the methane itself was somewhat controversial. Oh it's looking better and better. There probably is methane pain and of course a long time ago before we found the methane that was one of the things that scientists said would be a bio signature on Mars if you find methane then there's gases that are weird gases that shouldn't be in the atmosphere just like shooting earth there's oxygen in the atmosphere that comes from life. If you find methane on Mars we used to say then that'll be a sign of life so now we found methane on Mars. But we're not sure it's a sign of life because there's not much of it and it behaves in weird ways and there are Some chemical geological reactions that can make methane inside the earth sized planet but most of the methane on on earth atmosphere does come from books from life just to clarify. We're talking about space for threat and BURPS. It could be proportioned see methods. It'd be great great promotion for us to get back to Earth. Gas Station members gas station on Mars station. How cute route? It's GonNa have like mini mart and stuff. I guess have to set that up but imagine this everybody used land. You land the right spacecraft on Mars and you use the chemistry of the rocks and the atmosphere to make rocket fuel to fly back. I mean that is an extraordinary ordinary and very cool and we will talk about that coming up in the next segment. You've been watching and listening to star Talk Radio. We'll be back right after this. The you've got dreams big dreams. 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Star Talk Talk Radio to get the most out of star talk not welcome back to talk live worth the convention you center in Washington. DC and I am joined by this fabulous plan which includes our beloved Eugene Merman Joe Firestone David Greene Spoon and second in command at NASA. David Newman. So the one we left we were talking about life on Mars retirement. What we'd be looking for Mars? How would we know whether or not we found something alive on Mars? What exactly are we exactly looking for? Well it's a puzzle right because we don't know if there's any life life beyond earth and by the way what what is what is life was that that's the puzzle. How do we define it when we when we only have one example you? Do you think there's all this biodiversity on earth but we know one thing we've learned for sure is that it's all related so there's one example of how do we know it's all related well chemically uh of course it all uses DNA and proteins and even better than that by looking at the sequences of DNA and proteins. You can tell what's related to what and you can make this tree of life and you can go all the way back. And we do not find any organisms that we're not obviously related to on a biochemical level even even even snails are your distant cousins. You An escargot are just oh you know. A few generations removed from being a so. We can't really define something that we only have one example. If it's not very scientific you you want a bunch of examples of something to say what all has in common and yet we want to search for life elsewhere. So we have these sort of provisional definitions we think we know what it signs lanes will be. We think we know what it is but in order to really know what it is we have to find it and then be able to compare it What would you speculate? It would be. Well what take present life and past life right now. Mars are really think this past life but we say you look for life. The search for life follow the water. That's kind of rule number one the water now. We have well Because David was saying you know we look at. We're looking for carbon based life. That's what we know carbon based lifeforms. That's that's how life is on earth now. There could be something we haven't thought of but right now we're saying go for the water. We have water on Mars. Mars has a carbon dioxide atmosphere. Pretty Cool we're they make oxygen there if we're talking about just life in the universe looking at EXO planets and such as well we tend to take more general view of thinking. Well at least as we know with something that perturbs its environment chemically EXO planet planets around other stars. How many how many now? They're super cool. We know we didn't know this twenty years ago this is one of the revolutions of our time as we now that we know that all the stars in the sky almost all of them have planets multiple when I was in school. Joe People speculated that there might be a planet around one in every hundred stars now. It's generally agreed in sort of orders of magnitude attitude factors of ten that every star has at least ten planets about ten planets. And then if you WANNA get in the argument about Pluto said arrison these so other rarely distant icy worlds. Then you're talking about hundreds of planets Allison's out we just can't we just we just categorize and and let out a twelve hundred a new dog on those. We see great if we could detect water but even if we just see weird chemistry in the atmosphere carbon dioxide atmosphere and then we can turn that into oxygen. We're GONNA do that on March. Twenty Twenty rover. I they have some of you have to go person. But we're GONNA make engine on a planet hang. Hang on just a minute David. You said well you know we're gonNA look for life. That was once they're on Mars back there. You know back in the book we there's methane have the Maven Mars the atmospheric volatile emissions. What's the end environmental? It's Nancy in the AFC and she's She's fan if they're finding methane. There's got to be a source of it. I'll give all of you chemists and I love view all out there. There's some inorganic chemical process that produces methane right but everywhere on earth we find water. We find living things even the tiniest dampness of nothing damp in in death valley there cyanobacteria that live right the green blue green green things that live under the rocks rains once every couple of years. Something's alive there right all right so if we're finding methane on Mars with what is it the trace gas orbiter. S- out there and me Ben and we're finding liquid water in these recurring slope delinea- right and the geologist seasonal review it too little real little drip of War Hari. I like it. You can't see it on the podcast people but he is inquisitive man. I'm just hanging on this look. How much water are we talking about right now right now just a small amount briny salty water are you? Don't drink it yet. But the great thing is we knew there's ice on the but now this is almost none on the surface. Yeah and this is seasonal so when you know seasonal Martian summer there's a it's fantastic with your is true thing. You lied about not about that. It's a Mercian waterfall. Well or review. Have you let let's better yet. We believe we know you guys minded of course but you're telling telling me that we've got liquid water on Mars and we have methane that we detect albeit in strange ways from billions of kilometers away with these extraordinary ordinary spacecraft. And you're not optimistically optimistic finance completely. I think it's going to be sooner than later. I'm not I don't. I don't think there's life on Mars today and I think actually that's a good thing. I'm optimistic that there's no life on Mars today because that makes it much less complicated for us to do the the things we were talking about and not be wiping Kate Bennett European immigrant man. Yes it sounds like you might be saying. Well I'm pretty sure there's nothing they're not going to contaminate show on. Oh because I I very much support our carefully investigating getting this question. I think that right now. Our ignorance vastly outweighs our knowledge. But I am a skeptic. As far as the methane we've seen in the water we've seen indicating a biosphere. What are you skeptical though? Because I think that on a planet like Earth you look at here for instance this room. If you were an alien looking at our system from afar there'd be this planet earth that has a flagrant bio signatures. This oxygen is huge. Hugh people signing your by like this. I don't think planet like Mars that has very subtle potential bio signatures will ever be alive because on a planet like Earth biospheres coupled to the active biogeography podcast arms because earth has scar. Has this active hydrological cycle with rainfall and evaporation. It has played tectonics that geology is. The live live. The chemistry of the Interior is in communication with the atmosphere. Still waving his arm waving my arms dance the on earth but sharing to get your arms like like like microbes in the water like iced icing on earth life rides the cycles of an active geological planet. Mars in that sense is a pretty dead planet. I think as David was saying we will probably find signs of life in the past when Mars was as less dead planet. But if I had to bet I would bet that the Mars does not have life if today leaking sleek speaking abetting. They won't take the bet now. I'll bet a dollar and we'll figure it out and what twenty thirty two I said I would go with twenty. Three twenty will be on Mars. You're the most today with five vehicles kids. It's plagues kids playing first generation. The Twenty Thirties. So let's back up to the disco era the flavor favorite time good. You're in the right price so the Viking landers had scoops that this is one thousand nine hundred seventy six July fourth coincidence two hundred anniversary of the United States Viking one lands there has a scoop Ken to an ice cream shovel and scrapes into the soil and stuff than it scraped. Drop some of that soil into some chemistry experiments. That were a spacecraft style. There you you can't see them from here. But the scoops dropped the dust in there and something happened right and people for a couple of days for those who are not around in the disco era. There were a few days or even weeks when people around the world like totally freaked because it seemed like something was bubbling on Mars. That might be alive right now. Can you come So this gets back to this vaccine question of. How do we look for when we really don't know anything about life elsewhere? And the Viking biological experiments it's were were wonderful set of investigations. But I in hindsight they were maybe a little bit naive in that what we were really. They really do really they were looking for life on. Mars was very much like life on earth essentially they scooped up stuff like you said and they sprinkled it with what they call chicken soup. which now is nauseous? Fished I just gone into his hand. Yes sprinkled up stuff a put it in this experimental apparatus and the basically they sprinkled sprinkled with water and what the scientists nicknamed chicken soup which was a set of nutrients which earth organisms would've loved Simpler Ganic compounds and they see if anything Happened and did it. gives off gases where the carbon were sure. Would if it were if you put a scoop of earth and they even labeled the carbon with radioactive a AH carbon heavy isotope as topically heavy carbon so you can see if the carbon in the chicken soup and see if you have the right instrument. Yeah you can with that instrument you could tell. The carbon in the chicken soup was the same carbon that came out it was as if the stuff was breathing out carbon dioxide. So they said there's something in there that's eating chicken soup and breathing out carbon dioxide it's alive but then it didn't really behave like living organisms. There was a big fizz of this carbon dioxide and then it went sh shit tailed off as listening to his hand. went way up keeps going to Do a hook shot and then came down like he was going to An accent financial decline exponential picture one of those things Outside car washes like every time I feel like. That's a great visual Inflatable Guy. I looked like it was behaving like life. It briefed on this stuff out and then it looks more like Like pop rocks or something. Where something fizzes or or mentos and Pepsi or something fizzes all of a sudden and then just dies off if it was organisms it would sort of perpetuate longer so it ultimately had shape uh over time where it acts like some chemical in? There was really excited to react with the stuff we gave it to Mars. UPROXX RELATE BRA exactly exactly fizzed. But it didn't really metabolize on the way we understand it now. One should say there are still some holdouts outs. There's this guy named Gil Levin who is one of the original investigators on this. He's still alive and he's a smart guy and he thinks that they found. They found life on Mars with this experiment and he refuses to be convinced. Otherwise he's a smart guy and there's still a little controversy about this is an indication of the fact that we don't completely know what we're doing when we're looking for life which is kind of what's exciting about this. We're on the edge of our knowledge and we're trying to investigate something that we can't completely grasp so Mars. This is crazy. Cold Venus is crazy hot classic. goldilocks exactly that's the word we use. We are the goldilocks planet. You've you've you've you've convergence of scientific mind right here we go. We've got the porridge serrate timber. That's the right temperature to eat. Gobble Gobble I know it really is okay. Listen I'm just my mind is sort of good. I exo Xhosa planets. Yeah it does seem like X.. Oh gossip girl okay. But let's just so exo planets there must be around on those stars planet. That's equal distant from two to know. So that's just so we have have an instrument and the James Webb space telescopes. Coming up Kepler's out there now but this telescope is going to look with such sensitivity. How sensitive will it'll be that people believe they'll be able to look through the atmosphere of a planet back lit by its star? Are you digging me. Sunlight sunlight from a star is GonNa go through this planet's atmosphere and this telescope out in space will be able to detect what gases are in that atmosphere. Fear is all hot for is water vapor and methane natural gas the stuff in the blue flame of your stove and an oxygen suit and this would be like so cool and so this mike claim everybody is these discoveries if we were able to discover life on Mars on Europa the moon of Jupiter twice as much seawater is the earth at least as much water as what is the very northern twice. Great Place to go look for love. It don't tell them so so so anyway what we WANNA do. My claim is if we were to find life if we were to find life on one of these places it would change this world. So let's say hey we're we're GONNA do this David at Dr Funky Spoon Man Sir. What is your dream scenario? Finding Life Life on Mars. What's how would you go about doing it? Well I think it we're going about it the right way. I would love to accelerate if my dream scenario scenario would be double or triple the NASA budget for exploration and could do more. I think we know what to do. Thank you by the way. Let me just say the kids who wants to say. CEO of the Planetary Society. I spent a lot of time on this stuff. And we've gotten the planetary planetary science budget now up to about one point seven billion which I know doesn't sound like much but everybody. The Nassar Budget is about point. Four percent of the federal budget zero point four right. I don't get to percents to also in the Apollo followed as it was ten times. It was four percent of the federal budget and so the planetary science line-item within the NASA budget is less than ten percent of the NASA budget nine and plus percent. And so these were the ordinary discoveries are made so your dreams starts with getting more money. Yeah so we go for my dream. Scenario for Mars in specifically is as I said. I think think we're going to confirm that. There's no life on Mars today But I want to be really sure before we go into other things. There's gotTa check out this methane figure out where it's coming from if it's not life it's telling us something really interesting about the geochemistry of Mars that we need to know but my dream scenario for Mars as as as David mentioned the possibility finding fossils there should should have been life on early Mars given what we know will either find fossils signs of life on Mars or if we study Mars really carefully and understand understand those early environments and find that there was no life ever on Mars that has also really exciting thing to find. It tells us something about Earth that there's something special we don't understand everything everything we learn about stuff outerspace informs What we know about the earth and I claim that the more we know about our solar system and other other solar systems with other stars xl planets the more it informs ourselves and where we all came from this is the he too deep questions? Are we alone in the universe. Just here's the big question though. What would we do with life if found it and we're going to talk about that when Star Talk Talk live comes back right after this? We'd like to give Patriot shut out to the following Patriots Patrons Justin Adamson and forest shepherd. Thank you guys for your support because without you it'd be very difficult to do what we do. And if anyone what else would like their very own pitron shadow make sure that you go to Patriot dot com slash talk radio and support us. They can't back star Talk Live here in Washington DC. I'm I'm here on the fabulous panel. Joe Firestone DOT Dr. David Newman Hari Kondabolu and beloved beloved Eugene Murmur. So we're having nothing but fun here on star talk this week. We're talking about life on other worlds. We're talking about space science superheroes and this segue into search for life and now we're talking about how we exactly would actually go looking for life. We have some assets there on Mars right now right. We have curiosity rover. We have some a lot of assets in orbit around Mars. And the idea. Let me just let me just A start by going back to begin. Start with why are we also hot to look for life on Mars why not life on Mercury or Venus close by Mars is the best place to look for life and then we get further out into the solar system and then we go to these ocean worlds which even better you're again Earth Mars really our sister planets from Mars westbound slow the most earth like environment on the surface her for seven other planet that we know of and evidence that in the past it was much more earth like so We have a sense of why it's so sad. Had there now yes it doesn't. It's not big as big as the earth so it cooled off faster so it's Does not have have the churning iron in the middle that we have on earth reading magnetic field which makes the solar wind particles Go Downhill when they get to the north and South Pole but on Mars apparently the same particle scrape the atmosphere off scraped it into space losses. Atmosphere bladed is still going on. Today are Maven spacecraft is in orbit. Check out we can see the ions blading. It's only a one percent sense atmosphere. Morris has a one percent compared to Earth one hundred percent here as one percents in its carbon dioxide not protected by that is. They're they're still trying to figure out here back on so hang on hang on. How are we going to get there? You guys we just had a human's orbiting Mars workshop The Planetary Terry Society pitch to humans orbiting Mars architecture as it's called and along with all the many things NASA was going to do was develop up these solar electric propulsion spacecraft. And how does that work and the sewer electric was going to go out to an asteroid asteroid redirect correct retrieval mission right how to soar electric propulsion work. And how is it part of going to Mars so When we go to deep space he's Big Back Earth Moon sis lunar right? That's the next step. That's phase two. I on space station. low-earth orbit twenty twenties. We'll be on our space launch system as our heavy lift launch lawsuit Massa word for big rocket big rocket big rocket. We haven't had one like this for forty years move over Saturn five more powerful powerful data the center five racket scissor made of your standard metals. Your kids you're you're using aluminum's using additive manufacturing though to make its mature efficient so we're using high-tech but big rocket we're basically using home depot stuff. We're using the screws and the US Josh. Nice stuff I N. I'll double and then we get out the two systems so now we're in deep space okay. We're in deep space. Not Quite yet tomorrow. That's face three but in face to we're into deep space and we have to demonstrate some technologies because you don't just get to Mars in one building here electric propulsion you know in in space propulsion. Here's the thing is Joe. Just said Home Depot Style rockets chemical rockets. You know what I mean. Joe You gotTa Liquid Oxygen. You've got some other fuel. You mix them with a fuse. And they burn like crazy and they make their cool noise and then they go into space really And and then what happens after that. Then your space and there's some reason you don't want to use chemical rockets anymore. That is well we need. We need breakthrough technologies is when you new technologies where we're investing in now. Now we're getting to the moon right right so you're deep-space top technologies we're investing in today for Polish is hard to carry all Atari to carry cargo and fuel you is in space propulsion. So there's different so we're talking about solar electric propulsion move big cargo. Lots lots of mass heavy mass. Go slowly but that's all right. We'll get there so moves a lot of cargo. You truly rockets and space seventy. Yeah we're more than seventeen thousand five hundred miles per hour but still slow for space silver overseas for US late late. Speed is fast. Yes yes yes Joe Josie slow. You mean as fast as we can bake the lower. Let's say a little bit. You Know Little Solo herb because you want to get your people there as quickly as possible so big rocket. Let's go fast about eight months. You know. But that's eight month trip because we gotta get boots on Mars as we get orbit but this in-space propulsion solar electric. That's a nice candidate constant acceleration. So just keep going all the way you know. Let's carry carry air your groceries. You know. Carry the stuff you need with us for. They always a lot of stuff later after the people well we'd be popping them off right so I do want to do is have stuff in place before human show up you wanNA lend some tents and fuel fuel depots we said habitats. So that's what we're they just want to talk for a second about the rocket equation. Who Doesn't oh the rock and so the the big thing that makes rocket go and you've seen this show is the stuff coming out back is going really fast classic? The Classic Orange in the child's drawing afterburners. Yeah that's yeah. Yeah the orange source. It's going really fast out the back but it takes. You need a lot of fuel and you reach a point where you can't get the rocket going too much faster because so you can't get the exhaust going that much faster right. It's called specific impulse. We call it in the rocket equation so in solar electric propulsion. We're going to take a big tank NCA- obscene on is that right for example. Yeah so anyway you get a tank of this stuff liquefied and you get by getting the atmosphere getting a the big tank of air on earth cold and the Zine on separates out in the Lake Parfait and then they extract it put it in a tank thank and then they put it on this rocket spurs. Will you breathe it all the time in tiny amounts and look. I've been doing my whole life and I'm fine. No so then you have solar panels Assis- right Dame's interesting. They need lectures. We have more Indo screen looking thing. And it electrically attracts the Zenon from his little tank and shoots it out the back Sopranos and that's really an ions also also science fiction but anyway the soil electric propulsion idea is going to be used to go to Mars right now on it solar electric propulsion. We're counting on that. Let me tell you a a few other ones who are investing in right now deep space habitats incredible. You know public private again. Industries working with deep-space halves. Then people smooth have life support systems. You gotTA fear out to get you know we're going way beyond low-earth orbit so we need space halves beam bigalow beam just just inflated expanded Spanish. This Week East Asian acronym. Yeah for the bigelow expandable module onto a nice expandable habitat. It's a big inflatable thing. Attached to the international me doing it with the hands. Not Too big space station is big football field right. These are smaller halves. We need testimony now number one radiation about radiation radiation. I was here's came from the Earth to Mars. The radiation would kill you. People people have rethought problem The radiation is is one of the serious physical problems with sending people to Mars and we know a lot more about this now because of the Mars Science Laboratory which is our curiosity rover which is on Mars now. Doing wonderful things but on the trip to Mars this instrument called called Radd the radiation detector radiation assessment detector. And I'm actually a CO investigator on that instrument. So it's near and dear coli on the RAD team and one of the things that was cool we were able to do with read. It was designed to measure that level of high energy radiation on the surface of Mars. The rover which it's doing wonderful way but we realized that we could also turn turn it on before we got to Mars. It's the one instrument on the rover that we turned on while it was still in the space craft on the trip to Mars. Because it allowed us to measure the amount of radiation in interplanetary. Space and basically simulate what a human would experience in terms of radiation on the way to Mars and so. It's the first time we ever did that. And now we really know much more than we did before this mission would kill chill you or not it will kill you but it will put you at greater risk of getting cancer which could ultimately kill you. But it's not like it's not like just going to Mars is gonNA FRY. You'll be dead when you get there it is it will by a few percentage points. You'll die when you get back to Earth well equipped I want to go to the doctor and you get a cat scan So if you eight months at skin do that plot slightly increasing your chances. So you don't want to do that all the getting cancer lifestyle. Yes you did that. Once a week we look at the total life dose total life radiation does and we're going to protect the astronauts. That's what we're mapping. Were taken this data now. We're looking at the Mars radiation environment and then it's our job. How how can we protect the people? How can we protect spacecraft on a fryer intimacy so we protect the people and we have some interesting to the kind of people that want to be astronauts? If you say well you got an extra one percent chance of getting hit. I'm in I'm going on so you still want to protect them. Absolutely what are some of the ways. The way like like is is a similar to like when you go to the dentist and take pictures or your mouth they put the thing over your satisfaction shielding generally is very good for shielding especially for you know a galactic cosmic radiation that. We're going to going to see on Mars. Or for instance. What we're in this figure? There you go superheroes so in the craft water we water to drink pretty high density radiation shield. So there's interesting concepts in the vehicle vehicle high-density matures. We're GONNA take water anyhow. Be Nice going to live in the water walls that will really help the astronauts for it to be radiated for you now. The water doesn't care at all. Your the water doesn't care but when you drink it it doesn't matter curriculum. Anything if there were any little bugs in the water that you didn't want there to be you know so you have a jacket. You'd have a ball a sphere. Shell of water around your space waterbed water it's like MTV cribs when we get some ours. Don't WanNa put it in because you want to be mobile lightweight but lava tubes and there's a lot in volcanic underground caves things like that. These are all actually amazing shields. Hangar space underwear has that been discussed. Disgust like what are the sexual side effects of Radiation Cup. I'm just getting to the question. I'm sure you are all considering from the get-go like what what happens is their extra protection in those areas. Jaw Kelly's long-term lungs ensure he asked the question. There's no way he wasn't asking questions I think I think if you're going to have children do it before you go to Mars or at least put some in the freezer. Yeah that's a good idea before that have went after and that's typically right shoulder con. Let me rephrase that friendly amendment if the second one has superpowers get your superheroes radiated. Maybe you're bitten by a radioactive spider father's dinged on the scientific term for penis gentleman so just as far as I know. Ding Dong is not an acronym. It's When you know when you say Ding Dong? I'm looking over at the interpreter here and just wondering what but anyway the doodle let her that was good she explained what were we were. We were couple of Mars. Wait a minute now. You mentioned the radiation Detection instrument what other instruments would you take. Why would you take them? And then fundamentally everybody everybody. Would you go to Mars if you had to go to Mars. What instruments would you take if I was going to Mars? Or what are you going to send. What are you GONNA do? I want to the thing that I wanNA WANNA do. If I were going to go to. Mars is look for fossils fossil bacteria in would take I would take rock hammers and drills and a microscope a scanning electron microscope. If I can get away with making one small enough and carry. They're scanning electron microscopes are big Yeah it was really good at is making things. Small Ones Rinky to and put a little technology development into it. I would want on my Mars laboratory with my astronauts there. I would want to be able to go out and drill and find samples of the most pressing size. I want to look for the isotopes. So Oh I've wanted a really good Mass Spectrometer to look for isotopic signs apply for for signs that life had altered the chemicals in the past and I would really WanNa book actually for physical fossils and the right kinds of cells. Let me say I My father was count. Liked the rocks. Every rock tells the story. My uncle was a geologist. And the way you're describing this to me babe. David is geology tools. Yes but what. Non Geologic instruments. Would you take so well first taking the people. That's what I'm about to the people and a rovers machines because that's how we work better. We will explore tens one hundred times more of Mars if we get there and we're mobile working in teams people I've heard this This What are Best Rovers? Do a week a human would do in less than five minutes. Maybe even less than a minute to much more you know mobile and quicker. So we're we're all in this together. And what instruments robots and people were young instruments. Well actually back to life support systems systems and by regenerative I actually would make sure I could make oxygen and water things like that. There's not enough there I shot so I'm kinda worried about staying alive so I'd like some water like some oxygen to worship Rosedale. You know it's funny the way you phrased question. Non Geological all instruments because the word geological has gio which means earth so any of these instruments on Mars area logical right there which areas is Mars anyways so if we want to see if we want to understand the ancient story of Mars then we're we're gonNA apply a lot of the same tools used to understand the ancient rocks and the ancient story of earth so so we look at ancient sediments there what capture the atmosphere to the bubbles bubbles of air? Hang a SEC. The Viking missions had some chemistry thing that everybody got excited about right. Because it's wrong though right. Oh ooh one guy says maybe not Sarong. Okay so WH- experiment that was The spiritual quivalent of of the Petri dish set right. So what is the spiritual club in of. Let's say Mark Watney. Has it all figured out. He can breathe and grow. Potatoes does whatever he's GonNa do to take care of himself. How's he gonNA find or she gonNA find evidence of life on Mars? What instruments do we need? Do the instruments let me tell tell you I wanted to Say who are the people because yes what is it the astrobiologist I hope not. I hope it's not a single discipline of anyone because we need a whole new education so this is the point you need no little Esther Balaji right you want to know your geology You know I'm thinking an MD might be a little medical knowledge so we really need cross-disciplinary trained folks. So I hope it's not just an astro balance or you just described as astro biology because astro biology is sort of polly discipline. If you go to an astro biology meaning there's people talking about geology. People talking about astronomy chemistry glaciology philosophy so but knee. So you do need a few different people people well steamed. I'm I agree with the designers. We're we're all in. We need also psychics. WCHS comedians working cycles. This is a tough trip. But if we really confer confer extent life then we want to bring you know Petri dishes and we wanna try to culture stuff. It's really not. What are you going to use for your car and your Petri dish? You don't know what Martian in bugs like. So you gotta get very clever there. And that's why. I'm I'm drawn more towards microscopes and things where you don't necessarily assume too much about what that stuff is doing doc. You just want to see if you figure if there's a bug you're going to recognize the JOE is going to bring back samples. They're crazy for take. Geology course. You've got a rock hammer. You go to the rocks and and you knock them open and you bring them back to your dorm room and your friends. Think you're having issues and The WanNa bring back has sample be three kristaps. Twenty Twenty rover drills soil picks them up twenty twenty two flies them up in the Martian orbit. Been Twenty twenty four or five live. brings them back to the International Space Station and be open them up and take a meeting right but is there any concern that we're going to bring back the Martian microbes of death. There's there's a slight concern but I would say very very personally Is Isn't worth the risk. Mr Bont. Yes because here's the thing you can't explore with zero risk. If we wanted to be perfectly safe we we would not never bring back a rock from Mars. If you wanted to be perfectly safe you would never leave the house in the morning so Anything interesting involves a certain amount of risk but breath. We're not GONNA Scorpions. Yeah exactly there could be nasty things but but this is why we're doing the precursor missions and this is also why we have protocols. If we bring back a sample of Mars there are requirements to keep it very carefully isolated and unlike area a fifty one even this area fifty two man. You haven't even heard of it. It's really secure. So you guys I just WanNa thank. Yeah well this is really been a cool discussion. Everybody had these terrific insights asking these fundamental questions about the nature of life on another world breath. How would we find it? What would it be like? How would it affect us? How are we going to get there? even how are you going to pay for it. We talked about all this. This has been like the greatest star. Talk live ever give everybody a hand. David deba Hari and Eugene. I Been Bill Nye. Your host the Star Talk Live. Thank you so much. Thank you in the past a bud come here. You could have listened to this episode with no ads. I tell you how for five bucks a month you can join star talk on patriotic and lose all the commercials learn more at Patriot dot com slash star. Talk Radio. But you didn't hear it from me.
NASA's Mars Helicopter Attached to Mars 2020 Rover
"If you're listening to this you obviously like podcast and you probably like music to on spotify. You can listen to all of that and what place for free. You don't need a premium account. Spotify has a huge each catalogue of podcasts on every topic including the one. You're listening to right now. Uh spotify you can follow your favorite podcast. You never miss an episode download episodes to listen to off-line flying wherever you are easily share what you're listening to with your friends via spotify integrations was social media platforms like instagram so just search for space news pot on on the spotify app or browse podcasts in your library tab and follow me so you never miss an episode of the space news pod spotify is the world's leading music streaming dreaming service and now it can be your go to for podcasts to hello and welcome back to the space news pod daily podcast about space science and tech. I'm your host. Walden is episode is going to be about nasr's mars helicopter. You're that rate a mars helicopter so this thing it's a very small quad copter think of it is <hes> what else toy drones you could buy from amazon for kinda cheap but this isn't very cheap and it's not very small. It's about the size is of a shoebox with the rotors about <hes> about four feet wide and this helicopter is not mission critical go so they just attached this to the belly of the mars rover in the high one cleanroom at jet propulsion propulsion laboratory in pasadena california sing is solar powered and it has the mars helicopter delivery system which which will deliver well deliver the the helicopter to mars and also that's what helps it launch and <hes> <hes> shields it from debris during entry descent and landing the helicopter will remain encapsulated in the mars helicopter the delivery system after landing deploying to the surface once a suitable area conduct test flights is found in the crater where they land now. It's a very high risk high reward technology demonstration. If this helicopter encounters difficulties difficulties the science of the mars twenty twenty mission won't be impacted but if the helicopter is successful and if it takes flight is designed the future missions to mars could possibly have other quad captors other drone copters. Yes that could deploy when they get there so <hes> spokesman from g._p._l. Said our job is to. I prefer to prove that autonomous controlled flight can be executed in the extremely thin martian atmosphere since our helicopter is designed as a flight test of experimental technology carries no science instruments but if he proved powered flight on mars can work we look forward to the day when mars helicopters aw can play an important role in future explorations of the red planet. Mars is big world and there's lots of geography on mars. There's cliffs caves in deep craters that a rover just can't get too and that's why something like a helicopter like a quad copter is very important to the future missions on the red planet. They can act as scouts. They can film inside caves. They can film inside craters. That could take pictures. They could take amazing photos of things that we would never be able to see if we were just relying on rovers and nasa intends to establish a sustained human presence on the moon through there nasa artemis miss lunar exploration missions and they could possibly use <hes> quite captors on the moon as well so <hes> jim breitenstein nastase administrator said the rate brothers flew the first plane kitty hawk north carolina but they built it in dayton and the mars helicopter destined to be the first aircraft to fly in another world was built in pasadena california join now to the twenty twenty rover. It is yet another example of how nasa artemis generation is expanding humanities reach in our solar system with this joining of two grace spacecraft. I can say definitively. I believe that all the pieces are in place for historic mission of exploration together mars twenty twenty and the mars helicopter will help define the future of science and exploration of the red planet for decades to come mars twenty twenty with the helicopter on board will launch an a u._c._l._a. Atlas five rocket in in july of twenty twenty from space launch complex forty one it cape canaveral air force station in florida in it'll land on mars <music> on february eighteenth of twenty twenty one the rover will be the first space craft and the history of planetary exploration with the ability to accurately re target its point if touchdown during the landing sequence and this new helicopter the mars twenty twenty helicopter it could possibly return so amazing results showing that we can fly a helicopter on another world and if that's the case. There's going to be a lot of saying. It's happening with a lot more helicopters in the future so i want to say thank you to everybody who's been listening today. <hes> good luck to everybody everybody. In florida were therefore you nasa's bunker and down for the hurricane so good luck friends family. <hes> also was thank you to my sponsors without them. I can do this. I host my podcast on anchor f._m. Anchors the easiest way to make a podcast an anchor gives you all the tools that you need in one place for free which you can use from your phone or from your computer now these creation tools allow oh you to record and edit your podcast so it sounds amazing in they'll distribute the podcast for you so it can be heard anywhere. Spotify apple podcasts ogle podcasts in many more in you can easily make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership so download the anchor or go to acre dot f._m. To get started and thank you to my patriot patrons patriot dot com slash space news podcast. Thank you everyone for taking the time of your day to spend here with me on the space news pod. My name is will walden hand. I will see you soon.
SEASON 3 COMING FEB 14TH, AND MORE COOL NEWS!
"Hi, everyone Christina here. One of the co creators of Mars Patel. I am very excited to announce the long-awaited release of season three is upon us. It's just a few days away February fourteenth Valentine's Day. We know you've been waiting a long time and we're so excited. Let you hear the thrilling conclusion to the Mars Patel story. So the listening experience is going to work a little different this season. The first two episodes will be released right here on the Mars Patel feed. And to hear the rest you have a couple of options they'll be releasing the rest of season three weekly over at Pinna dot FM. So after you've listened to the first two here on February fourteenth, you'll be able to head over to penetrate FM to sign up and hear the rest the first thirty days of free, and they have a ton of additional content for kids three eight or if you're a big fan of the show and wanna show your support we've released an amazing nine CD box set of the entire series. It's really cool and even cooler those are available today over at Mars, Patel dot com. And if you don't want the entire box it you can also pick up a copy of season three by itself. So there you have it. We can't thank you enough. And hope you're as excited to hear season three as we are to release it into the world from all of us here at Mars Patel. It's been an amazing ride. Thank you so much for sticking with us too. The stars. Jay. Best robot ever dot com.
#105: Mars, Inc. Victoria Mars: How to work with your family
"Uh-huh. Always encouraging people to go out and take risks. You may fail. That's okay. I think that's one of the biggest struggles I see in today's world is the fear of failure go and try something. It may not work out. That's okay. As long as you learn something from it, don't keep repeating your same failure or good. From ABC. It's no limits. I'm Rebecca Jarvis in each week. We're talking to the most bold and influential women Lang at the top of their game, trying to demystify success and what it really takes to get there in all the trade-offs, whether you're looking for answers or you just want to hear good story. You're in the right place. Today's episode we're taking a look inside one of the oldest family businesses in the world from Eminem's Twix two skittles. There's a good chance. The Mars corporation has been a part of your life. Victoria. Mars is the fourth generation of the Mars family. She grew up working at the chocolate factory of real life Willie walk, but when it came time to think about her own career, she wasn't sure the family business was right for her until she found her own passion, a role. I bet a lot of you listening right now would love to see inside of your company's. Take a listen Vic. Toria. Mars welcome to no limits. Thank you excited. I'm very excited to have you with us, and I wanted to have you here because you're slightly different type of guests than what we traditionally have, but you have this fascinating backstory, your great grandfather is the reason that we all enjoy Twix or Snickers or evidemce. Absolutely. And a lot more actually, we're also in pet food and brands like Whiskas andbranch food like uncle Ben. So we're much more than chocolate. So you are the fourth generation, y'all, the Mars family, and you grew up all around Mars? What I saw as a kid was actually not a lot because we, my parents, my father tried to keep business separate from family, and I never knew that my father or who I was. I really only knew that my father ran a chocolate factory and we would go work with this. Yes, we go work on weekends. We'd have to go help with gardens. We would have to help with just keeping it looking nice. So we, you know, we were just Africa's. There was no way I knew that. And the only way I actually finally knew who I was or what should be was actually when I got the high school because other kids were saying you, you know who you are in your important, and I had no idea what they were talking about really did it. Did it smelt like chocolate by the way in the town where you grew up a, it was actually talking about in Holland in Holland whole it? Yes, it did. When you got close to the factory, there is an odor that comes from chocolate factory there is. So I spent a lot of time at Chicago. I went to school there. I worked there and there is this. There are parts of the city that smell very much like chocolate because there's a factory in Chicago. So you grew up feeling like I'm just like anybody else. But here you are in this family building, one of the world's largest private companies and with names that most people identify with. Most of us have touched or on a probably pretty regular basis consume some product from Mars was business something that you thought about pursuing as a kid where you always interested in business? Not at all. Actually, I was very interested in becoming a doctor, so my all the way through the beginning of college, I was focused on going to medical school and really about the concept of wanting to help people and be a doctor. But somehow in the summertime, when we when I was in college, I worked in the factories in various factories, and my parents believe very much in starting at the bottom. So I packed candy. I pack thirty six bucks count boxes of Eminem's, had a great time with other college kids. It was a lot of fun, but learn the business of how it really operates behind the fancy world of business. Do you think of how long does it take to pack that box of ebbs by the way? Not very long. If you were an experienced. Woman and they were mostly women that were packing on those lines. They were so fast and so quick they can just do. I do it my sleep, but they could really do it while they were having a conversation with somebody else. I need to focus on what I was doing. So you went to Yale? Yes. Then you went to warden studied business at Worden. Yes. In between I worked between between you worked for the family business, and then in nineteen ninety seven, you become the ombudsperson. Yes, for Marceau tell us what an ombudsperson does. Right? So first of all, how I became it on Butson I became an ombudsman. I'd left the business for about five years when I had my third. And then fourth child really realizing that I couldn't do it all. This was not working to have a career, a family, and I wasn't doing well as far as I was concerned on anything. So I stepped away for a while. And then came back into the business looking for opportunities fighting my way back into the business looking for opportunities because in those days you know, it wasn't. You didn't just leave the business and come back on, but we're now in the nineties. And so I felt my way back in and I looked for an opportunity and my father and my uncle had been thinking about, you know, things were volving. They were getting older, the business, getting bigger, how can the family really stay in touch with what is happening in the business? Because you know, you get more layers of management and you don't hear the truth when you're sitting up high. So the concept they developed the concept and they said at a meeting you you, we are going to launch this new program and my niece and daughter sitting out in the audience because I happened to be at the sales meeting, an MR said, is going to be our own butts men. That was my introduction to how to respond to respond to that. They were like, oh, and I and I went up on stage and they said, so say Hello. I said, can I. Can I say something? No, thank you. We just wanted to introduce you off. I went so I asked if you could say something while you were on stage? Yeah. All they wanted to just was kind of introduced. This is what we're doing. I went. I had no idea what not butts was. So I then went and did the research and looked into what isn't on Butman. How do I get the training? How do I launch program and then just embarked on launching this bud Smith program, and the program really is about providing an alternative channel of communication for all of our socio. And we call our employees associates to have a place to go to resolve any work related issue. And what makes it on buds been different from other channels? Is that a is confidential and absolutely confidential, so and I'm busband does not need to tell anybody who we speak to us butts men and person coming to. You doesn't need to tell anybody either it's informal. So it's an off the record kind of thing. It's. As independent as you can be employed by business, or you're a contractor being employed by the business, but you're independent from the standard management. So your line, it goes straight up to the CEO or the chairman, so you don't get encumbered by any of the levels of management saying, I don't wanna hear what's happening, and then it's neutral. And that's actually the biggest challenge of being an ombudsman is being neutral. So you're not an advocate for the person coming to you and you're not advocate for the business advocate for fair process. You're trying to help people get over whatever the hurdle is bringing to you and become productive. Again, happy again, find the right solution. And for me, that was a huge opportunity to find my passion of what I really was about. And because I said to you, I wanted to be a doctor originally, and I wasn't quite sure all these years. I kept saying maybe I should go back to medical school. Maybe I should be doing this when I got the buds and opportunity all. All of a sudden, I realize really what being Dr for me was about helping other people. And so when I started this program launched this program with Embiid within mar starting just in North America and then making global, I found my passion and I was satisfied, and I was no longer feeling this need to perhaps go to medical school and do something something different. It's interesting. My the school I went to growing up was a Montessori school, and there wasn't ombudsman, and I think the class voted on it and it was in various grades and it worked in a very similar way to what you're discussing. Do other companies is this common? Is that a role that you would find in most corporate companies most? No. But you will find in other corporations connections to Europe or is it. No, it's America American things. Big corporations have had come and gone. Everything's one of the issues with course ombudsman program. It's it's, you are an added cost. And sometimes what happens as CEO changes or somebody says, this is a cost burden. We can cut this human resources can take care of this. Our compliance company group could take care of this. So unfortunately of rationalized out. But there are big American Express used to have a huge program Coca-Cola's had a huge program. Many of the oil companies have had us program, so it kind of comes and goes, I've been, I've been retired from it for a couple years now, so I'm not up to date on which corporations have it, but it's one you keep trying to promote because it's such a, it's a way of empowering your people and making them feel like there's always somewhere they can go when they have an issue, they don't feel they're boxed in or they have to go outside for complaint. It's really about saying, hey, we care about you, you, you matter to us. Us, we want to try and help. You know, we're not perfect. And the other thing that also does high helping individuals as an ombudsman group, you assemble information and trends you're looking for trends, what's working, what's not working, what policies that are good, what policies that need some changing or adaptation or things you may not even know need changing and you. That's what you feedback to management to say, hey, this is what we're hearing from our people. These are the things that aren't working, so it's not the individuals, but it's more the trend looking at and that and that influences management to make Mars a better place to work to help make Mars more attractive place to work because we're constantly listening to our people and finding buds bins a channel to to do that different perspective. You know, management gets one perspective, the associates himself have a perspective and the unless has affected kind of bring it all together. I would imagine there are a lot of people listening right now thinking, gee, I really wish this existed at my company. So what can you tell us about for the employee who's out there thinking, I wish this existed. It doesn't. Communication, communication, communication. I think the biggest issue that actually happens and why there were things that aren't working well is lack of communication. People aren't talking to each other. People aren't taking the time to actually have a conversation. So if you were a manager of other people, what could you be offering your people that work for you is actually giving them time and listening actively listening to what's going on in their life? What's working, what's not working, not two seconds here two seconds. They're one of the things that buds does really well is I have all the time in the world to listen to you. You don't need to give me your story in two seconds. I tell me the whole story, give me the whole perspective. So I think one of the best things that people managers can do is give their so suits time and listen and and and be compassionate, doesn't mean you have to -gree with them. But show something that you, you can empathize with what they're going through and wanna try and help them without saying, I'm going to fix it for you or or you know, it was all my fault, not your fault, but just this sense of empathy and listing. I think the key such a key point because there are so many. I mean the last ten years since the financial crisis companies have been constrained, they've cut costs, they've cut corners. The average employee does the job of three employees, and that small thing of just listening can actually make a massive difference. If you're going to pinpoint in corporate America today, one change that could be made that would improve life for employees beyond listening. What would that change. I think the word magical word for me that helped me and it's not always possible, but a sense of flexibility and sense of understanding this, I think probably applies mostly to women, but it's not always necessarily a sense of flex of op flexible and also the opportunity understanding of different life stages and different needs at different times in your life. And so it comes back to the listening. But I think the important part is is a career and your working life is not a straight line such a good point. Yeah. And for you, it wasn't a straight line for me. It hasn't been a straight line. What about the the overall story of Mars today? Companies have changed so much in the last handful of years, what they're looking for. His changed so much. Consumer that millennial consumer has really driven what a lot of companies are doing and Mars overtime has been somewhat quiz if you've acquired numerous brands over the years that have made the company larger when you're out there looking for the right product and the right brand, what what does Mars want? The first thing for us, our principles values, the five principles are at the core of how we do business, and we always talk about it's not just it's not just the what, it's not how big we are. It's not about how much money we're making. It's about how we go about doing business. How do we own trust? How do we earn respect? So when we're out looking for other brands or other businesses, that is a key component, what are some of the big categories of particular interest right now? Well, care is our is our very much of a growing part of our business and everyone loves their pet. Everybody loves her pets and. Are such an important part of your family. And obviously we're still very proud about of our of our chocolate confectionery products and and finding a way to get that to to meet the needs of people. Today, we understand that you know there are issues out there, what will we play in helping that versus hindering making putting calorie counts on making smaller portions, helping people make responsible decisions about what they're consuming in their life. But you know, a treat is a wonderful thing. You know, we all realize that packaged goods is something we've all grown up with and it's done some good things, but it also some things that have happened that nobody I think is set out to do, but you realize that you know sugar gets added as you know to packaged goods, not because somebody said out and let me let me add sugar to these things. And so we're looking at saying, wait a minute. Why is sugar in this product? How do we take sugar out of our tomato sauce? And that also it goes back into so many different things because why did. People start putting sugar in tomato sauce? I, when I make my own tomato sauce, I don't put sugar. Right, right. Why? Because the quality of the tomatoes, if you're not getting ripe, tomatoes that are tasty, right? And they're processing you have that sugar to bring out the taste. So if you get better quality, tomatoes, you don't need to add the sugar. So it's all it's all so intertwined and connected, and we really get passionate about influencing and doing the right thing and living our principles and our values which comes back to. That's why. When we look at other brands, look at what we're doing those principles and values are at the foundation of everything. When I think about the food space, especially I think of it like a boomerang where we started in one spot. We went way out and now everything's coming back around to be more natural organic, trying to be more back to basics growing up. Did you have restrictions on how many treats you're allowed to have a day? Absolutely. There of Snickers bars. Well, just couldn't. You know, my mother's idea of dessert was fruit, so. Remember family to? No, that's not desert. Where's the brownies. Exactly so, but we were always desert watermelon, but we always had candy available and we always, you know, cookies and we baked. And so we cookies cakes, whatever that was always available. No, you weren't allowed to leave off of that Brit. Mars treat changes. I always tell people change is absolutely goes in cycles, and it depends. I could be part of the world where I can get something that I can't get here. So Maltesers used to not be available in the US they are now, but they weren't teaser. Multi is like a multiple. It comes in lovely red package with Whiteman Maltese, just new coming into the into the US, but it's been a brand we've had forever. So I would go to somewhere like the UK and I would see teasers. So that would be my preferred brand because I can't get it somewhere else. So it changes. I mean, I go up and down in different phases, but there's not a day that goes by that. I do not have a piece of candy a piece of chocolate or something. I, I love. I love. Probably I need that little sweetness the nifty a lot. Just a little. You talk about the fact that your parents, it was very important to them that you had an appreciation and that you worked. What was your thinking along the way when it did sort of become when when people started to acknowledge wait a minute, Victoria, your last name is a very big deal. How much did that come into play and how do you think that changed your approach to life? It's definitely did change my approach life when I was a teenager. It was very upsetting because then all of a sudden you start to say, well, there's somebody like me because I have this big box of candy that they can access to or somebody like me because of who I am so that that kind of is the initial. It gives me lonely. It's lonely. It's sad, but I think as time went on there, there was a point where I realized even though I had worked probably at least the first ten years of my career was very much like everybody else. You know, I very much I, I worked with colleagues and we're all. Same age. We all had a good time. We had fun and I didn't really feel any any different. I, there was a face where all of a sudden, and I'm not quite sure what triggered that, but I all of a sudden was like, oh, I, I wait a minute. I am different, and one of the difficult things is what makes you do is makes you doubt whether you are capable and doing a job and have a job because you're capable of doing it, or do you have that job because of who you are? It was when I got the butts program and realize that I was following my passion, and I think it's so important to find your passion, something that you really are excited about because your careers can go on for a long time, and there's lots of time that you'll be working and just work to work without being excited about who you work for principles and values align or what your job is and what you're doing. If so, obviously critical. So once I when I did get the ombudsman job and started to launch that and develop. That program. That was the real turning point for me to say, yes, I am doing this job and I am capable. So that's one of the difficult things when you're your own family business is you're always going, you know, am I really successful or only successful? Because my last name and I didn't have the opportunity to work outside the business, just I'm the eldest fortune rations is just not what happened. The the expectation kind of happened, and it was kind of just there. Those that can behind me had more opportunity to work outside and for the next generation, we're definitely saying, you know, you need to get some experience outside. You're welcome to have a career Mars. We want family members working, but you need, you need to get some outside for your own your own wellbeing. Really. It's not just for the business it so you can say, yes, I am capable of competing in another world and also competing within my own my own family business world. That's such an interesting point about. Out sort of the revelation of finding your place because even though you came to it in a slightly different way that a lot of people, I think getting to that moment in your career where you think this is what I was meant to do. Mars was founded in nineteen eleven. Most companies by the second or third generation are no longer in the hands of the family. What's the secret to making that work with a family? We'll be right back with more Victoria Mars after a quick word from our sponsor. When it comes to hiring, you don't have time to waste. You need help getting your shortlist of qualified candidates fast. That's why you need indeed, dot com. Get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast, that's indeed dot com. Slash podcast. What's the secret to making that work with a family. I think one of the things is is understanding that the family business evolves from being, you know, the founder to to the siblings to the cousins. You need to start putting processes in place to help manage family relationships that interact with business. So it's not personal. Right? And it's about what are we going to do most importantly when things aren't going? Well, yeah. When there's conflict between you and I, how are we going to handle that? Or when your daughter is not performing in the business, we going to manage that. So it's really about making sure you're, you're aware that it's going to not be and the more you could do to prepare the better and then communication. Again, back to communication, you've gotta talk to each other. You've gotta meet together. You have to spend time. Understanding each other and being willing to, you know, compromise align find a way to line and agree. And I think that's where those principles come back really help us because we all have that common foundation. We all wanna keep this business private. We all are very proud of what it stands for. But we note all takes a lot of hard work to keep to keep it going. What's the benefit of keeping it private. That's always an interesting question. I think the clear benefit, icy it as you get to control your own destiny of your company, you you. You get to say, we are excited about this and we want to invest in this in the long term. So you know, mostly people say, well, lousy to think long-term. We're not thinking about what's going to happen next quarter. I'm thinking about, okay, I make this investment in ten years. It may pay off and I could be patient about about getting there. I think that's probably the most important thing you should as family business should be able to understand where your risk level is, but should be able to take some of those risks because you know, and you're willing to be patient about what the outcome will be so, but I think to be, you know, you're, you're controlling your own destiny. You're able to influence, you're able to keep those principles and those values in there. You able to really influence your reputation by building. Trust by making sure that you operate the way you say you're going to going to operate. What's been the toughest lesson for you along the way. The the toughest lesson for me along the way has been really probably probably like many women I think is most part is realizing that you can't have it all all the time and that you have to make choices. And you know whether you're juggling, family, parents, whatever your issues are, you're juggling so many things in life and thinking that you're going to be able to do the all the time really well, just I is very frustrating demotivating actually. So realizing that you have to make choices at different time. Choices are going to be different for different people at different time. But if making those choices allows you to them focus on what you need to do at that point in time. You come back to it later when I took the time away from work and said, I can't do all of this and was was stay at home more or less. That was what I needed then. And when. When my children I was ready to go back. I was able to say, okay, I can now focus more on my career. And then when my children were grown and away from home, I could really focus on my career. So finding, you know, life life Volvo and the changes in their different stages, and it's not always going to be the same and you've got to, you've got to make those choices and be okay by it's okay. It's okay. And we, as businesses are learning to adapt to that concept. We wanna keep people working for us. We need people that want to stay with us for their careers, an do that. You have to adapt your processes and understand that people may have to come and go. The people may be able to say careers my number one right now, and then all of a sudden you're like, women. I've got little babies running at home career. Can't be my number one. I still in committed, but I've got other priorities that I'm trying to juggle and help me juggle. Those helped me make those right choices and I'll be loyal to you because you will have supported. While it was tough. I think a lot of a lot of people might think that having a some big wealth at your disposal would make choices like that easier, but the struggles are still the same. Some of that mental calculus and the emotional side of it is still the same. Absolutely. Because you're, you're constantly your stood, the guilt. It's the same. It's the same for everybody. You've lived clearly a purpose driven life and you've integrated that into the company. Sustainability is something that's very important to you. And as I was reading about your story, I was thinking a lot about this conversation we had with Tory Burch, not that long ago where she talked about the importance of coupling social responsibility, social impact with being a company and that that was not invoke ten years ago when she was initially talking about it. How have you navigated that. If I go back and look, we, you know our history and for the times you know, I think we've always been conscious of sustainability for years and years and years. So it was natural again in our principles on our bags about how we do business. But in the last five years, we've stepped it up and said, wait a minute. We need to do more than what we've been doing. We need to set some really strong targets at the livelihoods fund that I've worked on that I'm actually part of with Danone that is about improving the livelihood smallholder farmers around the world pardoning collaborating with people. You can't do by yourself. This is not a world where you know we Mars can go out and solve the problems, but we businesses can go out work together to try and find how to resolve some of the issues in our supply chain, how how can we help? Our farmers have a livelihood that's acceptable Haakan we make sure they're children are going to school and it's all about test and learn. I mean, it's all you know, there's not one solution, so working with others and testing this and this model work great. Where do I take it and put it somewhere else? That's exciting. It's exciting. To realize that you are a business and you can use the business to achieve a purpose beyond just being a business and you use the business to make people's lives better. What is the worst advice you've received along the way. At the worst advice I received was when I was back in the late seventies now and it's haunted me to this day. So it's, I was my grandfather. I was living in Europe and my grandfather on my mother's side passed away while I was living in Europe. And at that point and that point, you know, one didn't just fly across the ocean. It wasn't quite the way this today in the recommendation had been, you don't need to go home for the funeral. It's really, you know, we had work and it wasn't easy to get back and forth. And you know, I don't remember what all the argument was, but basically the recommendation was, you know, don't get on a plane and go home for the funeral, and I've forgotten that. And it's because family is so important. And even, you know, when your business woman and you're working and you're balancing family and all these things, and you've gotta balance your priorities and you've got to not forget who you are and what matters in life. And family matters to me. Family matters a lot. So. To me, that's one of these things that you know, I I, you know, whenever I see somebody else in similar situation like that, I'll say, go do not not go because you will regret it. You will feel like you missed it. You weren't there. You didn't get the support and you weren't able to support the rest of the family. It's kind of works both ways. You didn't get what you needed and and you weren't able to be there with with your family to to to experience it. So I find that regret come so much more frequently in life when we don't pursue something as opposed to when we do what it doesn't work out. You're probably absolutely right because I'm always encouraging people to go out and take a risk you may fail. That's okay. I think that's one of the biggest struggles I see into days world is the fear of failure go and try something. It may not work out. That's okay. As long as you learn something from it, don't keep repeating you're saying failure or good, but you're right this this, I think you're absolutely right. When you're talking about this, this the don't versus. Try it. It may work. It may not work. It's okay. And I think that's probably the best advice is go take a few risks, intelligent. I, I don't need to go go, go jump off that mountain, and that's a good idea. But you know things that that feel like they're a risk and that may not work out and you may fail. You've got to be able to fail on life. You've got to be able to pick yourself back up. And if you have a great support system around you, you can pick yourself back up and they'll be people there to to help you through the struggles after you failed. Absolutely. My parents used to always say to make growing up, what's the worst thing that can happen? The only thing they wouldn't have been cool with as me going and jumping off the mountain. Victoria, Mars. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much of this. Likewise. All right. It's the end of the interview, which means it's time for our no limits entrepreneur of the week where we feature. One of you are amazing listeners who's building something of your own. And this week's no limits entrepreneur is Hannah margin. She's the founder and designer of seven swim Hannah's started the company as a sophomore in college. She's actually still fulltime student now finishing her degree online so she can focus on that business. She comes from a family of entrepreneurs, both her parents and her two siblings started companies. So she has a lot of inspiration around her what I really appreciate and respect about Hannah's her drive starting this company. So young also catering to market. She felt had a white space, high quality swimwear at an affordable price. That's also eco-friendly as a college student. Hannah says that she couldn't afford expensive swimwear and as an avid beachgoer she grew up ten minutes from the water. That was important to her here. She is to tell you more Hello. My name is Hannah. Mark, John nine, the founder and designer of seven swim that unique and sustainable became line. I started seven swim live so sophomore at the university of Florida in still full-time caution today, along with running the company. Seven swim was born from my love of the beach in constant search for the perfectly fitting bikini. Seven swim is created to fill the gap for people looking for a beautiful and sustainable swimwear outta more for -able price. All of our styles prints colors are unique to our brand and are designed with the help and input of our meeting in community of Brandon bass tres. We're just over a year old. I am so excited to see where the company goes in the coming years. Congratulations, Hannah. Wishing you continued success. Remember listeners you can out on over to my Instagram at Rebecca Jarvis to hear more from Hannah and how she created her business and don't forget if you or someone you know should be featured here on no limits. Is the entrepreneur, the week, or you have a career questions on them here to me at no limits with RJ podcast at g mail. Dot com. I know how busy we all are, and when you write, it means a lot. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Also. Thank you so much to those of you who have been leaving us reviews like this one from magic who writes absolute best podcasts. The content never gets old love, Rebecca, Jarvis, and the question she asks, well, thank you, magic. I really appreciate that. I bet if we met, I love you too. Before we go here today, I wanted to take a few minutes to say a special. Thank you to a member of the no limits team who has been with us from the start. She's been our editor from day one Michelle. Then Cardo who works for ABC radio and has done incredible work for us. She just works around the clock. She, she starts her day before many of us do at four AM. She's here throughout the day, helping with breaking news reports and interviews, and of course with everything that we do here on no limits and she is moving on to a new opportunity. So. Thank you so so much, Michelle Cardo who will be editing this episode. So Michelle is your editing this episode. I hope that you feel the love and support of all of us here at the podcast because you've been such a great support to all of us. And I know all of our guests have really enjoyed getting to know you as wealth throughout this process. So best wishes to you with all things ahead, which I know will be all good things. Add. Finally shout out to our wonderful team here that helps make this happen every week. My producer Taylor done editor, Michelle van Cardo. Our newest editor Brittany Martinez research assistant anyo sock way. And the ABC radio team. David Rhind, Elizabeth Russo, Josh Cohen, Andrew kelp, and Steve Jones. AM. Dan Harris from ABC news and I have a podcast and you listen to it, it's called ten percent happier. It's all about how to stay sane. In our increasingly insane world. We talked to everybody from the Dalai Lama both. Both for human due to rupaul. You have to explore this life. It's fun and interesting may even change your life. You can listen to it for free on apple podcasts or on your favorite podcast app.
11. Ryan MacDonald - Earth, Mars, then beyond. How do we know whats out there?
"I work on researching the atmospheres of exit pundits. I try and figure out what the air on these alien world is actually made of ultimately with the long term goal of trying to figure out. Is there life elsewhere in the universe? And what are these distant worlds weighty like today I'm speaking to Ryan McDonald? Met Him to recall the podcast the Cambridge University's Institute of astronomy where he works he's also the mind successful youtube channel. Moshing colonist is full of passion and knowledge wants to motivate and inspire the next generation to speak questions and solve bigger problems. Anything's one of the best ways to do this. Space exploration after speaking with him. I'm inclined to agree. I really enjoyed talking to him and I hope you enjoy this conversation Ryan McDonald. I think good place to start with the conversation about Mars is. Why do we need to go there so knowingly? Why do we go? There is a species. But why do we actually need to put humans onto the surface of the planet? So Mas is a particularly fascinating object because if we look at all of the other planets and bodies that we have in the solar system MAS is the only one beyond the earth that we reliably no once had a period where it was so dramatically. Different that we actually believe that Mars would have been habitable around four billion years ago if we look back historically back in the time of the Victorians for instance it was thought that Mars might actually be a habitable planet already. There might be Martians there. And obviously that didn't turn out to be the case. There weren't any canals on Mars and although the very initial missions that we sent to Mars let the Maron emissions in the nineteen sixties presented this this image of a dry dead world. That was such a disappointment to what the public had been expecting. The image of Mars has really changed in recent years now that for example Rovers on the surface of Mars have discovered sedimentary rock deposits indicating that lakes and maybe even an ocean in the northern hemisphere. Must have been stable for hundreds of millions of years and so. It's this question where we know. Mars was habitable. But we don't yet know whether it was inhabit turt- or even could still be perhaps microbial life beneath the surface of Mars today so mars links into some very deep philosophical questions. All we alone in the universe. How did life itself? Actually start. Is Life on earth. Unique is the only way that life can function if we go to Mars and we find signs of life on there. We can start to answer some of these deep questions for the very first time so there are some fascinating scientific questions to address on. Mars but of course you might imagine. Well we could do this. By sending robotic missions and indeed. They're all robotic missions plans like the European Space Agency are planning to send a mission to Maza Rover called X. Omar's in twenty twenty one. That will be the first mission since the Viking landers in the seventies to explicitly look for signs of life on Mars in this case by drilling about two meters beneath the surface so why send humans to Mars well if we look it anywhere else in the solar system that we could send people don't Land Safina's lasts an hour. The moon is fantastic for industry. And there's love resources up there but it's bombarded by micrometeorites. It doesn't have an atmosphere. It's not a sustainable place to live. In the long term Mars has an atmosphere. It's temperature sure is on the cold side about minus fifty degrees Celsius on average but just last year in that big ice and frost on the hit North America. There were large parts of north. America were colder than Mars at that particular point. Mars is one place where with technology that we already have today and a little and a few areas that need to be developed. We can imagine actually living there in the long-term since we know Mars was a habit whole plant in the past and that a large fraction of those resources like the ocean that used to be there in the northern hemisphere a decent fraction of that is frozen at the northern and southern poder. Ice So one of the questions is could we turn back the clock could we transformers into a habitable planet again such that we can have a second home not just for humanity but for all life on earth to protect it from extinction the long term and Mars the only other place that we know of that we can even think about doing this? Yeah I think that's the argument. The Elon Musk likes to put forward. Isn't it that for the survival of our species? At some point that probably will be an extinction event of some description. It's up to the vast majority of life has ever happened. Clone on Earth. Ninety nine point nine percent of all life is extinct. I mean the argument is commonly made. But I think it's a little bit more on the pessimistic side. I don't think that we should go to Mars out of fear that there's going to be an imminent extinction event because although it it may happen in the future. Statistically it's probably many many human lives maybe a thousand years from now. I think we should actually go to Mars out of hope. Not Out of fear because when we look at how inspired the world was by the Apollo Moon landings starting in nine hundred sixty nine up to nine hundred seventy two. You can actually trace statistics. How many people were doing physics in the United States? How many people were studying science in school? And the former went up by a factor three after the moon landings the number signs went by a factor of two and we're still seeing the economic impacts of all these young people that were inspired to go into science technology engineering and mathematics. So do you think the biggest reasons to get two miles? Is the social impact. It has on on our culture the inspiration I would absolutely say is the key benefit that we would get immediately. You can think about the long-term aspects about five species but in the near-term the inspiration will change the world. That's such a great message. Such a good reason so let's talk a little bit about some of the missions planned in order to get there so we mentioned Elon. Musk a second ago. He is the founder of SPACEX SPACEX. Quite good at gang into the media things like putting the Tesla roadster into orbit billion pieces of advertising absolutely genius. But where were they in terms of the Mars mission? What going on the they've done tons of the last year or two to show the world that the rockets are a ready and be reusable which is just crazy so this is because Elon. Musk space x in particular. Have made no secret that the entire reason the company exists is to create the technology to actually send people to Mars but there wasn't really much concrete information about how they were going to do this in the public domain until twenty sixteen when Elon. Musk gave a a big public presentation where he spoke for an hour about space x vision to create a rocket. Unlike anything that has been seen before using all of the lessons. They have learned about how you need to have reusable rocketry if it's going to be cheap enough to actually get large amounts of cargo and eventually people into space. They are working on a system which has changed a number of times and has been revised over the years. But at the moment the system it's called starship and super heavy. It's a two stage rocket that would have a huge booster at the bottom. Not Not that much bigger than existing rockets. But it's much wider sexually nine meters in diameter and it would have thirty one engines at the bottom making it. The most powerful rocked in the world far more powerful than the Saturn five moon rocket and on top of this booster is a giant spaceship. That looks like something from science fiction and the big difference is we're not talking about sending four people six people or so to Mars that has been the the frequent historical picture that Nassar has been pursuing since the Apollo Moon landings. Starship could send a hundred people to Mars. We're talking a mongering in one go. I mean it would have to use as a fuel into orbit and then you have to send up a number of tankers spacecraft docked with it and refueling. It's such a big heavy vehicle but yeah one hundred people or one hundred tons in one. Go to Mars and this completely changes the picture when we no longer thinking about small little pods on the surface of Mars. This is where you can seriously tough start thinking about building a small village or a town or maybe city one day on Mars. It just fundamentally changes the picture when you can send that many people in that much master Mars. Wausau timescale of they go. This is where it gets crazy. Because although they're proposing something that's far more ambitious than anything. Space Agency of proposing they're proposing to decades before Nassar currently considering so officially Nassarawa targeting sending people to all around Mars in twenty thirty three at the moment and then notionally having a landing maybe around twenty thirty seven. What would be the point in sending them into orbit? If they're not gonNA lend them sending them all way. How many months does it take? It takes about seven months to get to Ma so we're really thinking about a two year mission there and back see. That's a very common criticism. Why send people to orbit and just not do anything like a lot of risk without the reward? Yeah it is very much inspired by the Apollo mentality where we started by orbiting the moon on one of the earlier Apollo missions into Apollo ten. We should everything that Apollo eleven did apart from landing but also when you're spending so much time to get there why not land. You can come up with some justifications for example the moons of Mars Phobos and Demos are fascinating objects. We have no idea how they actually formed. They look like asteroids but they're actually almost perfectly circular orbits which you wouldn't expect asteroids to have so. There's there are some mysteries you can solve by going there and you could tell you. Operate Rovers on the surface of Mars. If you had astronauts on one of the moons of Mars so you wouldn't have to deal with the lag so there are some advantages. But I don't think over all they justify not going to land so we're looking at about twenty thirty seven and then if factory in possible delays everything. We're really talking about the twenty four before space agency would actually go there. It always seems to be about twenty years away. Unfortunately spacex talking about twenty twenty four to try and send the First People Tomasz now. I don't think they will actually meet that deadline renowned obsessing ridiculous true yes even go name Ilan time but the remarkable thing about space sexists that although they set ambitious goals and they almost always miss the goals. They do what they say. Eventually they do actually get that. Everyone was laughing at spacex when they said they were going to start reusing that rockets and now it is routine to see these rocket boosters coming down firing their engines and then landing either on stationary. Landing Pads are on ships out in the ocean. The first time I saw that absolutely my mind I was just looking for the strings. It does look like something. Thunderbirds doesn't it's absolutely mind-bending. It's like something from science fiction but it's now routine and space is still the only company that can do this for orbital class rockets. There is blue origin that can do it with the suborbital rocket. But besides that no governments doing this yet. They're taking advantage of it for example in in my own field one of our scopes the Transiting Exit Survey Satellite or tests was actually launched on a falcon nine so the reasonable Roxbury is already starting to benefit governmental organizations and particularly science but still space x the only player in the game their plan. Roughly would be to develop this starship and super heavy rocket try and launch the first one without anyone onboard to Mars in twenty twenty two. That would set up some very basic infrastructure like a fuel refinery for instance to make the fuel that the star actually uses which is actually sistership. Doesn't use stand rocket fuel. Which is an gear can be kerosene and liquid oxygen. It's it's a complicated thing to actually make. But starship has been designed to use liquid methane and liquid oxygen. And that's because you can actually make those two things on Mars just from ice beneath the surface and carbon dioxide from the Martian atmosphere. So you can refuel yourself. On the surface of Mars. They would establish at the Infrastructure Mars before people go and then launched people to Mars so although I think twenty twenty four. Maybe a little bit ambitious. I would be surprised if they weren't there by twenty thirty one so I should say that. You can't launch to Mars anytime you like. If you're trying to be energy efficient. There is a two year gap which we call a launch window which is why it tends to be a mission launch to Mars roughly every two years thus today with the distance between Earth and Mars in the Office Yep so because Moss's further out. It orbits more slow than the earth around the sun and so we have to wait until they get to just the right position that we can then send mission efficiently between them. So that's called the the Hoffman Transferral. Bits and is about twenty six months between each launch window. Okay we can precisely calculate when to launch its mission just from orbital mechanics. You mentioned the atmosphere of Mars. It's got to within. Wells is made up of yes of the majority of the Martian atmosphere is carbon dioxide. It does also have nitrogen and Argonne in the atmosphere both inert gases. We do see very very small. Trace amounts of gases like oxygen. Nowhere near enough to be at what we're talking about. Almost everything from co two is like this tiny slice just a couple percent of the atmosphere. One thing that's been particularly interesting in recent years is the question of whether or not there is methane in the atmosphere of Mars because naturally methane should be destroyed in the Martian atmosphere just from chemical reactions and from sunlight destroying it so the amount of methane that some tasks have seen suggests that there must be a source of me think something producing it and on the earth one of the greatest source of methane is life. Would you also get that from volcanic eruptions as well absolutely and this is why there? There's controversy there because there could also be geological processes if you have stores of methane locked inside of Mas and then this massive quake or something happens to release it then you could also produce anything but at the moment is not definitively settled as to whether they're even as always not methane on Mars some missions have seen it. Curiosity is even seen it on the surface and the last few years but then there are satellites orbiting. Mars have not seen it. So you can't breathe. The atmosphere. Mas At the moment is also a lot thinner than what we have on the Sony. About not point nine percent the total pressure of what we have on the Earth which has some interesting implications because if you imagine having a block of ice on the surface of Mars and heated up. It doesn't actually turn into water. It turns directly into steam purchase. We call supplementation going straight from a solid into a gas. And that's because there isn't enough pressure to actually cause the atoms to be close enough to behave like a liquid. Just the second that you melt the solid flies apart into a gas around that if you were actually on the surface of Mars if you want to have liquid water what would the process be there. You wouldn't be on the surface but inside of your habitats. They would be pressurized right so then everything would behave as normal and signed. You probably wouldn't have the exact same pressure that we have on the surface of the earth because The higher the pressure inside and lower the pressure outside the greater force and stress that you put on your habitats so by having a lower Prussia perhaps what people might experience on the top of mountains on earth? Then you don't need to make the structures quite rigid and quite as reinforced. We would have a low a pressure but people would be able to adapt to it because their entire communities living in mountain ranges in Peru for instance that have adapted to incredibly low oxygen concentrations and lower pressures. We wouldn't quite go. That high that low in pressure say yes so inside the habitat liquid water would exist fine. Well lets get snow for the people who are GONNA go first. We came all this way. There's no water. So behind spacex the leaders at the moment. Who else have we got? You mentioned blue origin. How far they on their process so blue origin is a company founded by Jeff Bezos. The founder of Amazon. They have the advantage that they have effectively infinite money to pour into it that there in the early stage at the moment then looking firstly at trying to get space tourism to work potentially flying by the end of this year. But it's just a tiny little capsule that were just straight up the second that you've crossed the line space. The capsule goes into free fall and people see the they wave and then the comeback down. They are working on a much larger rocket that they call new Glen and that is a folk and heavy class rocket that jumping straight from a tiny little rock that can just reach space skipping the Falcon nine stage in going straight to just mega rocket pretty much. So they're not gonNA use the space spacex workers for their missions they can create their the Ronin yet and they have their they make their own engines that building the rockets that are completely independent. Deva and they're it. Seems the only other competition SPACEX has in terms of reusable rocketry? Blue origin actually managed to land then new shepherd vehicle. This tyler rocket they have at the moment. Just before spacex manage to falk nine that they completely different challenges though an orbital rocket landing as far harder than a suborbital rocket but blue origin. Very much folks at the moment on the moon in the last three years they've actually been developing moon. Land called Blue Moon which they officially unveiled just in the last month. Or so which is very well timed because. Nassar are pushing very heavily for the moon at the moment and so when blue origin announce. Oh you want to go to the moon and guess what we have just happened to have this land. We've been designing for three years. Do you want to buy it? Very business savvy. Yeah Yeah it's kind of an easy prediction to make because if you look historically at the focus of NASA every time a new administration comes in they flip between the Moon Maas. It's very reliable because no president wants to fulfil the legacy of their predecessor. And this is part of the reason why NASA hasn't got to Mars because if you keep proposing a mission which is twenty years down the line by definition you can never achieve rates in the eight year of presidency. It's a shame that politics can get in the way of these scientific research missions. And that's that's why I'm particularly excited so much by these private enterprises because it it just changes the game. You don't have to worry about the next election cycle complete changing the focus so of the space x and blue origin. The only other one I have come across the I've seen a very well thought out. Mission objective is the reason that I have about you. And that's miles one now. I think I've reading about miles one about four years ago It just seems so exciting that they set themselves just show schedule and they said they were going to do it for a fraction of the price that everybody else was the primary reason be able to do that was because it was a one way mission applied for this. I'm just trying to understand. How did you justify in your head? You will be able to go to Mars forever shorts. Do I mean I I had about Mas one in twenty twelve? They were originally founded in twenty eleven. So quite a quite a while ago now and I remember at the time. I watched some of the first videos that they'd put out really struck me. That here was what actually saying. Look we're GONNA go to Moslem. We'RE GONNA go to Mars quickly within ten years. This wasn't just a mission to go and plant a flag collect some samples and return. This was going directly to the settlement phase building a base on the surface of Mars. Which as a kid when I was growing up this was the science fiction dream but it always seems so far down the line if NASA. We're going to go in the Twenty Thirties. Would we have a base by twenty sixty just seems something that I would never get to see When Malzahn announced that plans and that they were going to a one way trip in this was the critical innovation would make it feasible with existing technology. That was groundbreaking at the time. Mars one got so much attention the meter it's very catchy headline it really captures. The imagination does so intense. My own reasoning. I've been fascinated with Mars. My entire life for the question of is there life on Mars. And what does that mean for life on the earth? When I started reflecting particularly twenty thirty when I had a chance to meet the founder of Mars WanNa talk gave Edinburgh. I reflect a lot about what actually matters in life at the end. The day is if you think about what you actually want to achieve and Willett actually matter in the long term there were two things that drove me the search for life in the universe and inspiring children and young people to want to be scientists when they grow up and so I realized that if I were to do a one way mission to Mars it seemed to me that the potential payoffs of doing something like this in terms of just making the world a better place. It felt almost like selfish. Not Do something like this even just from signing up the opportunities that I had to promote human spaceflight science engineering etc it created a platform that I wouldn't have been able to access any other way so in many ways my science communication endeavors in the years since have been shaped quite a lot from the experience that I've had with Mars one but I should say that the game has changed so much since Mars one announced that plan because when they came aboard there was no reusable. Rocketry people were talking about it. But it wasn't actually achieved until the end of Twenty fifteen and reasonable. Rocketry is another key factor. That makes things so much more insight because Moslem. We're talking about the mission being cheap because of it being one way but when you add into rg like making fuel from local resources. That spacex suing reasonable to make it cheap and the fact that SPACEX and now talking about Iraq can send one hundred instead of four like Mars. One were envisioning. It's changed the paradigm into what you actually do. The point where technologically speaking return missions to Mars probably will be possible and that you don't need to do way trips. If we pursue a model light SPACEX are doing now that technologically. I still think the first crew that goes to Mars should sign up with the expectation that it will be a one way trip. Part of that is just the risk involved. But also if you're on mass you're one of the very first cruise you're creating all the infrastructure and everything that we needed that if another crew comes two years later and then you just cycle out. Mars is trying really hard to kill you. It's not a good place to and so you need the expertise of the first crew there to help the second crew and continually expand the settlement and there are so many unknowns in terms of how human biology would react in the reduced gravity environment on Mars. It could be the case where your muscles and bones would waste away to the point that if you were to return to Earth. Then you've got seven months of zero G and then you're exposed to about five or six g during reentry if your bones are so brittle and thin you might not even survive reentry on the earth with. Ibm worry about the heart. As well with with waste away with not having to pump his heart in lower gravity it was a very pressing concern in the early days of human spaceflight that we sent someone into space. They would immediately die because their heart wouldn't be able to function zero g of that to not be the case and we now know a lot more about how fluids behave in reduced gravity environments so my speculation. That shouldn't be too much of an issue. I'd be much more concerned. With the ribcage fracturing during Reentry for instance. Is there any way that you could conceivably do that type of experiment or or run a assimilation? There's very little data but we have all of human history putting data on one earth gravity. We have information on the space station for people spending up to about four hundred days in microgravity approximately zero G. But we don't do anything about how the human body behaves in long periods of time in moshing gravity which is thirty eight percent of what we have on the earth. I'm just trying to imagine myself a Mas. At the moment I don't know what my mindset would be. I think that I would really miss the simple things like going for a walk and just being able to pick up the phone and speak to my parents. It's such such a long way away. Such a big commitment and I really admire your selflessness when you said the it would be selfish not to go in it. Yeah and that that's an area where when astronauts go to the space station. They often talk about things. About how they they just suddenly realize how much they miss the sound of the Ocean. For instance and of says something in short supply on. Mars these days by think one way to look about it is the Shaw. There are lots of experiences the on Mars. You would not be able to have but equally you would get to experience things that no human being has ever experienced before on Mars. Imagine looking out over the rim of a crater. The sunset sunsets. A Blue Want Mars. You'll be the only human to witness a blue sunset on the cosmic shoreline of an alien world. When you play a lot of that's pretty ridiculous is not yet. So what was the reason they're blue? It's the pressure of the atmosphere. Mazda gained just being about one percent what we have on the so the way that light refraction scattered around the different So if you were to thicken MAS atmosphere to about the same s s then that would then change and you would then read some sense for an old normal read. Sox See I'd say they'll be some experiences that you have a mas that you just cannot have on earth so I think in the days of Martian settlement when we're not fighting for survival or conducting scientific research I it'd be a lot of fascinating poetry that we written on Mars. For example we seen a lot of astronauts who have become minor celebrities recently from communicated to the public what it's like in space a good example that comes to mind is is Chris Hadfield recently of ceasing. Space Solitaire on the space station and here in the UK. Tim Peak. Of course. Yeah imagine having someone on Mars able to record videos and send them back to school children here on the Earth. Shame what it's like to live on the planet and imagine just going out at night and looking up at the sky and seeing a red star known that there are people living up there It's it's these things that really drive and motivate me. Because I want to. I want to live in that world. If there's anything that I can do to help make that world happen and bring it a little bit closer. Even if I ultimately wouldn't get go one day. This is the thing that motivates this is why I'm so passionate about human spaceflight and Tamaz yeah that's so rational. So we've talked about SPACEX blue origin. Muslin I think Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic. Do you see them in this picture. They Planning Mazda Toll Virgin Galactic a very much focused on commercial space tourism just into Civil toll flights so they've got an interesting space plane that they've been developing for quite a number of years. I mean I remember when I was in school virgin galactic saying they're going to be flying or by two thousand seven so clearly it hasn't happened yet but they seem to be pretty close. They've already had a few testifies just in the last year where they've actually sent pilots up above eighty kilometers not quite above the official definition of space. Which is one hundred kilometers? But pretty much the edge of Space Richard Branson set for many years that he will go on the first flight with his family to prove how safe it is and perhaps that's why they keep doing back but perhaps within the next year we could be talking about Virgin Galactic sending people into space blue origin. Also doing this. This'll be a quite expensive service at the beginning. We're talking about. You're paying about two hundred thousand dollars just to get about half an hour in space at best. But that's how everything stars with new technology it all the same with flight. At the beginning only rich people can afford it and they get a terrible service but then the money that comes from that refines the technology and makes it more affordable for everyone and creates a much better service. Imagine getting on a rookie of Eighty quits for on Ryan. Or something like that. Spacex have actually talked recently within the last year to eighteen months or so about how they could use the rocket. They're developing for Mars to do point to point transportation on the earth so that you could get between any two places on earth in less than an hour using this rocket there would just go straight up just skim the atmosphere and then come back down so I think that will come much sooner than we actually expect by like you were saying earlier would inspire people people will be able to actually go up there. Take photos see the earth as a globe in particular there's an something called the overview effect which whenever someone has actually gone into space and look down seen the F. It does something to them. Most astronauts come back and some of this super passionate about the environment and about world peace. And because you don't see board as you looked from space for instance. Does he not just the realization that this fragile Oh blue mobile that looking down on his surrounded by blackness did is the only place that we know of the definitely support some kind of life and that is about something a little bit bigger? Yeah and so. Only about five hundred people have gone to space at all. I mean four billion people took flies last year. Imagine if you could get millions of people going into space even for short periods of time I personally would like to see all world leaders go into space just so they could actually see that this is all there is at the moment. Maybe we'll get to Mars in the near future but for now this is the home of the human race. Always be when most people are living and you have to protect that. So it's it's hard to estimate six things and how to quantify them. But I think that deep sociological impact of space becoming accessible. That's not quite appreciate as much but I think we'll make a big difference. Space fight does become affordable so again the world leaders. Then how do you see the government's role in an spaceflight in the near future? You mentioned NASA. It's great the Nassar of go the agency to be able to go and plan these missions. Do you envisage that. They will continue with that. So that's is very much going through a transition at the moment because large parts of NASA have been focused on the very traditional. Okay we have a big government plan with a lot of money. We're going to throw all this and we're going to solve the problem. Now that private companies are also coming on board and they can do things cheaper they can innovate. They can do things faster because they willing to take more risk. The ideal middle ground is to have public private partnerships. Nassar have tried this already at the International Space Station. They retired the space shuttle in two thousand nine which cost about a billion dollars for every launch so they decided to try something new where they would pay to. Private companies SPACEX at the time and Orbital Eighty k. a NASA just said. Okay here's two billion dollars. Here's two billion dollars bill. Something that can get to the space station and then do twelve flights supply space station and it worked that two billion dollars that was given to spacex develops the Falcon nine rocket. Developed the dragon capsule and the folk nine is now being used for satellite launches and for many other areas. Launching Science missions is one of the best and most effective investments that NASA could have made so moving forward necessarily trying to replicate that success but for the moon. They say we want to lead a lander. It must be this big slam this much on the surface of Mars. We don't care how you do it but these are our requirements. How much will it cost you to do it? And then get bids from different companies. Select one they go away and do it. This approach of Nassar becoming a customer as opposed to this big bureaucracy that has large amounts of engineering expertise. That's where things are really changing. So I think NASA can set the vision they can set the scientific goals and the bigger picture but contracting out the actual day to day rocketry to efficient private companies that I think is the way that the governments need to adapt moving forward in this. It'll probably get them quicker. Two miles that can imagine NASA setting up a colony separate to spacex colonial separate to mas ones call. Nafta end up being able to the if that happened. I wonder how much cooperation that would be between the colonies because I would really want the other camps to be able to help me out if there were any problems with my mission. I'd be raised. That wasn't cooperation because Mars is a hostile environment. Things will go wrong with figuring out how to live there and if we are in the situation where we have multiple different sediments outpost colonies on the surface of Mars. Salacious geographically are close enough. I would expect them to be able to help each other out. I should clarify that or they mazdas smaller than the earth. It's a big place. The total land area of Mars is the same as the total land area on the earth. Just take away the oceans so if you're on opposite sides of the planet and something goes wrong. The might not be anything in the early days. The other Carney can do. To help you once corneas have their own infrastructure and their own capability to launch rockets from the surface of Mars. Back to the Earth at that point I could imagine emergency emergency a rocket being to take off from Ramaz fly around the planet and landed another colony to deliver them supplies in the exact same way. That spacex talking about flying from point to point on the earth so this will be possible. But it's it's just so spectate at the mall because we still don't know how we're going to get one rocket on the surface of Mars with people let alone multiple different colonies. They picked on an area or multiple areas that would be ideal for the settlements. They already got this plan. Spacex did hold a workshop late last year in August last year where they brought together specialists for a mar settlement workshop. But they never actually publicized what they actually discussed. They're starting to think about that. There are other complete though that have thought about where you would put a settlement in Mars. Once case for instance they talk about a compromise. The closer to the equator that you are the more directly ahead sunlight. Solar panels are much more effective on the equator of Mars. But the closer you want to. The polar ice caps the more water ice there has been at the surface and that's critical for living on Mars. You can drink more water. You can make your air from the water so they establish a compromise of about forty five degrees north latitude about halfway between the equator and the northern polar ice cap. The geology is just completely different in the northern hemisphere versus the south. Some people think that could just be well. The northern hemisphere is light the ocean beds of this ocean that used to be on Mars or the people think that could have been two colliding planets early on in the history of Mars. And that's why. The South is such as Rogaine cratered while the north pretty flat but in short the northern hemisphere about forty five degrees north. It'd be a great place to land and some of the problems. Then how would you deal with the heat? Because it's such a wide range doesn't it? You can go down to nine hundred twenty something like that and they could go into the plus as well on the equates. Yes so on on a nice summer day. We've seen temperatures highs plus thirty on the equator of Mars but an equally you can get temperatures around. I always like minus two hundred or so in the polar ice caps you can get some insulation for free by building your settlement harshly underground some talking about having a layer of at least a meter also of Martian soil which doesn't just provide thermal insulation. But it actually blocks out some of the radiation that Mars experiences as well so you kill two birds with one stone. Can you just explain what the problem is with the radiation? Aw Unlikely Earth which has a global magnetic field protecting it from these streams of charged particles that come in from the Sun. Mars appears to have one saddest field. But it doesn't today. We believe magnetic fields have produced by molten outer core that flows about all of these magma flows and current inside of that effect return the earth into a giant bar magnet. That's actually why we have the Aurora. Is these charged particles from the sun getting Magnetic fields and the spiralling into the polls. Mas doesn't have that and so it surfaces bombarded by charged particles from the sun. And that's what we mean by the radiation on the surface and that's very bad for living organisms because radiation loves to go straight into A it just knocks off random electrons and atoms that can cause DNA to fail when it's making a copy and hence causing mutation which commonly is something like cancer so we copy ourselves so often don't we think the stats like there's an any cell in your body. That was there ten years ago because we do that so often would living on Mars ever be sustainable yet. The radiation is problem. Today we do have ideas on how to mitigate it as I say. Living partially underground is a great way to do it. If you had a settlement that has a thin layer of water almost like double glazing water inside. Water is grated absorbing radiation. If you've got a lot of energy you could have a magnetic field generator in your base that would also deflect some of the particles so there are lots of logical solutions there but in the longer term it does call some implications for life on Mars because want to go out on the surface and you want to explore. You will be exposed to much higher levels of radiation not not talking about deadly levels. What about is you would want to not go out for more than about eight hours a week if you did that. And you stick to those limits then over your entire life your risk of getting cancer less than if you are a smoker for instance so is perfectly adaptable. And you could tell you. Operate Rovers from inside. Your base for instance. You just have a quota for how long you should go outside for. I think if you to build cities the majority of people don't actually spend that much time outside anyway. Eight hours personnel. I spend a lot more than I do but I I can see that. That's actually feasible. And it's not like a hard like you go suddenly die if you're if you're doing a scientific expedition and you want to go out to some interesting landmark for a week. You could do that if only doing it like once a year. Also really fascinating so other than the radiation then while the other major problems that we might encounter so one of the major problems that has received a lot of attention particularly since the moshing came out is global dust storms and that something really unique. That Mars faces. There's a special. Dust Storm season that hits most Martian summers. That's the Martian. Year is about to earth years so once every two years of the chance of getting these storms like clockwork. It's not guaranteed that you'll get a storm that coats. The entire world normally is get local regional storms and then a big global might his every ten fifteen years or so. Fortunately does not spider steady pictured in the Martian. If you had winds blowing at you at the speed of a hurricane on the earth you could walk outside absolutely find on Mars and again. It's the lower pressure on Mars. It means the force of the air is about one hundred times less the problem from the dust. Storms though is that they block out the sun. If you've ever seen a photograph of Mars when a dust storm takes place you can barely see the surface and historically this. Actually he was caused an interesting issue in the in the nineteen seventies when some of the first missions. We're going to Mars the Russians finding to Mars Mars to in mass three missions. They got there and a global storm. Had hit mas but they had programmed the missions just to go straight to Mars land immediately and so they tried to Latin during a global dust storm. One of the missions impacted the surface. The other one actually managed to land until one photograph and then just dined while the Americans with their Viking missions got there at the same time for orbital waiting for the storm to answer before landing so yeah dust storms do cause issues the technology that people probably use to generate power in the early days. We'll be solar panels yourself has already less effective because you're fifty percent further away from the sun so set up house. Earning about forty percent as effective storm. Hits Bye by to your logistic supply. So you have to have officiant battery technology. Maybe this is. Maybe it's base. It's Tesla for that department. You have to ration your supplies. So it takes a lot of electricity to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen is person called electrophoresis us up water and yet hate to an oath to come off. And that's the main way we would make oxygen to breathe on Mars. But you don't really want to be using a power during that during a dust storm which could last about sixty days in the worst case scenario so you would have to ration your supply. You'd have to stop taking showers for instance says recycled water. That would be the biggest issue so any Marshall Senate will have to always have vast reservoirs of contingency supplies because I imagine you at a city on Mars and storm hits. You've got to have everything you need for city to function for sixty days without any electricity generation. For instance. No new air coming in and no new water coming in I think. One of the biggest spinoffs of the March settlements in the early days. We'll be recycling technology which we very helpful back here on the F. One of the biggest arguments about not going to Mars is. Why are we going from us when we need to really look after the one planet that we currently live on the such a great argument that we were able to go to? Mars? Developed this recycling technology. Because it's going to be absolutely essential and they'll be a military incentive for that. I think that the biggest export from MAS will be ideas. We're not going to be mining things on the surface of Mars and shipping the back to the ethics far too expensive to that. I mean. We're an innovative species. Whenever challenges we love to try and solve them and if we don't have some frontier to push against we stagnate by trying to solve the challenges just to be able to live on Mars the technological spinoffs will be immense and I should clarify that the amount of money that you would have to spend to build. A settlement is absolutely tiny compared to what we spend in the military or in banking or finance areas of the earth and it would actually be a lot smaller than like many aid budgets. So is a small amount of money. It will always be less than about one percent of earth producers but the spinoffs from that will create solutions for problems. Right here on earth that we wouldn't be able to attain otherwise is great value from going to Mars. You go to Mars to solve problems on earth which is an interesting point as the been anything. That's come out of the to Mars that we've been able to utilize here on earth so solar power generation was really pioneered by the early days of space exploration of so we see this beautiful solar panels on the International Space Station and in fact solar-powered and orgies improve the point where even the Juno mission which is around Jupiter. The moment is using solar panels on university about four percent of the light from the Sun by that point. That's one immediate area. That's very obvious off the a lot of spin. Offs have come from research on the space station which doing a lot of medical research for instance also material science. It can be a little bit difficult to to track some of the direct innovations but there are some things like him so for the Apollo Moon. Landing you needed miniaturized computers said for the command module so integrated circuit technology can actually be traced many ways to the Apollo Moon landings. So you can thank your mobile phone on the Moon landings so it can be hard to trace this. But when there have been attemps to quantify downhill the total lie. Economic Impact of the Apollo Eleven Moon landings the figures that I've heard over like fifty years after the Moon landings is about ten to one return on investment so the numbers can be scary at the beginning but the technological spin offs the jobs created and all those people that go into science and engineering because of it. It's one of the best investments you can actually make in the future having a space program and I suppose you can't really guess what the new innovations are going to be from. Otherwise would that's what's exciting about it. The best innovations of those. You don't expect. Yeah that's great. So once we saw colonies boy is the research that will be vital to be carried out then and there. I mean we shall it. We're going to be looking for signs of life right at the beginning. A large part of the research on Mars will be focused just on things are critical to survival so material. Science will actually one of those areas. Because if you want to be sustainable on Mars and not be reliant. On resupply shipments from Earth. Every two years you need to figure out how to use local resources to manufacture replacement parts for instance researching what is the elemental composition of the surface material. Mars we call it Regula and can you. For example sought that by grain-size affect remote it by blasting it with microwaves and make Mas Bricks for instance. Can you do three? D. Printing using materials already on Mars material scientists chemists and geologists. That'd be a lot of the very initial research carrying on their you on the aspect of life which is obviously what. I'm most excited by so there will be people doing field expeditions to collect samples from particularly promising areas for example when there have been some studies which have suggested that there are areas of Mars where periodically there can be just flows of something. That's very similar water over the surface. I've seen those photos. Yes Oh it's not quite pure water. Which as I mentioned not stable on Mars is kind of briny salty fluid. The soap forms are of antifreeze which enables the was to exist for very short periods of time but every we found water on earth we found life so imagine outfitting an expedition to go with their collecting some samples of this fluid looking for anything alive in there. And you the life then you got sequences genetic code assuming it is debased which I think is probably likely and I say that because we see rocks from us on earth all the time in Antarctica. Simile you might imagine that there have been rocks from Earth which have landed on the surface of Mars and we know there are micro organisms that can survive in the vacuum of space and it only takes a couple strained microbes to make it across the vast space to then go and take over another plant so given the amount of contamination events exchanging material between these planets with last billions of years. I would be very surprised if life on Mars was not already related to life on the earth. You said there's a lot in Antarctica was the process that they actually get sued. The ATHOL THE EARTHWORKS GET TO MOUSE ASTEROID IMPACTS BAM. We see huge craters on Mars. We also see big craters on the earth. Most the ones that are much a much younger because of weathering and all that and whenever there's an asteroid impact it produces so much energy that rocks can escape the mazas gravity yes. It's mainly impacting. It's actually caused that transfer. So could it be feasible that that live actually started on Mas and three one of those impact? Events brought some microbes to Earth Mohamed Salah Environment. And we have what we have around us today absolutely. I think this would be one of the Big Lake Sociological Impacts. That could just change the way we see ourselves. Because when malls was a habitable planet about four billion years ago the Earth was actually not really that hospital at the time. The Earth took a little bit longer to get going and so Mars could have had a head start if life did start a mouse. I and was transported to the earth. We could actually establish that by sequencing the genetic code of Martian Life and whenever we do this on the earth it's almost like a unique fingerprint by looking at common sections of DNA. You can work out where it falls on the tree of life where it's common ancestors are and if we can establish life on. Mars is related to life on the Earth. But it's four billion years old older than any life that we have here on the earth. That would be very good evidence that we're all Martians. Wouldn't that be fascinating. Collusion people have dreamt about Martians. And we are the Marsha that's incredible speaking about mas just brings up so many more questions than than we cancer the moment that's one of the areas while of the so much we haven't even gotten there yet with people and you're already there's there's almost an infinite playing that we can see of areas that we to investigate and this is why I. If I were to go to Mars I would not be bored. There's a lot now. Multiple Lifetime's things. Discover right one of the aspects about going to Mars. That really gets my imagination. Going is the idea of Tara foaming now could you explain? The concept of terra. Forming probably have never heard the word before I mean literally tear forming it terror the Latin. It's basically making an earth. We don't starting from scratch. We're building a planet. So tear forming is a staple of Science. Fiction is being there that true for decades. It's the idea that if you take upon it which is currently not hospitable and you try and deliberately change the conditions on this planet to make it like the F. and the reason that malls is particular focus of this is because we know that at one point it appeared to be a habitable pilot. So we know it's possible. Nature has already achieved it and also and this is an issue sharing that we already anti-terror forming the earth. We are modifying the atmosphere of the s by pumping more co two in the atmosphere and changing the temperature. We are accidentally changing the climate on the imagine what we do if we put our mind towards it if we deliberately tried to raise the temperature of Mas. That's the essential idea of tariff wing. You want to raise the temperature to the point where liquid water can exist a surface or above freezing. You also want to raise the atmospheric pressure on Mars to the point where water can exist as liquid instead of justice. I steam transition talked about at that point you could walk out the surface of Mars without a spacesuit but you wouldn't be able to breathe the use of a gas mask on your skin could be exposed and it would be mostly fine. You get Yep. I did do it for too long. Because the radiation and actually having a thick rapper say would actually count some of the radiation as well so that would actually help law the final phase of tear forming would-be to change the atmospheric composition of mass from being mainly co two into something closer to what the atmosphere has so enough oxygen to be able to breathe and then also in a gases like nitrogen gas. So it'll be a very long process of changing mas to become a habit. Apply it where you could walk out on the surface just like anywhere on the earth so portion of terror foaming MAS would be. I presume to grow plants and grow trees. Maybe introduced some animals. And I'm looking at the TV. Show that you've got now taking so put it on twitter or something. I should explain. It starts off as Mars as we know it today and through. A series of photos turns into something that resembles but in a slightly diff from way but there are lakes or seas. So we've got the idea then. Few decades of one hundred years that we will turn into very something very similar earth. Tear for me would be a very long project if you were to estimate since I'm an optimist I'll start with the optimistic projections good so if you were to really commit to tear forming if it became like the focus of the world or maybe you already had one hundred cities on mosques. They were really committed towards it. You could raise the temperature of Mas to the point where Mars experiences the first rains in billions of years and then starts filling in these lakes and eventually ocean within about seventy years because you going from an average of minus fifty two hundred zero. I mean that's that's a big push on. We've warmed at the by. What like a degree and a half or so since the industrial revolution. We're talking about fifty degrees. It can be done and you'll really helped by a runaway greenhouse on MAS. In the if you look at the ice caps of Mars today what you actually see is not water ice. The top layer of the ice cap is actually frozen carbon dioxide Mars and as a deeper layer of water is so if you he took the poles of Mars just by a few degrees. You could do that. For example by having mirrors space focusing light on them or there are molecules. We know that basically just laugh at co two. A greenhouse gas there are molecules that are hundreds of thousands of times more potent greenhouse gas that we know how to make but we're banned from making on the pump those into the atmosphere or direct light on the ice caps of Mars. And then you immediately start. Thickening the atmosphere as this co two goes from solid into a gas and that carbon dioxide traps in more heat and melts more carbon dioxide. And wouldn't you start the process? You get maybe ten twenty two warring for free pretty much so yes seventy years to get the point where you could imagine having liquid water stable on the surface of Mars. There's a lot of uncertainty in how long it will take to modify the atmosphere. You can breathe. It and part of the problem comes to the fact that we're trying to solve a twenty third century problem with twenty-first-century ideas. Yeah I suppose the technology that would develop between now and then it'd be in credit on Kenny and I don't play. This will be a question for the Martians to actually address because it will be their big concern because it affects the entire future of that civilization. Oh that's something I really wanted to know. Actually I don't know what stage people have planned. Reproducing a mas but has that been a lot of thought into it. I mean you can't do any research on what affects the low. Gravity would have on on the whole process. Really there has been some speculative thought an option area address in science fiction lot. The has been some research on the International Space Station with with animals and it seems that animals features don't develop properly in zero g because there's no clear direction for them to grow if fetuses don't about credit and zero g but they do one g where. West thrush ord isn't a continuum Modena's need like ten percent for it to be fine we don't know. Mazi said was point. Three point three eight yet. See we don't know you would probably have to test that with animals. I so so. Let's say for the sake of argument that it is possible to to conceive and for feeds to develop properly someone growing up on Mars. They receive less light than we get on the earth and so that will obviously influence like skin pigmentation to a certain extent from Vitamin D. The lower gravity might them taller for instance their their bones or naturally be a little bit thinner. You might imagine so. You'll see some quite stark differences even with the first generation just from the different physical environment. This wouldn't be an actual evolutionary change. But the higher radiation on Mars would mean people would evolve faster on Mars because radiation causes mutations many mutations of bad but mutations is also how evolution takes place it is all the mutations that go on how Mugniyah in a positive direction this fraction and it would depend a little on how many people are on. Mars is a place that would probably be be highly Darwinian in the early days because if someone has like a mutation that caused the big problem when they're born it would be very difficult for them to survive and so this is probably one of the drivers the higher radiation and the fact that just lives are at risk more often on. Mars would naturally to Lucien being slightly faster. I think the more interesting aspect though is that if a baby is born on Mars and it's naturally got much thinner bones for the same reason the erroneous. I said that it will be difficult for someone who came from Earth to return from mass of the Earth. If they were on their more than about ten years someone born on Mars may never be able to come to the and live so although we could be the same species that could be a very fascinating socio economic situation where people born on earth can live on two planets people. Born Mars can only live on. One had be very fascinating to think of like the societal implications for that. If your bottom mas you can't go to any of the universe's earth for instance matching being born amas. New Parents had all the opportunities from being on earth. And then choose to come to Mars and then you're stuck. They're teenagers can be ready. But I didn't say tough. You spend your life on this red rock and don't worry five generations down the line. You might see some rain so yeah it's going to be a very interesting situation to see that it's very rapidly. We'll get strong identities with people born on Mars and they will be the same species at least biologically sociologically thou be things and they'll be Martians. If you were to guess from the first human landing on Mars to the first human being bone on us how many years would that be? If a large number people landau mouths hundred also within the first few years like space x front envisioning say probably five to ten years a really big. Yeah I think I think it'd be pretty quick. No being born on the space station astronauts responsible people but I mean if you have a place that is actually pleasant to live and so you wouldn't want to have your years. Building fuel refineries fails but the second you place with space pleasant to live. You've got large indoor spaces with maybe like trees and things in that. Perhaps that's the point because I mean any responsible parent would think is the right place to to raise a child and I think if once you can send large numbers of people enlargements Akagi. Tomorrow's that will come sooner rather than later. I was thinking that that is going to be in my lifetime. But you're used to think that yeah definitely. I think this is the thing that will really surprise. Most people in that. Because we've been told about going to Mars since the seventies and it hasn't happened and many people have turned off but things are going to happen very fast the second that we are able to actually get there and space as a building prototypes of this star sheet rock rocket right now and they've already stopped doing engine firings. This is moving really fast. The second we get there it will be like when the Internet came out and it just took over everything they call. Imagine a time before it within ten fifteen years or so of course people mouth. It'll be yeah. Well I'm trying to wonder what the first jobs might be. We said earlier we were talking about the health implications. I imagine a doctor or allowed team of doctors would be essential at the start. Well have you done a lot of thinking about this? I imagine you have. Yeah I mean you're absolutely right with the doctors because if you don't want to bring dot if one doctor gets ill then you've got a problem. Most of the early jobs will be doctors and engineers those of the critical roles Those are probably the two mainstreams that people will train in butts amongst the crews With lots of other expertise they'll sub disciplines so we talked about things like exobiology. If you want to look for life on Mars. You need to understand how to do that. You would need to. People specialize in technologies like Three D. Printing and Powell production for instance so physicists chemists scientists in general. Doing research amass. I don't think we'll need any politicians until we have maybe about a couple of hundred people on Mars in the days. It will probably everything. It'd be unanimous decision making But at some point everyone doesn't have the time to make every single decision. Yeah that's really I actually think about. What's the threshold in which you have to have a leader if you look at tribes? They'll have leaders in a my tribal is twenty is the tyranny of the communication delay between ethnic she the issue. People Mars. Can't just call up. Houston MICHIGAN-TROY ASK for help. Because if you leak and you wait forty minutes to get a reply. Then you're as gone so they have to be incredibly autonomous from day one so you had. The question of the threshold for leaders is interesting. Because if you have a situation where if something goes wrong you need someone who can immediately say what you have to do to fix it. That suggests for very small number of people a military command structure with a clear command. Who's in charge of the decisions and making life and death? Decisions could be very beneficial for a small outpost. Just because you can't just get everyone's let talk everything. If something is going wrong needs to be fixed accent it gets in Boise territory when you already have redundancy when you've got maybe fifty to one hundred people on Mars then you probably don't need a military command structure Then you would probably maybe have a council of the experts in particular areas decisions. So people would meet they talk about like the food supply in the colony and then the botanists would then propose policies and things about that. There's also the the economic situation I mean what threshold do you need to have money on Mars or do you need money Mars because for a small settlement a you have a clear expertise? Someone else's clear expertise. You provide what you can do to the colony and turned the corner provides everything else that you need. There's no need to have a monetary system for that. If there's any one doctor in the corner it'd be annoyed with Asia just kept charging every time that you're going to visit them for instance so there are so many inching questions that come out from this because Mazda the to try new ideas as well with all the hindsight of what has worked over the history on earth. I was really interesting to those points. The so yes money and the other one's food because food I how would plant fair and did you say point? Three eight gravity. Are they going to be able to toll you? You're GONNA have pumpkins the size of Carl's house back. The astronauts on the space station have actually already been growing plants up there. They even grew a salad themselves. Actually like eight it to actually prove the idea that you can grow things in space. So plants grow well even in the microgravity environment on the space station. 'cause plans turn out to actually be so sensitive to gravity the even on the space station where it's not exactly zero g because the earth isn't complete feral like a mountain range passes under the tiny tiny fraction and the route start growing towards it. The research scenes with just plants to be fine in the gravity environment on Mars. You wouldn't be growing them out on the surface no soil on Mars. You would have special whim hydroponic. Jowell's which is kind of can nutrient solution that the plan to be growing in now solution that we're looking into a lot more on earth as well. Isn't it so that we have to use as many fields and we can stop him? Farming in high rise blocks the vertical farming picky a big thing in Singapore. For instance in my view are limited. Land areas. Have a skyscraper hydroponics. You can grow food for everyone. You only need electricity to Because then you can eliminate the plants all throughout the day and night and you get much. Higher Yields so food on Mars early on. Most people be almost entirely vegetarian. Growing all of these plans. Things like carrots radish maybe potatoes. I say almost entirely because if you want to improve your biological efficiency their parts of plants that we can't ingest ourselves but they're insects that can just anything so the PAS plants we can't just feed them to insects like crickets grasshoppers and then they can provide a source of protein. There are a staple of diets in Southeast Asia in particular and they're perfectly healthy. I specked plants insects common early on as and this is actually the interesting implication for the environmental movement on the Earth. Imagine that there's this big science communication Amasi slight the UBER. Chris Hadfield Brian Cox also at the day and he's talking about like eating insects on Mars that could provide the catalyst to detoxify the image of insects a source of meat particularly in western countries an insect of so much more energy efficient than growing like chickens and cows. It made them be cool to eat the sex because it's Martian food for instance so that could actually help us solve the big pressing concern about. We can't grow enough meat for the entire world. Particularly with more countries like China India going through the demographic transition at the moment and maybe one way to sustainably do that is by promoting insects and Moss. Could help a lot with that. Yeah it's an interesting little something that might come out of Mars that you would just never expect. Every single thing that we speak about with regards to Mars that is undoubtedly going to be so many innovations unimaginable different scenarios. That come out of it so the aspect was economy. So do you envisage the that would be Martian currency or? Do you think that they might start? Trading in one of these new crypto currencies. Mas would probably have to have its own currency regulated on Mars because economy trade it on earth stock markets with this half an hour. Delay going on. I mean depending on whether you could be a shorter six minutes round trip delay because Oh wise late someone. Mars could have made different investment decision. When someone on the earth is still deciding. What's going on? I just mess up the stock market in very interesting ways. I'm not an expert on economics. I I don't know how this could actually function or indeed whether the Martians is want something like that. All that we know is the on earth. Every culture is independently developed some form of either barter system. And the second that you have one person having something that someone else wants. Money tends to be a way to actually communicate that so. I'd be very surprised if doesn't something along those lines and perhaps it could be cryptocurrency. Based I've even seen some cryptocurrencies have already been set up like claiming that they're going to be the cryptocurrency for MAS. I mean who knows? It's early days to stop thinking about such things. But once you're above a certain number of people. Mas Yeah you've got to think how you trade services so if the Governor Sarah foaming one of the things we're GONNA have to do is plan to love trees. Maybe grasses thing the will be able to take with us but you said there's no soil thinking that that has been some repulse recently about the UV effect on the surface regular. So the you vs had a an effect on that creates new compounds which makes it toxic so. Could you just explain about that? Y'All so with regards to the tariff allowing price. I should say the big unknown in how long it would take in. Total would be the transformation of the atmosphere and the growing these plants while getting early oceans could be seventy years best case scenario with plants to be two hundred years to transform the atmosphere breathable and that would be even if you had genetically engineered super plans going about which you might not want a more moderate testimony about ten thousand years just from my normal plants curbing range the yeah so because you'd want to very basic layer of algae that can just survive on the surface to start with that would then die when it dies deposit some of the nutrients it took during. Its life that provides like a micro something a little bit like soil that would then get distribution on Mars by the weather systems and the rain and things going on and then you would gradually stopped playing. Mary's light Shin might go on top of it. And you're very gradually building up through LIKE MOSS. And then some micro grass over many generations just a thick layer of soil. Until eventually you'd want to step up to something like a Tundra like environment with Arctic trees and Pines for instance. You Imagine one day you'll be a very long process involved you mentioned about the the. Uv interactions with the regular. So there have been a number of studies that have concluded that there's some interesting compounds that appear to be present to Moscow per chlorate which when mixed with water can actually form some quite potent toxins which are not particularly present particularly pleasant for life. Catchy react with organic molecules and just break them down. It's it's like I dunno late. Imagine the service cozy in like bleach awesome. The is not particularly pleasant there. Are there are some contradicting findings? About how prevent this is whether it's just pockets on Mars or whether it is the entire planet there are also researchers investigating how you could filter that out and purify the top of Mars to then start laying down the soil so that there is an area where people will have to investigate when they actually get on with. Tara for me. It could be that when the rain start it might wash out all this stuff into the ocean and then we got this big ocean of bleach also so that scenario again the Martians. We'll have to address Joe all we can do at the moment his just send moreover resum orbits Tamaz to try and establish map out whether these are actually common so the regular earth do every done any experiments of how we might be able to build with that. He talked by the bricks earlier. We have a reasonably good idea at least in the locations where landowners what the regular is actually made of we do also have samples of the moons regular that was brought back by the Apollo missions. So you can go and buy on the Internet. A regulus simulant. There is an artificial regular that has been made to replicate what the moon is like what. Mars is like the happy. Some companies that have ordered this done some experiments but again. It's a very early stage. I'm not aware of a compares actually started building Mas Bricks for instance at the simulants. But I suppose that must be spacex mission plan to have been able to build structures ounce of this before humans show up spacex haven't taught that much about the actual specifics of base building on Mars. That mainly focused on creating the transportation system to actually get that cheaply with a large amount of material that presumably hoping that the second that they open the railroad. If you will then other companies will then jump on board then start developing things like that. I mean and that's one of the criticisms that Elon. Musk gets quite often. All you want to send people to Mars but you haven't got any plans to how people live there and he says well that's not what I'm working to get people their first time beyond one promised offer him at least working on quite love. Things time I mean getting people to Mars is the biggest problem when you can get into ours and get them. They're alive than everything else is quite trivial in comparison still hard but it's much easier than actually getting people to malls or any of the private companies working on any technology. That might be able to help with the tear foaming off. There are some companies that have been investigating engineering on earth. Which is the fancy name. Basically for Tara forming the earth it has been proposed if climate change gets completely out of control on the earth and we realized far too late we could be able to use technology to try and knock the back which would be a very risky strategy because the is a very complicated finding balance system and you might say okay. There's too much. Co Two in the atmosphere where he's going to spray some chemicals and the atoms clouds whiter and reflect more light but if you that too much or as a new light hits the surface and is actually slightly but those technologies that organizations mainly academic research opposed to private companies are investigating on the earth and they would have implications for tariff wing using the process would be able to change the actual chemical buildup of our atmosphere. Is things like building things. Called artificial tree is which is big factories that just like suck in co two and other store underground actually break the bonds and Co two and change into some of the molecule. I just figured why don't we just plant some trees and seems like except much. It's is about the time scale if light the temperature is completes part of Control. We've got a huge droughts. He's do something fast and you can't wait two hundred years of fix the planet then mcbean the situation where the only option is Geo engineering. We can hope we don't get that situation but that does need to be more research so that we have the backup plan if we absolutely need it. Yeah unlike you saying on Mars. We wouldn't actually have the ability to grow trees especially the stars anyway making these super greenhouse gases than thicken the carbon dioxide atmosphere just from the already on Mars. It's just frozen in fact funny thing that most you don't seem to know is that during the Martian summer the Martian atmosphere actually becomes twice as thick just slightly hotter and part of the ICECAPS. That's made a co two goes back into the atmosphere that we would just want to complete that process and make all of the O two at the ice caps go into the opposite permanently. Is there anything that worries you about going to Mars anything? You're skeptical about Do you just see positives in it? All worried about the individual may be loss of life from some of the first missions. That might happen so I think. My warriors tend to focus around human nature. I mean in the shore where we inspiring people will building this like him. Have this great project. Were actually doing but what happens in the very long term future. One hundred two hundred years down the line. I mentioned about this this socio political situation of I be worried if we have a two class system with people born on Mars having less opportunities and being seen ass- different from people on the earth and there's a lot further down the line birt's I tend to be optimistic on matters of science engineering and technology and science does make life better for everyone but at the end of the day where we're all still human science can make new things possible but let me good things and bad things. It's up to humans and often politicians decide what they're actually used for. I mean in general. I most positives for going to Mars but at some point Mars. Just be part of the human sphere. It'll be just like any other country that we have on earth. Maybe it might even have multiple countries. I what kind of political structure. The MARTIANS will have in mind. Yeah so they could be. Country SPACEX the country blue origin. Once those cities grow how do you them. Interacting at the moment the only legal framework we have dictating activities in spaces called the outer space treaty which was basically set up in a Russian the sixties. Stop per the Russians or the Americans from claiming the moon so it states that no government can own land beyond the earth because it's for the common heritage of humanity but it wasn't drafted with companies in minds. There's murky legal waters about even ship. Can you own land the United States through a new salvo in light a few years ago when they said that if a US company minds an asteroid they then own the material that they have mind? And that's now an issue but most of the countries have agreed that so. It's not entirely clear what happened. So you'd be a weird situation. The My if you build a house on Mars and it happened to be on top of some light. Rich mineral vein. Someone could come over and move your house and start digging because you didn't own the land but you only own the House that you've written so their entire international treaties that will have to be redrafted. Once is no longer a hypothetical and we actually seriously have people Mars and have to worry about these questions. I'm particularly if you've got a tariff all but Mars I mean just the land area alone on Tara formed. Mars has been estimated at around four Quadrille Ian Dollars just from the land value. Figure on that I didn't know it was. It was like five years ago. I saw that figure I should check. There's one of these so in one of these many papers. It was actually looking at the tariff on price. They basically asked some economists that one of these international organizations like the to actually just do a very simple calculation. What is the average land value on the earth of undeveloped land and then just extract to the total land surface area you would have on a tear formed? Mars minus the areas covered by the ocean. I mean if there are going to be huge civilizations on the at some point is going to have quite value. Isn't it right? So what happens if we look into the future? A little bit more using techniques that y'all looking at the moment in your PhD. We have been able to discover the planets beyond our solar system. Now DIV envisage as being able to settle on those planets as well as a long term goal for humanity. Do you think see. I tend to always think in the long term. I think. Often this is great interplay between the Science and science fiction where many people who become scientists are inspired by science fiction growing up then scientists make discoveries the science fiction writers. Then right new science fiction spies the next generation. It's a great feedback going on so I was inspired when I was growing up by stories about big generation ships being sent to other star systems when multiple generations would live and work on the ships because the stars are just so far away. I mean even the nearest star Proxima Centauri's like fifty thousand times further in the MAZDAS and it takes six months also to get to Mars so the way I envision it is the focus of my research on trying to understand what the atmospheres of planets around other stars. Exit pilots are actually made of and hence what these distant worlds may actually be like. We're at the point where we now know that. Earth sized planets of very common galaxy. Do we know where the closest one is to us? Yeah the the closest one is actually around the nearest star tours. Us We hit the Jackpot is roughly earth. Mass planet called Proxima Centauri be orbiting around the nearest star. About four point. Two light years away. We've seen some other household planets about twelve light years away. Some more about forty and we we've mission at the moment tests which is doing an all sky survey of the nearest and brightest stars appliances well based on extrapolations from the roughly four thousand of these plants. We've found so far. We believe there are about forty billion earth sized planets in our galaxy an very decent fraction that would be in the habitable zone of that star so potentially have appliance or common and maybe even more common than even the most optimistic science fiction actually predicted. We we've already got one critical piece of the puzzle. Earth-like planets are common. Earth likes being a size. We don't yet know where they're actually breathable. So what I'm focused on. Now is developing the techniques to actually peer into the atmospheres of these worlds tell gases are in the atmosphere and we want to the point where we can look at a plant or another star and be able to tell that. Pyatt has twenty talks agenda that plight has ninety five percent Sio two and be able to make some inferences as to whether somebody's plants are habitable or deed whether they could actually have life aboard. And how close are we to that? The two point light years away. I mean that's such a distance to look down telescope hat. How do we know how much oxygen is actually in that while we we haven't stocks in yet? One of the things about experts. Is that the kind of the naive approach of just pointing task cope at another star and then just zooming in zooming zooming and zooming in. There's the plant that's really difficult to do. It has been done for some planets but these planets out very very wide orbits way further out than Pluto. The are also really young. The plants a glowing the infrared. We can see those directly with current technology which we call direct imaging. But that's hard to do. We can't yet directly. See a true analog so we more clever we have to use different techniques and these different techniques are actually great because they work out to really really long distances we can easily go out to a couple thousand light years the main technique that I use. It's called the transit method where we just. We don't have to see the plant itself. All we have to do is see the Star and a dip in the light from the star when the planet passes in front from looking at that dip. We can tell how large the planted if it's a big dip. We've got a gas giant if it's a smaller dip we've got a smaller potentially rocky planet and the clever thing then comes in from looking at the size of the plant at different colors different wavelengths of light because different gases absorb light at different wavelengths so by seeing how the size of the planet changes for different colors we get a unique fingerprint which we can disentangle to tell which gases are in the atmosphere and how much of each gas there actually is. Have you been able to find some exciting results in your research? Then yes a one of the most recent resorts that type teens so about two years ago I was involved in a study that made the first detection of a molecule called titanium oxide in the atmosphere of an exit and this is an exotic molecule that we don't even have any of the plants center around solar system because it can only really exist in gas giants that many thousands of degrees Celsius so we discovering things that we don't even have in our own system most recently I also looked at the atmosphere of a Neptune mass planet and found this some really weird chemistry going on in its atmosphere about one percent of his atmos- water the rest being hydrogen helium. But the thing that raise the price me is that I was seeing some signatures that I could only explain by some really weird molecules that we call metal hydride and the bizarre thing is that these metal hydrate we see them in stars for instance cool stars but then not really stable at temperatures lower than about one thousand two thousand Celsius also and this planet was a temperature of four hundred also Celsius and this will be followed up by the James Webb Space Telescope. So what's the difference between the telescopes have at the moment and the new telescopes that we're GONNA have over the next few years. One of the really big differences is the size of the scope because the lot of the task appears the more light it collects and that let sirs just build much better signal so we can she do much more is all about how much light. You actually collect. It is also important the range of colors that you can see so for example. The Hubble Space Telescope is great for detecting water in expert atmospheres. But it can only observe a very narrow range of colors in the infrared. There are other molecules things like ammonia and hydrogen cyanide that we would like to be able to see in fact. There are some theories of the origin of life on the earth that have been investigating whether hydrogen cyanide could be one of the critical building blocks for start life so that be an important molecule to look for in space but Hubbell's not very sensitive to it at the moment but future tasks goats will be on a much wider range of colors and that will let us detection you molecules for your funding for this research which aspects enables each to get funding the search for life. All the government's interested in are they interested in potential places for us to go into some point or they just interested in the science. How does that work? So I don't think any financial that the moment of thinking about actually going to Axa pundits in fact you propose. Research looking at things like interstellar technologies. It's actually very difficult to get funding for them. Research so to be private philanthropy. That actually does that. So the big focus is the search for life how life actually began and where we came from these. These are kind of the big ways that Nassar in particular pitches characterizing excellence as part of their research portfolio so in general experts scientists. Doing pretty well actually on the funding from to in astronomy. Because very easy to explain what we do. It's very relatable. We all know what it's like to live on a planet because we do live on we know about these big questions about. Are we alone in the universe and we're just reaching the point where for the first time we'll be able to look for life around other stars so there's a very reasonable chance that we will be the first generation to know that we're not alone in the universe and it doesn't actually cost that much to do the research that we're doing is I mean I'm a theorist like I just need a computer electricity and some pens and paper? I can do my science. So that your prediction. You think that we will be able to find some some life. Will we be definite that? There will be life that I think we will find the first signatures of gases that we're reasonably confident life within the next ten years if we get lucky I mean it could turn out that life is rare in the universe and that there's something special about the earth this what's fascinating. We have a sample size of one for life. So we don't know whether it's come whether it's rare we don't. We don't know anything really if life is common. I think we will have made what war venture tonight with the first attraction within ten years but it would be very controversial at the beginning in fact when the first exoplanets discovered in the nineteen nineties. It wasn't really until two thousand. That people stopped arguing about whether these pints actually existed and it wasn't just like turbulent motion in the atmospheres of stars that was mimicking a planet. I mean that's how science works any extraordinary claim. These good evidence. We've is skeptical people. And ultimately the first tentative detections of life we'll get will probably motivate building even larger and better telescopes to than test that claim and prove without doubt whether it's true or not if you go your way what changes would you make to the current system for us to be able to make those those discoveries. Suna would we put telescope MAS advancements? Can we make to make those discoveries? Large space based telescopes and also large ground based telescopes would be the way to go and we are working on those areas right now. So if some context the James Webb space telescope which will basically Hubble mark to should be going up in twenty twenty one that is about six and a half meters in diameter at the moment some of the largest has on the ground that we have are about ten meters. We're building at the moment. The next generation of ground based telescopes that we call the extremely large telescopes. Because we're not very creative without naming these targets will be thirty to forty meters in diameter. That they are huge. Mountains have been leveled to particularly to build the extremely large telescope in Chile and so those grammars have advanced technology that we can use to actually cancel out the atmosphere by firing lasers into the atmosphere measuring how the laser distorts and bending the mirrors of the telescope to cancel out what the atmosphere is. Doing is gonNA adaptive optics as amazing technology so in terms of actually how to do it faster. It's partly funding limited. But it's also just a lot of engineering work. It's really hard to do. So even if NASA had an budget. I don't think it will be able to go that much faster if we did have more money. We could launch more telescopes we could look at more objects and that would accelerate the research overall. But I think we're already in a reasonable funding session at the moment which not many areas of astronomy and science but the search for life seems shooting reason about. I won't turn down more money if someone's offering it but we wouldn't be able that much faster than we going on the moment. Let's get I suppose one of the reasons. You could go faster. If just most people wanted to get involved in it through inspiring people with Missions Tamaz and Virgina doing going. Just give people the opportunity to have a look at space. All the earth from space will inspire a new generation went absolutely and so I I often think about my own research and the big context. Let's say I'm able to look at the atmosphere of Habitable Planet? That's relevant was characterized and find out. This is a plant where it looks like. It could support life. I mean by the point I retire. What I would invasion is once we know Thera- habitable worlds out there. We know this life. But we don't know what it's like that I hope will inspire a generation of engineers to really think about how we could build probes to go to some of the nearest exit pundits and to really start our journey towards becoming an interstellar species not just an interplanetary species like we're working towards Mars. We do know of some technologies we could build in the near future to send very very small probes to nearby pundits. So we're talking about things like having a satellite weighs one gram with a huge reflective solar sail we call it and you basically blasted with laser and the laser reflects off the solar sail. And it accelerates this spacecraft to about twenty percent the speed of light and even at that speed. It takes you a good twenty years to get to the nearest star. Who came up with that would dreaming and you woke up and you had any head. You just think that was ridiculous. I'll move on to something else now. So we radiation pressure and it's actually known for over one hundred years now that you do this but having a satellite the ways Warren Graham would we be able to talk to this satellite? Was this engine. That the technology on a satellite they used to the size of a bus in the sixties or seventies. We can now make into something cubesats. Which is this tiny little thing that you can shoot us. Hundreds of them on board rocket launch. We can't build these one. Gram satellites could build a website to do anything. Today is relying on. Moore's law in the miniaturization of technology if we can shrink a satellite. That's about a meter today to something. That's a couple of centimeters weighs one gram and you've got to imagine you have a camera. On this you've got to have a communications array to get the signal back to the earth you might even send hundreds of these in like a shotgun swarm towards the system case summer destroyed on route or stop working. And then you've got to build this huge laser on the to actually file at the death star impose etc them. Can you just explain? Moore's love for people. Don't Oh yes so. So Moore's law is it explains why computers get better over time Traditionally it was that every eighteen months to two years the amount of transistors. The central unit of computers would double the number that you actually put an given area now starting to get the point where it's hard shrink the mall. Because you can't get transitioned smaller than atoms. There is a finite Limit so now. It's more about the cost to put a given amount of computing units. These transistors into a given volume is dropping jeff so it just means computers have been reliably getting better actually exponentially better over time smaller and cheaper. Yep Yeah she's good friend Ron. It's incredible that there are some tentative signs of slowing down in the last few years but still progressing at a reasonable rate. It just means we're GONNA have to get more inventive. We can't just shrink things now because the more you shrink them you also produce more heat as well as you've got to think out. Get rid of that heat. So there are more interesting architecture. Like three dimensional computing chips being developed. So I don't think it's going to stop within the next ten years. Also we'd just means that the people built in these chips are getting more creative right so I want some predictions from you. You've already given me the prediction of within ten years. You think that we're gonNA find signs of life signatures of life on other planets. When do you think that human might visit one of those plans? I think we could have probe without anyone onboard taking the first photograph of an exit planet by the end of twenty sixties. If there's a real push for it in the technologies there in terms of getting a person to an exit planet a spacecraft with hundreds of thousands of people ways a lot more than one gram and you can't really accelerate it up to high speeds so just the journey will take at least a couple of centuries just to get that so I think the first person could be next planet by the end of the twenty two hundreds. I think it's really difficult to imagine. Distance can imagine what it's like to walk down into local town but I can't imagine what is is there any way of scaling it down notes so visualizing okay so if you have a car that does a really good job and just laughs for for decades before it finally breaks down you might just about be able to drive from the Earth to the moon which space probe can do in ten hours that probe that can do that union. Ten hours will take about seventy thousand years to get to the nearest star about four light years away is just the distances involved galaxy. Just mind boggling. It's very difficult to grasp When you put it like there isn't much hope for individuals seeing changes on that scale this Semitic scientists think about. What would it be like in a thousand years time? Would we be able to be on these? Different planets would be able to have cities built on a tariff foam mas but in terms of what you are. Yo- anyone else's living at the moment would be to see. It's so unfortunate that we would just we'll never be. I still aspire to five hundred. I'm not giving up just yet. All right I think this is probably a place to leave. I've taken up a love your time and I really appreciate has been so interesting learning about it all. Yeah thanks for the fascinating question. Is that was a great conversation. I'm glad you enjoyed I'll just say that your youtube channel. It's got so much fantastic information this anyone listening that hasn't yet seen moshing colonist and there'll be a link in the description about it as well. The search amazing information that you've reported from the various space missions that have been going on around the world. Why really like about everything that you say you quantify with science with facts with research that people or yourself with done as well why info this podcast as well that everyone coming on as a guest can tell the truth about things in an open space. Is there anything else that you want to tell anybody other than obviously your youtube channel that you want to tell them about the the last thing that I'll say to and office the so it's very easy? Just in day to day life to lose track of the bigger picture about what's going on and particularly it can always feel very negative. What we see in the major in terms of all the wars going on as fabulous strife going on but if you actually look at objective figures things like literacy rates things like the average amount of income that people have around the world child mortality. Things are getting better. We are living in the safest healthiest best time to be alive. That is providing more opportunities for anyone has any point in human history and all the trend seem to indicate this is continuing Swazi. Say when thinking about the future. Although dystopia fiction is very popular these days the future is going to be bad to them what we have today so yes be excited about the future. That's a nice way to leave it off. Fearful thank you very much. So they have Ryan McDonnell change in the world if you want to find out more about him he's on at Mushin colonist or you can visit him on his website. Distant worlds dot space off just said. He's got great YouTube Channel Martian. Colonists if you live this music as. I'm sure you do go into the rest of stuff out she's called Laura James Big Thank you to her for Lamy. Use Music tracks rooftops find online on Youtube on spotify. She's well with. Listen if you want to get in touch with me. Tell me what you liked him. Don't like you can find me on twitter at fascinate pod. If you can't be doing that no worries. I'll see you next time anyway. Also hit the subscribe button. Thanks for listening
18 April, 2020 Episode 765 Who Has the Mars Maps?
"This is twists this weekend. Science episode number seven hundred sixty five recorded on Wednesday March Eighteenth. Twenty twenty has the Mars maps. I'm Dr Kiki. And today we will fill your head with virus crocks and flies but first thanks to the burroughs wellcome fund and our patriots sponsors for their generous support of twists. You can become a part of the Patriot community. Patriot dot com slash this week in science claimer disclaimer disclaimer. If you went outside today and you're not essential staff. Why maybe you haven't heard we're in. The midst of a global pandemic virus has gone viral despite not getting any likes so we all need to come together to fight it by staying as far apart as possible and while the world is reeling from the reality that nature still exists that we are still very much connected to nature and that even the smallest form of life a life form. That doesn't even check. All the boxes for the normal definition of life can bring about consequences that shutdown civilizations the world around one thing that can't be shutdown. That's right it's this weekend science coming up next a. I got kind of mine I can. I WANNA learn everything up with new. Discover if it happened every day. There's only one place though happen. Good Sites Yuki and a good science to you to player and everyone out there. Welcome to another episode of this week in science. We are back again with more science to bill at your mind. That's right to suit all the curious thoughts that you've had that's what we're here for and that's why we love coming back every single week this week. Justin has been trying to join us but his Internet is not cooperating. He's out on a on a farm in a bus so I don't know maybe he'll join us at some point during the show if things come together all of the electrons align but until that time we are going to have a great show no matter what I have stories about. Covert nineteen so that we can talk about some of the the big news. That's gone gone on the science for the last week and also some transplanted limbs Blair. What is in the animal corner while my goodness I have A racing memories I have crocodiles and for the very end of the show. Actually have some positive news about the current. A virus time band tastic. We like positive news year. That's a little bit of positivity and optimism mixed in we also have a melting T. rex with us this evening. We are going to start our show with an interview with Dr Fred Kayla. The third and he will be talking with US ABOUT MAPPING. Mars which is very exciting. Whether or not he remains t. rex form certainly does depend on the strength of the batteries in that costume. It's all about the Allegra. It's all about the electrons. Okay as we jump in I would like to remind you that subscribing do the twist podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Youtube or facebook is going to bring you twist each and every week that right every time. A new episode is published. It will come to you because you're subscribed so search for this week in science or visit twists dot org. Now it's time for this science. Okay read Kayla has a PhD in Mars Geology and according to his twitter bio he works with insight. The Mars Science lab on curiosity and the Mars Twenty Twenty mission at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory mapping landing sites in return for food is this. Is this the way that they pay you at NASA? Yeah Okay Okay Okay does. Is your the amazing thing about that inside very very warm? A huge it's like it's like a fly emerging from a Christmas Omar goodness the curious flying ever seen anyways. Thank you anyways. Yeah so I'm a geologist by training But I was always happy to have the skill I have. You might be working version backward on Mars and yes I came to. Jpl About eight years ago and we're laying analysis for the curiosity rover and from there. The mission mapping help track the rover as well as every place of new science everytime we find Iraq on the ground. I do my best to always have a Rockingham. Jobless right too is that is that a regular rockers at Mars Rock. I wish is Mars rocks. Now it's a piece of granite from my hometown. I grew up a piece of Granite Luton. Actually that's really true anyways. Wants her short. Yeah so I'm there I so I work on. The Various Rover Missions Sober Limited on insight and Beasley. Anything going to Mars. I try to a more or less involved on the surface things nice and on your bio for NASA. It says that you are the keeper of the maps. Yes what does that mean hail? I take all the team and I stick them in a box and say mine no I basically it's it's keeping track of helping keep track where the road is every day Sort on the river moves. We need to find out where it went It kind of keeps track of itself. But if we don't tell where it actually is it. Forget so like some days. It's like I'm here. We know you're over here because we didn't add eventually that over here would be like a kilometer away so I how nature that base map is assembled and was put together and then we track the rover every day as we as a new belong. Also keep track of all the rocks that we use science on awesome Iraq or shoot account cam laser to get the chemistry or the arm down to take a picture drill. I WanNa know where that is so time we can build up the science story of you know. Here's where we landed. You're like okay. What the bay. Where the rocks like they're now on shark how? Those rocks changed over time so I just kind of the geometry. Things are various instruments so here on earth we have satellites that allow us to use. Gps and even with GPS. When I call you know a a uber or lift or one of these car services sometimes. They want to pick me up halfway down the block. They you're on a bridge but it looks like you're actually in the ocean right right. So how do you? I mean the fact that we have. Gps here in its sent inaccurate at times How do you manage that on another planet where we don't have satellites? Well we have do we. Well we do. Yup We have five satellites Mars Odyssey you about boy years. Old Mars orbiters about ten to fifteen Maven Martin Express Isro from India. And I'm probably missing one but it got him five sites in orbit but they don't have. Gps I mean you could kind of make. Gps but it wouldn't be super accurate so aren't ups. System has twenty five ish satellites that are constantly ordering at different rates in any one time to get your location you need about. Menia minimum of three. You really want e at one time. So the constellations as always like eight satellites overhead on Mars. You're lucky to get wine. Maybe too at the same time and so you just can't get that same position. Akerson so don't do. Gps literally myself and One of the person Tim Parker Where location scientist and so we keep track of what we Martian. Gps FOR THE ROVERS. So basically we have a very high detail base map of where. We're we're the rover is and it's the pixels is about four hundred seventy two pistols like the size of a laptop and then we take images on the ground and we literally just match them up. Together mainland's okay. Being this rock is at that rock in the order. That's craters at crater Locate the rover on the surface. And we that every time the river drops it's very manual process. It's an old liking this year. Busier triangulating gets location however we are usually within twenty five centimeters fifty centimeters anytime. The rover drives so More accurate than GPS on earth by every manual process. Drive that far. And how? But you're saying that you know sometimes better where the rover is. The rover does so. That's how your figuring it out. Then how is the rover figuring out where it is? Okay so the rover inside has a I. You inertial measurement unit so basically when it moves it can measure that motion but it has a certain level of accuracy to that. Zoe Can Kelly what. It's moving forward to the side or turning pivoting indigo a certain way and get an accuracy of. Let's say five centimeters like let's say ten meters by similar accuracy. You drive twenty meters. It's you know maybe twenty five centimeters. It's forty meters. It's a meter off and then farther we go the more gets off so eventually when you're driven kilometers like we have driven almost twenty kilometers. You'd be off by five kilometers if you didn't have anyone like skews it around to the right place so you know we're short drives. It's not a big deal but for long drives it really becomes an issue like no kind of Well Yeah it's it's a little bit of that. We actually DO COUNT THE SPINNING THE WHEELS. The revolutions of the tire of the wheels and that gives us one measure of distance But we also the direction of where it moves and then we also try to look it like. I'm every ill drive. We'll take a bunch of pictures and then we'll drive again take pictures again and try to see like like. Oh I think that rock is that rock that means we move ten centimeters. I thought we moved fifteen okay. I'll make a correction but eventually over time. It's just not as accurate as mainly every once in a while doing the physical match it and it's actually From A computer vision sampling. It's really difficult. Because we're you know on the ground you can see things that are like a centimeter you know you can see little Powell could see this You can see the whole fossil that existed if only it existed on Mars so my goodness we all in awards but when you try to compare that something. Can you find this on this piece of paper more. No you all you just? You'll never see it so it's just so the rubber had the same problem you could solve together and knowing where it is. Have you ever been in a situation like thinking about how the wheels could spin? Have you ever been in a situation where it's slippery rocks and the wheels kind of spin and odometers going? No movement is happening and yes yes yeah absolutely not often but occasionally we do cross some bigger sheets of sand or areas of sand. The one I can think of Curiosity was hidden. Valley was a big valley actually is somewhere on that map there down towards the bottom. Yeah that's okay you have to go up Let's see the Moon Valley in values aren't pointing at your screen which you don't see. I don't think it's actually it's not labeled there any case it's a it was like a street size with Molly Sandy. We're like oh we'll dry. It'll be fine and then we got halfway through and then raw wheels spinning like oh he drove across Ono So does happen. Not often is generally we try to drive on Brown. That's three firm and does this look a lot. You know every once in a while still happens but you know we've always backed out and been able to get around it so we've been that way we sometimes do. We've driven Twenty Meters Durban twenty centimeters and then we have like. Oh ooh okay. Let's rethink what happened. Mostly do you get the images back and you go. We're not where we thought we were going to be done. This way way off and we have to figure it all out again. Yes exactly and so. Every time we drive we always take images at the end because we need to know where we are. You may think we went twenty meters. What actually went to critically important changes the whole mission. That right now what we're GonNa do the next day. Yeah what what kind of things are important. So you in in part of your your role. You're finding these These landing locations so the Landing Site for the Mars Twenty Twenty mission insight. What is important for a landing site? And how do you figure out what these spot where these spots are while two parts First of all of the science has to be interesting. We really been doing the fall the water's kind of massive. Nasr's mission so we've replaced that maybe been former lakes like gale crater where you're acidy is same thing for Yousef greater where this Spirit rover the Moore over spirit landed or where June landed. Which was that was like a sandy shallow sea In plano Jazirah pater also eight The should seem to be like a crater filled as the lake and then a a river delta at the end emptying the lake so anywhere with water Now I'm really looking for a little bit more than just water but actually evidence of past life Which is really hard to do You know on earth. That's hard to find a piece of rock and girl into it and take it out and find the ancient microbe from two million years ago. You know sometimes we get some results in something like I dunno catalysts that thing and so they look at you as the keeper of the maps and they say just you know throw attack at it. Tell us where the life is. We're GONNA land. They're pretty much. Um but you know just one place. They're a bunch of places on Mars fifty hundred on place that people put time in studies in looking for Mormons. Aol winding water flow. This way and we see these minerals and that means it. Was this type of this type of environment. Well maybe microbes Gabriel there So we So that's one part. The other part is is simply we have A limit of physical capability the engineering part So we have to land below a certain elevation Mars with Mars's atmosphere is incredibly thin. It's six thousands of earth's so you know you got to go really deep Before you get enough air essentially On Mars to start to use things like parachutes. In fact. It's so thin. It's so Mars is kind of A. It gives always liver problem because it has enough air that atmosphere that you will burn up if you try to fly straight in however it doesn't have enough atmosphere to parachute to slow you all the way down to you. Just lie down and they just pop the bottom so he's a combination of bounds parachutes an rockets. This lars down to we can land So in that case we have to land below a certain elevation Mars that limits parts of mark the parts of our super dusty. You can't really dusty areas either a because we will get too much Dust on panels. Or it's simply everything's GonNa be comparable dust and we won't see anything. We might have meal bitter drive-thru it'll be like They called the Foo foo dust. It's so it's so porous that you'd just be like foam pit. Jump the phone. I can't get out. It would be something like that. The Technical Name Foo Foo desks. Do the technical name names. I've been in lots of agonists but I yeah so a- so those those clothes off essentially whole areas of Mars landing so we try. We exclude those out and pick the science areas outside those areas. And then we designed towards Where the science targets are we also try to keep close to the equator so it's warmer Farther North or South Dakota the colour gets and then as just use a lot of energy and then we can't do as much science. We have to like sit there all day to do one science observation. If you're away up north So anyways those are the kind of things we use L. pickle. Any side of Mars. Right Wilma Science. Lewitt ENGINEERING. The combination of the two. How do you? How do you know looking at pictures from the surface? What the action. I mean as a geologist how do you? How do you go about figuring out the characteristics of the surface just based on pictures? Sure Whether you who food dust or or or not Different instruments to for just take pictures just like we do on earth You know from it and we can tell landforms you compare the landforms directly to landforms we see on earth so earth analogs can tell us things about what was happening on Mars You know we see things that look like like beds you say things that look like rimmer streams that are meandering. We see all canines we see. Glaciers are evidence that they shes so we do that directly earth comparison. The other part is that we we can look in visible light to look at shape and form morphology also get chemistry so we see rocks You know we see carbonates that tells us something about Al's rocks were formed If we we also look in the heat version of of the whole spectrum so we can look at the heat signature so you see rocks really a break during the day but then they're cold at night. Well that's probably sands that tells me material properties if it's the opposite it's cold during the day but warm at night that means it's probably a solid rock in so that we can use that to kind of cheese out with. Hala rocks were made and how they put down. They form He does we can't have peace listings together and sometimes we do a lot of math. We say like what if you had a volcano adding silica for the lava and you combined it with a Lotta Nicole on something else and then you put them together. You know what would be the result? And what would the land form of like and so do those comparisons as well It's really tricky. It's it's it's a lot of detective work More so and sometimes there are things on Mars simply different and we don't now at tastes a lot of poking at problems and you know. I think there's quite a few people who who will admit that you know ten years ago or even five years ago. This is what my PhD was on by the way it was completely wrong. But that's okay you know that is science and especially Planetary Science. You know we're GONNA go out on a limb a Lotta Times and and that's okay. We have to push it a lot of directions to finally narrow down where we think. It's actually happen. That's fascinating yeah. I'm just A. I'm what what have been some of the most surprising findings that you've been a part of. Oh boy. I think the most surprising one is In gale crater work dress river. Is You know we expect there to be evidence of water and it's a job that had water the more we look like. We see everything like water was everywhere gale crater which may be surprised that the more we look at Mars the more we see that water was all over the planet Think of Mars right. Now it's cold. It's rusty it's dry. There's no atmos- almost atmosphere varying hospitable and we used to have like this little pinpricks of ideas that there was water on the surface and now it's not like it was just everywhere now we you don't argue where the water was me. Worry about maybe was it is or how long did it last. The last two billion years Water out yesterday on the surface or was the last time we saw was two billion years ago. Three years ago Kylie arguing some of that many show but waterways everywhere gale. That was certainly so I mean the big discovery is like we went to. We want to find evidence of a lake and see if it was habitable. And that's what we found. We drilled in Yellowknife Bay on the rocks. Even when they drilled the rocks turn into a powder and the powder was green. Now or greenish or Greyish All the rocks we had drilled or are scraped on Mars were red and so when a geologic test for any rock is a street tests. Which alert is taking a rock and rubbing it on a piece of Below porcelain that in just scrapes the rock. And you get a powder. Netpower tells you about the rocks. So if the powder's red generically for Martha's saying it's very oxidized which means not very happy environment your your Your rocks Down are gonna like acids are going to eat up life Lease rocks restricting. Green Greyish. Was that told us? There was a a reducing environment which means there is less oxygen which needs it was more like water from a lake on earth and then we measured the the mineral elements inside the rocks drill and they were filled with all these cool nutrients at early life would've loved so you could have taken like you earth microbes at your way back. You know three four billion years ago on Mars found late through them in. They probably would have been happy. So that was. That was was exactly what we wanted to find. And it's what we did and that you know and we did it within three hundred earth days you know so. It's just like you couldn't ask for anything better. We did it like almost immediately. You know You know Mars Likes TO EAT spacecraft. We've been very successful with the. Us missions as a you know. Nineteen nineties on By you know any day to the last day of of the mission so to get a science return to get the primary. Science return is so important we really found it and we are diction right and that was pretty awesome now. It's now everything not everything brady owing we so we hadn't gotten to the mountain yet. Um Hr it's five kilometers tall a big sack of rocks that we've ain't tells the history of Mars and we're literally dragging from the bottom the top in geology. That's the oldest rocks basically up to the youngest rocks and math was really exciting about gale crater. Why we went there. Maybe look at Mars history in this one section So every day every day we can go higher up Mount Shar senior rocks. We're just learning more about the whole plan to super excited our APP. How far up have you gone? So far We're are bound while or the whole height of the mountain. Where maybe twenty ish percent okay? So we're about one hundred meters above the landing site Zoar were passed. Thought the bottom But we're getting there. We're we're making our way up and length from warm it. We're our whole point was to go to the mountain but we could win the mountain. It was just you roth so we landed me. I'll light tinkling away. And so spending all these years just trying to get to that point Even though we found really cool stuff at where we land was the best. Buy You know we really want to go the mountains. So we're taking your you know we're trying to work our way up and says precisely twice the way we will only get up about Going to throw out a number of forty percent of the way on simply because the top is rough. Harvard at the top of the mountain is mostly all the same material. As far as you tell so we're excited. We get to that point where you go from. What we think is wet. Mars the bottom of the mountain to the interface. Where we get to dry Mars. I mean done. Did it perfect? You know yeah I mean you're only you've been there several years and our twenty percent I mean. Do you think there's any possibility? I mean the engineering of curiosity is amazing. Yeah well you know it. Yeah we have the trade Science today science tomorrow which one view on it you know so you can stay here and you all science but its in this small area Or He knew a little science science science. Deal the signs of here. You can get this bigger picture. So we have to balance that Yeah Engineering Wise. The rovers doing awesome had some issues. We have some issues. We had some issues with the whales on. We saw those problems. Jpl does seem to be doing. We've got all the insurance basically working at under percents Some are little degraded but not so much that we're not going to get some made science so you know. I think we can do it. We just have to you know. Eat Bar I don't know masks in the right direction. Something like that. Cameras pointed in the right direction. Sound like that yeah. That's everyone wants to go higher It's just a matter of you know Science Day Science tomorrow. Yeah yeah that's it. You have to really figure out where it what you want. And what's more important your goals absolutely. Yeah figuring that out for as far as what's going on right now we've got Insight that has also had some issues it landed landed. Great ended up pretty much right where you wanted to be. Is it still doing? Well what are you? What's your role with insights? Since it's landed my role was very early in the mission style. Keeping the maps of the map because slander as a move. The was that we wanted to know in front of the landings In front of the lander Where can we put down the SEISMOMETERS SIZE? And the heat pro. Hp three In this area just in front of the rover by We're praying for those instruments where they will get the science and where they can operate for you know forever until the They stopped side. Stop working So I helped map out that landing area and then Did all the web based tool to help. Scientists look in the different areas and engineers and those instruments wet Once that was done they found a good place monitor. Nice quiet and what the pro and then you know my job was done and I walked away. per se Yeah so they're they're doing really well says the seismometers size is doing great. We're seeing all sorts of weird earthquakes. Mars quakes Myong Mars papers. That just came out in science and talk about how you know. We have these serious rumblings. You don't understand. We have other things which we think are active faulting Marsh wakes up Mars. Fakes happening is also things were were really looking for something. Some big event. That will happen somewhere near us. So it'll it'll send a seismic wave all the way down to the core and come back so we can see what the interiors like haven't had one yet by on. We're waiting for that but yeah it's returning all sorts of information about the The formation across how thick it is and Just how active Mars is right. Now you know we we. We can only make it assumption like we know like you know we always think about earth earthquakes all horrible things but they also tell us about what's moving in what's not On the surface that further obsolete for help us decide where we live. Where can we safe but on Mars about like what's the Catholic is the cross? How how big is the core doesn't even have a core as the thing that blew my mind on? That earth has a metallic core Mars. We don't know it could have a completely molten core. Nothing solid is just a big ball of hot Goo It's weird we never or there's a core but it's solid in. It's not moving in. It's frozen all the way out to the surface frozen arrested We don't know but that's why it says bombers their H We three Yeah Abbot of a rough time. You know we've only drilled about That far down into the subsurface With the literal drill curiosity so we are ideas with the social services. Like we don't really know So we were like. Oh this looks like it has your three meters that we can get down to the surface but e probing impound down and let's be good and then it went down about that much in it stops so Mars tricky right now so we we literally have Let's see brought this probe actually put the tip of the arm with its scoop on the end or a kind of pushing it down money hammer and has it hammers down. We kind of push a little bit more a little bit more. Lewis more you get as deep into the soil they can. We really want to measure the heat coming from the center of the planet and because then tells about how activists but we can't do that until we're down pretty far while they are now actually thought that far. It's only about a meter or two. We can start to feel from the planet by. We're not going to get that deal. We don't think we're going to keep trying so it's just a little bit longer but we'll see how it so fast retried. Yeah digging on the hang on Mars. The surface where you landed. There's there's there's a hard patch and the question now I would imagine is. Is it like that? Everywhere is it. Justice area is. That is is it. Is it dappled right? Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah and just You know we're an area that originally a very old lava field and so we see on the surface there are lots of rocks everywhere so it does the area. We're kind of in this little depression that we think has a lot of soiled by it could be soil mixed with a lot of big rocks and so there's just a big rock service. You'll never see the look smooth glass and then you go and that's what we're kind of worried about but we don't know yet there's lots of things of the probe and how it hammers and and how touches the soil texture soil enough to actually push down versus push off when the Middle Hammer like him down and back up so it has a little recoil and so it was not touching the soil. It actually will bounce out and did that. A few times is we're like I was thinking thinking thinking like backup. Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding. And so you know like why doing that. That's ridiculous But physics never done it before so you know. Just keep trying new things that's got to be. The most fun is the unknown nature and the exploration and the you know the on the spot troubleshooting as well because of because of all the unknowns absolutely warm. A scientist and engineer lease in terms of My Day to day the engineers. Yeah I mean they. They love this stuff. They love to figure things out and they really really really well. So yeah I mean but it's also pressuring. Of course you know you imagine. There's some science you like. He just go down. I want to get my science But you know you the best we can. Yeah there's that animation they our were putting the the scoop on the tip of the give it a little bit of pressure to sink down. Yeah so that's A. Perseverance are soon be launching rumor in July. That's right it was named perseverance. That's the name of the Mars. Twenty twenty twenty twenty mission and Yeah presided Y- are you excited about the landing location? You tell us about the the landing spot. I perseverance sure So perseverance is going to judge crater which is slightly north of the equator and it is a a forty five ish kilometer diameter crater. Used to having an agent lake so we can see a stream that went into the crater and then went out the other side and at the entrance point there's a huge river delta which were very excited about. So what we're hoping is that Either the lake had some kind of organisms or Organism floated downstream and deposited in the lake So so it has a lot of plays in it A lot of carbonates which we don't see a lot of places on Mars. So we're hoping that you know wireless there is organic related or at least may preserve the organics Slow things guy looking for someone his age. Another ancient lake look in this ancient riverbed see if any age or were preserved inside that river delta or maybe within the carbonates themselves Basler go on somewhere else is gonna be go there and just a general back and I was like the series kind of volcanic. So there's a lot of heat we have heat and you have a lot of water so the water is liquid and so those combinations of warmth to kind of keep you moving or doing something and then. The water really is a great combination of terms of microbial life. You know you got water but maybe frozen too cold and they just can't do stuff right you go up to the Arctic. And what do you want? Do you want to build a big puffy coat? No hot chocolate. Mars is very sad. So heat is good is a good thing. So we're really excited. This place where we have having sue elements be asser. The rovers may go there and collect samples. These places you think piece have our inequality F- Or in the cases of instruments like Sherlock and Pixel they can actually or even Super Cam They can actually look at Iraq and see if there's organics in the raw which is at new capability in terms of like visually seeing them And then we'll take certain sample. Who put them in little tubes Will drop them reserve place in service and then a whole `nother mission called Marciano term. Come COLLECT THEM. Put THEM IN A rocket. Put Him to orbit another space going to swing by grabbed them. Sent back to Earth and then drop it drop at home. I didn't want I did not think we were ready to samples back. Oh we're we're so ready. Yeah we will. Literally drill samples will a piece of rock about like this cigarette tubes seal it leave it somewhere on the ground then yeah then. The emission have to land there. It's probably GONNA be another it while plan is to have another we call over. It will literally just drive from the Gogi samples bring him back and then stick them in a rocket. Go for that. Rocket takes off again goes into orbit Twain from Earth. Grab that come back home. In another face path is going to detach and then land somewhere and we collect Super Complicated. But we're all in eighteen at the most complicated part of this rover is that whole sample handling system that literally it takes a drills core it sticks it inside the rover. Does all these things. There's actually there is a little mini arm inside the rover and all in the belly and all it does is grab sample and turns it around. Picture seals it and then when it's ready taking them and drop it on the surface it's super complicated and everything has to be super clean and you know in the side of the river. We can't go put a wrench on later. It has to work all the time. One hundred percent so yeah. That's just getting the rock. You sounds like the rover is like eating it digesting it and like pooping out the already own on pretty much it. Yeah that Unnoticed OR UNMENTIONED exercise. I want break it out. But yes we're GONNA rock samples. Leave it to zoologist yes. Yes robots and the great part is we wanna go collected and bring it home. I don't know why all just so happy look by collected. It's awesome and hopefully there won't be any microbes inside of the room. Not that then gets will. That's exactly that's right Yes we do all these Very intense cleaning exercise than we have a certain. Minimum amount of microbes are gaining macsharry micro but really organic material anytime were allowed in the system. So yeah it's going to be super scrubbed and then zone. So yes yeah. That'll be amazing. Are you responsible or are you part of the team? That's responsible for marking where each of these little poops ends up as they drop. Put it like that way Actually yes I will mark all the rubber boots. Yeah no I will. In fact they will be probably some of the best documented locations on Mars. We have to We need to know exactly where it is because the other over has to come and find it so yeah we will know downs the millimeter exactly where all those dudes are. Yeah so armee. Joke my My job on the mission is kind of like MSL. I'm I'LL BE MAPPING SPECIALIST. One of two myself in. Duck Nathan Williams. We will help you talk. Whether over is the areas where we want to do science where science happened and allow these all mission what pitches. We took a sample than where they are will. Go to call the dossier with we'll go back to scientists so that we can we get a Sam's back. Here's what we learned from Mars for me. Instruments now goes through your instruments out them view all the science. You can do that. You can't do Mars so yeah. That is so cool. That's just a I think that this all the way it all works together is just fascinating. All the details. That need to be figured out Right now as we're in the middle of this cove in nineteen crisis growing races and more and more people are staying home now. These are robots that are on the surface of Mars who who's watching the robot. Everybody home didn't plan it to be this way. But so when the mission I land we kind of bring everyone together It's GonNa work out the very early days of the mission so he kind of Tom. Easily the other But after ninety days we actually all go back to our own universities so In general the the Mars missions are any any planetary missions really works from remote operation so you have a bunch of engineers who can work together. Jpl by now it's all computers. Would you a lot of meetings? But it certainly the case that we have you know we have wax or zoom. You know we dial into meetings all the time we're actually used to working remotely You know sometimes even okay. I'm going to get a little thing you know. Meaning you don't really want to go to our meeting. They need me for five minutes. I'm just going to balance my office. So remote. Operations is actually preternatural. For a lot of the mission operations people. There are only a few details. That were trying to work out this week in terms of bomb People who need like a certain machine and can log onto. It isn't enough Internet connection debuted as complicated tasks but otherwise. We're kind of you know. We were kind of setup I didn't it didn't take much. I mean for me personally to transition working remotely. In fact a lot of times I WILL. so Jimmy All's in Pasadena California. I'm in Huntington Beach California. Which knows is a good forty miles away and not fundamental rush hour traffic now. Sometimes you know if I if the operations is really early I will work from home or stop somewhere a get a coffee. Decent work at know rush hour on Russia and they go in so remote operations is I'm kind of built into our our our in terms of how we run things so in that sense. We're we're we're very lucky Never were kind of appeared for it on there still are And robots are used to working remotely. The robots are always used to work remotely Alex. Whatever another day yeah we do. Yeah so we're we're still takes a little bit transitions are people need that need to be there but you know like everything socialism saying if you get instead of having forty people in the room you can have to. You know you saw a lot of problems. So yeah we're making do. Yeah but then you know that's just mish operations which is like twenty percent or thirty percent. Jpl arrest is labs and things like that and so you know. There's you know trickiest that way. You know you can't can't pretend people in a in a small room doing the things that they do. So yeah by the way for mission operations were were actually. We were very easy to translate rain date more than a week and we were like Okay Mirghani. We got a cigarette ruge. Yeah human going in terms of landing sites and places that we have plans to go and places that you're looking at and obviously you know Mars very well maybe as well as the back of your own hand but could you have Could you have if you could choose a place that you would go to land on Mars? Where would you go semi human or just? Don't just just. Is there a spot that if you had the choice you okay? Oh I see oh where would I the next mission? Wow that's a tough one. I mean Ballantyne errors is probably is pretty exciting. It's the largest Bali in the solar system. It's as long as the United States is wide Certainly much cheaper their Grand Canyon so lots of history there. Why I you know. I like all of Mars. It's kind of hard but I also I mean the other thing is like You know they're I mean like If done by humans I mean like I was into gale crater. I think it's very exciting or for a bunch of reasons But you know I'm a little bias mission a law that was kind of my my my Big Mission to join Yeah I think like going to the mall. Kino's like you don't you don't really like almost every rock on. Mars is basaltic mechanic. The some way shape or form chemical wise but actually visiting volcano would be pretty. Exciting lava flow Doing some measurements. They're going to caps would be a pre exciting drilling in some ice looking at the ice layers and seeing what's in there was what. What is it in the ice calm? Socially deep into it I think would be exciting as well But yeah or almost anywhere. I think sometimes some works by. It's like it's all good. Yeah let us to go back to use of crater which was like Very interesting like these weird. Did you take features? Which may be caught. Sprains like well are they. You know I go there and crack while often they look at or close so that so now. I'm wondering okay. If you physically could go to Mars yes would you? Yes in a second I want yes I wanna come home now. One way you know warp drive or anything science right. If you could go to Mars would you go I would go I would go? Yeah There are people who would and I don't blame them I would go. I would probably cry or pass out the whole way up and and the holy down by email. That's fine I'll deal No I would love to go I definitely like him home. But you have to question. Just would I go? Yeah absolutely it just would be too excited. I mean you know. He was going to be born six months waiting to get dances. We'll come back. I'm like yeah I'm going to Mars. I touch all those rocks. I wanted to touch every day when I lived. The Monitor You know I just I would do it For better for worse. I don't know if I WOULD WANNA go. It seems we're in a chat room in YouTube is asking. And who is the need to convince to let you go really point burst? Nasa has now then the Higher Order. You know my family of course. Oddly a weird but as science also not Amar scientists science. So we go out. You know like I'm talking about the rocks talking about the plants perfect match but we like. Oh Yeah let you go. I mean I know he'd WanNa go so we have. You know I have the the Mars Pass. I don't know the arts opportunity. Mars free you know is very important to have that discussion. Some point never going to happen. Yeah no I think you'll be okay but I mean you know I I do boys so that'd be a little tough but you know painting on the day they might be like. Yeah go dad come on yes. Y'All risk home schooling situation having different saying never come. This has been just wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us and talking and talking to us about Mars and mapping and all of the stuff that you're you've been working on and will be working on this is your excitement is palpable. Thank you for having me on this great pie and thanks for bringing the dinosaur always way. They all need a little bit of levity. Where can people find you online if they would like to follow you? And you're mapping adventures Sure I am on twitter at circular CR Q. U. E. L. A. R. Is My personal account as an asset account. So you wear you know. It's it's half. Mars mapping half Probably shouting but But yeah you know I I certainly Bring Science when fantastic. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful night. Move along with the rest of our show. Thanks so much for joining us the U2. Thank you everyone. This was Dr Fred Kayla and we are going to move on with our show. We've got some science in the second half stay tuned for a little bit more this week in science. Thank you for listening to twists. You're the reason that we are able to do what we do. Every single week bringing you up to date in down to Earth views on science and sometimes out to Mars us on science discoveries. And with your help we can do even more together. That's right. We can bring a scene perspective to a world full of misinformation head to twist dot org right now. Click on the Patriot link and choose your level of support be a part of bringing sanity and science to more people also. I would like to. I think that's what I needed to do. That's what I needed to say you can. You can share twist with people. That's what we want to do. We can't do this with Archie. Really we need you. We need you And we are back. You're listening to this weekend science. Yes you are. We're back and Dr Calif. You're still here. Do you WanNa talk science with us or you just gonNA listen. Listen Whatever okay and something if something is interesting to you? Feel free to hype in. We're fine is this thing on. That's right always assume a hot mic. All right jump into back into the science. We are going to talk about Kobe. Nineteen because that is at the top of everyone's minds right now and there is very interesting Science around this disease this virus that we are dealing with at the moment so first last week we had a quick combat. We had a conversation and Blair you asked about how safe your mail was to handle and just about that same day. I think it was that same day. A Pre print came out that has now been published in the New England Journal of Medicine on Aerosol and surfaced ability of SARS covy to as compared with SARS covy one now SARS Kobe to is the virus that Causes Kovic Nineteen and disease. We're dealing with right now. Sars Kobe won was virus behind the SARS epidemic. Now in their findings they discovered that SARS covy to the covert nineteen virus is a viable in aerosols for up to three hours but that was the duration of their experiments. And I don't know if it's longer so three hours. There is a reduction in the infectious particles in during that time so that it does reduce. But it's still viable in the air. Birth three hours now surfaces whereas it whereas viable lot more viable on plastic endless stainless steel. So they looked at plastic stainless steel copper in cardboard plastic and stainless steel. They found that it was viable for up to seventy two hours on plastic forty eight hours on stainless steel is why we want to wipe down surfaces copper. It was only viable for four hours. So copper has antiviral Properties that break down and keep it from being keep it from being viable for very long cardboard which you could associate also with you know Amazon packages or Your Mail. Yeah paper it was viable for twenty four hours so they measured a viable SARS. Covy two or twenty four hours after so. If you really wanNA feel safe when you're getting your mail navy you know let it sit for a day. Yeah I spray it with. Lysol defend what you're trying to protect yourself from right because if you're worried about you know people were saying. They were worried about packages from China. Right which at this point first of all it's everywhere so silly but it takes more than twenty four hours to stuff for stuff to get here from China. So that's not so much a concern Even most male I would say it takes more than twenty usually more than twenty four hours tame so really the only person you have to worry about. Is your meal guerrier Which you know. I've been seeing people very careful. So hopefully that's you know that's not too much of a concern but not yes. If you're very worried about it leave it leave it but just let it sit overnight they go. This is different from what I heard a couple of weeks ago. Yes but now we actually have a study that has looked at this and now we have some information to inform our actions which that's why I like science. It tells us things so now I'm going to demand all of my male be delivered in copper envelope. Sir That's put into this chip but but it didn't in copper container please really want to send me that spam go ahead put it in a cop able to all those mailers. It's going to get really expensive really fast. And then let me dive into a jump into this story now about our new reality that we're kind of looking at We are staring down the barrel of a very serious potentially societally changing epidemic that an analysis came out of a team from the Imperial College London on Stars on cove in nineteen and how it will potentially spread if we enforce certain ways of dealing with it whether we use what they called mitigation strategies which is just very light social distancing telling people who are seventy and older and have health issues that make them more likely to get the disease telling them to socially isolate and then specifically picking people who have the disease or who have tested for and getting them to isolate or be quarantined Mitigation is less impactful on society as a whole their other option was suppression. Which is basically what China has undergone in taking its society and putting it on and Italy as well putting their society under lockdown and massive social distancing practices to keep people apart reducing the sizes of gatherings This model the the the end of the story is that the thing that worked in their computer modeling of the disease was suppression even with Mitigation. That would work partially we would still overshoot our health care infrastructures capacity especially in the ICU and for ventilator machines which we would end even with mitigation having At least a million deaths in the United States and so then the suppression. Everything's great you suppress. And then the disease goes away doesn't spread. It seems really nice but the problem is if you ever stop. Suppressing the population still is not immune to it so the disease comes back again and so they say that we have to suppress this model suggests we have to do suppression tactics for eighteen months. Or which is the first estimate of when a vaccine will be available. That is so long. Yes that is so long but I was guy. Follow some amazing people on twitter and was reading the feed of an individual named Trevor Bedford. Who is a researcher up in Washington and he has been on the front lines of looking at the genetics of the of this virus since the beginning since the outbreak in Seattle and he has some thoughts about this This paper that's out of the Imperial College. The modeling that they've done they don't they only look at a few possibilities mitigation or suppression and a little bit of a little bit of variation within those two possibilities. But what he says. Is that if we really buckle down in terms of technology we may have a chance at not having to suppress as heavily that if we do something that is more like. South Korea's response in just testing everybody and tracking down the cases. Making sure that everybody who has it or is connected to somebody who's had it self isolates or Corinth self quarantines. Then that can we can stop and lead to suppression in a quicker and easier way. But testing he says is the main The main strategy and so he just says we just need to put all of our his one of his tweets here says first strategy revolves around a massive roll out of testing capacity. We believe that a significant proportion of epidemic transmission is due to mild. And maybe a symptomatic infections and that a lot of transmission may occur in the window before symptoms develop these routes can be reduced by huge rollout of testing capacity if someone can be tested early on their illness before they show symptoms they could effectively self isolate and reduce onward transmission compared to isolation when system symptoms develop then he goes on to say the second strategy that he that he has been reading about is related to cellphone location data which people may have issues with related to privacy but according to some some researchers who have been considering this option through cell phone location data we would be able to combine that data with data unknown positive cases to alert possible explode exposures to self isolate and get tested so there's also another strategy of getting zero logical ass as run on people to identify individuals who have recovered and are likely to possess immunity and those people could Return to the workforce and keeps society functioning so if we tested those people which we haven't started doing yet. His last is last week. Though I think is the most important together I believe. These and other case based strategies can bring down the epidemic. This is the Apollo program are times. Let's get to it. Yeah I mean important thing about that. Is that what all the scientists working in all the different ways to try to tackle this problem need is one thing and that's time and that is why? I'm working from home right now. That is why everyone is working from home right now because we are trying to give them time and I'm it's hard but I'm happy I'm happy to do it. I think it's You know they are you know. Maybe I'm maybe I'm healthy. Maybe I got a mild case but maybe my next door neighbor can't have that and the next person in the next person like you just don't know you don't know who get. Who can ride it out in new Canton. Why NOT I? I think for me personally like I'll I'll bite the bullet. Let's do it. You know I mean the I read that study or parts of results that study not Mike. Okay that's the hill. We have decline climb star climbing. You know it's it's not going to get better you. You can sit at the ball mill as long as you want. But if you don't start commute you'll never get to the top so just like just like yes that's right it all comes around and I also say I you know I'm at the end of my second day of working for home. I give believe how hard I'm finding it already because I am such an extrovert. I'm used to like popping over to my coworkers task and bouncing ideas off of the edge. Just it's been such a change for me intense change but I also have been spending all day on zoom meetings and social media and email and listening to podcasts. And there's all of this amazing technology that we have to stay connected. I cannot imagine what this would be like without the amazing connectivity that we have and so. I'm I'm trying really hard to focus on that and recognize that you know. Netflix added functionality for a suitable to watch movies together and pause and chat while we're watching movies and I think I I have hoped because I do feel like our society is is rising to the occasion. I see social media being used for the right thing to people for staying home to support each other to deliver groceries to people who are oversee five. I we gotta we gotta make it work and the way to do it is to stay hopeful and reach out and reach out to people who you know are having a hard time so I apologize for not reaching out more because I've been training for this isolation my entire life. I work in my basement. I've been training for this. I'm happy on the browser and look at Ross of Mars. I can't touch so many ways Mars every day that tactile item already one more story on the Cova Front. That is actually exciting. News there is an NIH trial along with a company called Moderna who they are trying. The first human clinical trial of a Kobe. Nineteen vaccine at the Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute in Seattle. The first dose was given last weekend they are going to be testing not the efficacy but just the safety and the response to of the body to this new vaccine in a forty-five young healthy volunteers who will receive different doses of the vaccine. Now this vaccine the reason they've got something so quickly and other groups are working on similar things Is that it's a an interesting type of vaccine called an M. Aren a vaccine M. R. A. Is Messenger aren A and in our cells messenger. Our innate is little bits of of Arnaiz that goes from the DNA out to the rival zooms to get translated into proteins. And the idea behind the Amarna vaccine is that we can plug the a little bit of viral. That is the antigen that we want our cells to recognize and to get a immune response against and then our own cells. Take that a and start treating all those like a virus itself taking that Mr Rene and making copies of IT SP- turning out more copies making little pro little viral proteins that then the body recognizes and says that's not okay and mounts immune response so it's a really interesting idea that it doesn't it. It just uses the machinery that viruses used to copy themselves already the interesting or I guess the the questionable part about this is that this particular type of 'em are a vaccine is as yet unproven. They have not done a lot of animal trials. I mean really win. Were they going to have done that? So I mean this is a brand new disease to to humanity. So they haven't been working on this for a couple of years. They've been working on it for a month or two and so these human tests that are going on are going on concurrently with other animal efficacy trials. So they've already shown that it that the mice respond and it does the. Marin vaccine doesn't make them sick and because it doesn't make like Deva they're gonNA test that aspect of it in people now. The next question is what kind of immune response? Is it going to elicit in people? We have absolutely no idea and that after this first part of the clinical trial happens. Then we'll have to do the actual efficacy trials and this and then get into manufacturer and so if this vaccine works if that's eighteen months from now but we started the first clinical trial. Which is something exciting. That's sticking at least right. Ticking there are and there are a bunch of groups working on different kinds of vaccines the Mr Rene idea is a an exciting one. There are other Marnie vaccines for different Diseases once you have an irony or a genome ick sequence new can target very is the fixed. Thank moments of RN. A deal to create a vaccine. It's something that can be done very quickly psychic. Basically as soon as you have the genome you can move forward on it which in in in the world of diseases and vaccines the faster. You can get something to market better very exciting. Yeah Blair I've been talking too much about Cova and all this stuff you wanna tell me something about about animals. Joey move into the. Let's talk about some animals show. Let's fun animals. We got some power possible hope on the vaccine front there for Kobe. But let's have some happy animal time the sign for Blair's animal smile did not want com giant. Langer was waiting for. Just say what you go. Oh I see Justin and then he disappeared anyway. Put second well perhaps quite apropos. I have a story from Tokyo. Metropolitan University about how Drosophila Fruit flies have given us the clues to potentially edit or remove traumatizing long term memories. A what though after a rough SILV- isolation you might be able to delete this route. Your memory begs what isolation? I don't remember anyway in believe it or not. The big key to this mystery lights. Let me explain. Yeah please do as I'm here based in them so as we know particularly shocking events traumatizing events can be consolidated into long term memory and through that process. New Proteins are synthesized and neuronal circuits in the brain are modified and so that's stored and so active maintenance is required to keep those changes in your long term memory banks and that protects them from the constant cellular rearrangement and renewal happening rain. The way that's happening we're not entirely sure we don't know exactly what the mechanism is behind that But knowing kind of the background of the basics of what's happening there with long term memory and also knowing that light impacts circadian rhythms mood cognition these researchers in Tokyo decided what about men memory and light in so four. The fruit flies them to be able to test us on them. They had to expose them to trauma now. The trauma that these fruit flies experienced was something called the courtship conditioning paradigm which is where male flies exposed to female flies. That have already made it. Which means they are not have it. And the mated females are so unreceptive that the males show stress and no longer attempt to court females so that is apparently a very traumatic experience for them So then they took these traumatized fruit flies. They took some. They kept them in the dark for two days and afterwards they showed no reluctance to make but those that they left on the normal day night cycle were still traumatize which means the environmental light somehow modified their attention of long term memory. They also made sure to adjust their experiment to make sure this was not due to lack of sleep so flies on diurnal cycle or slightly sleep-deprived to match the the flies sleeping habits in the dark so that it was the same so They were able to kind of make sure that that's exactly what was going on. Then they were able to actually look Molecular Lee. What's happening so they looked at the pigment dispersing factor pdf which is known to be expressed in response to light and they did find the PDF regulated the transcription of a protein called c. m. c. a. m. p. And signing a game. Yes and they know that that part of the brain in inside ax is implicated in memory. Learning so they think that this is the molecular mechanism through which light affects long term memory. So would it be that I mean does this? Will this have implications basically to do with circadian rhythms and or is it something more more basic than that like? I don't feel happy. I'm going to turn off the lights now. Impact emotion directly because it doesn't appear to be hormone related it doesn't appear to be receptor relate so it doesn't appear to have to do with actual mood and from what they can tell. It really looks like it is impacting their ability to remember the traumatic event. But that being said these are flies do not live as long as humans. They do not have complex memories as humans and their impulse in relation to that memory might not be as complex things that we might be trying to impact in the Human Brain. So this is not to say go. Sit in the dark for a few days and you'll forget something bad that happened to you but this is his tell you that doesn't work right. Yeah probably but it might mean that we have an idea of how to impact long term. Memory storage in the brain with light. It's possible that could be isolated and controlled for therapeutic use that humans a million years from. Now it's very far away but it. It is a very clear connection between exposure to light and memory. That's fascinating. I wonder. Yeah I wonder at some point if they will if there will be some aspect. I know that we're using light to control neurons. These days with Opted genetics Blue light so I wonder if there's some other aspects of neuronal control or You know for maybe not at the complex level of human behavior changing memories but in terms of research tactics to be able to study certain aspects of memory. Maybe that maybe it'll have some influence. I don't I don't know this is very interesting and then you start to wonder. Should I be studying outside and natural light? Will that helped me remember things so I have my computer monitor? And my screen pointed at me while I'm scrolling reading about Cova on twitter at ten o'clock at night when it should be dark which is a whole nother point which is a big part of your brain's memory system is knowing what to throw out and what to keep and we're bombarding ourselves with light that we shouldn't be. Are we keeping things? We're not supposed to be keep. This could move back and forth and all sorts of crazy way so just knowing that light end memory is connected is an important first step. So yeah I mean. We'RE WE'RE DIURNAL. Animals were animals impacted by Circadian Rhythms. All make sense to me but it all makes sense. Blair's layers tying it all together. I still need some help. But yes was they made instill flies and the Knicks them. Pretty cool thinking you're out there Amarna and them's I can see the words but that's where it ends well. If you don't know about that I'm guessing you might not know too much about temperature dependent sex determination which is one of my favorite things to talk. Yes so that when when we have babies they are born male or female based on whatever chromosome they get from their father because female is ex- ex- right so they always get an X. crumbs of but then they the the either get an X. or y. From their father in that makes them a girl or boy. Xxx Why right. But different animals have different ways of determining sex at birth and turtles for example The hotter it is the more females hatch in their nest temperature dependent sex determination which is why for example since climate change some sea turtle populations especially on the equator are becoming over eighty percent female which is causing some problems but this is a study not about sea turtles but about another type of animal that has temperature dependent sex determination. That's right it's Crocodilians. The animals that have been on this planet for a very very very very very very very long time. They have outlasted to extinctions to giant extinction the mass extinction in the Cretaceous period when that killed all the dinosaurs sixty six million years ago and another one in the east seen thirty three point nine million years ago that wiped out a lot of marine and other aquatic life. So these guys have figured out pretty well how to survive that being said they also have temperature dependent sex determination and the warmer the eggs? The the more likely the eggs will be male save the opposite differentiation of turtles but their ability to survive in the past and they're likely ability to survive. This giant event of Regina climate. Change is most likely due to their hands on parenting approach this study from University of Baths Miller Center for evolution and it all comes down to how they care for those eggs so remember the turtles that I talked about before. They lay their eggs in a usually a sandy nest And then they just kinda leave them in. The eggs are off on their own. But it With Crocodilians they actually will arrange a nest made out of dead fall and other things rotten vegetation and they will make the perfect nest and they're very good at your rating that to be the right temperature and they actually are not beholden to any geographical location. Either turtles usually go to the best The beach where they were laid where they were born and so They they're kind of tied to that location but crocodilians can lay their eggs. Wherever and their geographical location does not impact their Gabe ation temperatures. Which most likely is because they're so particular about creating that nest in a particular way so there temperature fluctuations for their eggs are actually way less than what the turtles experience so. They're being so deliberate about their nest. Making means that their populations are being impacted by climate change and their temperature dependent sex determination in the same way actually looked across twenty different species of Crocodilians across the world. They looked at the relationship between their latitude their body size the reproductive data like egg mass clutch size and incubation temperature. And they really found that. These temperatures were pretty consistent. So they're really good at what they do as parents. That's cool. I mean it explains how they've survived so long especially you know. Through mass extinctions that did have major climate climactic temperature changes. I mean they. They have a strategy that allows them to abide like the dude. Yeah and when when I talk to kids at work about Sea Turtles. They always get really upset about plastic pollution. Because that's always what you hear about right with Cedar hose is the is the plastic bags About but I try to explain the reason that plastic pollution is such. A problem for sea. Turtles is that I'm always reminded of that episode of the Simpsons. Would Mister Burns goes into the doctor and they try to show how he had all of the diseases and they were all trying to get through the door at the same time I ever. So it's like that. It's you have all these different environmental stressors. You have poaching of turtles you have. Climate change impacting their birth rates. The different sexes. And then you also have plastic pollution. This kind of triple whammy is really devastating population. So if you take out one of those. Their population has an opportunity to bounce back. And that's really why all these things individually and together are having impacts so the idea here is that by having not having to worry about climate. Change impacting the birth rate of the different sexes of Crocodilians. That is one less thing to worry about where they can potentially get through this crazy thing. We're going through now. And that's really what they want to look at. Is that the current rate of extinction as leading up to a mass extinction event larger than what killed the dinosaurs so anticipating that researchers want to know what is going to make to make it. And why what are their strategies? Yeah Yeah So. Their whole visit Crocodilians will once again survived through another mass extinction because of their amazing parenting skills that being said there is still human induced threats on Crocodilians. Collusion HABITAT LOSS flooding poaching. All these sorts of things are still important instill impactful. I don't want to reduce that in in the conversation except to say that this is one huge impact on population dynamics that they don't have to worry about. Yeah I mean I'm also thinking that they don't like to eat jellyfish so the crocodiles also aren't going after plastic bags out in the water but it is one less thing. Yeah that's cool. Yeah at Crocodilians. A lot of people don't realize are aside from being really cool and that's my week. WanNa keep them around to their actually keystone species. They're really important in their environments for a bunch of reasons their population control but most them also are slogging or out in the muck and when they do that they dig with those big muscular tails channels. That water can flow. Through so aquatic animals can live in those spaces. Water levels are low so they have huge. They're basically architects in their environments. On top of everything else pretty. It's really cool toll. Raynham thought I was thinking about dinosaur egg clutches and how their the way they put their eggs if that had anything to do with sex determination on their on their spacious as they developed her sorry No it's very possible absolutely. Yeah we don't know the answer to that. We also know though that there other things like ostriches. They will actually arrange their eggs very particularly so that the female egg is in the middle to get eaten or interesting. Wow there's other dynamics happening with how this is organized as well yes record nests versus dinosaur nests and now. I'm going to take us out of the animal corner of Crocodilians and climate change and into the world of Limb Trans Transplants. Because yes please. Yeah this is important in. Its soup interesting. Researchers publishing in scientists science advances this last week they used a method that is employed by tumor cells to trick the body of a transplant donor at the body of a transplant recipient mouse into accepting the limb of from a donor. So yet it's just fascinating the way that they've done it so they determined that there is a molecule that tumor cells use that is called. Cc L. Twenty two and C C l twenty two released by tumor cells and tricks regulatory t cells into basically recognizing the tumor cells as self and that they shouldn't be attacked. Basically saying look. I'm like you it's a it's a nice it's I dunno it's like it's a little a little of a fake mask to trick the body. Nothing to see here exactly. They're using the force and it's called twenty two results that you're looking for or they are the strongest looking yes so they synthetically created CC L. Twenty two they transplanted the limbs of Brown rats onto the bodies of WIGHT RATS. And then they gave all of the rats They gave the rats anti rejection drugs for the first twenty days and then gave them and injection of of the CC L. Twenty two in one of three doses. A low dose of medium does or a high dose then. They stopped the immunosuppressive drugs and waited to see what happens. They gave another dose of the CC. L. Twenty two at about forty one days and they found that the limbs that were in the group that got the medium dose of need this not a drug but the protein that was injected. The medium dose led to the donors. The limb lasted for over two hundred days with absolutely no rejection. After immunosuppressive drugs were stopped versus the low dose of the of the of the protein The limbs fell off after him were rejected very shortly after the immunosuppressive drugs stopped and also. Interestingly in the high dose group the limb was rejected at about sixty days so there was a sweet spot there in the amount of protein that the T. cells liked that the t cells recognize and then they wanted to. They wanted to really find out. Okay these limbs have on this recipient for awhile. What is the body recognizing and so then they transplanted. They did skin grafts from other naive mice. That had not been involved in this at all and skin grafts from the bodies of the Brown. The Brown mouse drought donors and the body rejected. The skin grafts from the the mice that they hadn't recognized itself and they accepted skin grafts from the the owner of the limb they had received. Yeah so the immune cells in the body started recognizing started. Started recognizing the cells in the limb as self and They they lasted for a very significant period of time. So they're calling this. They're calling them. Recruitment particles is the therapy that they are using. That seems to be very interesting. We don't know exactly how far this will go whether someone brought up the fact another researcher brought up the fact that in tissue from living donors the body responds to it differently than it does tissue from deceased donors so they don't know if there's going to be a difference in how the Seattle Twenty two works if they're looking at living versus deceased donation materials But at the same time this is a very promising avenue because if you can reduce the amount of immunosuppression that goes on in transplant recipients you're going to potentially improve their quality of life significantly But anyway it's very exciting. This is just the first study and who knows maybe down the way the immunosuppressive drugs. We'll just be in there for a little while and then you'll just have to get a regular a regular shot of of your C C l twenty two so that your body continues recognizing your transplanted face as your own could be more important things in life. Hey when my face off in the morning the glue it back on me and Nick Cage you gotTa do what you gotTa do. That's right that's right face off there Let's do a couple of quick stories but I I just want to let everyone know if you're interested in a twist shirt or mugger atom of twists merchandise. You can head to twist dot org and Click on that Zaza Link. That is where you can browse all sorts of wonderful goodies items. That are in our store. Quick Science news can humans detect magnetic fields pigeon. The answer the answer is yes but we don't know it though there's a new study out in a journal called E. Neuro which is available to the public are you can. You can read the whole study. Researchers set up a very elaborate system in which to test their in which to test their their question whether or not the brain itself whether neurological signals within the brain respond to a magnetic fields. They put people on a non magnetic chair on an isolated floor in a room with acoustic panels merit that was wrapped in a Faraday cage with an eating machine to measure their brain activity and they found that when they turned on magnetic fields in certain directions that corresponded to nodding the head or turning it from side to side That the brain the activation of the brain changed accordingly and it had very specific activation changes in response to the changes of the magnetic fields. However the people who were sitting there in the box wrapped in a fair Faraday Cage. They had no clue everybody. Everybody who came out said what magnetic field. I didn't notice anything. Nobody noticed anything but their brains did so what's going on. And why is it? Believed that the magnetic fields are a acting the electoral of the electric currents electrochemical current in the brain is. It's simply some kind of capacity give effect or is it that there are little magnetized particles in our brains that are responding as some kind of evolutionary holdover from the path what makes magnetic fields. Like everything right like this is how. That's how sharks figure out where animals are under the sand and stuff like that rate is electromagnetic fields. Will the earth has electromagnetic fields because of our the Dynamo in its center So there's that big magnetic field But then a live yeah. Living living meet makes one right so so. And that's what I'm wondering is if you rule around Electrical Wires Right. You can you. Can You hide? You've got to tell someone's like looking at you behind your back. That's the kind of thing wondering about is if this is an evolutionary thing to know where other living things are in relation to you. It's like a thing set as I know. That's a very far job but I'm just I'm feeling like since it is. Life isn't electromagnetic field that it could be a subconscious thing that our our bodies and our brains are just aware of because her bat mannerly pigeons tracking in the medical field. But I like. What's that sense organ that they have that we don't or sharks have What's the other one in like you know or or is it won miss digital things like maybe we used to be able to check demand field to some sense? But it has long since disappeared. Because we don't it's not our primary is their vision and hearing which override any of that sense. I don't know but suggesting that. Yeah it's very interesting. Apparently we can perceive them. So what does this mean? And what else do we need to learn right going on there and you know as we are in my last story for the night as we are in this berry anxiety inducing period of time in society of I think this particular study is particularly Apropos Parent based treatment as efficacious as cognitive behavioral therapy for childhood anxiety. Basically the study found that if your kid is anxious. It's just as good for parents to go to therapy to treat it as it is for the kids because they find that very often. Hey it's the parents who are perpetuating cycles. That induces anxiety in their children as an educator. I can also speak to you. Know modeling proper techniques around parents to try to you know encourage them to chain you know or try something new with the way that they respond to certain things that their child has so. I could see how this is similar. How if you're if you're modeling. How to respond to anxiety as a therapist to an adult that then they can kind of use that model to the child of your your child's anxious and then you get access from your child than you're just building on that like a wave away right so if you can model the calm. I would say they can pick up that com or Alexander bullet together Blair with your last quick story to hear. Oh you know. Just a legos. Live a long time especially in my house. Yes well if war where I step on them. Anniversary of Plymouth asked the question. We've all wanted to ask. How long does a Lego brick last in the ocean? They did this. I have some issues with the methodology but ultimately they measured the mass of individual bricks that they found on beaches and they use them In X Ray fluorescence spectrometer to figure out the age of the pieces based on the elements that were used at particular decades in the legs and then they used items. That were still in package. You have those Legos from the seventies and eighties. Still in their packages. It could be used for science To weigh them against these ones that they found on the beaches and they found that they think that Legos can last anywhere between a hundred and thirteen hundred years in the ocean. And that seems low to me. That's great it's hard plastic because there's a problem and then they're being micro plastic. They're just being. He goes in the osage. So my problem with that mainly being retired this forever but quick news. My main problem being that this is only a fifty year old. Lego that they're testing and degradation is not always linear. Sometimes it's asymptotically. Sometimes you know so how. How can you model this? Mathematically to know how long something's GonNa last when you're looking at the course of thirteen hundred years based on a fifty year aggregation at anyway legos. Last long time I will also throw out there. That legos are looking at making hemp or other plant based plastics should be released by twenty thirty so they are looking into this oil. Based yes so that I could degrade if it ended up in nature. I mean plastic is plastic when it's classic. Here's the Hornby. Yes potato based plastic and these things we know are better. So it's you know actually knows. They're the potato starches that are make that make plastic like products that are meant to biodegrade and and there is plastic that is made from soy from corn from oil from hemp. It it all gets turned into these polymers. That become plastic. It's just I think the big issue it's not what it turns into when it degrades because once it's plastic. It is the molecule that is used for that plastic based on the long chain Pollen Ulmer. That's in play. It's where it comes from. Is it coming from oil. Is it coming from soy is coming from hemp it? Where is it coming from? I think that is the bigger issue. I think there's yeah there's a few steps along the supply chain that our concerns about how it's being made and if there's byproducts but I- isn't there also a difference in the in potential inhibiting in when it gets into animals and things like that Hormone pathways and things like that that it can be an. I mean as far as I'm aware it's the if it's it's the it's the molecule. What is the molecule that you're that you're dealing with? What is I mean? Plastic is a very broad category What is the specific molecule? That lego needs to us to make its Legos so durable and can last for thirteen hundred years in the Ocean. The other side that it's also like how long it lasts. I mean if it was any plastic but it only lasted. Let's say hits water in it lasts a day. Hey and toy dolls. That'd be great in some ways. I mean unless it's releasing some other byproducts rate but how long it can last before deteriorates also think the video if everything if all the ocean water in dissolves no problem per se unless it was releasing some some other Byproduct within the plastic itself. Well what can be picked up in other ways but in terms of that micro-plastics issue and a little bit sticking men get into lungs and internalize as opposed to being flushed out or UM anyway legos. Long Time and then my last story is is less of late breaking news and more. Just I wanNA leave everyone with some good news while we're hearing all the bad news all day every day while we're stuck in our homes is actually from good news network Dot Org and they Compiled ten stories of good news relating to covert nineteen. The first we already talked about. Which is the vaccine. That was delivered. Volunteers in Seattle. That's underway to distilleries across. The United States are making their own free hand. Sample guys free. Three air pollution plummets in cities with high rates of quarantine. I saw today. Dolphins are in Venice right now. Which is crazy. Mechanical aren't in boats in the canals. So the dolphins are yeah four John. Johns Hopkins researcher says antibodies from covered Kobe. Payton's patients could help protect people at risk. We talked about before five south. Korean outbreak is abating as recovery's outnumber new infections. I think you're more stay in a row. Six China celebrates several milestones of recovery after temporary hospitals close and parks reopened seven. Australian researchers are to drugs as potential cures eight just more Social Fund Staff Uber Eats is supporting the restaurant industry by waving delivery fees for a hundred thousand restaurants livelihood to a lot of people out. There they're helping out with that nine Dutch and Canadian. Researchers are reporting additional breakthrough research on treating the virus and ten. You can Google ways that you can help people and businesses during the outright so while you're stuck at home if you're not working twelve hour days from home the of free time there's lots of things you can do from home to help though we've been a good news before you guys go and open up your browsers and see all the bad news. Now I'm going to do the Google search. I'm going I'm going to Google for good at least one a day. Sir Today am I gonNa end that. I'm opening up a new line of dinosaur style personal protection of women. There we go so that you can be entertained while you're in the hospital bad. Yes Oh we've come to the end of another show. I hope all of you are staying well and finding the positive linings in all of all of this. Thank you so much for listening. Hope you enjoyed the show did share it with friend time for some shoutouts Fata. Thank you for your help on the social media on show notes for the Great Hala Bread that you gave me this week. That was amazing Gourd. 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It's all in your head consigns this week in science this week in science at the end of the world so setting up shop. Got My banner unfurled it says the signing in. I'M GONNA Tell Advice. Joe Them off with a simple deep is the wave of my hand is comedy away. So lavery body what. I say scientific for all that. It's worth and broadcast my opinion of the UH good science and science this week in science science this week in science science this week in science I am. I've got one disclaimer. And it shouldn't be bad. What I say made represent your views what I've done calculations than I've got a plan if you listen to the science you may just to understand that would threaten be. We're trying to live this week and science is so everybody. Listen do everything we say. If you use methods data roll the die we may read the word of God. The sweet science and science this week in science and this week in science this week in science is science. Got a laundry list of items. 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S2 E4: Aurora
"The. Hello podcast. Patel is a sentimental young man. He's been searching for his missing classmate, Aurora Gershwin's across two seasons and two planets. And what does he found? Knock that win. Some girl had buried in a sketchbook. Now, Queen of the ingrates calling herself FANG leading dangerous gang of degenerates on the wrong side of MAs in a trailer park full of filched supplies hiding from. Fighting the very hand that feeds. If someone prefers to seek destruction over progress chaos over hope, then something needs to be done about that person. Under moss Mattel, makes that choice. Well, then let's hope it doesn't come to that. Alright. Alright. Stop pushing them to me. Farce, you can take your home at off now. It's pressurized inside the dome here. Let me help you. Aurora. Hey, do I look okay. Great know what's happening here. I thought Hubble. Oh, that's weet Mars. This is a lot to take care, but you have to believe me. I'm really happy to see you happier than you can imagine really. Inside the Martian Cam with the enemy or not the enemy Mars is the enemy Hymie enemy. I met the planet long even searching for you. Misty Morris, missed everybody. JP toothpick Jonas and caddy. But mostly you Mars, how did you become the leader of the shutout Mars? I'm going to hug you now. My people are staring. I'm going to stop hugging you now. Okay. Did you get my messages that, hey, Aurora Mars stuff? Well, yeah, I got all of them. I mean, I've heard. So many, you're very. Expressive. I hope you have a big data plam respond. It would have been nice to hear from you. I feel like we're losing focus here. Aurora. I brought you Pruitt's golden boy. What are we gonna do with them? Axel, you'd understand Mars Patel is the most loyal person I've ever known this guy, sacrificed everything defined me saying this. And he did it all for me because at the end of the day, Morris Patel would do anything. Right Mars, yeah, guess see, puts why? No, he's going to help us bring down over Pruitt this whole stinking colony. Oh, great. It what's going on. We lost power and someone's got to get the generator backup and running. Probably just needs a hug. Hey, watch it. What are you going to do to me Loverboy hug it out. Merce walk with me. We're going to lava tube. Don't worry. I don't think the well can still active. Okay. Download time. I wanna know everything about everyone. I mean, I trained with Jonas right before the set me up here, but how's everyone else doing like? How did you get Jay Puteh swim at hundred. Goody two shoes. Caddy impersonate the principal and the to really go to the dance with epoch. Oh, I mean epica even happen. Yeah, all of that feels of lifetime ago. It's not that scary. Right? Just like being on the Cape. Sure. A nice friendly cave. It's better than leaving the generator above ground. One gnarly dust storm comes along and poof, no generator than it's freezing freezing time. Well, you don't have to worry for long. And why is that? Because I'm taking you back to the colony. Take me back Mars. I would never go back. But Oliver Pruitt said, there was an incident and there's still believing Oliver Pruitt after all the lies, he told he didn't. Okay. I suppose he stretched the truth a little what's wrong with you? Did you smack your head on the landing? How can you possibly defend him? Who should be furious at him? Believe me, I was furious. I will so upset when Jonas missing when you went missing. And to London. Great. Oliver prude was behind it. I wanted to shout to the world what a jerk. He was, I even declared Warren olive uproot. Are you to. How many likes did you get? Not as much as the surfing. Hamster, video Aurora. What if earth really is in trouble? What if we are the only hope, here's a generator, the whole this flashlight, sore all classes. Wait Tonia m- how did you get your hands on? Plutonium I stole at are out of the colony than axel did his axle thing and made a generator, but it's plutonium goals on nuclear while we're fixing it, whatever. It's usually just loose arbitrary on the bottom. What do you mean? Just kidding. We did it. You did it whatever. We were at together. Right? Just like the old time. We should get out of here before the gets us. So this is the cafeteria such as it is. Sometimes we have a lot to eat sometimes not so much everyone's staring at me. It's cool with me. So you're the mysterious FANG the Martian leader had Marsha or we don't do titles here Mars, but yeah, I had to keep it on the down low. So I call myself fading after the cat I had when I was five, it sounded scary thought you'd figure it out while at tiny spent. My house has should have Melissa dissappointed. I mean itself that I didn't remember the you out Mars all of this. Yes and no, I don't know. It just doesn't seem like you. This place is changed. We, you know why prudes sent me here. You Mars. He used meat alert you what he knew that you had a crush on me would chase me to the ends of the earth, and then some interiew are. Pretty crazy plan for just one kid. I guess you really special to him. I thought I was special too. I mean, you should see how I'm able to draw here. Oh, and I can pretty much convince anyone of anything. Pruitt doesn't care not anymore. So do you get it now? Do you understand why it have to get off this horrible planet? I have no purpose here, especially now that your here. Holy wanna do is go home. That's what all the martians one. We just wanna go home. We can't do it by ourselves. I wanna help Aurora. I wish I could have done something to protect you. Like I just caddy in the elders. You can do something for me Mars. If you're willing to be brave, we need access to the emergency shuttle colony the life. Both we take over the space station commandeer one of the Pruitt prep ships returning back to earth, grab the rest of the martians and get out of here. Say something cow, my supposed to steal Rocketship Dir Mars potato. You always have a plan. Seriously. Now, what is that home? It's everyone you know what to do. We got a Jim. We've been sound probably something to do with your boyfriend here. Axel, no, you wanna hit me out. So go ahead. Well, well, well, look what we found on you. They're putting trackers right on your body. Now I've got added on guess we solve the big mystery. Riding with me Patel. Get in the trunk. Now, now. We'll. Coming in closer Orion in a northeast direction. Mike franchise. Chew fast when to tip. Doubt by the gaff Julia could just stick with the coordinates for awhile, right? This Mars kid is killing me, killing me. I got better things to do than my roommate around the planet when he can't follow simple rules. You know, they have a word for people like this twelve year old. When I was twelve. I landed a shuttle on the edge of a cliff with half my thrusters out then why you act here. You could have any number of people to look for Maas. That's a very good question. Headbutts. What does it even seeing this kid? I'm the one who does all the heavy lifting around here, huge jealous jealous of butterfly. I'm fifteen and I fly spaceships for a living. How could I be jealous of the guy who shovels tar grade. What's here according to our radar malls Patel is he invisible now to my knowledge, stay here, check it out else. Would I go? You'll helmet to Ryan. Have checked the track and beacon out the window. I'll be somewhere real comfy. Driving Coty, FARs chew sleep recording just for Laura, but she's in the Rover and they stuck me in the truck. I don't even know where start for all. I know this might be my last message anyone ever. Caddie won't to no matter what happens here. I'm glad I said you guys away. The only thing that's getting these right douse knowing than you JP choose pick and Jonas are safe. Coty, I just hope you're happy doing all your catty things. Now you great life armers. So this is goodbye for whatever reason any find my phone and play these messages for you. I just want you to know. The thing I always say. Bars. Out. Out how Morris get out of the trunk, a must you want to sleep in their tonight. Unluck would die Mars? No. You were in there because accident what you to run accident. He's just get a little frustrated because the really needs your help and you're not giving it, but I'm sure he'll get over. I see. Yachts, pretty hard on. Excellent. Always live like this with no real home always packing up and going. He's not coping very well. Sometimes he yell slang said he doesn't mean old lock someone up in a trunk. I wasn't sure what to do. Our were talking about axl my best friend Mars I am. I mean, what else would you call someone who's always there for you? We just wanna go home Mars to see the people we care about. You can understand that right. I guess you're talking about catty right now. Oh, I might have heard you leaving a message for her. No, I I missed them all JP. Toothpick Jonas by mom must be wreck. Would you want to call her? Are you joking here? It's a Satphone. We collected it on a raid axle connected it to a chain of satellites that reach although I home, but if you can call earth, why don't you use this all the time to call for help? We've tried. No one on earth ever believes us or if they do, they suddenly go missing. I'd be careful what you say. The mall. pick up. Hello, mom, it's it's Mars. Your mom? It's really me. How I best you listened to. Son's doing caddying JP too thick and Jonas. Have you seen them. Better? Why would I know better. Really. Are they. I assume so. My friends. Best robot ever dot com. From PR ex.
An InSight Update
"Hi I'm calling your host for the good news podcast and I'm neil the other host the good news. Podcast is your source for Good News Fun Stories Auditory Delight and Sonic Joy. We're bringing you all of this goodness from beautiful downtown Chicago Attorney. Keep my finger on the pulse of the Mars Rovers situation if story about Mars and the robots. That are working. There comes up. I'm for sure reading it so dear listeners. Imagine my delight when I found out. What insight has been up to a brief insight? Recap about a year and a half ago inside landed on Mars and since then has been doing some extremely neat science insight was the first lander. Send the sound of Martian wind back to Earth around the same time inside placed a size monitor on the surface to check on possible Mars quakes and about a year ago it registered its first one since February of last year inside has been trying to drill down into the ground on Mars to take some temperature readings. It being something totally new there have been some unexpected issues. Turns OUT THE SOIL? Mars is less sandy and much more clumpy than anyone knew. I guess that sort of comes with the territory when you're doing interplanetary science fast forward just this past week. The digging probe stuck and the NASA folks are at their last resort plan. C. Plan C. As you probably are assuming pretty much involves just whacking it to see if it works. I'm imagining this. Is the Mars equivalent of blowing in an intendo cartridge to see if that fixes it? Unlike my FEC xanadu cartridge from the early ninety s the NASA version worked. They told insight to whack probe with a shovel. And they're once again making progress digging into the clumpy Martian earth or soil. I guess just goes to show you if you have a problem that some of the brightest minds can't fix over the course of a year maybe dry. Just bopping it with a shovel. Thanks for listening. Do you have good news? Incredible or maybe. WanNa tell us a joke or idea. Excellent email us at. Hello at the good news podcasts. Dot FM or. Leave us a voicemail at seven seven three two one seven zero one five six. You can also tweet us at the Good News Pot and follow us on instagram too. And if you love the good news podcasts. Think about supporting us on our patron page must have our music is by Partington bear.
S2 E6: Pod Cast
"She's inside this fun. This is St. Pete back there. Hurry make these things open Morris here. This a lot of the top. Excite initiated reserve power, transferred to car, fifteen lighting, one hundred percent. Caddy kitties, your. Not what you. Catty. It's me. Marce. I can't see everything so blurry. I'm here. I'm right here next to you. I'm provin their hand. Do you feel me. I do. I do. I see shadows. Where to thick and JP they're here is still sleeping. I need to get out of this pod quite low, helping. You're gonna fall. I've got you legs kind of wobbly, hey, onto me. How long have you been in there? I don't know. We were put into the pods right after we left you prep. He sleep for six months, six months. My eyes are getting clearer. Mars is similar with you. It's me Cathy. Is that you. Surprise. You're here Mars you found her? I did and we will lots tell you, but how are you here? Why are you here? After we said goodbye and Mr. q. let us out. He gave us the choice to come along anyway, but only we got the sleep pots. He said there wasn't enough. Few awake. JP I feel like a swallow thousand sweaters page AP Aurora, rural, we've got you. Great. Does that mean we can turn around and go. Are we there yet? Are we on Mars? Not exactly. Toothpick we've come to help you save Aurora. I'm here pick. Oh, nice to see. You Aurora are you've got a girlfriend now? I do. It's a long distance relationship. Good boy Drobny. Did you sleep? Well, toothpick insisted on bringing his Petrona long for the ride. I don't know that, but I'm getting. Guys, whereas Jonas, he was to injure to make the trip, but he's going to be okay. Mr. q. told Jonas, he could head up the gaming complex uproot prep who's pretty stoked, Mars is semi blurry is, or do you not seem that happy to see us. You're not supposed to be too thick. None of you supposed to be here? Well, we are here because proline again. He promised. You could go home back to your family. Live a nice safe life. We didn't want to leave you. We're supposed to be a team Moore's right, pick. It's not safe here. That's why the martians of trying to hold for months, not alien martians. That's just what they call themselves Auras kind of the boss. They call her FANG. Oh, like your one tooth cat. Yeah. We have to find a way to get you all back home. Mars utilize to make decisions for a semi more. That's not what I was doing. It's exactly what you did. You send us away. I just wanted what was best for you. What you thought was best for us, you're going to attack Mars for trying to keep you safe humidity, cute sacrifice for all of you. We didn't ask for it Aurora. So why you should be grateful that he spared you Kenny. A new coming here is a bad idea. I personally like to see the planet Mars hate to break too, but it's a jar dust fall were not meant to live there. I promised epic. I bring her Marshall. She probably turned into a pair of shoes. I don't think you'll realize what a mistake you made coming here. Why aren't you thinking Mars? You should talk about being thankful? Aurora? Mars give up his whole life to look for you. We all did pain crate full that Mars is here with me. He's going to help us get home. I'm going to get back in the pot is really category. Says he detects account down countdown. I don't know how triggered, but we've fifteen minutes twenty seconds until the space station self-destructs. After two Aurora, I'm in the belly of the beast close to the break. I hear something talking. So on here. Got. Hello. Pruitt is that you Bruin open the door computer override bridge authorisation actual delta for eighty three. Door through it coming in its axles. Remember me. Secret in human history over courting. What is this transmission equipment to read. Down cast transmission podcasts. I wasn't planning to take this rustic steps. Steps. Podcasts transmission terminated. Listening to this podcast. It's me daisies all the way up here on the red planet that stay with the why case. You forgot. Maybe you're in the backseat of your parents card this chilling out in your with your ear buds. You must think that's pretty great, but you know what? That's not so great. In fact, that's not great at all. Catch just normal. Apple on special. You're not on special. Are you? Of course, not the kind of kid who wants to make a difference in the can you crave center and rooms bigger than the biggest streams on her a kid bike me days if you want to join me and my friends and Oliver proves call me good uproot prep dot com today. Stars. Lancia lars. Sicklets fishy. On how long do we have big. Thirteen minutes now would be a good time for a plan Mars. I didn't come all this way to bite fifteen minutes after we wake up, how did you get here from the planet? We took this little ship fairly holds for kids. Auroras friend. Axel was the pilot that puts us to over. Can we squeeze JP caddy? And I haven't had a meal in six months. Our collective mass is decided they reduced leaving year. The space station is where they docked ships from earth. It's our only chance of getting home. We have to figure out how to stop the countdown. There isn't time Aurora. I'm not going back axle where. Do computer self destruct access denied over. You have to come with us a replace. I know you've had a hard time, but you have to listen to mar. Do that catty. Don't try to get my head. You don't understand. I can't go back tomorrow. I won't go back. Trone says we have precisely eight minutes and fifteen seconds. Four, please take my hand. Let's go. It's not worth dying for this was always a one way trip for me. Mars you said you trust me. I ask you to do it one more time. We'll call the colony. Let them know we're going to need someone to come and get us when for out there. Drobny says the stations radio's off line. We can't call anyone. Whoa. Is this a party? Axel, where have you been? You know, this is about to blow right axle. What's in the backpack? It's proved communication equipment at until we fall into the lifeboat. Now. Out j. p. guards, I never. Not new. Species of his ear, baby cuddle level. Sequence never been able to call the hat. We have to make some room, hey, you the names j. p. okay, JP you strong start pulling everything out of the lifeboat that I can do. Who are you? Can this is axle. He supply, what are you saying? Rip everything out. Seats control consul anything on the inside, but then be floating out there better than dead. We just have to hope that someone comes to rescue us before we drift off into deep space. So we just start ripping up the ship. That's the idea JP. If I catch journey to the outside of the ship, this roster can help give us minimal control. The professor appoint Brava drone. We second, but this this is my, what is it Mars? This can't be possible. This was my favorite toy approved industry rocket. And you know, this is yours how JP look at the side nail polish, my mom helping name it. The mono one, you're real neymars vote, hurry up toss, doing much. Is it some kind of message or clue? Pruitt's messing with your head? It's a trick. Everything does trim except said he space station to self destruct recurrently three minutes everyone into the ship Mars. Let's go, but renew one. This means something it's go time. Camman pressure suits on. You could hold off and put your helmets on for now. Actually you're taking the deal with. You might just save our lives every wanted. Every. Did I closing the door. Get clear over station. As soon as we separate without a corporal, there's only two ways to dock fast and faster. She release in ten seconds going talk. Whistling. My stopped moving Raj AP hold on one or two. Look down there. It's marce. Wow. That looks way more than I thought it's beautiful from appear to countdowns over. Decision didn't. Best robot ever dot com.
NASA Mars Mission Updates
"Hey, space news pod listeners if you wanna show your opinions give feedback or tell me what you're thinking said me, a voice message voice messages, earn easy way for you to send me audio the might end up in a future episode of the space news, pod voice messages are the latest feature from anchor the platform, I used to make this podcast if you have an idea for an episode if you want me to cover something, you can send me a voice message right now from wherever you're listening, just tap. The Lincoln my show notes. And I can't wait to hear from you to order listening to the space news pod. So that means you like podcasts and you probably like music too. So on Spotify, you can listen to all of those things, all your podcasts, and all of your music in one place in, you don't need a premium account. They have a huge catalog of podcasts on every topic including space news pod. You can follow your favorite podcast. He never miss episodes. Download episodes. Listen to off line and easily share what you're listening to with your friends with Spotify integrations with. Social media platforms like Instagram. So just searched for space news pod on the Spotify app. Browse podcasts in the your library tab and follow me. So you never miss an episode of space news. Pot Spotify, the world's leading music, streaming service in now it can be your go-to for podcasts too. Hello. And welcome back to the space news pod. A daily podcast for space science in tech. My name is will Walden and today on this episode, I'm going to be talking about Nasr's future Mars missions, and current Mars missions like the Mars reconnaissance orbiter. But I, I wanna tell you about what's going to be happening on Monday. I did my first interview with somebody in that somebody is Dr David warm flash on Twitter. You can check him out at cosmic evolution. He's a he's a writer. He's an author. He's a doctor and we talk about his new book. It's called moon an illustrated history from ancient myths to the colonies of tomorrow. But we don't just talk about the moon. We talk about upcoming Mars missions, a little bit of space, politics, and some other stuff in there, too. But there's a lot of. About the moon. So if you're interested in that mixture to listen on Monday to the episode with Dr David warm flesh, and I'll be posting the full video interview on our YouTube channel YouTube dot com slash space news pod. So I got a news alert from NASA at JPL the Jet Propulsion Laboratory about their new Mars twenty twenty Rover updates in the a picture of the ship of the craft is going to be taking the Rover to Mars the ship. It's about the size of let's just say, like a I don't know, seven to eight person hot tub. If that makes sense where you're not cramped, like you have a lot of room, it's like a like a like a larger hot tub. It suspended by cables, there's a cruise stage which will power guide, the March twenty twenty spacecraft during its seventh month seven month trip to Mars. And below that there's an arrow shell which will protect the vehicle during cruise as well as during the crazy fire descent into the Martian atmosphere. In. You might remember something like the descent from curiosity, which was this like a seven minute, descent, where it's fiery, it's really really hot in it. Looks like the craft is gonna burn up in the atmosphere, but survives in, then we have great science going on Mars. But inside of that shell. There is a rocket powered descent stage and it has a Rover in there, too. But right now it's just a, a standing Rover for the time being until they actually lost the mission because they don't want to put the actual Rover in there did want a cocoon it up right now. They want to wait until the actual mission. They'll put it in and then the flight up to Mars in the actual Rover that's got to be going to Mars is getting its final assembly and GPL's high bay one cleanroom right now. So it's not complete. That's what Stanton is there just to make sure everything fits for when the actual Rover is done goes in the show, they send it off. And it says here that the Mars twenty twenty spacecraft was tested in the twenty five foot wide eighty foot tall, which is eight meter by twenty six meter chamber in the same configuration, it will begin while flying through interplanetary space, the twenty twenty Rover carries an entirely new suite of instruments, including a sample caching system. The. Will collect samples of Mars for return to earth on subsequent missions, this mission will launch from Cape Canaveral air force station in Florida in July of twenty twenty in landed Jezero creator on February. Eighteenth of twenty twenty one. So if all goes, well will probably start getting some science from this thing in March of twenty twenty one and want to get back from this break. I'm gonna talk about Marzieh's m aro, which is the Mars reconnaissance orbiter and held many trips. It made around the red planet. It's a crazy number. So get ready. Hi everyone. I would've let you know about inker dot FM. It's where I host by podcast in, I find that it's the easiest place to do that. And it gives you everything that you need in one place, for free, which you can start. Podcasting from your phone, or from your computer. You don't need special crazy equipment to start doing it. You can talk into your phone video, editing equipment that costs thousands of dollars to start a podcast, you can do it from anywhere in when you're done, recording your episode anchored at FM will distribute it. So it can be hard everywhere on Spotify. Apple podcast Google podcasts. Stitcher, every place that podcasts can be heard, and you can make money with your podcast. It's pretty simple. There's no minimum listenership to start making money with anchor. So if you wanna make a little bit of money while having a cool podcast, while download the ANC rep or go to anchor up FM to get started. So Mars recounts, orbiter collects daily science about the planet surface at atmosphere, including detailed views with its high resolution image science experiment. Camber the high rise and it's powerful enough to see surface features the size of a dinner room table from one hundred eighty six miles above the surface in just a -ccomplish a really crazy milestone, it has done sixty thousand loops around Mars and on average, the M R O takes a hundred and twelve minutes to circle Mars in goes about two miles per second. That's three point four kilometers per second. It goes really, really fast. And it's not just a hot rod. It doesn't just go fast around Mars. It collects daily weather data it probes the subsurface for ice and the. This data that they get from this reconnaissance orbiter. Well, they can use that data for designing future missions that will take humans to the surface of the red planet in the future, and it doesn't just do its own science. It works as a relay. So it's a network of relays the being data back to earth from Nastase Mars. Rovers Landers, and later this month, the MRI will hit another milestone, it will have relayed one tear bit of data mainly. From Mars is curiosity Rover. So if you've ever seen, you know, sell fees from curiosity, or, you know, the surface of Mars, they have really great photos, Anastas website in on the social media channels, while the empire, oh, probably helped with that helped relay those images back to earth. Dan, Johnston in Nasr's JPL in Pasadena, California. He's the project manager over there. He said, MRI has given scientists in the. Public new perspective of Mars. We've also supported Nastase fleet of Mars surface missions. A loving them to send their images and discoveries back to scientists on earth. And also during landings of crafts on Mars, while the MRI takes pictures. It'll take pictures of these landings. It'll take pictures of the lending sites before they actually get there to make sure that nothing has changed, and make sure that everything is okay. And you know, and then they make decisions based on the photos from R O, and other orbiters. And also, not just before the landing though, make sure that the Lander got their properly in the make sure they'll take photos of the, of the Landers, and make sure that, you know, they didn't collide with the surface because instruments on the lenders could be wrong. You know, there could be some, some damage to some of the instruments. It does happen. And those instruments could be wrecked on their way, you know when they hit the surface. So am I rose there to take photos of Landers? Make sure they got there in one piece. Make sure that everything's good. Make sure that the parachute didn't deploy over the actual Lander in ruin all of the science. So I'm arose there for numerous reasons and they just got sixty thousand laps around Mars. So I wanna say thank you to everyone who subscribe to this podcast if you haven't subscribed yet. Police hit the subscribe button, if you'd like space science in tech, because it happens every single day on the space news pod. Also, thank you to patriot patrons patriot dot com slash space news podcast. And also, thank you for taking the time out of your day to spend it here with me on the space news pod. I'm your host will Walden and I will see you soon.
Powered Flight on Mars
"Destined to become the first aircraft to attempt powered flight on another planet. Nasr's Mars helicopter has officially received a new name. This is innovation. Now, bringing you stories behind the ideas that shape our future, the Nissan Ru Pommie, a high school junior from Alabama didn't dream the name she submitted for the Mars rover contest would instead be selected to name the Mars helicopter but NASA Administrator Jim. Breitenstein thought ingenuity was the perfect name for this part of our next exciting mission to Mars as a technology demonstration. Ingenuity is a high risk high reward experiment. The helicopter will ride to Mars attached to the belly of the perseverance rover for several months following the rover's landing in. Will. Remain encapsulated in a protective cover and win. The timing is right. The helicopter will be deployed. If the four pound solar-powered Craft survives the cold Martian nights during its preflight check out. The NASA team will proceed with operations during its thirty Martian Day flight test window. The small craft will have a chance to prove that with a little ingenuity powered flight can be achieved on Mars for innovation. Now, I'm Jennifer poet innovation now is produced by the National Institute of Aerospace Through collaboration with NASA.
NASA in Silicon Valley Live Is There Life on Mars?
"Hey everybody buddy welcome back to NASA in Silicon Valley live. I'm your host Abby Taber and if this is your first time joining us NASA and Silicon Valley live is a convert conversational show show out of NASA's Research Center and this is where we talk about all the nerdy NASA news you need to know about so today I have with me my lovely co host Alison. Hi Hi everyone. I am your co host Alison if you didn't know we are simultaneously live on twitch Youtube facebook and periscope scope but if you want to participate in the chat and ask our guests questions there's only one place you can do that and that's at. WWW dot twitch dot TV slash NASA. Yes and I'm sure you'RE GONNA WANNA ask questions because today we are dealing with one of life's biggest questions seriously we're going to talk about. Are we alone in the universe I yeah this is such a great topic. I'm sure everyone will agree and today. We have some really amazing guests with us to talk about it. Yeah Hi hi everyone one I'm all fun so the Villa Nasser Biology's here at NASA Ames and I search for life on other planets. I'm Michael Furlong robot assist here at Ames and I I build intelligent robots to explore other worlds. Oh cool so abby before we get into the show. How `Bout we remind our audience about our cool clock right year. Yes exactly right so this right here. This beautiful thing is our moon countdown clock. That's because five years from now in twenty twenty four we are planning to send humans to the moon that's part of our Artemis Programme and this clock counting down the days hours minutes and seconds until we send the next man and the first woman to walk on the Moon South South Pole so we will talk about that later in the show but if you WANNA learn more you can always go to. WWW DOT NASA dot gov slash artists all right so let's get right right to it. Is there life beyond earth well short answer with no and that's the reason why we have to search all right but I I will say this. The more we explore that Luke's that the odds are looking better and better today. We might find something out there they are. I'm glad to hear that I think about it thirty thirty years ago. What did we know about other planets and the possibility of life out there. We knew there was one planet that is inhabited the earth. There was another planet Mars that maybe yes he asked maybe no we didn't we we're not really sure and that was the extent of it fast forward thirty years later we know that there are moons our in the in the system around. Jupiter insider did have subsurface oceans of liquid water but yeah and we know that there are millions of planets around other stars some of them the right distance from their son that liquid water could be stable on the surface okay so these look like very promising places to look into concerns for life more and more opportunities places. We might find something the more are we learn the better he gets outstanding at which brings the question like what is life. How do we even define it well. It's it's a complex where it's going to get one that fundamentalists chemistry right why would Beta made of chemistry molecules interacting reacting at doing things that allow those systems to survive and so when we searched for live we're we're essentially looking for that type of chemistry ideally because it's easier to find chemistry very similar to us but obviously there's chances whatever life chemistries out there might be very different your perspective as a robot assist on this Michael. It's it's it's a hard problem to begin with but especially for sending robots out. They're going to be doing expiration for us. Instead of having humans looking at all the data coming back actually I tried to quantify so a computer can say yes. This is life is is a massive challenge in of itself and I think it's fair to say we don't really have a good good way to do that just yet no no and if the question is already difficult imagined trying to answer the questions with Roberts with surrogate not in humans doing the actual experiments so that's the real challenge like you say. You have to teach a machine to do you really do. You have to do these things that you can sort of instinctively instinctively do but it's hard for you to write down. Yeah Yeah Yeah Fascinating. Where would you go to look for life if you were going to go out there and really place your bets on the best place to look to one place. Mars is still top of my list yeah and the reason is because Mars is close enough to the earth that we can and actually studied repeatedly we we've been sending probes to Mars almost continuously for the past twenty years and that's that's that's given as a very good perspective. Give an idea of how the planet is today and how it was in the past good enough that we know now that Mars in the many different aspects is very similar to the earth. It's very it's a very familiar only a place mountains volcanoes meteorite impacts sediments rocks that are composed of the same types of minerals that rags on earth and so it looks like at some point the conditions for life to Mars might have existed and if if that was the case those forms of life might have been similar to US similar similar enough that we might recognize okay something earth life's not something completely alien wouldn't we wouldn't be able to recognize even if it was staring as interface okay go to. Mars is a good candidate for those reasons. Wow there's some comments about that already. Kids mt take me to Meyers. Please hubs five five five. I hope there is human life on Mars in my lifetime so I the robots are going to go there is there is a live on Mars that we know off because obviously every every means it goes to Mars carries a tiny bit of bio burden in it. Okay technically quickly technically. What do you think the odds are of actually finding life on Mars. I mean honestly like we've we've taken samples now and so far we haven't found definitive tentative proof of life and so the guys don't great but that's because it's a very big planet and we're sort of sifting through it like grams at a time but ah so that's different though than asking what's the probability that there is or was life there to be found yeah. That's a good point and that it's important to recognize that when you look at Mars and the history of Mars is really a tale of two different planets really Mars today's very extreme Byron a lot of people think thing that it it cannot sustain life at least not near the surface but the more we learn them on Mars. It tells us that way back in the was a very different environment where water was flowing surveys. were there were lakes. Maybe sees even the oceans not too dissimilar to legs and season rivers on earth and so conditions wins in the past might have been a lot better for life and so it is these dual history of Mars to a perspective of Mars that we need to consider when we think think about live on Mars early life in a in a friendly environment or more recent live in a very friendly environment so yes if it was more friendlier in the past and life did emerge maybe we would find fossil evidence from the fossil evidence of it and other another possibility is that when conditions on the surface became extreme that live retreated to other places. Maybe deeper in the planet under and it's still trying to survive in those in those environments. That's very exciting. That is exciting. Taste really bad teeth asks. Is there enough sunlight reaching Mars in order for to sustain healthy plant life or we have to rely on artificial growing process seats but when it comes to sunlight that that's not a problem. That's not a limiting factor. there are in fact micro organisms on earth. They can't survive hundreds of meters deep in the ocean. Yeah we've Bay tiny amounts of flight a lot less than what riches Mars so sunlight not an issue. We need to worry about things like temperature ingratiation. There's an toxic elements in the ground for those plans to grow but sunlight those got enough sun yeah one more question from the from the from the chat here era twitch or ask what is life. Does it have to be. Does it have to have a nervous system or brain or both well. I don't think so some of them have a brain and and we can be called alive most of the history of life on earth there were no brains and nervous systems microbial life single celled microorganisms and in fact. Thank you for everything. The example of life on earth is telling us is that being a single cell organism with our brain and the nervous system might be a good thing because they've been around for billions of years. Oh yeah brains brains and nervous systems have been around for a lot less time and so yeah definitely not not required. It makes good good news. Maybe the microbes though right dismiss those microbes might be able to survive right all right so should we talk talk about an early NASA experiment in life detection biking yeah really cool mission to robots robots sent a symptom marriage they were the first actually US vehicles to land on the surface there and there was about forty odd years ago in the nineteen seventies and they were these larger structures that landed there and they took pictures of the surface and they tried to collect soil samples and did some really interesting biological experiments there I think we have a photo of the Viking Lander. Let's get a look at that biking Linda there. It is so you can see the lander and there's a human in there to give you a sense of scale and what he's holding up is the arm that extends out of the Viking Lander and scooped up the soil that was then brought back into the into the vehicle to be the experimented on Oh man we have another photo to maybe of the of on Mars Viking took the first images on the surface of Mars they'd setting it's in this one but things like this and look how red it is spectacular to see in nineteen seventies so that's the arm that was collecting soil grabbing the soya. I haven't seen there okay and then what do with that that was part of an experiment that was part of a very cool experiment. The first experiment to search live on another planet. That's no more and no less. They can beat a lot of cool stuff. It took a lot of pictures it showed US Mars applause for the first time but the biological experiments which really made the mission truly exciting and there were biological experiments. One of them is particularly interesting was called the labeled release experiment label. The release released experiment. That was an experiment the the the idea for the experiment was the the arm with the school with collect some with scoop some dirt from the ground and put it in a container and then at a solution which was called a chicken soup chicken chicken soup and chicken soup these an example of one of the vials that was made eight in one thousand nine hundred eighty four nine hundred seventy four June July third nineteen seventy four and these vintage chicken soup. There's there's no race their new potatoes. It's perfectly clear it's chicken soup for microbes. Chris Chris are and so the idea is that think about it if you are if you're in the cold if you have a cold or your cold and you're starving and you're dehydrated and you're miserable at home. What what would what's the best thing you can have warm cup of Jinx at the time was the microorganisms Mars. If they were present in the soil they will be hydrated. No water very cold at very low temperatures and so two to help them come back alive and actually be able to detect them. We would add this chicken soup. Who would have something to feed on and then we would be able to measure the gases that are produced as they eat chicken soup so that's what the experiment that's what the experiment did at the chicken soup to the soil and then sniff the gases that would come out of the microbes chewing on the molecules like sugars and amino acids? All the yummy stuff drafted microbes tweet was added with the chicken soup all right. You're looking at traces of them. Digest in our first evidence of life on another upon it could have been microbial poop microbial poop something does yes. That's very it was really interesting and he was very inconclusive. The observation he was a very interesting observation. One when the chicken soup was added to this there was a chemical reaction almost immediately and gases were released and the same of gases that you would expect microbes to produce. They were present that was interesting and exciting. The problem was that the rate at which those guys were released was way too fast almost instantaneous. Oh view expected microbes to be president you should. They should take time to come out. Come back up alive and either things and then eventually released those guys so that was on the other thing is that part of the experiment was to scoop out another sample of soil and heated up to very high temperatures to kill everything that might even living there and then add the chicken soup. If the reaction action original reaction was due to biology. We shouldn't see a reaction in the second case because everybody was that and what happened was quite the opposite they added the chicken soup to the debt sample and and there was a reaction similar to the first one suggesting that whatever was causing the reaction was not a micro. She must've been crazy. You sent your experiment fierman on a rover to Mars and it gets there and it doesn't thing and you're not sure you're not sure maybe they didn't like the soup. Maybe that's definitely the the the the experiment was very interesting very inconclusive right so then what well it was clear from biking maybe our thinking about searching for life at that time was a bit naive because we really didn't know much about Mars until Viking Wentworth snow. Our inside is always twenty twenty so with what we know now we might think it wasn't a at the time he was probably a very smart thing to do. We haven't been there yet. We haven't been there yet so but what followed up after Viking was a realization that when next time we searched for we might want to know in advance a bit more about the planet what conditions are there and what the history of the planet and so a lot of the follow up missions tried to bridge that gap that knowledge gap understand what happened to Mars over the course of history how it became the extremely dry extremely cold planet than it is today and maybe try to understand fly was present at some point whether it could still be there. Maybe maybe another places or maybe the chances of life surviving throughout Mars. He's three were reminds zero yeah. How'd you go from oceans to desert desert correctly correctly and how this life react to that yeah so we've had a lot of robotic missions to Mars since then right Michael. What what's what have we. What have we done over there. We've we've spent a lot of rovers at to the surface now and the latest one now is curiosity and that's going and actually collecting samples driving around it has has a bunch of instruments that has drawn board for collecting samples. It has a laser for zapping rocks video of that or some some an image yeah yeah yeah yeah and the thing that personally excites me is that curiosity the ability to choose what Zaps with its laser pitches which is pretty pretty neat round Eliezer lint lint. That's cool and that's very cool for you that Rivera's son Yeah teaching rebutting getting progressively smarter more capable of acting with a little bit less oversight from US awesome. There's some question what do we find out from these rovers on from curiosity slurs rovers many many things but maybe the one that is interesting to the to the question of live on Mars it provided the first clear evidence that there were environmental Mars three three and a half billion years ago that it could have sustained life as we know it. Microorganisms would have been happy really in those environments died in that case. He's is is Elaine Berman which had plenty of water. It was long leave and the chemistry of that lake was completely compatible with life as we know it was so similar it was very similar and so the conditions were there for life to to to exist in to thrive and that's that's a major discovery so the water is kind of the key to all this water is the key and and the progression of those missions these being precisely followed the water all holy water because we need it's important for life and through following the water. We've reached these environments on the surface that are that it's clear that they could have sustained live in the past yeah yeah how did we. I find water that was one of the robotic missions actual what it would be the Phoenix right. That's right another stationary lander like the Viking that had an arm that could scoop soil and collect samples get photo that as well and image of the Phoenix Lander the arm that scooping Yep Yep so that can reach reach out and collect soil samples. Viking Lander didn't move we in in in reality we had an idea that there might have been there were there's water on Mars based on orbital data but Phoenix truly truly confirmed those those observations for more of it and confronted by digging a trend soil exposing ice water is analyzing some of that is and is that the polls right near the North Pole and based on what we know for more. It's as you get closer to the poles of Mars either. The in the north or the South Pole ground is becomes more and more abundant and close to the surface and in the fact that the Phoenix City was just a few inches under the cover of dry soil okay very cool. Okay so water ice it has found Phoenix and you told me it made made another big discovery yeah so when Phoenix analyzed the is it actually tasted the is the first time we taste is online on the taste it tasted salty salty dollars interesting not very salty but he did have some salt and assault turn out to be another very interesting discovery from Phoenix one of the major salt components in this is called perchlorate. It's a molecule that nobody really cared much about accepting the rocket fuel industry because it's actually rocket fuel really but why does he was discovered on Mars it significant abundances. Everybody became very interested. Yeah there this rocket you'll substance wisey. Mars coverage than rocket fuel all right turns out the natural compound on Earth as well in desserts and whatnot end to compounded SOM-. Tom Some microbes and earth can actually eat an years as an energy source yeah so that became a very interesting. I stood biology. result an energy source for life sitting there on the surface if is very close to water ice but the other interesting thing author chlorate. Is that it's a very reactive compound. It's not reactive from temperature. You can have precluded here on the table and it's not going to happen and nothing's going to happen to it over millions of years but if you expose it to radiation as on Mars the high radiation that we get you the decomposes imposes into very reactive molecules like the sun breaks it down on the radiation breaks it down and makes me reactive compounds just like bleach for example the stuff home okay and you know what happens when you mix bleach with chicken soup. No you get gas released and you get very similar gases as they were released in the Viking experiment. It's three Saul I'd happens at a similar rate and the similar abundances viking observe so forth years after after Viking indirectly without not actually looking for it right. Phoenix found the culprit for the Viking or the most likely culprit the Viking biological experiment results and answer. That's crazy for people to work on it. I hope they were still is closed. Yeah Yeah it was very exciting for people who were waiting for two years so then what happened yet exciting okay fascinating. We've bunches of questions coming in. Shall we turn to a question session. We're GONNA ask you whole bunch as many as we can. In five minutes and we'll look for rapid responses so we can get a lot of these so many to choose from Mazda asks. Is it possible that we might find fossilized microbial life. That's one of the issues with microbial. Live is the date only behind good fossils not certainly dinosaur bones that we can excavate and see and so that's that's a big challenge how to find evidence of life if coming out of microbes they're soft body tiny and you need several organisms that when they died they decomposed and donelly behind we have some ideas in fact when you look at the fossil records on earth the oldest evidence of live on earth which is dated at. It's three point five three eight billion years ago. It's actually structures made by microbes rox structures made by microbes the microbes that are long gone. They just leave. They left the house behind the house. Okay so microbes. I can leave behind fossils but it's it's hard to find that is cool. I had a question about what what methods can you use besides sides metabolic investigations in these robotic missions and I think that that might be well. There are a number you could think of well if you go to a place where you think microbes groups may actually be alive and happy you could bring a microscope. Bring US ample. PUT IT in water. Look at the microscope and the if not something swims. It's like waving you. Another one could be using instruments that actually analyze chemistry you know out of the organic chemistry which is what we think live is going to be made of organic compounds and and we can search for patterns in that chemistry that are too complex for something non biological to produce. Oh biology makes very complex organic compounds. It's things like DNA and proteins and so if we find something like this would be like finding a skyscraper on the moon is like somebody must have built it somebody built. I see okay. Does that was the question from jets fifteen. I was a good age. Eighty seven has wanted for you. I think Michael What would a rover mission to the polls be viable or particularly interesting. I definitely be interesting and I think actually operating in a noisy environment. unlike where the overs have been driving would be a lot more interesting in Ariella big challenge and also interesting but then there's also the worry about planetary protection right because if we don't WanNa breathing bring things there and if there's ice there air we could conceivably make water and if we make water and we have microbes on the rover then there's the risk that we could bring our own microbes there and pollute the planet something else to worry about on top of everything else. WHO's it related question from troubling or how long would it take to be certain there is no life and so so we wouldn't have to sterilize everything we send. Could you ever be certain you can never be certain. I don't know because we used to the earth as a planet worries covered the biology but went sometimes when you go to some places on the other extreme live is not everywhere. It's hiding very specific places and if you can imagine a planet that is extremely Mars. Maybe live is sitting somewhere. You know very tiny place. Maybe kilometers deep L. Y. Okay so how can be how can you be sure of It's not there so we always need to proceed with caution. Smile bringer asks what about non carbon based lifeforms. We usually usually base life upon life on earth there yeah there are good reasons why we are made the way we are and and there are some of them are reasons that are hard to There's there's there's only so much you can bend flaws of physics and chemistry to make things work and their ideas about noncarbon life but there are so far no places in in the universe that we know of where non non carbon based life could exist the might be there. We haven't found them and so to start searching. It's probably a good idea to search for. I think that you're familiar with it. You can recognize and you know where to search for rather than search for things that are so different that we again might not be able to recognize it even eat standing in front of us. I wonder if that's related to this question so let me throw this out from breath shaft to a one nineteen why follow water. We don't know for sure that organisms live only through water right yeah. It's a good point but he goes back to what we were talking about. Mars had water other places in the solar system had water. We know what life in water looks like. More is made off. Thanks thanks to Earth Biology so why not go there. It's a familiar place right if we find it there one of the interesting reasons why research for Abbas because once we we find life two point oh even if it's water based and carbon based but very different from us then our ideas of life will change will expand and then maybe we can think more seriously asli about life is completely but I think we need to point zero before we can make that step. That's how exciting I remember. Maybe a a year ago. The three of US had a conversation and you were telling us that even if you found one dead microbe on Mars be completely satisfied. That's right super excited dad microbes living microbes. If we find a living microbe we will have to kill it fortunately but but but yeah we even a dead micro even a fossilized that microbe yeah. I'll decomposed would tell us but revolutionize our biology geology and everything so exciting yell at all it takes is one just six that's right. This is Zola dare asks. How do you program a robot to search for life. What sort of decisions you have to make in order to search the most likely locations will the first thing. Is You have to identify what the most likely locations are. The way you do that is actually talking to people say go here. Go here. This is cool. We should look at then when it comes to program the robot. There's there's a lot involved from just basic things like getting the robot to physically move in the environment and then making smarter decisions and that's really again about taking a sensor data and then trying to say you know yes. This is something valuable and traditionally. We've again consulted with scientists and try to say you know well things. That look like this is good things like that. Ah Different we ignore It's a very involved process takes village to two. It's always exciting to see the scientists and engineers really working their magic together. Yeah well here. Here's an easy one from J. ABC's Dave. How do you boil down? Is it life to a quantitative value. Oh yeah easy so yeah so basically uh-huh right now. We can't say you know if this then life and perhaps the best way to do it is to try and extract the judgment of the scientists by studying how they behave and so machine learning techniques are kind of a promising approach for that so eventually you know just sit and watch. Alfonzo long enough and I'll right down everything he does and I'll run it through a small python script and then then great yeah. I'll ship that out into space. That's my job is done but yeah. It's not that simple I mean it's a very involved process and and if you think of the of the members are easy something waving do yes and something like a meteorite. There's nothing in there is the the problems are all the gray in between difficult part yeah but that's also what drives you guys sure. Exactly that's-that's Yup and something else to say is that it's also it's not one thing it's an accumulation of evidence and different observations that we eventually collectible confidence that if you've seen something that might be life point one one silver bullet science. Rarely you get a silver bullet you get a lot of smoking guns and no guns some guns without smoke demanding time for a a couple more before we move on everyone lined up where I got when gene intendo asks what amino acids if any have been detected on Mars not non so far and say he's a good isn't that good good place to start. We found Amino Acids in other planetary bodies small buddies comments but sorry those are interesting because they are building blocks for proteins right. They're interesting to reason why is because live on earth universities them to bill proteins which are very important molecules. The other one is because they are nature. It provides them for free. I mean it's are imprisoned. In meteorites they can form a Barak leave without the presence of life and so you would expect them to be available for life to emerge merge reminding any environment survived that environment and so they are what we call prebiotics before life available and so it's a good is a good place to start searching for for evidence of common ingredients. Everything else lines up for life to emerge. You've got your exactly yeah okay all right but we haven't thought any Marzia rights rates another one from MDM PhD doctor for long. What excites you about the future of robotics on other worlds. What robot would you send a space. I'm prepared to send all robots is not exactly right and so one of the things that humans like doing when they're exploring breathing oxygen and eating and coming back whereas robots are less demanding on that front and so if we're going to really explore further away things the things that are much by environments that are much more hazardous. robots are in my opinion the thing to do yeah yes so. I think planets it's well. The Moon is still there. Mars is great. Europa is is another possibly exciting. Jupiter rate yes yeah yeah and that actually sleep has the potential to have the world water as well so grad students alternative routes. They're not very demanding one of those there so yes yes the Grad students to make the robots work. That's true that's true so yeah. That's a call all to everyone who wants to get all these guys new Grad students so there's a comment that will lead us onto the next topic our talk about about I want to hear about some of the new tools that you guys are developing and kind of where you want to look at how that determines how you're gonNA look. This comment was from Hobbs Five. I guess if there is life on Mars. It's deep underground is that how does that drive what you're working on in the we've if anything with worrying about Mars is that can surfaces extreme bet maybe as you get deeper and deeper conditions become better and better and so then there are good reasons for it as you get closer to the center of the planet temperatures go up and we know there's plenty of is buried underground so at some point radically that is should melt. Yes maybe a habitable environment. You go deeper. Also some of the nasty things get into surveys. You don't get a depth like radiation and so the deeper you're more protected did from these things so it's a good bet if you go deeper harder yes yes. I'm getting so. Is that something you're working on like how to go deeper. We Are we well now on their court to to come up with ways to do this as you roll up. Michael's office Michael Colomiers later so we're actually we're developing a smart pillow right now smart drill yeah and and so we wanna smart pro because again. What does that mean well. It's a drill that deals with the problems ended encounters so we don't have to and so all these robots. They're they're far away. It takes plumbers. It takes about twenty minutes to get signal back right so you can have encountered a problem before we even have encountered a problem before we even know that it's it's going on and it could be too late at that juncture if it just keeps trying to just just drill as if everything was normal the smart girl tries to recognize problems and then fix them by basically by feel. How how it's behaving so if you're a drilling at home you know you're you're putting a screw into a piece of wood. if something goes wrong you can feel the drill shakes or it hits not just start skipping or youth read the screw reserve strip the head of the screw. You feel that it's not right similar we can do similar things with our drill can look vibrations. We can look at how much power it's drawing to do the drawing we can look at the temperature how hot it's getting and we can use that then. Try and decide okay. This is a particular kind of fault and this several different kinds of the things that can go wrong with drilling and then we take particular actions to to fix those problems and so it can be things like there's a rock between the drill and the whole that it's drilling it just sort of winds up or there can be soil falling in and it can't clear the whole fast enough so it's it's not making progress so yes we instrument carell put lots of sensors on it. Look at what data's coming back and say okay. This is a binding fault this. This is you know this is. We've had a hard surface. We can't penetrate great here. Take the appropriate action yeah. Israel itself can actually figure that out on its own now. Is that what you're that's the idea yeah and and teaching it to be a smarter drill. The problem is did skype skype calls between Mars and Eric are really really bad twenty minutes to get hello back and so we cannot rely on on instruments they're exactly and especially for drilling into like icy surfaces right we could conceivably melt the walls and again creating water which is planetary. Terry protection problem but it could also possibly rephrase drill stuck in the ice indefinitely and that would be the end. We cannot wait for us to learn about it decide what to do next sending information by Danny might be delayed right. I can't imagine trying to have a conversation with you and twenty minutes later response back the Abbey and if you're asking for instructions or a messed up my drills stuck what do I do. You might only get China to say something. It really underscores the need for some kind of autonomy here like man has got to act on his own a little bit yeah diagnosis on symptoms right precisely it can back back itself out or it can hammer through a hard adrover developing as a rotary progressive drill and so that means it can drill in like a normal drill were it can start hammering to break up one of her. It's drilling through to make it easier to make further progress with the more standard approach. Cool man sounds good. I'll take we have central's tomorrow before though right. Can you tell us a little bit about curiosity. Actually has has a drill. It's it's similar. It's a rotary progressive mechanism. I have here this This is just a drill that I took from machine shop so this is not the scale. It's not an accurate representation of what MSL has curiosity accident so curiosities. Joe is a little bit fatter and it's about S- guess about five centimeters depth so something about this this length we actually video video of it drilling that we could watch right now on Mars curiosity drills the arm drill. Yep and this whole drilling process takes about twenty. I five minutes okay and again. It takes twenty minutes after the start of the drilling to get back to Earth. It's almost done by the time we'd find out. It's begun okay. It was something goes wrong at the start your way too late yeah so is that in on its sped up right now the bright so we're seeing. That's a slow process that I see. It's not like my tickets. It's yes curiosity. Okay so it's drilling into Martian rocks. we have photos also of holes that it's drilled which is kind of fun because it's on the planet and it looks just like a drill hole at home. Can we see the image of a whole job by curiosity so the big hole is is the drill hall and then that Gray material is the stuff that was cleared out of the hole was making progress and then there's is that what little holes that's where the laser zapped it to sort of vaporize once they see what the rock is made of. Why is it gray. Why is that powder gray assuming a pain so some whereas known as the Red Planet but it's really it's covered in Rust oxidized materials. That's why it's red okay but it's not read all the way through and that gives you. A good idea of why important to go deep is because it's it's the depth dimension is another world We would've never learned that if we can do if we go even deeper right. We might learn things that right. Well completely unexpected thousand expected so curiosity. It's it's not really the Red Planet side. Not An it's hard it's hard before I saw that photo and and he might be ready and other places if anything with low analysis that it's it's very different. It's not the uniform planet once without it was which is why the rover robots are so important wouldn't we. We can't just characterize one little. Oh yes right right around. Maybe you land in the one spot that his gray imagine. If you know ten feet over from where life was yes yes. Yes Sir so we've we've looked at the the curiosity drill. You've shown us how big that is. What are you working on now. Yes This is the drill that we're working. It's a little bigger bigger bigger half so what you see. Here is these ridges here. It's the fluids and this is what lifts the material out of the hole and so we drove us. It's about three feet long and then what we really care about. Is this last ten centimeter bite hair at the bottom and that's you'll notice that the flutes are much more tightly spaced. Yes the ridges the the ramp right because this is this. Is You know it's a ramp pushes things up and goes out the the top of the home so again. They're denser here because we don't want the material chill to move my too quickly. Once we've hit the depth we care about and then we pull this out of the whole up to a sample collection device which then takes the the soil to the instruments for analysis look descend then we'll look for things like microbes or compound organic compounds and things like so. What is this whole here. I'm looking down a hole right there so there's a hole in the bottom and that's for cables to go down because again. This is a smart real smart means sensors and so we the in this drill. We'll have a temperature sensor to see how hot it's getting because that tells you how hard is it to drill into to want your drilling through and also has a conductivity sensor and that'll kind kind of TV me. That'll help us detective. We hit water or more. We make liquid water. Yeah there's liquid border. It's going to send a signal if it's right no signal so so. Why is that data useful. What does that. Tell You well it tells us them or it tells the drill how to operate when to stop went to proceed if he gets very hard you might want to stop and let it cool down. One reason might be planetary protection. We don't want to create an environment if we're drilling in things like is for example want great environment where microbes especially microbes we bring with us micro plant production but we also can learn about what what's the consistency and and the strength of the materials would really into so it's information that is good for science but information is good for the health of the drill right so this you would attach onto over. Orlando under yeah right yeah okay whatever vehicles taking the drill to the places we WANNA drill in. That's something you test on earth. Yeah so right. Now I believe league in fact right. Now I know we've got a team of scientists down in the common desert in Chile and they're testing a version of this drill with an actual simulated environment should be drilling a minute. They're not they're not. GonNa be says we brought some back to us here. From the Comma yes so this is the drill sites and so a few days ago yeah yeah and that's where the scientists are set up in the and that's our workhorse robot k rex to mounted with tracks axis over over there you can see the drill and the blue structure is the arm that will use to collect sample undelivered of the instruments. It's digging real turning that gear right. There is where the sample at comes out of the DRO as when it pulls back up and the bucket it is the COP and here is one of researchers just observing taking notes on the experiment a trying landscape that looks a lot like the Viking taking picture we saw a little while ago from the surface of Mars is truly Martian Mars yeah so cool. What is it yeah. Tell us a little bit more what it's like to be there because you guys have ben their yourselves. So that's the reason the drill is there an and the rover scientist. This is part of a project called air. It's it's the Atacama rover Astra Balaji Drilling studies yes and and the goal of the rover of the project is to to precisely learn more Mars science on earth so go to the driest place on the planet. That's the Atacama desert in northern Chile is the driest place on earth. I it's what we call in Astra Biology Collagen in planetary sciences an analogue environment analog similar not exactly the same but very similar to places out there in other planets and so it allows us to do science and test engineering without going to those places before we go to those breath getting ready to go to the jet engineering. Make sure that things things work properly in environments that are similar to places. We're going to go when it comes to science. It allows us to understand things like what happens. If you had chicken soup to soil there is very dry and then when we go to Mars and do the experiment we can kind of predict what might happen and so that's what is preparing Nassar to search for life on other planets by going to the Atacama desert and testing these instrumentation. That's cool. I love these projects but his dry as the outcome. is we still find their. We don't you know this is the earth it's hard or not to find life and so it's a place where we can test how good or bad our instruments are. It's definitely a place where if you don't find anything maybe you you don't have the right instrument. Okay because we expect we would expect level. Mars was present or fossilized life on Mars to be a lot less abundant the even the Atacama desert. It's a lot a lot worse than the open environment. Yeah you said Mars is a thousand times higher hire address place on Earth. You got a comment that drives place on Earth where you've been there. I have sunscreen sunglasses. Ask Your water so dry the no plants or animals life forms of life that surviving the driest parts of the camera or micro-organisms and they're we're not doing very well for that matter so pathetic Mars and everything we know about it. It tells us it's a hundred thousand times drier than the Atacama so the idea is you can't find it in the Atacama stand a chance on Mars Mars. You might still not be able to find him because it's so much more extreme but yet again it gives you that confidence that if you find it there maybe you're on the good track on the right track to find yours and so this is kind of like a test test case for Mars and yeah. I like to call it a dry run in the driest desert on earth very much intended but yes but fascinating so yes. I did get to go last steer to cover the story. Yup and there were lots of scientists last year working in the field but this year what's different a whole bunch of you're or here. Yes that's right so this is the fourth year of the project is the fourth time I think that team goes to the Alabama. in the breeze years. It's been our of science in underground and and testing different pieces by themselves or integrated into the rover. You're taking soil samples samples analyzing it so we did a lot of things but this year is special because what we're doing the simulated relate a Mars mission and so we have put on the ground with the rover and drill instruments and then we have a back room science team here at Ames directing the rover what do receiving data from the rover and based on that data giving the next steps instructions on what to do next just the way you would on the Mars mission that way so you would have a team of scientists back on earth and remorse and this week we meet we collected we get the data that the rover collected the previous day and the instruments we analyze data. It's not processed. Data is quick looks that we call which tell us yeah you got the sample you got. The data looks good move on and based on what we learned in the few snippets we get from that from those data sets we decided well go there and get that sample or go deeper and get another sample. It's a tactical decision that we need to make on the flight much hostage because you call it dirt today right there today happening on the rover thanks to intelligent rovers that we can tell them pick that up and the next thing we know in the composition Michael. I love that term because it makes it really. The rover is drilling. It's pulling up dirt. It's taking the sample throwing it into the instruments carries all and then the instruments are processing the sample analyzing the sample and sending the data and humans are not in the loop. That's being airplane. Man Nineteen ninety-seven says that's cool. He likes to agree on that yeah absolutely yeah. Here's a question also about the deal. MDM PhD asks what material is it made of this is steel steel and it's probably something like these that we would send his trap trapping been asked how much analysis can be done directly on Mars ars compared to how much can be done by bringing samples back to Earth so that's a good question. There are two different levels of analysis. You might want to do a preliminary Derek Week analyses his to check the health of instruments or to to to make sure that you've got data yes no and that's has very little signs involved but then that data gets transferred to us and then we have all the time in the world to look at it carefully and analyze the details. Obviously we might want to make decisions quickly for the next steps for the mission but all the data gets saved in the repository the scientist pretty much around the world can access and analyze look in these out over many years so we're we're still looking at biking data. Oh Wow and so you know that's the science can move it moves very hectic pays at the beginning in the mission but then we have all the time in the world to actually dig through the data and understand what's going on. We do have a mission where the the looking at cashing samples right for brace right yeah the next one Mars twenty twenty but sort of the follow on from curiosity today and it's going to it's going to a bedroom benton how the lake I all what we think was based on what we know from orbit and it's going to be the first step in campaign for sample apple returned to bring samples actually backwards very exciting. Dr Riot asks any plans in the future to take samples from the areas where received seasonal Brian flow low on cliff faces so that someone who's been following the Mars News. That's that's salty. Water was found flowing. They're they're intriguing observations on the surface of Mars. We're not still we're still trying to figure out what the the cause for these patterns is but there's one possibility there is liquid water or salty waters and so that would be like you know for us to biology that will be a beacon go come here and take me sample me but the but but it's not easy there are many places we would like to go and normally the places. WanNa go are the most challenging once they're always on the slope. Hope always environment for whatever reason it's it's never easy but this is definitely one of many places we would like to go and collect samples uh-huh so okay. The challenges of drilling off world makes me think of plans for the arguments program. NASA is heading to the Moon we are at Tony Twenty Four. I think that's going to be part of it isn't it and the the trip back to the moon or sending the first Orman and then more men to the job yeah and so that's setting up to be long term habitation on on the on the moon and one of the things we need to do is try and get resources there right so we've recently found out that there is water on the moon which is kind of surprising. I think it's ice crystals right yeah. Yeah that's hard to extract. It's an icy material right and again you want smart drill to try and be mitigating the risks of drilling into these icy surfaces so stuff like we're doing errands actually feeds into the to the Ottoman sir. I can see that is exciting right so it's multi purpose drill potentially potentially for many locations off world okay yeah. I like that you've got the you know the scientists working with the engineers for the Mars search for life an oh. It's also going to be really helpful. When we get to the Moon Yeah. It's an example of how exploration drives explorations a will that doesn't stop turning yeah rickel cool cool these things here's a question. I like from airplane Man Nineteen ninety-seven what would the drill sound like on this little. That's a great question from the atmosphere's a lot thinner. Yeah would certainly be quieter. Atacama sound yeah with sound. it sounds like donald jackhammer higher pitched sounds like and engineers drill. That's what you've the high pitched squeak noise and definitely not white noise no idea how how it sounded Mars or lower in question nobody it wouldn't be quite as annoying and there wouldn't be anybody to have have to listen to it. Yeah not yet yeah. Can I ask you once we arrive and we're the worst neighbors noise would make also about the Martian environment Lugers Bro Assist Martian gravity similar to what we have on our planet. No no no it's about a third and so does that affect the drill and how you have to design it. That's a good question and so when we're drilling we apply fourth yeah. and gravity helps yeah. It doesn't actually I would guess affect the rate that we could extract material from the whole sounds to compensate the weight loss yeah that you get Mars. If you'd want to compensate for some bad we actually have to add some weight on the drill so that he can push downwards within a force layers yeah all right more more quiet real sixteen asks does the drill go straight down or does it have the ability to change directions or even go horizontally strata. It's a straight one one way yes at least in the setup that we're doing. Arad's you could conceivably try and do slant drilling but that would be more complicated problem again and risky yeah because it could get up. Go off to one side or something if you know or even snap view force it too much yeah. It's made to go straight down right. Okay speed. Steven wants to know if both of our guests guys could be on the surface of Mars tomorrow. What would be the first thing you would do to search for life. Start digging in bring some chicken Su That's a good question well. I I have as we mentioned earlier. The surface of Mars is very different whatever you go. It's a very different services. Some places like near the polar caps. I would get some of that. Water Ice Melted Cup of tea. Maybe the microscope and see something since around if I was in a place like is ancient rocks may that formed in the lake bed three billion years ago. I might get some samples and threatened them. Through very sensitive instruments means that can analyze the chemistry and search for those traces of dead microbes navy you fight could bring Michael with me and he took limiters. I would just wait into surveys until we get the Tampa. What's there if something is actually lurking down there so depends on where you are yeah yeah. It's it's a post certainly was a very environment environment still is a very environment from a geological perspective. yeah so it's it's just like one place isn't enough. If we want to increase our odds of finding life yeah go all over yeah. Cuba meister zero nine asks how long would it take from discovering confirming to publishing that life has been found uh-huh scientific process scientific process Oh what would it take for you to be. I guess it depends on what you find. Find something waving. Could you don't even publish. We let everybody enjoy it with the weaker. Do they believe that if we if if we find it's not going to be probably set clear clearcut is now going to be a straight path be surprising science rarely really works that way they do have a clear path from discovery to publication to acceptance and especially with things so important and and groundbreaking is finding Lebanon the planet so it's GonNa take a while to process the data I I wish it was clear but if not then there will be debates they will be meetings and conferences where people will go and have a back and forth eventually papers will be published and then the scientific method demands that stop there we we try again we continue and we confirm or disprove those results and it's that process of of building on results in testing and new policies. He's a neat newest. Clermont's but in the end at provides the evidence that we need or or not and so like with Viking took about forty years so sample and there might be people out there that were not convinced of of the Perk Laurie explanation Oh and it's a valid thing in science that you can always doubt you should always out the standing explanation so keep testing touching. You can't prove things right. You can only prove them wrong right. Exactly Yep Goodwin quick question from digital longer will Mars twenty twenty river have any instruments for life detection it does in percents because twenty twenty relies a lot on the cell and doing a lot of the science when the samples come back to Earth that focuses on smart instruments that can identified defied the right samples to bring back and so that doesn't require really analyzing every element that rock to know exactly where it came from we can do that back on earth when the samples going back but we do need instruments that can tell well you know between those two samples the it looks this looks like a better sample to cash and preserve and bring back to Earth because of its composition might be different and things like those instruments are selected precisely to do that. Select the best possible samples for Ethan meat from the MPG. What have we learned about Martian dust or dirt that would impact robotic tasks. Is that something you're learning from the ear. Ed's project in the Atacama. How does we're actually having an interesting problem in arends right now in that when we're drilling up dirt we have a camera that's looking at where the dirt comes is out and goes into the scoop and the dirt is getting stuck to the lens of the camera which is a problem for cameras as because they they need to be useful yeah so that's that kind of that mitigation domination is is a big thing. That's a problem we need these a problem. You remember we have these scoop. There's collecting cuttings from the drill and then brings into these Germany. We have strong winds. You're counting smart. Blah of the scoop so we learned how to position the scoop and the rover in the way that blocks wind and prevent sample Tampa loss keep going reds things before rovers go to Mars and start drilling but that is all the time we ah today it goes so quickly but thank you so much to you guys for joining us. He's a fascinating and thank you to everyone who joined us in the chat on twitch join us next next time that'll be October twenty four th for our second annual NASA themed Halloween Costume and caused play contests those a lot of fun last year. Join us for that. Thanks thanks for watching and we will see you next time
Perseverance and Ingenuity
"Did. You know GEICO's now offering an extra fifteen percent credit on car and motorcycle policies. That's fifteen percent on top of what Geico could already save you. So, what are you waiting for your baby to let you sleep in? Sleeping another half hour. Thank Sweetheart. And you'll change yourself to. Never been a better time to switch to GEICO. Save an extra fifteen percent when you switch by October seventh limitations apply. Visit GEICO DOT COM for details. Hi Guys. I'm Katie. Lowes, actress, mom and host of the parenting podcast Katie's crib. A show that helps, women navigate the colossal changes that come with motherhood. You'll hear from resilient Mama's knowledgeable experts and me asking a whole lot of questions, it's real talk that offers real perspective on what it's really like to be a parent. New episodes published every other Thursday listen to Katie's scrape on iheartradio APP or on Apple podcasts wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to textile a production from iheartradio. Hey there welcome to text up I'm your host Jonathan Strickland I'm executive producer with iheartradio and a lovell things tech. Now at the end of July twenty twenty NASA plans to launch a new rover on a journey to Mars to continue the work of Sojourner, Spirit, opportunity and curiosity, all of which have really extended our knowledge of the Red Planet. This new rover is called perseverance, and it really is something special. So today we're going to learn about the rover and its mission, and also a high risk high reward experiment called Ingenuity, that is not technically part of perseverance, but as going along for the ride, however before we do that, we've got a lot of other ground to cover both here on earth and on Mars. And I WANNA. Talk a little bit about why I chose this as a topic in the first place. I is timing. Obviously this episode should come out a couple of weeks before the scheduled launch, assuming everything goes well, and another reason is that these missions often reinforce things that I find really inspiring and even hopeful transporting spacecraft to Mars let alone landing something on that planet, and then using that something to explore conduct scientific experiments that's a monumental achievement and requires so much work, and they builds on more than a century of discoveries and theories. It's a team effort in which hundreds of people pool their talent and expertise to pull off. Off what when you really look at, it seems like it should be impossible, so while we have tons of problems, we need to address here on earth from dealing with the pandemic to addressing real social inequalities and more I look at how people have managed to build devices that explore another planet, and it strikes me that if we have the determination, we really can achieve and critical things. We just need to apply that determination anyway here we go as I record. This NASA has already pushed back the launch a couple of times so. So and the moment when I'm sitting at this microphone, the scheduled launch date is for July thirtieth twenty twenty now if that date should slip, for whatever reason, NASA will have a relatively narrow window to launch or else face, the reality that they will have to shelve project for more than two years. So why is that well? Let's imagine the Solar System Earth is the third planet out from the Sun. Mars is the fourth planet out Earth and Mars revolve around the sun at different speeds, which means sometimes the two planets are moving. Moving closer together and sometimes they are moving further apart in their respective orbits, both planets have elliptical rather than circular orbits around the Sun which also means there's a point in the orbit where each respective planet is closest to the Sun. This is called the perihelion, and there's also a point in the orbit where each respective planet is furthest from the Sun this is the eighth alien Oh, and also both of these orbits are slightly tilted with respect to one another complicating things even more because they don't lie in the same orbital plane. These three dimensional realities are a real pain in the neck. All of this means that when the planets do approach one another. They aren't in the same spots in their respective orbits. As they were the last time they got close to one another the closest they've been to each other in recorded history is about thirty three point, nine million miles apart or fifty four point, six million kilometers, and at that distance it would take light about three minutes to travel from one planet to the other, and that's the fast stuff in the universe. Remember nothing goes faster than light. To even have that situation, you would need the earth to be at its eight billion, where it's furthest from the Sun, and Mars would have to be at its perihelion where it is closest to the sun, and both planets are on the same side of the sun, and this does not happen frequently at least not on human terms. That thirty three point nine million mile distance happened back in two, thousand, three and according to math that was the closest. The two planets have been for fifty thousand years now, generally speaking, you do get to spans of time when the two planets are relatively close to each other, but because we're not just looking at orbital position, the shape of the orbits themselves, it's complicated. And those are a lot of parameters that you have to have lineup the scenario where earth passes between Mars and the sun is called opposition and we call it opposition because from our perspective here on Earth, Mars appears to be exactly opposite where the sun is as the sun is setting at night, Mars is rising in the east and when Mars sets in the West during the morning hours, the sun is rising in the east during. Mars appears as if it is a Red Star in the sky nearly as bright as Venus is. It happens when Mars is closest, the Sun we call it, Para. He'll lake opposition. Moreover, the distance will begin to grow after that point as the plants begin to move apart each other due to their different orbital velocities and elliptical orbits, so at the extreme end, when the two planets are the furthest, they can possibly be from each other on either side of the sun, so the sun is in between Earth and Mars, they are two hundred forty nine million miles apart four hundred one million kilometers at that distance. It would take light a whopping twenty two minutes to travel between Mars and earth. Now that this really matters because you also have a big old son in the way, so you would actually have complications. This scenario is called a solar conjunction. Now here's the thing because of all the factors that I've described here. It takes a little more than two years to go from one opposition or one conjunction to the next one. And actually it's about twenty six months, so earth and Mars will get the closest. They can possibly be in their respective orbits to one another, and then it takes another twenty six months for it to happen again halfway through those six months you will get to the point where they are furthest from each other, and you get the conjunction now. Why did I spend so much time talking about that? It's because NASA has to take all of this into account when planning out mission to Mars, you want to minimize the distance that you're. Spacecraft has to travel in order to get to its destination. Space travel is tough. Man I mean it requires a lot of fuel and fuel has mass and mass means that you need more to get out into space, so you can't just add more fuel to a launch vehicle. All Willy Nilly because just adding that fuel changes things. Moreover, you want to minimize all the things that can go wrong while traveling from point, Earth, two point, Mars. One good way to do that is to reduce the amount of travel time, which means aiming for a time when the two planets are going to be closest moreover. Moreover you don't just launch when Earth and Mars are close. Because it takes about one hundred fifty days or so for space vehicle to get from Earth to Mars under ideal conditions, and these planets remain in motion that whole time it's not like they just stop so if you aim your rocket to wear Mars now. Mars won't be there. By the time the rocket arrives at that location in space. The best you can hope for is maybe a written by Mars that says something like sorry I missed you and Mars notoriously bad at writing notes. So! Instead you have to aim at where Mars will be rather than where Mars is. It's like leading a target. If you were skeet shooting right? A clay pigeon is shot up into the air. You have to lead it a little bit. If you want to hit it well this year Mars and earth will actually be closest not in July during the scheduled launch, but in October. Specifically on October thirteenth, that's when the two plants will be thirty eight point, six million miles apart or sixty two point one million kilometers again, not as close as they were back in two thousand and three, because they are not gonna be at the ideal. Ideal points in their respective orbits to be absolutely the closest they can be the last day NASA can launch a space vehicle and take advantage of all. This would be August fifteenth if conditions prevent NASA from launching by that date will probably be waiting around two years before we get another opportunity. This is also why if you look at the history of missions to Mars, you'll see. They hit pretty much every two years or so this is also why when we talk about potential human missions to Mars. We typically talk about a long mission that would see astronauts stay on Mars for a couple of years because it would be too challenging. Challenging to land on Mars goof around for a week or so, and then try and launch back to Earth. Because the distance would be mounting between the two planets, we would need a mission where we could spend an appreciable amount of time on Mars. Perhaps creating new rocket fuel on Mars itself that way, we don't have to carry a return trips worth of fuel on our way there. That would be kind of a deal breaker, because not only are you talking about an enormous amount of weight which again adds to your concerns? When you're launching the vehicle, it also represents a massive hazard. You know rocket fuel is dangerous stuff, but we'll. We'll get more into that. When we talk about one of the experiments that perseverance is going to do on its mission, interestingly, whether the launch vehicle takes off on July thirtieth, or on August, fifteenth, or any date in between the estimated date when it will enter service that is when it will land on Mars and establish communications from the surface of the red. Planet back here to Earth that does the same. It's February eighteenth, twenty, twenty one so of the launch does go ahead as planned I really hope it does. It's still going to be a while before. NASA can conclude whether or not the mission was a success or even just. The initial part of the mission is a success. Moreover, this distance between Earth and Mars means that any rover mission to Mars requires a lot of automation a lot of autonomy. The distances here mean that at minimum you're looking at around six minutes between when you can send a command to rover on Mars and when you'll get a return signal. That's if our than Mars are as close as they can possibly be, and usually that's not even the. We don't typically have that right most of the time. Earth and Mars are pretty far away from each other. When the curiosity rover arrived on Mars on. Six Two thousand twelve, the distance between the two plants meant took nearly fourteen minutes to get signals from the rover with that sort of delay. It's impossible to manually control things, so you have to create vehicles that can land and operate on their own one way to do that is to design parachutes that deploy once the spacecraft or ejected rover reaches a certain altitude above Mars, but the Martian atmosphere. Is Really Thin. That's going to be important later. In this episode two. In fact, the atmospheric pressure at the surface of Mars is similar to what you would find at thirty five kilometers of altitude here on earth so. Dad Salat thirty-five thousand meters above the earth. That air pressure is similar to the standard surface level air pressure on Mars to put it another way. We measure atmosphere pressure in units called Mila bars here on Earth, the pressure at sea level is one thousand Thirteen Mila Bars Mars atmospheric pressure varies during the Martian year, but it averages out to be between six to seven million bars. That's it so one thousand thirteen here on earth six to seven, not thousand just six to seven on Mars. Now since parachutes work by forcing air into a canopy, and then effectively turning that canopy into a wing, you need atmosphere for it to work. A parachute would be useless on Earth's moon. For example, because there's not enough atmosphere to turn the parachute into a wing, Mars has an atmosphere. It's then, but it's there. However, it is so thin. The parachutes can typically only provide a little bit of the breaking and support during the landing process, so nastase used a few different techniques to get rovers on the surface, and not have them just break apart upon landing including Housing Rovers in landing craft equipped with. The airbags could help cushion the impact on the landing on Mars. The curiosity rover had a super awesome approach. The rover was inside a descent vehicle, which in turn was inside a larger structure. It's called the Mars Science. Laboratory or MSL, and the myself had thrusters on it. That could make fine tune adjustments during the descent phase in order to maintain the right orientation that also had a heat shield to absorb heat during you know entering the Martian atmosphere. And Once it reached a certain altitude. It deployed a parachute which helped slow its descent, and then a little bit lower in altitude, the MSL ejected a descent stage, so this kind of platform with thrusters on it, and the rover was mounted inside the platform, and this would fired its thrusters, slowing its descent further until it hovered above the Martian surface. then. Lowered the curiosity rover on a tether turning the descent vehicle into what they called a sky crane. The idea was that the rover would touch on Mars. It would sever the tether to the descent stage, and then the rover would be ready to go to work, and here's the thing this whole process from entering Marzieh's atmosphere all the way to the point where the rover touched down would take about seven minutes. But you remember the delay. It was fourteen minutes of communication delay so. The whole process took about half the time. It takes communications to go from Mars to Earth at this point in the two planets orbits, so the whole process had to happen without human intervention, and only that a success would mean that the rover would actually be down on Mars for seven minutes before we even knew it had worked, and it turns out. It did work which truly is phenomenal and I even did a special podcast with Tom Merritt of daily tech news show fame back when this happened in two thousand twelve. I remember getting really emotional about this. Because when you consider the innovation, inventiveness required to make something like this actually work. It's really incredible the perseverance rover will follow in curiosities. Tire tracks and that it's going to use a similar strategy for E. D. L., that stands for entry, descent and landing, so it's also going to use the sky crane maneuver in order to land and this time the descent vehicle will have a couple of new tricks of its proverbial sleeve. For example it will have a set of tools called terrain, relative navigation or T R N which will scan the. The Martian terrain and allow the vehicle to change its descent path in order to avoid any terrain that looks particularly hazardous and improves the chances of a successful touchdown, and it's also going to have a microphone, so we'll get to hear what it sounds like to land on Mars. Plus if the rover wants to bust out, some David Bowie Karaoke on the way down, that microphone will come in Handy. When we come back, I'll talk more about the tools aboard the perseverance what they are meant to do and a bit about how they work, but first let's take a quick break. Support for tech stuff is brought to you by manscaping. Who is the best in men's? Below the belt grooming manscaping offers precision engineered tools for your family jewels. They obsess over their technology developments to provide you the best tools for your grooming experience, and let's face it. 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Get twenty percent off and free shipping with the code tech stuff at MANSCAPING DOT com. That's twenty percent off with free shipping at manscaping. Dot Com and use the code tech stuff. Guys let me tell you something about the future. Not only is it where you and I will live the rest of our lives. Thank you ed wood. It's also always changing. Take it from me I used to host a video series all about the future and. It's tough to predict well. Honeywell is producing a podcast called. The future is, and it explores the future of technology of business of our lives. It looks at everything from quantum computing to automation to healthcare technology, the future of work and more. This is the type of podcast. I love to listen to heck. It's the type of podcast I love to host, so you know I'm on board. You should check out. The future is podcast. New episodes available on the iheartradio APP on apple on spotify and Google the technology is here in our world now and the future is will provide you with up to date technology. You don't WanNa miss out on. Perseverance is about the same size as its predecessor curiosity, which means it's the size of a small car. It weighs a bit more than curiosity as well. has a mass of one thousand twenty five kilograms so here on earth. It weighs two thousand two hundred sixty pounds. If we don't include the rover's arm, the rover measures about ten feet long by nine feet wide and. And it's seven feet tall. That's three meters by two point seven meters by two point two meters, so it's a pretty big rover before we get into the super techie stuff and the goals of perseverance. Let's look at some other related things. For example, the launch vehicle perseverance will depend upon the launch of an atlas, five five forty one launch vehicle from the United Launch Alliance. This is a two stage rocket essentially, and it stands fifty eight meters or one hundred ninety one feet tall when the payload is attached to the top. fully-fueled with the payload in place, the full launch vehicle weighs five, hundred, thirty, one thousand kilograms or one point one seven million pounds, the five four one designation tells us a lot about launch vehicle, as it turns out so that five in five four one refers to the diameter of the fairing that holds the payload in place with the launch vehicle, so in this case, the spacecraft that will hold the perseverance and this ferrying is. is five meters in diameter. That's what that five means, so what's the four and five or one main? Well, that tells us how many solid fuel rocket boosters are part of this launch vehicle so therefore solid fuel rocket boosters, and the one tells us how many rocket engines are in the second stage. This is called the Centaur and there are single engine centaurs and dual engine Centaur, so this one is a single engine, Centaur. The first stages rocket engine is called the Rda one eighty and this one was made in Russia. The engine burns a fuel made of kerosene and liquid oxygen. The second stage Centaur uses fuel made of liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen, which must be kept at very low temperatures to remain liquid, and for that reason they are called cryogenic propellants, so at launch, the boosters and rocket engine for the first stage will carry the vehicle up to a certain altitude, and that's where the first stage will separate from the rest of the vehicle the first stage. Stage will fall back to Earth the second stage ignites and propels the spacecraft out to its trajectory to bring it on an intercept course with Mars, and then it separates from the launch vehicle, and then perseverance aborted spacecraft will be on its way on its very long trip out tomorrow. So assuming everything goes as planned, perseverance will touch down on Mars in February twenty twenty one thanks to the sky crane maneuver if things don't go as planned. I mean I. Don't know I. Mean if if it doesn't launch by August fifteenth, there's a real question of whether or not the project can be put on hold for two years, and if something goes wrong well, I guess you know the mission scrapped and stuff can go wrong because space as it turns out is super hard like that thing is trying to kill you, but let's say it all goes to plan, and the rover makes it to Mars. What is it going to do when it's there? WILL NASA says the mission will last at least one year on Mars that is one Martian year that's equal to six hundred eighty seven earth days so nearly two full earth years. If, the mission is a success. We may well see the experiments stretch on much longer than that. The opportunity mission was only intended to last for ninety days, but it was able to continue for nearly fifteen years, but was perseverance going to do. It's up there all that time. The overall program perseverance as part of is called the Mars exploration, program or M EP and one of the primary goals of MVP is to look for signs of life. Most likely signs that life once existed on Mars thousands and thousands and millions of years ago, but Boy It really would be cool if we found evidence of microbial life on Mars today NASA has laid out four science objectives that perseverance will pursue an effort to further the skull. The four objectives are looking for habitability that is seeking out areas that could have supported microbial life in the ancient past seeking bio signatures, so looking for evidence that microbial life actually did exist in these habitable environments such as in signs in the rocks themselves. Cashing samples, this is all about collecting and analysing rock and soil samples, and preparing for humans which will take on the super cool challenge of producing oxygen on Mars now we'll dive into these more in a moment, but in addition to the four primary objectives, perseverance will also study the season's on Mars, and how whether patterns change including stuff like dust storms, it will be building on our understanding. Amar's which will be critical if we ever do actually WanNa send astronauts there or columnists so. What perseverance will be doing sets the stage for future missions with actual humans on Mars. NASA's going about this in a very methodical way, and I say that because I'm sure. At least some of you remember. The private organization called Mars one that had the stated goal of establishing a permanent colony on Mars. The Mars one plan was to create habitats on the planet, or technically under the surface of the planet, because Mars doesn't have the same protective measures as earth does when it comes to deflecting harmful radiation and particles from. From stuff like you know. The Sun and the Mars one plan didn't have anything in it about coming back to Earth. This was a one way trip. The organization was founded in two thousand eleven. It attempted to raise money from investors and through an application process, in which people would divide to be considered as astronauts with this mission, but it ultimately didn't go anywhere and that by the way is a big strike against space exploration. And space exploration. You gotta go somewhere right so the owners ended up liquidating the organisation in early two thousand nineteen. Some people think the whole thing was nothing more than a scam now I don't know if the founders intentionally set out to mislead people or not, but I was certainly skeptical of the efforts, as it seemed to be taking a lot of assumptions as concrete facts, and that's dangerous now that's not the case with NASA's approach. It's always dangerous spaces always dangerous, but they're not taking some shins. Shins as fact, their approach is to build a foundation of knowledge upon which future missions will continue to build with the hopeful goal of one day, having astronauts, themselves set foot on Mars, but Nasr's not quite as cavalier as the Mars one plan, so let's start with the analysis of Mars and the search for life then will move on to the components that have more to do with laying the groundwork for human exploration in the distant future, and then we have the issue of ingenuity to talk about. But that's for a kicker. At the end. One of the things perseverance has that curiosity doesn't have is a drill, so perseverance will be able to drill into soil and rocks on Mars to collect samples for analysis. The drill is on the rovers, big arm, but a smaller arm actually plays a part in this to it can supply sample tools to the drill so as As the drill is working the soil and rock that it ends up. Removing can be collected in one of these tubes. Then the little arm can take that tube full of material and store it back on the rover at the end of this, the rover will store certain rocks and soil samples very specific ones ones that the back on earth have identified as being particularly interesting. Ill store a collection of these in a cash that's intended for later retrieval and the idea that these would someday be returned to Earth I'll talk about that at the end of this episode now this mission itself lacks the ability to come back. There's nothing about the perseverance mission that allows them to return to Earth so. This will have to wait for a future mission. The plan is to collect at least twenty samples. However, the rover does have enough equipment to collect as many as forty three now along with the forty three sample tubes, the rover will also carry five special tubes called witness tubes. The purpose for these is to. To make sure that the stuff perseverance is finding is actually coming from Mars see one of the risks of this kind of exploration is that our equipment might unwittingly introduced stuff from Earth into Mars and if that stuff happens to be organic in nature like it happens to be the same as an organic marker, it could mean that any evidence we find that suggests life was once on. Mars could actually be a total red herring because it could turn out the organic material actually came from Earth in the First Place and was unwittingly released on Mars. It's Kinda like one of those movies where you got a crooked cop who drops? Of incriminating material right in front of a suspect and says well. Why do we have here? We got some evidence. Except, of course, the rover wouldn't be doing this on purpose. It's not a scuzzy. Bad Cop type the witness tubes can capture contaminants and allow researchers on earth to discern whether the stuff that was collected on Mars. Actually is totally Martian in origin, or if it has some contaminants that were accidentally brought by perseverance, so they can do that if those tubes ever find their way back to Earth, so this is also part of that long term deal. The rover hermetically seal all the sample tubes and store temporarily in the rover itself, but eventually the team will determine a location where the rover will store. All of these tubes called these sample cash depot, and this is where they will stay until if your mission can pick them up and bring them back home to Earth there are seven major scientific instruments aboard the. The perseverance, so let's go through those first up is the Mass Cam Z. camera mounted on a Vertical Pole, thus the term mast, and this is near the center of the rover. The camera has a panoramic camera as well as a stereoscopic imaging camera, so it can take really wide shots of the horizon, or it can use it. Stereoscopic lenses to capture a three dimensional images on Mars is surface. The Not only will this camera used to take lovely photos and to help the team on our determine where to send the rover. It also can help engineers back on earth. Learn more about the mineralogy. Houses surface next we have the Super Cam, which by day is a mild mannered photographer for the daily planet. Wait sorry. No, I, meant that it's camera intended to analyze the chemical composition of stuff on Mars at a distance. Then you've got pixel. X L. That actually stands for planetary. Instrument for x Ray Litho Chemistry and if you're wondering what Litho Chemistry is, you're not alone because I don't think. I have ever seen that word ever before I started researching this episode in fact, as I was researching the term the only time I was seeing any instance of Litho chemistry as a word was in reference to Pixel itself, and this annoys me. I mean NASA. If you're going to use cute acronyms for your tools, you can't just get around the inconvenience of. Of, not having the correct letters by making up a word, but let Suss it out so Lizzo means stone now it all makes sense right, Litho, chemistry means the chemical makeup of stones on Mars in this case, and this device uses x-rays in order to release study. The stones around the rover x rays have shorter wavelength that carry way more energy than the visible light spectrum does. The Pixel has a spectrometer which is a device that measures the spectral components of something, and no, this isn't about. Specter's like. Or something this is more about a spectrum you know like the spectrum of electromagnetic radiation or the spectrum of visible light, so they measure a continuous variable of some sort, and the Pixel measures the electromagnetic radiation that's reflected off of various materials on Mars, which then tells us more about what those materials are made of. Then we've got these scanning habitable environments with Raymond Luminescence for organics and chemicals, and this is a really cute acronym. The acronym is Share Lock This is another spectrometer, but rather than x-rays. This one uses an ultra violet laser now like X. X? Rays, ultraviolet waves are shorter in wavelength and higher in energy than the visible spectrum, but they don't penetrate as far as x rays deal. The spectrometer will also measure the composition of materials on Mars and search for the presence of organic compounds. It also has a high resolution camera for microscopic imaging. So that's pretty neat. Then there's the radar imager for Marzieh's subsurface experiment or REMM facts does one uses a radar system that can penetrate the ground and give what NASA calls a quote centimeter scale resolution of the geologic structure of the subsurface end quote. Super Nifty. then. There's one more scientific experiments aboard the perseverance that we need to talk about as well as ingenuity. Some thing I haven't really covered yet, but keep teasing, but we'll get back to that. We take another short break. Hey podcast Vam Jada Pinkett. Smith host of the red tape talk podcast and I want to introduce you to two of the most important women in my life. My Mom Adrienne Banfield Norris she's really old school. I never wanted you to be in that situation. Like not date will at all. Everything is by the book, and then we have my daughter Willow Camille. Reign Smith I'm. I'm going to be like my ancestors in. Just do what I need to do. We've brought these three generations to the Red Table to talk about family relationships social issues in a whole bunch more. We're all going through something right, so put on your headphones and join me Jada. Pinkett Smith Gammy and willow for your favorite episodes on the Red table talk podcast table glowing. Some extra men. Thank you. I appreciate it. Listen to the Red Table Talk podcast presented by Facebook Watch and Westbrook audio on the iheartradio, APP apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast every week Las Vegas Golf. Betting experts Brady Cannon and West Reynolds Review. 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The last of the major experiments aboard the perseverance is the Mars Oxygen Institute Resource Utilization Experiment or Moxie. What a great acronym! Now, this experiment will attempt to generate oxygen from the carbon dioxide. That's in Marzieh's atmosphere. See here on Earth Co two makes about point zero four percent of our atmosphere, and that's it and honestly that's enough. Co Two is a greenhouse gas. In fact out of all the greenhouse gases that humans release in our atmosphere co two makes up eighty one point three percent of them, so a little co two can go a long way when it comes to the greenhouse effect, but Mars is. Atmosphere is a totally different story. They're Co. two is a major player. It makes up ninety five point thirty two percent. PERCENT OF MARS atmosphere. Oxygen by contrast makes tiny point one three percent of Mars atmosphere here on earth. It's twenty one percent of our atmosphere now it's incredibly obvious that we humans need oxygen, and it stands to reason that would be way better if we could produce the oxygen. We need on Mars while you know. We're actually on Mars as opposed to bringing everything with US everything we decided we'd need to bring. We have to launch off the earth and launching stuff is expensive, and it's risky, so it would be better if we could create all the stuff we need while we're already on Mars. Of that besides breathing, we need oxygen as a component for rocket fuel, so using the resources of Mars to create fuel would be a huge deal again. We wouldn't have to send our return trips. Worth of fuel out on the launch. That would be enormous now. moxie isn't going to tariff form Mars. It's a small scale experiment more like a proof of concept it will take co two from Mars atmosphere and converted into. And carbon monoxide through an electrochemical process so moxie polls in air from the environment. It'll pass that air through a filter and then pressurize the co two, so that's approximately one atmosphere in pressure that is one earth atmosphere in pressure, which is much greater pressure than what you would find in Mars zone atmosphere, the Co two then goes to a solid oxide, electrolysers or s, O x. e, the electrochemical process does the separating at a temperature of eight hundred degrees Celsius so. Things get pretty toasty there are gas pre heating components. There's also an exhaust cooling component. All this is really important for Moxie to operate, but also it's important to cool the exhaust in order to protect the other experiments that are aboard the perseverance. The exhaust also has to pass through a filter before it can be vented back to the Martian atmosphere. Now? Why is that well? It gets back to those contaminants. I mentioned earlier. We ever responsibility to limit the sort of contaminants. We could introduce to another planet, and there's actually an official policy about this is called the planetary protection requirements. Now assuming mock sees, experiments are successful. We might see. NASA and other organizations create larger implementations of the same technology to make. Make a significant amount of oxygen from the Martian atmosphere, and that will be a big step in the direction to send people to Mars as it will give those people an important component for making the rocket fuel needed to return back here to Earth and now finally it's time to talk about ingenuity, a high risk high reward experiment. It's high risk because. No one really knows yet. If it's actually going to work, it's high reward, because if it does well, we'll have an incredible experience that we can build upon so what the heck is ingenuity. It's a helicopter. Yeah! Perseverance is bringing along with it a helicopter to Mars so you can get to the chopper and get to Mars at the same time, thus fulfilling two different arnold. Schwarzenegger, Film Plots Simultaneously It's never been done before now. Let's get more specific. When I say, helicopter I don't mean the sort of flying vehicle that carries people around here on earth. This is more like a drone. It's a very small aircraft. It's Thomas, which yeah would have to be. There's no way you could fly this thing via remote control back here on earth it would crash then you'd be waiting fifteen minutes or whatever or to find out about it. The ingenuity has a mass of one point eight kilograms so here on earth. It weighs four pounds. And it makes sense that needs to be lightweight, because the Martian atmosphere is so thin now remember heavier than air aircraft need to generate lift, and you can think of lift as a force that presses up on the underside of a wing, or in the case of helicopter, the underside of its Roeder's which really a rotor is just a wing that moves in a circle. This four has to be strong enough to counteract the weight of the object in order to get off the ground. If the gravity of Mars were the same as that of earth, this would be super hard to do. Because the atmosphere is so thin, you would struggle to generate enough lift to counteract the weight of the flight vehicle, but gravity on Mars is also not as strong as it is here on earth is actually a about one third of earth's gravity little more than that, so yeah, you've got a thin atmosphere, but you also have less gravity and therefore less weight. Weight to worry about so you're mass stays. The same because gravity does not affect how much mass something has, but your weight is different, so while the helicopter gadget ways around four pounds here on earth on Mars. It's going to be closer to a pound and a half. Now it would still have one point. Eight kilograms of mass because mass doesn't change, but that mass would weigh the same as object that has just point six eight kilograms of mass here on Earth, so if somehow you were able to take an earth point six eight kilograms and put it against this thing. While it's on Mars, the scales would balance out now. Considering the rotors on this thing, I'm actually really impressed. They were able to get the weight that low, because each rotor and there are two of them, measures four feet or one point, two meters in length now just remember that these rotors are mounted in the center, so the helicopter also has solar panels. Those are going to be used to charge the on board battery. It has a wireless communication system that allows engineers on earth to relay commands to the helicopter via the rover. So in this case the engineers could give pretty general commands such as how long the helicopter would operate, or how high it was to fly, but then the helicopter to do all the actual flying on its own, there will be no steering. This thing due to that communication lag. Lag The helicopter has inertial sensors, so it can tell what's orientation is whether it's upright or not. It's also got a laser altimeter. So this is essentially a laser range finder, so it shoots a laser at the grounded essentially measures the amount of time it takes for the the laser to go out from the the laser range finder hit the ground and come back up. Hit a sensor. And from that, it can determine how high up it is. It's also got to cameras on board. One of them can take color images, and the other one can only take black and white images, and it's got some heating components inside of it, which is important because it needs to stay operational temperature. Even. During the Martian night the average temperature on Mars is about minus sixty degrees Celsius, though in the daytime during the Martian summer. If you happen to be near the equator, you might reach a high of up to twenty degrees Celsius. That's twenty degrees positive, so there is a wide variation in temperatures on the planet. That's something else that we would have to prepare for if we were to. Ever. Actually you know, go there. Now NASA has made it clear that this aircraft is considered quote completely independent of the Mars Twenty twenty science mission. End Quote, which is why the ingenuity doesn't really show up. When you look at the breakdown of experiments that are aboard the perseverance, it's also described as a quote. Demonstration of technology and quote that means ingenuity isn't going to be relied upon to deliver any scientific data about Mars. It's really meant to give us an idea. If the powered flying device is a viable approach on Mars. It's also meant to prove that the Mensur Ization of technology. Technology is necessary to allow for. This will actually work, and if it does work, then that means we could see all sorts of flying drones deployed to Mars in the future to do stuff like map out areas for survey regions that are too treacherous for Rovers to manage or perform other scientific experiments. Now my hope is that all of these experiments teach us a lot more about our neighbor planet and that with this information we can plot out further missions and I think it would be truly remarkable if I were to see people land on Mars. Mars within my lifetime, and as always there are opportunities for the things we learn and the technology we develop to make all this possible to benefit us in ways, one of the coolest things about space exploration that's not really about the exploration itself is that all the technology that was once created as a necessity in order to achieve mission goals has kind of found its way into our daily lives and other implementations. We often see unanticipated benefits as byproducts, and so I think it's always a good thing for us to push back our boundaries of ignorance you. You never know what sort of things you're going to uncover along the way as for future missions. There are a couple more that I can mention briefly. One is a part of mission that is called the X. Omar's program. This one is actually led by the European space. Agency and the Roscosmos State, corporation? The plan is to launch a rover, which would not be that much different from curiosity and perseverance in twenty twenty two again two years apart. This one will be called. The Rosalind Franklin named after the British chemist NASA is contributing some of the. Components that are gonNA be used in some of the scientific instruments as part of this rover, the rover's mission is very similar to that of perseverance, primarily looking for evidence that life could have existed on Mars in the ancient past. Another mission is the aforementioned plan to retrieve the samples that perseverance is going to collect assuming its mission as successful. This one is a more long term plan because of the complexities of getting to and back from Mars, so going from Earth to Mars and back again. Really. We've only managed one way trip so far. This would be a lot harder. The current proposed timeline would have a launch of the initial vehicle. The Sample Return Lander in July twenty, twenty, six, which would actually touchdown down on Martian, soil and August twenty twenty eight. Now that's an unusually long travel time and honestly I. Don't know all the reasons for that, but the lander will have its own mini rover provided by the European. Space Agency and this rover will go and fetch the stored samples that perseverance had gathered in twenty twenty one. It will bring those samples. Samples to a rocket that is carried aboard the Sample Return Lander, and the rocket will blast off the first time in history that we will have launched a rocket from another planet, and it will then send the payload to rendezvous with another spacecraft in around Mars. That spacecraft is called the Earth return orbiter, and it will actually launch from Earth separately from the lander, it would launch in September twenty, twenty, six, a couple of months after the lander has launched, but it will arrive in orbit around Mars by October twenty twenty seven several months before the lander touches down. The sample return container from the rocket will separate L. Dock with the Earth return orbiter. Then the orbiter would prepare for the trip back home. Once earth and Mars were lined up again and the estimated return date would be sometime in twenty thirty one, so if everything goes well, it's going to take more than a decade to get those Martian rocks and soil back here on Earth for analysis. Man, this stuff is hard, but super interesting. And that wraps up. This episode about perseverance remains to be seen if the launch is going to be a success, I certainly hope it is. I plan on watching it on July thirtieth, assuming that the launch goes ahead as planned and I'm wishing everyone all the best. This is a very exciting kind of mission, and as I said before. I find it personally very inspiring that we can achieve something that is so difficult to do, and if we can do that, then we can tackle some of these problems that are enormous here on earth that seem impossible. But it may just be that we're not dedicating the effort and the resources necessary to really change things and I think that that is something we could entirely do if we set our minds to it. If you guys have future suggestions for text, episodes or rather suggestions for future tech, stuff episodes either way, the only way I know about it is send them to me, so send them to me on twitter. Handle for the show is texts stuff? H. S. W. and I'll talk to you again really soon. 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S2 E7: Space Walk
"It's so quiet out here sound doesn't travel through space county. Plus our ship has no functioning thrusters or directionals system actual. What are you doing? What are stuff all since I can't steer this? Tin can make myself. What previews that broadcasting equipment for talking to earth, telling stories as questions from kids. Let's see if we can use it to cosplays nine one one. Hello out there. If you're listening this actual onboard the colony lifeboat with. Mark Patel and three other randoms. JP catty toothpick. Right. Well, if you are listening out there, I guess you could say. We've made it interesting for ourselves shoutouts Oliver proof for blowing up his space station, leaving us to float away forever. We know he's the one who set it to explode. Who else would do it Mars face it. All of our Pruitt doesn't care if we live or. Don't you people ever get tired of listening to yourself complain? Oh, can you hear us fly on my way. I let you drift into the sun, but I guess I'm going to get you don't do any savers reason dealing wants us to be grateful caddy like he's big hero or something. I can hear your you of them. I should've known, but you didn't because you're not smart enough, hey, can we stop arguing and figure out a way to not be lost in space? More settle within twenty feet of all of you. But if I getting closer whereas collision and that would be bad for everyone twenty feet, what does that do us? I know what to do. My name is Randall read, sir, but most people call me toothpick and I've an unconventional idea isn't anything like when you're slingshot onto the roof approved rep like an angry bird, not at all. This is way more dangerous. Moving in the colony command center. So at least I have some backup. Go ahead, Julia, do you copy Julia, Julia lost Monday. She was on my trip from earth. Salo. Julia change caddy. Kate, Vic. I didn't catch your plan. Did you say Trone you'll pet. That's right. Julia. He's attached to the side of life and he has a small thruster which can't poor ship but can get him from one vehicle to the other how much trash can throw any generate estimating seven hundred mega Newton's with two thousand five hundred watts. Lovely. I mean you could tear someone behind him and whoever gets pulled by drone contented with two ships. Everyone else to Facebook using the tether rope is guide. You know. She's very smart Mars. Yes. Well, if you can help the captain with his velocity, introductory Julia all program, Joni decide who can go Joni told me and I'll tie the ships together JP you don't have considered do it Moore's just like seeing right. You ever been water skiing. JP not Aurora. Thank you. We all you want stop talking before. Change my mind. Okay. Just space. Spes contra ni. We caught this. Now I'm talking to a Trojan ovine p writing. Bring her in when she gets close to you. I'll do my best fly, but after hold the shuttle city. I'm coming. They're about to be contacted. If the show JP recharge your hand here at the door of the ship, Kripa slipping. Three. A little further. Gotcha. Good grip their cap, Titus ships stick. All right. Who's next? This is Randall read all me too. Can't let you people follow me actual. I really would like to save this moment. So I moved toothbrush. Pick. That's what I call it right. Captain permission to come on more credit. The tether started to brick Mars. We don't have much time the three year going to have to make a walk together. Okay, we got this catty. You guys ready. I'm going, I last guest up, put we right in the middle here goes what's step for women. I say Domus down, but I don't even know which way down can't believe knowing this just keeping. I don't want to alarm you guys, but there's a very large mazes speech debris coming this way, dodge it, but not too. Inside. Starting the engine hurry up. It's a giant hookup metal trying. Doom. Inside closing the door. All passengers safely on board. Ryan and faith landing. Thanks for saving us. Oh riots about this. Another time fly. Why does he call you fly Mars? Brian's got a thing nicknames. He thinks that makes him some cool. I'm not the definitive, your nickname FANG. How did she know you'd think I wouldn't figure out you were the leader? How could you do this to me? Aurora? How could you do it to Mr. Pruitt stir Pruitt is a psycho tried to kill us all by blowing up the space station. I don't think you should be calling anyone. Psycho Phang. Hugh can't actually be fending Pruitt after he had been on the planet Orion didn't have been anyone really then where is he? Something's been bothering me. Oh, Ryan. When we came over on the Prut prep space craft, you knew my friends were on board and you didn't tell me, you big, it's my place of question on that ship. You lied to my face. That's pretty shady Orion even for you. You can stay out of this rural. I'm already in it. Okay. So you do awfully know each other pretty well? Yes. No, yes. You argue like my parents. You too, like together, not together. Wait. Are you together Mars, let them explain themselves county? No. Mars as in the red planet. I can see the ground. Michigan schrool requesting clearance for touchdown. Go welcome back. Okay. Let's set this on the ground. Until the radiation gets us to work on. Not being honest, I'm actually on Mars. Isn't it unbelievable? What was that mountain? We flew past on the way in its volcano. There are thousands on Mars, although that's the biggest, I'm sorry for being a jerk. That too. It's a trap, meet the colony security team. They hear escort you an axle off. The believe you're doing this, you admitted that you're paying the leader of the martians. Can't let you leave into this ally. If not via come on man, just try and get home. We have no choice AP their enemies of the colony. I told you Mars told you. So program approved drone and may ten sidekick, free toothpick. Thank you. Julia couldn't help but notice your wheelchair. Okay. Here we go. When I was eight, those modifications yourself the self-correcting, I, I did know. That's brilliant. I'm glad you think that I'm thrilled that you'd be working with this weather centres. Truly remarkable if people on earth knew it was going on here. They miss it up somehow. I'd like that. It's onto to secret me to f- why the cool at the weather tower, but we're, it's wanted to all sorts of activity across the planet. The martians Todd grades, all natural phenomena obviously was somewhat exposed his so high above ground, but it gives us incredible accessed information, volcanic monitoring, weather fronts, storm tracking radiation levels. Did you know all the American flags placed on the moon or now white dude radiation from the sun? Yes, I did. Did. But it's nice to be reminded. Thanks. What's this monitor? It's where we get feedback from prevalent earth, believe a tone. Note the some things they can pick up, but we can't wait. What's that? I don't know. It seems they've detective strange Powell's all the way across the planet. I know I just got here, but that doesn't seem right. Colony movie nights. Now showing Apollo thirteen eighteen hundred hours in the elevator. Pruthi movie night Hough. I like karaokes Wednesdays. Here you're sleeping quarters, catty Patchett. They're pretty comfy for mattress. Plenty of recycled oxygen, bedtime ten o'clock. We're on so time here though. So technically you can hit the, hey, a little later than you would on earth, but why would you you'll be exhausted from your day job day, Joe, you're an orientation and personal safety. Just like me. Goodie. We'll have a lot on our hands now that the space station is by by there's no foreseeable way off this plant. You heard about that Honda easy. I guess everybody's heard about that by now you buddy to meet your roommate catty. Yeah, sure. Roomy gives me. I see what you did there. Well, I'll just let you get settled and later who have boats to gab 'bout hope you like. Hope you like caddy. Are you all right? Yeah, I just have to get used to all these voices. It's a lot of people in a small space. It's not easy here. Is it for anybody, what? I? It's okay, daisy. I get it. It's scary only and exciting. Everybody just needs to know someone's listening. So you're gonna break your hand. I seem them all this is how the Pru idiots. Thank us by locking up underground. Should've known, not trust Ryan. Your boy, Moore's Patel. Coming to the rescue, either roar. Because what blow this pop stand GP what are you doing here? I'm bossy you out Gershwin. It's why they signed me to security. Probably a mistake. I think you guys got a bump deal. I'm not sure. I wanna be on Mars either. Here's space spacesuits. Yes, I do. I like you. I don't know what to say. J. p. I haven't always been that nice to you. Just try to act grateful your Royal highness. So what now you go back to your camp, why you wanna come with us? I'm sticking with my friends, but you do what you need to do and you never saw me. So what do we do now? Whatever we want. Hi caddy. Hi Mars. I would just about to knock. I know freaky. You wanna go somewhere. Where are we going to go thought you might like to take in the view. Assessed gravity, climbing. It's definitely a lot harder. Mars hits your muscles still getting stronger after that sleep. Seir turnaround. It's beautiful. It's like we're in the Grand Canyon but much bigger. County? Yes. Marce I know of set when I found you guys in the space station, but I'm glad you're here. I know you are. I don't know what to believe about this place and all over Pruitt. Why did he leave that toy for me to find? Did he really bloat the space station and abandoned the kids at the colony? Maybe they don't need Pruitt look at what they're doing on their own all by themselves. Kids like us are trimming up some amazing things right now. Things that could make living on Mars a real possibility. But there's so many problems. I mean, Kelly locked up Rura are. I just meant why does she have you around her little finger Mars just like back home. She's nice one moment than manipulative. And mean the next and good old caddy is always there for you. You'll Aurora anywhere that's not true. You followed her to another planet Mars. Okay. I'm done with that. If you wanna find a way to go home, then go ahead but I want to be here. I don't wanna go any route without Hugh khadi Mars or earth. It's Yukata. It's always been you. What's happening? Give me your hand. Go cliffs crumbling. We have to get back to the colony. Is it in. Mars, why are you stopping caddy look. Okay. No. I. Best robot ever dot com.
Mars 2020 Rover Gets a Super Instrument
"If you're listening to this you obviously like podcast and you probably like music to on spotify. You can listen to all of that and what place for free you don't need a premium account. spotify has a huge catalog podcasts on every topic including the one. You're listening to right now. Uh spotify spotify you can follow your favorite podcast. You never miss an episode download episodes to listen to offline wherever you are easily share what you're listening to with your friends. Via spotify integrations was social media platforms like instagram so just search for space news pot on the spotify APP or Browse podcasts in Your Library Tab and follow me so you never miss an episode of the Space News Pod spotify is the world's leading music streaming service and now it can be your Go-to for podcasts too hello and welcome back to the space pod daily podcast about space science and tech. I'm your host will wall in this episode. We're going to be talking about the Mars. Mars Two Thousand Twenty Rover has numerous instruments on it that will be detecting numerous things but just recently engineers at NASA J._p._l.. In Pasadena California have installed a Super Cam masked unit in it onto the Mars twenty twenty over this camera laser and spectrometer can identify the chemical and mineral makeup of targets as small as a pencil point from a distance of more than twenty feet away and Super Cam is a next generation version of the Kem Kem which is on the Nasr's curiosity Mars rover right now in its been deployed <hes> in developed jointly in the U._S.. France and Spain wants France delivered the last piece of flight hardware. The instrument was fully integrated on the Mars Twenty Twenty Rover on June Twenty Fifth Twenty nineteen. Eighteen and in the spacecraft Assembly Facility High Bay One cleanroom at Nasr's J._p._l.. Massa said Super Cam has come a long way from being a bold and ambitious idea to an actual instrument Super Cam deputy principal investigator said that France and he's also said while it still has a long way to go all the way to Mars this is a great day for not only Super Cam but the amazing consortium that put it together and Mars Twenty twenty scientists we use super camp to examine <hes> Martian rocks and soil seeking organic compounds that could be related to past life on on Mars so this camera we'll be able to detect possible past life ancient life possibly on Mars from twenty feet away. Super Kim's rocks <unk> Zapping laser allow scientists to analyze the chemical composition of its targets it lets the Mars Twenty Twenty rover can done. It's cutting edge science from a distance. That's what the a payload developer manager G._P._l.. Said and it's also to be installed on the new weeks. In the next few weeks. I should say is Mars Twenty twenty sample caching system which includes seventeen separate motors and will collect samples of Martian rock and soil that will be left on the surface of Mars four return to Earth by a future mission so this is what's going to happen with Mars twenty twenty. They're going to get the rover up. They'RE GONNA fly up there from the LACI from here from Cape Canaveral in July of Twenty twenty and in a will land in the two zero crater on February eighteenth of twenty twenty one. Now when it does it's going to take samples is going to leave those samples on Mars for a future human rated mission on the <hes> Red Planet now another thing that's possible is that if humans don't go to Mars to get this stuff. They don't go there to get these samples. They could possibly send another robot. They'll be up there. They'll be ready to come back but there's no way for Mars Twenty Twenty rover to bring these samples back to Earth is it an oversight vow is more like a foresight because if they were to put this land around Mars and get a sample bring it back to Earth. That's only good for a few things but if they leave the rover up there for a sustained. Sustained amount of time so it can do a lot of science. It's possible that it could find ancient life pest life on the Martian surface which is more important than getting. These samples apple's back as fast as possible. I host my podcast on Anchor F._M.. Anchors the easiest way to make a podcast an anchor gives you all the tools that you need in one place for free which you can use from your phone or from your computer now these creation tools allow you to record edit your podcast so it sounds amazing in they'll distribute the podcast for you so it can be heard anywhere. spotify apple podcasts Google podcasts in many more in you can easily early. Make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership so download the anchor up or go to Acre Dot F._M.. To get started so Mars twenty twenty now has a Super Cam and it's gearing up to to launch from Cape Canaveral Florida in July of Twenty twenty to land on Mars in February eighteenth of twenty twenty one now. We want to say thank you to everybody. Who's been listening to this podcast please?