17 Burst results for "Mars Hill"

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

Theocast - Reformed Theology

09:23 min | 11 months ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

"Pastors not strive to keep people in the fold for goodness triumph and preach christ them in love them in such a way that we would see them restored rather than taking pride in the fact that we throw them off So that was what last thing i. It's very much related to some of the stuff. We're talking about john. You're mentioning in counseling and weeping people and all this other stuff i i was shocked at how much the and it also serves the mission so it makes entire sense because we're all about this particular mission this particular brand. Here's how mars hilda's church there was so much like gross binding of the conscience that goes so far beyond scripture. It was wild and think example. After example of what. I would call Very significant pastoral. Overreach where it's a really an abuse of the pastoral office in an abuse of the pastoral authority that the lord has given us. It's like look we deal. As pastors in the areas of the preaching of christ in the administration of the sacraments and then we deal in the areas of sin and repentance period like for us to then go and tell people like oh. Well you know you're gonna you're going to do this. You know intense. Premarital you wanna get married okay well you're going to meet with a mentor couple and this and this and this may happen and you're gonna have to tell them everything about all of your failures sexually and the whole your whole life and then they're gonna assess it and they won't tell you you can't get married you know and it's like i mean that's one example or here's how you need to conduct yourself as husband and wife or know here's what it is like women you know. There are certain roles that they need to occupy and if they're working outside the home clearly you're in san. The males failed because he's not leading the right way. I mean it's just over and over and over and over again like all these sayings that the bible doesn't speak to definitively at all yet. We're telling people that they must do it this way. That is a man. That's a way to abuse people In really three clutter on on top of the gospel. And i think that occurred sadly from what i listened to anyway. Yeah that was a huge thing. The reformers push back on. Because i was what was going on wrestling that roam the view of the church's authority was it was magisterial authority like a king. It was authoritative because they set it in a crazy asked. Then were thing right to your point. Inquisition is in the whole battle. Deal right and then on the other side. You had the anna baptists. Right who essentially spiritual anarchists. Nobody has any authority right. It's just me in my willie with my bible. Whatever i feel like it says the former pushback on both right. There is authority within the church but it is ministerial authority. The church's authority as it faithfully minister the word of god and that authority stops where the word stops. We can't bind anybody's conscience beyond where the word of god us saw ali do this when i'm counselling people. I make a very clear distinction. What i'm telling them. Hey thus saith the lord you you have to do this this is an optional thing versus where i'm giving him wisdom of like. Hey this has been helpful for people. I've seen this be get. But i can't find your conscience to do that because i don't have. That authority are not financial advisers. Refried allergists wrote people. They come to me seeking wisdom probably grow weary of. They probably know that the thing. I'm going to save for the first two to three minutes. I'm going to be super clear about you. Know what this is and where my authority does and does not lie in this situation. It's like hey this is what you want me to talk to you as your brother in christ in your friend about this particular thing. I'm happy to do that. There may very well be other people in this church. That are way more able to speak to this than me. But i'm happy to talk to you about it. Happy to process it with you But i have no unique authority or wisdom to offer here. And i'm sure people are saying that again. You know but. I think to your point patrick on john. I know you do the same thing we do need to help. Our people know where our authority lies in where it does run Because we are not just this like unilaterally just kind of making decisions for everyone in our congregations about every single thing right. God help us. Good good friend of mine. Mike draws on a podcast recently said unfortunately congregants look at their pastors if they're competent in all things and we are not competent. All things we are called to be competent in few things and that's utah to write to properly administrate the word and shepherd the flock. That's what we're supposed to be competent. And if we're going to be put in that position and this is why james says not. Many of us should be teachers. You're probably not competent to do it So it's hard when you know. We do advice for a lot of things in even when it comes down to certain areas of counseling. I'd tell people. I'm like. I'm not competent to handle that outside. The realm of the illogical issue that is domestic issue. And you're going to have. That's a civil issue or whatever i said. Yeah my My last shot here. I know we're going over time. You're gonna is For someone who's been rocked by this. My encouragement to you is I to have experienced this. I have lost mentors I unfortunately a group at a pastor's home and in the fundamental baptist world. There's been a lot of guys in the news over the years. I've seen this. I've seen this happen. Unfortunately more often than not in the news. This loves this. They love to see the fall. And i being one that is experienced People that i love go through this. It is a good and helpful. Check to remind yourself of your motivation. So if you're a pastor you're listening to this encouragement to you is these are these are healthy moments from the lord for you to examine your own motivation and ask yourself what who. How am. I being held accountable is can. Someone called me on the carpet. Who who can confront me. If i'm being arrogant and prideful and out of control and i tell my congregants all of our new members class the reason why i have you read. The confession agree to it before you join. Our congregation is that you're going to hold me accountable to this confession. And i'm going to hold you accountable to in protects both of us and This is a historical document. That's been handed down by the churches and affirmed by thousands and hundreds of people. And i think we should pay attention to those kinds of things. Now listen not every confessional. Church holds the priority of a plurality of elders and a confession you can walk into a confessional church and that you're absolutely failure if they don't see the history and the importance of what is there which justin means. We need to do a church Podcast soon which we have scheduled on confessional. Ism which are. Maybe we'll bring patrick in for that one as well. Yeah maybe at one last shot for me to. I'm sorry i'm just not wearing your down. You hit your quota. I don't. I don't wanna leave this regular without saying this like we ought not listened to a podcast like this just assuming that we had altogether and that we have the moral high on and that we have the answer to every problem that ails us. That is not a healthy posture. We ought to listen to it with humility with. We oughta grieve when we hear things like this. We should weep with those who have been hurt by this And yeah we should. We should pray. Frankly for the grace of god that he would keep us from error and from wounding other people So we don't wanna come in with that kind of condescending mindset of well if they would have just understood this this this and this clearly. This wouldn't have happened and we've got it all figured out so this ain't gonna happen here. That's we need to galatian six one right. The second part of that verse is that we ought to keep watch on ourselves. You know busby to fall. Let me point just and i. I sent this to all of my leaders and elders and training and said you guys need to listen to this because we need to make sure that we don't fall into the same trap. Amen role as as i'll say this before we go. But as paul says These old testament failures were given as an example that you two may not fall in them. I think it's helpful to see the failures others and say hey. I think we need to pay attention to the the frailty of the flesh is real and and don't harden your heart. Yeah that's and just remember. Just art the tendencies of our flesh name of wanting to look at the other people's failures to feel validated. Her indicated self justified and that is so prevalent in our culture in the church. Outside of the church. This is this is what social media exists for. It seems like times is to look at everybody else's failures and fallings so that we can say it's not me we're going to move over to the ramana podcast We're gonna be talking over there multiple things. But how does the church respond to things like this. Do we have responsibilities to go after something. Like a mark driscoll origins mcdonald. How do shepherds do we shepherd our own congregation. What if you find yourself in a church where it is. More of a dictatorship How do you handle that as well. These are what we call a little bit more intimate and what would call teen conversation. Super from onda are those who have partnered with us to spread the message of confessional. Theology reformed theology not only to strengthen our own hearts in our own communities but to really build up the local church. This is really what the designers ministry is four. If you'd like to learn more about it you can go to dot org. And that's where we have our our podcast end local and online groups to meet for the sake of edification that we might build each other up and the church so participate in. That would love to have you there. Patrick walks could have you here. We look forward to having you back george as well as jimmy. Jimmy dykes back here in a few weeks as he gets up and going these to our new home what do you call it. Regular contributors all right. We'll see you guys..

hilda john patrick wrestling ali san utah Mike james justin busby mark driscoll paul mcdonald Jimmy dykes Patrick jimmy george
"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

Theocast - Reformed Theology

07:27 min | 11 months ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

"But please know that when you stand before it on the last day you'll will know that you've had enough inter able to care for so. Don't be wigging out. You know about the size of your church and the size of your assembly and we all are prone to do that. My goodness i mean you were were three pastors three church planners here and it is so easy for your identity to be wrapped up in how many people show up on sunday. I mean that that speaks to the frailty odes in all of us right. That's not to our credit. That's to our shame. You know that we think in those ways I my thought. One one thing to guys as i'm listening to you talking. I reflect back on my experience listening to podcasts. I was struck over and over again by like you were talking about john the baptisms and all the people coming to faith and people who hated the church now in the church. Love the church. It's like look it's clear that the lord did some really great stuff through this like i don't think that can be debated because the tendency amongst evangelicals to win. There's a failure and when this kind of expose piece comes out it's like well. We need literally burn the whole thing down like it never happened like we need so distance ourselves from moscow. Going marciel that anything that ever took place. There couldn't have been from god and it's like you can't do that in a fallen world because if anything scriptures bear witness to the fact that he's always used broken vessels to advance his purposes and that's that's true it's been true for millennia and so i think it's better for us to say you know what the lord obviously was a part of this. He in spite of the sin failure here did some phenomenal. things brought people to christ. I mean stoked f a fire in people's hearts in terms of love for the church and love for their brothers and sisters. And that's the lord's doing It ought to humble us all. I mean that he accomplishes this stuff. Like through our sin and failure not in spite of report from it. No it's right born of the reform tradition. Which all three of us here spouse and hold tune believe that is biblical is a plurality of leaders. Or as we say a plurality of elders. See i grew up in the baptist world fundamentalist baptist world where it may opera Ceo the pastor is basically. You never you. Don't question him and word math and his And i i saw the the impact. I had on my own data. He was a pastor the pressure that put under him. I seeing how it can affect other churches and even though marquette elder's the it was unfortunately you can see the structure where those guys weren't keeping him accountable and it's in many ways they couldn't because the way in which structure that was set up there and i it is scary when one man has that much influence in not much power and and were even changing the bylaws to give him more exactly exactly and i don't wanna make this just you know a bash of of mark driscoll. I think it's a broader problem where we become more concerned about running the church. Like a business where you have a business model and you have bought you have Ceo wars. Yeah and and it's more about the decision making process where pastors become businessmen instead of shepherds. And yes right there about leading this movement which you can hear going back to your point. Justin that everything is about the mission everything is about. What are we trying to accomplish. Which i agree. The church should be on mission but the mission that goes handed to them by god. And it's not the transformation of city in. It's not the mean you you get loss. It's the preauthorized that's right when you look at four. I know we mentioned it. But when paul seems to give clears mission of what the church is when we function as we should we are building each other up into the maturity of the person of christ and somehow we have lost it Two weeks ago. I preach sermon on the shattered church or shattered by the church in because the church has lost. One it's history and to its mission. It runs people over. I mean mark is just an example of hundreds of churches that just run people over because if you show up and you have problems in you in you are your weak and feeble and this church is is is it's like moving somewhere and you're going to drag them down. They just don't have time for that. That time for counseling. They don't have time to carry your burden. Don't have time to sit and weep with you. The thing that paul says weep with those who weep the church should literally if if someone is hurting than we hurt with them but in today's movement. You can't do that because it's more about growth and movement and power and more campuses more more more more more. And i'm looking at going. Look at how many people you have left in the wake of your mission. How can that be the mission of the church really quick before a toss it patrick. I think it's clear that in the early years a lot of that was happening. Like based on my listening to the podcast but then as it evolved in the thing bigger it became all about the growth of the platform. And that's i think. One of the more humbling sobering things that we all need to be mindful of For sure like as we're thinking about about leading leading churches and And loving people Yeah distraught me. John as you were talking about it i agree with you and it seems like that was happening but that was lost somewhat over the course of years. Yeah yeah just a couple of thoughts to piggyback. What has been saying. One of the things i've heard over the years is Healthy things grow right and that is true in part but it depends on how you define growth first of all right. Are we defining that growth by the way that scripture does right versus our our self defined mission right in the way that we've kind of changed the mission and purpose of a church. The other thing is unhealthy. Things grow to write the wheat and the tares grow up together so to just start using the appearance of fruit as justification for doing anything essentially it it really is a manifestation of theology of glory. Right that that the advance of church looks like this. It's this magisterial glorious thing. We're going to take things over instead of fright a theology of the cross where we are simply proclaiming christ caring for each other in a broken world where we are going to have trouble where the things of the world will flourish at times and our glorious to come not here and so i think that is how we define some of those things. We talk about is so important in making sure we're constrained by scripture. Yeah i i think a couple of final observations from million and you guys maybe make yours to one. I was astonished to listen to Almost like to hear driscoll speak with pride about the number of bodies that lay behind the mars hill. Bus like any said. By god's grace it'll be a mountain when we're done And i'm like just interject on that. There's another podcast that interviews about his new church and they literally have a bus parked in the parking lot for that and visual purpose. Yeah so. I'm i'm.

marciel marquette elder mark driscoll moscow paul john Justin mark patrick John driscoll
"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

Theocast - Reformed Theology

08:12 min | 11 months ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

"Confession of faith or being confessional actually protects the mission of the church and keeps it keeps it pure and i mean the mission of the church at its most basic level as we agree on all the time is the proclamation of the gospel and the administration of the sacraments for the salvation of god's people and so ultimately it is paul in. I corinthians to like. I desire to nothing among you accept christ in him crucified. I mean that is the mission in the most basic level of the local churches. This is about christ is about him and the people who need him and then we can with the best of intentions right. We can turn into slightly redirect that trajectory that trajectory that mission and turn it into this kind of movement where we at such such a church or we under this guy's influential leadership. We have really tapped into the secret. Like we've got the special sauce that nobody else has. And we've got the corner on the market as far as how do church and we're going over here and we're gonna win the city nas to in that way it becomes the mission like as i was listening to the podcast over and over again it becomes very kind of wartime. I understand that the scriptures use this imagery but very much like no wartime paradigm of we are going into battle Perpetually it seems to win the city and the way that we're going to do that it's like yeah we're gonna preach christ that's almost assumed like we want people to come to jesus that's that's stated sometimes assumed that others were going to do that by getting people married and by people having a bunch of babies and by people buying houses. And we're gonna we're gonna get jobs in the city and we're gonna take over the city for jesus becomes the mission rather than i think some sort of back that up and always keep the heralding of christ and the loving of one another in the forefront of your mind as a leader in the church and while we're talking about that mission thing another reaction i had. That's very much related to this. As i was listening. Is i think that there was a decent amount of over spiritualism going on as i listened to mark's speak as i listened him preach and teach where literally what i mean by that is we are turning everything into a spiritual matter. We are taking things that are not inherently spiritual or even inherently moral and turning them into spiritual and moral issues and you could hear this a lot in the way that he would frame everything in terms of its war. Like we're in we're in. The midst of work is Everything is about your fidelity to christ including like alluded to earlier. Like what you're doing in the bedroom and and whether or not women should work outside the home or fill in the blank it's all about the mission and we've got to be on mission and i mean he even uses this language about firing pastors. And whatever it's like they got off mission we throw them off the bus and so everything becomes about the mission like literally everything And and i'm like man. There's no room whatsoever for just ordinary faithfulness. It doesn't seem like this is just another way to repackage that. Kind of radical stuff That apparently were called to christ and simply to trust. Jesus love the brethren love. My family be an honorable employee. Where i work. Apparently i'm still not. I might do all that and not be on mission young. I think those things are really tied together in this sense. I was in the military before i went into ministry. And if there's one thing. I took away from my military training. It was pure training in pragmatism. Because when you're in the military your job is to win and there is no box you do. Whatever it takes to win by an data sheikh's old beverage. It is goal. There is nothing else. You sacrifice everything to that goal right in. That's where some of that over spiritual ization that happens with mark up everything now has to serve the mission so you will make things. Imperatives will bind people's consciences two things that the lord doesn't in because it serves that mission because it survived and so when everything is about the mission it really opens the door to a pragmatism where we ended up with a the ends justify the means church and if you read the new testament we have the exact opposite the ends are what god does through the holy spirit and he decides what he wants to do. But we're told about over and over again is what we are to be doing and how we are to be doing it. He produces the increase. Whatever he wants to. But there's a whole lot more about the manner in which we do things and and the stuff was supposed to be doing along the way versus what we are supposed to produce and show at the end you hear multiple times in the podcast about the results right And the results really justified. The means to matter what was going on and no matter how out of control mark may have been like look. Look what we're doing and you could hear. Look in brute try you can hear the staff and the other pastors being interviewed saying it was really hard for us. I mean brought tears these days where we saw these baptisms and sell this people. Come into christ and you even hear these stories about people who wanted nothing to do with church left left the church and now back in the church and loved the church and the those those stories are hard. Because i think there are those people are genuine believers and what what can be so complicated about christianity. Is that people say well you. You're just being critical because you know your church is small and their churches big. You know what threw me for a loop in i. I remember calling justin. We talked about this. I said man when when someone asked mark who who. Who's who's a mentoring us. Kind of like watching you miss. They mentioned piper in his response was well and i'm assuming this is a legit conversation and his response was well piper searches smaller than me. How can he mentor me. And it became not about the nature and the character of a man and as a shepherd and as a guy who needs to be watched over in less t- to stumble. It became about the game of a size and how big it came. And that is it's so dangerous. We all wanna see multiple people in christ but ultimately that is god's responsibility we we all wanna see fruit. We want to see through sure. That's right and it's you know we can be. We could become discouraged about all. Well you know only had thirty people in my church or three hundred or whatever the number of can be but this is. This is the i think. The result of the modern evangelical church that a successful pastor. I think there's a patrick. You can speak into this but enact twenty nine. They kind of talk about like if you're not at this size by this year your churches failure. I'm like i'm sorry but there's nothing in the new testament that tells me where successful church needs to be at a successful timeframe and is successful moment. And when i see when i see the command of a of a pastor is still feta sheep he has attended sheep and he is to love and care for them and god gives the increase mean. Paul literally says some plant and some water and god brings the increase so if a passer is faithfully shepherding his flock by feeding them intending them then that he is a successful man. It's not his responsibility to determine what the size of a church is going to be. He cares for people he evangelized. Let god bring the increase but the problem is in a in a results driven world. That just doesn't work. You know i. I hate when i'm around other pastors when you get that question of like well. How big is your church holly. It's like why does that matter to you in and the significance of that who cares. You know it's that's who cares so many churches you've planted doug zombies lowering. It's an angel dilemma. Though johnny 'cause there's a quote from a From john brown he's a and this is back several hundred years ago puritan era where he writes to a younger minister and says. I know that you'll be tempted to be ashamed at the size of your congregation because it's so small plea.

administration of the sacramen mark paul piper justin patrick Paul doug john brown johnny
"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

Theocast - Reformed Theology

01:47 min | 11 months ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

Theocast - Reformed Theology

07:24 min | 11 months ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

"And we're gonna get to this. Maybe later the binding of the conscience in the bedroom. Like what you need to be doing. There was just times like hard to listen to So that was one. Just visceral reaction for me The other was just shocking to me. What how he spoke so aggressively antagonistically machismo style. About how look you either. You either get on the bus. You sit down. Shut up and play nice or we'll throw you off and run you over. It was just like like i rewind it. Did he really say that. Like oh my gosh bro. So those are just some visceral reactions. I had and i mean mugabe gracious to us and protect us and keep us from from era right so the the first big theological reaction guys if i can kick us off with this because i assume we may talk about this for a minute is we. All the time are advocating confessional theology and by that we mean a whole host of things but one of the things that means is that we are in a self conscious way. Trying to be unoriginal in are aiming to simply tap into the faith once for all delivered to the saints as outlined by saints through history in historic confessions of faith. And there's a lot more to being confessional than that but it is never less than that. And so i think as i'm listening to this i am struck by the what i would call the the contrast between a confessional kind of stream of thought and then what i would call the big evangelical the even kind of ethos and philosophy where we tend even. If we don't mean to do this on purpose we tend to in the evangelical church build a theology in a movement in a church on the personality in the convictions of one man. And it's like it doesn't mean right now. We're talking about marginal but literally you could plug your guy like insert your dude whether it's driscoll or whether it's piper or whether it's you know whoever james mcdonald i mean tick the guy perry noble you know any of them. It's not any particular issue or point of doctrine per se. That troubles me. It's the whole ethos of the thing where it really is. A cult of personality and this one leader effectively becomes our confession. That's right it's like what he says goes as though he is a prophet like literally conduit straight from god. And it's almost like. There's just unchecked unquestioned. Thus saith the lord authority in this leadership person this person of leadership input. It's it's frightening That's just an initial. And i think confessional ism and a confessional way of thinking about theology that's inherently corporate with people who are alive and with people who are long dead is one buffer insulator from this really dangerous place right so when episode two. I thought probably should have been what the entire podcast should have been about. loved episode to. We'll let say they know that. Yeah well they. They did Reach out and asked if we wanted to to advertise on. There should have done that. Don't know maybe we declined but The the episode. I thought was very helpful because it really exposed the problem. I know it was about mark but marks not the issue. The issue is because you know. Jd coke in their podcast on stains about stand firm. It's an anglican i. I called the conversion of the august. The he said a statement in there that the church is really fell to categorize. It's people and it's true and because we don't understand historical theology really understand the debates that have come before and the easiest way to say that his creeds and confessions are the clarity of heresy. Right this is what's heretical. How do we know that because of the debates the church has been before in almost all of the episodes to you will see every one of those men or those leaders. They aren't basing their teaching off of anything historical other than what. Their conclusion is to be an almost all of them are dispensational and so when you have guys who are coming at it from. I just what the bible says but really. It's whatever. I interpret the bible to be your confession at that. Moment goes as far back as the guy standing in the pulpit and the words you can't say that you can hold the preacher accountable to what he says because whatever he says goes And when some people say well. I don't believe in confessions. I believe in the bible yet. They're holding a bible with the man's name on it with his commentary. It which is a confession. You're waving your study bible in my face and like we're not the landscape that's right the the danger of win win the the. The guy in the pulpit. The calm the senior pastor the them and they have all kinds of names now visionary pastor visionary whatever you wanna call him he and some of these guys are. They're good teachers there faithful teachers but they were very good leaders. They're usually very engaging personalities. Yeah right. I remember listening to james mcdonald over twenty years ago when he was teaching the radio and that was very does benefited greatly by a lot of his teaching because it was verse by verse. It was helpful But what what when you have guys who there's no structure. There's nothing there that they can be held accountable to for their own sake and their own sanity. You do have the craziness that things like. James mcdonald and men. I even listening to a podcast. It was talking about The stuff that was happening liberty university and and all that nonsense that goes on over there. christianity is seems to repeat itself over and over again. When it doesn't pay attention to history one of the things. I do with my children as i sit down weekly and we worked through the confession because i want them to hear. Don't believe this guy's dad told you to believe this. You need to understand that if you believe in christ and you've been baptized into church. Here's your history. This is how we got here and this is these documents have been handed to us to make sure that we don't fall into the same traps. Mark goal in james mcdonald aren't the first leaders to lead people data path that is To destruction and they and technically they're not heretical teachers. They weren't teaching another gospel but they definitely got off track on. What was the priority of the local church which is majority. I would say anything about the rise of all marcel. The whole podcast. And we'll get into this. But when when you lose the focus and mission of the church which. I think the confessions help you do that. Man that church can go. It can go in. That's right it can go into any any gutter. That's on either side of the road. And i think we saw that with both james and i mean lots of churches. Unfortunately if you're new to theo cast. We have a free Available for you called. Faith versus faithfulness a primer unrest. And if you struggled with legalism a lack of assurance or simply want to know what it means to live by faith alone. We wrote this little book to provide a simple answer from a reformed confessional perspective you can get your free copy at theo. Cast dot org slash primer.

james mcdonald saints Jd coke mugabe driscoll perry James mcdonald Mark goal liberty university marcel james
"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

Theocast - Reformed Theology

07:17 min | 11 months ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

"Something more substantial and then comes along mark driscoll who is. He's bright. he's smart he's inciteful. he's a big personality. he's an engaging speaker. He says the quiet part out loud. He's antagonistic against the things that many of us had wrestled with and kinda hated ourselves and then man like he really taps into something and it's not a mystery historically circumstantially as to why more exploded like it did and why he became such a larger than life persona and personality in the evangelical church. And so that that definitely happened and there's a lot of fallout from that And there's a lot of other stuff that that flows out of that that we're going to get to now. But i started kick us off with that observation. It's not surprising. It makes a ton of sense when you think about it historically and logically But now let's talk. Maybe more about some other significant thoughts that we have in ways that we want interact with content Yeah it system. I had someone describe it as kind of like a car. Crash is hard to turn away. Hit hard to look away and I i remember. I've heard i had several people. Tell me about it and a really wasn't interested in listening to it. At the moment. I and then i was driving one day and i was like having to listen to. I guess i'll see what this is about. And i couldn't stop listening. Welds well produced. It is well done And then it it kind of Got to that moment. Where i i was taken back. There was so much i didn't know. I obviously aware of mark driscoll obviously aware of his ministry early on in my in when i was in seminary there was this big Debate between him and macarthur and And i was there for all of that and the I appreciate it a lot of the emphasis that you could see. More kind of regaining. Some traction as a related to godliness being standing up for women Standing up for the truth of the gospel So some of the material that. I engaged in i. It's not. it's not how i would probably say it's not how i would necessarily communicate it but i appreciated that. There was somebody who was you know how to platform and was communicating. Things that needed to be communicated and i kind of list left it at that and then as the years went on i you know. I remember reading his marriage book and that's when i went. Oh wow this. This is not good. This is and You know i at that point. I had been really engaging covenant theology and reform theology and so mark really didn't fit that that that brand. He was definitely a part of kind of the the young. Russell's the neo calvin est calvinism or the young restless reform movement which. I wasn't really intrigued by that movement. I would i was that seemed like there. They dare history of how how far back they read was was not far back enough and So when i when. I first engaged the marriage book. That's when i became pretty concerned and not really a big fan of his anymore and anybody who had asked me about his ministry. I would say yeah not not not a little concerned about how he decides to communicate things that seemed to be very very umbilical. But that's the initial reaction. When when when i started into the podcast i had no idea you know how bad it really was. And i know there's a lot of people that have been hurt in and yeah. This is pretty shocking. For a lot of people you know is that's my first initial dots. Patrick loved to hear from us. Well yes my journey with things. I grew up fairly calvinistic and abbas long process of kind of figuring out. How exactly put those pieces together. That really come all the way together. Until i went to westminster and got some of the categories that they gave me like confessional ism and ordinary means of grace and things started cutting together things like that. Yeah but until then it was kind of jumping from guy to guy within the calvin decamp trying to make sense of these different things and finding different things that resonated and kind of glomming onto that for a while until something didn't work and then find the next guy And so just was a big part of that for me. I'm in my college years and right after that Loved all the stuff that everybody else loved right. I love that. He was willing to say things that other people wouldn't say it pushed back against kind of traditional legalism right and they called. You know you can't drink you can't dance. Those kinds of things had an edge to it. It was a right. Yeah and it also wasn't the soft and fluffy right eva's stuff to it was. It seemed like a third way at a different way off for somebody who didn't have all those reformed confessional categories. It looked like this might be. This might be the thing. I've been looking for and trying to put my finger on. It really was until. I got to westminster and started to get some of those categories where all started to click in some of the stuff i saw coming out of marceau and driscoll started to rub their own way like oh. This seems a couple of degrees off. Yeah so i'm going to go. I'm gonna give just a couple of my. You guys have done this. I haven't yet. I wanna talk just viscerally for a second. And then i want to move into my first big like theological like pastoral concern in listening to this so i found that in listening to this content. I often was listening to it. When i was like riding my bike or working. Out or something and I had so many like audible out loud moments listening to this where something would be said. I mean a clip of driscoll. Speaking or something. And i had an audible reaction with my ear buds in my ears like if somebody had walked by me or something they'd be like what is that guy listening to So it hit hard right. And i'll just go and say this. I think some of my most visceral responses were In the episode to two things the episode about women John you mentioned this. I i think there's a great irony in this this driscoll thing where he early on was saying things that i think at least on the surface appear to be In attempt to protect women from week men and from men. That would harm them. But then the the heartbreaking sort of ironic turn in. This is that it seems to me that so much of what was created by mark and what he was advocating and what ended up happening at mars hill ended up being a culture that was very abusive toward women and actually ended up the meaning. Them unintentionally in very significant ways and i was greatly perplexed by so many things that i heard in particular in that episode.

mark driscoll evangelical church calvin decamp macarthur westminster driscoll Russell abbas Patrick marceau eva John mars hill mark
"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

Theocast - Reformed Theology

07:58 min | 11 months ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

"Podcast is patchy crandall. He is the pastor of covenant grace church in or covenant grace columbia as correctly known in columbia tennessee. Patrick we were able to send him down there with about sixty people back in the first week of june and you are three months officially end to church planting and so patrick. It's good to have you here. Brother tells a little about you the church and well but let me continue. Actually there's a little bit more about patrick and then we'll ask him some questions but first of all just so you guys know patrick He is a graduate from westminster. You graduated in twenty fourteen twenty fourteen and was already working in church. Fields church down in What's technically what city was that in. Carlsbad ours background -fornia messier eight years on staff santan ten years dozen. Associate there when the church was well below one hundred and part of the acts twenty nine network and has moved out here last. September joined working with me and we started men's women's bowel studies and in june. We didn't think it was going to happen in june with the pandemic but in june blurred and Are now meeting in columbia in a christian school and Up over one hundred people now so anyways that's Patrick and we'll patrick Tell us brother. One of the things we're doing now is talking about what we're preaching. So what are you feeding your sheep right now. Yeah thanks guys. Thanks for letting me join the conversation. John gets have conversations every week. He has to deal with me but It's great to be able to do this. Been blessed by the cast over the years and thought to be part of the nets. Good to have you here. Thanks bro yeah. So we've just had our three month mark since we started services out from from grace and we've been working through a fijian's a nearly think of a much better book to start a church plant with that rich theology the gospel for the first half and then the practical realities of outplays out starting chapter four. Which is what we just got to so last week we did the first part of chapter four talking about the priority of the unity of the body. Which is really good and kind of pushing back. The conc- idea that trish maturity is about strength and independence. it's actually back humility and love and gentleness and pursuing that unity was really good. And this week we move into the diversity of the church right gifts that god gives for the building up of the body in a fees and love will make another appearance. Yes it as they were since we might be at one hundred episodes. Yeah mode enough. This showed the one. Oh one this zone one hundred and one last week and we really dropped the ball and celebrating. One hundred episodes realized it after we recorded. We're like well. I mean there that went and it came and went. We didn't really say anything about it. Here we go. Yeah the The other thing is. I forgot to mention that that patrick is actually in studio with me. So this is my first ever in studio in person in the recording. Johnny lewis. Say anything about this patrick and his role and the fact that people may see him on the show from time to time. Yeah so two things while we have on here today. patrick is obviously Been a pastor for over ten years now church planting which is always fun to have church planters on the. Theo cast podcast But also he is going to be a regular contributor gear. Going forward means we'll get to see him Every so often covering certain topics. We're going to hand back on we're gonna talk about evangelism every church planters favorite thing to do and maybe how we have Misinterpreted what that means the new testament and how maybe sometimes the fear that we have is not Scripture based that'll be in a few weeks specifically about patrick on as this episode and the first one will Justin you can introduce the subject but Patrika actually was part of the acts. Twenty nine network That mark driscoll started back when it was in just early stages. I think you were in the first twenty churches. that's correct data. really i twenty thirty so bachelors. Kind of been up close and personal. Kind of watching the growth of the ministry and The field shirts that he is added excellent church Pat justin and. I both been there. We had our first. The cast live event there about two years ago which is where we met Patrick and started our conversation and not long after that. I got a phone call from him saying. Hey so what do you think about doing a church plant. Which i said sure figure out how to get the money and we'll do it somehow. He figured out how to get the money so apparently yet he's a gangster in la or something like that so those getting something like that. Hey let's let's jump into. This is important topics. Oh justin please explain why we would want to do something. It's pretty different for us. This is not an unusual podcast. So talk to us it. We occasionally do things like this. But it's quite rare to your point so the title of the episode. I'm sure it has been a dead giveaway for people We are not trying to just do something that's In the realm of click bait by talking about the rise and fall of mars hill today. the podcast put out by christianity. Today has been listened to by a lot of people That's probably an understatement. And i know even in my own local church. There are a number of individuals who are very impacted by mark driscoll by marshall church eaten by acts twenty nine and that whole movement in its early years and people have been affected by the fall of mark driscoll over the last half dozen seven years or so and so we thought it could be good for us given that everybody is currently listening to this content. People who are very familiar with mars hill are listening to it. People like myself who were not familiar with mars hill and really had never listened to driscoll preach I'm probably one of the the anomalies who encountered calvinism in the two thousand wasn't infected by driscoll very much but it doesn't matter everybody's listening to this podcast and it's it's a good listen. It's well done. The content is it's engaging it's troubling it's heartbreaking It's all of those things and people are having strong reactions to it and the three of us are not an exception to that like we're listening to it and we're think we have a lot of thoughts about it as pastors as church planters. And what we thought we would do today. We don't want to oversell what we're doing so you guys. This is not a planned episode. We haven't met this thing out at all. we've talked about a few of our main thoughts with each other before we hit record this morning. But you're being invited in on a conversation amongst the three of us as we are reacting to an interacting with the content that we've listened to that is the rise and fall of mars hill. the podcast. and so i'm gonna kick us off just very quickly with an observation about history and circumstance. It's not all that important in terms of some of the things that we want to get to so it's going to kind of acknowledge this and then move forward from here and get more theological kind of takeaways. So i i think one thing that did strike me guys as i listened to the podcast particularly episode to i think outlines is really well the pump had been primed for a movement like mars hill church and for a man like more driscoll to become what he and it became It you had the rise of the mega church to move it in the latter part of the twentieth century. Then i think the podcasts does a good job of outlining and you had a lot of people in the nineties. Who you know. That's our generation guys. I mean we came of age in the nineties disenchanted with cultural christianity disenchanted with kind of moralism. And all this kind of stuff that we had grown up within the church and we.

patrick columbia covenant grace church Fields church fornia messier Patrick mark driscoll Johnny lewis crandall Patrika Pat justin Carlsbad westminster tennessee trish nets marshall church driscoll Theo John
"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

Theocast - Reformed Theology

03:06 min | 11 months ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

"And this and that <Speech_Male> and it's those <Speech_Male> men are <Speech_Male> sitting on that board <Speech_Male> not because they're <Speech_Male> going to leave that board <Speech_Male> and then go carry a burden <Speech_Male> and shepherd and <Speech_Male> weep and administrate <Speech_Male> the gospel <Speech_Male> to those. Who need <Speech_Male> they sit on that board. <Speech_Male> Because they're good at making <Speech_Male> financial and <Speech_Male> business decisions. <Speech_Male> And i'm sorry <Speech_Male> but <Speech_Male> when we when <Speech_Male> we do elder <Speech_Male> training it <Speech_Male> needs to be <Speech_Male> getting them prepared <Speech_Male> to be able to administrate <Speech_Male> god's word <Speech_Male> and carry <Speech_Male> the sheep <Speech_Male> as they need <Speech_Male> to be helped <Speech_Male> and <Speech_Male> I don't care how successful <Speech_Male> you are at <Speech_Male> a businessman. <SpeakerChange> That <Speech_Male> doesn't mean you're a good elder. <Speech_Male> Yeah well. <Speech_Male> I mean if the <Speech_Male> ministry of the elders <Speech_Male> is the ministry <Speech_Male> of the word in prayer <Speech_Male> and they're <Speech_Male> right <Speech_Male> by word <Speech_Male> prayer oversight <Speech_Male> shepherding. That's what we <Speech_Male> do so if those <Speech_Male> things don't <Speech_Male> characterize your elders <Speech_Male> meetings. I <Speech_Male> do think something is wrong. <Speech_Male> Like if <Speech_Male> if it's not word <Speech_Male> stuff <Speech_Male> if it's not a <Speech_Male> lot of prayer and <Speech_Male> i'm not trying to sound pipe <Speech_Male> theistic and saying that <Speech_Male> that if we're not <Speech_Male> praying in <Speech_Male> a four our people for <Speech_Male> our church in our elders <Speech_Male> meetings what are we doing. <Speech_Male> And then if <Speech_Male> we're not talking about <Speech_Male> issues of <Speech_Male> oversight <Speech_Male> and shepherding whether that's <Speech_Male> individual members <Speech_Male> individual sheet <Speech_Male> that we're talking about <Speech_Male> because we're concerned <Speech_Male> you know and we're trying <Speech_Male> to pass through <Speech_Male> them and we're updating each <Speech_Male> other and praying for those <Speech_Male> people or whether <Speech_Male> we're just talking about like <Speech_Male> directions of the church <Speech_Male> like <Speech_Male> what does this look like <Speech_Male> for us to herald <Speech_Male> christ and love each <Speech_Male> other. And how <Speech_Male> can we do this in <Speech_Male> effective ways <Speech_Music_Male> to be fruitful <Speech_Music_Male> in our communities. <Speech_Music_Male> You know if that's <Speech_Male> not the kind of stuff we're <Speech_Male> talking about if it's always <Speech_Male> like you're saying <Speech_Male> john of course you gotta talk <Speech_Male> about business <Speech_Male> but if that's really <Speech_Male> what. The elders meetings <Speech_Male> are. I think <Speech_Male> that's indicative of a problem <Speech_Music_Male> agree. Yep <Speech_Music_Male> yep yeah and blue <Speech_Male> agreed. <Speech_Male> Well what a great <Speech_Male> conversation. <Speech_Male> I know we could say <Speech_Male> a lot more but we <Speech_Male> have got <Speech_Male> to get to work on <Speech_Male> other things and <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> I know we <Speech_Male> say this all the time. <Speech_Male> But i hope you understand <Speech_Male> that <Speech_Male> as the cast grows. <Speech_Male> It only grows <Speech_Male> because of <Speech_Male> what you guys <Speech_Male> are doing. It is true <Speech_Male> that this it <Speech_Male> costs money. It costs <Speech_Male> money to get the stuff <Speech_Male> done and <Speech_Male> the more a <Speech_Male> support that we get <Speech_Male> the ongoing support <Speech_Male> that we get the more <Speech_Male> we can do. So we're <Speech_Male> excited. I'll i'll even <Speech_Male> tell you guys this year because your <Speech_Male> family. We have a new <Speech_Male> logo coming <Speech_Male> and we have <Speech_Male> some new books coming. <Speech_Male> Hopefully soon <Speech_Male> we're gonna rebranding <SpeakerChange> some <Speech_Music_Male> of our other end all of our <Speech_Male> yet primers. <Speech_Male> They're going to be called something <Speech_Male> different. That's right <Speech_Male> so <Speech_Male> we're <SpeakerChange> thankful <Silence> the the <Speech_Male> <Silence> the primary <SpeakerChange> mission <Speech_Male> of <Speech_Male> separate from onda <Speech_Male> is that <Speech_Music_Male> you would find a <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> community to <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> be encouraged <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> by and <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> ultimately you <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> would find yourself in a <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> church and <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> be able to then take <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> what you've learned and <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> build up that hastert <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> and build up that <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> church that they <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> might be encouraged <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> to continue the mission <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> that's been given to horrible <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> churches so hopefully <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> you understand <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> that. And <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> i want <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> you a part of our <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> team. We want your <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> part of what we're doing <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> and we don't <Music> <Advertisement> want <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> anybody under <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> any bus ever <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> a theo gas <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> so we <Speech_Music_Male> will see you all <Music> next week. <Music>

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

Theocast - Reformed Theology

02:02 min | 11 months ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

"Weaknesses <Speech_Male> <Silence> <Speech_Music_Male> <SpeakerChange> <Speech_Male> and again <Speech_Male> it helps prevent you <Speech_Male> from putting <Speech_Male> all your help in a <Speech_Male> man who is in jesus <Speech_Male> just <Speech_Male> very quickly put a <Speech_Male> just my reaction <Speech_Male> to what you guys have. Just <Speech_Male> said. and then jonah throwback <Speech_Male> it's you. <Speech_Male> I agree wholeheartedly. <Speech_Male> I think that we <Silence> as leaders <Speech_Male> do need <Speech_Male> to be mindful of this. <Speech_Male> We need to talk about <Speech_Male> our own frailties and our <Speech_Music_Male> own frames honestly <Speech_Music_Male> right use discernment <Speech_Male> but do that <Speech_Music_Male> so that people. Don't <Speech_Male> just misunderstand <Speech_Male> that you've got it <Speech_Male> all figured out or have it altogether. <Speech_Male> That's not helpful. <Speech_Male> We <Speech_Male> as leaders <Speech_Male> need to point people <Speech_Music_Male> toward the other <Speech_Music_Male> pastors <Speech_Male> of the church <Speech_Male> right. I think that's <Speech_Male> important. And <Speech_Male> then yeah. I do agree <Speech_Male> completely with that. <Speech_Male> Last thing you said <Speech_Male> like if you're a member <Speech_Male> of the church <Speech_Male> get used <Speech_Male> to going to <Speech_Male> any one of <Speech_Male> your elders any <Speech_Male> one of your pastors <Speech_Male> because there's nothing <Speech_Male> you like <Speech_Male> super special <Speech_Male> about the guy who's the main <Speech_Male> preacher <Speech_Male> other than that. Maybe <Speech_Music_Male> he's the best <Speech_Male> preacher. <Speech_Music_Male> I the doesn't mean <Speech_Music_Male> that <Speech_Male> he's <Speech_Male> more gifted <Speech_Male> in other areas in <Speech_Male> fact oftentimes. <Speech_Male> He is <Speech_Male> gifted as a preacher <Speech_Male> and a communicator. Perhaps <Speech_Male> but the <Speech_Male> other elders round <Speech_Male> out his <Speech_Male> gifts because <Speech_Male> he's weak in areas <Speech_Male> where they're strong <Speech_Male> and you <Speech_Male> might find that you'd benefit <Speech_Male> more <Speech_Male> from one on one <Speech_Male> conversations or whatever <Speech_Male> with one of the other pastors <Speech_Male> then you do the <Speech_Male> lead guy quote unquote <Speech_Male> so just <Speech_Male> even as a like <Speech_Male> discipline yourself <Speech_Male> to go to <Speech_Male> all of your pastors <Speech_Male> for <Speech_Male> pastoral care and guidance <Speech_Male> and wisdom <Speech_Music_Male> and that <Speech_Male> helps <Speech_Male> it not just be all about <Speech_Male> this one guy. His <Speech_Male> thoughts his vision. <Speech_Male> The way he articulates <Speech_Male> things his turns <Silence> of phrase whatever <Speech_Male> <SpeakerChange> <Speech_Male> because that can <Speech_Male> happen so easily. <Speech_Male> Yeah this <Speech_Male> is <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> Boy we're getting off <Speech_Male> on a sidetrack <Speech_Male> here but i'm gonna say it anyways. <Speech_Male> A lot of <Speech_Male> elders in <Speech_Male> churches larger <Speech_Male> churches are <Speech_Male> just good businessman. <Speech_Male> And that's why they got <Speech_Male> chose to elders. <Speech_Male> They're not shepherd <Speech_Male> they're not theologically <Speech_Male> sound they don't <Speech_Male> tend to the flock <Speech_Male> and <Speech_Male> It does frustrate <Speech_Male> me when i see <Speech_Male> and hear about how <Speech_Male> elders function <Speech_Male> and <Speech_Male> it's literally <Speech_Male> just a business <Speech_Male> meeting they get together and <Speech_Male> talk about the finances <Speech_Male>

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

Theocast - Reformed Theology

04:19 min | 11 months ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

"This at our church is that we The elder take turns in doing a call to worship doing communion so they they actually get to speak to the congregation every single week. A multiple elders because they have the opportunity to give christ to them through the means of the sacramento the table. And then we all go back at to the back of the service or that. Were there to greet everyone. And we all share the responsibility meeting new people and connecting with them and encouraging them so that the congregation understands this is a team of men who are here to work together. I just so happen to carry the responsibility of focusing my attention throughout the week on counseling and the word and these men also will do this but they aren't paid to do it and you can see this in the new testament where paul even talks about. There's a there's there is a concept of those who have a job outside of the church and then there are those who are paid by the church to focus in their attention in that became according to new testament. A normal since. I know there are denominations that don't believe that has hershey. Brian dolls which is kind of a weird thing. But i think it's important that the congregation understand that the elder like i want the congress to know that those elders shepherd me and they have every right to do to call me to repentance. D call me to See my own sin in. Why why should the any elder including the speaking pastor have to be held to a standard of basically he can't fail and he can't confess a sense and he can't be held accountable. That is creating a dictatorship in really. It's it's a dangerous position. Because that pastor may have struggles in he cannot admit to them. Therefore you're going to go long periods of time where you hide sent and eventually it's going to catch you and we've seen this anytime. A pastor is in a congregation and he can't confess his own struggle in san and cannot find bomb for his soul from other men in the church eventually that sent catches up to him and it gets them.

Brian dolls sacramento hershey paul congress san
"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

Theocast - Reformed Theology

05:07 min | 11 months ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

"Maybe a letter from some town down the way. But it's like a yobs that's what you got and so in our congregations deal with us to are. They can literally access any teaching. They walked off from all over the end. They just get. It's a firehouse bombard and so i think on the one hand we can't do everything on the other hand we have to recognize the reality of what are people are taking in and so i think what you guys said is really good. I think what should govern what we engage with as pastors is what is affecting our people right. You have to know your sheep and know what is influencing them like justin. You talk about knowing people from your church or affected by this and are still affected by it and so you lean into that as a shepherd. So i can't debunk every thing. I don't have time to listen to everything. Read everything. But i do care about what my people are taking in and shepherding them on how to process that stuff yelping something else and i think also.

justin
"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

Theocast - Reformed Theology

05:15 min | 11 months ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology

"All right take to. This is what happens often when we do. Theo cast Was the the blooper. Reel out. this is this is probably why we aren't ready to go live. I am not professional enough to do that. Can oh my goodness so anyways is so glad to be here with you. We'd set a good laugh and One day in heaven. Mabel explain to you what happened. But man i got on a chain of words i couldn't get out of and it just was a mess. So we're we're here to hopefully fix that now. Go down that road but One first of all go back to some things. I did say that you didn't hear and that super thankful to have patrick. Patrick was part of the original super. Refer monda part of the team that kind of help get this up enrolling and help us with the design and the name and Helps the cast in the background as well. So i'm super thankful to not only have him part of the cast but also church planting and just as a as a friend so it's good to have you here going back to this conversation guys. They're one of the things that happens is You know reform theology. When you truly understand the five points reform theology like legitimate not calvinistic not calvin jellicoe but real covenant theology. You realize it. We're like a speck of sand next to this mountain of just how many of us relatively speaking no no. It's a small god. That's right so then you start asking we'll do we have some kind of an obligation to call out or speak back or push back or you know. How do we go after this mountain of just horrendous bad theology and i get that question a lot in you know my respond. I'll let you guys respond to them some of my responses. You know. I think the yoga's has kind of a unique platform. I mean you guys are a part of this transformation. We are trying to change churches..

Theo Mabel calvin jellicoe patrick Patrick
"mars hill" Discussed on Christian Podcast Community

Christian Podcast Community

04:19 min | 2 years ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Christian Podcast Community

"From the pursuit of one's own desires away from those things into an acceptance of what God reveals to us is what we need to do. That is first and foremost repent and believe in Jesus Christ but truly I would say that that repentance becomes the the lifestyle Christian as well if we understand abiding sense of the fallen this of our nature in this life and the fact that though we have been positionally made holy and sanctified in Christ there is the experience of for the pursuit of holiness within our within our own experience with the Holy Spirit leading us to do these things. Yeah there's nothing new about people saying that repentance shouldn't be a part of what we're doing well we're proclaiming because of the fact that that is so offensive to mankind. That's one that's one thing we've been seeing that in in evangelical for a long time. What concerns me is that I'm hearing that within quote unquote reform circles. There is this rise. The idea that we shouldn't speak of repentance. I I suppose maybe some of these folks have never read. Jc riles holiness. God or something I don't know but and then even the conversation that you're not truly reformed if you are holding to this to this verbiage of repent and believe and I just want to make sure that I was on base with it. You know it seems very silly because it seems like an oversimplification that repentance as merely just change your mind okay. I can get that. I can get that part. But what exactly is the result of this? Change of mind is changing on that leads to a change action because we've been changing heart So that's where I am with it and some people said to me. Well you know you have often said that the Gospel is not suggestion is a command and the command is repent believe. That's what Paul Preaches on Mars Hill. That that's fundamental as far as I can understand Calvin and the reformed certainly I understand. I can't do that apart from grace. I get it and I get that that Romans eight says that the individuals not the individual is still going to flesh cannot do what is pleasing to God and submit love. God I get all that but I don't know who the elect are right and so what what. What message am I supposed to communicate to? I am to communicate them to them. God's command to repent and believe and I have to leave it up to God as to who's going to respond to that to that commitment right and so you know I've I've heard Just winding down with you have heard the argument that people to repent. They're going to do that. Anyways will the same can be said about believing There's no need to do that. Both of those are granted by God. Believe ten believe in the argument that from that it sounds so silly well. At the time he's speaking to the Pharisees and at that point they did not believe in Jesus was they need to have a change of mind about Christ and believe in him. Well but but but I think you get that from from Paul on Mars Hill. I think you get that from the well. Actually there are places where repent and believe is just generally delivered to the people. As a whole. Not just the Pharisees. So there's many things that we have to repent of including our traditions. Yes certainly rejection of Christ but it is a general reality that if you accept a reformed anthropology that all men of sin or rebels than they need to repent of that sin. Yeah there's an official and then of hearing that. Why would you tell somebody to repent? They're going to do that. They believe any ways. You're telling natural man to do something. They can't do well whenever you tell them to. Believe you're doing exactly exactly so you're trusting the spirit of God to work the miracle regeneration moment or the other. Yeah and then on top of that. She had taken consideration that God commands all men everywhere to repent there. And that's a command that I think we have to consider and still carry out so Dr White. Thank you very much for answering this I I will go on record to say that I do believe that it is still repent and believe the Gospel Dr White. Thank you very much for taking this. Tom And Ladies and gentlemen thank you for listening. If you were by this conversation. This is James. Watkins led the five Solas podcasts..

Mars Hill Paul Dr White Jc Calvin Watkins Tom James official
"mars hill" Discussed on Newsradio 700 WLW

Newsradio 700 WLW

14:23 min | 3 years ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Newsradio 700 WLW

"He breathes into the nostrils of a tadpole Dr Paul in talking to the intellectuals on Mars hill said that god gave that fully manned that earthy man breasts so number three they agreed on something else Dr Moses said that the man he gave brass became a living soul and guess what Dr Moses agreed he said on Mars hill that god gave the earthy man life then there was a fourth item one which these two great doctors agreed doctor Moser said that god called the man he made Adam Dr Paul called him the same thing he did call him Charles or John or mark Dr Paul said god called earth the man he made the first Adam they agreed on the creation of man again we note that there was not only unity on the creation of man but there was unity also the Trinity and when it came to the matter of salvation it was god the father's idea to send Jesus to die on the cross god said the seed of the woman show bruise the head of the serpent and the servant shall bruise his heel god said somebody has to go and redeem the human race god sent Jesus to do it we know that Jesus agreed with this plan because of that great summit meeting when the mount of transfiguration Moses and Elijah spoke to Jesus obvious to cease that he would accomplish at Jerusalem Jesus willingly laid down his life for us so god the father and god the son were agreed as to who would come and die for salvation not only that but there was unity also in the matter of salvation but there was unity also in the humanity and the divinity of Jesus in this prayer Jesus prayed the father that he had sent him when Gabriel made the announcement of Jesus to merry he said the power of the most high will overshadow the where for the holy thing that is begotten shall be called the son of god Jesus was human in the flash he was divine in the spirit and the word became flesh and dwelt among us there was unity in his flesh and the his spirit his flesh always submitted to the will of the divine sometimes the flash was in the ascendancy and other times a spirit when Jesus prayed in the garden of guess somebody it was his flesh that said let this Cup pass away from merry but it was his spirit that said not my will but thine be done and the flesh agreed with what the spirit said after fasting forty days the devil tempted him to turn stones in the bridge no that was a great temptation his flesh wanted to grab that stone and turn it into a loaf of bread and eat it but it was his divinity that said man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of god and the flash agreed with the divine it was a great temptation when the devil took him to the pinnacle of the temple and ask him to jump the flash said jump jump the spirit said thou shalt not make trial of the lord thy god when the devil showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them what a temptation the devil showed him the United States of America he showed him the statue of liberty he showed him the rotunda he showed him a country from the prairie to the purple mountains majesty from sea to shining sea and say Jesus it's all yours you could have it if you worship me the Fleischer said take it but the spirit said the OSHA worship the lord our god and him only shall thou server there was unity with the flesh and the spirit in every temptation so they could be said he was tempted in all points like as we are yet without sin but not only were very unity in the humanity and the divinity of Jesus there was also a unity between Jesus and the apostles in their view of the New Testament Jesus prayed I have manifested under them the word which thou hast given me father and they have kept our word the apostles all agreed for Jesus said I have given them by word and they receive them to make sure the apostles gave the right message Jesus told them that when the Holy Spirit is come he will guide you into all the truth and bring to your remembrance all things that I said unto you Jesus did not trust the finite memory of the apostles Seoul he promises to send the Holy Spirit to remind them what he said god in his Providence is bay shore when we read the Bible we are reading actually the word of god it was Paul who put up this red flag regarding other books to claim to be of god when he said if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached let him be accursed so not only words our unity with the Trinity and the apostles as to what the word of god was what the error was unity between the father son and Holy Spirit in the matter of evangelism Jesus cities preparada father is now did send me into the world even so satire them into the world the father sent the son and the son sent the apostles they were agreed on evangelism what Jesus said the apostles to do is spelled out clearly he told them to go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved and he that believeth not shall be damned the job of the church is saving souls he also gave the apostles credentials when they were inspired he said they could speak in tongues take up serpents if they drink any deadly thing it will in no wise harm them and they went forth and preached everywhere old saying the lord the lord working with them confirming the word but the signs of followed says the word was confirmed by those American my regular signs the need for that kind of miracle is passed the word does not need to be confirmed again some think the Americans are still needed but they are choosy as that which ones they want while they claim to speak in tongues they would not touch a rattle steak with a ten foot pole then there's no way they would drink poisoned with a stomach pump handy if we need any credentials today if the while we bring this broadcast to thousands of you our credentials are Matthew mark Luke John Peter Paul James and chewed because they all agreed with Jesus there was unity in the matter of evangelism and now there is also unity in the matter of the judgment day the decision was unanimous as to who would preside on the judgment day and this prayer Jesus said the father had given him authority over all flesh that to all whom thou has given me I should give eternal life call on Mars hill inform them that god had appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness through that man whom he hath ordained and as much as he has a raised him from the dead Jesus also said that he would be the judge on that day when John records the words of Jesus when he said for neither does the father judge any man but he has given all judgment unto the son that all may honor the son even as the art of the father he that honor us not the sun onerous not the father of that sent him according to Jesus you cannot order at the heavenly father unless you honored Jesus at the same time the St Louis your verification as to whom it is I shall sit on the great white throne as recorded by John in revelation from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away and there was found no room for them then there is that find live it where we learn that if any was not found written in the book of life he was cast into the lake of fire there is unity in heaven as to who it will be who will judge us all then again there was not only unity Oster who would be the judge on the judgment day but there was unity in the kingdom of darkness Jesus mentioned this one he said in his prayer I have given them by word down the world hated them because they are not all the world even as I am not of the world I pray not that touches take them to the world but that's outside should keep them from the evil one the devil is opposed to everything in the program of the salvation of the world and he is not alone every area of the kingdom of darkness is United in the program to damn your soul all nations several areas in the devil's kingdom principalities powers rulers of this world darkness a veritable host of wickedness in high places also on earth it's true king Herod and pilots were enemies but they United in their efforts to crucify Jesus the Pharisees and Sadducees were enemies yet very United in their desire to crucify Jesus Jesus did not want to take the apostles of the world at that time and a similar manner the lord does not want to take the church or the world at this time if the lord would remove the church today from the world before his second coming and leave the world to its own devices the earth would drown in its own blood we're all aware of what happens when there is a disruption of civil authority vandals began to loot tend to rob and rape take the Bible the Holy Spirit and the individual Christian all the world and the world would split wide open like a rotten apple when Noah and his family went into the ark guard waited for seven more days and then he shut the door and the flood came when the angels led lot his wife and two daughters of Saddam there were no more righteous people left in Sodom and Gomorrah and the far feral and burned up the homo capital of history if the church was suddenly taken out of this world the effect would be the same as if all the lights were turned off the effect would be the same as if all the purifying soul toward it moved the earth and all of its inhabitants would rocked K. them of doctors is just as regal as the physical nations the devil has convinced millions that he does not exist the only reason you cannot see the devil and many of the demons that surround us at all times is because they live in a different frequency turn the radio on like you have now on the AM dial and you may hear this program if you turn the switch to the FM dial you may get another program at the same place on the dial as the A. M. station it all depends on the difference of the frequency if we could somehow switch from the physical frequency to the spiritual frequency you would see the devil of a host of daemons leering at you forked tongues and they're cold blooded dies with that model of what Gary is concentrated on you they hate you with a hatred that can only come from the depths of the bottomless pit however in that spiritual frequency the question would also see a host of the angels of god of whom the scripture tells us are ministering spirits sent forth to do to to administer them who shall inherit salvation but not only was our unity in the kingdom of darkness there is also unity among the followers of Jesus that Jesus prayed for Jesus prayed not only for the apostles but all them that we believe on him through their word that they all may be one as thou father are didn't re and die in the that the world may believe that thou did send to me Jesus prayed for the unity of all his church that prayer was answered on the day of Pentecost fifty days after the resurrection the apostles that they were baptized in the Holy Spirit and given the power to speaking about seventeen languages that were.

Dr Paul fifty days forty days ten foot
"mars hill" Discussed on Newsradio 1200 WOAI

Newsradio 1200 WOAI

05:17 min | 3 years ago

"mars hill" Discussed on Newsradio 1200 WOAI

"Also here or believe they heard from that creature again that same night. Yeah. Corresponding with that they heard something that I founded like a loud growl. And then something that. You know, it was like a claiming sound or something coming off Mars off hill, and it got louder and louder than growling and claiming and definitely something that frightened them. You know at that point. And if I if I'm remembering from your book correctly, the top of Mars hill where the sound was coming from. There was some sort of a water reservoir up there. Is that was that the the source of the sound is if something or someone was I don't know banging against the reservoir or throwing rocks at the reservoir. Right. Yeah. There was in in, you know, from the sound of of what they heard in in the claiming sound they surmise that. You know, it could have been something hitting on that reservoir. You know in when combined with a loud growling sounds that. They had heard. I mean, it just was, you know, something that they? Scared everybody. Now at this point is is Edgar Harrison contemplating going up to the top of Mars hill to investigate or what is what is he decided to at that point? Yeah. You know within this time period, you know, Edgar head sorta gone up and down the hill there, and certainly, you know, having, you know, being that it was a wooded area and creature had been seeing their, you know, naturally assumed that, you know, could be living there roaming on Mars hill. So he had gone up and sort of investigated, you know, up and down is kind of some, you know, bang trails that went up behind the house, you know, things that kids won't around on. And so he had followed those around just looking for footprints or signs of of anything, and he would go up there with as as things for grass, you know, some reporters, and and other people would come to town, and he would take them up the hill, and they would you know, investigate that. And at this point, I guess. We cue the pitchforks. And the torches it's like a scene like from something like Frankenstein's monster. This mov assembles tell me about that. Right. You know the evening when when they saw the lights and heard the growling sound. I mean, it was so loud that the miss Harrison just came out of the house with all the kids in tow and screaming Edgar, you know, let's get outta here. Get the kids in the car, you know, the kids weren't a frenzy. And so by this time, most of the other parisioners had taken off, and you know, got got now there's well. And so the Harrison's begin to take off down the street and their car, and as as they were going, they basically, they're they're street dead ended in Mars hill. So going out of their they look and there basically a mob of, you know, thirty forty people coming up towards the hill. You know, alarmed at what they were hearing all the neighbors had gathered together. And according to the story, miss Harrison sort of leaned out the window and said something like they're coming, and you know, the mob just. It all started running. I mean, it it's it's like a scene out of a movie just couldn't even made this stuff up. And this just was, you know, kind of like you say that the torches and pitchforks the villagers are coming for the monster. And it's something frightening happens and she screams. They all run the other way. So this is just things that would be recorded in in the old newspapers as it progressed, massive stereo, perhaps or did they all here and see something? That's I guess the question for the ages, but it's lucky cow. No one got hurt in in. I mean, it could've gone south really fast. Lyle Blackburn is with us the author of Momo, the strange case of the Missouri monster, and we will open up the phone lines at the top of the hour. Take questions and comments, and let me ask you as we head into the break. Very quickly to your mind. Does this fit into sort of a typical Bigfoot sasquatch sighting? Or is there something else going on here? Well, you know, in in some ways, it it's indicative of Bigfoot sightings, you just sort of a general, you know, in upright hairy creature that people see, but when you add in the extra high strange things with the lights being seen, and you know, people would later hear disembodied voices, and you know, the growling and all this other stuff going on.

Mars hill Edgar Harrison miss Harrison Missouri Lyle Blackburn
"mars hill" Discussed on KTOK

KTOK

05:26 min | 3 years ago

"mars hill" Discussed on KTOK

"And so that was, you know, something that disorders started adding to the air of mystery going on there and in the small town, and did they also here believe they heard from that creature again that same night. Yeah. Corresponding with that they heard something that I founded like a loud growl. And then something that. You know, it was like a claiming sound or something coming off Mars off hill, and it got louder and louder than growling and the claiming and definitely something that writing them, you know, at that point. And if I if I'm remembering from your book correctly the top of Moore's off he'll where the Sam was coming from. There was some sort of a water reservoir up there. Is that was that the the source of the sound is if something or someone was I don't know banging against the reservoir or throwing rocks at the reservoir. Right. Yeah. There was in in, you know, from the sound of of what they heard in in the claiming sound they surmise that. You know, it could have perhaps been something hitting on that reservoir. You know in when combined with a loud growling sounds that. They had heard. I mean, it just was, you know, something that they? Scared everybody. Now at this point is is Edgar Harrison contemplating going up to the top of Mars hill to investigate or what is what is he decided to do at that point. Yeah. Within this time period. You know, Edgar head sorta gone up and down the hill there, and certainly, you know, having, you know, being a wooded area, and the creature had been seen their, you know, naturally assume that you know, could be living there roaming on Mars hill. So he had gone up and sort of investigated, you know, up and down as kind of some bang trails that went up behind the house, you know, things that kids won't around on. And so he had followed those around just looking for footprints or signs of of anything, and he would go up there with as as things for granted, you know, some reporters, and and other people would come to town, and he would take them up the hill, and they would you know, investigate that. And at this point, I guess we cue the pitchforks. The. Torches? It's like a scene like from something like Frankenstein's monster this mob. Assembles tell me about that. Right. Well, the, you know the evening when when they saw the lights and heard the growling sound, I mean, it was so loud that the miss Harrison just came out of the house with all the kids in tow and screaming at Edgar. You know, let's get outta here. Get the kids in the car, you know, kids, we're in a frenzy, and so by this time, most of the the other parisioners had taken off, and you know, got got now there's well. And so the Harrison's begin to take off down the street and their car and his as they were going. They basically, they're they're street dead ended in Mars hill. So they're going out of their they look in. There is basically a mob of, you know, thirty forty people coming up towards the hill. You know, alarmed at what they were hearing all the neighbors had gathered together. And according to the story, miss Harrison sort of leaned out the window and said something like they're coming, and you know, the mob just. It all started running. I mean, it it's it's like a scene out of a movie just couldn't even made this stuff up. And this just was, you know, kind of like you say that the torches and pitchforks the villagers are coming for the monster. And it's something frightening happens, and she screens mail run the other way. So this is just things that would be recorded in in the old newspapers as it progressed, massive stereo, perhaps or did they all here and see something? That's I guess the question for the ages, but it's lucky cow. No one got hurt s- in in it could've gone south really fast. Lyle Blackburn is with us the author of Momo, the strange case of the Missouri monster, and we will open up the phone lines at the top of the hour, take questions and comments. And I mean, let me ask you as we head into the break. Very quickly to your mind. Does this fit into sort of a Atip Bigfoot sasquatch sighting? Or is there something else going on here? Well, you know, in some ways, it, it's indicative of Bigfoot sightings, you just sort of a general, you know, upright hairy creature that people see, but when you add in the extra high strange things with the lights being seen, and you know, people would later hear disembodied voices, and you know, the growling and all this other stuff going on.

Mars hill Edgar Harrison miss Harrison Missouri Lyle Blackburn Moore
"mars hill" Discussed on The Steve Deace Show

The Steve Deace Show

05:29 min | 3 years ago

"mars hill" Discussed on The Steve Deace Show

"And with this particular listener is sharing with us in the mail, and what several of you who share shared your previous life experiences regrets it cetera along the exact same lines is. While there is no more condemnation. With God's forgiveness. We can't escape the consequences of our actions. We may escape the terminal condemnation for them. Because God through his son paid the penalty for us in that regard that we deserve. But the, but the natural consequences of those actions are not undone time is not reversed. Superman doesn't fly around the earth backwards in order to rectify wrong. The consequence remains the condemnation is gone. You have to carry that guilt with you forever. Praise God for that. But the consequences remain. And here's this listener saying I'm living. I'm gonna live with those consequences rest of my life praise Jesus I'm forgiven. But I think you can even tell when you just heard me reading the Email. There's a there's still a little hole there. In the heart. That a grandchild. That would have brought you a lot of joy won't be able to bring. Because we made these decisions without realizing how decisive they might be. And I think we're gonna need to do more of this in our activism. I think we're going to need to make this a much more, and I wouldn't say emotional, I would say personal. A much more personal plea to the culture. Do you in have you been made aware? Of the consequences that can ensue from this. I'm talking about statistics or studies I'm talking about. Here's what happened in my life. And then you share what happened in yours? This is something I think is missing from a lot of our activism, and I think it's a strategic evolution. We're gonna have to make in the area in which we are now entering into. We are entering into a pagan era. You are Paul at f- asus. Mars hill. You are in the midst of a pagan culture, and it's you're not gonna be able to just throw dog whistles out there for the silent majority anymore to come hither the first Tuesday in November that's not gonna work. You don't have the numbers. We have to win more people over. And you and people are one over I love philosophy. I love data. I used them a ton in my show. I think there are friends. And they can be used to help you win the case. But inevitably human beings are human beings. People are people they're not algorithms or formulas. And I think we're gonna have to learn how we're going to share the personal touch to reinforce the studies in the watch in the philosophy that we often like to cite as conservatives. I'm not talking about poorly emotional appeal on talking about a relational appeal. That's what I'm talking about a connection. Been where you are. I know what you're thinking right now. My my life is not a pleasant valley Sunday. I'm not a stereotype, and I wanna make sure I clarify something from yesterday's conversation as well. This is from Dwayne and several emails along this line to says I watched yesterday, and I can understand what you guys are saying about loving, your enemies. But I I also think that I can fight these people that believe in killing babies with all I have this is a spiritual fight. We are in the pro choice. People are being deceived. I think your anger the day before was justified, and that we need to do whatever we can to stop this. I do not hate them. But they need to be defeated. I think at this way. If I saw someone standing over a baby ready to kill it. I would not contemplate how I need to love them and think of my sins that would he quit to what they want to do. I would do everything in my power to stop them. I think your way of thinking today shows weakness to the pro-choice side, we've all stood by too long and watch the. Order of millions of babies. First of all. Loving your enemies. Weakness is inherent to the human species. Many of us. I mean, we don't have to was the last time. You heard parents say. Maybe your parents said this to you you ever have your parents such aside and say, hey, Honey, I need you to be a little bit weaker. I need you to be more subservient..

Jesus Mars hill Honey Dwayne Paul