5 Episode results for "Marissa Lagos"
Proposition 20: Criminal Sentencing and Parole
"Cutie. Hello Hello, happy Friday everybody Olivia Allen Price here, and you're tuned into our bay curious prop fest series twelve statewide propositions twelve days. Let's go. Proposition twenty walk back some changes made to the state's criminal justice laws over the past decade. Here's how you'll see it on your ballot. Proposition twenty restricts parole for nonviolent offenders authorizes felony sentences for certain offenses currently treated only as Misdemeanors Andrew Choirs DNA samples from people convicted of specified misdemeanors. Yes. This one has a lot of pieces to it. One Pack it all today on the show. It's prop twenty criminal sentencing prop. Support for Bay curious comes from Sierra Nevada brewing company. No matter how people enjoy the outdoors Sierra Nevada, wants to help make sure their voices are heard Sierra. Nevada's supports protect our winters and it's make your plan to vote campaign. Learn more at Sierra Nevada dot. com. Hey everyone just a quick programming note. In this episode, we discuss violent crime including rape. Here to talk prop twenty with us is Marissa Lagos Cutie politics correspondent and Co host of the political breakdown. PODCAST Rita Morning Livia. So what is prop twenty about? Why are we even voting on this? There has been a lot of reforms in California over the past decade or so around criminal justice and most of them were really aimed at reducing the prison population and giving people more opportunities for rehabilitation was sort of a reversal of the tough on. Push that we saw largely in nineteen nineties and a lot of those changes have been very controversial among law enforcement. They were not pleased particularly with two ballot measures that voters passed in twenty, fourteen and twenty sixteen, and I would say kind of top level proposition twenty is aimed at rolling back some of the key portions of those ballot measures and essentially making it harder for a lot of people to get out of prison and potentially easier for DA's to send a lot of people to jail. Now, let's get into some of those ballot measures because I feel like I was just voting on this. You know during the last presidential election you know so. So what those reforms and you know what happened there? Yeah. I mean in two thousand and eleven as Governor Jerry Brown took office. The US Supreme Court ruled in favor of a very long standing lawsuit that essentially challenged California's the way it was treating prisoners and with the courts found was that essentially California's prisons were so overcrowded that it was resulting in inmates dying at one point at a rate of like one person day I believe in the court said you California have to find a way to reduce the number of people in your prisons or essentially the courts are just going to open up the doors and let prisoners out you know willingly and so the state. Kind of embarked on a series of reforms. The first one was passed in the legislature in two thousand eleven. It's called realignment. It was kind of the building block for some of these later reforms, right? Yeah. So a lot of us will probably remember realignment that is when the state changed the punishment for many crimes so that people convicted were sent to jail instead of prison but Maria that. was just the beginning of reforms right? It's sort of parallel to that. We have seen a real awakening around racial justice in Criminal Justice in California. It started to really shift public opinion and the kind of tough on crime mantra that really dominated the day during the nineteen ninety s started to slip and I think voters were more willing to take a chance and try some new things because. A lot of people felt like what was being done wasn't working and we were just kinda burning up public funds. All right. So public opinion is is moving on some these big topics. How did they take advantage of that to bring about some reforms? Yes. A I there was about measure in two, thousand, fourteen this was proposition forty seven. It essentially made a lot of felonies misdemeanors. So if you had a simple drug possession arrest on your record, if you were caught shoplifting less than nine hundred dollars with merchandise instead of getting charged with a felony, you could get charged with a misdemeanor. Alright. So that means fewer people are being sent to. Prison which should mean a state save some money here. Right what happens to the extra cash? I'm also had a provision saying we're GONNA take the savings from those lowered prison and jail populations and actually put them right back into programs that will hopefully help prevent future crimes by supporting communities and kids and taking people who have been in prison and by spending more money on victims services. So this was really an attempt to sort of shift the narrative in actual money flow away from incarceration and back in two rehabilitation. All right. So that's one set of reforms but you said there were more. The second measure was actually written by Jerry, Brown I think there was a sense that they had gone as far as they could in the legislature to help reduce the prison population and they needed to ask voters to change the law so that far more felons could go before the parole board earlier. So this was a measure that really allowed a broader class of prison inmates to. Potentially apply for rehabilitative programs and then asked the parole. Board to release them early didn't guarantee any early releases, but it has resulted in thousands of inmates getting out you know in some cases years before they would have even been. To ask for that release. And then we get from those to where we are today voting on prop to our criminal sentencing prop Mussa I understand that prop twenty would change for things. Let's start in on what it would do. Broadly, this is a measure written by law enforcement from their perspective fixing some of the problems with those earlier reforms it would reduce the number of people eligible to go before the pro board I bringing in a whole bigger group of crimes sort of. Doubling the list of people that are just ineligible to ask for early parole. Okay. That's the first. What's the second thing? It does it would also make it a lot easier to charge people with felony theft by lowering backs a dollar threshold. So this would say instead of nine hundred dollars, it's at four hundred and fifty dollars and the third thing. It would also kind of I would say Thai the border parole hearings hands a little bit more by. Requiring them to look a lot more broadly at an inmate's history when they're considering release and finally, and I would say, this might be the least controversial aspect of it. It would reinstate DNA collection for people who have been convicted of a a long list misdemeanors right now if you. If, you had a misdemeanor conviction, they do not collector DNA and put it in the state and federal database. And I know you've been talking with folks on both sides of this issue, you know give me a broad sense of what people are saying on the side. So this is broadly supported by the kind of typical law and order groups that you might expect to be pushing harsher criminal sentencing laws. We're talking police unions were talking some of the more conservative prosecutors in the state even one victims group that has really was really instrumental in the nineties and pushing things like three strikes. They basically say that the reforms of the. Past decade or so went too far violent offenders are getting out of prison who shouldn't be one of those earlier reform measures that past relied on a list that the state has that delineates which crimes are considered. Violent people convicted of those violent crimes were not eligible for early parole but if someone's crime wasn't on that list they technically were. So that is a pretty limited list. It doesn't include things like murder and rape but there's some specifics within the code, Lake Rape of an unconscious person isn't included on that list. And so Richard Temple, the consultant for the Yes side says that essentially voters were misled by prop fifty seven in some of these other reforms. It was designed for nonviolent offenders. That's what voters were told. That's what the governor promised. Even afterwards, if there's any situation, his is administration would fix it by regulation both did not happen. So there were violent crimes that under California law are not classified as violence, and therefore these criminals allowed early release, which is not what provisions seven promise I think folks pushing some of these earlier reforms didn't talk very deeply about what which statute would be considered a violent offense versus which. Wouldn't but the parole board still has a lot of discretion here. It's largely made up of former law enforcement officials and with the other side would say to that is well, it's very unusual that you would be in prison for just say rape of an unconscious person. There's probably other charges and the Parole Board is GonNa look at the whole picture, not just go kind of by the Nitty Gritty of what the statutes say and what about those who are lining up against. It, what do they think? So the biggest names, governor, Jerry Brown, who helped draft some of these earlier reforms that this would roll back. But this is kind of also a WHO's who of the democratic establishment including the current governor. Gavin newsom and and additionally a lot of the public employee unions and other big kind of left leaning Labor organizations There's also some groups representing victims that are against this measure, and these are folks who have tried to kind of reframe. The discussion around who is a victim? Who is a survivor of crime they more represent communities of color people who maybe live in places where yes they've been victims of crime but their family members have also been accused of crimes and they see healing needs to happen at the community level and worry that locking more people up won't actually help victims but actually hurt them by taking money away from victim services. I. Think I find it pretty interesting that some of the. People that you spoke with are victims of crimes that I would have assumed would have been in favor of keeping people in prison longer, but they actually come out on the other side of things. Why is that take some like Sephora a consent she's executive director of freebies place. It's a domestic violence shelter she was on a call recently where she talked about being a survivor of child sexual abuse and domestic violence, and you know she felt like the idea that sending somebody who harms you to prison is not actually a long term solution, it provided temporary. Sense of safety win the person that caused me harm wasn't jail but it didn't change their behavior and where the healing really came in for me is from the services from counseling from shelter from case management and also the rehabilitation services of those that caused harm I think that they are really a new voice in this whole debate that has been dominated for a long time by people who really favored harsher approach. Gloated about the spending on this campaign what have you seen so far proposition twenty as being far outspent in out raised so far by their opponents, they have a about a and a half in the bank and have not really raised a ton of money this year on the other hand, you have you governor Jerry Brown putting a million dollars in. To defeating this measure, you also have some foundations and other sort of good government and civil rights, groups who put money into it, and so the No side actually has over five million dollars in the bank and I think we're going to see them being like ramping up their campaign, right? Well, course logos. Thanks for your help my pleasure. Quick Recap vote? Yes. On proposition twenty says you want to take early parole away as an option for some crimes re-categorised certain types of theft and fraud crimes. So they could be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony instead of just as a misdemeanor and require DNA collection from people convicted of certain misdemeanors. A No vote means you think the current laws should stand. We'll be back Monday with more curious professed. Some big ones are still on deck props that deal with rent control, how companies like Uber and lift classify their workers and whether or not California jails should use cash bail. Bakers prop vest is produced by Trish Warts, wraps bait and me Olivia Allen Price with help from all of our smart friends in the K. Q. E. D. Newsroom. You can find audio and transcripts of his episodes at bay curious dot org slash crop. Best. You want to learn more about the local measures on your ballot around the bay area. I highly recommend Kennedy's voter guide. You can select the county where you live and see all sorts of interesting stuff about what's on the ballot there find it at K. Q. E. D. Dot Org? Slash elections. Bay Curious is made in San Francisco member supported cake. Thanks, so much for listening and I hope you'll have a great.
Proposition 25: Cash Bail
"Cutie. Hello Hello Y'all we have made it. Today is the final episode in our bay. Curious Prop Fest Ceres I'm Alan Price. Here we go. Cash bail has long been criticized for allowing rich suspects walk. While keeping low income suspects behind bars proposition twenty five could bring an end to money bail. Here's how old read on your ballot proposition twenty five with replace the money bell system with a system based on determination of public safety and flightless. It also limits detention of a person in jail before trial for most misdemeanors but is the alternative proposal more equitable on this final day of Baker is professed we take a look at proposition twenty, five replacing cash bail. Support for Bay curious comes from Sierra. Nevada brewing company no matter how people enjoy the outdoors. Sierra Nevada wants to help make sure their voices are heard Sierra Nevada supports protect our winters and it's make your plan to vote campaign. Learn more at. Sierra. NEVADA DOT COM. Political correspondent Marissa Lagos is covering prop twenty five for cake. And she's also the CO host of the podcast political breakdown. Welcome Russa Pale, Libya. I. Can you take us through how the cash bail bond system works in California now? Yes. To do this I am going to make you an accused Felon Olivia Allen Price Right. So you're walking down the street in San Mateo County. You, get arrested on suspicion of possession for sale of a controlled substance. This wouldn't be like you have a little wheat in your bag. This would be like maybe you got a bunch hair win or they think you do. The bill for that is going to be set at twenty five thousand dollars just by the schedule that exists in San Mateo County. So the officers would arrest you and either you would have to over twenty five grand to the county to secure release or possibly depending on how big of a drug dealer they think you are. They might make before a judge who could either lower or increase that twenty five thousand. Dollars say you don't have twenty five grand laying around I mean really who does right? You would then decide whether you're going to stay in jail until you can get a trial set or you might call a bail bonds agency and what they would do is essentially guarantee the county that they would pay that twenty five grand if you skipped out on your case. So if you didn't come back for your trial dates. In exchange for that, you would have to pay them ten percent of that amount. So twenty five, hundred dollars. If you have the twenty five grand to post your own bail, you would get that money back regardless of whether you got convicted of the crime or the charges got dropped or you. Were found to be innocent. You would just get that money the just there to make sure you show up at trial. However, if you didn't have that kind of cashing around and you had to go through a bail bond agent that twenty, five, hundred dollars that you gave them to secure your bond, you would forfeit, you would never get that money back. The whole cash bail system has been under fire for a long time for being inequitable give us an example of how that inequity plays out. Look people who have been accused of very violent crimes up to murder can sometimes post bail if they have the means but a lot of people end up languishing behind bars for really minor crimes because they just don't have the money their families don't have the money and disproportionately study after study shows these tend be black and Brown people. If you can't pay that bail amount. You can't go to work. You might lose custody of your kid by losing your work. You might not be able to pay your rent. So what critics of the system say is that it kind of perpetuates the cycle of poverty. And potentially leads more people into crime or can lead people to plead guilty to things that they did not do or that they might have a good chance of fighting because they essentially just WanNa get out of jail and get back to their lives. And we should add the this isn't an insignificant number of people right two-thirds of people in California jails are people who haven't gone to trial yet and have only been accused of a crime so Melissa how would prompt twenty five changed things if prop twenty five passes, it will make California the first state in the nation to completely eliminate bail and create a whole new system. Walk us through how this made it onto our ballot. So let's go back in time two years ago the legislature passes Senate bill ten and IT'S Signed by Governor Jerry Brown virtually immediately, the bail bonds industry went to the Secretary of state and filed what's called a referendum. A referendum is a special type of ballot measure which sole purpose is to overturn a law that the legislature has enacted and what it s be ten say SPN essentially said that commercial bail would be illegal in California. You could no longer pay a bail bondsman or woman for your freedom. Instead most people accused a very low level misdemeanors would just automatically get released. No questions asked here's your court. Date people accused of very violent felonies would almost never get out pretrial people. kind of in the middle would have an opportunity for the courts to do what's called a risk assessment. So essentially, an algorithm where they put in a bunch of information where you live who you are, what your criminal history is are you employed and it spits out? It's best guess based on a lot of data as to whether you're a risk to public safety and whether you're likely to come back to court and perhaps most importantly if. There are maybe conditions we could put on your release that would ensure that you would come back and not pose a threat. So that might be that you have to check in with probation officer. It might be that you have to be drug tested, but essentially alternatives to this idea that money is the best way to ensure that somebody comes back and within that system judges would have a lot of discretion to decide both whether someone should be released at all and if they are what conditions they need to abide by. What do we know about the risk assessment system that would be put in place? These are built by people and there's a lot of existing inequities within our system. And so I think the concerns that have been raised about them is that if you're relying on an algorithm that already assumes that maybe I mean this is like like blunt example but the assume like if you're a black man, you're more likely to be a criminal because historically we have over arrested Blackman then that's not fair either and so there are some questions from a civil liberties perspective about the way these algorithms are being developed and if they are perpetuating the existing disparities within our system. And then on top of that judges are humans and they have their own subjective approaches and beliefs They're all there to try to be very fair. But we again no from our existing system that a white person and a black person are not always treated the same even if they're accused of the exact same crime. That's a perfect segue to get us into talking a little bit more about the arguments for and against prop twenty five. So let's start with who is supporting this prop and kind of what they're arguing. Probably, what you see is really the democratic establishment pushing this in California and they're supported by certainly not everyone in law enforcement. There are a lot of law enforcement groups on the other side, but groups who have had experience with this like the probation sheaves are also in support and one of their arguments broadly. So they're basically saying that public safety should guide the decisions not money not race not sort of neighborhood you came from they're saying that this is going. To make the process fairer for all people and then it will actually end up saving taxpayers money because after you get past the kind of initial cost of building up this pretrial system, you manned up with far less people awaiting trial in jail, and those are people that we're all paying to feed and house and potentially support and other ways I. think that they are really trying to drill down the issue that the bail industry are the ones that spent the money to get this on the ballot, and that are really funding this campaign on that this is a commercial entity that isn't interested in public safety or anything else, but rather in protecting their own bottom line There are some interesting groups standing in opposition into this one who are they, and what are their arguments the biggest coalition against this are the bail bonds businesses that are going to lose their business. If it passes, they're the ones that paid to get it on the ballot. They are largely at the ones that have funded no on prop twenty five they do have support though from the California Republican Party from a handful of elected officials most. Of them Republican and certainly from some law enforcement groups who are worried about this, they're trying to make this a sort of question not about whether money bail is fair but whether it denies a constitutional, right if you take away the option of money bail that it could actually create additional biopsy is against minorities and the poor by giving these judges so much power and they're also basically making the argument that it puts public safety at risk. I will say though that there are some progressive groups especially lay who have raised concerns about this. The ACLU is not advocating for a no vote, but did not support Senate bill ten when it passed because they were concerned about this question of racial disparity and judicial discretion some folks on the left really feel like this could potentially lead to more people being locked up behind bars before their trials because it does give judges you know so much power and I think that judges have their own bias and these risk assessment tools were built by data that included a lot of disparities especially racially how well funded are these campaigns for against twenty five so on the No side and to. To reiterate, this is the side that wants to overturn Senate bill ten. So that would keep cash bail. It is almost entirely being funded by insurance companies and individual bail bonds, men, and women who have really are paying to try to overturn this law on the other side I would say it is kind of a WHO's who have democratic activists and groups including some of the big public employee unions like Sei, you us on the big criminal justice groups and individual donations from activists who have been pushing these reforms, and we've also seen some money come in from the Democratic Party itself, Maurice Lagos's K. cuties, politics correspondent, and the Co host of the political breakdown podcast thinks Morita. Thank you. To, RECAP A, yes, vote on prop twenty-five says you to replace cash bail with risk assessments as outlined in Senate bill ten of Oh. No means you'd rather keep cash bail practices in place and repeal Senate, Bill Ten. That's a wrap on bay curious prop fest. It has been a journey going through these twelve statewide propositions together over the past few weeks. Thank you all so much for riding along with us. If prop fest helped you out. Please let us know by leaving a rating and review wherever you listen or send us an email at bay curious at K. Q. E. D.. Dot. Org We love to hear from you. We'll get back to regular programming with a new episode. Next Thursday. If you're a new listener who's just tuning in four prop fast be sure to subscribe to Bay curious. So you don't miss a thing. Props fast has been a labor of love from our small team here at K. Q. E. D. none of it would have been possible without the hard work of producer Katrina Schwartz who was in the trenches with me making this series every day. Katrina I am so so grateful for you. Let's go take off. Our Sound Engineers Rob Speight and Katie mcmurray make our episodes sing despite all the wonky recorded home. Take that we throw their way. Thanks also to Jessica plot check keenum GME Erica Bianca Taylor, and Paul Incor- forgiving US feedback on every episode and to the entire Cutie staff that helped make what we do possible. Thank you. Bay Curious made in Francisco at member supported cake. I'm living Allen Price now please go vote with confidence.
Canada Scientists Isolate Coronavirus; California Counties Shelter In Place
"From NPR and WB. You are. I'm Tony Moseley. I'm Robin Young. It's here and now. And I a scene setter in the Krona Virus Taskforce Briefing today Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said. We're looking at sending checks to Americans immediately and the White House is presenting an eight hundred. Fifty Billion Dollar. Emergency stimulus package to stem the economic crisis. Also today no voting in Ohio. The Democratic primary was postponed over concerns about Cova Nineteen in Florida Illinois and Arizona. Voters are going to the polls officials say hand. Sanitizer is available. Stay six pete feet away from each other people. Meanwhile seven million people in San Francisco are sheltering in place more on that later in the program in New York governor. Andrew Cuomo said there's no plan to quarantine residents of New York City but he's working on getting temporary hospital facilities up and running in the State and in Louisville Kentucky Derby was postponed until September the first time since World War Two the race will not play take place the first Saturday in May and then scientists around the world are racing to develop treatments and a vaccine one team of researchers in Canada has come one step closer by isolating the virus responsible for the pandemic and joining me. Now is one of them. Dr Aaron Jay bonaire. She is a fellow at McMaster university in Hamilton Ontario. And Dr. What exactly were you able to do in the lab. And what are you learning about this corona virus so the first step of testing a vaccine testing drug is really getting the virus out of clinical specimens. So you can you can grow up the virus and then you can test it. And that's what we did so we took specimens and we. We grew them up on cells in a lab now that makes the resources available for the scientists across Canada. And how were you able to isolate this virus? So essentially did was viruses like cells. So when you take a virus and you put them in these cells which is what did trump because specimens from one thousand nine patients. We took the samples. We put them on cells and then we got the virus out of the sails and we are characterizing. The box as we speak You've been able to examine this virus in great detail. Can you explain for us? What makes this corona virus different from the others? Did you get any insight on why it's spreading so quickly and why it's so harmful right so if you look at the krona vices like SARS and Morris Dozen Nasty viruses than than this corona virus? We are lucky. And we're grateful that this current advisor is not as lethal in in humans like other chronic viruses. But you're right. It does seem to be more transmissible and and we don't know yet but we're hoping in the next few weeks will figure out why this virus is transmissible. The question that everyone has a and I know it's y you're working so hard on this. Is this going to lead to a cure or vaccine against this corona virus right? That's that's really the dream everybody's working very hard to get that vaccine or other therapeutic drugs like you said what'll happen sooner than a vaccine would be a drug that you can use to treat these with nineteen patients because vaccines have to go to regulatory process. It takes time but if you can take drugs are FDA approved and now that we've isolated this virus you can test their ficus your those drugs using the virus we've isolated and if you can identify any kind of cross protection you can start using those drugs. So that's really the goal I think. What's the most important thing right now? Scientifically speaking as you work through this process. What other work needs to be done? I think in a very simple questions like how effective are the disinfectants. That people are using right. So this is something you cannot test any of these questions without having live virus and we are going to supply this virus and share it once characterized it doctor Samir Mubarak at Sunnybrook was the team was working with and she's been leading all these efforts. I think she's she's very nice with sharing stuff. And we've decided that we would share it once we've characterized it. That's Dr Orange Canarsie part of a team of researchers that isolated the corona virus causing cove at nineteen last week. Dr Bernard she thank you so much for your time for Sharia. Yeah love to share everything we can. So we've got this. There's nothing to worry about. Oh well that is that is very reassuring to hear. It really is everyone's panicking and a little bit of hope during these times. It's great. Yeah so you feel pretty confident that we will contain this. I think I think he just went social distancing washing hands and the Gaza lockdowns. That's happening. I think we'll be okay. Thank you so much for that Dr. Thanks thanks for having me well. I needed that too and here in the states. Another group of researcher says they're close to a treatment that might stave off the worst effects of cove nineteen and also worked to prevent it. And it's one that was used over one hundred years ago Dr Peter. Hotels is a professor of molecular biology and microbiology at Baylor College of Medicine in Texas. He's been a key player in vaccine research for diseases including SARS and the new corona virus. He tweeted out our awful new reality and said he is determined to explain and promote convalescent serum antibody treatment especially to save the lives of first responders. He's a busy man. What was trying to save lives so we reached him on his cell at Baylor. A doctor hotels explain what his convalescent. Serum antibody treatment. So this is actually a throwback therapy that was used during the nineteen eighteen flu pandemic and it involves taking serum from patients who recovered from the virus because it has essentially a high level of antibodies. Isolating the antibodies. Then giving it back to our. They're sick patients or now potentially could be used for healthcare workers in the lower dose in order to protect them from a couple of weeks of getting the infection. It's an idea. That's being actively promoted by our to accustom divall. Who's a friend and colleague at Johns Hopkins Medical Center? And what he's doing is trying to organize a network of medical centers to see if we can Gear up blood banks to make this happen and we know. The doctors and China have begun treating covered nineteen patients with this blood. That's harvested from survivors again. Because if they survived they build up antibodies now. Is there a danger though? I mean you know what could be the downside of injecting them with. Antibodies only talking about isolating the antibodies. So that there's little to no risk of actually injecting them with the virus. There are some potential risks that have been associated with this including potential long injury but it seems to be an uncommon complication. And the point is if we're looking at large numbers of patients in intensive care units or very sick individuals if it has an opportunity to lower mortality that could make a big difference to the nation. It's really a stopgap measure until we can develop our vaccines and other groups can develop their vaccines or we have a new drug available. That's very challenging to develop new technologies to new pathogen in the middle of a very dangerous epidemic. We don't have a lot of precedent for doing that. Let's fascinating because the serum would be injecting as you said. Antibodies that were built up in the blood that defeated the virus. But to be clear. Are you talking about this? As a treatment for somebody within the first few days of them showing symptoms. Or are you advocating this or hoping this might work also as a prevention? So it's really both and it really. It's partly a function of the dose of that they received so somebody is very sick with this virus. And you're worried about them Having progressive disease the idea you would give them a large amount of of the antibody but in theory and in some cases in practice. It's been shown that you could give much smaller doses In order to administer this to people that are that are high risk for exposure to the virus We think about frontline health workers and we've already seen now report this weekend of two emergency room physicians now in who are severely ill or even in the ICU. At this virus we cannot let that happen on a large scale so maybe of the antibody could be used for that purpose. We're going to need guidance. For this from the federal government how to best provide quality control for this technology how to regulate it provincially bring in the food and Drug Administration who has a lot of expertise and biologics also? What kind of regulatory oversight does this need to have been also? Could we get federal government mobilizing resources for blood banks? Well you mentioned the two emergency room. Doctors wants a New Jersey once in Washington state in critical condition. And you know many of us read the incredible piece in The New York Times. This past weekend about the two twenty nine year old doctors. If from Wuhan one didn't make one did but it really drove home. What happens during this illness and what the fear is going another a lot of medical mysteries about this virus and one of them that was reports out of China is that healthcare workers seem to disproportionately be susceptible to severe illness based on what you'd predict Just on their age you can imagine how incredibly destabilizing That would be in the United States if healthcare workers are going to work every day knowing that they could become severely ill and be taken care of by their colleagues. Things could unravel very quickly so for me. This is a national priority. You are particularly saying we can save the lives of these frontline health providers first responders potentially with something that will slow down this viruses marched through their bodies. I think it's a weak link in our health system right now that if we have substantial number of health care was taken out of the workforce and I think this needs to be prioritized. Now that we're moving onto the next stage of the epidemic and during the Spanish flu epidemic in one thousand eighteen scientists reported that these transfusions of you know taking the blood from survivors of that flu led to a fifty percent drop in their deaths. Here we are over one hundred years later thinking about this again that. That's Dr Peter Hotels Professor of Molecular Virology and microbiology at the Baylor College of Medicine in Texas. I'm Dr Hotels. We wish you all the best of this. Thank you thanks so much so a hopeful news treatments possible. But we're wondering. How are you doing with all of this? How are the outbreak which hasn't really even hit us yet and the restrictions because of it houses all hitting you weigh in here now dot Org? This message comes from here and now sponsor indeed when it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste. You need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast. That's why you need indeed dot Com post job in minutes set up screener questions then zero in on qualified candidates using an intuitive online dashboard. And when you need to hire fast accelerate your results with sponsored jobs new users can try for free at indeed dot com slash here now terms conditions and quality standards offer valid through March thirty first twenty twenty and covert nineteen is already having a profound impact on the music industry not only with south by South West canceled but Coachella was cancelled as well and live nation. One of the largest musical promoters in the country has postponed concerts through the end of the month. Joining me now. Is Brian here? Artistic Director of the World Music Institute Brian. Welcome to here now. Every Madonna and Brian. Your organization brings musicians from all over the world for concerts. What kind of impact have you already seen? This has an had an impact that of just collapsing tours. shows that have been canceled on one end of the other of the dates so it's have major repercussions and now of course is definitely a cramping venues and all sorts of industries within the music industry. You are also in the concert. Business Stirring The terrorist attacks of nine eleven. How does today's crisis compare Back then I know a lot of my colleagues doing international music and bringing world music to the to the United States Felt that the music must go on especially at that time of You know a lot of prejudice and so forth that we felt that it was really important to bring the music of other cultures in importantly. But now we don't. We don't even have that luxury of trying to keep bringing people in music of other cultures together. So it's it's at a much more profound impact now I would say then than the nine eleven attacks on that because nine eleven. If you remember we were shut down for a few weeks of International flights but there were venues and concerts in that. Were were able to happen unlike now. So it's a it's a different day. How are you advising musicians You know of course. You're letting them know about their schedules. But there's probably also emotional component to your job and having to interface with them. It's really just having a ripple effect of For these artists of making a living. Because as you know now I mean in ours can't make a living off a streaming services and so forth so the live industry has been the way that they've been making their their bread and butter. So it's it's really devastating effect on live musicians of course so a organization we we hope to reschedule and and you know get artist back in in if they can of course But it's it's going to be starting over so to speak of getting these tours together and it takes a lot for artists to even get a handful of dates in the United States to make tours half him. So it's a huge puzzle that has to be free reshaped and reshifted our just waiting for the next upson. It's an. It's an interesting time Brian. Kerr is the artistic director of the World Music Institute. Brian thank you so much. Thank you for having US done there. Were nearly two thousand musical acts scheduled to perform at South by southwest and Austin Texas this year. Madison mcferrin was one of those acts scheduled to play. She's a singer Songwriter from Brooklyn New York. And if her name sounds familiar it's because she's the daughter of music legend. Bobby mcferrin well since Madison won't be playing at South by southwest. We thought we'd have her here albeit remotely. Madison mcferrin. Welcome to here and now thank you for having me. Yeah yes so you're at home now and you've had to cancel most of your live events. How are you doing well I'm just trying to adjust to the new normal of things You know everything's postponed for the time being but nobody really knows till winter. How long and being a musician of live shows or how you make the majority of your income. So now it's time to regroup and rework how we're GONNA do that for the next couple of months you made your debut at South by southwest and twenty eighteen. It's where a lot of national critics heard your sound for the first time. How important is south by southwest for you and artists like you who are just starting out. It's an incredibly important civil. I mean there are so many people there who you network with you get to work with So it's an incredibly important festival especially as an independent musician to be able to have the kind of outreach that really helped jumpstart your career in many ways so to have such an important festival not happen. This year is really telling us to the severity. Of what were facing your. I was called. No time to lose inquest. Love actually called your first album soul cappella. Let's take a listen. You did. So why are you aiding? I don't understand why thinking contemplating non waste all you would allow everything Jones. Say on Sean. Scott Jewish change in nine post op Haram Puzzle Capella. I mean that's a really cool description I did and now you say it. Yeah we know your Dad Bobby mcferrin as talented unaccompanied artist can only assume that he has had a huge influence on your music. What inspired you to make your debut album finding foundation volume one and ACAPELLA ALBUM? I really just did it out of necessity. It was not something that I was intending to do I had this loop pedal and I was messing around with it and I used to play Solo shows with the loop pedal and also with a synthesizer and when I started getting some work shows that called for shorter set time I had noticed that people were really attracted to these acapella songs that I was putting out but I mean it's really just the case that I hear harmony in my head better than I can play it on an instrument. So let me just that for the time being. I would imagine that being at several. Bobby mcferrin concerts throughout my life has influenced that in in some way. Oh I'm sure You know you also have a famous grandfather. Robert mcferrin senior who was the first black man to sing in the Metropolitan Opera I can only imagine how much music is infused in your day to day. Life in your life growing up. Has that. Put a lot of pressure on you though or or is it just part of a big family that loves to sing and pursue music seriously. It's a bit of both It's definitely started out just as you know. This is what we do as a family. And you know my dad's singing in the house all the time and we listen to music all the time and then it wasn't really until Went to college at Berkeley College of Music. Up until that point. You know it's it's easy to take for granted the fact that you have a musical genius in your household and so then all of a sudden I began listening to my father's music really from musicians perspective. And not just his daughter and it really opened my eyes and my ears to the brilliance of what he does and made me incredibly grateful to have someone like him in my life on your newest EP. You and die. You actually recorded one of the songs while Playing Your Dad's baby grand piano. It's called no you better. Let's take a listen tables turning must be speedy although observing under what a beautiful tonal quality. You have tell me a little bit more about this song. I really started doing Acapella Steph live because I was too nervous to play piano and sang in a live setting just because I haven't been competent in my piano playing abilities and so it was just kind of a reaffirming like hey I actually can do this and I also don't meet just do the thing. I also don't need to have a bunch of production around me like I can do this like this. I and it's alive. Take one take all the way through with me playing the piano and singing at the same time so I was like. Hey if you ever had any doubts I can sing you. Go One of your songs a little bit of a departure. It's called try. Let's listen What's driving this? You sound is an evolution as an experiment. Tell me more about it. It actually stems from argument that my boyfriend and I got into route. Try and apple letters on a piece of paper and slammed down the walked out of our apartment and when I was writing the song actually wrote it in my dad's studio and I was thinking about this concept of really trying to push yourself fear Pressel. I just kept saying try over and over like that argument coming back to me and so I decided to title it that you know I i. Struggle with my own issues of insecurities anxiety is the seem to be so popular in the age and just wanted everybody else to know that they're not alone in that. If we put our best foot forward we can actually get through these things including covert nineteen. I know it's really part of the human condition right as we get back up and we each day each day we attain and get to that level that we're trying to get to whatever perfection looks like for us or being better. Looks like for us? Yeah absolutely I mean. I think all of us are really trying to figure out how we're going to shift in this day and age but united. I think this is going to be a real test to us as a society as to how we can stay together. Stay connected And not not. Just let this social distancing distance us forever just because we can't be in the same place doesn't mean that we can't still share music doesn't mean that we can't still you know spread joy and just be together in this collective community that singer songwriter. Madison mcferrin Madison. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having stay safe out there. You're listening to me. You know you get you. Nearly seven million people in the San Francisco Bay area are now under an order to shelter in place for the next three weeks. It's the most drastic measure taken in the US so far too slow the spread of Corona virus and the region's main industry tack is also adjusting to this clampdown. Let's bring in Jessica lesson. She's editor in chief of the information. And Jessica how is this shelter in place order affecting the tech sector supposed to stay in place until at least April seventh? It was quite a jolt. yesterday So we're we're only a couple hours into it and I think everyone's trying to figure it out. You know for for week or so now. Companies out in the bay area facebook and many more had moved to work from home but there are some huge questions about how this is going to affect technology companies from small startups. All the way on up. So you know it's pretty widespread in these companies are enacting That across the country as well. It's very large numbers i. I'm personally surprised. My Internet is holding up so well among other things but it's a complete bending of Normal business practice. Which of course we're seeing across under other industries as well. Yeah Yeah you mentioned some of those smaller companies. That don't typically have people working from home how are they handling it this What's the learning curve? Been like? I mean it's a lot of slack in zoom and I would say I was a a casual slack user and now I'm a very aggressive slack users. I think technology is given us a lot of tools. There's over zoom and Videoconference even just these like casual happy hour conversations that pop up between venture capitalists start ups and journalists. So there's a lot of creativity I would say but we we are only in the beginning of this and I think it's very unclear what it's GonNa feel like a few weeks from now you bring up a good point though about some of these technology companies that are actually getting a boost like slack because people are using it more. My muscle thinking about the use of Amazon and other key delivery services and these streaming services like net flicks just wondering. It's so hard to say as you said we're in the beginning stages but perhaps this might cement a trend towards ECOMMERCE and that competitive advantage. Those companies have over these brick and mortar businesses. It's very very possible. I think the ECOMMERCE COMPANIES. This is true of some of the same day food delivery and other services. That of you know are seeing stronger demand. They have really challenging back in logistics to figure out to as they figure out how are their employees is going to go to work. What are their delivery schedules? Are they going to modify schedules? So for instance you know Amazon. Same Day delivery service has just seen surging demand in recent weeks and is basically Saying we don't have any windows available right now so I think it's really unclear. How operational they'll be able to be with all that they're managing. Yeah and as for those workers who are working from home. I mean optimistically. Eventually they will go back to their offices but do you think we might actually see. It's kind of a proof of concept that these companies can maintain sizable portions of their workforce. Working from home after this is over possibly before the virus in the bay area. There was a push towards remote work. Who knows what's going to happen to the economic picture here. That was really driven by the high cost of housing in the bay area but with that trend underway coupled with this. I think we could see some major shifts in realignment in the workforce. That's Jessica lesson editor in chief of the information. Thank you so much thank you Tanya. We mentioned earlier. That parts of California have now been ordered to take steps like Italy by putting down shelter in place. Orders that means seven million people from seven counties in northern California are being asked to only leave their homes for essential travel for at least three weeks. California Governor Gavin newsom is also advising all Californians to stop gathering in groups no matter the size directing that no gatherings Be considered advanced in this state of. That's the new guideline. We're putting out This evening as well. And we think it's very rational. Under these circumstances disruptive. I know for some but rational more than five hundred people have tested positive for the corona virus and the state. Marissa Lagos is a correspondent for K. Q. E. D. in San Francisco and she joins us now from her home. Hi Marissa He Tanya so breakdown for us what a shelter in place order actually means is it. Is it similar to Italy and other places in Europe that that we were talking about? I think we're a little bit. Maybe a few weeks behind Italy. This is really a directive from local officials here in the bay area. I'm what they're asking people to do. Is Essentially just sort of st stick to their household. Stay inside unless you need to go to the grocery store or do go to the doctor. Something absolutely essential There really urging people not to make a run on groceries that there are plenty of supplies here but they're really just trying to us from each other and I mean it's been an interesting week Tiny as I have two young children and Schools are not in session and we had decided as a household actually to do this ourselves as of Sunday And so I think in in some ways it's a little bit of a relief to have this directive from the local officials. So we know exactly what the parameters are. But it's definitely John ging. Yeah Yeah you bring up a good point at it brings guidance and I think a lot of people though were asking what exactly is essential travel. And you brought this up if you have a doctor's appointment or something like that but grocery shopping is not under that rubric of Essential Travel. I'm wondering yeah so we're allowed grocery store and we are actually allowed to go outside and take a walk. My kids are out on their scooters and bikes right now as long as you stay six feet away from people who aren't in your household I see I see how authorities going to enforce this well. They're hoping that it's more of a guidance. Tissue technically if you violate an order like this a public health order you could be cited for misdemeanor. But that's obviously not what anybody wants to see What we're hearing from police chief here and from the mayor is that City officials police will be out there kind of educating people at this point and unless somebody is really sort of defying this in a ridiculous way. they're not going to be exciting people. They're just going to be trying to explain to them what we're asking for. Yeah you're at home you've been at home for a couple of days you put this in place for your household but what does the bay area look like right now? Are the streets? Empty are as the interstate empty. Yeah it is really eerie and strange The the kind of closest thing I can think of in recent history as the wildfires when the smoke is keeping everybody inside but it's certainly a little further than that You know the my corner is usually very busy in the morning with hunks and beeps and Except for the street sweepers and the buses still running. It really does feel like everyone's hunkering down the A- All non-essential businesses have also closed. Do you know what measures the state is taking to keep those small business owners and employees afloat. Yeah and we've seen a pretty aggressive sort of moved from Sacramento in recent days. I'm just last night. The state legislature decided before they adjourned until April thirteenth to pass up to a billion dollars in aid packages. And that's really more for hospitals and to support you know seniors who are homebound individuals who might need that help We've also seen waving of you know the waiting period for unemployment insurance In San Francisco the city is offering ten million dollars to help essentially subsidize sick leave for small employers so if they can offer it for a week but they need help with the second week things like that so. I do think that people are really trying to step up as much as possible. I think right now Some of the challenges probably just getting that information out to people and making sure they understand what they're eligible for. Yeah Yeah and you mentioned that you're at home with your children. I'm also thinking about child care workers Who really rely on that work. Have you heard anything about those workers? Well I mean we're still paying our preschool tuition. And we're getting a lot of emails from our teachers who were trying to still do their part to educate I know part of this order is to essentially say unless you're a live in any or you need to help somebody with medical care That you cannot go and do your job and so I think that you know the question is for those of us who are still getting our paychecks. What can we do to keep the sort of economy going and moving? And can you afford to still pay people? Even if you're not getting your house cleaned or you know your your child care Taken care of but I I mean not. Juggle is really this. Big Challenge tiny. I think you're in the same situation where it's like. How do we work and home school? Our kids and sort of I present them with a sense of normalcy endless weird time. Yeah all of us are doing it. Yes I'm in my closet and my kids are downstairs grappling with those questions that's K. Q. E. Marie so Lagos With us from From San Francisco. Thank you so much for your time. Take Care Tanya well as we mentioned. Kids are home because schools across the nation are closing to stop the spread of Corona Virus and Wisconsin the government has mandated that all schools closed beginning tomorrow but before that one school they are has been using data about the virus as a teaching tool emily files of member station. W. W. M. visited a classroom. Where for weeks middle schoolers have been analyzing corona virus statistics? East broke academy is a small K. Through twelve Christian school on the north side of Milwaukee eighth graders here say they heard about the corona virus on tick tock the Social Media Video. App. Here's Noah Keller is kind of over exaggerated the kind of like a apocalypse and the world thing math teacher bill. Drew Liner says. The students brought their concern into the classroom. There was a lot of alarm sometimes. It's hard to tell whether the kids are joking or not concern or fake concern. That was coming out in the way they were talking about it you know. Can we talk about CORONA VIRUS INSTEAD OF SOLVING LINEAR EQUATIONS? And things like that. This was back in mid February when the virus was mostly confined to China. Drew Liner. Saw it as a learning opportunity so for the past three weeks. His class has studied the corona virus infection data and calculated the rate of growth student. Mariah Dwyer says it became more significant for her wants. The outbreak reached the US. She's worried about relatives in Wisconsin and other states for me. It's creepy Erlich scary. Because I've been look everywhere so it's just like every state there is like. Oh Yeah you're Bob Wallace there and I'm like Whoa. They might get eight after looking at the numbers in one recent class drew liner asked students what recommendations they would tell the CDC Kia oster wind raised her hand. Me Maybe the food shipments and then you do need to quarantine everyone in the house. We need to have food patrick. Connor says using real life. Examples can make math concepts more accessible and corona virus is as real as it gets. Hunter teaches at New York. City's stuyvesant high school and wrote a corona virus. Statistics lesson for other teachers to us are always looking for ways to make map real for their students and this virus is very real so the students are curious because they know they know that this can affect them. Hunter says teachers need to be sensitive to the fact that the conversation can be scary for students. That's where the expertise of a teacher knowing. Their students really is important. Because you you had that relationship with them and you understand you know what what will be appropriate for them. It might be too much biology teacher. Megan Christianson wanted her students to know the reality of the situation. She teaches in Upland California near La Christianson. Had Her ninth graders research how viruses like Kovic nineteen infect cells. Soon they'll write papers about solutions to viral outbreaks. We need to teach students about what is important. We need to teach students about real world problems. And how to figure things out because that is what happened when you're an adult. The teachers hope their lessons about the corona virus. Help their students feel better informed even as news about the spread of it grows more concerning for NPR news. I'm emily files in Milwaukee and let's learn more now about Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin 's announcement. Today at the White House Task Force on chronic could the corona virus that the administration wants to put the money in the hands of Americans. We're looking at sending checks to Americans immediately and what we've heard from hardworking Americans. Many companies have now shutdown whether it's bars or restaurants Americans date cash now and the president wants to get cash now and I mean now in the next two weeks and this is part of the plan from the administration for an eight hundred fifty billion dollar stimulus package. A many economists have been saying yes put cash in hands of Americans especially those out of work because of the corona virus. Then there's the Federal Reserve cut to interest rates to make it easier to borrow and spend but our next guest says well. The Fed can only do so much. Let's bring in economist. Stephen Roach senior fellow at Yale's Jackson Institute of Global Affairs also former chair of Morgan Stanley. Asia Hi Stephen Morning Robin. And how briefly do you feel about just flat out? Cash to Americans. Look it's admirable thing to help Americans who are suffering. I'd rather quite honestly put cash in the hands of scientists in public health officials to get a grip on this crisis immediately and I heard the the emphasis that Secretary MNUCHIN places on getting cash to people in distress I'm not critical that but I really WANNA see disease containment. Get the same emphasis from our treasury. Secretary that He's he's giving today at the White House. Well this is your main point your overarching point that it's time to invest in scientific findings long-term resilience against emerging diseases and climate change. But it sounds like you're saying as many others have it would be very nice to give you know a thousand couple thousand to every American especially those out of work so they can pay their mortgage mortgage and then they can cover some food but what he do next month. So you're saying you know think of the long term and that that brings us to the Fed cut which makes it easier to borrow and spend now White House economic adviser Larry cudlow predicted a short economic slowdown of just weeks and months. But you write large economies around. The world have been slowing. They were slowing before the virus. Too many governments. You say made a devils compact with globalization prioritizing speed and quantity of economic growth of equality. What do you mean there? What's the quality of the the growth experience having cleaner air having a A planet that is More stable in terms of the The hole in the Ozone Air And also Making certain that we don't have you know disease rampant around the world in a public health infrastructure. That is Ill-equipped incapable of responding to that disease. So we we have overlooked that. Because we want faster growth Cheaper goods and services from producers around the world and that's a very unfortunate Aspect of the Compact that we have underpinning mobilization today. And you say this is a supply shock that we're in right now with the effects of the Krona virus so for instance we can't get the manufacturers can't get things they need because of factories shut down in China. It's not a demand shock with people afraid to spend money and that's when you pour money into the economy to make grow so doesn't oversimplify sure is A. It's a supply shock coming out of China but it certainly has implications for demand if people are restricted from leaving their homes and fearful of assembly in public places so Becoming demand shock. Yeah absolutely yeah and so we hear you about you and others saying it's time to invest in things long-term to to prepare for future outbreaks in there will be more viruses and there will be climate change. But what would you suggest short term for people who suddenly woke up Monday morning and they're out of a job because their company can no longer have people coming into work out in a gym or people coming into sit down at a restaurant? Whoa what's the best thing to do? They're the best thing to do. There is take care of yourself. If you don't have work you have absolutely no cash on hand and you know We have Social Services and public authorities. Who should be able to get You what you need to subsist on a short term basis but. I don't think that you know the full force of the. Us government right now should be provided We shouldn't be focused on providing income assistance for those in distress. We need to provide direct assistance to the scientific and public health community. Who can get a grip on this problem? If we don't solve Cova nineteen over the next few weeks and We're going to have a far more serious set of economic dislocation to address in in the Munson but even you know expanding in just a couple of video expanding unemployment again. I'm in favor of providing short term relief for those in the most acute distress but that should not be the sole focus of public policy coming out of Washington. Stephen Roach senior fellow. At Yale's Jackson Institute of Global Affairs. Thanks so much and here now is a production of NPR and wr association with the BBC. World Service. I'm Robin Young. I'm Tanya Moseley. This is here now.
Divided States of the Pandemic
"Reveal is supported by ever lane. When you're staying at home for an extended period of time, twenty four seven pajamas just won't cut it. Look and feel great at home with their comfortable affordable modern basics like the organic cotton crew, t shirt, and perform leading and right now they're popular. One hundred percent human collection is donating all proceeds to feeding America's Covid nineteen response. Fund check out our collection at ever lane dot com slash reveal, plus you'll get free shipping on your first order. That's ever lean dot com slash reveal ever lane dot com slash reveal. From the Center for investigative reporting NPR x this is reveal. Listen. It's June five months into our national experiment of managing a contagious deadly disease, and the US is hurting. More than one hundred thousand people have died of Covid nineteen. The illness caused by the corona virus and we're now at over two million people infected. The disease is having a disproportionate impact on Black America. Black people are dying more than twice the rate of Asian lead and X. or white people from covid nineteen, and in the midst of this George, floyd a black man's death at the hands of a white police officer sparked worldwide outrage people in every state when out into the street in record numbers to protest police brutality. The images from the days of protests are absolutely stunning, sometimes heartbreaking, but also worrisome in the middle of a pandemic, and we've moved into phase two. Reopening first state to fully reopen Alaska. It's been the least affected by the. Opening of Florida hair and nail salons gyms, all across the lone star state can get back it up and run the judgment on win, and how to reopen is up to each state. That's how it went with the shutdowns to. This is not unique to corona virus. These types of decisions are always a balancing act between big pitcher and ground level factors. But this pandemic is not only more deadly, but more complex than any we've faced. In recent history and local leaders have been left to navigate that complexity by federal government. That's largely abdicated. Its responsibility to lead states can do their own testing states as opposed to be doing testing hospitals as opposed to be doing testing. You understand that with the federal government listen with the federal government. We not supposed to stand on street corners doing testing. Today will show you exactly who made enormous decisions to shut down two of America's most populous and diverse states, California and Florida they're on opposite coasts and very different politically, but they started dealing with the crisis around the same time, and they reported their first covert nineteen deaths within days of each other. We're going to zoom in on the San. Francisco Bay area and South Florida, local leaders found themselves having to make decisions with inadequate information. Mixed messages from the top in Florida reveals low morale joined forces with WWL RN's Katie's Tulsky and here in California reveals Lance Williams teamed up with. Maria llagas. We start in San Francisco with Marita. Back in January, most Americans are preoccupied with the impeachment of president trump the Democratic presidential primary and the Super Bowl, but not this doctor in San. Francisco Miami, Jen. Zang and I'm the CEO of Chinese hospital. The hospital is more than just a medical center in Chinatown. It was built a hundred years ago in the Chinese community lacked access to white hospitals, schools and other public institutions and perched on a hill. It's still serves as a sort of nucleus of. Of The neighborhood every day you see a lot of people coming from the community to just sit in a lobby. They are not there to see. adopted allowed to do a test because come in to Social Dr Zang grew up in China and she started medical school there. She moved here thirty years ago to finish her training, but she returned to China every year to teach in stays in touch with former MED school classmates on social media. In late January. She sees a picture of a former classmate getting ready to fly to Wuhan with a big medical team hospitals, there are overrun by a new virus. It's the eve of China's biggest holiday. Lunar New Year and Zangas shocked. When you fly at team like that and you have to leave on a tiny new deep something must be really is most BV employee, and she's been tracking this novel Corona Virus From Afar, but now it hits her. Just how close it actually is, you either go back to Kinda full Chinese New Year or they can come here because it's a holiday and that's life from Hun only twelve hours. And I'm like Oh my God. It's twelve dollars I way. It's January twenty fourth Washington state has recently confirmed the first US Corona virus case and president trump is just starting to talk about the virus. Unlike Dr Zang. The president isn't worried here. He is on CNBC. We have a totally under control. It's one person coming in from China. And we have it under control it's. Going to be just fine, but thing knows she needs to start preparing now. She wants to stock up on masks and other personal protective equipment, and so I I asked by purchase came to a place, older, two thousand. mask guess what it was the odor. So, there's two things shall me. We can have outbreak here in Chinatown. And then we will be in serious a problem. PPA shot. Ziemba believes the public should be warned. She calls the local officials. Who Represents Chinatown San Francisco? Supervisor Aaron Peskine the pulled together a news conference on February first, so we all know. I it's. It's the first of several public warnings about the corona virus in Chinatown over the coming weeks. Her that there is no you. Can you do as? Important Walk Your Hands Continue. Washing your hands. The warnings seemed to pay off California. Confirms its first coronavirus case on Chinese New Year. The first case in the San Francisco Bay area comes six days later on January thirty first Chinese hospital doesn't admit a corona virus patient until the end of March. Katie what's happening in south Florida around this time well back on January thirty first the same day that the first bay area cases reported a woman shows up with flu symptoms at a hospital in the city of Hollywood that's an ECLECTIC beach town. Just outside. Fort Lauderdale. She's visiting from province in China connected to Wuhan. This sets off alarm bells. How the? Media got wind of it. Boy was immediately storm. It felt like pandemonium says Dr. Stanley Marks. He's the chief medical officer of memorial healthcare system. Where the woman came turns out that woman that arrived is not sick with the corona virus. It's just the flu, but the public growing fear is real. We had to keep her in the hospital because she had no place to go. And the media storm was so so severe. That! We were concerned for her just to discharge her and let her go. This patient is a false alarm still marks like Zang in San Francisco quickly realizes his. Needs to get ready March chief of infectious. Disease and My chief epidemiologist basically said. this will come. all over. We need to be prepared for a pandemic helping out to be right. As, these doctors, three thousand miles apart are starting to plan. The White House is forming its Corona Virus Task Force at the end of January the number of confirmed cases in the US hit six, and those people recuperating successfully, but we're working very closely with China and other countries, and we think it's going to have a very good ending for us so that I can. Assure you. Other people are not assured. When president trump made that comment scientists rick bright was the head of Biomedical Research Team at the US Department of Health and services bright testify before Congress after he filed a whistleblower complaint was dismissed. He said that he and other government employees warned the White House starting January that. The country was unprepared for coming pandemic, but no one wanted to hear it I was met with indifference. Saying. They were either too busy. They didn't have a plan. They didn't know who was responsible for procuring those. He also told Congress that to contain the virus. We need testing available for everyone. If we do not take seriously the call for action to put specific things in place, it coordinated national plan for testing and response. Equitable distribution is limited supplies and ramp up and prepare then this virus will overcome in significant ways. Still the administration responded by attacking bright and said he was politicizing the response to covid nineteen in a tweet president. Trump called him a disgruntled employee. But the flaws rich bright raises or at the heart of the federal government's failure PP shortages have left frontline workers exposed all over the country and without a national testing strategy. Local officials don't have the tests. They need to track how the virus is spreading or the guidance that could help them decide how to respond. Also drowned out by our political chaos consistent accurate information to help people know what to do like one atop CDC official tells Americans. It's not a question of if but when the virus will spread into communities while the president tweets that the coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. So in the face of all that. If you're in charge of a school district of county city state. What do you do? When we come back, we'll look at how California became the first state in the nation to declare a shelter in place order. That's next on reveal. Reveal is supported by true panicles. Life is full of tough choices and tradeoffs. Your beauty routine what you put on your body. Every day shouldn't be one of them. Filled with natural and organic ingredients, struble technical skin and body products give you results without toxins, so you can feel good while working from home. You've got to try trooper tentacles for yourself. Get fifteen percent off your first purchase. A true botanical dot com slash reveal. That's fifteen percent off your first purchase at true botanical dot com slash reveal. True botanical dot com slash reveal. From the Center for Investigative Reporting MPR x this is revealed. Let's. By early February California had confirmed six cases of the corona virus, but at this point, only eighty people in a state of forty million at even been tested. That's because the state has a limited supply of tests and they're being rashed. The CDC says only people who are showing symptoms have visited a virus hotspot, or no, they've been exposed can get tested and local officials are getting anxious. Cake. Marissa Lagos picks up the story. It was just kind of. A MESS! Dr Scott Morrow is in charge of public health in San Mateo County just south of San Francisco on the last day of January. The federal government starts trying to screen passengers flying in from China some go into quarantine and some head home, if they come to San Mateo Morrow Service to follow up, were getting reports of hundreds a day of these people coming back and try to find and test them and ask them about if they were sick or not, but he doesn't have the one thing he really needs. We literally like we had no testing at the time, so we were like of guess at all of this stuff. And so, we thought we had almost cases, and we were doing a fairly good job, but we didn't know. Mars comparing notes with other public health officers in the San Francisco Bay area. They've worked closely together. Since nineteen eighty five, when the AIDS epidemic was exploding and president, Reagan refused to even acknowledge the disease back then they formed the Association of Bay area, health officials or a bio based on the reality that both people diseases don't. Don't stay inside county lines. We know that we need to have a very regional response. Because that's the way the region operation, they meet several times a year, often running tabletop exercises to game out things like how to ration medicine or medical equipment like ventilators. The very choices that doctors in Italy New York will soon be confronting. We've been practicing MAC. A multi agency coordination response for the last two years in response to a pandemic actually. Federal law gives the states broad authority to manage public health emergencies. In California, much of that powers handed down all the way to county. Public health officers, Lake Morrow. There are some specific laws, but they're very broad and vague and basically say anything. You need to to stop the spread of disease. They're Kinda brilliantly written they kind of take politics ahead of the mix they make the disease, the kind of the central focusing points in science face, disease control public health officers routinely put individuals in isolation or quarantine, usually for things like measles tuberculosis. If there's a new unknown communicable disease, they can declare local health emergency that's both a signal to the public and also technical move to open up funding to fight disease. In early February one of Maros colleagues just south of him in silicon. Valley takes that step county of Santa Clara has declared a local emergency due to the corona virus officials say the Santa Clara, Public Health Officer Dr Sarah Cody is the first state or local official to do this in the nation, and then we had this. Airy February where we had. No more cases reported no more cases detected, and that was also the months where we were desperately trying to get the ability to run the tests that the CDC was offering with testing Hamstrung. No County health official in California can get a clear picture of how the virus is spreading so terrifying when. Got Your right, and now we know that there. Of course there was community transmission going on throughout February, and certainly most likely through quite a bit of January, but we couldn't see it. Meanwhile from the White House podium and on the campaign trail. The president is downplaying the reality of the virus. It's going to disappear one day. It's like a miracle. It will disappear. But the day before trump said that California confirmed the first case of community transmission in the nation. The message from Washington is muddled. The president is saying that more testing isn't necessary, but on March fourth the CDC eases restrictions on who can get a test and a few days later. Trump says anybody who wants to. Scott Morrow the San. Mateo Public Health Officer knows that's just not true. There still aren't enough tests. He realizes California could be facing a catastrophe. We all suspected that it was spreading like wildfire, and it was spreading like wildfire under our noses, but we could not prove it 'cause. We just did not have the testing passivity. Mara starts posting long messages to the public on the county health department website you can sense his concern and frustration in this one from March tenth if I am filled with uncertainty. I can only imagine how the general public must be feeling. People want very specific answers to their questions. and. They deserve them. But in many cases, there are not satisfactory answers to give them. In early March the crisis in California shifts into high gear. On Monday march ninth days of uncertainty. The Grand Princess Cruise. Ship Dachshund Oakland carrying thirty five hundred crew members and passengers at least twenty. One of them are infected with corona virus. The same day health officer Sarah Cody bands gatherings of a thousand people in Santa Clara County effectively shutting down Beria professional hockey and soccer education officials from across the state. Arrange a meeting with Democratic Governor Gavin newsom San Francisco. School Superintendent Vincent Matthews is there. That I love to hear find out when he got close closer now. Mathews has already had to shut down one high school and has dragged sending three thousand students home after one parent test positive for the corona virus, but the city's still doesn't have enough kits to test the rest of the family. Knowing that schools are a major hub for spreading contagious disease, and that closing will be controversial. Matthews hopes that the governor will take the lead, but newsome doesn't bite. You can patrick about that he's. He just thought it was a local decision and he was gonNA. Let local dishes made the call. Matthews is worried about the virus San Francisco. Schools don't even have the soap in Hannitized. Emergency Board meeting on Thursday. Thursday march twelfth the meeting last hours. This is a message for s USD students, staff and families. We are closing schools to students for three weeks beginning ultimately, the board decides to Shut Down San Francisco. Schools other area districts announced. They're doing the same so governors in Ohio Oregon and Michigan the next day Florida Shudder Schools Statewide At this point, local governments are inching toward more restrictive crowd bands, but it's a patchwork across counties as officials grapple with how to proceed. Even, though Santa Clara County bands Lord Sporting events starting Monday march ninth the Golden State. Warriors host, an NBA game in San Francisco the next day. The day after that game Wednesday march eleventh. Governor newsom bands gatherings of two hundred and fifty or more people statewide. Things are heating up nationally as well. Thursday president trump announces. He's limiting travel from Europe causing overcrowding and chaos at airports. And Friday New York's mayor declares a state of emergency. For people living here the week feels like Whiplash San Francisco Health Director. Grant Colfax has been watching. Other countries closed down everything. If it clear to me that no jurisdiction was saying Oh we were, too. We overreacted to this virus. But down in Santa Clara Sarah Cody feels like she's just made the toughest call she can. On Friday March thirteenth I issued the order to ban gatherings greater than one hundred, and at the moment that I issued that order that seemed so monumental and so difficult, and having such profound impact never did I imagine that forty eight hours later I would've come as far as thinking that. We actually needed to completely. Completely shut things down and shelter in place yet by Sunday. That's exactly what health officials all over the bay area are mulling Colfax in San Francisco spends that Sunday morning with one question on his mind. My morning, thinking as I was drinking my two cups of coffee, and then three cups of tea. You know it was really about. Are we doing enough? He's thinking about closing down all San Francisco restaurants. Posing all restaurants. Great I mean that's A. Seismic shift when you leave with the science and data that doesn't necessarily mean that serve our culture and our collective thinking. shifts in you know even for me I was like am I really going to recommend that we close all restaurants in San Francisco. It's not just about the restaurants, but really shutting the city down. A text wakes up. San. Mateo County's health officer Scott Morrow that morning, San, Francisco and Santa Clara WanNa get a call together. Eventually other public health officers and county lawyers Georgina. We talked about what we thought needed to be done. The warriors listened and that day to an other worldly, literally other worldly. I have no idea how they did this. Did Not seem in the realms of this world based on what we have said. We thought we needed to do. But together the bones of the shelter in place order the health officers fear California. Hospitals would become overwhelmed as the world had seen in Italy. The state has reported about a thousand tests by now. Most of them are in the bay area. But that's still too few to show exactly what's going on, so they felt they had no other choice, but to shut down their region that day they wrote order renew every minute counted every second every minute that went by we were getting further and further behind, and we were going to be at least. Sunday, afternoon Governor newsom steps in with a statewide order, but not a full shutdown. We are calling for the home isolation of all seniors, directing all bars, nightclubs, wineries, brewpubs, and the like be closed in the state of California. The next day Monday march sixteenth, the bay area health officers schedule on been day announcement, or personally can tell you I was scared shitless, and also a feeling of. This has to be done. There are no other option. It just has to be done. A few minutes later he stands with his colleagues from around the bay. Area Santa Clara Health Officer. Sarah Cody announces the first shutdown order in the US telling almost seven million people to basically stay home. These new orders direct all individuals to shelter at their place of residence and maintain social distancing of at least six feet from any other person when outside their resident. And, so we all do there. We did our joint press conference. If there were no politicians, it was just how officers got up. Made our statements shelter in place order was starting to midnight fat night. In Sarasota County, the mayor of the biggest city San Jose. Mayor! Sam Lucado I understood that there was a pact among the public health officers that they would be meeting in secret, and you kind of like selecting a pope going to tower eventually wait for the smoke to come out and we'd have the pronouncement San Francisco Mayor. London breed got word, but she was frustrated that other local politicians didn't. They said they didn't want to. To put politics in it, but that's wrong. The fact is they put forward directives, and we have to motivate people to comply with those orders. The public health officers Scott Morrow says this was a time for emergency action, not drawn out political debate. We didn't have time to go through a great process. At this moment. This had to take precedence because we knew from history. that. Like new. York New York is going to be damaged for generations so much death so much devastation and That it's going to be etched in the psyche of the children and the adults for generations. Understood the economic problems with it. We understood all sorts of problems with it, but this had to take presses. Still mayors including Lagarto want some continuity. He and other start lobbying governor newsom to close down the whole state. No city or region is an island here. And if we didn't have uniform set of rules than we would all just have our communities getting reinfected by everyone who's traveling across? County lines two days after the bay area counties. ACT NEWSOM sends a letter to the White House asking for help, he writes. The state's epidemiological models show more than twenty. Five million Californians could be infected by mid-may if nothing is done. The next day governor newsom orders all of California's nearly forty million residents to stay at home, except for workers in essential business. He's the first governor in the country to take this drastic step. Direct a statewide order for people to stay at home. At this point California's confirmed cases had quadrupled over the last week and the state is about the shutdown. This is a massive experiment to fight a new disease. Anybody, follow. When we come back with crossing the country to Florida with the annual rite of spring, break has just begun. I get thrown at the end of the day. I'm not going to want to stop me from party. This is reveal. From the Center for investigative reporting NPR x this is reveal amount outlets. On March eleventh a week before California closed. The World Health Organization declared the corona virus outbreak, a global pandemic in the US. The virus had reached thirty five states. California had just over two hundred reported. Cases and Florida had twenty six people were stocking up on toilet paper, watching the news, and some were already starting to make their own tough calls I kind of knew what was going on in different parts of the country ruth. Ruth and Bradley runs a Yoga Studio in South Florida in Broward. County as a corona virus spread. She was chatting on facebook with other yoga instructors across the US. You know I kind of saw the writing on the wall. Lutheran is worried about her health and her business. She and her students start a new more intense cleaning routine. Everybody had ham sanitizers around the studio, and we were washing hands like crazy and I was washing. Props and things that we had. She does this for week and finds it exhausting I was almost like I can't go through another week of all this cleaning. If I'm basically going to be closing anyway. A march fifteenth. She closes her studio indefinitely like many other businesses. She takes action even before the government tells us she has to. It just seemed like the right thing to do. But as she shutting down her business. Florida beaches are filling up visitors, young people hell bent on spring break. Other people in our little AIRBNB. Our hanging out with them and trying to get drunk before everything clauses. If a pandemic can't scare away spring break crowds. What will it take to protect people's health? Let's go to Miami with W. L.. RN's Katie's Tulsky. It's the second week of March and the mayor of Miami. Beach Dan Gelber is taking a weekend stroll. I walked out. Just to get a sensible as happening, it's peak spring. Break the unceasing party that takes over much of south Florida's coast. Every march bringing a lot of business ocean drive is the main drag of Miami Beach, a city on a long thin island, just east of Miami Gelber walks under palm trees past art deco. People watching your own. There wasn't a single person I think. exercising social distance, not one out of tens of thousands at the time. Most people aren't even talking about social distancing yet we invite large gatherings. We have all sorts of venues and an incredible amount of bars and restaurants and cultural establishments and seven hundred miles of beaches I mean so. Nobody comes here to be distant from one another. But Gelber is familiar with the concept at this point, he's heard about it as he's been watching the corona virus spread across the globe over the last few weeks, Florida got its first confirmed case on March first, and by now they reported seventy, but there are no state, federal or local orders for people to keep six feet apart yet, and like California Florida is limiting. Who can get a test for the corona virus could have full community spread without even knowing it. It is like telling us. If you see you the on Biscayne Boulevard, you should do something. How would we know? There was communities right if there wasn't a single test available to determine it. Without clear evidence of WHO's infected and wear the guidance that's available doesn't make sense gelber. It was just sort of advice. Send the CDC to not be too close together, and if you get a lot of it, then you shouldn't be in large gatherings. Felt like it was telling you to avoid bad breath as opposed to a deadly virus. Florida has about half the population of California and compared to California. Florida has more centralized public health infrastructure. There are no independent county health officers, those working locally act Moore's branches for the State Office and take orders from the governor. That means if the state's leadership is slow, it can slow everything down. We asked the Florida Department of Health about their strategy for responding to Kobe. They declined interview requests, so we e mailed a list of questions. They replied to some of our inquiries regarding testing, all other questions were answered with an official statement that gave little detail, saying their approach has been quote, strategic and methodical. We do know at this point. They're largely referring local officials to the CDC Guidance and Republican Governor Rhonda's scientists has left closing beaches up to local officials like Dan Gelber. At that point, I realized that I was not going to rely on the federal government to tell us what to do. I couldn't rely on the state of the so I called the Mayor of Fort Lauderdale that weekend. The mayors of the two cities talked and so did the city managers I remember taking a phone call one Friday night from the city manager Miami Beach Kris Lager Bloom, the city manager in Fort, lauderdale another spring. Break destination just north of Miami Beach. Viagra bloom helps run the city and what he hears on. That call feels big Chris. I think we're GONNA to our beaches down. Florida closes its beaches for one thing hurricanes, and even then few foolish souls always end up on cable news next to crashing waves just before the storm rolls in. Lager blue knows if one beach closes. The party will just move to the next one on a call with west coast city leaders who are a couple of weeks ahead of Florida and their response to the coronavirus. He asks for advice and the answer was a resounding. Don't. Wait for it to get worse before you decide to take action. And that was you know it was one of those times where that sank again? So on Sunday March. Fifteenth health officials in the Bay area are drying up there other worldly order to shut down their entire region Dan, Gelber and Kris lager bloom stand with other officials from there to cities on the steps of Miami Beach City Hall the joint announcement comes the two big spring break beaches will close down effective immediately in Fort, Lauderdale, and at midnight in Miami beach here's Gelber. The message has to be clear to people who are coming anywhere the namely to our cities right now. You can't do that anymore. You know the party's over. Logger Bloom says that closing. The beach felt like a big move at the time I. Think was sort of perceived at the time. Is why are you doing this? And why so soon and maybe now hindsight being twenty twenty weeks of? Why didn't we do it a week sooner? Governor Santa's publicly supports these first beach closures, but he doesn't want to shut down the sand all over the sunshine state because he thinks some people can be there safely if you have a a mother just walking down the the beach with their daughter, I think that can be done safely. That is much different than doing. Jello shot off somebody stomach The Day Miami Beach in Fort Lauderdale closed their beaches. Florida has about one hundred confirmed cases of the corona virus schools are closed statewide by now with the governor's approval, and he also locks down long term care facilities to visitors on March seventeenth. The governor limits restaurants to half capacity and closes bars and nightclubs in those two days since the beach closures, it looks like the number of Florida's confirmed. Cases has doubled from about one hundred just over two hundred, but it's hard to say exactly what that means. You're GONNA see an uptick in the number of cases, not just when more people are getting sick, but also when more tests are being done and on that day Florida reported more new test results than they had on any day before. March seventeenth is also election day in Florida. The presidential primary some states have postponed, but not Florida were definitely voting I. Mean this. This is They voted during the civil war. We're GONNA vote some poll. Workers have different plants. They start calling in to quit a week before the election because they're afraid of getting sick. To, pull workers who do show up in two different cities later test positive for the corona virus, but Santa's defends the decision to hold the election I. Think Having to cancel it. I think in an environment where people were on edge. I think it would've really sent a signal about a panic and I don't think that's the signal that you want Senate. Election Day Florida's the first day. Those Bay area counties in California are closed. The mayor of the City of Miami Francis Juarez sees with the California. Officials dead and wants to follow their lead, so we talked to a friend or a mom very close to our friends with the mayor of San Francisco. London breed breed can confirm on my guy he's he's amazing and you know. He had covert and everything, but he was still working his butt off and. you know we shared information for sure breed says yeah. She Advice Warez to shut city down I, do I told a few mayors. At the time people probably thought I was a little overreacting just a little bit, but when when my department of Public Health Director told me that if we do nothing that this could get out of control, and people can be turned away from the hospital. Like like I I don't. How is that possible in twenty twenty? How is that even possible Suarez? I had to make sure closing. The city was even legal on A. We have to put a lot of internal pressure on her. She attorney with our commissioners to get her to agree to it to finally agreed to it, it might have helped mayor Suarez, tested positive for the coronavirus. He posts openly about it in a video diary. Here's his first entry. Feel. Good I feel like. Have you know some symptoms of what is the onset of a cold? Maybe the onset of a flu what I WANNA do is can have a diary where I. Share with everybody. You know what I'm going through what I'm leaning because inevitably more people are going to get infected, unfortunately, the city of Miami Shuts Down March twenty forced, and by now nearly half a Florida's cases come from just three south Florida counties. This is the densest region in the state. Dozens of cities spread inland from the beaches in North from Miami in Fort Lauderdale City Manager Chris Lager. Bloom describes his area this knowing the geography Varsity, you can blink in your in Oakland Park, and then you can blink again your Wilton Manors, and before you know what you're pumping our Dania beach. With governor Disentis, largely supportive of local control, many of these places are writing their own corona virus rules, and it's getting confusing residents who routinely drive across city lines to run errands or to get to and from work. So lager boom gets involved in another coordinated effort with leaders from other cities in Broward County County officials on March twenty six strongly urged people to stay home, but city officials don't think that goes far enough. They work overnight to hammer a stronger template together, and by the day after the county acts, all the cities have issued their own safer at home orders. Orders! Some details still vary curfews and enforcement, but lago feels like the coordination went well. It was really need to watch very honestly because I didn't think it was possible still rather than follow the local lead as California's governor. Gavin newsom dead Florida's governor to. Santa's is hesitant to draw a statewide order. That would keep people cooped up. You simply cannot lockdown. Our Society indefinitely with no end in sight that is not something that the society would accept. We reached out to the governor's Office for details on their communications with the white. House local leaders the State Department of Health, they declined our interview requests, but did reply with an email. They offer little detail directed us to the governor's public schedule. On. March, twenty sixth the US passes China for the highest number of Corona virus cases reported in the world, and now like California Florida has a cruise ship crisis heading its way it leaders problem now we're will both ships dock. Passengers onto ships are sick with flu like symptoms, some positive for the corona virus, the ships wanted dock near Fort Lauderdale, but the governor and local officials fear. They'll get stuck with the bill and with sick people from out of town. Broward County Commissioner Michael Udine is frustrated. Why would this be a last minute thing when it becomes a humanitarian issue and humanitarian crisis that this gets hurled upon a local government and the local port this time unlike in California president, trump pushes for letting the ships dock in Florida, and ultimately they do CDC, guidelines allow the vast majority of passengers to take charter flights home all over the world more than two hundred flight, a San Francisco. which at this point has been under lockdown for two weeks. On April first during the final crew ship negotiations Florida passes seven thousand, seven hundred confirmed cases of the corona virus more than triple what it was the week before descent follows dozens of other governors across the US have already done and issues a safer at home order to take effect two days later statewide. Point I think even though there's a lot of places in Florida have very low infection rates it makes sense to make this move now. And did consult with with folks in the white. House I did speak with the president about it, and so that order will be coming out momentarily. It will go into effect tomorrow night at at midnight. Florida's shutdown order came almost two weeks later then. California's by the time it went into effect Florida had around ten thousand reported cases of Corona virus and one hundred sixty nine reported deaths win California shut down. There were just over one thousand reported cases and nineteen reported deaths Marissa Florida had ten times the reported cases when Governor Desanta shut down, the state. Does I mean Florida should have shut down sooner, did California? California make better call. Honestly, we don't know because testing by the time Florida shutdown. They'd reported about seventeen times more tests per capita than California at their shutdown. Anna's California started doing more testing. It's numbers junked there now online with Florida's, but we still don't have a clear picture of how many people have been infected in either state. Wow, so California might have had way more cases. They just didn't know it. Still all the public health experts we spoke to agree shutdowns do make a difference. A study just published in nature estimates that nationally the shutdowns and other policies prevented as many as sixty million infections in the US alone. And the number show. It wasn't just government orders. Individual actions also make a difference in Florida cell phone location data first reported by the. Tampa Bay Times shows that people actually started staying home several weeks earlier than the statewide shutdown order, and there were people like Ruth and Bradley. The Yoga teacher near Fort Lauderdale who closed her business here before she was required to, but there are still so many unknowns, and that makes it tough for local leaders and even individuals to make informed decisions. We spoke to Marissa Levine professor of public health at the University of South Florida and she points back to the federal government's failure to lead I. Think the challenge we have here is that. Every state has kind of been left to its own to figure out the path forward. There wasn't really a national. Strategy Levin says in general, it's a good thing for local officials to make their own decisions, but it has to be with guidance resources and data from up top. She says there are federal plans and systems that have been developed to handle a pandemic, and if they'd been used, it would have helped guide these decisions at every level, it really should be an integrated aligned response process when you don't follow that. It gets really messy really fast. and not that it's perfect, but it provides some. Structure in a chaotic time, and that structure is really important. We're still in that chaotic time right now yet. Reopening is moving forward and it's a patchwork depending on where you live. Florida's started reopening just a month after shutting down while California waited longer nearly eight weeks. What's that look like where you are Morita wells mostly happening county by county, the state's abroad benchmarks based on testing case numbers and the ability to trace infected people's contacts, but it's really up to each county to decide how fast to go here in the bay area, most people who can are still working at home, but curbside retail has been allowed since me teens summer camps are set to resume this week and on June Fifth San Francisco said people can start socializing outside their households as long as they stay outside and wear masks. But after an initial flattening of the curve in Midi, pro cases of actually climbed here along with testing. Is that different in Florida? Well, that's cell phone. Location data shows that people are moving around again. Cases are going up to during the first week of June the state has been reporting some of the highest figures since the pandemic began where I am in south Florida. The reopening has gone more slowly. Slowly than the rest of the state, but the beaches are back and restaurants and bars are open at limited capacity. Still as local leaders loosen restrictions. They're also saying we're not out of the woods yet. And even as businesses reopened with limitations, it's not clear if people trust that these rules will keep them safe. Ruth Ann. The Yoga teacher is still teaching on Zoom even though she technically allowed to reopen. Reopen Yeah. We're all having to make our own decisions here, too, like I have two young kids at home and I would love to put them back in preschool and camps this summer. But how do I know it's safe? How am I supposed to know what information to pay attention to? It's like our data colleague Melissa. Lewis told us were all the doctor. She's of our own households and it feels. Feels so true. We all have this responsibility, but not the knowledge professor. Levin says the government's role to give us accurate information, so we can make informed decisions. I think everybody needs to assess their own risk well. It would be really nice if there was a risk assessment tool that was easy to use. So you know you and your book club or friends? Neighbors who want to have a backyard barbecue? This is a good opportunity to have those conversations. What have you been doing to protect yourself? Here's what I've been doing. And how can we work together to make sure when we get together were protecting each other. We are still living in the middle of this pandemic. A. Lot of schools still don't know what they're gonNA. Do in the fall. Wearing a mask has become politicized. We've seen armed protests against closures and let's not forget as we're recording this. The US has confirmed one hundred and twelve, thousand, one, hundred seventy four deaths, and many experts believe that numbers and undercount and we know that even with the limited data picture. We have black, Latin, Max and lower income. People are being disproportionately affected by the virus. And now there's this historic uprising against racism and police brutality, bringing tens of thousands of people together to protest across the nation gatherings that may lead to more spikes. Still Levin says she remains optimistic that. That America can harness this moment the protests and the pandemic to make real change I think we have a great opportunity in this upheaval to rise and come together in a way that we've never done before and I think it's going to require a kind of leadership that we may not have seen yet, but a leadership at all levels people really standing up and we've seen a lot of people really stand up. Young people older people people in all different walks of life, and now we need in my opinion for that to coalesce, and then be supported by the. The. Authority figures if you will. But. we could really do something great here. Thanks Maria Lago of cake and Katie so tall ski of L. R. N.. This story was co reported by reveals Lance Williams Lower Morale Melissa. Lewis Lee producer Emily Harris. Today we've been talking about the corona virus, but before the pandemic hit, the US was in the middle of another public health. Emergency opioid addiction. For the past few years, our reporters at reveal have been investigating how America treats people with addiction. What they uncovered his dark corner of the Rehab Industry that profits by sending people seeking treatment to work for no pay. Starting July fourth, we're going to tell you that story. Over six weeks in reveals first cereal called American Ri. Have be sure to check it out. Johnson edited this week show with help from Esther Kaplan and sue thanks to Juba meaningful production help special thanks to the Cova tracking project at the Atlantic for their data on tests and the New York Times for their data on cove, nineteen cases and deaths special. Thanks as well. The Holly Kernan, Ethan Lindsey. Vinnie Tong and Scott Schaefer from Kate. And Alicia Zuckerman tarrant shepherd, and Tom Hudson from wwl RN Victoria Netscape, our General Counsel Talkie Tele Nita's is supervising editor. Production Manager for the last time. This week is a Wedneday in a Hosa. Wedneday is moving onto other horizons and we are going to miss her so much. If you've listened to reveal for any length of time, I should let you know that Menendez. Hands has been on every episode that you've heard. She has been fundamental an instrumental everything we do here and she makes me better at my job and I cannot even put into words how much I'm going to miss her. When Day in a hotel you and your family and I wish you the best. Sound Design team is the dynamic duo. J., breeze Mr Jim, Briggs Fernando Man Joe Arruda. That helped this week from amy. Mustafa and Clare See Not Mullen. Are CEO's Krista Schaumburg Mad. Thompson is our editor in chief and our executive producers. 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"Hi, france. Welcome to episode of that. Sounds fun. I'm your host Anne f down so happy to be here with you today. We continue our any S summer twenty nineteen series today with our sweet friends, Nick, Emerson are any Graham, threes, the music you hear in the background just reminder, this is the instrumental from the any Graham three song by rhino. Neil, also known as sleeping at last, if you haven't check this stuff out, you've got to do it, and particularly make sure you listen to the song with lyrics, and go and read the lyrics are so moving and really for those who we've been friends for awhile, you know that I had some painful experiences with the male threes, that made it hard for me and Ryan song, and how he talked about threes really started me toward journey of healthy living with threes. And so, I really encourage you to listen to the song and get all of his stuff are threes on the show today, Nick Emerson. Two of my very favorites. Here's the thing when you wanna talk to a three you wanna talk to three who is willing to show up honest, and true and strong, not just strong. And I think you're gonna love that about Nikki Marissa's. So as we've said, from the beginning, my hope and prayer around this series is that, that Matthew twenty two would really come to life, where Jesus says, love the larger God with all your heart, and with all your soul with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment and the second is like it love your neighbor as yourself. So my hope is, if you are three this will help you to love God and yourself, more have more grace with yourself. And if you love three, like I do if you have threes in your life that you care for that this will help you to love them better as well. And so I we will have Beth mcchord here, telling us a little bit about kind of an overview of threes, and then we'll have Nick amorous. All right. Friends, we are ready to talk about the, any agreement threes, and our firm breath, mcchord is back with us. Thanks for doing this. I love her so great. If y'all aren't following her on Instagram your any coach and then her website, your any coach dot com has so many resources where you can learn more deep, dive and get ready for the books that are coming out. This fall, your new book becoming us, and then a book for each type as well. So from two different publishers, but yet in two thousand eighteen we're going to have ten books. It's very normal, how we all do. Okay. Speaking of who does that kind of work. Let's talk about threes. Exactly. Right. I've tapped into my three. Yeah. For sure he did. Give us kind of an overview on threes. Yeah. So we've been talking about the core. Motivations behind each type. So the core fear of the three is the fear being unsuccessful failure incompetent, a Meyer, -able incompetent worthless. So what they desire is to be admired respected to have high value in regard to be worthwhile and successful at all things. So second place is losing to them. If you ain't I your last yet, Ricky Bobby says, and so for them the core, weakness where the passion is deceit. Now, this is that they deceive themselves into believing that they're only the image, they present to others, so they're constantly having to check off the list of either goals, or to do list, and that feels really good to them, and it's absolutely horrible. They don't. So if they set goals, they only set goals that they know that they can achieve, and they're going to achieve it because their fear of of not. So think about them as my husband was a place kicker in college, and there's the same good as your last kick for them. It's yours. Good. As you'll ask success. So if I have always all day I mean, like if I have a list of ten things I need to do that day. Oh, great. Check that one off. Yes. A little like dean. Yeah, but then, okay, I could to the next thing. And so they don't even take time to relish, in the successes that they have because they have to go that next thing. So it's really hard. So what they'll do is they have. Kind of a superpower to where they come into a room and they can gauge the room really well, like what would be successful here? What would be admire? But what is everybody want from me? What is everybody wants, and they can shape shift instantly in talk about things that probably they're really not that skilled at? Yeah. So they can kind of, in Belhadj the truth, and just kind of go with the flow to seem in my Rable. Now they really do a lot of things. Well, so they are very Myra people. But what you understand underneath that surface is a real deep fear of being seen or exposed for something less than the successful image. So they're always striving, and I have a lot of threes that will come to me for coaching and say, I just wanna learn how to exhale I don't even know how to do that, and Huma know who I am what my feelings are. So that's a really big pain point for them. Now what they long for is to here. You are loved for simply being you. You don't have to earn it or cheat or perform for it. And that's really what Christ on offers us, right? Like he did it all force his Aqa. Complements our, our compliments so threes, can literally rest in his care like a sheep would to shepherd just in his arms. But that's a really hard place for threes to go. But totally possible. See it all the time. And when they do they are still excelling there unstoppable, they're unstoppable. But it's at this peaceful, restful, gentle heart. Yeah, but that is just killing. It is really amazing thing. And, you know, I used to you're not talked about a lot, I used to really struggle with male threes. God has brought some really great male threes in my life in the last year and a half literally to go, like, look at a healthy version, you like, look at, and it has been so life-giving because they are so they just get it all done. So fun to be around, guess, when they're healthier on the same team. And that's what I would probably say just for anyone. That's listening is people will say, like especially we're coming out with the marriage book, which type showed I void or which type should I marry I'm like it's not the type it's how healthy average or unhealthy. They are. And we call it being. Aligned misaligned out of alignment with Ospel when we know who we are. And whose we are we are soaring is beautiful. I don't care what why number are. Yeah. That's right. But one, we're not doing what? We're all the worst, we are all the words really so anyway. So, yeah, that you're seeing the. Tell me what the gift is that threes offer the world. Oh, man, just the amazing ability to one shape shift, and that is a gift like into excel at anything like they will adapt. And they'll see some that needs to happen. And they'll be able to knock it out of the park, they'll break it down into bite size goals, they'll have mission statements I mean precision detail, but then a lot of fun to like, when they get to being really healthy than a fun to this accomplishment. And so what, what you might hear from the to, to that you have on your show is you might hear a little bit about themselves or playing off of each other's accomplishments. There might be even some competition going on behind the scenes like you may not even see. Or here. But there might be some competition like Hussein the best answer, and other killing it, and then or a man, I forgot to say this one thing or didn't say that, right? I hope I'm not exposed. So there's going to be a lot of that kind of interplay, depending on how you know, they're doing in the in the moment, but you won't probably hear it because that's the whole point. That's their goal. That's shifting for me. Exactly. All right. Let's listen to it. Here is my conversation with our immigrant threes Marissa, and Nick. Nick Esa tell you the first thing and then I'll let you get to know so far. We've recorded over half the shows only the threes and the ones got here early. No one else got here. Like we are starting ten minutes before you had to be here, early everywhere. Yes. Yeah. If you're on time you're late. Exactly, exactly. And if I'm earliest, I get to pick my seat. I. Oh, wow. Okay. This function here. Okay. I tell now you can get to know. Maria. Tell us we're we're only doing first name tell us your name, what you do and that'll be good. You can say wife, mom stuff, too. So I kind of puts you in. Yeah. And as many boxes as possible, right? So I work for able, formerly known as fashionable. I'm on the marketing team Nair so yeah. Now get to focus mostly on our messaging and branding and working with our influencers, and all that kind of stuff. So that's how fill my days. But then I also married to Jeff, who's a songwriter in town, and we have two sweet little boys. Clay in Charlie clay district. Three in Charlie is five months today. How what numbers Jeff, he's a four wing three or that's our? Oh, do you think you wing to, to? I'll just say out loud, to people require people asking a lot of questions about wings, and we're gonna do Acuna episode of the end of all this, but also your wings are the ones they have to touch your number. So you're three and you wing to four or two because they just like a bird, the Mahdi is the main, but the wings are touching. So you either you wing to a to Jeff, your husband wings four to three. Yeah. Which is actually nice because I think we can understand the three. Innis young any. You think you are one other friends that I was really you never did I get into this? But I had a lot of identity crisis around the Graham for a while. So I don't know what you want to start. Let's talk Nick tell us about yourself on this Nick and a teaching on the teaching pastor at new vision to search in Murfreesboro. And I am married to an amazing woman named Laura. We've been married for almost fourteen years. She's put up with this before two years. We have three amazing babies Eva, who is ten Jackson who is non the Nash who is four. And then we got a new lever, doodle, that is my wife keeps telling me. He's our fourth child. I haven't given in yet having given in yet. But and she's a to g is a too. She's a nurturer. She will sometimes sacrifice yourself to take care of others. That is her all all of it, so. Yeah. Merson I have been friends since before I moved to Nashville. She was my very. Friend here. Nick, you and I have been friends through three different churches and me having jobs too. But I loved it. You were in hendersonville, and then you went to church and Texas. We both love love the people there. And now you're back here. I love it. Okay. So let's, let's talk about how you figured out your number why I mean, one of the one of the cool things about y'all getting to record after we release some shows is I'm seeing what people are wondering what people are talking about around the shows. So tell me why you wanted to figure out your number and, and how you did it you go first step because it was a journey. Yeah. So I'm one of those people when something gets really hyped and becoming a thing I tend to like young why people care about the semi. But I also super curious and wanted to, you know have the answer. When people would ask, what number you? And a lot of my friends are typing me as certain things. All right. And then, you know, the test, which there's lots of mixed opinions about, I was getting multiple answers on and really had this identity crisis of, you know, I don't know a number. I am not going to care about. It was probably a self-protection thing that I didn't know and go there, but really, what helped me go through this, my smog through church, actually decided to do a little break from our curriculum and do the right back to you as a group study. Yeah. And so it was really digging into that 'cause the tests again just getting multiple errors. So is actually really reading the book and taking a process. Yeah. And seeing like Susanne talked about the motivation. Like that's really where it came through for me was realizing how motivated, and especially the one vs three one's really wanting to be perfect as far as morality and righteousness. But threes really more about the Embiid and like what other people think and kind of really caring about. That I really was able to find the differentiator between those two and then twos was coming up a lot, but realizing oh, I can have this two wings. So there's some Tunis there. So really reading digging into helped, and having other people talk about it with me and see see that in you that strewn you and all that was helpful. Yeah. Nick, how did you figure out your three and wife? I have a friend in Texas Ross, who is all about the Graham. And I was like, man what? No, I don't need another something to tell me what I am in. So he's like, come on. You need to you need to he helped me take it because I probably would have not been truly honest because I want people to think something of me which reveals even more my minutes. In. So we were talking about, and then when I found out what I was it was I didn't like it. I didn't like something telling me in reading my mail, because it was because it has never been that real before in another. That sounds kind of weird, but just you're kind of all your stuff is laid out there in. I felt very exposed like I don't like this. I don't like this. And then listen into the sleeping that last song three I didn't like it, and I was like I don't like this. Listen to his podcast are like I don't you know that I don't like this song, and so, but also it's the song in the background today show. Which is awesome. But I get it. I mean nobody nobody. Nobody likes being that reveal. Yeah. And I couldn't there was no defense either. Like it, it was so point, it was so important. I was just like this really is this explains a lot, though. And once you kind of understand some of the background of why you do the things that you have felt have been so normal to you. You're like, oh, not all of that, healthy, not all of that good until before you can really change something you have to be aware of it. So it's been really helpful and free into me. So we should probably save for the end of the show. But I just can't get off my mind. I would love for you neck to pastor the threes, who are listening for a second, only because I think of all my, I cry almost every show. Of all my friends, the ones who I think suffer the most spiritually might be threes, because they there's so much fight to not give in to how much you are concerned about how you're perceived and it just makes me it breaks. My heart watching threes. I used to really dislike male fan because I had some really bad ones. Trick me, not personally it in a church leadership way. And then, and so would you just kinda pass through the threes, the mail, and maybe female threes about like? You need. Yeah. Here's here. Here's the conversation. The Holy Spirit has with me probably twelve times a day. And it's this Nick, you're no f-, not because of what you do or the stage you're on. But because I've made you enough and I can say that right now. And but I have to remind myself of that all the time, because I have this tendency when preach a good message man, I'm like I did it. I performed I danced. I did everything to do. So people will affirm me and like me in. I feel like Luis Burgos Nick, you are enough for you walked on the stage because of major enough. And so Nick, if you're always trying to earn something if you're always trying to get something if you're always trying to be affirmed. The race will never be over. You'll never get to route. No. You will never assery friends. I feel like y'all don't get rest. And you know what's interesting, I didn't know I didn't get rest until I recognized that I'd never have rested. Really? Like I've had this conversation. My wife. I'm like, I'm so tired. She's like why? I don't know. I mean I went to bed. But when you always feel like you're on. Right. When you always relax Otani perform. There are humans involved, rightless, Tom, the you can never. I never let myself just truly be mean that's another word like, Nick, you're just allowed to be you don't have to always. Do you don't always have to perform? You're allowed to be and, and tell them like, babe. I'm really tired. And she's like wonder whether it is, and like receipt, you face. And so it's okay to be you don't have to perform. You can take the mask off there is there is no golden sticker that you need to earn today, and that's hard. I mean that goes against everything in my being that I want to do, but it's tire into tiring posture when you don't rest. What do you hear from the Holy Spirit? Like what what's your what do you need to hear from God as three? Yeah. Very similar, and even adding in the concept of life's not a competition. I think I tend to compare and compete in everything. Even things that aren't, even connected to me, personally, but for work, like, I'll compare our company to their companies are the past nonprofit, I would always be looking at the landscape in wanting to be the best because I'm associated with it. So it has to be the best and fill in the blank anything in your life. I just wanted to be the best and so just realizing that because we know that comparisons, the thief of joy, and that if I can truly step back and realize I don't have to can. Pete, and be the best than I can really find joy apart from that. And, and very similar to with the, the not doing and just being. Yeah, it's hard. But when I let myself, actually get there, it's really free yet. Tell me a little bit about the work. You've had to do to find rest for yourself. Just having to be really intentional. I have to schedule days to rest. You know, I mean, which Hello, we're told we're super serious about the ten commandments of murdering, but we aren't like that serious. Yeah. And I'll, I'll work real hard not to kill somebody. And figuring out what it is that brings me rest to, you know, that doesn't look the same for everybody. In a specially I think as stages of life was changed over the last few years, having to even more intentional. Because free time doesn't necessarily come as easy either, but yeah, just just being more intentional about what that looks like because it just doesn't happen on its own anymore. It makes sense. What about you? Neck, what's been the journey of getting healthy enough to find rest? Are we on real talk? I'm on that journey. Yeah. I had someone asked me. So Nick, what do you truly do to employ into rest in it took me a minute. I was like. I don't know in in. That's really sad. Right. I mean, like like chilling with my kids and playing with them, but this is really twisted, like part of me is when I play my kids, I'm better dad. So I'm winning. And then with my wife like going for saying that dad's meal that I can perform through them in the pool. And I've read a bedtime story and I checked everything off the bucks. So now I'm gonna get dad. I, I one today even going on days with my wife and need to be a good husband not only a good husband for me. But because people are watching me all the time. So have to perform, even in marriage. Right. And into it's just. Really? So what I do arrest. I like to go get shaves. Yeah. Bald and beautiful. And so, we'll go and get a hot towel shave on occasion. Like that's really relaxing in the reason why because I don't have to be on. I don't have to talk. I don't have to perform because the person typically shaped me doesn't wanna talk to me. You just want to do their job and not talk in. It is so relieving, which sounds so weird to say, but it's like I can go into this dark room, not have to say anything anybody and just sit there and be still like that is so wrestled. Me, that's a massage for me too same thing. 'cause see getting my haircut is curled. We still gotta talk the whole social thing. That's right. That's right. My hairdresser knows more than anybody should know offering. But a massage I mean don't talk. Yeah. What can I do? What's can another number another person. That's not a three what do you need from us to help with this? I feel like of all the types, I want to help I wanna help threes. If I can't I mean, that sounds, I'm not that powerful. But what, what do you need from your people to help you be the healthiest version of you? I think one of the things for me is in Laura. My wife does really well. She doesn't have an expectation of what I should be like. And she's even apologize to me because I'll be like normal just kinda chill. And she'll be like, are you feeling okay because you're, you're not being funny? You're not filling up the room and she she's apologized to me. She's like you know what? I'm sorry. You're allowed to just sit and be in not have to be the center of attention. And so giving me permission to not be on just give me permission to be me like whatever that looks like in knowing that I'm no less MU when I'm quiet and still when I'm on stage performing or preaching or whatever I think just having permission just to not have to be the person who's allowed is so who's the funniest or who you know, whatever in just being like Nick, you just be a part of the crowd today like that is, that's what I need people to remind me of Nick, you don't have to be anything charge here. Yeah. Yeah. What about for you vase, same? But also, I think I do still wanna feel appreciated and valued in seen, you know, and because I don't want that to, I don't wanna be looking for that outside of just my people. You know, I think it means a lot to me when Jeff can really see that in and say that to me, but at the same time going that deeper level and, and knowing that it's more than just what I'm doing. It's, it's more about who I am really valuing me in that way, for sure. And just letting me know that I don't have to be the best don't have to be perfect. What are you most? Proud of. I mean threes offer a so much threes are so run the world in so many ways. What he must proud of being a three. The Lord has allowed me to have a little Lou what I mean by that is I feel like the Lord has positioned me to speak to all world and what I mean the being an African-American like as a kid or even a teenager. Let me say this way always felt like was I black enough or was I too black, depending on what circles Iran in which a whole nother conversation for a whole nother day. But there was this thing in me them, like is something wrong with me, like I feel like I don't fit into any world. Mike. I have my friends over here who were telling me that I'm not being black enough. Then I have my friends over here that go. Hey, Nick, that was a little too. I don't know what to do with that cultural Elec. Who's to buck? Right. It's have this, like weird spot you fit in, but however seen what the Lord has not just done just in my life. But also with my wife because she's peachy as the day is, you know what I mean? And so we have these beautiful mocha chino babies like that's even true in my own life. And so what I've seen the Lord be able to do just the way he has made me is to be able to talk to all people pretty much all walks of life, which I used to not like that. He's god. What'd you make like why this weird guy who wants friends that look different and in act different in in, like, why would you do that? But the Lord has reminded me in this process, and Nick, I have leveraged you to do something that not everybody can do. And that has been freeing like that's a really free. And so I'm really proud of that, that I can talk to a room of people who look at me, and see my color. I and already come to a conclusion, and I could talk to a room of people who look at me and go you're going to be this way. And then the Lord is able to use me in a way that it just surpasses what they even thought was going to happen in it. It's a bit of a curve ball and I liked it. I like it. You can't put me in the bucks. I love that. Yeah. So I just feel like the Lord has really used that. A big way. So proud of that. I like that what he love about being three about. How are you proud of that? Yes. Same idea just being a networker connector. I love being able to be that person that can introduce friends in any. I've talked about just the joy of having friends from multiple points of life being in the same room like my favorite things, and just knowing that I'm the person who can help. Someone feel really welcome and comfortable and connected. And, and also really seeing in people their gifts and their values and being able to point that out and speak it out. I feel like I can pretty quickly kind of gather who, who people are in and how to connect to them and encourage empower them. I mean I know you know, I've said this to your face before, but I don't know that I would have friends in Nashville. If you and Jason who's on our any Graham nine show if you in Jason witness shared your friends with me with abandoned with no, insecurity with no. Like with anti signs of my friends than this. It was always like, no, no Anne Anne, you can be. All my friends, and so south. And I know that, but you are so great at that in it, it, absolutely change my life. The way you and Jason shared your people with me. That is true. Okay. Here's a question. Nothing is worse than when I feel blink. I mean, I think it's when I fail I or or if I'm seen as incompetent hers remembering early on dating. I was driving and pulling into parking spot. And Jeff was like he might wanna just back out and do that again. Those like excuse me. Are you saying I can't park and his whole thing's Mersa? You're good at everything you can not be good at parking. No. I'm good at everything, but it's, it's so funny, just little things that should not matter if I am seen as incompetent something or not the best thing it's an I see that at work, if I ever get feedback. I have to really pause in ask the Lord to help me, receive it and know that this is not about who I am. This is about bettering what I do. And yeah, it's it's hard for me to hear that. I'm not great. Yeah. Great. Don't worry. Get you girl. You're almost a problem, people tell you didn't do something perfectly. You're like what? What did you say to me, surely, you didn't see that? Right. Nick. What about you nothing's worse than when you feel what not seeing really not seen, but also not known? I mean I put a lot of walls up. So people can only see what I want them to see. Also, a hate the feeling of not being known right, right. In also people, assuming that I'm always okay because. Come in the room and so not being seen and not be known I figured things that really really are hard for me that seems to be my experience with threes in general, is that there is a site of you that you only let your very best friend C and that terrifies you more than maybe some other numbers feel true for you. We'll even with my wife. She supposed to be the closest person to me in their times. I have realized that I haven't even let her fully like I told her something a couple of weeks ago that had never told her before, and I was just like it was really scary. I was like, hey, when the show you like a dark, Sadah me, and I hope you'll still love me, you know, in her being nurturing always. No. But yeah, it's. Yeah. I don't. That's. Don't love that at all. Yeah. Merson. I have been in the same friend group for so long. I feel like I've, I see who you let into you don't share like a big group. I'm like, oh, mercy is I've always feel honored when I see the version that I get because I think she really lets me and because I can see in a big group when you are the strong one is that on purpose. Yeah. Yeah. L, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean just being vulnerable. You know, it have to protect who you're vulnerable, and open. Yeah. Who you let see that you're not best? How has your number affected your spiritual life? In a big way, I think it's really just been like a light shone on some dark things, maybe. And so it is hoped to see that don't have to earn something that's freely given right? And I didn't even realize I was operating with God in that way, or operating with Jesus in that way of in this really twisted. Like I would say or fall short. And I would think now you probably not going to use me Jesus. Because I blew I don't get the I don't get the gold medal because I didn't live up to what you call me to do. And so just recognizing those things, recognizing my been recognizing how normally run going. Wait. Nick, this has never been based on you. It has never been based on your performance. While yet you still a center that for you into that kinda means that before you brought anything to the table. I brought my love to you, and so like that has been a constant theme for me so spiritually. It's allowed me to drink more full of grace. That's rain, by the way, just see, I don't get freaked out. That's that had new sound is ring. So maybe something those of us who like pray for and think toward our three friends and people that we love is just praying that y'all feel the grace of Jesus and your life. What about you Mars? How's it affected your spiritual life, definitely that I would say, just the value of silence? And really knowing that, that's where between you. And god. Okay. And yeah, I mean just in life, but that would lead to time with the Lord and just carving that out in again being intentional. I think the rest in the silence kind of go hand in hand. That's where I'm going to really you're from him and let all the outside noise. But good. And bad follow. So I think that. Valuing that really trying to get into a little fine time to be quiet and silent. And also prioritizing gratitude and really stepping back in. Reminding myself, what I'm grateful for and trying to practice that more, I wanna start a gratitude journal haven't done that yet. Yeah. But I've heard from other friends that I feel like are similarly wired that. That's been really helpful. Yeah. Just to be able to pull back in. Not be worried so much about what everyone else is thinking, doing I had a conversation this morning with a pastor friend, about a younger male three and it was about gratitude about how to teach him how to be grateful. It seems young correct me if I'm wrong, it is not that he is not grateful. It's that he is already moving to the next thing. He wants to get. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. Well, because once you get one goal star it makes you want another. Right. And so it's also before you think the people for the gold star. That's great. Let's add to this. Right. Because they still have one more than I do. Yeah. So you don't pause long enough to enjoy it and be thankful in grateful for the thing that you have gotten in the other kind of hard part of that is somewhere in your head. You think that you had more to do with that than probably did? Right. I mean, it's this, of course I got a goal star. Do you not know? Why did you not see me performed, you know, hugger it I was? And until that's part of it, too. Sometimes you give yourself more credit than you probably should. Fans of counseling. Yes. Everyone started laughing. Mmediately. Yeah. Let them. Yeah. And, you know, I haven't done it in the last not since I've been on my Instagram journey, but it actually was really influential for Jeff he was sitting again, we weren't super familiar with it. He was sitting in a counseling appointment in his counselor. Read off. Hey, let me just read them to do, and it was reading who the floor is. And he was like, yes that all the time me and without any test books or anything it was really helpful for him. But and we've talked about going together again, I think would be really helpful for us. I did some intense counseling years back, but haven't done it in the last recent years, but super fan of it. And you would love to prioritize that again. Yeah. In different seasons. Yeah. You have to very small children and a job. There's a lot. There's. What about what about? Yes counseling. No heart till I did I did only because this is just something. Is one of those things where I've had to die to myself with because in counseling what you're saying is that you recognize that you need some help, which is hard to say it's hard to say me, and my wife went to marriage counseling early on our relationship, and before you're married. Or once you once we were married. My mom had just passed away my younger, brother, came to live with us after we have been married for two months. What was just a hot mess? He was thirteen. Well, I'll been. So you had a twenty two year old twenty four year old raising a thirteen year old and it was just it was a hot mess. The say the least in so we're Tennessee. Then we were in George. Oh, you so in Georgia, and I remember the first day we were walking up to the counselor's office in it said psychological services on and I was like, what do we do? This. Going are we crazy and she kept him what you are? But it's just because you're not it's exposing something that you're not great at right? And so we did. And we walked with that counselor for a year and me. I'm like so when do we get out, when do we get out, when do we get out, is this faster than most couples? Right. You're still making this competition and my wife has engaged more in the counseling than I have because she's just more open to, and she's more willing, but here in the next couple of weeks, I'm about to go on a journey that is gonna really I'm gonna dab in deep to that. And my because I need to on need to, you know, sometimes when you're having co-ceo people in, you say something to them, and they go. I don't know if that's normal what everyone thinks they're like, no, I was sitting with Ross the conference when really started to get churned up in. I was telling him something he was just like you need to tell you why. And then in the, my wife is like babe, you need to talk to somebody, and so I'm at a point that I'm willing to do that. Did I mean like I think for so long I felt like I had to fake something I had the fake health but I'm at a point in my life, where I really don't wanna have to fake anything. I'm just tired. I'm tired of faking stuff. I'm tired of not dealing with the motions because they get in the way of me performing, like I'm just kind of over it into I'm about to engage fully into that. And it's one of the things I'm looking forward to it while not looking for chat for sure felt before I went to on sign and I was like I know this is right? Don't wanna do. I know all the steps, but so I've been more open than ever been with it and it's necessary. It's like change of gore like no one talks about, you changing the your car. But if you go in that, hey checkup, I just make sure I have right thinking, that's have right filters to make sure that I'm processing things correctly. The people look at you sideways and you're like you should go to me. So. Everyone should go into talk to someone an outside person who just is wise. Incan help lead you on the path at least two full health. So we talk about that, again, bit on the show, because we're so quick to pay for a trainer if we have a desire to get physically healthy, we show up at church, and we have mentors, we buy books because we want to get spiritual healthy, but we are hesitant to invest in our mental health. When really God says love, allergic with all your heart soul mind answering, right? So thank you for sharing that tell me what people who are in a partnership with a three eight marriage dating or even work partnership with the three what do you need from an up close partner that helps you be healthy? Honesty honesty. And here's the thing that I think no, I might not receive that honesty. Well. On I blush. When you told me like, hey, you're. Exactly, I need. I need you to be honest, but also be aware that it's gonna take me a minute to fully receive that honesty. But that's okay. Do you need at couched in kind like, sevens, we joke that it's a sandwich gives give a huge compliments the hard thing. Give a huge compliment on your way. I think I can digest that better. Yes. Yes. And so I would say be honest, though. Yeah. And for me, I would say if you have something hard to say doing it more in a one on one, I think where it's worse if I'm humiliated in front of a group, that's where it feels like really? And bear. It actually did that for me the other day, he pulled me as his hey, I want to tell you something instead of saying it in front of the whole marketing team. And I appreciate that so much. 'cause I would have felt so like I wasn't you know, living up to everyone. I mean, it's probably good that everyone else would see that I'm failing. But at the same time, I think does really appreciated him being honest with me on one versus. Yeah. The blast carrion furniture online, because the flesh will come out like I've been situations like on the where that just gave from but you just like poke the bear front of everybody. And I'm in his don't make it right. Doesn't make it right. But my posture in front of a group as opposed to my posture wanna one is totally different. Totally different, the seed can take root when we're on it cannot fully when we if you're going to do that in front of being. So, and it sounds to me like the love from a non three two three is believing that y'all are doing the work to receive the truth. And we. Get to give it to you as easily as possible. There's no reason for anyone listening that loves the three now. We know there's no reason to publicly bring things up. If we can do it privately and actually scripture says private first scripture says, one online to on one then group, right or three. I want here the pastor. But if we're gonna go scripturally to that also kindness, to threes to an and that's my big goal. Is that people will these shows will lead people toward the greatest commandment that they love God, more and others as themselves. You know, like all three get hit because of these shows. And so as we love our threes, and if you're in conflict with them, make it, one on one and couch it with some kind of I mean, I don't know anybody who don't want couch. Eight eight like I love you yell in my face and everybody else's like, please don't. Hey, just interrupted this conversation with our immigrant threes to tell you little bit about our friends at Samaritan ministries with health care prices, the way, they are everyone needs a way to pay for health care health insurance is the solution. We're used to. But is it the best one there is another way? And for the last twenty five years, members of Samaritan ministries have been helping each other with healthcare costs without any help from insurance and it works as a member myself. I semi monthly payment directly to another person with a medical need. You see, I get a notification that tells me who to send it to each month. And I have to remember to check that Email. Then I get to semi payment each month and get to pray for their specific prior requests that they mentioned. And then if I have time if I want to I can sit an encouraging note, along with the money doubt them pay for the medical bills. And when I have my own medical needs as I've mentioned before in the show that I've been dealing with migraines. The first couple of months of twenty nineteen and working with a doctor to figure out how to treat them members will reach out to me in the same way this process works all and it's been working for twenty five years now members are sharing over twenty nine million dollars each month medical costs, again, this is all without insurance. So it is crazy affordable cost range from about one hundred to four hundred ninety five dollars a month depending on your age your household size and the membership option news. You can learn more and sign up at Samaritan ministries dot org. Ford slash that. Sounds fun. That Samaritan ministries dot org slash fat. Sounds fun now back to my conversation with Nick Emerson. Tell me what you wish people knew about you. You don't you can say three or you can say Marisa and knickknacks what he wished people knew about you that we don't. Maybe it is exhausting. Trying to always be. Who I think everyone wants me to be, and then yet, and I think giving me permission to just like you said, like put the mass down and just be me. I think I think a lot of people see threes and think it's effortless and. You know it just comes so easy were putting it all out there. But, but the reality is it can be really exhausting to always try to be on and trying to meet everybody where they're ad and the first thing that comes to mind having the conversation with Laura and. She said, I want you to know that I have withheld affirming, you and preaching all the things because I thought it would lead to you being more prideful and a looked at her. And she said, but I'm recognizing that, that doesn't lead to you being more prideful, at least to you just really being encouraged. And she said, I didn't think that you needed encouragement. Like I thought that you were more than enough in and of yourself, courage. I mean that you or your biggest damn. Yeah. And, and like the kinda stung, but, like the truth of the matter is, we give off a vibe of confidence that is beyond, and we always seem to have it together or have the answer before you have the question. But the truth of matter is, we're probably as insecure. Maybe even sometimes more so than everybody else, and into another towns where you're like don't wanna give them a company because they're just gonna go to their head like. We need that encouragement in Africa mation, that we're walking and doing well with what we've been entrusted with just like everybody else, even though, sometimes we give off this vibe of, I don't need anybody. I'm fully confident. You don't have to tell me that, but the truth of the matter is, like, when my wife, affirms me after previous, babe. That was a really good word. That means more to me than anything else. It really does. It's not that the peop- the notes or they affirmations at church me. That's great. But someone who knows me going. Hey, I see you affirm you and your walk, and you're calling that means more than anything else. And so just it's okay to encourage three there. Hopefully won't become a proud muster. But yeah. Don't then we're gonna create this internal monologue in work harder. You know, so waiting on those up close people to say they will take up more space because apparently I didn't think enough space. It's more so than I'll get affirmation than I'm enough twisted, and especially with my two wing. You know, it's like, I think I have this martyrdom also that I'm know gonna. Do all my performing, but also really trying to meet other people's needs to this together if I'm not being affirmed in that at all. Then I'm gonna either blow up burn out or both. And have you felt that heavy felt a blow up and burn out VIN life? Yeah. When when that happens, what's your next move. I mean it, it, it usually happens with those closest to me in most recent years, Jeff for sure, I mean, it just takes good kind of stepping back and, and reassessing, you know, where am I coming from where did this come from what was kind of the tipping point because I think usually it means that there's way more beneath the surface and stuff that's been building. But I think it comes back to not being appreciated and encouraged and at the end of it, I just realized me and I've been holding all this in and feeling like no one's noticing. No one's caring. And we had just coming back to where my getting my value from and takes the Lord to for sure. Paige, Nick, I'm thinking about our friends who love people that are threes, that are not believers, right? So they love some threes. Who don't yet know Jesus and don't know grace. I think about three that. I love that's not walking with the Lord and he is super accomplished. And so his conversations with me or like what do I not have that? I made I have everything that I mean, everything is working the question is, how do we get three to? The question is, how do we how do we model experience Jesus in front of threes in a way that's tractive to someone who's so accomplished most of the time. I can't think of it like this. I think of it as, if you're always painting if you're always painting and you're like, man, look at this artwork, making this art, we're gonna make this art. We're making and no one is ever told you that listen, you're not who you are based on your artwork. You're really have something to offer even if you put the paintbrush down. It's what I think about in that is, is friend of yours is so accomplished that so accomplish. It's like, hey man. What would you be? Like if you stopped like what like what who are you? If you're not holding the brush, and you don't have artwork to show off in that's a scary place. I mean, because then you have to ask yourself, some hardcore I mean me, unknown fully by Jesus. But to put the paintbrush down and to not have artwork this show, people freaks me out, right? But in those places or where I'm more open to hearing the truth because I'm not too busy perform. Warming and painting. So I can receive that truth. And so it's just that is this challenge of. Hey, take a step back for a week in not do what does that look like who? Are you being when you're not doing? And I think if we can have those conversations and then give them permission to not have to perform pain, or whatever, then I think they will see man okay if I'm not doing something I don't feel like enough but yet, here's his person Jesus who says I love you full on which blows your mind right into, I think, just who are you, when you put the brush, now let's wait morass, what about for men or women who are threes and interesting about national is there a lot of male pastors that are threes. And I've met in this town doesn't. That's very anecdotal evidence. That's not scientific evidence. But I would imagine in your job, you meet a variety of women who you mostly work with and the threes that you may not necessarily be faith people as right now. Yeah. I mean, I think it's definitely that same line of just who are you apart from your film, the blink your role, your job your accomplishments, your identity? You know, I think because I think that's just where we so naturally go is. Hi, I'm Merson I'd do this. You know. That's everyone's first question. What do you do? Yeah. Yeah. On the money is your talk about what you do. That's like the you cannot talk about your job, even for a seven that was wait. What if I don't tell them what I do? What I tell them I can't imagine for threes, when it's like when you don't get what you do. So I've even liked. This is totally tangent. But in social situations, you know, when you ever get to that point, just to say, like how do you fill your days? You know that opens up the conversation. A little bit more than an I mean we have a friend that didn't have a job for a while. And I remember even watching her like in that situation people be like what do you do in her kind of be like what nothing right now? And she. No. But how do you feel that can be answered so many different ways? And I mean that could still fall into the trap of doing, but I feel like it could lead, you a little bit more into being like you know, this is how I've chosen to spend my days, but it's not who I am a little bit more. So, so I think that's the biggest thing with raises. We decide dentist so much with what we do. And that just equals are worth. So I think that's what's increased my sympathy. So much as I realize that my faith friends who are threes. Have the initial monologue of performed get gold stars, and they are also trying to fight their flesh. And so you'll just don't stop. And I just think I will also say something thinking about is I feel like I publicly threes and apology because I have been I have not been sympathetic toward threes because of my own pain in my own experience. It didn't know I was a three so it's not you're right. But so I'm sorry for the ways I haven't been sympathetic towards your number search your personality type in this situation because of my own experience, and I'm growing so much sympathy for threes, an empathy toward threes. I go, what can I do? What can I do to help you not fight for a minute wanting to just as a female three and especially in becoming a new roles a mom, the last couple of years, I think it's been helpful to I hear you saying, you know, with your dad role you still put it in the bucket of, of the doing and I can see that. But on the flip side for me. Well, it doesn't equal rest. It has helped separate. I think a little bit of the just trying to perform, gee, there's bully still times, where I'm comparing my mom status to Instagram people. Yeah, please. But I've seen some really sweet times where I can just sit back milk. You know what I have nothing to do in this moment, except sit here and be with my kids that we're not getting anything accomplished. I'm gonna put my phone the other room. I'm going to not care so much discipline girl minister. But I think that's been good in special. Maternity leaves for three all my gosh. My first maternity leave. I was like I have all this time, what am I doing felt so aimless and restless, and I started my blog backup or meant. But this time around having a little bit more wisdom, and foresight coming into, like you know what I'm gonna spend these three months just being and for the most, there's a couple times I'd post, you know, made some cookies during out time. My friend was like stubbing three. You had a meeting with me for Meshal reasons, and then you're like this maternity leave. And I was like Marissa. I didn't realize yourself eternity like but for the most part, ninety percent of it. I really did this let myself be, which was such a gift when I'll get to do that. So man, what a gift for you to share that with us, just because I imagine there are so many women and moms who, no matter their number struggle with what Instagram says about being a mom, and what good mommy looks like and for three to tell us to put our phones down should be like the highest level direction. So, yeah, that matter. So thank you for sharing that. How do you also what say you said, this isn't necessarily rest? But I think it is twinned finding rest and finding sleep added sleep to your life. Right. But your soul has rested by having kids in ways that maybe some other people want to do that as well. And what, what a great remind like my kids have taught me that I'm enough in ways that never hoped or imagined. Like my youngest Nash, she's a little creek, but I love. But like his chief things he wants me to do is just to sit with them. How does he remind me? He's four four he didn't he didn't. He didn't want me. He doesn't want me to go do anything he doesn't want me to make them laugh, like he reminds me like in the moment on enough because I'm with him. Right. And it's not because I preach on the stage. Like, sometimes he forgets he's like, oh, yeah. You talk stage, son. That's what makes me awesome. In for Nashes perspective. What makes me awesome is that I'm there that's enough for him. And so as you're talking to Kim, white man, there, I have these three little reminders, every single day that is not based on what I think I'm doing. But the fact that I'm there and I'm willing just to be. Title as soon as they were born. And they and they love me selflessly like they like I might be a total rumpus, you know, and just totally ruin it in there. Like I forgive you that you're like. Right. But they're just I'm telling visual beacons of hope that Jesus is placed in my life that goes. Hey Nick, I'm just gonna remind you through the faith of this kid that you are enough. And so it's just been as you're talking, I was like, oh, the great. Yeah. But great. But yeah, what a gift for threes that children. I mean it sounds like to both of you that there was a shift in you. And when children came along towards yourself anything it sounds like you. It's a priority shift. And so it's just perspective and identity and all those things. Okay. Three start procreating. But you and I were single together for a long time. What do you say to the single people who want to procreate, but aren't getting too, but they need something that steps into their life. What kind of what can you invite into your life to help you find that rest? If it's not kids right now. I mean, I found a lot of joy in purpose as a single person in pouring into my church in finding ways to really use my gifts. Whether that was taking teen Africa loving, you know, college, girls are newly out of college girls and helping with Fini groups and all that kind of stuff. So I think just finding the people 'cause I think, whether they're a four year old little person, you created or a twenty six year old girl in your church that you can disciple. I think just being with those people that you've said, you know, I'm gonna love you intentionally and kinda put down the walls with, I think, and I think there's something to in knowing that you're doing something through the church or through something that you really passionate about that, that it takes away, some of the performance part of it, and it's still going to be there. But I'm always going to run from pain. No matter how healthy I guess it's not going down the continuum it can be a little more fear. That's it. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. What would you say? Next man, I would just echo. When do something that you don't advertise and. What I mean is if it's having a buddy at a school where you go and just once a week lunch with him, if it's disciple, somebody if it's helping somebody or even like helping someone not having to get credit for it. Like, hey, I gave you this idea, but you can have it. Why don't I don't need anything in return? But doing something without having to advertise is nourishment, just. Spectrum. No, I, I think that that resonates I think 'cause I as I was talking about my. Yeah, but I still getting recognition for those, like, here's Marissa Lagos taking everybody off. You know, it's like, yeah. Message. Impatient. Right to do something good, and perverted, so you can get praise right in, but like doing an in huge thing that's hard. It's hard. Did you do did all kinds of things like when you don't because I am so good. At telling people how awesome I am into just doing this just one of the things Lord has been teaching me. Like, Nick, you don't have to tell everybody that you're doing what I've called you to do. It's okay. So I would you say that anybody can do that? Yeah, man. I remember you remember this when I came back from one of Africa chips Lee ended up really diving into a group of refugees here and loving on them. And I mean that was selfless in heart good in for my three heart. I'm sure looking back. I'm just saying things. Like that. Yeah. Just kind of diving into. Serving a good word. Tell me is there anything we didn't say about threes. You wanna make sure we say. Think think think gave him a full dose. Of all about is. I do want to say I think it's so funny. I mean leading up to this podcast as like we have to be the best. Like you know it's just so funny. My three Nestle showing so much mon- through because I did more research, like let me know everything about myself. So this is the second reread chapter three road. Yeah. Remind me who I am. Yeah. Listening to more podcasts about it. I gotta be prepared. Gotta get get the ribbon. Yeah, it makes you feel better. No one else has said that they wanted to win, but everyone has felt a lot of pressure to prepare. I'm like I just want you to talk about you. It's not that hard, but y'all did an incredible job. Thank you for doing this. Such models of I will not put you I will, I will Goldstar you in that you were models of pursuing health. But I appreciate that you didn't show up and act like in and model we've gotten their us attorney both showed up really honest for us. And I am really grateful that will help so many people who are threes, but for those of us who love three's, it's super helpful so, okay. But the last question we always asked because the show's called that sounds fun and tell me what you do for fun. Good. Well, it's fun. But also, I mean, I think when I think of fun, I think right now because I'm so tired in the end of life. What's resting going to a beat? That's like the most restful thing is like toes in the sand listened to the ways reading a book. Yeah. No kid, what beach thirty thirty. We're going in the fall, but with kids. So it's not. But it's a fall, which is still. Yeah. Cabin in Colorado, with the fire being chilly outside and not having him agenda, just be like, hey, I want to sit in front of the fire all day. It's okay in KOMO in a Cup of coffee. I mean I mean on that you showed up with your eighth and rose. Genetic mainly talks about what today's coffee decision that coffee of guy. I do like coffee I do. I do. Yeah. Well before you leave we have a little gift for you. Richard Gough gave everybody a copy of the game. And so you with your own family. So we wanna make Jim even hands it you right? Nine everyone dinner shows up with the game for everybody. Thank you for being on the show. We will win for shit. Friends. My gosh, don't you just love him. Don't you just love? Three's. I know I know maybe you've had different experience with threes than I have or maybe years, it's been similar. But I'm just so thankful what continues to be true in this summer. Twenty nineteen is that my compassion, and my tenderness toward the other numbers just keeps growing, as I hear from them and hear their hearts in here where they are. And what they're experiencing. So I hope that you will share this with some threes in your life that you love. If you are three just pass this around to your friends, and family, and let them hear your experience. If you need for me. You guys embarrassingly easy to find any f downs F as in favorites. Because today, the threes are my favorite so thankful for them thankful for what threes offer the world, I'm thankful for what these specific threes, Mersa, and Nick have offered in my life, but threes in general have challenged me to, to work harder to achieve more and. To find the best option. In what I wanna do. And I'm so thankful for them. So if you need me, any f- downs, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. Okay now for my fun Marin gonna go to light. So you can't get any more fun than that after you do a conversational podcast to get to go eat lunch together. So I'm going to go out and do something. That sounds fun to me. You do the same. We'll see you back here on Monday with our any grand fours, y'all have a great weekend.