20 Burst results for "Marantz"

"marantz" Discussed on Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

06:10 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

"Universe spell. You sign from Bart will no doubt have been a silver dollar? She thinks find silver dollars everywhere that he's leaving them because he was really into silver dollars and she's got some pretty outrageous claims and she's got photographic evidence. I don't know you know it's funny because my mom and I have different. That's where we diverge. She believes in supernatural stuff. That I don't but I trust her so much. Yeah and so. She's had a couple of different ghosts experiences. Her father. I take him face value like I think she had those experiences. I don't believe in that but I also believe she had those experience. Yeah so apparently. She's finding silver dollars every couple minutes. Spartan died that's so sweet and it really isn't even worth trying to figure out whether you what would be the winner me proving to her. That's not half but I'm tempted really tempted. Because she'll go like that from her. She says like Oh this happened on the cruise that she took my niece. They looked in the change because it was happening and they both agreed how many how many silver dollars are in this change. I and there was like three or four and they got back to the room after a day at shore and there was one on the ground and then they looked in the change person. There's like five or six and then they took a picture of it So I go straight to. We have a fun mystery. What I know is that Barton didn't come out of the clouds and put the money in there now so I have to accept that she's lying. Stop or I've got explain this word. The silver dollars come from and then I get really excited about trying to figure out a plausible explanation for this other than Barton descended the the heaven but I gotTa be careful that. I'm not doing that out loud agreed. You should let her have that and believe what she wants to believe. Do you remember men in black whenever they would show up and they go? There was a leak of methane gas cloud from a local swamp and it was ignited by a flash bolt of light like they would make this in crazy thing that happened to explain how the alien they just saw. I like that. That's funny great movie. I can watch that again seen in so many years that I don't remember anything about it. The first one is a masterpiece we could do a will Smith Marathon fucking love it. Does your dad call you any pet names go me tax or do we did and grunt about ground death? It didn't bother me though. I didn't feel like they're making fun of sweet. Yeah also you know as a superhero. Most of the time I was Super Dax and I would show up and I would rescue her from all kinds of situations. Land Hewitt play a role. So they're also transplant right from the jump. No evolution saving everyone from age five. I would rescue her all the time and I had a Cape and everything. You know the whole nine okay. Andrew Andrew Marantz did Joan diddy and say writers are always telling someone out yes She did say that. The preface of her books slouching towards Bethlehem. We've yo she did say that. She regretted he said read. It gets more traffic than twitter or Amazon or Netflix. So he then emailed me. I don't believe that but go ahead. Okay he emailed me after he said. I think I said that right. It gets more traffic than Amazon or twitter. That was true when I wrote the book but might not be true anymore. Given how fast these things change and that's US traffic not world traffic. Okay okay so I have not distinguished world versus us. 'cause I read this after I did my research. It's consistent two movies. It's always about world versus shirts. Yeah so is the big question but according to my research twitter has three hundred and thirty million active monthly users and that sounds right from the last one I did with Adam misery and read. It has four hundred thirty million active monthly users so that is more than twitter. I believe the twitter claim. Yeah Amazon. The Emma's okay. Yes so on. Wikipedia LIST OF MOST POPULAR WEBSITES. Amazon is above. Read it. Okay yeah I also were shocked by that but he knew on every six SEC. Oh my God I know I mean honestly Netflix. But I guess net flicks. I didn't see not flicks on the list. Above right so a Netflix would have to be done in a different way. Because certainly they don't have over three hundred million subscribers. That'd be all of America if you added up in the attention economy. How many hours people spend a net flicks versus Red Eye? That to me would be a toss up. Yeah yeah that's true okay. Does John Oliver say business. Daddy yes takes a jab at each parent. At and T. over terrible service. I got you business daddy. It's really funny. He said that the podcast. The daily show was like Opie and Anthony for Nazis. I didn't know what Opie and Anthony was did you. Opie and Anthony is a very very popular radio. Show for a decade yeah. I didn't know that I mostly know about these people here. Listening to Howard of course aware of all of his peers competition. And so we'll talk about all of my opinions of all. These people are pretty skewed by the OPIE and Anthony Show. You've been on it. Yes in New York. Oh cool I had never heard of it. Okay is it an t social or antisocial according to the general pronunciation on line when you type in how to pronounce in that thing comes up. It's an t social antisocial. Like my aunt social I would have said Anti. He's super antisocial. I say but I would say. That's pretty antisocial. If I was describing someone's behavior you asked me if I was feeling an antisocial. I would ask you if you were feeling antisocial. Yeah that's you ask then. I would have said you were acting a bit antisocial. Oh My god Caribbean yeah. Cool Rubiun Queen. That's that's all. Yeah all right well I love you love you. Baby boy be birds..

twitter Amazon Netflix Anthony Show Opie Barton Bart US Spartan Andrew Andrew Marantz John Oliver Rubiun Queen Hewitt SEC Bethlehem New York America Howard Adam
"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

12:39 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

"For coming in and talking to you and now my favorite part of the show the fact check with my Soul Mate Monica Pad man. Go AHEAD BABY. Boy Be Able. Did you like that part when she sings baby boy. B B I did like it. It's one very very very tiny part of that song. The whole song about I even thought the name of the song was baby boy. Yeah we're speaking about leash keys still. We'll probably still be talking about her in a months ahead trying to look for her song baby boy did. A bunch of googling. Couldn't find anything but turns out. It is as small lyric in diary. That's right that's right. That's exactly right and you love it. You just WANNA keep seeing it over and over. I was wondering why it wasn't having the same impact on us was me and I was thinking. Maybe maybe all of us guys desire to have a girl. Call them baby boy. I think maybe we really think that might be part of it. Especially the way she says it like like we wanted to be called that we were delving into sorry Andrew. Sorry Andrew. We'll get we'll come back to you but this is important because you want to be taken care of men mother's love maybe sounds like a mother's love be nurtured even though they also want to be away from US. We WanNA shoot guns and take over something that they're just baby boy's right at bugs they're like a pet name or something that you would like if you were watching a Matt Damon movie and he was being intimate with some co star and he called her like acute name. Could you imagine yourself going? Oh I want him to call me back. Yeah of course what would it be SNICKER DOODLE ACCESS? Chinchilla now law or done if he calls me a sexton down at US.

US Monica Pad Andrew Matt Damon
"marantz" Discussed on Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

12:23 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

"The guys are busy. Fucking acting the Macho Alpha and doing nothing yes exactly and ranting on their Nazi podcasts. Were actually one of the ways. She found me because I wrote a piece about the kind of main podcast of that movement which is called the daily show which is a very hilarious pun because showing means Holocaust. Oh Wow yeah. So what a joke. He hasn't that that so this is what I'm saying but the thing is and this is again. This is sort of dangerous territory but like sometimes these guys are witty. Some I mean the daily show. They had one show called Nationalist Public Radio. They had one called fascination like yeah. They're not idiots right right. They they had like one episode put out in September called white after Labor Day. I was like Oh it's funny but these are these are guys who this was the show. She was listening to as she was getting indoctrinated. And there and it's not yelling. It's not hate this person. Hate that person. It's being part of a group having in Jokes. Every having all these acronyms these memes and all these. It's the ship hosting what you do online on four Chan or on Reddit. Whatever you ship you. Whatever ship POPs into your head? It's like a group chat. That's what they would act out and they would be like you guys and as you know podcasting is a very intimate form. You feel like you're there you feel like you're in the room so she just started feel like these are my these are my dudes. I'm there I'm part of their joke. You know the first ten episodes I listened to. I didn't know what they were talking about half the time now. I'm part of their community. It's like Opie and Anthony for Nazis. Right that's what they patterned after. And so it's so it's designed to inculcate urine indoctrinate you. That guy who made that show. He's the guy with the black brother in the Jewish. What I found him because when Charlottesville happened he had been anonymous. He'd been podcasting under a pseudonym he grew up in the most idyllic liberal. His parents were professors. His Dad Taught Beowulf. They adopted this biracial kid. His sister was was Very accomplished in the sort of nor me world and he was addicted to this kind of the way. I can get a certain type of reinforcement or feedback. Even if it's negative is to be surgically able to demolish anyone's argument even if it's the right argument so he was the guy at Thanksgiving who'd be like. Oh well you know you think you're so cool for being Vegan but let me actually there's more soya's Moore's for the environment that like he was not sure about everything And that led him to be a communist for awhile. Okay 'cause like you guys think you're so cool being bourgeois liberals. But you actually don't stand up for your principles and you actually aren't redistributing wealth in the way that you claim to be. He was really into antiwar Afghanistan. Stuff you really care about the Afghan people. Why are you supporting this Democratic Party? That's right so he's not wrong about that right right. He just is too addicted to the thrill of demolishing people with those arguments then the internet comes into his life. He's married to this Jewish woman but they're kind of like recluses. They don't really go out that much. He spends all his time on the Internet on these message. Boards demolishing destroying people going into these message boards. And going here's why you're if you believe in God. Here's why you're dumb if you whatever it doesn't even matter it's like a video game. Yeah he gets so good at this that he builds his identity around what can get the most traction of people they call them rage quits. How can I collect the most rage quits where I piss people off so much that they have to leave the Internet And he gets addicted to that kind of like collecting trophies or getting blocked probably getting blocked coming back with a new name. He and his buddies would all brigade into these rooms together and go. We're going to. It's like liberal tears. We're GONNA create all these liberal tears by so at that point he's a trotskyist but then because he has been accepted by the Trotskyists has to find a way to piss them off shore so then he says. What's the books that you guys are? The most afraid of in those are like these libertarian. Tomes about how government shouldn't exist and he goes and read those and then he becomes converted to libertarianism. And then you have to go piss off the libertarian. So then he goes so exhausting so then you get to a point where you go. The problem with Libertarianism. Is that you pretend that all people are equal. But they're not so. If I really have freedom I should be able to create a covenant of other people. We're all white and we don't let anyone else in. That's the short version of how you get from. Libertarian to white nationalist right and it's not a random again. I don't pick donkeys who are random examples. This happened to a lot of The Libertarian to outright pipeline is what they call it so he goes to this place where he goes. I have taken the ultimate red pill. The one thing in our society that you're not allowed to say is white man or the real oppressed group Jews are not actually white. They're the ones who secretly controlling us. Why do you think we're always going into these costly foreign wars? Because the Jews as they call it talk about Zionist occupied government. The Jews have decided that in Israel's interest we're going to destabilize the Middle East so that Israel is the only democracy left standing. There's like many many layers of this and it's all a conspiracy theory so I don't want to give it too much but it's all mapped out is the point. It's not blind hatred He's very very over. Thought Hatred rat and it's systematic. It's like we have to spend hours and hours and hours explaining it to you because it's so deep and when you are the kind of all the conditions are in the right place for you to get led down have half. I can tell from talking to these people. It is genuinely thrilling. It is a genuine process of intellectual discovery. That is wrong but that by their lights is exciting. There's this moment in Huck Finn where Huck Finn Realizes. Jim is actually a person this slave that he's on a raft with He. Has this epiphany that like I no matter what my society has told me. I have this moral intuition that this guy is a person and I'm going to build my life around defending that they have the opposite experience. And either way you go. It's like a conversion moment. So but this woman she is now piecing her life back together and going. I've essentially made the worst mistake. I can make And in a weird way. It's like Ken she ever work her way out of that because remember. She wasn't at Charlottesville where somebody got hurt. She was at the other one. She never physically hurt anyone. I have people. My wife was a public defender for a long time. She defended people who really did hurt people. Oh sure and every time we would talk about them or bring them up with friends or clients. Everyone would go well. I hope I hope he's okay. I hope he works his way to rehabilitation I hope he they would have nothing but kind things to say about someone who was trying to do their debt to society. And then I would bring up one of these people who had these bad ideas and felt bad about it and they'd be like that person is just fucking forever there. Yeah Yeah Yeah well. The problem is like yeah. I'm not disputing the anger towards those people. I'm not disputing the disgust. I have it. It's all about what's the solution and I don't think further alienating further demonizing for all those I just I don't think that unfortunately is the solution Like compassion solution preventative stuff solution with the understanding that you don't have to ever soften no by the way justice with compassion is what. I believe in people who do shit need to pay the price for that. But it doesn't mean you can't make an effort to understand how it's started or what went out of hand or you know and in a way the fact that I I wasn't intending to go to the actual out now white nationalist antisemites but when I did in a way I found it easier because I'm Jewish to go okay. There is no part of me. That is worried about getting sucked into their world view. So I can actually look at it with more clarity when I was talking to the pickup artist misogynist or whatever I was like ninety nine percent sure that I wasn't GonNa be persuaded by any of it but there's always a chance like sure maybe there might be some but once you're talking to a guy who wants to be incinerated like I don't think this is going to be persuasive to me like so and there were these moments they would be talking to me that that guy the daily show a guy we talk for hours and he was crying and we were getting into some really deep stuff and then he was telling me about the book that changed his life. The book that told him about the jae-kyu which is what they call it. The Jewish question. This is the book that red billed him on the J. Q. And he told me. Really gotta get it. You'RE GONNA it's GONNA blow your mind. And then he goes wait. You're not like you're not a Jew are you buddy. Yeah you bet Maybe should've done your homework researcher. I'm not hiding it. I'm not you know. Yeah he's like well I don't I mean you had red hair and like that Kinda that threw me off. Yeah I don't know what to tell you like when I hear people using these terms I literally think oh they must have honestly never met someone Jewish they must not even know what. They're you know what I'm saying. It must be such a foreign thing to them that they could think this. This is one this guy. He grew up in Jersey totally. Oh Jews everywhere. He went high school. Zach Braff oh onto weird later. Meinhof did he. In that moment when he's in front of you and you're saying yeah. Is he visibly over the phone? He was audibly embarrassed. He's definitely embarrassment Barris. I had actually. We were supposed to go to Shebab dinner that I'd canceled to spend my Friday night talking to an and we. We did end up meeting up and he wanted to meet a German beer hall which we did and I went to meet him at a German beer hall which was his way of trying to troll me and throw me off my game and I was like a German beer hall. That's fine and it's by the way he lived in the upper east side of Manhattan at the time really fight is never what you think. Yeah it is very shocking. You have a cartoon character. I do of those people. And that's not the case. It's almost never I mean Stephen Miller from Santa Monica people are never you know a lot of these guys that people have mentioned so far went to Bard Pepperdine. It's just never. Yeah it's never what you think and part of it is. I mean some of them. They're not all whatever the identical kind of intellectual profile but the people who become leaders in this movement to be the people who are good at picking apart news narratives inserting themselves in hijacking it. It's a skill that they have to acquire that they have to deduce. How do so I do think all this stuff is an argument for actually immersing yourself narrative LII in people's lives? I think the only way you can actually walk that fine line between excusing an engaging is to actually like go through the process of immersing yourself in that world and not try to get to the bottom line because the bottom line is these people are bad. The Internet should probably be reorganized. So it's not playing to our worst instincts. We should try to build more complex robust system so that we don't drive ourselves off a cliff like those are the answers that everybody I think would agree. Are The answers the challenge? How do you get there? Yeah and I just don't think you can get there unless you delve into the complexity of it a little bit because again. This'll be unpopular to but I am kind of a a hardcore liberty person in that. This place has got to be open for the very best ideas in the very worst ideas. And you can't just lop off the part. You don't why I like. You gotta take. It's a whole recipe that I want those good idea so unfortunately I have to. You know protect people's rights to have these terrible ideas. Yes and I think the thing. I where I often like go to push that a little bit is to say. Nobody reasonable wants to diminish free speech. The thing that I don't like is when we seem to suggest that what follows from that is because free speech is a value Therefore it can't be intention with other values so I can hold the value free speech to be absolutely sacrosanct but I also have to be realistic about the fact that it has extra analogy is it has other things that are concurrent with it. That can be problems so in the same way that I wanna be able to have. People have businesses and you know have an economy that's not centrally planned That doesn't mean that I don't look at that and go. Oh if you're polluting a river you can't do that or if carbon emissions that that's not a problem so sometimes we blind ourselves because we go. No no no free speech. That's the end of the conversation. Free speech is the most and the least and the end. That's all we can say. Yeah and like what I have started. Sort of pushing toward is like okay.

Charlottesville Israel Huck Finn Afghanistan Democratic Party Zach Braff Chan Middle East Moore Manhattan Stephen Miller Opie researcher Jim Ken Santa Monica Barris Meinhof
"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

12:05 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

"The other thing is the trolling scenario. It's people who have the power to enact massive cultural or political harm part of it depends on what kind of microphone you have to begin with. So there's a difference between some random anonymous guy on twitter saying I think is flatter I think whatever versus someone who is already a massive celebrity. Who is maybe actually having some like if someone goes on. Tv TOO IF ELIN GOES ON TV tomorrow and says hey nobody wash your hands in this corona virus thing. Just do a silly dance. And it'll all work itself out then there's like material harm. That might happen. Yeah Yeah and so part of it depends on like what are you preventing again the player like when he says that no one responds to media files him into the. Oh He's not in front of seven eleven now if Alec Baldwin engages with that guy now he's not a nut in front of seven eleven and he's like L. Bolton's taking them serious cut in front of seven eleven. Anyone who says the earth is flat is a fucking nut in your perspective. But he has a lot of fans and people who believe what he says whether they should or shouldn't they do. I don't know if I buy. I think they stand with him. But I don't know it convert your opinion. I don't know if we can. In the current year. Make the argument that people with insane just objectively wrong opinions can't hold real power. Yeah we can't run that well. It's not even a risk. The president doesn't think climate change is happening. It's like that that's the most dangerous fact about the world. We live right now so it can't be like well. Everybody knows. Climate change is real because of the very identity formation tangle were in Because people go. I don't want the egg heads telling me what to do with my car and my air conditioner whatever. We're in the tangle right now I agree with you that the steps we took to get into it were part of this vast complex finger traps scenario that we all lead into in our own ways. And we're blinded to partly because of the technology stuff we were talking about we blundered into this collectively. Yeah Le- let me ask you do. Do you believe that they should say the names of the mass shooters well? This is something I think about all the time with. I don't even know whether to name the people in your store in my story. Name them in the book because of you know journalistic All kinds of reasons. There are some people don't because they were sources who are trusting me with their anonymity but I do think that naming them on. Tv show is different. I think what kind of picture you choose to show of them and does glorify them. I think these are all difficult. We kept them entirely anonymous and there was no glory and was no sense that they would finally have gotten their comeuppance. But you'd have to. You'd have to learn their name. You'd have to know about them. These are people who feel like they didn't exist and they want to hurt as many people as possible to be seen. I think seen them proves that the the calculus works. Well I'll tell you there's one woman who I did a lot of section of the book about who I've probably spent more time talking to than any of them and actually. She never wanted anyone to know her name. She did was not in it for the fame. She wanted to be part of something. You wanted to have an identity. She wanted to feel like she was someone and not even in a famer power since just like wanted to be part of a community and I think we all know people who don't the way they see themselves by seeing themselves reflected back from other people use. Just one of those people like who am I. I'm the way people respond to me. And she was really good at service. She was a bartender for this reason because she was very good at creating an intimate intimacy with someone like an immediate intimacy with a stranger and she she grew up in New Jersey a lot of friends of different races and whatever she also knew that her grandmother grew up in the thirties in Germany. But they didn't really talk about very march and then she moved to a new place. Didn't really know a lot of people started dating a guy who spent a Lotta time on the Internet and would of make these jokes that she didn't really understand he would make a distinction between Jews and white people And she'd be like what Jews seem like. They're white to me and he'd be like all right. We'll talk later. This is over like months and months and months and she just kept getting more and more of these clues and then one day. He said something about the day of the rope and she was like. I don't know what that is a joke. Like ha ha day. The Rope and she googled it on her phone and a red at thing came up explaining what it was and today. The Rope is from the book that was found Timothy McVeigh's car and it's the fantasy of what's going to happen when the white nationalist rise up so then she drives his house and says what the Fuck Dude and he says. Okay so I am a. I'M A FASCIST. And if we wipe people don't stick up for ourselves we're going to get wiped out and they're gonNA come for us and they're gonNA genocide us and I don't believe I'm not actually proposing that we do these violent things. I'm just joking about that but I do think that. And what he actually said to her was. When I first heard these concepts they were so shocking to me and viscerally almost off putting to me. I almost turned away but I but I then I look more deeply and I realized that they're actually getting deeper truth. Which is that we white people are endangered and the Jews are the ones engineering the whole thing. And because they have this superior intelligence they are kind of the puppet masters of this entire you know and then and then he basically started showing her all these little sort of clues like do you notice how this is something. They never mentioned the media. They never talk about how the immigration laws were changed in. Nineteen sixty five. Why did they do that? Why don't they want you to see that? Well look who owns all these media companies and Blah Blah Blah and. He started taking her down these paths and she had the visceral reaction that you would have or she was like no way. I'm out never seen this guy again. Yeah left the house crying all the way home got back to her place and just said I just WanNa see one website that he was looking at just to see what it is. 'cause I don't WANNA BE CLOSE MINDED. I WanNa just know what it is sure. Open the website I've never read this fact about this thing. I've never seen this perspective on. This thing goes from that to that to that to that to that five days later. She calls him back and says Oh. Come on your team. Oh wow eventually. They called the first lady of the alright and she actually like will be mad at me when she hears this because she's a big fan of this show. Jesus don't say that but I'll tell you I didn't tell you the story. Because she worked her way out. Oh Okay we're back we're Shimano. You almost caused a huge by between us. No no no not. She started from the she started from the normal world of listening to this show. She's a big fan of Dan. Savage used to drive to work listening to Dan Savage and then she actually because this is. I mean the way that I got to tell. Her story was by just spending hundreds of hours. Just being like were you thinking. Then what were you feeling then and one of the things? These are just ran. These are things that you would get to unless you got really deep. But she was like you know at one point. I started going. Why am I allowed to listen to like people talking about fisting? Or whatever just crazy. Dan Savage sex stuff. But I'm not allowed to listen to To a show about how people are okay Now again this is one of these things that is deeply deeply wrong. Yeah but from her specific perspective where she had never been inoculated against certain ideas in the proper way and she'd never read the kind of books that whatever like whatever she was coming whatever she needed emotionally or personally it hit her because she was so in love with this guy and all this stuff it hit her in a way that it made sense to the point where they got her to be like. You know what we're GONNA do. We'RE GONNA go down to Charlottesville Virginia with some torches but we're just there to just show that we don't hate anyone we just want to stick ourselves because we have a right to exist and and she just was like yeah. I guess that might be a good idea She actually went to one Demonstration in Charlottesville before there was one before the big one the second one. She was at work so she didn't go. She saw the woman getting killed on TV. And then and then she was just like okay something. My life has gone horribly wrong. It shattered her. It shattered her. I need to get out. She called me a while. Because through a series of connections I was kind of known in that world. They didn't want to talk to me but they knew who I was right and she said okay. I'm GonNa talk to someone who understands this world but is not in it She was so confused and turned around that she would go. I know the Holocaust happened But did it really happen though? Like was it really six million. What if it was just like a thousand or ten thousand or and I was like no no no it happened? And she's like I know. I know I know really quick. What if it was ten thousand right? What if a leader decided that people should be killed further religious beliefs? Well that too may only kill ten thousand two. I guess I don't see. The number is being as material. They they think it matters because the Jews have been using this. You'll notice that I am comfortable because I'm Jewish. I can ventriloquist that voice and neely. I okay but like their theory is that Jews have used this victim narrative to get whatever they want Right so it has to be that big inflated number for them to get right you know all this Blah Blah Blah sympathies. If you talked to this woman she is funny. She's charming. You talk about bands with her all day long. They're just was just a big enough hole inside of her but this one is actually she got out so this is a useful one. Not Everybody in my book got out and I still talk to her all the time. She's the only one of all the people that I spent all the time with in my book. Fank acknowledgments is the only one who I feel like. I can have a relationship with right because she got out the other people that I talked to. They are trying to give me a propaganda line and I have to stick through it and her. It was a process. Just like there's all these couple of things that need to be present for her to sink in there. Were all these other factors that needed for her to come out. There was Charlottesville. Her grandma died and she had this complicated set of feelings about that. She actually rose up in the movement more quickly than he did all recite resented her. Yeah you might not be surprised to learn that a lot of the people who build their identities around racism antisemitism and Misogyny Rely on women to do a lot of the work in the moment for them. Women have done all the work and all the things always. There were a lot of times when literally they were organizing their next Tiki torch rally. And she was like I'm GonNa make the spreadsheet because no one else is doing it. The guys are busy. Fucking acting the Macho Alpha and doing nothing yes exactly and ranting on their Nazi podcasts. Were actually one of the ways. She found me because I wrote a piece about the kind of main podcast of that movement which is called the daily show which is a very hilarious pun because showing means Holocaust. Oh Wow yeah. So what a joke. He hasn't that that so this is what I'm saying but the thing is and this is again. This is sort of dangerous territory but like sometimes these guys are witty. Some I mean the daily show. They had one show called Nationalist Public Radio. They had one called fascination like yeah. They're not idiots right right. They they had like one episode put out in September called white after Labor Day. I was like Oh it's funny but these are these are guys who this was the show. She was listening to as she was getting indoctrinated. And there and it's not yelling. It's not hate this person. Hate that person. It's being part of a group having in Jokes. Every having all these acronyms these memes and all these. It's the ship hosting what you do online on four Chan or on Reddit. Whatever you ship you. Whatever ship POPs into your head? It's like a group chat. That's what they would act out and they would be like you guys and as you know podcasting is a very intimate form. You feel like you're there you feel like you're in the room so she just started feel like these are my these are my dudes. I'm there I'm part of their joke. You know the first ten episodes I listened to. I didn't know what they were talking about half the time now. I'm part of their community. It's like Opie and Anthony for Nazis. Right that's what they patterned after. And so it's so it's designed to inculcate UN indoctrinate you. That guy who made that show. He's the guy with the black brother in the Jewish life..

Dan Savage Charlottesville Alec Baldwin Shimano Timothy McVeigh L. Bolton New Jersey Germany president Le Chan Virginia neely Opie Anthony
"marantz" Discussed on Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

02:27 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

"Currently that seems to be the case we could all use help but may not know how or where to ask for. If you're feeling stressed or depressed or want professional help with anxiety insomnia or any issue affecting your wellbeing. Better help is available. Online counseling offers licensed professional therapists who specialize in many different areas including anxiety and depression as well as stress complicated relationships family conflicts difficulty sleeping grief stress trauma anger. What I love about this. Monica is particularly now. When you can't really go out and see anyone. This is a great way to check in with somebody can be objective about what's going on. Yeah now's the time to get ahead of it because it's all feeling a little stressful right now. Plus BETTER HELP. Could not be more convenient simply. Fill out a questionnaire to help. Assess your needs and get matched with a counselor. You'll love less than twenty four hours easily scheduled secure videophone sessions with your therapist plus securely exchange unlimited messages to for any reason. You're unhappy with your counselor. You can request a new one at any time for no additional charge. Get professional help when you want it or ever. You are better. Help is a truly affordable option and armchairs. Get ten percent off their first month with the Discount Code Deck. So why not get started today? Go to better help dot com slash. Stacks that's better help dot com slash. Dax We are supported by CBD MD with everything shutting down around the nation. It's starting to feel like we're living in the second act of a sea level SCIFI movie so instead of being one of those expendable characters that goes against the group and puts everyone endanger stay inside and stock up on plenty of CBD to keep you calm through it all the way. I need some more see BDP PM okay. Okay because I'm running out and it's making me nervous now whether you're planning to take a bath and catch up on all those episodes of armchair expert that.

"marantz" Discussed on Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

06:45 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

"Q. I saw this with One of the sections of my book is actually I embedded at the White House briefing room because some of these just absolute troll performance artists type. People were in this new timeline. Were IN GETTING WHITE. House press credential. Oh it's so. Spectacular was I was sitting at the deploraball. And I need this sort of like you. Guys Know Milo. Yeah Yeah. Milos the fabulous British. I think Bill Maher head Amman. Yes yes yeah. I've spent a lot of time with Milo to Milo used to make fun of me Komiya soy forgetting soy milk. My coffee okay. And then he would drink hot coffee through a straw so we didn't stain his shirt making fun of me in the scenario but Milo is kind of species. There's other people who do that thing. I'm fabulous. I'm unconcerned like the trolling that they do is to just be so fabulous that no one can say anything to them. All press is good. It's all attention you're talking about me. I'm not talking about you. I exactly all the haters. Love me I love my haters. Ugly people hate me. That's one of the shirts that Milo I know where it's just like it's really dumb despicable. Whatever there's there's a million things to say but by the way if he doesn't outweigh just he doesn't have a exertion so you also have to recognize everyone's own role in it but that is what they're trading on the same way that it's frustrating that people don't understand the actual mission of terrorism Which is a low barrier of entry? Act that will warrants an outsize reaction that will cripple state's economy that we would probably not respond then in the way that we do because we would know. Oh we're doing exactly as they would want us. Which is very much exactly that the intention of trolling the intention of drilling is to say one. Little thing I'm just like I'm not mad. You're mad and then suddenly you're the center of attention and you just get to back off. I mean imagine if you had no experience in leadership or politics or anything except corruption and you could just say. I think this this black. I wasn't born in America and he shouldn't be president and you got to control mainstream media for as long as you want just by saying that and not having the basic human decency to not say that. Yeah Yeah Yeah and then maybe imagine if you could do that enough that you could literally become president because of it. That'd be a great trick. You could play Shar Shar and IT TURNS OUT. We live in that timeline. And there's this concept of fitness that You know Darwinian fitness means just the fittest will survive. There's also kind of fitness that means like it's like ethically or morally fit like the news that's fit to print and one of the things that I sort of started playing with is a mean like birtherism or meam like you know. Feminists are worse than cancer. Or whatever. The worst thing you can think of is maximally fit in the Darwinian world of social media it is maximally engineered to be a viral meme and it is zero percent fit in the old gatekeeper media since. There's no good gatekeeper. Media paper of record. That would print an article saying gee. I wonder if this president was born in America. Because it's not true right but it is perfect catnip for people to go. How dare you? How dare you sir? And you can't not do that. There can't be no one in the world who tells Donald Trump is wrong for saying that because then you yeah exactly. That's how well no disagree. I mean I really think Look at again. We're getting dangerously political for the show but I will say you're were in a bed we made. Gee there's no getting around that there is if no one ever would have responded to any of the outrageous shit. He said there wouldn't be one like we are as responsible as anyone. That voted for him. If you are perpetuating an endlessly talking about and giving attention to and getting in the new cycle we're we're we're playing along what I what I say. I'm glad there are two of you here because you're acting out to. I literally think you're both right because what I say in. The book is trolls. Set such an ingenious trap because to respond to them is to give them fuel To not respond to them is to create the perception that you are okay. Hey push back on. Why explain why I don't engage with someone saying something absolutely ridiculous? I wouldn't engage with a flat author. I'M NOT GONNA waste my time if you think. The Earth is flat. Good good on. You would never waste one second of my time. But what if you're already influential person like irving who's in front of TV cameras and then you're saying earth is flat. What if you're being interviewed on TV? You say yeah. I was really glad that we won this game. I really played good defense. Also the earth is flat and Blah Blah Blah. Some point. Somebody's gotTa go away. Don't tell people that that's wrong. Well I kind of disagree because on its surface ninety nine percent of people are GonNa hear that and go. Oh my God thinks this now I come out and I attack him Okay now I've amplified that message hugely and now something emotional starts happen so someone else who feels like an underdog because they didn't go to an Ivy League school or they weren't educated now there's an emotional bond. They have with that person that someone with power status and stature is calling that personnel in belittling them. Now the I've created an ally for somebody who might not even be a flat earth but the emotional component is so compelling so relatable that now they're defending some guy and then by virtue of that defending his position on flat earth. That's the risk it Rhonda percent hundred percent. There is no way out. I will take that one step further when I go into the world of one of these people who I think is bad or wrong and I write an article in the New Yorker pointing out. How they're bad or wrong. I run the risk of gaining them more exposure and more fans. Who were going this? Egghead elitist whatever just went to go. Prove that you're wrong but like fuck that guy. Yeah and also can let me. Just add something critical. I cherish her role in our society in the fourth estate. And all that. But you put your article in the New Yorker. Guess what. It's only reaching people who already thought that. I'm GonNa read Amelia. I totally agree with that. Because I I already fucking subscribe at the New Yorker. So of course I do. Thank you one of the one of the moments that this really hit me. I mean I'm constantly thinking about this and constantly thinking about the trade offs. It's very very complicated. There were a few moments where you know somebody would tell me. My whole world view is based on fuck. You you smug elite motherfucker. You don't get to tell me what to think. And then I would go right that quote in the New Yorker and they would have.

Milo president White House America Bill Maher Shar Shar Milos Donald Trump Ivy League school irving
"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

06:45 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

"Q. I saw this with One of the sections of my book is actually I embedded at the White House briefing room because some of these just absolute troll performance artists type. People were in this new timeline. Were IN GETTING WHITE. House press credential. Oh it's so. Spectacular was horrible. I was sitting at the deploraball and I need this sort of like you. Guys Know Milo. Yeah Yeah Milos the fabulous British. I think Bill Maher head Amman. Yes yes yeah. I've spent a lot of time with Milo to Milo used to make fun of me Komiya soy forgetting soy milk. My coffee okay. And then he would drink hot coffee through a straw so we didn't stain his shirt making fun of me in the scenario but Milo is kind of species. There's other people who do that thing. I'm fabulous. I'm unconcerned like the trolling that they do is to just be so fabulous that no one can say anything to them. All press is good. It's all attention you're talking about me. I'm not talking about you. I exactly all the haters. Love me I love my haters. Ugly people hate me. That's one of the shirts that Milo I know where it's just like it's really dumb despicable. Whatever there's there's a million things to say but by the way if he doesn't outweigh just he doesn't have a exertion so you also have to recognize everyone's own role in it but that is what they're trading on the same way that it's frustrating that people don't understand the actual mission of terrorism Which is a low barrier of entry? Act that will warrants an outsize reaction that will cripple state's economy that we would probably not respond then in the way that we do because we would know. Oh we're doing exactly as they would want us. Which is very much exactly that the intention of trolling the intention of drilling is to say one. Little thing I'm just like I'm not mad. You're mad and then suddenly you're the center of attention and you just get to back off. I mean imagine if you had no experience in leadership or politics or anything except corruption and you could just say. I think this this black. I wasn't born in America and he shouldn't be president and you got to control mainstream media for as long as you want just by saying that and not having the basic human decency to not say that. Yeah Yeah Yeah and then maybe imagine if you could do that enough that you could literally become president because of it. That'd be a great trick. You could play Shar Shar and IT TURNS OUT. We live in that timeline. And there's this concept of fitness that Darwinian fitness means just the fittest will survive. There's also kind of fitness that means like it's like ethically or morally fit like the news that's fit to print and one of the things that I sort of started playing with is a mean like birtherism or meam like you know. Feminists are worse than cancer. Or whatever. The worst thing you can think of is maximally fit in the Darwinian world of social media it is maximally engineered to be a viral meme and it is zero percent fit in the old gatekeeper media since. There's no good gatekeeper. Media paper of record. That would print an article saying gee. I wonder if this president was born in America. Because it's not true right but it is perfect catnip for people to go. How dare you? How dare you sir? And you can't not do that. There can't be no one in the world who tells Donald Trump is wrong for saying that because then you yeah exactly. That's how well no disagree. I mean I really think Look at again. We're getting dangerously political for the show but I will say you're were in a bed we made. Gee there's no getting around that there is if no one ever would have responded to any of the outrageous shit. He said there wouldn't be one like we are as responsible as anyone. That voted for him. If you are perpetuating an endlessly talking about and giving attention to and getting in the new cycle we're we're we're playing along what I what I say. I'm glad there are two of you here because you're acting out to. I literally think you're both right because what I say in. The book is trolls. Set such an ingenious trap because to respond to them is to give them fuel To not respond to them is to create the perception that you are okay. Hey push back on. Why explain why I don't engage with someone saying something absolutely ridiculous? I wouldn't engage with a flat author. I'M NOT GONNA waste my time if you think. The Earth is flat. Good good on. You would never waste one second of my time. But what if you're already influential person like irving who's in front of TV cameras and then you're saying earth is flat. What if you're being interviewed on TV? You say yeah. I was really glad that we won this game. I really played good defense. Also the earth is flat and Blah Blah Blah. Some point. Somebody's gotTa go away. Don't tell people that that's wrong. Well I kind of disagree because on its surface ninety nine percent of people are GonNa hear that and go. Oh my God thinks this now I come out and I attack him Okay now I've amplified that message hugely and now something emotional starts happen so someone else who feels like an underdog because they didn't go to an Ivy League school or they weren't educated now there's an emotional bond. They have with that person that someone with power status and stature is calling that personnel in belittling them. Now the I've created an ally for somebody who might not even be a flat earth Er but the emotional component is so compelling so relatable that now they're defending some guy and then by virtue of that defending his position on flat earth. That's the risk it Rhonda percent hundred percent. There is no way out. I will take that one step further when I go into the world of one of these people who I think is bad or wrong and I write an article in the New Yorker pointing out. How they're bad or wrong. I run the risk of gaining them more exposure and more fans. Who were going this? Egghead elitist whatever just went to go. Prove that you're wrong but like fuck that guy. Yeah and also can let me just add something and I'm not being critical. I cherish her role in our society in the fourth estate. And all that. But you put your article in the New Yorker. Guess what. It's only reaching people who already thought that. I'm GonNa read Amelia. I totally agree with that. Because I I already fucking subscribe at the New Yorker. So of course I do. Thank you one of the one of the moments that this really hit me. I mean I'm constantly thinking about this and constantly thinking about the trade offs. It's very very complicated. There were a few moments where you know somebody would tell me. My whole world view is based on fuck. You you smug elite motherfucker. You don't get to tell me what to think. And then I would go right that quote in the New Yorker and they would have.

Milo president White House America Bill Maher Shar Shar Donald Trump Ivy League school irving
"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

11:51 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

"Isn't that right Monica deploraball? This I spent about three and a half years going in my head but I of I. There were times where I just had to go because I wasn't GonNa lie and because I wasn't GonNa say the full truth. I just went. You know what man. Just take a look at me like look at my glasses. Look at my beard. Just make assumptions in there. Probably Close Enough. Shosha thin slice me. Yeah like it's not that far off now. Can you just tell me what you want to tell me Arkansas? Or sometimes they'd be like take my notebook and tear it up and be like fuck. It was like fifty fifty. Yeah so when I get to this guy's house in California. He's like okay. I have a laptop I have an IPAD and I I live stream on my ipad. And like that's it. I have a phone because people text me stuff. And that's how I'm going to reverse engineer the news cycle and like Damage Hillary's brandon that she's going to lose. I mean obviously in concert with other people but like I'm GONNA do my part to hijack the narrative and I was like come on Man. Like how are you gonNA is? Okay Watch so I mean I was with him for days and days and he does it multiple times a day. He was like one of the things that people really respond to viscerally and emotionally. Is someone being sick or disgusting or like especially a woman if I can make people think that she's just diseased and like rotting from the inside. They won't want to vote for her. Never mind that he was like. I have all these things about her foundation in the stuff they're doing in Saudi Arabia and cutter and I have like. He had all those things on his mind but he was like. That's not GonNa go viral. That's not GonNa hit people at these emotional flashpoints that are going to make them. Click and comment. And what's GonNa make them? Click in freak out is. She's diseased. Yeah so he goes okay. There's these there's these little video clips of her where she's blinking in a weird way and I'm GonNa say that's her having a mini seizure or she Did an interview sitting down. So I'm going to say she can't stand up or there's a little bulge in her pocket. I'm GonNa say that's her catheter. And so part of it is just throwing shit out there but part of it is also condensing it so that it becomes It's spikes into the national discourse because to your point. You don't just want it to stay in your silo. You WanNA pollute the entire national discourse with it. So he'll go okay. I'm GonNa do a live stream on periscope and I'm GonNa get doesn't have to be a million people. It could be a thousand people or five hundred people if they're passionate enough and hardcore enough and we all pick the same. Hashtag at the same time and we get enough of the right kind of images and words all in the right combination in in. Its spikes quickly enough. That will become a trending hash tag on twitter so he would sit in this video conferencing. Okay today it's going to be Hillary's bags because Hillary's bag. She's got bags under her eyes. She's got bags. Catheter bags she's got back. So it's like let's all go hillary's bags right now. Go to twitter. They all do it. None of this is against the rules by the way right. Twitter doesn't have a rule that maybe they should but they don't have a rule against you and your buddies hijacking the news right. They'll go to twitter. They do the Hashtag if they do it. Right IT trends. Then once something trending on twitter that as a signal to every journalist in the world which is the core audience of twitter to go so as to go. This is now a thing you have now been objectively given permission to after this as a thing. Yeah which will now. It's in the public. Consciousness deserves reporting on exactly which is misleading in a Lotta ways right because you know most Americans are not on twitter. Most people on twitter are not talking about Hillary's catheter bags. Whatever it's just an engineered outrage Because you've now seen it in the little box and by the way there's no twitter never said that the little box of training hashtags are the things that objectively the most people are talking about. It is a proprietary algorithm that they've never shared how they come up with it so it's not just a value. It's not a volume thing. It's it's it's a bunch of factors speed it's concentration to supposed to measure vitality well and so these are these are all proprietary companies. That don't share. How they do it but it just so happens that if you just do your homework learn how to reverse engineer it you can have this effect and then he would. Just sit me down and explain. Okay so watchman watch what's going to happen. It's going to trend. I bet you that if Chris Cillizza picks it up at CNN and then he you know re tweeted them. Brian Stelter is GonNa notice it and then he's GonNa be considered talking about it. I know it's going to end up on the drudge report and Russia's probably GonNa talk about it and then maybe Sean Hannity's GonNa talk about it not because this guy some kind of profit or genius just because he's just like this is what he does all day. He pays attention. It's like being like a stop. These are great admiral and then I would go back to my hotel and wake up the next day and scan the headlines and be like. There's some headline that's like some people are talking about. Maybe Hillary might be sick. And that's because of this guy right. That's impressive like All ethics aside that that is really impressive. Yes and there was a part of me that was like there's kind of like an Ocean's eleven element of of corner like you. Don't want them to rob the thing. But you're kind of like how are they gonNA pull it off? Well it's technology has increased. I have only felt increasingly less apart of everything or that. The system is so big and to think someone else went the other direction with this. I'm like oh no. I can have a huge impact so he had the clear objective of making sure. Hillary get elected right and also becoming a big player in some kind of game. It's an adrenaline rush active. You make money from it. Like he became a brand. He became a media brand. What all the people in my book have in common. It's like two dozen people who've make up this sort of ensemble cast from the guy in Chicago to the Nazis. What they're all actually good at is media creation Media Propaganda Messaging. They're not like great political thinkers. They're great messengers. Yeah well I got to tell you the time. I was impressed by fire. Fest do you watch any of those documentaries? I watch both of them. And the factor that company fucked Jerry or whatever it is they really had engineered this thing with the yellow screen and in Bhai got it fucking work. And when they were describing. I'm like why is this GonNa work? And they were just dead right at work like crazy. You know what Else Fuck Jerry engineered. What one of those documentaries? Oh right they produce the one which is even like I watched the one. I think it was the Netflix. Remember which one and I then looked at the credits and was like what is it. Just the point is there's no like floor where you go okay. This is where the human fingerprints aren't on it anymore It's all the way down. I don't have this but let me just be a contrary in for one second. I can imagine that ain't homeless Anderson going okay. Great so yeah. The individual has this power that in the past was really held just by the powerful who owned the monopoly of newspapers. I could see a lot of people would think. Well this is been democratizing. You're pissed that your average human being now has sway over what we're taking in. Why do you prefer B. One of these mega? That's setting the the story well and to take it one step further. I'm pissed because I'm losing the power that equation because I don't get to sit in the New Yorker and go. No no no you. Here's what you should think. Yeah and he's story. That's worth consuming. Should be fact check now? I am of that opinion but I can definitely see where people like the fuck that now. I trust this guy more than your fact checkers up totally and just numerically speaking. That is true. Right right right so I think you're totally right there and I go to some length in the book and maybe people will think I should have gone to more length to do this to be clear. The good old days of gatekeeper media. Were not good days. There were huge massive blind spots. That were. It's not possible to go back to that and it's not desirable to go back to that So it can't be. Let's just put this genie back in the box. So it's not an argument driven book in the sense that I'm not like every chapter ends with my checklist of things. We should do right. It's a story. Yeah and the way and I think the point of getting drawn into the deep complexity of these stories is to look at all the sides of it and go. This is really complicated. There's no clean solution. We have to work our way out. I'm of the opinion. Because I don't think you legislate your yourself out of this situation at all can help. But it's not going to. I don't yeah. And unless you're dismantling the first amendment I just don't see a legislative answer to this so I I guess what I would be hoping in the best side of myself would would want you to have figured out some underlying part of their human experience. That led to this to this sense. Maybe I'm wrong. But I once watched a sixty minutes segment on the the sovereign citizens and these people by definition are insane. You know they. They don't they won't carry license. They've killed all these law enforcement agents and they have this very interesting view of what it means to be a sovereign citizen but when sixty minutes looked at it almost without exception almost every member of that group within the last few years had had a good pain blue collar job and they lost that And so what was unavoidable was that that was a part of all of their stories In you can't really ignore that. So it's like when you're trying to talk about how to legislatively affect the sovereign citizens. I don't know that you're GONNA have a lot of success in that but if we can address the scenario by which these things are born out of I just feel like. That's a lot better approach for us. You know it's the ounce of prevention approach yes. There are a lot of commonalities in patterns that I encountered and I do try to be clear. That it's not a one-size-fits-all prescriptive thing you know. Twelve percent social isolation mixed with five percent president's own addiction equals eighty nine percent chance of Nazi like. Yeah there's definitely economic factors foreshore although a lot of people that I countered were very very bucolic. Middle-class had everything handed to them sometimes. There's just personal sometimes. There's such an addiction to hyper contrarian ISM yeah that it's like one of the ways I think I described it was like you guys know what the red pill is the sort of obsession with the Matrix. Yeah the the the Matrix. The the red pill analogy from the Matrix ends up being used all over the Internet to be like take the red pill and understand the true the truth that we're actually sovereign citizens that don't need to respond to law enforcement or that. We're you know that that climate change is a hoax or whatever. The these are all red pills. Yeah and I sort of said like there's a kind of personality where you're so addicted to red pills that you'll just swallow anything with a pinkish hue without being like is this full of arsenic or is this like what is this. The thrill of it is so addictive. Yes so there's that there's personal elements. There's I mean the guy who grew up. You know porno annoyed junkyard. Of course the system wasn't working for him and then you know he's told that that you know the problem is that you have to white privilege. And he's like I do not feel like I have too much white privilege and again this is where you get into these tricky. I'm not excusing or saying that. I think he's right about that. I I actually feel like it's part of my job to bring my brain to bear and go like I think you're wrong about that. Yeah but I think it's incumbent on us to understand the argument and go okay. Well this you know well again I just want to point out. There is him being right or wrong about that. And then there is a human being on planet earth. That has these feelings and these motivation and they are legally. They're able to act on now and so the question is. Do you want to have an impact on that and you know what is the approach for that right yes and some of it is broad and systemic and some of it is personal and sometimes there's a overreliance on everybody wanting to have a clean? Rosebud Moment Golic. Well that's just the moment if we could just make sure that nobody ever has their sled taken away from them. They won't grow up to be assholes but like so that's not scalable right as the tech guy say but it's also important to look at how all the factors play against each other so some of it is this feeling of. Don't tell me what to say I feel hemmed in. I can say whatever I want. Some of it is I often found. People would have a kind of combination of a very high Q. In a very low E..

twitter Hillary engineer Monica deploraball Arkansas California Brian Stelter Chris Cillizza brandon Netflix Saudi Arabia Jerry Sean Hannity CNN Chicago Russia Anderson social isolation
"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

09:44 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

"Know I gotta Say I'm D- I'm going to do this. A bunch during this interview and I'm GonNa get in trouble at times but I'm GonNa do it anyway. Which is what did your parents do for a living doctors there. You go so I will say I get a little frustrated people. That'll pat themselves on the back too much. Because if you're born into a household of doctors yeah you're starting at a pretty good spot where they've already dedicated their life to helping people. Money had sold cars and if he could sell one with a dent in it that no one saw. That was an extra two hundred dollars. A week could Ma- so my dad was fucking. Take what you can get and run like hell and so I can relate very often Monaco and we'll get in these conversations and I'm like I hate to say it but I had that obsession and the coveting of money in at all costs and what's fair oak because someone went to that school. That's fair. Fuck that the whole system is not fair. I'm going to get mine so I don't longer feel that way but I definitely understand how many people are given the world. View of this is a fucking video game and get some points totally. And so I'm I don't think you can blame people so much. If that's what they were born into. Well I agree in the sense that I don't think the most productive place to go with that is to go. This is a bad person. Right right right. I want to condemn this individual as a bad apple. Think the thing that's important is what are the systems that are driving people to behave the way they are. It's also just want to point out it's in it's something I find myself and it is a luxury to be finding purpose. I'm so grateful to have the luxury but for many years purpose wasn't on my agenda. It was like get some fucking money so I can stop sweating the price of gas. You know it all becomes like What's on fire? Yes yes the pyramid. Yeah and then the question is do you get addicted to that. I mean this kid. When I met him it was a twenty seven year old millionaire. At what point do you actually brise up to the level of Maslow's pyramid where you're actually trying to transcend that? Yes again. It's not about moral condemnation in the sense that I don't think this guy's a bad guy? I do think it's important though to to flesh out our actual profound disagreements of principle especially as we get more into the people who are actively tearing apart the fabric of our democracy which I ended up writing about more. Yeah and again. I'm probably going to point out some things that will sound like I'm a sympathizer but that's not the case. It's more just for like a sense of emotionally. Maybe what's going on with people which I'm sure you are equally interested in totally. This is part of when we were talking about the Angel Demon of cancellation on your shoulder. There were times when I was like. I'm so interested in what drives these people and explaining it that I am worried that I'm going to get mistaken for excusing it. Sure should I spent. I mean in the book I go deep into the life. History of people that are doing bad things in the world just objectively making this world a worse place and I really really want a tunnel into what was it with their relationship with their parents. It's also you have to understand it. If you want to be able to create systems that will correct so yeah. I started with this. Click Bait entrepreneur guy in Chicago. Then trump comes down the escalator and I immediately. I'm like okay. All the incentive structures all the business incentives the attentional incentives the psychological tricks. All the things that I saw this sort of innocent neutral kid doing. That's what this guy's GonNa do and he's GonNa win and I am sad to say. I've made a lot of bets that I won and I also was like okay. This my thing that I've been sort of trying to puzzle through and not knowing exactly what the story is. This just became the story of American politics. So then I was like okay. Now I need to broaden my scope. It's not just about how this kid is making money on facebook. It's about how the same things that allow him to be. A twenty seven year old millionaire on facebook are the things that are going to destroy everything we hold dear. I WANNA know how you go from observing them online to then meeting them also okay so it was summer of two thousand sixteen. I had been saying kind of internally like making bets with my editors and people like these forces are too strong like trump's GonNa win eventually it just got to the point. Where like okay tell that story in a way that is not just again not just putting out your opinion and sort of writing an op-ed about how but like show me show me who's doing yeah and we were already hearing rumors even back then pre-election that like maybe the Russians are doing and maybe the bats are doing it and I was like even if it's true that the Russians are doing it. There's no way that there's more of the Russians doing it. I'm doing air quotes though Russians. Like there's no way that these whatever two hundred people who are sitting in a building being paid to do this are having more of an effect on the election than Americans were doing this corddry. There's just like Yes bots are problem. And yes you know. Troll farms are a problem but most of this is real people like. I'm going to find the people who are doing this right and I was trying to stay within gray territory at first. I didn't go straight for just the outright Nazi stuff. I felt like that was a little too salacious. You Wanna be able to again not excuse but find some way into understanding. It's very very hard to find your way into understanding why just an outright antisemites just out and out cross burning person. I did end up getting there in the book because while I was reporting the book. Charlottesville happened and I went. Oh Shit I have to have to go there right but I started out with. I WanNa find someone who wants Hillary to lose for reasons that are not just pure blind hatred but like has reasons and is really effective at reverse engineering and hacking the attentional marketplace to make that a reality. I WanNa find someone who's just sitting at home in their living room doing it freelance and in a way that would not have been possible without these algorithms. Like you could do it. As a super billionaire Rupert Murdoch type person by just buying up the press apparatus. But the fact that you could just do it from your laptop is new in human history. Well let me ask you this though because we acknowledged the algorithms are virtually giving us exactly what we wanna read already. We're already silos. How would someone penetrate that Algorithm from a an opposing viewpoint? So here's how they do it well so there's a lot of wiggle room within. They're giving us what we want. Because there's different versions of us and what we bought for Twitchy Lizard Brain version. There's the deeper more considered version so you can. You know you can get people who don't want doritos to eat. Doritos by giving them to us. Yeah Yeah it's not. Actually that deepen complex you just have to. It's a it's a trick to get good at. Yeah you put lines out to twenty people and you end up finding the one perfect person because a lot of what a New Yorker style thing is finding the one perfect person who's GonNa encapsulate larger right set of concerns that's like a Frac Dole of exactly. Yeah they call it the donkey like the person who can carry the weight of the story you want tell okay like Lawrence right when he was writing about scientology his first piece about that article. I've ever in my life so I if you remember that article all these articles this is like Super Dumb magazine Nerd thing but they all have a little thing above the title. That's called a rubric and it's called either profiles or a reporter at large or whatever that one was technically a profile of Paul Haggis. Okay nobody read that and went. Wow I know know about Paul Haggen career the life and times of Paul Huggins was the quote unquote donkey. In that story. He was the one carrying the load of the right. Because you have to go in through someone so my Paul Haggis was this guy. I hesitate. Maybe we shouldn't even like give him more attention so the the guy I used I called him up and said I am interested in how people are using social media to do unprecedented things in politics. Really quick how do you even because everyone is operating under an alias or a foxcatcher? Twenty-nine how do you even find out who the Guy Really is? Some people are not other okay so he was living out loud. Yeah Okay people who've been at this for a long time. There is generally a time when they either been docks or they've outed themselves or something has happened where they go. This is going to be who I am now. This particular guy. He was a lawyer. He went to law school. He had a wife and kid and a dog and they like to go hiking and actually he was on the right path. Yeah well and this is no when I met him. Oh okay so every time you meet one of these people and I'm going to tell you about other people that it's going to be the same thing every time. It is not the person you expect. Oh Wow it is never the fifteen year old in a Hoodie in a basement. This guy was about forty. This was his second marriage. Both of his wives were non white. He was really into exercise and fitness. This was you know summer twenty sixteen and I just want to understand what the fuck was happening on the Internet so I was like. Okay show me how you do what you do in right away. I was like okay. This guy is not dumb. He's not living by himself. And you know like he's a Weirdo in many ways. But he's not the kind of isolated it's not is not Ted Kaczynski not Ted Kaczynski. He's obviously not white nationalist in good standing. Because he you get kicked out of being a white nationalist if your wife is of Iranian descent and I actually later found out that his first wife had worked at facebook and in the divorce he got half of her facebook stock which is funds all of his. Oh Wow some of this stuff is like if it was a novel they'd be like come on too on the nose. The I mean. Wait till we get to the guy who's a like the top Nazi propagandist in the country. Who was married to a Jewish woman and who had a black brother and We'll get there in love that complicated so messages so I get our love and again you asked me this before. Like didn't they look at you and go like aren't you going to be on the you're from New York all this stuff Sometimes I would literally meet someone at a party like the deploraball one of the big parties I went to. It's called. The deploraball was there. Big Inauguration Party execute acute plan..

facebook Paul Haggis Ted Kaczynski Ma Monaco Inauguration Party apple trump Chicago Rupert Murdoch Hillary Paul Haggen Charlottesville reporter New York Lawrence Paul Huggins Frac Dole
"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

02:09 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

"Like shopping for home. Insurance Policy Jeans comes in I head to policy genius Dot Com and answer a few questions about yourself and your property then policy genus will compare your policy against options from top insurers to make sure you're getting the right home insurance coverage at the best possible price. They've saved their customers and average of six hundred ninety dollars per year. Just doing that now policy genius. Find you a better rate than what you're currently paying..

"marantz" Discussed on Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

16:14 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

"It's for a project on your search history was probably a little little embarrassed search history and my algorithms and Youtube would be like. Do you want to buy a diamond mine? Do you WANNA buy a secret gun holster. I didn't have the foresight to do like a separate work and personal account. It would just be weird pickup artists stuff. And then like Lebron Highlights Stephen Colbert and so the algorithm was like who are you? Yes you're describing my netflix account. Because my kids sign in my name recommended all these Unicorn cartoons and while they are off base on me. I think it's kind of cool to just confused the algorithms as much as possible but so it started out as these kind of more abstract questions in less than a political context. It didn't seem like a politics story at the time. It seemed like maybe a text story a business story kind of culture story and so I was exploring like okay. It feels like everything is getting broken into these decontextualize chopped up. Bits where you never go to any homepage ever anymore. It's just your feed throwing things in your face. Yeah that and that goes for everything that goes for brands. Companies People. Whatever it's all sort of based on what the Algorithm wants to send you which as we just discussed is based on search history but it's also based on triggering. The most extreme immediate emotions mia as possible quickly and so. Those are good fuel for action. Yes yeah specifically the actions of Click. Scroll share comment. Those are literally the only things the can measure yes algorithm can't reach into your brain and Golic. Wow this thing really made you think really changed you. It really made you a better person that it is just blind to all of that all it knows is did you smash button right. Did we capture your attention? This amount of time totally and get you to do things on top of the time. Get you comment. I love this. Yeah those are the only things that can capture so in a way. That wasn't intentional. When these you know Silicon Valley disruptor people set out to do this. I think they really believed yes. They wanted to make money. And all this stuff and they want power but I think they really believed like we're going to give people what they want l. for sure and then they just didn't fully think through. It's like how when you are like building cities and you're like hey we've got this great thing called a car and it can get you places faster. Why would we not do that? And then fifty years later. You're like Oh that's going to literally baked the planet. It's kind of equivalent. They just didn't think it all through. Yeah well it's moving so fast and their defense pretend someone could be ahead of. It is is a little naive totally totally. I think we'll get into this but I think there are ways they could have and should have adjusted over the course of that time. Instead of they've kind of dug in their heels well we just interviewed the head of Instagram Adam. And he was I thought very transparent in their many failings he was in charge of the Facebook newsfeed before he went over to instagram and he was being vocal and sounding alarms. And all these different things and yeah. He's just like yet. We didn't think everything. Also we learn things like real time as as the media's learning pointed it out quite often we're learning it at the same time so I'm mildly sympathetic to what they're doing. It's not like the point of the work or the book is to be an expose of like these are the worst people in the world or just not like Harvey Weinstein type figures. They're more like I would say like the people who design cities and buildings and cars thought they were building. This beautiful You Know Bussiers or Robert Moses running these people where you have this beautiful thing being built that also has these massive consequences And then it's a question to me of. How much can you think? And self reflect and be kind of supple and flexible enough to go like the thing you built your entire life on not only your fortune and fame but also just your entire life if you think about. Marburg's life yeah. Yeah literally his entire life. Ninety percent built on this one thing Since he was nineteen years old is loan. I'm sure when he closes his eyes and thinks of himself. I think facebook is inter meshed into that. Oh it's like and I try to think of it from the perspective of like if you suddenly told me that trying your hardest to write beautiful sentences capture the perfect crystalline reality of the world. We live in is actually like killing babies in Myanmar. Sure sure I'd be like downstream. Doesn't make soured wrap your head around. It would take time. Yeah but there is this thing the philosopher Richard Bertie. Who's like a little bit of a sort of backdrop to the book? Sorority is like this massively important. American pragmatist philosopher who kind of hard to pin down simply but one of my favorite of his books. Contingency Irony and solidarity contingency is essentially. The end of the story isn't written yet. Everything is contingent. Everything could have happened one way or another way. Like essentially he's arguing against this idea of progress will sort of become this thing that works itself out right. Whether it's through Marxism there will be this natural class struggle or whether it's enlightenment you know the rationality of humans will naturally Lita. He's against all that stuff. It's not gonNA there's no natural course of history And it has to be decided. It had people have to do it. Yeah yeah so like it may be the case that human ingenuity and rationality brings to. It's not just going to be given. Yeah it's not this Galions or of course of history thing and the reason. I thought that was important to bring up for this stuff. Is that when you are someone who just at nineteen drops out of college and starts a thing that ends up being the biggest information tool ever known in human history? You're not a philosopher. You're not a historian. You're building something cool and you. I think you imbibe without really realizing just these cultural ideas of like free speech good History is a march of progress. We live in a time where you know the more globally. We get knitted together. The fewer wars will have the more prosperity will have all these things. You don't articulate them but they're just like the the water you're swimming in. Yeah so that when you build a thing where you're like we're gonNA knock down all the barriers we're gonNA tear down all the walls we're going to disrupt we're gonNA innovate. I think there's basically no part of your brain going hold on. Am I going to start a world war and you're not questioning the destination? So you have these ideals. I'm creating this tool. That will help us get to this thing that I think we all agree. Right is where we're going so let's get let's get there faster and so there's this thing where I call it the gleaming vehicle of progress. It's just like look at this vehicle. It's so fast. It's so sleek. It's so beautiful and nobody asks where it's going because it's like well it's it's just like a self driving car like it'll get us there right and you're like what if there's a giant wall that it's about to run into well don't you think an element of that is because I will sometimes get spun up about a new direction. We're heading in society governmentally. Whatever you WANNA call it globally and I'm starting to get wound up about it. Let's say it's generally because I'm getting older Triggered by younger generations and what they prioritize in how they compute the world. And I'm like I'm bristling at it. And then a a big part of my brain goes. This is never stopping. It's never slowing down. It's never ceasing to evolve. There is no destination it has a momentum. That is irrelevant in the equation. So even if I don't think that we've agreed upon the destination I do feel like the march forward is inevitable in almost not worth my trying to steer it. I guess what I would say is. The march is inevitable It's the forward part that I question. Okay so I think one thing that I had to work hard to sort of clarify is that. It doesn't mean that there are these two choices that are optimism or pessimism or phones will need us all together in this beautiful way or throw all the phones. Yeah I think the way out is neither optimism nor pessimism but this concept of contingency it is going to be what we make it so rather than less thr- all the phones off a bridge or rather than let's sit back and let the phones do whatever they do because it'll probably be good. It's just we don't know we have to make the future be what it is right. So where I was going with the contingency irony solidarity the irony is what he means by. Irony is very technical definition of irony. Meaning like the ability to reflect on the possibility that your deepest held convictions might be wrong. Yeah and that is something that I think. A lot of the Silicon Valley people really struggle. So you started by saying well. How'd you get to the trolls? All this very airy abstract stuff. That was sort of swimming around in my brain because of how I like to work. I did not want to say okay. Let me make an argument about this stuff. Let me make a polemic Read about why I think. Social Media's good or bad or write what I like to do is take all these ideas and confusions and sort of things that I'm not sure how to feel about in go out into the world and try to like weave together people and narratives and moments like a like kind of documentary film. Almost art projects like right. But I guess the fact that you're interested in before you you launched into this. You're kind of aware. Obviously you're seeing that Let's say you're on twitter. Where most of our twitter you're like. Oh Wow there's a lot of angry people. There is a lot of people that are in camps. There's a lot of fighting the place. I come from This at least aspect of it seems to be the worst of our nature Or that there's this anonymity to it that allows us to act in ways we actually don't act like What place starting from where you've starting from frustration with the way that say social media and the Internet's working or frustration and kind of anxiety of like whereas how bad will get yeah Some of it was sort of observing twitter and read it and all these things and anonymity we should get back to because facebook is not anonymous but facebook is full of problems. So it's not any one of these factors anonymity is one factor but there's lots of other factors too because I spent a lot of time at the offices of read it which is anonymous but in many ways. They're more proactive. About cleaning up their mess is okay because read. It is a super fascinating part of this. But it's the one thing I still don't understand conceptually literally people. Tell me about like reddit thread. I don't know what they're talking. I met the kid who Who INVENTED IT Alexis? Great Guy Alexis. Loved him even asked him? I don't think I understood after he was done. I don't just someone starts a topic and then people just they write indefinitely on the same topic. Is that what it is? This is another thing where being in the room helps you like see. I just sat in the red at offices in San Francisco for a long time The basic architecture of it is very simple. It's used to just be links. Here's a link. Then they added comments. Here's my comment on that link. Okay added up votes down votes. I liked your comment. I didn't like your comment They're thinking again because of this kind of basic sort of Topi and frame was like this is democracy It's it's literally voting. Yeah upper down They didn't anticipate pylons they didn't anticipate what they call brigade ing. They didn't anticipate water. Pylons you decide I don't like Pomeranian. Sixty seven and I'm just going to destroy her regardless of what she says her because it's usually her. Yeah Yeah Who are the targets of the disagreement immediately unravels into? I hope you get raped totally. Generally right there's always some kind of war just read of physical to a woman everyb- yes or everybody jump in here and download her as quickly as possible. Yeah and this is part of the answer to how I was able to do. Some of this work was just like they don't go after men in the same way I met some real save people and they didn't like me because I was a journalist. They didn't like me because I was Jewish in some cases but I'm not a woman kind of okay right. It sucks but it's real. My wife would sort of listen in. Sometimes I'd do these interviews in in the house and she could hear and she'd be like they weirdly. Kinda want your respect..

facebook twitter netflix Youtube Myanmar Harvey Weinstein Stephen Colbert Lebron instagram Robert Moses Marburg l. Richard Bertie reddit Silicon Valley
"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

16:16 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

"You know and it's for a project on your search history was probably a little little embarrassed search history and my algorithms and Youtube would be like. Do you want to buy a diamond mine? Do you WANNA buy a secret gun holster. I didn't have the foresight to do like a separate work and personal account. It would just be weird pickup artists stuff. And then like Lebron Highlights Stephen Colbert and so the algorithm was like who are you? Yes you're describing my netflix account. Because my kids sign into my name recommended all these Unicorn cartoons and while they are off base on me. I think it's kind of cool to just confused the algorithms as much as possible but so it started out as these kind of more abstract questions and less than a political context. It didn't seem like a politics story at the time. It seemed like maybe a text story a business story kind of culture story and so I was exploring like okay. It feels like everything is getting broken into these decontextualize chopped up. Bits where you never go to any homepage ever anymore. It's just your feed throwing things in your face. Yeah that and that goes for everything that goes for brands. Companies People. Whatever it's all sort of based on what the Algorithm wants to send you which as we just discussed is based on search history but it's also based on triggering. The most extreme immediate emotions mia as possible quickly and so. Those are good fuel for action. Yes yeah specifically the actions of Click. Scroll share comment. Those are literally the only things the can measure yes algorithm can't reach into your brain and Golic. Wow this thing really made you think really changed you. It really made you a better person that it is just blind to all of that all it knows is did you smash button right. Did we capture your attention? This amount of time totally and get you to do things on top of the time. Get you comment. I love this. Yeah those are the only things that can capture so in a way. That wasn't intentional. When these you know Silicon Valley disruptor people set out to do this. I think they really believed yes. They wanted to make money. And all this stuff and they want power but I think they really believed like we are going to give people what they want l. for sure and then they just didn't fully think through. It's like how when you are like building cities and you're like hey we've got this great thing called a car and it can get you places faster. Why would we not do that? And then fifty years later. You're like Oh that's going to literally baked the planet. It's kind of equivalent. They just didn't think it all through. Yeah well it's moving so fast and their defense pretend someone could be ahead of. It is is a little naive totally totally. I think we'll get into this but I think there are ways they could have and should have adjusted over the course of that time. Instead of they've kind of dug in their heels well we just interviewed the head of Instagram Adam. And he was I thought very transparent in their many failings he was in charge of the Facebook newsfeed before he went over to instagram and he was being vocal and sounding alarms. And all these different things and yeah. He's just like yet. We didn't think everything. Also we learn things like real time as as the media's learning pointed it out quite often we're learning it at the same time so I'm mildly sympathetic to what they're doing. It's not like the point of the work or the book is to be an expose of like these are the worst people in the world or just not like Harvey Weinstein type figures. They're more like I would say like the people who design cities and buildings and cars thought they were building. This beautiful You Know Look Kabuga or Robert Moses running these people where you have this beautiful thing being built that also has these massive consequences And then it's a question to me of. How much can you think? And self reflect and be kind of supple and flexible enough to go like the thing you built your entire life on not only your fortune and fame but also just your entire life if you think about. Marburg's life yeah. Yeah literally his entire life. Ninety percent built on this one thing Since he was nineteen years old is long. I'm sure when he closes his eyes and thinks of himself? I think facebook is inter meshed into that. Oh it's like and I try to think of it from the perspective of like if you suddenly told me that trying your hardest to write beautiful sentences capture the perfect crystalline reality of the world. We live in is actually like killing babies in Myanmar. Sure sure I'd be like downstream. Doesn't make soured wrap your head around. It would take time. Yeah but there is this thing the philosopher Richard Bertie. Who's like a little bit of a sort of backdrop to the book? Sorority is like this massively important. American pragmatist philosopher who kind of hard to pin down simply but one of my favorite of his books. Contingency Irony and solidarity contingency is essentially. The end of the story isn't written yet. Everything is contingent. Everything could have happened one way or another way. Like essentially he's arguing against this idea of progress will sort of become this thing that works itself out right. Whether it's through Marxism there will be this natural class struggle or whether it's enlightenment you know the rationality of humans will naturally Lita. He's against all that stuff. It's not gonNA there's no natural course of history And it has to be decided. It had people have to do it. Yeah yeah so like it may be the case that human ingenuity and rationality brings to. It's not just going to be given. Yeah it's not this Galions or of course of history thing and the reason. I thought that was important to bring up for this stuff. Is that when you are someone who just at nineteen drops out of college and starts a thing that ends up being the biggest information tool ever known in human history? You're not a philosopher. You're not a historian. You're building something cool and you. I think you imbibe without really realizing just these cultural ideas of like free speech good History is a march of progress. We live in a time where you know the more globally. We get knitted together. The fewer wars will have the more prosperity will have all these things. You don't articulate them but they're just like the the water you're swimming in. Yeah so that when you build a thing where you're like we're going to knock down all the barriers we're gonNA tear down all the walls we're going to disrupt we're gonNA innovate. I think there's basically no part of your brain going hold on. Am I going to start a world war and you're not questioning the destination? So you have these ideals. I'm creating this tool. That will help us get to this thing that I think we all agree. Right is where we're going so let's get let's get there faster and so there's this thing where I call it the gleaming vehicle of progress. It's just like look at this vehicle. It's so fast. It's so sleek. It's so beautiful and nobody asks where it's going because it's like well it's it's just like a self driving car like it'll get us there right and you're like what if there's a giant wall that it's about to run into well don't you think an element of that is because I will sometimes get spun up about a new direction. We're heading in society governmentally. Whatever you WANNA call it globally and I'm starting to get wound up about it. Let's say it's generally because I'm getting older Triggered by younger generations and what they prioritize in how they compute the world. And I'm like I'm bristling at it. And then a a big part of my brain goes. This is never stopping. It's never slowing down. It's never ceasing to evolve. There is no destination it has a momentum. That is irrelevant in the equation. So even if I don't think that we've agreed upon the destination I do feel like the march forward is inevitable in almost not worth my trying to steer it. I guess what I would say is. The march is inevitable It's the forward part that I question. Okay so I think one thing that I had to work hard to sort of clarify is that. It doesn't mean that there are these two choices that are optimism or pessimism or phones will need us all together in this beautiful way or throw all the phones. Yeah I think the way out is neither optimism nor pessimism but this concept of contingency it is going to be what we make it so rather than less thr- all the phones off a bridge or rather than let's sit back and let the phones do whatever they do because it'll probably be good. It's just we don't know we have to make the future be what it is right. So where I was going with the contingency irony solidarity the irony part is what he means by. Irony is very technical definition of irony. Meaning like the ability to reflect on the possibility that your deepest held convictions might be wrong. Yeah and that is something that I think. A lot of the Silicon Valley people really struggle. So you started by saying well. How'd you get to the trolls? All this very airy abstract stuff. That was sort of swimming around in my brain because of how I like to work. I did not want to say okay. Let me make an argument about this stuff. Let me make a polemic Read about why I think. Social Media's good or bad or write what I like to do is take all these ideas and confusions and sort of things that I'm not sure how to feel about in go out into the world and try to like weave together people and narratives and moments like a like kind of documentary film. Almost art projects like right. But I guess the fact that you're interested in before you you launched into this. You're kind of aware. Obviously you're seeing that Let's say you're on twitter. Where most of our on twitter. You're like Oh wow. There's a lot of angry people. There is a lot of people that are in camps. There's a lot of fighting the place I come from is like This at least aspect of it seems to be the worst of our nature Or that there's this anonymity to it that allows us to act in ways we actually don't act like What place starting from where you've starting from frustration with the way that say social media and the Internet's working or frustration and kind of anxiety of like whereas how bad will get yeah Some of it was sort of observing twitter and read it and all these things and anonymity we should get back to because facebook is not anonymous but facebook is full of problems and so it's not any one of these factors anonymity is one factor. But there's lots of other factors too because I spent a lot of time at the offices of read it which is anonymous but in many ways. They're more proactive about cleaning up. Their mess is okay because read. It is a super fascinating part of this. But it's the one thing I still don't understand conceptually literally people. Tell me about like reddit thread. I don't know what they're talking. I met the kid who Who INVENTED IT Alexis? Great Guy Alexis. Loved him even asked him? I don't think I understood after he was done. I don't just someone starts a topic and then people just they write indefinitely on the same topic. Is that what it is? This is another thing where being in the room helps you like see. I just sat in the red at offices in San Francisco for a long time The basic architecture of it is very simple. It's used to just be links. Here's a link. Then they added comments. Here's my comment on that link. Okay and he added up votes down votes. I liked your comment. I didn't like your comment. they're thinking again because of this kind of basic sort of techno. Topi and frame was like this is democracy It's it's literally voting. Yeah upper down They didn't anticipate pylons they didn't anticipate what they call brigade ing. They didn't anticipate water. Pylons you decide I don't like Pomeranian. Sixty seven and I'm just going to destroy her regardless of what she says her because it's usually her. Yeah Yeah Who are the targets of the disagreement immediately unravels into? I hope you get raped totally. Generally right there's always some kind of war just read of physical to a woman everyb- yes or everybody jump in here and download her as quickly as possible. Yeah and this is part of the answer to how I was able to do. Some of this work was just like they don't go after men in the same way I met some real save people and they didn't like me because I was a journalist. They didn't like me because I was Jewish in some cases but I'm not a woman kind of okay right. It sucks but it's real. My wife would sort of listen in. Sometimes I'd do these interviews in in the house and she could hear and she'd be like they weirdly. Kinda want your respect..

facebook twitter netflix Youtube Myanmar Harvey Weinstein Stephen Colbert Lebron instagram Robert Moses Marburg l. Richard Bertie reddit Silicon Valley
"marantz" Discussed on Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

12:34 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

"Welcome welcome welcome. Norm expert experts on expert. I'm DAX Shepard. I'm joined by Maximus. Miles low maximus maximus today. Good I like you and your maximum. It's Saturday even though days are nothing. It's still the weekend so we're still going to celebrate. We have a really interesting gentlemen today. By the name of Andrew Marantz. He is an American author and journalist. He wrote the two thousand. Nineteen Book Anti Social Online extremists. Techno Utopians and the hijacking of the American conversation. He went undercover to find out. Who's writing all these crazy messages on the Internet? Yeah is really interesting. He gets to know people that we kind of I think in society deem as like trolls will write off as troll generally yeah and then there's varying levels of that were there now involved in semi terrorist plots. Yeah IT GETS DARK. Hurt sure does so. Please enjoy Andrew Marantz. He's know.

Andrew Marantz DAX Shepard
"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

12:33 min | 4 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

"Welcome welcome welcome. Norm expert experts on expert. I'm DAX Shepard. I'm joined by Maximus. Miles low maximus maximus today. Good I like you and your maximum. It's Saturday even though days are nothing. It's still the weekend so we're still going to celebrate. We have a really interesting gentlemen today. By the name of Andrew Marantz he is an American in journalists. He wrote the two thousand. Nineteen Book Anti Social Online Extremists Techno Utopians and the hijacking of the American conversation. He went undercover to find out. Who's writing all these crazy messages on the Internet? Yeah is really interesting. He gets to know people that we kind of I think in society deem as like trolls will write off as troll generally yeah and then there's varying levels of that were there now involved in semi terrorist plots. Yeah IT GETS DARK. Hurt sure does so. Please enjoy Andrew Marantz. He's know.

Andrew Marantz DAX Shepard
The Speaking Opportunity We Have Right Now

RED - The Marketing Podcast For Experts

09:30 min | 4 months ago

The Speaking Opportunity We Have Right Now

"Right after I released the last episode that is when Corona Virus. Hit the reason you haven't heard from me on this follow up episode was because I wanted to wait just a minute to get a feel for what was happening because it seems like what's happening changes daily. I can't give you a lot of accurate information. As far as how corona virus will affect your business other than sane. Things will come back around. They might be different but they will come back. Eventually we will start getting together again eventually. People are going to want that human connection they want it now. But we've got these substitutes. We've got podcast like this one. Like your podcast. Maybe blog post email newsletters but speaking at least in person that is not one of those things that we have now however because it is coming back. If you're ready for it you are going to be in great shape. So let's get you ready. I want you to think about the stock market in the nineties. Everybody was making money. But you had to have money in order to make money. If you weren't able to invest in the stock market in the nineties you couldn't take advantage of it and in order to invest. You had to do the work before the thing hit. They didn't know it was going to hit like it did. And that's what I'm trying to get you to do now. You can't remember the nineties. Maybe you weren't born yet thinking about real estate over the last few years the boom boom that we've seen in real estate over the last few years that same type of boom is going to happen for live events and speaking like. I said we're going to be ready to get out wherever you ready to see. People again and when that switch is flipped. You'RE GOING TO BE READY FOR IT. On the last episode grant covered a lot of ideas regarding speaking. And he's certainly done a lot more speaking than I have because speaking was his job for me speaking his way to spread a message. It's a way that I built my company. It is a way for me to get information out to people that I want them to know so I want to share some big ideas on speaking there from a little bit of a different perspective. This is from a guy who had a business has a business and uses speaking to grow that business built connection with people and to make money sometimes directly through the speaking sometimes. It's something related to the speech that I'm giving. Maybe I'm getting business directly from that speaking in. Sometimes it's just to expand my authority because when you come in like an expert you don't have to market as hard people come to you and you are able to charge more when you were seen as a celebrity in your business. So here's some big ideas on speaking from that perspective. Somebody who does speak a lot but does speak on a regular basis. By the way I had about four events cancel within a week after Corona virus hit a road warrior. But I'm doing this on a pretty regular basis and have been doing this for awhile and that brings me to my first big. Id Ah you need to jump in with speaking and the way that you may be able to do that now just to get that training be ready for when that switch flips and we're ready to go back to live. Speaking is doing it via online broadcast via live broadcast that could be via zoom. Something like spreaker. If you're more of an audio person that lets you distribute your message live just like a broadcast radio show. And here's the point of why you WanNa do that. The only way for you to get better in front of a live audience is to get in front of a live audience. I started doing radio in nineteen ninety one and when I started it wasn't live on the air. I wasn't a jock. I was a production guy. I was doing documentaries. I was doing stuff where I will go out. Do Research Comeback to the tape room and it was a tape room. It was literally magnetic tape that I had to slice with a razor blade. Taped back together with tape. I was doing much like I'm doing but the process took a lot longer. I will go out into the field with Marantz tape recorder like a cassette tape recorder and it was good but it was still on cassette comeback. Put It on a real. That's when I would chop it up. Get the edits in anyway. It took a while for me to get that content out the content wasn't live but it did get me used to speaking. So if you're doing a podcast even if it's not live while the best way for you to get used to speaking is live the skills you are developing by doing something you edit later. That's still going to help you. But it's not a replacement for getting out and doing it. Live the transition for me to doing live. Eventually I moved up. I guess it was move up to live on the air. Play music going in and out of tracks. Sometimes I would do interviews but not like. I'm doing now so that was a different skill. Had the live thing but it didn't have the long form content that I'm talking about now with either speech or doing something like a podcast and that transition continued with getting in front of a live audience like where I could actually see them was getting on various panels. I was flying around the country going to a lot of music marketing events. This is back in nineteen ninety-five in the late nineties tons of panels. Sometimes I moderate them. Sometimes I would just beyond them and I did dozens of these things from south by southwest in Austin Texas to see him Jay in New York to really anybody who would have me. I remember doing at least a couple of events in Athens Georgia Indianapolis. There's something to West. Virginia I was going anywhere and everywhere that would have me and for me. That was easy because I was able to bounce my message off of what somebody had previously said or more or less conversation with the people who are on stage with me. If you've got a podcast you might be able to relate to this because a lot of beginning podcasters what do you do you have a co host. Yeah people that you're interviewing you like to bounce your message off of other people and it's not all on you to have one hundred percent of that content and that'll help you for eventually getting in front of a live audience but if you WanNa get good doing something in front of a live audience one. You've got to do it. You're probably going to fail. It's going to at least be a little bit rough. It's got to be just you the very first speaking presentation that I had. I think it was the late nineties. Remember it was in. Philadelphia is an old theater on arch street again. I was used to doing panels but I had one of these independent music events. She said why. Don't you come on up here? We're not doing panels? But you can speak and I think the reason why she did that was because she didn't want to fly a bunch of panelist in imagine this. You've got five or six of these sessions. Each of them has three. Maybe five people. You've got to fly those people and you've got coordinate with them first of all you gotta find him. Even that can get complicated getting somebody to fly across the country just to sit on a panel for one hour so she wasn't doing panels and you'll see this with a lot of live event. It's much easier to fill in event with single speakers. Then it is panelist and I never done. Solis Behemoth Four. But I've been on panels before and I've been doing conference calls. We used to do this thing via the phone. I will get on speak much like it was a radio broadcast people who are calling in also via the phone. They would listen to me at a book. At the time I was very familiar with the content but on the other hand I had no idea what I was doing or what it was actually going to be like and this event. It wasn't really organized. She didn't walk me through the process. I was good at the skills that I had. The event promoter just assume that I was going to be able to get up there and speak by myself. I wasn't luckily a friend of mine. The air guy named Eric Sievers. You may have seen some of his. Ted Talks read some of his books. He was in the music business with me at the time. So he and I got in front. This group together heeded the heavy lifting and by that I mean he shared the stage with me. I was doing as much talk in his Derek. Was We're going back and forth with each other? It was a cool event. It wasn't like I was just hanging there in the sidecar but having him there enabled me mentally to organize my thoughts. It gave me more confidence because there was more or less like a panel. And tell you this story to say this if you are nervous about getting in front of a crowd. This may be an option for you since that time. I have organized and promoted a lot more events than I've spoken ad and I can tell you that this happens all the time. People want to come in as a package deal. They want business partner. Sometimes they'll won a spouse. They want somebody up there with them on stage. It also happens on radio. People are nervous about their voice going into the airways. The are nervous about people hearing them and sounding like an idiot. So they'll bring in a friend. Hey I can bring in a band with me. Hey could bring in this guy that I'm working with. He's got an interesting story does it lend me your option somewhat. You're going to a live event. People might not want to fly in the second person. You might be on your own for that but it is an option it will get you in the game and it may build your authority in a different way than you could do it on your own

Marantz Virginia Eric Sievers Athens Georgia Indianapolis Partner Austin Texas Philadelphia Ted Talks JAY New York
"marantz" Discussed on The Sporting Life with Jeremy Schaap

The Sporting Life with Jeremy Schaap

08:50 min | 9 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on The Sporting Life with Jeremy Schaap

"Here's Jeremy SCHAAP citizens Koi basketball in the making of a south Sudanese. American is a new book by my old friend and colleague Steve Marantz and it tells the story not only of an immigrant to the United States. Not only of basketball not only of assimilation nation in Omaha Nebraska for someone who's coming from such a different place South Sudan the newest nation the world although at the time that Citizen listen a Koi came here. It was not yet an independent nation. This is a book about so many different things and it is a pleasure to welcome to the sporting sporting life. Steve Ran Steve. Thank you for being with us. Jeremy thanks for for having appreciate it. Steve who is citizen a Koi hit the name of the Koya Roya Gal He was a south Sudanese refugee. Who came to America in Two two thousand two with his family They fled a civil war in Sudan and They first settled in Maryland for a a year And by the way their first Thanksgiving was in Maryland As we speak Thanksgiving is is tomorrow and There's a chapter in the book called First Thanksgiving and The they were they were the subject of a story by the Baltimore. Tamar son on their first Thanksgiving and they basically told the reporter how thankful they were to be in America Out of the civil war and with an opportunity to to build a new life but They stayed in Maryland for a year and went to Omaha. Because where you're you're from where I'm from so I have some roots there. So That's how I knew of his story unknown unbeknownst to a a lot of Americans Doma had the largest population of south Sudanese ex patriots in the country. About ten thousand. And how how did that had happened. Why how did how did Omaha become the place? Where so many south Sudanese started their American dreams? Yeah that's a good question I think a lot of it was that there were there. Were jobs there and Poultry and meat plants. They were decent paying jobs And Data and require a high level of education Were were English skills. And Housing was pretty affordable. You could get a decent place to live there and not you know. Use up all your paycheck and a and and the other thing a couple other things. The school system the public school systems very good and has been for a long time and and they knew that was a way to get a wake up to get their kids a good education. And then there's somethin' intangible about you know Omaha and that part in Nebraska it's it's open-minded it's It's compassionate it. There's there's a tradition. There you know opening up to To newcomers coach a long tradition of refugees coming into Omaha so you know the combination of of the factors. We're speaking with Steve Rant. About his new book citizen a Koi basketball in the making of a south Sudanese American and a KOI cow. He ends up being a great high school basketball player leading his team to four straight state championships in Omaha Central As you say one of the most successful high school athletes in the history of the state. How how did basketball play a role in his uniquely American journey? Yeah you know right off the top you mentioned that this was about assimilation and you know forever. He refugee here immigrant family. It's it's about trying to fit in to to the American life and and I think for a cool I know basketball law was his and he's route into similar assimilation. I mean it was clearly. He had Athletic skills that were desirable to you know American coaches. He was tall strong fast. Very you know he had a he was very coordinated and He was noticed by a lot of Amateur coaches you know. Maha and in high school coaches recruited him. So yeah you know not let me you know be clear. Not every immigrant or refugee has the athleticism there Koi has but he saw it as a way to to Help himself to become part of the community and you know uh ultimately to help his family. I think Steve. What is the larger story? You're telling about what it means. In the twenty first century to being gene immigrant in the United States particularly from a place like South Sudan from sub Saharan Africa from a place that was immersed for so along the longest running civil war on the planet. Yeah you know. They came out of a terrible terrible civil war and upheaval in that country and in his mother other stories the first chapter of the book and she had an awful. You know story to tell about fleeing from gunman and running through you know deserts and jungles just to you. Know to stay alive And she was a woman of incredible courage rich and bravery In getting her family out out of Sudan they they went to Cairo Egypt for three three or four years you know lived off. Menial jobs And her husband joined her he also was a victim of the civil war and he got out Sudan. But you know the larger story is you know I don't have to. I mentioned the political context of the time we live in today You know it's very controversial. Subject immigrants Wall on our southern border illegal immigrants. No the you know. The Gal family were legal accords. Mother studied and studied and learned about the constitution and she she became a citizen in two two thousand nine and because of that her children were able to have an easier route to citizenship. But I think the bigger story is that you know while we wring our hands about the threat and danger of immigrants on our southern border and And you know what it what it risk or threat. It is the American way of life according to certain people you know you have this immigrant refugee from Africa who came Omaha Nebraska and so enriched the community by his experience there by what he brought to Omaha in Omaha Central High School which is my Alma Mater. So I know the story I I know what what he meant to the people in the hallways that's school and the teachers and the administrators and they they you know they they call them the ambassador ambassador when they were trying to recruit kids that get you know to bring. Eighth graders to sign up for central high. They would they would have a Koi. You know I sure the kids through the hallways always and talk about the school so You know it's a beautiful story of how. This refugee family was embraced by the city of Omaha. I'm on by the high school and I just felt that you know in the in this time in this day and age it was it was worth telling because of because everything else we're hearing and going through. It is a story about Immigration and America in the twenty first century. St Branches. Latest dist book is citizen. A Koi basketball and the making of a south Sudanese American published by the University of Nebraska. Press Steve Congratulations. It's always a pleasure. I'm glad we could catch up. And thank you for coming on the sporting life. Jeremy you're always gracious. I thanks for.

Omaha South Sudan Steve Jeremy SCHAAP basketball Omaha Central High School Nebraska Steve Marantz America United States Maryland Steve Rant Steve Congratulations University of Nebraska Baltimore
Antisocial: Online Extremists, Techno-Utopians and the High-Jacking of the American Conversation

The Book Review

09:19 min | 9 months ago

Antisocial: Online Extremists, Techno-Utopians and the High-Jacking of the American Conversation

"Andrew Marantz joins us now from Chicago. He is a staff writer at the New Yorker occur and the author of a new book called Antisocial Online Extremists Techno Utopians and the hijacking of the American conversation enter. Thanks thanks for being here. Thanks for having me these pretty not nice people that you research for this book. I don't want to bum people out too much with the subject matter and I and I don't think of it as purely just trying to dunk people's heads in the scary toilet bowl of the Internet. You know my goal is not to just sort of tore people through who the badness and show it and say hey look at all these bad people. There is an element of that and I was spending three years hanging out in person primarily and also online with some pretty odious people. But it's really a kind of test case for what the Internet can do to us and kind of how we can understand it well enough to to pull ourselves out of it so so it's not merely just gawking. Seal injected teeny bit of hope. Perhaps into this world some hope some some diagnosis of where we're at and also I thought of it to use a kind of nerdy philosophical term. I thought of the whole thing as a kind of reductio AD absurdum that if we had a functional informational landscape this is not where we would have ended up so it's really sort of about how information in in technology and media have led us to the place where we're at now and how we got here all right before we get into the topic which is very serious on a lighter note. Perhaps I couldn't help. But I don't know if you've seen this movie on an airplane Longshot. With Seth Rogan. And Charlie's Theon have you heard about this or seen it. I haven't seen it okay. So it opens up with a journalist is sort of Gonzo journalist embedding himself with Neo Nazis and white nationalists and that whole world to write about them so I couldn't help it but picture that but in all seriousness. What was it like meeting people in person? And how hard was it to break into this world. The people I was going to as a whole range that we it wasn't doesn't purely neo Nazis. There were some Neo Nazis. who were very not thrilled about me? Being Jewish and that really became an issue with them way more than I expected. I didn't expect the antisemitism to be so front and center with some people that the Jews are really kind of at the center of their dark cosmology and with them that was really an issue issue. I mean there were people who would talk to me for hours and hours and then sort of halt in the middle of an interview and go wait. You're not a Jew are you and it'd be like come on man if you're your professional antisemites for a living and you can't figure me out your your job so that became awkward. What happened when you said yes? They would kind of get flustered and one guy in particular he had a podcast called the daily show which was his very funny. About the Holocaust he was a real true dyed-in-the-wool Anti Semite right and he would brag to his followers about how he had such good Jew Dr as he called it because they're obsessed with how Jews can pass as white even though by their lights. They're not really early white so he would constantly warn his listeners. You know you guys don't get it but I do. Because I grew up in the northeast. He actually was from this. Very very multicultural. Bucolic Golic New Jersey suburb where his father taught Beowulf at college. I mean he was really like Kinda. The Progressive Dream turned progressive nightmare and his parents ended up disowning in him. And I it was a whole thing and he actually as a sidebar was married to a Jewish woman which was complicated for him so he was his own kind of little Phillip Roth novel all of a person this is just sort of like one chapter of the book but when I start going down that rabbit hole with him and then he finally finds out that I'm Jewish in the middle of an interview. He he gets very flustered. He says you had red hair so that really threw me off. You know and I'm like again. You should have had that on your list of things to watch out for happens. Yeah yeah it does happen but then we kept talking for hours. I suggested that we meet up in person. And he picked a German beer hall for us to meet at and you know they they were constantly trying to throw thrown me off my game and sometimes it worked. I mean I I have to say sometimes. They're they're trolling was effective. Even at the level of kind of unnerving me other times they really didn't and I found it kind of clownish and silly like when I showed up at a German beer hall I was like okay. You know I'm just GonNa sit here and let you do your thing and try to you. Know he tried to have an argument with me about Israel which I did not indulge him in but for the most part the earlier parts of the book I really Kinda turned to the deeper Nazi. Not Stuff after Charlottesville. When it became clear that that was a national issue that I couldn't look away from the earlier stuff was more about what they call the light? As opposed is to the outright people who are misogynist people who are Islam phobic but they fall on the correct side of what they call the J Q which is the Jewish question and these are people who were fine with my being Jewish and they really are more motivated I would say by Sajjan xenophobia and other things and when I was in those spaces I never felt unsafe. I just had to hold my tongue you know and not object to everything I found objectionable or I would never. I wouldn't have been able to fly on the wall for three years. I would have left after five minutes and I just sort of Said Okay my job here as a New Yorker style reporter is to see people up close really get a feel for who they are when they're on their own when they're mask starts to slip and I can't do my the job if I am constantly showing my hands knowing that felt weird and conflict but I felt like I would get better I better servicing the reader by putting putting it in the book than by just doing it in the moment. We're not there to Gawk because you said it just merely to do a late cecile logical observation of these people. So what was your goal with the questions that were driving you and exploring the subject. I was worried about the purely ethnographic. I mean I like a lot of books that are pretty purely ethnographic and just sort of showing what a subculture is or does as you say that the more Gonzo thing. I wanted to stay away from that particularly in our charged moment. I wanted to do something that had a little bit. More Synthesis and analysis in it and so the questions will really one of the basic questions was just okay. The reason techno utopianism is in the subtitle of the book is we had this moment in the early twenty first century when a bunch of young guys. He's like a handful of young men uprooted everything we knew about how information was was disseminated in our society. -ociety they disrupted they innovated. They moved fast and broke things they had no plan for. What would supplant those thing? Even when they were asked they didn't have a clear vision of what this Utopian future would be like. They just assumed will topple. Everything will clear out all the cobwebs of traditional hierarchical means of communication in and then something better will automatically take its place and that to me was the underlying question of the book that the this this tacit and even sometimes explicit faith in American exceptionalism in the arc of history always Kinda automatically inevitably bending toward justice that leads people to have really dangerously naive politics and dangerously naive plans for their technological future. You know I mean. We don't think of things like facebook and twitter and read it as being inherently political. But you know I spent a lot of time reconstructing how those things came into being and I spent a Lotta time physically immersing myself in the offices of read it in particular and watching how they do have a test. Ideology that motivates them and the ideology was the marketplace of ideas will sort it all out and this book was really trying trying to prove demonstratively. That is not the case. The marketplace of ideas has failed to sort it out libertarian approach to the Internet yeah. They were proudly techno libertarian. They were very into you know Liz affair above all and you know it sounds really nice to say as twitter always said we're the free speech wing of the Free Speech Party that obviously obviously in a vacuum all things being equal being pro. Free speech is Great. It's just when you don't hold that intention with other things and when you don't imagine in your mind's eye hi how dark and weird and bad things can get not that they will automatically. I mean I don't WanNa replace the arc of history bending toward justice with an equally sure. Sure faith at the arc of history will bend toward terror. And I mean I'm not that much of a pessimist I'm just trying to replace our faith in inevitability with one of what I call them. The book contingency where lots of different things can happen. You kind of have to have guardrails in place. In case something weird happened and who would have thought given that motto for twitter they would have put a ban on political advertising. Yeah I mean we've come so far away farther than even when I was shopping. This book proposal around things have changed so much in terms of you know to use another kind of stock phrase the the way the overton window on these issues has moved. It has been really surprising to me and look. It's not naturally you can't expect people to anticipate everything but you know one of the analogies. I drive to hosting a party when you start a social media company any. They like to think of themselves as a town square. Or you know public criers or

Twitter German Beer Hall Seth Rogan Andrew Marantz Chicago Staff Writer Phillip Roth Israel Charlie Golic New Jersey Charlottesville Facebook LIZ Reporter Three Years Five Minutes
"marantz" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

11:29 min | 11 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"Like the person that the Google lax and the guy gets he's mad about the show and then he tries to storm out these were enrolled blitz and the kicker is all the writers who were there to Research Asia. They're like researching material for the show and they all look at each other like we can't use this right because it's too over the top and no one would believe it and they're like yeah it wouldn't it wouldn't play like it's too get so yeah. I'm doing pieces like that. I'm doing pieces about like you know Comedians Leslie Jones and Leslie Jones yet but then I feel like the was it the the story yeah about the Click Bait Guy. His name is escaping me right now. I feel like that to me was a moment where it felt like. You're doing something that maybe people the New Yorker didn't even quite understand understand. Possibly I WANNA say that but there's a bit in the book about how you're trying to convince people like this is a thing and it's the thing we should pay attention to. They're not they're not not like shutting you down but they're kind of like okay man. Do do what you want but I was curious of that. Was that story where we're Kinda pulled you into that world or had it already had ah yes so there's so in two thousand fourteen I think it was I met this guy. Emerson's parts Emerson sparked stream who we ended up in in one of the versions of the headline we ended up calling him the king of Click Bait which I felt was like a little mean but also fair and at the time like yet it's kind of like you're saying they weren't shutting me down but they they were Kinda like invading the other my bosses at the New Yorker were Kinda like all right prove. It prove that this is a big deal because there's a kind of pitch h that often happens at those Tuesday meetings that is there's a business doing something that sounds Kinda dodgy to which I think the appropriate sorta skeptical response is is there's lots of things that happen in the world that are people trying to make a buck and they kind of have to rise to a pretty high level of either outright criminality galaxy or there has to be some kind of real interesting scam. That's intrinsically interesting or there has to be some you know the thing I was describing was not like some criminal conspiracy or is it was just like there's this thing happening and it feels really gross and it feels like a harbinger of really bad things but I just didn't knowhow to conceive of it exactly so yes so they let me go do this thing because they could tell I was exercised about it. They could tell that it had like touched a nerve in me. Somehow they're like just yes you do it and actually that was one of the ones where I was still an editor at the time so I brought it into a meeting just for to put in the hopper for someone else to someone. Just take this yeah. I wasn't thinking thanks for myself and they I think correctly sense like you've got a feeling about this like you should be the one to do it because that's the other thing I mean a lot of these pieces. What matters matter is about? It is the alchemy between writer subject. It's not someone should really write a piece about Click Bait. It's like you. Should you have things to say and you're GONNA say them. In this imbedded way that infuses this is the voice and feeling of the peace so this kid you know I I was randomly seated next to him at a dinner and he started kind of imperiously explaining to me why hi his new media business model which was essentially just regurgitating garbage on the Internet. OMG FACTS DOT COM G. Fax Dot Com and uh-huh gives me hope dot com you know like kinda heartwarming facts chicken soup for the teenage soul for the twitter verse or something was one of their slogans like he would just turn this stuff stuff out and it would be one thing if he were Kinda like you know what man like I gotTa make a living and I just I found out that people will click on the shit if you serve it to them and that's just what I do like if it were sort of presented with some amount of humility but instead it was like the Internet is America crecy. I have figured figured out how to crack the code and therefore I am your overlord and like your dinosaur media will implode and I didn't think he was wrong about the employing part I just thought he was wrong to feel superior and so I was like exercised and I was like and I kinda was starting to put the pieces together in my head like okay and again. These are all obvious steps in a syllogism is just like I had never really liked worked it all out before it's like okay. There are very few checks on American businesses full stop. There are even fewer checks on American media businesses for very good reason like the First Amendment therefore any twenty six year old schmuck can come along mm-hmm and start a website for almost no money and disrupt the other websites such as and times dot Com and whatever like where does it stop what is to stop us from going from and I don't WanNa like paint a a an idealized vision of some golden age like there have always been penny papers burs. There's always been sensationalist. Yellow Journalism. Bob Is never been perfect. There's always been partisan press. There's always been open racism in the in the media but I guess what it was is that there was this tacit assumption that because it's technological improvement from a like cutting the fat you know business efficiency sense therefore it's civic improvement yeah we'll the disruption in and of itself as value yeah and it's like do you guys have ever looked up disruption the dictionary like why are you exalting this per se as a value value. There was just this basic on willingness to look at not even that I had some crystal ball and I was saying this will definitely turn out badly. It was just like it's possible that it will turn out badly and in fact you have to the burden of proof is on you to tell me why it won't as opposed to the opposite where at the time I mean it's hard remember now because this is turned so quickly yeah but it really was at the time two thousand fourteen even two thousand fifteen you show up at these parties like the conference where I met this dude and if you would say like I think this whole thing we're doing here is counterproductive. They wouldn't throw you out but they would like laugh at you like tonight yeah and it went. When did you start seeing the sort of like all right? Let's just say all right. There's a whole thing in the book about how difficult it is to categorize arises things but which we can get into but when did you start seeing that what was the first story that kind of like put those things together that it was going to be. It's not just a media. technological phenomenon people are creating platforms and they're being used certain way. It's actually like a political phenomenon yeah well. I kind of wish I could say that I was like really keyed heat into the Steph Rosie Gray and Charlie Zell and Joe Bernstein were writing and buzzfeed and I was really like following fortune and h obsessively and but that's not the truth is for me. Trump was the moment when I started going. Oh not only does this affect me and my relationships and not only is it annoying annoying when people pick up their phone during dinner and all that Shit but like who is in charge of the world's largest nuclear arsenal is dependent on the way like garbagey memes travel through these channels that people aren't even designing with any forethought that are just almost like emergent properties of capitalism. Uh so fair depressing yeah. It's not one of many things that I found depressing about your work Andrew. Sorry it's true I mean it's like it doesn't mean that this stuff was faded to happen or that. Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey wanted it to happen or that. They were sitting in a back room. You know going we will destroy democracy but it's not that it's like they wanted to make money. They wanted to make people addicted to their products. Just like any good good business person would WANNA do there. Were no checks on them in the way that like if you're making another addictive product like opioids or you know cigarettes or whatever it's maybe not not being the best example but like there were some there was something there is like a controlled drug schedules yes and this there was nothing to prescription. Exactly like that you can abuse is it but there's still something this was like nothing and also like this literally affects everything else like one of the analogies I ended up coming to was social media was that it's like a party like you started partying. At first. There's no one there and you feel pathetic and you're like how is this going to sustain itself and then a few of your friends French show up and then their friends show up and then you know you want it to be fun and interesting so you don't WanNa like hamper the mood you want to let everybody do whatever they want to do and let their freak flag fly and you know smoke a cigarette. If you WANNA smoke a cigarette like that's why this is cool party and then someone smokes a cigarette cigarette in someone else's like I have asthma really better if people didn't smoke in here and then you're like Oh okay now I have trade offs and I have to make rules you extrapolate that out and suddenly suddenly two billion people at your party. which has you know? FACEBOOK is what two point three billion people now. It's like bigger than Catholicism and Islam even that's too big of a party to control and so by the time you come in kind of ex post facto and start to try to make rules. It's like a little bit too late and also there's a very baked in ethos of we'll wait you said in the beginning of this party you said anything goes like you said this was going to be a cool party where people don't tell me what to do. Oh and then if you come in retroactively and start trying to make rules people start rebelling against you you start worrying that people are going to all decide to leave on mass and go to your rival party and or your or even worse like a party in China so you so you are constantly trying to maintain market share at the expense of making sure that people at your party aren't like burning couches and throwing them out the window. Although I feel like one of the things that is clear looking back that it wasn't like people were trying to control that at least until after the election it wasn't like people were trying to control that failing for the most part for the most part the kind of people people who started these companies were actually principally they had established the principle by which they would not try to do that. No matter what happened yet. It's like like if law enforcement comes to US and tells us that laws are being broken then maybe we'll look into it but other than that free speech and again like like a lot of these things free speech Great First Amendment great freedom of inquiry and freedom to be a contrarian and think for yourself like these are all good things but like all things they have have to be kind of held intention with other things and if you just become an absolutist and you just sort of say like dogmatically free speech is all that matters so therefore you can just shout racist insults at someone all day long and make them cry and leave and threatened to blow up their house like at a certain point there are limits. That's just how this stuff works works. When you're living in a society and these things the more they became less like a pathetic party with ten people and more like a society the more they had to kind of make up rules on the fly like as it was happening and they didn't know how to do it because they were coders who just wanted to make a cool thing? It was like if you had someone build a room for a party and then had them make up the laws by which that would they're like. I just want to make rooms so you have these things coming together. You're starting to see these things in your story. So there's there's the tech end of it which of the people who built these platforms and then there's sort of like the media part of it which is memes and Click Bait and things that that are sort of getting able to generate huge attention in a way that the old school media can't and then you have this kind of Lake.

Leslie Jones Emerson Google Research Asia Bob FACEBOOK editor writer Lake US Mark Zuckerberg China America Trump
"marantz" Discussed on Why Is This Happening? with Chris Hayes

Why Is This Happening? with Chris Hayes

03:54 min | 11 months ago

"marantz" Discussed on Why Is This Happening? with Chris Hayes

"Go read a Andrew. Thank you so much. Thank you once again my great thanks to Andrew Moran Staffer The New Yorker. The book is called Antisocial Online extremists techno Utopian hijacking jacking of the American conversation is out in two weeks on October eighth but it is available for preorder now and if you happen to come across it you will see that I- blurb the book which is something. I do fairly rarely early. I'm extremely enthusiastic about it. It's a fantastic read. You should definitely go. Check it out if you like this episode. There's a few others that we've done that. I relate there's a very early episode. We did back in two thousand eighteen with Tim. Wu called who broke the Internet. There's an article we did about the sort of power of big tacking particularly the big tech companies that have the most market control with Kashmir hill called blocking big tech back and there's a conversation I had with David Roberts at vox about what we called the information crisis which is all the ways in which our knowledge of the world are being broken down and reconstituted by malefactors in the information ecosystem so all of those are available at our website correction for something I said in the conversation loosening Chino who was the man from Ecuador who successfully got asylum here in the US and told the story I mentioned the Saint Louis which is the famous ship that had refugees refugees German Jews who were attempting to flee the Nazis and were turned away at us port and then eventually some back to Germany and I think I said in the conversation that they were all killed. That's not true there were nine hundred thirty seven passengers on the ship they were denied nine hundred tonight entry in the US in Cuba. They were sent back. They're not Europe Europe. However there were nine seven Jewish refugees who after negotiations were committed entry into Great Britain Belgium France The Netherlands of the six hundred twenty who gained asylum alum in continental Europe five hundred thirty two still remained with the Germans Veda nineteen forty and two hundred fifty four later died in the Holocaust just to get those numbers right they were not all killed. Obviously we still many many many deaths that were ultimately preventable had the US just simply allow these people to gain entrance the US but just wanted to make the factual correction as always you can tweet US Hashtag with body email with pallet at Gino Dot Com. We've been going through your feedback in something. That's come up a lot which we I want to note that we we see and hear is that transcripts have been spotty in getting onto the Internet sometimes they're not there for days and people are Wanna read the transcripts. I totally get that so we see all your comments about them. It can take days the transcripts to go up although they do always go up eventually but we're working on going through to make sure none are missing and we're also working on creating a process where the they go out much faster so you are seen and heard on that on that point. I really love transcripts because there can be really efficient and particularly if there's something that you heard in the conversation and want to go back and reference like a book that was mentioned or just a point made being able to actually just go scroll through is super useful. I find it useful so we will definitely keep doing that and try to get more prompt on that front. Also the width pod live tours happening this fall and our first date is at the Tribune Fest in Austin Texas. If you go to attribute fest which is the twitter handle or you Google Texas Tribune fast. It will take place to buy tickets to the Texas. Tribune tests was Austin Texas on Saturday September twenty eighth. I'll be interviewing in a live with pod. Ted Cruz the man you've all been clamoring for the number one guests that we get requested in our inbox and then the Hashtag just be I would say nine out of ten emails are basically like you gotta get Ted Cruz on with pods. We heard you we listened. This is essentially fan service. You'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA get Ted Cruz. There's live textures of course we will be doing that live in Texas in Austin on September twenty eighth. You should definitely come check that out. If you're at the festival or even not maybe buy a ticket the festival so you can come see it and then of course we will put it up as a podcast and so you can listen to that or not listen to that as you choose. Why is this happening is presented by MSNBC NBC News produced by the All in team and features music. Is it by Eddie Cooper. You can see more of our work including links.

Texas US Ted Cruz Austin Texas Europe Andrew Moran Eddie Cooper Gino Dot Com Kashmir hill Wu MSNBC David Roberts Tim Chino Great Britain Belgium Ecuador Germany twitter France
 Pirates trade Lyles, lose to Reds 11-6 on 10-run inning

The KDKA Radio Morning News with Larry Richert and John Shumway

00:58 sec | 1 year ago

Pirates trade Lyles, lose to Reds 11-6 on 10-run inning

"But data prior to actually find a taker for Jordan Lyle's but his replacement's couldn't do the job either as Alice McRae Morgan to wrap all combine to give up ten runs in the second inning alone eleven to six the final in Cincinnati the beleaguered Bucko serve now lost nine straight games questions for great difficulty I don't know I I'm not going to be a number there's no doubt about that yeah no doubt about that watching McRae scuffles tough enough for Clint hurdle but any I'd watch Josh bell throw a double play ball that could have ended the ending in five runs and then a few batters later Jose Iglesias at a grand slam off to rap to make it a ten spot fires finally at some home runs to starling Marte a bride rentals and Colin Moran Marantz grand slam but now I'm not pirates are Cincinnati again tonight Joe Musgrove against Hannah Rourke seven ten on the fan in exchange for a while so was sent to the brewers Milwaukee St twenty five year old double A. pitcher Cody Ponce a second round pick four years ago back to the pirates trade deadline is tomorrow

Jordan Lyle Alice Mcrae Morgan Cincinnati Bucko Josh Bell Jose Iglesias Marte Joe Musgrove Hannah Rourke Clint Colin Moran Cody Ponce Twenty Five Year Four Years