20 Episode results for "Manuel Noriega"

Crossover Week: Kingpins (Manuel Noriega Pt. 1)

Dictators

44:35 min | 5 months ago

Crossover Week: Kingpins (Manuel Noriega Pt. 1)

"Hi Listeners due to the unfortunate spread of Cova Nineteen Parkhouse has decided to temporarily halt recording this week. Although it pains us to make this decision we feel that. It is a necessary precaution to ensure the safety of our hosts and staff. In the meantime I can't wait for you to dive into the episodes. You're about to hear from another fantastic show. I host called kingpins like a dictator. A kingpins thirst for power is an unstoppable force. One that will destroy anyone who gets in its way. Well the certainly rings true. For Manuel Noriega the Panamanian politician. Who ran one of the most successful drug and gun trafficking rings in the world in the nineteen seventies and eighties? If you enjoy these episodes and want to hear. More Tales of history's most powerful criminals. Follow the park casts series kingpins on spotify new episodes premiere every Friday. Listen free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Do the graphic nature of this kingpins crimes listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of torture rape and murder that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. The scalpel cut through Hugo spotter. Foras thighs like a knife through butter. His Torso look like a strip mine is broken. Ribs ached under a thin veil of Bruce Skin. It was a miracle he was still conscious or a curse. Spot of four appeared up at the soldiers who had brought him here on their shoulders he could see patches for the Panamanian Defense Forces the personal army of his sworn enemy the shadow president Manuel Noriega. A soldier picked up a butcher knife and sliced spot afforest throat. He bled out slowly just as the men had been instructed. Finally Noriega soldiers cut his head off. They carve the number of their military unit into his torso wrapped it in a US. Postal bag and drove it into Costa Rica. It was a message. Anyone who disagreed with Noriega was not welcome in Panama and their righteous friends in the US wouldn't come to their assistance. Noriega Guzman call to tell him. The deed was done. The dictator slept soundly that night. Safe under the blind eye of the American government that backed him. Hi I'm how will heart and I'm Kate Leonard? And this is kingpins on the podcast network. Every Friday we journey inside the ranks of Organized Crime Rings From Street gangs to mafiosos to understand how a kingpin or Queen Pin Rises to the top of the underworld and why they fall as we follow lives of infamous crime. Bosses will explore how money and power change them and how it changed the community around them. This is our first episode on dictator. Manuel Antonio Noriega a tyrant who ran one of the most successful crime rings and Secret Intelligence monopolies in the world in the nineteen seventies and eighties. This week we'll be exploring his rise from CIA informant to the de facto leader of Panama. Next week we'll look at the events that toppled him from his tower bringing the entire bloody empire crashing down. You can listen to all of our cash shows on apple podcasts. Spotify stitcher Google play. Cast box or your favorite podcast directory. If you enjoy the show one of the best ways to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts clearcut black and white villains are a dime a dozen but the true monsters are the men and women who slither between the cracks there legitimate facades disguising the evil within from his place in the shadows Panamanian dictator. Manuel Noriega could do all manner of things. He could informed the CIA on his drug trafficking enemies while hushing up his own drug operation entirely he could steal guns on the CIA's orders. Then sell them to. Groups bent on genocide in nearby Nicaragua. He could murder his political opponents with snap of his fingers. Noriega slithered his way into bed with American intelligence becoming so valuable that the US stood by as he built his own empire of crime and corruption. He became one of the most controversial military dictators in the world. A master manipulator who convinced every world power that he was working solely for them while wantonly selling their secrets to the highest bidder. Manuel Noriega remains one of the most controversial figures in Latin American history. A man who bit the hand that fed him causing radical unrest and the near total collapse of democracy in Panama. He ruled an empire so powerful that it would take a literal invasion to stop him. It was nineteen eighty. Manuel Antonio Noriega called Tony for short was in fine spirits. As he headed to the airport he just been given the biggest assignments of his career on the orders of his boss. Panama's dictator Omar Torrijos. Tony and his fellow National Guard leader. Colonel Ruben Perez. Were heading to Cuba to deal with Fidel Castro. This mission was an unusual one from nineteen seventy two to nineteen eighty. Panama had been supplying weapons to Nicaragua's Revolutionary Sandinista Party. Thanks to Torrijos support and a bit of backing from the Cubans. The Sandinistas had taken control of Nicaragua. But now Cuba's President Fidel Castro was taking all the credit for the victory weakening Panama's power and influence in Nicaragua. Torrijos couldn't let that stand. Someone would have to go to Cuba to deal with Fidel Castro and that somebody would be his loyal intelligence. Chief Tony Noriega Tony. Strength had always lied and backdoor politics working in the shadows and developing friendships in places. His more arrogant peers ignored. This was the perfect opportunity to put his unique skills to use in Cuba. Tony and Colonel Parade. Ace took staunchly different approaches to their task parade as tried to bully Fidel Castro into backing down in Nicaragua. Tony on the other hand turned his attention to the attending intelligence officers from Cuba. The Soviet Union and the United States while Perez tried and failed to scare Castro into submission. Tony took the other officers out for drinks and whoring. It was never the wrong time to make friends in high places when parade. Ace was done. Tony swooped into Castro's office. He charmed the dictator chatting quietly about nothing in particular. He didn't even broach the topic of Nicaragua. No he was there to build a relationship. That would outlast. His bosses careers. Their party left Cuba without resolving the Nicaragua problem. But in the meantime Tony had convinced everyone. The Cubans the Soviets the Americans and Castro himself that have all the powerful men in Panama. He was the most levelheaded and reliable. Reliability should have been Manuel Antonio Noriega's middle name no matter which man army or government he was working for he was interested in one thing and one thing only power one might expect. The Noriega was born into the world of high powered deals in white collar crime. But in fact Noriega's rise was far more outstanding than that. Tony Noriega was born on February eleventh. Nineteen thirty four. The product of an illicit affair between an alcoholic accountant and his mixed race made. Tony was mystique Zo by birth. Meaning a mix of Indian black and Spanish. This immediately identified him as a second class citizen in Panama. Below the Caucasian Americans in the US owned canal zone and the lighter skinned Spanish citizens. Panama was a country ruled by connections. Hard workers were a dime a dozen and in the end. Making something of yourself was a matter of who you knew. In what country club you belong to as the bastard son of a poor maiden a father he'd never met. Tony lucked into exactly zero opportunities by birth. At the age of five Tony's mother gave him up to a schoolteacher named Louisa. Says Louisa doted on the boy and she made sure that he was always as clean and well dressed as the wealthiest students at school but his dark coloring did him no favours as a child and neither did his severe acne which left his face pockmarked by scars this earned him the cruel. Schoolyard nickname pineapple. Face A moniker. That would follow him for the rest of his life. Tell me was by an extreme shyness and unusual seriousness that forced him even further onto the fringes. Well he made some close friends. He was never much of a talker. He mostly just listened however he was a great student. As a result of his high grades. Tony was accepted the institute. Don't ask you know the Premier High School in Panama. When he was thirteen years old. It was there that he met his half brother. Luis Carlos Noriega. He never would have made the connection. If one of his friends hadn't pointed out that Louise's father looked exactly like an older version of Tony. Whatever thirteen year old Tony had been hoping for when he met his father for the first time he was sorely disappointed. Tony's father never particularly warm to him. Neither did his half siblings or his father's wife. The only exception was Luis Carlos. He was a flamboyant and openly gay young man in a deeply conservative Catholic country Lewis immediately bonded with Tony. A fellow black sheep who'd been forced to the edges of society by traits that were beyond his control shutout from conventional society. The boys had to find their own way to success. The encouraged each other to think beyond the limits of morality to get what they wanted without. Louise there may never have been a dictator Noriega in the first place. Louis Swiss Toni's first introduction to politics and the brand of politics. He practiced was far from idealistic in. Nineteen forty nine Lewis. Rigg Tony's election to the National Congress of students the Congress was technically a type of Model U N for high schoolers with. They took their roles very seriously. The students involve themselves in national politics with the fervor enforce of a full-fledged political party that year Lewis as head of the National Congress of students managed to uncover a secret treaty between the Panamanian government and the United States the treaty would basically allow the United States full authority over the canal and by Association Panama Almost indefinitely. Still only a high schooler. Lewis led the fight against the ratification of the treaty and took Tony along to the protests the student organization actually succeeded in preventing the treaty from being signed and Luiz. Carlos became a bit of a folk hero. Toni dove all in with his brothers political activism transforming through his high school career from bullied wallflower into extroverted leader. Surprisingly during this time Noriega lived and breathed a belief in socialism. He supported dismantling the military which he and his friends believed was too powerful and corrupt. The future military dictator was described by higher. Up says the most anti military person they had ever met. Tony's years after graduation however would be the undoing of his idealistic beliefs from nineteen fifty. Three to nineteen fifty-eight Tony found himself adrift. With no prospects of a career. Without family connections. There was no college enrollment or nepotistic job waiting for him. Once he taken off his graduation gown he'd had dreams of becoming a psychiatrist but medical school in Panama was reserved for the wealthy and well-connected he tried to get a scholarship but those were reserved for the sons and daughters of Americans who worked on the Panama Canal. Tony Manage to get a job as a laboratory technician. But he discovered that there to the other workers got ahead through family connections to add insult to injury because of his mosquito heritage and blemished face relationships were hard for him to come by outside of work overtime. His frustration blossomed into embittered resentment toward the upper classes with no one else to turn to. He began battering Luis Carlos for help. Louis hatched brilliant plan. Since his own graduation he had been working for. Panama's Foreign Minister Alino Boyd. Louise asked boy to write a letter of recommendation for his younger brother. With that letter Tony could apply for scholarships and admittance to the Torrijos military school the training ground for military leaders throughout Central and South America. If Tony could make it there he could write his ticket anywhere with boys recommendation. Letter in hand. Tony began his studies at the Torrijos Military School in Nineteen Fifty Eight at the age of twenty four. The puzzle pieces of Tony's life all began to fall into place after that on January first. Nineteen fifty nine. Fidel Castro wrested control of Cuba turning it into a communist stronghold. Us intelligence officers feared that his first order of business would be outsourcing communism to the United States the US government began scrambling for Intel particularly from military academies across Central and South America where tomorrow's revolutionaries were training. It wasn't long before Luis Carlos through his job at the Foreign Minister's office suggested Tony to the CIA. As a paid informant. It was an offer that would change the course of history coming up. We'll explore how Tony Excelled as a C. I A. Informant. And how he leveraged that position into untold and unchecked power now back to the story in nineteen fifty eight and well. Tonio Noriega began studying at the Torrijos military school by the next year. He was recruited to spy on his classmates as a paid informant for the CIA. Tony had been listening at the edges of society since childhood. Why not get paid for doing what he was already doing? Walling classes Tony would take two sets of notes notes. On the lectures and notes about his classmates. He went to rallies speeches parties and recreational club meetings then went back to his room and wrote down verbatim conversations. He gave his notebooks to Luiz Carlos. Who passed them on to his handlers at the CIA his invisibility sharp memory and attention to detail. Meet him the perfect informant. Most importantly he was reliable. The most reliable recruit the CIA had in the region he was sending in not just snippets but volumes of useful information like clockwork. With his informants. Pay For the first time in his life Tony could afford small luxuries. His military uniform decorated with gold buttons. He polished every day made him equal. In appearance. To the rest of the wealthy Peru's military academy was synonymous with wealth and prestige and his uniform. Shielded him from the mistreatment indigenous and misdeeds though citizens experienced throughout Latin America but he still witnessed the racism constantly sometimes. It was as simple as a mosquito person. Being refused service at a restaurant at other times it was police brutality or even forced imprisonment. And even though Noriega was excelling in his studies other Panamanian cadets would often pull him aside to encourage him away from a military career they told him he was simply too low class by Panamanian standards to ever become an officer or in less polite words. He was too dark skinned to ever amount much. Tony's hatred of the upper classes only kept building for the most part. He hid it well but he can only take so much humiliation before he finally snapped in the summer of nineteen sixty the academy. Excuse the cadets for a few weeks vacation most of the wealthy students zipped back to their families houses across the continent twenty six year old. Tony didn't have that luxury. So instead he and two of his friends headed out for a night on the town in Lima. The Bar was notorious for its cheap full pours and beautiful women. Tony and his friends arrived in their handsome white uniforms. Flaunting their military prestige. One of Tony's friends pointed out a dark-haired sex worker waiting across the bar the young men agreed to share her services over the course of the night as the first of the three cadets took his turn Tony as other friend drank and danced. Tony noticed the attention. They garnered in uniform. He'd never commanded respect like this before he was no longer just a small dark skinned young man with a pockmarked face he was a cadet after his second friend returned. Tony stood up to take his turn with the woman but as he approached he could tell. She lost some of her enthusiasm. She told him her price had doubled. Tony Look back at his friends watching him from their table. Smirks on their faces. He could barely afforded her original price and she obviously knew it but it was about more than the price he could see in her face that he repelled her. If he didn't have sex with this woman he would lose all his credibility and masculinity at the academy by Dawn. The cadets gossiped like schoolgirls with a quick tug on her elbow the yanked the woman into an Empty Room. He later bragged that he could still remember how his fists smashed into her nose as he sent her crashing to the floor before she could call out for help he beat her unconscious raped her and left her in the room to die. She was a punching bag for the repressed anger. Tony had felt his entire life. A scapegoat as invisible to society as he was when news reached. Us intelligence that one of their best informants had raped and nearly beaten a prostitute to death. The response was deafening in that. There wasn't one Noriega was simply too valuable. Not to protect he stayed on as payroll and the incident passed into obscurity after graduating from the Torrijos military school in Nineteen Sixty two. Tony moved back to Panama but he found out his prestigious training could only take him so far. Without family connections he was still shut out of an actual military job. The Panamanian military was more than a combat force. They were a political body that controlled most of the government. Panama had a civilian president and a government that were elected by the people but the true power rested with the National Guard. Panama's military. The National Guard was more of a militia of about five thousand men but they had the manpower and legal authority to oversee public services push legislation and run most of the government's agencies. They more or less ruled the country as a martial state often rigging elections to keep the civilian officials in their favor. If Tony hoped to get anywhere he would have to break his way into the elite boys club. That was the National Guard for someone of his background. That wasn't going to be easy. However he had been so successful as an informant that the Americans offered him a lucrative job in the canal zone the Panama Canal and the territory surrounding it had been under. Us controls since one thousand nine. Oh three the canal zone was described as a replica of small town. America recreated in the jungle governed under Jim Crow laws between fifty and one hundred thousand people live there in the sixties both American and Panamanian. Tony would survey roads while collecting Intel about the Panamanians that worked beside him. It was a cushy gig almost impossible for a Panamanian citizen toget- Tony was about to turn twenty eight and he finally felt like he was making progress. He had prestige money to burn and he could women way out of his league but his time in canal zone wouldn't last long. There were bigger and brighter things on the horizon in February of nineteen sixty two. Tony took his woman of the week to a local carnival festival. She was pretty enough to boost his ego and pretty enough to catch the attention of major Omar Torrijos Torrijos was in his early thirties. Charismatic devilishly handsome. And the commander of the country's second largest National Guard Garrison Torrijos was so taken with Tony's date. He barely noticed quiet. Little man with the pineapple face standing beside her that is until he spoke up and mentioned his impressive job in the canal zone before. Long Tony Torrijos were hours. Deep into a political discussion about the future of Panama. The Sun went down the crowd dwindled. And the major realized the bright young man could be a valuable asset by the end of the night. Torrijos Tony to give up his American job and come to work for him. Torrijos ran one of the largest military garrisons in the country in his time however he was a pimp. Tony was tasked with collecting money from his network of sex workers. If he did well Torrijos promise to transition him into work for the military. From the moment he started. Tony showed cleverness. In strategy that other men lacked he worked long hours even nights and weekends to prove to his new boss just how valuable he could be. It worked by September nineteen sixty two. Torrijos secured him a position as a second lieutenant in the National Guard. And that's when the real work began because he was still working as an informant. Tony seem to know everything. About the opposition parties competing against Torrijos. He was also starting to accumulate dirt on all the men. Torrijos was trying to impress both in Panama and in the United States. He was a wellspring of Information. That never ran dry but only a few months into his new job. Tony's uncontrollable anger and violence almost cost him everything in late nineteen sixty two. He once again raped and beat a sex worker. This time in a police car with witnesses watching many Ontario hoses team urged him to fire. Tony if the scandal got out it could ruin Torrijos by association but Torrijos side another way. If he saved Tony from trouble now it would guarantee his loyalty. Moving forward. Antonis Valuable Intel might be worth risking the scandal so using his military and personal connections. Torrijos made the rape allegation. Go away he also promoted Tony to the position of transit department chief. The job wasn't prestigious but twenty eight year old. Tony Noriega would milk it for all. It was worth. He was now in charge of all buses. Taxis and chauffeurs in Cherokee the province along Panama's border with Costa Rica. It was a hotbed of her smuggling as well as revolutionary activity the Panamanian government wanted is on the anti military opposition party members gathering in the region while the CIA tapped tim for Intel about the communist groups. It was the perfect place to be and Tony made the most of it. He began recording every single conversation. That took place in vehicles and public spaces in the region. He recorded everyone from the butchers and priests to local officials and businessmen. This would become his favorite hobby. He began amassing files on every single person. Who stepped foot in the province including citizens dignitaries and his own bosses? It wasn't uncommon to catch glimpses of Noriega wearing sunglasses and a baseball cap as he sat in the dark corner of a nightclub listening close to the tables around him. In just a few short years he had a list of individuals he could bribe blackmail or threaten into becoming his informants creating his own network of eyes and ears so he no longer had to information for himself. If he didn't want to Tony's informant pay skyrocketed. He began making two and a half. Times is transit chief salary each month he married a fair skinned Spanish. Woman named FELICIA DODD marrying up by the standards of the country's racial hierarchy. He also now had the attention of Panama's higher ups. His new position came in Handy as Torrijos climbed his way up. Panama's military ladder. Even though the real power in Panama belonged to the military. The military's budget authority was decided by the elected civilian government as the nineteen sixty. Four election drew closer. It looked like anti military candidates. We're going to win the popular vote. Thirty year old transit department chief. Tony Noriega had a solution on election day. He bribed or threatened every chauffeur and taxi in Shuki to take meandering alternate routes to the polling stations preventing opposition party supporters from reaching the polls on time in retaliation. Opposition leaders blew up. An electrical station Noriega then bribed drivers to pick the culprits up and drive them to jail whereas men were waiting to interrogate them. Noriega was testing. Just how much he could get away with. He sat and watched as his men tied to re hosts enemies to the prison wall and raped them with coke. Bottles and splintered broom handles. He didn't even hide his face. Word got out about the vicious Sasol's and for the first time in his career. Noriega was forced to disappear for a few weeks while the public uproar died down but he returned to work shortly after with Theresa's blessing and the CIA as blessing. Noriega's handlers had another assignment for him they targeted a young. Panamanian schoolteacher who had recently returned from Moscow with instructions to spread communism among the banana farmers. They knew she was staying in a motel. Insure Iki province in the room had already been bugged with surveillance equipment and listening devices. All Noriega had to do was listen from the room next. Door Noriega waited impatiently for hours. His room clouding with cigarette smoke. The headphones were getting heavy on his ears. And then finally. He heard the schoolteacher enter. Someone was with her laughter than the throws of passion. As Noriega listened a sly smile spread across his face. He knew the man in the room. He'd met him many times before shaking his hand and even eaten with his family. It was Moses Torrijos. His boss's brother not only was noises already married but his mistress was a communist. If word got out in Panama it would destroy Omar Torrijos his career. This was the Intel of the century. He was so thrilled he even invited an old friend. From the military school to the motel. To listen in Noriega respected Torrijos. He was his mentor. Almost a father figure but the day might come when a tape like this could save him from trouble. Tony Noriega was now untouchable. After the couple left Noriega let himself into the teacher's room and found a love letter she'd written to Moses he delicately tucked it away in his private files for safekeeping and went home to his wife by nineteen sixty seven. Thirty-three-year-old Noriega was a feared figure in Panamanian backrooms everywhere rebel groups retreated into back rooms of their own to avoid his prying eyes and ears and with less intelligence coming in. Tony found himself with an enormous amount of free. Time Noriega turned to his CIA contacts. Who offered him more advanced intelligent strategies in nineteen sixty seven alone? He took American courses on counterintelligence Psychological Warfare Military Intelligence Jungle. Warfare cartography engineering and parachute training. He then turned to the Israelis and Taiwanese for police investigation training. He learned how to twist media articles to destroy reputations and how to use misinformation to confuse protesters and as he had always done he listened in on other students conversations which provided a crash course on political happenings around the globe when he came back from his year long educational tour he was given a task that would put all his new training to good. Use Helping Torrijos steal the dictatorship of Panama when we come back we'll explore Noriega's meteoric assent as the Panamanian dictators. Right hand man now back to the story in nineteen sixty seven Manuel. Antonio Noriega was an unstoppable force he had eyes and ears on every political happening in the country the US had trained him in all manner of counter intelligence and he had lucked into a key piece of Intel about his bosses family that all but ensured he would have a job for years to come. There was just one thing that could get in the way of his success in nineteen sixty eight beloved populist and anti military leader our new foe. Arias won the presidential election in a landslide. Victory Arias First Order of business would be to disrupt the National Guards monopoly. Power Torrijos Noriega had to act. They turn to the National Guards Major Martinez for help. Martinez worked the troops from day to day and the forces would go to war in an instant if he asked Martinez and Noriega devised a plan to get rid of Arias. A Strategy Noriega head learned from his studies in America. They found out that Arias and his wife were at the cinema. For the evening they sent a messenger to warn Arias. The National Guard soldiers were planning to surround the cinema and execute him. Of course they weren't actually going to do that. But Noriega new. The message alone would scare Arias into fleeing which is exactly what he did. Arias was on a flight to Miami before the film was even halfway over without a president there to stop him. Omar Torrijos declared himself Commandante of Panama. The country's next military dictator. He appointed his own puppet. President to govern in Aria says absence for his success Noriega became deputy of the National Guards General Staff and assumed command of the Second Infantry Company. No one in the country had ever ascended the military ranks so quickly. Noriega didn't have time to revel in his new position with guerrilla fighters rallying to reinstate Arias. There was work to be done. He used wartime torture methods to crack down on the rebel fighters he spread rumors and misinformation through the countryside to stave off revolt and then he helped. Torrijos Major Martinez. The man who had helped him become dictator in the first place. Noriega lured Martinez Torrijos. His office then bound the major with green military tastes and put him on a plane to Miami. Always playing the Double Game Noriega phoned up his CIA handlers to tell them Martinez was on his way in exchange for ousting. Martinez Noriega assumed command of the fifth military zone. Taking Command of the border with Costa Rica from this position Noriega could rest control all the smuggling operations near the border taking a cut off the top in exchange for the national guards protection drugs and guns flowed like water from country to country supervised and directed by Noriega's garrison of the National Guard. But it wasn't long before Torrijos. Scheming caught up with him. The Americans had been shocked by the coup against Arias and even more surprised to see Major Martinez show up duct taped on their doorstep. Noriega hadn't told them the coup was going to happen the CIA knew their informant maintained his authority and access by humoring Torrijos. His every whim so they didn't blame him but they were furious. At Torrijos American intelligence agents had hoped Arias would keep us Panama relations friendly negotiations about whether the US would retain control of the canal zone had been going on for years. Arias wasn't exactly pro American. But he had wanted to find a peaceful resolution to the conflict but Torrijos through it all into chaos with Arias is forced removal from office. Peaceful negotiations were crippled and civil unrest sword while Torrijos was on vacation in Mexico in December nineteen. Sixty-nine US officials reached out to American friendly. National Guardsmen stationed across Panama and instructed them to stage a coup. The first call they made was to. Tony Noriega it was two. Am on December fifteenth. One thousand nine hundred sixty nine. Tony Noriega was woken from a deep sleep to find himself between a rock and a firing squad. The soldier on the other end of the line made it clear that Torrijos his time was up. That was non-negotiable. He only had one question for Noriega. Would he help oust the man who had mentored him throughout his career or would he fight back and suffer the same? Fate as Torrijos Noriega told the soldier that he would ask his own troops who they cited with buying himself time to scheme. He immediately reached out to his brother. Luis Carlos who was still working in the civilian government. Despite Noriega extensive intelligence reach he had no way of knowing just how many national guard soldiers were working for the Americans. He and Louise did know from experience. That whichever side. The Americans bag stood the greatest chance of winning. The safest path forward was to play. Both sides Noriega called the soldier back. He agreed to help stage. A coup against Torrijos. So long as Luis Carlos was given the powerful position of Minister of Government. This would be his protection against total obliteration. If Torrijos was dethroned as soon as he hung up he got in contact with Torito's who is still vacationing in Mexico. Torrijos needed to return to Panama immediately and regain control before it was too late. The only question was how with the rebels watching the roads into the capital. There was only a slim chance for Torrijos to make it back into Panama City without being assassinated or taken hostage. What if he didn't make it back within the next day the rebels would take control and tell the world that Torrijos was gone? Tony could only help so much without blowing his cover. Everything he did for the next twenty four hours would have to fly under the radar if there was any hope of success. Tony Sanneh pilot pickup Torrijos and Mexico. Meanwhile he recruited trusted men in his National Guard unit to drive their trucks quietly into the jungle to an isolated airfield where Torrijos would be landing. He reached out to his network of informants. Who kept him up to date on the minute to minute. Actions as the troops began to amass in the capital. If even one soldier involved in the coup learned that Noriega was helping Torrijos his career would be over if he was lucky. They'd ship him and his family to the states. If he was unlucky they cut off his testicles and hang him from a telephone pole in Panama City as a warning to traders Noriega's camouflaged military trucks were tucked into the forest out of sight on the off chance those involved in the coup were watching this airstrip to then they heard it. Noriega called out on the radio waited for the pilots code word. Sure enough. He had to Rio's onboard as Torrijos set out in the convoy toward Panama. City Noriega State. Back waiting to see if his mentor would retake the capital or die. Trying sure enough. Torrijos return to Panama City with even more public support than when he'd left it the simple fact that he'd return to peacefully take back his country from a military coup earned him the people's respect. The public quickly forgot that he'd come to power through his own coup in the first place. Tony Noriega celebrated in private. He had played both sides. And one again Torrijos. Now owed Noriega everything. He promoted him to lieutenant colonel and put him in charge of the country's military intelligence agency. The G. to his first task was to court as many foreign powers as possible starting with the Soviet Union Cuba and Israel so Panama would no longer be dependent on the Americans for support. Unbeknownst to Torrijos Noriega already had contacts and each of those countries from his informant. Work Noriega also led an investigation to expose the Americans role in the coup to convince the people. They could no longer play. America's puppet despite all the anti-american sentiment. He was stirring up. He was still passing intelligence on his enemies. The CIA and FBI Torrijos enjoyed extreme popularity as military dictator behind his handpicked. Puppet President but popularity doesn't always translate into effective leadership for host was lazy and he quickly grew. Bored of the MUNDANITY is overrunning a country. He left the actual operations of government. To Noriega and Noriega was a brutal master under his watch. Panama became a haven for corruption. Torrijos Noriega turned the country into a banking empire that rivaled Switzerland promising all investors absolute secrecy lax tax laws and easy avenues for money laundering. The country went from having banks to over a hundred and just under three years most of them dealing exclusively in dirty money. Of course Noriega and Torrijos gladly accepted. Cut off the top. Us intelligence knew about everything. They turned a blind eye. As long as Noriega handed over all his supposedly secret records un-american shareholders and Shell corporations meanwhile Nixon's war on drugs had US intelligence salivating for Intel about South American Cartels Noriega happily handed over information about rival cartels while neglecting to mention the drug smuggling empire he'd taken over at the with Costa Rica. The US was too preoccupied with drugs. To even bother looking into the millions of dollars of guns. That Noriega was selling to rebel groups in Nicaragua by nineteen seventy six forty two year. Old Noriega was Panama's highest ranking liaison both openly and covertly with the CIA FBI DA and US military. He ran a money laundering and smuggling empire with total impunity. The only person he had answered to was Omar Torrijos and he had the leverage to keep the dictator on his side for years to come. Tony Noriega the poor mistakes. Oh boy with a pockmarked face had risen to near absolute and unchecked power. He may not have worn the crown but sometimes the real kingpin is the man behind the throne. Thanks again for listening to kingpins. Join US next week to see. How Manuel Antonio Noriega ascended the final rung of the ladder replacing his mentor as the military dictator of Panama will examine how he became so powerful so cruel and so corrupt it took an entire invasion to knock him off his pedestal. You can find kingpins as well as all of our casts other podcasts on Apple podcasts spotify stitcher. Google play cast box or your favorite podcast directory. Many of you have asked how to help the show. And if you enjoyed this the best way to help is to leave a five star review. We'll see you next time. Kingpins was created by Max Cutler and is a production of cutler media and is part of the podcast network it is produced by Max and Ron Cutler. Sound design by Michael Lang's ner with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Paul Moller Additional Production Assistance by Maggie admire and Carly Madden kingpins is written by Jordan. Tr- appear in stars Kate Leonard. And how will target?

Tony Noriega Tony Thirty-three-year-old Noriega Panama Omar Torrijos Torrijos Noriega Panama United States CIA Tony Noriega Manuel Noriega Luis Carlos Noriega Noriega Guzman Manuel Antonio Noriega National Guard Torrijos Noriega State Intel Torrijos military school Cuba Luis Carlos
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38:52 min | 8 months ago

37 - War Powers and Impeachment Update

"Hearing the Song Panama in in the late Nineteen Eighty S. Wouldn't be all that weird. It had such memorable lyrics like hot shoe vernon down the avenue. Got An on ramp coming through my bedroom and Panama was the last hit single. The Band van Halen recorded with their lead singer. David Lee Roth before he left the band in nineteen eighty. It would be weird if you were the dictator of Latin American country country. And you were hiding out. In the Vatican embassy in Panama City and the American military would not stop playing see on December Twentieth Nineteen eighty-nine the United States invaded Panama. President Bush sent out American troops there mainly to capture. General Manuel Noriega the self-proclaimed named maximum leader of the country. The United States had a complicated relationship with the military dictator of Panama. Sometimes Noriega had been an ally but sometimes alarms. He wasn't in the late eighties. Noriega where La Pena or pimple faced. Because of his pockmark skin was increasingly a problem because because he played both sides sometimes he helped the United States by providing information to its intelligence agencies and sometimes he tipped off drug cartels in nineteen eighty eight to federal courts in the United States indicted Noriega on drug trafficking charges. The general had also cancelled the results. Colts Panamas nineteen eighty-nine presidential election and in December of nineteen eighty nine Panamanian troops shot and killed an unarmed American soldier in Panama animosity. That was it for president. George H W Bush on December twentieth nineteen eighty nine at one in the morning American can troops invaded Panama and overwhelmed the Panamanian Defense Forces twenty-three Americans were killed and where the three hundred were wounded Panamanian. Dan Casualties were high to at least five hundred. Although the number is disputed and Noriega he escaped the initial invasion and showed up four days later at the Vatican embassy in Panama City and thus a standoff started and so did the musical logical warfare the the US army blasted van Halen's Panama from speaker set up in a vacant lot across from the embassy. They also played hits from twisted sister and David David Bowie. It was a non stop onslaught of deafening music. Why partly to make sure that military communications couldn't be intercepted but also because Noriega reportedly hated rock music? He was known to be an opera buff. In fact in his nineteen ninety-seven Memoir Noriega said that the music music blasted at him. During the invasion was scorching diabolical noise a roaring mind-bending did and maybe worked on January third. Nineteen Ninety Noriega surrendered himself to US military authorities within hours. He was on a military transport plane to Florida to face. Federal charges as a criminal. Defendant Noriega would eventually be put on trial convicted and spend decades behind bars. I in the United States than in France and eventually back in Panama Ma where he died in two thousand seventeen President Bush stated publicly. On the day of Noriega surrender that the US used its resources in a manner manner consistent with political diplomatic and moral principles operation just cause had used twenty seven thousand troops against a Panamanian Manian force of about twelve thousand. But was this a legal use of American troops. The United Nations didn't think so and voted to condemn the the American vision of Panama. The UN called it a flagrant violation of international law. And what about America Ma. There's a federal federal law called the war powers resolution. The law expects a role for the president and for Congress whenever American troops are sent abroad and armed conflict. President Bush didn't exactly follow it to the letter but Congress didn't complain either and the invasion of Panama. Ah stands out for this strange silence. In January of twenty twenty president trump made what is probably one of the most significant get foreign policy decisions in his presidency to order the killing of Iran's top military commander Qassim Sulejmani this time Congress. Chris has not been silent so members of the House and the Senate or arguing that trump has broken the law. So has he well stone Divino. ooh This is. What trump can teach us about con an ongoing monthly series of indefinite length? Where we take the tweets of the forty fifth president of the United States and his critics to use them to examine our constitution like we never have before for our music is from doom fi records? Professor and neighbor is Elizabeth. Joe And I'm your fellow student and host Roman Mars. It's January twenty twenty the year two thousand twenty shows up a lot in science fiction. A lot of people predicted that by now we'd be teleporting to work or living on Mars and a lot of those predictions wrong. The truth is will usually get the future all wrong which is why we need life insurance right. That's where policy genius can help. NOPE policy genius makes finding the right life insurance a breeze trust me. I've done it myself in minutes. You compare quotes with top insurers and find the best price you could save fifteen hundred dollars or for more a year by using policy. Deans to compare life insurance policies. And once you apply the policy genius team gets in touch and they handle all the paperwork and red tape so if your science fiction dreams for twenty twenty s still haven't become science fact. Don't get discouraged. Get Life Insurance. It takes us a few minutes to find your best price and apply at policy. Genius DOT DOT COM policy. Genius will always get the future wrong. Better get life insurance right. The constitution says a couple of very specific things about who is responsible. For what when it comes to waging war. Congress has the power under Article One of the Constitution to declare war and also to organize and pay for the military. The president of the United States is the commander commander in chief of the military. But what the constitution isn't very clear about is what happens when the United States is not at war but the president sends American troops abroad in some situation of armed conflict. The constitution doesn't say anything about that. This has been an important issue ever since the bombing of Pearl Harbor. which is the last time? Congress formerly declared war sometimes Congress and the President may agree. That troops have to be sent abroad in a situation. Asian of Armed Conflict Congress can provide express approval. Probably the most well known example is right after September eleventh. Two Thousand One congress passed what is known as the two thousand and one authorization for the use of military force. It gave President George W Bush the authority to use use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations organizations or persons that he believed were connected to the nine eleven attacks believe even not that authorization remains in effect today and there's general agreement that the president of the United States has the authority to command troops to protect against a sudden attack against the United States. And that makes sense. It would take too much time to ask Congress for formal approval so example. I always give to my students. This is you know. IMAGINE INVADE AMERICA PRESIDENT GETS to defend the United States. That's the idea going to live on. We're going to survive today. We celebrate our Independence Day but there are so many instances that don't fall into these categories after the Vietnam War which itself wasn't a formally formally declared war. Congress decided to address these situations in what's called the war powers resolution. It's called a resolution but it's actually a federal law. In fact it became law over the veto of President Nixon. The war powers resolution contains a lot of different provisions but for our purposes. Here are the important parts. The president of the United States according to the law consent troops abroad in situations of armed conflict when one Congress's declared war two when Congress has given its approval in some other way or three when there's a national emergency the president's also required under the law to consult with Congress in every possible instance before he sends troops even if he doesn't do it beforehand. The president is also supposed to tell Congress within forty eight hours of already. Having sent troops abroad the war powers resolution also says that the president should withdraw the troops after sixty days unless Congress says it's okay for them to stay as you can tell the war powers resolution has at its core the idea that the president and Congress are supposed to work together in the important decision about whether or not to send American forces overseas in situations that the law calls hostilities. Is the war powers solution itself lawful every single president since Nixon has taken the position that the law interferes with the President's constitutional authority but what presidents have also generally complied with the law dozens of times since the war powers resolution became law. A typical thing presidents have done when committing committing troops abroad is to tell Congress. Well I'm telling you because the war powers resolution says so but then they also say but of course. I'm not required to do this. Under the Constitution Congress can put up a fight about these kinds of noncompliance and they sometimes do all of these issues were raised in a very tense week. Take this January and a very trump lakeway. The United States and Iran have had a very complicated and tense relationship over the past. Seventy odd years I don't WanNa want to get too much into it here. But it involves everything from the threat of nuclear power proxy wars to the control of the Middle East. While these tensions have existed for decades. There was a certain escalation. In December of two thousand and nineteen an Iranian backed militia group in Iraq attacked a military base. That attack led to the death of an American contractor and the wounding of other Americans and Iraqis this led to an American counterattack and on December thirty first the the. US Embassy in Baghdad was surrounded by thousands incited by that same iranian-backed militia at the heart of Iran's elite military and intelligence intelligence force was a man named General Qassim Soleimani. Most Americans probably had never heard of him before this but Sola money had important roles in the Syrian civil war. Iran's role in Iraq and intelligence networks across the Middle East Sulejmani was also behind hundreds of American deaths in Iraq on January second two thousand nineteen trump gave the order to how Soleimani killed. Hello in a dramatic escalation of tensions in the Middle East US Air strikes killed. Iran's most important military commander General Qasim was the commander of the could force of Iran's uh-huh elite Revolutionary Guards and at six thirty two that same evening. President trump cryptically tweeted out a picture of an American flag. No words just a low resolution J. PEG of an American flag. Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah. Ali Khamenei responded the next day by tweeting out a call for severe revenge following Souleymane. His killing trump responded to this tweet with a tweet storm of his own the next day January story fourth Iran is talking very boldly about targeting certain USA assets as revenge for ridding the world of their terrorist leader. Who who had just killed an American Iran has been nothing but problems for many years? Let this serve as a warning that if Iran strikes any Americans pickens were American acids we have targeted fifty two Iranian sites some at a very high level and important to Iran and the Iranian Indian culture and those targets in Iran itself will be hit very fast and very hard the USA wants no more threats. This tweet storm amounts to the president of the United States threatening to commit a warcrime the nineteen forty nine Geneva Convention considers attacking attacking the clearly recognized historic monuments works of art or places of worship which constitute the cultural or spiritual heritage of people's as a war a crime. The very state trump kept going with this he told reporters flying with him on your force. One that they're allowed to kill our people they're allowed to torture and maim our people. They're allowed to use roadside bombs and blow up our people and we're not allowed to touch their cultural site doesn't work that way. Trump's own defense secretary Mark Espera clarified two days later that no the United States was not going to strike cultural targets in Iran. Because doing so would in fact be a worker on then on January fifth during already tense week between Iran and the United States trump tweeted these media posts will serve as notification nation to the United States Congress that should Iran strike any US person or target the United States will quickly and fully strike back and perhaps APPs in a disproportionate manner. Such legal notice is not required but as given never the less. What's amazing about this tweet? It's both wrong and threatens to break the law at the same time so first trump threatens to react to any Iranian attack by striking. I'm back in a disproportionate manner. International experts will tell you that if a country takes action in Self-defense. It's supposed to be proportionate proportionate not disproportionate to the threat. It faces second is trump's so-called notification to Congress. He's trying to tell Congress that his tweet amounts wants to complying with the war powers resolution. Remember that the law has a notification requirement to Congress. Well tweeting is not one of the recognized forms of communication between the President and Congress could be it's not trump also says that he's not required to tell Congress anyway so that's not true at least according to the war powers resolution remember. The law says whenever the President sends the military in situations of armed conflict. He's supposed to tell tell Congress within forty eight hours. According to the law the president is supposed to consult with Congress in every possible instance before sending the American military into armed conflict. What actually happened? In the case of killing General Sola money trump did not consult with Congress beforehand in theory the war powers powers resolution contemplates. That congress is supposed to work with the president. Unless there's some really good reason why they can't so maybe you can't consult if there's some emergency agency. Was this such a situation at first. The trump administration said that the strike prevented an imminent attack on American interests. But then those explanations changed secretary of state. Mike Pompeo told Laura Ingraham on January nine. There is no doubt that there were a series of attacks. That were being plotted by Qassem. Soleimani we don't know precisely when and we don't know precisely where but it was real and then on January. Thirteenth trump tweeted the fake news media and their Democrat partners are working hard to determine whether or not the future attack by terrorists Lemani was imminent or not and was my team in agreement. The answer to both is a strong. Yes but it doesn't really matter because of his horrible past so it doesn't really matter matter according to trump whether it was imminent or not but that doesn't help in his noncompliance with the war powers resolution and what about that tweet notification to Congress it turns out that wealth forty eight hours after the drone strike. The White House did Sunday formal notification to Congress as they're supposed to do what did it say. We don't know because the notification was classified and not released to the public. So were we about to go to war with Iran on January very seventh. Iran retaliated against the United States by firing more than a dozen ballistic missiles at two Iraqi airbases where American military forces were located. No Americans were killed of some were reportedly injured and then the world watched foreign relations by tweet. Iran's foreign minister her tweeted Iran took and concluded proportionate measures in self defence. We do not seek esscalation or war but will defend ourselves against inst- any aggression. President trump responded by tweet all is well. Missiles launched from Iran a two military bases located in Iraq Iraq assessment of casualties and damages taking place. Now so far so good. We have the most powerful and well equipped military anywhere in the world. By far I will be making a statement tomorrow morning. The next day trump spoke from the White House told reporters that Iran appears to be standing ending down which is a good thing for all parties concerned and a very good thing for the world. Of course this was a volatile and tragic week in other respects because of these tensions chins Iran also accidentally shot down a Ukrainian Airlines flight on January eighth killing all one hundred seventy six people on board but between the United States and Iran on that for now appears to be that not for Congress though on January ninth. The House voted mostly along party lines to prevent trump from taking additional. Oh military action against Iran it was a non binding resolution however and thus doesn't have much practical effect the Senate will soon be voting on a similar measure measure introduced by senator. Tim Kaine that Bill has the possibility of becoming a federal law because if it is approved by the Senate then would also go to the house potentially but ultimately trump is very likely to veto. It and Congress doesn't have the votes to override that veto these congressional measures along with the various tweets the press conferences and speeches by members of Congress even by some Republicans show a concern that the president of the United States is overstepping his constitutional north already by failing to work with Congress. Well it's a classic trump issue right. Yes and no remember. The Panama Invasion President Bush did not consult with Congress before sending troops to depose an arrest. The leader of another country Bush did tell Congress that he was about to invade Panama Panama. A few hours ahead of time but that was not a consultation and keep in mind that the invasion of Panama was one of the largest deployments of American troops since the enactment of the war powers ars resolution. American soldiers died in the conflict and yet from Congress there was silence on Panama. There have been in many examples since the Vietnam War. When members of Congress introduced resolutions held hearings sent letters even filed lawsuits about presence? They felt were. We're not complying with the provisions of the war powers resolution. So why was Panama Different. Like most things. There's probably not one single reason public opinion and supported removing Noriega so did most of Congress and the major objective of the invasion taking Noriega from power and getting him back to the United States happened within days and it also happened while Congress was on its winter break. When they returned to session? The whole thing was over. There wasn't much to complain about. By contrast congressional reaction to trump's drone strike is more familiar historically congress is pushing back back against the president for ordering military action abroad without complying exactly with what the war powers resolution appears to require but this is trump and the part that is new is trump's brand of presidency the impulsiveness the conflicting rationales the tweeting back and forth. All of this gets mixed him with impeachment to on January ninth trump tweeted. Hope that all House Republicans will vote against crazy. Nancy Pelosi's war powers resolution also remember her speed and Russian. Getting the impeachment hoax voted on and done well. She never sent the articles to the Senate just another Democrat fraud presidential harassment so we have the quiet Panama incidents where we have the slightly more are you know. Like we're GONNA put some resolutions together that condemn this and someway. They've there've been times in between were. This has been tested in different ways. And how did it shake out. Yeah I mean this as I said it's you know what we're saying now with Iran is very familiar because what typically happens is there will be members of Congress who are very upset that the president you know very often of another party but not always has doing something that feels like is a breach of proper division about the war power. And you'll see speeches. You'll see things like this nonbinding resolution where saying now but nothing ever really gets resolved ultimately because number one. The constitution is pretty clear number. Two courts. Just don't WanNa to get involved in what is essentially feels like a political sort of issue what we see is like in the gaps where the Constitution doesn't say anything historically congressman. The prisoner always. It was sort of working something out. We never come to the brink of well then. Congress is going to pull money from the troops so they have to come home because that would be political. The death rate that's sort of their ultimate option so instead you see a lot of speechifying attempts at legislation and then ultimately some kind of compromise occurs and of course you know there's just public opinion can be very strong here in either weighing against what the president does or what Congress does so the short answer is no we've been going through the motions with the war powers resolution ever since it was enacted and literally every president since Nixon has said. I don't really have to comply with this but I'm just going to do it to make you unhappy and sometimes they don't even do that right. This is one of those rare cases in the history of this show in which the conflict between trump and in Congress is kind of typical feels refreshing right. Feels like this is normal. Weird part. Is the twitter part of it and these sort of bold admission of future war-crimes which is probably just related to the fact that he doesn't know what he's talking about that could be but yeah. There's the the twitter part is absolutely the novel part of it. Sort of the changing shifting rationales for what's happening also like the representatives it is of two countries on the brink of war. Potentially tweeting at each other seems bizarre. That's yeah so there's that there's that too but the actual constitutional conflict about whether or not the president has to comply is could be forced to comply with the word partners. Lucien that feels. That's kind of normal fire contract. That's happened a bunch of times on last week. In our view the president the administration conducted a provocative disproportionate airstrike against against Iran which endangered Americans and did so without consulting Congress. So if you want us to all join together let us have a strategy that we work together on. I do not believe in terms of what is in the public domain of that they have made the country safer what they did and that is what our responsibility is without a clear picture of your finances. You can't succeed exceed. That's where net suite by Oracle comes in net. Sweet offers a full picture of your finances all in one place in real time from your phone or desktop suite by Oracle is the number one cloud business system. It's what Syria's entrepreneurs and finance teams use. There's no more guessing or worrying about what could be hurting your company. That's why next week. Customers grow the three times faster than the S. and p. five hundred and you can to schedule your free demo right now and receive your free golf seven key strategies to grow your profits at net sweet dot com slash con law so the Free Demo and get your free guide today at sweet dot com slash con law. That's nets we dot com slash. Gone Law simplisafe home. Security is like getting commercial grade security but for your own home. It's comprehensive production. There's a break in simplisafe uses real video evidence to give police and I witness account of the grime. They also give you the ability to see if people are approaching your home with outdoor cameras in doorbell alerts and simplisafe offers twenty four seven monitoring by lives security professionals. You can set it up yourself. No tools needed or if that sounds daunting they can do it for you. And it's only fifty cents a day with no contracts so you get peace of mind for less than a cup of coffee visit simplisafe saved dot com slash con law. You'll get free shipping a sixty day risk-free trial. You got nothing to lose go now. Embitter SIMPLISAFE DOT COM SLASH CON law. So they know that our show sent do that's simplisave dot com slash con law so let's impeachment update and so today. It is January twenty first Tuesday January twenty first and were in the middle the middle where in the beginning of the Senate trial. That's right having hearing opening arguments today by the house managers and also responses by the president's lawyers. And at this point. There is a lot of of wrangling about Senate procedures about exactly whether or not witnesses will be called and what kinds of documents and evidence will be considered by the Senate Mercer. We're just getting getting started. And so this is a shifting landscape. So we're just going to talk about what we know at this point which may be a little different than when an audience member might be hearing this exact coordinate okay. So in December. The House passed two articles of impeachment against President Trump the first one alleges and abuse of power on the part of the president regarding his attempt to pressure assure Ukraine into opening investigation into Joe Biden and his son in exchange for military aid the second article charges trump trump with obstruction of congress by refusing to help the house in its investigation on January fifteenth. The House voted to send the formal articles of impeachment. Each man to the Senate seven house. Democrats were named as impeachment managers. These are sort of like prosecutors. Were supposed to meet the case against trump in the senate trial. They literally walked across the capital from the House Chamber to deliver two articles of impeachment to the Senate just a few hours before the Senate trial was to begin the the Government Accountability Office. which is a non-partisan agency and the federal government? It issued a report on trump's decision to withhold that almost four hundred million dollars was an aid to Ukraine and some context there's a provision of the constitution known as the take care clause that says the president shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed and according to the GAO report. Faithful execution of the law does not permit the president to substitute his own policy policy priorities. For those Congress has enacted into law the withholding was not a programmatic delay. So that's just a very formal way of saying. It appears at the president it did break the law according to the jail and that was just Thursday morning at five minutes past noon on January sixteenth. The seven house. Manager's arrived at the Senate. The Senate Sergeant at arms declared here ye here he here he. All persons are commanded to keep silent. Can't upon pain of imprisonment. He will say the same thing each day of the Senate trial. Only the third impeachment trial of a president in American history then came more formalities. As the Constitution itself states the chief justice of the Supreme Court presides over the Senate trial the President Chief Justice John Roberts was sworn in by Senator Charles Grassley the Senate president pro temporary if you want a sense of how formal the process is as the chief. Justice was transported to the United States capitol by car as he will every day of the Senate trial. Do you know where the Supreme Court is are. Are you in relation to the capital. It's bright behind it across the street. He's going to travel by car every day cross street. Yep It just gets in the car. It's like Warner brothers cartoon gets in guards anyway Then it was just as Robert Stern to administer the oath to dog senators. This is what the oath which has roots. In the seventeen hundred said do you solemnly swear that in all things appertaining to the trial of the impeachment of Donald John Trump president of the United States now pending you will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws. So help hope you got. They said this out loud but then they also individually signed an oath book so the senators are now. Jurors will hear evidence arguments presented by the House of Representatives and the White House to decide whether trump should be removed from office. The Senate then moved to issue a summons to President is in trump. That formally notified him of the trial and of the charges against him. On Saturday. January eighteenth the House submitted in one hundred eleven page opening trial brief it begins this way president. Donald J trump used his official powers to pressure or a foreign government to interfere Rene United States election for his personal political gain and then attempted to cover his scheme. By obstructing Congress's investigation into his misconduct. The constitution provides a remedy when the president commits such serious abuses of office impeachment and removal. The White House released a response the same same day. The seven page document begins the articles of impeachment submitted by House. Democrats are a dangerous attack on the right of the American people to freely choose their the president and on January twentieth. The White House formerly responded with its own one hundred ten page brief. The tone of its opening won't surprise you here. It is the articles of impeachment now before the Senate aren't affront to the constitution and to our democratic institutions the articles themselves the rigged process. That brought them here are a brazenly political act by House Democrats and the presence lawyers here have made a striking argument can't even if trump did abuse his powers in office. He can't be impeached because he hasn't been accused of a literal crime. It's a notable argument because most people with some knowledge of constitutional law agree that impeachable offenses don't have to be crimes that idea. He goes all the way back to the drafting of the impeachment. Clauses the convenient part of this argument for trump. It means that you don't have to argue about the facts. All you have to say is that the process is itself illegitimate. There was one call which was perfect and then there was the second call. I guess a couple of months later which was perfect. The president of Ukraine said it was perfect. This was a perfect call. And I think we're doing very well and their one hundred ten page rebuttal the White House's one hundred ten patron bottle when they use a word like raked like the way that trump speaks is the audience for that term term trump like pleasing him or is it really meant to convince congressmens convince the American people. What is it meant wanted do well? He's not going to read the brief. So the briefs for him that to the extent that any of that gets extracted into soundbites and little clips or pieces. The brief that are put on television for ten seconds I think it is meant for trump supporters. Because there's nothing. I don't think they're any serious arguments legal arguments. It's about impeachment. The very process here is rigged their. You know if it's like a trowel they'll be Fox and evidence and as we speak you know. The Senate is serve wrangling about procedure. And what's going to happen next But the rigged argument is of a piece with what trump's rallies are like and his general roll demeanor about institutions and. I think it's meant for an audience. First clips and memes and things like that is the brief like an official legal part the impeachment proceeding or as they were required. The house was required to file a brief and then the presence layers also filed a brief. You'll will then see what looks like you. It's like an approximation of a normal trial except there. A lot of outlying non normal trial like things you know the Senate sitting as a jury but there are also get to stay with the rules. Are they get to decide what the rules are which is of course not at all like a normal trial get to decide what evidence they wanna hear. That's not trial trail like it is not conventionally like trial so there's a lot of misleading things. I mean I think there's already some hope I think American public sometimes attach itself after great public figures. They feel will save the day. I mean Chief Justice Roberts under the terms of the constitution is not actually the judge in a conventional sense in the Senate trial. He's the presiding officer. So we'll see how it actually plays out. But the he'll be able to he'll be called upon to make some decisions but his decisions can also be be Overridden by the majority of the Senate right. So it's not like he gets to say what is going to happen. He might weigh in a little bit and he'll do formal things like you know. Read the senators questions at loud. But that's really doesn't require a huge amount of skill. I think what we should be prepared to see is as much a political spectacle spectacle as a legal one so of the senators. Make the rules and Roberts does happen to want to hold someone in contempt. They can override all right all right. Well I don't know that I don't think it will come to that. I mean I think basically the best way to think about it as you know normal ordinary run of the mill case is a jury just decides facts and the judge decides the law and they have those very clearly delineated roles but in the Senate trial the jury is going going to decide the facts but they also basically decide the law that they're going to apply to their own facts which is quite bizarre. And of course can't help but be part zander political because of Because of the process Your average judge cannot have his rulings overturned by the jury. But that's what you could see here even the opposite like a trial could happen and the judge can nullify the result if they feel like it violates that it's so tipped the balance of law in actual criminal case that yeah I mean. The jury has power new ordinary case to make ultimate factual determinations which can be things like guilt or innocence. Criminal trial but Like I said it's just don't don't put too much faith in in Robert Somehow like you know bringing down the fairness hammer. The present mentor. That way it's like not robust enough to handle a a real talent to it. I mean the the the biggest source of pressure would be public opinion and people weighing in so we shall see how long it takes may be over within a week or two or you take and this show is produced by Lisbeth. Joe Crisper Ruby and me Roman Mars you can find US online. At trump gone law dot com all the music and trump conlon's provided by dune tree records the Midwest hip hop collective. You can find out all about doom CI records get merch and learn about current tours and doom tree dot net. We are proud member of radio. Radio Tokyo from REX supported by listeners. Just like you the radio to X.

president Congress United States President trump Senate Iran trump Panama Manuel Noriega President George W Bush President Nixon trump White House George H W Bush Armed Conflict Congress Donald John Trump Constitution Congress
151 | An Accidental Drug Mule

Best Case Worst Case

37:59 min | 11 months ago

151 | An Accidental Drug Mule

"He has to lean in the Caribbean. Because he's having mechanical problems with the plane and he ends up. Indoor handover in flipping the plane down the runway it explodes in a fireball. Enjoy your free lobster and shrimp cocktail knowing that your life depends on the guy who keeps crashing planes and getting caught by and that's on their side on our side. Let me see criminal criminal criminal not ours. I throws Ruby. Okay y'all are you looking around your home and thinking I have got to prep for holiday. Guests will I am and I went to the company store. The company store has everything you need to get your home holiday ready. They have more than a hundred years of experience experience and they have all the world's finest materials for their bedding and they're bath and all the home decor collections. Those cute little pillows you put out for gas the great bath towels you WANNA put out. When you have your mother-in-law your father in law coming there's also lots of cheerful holiday decor little Christmas trees for your mantle and comforters that are covered covered by a lifetime guarantee filled with down or the company stores exclusive down Alternative Loft Air? The company store has everything you need to make your guest. I feel welcome and warm when they're visiting your house when the holidays approach what I WanNa do is snuggle in my own bed and the sheets that I got from the company store these these glorious soft Egyptian cotton make me want to go to bed early and stay in bed late. I love him and you can get them. And all the other things I've talked Abou Alfred Twenty percents off plus free shipping and rest easy returns just head to the company store dot com slash. Best case that's the company store dot com slash the best case. Tis the season to stay in. y'All so be sure to get your holiday home. Warm and cozy with the company store oil welcomes of best case. Worst Cases Jim Clemente retired. Rbi Profiler Foreign New York City writer-producer on CBS's criminal minds and with me today in the studio is hi everybody. It's Francey Hague's former state and federal prosecutor Jan Jam. We're back together. The Band is back together in the studio in La Insane place with one of our favorite and fan unfavorable Jess Hi Temple Mattie. Jim's brother former police officer former FBI agent counterterrorism agent now a writer and producer here ex-chief productions. Josh fantastic. I mean this. I'm feeling a little bit of a ladies out there in our listening audience. I'm feeling a little bit. Outnumbered here not only. Do I have two guys which happens all all the time. But it's to Clementi's that's an unusual situation Jim. I don't know if I can handle it. Careered extra productions Clementi rich production that is accurate accurate. But we're very glad to have you him really appreciate you spending some of your very tight schedule with us because our listeners literally clamor. When is Tim Clemente demented coming back with another story? So I- I corralled. You did and here you are. You guys should have seen. What do yesterday ten we need you on? The podcast is like I don't know and I'm like Tim. We need you on the podcast. I don't like you guys. I mean it was really tough will frenzy you corralling people. That's pretty not much of everyday thing is every every hour really so here. We are so tim. Where were you in your career? When this particular case you're thinking occurred? I was about a week into my. FBI special agent career just graduated from the FBI Academy and so that was after. How many years is police officer just over three and a half years with the saint? Louis police torment before I came into the FBI so as nineteen ninety-five when I got into the the FBI Academy in July of that year. July twenty third as a matter of fact. And then this case that I'm GonNa talk about began in November that year like I said a week after I graduated Edward From the Academy Do you remember what you were doing. Specifically when this case came to you I was assigned to the International Narcotics Squad in Washington field office the FBI. And one of the first things I had to do was organized and hosted F- Task Force meeting. OJ anytime you use all those letters in combination you gotta step back tell. Our our listeners wasn't Osip task for F- is organized. Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force so it's a federal task force set up by the federal government primarily through the FBI and da a to bring in local state and other law enforcement entities onto one task force target criminal entities primarily involving drugs. You know owes. It was great when I was a baby. Federal prosecutor were to always be now rings we had to do is go through the training section for the first six months and that meant we had to see a little little bit of every section in the. US Attorney's office and so that included the drugs action. And so I got the do you know one or two small cases with the DA and part in one of those was was on the task force. And I'll never forget going to the Osa deaf offices so every federal agency has their own offices but it seems like every federal agency also has like secret offices other places and they're not necessarily top secret so much as confidential secret because of what they're doing and Osa was one of those places and it was in downtown Atlanta in a secret location patients which I cannot disclose even if I remembered and it was like this mystery building and you would have never known federal agents were there. None of the cars look like normal. We'll agent cars and you walked in all the security to try to get in all the key codes and all that I'm GonNa talk to him got thrown out of that. I'M NOT GONNA say Jim. I'm taking the breath. No Okay because I know you've got thrown out of like Canada once. Canada doesn't like me. Dismal have access from nicest scared of nothing. I've been I've I've been kicked out of the Iraq war zone at least three times. Let's see and that's only clemente thing could only give you gotta warzone where there's war going on Bezos have is a really interesting task. Ask for him because as you said it brings together federal state and local authorities. And so they do a wide variety of cases. I mean from Real Street level. Crime all the way up to sophisticated wiretap under title three of the Federal Code. Yup that's exactly it. So how did the case present itself to you. Well what happened. Was We sat at the meeting. There were several local cops. There one cop from the Metropolitan Police arm in Washington D. C. M. P. D. as it's known name was Pablo Figueroa and Pablo was was a sergeant on the Narcotics Squad in Wash Metropolitan Police Department. And when I introduced myself at the meeting I mentioned I just come out of the academy and I was a cop and Saint Louis and so- Pablo came up to me after the meeting there were. Da guys there. There were guys from Virginia State Police Maryland State police other agencies. Pablo alone came up to me after the meeting and and said hey you're cop right and I said Yeah I said you know this is kind of an adjustment for me being an FBI agent. Now you know I liked working on the street and he said well. I got this letter from this guy in a prison in Maryland. And he's Kinda acting like a jailhouse lawyer for a guy I arrested and put in that prison and he said and it's written to the DA but he sent it to me to for me to give it to the DA and he said I hate the DA. I hate those guys. They steal our cases they steal all the glory steal your sources. They're not fair game players. There's he said but you were a cop so I trust you so you mind if I give you the letter and I said sure. Give me the letter. So he hands me this letter yet. It in his pocket. It's written by a guy named Ronald Eugene Jackson accent and he was a federal prisoner at Cumberland. Federal Penitentiary in Cumberland Maryland and his date of birth was July Fourth Nineteen thirty four. I remember it because Fourth of July and and he was acting on behalf of a young Guy Twenty or twenty one years old that had received a twenty two year sentence for his first arrest. Drug Arrests Jason was a few kilos of cocaine. But it was first arrested and Ronald Eugene Jackson Aka Ron Jackson figured that was a little much. So somebody railroaded with this guy so he was writing the letter. Saying I'd like to try and help this guy because I believe he got a bad deal and I think his lawyers probably paid for by the cartel and they wanted to send him up the river so he'd be out of their hair and out of their way 'cause they told him don't worry we'll appeal will appeal but they hadn't even filed for an appeal the weight. So what is Ron Jackson in prison for. That brings him come in contact with this young man who might have been. What do you think he might be in jail forever? I don't know Tim's the guest. I want him to tell me really. You're GonNa let them. I do not lie wrenching of glands. Well I actually have an answer to excellent. So Ron Jackson is in jail because Ron had been. He had a degree in English yet. Another degree in geology. He was a former marine who fought in the Korean War and he became a geologist. He was also a English teacher in high school. The geology was his passion and he had a little side business beside being teacher. Live down in Georgia in the Atlanta area. Now and in that area know if you're familiar you're with it but He would do water well drilling. And then when the oil boom kind of happened in the sixties and seventies and Texas he started drilling for oil in Texas so Georgia. There wasn't much oddly enough so he would commute from Atlanta to Texas mostly the Houston area and he was also pilot so he bought a small plane and he would put his drilling equipment on this small cargo plane and fly to Texas and do drilling because it's virtually very similar apparently for testing for water and testing for oil drilling. I should say so in. Houston he had his growing business drilling for oil and helping helping as a geologist determine where oil might be and that worked out great for awhile is making a lot of money commuting back to his home in in Georgia area and then one day the market when South and oil prices in the United States were climbing or dropping be based on the the flux in the seventies in the oil crisis crisis that occurred and so when the prices dropped people were not spending the money to drill for oil and didn't need his services anymore. So here's Ron with an airplane oil. Oh drilling equipment and no work now so turns out. There was a boom in South America at that time for oil discoveries in Colombia Venezuela other places in South America. I feel like I see where this is going. Jim Really Damn so you already having South I. I feel like it's going south and I feel like it's going into drug smuggling but I don't however sure so. Let's get your guests. You're going to stick with that. So Ron Jackson gets word on this. Boom that's happening in South America so he flies his plane in with the oil drilling equipment down to South America and there is such a clamor for oil exploration there that they pay him literally ten times times with that equipment was worth in the United States so instead of working down there with the equipment he realized I can sell this equipment and make more money and then he flew back to Texas. Bought more oil drilling equipment flew down South American soil data equipment and he was making a killing and so he realized this is a great business. I'm going to keep doing this. Import Export. Yeah that's the export part of it. And then he was approached by some people that said you know we notice. You're flying down here with equipment and flying back empty. How would you like to get paid for transporting things in both directions? And Ron said what do you have in mind. And they said well these little packages here that away about two point two pounds. Otherwise known as a kilogram. We'd like to give you some of these and have you just deliver them to wherever you're going and we'll have somebody pick it up from you and will pay handsomely for that. He realized what it was. It was drug said I have no interest in that and so he flew back to Texas. Got Moral Equipment flew back to South America Colombia Venezuela and other places sold that equipment and kept getting approached every time finally finally after many trips back and forth. They pleaded with him. Just do this one trip. Just fly this one load for us and he said what are you. What are you gonNa give me for it? And when they told him how much it was done deal. And how much was it It was significant eight. Figure I think a lot about eh sounds like that Tom Cruise. It's very much like that. Tom Cruise the N.. Ron knew the guy that that Tom Cruise movie is about. They were competitors but they were friends. I so ron flies this load back. He's sites at what the heck where I've flown in back and forth. Dozens of times never had any problem with the police or anybody else. I fly to the same Amir Strip. I fly to all the time on land. There no problem you pick up the dopes air and you're on your way but it didn't work out that way for deer. So Ron takes off from a different airstrip this time because ordinarily he's going to a place where he sells the equipment but instead he returns to another airstrip in northern Colombia picks up the load for them and then flies. What he doesn't know is that airstrip is being monitored? And it's being monitored by the United States Drug Enforcement Administration the DA as well as US Customs and border control. So when he launches he's being tracked immediately and once he gets over American airspace fighter jets and customs helicopters are in the air surrounding him and they force him Philan- and he's arrested just proving. That your first time can get you caught or yeah yeah and it can be your last time. But not necessarily for Ron Jackson right. So the moral of the story is does crime pay. That would be the question and the the answer I think. In this case we'll take a little explanation to decide so ryan gets arrested. He loses virtually all his professional connections. It's nobody wants to sell him equipment. Nobody in the oil industry trust him. He can't get a job as an English teacher again in a high school in Georgia so things have turned south and even in Georgia. Yeah we don't like drug dealing English teachers it's just a thing and it's somewhat understandable so at the same time Ron spends a little little bit of time in jail and he had a girlfriend at the time he was divorced and that girlfriend once he got arrested decided I am taking his car selling his house and all his belongings and and she disappears so Ryan literally has nothing is nothing except the ability to fly and knowledge of a market that exists between South America and America mark and so he still has a plane. They take away his pilot's license but they don't takeaways playing. There is a seizure thing that's going to take effect. It's a slow process. This run kind of skip off on his proceedings and flies back to South America gets more drugs flies in jumping bail male jammed. That might be called that and he He gets away with a few times bills up a little bit of a reputation down in South America as a daring. Do Guy and on his second or third trip. He has to land in the Caribbean. Because he's having mechanical problems with the plane and he ends up and over in flipping the plane down the runway it explodes in a fireball lands in the ocean. He's UN totally unhurt. Wrong first of all just this guy. I don't know of Boscell but good. I wish you could anyway. So Yeah flips end over. End Down the runway in a ball of fire. He has another buddy any of his. He's convinced to go on the trip with that. Buddy is lacking I'm done. I'll never doing this again. But Ron convinces them the doors. I engine problem. There was a landing gear problem. So now they've destroyed the plane and the load but the cartel doesn't care about that the cartel only cares about people that do bad things and bad. The things in the cartels opinion is cooperating. With the police Ron never cooperated and because he fled on the first arrest and went in off at went off and did these other loads for them mm-hmm and because he almost died trying to deliver load they consider that heroism. They consider that a great worthy person to have on their side so they reward him they they like up the amount that he you can move and they upped the amount. They're gonNA pay him so they buy him a new plane because having a white American Spanish speaking fluent I forgot to mention Ron was born in Panama. His father was American. His mother was from Panama and so he grew up. Bilingual grow up speaking English and Spanish in a in a both in American and Hispanic home. And he's a white guy dirty blond brown hair and spoke fluent Spanish without an accent English without an excellent with Iran's background and education. Asian Ron Ron really been ruled the world if he had not picked a life of crime agreed no doubt about it and again back to the question does crime pay uh-huh Y'all everyone knows. Your mental health is just as important as your physical health in thankfully there's talk space. The online talk therapy platform. That's with you. Twenty four seven talks. Base knows. Therapy isn't one-size-fits-all. And it shouldn't be. And that's why they match Gotcha with one of their five thousand plus licensed therapist based on your preferences. Unlike traditional therapy talks pace is entirely online from your phone or computer. Peter here's how it works. I create an account and speak to a matching agent. That will help identify. Your therapy needs. Then choose a plan that suits your budget of messaging and video. uh-huh base plans are available depending on the level of support. You want in finally talk. Space will pair you with the best suited therapists based on your needs. 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Many more loads and gets arrested ends up in federal prison for about I think he did about eight ten years on that. I Long Stanton done a couple of small ones. By the time I met Ron in November nineteen ninety-five he had done on a total of twenty three years in federal time. So that's a long long time. So Ron had been through some adventures in that time and between cleaned arrests and between periods of Incarceration Ron continued to go back every time and fly drugs. Okay so now ron's just dumb well. It's not just that he's dumb. Tom I will give you that. But it's also that Ron didn't leave himself a lot of other options again. He was a teacher and a geologist. He had no options to do either. We really did so so rather than look for legitimate work. Ron Look for the easy Bach and went back and it was a big easy buck for tell you. I've been a lot of prisons. I would do any stop at Jim. How many years anyway and I would do anything not to have to spend significant amounts is a time there so I just don't understand that agrued no and he had been in some really bad prison? This is a guy that was in the worst of the worst. I mean he had been I don't know about fifteen different. Prisons again moved around a lot so he never said he had yet ex wife and a few kids. Those kids grew up without him because he was behind bars. Or behind the stick of a plane and flags and he regretted that very much later in life but it was too late for him to really make much of a change with that and his kids grew up without Outrun Jackson and being an influence in their lives and maybe because of what he was doing. That's good that he wasn't an influence He had one daughter that became a police officer. So obviously obviously they did good despite what their father was But Ron when I met him was Let's see it was ninety five so he was sixty one on years old. I would imagine that makes it. So Ron Sixty one year old guy that it's been twenty three years in federal prison. He wrote this letter and So I soon as I got the letter I said. Let's go talk to the guy. Pablo Figueroa the Koppen. Empty said he's in Way Out in western Maryland two hundred miles from here. I can't go there. That's not in my jurisdiction. acidify deputize you you can. He said okay so I went to my boss said guy. Deputize Pablo Faucet sure so that baton we got my bucar. You just basically Xavier deputy now the they get sworn in they get a little. Id so now that means the federal government's GonNa pay for their overtime for their transportation. Whatever there Oughta so now he can work overtime? I'm on cases and he worked in Egan work outside his jurisdiction anywhere in a federal jurisdiction as a local copy can only work in DC but as as a deputized federal officer where he can work anywhere that we work so we deputize them. We get in a car. And we drive to Cumberland Maryland and we just show up at the prison and so I go and I'm we just show the prison show but the tim listen you had just gotten out of the FBI. Academy I feel certain somebody taught you procedure and that's definitely not in it as the visit in a lot of yes of course we had planned out in advance scheduled everything got all the permissions. Yeah well nobody. There was no procedure. I had ever heard of a plan for anything in your life. I'm just wondering Gingrich confidence ignorance of that and so I love more than it might so I drove out to the prison and got to the front office and the first guy I meet is guy by the first name Tim. I won't say his last name. Justin Casey still has a career. There wants to maintain it and thankfully I. I did what I always do. I brought swag with me so I had. FBI coins hats. T shirts all kinds of stuff in the car so jim you don't need deeper mission and advance notice. You just EAT SWAG DO I. Don't usually works. And so I met this guy. Tim's work in the front office. I explained we WANNA talk to this prisoner. He had written at this letter and he's like well. There's this whole procedure thing. Use that word you use and Kim. Some t shirts hats and coins for him though the guys in the office and I was like well. You KINDA help the FBI out in this all we WANNA do is talk to him. We're not taking him out of here. We're not doing anything else. And he said well there are visiting hours that start in an hour so all right. We'll put you on a visit. LoC and will will make a request to him. We can't guarantee he's going to talk to you. I said that's okay no problem so He got us in the door. We got in visitors room and sure enough here comes this grey haired Guy Walk in looking around and I said I bet. That's Ron Jackson and so I walked up to him said are you on. He said Yeah. And I said Might if I talked to you. And he's had over you and I said you wrote a letter the letter in my aunt and he said are you at the. Da and I said no better yet. I'm with the FBI. And he said Oh great so we sat down in a corner of the room that he now Um and I said What's the deal? How are you gonNA help this guy? You're talking like you're jailhouse lawyer and you're going to file an appeal. Is that what your plan is. And he said No. I'd like to you know if there's anything I can do to help this kid. Whatever it is I want to help them because I think he got stepped and I said well what would you be willing to do and you say well? I'd be willing to share my little black book with you. If any anything in there is a value you you can have it and I said well. What's your little black book? And he said well. I wasn't expecting this meeting but I go back to my cell and get it. I said go ahead get it goes back to his cell comes back ten minutes later and he's got this little black book literally a little black box. This is nineteen ninety-five so he wouldn't have had a cell phone anything anything like that. And he's in prison but he had had his little black book. And so I said I start flipping through it and I it opens on E. and I look in the first name I see as Pablo Escobar guts. Like twenty phone. Numbers burst his mother. His sister brothers home addresses everything else. And I said where'd you get Pablo Escobar Escobar's information. He said well I worked for him. I said you worked for Byblos now. Dead Bob pub was killed a year or so prior but still. He's got all this relevant information about him. I said would even you work for them. So now they go back to Ron Ron and his prior life and his arrests so after one particular arrest Ron got back down to South America. They got him another plane. He got a big load of cocaine because he had just gotten out of prison he failed finish. That eight or ten year stint didn't cooperate. Didn't plead didn't do anything. Just let them sentenced him. He did his time now. Now he's the most valuable person in the world to the cartel because he has proven himself worthy capable honest trustworthy in their opinion he is perfect and that's is on their side on our side. Let me see criminal criminal. Criminal not is not trustworthy. Yeah okay maybe stupid for risking federal prison constantly. He's he loved it. Yeah maybe like that in there so so to them to the cartel. He's valuable so now he's brought from low level to mid level to higher level to Pablo Escobar so he eventually gets Pablo Escobar and Pablo says. Hey I'm giving you a full plane load you take this there and you know now you work directly for me no more middlemen. You're my guy. So He's at the pinnacle of his business now. Han is at the top of his game and so he flies from from Columbia towards the United States and enroute declined very close to Panamanian airspace and in Panamanian airspace Panamanian Indian authorities intercept him and force him down in Panama and so now he is a plane load of cocaine and he has another guy with them but his buddy that he had flipped end over. End Down the runway anway guys still flying with them just just because he wanted companionship. And have somebody to hang out with Andrea Andrea Man. I would say so so now. He's in Panama now. Who Runs Panama at this time? A man named Manuel Noriega. So Manuel Noriega doesn't put Ron Jackson in a Panamanian prison. He invites Ron Jackson to meet with him in his office. And that's not a cocaine is worth a lot of money. So Manuel Noriega says Ron. WHO's cocaine and Ron says it's Pablo Escobar's and Manuel Noriega says no it's actually mine? And you work for me. And so Manuel Noriega then says here's what you're GONNA do. You'RE GONNA fly that goat gain to my people in the United States and Ron's like okay if I have to. He says yes. You have two because your buddy here is going to stay with me while you're doing that. And so his buddy stayed in. Panama Noriega Five Star resort. All taken care of. It's all good as long as Ron does. What he's supposed to do and comes back with the money? To Manuel Noriega. No I don't think you can enjoy your free lobster and shrimp cocktail tale Knowing that your life depends on the guy who keeps crashing planes and getting caught by other beep Rhode exactly and so run. Flies makes it comes back back. To Manuel Noriega Manuel Noriega. Get some more cocaine. The Philip the plane and flights and ED states after the second trip. Manuel makes the mistake of allowing Rana's buddy to get together and go out to dinner and drinks on their own but he puts. They're playing on lockdown so we got armed guards around their plane so they can't fly out or so he thinks so Ron Jackson and his buddy go out get drunk and then go to the airport and steal a plane so they steal somebody else's guy. Aw and they fly out they get back to the United States and now they gotta go back the Pablo Escobar apologized and explain what happened. He understands they didn't get arrested Noriega he's a businessman and it's in lost a load. He lost one load so it he loses one hundred loads a month like that and another one hundred other ways. But but so ron goes back flying Pablo Escobar so maybe steers clear Panamanian area. No more Panamanian airspace. And he was doing that to avoid going over the Caribbean and having in customs track and because over Central America. There's you know it's a lot harder for American aircraft to go over that airspace. And try and track him so he can stay low. He can stay a high flying the mountains. He did what he had to do. So now I'm in the waiting room or in the visiting room at the Cumberland Federal Penitentiary talking to Ron and I'm flipping through this book and and there are there's just name after name after name. Everybody that's big in the business and the Cali cartel a COUPLA cartels. He knows everybody and I said all right. You can't possibly have worked with all all these people and you should know everybody in. That book is either somebody. I did work with firsthand or approached me to work for them while I was out working or I did prison time with them. And every single person in this book trust me implicitly lateral X and I will obviously Pablo Escobar is not a value to us now but if you were to pick somebody in here and I don't want somebody like Pablo Escobar. Because it'll be impossible to target them right now we would have to start lower. Pick a name and tell me who you would start with him. What you could do so he picks out a couple names Orlando a stupid yawn and me Gail on Hell Janos Peres? Two guys he picks out right away and says these two guys really well connected there. There are moderately high up. They're not at the top level and I think they would trust me immediately. So okay what can we do and he said I can reach chop them when I get out. So when do you get out. And he said well. I got about three months left here than I have six months in a halfway house and I can reach out to him then I said well I can get you out of here tomorrow. He I said no I can happen. I said why and he said because I gotta do every minute of my time. That's why I'm valuable to them. I said okay. Well what are you willing to do whatever you want me to do and I said what if we want to do to fly down there and do a load force and he said well. I don't have a pilot's license anymore. So I doubt the federal government would allow me to fly and I said what if I could get your pilot's license back he said can you. I said why good night you're thinking I'm awake at the academy we can do. All this time we deputized this guy we give them a files operating reading. FBI procedure clearly. So I said there's no reason why we can't try so we'll do that so he said all right with an off see you in Atlanta and about nine months. I said that sounds like a deal so over that nine months I did research on the targets. He gave me a copied his entire book. Rivera fide phone numbers contacts I went to this very secretive entity. That's within the DA basically but it works for the entire federal government. And I can't say who they are where they are. But they're very big into signals intelligence and I provided them with all the data that was in the book and they were able to target guys all over the world and establish a bunch of other cases cases and I said just stay away from these guys right here and their chain of command. That's what we're going after. And they did and so just him. Providing the little black book was incredibly valuable to the federal government to the FBI The da into Oso- have taskforces all over America and south and Central America. But he didn't but he didn't do that to get get himself out of prison early or get any credit. He wanted it all for the young friend who had obviously been sort of mistreated by cartels. And he said I. I don't want this guy's life to end up like my life so if I had been smart when I went to prison the first time I would not be here now sixty one years old getting ready you to get out of prison. When I'm sixty two having ruined my life ruined? My family destroyed countless other lives. I would actually be doing something good with my life and he said so. This kid made a bad turn. He's like twenty twenty one years old and as a right now he'll be forty two or forty three when he gets out of prison and he doesn't deserve serve that he deserved an opportunity for a second chance. I'd like to try and give him that. I said well that's admirable. It's good and I said well. What about your life? What do you mean a so? What if we could turn your life around? He said it's too late for me and I said we talking about your sixty one. He said Yeah. My life can be over soon. I've ruined my life. I can only help other people with the short time I have left and I said what if you don't have a short time left. What if you could really turn your life around? Would you do it. He said I would love to. But I don't think it's possible I said but it is and he said I just don't believe believe it said there's always a possibility for Redemption Ron. Don't give up on that. Let's see we can do redeem. You said well if you could ever actually get me my policies back so I could just fly around the United States just for sightseeing. Just because I love being in the air that would be redemption for me. I said okay. Then that'll be. The first goal might also be a way for him to continue doing what he's been doing the tire career as the most trust were they law biter. But let's just see okay. So what happens is Ron and I meet up in Atlanta Georgia in Probation Parole office down there. I believe it was right after his birthday so sometime in early July nineteen ninety six X and when his parole officers. They said. You can't work with them. Milwaukee will not allowing it and I was arguing. So what do you mean. I can't work with them. They said Nope. This guy's too much of a threat danger he he'll flee whatever we can't trust and I said he did his time. What are you talking about? He did his time he's done. You can't control that. And they said because he did halfway house he did everything he was. He was on full release. He was supposed to be on probation ovation for a month or something. It was really short term because he has served the entire sentence if he had cooperated or going to plead guilty he would have had a longer parole at the end and he didn't. It was very very short and I said I'm sorry but I'm ignoring what you're saying. It's just it's not relevant. He wants to help the government and he wants to do right to make up for what he's done John Wrong. I want him to have that opportunity and he should and my supervisor Kevin Lewis was there with me and Kevin Argue with with them to saying what are you guys talking about. You don't don't believe that he can ever do right because he's done wrong and they said no. We've seen it happen too many times and we believe the temptation of putting back into the drug world is going to be too much for him and that it'll draw him back into it. I said the. Here's the difference. I will be with him. He's not alone doing this stuff. I'll be part of it. I will be doing an undercover with him. He will be my cooperating witness. I'll be on every phone call every meeting. Everything with him just wants to get on drug flight. The goal was to do that to fly some drug serious but I argue you guys you. You don't know what you're talking about. You're thinking that this guy is GonNa get lured back in. I'm telling you I believe this guy wants to change his life after this. This last stint which I think was twelve years the last twenty three years that he did total it changed him and he was like. I really don't do this anymore. And so here we are. FBI Agent Tim Clemente FBI supervisor. Special Agent Kevin Lewis Arguing with the probation and parole officers in Atlanta. And they put their foot down. We are not GonNa let this happen while while we're out of time now but we can't wait. We come back to hear how you and I'm pretty confident. Did you did because I know a little bit. More of the story how you got past their regulations and continued to work with this now released released federal prisoner. I can't wait to hear the rest of the story Tim as usual. You have me on the edge of the seat and I'm really looking forward to hearing how tim that on a plane and crashed. You know that's coming. Let's not all right. We'll we'll thank you for coming and we can't wait to hear the rest of your story and in until next to them. Thank you for listening. The best case. Worst case is an ex g production produced by JIM CLEMENTE NOT A empire studios. La Engineered and edited by Mike Stahl music composed performed by Simba Sumberg and hosted by one. You can listen to best case worst case on your favorite listening APP. We're on spotify stitcher apple podcasts. And wherever wherever you listen to podcasts. If you want to do something about child sexual abuse use darkness delight can help. Did you know that more than ninety percent of the time. Children are sexually abused by someone. They know Jim. This isn't about stranger danger. It's about learning the true risks darkness to light. Training can help prevent recognize and react to child sexual abuse in your community. When you make the decision Susan again involved? Kids can be protected. It starts with you visit. Www Dot D. two l. dot org to take the training raining and learn more. That's Di the number two L. Dot Org.

Ron Ron Ron Jackson FBI Jim Clemente United States Tim Clemente federal government Pablo Escobar Escobar Caribbean DA cocaine Manuel Noriega Pablo Escobar Georgia Atlanta South America Pablo Figueroa
#1083 That's What DJ Khaled Does

The Adam and Dr. Drew Show

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

#1083 That's What DJ Khaled Does

"Thanks for listening to the atom and Dr drew show on podcast. One. Well, every car has a story, of course, but you can't put a price in those stores. With truecar you can find out what your car is actually worth when it's time to sell their trade. It in you just go over to truecar into your license plate number your car's. Details pop up answer some questions. And once you're finished you get a true cash offer sent minutes. You can take that down to the local, truecar certified dealer to cash out, or you can trade. And if you're smart, so use truecar to lock in a price reveal on that truecar certified dealers lot. He knew that price a fair price because they compete for your for your business, and it's a true price. Could it also includes fees, and excess re's? That's right. True cash offer. It's that easy. You can either just drive off with your check or drive off in a car, and that car can be newer used, and you can get it through truecar when you're ready for a better way to sell or trade in your car. Check out truecar through cash offer not available in all areas recorded live at guerrilla one studios with Adam Corolla in board certified physician and addiction medicine special. List, Dr drew Pinski. You're listening to the Ataman Dr drew show gay ground at dictate pet that Bob, my. As is door, treasured bed, and expansion around. Hey, about what's going on? I have loose. Gaskets. Don't. Yeah. Staffer said a long time ago strangely the reflux and all that stuff that so many people. Dairy, calm really like Jimmy's always had the my Lanta and all that kind of stuff and the TOMS and this, and that, but riddle me this Dr drew. Yep. I've never done that antacid or the heartburn or the whatever and I it's so funny because I just watch all those commercials. Or like I love pizza at my acid reflex. Doesn't I love mexica off? Spicy Mexican pizza, greasy doesn't there's no everything's exactly the same. You sure you're actually alive. Ooh for you, who you talking to know. But if you said to me, you can eat the spiciest tied cuisine, or you can have a bowl of plano, meal, a little Honey, in it and all put your head in a paint can shaker, and then an hour from now all ask you what you ate. I wouldn't know when I did that show hot ones where the do the Scoville scale and the have hot sauce. It goes up to I dunno. Two million on the Scoville scale, I think, I think I'm getting this, right? Carol check it. But I mean tobacco. Basco on the Scoville, which is just a BTU. It's British thermal units. But I mean is it's a unit of measurement for hotness and food or saw the Hobo scale. That's it is. It's like that. I, I think Tabasco is like thirty six thirty seven hundred. I did two million and it didn't affect me at all. I've when I was driving home. I didn't know what I'd done like you wouldn't know of my mouth burning about what hands went out roof now difference. Zero sat there a and I don't eat hot food. I'm not I'm not particularly I built up a tolerance. You know, growing up in the Philippines or whatever. I just I don't eat hot food, but a put the two million on the Scoville scale on a wing the wing and I was driving home. The hood of had an ice tea an hour earlier the same difference and on, on the bathroom. Same no different. DJ called- tapped out at he got up to the third one? He started getting swirly like like, like he was gonna someone's going to happen to them, right. Well DJ scare lesson. My favorite. I'll tell you, I, I wanna thank our sponsor on the show, truecar dot com. I love it. When people are on point. You know what I mean? Like really on point. But on brand point like that. Yeah. Like, if I see a fat guy, eating a piece of Hickam, like, but if I see him holding a bucket of chicken or something. Yeah. Yeah. And DJ Calland is you do you. Yeah, he's a talentless blowhard and when he went on the show. He couldn't handle the hot sauce, which is fine. But he's because he's a colossal blowhard. He started turning it on the host. Like, what would you do to mind or ever show you that hair annoyed? It was every panicky he got. No, he, he, he wanted a certain point, the host said you don't trust me. You wanna eat mine, and not yours. And he's like, yeah. Okay. And rates across Mark Ivy Scott to. He's obviously colossally stupid, but. And by the way, you go, how do you know he's he doesn't do anything, and he goes out on stage. But anyway, oh, God, go God. Now we're taping this and advance. But max Pat we got. We got a tape SNL this weekend because he's got to be up there doing a whole lot of point I the co host or whatever he's the musical app, musical act, where you tuned into our culture. I thought maybe finale to the big finale musical act. Whoa atoms. Should be so proud. He's not gonna do anything he's not going to surprise you. He's not gonna sing. He's not gonna play an instrument. It's not gonna do anything he's gonna point at the ceiling, and then pointed people to play their instruments. I have no idea why why people enjoy that. Or here's what I'm saying. Drew. Whether it's Yoko Ono, or DJ Khallid. Why do people not see what I see which is abundantly evident which is they're not doing anything, right? How why is that? I get it when you're. I get it when you're. Many truths can be learned from the Partridge family. Many trees, many truce, Gary. There's an episode. Sorry. Navient? I was looking at talent, but I got it. There's an episode of the Partridge family many years ago. Keith partridge. Yes. Recently departed have Cassidy, Keith Partridge was the love of the beautiful blonde girl, but she couldn't really sing. And Keith was so smitten with their looks that he couldn't really hear her bad voice coming through because I look at her as she seems like an angel, you know, at a certain point it got to the end, and it was like she's gonna have to go up on stage and sing in front of I think there were performing at an army barracks camp. Or something? Yeah. Kind of thing, and it was, like, no, everyone will know she's a horrible singer, but the but the soldiers were cheering so hard when they saw her, and her miniskirt right that around it out singing that I get. You sign off on that one. I understand what's going on. DJ Calland is an unattractive, overweight, man. So now we're left with the talent. See what I'm saying? Yeah. So what is going on now? I have similar thoughts about pit bull. But feel like that guy while doing a lot of pointing at the ceiling does a little more than nothing this so DJ house going to do nothing. And then he's just going to go hammer, another check and move on. And I don't get wire societies wired that way. Did he do something? Gary with this did he do something exceptional as discharge was the quality of his mixing something unusual. This there is. Do is disc jockey. There's nothing except what you ever talking to Stephen. Okay. Right. How he spent years, honing the stuff and but at certain points, Steve Aoki's hits a button and then grabs a giant cream pie and runs to the front of the audience and jumps up down and throws Pyatt people. That's a concert again. Thoroughly confused thoroughly. Look, I like I you can explain terrorism to me, and I will digest it more easily than I will DJ Cal. Is horrific is terrorism makes I can even actually. Yeah, I can go, not for me. But I still kind of understand what the motivation is. I have no idea. Why anyone even knows his name? So in a weird way, DJ Kelly is like a he's, he's a black hole to gravity. The thing that just develops because of the virtue of the exists of Cavite of gravity makes this glac whole thing, develop and he given culture is just anomalous thing that develops. Yeah. I don't get why we're show. Weak feeble minded or something. It feels like it feels like some sort of, of just having being what we are. And occasionally these these wrinkles will happen. I've also I've also the sided that. The most important attribute you could wish your kids to have would be personal momentum. And I know people that are marginally talented with a lot of personal momentum and they're wildly successful. And then there's people that are really talented with not, not good in a personal momentum of our meals. If I have a lot of difficulty is that what you call the engine? No. Now, engine is engine. Yeah. There little bit linked like the you think you're going to do this. So you tend to do it like the engine personal mental are. But, you know, those guys. But now I'm trying to get nail it. I think is it like a sales person that, you know, going to sell you something. And they've got this momentum with it except they're selling themselves. They believe it themselves. They totally believe okay. They're also the kind of people would say. Stuff that would sound credible to you. You'd be sitting around a big table and some of might be pitching like a comedy idea and they just go. That's not funny. And then we do something else, and then someone turned to them, and go, okay, what's your what do you got to go on a have anything? Sit down. Would never be shown barest. Right. They do that. Like routinely don't have a problem. You know, those guys aren't usually success more. Sounds like right. No, raise. Tarazi's. With entitlement entitlement is a little different this. Yeah. This is more. Donald Trump is. You want to hear my opinion and you're gonna love. Yeah. And we love it, and it's the best. And I'm the best. Yeah. So if you wanna be with the best is this one of the liabilities of self esteem. Oh, yeah. This is a little too much parental. Stroking whenever I see this. I always look at the relationship with mom, and the mom is always way over the top to involve start drilling down made this this. It's my I was thinking, when you mentioned I was thinking some people to have that kind of mom. Oh, yeah. Like if you ever had a roommate actually run kindergarten age like VR has. That's when it really goes, you've ever had that roommate with the mom, that was like, oh, you made a solid VM gonna case it and lucite I'll make a paperweight out of it. If you ever had one of those moms if you had one of those as roommates later on. Adult like they will cook beef stroganoff and destroy the kitchen that night and the following day, you say, to them, well, going to have couple people over so be nice if the kitchen was clean, and then they go, yeah. All right. And they watch more TV than some point you go. Well, I guess, I'll just clean the kitchen myself, and I go okay, and they'll just sit there and watch you go, where does this person come from? It's that Ma that's the mom, you didn't have that. Mom, drew. Hi that mom. So it's very counterintuitive but for people who did have that mom, it's like, yeah, why shouldn't you be clean and my dishes? My momma did the name of the episode. It's pretty funny. That's pretty funny Dora Dora Dora. Oh, yes, these guys probably they are deal with. That is hot chick must have been named Dora. Right. So it's like she's a she's barnstorming. Yeah. I'd like to introduce you a very vocal young singer was with us tonight. I hope you'll give a nice warm, welcome to miss Dora Kelly. Institution. This cave mastermind. Cohen for three minutes. TV sleeve here to me. Now you have to. With. Jay leno. Some rape and go on. Fail. The play music guy. Bring on how to be fair, these huge jazz bands. Right. Full orchestras do be exciting when the music would kick in. But that's what the Cala does. I know it's been brought up many times that episode. Yeah, so she couldn't sing, but who care wearing hot pants man? All right. Silcon pants. Ruben can Cade knew it. He was talking about when he booked or Shirley, Partridge, demaim, did not agree, but turned out ribbon was right, right. Cade was mastermind. All right. Where what is a what is Gary? What is Tabasco on the Scoville? Let me make sure I think when I looked it up. I got it here. Still actually, the flagship bread variety measures between twenty five hundred and five thousand he just Tabasco essentially. Yeah. D- did. But my when I said, thirty five thirty seven right, that's right. We're talking about. Okay. All right. Let's talk to Kyle thirty four Tampa Kyle. Hey, what's going on gentleman? It's going on man. Not much. I heard you talking before the show, drew about the errorist cards. Yeah. Yeah. If Gary can look this one up the Queen of hearts is one of the funniest looking mother fuckers in the entire world. The terrorist cards came up on this show. Yes. Some and I was like, I have not heard of it, and it's crazy Jordan harbor on. Yeah. Around there as long as you know that. Well, it's it, it, it struck me as strange that, that something that everybody had heard of. I did not that trouble me. And yes, it's weird. Got checked. But it's not like it's like something I can blame on being sixty. You know what I mean? That was from probably ten years ago, right? Fifteen I, I don't know. But it's in your wheelhouse, two thousand and three. Who here knew the terrorists trading card are terrorists plan, everybody everybody. Yeah. Weird. It bothers me. Good should. Yeah. Now magin working with that. Oh, stop it. How brutal that? Sorry. Cal the Queen of hearts. Yeah. He's a funny looking motherfuckers. I hope it looks like juice Newton. Maybe he looks like he looks like a really fat on new sane. Yeah. See, I've always said, you know what? Gary, here's an interesting piece of homework, the show, spades. But I think this is the gentleman. He's talking about other websites list him as a Queen of hearts, HAMAs Zubeidi. No, it's an interesting thing. I've always laughed about which is like, when you have some brutal dictator everybody in the war cabinet and all the generals and colonels, the have to grow the same mustache that guy grow or the same beard, not Hitler. They're like you're on your own. You're deliver that good luck with that. Like, that's the only it's kind of a weird cultural, then, because it's like you'll see Fidel cash, a lot of guys, they'll have the beard, the mustache. Like required. They didn't go along with Hitler on that once in a blue moon. It's a guy but there's a lot of dudes that have his mustache, right. All have Saddam's. Oh, yeah. All the aces and kings, not one missing. Look. Say what you will about eight off, but let's give the devils do he did not force all ten it's to conform. Faye from facial hair standpoint. Yes. Crazy. All right. Well, make note of that. I wanna see out of those fifty two cards, accommodate had the same mustache that. Dictator's per se in clued, any other sort of cartel leader anything never attractive man ever. Right. I guess so I guess you're right. I mean, never. I mean you can't even think of somebody like marginally tractive. But once you get to that kind of level, it's not like, you know, William bars model are something to that level. Even just by probabilities, there it leads me to be something in that you would think that the looks would be helpful to get that far long in society, and that it would factor in verses will plenty of the lieutenants can be normal canoes, or even attractive dues but top gun never top dog, never I wonder if those guys, I wonder if whatever the chemistry of your brain is or whatever makes that up like if you're getting laid in high school bell, tackling, I just don't think that were I think there's something to that was not thinking about overthrowing. Country, my buddy, buddy, Chris. Yeah. He was too busy getting laid. Right. And then there's like Manuel Noriega like Manuel Noriega, they just called him pineap- face. We got pizza face over here on this side of the cueyer on the other side. It's like pineapple face like he's he was pockmarked man Manuel Noriega that guy had a tough junior year in high school. So for the plane cards like twelve pictures missing just guys didn't have good pictures of there's one chick. And then there are two people two males that don't have mustaches chick, a big mustache or she wearing tight beard how she came in. She's, she's trimming no mustache for her. But then there's only two maybe three guys the pictures little grainy, but max three guys that don't have it. So everyone the more banana, the Republican Moore, the despot dictator the more you have to do the facial hair finding nice pockmark Manuel Noriega, because that guy couldn't have had great teen years. I don't know. Maybe it was captain of the swim team and had all the checks but I don't know don't guys face a little bit rough. They didn't have proactive back then. No not. No not. You don't have to dignify every comment with response. Kyle what was kind of? Breakout us into playing cards. Yeah. Yeah. I had those cards and every single one of them looks like they were just trying to copy Saddam Hussein. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if that's a great. I don't know if that's a great move. Final God can find some older pineapple pictures to. But that guide has a tough teen years. Yeah, he didn't get asked to play spin the bottle, he's angry took over country. That's right. Sorry. Question. Go ahead. Yeah, I have a pain, like right behind my nipple. I can't feel a lump or anything like that. But it's been there for like two weeks. I was wondering if you know anything about that. What that might be any medication. You're taking not at all. And have you has it been irritated by anything rubbing against anything anything of that sort of trauma? Not irradiated, as like it gets when, when I wake up in the middle of the night, 'cause I'll feel like a lay on us, but it's not because I'm rolling on it. You know what I mean? I think you got cut have that look down. I mean men do get breast cancer and pain. It's that kind of thing can be early signed, I it's probably going to be nothing. But I kinda think you ought to look into it a little bit. So it's such an unusual symptom. Get a set of go get him or I or I don't know about that. I just I just get a doctor examine it. I I let me hit truecar sixty seconds. That's how long this commercial last. What else can you do in a minute, get an offer for your car? Go to truecar use your smartphone or computer enter your license plate number watch your car's details. Come popping on up answer, you questions you're getting accurate true cash offer from your local truecar certified deal, then bring your car, and they'll check it out and do it together. Ask questions, get answers no surprises. Then you can leave with a check, or you can drive out of there with a new car or used car and enjoy your new Rhine. So you want to home with the big fat check in your pocket. Go ahead. Or you want to drive home, in a used car previously owned, or you wanna new car when. You ready experience a better way to sell or trade in your car? Check out truecar today. He's your birthday today. Oh, I don't know. Is it? Yeah. Seventh. Yep. Have you there? Thanks, man. Anything any this is not a, a landmark birthday when is stuff coming up. Four years or so I, I don't know. I'm fifty five thirty five today. That's correct. Yeah. I did the math for more years. I don't I don't have a lot of. That I've found that I think it turns out that people around you don't really want to celebrate your birthday. But they my wife, then I was like, whatever you do new part. No big deal. Yeah. Thing. I know it's sponsored by he'll watch. I'll be when you do the same spiel to me. No done and done. Hold on what he making for dinner. That's how we doing, but I like it that way. And I suspect Lynette likes it that way, too. And if you find most people when you tell them luck don't get any gifts and don't do anything they go okay, like, yeah, unless thing the worry about, right? Like if somebody said to me, look, honestly, I don't wanna party. I don't wanna gifts. I wouldn't even think about what go out to dinner on the next Saturday closest here, birth good, but hurt thinking was Ono, people want to show up. They want to be a part of the, the they'll be upset if you don't. Well, that's an interesting thing because I, I never occurred to me. I have gotten the. Yeah. But what about people that want to celebrate here, whatever? And I'm like, I don't know let them open up, canopy, or at home, like feel the same way. But it's interesting drew is people without tons of personal momentum. Or steam are steam, we never look at it through that prism. No, I know I kind of feel bad that I don't. But then I can't, you know, I feel like I should be taking other people's feelings into. Okay. Let me do that for second. Okay. I can't imagine they'd wanted a party about me, so that's impossible. I can't do it. Good or bad. When I get the but imagine that must sound like coming from you, I go, what's that me coming for me? I'm just asking like anybody else. I don't have. Yeah. But you gotta understand coming from you. I'm like, what does that mean for me? It's request one way or the other shouldn't, I didn't wanna factor in who it's coming from. Yeah. Why is that even a thing? I've exact same sensibility exa-, and it's, it's like it's pretty rigid. It's hard to step out of it. Well, just out of it, because you become almost like a species that does something exactly make sense. Accurate feels like it's like I'm stork and you're asking me to run, you know, sprint or something like no astore kind of move slow and stand here. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's weird like you go people get pumped up our wanna know if your pumped up about your birthday and, you know, not not then they go come on. No not. It doesn't, by the way, they're doing the same thing to you that you're doing to them, which is they come from a good mom. And it makes sense to them. And they don't understand your version of life, you know. Right. So there it's actually, whatever it is, you're doing, they're doing as well on a positive side. But it's still there. They're sort of rigid is well, they think how could look like anything else conundrum neurobiology, the they call the feeling of what it's like what is it like to see red but is like to be a bat like to have helps teams like well, we we're in it feels feels like this. Well, I mean, I think it's what it feels like is. You kind of go through life and you go if it's my birthday, it's everyone's birthday, or it's no one's birthday like this kind of the thought it's also. Really? Why should other people be delegate to that to get more than trouble them? Come on. What there's a there's another. I mean so there's, there's kind of two sides of it one is. You have. You don't understand the birthday so donor stand this side. And then there's the other side, which is I go into the edit bay, the other shop and I go, hey, I don't wanna hear anymore, rock and roll generic rock and roll music played over the sound of my Porsche nine thirty five on here that engine saying, and then you leave. And then two days later, you get it, and it's got the music over it. And you're like I understand that party. I'm just saying. That's a little defensive though. It's like I could get angry. But then I get confused. But what I'm saying is either way. I'm just saying that. Yes. It's not. I, I'm saying, I don't wanna birthday party, but I'm saying I don't rock and roll over an engine thing. And, and then there's a lot of, but you have to understand what that must feel like coming for it shouldn't feel like anything, other than I don't wanna rock and roll music, over nine thirty five. Right. Because I would never think if somebody said anything to me, I wouldn't think anything other than that as well. Yeah, if you said. Hey, came home and the lights, Ron house, I wouldn't here. Oh, you're calling me stupid. I just hear the lights are on. Because I that's how I think, but I think there's an element drew of I don't feel that involved in a lot of things that are said to me or that I say, other people obviously, I don't either didn't miss the whole terrorist cards. Well, that's just a feeble. That's not. Well, that's for sure. I knew him very well. But when I'm when I'm saying is if I am, and you tell, no, you're this way, I told you once million years ago. Meanchey me went to the Thriftys or something. Nineteen ninety six and a half or ninety nineteen ninety seven or whatever love line was blowing up on MTV in Bubba blonde rain and some old guy friend of mine from a sketch group contemporary and he's like Adam burn, his name is I said what you have to burns. And then he said, what are you up there? And I said, oh, I'm working doing a show on MTV or something like that. Love line is like, okay, and then me and Jimmy left Jimmy's, like ACA, Ed believe me that guy saw on MTV. He you're on every night. He's twenty eight years old thirty years old. He knows he didn't want give everything's. Yeah. Yeah. Same improv troupe. And now he's not on TV and you are. And I said. Well, really I, I, I've just assume you didn't have cable. I could tell he knew. And I was like. I would never ever think it, I wouldn't think it because he said, what are you up to, and that's now we're done. 'cause total face value, and so that pari, but you had to know what he was feeling or thinking, or when he asked that he meant wine running by the mind, reading is a very treacherous territory of the in. I agree generally mind readings not a good idea. All right. Let's see coming back on Wednesday. So, yes, Gary, not tackle, bell material, my stand of special you guys can enjoy that chassis to us, and y and all the other Amazon nineteen and all that kind of stuff and live shows. Oh, coming up doing unprepared in Denver. Love denver. Denver comedy works south Jan June fourteenth fifteenth live shows ever AMC role that come through what he got go dot com. All the family positive. You know what who's also took the opium series? Awesome audio book. You'll enjoy something next for doctors say. Ooh. Yeah. Checkout, Kerri's podcast, offbeat, Rick Anderson, your Harrison until next role, doctors Mahala. This is Corolla digital. Flirt. Oh, TV, the leading free streaming television service watch over one hundred channels, and thousands of movies on demand, completely free. Pluto. TV never ask for credit card. You don't even need to sign up to watch for free political is easy. It's completely legal and it's the best way to watch your favorite TV shows and hit movies for free in never pay for TV again, by downloading Pluto, TV, not sure what you're waiting for. You can be rolling in a matter of moments. Download Pluto TV for free on all your favorite devices. Do it today, including your phone and Roku. Amazon fire TV apple TV smart, TV's, PlayStations, and anywhere else you stream. And also don't forget about my channel chassis say, S Y chassis channel number five oh, one it is the best it is pollu- TV.

Gary Keith partridge DJ Calland Partridge family Manuel Noriega Dora Kelly Jimmy Saddam Hussein Yoko Ono Denver MTV Kyle Adam Corolla facial hair Dr drew Pinski Scoville reflux Philippines Tabasco
Noise will be noise

Today, Explained

22:42 min | 11 months ago

Noise will be noise

"It was in two thousand fourteen when Carthage TALLEC are. I heard the sound. This low pitched wine e gene. He was living in this neighborhood and Arizona in Chandler Arizona. He'd moved there with his family and used to you decompress after work by taking long walks around the neighborhood at night and it was on one of these nights that he I noticed this low steady wine. Somewhere in the distance sounded like concept White And at first he brushed off. Thought you know maybe someone's pull up but then later night he heard it again and again and again and night after night after night. He was noticing it as he was going outside. Garden Gordon or grill that it was in his backyard and then worst yet he was trying to go to sleep one night when he noticed that there was that noise inside his house that was in his bedroom and it was keeping him up at night. I had a hard time falling asleep and then after falling asleep on three or four. Am It would get very loud. You would pick up. It sounded as he described it later. Like these tons of mosquitoes buzzing in your ear. Only they wouldn't stop them. He tried to move bedrooms. He started sleeping with earplugs when that didn't help you tight a towel around his head and night after night he would try. Try and fall asleep with its earplugs in his head bandaged and the sound just wouldn't stop. It looks like constant video editing and it was very upset. Carthage didn't know at this point where the noise was coming from. And so he's set out to figure out what was causing it and he would go out at night on what he called. These noise patrols I he set out by foot but when that didn't really work. He started to widen his circumference and I started expanding the perimeter driving in my car biking bike to figure out where the noises coming from and he would stop every so often to listen for the noise after eight weeks or so car. Thick finally traced the noise backed. What he thought was the source? It was this gray windowless building with all the charm of a shoebox and it belonged. He discovered to a company called Cyrus. One Cyrus one was a data center basically a column Barium for thousands of servers the servers that were hosting data to make it accessible for processing processing or access from just about anywhere in the world has discovered. The noise was being unfortunately not caused by something temporary. This wasn't just the noise of construction but the noise was the steady hum of chillers. These big essentially air conditioning units that had been installed installed on the buildings and were there in order to keep the servers cool servers sort of like people are most comfortable at around sixty to ninety degrees Fahrenheit and so these chillers ensured that these heat generating servers would stay cool enough as they worked. We hear a lot about storing data in the cloud. It's such a lovely elegant euphemism. This idea of data sort of existing in the ether but in fact it exists in places like Cyrus one in some ways. The sound of Cyrus One's datacenter this low so often the desert. That's the sound of US living a bus clicking of US searching for lyrics online shopping poking people on facebook liking instagram posts. That's our noise too so carthy began to try and take action to silence this noise. He's Carthage actually reached out directly to someone from Cyrus wanting called him very late at night when he was unable to sleep because of the noise. And this other man said that he was trying to sleep and Carthy told him that I am trying to fall asleep to dude. He took this issue to anyone. One he could think of his homeowners association the members of the city council the mayor the police. He sent them an email actually saying do not think I am imagining. Thinks here in Wisden. People's time he added that he'd taken his family with him in one of these noise patrols. I drove my entire family to the same spot and they the two could hear the noise. He was told there was nothing they could do. He was told it wasn't that big of a deal and to him. The noise just got worse. I Cyrus one kept building. They were expanding they added more buildings they bought more land. They added more chillers. There were Nice where at Carthage perfect just couldn't get to sleep whatsoever. He started wearing earplugs sometimes during the day when he drive home. It was always with this sense of dread of returning back. ACT The noise. He thought about installing new windows or planting trees to block the sound but in the end he decided that even though he lose money even though he'd have to move to through smaller house he was just going to have to sell his home. It was around three years after Carthage. Had I heard word That another neighbor of his began to hear this humming coming across the street from her house. Here over half a mile away on on walnut and Bluebird we walk outside our house. There's annoys then. There was another neighbor that noticed that there was this constant constant steady wind like what one person described as sort of like a constantly rubbing engine or the jet getting ready for take-off I would describe it as a blender blender on steroids but at a distant so it's like a just drills in your head almost like a mosquito in the past half years I can honestly say I've not slept a full night's asleep wave comes and goes to me. This sounds like someone is down my street in their car laying on their horn nonstop and finally one of Carthage neighbors who lived nearby but in a slightly different housing development began to post these flyers around the neighborhood asking if anyone else had been bothered authored by the wine. This is the lovely noise and we are right next to Dobson Park. We are in the middle of the neighborhood and you can hear it this morning and it felt strangely relief. I won't say good. I would use the word relieved. I was relieved that others are having the same issue and that we are are going to potentially come together to solution. Eventually with the added force of all these neighbors together they were able to get a sit down meeting through the city with Cyrus one. It's a sound that just won't go away allowed. How consuming a Chandler neighborhood? You can hear the hum of those fans if you're out playing at the park like these kids are tonight. The problem is so can the hundreds of neighbors that live across the the St Cyrus one actually did vowed that they were going to do something about this. They said they would spend around two million dollars to install noise abatement around the chillers essentially to wrap them in these blankets that were designed to muffle some of the sound so there is progress. That's being made on this. Although although there are neighbors that I spoke with who will tell you that. They don't think it's better yet. Cyrus one told the city they address the noise on twenty four of there chillers neighbors say it hasn't changed granted. The company is doing something but of course devilish thing about our noises once you notice Orissa and especially when you're irritated by it. It can be very very hard to unlearn here. There's research that shows that we actually start to listen for the noise. That irritates us that we train ourselves to pick it up even better than we did at the outset so while the low pitched wine plagued the specific specific neighborhood and Chandler Arizona. Noise isn't just a problem. That exists there all of us are affected by it in ways. I think most of us don't realize we're thinking about. I mean knows this violation that we can't control and to which because of our anatomy we cannot close ourselves off and research shows that the world is getting noisier. I think that noise tends to be this issue that we dismiss as this kind of minor issue for cranks go for the idle rich but in fact it's an incredibly widespread problem and one needs to be taken more seriously coming up the dangers and the weaponization of noise. I'm no I'm Hassenfeld. Filling in for Sean Rotherham. This is today explained Maybe you know what you're doing with stocks but I have a feeling that you don't which is why you should probably check out so-fi so fi is basically investing made easy. It's the first investing platform to offer stocks. Automated investing in Crypto. All in one tripped out and with so five bits. You can get a piece of your favorite brands stock with as little as a dollar. Here's how it works. I go to S-o-f-i dot com slash explained and create an account. Then either choose do it yourself or let Sophie's automated investing build you a portfolio again. You get started with as little as one dollar and and listeners. Who Fund their account at S-o-f-i Dot com slash explained will receive twenty five dollars in mystery stock? Just signing up mystery stock. Get your free mystery. Stock at S. O. F. DOT com slash explained so Lennon Corp CFL number six zero five four six one two to extort Ivanka busker the Atlantic. How big of a problem is noise? Exactly do people really care about it. They do and we should all care more about it nor is is a huge issue and really. It's always been an issue. I mean the earliest recorded noise complaint is four thousand years old. ooh It's from the epic of Gilgamesh. One of the gods were so irritated by the racket caused by humans that he he and the Council of God's decided to solve the problem by exterminating mankind. And there are a number of cases even since the beginning of the year here of people shooting each other killing each other in part because of noise and in case there's any doubt as to just how offensive of and harmful noise can be. I think it's worth noting that the US military and law enforcement have actually repeatedly relied on noise as as a weapon. They've used it to try and hurry up getting the dictator. Manuel Noriega to surrender by actually just pounding. His hideout with kiss troops have used it in Iraq I mean blasting the battlefield ahead of time. What kind of stuff guns and roses? ACC and they've used noise in the form of torture technique to the meow. Mix Jingle so we want to ask. That sounds miserable yum yum yum yum yum yum. Yeah like a technical goal definition of noise. What's what's the best way to think about it? There are various definitions of noise but noiselessly different from sound noise already that word word implies sound with the judgment right. Sound that is annoying sounded is disturbing and part of what makes noise such a difficult thing thing to fight is that it is subjective. I spoke with an acoustic expert. Described it to me as sound when you mow your lawn noise as is when your neighbor in those their lawn and music is when your neighbor. Mos- your lawn and I think what's tricky about noise as a kind of faux is that it doesn't leave a trace it vanishes when you go after. It's hard to measure it's hard to describe and again it's subjective. You know your music literally. Sometimes right. If you're living in an apartment with your neighbors blasting music is oftentimes minorities you know one also thing to keep in mind is. That noise isn't necessarily loud. I think a lot of us had this idea via that. Sound has to be at a really high volume to drive US crazy. And if you ever tried to sleep through like a dripping faucet you know that something can be very quiet and still drive you up the wall so it can be annoying for people. I is it actually bad. Is it bad for health or anything like that. Yeah well there's certain short-term effects of noise so in response to noise you know we release stress. Hormones are blood pressure goes up our heart rate rises houses and our body can respond to noise especially in night as low as around thirty three decibels which is around as loud as purring cat. Studies have shown that over long periods of time prolonged exposure to noise can lead to a higher risk of high blood pressure coronary heart disease. Heart Attacks Strokes Diabetes Dementia Depression. It can be very harmful to children. There was a landmark. Study that was done in the seventies that there were two classrooms in in a school in New York one of which was very close to the clatter of a subway track and they found that the reading level of that noisy classroom through was actually around a year behind that of students in a quieter classroom and that difference disappeared once they installed some noise. Abatement meant to reduce the sound. Is it mostly affecting people that live in. Cities is it affecting certain types of populations differently. Noise levels tend to be higher in poorer communities liberty's as well as neighborhoods that have higher populations of black Asian and Latino residents and in fact these researchers thought that their numbers numbers might actually underestimate the difference because people who are wealthier probably take soundproofing measures to even further protect themselves from any noise that may exist. I like you're paying a premium for silence when you pay more for housing or something or even quiet quiet as something. That's only accessible to people who work on lush corporate campuses or have the money to go to spas or silent yoga retreats or you name it to escape again. I think we often think about noise as being the kind of one percent problem. Something that people they complain about the leaf blowers their vacation homes but in fact noise can have an undue burden on people that don't the have the resources to protect themselves from it. There really is a concern. That silence and quiet is becoming a luxury. I imagine there are different laws in different places about this. Is there like a national law against noise. In any way the federal government briefly had an appetite for noise legislation relation in the seventies in nineteen. Seventy two the Nixon administration passed a federal statute designed to quiet the country but in in Nineteen ninety-one just nine years later. The Reagan administration withdrew funding for that. And so since then as one of these experts put it the Federal Government Overman has essentially been out of the noise business and the burden has fallen to local governments to really take charge on quieting their constituents so if the burden is falling to local communities what kind of regulations do they have. How do you even stop things like this? In general local noise codes tend to be either qualitative or quantitative qualitative basically prohibits any sort of noise. That is disturbing or unreasonably loud. But they don't go so far as to to define what constitutes disturbing or unreasonably loud. A quantitative noise code on the other hand will define in quantitative measurable terms terms what is disturbing or unreasonably loud. So New York City for example has a quantitative noise code. There are rules that say that a dog can't bark for more than ten contiguous minutes between seven. AM and ten PM. Believe that's what it says but between ten PM and seven. Am I believe a dog. I can only for five continuous minutes. Seriously that's a real thing. Yeah I mean if a dog is barking for three continuous minutes at two in the morning I think Jack. Luckily it's okay but there are noise. Researchers argue that even with these measurements we may not be measuring noise correctly. AH NOISE CODES TEND to not put as much weight on. Let's say very low frequency noise that can travel very far distances and be it can be felt low frequency noise. That's things like the rattled from sub Woofer or the thudding of a bus outside the things that you may feel right more than you can actually hear them. Yeah I remember when I lived in New York I lived with his restaurant and they would play music pretty late at night and when I went down to ask them to turn it down and it just wasn't that loud down there I mean I could feel it upstairs because of the base but down there it just seemed like it was at a normal volume right but I'm sure you were annoyed by it. I mean not to worry you but it probably wasn't good for you either. So with the Cyrus one example simple you said. They ended up wrapping the chillers to make the noise better. Even if you're not exactly sure if that ended up working but did they have to do that was it. Because of a noise always code violation. I know from speaking with a local police commander in Chandler. That there wasn't really appetite to issue a citation to Cyrus Fun. It wasn't something that at least at the time they fell had violated the noise code when the city issued the permits. They weren't required to consider her the noise footprint of Cyrus one nor did they. I think what was frustrating for the neighbors was that the police would common in sample the sound whereas they were living with it. What can be kind of tolerable during a brief visit? Something very different. When it's inescapable an so cyrus one hasn't to my knowledge technically violated some code or ordinance that the city has put in place and unless they are trying as they put it to be good? Neighbors are taking some efforts to try and quiet themselves. Okay just to be clear. It's really noisy out there. And the regulations that we do have aren't exactly doing too much. Do we just have to get used to a noisy world. I think it's important to appreciate the way that the nature of noises changing. It used to be that a lot of the noise was created by the human hand. You know we were ringing bells. We were driving carriages. We were crying as town. Criers a now when you look at the noise. That's being produced. I think one thing. That's kind of chilling is the way that it's become autonomous. Right machines are inexhaustible source of noise. You know their vocal chords don't tire. They don't need to take a break. They can just keep going and they can be amplified of course people who spend a lot of time in quiet. Talk about really being able to tune into yourself more to not be accosted with a this external activation all the time because we have become so surrounded by noise. I think a lot of us have responded by adding our own noise always to it. You know we insulate ourselves from outside noise by giving ourselves personal. We listen to podcasts. We listen into music and so I think in some ways that may not be helping the problem do want people to listen to the end of this podcast but I also think that in some ways we reacted defensively to noise by adding more noise right and I think it raises the question of if we took out art earphones if we had to listen to the sound of our cities of our environment where we hear bothered by it and if we are bothered by it let's do something about it. I wonder if people haven't turned US off already. Maybe we can use a couple of seconds of quiet gotTA RUIN IT Bianca. busker is a contributing writer for the Atlantic. She also writes books for most recent one is called Cork Dork and and it's all about one. Thanks for connecting us with Carthage Todd. I'm no I'm Hassenfeld filling in for Sean Ramos Forum. This is today explained.

Cyrus Carthage US Arizona Chandler New York Carthy Chandler Arizona Carthage Manuel Noriega Carthage Todd Wisden New York City Dobson Park Sean Rotherham Orissa Sean Ramos
Joan Jett's life in music

Conversations

47:46 min | 1 year ago

Joan Jett's life in music

"This is an ABC podcast. Hello. If you know this piece of music, you will know today's guest. Join jazz was born. Join Marie Lakhan in the suburbs of Philadelphia in nineteen fifty eight. A mother was a secretary her father and insurance salesman. The family moved to LA in the nineteen seventies. And at the age of thirteen join us for her first Qatar. It wasn't long before she was forming her own rock group. An all girl band called the runaways. It was not an easy ride. But today, she's recognized in the rock and Roll Hall of fame and regarded by some as the Queen of rock and roll and by others as the godmother of punk and just some of the language in this conversation might get a bit rock n roll. Jon jet. Welcome. Thank you very much. Was there? A lot of music in your home growing up. Yes. Yes. There was my parents, listen to a variety of music, mostly things like Johnny Mathis. Frank sinatra. My father was a lot of classical music. So that's kind of what our houses filled with your one of three kids were you the ring later. Yeah, I'm the oldest. So what did that involve bantering later? Well, we didn't get up too much trouble. And you know, so I don't know. I didn't really think of myself as ringleader. You got your first guitar at thirteen. Do you? Remember why? Yeah. I wanted to make the sounds. I was hearing on the radio songs like all right now, the free or Bengal. But he wreck stuff like that. And do you. Remember the conversation. You had with your parents asking for that. I don't think it was gonna say shit. I said I wanna get tore an electric guitar made. Sure to throw in the word electric for Christmas. And the God from me your parents sound like they were pretty cool with the whole idea. Do you remember their reaction? I think they thought it was probably just a phase. So they were gonna humor me and get me Monday. Tar, and you know, I'm sure it was not in their minds at all that I wanted to form a band. I wanted to go off and on the. Road. But once we to California, my parents separated, and I think maybe if my dad had been around in the house would have been tougher getting out, but my mother was very supportive, and she drove me hersal 's and was. Very very spoil of me playing in a band and doing what I was doing said, they would have had no idea where this might lead. Did you at that early stage have some concept of that? I had a concept sort of that I wanted to play music, and I don't think that at that age of, you know, everything was so impulsive in just, you know, the teenage energy that you have you don't really necessarily think things through. You know? I mean, I didn't not with a big plan or anything. It was just a dream. You know, I liked acting. I was in drama class in school. And so was wanted to be an actor as well. And I just happened. It was the timing. The luck of the draw just the way it happened that you know, gothic ITAR and the my family happening away. And then I figured now, you know, there's gotta be other girls in the city like while Sange loose that other girls that play instruments in would be interested in forming an band tell me about the first Qatar lesson. I went to take a guitar less in. I mean, you know, when I reflect I understand now a little bit of where the guy was coming from. But I went in and said teach out of play welcome old blow off in wall. And not, you know. Realizing but not really realizing that you have to learn the basics first. But I assumed that's the guy would teach me the basics. So then I'd be Iraq law, but he said to me girls, don't play rock and roll and proceeded to teach me on top of old smoky. My parents brought me up to be polite. So I didn't storm out or anything. I just sat said thank you and one home and bought one of those learn how to play guitar by yourself pokes that show you the thing positions to play bar, chords and stuff. So I I kind of listen to my records and taught myself how to play for cords, but I didn't really get into it until I moved to California. Then I realized this is actually something I could make happen. I practiced more than what was it like moving to LA at that time in your life. Well, I just remember it being very. Citing, you know, it was a place. People went to become stars. You know? So I was just excited to be. It's hard to explain because I didn't have any kind of formula to plan. It was just better weather than the east coast. We had a lot of family in California. So it was just to me a comfortable place to be and then I had a chance to sort of access my dreams. There was a club there in LA that everyone wanted to go to at the time. What was that? Well, I'm not so sure that everybody wanted to go, but it was a very niche club that was called Rodney being an English disco. And it was a club for teenagers. If you were like over twenty one you were too old. They didn't serve booze. It was just the disco. Roddy was a DJ need play all the British singles that American kids never heard like volume blurts by the sweet lettuce is. You Quan tro Slade obviously Bowie. Iggy. You know, just a lot records that T-rex just a lot of bands that American kids never heard and the club sort of gave voice to the kids that dressed differently. You know, it was the first time I experienced sort of an Android GIS. Lifestyle were the boys were platforms and make up to. And I found that very liberating to degree that that people could feel free like that. And and it was only in the certain place doubt that that was happening when I was at school. I was the only kid like that. And. I guess you call bullying, but not the sort where they beat you up. Just get people howling at me saying oh diamond dogs and stuff like that trying to make me feel bad about the greater things something, I don't know. But it didn't intimate Mary at all. And I just said you watch I'm gonna forma band where did you get that sense of self confidence from in those early? How do you have that? Oh boy. Yeah. I guess I do ever degree of confidence. But I'm very shy. So I don't know how the two go hand in hand. I just knew what I wanted to do. And I wanted to try this, and I did not want to be told girls can't play rock and mall because it did make incense. It wasn't logical. I knew girls could master the instruments. I was in school with girls playing violin and show. Playing Beethoven and Bach. So what people were saying when they're saying girls can't play rock moles. You're not allowed to in American society. You're not allowed because rock-n-roll bites nature's sexual. It's mysterious is it's base and girls weren't allowed to be sexual in bays and specially teenagers. So people were very uncomfortable with that notion, and it wasn't even really obvious to me a was to agree. But it was just a subliminal thing until we started getting asked questions about sex. And then I knew if I answer this question all our musical ever be is about sex low. Never ask us one musical question. All be about that. And they try it anyway to sort of steer it in that direction and. We were very serious about what we wanted to do. But I also felt that what was as I was saying that girls were sort of taught, you know, not really talk about that stuff. Maybe they're friends, but not really beyond that. And so, you know, teenage girls are expected it shut a per- a certain part of themselves down. And you know, that's just not healthy first of all. And it's not my fault. If you guys were uncomfortable with of talking about sex, and I mean, sorry, it's it's happening. Whether you know it or not whether you wanna know it or not, so you know, now it's easy for me to look back. And actually put words to it at the time. It was just more. I wasn't really thinking about it was just doing it. As an adolescent, we've hormones pulsing three body. You find yourself in this club with is very different looking people. And as you say the music did something to you. And it was the sexuality to it. You remember the feeling? Well. Of which Phelan I mean. Records you talking about playing tour. I think the combination of being surrounded by these other people that you identified with being in a space that seemed safe and hearing this music and feeling liberated by remember what it did to you. Not exactly in. It just made me feel good. I mean, I enjoyed hanging out with my friends and dancing. I know you saw cabaret around this. What were your impressions? Well, I love everything about it. The music was amazing. The Campinas of it. And also, I guess sort of. Cabaret I experienced that before I moved to Los Angeles. So this was pre playing music or anything, and that was probably my first little mind opening to sort of. Coincided with with what the Rodney's experienced would would be cabaret was can't be. It was edgy. It's sort of, you know, Joe gray, the MC makeup on it was just sort of pushing the envelope. And when I got to California, I found that same energy Rodney's, and it so it was sort of extension of cabaret and sort of cabaret coming to life. I guess. How do you? I come up with the idea for the runaways. I just wanted to play with all girls just thought it would be really exciting and then done teenage girls playing rock and roll. And thought would be, you know, people would love it people would you know, freak out and love it. And I was really. So he did have a concept though of how different these actually. Yes. Yes. I did. And who did you find to being the band with you? The first person I met was girl named sandy west. And she was the drama of the runaways I met her. Through Confalonieri who was became the runways manager and producer. We both ran into him separately couple days apart. I met him. I on the phone, and he had heard that I I was a guitar player and wanted to form an all band. And so he was asking me. Showbiz questions. Like do. You have a demo tape -joyed songs. And I was a mean so naive so green. I didn't know what a demo tape was. I I didn't know where you talking about. And I hung up after like twenty minutes figuring. Well, I blew that. Forget it. You know, it's over a couple nights later, sandy west was in Hollywood hanging out and actually recognized him fell in went up to him and said, I play drums, I wanna form an all girl, band and. So on and so forth and Kim said that he had just met a girl played guitar, and she should give me a call and gave Santa my number. She called me. I took a bunch of buses to her house. We set up together started playing together, and we just hit it off right away. I mean, just personally and musically just really Hughes of very heavy drama really into the same things. I was about the girls could play Robin mall. She had been in bands in high school. She was your young the mayor about six months, maybe and she'd only been in three or four bands with with guys. So she was much more experience than me and. So she knew she could do it. And we set up played some basic rock and roll stuff together, and then call up valley and put the phone down said listen to this played some stuff. And he said sounds great. Let's go try to find some other girls. And we looked around, you know, various places, I believe sandy. Not sure about this may have run into leader. And that's how we came. Came to meet LEED afford. The can't was runways league to our player Kim fell. And I were hanging out at the club that Rodney's had now closed down. And there was another disco. That was playing. The glitter stuff. Rodney had a guest DJ a slot at this club. And so I think one night a week would be glitter night and the kids who show up, you know. And so Kim, and I would go on those nights in sort of hang out. And one night. We saw Sherie Corey hanging out there and with your twin sister. And you know, she was very striking walking. We asked her if she could sing. And she said, yes. So we said, okay. You want want to audition sing, wait for an autumn aband-? And she said, yeah, why wouldn't you the lead singer? We'd already gone through before we met. Sure. Gone to an incarnation as a three piece. With the bass player named NICKY. Steele was then went on to become a member of the bangles and the Abang call the Bengals which is an all female band in America that had several hits. I don't know if people know them here, but so. We did have an incarnation as three piece, and I just was just way too shy at the time to even consider singing lead. That was just, you know, not I wasn't ready at all. Where was the runaways? I. I believe it was a house party some place in somebody's house. I could be wrong about that. Cherry Bohm was one of the first songs you what was it about? Us teenage girls. The lyrics are pretty assertive. I guess when I read them. Now, do you remember what you felt what you were trying to say when you write it look out what we're saying, you know, sort of? Have threateningly but have lookout in a good way. You know, look out. We're gonna rip it up and. You're not gonna know what hit you. But we are also accessing that port of teenage girls who aren't was not allowed to be. Scene. You know, sexuality, the I'm owning this. Attitude. I mean, the cores know Hello darriel, mama Muturi bomb. Hello world. Meanwhile, you cherry bomb. So I mean, really to each person music is subjective and different people. Take different things. Some people take. Maybe a wild wilder version of what that means what we really intended. But it was you know, really just. Trying to tell people who we are. We weren't being anything above and beyond. We were just real. Let's hear this Cherry Bowl from nineteen seventy six. Join you what was different about girls playing rock and roll compared with the guys at that point in time. Nothing except the girls. I mean, I didn't want to be known as girl the plays guitar. I wanna be a guitar player that just happened to be girl. And I think we all felt like that you can still find runaways shows online on YouTube, and we're always criticized for being shitty on why don't know if you can say that here life. We were you know, considered not to be a good band. And I take great issue with that. I say you go listen to any gig. I mean, of course, ban all bands of off nights. But non nine percent of time. We're rock solid. And you know, so we just wanted to be looked at as regular band. But also knowing that this was very different than just being a regular band because. We were girls, and we're saying the same things that guys were saying, but from a different perspective in the sense that we were owning it, and that was a lot different than all the other music was hey on this and this wrong going to do to you baby. And we were saying, hey, I'm thinking shawl. This is what we're going to do to you. And that was really different. What was the reaction to you as a group? Some people liked it. And some people didn't you know, we in America, we tended to get a lot of criticism. And I shut people down really fast when they started to go on about sexuality. I just didn't have time for it. Listen to the music listener words, watch the band. New get all the answers, you need to know from that. You know, it was just like I really got annoyed with being people being titillated. Were you ever scared by what was coming? Not really, no, no. But you know, later in life things a little bit more threatening. You know, I got hit with bottles with Mel batteries. You know, I've got my ribs broken. I got my head split open from getting hit with stuff. I got spit on. And I don't mean just. Spit on a little bit. I'm talking about guys. Standing on the stage working up luby's and showering me from head to toe in really disgusting. Hanging spit. Trying to get me to go leave the stage, and I wouldn't leave and. I think it was confounding to them. But I just couldn't couldn't couldn't leave the stage. I now say it, but I go leave sage after the show and cry. I didn't understand it. I didn't understanding people being so hateful because grow on split walk mall. Didn't make sense. Why do you think I felt sorry offended or threatened by you being made during the all the spitting thing? Now, I understand, but the bottle throwing and the the Barry throwing that was you know, specifically to hurt me. But many years later, I discovered the reason I was spit on. And this was in Europe and Spain and we were doing a tour with a band called the scorpions. No, they are. Yeah. There. Another band has Manitou. So we're on the road with them, and we were going to Spain. And we had two shows in one city, and there was a band that was on the Spanish Bill called Rosen Negra opening the show with the female lead singer. Now, we did the first show. It was great. And the next day. There was a car show in town the scorpions wanted to go to and, but they couldn't go for some reason unless they cancelled the first band saying the reason why they blew them off was because Joan Jett did not want another lead female lead singer on stage. But the real reason is because they want to go to a car show. So the audience thought, I dissed a Spanish band with a female lead singer. And that was so not. Me. I was fine. Diplo's another girl had nothing to do with it for been holding a grudge and then took it out on new by spitting. Yes. And but but many now, they know different. You said you Mumbai tickly being really supportive of you getting into music. I'm curious to know what she thought about the abuse came your way, she didn't know that. You know, there was no internet, then there was nothing unless you told them, I was not going to tell my mother that I was being insulted, or, you know, getting things thrown at me, you know, just. Wasn't important for her to her to know that when you with the runaways you went onto to Japan. What was that? Like completely different reaction. It was it was beat Alaska's all I can say these girls looked at us as heroes, and it was mostly girl fans screaming teenage girls, and it was such a unique experience from what we had before because it was mostly guys in the audiences. At least what we could say we might be a lot of money. I wasn't really concerned about the money. I should have been. But I just wasn't thinking about it. Gaza broadcast and online you'll listening to conversations with high mish with. On ABC radio. Join in one thousand nine hundred one you've now formed with the Blackhawks there's a concert at the palladium in New York. It's described by some as a career defining performance for you. Do you remember much from that particular? I know it's been filmed believe I remember playing it because it was important gig. But I can't tell you that. I remember it viscerally. Just no, yes. It was important for us. It was a big frost. It was one of our first big shows in New York. Why was it? So important. It was probably the biggest venue would played to that time. We are lot of. Maybe a few radio stations in the audience. I don't know. It was just. City man, you're playing a big show and. Of to that point. You know, this is probably a big show. Had you changed or had the world changed in his view of you at this point because he'd had all those negative reactions. Suddenly you being celebrated. Still limited. It was still limited pretty limited celebrated year to a degree. But only by by our fans, you know, it wasn't. It wasn't widespread. Informing this particular bad. What was the advertisement that you put in the newspaper when I lived in LA before we moved to New York. I put in an ad in the LA weekly. I already met my producing partner in songwriting partner by then Kenny Laguna, so we decided to put an ad in the weekly, which was a local music magazine. And put in Joan Jett looking for three good men. And so on put why three men had to be different than the runaways. You know, because it would comparisons would never end. And I love the runways too much to. To sort of try to again, you know, did that there was no coming close to that. So, you know, it's just like leave it be was there. A sense of feeling emotionally spent without chapter not at all not at all just. Having respect for what I already done. Tell me about this. I love rock and roll. When was the first time you heard it? I saw it on TV in England in London. Probably top of the pops for one of those shows. Van they were playing their be side of of their single. So I love rock and roll wasn't even the hit. It was the b side and present I thought it sound like a head to me. So I went out to the local record store and bought the single with the b side Oliver often role and thought the runaways would would want to do it or we should do it. And. But we didn't we didn't wind up doing it. We had recorded a song by Lou Reed called rock and roll on our first album, and I think. Maybe similar roles didn't wanna do another song with rock and roll title. Maybe it was that. I don't know. Maybe it was something else. But we didn't wind up doing it. And I just held on the songs I thought it was special. What is it that you think you brought this particular soul? Exuberance, you know, the belief in the mall. The fact that I did love it. What I was singing was real. Watching the film clip so sexually powerful you're in red leda. You're clearly aggressive. You're saying this seventeen year old is going to be yours at the time. That was quite something wasn't it. Yeah. It was a new guys got to see the red jumpsuit more. It's supposed to see. Because. The actual video with put out was the bl was in black and white that was the video I suppose, it is more question about the impact of what you are doing. And how you peed at the time. I mean, we're talking about the I think the sexually charged Nitra of it was pretty powerful we kind of a wear of that at the moment. Yes. I was in. We were all about in the runaways owning it, and it continued, you know, I wanted to sing songs from my perspective. And this song I thought was powerful. Let's here. This is a lavar enroll. About seven. Belong. Wouldn't be long. Do you feel differently about it? When you watch those film clips back today, if you ever do leaning like if you say the clip that we were just talking about do you think differently about it now too? Because at the time you weren't thinking about the sexually charged night jet necessarily of the image. No, I don't think that that way. Really? I mean, you know, I guess the only time I would think of it that way is because of all the stuff that's going on past year or so at least in the states with the me too Zang. So I don't know if people were expecting me to modify the lyrics. But I haven't and I'm not quite sure if that surprising or not, and that's the only time that I think anything about it. How do you observe this whole may to moment in the United States? The impact that is having on the way women perceived women are treated. Oh, you know, it's very complicated. Because I mean, it's I totally hear what all women are saying. I mean, it's true. I mean, there is a lot of lot of has been, you know, a lot of abuse throughout show business for years and stuff. The fact that people feel brave enough to speak about it. Now, I think is important. But also, you know, it's almost sort of. Extremes were it's gonna take wile for people. Come back to sort of the balanced perspective on it if that ever happens because a lot of people seem to fear in the state's men anyway that they can't say anything. Two women now without being considered too aggressive. And you know, I guess it depends on who you're talking to how they're gonna feel about it. You know? These feelings very complicated, and you know, have to deal with people's mental stability and health and sexual health. And it's it's really important and it's hard to discuss. In small bits. You know, it's something that needs to be ongoing. And you know, I think you know, we're in the middle of it. Now, we'll see where it takes us. But. For me. I just proceed as always I try to treat everybody with respect. But. That's not gonna change where where I'm coming from war diminish. Any of the? Sexuality in music, and I don't just mean in the lyrics. I mean, just the nature of the sound to me is sexual. There's nothing you can do about that. You can't write that out. Can't change lyrics to that. Now, you are the first major English-language Artis to perform in Panama. It was under the regime of Manuel Noriega, what was that? Like. You know, it's hard hard to remember. I remember the crowding pretty crazy and. Very into it. I got a chance to actually open the Panama Canal. They let me put my hands on the levers and actually open the docs or the dams that I'm not quite sure of the technical language, but I opened the Panama Canal. And I one point. Noriega actually sent for me. And he wanted to meet me in person and sending a plane, which was pretty scary in a way. What did you think might happen? I didn't think anything I hadn't gone that for you. You know in my head. I think it was just a shock in general too. Think about that. And you know, now if I thought about it now, I'd know to be scared. But I didn't know then, you know, an I have Sumed that anything bad would happen. How did you get out of it? Something came up Noriega got into some some issue and that had to be dealt with. I guess as president of whatever he was he had to deal with it. And so I guess knitting rockstar fil off the list of important things to do for him. So I just got out of it. By the luck of the gods. Yes, I interviewed you recently for television program in front of a live TV audience. You did tell me I've never seen before you stayed back off the woods, and you individually hugged every member of the audience. Yes. But never seen anything like that. Why did you do? Because. The you know music means much to people really does. And you see. Not on certainly not just speaking about my music, but. All music, whatever it is. You're into it is medicine for the soul. It gets people through. The most difficult times of their lives things that I can't imagine it also with them in the best times of their lives is it is magic. It is transformational. And you know, I feel blessed to be sort of a conduit. That that goes through. So you know of always try to remember. You are not that. You know, you are the conduit. You are not. I can't explain what I mean. It's just. You know, like I said each person has their own relationship to it. And my fans. Been really great. And I just feel just a. A real connection to them. Just because. Were relating to many of the same impulses, the emotions the things we've been through. It can be similar even though it's different. A so young women in tease in front of you sighing that if it weren't for you. I wouldn't still be here. You had meant so much to them. When I coming out, for example. How does it feel to you? When you he people say that too. It's very humbling. It's certainly not anything that gives you sort of ego boost. So we're not for me. It's not like oh feel like a responsibility. The only responsibility is to be there. To be there and into. Be genuine. I think and that's what I try to be. And I think it it. What that what what you saw what we experienced together with the audience was genuine. I mean that doesn't happen every time, but I like to. Hug people. In general. I think it's important through on of hugs in the world. People need to be more caring teach other especially in these days. You know? It's tough world out there. And you're good. Thank you. You turned sixty last year thing what does the sixty year old rocker, do this type, sit home or the cats? That's what I do. And I'm serious. You know, what I'm off the last thing. I want to do is go out. You know, it's I've gotten that out of me that fear of missing out. What am I missing? You know, there's always a club to go to there's always people. That's gone on. And there's a lot of mental anguish in that. So you know, I enjoy sort of. The feeling of. Caring about what you care about. But not really caring about the other stuff. The unimportant stuff that you did care about before. When you look back on your career. Do you have any regrets? Yes. I. That I wasn't present enough. While things were happening for some things. I was but you know, all of it. It's. Such blessed. Life even though it's been tough. But it's been blessed. You know, really be fully present in everything that happened early club days from all the different people that have met the different experiences to just be more fully in it at the moment. That's what I would have liked done because you know, now when you reach back sometimes that's hard to do because you want focusing. So it's hard to focus on something that children focus on. It's hard to recall something that you weren't fully present in the moment. And maybe looking onto the next whatever how important was it for you think on this long trajectory to have something to fought against have valuable was that in retrospect. It's very valuable. And I think it's still there. I mean, there's always something to fight against in the sense. I don't really believe we've come that for in forty years since the runways. I mean girls, you know, women are still not in the position. Of equality. I guess they we were looking for. And I believe until winning are. Actually making the decisions about where the money goes. In those boardrooms things won't be equal until then because for whatever reason that is important, you know, the money until women are making those decisions, I think everything else will follow that doesn't mean that money in itself is important and makes things more comfortable, of course. But the goal is not the money. What I'm saying? Is that food money is power and for women to achieve more power. They have to be dictating where that money goes. And we're getting there slowly. But you know, I think of two now it's sort of been hustle. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You guys are equal. But not really, you know, there's still all those under. Currence of. Various inequalities. I can't even put my finger on it. When I see it in two thousand fifteen you were inducted into the rock and Roll Hall of fame big moment fee as you stood on the stage. Who did you look out and see giving you a standing ovation? I people I saw was Paul McCartney and Ringo stone stand up and Yoko Ono's with them. But they started. They started the standing ovation. So. The whole place up. And there were a lot of people there. I can't recall, exactly. But seeing it's started by those people and thinking back to being in my bedroom with a copy of. Let it be album. Just just so surreal to think. You know that? Things could happen. You know, one day in my bedroom listened to Paul McCartney and the next minute. He's starting standing ovation getting me into the hall of fame. It's surreal, and you just can't really explain how that feels. But I definitely did cry. I didn't didn't want to. But you know, I we. Got a motion time flies when you're having fun. Yeah. It does georgette. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. This conversation will be available as a podcast on our website shortly b c dot net dot I used slash conversations. Or you can also find it on the listen up over ever you. Get your podcasts from Donald thanks for listening. You've been listening to a podcast of conversations. For more conversations interviews, please go to the website, ABC dot net dot AU slash conversations. Discover more great ABC podcasts. Live radio and exclusives. On the ABC. Listen up.

Los Angeles Rodney California ABC sandy west ABC Us Spain Joan Jett Manuel Noriega Kim America Johnny Mathis Frank sinatra Paul McCartney New York Qatar
Why Is Musical Quality Important in Worship Services? (Podcast)

Next Level Worship Podcast

11:48 min | 2 years ago

Why Is Musical Quality Important in Worship Services? (Podcast)

"Hello everyone welcome to the worship. QNA podcast. I'm doing more. We try to answer questions is that worship leaders are asking. Today we have a very special guest with US Tony Guerrero. In fact we're GONNA take snippet from an interview that I did with Tony On our coaching. Call this past week with our coaching. Students Worship Leader Coaching Program. He's going to be challenging us. An answering the question of why is excellence. Important in our worship services gonNA love what he has to say. I believe Tony knows what he's talking about. Tony was the music director at Saddleback Church in California for over eleven years. Tony knows his stuff he plays with the likes of Dick Van Dyke and John John Tash actress Jane Lynch. She's arranged for many well known artists. He's been on billboard's top ten with his music he's even performed at the grammys. Amy's so Tony Guerrero is a great guy to listen to and get to know and we are very excited that he join us for our coaching network session this past week. And we're going to run just a little bit of that conversation to you today before we do though. I want to encourage you to consider our coaching program. We're going to begin a new phase coaching in September. So you don't want to miss what we call the legacy phase of coaching. It will be ten weeks Meeting together learning how to grow our group but also develop those outside our group and prepare them to be in our group in the future is really developing the soil building into the soil around the plant if you will preparing for a great harvest in the future for our worship ministry as well as the church more importantly the Kingdom of God. I hope you can join us for that It sounds real big picture but I promise you it's very practical. We will again. How guests in like we have for this phase so please join us for that you go to our website? Next level worship DOT com. Click on the training tab and you can learn more about our coaching program. And also you don't WanNa Miss Our Worship Leader Intensive in Louisville Kentucky this coming October two thousand eighteen. You definitely definitely don't want to miss that. Nominal opportunity for five days of personal customized coaching and evaluation and encouragement arrangement and direction. You'RE GONNA get all of that plus so much more if you will sign up and be a part of our leader intensive so hope you can come to be a part of that again. Go to our website. Next level worship DOT COM and Click on the training tab and you will see more information you can find out about the intensive. Well let's get onto onto that session just this past week with Tony as he now answers the question for us. Why is quality important in our worship services? Each week you had asked if quality is important and I have a lot. I think the Bible has a lot to say about that. One of my favorite verses on the subject is First Corinthians fourteen seven where it says even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds such as the pie for the harp. How will anyone one know what toon is being played unless there's a distinction in the notes again? If the trumpet does not sound a clear call who will get ready for battle so I think there is a a huge responsibility on us as musicians that we need to sound clear call and I. I know for a fact this coming Sunday. A large number of churches are not going to be sounding very clear call musically and there'll be people in that congregation desperately need to be in church and need to hear that message who heard better music at the bar last night. You don't want the music to be in a bad enough that it's distracting from the message. That's I think that's really obvious. Obviously Veasley for me. It's not about everybody needs to be as good of a guitar player. Say Fill Kagan or as good of a drummer as how you name who it is but that we each individually have a responsibility to be our best and challenges every week when you show up to church. Are you able to say that. Not only only this Sunday. Am I giving my best God. But during the week in the preparation and in the Improving of my skill. Did I give my best to God. And I think that's again where a lot of us if we really honestly look ourselves myself included. That's not something I can answer. Yes to every week and that's where a lot of that definition comes uh-huh for me. It's not the God expects you to be the best guitar player. He expects you to be Your Best Guitar Player for where you are at your life in that moment with all the opportunity opportunity he has given you the time. You've had All of that that you're that you have used that to improve that skill. Here's the here's the great and a horrible thing about playing an instrument and that is that you will never ever master your instrument. None of us ever will Yoyo. Ma Has not mastered the show and so for as long as we live until our very last breath. There is always room for improvement on our instrument. Our voice whatever it. It is always room for improvement so I always challenged people especially those who are on staff are in leadership to ask yourself this question and ask it often am. Am I better now as a musician than I was when I took the job when you start really looking at that question and here's another way to ask that too. Will the people on my team would would they answer that. I'm a better musician now. Even if I'm the best musician on my team would they have seen a marked improvement in me. From the time they met me till now all in in terms of my skill my musical ability. My style's whatever. It is reading music so I feel that all of us who are in Music Ministry in leadership especially we have a responsibility to continually learn and grow and improve on our instruments we should be setting the example and setting the pace for continuing to take private lessons continuing to learn new harmony. Things New music theory whatever it is to continue to grow like who who who wants to sit under a pastor who stopped growing twenty years ago when he left seminary. None of us want that it should. It's the same with us as musicians. We have a huge responsibility ability to continue to grow on our instruments. And if you're in leadership you'd better be setting the bar high for the rest of your team 'cause that's the example that they have to look at and that one of the things I like about that verse talks about a clear battle. Cry From the trumpet. Is I love the story about Jericho and the and the priests this market marching around Jericho. I actually talked about that a lot in different classes. And it's a long story I like to talk about in a nutshell. The fact that the priests with the trumpets were in in front of the the army and they were the ones they were the only ones allowed to make a sound like what what an awesome role we have as musicians that we're the ones that are sounding ending the battle cry for this spiritual war and that's what that verse is talking about when it's talking about the warfare. That's that's US okay. I'm going to backtrack and I'm going to tell a little bit of the story. I like to tell oh so In this country Panama United States was trying to overtake Manuel Noriega this general dictator from there and he holed himself up the Vatican embassy and so we couldn't just go in and take him although we had all the firepower all the all the personnel to do that so we camped around around what he did is. They camped around the Vatican and surrounded it and they put loudspeakers on top of the tanks and the Humvees and just started blasting rock music towards the Vatican embassy incessantly nonstop rocking the cavs. Bottom what music. They are playing but just loud rock and roll twenty four hours a day constantly and part part of that was to jam the The communications but can you imagine. Being Noriega no inside the Vatican The embassy knowing that this army me is around surrounding you. And you're not gonna you can't sneak out but not only that they're taunting you with this music. Can you imagine hour after hour how it must have rattled your nerves. I well when I look at that story of Jericho. How Jericho where he was told? Don't go in. Yeah I'm going to give you the city but don't go into the city. Don't just go take it. You're going to camp out for seven days and you're going to march around with all the only sound. I want to hear his those trumpets blowing. Can you imagine being in the walls of Jericho of knowing you're surrounded by an army and all you hear. Is this these vultures of trumpets circling. You like how it must have rattled the nerves of the people in Jericho and when I apply that to that verse about US Getting Ready for warfare and getting ready for battle when we do that when we sound when we you make a sound on our instrument and the name of the Lord we're rattling the nerves of the enemy. What an incredible responsibility has been given to us when we're thinking like like? Oh we're just playing this happy little tune we're actually. We have the power to rattle the nerves of the enemy and let him know. This city is ours. We get to take this. God's odds going to win this and this this is the battlecry for that so that's who we are as musicians and if we're not taking that responsibility seriously like you think doc. Those trumpet players marched around Jericho had never picked up a horn. Or haven't been third for that We have a I think that this whole conversation for me starts with recognizing nizing the role we have as musicians and not subjugating just to some side thing that adds sparkle to a worship service or to a church morning service or or or just welcomes people in just is something for them to finish their coffee to what we do is incredibly meaningful in the kingdom. God makes that very clear here in scripture in how he uses music and so we have to embrace that when we start to embrace that it becomes a little less easy for us to just show show up Sunday without having touched our horn a week. You know I do like to set the table with that because that for me. If I'm working with the worship team I want that got to be the starting point like none of this matters. If you don't recognize who you are right now in the kingdom I have mostly harsh words for leaders because I feel like we we. We often let ourselves go unchallenged. And I think a lot of the issues of the problems that worship teams face stem from leadership. So I I love addressing you leaders because I think that's where the change and so when you say to go in and part that role or that type that type of spiritual significance that is our job as leaders is a we we need to impart that onto our teams. We need to set the bar for improving on our instruments. We need to be the ones showing up on time. We need need to be the ones who are organized. We need to be that you know the top of the Mar on all of these areas if we are leadership and that's where I would challenge any leader. It's it's like those you've got to be questioning yourself on all of these things constantly. Well that was a powerful Clarion call from Tony Guerrero to us us as worship leaders. Those of us who lead others in worship each week we will have Tony back again next week in our podcast to challenge us again as leaders of worship chip. Thank you for joining us today for the worship and a podcast. If you want us to answer a question that you have please submit your question at office at next level level worship DOT com. Have a great week thanks.

Tony Guerrero Jericho army Jericho Manuel Noriega Saddleback Church US Vatican embassy Louisville director Music Ministry Kentucky California Dick Van Dyke Kagan Veasley Bible cavs Amy
Sonic Weapons | 169

Hysteria 51

45:35 min | 9 months ago

Sonic Weapons | 169

"The shape I'm disturbed an incredible. I think we're GONNA do a weird area. You can't handle the truth. This is fifty one The truth is fine detail coming for you. Look one of them now. Well come in Stereo nation to the PODCAST. That doesn't have a sonic weapon. Just a dumb robot. Hysteria fifty one. Do you always lie to your listeners. Are you saying we have a sonic weapon. Damn right I am. I have been working on it for months. The Lord Broadcasting from the lower fourth dimension also known as Chicago. I'm your host sprint hand. And that other voice you're hearing is the helper turned alcoholic nightmare Dr conspiracy but thank you anyway like I was saying I have perfected my sonic cannon want me to fire it up guaranteed to send you running. I know I'm going to regret this but sure fire way. Let's hear what you've made you ask for it now witness the firepower this fully armed and operational sonic cannon. I'm John John Go forth and John Go for dude. What the Hell I told you it works like a charm? People run for the hills now. Should I use my newfound power for good or for evil. You know. There's something fundamentally wrong with you and I blame myself good. I'm not beholding to just you and your sonic arsenal. I have someone here today. Who actually has had hands on experience with sonic weapons? Jeff is host also podcasting. So it's not his. We're not throwing them out on a limb here and tell them to dance like a monkey. He actually hosts changing hearts and minds podcast on the pod building at work and changing hearts and minds. It's actually a military history show and that's something that he is uniquely qualified to talk about because Jeff is retired army special forces six combat tours and also so lived in Chicago both of which are equally impressive. Well actually I think living in Chicago might have been the most dangerous thing I had ever done. It's so funny. People people people look at Chicago and they're like it's so crazy like like everyone is shooting at one another and screaming and people are on fire at all times either is right if you listen to what they say. You'd think that Chicago Detroit but it's not a Detroit is still Detroit and Chicago is still not that bad. Yeah you know. We're in the twenty five top worst anymore. But it's still got that stigma. Saint Louis is now number one a little tangent there. What's going on what's up what's new what's happened? Tell us about changing hearts and minds sells about pod belly tells about everything. Oh yeah well. Well potbelly brand new podcast network just popped up a couple months ago and thank God it did because as you know I had hosted changing hearts and minds podcast on the old chain chain. Pov podcast network which is an all military podcast network that I had gotten linked up with years ago and they offered me my own show to do military history That show actually that network went not went under but that network slowdown. Oh down lost a couple of hosts and then just stopped stopped functioning and so there was about six months that I was bouncing from podcast. A podcast being a guest host to do it all drifter the podcast world you know how it is you know when you when you put food on the table because the podcast what it used to be and so then uh you know the guys from the guys from potbelly network. Who Knew Me? I was good friends with them. They reach out. That means that eight. Would you like to start your show back up again. And I had all the old episodes still that is still owned and got with a couple of the guys who were you know co host with neon changing hearts and minds and we started it back up again. And so we're about three months into into our reboot over there in the pot belly networking working man. I love it I know yeah man I love talking about military history as you guys know. I've been on your guys disclosure episode because when my time in I worked out in area fifty one and so it's I mean I just love I love everything has to do with podcasting kinds of. I think it's a great way for for for us. Nobody's to get out there and take part in India so as we're sitting here are podcasting tables covered with stickers from people in my hand is sitting on a changing hearts and minds sticker right now like we're connected like we're connected through through watching movies on the Internet right so you got anything big coming up. Nope not not particular now. No I just I just keep going on. We got Christmas coming up and stuff the holidays. Actually there was a few years ago. I did the Band of brothers companion piece where I actually had some of the actors and some of the people that were on the show Plus a bunch of podcasters come on as co host. When we went through each episode kind of like a follow along episodes through it and this year I am working on putting together a follow up season to that and it's going to be on the Pacific which was the HBO's Second Second Perennial? Yeah I'm looking at doing that because I know that. HBO will be coming out there. Come out soon with a Another ten part series. It's GonNa be on the the airman and the air of robotics which the B fifty two bombers were massively dangerous job and yes I'm GONNA definitely probably jump on that to also offer aside side piece to it and get ready. Get Dale Dye back on. I had the first time in and see if we can get get that one because that was a good time and people really seem to enjoy absolutely and it's just such a you know that's a time especially with that episode World War. Two there are few and far between that are still alive and it's not something that we want to go away. You're let people forget. Get about a terrible thing. Recently in you know. Take everything with a grain of salt the read on on a line but this was on a new source where people were complaining that teaching about wars like World War Two is bad for younger people. I I didn't I couldn't even I can even wrap my head around. That thought I mean the problem. The problem is with military history is a lot of times. It's not pleasant. I mean as a as a former soldier I am completely aware of that but if we completely ignored what Hitler and mouth tongue. And all those really upstanding citizens of the world hadn't done then we're just it's going to have it happen again because you literally that old statement that our history teachers in high school and college all told us you know. Those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it. Maybe the most accurate older person talking to younger person statement. That's ever been made. It is important and it's also we don't want to forget the people that made the sacrifices that they graze it is those people really do lay down and put put put some damage into their bodies. Well exactly like the people they love war. Unfortunately at this moment in time is not going away in the way that we we your wage wars. Oh is changing from the time of World War Two the time you were in and now and that's kind of what we're talking about this we're talking about something that's got so so many names depending on what you're looking up. Sonic Weapons Audio Weapons Acoustic weapons ultrasonic weapons. US WS did you guys. When you're in the military leterrier did you or any other names that they use for these things? Oh God Some of the ones that like active denial system you know long range of Kucic devices aces hyper acoustic. Psychosomatic weapon systems. I mean you. It's like a WHO's who of it's almost like the bill. nye The science guy and Mister Wizard got together and had who can make a longer science word competition and then they just apply to a weapon system. So they're out there. There's all kinds of difference I tell you before you got on scene about was sharing with me. He's been working on his own. I'm John Go forth in John Go for only about. I mean. Remember the days when we would linkup in those dark alleys badmin- shut up about that. I'll never mind. I'm sorry I'm not supposed to talk about time. See by easily in the dark alleys. They were just a toaster. Doesn't doesn't like to talk about that to me so I understand my bad but you know what are these things Larry is what they are. Stop it they. Hey Are they are weapons too as they define them injuring capacity tate or killed opponent. They're using sound or sound. Waves are bursts. And and that's nothing new there but the kicker the difference is that they're using sound do so instead of concussion bullets things like that and You look at it right online. I found some awesome like proper names that they use for some of these sonic bullets. Sonic grenades sonic minds. Sonic cannons. I I mean they sound like x men characters or powers and shit like that. Yeah right right straight out straight out straight out of the pages of marvel. It's here we come with a thermobaric grenade thrown by insert whatever. We're name a fourteen year old named himself right it. Just wrap them in a bunch of red and with a big star on him and say that their enemies and Soviets and then we're good. Yeah I wanted to be a superhero but I just don't look good and Spandex so I'm going to have a superheroes superheroes almost always show them from the hip up exactly. There are different kinds of these weapons that kind of broken down into different things. infrasonic hypersonic take all tra- Sonic and I know those are things we've talked about differently on the show but everyone needs a refresh. Infra sound is the an audible frequency. Arrange below the human bandwith of hearing which is around Twenty Hertz and most of the things that actually create that are natural like volcanoes huge huge earthquakes and things that causes rumblings that you feel but you don't really hear I think is the best way and human hearings humans writer them. We don't have a good example of that is is when you hear that the animals start moving away from the ocean or you know evacuating an area because there's certain animals much like dogs and a lot of the canine nine and Feline Gina species they have access to these down to about fifteen fifteen hurts. I think so they can hear this stuff and you can see them always like X.. Filling out the area ricky take and they always tell you when the animals leave follow them and that's because they hit near the they can hear this stuff long before weekend an unnerving thing or in movies when like the flag of birds the flies or some something. Common ultrasound is the inaudible frequency range above the human bandwidth It goes on up from from twenty kilohertz up to several Gigahertz or GIGAHERTZ. If you're MC flies buddy Scott Yeah and that is something that ultra sound. We've heard about people use ultrasound for imaging You ever had a baby. You get older sound imaging when I had a really bad hand injury and I went through several different rounds of had five surgeries on it and they use ultrasound for healing for it because it breaks up a scar tissue. That gripes it from like sticking onto there because the scar tissue keeps you from being able to move it and things like that so they use alterra sound and you really don't even feel anything when they're doing it now for those you have the grandfathers who can't pee. Because they want to pass the stone they also use it to break up gallstones all stones and in kidney stones also very go hit me with a hit me with some of that. Sonic juice I gotta take a Piss out here. I lived through Guadacanal. It that stone in my bladder kill me has peed this bad since I was in Guam forty nine shot out of penicillin. Work this time did you. When you were in the military or even afterwards in your your travels? Did you ever have any experience. France within the East Sonic Weapons. Oh yeah for sure so First of all there is used audible in sonic systems and purposes. They span the beyond just secret weapons that actually right and we're going to break that down a little bit. There's going to be a lot of cases where we use stuff that sound on. That isn't some super secret. James Bond type stuff right and that's one of the experience. One of the two that I have. Is that one where we would. We would utilize on on playing loud music for twenty four hours on for detainees who were in their their first twenty four hours of detainment before we would actually interrogate them in special operations guys is we don't have to turn them over to the MP's for interrogation we have our own so basically one of the big ones that I did was when Sebok came out and played the Botchy Song for twenty four hours hours and then we interrogated someone. But it really wasn't the botch use. It did it. It was the Bochu. said he was feeding them which probably made them very very cooperative afterwards award which is weird because he said that you found one in seven liked it which was really weird. I mean every single one of them every single one of them that really got hooked on the botch watches. Were the original founding members of Isis Story. So one of the things that I think of. When you're when you're talking about that was there was an episode of the walking dead where Daryl role is captured and they play the Song Easy Street over and over and over? Did you ever see that. Yes yes and that comes directly that comes directly from sears schools. A matter of fact those idea yeah. That's something they did to us. Sincere school where they would play. These repetitions. Sounds or repetition music. There is a rudyard kipling poem called boots across across Africa. That this is not something I don't think is secret. But when you go to sear school what they do is they play that being read by this really high Falutin British voice and he's reading this poem over and over again in the background. There's this continuous beating a drum. And after about twelve hours a hit listening to this non stop. You really start to lose a little bit of control in your thinking and what's going on. That's the intent so man that's one of the things where you know. A repetition breaks more people than a lot of things just like when they when they bring people in to be questioned by the police right. You would be surprised how many people will confess doing things they haven't done just because they gotta get out of that situation right. Yeah that's the whole intent on it is is to just drive. You just wear you down to where anything but this happening again is worth me saying what they want to hear. And I'm happy to say for her but are worse. I don't know what that's like an and that makes me happy because I've never been a situation like that and I don't think you'd want to be not pleasant at all go. Well the other experience I've had was the actual. We did training with when they first brought out the elrod which we'll talk about a little later Would they put us out there. To show us is what this was weapon system did so there was two of them out there. There was one called the elrod and there was another one called the The eighty s which is the an anti denial use. Microwaves which actually hits you and I can tell you that these systems when they are turned up and they hit you they. I don't care how to if you're those things are going to make you comply so I can imagine imagine what at the highest level all these things do because we found out afterwards they had it turned up to like the first third of its power base guys you giant Green Berets and Rangers. Who Just Uber? Like no no more. Thank you very much man. Yeah and that's like and that was unsettling one. Let's let's go to Jeff and when we come back we're talk about some of the uses that they've used that that musical torture and things like that with and other types that's coming up on hysteria fifty one I took torture sounds dumb. And dumber when he's like. Do you want to hear the worst sound in the world and thank you or I should say you're welcome to everyone listening at home for that. Just like incredibly fast. You're already starting to annoy me. Everyone has heard of what we were talking about before. Probably which is the music to to break people spirit to flush them out of hiding or they've barricaded himself into a place and the we've used that to to varying degrees of success. One of the ones that was a true success in Panama back in eighty nine they actually blasted heavy metal music. Until Manuel Noriega surrendered ended. It was it was actually beyond. Just Manuel Noriega. If those you know the story he had he had ridden and locked himself. Opening Catholic monastery requested the the Catholic Church. Give him give him somewhere to hide asylum. It was actually the priests and nuns. Who had said if I had to hear Eddie van Halen one more time? Yeah exactly what it was it was I think they said they went back. And forth between between the opening of big long opening opening an Indian in front of pretty woman the the eruption that and then metallica's black album so often that they just couldn't do it anymore and they actually came came out and said you know you can either come in and get will leave or we'll go in there and tell him he's gotTa leave and what's what's crazy is there's fucking dudes out in like Delaware that had been listening to that on a repeat the partying much as much as they hated all the. US soldiers were kind of sandwich shops. Best we've had the other other one On occasion is another thing. That we talked about recently was Waco back in Waco Texas at the branch Davidian Mount Carmel and that siege they tried to get crushes Russian followers to surrender by playing all sorts of stuff. One of the things that they played on repeat was these boots are made for walking by Nancy Sinatra. Just over and over Christmas carols on blast and Tibetan chance just over and over and over again and it didn't work it probably should've just played Russia's Russia's music back to them because then they quit. Well what's funny is. He was playing that to them out the windows to boy of this game. Turn it up to eleven. Yeah yeah he was doing that crazy. And that was one of the things that Jenner arena actually use. When she went to Clinton she's like listen? This is constant a ton of money waiting on the mound isn't working. We need to go in and you know like I said the walking dead when easier. We're on easy street and I mean it's just the most upbeat or it's funny. I when I was researching this is looking online and I was reading an interview where the person that did easy street. It's just this upbeat Kinda for almost I children's song. And she's like the producers of walking dead called in can we use your music and we're like sure and they sit around like for weeks like what the fuck are. Are they going to use our song for they had no idea and then when they saw the episode that like torture that makes total sense they they know they know where their song those people. Yeah exactly they're like that is that is exactly what are some of the sonic weapons the US government has at its disposal. You talked about the elrod Colorado the long range acoustic device. What's that about right so the long range? But then the actual term is the long range acoustic device. Many of you have seen this before. If you look at any footage of like them cleaning up or you know police local police or some of this military footage of large scale protests and in crowd control. It looks like a large giant speaker on amounted vehicle at the Wall Street protests. And things like that. They used it in Ferguson Missouri. As well they did which was which was actually one of the last jobs I had done as part of the department's Data Chicago so I remember that bring them bringing that in there and the the really odd thing is this? This system is in its uncommon. Modern Day usage is more scientific but it goes back all the way to the Vietnam War and for those of you who remember apocalypse now and when the the you know the right of you know flight the valkyries is key is being played. Those are being played off of the original Siopas elrod systems which were just these really super high powered speakers that can go up to two miles take person at two miles distance. Feel like they're listening to their to the things that they're being told right next to them so they actually said yeah like those long ranges Well here's an example said a jet engine a full throttle or when a throttling up one hundred forty decibels when you're one hundred feet away at long range. The elrod is one hundred forty nine decibels that's right right. One hundred and fifty five is its type. It's top power speed but at the at the Max capacity which like you were saying is which is two miles that hundred and fifty five decibels occurs to the targeted individual as one hundred forty eight and it is massively effective now for for those of you at home listening if you want to have a reference point that part when you go to concerts or everything you start feeling that pain in your ear. That's one hundred twenty decibels you at human body starts feeling pain from this sound at one hundred and twenty decibels and yet you can hear that one hundred forty eight decibels two miles away. So some of the X.. Yes some of the effects of this elrod system causes equilibrium balance problems. You start having moving back and forth this this this this thing called Kennedy Zia which is a loss of joint muscle control. Where where you you WanNa move your elbow or your wrist? But you can't because the actual sound waves are interfering with the nerve signals. Yeah it just it scrambles everything in your brain it does it absolutely does and it causes pain. Nerves that at shouldn't exist directional awareness. So like if you were underwater in this got hit with you would know which way's up and the big one that I always thought was weird was a thermo -ception which is the ability to to identify thermal changes so it could be ninety degrees out on a nice off Lakeshore Avenue and you get hit with this thing and it feels like it's you know October or December and lakeshore. Ninety degrees in your body will actually react in hypothermic ways ways to that to that system being hit even though it is not an hypothetically crazy literally sound sound scrambling every part of your body. Your body's Nope. I hope not. I don't want any part of this. Well you always hear people say People Naysayer People Operating on wavelengths in your our bodies very much are operating off of their their. You're like their ability to peacefully live in a wave length where there with sound in the acoustics that are happening and we all know how music makes us feel when we feel certain way putting it on and that it has to do with the notes and everything but it also has to do with the robot talk some music makes you feel better than others. Sorry about that all day long. But let's not me and the other thing is the stuff that you hear people working on one of the things this term. That's been thrown around this phaser paine field generator stuff that China's supposedly working on the. Yeah this stuff this. This stuff is actually kind of scary because first of all not only. Can you get a phaser paine field generator from the Chinese but you can probably also an probably you can go online. Look that word it up and by household products that that thing out for you so yet yes so if you want a good example of what a phaser paine field generator is when your neighbor's house starts going when their alarm system starts going off and and if you're standing like inside the house and you're getting hit with that high frequent united high loud whiny pulsating sound that feeling that makes you want to leave. The home is the effect of the pain generator. So those things exists but the Chinese who what they have done is taken this thing a step forward so there is a guy named Xijiang. Who is the lead researcher at the Chinese Academy of Sciences and he is confirmed to the press? The Chinese have developed a what they call a sonnet gun which which operates off of this this technology and it was developed as a crowd control and that causes focus ways of sound too. 'cause the targets eardrums eyeballs and brains brains vibrate painfully. But the problem is it is signed this thing is the size of a hand held weapon system so it is is not some giant mounted system that you have to put up with all these protests and things. They've been using stuff like this and they're on their people a- AD nauseam yeah well that's a more jazzy. But but yeah you know. That's that's crazy to think and think you can make it with household utensils and my shit asses over here still trying to perfect. My weather weather dominator at home working on this right now because all you need is a tube shaped vessel containing inert gas when you hit the gas up it actually pumps out this monotonous deep sound. That causes all kinds of national things that happened to me. And wouldn't you know all my tube shaped vessels. I have gases in them. None of them are nerd. Man You can eat a decent trading I have lots of inert gases. What do you need me on? That is scary. And it's it's like you said so we're talking about the elrod it's on the top. It's like a turret on the top of the vehicle and yet this phaser paine field generator is the size of of a gun. Say probably about the size of like a car beam or a rifle. I assume at this point that must be what it's but the problem is also with this thing is no no one's actually seen it on. There are reports of people who are reporting having being Sims of it. Yes but there is. There's been no visual identification of this however the US government does believe believe that these are the Chinese research development guys have created this system. That is a hell of a thing to think about. And we're in the early stages of stuff like like that and they're going to be well as soon as they have. I'm sure we'll have some over here. Then we'll increase in other people increase it and then every cop on the blocks gonNA Have you know that's crazy to think about. Let's let's go to break again and we are GONNA come back. We're talking about you. Were talking about you know affects. Let's break that down a little bit more and were these really do. And then also some of the cases that we've talked about that May or may not have used some of these. That's coming up on hysteria fifty one all right. I've got my shopping based Acoustic Walmart is where I need to go. Get it like Jaffa I if you want if you want to get one. That's just going to really be like four for mass quantity of pain. You WanNa go to Walmart because it's also the place you can buy it and like what are you buying this for miracle weapon there you go there at like midnight you can get on the actual footage of people of Walmart Dot Com while you're buying your system sending into some person who's wearing nothing more than a light coat of baby oil nine the furry that holding the baby oil bottle man so the effects of this have have we were talking about what they you know what they look like things like that. There's different ways that they affect people and one of the things you're talking about. It throws people off. They don't know if it's hot. It's Kohl things that sounds actually heat up cells in the body causing damage. That's something crazy. These waves will actually heat your body and can hurt you. An ultrasound can cause Cava tation all sound. Waves are longitudinal including a like the way they move of the polling motion of molecules in the wave. Travels this happens in the air as well as it travels through an object like your body Cava tation is when the pressure difference between between a strong push in a poll in a very loud sound causes bubbles to form inside your body so in other words it can give you the fucking bins almost most but not just in your blood. It Causes Cavities inside your body by sound. Yeah it's really. It's really scary stuff. So those who watch it's the Like people firing a ballistic gelatin. And you see that large bubble that follows the bullet That's that's what what Burns talking about that. That cavitational creates and ended when that cabinet there. If it's if it's a high enough in a fast enough frequency that's going through that cavity can actually cause the pulling up things like nights nitrogen out of the bloodstream. which which yeah could yet end up giving you nitrogen sickness which is the Benz and you wouldn't even know you would have no idea Other than this feeling of just got hit with something thing you know. Some kind of like sound pressure wave in the next. You know six seven hours later Manziel bleed now the news who knows how. Yeah Gary Stuff. A crazy thing is that when things happen a lot of times we WANNA blame weapons or the unknown and it's not always that way sometimes. It's just dumb luck. Almost Anna case of that is the Cuban Embassy back in twenty six and twenty seventeen at least twenty four people at the. US Embassy in Cuba heard what they described. Scribes high pitched sounds and they suffered injuries that everyone attributed to these noises and they started blaming what they thought. Were Sonic Mike Weapons. They thought Cuban people someone the Russian someone was using a weapon against them. Well as times went by since understand people have studied the case and it turns out they actually believe it was just bad engineering and rather than sonic weapon to actual. Oh pieces of equipment there were letting out. Ultrasonic sounds and the interfered with each other and it caused this audible side effect. That made people sick. Sounds something crazy that that you hear when they build bridges they gotta make sure that they don't hit the wrong sound they'll dance and shake apart right right. Yeah Yeah. That's the same kind of thing you could blame it on a weapon system but it's not a weapon system however the thing that's happening to these people is the same effect that a weapon system would Had Gen that's why it. It makes sense at their mind. Went there this one just happened to be dumb luck instead of being but you're exactly right all the symptoms were there that it makes sense. It's now there was a US embassy Moscow microwave device event. Oh yeah absolutely so bad back in one thousand nine hundred fifty three to one thousand nine hundred seventy six and this. This is kind of the birth of the Modern Day What they call? Non Lethal or non kinetic weapons program so the US finds out through just like regular reports from their embassy personnel. That they're guys get sick there and they go over there and find out that there is a directed microwave signal which you know. Microwaves much like sandwich on wage. Operate in that same kind of science. They're getting hit with this microwave from this building across the street. In this specific floor they actually defined and obviously it was the kgb the or some kind of the one of the Soviet intelligence services but from fifty three to seventy six this sound had assaulted and just been blasted onto the embassy and instead of than in the great us us way of doing things instead of protecting their embassy people the US sent Dr out there and just investigated it so they could study the affects wchs justice like this man right. They studied the effects on the diplomats. I'll letting multiple. US diplomats get cancer at a higher rate of anyone Nelson the funny part the funniest part about this story. I tell people all the time is that signal was being sent at two point. Five to four GIGAHERTZ. I I worked right now in the IT industry and we all know that your Internet signal runs off of two point four and five gigahertz. So what kind of long range inch. Long range damage. Might we be doing ourselves with our Wi fi signals. That are running at the scene gigahertz frequency that this microwave damaged admit or that the Soviets used on us was is being used but we got we got hit with that and it led to one of the two sonic weapons at the. US still has now. which is the microwave version of that of that L. rank system? That the bad news for you. If you're thinking why don't have wi fi at home. Guess what you do because it's everywhere and you're walking through it right like a fucking puddle swimming through it everywhere man. They're not the only ones the the red states over there. China was doing some of that. Too right yeah. So that that device we were talking about earlier sonic gun That was being developed. The reason why they went public with the fact that they had it was they were trying to offset the reports in two thousand eighteen of the same type of diplomatic attacks that we're being being done that they thought were being done to. The People in Cuba had been getting done to a couple of Chinese diplomats or American diplomats in China China. Unfortunately the the now the now commonly commonly Assumed situation there was. This is the confirmed attack. The these these people in China these two diplomats were in fact affected by some kind of Acoustic Kristich. Were Sonic weapon system and I think the Chinese coming out Alza. Old Z. Whatever his name was from this from he was coming out with that to try to say? Hey Look we've developed a weapon but that weapons intent is not what these people are having a happen to them so the Chinese are very much trying to separate themselves from this attack that even they have to admit really did happen to these these this group of US diplomats in China. oops we got caught. Well let's try to play off as well as we can at least at Argonne and we knew it was happening so we decided to study it see old. US well you know never. We don't ever let anything go to waste. Well you know what speaking to not letting anything go to waste a good story a good. TV Show like ancient aliens. We've got to bring that in because this is near fifty one. We got a clip from our good friend. Mr David David Children's David Hatcher childress. If you're nasty see that clip for us the idea that some kind of sonic weapon was used to destroy these huge thick ancient walls to allow the Israelites. Who basically take over? That city is a fascinating one. So so what kind of technology where they're using. It sounds utterly fantastic to us that they could have had some kind of advanced Alien Technology Eh. Clearly what they're describing. What ancient aliens is saying? Is that the Israelites. Back in the day had giant. Sonic weapons that they use to destroy walls to get into cities. Another thing that they've said is they've used these weapons to cut stones to build walls things. He's like that. I thought I thought that Indiana Jones and the Ark did that right right well. Just don't don't look at it when they open it and you're fine. The those walls looked at the other thing and this is something that we've dabbled with. I know scientists have tried and acoustic levitation. Something that they can do on a small-scale a lot of people say that's what they did with the Pyramids say just had acoustic levitation and some dude. You know I'm floating around. That was actually actually the the rumbling of all the bellies of the people who weren't getting the grain that was being stored in the permits. They did get had poisoning and they all died any the US or ships. I wouldn't worry about it but al but seriously though that's something that is a a running line in a lot of these ancient aliens. I picked one quote quote because there were so many to go through but like this whole running thing in the show is that obviously obviously they had this technology Azizi and my whole thing with that is if we did. Let's say that I don't even know that alien. Sit It if we did why. Where did it go where where does this shit go? And why are we just now getting back into it. Well you know the aluminum. He's not GonNa let us have that weapon. So the Damn Reptilians. I told them to make it that way. I the thing is they want to. They want to utilize some technology that they don't have to necessarily. And this is the people who are way out there these wackos they. They want us this. This as an example of system warning or a technology that can be used and the reason why is because they say how it's incorrectly used they don't use the right words words literally there's only four people in the world to understand how the technology works anyway and they're not watching ancient aliens so everyone else can just believe whatever's being put out there and that's a funny is a Science ignorance is something that you know. I it's very prevalent always is but things like win. Einstein was coming up with relativity relativity. And he put it out there. There's is really only like two or three minds could actually understand what he was getting at now. We have people that that breakdown and and try to make it. So Layman's can lease understand and grasp the fundamental concepts concepts of it. You know and you've had people like Stephen Hawking the put out their books that break it down and and brief history of time and a briefer history time and things like that and to where we just go. Oh yeah and you got neil. DEGRASSE is to go. There makes it understandable for everyone by really breaking it down and then he hits on movies by saying that the stars weren't correct they just let us have it. You know I'll man. So what do we have to look forward to in the future like. What do you see with where we're at and you of having the unique you've had been in the situations where you could see weapons systems and the way that they progress? Where do you see it going? So military weapons in systems. Have this this tendency to go. The way of what I like to say is regular media. US giant televisions back in the fifties and sixties. Now we we can watch it all on our phones because it's so small so I think the the miniaturization of these weapons systems is where I see this going in the future. We're not going to be able to change affects that these weapon in systems have but having a giant vehicle mounted one then now we have a rifle sized type of sonic device. Next thing you know it's going to go down to a compact case is one that woman can carry inside of her her and then then we've got problems and we have. We have kids going into schools with sonic weapons. That are not just run. DMC played on a loop Some real problems right now. It's crazy to and the things you know. Think about with these things is like with the elrod and it's putting out those massive decibels all going forward and there's a guy standing right behind hearing nothing right right. Well there's the people operating the system that are literally right underneath underneath it or right behind it looking at it so much but I tell you what the government they do their best to try to make it safe with the ads which is the microwaved amid the active. Denial System That thing is throwing ninety five Gigahertz at an individual person and they claim that it only penetrates one sixty fourth of an inch person's skin and I feel like they're boiling from the inside. I I don't I don't know if if the technology or the science behind it can support the fact that we know what long-term effects so these are going to have on people. I don't really want one sixty four. Th of any part of my body. Boil rule that. I've I've come to love and embrace. I've I literally had sunburns that. That are less than that and I'm miserable for weeks so I mean right. Oh my God. Yeah and you're right the thing you're talking about there too. That is something that well unfortunately they. We don't know what the long term effects are. But I'm sure they'll keep using the MON people and testing it and seeing think just in in Darpa and we'll figure it out right man. You're forgetting about my favorite acoustic weapon. I don't even know if I want to hear what this one is. The Brown note the perfect that one. You will be the first to know when I do. I Bet I bet that is what we need. Just hit the button. Everyone takes Shit Shit actually surprise you can't focus at people's stomach rumble. Their bowels until they let loose with somebody actually one of the long term effects actually being exposed to the elrod system is intestinal problems. But it's not it's long term so if you if you have the I guess maybe the drug the drug induced power to stand there much like a person on Angel Dust can get zapped with a Taser if you WANNA stand there and just absorb the elrod sound waves long enough. You're GONNA Shit Yourself. It's going to happen so I mean I remember like I said I remember the days in at the firebase when when she bought would show up and just you know blast audio waves just just to see what happens research. He had a Darpa sticker on so and it's fine no invade any attention. You guys signed your lives away anyway. Yeah it doesn't count doesn't matter awesome nation. Those are acoustic weapons. It's kind of scary thing In the fact that they're not lethal they could be used improperly or long enough but it's things things that we see used on civilians and things like that and it's just like Jeff said we don't know a lot of the long term effects this can have. I've seen in people's lives are ruined by having their equilibrium thrown off and they have vertigo for the rest of their life. I'm one of those people. One of my one of my traumatic brain. Injuries is giving me what they call a call. Inner ear inner ear balance issues. I cannot close my eyes and stand up and that's one of the side effects of the CBI. That I had so that is terrible. I can't Oh so my father had that happened to him later in life and when it happened got incredibly sick. And he had problems the rest of his life and that was one of his issues. Too and The thing that you could cause that on accident even by something like this is terrible and think if you I don't know I don't even want to think about that. So crazy crazy you're trooper man. I I'm sorry you deal with that. You know so I was talking to me of us. Don't have to so well. Hey we appreciate it. I do John's John's on here a problem because he doesn't appreciate you. That's terrible I'm sure. Yeah but he's not here to defend themselves talk she so those are our thoughts. What's what are you guys? That's what are your thoughts of where these weapons could go. Let us know and you can let us know by going to steria nation. That's on facebook. Just go to facebook and and search hysteria nation. Also you can let us know by tweeting to us. At Hysteria fifty-one pod. PATRIOTDETROIT DOT com slash hysteria. Fifty one you can find find this episode extra episodes up all nights you can get yourself. Stickers and cousy an pins and posters and shirts and all sorts of stuff host drone episode. If we still stiff John you know what I'll let y'all sniff John for the right price they'll forget you can also also heroes Mondays on K. G. R. A.. Radio let's K. G. R. A. Radio DOT COM every Monday. But they need to go to another show they need to know. Where can they find changing hearts and minds? Working they find pot belly network. What's the four one one? Appreciate that man. Yeah you can go onto tunes apple and I'm just putting changing hearts and minds. PODCAST will pop up and you'll see the The camouflage background with the shield C. H.. 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And if you've got questions feel free to post them in there for him and if you forget any of these links one number one his links you can look into the show notes. They're going to be there. Or you can just go to hysteria fifty one dot com and find this that and everything you give us a voicemail also seven seven three six six nine seven two seven seven again seven seven three six six nine seven. Two who seven seven and telephone about the show telephoned about changing hearts and minds and then screamer allow meant friends ear inn in right to Darpa. Let them know because because they're always looking for research don't tell told you anything about me. I know see bots got that India that we signed. If you if you tell them that you've been working with about you might get visitation and and you don't want that you don't Jeff. Thank you so much for being on this week. Yes Sir thank you with that. Said I've been Brent. I've Been Jeff. He's been conspiracy by stay awoke. meet sex that's it for another addition of hysteria fifty. One John John and Brent will be back next week we've yet more of the unexplained the unexplored and the unheard of. Oh if it's unheard of how would they know about it anyway. If you want to suggest a topic give us your thoughts or just make fun of Conspiracy Bolt. That's my favorite join us in our facebook discussion group. The history of nation just log onto facebook and search hysteria nation. Or you can always tweet us at hysteria fifty one pot. You've been listening to four hundred shines.

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Episode 235: Operation Just Cause (Entry 869.EZ4510)

Omnibus! With Ken Jennings and John Roderick

52:19 min | 7 months ago

Episode 235: Operation Just Cause (Entry 869.EZ4510)

"Nothing we are Jennings and John Rodrick. We speak to you from our present which we can only assume as your distant past the turbulent time that was the early twenty first century during the great cataclysm that will surely befall our civilization. We began this monumental reference of strange obscure human knowledge. These recordings represent our attempt to compile and preserve wonders esoterica. That would otherwise be lost. So whether you're listening from an advanced civilization or just reinvented the technology to decrypt our transmissions. This is our legacy to you. This is our time capsule this is the you have accessed entry. Eight six nine dot easy four five one zero certificate number one nine three four five operation. Just caug- Mr Purple. That sounds good to me. Poppy Mr Urban the purple. Some guy some of the job is Mr Purple. Your Mr Paint. Who CARES RENAME? That's easy for you to say you're Mr White Cool sounding name. I look if it's NO BIG DEAL TO BE MR PINK WANNA trade. Nobody's trade. Would anybody just 'cause what we we see that joke in blockbuster video about once a week there was a? Do you remember the early? Ninety s thriller. Just cause with Sean Connery. And Laurence Fishburne. No so I've never seen it either but there was a plethora of these kind of bad sean connery thrillers in the early nineties badly reviewed end a. I would always grab that one and be like hey do you guys want to get this and some say why and I'd say just because people love to. Yeah there's no pasta before the cause them. Yeah I feel like I feel like my desire to make that joke and then your story makes me feel bad about my. That's kind of why I wanted to give you the background have you. Do you remember you remember this time? Of course the nineteen eighties. Reagan era into the into the Bush era early ninety s with with some Clinton hangover of Of just being excited about. Us overseas military adventurism. This so people could not get enough of that on Cable News. You Know I. I was the target audience for late seventies early eighties military adventurism but after the invasion of Grenada and the Falklands War I transitioned into like a radical peace. Nick and so all this stuff. I was no longer excited by it. I was enraged. I was protesting in the streets. I was one of the one of the hippies that was out marching around me John. I'm supporting the troops. I know you were. I mean it's hard to imagine because we now live in an era of constant endless global war. Isn't that kind. It's fantastic. I know everyone. There's no downside. As an investor in several a munitions factories. I always interested in a new front. We're always looking for military contractors to advertise on omnibus. We're looking for Raytheon or somebody to buy some time to put your new missile system on the omnibus- just Just right at the omnibus project. That gmail.com we will load you on the bus and so it seems odd for people of this area and I assume I'm speaking to a future. War ravaged Earth where they are still in the middle of endless global war. Yeah they're just listening to US between raids right. Thank you by the way we appreciate being your voice of Voice of the blitz or whatever but there was a time not so long ago when the memory of Vietnam had faded a bit And I mean not for anybody. Who is there cut for anybody not for us either for Gen Xer? The memory had faded a bit. And the you know. The beginning of the current nightmarish war on terror hadn't happened yet. And so and Cable News crucially had just started. Twenty four hour hegemony in needed. That's right it's content within the first. What ten years of Cable News Right? I don't know when Ted Turner when when did CNN start going round? The clock early eighties. The problem with it was that it had a half hour loop. That never changed right. I mean they would update little bits of it but just David Good now on headline news saying the same stuff. It wasn't this con- It wasn't like a news anchor standing there like real new real time using you. It was. It was prerecorded. It was like watching the the Walter cronkite thirty minute newscast over and over and it makes me angry. That doesn't exist anymore. Like you turn on headline news today. They haven't changed the name. Maybe it's now but it's just reruns of cold case. It's like reruns of true crime shows from the nineties. Yeah but they still the CNN. Still call the station. H. L. N. But it just airs twenty cold cases in a row. I REMEMBER WATCHING CNN. In those early days. Just praying for something newsworthy. Because for whatever reason I would watch thirty minutes of news and then it would recycle and you'd watch it again. Just the idea that it was. It was happening that if something did happen. The plane crashed or or a war. Started that it that you'd be the first to know. It was super excited. We were the first people I think. For whom foreign policy and natural disasters and stuff became real time real time television entertainment and of course that led to the the end of the American experiment. Pretty Much Roselle but it was. It was super exciting back then to see what's going to happen to Mount Pinatubo. We'll get another update at half an hour last night. I logged onto twitter to tell some jokes and whatever the latest foreign policy disaster just rolled in as it was going down and I felt that I had to comment course and we're recording this early. Twenty twenty when we're at another. You know the endless series of flash points in the war on terror which is not reduced my terror at all no although it's really kind of a war reinforcing townhall though you know the terror that Americans kind of like to like to experience personally isn't real Iran. Iran. Iran has no capacity to strike against the United States. What Iran is going to do is set off car bombs outside of embassies for the next twenty five years so as long as you don't go to an embassy or overseas. Well Yeah you're fine. But what if you know anyone service as long as you don't know any will be deployed to as long as you're not in the military or do not have a child that's going on foreign exchange or do not do business with any multinational corporation and that's okay employed in live in? Seattle and you know. We don't actually know that many people who are deployed we do. I got I got a lot of messages last night from people who are either deployed or have family or friends that are deployed. And it was. It was shocking to me. A friend of the show who listens from his bunker said that the very close friend of his WHO's in the military police just went to Kuwait like three days. How I saw. He's like she's over there now. And what can I do? She she usually. I have her back but I retired and she just went on like a milk run. It's a lot less academic. Yeah for for hundreds of thousands of people and also the million eighty million people who live in Iran who are now going to find hardliners. Much more appealing option. The four hundred million people live in that region. Read who were already like Kind of amped up so really. It was really pernicious. This idea that the occasional Reagan era military adventure was a fun thing to watch on. Tv were you in high school in eighty nine. Yes Desert Storm Slash Shield right Remember they remember the the support? The troops we are the world like Kevin Costner engineered Asher thing it. Eight hundred nine was also the Oh. Sorry operation just costs so yeah shield is ninety one. That's true. I was in ninth grade in eighty nine and I remember really round the clock coverage of the invasion invasion of Panama and it had a neat three act structure that our cable anchors loved. I mean seminal moment there is Bernard Shaw John Holliman and Peter Arnett under a coffee table at the Sheraton or whatever watching the first bombs fall in Baghdad and everyone just watching it like it was a video game with night vision cameras and Americans just eating it up. That was released spoonful of sugar and the cool thing about all these military engagements is that they all ended about four days later in resounding victory and we got used to the idea that when the US declared war it was good TV and then it was over by the weekend. The problem with Noriega is that he was such a tinpot dictator. It did not feel like he was worthy of that much American attention and also even then they didn't thirty thousand guys for one for one drug lord even then yeah the connection to drug money laundering and the way that that had all just recently played out in the arms for hostages. Sort of scandal of the Reagan administration. We all were very suspicious at this point about CIA and involvement in drug trafficking. And so it very much. The stink of conspiracy was on the invasion of Panama and and particularly those named operation. Just cause really. It was a big big cesspool. See this is your peace. Nick take you and your buddies are already talking about how this is. Just cover up north all over again man. It wasn't th this was. This was the era when we were starting to recognize that the that the drugs from Panama get turned into crack and sewn in the streets of American inner cities. Creating an epidemic. You know we were. We were tying it all together. George Bush was the first president with a crack dealer. That's right as we've covered so just to set the stage in nineteen eighty nine. Manuel Noriega the dictator of Panama. As you mentioned had been a operative. He had been our guy in the region for decades but it turned out he was everybody's guy in the region for decades Reagan's secretary of State George Shultz said. You don't buy Noriega you only rent him. He's like beer. Apparently because at the same time as he is happily taking a six figure check from the CIA every year to advance American interest in Central America. Because I'll be cared about back then. The form just had one question that said the Sandinistas and Noriega was like wait. I got one hundred fifty thousand a year. Oh Yeah I hate the Sandinistas Eight home. Much eat them. But as it turned out he was also funneling aid to to the Marxist rebels Salvador. He was minute. He was giving intelligence to Cuba and other Warsaw Pact nations as a anybody with an open. Checkbook Manuel Noriega became their best friend and a few decades into his run as a US CIA asset. He also became president of Panama essentially dictator for life of panel and we had recently had very complicated relations with Panama American Public Relations. Wise because Carter had had negotiated the transfer of Panama Canal to Panama. During the late seventies leaving tens of thousands of US troops based there but yes giving them back the canal zone which was which was a very controversial thing and it was politically controversial in the sense that people on the right side of the spectrum felt like that was a betrayal. I will never forget my seventh grade. Social Studies teacher when we'RE DOING. Latin American history saying until the SE I. I saw the end of the sentence until the canal was given back. Thank you very much. Jimmy Carter and with such venom inner voice. Suddenly she thought about her anger. The Panama Canal Zone was no longer American. The bumper stickers said keep our canal giveaway Carter. I don't remember them. Yeah keep our canal giveaway cards Panama Canal Zone Anger Drum. If you retrace Carter Anyway so yes Ken. The canal zone had been given back but leaving the US troops in the area and has tightened his hold on power while he did a few things. First of all he started to traffic drugs more flagrantly right leading to actual indictments in US courts and was part of the Iran. Contra scandal exactly right of the Reagan administration. This was the dawn of Seymour. Hersh to or not the dawn but like this was he wanted Vietnam era reporting. But this was one of his This was one of his later. Saurav exposes a right. I mean he he did. My lay was his his. Yes debut but this was the dawn of him just sitting at like in his New York. Times basically being the connecting pieces of yarn on garage. The Ronan Farrow right just like hey guess what gets called Seymour. Hersh he so Noriega. In addition to his during trafficking was tightening his grip on power at home He had lost a national election because he was just massively unpopular flaky character. Everyone they called him pineapple face he had yet acne. Just because this guy is murdering political prisoners doesn't mean you can make fun of his acne scars in my opinion no punch up exactly matched up exactly like trump is fat. But it's not. That's not why we hate him. Does Not why we hate them but we don't hate him. Santa's fat we love. That's right exactly so. So there's lots of reasons to hate Noriega. You don't have to call him. You don't have to call him custody fat. Yeah now I really hate. Maybe you should be eating more pineapple having a face. Short like triple threat. Oh is he really short tall. He's a squat guy if he is actually tall then he's got to be four feet across he had been soundly beaten in an election and then the opposition pre count and saw they had one and so he nullified the election. Could man and send out. This is one of my favorite dignity battalions to just start beating up opposition protesters and leaders. I mean that's what I would have done. Dignity Battalions is very good like. It's got the kind of Orwellian thing where the thing means it's opposite you know the Ministry of Truth does but really what he's saying. Is that what what gives you? The most dignity is to beat up your political rivals. St Sure there'd there'd be undignified by voting for for some lefty Weirdo with a college diploma. Instead of the Generalissimo feel like dignity. Battalions are things that would appear in those late seventies German porn movies where there was some sort of Nazi dominatrix and listen. It's some lady slapping a writing battalion. I'm going to take your word for it. The dignity battalions and he and when the when the US started rattling sabres about these actual indictments in courts in Miami or wherever they were He he retaliated by sending his battalion's after US soldiers again. There's over ten thousand soldiers stationed in his country. You'd think that would worry him but no he just starts having them beat up on the streets. What really yeah. He doesn't support the troops. Sean Female Service members are getting groped and harassed and worse. There are about one. Hundred incidents of these dignity battalions guys just roughing up some some guy out by souvenirs off the BASS. Don His me when a when a like a regional warlord. So confident defies the United States to the point that the is prepared to like go like tip over into cruise missile time and whatever. It is whatever 'cause they're all kinds of dictators to find the United States all the time but that they wouldn't be able to read the room if you know like they're going to rain bombs down on me if I don't like back up a little and the weirdest thing about Noriega is that unlike Kim Jong Java whoever he literally has multiple US bases in his capital city you know he's he's miles away from the nearest Delta Force seals special forces right like one mile away but but he also has the phone numbers of like twenty five high ranking members of Congress to call North's Pager. Just all right all right all right what is it. GonNa take to settle this factor. That must be what he thinks. He must think his connections with the Reagan. Bush axis is going to you know. Keep him safe and this is all just sabre-rattling for the press right look like to keep America safe. That's that's their number one thing. They do for generations in fact the night of a few days before Christmas. Nineteen eighty nine the. Us Says No. We're serious we're going to invade. Panama Noriega says Nah and goes off and gets drunk when the when the You know in thirty thousand. Us forces arrive in Panama City. They cannot find Noriega and it's because he happened to be hiding from his wife the night the invasion started. Wow this is a man after my own heart. This is what I would have been hiding from my wife and oops an invasion. Maybe in your early era so Noriega's off drunk in so they surround the presidential palace. He wasn't there and his wife doesn't know where he was. Because he didn't tell her he went off to get drunk and some REC center at a at a Panamanian Air Force Base. And had a sergeant go out and find him a prostitute genius and when the troops come and he's like. Oh Bush was serious. He's just he's dressed in a T. shirt and boxers and flip flops. And he's running for cover and he just heads for his secretaries apartment in the city craze. Like they'll never look at The Marianas House or whatever taxi and he's right days go by and nobody can find the guy. So this is why it's perfect for Cable News. So we've secured the capital. Tell us what's going on on the ground there but we don't Noriega's slipped through the net. He's allusive spider hole except it's just suburban apartment and because this is the pre nine eleven time line this all gets wrapped up for two or three days on the next day. He makes it to the Vatican embassy a day. Later we start. You May Remember. We start cranking Yeah Classic Rock at the Vatican embassy in violation of Vatican two. You know of course. It should have been should have been bluest. Her cult. No it should have been. Those Gregorian chants popular minute. Einste- about an issue. I bad one song. Sadness part desire or whatever it was How did Noriega get to the Vatican? What point did he make the transit from his secretaries apartment? Oh it was just easy. Nobody was watching the secretaries apartment. Why didn't you just stay there at some point? They're going to. His secretary doesn't have diplomatic immunity right but the pope does so he. He's banging on the door. Sanctuary sanctuary and the nuns. Take Him in so I knew a guy who was in the army during this invasion was in Panama. My sister's ex boyfriend Damian. What did he? What a Damian do Damian was an infantryman and and fought actually like like fired bullets and And like shot people securing strategic targets occurring strategic targets. And and. So I've talked. I talked to him quite a bit about the invasion. And of course he later became a like adjacent to alternative culture enough that he had lots of lots of things to say about. The invasion of concern confirmed our worst. Dighton the cynical nature of the Damian on our side now Damian was one of us the you know the detail that cable news loved that we were blasting annoying music at the Vatican embassy to try to get rid of trying. To get Noriega out seems like really are we? I mean the real. Do we have no other ankle? Real victims are the nuns. I mean Noriega Opera. He did not want to hear sticks but in fact the real story is pretty interesting. The reason why the OPS guys who showed up started play music at first because there were new American news media and international news media on the balcony of a nearby motel or something with parabolic. Mike's and they were afraid. That tactical stuff is going to be over hurt so they just started playing Steve Miller band so the mask the mask the sound you know if they had played the they'd played Kenny. Loggins like front to back like greatest hits of Kenny loggins. I think the war would have been over with an hour. Well they started taking requests and every and every soldier. It'd be like Oh you'll be funny like strange days by the doors a Panama by Van. Halen I it was all in everyone of the play League Greenwood a God bless the USA. I have a playlist here. Let's pretend you're in the Vatican embassy and you hear these which of these songs I'll name a song and you say whether you stare you go. Okay you've got another thing coming Judas Priest into it. Yeah you stay blue collar man by sticks totally into danger zone by. Kenny logged out. We actually did play dangerous. I Bet Kenny three songs in and I wanNA hear you didn't last long. I don't know I can put my head under the pillow for the dead man's party or and go bowling. Go hang for that. Don't look back by Boston. Yeah for sure. Electric spanking of war. Babies FUNKE DELIC. Yes. This is a great party. This is claiming is amazing. I'M GONNA put this on my heaven's on fire by Kiss. Well you know. I'm not the biggest kiss fan. But that's not a bad song. I like that the army and the army are now. The same diagram has overlap. I've always said that That as the army becomes more and more motivated by metal and country Western. They will just end up being kiss army. It's just a battle of whether the Gigolos or the kiss army takes over the US armed forces. I if I had a rocket launcher Bruce Cockburn. The seems like they're just going by funny. Titles right but but it's gotta get they got to run out of funny titles pretty fast in my time of dying led. Zeppelin sure ironman Black Sabbath. Come on we should be playing this for this. Episode of Nuns are probably mashing at this point. Judgment Day Whitesnake. Oh no I'm back under the pillow for that a lot of songs with jungle in the title. Because this is what they're army guys thought was funny play. Welcome to the general so Judgment Day by Whitesnake jungle. Sorry sorry jungle. Love by Steve Miller totally into that. Yeah welcome to the jungle obviously differences Paradise City. No More Mister Nice Guy Alice Cooper. Yeah Lava Paranoid Black Sabbath. This is a this is like pre. It's when metal was still heavy metal. Rather than I mean I think these days you would just hear one slayer song after another or some black metal from Norway up the guys would be well. You know what they'd be doing. They'd be playing like hip hop well. I think in Guantanamo. I think it was a lot of ironic. It was like the Barney theme. I think is what we do now. Oh just play like the worst like imagine like you have a kid like Sri songs by the wiggles over the car stereo and I was ready to surrender to Delta Force. You'd give it up give up all the and obviously renegade by sticks refugee by Tom Petty. You know you can tell what they're you shook me all night long. They're going for funny. This means war by Joan Jett. The party's over by journey. They're going for funny. I was at this party in one thousand nine hundred nine. I just didn't realize that it was the same number. Yeah you had no idea and after a few days I think I think Noriega realizes he's stuck in with nuns. Yeah like there's there's really no. This is boring. Good way I was going to be able to talk his way out. Once he gets out he he walks out and surrender Marino olof where he do that more. Why don't we? Why don't you speak Spanish on every episode? I don't I didn't know you were Jamie. Lee Curtis from a fish called Wanda. I just keep hoping you'll you're going to switch over to Russia and the strong. Yeah John cleese on the plane and so the invasion ends happily the audience applauds. Vh One. We've become convinced that American invasions on TV or a great idea which the Gulf War does nothing to not me changed me. I was I was. I was sitting shaking my fist. You and Damian are mad. I was listening to refugee by Tom. Petty but totally mad. But you've already mentioned what what people have. Our political stripe thought was one of the most pernicious things about this. Not just that it was on TV and had greg readings but that it was called operation just cause seemed so cynical so it's on the nose just in case you're wondering if this was a just cause hey it's right in the Chiron at the bottom of the screen right. It is And it made me feel like the people that that get to name. Those things had no sense of humor anymore that was that was not the first name for the Panamanian invasion. It was originally called operation. Blue Spoon Seem. That's a great operation. Name Operation Blue Spoon. You'd prefer that. I think that's so cool. That sounds like a special ops operation. Just cause just seems like 'cause please I'm the dignity of attendance being. It's it's for it's for no one right. It's I mean it's for it's not for the public like you'd have to be one of the twenty insiders on earring of the Pentagon who know what Operation Blues. I would write a song called Operation Blue Spoon. The problem yeah. It's not too late now. The problem is that during the run up to the invasion the Pentagon is getting more. Tv aware general. James Lindsay commander a special operations command calls the operations officer. 'cause there's a bunch of mid-level. Pentagon guys who worked for the Joint Chiefs. Who are coming up with these names and he calls and says. Do you want your grandchildren to say you were in blue spoon. Yes see but they don't think so. They think it sounds trivial wool. That's the thing about it off a secret name. Yeah you call it like operation candlestick and it ends up being like the carpet bombing of like ten villages. Well here's the thing like those names. Go back to the Germans in World War One. They were the first ones to pick. You know to say you know. We'RE NOT GONNA call this the the offensive to take operation four to take whatever operation for the date. We're going to give it a one word name and we're going to say this is operation. Crates Burger Barbara Rosa or operation Valkyrie. The plot to kill Hitler was a great operation name. Although integrate operation I mean it didn't. It didn't succeed obviously in our timeline. They'd call the Blues Boone. Maybe we'd have a different outcome run by with an eye patch. That operation has a lot to like about it so the so the Germans were the ones that started naming operations like to keep the to keep them secret because if your operation is named Operation October fourth and that falls into enemy hands. Hey wins it wins. I it's counterintelligence sex on February thirty twenty nine February thirty nine. The on the ninth of never so it was. It was just German commanders. Planning the Western Front in one thousand nine hundred nine who who were the ones who kind of gave us the modern era by saying no no. This should be Operation Archangel. I love that just something from mythology like and thereby creating the Robert Ludlum the James Bond era. We live in their two thousand paperbacks that would not have titles if it weren't for whoever those mid level German commanders. Were I mean they were the ones who decided you had to put initiative or ultimatum? Or something we hadn't got to the second word yet but they had figured that out and And so that caught on especially Winston Churchill. Great had written a four volume history of the Germans in World War One and so he was very aware of how important this should be. He had very strong ideas. About what Konate abuse in the Central Eisenhower figuring out the interstate highway system by watching the German autobahn like Churchill came back and listen. I've figured out how to name operates. It's GonNa be so cool. Check it out and he actually wrote down principles and sent this to his generals. You know this is the prime minister and he's saying hey operations and rich. Large number of men's me live. There may lose their lives. Should not have a boastful overconfidence sentiment? 'cause you don't want to say tell a thousand moms that your son died in never fail. Yeah exactly operation. Your son lives. They shouldn't be frivolous. Because then you'd have to tell some widower mother. Churchill noted that her son was killed in operation. Bunny hug or Baillieu like it's got a sound good on a on A. We were at to Inform Telegraph. Churchill said Operation Bunny Hug. That's his idea of a of a no go navy because that sounds like a green lit comedy central animated show now Improv group operation. It sounds like you would like bunny hug. It's a blue spoon type. Meaninglessness makes it. Perfect well but bunny. Hug isn't meaning stunning. Hug is cute right it. It does suggest well. There's a lot of irony in it right because if you're if you're killing people and calling the bunny hug who that's not what you mean or it is what you mean the. Us mostly started using colors operation to go and then when they ran out of colors. The joint chiefs approved like a a pre written code word index that each each theater got assigned blocks of masculine sounding common. But not too common nouns. You get you know. The European theater gets market. Pacific theater gets flint lock for example and Churchill actually would veto names They'd come across his desk and he's like no no nope. We are not doing soap. Suds for example. Which is what the American bomber raid on. Romanian oilfields was going to be called. I'm reading from this seems like Churchill's down in the weeds about some stuff that he should be thinking at a high level she'd give that to a to to grow trump's our joy. We show blood sweat soap suds and tears. I'm reading from an article by military. Historian Gregory Seem Sieminski in nineties wrote the definitive history of twentieth century military operation naming the Normandy invasion which eventually it was called overlord for her fixed name. That's heavy because it worked. I mean failed. You'd look like a real dummy kind of a bummer operation. Five hundred pound gorilla but originally the operation was going to be called it was it was a combination of two planet had previously drawn up nine hundred forty two sledgehammer and nineteen forty. Three's round up. You switched over to Gabriel. Before right and so as a result they decided to combine it and it was gonna be called round hammer and churchill absolutely did not want round hammers brow although it sounds a little bit like some kind of Nordic like a like a mythical Nordic town yeah. You don't WanNa go to Germanic when you're invading hopefully when you're hopefully getting all the way to Berlin right the thing about all these names as they were only used internally. I mean today we all know. Operation Sea lion never happened. Operation Overlord was a huge success. But at the time these never made the papers even after the foul wasn't this part of your Your entry in the omnibus about the crossword puzzle. Revelations of all of these nags actually. That's why it freaked them out that suddenly Utah and Omaha overlord appearing in the Daily Telegraph Crossword or whatever. Because nobody was supposed to know these although the name doesn't give anything away but it did suggest like a that. Somebody's interpreting for for someone else who might have part of the answer. Yeah but in the years following World War Two. This naming gets a little more public. Because obviously if you're already selecting cool names it's a bummer. The nobody gets to hear them right right. The Guy who got arc light the guy heading. The A-BOMB TESTS ON ON BIKINI. Atoll for example was very carefully. Chose Operation Crossroads for the name. It's the crossroads of the Pacific. But also it's the crossroads of a new era in Warfare Etcetera Etcetera. He was very proud that he had thought of this and he wanted to any he he used it in Senate testimony. News articles began to include accounts of these words. Right it didn't carry over in Korea Macarthur. Just use the code word list but when so that's why you got like Operation Chrome or whatever just a meaningless name but when ridgway replaced him he decided this could be a propaganda tool and he just chose very violent aggressive nicknamed operation killer. Operation Thunderbolt Operation. Dauntless right like one of the one of the bombing campaigns of North Vietnam was called Operation Rolling Thunder. Well this was the problem in the Vietnam era. They decided they decided to go the other way. Johnston started complaining that the names were too violent. Because now you've got these guys on the ground trying to one up each other with Gung Ho names operation ripper operation Masher operation flaming children. And I'll be right. Well that's the problem. Lbj's dealing with shrinking approval ratings at home people don't like the idea of the war as visceral violence. That's what's that's what's leading on the news. So he gets mad and Westmoreland has to scale back the names to be a little more neutral up huge proper names. Operation Niagara still suggest a cascade of bombs on the North Vietnamese. But it's it it you know it doesn't it doesn't make a sound like bloodthirsty butchers right. It's like a honeymoon spot. After Vietnam the practice becomes to semi automate. These names a system called Nigga is invented in nineteen seventy five. That's the nickname for the code word. Nickname and exercise term system the CW NATO which it doesn't choose it doesn't spit out a nickname for your operation. But it's a database now. The hurricane naming conventions are those chosen by a an algorithm or does every year a does like a committee. Sit Down and say this one's GonNa be called Lawrence. Every Year Committee makes a full alphabet and they know they're not going to get to. W but they do it anyway. Well I think the big change there was that it used to be all women's names should be God intended. Well I feel like it's important representation. How many storm Gods Mythology are women none? Yeah that's right but all storm Gods in America used to be and now we've got Hugo and these things that are like I think the idea is it was it was called Daphne. It was considered misogynous to continue to associated force of of destruction with with female energy. Why not make sure every other one is Andrew? Well that hasn't been my experience in the dating world. See this is exactly the kind of hilarious Johnny Carson take. They are hoping to avoid by putting male names on the hurricane so what they did with the what. The military did with their naming operations that they divided the alphabet into sequences and assigned one of these two letter sequences to the twenty four component dod agencies in commands worldwide. Started in seventy five. Yeah so the US. Atlantic command gets assigned. It's like the dewey decimal system. Okay Atlantic calm you get. Ag THROUGH A AL. Es THROUGH EASY J G jail they get these segments of the alphabet of NAFTA PICK and they they're segment ends with. Um through you are which is why they chose urgent fury some staff officer somewhere recommended urgent furious the name for the Grenada Invasion Invasion. They're going through a specific urgent fury. Think how urgent it was to invade and furious. It was to invade Grenada. Nineteen eighty-three that's exactly when it starts sounding super dumb like blue spoon really cool urgent fury. It sounds like it sounds like a comic book and Comic Comic Book by un-imaginative. Right but here's the problem. In the era of twenty four hour cable news. Who loved the stuff is news anchors? Who now get to sound like a Robert Ludlum book right time. They say the Pentagon could not believe how often people started saying just cause operation urgent fury because they just thought of it as an internal thing. Where if anybody asks it sounds cool? That's all they were thinking. They had no idea that these bozos on CNN some guy some guy doing a stand up in front of a an embassy is going to want to say operation just in front of the embassy operation. We are three of operations because it makes them feel like they are right. Delta force operatives because they know the Secret Super Code Word you remember the the war journalist character from Doonesbury who like parodied exactly that kind of Like flack jacket wearing a chorus war correspondent who who loved the jargon and who you really situated himself in conflicts as a somehow as a participant even though imagine the Pentagon pivoting from Vietnam era thinking where the liberal press is the medium to realizing how quickly they could coop. These guys you know and and you get the whole practice of embedding journalists. Because that's actually not dangerous. That's the best thing you can do. Because these guys love to feel like they are part of the troops. And that's what we see in the in. The the first Gulf War is the complete neutering of independent journalists as they become just sort of I dunno embedded tools of the of the military. No one's no one's allowed off the reservation. I guess we don't say that anymore. No one's allowed off base off base. I don't know if it's a military base or a baseball base but just causes the pivot on which this turns in which Centcom realizes see. I just I said send comment. I felt so cool for a second. I felt cool to say it again. Said Com San and Spanish Cinta Kamal and they realize that this kind of What contact coolness is incredibly valuable? And so a lot of thought starts going into how these things get named. It's not just one guy being like. Hey Captain Lopez. Let's not use blue spoon anymore. Something cool they long conversation. Start to happen. Memo's go back and forth leading into Desert Storm. That was not the original name for desert. Shield it was originally peninsula. She'll because I think maybe p. e. was the right prefix and Schwartzkopf didn't like that became crescent shield because they thought if you give it a symbol are Saudi Arabian allies will. We'll see us as a force for good in the region and not a force of Western meddling crusaders but that didn't read very well either not compared to desert. St- right once once they realized how Cool Desert Shield and then desert's a sequel like you could storm pretty. Tv viewers decimal eventually but desert shield turned a desert storm. And for American movie franchise audiences. You were like Oh hell yeah. I Love Desert Shield. Let's up it. Let's turn let's tune into Desert Storm now rank volume and one thing that thing. That happened very quickly as that. All these foreign operations started to get this verb noun kind of a thing like you know you re Operation Restore Hope. Yeah operations to sounds like bad star wars ler absolutely. I don't even remember where these were restore hope is that is that Clinton in Somalia maybe promote liberty uphold democracy stop. It just became like what you would think of if you didn't have an idea and what's crazy about these and the thing about the thing about the invasion of Panama was that it felt so much like like an operation that was just a training exercise right then. All of these. It was a training exercise. But everybody got real bullets like there was never a threat. If American troops got injured. It was just that they they twisted an ankle in a hole or maybe a couple of people got shot but probably by accident and that became our baseline expectation. Yeah it really was. The people won't get hurt but we got to Durken's we'll get Americans but we got to do all the cool stuff. We got to drop paratroopers. We got to have gun. Ships got have bombs so it was just a it was just a way to like expend the ammunition that was about to expire in our in our ammunition dumps right like well. Let's get all this stuff we're about to retire. Let's give us up into that one one time around. It's ominous to think that what led to the advent of drone. Technology was not so much the microprocessors make possible but just the Pentagon realizing the public now demands this kind of bloodless war entertainment war on our side. What are the technologies that we can advance to get us there? Five Americans dying. It's like we can't. We can't sustain these losses but But we can spend thirty billion dollars and nobody bats an eye. This kind of propagandistic operation naming continues today After nine eleven the immediate decision to invade a Taliban held Afghanistan was at first called Infinite Justice Boy. Churchill would really. You can't want us deb. Out His cigar. It's like a school yard thing where infinite just what are you going to say infinity plus one and I think it was actually American. It was you know the Council of American Islamic Relations or whatever it was it was local Muslim clerics who were like doing the fingers to the throat. You donate this j exactly like this sounds like crusade rhetoric and that's when it became Enduring Freedom in during freedom which really is the perfect name for an operation that is now what year going into year nineteen going going into year. Twenty truly is enduring it has really endeared. Good job yeah the. I mean all of that naming convention and particularly like Homeland Security all that stuff just suggested the sort of anti intellectualism of that of administration and that whole era like for anybody to say Yeah Homeland Security it just it sounded so and nobody there said hey have you guys seen starship troopers. Yeah it's like Neo Nazi sounding. Yeah and but but to feel to feel like that's the flag you WANNA raise it. That was I think. Maybe the a tipping point for me where I felt like there is a real dividing line now between between an administration that would put like thought into making the thing not sound to Taliban versus an administration that would that would say you know what that name doesn't sound to tally. -Tarian enough this is maybe the kind of thing we should not be saying on the record lest know a dignity battalion. Show up at our door. Well you know. It's one of the reasons that I have fortified this compound. Because there are a few dignity battalions already expecting of the sort of seventies porn variety. Well they can't get in either and that concludes operation just cause entry eight six nine dot easy four five one zero certificate number one nine three four five in the future links in the unlikely event that social media exists in your era and that you've been a listener to omnibus long enough that you can stand sustained liberalism that we've exhibited in this episode. Snakes Knicks be second. Have to do it a couple of Snow Flake. Cox over here with our anti-bush is it doesn't mean that Kenan Ir are brainwashed. Progressives far from it. We're freethinking individualists we just. We're just not persuaded by the invasion of Panama. Yeah if you want to know more about us in our personalities you can go to Ken Jennings and at John Roderick We keep it all going at omnibus- Project on Instagram. So you can see me and fact I'm GonNa take a picture of you can put on my instagram. So if people want to go and look they can scroll back far enough that they see your real person. Don't finally no. There's plenty of photographic evidence of meat. I guess that's right. Well especially after your recent TV conquering hero status. Now your pictures on the cover of newspapers worldwide. I I really do think the odds are now fifty foot statue of me all over the future. Some of them probably rebel others already already in warehouses owned by tech millionaires. Here stands Mandy as king of kings. You can email us if you have. If you have corrections or addenda you can email us if the if you have mash notes for us if you have naming conventions for episodes you WANNA play a game of mash with us. It's an apartment. Oh darker game. What does s mention apartment you can write to us and tell us what the s stands for in the mass game? When Act game or mash game never played this mash. What is it? It's just an eighties trapper. Keeper thing you draw spiral and depending on where you stop the spiral it tells you who you're gonNA marry in where you're gonNA live and it's the most powerful form of divination ever invented by. Man. I never even heard of it. I don't think ancient peoples used it to find fertile grazing lands and water. No no I'm at a complete loss normally I I just might have to be. Its own under the century right well. Email us at the honorable project at g mail you can go to our facebook and Reddit fan groups under the future. Ling's umbrella you can mail US things at Po box. Five five seven four four shoreline. Washington nine eight one five five and if the if the mood strikes supports the show with a financial contribution at Patriotair dot com slash omnibus project? There are lots of bonus materials available only to Patriot supporters. Ken is now opening mail. We got a bunch of holiday cards that I didn't open in time that I'm now opening belatedly. That's nice this. This test says that her cats PIPPI and buster often listen to us but not her boyfriend come on bill well I think you have a new year's resolution which is to get bill to listen to the show and donate to us at Patriotair Dot com slash omnibus project. Jennifer appears to be some kind of Yoga instructor. Well past our yard over here. You keep the card. I don't need. I don't need to learn anything about yoga but I do need to learn about yoga instructor. She sent us events of Tillamook creamery temporary tattoos and Buttons Through Canyon. Crest Athletic Club. Let's see where that is. It doesn't sound like it's around. John just cares about his two nearest yoga pants wearer. But I'm interested in what she said what she sent us a Nestle Quik Rabbit Rabbit have a name. I don't know. Is he the one that kids can see or can't see but snuffle up? Can you crest? Athletic Club is Oh. It's in the inland empire. I would have assumed it was somewhere down in in Arizona. But it's really the next time you're in the valley. Let's see here. She also sent in Riverside California. It's not our into inland empower. I area and let him. I assumed you meant the San Fernando Valley when you said no inland empire is what we call that sort of Idaho. Spokane dominated Eastern Oregon. I've never had to refer to we. Call it the inland Empire Land Empire. I've been saying I've never been. I don't know what to call that part. Well no you know we also got she has tennyson. Buck Minster Fuller stickers reach. What are what's Mine? Mav It's saying don't fight forces use them and he's holding up his hand like he's using telecommunications say he's a very old man and he appears to have powers in this in this picture not just powers to to create uninhabitable geodesic. Don't no he's he's doing? He's doing Jedi. Mind TRICKS ON US. Right now listeners. Future Ling's from our vantage point in your distant past. We have no idea how long our civilization survived given the escalation in military operation naming. The trend line is not great. We hope and pray that the Catastrophe. We fear maybe averted thirst. Come soon this recording. Like all recordings maybe our final but if providence allow we hoped to return soon with another entry for you in the omnibus.

Us Checkbook Manuel Noriega Panama Reagan Ken Jennings Winston Churchill Vietnam CNN Cable News Pentagon Damian Iran Grenada Vatican embassy Nick George Bush Sean Connery army Reagan administration
Before the Medelln Cartel Pt. 4: Jung & Rivas

Kingpins

40:19 min | 4 months ago

Before the Medelln Cartel Pt. 4: Jung & Rivas

"On a Beautiful Bahamian Day and nineteen seventy eight. Carlos later was dressed as sharply as ever. He leaned back and smiled across the table at his business partner as he delivered the news George was out. Carlos was taking over upon hearing this George. Young's blood boiled. After all the being through the betrayal was unfathomable. He jumped up and flip the table over ignoring shocked. Gasps and stares from the other patrons Carlos couldn't do this he screened. They had built this business together. They were supposed to be brothers but Carlos just kept smiling. He chastised George. Don't make such a seen. This only made George Angrier. Suddenly to menacing bodyguards appeared on either side of him. Ready to haul him out back. Carlos smiled again and invited George to meet his new friends. As the men tightened their grips on his elbows. George realized for the first time he was out of his depth. Wilkin kingpins upon podcast original. I'm Alison Myrddin. And I'm Kate Leonard. Every Friday we journey inside the ranks of Organized Crime Rings From Street gangs to mafiosos to understand how a kingpin or Queen Pin Rises to the top of the underworld and why they fool as we follow the lives of infamous crime bosses. We'll explore. How money and power changed them. And how it's changed the community around them. You can find episodes of kingpins and all other park asked originals for free on spotify or wherever. You LISTEN TO PODCASTS. To stream kingpins for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type kingpins in the search bar. We're grateful for you listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at parts network. This is our final episode in a four part series about George Young and Carlos later us last week we learned how the to ambitious young smugglers became the most sought after a cocaine traffickers between Colombia and the US but this rapid escalation came at a cost straining both their mental health and their partnership. This week. We'll find out how greed and ambition got the better of both George and Carlos turning them from brothers into enemies and ultimately we'll learn how their riflery brought them down despite their perceived invincibility a by autumn of nineteen seventy seven. Thirty five year old. George Young and twenty eight year old Carlos later were millionaires and powerful junior partners in the Colombian cocaine business that would become known as the Medellin cartel. George had spent most of the summer ferrying cocaine from Miami to Los Angeles several times. A week. He'd return each trip with millions of dollars in cash for himself. Carlos and they Colombian suppliers including Pablo Escobar. Meanwhile Carlos had been expanding their network of suppliers and buying a Caribbean island. They could use as their base of operations though. They were raking in money. By nineteen seventy seven. Neither man was satisfied. In fact George was teetering on. Burn out he wanted to transition to a less risky managerial role hoping to cash out. Soon Carlos though had endless energy he was planning to build a cocaine empire on the Bahamian of Norman's Cay. Not only would it be a trafficking base but it would also be a springboard to finally kick start. His political ambitions long dreamed of becoming a mythical leader like Adolf Hitler Shea Guevarra Newman's key would be his first kingdom allowing him to launch a revolution that would take over Columbia and eventually install him as dictator all his years of half planning were giving way his unbridled ambition. The only problem for Carlos was George. His partner wasn't on board with the NORMANS key. Plan after he'd visited the island in the summer of nineteen seventy seven. It was clear that Georgia's vision of their future was a bit limited. It didn't help that. Carlos says new fugitive friend Robert VESCO piled onto Carlos's concerns insisting that George would hold him back Carlos knew he had a point but still the thought of confronting. George was uncomfortable. There was no way he wouldn't take it personally. So con- loose route that felt far easier and safer consolidate his empire to cut out his business partner. Then informed George a little insurance policy I Carlos got in touch with Richard Ba- relay their distributor in Los Angeles calls told Richard that from now on he was going to be supplying the pure cocaine using some other smugglers. George would still continue his runs because warned that he couldn't guarantee the quality of the product anymore. Richard had been in drug trafficking long enough to see through the lie but also knew better than to say anything. Carlos direct access to the best cocaine took precedence so richards loyalty to George took second place. This was business after all. It wasn't long before I could tell something was off. Richard began complaining that the quality of the cocaine George brought to him wasn't as good as it used to be. It had already been cut by the time it got to La. Certainly not the pure stuff they will used to. George was shocked with each run. Richards distaste for the lesser product grew. In fact. Sometimes he didn't even want the cocaine was offering. This odd behavior Causes George to Cool Carlos. Someone was messing with him. He worried either Richard or Pablo Escobar or someone else in many geen even worse. If Richard felt he could walk away from their supply that meant he was getting high quality cocaine from someone else but Carlos dismissed Georgia's concerns. Let Richard Complain. He wouldn't matter for much longer. Thanks to Norman's Cay. There operation would soon be moving a thousand kilos a week into the US easily. They'd have a lock on most of the cocaine supply in the country. George wasn't reassured. He had less faith in the normans key. Scheme and a nasty feeling that Carlos was being strict with him. Carlos is frequent visits to the island. Meant he was more removed from the day to day. Operation seemed increasingly less invested in it. Their business worked if they were both committed. And George just wasn't sure Carlos was anymore over the fall and winter of nineteen seventy seven Georgia's fears were born out. Carlos slowly pulled back on his regular responsibilities his attention instead to Norman's cay and vague promises for the future. The businesses upward climb suddenly evaporated before long Carlos had stopped arranging the cocaine deliveries and George couldn't get power players like Richard to buy from him anymore. Only able to sell ten all twenty kilos. At a time. Georgia's income took a nosedive. Fortunately George still had one key. Columbian contact his girlfriend. Merita was the sister-in-law of Umberto oils one of Pablo Escobar's close associates in the US. Thankfully George got along well with Umberto and when he and MIRTA ELOPE that fall. The two men became family. It was one small guaranteed that at least George would have a steady supply of cocaine to traffic but being married into an important cartel family also meant George had new reasons to doubt colonists reassurances about the future George heard stories through the grapevine and the more he heard about Carlos the angrier he got after Carlos had made his deal with Richard in A. He was pretty much free to do and build whatever he wanted. He had millions in cash the trust of Pablo Escobar relationships with plenty of greedy smugglers and an island in the Bahamas. He didn't have to answer to George anymore or anyone else for that matter with his men tool Roberts help Carlos poured money into no-man's key. He dredged marina turning it into a harbor for freighters and port dramatic seafront mansion that he called the volcano he was a king or at least he thought so and soon found himself surrounded by sycophants needless to say plenty of them encouraged his harebrained schemes. In one case when the islands few remaining neighbors began to complain about the increased Air Traffic Carlos concocted a plan to scare them off. A few days later of freshly blood-stained yacht was found floating just offshore. The neighbors took the Q and decided to spend time elsewhere colleagues. His antics went only exacerbated by the fact that almost all of his employees cocaine uses hiring on their newfound wealth and every drug they could get their hands. On the residents of Norman's Cay turned Carlos his property into a pleasure playground and for the first time Carlos lead himself enjoy it for most of his smuggling career. Carlos hadn't had much interest in the party culture that went with drugs. His mind had to stay shop for deals. But now on Newman's key he'd already made most of the big deals to ensure a thousand kilos a week moved from Columbia to the US. It was time to enjoy the fruits of his Labor. What started with a few lines of cocaine quickly became an addiction to Basuco a Colombian version of crack cocaine. The party's underlings through morphed into orgies before long it dawned on Carlos that he and he alone was the law on Norman's Cay but as collins was settling into his new role as a debaucherous dictator. George was back in the. Us hearing stories of his supposed partners astronomical success and in early one thousand nine hundred. Seventy eight George finally decided to do something about it. Coming up George and Carlos takeout hits on each other high listeners. Have you heard my new? Podcast series daily quote. It's a quick to three minute daily. Podcast aim to brighten your days and renew your outlook on life. Now more than ever self love and self care take top priority. Well we couldn't agree more. Every day on daily quote you'll be given a quote meant to motivate an uplift you'll also dive deeper into the context surrounding the quote learning more about its origin and the meaning behind it. It's impossible for me to choose a favorite quote so far perhaps because I'm just a little biased but we've already featured some incredibly inspirational quotes from a range of thoughtful people people like Nelson Mandela Truman capote Betty Smith Julia Child. And more whether you're jumpstarting the morning searching for that midday pick me up or trying to finish the evening off. Strong daily quote. Offer some of history's most inspirational quotes whenever you need them. The hundred sixty five days a year. Follow daily quote free on spotify or wherever. You get your podcasts now. Back to the story in early. Nineteen seventy eight thirty five year old. George Young decided to confront his duplicitous business partner. Twenty eight year old Carlos later George knew he'd been cut out of the cocaine trafficking operation they'd built together which George felt. He'd actually done the bulk of the work to create without Carlos even having the guts to tell him so george called his former sworn brother and told Carlos to meet him in Nassau. The two men met at the Holiday Inn vine the Bahamian capital the fanciest hotel in town and Carlos favorite sport before he even ordered a drink. Carlos knew what he tells George Sure. His soon to be ex partner wouldn't be happy but collars held all the power. Carlos laid out what he'd been up to for the last few months and how everything was set up for him to move on. George was appalled to find Carlos so blase about the whole thing. He didn't even seem sorry for lying leaving his partner. High and dry. The final Straw was college. His comment that Norman's Cay was his empire and there wasn't room for anyone else to help. Run it George. Lost it. He swore that Carlos would pay Carlos's ego and political ambitions. Made him think he was invincible. And George wanted to quash that he might have even swung at him if Carlos is to hulking. German bodyguards hadn't suddenly appeared as George was ushered out. Carlos just smiled. He wouldn't get his hands. Dirty bosses really do after that incident. Carlos figured he was done with George and turned his attention back to Norman's cay his trafficking business had become indispensable to both Pablo Escobar and his partners in the powerful or a family cocaine was pouring into the. Us and Carlos was taking home millions of dollars a week. But George who had a long road ahead to rebuild his own trafficking business. The constant praise for Carlos only stoked his resentment every time the Colombians introduced him as the guy who got Carlos into business. George felt he was losing their respect and his place in the industry. The only thing he could do was to prove that he too was indispensable to Pablo Escobar. It would require some sort of grand gesture something that would show. He wasn't afraid of the gossip or Carlos is growing power and so in late. One thousand nine hundred seventy eight. George got on a plane to medigene. George had seen his share fancy homes over the years but Pablo seven thousand Acre estate. Hacienda Napoli's was something else. It was armed to the teeth with machine gun. Toting men and the grounds were practically zoo with elephants and hippos wandering around. If the goal was to intimidate visitors hob blow had succeeded yet. Pablo was warm and welcoming. He wanted to meet George for a long time. It took guts for an American who only spoke basic Spanish to visit medicine and he was sympathetic. To Georgia's situation Pablo felt Carlos had wronged his former partner. That didn't mean he'd get involved in. The personal feud Pablo may not have liked Carlos. But he's still needed his services for the time being heat staying neutral still. The journey itself was enough to cement their relationship and show the industry that George still had. Pablo's blessing when George got back to Miami. He was pleased to find that. His stunt in Medellin jolted his business back to life. He contracted with new pilots new distributors and before long he was bringing in nearly as much as in the good old days but Kalos was still doing better. He was moving exponentially more cocaine and making exponentially more money and he was becoming a legend making a name for himself beyond just the Colombian circles. The general public started his stories about the crazy cocaine kingpin. Who owned the Lola's party island in the Bahamas and taunted the DA from afar all? The fanfare drove George Crazy. It just felt so unfair that all the work he done and all the messes he'd had to clean up. Carlos was the one who is a brilliant entrepreneur by nine thousand. Nine hundred seventy nine. George was still doing far. More than the estimated lethal amount of cocaine on a daily basis and his judgment was starting to become questionable at parties. He began boasting to his and meters friends which included associates of and Pablos that he was going to take a hit out on Carlos he was the reason for college is success and he promised that he could take it all away to as ensconced as he was in his. Norman's Cay Empire Carlos eventually heard about Georgia's threats at first. He dismissed them knowing that George was a veritable. Nobody now but when George kept talking smack Carlos started to get angry his ego which was getting bigger by the day couldn't stand someone else. Taking credit for his success. He was going to have to shut George up one afternoon. The Miami George got into his car only to realize heaping blocked in on three signs immediately. He knew something was wrong. He was a sitting duck for a gunman he reversed planning to plow through the small car behind him but then changed his mind. If that took too long it would still leave him exposed. He decided to make a break for it and jumped out of the car. He barely made it down the block when the car exploded had George stuck around any longer he would have died. Everyone agreed that Carlos must have been behind the car bombing. No one else had a reason to want George dead but instead of scaring George into submission the attempted murder only made him doubled down in fact it was the tipping point for him to finally follow through on his threats. George headed back to Boston. And early nineteen seventy nine and reconnected with a few mall. Guys he'd known from his Danbury days. They helped him put together. A team of military veterans to accompany him to Norman's cay where he wanted to carry out the hit in person. He wasn't sure if he actually wanted to kill Carlos but striking Carlos on his own territory would at least prove that George wouldn't be pushed around George gave them up team a one hundred and twenty five thousand dollar down payment to stuck up on grenades and bazookas to distract the guards while George took Carlos out himself but that was as far as the plot went when Umberto heard about the plans he scolded George for letting his emotions get the better of him. If he attacked Carlos it would start a war amongst the cartel in Colombia. That would get all of them and Umberto's family killed. George realized Burto was right. He was letting Carlos get in his head. His grudge had drawn him away from what he was best at smuggling drugs and making money let Carlos have his intrigue and Grand Schemes. George was done with that by nineteen eighty. George had refocused on his business and was doing well. He Mirta and their two daughters lived in a sprawling Mansion Cape Cod while his operation brought in millions of dollars a month but justice success had made Carlos Overconfident. It may george callous lavish lifestyle started to attract the attention of law enforcement in October. One Thousand Nine Hundred Eighty Cape. Cod police busted one of his party's and charged him with possession of eleven ounces of cocaine uninterested in doing ten years in prison George skipped bail and headed down to Florida with his family but life on the run wasn't as easy as it had been a decade earlier a year. Later in October eighty-one George was arrested in a traffic stop and sent back to Massachusetts to serve his time. Sure George was annoyed but he wasn't too worried he could afford a good lawyer and figured he'd be able to charm apologize his way out of a long sentence to be easy to jump back into business. Once he got out Carlos is luck was starting to change to right around the same time in. Nineteen eighty-one the corrupt Bahamian government including the prime minister. Who'd been on Carlos's payroll for years was starting to buckle under pressure from the? Us Government Bahamian. Prime Minister had held out and protected. It's drug traffickers for as long as possible but when the US started to publicize the extent of corruption in the Bahamas government. The prime minister caved soon. The Bahamas were cracking down on drug trafficking specifically focusing on Norman's Cay and the DA had one loss dimond to arrest and extradite Carlos. The Prime Minister reassured him. It wasn't personal which Carlos understood of course but it reminded him that his own success wasn't always the priority as one last favor the prime minister won't Carlos of the upcoming raids. Carlos had enough time to escape back to Colombia before law enforcement caught up with him as his airplane lifted off from his now empty island empire. Carlos tried to look on the bright side. Norman's Cay had been a nice distraction but it was time to get back to what mattered his political ambitions. Perhaps going back to Columbia was an opportunity in disguise. He had money and reputation. He could start laying the groundwork for the revolution he'd always wanted taking over. Columbia was the only way to prove he didn't have to bow to the DA. Once his country rallied behind him he would become an international figurehead. Unable to be pushed around. Coming up we'll find out how Carlos is Hubris ultimately brought him down and how George got the last laugh now back to the story at the end of Nineteen eighty-one thirty nine year old. George young and thirty two year old Carlos later had both fallen from their pedestals atop the cocaine trafficking industry while George spent the next few years in and out of prison. Kao's started building his next kingdom leading a successful revolution in war-torn Columbia was a tall order. The biggest problem was his main for Public. Support was also one of his closest business partners. Pablo ESCOBAR PABLO was popular powerful and successful and far less interested in the spotlight. Then in the success of his business he had worked hard to keep both his wealth and his cocaine operation from attracting attention instead cultivating a reputation as a self made Robin Hood. Who helped the poor? Carlos would have to work hard to match that reputation. His first step was create a home base a sprawling German style. Alpine resort called Persada Allamanah. Carlos poured three million dollars into Posada Mono- worth more than nine million dollars today. Having it constructed practically overnight if he couldn't have his island he wanted his ranch to be as impressive as Pablo's it also needed to serve as an effective base for trafficking operations which Were Still Humming a well oiled machine but Carlos also wanted Persona Allamanah to be an image to his idols. Hitler shake of Ara and now John Lennon Carlos had a garish life-sized naked statue of the recently murdered fetal built for the entrance to the estate. It was complete with a Nazi helmet. A bullet hole in the back and the Spanish word for peace on Lennon's hand to Carlos this all made perfect sense justice Carlos's profile was on the rise. Pablo Escobar announced a run for parliament. And then one Carlos decided. It was time to enact the next step of his plan. Carlos founded a Nazi inspired Nationalist Party the National Latin Movement. He began to hold grandiose rallies at which gave passionate speeches that parroted. Hitler's rhetoric Carlos focused on getting as much press as possible railing against the US and spouting every classic Nazi conspiracy theory. However he couldn't understand why his message about not extraditing drug criminals to the US wasn't getting wide support as Carlos was rallying the public US law enforcement hustled to build the case against him which had been open since Norman's Cay and what Carlos hadn't considered was how his showmanship might also embarrassed and annoy the Colombian government on September second nineteen eighty three. The Colombian Justice Minister signed the warrant for Carlos's arrest and extradition to the. Us barely two years. After his flight from Norman's Cay Carlos was once again forced to go into hiding this time in the haunt police Colombian furious at his own government's betrayal. Carlos had little to do except throw himself back into his cocaine trafficking operation. He knew how to bide his time. He would rebuild his empire under the radar and wait for the moment to reemerge but it had been years since Carlos had to manage the actual logistics of cocaine smuggling. It was a harsh wake-up call to realize he no longer had a monopoly on the market. He in George had pioneered now. Everyone was using private planes to smuggle cocaine to the US. Carlos is only advantages were his loyal relationships with Pablo and the Ocho. Us just twin. Carlos didn't think things could get worse. The Colombian justice minister was assassinated in April. One thousand nine hundred eighty four Pablo Escobar. Had the hit worried. That upstanding minister was becoming a threat. What Pablo hadn't considered was that he was declaring all out war on the Colombian government and that the government was going to retaliate. Suddenly Carlos. Pablo the OCHO. `As and all the rest of the cartel power players had targets on their backs. The government poured resources into the manhunt forcing all the kingpins to flee the country. Carlos thoughts escaping to Nicaragua might be better than hiding out in Columbia. He struck a deal with the Nicaraguan. Revolutionary guerillas known as the Sandinistas and got his smuggling flights going again from Nicaragua in base. But he still had his contacts in Colombia the Bahamas and the US as well as his reputation as one of the most reliable and effective traffickers in the game but being on the run proved hard for a narcissist like Carlos. He couldn't stand just disappear so instead of lying low he started his old preaching saying that Latin American countries shouldn't extradite to the US. He regularly contacted journalists published missives and went on the radio threatening Colombian and American officials alike. Kao's convinced himself that maintaining a high profile would help his business. It always had before but what he didn't realise was that it was now making him a liability to his partners as Carlos hopped around between Nicaragua Colombia and any country in the region who's dictator could be bought off. He found that his income was starting to struggle even though Pablo and all the others swore they were equal partners in the organization. Carlos couldn't shake the feeling that his stock was falling around the same time in one thousand nine hundred eighty five George was building his comeback. Yet again he escaped from prison and started planning one final trafficking job after several years behind bars. George had decided that he was ready to cash out of the drug industry for good all he needed was to get enough money to make it to Panama where his millions of dollars were stored in offshore accounts. Umberto promised him a three hundred kilo deal that would net him neely a million dollars. George contacted an acquaintance in Florida. A former keen to tap into drug money. He knew a couple of transport guys even better. The pilots hired had flown marijuana for George back in the late. Sixty s everything seems to be lining up and George had a good feeling in a couple months. He'd be basking on his own yacht in the Mediterranean but Georgia's luck had already run out the to transport. Guys were in fact undercover. Dea agents at first. They actually had no idea what George had been building over the past two decades and wouldn't have known had his old pilot buddy not told them as soon as the agents realize. George was one of the most well connected men in the cocaine trafficking world. They knew they'd hit the Jackpot that may on the day. Georgia's hoping to secure his escape. Money the a busted the whole operation. There was no talking his way onto the charges. This time George was sentenced to fifteen years in prison. There would be no payday in Panama and no quiet luxurious life on the Mediterranean. Just months into his sentence though. George heard through the prison grapevine that the FBI was hot on Carlos his tail and Mike cut a deal if someone could give them information. Naturally Georgia's old resentment bubbled up. He never been able to get back at Carlos for his betrayal. George had nothing left to lose so he contacted the FBI. The agents on the case were thrilled over the course of nearly two weeks. George told them everything he knew about his former friend and then he gave them an ace. He offered to personally help them catch Carlos. I the agents were wary of the offer. They've been chasing collars for years to no avail. It seemed unlikely George would do any better. But George countered. That Carlos was a man driven by his whims. He would come out into the open if he wanted to. And George knew exactly how to Bayton. The plan came together quickly the FBI would help. George set up a ruse that he'd been living lavishly in. The Caribbean word would get out to Carlos. Who'd have no reason to believe? George was involved with the feds George with then contact Carlos himself saying he had a hookup for a new business idea arms trading. He knew collars wouldn't be able to turn down such a lucrative opportunity which certainly appealed to his political delusions then when Carlos came to the meeting the FBI would arrest him. All the agents had to do was get the sign off from Washington. It would be a hard sell but if they wanted to get Carlos they were going to have to commit unbeknownst to the FBI. They weren't the only ones out to get Carlos in late. Nineteen eighty six. Carlos made a fatal mistake one day while hanging around at publicist estate townside medigene. He let his ego and machismo get the better of him. He shot one of Pablo's guys over meaningless argument to Pablo in the other cartel partners. It proved what they'd feared for a while. Carlos was an out of control liability by murdering one of Pablo's employees. He had just made himself. Expendable are on the morning of February. Fourth Nineteen eighty-seven while George in the FBI. Agents was still waiting for approval on their plan. Colombia law enforcement stormed Carlos. This estate outside many eating the Colombians wasted. No time in extraditing him and by that evening he was in. Da Custody in the US. Carlos was sure Pablo was the one who had given up his location although Pablo later wrote a public letter denying it. Caller swore up and down. He being framed but the DA wasn't interested. They had finally gotten their hands on one of the most wanted men in the world and they weren't letting him go. Carlos didn't stop trying to make a deal after all. That was always what he'd been best at that Spring before his trial. He wrote a letter to us. Vice President. George H W Bush. Who was leading Reagan so called war on drugs? Carlos offered to turn on the entire cocaine industry giving the US his full cooperation to bring in the other major players. Unfortunately Carlos the letter ended up in the newspaper which George obviously read though. He initially refused to testify against Carlos. There were still some honor amongst thieves after this. All questions of honor will off the table. Carlos certainly didn't have any so george reached out to Pablo before agreeing to testify against Carlos. He wanted to make sure he wasn't betraying the man who'd come to be known as the boss. Pablo immediately gave his blessing. George George went on to be one of the star witnesses in the trial against Carlos. His testimony was partially responsible for Carlos. His sentence of life without parole plus another one hundred and thirty five years. It took Carlos several years to find a loophole in order to strike deal and when he did it was by helping in the capture and conviction of Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega Carlos was then moved into witness protection and his whereabouts are currently unknown Georgia's cooperation. Meanwhile got him out of prison in nineteen thousand nine but as much as he swore to himself that he was going to live a nice quiet life. He can never quite give up on the adrenaline of drug smuggling. He got back into the cannabis business and ended up back in jail Massachusetts. Less than five years later. Perhaps if George in Carlos's partnership hadn't fallen apart they could have ridden the wave of their success for longer if they're early astronomical profits hadn't gone to their heads. They might have allowed their differing philosophies to complement each other rather than drive them apart but then people who is satisfied with the status quo. Don't become the most innovative entrepreneurial duo in the history of cocaine trafficking Georgian. Carlos always wanted more from their lives and were willing to gamble everything. In order to achieve their ambitions the truth that Georgia and Carlos discovered is that more often than not the gambler loses. It was a wild ride while it lasted but in the end the life that gave them ultimately took it all away. Thanks again for listening to kingpins for more information on George Young and college later. Rivas among the many sources we used we found Bruce Portas book blow extremely helpful to our research. You can find more episodes of kingpins. And all other podcast originals. For Free on spotify not only does spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals. Like kingpins for free from your phone. Desktop or smart speaker to stream kingpins on spotify just opening up and tied kingpins in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at park cast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time. Kingpins was created by Max Cutler and a podcast studios original executive produces include maxine Ron Cutler sound designed by Nick Johnson with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Travis Clark. This episode of kingpins was written by Kate. Stolman with writing assistance by Kate. Gallagher and starts cake Leonard and Alistair Murdoch.

Manuel Noriega Carlos George young cocaine George George Carlos Overconfident Pablo ESCOBAR PABLO US George Young Pablo Escobar partner Georgia Cay Empire Carlos Norman George Angrier Colombia George H W Bush Bahamas DA George Crazy spotify
The King of Cocaine Pt. 3: Pablo Escobar

Kingpins

45:27 min | 11 months ago

The King of Cocaine Pt. 3: Pablo Escobar

"Due to the graphic nature of this kingpins crimes listener discretion is advised this episode includes discussions of murder and torture that some people may find offense sieve we advise extreme caution for children under thirteen it was fall of nineteen fine Pablo Escobar control with the only weapons he knows best coercion bribery end violence series on Colombian drug Lord Pablo Escobar last week we witnessed Pablo's fall from multimillionaire Colombian congressman tradition to the United States he was on top of the world but everything unravelled when Pablo was exposed as a drug trafficker by his politic ndo mentally reviewing the cases on his docket while his driver navigated the heavy city traffic suddenly a motorcycle slipped between the Lane Bob blow and for Columbia over the next ten years hundreds of people by some estimates even thousands would die for defense to political pariah when his criminal history was exposed this week Pablo let's his facade of legitimacy drop away and takes is crime rings from street gangs to mafiosos to understand how a kingpin or Queen Pin rises to the top of the underworld laments the passenger lifted an AK47 and sprayed bullets into the back seat the assassins sped and why they fall as we followed the lives of infamous crime bosses will explore how money and power change them and how it changed the community kingpins for free on spotify just open the APP and type kingpins in the search bar at podcast we are grateful for you our listeners Pablo was thirty two years old in March nineteen eighty two when he won a seat in the Colombian Congress he was raking in millions of dollars. You allow us to do what we love let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network around them you can find episodes of kingpins and all other par- cast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to St Today's episode the best way to help us to leave a five star review wherever you're listening it really does help us this is the third episode in our four part ars every week from his cocaine empire and his congressional seat granted immunity from prosecution for he is a legal drug trade including protection from it Kohl rival Minister of Justice Rodrigo Lara in August nineteen eighty-three Laura supported the national newspaper El espectador Pablo Escobar the judge earned his death sentence by issuing a warrant for Pablo's arrest his assassination marked the beginning of a new era for way leaving the judge rapidly bleeding to death in the backseat his execution had been ordered by L. Petron cocaine kingpin means of gridlock vehicles and stopped right next to the judges window there were two people on the motorcycle their faces obscured behind tented when they published a damning article about Pablo's arrest for trafficking back in one thousand nine hundred seventy six the article destroyed Pablo's political rear end spawned new warrants for his arrest Pablo's political future imploded Laura called Congress to strip Pablo's congressional immune and I'm Kate Leonard and this is kingpins apart cast original every Friday we journey inside the ranks of Oregon urges against him El Tiempo the biggest National Colombian newspaper contextualized the gravity of Pablo's political position by asking how is democracy going to continue in Columbia if it is managed and manipulated by criminals but even in the face of national pressure Pablo refused to vacate his seat and give up his congressional immunity Pablo's fall was still swift less than a month after his first congressional already even a former ally of Pablo's Senator Alberto some to fee meal issued a public statement asking Pablo to quit politics and face the appearance Pablo was public enemy number one in Columbia his life and livelihood were endanger like they'd never been before and not just from Colombian authorities Columbia had signed an extradition treaty with the United States in one thousand nine hundred seventy nine it was is designed to allow the US to prosecute and imprison the Colombian drug traffickers or narcos responsible for the nonstop flow of cocaine and other drugs Breen Court with analyzing the legality of the extradition treaty while they deliberated extradition remained in limbo Pablo's nemesis eggs into the country but Colombian President Bilas Reo Beta couture was reluctant to act on the treaty he along with many officials didn't want the Minister of Justice Rodrigo Lara was ready to push that issue he told the press the more I learn the more I know of the damage that the other countries imposing their laws Columbia so instead of signing extradition orders President Bayton cour chose to filibuster he tasked the I wanNA traffickers including some members of the Medellin cartel and Pablo himself Pablo flexed back with his own lawyers narcos are causing the country I will never again refuse the extradition of one of these dogs after Lara exposed Pablo's trafficking activity as and demonstrated how Pablo's drug profits allowed him to buy his way out of jail public support for extradition increased and in October nine eighteen eighty three the Colombian supreme court ruled extradition legal extradition warrants were issued for several Colombian cocaine his life Pablo was running scared the possibility of a lifetime inside a US jail cell became more real with each passing day by February nineteen eighty-four he managed to get his extradition warrant withdrawn but it did little to ease his mind for the first time in strike first strike Pablo ordered the assassinations of the investigations leaders like the judge who issued his arrest warrant Laura many people remember him declaring. I would rather have a grave in Colombia than a jail cell in the United States men issued death threats to Laura's family over the phone Laura published more news stories about Pablo's history stealing cars but in March nineteen blow wasn't going down without a fight but Laura was up to the challenge into the spring of Nineteen eighty-four the two men matched in eighty four Laura and his partners in the DA got a big break and they used it to hit Pablo where it would hurt most his business approve da sponsored testing of new herbicides on coca feels destroying the plants and disrupting Pablo's pipeline Pablo had his hit name roughly translates to quiet land many people both in the cocaine trade and in law enforcement had heard something about Qalandia it was a legend for its fastness it's impressive manufacturing volume it significance as a symbol of Narko cooperation all city than a lab among the numerous facilities there was a school living bathing and dining facilities for several hundred workers and of course the lush green canopy the nearest road was over two hundred fifty miles away the impressive group of structures was called Frankie Land Lia the US or Caribbean islands in March nineteen eighty-four a crucial shipment of ether arrived from the lab supplier Chen but almost no one knew where to find it in the thousands of miles of untamed jungle trunkey Lonzo was one of the largest cocaine I ate busy airstrips planes were constantly landing with the raw materials needed to make cocaine including coca paste either in the southeast corner of the remote Colombian jungle near the Peruvian border was a vast compound hidden beneath and other chemicals the same planes would take off with loads of white powder cocaine bound for larger airports other labs for further Synthesis Phillipsburg New Jersey workers unloaded ninety five heavy metal drums off the plane rolling them directly into the lab they didn't know that labs in Columbia it was officially owned by Jose Gonzalo Rodriguez Gotcha a member of the median cartel but all the members contributed to Steve in just two Years Trang Alania had produced over twelve billion dollars worth of cocaine the enormous complex functioned more like a small Alania had finally been revealed the DA had been cunning to use ether as their entree in one thousand nine hundred eighty four for only seven companies in the world producing ether each of those companies was targeted with wiretaps and undercover agents until the cartels plyer was revealed once the guilty company was facing criminal charges they were more than happy to slip a few transponders into their product thick jungle once the invading officers realized that trank Alania offered little by way of security they put down their guns and picked up a few days later on March Tenth Nineteen eighty-four Several helicopters descended on Tranquilli India heavily armed officers find everything left behind was burned the entire compound smoldered the belongings of hundreds of workers one of the sons of cocaine worth approximately one point two billion dollars it was the largest cocaine seizure ever completed the bus work available was hard labor that paid about a dollar per week an assassination like Laura's looked like the doorway to a new life not only kind specially designed chemical equipment several airplanes twelve thousand drums of chemicals and over fifteen defected the world's supply so severely that up in Miami addicts had to spend a little more to get their coq fix after the machine gun fire on the ground it was chaos some of the workers quickly submitted to arrest others fled directly into the five hundred thousand dollars for his murder the barrios of medicine were full of young men who hunger to work for L. Petron when most her for another high profile motorcycle murder that method of assassination had become so common it had its own name Pari Gyro and Columbia his legend as the hero of the underdogs was stronger than ever Pablo had no problem finding someone to fulfil his order Colombian national police left from the helicopters before they even landed one of the helicopters remained airborne spraying Cranky Alania with Yup cameras the DA and Colombian authorities wanted evidence that could be used in court to sentence drug traffickers like Pablo to life and but it sat beside him on the seat he knew if Pablo Sakarov came for him it wouldn't do him any good he was right the in the morning strategizing with his cabinet the public assassination of the Minister of Justice made Columbia look lawless right now up next Pablo Escobar goes to war with the Colombian government if they drove the four hundred and eighteen kilometers to Bogota overnight then spent the next day searching the city for Lara in the up ahead and traffic they finally sought a gleaming white limo the windows were heavily tinted but they knew who was inside Laura sat in the air conditioned back seat there had been so many threats on his life the US State Department had supplied him with a bulletproof vest the inside two of the drums tiny transponders related their location all the way back to the DA the secret location of traffic bullies masterminds mustache twirler 's for every hero there is a villain the new podcast Orgin Urgen Mary into his underwear the other tucked a Mac ten into his jacket at seven pm they climbed onto a Yamaha motorbike and sped off in all villains explores the psychological political and emotional factors that spawned both real and fictional villains every Friday Laura was shot seven times he died instantly that night Colombian President Baytown Cour stayed up until three eight villains focuses on a different real or fictional evil doer for fictional villains you'll delve into the social influences that led to that character completely ease the workers were arrested and sent back to Bogota for processing the DA Colombian officials collected all the paperwork they could turn noon they heard Laura was traveling in a white Mercedes Benz limousine that evening the sicario sped through the streets of Bogota isn or even death they photographed and videotaped state of the art facilities in airplane hangars right alongside the primitive living conditions of the overweight is the work profitable but there was honor and working for L. Patrol on now Pablo was openly battling with two hostile governments the United States now back to the story in April of nineteen eighty four thirty four years Richard Kuklinski and the coed killer Ed Kemper some are fictional some are real all our villains oh which roughly translates to barbecue on April twenty ninth nineteen eighty-four two young men on a mission hello villains for free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts or visit podcast dot com slash villains to listen now the creation for real villains you'll learn the true story of their dark deeds and we'll explain what drove them to evil you'll hear Lumbia no choice if they wanted to maintain law and order they had to eliminate the man who so openly defied their authority L. Petron obstruction of trunk Yolanda the medein cartel didn't waste any more time in striking back they put out a hit on Rodrigo. Lara offering Pablo began a systematic attack approaching every bureaucrat he could reach with the same message plotter ope Lomo in the summer of military but he wasn't going to take a hit to his freedom and business lying down he knew that the Colombian justice system was live to dismiss Pablo's charges the judge was told asked for whatever you want and they'll put it wherever you want it in Colombia or outside the money and cooperate or you're dead but the judge didn't bite he refused the bribe the plaza that meant he would be getting almo- lead of you days later five men opened fire on that same judge as he was entering a taxi he was eighteen eighty four the judge who indicted Pablo for Laura's murder was leaving his courthouse a well dressed man approached him he offered the judge recycle stopped in front of a shrine to Santa Maria Auxiliary Dora near Medina they both said a prayer for luck one tucked a prayer card of the on the radio for an emergency broadcast he identified drugs as the most serious problem Columbia has had in its history moving forward is now being pursued by his own government US Customs the DA the coastguard federal police state police and the United States ready to prosecute and imprison the Colombian narcos funneling drugs north and Pablo was on top of their hit list Pablo just one of many some judges were presented with photographs of their children or wives during their daily routine some received death threats in the mail Pablo Escobar now not only was the Colombian government hell bent on taking down traffickers but the United States finally had the authority notable to corruption if he had all the judges in his pocket none of them would be willing to serve indictments against him or is close allies so episodes on characters like Don Vito Corleone and no country for old man's Anton sugar as well as real life villains like the ice man let's to show that they weren't an assassin trying to hide their face in the fall of Nineteen eighty-four an empty car board President Baytown Cooler would speed up extraditions to the United States Pablo's government was no longer protecting him oh Pablo Escobar held more power in the public eye than the president and that would not be tolerated president beaten courier Arken citizens journalist Mark Bodin Rights Pablo's policy of Plateau Palomo became so notoriously effective that it roll toward the US embassy in the middle of the afternoon it hit a curb and exploded blocks away windows rattled and bill rolled Pablo Escobar ordered the assassination of his Nemesis Minister of Justice Rodrigo Lara Laura's murder left the government of color l. many were murdered then Pablo's reign of terror expanded from law enforcement two informants to Amir voice telling him he was going to die the sounds of motorcycle engines became sources of sudden fear innocent writers stopped wearing help embassy staff was stripped down to a skeleton crew their children traveled to school in a caravan of jeeps mounted with machineguns diplomats moved the country then you can relax neither your life nor the lives of your family members will be in danger this subtext was clear take on the country in Armored Vehicles Pablo contracted a team of hit men to kidnap key DEA agents running the investigation against him would automatically threatened to undermine Colombia's democracy when President Beta uncork picked up his private telephone he often heard a low gravelly his most trusted allies it was where he felt most in control and most at home Pablo was far from giving up polity ran out Pablo got word that Noriega was in talks with the United States government and using Pablo surrender as a bargaining chip nine on his neck red killed for being a DA informant while Columbia existed in a state of Ancia one informants body was found with pins sticking out from under each of his fingernails and a bullet hole in his head. General Manuel Noriega Pablo slept in late and played soccer on the golf course in the afternoons he still ran his business from the lecture the honeymoon was over at the beginning of Nineteen eighty-five Pablo returned to Columbia even though his enemies were there so were soon after that the DA shut down their office in Medellin Colombia working with the DEA were punished in the brutal tradition of Laviola of his mansion by the end of Nineteen eighty-four it looked like Pablo had the upper hand but then general Noriega's hospital things shook flames shot three hundred feet into the air six people were injured and one person was killed after the car bomb terror Pablo and his family were hiding out in a borrowed mansion in Panama next to a golf resort they were the guests of Panama's dictator the three in Bogota the capital city of Columbia a finely dressed judge road in the back seat of a dusty sedan he gazed out the Boden Pablo saw his fate and Columbia's as the same and as notorious as he became he never in many ways returning to his home country demonstrated a renewed dedication to the fight his mindset is well summed up by journalists Mark uh-huh for free on spotify and anywhere you listen to podcasts them although he was defending his own freedom he also couldn't stand that another country was imposing its laws on Columbia it made even with everyone on edge Pablo still commanded respect when he stood up to speak the crowd went silent early extradited six traffickers and nine others were being held in Colombian jails awaiting transport the same fate awaited anyone aide Hacienda Annapolis this time the group assembled on a rural farm called the circle no amenities just business at the meeting there were over two hundred bodyguards who came with all the toys meaning guns lots of guns but was clear take my ideal or come and get me go ahead try it the Colombian government declined Pablo's offer in the fall of ninety bodyguard's though of course anyone who stood up to him was a dead man walking Pablo was flexing the message to Colombian authorities Lumbia look weak and it made the United States into some kind of moral savior he fired up the crowd and they all adopted his own mantra problem limited attendance to just VIP's No small-time smugglers he only wanted people he knew he could trust people of back and forth on whether Pablo actually did offer to pay off the national debt however the fact that many believed he made this offer and that he could he would dismantle his trafficking organization and turn over the bulk of his money to help pay down the national debt which at the time was probably around intend billion dollars he would even consider a brief prison sentence but only in Columbia we should note here that there's a lot couldn't accidentally stop the bullet the group called themselves the extraditables many of the leaders pledged money and their own SICARIO is oh had brought them together to discuss an issue that affected them all extradition by September nineteen eighty five the United States said success a friend than the last time he summoned them together after Martha Ocho is kidnapping in Nineteen eighty-one instead of gathering everyone at his luxurious estate toward the 'cause once again Pablo had created his own army that night in September of nineteen eighty five Pablo called another meeting of all the medicine cartel leaders the tone was a little bit Laghouat as much to lose as he did even so the atmosphere was understandably tents for the seventy cartel member better a grave in Colombia than a jail cell in the United States Pablo proposed a blood pact everyone pledged to commit suicide and throwing a massive Christening party for his daughter Manuela who was born in Panama on May Twenty Fifth Nineteen eighty-four he's still traveled with an entourage of armed Ford to back it up is telling enough of the kind of reputation Pablo enjoyed at the time Pablo was living freely in Michigan attending bullfights for now two weeks later Pablo found out what ignited the raid on the circle a member of the Mercedes Roberto was rattled no one delivered flowers after midnight especially not in a Mercedes but he shrugged it off as he told Roberto about his plans for the extraditables he drank coffee and a cake. Pablo and Roberto startled at the no one can now back to the story Pablo Escobar was at a new low in September of Ninety Z. Pablo could always be depended upon to keep a cool head a few minutes after they were done dodging bullets he could get everyone but even that couldn't save him up next Pablo ratchets up the violence if he can't be safe in eighty five it was extradition or nothing Pablo dug in his heels time to take this war up a notch arrival Cali cartel had been present during the gathering the Cali cartel member had alerted the government to Pablo's position hoping the brothers continued talking and eating for a few hours until a terrible sound made them freeze gunshots right before allowing themselves to be captured by Americans they agreed on a preferred method a gun shot right behind the year where the skull door he told the gorgeous woman that she had the wrong address there was no Dr Hernandez here she apologized and drove off in her pristine gunfire faded behind them many people kept running but Pablo slowed to a walk telling them you guys are going to kill yourselves running where you can't against it the United States would have to cease extradition Pablo's set the extraditables to the task of swinging the judges opinions laughing after walking all night the group came upon another of Pablo's bodyguards who had managed to escape by car they were safe one of the bullets grazed Roberto some of the body guards in farmworkers took off to running barefoot in their pajamas or underwear even as the to secure their own immunity from extradition by giving up Pablo Pablo sense of security was shattered in a group of men he thought we're all his guests left Kabo relaxed at the circle with his brother Roberto Pablo was feeling secure and powerful invincible even we are capable of anything absolutely everything one judge with a heart condition received a tiny coffin person the other end said we know where she is the pressure increased every day but despite the threats the justices remain have supposed we know exactly where they are we will do away with your entire family we have no compassion whatsoever precedings in just a few minutes they would rule on extradition suddenly the courtroom doors opened and guerrillas we're friends all it took was one trader to almost ruin him the rest of his life would be spent in a state of high paranoia for to turn himself in it was time for the extraditables to show their teeth. Although the Colombian Supreme Court had ruled extradition legal aimed steadfast all the Intel coming out of the court was that the judges plan to uphold the treaty extraordinary measures were called analyzed with his name when another judge's daughter was about to undergo an operation the hospital phone rang the throaty voice gallery rush down to the floor pulling guns from under their clothes in fact they weren't civilians they were guerrillas in disguise the judges all received threatening letters we declare war against you we declare war against the members of your family as you may have lawyers and staff hostage the security guards were already dead the guerrillas blocked all of the exits with furniture disassembled in the Protocol Salon of the National Palace the Colombian National Anthem was playing to signal the start of judicial eighteen eighty five he had been run off his own farm in the middle of the night escaping by the skin of his teeth the Colombian government had refused his Kabila when Roberto didn't wait to find out who was firing they just ran blindly into the pitch black wilderness behind the circle the shots continued Atlanta Ctober nineteen eighty-three the issue was being brought before the Supreme Court again in the fall of nineteen eighty five if the court ruled m nineteen after that affair had been completed now working under contract for Pablo M nineteen took three hundred supreme court judges sound of someone at the door it was after midnight there was no reason for anyone to be on the property a bodyguard reported that there was a beautiful well dressed woman at the door she arrived in a Mercedes and claimed she was there to deliver flowers to Dr Hernandez Roberto went to the the records that could put him in prison in the United States were burning of course so was a building full of exhausted hysterical dressed in green army fatigues stormed in they were armed to the teeth with machineguns rifles and grenades civilians in the were destroyed he couldn't be extradited by the second day of the siege all attempts at hostage negotiation had failed at one back the day ended with guerrillas in control of the building the entire nation including Pablo watched the situation live on television extradition and in the next breath wanted President Bayton core prosecuted for reneging on his promise to achieve peace takers a tank smashed through a wall of the building finally allowing the troops access to the inside the guerrillas used live hostile his primary goal was actually much more simple the destruction of the evidence supporting his own personal extradition if the records Asian he was waiting for one thing fire although Pablo hope the occupation of the building would change the ruling on extradition there's rocket launchers and snipers the military launched rockets into the historic judicial building blasting holes into the wall live smoke started to billow out from the upper levels of the building watching at home Pablo made a rare show of emotion he smiled ostriches and guerrillas everyone crammed into a bathroom on the first floor a shelter from the flames Pablo's reign of terror head had the desired effect yet again Pablo maintain the upper hand with pure violence you're on November sixth nineteen thousand five the twenty four Supreme Court just over a hundred people died in about a dozen were missing and never found eleven supreme court justices were among the dead the Colombian police and military responded to the hostage situation hundreds of troops arrived in tanks and helicopters with grenade launcher and mounted their machine guns on top of the piles they made demands ranging from the predictable to the absurd they demanded the prohibition of surviving judges criticized President Bayton cores lack of effort to negotiate and the final ruling on extradition was delayed indefinitely so they snuck into the building the day before and slept there overnight to be optimally placed for the occupation in the morning Pablo had enlisted the next morning President Bayton cour still refused to negotiate instead he authorized a full military assault on the hostile US lawyers and judges were reported daily Guillermo Kono Isaza wrote in the national newspaper El espectador the help of m nineteen the same guerrilla group that kidnapped Martha show up back in one thousand nine hundred eighty one he had built up a good relationship with ca intercepted there were five more that went through at this point he was smuggling about twenty million dollars worth of cocaine in throughout nineteen eighty-six he used the same plateau aplomb oh tactics to keep the justice system in line the murder of rebellious journals Dr dropped troops onto the roof only to be hit with guerrillas sniper fire through the skylights the fighting was fierce but police were ultimately the indictment including El espectador the papers director Guillermo Cano Isaza had remained an outspoken critic of the cartel they went public with an indictment of all the leaders of the Midi gain cartel including Pablo newspapers all over Colombia covered being more drug shipments during nineteen eighty six than they ever had before they were barely making a dent in Pablo's business for every shipment the multiple residences always surrounded by a tight group of bodyguards Pablo owned about twenty taxis and medicine which us tells thousands attended the slain journalists funeral the day after his death the newspaper ran the headline Sigi Mos just as human shields as they tried to escape soon the building was overrun by the military the siege was over all told point there was a working phone line but all the gunfire and explosions made communication impossible at seven PM on November sixth nineteen eighty-four but something was changing in the beginning of nineteen eighty seven more and more people were beginning to openly speak against the cartel it had become a death sentence in Columbia Konno's blood sprayed all over his family's Christmas Ruari fourth nineteen eighty seven Medellin cartel leader Carlos later was arrested near Rio Negro Columbia some sort Allante we go on although Pablo and Colombian and US authorities continued to strike at each other tit for tat since anyone might expect this much death to wear down the people of Colombia into a numb state of inaction in the back seat of his station Wagon Christmas presents he bought for his family on his lunch break he was waiting to make a left turn when he heard the sound on swell of public opposition to the cartel made the fight feel different it finally looked like the tides might be turning against the narcos on during nineteen eighty-six Pablo kept living it up and met with his family he went out to clubs and hosted parties fifth nineteen eighty-seven the Colombian Supreme Court ruled that extradition law had been ratified unconstitutionally. It was a win on this is say that Pablo gave up later in order to curry favor with authorities whether that's true or not the arrest did not look good for Pablo realized what was happening they fired back and killed one of the SICARIO does not only had Pablo's mission failed but it had been foiled and things got even better for Pablo due to lack of evidence an improperly obtained evidence his indictments for the murders of journal each shipment but the government dealt Pablo a severe blow on November seventeenth one thousand nine hundred eighty six about two weeks before his thirty seventh birthday used for transportation since all vehicles were identical it was difficult track Pablo's movements around the city although the DA was bust dating back to the nineteen seventies and all the pertinent witnesses had been killed for the first time in four years it really the People Pablo claimed he was serving on New Year's Eve nineteen eighty seven Pablo should have been celebrating his victories he was welcome on Pablo's orders they were there to take Martinez hostage to use as leverage in negotiations with the government but when Martinez neighbors old Manuela and eleven year old Juan Pablo to sleep in a steel reinforced multistorey complex called Monaco hobble referred you're it seems we have decided to live with crime and declare ourselves defeated the drug cartel has taken over Columbia he was fighting for the people of Colombia that gave him purpose power and authority but now his nation's love for him he looked like he was going to be off the hook but even though his legal troubles were fading away Pablo had lost something he always seem to be draining away if felt like the very

Roberto Pablo Pablo Escobar Pablo Pablo Pablo General Manuel Noriega Pablo Juan Pablo Colombian Supreme Court Colombia United States murder Colombian Congress Columbia facebook spotify congressman soccer bribery Lara Columbia
Foreign correspondent Peter Copeland shares stories & lessons

Jazzed About Work

41:18 min | 11 months ago

Foreign correspondent Peter Copeland shares stories & lessons

"This podcast is brought to you by the Voinovich School of Leadership and Public Affairs at Ohio University Hi Everyone I'm Bev Jones and this is just about work where we talk about everything that might happen chasing stories and also talk a little bit about the challenges of reporting in today's difficult market world and given him opportunities to manage news businesses across all kinds of platforms Peter's latest book is both a personal story your book which I loved the book is finding the news adventures of a young reporter and I I learned a lot and totally enjoyed hearing about your adventures they started back when you were a cub reporter in Chicago and one of the things that fascinated me right from the beginning is you union organizing something like that I I didn't know and I was working a summer job up in northern Michigan I met a man who juggle his personal life his family live and all of the pressures of being a reporter he'll talk about how through trial and error owned by the Tribune at the time and it was a training ground it was sort of a boot camp for journalist they assigned me to a more experienced reporter and I showed her Peter Thank you so much for joining us here today on guest about work and also talking about and sometimes in war zones or other challenging situations he struggled to be fast accurate and fair and he'll share lessons learned from a lifetime very committed journalism could you tell us about how you sort of fell in love with journalism and and what you were doing a cub reporter I on my I had never studied journalism so they assigned me to a young reporter at the city news bureau of Chicago which was a wire service info with my life and I I wanted to do something important but I didn't know what it was I I thought maybe I would go into political action or who had this opportunity to be a reporter and it's like something hit you you you became born again it felt like for four days that was pretty much the extent of my training she said Okay you're on your own now and I was walking middle of winter in Chicago Chicago Tribune and said you know if you'd like to try journalism you should he said what you're interested in is what journalists do so worry and a valuable guide to the best practices and journalism the book is finding the news adventures of a young reporter I I gave it a try I mean that was such fortunate break that I got I wish that something like that could happen to everybody you were so lucky yes yes and you hear Peter tells the story about how he became a reporter and how he learned the journalism values that matter more than ever and how yet did bribed yourself as kind of an ordinary okay student kind of interested in politics not very career driven all of a sudden you it took an interest in me and my future and saw something in me that I hadn't seen and he turned out was the publisher of the phones before the Internet I ran as fast as I could to the smoke got there before really the fire engine Scott there they were just the the big shot reporter right and he looks at me pathetic son he says I'm not the chief of the chaplain and but a bunch of other reporters arrived at that point and they had a TV camera that was on they were they were taping so I'll go one of those really cold days and I saw smoke from to the West where I was and I call the office and I said is there a fire in uptown had worked a little bit as a college newspaper reporter but only for semester two and when I got out of school all I knew I wanted to do something me I could think of ran looked for a phone to call the office because the oh the woman who trained me she said the most important thing is you've got to get the story in it doesn't matter what you know do not hear me what I'm telling I need to know how many how many firemen are responding and so I said okay what's a truck what's a bumper Erin police radios were going we had these teletype machines said clack and dinged but I heard this voice over the coming up as I arrived and the there was an apartment building that was in flames I I saw people hanging out the window trying to get away from the heat and they were they were dropping she didn't speak much English I could tell from the way she looked at me but I made a phone gesture with my hand she pointed to the phone call the office they said Okay we're going to give rewrite and I waited in woman picked up and she said this is Hollywood if you've got an I I started like hyperventilating people jumping all news radio station that they also kept on at full blast and it was a story reading a journalist reading story about the fire and it was riveting to read I was thinking you know this could go either way for a lot of people this would be the worst day at work ever did you have some of those feelings right up until you heard the story or did you just know as soon as you started running around that the chief all of a sudden starts behaving like the firefighters that you see on TV and he's talking about the how it started and what's happening where the it coming back at me it was a complete rush and from that minute really I was hooked so as you're telling that story and I was kind of riveting there's something to this I'll actually tell you about another young reporter who in a similar situation. He was an intern working for me when I was how a grownup Washington bureau chief and on the day of nine eleven he was a New Yorker who was in Washington as an intern a college intern his mother and his grandparents were journalists and it was in his blood he was destined to be a reporter undergoing all these questions at Holly had asked me to get a God the story filed everything when I finally went back to the office what you've seen unless you could file the story you have to tell everybody else that's your job so I- i- banged on doors until the woman let me in and I sent him up to New York to cover the story there because we had people in Washington covering the story at the Pentagon and elsewhere a story like that then you should really not do journalism that it's not for you it's not for everyone and luckily he pivoted and babies down and small children down to people below the four stories below at who are catching them and everyone was screaming and the fire was popping about no wonder that start what was the address I didn't even know the address of the building okay I wrote Donald these questions go go find the chief okay so I ran out they said Yep it's coming in over the radio now go and they were listening to the police and fire radio in the office and I I I didn't have this was in the days of Yes because the place where I started city news was a legendary boot camp that trained great journalists and the culture was so strong and so pure that you couldn't help but pick it up so embarrassed so I ran over I found this other guy who's a chief who is wearing white hat he was the actual chief he starts screaming at me to get the F. away from he started to he got up there he started ask people questions and he couldn't do it he he said I I feel like saw this guy she told me the chief chief will be wearing white hat so I I saw this guy without a white hat on a little Ray Jeff what do we got here and went back to school studied finance he became very successful he's very happy he doesn't regretted at all but it wasn't for him for some reason it was for me it's not forever the trucks are the ones with ladders pumpers of the ones with hoses case I look out the window I called called told her what I saw and then she asked me all these questions they're suffering and I'm intruding I it just doesn't feel right to me and I told him after I said if if you don't feel good covering it you just watch and try to imitate what other people are doing and that way you pick up the skills but also more deeply it's sort of like joining the marines or some austere religious order that they don't even have to tell you the rules because you absorb them and ear and get the f out of his life and he's got a fire his guys are inside so get Outta here at the at this point I'm just shriveling up oh my goodness out of the building their their their babies being tossed there's people dragging themselves through the snows you wait wait wait how many trucks how many pumpers for me kind of sitting back and watching intently I wanted to be able to talk to but what I think is so there was this chaos in the office all the time especially when a big story was happening like this fire was big and everyone was yelling at each other and the typewriters were clanging in the fire from home usually alone often in a scary place but the bonding though we have is beyond anything else it a thunderbolt that tells them there's there's something important here there's a mission did did you start to get a sense of mission this early it was going and maybe covering some sort of local government meeting or some kind of issue and how intense that I see with young journalists where they make shift is somehow they realize it's important that they get almost the values and everybody thought that it mattered it mattered more than anything my husband the journalists sometimes trying to explain local paper you've got to get out and work your way up and then maybe one day you can come back to Chicago and so you you took a job in El Paso which of course is on the order and you sort of edged into thinking like a forest foreign correspondent as you learned Spanish is that right values become so much part of you that that they drive everything is that how you feel yes and I I felt that and then they're in that religion there are sex okay there's a sector police reporters their superintendents there's a second and then convinced the paper which really also is completely lucky and sounds like a story from another time convinced the paper that they needed a bureau and I could tell from the words that it was my story that I had filed to holly and I thought Oh this is so great because this is like my own story how was that I am surprisingly maybe I guess a lot of reporters are introverts winging the smoke was blinding I was overwhelmed but I just ran towards the building and I I was taking notes got everything you were not only speaking Spanish but you wrote that when you spoke Spanish it major feel like another person what I always wanted to do is I wanted to to fix things I wanted to speak up I wanted to enter the dialogue and I thought you know this this isn't it's partly because of the danger and the loneliness you gravitate towards other people that are in the same situation and they can be reporters from anywhere in the world any age any media it doesn't it's the the mission that we share that brings you together so was El Paso was like this window on Latin America was right on the edge of were the United States touches Latin America and to me it was the past us to the south and I I spent two years in El Paso and fell in love with the language and the culture and learning new things the whole job for an introvert that's difficult sometimes there was something about Spanish and maybe a Mexican culture copy editors their intense in a different way I got the joined the sect of foreign correspondents who are the ones that are far of people thinking oh he can't speak Spanish because he's a white guy from Chicago and then when I did they were thrilled and there were older women stories in Spanish and that helped to but I will say that there was some tension at the paper because I was and I he ended up becoming one of my great teachers but it was it was awkward for awhile it must have been a bit awkward and I fortunately I wasn't afraid of making mistakes one of the weaknesses people have learning a second language is that they're ashamed of making mistakes then this again white guy from Chicago I was taking Spanish I convinced the paper to give me a couple of weeks off so I could go to Mexico City and study oh absolutely I I I had to learn how to transmit stories from abroad and also how to basically that's not fair why don't you send me to London so I can learn English better as a joke but I got the point order named Joel Vera at the paper who was actually more experienced at journalism than I was and had grown up on the border and was bilingual bicultural he said Spanish and I paid for my own way I paid for the classes but the paper gave me the time off there was a Mexican American the way you became a foreign correspondent the path from Chicago was it at some point somebody told you you've got to get out to a lot that felt lighter to me and lighter in the in the sense of not being such a burden I didn't feel so constricted the funny thing about El Paso is for most people for centuries it was the path going north it was the city on the border was called all in right for you but you also must have some facility with language could you started pretty much cold didn't you you didn't know Spanish and all of a sudden pretty the people who do fall for it fall deeply and forever I I know what you mean I was a journalism student and for me Chicago and I covered some big stories on the border with immigration and drug-trafficking but the idea that you were going to cover an entire country and really an entire region because a two starting out in Mexico City as a bureau chief you didn't have an infrastructure to support you and you were doing a lot of things professionally but you had some fun in Mexico City and that's where you met your wife that's a nice story cover an entire country that was the that was the hardest scariest part covered car accidents and fires and press conferences I covered the mayor of in at the paper who loved the fact that I was trying to learn Spanish and they tutored me and the more time I spent speaking Spanish the better at it I got and then I started to get not only was this a a foreign culture and language you're still learning but you were still learning how to manage the process weren't you propelled grenade things like that because I was covering the wars in Central America I didn't really know how to speak about my feelings or my my heart I went to the movies I I sat down got my popcorn looked around I noticed there was this beautiful woman behind me and I kept thinking in Mexico City and that I should be the bureau chief and they bought it that's amazing you are a lucky guy some things just have nine to people why he's a journalist for life regardless of what he's doing is a job at this particular moment and he said think of it as a religion that the that everybody knew about except me and I was going to be embarrassed because I was going to get beat on a story in my own territory so you were ever learn the only way you learn is when you speak you can't just learn listening so I I'd love speaking Spanish and and I got a kick out of had all of Latin America and the Caribbean might beat that was overwhelming and I I could never relax because I always felt something was probably happening somewhere an impact on your career I guess today is Distinguished Journalists Editor and author Peter Copeland his career has taken him around butter during the movie I glanced back a couple times I thought she's probably waiting for somebody because she's very attractive and nobody showed up let them believe that my Spanish was better than it was and at that point sort of after being almost a year Mexico City I was very good in Spanish about ambush rocket I saw her again she was waiting for a bus the woman from the movie theater and I thought this is this a sign go do something probably got a boyfriend it's too complicated I embarrassed and Mahboba the typical male female thing it wasn't really about I when I first moved there I didn't have any friends and to be honest I kind of fit about my Spanish at but a and we force ourselves to be out there and we know it it's good for ourselves to be out there and asking people questions the the job is you have to meet New People and ask them questions the city is fabulous it's it's all lighted up and buzzing all the time and their people out walking and arm-in-arm and There are something is kind of practice some witty remark in my lame Spanish get up to her about to open my mouth I chickened out I thought modern office buildings mixed in with colonial style buildings big palm trees it's beautiful standing there taking it all in two it's a fall night so I went to the movies I went to the movies by myself that that tells you my situation Mexico either working or I was alone so I essays Mexico at that point it was just a man and a woman and we were young so I went outside and I was admiring the city it's a mess she was bouncing her leg and kind of nervous I thought Scott Waiting for somebody but the movie ends she still alone I thought up on a goal also the North Bay it was the path of people coming from the area that's now Mexico up into what's now the United States for me it was the opposite it so I I ran across the street and I realized running across the street that she was waiting for a bus but there were two cars lined up in front of her and these guys leaning out of the cars and going almost Sita Mansudae they were trying to get Edita gave her trying to offer a right but it wasn't it wasn't wasn't nicely done you know more and more information about what was happening I was responding I wanted motto to help me my wife to help me do the story because it was overwhelming she thought I was Being cold and callous and could I not see how everyone was suffering and including her and so I've resigned myself that this was some sort of difference and the we'll be back with Bev after this brief message it grew than the longer we were together and then when we had children especially I felt this terrible I almost fainted it was so moment and we've been together now for thirty years in Ohio University can give you the skills to do just that the school offers a multidisciplinary approach where public policy the years of of of of travel and long hours the first time it hit home was when the earthquake hit Mexico City in nineteen eighty five you have this wonderful romance which has helped to shape your life and that's often at odds with the UH that it takes to get something right even if it means going into a war zone or other scary place and working long hours so that's the one hand on the other hand are you ready to make a difference in the world the Voinovich School of Leadership and public affairs intensity that a foreign correspondent has to have how did you manage that is that something you were consciously dealing with all of your Gratien or environmental studies by visiting Ohio Dot Edu slash one of at school tug between my responsibilities to her and our children and my responsibility to the job they never were lined up it was always and I was covering the story living there but to me it was a story and it was a big story and there was a lot of pressure from the United States for the Environmental Studies in Entrepreneurship come together to educate tomorrow's leaders learn more about the master's in public administer I I it's okay if you stay with me thank you and the the guys drove away we started talking and she said you know do you have any friends that Mexican one of the things that comes across in your writing is that mecum you go home she's just started laughing at that point she was actually laughing real laugh and she said yes just male friends I said what would you be my Amiga and she said an kantar which is like love to I and there there was no work life balance it was just the work it's a it's a challenge that is one or the other and I I felt there was sort of a work life balance but when a big story happening I was sent the scale broke so it it it is a challenge I thought you Showdon in the book how you have to intense so on the one hand you are passionate about journalists about telling the story about doing everything city in Spanish she said Amigos and I said yeah a few and she goes she says Amigos are Amigas male friends or women friends and I said no just they were I didn't think they were going to kidnap her but they were bothering her I went over tapped on the shoulder and she jumped up like a foot and I think many pupil deal with but when you're going into danger and when you're leaving and nobody knows when you're coming back or passions and and you been able to navigate them so you did some really tough reporting and Latin America and then from there it's okay it's okay and I I said in Spanish I meant to say a mental offer my assistance ended up saying something like the boss I wait what's going to happen and in some ways it's even scarier I think than some people in the armed forces 'cause you don't necessarily have the structure and the information system are they sent you to to Washington to cover the Pentagon and it you wrote in in the book that when you found yourself at the Pentagon again all right bye-bye By the time I was draft age the draft was ending so I I missed military service when I was assigned to cover did that work out I had never been in the military didn't really have many friends that were in the military I was born after Vietnam in a very faren situation you decided to cover your new beat cover a strange new country had the Pentagon I I thought I'll just read a few books and interview people and but I was thrown into it right away Ange they have a very strict social hierarchy like any society and so it all kind of made sense if I could treat this the big story about the United States shooting down planes over Libya I was way in over my head but then when I step back and as a foreign place that I was visiting and try to learn about and I always went to foreign places with excitement and thought about it I thought well these are people who they all wear uniforms like local costume they have their own way of speaking lots of acronyms like their online interest and an open questioning mind it worked perfectly I I didn't have any preconceptions I didn't have any judgments about them I really was just trying to be receptive and but it will my knowledge was so limited that I I had to make a chart of all of the ranks accuracy matters immensely it's part of the mission but sometimes just being accurate even that's not good a a guy in a green uniform Silver Bird on the shoulder I would look at my little cheat Silverberg colonel and say oh hello colonel I mean that's how bad it was but mistakes but you're not so familiar they become jaded and you and you don't see things so you made it clear in the book how you really really try to come in with fresh eyes and be very very careful and you get it right that Ori Heights in Panama City which was the military base where the US operation was headquartered and there was a MP there at the and I I it down the copier at the office and I made it fit in the pocket of my suit coat so when I would see somebody in the hall at the Pentagon that's that was very innovative for you but but that's the exciting thing about journalism to us that you go with a a beginners is and you see things that that people outside of the military say don't see and a lot of people in the military didn't see because they took it for granted enough you you talked about when you were covering some of the first women to be in combat and how although you were accurate it it was tough I said your commanding officers also female they all said female instead of women yes she's a female captain Linda Bray but when you come in with fresh eyes is he thinks that new so what you're trying to do is get to the point where you're not so new that you're naive or was the dictator. The I went several days after the invasion I I was drove up to fun on some of the people involved can you tell us about that nineteen hundred nine the United States invaded Panama to overthrow Manuel Noriega I knew that women weren't supposed to combat but here now I had to who were in combat told the public affairs officer there was an MP commander email and at that point the there was a ban on women in combat that women were expected to be safe they could participate in military life but they were there were few of them and they were banned from combat so but I said like I said to all the troops I I said so soldier did you see any action I went up to quarry heights I found a public affairs officer because we needed permission to speak to soldiers I knew something was up because I and I said really just being nice because she was at the headquarters where I figured there had been no action and she was locations in Panama and at she was at a command post when the invasion started she realized that some of her soldiers were encountering more opposition I wanted to talk to I didn't get into the women part of it wasn't lying but I wasn't fully truthful he said fine go talk to the so there was a Kennel barracks there she drove over in her Humvee crashed through the gate they the Panamanians were firing them achieve fired her weapon at them her troops were firing the sort of went on during the night the next day the the and I interviewed probably twenty five people altogether went back wrote the story about women participated fully in the eating troops in combat. I thought I should get some more examples though so I drove around Panama I found another dozen women that saw action impis I found her she was very Reticent About Talking She knew that to supposed to talk to the media that would that were there instructions but gate and she asked me what was I doing and who I was and I showed her my and she went through my stuff to make sure that I wasn't carrying a weapon or anything our largest military operation since since Vietnam so they leaked a story to rival topic of the White House briefing here was this Iraq woman who led her troops into battle and army was feeling well and she smiled and said a little bit and I said really and I said what happened and she said well I can't tell you you'd have to talk to my commanding officer she's up on the hill exaggerate for example I called it a fierce firefight to me that may be redundant that any firefight is fierce but it didn't seem exactly a victim of friendly fire like that and I agonized about my story I went back word for word trying to thank you know did I up a Hornet's nest around here and I thought Oh and she says oh no it's great and what she was feeling and what all the invasion of Panama and that was my story Linda Bray was part of the story but she wasn't the main part the next day I called the Pentagon on something else she didn't think that anything big happened I it took me at least an hour to get the bare facts out of her and the facts were that she linda and they described and I felt like I hadn't but Linda Bray publication that said my original story about women in combat was quote grossly exaggerated that was like a kick in the teeth to me I had never been got chewed up in the crossfire she her commanding officers reacted badly they lectured her about you know why she seeking come across in everything you ride and it's very I don't know inspirational I think for all the army was torn about the reaction because pretty soon Linda Bray was on all of the talk shows she was The it was a twenty nine years old commander of one hundred twenty and peace including about a dozen females they saw action at three different and she took a military a disability discharge and and left the army and went into a career in trying to point out something that happened where she behaved excellently and honorably and and fought well and got a security but her career really was ruined by what happened and which to me was so ironic because I was jury to based on what the women who were in the firefight told me but again I wasn't there I was basing my story on what they told she went back home tried to return to normal she had hoped to make her the military her life career basically she felt that she was driven out from still in Panama but I called up to the Pentagon to get information about something and of female major from the army she said man you you kicked in an Expected Atta Panamanian military barrack that was also the home of their military dogs police dogs me and I- agonize really did I exaggerate did I try to tell a better story for my own benefit then but these days journalists under attack in in so many ways said it must be Mighty discouraging for young doc and she quit she was she was disabled also because she had her hips had been injured not in Panama but before on the one hand were proud of all of our soldiers but we don't want a single soldier getting so much attention and we don't want this whole issue of women in combat to overshadow that is a real question and I I tell people that if you think well maybe I'll be journalist or maybe I'll be journalist or or for students who are thinking about becoming journalists do you have any words of advice or win in the Panamanians were gone but I then realized well this is very unusual that not only were women in combat but this is a woman encouragement for people who might be thinking about a career in journalism and are just not sure if it's rocket scientist or you know design some new algorithm for Amazon. Then you should do one of those but if all you can think of company so to me the scary thing would be to be forty journalists now and thinking I've invested so much but I'm not sure about the future and I I really never intended it that way the the passion the caring you bring to the ethics of journalism for those of us who already fans of journalism and in regard good reporting is so vital to democracy about all you've ever wanted to do is journalism than you should go for it because this is a super exciting time now it's a place where soldiers thought was that yes this happened the women behaved the way they were supposed to be the way

intern Panama Washington public affairs officer Voinovich School of Leadership Washington bureau chief reporter I Bev Jones Ohio University Holly Manuel Noriega United States Kennel barracks commander Panama one hand twenty nine years thirty years
Barr record of deception for Bush calls credibility into question

MSNBC Rachel Maddow (audio)

45:42 min | 1 year ago

Barr record of deception for Bush calls credibility into question

"The way matters show. We at nine eastern on MSNBC happy, Tuesday, the Republican party Pearl pulled off a rare electoral feet in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight when they were able to elect a president from their own party. After Ronald Reagan had just served his two terms as well. Usually voters are in the mood to turf out the party in power after a president from one party has has been in there for a couple of terms, but in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight the Republicans beat those odds Republican president Ronald Reagan had served for two terms. He was succeeded in office by his Republican vice president by George H W Bush was elected in one thousand nine hundred eight he was sworn in in January nineteen eighty nine. And although both those presidents both President Bush and President Reagan will certainly have their place in the history books. The transition wasn't as easy as you might expect the elevations from vice President Bush to President Bush was a little bit rocky in his first year especially early on in his first year. He suffered in comparison with President Reagan in particular when it came to his instincts around public communication and his handling of the presque to take for example, this moment just a few months after poppy Bush became president. This is may nine thousand nine hundred nine he'd been sworn in January of that year in may nineteen nine president, George H W Bush decided to make a very controversial very provocative, very bold public statement on foreign policy, but he did it in the most awkward inexplicable way possible. Which is exactly how the press reported it. His aides said the situation in Panama was relatively quiet today and required. No comment from the president. But Mr Bush had a nagging feeling that he had not made his views on Panama clear that the Panamanian people did not realize how much he hopes they will rise up against general Noriega, so on Air Force One Bush spoke out. Everything they can to have the will of the people respect the only he'd international calls. They ordered this new everything they can to get Mr. Noriega out there. A Bush worried that he might inflame the situation on second thought when he urged the Panamanian people to be cautious. How did no words of cautioned? The will of the people should be implemented. Look that I'm not about to get into proposing three point action plan for the people of Panama museum. I do. I do think it's important that it not meet the United States. The colossus of the north coming down there to try to dictate to the people of Panama. It's such a weird rollout of this position from the president. Right. His aides tell the press, you know, nothing's going on there's nothing in particular that is driving. This. The president was just doing this other thing was totally unrelated. And he had a nagging feeling. He had a feeling that. Maybe people weren't totally clear on how much he wants there to be a coup in Panama. So on air force what he hopes there's a coup. He doesn't want the United States to be dictating what should happen. But he does want there to be a coup. And so he wants to summit all the reporters on Air Force, One apropos nothing for him to remind them how much he thinks that country should oversee overthrow it's leadership. Not that he thinks the United States should be dictating. What happens there? What? Given that initially awkward rollout that day in may nineteen eighty nine the new president decided that he would give the whole thing another shot the following day. But again, it was sort of one shot forward to shots back. Administration says it hopes the Panamanian defense force will follow President Bush's plea to rise up against Noriega at a political fundraiser last night in Kentucky, Mr Bush said he would act as much as possible in concert with other countries, we do not want to return to the days of the imperialistic gringos of the north. We're not here to be the imperialistic gringos. We don't wanna be the colossus of the north. We don't wanna tell any country. What ought to happen in their country except in Panama, you guys need to have a coup. That was may nineteen eighty nine the early awkward days of the George H W Bush presidency by October of that same year, October nineteen Eighty-nine though, in fact, Panama had a coup at least they had an attempted coup. It did not go. Well. Animal's general Noriega in control then and still in control now evening, Panama general, Manuel Noriega is alive and well tonight still in power after rebel tubes. Tried to overthrow him in a day of heavy fighting the shrewd and durable. Military strongman appeared tonight on Panamanian television and condemn the uprising in the capital, Panama City, forces loyal to Noriego are in control NBC's, Brian Ross has been following all this Washington and tonight, Brian ultimately, it was Noriega's forces who won the day has talent. Eric and authorities say Noriega is much more powerful tonight after having so easily put down this morning's attack White House. Aides say they've known for a couple of days there could be an attempted coup. But that the president knew for certain only after gunfire erupted in Panama City, President Bush learned the fighting just before he welcomed Mexico's president. Silliness during the ceremonies. Bush seemed distracted not only was Bush worried about the coups chances of success. He also worried that Latin Americans would accuse the US of throwing its weight around in a tiny Lapin country. Bush later went out of his way to deny US involvement. Rumor Karan some American operation, I can tell you that is not true, although Bush denied involvement in the past he has urged Panamanians, especially the military to rise up against Noriega for love to see him. Get him out. We'd like to see him out of there is age. Do not believe that. Today's failure is George Bush's bay of pigs the Cuban invasion fiasco that haunted. John kennedy. The bay of pigs wasn't American operation. Today's attempted coup was not according to Bush's aides say that although he urged a revolt he never promised to help anytime. They're saying now, they don't think this is his bay of pigs anytime you. You have to reference that. Those reports are from October third that was the day of that failed attempted coup in Panama within a few days. This just continued to escalate and escalate and escalate domestically here until it became a full-scale political disaster for the relatively young George Hw Bush White House. Good evening. President Bush and his advisers are under fire tonight charged with fumbling a chance to get rid of general Manuel Noriega during Tuesday's attempted coup. President Bush took the unusual step of going to the democratic leader of the senate's office to assure George Mitchell that George Bush did not wimp out in the middle of the coup attempt later NBC's Andrea Mitchell asked Bush, if you got bad intelligence from his advisors. No, I do not think so at all. And and I don't think anybody up here thing, though, President Bush knew he was in trouble. When he read his morning newspapers caught off guard. Aides admit bad handling. Tragedy. Inexperience helped doom coup that is how that unfolded over the first week in October nineteen Eighty-nine George H W Bush's first year in office. Here's this new US president who had been encouraging a coup in this foreign country in Panama for months awkwardly, encouraging it having nagging doubts about whether he's been courage encouraging it enough right insisting on it at times. But still saying I don't wanna be telling you what to do except that you should have a when the coup finally comes to pass the coup fails, the US president appears to have not really known what he was talking about when he was begging publicly for that coup to happen, pledging there'd be all this support that never arrived. And then a week later. It's interesting that whole story, which was very very bad news for this new presidency that whole story took a turn it happened on Friday the thirteenth October thirteenth nineteen Eighty-nine. Just exactly a week after that day of terrible headlines for president George H W Bush about him screwing up. It came to that in Panama, but Tober thirteenth one week later that was black Friday that was the day. The stock market had a huge crash in one thousand nine hundred nine one of the biggest crashes of the decade, but even alongside that huge crash. The new twist in the Panama crisis made news that night to in a huge big new way. Because of this scoop on the front page of the L A times. F B I gets okay. For overseas arrests. That's the one headline in the LA times. This is the sub head Justice Department's decision which allows US law officers to act without the consent of foreign states. Could bring could apply to efforts to bring Panama's manual Noriega to trial in Florida. So even with the huge devastating stock market crash that black Friday October thirteenth nineteen Eighty-nine. There's also that weird scoop in the LA times which puts the disastrous Panama story back on the nightly news that same night. And again, yet another sort of almost ridiculously inept comment from the new president to punctuate it because every time something comes up in this story. He just seems to stick his foot in it. The FBI tonight has broad new powers to arrest American fugitives overseas. The Justice department says permission is not needed from foreign countries. However secretary of state James Baker said this new procedure will not be used without a full discussion of the obvious foreign policy implications. Just me. By going into a rescue Jedid foreign country L. Now this reverse artistry policy. Let up. No. Do that since he's at the independent now, I'm Barish this. I don't know what it is. You're I'll have to get back to you with the answer to your question. Marlin take care. I don't know. What it I'm not seeing the LA times reports on just have to not come in until I do. Arlen martin. We do we get the LA times here. What is this? I mean here is this new president on shaky ground who's had a really big foreign policy national security crisis in his first six months in office. Right. He has been ineffectually noncommittally sabre-rattling for months about how he wants there to be a coup in Panama. He wants the the wants the leader there to be overthrown. The US will be there if the Panamanian people if the Panamanian military just rise up and topple the leader, the US will be there for them after months of saying that and then not following through including when they tried it. I mean, this was a shocking turn in that story. Right. Here's the president's Justice department saying, well, here's a plan b if the whole coup thing doesn't work out because we can't quite get that together. Well, then here's plan b here's something we believe we can do we're going to proclaim under the law. We can do it U S law enforcement personnel US FBI agents, we're going to declare that they legally can just go into any other country anywhere in the world and arrest the leader of that country of the US wants to therefore you really need a coup. Well does have. The FBI do your coup for ya. Anywhere. That was the LA times. The scoop that October Justice department acting with unusual secrecy has given the FBI legal authority to apprehend fugitives from US law in foreign countries and return them to the United States without first obtaining, the foreign states consent. The rule could apply to such cases as the US effort to bring Panamanian strongman Manuel Noriega to trial, quote department officials refused to discuss the broad new grant of power the legal grounds used to justify it or even to acknowledge its existence. The times noted that the refusal by Justice department officials to discuss the ruling was puzzling at a legal level because the ruling wasn't classified. It quote does not carry a security classification. So why wouldn't they discuss it? Why wouldn't they even admit that it existed? I mean the times knew it existed the LA times was able to figure out both the title of that memo and its author its author, then assistant attorney general William P bar. Yeah. That guy. Same William P bar was the newly appointed attorney general of the United States under President Trump when he was assistant attorney general under George H W Bush when he was running the office of legal counsel at the Justice department. He wrote, and then tried to keep secret a very controversial legal opinion on this very controversial issue. I mean, the brand new poppy Bush administration was contending with wave after wave of controversy and drama over this whole issue of Panama. This was one of the big waves and not controversy a legal opinion, which came to light a week after this failed coup. Right. A legal opinion. They were trying to keep secret which seemed to imply that the US nail believed the FBI could send in its agents to remove a foreign leader from power anywhere in the world on our own government's own say, so without consulting any foreign government about the fact that they were going to do this. I mean, it was one thing for the president to be calling for uprisings in other countries promising support for those uprising and then not delay. Dering was another thing for him to be saying that the uprising from here on out wouldn't be needed. Because we just do it ourselves with our law enforcement guys. Congress unsurprisingly was concerned. They convened a hearing that was titled FBI authority to seize suspects abroad, William P bar the author of that reported memo was summoned to testify who's asked to congress. He was asked by congress to hand over this legal memo that he'd authored which reportedly justified this kind of radical action that nobody had ever heard of before William P bar did show up for his congressional testimony. But he refused to hand over the opinion that he had written that led to him being summoned to testify in the first place is from the transcript of that hearing this debare, quote, although the content of the opinion like other advice rendered by the office of legal counsel. Must remain confidential. I'm happy to share with the committee are legal reasoning and our conclusions before turning to these legal issues. I think it's important that the committee understand and then he gets interrupted congressman John Edwards. The committee chairman interrupts Mr. bar may I interrupt. Why? Why does the opinion have to remain confidential? Is this a change in policy? We have a copy of other non-classified opinions. This is not a classified document mR Barr. Says excuse me, he says Mr. bar. Why are you withholding it from this committee? Bar then insisted it was the policy of the Justice department. That opinions like this must remain confidential. It does not appear at all to have been the broad-based policy of the Justice department that such documents would remain confidential. But nevertheless, he insisted that was the policy that he was fault following the committee, chairman knew that he was asserting a confidentiality policy that didn't really exist, and he pushed it on committee chairman pushed him he said, quote, I understand that Mr. bar, but this is public business the subject of much discussion in the United States. You are going to have to tell the public and the congress sometime why you change the rules on this arresting of fugitive overseas William response. That's what I'm here doing. We have no objection to explaining our conclusions, and our reasoning to the committee. I'm just not going to give you the document. Explain it to you describe what's in it. So here's congress saying this is a matter of intense public interest. This is the biggest scandal for this new president, right? There is reportedly document within the Justice department that is very relevant to our understanding of the conduct of this administration is directly on point for matter of huge public controversy and political importance in geopolitical importance that directly affects the behavior of the president of the United States, which has not been stellar on. This point you have to show us, this document that has been reported in the press that has been described your now admitting that this document exists show us the documents. Well, the embar says I don't want to show you the document. But trust me, I will describe it to you. He actually says at the hearing these are his words at that hearing in one thousand nine hundred nine he says that instead of handing over the actual opinion itself. He will quote summarize, the principal conclusions of the opinion summarize. Its principal conclusions. Where have I heard that before? Law. Professor Ryan Goodman is a former special counsel that fence department road up this historical account this week now that the same William Barr. This exact same guy is handling the report from special counsel, Robert Muller in exactly the same way, refusing to hand over the document hits self and instead he's providing what he described with exactly. The same words his summary of principal conclusions. Right that summary of principal conclusions is all we've got this far from bar. It's going to be followed Thursday morning this week by some sort of redacted censored version of Muller's report it's been twenty five days since Muller handed his report into William bar, a matter of intense public interest intense investigatory interest when it comes to this president and his administration in this campaign. We still only have William bar so-called summary of that documents principal conclusions. We still don't know what we're gonna get in terms of redacted version of Muller's report from bar on Thursday morning. But you know, thanks to history. We do know what happened. The last time William bar asked the country and ask congress to trust him to trust his summary of principal conclusions while he simultaneously refused to release the underlying document itself. That is what he is doing with the mullahs report right now that is exactly the same thing. He did using exactly the same language in one thousand nine hundred nine with his super controversial legal opinion. That said the FBI could go into any country in the world and arrest any foreign leader and bring them back to the United States took a while for it finally to come out, but within a couple of years of that stonewalling testimony from William bar at the height of the Panama controversy in one thousand nine hundred nine within a couple of years, the underlying document that gave rise to all that scandal that he said couldn't be released within a couple of years that document did finally get released in full congress subpoenaed it the Washington Post reporter, Michael Isikoff got his hands on it. Ultimately in the. Early years of the Clinton administration that legal opinion that Barr had refused to release said he would only describe it. It was just finally publicly printed and unredacted for him. Because of that because we can now see that we now know for the sake of informing our good judgment today and this week when it comes to William bar, we now know that the last time he tried to get away with something like this in one thousand nine hundred nine William bars summary of that documents principal conclusions bore no relation at all to what was actually in the underlying document. As Ryan Goodman, puts it this week, quote, when the opinion the real opinion was finally made public. It was clear that bars summary had failed to disclose the opinions principal conclusions bar so-called summary, quote, omitted, some of the most consequential and incendiary conclusions from the actual opinion. And there was evidently no justifiable reason for having withheld those parts from congress or the public Justice. An example, just as an example of the distance between what bar said in his summary, and what was actually in this document that he was purportedly summarizing. What he assured congress in his summary was that the actual opinion this controversial document that the LA times had scooped Amman right that they've learned existed. He said that the opinion was quote strictly a legal analysis of the FBI's authority as a matter of domestic law to conduct extraterritorial arrests is strictly about domestic law. Trust me, not gonna show you the opinion. I've decided I cannot show you this opinion. But this is my summary of what's in it. And I'm telling you, it's strictly an analysis as a matter of domestic law strictly. Then alternately we get the underlying document that he was refusing to release and just I mean, you don't wanna go through all of it. Just look at the subheadings in it. The effect of customary international law on the FBI's. Extraterritorial powers. Also, the president's constitutional power to authorize actions inconsistent with customary international law. Also the status of the UN charter than other unexecuted treaties and treaty provisions, my favorite subsection, f international and foreign law in the fourth amendment. I mean, whether or not it's a good thing or about thing that the Justice department at one point held that the FBI could go arrest foreign leaders anywhere in the world. When it came to time for William P bar to explain that to congress to explain to congress, and the public what was in that document. He said strictly on domestic this was strictly on domestic law. This is strictly only about US law. The whole thing actually turned out to be about international law at least all of the controversial and incendiary and inflammatory parts of it were, but he left all of those out in his summary. That's the last time. William Pibor tried to issue a summary of principal conclusions to congress and the public instead of handing over an actual document. And that previous experience in US history with William P bar is part of the reason there are so many red flags flying everywhere about him refusing to release the Mola report in full to congress about him writing his own summaries of what he says is in the Miller report instead of releasing the summaries that Muller's team wrote themselves about their own report. It's also the reason I think why they are just generally low expectations for whatever it is is going to be released from bars office Thursday morning this week as he has been involved in supervising this vague and ever-shifting redaction process that it appears to have invented on the spot. Once he received the Mola report and got a look at what was in it. So we're going to speak with Ryan Goodman in just a moment about the implications of William people are past behavior here, and what that tells us about what we're about to experience. But the fact that there are such low expectations for what's going to be released on Thursday morning. I think also puts the spotlight onto other prospects here, which may yet be influencing how attorney general William bar is heading into what he's going to do in two days. Number one. There's the question of Muller. There's the question of whether or not Robert Muller himself will be allowed to testify to congress about what his findings were separate and apart. From whatever written document is released to congress and the public will Muller be allowed to testify to explain what his findings were. It's very interesting over these last couple of weeks. Unexpected development House Republicans surprisingly have been on the same side as House Democrats on the issue of molar testifying both the top Republican on the intelligence committee, Devon Nunez, and the top Republican on the judiciary committee. Doug collins. They have both said since Muller submitted his report twenty five days ago that Miller himself should be called to testify in congress about the results of his investigation and his findings. So that will mean both the democratic chairman and the Republican ranking members of both of those key committees have said they want Muller testifying in congress. Could that help? If this goes badly on Thursday morning, which I think everybody is expecting it to in terms of what is cut out of Muller's findings could testimony from Muller meaningfully fix that. Could it meaningfully assuage concerns in the country about what bar has cut out of Muller's written findings if Moller's allowed to testify on his own terms as to what he found? That's one. Then there's also the judicial process, and this has not had nearly as much attention. But we know that the judiciary committee is going to subpoena the full document after they see what's been redacted out of it. But there's another way that judicial proceedings matter here, not just in terms of what congress might be able to get through the courts using the subpoena process. There's another way in which the judiciary here might matter today. There was a hearing on a foia lawsuit of freedom of information act lawsuit by BuzzFeed, news, number of media entities. And I are seeking to release the full unredacted report today and a hearing on one of these foyer emotions a federal judge, George W Bush appointee named judge Reggie Walton. He suggested in open court today that whatever William Barbara Dax Muller's report that may be subject to his review as a judge who's considering these foia requests that judge today suggested in court that he personally made need to look at the entire unredacted Miller report himself. Off to decide if bars reductions from that report are proper under the freedom of information act, or if those things that bars redacting from that report ought to be released to the public too. That's important. Right. That's important. Not only for what might happen down the line in terms of those foia lawsuits. It's important in terms of what William bar might do next because the bottom line here is that William bar got caught once before not telling the truth about an underlying document that he said couldn't be released he purported to summarize it he put out a purported summary that did not at all match that document that he tried to keep secret. Well, the Muller report may never be kept secret in the long run either. There are multiple paths by which the full unredacted Muller report may ultimately see the light of day some of them controlled by congress some of them controlled by the judiciary, some controlled by unforeseen factors that we don't know how US history is going to wrap around in the future. But if bar is going to try this week to get away with selling some version of Muller's findings. That is not a truthful Representative renovate truthful representation of what Muller actually found. He will likely be caught for that. Just like he was before that is what history tells us, and that has to loom that hasta loom over what he is planning on shoveling us on Thursday morning. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by g k. For years, we have relied on anti-biotics. But what happens if they stop working and a once treatable infection could be fatal at GS K. We're one of the few companies continuing to invest in a new generation of antibiotics through our own dedicated team and by working with other scientists because antibody resistance isn't a problem of the future. It's already here. After being handed. The report on the investigation by special counsel, Robert Muller, twenty five days ago. Newly appointed attorney general Bill Barr told the country that while he really really really wanted to be asked transparent as possible he could not possibly release Muller's report to the public or to congress, nor could he release even the summaries of Muller's findings that Muller's team reportedly wrote themselves specifically, so they could be released to the public. No, he couldn't release those at all William bark, not let any of that see the light of day. Instead, he would be more than happy to release his own summary of the principal conclusions of Muller's investigation this principle conclusions we now know amounted to everything's fine. The president is very cool everybody, go home. We're now learning that this is not the first time William bar has resorted to that trick in one thousand nine hundred nine he drafted a really really really controversial memo when he was the head of the office of legal counsel at the Justice department when word leaked about that document and congress demanded to see it bar said, no insisted that even though the document wasn't classified. It was just very important that they not see that document. Instead he offered to you guessed. It summarize the principal conclusions of the document trust him. You don't need to see the real thing. He'll just tell you. What's in it? As law professor and former defense department special counsel, Ryan Goodman writes this week at just security, quote, when the oil c- opinion was finally made public long after bar left office. It was clear that bar summary had failed to fully disclose the opinions principal conclusions. It omitted some of the most consequential and incendiary conclusions from the actual opinion. There was evidently no justifiable reason for having withheld those parts from congress or the public. Joining us now is NYU law. Professor ryan. Good man, he did service special counsel to the defense department during the Obama administration. He's now co editor in chief at just security, professor Goodman. Thanks for being here. Thank you. So I'm working off your work here. I didn't know this story about this. Oh, all see memo until you wrote about it. But I was fascinated to get back into that history. Let me just I ask you if I screwed any that up and telling that story, you think you lead political context extremely wheels to so one of the things that we learn from you resurfacing this story from reason history is that William bars been doing this for a long time. And that he is. I mean, we knew he was an experience Washington official. This tells us something specifically about his experience. But it also raises the question as to whether or not he might ultimately feel constrained in putting out a summarized or redacted version of a document if he knows that the ultimate document, the original document is ultimately going to come out. How did you come away feeling about that looking at this issue? So I think that's one of the most important insights from the. History is that when he is withholding from congress. I e tries to withhold the opinion. Then he says, I'll give you my summary of it. He must know that eventually it will come out. So what's most worrisome is that he must know that it will tarnish his reputation when the opinion finally does see the light of day. But I think he has a mission and the mission is to protect the White House and protect the president. So he knows by the time that this opinion might come out and he guessed right or he strategized correctly. It's three years later. The whole political issue has changed and it's a new administration. So he's moved on out of that job. He's moved on to other jobs, and it's small enough issue in its history that it doesn't end up tarring for life. If anything might even think that it proves himself, it proves himself to another administration the Trump administration. This could be your guy like he can do this kind of work for you. Because he's willing to put himself on the line. And he's this is pretty artful. What he did it's strategic deception, and I would think that if they knew about this history where there's every reason to think that they might have in digging up his history and under. Standing him. This would be the person for them. Does it? How does it factor into that sort of calculus that sort of strategic deception the prospect that Robert Muller might testify? This doesn't have a lot of attention. But I have been surprised over the last couple of weeks to see the top Republicans on key committees, including intelligence and judiciary come out and say that they to want Robert Muller to testify about his findings not just bar testifying about molars findings, but Moeller himself. I wonder just big picture if you think that Muller's testimony might be a way of correcting for any distorting reductions or over ambitious reductions that bar tries to get away with I do think. So I think that there couple of checks this time around that won't repeat history. So there is Muller in the background. And maybe he testifies there's also the Muller team. So we already know from the New York Times reporting in the Washington Post reporting that the mother team was very dissatisfied with they went over thrusts for the first time. Yeah. For the first time in all of this period of there'd been incredibly, quiet. So that's another. Other kind of check that they might go to the press is whistle blowers. Essentially, if our misrepresents their work, which he seems to have already done, and he does it even worse on Thursday. Then I think that's a second check. And then the third check is that the House Judiciary committee has already authorized the chair to subpoena the full report and back in one thousand nine hundred nine believe it or not a takes congress Twenty-one months before they subpoena the full report. So this time around I think Barbie's things about the calculation. He might actually think this report could become public within a matter of months. Exactly. And even though it took a long time in eighty nine for congress to issue that subpoena once they did they got it quickly in this case, he knows that congress has gone issue that subpoena right away maybe on Thursday. And so it may happen fast. Exactly one week in nineteen eighty nine after they've finally issued this thank you for digging up this piece of history. I mean, I know that it was a little bit hiding in plain sight when she went to go look for it. But I never would have known about this point in bars history. And it does feel like an incredibly uncannily spot on. Precedent for what we're going through. Thanks. Thank you have you here. Ryan Goodman is the co editor in chief adjusts security dot org, which is where you can read this piece that he's written about the bizarre Noriega memo. I was also a former special counsels defense department during the Obama administration. We'll be right back. There was the time. He got mad about the size of his rally not the reported size of his rally, but the size of his rally. There was the time. He told the attorney general that he was an idiot. There was the time. He cursed out the Senate majority leader over the phone, the berating with a profane shouting match reporting. There was the time he your -rupt. It Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer that one happened on live TV and gave rise to some amazing photos. It is a feature a regular feature of this presidency that the president gets. It is such a thing that the president literally has had to say, quote, I don't have temper tantrums. He said that in the middle of a big public rent about his border wall, which kind of seems like a tantrum even in that moment. Here's another one though in December twenty seventeen there were multiple reports that the president's biggest lender Deutsche Bank had received a subpoena from Robert Muller in the Russia investigation. Deutsche Bank, of course, has loan President Trump billions of dollars over the years when other financial institutions wouldn't loan him so much as their pocket lint. Why have they done that? I mean, the Bank was also involved in the multibillion dollar Russian money laundering scheme. Are those things connected. It was not a total surprise that. Robert Muller might wanna peek inside the Trump files at Deutsche Bank, nevertheless, months later, we learned that those published reports that Deutsche Bank had received subpoenas from Muller's investigation. We learned that those reports sent. Trump into one of his more over the top destructive impressive freak outs. The president was reportedly. So hopping mad over the nerve of Robert Muller to subpoena Deutsche Bank that he reacted to that news by trying to fire special counsel, Robert Muller that was the reporting quote, angry president sought to fire Muller over deutchebanks subpoenas. Now weirdly at the time, it was not totally clear that Muller actually had subpoena Deutsche Bank, the president's personal lawyer said he checked it out with the Bank and found that no such subpoenas existed. Okay. We don't know sort of an open question, given the reporting. Maybe that was right. I mean, maybe it was a false alarm for the president the house intelligence chairman, Adam Schiff has repeatedly publicly questioned whether the special counsel's investigation ever peaked into the president's finances at all suggesting in fact that they haven't I don't know why Adam Schiff is saying that, but he's been saying that for months, he's probably in a position to know as the chairman of the intelligence committee. I mean, we also don't know for sure what what happened to the subpoenas that Deutsche Bank reportedly got that that made the president so mad did they definitely get them. What happened to the once? They were issued. Why did the president reacted the way? He I mean, maybe we'll find out on Thursday when the attorney general releases some redacted version of Robert Muller's report, but two days before that report comes out, we do know as of today that Deutsche Bank definitely has been subpoenaed now for sure late yesterday Democrats in the house issued friendly, but formal subpoenas to Deutsche Bank demanding the president's financial records. Exactly the same territory of those reported subpoenas that drove the president to rage out and try to fire Robert Muller along time ago. The New York Times is reporting that Democrats have not just subpoenaed deutchebanks. They've also asked for documents from J P Morgan Chase Bank of America. And also sitting group documents regarding quote, possible money laundry. By people in Russia and eastern Europe. These new subpoenas from Democrats in congress follow one for financial records that were sent to the president's accounting firm, and the House Ways and means committee, directing the IRS to hand over the president's tax returns in accordance with the law, which says the IRS has to hand them over the president has now hired a brand new failings of lawyers whose only job seems to be to keep the president's tax returns and financial records away from scrutiny to keep them secret from everybody who has a right to see them the president's business. Trump organization is also reportedly considering ways to try to block Deutsche Bank from complying with the subpoenas and forking over Trump's files. So the president's Bank, the president accounting firm, the president's taxes, it's all happening at once. I know the Muller report Thursday morning, but all of this stuff separate and apart from Muller's investigation. It's all now happening. Congress wants all of those records now and his acting to get them. The last time we got anywhere close to this. The president got so mad. He tried to fire Robert Mueller with no rubber Muller left to fire anymore. What is the president going to do to stop this? Now that thought. Joining us now is Greg Farrell investigative reporter for Bloomberg news, Mr. Phelps great to have you with us here tonight. Thanks for coming. So the last time we spoke the president was reportedly freaking out over the special counsel reportedly having issued a subpoena to join your Bank about their relationship with President Trump. We then learned months later that the president considered that to be a red line. He blew his top. It led him to try to fire the special counsel now after all of that experience. Now, we're in a situation where undisputedly there are definitely subpoenas to Georgia Bank and a bunch of banks their congressional subpoenas. So a couple of questions for you just as an experience reporter on these matters first of all a subpoena from congress does it have any less force or any more force for these banks than a grand jury subpoena. Would know it has the full force in banks want this where you mentioned friendly subpoenas before friendly, and so far is this now makes it easy for Deutsche Bank to respond. It was very difficult when congresswoman Maxine Waters asked for it two years ago, she didn't have subpoena power. So you know, they might have been some public interest in it. But to the Bank secrecy act prevented Georgia Bank from doing anything along those lines so subpoena power, you know, give congresswoman waters Schiff, you know, the chance to, you know, the power to command this into what your Bank has full defense that you know. They're allowed to turn this over. So I don't think the president's lawyers are going to have much of a chance if they're going to try to fight this so Alan garden, who's a lawyer at the Trump organization. The president's business has said that he is exploring options to try to block Deutsche Bank from responding to the subpoena. Are there any options? I mean, it's sort of seems like this is this is a cul de sac. They're very creative. And I'm sure he's going to try to find something that might pose an impediment. But I don't see how they can. They can avoid this at this point, given the earlier reporting that the president really did lose his mind about this. And that it led him to try to fire the special counsel. Even though he knew what the locations of that would likely be what are you? How are you viewing this in terms of the seriousness of these subpoenas in terms of potential response from the White House in terms of the limited legal options? They have for blocking this. I mean, as I said, there's no there's no Robert Mueller to fire here. And he he can't fire Maxine Waters around him. Chef how do you think about this in terms of what kind of a clash this isn't how serious this might be? Well, first of all. For most people, you know, the going into defensive mode and trying to prevent information. Like this getting out would be assigned that there's something that is being hidden something that the president's hiding. However, I think we've seen after a couple of years, this is almost a reflexive mode. Anything having to do with Russia. One of the reasons the Russia inquiry became so like powerful it had such momentum is because they were denials and lies and and attempts at covering up and most people only cover up on this something to be covered up. But you know, to some extent, it's just a default mode. It seems like in the White House to just prevent information from getting out even if everything was on the up and up. So I don't think that helps in this case. You know, we we will find out, but that kind of reaction suggests that there's something wrong. So I'm not sure that's the case. But you know, the presence different that way. Do you think this will unfold in fairly short order is this something that's going to stretch on for years until like this'll be fairly short order. I think I'm not sure it's a coincidence that the speed is come now after Bob molars, finally wound down. So his inquiry is over and now it's a chance for congress to go forward. They've had five months to put a game plan together. So I'm sure on November tenth they were planning on what they were going to do. But this is the first move. So now's your chance to get something. I don't think it will take long Greg Farrell investigative reporter for Bloomberg news. Thanks for helping us understand the great. Thank you. All right. We'll be right back. Stay with us. Tonight was the second one ever the first one happened last month congress had voted to basically undo the president trying to declare an emergency. So he could build his wall between us and Mexico. Even though congress said no to that he declared the emergency congress said, oh, no, you don't Trump then issued his first ever veto. He vetoed the Ono you don't from congress. So that he could still built his wall. That was the first time he ever issued a veto now tonight he has just issued his second ever veto congress. This year took the very rare step of challenging a president on war. They voted to end US involvement in the war in Yemen tonight. President Trump called that measure that congress sent him quote and unnecessary dangerous attempt to weaken my constitutional authorities. And then he put his veto sharpy to it. We have a president who is now governing in a way he didn't use to govern. Because congress has. Not openly challenged him much. She has not governed by veto much. But now to vetoes in two months, presumably more to come watch the space. I have an unusual sound for you, can you name this. If you've ever spent time in New England, you'll have a leg up on everybody else here. But are you ready? All right hit. I know that sounds like bad news. But it's not that is not the sound of a dying animal or an animal in distress. That is the sound of a happy. Fisher cat of Fisher cat is not actually a cat. It's in the weasel family. It's a large carnivorous are boreal tree dwelling weasel. They're one of the only things rascal enough to know how to eat a porcupine part of the answer is carefully despite its screaming cuteness fishers are known to be pretty ferocious. He want to talk more about the Fisher cat. You should ask. Former two time Republican governor of Massachusetts Bill weld yesterday Bill weld announced he will challenge Donald Trump in the Republican presidential primary in twenty twenty. He also went out of his way to announce that the Fisher cat will be his his mascot, his guiding spirit in this endeavor. He told the Boston Globe, quote, people are usually like what's a Fisher cat. But they don't realize how ferocious they can be sort of like me and this campaign. Pain. The last time they sitting president faced a primary challenge was one thousand nine hundred ninety two the last time Bill weld ran for office twenty sixteen as Gary Johnson's vice presidential candidate on the libertarian ticket. This should be interesting. I also want you to know that Bill weld is standing by to talk to my friend Lawrence O'Donnell this hour. So don't go anywhere. We'll see you again tomorrow. Meadow show, weeknights at nine eastern on MSNBC. Hi, it's Lawrence O'Donnell. If you love MSNBC where your heart on your sleeve, you can gear up with t shirts. Hoodies hats and more from the last word and all of your favorite MSNBC shows you can shop now at MSNBC store dot com.

president Congress William Barbara Dax Muller United States President Bush George H W Bush Panama Manuel Noriega President Trump Justice department Muller William bar professor Goodman special counsel President Reagan FBI LA times vice president attorney principal
Crossover Week: Kingpins (Manuel Noriega Pt. 2)

Dictators

41:35 min | 5 months ago

Crossover Week: Kingpins (Manuel Noriega Pt. 2)

"Due to the graphic nature of this kingpins crimes listener discretion is advised this episode includes discussions of torture rape and murder that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. It was nineteen eighty Panamanian dictator. Omar Torrijos was having dinner with a roomful of friend statesman. He was Moody Quiet. A friend asked him how the National Guard was doing to. R- hose told him to ask his intelligence chief. Tony Noriega. Only Noriega knew everything that was happening the night before Noriega had sent a plane full of weapons to the guerrilla fighters in El Salvador. The plane crashed and by daybreak everyone in the world new Panama had been secretly aiding the rebels. There already tenuous relationship with America had been damaged. But that wasn't what bothered Torrijos. What really worried him was. That Noriega hadn't even told him the mission was happening. Torrijos had given his second in command almost limitless power. He trusted him. And now Noriega was keeping secrets from him if he hadn't been told about this military operation. What else was his most trusted ally hiding for all torrijos new while he was safe at the Capitol dining with his powerful friends. Tony Noriega was plotting his demise. Hi I'm how hard it and I'm kate. Leonard and this kingpins on the podcast network. Every Friday we journey inside the ranks of Organized Crime Rings From Street gangs to mafiosos to understand how a kingpin or Queen Pin Rises to the top of the underworld and why they fall as we follow the lives of infamous crime. Bosses will explore how money and power changed them and how it changed the community around them. This is our second episode on. Manuel Antonio Noriega a tyrant who ran one of the most successful crime and intelligence monopolies in the world in the nineteen seventies and eighties. All while protected and funded by the American government last week we explored his meteoric rise to power through Panama's military. This week will take a look at Noriega's time as dictator of Panama and the American coup. That finally brought him down. You can listen to all of podcast shows on apple podcasts. Spotify stitcher Google play cast box or your favorite podcast directory. And if you enjoy the show. One of the best ways to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts. Manuel Antonio Noriega was the power behind the Panamanian military dictatorship from nineteen sixty eight to nineteen eighty one as well as one of the C. I. A. as most important informants as both an American asset and dictator Omar Torrijos. His right hand man. Forty two year. Old Noriega enjoyed more power than he had ever dreamed of with complete immunity from the law. He seized control of Panama's extensive drug and gun smuggling empires taking a cut of every piece of contraband. That crossed the border. He was also as the CIA was about to discover collecting classified secrets from multiple world powers and selling them to the highest bidder. The Americans discovered where Noriega was true loyalties laid in the summer of nineteen seventy six. It was a testy time between the United States and Panama Canal Treaty. Negotiations had rear their ugly head and the people of Panama had made their agenda clear. The Americans occupied the canal zone for seventy three years and it was time for them to go. The CIA's prized informant. Tony Noriega was just stirring the pot. He had reasoned correctly that if the United States had asked him to record classified conversations they were probably asking their other assets to do the same. Those recordings would be worth a fortune to other world. Powers Noriega found. The systems weak spot. America's own military sergeants. He generously bribed a few soldiers into selling him tapes of their conversations with foreign dignitaries. He then sold the tapes to the Cubans the Soviets and anyone else willing to pay a price when the US army discovered what happened. They privately reprimanded the sergeants and closed the file. Hushing up the whole embarrassing episode but the scandal eventually started to leak. Us intelligence agencies for their part had no desire to prosecute their valuable asset. So when the Senate came asking about Noriega they pointed the finger back at the army the army of course told the Senate. The case was already closed and refused to share any documents or records without any evidence or cooperation the US government could only try and fail to bring a case against Noriega the CIA officially took Noriega off their payroll after the scandal came to light but it was too late to rain in the monster they'd created with the money he had received from selling those tapes. He expanded Panama's National Guard from a militia of five thousand men into a true military of fifteen thousand soldiers and one hundred fifty thousand public servants. It was a cash cow of an investment. The new and improved military generated an annual profit of one hundred million dollars both through its military duties and through the smuggling and prostitution rings. Noriega hired them to oversee both the drug and gun running operated with a precision that would put most businesses today to shame. Bulk shipments were flown into Panama. Then to their final destinations in the United States wants contraband reached the US. Contacts Noriega had planted in customs and shipping would fudge the paperwork. And let them through. Without Inspection Noriega didn't even have to be involved. He simply collected his cut publicly. The C. I. A. Dropped Noriega as an informant after the bribery scandal. But privately they didn't want to jeopardize their relationship with the shadow dictator. There was no effort to crackdown Panama's state-sanctioned Smuggling Noriega's flagrant disregard for the US wasn't just out of carelessness. He had a far greater reason to fan. The flames of tension between the two countries dictator. Torrijos had become popular based on his promise that once the Panama Canal. Treaties were finalized. He would turn over control of the country to the elected civilian government but in the midst of the tensions between the US and Panama. The people now saw the military dictatorship as a necessary evil in their fight against US occupation public opinion was now squarely behind Torrijos. And when the time was right all the pieces would be in place for Noriega himself to assume the dictator ship after all this the. Us still considered Noriega useful in fact by being public enemies the US and Panama were reaping even more private benefits. They're secret arrangement. Came in handy in November of Nineteen seventy-nine president. Jimmy Carter had offered to open America's border to the exiled Shah of Iran in response anti-american students in Tehran stormed the American embassy and took sixty six people hostage. If the American hostages had any hope of survival the Shaw would have to leave American soil and fast. The shock couldn't go back to Iran or he'd be executed he couldn't stay with anyone considered un-american ally or it would just reaffirm. America's guilt in the eyes of the Iranian people so the US turned to Panama Publicly Panama. And the United States were feuding in Nineteen seventy-nine Torrijos could offer the Shaw asylum without tipping. Anyone off that the US had been involved. Torrijos gave the duty of protecting and housing. The Shah to Tony Noriega to anyone else. This babysitting job would have been insulting even humiliating. But Noriega saw it for what it could be a babysitting detail that would make him rich. Beyond his wildest dreams access to the exiled shaw could give him highly valuable Intel to sell to the highest international bidder. Tony was already seeing dollar signs in his eyes in preparation for the arrival. Tony met with the Shah's advisor. Robert R Maiyo to find a house for the fallen monarch. Tony drove our maiyo around Panama watching for signs that a house had caught the advisers. I- Tony's response was immediate and cocky. You like that one it's yours. It didn't matter if people were already living in it. Tony was determined to show off his place. In Panama's pecking order. Eventually he drove back to the airfield wherein electra turboprop plane was waiting. The plane looked like it was held together with duct tape. Tony grinned. As they boarded he could protect the Shah here to even if the plane fell apart. Tony flu are Maiyo over. Contadora island where the wealthy lived in mansions over the golden beaches and Turquoise Ocean. He pointed out the compound that belonged to Panama's former ambassador to the United States. This would be the perfect place to house. The Shaw his wife. It was quiet secure. And it gave Noriega the perfect opportunity to rob the shop lined. Tony's plans for the Shaw's trip were extensive. He wallpapered his office with schedules and maps. He chose men from the National Guard to form to protection details when the Shah arrived in Panama. A couple days later Tony wasted no time in presenting the bill. He charged the Shah for his guards. Pay and then requested ten thousand dollars per month for two small shacks where the men could stay. The Shaw was also build for the guards meals their booze and their romps with local sex workers he charged show offer the mobile van. He parked beside the home and for the bugs he secretly planted in each room of the house. Then he charged the same amounts to the Panamanian defense budget keeping all of the Shaw's payments for himself during the one hundred day visit. Tony pocketed more than twelve million dollars of the Shaw's money and that barely skimmed the surface of what he made selling tape recordings of the Shah and his wife to competing foreign governments for the most part dictator. Torrijos was fine with his intelligence chiefs opportunism but he was starting to grow worried about how much influence he'd allowed. Tony Noriega to accumulate. Torrijos had never cared much about state affairs and he'd quickly grown bored of his political responsibilities for years he'd been happy to let. Noriega run the country while he sat back and reveled in his position but by nineteen eighty one. The on we had started to infect every aspect of the dictator's life wealth and power had lost their allure. He had even stopped womanizing and fallen back in love with his wife. Torrijos had thought about stepping down. But he was afraid of what the country would look like. If he let Noriega take control by that. Point Noriega knew more about Panama's affairs than Torrijos. Did he running his own. Intelligence operations in military missions without even telling the dictator. Torrijos was starting to wonder what else he didn't know about and whether his loyal second in command could really be trusted. He didn't have to worry for long on July thirty first. Nineteen eighty one to rehome. Twin Propeller plane crashed into a mountain. He died immediately just like that is thirteen year. Rule came to fiery end. No one knows if the crash was an accident. Planned by the way by Anti Torrijos opposition leaders or by Noriega himself. Since Noriega never investigated the incident whatever the cause Torrijos. His death created a power vacuum all across Panama. The military leaders in line for the dictatorship began plotting their ascent if only they notice the shatter. We figure lurking behind the throne. Hoy's plunges dagger into their backs up next. We'll take a look at. How Manuel Antonio Noriega beat out all of his competitors to take control of his country now back to the story. Manuel Antonio Noriega had controlled Panama in all but name for years before dictator. Torrijos finally met his end in nineteen eighty one now. He would have to fight to remain in power as the country searched for its next military leader. Despite his laziness and Corruption Torrijos had been a popular leader job. Opportunities had soared as shady banks and money laundering operations crowded the country. He hadn't tried to control. The personal lives of his citizens like so many dictators had before him. Of course Tony Noriega had terrorized the opposition party but to the people of Panama. Torrijos remain separate from the brutality of his pineapple. Phased enforcer when Torrijos died the public wanted a successor who would keep his legacy alive initially torrijos his chief of Staff Colonel Florez took over as dictator. Flores was a lot like Torrijos. He didn't like ruling. He didn't know much about military leadership and cared justice little about civilian leadership but floors is lax attitude made him weak in the eyes of the three men behind him in line. For the dictatorship first in line after flora's was Colonel Ruben Perez. Who We mentioned last week. He had been sent to Cuba with Noriega to negotiate with Fidel Castro parade. Ace was handsome articulate and confident and in many ways the ideal candidate he was middle class and mixed race which made him appealing to the lower classes. He was also a horse breeder giving him close access to the social elite. Second line was a man named colonel. Contreras who oversaw. A large section of the National Guard and third in line was Tony Noriega. He had been close to Torrijos. But as a lieutenant colonel he had less official power than the others if he wanted to keep his influence. It would take some maneuvering shortly after Torrijos. Died in Nineteen eighty-one. These three military leaders met in secret to discuss what was to be done about their new dictator. Colonel Florez Colonel Parade Ace. Who was first in line was committed to balancing the power between the military and the civilian government. He was a military figure himself but he believed the military's power had gotten out of hand. His plan was to become military. Dictator slowly transition more power to the civilian sector and then retire is dictator to become the civilian president the Panamanian people would be pleased with the show of progress and the civilian and military governments could finally cooperate instead of warring power. If he had any chance of pulling this off he needed assurance that the two men in line behind him. Contrary US and Noriega wouldn't try to stage a coup and take over. He proposed an arrangement. They worked together to oust. Flora's and then take turns serving as military commander parade as would be commander from nineteen eighty one to nineteen eighty-three at which time he would turn over power to control rarest and run for president in. Nineteen eighty-four contraire would take over as commander from one thousand nine hundred eighty four to nineteen eighty-six. The Noriega would get his chance from one thousand nine hundred eighty seven to nineteen eighty nine. Everyone agreed there was just one more step. They needed to get rid of Florus. The plan was to use Noriega's personal national guards to surround the government building where Flora's was staying. Then they would pressure floor is to give up the office. They knew he wasn't going to fight. For it. Noriega literally arrived late to the coup. The other men feared that at any moment he might choose to side with Flora's and arrest Colonel Parade as for treason. But Noriega was thinking much farther ahead for now. He went along with the plan with the National Guard. Surrounding the capital Florez easily agreed to step down. Colonel Paradees took office as military commander of Panama. Peretti's next step was to remove. Colonel Contreras the second in line for the dictatorship. He was suspicious. The contrary would betray their contract and stage. A coup. To Take Power Noriega. Went along with this doing everything he could to appear loyal with contrary us out of the way. Noriega was now second in line parade. Ace was oblivious to the fact that he just traded a lamb for a wolf in sheep's clothing after two years in August. Nineteen eighty-three Peretti's stepped down to run for civilian president. Just as planned. His Final Act was to make Tony Noriega general so that he could take over as military commander that was the step Noriega was waiting for. He already owned the military through his back door. Politics and secret friendships. Now as a general it was official to celebrate. His promotion. Noriega threw a party at Fort. Almodovar it was one of the largest gaudy parties in Panama history. There was a full military parade dancing horses in a VIP list of influential. American Generals Noriega gave a toast and thanked paradise. But everyone in the room knew who was really holding all the cards as a final. Cheer Noriega called out to parade is when salt or Ruben. It was a phrase paratrooper said before diving out of airplanes. It meant have a good jump. The next day Noriega began his plan to oust. Peretti'S FROM POWER ENTIRELY I. He showed off a letter from Fidel Castro claiming he would withdraw Cuban alliances with Panama. If Peres was elected president weather the letter was authentic or not. It startled the civilian government enough to withdraw their support for parade is's campaign. Then Noriega quietly told American intelligence officers and Panamanian rebel groups that a former general leg parade as would never trade power to the civilian sector. Both groups quickly withdrew their support. As well finally Noriega warned businessmen that their lucrative military contracts would disappear if the military lost power to parade. Is's civilian government that was enough to change their minds in just three weeks. Noriega had torpedoed. Beretta's presidential campaign. There was no chance he would win. The next year is election and he had already resigned as military dictatorship to forty nine year old. Toni Noriega Noriega wasted. No time in seizing more control and any dictator before him within a few weeks. He passed a law that gave him explicit control over all customs immigration airports ports the army the navy the police and even parking enforcement the law also stated that all those branches would remain under. Noriega's personal control no matter who became dictator or president in the future. He began paying military officers and businessmen upwards of twenty thousand dollars a month to secure their continued loyalty. He cozied up to Nicaragua Cuba China Russia and his old friends in the US. He expanded his stake in Panama's drug smuggling by getting close to the Medellin cartel one of the two biggest cocaine cartels in Colombia. The cartel paid Noriega three percent of each shipment that made it through Panama into the US and two percent of the money they laundered in Panama's banks in total Noriega would help the Miyun a union cartel transfer and launder over two billion dollars in cocaine during the eighties. Earning him tidy profit of at least sixty million dollars that would be over one hundred fifty million today by Nineteen eighty-four the elections for civilian president or a fast approaching parade as was no longer in the running but someone would still have to fill the position. Noriega's chosen candidate was Nicholas Barletta. The President of one of his corrupt banks. Barletta was not only comfortable with money laundering. But he had also been unofficially informing to American intelligence. Which Noriega new and oversaw. He was the ideal correct candidate. The only problem was he was running against Arnulfo. Arias the popular man who Noriega and Torrijos had ousted as president years before he had finally returned to Panama and he was ready to take the presidency once again. The Panamanian people absolutely adored Arias if Noriega had him assassinated he would lose all respect from the Panamanian people. Even his own men. Noriega would have to win this election with good old fashioned poll Reagan on Election Day in Nineteen eighty-four Anti Military. Protesters filled the grounds outside the legislative building. Where the final vote tallies were being displayed on a giant board. They suspected there'd be foul play and they were right by evening. It was clear. Barletta was going to lose Noriega told the vote counters to begin ratcheting up the numbers on the board in favor of Barletta. He made a call to his soldiers and ask them to assemble in front of the protesters in case they tried to cause a Ruckus if that didn't stop them. He gave his men permission to open fire. Which is exactly what they did in. They weren't just firing warning shots. The demonstrators scrambled for cover. One then two then. Ten people fell under the barrage of bullets. In total forty were injured and one person died. The soldiers remained in place all night. While Noriega as people tallied false votes on the display board the next morning Noriega's puppet President Barletta was declared. The victor the entire world turned a blind eye to the mass shooting. It seemed that there was no one in the world. Brave enough or powerful enough to take. Tony Noriega down except there was a beloved Panamanian doctor by the name of Hugo spot of for a guerrilla medic who had fought with rebel groups in three separate countries. Spot of fora was essentially a medical version of Rambo as content to carry a gun as he was to save a life and he despised Noriega. He had been an outspoken critic of the military dictatorship since nineteen seventy five and he was the first person to publicly call. Noriega a drug smuggler and arms dealer in nineteen eighty one spot of for a head even worked with the district attorney in Miami to draw up gun smuggling charges against Noriega but his attempts to seek justice fell on deaf ears. Spotter fora was chased out of Panama by death threats from Noriega's men meanwhile in the United States the C. I. A. D. E. A. N. State Department had hampered every attempt by the Miami district attorney to press charges against Noriega. They made it clear that if he wanted a prosperous career he would drop his attempts to convict the dictator by Nineteen eighty-five however Dr Spot. A four was determined to return to Panama. And Fight Noriega once and for all. He believed if he could make it across the border. He stood a fighting chance of convincing the Panamanian people to join his cause on September thirteenth. Nineteen eighty-five Dr Spotter for got on a bus and crossed into Panama. He had only just made it across the border when the bus was pulled over by the Panamanian Defense Forces formerly known as the National Guard. A soldier asked spot a fora to get off the bus. He held up his. Id told the other riders his name and said that he was being detained illegally. He went willingly with the soldier believing he'd be detained and released too soon enough. But that wasn't going to happen. Fourteen soldiers took the doctor away and began a tour of torture. That would last for several hours. The next morning Costa Rican police found Dr Spot afforest torso in a US. Postal bag abandoned in a ravine. The soldiers had peeled off his fingernails broken. His ribs repeatedly raped him and finally beheaded him while he was still alive. Noriega believed killing. Spotter for would save him hassle but within twenty four hours hundreds of witnesses who had seen spot a for his arrest came forward to give statements to journalists both domestic and international. Ah Panamanian newspaper published the names of all fourteen soldiers involved in the incident. The witnesses whose names were published were severely punished threatened or taken into police custody but it was too late to cover it all up. International human rights organizations began keeping track of the acts of terrorism Noriega committed against his own people. Opposition leaders were mowed down in hit and runs. Soldiers had carte blanche to kill any person suspected of being a guerilla fighter Noriega soldiers began branding carving and tattooing their unit identifier. F. Eight into the bodies of anyone. They tortured in September. Nineteen eighty-five Noriega flew to New York City for a general meeting with the CIA official while he was gone President Barletta opened an official investigation into Dr Spot for his death. He naively believed the investigation. Would prove that Noriega had not been involved in the murder ten days later on September. Twenty Fifth Nineteen eighty-five Noriega return to Panama. Barletta was immediately summoned to Noriega's office. Barletta was detained for fourteen hours. While Noriega and his men pressured him to resign are letter that his faith in the dictator had been misplaced. The CIA orchestrated a call with Noriega to show President Barletta that they weren't coming to his rescue. They couldn't jeopardize their Latin American connections. For the sake of one man's murder there was nothing left to do but for Barletta to resign. His resignation confirmed for the Panamanian people. That Noriega had in fact ordered spot a for US murder with the growing public. Discontent American support was the only thing protecting Noriega from being removed from power. He now had to submit entirely to Washington's whims blowing up Nicaraguan military bases and assassinating Nicaraguan resistance leaders. Whenever he was asked even worse. These offers were officially recorded by. Us intelligence agencies. Even though Noriega had been doing these things for years he was now leaving a paper trail the assistant secretary for Latin American affairs. Elliot Atoms started keeping public records of all known interactions between the US and Panama he encouraged US officials to push for Noriega to turn over power to the civilian government meanwhile Noriega's allies in the US began quietly telling him to soften his image and slow down his illegal activities until the storm against him had blown over the US intelligence agencies. Were trying to protect him but he had to play along Noriega balked. He's still believe he was untouchable when the. Us State Department warned him to destroy any documents he didn't want found. Noriega just laughed. He would regret it. A Motley crew of politicians and journalists were about to begin toppling. The domino's that would lead to Noriega's end up next will finish up our story with Noriega's downfall now back to the story by Nineteen eighty-six after only three years as dictator. Manuel Antonio Noriega crimes had reached monstrous proportions. His war crimes and violence against his own people were becoming more difficult for US intelligence agencies to overlook us. Senator Jesse Helms had been moved to discuss by Dr Hugo spot for his murder but he was hard pressed to find anyone who would support sanctions against the dictator. Who CAUSED IT? He asked Dr Spotter for his sister to write an appeal to the Senate and tracked down proof that the US had helped oust. Panamanian President Barletta Senator John Kerry joined the fight. Making it a bipartisan effort. That was only the beginning on June twelve nineteen eighty-six journalist Seymour. Hersh wrote a lengthy expose about Noriega's crimes and human rights violations. It ran on the front page of the New York Times. Where no one could ignore it. In retaliation Noriega seized an American ship. Traveling through the Panama Canal to assert his power over the US. Of course this only succeeded in proving the senators and journalists correct the CIA tried to bury the story. But Senator Helms kept pushing in nineteen eighty six. He wrote a clause into the intelligence appropriations bill requiring the CIA to compile a report on Noriega's human rights abuses senators Helms and carry finally had the support and evidence. They needed to investigate. Noriega Noriega ignored the growing pressure entirely on August. Twenty second nineteen eighty eight. He threw a massive party to celebrate his fifth anniversary as military dictator. Two thousand guests arrived to drink. Laugh and burn effigies of Helms carry and journalist Seymour. Hersh in front of Panama's legislative building rebel groups pointed at the Lavish Party as of his corruption. Noriega burn newspapers tortured and branded resistance leaders in clamped down on civil liberties but he couldn't entirely silence his critics. It went on like that. For nearly three years with Noriega's cruelty growing every day neither rebels nor the Americans could gather enough supporters and evidence to bring him down then on December fifteenth nineteen eighty. Nine Noriega finally tipped the balance. He declared himself maximum leader of Panama and suspended the Constitution entirely. This was one overreach too. Many within a few hours news came in that there would be a coup orchestrated not only by Noriega's own soldiers who had finally grown tired of his brutality but also by the Americans who had been deeply embarrassed by him in the face of the Senate Investigation Noriega has sent his most loyal soldiers out to defend his compound. They put up roadblocks aim their AK47's and searched any cars that came their way a little after nine pm the next night. Four American Marines made a fatal wrong. Turn down a street Noriega soldiers had blockaded unable to back out the marines could only sit and wait as the soldiers surrounded them screaming slurs and threats when the car ahead of them moved forward. The marine sped way down the street. Noriega's men to fire bullets pierced the car and struck one of the Marines in the back. The driver sped away. He had no idea where the nearest hospital was. Back at the roadblock a passing American couple accidentally wandered too close. They were duct taped and taken for interrogation. The soldiers repeatedly punched the husband in the Groin. Prying for information about the Marines who had sped away? They told him if he didn't talk they would take turns raping his wife when they realized a couple of didn't know anything. The soldier's release them but the damage had already been done. The couple immediately reported what had happened to. Us officials across the city. The wounded marine died from blood loss. Only minutes after reaching a hospital a few days later these two incidents would trigger the largest. Us invasion since the Vietnam War on December Eighteenth nineteen eighty nine three days after declaring himself. Maximum leader Noriega heard from his last remaining allies in. Us intelligence that something big was coming. Noriega was on borrowed time the next day Soviet spies watching us. Military bases warned Noriega that the Americans were on the move. Noriega fled his compound to hide out with the few friends he had left it. Powerful leader was reduced to shuffling from house to house in the back of a beaten up car. He had to crawl across the floor on his belly. Out of sight of the windows his bodyguards were now dictating where he could go whether he could stand and whether he could use the phone. Two days later on December twentieth nineteen eighty nine two planes with precision firepower flew. Low over Noriega is now vacant compound and obliterated it two dozen. American soldiers were sent to secure the location even though it was already rubble. The fight continued in the streets. Noriega soldiers threw Molotov cocktails and grenades at US tanks as they rolled down the street of the twenty four American soldiers on the ground. Twenty one were injured but the US was just getting started. When the men fought near the compound to separate parachute assaults took control of military checkpoints throughout the area cutting off any reinforcements that might try to retake the capital transport planes air force fighters paratroopers and attack helicopters. Rained down from the sky. Over twenty seven thousand troops touchdown in Panama. In a matter of a few days it was clear the Panamanians were outnumbered. Most of Noriega soldiers simply gave up many fled before. Us troops had even arrived. Meanwhile Noriega was slithering across the floors of safehouses powerless. To defend himself. He knew his time was up. His wants absolute power was gone in a final desperate attempt to avoid punishment he turned to the Vatican for clemency and protection. From the United States Noriega managed to flee to Vatican City where the embassy agreed to shelter him for a time. He spent his Christmas safe within their walls but the US soon found out where he was. They surrounded the Vatican embassy blasting heavy metal music from their loudspeakers to move things along the embassy. Eventually Turn Noriega over on January third. Nineteen ninety when all was said and done. The invasion of Panama Cost twenty-six American lives and over three hundred Panamanian lives though some sources claim there. Were as many as seven thousand. Civilian Casualties Noriega faced charges in the US France and Panama for various crimes including drug and gun trafficking and human rights violations. He spent the rest of his life shuffling between prisons in all three countries before dying during brain surgery on May twenty ninth. Two thousand seventeen at the age of eighty three. The US invasion of Panama ended a reign of terror by a small man who governed with torture. But it's important to remember. This story isn't about a benevolent world. Power Saving Panama from a bloodthirsty tyrant. It's about a tyrant who outgrew his usefulness to the World Power. He'd been answering to along for better or worse. The success of the invasion also encouraged the US to continue its policy of invading and toppling foreign governments when they became hostile to US interests. It also succeeded. In finally dismantling the Panamanian military dictatorship on February thirteenth nineteen ninety the Panamanian Defense Forces were decommissioned. The country's new police force would be unarmed and control of the country would rest with the civilian government. Tony Noriega's rule had been one of incredible highs and lows but in the end. His allegiance to power and money over his own. People led to his undoing. He was reduced to a lonely and powerless. Man Forced to watch his glory fade as he fell into obscurity. Thanks again for listening to kingpins. You can find kingpins as well as all of our casts other podcasts on Apple podcasts spotify stitcher. Google play cast box for your favorite podcast directory. Many of you have asked how to help the show. And if you enjoyed this the best way to help is to leave a five star review. We'll see you next time. Kingpins was created by Max Cutler and is a production of cutler media and is part of the podcast network it is produced by Max and Ron Cutler sound designed by Michael Lang's ner with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Paul Moller Additional Production Assistance by Maggie admire and Carly Madden. Kingpins is written by Jordan. Tr- appear and stars Kate Leonard. And how will it remember if you enjoy these episodes in? WanNa hear more. Tales of history's most powerful criminals. Follow the podcast series kingpins on spotify new episodes premiere every Friday? Listen free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Manuel Antonio Noriega Noriega Panama Tony Noriega United States Panama Omar Torrijos National Guard Panama Torrijos CIA president President Barletta Panamanian Defense Forces Panama Canal Treaty Shah apple murder Panama Canal spotify
#243 Mike Durant

First Class Fatherhood

29:26 min | 1 year ago

#243 Mike Durant

"Lace Waltham too. I glass fatherhood. got a Black Hawk down. We've got a Black Hawk down. Welcome everybody to so to forty three of the podcast. I am happy. There's always to be here with you. Thank you for stopping by. If this is your first time listening to a podcast please get over. There and back not subscribe button. Do Not WanNa miss all the action that it's coming your way right here on first-class first class fatherhood all right. That's very special guests with me here today. If you have ever seen the movie Black Hawk down then you're in for a real treat night stalker pilot Mike Durant was shot down some all your back in nineteen eighteen ninety three when he was flying a Black Hawk helicopter he was taken prisoner for eleven days before being released and he retired from the army as Chief Warrant Officer for Black Hawk. Helicopter Master has there aviator in the legendary one hundred sixty at sore. It is a huge honor for me to have him on the podcast with me here today. Mike durant will be here in just a few minutes so please stick around for the interview and this interview is very special for me. Not only because I've seen the movie at least one hundred times I have read the book Black Hawk down by Mark Bowdoin and I have also read Mike. The Rams Book in the company of Heroes which which is just a phenomenal read. Mike Durant took part in several major operations including operation just cause in which the Panamanian leader Manuel Noriega was captured and Mike goes into great detail in the book about what it's like the night stalker pilot and they are the best of the best in the special operations aviation game and it goes without saying that I highly recommend the book in the company of Heroes and the link to it will be in the description of today's podcast episode and I do remember watching the drama of the battle of Mogadishu unfold on TV back in nineteen ninety-three when I was just thirteen years old which is the age of my oldest son now and I remember seeing the bodies of Delta Operators Gary Gordon and Randy sugar are being dragged through the streets bolt of them responsible for saving Mike the Ranch life and they died heroes. I also remember seeing the video of Mike durant himself being held captive and as a matter of fact you guys know just how much I admire the navy seals and read all their books. I Navy seal book that I ever read was. Howard widens seal team six book. He was part of a four man seal team. That was present in the battle. Mogadishu and I'm going to have another navy seal with me here. For a frogman man Friday edition of First-class Fatherhood Former Navy seal Chris Gomez will be here with me on Friday so lock in for that and tomorrow. We're going to go back to the football field with eleven year. NFL wide receiver ever TJ Huffman's Outta all right so let's go dad's please shared his podcast with every the India neighborhood or in your contact list. Let them know about the show that is celebrating fatherhood and Family Life Fatherhood Hood rocks family values rule in every day Fathers Day right here with me and I'm GonNa be right back with legendary night stalker pilot Mike Durant. I'm Alex Lace and you're listening to I last fatherhood all right. That's first-class. Fatherhood is being brought to you today by Manscaping who is number one in men's below the belt grooming manscaping offers precision engineered tools for your family jewels. They sent me their lawn mower two point. Oh and I wish they had something like this years ago. I can't tell you how many times I've nicked my nuggets in the shower while shaving and you definitely don't want to be using using the same razor on your face that you're using down there on the two amigos the lawnmower two point. Oh is an electric trimmer with skin safe technology. It's waterproof so you can use it in the shower so let's go dad's right now. First Class Father who listeners are getting twenty percent off their entire order plus free shipping by using the Promo Code father go to Manscaping Dot com enter the Promo Code Father at Checkout Save Twenty percents off and get free shipping may escape Dot Com Promo Code Father all right joining me. Now is a first class father. He is a retired chief warrant officer for combat veteran his awards awards included the Distinguished Flying Cross with Oak Leaf Cluster Bronze Star with valor the Purple Heart Three air medals the prisoner of war medal and many others it is tremendous honor for me to say Mike durant welcome to First-class Fatherhood thank you it was pleasure to be here all right. Let's start here. How many kids do you have. And how old are they well. My wife and I have raised six. three of those are mine. three of those. I got as part of a package the deal when I remarried the oldest is thirty one and their sort of cluster together. They're in their twenties and then our youngest just turned fifteen. Wow okay yeah. That's a big a big range there. I got four myself. We're going from thirteenth to five so I got a little ways to go yet. We're bracing for impact your teenage years well. We had pretty good luck with it for the most part but there's there's a lot of curve balls can come your way in that time. That's for sure. Well definitely all this information. I mean getting here and help me out but if you could just take a minute here to hit my listeners but a little bit about your background and what you do well my background background is. I was a special OPS Black Hawk pilot. I spent twenty two years in the military. I suppose the most recognizable thing for the average person is ah the guy who was shot down in Somalia at movie Black Hawk Down is all about and of the real life guy not the actor and Joe Awesome career you know I it would take me days to talk about just those life experiences in what what kind of impact all that had on me a retired in two thousand and one and that Saas also the same year I was remarried and we moved to Huntsville Alabama where we currently live been here now eighteen years and eleven years ago. I started my own business so I took some of the things that I learned from for my experiences in life in general in the military and apply those to commercial venture here. We're doing pretty well actually yeah your story is just incredible and I and of course live obviously seen the movie and I've Read Your Book in the company of Heroes and I thought it was just a you know phenomenal. I'M GONNA get more into that in just a minute here. But how old were you when you first became a father and had to becoming at that kind of change your perspective on life so first child was born one year before we deployed Somalia so I I was thirty two when and my first son was born so I've seen you know you. You've interviewed a lot of folks that have deployed a lot in special special ops type operators and they probably have all said the same thing when you're in that kind of a unit in your trying to raise a family. It's it's a bit of a challenge because you're gone a lot and you really have to rely heavily on those around you obviously if if you are married your your your spouse is critical because you know you're gone in a moment's notice in oftentimes you're gone for three months you know in some cases longer than that and and that's really tough especially during critical times when you Miss Birthdays holidays you miss school events whatever it is so it's a very very difficult challenge and and I think it takes extraordinary people to do it successfully and it takes a village. It really does it. It cannot be done alone in those circumstances. Yeah Adam sure you've heard me say to on the show. Mike it's just one of the biggest reasons why I have so much respect one of the reasons why I have so much respect for all you guys and women that serve just because I can't imagine how hard it would be to try to balance that out between having a family and doing such a you know an important important and you know a job that takes so much of your focus and you spent eleven days in captivity in Somalia. What would it children like their Mike as opposed to like kids here era families there what we're like the relationship between the kids and the data that you see over there so it's funny when you break people down to their basic elements we have so much much in common. You know you would think when you first look at at Mogadishu. It's like another planet really I mean for those of us. Who Live here here in cities of comparable size. It's it's just completely different but once you get inside and you see how people interact and and how children children behave and how they play in the street. It's it's all the same. I did not see a lot of interaction between fathers and their children but you could sense. Is that the family relationships were were very similar. You know the young people look to the older people elders for life lessons and mentorship shipping values and all the same things that that impact our youth here impact the youth there and very well said and Did you feel comfortable letting your kids edge. See the movie when it came out. What are your thoughts about the film so we really don't talk about it. You know it's if they if they want to see hit their free to see it. I know some of them have and some of them haven't if they wanna read the book for Free Read. The book that's their decision but we've sort of put it off on the side and and don't really ever even talk about it. It's it's not something you know if they if they wanNA know something. I'm I'm happy to talk to him but it's just it's just a different phase of life in There's there's just so much more that occupies our time in our thoughts today today that we really don't spend any time even even discuss yeah yeah and it must be difficult soon like I mean you've had you had a twenty two year military career and obviously you know your you're most known for the Black Hawk down incident but you continue to serve for so long after that. What was it like for you. Serving in the service after that incident was it something that always came name was the kind of respect the fact that it was like you're you're moving on from it so they left it alone a lot. You know people were constantly looking for are lessons learned and you know because if you think about it if you look at the time line that happened in ninety three we didn't get involved in a global war on terror in two thousand thousand one so we had eight years where there wasn't a lot of combat experienced people were really looking at that mission to to pull as much as they possibly it could out of it. I would I would say even today that particular battle and you know my personal experience in the personal experience of many others there that day is still scrutinize is because even today after all that's gone on in Iraq and Afghanistan. There are some unique elements there that we still need to leverage and learn from so for that eight years until my retirement there was an awful lot of pull on all of us to try to share our perspective then try to help make the the the military better and I think we did I. I've always said that there was one thing that I would say was positive about Somalia is that we had an opportunity community to look at it and understand the challenges involved in fighting and that kind of environment for eight years before we had to do it on a much larger scale in multiple locations and I think we were better prepared for the global war and they're very well said getting back to you as a dad here Mike I mean I've seen you speak week before. you know just through watching your seminars there on youtube and stuff like that. You're obviously very well disciplined in the military. what type of disciplinary are you like as a father well. I think I'm certainly lead by example kind of father. I I absolutely a subscriber of the you know walk the walk mentality and in matters much more what you do than what you say Ah In terms of discipline you know. I think that we've been fortunate in that. We haven't had a lot of discipline problems. We've got one out liar but you know it was. I just I consider it a phase and we've gotten through all that you know give you an example. We want our kids that invite invite some friends to Lake House that we have in there was alcohol involved and we found out about it and we had the option to come down really hard on her or Try to make a life lesson out of it and and we we chose to make life lesson out of it and explain to hurry. Look you know this is wrong. YOU PUT US at risk. I mean you got underage kids out here consuming alcohol who there's water here drowning risks. There's there's driving risk. Think about all the things that you put at risk for us. When we you know everything we do in our life is is built around and try to help you be successful and we don't want this to create a situation where you know we punish you for a period of time and treat create resentment we we want you to learn from this mistake and we we willing to forgive you and we want you to you know to say you'll never do this again. And I think it was one of the better decisions we ever made actually because she appreciated the way we handled it. She learned from her mistake. It didn't happen again and she turned into a fantastic young woman yeah very cool. It's definitely one of the things that concerns my wife and I is our kids are just starting to get the teenage years and and I drive on the weekends and I drive a lot of college kids around. There's a local college here and it's from what I see the decisions that are going on and what they're doing. It's it gives me pause and you know I definitely WanNa. Make sure that I don't punish too much where they don't don't WanNa. Come and talk to me and be honest about what's going on. That's really the biggest fear that I have when it comes to parenting absolutely and that's the that's the risk you take. If you are a little bit too harsh I'm not I'm not suggesting guessing you don't discipline it all but you know needs to be fair and needs to be measured in. I think you need to find a balance between how hard you WANNA come down and still protect that relationship because it is it is critical that you have that good communication and that relationship throughout life through all the different phases which you know how you deal with it and and how you communicate with a four year old is obviously dramatically different than when you do when you're communicating with seventeen year old or twenty year old very well said all right. Dad's the NFL season is now upon us and the Major League baseball season is winding down. There is no no better time to take your kids to the ball game and first-class father who listeners can save twenty dollars off their tickets on SEATGEEK DOT COM by using my Promo Code First Class. That's it's one word first-class. Maybe WanNa see a concert or Broadway. Show Save Twenty Bucks on tickets on seatgeek. Dot Com use the Promo Code First Class. It's a slam dunk dunk deal. Dad's SEATGEEK DOT COM Promo Code First Class. Fatherhood is the best seat in the house. All right is many of you have hit me up saying that you would like to start your own podcast and I am telling you right now. Anchor is the easiest way to get this done number one. It's free I have never paid a dime to publish any of my podcasts and their creation tools allow you to record and edit right from your phone or your computer anchored those all the distribution as well so it can be heard on spotify apple podcasts and many more also you can make money with no minimum listenership. It's everything you need to make a podcast in one place. I what are you waiting for download the free anchor APP today or go to Anchor Dot FM to get started and I read your book in the company of Heroes and that came out in two thousand three a couple of years after the movie Were you approach to write the book or is that something that you had planned on doing what was the genesis. Have you coming out with your book so I I really respected the whole secrecy of the Special Operations Community and and I wrote down some notes about the mission drafted some thoughts right after it happened and then I put it away because I didn't feel like it was appropriate to even consider writing something about operations that were so recent that you know to me that just wouldn't right thing to do well after the movie came out. I I realize well I mean basically the whole mission stories on the street at this point and now I have sort of an individual story that has not been told and I think I can't tell it and not worry about you know ten years years ago and by and and there's really not a lot of operational specificity that matters at this point you know ten years in the future so I thought you know what I think he's probably going to be okay to do it at this point and I I saw it out some mentors that were senior leaders in the community and they said you know what I don't think anybody's GonNa give you any any any grief for writing a book at this point so that's when I reached out to to find a publisher and an agent and it was great a great experience it turned out really well and very proud of it and I have no regrets about doing it at this point for sure yeah. It's definitely a book. I think just about about everybody. Every American should read. He tells a wonderful story and I did any of your kids ever take up flying or helicopters or any other type of flying at all so we have talked about it and my my theory is this. I retired when they were all pretty. Young in the world they know really really is Huntsville Alabama. which is an engineering town? I mean it's it's compared to Raleigh North Carolina or the beltway I mean the there's just a lot of engineers here. There's a lot of aerospace but it's not on the it's not on the flying side. It's on the technology side so we've got their their interests have been more in that direction and we haven't necessarily want to hold them back from flying serving in the military but there's not really been a lot of interest from any of them in doing that and that's fine. I wanted to do whatever they're interested in. you know it's funny our youngest who's now L. Fifteen. I went to a parent child. space camp which people are familiar with the it's. SORTA sister course at the same facility what he called aviation challenge listeners out there not heard about this look it up because it's a tremendous opportunity for a parent child relationship building you go there. Can you bunk together and it's basically aviation challenges a mini flight school. I mean we learned about aerodynamics. We did evasion. We we flew simulators. Oh you plan missions all of that lasts about four days total and I did this with our younger. I did it with one of the girls and then I did it with our youngest Michael also and he wrote I guess it's now six years later in a in a an essay for school. Now these high school what influences decision to want want to pursue the career he wants to pursue and my wife and I were trying to speculate about what he would pick you know he he would pick because she's a pilot also he would pick well. You know my parents both pilots so I I got I was interested in aviation or you know this or that but what he wrote about was I went to aviation challenge with my dad and I got interested in being an aerospace engineer and that's what he wanted to be now for since we started talking about career decisions and just it's really rewarding. I suppose is the right word to to realize years down the road that that is the event in his life when he thinks back that that pushed him in this direction and again great program. There's lots of you know. Similar programs like that out there but that one in particular is really a good one and gives you a chance to really spend some quality time with the kids yeah very cool. I'll throw a link to that in the description of this podcast episode so malices I just have to like they want to find out more about it. What about like as far as you know becoming a night stalker. I it's usually now today especially with the Navy seals being in the public. Everyone writing books books like years ago not many people knew about a lot of these special operation forces like seals like the night stalkers and all this stuff. When did you first become aware of what a night stalker was. Was it when you were a child. How long did you really want to beat out or that. Come after you joined the service and found out it's kind of funny I was just thinking about this the other day and and and this is the actual moment when I found out about this unit. I was in Korea already on the flight school I wanted I wanted to fly and I went when I was pretty pretty young graduated flight school at twenty two so I think that I look at twenty two year olds now and I don't mean to sound condescending or whatever but it just it seems is young to be in charge of a military aircraft flying missions you know in a foreign country but but I was and I was I loved it. It was the fulfillment the dream I'd have since I was about fourteen and I was sitting in a bar with this guy who just come from Fort Campbell and he's talking about this special unit there. Nobody's supposed to know about that is is looking for people that you want to do these classified missions and work with these special units and and I'm like wow I mean. I know that kind of thing existed. I really really like to know more about that. So when I got assigned to Fort Campbell the first thing I did this figure out where in the heck these guys weren't located over there and feel about an application and and I guess you could say the rest is history so you're right at the time there was not a lot of information nation of people knew about Special Forces and people knew about Navy Seals in general but they didn't know about some of these sort of subsets within within those groups that were you you know even you know a tear tear up in terms of the secrecy and the sensitivity of missions and all that and it's a it's certainly something something I'm proud to say I was a I was a small part of in a really exciting part of my professional life and there's no doubt that there's you know on number of kids is that have been inspired to become pilots based on your book and the movie and Obviously Gary Gordon and Randy sugar both were awarded posthumously the medal of honor honor after they were killed into Somalia incident there. Gary had a couple of kids. I'm not sure about Randy. Do you still stay in touch with those families or anybody else that was connected to the raid so I I've seen the families every now and then I saw them again. it's Fort Bragg I think it was about a year ago. Now I was down there for a memorial and No rainy did not have any kids Gary Gary did have to and they were both there and they're they're both doing yeah well as far as keeping in touch you know we tend to stay in touch more with the folks that were in our part of the operation so I'm I'm almost in daily. Contact with the with the guys not so much. you know some of the other units that we support it although like I said when we do a reunion reunion or or whatever I've I've tried to all those I think I made them all and it's it's always great to see those folks and see see how well everybody's doing. Unfortunately we're all getting a little bit older but you know it's life and we just gotTa enjoy every moment that weekend yeah and I know that right. Now are political atmosphere atmospheres a total nightmare but anything that you've ever considered throwing your hat into the political arena at all or is that off the radar for you off. The radar just doesn't consumed my personality. I just can't do it and I know that's probably the kind of people we'd say well. That's what we want and doing it but unfortunately I don't think in our system works I I think you have to be you know of a certain personality and and value system to do it and and do and win you know in the end you have to win you could be you know the most honest down to Earth good intention person in the world but if you don't win it doesn't accomplish anything thing and and I just don't see how I could possibly do it. I really don't you know I don't even I tell people. I don't even like the politics business. I can't imagine the politics of Politics Yeah right on with that. What type of goals are playing. Do you have your for yourself but if you might well you know finish it up the job at hand Dan. Which is the family. you know we have one left at home and he's doing well. He's the one I was just talking about that. We went to challenge together. he's been the easiest so far. Mar in I hope we stay on that. Trend the you know he's he's. GonNa be off to college in about two and a half more years. You know here here professionally. I'm SORTA targeting that same timeframe to start throttling back a little bit. It's you know I've been. CEO here for eleven years and there's a lot there's is a lot to that. It's it's it's it can be all consuming. I don't think I've let it be all consuming but it can be and it is somewhat stressful and you gotTa build a you know find that work life balance and I think my family would say that I've done that. I've tried pretty hard to do that but you know I also If you WANNA have a little bit more time to enjoy the things that I like. We've purchased a place in Colorado. We're playing expensive time out there. Just loved the mountains I grew up in the mountains in New England and the the winter in Colorado's a little bit more tolerable than the winter in New England and and so we plan and to spend you know maybe half the year up there and quite a few mountains and keep skiing and those sorts of things and and watching grandchildren girl up and income visit as often as the yeah good stuff all right my last thing. I'm GonNa hit you with here. I love to ask all the DADS. I got on the PODCAST. What type of advice do you half of that new father or for ought to be dad. WHO's out there. Listen Nice. I guess the best advice maybe would come from the things that I don't do. Well that that I try to do better at. I think men tend to be fixers. I've I've heard this from a couple of different folks at least about my personality that you know we we we. We think you know very straightforward. Direct solution to a problem. We'll we'll we'll solve it and we're dealing with people when we're when we're trying to be a father and and people don't always react the same way to the same thing so we need patience. We need understanding when you listen and we need to. I love and I think if you approach it in those terms you know the specifics. Don't matter I it. You'll ah you'll find a way to be successful but if you know if you're overly harsh or if you are not trying to have a relationship with your child if you you know don't prioritize it then then. It's probably not going to go well they they. They need your leadership your ship. They need your mentorship. They need your values and they need your time and if you're willing to give all that you'll be successful yeah very well sad and loved him message. This has been a big honor for me. I gotTa say Mike Durant. You're a first last father all the way. Thank you so much for giving me a few minutes off First Class Fatherhood my pleasure back to wrap things up here. You're on first class fatherhood. I got to give a special. Thank you once again to Mike Durant for giving me a few minutes of his time. Here was an incredible honor. Pleased me up on twitter. Guys dropped me that on instagram. Let me know about today's that is episode. I always loved to read your feedback and do yourself a favor tap the link in the description of today's podcast and check out Mike Durant's book in the company of Heroes. You guys are GonNa. Love it small on on the podcast. You're going back to the Gridiron here eleven year. NFL veteran wide receiver TJ which means auto joins me and Friday of course we have a frogman Friday edition of the show former Navy Seal Chris Gomez joins me here right. That's all I got for you guys today. I'm Alex lease. You have been listening to the first lady's fatherhood and please remember guys. We are not babysitters. We our fathers and we're not just fathers. We are first-class. Fathers solve down time I know.

Mike Durant DADS Mike Somalia Mike it NFL Mogadishu Chris Gomez Dad Gary Gordon Gary Gary Huntsville Randy sugar Helicopter Master Rams Howard Mark Bowdoin Manscaping Dot Manuel Noriega Officer
Brown Sound (Entry 158.MT1517)

Omnibus! With Ken Jennings and John Roderick

59:26 min | 2 years ago

Brown Sound (Entry 158.MT1517)

"Hello, I'm Kevin Pollack. Yes, that Kevin Pollack. What's that? I did save room for pie. Thank you. And may I offer you a slice of my new comedy podcast? It's called alchemy this. What the heck is that you ask? Well, easy on the custom. I've carefully handpicked five Larry's improvisers and each episode I set the scene and the comedy gold fills your life with undeniable joy. Alchemy this drops October eighteenth be the first to yell at your friends about Kevin Pollack's new comedy podcasts exclusively from how stuff works. On many more. And. This message we are Ken Jennings and John Rodrick we speak to you from our present, which we can only assume as your distant past, the turbulent time that was the early twenty first century during the great cataclysm that will surely befall our civilization, we began this monumental reference of strange and obscure human knowledge. These recordings represent our attempt to compile and preserve wonders and esoterica that would otherwise be lost. So whether you're listening from an advanced civilization or just reinvented the technology to decrypt our transmissions, this is our legacy to you. This is our time capsule. This is the honest bus. You have accessed and tree one, five, eight dot Mt. One, five one, seven certificate number four, two, nine, six, four. Brown sound. It was like it was like somebody was actually drumming on my chest and it was really intense. And the other thing was when you speak, oh, I could feel that just breathing. Those are still really long wavelengths. And so it is actually physically moving air in and out of your lungs as you breathe. What do you think the loudest sound you've ever heard? Can you think back on onto your life? And remember when you heard a sound so loud that you were uncomfortable. Was that a raven show the ravens Keno those guys Danish Danish Dutch Danish? It's the same country, pretty sure day Dane. From Holland Danish? Let's see. I, I remember the raven nets quite well, and I think they were. I'm going to say Dane, raven nets. It's going to be pain. Good job. You have control of the Ford. So they have kind of this dreamy kind of beautiful harmony sound, but then like really like droning loud kind of my body kind of guitar gone on and on the record. It's just such a relaxing. Listen, I got show up at the show at the crocodile with now. Your plugs are anything. Just thinking it's going to be an ambient. I'm going to be swaying like I've never swayed before getting your happy Mondays on a door, a state of wake sleep. Instead. It is this sonic assault, and I stood in multiple parts of the room and it was insanely loud everywhere. And I had just been led to believe that I would not need to bring production. I'm too old for this sort of thing. You were led to believe that or you just assumed you wouldn't believe by my own MRs. Sumptious. Right. So I'm sure I've heard I've, I've been near a helicopter or a plane or something that was louder or maybe just the silence after a failed joke. That's so loud. I've never actually happened to me, but I've seen it happen to others. So comforted, but you were experiencing what you low notes rather than the shrieking highs loud notes, loud, high pitched notes, like a jet engine, having a very different affect on one then then it's true. I was much more of our kind of a rumble right well, so that rumble affect that low low reverberate pitch that affects you bodily. What was that? I just had a very low low rumbling. I hope that made it onto the microphone that was well timed well place. It was actually our producer check asking about our on boarding call. Really? He's he's concerned, oh, I thought maybe you were sort of playing out our biblical quote for this episode through your own corpus, but that affect that you felt of the low frequency reverberating kind of within your within your body, right? You're not here. It's not loud so much in your ears, although it is that. But also you were feeling it as a as a cresting wave and that physical effect has inspired people over many years to imagine that there's a sound, a low sound, low frequency that at a significant enough volume could actually do damage to the human body. And is this kind of, is there evidence for this or is this kind of magical? Thinking like because there's a tradition in storytelling that there are certain sounds. That will accomplish certain things, whether it's Alibaba, saying, open sesame, or do you know the lost chord the the song by Sir, Arthur Sullivan of governance ullivan. It's about a guy playing on his piano and he suddenly accidentally hits an amazing sound that just transports him mystically, and spiritual. It's, it sounds like a great Ahmen and then he can never recapture that moment of bliss that he found. I feel like that happens every time I sit at the piano tinker around and then it's like I- -ccomplish an amazing amend and then I go to record it and it doesn't sound like an Ahmen, but is it because you don't remember it? No. All had the exact same corden. The men is just not there because I feel like this, which by the way was the hugest hit of the Victorian era. This is uptown funk or the song of the summer eighteen eighty five. This is huge. It's just a song about a forgetful guy and is it in the sheet music the an attempt to create this, this magic true tricky to write the tricky to write the music for a mystical cord. That probably doesn't again talking about gas leading. It's like you're sitting at the piano like, oh, it's coming. It's coming, not happening, not the song will not contain the loss court or wouldn't be lost anymore. But there has been throughout history right? Sound played a role in warfare. You've got the Israelites blasting their trumpets of Jericho. That's right. So the walls actually fall down the walls fall down according to the bible. And are we thinking this is actually some kind of wave former there are there you would know better than I, whether or not the bible was literal truth? What I'm seeing is are there like a and e. specials about the science behind Jericho? No, I think it's generally accepted that it was just some loud trumpet playing that scared, scared people behind the walls. But then warfare has always used every means that their disposal including. Menacing beating of drums, blaring horns, shouting. I mean, there's been a sonnet component that is usually meant to strike fear in the hearts of your enemies. Wonder how recently there were drummer's drummer in every company because that's also kind of a. It's the same as drummer in a band. Everybody knows what to do at what time and drummer could communicate over vast distances and communicate maneuvers right of troops. What if your whole company get slaughtered at Shiloh or whatever? Because the drummer sped up or the drummer started to do something a little funky swing into it and you're like, what am I supposed to do now? But it's true in an era before electron of communication you could only communicate with if you were commander, communicate with large numbers of troops, either through flags or runners or most efficiently through drum guy with a drum practice. I don't understand the fife. I mean, that makes clear why you have the drought sure why you need the second guy with the fife is just the drummer being like this needs something man. Well, there weren't that many instruments that were loud enough to get over the top of a drum. Like if you had a saxophone player, I instrument get clogged dirt, right? A fife is very simple instrument guy like cleaning his read. That weird thing is now trying to get his oboe to like soften-up. You don't have to worry about. I'm brochure when there's bullets whizzing by your head and an acoustic guitar just wouldn't be like. That's antiwar material. Exactly. That's for when you're in a unitarian church. So you're saying the the five is very high, pick? It's high pitched it's loud and the pitch matters ride because drums are typically, I mean, snare drums in particular, pretty high frequency, pitches matter, John all pitches matter. But then based drum very low and low notes travel much further, our resident of greater distance because their way the wave form that they make through the air is a longer fatter wave, and it takes it takes longer to develop an travels further distances. I don't know if I believe your theory about the fight because the fife for five, five is the five hundred communicating anything, or is he going to imagine he could probably be like. It seems like he's just playing jonky tune. Well, when was the last time you went into battle with a revolutionary war era arm. Maybe you need a Johnny tune. Yeah, maybe that's what it takes to get. Men ready. I bet you if you were commanding a large group of troops on a battlefield like that you would use every means at your disposal including the fife. That's right. There were bagpipes, right? No, wrong -absolutely. There've been a piper out on a certain kind of Keltec or pick this battle. Well, I think there were bagpipes even. Bagpipe a still in UK formations. Maybe not in battle, but I think in World War Two, there were still people playing the bagpipes. Isn't there a famous special forces guy who played the bagpipes and fought with a bow and arrow and World War Two. That'll be another omnibus. John Rambo, I think John remember the part in Rambo three where he's got the bagpipes and Afghantistan well, there's that time in Rambo to where he blows up an entire waterfall with one bow and arrow, but no bagpipe no, he did not have a bagpipe. That's rowdy. Roddy piper. You're thinking. They live and can. To do both were sunglasses. No, right. That's Cobra. Okay. Never mind. But the Brown sound Brown Brown's. We've mentioned it here at twelve minutes into the show. This is I'm trying to trying to shore and we can break for lunch. Tighten up our show. We always say around. Does it take to. I think it might be, what am I? I think in singing in the rain. Have you seen singing in the rain? Of course the macguffin of the movie is sound film. They're all silent film actors who have to learn to talk for real right. Like this happen to realize a lot of actors did not make the transition and Gish at turned out had a. I want. Darling, I love you. They'll talk Godfried apparently. So there's a scene where they're all getting vocal training, and I think there's this kind of large woman and she keeps trying to get Jean Hagen shrill voiced romantically to use a wrong sounds. And of course. Sounds. So I think that's why we need to say. Sloane, the role, an art, but I cannot I cannot curl my tongue. And my tongue is a very. I would say inarticulate instrument should be the most articulate. It should part of your body. Right? Well, it's one of the perhaps. One of the reasons that I that I have difficulty with transliteration, different pronunciations. You're not a professional vocalist and broadcast, but you know you as a professional rock vocalist you are not asked to imitate anything else. You can just make your own sounds and people accept them. You can just go. And people go, he's got a really distinctive vocal sound. I feel like there must be rock vocalist who could roll a good are. There are plenty Freddie Mercury. I have something called a geographic tongue, which is. You have a geographic tongue. Geographic tone is a kind of tongue. So your tongue just leaves your mouth and explores the Amazon and the Arctic, it's really wonderful. My tongue has a little pith helmet and it. It's Drake's out no trying to convert the natives to the long winters. Yeah, we ends up with shrunken head on post. That's what happens to every geographic I've ever known what is geographic tongue. It's something called glut Seitis or migratory gloss site is it's just it's a condition where my tongue swells up under different when I eat different foods and it has my tongue has fissures in it. And this is why it's called geographic is your tongue looks like a land form. It does. It has a lot of a lot more surface area than normal person's tongue because it has deep canyons in it and and it's I wanted to Google earth of your tongue. It's a fatter tongue, and it doesn't. I can't curl it or do other little tricks with it, but like I can't guy your tongue. So it's kind of splotch iw. What what would you say that outline of it is supposed to look like? Do you see the the fishers Fisher down the middle on the side? You can't say this, which is your lucky honestly, if I but it's got a light colored spots in the middle island or continent. This splashing, this is part of the condition and it migrates. It's it's a different. I was about to say, what country do you think your your splotches for them? But it's a different splotch everyday? Yeah, my tongue changes, shape and constituency, and it has splotches that come and go on the side like the heavens. Yeah, that's right. That's right. It's I have a Milky Way in my mouth. I love to have my mouth. But this. Really irritated and my tongue. Sometimes we'll swell up to the point that I it's very uncomfortable. I have to stop eating. I have to kind of just wait for it to subside. Can you do this? No, I cannot do that thing where you curl your tongue to. I can't do that. I can't. Have you ever seek? I can't do any. Here's the thing where people can do some weird origami. Double you out. It looks like an orchid Georgia O'Keefe painting or something? No tummy is basically if you took a cowl liver and you cut it a long ways with a knife multiple times, and then I'm with you in my mouth. You lost except sometimes actually because I also have very big nipples, tiny nipples, but I have big. What are the potential tastebuds? Right. Really big, taste buds. They're like, and they will individually get swollen. It's not the greatest, but it's also not the worst. It's just what I've always had. It used to when I was a little kid, it would freak people out, but then I think there are enough people that understand what geographical here, the upsides as I understand it, you freak people out. That's all sometimes have to stop eating. Yep, you cannot roll your ours. Can't roll my RS glee or do any of the cool tongue. Things that people do. That doesn't seem to be a ton upside. I also can't do the like super good dad whistle where you put two fingers in your mouth and go, okay, I can't do that either, but I think it's just like I haven't put my mind to. I feel that I felt like that for a long time until I realized whatever you need to do with your tongue in that situation. I can't do what my dad's dad whistle is, and I think it's a Korean taxi whistle. So he wanted us increase you pinch your Laura, inhale, sharply. So you inhale are the next and it's really shrill Pfeiffer on Lexington and concord or whatever. Like cuts over every crowd in gang them town. And you're trying to get a cab, right? Or if you're my dad at the county fair trying to get his kids trying to wrangle his kids. That's what I want that whistled to do. I want to be able to communicate long this. My sister can do it, and it freaks me out that because she'll gather her kids this way. Right? Because she's got twenty eight children right. And I have nothing like that. No, I have to call them text them basically. That's my taxi whistle. I can do normal whistles pretty loud like I can go. Whistling has some tongue. So you've learned to overcome your handicap well, or. I think it isn't a handicapped when it comes to whistling. That's the life I can do lots of Johnny whistles. I can do whistles that aren't Jonty to can do sinister whistles, but I won't won't do. I would like to hear what you think do. Won't do it on the show. I don't want to scare. The rest of the show should just be, you know, I'm going to continue to talk about the Brown sound, which is a legendary sound. There was speculation that as we have the technology to make extremely loud, extremely low sounds because the range of human hearing is not the range of sonic capability, right? We know that whales communicate over great distances by making low frequency sounds lower than the human ear can perceive. We can hear frequencies between about twenty Hertz and about twenty kilohertz on the spectrum seems pretty good. It's pretty great, but there are thousands of Hertz. There are sounds below twenty Hertz that Wales and. Elephants. Make sounds that infrasonic infrasonic sounds that we, it's one of the reasons or one of the ways we speculate animals can hear before happened or or in the case of the the giant tidal wave that affected southeast Asia, all the animals fled the area, and this is somewhat apocryphal, but but you get very good at predicting bad outcomes that start with a rumble start with the robot. And that's not all bad that things that can many of the bad things that haven't even in my life have not started with a dim distant rumble. That's right. Your first marriage ended, and there was no, there was no rumble associated with it that you could hear, but for a stampede say or at sue NAMI. Hi, I'm Beth Newell from reduction, and I'm Peter mcnerney from the story. Pirates parents comedian and the hosts of we knows parenting. That's true. But here's the thing. If we're being honest, we don't really know that much about parenting. We do have a two and a four year old and we've managed to keep them alive. But seriously, is there a right way to do this? Are you asking me, Peter? I know you don't know the. You don't know the, I got nervous there each week we unpack what we know and don't know about how to raise kids. Well, our kids, we've never met your kids. So really, I don't know what to tell you. You want expert opinions, child, psychology, cool, parenting, hacks. I'm sure there's a show for that each week on our show. We hear our personal parenting triumphs and failure and failures. Failures because we knows parenting is hard. Maybe you can relate. You can find. We knows parenting on apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So the earth is a much better medium for transmitting sound over long distances, them areas you ever. Do you ever use this in your music you ever just amp down to the ground at Stonehenge and just play a rock and solo. There are bands as you mentioned, the raven nets do it, and my bloody Valentine famously, but a lot of the British shoe gaze bands took this as part of their sound, put big, big sub, woofers, onstage, and then make this extremely loud sonic assault as as part of their as part of their show. Sounds that you couldn't protect yourself against with merely earplugs because it was hitting you in the chest. It was affecting how you it's true chest plug. I need one of those things that empires were basically, and this is being transmitted through the air. Like if those sounds were being transmitted through water, for instance, they would be much they would have a much greater effect on you much more violent affect if I had taken the revenue that's and drowned them in quicksand. Well, you both have to be in quicksand. You couldn't just drown them and then stand up above and it wouldn't be the same. You'd feel it in your feet. I laugh, but this is the thing we talk about when the navy does deep water testing of explosives or or sonar, the dolphins hate it in the whales hated the. They hated and they hated at great. It's affecting them at long distances and not just dolphins and whales. Conceivably, all see. Life is used to hearing sounds within a certain range and quite a bit deeper sounds than than we can here with our ears because the medium that the sound is being transmitted and Ken animals. Also higher sounds famously the thing about dogs could hear that little whistle at the end of sergeant Pepper's we even have the phrase dog whistle. Dog whistle is right, which is back in a distant time when we used to have to pretend not to be racist to achieve high office in America. You can. You can set your little dog with loud and only your followers understand what people in the south. No, what I'm saying. Air bar. It's urban problem, but now we don't have to. Now you can just be like it's the Jews basically and a big. I mean, it's not good. All your fans will be like it's awful, but a huge percentage of the country will be like, Yup, thank goodness. Someone is finally say telling it like it is there was a brief period between nineteen eighty nine. And now when you couldn't say that, and now we're back to being able to say good times, but dog whistles were a real thing right? Getting plenty of sounds above twenty kilohertz that a lot of animals can hear the young people can hear higher, sounds people have you heard about this thing where they'll, they'll broadcast, what do you call it? If it's too high, if it's not infrasonic ultrasonic or sonic broadcast ultrasonic sounds outside like convenience stores because the teens will be annoyed by them and leave maybe without even knowing why there is some I heard from a good friend in just last night. As a matter of fact, a friend of mine named Reggie pace who has a band called the no BS brass band was playing here. And Seattle. And he said that young people now are using ultra sonic sound generated by their phones to communicate with each other around grown-ups who can't hear the sound. I heard this. So they'll be sitting in class and they'll send little. To each other, and everybody will get it and they'll know Morse code. I mean, who knows? I can't hear it. I mean, the dress looks like it's golden white to me. I don't even know what this blue and black dress looks like. So that is true. But there's another phenomenon, a phenomenon called the home, which is in certain situations, like in there was a Bristol. There was a famous home house that people reported making them feel extremely uncomfortable. It was affecting their sleep it. It was causing irritation. They could hear this hum that was imperceptible to most people and could not be detected with instruments. Do you have any if it was high end or low end or well, so most of the time a low end sound this was more it was more frequently perceived by middle aged people. Young people could very rarely could hear it elderly people. Also it was mostly people in their forties that complained about the hum. Well, we've. About mass Steria on this show before we were talking about dancing entry about dancing, many, is it possible that that's one of the one of the one of the explanations is potentially that it's just mass hysteria, you know, the the human ear generates its own tone. Sometimes I hear tones all the time. What's going on in there just will happen for awhile her non. It's something that you're is doing within itself. Just some vibration that causes a tone. You're like, oh, what is that about? But those tend to be kinda mid range tones. My first exposure to infra is getting you off on a because I've heard about this thing about low sound, causing anxiety. They'll put it in movie scores or whatever, while and this is a, this is a very real thing. There was a a paranormal researcher by the name of victims handy who was in a laboratory and reported feeling. He saw out of the corner of his eye, a ghost and when he turned to look at, it was gone, but he felt a tremendous. Sense of supernatural unease and he because he was a researcher, he paranormal researcher doing a laboratory. You know, this guy was in his Dan, which is his laboratory, and that's why like, what are you doing out in the garage? Again, I told you to do that dishes waiting those Stella d'oro breakfast treats. No, it was as a laboratory and the next day after feeling this ghostly presence, he was working on his fencing foil within his laboratory. He was fixing his foil, his very well-stocked, paranormal advertised guy. I mean, you don't know what a paranormal researcher is going to be up to. I know you walk around your neighborhood swinging at goes with a sword, so apparently did you get it from the Scott? No, no. We were independently researching the paranormal. This covered the best way to do it with a fencing foil. Well, he don't use pay. He had his pay in a clamp and the the blades started vibrating violently and rather than suspected that it was a ghostly presence. This paranormal researcher used science kicked out of the club and determined that there was a fan within the building that was vibrate. Eating at eighteen or or very close to nineteen kilohertz arms are very close to nineteen hurts is the bottom end right? And it was creating this low oscillated that vibrated his sword, but that he was feeling bodily and he realized that a lot of the time though or rather that that low low notes like that and and vibrating at a certain oscillation can create a feeling of disease or unease within a person that is very close to the feeling of having a supernatural experience. It will like the human. I will start to vibrate and give you the appearance of cloudy forms in your periphery because the actually get visuals. You get visual hallucinations because the is vibrating at this sort of hallucinate, Tori oscillation. But also the effect within the body is one of not just like intestinal unease, but. Actually, it conveys a presence, an unearthly and ominous presence. I so I came across this as a kid and I thought it was made up. I was reading these kids, mystery novels kinda like like Hardie Boys, but a little better encyclopedia Brown. Yeah, it's about that era. The three investigators, I remember them. I didn't read them their three kids from southern California, and they're better. They're written by the gimmick is that Alfred Hitchcock is their benefactor. The real director, Alfred Hitchcock is interested in these kids and helps present their cases. I'm how. Which he's a fictionalized Hitchcock doesn't even make sense. Of course, as long as a Hollywood director is helping me and my middle school friends publicize our little mystery adventures. What's he doing? If you were going to have a newsletter, we're going to have a corpulent benefactor. Why not have Winston Churchill sure or get a newspaper editor are right arse. Right? Somebody writing for the daily planet anyway, but their ideas that having Hitchcock on their side is very big for these kids who live in a fictional suburb and in their very and it was written. I think by some of these pulp writers that worked for Hitchcock's mystery magazines. So they're very well written for the kind of they're super popular in Germany to this day, even though their out of print in the us anyway. The very first book is kind of a haunted house that they're determined to debunk, but they can't even get close to it because every time they go in this place, they feel this intense sense of rising panic that they can't point to any reason for and the solution to the mystery. And this is in the early sixties. I think turns out to be somebody is blaring. Which was lower in for sound at the kids. So this was a known paranormal thing in children's literature in the sixties apparently. And there's a lot of speculation that haunting and a lot of these things can be explained by the presence of most cases unwitting presence of low oscillating sounds because we have factories that are emitting these low low tones and quite a few of these hums like there were some hums in Windsor, Canada that it kind of was revealed. We're coming from factories in Detroit, big mechanical processes that were that were vibrating. The Canadians were so happy that they can blame America. Oh, yeah. Well, in the acid rain to there was one famously here in west Seattle, the west Seattle home. I can see why they would call it that. Yeah, I guess it stands to reason. No, actually the west Seattle home is from Pasadena, California. That's just saying, well, the west Seattle home, it. It turned out was a fish mating call what kind of fish. There's a fish called the midshipman fish, which lives in the mud and has a lot of little numbers on its back that looked like the like your tongue. No. Well, like my tongue, but also the brass buttons on the front of a midshipman tuning. The midshipman fish being very unusual fish. There are female, midshipman fish women, and then there are two Kant, two entirely different kinds of male. Midshipman flies that weird, John genders a spectrum. It's not weird, but it is. It's unusual in that they the two types male one and male to use entirely different strategies stratagem for attracting a meat midshipmen, male fish type. One are eight times larger than male midshipman type twos, mill Shipman, male, mid. Shipman fish type twos have genitalia, which are eight times larger than male midshipman fish type ones. So there are three sexes are female grower and shore. This is not too different that this is true if you've ever been in a locker room that there are two types of male midshipman fish there, but it turned out that they were down in the mud going. The big guy are. That was reverberating and bothering people in west Seattle. I feel like people need to be more accepting like we're good progressives here. If the Fisher getting up to all kinds of shenanigans of mud, we just need to be like, well, it's not hurting me. It seems like they're consenting mid-ship men and women. Most of the old school progressives of west Seattle or starting to move to Buren, and they're being replaced with much more accepting west Seattle lights who maybe not coincidentally are making a lot more money to if the, if the is supposed to explain haunted houses and whatnot. Here's my question John. How do you explain slammer. Well is very problematic. So I try not to explain what kind of vibration is going to make me see slime. Is a ghostly apparition. You know, you're, you're adding on your own anxieties to the vibrating clouds that you see on the on. The periphery of there is no frequency that pretty slime slammer is in youth. Yes, I'm afraid I was the real slime Raleigh. You the slime or you want to be like a fat green old man. A fat green was inside of me as well there. There is a lot of evidence that sound can be not just create discomfort, but can be actually damaging there have been experiments as you can imagine. We are. We're often talking about scientists taking rats and really punishing them taking them to rate on that shows if you broadcast super loud sound at mice between the frequencies of seven hundred kilohertz all the way up to three point, six megahertz. Explode. It does tremendous actual physical damage to their intestines, and this is specifically the intestine. That's interesting. Well, resonant. Part of me vibrates in laugh. Laughed like a bowl, full of jelly within the core of your body. You know your that is the place at which you are the most liquid, right? Your your testicles. Stomach area is where you know where you are the most because of the stuff I'm digesting. There's hardly any bone there. You're just supported on on several bags of glue, p- and glop. I'm getting to the point where I don't need a sound cannon, like just getting out of a car. I will start at two jig parts of my midsection. And so that is somewhat behind the idea that you could with sufficient power sufficient sort of electrical power because you'd need quite a bit of it to generate a sound this loud and this low that you could create a sound called the Brown sound, which would penetrate the human body and cause you to involuntarily defecate. This is why it's called Brown, just because poop is Brown. Well, Brown sound has been used to describe these kind of low sounds because they just if you're going to put a color spectrum to sound, if you are a cynic Thete. Just seem Browner than it's not really like a pink, sound right? It just feels darker and deeper and earthier aren't things like pink sound actually terms of art, like I have a, I have a white noise app on my phone is white noise which I like white means. It's all the frequencies equally. Or a certain range of frequency, but all at the same volume. But then the app could also shape that sound into a pinker. Two different would be called ping noise and it would sound a little warmer and there was even brow. Choose Brown noise. I mean, I don't know what bunch of sinister got together and decided the sounds wait pink, man, but it's the way we describe all sound. You say, you know, you want to warm it up and warm, suggests yellows and adding adding qualities. If you if you buy lights at the supermarket or at the drugstore wherever you buy lights, I have no idea where people by lights you really, you really, you're in a real crisis now about not knowing where people feel like George Bush the first who has never been to a grocery store. I'm just like you by lights at the light store. I don't know. I mean, I guess your mom's still change your life them at Costco. I guess I was. I was at Lowe's. I was hesitating to to use a brand name yet to use those press. What of Sam's Club wants the sponsor. The show club to give me my light bulbs, but you buy them on a spectrum of light from cold to warm, right? Those are colors. So color describe light, but I'm okay with that because I actually made of colors. Right. Sound not so much the same. Like higher frequency sound, we think of as bright. Is this a musician thing? I've heard people say they want to brighten the tones. So like symbols are very bright and low drums and low sounds we we call dull, I guess, do people use colors. They do -absolutely you know, they say, well, think about the blues. We talk about color in music a lot, and it's a and it's not just sinister. It's a motion to it is. Absolutely. You can feel blue. You can see red color is one of the number one ways we used to describe things. I don't know. I'm an eerie and I'm Laurin Volvo bomb, and we have some exciting news for you are show food stuff. All about the science history and culture of food and drink is relaunching as saver. We along with super producer, Dylan Fagin are hitting the road to find the stories behind all the things that we like to eat and drink. We'll be talking to the culinary creators eaters of the world to get to the bottom of why we like what we like and how we can get more of those things in her life. On our first trip, we went to Asheville North Carolina, a city that pulled out of a seventy year economic depression with beer and food. We spoke with brewers chefs, distillers farmers, forager's historians and journalists who have been part of this turnaround, and we are going to be talking about all kinds of things like the medieval techniques going into some of the most talked about new beers and how ashville was cemented as tourist town by to Berkeley. And some of the things made possible and delicious by bacteria and east poop. Yup. Like cheese chocolate. And the aforementioned beer, booze new episodes will be coming out as they always have Wednesday and Friday on apple podcasts. When I looked Brown sound because you said you wanted to tell the future about it. The first thing I found was Eddie van Halen using it as a word for guitar tone that he aspired to. That was not harsh. I don't know understand which which amp or which humbug or whatever. But for somehow it gives it a warm tone that to him, felt Brown. When Eddie van Halen, I arrived on the scene in the nineteen seventies and people were curious about his tone because he had a very distinctive distortion. He described it as the Brown sound, which was a combination of Marshall amps and a certain Demarsy, oh pickup. It's not playing technique at all. Well, he says that the Brown. So as time's gone on Eddie van Halen has his sense of what the Brown sound is has evolved. So he recognizes that his playing style contributes to the Brownstone, but it's also become kind of elusive aspiration on his part. It's the, it's funny that it's his Rosebud. He's always searching for the Brown sound Connecticut's. It's like the lost chord. Yeah, you can never quite find it there. It is the perfect Brown sound. He can't quite get it. Dreams of it? Yeah, he likes his Eminem's green and his sound sound Brown. I don't understand why you would choose Brown. Well, a dull, it's a well. It's a kind of color that fades and within rock and roll. There's an interesting effect, which is that sometimes very Tripoli tones end up communicating kind of deep and full sound, and it's partly because in a rock band, you've got bass drum and the bass guitar holding down these low frequencies and really like the best guitar. Tones are often incredibly tribally, Brian May's guitar. Tone famously trebling. But when he hits those big, thick chords, it doesn't feel. It feels very resonant and dark and Qatar, players are often making the mistake of trying to make a dark sound by taking the treble away. When in fact, it's a little bit counterintuitive intuitive that you actually turn the trouble up to accomplish the effect of dark tone. It feels like the problem is that the tar style that they're playing the most masculine phallic instrument at all. You know, they're, they're jutting it out at you and actually Ziglar redo the most masculine of all instruments. Okay. The second masculine rock. Instant. It's not a lot of rock didgeridoo although you do the digital do in your mouth. So it's like it's a different experience of masculinity. Then the tar which is at your waist equally valid. If you know if you went to certain depending on which boardings. Wove, right? But this instrument to them connotes masculine actually. Does this. A high pitched sound that could even be harsher squeaky, right, right. So that what they want is something that conveys the muscular nature of the art to them and the fact that the sound is not the most masculine sound in the band? Well, it depends. If you think of high sounds as being pink and low sounds as being black. Yeah, I guess blow sounds being blue, I guess if you are, it's mostly somebody with a really conventional sense of color associated with gender. I guess it's more like men having lower pitched voices, right? Less less of what they what colored diapers and super-duper death metal or heavy heavy metal. Now they use seven string guitars. They tune their guitars down a full step or more to to actually create much lower sounded because Satan has asked them to. Satan didn't just ask Ken to see commanding doesn't ask he doesn't. He doesn't send a memo phen- just says he didn't snaps his fingers. He doesn't do an on boarding call. No afraid. Not fame just posts his theses on the on the door of the church and everybody gets in line. I am displeased that your harsh high pitched guitar tone. The management. Distract you. This, the Brown sound in your bowels has little to do with what he is trying to accomplish. So I don't think that Eddie when he when he described his tone as Brown sound, doesn't want teenage heroes out there. Defecating at the show know zone think he was. He was maybe not conscious of the Brown know which was something that the that the military actually did. Several experiments are spent quite a bit of time trying to find this note. And I've always said that if I were to be a superhero within the marvel canon that maybe the most effective weapon you could have as a superhero would be the power to make your opponent involuntarily defecate because even fighting superman, someone who has all of the power in the world, if you made him poop his drawers, he's going to stop fighting for a little while and go clean up. But here's what you're saying. You're saying it's a super villains power. Yes, it's totally useless for a superhero. Because if you make well, no, if you made Dr. Ach, if you made doc, ock poop is pants. He's going to stop doing his villainy for he's a sociopath. He doesn't care. He's going to be like, he cares like, I'm going to keep, you know. Rank rending Spiderman. She's not robbing banks, robbing banks. Bent on the destruction of some kind and he's like, I can work on world domination while I smell like poop care. Maybe the joker would keep on keeping on villainy if he'd pooped. But most people even the even the worst deadliest super villains are going to say, I mean, imagine magneto like being forced to poop. He's going to say like hold everything. Let me go like I've gotta go change my tunic. See, this is where you're wrong night need has been in the camps. He's been through. He's seen the worst of what humanity has to offer it in the literal. You're right. And he still has this crystal clear vision that he's gonna -ccomplish at all costs mutant superiority. And it's not at all costs if my tunic has no poop on it, I don't. I don't think that we can really know. But I think that if you think about the, the marvel universe or superheroes in general, you never see them in the potty. It's always it's always assume. But some of these TV show or nobody even has a bathroom. Yeah, some of these, some of these superheroes have incredible powers, but does that extend to their defecation? What do superman hoops look like? I mean, are they little like titanium balls is hard as you want? Because he also has a Colin of steel right to expel it with. So perhaps perhaps his the way he would counteract my my Brown sound powers would be to just make his poops into diamonds. So he's like involuntarily filling his pants with your fist, but never with intern. A lot of the other superheroes are wearing full body tight. That's the thing going to the bathroom is not just. It's going to be very time consuming, right? You don't see a little but flap on those things because how much doc would make fun of imagine how painful it would be to poop diamonds? I guess they would be uncut diamonds, right? So they're rounded, doesn't care. Nobody who can poop. Diamonds has a regular size, get torn up. I wonder if his finger is so strong that it could actually cut diamonds as he's pooping them like cut them like the way jeweler would cut them like jeweler, so he could have a request. You could be like, I want Bevill cutter, I want. I want the crown of India or whatever he takes requests, but in recent years, although the Brown sound spoiler alert is this possible. That's what I wanted to Brown sound through. All the research has never, no one has ever accomplished a Brown note. It is the lost chord. That's right. The television show starring friend Adam, Savage, the Mythbusters TV show actually did an entire episode where they got some of the top off. Audio engineers in the world to build an enclosure that could create create. These sounds down at five hurts and they positioned Adam in the in the middle of a semicircle of these super sub woofers and blasted him with sound. And although it has to be Adam because the other guy would never do know Jamie was guys no fun though. He's not going to be the one that gets blasted Adams against sport. He's the one that blasts, but but Adam reported that he felt incredible discomfort and he felt his lungs vibrating, and he felt his whole body having this experience that I've had it in my bloody Valentine concert, which is just like, I cannot escape the sound. And in fact, there is some suggestion that sonic waves at these frequencies create so much disorientation that you can no longer move to get out of the way of them. But at Adam reported that despite all of this, he did not feel either the need to defecate nor did it happen in voluntarily. And so they, they decided that the Brown note was a busted myth. It's funny to me that this is a failure. Sounds like what you're saying is effectively invented a paralysis Ray if it's that people can't move. But so they've made something really a terrible twisted sick weapon a paralysis, and they're just bummed that you don't also poop. Well, what what we really wanted was for them to poop. What happened in all these experiments is that they did create sonic weapons. They're not at low frequencies, they're at high frequencies. A company called Elrod has built a sound cannon, which was actually used during the Ferguson riots in Missouri are easing the new stuff domestically, I, yeah. Well, it's always good. So no, they've been Elrod cannon. Have been used in Faluji as a beam weapon. Basically, you can target the beam of sound. There were there was a lot of different sonic warfare used in Iraq. Some of it was just really high high volume insults the l. red cannon can be used to communicate. Actually, audible sound at great distances, high volume insults, like they would actually be like it'd be insulting their family, no insults like your mother is a dog, but blasted at great volume. Remember when they had Noriega in the in the embassy and eighty nine or whatever. And they were playing like heavy metal. They're playing, they actually played the doors at Noriega. I think that might have been what caused him to surrender. Eventually, it looks like this is they were choosing playlists that had puns like I fought the law by clash. The lyrical content is supposed to make Noriega give up like, oh, what a sick burn? Well, this is. How fun the US army was in nineteen eighty nine. By the time of the the Iraq war they lost all that sense of humor and they were just like your mother is a kennel. Yeah. Your mother is a camel. It's not fun anymore. During Vietnam, they used loudspeakers to broadcast both insults and also kind of like give up. There's no chance you can win famously in pockets. Now they played ride of the Valkyries as they were storming in, they would've played the doors, but people really just been grooving on too much would have been just like, oh, the doors or in every Vietnam movie. But now the Elrod company or corporation has we have now the power to generate tremendously loud noises so loud that they caused this paralysis. They cause ear damage. They cause and is supposed to be a certain kind of the idea that this is like non, whatever you call it on lethal that it's like it's like spring protesters hoses. You get people to stand down without actually do anything or these now awful. The affectively we are super villains. Well, it's like tasers or or beanbag shot that the the police are claiming that they're nonlethal and that it's just it's just crowd control, but they are in fact very damaging burst people's eardrums. You can in some cases caused brain damage. The brain is so affected by this beam. It vibrate so much that it creates a kind of like. Frontal lobe. Damage could be worse in way than lots of conventional warfare. It can. There's there's a famous incident in two thousand five. There was a cruise ship called the seaborne spirit, which was sailing off the coast of Somalia during the heyday of the Somalian pirate and the pirates were attacking the seaborne spirit and firing actual like shoulder, fired rockets at it. A cruise ship a cruise ship. Why? Why are they cruise? Well, they were. They were headed to the Seychelles Madagascar. It was an exotic crews, not one of these ones that just goes around Jamaica and they had an Elrod sound cannon on board. These cannons can fire up to one hundred sixty two decibels, which is audible over over miles open ocean. Is there any way you can help me? So one hundred one t. decibels Jenner one hundred twenty decibels is the most or rather it's the level at human. Hearing where you start to sustain damage. Most rock shows try to keep it at about ninety decibels. But decibels, they damage your ear more. The longer you hear them at a constant state like you can hear peaks a balloon popping is louder than an airplane taking off. It's just that it's only for a second. It's only for a second. And so those peaks don't do the sustained damage that that notes at high decibels for long periods of time. One hundred sixty. Is like fireworks at three feet fireworks at three, which is not where you want to be at us at like bar, just a constant sound, and actually the seaborne spirit was able to repel the pirates by focusing this sonic beam on them. And more more recently than that, there was kind of famous incident in Cuba where the staff of the US embassy there reported feeling great discomfort, the they had headaches. They were feeling disoriented. Some of them actually measurably sustained brain damage, and there were a lot of accusations that it was the Cuban government using sonic weapons against the staff of the US embassy. This proved happened in China to well, just recently studies have shown or studies have speculated that what was happening. The US embassy was actually kind of like Vic Tandy discovered. There were instruments making subsonic vibrations, but in different places within within the region, right. You could have a, you could have an off leading fan or you could have a piece of electronic communication equipment that we're making sounds. But the sounds combined with one another would create a sympathetic resonance or a standing sound wave where you can. This is how noise cancelling headphones or noise cancelling technology works. The noise cancelling headphones will have a microphone. That detects the noise that is bothersome, and then it will create the opposite way. Opposite wave that will cancel out the other wave and create. Silence. But if waves are not directly opposite like that are are clashing waves, they can combine to form a third sound or or or resonances across a whole court, a whole spectrum of sounds. And so sound unnatural. Sounds potentially were being made in the US embassy by a broken fan over here, and maybe somebody was using subsonic communication over here. One of those floor polishing things. That's right. Some some whale was farting. There were some some midshipmen's midshipman fish. The the big ones were resonating in this mall, commie scheme. They were vibrating their genitalia. So and this has happened in China to the government of Cuba and China, both the vociferiously denied that they were engaged in this sonic were way to denies. That's how you would do it. If I were going to do, you'd be frus her well in that vociferating would. Actually potentially contribute to the sine wave that was causing the discomfort in the first place. And that concludes, but around sound entry one, five, eight dot Mt. One, five one, seven certificate number four, two, nine, six, four. In the omnibus you can chew try to choose to contact us through various kinds of standing wave. Kind of seismic activity. We're not teens, so we can't hear the little the little buzzing vibrations in the muddy hall and send us some. It's gotta come through the ground. Oh yeah. It's like the things that are talking to the whales and Star Trek. That's right. If you can manage that, you could communicate with us possibly across time. You could send us Email, for example, Optimus project at how stuff works dot com. Dare you. You can send us physical mail. I'm doing this another order. We could send us physical mail at omninous project PO box, five, seven, four, four shoreline, Washington night. One five. We in turn communicate with others. We like to give people a sense of unease with our social media presence. We liked the cars, the cars that go boom. Tigrayan bunny and we like the boom. We are at newest project. On almost every social media platform go Ford on steam. Dare you to find a social platform on kick. We're on Google. What was the one? Google. Google life. Google people treatise. She peeps Google Google. We were on Google peeps. You can find us individually on Twitter as at bunny at Ken Jennings John Roderick. John's also Instagram under the same. Also go to the Facebook. Omnibus future links, forgot about the future lynx, don't forget about the future Ling's. That's where I forget about Dray and don't forget about the future. That's for all three genders of future legs are broadcasting infra sound at each other, but not for reproductive? No, absolutely. Not just to just for entertainment. Good. Clean, fun in the mud from our vantage point future links in your distant past, we have no idea whether the sonic standing wave that we're creating this show is causing you brain damage or not, but we open pray that catastrophe on others may never. But if the worst comes soon this recording, like all our recruiting maybe are finally. Providence allows we hope to be back with you soon for another entry. Thousand four in a tiny town. A young woman named Rebecca Gould was brutally murdered. Nearly fifteen years later. Her killer is still on the loose. It's just really surreal. Around. Two guys out there. I'm Katherine towns. This is Helen gone now available on apple podcasts.

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The Mueller Report: What We Know So Far

The Takeaway

46:27 min | 1 year ago

The Mueller Report: What We Know So Far

"Okay. Everyone big day today on the takeaway. Yup. It's the release of the Muller. Wait what what's the matter? I can't say what what do you mean? It's redacted. All right. How about this? All right, folks, huge day, we're talking about the Muller investigation. And what we know is. Okay. Come on. I can't say that either. Well, how much of it is redacted? Well, there you go, folks. We'll get you whatever information on the report. We can I'm Gina Vega. Let's get started. The special counsel found no evidence that any American including anyone associated with the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government or the IRA in this illegal skiing special counsel's report did not find any evidence that members of the Trump campaign or anyone associated with the campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these hacking operations especial council found no collusion. And they're having a good day. I'm having a good day Q. It was called no collusion. No obstruction. The attorney general appears to be waging a media campaign on behalf of President Trump. The very subject of the investigation at the heart of the mullahs report blow see and Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer issued a joint statement is indefensible plan to spin the report have resulted in a crisis of confidence. The attorney general is taking unprecedented steps to spin mullah's nearly two year investigation. We don't go through this process. Just to collect information and throw it out the public. We collect this information we use that compulsory process for the purpose of making that decision. And because of the special counsel did not make that decision. We felt the department had to and that was a decision by me and the deputy attorney. More than four hundred pages of special counsel. Robert Muller's report are now public on the Justice Department's website, while portions of the report are redacted certain members of congress are expected to see a version of the report with fewer reductions one key point emerging from the report so far is in the second paragraph in the introduction to volume one in it Muller's team writes, quote, the Russian government interfered in the twenty sixteen presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion it explores coordination interference and evidence of contact between the Trump campaign and Russian actors max Kutner is a journalist covering the FBI the Justice department and the Russia investigation, and he's been reading the report, thanks for being with us max for me. So you've been following this for months, your initial reaction to what's in the report. What are your biggest takeaway so far tunes you I'm surprised that so much detail is in the? This report. I'm surprised how much color is. In these details, we've seen of President Trump raging at Jeff Sessions when he finds out that the special counsel was appointed we have names, you know, I thought the Justice department standard is that uncharged individuals are not named and so to have the names of people and alleged wrongdoing. And even have the names of witnesses is very surprising to me if you turn to page four hundred and one of the report, there's this extensive glossary right of every individual reference by name followed by every organization and entity they're affiliated with and their dozens and dozens of them were there any surprises for you. In terms of who this investigation touched a lot of these names. We knew of all ready, not only did we know that they were witnesses in the Muller investigation. But we've also seen their names come up in the congressional investigations. We've seen them photographed walking down the halls of the Senate. Building for instance, on their way to meet with investigators. I really thought the Justice department guideline was you don't name uncharged individuals. And I thought given how closely the attorney general sticks to other Justice department guidelines such as not prosecuting a sitting president he would stick to this one. And so to see that glossary was surprising. And it also reminded me and looked very similar to the glossary of names. We saw in the house intelligence committees Russia report, which it released about a year ago to have all these names. So we know who was providing information, and we know who Muller was looking into I interested. I mean, there's obviously a headline that's been already sort of taken stage here where the president says, oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency, and then uses the next to describe how he feels there can you tell us a little bit about that moment. And maybe some of the other colorful details that emerged already felt that moment, really. Was a pivotal moment in the Trump presidency that it was the moment when Trump really broke up with the Justice department and realize that even though it's under the executive branch. This is not going to be his own law firm, and that was a pivotal moment between Trump and the law enforcement community, which remember he had campaigned as a law law and order candidate. It was also a pivotal moment between him and Jeff Sessions. And so to get that kind of color today. Only added to that idea. I thought that really although his surrogates have told us, you know, not to pay attention to those embarrassing details just pay attention to the bigger themes. The fact there was no obstruction. No coordination. You can't help it. See these details and really zero in on them. These are fascinating. We learned that investigators looked into ten different episodes in which the president may have obstructed Justice. Some of these we have been reporting on for a long time like the firing of former FBI had James Komi. What else did the report? Say about those instances. So we find out a lot of detail. Some of things have as you said of been previously reported some have not we find out more details about Trump's June twenty seventeen effort to have Don Mcgann, the White House counsel, fire mower. We find out that President Trump wanted Jeff Sessions to unrequir- himself and even call Jeff Sessions at his home trying to get that unrecoverable. He went through aides and former aides like Corey Lewandowski surrogates Lindau sqi to try and make all these things happen. So really the report goes through all these instances in a lot of detail talks them out analyzes them and explains why they could not come to a conclusion on obstruction of Justice. I was just going to say did we get any more clarity on attorney general bars decision to clear the president of obstruction of Justice? There is a little more clarity on that. But we're the clarity really comes is in saying why Muller decided not to do it and saying. That he discussed this with the Justice department, the Justice department guidelines, you know, we knew that Muller believed that a sitting president could not be prosecuted that had been reported and that is confirmed in this report. But I think that the Democrats especially in congress still have a lot more questions. We already have a response from Jerry Nadler, head of the House Judiciary committee saying this is why we need to hear directly from special counsel Muller. This is why we need to receive the full unredacted report with underlying evidence. That's what the chairman Nadler tweeted earlier today, chairman Nadler, set, a formal request to Muller calling for him to testify by late may. So they have a lot of questions that said, I happen to think the report answers a lot of questions. Let's let's I want to just go back. A second to Nadler who also called this media campaign, at least attorney general bars brief conference this morning before the report was released. What are your thoughts on that? Well, you know. Bars. An interesting person I've spoken with family. Members of his I've spoken with his former deputies at the Justice department when he was previously attorney general everyone tells me the same thing that they say about people like Muller, rod Rosenstein, even James Komi. They say this is a straight shooter. This is, you know, a lifetime prosecutor whether it was federal or or not even though bars a political appointee that shouldn't make concern about where his loyalties lie that said this press conference this morning was surprising. The Democrats last night really rushed to condemn it. Nadler put together a press conference calling for bar to cancel it. Clearly that didn't happen a price conference to cancel the press conference. Yes, exactly. That's trying to keep track. Here. It's hard to keep track late last night. That's what happened and bar. Obviously went ahead with it. And we learned more about his decisions during that press conference. But as everyone said the report really needs to speak for it self, and that's what this. You know, the documents going to do now. So we're going to read a section from the report, which is as we mentioned at the top almost five hundred pages, and I'm quoting here. Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts. The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities, you said max that the the report as is answers a lot of questions more than we were probably end tipping. What does this tell us? This is a really key line. Because it kind of recognizes look the public might of thought one thing we've heard this term collusion, but this is the law, and this is what the evidence is showing. And we're looking into conspiracy. We're looking into coordination coordination is the. Word that was used in the Muller appointment, and that's what the even the congressional committees who are having similar investigations us to it's not collusion. But that's the word that's really entered the lexicon. Now, I happen to think Trump knew this. And that's why President Trump really pushed that no collusion language because he knew that collusion really wasn't going to be proved here one way or another. And of course, he repeated it again today that he's essentially been vindicated. There was no collusion. Max. I really wanted. Sierra went on this. What's the difference between collusion and coordination? And how does that difference impact? What came out in this report? Yes coordination really is the term to use here. Again. That's what rod Rosenstein us when he laid out the Muller mandate in may of twenty seventeen. That's the word the congressional committees have used so that is more broad. That's looking at did the Trump campaign work with. The Russians in any way. And the report is really saying there's no evidence of that little bit about the investigation itself. The report talked about the president's written testimony to the special counsel. And there was a theme that emerged in a lot of his answers. What was that? Sure. So we learned in the report that in November twenty eight teen special counsel's office received written responses from Trump we learned that then the the following month, which was December the special counsel responded said these are inefficient they pointed out that Trump more than thirty times had said he didn't recall or couldn't remember or a phrase of that sort and they even considered a subpoena. However, this is the really fascinating moment, they say that they weighed the costs of going after Trump getting him to give an interview, and they figured that would delay. The response of the report they figured that all of the other information that they got from other sources was sufficient, and so they just kind of moved on. That I think that is really fascinating. Because it kind of goes against what we thought the special counsels team was doing we thought they really were leaving no stone unturned. This was going to be the definitive document. We've also seen so many reports about Trump's legal team and in-fighting and sort of Giuliani putting his foot in his mouth there. I'm not the first to say many reports about this. But it kind of shows that whatever they were doing seemed to have worked. They did not want Trump to give an interview I believe that's in Bob Woodward's, book fear talks all about about John Dowd. And how they didn't how did a trial interview. And then they did not want to send Trump to give this interview part of the reason why they didn't want him to do the interview max is also because of the fact that the president often speaks his mind, right? And he sort of speaks out of turn is that is that part of the concern. Absolutely. According to Bob Woodward's reporting in fear of I'm remembering the passage correctly. He was doing the Trump was doing the. Interview prep with John Dowd, and and John Dowd stopped. Immediately said there's no way you can answer like this. And there's no way we can do this all that said I did speak with Thai Cobb former member of the legal team. And he said this shows what cooperation does this shows, we cooperated, and now we can trust the findings so in his mind, and probably in the legal teams mind and the mind of Trump's supporters and probably Trump himself. They did cooperate report also outlined some of the limitations that the special counsel faced over the course of the investigation. For example, there were people who deleted relevant communications or false testimony. Is it important to know about pieces that the Muller investigation team was not able to cooperate. Well, I think so and I think the Democrats in congress are really going to zero in on that they're going to ask Barra about that. When he testifies they're going to ask Muller. They're going to look for that in the underlying evidence. We already know that congressional investigator. Are going after this sort of this general thing this idea of Email use personal Email us on non-government accounts, which Jared Kushner and Avante Trump have been accused of doing the same way Hillary Clinton did that. So this sort of missing information is really a target of Democrats, the reductions, of course, we were we've all been talking about how much the report would be redacted you're saying that there was a lot less that was redacted than you expected. There would be. But there are reductions there and some of them are labeled grand jury some are labeled harm to ongoing matter. Remind us what these mean? So there were four types of reductions that we knew the attorney general was going to make anything material revealing sources and methods which is kind of the investigative techniques that the FBI uses every day there was material related to the grand jury work. There was material related to uncharged individuals. And as you said, the ongoing matters now, I think ongoing. Matters is really interesting because you'll really get to a point in the text. It'll suddenly be totally blacked out say ongoing matter and that gives you an idea of what is still being investigated. We know the Muller team is disbanding their their investigation is finished. But matters are still being handed off. We know the southern district of New York has investigations going on. There was an indictment unveiled just days ago that it said this was came out of the mullahs report. So we know excuse me, the Miller investigation. So we know that there are these ongoing matters. Can you give us a sense of what some of the other investigations are that are still ongoing, right? We know that there's this case of Gregory Craig who was a former Obama White House counsel that came out last week the indictment. He's charged with false giving a false statement to Farah that's registering as a foreign agent. We know that awhile back lobbyist. Sam Patten was charge. Again, under Farah for failing to register as a foreign agent on behalf of the Ukrainian party. So we know that these were inspired not only inspired by but really came out of the molar investigation. The prosecutors will say as much in their filings. The report also detailed something that we've covered here on the show the internet research agency and their social media campaign to influence the two thousand sixteen election for those who may not remember they were screen shots. And the report of different adds that the internet internet research agency, put out there, remind us who these folks are and the influence that they had the IRA Tenzing. This was the Russian troll farm that popped up around twenty fourteen twenty fifteen they had been written about there was a big New Yorker feature on them. And then suddenly they turn to promoting Trump at least, according to US intelligence, promoting Trump denigrating Hillary Clinton, and we found out some numbers today. Day in the report, the special counsel team saying that the IRA's social media posts reached tens of millions of people that really shows that these are not, you know, just some trolls sitting in a room in Moscow. These are reaching millions and millions of Americans multiple Facebook groups each with hundreds of thousands of followers, plus a whole Twitter campaign. Now, this is something that congressional Russia. Investigators have gone after the social media aspect the social media companies have had to reckon with this. And this is something that people have forgotten that this was a major part of the Muller mandate. It wasn't just obstruction of Justice. It wasn't just coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign. It really was just the Russian meddling that was a major part of the mandate. And it says again quoting from the report here, the Russian government interfered in the twenty sixteen presidential election and sweeping and systemic fashion. So they have confirmed that there. Was Russian meddling. The question now remains what max will the question remains first of all people care anymore? We've been hearing about this since at least, well, I think Octo twenty sixteen so right before the election is when the federal government under Obama, I announced that there was this Russia issue. They first disclosed it, then we learned more on January seven twenty seventeen when the intelligence community released a report saying that the Russians had meddled against Clinton and in favor of Trump. And now we found out more of it through the congressional investigations. Now, again, we're finding out more about it through this report. And the president is not exonerated in. This report essentially, I mean, despite what he says this this report does not exonerate him. Does it? Well, that's what no the report specifically says it does not exonerate Trump. That's the language Muller used. However, we know from attorney general bars letter that then he and. Deputy attorney general Rosenstein decided that they were going to figure that out and they decided to in fact, exonerate Trump, and we heard during the press conference from Bill bar a little bit about that. He was asked about this. And he said he decided to make that judgment because that's what the department of Justice. Does it doesn't just throw information out into the public used words along those lines instead comes up with judgments and decides on this information? So if quoting again from the report, the Russian government interfered in the twenty sixteen presidential election quote, sweeping and systemic fashion who on our end worked with them. Well, that is the question that Muller was set out to answer. And as well he answered it in that as far as he saw. There was no evidence that a US person was involved in that. Now that said it could be that there is evidence that. He didn't come across. I happen to have faith in the Justice department, and the FBI that and molar that they got the work done. But I think Democrats are gonna be raising this question they're going to say, well you perceived that there was no coordination. You didn't find evidence of such? But does that definitively answered this question max Kutner is journalists covering the FBI the Justice department and the Russia investigation max, thank you so much. Congressman Jamie Raskin is with us. Now, he's a democrat from Maryland and senior member of the House Judiciary committee and since the release of bar summary Raskin has been one of the many lawmakers calling for the release of the full report as House Democrats have continued to flex their investigative muscle. Looking into Trump's finances authorizing subpoenas and promising to keep pushing for transparency into molars findings congressman Raskin joined us earlier today, just a few hours after attorney general bar held his press conference to give his immediate reaction to the report will read only volume one which deals with the massive Russian effort to destabilize in alter the course of events in the two thousand sixteen presidential campaign, and it documents hundreds of contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russian intelligence agents military intelligence that were involved in this effort. But it says there's not sufficient evidence to to charge a criminal conspiracy. But certainly far more replete and massive contacts than attorney general bar ever lead on in any of his public comments about this. So far, I've not gotten to read volume to I've just started to revolve to about obstruction of Justice might curiosity. Of course, was piqued by attorney general bars attempts to refute in advance, the ten episodes of obstruction, which apparently are detailed and here by the special counsel, Muller and attorney general bars point seemed to be that because the president was frustrated and angry when he attempted to interfere in the investigation. He somehow lacked the requisite motive to be guilty of a crime. And there's several things we have to serve about that one is that there's a difference between legal Intel. Sent in motive if somebody goes to rob a Bank and robbed the Bank because they want to go on vacation and another person robs a Bank across the street because they wanna give the money to their mother who they think has never had sufficient amount of money. Both of them are guilty of robbing a Bank their motive is it relevant. And so the fact that attorney general bars so focused on what the president's motives were is just an irrelevant distraction from what his actions and his conduct were now as reading the introduction to volume to here. It says that special counsel mother says that he's not forming a judgment on the ultimate legal question of obstruction of Justice. And then immediately says he follows that sends by saying well, see the office of legal counsel has issued an opinion finding that the indictment or prosecution of a sitting president would impermissible undermined the tha passively of executive branch to performance functions. In other words, the reason why he's not. Charging obstruction here at least as a matter of law framing his analysis is that the DOJ takes the position that the president cannot be prosecuted. That's again, something that attorney general bar never told us, and everybody's been asking why did mother not make his decision after two years of work. And he's obviously deferring to this DOJ position, which is being advanced by the attorney general that won the president won't be prosecuted constitutionally because of the separation of powers into the the more controversial position that the Torney general advances, which is that the president of the United States can never be guilty of obstructing Justice because he sits atop the law enforcement function so eager to get into the details of all of this all of it. Immediately casts, a severe shadow over everything that attorney general bars been telling us congressman in the hours before the release. The report speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer. Said AG attorney general bars handling of the report amounted to a quote crisis of confidence your democratic colleague on the House Judiciary, Eric swale. Well, just took to Twitter to call for the resignation of attorney general bar your reaction to that. Well, I think that attorney general bar has already resigned effectively as the chief law enforcement officer of the country and the person most interested in vindicating Justice, the constitution and the rule of law. He's basically acting as criminal defense lawyer and a propagandist for the president of the United States and all of his actions ever since he got the report have been an attempt to minimize diminish dismissed everything in here that implicates the president in obstructive activity. And apparently again, there's lots of it. You know, there's an attempt I think here to pre-empt Congress's role. We are the lawmaking branch of government. We are the primary dominant branch of government. And we are the ones who will decide. I'd whether there were high crimes and misdemeanors committed by this president. I'm curious. How has the report released changed the Democrats plans to investigate the president moving forward? Well, we haven't we haven't fully assimilated what all of this means. And I think people will be very focused on constitutional obstruction of Justice. Of course, criminal obstruction of Justice is different thing. And nobody who worked on this seriously, meaning special counsel Muller has pined on the legal conclusion of whether or not there was obstruction even the statutory sense. But in the constitutional sense, that's something that resides was congress, and the judiciary committee in the house in the first instance, we're gonna have to look very seriously about this. And this is what prior presidents have been impeached over for example, the Republicans in the house impeach Bill Clinton for telling one lie about a private act of sex. And obviously, we're dealing with conduct far more sweeping and serious than that. Congressman you mentioned the Republicans effort to impeach president. Bill Clinton, and I'm curious whether the release of this report gives more fuel to the Democrats for a possible impeachment push today. Well, we have no idea at this point. I'm still in the middle of reading the report, I think everybody needs to digest it and process it in order to figure out what it means. But remember the Republicans refused to do any investigation into all of these fares over the last two years before the Democrats took control of congress. So there was no investigation. They said we want to delegate this to a special counsel. Let's believe in the special counsel report. So I don't think it's a legitimate position. To say we accept the special counsel's report when he finds there was no criminal conspiracy between the Trump campaign agents of the Russian government because they were basically just used by them. They were not participating in a conspiracy. But then to reject everything else that is found here, including all of the evidence of obstruction of Justice and all of that by the president. To interfere with the special counsel's investigation. So these are all things that we have to look at and analyse in. Due course, -able, you know, have the chance to answer your question. And I know you're still reading through the report, let congressman you said that you were concerned that attorney general bar would make reductions for political versus legal reasons from what you've been able to read so far have your fears been realized, you know, I think that's going to become the most the most seriously implicated when we get into the obstruction of Justice question. And so I'm going to reserve judgment on that Representative Jamie Raskin, democrat from Maryland and senior member of the House Judiciary committee, congressman, thank you. Thank you. We turn now to a legal expert, and what we've learned in the report and how it became public. Caroline Frederickson is the president of the American constitution society progressive legal organization. Thanks for being with us Carolyn. It's a real pleasure. So I'd love to get your top takeaways. I from a legal perspective in particular. What was it in the content of the report itself that stood out to you? Well, for one thing the the attorney general said in his four-page letter that the decision not to pursue an obstruction charge. The fact that that Mr. Muller left, it open was not based on the department of Justice's policy that the president can't be indicted. Well in office that's clearly false that was a false statement. If you read the report, you can see that Bob Muller was fully conscious of and made his decisions based on the fact that they couldn't they couldn't indict the president and therefore. Very much indicated that it was Congress's job to examine the evidence and make the ultimate determination if the president had done something that was an abuse of his authority. Can you walk us through the legalities of Muller's investigation into the charge of obstruction in particular with everything we know now. Absolutely. Well, I mean, one of the major issues is the question of intent. And Mr. Muller was not allowed to interview the president in there for the issue of intent was unresolvable, and that's really unfortunate because it seems it sort of, but for element to what happened here part, of course, from the department of Justice policy that Muller could not actually get the president on the record to talk about what his intent was. And then, you know, we saw the attorney general spin that saying well, the president, of course, was upset about this investigation going on he'd just become president and in. He thought it was interfering with his presidency and use that as justification for. For the for the obstruction. You know? It's just it was a you know, sort of artful. I guess spin doctoring Robert Muller was not present at the press conference. Was there an expectation that he would be certainly observers of the Justice department have noted that typically when there is announcement of a report that comes out after a major investigation the lead investigator is present it's a little bizarre that he was nowhere near near the room in the Justice department where bar gave his press conference. It was a notable absence. Now attorney general bar during that press conference did say that he didn't have a problem with Robert Muller testifying before congress. I guess two questions there, how likely is it that Muller could or would testify, and then what could we expect from his testimony? Well, you know, I know that the two democratic leaders have had said that they really fully expect him to testify that until he's on the record. All we have. Apart from the report is as bars spin on on whether he was consulted and in what his views were. So I think that's a really important part of the record in. There's no reason that he should you know in lesson until the president tries to exert some kind of thorny. But I don't see I don't see what his power would be. This is Congress's job. This is what article one is all about. It's, you know, the the Congress's important in our checks and balances systems, it's vital minutes their job to review, whether the executive branch has committed malfeasance, and to that point the House Judiciary chairman Jerry Nadler has announced a subpoena for the full Mullah report and underlying evidence is that political or is that actually a possibility. Oh, it's absolutely a possibility. It shouldn't be political. Congress has the right to the entire record. You know, we'll have to look back at every other special counsel investigation and see that. That's exactly what happened in Watergate in. The variety of other investigations, including the Starr investigation into President Clinton star produced reams of data evidence for congress to review and the same should be true. Here. We also know that during Nadler and house speaker Nancy Pelosi have said the following in a statement that they released this afternoon, and we're quoting here as we continue to review the report one thing clear attorney general bar, presented a conclusion that the president did not obstruct Justice while Muller's report appears to undercut that finding this seems to be at the heart. Carolina of a lot of what we're the confusion. I think about the report in what's happening today. How do you respond to to that? Well, I mean, I think they're exactly right. It really goes to this issue about whether or not Muller was influenced by the department of Justice policy and not indicting president. And the attorney general said Muller wasn't affected by that that he he couldn't make conclusion independently. And they and they made a conclusion for him. The report says, otherwise what's your analysis of how the White House ended department of Justice sort of interacted in the lead up to the report from what we understood. Well. I mean, where do even begin it's sort of additional an additional element of the obstruction charge of the idea that the president's not only the White House, lawyers, but also his private lawyer parents Jay Sekula would have had advanced copies of the report that they would have been able to prepare their stories in advance. And all I can think of as Felicity Huffman. And you know, the other parents making sure that their kids had the SAT's results, you know, the test answers before they took the test. I mean, that's this. This is just out corruption. You mentioned the Ken Starr investigation a little while ago, and you actually worked under the Clinton administration for a time. How would you compare what's happening today to what happened during that moment during Ken Starr's, independent? Investigation into then President Clinton. Well, what can I say the issue of scale of damage that either president committed is is or that was that was the pocus of the the investigation is so different. I mean, the one hand, you know, President Clinton did, you know, engage in activities that nobody would approve of. But but on the other hand, we have the Russian Russian government trying to interfere and successfully doing so in our election, and helping our president get elected a complete violation of our sovereignty of violation of of the the right of American people to choose their present compared to that. And when you see how much Ken Starr, put out in the public record. I mean, I remember the day that, you know, the Washington Post published the entire star report with all of its salacious details and everybody in Washington went out and grabbed a copy, you know, this is not what we're seeing with the mullahs report. It's been held close. It's highly redacted even though clearly inside people in the in the Trump camp leaked to. Washington Post yesterday that that it was going to be lightly. Redacted in the Washington Post that headline this morning, which was somewhat unfortunate. Because if you read the report, it goes on for pages that are just black ink a very different scenario. I have to say in very unfortunate. Because what we're looking at here is just a challenge to our sovereignty and a threat to our democracy. Caroline, Frederickson president of the American constitution society. Thanks for joining us. Caroline. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me. Book with home, Florida. I think it's this point the Democrats need to concentrate on some of the femmes that are feasting United States instead of endlessly pursuing cat like investigation, and they need to move on problems. And democrat treats a calling from Wilmington, Delaware. I think Muller has done a great job, especially under pressure from all sides. And I don't think the should have made any assertions regarding report before it was really felt that was inappropriate Rutland theorist against a criminal conspiritors. I say release everything about everything Alice I live in Bothell Washington and about the report, honestly, I suspected for a long time that the Russian interference was not Trump's idea. I think Russia took advantage of what they saw as an opportunity because who knows how many contracts secret say hold on Monday was Adrian's calling out of Fort Worth six. Same. Same. I guess President Trump dodge the bullet this Mason from Chicago. My -pinion of the special counsel hasn't changed. But I'm not sure what attributes this report to them. Just yet. To me. This is the by report. I'm still waiting for the deeper truths to be revealed. And I believe they will in time. Somerset, New Jersey as far as the report goes I plan on reading the fort myself now that it's been released. I am deeply disappointed in AG bar the Hager and look forward to Congress's response and actions moving forward. Attorney general William bars the man at the center of today's release, but he was also at the center of very similar situation decades ago caught between government's desire to withhold documents. And brought her demands for transparency. Let's go back for a moment to nineteen eighty nine. In one thousand nine hundred nine this song was why and the sentiment might have been what bar was thinking. He was head of the DOJ's office of legal counsel under the George H W Bush administration and congress wanted to get its hands on one of bars legal opinions that had to do with regime change in Panama in nineteen eighty nine President Bush had made it pretty clear that he wanted general Manuel Noriega out of power. My argument is with the argument that when I say, you know, I'd like to see Noriega out that that means carte blanche. Commitment of on my part of American force. I'm not going to do that. And congress wanted to see bars legal opinion because it was part of bushes justification for taking out Noriega and bringing him to the US. But the opinion itself was secret congress and the press only had the title to work with a thority of the FBI to override customary or other international law in the course of extra territorial law enforcement. Activities, but the government continued to protect the secrecy of the bar opinion. Here's President Bush being asked about this at a press conference in October nineteen eighty nine I'm this ad on what it is. You're have to get back to you with the answer to your question. Marlin I don't know what it I'm not seeing the LA times reports on just have to not comment until I do but a little over two months later. Bush addressed the nation from the Oval Office with this update I directed. Our armed forces to protect the lives of American citizens in Panama and to bring general Noriega Justice in the United States, the US invasion of Panama left, an estimated one thousand people dead, including twenty three US soldiers. General Noriega was in fact, brought to the US where he spent the rest of his life in prison. So here to tell us what we can learn from thirty years ago about Bill bars handling of the special counsel's report today is Ryan Goodman, Ryan's the editor and chief of just security and former special counsel to the department of defense, and he's been writing about the lessons. We can take. From nineteen Eighty-nine. There was every indication that George H W Bush was going to try to duct the leader of Panama and the news leaked to the LA times on the same morning as black Friday, which it even penetrated the news on that day. And the president was asked about the memo at a press conference that day in the secretary of state also had to say some words about the memo that day, it was also remarkable because it was issued in such unusual secrecy, and that's actually the terms that were used by the LA times, partly because lo and behold, the oil c- opinion overturned, a prior opinion, and the Justice department had made that prior opinion public and what we're bars reasons at the time for the way, he acted on this bar started with a line. That's in some ways familiar to what some government officials might do. But it's a similar line that he's adopted now, which is all of this is confidential can't even discuss the content of. This opinion. It must remain within the executive branch. But that line very quickly broke apart because congress decided to hold a hearing brought in Barda testify very quickly in the congressional hearing. It was made apparent that? That was not the case that the Justice department had shared several legal opinions with congress over the nineteen eighties under the Reagan Republican administration. So that was his first attempt at trying to fend off transparency and even before George H W Bush gave the okayed for the invasion of Panama congress called bar to testify before the House Judiciary committee. They asked to see the full text. What was bars response? So bars response was I will summarize the principal conclusions. I'm not gonna give you the full opinion. I'm going to summarize the principal conclusions the exact same language that he used in his letter when he received the Muller report. And then he did proceed. To provide a written testimony. I would even call it a written report, which was his version of the full underlying oilseed opinion. And that's where the problem really enters because he had guaranteed that he would provide congress a summary of the principal conclusions. He writes thirteen pages of written testimony. A now we know because the full report was revealed to the public over three years later and by no stretch to actually include the principal conclusions. When we look at the actual legal opinion that bar road compared to the summary. He provided outside of the fact that he did not summarize the principal conclusions of that report. What are the key differences? What other omissions were there? So the major of mission was that he first of all told congress that the underlying opinion didn't say anything about international law that it was a pure analysis of US domestic law. That's not true. The actual underlying opinion specifically said that the. In charter may not prohibit. It does not necessarily apply to the abduction of suspects in foreign countries without the state's consent, and it did he also told congress some matters. But he left out something that's gigantic for national security law and practice, which is this idea that the president of the United States, according to the bar opinion could violate the charter in that congress couldn't essentially control that. So that proposition was controversial from the very moment that the actual opinion was released to the public. We should acknowledge here that these are two very different moments in history, but how is bars role different today than it was in nineteen eighty nine. So one difference is that Boers under intense scrutiny, and therefore he might behave more properly this time the second difference is that Muller is in the background. So if bar does grossly misrepresent their work Muller's now being called to testify as of this morning by house speaker Pelosi. And Senator Schumer, and they're using the fact that they don't trust his impartiality in order to call him to testify. That's right. They're invoking crisis of confidence in the attorney general, and you know, have to say based on the attorney journals actions in office, I understand that. So that's why Muller's kind of the potential check on the attorney general and also Muller's team so already we know from billboards initial letter, quote, unquote, summarizing the principal conclusions that the Muller team was highly dissatisfied with his representation of their work. And then it leaked that they were speaking with people at the Justice department about that to the New York Times and the Washington Post, and that's the first week of its kind of the entire history of the Muller team. They have been incredibly, quiet. So I think that's another maybe even a shot across the bow. Which is to say to our if you misrepresent this if you mishandle this there's another piece of this, which is whistle blowers. Essentially, and I do. That might end up. Meaning that he does practice more good faith attempt in this moment. And then the last piece that's very different from the history of nineteen eighty nine is that in nineteen thousand nine the congress was very slow to subpoena, the full underlying opinion, it took them twenty one months before they actually issued a subpoena, and here, we have the House Judiciary committee. Having ready authorized the chair to issue a subpoena. If he so decides to do so, and I think that's a nother important dynamic that hangs over bars. Head and therefore he might make a very different calculations this time around Ryan Goodman is the editor in chief of Justice security and former special counsel to the department of defense. Okay. That's our show for today. There's a lot to think about in the coming days. So we really want to hear from you our listeners on this. What are your reactions to the redacted version of the report and attorney general William bars handling of the release? Call us to weigh in at eight seven seven eight my take or reach out on Twitter were at the takeaway. Thanks so much for listening Tanzania Vega. And this is the takeaway talk to you soon.

Robert Muller president special counsel President Trump attorney congress Justice Department Democrats Trump Russian government United States Russia House Judiciary committee FBI Trump President Clinton Jerry Nadler executive Twitter
#49 Burde borgerlnn vrt testet ut i disse dager?

Liberaleren Podcast

17:06 min | 6 months ago

#49 Burde borgerlnn vrt testet ut i disse dager?

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The Top 10 Stories of 1990 | 13

History of the 90s

26:15 min | 9 months ago

The Top 10 Stories of 1990 | 13

"If nineteen ninety was anything it was a year of incredible change sure it was the beginning of a new decade but more than that much more it was the start of a new era in human history the decade that followed ushered in the end of communism and apartheid. It saw the beginning of technological wonders that would both bring the world together and divide it along the way and it changed the way we communicated hated with each other. It was also a time for some of the greatest achievements in music television and sport. I'm Cathy can Zora. In this decade comes to a close history of the nineties looks back and counts down ten of the most memorable stories of the very first year of the decade. That changed the world forever. This is nineteen ninety in the number ten spot. The Milli Vanilli Anneli scandal. which yeah we start with the world of music we'll sort of when milli vanilli released their debut album girl you know it's true crew in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine? The German pop duo were made to rule the charts. Fab Morvan and Rob Pilatus. Were almost too good to be true true. They were good looking and their album with its catchy. Synthesizer songs was a massive hit that topped the charts for weeks then. In February nineteen ninety. They won the grammy for best. New artist Want to say thank you very much. We want to say a lot of artists here in in this room that all artists outside in the world who could achieve the same of what that'd be achieved today and it's what all artists Newark. Thank you very much. Just a few months later in November their German record producer. Frank Ferron held a news. Conference is to tell the world that the guys didn't sing a single note on their album. He said he'd hired the unemployed models to lip sync in videos for songs already already recorded by three studio musicians. The dream for five more van and Rob Pilatus was over because days later later the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences revoked their grammy. It was the first and only time any artist had ever been stripped upped. Grammy the tarnish stars held their own news conference and they didn't blame it on the rain. They blamed it on fairy who they said co the worst them into lip synching and keeping the lie as secret sadly for Rob Pilatus. The lip sync scandal was the beginning of a spiral into substance abuse. He died of a drug and alcohol. Overdose in Nineteen Ninety Eight FAB. Morvan put out his first solo album in two thousand and three and and is still making music in the years since Mel even Eli's fall from grace lip synching has become more advanced and more commonplace in so many anymore artists have suffered through historic performances. That have ethically flopped. Like when Ashley Simpson flubbed her performance of pieces of me on Saturday night live in two thousand and seven and who could forget Mariah Carey's trainwreck New Year's Eve performance 2017. She blamed a faulty not earpiece for not being able to sing along with backing vocals. Carry eventually gave up and paste around the stage for two songs while complaining to the audience. Ladies and Gentlemen Let's get ready to in the number nine spot. The fall of Mike Tyson twenty-three-year-old Mike Tyson was undefeated when he stepped into the ring in Tokyo on February. You're eleventh nine thousand nine hundred ninety two fight buster Douglas. He was the overwhelming favorite to win the title match because he truly had never lost a fight. Eight as a professional boxer Tyson locked fire and intensity right from the start. Douglas on the other hand was quick and explosive. In the ninth round Tyson's left is swelled shut from the number of hits yet taken from Douglas then in the tenth round everyone watched in disbelief. Belief as Douglas landed a right uppercut followed by a left. And then a right to Tyson's head iron. Mike dropped in a heap to the floor landing landing on the ice by tape. The referee stood over Tyson. Who Lay flat on his back encountered him out? It was one of boxing's all time biggest upsets. What's this crushing defeat? Marked the beginning of the end for Tyson's career and his public persona over the course of the ninety s Tyson would fall further from grace with a series of bizarre violent and often criminal acts including when he was sent to jail for sexually assaulting an eighteen year old contestant at the Black Miss America pageant once. He got out after serving just half of a six year sentence. Tyson attempted a comeback that came to a crashing halt. When he bit off the tip of Evanger Holyfield's ear today? He's a podcast host a movie star and a cannabis entrepreneur. You're an Aficionado on his podcast. Hot Box in with Mike Tyson. The former heavyweight champion shared that he spends forty thousand dollars a month on pot and they smoke ten tons of weed at Tyson ranch. The boxers forthcoming forty acre marijuana farm and resort. Show about. It's about nothing scoring gotTa have a story says you gotTa have a storm mm-hmm at the number eight spot is the debut of Seinfeld. No one in nineteen ninety. had a clue that a Sitcom built around around a group of Fussy self absorbed people who obsessed over the minutia daily life would go on to become the most influential show in TV. History in the history of pilots. Seinfeld has got to be one of the worst of all time in one thousand nine hundred nine. NBC stand up comedian. Comedian Jerry Seinfeld and his writing partner. Larry David to write and produce a ninety minute late night special instead they wrote a thirty minute script for the pilot. NBC aired the Seinfeld Chronicles on July fifth. One thousand nine hundred eighty nine as a special in prime time though they pulled a decent audience. NBC Wasn't sure if they wanted to make it into a full-fledged series the audience just didn't seem sold on the show and that scared the network it could be because the show at the time didn't include. Elaine and Kramer was called Kessler but Warren Littlefield President of entertainment at NBC. Really liked what Jerry and Larry were doing. It made the execs laugh so they cancelled a two who our Bob Hope special and stuck with Seinfeld the show about nothing and ordered a five episode season and pretty soon. Jerry Elaine saying George and Kramer were household names not only did seinfeld usher in a new era of TV comedy. It also introduced a lexicon lexicon of catchphrases and seinfeld `isms no soup for you. Sponge worthy. These pretzels are making me thirsty. Shrinkage regifter double. We'll dipper close talker low talker serenity now festivus for the rest of us not that there's anything wrong with it and master of my domain. It eventually spawned one hundred. Eighty episodes across nine seasons outside of Seinfeld. Nineteen Ninety was a banner enter year for TV because it also saw the premiere of two other legendary shows fresh prince of bel-air and the world's longest running Sitcom from the simpsons four main inches. Start you mind six five four three two one and and liftoff of the space shuttle Discovery with the Hubble Space Telescope Window on the universe in the number seven spot the Hubble telescope. Let's go the world's first space telescope started circling the earth in April one thousand nine hundred ninety marking the most significant advance in astronomy. Ronnie since Galileo's invention in sixteen o nine the eleven ton Hubble telescope which is the size of a bus cost one and a half billion dollars and twenty years to develop and that's why scientists were pretty devastated. When the first pictures taken with the telescope came back as nothing more than a fuzzy blur they soon discovered? There was a problem with Hubble's camera that couldn't be fixed from Earth. It was another three years before the space shuttle took astronauts to hobble to replace the camera but it was worth the wait. The first picture sent back to Earth were breathtaking since then. Hubble has provided more than a million out of this world photos from new galaxies far so far away and produces much more than stunning pictures. It's scientific instruments have revolutionized our understanding of the universe. And it's history now almost thirty years old. Hubble is set to be retired a new telescope replacing it is expected to be launched in twenty. See twenty-one the James Webb Space Telescope will provide greatly improved resolution and sensitivity over the Hubble and it will enable a broad audrain of investigations across the fields of astronomy and cosmology including observing some of the most distant events and objects in the universe including including the formation of the first galaxies well on Wednesday December twentieth I ordered US troops to Panama with four objectives to safeguard the lives of American citizens to help restore democracy to protect the integrity of the Panama Canal treaties and to Brig Gen.. Manuel Noriega to justice. All of these objectives have now been achieved in the number. Six Spot Noriega surrenders on January third nineteen nineteen ninety Panamanian dictator. Manuel Noriega stepped out of the Vatican embassy in Panama City and surrender to US authorities. He taken refuge in the embassy after the US invaded Panama Noriega who ruled Panama from nineteen eighty three to nineteen eighty-nine spied for the CIA and tell drug trafficking and his brutal regime sparked the invasion once captured. He was whisked to Florida where he was charged with accepting four four point six million dollars in bribes to turn Panama into a waystation for Colombian drug traffickers. He was also accused of giving refuge to wanted cartel leaders like Pablo Escobar in one thousand. Nine hundred. Two Noriega trial marked the first time in American history that a jury convicted a Foreign Oren head of state on criminal charges. He stayed in a US prison until twenty ten. When he was extradited to France on charges of money laundering mm-hmm he served seven years in prison there and was then extradited to Panama where he remained behind bars until he died in two thousand? Seventeen before Noriega died. He tried to sue the creators of the call of duty video game. He claimed that his portrayal in black ops two damaged his reputation Asian. A judge dismissed the case in the number five spot. USSR in turmoil. Uh Soviet president. Mikhail Gorbachev's ambitious Perestroika Program of economic and political reforms floundered in nineteen ninety mm-hmm instead of making things better living conditions within the once great superpower continued to deteriorate with shortages of bread sugar remediate and cigarettes in February. The Communist Party gave up its monopoly. On power lifting the Iron Fist revived old ethnic and religious rivalries and it kindled separatist desires among some Soviet republics one by one Soviet countries grease declared sovereignty. Lithuania was the first when in March it proclaimed the restoration of its prewar. Independence next came. Estonia and Latvia. Moscow declared a state of emergency in Azerbaijan as Armenians and Azerbaijanis answer by Giannis clashed in the capital of Baku. Despite these problems at home Gorbachev was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in October Tober. Nineteen ninety for his role helping to end the Cold War free the eastern bloc and slow the arms race and just over a year later Gorbachev stepped down as leader of the Soviet Union and that same day the hammer and sickle flag of the Soviet Union was lowered outside the Kremlin for the last time it was replaced by the tri color flag of the Russian Tion Republic. It was the end of an era. Morale up here is tense. Everybody's scared but with the negotiations happening I think we have some hope into Resolving the situation number four the oak a crisis in the summer of nineteen ninety all eyes were on the small town of Oka Quebec where land claims dispute erupted in a dramatic format showdown between Mohawk protesters police and the army. It started when negotiations broke down over plans to expand a a golf course and condominium on the disputed land a group who called themselves. Mohawk warriers set up blockades to stop construction after an order came down from the mayor of Oca- Quebec police in riot gear. Stormed the barricades using tear-gas and concussion grenades to cause confusion. During the brief gunfight that followed a thirty one year old officer was shot and killed both sides claimed the other their side. Shot I the seventy eight day. Standoff that followed became known as the Mohawk resistance. Eventually the army was is called in to patrol. The area and finally an agreement was reached when the federal government purchased the land to prevent further development the expansion of the golf course I was cancelled. The Oh crisis was a turning. Point in Canada catapulted indigenous land rights into the spotlight and it led to the establishment publish -ment of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal People. The commission's Nineteen ninety-six report highlighted many issues including the ongoing effects of the Indian residential central school system. The picture has become a familiar one in the past two weeks frustrated Indian bands blockade. HCP AND CNN rail lines in northern Ontario to force a swift resolution of their land claims OCA- also set the tone for indigenous resistance resistance throughout the nineties and inspired many people and communities to take action for years to come in protests o'clock. What sound an ear wash as well as the idle no more movement? It was an awakening for an entire generation and helped change the course of Canadian history country. It helped clear the path for the government of Canada's apology to residential school survivors and the creation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and which has laid the first few steps towards reconciliation in Canada two. AM local time. Iraqi troops crossed the border into Kuwait. Number three the invasion of Kuwait when Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein ordered the invasion and ocupation of Kuwait on August. Second Nineteen Ninety. It set off a dizzying sequence of events that would eventually result in the first Gulf War. Her first the United Nations ordered a worldwide economic and military embargo against Iraq. It required all all member nations to stop importing oil from Iraq and Kuwait and to halt nearly all exports to the Baghdad regime including weapons. Then there was a build up of American and allied forces in the region and finally the U N authorized use of force against against Iraq. If it didn't withdraw from Kuwait by January Fifteenth Nineteen ninety-one Saddam Hussein steadfastly refused and that led to the launch of Operation Desert Storm. US President George H W Bush made the announcement now and the twenty eight countries with forces in the Gulf area have exhausted. All reasonable efforts to reach a peaceful resolution have no choice but to drive Saddam from Kuwait by force. We will not fail. The International Military Coalition of countries included Canada Edita Britain France Germany the Soviet Union Japan Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Incidentally it was the first time. Canada sent women to war in combat roles after a five week bombardment from air and sea. A ground invasion took place and within one hundred hours coalition forces drove Iraq from Kuwait. A ceasefire was declared on February twenty fifth nineteen ninety-one and Saddam Hussein was allowed to stay in power. This was a controversial decision that would eventually lead to a second Gulf War in two thousand and three read the Iraqi government and military collapsed within three weeks of that invasion and on November fifth. Two thousand six Saddam Hussein was found found guilty of crimes against humanity. He was sentenced to death by hanging. He died on December thirtieth two thousand and six and the crowd getting excited. There's was the Mondello Mr Nelson Mandela Freeman shaking his first steps into a new South Africa number. Two Mandela's walked to freedom. Read them with his fist. Raised in the air anti-apartheid leader Nelson Mandela walked out of prison and into freedom on February eleventh seventh. Nine thousand nine hundred ninety. It was the first time he had been seen in public since one thousand nine hundred sixty four when he was sentenced to life behind in bars for a charge of sabotage at the time of his trial Mandela was a rugged young man in his forties a former boxer who let full cheeks a beard and a moustache now slim with greying hair. He looked like the distinguished elder stateman. He would soon become Mandela was taken by car through crowded streets to city hall where he addressed thousands of cheering. People are Marin in You're in a speech. Frequently drowned out by roars from the crowd. Mandela said today okay. The majority of South Africans Block and white recognize that apartheid has no future it has to be ended by our decisive of mass action. We have waited too long for our freedom following Mandela's release he led the ANC in negotiations with South African president. FW declerk to end apartheid and bring about a peaceful transition to a non racial democracy Mandela Ella and declared were awarded a Nobel Peace Prize in nineteen ninety-three for their work in one thousand nine hundred. Four Mandela was elected president in the country's first free elections as president. He established a Truth and Reconciliation Commission that investigated historic human rights violations and gave they vent to grievances. The commission allowed the country to heal and brought closure to a dark chapter of history. Mandela Bella left politics in one thousand nine hundred ninety nine but he maintained a very strong international presence as an advocate for peace reconciliation and Social Justice Justice Nelson Mandela died in two thousand thirteen at the age of ninety five and in the number one spot. Germany is reunited at midnight on October. Third Nineteen Ninety fireworks exploded at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin Germany over a million some people danced and celebrated the birth of a new country east and West. Germany were officially reunited after forty five years of the Cold War separation. This was the dramatic climax of a dizzying year change. The map of Europe had been redrawn drawn. Something that many believed would never happen. The path to a new Germany began a year earlier in the fall of nineteen eighty nine with pro democracy rallies in major cities throughout East Germany as the mostly peaceful revolution continued to grow the Communist. Meanest government was forced to open the Berlin Wall allowing East Germans to pass freely into the West for the first time since nineteen sixty one. Once that Boorda was open. There was no turning back the chancellor of a united Germany today called the fall. All of the Berlin Wall. Proof dreams can become reality. Doesn't I adds. Nothing has to stay as it is. She says no matter. How high the barricades czar two months? After reunification. All German elections took place and Helmet Kohl became the first chancellor of the unified country. Although this action came more than a year before the dissolution of the Soviet Union for many observers the reunification of Germany effectively marked the end of the Cold War it also cleared the path to a European Union. which would unite the nations of Western Europe in a spirit of economic cooperation? After centuries of bloody conflict nineteen ninety truly was the dawn of a new era And that's rob on nine hundred ninety and the top ten events that kicked off a decade. That changed the world. We'll be going deeper on Seinfeld. NFL Nelson Mandela and the crisis. In Two thousand twenty. So make sure to subscribe to our show so you never miss an episode. And while you're there don't forget yet to rate and review us it helps spread the word and get more people to find the podcast. Were available for free at apple podcasts. spotify Google podcasts and everywhere somewhere else you get your streaming audio you can also listen at curious cast dot CA. If you're new to the show that's where you can go back and listen to some of our older episodes. You have show ideas or topics you want to cover in upcoming episodes. Please reach out to me. You can find me on twitter at nine hundred ninety history. I'm also on instagram. And facebook book and you can always shoot me an email at ninety s at curious cast dot CA. That's nine zero s at curious cast dot CA. This show is hosted hosted and Co written by me Kathy Zora and deal of Alaska's our producer sound design and final production is by ROB. Johnston see you next time for more or history of the ninety S.

Nelson Mandela Mike Tyson Jerry Seinfeld Nineteen Ninety Soviet Union Kuwait Saddam Hussein grammy East Germany Rob Pilatus US Fab Morvan Iraq Canada Kathy Zora Truth and Reconciliation Commi NBC producer buster Douglas
The Standoff Over Food and Power in Venezuela

The Daily

23:46 min | 1 year ago

The Standoff Over Food and Power in Venezuela

"From the New York Times. I'm Michael Varvara. This is the date. Today. The crisis in Venezuela is worse as president Madero were fuses to give power and is blocking food from entering the country as his people star why in Medeiros mine giving up control of food is giving up out. It's Monday, February eleven. Nikki where are you right now? I'm on the border of Venezuela. I'm on the Colombian side of the border. She's become one of the ground zeroes of this crisis. This is where hundreds of thousands of people Venezuelans have crossed the border looking for food because there isn't any on the other side of the border. Nick case covers South America for the times. People don't have food. They don't have medicines that they need. And just this week. What you see here? The first shipment of what we hope will be a great flood humanitarian relief for the people of Venezuela. A large shipment of aid came from the United States truckloads of food and supplies arrived that the Venezuelan border with Colombia today food and medicine on display in Kuku Columbia. It's housands of bags and boxes with food and medicine for Venezuelan people right on the border with neighboring his way. This is just a beginning. And it's sitting on the border, but between that aid. And Venezuela is blockade that's been set up by nNcholas Maduro, the president appears to termined to keep the foreign aid out. He's blocked this aid from getting in with tanker with a couple of shipping containers. It looks like it's troops on it through. And it sent the message that he does not want it coming into his country. The message from President Nicolas muddle, stay out. Nick, why would the president of NS Walea block badly-needed food from entering his own country? Not, but as it will allow the jurors said that Venezuelans aren't beggars simply as that. But one of the things he seems to be most worried about is the possibility that this is a trick for him. If these are historic days who says that could decide between war and peace. We demand the end of US aggression and threats of military intervention that this aid is coming in as something which looks like a gift, but is actually some kind of Trojan horse being sent to stabilize him to overthrow him alternately. He's suggesting that the food is not actually humanitarian aid. It's a trick. Even though that sounds farfetched. Yes, it seems extremely farfetched because there's millions of people suffering and without food on the other side of the border. But when you look back not just in Venezuela. But also in Latin America large, you see a long history of the US meddling in this region. And overthrowing people that doesn't want to be in charge. The first important thing, you can do is to be sure, you know, what communism really is. And how socialism ties with it? In other words know your enemy. So it's hard to say exactly where it begins because there's so many examples throughout this region. But the time that it really started to pick up was the Cold War. These were the years after World War Two when communism and capitalism were at their loggerheads and Latin America had become the big chessboard for the to the first week of a year when Astros revolution overthrew raging. So this was a time where Latin Americans were trying to decide with they were going to throw their lot with the United States or with Russia. So at this stage, the US starts to get involved in these countries directly in their elections in their democracies in subtle ways in overt ways. And one of the most extreme examples of this chilly at nineteen three. Nineteen Seventy-three chilly. It began with the election of of Salvador Allende. Who was from the left and had a very clear vision for where he wants to take the country. If. Our political Mundo like the soccer, our one that Richard Nixon who was president of the time deeply disagreed with early on Nixon said, Shelly, of course, is interested in obtaining loans, from international organizations where we have a vote that the only way to deal with it was to make the Chilean economy scream, and I ended the wherever we had a vote where Chile was involved that unless there were strong considerations on the other side that we would vote against the US was looking for ways to get rid of IN day from the moment, he stepped the presidential palace. And this all came to a head in September nineteen Seventy-three when after all of this destabilization that the US had backed a group of military officers decided that they were going to take charge. This began with an assault on the presidential palace. La Moneda, which everybody in Chile who was alive remembers. They remember seeing the pictures of the smoke coming up from the presidential palace. Like if you'd seen smoke coming up from the White House because it had been attacked by armed force. Shortly afterward. I n d shot himself dead in the president for pas, and that was the end of democracy in truly knock one dot. Got it. Please. A military junta took charge and the US recognized it this laid the foundation for one of the most famous dictatorships in Latin America, which was the dictatorship of Costa Pinochet. That on reversal. Her own. This government started to round up anyone who was seen as one of its political opponents and took them to the national stadium where the began torturing them. I so quiet about brutality. I've seen a man with three men with guns on and then disappearing for a little while into the shade of the back of the stadium into a room in the back of the stadium. And then we saw some innate just could make nothing carried out. This is some of the darkest days that Chile had, but at the same time truly hit become one of America's closest allies in America for the lions with a man who had become their dictator. So what began as a US effort to oust I n day because Nixon fear that he leaned too much toward Russia ends up leading to the rise of a replacement who is by all accounts, much, more dangerous and destructive to the people of July. And that was just one example of where the US tried to Termine the fate. Of a country in Latin America, it was high Khobar Benz goose mine in nineteen fifty four Guatemala leftists who overthrown by CIA back to coup. Backfire power have compelled the hosting of what I'm Allah's pro-communist regime. There was the bay of pigs which was ordered by JFK when they tried to use Cuban exiles to invade Cuba. Ulan revolutionary troops such as these heaven needed Castro's left us there the contras in Nicaragua these right wing paramilitary groups that were being funneled money from the Reagan administration to overthrow the Sandinistas in Nicaragua to many phone of Central America's just that place way down below Mexico that can't possibly constitute a threat to our wellbeing. There was the overthrow of Manuel Noriega Panama in the late nineteen eighty s to protect the integrity of the Panama, Canal treaties, and to Brig geN Manuel Noriega to Justice. And there was even Venezuela self in two thousand and two when there was a coup against you who charges president Medeiros predecessor. Minnesota. Swen allah. And I didn't have to remind us what happened back then Walea. So Hugo Travis had been elected democratically in one thousand nine hundred. Go money out of you. Don't my decoy. No more. I started to take a hard turn toward the left. And he was during to hit a lot of the historic trip wires with the US in December president new go Chuvash expropriated this four thousand hectare cattle ranch from Venezuela's wealthiest families. He was talking about land redistribution he wanted to take control of the state oh company. Now, remember Venezuela has the world's largest proven reserves of oil in it. So this is something that was making the US perk-up. And this was the man who eventually would go to the UN and say that George W Bush was the devil and that he could still smell the sulfur on the podium. Willie? I sue for it. Here president of Sony. Oh, hockey and your LDL. This was someone who is setting himself up in direct conflict with the United States and making no bones about that. And so what does the US too? So. Marketers meal is personas que est copy Talbani salon, and there was talk of a coup that was coming in Caracas. Now, interestingly enough, there's a CIA document which showed that they weren't interested in this. They didn't think that KU was going to work the United States officials explicitly make clear repeatedly. Two opposition leaders at the United States would not support a coup, and they were only going to support a democratic solution. But in April of two thousand and two massive protests develop on the streets of Caracas. And those end up right in front of the presidential palace. And there's bloodshed there. At that point the military stepped in and said, we're taking charge of this country. Travis has lost control. Mealy? Our milder than fully. Countries across Latin America were saying we can't support this coup. Now when people ask the US immediately. What do you think of this? What's what's happening in Venezuela? The US didn't tell the world of what it had told those that were planning the coup originally, it said that it supported the new president, and that this was the only way to head towards democracy in Venezuela. Let me share with you. The ministrations thoughts about what's taking place in Venezuela that remains of somewhat fluid situation. But yesterday's events and Venezuela resulted in a change in the government and the assumption of transitional authority until new elections can be held the details. Still around clear, we know that the action encouraged by the shabas government provoked this crisis essentially backing coup that had taken place in the country. According to the best information available. Shabas government, suppressed, peaceful, demonstrations government, supporters on orders from the Chevy government fired on unarmed, peaceful protesters resulting in ten killed and one hundred wounded it turned out to be a mistake. Because within days Travis being deposed supporters came down from the bar goes and said. This isn't what we asked for surrounded the president of house again and Travis was returned to power. Venezuela. Dna soda. This. About. Navy talk. And the US ended up in the position where it not only supported the person that didn't become president. But it also supported yet another coup in Latin America, Nick, y so long after the Cold War, which basically ends in the early nineteen nineties would the United States play any meaningful role in the fate of a country like Venezuela. You know, it looked like the temptation of being a a superpower was just too great. They had the chance to influence the course of a country's history. And they took it and the president address that this morning in the Oval Office when he said that there's a lesson to be learned. It's a question will present shabas learned the lesson. So the irony of all of this is that in supporting this coup the US gave charges the tools to make America the boogeyman and actually start his very radical project of transforming Venezuela. He purged the military. He set up parallel parts of the governor. And he also laid the groundwork which Madero started using when he became president to completely undermine Venezuela's democracy and set into motion the crisis that we've got today. So how do these historical examples factor into Medeiros thinking in this moment two weeks ago, the United States officially recognized the legitimate government event as Walea and its new president. Long these have gone to be Medeiros nightmares right now. He was growing up when this happened with Salvador Allende, he was in the government win. This happened to Hugo Travis these are the points of reference that he has when he sees the US at his doorstep recognizing his rival, and we condemn the brutality of the Madero regime. Dozens of countries come out port way, though, saying that they don't recognize Maduro anymore. This must be what's going through his head. And is he right to think that is it fair to compare it? What's going on that with Chile or with shovels who the hard question in Medeiros head? It's probably a fair comparison, but Madero isn't a yen day. And he's not Hugo Chavez Salvadorian days daughter came out, recently and said Madero. Is not like my father don't make that comparison. Salvador Allende was democratically elected, Hugo Chavez was democratically elected. We're not talking about a democratically elected leader who is trying to lead a transformation of his country. Retiring about someone who's desperate and trying to hang onto power Madero in order to win reelection head to ban all his closest rivals from even participating. They've put out a rest warrants against members of the opposition the crackdown on protesters when they come out into the streets. If killed scores of people so Madero is right to fear that the US is trying to undermine him. But he's wrong in seeing himself in the tradition of AMD as a democratically elected leader who the US is trying to house te. Yes, what is the same? Here is that the US has gotten invested once again in regime chain and the weapon that they're wielding right now is food food that. They want to cross the border to go into the hands of Mr. Medeiros rivals for those rivals to be seen as legitimate government of the country because they can distribute the food and eventually for Madero to be toppled by all this. And what's interesting is that Madero has a history of using food as a weapon himself. His government is in charge of food distribution the country, especially for the poor. And during the last election, he repeatedly said that if he won reelection. He would give major food bonuses to poor areas. Especially those who had voted for him. He called his Dan Louis Dando, which in Spanish would mean, I give you give in other words, you give me your vote, and I give you the food. Wow. So he understands better than anyone that the person who controls the food is the one who controls the votes in the country, and it sounds like the US understands that just as well. Yeah, it's a lesson which definitely hasn't been lost on the US. So that's the thing that bothers mature of the most that's the thing that he's worried about when he's looking at those containers on the other side of the border. Self-declared? Interim president Quang Ngai door seems hopeful that he can provide what Malvo cannot while at the same time tempting the military to change sides. And if they don't there's a plan b. It all mean. I'm convinced it we will get the I through with Vinas walence people people and more people carrying the humanitarian aid people people and people making humanitarian corridor reality. But if the opposition fails that this this is going to have huge consequences for them. They've said they can open a humanitarian corridor into Venezuela. They've got Venezuelans hope of that. There might be food on their shelves that there might be milk in the refrigerator, they might have something to eat. And if they can't do that is not clear who's going to fall them and not clear, whether people are going to think of them the same way that they're thinking of Madero another politician that can't give them anything to eat. So that is why Madero is blocking this food. This is the meaning of the Trojan horse. He knows that if the food gets into the hands of his opponents and opponents begin distributing it to hungry this way Len's than they become the defacto governor. -ment and Madero could be seen as even less legitimate than before windows, a politician. And he knows the politically there's more at stake than just that food. But for the Venezuelan people for people who are hungry for people that I've talked to that have had to flee in his Walea. I've talked to many of these people they're not concerned about politics at that point. If you don't have food for your kids your thinking about whether you have something to eat in the morning, you're not thinking about that geopolitical chess game that's taking place at the border. If you're hungry. This is food. You just want to eat it. Right. You don't care about the politics of this. You just need something to eat. No make. Hoping for food or anything else for me. I want this aid to get in because people are dying. This annoys, Tom Moody, and Mr President, we are dying families are dying. In the days since the US declared its intention to replace nNcholas Maduro as president of Venice Walea. The Trump administration has appointed a special on void to the country who earlier in his career was deeply involved in some of America's most controversial Cold War activities in Latin America, the envoy Elliot Abrams pleaded guilty to withholding information from congress in the nineteen eighties about the Reagan administrations illegal scheme to fund the contras in Nicaragua and documents show that Abrahams. Also misled the public about human rights abuses in El Salvador, including the massacre of nearly one thousand civilians by US trained soldiers. You know, what's not smart the way hiring used to be job boards that overwhelm you with tons of the wrong resumes. Now, there's a smarter way at ZipRecruiter dot com slash daily. Ziprecruiter's powerful matching technology finds the right people for you and actively invites them to ply. It's no wonder that's recruiter is rated number one by employers in the US and right now listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash daily. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash daily. Yours. What else you need to? Thank. To stall right now. I'm hoping we can get off the dime later today or in the morning because times taken away on Sunday negotiations over a long-term border security agreement between Democrats and Republicans appeared to break down increasing the odds of another government shutdown by the end of the week. We've got some problems with the Democrats dealing with ice that is detaining criminals that come into the US and they want to cap on them. We don't want to cap on that the seventeen house and Senate members charged with negotiating deal, including Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama have reached an impasse over how many undocumented immigrants the US can detain at any given time with Democrats demanding limits that Republicans will not accept under the temporary spending Bill has to end last month shutdown government funding will want out by Friday. Prompting acting White House chief of staff, Nick Mulvaney on meet the press to suggest that a shutdown was still quite possible. We cannot definitively rule out of government shutdown the end of this week, you absolutely cannot. They shut down entirely off the table the answers now. That's it for the daily. I'm michael. See you tomorrow. You're listening to the daily to be informed about the world smart move. Here's another smart move. Refinancing your student loan debt with first Republic Bank. First Republic has some of the lowest fixed rates in the country. 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US president Venezuela Latin America Madero government Mr. Medeiros Hugo Travis Nick Mulvaney Chile America Salvador Allende nNcholas Maduro New York Times Walea President Nicolas muddle CIA South America