4 Episode results for "Maggie Gee"
RFT 436: WASP Documentarian Erin Miller
"This is the ready for take-off podcast episode four, thirty six my name is George. In today I'm talking to Aaron Miller but first, let me tell you about our sponsor, the ham-fisted novel series. If you like aviation combat action, it's brought by real events in Vietnam I know you're really going to enjoy the Hanff this novel series and you can get the first audio book in this series totally free just on her show notes and you'll see how you can do that by signing up for an account with audible. But right now, fasten your seat belts and get ready for takeoff. I'm talking today to Aaron Miller. Now, Erin is not a pilot, but she is the granddaughter of a wasp that's women's airforce service pilots, and she has a fascinating story to tell. So Aaron, thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you for having me your welcome so What I'd like is for you to to share with us what what your grandmother has shared with you about her flying story, and then we'll get to your story of how you how you made things right for your grandmother. But can you tell us how she got her starting aviation? So. My Grandmother. Elaine. Dan. For harmon was born in Baltimore Maryland in Nineteen nineteen and she grew up in the city and was born at home in her house. And had two siblings and was very independent. sporty did a lot of rotor bike and very athletic growing up and she attended the University of Maryland in College Park. Maryland for college. and. She did lots of activities there as well. She was a cheerleader she was on the rifle team swim team. She was in a sorority in all kinds of things very active and her senior year of college. She saw an advertisement in the school newspaper for the civilian. Pilot Training. program. Which I'm sure your listeners are familiar with but it was a program in the nineteen thirties to have more people in the United States prepare to get a pilot's license and Senate was I guess subsidized by the US government and it was offered through a lot of universities and university. Of Maryland was one of them. And Anyway. So they had an advertisement for this program where you could learn how to fly and it costs thirty five dollars. Or forty dollars and you got thirty five hours of flight training and ground school and whatever. So my grandma thought that would be cool. So she applied and at the time which doesn't sound like a big deal you're signing up for a class nowadays. But back, then if you were a woman, they only accepted one woman for every ten men in the class. So you kind of had to I don't I never asked her if there were comp competition about this or she just happened to be the only woman that applied I don't really know but anyway. So, she asked her dad for the money and she also had to get a permission slip signed because she was female and under the age of twenty one and not married. So her dad had to sign a permission slip and that's how she initially took pilot training lessons West, through this program at the University of Maryland. Very. Cool. So after she got her thirty five hours, did she continue to fly on her own? Not Really she I think she did a little bit but she basically that was in nineteen, hundred forty, sue her last year of college. She got her pilot's license and then not too long after that, she got married in the summer of nineteen forty one. To my grandfather, and then as your listeners I'm sure. Well, aware six months later Pearl Harbor happened. So I don't think you flying around was generally something that happened. A Lot. So at that point, my grandmother and grandfather were moving around a lot to support the war effort they lived in Ohio at one point for a while and we're kind of working at different places. And and so how did she get back into? So in nineteen, forty, three, I believe there was an big. The Women Airforce Service pilots kind of became newsworthy and there was a little bit of news about them. Newsreel. The old newsreels are in life magazine, and so my grandmother heard about this program called the WAAS. And thought she could apply and she asked my grandfather. If he thought it would be a good idea and he thought it would be a great idea for her. So she applied and she kind of didn't really think she would get in because she really the most she had done was that civilian pilot training program she didn't have a lot of hours. And she kind of applied and thought oh well, we'll see what happens but they accepted her. So that's how she ended up becoming one of the Watson. Then she started training in April of Nineteen, forty four where did she go for Carini? She was in sweetwater Texas Avenger field, which is in western Texas. About an hour west of Abilene Texas. Now. Did your grandfather go there with her when she went there No. So my grandfather was an engineer and he later became a patent attorney, but he was not in the service because he had a physical defect so he was So, he couldn't serve in the army. But he was I think recruited I would say by a company to actually manufactured airplane parts called Jack and Heintz which some people may not because I've seen their parts in the in the warbirds He got sent to Asia to work on a plan to repair aircraft for the US military in theater in the Pacific. So the planes didn't have to be sent back to the continental United States to be repaired to save time. So he got sent over there to work on that program as a civilian, and so he was gone during this time when she was trainy. tweet water. Aircraft was she trained in? So she was trained on I think they were all trained on basic plane. So things like the the steersman PT, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, eighty, sixes, bt, Thirteen's neither all planes that she was training on. And what did she eventually flawed she I assume she was multi current and flew a lot of different airplanes as wasp. Yes. So all the WAAS flu lots of different planes and there were groups of wasps that were trained to fly every plane that was produced during World War Two from little trainer planes all the way up to be twenty nine bomber. So not every wasp was trained to fly every plane obviously but they're little groups trained to fly like you know pursuit crafter bombers or whatever. So. She was trained to fly bt thirteen's to train men in instrument training. So that was her job after she graduated. So she was transferred to Nellis Air. Base. In Las Vegas. And with her best friend from the WAAS Maggie Gee and Magnesia was to- target pilot in Las Vegas. So they were transferred there and my grandma trained men on instrument training in the thirteen. And she was also has some time as a co-pilot on the B seventeen. Now did she any or overseas? No. The Watson really do that there were some women at the very early stages of this experiment as the government called it that went to England to work a little bit. But the Women Airforce Service pilot program was domestic. So. She was training pilots in the. BTS thirteen percent. Yes and she stayed at knows the entire time then? Yes. So What? was was the wasp disbanded before the war ended or how did that occur? So, in the summer of so during this whole process, they army was debating whether they women are for service pilots should actually become official. Commissioned officers or members of the army, right? So I'm sure your listeners are familiar with a lot of work to history. They know there were women serving and other branches right in and in the army, right like doing other things. But since these women were pilots which was a competitive sealed with men, there was a lot of controversy about whether these women should be accepted as part of the army. So there had to be legislation in Congress to. Make them part of the army so that legislation was going through and there were a lot of debates about it from different like veterans, groups, or various people in the government that were debating the pros and cons of this and in the summer of nineteen forty one. The bill failed by one thousand, nine votes. So the wasp were not accepted as part of the army and at that point in the history of the war that you know like d day was ahead, all these things were happening and the war was a little bit turning towards Asia and. The army kind of felt like we may not need as many combat pilot. So it was okay to kind of I guess let the last program fall out. So they decided to cancel the program and it was canceled on December Twentieth Nineteen. Forty? Four. So. So then I, I assume she returned to. To, wherever home was Right. So at that point, my grandfather was still overseas in Asia and my grandmother returned to Baltimore and She was pretty bored 'cause most of the people were doing something with the war and she did you know her husband was overseas. So she decided to go to California to see a friend and she ended up working as an air traffic controller at Oakland. International Airport for a while Ah should know many female traffic controllers back then. That is a good question. I don't know the answer to that I on one hand I want to say, yes because you know we had all these women taking over jobs. So it seems like it would make sense but I don't actually know the answer to that question. Cheated until the end of the war says, she did that for a while I don't remember exactly how long. But at some point my grandfather came back from Asia and when he came back, they moved back to Maryland. Now did she continue to fly at any point after the war? Not Really She You know they like I said, she was already married. So they moved back to Maryland and. House eventually and. Ended up having four children. So I don't know that at that time running around with four kids. It was easy to go on flight planes. I don't know but My grandfather died in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, five. So my grandma became a single mom with four kids. I have a feeling flying planes not. You know highest priority at that time unfortunately. Sure. So she was dealing with that situation and I never knew my grandfather because he died before I was born so. Yeah unfortunately. Yeah. I think she always loved flying but I think after you know after the war didn't get a lot of. To do it. Soon now. It took thirty five years before the Wasp were were issued to fourteen. Can you tell us about that? So. As I explained earlier, the army was debating whether to let them in as formal members and the bill failed. So the war was over they. They went home and. World War Two veterans. Went on with their lives and got married and had kids or whatever. Some of them stayed in the aviation industry and some of them did other things. And in the nineteen seventies The Air Force and some of the the academy's started accepting women the Air Force said they air force performed in nineteen, forty seven. So they in the seventies they said, they were going to start accepting women's pilot trainees and things were going to be the first women pilots in the military or whatever, and the Wasp and my grandma and her friends were like we already did that. Maybe we should go like tell Congress about it and so they realize since they hadn't really been talking. About what they had done, which like lots of World War Two people just wanted to get on with their lives they had been forgotten. So they went to Congress in the seventies and lobby to get a bill passed to allow them to petition the Department of Defense to get recognizes veterans, and that was signed into law in Nineteen, seventy, seven by president. Carter and they petitioned the Department of Defense and my grandma received her dany to fourteen in nineteen seventy, nine, thirty, five years later. And known that the time when she decided, she wanted to be buried at Arlington. I don't know if that was the time my grandmother had attended some other funerals of her fellow WAAS Arlington previously, and at some point during that time had mentioned that she would like to be buried there too. So it you know something we'd knew about. No I understand that the the other women who were buried Arlington we're we're there because their husbands had been veterans were buried. There's that right. Yeah. So there was a little bit of you now controversy. So there were also a couple of other wasps that were buried there on their own. But in two thousand and two there was an argument about One of the wasp being buried she was being buried with her husband. So the issue wasn't that she couldn't be buried there. The issue was her daughter requested military funeral and the the. The Arlington Administration said No. So she launched a campaign to have you know her mom recognized and get a military funeral, and during that time they put out a release saying Oh. Yeah. The law from nineteen seventy seven. Let's them be buried here and let them have funeral. So we didn't. Think there was an issue so they had already talked about it once right so now. Take up to your grandmother passing away. So my grandmother passed away in April of two, thousand fifteen and as we mentioned, she had left a letter saying she wanted to be buried at Arlington and we already knew that so we weren't surprise. But when my mom applied sent all the paperwork in they told her that the wasps were not eligible to be there on their own merit and as I mentioned, my grandfather was a civilian so he was buried in a different cemetery. And we were a little confused because as I mentioned in two thousand two, they had already had this discussion but apparently a months before my grandmother died Arlington had done a review of their procedures and whatever and decided that certain groups like the wasp weren't actually entitled to be buried there on their own merit and we didn't know about this until we had applied to to have her that buried there. They rejected the application and it was it's the Department of the army that rejected it correct right. So the Department of the army runs Arlington National Cemetery and the Department of Veterans Affairs runs roughly a hundred and thirty seven other national military cemeteries but not Arlington. So the Wa. Happen team seventy seven. Language. Stating that the Women Airforce Service pilots and these other groups that eventually got benefits under the same law are eligible for benefits administered by the Veterans Administration. Which today is the Department of Veterans Affairs. So the army claimed that they were only veterans in the Department of Veterans Affairs and not other parts of the federal government. So now, if you're like most people, you just said Gosh too bad we'll bury her with GRANDPA but that's not what happened. Yeah. So you know at first, we were just really confused and a little irritated and and you know my mom and I did a lot of research and I was trying to help her you know figure this out look at the Wad. I told her I said you know legally I think you know they have a strong case like this is correct like that's the language says, and you know obviously, I don't agree with it can a grandma and I think it's terrible but like I think legally they technically might be correct. Now you're an attorney. So could tell what what made sense legally right. Yeah. So I was somewhat new attorney and I had finished law school at University, of Maryland. Couple years before that. So. I was putting some of my law school learning to use to figure this out. The next step up. So, then you know explain this to my mom and I said well, you know if we want to change this, we probably have to get a law passed so we should contact are You know members of Congress are senator whatever. So my mom facts, a bunch of information to our senator. and we got a response a couple of months later saying that. You know the. It was only a few sentences basically like we can't help you in. This is a situation and sorry. And that really irritated me. That's when I got really irritated 'cause up to that point. It was just kind of ambiguous. We don't really know what's going on and just waiting to something out and then when we got that response, I, was pretty annoyed and. I thought this can't be the last answer, right? So I decided we have to basically do a PR campaign and I was going to go to the news and get attention and tell people this is ridiculous and we need to have this changed and. I figured if we got a lot of attention, the army would change its mind. But then during that process I realized, we actually need to get a law passed because the army changes its mind and changes the law or changes the rule right now for us than next year, they could change it back. Sure. You at that point, we wanted to make sure that all the women airforce service pilots and all the people of these other groups had the same opportunity that my grandma would have if we got this done. So, what was the? What's it like doing a PR campaign I have no idea how to do that. Yeah. I didn't really know what I was doing either but. I just figured we have all the social media site posted my my first thing I posted something on facebook or instagram. I can't remember probably all of them and just talked about I posted a picture of my grandma's earned her wings and I talked about how she wanted to be at Arlington and they rejected her because of this. Weird. Loophole in the law and it was ridiculous that we were going to try to do something about it and all these people started responding like people I didn't even know when I was like wow. So all these people are so mad about it maybe we can get something done and then I started reaching out to news reporters and posting all over social media and just looking for anything to get people's. Interest and I connected with a local news reporter who does a lot of veterans stories on named Andrew McCarron who used to be at channel nine. But now she works at another organization the Pentagon Federal Credit Union Foundation, and she actually was the first one that did a story with me about this and that helped a lot more attention, and then eventually we were in Associated Press and all the. International news outlets picked it up. So that helped a lot. Did you go on national TV shows also new shows. I did I was on a lot of. National News Shows National News. Articles that type of thing CBS Evening News, and that kind of thing. We also had a petition on Change Dot Org. So that helped a lot too. So, we could post that all over the place. My sister managed that petition. So we got. Like. One hundred and seventy, eight thousand signatures on that petition. So that helped a lot and that helped get attention everything you do everything you do is just like a little piece of the puzzle you know. How do you get a law enacted? So. Because of all this attention. With the news more people in Congress are story and. At the time Martha mcsally, who is a retired air force colonel who flew the eight ten in combat. was a member of the House of Representatives from Arizona and her staff all this story and mentioned it to her and she being a pilot a woman. Knew some of the Wasp and decided that we should have a bill introduced to fix this. So she wrote legislation and had this introduced. So, then I went down to the hill, we met with her, and then I spent a couple of months walking around the hill, visiting all kinds of offices of both senators and. Members of the House. and talking to them and their staffs and making sure that they knew about it and. Wanting them to vote yes to get this passed. So when you go there, you just knock on the door and walk in their office and talk to whoever answers the door or make an appointment ahead of time. That? So a lot of times I would just walk down there and knock on doors and walk in tell them what I was there for and you know sometimes there's people available to talk to you, and if not, you make an appointment for another time and You know if you're here, you can do it. I know it's harder if you're in another part of the country, you have to call and talk to them on the phone but. If, you're here you can just walk around and knock on the door and talk to people. So how many members of Congress? Senate. Did you did you visit? I estimate that I visited a more than one hundred and fifty offices between the House of Representatives and the Senate. Now didn't any just say get out of here we're busy. Now now everybody was really pretty nice and that's why it's kind of a good story as people were mostly supportive and you know if it's hard to say no to someone who walks in and says, I need you to sign this bill so I can bury my grandma. It's It's pretty hard but people were pretty Nice and a lot of people really supportive. We had quite a few members of the House and the Senate who did news stories on their own about it. At which was really nice. So that was helpful. You know I think it was an issue that. You know both parties could see value in and. You know it was something good and positive. So it was a good experience. So when did it become law? So it was introduced, January six twenty sixteen and it was signed into law by the president of the United. States on May Twentieth Two Thousand Sixteen. Wow. That's great and then The. Funeral was. Happened immediately afterwards. So after the law got signed, my mom had to call again to Arlington make an appointment I mean sorry not making but requests a funeral date and since we had this new law passed and there this time they said, yes. So she called you know. I think that the next Business Day and which was in May and we got a funeral date in September. Assuming it had full military honors at the funeral. Yeah. So confusing another confusing thing about Arlington as they have different levels of military honors as well at funerals. So the top level is for people who were retired after twenty years of service or a flag officers and that kind of thing. But my grandma, there was another ambiguity about her service, which was since her duty to fourteen has ranked listed. She's technically you know not an officer or enlisted and just kind of its not applicable. So she got kind of like the second tier of honors, which is fine I didn't want to add that into the mix of things to argue about. But yeah. She had a bugler played taps and we had you know 21-gun-salute and and it was very nice. You know an guard and chaplain and that kind of thing. So, tell us tell us about writing the book and the book is called final final fight. How did? You wanted to tell your story or did somebody push you to to write this book out about happen? During this process of me, spending on his time walking around on the hill and talking to news outlets and things people kept saying Oh. This would make a great story or make a great book. You should write a book. I'm like. Her and I was really busy and didn't really think about it at the time but. After the bill became law, I always sudden had a lot more free time and a pile of notes and all these journals and appointment books that had been keeping track of notes for the reporters and stuff and I thought hey, I can write a book I have all this information. So I decided, I would write a book. So I spent that summer before my grandma's funeral writing the first draft of the book. And Win published. It came out February twenty nineteen. Twenty. Nine hundred and now it's not your picture on the cover. Is that your arm in the pit is my arm? Yes. I I sometime during this process i. was quite frustrated. I don't remember exactly what happened that day but I told my sister's on a call like, Oh, I should get something to commemorate this whole situation like a tattoo or something. So when the bill got signed into law, my sister's really I guess you have to get a tattoo now. So I went and got the bill number tattooed on my arm. I kinda suspected that won us over. The cover of the book and of course. That's that is very cool. Hundred Fourteenth Congress that is. We have a link to the book in our show notes, of course So this is a fascinating story. I usually ask my guess what advice they have for someone who's just starting out on flying but you're not a pilot but I know you spent a lot of time with your grandmother can you share with us what her? Rules for life were. So. Something people ask about my grandma's. Things about advice in life and all this stuff and something I tell people is you know my grandma did this thing that now is getting all the attention but she didn't really think of herself as this you know amazing special person she she had something to offer the country and she had a talent and she was a pilot and that's what she did to serve her country and she always you know I feel like she would tell people you know see what you can offer to your community and to the country and how can you help serve in some way right everyone has a talent or. Some knowledge or skill that you can offer and I think she was very into serving her community in her country and I think that would be an important message to people. So even flying I know people do civil air, patrol, and that sort of thing they're helping their community and that kind of thing is important. That's Great Aaron has been so great having you with us today that's a fascinating story and it shows a lot of determination and grit on your part, and I really appreciate you taking the time to be with us today. Well I. Very Much. Appreciate you having me on. I enjoy your podcast. Thank you. Thanks again for listening subscribe. Now, the ready for takeoff podcast on itunes or stitcher radio and please rate US post review on the store for Shono to resources and more head over to ready for take-off PODCASTS DOT com.
014 - Kala Bagai
"Hi everyone back in August, we lost her campaign to fundraise for the show and a bunch of you became monthly supporters. So thank you so much as of this episode were up to fifty nine supporting members and each and every one of you make it possible for me to keep telling asian-american stories. One of the Donors WanNa shout out and thank is Kathy Fam-. Who is now the owner of a soft Blue Asian. Americana t-shirt. If you want to also help us share asian-americans, stories and voices, you can join our patriotic just clicked support at Asian Americana Dot Com we've got plenty of stickers shirts to send your ways of. Thank you. And if donating isn't your thing, no problem reading and reviewing our show on apple podcasts or just sharing the show with your friends. Huge difference. Oh and we're working on an upcoming episode about Asian American Comfort Foods, and we want to hear from you. You can record video or voice memo of yourself telling me about your favorite comfort food introduce yourself. Then describe your food tell us when and where you developed your love for it, and maybe share a memory about it whether it's a traditional dish your family made food from potlucks and parties your creative culinary creations, a meaningful restaurant or even your favorite junk foods I wanna hear it all. You can email those recordings to quincy at Asian Americana Dot Com. I can't wait to listen to them. All right. One more thing before we start today's show. There's a mention of suicide in today's story nothing graphic but I wanted you to know before the episode starts please care for yourself. However is best for you. Okay. Here's the show. I'd like to call to order the regular meeting of the Berkeley City Council for Tuesday, September Fifteenth Two Thousand Twenty so we are now going to go to public comment on the calendar. And you're hearing is a city council meeting. In Berkeley California Watt One minute unity members are calling into comment in favor of renaming one of Berkeley's trees Monica. I'd like to speak to number eleven as well. My Name is money show Josh I'm a professor of education at the University of San Francisco, thank you for your support of Culebra Guy Way this is an important moment for Asian Americans Berkeley one in five Berkeley residents is Asian American and we have a long and vibrant history here but you wouldn't know that from our streets our schools are parks and our buildings where at a historic folks are calling in to advocate for a street in Berkeley to be renamed Della Guy. South Asian immigrant who came to Berkeley over one hundred years ago. Anyhow numbers my name is he I'm releasing cal Grad who graduated back in May of this year there really is sincere excitement among the Berkeley student community when it comes to this renaming, I think especially among students of color in South Asian students in particular were all itching to see ourselves represented such concrete way Pun completely intended Hello good evening, Mr Mayor and City Council members leading was Michelle McGowan, and calling in from Washington DC and on behalf of Asian and Pacific Islander Americans in historic preservation I'm here to support the naming of callow. Guy Way to the best of our knowledge. The City of Berkeley has little to no landmarks, monuments or markers recognizing the historical and cultural contributions of Asian Americans or Pacific Islander I for. One and he goes for the Berkeley South Asian radical history walking tour speaking in support of caliber guy way you heard from just a couple of US tonight while others are watching the live streaming APP station of your boat stories of club often ignored by Berkeley institutions, and yet we know that telling of bigger more inclusive history of Berkeley has the power to transform. US and our city, a clever guy we allows us to both honor her and reconcile difficult moments for history. Thank you for voting in favor of caliber guy way giving us something to celebrate during these especially tough times that last person you heard was Bernales Gosh one of the main organizers of this renaming campaign I called her up to learn more I am Barnett Lico. Im One of the creators of the Berkeley Salvation. Walking tour so I would Tim South Asian South Asian American. I grew up in India and moved to renounce five i. you she her pronounce. So we've been doing Berkeley Salvation Radical History Walking tour since twenty twelve and Iran these tourists with my partner honor Van Chatterjee. Through the tours, we take a disappearance in groups of about twenty around the city of Berkeley and make stops at places that are of historical importance South Asian Americans, and we tell stories of resistance in. That happened in the City of Berkeley and those histories go back over a hundred plus years. So we share stories of cure organizing youth organizing after nine eleven, stories of feminist and freedom fighters. And we include stories also of oppression not only that our community has faced but also oppressions within our own community say homophobia or caste system. I asked her how she came to learn about caliber guy and organized this campaign under about an I are always looking for things that happened at Berkeley and trying to understand what the lives of people who live here. especially in the early nineteen hundreds was like when we started doing the tours, we definitely didn't know enough about caliber guy maybe a few years ago. I heard her oral history on the South Asian American digital archives website and I came across both the video and early history where she mentioned Berkeley and that immediately caught my Attention. But there's an extra factor that makes her relationship to Berkeley particularly unique. Her main relationship to the city was that she was turned away from the city and I think that district people up in trying to understand why is it in Berkeley team after caliber guy when she may be never even lived here today, we learned the story of Gullible Guy what was it like for South Asian woman immigration to the US in the early twentieth century and how did she build a community over her lifetime and why name street in Berkeley after her especially since she may not have spent much time living there if she did at all I'm Quincy Sarah Smith and this is Asian. Americana. Before we get into the details of Berkley Street renaming it's important to understand the person this campaign was about who was gullible guy here's Bernardi again. So we are still learning the details of caliber guys life and we're very lucky to know this part of the story because it's in caliber guys oral history, and that oral history is pretty much the only link we have to knowing of this experience. Well, it sounds like a good idea to listen to that too in living room with Jiji. Shades. Grandmother, we love very much. Today is the twenty sixth of November nineteen, eighty, two I mean Allah. When I came to the screenplay. I've are the printing Eso. I had told them that Scott Lauber guy herself speaking to us from Nineteen eighty-three. She'll help fill in some of the details with Brunelli. This magic. That's possible when you record your family stories anyway back the color here I her husband Vishnu desperate guy as Mr Bush. Come to. That was the story this Mr guys whereas. That time was God movement and what was the Gutter Movement? Was anti-colonial movement that started on the West Coast and was recorded in San Francisco and had a lot of members living in Berkeley election was very interested in even critics they're making his home in the US and working with other activists he had come across back in India action and. They want wanted to take the British over India. Mr Guy was in the womb and he says, I don't want to stand the sleep country. And want to come to America because America's forty country Mr for guys. Father had some money. So Mr for guide toward his. A, you give me my share. And I wanted to go to a math. So. Then he told me to sit down. And listen and he was very, very good husband. I told you. So, listen he says he cookery to come to America his folks store him. Dorothy, rife in children. He says foreseeing I, go to America. And I've view my life here after a few years I come back. I'm not like crop. And sort of that's why I'm GONNA. Take a long verse smart at. Him and my children. So. That's all we all came together nomad. So the Moocher from shower, which is in modern day August on. She arrived in Cisco and Timber Nineteen fifteen and she came here with her husband Vishnu desperate guy and their three children. It happened to be Saturday. So or the board people say you can leave today. Learning, the office will be open, then you can go. I couldn't speak one word of English. But anyway when the eating time came, they said Calvin fellow. Understood that means tweet. I. So I kind of do like food. But I saw they were sending some troops. So I bossom through and I didn't know how much money do gear. So I took the money and put my hand this way. Let them. So. Tear. Death. We left the board. Because we have plenty of money, there was no question. Love the money. But they wanted to see I had all the jewelry on not all but I had some Mr Book Guy He. Got Some Frunze English poems. I don't know exactly how much but I know we were living very comfortably when we came here. And we rented a furnished rooms plus. And then gradually under the apartment and so on. Then at one point, most likely nine, hundred seventeen, they wanted to move to Berkey to be closer to other the rights who are living here around campus. Body hours. And So, around the House we bid for it and when they arrived with their luggage, they were basically blocked from entering the House that they had bought. The neighbors. Inside locked the doors. They will not him because we were from India. Love, your house so you can get into your own house. No. I saw all other luggage and everything was loaded on the trucks and that left a deep impression on caliber guy where she immediately to avoid snow. Guy Said I don't want to live in this neighborhood. I don't want to live in this house because of they might burqa my children. And I don't want it. He of the so we. took the truck and everything back and eventually they would end up making some cisco their home life for the guy. Family would continue onward in San Francisco. The next few years Vishnu would open up a shop buy and sell homes and move their family around the city building his life in the US they were settling into their new lives in one thousand, nine, hundred, twenty vision does the guy applied and got citizenship. Was living in some Cisco at that time he had applied for a passport but just three years later, a certain Supreme Court case would change their lives and the lives of any south. Asians living in the US at the time. During this time, the federal law on the US allow only quote free white persons on quote and Quote Persons of African Nativity or persons of African descent unquote to naturalized and become citizens. But what a free white person meant back then was still pretty douglas a Japanese American man named Cow Zoa applied for citizenship in Nineteen fifteen but a supreme. Court case in nineteen twenty two ruled his Japanese ancestry ineligible for citizenship. But got sing thin was sick indian-american who had moved to the US served in the US army during World War One and applied for Citizenship Multiple Times only for the Supreme Court to rule in nineteen twenty-three that people of Indian descent were also not eligible for citizenship thin got his citizenship vote along with about fifty other Indian Americans and one of those Guy. It did lead to him using some of the wealth that he had brought. So keep tried after he lost his citizenship to fight it. and. Continuously trying to figure out how he could get citizenship back. But we know that he struggled through that because it was only five years later that he decided that this was just too much for him. The following is an excerpt of a letter vicious guy wrote to the San Francisco Examiner he was published on March Seventeenth Nineteen Twenty eight. I came to America, thinking dreaming and hoping to make this land my home. Sold my properties and brought more than twenty, five thousand dollars gold to this country. Established myself and tried my very best to give my children the best American education. In the year nineteen, twenty, one, the federal court. San. Francisco. Accepted me as a naturalized citizen of the United States. And issued to my name, the final certificate. Giving their in the name and description of my wife and three sons. The last twelve or thirteen years. We. All made ourselves as much Americanized as possible. But they now come to me and say I am no longer an American citizen. They will not permit me to buy my home and low. They even shall not issue me a passport to go back to India. Now, what am I? What have I made of myself and my children? We cannot exercise our rights we cannot leave this country. And insults. Who is responsible for all this? Myself. And American government. I do not choose to live the life of an enduring person. Yes I am in a free country. And can move about where and when I, wish inside the country. Is. Life both living in a gilded cage. Obstacles this way blockades that way and the bridges burned behind. Yes you can call me a coward in one respect. That I did not try to break the mountain with my naked. Vist. He Pretty, much field St, Louis, and stock, and also is not able to make a life for himself. Here be the entrepreneur that he wants to be or even support that got party. So he feels bay stock and he ends up taking his own life. A Passed away. and. Passed away he was quite young. He was only. He was. then. I will really loom. And I wasn't loved I had to I didn't know what to do but telephone support from other members of our community Gentlemen. Dixon. And He became very good friends of multiple guys. Dixon, he was very good to me. He insisted. And so he told me, he says, don't cry. You Go. To School. And you learn English also because your mind would be changed you know. In the meantime also then we became very friendly with this. Children that are family. One particular member of that family, Mahesh, would become a bigger part of his life. He ran into. Maddie me. All right but one condition. Climatic you but. You not. That I'm Eddie you. Because the people being like it. And he's okay. So arena here and continued onward in San Francisco for the next couple of decades after that well, I'll let her family ask. A question why did you move from San Francisco to Los Angeles that because? Mom was going to college here. And he decided to stay there. So is it would be used for me to stay in. Goal. I won't be the last. Son. You See. So that's why I need two. Years. Odd since. Nineteen Thirty Eight Third. Box this house as Bernales said, we're lucky to have this recording with her but after that, it just has more family conversations until the tape ends anyway it's it's good. We had the session Jiji. Really appreciate. Excellent. That's. What a nice time just before Romney's going to get married and her precious day that she's been looking forward to, we could reminisce of some of the families of their dad and a grandfather and grandmother. And A. Really, this is a good occasion and we WANNA. Thank you so much of course, her story doesn't end there like I mentioned in the tape she moved to. Los. Angeles with her family. In nineteen, forty six, the US passes the loose seller act which opened up a very tiny amount of immigration from the Philippines, India and importantly allowed people from those places to apply for citizenship. So in the years following that caliber guy and her family were able to become US citizens. But while that oral history recording was a great start, I wanted to learn what happened next. So I spoke to someone who was a little more familiar with the details of gullies life. It was something I really grow up with kind of knowing that my grandparents were a part of history along ago kind of history in that, my grandmother Kulla was one of the first few Indian women to come when they stepped off the boat, the Angel Island back in Nineteen Fifteen. Newspaper reporter interviewed them and said, wow, this is the first Indian woman to set foot in this city in ten years. And the whole story of you know how they came in and how they were admitted through immigration. You know with something that was always passed down on my family. That's runny. Book Guy My Name Is Ronny Guy I am retired and I live in Seattle currently and my mother was from Ohio Northern European extraction might father was Indian. Cullum Agai was my grandmother, my father's mother. I asked running to tell me more about her grandmother and her story. Well, I I guess I want to describe a little bit. She was always to me like this very old woman she was tiny. She was about four foot nine and she was kind of a fireball. She was very energetic. She was very warm and say she was a wonderful cook. In our family growing up, you know if we had achieved great success or something or got good grades. She you're my dad would say shush. which was a I think job word and when we heard that you know and it was set very rarely. But when we heard it, we knew we accomplish something very remarkable but she also say when you want to pray someone basically when you clap someone on the back, do it with both hands? Never. Just give faint praise. Absolutely put your wholehearted. Donald Back. That was kind of the person she was when we were listening to the oral history earlier, the tape ended shortly after she mentioned, she moved to Los Angeles. So I ask runny to pick up the story from there. She made her home in Los Angeles about the same time. My Dad moved down to go to school here. So my grandmother and grandfather moved down to join him. They bought a four plex with a very kind of traditional idea at the time she hoped that at least two of her sons would live there in units with them and my mother and father moved into one of the units as she had wanted. and. Another son he also came back with his wife and he moved into another of the unit. It was kind of this a family complex for awhile. Keller wanted to be surrounded by family and was very close with Rani's mother. She absolutely loved my mother she gave her a nickname Tara which in Hindi means star you know her other sons had their marriage is arranged by her in India is what they want, but my dad did not want that we wanted to. Do his own thing in his own way fall in love with who we want. So even though when my parents got married, my mother was divorced and had a son from a previous marriage. My grandmother completely accepted my mother did not resent that she's not a traditional Indian daughter-in-law as money's family grew though they eventually moved out in the forties. After my brothers were born, my parents decided to move to Fairfax area. We decided we need to have a place of our own. and. So they bought a house and that's where I was born and asked how I came along. Luckily, her family didn't move very far and run still got to spend lots of time with her grandmother. They live just a couple miles away from us. We went there to her house for dinner about every other week or so and not only we go to their house, but she would come to our house. She taught my mother to cook Indian food which my mom loved make when she did do her big family dinners at her place though being alleged -tarian. She would make a lamb or chicken curry she would cook it and it was fabulous. Now of course, she didn't need it but what she would do, she would always call my dad over to the stove dascomb to taste it to see if it needed salt or anything you know which made it very happy and he would tell her you know oats perfect like I. Don't know how you do it, but it's perfect as much as color loved having her family over for dinner. She also enjoyed eating out and you know when in Los Angeles, I think her other favorite food was Mexican food I just remember our family going to L. Cello all the time, and one of her favorite things was a chilly Reno I guess speeches, they were spicy. It's made complete sense to her fellow also love the food that came with a certain holiday on her favorite holidays was thanksgiving. My grandmother just looked forward to the idea of someone else cooking the hides her and her just getting down to sit at this table and have all these things. She was a vegetarian. and Thanksgiving basically other than the Turkey she could eat every side dish. Just about a lot of it was from my my mother's side, the Ohio side, sweet potatoes, mashed potatoes, stuffing green beans, pies. My Grandmother was in heaven and she just loved that being able to have all this variety and experienced this whole array of different dishes. There was one particular value help that Ronnie made sure to emphasize to me. I just see her as being welcoming being generous in spirit. You know not only just wanting to have me over for dinner and a feed you but really wanting to be hospitable to strangers to make them feel at home. She had this real I. Think belief in the power that one has when one is kind to others stat that generosity of spirit itself it confers it's a sort of blessing that one bestows. It's I. believe they call it Darshan. And Damp something that she always believed was essential that one must always express that to others and. The welcoming to be generous that just was so important to hurt. Really who she was despite all the time she was not made to feel welcome herself. She applied the spirit of generosity and welcoming to her community when running would visit her grandmother. She often noticed other people visiting to we would like I said go over and usually those were long evenings. It wasn't just dinner and usually there were a few friends over because my grandmother was very, very social. She had this huge network of Indian American friends. So there is almost always other people at the dinner table sometimes, they were even just like, Ucla Indian students. I remember the sixties you know before the Immigration Act Nineteen, sixty five. There are very few Indian immigrants in the US the Indian network there was tiny and so everybody knew everybody and our network was pretty broad and inclusive. I remember my grandmother being friends with quite a number of very different women. My grandmother was a Sikh but she had so many friends who were from every region of South Asia then gall job south India. There were Muslim they were to meal. So it was release quite multi ethnic Jesus was a social person and just so much enjoy having social. Interaction with people all the time she just a party girl I guess Lagrua community from the seeds of those social circles. News, at she was part of this network, they call themselves the American lives of India, and they were were of a charitable organization like a fundraising. Organization. And they did a lot of work for Indian famine relief starting like not long after world. War Two. And the organization kind of morphed into more wanting to bridge the cultural divide to inform America about India India history and culture. You know back in the early part of the century India you know is considered again, very exotic place. You know you thought of elephants and fortune tellers and snake charmers and things like that and I wanted to. Get across that. There is much more than that. They put on all these Indian cultural events, things like art exhibits and dance recitals and music recitals and film screenings. ANNUAL INDIAN-AMERICAN PICNIC I recall with maybe a one hundred people or so it was like one giant potluck in Griffith Parker Rancho Park during the summer. And everyone we knew and maybe hadn't seen all year which show up with with the dish. It was really also to welcome to meet new Indian immigrants like they were. But also these were all open to the public they wanted to forge really American ties to and to enlighten the rest of America about who are. Indian. Jen. What is their culture? Sometimes, they'd even receive special guests from India and there were Oh my goodness so many. Indian dignitaries that were hosted anytime. Someone came there had to be reception and dinner one very distant memory is when I was six. I was given this Buca flowers to present to this man and I didn't know who he was but I do remember he had these kind is. He was wearing a white cap and he had a red Rosebud in his lapel and that was pundit Nero. That was and I think nineteen, sixty one. So yeah. They were kind of at the hardest all these different things bundle new by the way was a leader in the Indian independence movement and India's first prime minister. He's also the guy that jackets are named after, and here he was one of the guests of Gulliver guys community because of all her work building a South Asian Community during the Mid Twentieth Century one of her nicknames became mother India but for people in the community they addressed her by a different title. So my grandparents their first names were cola in Mahesh. They knew everybody they were at the heart of this this little community because they were here the longest. So they new everyone by CIDER name. But there were so well known and so well loved. That they insisted everybody called him simply Jiji and biology for a long time. I thought it was just meant grandma and GRANDPA, but high believe d something like big sister or aunt. So that's how I know my grandmother by her name Jiji. I never called her Kala even as the community grew over the years especially after the Immigration and Nationality Act of nineteen, sixty five opened up more pathways for South Asians to immigrate to the US color remained a presence in our community. Yeah. That was the thing you know she didn't slow down the older. She did do less and less hosting, but she's still always attended and you know it's funny after maybe the mid sixties when South Asians could finally immigrate in larger numbers, you know these social functions grew to where our family couldn't keep track of all new names and faces. And we didn't know everybody anymore. So today today it's so different like I think the US I was looking up at the South Asian community is now over five million people and I think that a lot you know has been forgotten about those early days and how tiny it was, how tiny it used to be and let the origins and beginnings of South Asian Community were here throughout her life running is always kept pieces of grandmother close to her you know certain symbols of her have always been very important to me. One is the simple dangle. She wore everyday a gold dangle. It's known as cutter. Yeah it's just been part of me. You asked my daughter my kid I think she's never seen without it. It's about the only piece of jewelry I wear. In it was given to me when she died back in nineteen eighty three and I think just put it on without thinking about it. And I've hardly taken off ever since it's just feels like a wonderful connection to her that is hard to describe. She gave her wedding necklace her own wedding necklace to my mother who wore it on her wedding day to her son. and. I wore the same necklace when I got married and I wear some of the other pieces on special occasions to drag them out but the earrings are sowing. They make my ear lobes ache, but you know it's a wonderful I feel that connection when I wear things like that and and needs a lot to me even with all those community network, she's built the family she's raised in the legacy that she left. She also got to have her own life and moments of humanity runny reflected a bit more on her grandmother's journey for women like her this new city San Francisco's like galaxies away from this world. She laughed I know she's homesick but she not only happened but just delighted in her new hall eventually she discovered early role in it and made her place in it and she became very excited to travel further which she did but she Wanted to go back to India. To Luke, she really loved America. She loved San Francisco and cheap. She loved Los, Angeles to. She. persevered she went through hardships but. She adapted and she had a really happy full wonder ally. So that brings us back to the streets of Berkeley. Here's Bernallio again. So the city was doing a reconstruction reconfiguration project. One of our major streets shattuck avenue. If you've ever been to Berkeley Shattuck is one of its main roadways and there's a segment of it that runs right through Berkeley's core. What I love about the location of the street is that it's a block from the University of Block from our downtown train station. So it's very much in the heart of the city. So folks pass by all the time. It is changing or has changed a lot since the twin over the years I have lived here it used to have one of my favorite Indian restaurants. Calbert any house on the corner that corner is to be a fast food place. Then it became a Brioni House and then threatened restaurant but now it's be work building It has one favorite places is A. Coffee Shop de is office buildings right now they're building of talent conference center on one of the corners of that street, and it's also going to have some new housing that's coming up in the next few years. So Down in Berkeley is always shifting and changing and trying to keep up. So street that is growing, but it's already white visited by students and others. There was one unusual feature of Shattuck Avenue in this neighborhood though the way that's treat with laid out split one st into because they used to be a train station right in the center of downtown and it's cost sort of this little island develop that used to be shattered place. So to paint a picture, there's northbound shot on the east side of the block and a southbound show on the west side of the block. No matter which side of the block year on or which we are Shopper Cafe or office was facing technically you're still on Shattuck Avenue you can imagine the frustration trying to figure out which one you needed to be on, and it was very confusing in trump's away finding and a lot of the businesses in the downtown business association wanted to get a new name for this to block separate make it easy for people to navigate the city and to find that street. So since the city was reworking the street anyway, they opened it up to the public to weigh in on giving it a new. Name and this was a big deal since opportunities to rename Berkeley streets were rare. This is probably first time. It's happened at Berkeley since renamed district after Martin Luther King, and that was a few decades ago renaming streets is quite expensive. So this doesn't happen that often Bernales, and the Berkeley South Asian radical history walking tour has spent so much time sharing histories of the town the on told this was a chance for them to reshape how those histories or seen because we'd been doing the tour for. So Long V, navigate the city and see the city in a very different way our impression of. That it's a city that's rich with South Asian history that when we turn go two blocks, you know there were like speak laborers that were living down the street from where we live now but there are no physical markers that show that to anybody else in our community. So at the street naming became an opportunity to illuminate one hundred plus year old history the thought a lot about the kind of person they wanted to advocate for. For us, it was very important that it be Asian American because there hadn't been any street names that are after Asian Americans in a city that is twenty percent. Asian. American, but I think for us, we were also trying to pick a name that would lead us tell a larger story of asian-americans here in the city of Berkley a story that could signal that we've been here for over one hundred years because for too many people. Be. Looked like we came here only after the sixties or seventies or even like the nineteenth. So we seem like a very new community and I think people need to know that we've been here a long time and we've contributed and we've also faced racism like so many other immigrant communities in the. US. So they started brainstorming we had a lot of names that we could have recommended including Gobind Behari Lal who was part of the. Party and was the first Asian American Pulitzer Prize. When are we could have talked about that lip sing songs who went to school at UC Berkeley who is the first Asian American Congressman I. Think it was awesome. Orton recognize that genders other than male are not represented on our city streets. So it was important for us that it be somebody's Asian American, and a woman could have talked about Maggie Gee who was an aviator an educator. Be were also excited about other names, Laker, Third Dylan Recruit Yama. On of these folks who for those of us who are activists and organizers are real heroes for us they have considered so many all of these very accomplished his story asian-american figures like the also wanted to elevate the different kinds of unity builder knock somebody. Out there willing political office. But really somebody who like our mothers or grandmothers a really supporting by just being themselves and by having folks table by organizing events that stealthy more about her culture of her home, you know making friends the homeland having a place where new immigrants could come to That kind of community building is also not author honor. So we really wanted to share that. View probably figured out by now who they decided on I think that's the other thing that's exciting. Caliber guys story. She isn't that everyday person just like neat who walks the streets of Berkeley, but she was a rare everyday person for sentences. Early days therefore had obeys specific and significant experience and I think if truly the sense of the search for home the search triple walking and knowing that that was something she came to the US looking for and was made to feel afraid for herself in our family that really stuck with me for Nali. Color Story. Also had a personal significance, the as an immigrant to cheer when I was twenty five and was always conflicted about whether he was home are not when I heard her speaking about that in our oral history it immediately struck something really deep. In my case, it was basically trying to find my own independent identity coming to Berkeley was really but finding that freedom and Berkey general is a liberal city progressive. I felt very much attracted to its radical history. I had heard of those histories even back growing up in Bangalore, which is where I moved here from. But when you actually arrive here, today different experience and somebody like me who came here to be free of all these identities found myself having to describe myself as south-asian it's women as Brown whether I like or not does. That scene that and finding housing reveal is also under the most challenging things that had happened up able to nine, hundred, ninety nine. I don't face the kind of racist attacks at many of our other community members faced and have been told to go home months times, and that strikes something deep in my heart because as I start getting comfortable in the city immediately reminded that at any moment, somebody can make you've completely foreign. And order to immediately resonated with me, and I definitely get resonates with a lot of us try to make ourselves here. So that became really the emotional anchor for me to want to find the whole for caliber guy here a home that she could not make herself a hundred years though it really is about something very personal that immigrants feel often with street naming. The city claims Aquinas as their own and in this is it's like, okay, you can tamer. But with that, you also have to blame the difficult part and by telling the story, you want to remind people that you need to make place for people who are coming here facing all kinds of oppression wanting to make Berkeley they're wanting to contribute to the city. People when they come to a city council meeting and they say that know we've lived here for generations. Therefore, our voice is more important. What I'm talking about is a lot of older white community members who claim a right to the city that they know that not everybody had the opportunity to live here that long it needs to be acknowledged that even if you're somebody's only lived here a few years, you can still have a voice in that city near hoping that by noting Guy Story. We can push back onto the narrative that just because you live here, longer thousand dollars a year rates helped you that. Make people want to live here. Sense, belonging and investment in the city and the future of the city. So with her team on guy got to work organizing their campaign, bet a long road ahead of them though they started taking a names at October of twenty, nine teen, the city process itself was set up to be quite extensive. It's been quite interesting. To go through all of the steps that they had set up and I remember coming home to under van and saying, do we really want to do this? It's going to take a lot of effort and it's not clear if we can make it through. But we also knew that this is a rare opportunity, and if we did not have an organized campaign than a South Asian name or Asian, American name would not organically appear on a finalist. They knew they were going to need a lot of friends and supporters on their side. Luckily. Burnell Ian von had plenty of people that were eager to help through doing working tour. We have definitely connected with a lot of folks who are bae excited and interested in learning about her story in the bay area. So that was helpful in US being able to reach out to our community members and ask them for their advocacy and support of. Caliber guy to write city council members to nominate Gulliver guy because support from a wide range of allies and organizations including USF professor, Monisha Package, the South Asian American Digital Archive, the Alliance of south. Asians taking action and Asian and Pacific Islander Americans in historic preservation. Other than that. There were multiple members you know young people students game game s defied at various meetings speaking about why this eating sorta them. Bernales team also reached to run the guy for her blessing and using her grandmother's name here's running again last October the hear about the street naming opportunity shouldn't they contact me to ask for my blessing to support caliber guys name. My first reaction was just well, of course I'm going to support it. Yes I give my blessing. Absolutely but no way it's going to happen. My? Grandmother. It's impossible. It just seemed to take off which may XLII Ronnie ended up reading an opinion piece for the Berkeley. New Site Berkeley side sharing her grandmother story and supporting the campaign will share a link to it on our website when it cames renaming part of the city though there was one more group of people that are Nollie. Inner team wanted to ask for support I? Think for it is important to differentiate. Definitely you know who are original inhabitants of the land and to definitely get the blessing of indigenous folks to make sure that they were not interested in. The street name, the way you were. So we reached out to Corinna Gould. Who is the tribal chair of the Leshan Alani? There are many indigenous tribes in this area, but she's the one who know off as the most active in the Berkeley community. But I think what was moving for us is that she recognized that there were people coming here who are facing oppression and that they also should be welcomed and acknowledged yeah. There was no way without confident moving this forward without knowing that the had the best thing carina cooled representing the confederated villages of Aleutian. Also. wrote a letter and support. Lead for you something from that letter, it says when the opportunity to participate in the Shattuck Avenue name change game up the tribe who'll heartedly supported the name change to caliber Guy Way. Because we want to acknowledge that there have been and continue to be people who come to our territory who have faced in resisted oppression and who story should be lifted up and remembered. The History of caliber guy might not be told are acknowledged. He didn't offer this opportunity. It is our responsibility as the host of our territory to lift up the work of others who are doing good work here in the East Bay and that the book is traditional protocol to come together in support of the name change to honor Fella Guy who traveled to our territory at a time own tribe being oppressed and found herself in our lands freshness. And yet committed to creating positive change. I always tear up when I read that. Because I also see it as Of Our community and I know that our unity have a lot of work to do. In acknowledging settler colonialism in finding ways ambitious to be in solidarity in support of Indigenous People with all these folks behind them, they waged their campaign and powered through the selection process e participated in good faith showed up at every meeting bespoke. At every meeting, we wrote opposite Eurotrash Council numbers. V had conversations with constant members and educate them about caliber guys story why was important to our community? Eight. Sure that he had a looney support, we made sure that the family was okay with doing this, we made sure that the advocated all of the people of Color on the list not just for Alaba guy but even with a coalition of support, he still had an uphill journey convincing others of gullies historical significance. Or? Two hundred plus old history of citations in Berkeley, and that was also the challenge. It's very easy for somebody to get a street named after mlk or after Julia Morgan who's a very well known architect those names people understand immediately and identify with. So for US suggests somebody who's not very well known who has a limited connection to Berkeley and who from one hundred plus years ago was difficult. You know get set ourselves up Louis or sharing and additives that doesn't fit a traditional. In Berkeley, the have some history organizations that are not official by any means, but that have just been here a long time. Who have built sort of a claim that the city and those organizations snow very little nabet salvation history, the history of all communities of color. So we knew that it would be very difficult to get their support. Their Bay focused on building survey focused on white people and their histories, and those histories are also mostly landowners to their streets are named after Danvers. Their buildings are named after landowners donors. So the stories of like everyday people also don't talk streets are not documented in a way that white folks consider in or. So. Be Able to say that look she says this in oral history bad enough stress would be a challenge. They are judged by the same standards even though he did not have access to the resources that those communities had to preserve history but he felt that was the most honest way that we could approach this naming bake knowledge in all of those facets of it being a woman or if it's a different kind of community builder and offer being somebody who had come here a hundred plus years ago, and of course, there were the sort of people who are regulars. At Berkeley City meetings who felt a certain kind of ownership in that space I remember us being at a public works commission meeting where we had about ten to twelve people who did speak in support of a guy, and we had one person there from historical society whose family had lived in Berkeley for generations. He had written a book about Berkeley streets and he was very interested in the street being called old station road and not being named after person and that was fine. But the way you talk to be, he basically said Oh, I feel like I'm the minority. And that really trouble because our community doesn't engage in city process because they don't feed the sense of being and we've been here for Organiz people feel empowered to feel that their voice mattered to feel that if they came and testified that it would make a difference and because of community showed up to one meeting this person who had been sort of the holder of the Berkeley history narrative. Suddenly, felt like they were a minority, he ended their voices being silenced somewhere. So we still have a long way to go in making people understand that the history that you off is important to you is not the only history a city. In fact, we have a complex history it needs to be more inclusive. It's much richer than we think it's not surprising that we think and I think the. City could really benefit from acknowledging that, but they stuck to it and got Garoppolo guy on the list of names. Now, they just had to carry through and see if she'd make it to the finish line in January. They had a meeting of the Naming Action Committee that narrow down almost two thousand names that they'd received been edited down to ten ten days than Mental Public Works Commission. Meeting. narrowed. Those names down to six six names then went for voting to the entire city of Berkley will Dan it went to a city council committee that recommended Caliber Guy Wait Full City Council it took that many steps but finally on September fifteenth, there was one more hurdle to clear Everett. Society. Council committee meeting, and then the full city council meeting now call the role in the consent calendar as omit. Mr Clerk. Council member kissed white. Yes data on consent yes or. Yes, arison. On. Yes when GRAF S Robinson. Eurocity. Yes. And Mayor Arrogant? Yes. Okay motion carries. Okay. The motion carries congratulations. We've now officially renamed Shattuck Avenue East as. A Guy Way. Thank you. You everyone who has worked to make this happen and for all the reasons that were stated, this is a really I think important recognition of our South Asian Community or Asian American community are often overlooked on the contribution say tour city's history. So congratulations. Of course, there's still lots of street construction work yet to be done and most folks still have to stay home during this pandemic. At this very moment, you might not be able to visit and actually seek guy way just yet but Bernales hopes that they can put something physical in that space to commemorate her story I think having some kind of plaque or some kind of sign that tells the story of caliber guy. Connects to the story of the larger mystery in the city of Berkley be really one guy we took become I could see four goal for people into learning about Asian American history in the city of repeat and give people a sense of US having been. Here that long and makes people curious about that his tree and we want to do that making sure that it's clear to people that she is somebody who looks different from who've usually imagine our streets to be named after and that they might just google her name and try to find out who this person is. So don't just done about caliber guy learn about all of the histories that are hidden h in our city that you don't often get to explore. So when it's safe to go see it in person in the words of one of my favorite podcasts, always read the plaque and whatever other informational signs and art they'll have by then and when we start the. Tour it will definitely be a stop on the tour and I'm also hoping that at some point that other historical society and other folks who have not necessarily immediately acknowledged that history will be able to speak to that history as well and that we will be able to do something bigger and tell the full story of South Asian activism here in the City of Berkeley and even beyond having all of those ways to shell story, there's just something both special normalizing having an official street named after an Asian American. It gives our histories and communities a chance to shape the physical landscape. I've spent a lot of time on judge John. ISOS street in Los Angeles and now there'll. Be Gullible Guy way in Berkeley visit to everybody else who's had this long time. It may not be that significant but for us, we're still fighting to be seen to belong these small things take on a larger meaning. So we have to work continuously to make meaning of what we see in our landscape of what we see in our cities and having the signs of clever guy. We gives us an opportunity to do that after learning about the campaign success running shared some of her thoughts to buy including her name on a street sign. It's like we're now welcoming her into the our fabric of our society and the whole American narrative. It's very wonderful wonderful, gesture and I find so touching. I'm glad this is happening now because you know as they say on up in years. I feel like I'm one of the last few to remember her to have this family institutional memory and I can pass on details about her history and provide some of these stories. So that it's not all lost and Berkeley can learn about her, and now they can learn about others white her and I'm so pleased. You know here's really my hope were as far as a legacy. I think about. The present and future immigrant women and families who walked down the street who walked down Shattuck Avenue. Now. They see colors name and they learn who she was. Maybe. They'll feel understood maybe they'll feel less alien. In our maybe they'll even feel welcomed and those who were born here. Whose families have been here, for generations. And they'll walk down that street to. An I hooked. They're reminded to show kindness and hospitality to newcomers and I. I hope that they encourage their children to learn about other cultures in their reminded also maybe most important, never never take your own freedoms and rights for granted. That's what I hope comes out with this that would be the greatest gift of all and I think for color to, and we'll be sure to do our part and sharing those stories and keeping that legacy life. Oh. There's one more little story I wanted include before we close out. How Got Thin Supreme Court case impacted the Guy Family and South Asian Americans across the US. Well, runny had a little more to share about his story after this decision of he applied for citizenship three times actually and he was turned down twice. He got it the third time and he kept it. And the only reason he got the third time finally was allowed veterans of World War One to the citizens even those from India he had served in the US army, and so he got his citizenship, but here's a part of the story. Actually you won't believe my family and I knew buckets sing thinned very well. In fact. He was my godfather and he got married to American woman. They come to La and he becomes kind of a spiritual teacher. Nelson's like I said, the engine community. So tiny, it's not surprising. My my grandparents, my parents connected with him in Los Angeles. His wife and he was Vivian. She was part of the founding club Oggi's of. American lives you with my grandmother in my mother and a couple of other people. So there close my mother and Vivian and they were over at our house all the time. So at one point I guess I had just been born maybe it's just a wet too late fifties. My parents asked him to be godfather to be in my brother. So he he performed the ceremony with us at our home. Remember him very well. He wore this turban. He had this long white beard and he had these piercing blue eyes. And I have to confess I was scared to death of him. I found him very intimidating and I was a little girl and eat US look like every I dunno wizard or villain in my in my curry tales. He had this real penetrating stare and though you know he would smile and he'd speak very gently to me and be friendly. I was just terrified whenever he talked to me I always consider him to be my. Scary Godfather. The weird thing is I don't remember conversations at our home about his dealings with the Supreme Court for years before then and I'm sure they talked about it but I was a little kid and I really had no idea what his significance flies in history. Until Gosh I, was. In my twenties after he died but you know I think my dad must somehow he must somehow dinner aware of this irony of being close friends. With this man Dr thinned who's quits for citizenship affected my grandfather's life and such tragic way. From all I can gather I, don't know that they ever knew each other maybe they did it just they never ever talked about it, and that will always be a mystery to me. It's a really small world sometimes all the more reason to take some time with your grandparents and aunts and uncles and family friends and godparents and ask them about their story. Who knows what histories you'll find out, and once you do please us because sharing those kinds of stories is what we're all about. Thank you to my guests Bernardi Gauche and runny Ba-. Guy. For joining us in today's episode, you can find me on twitter at Berkeley Wally that's b. e. r. k. e., L. E. Y. W. A. L. I Learn more about the Berkeley South Asian radical history walking tour at Berkeley South Asian Dot Org an extra thanks to run guy for providing permission to use caliber guys oral history recording as well as her archival photos. Thanks also to Send Me Malik at the South Asian American digital archive for helping connect me to those archival pieces you can learn more about them at Saad Dot Org. That's S Ada. Dot Org. And special thanks to undermine Chatterjee for introducing me to the story Tasr Ahmed for connecting me to honor. Van and Rama Valerie for reading visual guys letter. asian-american is hosted and produced by me when I. Are Opening Song is we belong by magnetic north and Tionna featuring Chris Jiman-. The song you're hearing with these credits is the children by Chris Jima. nobuko. Miyamoto. And Charlie. Chan. Music. You heard during this episode included music from the album from a good family by the band doctors and engineers. You can visit our site at. Asian Americana Dot Com find us on facebook and follow us on twitter at Asian underscore. Americana. If, you'd like to show he's written reviews on Apple podcasts, and if you really like to show, you can donate by becoming a monthly support on Patriots. Just. Flick the support button on her website even a single dollar a month helps. Asian Americana is a proud founding member of potluck collective of podcasts, featuring voices and stories from the Asian American community. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for more stories of Asian Americana. I. Want to hear more check out this other show from the potluck podcast collective. Brian, did you start as a kid? I sure did did you totally our podcast Saturday school? We don't teach language. We pass along the culture that we do now and that's Asian, American pop culture eight is a journalist and I'm a professor and Film Festival. Programmer. We've lost a lot of Asian American movies and we want you to watch them to some listen to us as we look back at the pioneering films that have led US cheats.
Nick Broomfield, Louise Doughty and Richard King
"<music> hello and welcome to the Monaco Weekly monocle twenty four with the by share and August it was too much hillary on today's show Nick Broomfield the filmmaker will be telling us about his new Leonard Cohen Documentary Marianna and Leonard Dan with the long list for the Booker Prize announced this week. We'll be hearing from author and critic Louise Doughty herself a former judge for the contest Countess about why literary prizes still matter and we'll be speaking to writing Richard came his new book the lock sending explores the relationship between the U._K.'s countryside and the music it helps inspire. That's all coming up plus Monaco's news editor Peter I will be looking ahead to next week's news and enjoy some music to right here on the Monica weekly or monocle twenty four hello. How are you very well? It's been a pretty hot week <hes> steamy steaming no dry. I quite enjoy it. I mean there's some people that hated but to be honest. I think you went to the park as well like to enjoy at least twenty minutes of thirty eight degrees son. I've got a four forty five. I see your shorts are getting ever shorter. Yeah I mean what can I do. I mean time now to look to the week ahead. We've Monaco speeder how exciting you're here so tell us you have three new stories for breath right. <hes> hello chops. Yes I do this week on the news desk. We will have our eyes trained on various rumblings from across the world the first story that will be reporting on kicks off on Monday now. It's a slightly a worrying start to the week as you mentioned or following on from last week because the twenty ninth of July will be twenty nine teens earth overshoot day go on so that is the day in the year when we will supposedly have used up all the resources that the earth's ecosystem can provide and replenish the following year so it's like. We're running on deficit right so we're on fumes now. We used the fumes. We've gone past the fumes. We're into the reserve tank. Okay the next is tank and it presumed his getting earlier and earlier right it is fe last year. It was on August the first some two thousand eighteen August the first and is receiving it's getting earlier and earlier each yea voracious consumption levels continue unchecked. So how are we gonNA Mark This Day pizza well. Obviously it's going to be a day of intense collective morning but what's kind of interesting about this is whether or not we believe the statistics I mean is is the Global Oh footprint network which is a think tank who apparently get their data from the U._N.. So so far so good but it's almost about what it does in the mind of people in a sense it's kind of like you'd the notion of running on a deficit running on fumes. James is hoped to galvanize people into action well. This is exactly right. We've frequently have these milestone certain in London. Within the first couple of weeks of January we encounter the the limit for the air pollution on Oxford Street in a year you know these things are a made up quite quickly and and they are largely symbolic but they do have this kind of quite useful resonance in the mind of the public in terms of just centering these quite important issues than they absolutely. I think there's almost elliptical star article. We could do there somewhere about you know the most frightening images associated associated with all our impending doom. You got an idea for the tiebreaker. Let's move on story cheerier. Perhaps Cherry right somebody say trade talks between the U._S. and China Novak about time all right okay so on Tuesday and Wednesday the latest round of sign a U._S.. Trade talks are scheduled to get underway in Shanghai so trade representative Robert Lighthizer and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin that whipping over to Shanghai Hi to chat with some of their contemporaries over there so there is the intention to end this enduring trade war. I think because actually really is becoming a bit of a slugging match now and it's going on an on and it's kind of WHO's GonNa Blink Link. I the fact that the two sides are actually even talking face to face is quite positive step so this is the first time that they've met face to face between while the U._S.. And China since Presents Donald Trump in Xi Jinping agreed agreed at the g twenty summit in Japan to revive these talks I mean this is you could slugging match and it is starting to feel this is going to be around what fifty of the talks or something like that. It's time to kind of resemble. One of those epic Wimbledon matches that just goes on eighteen hours set point to set point yeah it kind of advantage often advantage but yeah the question is who is federal in this and who has Jovic I mean they should sort it out soon because if he could have serious implications to the world economies of to Ah Yeah yeah absolutely absolutely worrying stuff. Please tell me that you've got high the amass nudist gathering or a Father Christmas Extravaganza something something Peter we've got the Edinburgh fringe festival all this week so thespians will be delighted as the city streets transformed with streak theater troupes traveling thespians poetry something in your time. Peter tells me that you you yourself are not such a fan of the performing arts. I was spurned by the Performing Arts School. I had a budding joy full drama and theatre studies but it was knocked out of me actually when <hes> actually the the theatre burnt down aside tail aside somatic very traumatic indeed what view in Edinburgh by the way. It's quite an I._C._T.. To host the two festival so I think Edinburgh is really interesting because it's almost like every single year somehow ederer fringe festival is politicized in some way one way or another last year we saw the controversy I think it was the Edinburgh Book Book Fair which happens just afterwards whether the question over visas for Brexit because there was the question that many famous authors would not be allowed entry into the U._k.. Say It's kind of interesting to see whether this year it will pass without incident or not pizza. Thank you so much as ever for joining us. You're listening to the monocle weekly in a moment. We'll be hearing from documentary. Nick Broomfield Dongo Way Nick Broomfield is widely regarded as one of the most influential documentary makers working in the last thirty years his Lo fi style often including himself in the narrative of his documentaries echoes in the work of filmmakers like Louisville and Morgan spurlock Broomfield latest film Marianna and Leonard Words of love focuses on the bitter suites tweets and Gears Long Romance Between Songwriter Leonard Cohen and his news Marianna Ellen touching tale. It's given real depth by Broomfield connection to the subject matter he met Marianna on the idyllic Greek island of Idris a young man. I sat down with Nick to learn more more about the film but first here's a clip of what might be the most famous but certain isn't the only Song Leonard wrote for Marianne and for people that kind of begins with the song so long Marianne and which is maybe what people will be most familiar with and ends with the latter that Leonard Cohen Famously wrote to Marianna when she was on her deathbed. Did that kind of provides you with a with a very natural sort of framework for the film. Yes I guess so when I originally thought of doing a film about their relationship will I didn't know that that was that footage of Marianne on her deathbed being read the note I knew about the nose house and it did seem obviously ending or resolution of sorts and I also didn't know that I was going to find that Penny Baker footage which is very much the heart and soul of Marianna. I mean I'm just saying this because I think often people imagined that you have done all this research and you know these things before you start the film but I think particularly making documentaries. It's kind of a bit like a wild west. Show you decide. Decide what you want to make a film about and you then kind of just see what you can get to support that storyline which is why I think in documentary you don't WanNa have to storyline because you might have changed it. Depending on what you find that you actually have you know and there is some incredible footage in the film. There's this amazing bit where Leonard is playing a concert and Jerusalem that I've heard about anecdotally thing either lenny cone fans would have heard him talk about it is this formative moment but then we see him backstage shaving and taking even more L._S._d.. And kind of trying to put himself into shape to do this performance what was the process of sourcing this material like I mean was there a kind of an embarrassment harassment of riches or did you find yourselves kind of those very little material on each Adra because it was before people were obviously people don't have phones and people weren't shooting that kind of film and I was lucky that D._A.. Not a penny Baker kind of US sixty millimeter like most people use their phones. I mean a lot of it is knowing the relevance of material so for example we did the interview with Ron Cornelius who was in Jerusalem and with Leonard and was able to tell the story about the shaving otherwise you just kind of have a scene of someone shaving and you don't really know the relevance of it so a lot of the actual structure of the film came aim from the interviews that we were doing like I think wrongly this also talked about the love in that happened on stage with Leonard because Leonard like to be so close to the audience and he would literally kind have have love end with their clothes on but you know he would exceed the normal bounds of I guess perform a audience participation so you kind of then got a sense of the relevance of what you wanted like we heard about the mental asylum footage which is led would play in mental institutions but it was a gain only when we got the stories about the institution we actually managed to get the material of Leonard playing there and this was the first time the institution it ever allowed to material out that we were really again able to use it in a sort of meaningful info away you of course visited either in the late sixties and struck up a kind of relationship with marina that would turn into an acquaintanceship that lasted for many years. I was mesmerized by the island's beauty and had never before met so many golden sunkissed people of either sex having so much fun together. It felt like anything was possible. Marianne gave me my first acid trip which she said come from a friend. If Leonard's in London Malcolm was this idea of the foam something that kind of came to you when they both passed away and when you were reflecting on your memories of her how did it come together the idea of you a film about them and their relationship really came out of a real actually sort of I suppose shock that they both died. There was so formative in my development I mean I think going going to eat or meeting Marianna and falling head over heels in love with Marianna. The tender age of twenty was a real turning point in my life. You know I was Kinda reading law that time and she convinced maybe I should try and make a film and I ended up changing universities and you know it was it was a time of great change. Change is not always comfortable. Changes also a little traumatic so it was an a big upheaval but I think a very positive one so I was very grateful for that and then when they both died. I thought you know I suppose like anybody else. You always wished you'd had a few more conversations and you'd spent more time and why why are you so caught up in your own little life rather than making more of the people you already know and I just felt I wanted to go back to that period of my life and also reacquaint myself with some of my friends funds from that time that I've sort of a bit lost touch with the island is presented as this place of two halves which is on the one hand kind of amazing artists Utopia sort of mesmerizing that captures people and they find it difficult to leave and at the same time it has this quite intense underbelly with people taking a lot of hallucinogenic drugs people becoming. Maybe a bit burnt-out an really taking a toll on their lives when you were there. was that a sense that that you got from the island long enough. Did you feel this kind of darkness that when I what I was on Easter then I only just thought this is paradise. Return here our live here at some point. It seemed like a wonderful alternative negative lifestyle to the one that I'd grown up with and it seems so simple and so perfect and everyone could run around bath foot there were no cars would just meals and kids could go to the Greek schools and it was just it it seemed it felt like the center of the universe although it was incredibly simple an incredibly beautiful I kind of encouraged my best friend is Richard Vick from school to go there for a holiday. He was a journalists and pretty exhausted and he ended up spending fourteen years there and I would visit him occasionally the intervening years and I noticed you know I think rick was a fairly hard drinker when we college together. At least I never got any any anywhere near as drunk with anybody else but I think the cheap bread senior and the abundance of beautiful women that Troch through they're uh all kinds of added to well. He had a great time there but I think it probably in the long term didn't necessarily do him a fantastic amount of good and he's very reflective in the film about this yeah I think he felt that you needed to kind of undisciplined. which is what Leonard had to really get the best of Adria and not sort of succumb to it like a siren that is kind of beckoning you and into too low you and to sort of rob you of your focus vitality? It's true that all the men knew were dealers. WHO said they were through with dealing every time you gave them shelter? I know that kind of man it's hard to hold the hand of anyone who's reaching for the sky. Just is to surrender Leonard had this focus as you say and seemed to have this kind of charisma the truest sense of the word it was very beguiling comes out in the film and he seems to be a lot of people I wonder if if you feel that he he become Marianne and if he was conscious of this ability in and was also careful to use it well or if he didn't always use it well I didn't really feel I was in judgment on this film at aw so most of the descriptions of most of the definitions are supplied by Marianne Leonard Really I mean obviously there's a few other people throwing some comments but I think Leonard Tokes very truthfully about his sexual proclivities and what he got up to and I don't know whether I would add whether you use well no it's just who he was and he certainly used it all well in his work. I think you know I think he was extremely honest about who he was and I think that's what made his works so strong but I didn't really I feel as a filmmaker. It was my job to kind of cost judgment on him or I think we live in a very judgmental time with things seen in very black and. Way And I think the film is full of shades of gray and the lots of textures and contradictions as there. Are you know I think we kind of it's very tempting to oversimplify everything to the point where no longer makes any real sense. How did you a sense of these two individuals change from how you've known them versus kind of assimilating this information that was in the public sphere and researching in through friends? How did you come? Did you come to see them as in any way different than than the impression you'd help before why I think their relationship was fairly complicated as with most relationships I think the sort of balance of power <hes> shifted from one to the other one of the things making films you spend a year or year and a half thinking incredibly intensely about somebody so you realize lots and lots of things that you wouldn't have realized before I think you know Marianna was very self. effacing very humble never really appreciate the amazing talent that she had which was kind of spotting the real talent in other people and their greatness witness and honing in on that talent and encouraging them to exploit that which I guess she did with Leonard and his music encouraging a lot of other musicians to write their own songs for the first time encouraging me to take shake-up filmmaking but I think she was very tough on herself and she always felt that she needed a very specific talent like being a writer or a painter or something in a sense of talent was very different from <hes> a great record producer like Rick Rubin who makes countless millions encouraging various artists to follow particular path or particular line and I guess at that time it wouldn't difficult to make money from her talent and I think in this time that we live in is very easy for people to be judgmental because everything is about money or people munch rising rising their talents. The term of Muse which is a very eighteenth century tone doesn't really reflect. I think true talent. I think people probably knew Leonard a a lot better that was written on him and he obviously wrote a lot about himself. I guess you know the disciplined Huma all those kinds of sides of him and I think his you know he was very generous to a lot of people which is something I think that he didn't bandy about but I met a lot of people who would benefit from his generosity and in their lives broadly when you engaged with a subject like this or like only one or so like cut cobaine according love when you set out to make these films would you want from the process beyond a strong documentary there nothing specific night that at all other than being interested myself you never really know. I never knew what my relationship with animals is going to be like. I don't think you go into making film for that reason. I think you you go in because it's it's a voyage of discovery and it's an adventure because you're interested you know a bunch of all like being an explorer. I think than you never know what you're going to find it. <music> and Nick Broomfield. They're speaking to you and Knicks new feel. Marina landed words of love is out now. It's time for a tune of course it can only be one thing here's the Great Leonard Cohen with Hey box. No Way to say goodbye love in the mall kisses the all <music> the pillow like a sleepy goal. Many love Danette Ed Cohen there from nine hundred sixty seven with hey. That's no way to say goodbye. You're listening to the Monaco weekly or monocle twenty four the nominations for the Booker Prize fries renounced this week. The prize for fiction writers is seen as an almost assured fast track to literature top table and also provides a substantial paycheck for the winning author. This list is dominated by big names including Salmon Rushdie and Margaret Atwood and and also some more recent emerging talent such as Max Porter author Louise Doughty has published nine novels including the upcoming platform seven and the bestseller apple tree yard which has been adapted for television and she's also being passed judge for the Booker Prize is itself a little earlier. She joined Monaco's Georgina Godwin to discuss the prize and they began by talking about how you become a judge for the booker in the first place well. I don't know I don't know why I was asked. I was very flattered to be asked I had to say it. It was true in sadly no longer with us. He used to run the prize who sidled up to me at a party and said Louise. You're saving me an email. I'm glad I bumped into you and then set in a rather loud boom voice would let you to be a book a judge. Don't tell anyone will you. I think what was most extraordinary about that experience for me. Actually will was how popular I became a lot of people said hello to me very brightly and very friendly but also the way I would be. He followed ran parties or latrine spy diarist sort of hovering at my elbow waiting to see if I let something slip and the day that the shortlist came out we announced it at a big very glossy man group building within the sponsors and I was sort of whisked out of the foyer before any of the journalists could hear me taken upstairs big press conference and we announced the shortlist and journalists sort of rushed melodramatically for the door to file pieces. It was one of the first experiences where anything bookish I'd been involved in crossover from the literary world onto the news pages for instance. Salman Rushdie had been on a long list but we didn't shortlist him and I saw a headline in. I think it was the New York Times. which is something like book a judge's Snub Rushdie as I we didn't we didn't snap him? We just liked his book not enough to put on the show. This is the press coverage of it was it was quite something so the processes you you whittle it down to the book a dozen which is thirteen and then to another six and then of course the the final winner. How does that work though in practice well? The chair of judges in my year was Michael. Portillo there's a good reason why they often have politicians. I think two chairs that they're very good at charing. He was very well organized. We had a series of meetings throughout the year where <hes> we discussed whatever book we felt like discussing there wasn't much agenda we were all reading all of the books and then before the longlist meeting he invited us all to send him a list of our top ten independently friendly without any consultation with the other just our ten favorite books that we would really like on the longlist great every single one of them well of the ten yes of every single entry. I'd read enough of every single book to know whether others contend. Let's put it that way but obviously when you've got one hundred thirty to read if after fifty or one hundred pages you'll thinking there's no chance this is going to be in the top thirteen then. You've got better things to do frankly but what was interesting was when Michael Portillo got that list. He did a spreadsheet and the one nine books where three four or five judges or wanted them on the longlist which is amazing if you think that although we'd had a series of meetings and lots of chat we haven't consulted each other about our top ten and the one nine books where a majority of judges were behind them so he said right. I proposed that those nine are all going to go on A. Long straight away and that actually meant we only had four places than to fill and we look to the books that had two votes out to the five judges we talked about you know if there were any any of us particularly objected to so it was actually a very clever way of doing it. I think each judges can do it his or her own way but it meant that the majority of our long list there was a great deal of unanimity over whittling it down was the hard thing I have to say and how did you do that well. We just had a meeting. We had a shortlist meeting and there were certain books that hopped onto the shortlist pretty readily and then again it was a matter of arguing over the remaining places so I think by the time it came to the final meeting we we're all pretty clear which two or three books were really up there and we did get it down to two fairly readily and then there was a lot of R._G.. Body there was a very close runner up what was interesting. I think how passionately we all felt we had a lot of very serious very honest very passionate discussion not only about the individual novels but about what what is fiction for what is the nature of art. Tell us truth to show beauty. Does it have to do both to be great art. It was really very rewarding experience and something I feel very privileged to have done as a writer yourself. Presumably you knew a lot of the author's too and I'm not asking if that influence you in in terms of I want to do my friend a favor but knowing the character of the writer did that have any bearing no not at all what was really interesting is how quickly once you started a novel all those other considerations fell away and yes obviously the books come in printed form the name of the authors on the jacket. Some you know some you don't know but the minute you start a book. I just found it was all about the pros he was all about the writing in there and just I other considerations didn't really figure a tool and obviously I can't speak for my fellow judges but I think they probably felt pretty much the same way our arguments all about the quality of people's pros and we we didn't take anything nothing else into consideration and once you've read a book a few times which you must have done by the time it got down to the winner does story cease to become important because of course you know the plot by them you do and certainly if there were any surprises in the plot. Obviously the third Tom you read it. It's not a surprise anymore. I think a lot of what it comes down to that. Stage is an acknowledgement that when you're down to the last six or even when you're down to the last team personal preference doc plays a huge part and I don't a lot of other prizes now as well and I would say this quite a strong rule of thumb which is in any given prize this roughly the top quarter that I feel I could defend purely in terms of quality. There's a top quarter of books that go guess what I'm a potential prize winner and narrowing down to the top quarter is quite easy. The others fall away pretty rapidly but once you've got that top quarter water it's very very hard because at that stage the books are roughly level pegging. You know it depends what sort of book you like where you might like one. The other and personal preference really comes into it and the great thing about judging the Booker Prize is it did kill me of any delusions about ever winning. One of those big prizes myself because I realized what you want to know I think is northridge was I in that top quarter. was I considered because that's about the quality once you there. It's all of the personal preference of the individual judges on the panel and there's no way you can predict that and there's no way you'll publish it can either so I mean the same books could go up against two different juries and get completely absolutely the The book Jerry changes every year ah most prized panels do and every single year with the previous year cetera judges or the next year's you'd get completely different results so I think learning to be philosophical about prizes as a really important part of being a writer and finally what does does it mean not just for the for the right but also for the publisher I mean I know small small Indie so for instance cannon gate absolutely rocketed once life of Pi were absolutely yes and I think that's very very true and I think you're aware of it is a judge because as you do know that you all anointing somebody if you give them the man Booker Prize you probably turning them into a millionaire and you are changing the entire course of their career and of course the corollary of that is you're not anointing the people you don't give it to so it's it's a very very serious business. I think there is an interesting debate to be had about really what is like for novelist. I think because you know it can make so much difference. I mean for many novelists it can make the difference between the next book being published or not winning a prize or even being shortlisted can be a career rescuing event and not getting it can be a career ending event so people tend to slightly take the Mickey out of novelist yearning for prizes arises but it's hard. It's a difficult business. We do live in a winner-takes-all culture and there are plenty of novelists to mid career have just drifted away because the books have not been successful. They've not been recognized and they can't get published anymore and surprise can stop that process in its tracks so I think this quite an interesting debate to be had about how we have a more pluralistic culture because it does tend to be the same names again and again once you've achieved a certain status as has the right to Maggie Gee said a novelist win more prizes. Their name comes easily to everybody's lips they win more prizes. This doesn't prove they are good mealy successful and that's an inevitable result but what's the alternative you know prizes as such an important part of promoting books to the wider public. I think that the the goods they do in the publicity they gonNA and the press coverage that got to outweigh the difficulties it causes for US cannon cannon fodder at the other end of the process slugging away unrewarded folks Lewis doughty. They're speaking to Georgina go to an undue. Keep an eye out for Louise's book platform seven arriving later this August you're listening to the Monaco Wiki. Get ready to take a tour of the most vibrant thriving altogether lovable cities around the world in Monaco's bumper. July August issue. I start by annual quality of life survey ranked the top twenty five most livable cities from Amsterdam deserve. We have a new you win this year. How did you see wreck onto the business session? Where we take a look at the best locations to set up shop as visits to Porto Thessaloniki and Barry Show you needn't pay more to live better then we prime you for coach holiday with our summer mount one hundred and essential list of gallery to go to books to buy cinema ellsworth seeing and choose to tune into as temperatures spike on the design pages we get playful in our report on the importance of pox whereas our inventory is dedicated vacate to six urban waterway focus itineraries? Finally we sit down with Pierre Hardy. 'em As creative director of the where to us but we've reached peak sneaker Monaco's July August issue is out now. Get your copy today. ALL SUBSCRIBE BRONCO DOT COM author Richard Kings books have included how soon is now which charted the history of the independent music scene in the U._k.. And original rockers which celebrated the influence of record stores. We've you know cities and beyond now the rights who's lived in rural Wales for over twenty years returns with the lark ascending the music of the British landscape. It's a loose and exploratory ramble through the last century British Composers Cherry picking notable pieces is that have either caught the spirit of the countryside or simply capture the public's imagination by dreaming of it Monocle Stone Hall recently spoke to reach at king he begins things in the early twentieth century and Rafe von Williams piece the lark ascending from which his book takes its name Locker sending was begun shortly before the outbreak of the first World War and completed and premiered two or three years after after the end of the war and it's a very elegiac piece of music. It's a piece of music is incredibly popular but also quite mysterious. It's a piece of music that seems to symbolize sense of yearning a sense of inhabiting sort of purchase equivalent the Eden and it's innocent landscape as well but it's a landscape that can only exist in the listener and the composers imagination. There's no distinct location and I think that was what was really interesting to me. Was the idea that this piece of music that symbolizes our relationship to the countryside could be so popular but we really know where this place is so I wanted to sort of wonder through the century trying to find pieces of music that had a similar effect on the consciousness as the lark ascending and some of these pieces of music like the locker sending a set in place in the imagination but I thought by by delving into our relationship with the country so I could reveal quite a bit about who we are. It's quite interesting. I think actually what you've picked up there with just the actual piece itself because I was just widely thinking just a couple of weeks ago about this piece of music because I heard it and I love that obviously like everyone loves. It and I was just so I had in my book. I know that it's massive if I know that it's incredibly well known but then when I was reading your book and U._S. or just reading off these facts like you know it's the most requested someone desert island day so people's funerals and stuff to me like oh I kind of just thought it was mine Gary Yeah I knew that it was incredibly evocative of diverse landscape and the British nation in some way I also somehow just Ernie our new. It was really strange. Well I think that's that's testimony to the success of as a composition and I think that's possibly what reform Williams had the mind that it was both intensely personal but very much belonging to all of us so you know I was more interested in other nature what is Nature Harris Nature wise nature and crucially in our culture culture and in our country who doesn't to whom does nature belong to so. I knew it was going to be a book about rights of access rights of way laws trespass and I knew was going to be a book where those laws would come into conflict with things we would like to do in the open air like hedonism parties raves weddings and in some cases protests and I wanted to look at how the book says the landscape is never rose and I just wanted to look our relationship that something that the locker sending articulate so well which is it's not nostalgia. It's not patriotism. Many of us have a deep-seated affinity affinity insensitive belonging to this landscape but it's such a hard thing to achieve other than kind of passing emotional phase of a walk or something like that yeah I mean there's a couple of like may ne'er picked out and obviously I love Rave <unk>. I always kind of saw that as a tension between say just party people and the government whereas really its roots way way back into like the right to ramble and people trying to basically people fighting for access access to the language has been going on for decades. If not hundreds of years you know it was that kind of age old story of of people having to fight to get access to the land something that you wanted to kind of chime with the yes two key moments in the the twentieth century too key laws or incidents of the laws being brought to bear on people being outdoors. I think defined our relationship to the land during the century the first was the kindle Scott Trespass spouse nineteen thirty to eight thirty two when two three hundred young people employed unemployed did what we now think of completely normal activity they went for a walk up in the peak district and and <hes> they came into very very vague almost non eventful conflict with the gamekeeper. I think there's a bit of pushing and shoving and the the leader of the Trespass Benny Rothman ended up receiving a custodial a prison sentence and there was outcry because trespass which he received the sentence was not a criminal offense. The sign trespassers will be prosecuted is almost a structure of feeling basically says if we find you trespassing. We'll find a way to punish anyway. The outcry over can discount was happening at the same time just before that break of the Second World War when things at the Youth Hostel Association was coming together. The ramblers association was formalized so there was great public momentum phantom towards freeing the landscape for everyone to inhabit into us and obviously wants the Second World War troops to its conclusion. The passing of the National Park and countryside act of nineteen forty nine. I think is a symbolic is a creation of the N._H._S. and of social housing in terms of defect. It had building kind of society in which everyone felt they had agency so what followed after them really was this reinterpretation of the countryside decide which changed again when we joined the Common Market in nineteen seventy four because agriculture received subsidy for the first time but the second key point was sixty years exactly after can discount the castle morten rave and in one thousand nine hundred eighty two when twenty thirty forty thousand people spend a weekend raving on some common land in the Morgan Hill's and such as the outcry that within two years as the criminal justice bill became the Criminal Justice Act. That's always sort of stereotyping caricatured by the phrase Yousef repetitive beats to describe dance music which yeah imagine the poor civil servant to come up with the more significantly included the offense aggravated trespass so the first time the twentieth century in its final decade one thousand nine hundred four trespass became criminal right got sixty a period when the landscape was really up for reinterpretation and let's talk about some of the actual music in the book and there was a law Yukon. Do you jump around from everything from Williams to elbow country. Hey to we've got the Penguin Cafe Orchestra. We've got the rank hearts are in the WHO couldn't cut right that music in the landscape with that the kings of the free in days so talk us through maybe two or three of some of the radioactive pieces that you mashed find literary inspiration more one of the most literary is Stan tracey's composition under millward jesuits. It was his setting of the radio play by doing Thomas and in particular. There's a chain starless and Bible black which I think is is evocative of of an imagine invent scape as the dacas ending. I think I think it's a wonderful evocation of of an imaginary landscape so definitely wanted to write about the I also wanted to write a back to because hundred millwood was was broadcast on the BBC was written for the for the radio and that was the the median by which many people had learned about what was happening in the wall and when it was first broadcast in the early fifties seemed to me of a piece with things like the festival of Britain and the building of the welfare state and Weinstein Tracy's creation of British modern jazz music was in similar sort of form of modernism and one doesn't need to make these comparisons but I think if British music ever had it's kind of blew it would be <hes> Jesse took US three. Maybe while it was on your radio well I knew I wanted wanted to write about Greenham Common and the fact that this is the protest the women's peace camp. I mean after six months. It was decided men welcome so I knew I could only write about it with a relatively. Actively Small Degree Authority as I'm not a woman but then just before the end of his life Vaughan Williams's one of his last books was an anthology of folk music which he compiled with a Loyd the <hes> he's a communist and really wanted to include lots of industrial folksongs black leg minor which in the first wave of music the one led by Cecil sharp a friend of organisms have been very much rural rule very deeply rural folk music or coastal folk music and this this volume which was published in the fifties which when Williamson and Lloyd together and Follow Industrial Songs and former losers very up for inclusion of different types of folk music and I thought well how do you live in a few different decades. I'm sure in his next anthology of folk music he would have included the song sung by the women the green common peace camp as forms of folk music very convinced that what was the music specifically that they were kind of. They made their own folk songs called things like I am a communist spy and as a whole in your fence the American Air Force the American American Air Force and I witness your war crimes but when I visited there to write about the visit in the book I I you know I I was just it was a very gray very cold day. It was mid winter's Day and and the camp was set in one thousand nine hundred eighty one zero and they set up the camp and I thinking of what music what sort of feminists news it was at the time and I realize audie shape the album by raincoats was released just almost simultaneous as time the camp was created and the person who engineered sister was the only person to make a documentary about the cap that was approved of by the occupants and in a there's a line in in the last song audie shape the landscape is alive and I just thought in terms of of description of the energy is at work in the peace camp or to shape really came very close is talk to people I spoke to the thing the factor that really enjoyed for them was what they go co consciousness the idea that people live together for together for peace and survived together and I wanted to pay tribute to the idea and for the book it was significant because this took place on common land and they were sort of almost psychologically taking on the role of communists and in particular by not having any leaders very seemed to me very much a form of replicating some of the ideals of communism their relationship to the and then as the comes more today as you've been speaking about you get into the Rave era and Andrew weatherall bounds like ultra marine I wanted to I mean you you you write so beautifully about the experiences of them having their first rave down in East grinstead and your own experiences as well I've been to par is out in the countryside and I've seen the sun come up. You do suddenly feel very connected feeling to something quite quite sort of a primordial unite like something very natural she he didn't want even aware of the makeup but I just wanted to when you were really having a propagates I in the countries I did you really feel this. You know this lineage of decades hundreds of years or were you thinking about the next three hours. That's a very good question. I definitely remember once going on one of those of daybreak very stupid. Daybreak drives to go and sit on top of Hay Bale Okay and and I remember thinking I wonder who owns this field will affirm that I thought farmers beautiful right so I think maybe I mean I was never a huge raver but I think I think no. I think I you know the time I've been reading romantic literature university so I think I was towards the fluffy side of things up in the mountains we had this ceremony ammonia. Every year we had everyone miles around came cousin and and the kid everyone one of the reasons I wanted to write this book and write about this subject. There was this moment for about fifty years in the middle of the century when the landscape was up for grabs chiefs and it's less up for grabs now than it was then and something like we won't name the names but the the more kind of fine dining boutique festivals very much seemed to me like a a kind of return to some sort of Ed wood idea about how the landscape should be managed it enjoyed. I was going to ask you one final question which was going to be this genius multi-tiered complicated thing where I was GONNA ask about. Do you think there's something in the British psyche about longing something that just isn't there or something that you can't access because you you talk about the locker sending being a song about nowhere but somewhere that we want to be kind of thing <hes> but then actually now I think about it when you've given me a history lesson of this this kind of quite homeless glorious period of fifty sixty years when we had access to the land. Do you think there's something in the British psycho the last eight years of longing for something that is no longer there so that we can no longer get during its kind of manifesting itself in strange you know ideas of nostalgia and things well a one level. I think is homework Ethan that we we have a longing for functioning N._H._S.. In Dade so you could point to hospital you could point to a train or you could point into a failed. It's the same economic reality for all of those things but in terms of the British psyche and we're an island with surrounded by water urban areas and are incredibly dense and much of the topography grefell our country's uninhabited is go far saying wilderness but unless George Bogus is way but we're very small built up island full of empty spaces and we always have been so for us not to at least be curious about where we where we stand in all that where we fit in I think would be would be strange and it's you know how how do we look to people who can articulate our experience of of being outside and being in the landscape to make us understand quite how it works because we're not going to get that information from the landowners themselves so people look to people like Thomas Hardy the turn of the last century to explain real life. Um You know they read the woodland as to understand what these people are doing. In these villages they never knew existed away from the highways and you know it's hard the idea of the green and pleasant land and suggest the state of permanence and fix certainty and that the landscape never changes but it changes all the time and you know it'll change radically all lifetime's and one way of ensuring that we're part of that changes is to be it came there speaking to Paul Hall and Richards Book the Lark ascending the music of the British landscape is out now you are with the Monaco weekly <music> what a lovely show that was excellent show and I really WanNa see the commentary about Leonard Cohen Musset UNMISSABLE I think and we're discussing like I became a fan of Leonard Coin quite late in my life. I should say but I mean he's <unk> such a fantastic. His voice is unique right. I started early. I was into him at sixth form as a kind of emotional romantic teenager and then had a few follow years and rediscovered him when I had my first quarter life crisis at twenty four well. It was a great interview them but you are.
Retrospective of 1-700 via episode 502
"Friends in binary ladies and gentlemen boys and girls is a little time. It's not a little too little time is it'd be a bit of a time to look back at how we got where we are today with this historical episode. They can't is a look at the history of this sleep podcast And the best part is is just like other history lessons you might sleep through this totally cool sleep right. Throw it a history lesson at blake you to sleep through ad lincoln to soup through the history of this podcast. Because i made a sleepy just for us. Thanks and Your new stanford sleep may podcasts. To put should asleep he everybody before we get on here. Sleeping me is built on empathy and compassion. That means a being here for you. There's links to extra resources if you need them right now in the show notes and it means is supporting the members of our community being part of positive change. You could do that. There's links to organizations you can connect with to say black lives matter to say. Stop asian hate right in our show notes. One of those organizations that i've been sporting his beam you could support them using the links in our show notes. Thanks everybody and oh. Here's the sponsors that may be here for a four year for free choice week a everybody's scoots here again. A quick couple. Quick questions for ios ask these like how many episodes asleep sleep with me. Do you listen to a month or a night is it. Four is it. Eight is at twelve so that's question one question two. How much do you play. Pay that mega cable corp or super streaming services. You know every single month and then would you would you give scoots arrays like. Would you give scooter raise compared to what you pay that streaming service or your cable company from zero to five dollars a month or from zero to ten dollars zero to twenty dollars a month anyway scoots. This is a free podcast. It's wacky singer. Say those are the people i'm looking for. If you're in a stable financial position you get value out of the podcast especially considering the stuff you pay for every moment and then yeah are you that one out of every hundred people. That's just wild enough to say. Wait a second. i get what you're saying. I'm gonna give you a raise from zeroed months to ten dollars a month. Because you're worth it. Because i get a lot of the podcast and listen every single nights in some. You might say well when lake. You might be like your tougher boss. I get it. I respect that and you might say well. Come into my off his scooter. Yeah you put me to sleep every single night or four nights a week But what else is in it. And i see okay. Five bucks much yet. Ad free episodes ten and twenty dollars a month. You get bonus. Episodes all intro episodes all night episodes. There is so much in. I don't know are you the kind of boss. It's wild enough to pay for free. Podcast are you. The kinda supervisor is that. So wacky. you'd go remain zero to five or ten dollars a month. Well if you if you answered yes And it's okay if you don't really it's only a small percentage of people that really are that wild so if you are that wild in you're in a position to do so sleep with me podcasts dot com slash patron. You could support to show. You could give value back for the show and he get amazing. Bonus stuff you're part of an amazing community and your rebel. You're so rebellious to pay for free. Podcast that's at sleeping podcast at dot com slash. Patron sleep with me. Podcasts dot com slash p. r. o. n. Is a all right. Everybody sam to talk about helix mattress. That's a big part of my life but it might not be a years. Maybe you you in someone else in your life can't agree and bid time you might not be able to agree on. How much did they snore. Nonstop averse you trying to sleep but maybe both of you could agree that you need. A new mattress is so maybe together. Maybe you're like me say scoots. I'm flying solo. Well you deserve a new bed too. So maybe all of us in need to get over and take the he'll exquisite helix sleep dot com slash sleep. Quiz just takes two minutes to complete matches. Your body type and sleep preferences finds a perfect mattress for both of you with eulex. You're getting a mattress that you know will be perfect for the way you sleep. And everybody's unique. So helix says different mattress models to choose from soft medium firm. Ones a cool you down if you sleep at even a helix plus size mattress for plus sized people. Now i guess he looks dusk. They sleep Warm i tossed attorney super. My side is on my stomach. And i love my helix bed. Look i talked about last month. That was away from it for a little while. And i missed it so much. So if you're looking for a mattress you take to quiz. You order the mattress your match to in the mattress comes right to your door shipped for free. You don't ever have to go to a mattress store dealer. Sales people deal was set up delivery and a range in all that in he looks awesome. But you don't have to take my word for it. He looks was awarded. The number one best overall mattress speak of twenty twenty by g. q. An wired magazine and just go to helix sleep dot com slash sleep. Take dead two minute sleep quiz. And no match you to customize match or so to give you the best sleep your life. They have a ten year warranty. And you get to try it out for one hundred nights risk-free they'll even pick it up for you if you don't love it but you will and he looks is offering up to two hundred dollars off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners at helix sleep dot com slash sleep. That's helix h. E. l. i. x sweeping dot com slash. Sleep for up to two hundred dollars off and two free pillows and then semi your success videos when you did that test when you give them mattress when you get it on box you get it set up. I love hearing about it. Thanks everybody sleep with me. 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The sponsors can find things you along with me. The gun and we're so proud rusty biscuit. Lowest banana does very mr barred amid dear scooter on twitter and instagram. What he say we slowed down and get on with the show a everybody. This is scooter here. Before i say hey. Are you up all night tossing attorney just to give you this as a episode five. Oh to look back at the first. Five hundred episodes of the podcast in heaven listened the whole thing. But i can't believe he made five hundred episodes census up so because i can remember making it because it really pretty sure unless the wrong episode which is just as likely this was like one of the episodes where really what it was like cow. The first one hundred fifty episodes of podcast were really just a big experiments. And then how do mostly to my work schedule in writing during my commute and stuff that the podcast have been formulated. Oh this is what will work as far as The styles of the episodes and then how listener feedback informed that in how we got to where we were then which is pretty pretty much. That was foundation. I mean within edano. Scoot stars in past schuylkill. Talk more about him in. Somehow i've made a really have no. I cannot believe that. I would say if i listened to that episode. I'd say how many episodes you made cincinnati say. Well one hundred one fifty but we've made five hundred more since then so be interesting to see you know. Some things have changed from the beginning to that episode in some things have stayed the same In yet thanks for being here long for the ride. This is the one history lesson. Neil sleep breakthrough so Let me throw to scoot san. Hey are you up all night. Thanks thanks everybody. You all night tossing turning mind racing trouble getting to sleep trouble staying asleep. Welcome this is sleep. Which meet that gas. Put you to sleep. It's been putting some people sleep for over five hundred episodes in case this is your first. I wanted to set the stage. Where i guess it was just like we do as a bedtime story. All's you need to do is get in bed impress way. I'm going to do the rest when we do. Create a safe place. Where you can set aside whatever's been keeping you awake whether it's thoughts Physical physical sensations feelings noises would whatever scheme you wake. It could be any of those things that could be something totally different Whatever it is it like to take your mind off that women would have safe places one and what you feel welcome back yes. It does and work for everybody. I hope it helps you out. They give it a few tries. It's a little bit different. I'm a little bit silly. I've got creaky dulcet. Tones nat to voice of angel. Like a sweet sweet bette midler. Where carole king. I don't even have voice of carol kane if carole cains voice of it. I guess this would be a different podcasts I don't have any of those sweet. Have creaky dulcet tones. So do send my voice across the deep dark night in a minute too late. Tonight will be a little bit different episode. But it'll still be full of meanders. A guess if you're going to use like a pejorative term you say do a lotta yam ring. Though i don't think that's in regular parlance in the us. I don't know about any other countries anymore and it tends to be more aggressive. I don't think him aliki when someone uses a word game or has tends to be aggressive. Let's let's let's agree to do this together because this is an open safe place. Let's take angering back. Let's reclaim repurpose in when not necessarily redefine. Its shape hammering. It said why why's are very pointy. So i'm gonna do here in this academy lake. How the packet mystique that y. Ima bendit a little who gives us some curvature give the y a little curvature even on the edges. I don't know if you can feel me. But i'm sanding the edges of the tips of the wide down and yeah now maybe doing some game or in marang. Maybe i'll just be hamrin in lake. I just read a brief history of seventy seven. Something a bob. Marley was a like a tertiary character in that book. Marlin james And he wrote jamming in began. I guess he and why don't we just caught a cut. Could have it gives us a totally different. You say what is he. Aiming scoots as well is what i do here. It's like i talked too much anna hamid up Salmon m yemen like it was the thing is a past. Lb because they do about the past game about the future in a if we. I did have grouchy neighbor. And they were walking by in east dropping but like the kind east passive aggressive strapping where the podcast recording. the podcast. getting on their nerves. They'd say what did you yam or about in there. And i'd say a man there's no amer and we're just i'm just yamen. I guess like there's jam bands to wonder if there could be like. This could be a new thing. I mean it'd be like a party of one like it always is with me. Bc will scoot. He wrote a bunch of letters to fish. He wanted to turn them into jam band but they said she's i think we're doing fine. You know we get thirteen shows at madison square garden this summer. So i think we're covered in. They said we'll yell. I don't have a bandy largest yam you know i do yam in in the middle of the pack. Cast is so so. It's kind of an explanation if you're new here. That doesn't make any sense which is to how most explanations of the related to this bad. Casco what i was gonna do. I do believe it or not. Aided attended for this to be the quickest opening ever with a gift. Like i might as well keep going when when i get a good thing going. It's sleepy strange in senseless. But we've repurpose to say this is. This is healing. This is why literary healing if leary you know word. He emma word. Healer word repurpose sir. And i know ri. That's will like all these rugged do like dudes that they wear leather coats and stuff to listen. We repurpose redwood from the bottom of the great lakes. All you really they say. What do you do. Nasc- why are we is. It even realize we're in competition with again very intimidated by your repurposing redwood in your leather coat is at repurposing weather. Yes because it's okay if you get a bit of bandera darasing going there. Oh you are. Oh you're tonio. Bandera cisco dozen mind another one of those. Yeah well would. I do repurposing. Sue i will. I don't repurpose yams but i've repurpose gamma rain into yams which is not the same as a yam which is like a speed sweet potato. This is a. This is a repurpose. And i didn't. I didn't have the foresight to make up a whole new word. I just wanted to shorten the camera down. Make it less harsh. Because i think there's something in like fifty sitcoms the They would say to one another. My goal is secre taking repurpose. It review were deuce. I'm also word healer in a no. I don't use mystical energy. Had just use mental scissors. Say just say well. We hammering sounds a little harsh. Let me in and sandpaper. So i sanded at bended it. You know benefit. Oh thank you thank you good. You're correcting my grammar. It gives your healing by words. This is this is really really getting along here anyway. Was trying to make a point before you correctly corrected me. Think appreciated but Then i bend the words Saying to them in an snip them. So i said yam ring. I said more like the am. That sounds nice. I mean. I don't eat yams i mean. Sometimes they do a bit who listeners. Get distracted by the dams because this is a whole new thing built like jam no now jam in the refrigerator lake. Bob marley jam or like you jam. Like what's your jam ami aiming it's like the soft version of hammering exactly so is so smooth. Listen to you. Have you been listening. I've been yam. you have been yam ring. Yeah it's got my yamen in at some point like i usually like to work in some funds like a. Yes i am your mering. It'd be made if they had a shirt that no one would understand but me that explained exactly what i'm doing it say yes. Am yom ring a yam would am even better pun brain accepted. It doesn't make it doesn't make any sense. It's still fun even though it doesn't make any sense sits enough or what's up. It's senseless puns. Here it sleep with me were we will get your yam if you're new here. This is a kenan nonsense. You can expect Every every three times a week in lake of the thing is i'll be. I'll be doing the and you just get a kick back you like l. Take the wise album the edges. Right off those wise in any other were you know. That's the word healing word softening menu. But if i don't know if you buy fabric softener or were you have water softener. i'm your words softener. So maybe you're right. Maybe healing was a little bit to to to like that was maybe too. Much of a proclamation. A do like it. So let's just say lake Lake imbuing ille-. I like to the spirit of healing words but really. I just soften them okay. Silence even from my internal voices so anyway. You're new here. I'm glad you're here is a podcast which you sleep. You don't really have to pay attention. But i'll be here for an hour to keep you company. It's a podcast which asleep but believe it or not so you don't need illegal under no pressure to fall asleep. That's why it's so long so you can just of kick back in like Jew em. i'll be here in the whole reason. I makes this show is. Because i had trouble sleeping a still do in do have lately. It's distracting thing. Just wonder as i've been here talking a putting the wi- to a to the double lamb or single may don't they get to talk to a trademark turney of dale with imaginary one. Of course everyone is. I do that. I just wonder if you were thinking about whatever it is. It's been keeping you up the whole time. Took your mind off of it. So that's all you need to do you. Listen in just fall asleep when you want. You don't need to remember what. Look ideally tomorrow. You'll wake up if you worked with people since bad cast you see you know there would be like an inside joke jalousie. Listen sleep with me last night. I don't remember one person might say and then before in person was eating sweet potato fries. That'd be kind of like a really. I don't know if be a pun. But it would be funny and they'd say think he was talking about. He was talking about yams. I think he's started a yam farm. Would you like sweet potato fry in say they say oh wait i'm still i'm sleeping dreaming this So that's the idea. The podcast is i said pack is for everybody. If you're skeptical they'll give it a few tries. I mean if you're up already and you can't sleep. I just wanna help So it's not an aggressive thing. I hope it helps you like it. Just can't guarantee because lake. I'm weird Be straight lake In i wanna be keep you company but it's not going to put everybody to sleep. Hope it puts you to sleep appreciate your time tonight. We're going to be doing like a run through if kind of like a stoorikhel. Look back at the podcast. They think so. I'm glad you're here appreciates your time. She she's stopping by in a really hope at nine. We do. i hope. I yearn a worked so hard. Because i really wanna help you fall asleep. Thanks our scoots here. It's time to upgrade your apartment. It's time to upgrade your home. But do it the easy go to live. Feather dot com and use promo code sleep and joined the furniture revolution just like music just like movies. Why would you want to own something that you want to change at a regular basis just like the majority of people don't want to be locked into watching the same movie every night. Do you wanna live with the same furniture forever. Because i don't know about you. 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Ama's that you can find on soundcloud and then in some of our story based sort of talked about a little bit about the production of the show in and our year of pat gassing. I can't talk about how much work know takes at least Twenty really it takes a lot of work to make the show. I mean basically you know a lot of work So i've talked about those things in the past. Why don't you just can't run through historic. Because i guess even for me like i don't like a a no part of me knows Because i've been here working like if he didn't let see five hundred plus episodes that represents like I mean like just episodes and at the administrative work like eight nine ten thousand hours of work and then there's all the lake lake I can't believe in made five hundred sorts of podcasts is just a week so he just wanted to run through the episode because so many people are new league. If you make bad gas in your hearing this. And i'm going to do it. Like i said what's a way we could do. It in a lulling soothing. Away that's also like you just hit the tradition of straddles the line between engaging him boring so bill against like a retrospective because they believe me. I'm betting there's gonna be some surprises in here for me. And i don't know if we can do this in one his super long episode or we'll see because in the feed here a very current host. It's five dollars. Five hundred eighty seven things in the feed. Out of five five hundred plus episodes. I don't even know what the other like sixty things in the feeder are always like We'll see so let's run through it And just take a look back at like some of the episode titles and we'll do minh fifty batches of fifty. I guess because that's like the certain now looking at and even though it's fifty one through thirty seven and according to this guess episode one was posted here October eighteenth thirteen seven fifty seven. Pm and the first episode we did was the first episode a thought of but it was like i was like trying to figure out what was the first episode recorded But it was about hauling notes Would i want to think and it was just gonna analyzing that sawing in kind of a goofy silly way very very different than most of our episodes of has a lot of music in and it probably needs to be taken down because it has a people's music but it was early on just an experiment. The original cantona ahead already thought of years lake lake. i think towards lake was The the game drones and After glass slipper in the closest to launching the bag gas was like after the glass slipper which remaining kind of what happened to cinderella after she became queen. And then game of thrones. I think assad of game drones like Almost started like a year and a half before the podcast itself started. Maybe so maybe. June either june of twenty thirteen or june of twenty twelve. June of two thousand thirteen prime makes more sense. Oh and i just didn't have like Just to like caught up in the idea. So let's just run through these episode titles and then we'll do guess let's run through so the first one was about a whole note soon. We have twain c. which was a walking duds. Then rat to the dogs in an episode five was you don't have to like a new dawn or it so those who are based on the tv show who which have always look as watching that show the walking da d. and guests at the time i mean there was no one listened to gas. I think i had like In not gay broke hundred listeners till a broker hun look back. Maybe took me a year. I don't know maybe. And maybe like a fifty ed out so all these early episodes At the time they were coming out just like I was just making him to to get an idea of if i was gonna file on the podcasts. In what was the podcast was going to be. There are a few of those listeners. around but So second episode came out. I mean i don't know when it came out and the internet but got posted october sturdy. His thousand thirteen and i. It'll be interesting. I don't know what the release schedule was baked in with So the first I i was so it was about holdouts and there was four episodes about the walking dead. Abbott does do all had colonel of what yes would become like the walking dead. I was like experimenting with Recaps lake facts facts section. That would be in the future. That game drones stuff in then like a little bit of fan fiction. Or fanciful reimagining parody. Whatever one's legal. I don't know if it's parody or satire but you know that kinda thing then episode six. We had memes strike back. Which was this character. steve. is a famous name or was back. This was november. Tenth twenty thirteen and he i think he was amendment twenty eleven and it was just like I don't remember exactly what it was. I think it was a little bit too I think it was funny. And i think you'll like it wasn't like you mean but it was like i am in an oil leak. This podcast to lake were. I'm not always the foil or institutions or whatever or rich super rich people are the foils and nat even lake villainous characters. I will ask them to be empowered. So i dunno flake. Picking on steve was the best. And i don't know if it was realistic episode in a long time anything. He's from awesome. But i think like since. I'm from syracuse. Like you could relate to the character he just seemed like maybe somebody new then episode. Two seven was another walking dead then episode. Eight was the first after glass slipper episode. So that would be our first serial story and that was important to me. Blake doing a serial story In this was. I think right around so looks like most episodes were coming out once a week and once we got Episode eight We went to a choice a week schedule. An the this this was just a reimagining of like what was a named. Her agatha cinderella's stepmother would she do after cinderella queen. And how she reacts. And this is one of the first story ideas that i had like a leading up to lake who when the pilot guests lak- over the two or three years at a new is going to be like i wanted to make the spat gas but i was still procrastinating about and just because i found that idea interesting i don't know and then also the idea of them serious stories at the time was important to me just because he had like Old time radio was based on cereals. In why wasn't around when old time. Arabia arrows around lake. When people my age like rediscovering it or our parents were telling us about it or we were watching movies. Lake christmas story in. I think my brother. Carl was a big old time radio fan when we were kids or in high school may be college so i just like the idea of these stories so that was like where after glass slipper and you'll see became a thing then episode nine was another walking dead episode called the convenient pirates Then after glas slipper and this is when we moved to a tuesday sunday release schedule looks like and then let's see who had After walking dead than a walking dead north pole chronicles which is just idea. That came out of kim fan fiction. He side of walking dead Then another after go subaru episode thirteen ready in december of two thousand thirteen and So we were going back and forth between glass slipper and walking dead in december. Then i nine. I knew we had the meme than episode. Seventeen the elf. Nobody knew that was her. I like improv story. He think it'll take tablets written in december tenth to twenty thirteen. it has about an elf. you know can it was the forgotten elf in so this ammos rating His watching the walking dead and taking notes in the house writing after go slipper episodes and then so at some point here is not yet though we. We're still in a twice a week. As scheduled in episode nineteen episode. Eighteen is frozen reindeer ears which is North pole chronicles. Then after has slipped her. Then another this was another story. That was a little bit older. i'd written The year rudolph's nose broke aid us. Ed made that story up To to my daughter to sleep That previous summer. And how saco i could use after the podcast. I never started then another north pole chronicles and particularly rush nose broke now in december. Twenty second two thousand thirteen then north bohl chronicles and after glass slipper. So a little break in after glass slipper there That's interesting on december fifteenth. Looks like we moved to a three day. Three day a week schedule somewhere in here i think a a c after glass slipper. Then call me. Canada's wonder call me canada's wonderland maybe that was episode twenty five feels like a more mature episode to be honest and a would it. Sounds like you're listening to it but like there's another one where the seeds were there. It was about to sewing call me. Maybe which i think is The canadian pop star whose name megan don't think it's making trainer but it may be it is meghan trainor. I wanna say it's someone who has a name starts with a k. But they came out. The new year's eve december thirty first twenty thirteen and that was just a like a someone describing what they thought the selling meant said then the varies assistant which was another. Just one off fictional tales and after the glass slipper then. The season premiere get passos january seventh twenty fourteen. And now we're honest three days three day week schedule for sure and this was like this is one of mistakes i made so a key kicked off like get passos because they had that idea for a series then i had another idea for a series of florida project which was based on idea had a story or tv show because Every i wrote a screenplay about a retirement community in it was always lake visit a few retirement communities and it was always curious about the oldest profession in the world in retirement communities in. That would be an interesting tv show. And so i thought okay. What if there's a character going to start the like going to try that in florida. But he's not really cut out to do that. Like be and it was like a game. We had no listeners back so it was very safe to try stuff like this. I tried something like this. Now like It was very. La could you do joking. It wasn't like Encouraging the oldest profession the world tried to be as respectful as they could about it but it was definitely lake lake. A little too edgy. For now i mean just like the walking dead. Who would probably be to like a little bit too out there though. I like to push limits of the podcasts. Otherwise it wouldn't be passable make five hundred episodes if you're not really there's no way to sustain something like this In lake lake and like in the like walking down the middle of the road. You know abbott. My mistake at the time was like so now. We have three serial series throughout europe. S sosa florida project and after glass slipper in all of them were written so i was trying to write an episode in like two days and then perform it which is very hard. Luckily hemi listeners. Like very many so it was like a risk free period in a learned. That lesson like okay can only do one written series a week. There's just not enough time. Even if somehow. I was working on the podcasts. As my job. I don't think like. I could write it just like a teaches takes so much Like anyway it's written anything or tried to. It's like really hard so so we're doing that for a while so it would go get so sta florida project after glass slipper and then get best sosa florida project to after the glass slipper For a little while And it's some point. So this is through january of twenty fourteen and elsie. How many how many how long we lasted Episode thirty eight to thirty nine forty was still this alternating all three episode forty one canadian john's in mexico that was The florida project. I remember that had sewed like ahead trouble writing it or like Enu they at that point house they go. This isn't gonna work As florida project then after less labor then gave best so since february. so now we're like Three years ago episode since these are the forties and then the florida project. Tha ended Right around my birthday in february. Actually yeah and then they tried to do another series who still about -ality guests at our sexuality influence over here say ca gep esso's so they another series which is again something comedic is going to write nad for the podcast. Which was a mistake like. This was a repeat of the mistake with the florida project. Said well how saturday project. I've been thinking about writing. This is another. this is a movie. I was thinking about writing Because at this time february twenty fourteen now still writing screenplays like thinking. Okay like I'm going to work on the spike and mckee writing screenplays and see which one lake a lake i. I don't know like But still having trouble with the half pros at you used to write screenplays in in house in rerating something and this was a project as planning on writing and it was called olympic Sex and it was about two guys in their thirties or forties Who are both divorced in single or ones. That horse may be best friends and they were trying to get into the olympics because they've heard about over loving neko's end in the olympic village and they want to partake in that they want to be olympia. wins So they're trying to those the premise of the movie or the project. It wasn't a move. It was like somebody is going to write today. Didn't rights and i said well this decent primus again again. We had maybe one hundred listeners. So it wasn't like a in early on listeners. The podcasts was much more not adult themed but lake looser. Experimental still is which is in a different way in also have less comfortable so as more likely flashy instead of having like a little more confidence like to be subtle about it. So i can't shame shame myself or anything. It's something i was going to write anyway and so but again it was the same seek. Oh let me try to head this and we'll still do three serial stories this february and we're doing after glass slipper olympic sex and Get back so soon. That only lasted till the end february. And then i said i can't keep doing this So then i switched to just Right like one series. And so then. I said i can't. I can't keep up with this works so at some point a just we just started releasing only After glass slipper episodes. It looks like there's a couple bonus episodes in there and then in march eleven to twenty four teams. The last episode of so fifty five was the last after glass slipper episode. Then we just tried like experimental stuff so Russia verse ukrainian gold medal match the elf. Who listen dream paradox. probiotic says a character. Now there's podcasts. Even listen to it Chris cathartic he has a podcast where they interpret dreams. This was a fraud. Freud houston dream interpreter Then enjoy every sandwich of about warren's yvonne i think Remember a cafe wrote that in the so it's weird how Like i said. I get it out of the house. So i went into the san francisco and road in the when neighborhood was Something coal coal cole valley in a cafe there twenty fourteen then we went to back to get back so Episode sixty and just straight trying to get through get passos social finding what podcasts would be so. It's like three get bess. Oh two weeks so you can see how mistakes in early in the podcast Pay paid off because again. I didn't have a lot of listeners as able to make this mistake of lake Burning out like Doing three serial episodes a week of different cereals or the same ones. Just not sustainable improbably a little heavy on the year you know. So we did that until episode. Seventy and then. Some point lake episode seventy. It was a new feature trending twitter tuesday from sunday and there was april. Fifteen th twenty fourteen and so then it looks like we would do to episodes passos and then one episode of trending twitter tuesday so started to give me a little wiggle room. So then we get to episode seventy five in. Oh yeah here's episode seventy six at those episode causing the most trouble. Wait learn to pour in less than episode. Seventy six says april twenty nine twenty fourteen. No restarts That was like one of the early trending. Twitter episodes sows in new. I'm not. I'm not trained in improv. So is a huge learning curve And still learning curve And that one. I just wasn't feeling it and it had a had a really good episode about Something the goldfish said wanted to be a mermaid or something like that the bunga that wanted to be a mermaid and so that was hard to like This one just wouldn't come together. And i didn't have the experience. Just like ease off the gas pedal. So i even tried restarting. And deleting and there's just no way you can do that and come out with three episodes a week when you're recording. You have to get sound and you have to be willing to release it and you have to have. I mean it's just stuff. I've learned with this podcast. You have to like stay calm and go with the flow like whatever the story swamp gives you. You can have to stay calm and accept it in and out of repack cast is going to be. It just has to be your best. It doesn't have to be perfect to hidden so that was a hard lesson to learn. But i learned it. And i have never forgotten and it's interesting they alerted absa seventy six and again because he's are public these episodes it is like a might be hard to imagine but it's incredibly painful at some level To have something go out. At least today. Internal critic prior to me a guest like it's both sides of that coin so the critic me it's like this is going to be released to the public. This is humiliating and painful. Let the flip side is. There's really not you know the critics really blowing a lot of hot air but there's also another flipside which is like a really estate keeps me motivated to work hard because it is painful recording. If i'm not prepared or lake over thinking or overstressed if it can't be in the moment. I it's painful. And then releasing episodes that The written episodes of haven't done enough rating is painful. That it's a good pain. This is okay. Let's just get this work done. So just who will interesting thing so then oh within this another episode late. May the fourth be with you. Tich where tails and some point would recover. It was like something about star. Wars started work. Its way in for a little while and there were still doing a trending twitter tuesday and then get passos. The belly of the cookie puss Social media maven. Be iraq onto or walking or i walking tour san francisco Snakes and ladders. These were so i really enjoy some of these episodes during tests to save the world cup Two thousand fourteen Lionel messi is coach asleep coach. Casey casom a and then at some point. I decided start game at drones game thrown season for kicked off june. Eighteenth two thousand fourteen episode ninety nine and that would be a fee and other important moment so a lot of support moments happened in our first hundred episode said where like i said. Okay they do the tv show recaps. It uses a different part of my brain. So i won't exhaust all this other creative energy so taking notes in riffing off of notes and stuff like that. It's a different route creative reservoir than improving stories which is a different for creative reservoir for me then writing stories in performing them and all those three reservoirs have enough energy in them to make one episode a week And then it's not easy but it doesn't none of them have enough to make more than one or in the case that they do it takes a lot of work So yeah so that's Yeah i don't know the leverett anymore on that So we started game drones. That was wednesday. June eighteenth twenty. Fourteen simple inter. I hear my brother got married. Them burn the butterflies. First appearance was episode. One hundred and then episode one. A one a still can't believe i've made it to one hundred episodes that was episode. One on one like it was a first recap episode and as a big milestone. it's hard to make may compact. This is really really difficult to ever especially for. Somebody has followed through on a ton of stuff. That was a big accomplishment. One hundred anything. I'd make it there. We made it and then Game of thrones and we have raised versus visit june thirtieth twenty fourteen Then super bowl kicks off at some point at the first episode toastmasters since subaru do. Yeah so So right around here is where we settled in the pace. We would keep up for the history of the podcast right around. One hundred is interesting. So june third a super bowl kicked off in. Then we would go as we've been for four hundred episodes hints and that's what carried us. Uh was this kind of three style. System and again audience for small disseminate given the show was able to grow with the audience. and i think the audience grew because the show grew in quality. And i think this is a turning point for the show like being like okay. Let's we can do these three these three things well once a week This is what's going to work if we're going to keep making this show in these again the really hard decisions behind the package is how am i gonna sustain this because it's not that hard tonight to sit down and recorded episode and it's like a sunday night in Stuff like that but Then just keep it going Is Is where the difficulty lies. Like putting it for me putting out one podcasts episodes. Not that tough but then be like okay. We and we got to do it again tomorrow. Were in when in with day. Job and stuff so This was just really important thing to fall to to discover. So wow did the rate around episode one hundred stuff starting to come together. And we game of thrones and we did goonies musical episode super tall and yeah we just started getting in the groove super superdome game at drones. Sanz not hobben. Napoleon remember that one was good one. It's just weird. It can see myself in berkeley thinking about that episode. Maybe i don't know in around these early episodes too. I was like really Is searching for certainty because audience is small and i think it was like At some point. I stopped caring about growing audience. Ages said well. The listeners will help me grow the audience instead of having to control it myself. I think in these i two hundred fifty or so episodes the first year year and a half a goes like under the illusion that ahead control over the show growing or being successful when really you only have control over the work Like the process and not the results. these are some great episodes. Here's our first real time recipe episode one eighteen so lattice stalwarts came up bernie the butterfly realtime recipes mall. Walking is episode one. Twenty-one a game is thrown so lot of things that would stay with us and other ray episode because asking over relying on. That had to stop myself At some point reyes so popular that it's like. Oh well that's going to be easier again. But i always have to make sure you don't burn anything out or edano a always have to keep in mind now. It's easy for jrue. What's best for the podcast. And what's most sustainable in. That's good because it's expanded my boundaries. One twenty four is pitching. Tim or first pitching. Tim curry episode More game has thrown season for were still unseasoned for another ray episode. So is doing a kind of a ray episode a month back then until a disciplined myself. An-an-and let's see in people that listen to sleep too strange you know like some of these episodes are really good. Season for another season for them would have been the last season. For a game of thrones yeah august twenty third twenty fourteen no swag castillo cow and that was a fun episode. I remember that one allies goofy episodes a lake Then who still in super bowl were episode. One twenty eight Then we say started releasing these nap casts which were the prayers From in the thai time and from and again was like an experiment to see could grow the audience of the podcast which was I really liked the breyer's and tom in In the game thrones episodes again so long i guess part of me wanted to kinda feature that stuff too. Also sometimes i would have extra space on may Hosting plan and at the end of the lake your hosting plan resets in your files get archived on the current lake So why would wanna make sure. He saw that space. Because that's paying for it again. I think at this point. Look at all the expensive coming out of my pack for most of its i mean But it wasn't like it was all doable In august we started Game season one in still on super bowl. And let's see. The words. Serena wants to hear that was a good one lord. Snow games thrown season. One Outlander is skin and willie trending twitter. Tuesday big be little ailey in another episode september. So i think it's definitely leaning in the head hard is it's just like making up the improv episodes. This is really really Now it's more experienced with still not fun. it's like something you always wanna Procrastinate add game thrones vikings for forty niners action movie Let's see whatever. Evans at transylvania twist so we still like again like to theme being seasonally When i can just mckee awake and a kid at heart and watching holiday specials and stuff like that Damon de who sound the backup. He made a song for. The transylvania twist This is one of my favorite episodes. A creature from the black lagoon tells me he's originally from big goon again as just another favorite episode of mine. It was made up. So i don't know i just like Remember making the incident. Wow i really liked that one and so then we're into another milestone for me like these. The two biggest milestones is hundred and hundred fifty. One hundred fifty was a game of thrones One of the ones source and a season one in also to conclusion one forty nemesis conclusion of the sierra series Wasn't the end super dole. Okay i'm mixed up here But yeah one fifty one was like one where i met lady which beautiful detail of lady which beard full title the tale of which name cami. Connie who would become lady which beard and act over twenty two thousand fourteen. Now just a character can never forget Once they met her. It'll be a while. I don't even know how to meet the series about her So we're still doing super bowl. And game of thrones season one spokesperson for hansel and gretel. Rae return so again. A lot of ray sis. Here's one fifty eight sophis- reborn so that was another recap episode. Can you talk a little bit by may struggle with addiction. I think in there and That was november six twenty fourteenth. So that's our one year anniversary ash a think. Tank you back. This really started like being available. A public around november first or similar track to over twenty s and of emperors thirteen. So as a recap episode where bear. I think that was the first one whereas really personal and really tried to be vulnerable in those nat easy but The paid off lake. That where i felt like that was a big risk. Maybe necessary bragging or anything like Whereas really nervous. When i put the episode out i said did i reveal too much about myself but now never looked back. I mean The wave listeners have been made safety net Can never repay you that like the boundaries inside me and outside me that have expanded in. How much have grown pass. Mail imitations because of listeners. Help is Unbelievable thank you Then another episode of relate bjork to love story. That was november eleventh to fourteen so one sixty at then another realtime recipe when this is still really popular pass and tack owes xl. Don john hughes and those only episode one sixty one i would guess it was like two fifty Let's see then we're Reputation another walking episode in november. So yeah we're almost at twenty fifteen here still like pages or something of as in another another Bernie's butterfly episode one. Sixty four. game thrones Me and salonika dino that dreams and silence abso one sixty seven really popular episode fall asleep with snowy woods guided meditation. That's really popular with people. A lot of These nab casts. Were still going than the first thanksgiving day. Parade of code with greg ray. And the gregor walking tour floss thailand heat. Miser was a bowl cut. That was like i. I remember making that episode. Those fun cracking nuts to the nutcracker these steamed trending twitter tuesday then the roberta costs foundational absorbs one of these scientists cold war on santa so pal year at least ahead of time. Where the idea of vertical austat cena Why to santa claus after be male started to like In an idea of a woman named roberta closets you would be the new san somehow sprang out of this story. i don't know exactly how than More games thrones guided. Meditation as a christmas present in somewhere in here a start to hear feedback from people that are still listening to the podcast. They can remember some of these episodes in hearing from listeners. That are still listening So this is at. The show is always grown. Small so a hundred and fifty episodes Right around one fifty was when bobby finger who now. He's risen to podcast greatness in writing greatness. He he's an who weekly anything. He's still writes her jazz abell. But i'm not positive on that but he he was the first person ever to interview me and that was right around one fifty somewhere in here. Yeah and then. I think the second time i was interviewed it was. I don't even know Maybe i don't know i guess like But as just another moment where he was like ok. P this is growing. Unexpectedly slowly been unexpectedly. He in ways rosa. Okay this is going to become something at some point. I would like still. It's still trying to make it work But it's big enough to like this says is big audience now so it's like I know it's going to work now. I mean i just got to figure out how to make it work financially. You know but Back then like Still maybe a couple thousand listeners. I don't know maybe we had thousand listeners. At one fifty maybe nine. Maybe i don't know. I can't remember the statistics but it was like. Is this going to grow enough Illegal or should. I cut it back to be a hobby. A hobby would be once a week or less at once a week. This guess who really tough to do as a hobby even but even back then. I don't think this is going to be a hobby. I think this needs to be three times a week. And i think that it's going to keep going and is just pushing myself You know who like on the late nights in the weekends which is still the case but were on the path Yeah so last royal so then we season two of after the glass slipper starts up at some point in here and she's a can't so he would sit tw- two years ago We're looking at january or the one eighty In can remember these laker. Yesterday i really enjoyed Season to an. I like agatha. This is another big episode for me. One eighty four bathroom lax boys tap and a dance. Contests gazelles about my relationship with dancing. As a kid of alarm or goule is My life with a perm one eighty-seven us in every episode that'd be become a recurring theme Plane ride that was andrea g who still to the show at some point They gave me that idea like Interesting wow so twenty fifteen. dougie skin. Bold disaster dance. That was easy. Lie h. And other person wrote article about dad From touch arcade. He's a good friend of the show. then mother nature's first visit with porto or porto and let's see who after has slipper game of thrones Meditative sleep songs Again i don't know what season a game of thrones ron here. Two or three then olive redcowmn pasta with young guns episode two. Oh two can't believe we had three hundred episodes since this. This really is weird for me. It's like okay. This feels like a hundred years ago and five minutes ago. I recorded that episode. There's a file in here. Just mark disease easy. I don't even know what it is interesting. More after glass. Slipper and game of thrones Taught a two teens and the fifty one. Am remember that episode because of fifty one as the bus. Say all the time Kenya's laptop that was To september twenty fifteen and florida's guided meditation. So is when my mom was in lake stealing stuff with my mom at some point in here in the spring of two thousand fifteen f. Florida sounds Sounds from Here's a thing you recorded by association anywhere march. Thirty first twenty fifteen. That episode came out a record today while waiting for flights. Like with a mike that would never use lake with condenser mic. Just mike's built in my recorder because at this point like everything was bang bang. Bang like so if this subsoil came on a tuesday fried recording on a monday and then just staying up to get it out on a tuesday or recording on a sunday in staying up her getting up really early before work so they've come out against literally finishing the episode's like went and then they would come out and again is still It'd be a little outta get help here with the show. Yeah i remember recording that episode at the airports dallas airport in tampa area. I believe What else do we gets That was two years ago Wow that's f. feels natta. I remember getting food with my brother before. Also is your first website crash or big first. Big website crash Who is it. Dr graham about that. I think he was the first person in i would. Return are actually. He'll leak air Podcasts so before has managing it through the website Rains kashmir that upset came out april. Fish twenty fifteen as baker chief. Not episode for me. I morally safer episode april. Seven two thousand fifteen to twenty and let's see what else keeps me over the That was our first appearance. Wolford bramley and we're still doing after the glass slipper Spackle the elf. As if to say. I think this is the second thing appearance of orange alex a think. Also that was the first time talked about my hobby of listening to knox. Ko in c. k. S april twenty first twenty fifteen to twenty six and then we're winding now and the towards the end of after last slipper because feeling in the pit of your lentils and also season. Five of game of thrones house of black and white as an premier. So maybe this is like the premier Hypnotic sleep is what one episodes titled. It doesn't have a show number anything. Yeah hi spare lease odes season for. That must've been season five What is this one. The cat in the new suit is in a swimsuit. From te'o that's it's a serpent's one may two thousand fifteen pop a mop candy war. There's another episode of area and none of that. I just really liked jazz. Really happy without turned out and the characters and so then. They ended up becoming a two parter Keeper the candy map In i think we needed to because we are we're done with after the glass slipper. We didn't have replacement. And then another pitching tim curry than of realtime recipes. So we this is one of these. Sam says right trying to write a new episode or a new series in mall walking And game of thrones soon nami sofa that was most personal upset of ever done. Those may twenty six twenty fifteen to forty one so still a long time ago rare on. Here's where i started. Where do customer for each episode. Just because i don't know like i hit a another good one Swallowing a pill billed platypus. So now it can hear a ton of people. Lake is so show melissa grown at some point in here because now these episodes they can remember talking to different listeners. about these episodes a little water globule trembling with joy. I know they're so stressed if you're hearing this you're like. Oh yeah oh this is when everybody sent me the tea so to june of fifteen right around episode to fifty that'd be another milestone Cracker of jokes and cocoa spice and prisoner the yellow pajamas and Then a commend bernie gives a commencement address. Was june twenty fifteen. I feel really like yesterday. Curse dragon love story. And now we're getting to a talented this season. Game of thrones in the this is when i used a twenty-fifty june twenty fifth case of indonesian. A thesis they used to see someone sent me Let's see impeach model u n. The feels like it was yesterday. And then our first lady which beard i think is getting ready to kick off Or as a repeat remixing reposting of a trending twitter tuesday one fifty one because we would do lady which weird would kick off in lee. Which is this point. I was taking things at some point along in the last year between two thousand fourteen. Two thousand fifteen. I stopped writing screenplays or rewriting. It don't know exactly when that was. But i said well this is bad gas like it can either do a one thing. Well like i don't have time Like before and after work on the weekends uh especially like you have to write every day. So i think at some point i was writing like we're gonna screenplay in the morning and then the pat guests and as far as like writing time So that changed So lady which were meant a lot to me. Maybe some of these other series because it was like okay. Now this is my full writing. Focus is like breathing life into the characters to meander around lately. I can't tell you how to too terribly serious. They take all the making the show and creating it so then at some point. Ju- june twenty fifth teams when we started metastasis news to sixty and it was otiose as those zapata's metastasis in breaking bad owner. Those episode three language learning in double. Tv rewatch a hole in one in. We're still redoing a lot of What do you call it. A lot of Nap kassar still going Then a for this episode. Get some emails twenty. Joe jr fourth of july parade with ray gregor because there was a lak- sounds from the parade so that was one of them like it wasn't the first Ambient episode i did. But i said okay after these ambient episodes are divisive popular but divisive and then lady which beards episode two in metastasis news. This is one of the package really fell into a groove in a good way like i think that had family grown until they could process Up until like a here can just feel like it because they fell into a nice rhythm workwise process wise. So yeah we're doing Than one the journey to inner ear and that was because of just mcelroy. It's at something nice to me so Do something that was kind of nice for them and breaking bad we're still doing these than Regarding algorithms mic was an you think that was one that might have been Morally another morley safer episode in kazan to seventy s in other morally. Safer breaking bad Snowden so this is still mort morley safer and snowed in then like a girl grilling with president goose. Berry i remember like then Some of these record like this was like the first time or this only the second time. Maybe i was recording away from home. So i remember some of these Episodes it came on august. I was recording Like his cabin leaks cheerio as recording them outside in a screen house again. Like a mazing like When you have a budget lake Still doing everything myself at this point in Lake in there still. I think at some point in here. We did do the t shirts to get new equipment. But i didn't have on road equipment so as like recording into a condenser mic actually blake and in the top of my recorder but outside with the league aged. I made a work. You know when you're a wonderful lessons bad casas chami But then also. Here's when i get nervous because pag was still not even close to sustainable audience wise so i decided to try to make this a sleep show because he said well maybe i should make daytime podcast about sleep And maybe that'll help the podcast row. Because at this point we're in the two hundreds right in. And i realized how much work it was almost the episode. Three hundred and is can't keep doing this. Oh i can't keep lake. There's no don't have a big enough audience and lake him. Working whatever sixty seventy hours a weekend show. His dish into my job would be going to do as a one way in. Guess this another lesson. I had to learn and say okay. Well let me try doing another show to get the audience In would have learned in in all irony was said. Oh a our audiences tied to the college schedule like not. All our listeners are college students or graduate students or high school students or parents of people in school. But i think when you combine all the things that is so when school's out session or audience doesn't grow like the rest of the whenever schools and session our audiences growing This far nikon. So this one. I didn't have enough experience to say. Oh the reason reasons shows that growing because it's summertime So i was trying to wrestle control and force things doing this sleep show and it was fun. It was But it was a force For the wrong reason it wasn't a creative reason. Were and it would teach me another important lesson which was At some point i was cou critically burned out making four shows a week now instead of just three one of which was supposed to be about sleep in. That's pretty ironic when you're making asleep i gas in your negating any so a sydney. So who am i doing. The podcast is going to suffer. And i have this wonderful audience and things are working there just nat sustainable yet can be patient and it will it just said what do i do best. I make the podcast. Simple sleep the best. So let's focus on that in. That scared me serve lake at that point. It became a formal mission statement. I make the podcast to put you to sleep before that. It was What i said but didn't really knows. Mission statements so now any decisions i make with the podcast. He says it's going to help me. Keep making the gas puts people to sleep instead of saying. Is this gonna bring me certainty or nervous. Or i don't know how to say okay. Is it going to help a ski. Making castle puts people sleep. And sometimes you know everybody's happy about those decisions. But that's how i process everything like Oh yeah this partnership will help a scheme. Making a is going to help sire editor or most recent decision isley. Okay the lake with farrell is going to help us. They share goal of Non pay walled archive. so in. that's what i want. That's can help them to pass gas. Sipowicz people sleep or finding new sponsors or smoke some sponsors that have come to the show in the price it. well th. That's a lot of money but the hippocratic like just like and now that won't work So it's like they can help us keep making. Let's the thing that the next episode but continue to make the pat casper's sleep so there's a lesson i learned here august. Twenty two thousand fifteen By making this sleep show that almost ended the whole podcast And it would come. Really things would come out of this. 'cause it's gotta stop doing that in It will lead to meet lake in months later. We'll i now that longer paying postal on my packet and then like in. Maybe in october november and then And then eventually starting patriot which should pay his paid. The editors ever since like the third or fourth month of the patriot and we had enough money to pay the editors and then helped to keep us Were like at some point. I mean know when this comes out fell start taking a small paycheck for the pay from the patriot or that. Yeah so like like october. But it like having a emergency fund. That's it was about to say lake. so snatches like you're just going to pay the editors in and then i'll take the rest it's like okay and then there's an emergency fund So we can pay the editors Because without editing. Help at this point. I don't know you know so it's a ju just like again. It goes through that channel of is. What's going to help us. Civic what's easiest were it's okay what's going to help sustain this show okay. So we're still in lady which beard where episode fifteen amer doing metastasis news. And then we hit another fund thing with Harpsichord dictator emperor. Zoll a lake. This halloween themed series. Is this al wayne of twenty fifteen for a few months with might be ano- teacher and drake and mumble bear and Who said dave dave Dave osborne super. Dave osborne Let's see and then we finished up Weighty which beer than we had to return we did how to break a story emmy which crazy me is. That was three ten like now we're fat. Were over five hundred. I've recorded over five hundred episodes so you tell me that was a year like over a year ago. Two thousand fifteen now twenty seventeen. yeah so then Call me boris. Good with pillows. I can't believe that was over a year ago. We ran a repeat. Then they shiloh booth. Then we're getting ready to kick off. Roberta colossus in roberta's when chris bosa started editing so he was editing. These are they came out so they could. You know we could learn how to do it but than the dickens fair in these colombian report episodes in other thanksgiving day parade with gregory and ray Flaky and light. Santa lakes hourigan cools to under a year. Like a lot of holiday. Themed stuff we this year like we had less of an am always torn of what to do. I guess i like watching how we lake. Alouine christmas in type stuff Let's see then we kickoff. Let's see where we kick off get. So season to protect her own Oakland stone fruit has three forty one. That's another important to that. Episode of burning the butterfly dust motes singularity. That was another good one Selling elements is style. That was the first skip. Esso's of assode explainers catan nachshon. I that was an accident was another one Really happy with the end of that episode. And then we're like under a year so yet a year ago we started the patriotic and started paying lake In the past years been busy busy year. Let's see blame it on the bile interviews spleen than we run through get best s- Robber barons doilies That was in may and other Morally episode ghost belts and then morley would pass away not that long after which is sad adventures in babysitting. That was another pitching episode. I liked that one Who's the dummy ventriloquist's dummy one. That one is a like at some point here soon. We'll have revisiting to that. Mr t. me pretty to that one raid return to go to california adventure was still going through some get best so seven and metastasis news magic. Every friend ru reunion. Those to that one is somewhere along here. is this last year. Yeah like April twenty sixteen. When may passed away it was in syracuse for that real time recipe. Joy a dance edition while that was you late. Well ten months ago. Yeah erie canal museum episode. I recorded on a plane scoots and ran a plane Bird baths 395. That was a high best. Probably still like a very high point for the podcasts artistically. Don't know if we've hit it hit a- that high again at another might be something recent. I've been like pretty happy with the happiest moments that water go leak. Were just like yeah. I love making this podcast So that was the may thirty first. Two thousand sixteen or selling. Get bezos Twenty episodes pool pa- pill pitch for moran s So now we're under a year where we hit four hundred in the subtly early late spring early summer scooter versus messy bore down and were in season six geo not sidekick lover. I don't remember what that one was Mere maze metaphor get best so season finale. Get there's the Six finale ajio. Ot oh missile paused Did we pause Matassa snooze for ten weeks. there's somethin' and he can't remember planning this. Scott catholic aided get so season review. Then a check in and tom in four twelve season. Six recapping o. T. then i took a week. I think i just did week of Recaps of tomen pounces adventures. Just to buy me a week buffer Once he took a week off. I mean it was outta town for two weeks There's always like lake if i'm running. Recaps almost always working Because like this one we have a couple of week buffer just in case something goes wrong with the show or if i wanna take a break but i prefer to keep these muscles in shape still. There's some point where listeners had sent me. A quilt was earlier than the episode started to get released. Like eighty recorded that one of those sorts of while before but i was holding him. I think until get us house was done then. We had our first carole king episode. Which wow. I can remember listening to that. Going to have launch with Blake that makes Half hour intern. Ac- what else Known more so now. We're into last summer trained care. So i'm location now. When i did came on august. I think i did it. made that sowed in may record it whatever. The holiday is in may said labor day or memorial day memorial day thinks sunday memorial day weekend recorded that as in the dream quilt conclusion than canada. Introvert vacation and on a when. I was on vacation but This when the episode came out. I think this would i did. I did like a stretch. I tried to stagger some time off conservatism for the perm recap Leaf losses Olympics opening ceremonies clubs senseless new pilot series episode. Zamin does not nonsense face the first episode august while august eighteenth. That's when the first episode came out and we're still doing metastasis news dame wa. The came out for twenty seven. Can't believe who've made like almost one hundred episodes since then in. We had nuns in space. Half hour intern crossover episode dirt bike. Poets real-time bet assembly dirty. Dowell house. i made for helen's saltzman dirty door. Mad ray caribbean beach resorts Nonsense space lost village. I did that for kfc. most these. i just did to play his told. The person Didn't do it in lake. That's like a the radio station. I fall asleep to my life with a perm carole king. Crossover nonesense space. Eight and ramon has fifty episodes bernie the butterfly debating with me by geese nuns in space of giant show. In when i was going on harman town. I was pretty nervous about that. They did that episode about Using dance arm story structure for feeling nothing And other day mewa one gray pumpkin review. Sylvan beach stroll elected ahead episode nuns opinions knack controversy. Dirty sweater dance burbank. Hollywood piano that that was on location from a hotel room Kissed you re universal studios and then christmas and then the holiday stuff christmas tree. That took a walk. That was a pretty good episode. It turned out well may replay like a thanksgiving day replay recap warren hardee's march of wooden soldiers. Realtime stuffing and mashed potatoes christmas story tale of the tape. That was fun. Wanna make to Than the dickens sarab odes that was those little bit tougher her and then T t g kicked off january. See an our this year. January ritual first twenty. Seventeen four seventy nine dr mark in got brain by an entertainer of the year january third. Twenty seventeen for eighty. An engine space was coming to a close and far point than tesla haircut and a review of nonsense space and then super dose stories kicked off. And i mean that pretty much brings us back to where we are and again. You know a dank you so much for listening spike gas. I mean i think that was a pretty sleepy walk down memory lane mud Yeah i mean that's just Lake make sausage us going back there. So thank you so much couldn't do if you weren't listening in sleeping to the podcasts. I wouldn't make it. It didn't help people You know it would cut it back or something or wouldn't be what it is today the evolution of the podcast because of you in Things they keep it going is because of you. The listener and respect treasure the relationship. I have with the whole view and so humbled that you listen sleep tour or something that i make. Thank you so much and good. I thank everybody who run you to mackenzie. Thanks and good night paying Hank you and good night mark. Thanks good night bird gaming. Thank you and good night. Still thank you in a nj. Dj ninja thinking in a I am laying sing and a nikki. Thank you troy. Thanks in getting a peer impure e. Oh thank you and goodnight. I he'll isla isla thanks Fallen angel thanks in a lola. Thank ewing in a Shono things why hin. Thanks in night gaming. Thanks ignite j. joe. Thanks your real loss reality. Thanks nice sleepy. Thanks good night. It's just sheriff. Thanks and so. Thanks everybody in youtube in over and twitter on anka jennifer l. Thanks senior night tammy with an eye. Thanks and good night. Julie f writer thanksgiving day becky texas. Thanks good night lucy. Creative egeli psych. Thanks and good night Lisbeth each thank you tonight. Thank you and good night. thanks a out. Couldn't romolo the singin bac- billick bassey buick. Babs be like a friend's thanks. Good night nicole dancing and night Hailed ing singin night. Mike firm and night ellison. He thinks seeing a of elry thinking deny as berry. They ain't you. Ain't gonna johnny t misconduct. Thank you Blue bug thanking a new tohvi. Thank you and goodnight. Jennifer be doing can ni- megan be thank you and good a rogue p thank you andrea g. Thank you and goodnight maggie. Gee thanks seeing elena. Thanks good night on. Wanna wake up though. Sally w thank you and good name lauren aspects and good night. Megan comments thank you and good night. Le'veon viana thank. you care. yes. Thanks a meal thanking nice amila. Thank you tear a thank you and good night. Elizabeth h thank you and a. What fishy fishy that. I'm saying good night to michigan. Thank you and good night. Ailsa neff thank you and good night. Rainy him the tonight road moulder ken. Thanks a fin. Thank you in a c- curious some sane again the young thanks and good night extra crispy. Anything singin night Sammy m thank you and goodnight missy. A thank you and good night g. Thank you and good night. Woke j. t. Thank you read fink. Thanks good night. Dick's to the bullets. It's thanks and miranda thanks to name kerry with an eye thanks romani. They doing good night. I think my mom liked one of my tweets and mom. Thanks and good night. Jamie m thank you and good night saffron girl thank you and good ryan w singin and Thanks you can t. Thanks cherish chairs tonight. You all have thanks and good night. Everybody all right. Everybody sleep with me is sponsored by better help online therapy in. May's mental health awareness month and throughout june. Sleep with me as proud to join the cause of de stigmatizing therapy if you've been struggling with relationships are having difficulty sleeping meeting your goals if you've been feeling anxious or stressed better health counselors can listen and help better helpful says your needs and match you with your own licensed professional. You could start communicating and under forty eight hours. It's not a crisis line. it's not sell. Its professional counseling done. Securely online and better helps therapists have a broad range of expertise that may not be locally available in your area. The services available for clients worldwide owes. You need to do is log into your account anytime. send a message to your counselor. It's super easy to schedule. Weekly video phone or even live chat sessions in better health is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches so they can make it easy in free to change counselors if needed. It's more affordable than traditional offline. Counseling and financial aid is available in so many people have been using better help is that they've been recruiting additional counselors all fifty states and again. I'm someone that utilizes syrupy with a licensed. Therapist is huge part of my ability to be here to make the podcast to live my life and to be present into flourish in a really believe in therapy. I know fr from high personal life. That better help is is helping so this is just a something you want to try out if it's something you're interested in if it's something you feel like you need or you want. Our listeners can get ten percent off the first month of online therapy at better help dot com slash sleep with me. That's a better help. B. e. t. t. e. r. h. e. l. p. dot com slash. Sleep with me better. Help dot com slash asleep with me. Thanks ever about a everybody's scoots is i took in here just wanted to to let you know about two things. 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