20 Episode results for "Mafia"

11: Joe Colombo (Part 1 )

Mafia

27:39 min | 7 months ago

11: Joe Colombo (Part 1 )

"Joseph Colombo amid ranking mafioso. In one of New York's five families but in nineteen sixty four he was determined to supercharge. Is Career your enemy trusted and trusted with the highest is crime possible. And that's murder. You would not even be considered for capital unless you've married someone on orders from the boss instead of following orders to kill the most fearsome mobster in town Colombo decided to break one of the mob's most important rules when you get accepted into the family when you take take that oath that burning paper and upon you a hand you swear allegiance to that family and only family nothing. Nothing oh come before your family mafia and everything else take second place. So that's the purpose of painting. Sometimes if you want to advance you have to make bold moves. Colombo's growing wealth attracted the attention of the police the FBI so Colombo devised a radical radical solution. It would be the beginning of his doubtful. It's hard to know precisely what was going on and Columba's mine of course we're never gonNA find out but this was a time of civil rights Throughout the United States great strides being made by people who are generally oppressed based I on Colorado's necessity Where they came from and so- Colombo I think this is an opportunity to get back at the FBI? This this is the story of a man who had made mafia history and to achieved the unthinkable. This is mafia across the East River. From Manhattan lies the borough of Brooklyn this was the hunting ground of forty year. Old Mobster Joseph Colombo as a member of new. York's pro fatty crime. Family Colombo was one of the families. Top top hatchet men eventually becoming a capital in nineteen sixty four Colombo was summoned to an important meeting his boss Joe Joe Meg Liuqiu and a mission for him. It was a hit and particularly dangerous. One for Joe Colombo. This was nothing new. Will he had already killed people about eleven murders to date rubbing people out was. What cappos did Joseph winding was NYPD? Detective focused on the five Mafia families. That ruled the city's underworld you would never events Takako without without killing. Thank thank aiding a capital. It's not going to make your move you up and less One you've killed on his office and and with that You come under his protection. Now you only have respect by the best protection you can give out there. And and the loyalty with men. It's it's forming a a military organization and they look to you for that leadership and you have to be a good elite few show weakness any kind of weakness. Little ice will try and take over you go. Joe Thomas. Repetto is the author of American Mafia theon and bringing down the mob. It means you're a full fledged member of an organized crime family and you have both the duties and the privileges is that a crew to that position You are enabled to make some money. You are protected hectic from the law by the family as much as they can but you also have the duty to strictly obey orders if they tell you to kill somebody you kill also buddy. Don't resign except feet. I do until this moment. Colombo was nothing special within within Mafia circles just one killer amongst many typical kind of ver- hoodlum Nothing outstanding about him that I know of but that was about to change forever. The tug at this time was none other than Carlo. Gambino New York's most powerful leader. It was generally regarded as most powerful boss the city. He wasn't what they call boss of bosses. They've never really had that here in New York or anywhere else but his his was considered the premier family. Although there are people who would claim that title the man who kept a lower profile Colonel Gambino had built his family. into new. York's toughest clam Colombo knew that a hit on any GAMBINO would be a suicide mission. Let alone Carlo self call again. Pino was the V boys he could take on three added a five families at one time. That's how big is organization moist. And he had some of the best the best killers he had the largest recruited soldiers. I think the F. B. I.. Put Seventeen hundred men were made in. The United States is made men because he was one gunman CONAN against one hundred if he put up ten gunmen. Carl I put up five hundred guns on it so trying figure it out I mean you you just don't get close to call him. He had an army around him his home. Ms a peak was in a cul de sac. He does want to houses on both sides of it and they would consider gun clubs. Hello everybody had a gun. There was legal. There was there was no getting close to Carlo and even suspected you I mean you just go up to a store and knock on the door and ask to speak the call and having to go to his underboss who is considered Larry and that just wouldn't have not only was Gambino's family more powerful powerful it was against the Mafia code to kill a made man without permission. If you kill call again now the kiss of death you you would never survive Colombo had spent years building his reputation as a feared and respected mafioso but now to keep his Mafia family honor Colombo had to execute the head of family but Golombo had other plans rather than kill. Carlo Gambino Colombo decided to tip him off boldly breaking one of the mob's most important rules. Every mafia family relies on unwavering loyalty from its members. This is one of the so called Ten Commandments. Your family comes first. Always Colombo gambled everything and openly Lee rejected the mafia oath. Instead he organized a meeting with Yelm Beano Gambino was grateful. Colombo's boss loss was summoned to a trial by the commission upon admission. Gambino ordered Joe. Meg Liuqiu to retire. Then as a reward for Colombo's bold new ooh he was given Mug Liuqiu old job he was promoted to head of a family which was then renamed in his honor. The PRO fetchy family family became the Colombo family very bold very bold. Worked out sometimes. If you want to advance you have to make a bold moves. I would think his own ambitions not so much to save his skin but due to further his own ambitions. You won't be the first person who stabbed his boss the back so that if you get a boss job Colombo had made Mafia history. He became the youngest godfather in a generation and and Colombo's new position came with real benefits. He could live off. The proceeds of crime paid to him by his criminal. Family members skewered the boy's family depending upon the size family Or you'll cappos have to be bringing in an envelope up to you fewer capital and you were in charge of construction. Everybody had to kick money to you. You would shut down the job if you were in charge. I Charles Campbell and loan shocking. They all got a percentage of how much money you out there on the street and I don't have to tell you a Nakai Cox was me. Golombo eagerly took over the best money making operations and the cash ruled in May know how to make money out of just about anything anything they get a piece out of. I think it's it's they get ten cents on every dollar for the trucking industry and now you can figure into whom increase increase shows common industry gambling prostitution. They run it all even in the construction industry. It's no myth I'll give you some once. Said thing the mafia controls the the garbage industry and the waste disposal of blood. That has now expired well. They didn't figure about trolling the blood out especially when they got to take all that after it was discovered. HIV contaminated wouldn't have been tested. So what do you think the Mafia on the do they repackages where they do. They sent the France. They had it shipped to France so they know how to make money. Even at a waste Colombo and his men didn't just make money from the garbage but also from loansharking to gamblers to anyone who needed cash fast loansharking charged borrowers huge rates of weekly weekly interest known as the VIG. Basically there are many people that they need money and banks were not not that readily give them the money because they ahead no financial backing by themselves organized crime would come in and that often news thanks go behind and give him the money organized crime would and it would give him that money. Of course he would pay an exuberant I guess the interest on the money on this twenty five to twenty six percent and basically. That's what they did. They just expanded that they expanded into a man that wanted to expand his business and he couldn't get money they would loan them money and that's basically how they started loansharking business if missing payments persisted. You could expect beating or worse. The Loan Shark Book of any Mafia operator could run into hundreds of thousands of dollars of weekly income. It was an easy way to make cash on the street. Colombo also made money from hijacking trucks and cargo and selling the stolen goods. In addition addition the Colombo family was known for extortion. Protection rackets and the infamous Mafia run union scams. But say they decide to move into juke boxes linen that the restaurants used pinball machines there it's all all of it is controlled. Oh by organized crime and resolve divided the sections. If you have a linen mount only you about could be high the clean linen for that restaurant all alltel if you have Gaba. Trout was divided areas. Only your area a garbage company could not move into and they control the whole area. And this went for Jew boxes. It went for a slot machines illegal slot machines. This was who all the rackets everything that they supply everything. A business might need to run with supply and an mafia gotta cut off there. Four hours the rackets unions managed everything from construction to garbage. The Mafia would take over the unions by stripping pension funds and setting up trade monopolies that would only benefit the mafia former NYPD. Detective Bill Clark. Anytime there's a big pool of money around around somebody's GonNa try to get into it and the unions had all this money and it was a matter of time you know. They started getting the hangs into a little bit. Colombo's increasing wealth began to attract the attention of the police and the FBI may nineteen nineteen. Sixty six Colombo was subpoenaed to stand as a witness for federal investigation on racketeering. He was set to appear before the grand jury a Federal Grand Juries unique when you go on for a year or better before finally Ruling has handed down. Da Might Use. Many of organized is crime. Many of you criminal say a grand jury is nothing but a tool of de eight. Well basically it is a hearing of the evidence to were a group of people and vote on it to see whether you have a case. Now you have to go out and make the arrest and prove that case but It's an important join tool in an investigative skill because it forces people to come in to appear and give testimony and now you lock them into that test. The LOMBO could no longer anger hide in the shadows but Colombo's stuck to mom protocols and refused to testify insisting he was just an honest businessman. Everybody's afraid of what's going to happen and a federal grand jury. Ah I spend all day. Talking about and researching the Mafia family life racketeering and of course the hit jobs so sometimes I need a break from all of that. My go-to mental pallet cleanser is best fiends. It's is a casual game. You can play on your phone. Which means anyone can play but the puzzles are challenging even for adults and I can spend as much or as little the time is I have playing the game between researching cappos? It's a nice break from the dark. Mafia underworld the over world is really a beautiful and everything is nice bright colors. I love the style of the puzzles. It's a new take on this kind of game. There are ton of characters and they're all bugs because you have to pick your characters to match the goals in each level there's a lot of strategy involved it's like picking the best suited characters for your own little gang but for me it's all about the side quests you can get secret level ups and special powers I and try to get ahead of your friends. Best veins is really different from other puzzle games. There are so many characters it doesn't get old and there are monthly updates with new levels and events. It's free to download and you don't need cell service so I can play it on the subway or while laying being low engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cool characters to with this five star rated mobile puzzle game on the apple APP store and Google Google play. That's fiends without the. Our best means Colombo was sentenced to thirty days in jail for refusing to answer questions about his financial affairs from grand jury. The authorities intensified their research into organized crime in New York in September. The FBI and the Queen's District Attorney's office made its first break through a massive bust us to the stellar restaurant in wikipedia. Detective Joe Coffee was given a tip off about the mafia meeting. Marstellar a restaurant in Queens Boulevard. Point points and it was pretty famous and pretty well to do a lot of good people went after dinner and they brought in the mob chiefs from all over the country again and they all sat down and broke bread and when all operations and we were able to get information from an informant that they were all ED And we rented the place. Ironically one hundred funny things about that one of the mobsters we grabbed had ten thousand dollars stashed in his shoes. It heralded the start. Start New pushback against the mob and especially against the New York Families Colombo as a family head was now on lawn. forcement radar Colombo soon realized what attracted the FBI and police to him was his wealth when he didn't have any visible source of income with a time to kill in prison Colombo devised a perfect solution he would become the ordinary working. Joe He was claiming to be he would insist cyst that all family members hold down real jobs to maintain a facade of legality. And not working on that you chops and not even going near a legitimate job. A limited job is for the ordinary people. Even People Colombo lead by example he worked as a salesman at Cantalupo Realty not on eighty sixth street. In Vincent Hearst Brooklyn in reality of course. He continued conducting his mafia business at the office Now when pressed by the authorities he could explain his income and his lifestyle and what a lifestyle it was. Joey like to dress like the biggest actors so very important about we bought shirts. We believe he did. He had everything made everything tale. It he wanted to be on equal name would fraction notching Dean Martin. He knew they dressed meticulously at great close and he wanted to be right there right alongside them and he didn't WanNa look like a Schlep. He wanted to be dressed to kill just like them. The money flooded lead in from his numerous rackets and Colombo was starting to get carried away with his status. He enjoyed the good life Manhattan. Becoming increasingly flamboyant flamboyant and extravagant adorned and expensive jewelry and suits Colombo cruised around in the city and flashy cadillacs. The new bulls like Colombo Colombo hosts the start of the start of the Gotti era where there would be nightclub running picking your brain. You send a good looking. Blond Whole Tame Colombo was the type of guy he was the transition from the all world to the new world. When it comes to up here he was the first guy who became flamboyant lamb buoyant I e the Italian American Civil Rights League that was unbelievably frowned upon by the online mops most mobsters there's regardless of this statute love the less she caused and the fleshy women in the tire? I call it the mafia costume with the gold chains and Pinky rings and you pointed shoes. We used to call him killer. Coaching Killer Rotunda Corner with issues in the extravagance Colombo was also becoming careless so he had reignited attention from the FBI and the income tax authorities. Thirty five thousand dollars. A year salary and tailor made suits and shirts did not add it up once again. The FBI had their sights on Colombo on April twenty. Third Nineteen Seventy Colombo's son. Joe Junior was arrested for melting down silver coins to extract precious Metals Columbus saw this as a trumped up charge designed to get at him and it was the final Straw Straw Colombo devised a radical solution to stop the FBI across America protests among civil rights groups were flourishing Colombo decided to jump on the bandwagon as way to fend off the FBI from his affairs and the reading clerk war on the FBI. The former hitman confidently confidently announced to the city. That Italian Americans were unfairly discriminated against by the United States and he exploited the growing unrest unrest in the Italian American community of the time claim that Italians were being discriminated against There was some truth in that at at that particular time you found very few Italian names in corporates executive suites outside of the automobile industry. You found very few Italian names on Wall Street in law or bank firms and a lot of Italian Americans and agreed bolt of attack the overwhelming number of Italian Americans. We're not involved in any kind of organized grabber mechanic rhyme and sometimes. That's at the back and there were a lot of jokes on television and about Italians. Some people still object to surprise soprano and to the Jersey shore series as demeaning to to attack but in any event A lot of people felt that the Italians were discriminated against and he started in a way that nobody could have foreseen so he began picketing FBI headquarters which was then on the upper east side and he decided madison proclaiming himself. A civil rights leader because that was fashionable at the time so Colombo with the remnants. I'm not the old family Allies of the Banana Family intermarried be organized. The giant civil rights demonstration here in New York very accessible through huge crowds up to Columbus circle and then he had a black tie dinner her at Madison Square Garden Frank Sinatra entertained and that was very successful and he passed the word of the time. He had his first rally alley that all of his businesses should close and Give money to the rally or attend. The rally Colombo had achieved the unthinkable. Unknown unknown mafioso had drawn a large crowd to pick at the FBI in New York the very heart of law enforcement. I think he felt that if the timing timing were right and he could get Italians Americans on their side and pressure can be put on the FBI because it was to some extent the political institution at the time He could stop them from moving ahead and he took a shot And for a while it looked like it was broken he might have succeeded seated And then of course it was a total and abject failure but as he began wasn't quite clear Which side of the brilliant insulin? He was on Colombo's movement had just begun day after day crowds of demonstrators harassed. FBI agents coming and going in my PD detective joke coffee onsite gathering Intel would be out there taking pictures to see who's who and who was what statute they were when they the ship Role they played in the family The Mafia People who had respect for somebody would come up and kissed him on both cheeks. You know the guy you know the kiss. It was an unbelievable that had been kissed I mean we did it for intelligence by very productive we would find people. I've just been made. We didn't know about would find out more and in fact they did us a favor by picketing all the time because they get more intelligence than than we would have gotten but Colombo was was rally l. e.. On the scene he would show up once in a while. Rally the troops and leave and he loo he used all his underlings and we used to call them. mooks and Awo ks through extend out there to pick me and fat as the crowds grew media attention. Followed Colombo reveled in it after several days of picketing picketing Joe Colombo told crowds and the press that there was a conspiracy in the United States against every Italian American. This direct challenge of authority authority was unheard of in Mafia circles. And it was in drastic contrast to Colombo silence at the grand jury years before Mafia men used to speaking in hushed tones were unsettled Colombo had become a walking target for the FBI and the Mafia by go to war. Why declare war on law enforcement trouble with them as it is? Why make it personal? In in the next episode Columba's caused disquiet among the highest circles of the mafia about the intensifying scrutiny. Of Law enforcement. I know a lot of them. were very furious with him. There were some collisions. They're on the picket lines. Learn the almost came to blows Colombo assumed. He was untouchable on the crest of a wave and immediate media. Darling and so he wouldn't back down girl. Columba was like all of them and EGAS. Here's the Doug he had the he fashioned himself offers a businessman which he wasn't he was an out doug and here's a street rat and he had no class family had no class but his enemies inside. I had the mob. Were stirring an old adversary from his early days was waiting in the wings. Vallon Colombo Nova got along Chris Columbus and trust Gallo Galleries Jealous of Colombo gala. One of the boss of the family of four. She couldn't be because Colombo was and as a result of that they had a terrific conflict. Mafia Lafayette is an audio boom and world meteorites. co-production hosted by me fleet cooper. It is produced by audio booms. Rachel Jacobs Casey Georgie Blair Peyton and Karen Bevan and by Paschal Hughes for World Media Rights. We add additional production help from world meteorites by Gerald's Bingguo and James James Tindale. David mcnabb is the series creative director and the executive producers for audio boom Brendan Reagan and steward last thanks to best beans for sponsoring this episode. Follow Mafia on spotify or subscribe on Apple podcasts. Stitcher or or wherever you find your favorite shows

Colombo Carlo Gambino Colombo Joseph Colombo FBI Colombo Colombo New York Vallon Colombo Nova New York Families Colombo Colombo United States Mafia Joe Joe Meg Liuqiu York Columba Yelm Beano Gambino NYPD Manhattan Golombo Brooklyn
Trailer: Mafia

Night Call

02:55 min | 9 months ago

Trailer: Mafia

"A Mafia listeners. Mafia is coming back on October sixteenth. Bringing you stories of America's most notorious glorious gangsters conman and cold blooded killers if you looked up the word evil in the dictionary. His picture would be that they don't genovese. There's never anything but a homicide maniac. I mean he was from the really filing schools killing him or just a daily business. It was turned over a page of the book of little concern. It means you're a full fledged member of an organized crime family and you have both the duties and the privileges that accrue to that position you are enabled to make some money but you also we'll have the duty to Orders they tell you to kill somebody you kill somebody to break your legs break you on if you don't pay a lot so many times and you get the money this season. We'll talk about the most notorious outlaw of Chicago. He literally literally kicked the mayor down the steps of City Hall to show publicly. This is what happens to people. Even politicians who defy alcohol but AL capone. He wanted the spotlight shining then he loved it. The man who invented being a rat it was put into the solitary confinement gave him the time thinks what's his own the out gotta become so he sends word to the Federal Authority that is willing to sink. Come Canary Sorry. The the number one thing that Vo Giovannucci revealed to law enforcement and to the people in charge of this country was the structure of the month. The history of the OFFI. He had a vast knowledge and he was the one who exposed at all and the gangster who ruled the record before they were even gangsters. Swing mm-hmm Rusty Evans model example kind of paves the way for the people who follow him. And that's why they're able to stay one step ahead ahead the law for so many years but rosty is the guy that kind of sets up this model really fall to this day so he was getting cuts from of these illegal watering holes as well. So you're talking about somebody with his involvement in every single step of the illegal alcohol trade which offers you of course more prophet so so he became very rich very quickly. Mafia season. Three is back every Wednesday. Starting October sixteenth. Follow Mafia on spotify. Subscribe on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast so

AL capone Mafia America genovese Vo Giovannucci spotify Rusty Evans Chicago City Hall Federal Authority Apple rosty
12: Joe Colombo (Part 2)

Mafia

28:40 min | 7 months ago

12: Joe Colombo (Part 2)

"Previously on Mafia on the books Joseph Colombo was thirty. Five thousand dollar a year employee at Cantalupo Cantalupo Realty in reality. The mafioso was flooded with cash from his numerous rackets and enjoying the good life joey liked liked to dress like the biggest acts so it was very important about. We bought shirts. We had a shoes me and believe me he did. He had everything being made. Everything was tailed. He wanted to be on your equal when he met with Frank Sinatra Dean Martin He knew they dressed meticulously had great close Yvonne to be right there right alongside them and he didn't WanNa look like a Schlep. He wanted to be dressed to kill just like them. Distress grew in the highest circles of the Mafia that law enforcement scrutiny would intensify because of Colombo's actions. The new bull like Colombo all colonised. The Star of the team started the Gotti era where there would be nightclub in a run painting ring or something. Good looking blond. And they're not eighteen Colombo was the type of guy he was the transition from the old world to the new world when it comes to the Mafia he was the first guy who became flamboyant Brian I e Italian American Civil Rights late that was unbelievably frowned upon by the old line mops any gained even more more attention when he used the growing civil rights movement as retaliation against the F. B. I. and declared war on the FBI this his Mafia Joseph Colombo had exploited the growing unrest in the Italian American community by claiming discrimination by the United States. He began to suggest that the F. B. I. themselves should be investigated for anti Italian bias in early nineteen. Seventy Columbus shifted his protest movement up here by creating the Italian American Civil Rights League with Colombo at the helm. The League had huge success. Almost almost instantly recruiting fifty thousand paying members to its cause Joseph wendling was an NYPD detective who focused on the five. If families it took off everybody wanted to be attached to everybody. Now you see Nationality Odi flakes. Joe Colombo started. It was the Italian fleet being placed on every collect that it was in Brooklyn owned by an Italian or or a Lincoln on by Italian every car had an Italian flag on it everybody bought into it including the politicians. It was to raise the hopes of the smaller time and be proud of being tied and not being associated with not being thought of as a killer or narcotics dealer but again it was just one mafioso taking an advantage of his own Ashen howdy for his own benefits. Colombo's league achieved saved some notable early victories. They took their campaign to the highest echelons of Corporate America. Major brands. Like General Motors and alka-seltzer we're targeted. Their ad campaigns were considered demeaning to Italian Americans and the League got them withdrawn in addition they successfully had a board game game known as the Godfather game pulled from macy's department stores even Hollywood felt their wrath producers of the film. The Godfather started to have trouble filming in New York. Production was threatened by walkouts obstructions and delays. The League came to the rescue offering bring to smooth the process. If the producers agreed to remove all references to the Mafia or Casino Stra from the script ultimately filming coming was allowed to continue on interrupted but despite their victories Columba's behavior was unacceptable amongst the highly secretive mafia Despite the Mafia's secret code Colombo was desperate to become a public figure. He even got the New York mayor prosecutors and the FBI to stop using the term mafia in its official documentation as it was deemed prejudiced. The city was listening to Joseph Colombo and the League was proven to be highly effective in June twenty. Ninth Nineteen Seventy Colombo was ready for the League's showpiece. Its first Italian American Unity Day rally to to be held in Columbus Circle in the heart of Manhattan I was assigned to it as a young officer. And there was so much press and so many any streets just mobbed with with people that were so proud half being Italian and everybody wants to get up on. The day is to be standing next to Joe Colombo when he spoke of National Pride and fellowship under the glare of news cameras rest fifty thousand people attended. New York's little. Italy was deserted. The other mob families reluctantly allowed Italian. American businesses is to close for the Day in solidarity he uses organization his Mafia organization to lean on everybody. It was like okay If you WANNA be our friend and say that you're a friend of US you'll contribute to the attain unity j campaign and it was important. Everybody wanted to be part of it. Colombo held the stage attacked law enforcement. It was a a triumph in the wake of the Rally Colombo was in demand for interviews. He appeared on TV shows and in magazine articles all all the major newspapers. The Daily News The New York Mirror the post. I mean every newspaper wanted to hear from him because he was the a man shouting from the rooftops about Italian pride tight and it sold papers and if you're in new the paper business that's what you want. And they all want to talk to him. I I think everybody was clamoring to get an interview with Joe Colombo. Joe Combo started. Joe Colombo gave birth Joe Colombo pushed it. Joker Humboldt did everything for and he took off the press greeted with open arms and it was tremendous was a tremendous to see the crappy turned out especially for the second one and it was tremendous to see the the pride publicly he continued to to say the Mafia was a myth and he promised to champion the rights of all minorities. Columba's league had an air of legality. Her how ever under Colombo the writing was on the wall. Thomas Repetto is the author of bringing down the mob. Rights night's league was created by Joe Colombo to mobilize Italians to fight against discrimination as far as that went. It wasn't a bad idea but he was the wrong person to be doing something like that. He was the wrong person to be represented as a leader of the Italian American community. Always the opportunist Colombo was hijacking a legitimate cause to make money for himself. The League groove to be a money maker netting him funds he could appropriate a very why state senator who was Italian. American said don't be fooled by Colombo actually got the Department of Justice under John Mitchell. The jolt on the State Governor Governor Rockefeller do not use words like causing nosed and has that senator said we think we can eliminate devils that was by exercising them from the English Slang in Y. P. D. Detective Joe Coffee had suspected the whole thing was a scam and was given a tip off about the Mafia. A meeting. Joe Colombo form the Italian American civilized as Iraq. It is a scam to make money period and he used it for that purpose shaking taking down store on us all over Italian neighborhoods forcing them to put her stick them in a window. There was an Italian flag with a worn on at a tiny American Civil Rights League and he actually was garnering receipts from that. That was an era when a lot of things we're upside down in the sixties anybody could wave the civil rights banner interested shield for his activities. Some people took him seriously. Most New Eddie was you. He was not claim to be Colombo was creating reading jealousy and suspicion within the mafia ranks and within his own family. His old mentor Carlo. Gambino started to warn him him that he was playing with fire. I was very dangerous US told not to and he was told by call. Stop this. We don't want it no as if the bus was taken. If you continue you have payer price. But Columba was oblivious Bolivia's to any looming danger and thought that his success only warranted reward. One hundred codes of the mob is. Don't make yourself a target. Don't make yourself so to go out there and bring attention to you into our operation. Would they call off thing causing Ostra now. Columba Bush attention that was unwanted. He figured figured he was bigger. And better than the unit that he was working with which was the mafia and he figured that he could be in Kabul duty copy which means boss of all bosses more trouble trouble arose when the FBI struck back angered by Colombo's actions they issued subpoenas for various high profile bosses. Columbus Colombo was arrested along with one of his men. Rocco Moraga Leah. When police searched his car? They found a briefcase stuffed full of incriminating documents. The documents detailed the various Colombo family rackets even worse they discovered the names of other. High ranking mob men Colombo was immediately immediately called before a federal grand jury to explain himself but then he did something utterly unfunny forgivable rather than keeping his mouth shut like like he had before he adopted a different tactic. He explained that it was a list of donations. Carl he explained was none other than Carlo. Carlo Gambino reputed Mafia boss. The thirty thousand dollars next to his name was actually a donation to the league. You call it to a pizzeria and you see a cup out much like you. See a wounded warriors program Make a campaign to detain you. A Parade and you would you would. Because you know he's right you shake on a deal. Everybody thinks you kill us I am. I'll make a donation as what it was like. I said he he started it. He created it he pushed. This was a bad move the repercussions were immediate. The Police Department moved in on the Mafia federal Israel strike forces combed the city even Carlo Gambino paid the price and was arrested. It was clear that Columba's loose lips had got him came into deep trouble with his former mentor and with the FBI. This incense the Mafia Osha. They want they. They wanted silence. They wanted to stay in the shadows and Joe is bringing The holidays are over. And it's a brand new year. 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STREAM DOT COM forward forward slash mafia L. I. G. H. T. S. T. R. E. A. M. dot com forward slash mafia. A subject to credit approval rate includes zero point. Five zero percent auto pay discount terms and conditions apply offers are subject to change without notice visit light stream dot com forward slash mafia for more information. Joseph Colombo's days were numbered. Despite the looming threat of the Mafia Colombo decided he would roll out the league across America even booked Frank Sinatra for a fundraiser. At Madison Square Garden politicians also joined the cause including state governor Nelson Rockefeller. This rally would seal his status status as a civil rights activist and keep the forces of law and order at bay. Colombo's old nemesis crazy Joe. Gallo was watching events from prison with a critical eye. Joe Gallo was a real real dog. I mean who had the Iq of them with ball. I mean that's how low he was giving example. Joe Gallo's operation had a club on prisoners street in Brooklyn and in the basement. They had a mountain lion but they used to intimidate timothy date victims meaning gambling victims will and the money alone shocking victims. And if somebody didn't pay up that just bring him to the club. President street opened a building a basement. Down at the bottom. Some of the stairs would be this mountain lion and they would do what they were told. That was the mentality of Joe. Gallo that is not a fantasy. That's a real thing. I witnessed that myself. Gallo and his brothers Larry and Albert were together known as the Gallo clan. The three of them had once tried to take over the Colombo family in the nineteen sixties. They led a bloody insurrection until Joe Colombo himself brokered peace deal with Larry and Albert. Meanwhile oh crazy. Joe was serving seven to fourteen years in state prison for attempting to extort money from a cafe owner now crazy joe was itching to get back back and old rival Colombo. There was a book written written about the Gallup polling. gangly couldn't shoot straight. My Jimmy Brush perfect the picture of these people when morons they walk and they had a crude easily recognizable around the city. The bottom line is jealousy gala. WANTED ME TO BOSTON. Family Colombo was the boss of the family and gala wanted to thank him out simple as that Gallo needed soldiers for his plans showdown and he had a novel all ideas where to find them behind bars. He had made contacts and alliances with African American gangsters from East Harlem. This was something no no one in the Mafia had ever attempted the two groups were traditionally enemies but Gallo was ahead of his time. He saw that if the two groups work together they could be stronger when he went away to prison. He formed a friendship with the number of African American American gangsters. He proposed that they set up a black mafia with himself as advisor. It was actually taken to a vote doc but lost among black gang leaders so by him bringing blacks in the way of rebelling against the Mafia bosses. When he goes was to jail? You did big time for thing that we put him away for shaken down bars and restaurants in the sixties he meets and he hangs out with nothing black people put in jail and they would hobnob together and he was a bit of a character crazy Joe Gallo because he was legitimately crazy and he befriended all these guys when he came out and he kind time. Can we wanted to kill Joe Colombo and he did it without sanction. He Hide Jerome Johnson a guy he meant jail to white Colombo. In February nineteen seventy-one gala was released after nine in years in prison publicly. He swore his mafia days were over and he renounced his criminal past but privately it was business as usual. He was back on the streets and for him. The peace deal between himself and Colombo was no and void as far whereas he was concerned the war had never been over. He was preparing for a counterattack. Columbus Day the early seventies they had a huge rally which attracted thousands and thousands of Italian Americans. This was Colombo's rallied to rally the Italian people against the FBI and New York City Police Department Law Enforcement General. They call the American American Italian American Civil Rights League that was their day and it was Columbus Day and They were giving speeches and it had all sorts of dignitaries coming up and politicians who are in their pocket in Georgia's and all sorts of corrupt creeps. The rally started the same as the other ones however something had changed the other mafia bosses and instructed Italian Americans to stay at work because the league was no longer tolerated. Forty thousand fewer people pool turned out just before noon Colombo headed to the podium to speak. He was preparing to launch another stinging attack on the FBI. An African American news cameraman with press credentials approached as other journalists gut. Columba's attention for a sound bite. The newsman moved forward award Joe. Coffee remembers the moment growing. Bohol comes this gunman and shoots Colombo and the head down. He goes and Ben Colombo's people go the Guy Simple now. We're a distance away taking pictures and doing intelligence where taking played numbers and observing. who was that? That's what we saw. Joe Colombo collapsed to the ground. He may have been in battle with the FBI but he had failed to realize the civil war he had started amongst his own mafia family but Golombo wouldn't be the only person on the mafia hit list that day. Ah Little did he know and Tien plan to kill him at that thing. which would he thought would never happen so much that he didn't have his bodyguards closed on and the man that shot him was dead before he hit the floor? So that was actually two killings arranged at day one to have joe shot and want to the have the shooter killed so nobody could get you trace back though. His one family Joe Colombo was immediately rushed to the hospital hospital alive but comatose supporters. Were at a loss to explain what had happened. The Hidden Colombo lumber had been carried out by Jerome Johnson a man from Harlem but he was very unlikely killer. He was a drifter in a petty criminal with a pension for stalking girls on a nearby university campus. He had no record as a hitman for the mob. It was a curious discrepancy. For new. York's police least department. What was puzzling? was that someone must have told Johnson to undertake the hit and trained him. The question was who and the link to Harlem pointed back to Crazy Joe Gallo reporters at the time linked Gallo with the hit but for the police piece this was merely conjecture with Johnson now dead. It was hard to find out who had ordered the hit. I was supposed to have permission of all the other bosses to kill. Oh boss There's a simple boss Wa SA's can't allow bosses to be killed without without the permission of the boss other than otherwise. None of them are safe. Many concluded that Gambino had to be behind the hit that he sold it to the commission and paid Johnson to do his dirty work. The story this favored by by the police department. The Colombo hit is that probably was either the Gallos or the Gambino's who did that and that they hired the black man to do it because he could get up. Close to Colombo without attracting suspicion I don't know if that's that's correct or not but certainly i. I don't think there was much crying in the Gambino camper the gala camp when Joe Colombo was so seriously wounded mysterious background. Remember Gallo had I try to make an alliance with black leaders so some people saw Gallo and Johnson is somehow involved was Johnson simply set. Sent there and set up as the Hitman and somebody else fired the shot or did he in fact fire the shot and then killed himself love. Who knows who knows? Everybody has different stories about that sort of thing but as so often happens with the mafia the events surrounding founding Colombo went unsolved. There was nothing to pin on Gambino eleven months after Colombo's assassination Colombo's family family decided to take revenge on Gallo themselves crazy. Joe was celebrating his forty third birthday with family and friends at Umberto's Clam House in Manhattan's as little Italy. UNBEKNOWNST to the group four hitmen entered through the back door and opened fire. Gano staggered to the front door. Four where he eventually stumbled into the street and collapsed. It would die later that day in the hospital for the FBI and police lease investigators. The only explanation had to be Colombo family members out for revenge coincidentally detective Joe Coffee had spotted gallow earlier in the evening. Joey got himself was murdered on April. Seven nine thousand nine hundred seventy two in front of Umbrellas Clam Baugh along Mulberry Street in Manhattan and he was killed by elements of the Colombo family was order by a guy named Joseph Yucca Valley Jo. He was concealing no. Oh he was the capital and the Colombo family who ordered the hit and it was carried out by a guy named Carl. Mein be is Deby Ozzy whose nickname was Sonny Pinto and a guy named WHO's the other shooter Gambino? But if Colombo's and gallows assassinations were supposed to bring stability back to the mafia they failed. It left both families leaderless and still at war. The Colombo Colombo family is now just a shadow of its former self as of twenty eleven one hundred twenty five of its members were arrested and imprisoned As for Joseph Colombo none of this mattered. He never recovered from that infamous day at the rally. He remained in in a coma for seven years. He died in nineteen seventy eight. He died a maverick gun. Father a former killer who had dared do things differently but by taking on the Mafia rules and fighting the FBI. At the same time it was a battle. He could never win for a while he got away with it. People who should have known better Joined his committees. He was using civil rights as a as a shield. The old my opinion he was the fool Joe Colombo was going against every tenant of the mafia screed out by being flamboyant by being out in front by establishing a group to a opposed oppression of the Italian nationality. Elodie was totally against all all influence that the mob had through the years. I mean it really caused them a major problem. And that's why he matters. There's the mice. Joseph Colombo's so-called Civil Rights League grew into a national phenomenon but after his assassination the movement virtually disappeared appeared overnight. Colombo's first mistake and lasting mistake was for many Italian American Civil Rights League it was the direct cause of his. There's the Mayes was the direct cause. If he wasn't shot and killed he would've been absolutely ostracize by the rest of the mob. It would have been them. They had to kill him to rid of him because he brought so much attention to the family the Colombo family of self and also the rest of the commission they had to go. Oh Perry Mafia is an audio boom and world media rights co production hosted by me fleet cooper. It is produced by audio booms. Rachel Israel Jacobs Casey Georgie. Lehrer Peyton and Karen Bevan and by Pasco Hughes for world meteorites. We had additional production help from world media the rights by Gerald's Abimbola James Tindale. David mcnabb is the series creative director and the executive producers for audio. Boom or Brendan Reagan begin and steward last thanks to light stream for sponsoring this episode. Follow Mafia on spotify or subscribe on Apple. PODCAST I stitch or wherever you find your favorite chills

Columbus Colombo Colombo Mafia Joseph Colombo FBI Detective Joe Coffee Colombo Colombo Joe Gallo League Colombo Columba Carlo Gambino Ben Colombo Italian American Civil Rights Italian American community Jerome Johnson American American Italian Amer Italian American Civil Rights
8: Don Vito and the Prime Minister (Part 2)

Mafia

36:58 min | 8 months ago

8: Don Vito and the Prime Minister (Part 2)

"Previously on Mafia Charles Lucky Luchino had been arrested. And Frank Costello take over the family. Frank Costello was called the prime minister because that title was given to them by the media on the newspapers and television. What have you and the reason for that? Is that lead content to our English ancestry. In this country where the famous Prime Minister Winston Churchill. And they made ed franchise fellow the American Winston Churchill in the underworld but Vito Genovese say wanted his job and was waiting for him to make a mistake. The What happened is when he was summoned before the deformed committee of the United States Senate he assumed that he could get through the hearing successfully Russian partly because he had political friends Barnaby dozens of charming guy and he was essentially say? I'm just I'm just again kind of fool himself toward be in an unknown to both of them Costello's mistake would be not only his own downfall but the beginning of the downfall of the entire hire luck Cosa Nostra. This is mafia like Castillo. Genovese got his starting crime under the guidance of lucky Luciano but while Castillo lamaze name for himself and floating casinos and one armed bandits Genoveva got into a much more lucrative business drugs so when grab the author of five families and he was one of the people who introduced really into the inner cities heroin for the first twenty massive scale it made millions for him and made a lot of mafiose site but the point very simply he deserved that spot in hell the doing that he ruined and wrecked many neighborhoods throughout the American many major cities because of the narcotics plague database always thought that narcotics was a good deal for Costello was a little more apprehensive. One of the reasons he knew that the toiling back especially in the fifties and in the forty the only long long sentences anybody could get that month and the Clinton claims that the mafia was involved in would be narcotics. The mob as a whole was not interested interested in drug running mostly because it drew too much attention from law enforcement former NYPD. Officer Joe Coffee brought he drugs and when I mean by heat is that if you dealt drugs and you got backed and your face a lot of time in jail you're gonNA roll. You're going to become a rat so they felt that if they kept the hand drugs they would be able to avoid that but it brought genovese his reputation and helped him to survive abroad not long after Lucina was arrested. Vito Vito Genovese say also got in trouble. He was Luciano's underboss and next in line to take over the family but now a witness had come forward to to convict him of a murder. That happened four years ago. Genovese fled to Italy to avoid the murder charge. It was said he had seven hundred fifty thousand thousand dollars in his trunk and he was going to need it. The new leader of Italy was Benito Mussolini the head of the National Fascist Party and he was fiercely against the Sicilian Mafia. Thomas Repetto is the author of American Mafia. He fled had to avoid a murder rap And there he had to live under the protection of Mussolini but of course but Cellini was known for shooting mafiosos and so he could ever really we relax genovese would soon discover that he was open to offers and he was pretty crafty guy. Genovese turned out. He worked with both of the Axis and the allies. I took a little engineering. But he pulled it off. He was very close. He cutting up Benito Needle Mussolini by providing money providing donations to fascist buildings and even managed to pull off a hit for muscle. Lean seen in New York. There was a Anna Kissed newspaper run in New York which was a persistent critic. Mussolini must lean waiting for some reason wanted to get rid of the editor of that newspaper. How do you arrange the hit? He went to Don Vito Genovese. Who got worried to his killers So he has all these favors can be miscellany and he was doing quite well and we looked to think we're prepared for a catastrophe. Earthquakes earthquakes volcanoes tornadoes. Sue Niamey's these aren't just things we can pay off to leave us alone. It's Mother Nature. ooh and she does whatever she wants. PODCAST networks new podcast. Natural disasters investigates the Earth's most devastating dating catastrophes every week natural disasters dives into the stories of these cataclysms and the people who were impacted by them. Some are ancient and shrouded in mystery like the volcanic eruption of Mount Vesuvius. Where it's believed sixteen thousand people died from mm-hmm heat sophistication others Maurice and like the nineteen? ninety-six climbers caught it up everest in a terrible blizzard. And they talk about very very recent tragedies like the twenty eleven soon Nami that killed eighteen thousand people in Japan and had waves reported to be three stories high natural disasters. Remind us that even though humanity has accomplished a lot we are no match for the fury mother. Nature listening listening. Subscribe to natural disasters for free on spotify. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. As a reward for genevieve's as donations and services uses Mussolini gave him the order of Saints Maurice and Lazarus similar to a knighthood but it wasn't long before Mussolini also became became a target the allied forces were winning World War. Two to stay safe genovese say would have to try and gain the trust of America. Once it's again. He quickly switched sides and became an interpreter for the American forces and adviser to the US military government. Unfortunately unfortunately at that time for famed unfortunate for Vito Genovese say the allies landed in Italy. Mussolini was going in fact uh he lost his life in the war. So what did veto do return to black marketeering and working. Because he spoke English he began working with the allied troops proved the American troops in Naples and they thought he was doing him a favor. What he was doing he was running a black marketeering scheme? He was stealing supplies for. Mommy armie basis by corrupting only offices and so on the black market in Italy but despite it is helped to the government in Sicily Genovese was still wanted for murder. Genovese was brought back to the states to stand trial but he quickly weekly had the only witness killed without the testimony. He was a freeman but the mafia position he had left behind was is filled in his absence. The luchino family was now headed by Frank Costello Joe. coffey said that genevieve say wasted. No time in in trying to kill Costello but he couldn't just shoot him all would on eighty degrees separated genevieve santosh download just Castelo hated it GonNa be shutting style. I mean that's the new everybody know what at the time. I was a little kid when I was going on but my father was involved in that stuff used to fill me in on it. You cannot hit anyone in the mob particularly abortion unless you get the okay the whole commission and I understand in this to be true. The genevieve's many many times trying to get the okay of commissioning kill touchstone with customers position on the newly made Mafia commission he. He couldn't be killed without permission but their feelings about Castillo changed after the nineteen fifty one Kief of her hearings. Costello had testified defied before the hearings thinking he would make the mob looked good but he had failed and he had implicated himself with the IRS and the IRS. When after the Justice Department now that he was in the spotlight had do something so they got him on tax evasion tax cases which is easiest? The thing to do if you WANNA get a criminal in America get them on taxes and they got it exactly short sentences so it was the beginning of the end by appearing before the Kefauver Salva Committee and thinking. He was smart enough that he can handle senators and handle the your attorneys. That were the councils have a whip sore and they did so he was a big loser. Genovese set-asides on killing one of Castillo's most trusted allies. Willie Moretti a former former hit man. It was not hard to convince. The commission learned. Moretti was pretty much lost his mental we librium at that particular time and he he made a lot of himself to in front of the Kefauver Committee and he was saying a lot of indiscreet things. Some some people saw his murder as an act of mercy. Moretti had been suffering from advanced syphilis which was spreading to his brain he was already in in hot water for his own performance at the key for hearings due to the illness and so when genevieve say brought the idea to the commission of an open hit they took him up on it. Meanwhile Costello was unable to make a move back at Genovese. He was in and out of jail over the next six years. Here's when he came out on bail in March nineteen fifty seven. It was Genovese who decided to make a final strike. His Ace in the hole hole was a mentality by the name of Vincent. The Chin. Gigante a former boxer Jonathan. He's put the contract down on Frank Stella mm-hmm and it was based primarily jealousy. He had to get rid of him. He was a competitor at least genevieve's perceived him to be a competitor Stella Elena debt now. What he did was he gave the contract to Chin? Gigante Vincent Gigante was a former prizefighter. Who became became genevieve? His chauffeur job genevieve several where he was. A real thug. Tough guy I mean in Kenya drop. He was the the mirror image over general slight them for that was system ruthless Kelly. He gave him the contract. The commission wouldn't grant genovese say permission to kill one of their own but genovese decided to hit Castillo. Anyway he said about studying Castillo's daily ely routine genovese wasn't the only Person Tracking Costello on parole. The former prime minister was under Scrutiny of the law as well Joe Coffee was in New York City. Detective Sergeant tasked with keeping an eye on Castelo Branco. I Don. I knew each other pretty well. Not that we were friends but it was by necessity. I wish assigned to follow him. He lived in a place the West I call them majestic. It's a house. It's an apartment house on Central Park West now. I used to pick him up there early in the morning. He was an early riser. Hi Sir and every day he would walk to the walled office story from Sixty Ninth Street in Central Park West seventy third street the Waldo for story which is forty nine hundred block. Ever you would walk every time and it would go there and he would get a shave and a half hood every day and a manicure three times a week. That's how Stenius Genovese they say was also able to pick up on Castillo's predictable routine and coffee realized Costello wasn't especially easy target for a mob. Boss us it all went back to his very first arrest Franco. Stilo didn't like carrying a gun as has been pointed out many many times he arrested for carrying a gun one time and it was very distasteful him he felt he could get along in life and in his business without intimidating people. He can do a pie his brand he was a pretty congenial guy who got along very well with anybody made sure that he did. And as a result of his mannerisms and his character he was he's really poured into these signing world of New York City with. He only wanted to do that and he was very good at it. Basically he was not a man who used violence silence regularly or lightly. He didn't use bodyguards. For the most part other bosses had army of bodyguards around them Costello hostels. And if they're going to kill you that's the first ones though bribe and it's the time of year when everyone is traveling or running around getting thoughtful gifts for the people you care about. Think about giving being yourself. The gift of audible membership now is the best time to do it with a special offer of fifty three percent off your first three months access and unbeatable selection of audio books including bestsellers motivation mysteries thrillers. Memoirs and more you can choose three titles every month one audiobook and two exclusive audible originals. You can't hear anywhere else this and on any device any time anywhere with the audible APP. It's great while commuting at the gym or during your holiday travels with audible. You'll also also enjoy easy audiobook exchanges and your own Audio Book Library You keep forever even if you cancel right now for a limited time nine you can get three months of audible for just six dollars ninety five cents a month. That's more than half off the regular price. Give yourself a gift of listening for more go to audible. Dot Com forward slash Mafia. Right now for for a limited time. You can get three months of audible for just six dollars. Ninety five cents a month. That's more than half off the regular price. Choose is one audiobook in two audible originals. Absolutely free visit audible dot com forward slash mafia or text mafia Two five zero zero dash five zero zero. Why not check out an audiobook from one of our contributors? My personal favorite is five families is by someone. Rap or American Mafia by Thomas Repetto audible dot com forward slash mafia or text Mafia. Two five zero zero dash five zero zero mm-hmm on the evening of May second second one thousand nine hundred fifty seven frank. Costello took a cab back to his apartment after a nice dinner with some friends. Castillo live the very upscale apartments overlook. Simple Park Stella was so sure of himself. Even though we knew genovese was around had nobody guards he he would drive around by himself. Go with the cares meet. People and there was no failing protectors and he came home tonight walked into his lobby and he was met by Gigante right there in the lobby two gun. They raised his gun and yelled. This is for you frank. Stella was covered with blood when he reached the hospital but he was only wounded. It was believed that Gigante words had saved Costello. The prime minister turned his head to see who was behind him so the bullet only grazed his skull NYPD. Detective Joe Coffee says many people believe Gianatti had meant to wound him. Not as the Bait. Read the J- again. He missed them on purpose or he just missed them. Out of ineptness I choose the latter. He just missed he meant to kill him. Wasn't a warning shot. But there's a rule them up if you try and you miss you. Don't try try it. Okay and frank one last night and the famous picture of him wearing fedora with the bandage around them and and he had the wound and he was out of the hospital next morning The whole purpose there was to kill him. It wasn't to warn them. The Doorman of the majestic identified gigante as Castillo's Hitman and Uganda was put on trial for attempted murder. It now came came down to Castello. If he confirmed the shooter was Gigante. Police would go after him but like Rothstein before Him Costello Bella refused to say anything even about his own assassination and told the jury that he didn't recognize Gonty Gigante was acquitted then thanked Costello outside of court. The botched hit left genovese vulnerable and gave Castillo back some of the power. He Lost Genovese shifted focus and decided his next move was to eliminate one of Castillo's most powerful allies Albert Anastasia. He was called the Lord High Executioner. He was Boston the Brooklyn waterfronts. He was a key figure in Murder Inc.. He was tough. Ruthless Man Not at all like Todd Stella who is his good friend and if there had been a move against Estella with anesthesia's still alive there would have been a counter attack by anesthesia. Anastasia was a skilled assassin and one of the founders of the Mafia's enforcement arm murder inc.. If genovese was going to assassinate him he had to be clever about it but getting to anesthesia was no simple feet. He lived in a New Jersey mansion guarded by dogs barbed wire fences and always traveled traveled with bodyguards. Genovese needed somebody on the inside. He approached Carlo. Gambino then an ambitious Estacio station lieutenant and convinced him that they would both be better off with anesthesia. Dead and anesthesia had recently killed a civilian while on a job and putting him in poor favor with the commission that was an estate had become a problem Too much heat on because the murder INC operated situation that transpired after that with his interference with the other Mahbub activity. She had to go on on the morning of October. Twenty Fifth Nineteen fifty seven at ten fifteen a M Albert anesthesia. Walked into a barber shop in midtown Manhattan and his bodyguards parked the car in an underground garage and then took a walk and a stage closed his eyes and relaxed into into the barber's chair. Two men in suits with scarves covering their lower faces walked up behind him genevieve say sprang into action. He immediately announced that he was the head of the Luchino family and his is followers started a coup against Frank Castillo and Castillo new amend. His time was over. His reign was complete. That if he didn't surrender zero abdicate he was he was going to be assassinated and he went into early. Retirement custodian the message to Vito Genovese. Say Say Dun veto if yours your control. And that's what happened. Costello was already injured in disgraced Joe. Coffee says at this point point he was looking for a way out. Castello wanted out of the mob. Even before the shooting wants wants the shooting occurred. It became easy to walk because he knew by the rules. They couldn't take him again. Couldn't hit him again and he took his time and it. Just that's when he started to really build his base with high-society element city Stelo didn't really want to become the era parent. He didn't want to become the boss because he had enough breath. And that's when Genovese had finally league done it. He was now the boss of the largest mafia family in New York but he was also in deep trouble blinded by ruthless ruthless ambition. He had ordered the hits on Anesthesia and Costello without the formal go ahead from the commission and he was about to get into deeper for trouble in nineteen fifty seven genovese requested a meeting of the Commission to formalize his role of boss as well as to explain his recent actions in New York he also said that all of his followers should attend to support him it. It was not a good idea. Nine thousand nine hundred fifty seven was a traumatic year for the American mafia and especially the Mafia works work city. What happened was to really pivotal events? number one don. Vito genovese puts out a contract. Attract on Frank Castillo Frank. Stella was wounded retired. Now there's a new board of a very powerful family and he Peter Genovese also in another family now known as the Gambino family is a big change over there to the family had been run until that time by Albert on stage here and the new leader of that family family is calling on the commission was not supposed to call another meeting another national convention which will be held every five years for four more years but genovese insisted that the bosses moly other family that a New York families had to assemble the cost of these important developments in New York work and he wanted it known that he was the boss of the family. And it's been a major change over in with anaesthesia replaced by Gambino. So they picked the same place they had met the previous in the national convention in a small town in upstate. New York known example. More than sixty exte- senior mafia bosses with their advisers and bodyguards traveled from Cuba Italy and from all over the United States to a hilltop estate in Apple. Lock in New York. It was supposed to be away from the surveillance of the NYPD. It was also the home of Mafia boss. Joseph Barbara Appalachian meeting that was held upstate. New York was a meeting of mobsters from all over the country It had people from every major city in the country. Keep in mind that the mob as we know today I it was formed in nineteen. Thirty one was one hundred percent control by the five founders in New York all the other cities were ancillary than answers to New York mobsters. It wasn't enormous gathering. There were for over one hundred people present all parked on a small estate. Had anyone been paying attention. The large number of luxury cars in one place would would have been suspicious and someone was paying attention. The local police there noticed something strange. All these out of town autism dozens of cars pulling into one one one farmhouse in a remote area. They made an investigation and sorta later the discovered it was a mafia meaning or they knew all these Italian some of them would records. Were meeting their local trooper. Edgar Crosswell had a past encounter counter with Mafia boss. Carmine Galante on his way to Barbara's house after a background check on Galante and discovering he was a muffin. UC crosswell swell had been surveilling. The estate ever since that day in November crosswell had grown more suspicious. There were rumors that that every room in his town. Single Hotel had been booked out by one man. After further inquiry crosswell found out the big spender was Joseph with Barbara a local rumored to have mafia connections. He called for backup. State troopers crawled through a stretch of land beside Joseph. Barbara's house inside was a fleet of luxury cars and richly dressed men and the state troopers closed in and as they did Mafia panicked some rushed to the cars others fled through the woods. Some got away. They ran from the scene. Some heard arraigned was on and never arrived. They turned around with their cars and went back back but they got enough of them to show that something big was happening and a lot of people who are denied. There was such a thing as the the mafia or a national syndicate headache on their face. They explain where all these geishas molly suddenly doing. Farm in the southern tier of New York crosswell and his as men eventually managed to round up sixty mafia members including New York leaders Bonanno Galanti and Gambino far from triumphant moment announcing his ascension he had exposed them all to the authorities number one. The letter mobsters announced throughout the country. Blamed the Vito genovese because he insisted on a meeting so he could he could get mistaken. Embarrassed everybody as a direct result of Lockin a federal grand jury found twenty Mafia members guilty of conspiracy to commit perjury and to obstruct justice this and imposed sentences. Between three and five years this included the two would-be bosses genovese and Gambino. Eventually these were overturned by the United States Court of Appeals on the basis of insufficient evidence but the damage it had been done the FBI who had been slow to acknowledge the depth of the mafia could no longer ignore it. Because here you had This obvious convention of Italian or Sicilian American mobsters and you couldn't dismiss it just as a casual meeting and the claim in by all of them that they went to visit a sick friend. Nobody could swallow that former assistant director at the FBI Steve pomerantz. I think the Appalachian Organized Crime Meeting the meeting of bosses of America's organized crime in one location Really brought home to the American public and to the FBI FBI. The magnitude of this problem That we they were so brazen. They were so bold and so powerful that they would actually have a meeting much as any large legitimate. American Corporation would meet to decide of internal issues if you will their organization. They're direction what they wanted to do in a legitimate company would do this. This really printed itself on American On the American public and certainly on the FBI before FBI Director J Edgar Hoover had been reluctant to admit the existence of organized crime in America. He had even written. There was no such thing as organized crime or the Mafia and the claim that there was a national crime syndicate was Baloney Ronald Gould stock is a former mafia investigator. I think black and was more important not so much for the country but it went for the FBI all of a sudden everything that they had been saying that there was no national organization that crime was essentially local and it was soak local law enforcement to deal with Became obviously incorrect There was a moment where it was absolutely patently clear that they had a role to do that they had not performing that was it after Ab Lockin however the FBI were galvanized into action. The Federal Bureau of narcotics was instructed to target Vito Genovese say in their fight against drugs. Never never underestimate. The man is that Vito Genovese left with his even what his departure it was he who was so instrumental one of the key players and brilliant this scourge of heroin narcotics into America. Without him it might never have occurred. He opened up these opportunities that the Mafia Lafayette with the assistance of the Cillian mafia would use widespread distribution into the inner cities of America. The biggest cities New York Chicago Philadelphia Boston Pittsburgh so what this did was he left a legacy we still have. Today was the beginning of narcotics corruption. Genovese was given fifteen years in federal prison but he wouldn't give up his hard won prize so easily and so he continued to rule his organization organization unchallenged from his prison cell. His legacy still lives on to this day. The most powerful Mafia Organization Organization in America bears his name the Genovese family continues to make millions from its criminal activities and genevieve's as proteges as would rise to the top of the new Mafia. Vito Genovese most important legacy thirty. He left behind and caused a lot out of trouble for American law enforcement was a character by the name of Vincent known as a Chin Gigante Genovese mentored gigante taught him everything he probably knew. Changing Gandhi was top lieutenant to veto in fact they were both convicted on the same crime in our conches crime gigantic. Shortest sentence of about ten years we came out it was one of the most important people powerful figures in what it was known as a Genovese family and sort of seen not later chicken anti became the top dog in the family the Godfather meanwhile Frank Stella retired in peace before the Appalachian Conference. He spent the rest of his his days gardening at his home. Before he died of a heart attack he was remembered fondly by those who knew him was a rather pleasant booking Bersin And he never denied his background. He said don't write my life. You write my life. Don't say I sold bibles movie But he thought what he had gotten over that you want to be respectable but genovese had exposed the mafia to the FBI. The upper lockin disaster would signal the beginning of their crackdown on organized crime. In America and genovise anger would bring one informant out into the light. Joseph V. Laci who would further the fall of the Mafia people. Call them illegal. They weren't illegal as much into were extralegal to war. No laws that really governed wiretapping and all those sorts of things and at that time but they were extra and they couldn't be used as evidence so a lot of those that went on a lot of the lot of material that was collected again about this the structure and so many activities In and in I believe wasn't in one thousand nine hundred sixty eight when Congress passed the omnibus crime control and safe streets. Act that we really got though the legal ability ability to conduct on the carefully controlled. Circumstances court ordered wiretaps which we could use as evidence not just for intelligence. There's evidence in criminal investigations and we set out to do that in the next episode. Joseph V. Laci was a lowlife food. Always wanted to be part of the Mafia and he got his chance when he left sing sing prison. But far from becoming a notorious gangster will not cheat would become a Torius for breaking the mob Code Flint came in any it was tough. He told the LACI listening. Tell us what we WANNA know. Value wasn't as deal involved and Vlach realize he install talking. It was put into solitary confinement. gave the time getting not the to leave things got to become a rat so he says worry in February authority that sink come canary and giving the FBI all of their secrets he interpreted the hieroglyphic told them what it all meant how the organization's function other families other makeup was to host structure and they actually gave them names of the New York Families Families for the first time. And who are the boss. Something they did. It made suspected things with this was the inside information. This has been an audio boom and world media rights co production hosted by me. Fleet Coupe is produced by audio booms. Rachel Jacobs Casey Georgie and Karen Bevan and and by Pascal's Hughes for world media rights we had additional production help from world media rights by Gerald Bingguo. And James Tindale. David even mcnabb is the series creative director and the executive producers for audio. Boom or Brendan Reagan and Stewart last. Thanks to audible and Park. Casts asked natural disasters for sponsoring this episode. Follow Mafia on spotify or subscribe on Apple podcasts. Stitcher or or wherever you find your favorite show

Vito Vito Genovese genovese Frank Costello Frank Castillo New York City Gigante Vincent Gigante genevieve American Mafia murder Chin Gigante Genovese America Joe Coffee Frank Stella Gambino Benito Needle Mussolini NYPD prime minister FBI Frank Castillo Frank
Did the US Mafia actually start in New Orleans?

Ridiculous History

30:31 min | 1 year ago

Did the US Mafia actually start in New Orleans?

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I'm no ben was that from dirty Harry <hes> that is a quote from Don Vito corleones in the Godfather. I yes famously famously portrayed by Clint Eastwood in the film's dirty working under his famous suited him Marlon Brando which is pretty fake name if you think about it being you know only uses their real name here in the United States. That's our good friend. In super-producer Casey peg rem Viva La Bouche Bouche. Wait wait wait. Did we see your name yet. I don't know okay well your goal. I am no okay that's true my name is that I am not a member of La Cosa Astra by I do enjoy a good mob flick from time to time in rewatching the Sopranos lately got my start doing it on an airplane where it was censored in a hilarious way <hes> so I watched one through three of season one in that fashion and then once the swears started getting back the mix. It was borderline shocking. Let me tell you these guys really love their FS and Jeff's. I still haven't watched sopranos all the way through kidding me. No wow it's really good. I know it holds watch last episode yet ends with a journey any song and a cut to black and that's not a spoiler can't be a spoiler. We have statutes established for this. I think it's it's passed the statute of limitations you know here's the thing about the statue of limitations spoilers. Yes it exists but are you still being a bit of a Schmuck. If you do it and don't prepare someone for something. They're enjoying the so much content out there in the world. That's weird. Are you saying that you're doing a complete. One eighty from your previously passionately completely opposite now listen been we were talking specifically about the ending of loss that I did not even actually we spoil I was accused of spoiling but the thing I said was not in fact a spoiler at all. I believe in that situation which was probably more than few years several years yeah in that situation. <hes> my position is that the creators of loss spoiled the the ending more than any virtually <hes> but I am huge fan of Mafia films a lot of crime films mafia films in particular and off air. We were kicking around this idea Casey fishy. What are some of your favorite crime films specifically organized crime? Cosa Nostra Mafia will been when you asked me about this. My mind was completely blank because the first thing that jumped in my head was Scorsese's casino which is far from obscure but is definitely one of my favorites along with Goodfellas but you know if you if you WANNA go a little deeper cut I would say checkout one of the films of jean-pierre Melville like <hes> loose circle rouge or maybe Bob with Lambert what about Las Samarai isn't that Melville and Alan Delong and <hes> yeah. That's a good one as well Casey on the case Film Edition Man. We should do that more often. That'd be cool yeah if it comes up yet. Just let us know Casey of the spirit moves as you. I don't ever want it to be something where you feel stressed like Oh crap. I have to come up with a movie homework. Who Cares about homework? What's it a crime film? You'll I I'll tell you what I watched. Recently was the French connection I'd never seen before. It is a a <hes> oh Gosh Winfried Ken film <hes> famously directed the exorcist and <hes> what else he direct it was really great to live in Dinello Dinello which I've not seen Oh he also did a trucking a movie about like what's it called Oh <hes> sorcerer sorcerer which has a tangerine dream that but <hes> the thing that was so cool about French connection is very naturalistic. It's just very like something about it. Makes you feel like you're really in the room. I think a lot of it was improvised. <hes> there's this incredible chase sequence where Gene Hackman is chasing a New York subway train. That's at the portion where it's an elevated track and he's in this car that he's commandeer. He's driving underneath the track and it's just such a dynamic cool bat as a chase sequence really really frenetic attic high energy film Robert Deniro. I thought did a good job taking the direct to`real position with a bronx tale because remember that one I never saw that actually it was it's it's it triggers some nostalgia for me which may be part of the reason. I liked it. Another old one that really enjoyed was the big heat with that's like nineteen fifties. I think the big heat is Fritz. Lang actually great German filmmaker that came over to the states after Gurbuz offered him the German film industry the whole thing yeah on a platter yeah and he thought maybe not any fled Germany that night. It's <hes> the big heat is pretty dark as fifty noirs go but it's it's worth a watch especially if it's something that that you've seen pop up on some film list and you've you've never quite gotten around to. I'd say it's Worth Watch. It's surprisingly violence for the time today. Show is about organized crime specifically the Mafia specifically the Italian American American mafia however it is not about New York City. No it's about another place entirely Ben that does have reputation for revelry. It does have a reputation for CDs a certain element but I've never in my life associated with organized crime until we started looking into this topic to place referred to often as the big easy Nolan's Nola or New Orleans or New Orleans. That's correct yeah New Orleans beautiful city home to almost a parallel parallel branch of American history. You know one thing that is confusing too. Many kids growing up in the United States outside of Louisiana is the concept of parishes rather than counties because Louisiana has parishes cherishes and that is a that is one of the many vestigial traditions carried down from its history as a French city of French territory or region and of course the city is home to so many amazing things that are influential not just in the U._S. but in the world entire and it is also home to the Mafia as we found out you see many of us myself included in the past would reasonably assume that the. Mafia the Italian American mafia specifically had its roots in the Big Apple New York City N._y._c. because this is where you see the godfather being set. This is where the five Greek crime families are based. I and this is where millions and millions of Italian immigrants originally came they first came to New York City Statue of Liberty Ellis Island the whole nine in reality though the first Italian American mafia came from New Orleans that that was the first one and it's also the site of the first major. Let's say maybe a conflict but mafia incident mafia murder yes it's true Ben and the thing is the actual like I on the list for immigration from Italy was places like Argentina and Brazil which I would never have really considered either <hes> because they had similar cultures to what the Italian immigrants were used to in in their homeland. <hes> New Orleans became a popular second choice <hes> yeah this was during the eighteen hundreds mainly because there was already so much trade with New Orleans and cities and regions in Brazil in Argentina. This is weird because it already began to trigger some xenophobia amongst people who were not Sicilian or not Italian. The New Orleans Times reported back in eighteen sixty nine. I mean that parts of the city were overrun with get this quote well known in notorious Sicilian murderers counterfeiters and burglars who in the last month have formed a sort of general co-partnership ship or Stock Company for the plunder disturbance of the city yikes. That's not the kind of elements you want coming into your city. I mean that's how you would describe a mafia if you would never heard of the Mafia before that's true but this is a time where this is very new right for for the U._S.. They didn't know about the the crime families in Italy. There was no internet. It wasn't like Super Common Knowledge. It's a very new thing that was kind of invading their community. <hes> and this sort of tension continues building between the average the squares the non-criminal citizens the authorities in New Orleans and the mafia it reaches <hes> ahead and had started described this earlier the first major incident accident right the first murder occurs on October fifteenth eighteen ninety there are probably other ones but as the first one we know about New Orleans Police Superintendent David Hennessy is assassinated basically murdered execution style and then the public outrage in hysteria breaks hundreds of Sicilians get arrested eventually nineteen or fingered for the crime but then they were acquitted yet and just before that happened just Sepe Esposito who was one of the first is known Sicilian Mafia members to come the United States he actually came to New York <hes> and this is after he and six if his cronies murdered the chancellor and a vice chancellor of a province in Sicily in addition to eleven <hes> very very influential and rich land owners and he was arrested in New Orleans in eighteen eighty one and then he was extradited to Italy and New Orleans becoming a hotbed of this kind of activity and it's sort of starting to bubble over with this incident that you're describing ben lead to some pretty serious consequences. Didn't it yeah text us to receive two five marketing tech sent the automated technology to your number consent not required to purchase message and data rates may apply membership automatically renews cancel anytime you know those ballet bar workouts that everybody's doing I'm professional dancer trainer Andrew Rogers and had belly bar studios around the world and I'm seeing crazy results but did you know that you can do them at home. You're probably thinking newsflash. I don't have a belly barred home. Guess what you don't need one. If you've you've got a chair countertop you have all you need you can stream my extend bar workouts at home for Free Extend Our helps you burn fat in calories while you sculpture legs. Lift your booty and tighten everything all without leaving the house but this is why I'm so excited today. I'm inviting you to tax me right now and see what kind of results you can get in a month with the free trial of the open fit- fitness APP you could lose up to ten pounds without spending a dime so text me now to get your thirty days of free extend bar workouts from open fit techs booty thirty to thirty thirty thirty. That's B. O.. T. Y.. Two thirty thirty thirty so on October Fifteenth Eighteen Ninety David Hennessy is murdered nineteen as hundreds words of Sicilians arrested nineteen go to trial but they're acquitted and this makes everyone else in the city say someone was bribing them. Someone was scaring the witnesses. So the citizens of New Orleans the squares I mentioned earlier Organiz Lynch mob and they kill Hill eleven of those nineteen people who got away two of them were hanged nine of them were shot and the other eight escaped. We're not sure what happened to them but this along with that criminal you're describing gives us a very different image of New Orleans. You know we we imagine the many other problems the city had at the time but we don't really think of imported Italian criminal enterprise you know we know that there has has been a fairly rich research on this especially by the Sicilian historian Salvator Lupo in his history of the Mafia I he talks about how you can trace the spread of the Mafia in the U._S.. Directly directly to Sicilian immigration to New Orleans and by the end of the nineteenth century New Orleans had the largest Sicilian population in the U._S.. Which surprised me I guess just always assumed it would have in New York? I would have to and apparently as well been one reason this was the case is the state of Louisiana was working with sugar planters to replace slave labor so that kind of immigration opening up that kind of immigration was part of that effort yes so the they've got booming agricultural business right. This is a world class port that alone is very attractive to the Mafia but if you throw in the disorganized city functions and the corrupt administration boom boom boom we've got a mafia moth heading toward an illicit flame very nice image there been <hes> and that flame ended up being the French quarter and Bourbon Street specifically so when you think of Bourbon Urban Street anyone that's been visited New Orleans you kind of think of it as being the trashy kind of touristy spot. That's not necessarily where you WANNA hit. If you're like kind of going for off the beaten path kind of stuff but the original verbs you went led to that reputation the original original Bourbon Street as kind of like you know established by some of these <hes> these Sicilian mobsters was a just absolute smorgasbord of things like jazz clubs speak easies restaurants Nudie bars strip clubs all that kind of stuff and it was all run and operated or at least largely people were getting cut that were members of this Mafia group Yeah Richard Campanella the author of Bourbon Street a history. Has It this way if he's. On the same page with us here because he says the didn't necessarily control all of Bourbon Street but they had this behind the scenes influential consortium imagine imagine it like this you don't own every house of ill repute on Bourbon Street but you do coordinate what they can charge for things and they do pay you a certain percentage and you help keep people's turf boundaries clear. It's that same thing you see like a show like sopranos where <hes> the mob kind of under bosses or some of the what do they call them like enforcers. I guess go door to door to businesses collecting collections what they call it and that means that the mob has a hand in offering protection to these businesses as long as they're giving a cut so they sort of set the tone I guess for the kind of businesses that are lucrative and that are going to generate enough money to get them. Keep them paid and keep them happy right yeah and this this is this is interesting way to look. We've got this quote from Campanella. He's describing the extent of Bourbon Street. You know he says thirteen blocks in the quarter will more block in another place half as residential half's commercial couple hundred businesses this this is where he gets to a specific example of Mafia involvement. He says quote you'd have bars some clubs restaurant and something completely unrelated like an electrical store and in the back rooms of many bars and clubs you might have a pinball machine that really was controlled by the mob they paid off the bartender to make sure only vague out the money there were these bookmakers poker machines illegal gambling meanwhile a legitimate bar was up and running and the bartenders might not have anything to do with the mobsters but make no mistake a number owners out mobsters so you could have like Casey could have <hes> you know crazy Casey's crawfish and jazz club and it could be totally legitimate and on the up and up but but there could be a back room where people go to gamble and it's just sort of like contracting out to the mob yeah and the mobsters get points on those poker games illegal or they're like out now controlled by the mom so for sure <hes> this is a little bit off topic but really funny. I was in Brooklyn recently and I went to the most Brooklyn Establishment I've ever been to my life. It was a combination laundromat. pinball emporium and bar probably controlled by the mom you think so when would assume well. We don't know if it's we also can't profile mobs. We have to be fair to organized. Crime could be Irish mob. That's also true. I don't know I'm just saying so. Where's the origin of the word mafia come from and mafia versus mob well? If we check the Handy Dandy last minute etymology dive mafia originally derived from a Sicilian adjective muff you so which roughly translated means swagger boldness or bravado got it and then the idea of the mob refers to literally like gang a group of individuals that have a common purpose. Let's look at that. That's interesting mafia versus mob so the Mafia is GonNa be Italian because as at Sicilian origin but the mob Bob can refer to other organized groups organized crime in general so like corrupt teamsters could be a mob so a mob is not necessarily the mafia but mob is also a synonym nickname for the Italian mafia interesting. It is interesting so the Mafia would specifically refer to this idea of La Cosa Nostra which <hes> something we've talked about off my plenty right this thing of ours America's the code. There's a gradient Campanella Campanella says from a proper noun to common noun so breaks it down saying there's Mafia with a capital m. and then there's the mob capital m. and then there's just no capital in mob and then there's mobsters there's organized organized crime and they're all these affiliated parties so he says it's challenging and one must be careful about the terminology and it's interesting because the government of Louisiana did not originally settle on mass ask immigration of Sicilians. They apparently tried to recruit people from China <hes> they tried to recruit people from Scandinavia Greece Portugal Spanish <hes> but the were able to entice Sicilian populations because imposed unification Sicily there were a ton of reasons for people to get out life just wasn't super great however as this is history show we have to admit there is a compelling reason that people think of the Mafia offiah in New York now and not New Orleans oh totally and that's because it's not near as prominent now because you know we we said that those first inklings of problems began in the eighteen hundreds by the eighteen seventies the metron nga crime family has already been established a New Orleans. They're collecting tributes there engaging racketeering prostitution extortion and so on but they're not the only game in town and fighting is already breaking down the eighteen eighties between the crime mm families they want to see who controls the waterfront right and we talked this is ultimately what led to <hes> Hennessy's death and then later the Lynch mob and it gave the mafia a lesson that they I've never forgot because insistently. There's a bit of a stereotype but in southern Italy overall at the time criminals could act without much regard for authorities or societies but now they learned okay there are limits to what we can get away with here and this a lot of people tell you that this is what set the Italian American mafia on its <hes> on its course of following strict rules against targeting law law enforcement outside of very very special circumstances. Don't want to keep quiet. Oh absolutely I mean it's a big deal even like these crime shows and movies when you kill policemen or somebody that's a member of law enforcement because that that is going to open up for retaliation and ultimately you want to keep things as copacetic as possible and as contained as possible so you can continue operating because at the end of the day it's a business it's they're not there to wreak mass havoc and terror in terrorized the community they actually won a kind of be loved a little bit and revered as some of these communities have shop keepers feel like they're kind of getting something for their money. They're paying these. <hes> collections sure it's a little bit of a pain but at the end of the day they're being unprotected from the enemy from the other you know crime families or from anyone that would be me rob them. 'cause you're part of the community right right. It's a it's almost a parallel branch of society sorta like how the was a will give out aid aid to victims of natural disasters. <hes> the mafia will also aid members of the community when it feels expedient and advantageous for business support for ridiculous history comes from our POWs at rocket mortgage by quicken. Loans home is so much more than a house. It's your own little slice of Heaven. That's why when you find the perfect place for you and your family getting a mortgage should not get in the way who knew haven't even came in slices. But let's imagine this how might feel to have an award winning team by your side through every step of the mortgage process will tell you it's awesome and it's exactly what you get with rocket mortgage by quicken loans. Their team of mortgage experts is obsessed with finding a better way which means that they're number. One goal is to make the home buying process smoother for you. Quicken loans has helped millions of Americans achieve their dream of homeownership and when you're ready to purchase a home of your dreams they can help you to that's why J. D. power hours ranked quicken loans highest in customer satisfaction for primary mortgage origination nine years in a row and highest in mortgage servicing for five years in a row to get started online today at rocket mortgage dot com slash history stuff equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states nmlsconsumeraccess.org L. S. consumeraccess dot org number thirty thirty for power with Information Visit J._D.. POWER DOT COM rocket mortgage by quicken loans push-button get mortgage this crazy part so we have all these Sicilians in the French quarter right and the French quarters not the biggest quarter so eventually say the nineteen thirties and forties a lot of Sicilians who live there begin to move out and of course being assist Cillian. It's silly that we have to say this but just to cover our bases. Being a Sicilian American. Obviously does not automatically make you a member of the mob of course not only the cool ones you gotta you gotTa be made. You have to be made man yeah. You have to be made so so it's weird because during the twentieth century the nineteen hundreds it seems like the Sicilian population was becoming more and more suburban and now they're only maybe a handful of <unk> Sicilian residents or people Sicilian heritage living in the French quarter that's right and not only that probably even fewer <hes> made men that are living in <hes> in in New Orleans and continuing to do any kind of Cosa Nostra associated business because you know the Mafia still exists it. It is a thing you definitely don't hear as much about it because it seems like because of F._B._i.. <hes> changes in in the way they can prosecute organized crime. It's a little bit more difficult to get way with like the Rico Act and such but you know I mean there's I'm sure they just kind of Da- pted and change the game a little bit and trying to stay a little bit more under the radar and we do have we do have at least one example right of a famous Sicilian mafioso from New Orleans. Yeah that's right Carlos Marcella kind of became the head Honcho <hes> in New Orleans organized crime <hes> he was born to Cillian family in Tunisia as name was Carlo Garo Garro Minna Corey. Oh we know him as Carlos little man limb are shallow us right and he immigrated directly to Louisiana in nineteen eleven and he turned to crime before he was even teenager and already began working in the French quarter which at that point was the city's little Italy right right <hes> he joined the trunk of family we mentioned earlier that they were also known as the black hand or Sicilian black hand and and he along with the rest of the crime family controlled operations at New Orleans docks so there were smuggling prostitution drug trafficking gambling and then of course as soon as prohibition kicks in you know that me Oh yeah money money money minute wait gang the secret speakeasy and all that stuff and that's that's the kind of thing he think about you can picture in New Orleans during that time these kind of smokey underground lounges with leg jazz singers and <hes> you know cocktails flowing and all that stuff and Marcelo SORTA has a story that could be an episode of its own you know he he got into an out of jail he had been arrested and beat wraps before for like. It's it's surprising I would be surprised if there was not already a film about his life but even today he is the subject of speculation and conspiracy theories and you'll hear that he he is one of the people who was part of the conversation that led to the assassination President J._F._K.. In November of nineteen sixty three months right because Robert Kennedy was a big proponent of bringing down Marcello hello because of the fact that he had done such good job of avoiding any kind of consequences to his career in organized crime in fact. I don't think it was until <hes> the age of like seventy two that he got convicted of any kind of felonies so yeah you're right Ben. Maybe he gets his own episode for sure. I love the conspiracy angle and the fact that Robert Yeah there's Jack Ruby tied up in all of this in Dallas and Lee Harvey Oswald all that stuff big central figure in the whole J._f._k.. Thing but that is for another day that is for a another day however no I propose that this counts is our Louisiana episode but has to WHO's definitely bally's Louisiana and Louisiana New Orleans have been <hes> on on my mind particular given the <music> threatening weather. That's coming through as this podcast is recorded and releases <hes>. We want to wish everybody out their best of luck. Stay safe. Stay Dry. Stay connected have have a plan. I've got some friends friends in New Orleans who've been keeping up-to-date until just a few days ago. They thought they might have to evacuate. Everybody was on the edge of their seat. So if you are listening from New Orleans please say hello to your fair metropolis. <hes> love it miss it always WANNA go check out the city and let us know some of your favorite New Orleans stories. You don't have to be from there to tell us. It doesn't have to be a huge historical moment. What's a good time? You had a New Orleans. I've only been the once in the weather was terrible. The whole time was rainy injury but I loved every second was so much fun. I really hope to go back again soon. Yeah you can write us all that stuff at ridiculous at iheartradio dot com you can check us out on our facebook group the ridiculous historians where you can interact with your other members. There was a really good when somebody posted posted a mean today <hes> it was very Meta mean because it was an image of Christopher Columbus crew and it says I don't steal memes I discover them. I saw that one. Yes you can also find us on instagram and twitter. I'm at Ben Olin Lynn H._F._S.. W on twitter <hes> you can see my various work non work adventures on instagram where I am at Ben Bullet. I don't really do the twitter but you can find me on instagram at how now Noah Brown big big thanks as always to Casey labouchere Pellagra big. Thanks to our friend of the show Christopher Haciendas we need to have on <hes>. It's been too long. It has been my favorite episodes that we do with Christopher thanks to Alex Williams who compose our theme Research Associate Gabe Luger interest for always being a boss and thanks to you Ben for not having me wacked yet America's the code. I am a legitimate businessman working in imports so I guess the best thing to say is not my department will see you next time bucks for more podcast from iheartradio visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite average shows I'm Dana Schwartz and I'm the host of noble blood a new history podcast from iheartradio in Aaron Minke that focuses on the stories of some of history's most fascinating royals the murdered the murderers and everyone in between.

New Orleans Mafia New York Casey labouchere Pellagra ben Louisiana Italy United States Sopranos New Orleans Times Cosa Nostra Mafia David Hennessy murder Iheartradio New Orleans Police vitamin SHOPPE DOT Atlanta vitamin SHOPPE La Cosa Astra
7: Don Vito and the Prime Minister (Part 1)

Mafia

33:04 min | 9 months ago

7: Don Vito and the Prime Minister (Part 1)

"In the nineteen thirties. New York's prominent mafia was under the control of Charles Lucky Luciano but when he was out of the picture picture there was one question who would take over power lucky Luciano us. You Know Jenner vs as his intimidate and you also use frank hostile. As his diplomatic Luciano would use intimidation. If he had to. But you preferred Stella's who would use intimidation. No one wanted the job more than genovese but it went to Castello who quickly became a prominent member of society. Frank Costello was unusual as a as a organized crime figure on Mafia figure. Whatever you WANNA call And that's he fashioned himself as a man gangster. He fashioned himself as a businessman Sometimes bordering on aristocracy and the would rather run with the council dukes and earls than they would capos two copies arrested costello styled himself self as the mafia prime minister but when push came to shove could he hold his own when it mattered against the Senate in the early nineteen fifties when a senator from the state of Tennessee was trying to make a mark trying to make get to get publicity Launched hearing his name was estes. Kefauver launched hearings into actually gambled big time gambling in the big cities. This is mafia frank. Castillo was born in Italy. He arrived in East Harlem with his parents. Nineteen hundred eighty four. His father renna grocery shop but Castillo did want to settle title for a life of poverty. His brother Edward got into the life of street crime. And Frankie soon followed suit Selwyn Elwin Rab is the author of five families. Castillo like so many other mobsters started out the young men with the teenager and then people people named Twenty Street gangs predatory free gangs robberies. Knock off a passing pedestrian. We thought had a good watch him or wallet. Wallet Thick Wallet. The shook down merchants a penny ante stuff castilla did well as Petty Crook but at age twenty four. He made one detrimental mistake. He was arrested for carrying a gun and he was sentenced to a year in jail. New York had a very tough gun. Lloyd at the time and still does call the Solan law which meant the long stretch in prison if you got arrested with a gunman so he decided Prudence was the better part heart of courage and avoiding sentences. So whatever he did he didn't do it a gun. He might've batted around people. But for the most part it was more gentlemanly. And the most civilized the jail time may have been short but the event would become important later in life. From that point forward Costello. Oh never carried a gun. Castillo realized that he needed to use his brains not bullets to get ahead of the pack like so many other young offices assist in one thousand nine hundred twenty s. They saw their opportunities when Prohibition came along somehow rather to serve the American public would good booze or bad booze. In fact he was so successful it was pretty slick and how importing booze transport and effectively getting into the clientele So so there was a lot of dough to be made. There were presumably respectable people involved in it and he learned business dealings that way With seven apart from being a goon he would never be Kinda Hitman goon muscle man type. Hayman's the gentleman gangster. He was never going to be Thuc. It was during the prohibition that Castillo teamed up with underworld hotshot Charles Lucky Luciano and his mismatched gang of up and comers and it was there that he met Vito genovese like Castillo Genovese had emigrated to the United States as a child and bidding gangs from a young age H.. Genovese was from Naples. Genoveva came over as a young man. to New York grew up in the slums of New York and and from the beginning he was involved. What then called streaking terrifying street gang violence ruled and he never changed? That was the way he started. That was the way he would end where he was always always believed that the gun of the night was more powerful than persuasion so his early schooling let character for the rest of his life. Genovese had also spent a year in prison for firearms but he still very much favored guns. He was colleagues with Luchino but was employed by the mob. Boss Joe Mess area where he mostly acted as an enforcer and executioner are they don't genovese was never anything but a homicidal maniac. I mean he was from the Really filing school the Mafia killings killing him were just daily business. It was like turning over a page in a book of no concern That was the way he decided he was going to get to the top. He was ruthless. He killed everybody even killed anybody who stood in his way. He came up with the violent element of crack. Skulls shook down merchants anyway to make a buck and he used his fists at gun or a knife hidden care. Nobody stood in his way Over his career Genovese was charged with shooting a man in Queens running down and killing a man in Brooklyn and beating down whoever mess arena asked him to. He always had a loaded revolver tucked into his belt. Thomas Repetto is the author of American Mafia. Well the people folded he worked with the were prone to violence office by definition and he understood that murders were bad for business and so a lot of times you can stop unnecessary murders breaking breaking kneecaps. Violence was his keynote Maria. Who is just a ritual with him of no? No concern had no conscience. Nobody would get in his way. Your daddy bumped you off or you had somebody kill kill you. And he had no compunction about killing anyway one example either romance he was killer he actually fell in love in his first wife died and he fell in love with cousin and he was enamored of her and she wouldn't get a divorce from her husband. What was vetoes? Solution didn't kill. The husband is simple and you marry the wife. And that's what he did so far as he was concerned that was his number one method of getting to the top and it did it. Worked for Genovese was not known for being intelligent but someone Luchino was good at recognizing people's Apple's talents. He soon employed Genovese as his personal hitman. Joke coffee is a former. NYPD officer Reno Geno visual host and a top by intimidation but also by being allowed to rise to the top by intimidation. And the guy hold on him to do that was what you know. Seattle lucky Luciano used Geno vs as intimidated and he knew being close to Luciano. which was he carry? The Seattle may have been looked very cultivated but he he needed hitman and when he needed hitman. We're the first people turn to Vito Genovese. Because he knew genovese evasive would carry it out or head to people. Strong guy people who had no compunction about it so and that's nt moved up in the organization So this is how we got established tablist any organization. Castilla was more adept at using his intelligence rather than violence to establish himself by the nineteen thirties. Frank Costello Stella was known to the underworld as King of the slots his illegal one armed. Bandit machines where grossing five hundred thousand dollars a day in New York. He had thousands of slot. Machines send condom machines you know. See and gambling casinos in America elsewhere. The World you drop a coin now the news card and if you hit the lucky the lucky sequence your enriched so he made millions of course wait to Luciano's pockets pocket to But it established him as a good businessman somebody who was known as earn not a guy who goes out. It has to commit hips or violent crimes so he was pretty powerful in that sense that he can make a lot of dough For what was considered white collar crime and he also went into vending machines. Things like that The main he didn't get his kickbacks from what other people didn't gambling or other Racketeering and he liked labor racketeering too so in that sense he was the more modern gangster Frank Castillo certified it. He was emblematic dressed. Well acted very courteously. No Lau voices. Deborah Verney concentration with the police. He avoided arrest. All he was interested. In was his outward appearance and making money and surviving Costello was the very a picture of the well to do gangster learning from Rothstein like his contemporaries. He wanted nothing more than to rub shoulders. With the upper establishment. The Frank Costello was unusual as a as a organized crime figure on Mafia figure. Whatever you WANNA call in that he fashioned ourselves as a non gangster? He fashioned himself as a businessman sometimes bordering on aristocracy and in. He would rather run with the council dukes and earls than they would capos copies restaurant that like to be remembered embiid as a member of the business community and an odd patron. That was his act. He mixed with politicians congressman journalists authors judges cops and city councillors and soon became known as the Prime Minister of the underworld with his connections. Costello developed a reputation as the boss who could bridge the legitimate world. And the mob. Frank Costello is called a prime minister because he was the title was given to him by the media on the newspapers and television. What have you and the reason for? That is that they'd like him lead. He's Lincoln ten to our English ancestry. In this country where the famous Prime Minister Winston Churchill and they made franchise fellow the American Winston Churchill. Racial Underworld Thomas Peto. That doesn't mean that he was the boss of bosses. There was no such position but he was first among equals and probably a little more equal than all the others He was the one who made the belittle connections for the mob. He was the one who gave the shrewd advice He was a very sharp thinker. The mob said he was the guy who could always figure the angles on every possible problem. So we was a man of great respect and the a Lotta respectable friends us. Both Castello Javale say became more tied in with Luchino during the Castilla Moreso war in nineteen thirty. The war between two different factions actions of the mob family. They all worked under it ultimately ended when Luchino had genovese kill boss Joe Mess area. Luchino soon took over the crime family. Genovese say became his underboss and Costello became his concilliatory his advisor Ronald Gould. Stock is a former mafia investigator. There were two models for mob bosses one of the the traditional that fly below the radar that recognized that they are criminals and they're only going to operate in the underworld there are others who want to move past the underworld be accepted by society. Be viewed as something different than just a thug looking Luciano use geno vs as his intimidate. You also used Frank Stella as his diplomat genevieve's who became the Arrow. Parenthood Luciana was not so shop pop. Loose Jaffe was real thought. Luciana would use intimidation. If he had to but it from peop- you preferred Stella's who would use intimidation for five years. Genovese served by lucky Luciano side doing his dirty work without asking any questions questions until one day an unexpected opportunity arose lucky. Lucina was convicted on prostitution charges and sent to prison for fifty years. We're lucky was convicted and sentenced to a long long prison term. The to- competing characters characters. Were Vito Genovese. and Frank Castillo Costello looked upon in his outward appearance the gentleman gangster and veto eight. Oh he was the homicide gangs the not the maniac. No one would mess with but they were both still profiting from all the rackets to the Luciano family. Had that left the question who would take over the family. Genovese was the underboss so it fell to him. Thomas Repetto General Bays was a ruthless individual not well liked and he. It was not a pleasant man to to work with or for everybody. Preferred Castello But you know business is business and one guy guy fails and the other guy appears to be succeeding because gentleman's was very big and drugs and making a lot of money whereas Estella one nothing to do with drugs. Then something happened. That left the choice obvious genovese had been involved in a murder in nineteen thirty four. The jury had been unable to prosecute but now there was is new evidence but suddenly somebody turned there was a murder in Brooklyn and the DA. At that time in Brooklyn managed to get a squealers who implicated Veto the victim had been one of genovese gangsters who had demanded to biggest share of a crooked card game but only years later just as is he was about to take control of the Luciano family. Did someone come forward veto saw that the game was up for a while New York and he decided the best thing to to do was to scream and go back to Italy where he was a citizen and he did so. He knew he wasn't going to lose any money because what he did was he still had his own. Crows rose working in New York and gambling and labor racketeering and shakedowns so he was doing pretty well in his new life life and he had corey is brought over the money to him in Italy. But what this did. It opened the door a frank. Still 'cause Franken Stella's chief rival. It's now in Italy and he couldn't run it and Castillo could get his information or whatever blessings from lucky Luciano who was imprisoned so Castillo is now in charge. George with genevieve. Say now out of the picture frank. Castillo became an even more powerful man. He was now the head of the Luchino family away. The largest mob family in America with more than four hundred soldiers beneath him costello easily field Lucina shoes shoes and continue to add billions of dollars to the family's fortunes Castelo had an urge to be accepted And he was unwilling just to be mobster like say veto Jennifer and the notion was that he could be in society. He could be viewed it as an intelligent person who participated in All the kinds of things that people who had grown generation generation within the United States were able to do with the added power behind him Castillo was able to seed influence further into the heights of society in in politics and law as far as politicians and judges in the as in tops and the corrupt world that we live in United States. Frank hostile was the man behind all of it. He didn't just know judges and and and politicians politicians he bought and he was the original corrupt. No question about that stock you meant that thousands and a big man was an absolute corrupt. Castillo was a great. Can't showed you how powerful how venomous the mafia could be. He corrupted judges. He corrupted politicians in effect for almost fifteen years in the late. Nineteen Thirties into the nineteen nineteen fifties. He ran the most powerful Democratic Party organization in New York. Something called Tammany Hall which had a headquarters Orman hat for you could run be appointed to convert cleared for Frank. Castillo may potential male candidates. The Democratic Party went to ASEAN hat in hand asking for his blessings because he was so powerful most important political figures that was his bag was it was a mayor who was elected twice as mayor of New York. Bill Dwyer a former. Da Who indebted the custodian that he what happened to ask ask for his endorsement. When the Mafia gets control of your political judicial system might say hey? What are they doing gambling? Who can't even prostitution running a political organization? They're deciding what bills passed deciding. How justices mean it out? Then you endanger and that's why Frank Castillo. Hello really even though we dressed. Well look civilized. Look cultivated was one of the most dangerous mafiosi in American history through through the late thirties and world war two costello continued to flourish as mob boss and build his reputation among mobsters and citizens alike after World War. Two Lucina was deported to Italy and mostly out of the picture now. There was no one who would dispute that. Stella was the real head of the crime family except Genovese came back into the picture and he finally brought back to the United States by an intrepid. TREPELO Army Sergeant. Who Against the advice orders of his superiors arrested Genovese the British army to help him his the Americas? I wouldn't Genovese was brought back to New York to face the murder charge. He had been arrested for but the years in Italy had only strengthened his resolve and and he had no intention of going to prison on January sixteenth. Nineteen forty five the witness against Genovese. Ed Peterloo Tampa complained that he was suffering from a gallstone problem. He was given pills from the guards. But the pills were not painkillers. Painkillers Then the inevitable happened in New York. The witness died in prison. They said he had swallowed wallet. The poison to kill eight horses without the witness there was no case against Genovese. He was acquitted and free to walk the streets of America once again now in the clear he was free to focus on securing his own position. In the Lucia no family the position boss but Castillo was thriving when Veda came back he really for a subtly challenged challenge. The Castillo Costello is in control. 'cause he was so influential in politics and in judicial system blesses his knee. Other families came to him. They wanted a favor and the courts or they went to the political savings so powerful so he was looked upon the most respected and probably probably one of the top leaders. New York veto resent the veto is back veto. Fill that he has lost out then he should get the boss of bucks that have made while he was gone to should come to him. Jennifer was intimidated by Costello's intelligence in. No the costal could get words what he could only get out of a gun and he was jealous of that. The bottom line is the green eyed monster Jellison. Perry Kostelic seemed to have the approval of everyone and was very popular but Genovese say noticed. Something Castillo preferred to deal only with the big guys those at the top but he ignored the little guys Joe. coffey said that this was a mistake. Genovese could readily exploit exploit frank. Hostile neglected the troops. Frank hostile only concern themselves with the couples breath and the Capos Tynan for capita. There were in charge. Should each individual set up like a paramilitary organization the mop the captains were the people who answered to the conceal the area near on the boss the boss and the Cappos as low as has thought it would go. He wouldn't and deal with. It did not like mixing with the peasants genovise. He knew that the people real underlings the Doug stiles thanks. bye-bye donors the thieves rapists. Whatever you WANNA call them when listen to have members of crows have been loyal cruise or these units that work within each family complaint? They've been neglected. That Castillo didn't favor them. So when they were big bucks to make gave him to other cruise Cruzi considerable loyalty. This resentment was Genovese as opportunity to begin. Undermining Castillo's leadership wall Castillo wined and dined with America's elites. He had forgotten to pay the respect deserved to the criminals who enabled his lifestyle. Frank Frank Castillo was starting to believe his own myth. Everybody knew the Genovese wanted Franks job but he could take the job. The other bosses one of allowed that as long as frank was riding high frank was the political fix. Frank had the connections. Genovese did not have the connections. Genovese was known as a drug dealer and he was a target of the federal government home. What does he do yes to buy the little bit of his time? He can't come in and start a massacre so what he does begins to make sure. He strong that his rackets doc and beginning to produce money so he money and he has soldiers and he has hidden in case there's a real showdown not only was Castillo popular. But but his position as a boss and the new mafia structure under Luciano meant that Javale say couldn't just kill Costello he would need permission from other Mombasa's so genovese waited hoping Costello would make a wrong move and he wouldn't have to wait long. The first big exposure that there might be organized crime unit known as the Mafia occurred in the early nineteen fifty s when senator from the state the tendency was trying to make a mark trying to get some not get some publicity Launched hearing his name was estes. Kefauver hearings things impact gambling. Big Time gambling in the big cities. ESTES KIEF of her an ambitious senator decided to look into the world of crime and and launched a series of public hearings. KIEF ever called on more than six hundred gangsters underworld figures politicians and policemen to testify justify before the Senate Steve pomerantz is a former assistant director of the FBI. I remember the Kief over investigations. I was young ver-very young lad and I'm actually watching those and and and it was a real revelation That we began to see that there was this these people among us WHO criminals? Who Very well organized and Very deliberate in what in our activities and controlled a great great deal of the criminal activity in this country. Keefer hearings were We're we're we're actually televised and the American public and our leaders became came aware that we had a problem that existed in this country. Actually for very long time and largely been underground and not not not visible and the key Falvo hearings exposed who they were To some extent what what what they were doing and the magnitude and harm that they were they were causing American society people began to develop a an interest in in in doing something about it. The key of her hearings as they were called were aired on television. It brought a lot of public attention to the underworld and attention to the fact that the law enforcement wasn't doing anything about these he's criminals. Many gangsters were called on as witnesses but refused to say anything. Except Frank Costello You know it's interesting. Seeing that Frank Costello the gangster On television that I think the reaction to Frank Costello the gangster Probably as much like the reaction to John Gotti and I don't think it changed over time. People are clearly concerned about having somebody like that and and and I remember people saying well if he's a gangster like that why isn't he in jail. What's the problem here on the other hand? There's a certain attraction certain Glamour Lamour that was attached to Costello and again Through the years attached itself to many of these organized crime figures kind of Of a Hollywood persona but I think it's fair to say that you know your average responsible. American was more concerned than they were attracted attracted to Frank Costello Costello's still craved credibility from the political world and thought that having friends in high places would mean he would get through. The hearings brings with his pride intact. The event built him as the most influential underworld leader in America and he became the star attraction action. Now all the other mobsters were subpoenaed to testify took the fifth amendment. Said nothing or the flight. The subpoenas hateful at Hickam on the witness stand and come out as a gentleman as a real businessman that he paid his taxes stuff like that and then he had this kind of outlook or outward appearance that he wasn't look like enough blue likelihood Michael and he went before the committee and it was embarrassing. The camera crews were only allowed to feature Costello's hands hands. His testimony became known as the hand ballet. He would only allow hands to be photographed. So you had this picture of his hands jumping around Gravelly gravelly voice appearing on TV without the face made him look terrible also for the spotlight on them and the irs went after him in the Justice Department. Now in the spotlight do something. Whenever the questions about his criminal activities got tough for to near the Knuckle Costello would rub his poems together together? Tighten his fingers grip a glass of water drum on the table in front of him or crumple and tear pieces of paper. What what happened is what he was summoned before the Father Committee of the United States Senate? He assumed that he could get through the hearings successfully partly because because he had political friends partly because charming guy and he was essentially saying. I'm just GAM- gambling. Kind of fool himself toward the end Castillo was asked if he had ever done anything that would make him a good citizen One of the questions. September stick type style. So what have you done for your timeshare paraphrase of course and he said I pay my tax and that was his answer now in his mind he thought that was enough Joining the Marine Corps. I pay my taxes. Everybody pays taxes. They're working on. That was his philosophy. That was frank's right coastal. But he was the original superstar made by television. The questions were more rigorous than he had expected and at some point Costello simply walked out of the hearing refusing to answer any more questions from the public exposure and embarrassing answers and destroyed some of Castillo's public credibility and he left the Kief of her committee hearings as the justice. Department's number one target because a lot of trouble. The federal government at the same time. The mob was Madam. Once once he failed to fall river everybody went after him And he was indicted for tax evasion. He was convicted. He was the data for lying to Congress And as I say when you're the prime minister the man who worked miracles and all of a sudden you fall all of your horse and fallen your face all kinds of difficulties. You are not prime minister anymore. In one move Costello had lost his popularity with the elite with the mob and had gotten himself arrested. But for one monster Costello's failure was good news. Vito Genovese say In the next episode Genoveva began to take the steps he needed to assassinate Costello and it would start with more assassinations SASSA nations to anesthesia. It'd become a problem It was too much heat on because you're in the situation that transpired after that went interference with the Momma activities. He had to go and Castillo's exposure on television was just the beginning. The whole mom was was about to be exposed thanks to genovese blackened was more important not so much the country for the FBI all of a sudden everything that they had been saying that there was no national organization that crime was essentially local and it was the local law enforcement to deal with King obviously incorrect the FBI. I mean there was a moment where there was absolutely patently clear that they had a role to do that they had not performing opposite. This has been an audio boom and world meteorites media rights co-production hosted by me fleet cooper. It is produced by audio booms. Rachel Jacobs Casey Georgie and Karen Bevan and by Pascal's huge huge for world media rights we had additional production help from world meteorites by Gerald's Benguela and James Tindale. David mcnabb is the series as creative director and the executive producers. audio boom are Brendan Regan and Stewart last. Follow Mafia on spotify or subscribe on Apple podcasts. Awesome stitcher or wherever you find your favorite shows.

Castillo Genovese Frank Castillo Costello Frank Frank Castillo Frank Costello Stella New York Charles Lucky Luciano Costello Americas Mafia Italy United States Castello Javale Luchino prime minister Senate murder castilla Luchino East Harlem Thomas Repetto
Deep Dive: The growing influence of the Gojek mafia

Startup Snapshot

18:30 min | 4 months ago

Deep Dive: The growing influence of the Gojek mafia

"In this episode is brought to you by Digital Ocean. The developer cloud the helps millions of developers easily build test manage and skill applications of any size more than a bit but first on with the show. Hello and welcome to deep dive on Startup. Snapshot a technician. Podcast mining's net and today we're going to be talking about the go. Jack Mafia just last week an Indonesian education tech startup called Zenith's announced it would be providing free lessons on KGO JACKS APP since schools have been suspended and students have had to learn from home because of covered nineteen. What's interesting is that Genius Chief Executive Officer. Ruhanga used to be go. Jags chief operating officer and head of international expansion's and he's just one of many former employees at Goja cliff since left. The RIDE HAILING UNICORN. Take a leadership positions in other companies. Yeah I think the first one is Ron Manga or Hawaii. The former Chief Operating Officer of Go Jack. He John Deere's technician highly Obama with the story. And then I also saw a bunch of people that coming from Surfaced that actually has been like many mice by a go check weakest goal life. They are that you are and windy night. Rafi which is the sort of CO founder of life that you are now building. A property company caught being home and Windy Najafi. Ashby and running a FINTECH company was. I went to nine for several years and literacy it will mean for together which is also part of go live and now she's running a DC direct-to-consumer startup base and there is also listener. Undergrad also from life. Now here's running out and there are people. Like Mahatma Rescue Tidy Idiots running for profit and non former executive of food which is now heading startup cost. Boy There's also Santoso former. Vp OF TECHNOLOGY WHO since founded Education Star being our academy this theater Jakubowski. Who was chief? Marketing Officer GO JACK AND LEFT LAUNCH. A marketing firm called we are not machines. Then this Michelangelo Moran One of Co Founders and the guy who created the original go Jack Logo. He quit sixteen started recording studio and Music School in Bali. We might have missed out on naming a few more but the point is that's a hell of an Exco Tech Mafia and it's not the first of its kind. The use of the term mafia like this was popularized by Fortune magazine in two thousand and seven in an article about pay pal alumni the roster of the People Amaafuza included the likes of Elon. Musk peter the'll and Reid Hoffman. People considered by many in Silicon Valley to be tech magnets and visionaries actually good. It was the brainchild of a couple of people who came from the Sonora Mafia. I wrote the article in Metals and sixteen and then in that Article Talk About Sappho People Like Ninety Mockery and Caffeine Louis and Kathleen. He Intra which is now the head of food which is the key member of good check at the end right now and before that they all work in a Gel aura and I call them mafia what this the emergence of such mafias indicates about the state of Markets Tech Ecosystem. Yeah I believe starbuck or system is like cycles of wave so in my opinion the wave of innovation startup ecosystem is when rocket Internet. Which is Laura Lozada in either coming to Indonesia And then the first way is already like coming down and we saw the rise of the second way into fifteen and go check and that's why right now it's natural for go. Check to like producing a lot of people a lot of enterpreneurs that now becoming the mafia I n Aby after that we will see a neither cycle of ways again and again and it indicates in my opinion Stasi stem of start up. Initia- is Become mature okay so What what kind of impact have they been making Like are all of these companies that the left go. Jack Kennedy founded themselves or have some of them Joined other companies to take leadership roles. Yeah some of it like you. Are we in the yellow me and we snow? They're building their own companies from scratch. So I think the impact will be really huge into education ecosystem because they build new companies that tackle assault on problem. That haven't been tackled by lot of people in the past Suggest that you there is focusing on property and windy focusing on phen- tag and you'll be focusing on like cosmetic products in DC recent tackling problems in human resources and we also see a company like Zinnias already established in the past and cannot get a significant growth until up until now after more than ten years and suddenly like former graduates. Your is coming in this year. I think it's a good indication for the startup ecosystem in Indonesia after the break. We'll take a look zenith's and how ruins and checks influence has impacted the company but first a word from our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Digital Ocean the cloud provider that makes it easy for startups to deploy and scale modern web applications with no billing surprises plus digital ocean's community provides over two thousand oriels to help you stay up to date on the latest open source software languages and frameworks. Let's see what some people online have to say about it. Here's a review software developer butter shake s says digital ocean is the best one of the best cloud services. I have ever met Digital Ocean supports a lot of services. I always use it to host my websites. It's cheaper than any other service. I have ever used well there. You have it if you want to get started on digital ocean for free go to do dot co slash deep dive. That'S D. O. Dot Co slash deep dive now back to the show. Welcome back deep dive where we're talking about the GOJIC mafia particularly about Ruan Monga who was previously a senior executive at Gojic and recently took the chief executive role at an Indonesian. Ed Tech Startup called genius. Here's was taken Asia's I did the summer before. Like zinnias is the bliss in two thousand four. Actually starting their business as a private tutoring off-line flying prefatory And Daddy at thousand seven days. Start Moving into recording the session when they're teaching Any kind of lessons in the K. Twelve mccollum in Indonesia and at the time Internet is not really So they decided to sell the video via DVD so with only like ten thousand US dollar as a capital start their business and then at around two thousand eleven or two thousand twelve. Start to move in to put the video in to a online platform despite having been around for over fifteen years to start up wasn't going fast enough. Zine which was founded in two thousand and four has eleven point eight million registered users comparatively ruin grew which was founded in twenty fourteen has fifteen million users so zenith's founder subbed up. Yes decided to go out and raise funds to speed up the company's growth. That's when he met Ruan Monga user one as I was after leaving after leaving Jack I was thinking about my third startup and during that time I was also investing and actually ended up meeting. Sopped up through my wife and that instruction led to cursing learning about his vision for writer or enlightening Asia. Accelerating learning outcomes through technology and it was just a really exciting vision and so that was when I contributed to their fundraising in made a small investment without any idea out become the CEO. But then you know we might investments. I like to you know. Just help out consult and through. That conversation I realized that you know he's he. He needs some help. Let's for building platform especially on the business side. And so we are. We decided that it made sense for me to come on. Ceo and for him to be also SIE Yoko. Ceos are the rage these days. So so you know. He's the chief education officer on the Chief Executive Officer. And you know I'm here to help craft the business strategy. The execution and his focus is really on making sure that our education which is is sound strong still could use it often obviously is a very different business. Compared to go jack go check. The market is very transactional. So everyone doing a checked shirt and doing hard Smoking food are maybe right Haley. Something like that so everything that he created in go check every operational thing that he has to maintaining good check is national but in Zinnias is. Actually you want to encourage people to confess. Sometimes it's not really cheap amount of money but If they already like fasting that kind of Miami he has to Daddy for contents has today Delhi for product that really Magnum happy during an engagement platform. Or you know. Our transaction happens once every six months or once every year when a parent says whereas teach students says I want to buy this for the next x months so I can learn so it's not particularly militant faction rock rising. Linda moments were supportive learning with their loving right so very different problems. So the the the the key go. Jack is like pushing transaction but the kings in es is like maintaining the retention of the people maintain. Keep them happy with the product. Giving them happy with the video. Something like that. It's easier said than done. But how do you keep customers? Happy how do you identify? What satisfies or frustrates them? That's where ruins expertise comes in consulting you have to Rambo your understanding of what drives of business which means that you have to get smart fast yesterday. Chief almost expert leg status fast. Not Saying that. I'm an expert right along way. Still learning but You have to wrap up that understanding and then you have to very quickly rate things down through another Zinke into rb problems and so that's so. How's he been doing so far with that? How successful has been with keeping customers? Seniors happy this question that I also asked him Matt objectively. It's still early so he just let the Zinnias several months actually but he already to a very drastic booth which is make the plot from free for all users right. Well Okay Yeah I. He said that it's his way to open access for all people. It's actually the different way to say something like we want to gain market share to increase the number of people that use our platform use our product. Watch our video or something like that but on the other hand the strategy make the platform free also enabled the company because they get more users so they get more data they can analyze more insight from them. Like okay these feed your is. Make people happy okay. This kind of features is make people angry. Something like death before forty percent of the user. The students that washed finished it. Then you're able to improve the video and now seventy percent fish and that means that they love it if a burglar comes on at four and skits that means got work. If they're rewind used a confusing so I think right now he's still in the process to tweak the product tweak the business but unfortunately we faced a ferry heart condition for everyone right now I don't know whether he has to take a different approach. A while now or not. But I think his underway aside from his own skills that he's honed over. The years ruin also brings his wealth of connections and network to use it serious. A rounded race in February for instance was led by Northstar group which had also previously invested in. Go Jack of course. There's also the fact that runs ex-boss not Muqarram is now Indonesia's minister of Education and culture. Yeah I think right now. He has a very good connection to the government. This is the same thing with your want to because the CEO is now the adviser for residents. I think it's very interesting year. Two Thousand Twenty. It's very interesting year for education technology startup. So what's next what's next for us in? Mongo Rohani's giving me like these that he doesn't want to focus on like only giving a one way video so not unlike put video online and the Internet and let people watching the video and answer the questions and something like that but he also won the two way communication between students and teachers that maybe can be nabbed by Time Ken. Off Live streaming service. We want to get into new verticals. Now are Tilt till date. Our focus has been on the reported content version right A. and from recorded between the student and the technology we do want to add. Were more of a human element to the experience Because there are studies out there that show that having assisted or human human oriented three rate with a teacher tutor improve learning out whether hunts influence on seniors will lead to exponential growth remains to be seen but there are also similarities between genius and Jack Situations that Ron might be well positioned to tackle for one. They're both facing up against competitors who are significantly larger and better funded than them at Ding learning. Maybe from his experience at go check with this he has to compete with a startup. That half logic funding I think have a certain strategies to doing that and I very interested to see what strategy that Huey like implemented engineer. Well I guess we'll have to wait and see the next for Seniors. And whether they can take on grew in whether they'll be able to sustain the runway now that they're providing it for free. Yes that's degration. Yeah Great. Thanks so much idea. Thank you for more stories like this one. Visit TECH IN DOT Asia Slash sub. Where you'll get access to all leaders in depth news on the Asian tech and startup ecosystem. You can also subscribe to this where we're publishing deep dive episodes every other week. If you want to reach out to us you can email podcast at ECHINACEA dot com or comment wherever you're listening from. I'm always happy to hear from you. That's all this week. Special thanks to the. Id Breath Dhamma for joining me in a big thanks to our sponsor dissed for sponsoring this. Podcast you can check out its website and the show notes till next time. My Name's NAP and I'll see you in a couple of weeks.

Indonesia Digital Ocean CEO Zenith Genius Chief Executive Officer Jack Mafia chief operating officer and he Ruan Monga Chief Operating Officer Jack Exco Tech Mafia technician developer Asia John Deere Co Founders Ruhanga Jack Kennedy Obama Fortune magazine
9: Joe Valachi (Part 1)

Mafia

30:33 min | 8 months ago

9: Joe Valachi (Part 1)

"For years the Mafia was able to operate outside of the law and the FBI didn't care now. The for one who had taken advantage of American war to federal investigators could law that was written wiretapping and bugs who simply this the federal or save intercept but not disclose so the idea simply was pulled. Go ahead getting a lot of taps and bugs found a lot about the mafia but Giovanni Laci was the first mobster to break Omerta the mafia strict code of silence. He revealed the true meaning of the phrase La Cosa Nostra and gave the police. The inside scoop on how. The American mafia was organized and controlled. The latch was it was the first time anyone could pull back the Kurt paint the canvas. What it was like I think what the LACI did was explained? What the F. B. I. had and didn't know and so the FBI had tapes? They had relationships between individuals. They hit terms. They had words in both English and Italian that they didn't understand and in the LACI was able to make sense out of all of that the laci testimony would force the feds into action and the mob into retaliation Asian. Joe Is not very smart and his bosses. In the new channel family and later the Geno VI's family recognized dia slips and he was also a person who was better. This is mafia in June nineteen sixty two in Atlanta Federal Penitentiary Don. Vito genovese sat in his cell. After waiting. Nearly twenty years to become head of this crime family he had finally done it only to be imprisoned. The Mafia boss had been sentenced to fifteen years for drug trafficking advocating but many believe he had been convicted under mysterious circumstances including Genoveva himself and he was desperate to get the real the story so when Rab is the author of five families many people thought of tainted conviction because major evidence against him who was one individual person claimed he had been a corey between the narcotics base in east and also with Genovese. Why would he even engage in conversation with them especially somebody who is paranoid? Genovese wants to do anything like that. And distrustful distrustful imprisoned along with him was fifty eight-year-old Jove Lachey Genovese family soldier. Ronald Goldstock is a former. FBI The agent. A soldiers didn't have a job. They had an opportunity They can be a Labor racketeer. They can be an expert in a particular industry straight and the people that work with him are known as mob associate and the end result. Is that a soldier. makes makes money then passes some of the money up to Speier's Kappa when the other boss the boss The better a soldier is the more likely is to be promoted. The LACI had the same conviction in sentences genovese and the two had been both working for the same family after a time the two became cellmates but even before that they had a long history. Joe Went unpack long time with Vito. He's one of those crews so they knew each other very well and it always been dependent upon the vetoes goodwill and he always thought he vetos good graces just to hear they wind up together in Atlanta pen and veto of course is quoted as a big monster he has people surrounding them. They take care of your food is job ought to do anything. Joe Is an another element. Joe Has really work. And he's no big shot but data was a homicidal title maniac. A paranoid trusted nobody and for some reason he got suspicious that that the LACI was a rat one morning Lahtchi was met with surprise Don. Vito genovese approached him and kissed him on both cheeks but rather than taking it as a sign of affection lachey feared for his life. Joe Recognize the mainly the kiss of death for no reason. He bestowed dude bus his cheek. Joe Knew What this man committee was now going to be killed one way or the other beal was out to get him and he had sent a message. In all likelihood it was police corruption that played a part in Vesey's conviction but he had still become. I'm convinced that the LACI was responsible then va Laci was sure the kiss of death meant Genovese had marked him as a dead man. Even in prison genovese reaches were far and wide. A hit could come at any time from anywhere but what had the Laci he done to earn a special hit contract. Nothing yet. The holidays are here. This you give yourself a gift of extra money in your pocket. Doc It pay off your credit card balances and save with a credit card consolidation loan from light stream. 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M. dot com forward slash mafia subject to credit approval rating zero point five zero percent auto pay discount terms and conditions apply and offers are subject to change without notice visit light stream dot com forward slash mafia for more information talk Jove lachey joined Costra in nineteen thirty. His family came over to New York from Naples in the nineteen hundreds. They had seventeen children and Joe was one of only six survived. By the time he was eighteen va laci was the driver of notorious. aureus gang. Called the minute men. A gang of petty robbers but Lachey was convicted of theft and sent to the infamous sing. Sing prison inside the prison. The LACI made friends with a gangster named Allesandro. Valero it was then that the Laci I learned about the organization known as look goes no strive and the LACI wanted to be a part of it. Douglas Valentine is a historian and journalist and he was a a a Ma a member of the mafia I think since one thousand nine hundred thirty very early and he certainly was greeting. Joe Is not very smart and his bosses in the Luchino family later the family recognized this and he was also on a person who was better his resolve only strengthened when he left prison to find and his old gang had replaced him volonte started as a Mafia soldier in the Lucchese family former. NYPD officer Joe Coffee explained the soldiers were usually given the work. No one else wanted to do soldiers in a mob or wannabes. They start out as the only way to get. It is component. That mom's you stopped at a low level and just stop. Doing this started as a runner for Gammel or pick up and fullone shot or you'd be Tom Guy Who hijacked cerro plans Kennedy Apple and become a low level gangster then you graduate and either become an arena or hitman now either way either. Pat Make a lot of money or a hitman get you made uh contrary to pollute believe. You don't have the WACK- somebody to get mad. If you are in them a lot of money you have a scheme that you're working as a lot of money and you get mad. Based on past experience. The LACI became a driver for one of new. York's top mafia gangs led by Salvatore Maranzano but soon modern Zano was locked in a bloody power struggle with his rival. Jonas Ariya the struggle ended in the death of macerata and VILOCCI became one of modern Arizona's bodyguards until Zano himself was executed by Lucky Luciano. Luciano was the biggest gangster of of all time he had a central organization and you pretty intelligent. He was pretty sharp guy. Mostly I don't like being a boss Josh Luciano light calling the shots and he was He was in his time a guy who could the the man respect cost the United States I e the meaning he called in Atlantic City in Nineteen thirty-one. Everybody responded to some guys will never met met him said this is a year and they came they listened and they formed the commissioners. We know today. I mean the guy was good. The LACI was folded into the Luchino family continuing his work as a soldier and continued to be a soldier within the mafia organizational structure There are Family bosses and dead beneath them. There are Under bosses. Despite the fact that in the nineteen fifties LACI had been in the Mafia for over twenty years. He was still just a button. Man and a crew. He had risen very far Va.. LACI had attained his goal of being a made man in the mafia but he hadn't gotten any further than that. It seemed seemed as though the LACI was constantly being passed over for promotions Vinnie. Moral had been Velocities protege but he had been promoted above Lachey and Vinnie. Moro and Frank Caruso kept they suppressed the LACI. They let him have a couple of Juke boxes that he was able to make money from and because they officially just let him. Have those juke boxes to make money. He was in a sense forced into drug business. Okay very few people feel you an inclination to be a drug trafficker in the Mafia. You're generally forced into that. Business at Valencia was a person who was forced through economic reasons of his bosses into into drug trafficking and he. He sold narcotics in Harlem. The drug trade was a less desirable charge among the mafia rackets. It was easier to get caught and soon enough. Malaysia was arrested the latch he had a reputation for getting busted or arrested for crimes. And that's what happened in always involved in minor narcotic steals. You know he was never really a big importer or supplier or the brains behind anything thing so. He got arrested by the Narcotics Bureau in America and the sentence to about fifteen years. It wasn't as usual second rate a second rate the former Dealing with an important people like Vito Genovese who coincidentally was in separate narcotic frag wrap at the same time in one of the darkest toughest institutions known as the Atlanta Penitentiary Federal Penitentiary where only the toughest characters the wind up June twenty second nineteen sixty two inside Atlanta penitentiary. It had been several days since lachey latching received the kiss of death is nerves. Were wearing thin. He sat in the prison yard as far from other inmates as possible. One of them might be a hired. It in the far corner of the yard to prison guards were talking to each other then something caught. The LACI by the gym equipment was being used by a lone prisoner and the man was staring directly at him he started towards the LACI allowed. The man was slowly coming in closer and he saw believe will would've Beatles hit out to get him it's coming for and he picked up a pipe dream. Pipe prison rats. They believe a deadly. The weapon lying around the construction site of Joe is quickly picked up the pipe and he killed the person we thought was designated Hitman. Turn Daddy who's long as once again. Joe Was a bit of a Bumbler to kill the ruling guy. Killed in prison just happened to be walking by the vouches victim was a man named John. Joseph South he was a small time crook and he had no mafia connections. Now he's really up against it because the head of the bench would have been a murder rap so he'd have another twenty or thirty years he's never got out of prison and if he ever did if he beat the rap Fito it would get rid of imprison so here. He is here he is. He's track there's no way out for the LACI had killed the wrong person and and now on top of his narcotics conviction he was facing a life sentence for murder. The situation was grave for the LACI but it was a great great opportunity for someone else. Attorney General. Robert Kennedy was hell bent on taking down organized crime since his election in nineteen eighteen. Sixty one but Kennedy and his staff had been struggling to penetrate the criminal underworld the Appalachian Meeting where over one hundred mobsters. There's have been caught by. Police had revealed to the public that the mafia was very real indeed but the FBI still had made little moves forward. And so they began a program of wiretapping and Trying to determine who occupied various positions and how the organization was structured Kennedy comes in nineteen sixty s the Attorney General John Kennedy And reinvigorates the organized crime and racketeering section. Now for the first time they might have found someone from the inside. Who could be persuaded into talk? Suddenly here comes this serendipitous win for the stupid master. Who can tell of at least what it's liked to be in the trenches for the mob? I he become removed. Feels he knew about all these things. It was the first time anyone could pull back the curtain or paint the canvas. What it was like so he was a tremendous star? Here was this guy did come out of nowhere. It's unknown whether the FBI offered the Laci the choice or if the LACI decided it on his own but they gave the LACI deal if he would disclose would he knew publicly. He wouldn't have to spend his life behind bars. ooh I spend all day talking about and researching the Mafia with all the money laundering and hit jobs. So sometimes uh-huh I need a break from all of that. My go-to mental pallet cleanser is best. Veen's it's a game you can play on your phone but it's casual not intense intense meaning that anyone can play no matter. Your skill were age and it's not mindless at all it's challenging. There are so many characters was it doesn't get old and their monthly updates with new levels and events and I can play it no matter how much time I have I can pull out best fiends whether sure I have hours on a stakeout or ten minutes on the subway. That's right it works underground. What you do is match colored blocks and the different colors give different bugs power ups abilities and you need to figure out which ones are the best for each level like putting together the best gang thanks for the job and there are so many levels that are added every week it keeps me engaged? You can see a rink against your friends to and let's just say I'm making my way up the ladder. Those on the top should watch their backs. Engage your brain with fun. Puzzles collect tons of cute characters. Trust me with over one hundred million downloads. This five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must play download best free on the apple APP store or Google play. That's friends without the our best scenes July seventeenth nineteen nineteen sixty. Two in the dead of night jove Lachey was awoken in his cell lock. The door was slowly being opened from the outside outside. But it wasn't hitmen. It was the feds for his protection. They they would be taking him out of Atlanta. The LACI was given the cover of Joseph de Marcona and flown to Westchester County. Jail New York if put into solitary confinement gave the gave them opportunity to things. And what's his only opt. Got To become a rat so he sends word to the Federal Authority that is willing to sink come canary. The LACI was put to intense questioning I. At the Bureau of narcotics they begin interviewing and and the first not to forthcoming nothing. Really Good Steve. pomerantz is a former assistant director at the FBI but in the process of reform. Fom of telling these things to the bureau of narcotics. Bobby Kennedy became aware of his potential as in other people in the Justice Department and as a person who could publicize how big and how important the mafia was at that point Aw the FBI stepped in and took over LACI. Despite his willingness to cooperate the LACI proved to be hard to crack back and FBI director. Herbert Hoover was desperate for information. After years of inaction against the mom going so far as to claim they didn't exist is bureau was facing a lot of criticism over his interest in him now. Hoover for a long time had taken advantage of American Newark. The Federal Government estimates could Florida was written by wiretapping and And bugs simply this. The federal law said to intercept but not disclose so the idea simply was the had been getting a lot of taps and bugs dogs found a lot about the mafia putative mafia members or alleged mafia members but he could never publicly disclose that information but he wasn't dealing with it but he was aliens that information. Try warm things a batch and he sent moves key inquisitors Hoover's Hoover's into an FBI agent James P Flint to get the LACI to open up. Flynn was a veteran interrogator. Flynn came in and he was tough off. He told me the. Tell us what we want to know or your value lesson. There's no deal involved and election realize he had stopped talking the truth. Ruth was that the F. B. I.. Had A lot of pieces of information semi legal wiretaps had picked up and phrases. That were all but unintelligible. Flynn was intrigued by one phrase in particular many suspected mafioso referred to themselves as Cosa Nostra but the FBI did know what the saying being mentor actually referred to to get the LACI to loosen his tongue. Flynn decided to use the art of deception. They weren't show. What a man did? I mean our house that means our place and a Flynn bluffed Vlach said why are we all about cozumel the most in using the phrase the laci assumed the FBI knew more about the mafia than they actually did and he began to talk. Doc Reggie was shocked that here they knew the name they thought it was so secret because he knew the mob never used the mafia when he discussed anything or among long themselves. It was sort of the training that the press and one person people have invented was carried over from what existed system there was a mafia in Sicily Salihi but the Mafia in America called itself announced her and he for the first time revealed. What really meant meant our thing cozy notre and that was the name that and he told Flynn? We never call ourselves mafia because of those two. We we talk about it. So in that sense he had a breakthrough finally found out what comes in and the LACI he had to produce an inside story. Paint the canvas what it was like to be a Mafia soldier the trench inches over the first time he started spilling the beans Flynn started to press the LACI for names and dates and how the organization got started so he became the result a stone. He interpreted the hieroglyphics he told them what it all meant. How the organization functioned other families of the makeup was host Oh structure and he actually gave them names of the New York families for the first time and who were the boss something? They didn't know it may suspected things with this was the the inside information the FBI only knew the tip of the iceberg. The mafia iceberg it really. I'd never really penetrated the organization and realize the real details of how it function. The LACI revealed the organizational structure of the Mafia. He detailed how the Costra was divided into family. Units each each with a boss and under box and lieutenants and soldiers beneath them So soldier is a person high up in the mob by the very nature of being admitted to them up the given mop secrets they told about what has occurred. They need to know who are the people are within the mob because us. They're free to cross anybody who's outside the bomb but no one who's in the mop And so they tend to know a great deal Blotchy demonstrated demonstrated that even as a low level soldier the LACI still knew who was above him and that these mafia families extended across America from Boston to San Francisco. He told him how you got inducted Omega Ho- Cold Code of silence. Is that what you became a member. You could never leave how you became inductive how you had to become earner or be a hitman. Kill somebody before. He could even be qualified to be an inducted so he started pulling aside any for the first time he told him the names of the families and no idea the five families in New York where they were they were. Flynn listened with astonishment. The crime family's sophisticated network was far far more powerful than the FBI had predicted Flynn interrogated va Laci four days a week for almost three months an average ridge session lasted about three hours until the LACI became tired and irritated Kennedy realized that Va LACI had the potential to provide a gold mine of information. On how the American mafia's operated he wanted to conduct public hearings but he was concerned about the mobsters credibility already. How could anyone be sure that he was telling the truth? Or they're sitting on a lot of information. What she thinks is very revelatory about the mafia but he can't disclose because under state laws he could never federal law he could intercept them bug but he couldn't use it in courtroom evidenced? Take it for the FBI. Already had a lot of information on suspected mob hits all they had to do was connect. The DOT's Flynn task. The Police Department with digging up thirty years worth of information on suspicious murders they found that Valencia's version of a gang slayings and killings including the dates locations and the circumstances could all be verified. The LACI was telling the truth I think with the LACI did was explained what the FBI had and didn't know they had and so the f. b. i. had tapes they had relationships between individuals. They hit terms. They had words in both English and Italian that they didn't understand and philosophy was able to make sense out of all of that and was able to identify them by name rather than nickname. But other than that I think the Lachey testimony pretty much stands on its own and it has been proven accurate overtop. The nineteen sixty three. The LACI agreed to go public and disclosed the secrets of the American Mafia. The LACI was flown to Washington to face an investigating Senate Committee on organized crime across America but velocities. Jeez main fear was that the F. B. I couldn't protect him from Vito Genovese and according to FBI sources members of the Genovese crime. I am family. Were already tracking him down from his. So Vito Genovese had put a price tag on velocities. End One hundred hundred thousand dollars in the next episode. The LACI would appear in court over two weeks in October. Giving firsthand accounts counts of life as a Mafia soldier Hitman on thing that Joe volonte revealed to law enforcement and for the people in charge of this country was the structure of the Mafia. The history of the Mafi. He had a vast knowledge and he was the one who expose all the families. The names of the people the level of Authorities but sitting in the public light only made him more vulnerable to retaliation. The mob of course was horrified defied. The leaders were horrified. But what he what he was going to do and by his testimony they knew the evening testified that he was going on instead and and the FBI after getting what they wanted could protect it forever. Bobby Kennedy Wild scheme than maybe bringing Karachi's put on Desert Island about the rest of that wasn't possible and he still had a sentence for murdering a fellow convict the wrong man in Atlanta. This has been an audio boom and world media rights co-production hosted by me fleet cooper. It is produced by audio. You'll booms Rachel Jacobs Blair peyton Casey Georgie and Karen Bevan and Haskell Hughes for world meteorites we had additional production help from world meteorites by Gerald Isabella and James Tindale David mcnabb is the series creative director and the executive producers for audio. Boom are Brendan Regan and Stewart last. Thanks to light stream and best fiends for sponsoring this episode. Follow Mafia on. spotify or. Subscribe on Apple. PODCASTS podcasts stitcher or wherever you find your favorite shows.

FBI Giovanni Laci Vito genovese American Mafia Joe Jove lachey Atlanta Flynn bluffed Vlach Robert Kennedy Genovese America Jove Lachey Genovese New York lachey Apple Kurt Luchino La Cosa Nostra
13: Bonus 02: The Crackdown

Mafia

27:49 min | 2 years ago

13: Bonus 02: The Crackdown

"For decades. The American mafia ruled, the criminal underworld of United States and beyond organized crime was an all American business owned and operated by powerful families, outfits and figureheads with their own rules and their own laws. They were untouchable and nearly invincible. The mafia was so well established in so knit into the fabric of urban societies that no law enforcement agency was able to make a crack in their criminal activities, their influence even reached into the heights of society. They paid off judges police officers, politicians and controlled entire industries. It was very frustrating, but you know, there was always tainted. Officers were willing to accept monies from the mall. A way of supplementing their income may curbs out on strip. They got jackets, go bracelets necklaces, and rings and things like that. To look the other way, not look at all for decades, law enforcement, lack the resources skills, tools or the will to go after the mom. But there were some young hotheads him along and decided to take a stand. They drafted new laws, targeted influential mobsters used new technology together, intelligence and found trusted informants. Some even infiltrated families, deep undercover. Joseph stone was an FBI agent twenty seven years and using the name Donnie Brasco. I was able to infiltrate the been on, oh, five family in New York City. And finally, the long arm of the law could reach the American mafia. This is mafia the crackdown. As the director of the FBI j. Edgar Hoover fought crime for nearly fifty years, but through the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties. He vehemently denied that there was any organized crime in America. Former NYPD detective, Joe coffee. They had the hand in the name because nobody would look at the nobody would even consider investigating them. Not the least of which was Dagoba. He refused to admit that was off it. The only law enforcement agency in this country. It was investigating the mom in the fifties and sixties. Early sixties was the Manhattan District attorney's office. They were the only ones who really expose what organized crime we're showing, but we're getting nowhere because the feds wouldn't back them up. The feds ignored organized crime, former mafia investigator. Ronald gold stock the FBI in Hoover in particular tended to deny the existence of the mob and that was for different reasons. No one really knows the answer. But one possibility is he recognized the corruption potential. That the mob had when they engaged in vice activities, things that the public wanted on terms of goods and services Hoover's denial of the mafia only fit to serve them and for several decades they could get away with nearly anything on November fourteenth in nineteen fifty seven, a summit was called an Appalachian New York. The top crime bosses from around the United States. All of a sudden were gathered in one place, crime author, Thomas Repetto, all we know that a bunch of gangsters top gangsters from the United States and elsewhere suddenly appeared in Appalachian New York in in a very remote part of the state of New York, and you can no longer deny that there was some kind of national syndicate. Why was the guy do miles away? Wandry alzon. Same thing. We went to see the Joe who was the local guy because we heard he was sick. Note of the local and state law enforcement couldn't ignore the very public gathering and they broke the meeting up, but the FBI and Hoover were stubborn. But basically the FBI did did very little Ronald Goldstock the on the federal level, the only agency that was interested in all in organized crime tended to be. Bureau of narcotics, and that's because there was an alliance between Sicilian mafia and American cozinne, oh straightened dealing drugs. At that time, the failure of the raid only proved that the f. b. i. could not be trusted yet with taking down the mom. And so the early successes, the law enforcement had where mostly things, two determined individuals who took it upon themselves to go after some of the country's biggest mobsters in the nineteen thirties and forties. New York prosecutor and district attorney. Thomas Dewey was relentless in his pursuit of the mufti out this earned him, the nickname gang BUSTER. He targeted organized crime like no one had done before him and went after the big players. Like Dutch Schultz and looking Luchino prime author Nate 'n Lee. Thomas Dewey is almost the exact opposite of Dutch Schultz, other than the fact that they were born in the same year. They have almost nothing in common. These almost a stereotypical straight arrow. You know, great student at school. You know, great marks becomes a prosecutor, you know, he's got a passion for the law, passion against crime, and he's very serious and he's very incorruptible. So he really sort of does not like gangsters all in one of their most ferocious enemies. He has mustache, you know, he's very clean cut looking, and he carries himself with certain dignity, and he is, is I said, absolutely incorruptible and very, very serious about putting these guys behind bars. One of the distinguishing factors that he can't be bribed. He has visceral dislike of organized crime, and he really sort of sets his sight on getting gangsters like Dutch Scholtz behind bars. He also targetted lucky Luciano at a different point, Dewey rose through the rings when he was appointed special Turney to investigate gambling. Rackets do we, I sit his. Sights on prosecuting Dutch Scholtz who was big in the bootlegging and numbers rackets. He successfully took Schultz to trial twice on tax evasion and made himself a mortal enemy. Well, short is initially delighted to hear this report from Albert anaesthesia saying, well, here's a way we could actually kill Thomas Dewey. He's thinking, great, you know, we can get this guy off. My back Schultz failed to get a contract on doing meanwhile, dealy also targeted mafia leader and head of the mob commission. Lucky Luchino Lucina was convicted on a prostitution racket. Crime, author, Ernest Volkmann began together auditors bookkeepers, experts, investigators, and a task force, and he targeted some of the major gangsters. He changed the conviction of John, which was incredible. I mean, this was the Lord high master criminal. At some somehow he went out with the momentum of prosecuting. Luchino, Dewey went on to break up the poultry racket of gangster Tootsie Herbert and made dozens more raids over his career. Don't even a very ordinary man and a legal mind like machine don't. We was the kind of guy he would sit there and somebody would relate to him a prosecution case. He would listen quietly and repeat it word for word and then turn around and argue with equal. It's the defense case against it. That's goodi was what he did was for the first time begin to organize. Anti-crime and away their crime had been organized. I'm really excited to tell you about the sponsor for today's show. It's a fantastic new novel by New York Times, bestselling author, Andrew gross, get this description button. Man brings to life the birth of organized crime in nineteen thirties, New York City through the story of one family. Now, you know why, I'm excited. You're going to love this book, but man is part historical thriller part family saga. You've got great descriptions of immigrant life in New York's Lower East Side in the twenties and thirties, and the family part is partly based on grosses own family, which is pretty cool. And then he weaves in real history. It's got appearances by mobsters Louis limpkey, boo, Coulter Dutch Schultz and also special prosecutor Thomas Dewey. If you've been listening to this show, you already know all these guys. Here's what bestselling author. Linda fairstein says about it, but man is. A riveting piece of historical fiction, exposing the Jewish mob of the nineteen thirties who preyed on the garment industry and the brave few who stood up against them. This book is a heart stopper and number one, New York Times, bestselling author, Kristin Hannah calls, but man, a compelling fast paced historical thriller fans of boardwalk empire and densely Hain will love it. Forget Dennis, la- Hain fans of mafia will love it, but man by Andrew grosses available. Now in hardcover e book and audio from mentor books go to the audio version if you can. It's really good. Button man by Andrew gross. While Dewey was able to prosecute many gangsters for tax evasion and embezzlement. There was no law that could charge them with murder, racketeering extortion, and the like most mafia bosses wouldn't get their hands dirty. They just gave the orders. Therefore they were virtually immune from prosecution prosecutors needed a more effective weapon, a new law to go after them. And the answer was Rico, former NYPD detective, Joe coffee, Rinco the Rico stanchion tonight. The money, congressman early seventies stands for racketeering influence corrupt organization. The weapon that was developed by Ron goal stock and Bob Blakey who wrote actually vote, the statute was put in place for us in oral force them to be able to better control crime and interesting it, and it became magnificent weapon, and it really, really. Caused the downfall of mash crime as we knew stays and it was, we knew it to that Rico was the biggest weapon we ever got and we got it from Tonga, thanks to goals stock and Blake former mafia investigator. Ronald Goldstock helped draft the Rico laws which came into effect in nineteen seventy. He put into context how the tools of investigation and prosecution changed and became more effective over time. And I think to understand what was happening with organized crime and law enforcement at the time in to look at both law enforcement and and the mob, the mob began in the thirties as you move on from the thirties, to the forties to the fifties, the sixties there, a generational changes. And they've the people that Ben joined the mob view came in with the values of their contemporaries, and they were more concerned about what they were going to get rather than what was happening within the mop. Law enforcement on the other hand for longtime denied its existence by the nineteen fifties. The FBI got interested, and that meant not in terms of prosecution, but in terms of finding out what was going on what they hit missed all the time. And so they began a program of wiretapping and trying to determine who occupied various positions and how the organization was structured. Bobby Kennedy comes in nineteen sixty the Attorney General John Kennedy and reinvigorates the organized crime and racketeering section Fulmer NYPD detective, Joe coffee. When Robert Kennedy became the attorney general. He's the one who put the fire on the DSP FBI investigating. Robert Kennedy brother of John f. Kennedy had been appointed as the US attorney general in nineteen sixty one and double down on pursuing organized crime earlier in his career. He served as chief counsel during the Teamsters union corruption trials. The trial set to prosecute union Representative Jimmy Hoffa, which led to some standoffs with the mafia journalist, John Siegenthaler, and to see the two of them in Jimmy Hoffa and Robert Kennedy engage in that those three sessions before that committee. FIDA it was drama. It was gripping and and and it was a struggle came away with it with clean on. Then Hoffa and the union were linked to organize pawn in the mall. Bobby Kennedy came in knowing that killer crime problem that on the federal every do something about he brings in some of the best and brightest prosecutors at that point, including g Robert blankie. Blakey now sees what is lacking in federal enforcement. He understands that there aren't the correct tools that the behind the times professor Robert Blakey drafted. The Rico act Rico is three different things. It changes the way you investigate crimes of investigating criminals. You investigate criminal organizations. It's also theory trial instead of trying individuals individually. You try them as part of the group. And therefore the trials larger and it's full. Are the jury hear more evidence? What actually happened. And it's a theory of sanction, which is to say. The kind of sentences that come out of it or incapacitated their forty fifty years e end the property that was used in course, commission the crime or gained in it for the government and the impact of taking out individuals. Basically off the street and seizing the assets involved. Is very parable it. It's changed the rules of the game. The Rico statute, of course was so sophisticated that no one on the started for another ten fifteen years. The Rico statute allowed groups of people to be prosecuted for multiple conspiracies. So it made it under nineteen eighteen USC nineteen sixty to see. Crime to conduct the fares of an enterprise which could be a mob family through a pattern of racketeering activity. Which meant that it was more difficult to prove because you had to prove the existence of the organization. But it allowed you for the first time to prove the existence of the organization. The Rico act was a game changer for law enforcement. If law enforcement could prove any to quote acts of racketeering, it proved a criminal pattern and criminal organization. And these acts included such common mafia activities as bribery extortion, drug dealing and murder will like any of your boss and heels mafia boss. They didn't believe in in going on television in sizing themselves. You know, they tried to keep a low profile and naturally to keep themselves removed through several levels from what happened in the operating level. That's one of the regal law was so destructive of because good now get people who didn't actually go on the trigger. With the Rigo act as a tool Blakey in the rest of the law enforcement agencies focused on figuring out ways to catch them up stors in the act any act by nineteen seventy. He now starts dealing with all of the other legislation that's needed to deal with this crime problem. And so he does thank dangerous special offender sentencing. He does what this protection. He does use immunity, allowing people to testify where only what they say can't be used against them. All of a sudden the FBI with its. Wiretap authority and with its informants. And the Rico statute started moving heavily into this area and along with the new modern laws came new modern equipment and a new breed of highly trained agents. The FBI was now using syrup tissue surveillance techniques to eavesdrop on mobsters conversations together. Incriminating evidence, former FBI special agent, Jim Wagner and expert on Electroncs Valence worked on operation. Pin Dorf. The wire tapping of Allen dorfman's personal phone lines. Wagner explained some of the ins and outs of a major, tapping operation, the process to bug a room. Court to place a microphone in a room, requires the court to provide authority for the FBI or any other law enforcement agency who has the right to do that to serve tissue sleep, enter the premises and to place a microphone where it will not be easily discovered to do a entry to place a microphone, his a time, consuming effort that is not done in one night. It's usually something that takes a lot of preparation, a lot of time planning, and it takes a lot of people so that you're not discovered Hugh will always use other surveillance people to watch the area if you are aware of, let's say. A single location, and you're aware of who has a key to get into that location. You will survey all that person and make sure he doesn't come back to that location while you're there. Because if he leaves to come in in the middle of the night, you have to tell the people to get out of there. That type of monitoring takes a lot of patience. And a lot of people just don't have that kind of patience. Wiretapping journ out to be one of the most effective ways of bringing down even the most untouchable mumbles with these tools along with the Rico act, law enforcement was able to put some of the big names behind bars, San giancana. John Gotti Dutch Schultz, entire families in outfits were taken out of commission. Chicago strikeforce leader, Doug roller. The best evidence you news in court is defendants on words. You cannot undo your words. You might try to explain them away, but if there are enough words there, you're sunk two best. Get those words straight from the horse's mouth. The FBI sometimes relied on an old fashioned method undercover work in the nineteen eighties. The most famous undercover agent, Joe ca- stone took his place in the mob as the gangster Donnie Brasco Joe Pistone fantastic FBI agent real hero and should be seen as a hero by the American public. Someone who actually put his life on hold to really get to the the root of segment of organized crime in the United States and put his life on on the line. Really to stone, spent the better part of a decade rising up among the ranks of the Bonanno family. The operation got countless mafia, so's killed, and eventually lead to the arrest of all five family couples. The case came to a head in what was known as the commission trial, former FBI agent, Pat Cogan. Well, needless to say the convictions of many of the Donald family members, including Joe Messina, was very satisfying to many law enforcement people who were were involved in the investigations, but by no means to law enforcement, think we had a radical it the entire crime problem. That was never the case, but it did have a. Detrimental effect on the organized crime family, the impact it had on on the way the I dealt with the mafia we showed they weren't invincible. And. We brought out and and and showed a lot of the illegal activities that they weren't bombed in that we could charge him with. And and and basically that we can go after and get the upper-echelon versus, you know, versus the guys on the bottom doing all the dirty work. And you know they that and. They, they started to to emphasize using the Rico to get these guys. It took the US several decades to finally crackdown on organized crime in America. There are always going to be new threats and other organized crime groups, but the power and influence the American mafia once held over American society was so unprecedented and it is unlikely to make a comeback, but law enforcement is prepared for what the future might hold today as a result of the FBI wiretapping, the witness protection program and Rico. There aren't no families in the United States outside of the city of New York in New York of that had five families now has it best two and a half, and they're not the significant thing that the worry in corrupting unions and the police. That they were in nineteen sixty three. The sun has not said on the Bob, but it's clearly twilight and a major. Factor in that is legislation passed. In the next bonus episode, the mafia had ruled the underground for a long time, but they never would have gone so far without the help of some very corrupt officials. Frank Stella was the prime minister of New York organized crime back in the nineteen thirties, forties and fifties. Actually, Frank ended up in control of Tammany hall, which was four hundred years. The leading political organization in New York City, how the mafia infiltrated the unions politicians, and even the CIA and what they expected in turn. Tentacles into new business. They're in business to be in business, so they need to reach him to have tentacles into the police department in maybe the state prosecutor's office. The attorney general's office department of insurance, and they need to have this person case. They need a favor nixed week, mafia, bonus, three, the establishment. This has been an audio, boom and world media rights co-production hosted by me fleet Cooper, it is produced by audio booms been Hasley and Richard Jacobs and Bettina Vasquez for world media rights. We had editing help from David Markowitz with additional production from world media rights by Gerald Bingguo. David McNabb is the series creative director and the executive producers for audio. Boom are Brendan Reagan and Stewart last. Thanks to Saint Martin's press for sponsoring this episode. Follow mafia on Spotify or subscribe on apple podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you find your favorite shows. And if you got some time, give us a review. hey, mafia. Fans uses a secret. I just can't stay silent about. We have a fishery launched a merge store and it's live on audio, boom right now if you love mafia and want to show your support head over to audio, boom dot com. Ford slash Merck Ford, slashing mafia. You can buy a nice mug a phone case that the f. b. i. hasn't tapped or a journal to keep a list of people you can trust or maybe those can't. You'll be a stylish as lucky Lucci Yano the sure to keep an eye on the store as new designs and products get added regularly. That's audio, boom, dot com forward slash Merck forward slash mafia. Thanks for your support.

FBI New York City Rico United States Thomas Dewey prosecutor NYPD racketeering Coulter Dutch Schultz New York Times Bob Blakey Joe coffee attorney Edgar Hoover mafia Andrew gross Bobby Kennedy America Ronald Goldstock
Amid Pandemic, Italian Prosecutors Warn That Mafia Groups Are Cementing Their Power

NPR's World Story of the Day

04:04 min | 3 months ago

Amid Pandemic, Italian Prosecutors Warn That Mafia Groups Are Cementing Their Power

"Europol the European Union Police Agency is warning that quote. The pandemic has opened up a business opportunity. For Predatory criminals they are trading counterfeit masks pharmaceuticals fake corona virus tests in Italy as NPR's Sylvia Pohjola reports prosecutors warned that Mafia groups are aiming higher soon. After the virus hit Italy a parody of the Naples Mafia. The Comoros went viral than obesity. Soon we'll have him on a bunch of guys with shaved heads meet in an empty log to make a deal forget. Coq One thug tells another. The new gold is sanitizing GEL. Six weeks later. Italians are not laughing. As they mourn a spiralling number of dead nearly the entire economy is shutdown hardest. Hit are the estimated three and a half million who work off the books mostly in the south in agriculture and construction as families. Run OUT OF CASH. There've been incidents of social unrest in this video. A man and his mother beat on banks doors embody screaming. We have no more money organized. Crime will exploit this growing. Desperation says Punches Novoye Voi- anti-mafia prosecutor in Palermo. Sicily math yet seghal. The mafia's always gravitate toward money. He says and they're trying to improve their image in the eyes of ordinary. Citizens for example says Calabria anti-mafia investigator. Nicola tidy bosses are delivering free food to needy families a couple markets. The Mafia boss presents himself as a benefactor by providing a guy with three hundred euros. Worth OF GROCERIES SAYS GONNA Teddy. He makes sure that at the next election. The Guy and his whole family will vote the way them feels a wants them to. In other words the mafia is using the pandemic to cement its power and with immense quantities of capital. These gangs can pump cash into businesses on the brink of bankruptcy. Swallow THEM UP. And use them to launder profits from drugs and trafficking. The government has earmarked three hundred eighty billion dollars in emergency aid for businesses. But with Italy's notorious red tape funds could come too late. Italy is not the only country at risk mafia groups particularly the powerful and brutal that I gotTa have spread throughout Europe Magistrates stress. That organized crime is very adept and taking advantage of crises and sudden historical changes. They tell the tale of a wiretap called the day after the Berlin Wall fell a Muff Yuzo in Sicily tells his Berlin contact to rush to the east and by everything possible restaurants apartments hotels. Whatever INSA Chicote a professor at a university and expert on the Ranga says other European economies are more vulnerable than Italy's to criminal infiltration. Nonni thing because they have no perception of the danger and therefore don't have suitable legislation like law says she did that makes Mafia association a crime in itself altered. Rebecca sub Jano says Mafia business transactions are not handled thugs packing heat. Conservatism in Seattle. It'll be the mobs white-collar financial consultant. Who sees a good deal to get access to the legitimate business owners bank account this way at Savino? They control the Economy Magistrates. Also talk about a more recent wiretap call where one boss tells another in our business. We no longer need to know how to shoot. Just how to move our index finger on a computer keyboard Silvio Jolie. Npr News Rome.

Naples Mafia Italy NPR Sicily Mafia association Economy Magistrates Comoros European Union Police Agency obesity Sylvia Pohjola Berlin Wall Novoye Voi Silvio Jolie Rebecca sub Jano Savino Palermo Ranga Calabria Nicola Seattle
15: Bonus 04 - Rats

Mafia

25:15 min | 1 year ago

15: Bonus 04 - Rats

"Do you know where you'll find every vaping product you could ever need all in one place, e liquid dot com. They carry over eighteen hundred different brands of e liquid hardware, replacement coils, vape and do it yourself excess Sary's, whatever your situation, whether you're looking to make a lifestyle change, or it's time for an upgrade e liquid dot com. As you covered, it's all right there. Illiquid dot com will ship what you need when you need it with most orders shipping the same day when ordered by five PM eastern time, and they've got a special offer for mafia listeners, you'll get twenty percent off your first purchase. When you visit e liquid dot com forward slash mafia and use promo code mafia during checkout. That's e l I q dot com forward slash mafia promo code mafia. One of the unwritten rules of the mafia was Omar time the code of silence. It was forbidden to talk about the existence of the mafia to reveal how it worked or name the main players, the mafia demanded loyalty from its members to the very end. But when law enforcement started using modern surveillance techniques to incriminate mobsters, the list of those willing to cooperate with authorities began to grow longer and longer. It turns out mobsters do talk about the mafia, even bosses if it means saving their own skin. In this bonus episode of mafia, we'll look at how the police and FBI were able to crack the code of omerta. We'll look at some of the most high profile rats and mob history and how mafia often insured silence before these wiseguys were even able to contemplate cutting a deal. Finally, we'll look at what makes mobsters flip despite knowing it could mean a contract on their head. This is Mufida. For a long time, the American public, even people within law enforcement weren't aware that the mafia really existed. Remember that the the mob cozine Ostra was a secret society, the law of omerta which everybody had to what here to says, said, essentially, you can't mention the existence of the mob or testify again about anybody else. Ron Gould stock is a former mafia investigator, and so there were inklings about it the EA more than any other federal agency. At that time, the bureau of narcotics knew somewhat about it because they saw the traffic and going back and forth between American organized crime and talion organized crime groups until the early nineteen sixties. The real inner workings of the mafia were largely unknown, but by and watch, no one knew really the the names of it. They they'd saw the union cecillia to be part of what they considered the underworld. But no one knew. You it definitively until intercepted conversations in the mid and late fifties sought disclosing names. And even then people did not law enforcement than not know what precisely meant. They heard phrases like Cosa Nostra. They heard Capela regime. They heard boss, they heard crew, but it was not an context that they hit understood and then Volonte in nineteen sixty three came along and explained it. A lot of people didn't believe a lot. Joseph Volonte was a soldier in lucky Lucina 's family, which eventually became known as the Genovese crime family in nineteen sixty three. He was called to testify before the Senate committee on organized crime which was led by Senator John McClellan. I mean, the luxury was the watershed. I mean, it's not as if without philosophy. Law enforcement would not have ultimately figured out what was occurring in what the electron evaluates meant and what informants were saying. But Velox put it altogether and gave a coherent picture of the mob earlier than that, otherwise could have been done. There had always been mobsters who collaborated with the police or the feds mainly to reduce a looming prison sentence, but everyone thought they belongs to small criminal gangs. Maybe working for someone higher up velocities testimony was in a completely different league. He dropped a bombshell by revealing not only the existence of the mafia, but it structural hierarchy as well. All of a sudden the conversations the FBI had been listening to started to make a lot more sense what Volonte revealed was the structure of the mob. The fact that it was closing Oestra. The fact that it was different than the mafia. The fact that there were families and families existed in various places around the country certainly didn't know all of them. In fact, when he was asked by the Senator from Nebraska, whether or not there was organized crime in Omaha, he sort of leaned over, talked to his lawyer and everybody in Omaha. What does he know? He was just asking what Omaha was where it was. So there was a lot that he didn't know he was parochial. He was regional. He, he understood New York. He had heard about other activities in other places by in large, what he could do was give the structure of the mob. It's wounds and its rituals a real face and explanation and coherence that otherwise wouldn't have existed. Professor. Robert Blakey is a former special attorney at the department of Justice. It used to be that they would never testify because they knew they were dead. If they did the Laci came for improved that you could testify against the them not get killed. There are some things that improve with age fine wine, single malt scotch, a bad haircut, sadly, this isn't the case when it comes to your skin. So the question is, what are you doing about it? Guys, I'm looking at you, yes, real men. Talk about skin care and hair laws and sexual wellness to. That's right. We're talking about hymns. The one stop shop for everything. A guy needs to stay youthful and healthy hymns. Anti-aging kid is accustomed prescription cream formulated to keep your skin looking youthful and smooth by reducing the appearance of wrinkles and fine lines. The secret. Okay. It's not very secret. It's Tronoh knowin- and like everything you'll find at four hymns dot com. It's results are backed by science hymns, connects you with doctors online, who will evaluate your skin needs and then prescribe a custom anti-aging treatment. All you need to do is take a couple pictures and answer. If you questions it's your skin. Do you want to be a face in the crowd or the face. In the crowd order now and save twenty dollars off your first month of hymns, anti-aging kit lock in those looks now and get your first month of anti-aging for twenty dollars off. Go to four hymns dot com. Forward slash mafia s. c. that's f. o. r. h. i. m. s. dot com forward slash mafia as c. forehands dot com forward slash mafia as see. The Laci took an enormous risk by violating the law of omerta Zo publicly mobsters hate rats and the punishment for squealing is to shut them up forever. Mike Vecchione's is the author of friends of the family about the inside story of the mafia Cobb case, the idea that informants were killed. Could be killed are presently killed is not far fetched on there. Any circumstance? You know, there are individuals who turn up, for instance in the trunk of a of an abandoned car. And then when you do the investigation, you figure out that this is a guy who was suspected of being what the mob calls a rat or in fact was there are instances where those those situations don't appear. You know, in the headlines, don't appear in the newspapers or on television to the extent that the mafia cops investigation occurred, but it happens all the time. It really does. And you know, it's it's the kind of thing where we as prosecutors and detectives and other Lawrence forcement personnel of very protective of the identity. And the fact of law of of us having informed. It's not known what motivated Volonte to become an informant. But while he may have been the first mobster to publicly mentioned the mafia, he certainly wasn't the first to talk to the police. There's a long list of high profile rats within the mafia who over the years ended up collaborating with the state, not everybody was able to uphold the code of silence. The line between betrayal and loyalty was often very fine and the price for crossing it could be very high. So when a mobster was cornered and felt he had nothing left to lose. The only hope was to save his own skin and start talking. Abraham kid twist relatives was a professional killer within the notorious murder Inc the mafia's internal enforcement agency in nineteen forty rails was charged with murder and likely facing the death penalty. So he decided to flip, he started to cooperate with the feds and read it out his boss, the infamous Albert anesthesia. It was a classic setup that made rails flip. He became paranoid and thought there was no other way out. Nathan ward is the author of dark harbor in nineteen forty. He was in jail in the Bronx, and he got wind of certain people in his organization talking to the DA and the sort of culture of snitching was going around the jailhouse and it made him. I'm nervous. So he decided he wasn't going to be the last guy left in jail when everyone else is talking. And he sent a note through his wife to district attorney Dwyer in Brooklyn that he was ready to talk. And this was a big deal, but they had no idea what a big deal. It was until he arrived, you know, Dwyer's office in the middle of the night and he asked for a sandwich. He sat down and as Dwyer remembered it later, he had no idea that really even was organized crime at that moment. Everyone thought especially the FBI that crime was still local gangs. No one had any idea that it was you. You had coast to coast linkage among these groups, and especially the extent of the killing that was that was going on in this organized way. He then put him in protective custody in a hotel in Brooklyn heights and stenographers were brought in. And what he, he, he just proceeded to talk for eleven days and it was so ghoulish that it sickens to knock and they had like replace them in a in a group because they just know what the the the, the bail hooking in the shootings and the incinerations and the just the all the horrors that he was describing were so unknown to these people. I want to give a big thanks to our sponsor this week. Casper. They're on a mission to make the world more well rested place. One person at a time. The experts a casper were tirelessly to make a quality sleep surface that cradles you in all the right places. I'm a true believer. I love my casper mattress. It may even be one of the best things that ever happened to me. The original casper mattress combines multiple supportive memory foams for a quality sleep surface with just the right amounts of sink and bounce. But casper also offers to other mattresses the wave and the essential, the wave features a patent pending premium support system to MIR, the natural shape of your body and the essential has a streamlined design at a price that won't keep you up at night. They also have pillows and sheets. I'm telling you there on a mission. Everybody needs to get a good night's quality sleep and everything they make is affordable because casper cuts out the middleman and sell directly to you. That's a huge savings compared to old school. Mattresses plus mafia. Listeners can get fifty dollars towards select mattresses by visiting casper dot com forward slash mafia and using the code mafia at checkout terms and conditions apply. That's casper dot com. Forward slash mafia code mafia at checkout for fifty dollars towards select mattresses. Ernest Volkmann is the author of gangbusters and significantly. He remembered a lot of details about one Albert Anastasia and among other things he said, I know about Albert Anastasia personally, strangling Peter Pan panther. Well, said the police, we've got him at last, this is it. Relevance was the star witness. He was gonna put all burn recuperated away, including Albert at his stats here. And so they stashed him at a motel and Cohen called the Half Moon a hotel. Up on the sixth floor and he was a twenty four hour police guard five policemen. And just as everybody was thinking, okay, his Albert we've got a bit less. He's gonna go electric. That's it. Relishes is found dead. Somebody threw him out a window. Now. We now know that in fact, would happen the commission got really worried because it's one thing to have some of these other Joe Bohm's from Burma cooperated, go away. It's another thing for somebody like Albert Anastasia, that's that's the problem so much for voiding the death penalty after the Laci is testimony in nineteen sixty three. The state shifted the way they went after the mafia over the coming years, they were able to put more pressure on mobsters. Thanks to new investigative tools and laws. It started to become a real headache for the mob that one of their own could be cornered to such an extent that they would start talking. A lot of high profile mobsters got wacked before they could even consider cutting a deal with the feds. Nobody was certain who among them could be trusted in the nineteen eighties. The Genovese family were unaware that Peterson. Savino a trusted associate had become an informant for the feds and was wearing a wire here. So when RAB again, it's important time to stand for many years decades Junji Gandhi escape. The observation of FBI and would finally happened was ju- Canty who during his decades, both as a soldier, a capital and later the boss of the family under the slightest suspicion would kill anybody. He thought might be a squier a weasel, and there was only one blunder that he made in his life. He trusted somebody by the name of pita. Savino wasn't even a made guy, but for some reason, one of the reasons was at Savino is bringing in millions to the family. To something called a windows racket. Savino was a terrific earner and. Jay Gandhi began to trust him for years. Even though the other members of other mobs families were suspicious of Savino, and that was the one blunt. That you gave debate Savino got into trouble, became involved in FBI murder investigation and decided to cop out, take a plea and cooperate and he wore a wire and for the first time, the f. b. I was able to get jig Gante talking a bit, but Savino had firsthand evidence of all the record. Some of the rackets that you gave he was involved in and by implicating. Ju- Gandhi, it was Savino. Nobody else who brought him down the most high-profile case was undoubtedly Joe Masino boss of the Bonanno crime family. He flipped in two thousand and three to avoid the death penalty, and he took everyone down with him. It was a betrayal of epic proportions. A number of things happened. He was in prison in Colorado, which is known here in the state says flax in Florence, Colorado, and it is a prison that appears to be one story high. If you've ever visited it's one story and you wonder, well, how could it be a prison less because the other ten stories are underneath the ground. It's a very formidable place. Very barren place at Cogan a former FBI special agent tales Masino for more than a decade. It's where most of the death row federal inmates end up on your high profile, terrorists and high profile. Convicted criminals end up. So Joe was sentenced to Florence Colorado prison. And he did not have an easy time. Physically there. For the most part, Joe Messina at nowhere to go except to the deaths chamber. And therefore he decided to become a cooperating witness. With no real promises from the government other than what ever he would share and testify to in court. Would be known to judge. Can through Joe Messina's attorney. There could be a request made for reduction of sentence. It's all Joe Massena new. That the the court would allow a reduction of sentence application to be made. If you're facing the death penalty, that's not a bad opportunity to have a reduction of sentence heard by judge. Jeffrey select is an FBI special agent who was part of the team that brought down Joe Masino. We spent years of our lives. You know, investigating this guy and he then cooperates after he's convicted within a couple of hours. He's looking to save his own skin. So I think we'd all be disappointed that this is a guy who was supposed to be the last bastion of the mob and just demonstrates where the mob sits today. If Joe Masino who was known as the last dawn, the man who really believed in the life if it took him two hours or less than two hours from conviction to cooperate with us, tells you the state of the mob. They can't trust each other. They can't look at each other in the eye and feel that they have a comrade in arms. They're all self serving and what do they do when they get arrested? Now that cooperate. This is exactly where the law wanted the mafia to be. Mobsters had nowhere else to hunt as soon as the feds could charge them with a crime. The pressure to flip was intensified, Tony, Steph. No is the author of king of godfathers. I think most people who have any hope of of wanting to see a life outside prison. We'll become a cooperator. That's the one thing, the light at the end of the tunnel you have when you're facing twenty five years life potential life in prison. Some of these guys faced the only way you're going to be out of jail, have any hope of being a Freeman on the outside. There's to cooperate and people know that. Well, not everybody doesn't. The old guard. Some people are very loyal. They want, but you know, not everybody's. That's not everybody's wedded to that kind of. Code of conduct. As you were America, the old, you know. Musical code of silence in the mafia's really kinda shredded. It's really no longer a factor. People lining up to be witness, government news, wise, guys. Is why they're more cautious news. The mafia has ruled on omerta had been violated so many times. It simply didn't carry the same weight at once. Did for mobsters faced with a lengthy jail sentence. It turned out that it was far better to be a witness than a defendant, even if that risked being executed, it was still worth the risk. This is the final bonus episode of season two of mafia. We will return with season three in twenty nineteen. Thanks for your support. This has been an audio, boom and world media rights, co, production hosted by me fleet Cooper, it is produced by audio booms been Hasley and Rachel Jacobs and Bettina Vasquez for world media rights. We had editing help from David Markowitz with additional production from world media rights by Gerald Gerald's Benguela. David McNabb is the series creative director and the executive producers for audio. Boom are Brendan Reagan and Stewart last. Thanks to talk space for sponsoring this episode. Follow mafia on Spotify or subscribe on apple podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you find your favorite shows. And if you've got some time, give us a review.

FBI Savino Albert Anastasia Joseph Volonte omerta Joe Masino Savino murder Laci Omaha Genovese Jay Gandhi Ron Gould Joe Messina Dwyer Casper attorney Omar
CONSPIRACY: Besa Mafia

Supernatural with Ashley Flowers

38:49 min | Last month

CONSPIRACY: Besa Mafia

"If. You've been around at all for the past decade. You've probably heard of the dark web. It's the black market of the Internet were all sorts of illicit activities. Go on drugs, identity theft human trafficking. If it's illegal, you can probably find it there. If you know where to look, but that's the catch. Since the dark web isn't searchable, it's impossible to know what's really out there. And what's a hoax like red rooms for example, where actual murderers are supposedly? Those don't exist Hitman for hire sites, according to the anti conspiracy theory site, rational wicky, those are the real thing. But in February two thousand sixteen, an anonymous user made one small edit to the rational wicky page. All assassination sites are scams except for base mafia, which is real. This is supernatural apar- cast original and I'm your host Ashley Flowers every Wednesday. I'll be taking a deep dive into a real unexplained mystery to try and figure out the truth. You can find all episodes of supernatural and all other podcast originals for free on spotify, and if you like what you're hearing, reach out on facebook instagram at podcast and on twitter at podcast network. This episode is about a dark web murder for hire site called Besa Mafia with enforcement learned about the site in two thousand sixteen. They thought it was a scam like every other side of its kind. Until one of the hits was actually carried out. We'll dig into the conspiracy right after this. On April. Twenty fifth two thousand. Sixteen a file was. Uploaded to a data, leaking site called syphon. It was a dump of stolen user data from Besa mafia, which for the past few months had been the talk of the Dark Web community Baeza is Albanian for trust. The site is supposedly run by members of the Albany and mafia, although they don't carry out any of the services themselves. It's sort of like goober violent crimes like you can sign up to. To be an assassin, list your skills and pay rate, and they'll match you with customers in your area. Who Want someone killed? Besa mafia appeared on the dark web in December. Two Thousand Fifteen, and it started to gain attention a couple of months later posts about the site were popping up all over the Internet on reddit and quarrel and random blogs. All of them insisted that it was the real deal. The leaked data, though told a different story, there were definitely hundreds of paying customers user names, passwords message logs bitcoin transaction, even pictures of the intended victims, but reading through the messages it looked like none of the hits that were paid for had ever actually happened. The site's owner was taking payments, and in stream, the customers along with unexpected delays missed connections, and so on until they just gave up an icee appeared because whoever was behind the leak could have just cherry-picked messages to make it look like a fraud. That's what a lot of the site supporters were saying, but to most people. The leak just confirmed the obvious of course base. A Mafia is a scam. Every murder-for-hire site is. Now, it's reasonable to think you could hire a Hitman on the dark web pretty much. Every other illicit business can be found there. You've probably heard of Silk Road the black market site that was shut down by the FBI in two thousand thirteen. They mostly sold drugs, but there are other sites out there that sell weapons child abuse materials human organs, any number of horrible things you could think of, but none of the major markets allowed the solicitation of murder. And that's probably because you know. Murderer is bad, but it's mostly because so many people were getting ripped off. What makes contract killing different from any other illicit business like drug, dealing or sex work? Is that hitmen don't typically have repeat customers, and regardless of how well you would do the job. The likelihood that any of your clients will recommend you to a friend is pretty close to zero so from a business perspective. There's no reason to actually go out and kill someone when you can take the customer's money and run after all. ARE THEY GONNA do go to the police? In fact, the guy who ran silk road, Ross Albrecht tried to hire a Hitman online and he got scammed, not only did he lose seven hundred and thirty thousand dollars on murders that never happened, but one of the Hitman that he tried to hire was an cover. COP does one of the factors that led to his arrest in two thousand thirteen. If the person who more or less invented the dark web market couldn't get a murder done without getting arrested. It seemed like no one could. Could, so after getting banned from basically every dark web marketplace, individual assassins started setting up their own sites, all of which were quickly confirmed to be scams at the time of the base Mafia leak in two thousand sixteen, never in history has there been a single death tied to a dark web hitmen and from the leaked data. It didn't look as a Mafia was going to be the first. It ran on the exact same business model as the other frauds. No murders, no refunds just. Of Lies, but even if there were no real hitmen involved here, these customers were clearly serious about their desire to have someone killed. For example, one of the most vicious orders came from a user called dog day got their target was also one of the most unlikely forty three year old. Amy alwine A dog trainer from cottage Grove Minnesota. Dog Day, God's real identity was a mystery, but they claim to be a woman from the same area. Who Knew Amy Socially? But order form said that amy quote has torn my family apart by sleeping with my husband who left me and is stealing clients from my business. I want her dead. At the time of the leak in April, the job was still pending. It hadn't been accomplished yet, but according to the messages there had been a few failed attempts in the previous month. And just a few days earlier dog day God had made a second payment to upgrade the murder from a staged car accident to an arson, burning down the entire line family home. So far. This user had paid base mafia at least eleven thousand dollars for amy's murder. Clearly, they were serious about making it happen. So if the Hitman didn't come through, who knew if this person might take matters into their own hands? So when the FBI learned about this data leak, they took it seriously enough to warn the local police in cottage grove about the threat on Amy's life. The police contacted amy in her husband. Stephen understandably shocked by the news. Neither of them had any idea who dog day God could be. The old lines were a happy suburban couple who didn't have a single enemy in town I mean they were both involved in their local church and Steven was even a deacon. Amy insisted that she was not having an affair with anyone and Steven believed her so when they couldn't find any likely suspects the. The police just kind of let it go after all the evidence pointed to base a Mafia being a scam for all anyone knew this could just be some kind of sick practical joke, so the all wines went back to life as normal over the summer, the base of Mafia site was shut down by vigilante hackers. The site owner was never found, and neither was dogged a got, but it looked like the all lines nightmare was over. But then six months later, amy was dead. A November thirteenth at around seven PM Stephen and their son Joseph get home to find Amy's body sprawled on the floor of the master bedroom. It looked as she shot herself the gun still laying next to her elbow. It's the same handgun that she and Stephen had bought for protection just a few months earlier. Stephen Calls nine one and says I think my wife shot herself and he doesn't sound very sure about it, and it's no wonder why the local detectives remember the all lines from the hitman threat before they even get to the house. They have a feeling that this probably isn't a suicide. And all the evidence seems to confirm it. There are some things at the scene that just don't quite add up first of all. There's a clean patch on the floor boards. Right outside the bedroom. Where amy was found, it was cleaned very recently like to smear marks weren't fully dried yet, which implies that someone was cleaning up the scene after? And even the bedroom itself looks staged. There are signs that the body was moved post mortem. The gun is actually resting on the floor next to amy's left Elbow, which is odd placement on its own, but extra weird, because the entrance wound is on the right side of her head. and honestly it's strange that she was able to aim the gun at all because when the autopsy came back. Amy have a large amount of scopolamine in her system. SCOPOLAMINE is a prescription drug that when taken in excess can cause memory loss unconsciousness. Amy had taken forty times the recommended dose, So it's pretty clear. This was not a suicide. The entire scene had to have been staged once again. The attention turned back to dog day guide, but still no one had any idea who this mysterious enemy could be until two days into the investigation on November fifteenth when the police entered the all lines basement. It is filled with computers monitors gadgets, which isn't that Weird Stephen is an IT specialist, but for an IT specialist. He didn't do a very good job of. Of covering his digital tracks because searching his computer, the police found out that there was way more Stephen Story than he was letting on for one thing he'd been having affairs with two women that he'd met on the website Ashley Madison. He also had five cell phones that he hadn't told the investigators about and on one of them there were cookies left behind from bitcoin exchange on his laptop. There was a deleted backup file from a different phone which had notes files with the address of a bitcoin wallet, and it's the same address that dog day God you to pay base a Mafia. They also found record of searches for Queen Mining disposable computers, dark web, related sites and Scopolamine, the same drug that was used on amy. It was undeniable Stephen had ordered the hit on his wife and BASAM. Mafia might be more real than anyone imagined. I'll dig into the dark web right after this. High supernatural listeners like you. I'm a big fan of podcast, but sometimes the hardest thing is finding new shows to dive into which is why I'm here to help. Did you know that the same team that made supernatural is behind a whole collection of other shows. Here is a host from one that I think. You'RE GONNA like. Thanks Ashley if you love the captivating stories told on supernatural. Then you'll definitely want to check out our true crime podcast serial killers. I'm Vanessa Richardson. Every Monday and Thursday Greg Olsen and I catch a rare glimpse into the minds, methods and madness of some of the most sadistic murderers ever to walk the earth. Their names have become larger than life. Their crimes some. Some of the most heinous in history, their stories will shock you from the son of Sam. David, Berkowitz and the coed killer Edmund, Kemper to Jack, the, ripper and Jeffrey Dahmer. Serial killers takes you closer to the killer's crimes and cases that forever changed the face of history. Follow the par cast, original series serial killers free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story. Stephen all line had up on Bass Mafia on February fifteenth to sixteen right around the time. When the site started gaining popularity, his motivation apparently was to get rid of his wife, amy so that he could be with one of his mistresses. Divorce isn't allowed in their church, so if Stephen went that route, he lose his position as Deacon, but if amy died in a sudden accident, Stephen could grieve move on and remarry with no one the wiser. Now. Stephen worked in it and he was already pretty familiar with the dark web to get access. You have to use an encrypted browser called tour, which makes it harder to trace your location and activity. Tore is essentially the portal to a hidden network of websites that can't be found through search engines, instead of a regular Url's ending in dot, com, or dot net, or whatever these pages all end in dot onion, which regular web browsers aren't set up to access. The addresses also tend to be random strings of numbers and letters, instead of words, which makes them really hard to track down especially since tour. Tour by definition is impossible to search on the regular web, but somehow Stephen gets a hold of the address for the base of Mafia site, which is in the high tech masterpiece that you might expect. The site looks like it was designed by an amateur in early two thousand, and like the top banner, which uses the font from the movie. The Godfather says Besa mafia, higher, killer or a hacker. Just. In case you hadn't made up your mind yet. About which one the homepage is covered, what are obviously stock? Photos of men with guns with their faces blurred for some reason as if they're pretending that stock photo models or their actual. Like the whole thing, just reeks of a scam. There is a link to a page titled, services, which explained how it works. We are network of mob members who know how to use computers. When you order one of our services, we will forward it to the nearest mob member to you. He will provide the services to you locally. We have gang members who are willing to do killings starting from five thousand dollars, and they don't just do murder beatings arson. Any kind of violent crime is on the table here. The site itself essentially acts as an escrow. Escrow Service customers anonymously send the money through Bitcoin and based Mafia holds it until the Hitman confirms the job is done. Then they pass the money on keeping twenty percent as a service fee. It's supposedly no risk. If the hitman backs out or fails the site's Admins, we'll give you your money back. At least that's what they promise. And since it's all totally anonymous, the police will never be able to trace it back to. To you even if the whole site is seized, although have is your user name and the address of your anonymous bitcoin Wallet, unfortunately for Stephen, he decided to sign up with the username dog day God with he'd already used on everything from read it to his secret email account. Once the COPS had his computer. There was no way to deny that he was the one behind it, but with that glaring exception Stephen had done. Done everything imaginable to mask his identity. When ordering the hit, he decided to pose as a woman whose husband was having an affair with. Amy gives a decent motivation for the hit while also deflecting suspicion away from himself. He also knew that the only way he would get away with this is if it looked like an accident, ideally accident happened while amy was out of town, so he'd have a rock solid alibi amy was. was about to travel to Illinois for a dog show in March which seemed like perfect timing, so Stephen submits his order and pretty soon he gets a message back from the sites. Adleman, whose only identified as Ura, uric clarifies that five thousand dollars is the base rate for a simple like ganglion shooting staging an accident is gonNA cost more. The most cost effective method would be having someone. Run over amy with a car which. which they say is GonNa cost him about six thousand dollars. Stephen writes back. That would work fine. All he had to do now was transferred the payment. There are a few different ways to acquire bitcoin. You can buy it online with a bank transfer, or even credit card you can go to physical ATM's that exchange cash for Bitcoin or you can use a service like local bitcoins, which helps you find traders in your area. Area who can do the exchange in person and that's what Steven decides to do on. March third. He withdraws seven thousand dollars from a joint bank account that he and amy shared. He takes it to a local Wendy's where he needs up with a guy named Ryan from local bitcoins Stephen Hands over the cash and Ryan Scans a Qr code to drop money into Stevens bitcoin wallet, the next step is to send it on. On to base a Mafia, but here's where Stephen starts to get cold feet, not about the murder. He's worried that they're going to rip him off. After all. He heard about how Hitman for hire sites were all scams and sure everyone said based mafia was different, but Stephen still is a little suspicious, so he tells your that he wants to use a third party escrow service to hold the money until the kill is done. You're a points out the obvious problem with that and he reputable escrow services is going to require proof that the transaction was completed, and you can't exactly just send them a photo of a dead amy. And on the flip side, if base a Mafia didn't do the job. How is Stephen supposed to file a complaint about it like? Is he going to tell the escrow service that a hitman he hired didn't kill his wife like that's hardly an option, either so you're says either find an escrow service that you trust that allows illegal transactions, or you're just GONNA have to trust us. All those five star reviews don't lie. So finally Stephen relents and transfers the money to your bitcoin address. He writes era. They say that basically means trust, so please do not break that on March nineteenth. Amy left for her dog show in Illinois. She came back the next day in one piece. Apparently, the Hitman didn't have good opportunity to stage a car accident. Your apologized and said that they were willing to try again. Customer Service is their top priority, so Stephen says okay. One mistake is understandable. We might as well keep trying. The next time. Amy Heads out of town. He sets up another attempted hit, but once again she comes home, safe and sound. Over the next month. Stephen sets up at least five different appointments, but they all fall through for one reason or another, since getting her while she's traveling is proving difficult Stevens suggests another idea. Why don't you just kill her at our home and then burn down the house and you're assure we can do that for an extra. Five Thousand Dollars Stephen begrudgingly agrees transfers the money weights. And of course be arson doesn't happen finally, Stephen. And ultimate them. Get it done by May I I don't care when or how just it done or I want my money back. He sends over another four point, which would be a couple thousand dollars and promises another twenty one bitcoin after Amy's dead. But of course once again, Stephen comes home to find amy alive and well, and at this point he just gives up and asks for a refund. He gets a message back on May twenty. That says unfortunately this site has been hacked. We got all customer and targeted information, and we will send it to law enforcement unless you send ten Bitcoin to this address to Stephen. It was obvious that this was part of the scam he wasn't. Wasn't getting his refund, and now he was being blackmailed. He didn't pay them a cent more by all evidence. That was the last correspondent. Steven ever had with Besa Mafia. The hit never happened. He didn't get his money back. And within a couple of months, the site was shut down, but now in November. Amy was clearly dead, so what happened. Stephen was obviously involved in some way so on January seventeen. He's arrested and charged with. With second degree murder, at which point he stops cooperating entirely. He claims that he's never even heard of the dark web despite all of the evidence in his basement to the contrary. If police are going to build a case against him, they need to figure out what actually happened and who else might be involved, so they start looking at Europe. If anyone has answers, it's gotta be him, but you're is basically a ghost. No one knows. Knows who he is or where he is the base of Mafia. Server had a Romanian Ip address, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything I mean he could be using a proxy. It's impossible to trace him through his messages. Since it was all done on the encrypted tore network, and since the entire base, a Mafia site was taken down by hackers a few months ago. The police don't have any idea how to contact era at all. But. After a little bit of Web, sleuthing authorities found out. Euro wasn't working alone. There were several blogs reporting that to other people had co founded the site and Australian journalist named Eileen Ormsby, and a British programmer named Chris Montero. Now this comes as a bit of a shock, because for the past year, Eileen in Chris had both been constantly posting on their own blogs about how as a mafia was a scam. They're posts are still some of the first results that you? You come up with when you Google base a mafia, but according to these reports. That's all a decoy. Chris was the real mastermind behind the site, Eileen was in charge of promotion and marketing and euro was now Bainian mobster living in London who hooked them up with assassins, but in early two thousand sixteen, Chris and I leaned started to worry that the site was getting too much attention so to keep law enforcement off their backs. They pretended to expose base a Mafia scam. Allegedly Chris and I lean orchestrated the data leak. In April two, thousand, sixteen be only released the messages from pending customers to make it look like none of the orders were ever completed, and then they went on their personal blogs, and wrote all about how mafia was fake, so that no one would ever suspect that they were the ones running it now. Now, I totally understand that this is kind of a convoluted story, but it's the only lead that the police had gotten at this point, so the UK's National Crime Agency gets a warrant to search Chris's apartment in London. In early February two, thousand, seventeen, a team of officers break down the door to find Chris sitting on the couch, eating a bowl of. Of pumpkin soup. The living room in his place is full of computer equipment like six different monitors, all flickering with different programs, a whiteboard on the wall, covered in numbers and Aeros, and before Chris can even react. He's handcuffed after seizing his computer. The officers take him down to the station and formerly arrest him for incitement to murder when the NCAA interrogates Chris. Though he has a very different side of the story to tell, he says he's already spoken to the NCAA and the FBI and the London police and the LAPD and the counterterrorism unit. He was the one who hacked into the site and took it down if they were arresting him. They truly had no idea what they were dealing with. Coming up the truth about base mafia finally unravels now back to the story. Chris Montero is one of the leading researchers on cybercrime. He runs. The subrata are slash deep web and he's written a bunch of wicky articles including the rational Waikiki. Page on Internet assassination in February, two thousand sixteen someone edited that page to insist that base, a Mafia was real Chris had never heard of base mafia, but as far as he knew, and he knew a lot. Every hit me on for higher out. There was a scam. This one couldn't be any different. Chris isn't gonNA. GonNa let someone fill his carefully researched article with lies, so he gets on the base mafia sight to see what's going on that same day. He writes a post on his blog. Pirate Dot London about all their terrible business practices and bad web design, asserting that it has to be a scam a few weeks later. He gets an email from Europe who insists base a Mafia is real. He even says if you want us to prove that we do business, give us the name picture. Picture an address of some enemy of yours. We can send a local crime members to do a beating him. Chris politely declines, and instead he says they could just send him some news coverage of murders that they were tied to, and you're actually has a good counterpoint here, which is that no one who ordered a murder on the dark web would go out and tell the news about it, and that's impossible to argue with so. Chris doesn't try, but he does. Publish the full email. Email exchange on his blog along with some mocking commentary. Now that's it for the next couple of weeks until someone leaves a comment on that post with a link to a video, it shows someone setting a car on fire than holding up a piece of paper that says gang member for Bass Mafia on deep web dedication to pirate London ten April two thousand sixteen at this point. Chris is starting to worry about who he's gotten himself involved with. Maybe there is something going on here. Just to be sure, he signs up for base Mafia account under the name Boaty mcboatface. He orders a on a fake person that he names Bob the builder and pretty soon. He realizes there's a glaring flaw in the site design. Every message you send has a unique ID number, and if you put that number into the URL, it'll show you the message. Even if it was sent by a different user so using that technique Chris methodically scrapes every single message from the database, and what he sees is the same scheme playing out and over again a customer pays. Euro keeps stalling and up selling until they finally give up as for all those happy customers. Customers all over the web. Your had hired an army of freelance writers making sure that they use the right buzzwords, so they're review would show up first on the page in the search results now Chris had nothing to do with the hack and the data leak in April two thousand sixteen, but you're apparently thought he did so. He used the same strategy to fill the web with articles. Claiming Chris was a disgruntled Co founder of the site. In hindsight, they shouldn't have been convincing enough to fool international law enforcement, though especially because ever since the league. Chris had been trying and failing to get the NCAA and the FBI to take base a Mafia seriously. But he just kept getting passed around to different police agencies, because no one was sure whose jurisdiction it was, and frankly because it didn't seem like a top priority, some Romanian scumbag is scamming murderers. Good for them, but even if it was a scam, Chris figured correctly that some of the people might try to kill their targets by other means. This was a dangerous scam to leave running unattended Chris did the only thing he could think. He hacked into base a Mafia and took it offline. He replaced the homepage with a picture of a closed door with the text after six months of scamming criminals for their bitcoins in stealing over sixty five thousand dollars. The site has closed. No one was ever beaten up or killed for good measure he. He also sets the page to auto play so long farewell from the sound of music, but that wasn't the end of it. You're had started a new nearly identical site called Crime Bay he hadn't updated security all so Chris was still able to read all the sites messages, and it was the same scam all over again Chris, finally convinced the investigators to go look at his computer. They'd find everything that he was talking about the hacked data from crime, Bay the messages from Europe and of course his emails with their colleagues in the NCAA. After a long Dana half of questioning, they finally cleared Chris and let him go, but there was still one glaring question. If base a Mafia wasn't real, then who killed amy all wine? As it turns out. It was all stephen when he couldn't find anyone to kill amy for him. He drugged her and shot her himself. In March two dozen seventeen, his charge was upgraded from second degree murder to first degree murder, and he would eventually be found guilty and sentenced to life in prison, but if there is any silver lining to this tragedy, it's that the NCAA finally started to take base a mafia, seriously or crying bay, as it was now called in May of two thousand, seventeen, the NCAA shutdown the crime bay site and started tracking down the users to prevent another alwine situation. A few people were arrested for soliciting murder, but only one was actually charged an Italian woman who was sentenced to six years for ordering a hit on her ex boyfriend. Your though was never found. And within months he had set up another site called Cosa Nostra. It was rebranded again and again with the names of different mob groups, Sicilian hit-men Yakuza mafia brought the Mafia. It seemed like nothing could bring him down all the while he kept emailing Chris. weirdly. You're a now. Openly admitted that his sites were a scam, but he said that was the reason not to. To take them down in his mind, he was stopping crime by wasting time and money of aspiring killers as your wrote to journalist. John Volpicelli if you intend to report HITMAN SCAMS, you're basically citing up with those would be murderers, helping them to avoid scams and traps, and helping them to find other means to do their kill. It is a moral right to scam criminals and would be murderers. chirp maybe he has a little bit of a point, but clearly stealing money from these people isn't going to stop them from committing the murder on their own. It's just delaying the inevitable. If he doesn't share all of the information, he collects with police. He's partially responsible if anything happens. But it does seem like eight as murder. Your had a bit of a change of heart even if he didn't change his business practices at all. In two thousand eighteen CBS show forty eight hours, didn't episode on Hitman for hire sites and they actually reached out to Europe or comment amazingly, he started sending the producers, the names of some of his customers and targets. He apparently wanted to prove that he was serious about stopping crime. As tips lead the arrest of four of his own clients. An army specialist was sentenced to fifteen years for the attempted murder of his pregnant girlfriend. A nurse in Illinois got ten years for attempted murder of her lover's wife, and a man in Singapore tried to kill his ex lover's new boyfriend, and he got five years for that. There was even a California man who was. was sentenced to three years for ordering a hit on his stepmother, and his sense was lighter, because even though the full cost of the job was nine thousand dollars, he'd only paid about three dollars before forty eight hours tipped off the police, but not every story had a happy ending in June two thousand eighteen. Someone ordered the murder of twenty one year old Brian Girogio. WHO WAS ON LEAVE IN INDIANA? Now you're a didn't follow through on this hit as usual but a week later, Brian was found dead from a gunshot wound to the head under the stared at a local baseball field. This is hard to believe, but even though the police were tipped off about the hit order, they didn't investigate Brian's death at all. It was ruled a suicide and the case was closed within A. A couple of days, so this could be the second death linked to yours website, but it's impossible to say for sure at the very least when the forty eight hours special aired in September, two, thousand eighteen, it meant yours as days were numbered in June of two thousand nineteen. He emailed forty eight hours saying that unfortunately after your show, the business has decreased tremendously. People concluded that the site is a scam. Now there's really no surprise there. But he also claimed that he was getting out of the murder business and had opened a restaurant as strange as it sounds. This was the detail, but might finally give up yours identity with the help of an intelligence analyst. Forty eight hours was able to connect some of the hacked data from one of yours dark web sites to an email address that belongs to an older Russian woman living in New York City from there, they found an. An email address for her son in law, which contained the words gun and Killa that man had moved to the US in the nineteen nineties owned Tech Company and had recently bought a restaurant forty eight hours, actually tracked this man down in New York City in early twenty twenty. They ambushed him on the street and asked him. Are You Ura? The man denied having any idea what they were talking about. In claimed, someone must have stolen his identity, but his reactions were bizarrely. Though like he started to get a little bit violent and the forty eight hours team ended up running back to the van before things got out of control. They never got a full interview with the man, and they've never released his name, but based on his behavior. It's totally probable that he could be Ura. And that seems to be the last. Anyone has seen or heard from Europe it. That was really him law enforcement. Is that interested in catching him? Even though his scam sites have brought in an estimated millions of dollars over the past few years. He clearly has never actually killed a person. The real criminals are the customers themselves. I wish I could say that. We could rest easy knowing that there aren't any assassins lurking on the dark web, but the fact that so many people are trying to get random acquaintances or people they love, or no or used to love killed is terrifying on its own. These targets aren't bad people. Their mothers, unsuspecting husbands and wives. Some are even children. There's an old truism that the Internet brings out the worst in human behavior. You're a nameless faceless account on a screen, so you can do or say pretty much anything without fear of consequences. That's what the real horror is about the dark web, the complete anonymity you get to see how people behave when they think no one is watching, and you might find out that the people you love are just monsters in disguise. Thanks for listening. I'll be back next week with another episode. You can find all episodes of supernatural and all other podcast originals for free on spotify spotify has all your favorite music and podcasts all in one place, and they're making it easier to listen to whatever you want to hear for free on your phone, computer or Smart Speaker. And if you like this show, follow up podcast on facebook and Instagram, and how podcast network on twitter. Supernatural was created by Max Cutler and stars Ashley Flowers and is a podcast studios original. It's executive produced by Max Cutler sound design by Karie, Murphy with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Carly Madden. This episode of Supernatural was written by Kate Gallagher with writing assistance by drew coal to hear more stories hosted by me Checkout Crime Junkie and audio check originals.

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MTV Families of the Mafia part 2

Spill it, Sister! Reality TV recaps with Ally

43:54 min | 3 months ago

MTV Families of the Mafia part 2

"Hey I'm Leah and I'm Ali and we're sisters who watched trash. Tv together in. This is bill it says sir. Hello everyone welcome back to Philip sister. Podcast families of the Mafia addition. You are here with Ali and I'm Leah. And it's part two we got to episodes in one night. But we're just going to cover part two for this episode and then our next episode we'll cover part three. Yes so you guys will receive it all at once but we wanted to break it up because it is a lot to talk about. We are really diving deep into the Mafia family now and we have so much more information on all these guys which is super exciting because the first episode was not our normal APP to par for what we normally watch on. The show's it was just introducing everybody when we watched families the Mafia so I'm excited to get into the nitty gritty of all of this. So to say yeah we have some dramas stirring up. We're starting to see how everyone interacts with each other. So things are definitely getting more interesting. So those of you who may have been like Lake Nona most interesting thing like yeah. They just had to introduce us to everyone. These guys are such a cast of characters so we knew it was going to get more interesting. Yeah and we're definitely going to cover this a little bit different than our normal shows because this isn't a complete shit show. I'm so you're not. GonNa get your love after lockup style or ninety days style from we're going to cover this more of like a documentary with a little bit of thrown in there for sure. Great way of putting it Allie. Thanks I try okay. Well let's jump right in with the Girvan Os and we still have Karen incurring in In Arizona and they're kind of talking about how. This is a great opportunity for Sammy to show his side of the story of what happened. And you know just to clarify that DAB. Karen's mom yeah and me are not married anymore right. Yes I felt like mentioned that last episode. Okay or somehow they got a divorce like back in ninety six so who is living with Sammy and this. John mentioned that he has is at him by myself. I feel like it's just him by himself. Dama downsides to the Mafia because I'm not seeing them right now sorry. I'm just going to say it. Either there's definitely downsides but hey I mean he's got a great house he also had to spend nineteen years in jail so there's one downside I know but I guess I was thinking that Deb was just running everything and keeping the money of afloat which she still could have a lot and I thought maybe she got the house and everything was in her name. And that's why but no like as House yes. She's got her own separate house. That's much smaller. Yeah that's why I'm damn girl you get a cut out of that. That's for sure are not a big enough cut so we see deb talking and pleading again with Karen talking about how she really wants carrying and Carina to come and stay with her. She talks about how herself deb and Karen were kind of a team growing up. Because Samuel was in jail Gerard was in and out of jail. Who at first I was like? Who The hell's that? Who's are other by not later. That's the brother. Yeah we're all in and out of jail and the women had to hold it down together and it's so funny because you compare that to Karen and Corinna they're like Same situation now and even Karina brings it up later in the episode. She's like history repeated itself. It's the same thing and it is so fun. I duNNo. It's crazy how that happens. It's such a different world. Now that Corinna is growing up in in what caring her up in because here and grew up around other mob families where that was the norm. And that's just what you did. The women they home and they took care of the failure. They cooked they held it all down and that was life too bad. You don't like to wear Corinne is not growing up in that world. She can do her own thing if she wants to. You know her mom wants her to go off to college. Karen says I just can't leave. Corinna she wants to stay in. Staten Island. I don't WanNA leave. Her girlfriend is twenty. I know only are about all these kids. These kids or at least twenty years old and there are like I don't know if it's just a cultural thing but their parents are just so worried and they still refer to them as like kids and like yes. They're they're they're they're kids but they're not kids. They're adults they're baby. I need to hold your hand. I've got to walk you through this. I'm going to be there for you. I'm like look if you can get tried as an adult in the system. It's time for Mommy and daddy to cut that umbilical cord. Yeah I agree Ari Borey. They can get jobs. They can live on their own. It's not going to hurt them to live by themselves. Note they'll just figure it out like we all did too damn in the south. Do we throw our young to the wild like sink or Swim Bitch. So doggy dog world down here. Y'All so then we have corinna looking just fabulous by the pool. She's got cute little bikini on. She has her long nails like fabulous sunglasses. I was like I just can't like she's just oozing fabulous. I love it. She is she's gorgeous. She's got a call. Polly got a check in on hand. Sure he misses her. Miss Me Miss You. Every five minutes good and she starts talking about her dad and his name is Dave Day which this reminds me of baby Dave. Sorry geist from Ninety Day so she talks about her dad and the fact that he has last arrest. He's you know been arrested a few times last arrest. He went to jail for nine years for drugs and after that got remarried had two kids who are young pretty young. They look to be what about six or seven. Yeah Yeah And so she gets to go and hang out with her dad and he's like yeah. I missed you. And he's like we haven't really God you and she's like bond. Yeah I know. And she's just straight up starts like calling him al. Yeah that's hard too because we later find out. The reason that he went to jail was because of Cairns family. Yeah so we get this whole breakdown of the fact that there was a whole drug bust on the whole family and the men made a deal which. I didn't even know this was a thing. Oh yeah all the men can be like. We'll take the heat for it. Ladies stay home you're good and then all the ladies just got probation. None of them had to go to jail. I mean raising. Yeah you can make a deal ever you want now. The thing is with the deals. You have to have something right so these men. It ends up being Sammy Gerard. Which is Karen's brother in Dave? Which at the time was Karen's husband. They didn't divorce until Karina was like tens. I guess right before he got out of jail or right when you went into jail. They got a divorce Obviously the ball's going to have some stuff right. He can leverage with he can he? He has the type of evidence where he can make those types of deals not a drug dealer. Sling an ecstasy on the corner is going to be able to walk in and say this is what happened to you In that moment as ironic as it is a kind of had the power Sammy and Gerard had the power to say. I. I'll give you this if you don't let the women take any of the heat right and Arizona was like cool. I mean we're about to get one of NYC's biggest crime bosses. This is great for US. So we're going to take it. Yeah and it's like the women are only GonNa do so much with the men locked up. You know what I mean so from the you know from the authorities perspective. Yeah complicating something either way. Yeah I and they were like look. We've kids involved in this. You know and They try to keep it as clean as possible. Yep and we get to meet Gerard. Apparently he's a business owner to just like Karen and I'm not sure what his businesses that's what I was going to ask. I never caught what it was like. This is my office so he has an office. There was a little. I'm not sure he did say. Welcome to the restaurant business to Karen. So I don't know maybe. He has multiple businesses. Maybe restaurant tour. He's not allowed to get jaywalking ticket. Nope the speed nothing. He cannot go back to jail or he has done with. Yup and Sammy is like on his ass. He's like nope don't do it. Dari is probably not a fan of Sandy. Be Out probably actually go back to prison. My life is now. Yeah exactly and then kind of during this meeting with Gerard carrying gets a call from Ryan and Ryan is the pizza chef at the mob restaurant. And he's like yes. Oh like basically everything's fucking broken. We don't have any and like the whole restaurants falling apart and she's like okay cool so like what's the other owner doing about? Yeah I wanNA where is she not here like she took the day off which is a different story that we get from? Ramono and they start talking about it later on but right thing we don't know which is the Truth Brian. It cracks me up when Karen says I love her to death. I love her. She's like my friend. We've always been oil and water. It's my cousin. That's my family but I don't like her as a pizza girl pizza girl like I don't know so funny. God Yeah so they leave Arizona and they come back to the restaurant and there's a million things that need to be done And She Ramona comes in like she's not to be bothered by any of this. These customers walk in. They WanNa have a nice lunch. She's not even looking at them when she talks to them. She's was like cool. He's going to help you out. Here's all the great salads. Wehab walking away unfazed by then carrying gets pissed. Okay can you stop trying to be a beauty queen please? Let's talk about this Ramona. And these nice people want a New York style pizza. They did understand that they were also going to get a side dish of hotness express. And you're going at it literally screaming and then she's like I gotta come over here. That can help you quick switch. She just did. There are people in New York used to this. Is this how you walk into every restaurant? I guess so I mean I know it's allowed in Hustle Bustle City but goodness. This is a lot to handle. I have walked out like Nope I I looked at the reviews because I was surely. If this is happening in that restaurant they have to have horrible review. Great Okay. Great reviews almost all star. Honestly sign me up dinner and a show. I'm here I would come on. Most love twin Karen was like sticking out her Lipton. She's like I'm Ramona. Like mocking her. Like Oh my God you can see like. They really are like lifelong friends. 'cause yeah they're going to have this crazy fight the most people would be like. Oh my God this is like you can't come back from this. They'll be fine. Yeah they don't care whatever they have a glass of wine get over it. I know yeah so then. Kinda talk about like what are we gonNA do like or like does Ramon? You take a back seat. Obviously she's not as invested as Karen is. So what are we gonNA do about this remote? She stage he's Tasmanian. Devil all over this bitch and she's not going anywhere. I haven't seen her move faster than a turtle yet so I have yet to see any kind of Tasmanian Devil action happening get. We don't know what pizzas. She's been delivering. We don't know pizzas. Meanwhile Ryan are you under the bus thing. You took the day off. Yeah he had to go get pizza dough from a completely different restaurant just to keep the doors open. What a mess. That's so stressful. Not is stressful. This is why I'm not in the restaurant business. Yeah no thank you and we also see Corinne or call her Karen earlier carrying Corinna Curry. Sorry guys these names are too similar for. I know so. We have Karen having lunch with Gina. Yeah and they're kind of discussing that. They both have very similar pass. They talk about how they met and it was through their kids. 'cause I guess their kids were friends first so our kids went to high school together. Yeah and their friends and hang out yes and they were also on the TV show made in Staten Island. Mtv Did if anybody watched those first few episodes this is a continuation of that they just restructured a bit right so I kind discuss this off the show that like a lot of it is probably footage that was from that show that is now being re purposed into this show. Yeah it definitely is. There's a lot more details about like that show versus the show online so interesting stuff. It is very interesting so then we have so. We have Karen at lunch with Gina. They're talking about their past. They talk about whenever their homes were raided and they like just you know swap stories about their home rating. No big deal. You know a lot of women go to launch and only talking about different recipes talking about like what's working for your K- what's working on my husband do the laundry. I'm so pissed my husband didn't do this. I know growing I get him to do that. These are like oh your house got raided cool mine to oh well. You're there. Nope well guess what mine was so I just got ten more points. And they threw bombs in the window. I had to put her in the closet. Did you have helicopters? No God yours just like so low key so chill chill home invasion. Yeah and gene is like yeah. There was some shit on the table a Okoth which piece it together it was cocaine. There was cocaine. Yeah of course at for I will for the first time she said. Shit on the table and like so you were like shitting on the table. And that's kind of growth and then. I was sitting in the second time she's like. Oh Yeah Shit on the table. Yeah this it or anybody else. Pick that up because she was. We know that because she was eventually convicted of cocaine possession. Yet based off of this so Yeah so that's that meeting and we get we get to see Gina having such a liable moment that she can get her record sealed and very specifically Karen Says Field. Not Fun and what I can get my records expunged. She liked takes that and runs with it. Yeah I guess I. I don't know I'm a little worried about GINA A tad. Because how did you not know I knew you could get record sealed or you could get cases expunge their two different things happening on what you have so for her she was like. What did you just say ruling? She was acting as though this was a a whole new concept to her. Because Okay so you've gone through all the process and done this and like yeah. This is what I did. This is how I did it and gene is like no a girl. Who are you running with? That clue you in now. One person in your life when you were in the middle of this told her about it or or she didn't like research at all. It's just very crazy to me. Maybe for the show. She was just acting like she didn't know about it. But maybe because yeah does she survive today like she says. I can't get a Job. I can't go into a Deli and get a job because I have felonies. Nobody will hire me. I'm like so. How do you pay your bills? 'cause I'm pretty sure. She lives with her boyfriend. I don't think so I thought she does. I don't know it was. It was an article I read online. And if you guys haven't seen article that we wrote. We did like a very brief kind of summary about each of the families and Some of its spoilers ish though your spirits and through podcasts dot com you can see that article But I thought that I read that. She lives with their somebody new. But at this time we'll get into it more an episode three expose all of that and when this was being filmed she did not love with anybody else. Okay good to know Yeah so we'll we'll touch more on that later. Let's talk about the tools. We have just claire. She calls over. She's like sit down down. We have to talk with talk. And she's going to Florida to visit her grandma mother mom. Yeah for two months for two months. And they're like we're we supposed to go to live. I don't know maybe you should league. Just pay your own bills. Get Your own job just an idea. I Dunno crazy. I know Taylor like for you. You have a good boyfriend but Joe. You're fucked sorry Bro. Go to your figure it out. She's really not worried about it at this point in her life you know being twenty twenty one. Yeah exactly I agree and so job. Basically says I'M GONNA move in with that like I have no problem with that in Taylor's like F that not happening no thank you. We find out. Joe has been arrested. Thirteen Times yeah. That's a lot of times. He says not that much. I mean I've I've been. That are us that many times just thirteen times. It's a lot of time not as a lot of times. How are you so yeah? I don't know that's a lot but then we get to. We're going to have a house party because it's our last night in the house really now. He's got to have a house party. You're gone you're getting. You're moving out of the house. Why Not Their House party? It's party gave me so much anxiety. I don't know what it was. I was just like stressed from the moment it started. I was like yeah. This is just a terrible idea and so they have a chill party he says at one point Joe says it's going to be a chill potty and then the next moment he's like it's about to be Hugh Hefner's house up in here. I'm like witches at Joe. I Know Brady. Whoever I don't care I got a keg. Bring whoever that is. Never a good thing to say. That's when I knew it was going to go south because when you sailing bring whoever somebody's GonNa show up another person doesn't match with. That's how shit happens Cut To this kid is asleep at a table first of all. How long have y'all been drinking? I feel like I've only been there for ten minutes. Why don't fuck is he asleep? And it was so bright in there too like and they're just like in the kitchen like what are y'all doing. There's no way that kid was just drunk. He had to be on something else to be passed out like that. I've seen people be passed out drunk like that like so. Like what maybe slams some stuff I don't know but might oprah game you never know a course the camera guys trying to zoom in on his face which. I don't blame him thank you. Thank you camera guy. We appreciate your work. Joe Is not having it. No He's like get Outta here. This is my house. This is my house Taylor is like. She's always just trying to calm him down like just chill chill. Whatever and I'm like we missed a lot of shit because eventually we have Mama just Claire. Having dinner with Joe. And she's like the house was a fucking disaster when I pay home. You see three holes in the wall. He's like it was. It was immaculate. It was immaculate. Wasn't it? She's like Bucknell a was it. Are you crazy you probably thought? Because he like suiffered the floors it was going to go like no. There are three holes in the wall. Do like that's terrible and those people just sold the HAL. Your landlord just sold the house. So now like you're screwed somebody who's GONNA have to pay to fix that? Shit Y'all get not deposit back. No He's like. Yeah Mama's boy what can I say? Okay chess is going to beat your ass. That's what I'm going to say and she's rightfully so worried about what's going to happen when she leaves for Florida done with that is behind me. Had been arrested in a while is famous last words of everybody. Who's about to mess something up every Single Day So then we get to spend some time with a Laura's we have EP meeting up with his probation officer. This girl don't play chef not play and we get his charges again. It was attempted murder assault one assault to an assault three no a joke their attempts yard or Tian at seventeen bad. It's sad so she the probation officer tells him you're either need to be working in school or in a program. What programs is she referring to like a like recovery program good or alcohol management? Whatever just like therapy. I gas or they had Organized groups like a for use. That are going through things a that. He could be going to graduate from and say. Hey I'm working on myself. She gave she got into me so I don't know how he wasn't scared of this woman I would not mess with. I would not cross her. She said you would rather go into alliance in with the workshop then crossed me like has she always use that line or did she. Just come up with the moment. But that's my favorite new lied. I'M GONNA use it for everything now. We need that on his shirt. Yes we do for sure so basically. He has six months to get ten days of community service. That was a nothing plenty. Oh time plenty. He's got that in the bag dude like if he doesn't do that and then we get a CPA and stoop kid never leaves do with family with the whole crew. I loved it. They were having a ball yet. Everybody's talkin drinking their wine outside or whatever they had not glass. He's catching a vibe eleven. I loved it and he gets a phone call from his Dad Christian. They're just chatting. Suddenly mom calls in on three way. Yeah have merged her head and they're having one big happy family. Conversation is like hey guys look at me. I'm talking to my parents like some kind of normal guy like talking to his parents. What is this? Which is it's funny but it is really sad to that. That's probably all this kid wants. You know is like living on the street with both my parents. It's like sad because he's twenty years old and no no once sat more yearning for that happy ending. It's at this point like let's be honest. It's not going to happen but anyone. Yeah he still wants it sad. You can be eighty-five and still want that. Like everybody wants that traditional just like family so yeah Gene Gene Kris Jenner. Like fighting on the phone and like Curtian thing that like. She still loves him. I was what is happening phone call. I think that's her love language. It's fighting I think so. The six love language fighting confrontation. It's a winter yup so then we have GINA meeting up with her lawyer death and he has to explain the difference between stealing and punching. Yeah go hey. Let's let's talk about this year and you need to tell me your charges and she's like honestly I don't know I your cartridges. I was surprised by too. Maybe she's just like blocking it out because she wants to move on so she's just like I don't even want to think about it like she just put it in the back of her memory. But you don't know if you have a misdemeanor versus a felony crazy to me. She says okay. Ninety eight rated possession of cocaine the other guy fall and said it was his right then. She has another charge. Two thousand to two ounces coke she went to rikers island and then did a program and got out and that's it crazy doesn't sound so bad. I mean it is horrible that for everybody on this show to charges what she went through. It's not horrible agreed. And we've watched love after lockup much crazier Shit and people are to jail for much less so like it really didn't sound data to me either. Yeah look at. You could only expunge one felony so we have to figure out how many you have right. My question is why he pulled up right then and there was like okay. Well you have to go downtown and get all your records. It's public record. Oh you maybe. She wasn't paying him for that. Maybe he'd was like all you can charge like a charge. You an additional five hundred dollars and she's like no. I don't know I mean Gina Girl. Get on a computer. You can look it up. I can look it up. Hell no you know. Hit US up. Then we'll tell you about your record. I really really for you. Yeah honestly no joke all right. So then we get finally meet the Augustine's briefly I mean good Lord. We've waited long enough and we are at Lisa's house. We're having some kind of party. Did they ever talk about whose birthday or what are we doing party? It's Denny's graduate from college and she graduated with a mass communications degree. I loved any I do too. I want her to be our best friend. I oh my gosh. I've never let anyone. What's her podcasts? I do across. I really hope. Cast is called intellectual. Thought because Yeah I love it. I love it when she called herself. That intellectual thought out here just like doing my thing. I love it. Her mom was so embarrassed. She basically like bitch. I don't need you I can do this. For the both of US gives us a great impersonation of Lisa who apparently Vegan God. I have four children to baby daddies. Oh my God. She's such a riot like what fun friends to have like. That's the fun friend. You heard every party like you. WanNa go to dinner with her. She's a blast. I WANNA see her online is blind. That's what I want. Ooh I would love that. Yes I mean if no man has like lockdown any yet like y'all crazy she's fabulous. Oh yeah she's winter. I'm here for Daddy. I'm here for her. That's my fear animal right there. I'm a boss ass bitch who loves that. I love it got so many. One liners so quick with it. Oh with this she not like your ideal you are okay so then we get a little back story which I had read this Story online before where Ramona bit. Lisa's leg as a child. There was some kind of fight going down. I'm sure this is just like they're not story to relive child. They were teenagers. They were in high. Oh okay well. Lisa was in a different friend group than Ramona and Karen and they had mutual friends getting into a fight and so carrying a remote are like all right. We gotTA square up in a like Lisa jumped. It prints die and Ramona was took a chunk out of her leg to bite outta crime row. Wow now they're all the best of friends. I love it. I love it so Trish. They're just clear they're they're talking about C P they're talking about you know just all of their lives and how crazy they are and they're just drinking white claws and wine. Yeah I love been just like I can't take anybody but myself. Yes pre traits are alarming Tell them yeah. They're all just like bad ass. Bitches are like yeah we just like had to get out there and work and like make shit happen. Yeah because the men were doing anything they take care of the house. Get somebody how to hold it now. I love it all right. So we're ending the episode today with the night out on the town. We start out with C. P. hanging out with Carina Danny. They're just chilling by the car. Chitchatting about life getting a little deep talking about how they've dealt with their GRANDPA their father in jail and Christian talks about. Cpi talks about having a relationship with Christian is Dad And it all starts out pretty fine in. Yeah you you see that. All of these kids have a lot to relate to with each other. And that's why they're such good friends is because they were basically raised by single parent at one time or another yet has denny's dad is not in the picture And they have a bond that nobody else will really be able to relate to like. Hey you know. Cpa and Corinna can be like okay. We'll her parents were were in jail. We've been we've seen like both ends of the spectrum of it now knowing you know it's time to shake it off. Let's go out have a good night with all of our friends from High School. We all hang out and chill. It's going to be so great. Can't wait till Arizona. I'm like back in the hustle bustle of New York. Time to work off my kneecaps I will say another great one liner from Denny. That she wouldn't be the queen that she is today if data had been in the picture and that has such a good. I know that this is like maybe controversial but I feel like that's such a good way to look at it. It really is. We all have baby complicated relationships with our pants or parents who weren't present or whatever going on and if you can take that and be like you are who you are today and be thankful for who you are because you went through those struggles like God any like that. Just hit me deep. I was like Oh yes girl. I think that that shows that denny has really. She's dealt with it and she started to heal. That doesn't mean that the trauma is gone. It's just mean that she's that just means that she's accepted it and she's healed from it. His if you listened to any of our love after lockup episode you I talk a lot about like how Michael triggers me because of the way he is with his kids from what I went through and I was like yes because I when I was at an age where I went through all of this. That's how I started to look at things like I would not be the person I am too. I would not be the wife or the mother I am today. Had I not gone through that and had it up? Her had not left my life. There's no way in like I look at it in a positive way to win. Denny said unlike yes clean like you own that Shit you deserve it. You totally deserve. He didn't he was not meant to be in your life because he was not good enough for you. Exactly I love that so I just I just can't say it enough. I just stand any. I love her so then we go out. We're out at the bar. Everyone's hanging out we got Taylor and Joe showing up with their crew by chance. Notice the name of the Bar Mugshots. Yeah how fucking ironic. Why do you choose their to go? Why can we just pick a bar? That has nothing to do with getting trouble in trouble with the law. Like please anywhere else. Somewhere called mugshots. Just not a good omen for all of these folks little irony there but yeah and immediately. I what Taylor talks about is like this. Look on Joe so I though- too. I mean he's got this crazy days. Look where it's just like. He's ready to fight. Yeah he's stealing Heidari he's GonNa let me take your drink sucking Look Joe Joe. Is Everything okay? She's like here. We go on just a little shout outs. A four amateur here whenever like shits about to go down. They always say they're Hogson. Senses Tingling just like to opposite ends of the spectrum here but I'm like yeah. I like those hog sentences like everyone had their hogson tingling. Like you could just feel it. Some shit was about to go down. You knew it. Yeah and this Dr champion Dr Champion to watch outs. We got a fat ass with us. He gets all up in Jos. Faith I'm like can you back up to like? He was being so rude Dr Champion. He was just trying to get his. Swedish jacket on. Mtv He's out Repin for the island. Oh my gosh. That was so crazy. Joe Joe is not having not having some touching my face like anyone touching my face either like you in into that was fine. I thought oh about to happen. No we're good. We're good we're fine suddenly out of nowhere polly who is corrine as boyfriend right. He's him and Joe Start. Getting into it. I didn't really understand where this came. Okay I didn't either. I rewound. This watched a few times and I still couldn't figure it out. Polly walks and talks to Corinna. Whatever says how Larry earls walks over to joe and Joe's basically you're not about to disrespect me like that and like what are you talking about? Like maybe like he didn't say hi to him. I or citing that. He addressed him in the way that Joe wanted to be address. I don't know I really didn't get it. And they must have a history a history. I need to go back and watch made in. Staten Island do you think that? Like Joe and Taylor ever had something going on. Maybe I don't know not because they're twins so that all right Joe in showing Corinna sorry no joe in Carina ever had something and so maybe there's some jealousy between poly and Joe. I don't know I don't know. We need to look more into that but either way they had some issues something whether it was across look or the handshake wasn't the right way. They were not okay with it and Corinne is like they're both hotheads. Something's going to happen. Yes that Kinda blows over to a little bit more but then the the bouncer slash bar manager owner. Whoever guys the yoga break it up like we're not on this shit and like he doesn't kick out polly kicks out Joe. Only which. I'm like. That kinda sucks. It sucks to be like the guy who gets kicked out whenever like someone else was involved in it too but the joe had already been disrespectful because one he saw happen at the bar and then he said Joe the bartender and the girl snapped at him. Remember and said you're not gonNA talk to be like that like I'm not going to serve you. Joe Had already been a little loud and the Guy Kinda new like here. We are young kids and here. He knows like these bunches. Staten Island. Kids allowed and cocky. We have cameras and here. He paalea closely And so he gets kicked ow and Becky with hair shaggy like she okay so first of all they were like he was like telling her to kiss him earlier in the club and kissed him and then she follows him outside and she's like listen to me. This is not okay like. She gets the deepest like Maria with him. I was like you're so intense becky like I thought she was gonNA keep head headed like. Let's just go watch what her voice sounded like. Yeah we're GONNA be of that. Take Talk Dog. I knew a bitch named Becky. I've seen that I haven't seen artist. Send it to you. But that's all I could think about dying laughing. Better not chill at all. She seemed chill and then she just really wasn't chill so she they go outside then they come back in and I saw them going through that walkway and I'm like surely they're not going back into this bar. Yeah they did. He goes different right just right back in and of course the bar is about two hundred square feet. He's like excuse me. I told you to leave like into the bar. The bar manager guy kicked them out and he's like I know I know the owners. I know the owners cool. Like you're making a Ruckus like you gotta go and then the manager guy pushes them like. He's shoves them out the door. And so that just makes him snap and BECKY SNAPS. Becky like going after the manager like he goes crazy like becky lost her. Damn mind. Becky's crazy so all the kids go out go. Production has to get involved. A has they called the Cau- yeah we we don't want you guys to get arrested like y'all got to go. Yeah Joe is so drunk. He's like no top did even do anything. Tell me full. This is not the time to get the expert Get out the car. But then he's like worried about getting becky in the car. Lincoln per over his shoulder like adds up in the air. It was crazy it was seen so much happening. Becky'S A dam seal. She's like throwing her back up and down trying to get away from him like. Do you WanNa clap and makes them see noise are I thought he was going to drop her for a minute. Like he's going to have to go to the hospital. She won't win the car so I'm thinking okay. Josina get in the car and lever. No show up in your rested. Get your ass in the back of the car and all. I can think is poor just clear. She Ain't GonNa Florida back. Get your has your name your dreams of laying on the beach hanging with your mom snipping on my ties out the window. Poor just glares on that suggested for just glare a high no. She just sees -cation she does. She was trying to go hang out in Florida for a couple of months. Take a load off. I don't blame her poor girl a so. That's the episode. That's we end it and I can't even imagine I have watched the next one yet but I know you have said it was crazy. I can't even imagine because I mean. Yeah that was a lot Yup I'm excited for you to watch episode. Three I'm excited to keep covering this with you. Guys I ordered Karen spoke mob daughter. Anna also ordered the book about it. But it's all about him he's cases and everybody know who wrote it I remember the guy that the guy's name that base but apparently it's from Sammy's point of view he spoke with somebody gave all the interviews. Okay then jail. And then they wrote it on his behalf yet because so far episode one and two. They've talked a lot about Sammy showing his side of the story. But we have. We just heard generalities. We haven't necessarily heard details about his side of the story so hope. That's strumming oh. It's coming in episode. Three I'm excited yet. Just like it's we're starting to get like a little tidbits. Bits and pieces. Yeah I'm glad this show Is happening I mean. I think it's a interesting take. I think there's been lots of attempts at a show like this and I think the aspect of dealing with it from the aspect of families and the kids and the parents and those dynamics and how does this work when someone's in jail and you know the kids trying to stay out of trouble it's very I opening and just the great quarantine entertainment people it is and they show it in a better light than love after walkup because of such a circus you cannot no bad for these people were bad for the people involved with Michael and Sarah. You feel bad for the kids but right with Michael and Sarah both come on you guys are feeding and you can sympathize with them to where here like when you hear about the D. A. Rated Karen's house and Corinna was hiding in a closet and she was thinking. Oh my God I'm about to lose my child Do you start sympathizing of like. I can't imagine what that felt like as a mom and then you think how is the mom? Do you put yourself in that situation but then you also have to think right after that while Shit. That's how she was raised. Then make a right. But she doesn't know any different absolutely. Yeah it's quite thought provoking especially if you're doing it with your parents right. Hey Yeah her dad in her. This was a whole family affair. So I'm sure in your mind you have to think like it's okay because I'm doing this with my family. Of course you know our course. Of course you think that way The book by is by Peter Mass. And it's called underboss. Sammy the Bull Grovonni story cool. I'm excited to see what insight we have for now. I'm really excited to start reading it. All right guys well. That's the episode. Thanks for listening and we will have part three of families of the mafia coming out right after this so just have that cute up to listen to right after this episode. In if WANNA see more about our thoughts on these families go to spill PODCAST DOT COM. Lots of fun posts that we do on our instagram podcast and will catch you on the next episode. You guys were also covering love is blind. Have One more episode of that but you can subscribe and get the rest of our episodes of love is blind or you'd also stay tuned for. Mtv's the challenge absolutely talked to you leader buying is.

Karen Joe Joe Corinna Curry Sammy Gerard Arizona Gina Girl New York Staten Island Taylor Corinne Florida BECKY SNAPS Mtv Mafia cocaine Carina Danny US Denny Karina
3: Roy DeMeo (Part 1)

Mafia

37:13 min | 10 months ago

3: Roy DeMeo (Part 1)

"It was a mob crew sanctioned for murder by the New York Mafia and led by Gangster Roy Demeo what Henry Ford was sitting on in the nineteen seventies people on the streets of New York City began disappearing without a trace but it wasn't a serial killer on the loose meeting with a man named Anthony Nino Gadji Gadji was a mafia captain in the infamous Gambino crime family at the time the but what happened when some of the cogs in that machine started to rust this is Mafia Roy demeo was raised in Bath Beach in South Brooklyn family was headed by notorious crime boss Paul Castellano for Demeo it was the first step on the path to becoming a made man where Mr Gadji was gentleman very much of the old school very close to Paul Castellano Roy was the the person who got cats Roy demeo rose from money laundering cash grabber and car thief into creating a smooth operating mafia murder machine Mayo also wanted to be successful a successful mobster male started as a butcher's apprentice but from a young age officially part of the Mafia Joe Wenling is a former NYPD officer who specialized in the mom you've had made you became in sixty s it had started to become a sophisticated operation and it had caught the attention of the mob one day he received a call for ladder he was made associate working in partnership with Getty on various schemes to increase each other's wealth they had a good partnership age he was running his own illegal business he loaned out money to local kids and beat them if they couldn't pay back the high interest by the late ninety respect for human life no respect for anybody in their time working for the mob the demeo crew is said to have killed almost two hundred people he grew up in a poor household but his uncles were successful was a prosecutor the second was a forensic scientist their business ventures had the same interests Walter Mack was the prosecutor who worked on building the DEMEO case I think in many ways if they stepped out of line in the mafia they could be killed just as easily people would be killed because happen to accompany a target of the EO was doing what any mafia boss wants he was making lots and lots of money on the streets you know have people working for them with gadgets connections demeo expanded his loansharking book and Soon Roy D. Take a chance of getting convicted of narcotics possession on it the came down was to kill Andrea uh-huh Andrea got tinged for narcotics and they were afraid like everything else was he would read out to the police by then what was necessary to protect the family so I think often those relationships are similar to that there are people who are earners who basically work on things don on the street he was the earner he was the one that was involved in the business and was the want to see that if there was any risk that business he could roll his sleeves up and do a coffee company but he was having trouble finding qualified applicants so he switched to Ziprecruiter Ziprecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire defied candidates fast dylan posted his job on Ziprecruiter and said he was impressed by how quickly he had great candidates apply he also used Ziprecrui you it finds them for you it's technology identifies people with the right experience and invites them to apply to your job so you'll get quotes unders candidate rating feature to filter his applicants so he could focus on the most relevant ones and that's how dylan found his new director of coffee in just Qaddafi that's Ziprecruiter dot com forward slash M A F I a ziprecruiter dot com forward slash mafia the few days with results like that it's no wonder four out of five employers who post on Ziprecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day Hiring can be a slow process cafe alturas Coo Dylan Moskowitz needed to hire a director of coffee for his organ you see why Ziprecruiter is effective for businesses of all sizes try Ziprecruiter for free at our web address ziprecruiter dot com forward slash and his criminal enterprise came to an extraordinary peak in nineteen seventy-two with his financial expertise he somehow became elected onto the board. You're nobody can take over your area you'll book making your loan sharking your prostitution unless permission from the commission and this would be if you if you're producer and you were doing right they wouldn't gadget placed demeo on the first wrung of the Mafia eight man and he actually had a ceremony and then after the ceremony had a party was a big deal that get made on a crime family nobody could kill you wchs borrowers were expected to pay back the loans plus interest called the big in a timely manner or there would be gaughman industry when the design it came up with a new line and he needed money to produce that new line for wasn't long before the bank foreclosed but by then it had netted him gadget hundreds of thousands of dollars to help him in of directors of a small local bank the Brooklyn Credit Union as in any credit corporation legitimate people come to to is that says deals Demeo also built around him his own specialist team of criminals the gang became known as the demeo crew demeo who to account for their money so what happened is Roy moved into it organized it but then took it wasn't the only industry that was being ruled by the criminal underworld this was a fairly common practice at least in New York and we'll guys found was heavily involved not that readily give them the money because they had no financial backing by themselves organized crime would come in Bush Shou loans originally Roy got involved on what is a Nino to help won the money to help put money out there and was his friend Chris Harvey Rosenberg to be his right hand man Chris was twenty four year old with a vicious temper he idolized Roy demeo and basically that's what they did and expanded that barring from the mob was often a last resort for people that couldn't borrow from policy for the total amount now it does become profitable to kill you don't have to break your legs and break you on if you don't pay before you get a physical warning and virtue when you get involved in that and you have any kind of a hard time paying the interest alone when it keeps doubling we're mostly Rosenberg's friends okay we knew it we knew Chris Havi we knew Joey Testa we knew Patty tests that we knew Henry Borelli awesome many times and you'll be killed and they get the money anyway with Demeo and the other directors slowly siphoning money away from the bank okay was he stealing from the banks savings but he convinced the other directors to do the same basically are many people at the need money and banks were not digging that hole deeper so what happens is you tough times and they only allow you so many times to miss pain that interest the operational gang that was to be feared the gang used to hang out at a bar at Flatlands Avenue in Brooklyn called the gym nine lounge the lounge was rebel the figures the interest on the money you pay a big first and if you say if you miss that big and they'll be doing doubles the demeo gangs expertise was mostly in selling stolen vehicles Freddie to nome was a fast driver and the streets of New York were already rampant car theft oh it's a tremendous epidemic of car crimes in New Yorker and there was a tremendous slew of warehouses those of Italian heritage was a father figure a mentor and there was and soon they became a full admirations demeo looks at him as a father image and as he moved up the line he be able to move them up on these further said well we're not only going to lend money to the Jimmy people I mean he he did dentists doctors lawyers firemen he said look into bed the VA advertisement have a showing he needed money and that off the new banks would go behind give him the money organized crime would and was desperate to be in the mom Kris Harvey was very what he was going to be a made man and this would never happen found with skeletons of causing because there were certain plots that nobody could take and that was the frame because it was number two knee Angie would just keep you in an of the mafia they have found ways of ensuring that money is many to make you take life insurance Lee simple they would have around twenty thieves out at night where visibility was low and would grab as many cars as they could they were so sneaky this became such a lucrative business they were doing better general motors the car-stealing ring was going extremely well and and it will give him that money of course you would pay an exuberant interest on money almost twenty five to twenty six percent thief and he supplying cause to body infant the places and he was supplying caused to US call it and so I decided to expand his reach into other industries one in particular caught his attention pornography of as you I'm sure including Paul Castellano frowned upon it but demeo decided it was too good an opportunity to pass up and his own boss Gadji turned a blind he also employed a number of local thugs including a man named Andre Cats entree cast was a a very very good for where man coming home where you're going for a drink the only exception to was the fact that it was owned by Roy demeo I didn't know Freddie was race car driver and was highly respected as a coffee can get away with any kind of a police chase but they were united their base of operations chimney a bar a neighborhood bar a neighborhood watering hole wasn't a disco very quiet earner and ditz did so with some discretion and deniability and I would think that would again first but things were about to pit and Roy was about to find himself in a very different business one of demand he didn't hesitate to take drastic steps in July nineteen seventy-three demeo set up a meeting with Rothenberg at a local restaurant under false pretenses but they didn't make it to dinner instead we know is one of the best moneymakers you know there is when we other and there were you know a lot of methods to distribute it but she was an expert has business associates Paul Rosenberg was arrested with Rosenberg under pressure demeo thought he might put the rest of the crew at risk so times even got the help of the local law enforcement policemen could run a search on a car if they got a license plate of a steel gray then and I'm sure had avenues of doing so in creating in the nineteen seventies pornography was illegal not only that but most of the family bosses you cut out the parts and you may triple the prophet on that was Andrea cats like I said he he was very good the operation was people and people are gonNA pay because we'll kill them and that way Nikki bonds could go down there if he's looking at the bigger whatever whether someone did you a big favor or you know a lot of money getting out of debt is hard as anyone who's dealt with the mob no speculating wouldn't be the probably the most significant reason by nineteen seventy-three Roy demeo was thirty two and was one of the Gambino family's top earner dot com up start as a revolutionary lending platform that knows your more than your credit score they offer smart Internet rates is for one simple reason Roy was bringing in too much money it would be speculation that that Roy wasn't trainwreck. Terrific your credit that's upstart dot com forward slash Mafia Andrei Katz one of the car thieves who would deliver the parts it's especially hard when your credit score is in great and you might have to go through some unsavory means to get that money but now there's up st traditional loan most people get their loans the day after it's approved over three hundred thousand people have used up start to pay off credit cards gang got into trouble with the police Andrea got pinched for narcotics and they were afraid like everything else was dot com forward slash mafia to find out how low your upstart rate is checking your rate only takes a few minutes and it won't affect the F. Whoever he could tie Chris Hobby Rosenberg into the car stolen car operation which time into Roy demeo whoa Porsche that color to be stolen and just replace the parts taking the dentist parts offering new parts on and polishing it while on hope you pay off high interest credit card debt without having to pay off the so don't go to Paul Castellano when you need to pay off those student loan or meet Financial Goals See why upstart is ranked number one in their category with over three hundred businesses on trust pilot hurry to upset commit sure instead him scrambling around to his people getting money he get the money from Roy demeo began to embezzle money from the bank upstart believes in you and makes it fast simple and easy to check your rate in just minutes and there's no waiting around like a chill cats by basically Andrei Katz was a ladies man and was basically Lord to a location in order to see a young woman the go-to upstart they look beyond the credit score they look at your education and job history and reward you the smarter interest rate and they were asking him to finger or identify the individuals for whom he was working waterfalls down so that Caputo Nino geigy the came down was to kill Andrei Katz Demeo and the crew has to planned was a perfectly viable case on as long as Andrei Katz can cooperate and testify so after having a meeting with Roy demeo took Rothenberg into the alley nearby it was Demeo as I kill and so when another conflict came up he would rat out to the police rather than take a chance of getting convicted of Connex possession on it and Josh I wanted to know where it was to get their friendly police officer to run it you told me to call was located would be able to out that night and steal it well rather than wafer push to send them the parts there are two ways auto that year be stalling or be really lazy the bill industry he streamlined organized and he killed with efficiency and what is to bury places if you gotTa Rush Robin on Kinda just brand new porsche. The woman was a female accomplice Rosenberg's she called cats asking for a date cats drove across town to our home to pick her up but she wasn't the one waiting for him the DEMEO crew was but as he pulled up he was gripped by them and put a noose and drake the heart of Queens when his blindfold was taken off he was alone in a slaughterhouse. Roy had once been a butcher's apprentice is to the mob detective winding and the others present realized that this was likely a mafia hit but they didn't know who was behind it could they have done homicides like this at the time the police were not terribly interested in investigating into Kansas murder no witnesses came forward no incriminating evidence was found detective winding says the reason was because crime scene at the butchery it was clear that this was no ordinary murderer before long detectives identified the victim and knew that he had come a little numb to this this way of killing a man and like I said he was is not that much interested that the other detectives place and I viewed this is a tremendous weakness Roy demeo and his crew had dealt with cats today very public way and got away with it and now the demeo crew developed a method for making people disappear dismember through the butcher shops bins when he came across a ben full of what appeared to be prime cuts of meat when he opened up she's would you wrap was I mean that's was the wrong kind of victim a criminal as my career grew in the police department what do you come to realize we are seeing but again we knew this involved organized crime and definitely aroused the attention of voice so the training was about to come in handy the next morning a homeless man was rifling dismembered neatly the tests and everything was disposed of and what the medical examiner into I meant was rarely used by the mafia but for the demeo crew it became their signature they knew a lot about dismembering wherever it was had an appetite for the gruesome unfortunately a homicide tend to you tend to Congratu happy go up and what you pay nearly place in the fat disposal my pant you probably it was a macabre if a civilian gets killed an AL crying the public find the murderer but when an organized crime figures killed there is not that much outcry this here we are joking around saying maybe we'll go for Chinese for after this and that was all day of dealing with the parliament was used for all sorts of criminal activity not the least the witch was homicide and this is the location where they cut the body squeeze and then the next thing you see is the headlines this is a body dismembered body found the back of pantry pride and to see the body parts it was a young girl and she come completely quite upset and almost fainted at the sight method of murder that the crew created quickly became known as the Jimmy method because most of their victims were killed at the hang out it also became in appeals in mass production Roy did that for murder for money joe coffee is a former homicide detective with the Nypd Uh Lord victims to the place and they would bring a man in some cases depending on the victim was and what the reasons killing was to start man had become immediately dirt so as a truck pulled and he would dump all the produce and also wrapped put your paper and he opened it up and like he thinks he's disco is legal but actually this is a man's die no he was running screaming off indisposed I had said earlier that word the mail became Henry Ford was to a building formerly known as the murder machine they would cut the body up dismember the body neatly wrapped the body and the parts were placed in it headlines dismembered body found they praised his head leg I think look flounder when I finished with him Eh the Fountain Avenue dumped by the rockaways was the perfect hiding place for rotting meat it was enormous and filled with everyone's garbage in the dumps the body was placed in was the last dumpster so when he was dumped it was covering nearly by virtually impossible for you to search out with dogs because dogs only sniffed protein and finance fact they were dumpsters that were scheduled for media pick up that night to be dumped at the fat nephew pound and the family of you dumped was had especially then according to the experts they don't think the body would last more than six months and that can I hate and basically we will batum they all sat down with Roy Demeo and they ordered a pizza and they were eating the pizza bloody hands despicable people what the quick and methodical then they cut the body up and put Paula Paz and a hefty bag at the garbage bag and they dump that body and parental antisocial was found that was other protests in the garbage truck and bulldozes covered everything and unique by placing these parties in the Fountain Avenue Dump it the area designated for meat byproducts and the reason why is it was designated meet by price because they knew one rat and I and frustration loyd beg to differ murder was lucrative killing now became aside business with the demeo crew after Andrea there was no need to do this this was just how would you say vicious evilness I mean mop heads normally on done that way why go cats and the disposal of this way decided to expand the business into killing ooh they own the dump in just months demeo had turned murder into a sadistic ritual now Paul Castellano son-in-law okay on that particular mutation after he got done cutting the body up and draining the blood out of it and why to bump door was a leg of lamb was actually Andrea Thi- what a tattoo on him and this caused the mattress killing enemies but now killing for the families so now if Roy can do some killings for the families they brought him into the bathroom and put him in the Tub cut his body your first of all they they hung them up from the shower on upside down and drain the blood out his button he was finally a made man and as a made man he could afford to take some liberties within the mafia rules and murder contracts and the person who carried out those contracts he taken any contract like I said he took a contract in for the West there were disposable now one case they bought a guy in and stabbed him right and a halt when a when a nice big as he walked in the door and stop this on immediately arken gang that ran the west side of Manhattan the westies would provide ten percent of all prophets to the Gambino's while the Gambino would provide Intel through Chris Rosenberg's connections soon they would discover that they should have listened to their capito in early nineteen seventy nine Roy welcome better the I just invite him to a party and that would be the last time you see him so that's what we did he Rosenberg went to Florida to buy cocaine a group of Cubans Chris Rosenberg I said he looks at Roy as a fought Chris rose expanded the murder the Mayo could now do bigger and bigger deals he made his biggest deal when he aligned with the westies an Irish Alano as they tended to attract lawn forcement but the DEMEO crew instead God deep into the world of cocaine most of the operations were demeo was placed officially in charge of the alliance as long as he didn't get involved in any drug rings drugs were frowned upon by Paul Kester do away with the human deal directly with the Colombian and we're going to purchase some cocaine we'll be happy I'm connected when we found out this he don't kill Colombians Colombians will go to war with anybody demeo and his Cohen Wildwood don't they fight did protein everywhere and it would be almost impossible to do but the thing up half the dump and eighty now behind the German lines Nepal by it rented rented by Joseph Leon Berg Assume Roy's name anyway he went pretty signed into hotel he calls himself Chris Demeo and originally they had losses were both outraged by Rosenberg's actions even more so Rosenberg had associated himself with demeo specifically he did at their contact on it was Cuban but to Cuban was dealing with a Colombian so Chris is infinite wisdom decided to all the garbage in Brooklyn and Queens twins that I'd dump so if you dump something you're not gonna find other so that's what it used it oh my God my family's dead didn't come up and kill my whole family demeo became paranoid that the Colombians might come to kill him his door he immediately thought it was a Colombian assassin and may chase why was so nervous about it but these which made them boss of the website so shout the West kicking money up the Roy Roy was kicking money the Nino the westies alliance earn demand the Gambino buses knew who had had to be the person responsible demands friend Chris Rosenberg was then that demeo made a terrible mistake the public murder of an innocent teenager demeo came home one day to find a strange car parked outside awesome joey and Anthony towns speed at I get a Colombian hit team going to kill me but it wasn't an assassin demeo could not make the body just disappear as usual he had to show the Colombians that he had killed Rosenberg on their behalf so he decides Chris was Dominic Gucci the door to door salesman trying to make money for college they chased his poor individual halfway -Cross while on Nice crime my name is Christie Mail him being the entrepreneur that he is so safety I'm not going to pay them I'm gonNA kill them and then disappear we had witnesses these ain't cops he's a professional killers he says they were in combat trach they knew just how to hold on electrolux salesman going around at houses and Mississippi comes up to his house the Selma vacuum cleaner thinks he's a Colombian hitman has to go Matra gotomeeting he shoots Chris they stay. Chris and Chris can't be dismembered Chris has to be left so they shot this kid who's pleading for his life Gadji was already angry about Rosenberg's murders which risked an all out war between the Columbians and the Gambino's but re Gucci's death pushed it too far the Colombians demanded scalp someone had to die at length when they could just put a bullet they did it just be vicious and that was the males the one because it was a cycle sepulcher and if you knew a person that can work on it a gunsmith he turned it into a regular Thompson and apparently that's what make front page headlines So let me says I'll get out one machine gun which at that time you could buy Thompson machine gun as Dan and demeo was temporarily unsettled but business was business and soon demeo in the crew returned to the swing of things enough to appease the Colombians for that sending up a hit team to retaliate for the murder of those three Colombians Rosenberg had been his right hand he kills them he was killing three people the deal guys brother-in-law and I think he brought his son away and they're all Colombians important Roy demeo was too but as Mafia bus rains go Kosta Lana wouldn't last forever and so nice in the next episode though the police were still perplexed about the hundreds of disappearances they were starting to get some clues as to what was happening they did they parked on Floyd Benfield Salmon is car with a nine millimeter between his likes and the machine gun in the car super it is produced by audio booms been Hasley Rachel Jacobs Casey Georgie and Karen Bevan and by Pasco Hughes for world media so you know I never would have met under any circumstances many of them both investigators who felt strongly that the individuals in the but with bribery rampant the mafia was able to buy themselves out of any crimes that could be pinned on them. I don't know that it's fair I think in many ways plus they had protection but if people work at Abu Scientist Haitian diploma they paid off sanitation almost a tiny so only send an army up here and he's GonNa kill you and they said what name did you use he said went by Kristie male voices his guns and the Malians member very very well respected and this power to so that's how Turnham into an informant would've bought the whole empire that this has been an audio boom and world meteorites co-production hosted by me flee Ooh had evaded responsibility for truly heinous acts and they were looking for some means mechanism perhaps wrong it all together follow Mafia on spotify or subscribe on Apple Podcasts Stitcher or wherever you find your favorite shows though demeo was still defying Paul Delano by both dealing drugs and the drug deal gone bad it was Rosenberg who had been ordered taken out not and yes it did it made front page headlines Body found man machine-gunned Don Floyd Bennett field were nine millimeters between his legs and the demeo crew was successful in overcoming the criminal justice system in the states that case law was worthy of every effort that the mayor let's say a soldier in one family has an argument with another soldier well he can't go out and kill them because they brought in the same family but if he's pissed off about him he'll go to Roy you could bring to bear to to frustrate the system when one person turned rat and then another demeo found himself in trouble when his bosses and what happened the next six months to a year was an extraordinary combination of motivated investigators some of whom

Roy demeo Rosenberg murder Chris New York prostitution producer Thompson Queens Abu Scientist Haitian Gadji Floyd Benfield Salmon Don Floyd Bennett Gambino Kosta Lana spotify bribery
The Irishman (2019) | The American Mafia (1975)

Cut To Black: A Sopranos Sitdown

1:29:55 hr | 5 months ago

The Irishman (2019) | The American Mafia (1975)

"Recall is that Frank. Hi Frank because it's Jimmy Hoffa meet you. Glad to meet you too. Even if it's over the phone I heard you paint houses. Yes yes right I do I do and I I also do carpentry. Welcome to cut to black a real history special. This is a crossover between two of our shows. What you know podcasts. On cut to black. We discussed the Sopranos on real history. We dig into the historical context of movies and TV. This episode bridges the gap between both podcasts. As we'll be using score says as the Irishman as a jumping off point to discuss the formation of the Mafia in the US. So whether you're hearing this on our cuts black feed or realistic. I believe there will be something interesting in it for you. I'M JACOB BURROUGHS and I've watched every episode of the Sopranos and I Michael China Nine and I'm lucky enough to have done the same. I Mar Bel. I have also seen every episode of the Sopranos Obviously we're not exactly talking about the Sopranos. But I think if we did a real history episode about the Sopranos. It will be very similar to a real history episode on the Irishman because in the Irishman. We're talking about you know how all this came together and if you haven't seen the Sopranos in the very first episode Our MAIN CHARACTER. Tony Talks about coming in at the end of something he feels like there was this great thing. And he's kind of at the tail end of it and that's a metaphor for America. It's a metaphor. Go vote the American dream all these things but more specifically the actual literal thing he's talking about is the Mafia. And how did it end up in this place? It is there how did end up in the place. That is in the Irishman Obviously we're using years meant as a jumping off point. I don't think it's necessary to have watched it. But I also think anyone who's watched every episode of the Sopranos. That's probably seen the Irishman so I wouldn't worry too much about it Can you tell us a bit more about this film? The Irishman Michael. Yeah of course so first of all if you haven't seen it watch it although you will like a lot of these films need a full afternoon. It's two hundred nine minutes schedule an intermission for you're saying no do. I mean I every person. I asked about the Irishman before I watched. It said it's Long. They didn't have any other feedback on it. They just said it was long and so I just watched it two different nights and I loved it. I didn't think it was too long. So yeah let's say an came out in November two thousand nineteen so just gone. It's proven very very successful on Netflix alike. You said many people actually watch it as a mini series positive after every forty minutes or something like that. Yeah it's directed by Martin Scorsese And it's written by Steven Zaillian. Who has been pronounced that right but anyway you're you're used to be a lot of that. And this upsets me. But he would have written. He would have written for Schindler's List and the would a written for gangs in New York. So he has worked with. Scorsese moneyball as well Written with our sorkin American gangster and the English version of the girl with the Dragon Tattoo. Exactly and it's based on a phrase. You're going to hear a lot. It's based on a book call. I heard you paint houses at by Charles. Brand came out in about two thousand four. And it's based on. It's a general history of say nineteen fifty from. Sharon's life rank share. And who were going to be discussing for the majority of this podcast And it's based around interviews stat. Frank Sharon did in his old age at a nursing home. Yeah which leads us into. If you want a one sentence summary of this film I would describe it as this is something we always do. I would describe it as an aging hitman looks back at how he was entangled with the Mafia and became the link between the mob and a prolific union leader. Eventually having to make deadly choice between the two honest beautiful. That's beautiful. Thank you now. You don't need to watch. Three hours of film is basically it? I mean you should be right in the tag lines for a studio right. Thank you well. One day. One day for the podcasting businesses. Just earn too much money. I have no reason to to make a career. Change aren't as a very healthy ninety six percent on The aggregate website rotten tomatoes. So it's overwhelmingly positive reviews. And if you haven't seen the film watch it and the book itself is also brilliant like it's just it the amount of colorful and and funny little scenes as well as horrific brutality yet. Great me so. The story obviously follows frank to a large degree. But we're GONNA sort of. Is We often do a step back further and look at? How did this situation arise? Where before Frank entered the scene? So what is the history of while the mall? Is that the right word mark while you to be honest probably there. There are several different ways of his thing of ours. This thing of ours Costra and there's different ways to refer to the look the the the term the mall is more of a Kind of a catch. All term doesn't distinguish ethnic groups often will refer to it as the Mafia we talk about the Sopranos earlier so we would say the Sopranos a Mafia family. They're not actually technically mafia. Well I mean anyone who's watched recently watched the last season of the Sopranos can tell you that they're nothing but a glorified crew really nothing. Exactly right exactly no proper. Don Wears shorts. Are He fucking? Bobby's number two Yeah Yeah but the In order to be Mafia you tactically should be Sicilian the soprano crew or our camera. They're they're neopolitan. So that's that's that's a different group than from Naples but the the idea that the mall the name the mob just Kinda refers to any organized crime gang New York is kind of the starting point for a lot of this stuff in the US. some of that is just down to its nature as a kind of a hope of immigration as always being booed especially in the nineteenth century. there was a big scale immigration to New York from Arlon than from Europe Eastern Europe. an Italy yet Who agents poor regions? Yeah yeah so southern Italy particularly an insult in Italy now where where the organized crime still persists to a large degree. There's kind of three principal. Groups one of them is a Mafia. Mr Camara does not one which look I am going to. Murder Pronunciation is but I've heard it referred as Nang Greta which is in Calabria. They're actually regarded as the most powerful crime group in Italy right now. Anyway I saw point The immigrants that came into New York they kind of fit into a pre existing gang structure that existed reference. Scorsese's movie earlier gangs of New York. The the idea of gangs fighting over territories on over like literally having street bottles with each other that was persistent nineteenth century in Manhattan new ways of immigration fit into that You had areas of the city. Which are you know? Quite hip and popular and fashionable now like the lower east side with lower. East side was hop- ed of Italian Irish and Jewish immigrants to a street gangs everywhere as west side story. Yes indeed was Scorsese and Deniro. Themselves were actually are actually from one of these neighborhoods. Tribeca in in in New York. Well it didn't run in the same kind of gangs they. They were aware of each other in their childhood. Believe it or not and but anyway that that's that's all the site ad they did. The American mafia or mob is a is a pretty interesting story. Some of it is brought a bath accidentally buddy. Us government's actions. Tried to tackle societal problems. Believe or not right. Okay What is I mean? What do you mean so early on? there is a an extortion rackets that exists in Italy which is referred to as the black hand and dot made its way over to New York with the Italian immigrants. What the block on basically is. It's a it's a style of extortion. That was popular in the Kingdom of Naples. So that's sort of Italy and Sicily and basically what it was you would kidnap a family member From a well over wealthy family then send a note to the head of the family would a threatening ladder that how do the blackened symbol on it and they will basically be things like you know? Leave the money here. Come alone and all of this stuff and if you don't if you don't leave a boy this time they'd send you finger if you don't leave a boy this time they'll send you Hans done so forth and they'll send you an arm and you know So this kind of thing became quite popular among the Italian street gangs. So that's the black hand also to be confused with the black spots and treasure island and more importantly muppet treasure island will similarly lead to death out. Go on I mean. I'm sure there's some crossover there so look. There's an entirely Prevalent Gang Culture that exists in New York in the nineteenth century. As you see in the movie Guys in New York with the Blackhawks talion mob. Starting to filter into the there is he. Ethnic clashes done as well. Certain ethnic groups are maybe more inclined to ally or intermarry with each other. You'll find Catholic. Groups are kind of easy to get along with each other so Irish Mary Italians and Polish and unsal and things like that although some of the debate happen with the Irish and not when they arrived in New York they could speak English so they often became. City officials are often became police and firefighters. But that'll be literally the only reason just they can speak English Anyway into this kind of scene came a an Italian called Palo Vodka rally. Who's more well known as Paul Kelly? The Paul Kelly was a prizefighter but unlike a lot of prize fighters he was clever. What is money investment? And brothels? So what he started doing. Basically in Lower Manhattan was opening up. These these brothels where various three Tollefson pogues and deals and extortion. Things would go on and legal gambling will go on in his brothels all of which led him essentially forming a gang which is known as the five point skying Saddam than eighteen seventy six on Iran for forty years fifty years maybe when till nineteen twenty around then that was kind of a loose collection of various immigrant groups that it was Irish and not was Italians and not doing Jews to some polls. Would we say that up to this point there obviously while there's a fair bit of crime and all a wouldn't necessarily be as well organized? Yes yeah thought is definitely fair to say. There isn't the same level of structure that you would have in. Let's say the Cecilia Mafia that existed in Europe? So that has a very very organized structural systems that you'll know from the soprano so you'll have guys referred to as the boss or I think like as the Sopranos Opens Up. Tony is more of a is what might refer to as an underboss. He's not gonNA switch but he's in charge and you mentioned like extortion racket here and would Is a famous pointing? It's in goodfellas movie where he's like we're we we're police for people who can't go to the police were they. Also a major protection racket as well for one hundred percents a Mafia itself in Sicily. That's actually had was formed. It was you would hire these protection these guards to guard over your your your Orange Grove. That's literally with the Mafia and they were referred to as the man of honor to the the math. That's kind of a Mafia means and how this very Strict system of swearing oaths which is referred to Omerta which is something that they just still goes on now. This idea of being a made mom that comes from that once you become made you see it actually in the Sopranos right when you're just not allowed to speak in miss to anyone else's criminality you're not allowed a myth till this thing of ours the cost Nostra and none of that had reached New York to any great extent. Artha point when the five gangs five Five points gang was operating but Kelly was an early recruiter of figures who later became very important in the American mafia such as Johnny Orio. Al Capone Salvatore. Luciano was Italian heritage. Probably a stupid to say but given the makes of different mobs Inda in New York. I'm was Italian. Heritage essential basically to be involved with it very to Marie Volkmann. It is very very good question early on no so the American born Italians maybe are probably a little more integrated. They're more inclined to have toys and work with Irish mob and Jewish mob. The the the later wave of immigration that comes in following the rise of fascism and the hard right in Italy forces a lot of Actual Mafia in Kamara non grata members out of Italy uses a massive crackdown on organized crime A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE FLEE TO AMERICA. Because isn't it doesn't establish Italian community they're like in in literally in the areas around there. So you have Cecilia. Who ARRIVE INTO NEW YORK. They start to put a structure on the on the gangs. They have us or a certain level of in built respect because they're from the homeland you know they have this kind of this kind of this kind of walked it in and these are not streaked toffs. These are these are not guys who who dress. They've come off the street. These guys wear suits you know that. They're well-dressed they've got money they don't they? Don't mess around but what they do. Is they recruit these guys from Paul? Kelly's guy so The likes of Lucky Luciano. He was working with a very famous. Jewish mobster glazed fix bats. He was called Rothstein Arnold Rothstein the brain called on he learned as Luciano says himself like he taught him how to dress property but he will blame the suit and stay somewhere flat cops. That's what that's what children were at home. Things that you wearing my suit. You don't want people to immediately know what you're about you want you to think that Donald is this guy who serious he's got money like you know You reference earlier. No boss would wear shorts. You know that's not so that's a reference that you know the the the these guys are shrink eater or admit any kind of amid any kind of weakness. That's that's the thing with soprano as we all know. Emotions is weakness. Yes yeah car not others. Being being Irish we bottle is open to we just collapse into a heap of misery. I mean maybe it should be benched school. The Irishman who got to Irishman. Right here What do we think of I mean we're getting more into frank later but How do you think this relates to the portrayal of Irish people in media? Things you can see some of the Irish stoicism minute right that. Kinda ties into the murder thing. Where the where the the the mob don't talk about the mob dot suits Irish hitman. You'll actually see mafia families throughout history higher Irish hitman because if there's one guy he's not gonna say anything it's just the Irish Guy I think is when the Irish moved to America and eventually they founded probably easier in terms of language data integrate into American culture Like mark said that they would have went into police forces and all this type of thing what they're big distinguishing feature was always Catholicism. And when we go into francs obviously that stayed at the Irish from largely from the southern counties of Ireland. You know there would have been scotch-irish to Who would have largely emigrated to the South but essentially this CA- Catholicism is what continued to distinguish them. It was probably one of the reasons. They were discriminated against. And it's also when we look at Frank's life you'll see influenced that culture of Catholicism and religion in general and the moral code and all that that had a major influence on him as it did on generations by Irish people. Yeah I think that's I think that's definitely fair. I even had an experience. Myself were A friend of mine is an old Italian American While it's while he is in his eighties but he had he on once about maybe ten years ago. He introduced me to gang of his friends. Who were all from the Laurie? Side of Manhattan. That even both low at the time and it was like walking onto the set of the Sopranos. You know and I thought not not really like just Italian. America's he's an old guy but they were they did have Paulie and Vito on things about. I'm when I came in. They said Oh. Is this the kid? This is the MIC kid. So this is this is. This is the Irish. Get on one of those. Oh don't arrest me so I have to say I'm not that kind of Irish which they really liked so it was free drinks for me so I do. You are still alive so well. One of them was a barber. I don't think he was gonNA shoot me like well. He's they've got those knives. I don't WanNa say you know you could get something dumb the knife and mark so obviously that was kind of foundation of these Groups in mainly New York immigrant communities. But what was the petrol I suppose to the flame that really turn them into a powerful? Kinda group Yes. So so so what I what I kind of reference earlier was like the the government accidentally bringing a lot of this on themselves. Yeah so we have a wave of Sicilian immigration generally but we have a waiver more senior cicilline immigration the comments. You get Guys who WanNa know how to organize things start arriving into America into the major industrial cities in America Tunein Senate delegation. Now get into a minute at Joel Mazari and saw Marzano there. Two guys who who arrive in from Sisley and they really start to put a structure on how the racketeering works. What the American government does around this time is introducing the vaults deduct which is an amendment to the constitution which outlaws alcohol. All right I mean this is this is like one of the stupidest things go ahead adorn in the twentieth century. Really really like look. It's easy to say in hindsight but I mean you combine the alcohol but that doesn't get rid of the taste for alcohol doesn't get rid of the demand for alcohol addiction talk. Yeah Yeah exactly. So what happens? Who Steps in the mob? Steps in so bootlegging this becomes a major major. Yeah issue and As as we discussed many times I a lot of people just know History through television and movies. This is where we get into boardwalk empire type territory. Yeah exactly on. It's also it's also important to point out dot com you know boardwalk empire depicting I think the call him nookie Thomson in the show but the real life person was looking Johnson but he was a he was a political figure. Who's I think? He was the treasurer. Maybe over logic city something that you think would be for any minor but he was extraordinarily wealthy and nobody thought to question the Myers welcomes coming from bootlegging. Billing is what is what like you said. It's the patron to the flame. So these are street gangs that are starting to become organized with structures and then suddenly the amount of money that's potentially being able to people just skyrockets dot leads to everything that you can think of. There's gang wars left right and center it. There's huge amounts of money is money being made. There's people hiding money in this place already. Money in place. People are making connections into order American cities to construction of major roadworks around this time as well that helps the distribution on this cities where you start to see organized. Crime really take off. It's not surprising what's happening there. Ones that are near borders are near water or near you know there. Are there cross point so at Buffalo New York right on the Niagara River right across the river from Canada. He wants whiskey. That's where you got a whole canal structure there all you need to do is make sure you've got the the guys who work on the Canal bought off. That's usually the Irish. You buy 'em off whiskey probably on some money and then you drive that down through mob territory you get it into New York you get instant New Jersey you get into Philadelphia which would have been coming in true all for sure Yuban Florida. Of course of course starts arriving at the Miami. Then you start getting Members of various crime organizations in New York sending people to different parts of America to establish themselves This is a distribution network all for sale of illegal alcohol on it. Massively massively takes off will happens with some of the guys mentioned earlier. There's a a very important figure kind of regarded as he might be the most famous Italian mobster in American history which is called Salvator Duquesne's whose who because of some misspellings in the newspaper is known as at Charlie Luciano or look channel. He is sicilian-born a New York mobster and He's involved in Racketeering protection rackets all stuff and and as I said earlier he gets involved. Arnold Rothstein withdrew him meets. Joel Mazari. Who's one of the the older Sicilian guys who started to organize things. They call him. The boss Joe boss Mazari so Mazari is trying to organize some street gangs. He brings Luciano in as one as one of his one of his guys. One of his lieutenants Hitman essentially. And eventually what happens is Joel Mazari? And Sal Marzano have a falling out over territory and this leads to a massive Gang War New York which referred to as the Castelo Merisi war. This ends when Luciano betrays Joel Mazari. So right movie. It's all it will be. It will be a great movie. Yeah is there not one? They sound like there should be one. A lot of. It is actually portrayed in the INBOX. Emperor Xian is a key figure in the AM so Mazari starts. It's not all very well from US Marines and was getting on his some of his hits or or more successful Luchino seizes. Knock on well. So he basically goes the marlins on on he says listen. I'll walk him. Then if you agree to just give me his crew author after this is all set and we'll all recognize the boss so Ronaldo's yeah okay. Don't do it so leon some of his pilots Including some surnames. Which if you're familiar with the mob the you'll know Genevisi Castillo. They go on to a to a restaurant meet. Mazari unlike the hidden in the Godfather. That's basically what they do. Go into the toilet. Take going out shoot. Glenn had run off. It all goes horrendously wrong but what ends up happening. Is The guys now recognize that? Marin Zano is the guy he's God yes yes. So what happens? Is They have a meeting. So Mariana calls a meeting of all the prominent gang leaders What The remind me what year were in. So we're in the late twenties right now right twenty twenty years so they call a A meeting where they decided. On an actual structural organization to have the gangs will operate On Marzano refers to himself as the Capo. The Tutti copies. So he's the captain of captains right. He's the the the godfather such as the king of kings. The first American say Prince Act. If we're going back to yes we call it in which they would probably like you doing because you know the whole thing. I'm so he organized the mob into five families which are Marzano Prophecy Mangano leukaemia ungodly Hano families. The Modern Day five families of New York dots. These families I would just like to say this is all alleged. No just GONNA end just in case. Someone's going to threaten us or whatever but the alleged versions of these narrow Bernado Colombo Gambino Genovese in the Casey so their their family names that you'll hear maybe in the news. These guys like I was saying earlier. Who Turn to Condo FEENEY's funeral you know after after the start Frano's died but these are kind of they follow the old Cecilia ways so the whole concept of Omerta which is the which is the honor system that they have to swear into never never mentioned the existence of Costra an honest off that all comes out of the concept of being a made man not all comes out of this and It it becomes formalized at this point now the other cities also have representation here but these guys are recognized as the top five was going to ask so Manzano when this split into five families happened. Was that just New York. Or that's that's New York New York families. Yeah and that's because that's where the bulk of the titans are at us where most of the money is on the define exist in the other cities Philadelphia Chicago and on Buffalo Principally. They are kind of outgrowth of these new families of thumb accessible as you were loosely related in some in some in somewhere or order I mentioned a guy earlier. Who WORKED FOR PAUL? Kelly called Johnny. To`real he was invited to Chicago by a guy who referred to as his uncle big. Jim Colosimo he wasn't actually as open with us. What they call him but he brought his kind of his protege whittam which was Al Capone. So these are Brooklyn gangsters. He went to Chicago and said well. You know there. Isn't that much organization here. We could take off them up here. They call him. Oh Johnny Torio takes over. He eventually retires after getting caught a he gets he gets a lot of trouble. And you were talking doll you. But he retires back to Sicily an alcohol and takes over and we all know what happens. There we've seen the untouchables right word on this because essentially these gangs existed and obviously there was like cases such as Al Capone which were high profile. All over the news. All that would destroy nature of Tara trees and Fischel Division like a shadow government in a way that wasn't generally known into public. It was denies this is completely hidden. Nobody knows with us. I believe even denied by the head of the FBI. Hoover said there was no such organized. Crime since his rookie Myers that doesn't really exist. Exactly yeah the the funny thing about this through every every shred of proof you can hope to want exists on this one. One of five families Matt do is records. Kept like the the you know there was. There's hotel receipts to show that these guys are all in the same place at Saint I am. I didn't these things definitely definitely took place. Bought Nabi spoke about. Yeah when did these things come to light these records all Morton much? I mean really. The the delayed is blown off the mob in the eighties when the now much-maligned Rudy Giuliani. Who was the district attorney of New York? He took a personal vendetta against organized crime. Some of it was kind of an ethnic an ethnic issue because being in the Talian himself he felt thought the the the mob was like a permanent stain on Italian. American people would only ever associates organized crime but italian-americans which wasn't fair. Because it was a you know I mean there's a lot of Irish mobs and Jewish mobs mobs of every ethnicity and also. I mean it's not like it's the only contribution to American Society. Thousands made you know but he took a major major issue with Tony's grandfather built a church. Well there you go you know But Yeah No. That's something just in general a topic. That's so you know prevalent here. He liked donate to the church tour. Right wasn't in terms of Just in terms of blown the laid off it I know there was a lot of indictments and all that in the eighties and a lot of them were. We were mentioning that earlier. Mark there was a a meeting in nineteen fifty seven and it was a major meeting of basically every major crime boss Italian mafia boss in America. Yeah and it was. The APPALACHIA was in Appalachia. So that was that was significant. Why well so we have the fly families? Let let me let me built. There is the defy family's bought One of the reasons why you Jonah turned on. Mazari is because he felt he was very fashion than he will. He wasn't open to getting involved in the drug trade salona viewed as limiting much money. We can make what are you doing? This is ridiculous. Well Marin Zano seems to be maybe a little bit more kind of loose. He was still a bit old fashioned done in his day. The MOV didn't get involved in drugs as non we do were protection. We're prostitution were bootlegging. Yeah so good hard on us all on us. Crime you know So Basically Leon Decides. I'm actually GONNA Walk Marzano so does it. There's an incident that's called referred to as the night of the Sicilian vespers. Renew Triano basically gets a lot of his Jewish friends He knows from the lower east side. Who wouldn't be well known to Mafia leaders on five hundred acres on? He basically takes all the old Sicilian guys Husna whack. And while he does is he calls families together again this time. They referred to them as the commission and he abolished the title of the Capo. Di Tutti copies onto the. There's any one person over anyone else. This is a board of directors. So yeah it's already. I was GONNA say sounding more formal or like. Yeah like we're corporation on the difference with the Commission is a direct sometimes referred to as the Board. Believe it or not my. That's what they actually call them on. These are the heads of the families but they also bring in powerful families from everywhere else so the board meet and that's that's Luchino Faci- and Mangano Dot Yano but they also bring in Bring in the leader of the Buffalo. All which is a guy called stuff on on my Gavino or or it's alleged to be cold and I am not saying that they're still in power now but the definitely are So they bring those guys in on the also the heads of the Chicago crime create which is comb atop point Also along with. This group is Luciano's advisors books Siegel Meyer Lansky her to hear or to Jewish Officers now they can't officially members of the five hundred because they're not Italian yet but Franson purposes. They are so what ends up happening. Luciano houses career. There's a whole issue with him Being arrested on indictment on racketeering charges bootlegging all sorts of stuff. He eventually gets actually deported. Out of America needs to part back to Sicily. While he's gone one of his friends Costello takes over his crew So Costello's is Ronin delete Luciano crime family at this point until he gets whacked so he gets Vito Genovese. Genovese is the guy. We're talking about in the fifties so in order to establish his power. He calls a meeting of the commission. Now you can only call a meeting of the commission if you're recognized as don like you're one of the leaders of the families there's can only be five at any time or what's the tradition. There's the fly families but really anywhere between five and ten representatives off this So he calls this meeting on. He says to One of the other mob leaders later in Buffalo Magadino. He says I want you to to sort out to sort out the particular service you decide where it's going to be so magazine also one of his guys. Which is Russell Bufalino white out? I know this name who it is. So this is Joe. Pesci has his car which also I mean we have to just lightly touch on what star studded cast in the crazy particularly like start at patchy played him. Because you know what you Associate Pasha with these like loud over the top characters but he plays both. Lino has very stayed very calm very kind of calculating and just calm and quiet and he portrays a lot of the cartridges. True is always it's reader you on But pollino is an interesting character. He's also is a Sicilian born American immigrants. His family arrived intake. Buffalo New York and ninety six and he growing up was a bit rough and got involved in bootlegging and kind of came in under the wing of the Magadino crime family. He later then moved to Pennsylvania to to Philadelphia and when Genovese calls the commission Magadino styles. Bufalino I want you to set up the particulars thus the Appalachian meeting. You're speaking about. So they all meet metal in this space in Appalachian this town and I believe they were swooped in on fifty eight hundred escape at what basically all of a sudden it was out in the open at this organized structure Ruining Organized Crime Organization Was Essentially acting or hiding in plain sight. Did you hear as we mentioned but the FBI and Hoover saying you did not exist in the rubbish rubbish lou? They knew Dodwell Luchino had even been allowed to come back to America during World War. Two on the basis that he will use his mob connections to influence the dockworkers in New York to hand over naval intelligence to the American government. Die Welt. He's always wondering. What do you know they always knew but so this is still a shift though when when everyone's arrested at the Appalachian meeting I suppose wait so. Russ who obviously is very central in In the Irishman he doesn't like who does anyone get into trouble based on the fact that everyone was kinda busted like does this lead to actually part of the mafia getting shut down or so. We'll probably be exploring a little bit later on but it will lead to basically Bobby Kennedy deciding to t t designed to basically go hell for letter after Organiz crises. Golf War he's got to know Jimmy Hoffa but we can go into any moment. I suppose In terms of both Lino. It's good that we're getting to this point because essentially there's three main people in this film that you need to be aware of one is rose bowl. Felino one is Frank Sharon and then the odor one is James Hoffa. And it's the relationship between those tree men daddy so fascinating in this film and decisions that they have to make so In terms of Bull Felino. I suppose we can we can. It's probably not. We've established I SUPPOSE. Weird mob is and how it came to be where we're into the fifties it has been. I suppose it's incredibly powerful And it's just been revealed in all its in in all its light. It's one of those things where it's kind of. It's kind of a An unspoken known secret. Like it's an open secret is another phrase. It's but now it's just like you know like Buffalo. You know when when when he went when those arrests com he's driving right in the car is genevieve. Let the the guy who's the head of the V. From his in the car with them on the Internet you're on earth. What are you doing here? Whatever AND PORTFOLIO COMPANIES. Visit my my my my friendly you know. He's in the car. Would like some of the most wanted criminal masterminds in the history of the United States. Just driving down the road and I think that's a good point because what's important about that meeting in mid fifties is that up until then they weren't harassed by deplete they might not have had to pay off local police. Yeah they wouldn't have had the FBI after them No. It wouldn't have had the government necessarily after them is after that they to watch. What the Hell Yeah? They couldn't even like they'd have to be careful. If several of the MED in one restaurant you know they were constantly fearing boat being bogue D- And an rats and all that so it essentially their their their years of comfort came to an end yanked in the nineteen hundred nineteen fifty five everything before then Might reasonably be titled the Golden Age. Where you know so this this is a this is exactly so you know new reference to start at Tony Soprano here. He's coming in at the end of the goal. Narrow this is very much is so junior. Soprano Johnny Boy Soprano. You might even say came in kind of towards the end as well. They were born and rare in the era of like the the five families being seriously seriously powerful and their New Jersey quote unquote glorified crew Where you know new New Jersey Geysers who would have kind of Fed off the scrap style? Return Defy families. Yeah and I wouldn't know about as much about as you mark for example I mean I haven't read into it but it feels logical. Say you know. That's the golden era up until nineteen fifty seven and then maybe a silver era following that where we have. You know. There's still stuff going on there guys. Yeah yeah an older leaders or whatever if you're you're worried about being bugged but it's Kinda like these annoying police like they're always buzzing around. We have to do something about them and then tied shift even further obviously eighties and nineties as Tony comes into power. And he's like well fuck. Everything's completely fucked. Used to be people were like. This showed get an office job. Yeah Yeah Yeah in Sanitation. Yeah so Russ did he get into trouble after during this. Sir Was. He was like what? It's probably a good time to actually jump into the order. Part of this triumvirate I suppose. Which is Frank Sharon? Yeah because it was around this time when Ross and demob were exposed essentially at this Appalachian meeting at Rosewood of got to know frank so I suppose if we want we can talk a little bit about Frank. Sharon's life and why it's so important yet. We might not know this but a I mean in D- in the film they meet because Franks car's broken down yet this year in the book. I've read the book write this. What is your man wanting? We have again to discussion by Frank. Is that a lot of although we can take his word on a lot of things and he's extremely detailed and a lot of time he'd have no reason to make up an ally the ting is that to a large degree. We can't prove a lot of to stop. He said and particularly at the end of his life. So we just WanNa be clear that this is based a lot of this is based on his own interlaced soul alleged were not saying this is true alleged and he yet and he didn't try to show sugar coat like He. He admitted Wendy murder people discounted boat. We do have to be you know. We don't know what his motives are. We don't know what the circumstances are exactly so. This is the true to carpenter frank. Sheeran essentially all. I'm but yes he did. Apparently meet him by chance Where his truck broke down. And Essentially Russell. Bufalino came up. And fict- helped him fix his truck and that was to start then of their relationship. I suppose we can go back to frank's own life if you like. You know he's he's fascinating Wolf Leno's in Philadelphia as the mob boss. They're working under the auspices of the Commission. So French earns a Philadelphia native or yet so Frank is born to an Irish fodder and Swedish motor. It's actually let me actually. This is Soon as star looking into this I hear. Oh the Irishman all. He's got Irish heritage. I moved mothers working in Swedish and he got sites from his motorcycles right. He was as mental for charity and all sorts of roads for every emotional detachment to kill. Scores of people wouldn't feeling thing so that's probably a good mix will say. He got his mild alcohol addiction and depression for his Irish side. So you know. Well we're not. We're not going that well here at all. We're not coming up. We can say all right you know but I read. Yeah no I get it like the Swedish woman does not sound. It's like having Vikings soon as you said all right. Well I don't know I just can't imagine like a like he needs to be handle. Send in the sweet. Sounds like you're in effect similarly. I can do this. Oh we are used to be Donaldson in this weed. You're you're building. Some furniture chatting barely existed at this point it did exist but it was not as international. Certainly no Volvo. Well yes I was rather annoyed. By this. To be honest he could have been the Swede. Missed opportunity from Scorsese. And I suppose from. Russ who as I heard it introduced as the Irishman Much. Like you're describing that you get whatever this is the MIC kid. Yeah so really. I mean we're we're we're your free hip lame. Pollino here but I'm in nicknames or pretty prevalent in in Organized crime once cheech because but then they changed at Basic Francesco. Let's short fur jacket interesting. Let's get into Franken. So what was his Life like yes born in Philadelphia. Nine thousand nine hundred twenty big thing that hold sway over his early life is poverty. So essentially the son of a toll F- Irish a steelworker put a man who had many many jobs as fodder An Swedish motor detailing. That is the overarching thing here is that it was the Great Depression so it was difficult to make a living no matter what you're doing He essentially would have grown up in Philadelphia. Would it be next? Exposed to kind of a harsh version of Catholicism phrase. Motor was extremely religious. He asked he was asked why we describe motor. He said religious. That's the way he described it. A Catholic sweet. Yeah Yeah he's fighter a few and far between yeah and he's fat as well it started had been a studied to be a priest for five years dropped. I wish and his two aunts so Franks two aunts would were knowns so you're talking about yeah yeah he's in Now big thing is about is like there's tons of anecdotes about how. He became a tough streak. It even learned Italian because he was in Italian. Neighborhoods one of the reasons Mafia. The Italian mafia respected him so much because he could actually communicate in their language and they saw that as a mark of respect towards them but in the film depicted as I mean. His backstory is basically like one scene where he talks to Ross and describes how you know he learned in in the war he learned Italian. Add just about how he even younger than us. Yeah it was when he was in these neighborhoods that I think one of the most interesting takes us to Kinda give you to give you an idea why he while he was such a tough. Kate was essentially. His father had a bit of a drinking problem. He was always Kinda half in and our work they were always running away from the from the landlords so they'd they'd get an apartment it stay a couple of monster rent would go late and thrown away but BC's fighter used to when frank was ten so you're talking nineteen thirty here. Missile Depression. His father used to bet for a quarter beer in all the local pubs that his ten year old son could kick the shit out of order. Men Odor drinkers. Fifteen fourteen. Fifteen year old. Sony's and then he used to bring indicate Hebron frank so our our hero if she want to call them her Whatever whatever you WanNa look used to bring him into pulp and he'd have to fight your kid dare and then into pulp and if he won't Odyssey's fodder would have enough money to keep drinking and if he lost fatter would kick shit in. Oh so he had a really really toefl. Brennan He I suppose he leaves he was also a prizefighter. Then much like Paul Kelly. I SUPPOSE. Yeah but this is why he actually play into Irish area BARE KNUCKLE. Boxing and fighting fighting for beer money but while he he actually said in he's one of his quotes into book learned. He learned how to fight by getting his ass kicked once in a while. It's basically every so often lose. And then he learned tricks here and there do take. He got expelled so he was only in the ninth grade And he told the principal basically called him a fat folk and he smacked him so that was him gone. I would school and he kinda went off doing a few different random jobs. This is before World War Two now. So you're talking Him In mid Thirties late thirties. And essentially he joined a carnival so the carnival was very experienced farm because he was only about sixteen or seventeen. This is the I run away. Join the circus. And he did. The regent traveling carnival and he what he said himself where with. That's where he got a college education how to please a woman. I love it. The reason for that is to is to go go dancers into circus who took a light tomb. Once called literally shift and he'll join was called. Neptune of denial. I this is all based on his remember. That's what I mean like. And he was telling these things in his eighty so quarterback but who knows they're making it up or like. I just liked that. He remembers the name of the go-to go down. So yeah well you remember them because he had several tree sims with them and over the course of so Merck. They taught him as he said himself gave him a college education. How to please probably just the Irish Sarah type of storytelling being a bit of a Shanansky about Mara and I suppose. Then the next big thing to happen to frank and what really turned them into? I suppose cold blooded killer and a lot of ways but will see. He's he's a complicated character was outbreak of world. War Two So dots where I suppose. Amman is aw a lot of action. Going to be is so easy to put. This is dead from what I've been reading. Is that the average amount of combat days that someone had in World War. Two was eighty So that's days inaction direct line of fire. Now Frank had four hundred and eleven over four years now. He was fit for fifty days. He went awol he as he said himself. He was chasing German Italian women and going Drinkin- board. He said he never abandoned his post when his men needed so. I just want to say that the most important is he joined a group that was basically called the thunderbirds division. And what's important with them as they were the forty Fifth Infantry Division okay and the generally American general at the time who was sending these young men to war he actually was giving them quite a few speeches and wanted him what he said he wanted the Germans to refer to hit two Francs Division as killing division. You wanted them to fear them and do whatever way patent actually quoted was the only good German was dead one and say that sounds like Lauria said and he essentially encouraged him to I suppose correct war crimes is what you'd call it. So what what what? What heaters are we talking about? Here is the invasion of Italy or are we talking about Normandy whereas fighting exactly so he would have started in Italy. He went true Sicily He actually went real Russell Bill. Bef- leans hometown which too had a great shout. Then they would have he would have been involved in a CJ Monte Montecasino Liberation Rolm He was in southern France and he was into Germany to basically. He's seen it all and he never got shot K which is amazing in four hundred and how many and Washington. That's that's that's going to the thing that really stuck me. Though was that he he said Like he what what stayed. Whittam was how every day a norm came to kill so it although it was never said when they capture a Coppola Germans on this sexy shown into film here. We've never said go and kill them. What we said is at take them back there behind air and hurry up so essentially it was said would go out say and they kill off prisoners employed. Which is all these are all war. Crimes of 'em now when he like he did witness terrible things watch shaped his psyche. Dan and turn them into such a cold blooded killer later was because he even mentions. They liberated the camp of COW CONCENTRATION CAMP. He mentions how the images are printed on his mind forever and that that he was haunted. By Dose Tings afterwards base. He never slept more trim for hours. Do we think now. I don't want to say your psychiatrist or anything like are. Are we talking about a guy here? Who just has the most profound? Ptsd imaginable well. We'll yes only in many ways and he he like wanting he said was that killing was like this is a direct quote from the book. You said you did them. So the murders like you might scratch your head if it is so it was that every day forum part of me thinks he really would Have for some sessions with Melfi Other parts of me saying them worse. Yes I mean. He probably couldn't say any of this stuff. Even Tony you murder someone on occasion. You know fortnight's whatever this This is different. Tony Soprano when he murdered. Somebody usually like beasts into debt with a frying Patterson her tracks them over a over a fringe. This guy is mown down scores of Italian. Yeah and he. He didn't detain Whitman's that he always followed orders. And this is what was always to alluded to in his later career with the Mafia was gonna serve him well on their Lino an exactly anyway this way. You had an amazing like unbelievable tour in Europe in terms of what his his lock and getting out of it but also shock that it put into but like the way he put. It finally was discharged in nineteen forty five The way he put it was that he was discharged. Officially only according to the calendar because it never left see for the rest of his lawyers. I always it always stayed with him. He's still in the Warren's moment precisely so that that's that's that's basically his career open done and then sent. She comes back to America. What he's a changed man. Yeah as many many men would have been of course at that time but So he meets Russ on the roads. Apparently well initially. Yeah so he would`ve. He would've got many different jobs at shown in the film. You know liver stuff. Yeah it would be the first time in these teamster. Union's come so important later. Us involved in Kinda Robin Hein hindquarters beef all type attain. But it was small-scale stuff. It's going down. A lot of people were over at the time. Yeah and he was twenty five when he came back from the war and he could he so he. He's so when all of this killing is going on. This is formative. So He'd have between the age of twenty and twenty five. This is crazy and then like if you think about that now like when I was twenty five very rarely timing shoelaces. Know what I mean but So he can. He comes back anyway to this world what. He says he couldn't go back to normal life. He all he had to be outside. He couldn't be an you know you're on anything. He missed trailer things. There's one example. Where like he he used to get in fights bit like is fodder for arguments sakes once he actually fought kangaroo? And it's a great story. Actually because it actually make May. He met his first wife after so he was outside so we must have one that. Yeah well such people looking at just image. It is and it's wasn't into film but a kangaroo boxing gloves. I think that might have been stretched credentials even for Netflix. If they if they're even with two D aging technology CGI kangaroo. Basically he fought he people would have challenged his kangaroo and he got up and he was drunk and he starts kicking the Shit Outta kangaroo but he kept getting hit in the back of the head and he was like what the folks going on here and he kept three turned around and kept looking at the ref and he taught was ref so Danny Sar kicking the shit out our f what it was actually kangaroo with him with his tail back ahead every time and then he got arrested and all these things so he had a few wildfires. That incident did lead them to getting married so he married an Irish guy. Feel you skip steps. He fights kangaroo kicks referee gets arrested. An married yes so Mary Mary. Mary was in the crowd. Okay she saw them and he basically went around Astro. Only date Blah Blah Blah. The rest is history. Another another Irish Ours Americanized she. Yeah Mary let she would have been Irish Catholic. They had three daughters together In in this particular Myers. So that's where we are. Basically coming up to. When Frank starts to make his first steps into he's married he's got major post traumatic stress disorder. And he's basically doing odd jobs robin money here and there and fighting Congress exactly. Yeah we just saw frank our hero. If you will meet with Russ Buffa. Lino two parts of the major Trinity of the Irishman. And we'll get into Hoffa later but auto holy turn the unholy trinity indeed so from this meeting between Frank and Russ What springs forth on. What's going on with? Russ at this time. Yes Oh Russell before Lino as mark told me not bef- Alina right so sorry but Foreign in one thousand nine hundred three in Sicily known as the quite done. Yeah at what I find interesting about. Russell is that she hadn't who was obviously Frank Sharon. Excuse me he was obviously a very good friend of him. described Russell as the most like Marlon Brando's portrayal of a God fodder in film. The Godfather hurt white understated calm ordering murders. Southeast breeze pretty chilled out. Exactly every ten was honor and Yeah exactly and they're just deadly but also extremely courteous and yet personable as well as that's how he's depicted where you know. Nobody like shown in the film Mike. nobody really knew you know what was going on. But he had a finger in everything everyone was always coming around his Sewing business there's a lot there's a lot made about adleman. Franks driving around. He's always gonNA stop here. He's always gonNA stop there because he's got business everywhere and everyone treats them the right way and he treats everyone the right way and yeah a lot of thing we just short no as that wanted to teams that made the mafia different was that they did a lot of their business personally. Oh La was. That's why their phone calls or so cryptic so they won't have phrases like our friend. Yes the guy. The little our little friend in Our little friend in buffalo yet this type of thing so it was. It was all done kind of in I suppose in person and the idea was that they couldn't be the that was less ears censorship But Yeah Russell. The name was he was his territory really as a boss was Pennsylvania. Upstate New York Buffalo. But he also would have had interest is mark alluded to earlier about in Canada because it was under board or you would have had interest in Florida. Now we see him and a lot of the mafia generation of this time in the mid fifties They had interests in Cuba. Yeah and so for example role Salata Racetrack and a casino in near Havana And they all had this busy. Cuba was like this. Sort of a playground yeah criminal criminally minded and unwieldy the guys who are mentioned earlier in the in the commission including the the the Luciano's advisors Jewish guys Meyer lansky Bugsy Siegel. These guys have got money. Invested to Cuba to we mentioned boardwalk empire earlier nookie Thompson in the final season. That this it's after the collapse of the of the of the prohibition that's gone a lot of a lot of the action. The early episodes of the final season take place in Cuba. And that's that's a reference to you all the Mamounia sweat that's swirling around Iraqi about this time. Yeah I mean don oviously stops at some orange right issue stops when Castro makes a stop right. Yes so like a we can get into this. But wanting really important part of Rosa's life as a boss was his hatred of Castro and a lot of his big motivations for his overall overarching strategy related how he interacted with the government and all that was motivated by his desire to get back his Cuban properties and to to turn Cuba back into an American playground essentially. And so. You're you're alluding to to Mob Interaction with the government so mafia interaction with the government and this is leading up to pay pigs yet. That comes on that comes on later. There too is essentially they would have had involvement there. I suppose we'll have to talk about the Kennedy's as well at this time. Though I suppose he he he support he would have supported basically. Jfk's election though in nineteen fifty nine Battista who was basically Mob Man ruining Cuba for wanted namely. He's a president what he was the president of Cuba. Who's the arch nemesis of Castro on check of our on the all the all the revolutionary generation ABC? Castro would've confiscated all the mob lands? Detroit mobsters out. Close the casinos to right. Close close casinos all his type attain. And they they used to make combined tink the Mafia detained matthew made a million dollars a day in Cuba. Just as a major major loss of income So later they did support. Jfk's election simply because they believed that by supporting him they would have Control over the president because they had connections to his father who was originally involved. Pro of issues. Exactly this all kind of getting off a little bit off point but his main motivation in life Russell was control of his family and sent getting his properties back so to be clear. What what we're saying here is bull. Felino on his contemporaries in the Mafia are supportive of. Jfk's run at the presidency because they felt their connection to his father. Joseph Kennedy who a lot of them knew from illegal activities in bootlegging in the earlier days fella they have some level of influence over the American presidents who could influence the situation in Cuba who could then take back uber which we will see their Tennessee to this to give a more specific timeframe the revolution in Cuba. That would've been in the fifties right. I late fifth. Teesta fell in fifty nine at twenty one to tell ya so that was going on for a while there but this coincides of course where the Appalachian Meeting and everything that we talked there where everything before. This was a play ground. I mean I'm like the. Us was also a playground. In a sense there wasn't as much interference and then they're thrown out of Cuba pretty much and at the same time. Have all these issues back home as the main point on the agenda for the Appalachian Meeting is what the Hell we gonNA do about Cuba? I see okay so it's a lot of. Its influence. The other thing too to know about this time is that this is when Russell and frank began to respect each other and began to do jobs. Free Chitter do each other favors as they said and this is where the famous line I hear you pray. You PAINT HOUSES K. Man Essentially Russell would use a frank she and as a someone to handle problems firm so so the scene of the scene in the movie. That pixes is this. What really happened there. They're sitting for for for dinner. Unbelievable hands on the phone. It's Jimmy Hoffa this Jimmy Hoffa. So this is the last pirated to trinity of these treatments. On Jimmy Hoffa's played by Al Pacino houses. Frank Sharon says well frankly share in says. I do my own carpentry to get rid of all these two example smuggling. Oh so yet these these these tree. Mendan- are connected. Their whole lives are connected from Dan on We should probably talk a little bit about Jimmy Hoffa now. Maybe I would like that because I mean as someone coming into this. It's I am the Latino nurse at the end of this film going. Who's this Jimmy Hoffa? Guy? I have no never heard of the mentioned in the film like asking a young personnel. Go idea who this person is. But he's one of the most important people in the country so Jimmy Hoffa getting into his background He's he's that of the teamsters union and again the close connection between mobs the mom and the unions. It's just one of these things where you go. I guess it makes sense that the. Us doesn't believe in organized labor like from thinking of a union is not the same thing at all as like. Oh of course there's Mafia involvement the MA. I mean the Ma the mob have have. There's always been some level of connection between the mob on union certainly in New York so when I was talking to earlier about the formation of the guys any organization of the gangs. Those organizational skills were obviously very handy for for union work. So you always had some level of you might WanNa call infiltration but you always have some level of crossover between the organized crime in an unions. You'll also see an owner hatred series The wire you have the the unions of all the in the drug trade there that was that was pretty prevalent in New York too. So I mean w that a character as amoral has office seems to be being involved as the leader of a union that's Kinda stance the sponsor reasons constitute to make a bit of science in the American context. Yeah Dot just want to mention if you've got say about real soul which made him quite different in a lot of what you consider. Modern Mafia is that he didn't believe in the drugs. Trade like you were saying mark earlier old school Sicilian old-school drugs exactly but Jimmy. Hoffa essentially deterred Wrong of this unholy trinity. When you you were asking about the teamsters Jake did you look into teamsters in any way I mean They drive trucks so I know that now so that means does that count as looking into it Mike. How fact she had a quote which he said she apparently and it was If you get it truck brought it to you yesterday. And she's so simple in the in the film as well he's like if you've got a truck brought to great speeches as well. I mean as depicted in the film and because of that it was described. Basically the teamsters to buy two million members Essentially Transport Workers Hoffa had basically Komo as he originally when he was a he was born in nineteen thirteen to. He's a bit older and frank But he would have Organiz. He was always working with the strike so he had organised his first strike when he was nineteen years old okay and he was Bassi. Someone who used to unload fruit and VEG LORRIES. But he true his hired graft and because he was such a charismatic great speaker he was able to convince at people to go along with him and so he kind of rose true to ranks of the Union. Yeah an ad played a big part in consolidating all the different unions like in the actual growth the fact that there's millions of people it seems like an impossibly big and powerful organization and that as in large part thanks to Jimmy Hoffa putting together. I exactly and he would the way he was. The working. Man. In America is always shortchanged an heats. He knew that if there was wasn't unity within the unions dot the bosses as he called them like Henry four to leave that captains of industry. These guys these guys who believed that union unionism. The defining of unions was worst thing to ever happen. This type of thing he. He basically brought them together and he didn't care because he knew that unity was his biggest weapon so as long as the strikes couldn't broken and as long as he had complete control over millions of people and he could say. Lay Down your tools tomorrow. You're not going to work. He knew he could freeze and Brinda country to a halt at anytime so he was basically he was called the most powerful man in the country next to the president. It's an extraordinarily powerful position for for a guy to be on uneasy knob largely true force. A personality isn't it He did it like detained with wait a minute. It is shown in the movie like he believes. And he's he's quoted as saying that the end justifies the means. You know yeah. He didn't mind using murder bombing arson was. Here's where I'm like all of the first stuff you just said sounds great. You know you need all legal. That's all legal stuff. Yeah murder and just like the actual end goals being you know they sound quite decent of being able to save the working man a decent wage and all these limiting is socialism to me to define American lovely socialism but people did love him and he did have genuine popularity. He was as famous. He was caught. He like he was as famous as Elvis and the Beatles between nineteen fifty five and seventy five. Everyone knew he was. Everyone knew his vice. Because you'd often hear him under radio. Tv It goes all clever lines that type of thing. Well it's a clever line you were saying earlier about. I might have faults all being wrong. One of them. He all these things going firm but he's maintaining was in terms of he didn't mind using violent but it was keep. Yunessi he so he used it against his own people. If one local union was trying to break away from his national his but stomping on he'd use the likes of Frank Sharon to do that. So that's where basically share in Both Fellini Apathy. No excuse me and Jimmy Hoffa. That's where they all come together because they all need each other to a certain extent and she in in fear and in many ways is the bridge between the two guys. Yeah I mean come on. We know this. From my one-sentence summer an aging hitman looks back on entanglements link between the Mafia and the prolific union leader. Now it's under nine hundred twenty s New Speaker going on there but anyway so we have Jimmy Hoffa incredibly powerful man like what you're describing again. Sounds like good goals. Do the end justify the means not in the end. Not really with how things ended up. I'd say because it seems like at one point he was just lending. I mean lending money illegally to the Mafia. See this is the thing like his. His power came from the fact that he was head of the teamster union. It's basically they had a massive pension fund and this was worth at the end when Sheeran was leaving leaving this crowd and leaving the scene. He said it was worth about. A billion and essentially the mafia overtime grew to cdot pension fund teamsters pension fund so used for a trucker to retire with his family. They saw that as their own private bank. Easiest way opponent today. This HOFFA SARSOUR got into hot water with some of these mafia bosses disputes over the use of the pension fund. Exactly so he didn't mind lending money but he always got it Yeah at but what essentially happened. Hafer is that he went because he was so dodgy really. He eventually went to prison because he went to prison. He couldn't control them his roy his his his union as much. There was a new boss. Put IN B fits fins film it as a sort of bumbling guy likes to play golf and let's the Mafia and anyone who likes to use the pension fund not only as a bank but as an actual piggy-bank exactly and the thing was that fits didn't get the money back yet and at the end of the day. He's mismanaged situation. Well Hoffa's fuming in prison. Yeah Papua's crippling. He would have taken kickbacks and payments and all anger's book detailing was he did believe in the Union and like he did radically improve the conditions of the workers like he got them as sick leave. He got them yet. Pensions he got him all. These practical holiday paid these things. They never had setting aside the ones that were presumably murdered by frank on his command. Exactly what general trump? This is the say what you like about. Mostly the trains arrived on time but the reason he was so popular within his organization and he got continually voted back in was because of the practical benefits. He was our leader just the way he went. It was horrific. Yeah so this is the ends justify the means that you're talking about. Let's talk about here. So yeah he's big office. Biggest problem and his biggest rival was actually the Kennedys at now his hatred. For Kennedy's is incredible at so essentially. Was We mark was talking about earlier. Basically the Mafia decided to roll in between behind JFK at election because they believed it would give them control back over Cuba. I don't know why. But the Kennedy Family Connection to organized crime is is is is long storied like we mentioned about Joseph Kennedy Ardor. Why would they Why would they get control back over? Cuba well Cuba's hopping out of the Cold War The Cuban missile crisis. If you're American on your working foreign policy dod that you'd have a social well. I was GONNA say Social Communist Revolution in Cuba completely on animal but that also just happens to play into the hands of the Mafia had all their they're under Batista so if JFK is running for president. He's the guy who you think you can influence on. He's making all the right noises of ACCUA. You'RE GONNA this Guy 'cause Chazar and they do and they roll in anders allegations that the Mafia in the US essentially us. Ed People's votes to get Kennedy elected in swing states and a how allegedly allegedly. How can a firm does that? Like alleged okay just in case the current. Joseph Kennedy who I believe is a congressman from Massachusetts runs for president which lets beyond see probably is going to do at some point. I'm because president. I'm happy to hear this podcast. We're alleging these things. Also we'd love a review on Apple. Podcasts Johnny Yeah So. Jfk subsequently was elected. Yeah what what what they didn't anticipate was. That is bro. Robert Kennedy was sensually holier than Thou holier than I he was he was immediately appointed by is broader as the Attorney General's most most powerful lawyer in the US. Beautiful piece of nepotism. There you get away with it now. Maybe you would want anyone in room. Tell Me What von Control job actually is actually an jared kushner. And all that. Yeah no you're right. He's going to solve. The middle. East is Kushner guy hundred percent. Yeah so So Robert Kennedy became. He was on a moral crusade. He wanted to expose and take down organized crime and he also wanted to get rid of Hafer who he considered a like a devil an cancer at the heart of America. You consider these things. He actually set up a squad colleague. Get hoffer squad. Yes yeah so from from Kennedy. Just so I'm clear like I. I'm not that I don't know that much about American politics. Probably much like most people in the US. Put The attorney. General is like the head lawyer of the president's most most republic so in Ireland. Hedy attorney. He'd be the headline the that's where the government goes for legal advice. Okay but this would be different. Obviously from say the Supreme Court which is like legislature highest level of. Yeah but this is the executive branch branch within that. It's the legal arm or whatever but Kennedy Robert Kennedy as the Attorney General could direct the whole resources of the FBI against them all the entire entire federal governments region. Now it's the get Hoffa squad. It's not the get mafia squads linked while they are. I mean allegedly and they seem. We're alleging link between the teamsters. Yeah so but the interesting thing is so the. The Mafia supported him Jfk to get into power which led to this But hoffer gave money to Nixon. Yeah so we get it. That's that's what happens later. But essentially what happens is JFK's elected he does try and invade Cuba. He folks up because he doesn't you if any. Us Air support. Jfk is one of these interesting figures because he's regarded like kind of like is. This aimed. Mind is heroic kind of American president. Jfk was an absolutely horrendous individuals. Like just as I honestly now he was one of the worst people to ever hold the office and he was a dreadful president but for some reason people love them well the reasons because he was celebrity but because he was killed as well because he was young. The wife and Arkansas and then his brother Attorney John was also killed later. Might've been better than Nixon though to be fair. Not much better all right. Well the thing was anyway. Sedate attempted to do and this was called the invasion of Bay of Pigs. Now my fears at this was admit it ten years later after the pigs that I was in one thousand nine hundred. Sixty one cents. She's the invasion of Cuba by Hubei by supposed exile from Cuba anticommunist. What it was essentially an American Khuda. Todd they tried to take over. Cuba is this an. I hate to keep asking but this alleged or is this actual. We don't know. It's there was a commissioner this hop in the CIA about the involvement because the way they show it in film involvement even as admitted that was it was a tinkle the church committee in the mid seventies and investigate the Bay of Pigs because it was a debacle essentially admitted yet it was mob mob involvement the basically involvement but also C. I. A. Involvement basically was tinkle Operation Mongoose. And the the that was to the idea was that the mob would polly's Castro obey pigs and India invasion would take place. None of it worked. It all went to shit basically Well this made the mafia very very angry wit the Kennedys because all of a sudden your whole reason for volt trying to get the Kennedys. Elected is gone. They failed in Cuba under their process. Trying to prosecute them yet almost fixing because that failed. They're like oh well in that case we're GONNA TURN MORE TOWARDS THE MAFIA. The people who helped get me elected. This and didn't see. This is where now the the the conspiracy around. Jfk's assassination comes in and this is alleged isn't isn't there circumstantial evidence Frank Sheeran. Our friend here claims he brought Goldens to a certain place. It's not he said he brought tree high-powered rifles to a certain airbase. All these type of things but these were a bit in the film where he brings that before the Bay of Pigs. You mean. You're not talking about the day of K. Assassination brings a separate rifles in it the Frank Sharon into book alleges that the Mafia basically decided to kill. Jfk and his argument was that they would use the old Sicilian As mark was talking earlier the Old Sicilian Motto. Which was to kill a dog? You don't could off its tail. You could off. Its head so they really wanted to get rid of Rob Bobby Kennedy. Who's trying to prosecute him but they knew once J. F. K. Was GONE ONCE. They got rid of him. I'll be had no more. Power is interesting because in the film. I guess The problem seems to be more that the Kennedys are going after Hoffa rather than the mafia But yeah I mean who knows exactly what happened there. It's it's what they were going after mob as well. They were going probably. Bobby Kennedy was setting up wiretaps he was doing all these things against them up so it was it was a two pronged attack sensually and and we don't usually stick to the facts and such but just based on reading the book based on your background information on this. What do you guys think what actually you know was there mafia involvement in the death of JFK An entirely possible. I would say maybe even probable if the walls in Fox I would say at least considered by buddy. Yeah and I would say like like you said there's this is in fact but you have to Likud benefits with these situations after. Jfk's assassination the hunt for them. There's a new. There's there's Lyndon Johnson. He has a new attorney general eventually. He backs off completely. He doesn't go after the Maffia anymore. Hoffer win when JFK died said I'll be Kennedy is just another liar. Now basically he doesn't and that's in the film. I think yeah. Yeah you know that. He doesn't have any power. He was only powerful because of his broder and now he's gone so I don't know nobody knows and there's more intelligent people in Austin have looked true this and have been able to come to a conclusion so I'm not going to stake bed on it but it's murky and offered him to be involved in it. Yeah and let's see so I mean Hoffa still was earlier that same year. Nineteen sixty three. He was In one though yeah I was indicted and then it was in March that he was convicted. So didn't really work out for him. Either way was still convicted to prison. Yeah he was convicted for jury. Tampering he was dodgy Are and sentencing. The the George Actually said you stand convicted of tampering with the soul of the nation. But he every every every jury member he tried to he tried to actually corrupt he tried to actually Spend money to buy them all so essentially all anyway brings us to Hoffa goes to jail. The mob has a little bit arrest bite from the from from investigations from the FBI and all that type of thing and go back to business as usual trying to used pension fund as a as they're buying your bank essentially what happens day and we'll have why was Jimmy Hoffa assassinated or disappeared. We don't know if he's asked me well. I just want to touch before that. So at this point just to get the timeframes right frank. Sheeran has been with You know been with the Mafia for a number of years at this point and obviously the story it's a mob story but it's also about the actual The aging like. It's I think that he sold it to the actors. Some of whom were not willing to do another mob thing. I think that was patchy was like I don't WanNa do like retired. This is coming into retirement on your like you want me to come into retirement to do another mob basically sold it like no. It's going to be different and the way that it is differently put together. It's an aging man looking back on his life and the actual deaths and everything they become miniscule compared to the like the the fall that comes to everyone dies eventually in prison orange shot in that originally said in the film shows. I like at the at the opening real a lot of the characters they were mentioned in it gave the year they got murdered. Bad Kinda glamorized was. Yeah so this was going to say it is one thing you would say but the movies it does not glamorize the mob like under there is a there is an element Of that I think Ju just in Hollywood on in American culture channel well probably Western Culture January this kind of the admiration for the sly this law. You kind of you can get away with a kind of thing and the mob is an expression of that so think even with shows like the sopranos part of the draw of that. Is You get to see people who live outside of the rules. And it's kind of a power fantasy right. Yeah but this movie doesn't really doesn't read. Data shows a thought for you. Know the slimy kind of grime that really is and the fact that the fresh air is clearly a monster really. Oh years yeah and like we said. He was shaped by his childhood his war experience. What the crux of the movie comes to it to is his choice stole because essentially Jimmy Hoffa his shooting Jimmy Hoffa or Russell Felino. There's a great scene when Sharon is speaking to to Hoffa and Sheeran is now be made aware by both Lino that the commission of the side of the Office. GotTa go on E. Houses conversation where he's basically. It's what it is. Jimmy Jimmy. Listen to me as a office. They can't kill me off. Oh yeah you. They wouldn't dare on fire to know. Jimmy listen to me is is what is what is the Buffalo Felino later Ross says says thameslink. We did everything we could for this month. Yes and he also says Russell says to Frank In the book now this is obviously this part of the filaments the end of the film. But it's also the murky part of the book and historically. We don't know really what happened on the Tortilla. July nineteen seventy-five put put Jimmy Hoffa hasn't been seen since essentially well Sharon as he said. He does do on carpentry so he does do his own carpentry. And what the reason just to touch on before we go is does. Essentially the reason Jimmy Hoffa angered demob. Was that he got he was in prison. He lost control but when he got out of prison he had such allowed which we also offer from here but he had such allowed my dad he wanted to take back control of the teamster union lost control of the problem with that was he kept shouting about it. And saying you know how I I have still on. Everybody knows about everyone. Exact mafia cannot let Assad remember at. This is not a guy who's been is warning of murder he's not made. Yeah and I mean another thing. That's left out of the film. Is I read about Jimmy. Hoffa the deal you basically struck a deal with Nixon gave Nixon on Nixon. Let him out of prison powered presidential but there was a rule in there. That said you can't run for leadership of any organized. Sort of workforce at all ten in nineteen eighty which was like five years in the future. Or WELL YEAH. I miss that but I just know that he was he said I never agreed to that. So like after he was basically pardon. Yeah he's up mom. I'm just doing what I want any way too late. You let me so in the film. It's depicted as sort of running to get back control. It seems a bit less likely when you read into the historical but he also he starts shouting about Mafia saying he started talking about the that his that the current head of the teamsters union so his rival fair's fair who originally put in. He starts saying that he's always lend money to the Mafia saying this out loud in the newspapers and he leaves increased. This is the desperate. Oldman who want power snatching to try and get it back. Exactly also saying that he was going to take back the loans and collateral. And all this today spooked. The Mafia is spooked Russell. Bufalino this SPOOK THEM. All because they fred they were afraid they're gonNA lose to piggyback. Just even just the fact that he's being so loud the mafia's does not show last thing is just like say nothing. You know. Yeah and he would have disappeared as we'll get into seventy five and then like you said at the start of all his mark in the eighties. Everything Kinda gets up anyway as far as public knowledge some high profile arrests in the Eighties. And some people flip. But he's on the dots not seen the reference to sopranos with Jonny sack. You know he's on trial on the the Jewish has home audit prosecutor Are you a member of an organized? Crime Group referred to as a Nostra and he says yes and of course the Leotard. Okay no you never admit. The existence of the thing won't even say what it is but the thing the thing yeah and Sadat remains mistreat. Today's date Frank Sheet share in has admitted to killing but so as fourteen order peop- A lot of people don't take that makes me believe that Sharon might of donate is because as is shown in the film. He falls out with his daughter. Peggy had four daughters two different wives and his daughter. Peggy is I think who was his oldest or she was the oldest. She never talked to him since today. Jimmy Hoffa went missing because she he was like an uncle tour in the in the book as well as a reference to the author makes his speaking to autozone on They name a bunch of people in a At a lot like Hoffa was alleged to have gotten the car where he wouldn't al Qaeda choke choke yeah. He wouldn't get in the car with him. He wouldn't have gotten the car then he says Sharon he's like yeah he'd get in the car sharing. Yeah Yeah Yeah so irit did Tang White. This is was a frank says that the decision to paint the house had been made. And that was it what it is Jimmy and he had to choose between Russell and Jimmy Hoffa and he believed that Russell had saved his life for many years of one time I had been seven contracts out in his head and Russell started it and he also knew that if he didn't kill if he didn't kill Jimmy Hoffa even though he was one of his best friends that he would have been killed. Yeah so I I think there's some truth in it simply because if he wanted to reestablish a relationship with his daughter in later years why would he freely admits that he had killed the man very reason that relationship and as you said dot case has yet to be solved still and that's two thousand and twenty nine? Yeah while I mean everyone Is going to think that frank those thirteen or fourteen other people can They may as well not have confessed because there is now a one hundred. Fifty million budget movie The tells this side of the story. This is the this is how people remember history. It's not the winners the right history. It's the filmmakers at least that's our motto here just before we wrap up so the the disappearance like in the film chucky. The foster son of Jimmy Hoffa is driving the car which was kind of confusing to me. 'cause I was like oh he's he's depicted as not being on it or maybe an honest in the book. It's like he's an innocent bystander. Frank Says Daddy. Essentially is being used as a notre way of softening. Jimmy Hoffa said that he wouldn't get into the car sensually yes he. He felt safe around. Yeah rank and his. You wouldn't expect it is is his best friend or one of his best friends. Essentially on his steps on. Frank even said like wanted to people felt set. More sorry for was off steps on Choke Jogi at because he was involved allegedly in inadvertently allegedly involved in the. Apparently the fish bid is actually a fish. You Know Ours. Book is concerned again. Yeah this Koby Adult Memories over regretful. Man In his Asia East because Essentially Frank. Dade go on to live until he was a a tree he died. He loved the Sopranos. He died. Just yeah he will watch the Sopranos. He was aware of it anyway. He never. He said he watched it but he did. Refer to it in the book and he would say like Oh. That's where New Jersey. That's where the Sopranos is New Jersey. You know this type of North Jersey on North Jersey. Yes today's continuation there definitely so hoffa disappears and probably killed definitely killed Probably by frank possibly or at least someone like in connection with all of that may be. Frank is just you know working from his own motivations to glorify himself for whatever weird reasons he never got that meeting with. Melfi who knows what's going on in his head. Fbi agents have said that they believe frankness. The all or had some involvement would still never put on. I think it's fair to Sizewell Hoffa's family der Der Schuh Sharon right. I mean Office daughter of a soon the their they think. I believe that pretty much wraps up everything we need to get into. Of course you can find more at shows which you know dot com of both of our podcasts. Before that there's there's just one more thing I want to say whilst that cut to black.

New York Frank Sharon Mafia Sopranos America Sicily Paul Kelly Joe boss Mazari Italy Philadelphia Tony murder New York Charlie Luciano Martin Scorsese United States Europe Bernado Colombo Gambino Genove Russ Netflix
13: Bonus 02: The First Casino

Mafia

28:09 min | 6 months ago

13: Bonus 02: The First Casino

"Before Las Vegas before Atlantic City people still wanted to gamble and one man realized is an all inclusive casino resort could be a money making machine. He was tightly associated with Tammany Hall. You know they were the power. Brokers that Rian New York City and more see himself became quite affiliated with himself. He was essentially enforcer with dead rabbits and the other against the other gangs and if there were issues the tame any hall needed settled they sent Morrissey and his people out to settle it. So Morrissey eventually splits from Tammany Hall comes up to Saratoga Springs and first thing he does is start to racecourse. Of course it was nowhere near the big city and will to do politicians but Saratoga Springs two hundred miles away from the center of gangs and gangsters became the gambling. Capital of the United States attracted everyone from Cornelius Vanderbilt to Arnold Rothstein. That was really the heyday of the gambling. I mean there were there. Were dozens of places you can get. You could gamble but really put her on the map to the extent that people would call it the Monte Take Carlo of America it was the most fabulous you know elegant gambling place. In all of America this Mafia the first Casino Saratoga Springs was founded ended shortly after the revolutionary war. Even from its early days it was made to be a tourist spot. The I hotel was built in the early eighteen. Hundreds the founder Gideon Putnam James. Perello is the executive director of the Saratoga Springs. History Museum and then getting Putnam is our first founding entrepreneur who builds Putnam's tavern and boarding house directly across what is Broadway today from our structure. The canfield casino and his is thoughts was build it. They will come like many antebellum towns. Saratoga benefited greatly from the expansion of the railway. The wrong wrong factor was the economists. Spring waters thought to be good for healing any ailments the spring waters here while it's formed their pockets spring water. All all under all through the under the Shales Toga. We have a fault line that runs directly through our city and when that fault shifted millions of years ago that allowed the spring water to percolate to the surface natural spring. Water was a common prescription for the wealthy and a draw for new European immigrants along with a hotel. The town became known for European style. Spas where people would drink the water or even bathe in it to get. Its benefits. Tom Burns is an educator at at the Saratoga History Museum Saratoga becomes a basically a summer vacation for the wealthy and from Eastern Europe coming here because because they heard about the springs. They're very useful spring water. They bathe in it. They drink it they accept. This is something. They're looking forward to you levels at the spring water. But you're probably never going to really early be friends however that very diverse clientele. That could come here. James said that during the summer New York City was hot humid and smelled terrible terrible from garbage in horses for those who could afford it. Getting out of the city was essential but traveling two hundred miles in the early eighteen hundreds was a long long trip so Saratoga became a bustling town for the entire summer but aside from the spas the new sudden influx of people needed something to occupy. Hi there time. The obvious hobby gambling so horse racing to appeal to all in all the masses. People were coming here For the spring water but they would come drink the water and then had business dealings et mum and also visit with their peers butts. People people needed things to do so vast gambling started here. Zuni pictures classics proudly presents the traitor the new epic crime drama directed by Legendary Filmmaker Marco Bellocchio about the one man who brought down the entire Mafia in Italy. The a trader tells the True Story of Tomas O.. Bouchette the man who in the early eighties brought down the Cosa Nostra. After an all out war rages between concilium mafia bosses over the heroin trade with shadow eventually makes a decision that will change everything for the Mafia and betray the eternal vow he made made to the Cosa Nostra. The Guardian calls the trader show-stopping a big true crime gangster movie while Roger Ebert Dot Com. Tom says the trader is absolutely gripping a big Brash Extravaganza Director Marco Bellocchio has created a masterpiece says the National National Newspapers Publishers Association. The trader is riveting in every way brilliant and revealing. The trader has astounded audiences Can New York and Toronto Film Festivals. And soon you will be able to experience the true crime film of the season. The traitor opens a New York and Los Angeles on January thirty first and everywhere this February from Sony pictures classics even even as a new town. Saratoga was a place that was rife with gambling. Current police chief. Greg Beach says that there had always been vice crime going all the way back to the town charter while the charter specifically commands the Police Board to suppress gambling. Now doesn't say anything about crime doesn't say anything about burglaries or watching for house fires. It says the Police Board will suppress gambling. So there's an inkling there that probably gambling is already here but the police. It didn't really suppress gambling at all. Veto also said that police forces were still new and didn't get a lot of training. Corruption was par for the of course. The police were sort of expected to be corrupt. It was accepted that they were corrupt to certain level. I and people really didn't give it too much. Slaughter care too much about it unless it was brought up in the open and you'll Tammany Hall. People didn't liked him and he all but they accepted the fact that all the police around take who was just that's part of doing business but when the corruption became to blame or when it became our of a court case then people would get get upset about after all if gambling was bringing in tourists and making money for the town. Why would they these Sir Toa Kinda struggled with were they going to be in law and order town down or were they going to turn the town over to the gamblers and the gangsters and day for the most part? They did an so. Syra Togo was the perfect place for the ventures of one gangster in particular John Morrissey. John was a Irish immigrant. He probably came through Canada to this area. They settled in troy which was an industrial city. He was a An iron worker. He was very strong. Obviously obviously he was. He was kind of a fighter. Kind of near do well Not necessarily academic or a student And he was an enforcer for the local pubs and and and brothels in in the area troy born in upstate. New York Morrissey moved to the city in eighteen. Fifty eight to start a job on the ducks that the time. Although New York City organized crime was nothing like it would be after prohibition it still had a few structured operations downtown town Manhattan was under the control of two rival street. Gangs the bowery boys and the dead rabbits. The bowery boys supported politics that were largely anti anti immigrant. Their most notable member was bill. The butcher the dead rabbits however were made up of Irish immigrants and their most most notable member became John Morsi he became the leader of a gang called the dead rabbits you know. He really established himself as the dominant presence in New York and he it was a huge guy by the time for the time period. Six foot one his One of his best attributes are great after beats was USA one on top street fighter. He made a name for himself that way. There were some street. fights on the streets and doxa he was severely beaten Morrissey was also known as an impressive bare knuckle fighter and had competed as a heavyweight boxer. It got him a lot of attention. Boxing also illegal they used to box on state lines uh-huh and when the cops came they ran to the other state So John Marcy becomes heavyweight champion and is probably funded and supported by wealthy patrons because IOS wealthy people in those days really we're running out of things to To better the the their fellow competitors on between his boxing accomplishments and dead dead rabbits association Morrissey soon became involved with the rich and powerful and he was tightly associated with Tammany Hall. You know they were. The powerbrokers offers that Rian New York City and Morsi himself became quite affiliated with him. So he was essentially an enforcer with the dead rabbits and the other against the other gangs and if there were issues choose the team any hall needed settled. They sent more in his people out to settle it. Tammany Hall was new. York City's enormous and wealthy political machine at the time they supported a lot of pro immigrant policies. But we're also merciless to their opponents and we're ruthless in their politics and he basically basically greets the immigrants gets them jobs and apartments and extorts money from them and make sure that they vote the right way. After retiring from boxing Morrissey set aside on establishing houses of gambling and one of his stops was not far from where he grew up in troy. So Morrissey Eventually splits from Tammany Hall comes up to Saratoga Springs. And first thing he does is he starts a racecourse. He starts to a race track in eighteen sixty two and ends along with few business partners in the form. What's called the Saratoga Racing Association? which is the early early predecessor to what we have today called the association? The racetrack must phenomenally successful. Although most horses in the eighteen sixties were involved in the civil war with morrises connections. He was able to persuade his wealthy friends to bring their best courses. report say they were originally four days in a rule of racing thing in betting it was so popular that over time it was extended to forty days and Morrissey had bought a second property across the street from the track was an old hotel and water. Bottling so perfect place for John Morrissey to build a gambling casino. Because if you're going to be on the race for half during the day you come down so Morrissey could bank have people bank with him at that restrict and then come right into the gambling seem so aw casino opens in eighteen seventy and it becomes a very significant building in the history of our city. I wouldn't say I'm gambling man but I like to play a game or two you what I really love is a good casino. The Bright Colors the fund music the interesting characters and recently I found a game. Aim with all of those things. That won't cost me the house I'm talking about. It's a game on your phone. You can play anywhere. Where and for as long as you have time for it's a puzzle game where you match colors and shapes so it's a game of skill where you can make your own luck? This is a casual game but it's challenging made for adults but you don't need to be over. Twenty one to play and with new levels and events vents monthly. It keeps you on your toes and the characters so great so cute. They're mostly books like moves the stag beetle and each have their own personalities. You'll need to take into account to get to the next level. It's like putting together your own little gang for the job. Aw and the best part you can play anywhere. You don't need Internet so it even works on your vacation in the middle of nowhere. Engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters with over one hundred million downloads. This five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must just download best fiends for free on the apple APP store or Google play. That's friends without the our best fiends Morrissey established the Saratoga clubhouse and turned it into a luxury resort. All the furnishings were made by two New York City CD designers and made entirely of sullen would. The floors were carpeted wall to wall. And he later got the likes of Frederick Law Own Stitch to work on some of the landscaping was. This was all designed by the herter brothers Isa to German Furniture makers from New York City who also If you ever go to Vanderbilt Museum you'll see that. Most of the furniture is done by the her her brothers and designed by the herter brothers but Morrissey was careful with his business he wanted. Oh to keep the favor of both the citizens and of the authorities. The gambling house was run under three very strict rules. You were closed closed. They were closed on Sunday in deference to the clergy Saratoga. No women were allowed to gamble. Because that's how I thought of People Beck and how he thought a women they needed. It'd be protected from divisive and last leader third rule was nobody from Saratoga Springs was allowed in the building at all beach explained that Morrissey see learned a lesson from a French. German town called Baden. The citizens of Baden would go out gambling every evening and would lose all their money. He eventually Angelie. Everyone in the town had to go on welfare and the locals no longer wanted casino more seeing understood that if you were you were aware locals lost all their money and then had to go on the welfare rolls in Saratoga. People will present you So they deliberately did not let locals play however you could play at any number of other places there were certainly dives certainly places where you can play for a nickel. You didn't have to have money. Where evening attire in addition Morrissey he made sure anyone who might oppose a house of gambling was appeased? He made large donations to the churches and charities of Saratoga and took care of the townspeople. So if your church needed steps he would give you the money to build new steps for your church. If if a if a young woman you know was her husband was died as one story. Her husband passed away and she was having trouble making her mortgage so John Morrissey paid her mortgage. Moore's the eventually was elected to Congress and and later to the Senate gaining him more political favor and the police force has featured said. We're not going to make a fuss if no one complained and the town wanted the establishment. There were opponents to him not very many local opponents but nationally. This everybody nobody knew the clubhouse was it was a gambling joint and one reformer but any. Nellie bly wrote a paper award an article in the Frank Leslie's illustrated and I I think it was an eighteen. Seventy one in blasted evils of Saratoga Springs the sins of the city and had a beautiful engraving of John Morrissey with Oval. Very short man was a poor pauper begging for credit because Moore's took his mind and so nothing was said while Morrissey was around but he wouldn't be around forever sleep is important and the quality of sleep matters matters Abed night of rest. Might make you grumpy the next day especially terrible if your livelihood requires being friendly and personable I often sleep poorly and I know it's not because I lost all my money at the casino. It's in my mattress until I switched. The purple mattresses are different. 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Two eight four eight eight eight message and data rates may apply in eighteen. Seventy seven Jim Morrissey was staying at his apartment in the Adelphi hotel in Saratoga when he contracted pneumonia for Muncie stayed in his apartment trying to recover any actually passes away. He had to business partners that were associated with him through Racing Association Albert Spencer. Charles read They took over took ownership Of the Casino over there too short period that they ran at four about six years. The essentially drove the place into the ground are sixteen years. One was undercutting the other stealing money. Spencer in read ran the Casino. You know as usual until minority shareholder wanted to make his own Richard Canfield known as Prince of the gamblers. Templars bought the casino. Outright Canfield was a wealthy art collector and had several other gambling houses including one in Rhode Island and one in New York City city after buying Morris He's club he renamed the establishment after himself and gave it an eight hundred thousand dollar facelift. A large marble statue was ordered for the grounds and in the back. He added a large dining room for elegant parties. And a new flashy exciting. Now canfield Started have the Zenonas do casino as if you are coming our doors today you see that. The words the Casino Oren blazoned in glass above the doors. Canfield did that kind of bold very bold statement considering that Now he's starting this. I'm schizophrenia. Taking link pressure the the new club even included a rudimentary air conditioner system for keeping the place cool during the hot Saratoga Summers but in eighteen ninety two when the engineers were. We're here they were thinking and plotting. And planning of how inept conditioning system would work so there was a series of fans in our basement that blue cool air through the vents and but that was the formation of the company out of Schenectady the designing and thinking about it air conditioning system sometime in the future. This was the kind of resort that would be recognizable as the hang out of the upper class. That was really the heyday of the gambling. I mean there were there. Were dozens of the places. You can see you could gamble. But Richard Canfield really put Saratoga on the map to the extent that people would call it the Monte Carlo of America does the most fabulous elegant gambling place in all of America and people were for to it again like like the Monte Carlo of America He had a million dollars into safe just in case he had to pay. Hey out he required men to wear Tuxedos and women to have evening gowns and they have dinner and gambling and he really made it a high class displacing. He attracted a lot of money team. He made a phenomenal amount of money. For the time you know on the order of three million dollars was his prophet that he pulled out of Serotonin just just a few years. Canfield became even wealthier off the Saratoga tourists by raising the stakes in the back. Room canfield had a gambling table. Where guests could bit up to ten thousand dollars on a single game but New York towns were going through a transition and Saratoga go was no exception? More and more social and political groups were starting to frown on gambling. And for Canfield high reward. Lorde became high risk. What happened with Richard Canfield is? He followed John Morris. He's roles but he did give credit and by giving out credit he. I started suing people to try to collect the money that he gave out on credit. There was a gambler. That didn't pay off a bat. And canfield cited. He was going to try to collect on that best. We sued them through the Gambler for us. You can't sue somebody for an illegal debt. which attracted attention to him in New York which therefore attracted attention him backyards Erdogan grams? As has the negative attention starts to build upon Him Canfield decides. He's got to do more to make people wind to stay. And that brought notoriety and many people were against gambling and against against the types of people that gambling would bring into town and there were many others in the neighborhood who chose avenues from glens falls became among the chief justice of the Supreme Court These peop- notable people who were totally against gambling and alcohol canfield tried to continue the business but after a few years attendants had gone down significantly. It was no longer economically savvy to opened the casino even in the summer The village did go through a reform wave and he was. He was shut down for a couple of summers and then they were a little finicky. After the turn of the to the turn of the century so I think he just got tired of not knowing whether he's going to be allowed to be open or not by nineteen o six or nineteen. You know seven. I believe he started becoming more negative notoriety and finally the town closes down the casino and by Nineteen Thousand Eight. The city takes over of this building I believe they pay one hundred thousand dollars for it and it became a municipal building and never to be used for gambling or any illicit purposes. again them for a few years. There was no gambling. The city turned the building into a museum but the summer wealth had migrated from New York to Saratoga and with the money came the gangsters and there was a period period of time between when Richard Canfield Stopped operations in nineteen seven in one thousand nine hundred seventeen. Arnold Rothstein invested in his first Claes which was the Arrowhead Alba's lake And he took a different approach than John Morsi. He didn't buy off the citizens he just went directly to the politicians is and the officials and he bought them off. He opened up. Saratoga Springs once more to essentially now gangsters as opposed to gamblers. Arnold Rothstein Gene. The grandfather of the Mafia himself decided to move up to the town that had once been a gambling paradise and turn it into one again. He opened up the Brooklyn which was not only a place for gambling. became an all in one for illegal liquor betting and fine dining So is gambling grew. You started to see the gambling joint starting popping up around lake lonely and Sir totally. And that's why we like to determine the lake house so you have Riley's Lake House Newman's Lake House. The Arrowhead The Metal Brooke. So you have a twenty year period of that with high entertainment and the only glitz and glamour and they ran right through. Prohibition so prohibition actually also hopes their Saratoga because there was a lot of rum running through our city. We're right on the a direct route from Montreal. So runners would get illegal alcohol. Bring it down through either by plane or by vehicle. Greg Beach has a theory that Saratoga yeah really became the inspiration for all casino resorts since two of them and Mentor by Rothstein. Were the brains behind Las Vegas. That Meyer Lansky Bugsy Siegel took the rook model. Because it was an entertainment gambling resort. My theory is they took that model title and brought it to Las Vegas. So we wouldn't have LAS VEGAS. We didn't have the breakout Church Street Saratoga Springs. That's might not think we really summed up on Saratoga Springs history. History is all about and it's theirs to the main thing is we wouldn't be here without the spring water Spring we wouldn't have worse. We wouldn't have tourism without things that brought this developed the city which was horse racing And then the vices came along with it. which is his drinking gambling running? All of that helped us evolve into the city that we are now. This has been an audio boom original production hosted by me fleet cooper it is produced by Harry Sultan. Rachel Jacobs Blair Lear Peyton JC. Georgie and Karen Bevan the executive producers for audio boom are Brendan Reagan and Stewart last for more on the history of gangsters and casinos casinos in Saratoga Springs. Check out the three part series. The wheels keeps spinning wheels. KEEP SPINNING DOT com. Thanks to Sony's the trader best scenes and purple for sponsoring this episode. Follow Mafia on spotify apple podcasts. Or wherever you find find your favorite shows. Mafia will return with season four

Saratoga Springs New York City Morrissey Richard Canfield Mafia John Morrissey Saratoga Tammany Hall Saratoga History Museum Sarato Saratoga Arnold Rothstein Saratoga Springs Las Vegas Gideon Putnam James Church Street Saratoga Springs United States America Saratoga Racing Association Jim Morrissey
MTV Families of the Mafia part 1

Spill it, Sister! Reality TV recaps with Ally

38:20 min | 4 months ago

MTV Families of the Mafia part 1

"Hey I'm Leah and I'm Ali and we're sisters who watched trash. Tv together in this is bill says Sir. Hey everyone welcome back to you spill at sister. Podcast you're here with alley and Leah while come back to our new show. I'm so excited. We're covering a whole new style of show for US yes. Mtv has released a six part Docu series families of the Mafia and we are pumped to be covering this at hat stars Karen Grovonni who's executive producer that you may know from mob wives. Yeah and it's just an interesting take on. All of these people are trying to get out of their ties to the Mafia and how the family dynamics play into everything. And how does this affect the children and all of that and we already have some very interesting characters. Episode ones Excited to cover it. Yeah I love the whole family aspect. I love how everybody is sticking together. It's just I mean I kinda WanNa say it's a breath of fresh air but it's not Yeah but it is a breath of fresh air to see something different to cover something different out of our wheelhouse. Yeah definitely and just. The Mafia has always been interest to me. I used to watch Victoria to have a show a reality show years and years ago with her sons and I loved watching. I thought she was so Lake Buji but it wasn't even a word back then. She does facet me because everybody was scared of her. And she had these boys that were bigger than her and shows just whip them into place and the woman can walk anywhere and she was fear just because of who her father was right and you definitely see some of that happened already on this show as well and I like that. They kind of said in the beginning that it's over two years time span so we're getting sick episodes of this show but it's going to cover two years of these people's lives so I'm like whereabouts. Have some jam packed episodes yet? Karen was on her instagram. The day that it came out and she did like a takeover for MTV and said you know. I want to thank the family so much. Like they put their heart and soul into all of this. We're really just trying to bring back the curtain so you can see what we go through and our trying to get away from it and this is not an easy process for them and I mean I can't imagine like no matter who you are as a family to put all your dirty laundry out there let alone part of the Mafia where privacy is key Yeah this is. It's going to be interesting to see how they balance the like Were you know some people just say quote unquote ally others? Just come right out with it and other people are way more secretive. So it's GonNa be interesting to see how everyone deals with it We have four different families right so we have the KHURANA family. The Oh tools. The Augustine family and the Laura Diaz. Yes so we kind of broke out family by family and towel discuss what happened and break it all down the first episode. Hang in with us as we get. Everyone's name down and everything like that. There's a lot of different characters at play but we're going to try to keep it all straight for you guys. Yeah I did watch. I don't think you did either did not know on. Vh One it previously. When ever I was talking about covering I said Bravo and it was actually on. Vh One. I don't know why I thought was on Bravo but I never really watched it so if you guys did and there was any fun tips or tidbits that we need to send them our way because now I want to go back and watch all of mob wives. I know saying I'm like we need the back story. Yeah all right. So let's start off with the Granados. And we of course get introduced to the Queen. Bee Karen Gra von. Oh yes her. Data's Sammy the Bull Marino. And this is kind of how the Docu series is started is because he is getting out of prison and he's been there for eighteen years. Yeah so she says that she was nineteen when he went into prison. And so this is really like the first time she seeing him outside of prison in her life which is just crazy. Yeah I mean she has a daughter who's what like eighteen. Yeah teenage daughter and their dynamic is so cute her incurring a which. I just love that like her. Name's Karen Shamed her daughter. Carina love that and they are. They seem like they're super close and very tight knit doesn't we? Don't see any love interest for Karen at this time. So I think it's just those two ladies out there on their own and They moved from Arizona to New York. Yeah whenever on yeah. Korea was fourteen so just to kind of get away from it all but she did really because that's where the root of it all is in Staten Island. And I know it now I did see mob wives ended in twenty sixteen. Oh she have moved back to start filming. Bob Lives okay. So that must have been kind of the catalyst because it's like I guess it really wasn't to get away from it all 'cause you would go to like. I don't know Ohio or something. If we were trying to get away from it maybe like Utah. I YOU UTAH. Have the Mafia the probably not but she did say I was watching some energies with her that her dad was pissed when she did mob wives. He's better about it now because he's like why would prefer you to do this. Then be involved in a different way. that he just didn't like it he's like this isn't what the Mafia is about. It's all about secrecy and nobody was getting into fights and public. Yeah I think this this way he has. Sammy has a hand in it and so he can kinda help guide her on how it should be except yeah and tell the story that he wants to tell. Yeah so I thought it was very at would never they introduced the restaurant aspect of it all? I was like what are a what restaurant. What are they saying? They're saying a mob restaurant. Yes so it's like to serve Mafia. No just themed mob themed okay. What does this mean like like they all know about it and they all have your? It's the theme of okay. Maybe well I don't know probably not I can imagine there's some people that don't walk into that restaurant because they probably think her dad was snitch. Bray it's mob themed and like the name of it is based off like the Mafia's code. Yeah and we get introduced to her friend slash. She calls her cousin Ramona. Rizzo and she was so cute. She had her necklace that had like her initials on it. Like just super stylish. Sassy I just loved it all. She was listing off. All those desserts cares like do we really have all. She needed her to know about every single dessert. I Like I want to go there. Now I want to eat there A quarantines over we gotTA TRIP. I'm down and then she goes carrying goes to dinner with her friend. Lisa and with Aunt Trish who we will talk a little bit more about once we get to. That family yacht crossover. It's almost like houswives style. Where different main characters interact with each other? Which I just love to see. And that's what is so crazy with this. Is that there they go on. Say like they're all connected whether they really knew growing up or not like somehow you knew about everybody in Staten Island. Because if your family was an any type of mafia you were just immediately connected. Yeah that's so true. It's yeah it's like a big small world kind of thing and mean not that big but then this is a little off topic so just bear with me guys that I had this thought thought you know that Nicole from the challenge is from Staten Island. Oh that makes sense with her accent right but like does that mean she ties to me. I don't know like I questioned now. I don't know either need to do some research. Let us know if that's come out. I just yeah like whatever. I was watching this. That little light bulb went off my head and I was like Maybe that's why maybe this is all making more sense now to me about Nicole and her loose ask ponytail. She ain't got to worry about her ponytail came. Can Yeah you guys know. That's good so basically. This is all leading up to you. Karen and Carina are going to Arizona to go see Sammy. Yes and they're telling all their friends chatting with everyone about it. We get to meet Paulie. Who's the boyfriend a Yaw? I'm just GONNA like I'm not gonna be able to help myself whole recovering the show to like do my. Staten Island accent. It's going to happen and I think that I love about the show is that I love the way they talk because it's yeah from us because different where in the south and we say y'all to where they say us. Yeah everything is used and it made me give all which I'm sure vice. I that they would be like. What are you saying? Y'All you sound dumb. So yeah we meet Paulie and he's Q. And Seem Sweetie and he's saying by his little girlfriend you know I don't know they just. They seem like they're all pretty tight and I don't know it seems like a good family dynamic. Yeah it does. So then they get to Arizona and we need we meet Nick. Who IS KAREN NEPHEW? WE ME DEB and she's Og yes she is who don't play around. I mean you can just see it in her eyes that grandma that like you don't cross her but also like you love her so much yeah. I would be more scared of her than I would. Sammy one hundred percent behind. Every good man is a strong woman and you know whatever that quotas. She's seen some shit because it same as the bull pled guilty to nineteen murders crazy. The only thing I have to say about that is. How many do people not know about? Yeah the you know who knows about them. Deb PROBABLY DEAF. Deputy everything and that. That's so true in data's trying to get her girls back to Arizona with her which character you don't want to live in that nice ass house. I do and I want to hang out with deb and know all of her secrets. I just WANNA eat her food. Her food is so good on her food. Want her to teach me how to cook. Like give me all of her wisdom. Yeah Oh man. I bet nobody messes with them. Like I know you shouldn't glorify the mafia but it's like you know. Don't mess with you know absolutely not. There's a confidence that they all have. You know it's like no. I'm good so then they go and visit Sami. He's in this beautiful like during normal out in the middle of Arizona. Who knows where I know? They looked like it was in the middle of the desert. Where yeah I think. That's on purpose all. I'm sure you probably have to have the coordinates to get their type of that shit into Google maps absolutely not. So it's like this big lead up. He's like smoking a cigar out honest out on his patio. Like we get these zoom like all these wide shots like it was just such a built up of coming in meeting him and little carina put on her little tiny dress that I'm sure she dresses like that all the time. It does not think about it but I feel like she was nervous coming in because she's got like pulling down her dress noticed and she was like very fidgeting. I feel like in that moment. It was like. Oh Shit why did I wear this? I mean how's your grandfather? I wasn't afford that address my grandfather either but I feel like especially like in Staten Island and like just in the northeast in that culture like that Italian culture. Yeah like that is probably more normal like Jersey. Shore all of that. They all dress like that all the time. And then you're like Oh shit meeting Mike. Graham father and this is kind of awkward. Yeah I agree so then we get a little bit more background about why Sammy is was in jail. What happened and he starts to kind of talk about like his side of the story of what happened with him and John Gawdy. Yes in Korea GOTTI's father who was talking about earlier. Yeah yeah so I mean. It's pretty messed up. Yeah I mean it was all like will you're gonNA take the fall and so I'm going to sell you how it's basically like who can get in trouble. I Yeah I just wonder because it Tori I know she made a few appearances. A mob mob lives even though I didn't watch it. I just wonder like an awkwardness between her and Karen Allen. Our DADS KINDA had beef towards the end. So now you're paying. Do they know each other like come on? They were both well like they know each other but like they like are they friends. Yeah I don't know I don't I need to look into it but I just imagined that or is it. Is there an understanding of today from Each Other? That's the men's world and we're just not going to. Yeah because like how is Sammy GonNa feel about it if she was hanging out with her? You know story. I don't know I look into it some more. So and then Sammy makes this like statement to them of basically like there's there's GonNa be trouble or like there can be trouble for you guys in New York and just like. Give me a call if you need me. Basically and I was like Whoa. You can't go back to New York. Sammy what are you GONNA do? I mean I think he has people. You're just gonNA make some calls. I don't doubt that at all but yeah it was just like you clearly haven't been out of the loop entirely even though no reason for You know of these years. I thought it was insane. Though that he just can't go back to the whole state of New York. You can't go to ever. Yo that is wild. So Yeah. That's it on the GRA. Vino Grab Girvan. Oh sorry family And then we get to meet the tools. Yes I really like Jack Player. Yeah I really. She is like a tough cookie and she's not put up with any shit and she calls people Ou- and she's got quite the handful the deal with with her ex husband whose billy O'Toole tool who has been heavily involved in the Mafia for years and years or had been or was or whatever. Billy's Dad was part of Irish Mafia. Yes a little bit different than what cared was involved in They have twins yet Taylor Joey and they're twins like get in trouble as well. Yeah so apparently Taylor spent some time in rikers. They mention Joey when they have dinner later in the episode has like a Black Guy. I mean just casual. Nobody yeah so you can see her. Just trying to deal with all of this shit. Everyone's just going crazy and she's trying to hold everything together. Yes she's a strong woman. I don't know how she has managed to not lose her mind meeting married to billy they get a divorce. She's still trying to maintain a civil conversation with him to dinner. Like come to my house. Sit with our kids. Let's all try to make amends because you need to be in their family their life like we're all wondering. Lambley and bill is like yeah. Okay okay total. Yeah and then what happens? Billy does it show up. He just straight up doesn't show up and then what was even crazier was that whenever she confronts him about not showing up to the dinner. What's his reason? Oh I went out on Friday and didn't come back till Sunday. I'm sorry what where were you? What were you doing whose house re saying it would. How do you stay out for that? I was just so confused by that statement and she just breeze right past. It and didn't even like ask any questions I think because she's probably heard all of these excuses. She probably had a list that she could pick from was going to say to her and she's like I'm just done on this. You know like he says in one of his interviews. I believe that I'm a product of wearing environment and yeah. My father was a product of his environment. But I never imagined this from kids. Are you kidding me? You think that cycle was gonNA continue. Even shocked just tried so hard. You know. It's just it's still there. You're putting it in front of these kids or they think that their dad is untouchable. And I'm sure you know like outsiders this way of Oh my gosh they have all this confidence and nobody messes with them. Hiding those kids feel like I can do whatever I want. Nobody's going to touch me exactly. Yeah and then you know we see Joey or Joseph whatever I keep calling him. Joey like where? Bff's but to call him. Joey Joey my friend Joey goes to dinner with billy. And it's funny. Because Billy is trying to ask about Taylor and how Taylor is just like not interested in having a relationship with him and he's like well you know she just sees me as like the disciplinarian seem that way next sentence. He's like laying into Joey about like you. Keep doing this and you need to be better needed to. I'm like okay. Do you WANNA be disciplinarian or not. It was just like back worth a little bit. You know and it just Jenner. You could see it in. Joey's is of. I'm not buying anything you're say and I wanna be just like you because I I think when you go to jail you go to prison in the mafia it almost gives you more clout like look what I did for this organization. I went in and served my time to protect all of you. Yeah so he's probably thinking like I'm just trying to earn my stripes. Billy's not being the best example of like. Hey Look No. It really did. Screw me over. Don't do it yeah. He's like nothing positive ever came out of anything I did like. I was stabbed fourteen times. I'm like WHOA. Whoa oh that was insane house. He'll love I don't know I don't know what the back story is behind that. But he's really trying. I mean he's really really trying to plead with him to like not take the same path that he did. Yeah I think he's just GonNa have to be more consistent. Show up more. We get a preview of Taylor kind of going off on her dad. So I'm sure there's more to come there like what you say to him. I mean I don't know that I would want her to tell me how she felt about me if I was him like she's she's Jerry intense for sure. She got her toughness from her. Momma did are moving onto the lot. Occas Laroque. `As. I don't know if I'm saying that right so guys I like. That's right and we meet Gina. Gina personality she is. She is just so bubbly. You can tell her. Energy just takes up a whole room when she walks in. I love it a lot handle. She's like I'm an outside mom. I'm like the hot Mama. Supermom like she just describes all of these different types of mom that she is. I like Hark wow and then cut to her China's for here with surgery I will bust you in the positive mom park mom and she does get sprayed in the head with all up in her hair. I'm like you can't tell a kid that. Because that's the first thing they're gonNA do and she has two young ones And then we meet C. P. Who has her firstborn? Yes he comes up and we get a little bit of background. Abou- him and what he's been going through with his legal struggles and kind of just his childhood so he just got through with a trial where he almost was sentenced to jail for twenty five years or you so shocked when he when he started talking about this. He's like Oh you know just wrapped up my case. It was no big deal very yeah talking about it and then drops a bomb of A. What all his charges work. It was a lie in my mouth. Dropped attempted murder. Oh my God I mean. Maybe he's acting that way because he's passed it like because it's behind him like we had talked to him about it before it probably would have been a different sentiment Or He's just very like it is what it is about so basically he was at a House party with a lot of other guys. There was a lot of teenagers there and somebody ended up with. Somebody ended up being stabbed and his friends. Were around. Where the ones who? I don't know like got the charges for it. But we don't really know anything else he'd he'd ever says like what how the Guy Got Stabbed. Who stabbed him? What's the real story? We didn't get that. Yeah it was just. I was my mouth dropped. Yeah I was shocked because he he comes across young too and so you don't think about someone that young being possibly sense to that long of a prison sentence like you would have literally missed like most of his adulthood like he'd be almost retirement age when he got out. Yeah they show us about like a little bit of backstory with his lawyer at his lawyer. Basically says the only reason you got this is because you were underage at the time. Yeah that's crazy. What he was seventeen. When the thing so yeah. It's like one year if even that you know like literally months days saved your life. That's crazy I just hope he realizes that like and take that to heart so we kind of learn that he you know. It's obvious that he doesn't live there with his mom. So Gina was also in prison young and she says that she sold drugs to people who were allegedly in the mafia allegedly and she uses air quotes when she says allegedly shop for what it is worth. I'm definitely not playing a drinking game every time they say allegedly in the show because I would be wasted. I want you now. But that must be the loophole. You're like okay there. You can talk about everything in your case as long as you say allegedly or you don't really confirm things that you haven't been convicted of yet. Bright that makes sense. Yeah we're not so. We find out that when she went to prison. Obviously she was not able to care for her child while she was in prison so she would child was given over to his father and the father was not able to take care of him either because he was also in his own legal battles and struggles and so. Cps ended up living with an aunt and uncle young ankle anthony. Yes he's been living with them for most of his childhood so interesting dynamic to say the least yeah and the we get to meet them and they seem like they really care about him love him. Oh Yeah Krish does not want him to leave because genus has like you to get all sat and island following you and then Trish Light. It doesn't matter where he goes. It's going to follow him right. It's like if he doesn't change his mindset. Then I mean it's not gonNA change like it's not gonna be a better just because he moved somewhere right which I mean. I don't know I see both sides of that story. Yeah and I mean I think that's true though like your mindset. Whether it's about this topic or anything else you have to change your mindset and moving to physical new location isn't GonNa do what you think will do right so talking about rikers. So at this point I had to look it up. Yeah and so for our listeners. Who Do not know at rikers is requires is a prison. It's rikers island. And this is where the worst of the worst go to park. Was there the guy who excuse me shot? John Lennon was there and I read like a quick article on BBC in the Guy who interviewed. Were saying you never truly leave rikers. Because it's always in you and he's like the first few days he was there. He saw multiple teenagers hang themselves. Oh my gosh. It's just a very disturbing place to be. They're trying to close it to. It's supposed to be close by twenty twenty six and then they're going to rebuild like four different presence on the island. That's crazy I. Yeah so Gina says that she spent I think she said three years at rikers. Now I think it was like nine months rikers but I think her sentence was I think she spent three years total in jail. Okay yeah so I mean it sounds like just one week. There would be life changing. So that's crazy. Yeah so I mean basically aunt Trish Gina are obviously on different sides of where? Cpi should be what he should be doing. Should he be saying that now island should he move in with his mom and he's kind of torn to like when you when he asked his opinion on it he's like? I don't know like I'm considering it you know I don't know I WANNA say in. Staten Island yeah nutritious. Like I'm GonNa go talk to Gina. I was geared conversation. I was this episode one. Where are we getting into? What is going to happen in this discussion? Oh my gosh and then it was just so it was pretty simple. I mean like woman to woman. They seem really respect each other and respect each other's opinions and they both know that they're coming from a place of loving and caring about EP. And so that was really. You know to see that. It wasn't some like yelling screaming ridiculous. They were just like having an adult conversation about right. Yeah I agree. I was really pleasantly surprised by that. Yeah I mean. I wouldn't say really reached any kind of conclusion. I think they both ended are still on their own sides of it but it was. I mean it was a good discussion at least so that it's not like the running around talking shit about each other behind their backs like they're going to have full discussion about it and it looks like the previews that Christian Christian senior CPA's Dad Or released and then C. P. wants to live with him. Oh Interesting so oh baby. Neither of the Women Win. That's not good for either of that. We're going to fight over me like I'll just go live somewhere else. Right was Kinda thinking too. 'cause he's like what twenty nine he could probably get his own place he 'cause that's crazy. Well he may just have a well depending on his case. I don't know if he could get a job away at the job. He would be able to get based off his charges. That's true so that just depends and it also showed us in the preview for like the whole season That gene is trying to get her case expunged. Yes I saw that too. I mean it sounded like the initial reaction of the lawyer was like yeah right but I don't want to get your hopes up made me. I'll take your money if we can see what happens. Yeah exactly Yeah so that was the episode. I mean we went through it pretty quickly it was more of an introductory episodes. So we'll kind of see. As the show progresses what storylines come about. We obviously don't own any spoilers or anything which is fine and will just kind of get to see how it all plays out and we follow them on social media. Now so we'll keep you updated with anything crazy on their You'll start to see some articles from us on spill sister. Podcast DOT COM. Our next article will kind of do a breakdown of the caste and let you know like what their social media is a little bit more about them all that good stuff. Yeah I want to look up to see if any of them are in jail. But I don't like I don't want to know you. I just WANNA watch the donkey. Yeah we can't get to end up with our research because we just want to let it play out as well because I mean it was two years ago. It's like we're watching. Love is blind again. I twenty eighteen right so crazy. All right guys. We'll thanks for listening and make sure you catch our challenge. Podcast if you aren't already a listener of the Challenger or Orlov is blind. If you watch low after lockup we cover all kinds of shows and especially during quarantine. What better thing is there to do than listen to podcasts yet and I did see some crazy love after a walkup news so I don't know if you've talked about that really quickly. Yeah let's do a quick reality check segment. This is where time to time. We have other cool updates that we wanna do about various reality shows and we're not currently covering them. We will discuss it here. So what is going on? What's The t cysts? Well Tracy is back in the casinos. Great I know I know I can just like feel the arrest coming. I can feel it coming. Oh yeah she would live the other night that saw part of that she is now selling. Avon and I mean she doesn't some skincare so cute no sir. I don't know if she was supposed to say this is what she said that her client are not together anymore which is kind of obvious but they will not be back for life after lockup and neither will any of the previous cast. Ooh Can we get a round of applause for that we? We're ready for a fresh cast. I mean nothing against like we had our fun times with the previous cast but like so so exciting to meet New People. Yeah so I guess. Whoever will be on love after lockup this season will carry over to life after lockup she was like they were just like sick. Ac- and as so we won't be back and either it'll be all new cast all faces. I was like okay. I'll use not salty at all. I don't know if you were supposed to tell us that. And a self published a book on Amazon And so I I did read on Reddit. Download it for free on the kindle if you have nothing else to do during this time. I'M NOT THAT BOARD. No either to apparently. It's a trilogy okay. I'm sorry I know I feel like people need to know that going into it because I read it and thought this was it anyway. Dammit after the other two books Roy. Yeah that's information in the trilogy and apparently it's not horrible okay. People were like it was actually a pretty easy like decent read. I mean and I don't think like I'm not saying like I think she would be a bad writer. Thinks she's a smart girl I just am not interested in like frying more about all the things that we've talked about with her for years on this show. I think we've seen enough of their story and like I'm ready for them to move on and I'm ready to move on. Yeah I know. Say Toady Selig sexy though is lacey so you can kind of choose who you want to buy some see from what is all get in on the? Avon sense like they get in on all of it. So Kenny Avon was still around. I did I mean new out of it but I figured in like the older demographic of ladies was using it. I don't know the last thing I don't think about a shirt other people did how is Marcelino making money right now because all of Asia shutdown? Ooh I bet he I mean he has to be filing for unemployment. That's a good point though that we can file for unemployment. Yeah if you player I think so. I'm sure he has to file W. twos regardless. I really really hope to okay. Well supposed to and what you actually do are two different things like you know they have to because if he goes to a casino then yes they give it to you but he's going and playing house parties. You could get cash so this is a perfect segue into Mali. Game the movie. Uh Oh my Gosh Okay. You need to watch it and all of our listeners. Amazon you homework. It is such a good movie. It's about this. She was an Olympic ice. Herb sorry is get an Olympic skier and she hurt herself and ended up running the biggest like most successful high dollar poker tables or whatever like in the whole world like all on her own in. Its all a true story and the whole time watching I was just thinking of Marcellina and I'm like Oh my God like I just cannot picture him in this setting so anyways you just have to watch. It's very interesting. He's like a bad ass. Tam Okay I'm GonNa Watch it. Yup but that is that's so true. How's he making money? I mean it wasn't making any before appear as though I guess it's just more of the same. I wonder if he got a job at a grocery store so that he could money for the family. I also one quick thing on Tracey's live. She also said that her in Clint are not married anymore. Or sorry are married still like you said they're not together but they are married still and that he's like off with someone else and she seemed very much like she was still into him and like she missed him and wanted to be with him. I don't know if that was just like a show or if that was true. Well ladies if you haven't thank clint rush to your phone right now and go to twitter because you can have the honor of seeing him shirt. Oh No oh yes. Oh yes I accidentally saw this. I'm deleting that I couldn't take him worry because people have posted to instagram. That's how I saw it. I'm throwing my phone away. I mean burning the phone. He was like sweaty. It was just oh it just reminded me of like Sweaty Tortilla and I saw. It was bad man. Okay well On that note. Do we have any other reality? Tv GOSSIP. Nope that's it. All right fun stuff. Thanks for listening guys and we will catch a next week by guys.

Mafia Staten Island Taylor Joey Sammy Bee Karen Gra Trish Gina Arizona New York billy O'Toole Mtv US Kenny Avon Leah Amazon Lake Buji Bravo Bravo Victoria Granados Deb
10: Joe Valachi (Part 2)

Mafia

31:29 min | 8 months ago

10: Joe Valachi (Part 2)

"Previously on Mafia genovese soldier Jove LACI. had been in the mob all his life but had never risen in rings. Within the Mafia organizational structure. There are family Boston's dead beneath them. There are funder bosses. Despite the fact that in the nineteen fifties LACI had been in the Mafia for over twenty years. He was still just a button male will. He had risen very far but when his prison sentence rose from fifteen years to life he decided to make an offer and the FBI FBI couldn't refuse. Suddenly here comes this serendipitous wound for bid marched. Who can tell of at least what it's like to be in the trenches with a mob high? He becoming more feels he knew about all these things. It was the first time anyone could pull back the curtain. This is Mafia in October. Nineteen sixty three jove. Lachey was getting ready to appear as a star witness for hearings against the Mafia. He would be giving having first hand accounts of life as a Mafia hitman. The hearings were broadcast across the country and became a national event Ronald Gould stock is a former. FBI Agent Oh. I think absolutely it was important for the country. First of all you know here. He was on television Pointing to charts giving the names of people and ended allowed. People in the United States is a new country. We don't have mythology the way a older countries had we cowboys and Indians and we had racketeers and and so this was away for people within the country to look at all those movies that they had seen before about the on the world and articles they had seen in the newspapers about Luciano now and and put it all together and I think the public was fascinated by it. Meanwhile the Mafia oppose watched with dread as the LACI reveal their secrets to the world. Nations underworld the unwelcome spotlight. The publicity as the Senate investigation subcommittee begins new hearings on cry. Arkansas senator. John McLaughlin is at the helm attorney. General Robert Bird Kennedy Paints a grim picture on the rise of lawlessness of Cosa Nostra or Mafia. This he describes as the government of organized gambling narcotics extortion Darshana and controlling a certain trade unions. They says the income run into the billions debt is like getting involved with the MOM. Mom Getting in is easy. Getting out is hard just like borrowing from your local done the interest just piles up and the whole gets deeper and deeper and if you have bad credit you might have no choice but to skirt around the legal ways or maybe used to you. Now you don't have to. Because there's upstart dot com upstart as a revolutionary lending platform. That knows you're more than your credit score for the offer. SMART interest rates to help you pay off high interest credit card debt without going further into the red. Need to get ahead of those bills. You don't need to meet someone in a dark alley you need to go to upstart upstart looks at your education and job history and it reward would you. With a smarter interest rate. They may get fast simple and easy to check your rate in just minutes and there's no waiting around like a traditional loan. Most people get their loans day after. It's approved upstart really believes in you over. Three hundred thousand people have used up. Start to to pay off credit cards or meet financial goals. Seaway upstart is ranked number one in their category with over three hundred businesses on trust pilot. HURRY TO UPSTART DOT com forward slash mafia to find out. How low your upstart rate is checking? Your rate only takes a few minutes and it won't affect your credit credit that's upstart dot com forward slash mafia in the hearings known as has the Laci your McClellan hearings attorney general. Robert Kennedy took the hill. He had been the one to recognize the LACI as an asset and BILACCI soon in true to his worth all gentlemen. Is You know we've brought to Queens County this morning. The witness Jove Lachey determined. Expose every facet of his testimony into pursue this thing as far as we possibly. Can I just be worried at all. I wouldn't say he was worried. I think the man is naturally under all circumstances nervous and a bit upset beyond on. That is a good witness. What the LACI revealed was the structure of the mob? The fact that it was closing Oestra the fact that it was different than the Mafia the fact that there were families and families existed in various places around the country certainly didn't know all of them in fact when he was was asked by the senator from Nebraska whether or not there was organized crime in Omaha and sort of leaned over talk to his lawyer and everybody in Omaha just what. What does he know when he was just asking what Omaha was where it wants? But despite his gaps in knowledge the LACI spelled out details that only real real mafioso would know as the hearings got underway. He was asked why he murdered another inmate in Atlanta prison. Why did you decide to kill him at that time at that spot because he was the guy I spotted at the time in other words I felt that was my last day? Clean English senator. I felt that was my last day. You thought it would be your last day that I would be alive. Well did you feel. You could get them before they could get you. I don't know what I would have done if if I don't see him see. I can't what I would have done. In other words. You felt help listened surrounded and you decided to strike. When could when I saw you thought if you killed this man who you thought was going to kill you anyway? I got some satisfaction senator. Put it that way. You got some satisfaction. The audience sympathized with the LACI to appoint despite all the fervor surrounding the public event. The Latinos testimony was often a stark reminder that he was a cold blooded killer but the public watched hungrily as the LACI began to reveal the secrets of the Mafia. What is the name of it? noche drying Italian Cosa Nostra in Italian. I would think in our family our thing and our family in English fulmer NYPD. Detective Joe Coffee. The one thing that Jove lachey revealed law enforcement and to the people in charge of this country was the structure of the Mafia the history of the Mafia. You had a vast knowledge and he was the one who exposed at all the families. The names of people the level levels of Authorities Donnie with the comedy to be copied three on the boards to the to the campus down to the soldiers and to the acquaintance right there are acquaintances. Who couldn't be made because there were Mataya? They have a lot of associates who were Jewish Irish and whatever they are agreeing will will mobsters. They can't be members out of that so he gave us the whole structure. The LACI continued revealing to to the Senate committee the Mafia's blood and fire initiation ceremony in the ceremony. The LACI was forced to vow that he would live by the gun and by the knife Understanding of what that meant at the time yes I did. It meant that you was what well I expect to die by the gun by the night so in other words when you cook that Oh expected someday to die either by the gun or by the night right. That's what you're dedicating yourself to write. The latching also spoke about a strange initiatied ritual where he was told to make a cup with his hands. Paper was placed inside and set alight. It was told that he would burn the paper if he betrayed the secrets of the Cosa Nostra. The LACI was under no illusions after the initiation shen ritual he was to truly be part of this family and there was no way out all right then what happened and they all shake shake hands. Everybody gets up and shake hands and safety words together which I can't recall the also said silly. They know what they meant. I never ever thought that to find out what it meant. Having idea. When event will you had an idea? What was your idea? Poll tied up. We're all we're all together. We're all all of a sudden everything that they had been saying that there was no national organization That crime was essentially local. It was a film local law enforcement to deal with Became obviously incorrect You had people from around. The country identified put before a grand jury gate different stories of why they were there. Were prosecuted for conspiracy to engage in obstruction and That was it for the F. B. I.. I mean there was a moment where it was absolutely patently clear that they had a role to do they had not performing. That was it. Valencia's revelations also explained why this secret organization had managed to remain hidden for so long young anyone who squealed would pay the ultimate price. There were also rules like Omerta silence. not testifying testifying against anybody else. Obviously you have secret society. You can't test. We can't mention the existence of the MOM. Fear had preserved the silence for thirty a years and the LACI had broken that silence forever. Yes and then. Okay say something senator. Yes I what I'm telling you now. I need to go no further than to say nothing this year. When I'm telling you what am I exposing to you in the press and everybody this is my do in a promise on breaking? Never talk about this and I'm doing. The LACI named the present leaders of the five New York families Rideau Genovese as a Carlo. Gambino Ju- sippy Mug Lilko Joseph Bonanno and Gaetano Lucchese the Laci then revealed the names of over one hundred hundred thirty members of the Genovese crime family and other New York families five large charts set behind the LACI each one detailing which mobster was connected to each family. The charts explained how each boss could have up to five hundred. Soldiers is you've been able to identify in the five families you've marked with stars on these charts that are not on the charts you know them by aliases and you didn't know their other name. Fright the LACI even used his testimony to get back Genovese he told senators the mob boss controlled not just the Genovese family Lucchessi families. I think he might at this time. Grant us just for a moment to tell how much power how much authority the boss flaked Innova say has over the family over the soldier members. Like you senator. I happen to know vetoes Powell. He not only has the power and AL family. Emily you're still controlled power and again beano family and defense in other words becomes law. Ri- right. Did he pass out that. Well he passes them out and then they tell you well he was he was. Did they tell you anything they wanted to tell you. He passes Sanal right but the mob would not sit idly by as their secrets were revealed on National Channel Television But lachey direct boss Vito Genovese had placed a one hundred thousand dollar bounty on velocities head Selwyn. Ram Author of five families. The mob of course was horrified. The leaders were horrified by what he what he was going to do. And by his testimony they knew before evening testified that is going on the witness stand. The FBI was leaking stories. The Justice Department. We're trying to turn them into an instant sensation. They pull out a contractor and in the past they have been able to reach people in prison and kill them and they thought similarly if they offered enough money a couple of hundred thousand dollars somebody it would be willing to try to bump more now. There were real fears of a direct attack on the Senate hearings. A bomb had been placed in the courtroom the morning of illogic Lachey testimony and there had also been men caught trying to enter the courtroom with guns apparently to assassinate the laci about this threat shampoo. Tim Well over the weekend received permission from the FBI that their information with the effect that a bomb had been placed in the room this morning and also that there might be one or to one of several persons guns who attempt to assassinate the witness. There's supposedly report that someone is trying to shoot you or put a bombing here or something. Where did you get that? I don't know anything about that. How do you feel about it? I'm in the same position from the beginning. I'm hot the beginning. You understand what I mean. Don't make any support for Mafia comes from manscaping. Take a cue from the Sheriff Dressing Card sharps and slick gamblers. There's you gotta keep yourself groomed and that means the hair on your head on your face and below the belt but you don't want the use the same razor on all of them. That's just gross not to mention dangerous. Your family jewels need a specialized tool ooh for sensitive skin. That's where man's caped comes in. Give yourself the gift of good grooming. This holiday season with the man's gaped perfect package package. Two Point Oh manscaping. His Revolutionary Company that has redesigned the electric trimmer. Their lawnmower to porno has proprietary advanced skins. Save technology so it won't snag out plus it's waterproof so you can use it in the shower the lawn mower two point Roy is included in the perfect package. It also includes the crop reserved anti chafing deodorant for the actual smell. Easiest part of your body. It'll leave you smelling nice and keep from sweating and sticking adjusting yourself in your three piece suit now. That is not classy. The perfect package also comes with a pair of manscaping boxer. Briefs that'll keep you feeling fresh all day. These are high performance and anti chafing. It's an upgrade from the old used. Holy pair Tis the season to manscaping. So get yourself. You're dead your friend. The Best Gift of all the man's gaped perfect package to boy. No get twenty percent off and free shipping with the Code Mafia at MANSCAPING DOT COM on. That's man's Dot Com Code Mafia for twenty percent off and free shipping. Keep yourself groomed everywhere and make accent a proud. That's MANSCAPING DOT com and use code Mafia. They will achieve testimony was a gold mine. He confirmed many things at the FBI. Be I already had an idea of but never in such detail above all the Latinos testimony gave the FBI a change in their priorities ace the FBI office in New York increased the number of organized crime agents from four to one hundred forty former assistant director at the FBI. Steve pomerantz so I remember as a young agent is young organized. Crime Agent Early Nineteen Seventies. We did all just all over the country. We wiretaps of the of the interstate. Gambling operations that flourished and what controlled by the Mafia all across the country and we made thousands of arrests and broke up hundreds of large gambling. Combines an effort to choke off the flow One of their great sources of money from doing that we learned again. We began to learn the structure. We began to see how to develop informants in the mafia view thanks to the LACI revelations the FBI's campaign against the Mafia progress to a new level critically for Attorney General Robert Kennedy. It was just the beginning. The only problem was a month after The latches testimony John Kennedy was assassinated in November of nineteen. Sixty three. And Bobby Kennedy. Left as attorney general and impetus went out again. The attorney general relegated the Mafia again backwater problem. Nothing really essential and hoover was able once again to say whatever you have to call the shots and he investigated. They wanted to investigate and he was still reluctant to go all out. Despite the setback to new laws were passed that allowed the FBI to start to crackdown on organized crime I they implemented the Rico Act. The new law allowed prosecutions and civil penalties for ongoing racketeering activity. They didn't have to catch someone in the act to link them to the Mafia Rico Rico Statute was enacted by Congress in the early Seventies. It stands dance for Racketeering Influence Corrupt Organization it's a statute in title eighteen of the US code. And the reason for that thing being put together by Ron Goals thanking Bob Blakey was to have a weapon to use against organized crime in this country and very effective it was enacted in the early Seventies. But really wasn't you too late seventies and Rico statute that gave us the ability not only to arrest people and lock them up But to take out the the real okay. Guts of the operation to to take the ill-gotten gains away from him to dismantle businesses and and the organizations that they had built up before that by by arresting a Mafia leader what we essentially create upward mobility for the person behind them second. Electric surveillance quickly became a useful tool the feds were now legally allowed to use wire tapping and present that as evidence in court all of a sudden the FBI with its Wiretap Wiretap Authority And with its informants and the Rico Statute started moving heavily into this area they give information about where to place the taps and bugs you start using the electronic surveillance authority effectively. You get more and more information which allows to Rico prosecutions which which allows for harsher sentencing. Which means more informants which means more information which means more recall prosecutions and so this the movement starts power of Wis Jove Lachey was returned to the relative comfort of the District of Columbia jail in Washington but Kennedy believed the LACI had more to offer the question Western after testified? What does the Justice Department do? It came back to Atlanta. You have to treat them but Bobby Kennedy. I realized that there was a gold mine so what he did was said. Why don't you write a memoir everything you can remember the FBI always claims or justice? Roy Screens that whoever switches switches side has pregnant Maury remembers all little details. Okay so vlad. She sits down rights over a thousand pages in a handwriting about what his life was his memoir his life story and everything remembers about the Mafia over thirteen months the LACI painstakingly painstakingly produced more than three hundred thousand words on note pans from his cell in Washington but vollage memoir was no literary masterpiece unprintable. It's unpublishable unreadable probably so the FBI. Eventually the Justice Department got a writer writer. Peter Mass to sit down use the memoir also discussed Cheese life with him and put out a book. That was readable readable. The Justice Department hope to the memoir would encourage other informers to come forward but the book would not see the light of day for a while. Lyle longer an Italian American newspaper Il Progresso complain. That velocities book unfairly linked the Italian American community with with the Mafia ill. Progress campaign was successful but the testimony had a lasting impact although the LACI was the first one to speak out out he wasn't the last one. The break of Omerta encouraged others to do the same had the lottery for the first time testifying and then now this has been thirty years before anybody within the mob testified and LACI was looked at as a rat in the stolen somebody undeserving of respect but short within ten years after that you had the second person and then started getting Joe Banana one of the heads of the original families. Emily's writing a book. You had Jimmy Friday Yano writing a book calling himself the last mafioso everybody else's undeserving of respect. When when he writes a book about it is the one is Should be a member of the honored society. The name of those book. Then you get more more people cooperating. Meanwhile Kennedy started making plans to reward the LACI for his cooperation. Bobby Kennedy. He had some wild scheme that maybe it could find a girlfriend or bring Vlach wife and put him on some desert island where you could live out the rest of his life that was impossible possible and he still had a sentence for murdering a fellow convict the wrong man. In Atlanta overnight everything changed for Vlach E he was placed back into the federal prison system where he was to spend the rest of his sentence. In solitary confinement. Blotchy had a rough time even under The ages of being privileged prisoner There was a streak of mental problems at his family and any Friday commit suicide shortly after testified by hanging himself. The Justice Department soon realized that they had to take better care of their prize witness USC so what they did was. They took him out of the unpleasant northern prisons they sent them to what they considered the best place for him. He had a lot of ver- arthritis and other problems. A warmer climate place call tuna near the Mexican border and in Texas and they even provided any sort of attributive system of air conditioning for water cooling for them and they gave him a sweet where he had a Kitchen and you had better more comfortable bad. They try to make life as convenient as convenient and comfortable as possible. And one of his legacies was never the Justice Department now gets a real real top notch defector they send them to what is called develop cheese tweet in Texas prison so at least he has some in some comfort that it wouldn't get any other prisons that the FBI consented to the Laci hearings became a success story and how much it helped the the FBI take on the mafia but many years later they are still a lot of questions raised about how genuine the testimony was Jovan Laci. It was a low level. Doug and he commanded. He's the one who started the whole thing with the charts and the names and all that stuff but it was dumber start this Guy Comey was the Laci was known as a man who has not especially bright. There is speculation that the F. B. I. Gave Him a lot of coaching and even told him I'm what to say. I think that The LACI was coach to submit it to FBI correction in his testimony. The federal narcotics agents that I know have led me to believe that through their. You know what they have told me about The importance and the effect of Lachey testimony. Now did they feed him names. I think the answer is probably yes but not in the sense of saying okay here. Are these names you say. They belong to so and so oh frequently people in the mob and in other areas of criminal activity. No others by nicknames they know the faces But they don't know their actual name so to the extent that we now had law enforcement had their actual names. He probably learned that for the first time five years after he had given away the mafia secrets to the world the memoir was released and the LACI. I finally got to read the book. Based on his life it was called the velocity papers and it became a bestseller the LACI never received the penny from it. He died of a heart attack in nineteen seventy one at La Tuna Federal Correctional Institution in Texas. He outlived tis Mafia boss of meter. Genovese say by two years but the media attention to the memoir and the hearings put a spotlight on the murky world of the American mafia and it would never be the same again so there's no no question. He was the first really important cock in bringing being down and destroying or at least wounding mafia in America without him. It might take another fifteen twenty years. Because there weren't any defectors and he was the I am at that time the only defector even though he was low ranking he's still new enough to sensationalize his story and to get the public really if not only briefly alerted and warned about the threat of the Mafia. What's happening with the mob? The mob is essentially unrecognizable. I mean when I started in Racks Bureau Manhattan. DA's office in nineteen sixty fifty nine It was extraordinarily even think about getting a mob figure much less somebody in the hierarchy of the mom in the next episode Joe Colombo mafia history by becoming the youngest boss and having the family renamed named after him. And if you're a capital and you're in charge of Construction everybody had to kick money to you. You would shut down the up. If you were. In charge of gambling and loansharking they all got a percentage of how much money you had out there on the street with his new power Colombo decided to break a cardinal rule and wage a war with the F. B. I think he felt that if the timing were white and he could get Italians Americans on their side and pressure can be put on the FBI because it was to some extent they political institution at the time on He could stop them from moving ahead and he took a shot and for a while. It looked like it was brilliant He might might have succeeded And then of course it was a total abject failure but instead of guns the Lombo went to more civil route and became known as the Mafia activist so he began picketing FBI headquarters which was then on the upper east side and he decided to proclaim himself a civil rights leader. Because that was fashionable at the time so Colombo with the remnants of the old PROCACCI family organized a giant civil rights demonstration. Here in New York that was very successful. The crowds Up to Columbus Circle. This has been an audio boom and world media rights co-production doc hosted by me fleet cooper. It is produced by audio booms. Rachel Jacobs Blair Peyton Casey Georgie and Karen Bevan and Paschal Hughes News for World Media Rights. We had additional production help from world meteorites by Gerald's Bingguo and James Tindale. David mcnabb is the series creative eight of director and the executive producers. audio boom are Brendan Regan and Steward last. voiceovers by Spike Siegel Layer. Peyton Eric. Heison Thomas Mancusi uh-huh e thanks to upstart and Manscaping for sponsoring this episode. Follow Mafia on spotify or subscribe on Apple podcasts. Stitcher stitcher or wherever you find your favourite show. We'll be taking a break from the new year but we'll be back in twenty twenty with more of Mafia the

Mafia FBI Jove Lachey Robert Kennedy Jovan Laci attorney senator Justice Department Senate New York Atlanta Rideau Genovese Cosa Nostra United States Boston Jove LACI. Arkansas manscaping Robert Bird Kennedy Omerta
MTV Families of the Mafia Part IV

Spill it, Sister! Reality TV recaps with Ally

59:35 min | 3 months ago

MTV Families of the Mafia Part IV

"Hey I'm Leah and I'm Ali and we're sisters who watched trash TV together in this. Is Bill Concerns Pel? Loh everyone welcome back to your podcast. You are here with Leah and Ali. And today we're talking about families of the mafia part four heart four were over halfway through this little docu series and wow this episode was quite the emotional roller coaster a half to say yes. I agree. I texted Leah and told her day I had tears. Is this episode. Got Me Yeah for me. I texted you and was like this episode. Had Me like and I did the Emoji with the really big is that with me. The whole time is so huge. When you said that I thought okay they must go out and party. Something else must happen. Lakes. Maybe somebody gets into a fight. I thought you meant against like the group you know like that was going to go but watching it. I was like that is not what she meant. I'll tell you my big moments but yeah no. That's not what I meant and it was. There was like sad parts there. S Funny Parts there. It was just crazy like I would not an expect myself to be so invested in these people's lives after four episodes. Well now I feel as if I had a sneak peek or like you know behind the scenes connection. Because I read Karen's book mob daughter which will talk about at the end of the episode But like as I watched her do you and say certain things and the same with Karina. I was tying it back to the book. Yeah Gosh this is so crazy. And as she wrote the book in I think two thousand twelve off to look it up to be sure but I mean she was only the second season of mob wives whenever she wrote the book and they weren't living back in New York yet lake shore back and forth from Arizona to New York and so it just all of this really like brings it to life. Ooh Okay Yeah. So we're going to talk about your recap of the book at the end of the episode. But I you know as we go through if there's anything that's relevant like any interesting little tidbits that apply to the episode. Let us know yes. I will tied him for you. Guys yes so thanks for doing that. Investigative work alleys great at that stuff. So we appreciate you. It was so fun and now I have Sammy's book Therese Sammy the bull's I know it's going to be a little bit darker than Cairns. I'm sure we all have that for us to talk about at the end of episode six perpet- All right. Well let's start off with the GROVONNI. Does we have Carina. And her boyfriend Paulie on a date and always really of polly so far. Is it them by two Karen Carina? When they were to go to Arizona we saw and Joe get into a little tiff which is kind of spiraled everything L. and ended up with Joe. Getting arrested and we were so confused because we were like what is going on. Like what is there between Paulie and Joe? So that's always Nepali. So far yet. It looks like a big moment. Just like they were messing around. Yeah it seems like Paul a little bit of a shift. Stir Yeah it looks like. He has anger issues and key in. It's it seems like they're in a very unhealthy. Relationship is it's a toxic relationship when their carina says like my friends say we fight all the time. It's like not acute fight. Okay one. What is cute fighting? I'm not aware of that is into what fighting about your twenty two twenty early twenties. You don't live together. You don't have bills together. You don't have kids together. You're going to have a dog together. So what are you fighting about? I have no idea I have no idea it but it seems like it could be any little thing with this guy and it just like sends him flying off the handle so she's really excited because she's going to be in a fashion show. She's worked really hard to like build up her brand online and really wants to be a model so she's excited that she's going to be in this. Fashion Show Super Cool Fund may so then we get kind of a flashback of their relationship. And I don't know if this is from an island made it's not an island. But basically like we see a breakthrough her windshield that she thought lead from him not a small bread like when she's sat add a brick through my windshield. One time like asking me on the street. They're gonNA say like poly did. I'm thinking okay like a small brick that you would maybe see like outside you them patio. Hell no this brick was huge. This was a boulder. I would have been pissed. Yeah and you just see him like talking to her all kinds of ways and it's just not good it not going to go so then. She's at the fashion show. And Karen and Ramona are there to support her. They try to go find her and she's like all sat on the stairs. Just like reading all these text messages saying that he is like saying she's being thirsty and she just wants attention and just basically belittling her and making her fell shitty about going after her dreams. Which y you want. What do you want here? Polity what her to not take the stage and like. Oh you're right. I shouldn't do it. I'm sure it comes. I'm sure he has insecurities that like she gets famous. Or if she gets too involved in this modeling stuff or involved in her own life that she'll forget about him and so he's trying to like hold onto her. Yeah and not in a healthy way. And it's like Bro. Do you not know who her family is? Do you really WanNa Talk. Shit to this girl. Why is he messing with her? I do not understand. It appears that he grew up in Staten Island. And from everything that I've read is the Grovonni family very well known and Sammy. The bull was on us. Look up to because he was just such a premier criminal. Yeah like why? Are you messing with Sammy? The Bull's granddaughter? A Don't understand you think he just you think it's because he can't come to New York he's GonNa fuck you up and like you think. Karen's not gonNA come after you. Yeah not smart not smart and so Karen and Ramona do a great job in their own. This is your moment. You're not gonNA let some Guy Ruin it. Let's go get get up. You're going and you're doing this. And she looked so cute. She looked so pretty and not dress and she just like walked the runway and she did amazing she looks like a little Barbie doll she does. She's she's so cute. Apparently I'm just so proud of her doing this because I thought she was going to have social issues growing up. Thanks a lot with the hell opposed to me. She's like you were shy. That was so funny. And then Paulie comes over later on in the episode and like Karen is not letting his essence. I WanNa know what? Sit out here. We'll have a chat right here on the porch and she just like gives it to him. She's like I'm tired of the disrespect not happening anymore. You guys both have a lot of growing up to do and like basically I'm not putting up with your bullshit anymore. Yeah I love that. She pointed out. It's almost like you're obsessed with Corinna like you. Love her with an obsession. And it's not healthy. So it's not like she came out there Momma Baronet of like screw you. You're not good enough for my daughter. You're not gonNA talk to her that way which she would have been just doing gave him realistic examples. Like this is an obsession. You're not mature enough to handle this. You're not mature enough to know how to love her. The Right Way and I think that why she the reason she's like this. Karen's like this is because in her book she talks about a relationship that she had with his guy namely And it was after her father went to prison for his first sentencing and her family moved to Arizona and Karen State New York and she was with Lee and Lee was Kinda like a straight guy but not in the mafia he was more into like robbing banks. Oh and Their relationship was very toxic and over the years it would get very very volatile and their their fights which escalate and to a point where she would go back to him because it was like I need to be with him because it you know the anger had worn off and they felt like they really loved each other in an end the cycle would start back in every time the cycle would get worse. And so when I listened to her tell polly all of these things. It sounded just like what she was talking to on the book like. She sees that relationship that she had with Lee with Paul and Corinna. And she's like Oh no no no like I fall out of that like you. Don't get involved with that. Oh my gosh. I'm sure that now. Hard as a parent. Because it's like at what point do you feel like you're overstepping by like involving yourself in your and you know her relationship like your heating. Come over to talk to. Karen came over talked like arena. And Karen's like ONA like we. We're going to have a conversation so I mean it's like you WanNa let your kid make their own decisions and being a adult and things like that. But at what point do you intervene? I thought she handled herself really well as a mom and the way she talked to him like she's very loving. It was like she was looking out for both of them. Yeah I don't think she ever stepped any bouncier. Yeah agreed so. Polly comes over a second time. This time he does get talk to Carina and she's like I guess we can go upstairs. I'm like not upstairs all the way up. Here's Oh girl don't do with. No I was like stay downstairs. But they go upstairs. And she's pissed and she she she she calls him out for. I guess at some point. He called her a dog right. Not Hell She's like you love me like you. WanNa marry me and you talk about like how How in love you are. Then the next day you get your dog like you're a psycho a dog like so what are you saying that he's a dog or she's saying that he has called her dog. He has called her. A dog doesn't that mean like he thinks she's ugly dog. I don't know her. That were unaware if you call me a dog and it's done with no. Yeah that's just crazy to me. And he just seems so unstable in this moment even in the middle of this conversation he likes raising his voice and like she's he's just so animated and he's so passionate and I'm like no there's a difference between being like animated and loud and like my husband when he gets excited about something. He literally screams at the top of his lungs. He is so. Wow especially if he's like on the phone. Oh my God. He's so loud. He's getting really excited like especially recently. He just got a New Grille. Sorry guys sidebar. But he just got a new girl and he was like showing. My Dad has new girl yesterday and he was screaming like waking up the whole neighborhood. I was like just take taking down a little bit. I know you're excited. But we're going to like cause a ruckus year. But no so. It's like there's a difference between being allowed animated person like I honestly am to and like being aggressive. Yeah it's almost as if he has anger issues here And he's like a big. There's a point where I pictured you in a wedding dress every day like okay. Cool give a pinterest board. Set up police. I'm not impressed by that. And so then they both kind of talk about how they need to like not be together anymore and he leaves and I'm like did you break up. I know that's how I felt like so. They broke up. They did it break up. It was kind of left open a little bit like definitely not on good terms by. I would hope they're broken up. I really get a little bit more clarification when they go out at the end of the episode but Yeah Very Gray area right now So next we see the aug scenes and we just get a little podcast. -CEPTION here because we're talking about Denise podcasts at Denny for your thoughts adorable and she spells thoughts like t h ot. Oh my gosh. I could not love her more. I know I have not checked out her podcast yet. I hope that it still available on I. It is and you check it out and check out but she she posts on instagram. I just haven't had a chance to listen to it yet. Because we've been recording nonstop. Yeah exactly so. We'll we'll have to go. Listen to after this I will say I was a little bit worried about the setup that they have like there was it was a big space and there was not a lot of like absorption in that room. Like how did they not have echoes? I don't know because if you notice there was a guy in the back on a computer. And then He. They had a huge standing speaker that they had to have. It plugged into a soundboard and shit. Like maybe she was like using someone else's podcasting services rather than buying her own. Maybe no we just want to know about the logistic so she is chatting with Karen and Ramona. And they're just talking about life the fact that they've all dated drug dealers and people in jail. Yup just you know normal things things that we all have in common you know. Ramona gives her some advice. Dating should be like Christmas. Drink be married. But don't be a Ho Ho. Why have I never heard this before but I was I? Did you see the Denny was on live? She went like ended alive last night. Oh I did amount of time. And she had like an Trish on there with her but she and then Ramona was commenting in the comments and at one point she was like. Let's drink and be married but not be a Ho Ho like big ten. He's always killing it with those one liners but now I know the origination of the line is from Ramona. Yes we need got out like on a sign as a decoration during Christmas. Having to make that with my cricket I love it. Yeah we need shirts. We need all of that. So yeah they talk about their dads and really you can just tell that this is such a sore spot for any and Karen destroyed at tells her like. I think you need to find him. I think you need not like it's come from him and get this it done. Get an off chest. Kinda thing And you can see her kind of contemplating Alec. Maybe I should from Ramona aspect. Do you WanNa do that. Do you feel like that's why you're having these issues. Then after this we see denny talks to her mom Lisa and this is the part that Oh guys like Johnny Me. Right in the fields. I the. It's so relatable for me that I just want to hug her. Yeah I know yeah. I don't telling her like I wanNA talk like a what do you think about me contacting sperm donor and Lisa's. Like I mean if you feel like you're strong enough to do it and you feel like it will help you. Then you should do it. Which is good. She's not letting her feelings for her ex husband or whatever he was to her get in the way of her daughter contacting him. Yeah but rightfully so. It's like they kind of discussed they won and try to see where he's at like Kelly like is he. Does he feel bad about what he did. Does he not want to hear from her? Like kind of getting a little bit of context before just like jumping into reaching so they talk about nece- who is her great aunt base. It's basically dad's aunt or sperm. Her sperm donors aunt yes and added the only person that she talks to on that side of the family. Which is just there's so many connections here between Danny and I'm like that's how one aunt that I talked to you by sperm donor side of the family which I also referred to him as an that person is very balanced and so I can ask her and she'll tell me what I should do like she's going to be level headed neutral on both sides And she's and you see. She starts out with a full glass of wine. The end of this conversation. That wine glasses empty. She like she's a tough cookie just like you. She's like toughen it out. She's having this conversation. Nothing saving her and then. Bam like the tears come and I was like Danny. No my heart broke. I know and get it. Because she's like I want to give them the what for. I WanNa talk to him. I WANNA ask him these questions. I want to tell him like. How does it feel that another man raised your child or your children like all things that I said before and I some people? Have you not been in this situation for you? Don't understand like she wants to make him feel the pain that made her feel like she wants like drive. That wound open and then pour salt in. It doesn't hurt yet. Bitch yeah you know. And until she gets to do that and she gets to lash out and let all of those emotions that she's had built up explode all over him then she's going to feel better and that's why you see her cries because she's like going off all her anger all her anger and it's coming out and then that's when the motion of like it sets in and that's why we see her cries because she's like. Shit. This hurts like yeah. I've been angry for so long and now I'm just hurt and I wanted to answer. I know it's just so heartbreaking like I just will never understand how people can't like it's literally your flesh and blood. Like what the Hell? But her mom does a great job in mom has done this too. I'm sure I've like it's not about you like you're saying it has nothing to do with you. It's a him problem. Not a problem like he's the idiot that left amazing children. Yes until I was so proud of Lisa for that. She just such a great job. I hope that we like see what happens here. And that maybe not the conversation but like I just hope that denny updates somehow like if she had a conversation with him. How did that conversation go and like? How does she feel now? It will be like it'll be so healing for her a whether it's just a letter that she writes in ever since or she has to say trump face-to-face yeah. I think a letter that she writes would be good and send it but I think also we get a little preview of her talking to in New Jersey New Jersey. Yeah Yeah Yeah and saying that. She doesn't know where he is. She's like if I knew is like if I knew where he was. I would tell you so. I hear real possibility that nobody knows where he is. And she's really just not able to get a hold of him denny. You need to call me. Cheer this girl say. Hire a private investigator but like same thing. Yeah right yeah. So that's that was really sad and I hope that she's able to get to a positive place from all of this. Yes me to use does. Yes Laura's the says Luaka Yellow Raucous and so yes we have DP back with Ms Weight and I just love her meet you. We need her in our life. She needs I mean I guess. She's kind of like a life coach because she's a probate probation officer. Yeah but she's not taking any shit and like this is well he needs somebody like me have goals and drive towards them and it it was just so it reminded me a lot of like. I in the past worked with a lot of like student athlete and them not being like very driven or like really just thinking like their whole life is sports and like. I don't need to like worry about behaving or like making anything else of myself and say you got them like what do you WanNa do be successful. Make a lot of money and you're like okay. But how what like what do you like? What do you not like in? So she did a really good job of leading him through that and like pushing him to really like you have to have goals for yourself and if you're gonNA make a decision to make something happen you stick with it and if your goal is to make sure your data set up with you know a place to go or money or whatever when he comes out of jail than just stick to it and how sweet was that. He wants to hear of his dad. Like this kid has been writing. Yeah heartbreaking honestly. He has been through so much and all he wants to do is to make sure that his dad has a nice home to come back to when he gets out of prison. And it's like that should not be on him like he's the kid so like he's been raised even though he's gone through so much he's been raised in such a loving environment with family even on his mind not his top priority. Good on contrition Anthony. They're great and he's so adorable like CPS the doorway. Lorber you know like goes and play basketball with Uncle Anthony. And he's like. I think this is what I WANNA do it. All in. He's great like how let's get you set up you can have A. It's so cute. And it's so funny because on the live news on the live with the interest last night and he was like freaking out about his hair. He's like I forgot what he was saying. Like oh look like a frigging Brillo pad or something. He's like he was just like making fun of his hair. And like saying that he looked so ugly and of course denny and in Cairn everyone who was it it was denny and her mom not can. I was Lisa and they were all like you're adorable. Cpt Stop Stop like shut up. He's like no. I looked so good and he was saying his hair. So now I'm like okay. This makes sense like he has a thing about hair and so now. I'm like I get it so I was like. Why is he saying this is here? Looks fine and is. Here's always long curly so I I didn't get it but anyways so yeah so he they go and meet up with Adam who is works at a barbershop or it's his barbershop. I'm not sure I think it's his barbershop and Adam used to do Christians. Cps DAD's hair Yeah and he's like it's a really. It's like a clean way of like using your same network basically but it's like the clean way of doing it and you're off the streets. It's a good your vision. And they're using all this like Barbara. Lingo. I don't even know what they were saying. And they said it also. Aso's like Whoa what happened. Skin taper and this that people get their haircut every week. That's crazy that is crazy but there's good money in it. 'cause they're like oh no you gotta you gotta be looking fresh in the streets true. Yeah in Adam is like yeah. You can come in apprentice for me. And he says he's going to do it. He starts on Tuesday. I hope he does it. I know me too. I really hope so. I think he will. Yeah he seems like that will keep up with it and kind of like drive towards his goal. I do wonder though like throughout all of this. They never mentioned that he has ever actually cut. Someone's hair so I wonder if this is just something that he's like seems like a good thing to do or if he actually like has ever done this before. I don't know we'll see maybe we'll CNN service. I'm like Oh God. This could go really bad so we'll same so then we have the. Oh tools yikes this other the other part that got me. Yeah this is where my like. Jaw was hitting the floor. Yeah so it first of all it's Joe's Court Day and I'm like Joe Screwed. His ASS is about to get locked up two years like something I was. I was ready for it. The whole family goes to the Court Day N. What do you know? He's got nothing he knows. How did this happen? Do they just have that good of a lawyer? This sports needs time being arrested. No probation I get that. It was just criminal mischief so it wasn't like it was crazy of charged. But it's like at what point when you're at fourteen times of being arrested. I'm not saying I want the kids to be arrested. I'm just like I'm shocked. Yeah I don't know my best guesses that they have a really good attorney. I guess so so and I'm just thinking poor. Just she just wants to go back to Florida. She's got all her whole hand shadeed like had her tan go in and now she wants to be Bergen. Staten Island again and her tans going to go away and billy was saying he was up crying all night the night before he was so worried about. Joe Oh my God. And they're like you know one year in rikers is like five years. Yeah I believe it. He's really driving at home. You don't want to go to rikers. You don't WanNa go to rikers. Don't do it. And his lawyer tells him to stop drinking and smoking all together. Which is what we said. We're like this guy should not be drinking. Yeah and I think that that the men and family do not have a high tolerance for liquor I inherently not really spikes are anger but when he said smoking. I'm assuming he was talking about weed right. Yeah like would you be like? Don't smoke cigarettes. I mean it's not good for your health but it's all you people are like. I'm all hopped up on cigarette. Let's go right something crazy. Yeah yes so. Then we have billy and he calls Taylor. He's out walking the dog. And it's just so funny because he's just like chatting it up with the dog the whole time out of work. He's like come on dude. Let's go over here. What are you going to do? You're go to the bathroom. Let's go over here come on. Let's get your dog. I know where you WanNa go and I was like okay. They go into somebody's house and he because he gets on the phone. They stop at a gate and I was like. Is this Taylor's house and they're just to like go pop in and see Taylor like no. They just stopped in front of a random gate. The artistic choices of the camera during the scene was very strange to me like they were all zoomed in on Taylor's face when she has phone and I was like what the fuck is about to happen like if you bought to tell her like something terrible like they just. They made it so dramatic. The way jail this I was like what is an all he does is just say. Hey WanNa go to dinner with your boyfriend and meet him. Okay well maybe it was foreshadowing because it was a very dramatic moment in Taylor's like okay. Hope you're serious this time and we keep getting these little hints from Billy like he says I have birds in the sky like he. He basically nose like he knows about Alec already. Yes and everything comes to him. Hand what is the? What do you hear secondhand? I think he's just saying like any shit that he has in his closet like I already know about it. So don't even try. Yep So then pour Taylor has to go to her boyfriend that she's living with and say hey. Do you WanNa go to dinner with my dad. He's like all your dad hasn't really been around like been a dad to you and she's like okay but you can't say shit like that. You have respectful and working on dinner together and Bite your tongue and our doesn't really us really great it biting his John. He's like no not going to mince words just for him. And he's like he's protective of Taylor which I get together fro. Hurry still heard that though. It's like just play. Pretend whatever like you're not gonNA teach this guy a lesson you know. No you've been with her for fourteen months which is a long time and they're living together but like in billy's is that ain't shit. No and that and billy still. Her Dad like dad trump's boyfriend it always will like and then I'm sitting here thinking why they're having this conversation. What do you know about her dad? Alec what do you know about billy like? He was stabbed fourteen times for the street. Heads to know about Billy's dad or about yeah like do you know all these things he has to because she makes Taylor to the point to say Alex not a street kid which means that. He's never tried to get into any part of the Mafia he's not affiliated with any gangs. He doesn't want to be like that's how they all start out. There called street kids and then they try to slowly get their credit up. So that they'll be a made man and be invited into one of these Elias Setting a street kid Like when they're out there trying to make a name for themselves and he's not so does he really know has she told him. I would hope so. I would think it's similar to like the Girvan is by fame level. Because it's like well maybe I don't know I don't know guys I would think so. But he doesn't seem scared at all when the show up. He's like hi I'm Alec Alec Right with the Sierra Billy's like hi Alex I just love. That reminds me of like this tick Tock. Sorry guys just reminds you this big dog words like it's a clip from new girl that show and like meeting her ex boyfriend's new girlfriend and she just keep saying her name wrong over and over again just to fuck with her and in the girl keeps saying no money and says and it's just really funny like it's just a great way to fuck with someone if you already don't like them any so. I thought that was so shady and perfect to be like. Hi Alex and then he like shakes his hand so hard and like holds it there for so long I was like Oh God this Benigo well yet and he just kept repeatedly shaking his hand. You know it was like it was. The handshake wasn't Indian. A Alec not doing it properly. Is He went fishing this right now. What's happening coming in the right way? Look into the eyes. I'm nervous for you. You'RE GONNA get murdered Brian here. It was so nerve wracking. And then billy just straight up drinking. Jack like needs. Yeah and I mean you can tell the Taylor's already like Oh shit here. We go and billy's like will. You should've called me like as her dad. You should have reached out to me like you don't think you should have done that. And he's like no like. I don't think I should have done that like what it was. It was so tense. And then he's like. I'm an old school motherfucker and I N he's like I'm a bad guy and I was like. Oh God here we go and Alec Thirty Okay Taylor at this time as twenty or twenty one. I think she wanted this done. Because we see her ordering drinks and pretty she's twenty one When this was filmed and Ya thirty. So he's quite a bit older you know he's thinking what the Hell don't have to answer this guy for. I'm not asking if I can marry her like Sh- right eat it somewhere to live and just clearly knew about it. You know she said go to your boyfriend's House so why the hell do I have to ask you if it's okay so finally Taylor's like just stop like down like with all this aggressive behavior? Like calm down and billy turns on her and she just walks out. She's like screw this like I'm not. I'm not going to sit around for this. Yes the Billy's asking outlook was that not so disrespectful and Alex just trying to get two cents. Can you just shut up like please? Just stop talking to this man. I don't know what's about to happen but stopped talking. Oh my God yeah it. Both of them and you can see like it's that thing where you end up with. Someone is kind of similar to your dad because like it's the same way with all his like stop he's saying I'm like y'all need to stop. They finally all go outside with Taylor. Billy Gates pissed punches. The Wall it leaves the Dan. I'm like okay. You're going to pay for that. And then Taylor ally go back and he punches the wall two more times punching the wall at Point. I knew I'm like he's he definitely had more than two drinks of the definitely because we saw him with a drink at the bar and then we saw him order the drink at the table so he had to have more than that. Yeah it was not good. It was very nerve wracking. And that's kind of how it ends like. They go back inside. I don't know if he ever ended up going back inside and they had a calmer conversation or if he just left or what that did not go. Well I'M GOING TO BET. It probably wasn't very calm because the next time we see billy he's with his oldest son. Ma who had just had together and he's twenty four. So can you imagine like they have that? Who's our oldest? And then two years later they have twins. Oh my Gosh I three years later you know what I mean. Three years later the twins are born full house at Isabel House altogether. They have five kids. That's a lot. Yeah Oh my gosh that Matt Matt teams to be being. The oldest child level headed very responsible. Doesn't want to be involved with everything that his brother and sister in even billy's like I don't know where this kid came from. I mean like he's my kid but I don't know how he's my kid he doesn't get trouble so pays bill de he's so good and you sell like such a proud dad when Matt's like punching the shit out of that punching bag this is great. He just thought it was so awesome to watch his kid. Beat the shit out of the punching bag and they kinda go outside and they start chatting and it was crazy because you just see matt like turn it around on billy. And he's like what do you want to do with your life who's like. Oh wow well I mean I kinda fucked it up with Taylor. So he's like this isn't about Taylor and Joe. This is about you what a you want and I think Matt has kind of put himself in that position like okay maybe I have to be the parent. Yeah let me parent you like. Get your life together. He has no definitely. You can tell that. He's like had some practice dealing with his dad. He knows exactly how he needs to deal with him. Yeah Yeah so this is where we have. Just like the heartbreaking Conversation BILLY SAYING THAT. He just wants the kids to come over like help themselves to food in the Fridge. Hang out like he just wants a normal family life and that's just not the case right now. Yeah he's like sometimes I just want to run away. I'm like where are you going to go? Yeah it's like you can't have both you can't run away and also have a normal family life. So right in just tell he so dashes his like eternal internal struggle. You know lack of do I want to like live the street life or whatever or do I wanna like be settled and with my family like he wants both and yeah. It's just hard to have both. It's a constant conflict I was really sad so then a nice turn of mood. We have the ladies going out on the town. And they're going to Margarita island which just looks like such a fun time. I love this place I to go here. I WANNA Margarita Island. It looks like it's great vibes and we have polly walking up. We have seen he walking up. All the guys are showing up and they're turning up. They're torquing the splits All kinds of crazy things danny and Corinna or their other friends that we don't know you know Corinna and CPR just kind of friendly dancing. I didn't take it for like many other friends. He was like dancing with all the girls. Like you just like that guy that goes in like bus a funny move and his last silly and goofy and like hangs out with the girls and the girls love him for it but it's not like sexual no C. P. reminds me of everybody's little brother. Yeah I know exactly how what a treat him because he's so goofy and the way he talks about things like last episode when he was just insecure like should. I wear black socks with white shoes. Slink Nandrolone every little brother right there that you just want to like hang out with a good time because there's not gonna be any drama where I am trying to hit on you. Yeah polly talking shit about. Cpi keys a cloud use a cloud and he like slow. Cpi slow sorry. Polly lake slowly walks by C. P. and is like giving him like aside. I and so he's like hey like he just like he's like come on. Come Party with us like what's up dude. What's your beef and then like frigging polly is calling him a clown in just like giving him shit in. Cps just like not letting it phase him and he's saying happy he's like why am I cloud? What are you talking about like you? So weird and then finally polly comes out with it. And he's like basically jealous that he was hanging out with Carina and he's like she. What does he call calls? Karina a dirt bag and out chaser. What the Hell Dude like. He could not be more so clearly jealous. Like you're the one dating a girl whose family already has status whether it's good or bad so It would the era would kind of point that you're the cloud chaser exactly and I'm just sitting here thinking Sammy. The bull is washing the show right now and just saw you call her daughter his daughter. Whatever granddaughter. A dirtbag like One escape into the poconos right. Well apparently he does go. Yeah so that ended up being like a whole argument between Pauline Carina. He calls her a bum lake just so trashy he just needs to go and he says he doesn't give a shit about everyone. Whatever so it's like go then like. Why are you here if you hate us so much? You don't care about any of us like why did you show up? But you know who showed up denny with the best. One liner trucks are worth training. Yes girl she's so why is she really is Yonder Years? So yeah then he leaves. And that's it. That's the episode crazy episode. And we'll see because next week they're going to the. Poconos we did get a little bit of a Inside SCOOP FROM CPI and Denny. During the live last night they were talking about how when they were the producers. Were like trying to keep them from getting like so incredibly drunk and so they kept pouring out there. Alcohol like the talked about how he worked so hard on like doing the whole thing. Where you like? Put Alcohol in the watermelon and you like slice it up. Yeah like let it soak and then that way. You can take like watermelon shots or whatever you like work so hard on and then they dumped the whole thing ao and that like denny had a secret like she was secretly hiding because they knew they were like they were dumping everything out so she had a secret bottle of fireball that hearns. Ep were like sneaking upstairs to go. Gosh that is great. It was so funny I was like. Oh my God. I can't wait to see the episode. And they were like I don't know what the producers wanted from us. You want us to sit around and talk about our favorite color like no. That's not GONNA do. We like to have fun so sorry. It was so funny. That's so great. I can't we seen accepted. So yeah it's going to be a fun one okay. You're ready to talk about the book. Yes let's get into the book we haven't even talked about it like very much outside of the podcast. Though I'm excited Oh okay. So carrying bravado. Wrote a book called the mob daughter and and she basically tells her experience growing up and how it was growing up with her father being underboss in the Mafia and she gives a little bit of his back story and talks about how he was in the military and then he kind of started as a street kid even though like his family was not in the Mafia at all And that the Mafia started from from Italy and it was called Cosa Nostra because it was in Costa Notre translate to our thing and so in Italy there would be a mafia and everybody would kind of handle their own. You know. Take care of the Pete. The Nostra is our pizza right. Yeah you okay. Thank you and so So you know when they everybody started emigrating to New York. It was the same thing like we gotta take care of our own that we gotta take care of. Italians right you know. That's why you have like little Italy all that in New York. So there's like so much but basically like she goes through her whole life and she never really knows what her dad does. It wasn't until she became like twelve or thirteen that she kinda started putting it together. You know like she would see people with that. They were really close with the die and their names in the paper Or kids start to be like. Oh we can't play with you because of what your dad does and like she would have no clue and then one day. She found a gun in her parents room and like saw her dad like put the gun at his pants. Then walkaway got a young age. He knew like I just shouldn't ask questions. Because my mom's not gonNa tell me like she would just slowly put all the pieces of the puzzle together and so she talks about Where the guy do you remember the guy? The journalist Dan who was like Oh and Danforth that was his name You have Paul Cost Janas picture up here and your data order to hit on handling so that was a big part of the book talking about like how she remembered seeing it from her point of view and the most fascinating part. Though was she talks about so Paul dies. Koa The hiccup put out on him because and this is all from her her point of view her book. Yes I like. You're speculating like he said it happened in her brain. I have no idea it. If this is really how it went. Down Right So Paul was the godfather of the Mafia at the time of the Gambino family mafia There's like to camping in Colombo Whichever one Sammy was in Paul the Godfather of it well John Gotti was running drugs and that is a big. No no in the mafia like you do not run drugs even like a Rico Act. There's a law. It's like the wherever like fads. Like look were we'll get you all on drugs and so it was just across the board. Everybody in the mafia was like we're not fucking withdraws like we'll like run. Our money through construction will Have different plumbing businesses all of that but nobody deals drugs? We don't move drugs. Nothing on John. Gotti's guys were running drugs and Paul found out and he was gonNA have a hit put on John Gawdy John Gotti had the hit. Could on Paul. I thank God that wiped Paul Out and that me John Gotti the Godfather. Only Gosh. That's so crazy. Like how do we not know all of this stuff? I felt like this should be like taught in the history books I know right. This is the history we need to be learning. But it's illegal so maybe right and so that tells. Sami became the underboss so he was John. Berthoud basically number to his right hand man. He did everything for him and so John. Gotti was very flamboyant about what he did. He didn't care he would fall on it in the feds faces like aren't GonNa touch me. Lock this and Sammy. Down with that because the mafia had always been caps such a secret. You just don't worry laundry willing and secret society almost and so they all got busted. They knew they're about to get busted and John Gotti called Sammy the bull to this meeting place of theirs and set. Sammy didn't want to go because he knew I'm GONNA walk in. You need like soon as I walk in. I'm GONNA get busted and sure enough like he walks in. He sits down next to John. Gotti and the feds walk in idea. Everybody make everybody leave except for John. Gotti Sammy what other guy they take on. They put him in and as they're setting jail GR- Karen has an uncle who was on the outside. He was also in with Sammy. The bull his uncle Eddie. He tells them like John. God is about to sell you out like he's going to go and he's going to tell everybody like. I lost control of the Hitman. Sammy the book. I couldn't control him. He just went on a killing spree. Oh my Gosh Sammy. The bull was like fuck that no. You're not like urinate into all trouble. And you know it was a big thing like Karen said at growing up we were always feel like you're not a rat you don't sell out your family. She's like my dad would never let my brother and I saw each other out ever. We would get in so much trouble if we tattled on each other. Wow and so that. She was just taught at her whole entire life like Ustinov. Your family and the Mafia was family and Sammy had had enough. Because he didn't like the way that John Gotti was running the mafia so he said like everybody to the prison and he said get there early because he didn't want John Gotti to know and so Karen and her mom and Uncle Eddie all wet and he was like. I have to tell you something. I'm cooperating I told them I need a two weeks so at my family and all my affairs in order but this is what's going to happen and she said Karen that she was so pissed at her father that day because she felt like he had betrayed everything that he taught her growing up. Yeah it's like. You told me not to snitch my whole life like you're you are working with the feds crazy. Yeah and so he does it. He makes the deal. They go on trial and John. Gotti tried to get everybody to like rattlesn- emmys cage so that he wouldn't speak and a glad. He called the House one day to talk to care at and said you have your father. He can't do this like tell him like there's no way he asked to back out of it. You have to listen to me now. Like I'm I'm your father like your father's away. No you have to. You have to tell him what I'm saying an so. Sammy called the house. Talk to Karen and she just loses inserts cry because what Eddie was saying like you have to tell your father to like kill himself no like just like take cyanide. She was gonNA take cyanide up to the prison like that. He doesn't do this because he's GonNa have. He's about to wrap so many people out thoughts terrible. Yeah like apparently Sammy knew about it. Like if he decided he wasn't GonNa do it. And I from what I read. The book is like basically he made this deal with Eddie Eddie would get off of him because he never really trusted Eddie Of like okay. Yeah like if I decide. Then that's what I'll do but he he wasn't he was never going to do it And so trial comes. None of the family went. They couldn't sit there like John. Gotti tried to get his wife to go deb and not doing it. And the unspoken rule in the Mafia with kids and wives are off the table. Like you don't ever fuck with them like if somebody rats somebody else out. It's all like it's a man's world like it's all men bit men's business you do not go after their wife. You do not go after their kids will. That's what Uncle Eddie. Did when he involved Karen that she needed to give her. Dad's cyanide bobbing the kids know and so Contest to nineteen murders and laid it all out. He got five years and prison. John Crazy her nineteen murder now and then John Gotti got shit ton in like he died John. Gotti died at present a throat. Cancer in two thousand and two But so Samuel Served. His five years got out went into the witness. Protection program hung out there for like a year and there was like like. I'm over this whatever. Sign himself out with live in areas where the family was at the time Gerard had a restaurant because all of the assets were then putting deb's name and he did it on purpose of that they couldn't touch the EMMYS money right A shock how like they had money hidden in the walls when she was growing up like to a one point two million dollars hidden in Soga. This is literally like as you're telling me this I'm like I don't think it's real because it's like something out of a movie like Oh this is real. It's real and so word had started to get out slowly who that. Sami was an era zona. That like the avodados Worthy Gra. Von Owes Aaron what's going back and forth with her boyfriend Leigh and then they ended up breaking up. Which is Kinda talked about earlier with Creena Paulie of Than she met. Dave and his father And Gerard got in with a guy who was named John Papa and he was involved with Israeli mob in those rayleigh mob would run from New York to California and Arizona and they would run drugs. They would run ecstasy and drawer involved. You're trying to solve of debt. Long Story Short Karen has to end up telling her dad. Hey Gerard's like mixed in with the wrong crowd And I mean her. Dad knew this guy they look. Oh yeah he's fine. There's nothing wrong because they didn't want to tell dad the truth very so. Sammy goes over to Gerard's house puts a gun to his head. And you're not going to ruin your life this way. This is freaking ridiculous. You know on and on and on I did not put. I did not go through everything for our family for you to fuck it up my gosh. Wow so he's like okay. Okay like I'm died. He gives Gerardo loan and says get yourself out of it. Pay Like pay your way out. Basically yes so because John. Figured out who drives dad was and was like in contact with him. He started using Sammy Bulls name for clout and he was going to shit to me. Because I'm in cahoots with Sammy. The Bull and you don't know who he is and this really mob got a hold of it and was like let's have a sustainable was like down. Have a meeting. They all went to Gerard's restaurants. They had a chat. And Sammy. Basically you aren't GonNa fuck with me like you don't know what I can do to you. What on Nago on on ain't shit. So then everybody kind of left him alone. But slowly. The Arizona Sheriff's Department started getting wind of it and they didn't tell the feds because they didn't want the feds to try to protect Sammy. Well though they like built this case at all that they had already had a case on John Papa but then they switched it over to Sammy. The Bull norling keys to one running because he was running a pool company at the time. And so they're like. Oh that's what they're doing like they're running this illegally and that Swat the D. like storm deb's house and through exonerated. That's when like Karen was talking about Korea being Bainian rated and they all got arrested like her aunt had to come get Carina. Take her to her house. Gerard was driving up and saw the DEA agents and then like went to go to his dad's apartment. They had already gotten his dad his apartment only God Harare and had to turn him turn himself in an hour later and they ended up coming to deal. Sammy said take me like which is crazy. Because it's not even his thing no they had no involvement in it like they. Corinna didn't do anything Karen and Dave had no real involvement in it but because the name was in the house was in deb's name and the restaurant was in deb's name and they all kind of worked there and lived there that's how they got the other two. Dang and because are taught to Gerard on the phone about an ecstasy deal. That's how they got her and so crazy I am. You took the fall. And he said he told the lawyer he's like you tell everybody else to sign their deals. No questions asked was like I'm not signing this. And the where you have to like. Your Dad is not budging. You have to sign the steel. And she's like they're they're lying like they're lying on him. He had no involvement. He gave my brother ten thousand dollars to get himself out not to buy drugs. Yeah and they're like no your dad's Elliott. There's no negotiating have signed a deal so she signed the deal. She got no jail time. Her MOM got no jail. Time Gerard and Dave got nine years. Sammy got nineteen. He served all of it and she said that there was so much anger and frustration builds up between the two of them then they would always go back and forth with each other at visits in like finally won one visit. She just blew up ammos like you don't understand like how hard you made my life when you did what you did. Yeah like I had a rebuild who I was completely and she did. I just ask your telling you all this. I'm like it's crazy that she has turned it into such a positive and she's like doing these shows she has this restaurant like she's just a her whole life's purpose is to like turn all of the ships she had to go through into a positive like positive thing. Yeah because her friends had to stop talking to her because her friends had bothers that were in the Mafia and it was like you can't associate with them right and so she had nothing. She was like struggled to find her identity because for the first nineteen years of her life. She was Sammy the bull's daughter men then after that it was like well. Now Your Dad Sammy the rat. So what are you? She had to try to prove herself all those years and figure out who she was that she wanted to batgirls that she went around the streets. You know. Does she want to be a mom? Wow this is a struggle. Until she said now like her and her dad had a really good place And they've been able to like come to terms and talk through everything but Yeah. I'm going to present for nineteen years for your kid that's love it is love like oh. Dan Oh my gosh well yeah. Thanks for reading that book. That's so interesting and it really does give like a whole other aspect to this show is like it's interesting to watch everything but then you hear about all the stuff that went on behind the scenes and it takes it to another level for sure. Yes I can't wait to read Sammy's book So we can hear about his time like what his side of the story is like how it was being the Gambino family mafia Yeah I'm interested to see that one too. So I'm sure we'll get a lovely alley recap on that one too and a couple of episodes and yeah. Thanks for listening guys. Was there anything else. Look or anything else are eight. Well thanks for listening and catch us on Instagram at spirits. Your podcast go to our website if you want to support the show which is still podcasts. Dot Com if you WANNA buy swag If you're not into buying slag zero weirdo. Also support our show by leaving us. A five star review so that others combined our podcast. Thanks guys. We'll talk to you later.

Therese Sammy Karen Mafia John Gawdy John Gotti Billy Gates Denny New York Paul Karen Carina Taylor Creena Paulie polly Ramona Joe Arizona Lisa Alec Alec Leah Karina Staten Island
Introducing: What Makes a Killer

Mafia

05:17 min | 9 months ago

Introducing: What Makes a Killer

"Hey Mafia fans this is the producer Rachel if you like a deep dive into the life and crimes of the world's most infamous serial killers we'll hear from detectives they gave walking Kroll a taste for savage jury or the Severe Abuse Casey suffered at the hands of his and just for Mafia listeners audio shared an exclusive clip about the Duisburg Man Eater now here's an exclusive preview of what makes a killer what makes a killer contains it's summer nineteen seventy six in the industrial town of Duisburg neighborhood girl four year old Marion Koetter a tingling feeling mm-hmm Kroll lures the girl back to his home there he sexually abuses uh-huh failures when a four year old goes missing the alarm bells go off everywhere roaches them visibly shaken he explains that the waste pipe in his apartment guts the police confront breath it's a scene of unspeakable horror there was this girl completely dismembered upper four placed on corresponding or crawl had not lied there are internal organs clogging the Pipes Messiah divisional long only for two years does that was something where you had to more for two decades yolk in crawl targeted women across killing at least fourteen people the youngest was Marion. Koetter MM stealth innocent. People were accused of his crimes if he's what makes a killer a twelve part series that chronicles the lives and crimes the killers origins examine their behavior and follow their path to bloodshed. We'll be releasing a new episode every week. Subscribe

Marion Koetter Duisburg Kroll Casey producer Rachel four year two decades two years