11 Episode results for "Madeira Island"
Food Neighbourhoods 107: Funchal, Old Town
"Hello and welcome to neighborhoods are monocle twenty four. I am Marcus hippie. All these various the local Salah for their food and drink offerings. And in this series, we get to know these places this week Monaco Scarlata Rabelo takes us to her hometown fun shell in Madeira Island. And while you might think that the old sound neighbourhood would be a tourist trap as she explains, it's actually a popular hangout place for locals here. She is. Today we take off to the island of Madeira just off the Portuguese Atlantic coast where to summer nights extend well beyond the supposed season. Its main city. Flint shell found over five hundred years ago is just what you would expect from a typical island capital. It's history is rooted in the ocean at faces and even today, much of the hustle and bustle of everyday life revolves around the Atlantic. The business district and downtown area are stone throws away from the waterfront. The sound of foghorns fill the air marquee rival of a new cruise ship to the port. But I want to take you to what it all started back in fifteen await meet the all town neighborhood. This area is a mandatory stopover whenever I'm back home, even if just for short weekend trip, the Boras lines are loosely defined by one of its main attractions. Democarcy Schlitt adored ish. The city's biggest market. It's always a treat to start your day here from across the road. You can already spot colorful exotic fruits where the stalls extend beyond the market stores for a light breakfast. You have the fresh selection of fashion fruits. Mangoes have cattles p Tonga's dragon, fruits, Tom Leila's, and even the regional variety of banana. And if the bright colors ought shapes, intimidates, you do not worry vendors are more than happy to provide samples before you commit. Not that we have that sorted. It's time for the most essential part of any cheese breakfast, a strong flavorful Espresso. Across the road and make our way to flitting cafe opened over sixty years ago to Cestari cafe might go on notice the sort of a hole in the wall type of situation, but the art deco sign that hangs from the door is enough to grab your attention inside as you wait for your coffee, make sure to notice a huge coffee grinder from the nineteen sixties that hangs in the back. It's still fully functioning and it does make me believe that the more you use it, the better the coffee tastes. After a stall around some of the historic alleyways of the old town, it's time for lunch. One of my favorite places is called Venda, Donna, Maria located in one of the city's oldest streets. It might come as a surprise that it is more popular with locals than terests. Luckily the council decided to remove most traffic from the area a couple of years ago, meaning that this is the perfect spot for an office. Camille. I usually don't bother even looking at the menu. Just ask the chef for the catch of the day. That's the advantage of hanging out in an island. Now, there's one thing you need to know about Portugal. If you fully to embrace the foodie experience, we love our afternnon snacks. And when I say snacks don't mean some peanuts or an apple, no, I mean a sandwich pastry or something. Even bigger. We call this meal lunch and around here your best after noon, three comes into form of bullet AKU, a type of bread. Typical of Madeira made. We'd flour and a hint of sweet potato to we eat. It would pretty much anything incite Theresa octopus ham and cheese, or even simply butter. In this area, there are no go to places just pick one of the many seafront fron kiosks or then head to NICO's Uboldo Cocco only food truck parked nearby. Now, a stroll along these cobblestone streets following the shoreline will lead you to Santiago fort. With its bright yellow facade. This place played a crucial role in defending the city from invaders nineteen seventy s today. Part of the fortress is a museum and the other can be hired for private events, but housed within its walls is the forty restaurant, the ideal location for our dinner. Overlooking both the bay or from shell and the Atlantic. It has one of the best views in town and the food is equally fantastic if you'd like some fish, make sure you try to see us with a passion, fruit sauce for meet the dark has always exquisite. Now that the sun has set, you might be wondering where to go next for drink lots of stroll up the road and next to a church. You'll find a buck leading about cafe set mostly outside than some formal yet stylish setting suits. Everyone sits at one of the many tables. Overlooking the water or in one of the pillows and rugs covering the surrounding walls and benches. It's time now to order a glass of the local drink puncher made of lemon juice mixed with Honey and firewater sit back and relax for monocle. I'm Carlotta Rabelo. These being episode number one hundred and seven food neighborhoods. Thanks to Carlos for the tour in food shells old town for more food and drink stories students the menu every Friday as nineteen hundred London time I am Marcus hippie. Thanks for listening. Bye now.
REALISASYON | 2ND ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL | UNRELEASED EPISODE | TAGALOG HORROR STORY
"The. Tories? This episode is sponsored by anger. podcasting is so much fun, and now it's easier than ever to start your own podcast with anger. Everyone is passionate about something for example I love talking about spooky stuff now. Thanks to anchor, you can spread the word about the things you love, and maybe even make some money doing it. Start Your podcast for free with anchor, using the anger, APP or by going to anchor DOT FM. They'll even distribute your show for you. You'll be heard on spotify apple podcasts and many more of your favorite podcasting platforms. Anger also provides tools to allow you to record and edit your show from your computer and even from your phone. And no matter how big or small your audience is, you can make money from your podcast. It's everything you need to make a podcast in one place. I use anger and it's been the best podcasting platform I've been a part of so join me start your podcast today by downloading the anchor APP or go to anchor dot, FM. 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BANTAY NG AKING KALULUWA, ANG ANINO SA VERANDA, ROAD IN CAVITE II TRAVEL HORROR STORIES PART 7
"Task. This episode is sponsored by inker. podcasting is so much fun, and now it's easier than ever to start your own podcast with anger. Everyone is passionate about something for example, I love talking about spooky stuff now thanks to anchor. You can spread the word about the things you love and maybe even make some money doing it. Start. Your podcast for free with anchor using the anchor APP or by going to. ANCHOR DOT FM. They'll even distribute your show for you. You'll be heard on spotify apple podcasts and many more of your favorite podcast platforms. Anger also provides tools to allow you to record and edit your show from your computer and even from your phone. And no matter how big or small your audience is you can make money from your podcast. It's everything you need to make a podcast in one place. I using her and it's been the best podcasting platform. I've been a part of. 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"Christmas Day special "
"You're listening to the briefing first broadcast on Christmas Day. Two Thousand Nineteen on monocle twenty four. The briefing is brought to you in partnership with Rolex Doc. Hello and welcome to the briefing coming to you. Live from studio one here. MIDORI house in London on Christmas Day around the table. Robert bound around Andrew. Talk on me thome Edwards coming up father. Christmas is emptied his Sakamato Story House. We'll see what we're left with and we'll hear about regional Christmas traditions from our highly cosmopolitan colleagues and ask which deserves to enter the global mainstream traditions. Not The colleagues by the way and and we'll talk to Monaco's editor in chief. Tyler lay live from Switzerland. That is all coming up right here on the briefing with me. Robert Bounded Bounds. Andrew Tickles Tuck doc and Ted Water himself. Thanks for tuning in. Well here we are. It's noon on Christmas Day and Ken. China is say there's nowhere I'd rather be able with you gentlemen. We'll full of the festive Joyce. Yeah I'm surprised you came down in your pajamas. Talton Pajama Christmas. The surprise it's about the the piping complete with jingle bells. We heard those in the introduction. You'll be you'll jangling. There's a little bit later coming from and as you just address adjusting your address on the stoop have come on come onto jingle bells or you look very handsome so it wasn't Christmas morning normally like shape bound I can imagine you know patient Monroe tearing you president gave President Open. Andrew probably looks like that causes talk as well is very traditional house. We go sledging. First thing. In the morning make snowman the robins off of the of the forecast garden. That kind of thing. I'm rob was alluding to this. I drink was acceptable. I think that Churchill ask Champagne breakfast interest absolutely fine yeah. Is there a limit. You still going from Christmas eve rope sort of quiet down. You've gotta you've gotTa pace yourself but yeah you're right champagne breakfast. I mean certainly when you wrapped presents it it helps to muster disappointment with a nice glass of Roger definitely a ah the champagne with the presence in the morning without a doubt that's important we're all devout Making time on this special of diced. I Don I I went last night. Yeah you're talking about your. You didn't go. I think you live in a fairly. Even if it's an area well served by churches in you know in a secular hotspot executive. No I like Imus. Also I like I like the the religious music. Yeah Christmas time I talked to domestic okay but I am full choice for me is particularly food and drink. That's what gets me. They're so generous. I thought maybe having two children giving them presents might be the things that he wants a little bit. You've got to do that. I haven't game season tickets. I Yep okay check times too well on that very subject chaps can see rub you. You weren't wrong earlier about scientists empty sack he's Lavish Sean. Believe got anything left upon us. We've all got some gifts we shall we tear into them. I don't know who he wants to get off on the first one I. I must say somebody's gone to a great effort to You've got some Nice Nice wrapping paper. I've got that can type them. I've got the time the tea is been used to Corrupt my gear. Oh who expresses the postal man is accelerating very good sound effects. I'm going to get in here going I'm not sure what it is. It's a man. Bag is a man backward. John have blips is red plastic. I think it's definitely single. Use Plastic offer. Go this route. I I'm I'm not. I'm not sure it. It could be used for trump's in Maybe hand luggage when you're when you're having a quick pre. It was a swim rather than like something. You'd give someone in a hospital bed who couldn't quite get the lavatory as well. It's like a pipe attached to it and you. I think this is pretty good. The first gift and I think this is a clue as to yours. Live received the gourmet book of Microwave. Cookery and as I understand the century what you have there in your hands my friend a microwave omelet maker. Wow you see. I'm offer lots of protein in the morning so I could ask me. That is not for Youtube better hanging Christmas. But why wouldn't you just make your eggs in your plan. I will need to get back to central. I've got I've received the museum. Cookbook of vintage edition really beautiful. That's Ah Stephen Designing things that I turn the pay. The first page food page. forty-seven perhaps echoing the the eyes Tabatha listeners. Recipe for glazed walnuts. Soon as I hope it is beautiful stuff recipes from across Mercer potato ancient. Rome what what could be done very little. I've received another book I'm not quite sure what produces trying to convey to me here. It's called how's Your Dad. Ah by Mick channon junior and this type of embracing failure in the shadow of success. WHO's MIC challenging? Racehorse owner. Well that's mcdonagh senior on and it was the footballer race. Sort of IMPRESARIO. Believe mixon junior hasn't hasn't done that much. I've got one I've I've got. What's what's cooled? The jet setters travels all is good football rattle. I can literally take that to the guys bitch the knickerbockers Rosalie EXAC- anyone taking such a thing to say. Imagine imagine you're still doing back in the jet setters travel. We'll trunk is a trunk. I'll try it. Although oddly essential packs of cards and with questions does He. If you really understand the international world we live in so okay first question is Chris. You're in Sydney Robe. Yeah and your thongs too tight. What are you wearing as much as I love to disappoint here and know that the budgie smuggler is the word for tight swimming trunk? I'm going the FLIPFLOP. You'RE GONNA you're in New York and beaten so many burgers that your fanny pack is too tired this. Thanks very much let you'll get. What's he wearing? Yeah we of course famously saying this country the comeback. That's the one you give Andrew One preselect you know. I think thing this is this is this one is is part of Christmas party Scottish. It says in Scotland is illegal to be drunk while in possession of which farm animal. Well the way that the way that gives us the sheep or a cow I would probably probably go with Cao just because I would often history de okay this is really GonNa get okay. Let's give the chef let's go right in here chaps you're in Los Angeles and kind stranger tells you that you'll pants a stained okay take again to which to which item of clothing though is he referring just bearing might might be holy might be in a state of unrest but if your pants estate the strange thing is you might think trousers by trouble double with Tom Before and I. It's pants breakfast. I get very nervous especially dial the mercury is rising does things to mad okay and just one final in sort of Christmas cracker and before we leave You're in some curvy. Finland watching a world championship race. What are the male contestants carrying this? Is it their wives. That is exactly correct for bonus point. What can they win? What did they win for successfully carrying a wife the most amount of time or the greatest distance to win your wife's weight in beer kind of you want to build you? Yeah I'm built up because next year could be big party again. Well thanks very much for my real ones pecan cooking cooking mushrooms and letting us any sort joke about sort of mushrooms. I thoroughly enjoyed my vegetarian recipes for the first quarter. I saw many things Splendid a gift our thanks to Father Christmas to Santa. Call him what you will. Are you listening to a special Christmas Day. Addition of the roofing now. It's no understatement to say that we monocle proud of our international and globalized is pool of staff have largely totaled off back to their countries of origin to celebrate Christmas in the motherland. Now but one earth they all up to early iron intrepid internal to me made the rounds to our some of them. What Christmas is like at home? In Belgium we celebrate Christmas on the twenty fourth on Christmas Eve. And I like it like that. I think we all we all get together around five PM. We gather around Christmas tree. We play some silly games to reveal our secret. Santa the opener presidents. We have three dinner and then pass out while watching homeland done snappy easy one evening with the family more than enough I just find human pretend a whole day of eating and drinking. She's so as a dual Austrian and American citizen. I have a lot to choose from but I'm going to go with Christmas market markets because it's the biggest thing that I missed when I lived in the United States and Austria. I would argue along with Germany. Does them better than anywhere else. It's a tradition that slowly early picking up steam in a lot of different countries but often frankly the kitch- tends to take priority over the traditions that you have in Austria and Germany which which are really about food friends good mode wine and really just having a good time rather than trinkets than anything else that you will get at a Christmas. This market Outside of Germany or Austria so big push for better traditional Christmas markets with one additional thing I'd say is is think about having them after Christmas in Vienna. There's some beautiful Christmas markets stay. They turn into New Year markets. There's a wonderful ice rink and market have right outside the city hall that stays through January as well so just keep the tradition going. Well I really like about Italian. Christmas is is the fact that you essentially get drunk on food. Because the amount is just staggering during its just a marathan takes ages and ages and I know that people across the world will eat like big roast dinners but for us. It's just three starters starters and three first courses and three second courses and then three desserts and speaking of desserts and this is an Italian tradition it has has already been exported widely but many people think of Italian dessert. An Italian Christmas I should say and they will think about donate but actually I want for Pandoro to finally get just as much an international reputation as pundits on. Dora is the kind of dried the fruit. Less version of panettone essentially aggie fluffier lighter a little bit of kids taste but of pudding which is probably why I really like it and I think deserves the recognition that China has so far. Had I mean the biggest thing. Is that summer in Australia. Which obviously given that? Most of the population lives on the coast means. It's time for the a bitch so we're going for a swim and waiting to say now on no that isn't necessarily easily replicated added in other parts of the world but maybe if you're in the northern hemisphere it might be a good opportunity did jump in the ocean for polar bear stall plunge or just maybe grew gross and fish. Get something on the barbecue and enjoy the weather even if it is called Christmases board shorts and no top. You know I mean it's about getting selling the skin and and getting into the if I could get an international community to adopt at tradition tradition. It would be one that is from my hometown and in Madeira Island in Portugal and is on the twenty third of December. This thing called the market night so everyone gathers in the historic core of the city around the central market. That like during the day sells fruit and veg and and fish and flowers but on this particular day on the twenty third of December. The market is open at night. And all the streets around it which you know it's cobblestone streets really tiny alleyways because it's the historic center are closed to traffic and all the vendors pour out into the street as well so then this goes on until like four in the morning and obviously some people are going there to try to buy fruit and Veg for Christmas Day but the vast majority to just becomes a really nice sort of like city wide party. Well one of my cousins. Dozens is a lifeguard used to be the majority of his career and every Christmas. Since I remember they have gone on Christmas Day in the little town of fourth call which is on the coast in west Wales to go for Christmas. deb Now a few years ago maybe two years ago I went and joined them for the first time there was a sea of people. You couldn't move and it was the most festive lovely ipe day. People of all ages all wearing of Christmas costumes. I had my own. It'll cheap servicemen. Lamb jump on an into the sea we went and it was bracing and cold on the kind of cold where you sort of. Forget your name for a split second second but you come out and this cold Christmas Day starts you know clinging to your clothes. It's like the the warriors making claims clean to your body and your sort exhilarated and it was really wonderful. And then you go back into the big old sort of beachside arcade where we should be turned into a huge makeshift dressing room for Christmas Day and everyone sharing the little stories. They're war stories of being in the sea for a minute or two and it was really a lovely bit of Cameraderie on Christmas Day. I haven't done it since because I haven't been in that part of Wales seats but maybe this year I'll try and put my Christmas. Jim Product dip back into the waves. Because I think we in Wales on Christmas Day one of the coldest part of the year can go to the beach. Go into the sea and celebrate Christmas in that way. I don't think many other people have much of an excuse. Frankly so how does that International comparison compared to the the bound experience street party. Would you get into that. vibe depends it's more of a Conga inbound family than a street party but it depends how how would you need to open your doors windows rental. The food in my estimation Russian. What about you guys? is talking about. It's more of a Foodie. Pudding is sweet sweet treats kind of day is is less is more easy on the alcohol cojones about Champs you survive. You survive the Queen's speech here. I I find oddly. The I run out of steam about one or two courses sources. I I'm I'm I'm not about this week things as this idea of celebrating Christmas Eve. I'm keeping Christmas Eve sacred for another more important. The thing is my birthday. Yes yeah so get out. If I was born in bowl in Belgium I'd have an even worse time of it. No one would remember. You know you'd just be just be like the the ham stocked stuck with cloves just another just another club. People have said before. But that's why is interesting talking about the beach and I did one I. I did it in the late. Eighty S. I was in Australia Christmas Australia. And it's crazy on my uncle there to the fall. I just walk okay. Because it's like it's like a party but I can't get onboard with the whole appropriate like that as you get into it. It was too weird. There's a bit like if you drink a cup of tea in the bath breath. Drink a cup of tea and if you go in a box even if you drink wine in the bath and as I say. That is gin and tonic old. This is how I can't work out and then bodies in this it was just too weird. I couldn't get bored of the strangely around needs to be overcast here okay. It'll be a proper Christmas strangely. Warm just just a bit slightly too hot. Yeah candidates sultry gray For Boxing Tesfaye. Because that's kind of that is a nice tradition. I think the so sporting traditions that come with Christmas Clinton is like a box index. Boy Fish even know this is a very immediate confrontation with some of the consequences of the Christmas Day. Excesses the crowd mockery for you. Head in Rhode Fourteen. So I guess the question on this are you gonNA. Are you gonNA challenge any of the established traditions. Because what we've heard. I do like the big extreme party. I think it'd be nice. I think Christmas things the families that wonderful thing but I'd like to. I like to open the doors and windows even wider and turn it into a big colossal street party if we go on through to a boxing day and rattle rattle is always always trouble in the fourteenth terrace. You're listening to a special Christmas Day edition of the briefing and I hope hug you stay tuned to multiple twenty four Monaco Rolex. Bring you the pioneers. The Pie is a brand new series that tells the stories of people improving the planet. Hey how Rolex support these innovators with whom they share a passion to safeguard in the F- future generations gain insight into the fresh thinking that is disrupting received wisdom for the better and learn how Phyllis action continues to be the crucial driver of change. The pioneers important a ship with Rolex. Now clearly there's someone missing from Christmas gathering here today. Monaco's editor in chief Tyler. Rela- IS ALAS NOT HERE AT Monaco Towers but hawk down the line can be multiples own state nick. Tighter welcome to the program. Merry Christmas disproven and rob. And now you are in a properly properly snowy place. We're told me here in the Studio Andhra very jealous. Are you slaying I am I'm rob. You should know better than Andrew. Andrew Andrew Andrew should be here doing what role in his in his day clothes and listeners. You if you don't recall us you've read the call them it's it's sort of become a bit of its lips lower Certainly around Midori House isn't it. We Andrew was. We had only a year ago now Andrews in Saint Moritz. He was there. We're at a house in some sort of said. Maybe you should go sledding today. And and he of course this firmly lands on on my doorstep. I was making this Jesse. Did but if you sort of peer up from this wonderful Wonderful Hotel at two zero three thousand two hundred meters. Whatever the vacation as you would think that you don't wear an alden loafer and denim and little Colton assault and Jaunty wool coat? That's how they that's how they did it in Victorian Times Taller. I rather like it did anyway. Anyway but this was this was Andrew Talk just flying into two twenty nineteen at the time and and we were standing there with some some friends and colleagues and Bis Black Mercedes van pulls up might as well have been a hearse and and the door slides open up. Who is his broken getting out? I'm in any way and in terms of his kind of sell toy with choices on that I talk he. He did foresee in sort of Mountain Crystal Bowl. These clothes it would be easier to remove in the department you can get. The clinic can get their hospital. Shears through or you can just slip off. finot escape is is tough to remove taller. We'd be talking about all sorts of Christmas traditions around the world on this program A hearing how international cast of Merry Men and women here at Monaco. Mark the day whether it's Christmas Eve Christmas Day itself of course any particular things that you really look forward to speculating about. What's what's the appropriate o'clock to start drinking? It seemed early was the order of the day. He's already in our ahead of you can already tell that I'm having a Shoghi lumber already already I'm me. I'm running the Bar I went and purchased the world's most expensive uses for GIN and tonics before I headed up to the mountains. I didn't listen to my colleague. Linda I didn't believe her that she when she said that the users were like I don't know they were there one hundred Swiss francs a kilo or something and I didn't believe it. I think I looked at wrong long as well because I think it said ten but that was one hundred grams so anyway one hundred Swiss francs later. I've I've eight users about four left the the GIN and tonics very good last night and then. Then there's it's it's a combination gentleman of bit of Estonia There was a bit of of of Sweden in the buffet. There's of course fish and of course herring Figures rather large There's there's a very nice pat At an Estonian potato. My mother does of course Swedish meatballs. And Yeah this might be a SCHNAPPS. There's there's some new potatoes and then the highlight and it's always. I don't know if you have this in your house. There is that the problem dish and literally the coming year can be ruined. If this doesn't come off right and this is the kringle this is the Estonian Raisin Almond Cardamon Safran bread which is which is done into a beautiful braided. I didn't remember my mother's decided that it cooks best at eighteen hundred meters above sea level in in a in a Siemens oven. So it it it it works I like that I think Swedish meatballs. Will you will be hearing from their their legal team that we know what's next next year for a gift. Tyler Yuzu tree surprisingly we with three of them at the office and then someone told me because I thought I was GONNA be able to pick the users Before I had up to the mountains and someone said there was a usually thief So I mean I I. I think gathered a few a couple of weeks ago. I thought it was just be a bounty of uses. It wasn't some someone came around and That actually bought fought back my own supply. They probably made their way to globus to the food anyway. I think they didn't say it tasted all the better for the extra. They did. Their spiky spiky basis easy to you've gotTA mind the tricks you can tell. The Japanese Japanese engineering don't now did you tom to Jordi cover. What happens in the independent household? What is there is there sort of this this crisis dish that that your dad was about so I was Gonna ask well by the he was the program about it? It seems to involve a Conga line. That's what we've been guaranteed Sussex. What's your back? Yeah and I've the Japanese part of the family. So that's emergency knob a tyler which I'll show you probably approve. It will head south. If at all heads ver ver very south Yuichi miss before for Christmas. That we Of course we had a variety of different Christmas events around the world. We speak him now but we did something in Tokyo. Of course we had our big bash In in London at a very very nice fondue evening and not a fondue Shinwa but a fondue cheese fondue with Zurich colleagues at Landes museum just before we broke up for the holidays that is i. Didn't I didn't realize it was possible to Hungary over again today smacking when it comes to a fond eruption wa our or orch useful how long game straight and I'm going straight cheese. US right shoes. Tom Seconded okay. There we go okay. I can head on back and let's let's leave him to chat with you. Thanks for. We'll get very soon thank you. That's all liberal. A ROB here. We are in the studio look. Andrews gambled back. Well there. You have it. That is almost all we have time harmful on this special Christmas Day edition of the briefing. Thanks to Tyler for jumping on the line. I must say Andrew in the mountains. That's that's that's a good Christmas the option and that right there isn't it being awesome stuff. Maybe play fraction snowy mountain tops. Chilly he'll gathering the fire. But we've heard traditions today and I think that the interesting thing is that we all kind of make our own tuitions and a family anyways doing things which we make claim that we hate and annoy. ESPN fat it's time of year. When you kind of go backwards a bit and kind of remember what was I being a kid and and you enjoy the pleasure of the kids around you so great catch up with everyone and And I and I'm quite pleased how Christmas goes and I think for all of us off often stay we can slink away and quite a few days come back in two hundred. Twenty guns blazing. Thanks rob thanks to Angie. Thanks to our friends behind the Glass Augustine Match alario produced today's Program Research Rep bought ours. Assistance came from nicotine e- Thanks to Louis as well for twirling the dials. But that's all for me Tom Edwards. Let's talk infamy bound. This time Chris the Monica Malek Spring. You the pioneers. For the the founder of Rolex hands will stove the world was like Living Laboratory. He began to use it as a testing ground for his watches. From the nineteen-thirties sending them to the most extreme locations. He's supporting explorers. Who Venture into the unknown but the world has changed as the twentieth century unfolds exploration for pure discovery has given way to it peration as a means to preserve the natural world? Rolex continues this legacy of its founder supporting the explorers of day on the new mission to make the planet perpetual the more with the pioneers important ship with Rolex.
43: A Tale of Two Spams
"Stam means different things to different people these days for me. It means robocalls this morning messages. Concerning unsecure shot is now available at your neighbor. Do for others. It might be emails. Ten percent off socks from your favorite online site or an all expense paid vacation getaway. You do remember entering don't you? And then there's this really exciting development spam texts do political ads. Count in my book. Yes however you slice it no one really asks for spam unless it is. You're literally slicing it as in spam the canned pork product. You eat it at home you would eat it out. Would eat it in picnics. You would eat schools when it comes to this. Kind of spam. The one with one hundred and eighty calories per serving. You'll find people who will tell you lab it. Spam Baked Bean and pineapple casserole to me is like the perfect blending of textures and tastes yes they think spam is great so what is in that can of spam. It's comfort food. It's a punchline and it actually does have connection to those unwanted calls in emails. You may think you know all you need to know about spam but do you from business insider. This is brought to you by brands. You know stories. You don't. I'm Charlie Hermit McDonald's today span some people hate it others can't get enough of it but where you stand on span might depend on where and when you grew up. How did spam evolved to have this double life with a can opener? Enhance our producer. Julia press went to find out. Stay with us. Okay Charlie. It's clear you don't know the first thing about spam because you don't open it using a can opener has one of those little poll tap things slough shade right off the Bat. But I guess you won't be surprised to hear that I don't really know a lot about spam. I just always thought it was kind of a mystery meat. And it's not something I've really had so yeah in the continental. Us A lot of people. See it that way but the really fascinating thing about spam is that in Hawaii. It's totally different. It's a lot like Darwin's finches Darwin. Yes Darwin realized that these finches on the Galapagos Islands had all come from the same original bird but they'd actually adopted the different environments on the different islands. That's just like spam on the continental. Us Spam has had this rollercoaster journey from love to hate it too trendy food to laughing stock of the country but meanwhile in Hawaii in the middle of the Pacific on these islands spam has had a straight upward trajectory. So I'm going to tell you. The story of spam twice first on the mainland. Us and then in Hawaii okay. A tale of two spams take it away from the story of spam starts in the tiny town of Austin Minnesota with this company. Called Hormel. Hormel was a meat packing company that had been selling fresh and cured meats since eighteen ninety one but Austin was a really tiny town back in nineteen twenty it only had about ten thousand residents Jay Hormone who inherited his father's company. It started experimenting with more processed foods to sell his product to a wider market. But he was a little disconnected from the everyday struggles of the working man. He lives in a mansion. It was ninety seven room mansion with twenty-seven bathrooms that's Carolyn Wyman who literally wrote the book on Spam. It's called spam a biography and according to Wyman when the Great Depression hit and food got scarce. Jay Hormel was busy trying to sell the public on gourmet French onion soup and tomato Bretagne. They didn't sell at all. Because you know at the time. Forget Gourmet soups fever. Standing and soup lines able to live by nineteen thirty seven though the hormones got with the program they rolled out this new cheap filling. Food option can watch me pork shoulder and ham are taken from this picnic. Boning line and used for the manufacture of spam. What exactly is spam? It's basically me. It's a sure meat product with just a few additives to make it last longer. The raw material is then pumped to the Ken filling machines where the tins are automatically fill and vacuum sealed. People don't realize that spam is cooked in the Kellyanne. This really you know. The ingredients are willing nothing to be afraid of this good meat. That may be the case but as hormones former. Pr chief told. Wyman housewives quote had been raised by their mothers to believe that if you ate meat that had not been refrigerated. You'd be sick. The next day the public might take some convincing so they had to market spam from day. One I it was in magazine ads and then eventually they advertised on the George Burns and Gracie Allen show which is hugely popular. Nothing is there my friends and so with this are poem and by the time they advertising on the show in nineteen forty seventy percent of urban Americans had tried spam but a year later the whole country would be spun off its course and spam right along with it in both nineteen forty one. The Pearl Harbor Naval Base in Hawaii was attacked by Japanese fighter. Planes will implement and the US entered World War. Two twelve million military personnel were sent across the globe to fight and the army had to figure out how to feed them when a soldier is out in the field and away from camp cooks he must carry Russian. They needed something that was compact durable and cheap but also filling brickwork meat for emergency. Rations were developed in the army laboratory for this purpose so the army ordered a bunch of canned meat from Hormel and other companies to send off troops Hormel was also turning out spam to send two civilians in other allied countries. The US was supporting soldiers. Were getting spammed too. But in addition to spam the government had hormel producing a different type of canned meat using a government specified recipe. It was designed specifically for soldiers not grocery store shelves. It was more heavily cooked in salted to put up with the heat of the Philippines and the cold of Ireland. It actually didn't have any ham in it at all. But the troops receiving the me couldn't tell the difference it was all spam to them because spam was already so well established with consumers in the US. All the soldiers like Ted. Oh this is spam and so became this huge public relations nightmare in a way because there were so many large. Initial shipments and distribution issues that soldier. Some soldiers were eating spam or luncheon meat. You know one two three times a day and you're getting really sick of it. Spam was blamed for all. The troops can't meet frustrations. They called it. Hamlet didn't pass physical and the real reason war was healthy. I mean there were some guys that just hated like Raul Baca Martinez who recalled this in an oral history recorded by the University of Texas at Austin gets tired of spam somebody Holland a dog adopted. Throw famine the door and spit it out. The dog didn't want any more spam. That's right even the dog wouldn't eat. It troops started repurposing. It for more inventive uses. They use the Gel to light moisturised. Their hands they used it to grease their guns even to waterproof boots away. It was like comic relief for a Lotta people there. Were jokes were songs. Bam Bam Bam and stuff new call soon then you Asian win you gotTa do got stacks of hate mail from soldiers who said they ate spam during the war and thought it was terrible and this continued until nineteen forty-five when peace was declared and the troops were sent home. The war was over countryman by this point. Ninety percent of hormones can products going to the military or military aid programs abroad and a lot of soldiers wore they never wanted to see spam again and Jay Hormel. He worried that was going to be a casualty of the war so he dreamt up this idea. He'd form a musical group of Sixty Female World War Two vets and he called them the Hormel girls. Here's one of them jockey all tear roth in a video at Hormel Spam Museum. Yes you heard that right. The Spam Museum. It was like a fifty six our weekend. I mean it was. It was a tough schedule but we would get up on Monday and get into our our uniforms. Keeping him from like stewardesses with their. We had our little plastic bags with the dummy products in there. You spam or beef stew and Mary Kitchen Hashing. They traveled the country in thirty five white. Chevy's performing in competitions and marching in parades and selling hormel products door to door so it was a way to kind of you know reform spins image a bit with people that had authority because they were x g is even got their own radio show and the all-girl show music when I'm out girl. It was like program length commercial because they had ads in it but then they also like this skits and things that happened in between ads also talked about Hormel products like they were constantly cooking stuff by active by just five sales of Hormel products in general actually doubled from the time they started in forty six to fifty three so it was successful in nineteen. Fifty-three the show was so popular that it ranked fourth in Nielsen's yearly ratings. But that year would be the last of the Hormel girls. It was just too expensive to keep them going forever. Time for us to say from the hormone girls. Let's get together again soon. But by the time they sing their last song they'd done a great deal to recoup spams image after the war spam wasn't just tolerated it was seen as trendy it actually fit right into the growing processed food industry that was catering to women. Who'd entered the workforce during the war by the fifties and sixties? It was really not just acceptable but it was considered what you should do to use these convenience products that when they were like products of technology our dinner for friend and a noble glazed ham pounding the table out of the Cam Glee in about one hour. Ready to serve. At that time. My mom was worked fulltime as a teacher and she used all these products. And we liked it. You know like when I I had a ham I was like this is like tough. It didn't have the right texture to me. You know to spam is similar. But it's much softer in. I just like it better. It's just the norm for me. There's only one Bam and you can serve Bam for many different Rave Bam royalties family. Spam was making its way onto dinner tables in one thousand nine hundred seventy the two billion can of spam was produced but that very same year. A monty python sketch came out that would make spam a laughingstock again. Some English comics whose parents had oh deed on spam created this kit with a cafe where everything on the menu has families SPAT OUT SPAM. Spanish sausage in Spanish much. Spamming got three and a half minutes. Skit made its way to the. Us It completely upended hormones efforts term spams and Madeira Island and now a new generation was cracking jokes about it in Texas a group of friends launched a spam Ram cooking festival based on the idea that and these are their words not mine. If somebody can make spam edible that would be an accomplishment there have been spam Olympics and spam carving sculpture contests and the second prize was a spam casserole and the third prize was to spam by the nineties. Spam had become shorthand for unwanted and incessant contact so much so that early Internet users adopted it to describe a new phenomenon. Internet junk mail at first. Hormel wanted nothing to do with all this. They REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE. The skit and bitterly fought the idea. That span was anything but a quality product as MEL's former CEO. Jeffrey Ettinger told. Cbs Sunday morning. They might have taken it a little too far. Maybe are low moment worth when we decided to sue them up over a pig character. They claimed quote falsely personifies spam as a nasty pagan brute spat heart of the ball. Hormel lost the suit and its appeal. In fact the judges said the company should be happy. The name was associated with a genuine source of porn. But around this time in the nineties Hormel was starting to see the benefit of embracing this new reputation for better or for worse it started running a new type of ad showing a flustered guy. Tricked into eating spam trying to justify why he'd liked it spam was made with him right so really. This is a hamburger. It ran print ads with the slogan. I can't believe I've just eaten spam. It's sponsored the monty python musical spinoff spam a lot on Broadway hormel spokesperson told me that spam a lot is a great example of Hormel loosening up with the products image here. The company chose to fully embrace spams cultural impact which at that had transcended the product itself. It became so mainstream that it wasn't that threatening anymore. Good or bad it. You're at least acknowledging my existence and to start at that place when you're trying to market a food product. That's not a bad place to be. I mean at least everyone knows it exists. It's one of the few food products is probably as well known by people who don't eat it as why people who do when the new millennium was approaching and some people were stocking up their bunkers. Spam sales shot up. It happened again when the two thousand eight recession hit. And that's how some people like me in the continental. Us grew up thinking of spam. Something you just would not eat unless time we're desperate after the break the story of Spam in Hawaii we're back in the continental. Us Spam spent the last eight years in kind of love hate relationship with much of the public. Meanwhile on the Hawaiian islands the same events that changed how mainlanders felt about spam gave the canned pork product. A completely different reputation. Remember Darwin in those finches. Reduce Your Julia. Press picks up the story to understand. Why spam evolved so differently in Hawaii. You have to get why it was primed to embrace a food like spam before. It even arrived for one thing. These islands are thousands of miles from the nearest landmass which means food access is limited. Everything we have come by if there's any kind of disruption in the transportation we're in the middle of the city you can't jump in your car and drive to the next day people had to make do with what they get. That's Arnold here. Executive Director of the Hawaii Japanese Center and author of the book called cow cow cuisine and culture in the Hawaiian islands. Thira says this limited access has fundamentally shaped the cuisine of Hawaii and another factor is immigration. Starting in the mid eighteen. Hundreds Western settlers saw an opportunity to make money by setting up sugar plantations in Hawaii but much like in the rest of America settlers had brought diseases that wiped out much of the native Hawaiian population and so they looked outside for sources of labor studying China in eventually followed by Japanese Portuguese Korean Filipino. Puerto Rican and others to work on sugar plantations so Hawaii became this very multicultural. Place Plantations became the place where immigrants from all these different countries connected and food was a big part of that because they got to know each other through sharing their lunches so the people who were used to embracing new foods and whatever foods they could get their hands on by the time. The Pearl Harbor Naval Base was attacked by Japanese fighter planes which will live in infamy and the US entered World War. Two Hawaii immediately becomes a war zone. You know it is the point of attack and by being declared a war zone. Civil Liberties are suspended. Military rule takes over more than a million people from troops to civilian workers flooded into Hawaii. Far outnumbering the local population and the people of Hawaii were in a particularly strange spot. They were living under wartime conditions dealing with things like food rations and blackouts along with the rest of the country. But they weren't considered fully American at this time. Hawaii wasn't estate yet. It was a U. S. territory plus its largest ethnic group came from Japan. The very place that adjust attacked the. Us People Hawaii. I recognize that there was this sense of racial hierarchy Robert Khoo. He's chair of the Department of Asian and Asian American studies at Binghamton University and that manifested in various ways. One ways of courses sort of envying the military because the troops stationed in Hawaii were predominantly white so anything associated with military. Then I think had a positive largely positive aspect and one of those foods associated with the military that arrived on the islands along with the troops was spam amounts new lyrical Nina. Can we're talking about really poor people with very little access to good food and spam and other can meet. Did many regards represent sort of this good life better. Quality Food in Hawaii Spam was not a joke or the mystery meat was associated with the luxury and high quality of the US military plus. It was the perfect food for people living in this war zone. Food was being rationed and the fishing industry which had offered important source of protein to the islands was restricted. Because it was mostly run by Japanese fishermen and at the time there wasn't much access to refrigeration. Enter spam this protein-rich cheap non perishable food and as an added bonus. It wasn't great with the basis of Hawaii's diet rights being very bland staple require something highly spicer salted or flavored and spam fit. The bill spam is actually popular and a lot of places like Hawaii that have rice based diets caught climates and a history of US military presence. For Instance Korea Guam and the Philippines are all huge spam fans primarily. I think people love the taste of Spain if you get down to. By nineteen forty-five when peace was declared and many of the troops were sent home from Hawaii. Spam had become a hit our country Thailand but the end of the war did not mark the end of Hawaii's love affair with spam. After all a lot of the food people of Hawaii were eating still came from overseas and relying on the Shipping. Industry was risky. Spam was a good option to keep in the cupboard. Here's here again who wrote a book about Hawaii's cuisine and culture this also reflective of an island mentality people tend to stock up and the Kenna Spam was part of the survival. Kit Bob Masuda. Who grew up in Hawaii during the postwar period was even fed spam at school lunch? I remember as elementary school kid. They serve FAM- address it out and make it like a baked ham. You know with clothes and crushed pineapple and accurately not bad soon. Spam was being incorporated into all sorts of recipes. Some more successful than others ally tried some that were not really inquiry and Condo quorum has written to Hawaii spam cookbooks a spam cake trying to mix spam into a cake. Mix to me. It didn't taste very good. She's an expert on the many shapes and forms. Spam has taken on dinner tables across Hawaii since the war. The funny thing about this cookbook. Is that when people heard? I was writing the thirty sending me recipes. Oh you should try this. My grandma used to make this all. This is still delicious. You have to dry. Hawaii became a US state in Nineteen fifty-nine but as the years went on the perception of spam in Hawaii grew farther and farther away from its reputation in the continental US people in Hawaii new about Monty Python. They knew that in the continental. Us families laughed at but that didn't matter to them. How did you react to that? We'd say oh we like it you know like. I don't know why you don't like it. We saw like Caucasian people and they see as buying spam they go. Ooh How can you eat that? But in Hoy it's just loved. We have emotional ties to spam. It's comfort food. It's food that near Grandma served you. It's a part of our culture in fact that was Condo corm inspiration for writing her cookbook in the first place. We went to a bookstore and on the racks. There was a book called White Trash Cooking and my publisher buddy pass and I both looked at each other and said Spam Cook Today. Hawaii goes through seven million cans of spam each year and there aren't even one and a half million people living there. There's this one particularly popular dish called Span. Masugi it's basically a ball of Sushi rice topped with a slab of fried spam all wrapped in Seaweed Robert Khoo who grew up in Hawaii. It's the most common way it served on the islands today. If you go to seventy seven in Hawaii you can pick up. Masud like you might pick up coffee and donuts or something. Elsewhere is stabbed ubiquitous. You can find spam in tons of different forms in tons of different places throughout the islands. It pops up fast food. Menus spam percentage made with egg Jesus spam on a warm flaky crust. Only at Burger King. Hawaiian it's also incorporated into high end. Cuisine people call it the Hawaiian steak and not ironically. Anthony Bourdain chatted about it with famous Hawaii Chef Mark Gucci. What's your feeling about spam? I love so you're Hawaii. I'm from Holly. I'm born in every year. There's a huge festival in Waikiki. Called the Spam Jan Heyns that attracts tens of thousands of visitors to stages of entertainment. All spam merchandise. He could want for sale and sixteen restaurants operating their spin on spam at this festival. There's no spam carving contest. Nobody's going home with to spam CASSEROLE TROPHIES FOR PEOPLE IN HAWAII SPAM. Isn't the butt of the joke people on the mainland are kind of internal joke among people of Hawaii that the mainlanders thing spam is so gross or so funny or such a mystery meat whereas for People Hawaii. It's something that's quite positive and delicious? In recent years spam started popping up on mainland menus mostly at places run by Asian American chefs or people connected to Hawaii and through these restaurants. More people in the continental. Us starting to look at it as a viable option but for people like cou the only logical reaction to this spam awakening. What took you so long. Like wow finally. Everyone is catching up to us. Because we've been eating spam all alive because it's so delicious but now we see that the mainland are seeing you know spam something. That's good to eat. So that's the evolution of spam in two different places after the break. We merged them and get a taste of span literally. We're back in our New York studio far away from the warmth and the beaches Hawaii. What are you talking about Charlie? I can still taste the salt in the Air Julia. So what is next? So I want to introduce Sam Crozier. She's a good friend of mine from college and the minute she heard I was doing the story. She was excited to show me the world of spam through her is. She actually grew up near Honolulu and she's part Japanese part native Hawaiian so for her spams popularity epitomizes that multicultural aspect of herself and of Hawaii. It's not really linked to any ethnic identity. It's not really linked to any racial identity. It just linked to Hawaii itself and she told me she has particularly strong memories of growing up eating spam in the form of Masugi. Which again is that seaweed wrapped rice ball topped with spam. You've kind of the Hawaii. Pb AND J. Lucky we kind of be the thing that people would bring in their lunchboxes. Everybody would have spam Lewis vs and your juice boxes and your apple in other words spam to be was just another food. Fuelling Sam's hopscotch games and trips across the monkey bars. Something she didn't really think twice about until she left Hawaii to go to boarding school in Massachusetts when she was thirteen. You know when you're in Hawaii and you're growing up with it it becomes like your meat and potatoes. You're just like Oh like what we have once you step away you're like oh my gosh like. I miss that. That was so good and I think that that is where it's become like Hawaii. Pride thing but she does not expect spam to stay. Hawaii's best kept secret forever after all she seen people on the mainland claim once overlooked Hawaii foods as their own. Before I mean. Just look at POCA bowls. Do you think that? Spend MISSISSIPPI. Is The hipster food tomorrow? I one hundred percent do like it's not even that hard of a flavor palate to understand. It's really just good once. You have a spouse to be like you like you get it. This was something that I'd been hearing throughout my reporting I needed to try it to really get it and I wasn't just a Masugi Newbie. I never actually tried spam at all so I asked Sam if we could take a trip to her kitchen. How much does it can't spam cost? Oh probably like a dollar to a paid five twenty nine for this. Wow New York New York city man there gentrifying fan. We started with making a marinade. Okay so we need a quarter cup. Boisture SAUCE OH QUARTER Cup. Soya sauce a half cup. Sugar a half cup sugar. Yeah Sugar and show you well yes sweeter than I realized free one. The sauce was ready. It was time to get spamming the moment of truth you do the honors Julia. Okay I guess Bam Cam it's pinker than I imagined. Yeah it's it's I feel like maybe the color of Baloney it's like uncooked bacon. Yeah but it's like it's already pre cooked. That's very confusing to me. It looks like this. It's like a pink gelatinous mound. Yeah I think it gets less mushy when you cook. It becomes a little bit like the sauce. Like caramelized little bit. Doubtless groundlessly then came the best part. Sam has this Masugi Mold. It's the exact shape of a slice of spam and once we'd cooked up some rice and egg we cut the egg into spam sized pieces. Put the mold on top of a piece of seaweed and pop. Tell the ingredients in. Oh it's so cute. I done all this research and reporting and thinking about spams history but spam the actual food had felt totally distant until I was face to face with it. Sam's kitchen in a way it was kind of like another tale of two spans I grew up knowing spam based entirely on what I'd heard about it to spam cats dogs and even though I'd never tasted it I had a really strong opinion. I didn't know what it was thought that it was probably gross and it was funny and I would never choose to eat it and that experience of knowing spam as this cultural icon is so different from how my friends Sam grew up. She brought spam on picnics eight at her grandma's house. She pulled it out of her lunchbox at school. It was time for me to get to know spam for what it really is not just what I'd heard about it. In other words it was time to eat. Honestly the flavor isn't even very strong of spam. Really Young I mean. There's so much in their egg. The rice it feels like really tacoma balanced meal in there and this is working but with like a sweet soy aftertaste. Do you like it go. Julia press is a producer at brought to you by. We're working on an exciting episode for April Fool's Day. And we want to hear from you. What are your favorite stories about brand name companies and pranks jokes? I'm old enough to remember. Crank calling people and asking do you have Prince Albert in a can even though I had no idea what Prince Albert was. Got Your own story. Share leaves a voicemail at six four six seven six eight four seven seven seven four. Send A voice memo recording to be t Y BE AT INSIDER DOT COM. This episode was reported and produced by Julia. Press with Sarah Wyman and me Charlie Hermit special thanks to make Ohio Shida Thomas Gabbara and Julia mates thanks also to Brian Olsen and Brian Lewis and Hormel Bill. Maas are sound engineer music from audio network. Casey Holford and John delory composed our theme. Our editor is Michaela. Bligh Sarah Wyman. Is Our show. Runner brought to you by production of insider audio.
The Entrepreneurs - Leaders of change
"We are living through an incredible moment and this week as we continue to come to terms with the pandemic gripping our planet, another pressing crisis is once again dominating the news cycle on the streets of cities across the states and right around the world, an important to reality check is taking place on the injustice and inequality in our societies. It's a time when many are rightly up and others are wondering how they can use their platform to lend support and to lead by example. You're listening to the entrepreneurs with me Daniel. Bauge in recent weeks we've talked about messaging around brand and consumer engagement related to the coronavirus pandemic, and the need for strong yet reassuring messages from business. We've discussed how to provide solutions for clients or customers and how to see opportunity in a downturn. This is of course something very different. Nonetheless, in recent days we've seen again that brands and companies are joining the conversation and are speaking out, but what is leadership at a time like this for more I reached out to Allen, so then the founder and CEO of brand strategy and Design Consultancies Sylvan labs here now is Alan with this week's? I'll bed on. How personal experience informs leadership during moments of crisis. When. The world of business built up the idea of leadership like God like quality. Their books on leadership schools of leadership and self proclaimed leaders of leadership, and while the ideas, important progress and community many times leaders don't fully appreciate their responsibility at times of crisis, health crises, economic crises or social crises like what we're going through today. Constituents looks leaders to make sense of their context to unite each other around a collective vision and to inspire proactive action leadership is mostly easy until the stakes become. Hi, it's mostly a privilege until it becomes a duty to symbolize a purpose greater than oneself. And in this moment right now. Leaders have a job to do. This is the life we've chosen. Business leaders find themselves negotiating a health crisis that has uprooted ways of working slow productivity and threatened the health and livelihood of our teams, ultimately spawning and economic crisis. Unlike anything. You've ever seen putting everything. We took for granted every asset contract into jeopardy. Meanwhile the US yet again is reckoning with a pandemic that precedes covid, nineteen, institutional enduring and overly excused racism. And unlike the coronavirus that disease is in the bones of this country, it's in the undeniable history and president of this country as I read this aloud right now in Brooklyn. New York I can hear our collective exasperation and anger reaching a fever pitch echoing through the streets. Again. And his during this crisis that I've been reminded of my unique position as an African American leader of a diverse team, I've realized that my personal experience has the power to color so to speak this moment for everyone, my clients, my teammates, whether or not they look like me or they share the same experiences me. Through my personal experience that I can help the issue of police, brutality and institutionalized racism feel more accessible, urgent and visceral. My position and perspective on the crisis can't be divorced from my role as a leader, and instead by leaning into my standing at point of view, perhaps uniting and inspiring, those around me can be more effective, my personal unique experience. My life has made my efforts towards leadership easier. Dare I say better? You can't learn about your individual experience in a school or a book. It's personal by its very definition. It's through our vulnerable. Embrace of what makes us distinct that we can lead better. Imagine what leadership can mean when we stop impersonating an ideal or objective archetype and acknowledge and put forward are unique selves. It's what made female leaders so powerful unnecessary during the me too movement for example or imagine leaders with military backgrounds during wartime or leaders with backgrounds in science during this climate crisis. Our leadership is extension or vehicle for our uniqueness, our otherness. It's what makes leadership powerful. It's the life we've chosen. Allen Silvan CEO and founder, of Strategy and Design Consultancy Sedan. Labs in New York City. My thanks to land, you can listen back to my conversation with him on episode, four hundred and forty surviving crisis and our full conversation from twenty eighteen, one of my favorite shows date on episode, three hundred and sixty five. Throughout the pandemic so many of us have come to realize how important the shops and businesses in the neighborhoods where we live and work our to our daily lives under lockdown. We've come to miss the small pleasures of life like when we can pop into our favorite cafe for morning, coffee or swing by the newsstand, stop opera drink on the way home or pick up dry cleaning businesses helped to make a community this way. No, but how often do we stop and think about what the greater impact of a thriving and successful local business is for the surrounding community? They can provide more than just provision and services of course, but also jobs and economic stimulus that can indeed boost the fortunes of many, and what about giving others the confidence to also set up off. Today we'll focus on one small place I lot. The Island off the west coast of Scotland is of course famed for one thing whiskey. But it's a place that has struggled in many senses. Not long ago, it was deemed a community on the edge, and not meaning on the edge of the world, but rather at risk of economic collapse there are many factors, but in our globalised world with big box stores, where much is imported many small communities just like this have moved away from what they're great at being self sufficient and making and growing things right at home right now on the island there is a shining star in the community of Port Charlotte Mothball degeneration ago, but resurrected in two thousand and one. The Brooklyn distillery has been on a mission ever since to boost the fortunes of its surrounding island community much of. Of the focus has been on a very popular and important topic these days, sustainability, and to show their commitment and progress last month Brooke Lampey became the first Gin and whisky distilling company in Europe to achieve certified. Be Status, a set of binding policies which verify social and environmental performance. Today we meet CEO Douglas Taylor, who says the company is inching ever closer to being an all operation meaning everything from the water, they source and the barley they grow to the distillation, and bottling of the spirits happens at home. All that means local jobs, and as here Taylor says he hopes cloudy can help drive an entrepreneurial spirit on the Scottish island, as well to help the communities self sufficiency. was closed in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety four, and it was resurrected in two thousand by group of investors investors were driven by or came from a linebacker, and and they had this understanding of terroir and understanding of agriculture, and not to bring that forward into the world of whiskey dot tighten. It just didn't exist wasn't something that was considered relevant. Atone is all about marketing all by I. Guess in toxin and Stack heads and one. Thing, so we'll happen was. A Long Journey of probably the first ten years of time to establish what into flooded meeting for for gradients and Roland. Radiance, how much to be matter, the ultimate who going to type of barley that conditions that you'd see in different is Scotland. They also were able to bring in their relationships with the white makers from Franz. Because there were there were special in Burgundy so. So we had accessed incredible casts as well, but it was interesting because the history of enclosed for so long in the beginning that that can fame of cloudy was based around a vision, but not necessarily a Likud, because it was distilling something that wouldn't be released for the future whilst sailing for cash flow, something was distilled in the past by the forefathers distinctive view like. An in that mix all of this split, it was there that was inhabitants when a disability was was recast, had a new cask journey new. And I think that's because historically cloudy was an ingredient component that is going into blame. These whiskies rather than a single malt, and it soon right so the Catholics were not necessarily fill of life in giving life to the to the spit it could on there was a great recasting of probably somewhere between five and six as Catholics, and that's where you got the group stories about rum casks or Bordeaux casks, orbiting casks and sweet wine casks, Cognac casks and shady casks hike providence. Seats that we were working with or had relationships with, but the thing was to to try and establish relationships with farmers, so there was no history official history commission history of Barbie, and going on aliens, and again this this notion of Appalachian Control Air this notion of a sense of place or the idea that barley should come from. The island didn't really exist. And of course, the the farmers they agent drilling troll's dealing with beasts. They were dealing with data so slowly, but surely. One farmer through to this year so almost twenty years of of relationship building between farmers and photos on any lot, actually over fifty percent of barley comes from the south. So that gives you an idea that high trouble in nature of our nine disturbs on oil. You know we're the. We're the ones that are mainly focusing on trying to establish the notion of single farm, single field, single vintage singer state, but it's bigger than that. I think the biggest point is about understanding. Understanding Agriculture and maybe come on talk about it later, but the notion of sustainable agriculture trump rotation and research and development, rather than just building a marketing story by their barbeque comes from Iowa. There's a a number of bigger questions by highway farm at the impact on the vitamin, D invites Allante, healthy tuition, health, and what we should be doing as leaders in the industry to try and force a change of Maine set up to juicers, point of view and also from. A consumer's point of view as well or point of you. People will know I life if they know a little bit about single malt whisky, but you know the the journey you're talking about the store. You're talking about a SORTA reconnecting the whiskey to the land and the roots and the place that's a fascinating one, and beyond marketing as you say. How is that journey gone? You talked about some of the cast collaborations that you have done, but since you joined the company. What's that sort of been like in this direction? You're heading. Being here sort of half of the Germany, so we think about the resurrection of the Body Stilian we often talked about it. As the never ending project knows unfinished counselor, striving to to achieve discovering to push for new guidry's an a twenty two year window Jones. Almost ten years ago, even ten years ago. I think the idea about. Providence Daddy terroir idea by ingredients changing the flavor of the spit or the idea that it was important to Ghana. Whiskey company had. A! SNUS OF SOCIETY OF VITAMIN TEN years ago. That was absolutely against the grain. I think there's a real rising tights of international spirits. Companies Hydro Vince, but it's companies that are that moving in that direction is much more widely understood night, and it's much more likely documented or more commonplace and I think. One of the biggest talks about journeys opening the eyes of the consumer sort opening the eyes of the clients there because you don't know, I've a big believer in you. Don't know what you don't know. So. The message that is being peddled by industry is only about age, and only about Cask. Then by nature received. Wisdom says we think may about agents only about cask? So until you start to get first-mover, you know we used to think herself as the nuts before you then get first followers to come on board and. One of the most important things is that we've never had a vision to do this just own. Personal Business Gain as always be a mission to try and raise awareness to drive change in the industry and drive change in captivity. On what we see a number of different stocks ups, number of the stocks have come from. Those entrepreneurs expedients of companies like cloudy. Actually people have come and visited cloudy and being inspired bibles happening here and going away, and setting up in whether waistcoats for Medica for Sweden or whether it's it's Ustralia, so from that point to in in the tenure I've been there I've seen a massive massive shift in awareness and a massive massive shift in expectation and the whole. The whole point transparency I think comes in. In new mix in there somehow in terms of transparency of operations and transparency of ingredients and transparency about how your company runs, how you treat your people, and we know what we expect more for buying into high value, and I'm cautious about using the word blood sugar, but I think you know if you can buy a skit, twenty five dollars or twenty five, suddenly thinking about buying an everyday jaundice twice not. Fifty points then. There's a bit as a sense of. A sense of luxury attributed to that I'm because of that is an expectation. Why should I this one? Why should I entered into your world? One thing that we've been able to do because it's been a long term commitment is we've been able to shape that cloudy world, so people come in at discover us. They don't get the full picture immediately that it can start to scratch under the surface, and you can have more than a superficial relationship with with what we do, which is more rewarding for awarding for? Funds of the ground. It's quite interesting. You talk about moving the industry forward. I imagine. You don't look at other. distillers pop up in this sort of craft boom that we've seen in recent years as competition, but also as companies that can help. Drive the industry forward, and where it's going in and being a little bit more sustainable, and about where it's from, we live in this interesting age where consumers really want to know about how things are made where they're made. You talk about transparency there as well I wonder. If that sort of factors into the conversations you have had, and how that drives the changes you are making people may be interested to hear about what Port Charlotte is like and what it's like to live there and work. They're all those things. What do you think of that? Yeah. It's nice of you. Can real real place real people think is a big bit of the magic that you mentioned something about the craft and again we're cautious around the association with traffic because I. Think Craft was also one of these ideas that was jumped on by marketeers on there was a lot of false crafted portrayed in pedal. Trust the different markets and And I. Read this article. The said there's such a booming craft that even some of the craft brands that are starving to still put it and I thought I, can I. can that Com shake come after the boom? So tells you the separation and I and I think is overused in craft. His night also misused as well and we've got to be careful. About that so I think the point you're making a Port Charlotte. Place Waltz link till if there is a really important piece of a replacement bill, people and I think that then feeds into who you are, as as a business, or who you are as a brand in the way that you communicate so depending on how you want to communicate you can. You can commission huge marketing agencies to create these wonderful big sexy round campaigns. Feature the products and featured a big show of the landscape, or you can be more like housing can be more more organic and more natural, and you can. You can set up global alliance seasonable partnerships, and you can portray daily life that is going on out the distillery, and you can portrayed daily connections in partnerships that you've got across the world and doc again comes back to the discovery of the of the world of the company or the world of that not that brand so we do like to feature Port Charlotte we talked about that. We are allowed. We featured most of the staff members in the campaigns, and we talk about who they are and what they do and. I think that's the that's is being used no with other with other guns and things, but the way you do it I think has got to fit into a bigger narrative and a bigger story in a bigger point of discovery about who we are in a longer term mission, you can form a much more solid. Appreciation for something. When you feel here, legitimate isn't who. And it's not easy because. I la the island. It's a remote island off the west coast of Scotland so. It's difficult to get there. It was up until recently designated by the Scottish government as a community on the edge, and I didn't mean geographically and economically and. I think to be able to do something for. which really is what's happened with the cloudy stories? The resurrection of something was shut down, but the decisions Denver made. Could. have been will distill could. Still Spit it sunny and then ship it to mainland, and everything else will happen on the mainland. Everything else will happen. Somewhere else wouldn't have be to benefit of alien soap during the Titan. When I levels was in its hesitate, Gatiss needs took twenty years ago, decisions were made cloudy to say. Well what if we built an economy around farming agriculture barley impulsive? We built an idea that we couldn't offload their belts, but it matured at somebody else who Mathu Olien Pool. Actually we would create a bottling facility so they could create jobs for people. Who then move into create careers for people because you then start to build different functions and events start to build teams at the center of gravity is absolutely on the island, and youngsters can come and join us and be successful through their forgetting the business and ended up working in countries like Singapore working. London working in New York, but they've adventure so for me. All of hangs together as an incredible vision been very difficult to achieve. But through. Supposedly zones we've managed to get to. Talk to me a little bit about where you are i. know a bit of that vision is to be all islets and make sure that you're doing everything close to home and in art, helping to rebuild the economy, so we're actually. Are you out in doing that? We're very close to having the dream. All I lo- operation, so we're there. We are still in their shooting their bottling running Eric Communications from there. We are a hundred and two people, one hundred one people and I would say eighty five percent of the teams based. On the island itself the one piece that's missing. Is the missing piece of the Jigsaw is the maltings so the moment we malt in the northeast? Scotland with our partner Baird smelting south near inverness, so if you think the geography their. Distance to travel and it's not necessarily the right thing to do for your barley. Is Isla to take? To northeast of skull molten bring it back. I think it makes sense when you're sourcing barley from the northeast, some of our types of or some of the farming methodologies that they'll be partnered with Super Ganic. Barley comes from the northeast of Scotland, said molting of their could make sense. The plan was to develop their own maltings on disability within the footprint. And again that will. In the sense, close the loop fall. The oil process oil project to that point. Obviously there must be some great pride and breathing new life into what is a heritage company of from the nineteenth century, but I'm just curious about the impact on Isla. What's the actual impact on? And Industries if we were to go there now. So the island is really animated, unexciting to modern. visit me as you go what a ferry takes just a road to to to. To get there. That are not nine cents to be a living distilleries there. There's there's a bubbling two-dozen industry. There's great hotels and things that are good visitor attractions in terms of museums and things that expressed it. The culture of Island from from years go by the history. Vaillant invites go to. It is today I. Think what it still lacks a big believer in this as as are. Are Many of my friends and colleagues. Claudia's it think it lacks the Knicks degree of entrepreneurialism, which used to exist, so the the Molt, star, Baker or the Deity of the abattoir or the small brain company, getting stronger I mean some of these things are there so that as an abattoir? This being open and there used to be many many days are not lead anymore with importing love. Land for New Zealand coaching vegetables, but we could be going much more so there could be more farmers market of great local. start-ups they're doing already I. Think the next phase under British are toddler's been going for many years being taken over by another group of young or not so young. Some of them starts cans, but I think the next phase is a by. That Ireland not become. Only reliable on or only famous because of the stealing and the sculpture ski industry because I think that's a mistake, and I think it could be much more dynamic, and it should be much more dynamic thing of us as I mean I'm not from I am Scottish from the west coast of Scotland of. There's a lot of Pado as from from these colonies grew up. That the self I think we need to try and promote and stimulate and be there to to to sustain the next wave of new business stock lost that that will reduce our dependency on reliability on importing everything from somebody else so I had to be paid to become more self sufficient as brutally. Particularly to benefit. Future Just to go back a little bit. We talked about you know living your philosophy and going beyond marketeering. You are announcing now that you're becoming certified B Corporation. That is fantastic news. Talk to me a little bit about how important that is in helping and helping the company of grow that vision. I think. It's really important to say that this is so. This is a huge moment for us to get that. He carbs application to be the first Gen Whisky distilling company Youtube to be the single Malt Scotch stability of course implications, not for the castigate, but also and I think importantly it's a validation for us that the decisions that we've made our projects that we've launched or the tight cove initiatives. We've been trying to build. Build a business have been the right things to do because this sampler bigger purpose again you know we've been looking back at the time line in the decisions that we need to build our own bowling. pollock trade jobs, the community that despite to two thousand and two or star organic barley in two thousand and four partnerships with the University of highlands and islands in two thousand five to bring ancient landrace. He's to life. There have been the bijender skiing. We that we tried in two thousand and ten to be failed didn't work our I clean. Energy program was an absolute failure us a fortune, if I, in the last few years we've changed things like improved pensions improved holidays. Workforce's management level more than fifty percent female. All of these things together have been step-by-step stage by stage, but. To go through the process of be fixation as we have done, and it's taken a year and a half from discovering a few years ago. It's understanding that the place that it has in the world understanding. That, there was a realization that the values. We have the business completely lanes with. The Kirk. Movement so, so we could. Join up a you know that that expression be shoulder to shoulder with other leaders business to US businesses a force for good mental. That can a physician of. To have a degree of in vitamin insolence, social consciousness as well as just making decisions based on Prophet, so. Not On. It. Journey you look at all the way through a vote knows this amazing combination girl to creating about networking working with other business leaders to. Use Use the code of business as a force for good Douglas. This has been fascinating. Thank you for your time. Now before we go, it's time to answer. One of our listener questions, which comes from Palo Mendez in Portugal, funny, enough a perfect one for Douglas to answer, but came in right after I spoke to him, so we called up Douglas again to ask for some advice here I is the question. I Daniel. Thank you for these unity. My name is Paula Mundus. My wife and I. Just launched va spirits a craft distillery in Madeira Island Portugal. We rely on tasting room sales and on foot tourism as our major avenue. What inventors like Allah's small and family owned? Do to overcome disturbed shortage. We are facing. A great question from Polo Menendez I think I think is an important topic. The on premise is going to struggle for a long time. humint screen the bone spike at different rates and different countries. Some businesses me never bone spike at all other businesses me open up. I think consumer confidence is going to be play a big part of as well. How many? Are What confidence level is for consumers to go back into the entree to the to the bars into the restaurants, but I think the biggest pressure will come for start up. Brewing Company's distilling companies will be arraigned their tourism onsite, so the visitors that come to the disabilities in the British were number of these smaller businesses rely heavily on the income that comes from that and I. Wonder if that's where we're going to see the biggest pressure in the medium term with visitor numbers dropping. In tourism, defecting the revenue that stops and small craft beverage ventures. are able to bring in. So I think we'll rely much more heavily on commerce offering direct to consumer ECOMMERCE and EVT's will be the thing that closes the gap at one close the gap completely, but within that I'm sure we'll find innovative new ways of creating expediencies creating tastings. Finding a way to get our products through to consumers that were previously. Explored as federally I, think the expediencies thing is a really interesting point as well because we will be able to have direct to consumer engagement through their through their phones through their their devices where the wheel to have almost a virtual expedience of visiting one of these disabilities are. I think that's what it will move. That will move digital move into ecommerce on the short term at an hopefully bones. His bike to it used to be endured course, but we'll also have these new innovative methods to Hans to continue to build a business going forward. Great advice there. My thanks to Douglas and to Palo for his question. Don't forget to get your questions in for next week's expert. GUESTS QUESTION MONOCLE DOT com. That's all for this week. Show my thanks to Christie. Evans who mixed and edited. They show up Daniel Beach thank you so much for lessening and goodbye.
Wednesday 10 June
"Remember brexit negotiations are still going though should be going nowhere. We'll hear why the talks remain stock at a standstill. The Belgian government has idea to get its domestic tourism sector back on track and London's commercial art galleries. Get set to open their doors. MARKLE's editors tackle those topics today on the Late Edition here on monocle twenty four. Hello and welcome to the late. Edition I'm Tom. Edwards delighted. Sam joined today by Markle's fans at its at Christiana Mac and Markle's Kelch at it's gotTa. Good evening t both good to have you with US Chris. How do we find you? You've avoided may on the late edition I failed for for a couple of days, but I'm sure you've you're raring to go in this Wednesday edition. While to be honest. I have my reasons Tom Because I've been moving. I've moved a whole one single floor up from the basement apartment in my building the ground floor apartment, which I'm sure many listeners can understand is in this time, especially a huge improvement because I have big windows now that I can look out outside while I'm working from home as many of us still are to some degree so I am kind of over the moon about that. Even if the weather is turned it here in London, and it's a little grayer, but it's still so much brighter than my basement so I really can't complain I like it Chris. You're literally moving on up. which is a good story. You have moved house. Have you lost twenty four s? Sadly not no actually. I'm pretty comfortable in my herbs setup and I feel like anything that I say now will inevitably look like sound a lot less optimistic. What Chris just giving us and having just discovered that he spent three months in a basement I feel I feel bond and. They go. Let's let's let's say if we want to get signed. The is fairly doom and gloom. We only need to mention the word brexit. T be forgiven for having forgotten about it in recent weeks with corona virus civil unrest of course then. The knee psycho, but negotiations between the UK and the EU block are still ongoing, although the pace is well, blake sealed to say the least both sides remain very entrenched over few key issues with a deadline to extend negotiations foster approaching. It's that same specter again? A no deal exit for the UK looking increasingly likely early at Nemi O'Leary your correspondent for the Irish Times explained the primary sticking point between London and Brussels the major one I think is what's called the level playing field, which means that the EU doesn't want to give fridge companies easy access to EU markets if they have an unfair advantage over e, you companies so for example if If, they're able to slash labor standards, environmental standards. Get help from the government in this kind of thing. It wants Britain to guarantee. That won't be the case or else. There will be some kind of barrier to e-markets situation on obviously to London horrifying prospect, because it's getting away from rules that have been set by Brussels was the whole point of breakfast, but that's the choice that they are. Courtney faced with. Leary talking to earlier. Kiara strikes me as sort of grimly predictable. Seen this level playing field, being sticking point an answer that question is everybody would in. Everybody said he was gonNA. Be You know an impossible? Circle, to two square and yet we still have Boris Johnson bullish about known extending sticking to this narrative getting brexit don he's just bearing head in the sand, isn't it? I think so I've been then wasn't not basically the principal with which he did. Win The election anyway I think. The the sense of concluding this narrative that we all have become so extraordinarily. Retiree about is because Because that that sentiment dot statement of getting brexit done which I had. Forgotten for the last three months has always been refrain and. I don't think that ultimately the sticking points right now are any different to what they would have been three months ago or even when the negotiation talks were happening on the threes May's stewardship, I think the only way for Boris Johnson to get out of this impasse is to somehow qualify at the idea of putting an end to this woman's disaster as just a positive in itself, so taking a lot more compromising just for the sake of. Moving, on which. Is a terrible state of affairs, but it might be the only way out of an impasse. That's clearly being very much unsolvable for years. We'll to that point Kushtia. It isn't it feels insoluble and I wonder. Has Anything really changed? Since this was the daily narrative that everyone came back to has the pandemic will have an impact. It's clearly delayed. The negotiations taken taking people's off the bull, but you know the economy's were already contracting at the end of twenty nine hundred ninety. Now it's GONNA be a lot deeper with looking at a recession. Does, that change the fundamentals does it make the UK more or less willing to consider no deal exit? While Tom this there's sort of different schools on this I would say from what I've been reading and hearing. I mean the obvious impact as he mentioned is time. The timetable was already ambitious. It's far more difficult now for both the EU and Britain to reach a deal by the end of this year. But the political dynamics and the economic ones that you mentioned I think are far harder to predict exactly where this is going to go. Sadly in some ways I think the reality is that it's. Hard. The resolve on both sides of the equation also within the UK I mean what I mean by. That is if you look at remainders for example. Of the pro EU camp and Britain well. The Corona virus puts things into perspective, doesn't it highlights the importance of global cooperation you cooperation, it makes issues like brexit seem like small potatoes Rian the compared to what we've gone through over the last few months. But then at the same time if you look at the Brexit camp, the brexit tears the fractured nature of the response that we've seen to the corona virus perhaps underlines just how separate Britain is from the rest of the EU it gives you this greater feeling of. Let's just get brexit done as Carrie said and Boris Johnson says this idea. Let's just get on with it. And in the same way economically you can make these two so to strange different arguments. You can argue that. We've gone through such a massive economic shock that what is a no deal in comparison to that some of the Greg's tears, and some even on Downing Street are sort of thinking by. Some of their thinking that's that's actually where they're going. Saying well I know deal will not be if the economy's already tanking by ten to fifteen percent and we just need to get on with this. And we can't worry and that. Since about the economic consequences, they'll sort of be folded into. The impact of the pandemic, but at the same time you can slip that you can flip that around, and you can have many businesses saying they don't want this. Me Right of Corona virus. And just when they're recovering from coronavirus to then having no deal, brexit that again puts them in an even tougher position than they were before so. I really don't know where to go with all of that. That's what I'm saying. It's it's very. There's all these different schools, and I think at the end of the day two things one. It comes down to businesses, and it'll be interesting to see just how vocal they are. As the deadline nears kind of as they were the last time we were near to a no deal, Brexit, will they be loud again? Will they be saying? We cannot have a no deal at this point in time. Time? I think that's going to be quite crucial. Because at the end of the day, the interesting thing to me as well as Boris Johnson would have an easy out right now to delay right practically speaking, it's easy for him to say. The pandemic has forced the timeline for everybody to be shifted. He seems determined not to use that as an excuse and that to me at least says that for the moment. Nothing has really shifted in this debate that we've been having for so many years. Well brexit talks, maybe frustrating Brussels and everyone else, if correspondence up to be listened to, but at least there is a bit of good news coming out of Belgium. Government has recently announced will be offering up a free ten trip rail pause to every resident of the country. The government hypes initiative. We'll get Belgians travelling around a land giving its domestic tourism industry, a much-needed shot in the arm to rebel is the producer multiple twenty. Fours the Urbanism Program and she brought us up to speed on Belgium's plan and bid to get people moving, and you know kind of boost the domestic economy for sure and. And as the summer season is so kind of on hold exactly what that will mean for tourism around Europe, it's the way to make people travel within the country. Now I feel quite jealous about this I wouldn't mind ten journey rail pastor, even within the UK so now this will be the residents all residents in Belgium. You'll be able to use that between the first of July and the first of December, so there's ample time for them to be able to travel around, and it can also take their bikes on the train for free, which also is a good incentive. This is kind of A. Good initiative as the country eases out of lockdown, trying to get people moving around and keeping safe social distancing at the same time, this comes as well as European Union has unveiled their own action plan to reopen internal borders. So maybe we'll see if this well pass will also allow travel outside of the national borders in Belgium or not nautical twenty four. Talking Chris Rock you're the affairs editor at Monaco You keep your eye on all sorts of. Clever governmental civic initiatives and across the wider block. This is by no means, presumably a unique move by Belgium. Lots of governments are trying to find ways to get people moving. Get domestic tourism moving. We know the Shang- zone instead sort of reopening. Cautiously, but in in the days ahead, there are plans afoot. Are you convinced by by what you what you see and here? Well, it's interesting. How many different types of plans are afoot as you say when you have your eye on these things, everyone has a slightly different approach to how they can get their domestic tourism or their international tourism sector moving again. Belgium's plan for a ten ticket rail pass is unique for what it is, but there are a ton of other measures. And all of them, really around all of them really amount to giving money to people in some different type of form. Right to get them out of the House to get them. Out and about and traveling somewhere in there's things from small things like in Vienna offering vouchers to go to a restaurant to eat. There's there's simple things like Canada. For example repurposing a fund for international tourism to its provinces, so that provinces can do more take that money and do what they want with it in order to attract people to travel within the country. There's vouchers from Japan and Switzerland. Both of them are looking at offerings daily vouchers around two hundred euros. Switzerland wants to give about two hundred years to people in order to travel within Japan is also looking at something like that for domestic. Tourism Mexico is offering Free Hotel Nights Sicily's offering to pay half of your flake costs. If you come there, and then, there's also health ones which are interesting. Iceland in Portugals, Madeira Island are offering free corona virus tests to anyone who comes Cyprus is offering to pay for your healthcare if you were to get sick from corona virus. So yes, there's a tons of different measures out there. That are happening and also to one of the things. Carl mentioned aside from showing and opening up. It's interesting. It's been interesting to see how different neighbors and key countries are sort of working together in this weather that's Austria and Germany that were sort of quickest to open up because Australia's so dependent on. On German tourists whether it's the Baltic nations sort of teaming up to have little three way travel corridor there before the rest of the EU opened up or whether it's organizing trains between the Czech, Republic and Croatia to get checks all the way down to the Croatian coast, which they consider in some ways, almost the second summer home or summer home I should. Should say so. Yes, there's a whole ton of initiatives out there. I think at the end of day. It really just comes down to providing whatever incentives you can to ease that that feeling that pressure a little bit on people to make them happier to travel again. Well I guess that's the RUB is name Kiara into come to you? Ask Her setting and. And, people throwing a lot of solutions around the throwing a lot of money at the problem clearly, but it's one from perspective. Do you feel the block? The wider European bloc is actually ready to reopen its internal borders and I don't really mean that from an administrative point of view, but you know socially in terms of the health and wellbeing of People A. genucel culturally ready for. That contracting up the stage. It's interesting actually. because. We will have to see how the hospital industry response to this. Really borders can open and of carriers can stop flying Flanagan's but. But. Then what other hotels on the ground doing do feel like they're actually receiving sufficient amount of bookings to guarantee something that makes financial sense for them. I was reading this morning. Stotts about the Italian situation, which I think is relevant, because obviously it is quite ahead of the UK at the moment. and Italy has reopened its restaurants balls on the eighteenth of May, and by now I think around over ninety percent of the country's restaurants and bars, a backup and running. However. That's not the same with with hotels I think the figure hovers around sixty percents still shocked. The most, interestingly, despite most of the restaurants, being opened again the revenues, the intake is actually fifty percent. Less than what they normally would have done. So there is proof you know. You can reopen the restaurants, but if people don't feel really quite ready to come or the the spacing measures, mean that the intakes quite low is actually going to be sustainable in the in the long run. I think as more. Lockdown limitations are lifted an Osmo borders open up over the course of June I think by the end of June. We might be having a very different conversation when flying into. Greece be much of a problem, but also we have to consider that so long as countries like the UK maintain quarantine measures on the way back into the UK the travel sectors, going to be really hindered by by something like thought say as long as they're all different approaches for different countries i. think there's also going to be some degree of. Suspicion and a little bit of skepticism still. I say I. DO think that conversation could be very different in amongst time but looking ahead to for example August, which is the height of summer. Holidays in Italy for example in a period when much of the income for hospitality players has made. Only I say only because it is relevant. Only eight percent of hotels expect to be reopening then, and that's really peak season, so even though those twenty percent the aren't taking the punt. must really be feeling a sense of deep deep deep uncertainty. Well not deep uncertainty in those restrictions on travel have affected almost every sector ought by no means. When coronavirus temporarily shut the doors global galleries, the whole art word wasn't something scrambled to move on blind. In recent months, galleries from New York London unveiled plenty of Clever online initiatives from digital viewing rooms to zoom facilitated studio visits to try and attract viewers, but starting next week. London's commercial spaces can finally begin to reopen net doors to actual in person visitors albeit with restrictions in place. A good friend of twenty four is Austin, Ward. He's the head of content. Listen Gallery. And he told the globalist earlier today about the reopening, and about whether these new digital innovations in the arts sector could be here. Here to stay here. He is by worth a moment about twenty years ago when everyone discussed the exciting innovations of net art and the first works online that we're actually digital only, but I think we're just learning the ways now to catch up with the fact that people do live the majority of their laws online, and we have to reflect as well. We can't pretend that people may not want to travel for the foreseeable future may not want to go to office, so we have to be able to open up to the world in different ways and using that portal as primary exhibition space for now. Seen won't talking to US Elliott Kelsey talking there about people's read since round traveling a reluctance to I guess. Maybe that's counterintuitive to degree. Want one does a lot of people think this could be desperate to get out back into the world, but. Looking at the art world specifically Aussies right because they've been wrestling with the increasing influence of online without an auction spaces, commercial spaces public It's not going to change everything. You don't have a crystal ball, but if you did what would it be telling you? Well I! Do think that the fact that. Online digital art has existed for quite a few years and hasn't managed to completely on is thrown physical arts. The way we know it is in itself a bit of a sign I don't think that the entirety of the commercial art world's model will be upended because for two months, people couldn't go physically to galleries. I think it will have an effect, and it will probably tempt those people who approached buying off commercially in a way that is more investment like. into so in a way, that's probably more practical for them. But for those who collect for different reasons. And offer mixed reasons. Seeing, an artwork in Passan is still I think. Just a replaceable as an experience to. To find out whether you do like it when you do one for it to a company going forward whether your I I'm buyer or collected, that is amassing a collection that they wanNA show in their own foundation. I do think that. This situation has. Forced galleries to rethink is how they need to use their digital space because. There are lots of galleries have taken to their online presence as basically you know shopping carts, and so the experience of watching of going to an exhibition online is basically like scrolling through. A page where you can just put something in your shopping trolley and then go head to check out and I think the galleries that. Have used digital works appropriately online will be able perhaps even to feed that conversation from a content point of view, and how the work can evolve in lockstep with what the gallery can show because digital are ultimately depends on the media in which is shown in so the more the galleries websites evolve more digital art, itself can evolve. I think that's an exciting development. Saying that and I think that the physical fair has a place. In Our habits. Obviously, there were lots of conversations already about whether the mega outfit still had relevance in our current. The there were too many offers and the clerk proliferation about fares on the calendar and I think the ultimate response in the term will be that though smaller art fairs that we did keep seeing proliferating will actually come in quite handy right now, because maybe yes, people don't feel like they can travel. All the way to Miami own. Across. At the moment. Maybe they will feel like bail. Go to their own deals offense. They had snubbed because they had bigger fast. Goto or maybe. Not ferron just the country nearby it could lead to a new crop, or at least a leading crop of smaller galleries are accessible, mulkey rated, and I can prove a turning point for those organizations definitely. Christina, we've been hearing about your new son flooded wolves of your above ground domicile now the London slightly easing up, really be beating to a gallery up some extensive works to feature on those aforementioned walls, or is this something else you're? You're dreaming of doing as we. As we, as we head offline back into the real world while. Yes I could talk reams and reams about my apartment but I. Don't think too. Many people want to hear about that from the listeners side. I will say yes I've thought a lot about so the couple of the things that I did before the lockdown started here was go to a couple of museums, and that's sort of what. Is imprinted in my memory if you will going to the. Tutankhamun Exhibition at the Saatchi Gallery the Andy Warhol Exhibition at the tape. Modern those are the kind of things do have a big impact on your life when you're able to go out to some of these local exhibitions museums. It's the kind of things that I think for me at least there. That simply cannot be replicated by watching them online or digital galleries. I think what Karen talks. About is very interesting particularly when it comes to the purchasing of art, I can imagine that a little bit more perhaps if you have a really good website, if you have good innovative ways to show, the art works that you're going to purchase, that can make a difference for me, though in terms of actually the experience of art, the experience of exhibitions and art effects. Nothing can replace just just going out there and seeing them in person, so I am looking forward to doing that again. At some point soon. The only other thing I would add to that, perhaps on a more general note is sports. Of course I'm a big tennis fan for example and I was sad to see things like Wimbledon. Get delayed until next year, but that too I think it's good to watch on TV like watching TV, but nothing can quite replace the atmosphere of being in a crowd. Watching a sports event whether it's football or tennis or baseball or else so I'm very much looking forward to that, that will take a bit longer. Sadly I'm sure Tom. You feel that as well but It will take a little bit longer before we can get back to something like that, but. I'm looking forward to that day. I. Share Your Anticipation it'll be. Worth waiting for we have to hope Chris. Christie Mac and Kiara Amela. A pair I think you'd agree old masters, both and priceless, of course thanks to them for being with us on the late edition today. Thanks to you to ask. Judy manages steph genuine and San impact money so much here in London. We'll be back with another edition of the lights edition tomorrow at the right time until that goodbye. Thanks for being with us.
Friday 21 February
"You're listening to multiples house. Few broadcast on the twenty first of February. Two Thousand Twenty on monocle twenty four. This is Monica House view coming up today. A measurement of the fallout from Mike Bloomberg meltdown in Las Vegas. A long look at Monaco magazines new Australia's special now weekly reflection on what? The last seven days have taught us plus. Everyone thinks that we're good at sports. But I'm here to tell you that we're not. What is the national symbol? Your nation is only pretending to like. I'm Andrew. Mullah Monaco's house view starts now and welcome to the show. If a week is a long time in politics this week will have seemed even longer than usual to one politician in particular Mike Bloomberg the foam in New York City mayor and empty billionaire Bloomberg took part in his first debate with his fellow candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination in Las Vegas on Wednesday. Already the ninth such owning of this campaign. It went badly for him so badly. Indeed that even in this hyper accelerated new cycle people. Still wincing at the recollection. Forty-eight hours later joined now with more on this and other election developments by US elections correspondent. Thomas Lewis Thomas. We have had a few days to absorb the impact of Bloomberg's debacle in Las Vegas. Is it possible to tell whether it's really damaged him? It's not at this very moment. Andrew Given the opinion polls have been so fluid throughout this race so far I think given that his presidential campaign Today too so unusual given that he'd managed to climb up the opinion polls and stuff such substantial way solely based pretty much on television advertising in several key states That this is sort of the flip of the coin. If you like of how voters usually get to experience that candidates so to see Michael Bloomberg on the stage in Las Vegas on Wednesday looking very much like a deer in the headlights and looking very much unprepared for the huge torrent of attacks that every other one of the candidates racing for the Democratic nomination through it him. I think would've surprised many people I think if you look at the latest opinion polls Bernie Sanders is still very much in a very comfortable lead with everyone else climbing up very gradually behind him but still without Gulf behind. So I think you know for those who enjoy the drama of these things. I think Nevada could prove to be very dramatic. If for example Bloomberg doesn't breakthrough in that debate really did damage him on Wednesday. His campaign is of course has been very live. In retrospect to by saying well look this is the first time in the ring Bring on the next one. Well let's have a look at those headlights. He was caught in specifically those Sean at him by this metaphor is really hard work. But you know what I'm saying. Elizabeth Warren was the more enthused most enthusiastic. I think monster of Bloomberg in Las Vegas. Her campaign was starting to struggle by that point. Are we seeing any signs of a revival? We are but it is in the context of a very small and gradual revival of her rivals as well. I think for Elizabeth Warren. She has found herself quite tricky position. Where those who are die hard supporters of her rival for the Progressive Wing of the Democratic Party at the Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is of course. They are so precious about their candidate. They get very angry if it's fast but lightly towards pretty much anyone else who isn't Bernie Sanders and I think for them and as a birth. Warren is someone who isn't the true progressive that she claims to be now for everyone else. More moderate voters maybe independence. Some of Elizabeth. Warren policies are just too far to the left. She's found herself in this like no man's land where she is. An incredibly impressive candidate performs very very well in debates performance. Very well when she meets voters and in sort of keeping the support of those who are working for her across the states in these early stages of the primary campaign. I think if you saw before the New Hampshire primary that was televised debate and amy. Kobe shot Minnesota senator. She gave an upset knockout performance during that debate and then came in a very strong. Finish in New Hampshire vote itself which has led lots of campaigns to see value in these TV debates. Even though we've had so many of them so far and they're still not over yet so I think for Elizabeth Warren debate itself was really crucial moments. And I think there's no doubt that people would say that she she effectively won that debate and that even if she doesn't Postino say in the top three in Nevada tomorrow That still there will be gas in the tank of campaign. Thanks to that performance in Las Vegas on Wednesday well as we look ahead into the next week In the circus which we will doubtless be recapping about seven days from now. What do we have coming up? So what we have coming up. We have the South Carolina primary so these early stages of the primary process. You heard lots of candidates after Iowa New Hampshire in stating raising the question really and lots of pundits the American media to asking whether to states that are so predominantly white should have such a huge influence over the momentum of the start of presidential nominating process. That was changed a few years ago to bring in more diverse states to the top four. Th you like so. Hence we have Nevada tomorrow and then South Carolina next week now South Carolina for candidate like Joe. Biden has performed pretty poorly. So far I think it's fair to say he'll be staking pretty much entire campaign on the results in South Carolina. He has long touted his credentials as a champion of African American voters. And I think it's about sixty percent of voters for the Democrats in south. Carolina are African American so if he fails to break through there it is quite tricky to see where he's going to break through a tall but then of course you have the question if save. Michael Bloomberg who seems to be scooping up support from Biden's not sign away from him if he doesn't breakthrough in someone like South Carolina. Who Does that fall to? Does someone like Pete. Judge performed very poorly among African American voters. So far does he have some kind of breakthrough or does Bernie Sanders stretches leader the champion for voters in predominance African American States and predominantly Latino states on predominantly white states too. So this is going to be a very fluid race to come as the states. Get more diverse. Andrew I think as the primary process leads up to Sepa Cheese Day on the third of March Thomas Lewis. Thanks for joining us. You're listening to a monocle house view. It's time now for our weekly reflection on what we know today that we didn't last Friday we learned this week and none of us more so than Mike Bloomberg that among the Miyako Horta things that even Mike Bloomberg's fabulous wealth. Kennel purchase is the difference of his rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination Bloomberg took wrong the other contenders in the debate in Las Vegas scene of many a title fight. If you can stand yet. Another of the boxing metaphors troubled out since moments Vegas. So this'll gambling Bloomberg walls rav left. Scrap lethal his gumshield to the accompaniment of a man in a bow tie counting to ten. We have a grotesque and immoral distribution of wealth in in called Mike Bloomberg owns more wealth than the bottom one hundred and twenty five million Americans. Ouch I'd like to talk about who were running against a billionaire. Who Calls Women's fat broads and horseface lesbians and no I'm not talking about Donald Trump talking about Bloomberg and furthermore ouch. We learned though. The revelation will have surprised few who've been paying attention that upcoming trade talks between the U. K. And the E. You might be other than the amiable saunter through the daisies and tulips. That British photos were promised an especially delectable details spotted in the US negotiating mandate suggested that the UK will need to quote address issues relating to the return or restitution of unlawfully removed cultural objects to their countries of origin. This was widely interpreted as a suggestion that Greece might attempt to leverage the UK's self-inflicted predicament to seek the return of the Parthenon Marbles. One of many treasures interred navasques lockup of stolen goods known as the British Museum these sculptures purloined from Athens by Thomas. Bruce Seventh Earl of elgin in the early nineteenth century and about which Greece has not since ceased sulking although in fairness and not but it stopped anyone else running with it. We which is to say we read past. The headlines also learned that Greece denies that the cultural objects close relates to the Parthenon statues. We also learned that. There are few spectacles. Quite so undignified as legions of self-styled. Social media humorists all the trampling each other underfoot in the stampede to be. I make the joke cabal how brexit shows that the UK really has lost its marbles we learned a very weirdly specific a dole most impressively bras next example of Russia's continuing trolling of the United States. It turned out that the Kremlin funded propaganda outlet radio. Sputnik has been cheerfully broadcasting on three stations in Kansas City which in the admittedly unlikely event that President Donald Trump is listening to monocle. Twenty four right now is in Missouri disappointingly four connoisseur of old school agitprop sputnik content. These days is longer on sledgehammer critique of the dysfunctions of the modern United States than. It is on stirring encomium to tuneup. Harvests and track production is the Russia analyst. James Rogers on Tuesdays globalist. It's part of the same stable as RT formerly Russia today simply try to take the contrary view to whatever it says the dominant Western media narrative. It will often invite people on who don't have mainstream voices people who'd be seen in the United States or in the UK for example is being either to the extreme writes on politics extreme. Left of politics. They are voices which not heard in the mainstream and of narrative artists. Trying to develop is to say look. This is what you're not finding out. We learned that the people of the state of Virginia only months to wait before they may after centuries of enforced decorum curse in public. Since seventeen ninety two what is known as Profane swearing? Like there's any other kind has been punishable by a fine eighty three cents when the law was passed two hundred fifty dollars more recently last year. Alone twenty five. People were cited for ignoring the signs. Which still won't against swearing in some Virginia jurisdictions tragically it is not recorded how many supplementary offenses were provoked by the receipt of a swearing ticket from local constables. No Goddamn Long. However this week. Virginia's Senate voted to repeal the more and it now awaits. Only the governor's decision of to hell with it. He is joined the Deco on Thursdays briefing to say about the Americans. You must remember the basically the puritans the most puritanical of the English Gordon boats to go over and settle in the US. The English at that point just began to relax. The restoration happened there with men in tights and all sorts of kind of Very lush poetry. Meanwhile out very uptight and I think we always think America's is great progressive nation. But it certainly is old and we learned that the most Australian of motor vehicles. The Holden has finally run out of road. Seventy two years off to hold enrolled the first PROPYLAEA Australian built car off. Its assembly line. It is a sad week four. Australians now morbidly beset by pristine recollections of riding in commodores kings would send man's Tirana's and Minaros. It is a sadder week for listening to this program who are about to spend the rest of their lives in voluntarily humming vis nine thousand nine hundred seventy s vintage holden jingle a your welcome in twenty four hundred zero five. Kangaroos and hold and carve. This is molecules house view. I'm Andrew Miller. The new issue of Monocle magazine is now on a new stand near you. It is an Austria special as may be disowned from the cover image of Asian. It's all in the shape of Austria and acupuncture by toothpick mounted Austrian flags at which point a fun pub quiz fact. Australia's flag design may be the oldest in the world dating back to the Twelfth Century and reputedly in homage to the Tunic of Duke Leopold the fifth which after one battle during the third crusade was entirely soaked in blood apart from where he'd been wearing a belt on that cheerful note joining me with more on what he's in the monocle. Monaco's affairs editor and resident Austrian American Christo Chris Festival the big question. Which is boy Austria? It is often a relatively small modest and unobtrusive country in central Europe overlooked. So I'll be honest with you. I've been racking my brain for the last few months ever since I joined Monaco in October and discovered that as the resident Austrian American dual citizen. One of my first task would be to profile one of my own country's and figure out exactly why all of this matters not only that was actually tasked with writing an essay about why Austria matters effectively for the affair section of this publication and It's a really hard question to answer to be honest. I think because put it this way. What matters I think about Austria is a whole bunch of little things. It's the experimental side is the fact that it's a very traditional country conservative country that nevertheless is trying to break out of that And has a lot of lessons to teach the world about that in this time that we're living in of sort of populism and conservative versus liberal culture and everything else I think it has some very interesting experiments that are going on right now in Austria that that make it very relevant to our time. Builder Australia a few times. I don't know brilliantly well But it does have a new image like all countries do and this is a subject to which we will return later today. Show but I think if you ask people for things they associate with Australia. It's all quite stolid and traditional stuff possibly even taking its politics into account verging on reactionary If people pick up this issue which obviously they should. What are they likely to learn about? Austria? That's going to surprise them That's a good question. I think One of the interesting aspects I can say as well for me of this was the fact that a number of the editors That that did this issue Came back from their trips to Austria with with surprises of their own in the sense of just being sort of pleasantly surprised that Austria had more to offer than than one might expect. I think particularly in the world of design. Perhaps that's that's one area where there's some interesting things going on Culture I think is something where Austria has lots to teach the world and we delve quite a bit into this idea of Culture and music and as you say there's this there's this very traditional image of Austria when it comes to its music Mozart Strauss of those classical musicians. But it's something that Austria is trying to break out of. I would say there's a lot of actually modern newer voices that are out there that are trying to to put a put a modern spin on classical music And I think that's one interesting element for me that we talked about in the magazine. is how they're actually trying to do that. The amount of money. They're putting into actually keep classical music alive and a new and the same with theater when it comes to the science book of history and other elements that I think are quite interesting. It's almost a commendably. Celtic pursuit trying to improve on Mozart. It is yeah. I think you're absolutely right and And that's what makes it for me fascinating. It's this it's this balance of traditional and new Mozart brings in the money but at the same time. Austria feels this responsibility. If you will to do something with it rather than just play the same music over and over again for the next five hundred years some great slice of life pieces in the issue a few of which you've contributed yourself one of which I was especially drawn to indeed want to talk about. Everybody knows about the coffee houses of Vienna and the other cities you isolated one particular aspect of those coffee houses and found a way to kind of admired so admire is an interesting way to put it because it started with the fact that the waiters that are in In Austrian coffeehouses tend to be quite grumpy and not particularly reactive to any requests that you make and that is. This is this. Is this grumpy? Non Reactive in the same way that we associate Brazilian waiters. We've outright rudeness of more passive aggressive. No it's a totally different style. Because I think the Paris version is sort of haughty instead of the sense of. We're better than you The Vienna version of that is a little bit more. Like I don't really have particularly time for you. Say I think it does also fit though? And that's that's what I found interesting about it Or Nice does fit into this sort of relaxed element of Austrian Culture. That you can spend three four five hours if you want in a coffee house and not have a waiter to bother you so it's not because they being hospitable they just don't care they just don't care but as a result you don't have somebody coming and asking you know. Would you like anything else? How are you doing? Would you like to check? Can we get you out of here? Anything that there's none of that either because there are simply not really present. They just leave you to your own thing. And they'll do their own thing. In the meantime see for me. That's an almost precise description of heaven. Just a really nice coffee house where everyone just leaves you. Just sit with the newspaper it with a coffee one coffee because the second one might be harder to order. But it's it's a nice way to just wile away the hours and I did a fair amount of that researching this This magazine just as a final thought that if anyone listening to this is inspired to go out and buy the magazine as they should be and then inspired to go and visit Austria possibly for the first time as our resident Austrian is. They won either one town one city or one thing you would. Direct them towards. Oh God. That's a tough one I might go with the my father's hometown of Salzburg If we're going to pick that I think it's a town that has Already a very strong tourism reputation of course But I think it's just a very very beautiful town to visit That is perhaps not quite as known as Vienna might go via an obviously love Vienna where parents are now But I'd say Salzburg is is also part of this interesting mix of sort of new old. It's it's a very classical city very traditional city in many ways but it's in the middle of the mountains And there's a great little report actually on Salisbury in this issue as well it's of Of what to see and what to do. When you're there Chris McKay. Thanks for joining us. You're listening to molecules house feared. You're listening to Molecules House view with me Andrew Miller and finally today an item which genuinely is an up cycling of a conversation which broke out over lunch in the MIDORI house cafeteria earlier this week. All countries have things with which they promote themselves abroad. The songs cuisine people and symbols held to represent the best of a given nation. But how many of these symbols might citizens of these given countries be willing to admit are kind of rubbish first of all a few sample confessions from monocle stuff? Hi My name's Reece James Monocle twenty four senior news producer. My Dad's family originally comes from a small town called long. In West Wales learning among you will know was once. Home to the world-famous hell raising playwright and poet. Dylan Thomas but I'll let you in on a bit of a secret. His poetry really isn't all it's cracked up to be short. Dylan's not in fifty four radio drama and Millwood is a thing of beauty but don't let my countrymen and women convince you that everything he's done he's wonderful if you won't truly great wellsprings than he needs to look up his miserabilist unless will know namesake. Thomas Higham finanical by share cool monocle. Twenty four culture correspondent. You know what's actually rubbish about Brazil? Our mental state. Everyone talks that how residents are chilled. Ready to party so friendly. We are friendly. We are extremely anxious. In fact world leaders in anxiety we took so much medicine. Ten percent of our population have extreme anxiety. And to be honest I have lot of all CDs. I am anxious still friendly. I would say but yeah. Brazil are not eschewed as you think I wish it could be a bit more Canadians and Mexicans. Apparently they're very chilled. According to many research around the world so yeah. That's it. Sorry to be Obama as a Kiwi. I'm often called upon to defend the defenseless quite literally the Kiwi bird that gives us nine sake. It is one of the most rubbish bids in existence. It's fairly mates. The grade of a bird can't fly. Which is usually the first thing. A bid should be able to do some kind of like dirty brown color. People say it's cute but it's kind of basically just a little bit redundant and so and of its redundancy. I've got some more options for New Zealand. Flightless birds that could be our icon. How about the more or the giant more? Think like an emir but twelve foot tall. Very very big maybe the TACO. Hey that's come back from extinction to be extinct it's Beck Redemption story or my pick the KAKAPO. Which is the world's heaviest parrot and it can't fly a flightless parrot so you got some options other than the Kiwi that we go for. I'm Andrew Talk. I'm the editor of monocle. I was sorry for anybody who ends up in London. Trolling around all those tourist sites if you come from La let's be honest. Buckingham Palace's smaller than media. Moguls Shock Piccadilly Circus. You wonder where all the jugglers. Where are the animals? It's just a big disappointment. Isn't it covent? Garden can't even find a Bush in the damn place and Trafalgar Square. It's just a traffic intersection. If you really want to enjoy London go small. Go of peace you end up wandering around some of these big tourist attractions. My God. If you go to Madame Toussaud's then I'm sorry. I'm Nick Mason. I'm a researcher monarchial Australian and everyone thinks that we're good at sports. But I'm here to tell you that we're not sure. We used to be good at cricket rugby swimming. Heck that was even a stage where we're competitive at football now. You'd be hard pressed to find something that would win. Well that guy that used to be good at forty in high school but keeps telling everyone just how athletic and competitive he used to be. I think we're an optimistic paypal though if you're in Australia in the late out to any sporting world cup You'd be right in thinking that we were going to win it. My name is Chris Chairman. I am the affairs editor of Monocle magazine and I WanNa talk about something that unites might two countries. I'm dual Australian and American citizen. What unites them both the sound of music. The sound of music was an American production It's very much loved in the United States and around the world It's not very much like at all in Austria itself And part of the reason that people around the world should get used to is that Maria von Trapp was not necessarily a very nice person. She was actually quite violent to her music troupe. At the same time. I'd say that Austrians should lighten up a little bit themselves about the sound of music something that brings in a huge amount of tourism dollars for Austria. And I think they could get over themselves a little bit. It's a very nice very nice musical that That people around the world love and actually puts Austrade Salfan a positive way and with more on this. I'm joined by Monaco's Rebelo Portugal Daniel Beach Canada and Kiara Romila Italy. First of all me Australia. I'M GONNA come out and said I'm GONNA go Big national flag and our national anthem. Both just not very good And obviously in criticizing the flag visit implied disc of Britain's flag which takes up a quarter of als. Which is one of the reasons I I duNno. I just don't think it's very inspiring now. National Anthem is objectively a judge and should be replaced immediately with. It's a long way to the top if you WanNa rock and roll by. Cdc that's a good one. They still play that. A lot of Sporting events in Canada too much a pickup off such things too much. Ac DC. We celebrated the anniversary of our flag and we used to have one with the Union. Jack on it. We got rid of that. I like the Canadian flag. I will admit our national anthem is rubbish. Well the US. I hate to say this but the American national anthem is a belt. We did an episode of the Foreign Desk. Wants to decide the greatest national anthem. I think it came third behind France and Russia. Okay it's way up bill but you have to say Daniel which may be uncharacteristic for a Canadian. What is the thing that Canada promotes to the World Virtue? But which is actually garbage. I think I was thinking very hard about this. Perhaps too hard. This is a couple of things everyone thinks that. Oh you're from Canada. You're very hardy. You can handle the cold in the Wilderness and the outdoors. I think the reality is we. A lot of people in Urban Canada have quite a detachment from the outdoors. And and IT'S I. It's so weird. Seeing all the indigenous symbolically. We use as well to to show that. We're like this. Great country connected to our indigenous. People like even. The prime minister. Love this to Australia. Yeah the Prime Minister. Has Haida inspired Tattoo on his arm from a high degree of very remote indigenous island off British Columbia. But I just I don't find that to be so true and really I hate the cold. Now that's why Britain on it's even it's even worse sometimes when it's great but I think the thing everyone thinks about wh when they when they think about Canada and perhaps not when they meet me. But that's That everyone is polite and I've never understood this because there are nice people everywhere in the world there can be in all around the world but I don't understand why people say Canadians are played. I think there were just the same as everyone else. There are nice people and there are very mean people so I think that's a porsche. It and of course of course very mean about as dominant as an insult from Canadian. Colada you are Portuguese. What is a thing that Portugal sells itself to the world with the actually Portuguese? Just on the quiet kind of wish. Portugal wouldn't well not as much as thing. But as a person and one man one man and credit or credit is due A good professional and great In his Field Man Cristiano Renaldo has to be has to be the one and look. I even pains me to say because not only am I. Am I Portuguese from Madeira License? The same island where he's from and the same city in that island so it just keeps the you know. The Circle keeps closing and closing but we love using him to promote brand Portugal and murders tourism to promote brand Madeira and visit Madeira Island But the truth is yeah. He's just not that great. He's a great professional. But I don't know in terms of branding. And if he's the best to represent. Our country is bussed in Infantile airport is something to behold. Isn't it it was so Magnificent that it has been replaced so we should have made statues of that statue. There is something to be said about know whenever I go back home to visit family to land in Cristiano Ronaldo airports well I must say the International Cristiano Renaldo Airport sorry and then you drive into the main city from Shell and you drive through the Cristiano Renaldo Square where the Cristiano Renaldo hotel is that has a Cristiano Renaldo Museum Underneath. And he just think maybe we've had enough in fairness Shore somebody as famous for his self effacing. Modesty as Cristiano. Renaldo is is is embarrassed by this you one hundred percent. I'm sure he completely does likes it. And I'm I'm happy. He's not playing in a Portuguese club for now at least in Italy can share a bed of the burden would us for now and Yeah I just I know that he always is a great professional and he is at the peak of his career but ran. Portugal should be completely separated from this man on the subject of Italy. Kiara your homeland is one with an enormous soft soft. An enormous soft power footprint was what I was getting at around the world but is a any what Italy projects abroad. That you as an Italian think he's possibly overselling it somewhat. I've honestly given this a lot of thought over a number of day is my recollection that you started this argument on Tuesday. Yes and since then. I don't think I've been able to conjure up anything honestly on. I can say this without any doubt. Or any ounce of you know. I'm trying I'm trying to think I'm trying to pay but I can't honestly think of anything just because when you think about it most things that we say are good are genuinely good Italian food. Great Italian art pretty good. Too Italian weather tends to be on the good side Italian music Italian singing Italian talented music. Since about the seventeenth century. You could raise certain issues. We've always have a fan Fernando so exactly I mean it. It really depends target audiences. And when you when you're looking at ourselves for example anything any of US would have any issue with it. Maybe maybe we just proud people. What can I say? Well we have therefore learned that Italy is in every way utterly irreproachable of Michael's Counter Culture Abella and Daniel. Thank you for joining us. Studies all four today. Show Monaco's Halsey was produced by Daniel Chastity manage it was Christie Evans. Coming Twenty hundred brand new edition of the menu with Marcus Hippie Monaco's house for your returns at nine. Am Saturday London time and then again? Eighteen hundred London time on Monday. Andrew mullet thanks for listening and have a great weekend.
488a Enjoy Your Seat; Lisbon Neighborhoods; Buenos Aires Bio
"The streets of Lisbon really come alive for Saint Anthony's Day. It's one of those. Those time. There are no rules already. At lunchtime people are industries eighteen sardines. The music is booming out loud so already you know there. Something coming up guides from Portugal. Take us into Lisbon's liveliest neighborhoods including the ones that resist being gentrified. A New York architecture critic explains his fascination with Buenos Aires both extrordinary but an entire generation would conscientiously seek to recreate Europe in the middle of the pompous. James Gardiner has written a biography of Buenos Aires to argue that the city itself is a work of art and Wendy. Simmons helps us enjoy taking a long transatlantic flight long-haul flights as uninterrupted me. Time getting up close in Lisbon and wineries and enjoying the flight over. It's all just ahead on today's travel. With Rick Steves. I'm Rick Steves with borders temporarily closing countless travel. Dreams are now on hold. But I know that we'll get through this crisis and when we do it'll be more important than ever to venture out into our world so for now. Let's enjoy these virtual adventures through the Radio. And when we're able again let's promise to keep on traveling if you like to explore historic cities with funkier festive neighborhoods. We've got to for you to choose from in the hour ahead. Tour guides from Portugal will help us navigate the street life and the tangle of cobbled lanes and lookouts and their capital as we get acquainted with the neighborhoods of Lisbon and an architecture critic finds a lot to like faded charisma of Buenos Aires. But I writer Wendy. Simmons returns to travel with Rick. Steves to help us look forward to our next long airplane flight in coach as a photographer and contributor to Huffington Post. Wendy's traveled a lot so far she's been to eighty five countries. She doesn't read the overseas flights at all in fact she joins us now with her tips on enjoying your next flight. Wendy thanks for being here. Sorry my so you write that long haul. Flights can be more fun than short ones. That's pretty good trick house. Oh I travel all the time as you said and I've come to really not lake. Short flights feel long only. They're not so I can't get anything done and instead you know. I look at long haul flights as uninterrupted me. Time just ten twelve hours of time where? I don't have any guilt that I should be doing something else and instead I can use the time to do all the things I wanna do that. I never seem to have time for one on the so that takes a little bit of intention and thinking ahead. I do the same thing when I'm planning a trip to Europe and I know my departures a week out. I've actually got a little list of things I'm going to do during the flight because I will get hours of me time. What are some of your meantime activities that make that flight actually blessing? Well it can be fun stuff and it can also be stuff that I just have to get taken care of that. I never have time to do so. For example it's a great time. I listened to a lot of music. I love music and I am always frustrated. That can't find the song I feel like listening to her playlist and that type of thing so it's a great time to clean out my tunes library and get rid of music. I don't like or create playlists. It's a great time to go through my email inbox and just finally cleared out. You don't have to be online to do that. Those things take a long time in our lives are so busy and never get render so tedious and who wants to do that on weekends. You know for me. A related thing would be Hall the piles of photos. I've got packed into my iphone. You can just go through in down. It's actually it's the perfect time to do all the stuff you don't WanNa waste time doing during the weekend or at night. Also you can just do something that you would normally invest time in other ways. Absolutely you know I'll to things like if I've always wanted to read about the history of someplace or I've been wanting to learn a few key phrases in the language of whatever country I'm going to you know that's the perfect time to catch up on movies or season of television shows all season of whatever or watch a movie that you wouldn't have exactly those are the exactly the kind of thing so it's really about mindset or a movie that your partner wouldn't WanNa see with you exactly are the ones you'd be so embarrassed ask anyone to watch with you. If you're anywhere else I love to walk up and down the aisle and just look at the way. People are spending their time and see how they're really getting into all that trash on the screen. I mean I've watched some of the most embarrassing movies ever on airplanes humiliated if anyone knew but it's the perfect time and I think you know people go onto airplanes dreading it and if you just you know if you make a few simple changes and you bring a neck pillow and you dress in layers and you take your shoes off and you have a glass of wine and you sort of look at the airplane is your you know your personal private space albeit. It's not comfortable but it's not permanent. I know people that would they would travel less in order to go first class and makes no sense that ultimately. I don't know how much more I think you'd pay five or six hundred dollars more one hundred dollars hour or something at least just sit in first class and just makes no sense to me because what you can do is you can creatively work to make your coach seat. Feel a little more elegant. And there's ways that I always say I would rather sit in coach with my noise reduction headphones than to sit business without them because the rumble of the airplane is. It's just exhausting to me and I can have my own little cone of silence and when I put my headphones on nobody talks to me and I do have that meantime I remember this interview that the CEO of Spirit Airlines did one time after a poll came out ranking them dead last in customer service and seat size and space and all these other statistics and he basically said listen. We get you from place to place really cheap. You can spend the money where you're going and I thought you know what a brilliant response and that's how I look at it. The airplane isn't part of the vacation. It's to get me to the big Russian affordably. Say money to it up and uncomfortable for thirteen hours so I have an extra thousand dollars when I get wherever it is that I'm going. I've Long said if I land in Europe or wherever I'm going safely on the day I hope to. It's been a huge success. I can send a thank you note to the president of that airline. But but let's talk about being stuck in coach and making it feel a little nicer. You mentioned. Bring a neck pillow. Yeah I don't even understand how people can sleep on a plane without an inflatable neck pillow and a lot of people bring the you know the hard the beanbag kind that they have to carry around the airport. The inflatable ones are equally comfortable. I promise you and then that way when you arrive wherever you're going you can deflate them and put them in your suitcase. And it's not an extra thing that you've got to carry along as you said. Bring your own headphones. They're so much better quality they don't hurt your years like the ones that they give you in coach. I always bring warm socks. You know your feet or freezing. They keep the airplane so cold but on the other hand you know where layers that way. You're controlling the temperature and not the airplane. You can get cold on a flight especially for sitting next to a window and to take your shoes off is nice but you need warm socks and he almost could've slippers or something but one way to keep your feet warm but not stuck in shoes and you can make your whole body comfortable. Take off your belt. It's like pajamas. Almost you know what I'm GonNa long haul flight overnight. I always wear like stretch pants and sweat clothes. Basically I don't really care if I don't look that great on an airplane for me. It's all about comfort and making sure that I'm as comfortable as possible in my seat. So I'll bring usually the Pashmina. I can use that as either a headrest or a blanket around myself. I assume they're giving me nothing so I bring whatever it is. I need to be comfortable. I bring a scarf and scarborough find very nice. Even if I'm going to hot destination at a time your word never used the scarf. I FIND THE SCARF. Really a godsend on the flight. Absolutely and also I've purchased. They have these small travel blankets that you can buy from fifteen dollars or ten dollars. An I've purchased a bunch of those. That are inexpensive enough that if I really get stock don't have enough room to carry it back. I don't feel that bad leaving it wherever I am and I also find that part of the thing about business class that makes it more. Comfortable is the ability to put your feet up and so you know I never check baggage. I usually have a small duffle that I put up above. And then a small backpacker smaller carry on that. I put below the in front of me and usually once the plane takes off. I pull that out and I use that has a foot rest and that alone makes a huge difference just being able to have your feet elevated great idea. This is travel with Rick. Steves joined by Wendy Simmons. And she's helping us to enjoy Journey and coach with top tips for making the most in modern air travel. Wendy's the author of the book called my holiday North Korea. That was a long flight. I would imagine her website. Is Wendy. Simmons Dot Com Wendy when you were traveling all the way to Korea from the United States? Did you fly to Japan? Or when I flew through Beijing Beijing along the flavors at Fourteen. Fifteen hours or something. That's a long enough flight. Where your toes actually swell up? Yeah yeah well. That's why I wear compression socks. I started wearing compression socks a few years ago. They make me feel like an old person but they actually are really good. They're really help your body. It's different if you're on a plane for twelve or thirteen hours. Compared to nine hours it really is different. You need to prepare for that. I think you gotTa make to get up and walk around. That's that's it's really important and a lot of water but you know I also. I think that people who say don't drink alcohol on the plane or all those kinds of things you know. I don't ascribe to that. I don't think you should get blasted but having a glass of wine and sort of enjoying the flight and watching a movie all that type of thing. Whatever you need to do to make yourself comfortable and have the time pass. I'm all for it but you should definitely drink water or get up and walk around and I sleep. I sleep a lot on planes. You'll function better. If even get three hours of sleep you'll function better that first day in another hemisphere and one up stay warm. Put the seat belt above your blanket. So the flight attendant. Doesn't it wake you to see if you're wearing your seatbelt? Let Your seatmate know that you're going to be sleeping and you don't WanNa be woken up and when it's all said good night nicely and I'll tell you the other thing I do and I've been travelling a long time is the second I get on the plane. I changed my watch and my phone to the new time zone very smart and I start living in the time zone on the planes. That is so so important. A lot of people keep their clock at America time in three days into their trip. They're saying oh it's three o'clock in the morning. I must be exhausted. Well no wonder you know right. If I'm supposed to be asleep in the new country all trying to make myself go to sleep so that I functioned on the right time zone when I arrive wherever it is. I'm arriving. Sleep is the best medicine for me when I'm when I'm abroad. Wendy Simmons is helping us look at the bright side of a long airplane. Wendy's a frequent traveler who posts photos and blogs from her adventures at Wendy Dot Com. She also writes about a surreal tour. She took a few years ago in her book. Called my holiday in North Korea. Now a big question for a lot of people is the aisle are the window. You've spent a lot of time up in the air What's your advice is it? Does it depend on the individual. Yeah I mean it depends on if you're someone who has to get up a lot you got to be on the isle. I don't like disturbing other people. I'm very sensitive about that and I don't have any trouble getting up for other folks so you know I think the window certainly more comfortable if you're someone who likes to lean against something but that's where the neck pillow comes in. I find the window to be colder so I'm an I L. Person People in the middle I don. I can't even understand that mentality. They've got to be the least organized. End Up in the middle. You know one way to end up in the middle is insist on sitting next to your partner. No no can make sense for a lot of people but you do have the option of splitting up in the new each denial or you each get a window Tell my family travels we all get. I'll seats near each other. And you know I've written about this as well. I know I one person would suffer. It's just temporary. You're just on a flight for a few hours. You know I understand if it's small children you know in that can't be helped or someone who needs care but if you're to adults traveling there's no reason why one person needs to be uncomfortable and if you want time me time is not us me. Time is very selfish. You know and I think that might be a good precondition. Look Darling I love you very much and I'm never going in this season but my life is busy and I've got six hours of me time and I need that we can both get our. I'll yup good advice. Wendy Simmons thank you so much for sharing and best wishes with your Huffington Post Work and and and with your travel writing. Maybe I'll see you in the aisle on the next transatlantic flight. Okay by Wendy thanks bye. Bye-bye tone coming up. We'll export to great cities that are well worth the voyage and architecture critic looks at the chanting character of Buenos Aires in Argentina. In just a bit but first tour guides from Portugal take us into the historic neighborhoods of their capital Lisbon. Our phone number's eight seven. Seven three three three seven four to five at travel with Rick. Steves hi I'm Rick Steves. As we try to adapt to the unusual way we need to live in this covid nineteen era. Let's make sure that our isolation doesn't seal us off from what we love best about our world. Let's imagine the welcome we can expect as we rediscover the joys of travel as our world opens up again. Ships once sailed from its port to rule an empire that stretched from South America to Africa and Asia. Today when you visit Lisbon. It's vintage trolley. Cars rattle up and down hilly streets they take you past bird stained statues and grand plazas into intimate neighborhoods were multicolored tiles. Wrought IRON BALCONIES N- CHARAKATA. Roofs set the scene. We're joined now in travel with Rick. Steves by to tour guides from Lisbon to introduce us to picturesque neighborhoods Christina Duarte and Rafael Pereira. Welcome thank you thanks. So let's Lisbon feels to me like a collection of neighborhoods. How would you Raphael Define Lisbon in terms of neighborhoods. What are the big neighborhoods? We should be aware of well. Of course there are the traditional neighborhoods Blackhawk Pharma Maria. Then there is the by show. Which is the neighborhood that symbolizes the reconstruction of the city after the break? Seven fifty five earthquake and then there is by Walt which is a neighborhood that is multidimensional. It has a very interesting historical perspective but also the Bohemian area of the city. Okay so just so. We can keep track of this. Lisbon has a a grid sort of area between the hills. Which is the the downtown? And that'd be the Baisha and that was destroyed in an earthquake in seventeen fifty five and rebuilt in a grid plan which is quite striking for something from the eighteenth centuries and then when you're looking inland the right you've got the old sailors quarter the all. Fhimah with the castle on top and on the left. You've got the Bairo Alto. What does that mean the high the high neighborhood the high neighborhood in and you mentioned that would be sort of Bohemian and multi-dimensional. How would you describe this high neighbor? The Barrel Alto while it has a very interesting historical perspective because it is five hundred years old it was the first neighborhood should be built outside of the medieval walls back in the fifteen hundred and it was built differently than the city that existed before inside the medieval walls. How is it different? Because it was built using ideas of urbanism they built it not with a perfect grid but in orthogonal structure so we can say in a way was the first neighborhood. These been sense. Roman Times where ideas of urban is more used. What's an example of urbanism? That's interesting what something practical that it had that other towns didn't Christina Planning and until the fifteen hundred sign normally say that the city happens or you have space. You construct things in planning. Yes and on the fifteen hundreds. It was necessary to put in order to the chaos of our Pharma with yes killers. It's the ultimate feels like some sort of Morocco McKenna or setting the streets. Were done on human dimension. You needed that big streets for because because there were no cars so the streets were done by human size you need to be protected from the sun from the wind from the rain so it was on human dimension and on the fifteen hundred the things change we the renaissance. Now you have coaches you know like okay the carriage so you need to construct a city you have to have rules narrow here. We go through and be able to to turn out now. Lisbon was a world power in your fifteen hundred. Vasko de Gama Magellan and fell on You had quite an industry. I would imagine for building ships. I'd understand. There is a like workers quarters of the into Lewis part on the nearby the river. Yeah self from the heel of to the river all of that were shipyards. And how's the workers somewhere? Yes and Actually Portuguese landscape changed because it was necessary to plant lots of pine trees in the material to do that construction so they actually plan to that. Things are changing because now even in the memory of a lot of the people. You'll see sitting on the balconies looking out some of the older people. They can remember like in the autumn when there were no private private place and people would run around in their pajamas in the morning up and down the streets to go to the shore. Yes the you still see some that. Actually in some people's memory was still the way I still see in. Funding are walking off former almost every day. And you still see people in the streets in their pajamas. Still see people cooking in the streets. They don't have plumbing. They have to run down. It's just tradition. This is very interesting. There are a lot of in our former and you will see people washing their dishes in the fountains. Yeah you'll see people men even today is modern. I'm twenty eight years old so he's not that cannot be that old. I've seen mentioned in the fountains of Obama. Now what is an explanation for they? They have watering their house. But the community environment that still exists in Alabama. It's disappearing but it still exists. It promotes this need this necessity that the people have to go to the streets to leave in this draft is something very edge commonplace in Europe now that people will intentionally have a small refrigerator so they have to go to the market. They will intentionally go to shave at the fountain just so they can connect with their neighbors. Well he now. What happens in my perspective is that there is not the house in the street. I mean the street is the continuation of the house. Young people have the windows. Open the door open. They sat the table outside. They cook their meals decorate over the stream. You don't have the gardens industries the continuation of your house. I always tell travelers that the best way to distinguish a person born and raised in our Pharma is to look for behavior. Because if you see someone in the streets relax talking very loud has if they were in their house because they're more form it's interesting you say that because I've been going to the Alpha this by the way is the quintessential old sailors quarter of The oldest part of Lisbon really with these winding streets and a little tiny lane will suddenly become a series of stairs and steps built before there were cars there ever. I remember even as a Kid. People just sitting in the street like they owned. It is unique. This was their their home. What's the Big Party in Alabama? As in June for Saint Anthony Saint Anthony's part of the night of the twelfth of June. Because sent is the thirteenth of June. And in my opinion if you ever thinking about doing some independent traveling in these in these two of June Seder Okay White House okay. Let's say June right now. The Sun just went down. What's happening while you have to go through? Because that's was where Saint Anthony was born so imagine this neighborhood of winding narrow streets and entire population just packed there. Yeah it's going to take like thirty minutes just to go a couple blocks couple and it's one of those those times. There are no rules there are basically rules. What are the activities? People are barbecuing outside. People are density you drink wine and you eat grilled sardines and you sing and you dance drink. Wine eat grilled sardines sing and dance. That sounds so fundamental. That's like Earth Wind Aaron Fire. It's just like that. The Sun just sat so it is in the in the end of the afternoon and local people of our firm is not yet there because all the people that are starting to party around eight o'clock the outsiders where is the blue people farmer they are assisting to the parade that is on Liberty Avenue all of our main boulevard like the shows with the oldest one. The main Bove are there is a huge parade in which every district proper district of Lisbon or neighborhood goes long this parade with their own customs with our own songs and there is a contest so if they are very fear about and proud of ongoing duties neighborhood in the big day and around midnight everything is. It's finished so they come still dressing their costumes and we can see if they won or not just by seeing then everybody's audience and and so. Many tourists are in their hotel. At ten o'clock on on June twelfth did thinking okay the days over. No no no no. They will quickly understand. There's something going on because already at lunchtime people are industries eating sardines that the music is booming. Out Loud so or something travel. With Rick Steves. Talking to friends and tour guides from Lisbon Portugal Christina. Duarte Refuse Pereira. And we're talking about the fun loving neighborhoods of of Lisbon. Our phone number eight seven seven three three three seven. Four to five and Michael is calling from East Windsor New Jersey. Michael thanks for the call. Thank you rick in high and a nice to have you on board with us. What do you have the federal comment four Christina or just that you folks are talking about Al saw? We just love that. We were drawn back there magnetically in the three or four days. We spent in Lisbon. And it's such a joy diversity of everything that's there the views from it and those little lanes and so much character and Certainly A couple of restaurants that you've been recommending for years so we we fell into a couple of times. I think one of your favorites as the FA rule does sense of losing and in four days. We spent in Lisbon there three times and the it is good. You say cut the plan that would be. The boy obeys kind of of Portugal. Wow I'm so glad you ate there. Anyone somebody eats there three times? You got to enjoy the the service and the food. I think we did. We had our own table. You know we had our same server the same table and we'd arrived and everybody would stand up and salute us when we walked in. I love that sort of concept your guest. The first night you come the second night near your in your regular part of the neighborhood in that establishment. No question then The whole the whole experience in the city was delightful with our so looking forward to going back and exploring some of the other areas and and actually one thing we have in mind is trying to settle on an area. We may want to spend a significant amount of time on a month. Or two or three fishy. What life is like they are in thinking. They'd be Madeira. Or maybe somewhere in the Elgar Raphael. What would you recommend if somebody wanted to stay? Put in Portugal for a while. There is in the A place called. Mo Chic when you think about geography think about beach that is terrific perspective but if you want to get to know what normally tourists don't know you go to Sheikh Mountains in the Algarve and it's just beautiful and if you have a car you are thirty minutes from the beach but when you are there it feels like you are four hours from the touristic area which are actually just thirty minutes. I've got a friend. Who's a retired postman from Idaho that I met in Europe and he's retired on postman's pension and he's living like a king inland on the garb in the hills and he's got a beautiful place and he's got his car and he's got his Made the comes in and cleans up for him. And he's got the whole beach right at his doorstep there Christina any thoughts Michael as I where he might Wanna well I'll garf- can be quite lonely though quite isolated and nobody if you goes into wintertime wintertime they are CDs such that shutdown because there is is not the season so it can be a little bit lonely actually Madeira Island. Where you have. There's a live over there. There's there is a live over there. Otherwise if he wants we the place Quiet not that busy. I like Vincent Tina and I like Villanova. Phone does places and in the south of Lisbon between all Garvan in Hudson here. Michael thanks for your call and best wishes on your next trip. Thank you very much. We've loved Your your guidance through the years. Appreciate it all right. Have you traveled? Thanks this is travel. With Rick Steves. We're talking with Christina Duarte and Raphael Pereira and we're talking about Lisbon and the charm of the various neighborhoods and Raphael. We were talking about these neighborhoods. That were very traditional. And they're still people you know if you know where to look shaving the well the on the main square but there is a lot of gentrification going on and this must be a real interesting challenge for the people of Lisbon. Do WE WANNA go modern or do we want to protect our heritage. What are the challenges with gentrification in the modern world coming into some of these neighborhoods? Yes I'll say that it's one of the most controversial subjects right now in Lisbon is Either this boom of tourism is positive or not because the in processes happening as a consequence of the development of tourism that is a big part of the economy is so of course it has its positive and has its negative for the case of our Pharma. We have to understand. That is a neighborhood that people that live there. They don't go to the other side of the city a person from Pharma to go to the other side of the city. It's something that it once a year. Now imagine in the last five years you have the entire world at your doorstep. Imagine to impact that that has that is one that mentioned but let's look at the economic dimension and the pressure that they have to leave their neighborhoods because Portugal is an economic crisis in tourism is a very important part of the GDP right now as battalion tourism is eighty percent of the GDP and the tendency is to grow so imagine. Let's have this visual idea. Imagine have a sponge and it's very very dry and you put it in a bucket full of water. It's going to soak up and that's least boom right now. Multiple is an economic crisis in all of the sudden. You have all of this money coming in. And what is the priority to soak up? And that's what people are trying to do. It's an amazing opportunity to make a short rough it and now do you do it accommodation. Okay in two thousand twelve. After the liberation of the rental market anyone can come by. Your property and Lisbon has very creative bed and breakfasts and hostels because most of these houses of a that all the old ladies enough fhimah they were kind of push to go away because they could their family can make more money with renting out the ruined the family because they didn't own the house and they were they were on lease. I see yeah on and they got some money to get out and you know that the owner can do the totally renew of the building. Imagine have this building. There is owned by private owner. And you have all of these. The native population of from living in this building and this bill is not in good condition so the city hall has said that any investor can come and if they by the building and if they commit to restart the building they can evict the people that are living there and then make some serious serious money. That's gentrification isn't death and then the beloved black and white in laid mosaic sidewalks. The tradition and I understand now that people say they get slippery and they're expensive to repair so they're talking about replacing them with modern not not on this story call centers. Oh thank goodness will sanders. Technique is protected. Everything that story call center is always lots of paperwork but on the new districts. Yes they're doing that for practicality it's reality of the modern world this travel with Rick Steves. We've been talking about the neighborhoods of Lisbon. Let's just close with one. Little intimate way of tourist can from America can enjoy Lisbon without necessarily going to a famous museum. But just having a local experience Christina my local experience and I always I do it myself everywhere I go. I just find a place where I can have a proper coffee and I see and I just see people pass by on a square on a square and that is very. Poetry is because the squares to us is the outside of our homes and it is easy to find in any square. One of those old kiosks slammed eighteen hundreds and they are perfect is just the perfect place to be with friends and to meet other friends. Yeah so we. Beka with a little copy a little espresso thinking advantage of those central kiosks into see people pass by Rafael. How about you so? Of course he's been is known for its beautiful charismatic yellow trolleys so a must do is to ride the trolley. I recommend it twenty eight that I think is the best trolley number twenty eight so really for Americans. We know the trolleys in San Francisco in the Steep Hills. The couples and the ringling. It's the same thing You Number Twenty Eight Number Twenty Eighth Butts. I would like to add something. If you take the twenty tram you will feel like a cancer in you feel like you are in a theme park attraction. That's the problem but there is a solution. Okay so what you can do. Is You wake up a little bit early. And you take the tram in the magic hour so at sunrise. The Trans Are Empty. Rolling on see local commuting. You going to trim the skies pink. The seagulls are hovering the city. And you have the city for yourself so if you take the trump at half past seven before all the tourists come to the city you can experience. The trolls like travel. That is a great travel tip. Christine dorte Raphael Pereira. Thank you so much for giving us a better understanding of your beautiful city lesbian over. Got The now. There was a pleasure and the New York based architecture and culture critic. James Gardner thinks Bojnice areas stacks up favorably against almost any of the capitals in Europe. It's a city teeming with memories. Were you quickly get a sense? There's something different about this place. We'll find out why next starting travel. With Rick Steves. Where at eight seven seven three three three Rick Phillips Main Exam Bell Year and raise mathematics thieves. I'm Phillip from Belgium and travel with Rick cities as metrics these pointers areas. It's one of the most architecturally interesting cities in the Western Hemisphere. The heart of the city looks like it belongs in Southern Europe France complete with wide leafy boulevards and a faded nineteenth century splendor. This grand city compels New York based culture and architecture critic James Gardner to return often when he was unable to find a book that explains to English speakers have areas came to be the city. It is today. He decided to write it himself. His book is called Aries biography of a city. James thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. What is Argentina to South America? And what is bonus areas to Argentina? Argentina is one of the biggest countries in South America and of course the capital of Argentina. It is one of the richest countries in Latin America and it is the one that probably feels the most first world. Most because it's the most affluent are its most European feeling. I would say both right you know and it was about one. Sars that it's a European city that happens to be in South America. It feels very much like a European city and I think that before I had gone there. I like most Americans who travel was oriented toward Europe and felt that. There's something very familiar about it. Something reassuringly familiar about it. You know I love the grand via in Madrid and got all sorts of early twentieth century striking architecture and old sort of Art Deco and John Dropping dazzling facades and everything and I get the sense that walking around she feel a little bit like Madrid. Would you say I think that's a very good comparison? Voice is cold. The Paris of South America and the potentates of around eighteen eighty made the conscious decision having learned from Baron Ma and and what he didn't Perez and to recreate that to the extent of their abilities in Venice Iras but they learned not only from Paris. If you go there you feel. It feels familiar. But YOU'RE NOT. You can't quite put your finger on what it reminds you of so. There are elements of Paris their elements of Madrid perhaps of Barcelona and a number of other places. But it does have a large element of Spain as you might expect but also elements of Italy as well. We live in New York City. But you spend a good year year in Buenos Aires Y Buenos Aires. What keeps you going back to that particular city. Well the reason I started going there in the first place. Eighteen years ago at this point is that I hate winter and I love summer. And the season's a reverse there so it was good escape and since I'm a writer I was able to do all my work from there and just by going there I I made friends. I gained a greater familiarity with the place. And it's a relatively inexpensive. It's a very comfortable city and so eventually because it's an expensive hose able to buy an apartment there so it just keeps getting better. It's kind of a practical thing. You're getting the best weather. It's affordable exactly exactly now your passion. It seems like from reading. Your book is architecture. You approach city architect. What is it about blowing architecture that you find so striking unique extraordinary as I sort of intimated before that an entire generation would conscientiously seek to recreate Europe in the middle of the pompous and that they should have done it to such an extraordinary degree that a European when he goes there a Frenchman when he goes there feels as though he's in a place that is extremely familiar to him? A famous urban is for his. Ta from Paris arrived in Renaissance in the nineteen twenties. And he said I feel almost as though I more in Paris than in Paris in other words I feel. This is more Parisian than Paris. You wrote that Albert. Einstein has a quote from nineteen twenty. Five Nine Stein asks. How did they manage to create out of nothing? Something that looks so much like Paris years. I mean that's that was the question I tried to answer in. The book is the biography of the city built in the middle of pompous. What was that that you mentioned pompous. Are This massive three hundred thousand square mile. Grasslands that stretch from the Andes to the Rio dilip lot of the river that when it's ours is on then including Uruguay and the southern part of Brazil. It's this massive. Grasslands almost exactly amazing Paris Lake City he more than just the architecture about the city's rare kinetic energy measures up to London or Paris or New York What do you mean by kinetic energy and how it a visitor experienced that will by Connecticut? Energy? I just mean. The fact that it is it vibrantly alive and their traffic jams and honking horns and millions of people walking back and forth and buses rushing by one of the concepts. I have in my book. One of the things that occurred to me was the idea of the infinite city and by infinite city. I mean a city. That is not only big but sufficiently almost arrogantly proud of its heritage. That when you go there it draws you in and causes you to think third. You're at the center of the universe. It's a fiction fiction. That's all great cities R- able to generate. But it's a fiction. That only very few can pull off. I think New York can do it. London can do it. Paris Rome right now travel with Rick. Steves is James Gardner. He outlines his admiration for the Argentine capitol. His book blindness areas biography of a city. His articles on art and architecture appear in the weekly Standard Antiques and the New York Times. We have linked James's book with this week's show details at Rick Steves dot com slash radio or phone number eight seven seven three three three seven four to five Karen calling in from Livingston Texas Karen. Thanks for your call Rick. Hi What's your experience in Buenos Aires about one year ago now and we had taken a cruise around South America ending in Buenos Aires where we stayed for an extra. Oh about ten days and we rented an AIRBNB apartment and Was At situated in a everywhere you got to kind of feel the pulse of the city. It sure was probably about fifteen minutes by bus from. I would say the center of Windows. Harry's the big area and so each day we would take the local bus to the city centre. You might say and so it was wonderful. We we were in an area where they were little shopping markets. We WALK OVER. And purchase our food. I've got a teacher friend. That took a sabbatical in Buenos Aires. And he just couldn't get over the charming neighborhoods and the the little tiny parks where you just had this slice of life all around you and it was just delighted just to be there and be part of it. Our apartment was on the second floor. We had a balcony and it overlooked one of those parks. I kind of call it a pocket park. It was probably a square block. We had never seen anything like this. This park was used from sunup to sundown and on the outside of the park was a walking path where people would jog or walk dogs and then inside there was an exercise area that was used by the younger more athletic person in the morning and then middle of the day. The local senior would come out and use the same exercise equipment. It was the most remarkable a neighborhood to be able to watch James. How realistic is it that we travelers can go and connect with that slice of Buenos Aires that Karen Talking About Well as very realistic. They have great Little parks in the renaissance. They were created most of them by a Frenchman in the end of the nineteenth century and whatever hardships US ours has endured in the past Say fifty years or so. They have always kept up their parks. Very well so So corks are very unadorned. Meant to the city Karen. Thanks for your call. Thank you happy. Travels sits calling from Atlanta. I said have you been bonus areas in? What was your big memory? I have been to blame us. Iris and it was fabulous in the same way. That James Gardner is is talking. Our son had taken a graduate internship in Chile and we so we opted to explore Argentina and we love cities and we're so blown away by the European and reach dance culture and vibrant color. Everything about it. One of the things that made it particularly special for us was that we got to go to the Cathedral where Pope Francis had been a bishop believe before he became right that was his Perish before yes we felt like we were there just at a moment in history when things were going to be changing and the other Min Mini delightful experiences but the reckless cemetery for me as someone who loves art and architecture it was just such a an extraordinary place to to go in and to get some feel the history the pride all things which richly adorned it so James's at the major national cemetery in the city then or what does the wreck collector. It's it's not the biggest cemetery but it's The most interesting and strangely enough for cemeteries. It's an extremely happy place. It's probably the main tourist. Draw the one thing everyone who goes to win us. Ours is going to see it doesn't have any greenery strangely enough. It's not like a usual cemetery what you have instead are. I think something like five. Thousand discrete mausoleums Right each of which has done in this extravagant architectural style ranging from gothic to classical to Baroque to modern All around it. You have bars and restaurants one of the best views you can get. It is from the McDonald's across the street. There's a mall and there's McDonalds on the fourth floor. And when you look down you overlook this cemetery so you having your quarter pounder and just kind of marveling at the beauty cemetery spreading below one of the interesting things we've learned. Is that much of the wealth that can be seen so vividly in the wreck. Cemetery actually could be traced back to refrigeration and since Argentina was such a beef producing country. The fact that refrigeration could spread that beef all over the world. Many many families gained enormous wealth. And so when you look at the a cemetery you see based on coal storage kind of that's true is is is one of those first countries in the world and they have on the pompous these vast plains they have cattle and the cattle reproduces itself every three years at doubles in size. Say how this enormous wealth but until the introduction of refrigeration and the eighteen eighties. They couldn't really exported. There was nothing they could do other than to sell the hides but with refrigeration suddenly they could send that to the rest of the world and it was that which not only paid for the mausoleums in the cemetery regulator but all the great avenues all the Great Parisian architecture that you see there comes from refrigeration. I think he can say oh so. It's the city the beef built You can see that. By the way they have great beef if you're a carnivore for carnivore of right. And it's inexpensive beef. Very good and inexpensive said. Thanks for your call. This is travel with Rick. Steves TALKING ABOUT POINT. Azeris with James Gardner. Who's written a book on the city? James when you think about the city beef built and this sort of WANNA be European capital. I know your passion is architecture. You mentioned the architecture and the city is largely quote derivative. Can you just give us a quick little? Walk down the main boulevard and describe just from an architecture point of view what we're GONNA see. Let's say you were to go to the plus of the Marsh. Oh the main square. What you'd see is first of all the Cathedral where Pope Francis formerly archbishop that glow Yo use to preside And that's a neoclassical building from eighteen. Twenty two more or less than you have the Kosovo Zodda Pink House. Which is the seat of the executive branch of the government? This is associated with Evita Peron and Juan Peron. And that's where the president is now and it's called the pink house because it's literally painted pink. That's an early stage of the bows are architecture from around eighteen. Eighty two then actually facing it. You have something called the Cup below. Which is one of the few remaining structures that has anything of the colonial period? The oligarchs of the generation of eighteen eighty tried to abolish any trace of colonialism. That means throwing off their Spanish Yard. Their independence states to eighteen. Sixteen the structure. The Kabila there now is a much smaller version of what was originally there. It's been cut down by the way it's been cut down to create this vast avenue cold. The demar show the May Avenue which is Beautiful Parisian Avenue. It's literally to the centimeter the same size as Baron. Osman's avenues that was intentional. Obviously and decree h this great prospect. Where you see on one side. The Cossutta Zodda the pink house and a mile to the West. You see the Great Bose Art Congra- so the Congress building which is equivalent to our capital in Washington. Dc and you could argue it's modeled upon the capital but between those two points. You have as I say the of needed macho an either side. You have these amazingly beautiful Parisian buildings. So that's the predominant style that you would see there. I would think are challenged when we go to this huge city. What's the population of Buenos Aires? When a cyrus proper is three million but right around it you have L. Ramblin aside as the city itself and the environs or thirteen million so I would think you just have a guidebook. Read your book and walk down the streets and you can just be wowed by the physical structure of the city and our challenges to humanize it. Let's just finish our look at this great city. By if you just take me on a walk and apart from the grand boulevards architecture. What's an intimate experience that we might encounter together that illustrates way? You're so enamored with Buenos Aires beyond even it's incredible architecture. Well the places that we've mentioned thus far are central business areas or government areas or a a cemetery which is a tourist draw. But if you just walk through the streets you'll find it's very liveable place. You'll find relatively few people who speak English in words you. You won't hear conversations in German or French English as you might in Paris or London or Rome you'll hear people speaking only Spanish and you'll find a bookstore on every walk you'll find a bakery or two bakeries on every block and they tend to be very good by the way sometimes side by side you wonder how the economy could sustain these two things in competition but they've both been therefore sixty years. There are an immense number of places where you can buy food whether it's bakery restaurant or a vegetable store or a wine. It seems as though every second store has something to do with gastronomy and It's very liveable city so you got houses. You got beautiful wine to go with the steak yet the tango. She got all this amazing sort of architectural heritage It sounds like a world apart. It's a cheaper option. It's very sensual with the taste. I love of life In really just a world apart. That is very accessible. It's a universe onto itself. All great cities are James Gardner City. Thanks a lot for sharing your insight into a city that a lot of us could appreciate a little better. Thank you for having person I travel with. Rick Steves is produced by Tim. Tap Isaac Wilner and Casimiro Hall. Had Rick Steves Europe and Edmonds Washington. Our website is managed by Andrew Wakeling and Amara chemical our theme. Music is by Jerry. Frank thanks to the Radio Foundation in New York City for their studio help this week. James Gardner explains to recount a stellar has become an institution in Buenos Aires in a program. Extra you can hear it in the radio. Section of Rick Steves Dot Com. And we'll look again next week with more travel with Rick. Steves at Rick Steves. Online travel store. You'll find guidebooks and phrase books for Spain Portugal and every other corner of Europe to learn more about rick's books. Visit the travel store at Rick. Steves DOT COM?
Episode 490 - Adharanand Finn
"It's Wednesday the twenty ninth of may two thousand nineteen. I'm not in yelling. He's Tom Williams. This is episode four hundred ninety of marathon talk. This show MO Farah and Steph, twelve Italian that bridge, ten K titles that they offer militia Courtney and Chris had triumph over the mile. There's another high profile positive from Kenya and change Williams looking to break the land's end to John a growth, recold, Sarah dungeon interviews down, and thin trading talk all about Tom's top Tapeh tips to himself and Facebook Friday is about a healthier happier. You Tom Williams. Welcome back. What you've been up to I've been very strange reason when I was on was that I missed two in a row. You miss two weeks. And y'all haven't haven't listened to holy rate you in last week's episode. Pitching, what did you say? Of course we didn't. Shed totally. We shared the Thome Williams ever. Ever. I mean, we're gonna talk about it later this show, you haven't much time before comrades not feeling good. I'm feeding me. Go to our data. My to make lists to show, the beginning of my comrades training figured that if I could make my ten longest runs total two hundred miles with the average of twenty miles each with the longest one being a marathon. I'd be probably. All right. And that was based on probably start at the fitter being for five years. And I've got insurance background, because that is kind of almost all lighted probably averaged thirty miles of week in total for the whole since January recommend everybody do not by came from, from a half, decent base and figure the long run to do it. So nineteen miles on Sunday. Monday Monday yesterday felt right? Walk couple of hills. I had my cough was picking a little bit. I planned always plan to shorts of probably between twenty and twenty five K two weeks out. But I actually lost a few miles from a long run earlier in the training, which meant if I had done the plant run outland out of being about one hundred ninety six miles out of the two hundred which is totally fine. With by thought I scheduled my run so that I could tech on end if I fell right? A fellow I thought tack on. But my right. Calf was just twin in. I thought I you don't want injury to Lansing want so walked couple of hills later on partly on what hills. Anyway, comrades, every matter, partly protect MacArthur. Yeah. Felt good. Some feeling feeling remarkably positive. That's a good place to be. Yeah, sibling. You've got fifty six miles to run. I tell you what, I've had to protect myself from my typical confidence. I'm pretty confident person and actually the response. I think if I've been doing it without my dad, I probably would have cut a few callers few more corners, because I'm not really bothered about whether I blow up on all those things for me, but I didn't want to repeat of two. When I meant to be looking after my dad, the last thing I need dragging meal. Paulie Shaw is meant to be the way around says, yeah, there's been an element of come on. You need to be the, the grownup here Gelber, so yeah, I'm pretty pleased. I'm pretty comfortable for excited. I'm looking forward to getting out there. Can be good if something you've done it. You did it. We did it together, two thousand eleven it's a celebration of humanities, and it's up to being incredible experience. Can't wait. Actually quite envious often, you know, it's one of those times, he think I remember when you said, on to go dads, and you should come with me, come with me as well. To come. Of course. There you go. It was really. Yeah. Yeah, good. It's one of those things, I think, for me 'cause I'm running with dad. It's one of those things it will definitely have an impact on me for the rest of my life. Probably every single day the rest of my life, like, you know, the journey, we've been on together over the forty four years of my life and the journey, he's been on personally from discovering, exercise these mid to late sixties to now is a seventy three year old in less. I don't know Egypt's over. We didn't f- in the first mile Shih-ming, we get close to or to the finish line. Then it will be an experience that will probably impact my life every day for the rest of my life, which is rare that you have those, you're aware of those experiences in advance, isn't it? You know, getting married is like that having kids when you know, you're gonna have the kids like that. There's not many things that it advance, you go right on June. The ninth something's going to happen. That is going to change my life ever. Mental when you think about it the best. I mean. Yeah. I'm still. In envious is the wrong word, right? But I sometimes sit back and think I'd love to do something like that with, with one of my parents and an Ecorse. I don't see a few e even see a future that might be possible. Maybe you didn't five years ago. And now is definitely tend talent about it definitely ten years ago. I would have said, this is categorically impossible. I will say anything you like that these absolutely no way this could ever happen, and certainly ten years ago. Not not quite five seventy telling me two or three years, go down her try. And if you remember got injured and didn't look like it. He was a super injured seventy one year old. Even point you. But at that point you saw he'd be it would be a not for the one of trying, whereas ten years ago, you know, wild horses couldn't have gotten to do it. What gives us? Hope doesn't it? I think, yeah, I think for me it really the work is done, whether or not, we do not is down to a little bit, and luckily judgment. But the work he's done. He he's fit enough to do, as long as we don't mess around on the day, and get something drastically rawal. He trips down the stairs, the flu or something. Real test me, kind of anything is possible. Believe me, if my dad can can do comrade at the age of seventy three. Just about anything is possible. Well, I'm really confused to zoom. Looking forward to it. Most of all our hope Brian apps de wipes, the floor joy to do much along runs of me like you Bailey, cardiovascular. I'll be much easier than him. But in terms of that, muscular, endurance, and the shock on your legs and fat could give you experienced on you your experience and your experience should should, and plus it helps with these things to have this backlog of training, even if he has done specific preparation. The mean reciproc- insurance preparation, might not be there. But that's okay because of the way in which you're going to run it. I'm looking for Dedic on you in bending. You in bash them me. That's what I read. What Iran, you went here where you buy dipped under eighteen minutes pool park. Run recently. Yep. Trying to do that for a while. And then I thought I'd go down again, this loss last weekend's couldn't do it. Eighteen o four. I made the classic beginning mistake of trying to go out to us. You'll have at this age percentage of our full. Well, what I always find is this intensity of with, which you go out. So I just can't hold it. But with fitness comes the ability to sustain it did, so the five thirty nine five thirty nine and then at six something six oh, something. That's good. I mean you're seventy nine eight grade. And once you start getting into the rage grade, you're cooking on gas than my lifetime. I think my lifetime PB age grade is seventy seven. So you've you're in better shape for that, that I've ever been in mind highlife, the older than you. We had. It's just looking and I did a session in the week. Also eight time three three minutes just vary. A little bit. But it was indicative seven four. When you stood there. What you do you like just the sunshine territory. I've listened I feel a little bit nervous here. What I purposely did it to see how the last two would would feel because oddly, they were quite similar to the previous ex. Yeah. Well, actually, no. Because other than three minutes I slow down. You know. Off. And I fell off Carter started to feel on the fourth, and then the fifth, and then the six and then the last two. But it was one of those sessions, which was really indicative of your lack, my lack of specific fitness, kind of, Sean, this, this light directly on the biggest gap. Okay. You can, you can run that pace you just can't hang onto it even when you having some rest. Look into work. Anyway. Let's say big, thank you to those listeners popped along patriot and pledge their support for this show. We really do appreciate you like what we do link on this week show notes, and you can become a patron. We talk about around the world this, where this is said, wonderful pictures of themselves flashing their super cool kit in exotic locations. If if that's you Papa swan to info at Martin Matheson, talk dot com. We can share it. His Simon Wilde's kicking us off little pick rock in the newly arrive. Mt. Buff of the Melbourne Australia with seventy thousand other fans. Fantastic attending the Cullingworth Magpies versus Carlton, blues AFL, the greatest Roveri says, in Ozzy rose for something akin to Manu the man every playing each other since eighteen ninety s this out, right. They've been playing each other's 1897 having met on two hundred and fifty seven occasions. Carlton winning one hundred twenty seven. Calling word one hundred twenty six it's brilliant. That is four draws great day. He says the buys kicked the last five goals to get up for the wind. That's really exciting, isn't it? So only would call to and who being playing each other for since eighteen ninety seven. You do the math a now level pegging on the number of games. They've won each grief. I've ever been to Ozzy. No rules came no haven't even when you in Australia, the go-to. In the was when Liz finished her in the KOMO th guy. That's awesome. That's my I was in Perth. And I went to watch, but it wasn't what's the kind of Fremantle Fremantle dockers or something, I think I went to see when I was in Perth about eighteen years ago really good in Egan said attack she says to recent photos of my recent long weekend in Girona in Spain. There's no running on this whole as just completed in Milton Keynes marathon, my second in four weeks. So it was on my birthday to which I received my Mt. Twenty six point two vest. And I'm sporting in the photos of I is my tempt, her leg, cut a log pose the second on the same beach side gym equipment, which is my own Excu exercise apart from the long walk down from up upper hill to our villa side, which include well, of course and I went for the cocked leg. It's actually not a bad, call leg Marshall, what you're doing. Your left hand apart from that or your right hand but it looks good. Yeah. That's nice. Isn't it? Really? Sandos as my standard. Some look. Oh, okay. Next up, Matt Roberts, given up in little quiet. In two thousand nineteen I have tache the pick of me running around the Bacelona Formula one track. The day before the Spanish form, new grand prix. What's unfortunate that I get to do? This is my day job run around Formula one tracks. I've managed to get around about six twenty one circuits so far subtly this will be the last one for wall. I'm about to have some surgery, my first and I'm unlikely to run again this decade. We'll keep this, this show to keep me sane over the next few depressing months. Tell you what their look that there is stood on the Basle. Oda F, one track debut full, the Spanish Grand Prix gray in hands really big trainers. Big hands, math and talk twenty six point two teasha good work. Nice, right. Speaker kitchen on the world on you. Trust you anymore. Doing sort of new is sort of nearly new trust the process leisure. He designed exclusively for us by Sarah out of your success, who, by the way, his done, this week's interview I believe, yes, down. And wait. Listen, so she designed his teacher, t-shirt leisure teasha is now law. She can see if you picture of pictures of these are social media will link to our of your success dot com on our website. In fact, I'm set while I was at my one minute, I had a green of green multis so kindly sent me. I've just been to the gym in it came back, hot and sweaty, so actually not Saturday now. But really nice only. Very good. Yeah. Earn? I said, C, right, Facebook Friday show sponsors, thrive to track a range of botany Marcus. We asked we said, was simple blood at home blood test at home. The results can help you make moot changes. What's the one thing you hope to change about your lifestyle this year for happier healthier? You Ruth Webb said, new job away from teaching with definitely made me, happier and healthier. Lisa form to work life balance less work, more life, and or less bad food into my gob says Lisa, that feeling if I don't put it in my mouth. I can't eat it. She says, Mike Houston, just one you left leg, make sure it rights matches the right one though. Brand new look be. Could be mountain cloud. More sleep telling my phone off more late at night. I tell you what sleeps, funny one and. Listen to a few times, recently to some brilliant interviews. We've met Walker sleep diplomat. Who does we recommend that show is really good. One of the issues that never seems to be addressed. And maybe it's because you can't about it is in certain times in your life sleep, isn't, Matt has great, set sentence of he gives a choice. Kim self eight-hour sleep opportunity, every night, I get fully supportive of it. But sometimes particularly when you've got you've got young children that can be impossible. And I don't know what the solution to that is. What do you mean what the solution is, what, why if you're for your boy, you kind of wonder into rooms smashes you in the face random points through the night plucks, it does tell you what you do more with our kids like. We'll talk about later and trained talk a little bit. But it's actually sometimes in modern light in what were. Here's the thing for me. It's about who controls my sleep. So my kids control mind. Well, exactly so trillion nothing about other, that's exactly right. Isn't it? Because other people we listen to this thinking who or what controls my sleep and for some it might be. They worked shifts the sun at, like be they're caring for an elderly parent. You know, for others it might be difficult young children for others. You know, there's always. Always a set of constraints around you sleep, you know, you work hours, your job, your family, your home. It's very rare that we can control for we think about it except for your like childhood teenage. And if you're lucky you're twenties where you're totally unappreciative of it. Yeah. In beds, eleven o'clock, whenever you want, like when I was a student, I'm not gonna even get to lecture. And I was totally. If I if I tell my, what was one of the student twenty two year old self and it being it would be lovely sleep because it doesn't biz in what life like, hey, what we, let's get a world since we had a sleep compensation and on the show is near what are we? See we can lie doing other another expert in sleep because. And you're right. It's so overlooked. That would be let's, let's tell you what just on that. No. They're awesome things that people can do. So the things we've spoken about the constraints around what you can and can't do. The troublesome thing is, when you can control those things, and you don't do them so switching telly off, just go to bed if training talk. So let's, let's park that thought till train talk. It's time to run. All you have to do hashtag about you wanna social media, and you'll feature right? You're on social wall, which is our favorites to read out on the show. I off this week, TJ Jones onto our pod with coach Clair task started comfy pace and get faster every kilometer for five K jump done, says, TJ negative splits and fell in control all the way that worry about times, feel your way to a steadily increasing pace. Ten ten yes. She says hashtag. Thanks coach. Hashtag sweaty all of its Hans end. This is on Twitter, went to hard blue spectacularly racer short to ten. Brilliant. Sure, what did you blow to? Let's go. Scott McNeil on Twitter twenty minute positive split. He says fresh shambolic personal worst at the end number marathan turns out losing last four weeks of training matters. A lot also is that are more boring marathon route in the world. He says. See that they wanna put one out of ten. I think think, though, I have to say, I do think your appreciation of American is inversely proportional to your personal performance on the days in it. So when you have an absolute fly negative split pace it perfectly PB, that's the great American vialed when you have in your words, shambolic, personal worst. The courts doesn't normally seem so much fun Naomi and lex marathon, talk, search off to knocked twenty three minutes of my previous early time. Yep. Completed edinburgh. Four forty four twenty with strong issue next ten out of ten. Nice could work. She says it's most spectacular you've ever seen in life. No. Nor foster on Instagram, which marathon in sixteen weeks, what better time, start with hill training, heart down hot up easy down, easy up repeat twenty-five second difference in both ups and downs between hard and easier training says Laura or a non workday. But that was definitely fun. Nine out of ten. Rub. Davies lots of that math into chat. Chats? Run camp at comrades at big Williams. Ninety forty five BG Williams. Small man. Oh, it. Oh, brian. Brian, Gerard Williams nineteen four. Jerry, jerry. Hey running running comrades, Jerry. Darkness. Sunrise sunshine. Beautiful rivers and get the kiss, the drew grants my seven hours support pass so quickly because it was fun. Well done amazing runneth amazing running Gareth Boyd nice night after say, my Bolton's can be disappointed. Now having heard the beginning of the show at mabul to fourteen on Twitter feed. Inspired the London ten chaotic crack famous six by three minutes at mind. Yelling session, Tim him except for fact, markets now, eight three minutes you heard in the beginning so you only did three cores Cape up boats. It was the vitality London ten thousand we took these from fast, running dot com. So that we can serve Farren Steph to retained ten k road race tiles at the vitality, London ten thousand safe running thousands turned out to run to the sun. Bathe the British capital for Farrer. It was his seventh winning seven races on the famous central London cost twelve to two seconds. We're personal win the women's crown for second time. Just twenty four hours after say a world mile record running hand in hand. In fact, just bouncing over to that for second. She did run that in the what's it called. Westminster mile vitality. Westminster my own press release said it was a special Dave abrasions, nationalist, twelve to she and her husband, Joe more would smashed the Guinness world record for running, a mile Wassall thing, hands completed, the course in four minutes and fifty seconds to beat Ecuador five twenty four seven last year. That was brilliant, so twelve double Olympia, and who won five thousand two bronze at the European champion Lhasa tougher than I expected near the end. And I felt I felt drove Joe drag. Me a bit to the line. But I think we've good standard now to finish areas incredible. According to. According to Joe never met before. Just how behind start away. We went. Wash roller skates on. We found that quite easy. He said, actually, we've got different styles news, heart stay in sync. He said, but it was great fun. Brilliant. I would've liked to have seen them run. Like in training together. But all the time now, thing is, it's quite nice isn't if somebody like Steph, twelve double Olympia kn five thousand two brooms at the European championships. Best inches done world record-holder holding hands. Appraise the Westminster my of the day before wasn't an Bruce, Chris O'Hare, who has PB of three fifty two, which ran in New York a couple of years ago. He won the elite Westminster race in four minutes on the nose brilliant overtook on the line, the young Jonathan Davies say fast running was given the same time in second place pool. This pool AC track ace and marathon tool in on the show. Recently Melissa Courtney won the women's race in four thirty one then what's take down nor meal. Exactly taking down the firm favourite lure Amir, who ran for thirty two that's great. I did see the finish of that, and Melissa brilliant, as she strode away from Laura MIR fantastic. Well, not like don't it should blow smoke. But the part runway brillian. Well, I took a few years, too. On. I remember the first couple of years, the Parham wave we, we really little bit underwhelmed by how many people enter it, but I think we had to part ways this year with seven hundred people in, total three ain't gonna PS h started. I think. Now we did briefly this news broke just as we recording the show last week. We didn't have much on it at the time. But. I don't quite know the correct adjective to describe, whether it's disappointingly, not surprisingly somewhat expectedly like. Which one is it the ethics integrity unit. And that's that Bahrain's unique Kerr the two thousand and sixteen Olympic silver medalist in the women's marathon has been provisionally suspended after testing positive for E, P O. There's a ton more on this story on the ever brilliant. Let's run dot com. That means that the two top finishes from the two thousand sixteen Olympic marathon have been busted for the gold medalist, your mama, soon going tested positive in February twenty seven seventeen. She was alternately banned from the sport for eight years after lying folks defying medical records. Thirty five year old unique occur round six forty six in the half marathon and to twenty one in the marathon LeBron's medal at the two thousand fifteen world championships. This this. I find really I mean. Koa is the wife of Joshua kick Chem. I who also coaches half marathon world record holder. Abraham Kiptum who last month was suspended by the for biological. Passport violation. I think he was actually at the London marathon event and was winning wasn't the chucked out a day before something and was sent home quite rightly so. Yet. Again, we're seeing examples of the world's best marathon and half marathon, runners fooling foul of doping violations. And what strikes me every time is. There's there has to be a distribution network and. Is going on. I did read something else. Interesting in the week about the situation. Aaron clinics integrity initiative. Jeff got him. But that was really into the, the exact detail of the guy's name. But taking bribes for telling Kenyan athletes when drug allegedly international athletes as well. Yes. By the way, king information about saying, okay, we'll be a drug test at this point, which enables kind of just makes mockery of the entire system, but it's not the first time Tom that we've said the system and the sport of the top needs a bit of a shake-up does the shakeup doesn't needs to be something different. I don't see anybody doing. I mean, London marathon, Wilmer, major, I think, in London marathon, a great they seem to fund testing do more stuff, but it needs more than just testing. Because testing is fairly point MRs near catches a whole Notre high profile people, but there's a lot more doing wrong. Again, call not more. There needs to be some kind of no idea what it is. But what point does athletics? Just lose all of its credibility, like at what point when you when you watching the, the marathons acquainted this is the women's marathon when you're watching the women's marathon in Tokyo. What point you go? Okay. I accept. They are the one-two-three because that one-two-three much. Although by by the way, the situation, she's not lost. The metals metal from don't think some metal either from Rio. I think they're both still got the medals. Let's run say since some going, Coa both fell EPS EPO tests after the impacts the needs to prove their opening prior to twenty sixteen in considering we've heard nothing on that front regarding soon going tested positive two years ago. It's unlikely that she ochre we'll, we'll be forced to give up those medals. So they're still gold until madness. Yeah. I saw them both running running down holding hands crossing the line. James Williams like this story image that see how it's going to roll this week, actually. Shifting isn't he is shifting James Williams oath to run a is attacking the world record is, is a world record fasters. No time. Is it will best owned bit confused over this. For lands end to join a growth if things go to plan say athletics weekly. He will consign the controversial current Mark the history. So James Williams, two-thirty marathoner from Belgrave, who need an extraordinary performance to beat the world, recurrent world record, which is nine days, two hours and twenty six minutes sets by rid two thousand two athletics. Weekly say on the dubious circumstances. And with any of the stringent record wreck ratification requirements needs today. I'm afraid I don't know anything else about that. No, I don't either. But nevertheless, he has Sal, I'm sure I saw James Williams that said, look. I'm gonna forget about any questions about that record. And I'm going to try and beat that record that record is nine nine days in two hours, which is like a hundred miles a day with all the climbing. I'm looking on Strada. Hey, we'll put linked to straw, Instagram nothing on the show notes. I mean day, one hundred sixty five kilometers with two thousand one hundred percent. I mean is two hundred thirty seven point eight kilometers with hundred with fifty meters day, three hundred forty eight kilometers with a mile of I mean. Toy. He's eight off record to be. But he's going for it. So, you know, massive massive good luck to James, and we'll have on the shows are to be great talk. And it's one of those things is that as there's not many things you look at these days ago. Is that really possible like holidays? People could run lines Jolla grow, and they might take a month to do it or whatever these new things, but it's positive causes possible, but to do in that time my word, lazing very, very impressive. Speaking of doing things in good times, should we podium in up to it together act together to the podium, you need to make sure that your marathon is on our events pages. I set marathon talk dot com. Upload your finish time by Monday night. Yes, it is stacked in fifth place at the Liverpool rock and roll marathon in three seventeen fifty nine on the men's podium is Daniel Matthews. My first marathon enjoyed it ran on feel. Was originally aiming for sub four for what but training went real? I'm super happy with that result. Ran three seventeen. Well, dodge grant grant, go great as going. Yeah. Okay. And number marathon, ran three fifteen twenty one to four place. Highs and lows wind Rayo son and sick hall roll the dice went I want thirty two hoping for three oh five no point dying wondering is on the cards. There we go. He says he didn't carry defying a five year old for the five hundred and fifty meters. Evidently beyond my sorry state. She climbed down the line brilliant. In third place at the Liverpool rock and roll. And again, just nipping under three hours to fifty nine fifty two Andrew ferns, my third hometown, interro my fifth in total. My first sub three with seven seconds to spare. Oh, actually, Kevin Francis. He's second and third second and first of the podium this week. So what I'll do is. I'll read Kevin jobs. Oh, and then I'll give it. I'll give the Rio fifth-place shout whenever he's done. He's done now. I see. First and second first and second. So e was top of the table this week, Kevin Francis in Maratha, who ran to forty one fifty nine didn't they run quicker for the first team to make up for the wind on the turn even effort throughout despite a poster up guys to bring it home. That's very well run pace. Kevin riches. The top this week's marathon tour. Listen to Kevin frontiers. Kevin FRANZ with Kevin just jumping in was pulled Benham me, who should have been in six place, Edinburgh than who ran three thirty three nineteen. He said, aiming for a PB of three twenty six Heitmann, tear wouldn't Dan, who section the star. Like a maniac. Ali rush bloom, okay? Time for the women's podium in fifth place. In fact, let's check them. Alison leave a manage telling muddy Fisher. Survey. And then we go core in fifth, lace, Alison Tonle, Edinburgh, marathon festival. Three fifty one twenty eight officially. She says, windy, even on the Tom Williams just a bit breezy meteorological schedule fourth place. Vivian for the end of marathon, also three forty five eighteen a painful positive split in sunburn sunburn in Scotland, but great support from family and friends in third-place amount of sterling in Liverpool three thirty eight fifty five. Great marathon, course with life bans, every mile in second place, Mattie, Fisher number Matha vessels, three thirty six flats not quite the target, thanks to vicious headwind, from mile eighteen solid baby PB in a lovely coastal route more to comes as many top the women's podium at MIR survey gin apologies me if I've got surname, long, Vermont city marathon, three hours, twenty four minutes. Thirty seconds start the day with no particular goal in mind and had a great day despite muggy weather zoomed by. My husband about eighteen but quite a PR, but a great day night, and could work presuming pass. Your husband really. Really? Talk podium. This week on training with a we'd give I tell you what really we thought we'd have word with me for my taper four com rates. I'm covering me about what is it twelve days out from comrades with hard work in the Bank, and no time left to do it? If he's into taper weeks can be a treacherous time for those of us with powerful, inner homers, the devil makes work for Eitel hands. And suddenly, we have more time and less focus, and the temptation can to get the party started a little early only to arrive on race day feeling worse than you did on your first training done that so many times, I've just totally let go between my last kind of key and the race. And honestly, I'm sure I've been fitter. I'm sure but mama conditions gone down at toilet, and I felt worse than ever going into the race. So this word with myself, and we talked about sleep earlier, in an ideal world sleep would never be compromised. In the real world. It be hit and miss, and Mike to seventy four and there's just nothing you can do about it. And I've never been one four I know some people might go and sleep downstairs, or whatever for the kids in potted, Selim sound like I've never been one even where we do have kids. I've never been one for taking it that far. So that is, is, as my four year old's going to win four in the morning and want to read a story. And that's kind of it, but you can't commit to slight sleep hygiene, so phones downstairs. I think we're both very good at that you'll get. Something I struggle with minimizing that caffeine in the afternoon, the evening often cheeky flat. Why in the afternoon Cup of tea watching the talian evening, caffeine does really impact your sleep and something else? I can middle of the road of turning a brain offers early as possible. So just answer a few emails, or I'll just do this eight o'clock or nine o'clock, and that can be Indian eat real disciplined to do that as well. Because, like yes reasons for reasons for not doing it often can be so strong that you feel like you need to do it. Yes. Simple things like lock the phone away. You know, look the way I've done this number years, just put the phone away. Don't even take up says, not even near me. That's really good. If I try do all the thing for me, which is weakest of all of those threes. Third one turn your brain offers earliest possible. So I can easily beat my phone away, and I can easily not have caffeine afternoon evening. Just switching flicking that switch in your head. That says, okay. It's time to shut off now that I'm gonna read a book. I'm going to watch something on television super engaging. Number two movement. Too many of us lead, and this definitely is me extremely century lives in the absence of exercise in the absence of anything's going to go for a run. Some of us, this is definitely me. I have a proper office job where I'm sat on my backside all day. And if I end up getting attacks you'll get your lift of the train station, sing Traynor deriving in work and driving home, I can do you know I could do. I don't wear it anymore. When I used to wear Fitbit quite a bit, I could do. Fifteen hundred or two thousand steps on Felli said today, which banning anything and so, and it's really important, I think, to keep moving during your taper excise goes down. But keep moving joints, moving, especially for your old codger, like me or you. So I think using human power movement. Whenever possible is really powerful so stairs, instead of the escalator, working to the station or getting stop earlier exactly that does help that taper lethargy little bit still moving, and you don't feel quite so. Lethargy and little India, little shed a whole time walked to go to a cafe for lunch or something at work, walk to further away, or whatever it is. We have time for goodness sake. Don't do anything new like sometimes played badminton while I'm doing that tape week, and I can fall into the trap of doing some of those things like the weekend, we went to like a village fater friend's house. And there was like this. Kids boys, versus girls, kids, tug-of-war, then it was like mums versus downs tug of war, and I'm like, no, don't go near the tug of war with all those really competitive dad's about twice your size. That is not what you do doing during Tapeh week. That is really right? Stress plan planner leaf you travel requirements really imports that an in fact booked, our seats on the plane earn today, so that we'd definitely sick next to each other RAV waiting for paid about thirty quid or something seeds Bravo, waiting until the checking opens when it's free. But then we sit next to each other then that causes stress all the way they're back. So we get your race and travel stuff done. Avante really important speak to people who've done the race, y'all doing before an ask them some things about it. You know, like how long was the star like how do you have to keep the toilets or what's the bag drop like all those things to try and minimize the, the race based stress in advance schedule. I'm terrible. I mean, they call me last minute dot com work, and it is terrible for blogging, the last minute, and that does cause stress. I really have to work hard to not just leave it. And also schedule, some fun things through family and friends. You've probably got a little bit more time to do a few more things that we all went to the similar cinema yesterday. Sunday and watch. What are we secret life parents to was really good? But the four of us, and I just think scheduling some fun stuff can really reduce the stress and, and keep your elax, which is mind off the race. Good. Finally, I think nutrition maximize your to. It's really important because you can't one of the things I find a taper with nutrition. Is that if you get your nutrition wrong when you're easing down into a race not only does it make you feel bad like over? I mean, from a health point of view. Yes. Oh, not, not psychologically. But I find if I think need to eat more or try any differently, actually, doesn't really help me feel in, in really ready to tackle the racer going to absolutely looking. If you're like me, you've got partial for. Terrible food and stuff. So, like I will left him own devices, just junk, and it's terrible and noise me and like many people, I think all the time, I'm training and focused. I've got a goal. I'm really coming when you could food on John bladder, then assume as you like, great works on thanks fee up in that kind of week two weeks three weeks between your training peaking in the race. You can just go to parts a little things next week. We've got. Monday, Tuesday meeting with work, and we're going out for dinner in the evening. Normally for me. We've gotten dinner would have a bottle of wine ever been a laugh and probably have a bit too much during. And then our junk food never really late night. So I'm gonna I'm driving to it because I know from driving. I wouldn't even have wondering street water if I'm driving, and that will create a situation where I won't make those batch about going to bed early, and food, and you can undo so much, and it's, it's so easy, isn't it? So really reflect on what's working training. I think so often eaten ten long runs in training in certain way before or whatever it is you felt great. And then for some reason, I mean you did this to be fair comrades did you remember you had, like a pasta party the night before the toilet, eight times to thirty eight times? We never done it in training, you know, you react well to, to ever as gluten posture, what we will ever it is. And they Scoffing scuff in the past the back the night before I know difficult when you at somebody else's has exactly I need I need to eat something. But what? But it's home reasoning like my wife and I can your wife is well would have said in that situation. Sorry. No, it will make upset my stomach possibly your little bit more like me. I didn't know I'm very socially most. I feel grossly uncomfortable. No socialist situations saying no to something checks cheesecake. Oh, yes, please. I'm trying to please people being social. So when they we big I feel really uncomfortable. So, you know, me to say no. Yeah. You've only put in five months of training for the biggest to run. And then somebody force feed you like Manton of pass the night before, and you feel so bad that you can't say no. Here's. A couple of introductions you might notice already. I'm not Morton Tomo Holly. My name is login, and I work on designed for marathon took stay, I'm here interviewing main guest, Darren and Finn darned is the author of several running books and he's being math and took a few times poor to tell us more about these. He was on episodes, one hundred seventy eight hundred seventy nine talking by his first book running with the Kenyans discovering, the secrets of the forces people on earth. He came back on two hundred seventy two and two engine seventy three to talk about his next book, the way of the runner journey into the obsessive world of Japanese running when he's not writing books. He is a journalist of the guardian, and he is, of course, runner to listeners might be interested in his rather impressive math and two fifty. And they he is joining us to talk about his latest book, which is on may the sixteenth twenty nineteen and is cooled the rise of the ultra runners journey to the edge of human endurance were Madeira Island. Could you start by reminding the listeners briefly about your running background and how you got into running? Well, I mean I ran quite a bit as a kid I was. County a cross country and track. So I was going to run in the Olympics wasn't that good. And then about seventeen eighteen distracted by other things, and ended up giving it up. And then. Well, fill the time it was perhaps choices, but now looking quite young any thirty five and I suddenly, just realized time was owning out to do these filters fulfill all these running Bishen I'd been harboring all these years. So I put my running shoes back on and just got back into ten ks half. Marathons and things and then ended up, I was a journalist by this point working the guardian I was kind of had in my head. I'd love to write a book, and then I just came up with this idea that I realized, I remember looking online and couldn't believe nobody had written a book about the Kenyans where they lived and how they train their lies like, and I'd had this fascination Kenyan going back into being a teenager. And so just go that'd be that'd be a book. I'd love to read their loan. Right. So I picked it around. And go got go an advanced to Kenya for six months, and many more more of ins-. Well, I think I'm sure many of the listeners as I have, and it was definitely a great, great gap to fill really fascinating learning more bites how the Kenyan canyon system worked. And how mazing the runners from there and I mean, progressing from that led utility mindlessness will lead to the second one. Why did you move onto the Japanese after the Kenyans? Mean partly, it was the publishes winning Kenyans did very well came from you to not running. And they were suggesting ET appears good. Joke felt like a very similar story big differences, as well. But I wanted to do something different. And then I remembered having been in Japan in that spell when I wasn't running and witnessing naked in which is. Long distance relay race, and being amazed by how To's and how the whole town had come out and become part of if you weren't running supporting my brother visiting my brother who lived. There wasn't a run of the he he was running in the race. Doubt into that more and found out as a whole fascinating world built around accidents and the corporate system in Japan. And how running is such a huge thing in Japan, but they purchase a completely different way. And every now and then we get glimpses of this with Yuki carry G or. The Japanese records broken a couple of times in the last year and the mazing results in half marathons and things. And, and so I just decided that, that would be a complete contrast to Kenya and fascinating contrast as well. Something again, nobody had written about I was, I was intrigued by so I just thought that was an actual follow. Absolutely. Oversee listeners will probably many of them would have read and other episodes. They can can go back. Obviously, we'll have to resist temptation to talk about those. Ski. What inspired you to write the book by ultra? Yeah. So it's role that time, I, I consider myself, although Olympic dreams that long since vanished. Fairly serious. Whenever anyone talks about ultra running. I kind of thought it is. I. I, I mean you look at the time we were running, you work out how fast running it's twelve minutes and mile, that's not much walking. And that's not really running as I hadn't really hadn't really appeal to me. But then I did one. And met some really brilliant people on on the ground, and it was a six day race stage race. So you really get time on those races to get to know the other people, and, and it just really piqued my interest and I realize it wasn't a take my kind of nerdy running hat off. Here was. From purity running point of view wasn't still was interesting because it is an opening isn't just about running a slight in some ways, it's a misnomer. It's running is, is part of it, but it's a whole adventure, a whole journey whole experience life experience, going even one onto is a is a life experience. They with you going into another way beyond running the running five percent. There's the eating is the war is the hiking, emotional breakdowns support from your crew the landscapes so many elements of it. So I realized once I realized that and also the other thing that would track to me was the fact that is such a booming sport of the moment when I dug around in the figures in the last ten years as being like thousand percent increase in the number of participants, and that's globally, and that's been steadily rising even before them, but it's been a real boom in the last ten years. And I just thought what what's going on? It's quite an extreme thing to do one hundred miles, or even fifty miles is, it's an extreme things people doing it must be some real toll must be some meal appeal. And I just thought that was interesting dynamic going explore. And let's see running does play a role in all trending and depends on the distance, you get like fifty K or even one hundred gay trackways a lot more road races. Lot more running if you're doing one hundred miles in the mountains running less if you're doing. Three thousand. Something like that, where it's pure survival. The running becomes element, and it becomes more by your mentality and your perseverance new insurance. In your will to carry on, really. So how important was it for you to go on a your own personal running journey said, dude and one and I'm not sure. Might want to say more about what it was the Meiji do the first Alturas. Well, but in the book you interview, the real ultra stars, could, you still have written the book of you had just spoken to them and not not run on yourselves? There's a great quote. I hope that were just because you're bed met, you offer -nology phonology bird expert, and I found that in Kenya. If you ask the Kenyans way, Kenyans, good, one is give you a seventh because we ran to school because we have a passion for running, and it's the same ultra is about the experience of why they do it different people give you different answers to really get a proper insight. I find just gotta do it. And it was one of the race. I'd been to watch the twenty four hour trackways in to the before I did. And I was trying to ask this guy who done it before was preparing for the race. What it was. What it was that what you find out there. And he said, you just have to do it. Just do it. And that really made me think God, what you're going to discover out there. It's going to be very personal in different people go completely different experiences to me, and so I do a lot of people. It's not just my experience. I wanted it to be my experience into with journalists experience. Now, you say some of the top ultra news in the world. Also, some other people who were mid, Pat renner's back pattern as people who were supporting the runners race directors agents. All people surrounding the sport, and talk to them about the issues doping. Cheating. The different types of races controversies on entering all these kind of things, but and actually initially, I wanted to be more generous dick exploration than my own journey. I don't own any would just be in the background reading everything together, but I realized eight experiences were so extreme. They were just so. I just wanted to write about them, and I felt like. The bring the kind of insight that you can't get just from asking somebody about somebody is. This. They're going to sit down and tell you every minute detail. I just felt like. And also, I was the threat that kind of tied everything together because I would go to different countries different runners. Come on different people, but they would appeal once the, the key story going to find this thread between the whole of the whole book, I realized after was me and as much as I had been tended to so much about myself. That's how it ended up it does it does make for a good read, actually, because it becomes it does make a bit of a page. You are wondering what will happen next run and make the finish. And what's going to happen? So it does it does it does work. Well. Doesn't come across. I realize interesting because say I was of my fairly serious Cup on. But I would tend up at a race, even even more so much. But half marathon down a race look around and see him I going to be ten till five here. See my rivals. Ultra ultra runs often, I was almost right near the Bank. I mean a real different experience. I was not as capable at all Tra and that was really interesting to me really humbling, but also told me a lot about myself and about about the juror. Drew june. Toughness, that's changed toughness of people who on the surface, you meet them at the start line. Maybe they're bit old. Oh, they don't let my in shape, and they will pass eighty miles into the run going strong on the side of the trail. And there's a there's a kind of inner strength that some people have that can really surprise you amazing. It does come across in the book. Posse person yourself. I think it's. Some real casualties running out trace. If you can keep going or even just gonna watch one million. People really struggling does seem like there will always be drama after say from from reading it. So you talk about how you how you wanted to bring across from infant, huge range people and experiencing yourself, who hoping the book will be is for people who've never tried, and ultra curious or you hoping that the, the kind of the pro end and the restaurant is who read it as well. What, what are you hoping people will get out of him remorse books for wider audience? I think so. But then I also want to pass the test, and that people really that scene in the Kenyans I've had, I've had some people living in Kenya weapons into ends up being confronted with them. They like. And the same with the attorney, I won't the furnace, like reading this captured this is like, but really I'm not really writing them for people with the fascination of human capable of humans doing that. I never be a large proportion of the readers will be run. But they might be altering they might be people who are considering all show, people who just light high was what those what would you? I think that's a question, almost overriding question in the Kenyans it was wire. They say good here. It's why people even doing this because that was the question I had I just didn't see the attraction for killing myself for twenty four hours or forty hours or even longer in one go just keep going through ridiculous environments that are not built for any. But there is an attraction, there is there is something going on there. I think anyone with fascination in human really human existence will could could find interest in there. They may not pick it up. So when who's got no interest in running, but I feel that if they did they'd still find. I can see that amount of to admit, I am not an experienced entrepreneurs a tool, and I find absolutely fascinating. I can't see myself passing it to people who don't know about it being been oyster. Safeway. To find out about I'm wondering, whether it makes you want to run a Notre n- more or less. Gosh, I makes me kind of more fascinated to follow it. It probably does make me a little bit more. I have to say I mean it's not wholehearted. Absolutely. Because I think it makes you realize even more high tough, it is. So, I think because you always then wide open. You didn't have these already knowing what you're getting in full. So I think my always going to more wide open. Makes me think Mike nece super super hard. But then I love the, the feeding of SaaS faction everyone has at the end of conquering those difficult moments. I remember marathon run. Quite a lot of Harper seemed so much more just the emotions and feelings of so much bigger and then do hundred. Marriage and feels the job. Really? I mean, I'm not saying any harder in, in some ways my going forward, I've just as much desire to run a pass merit and to do one hundred miles fully. So I fully. Fully respect and, and still attracted to Mertens. But in terms of that emotional state, you get into doesn't is no comparison, try new going to go to very very dark places and it's not going to last for ten minutes or twenty minutes. It's gonna last day. So where do you stand on the debate of runners love to debate, which is the hottest distance new with the, the aerobic pain of the eight hundred versus the speed, endurance of the marathon? And I think marathon, versus ultra is another one that people who is curious, if I work where the Houston, now on the earth depends on how hard your how competitive you're so if you're just joking any distance and the further you go, the heart is going to be like, anyone could juggle annual but a lot of people jog a mile. But if you trying to break four minute mom, for example, and you're just trying to finish an ultra birth, and then then when talking about the a whole different skill set. And like I say running is ultra running is not even really about running. So I think impure Huntington's when a fast marathon is just as hard as winning a competitive ultra. In terms of running intense. Willpower, and you landings about yourself, d- don't know. Because in American, you still running most people still running at some point to some degree. You're not in this point where you kind of sat down where you like a hole in the middle of the night on top of mount in the wind, howling around, you starting to get hypothermia dealing with situations, which no Vining this known bending abilities longer. Matt mean anything, you're what matters you ability to poll of up. Tell you, you can do this get going. And so that's a whole different skill set. So you just testing different things. I think I mean if you kidding a on a fifty mile to on, it's probably similar to American tens of he's, he's gotta train phrase going to be fit. And then he's got to plan his strategy and he's got to go for it. But once you get to the really long distances or if you're amid Pat rented, like with the ultra, and it's just all about mind, eventually, you start off feels easy. The first four five hours, you're joking along eating food, enjoying the scenery and feels fine. But, you know, it's coming some point something is going to happen say, what, what makes it great ultra because eve. Evokes you running fairly high standard. But then when you converted you weren't able to run as, as high up the package, you had been on on the roads. So what do you think makes great ultra? One thing, some people just discover when they start going further that, just to physically you just have the ability to keep going. So they might they might have been ten case of Mertens a bit, better Americans. And then they just find try and ultra just right at the front, some people just have an, I'm not sure what that is just slow twitch muscles, and even slow at which. Whatever. But, but then there's this whole mental side of, of turning, and I think what I realized eventually is quite emotional. So I would have real highs in the race would be feeling amazing like really just buzzing and passing people skipping through the field. And dinky I was going to get into the top ten and win the race. And then suddenly I'd crash I'd be all upset, and I'd be crying towns multiple times on Saturday crying, and I realize that the really good. Auburn is just keep on this level emotional level. They're coming they're doing well they'll just keep on the practicalities. I need to do that when they're not feeling good. They just tell themselves you need to do this. You need to do that. Maybe if I carried on maybe that comes with experience speaking NICKY, Spinks the other day. And she said initially she was much more up and down. Now she just this whole kind of system, which goes through, and her mind starts playing games with she knows through experience, that she's being here before and she knows how to deal with it. And I was one race manage to successfully. Not how crisis and it was all about just staying mentally strong. So, yeah. Anyone who can stay level, emotionally and mentally level. But the emotions that interesting because I realize that the end of the whole experiment experience just how up and down I'd been compared to the, the really good. One is Damien hall is a good example, any bit of dessert film, the dog film about his attempt to come top five in the which I went spoiler. But at any point in that race he looks the same. He's talks the same sounds just like he's out for one. Everything's fine joking. If you'd see me at different points, it'd be like, two different people. So, so he's he's, he's very good. I think he has that mentality just build stay level when through the crisis, but also to good times, and that's interesting that you might not know into two starts as say, some people just naturally. Good physically. And then there's the mind element which one on ninety ago and then say that sounds like visibility to Prentice as well. So even if you get your first one ROY sounds like improve experience in his training, say my training amazing. But I live in Devon's, and we have the coastal trails another thing is descending 's trail skills parenting skills. They're big factor. My first couple of series travel races. I was losing so much found on the descent. And then I had this experience by learn how to run dissents and suddenly, I was making ground with no more effort. So, and some of the gray Aldrin's, particularly the one is famous descending. I think that's a real a real skill and it's. Really good fun as once you get good at the sending I mean racing down a mountain some of those dissents can lost out just running down down down down down, skipping jumping. It's like a friend Tom pain who's in the book here. He sings the Marian brothers himself. He's going down the hill to make it even more. He's a computer. Definit- skill and people probably seem videos on the amazing videos of killing a doing I mean I found near and post definitely something I want to perfect learn improve. But does look mazing when it's done. Well. Mean you can move from being hopeless to being pretty good. And as we've mentioned, you've covered the Kenyan and Japanese runners literacy ultra stars seem to be from the US in Europe while we say, more canyon and Japanese alternatives, all Japanese altruism, they tend to be the. Stay on the roads more than the trousers and good trial was in Japan, but the top Japanese Trevon tend to be one hundred K time time races on, on flat. Concrete lutes, which is generally Mike experience, Japan, the way to run. In Japan is round small concrete loops. The Kenyans Kenya's Nydia paeans berry upturning exists, and I do document my in the book of my attempt to introduce Kenyans and running to each other. And there's a whole variety of reasons why that doesn't go smoothly. Some of it being. Financial Kenyans idioms running purely as a job. It says way of making a living making making money and the moment there is money, no training, but it's not in there in the same way that it isn't marathoning, and it's not easy for the Kenyans to understand, they'll get the heads around, and they also have this idea that the further you because you get more to run American generally a half marathon and a tank as the prize money gets more the shorter the distance. They had this idea that ultra running, if you're gonna fifty miles should each being paid twice, but you get one American doesn't, but I think there'd be totally capable of doing at least at least up to send point. I think like I say, once you get to one hundred miles and mentality and running becomes smaller positive thing. Can use going to have less than vantage? But, but at the shorter ones we're running is still a big part of it. And then there is the famous comrades marathon in South Africa, which is about ninety kilometers on a road a hilly road but still road and they can use go down and do that race. They usually think they can do the back of American training. And so don't actually do that well and one. None of the very top Kenyans are going to go down and do it. Whereas the top South African is running. Marathons South Africans actually pretty reason, you don't see them running marathons because we'll training ultra but on the road and basically comrades marathon. So there's some amazing South African Ultraman is just spend the whole year preparing comrades. And so they beat became his. But there is there is definitely an unknown element now. I mean the race I tried to get can use the north face fifteen California, which is a fifty mile trail hilly trello trip not mountainous hilly, but I think it would co, and I think that's the kind, of course, I've area, I think they could do really well and. And so I tend to out, but we got scuppered by the wildfires in California last year. But we got maybe maybe next year. Yeah. Say it's, it's a really interesting experiment in the book as you say, part of it is not knowing about it. And part of it is the money son's little logical to me run for the win more sense. Fair enough. I think what, what do you think you more? He anyone. Well, that is true. So I mean as you saying that a lot of things very well known in the book for in your journey to qualify for the UTM the altruism on blow. Which is kind of major it burns, it self as the world summit of tro running, and it's a lot of hype and sponsorship, brandit. So that's quite contrast to allure of the low key in more, like wild side of ultras. Is there a danger of losing these elements most shit come in? We're actually would it be better thing if more big brands, good involve prize money and people knew about them. That's an interesting one. I mean, not I think both true. I mean, I think in mode running trail, any, this is you have both at the same time, and I think I think it would be great to get Mason even bigger with the athletes being more professional getting Kenyans involved making, maybe some kind of series. I mean, the different competing bodies and groups trying to set up their own. So there's Salam the golden trail series, then you Tim, Bs hitting their trail World Series and it feels like because there's no over riding governing body. It's fragmenting a little bit. Which seems a shame and is being led by the sponsors. It'd be great if there was. I mean I know the Ida bland kind of taking tro running and ultra Winningham board. But I feel like it would be great if there was a more coherent series, but at the same time, you don't want to lose the quest roots, racism, sometimes the real adventures where, you know, your go to navigate yourself, you can. There's a real like I said, the first race I met some amazing people and you do spend gets an oak people spend time, people, particularly in the smaller races, because you're much more of a community bond between your grades and just some people. The whole spirit of ultra running is about getting out there into nature getting Las getting testing self against the world. In some ways that feels a little bit contradictory to getting sponsorships brands in creating a lot of hullaballoo. So I think there's space for both an I enjoy, I do both in the race in the book, I do some very small local races. And I do I do Tim be which is one of the biggest. I enjoyed them by equally. I think I think I had great experiences in and option. But I really liked to see it become more professional. I'd love to see in a cage fairways. Millon say obviously, you're part of the title is the rise of ultra running. Do you think it is still a nation will ever hit the mainstream and yet could it be in? Would you. Of the Paris limpets might be one hundred two hours. I know a couple of Ultraman is a win. Don't get find them get themselves getting hustle skis. They told me that, that goal there already had that it's going to have already the young enough to be it's twenty twenty four they're kind of that's their big goal in the distances. The one hundred Kato world trail championships with once about one hundred and that's getting bigger each year. So, yeah, it's definitely becoming more movement stream. And I think as a spectator sport with with drone footage and running through these amazing landscapes. I mean is very what you're. As an event now on television, because those kind of, you know, when these long, but the Heke or even a cricket match or base where you can dip in outfit includes TV for twelve hours. You can you can come back who's winning go away. They can cut to the other events pick, but it is very watchable. And also the, the drama is quite we talked about the drugs. But even the elite level, you get runners flying suddenly crash, very dramatic. And you get these people who minutes minutes behind catching up, then it's never foregone conclusion, it's in some ways, it's, it's more exciting than American often, you do, get dramatic marathons but often when someone makes a break to get away that clear, you know, there's not that much more that can go wrong feeling stroke ultra and someone being clear. I mean, you Tim. Shoe was classic example. About ten of the stars were leading, and they all ended up dropping out. At some point, all sorts of things happen to the manga stung by be nothing fell over twice as Neo cone. Other runners just completely had came complete existed. And we're like, claps the walking. I mean, there's real drama plus potential drama that I think would be great, and also Olympic event, so there to showcase in some ways from the organize point-of-view showcase their cities and landscapes. And you go, you got an opportunity of your most beautiful national park and the whole world is watching the whole world wanna go on holiday. Run it. We're coming. Just Finally I keep too much longer. But we took about the different sides of ramming, whether they're low key or the sponsors. But seems another side when you're running, this can beauty and using eating and chatting people and the peaceful landscapes. But then this extreme suffering and is, is, is suffering necessary. And do you think that, that she would be more of a competition to be the hardest? I mean, the Marathi Saab claims to be the toughest Barclays. Buckley, marathons, which seemed to be the toughest where no one can most people have finish? It is, is suffering really key part and will that continue to be to kind of race to get even tougher. I mean I feel like. Many different brunches to running. So you do get like I said, most popular as the most the biggest ultras in the world is comrades, which is not that extreme. Kilometers on a road. It's still a big effort to close. But yeah, it's not in the league of the Buckley marathon, where five thirty three people finished in over forty years, or something like that. Mercy is a lot of the years nobody finishes the race. I mean there are racist like that. I mean, I find that whole brunch of ultra on its own these races that are just so extreme. They're just there to the challenge is just finish. The spine race is another one jasmine Paris from this year to me that if I was going to say the race, I would really really, really wouldn't want to, I think. Two hundred and sixty eight miles in January along the way. Just I, I think I'd try the longest race in the world, which is the self transcendence three thousand one hundred mile on a single city block in New York. But so, so I didn't I didn't there's more is trying to do buckling, Barclays kind of its own. It's no world. I think it'd be hard to. There's a there's a race in a tunnel. I think it's a two hundred dollars as in the tunnel. Going to keep coming up with these extreme challenges and things that. Going to push you to the I think the biggest growth in running is more is more in the ultra mountain running things that Jim be the western states is the big one in the US other that has a limited field, but racist similar to that. Mrs that offer entries of that are growing. And I think suffering is a big part of that. But it's still a race. It's still something. You're gonna start out thinking, you've got a decent chance of finishing. I there's also this also basin. Interesting to see what, what else people come up with what is next few is going to be another ultra if say, which is it another false math, which sounded like it was still on the list? What's the next thing you? Yeah, I haven't seen nothing planned race wise. Ultraman is quite often. Disappointed. When I say, I'm quite keen to go back and do American, but partly because I feel like I could pretty much time but maybe only one more time. I know what I'm saying getting because I thought I was getting thirty five wasn't but while I'm still young enough to be able to do that. But I definitely will be doing all again, for sure. I mean, I'm ready jealous when I see people lining up for one hundred dollars, I know where they're going and what I think I'm one of these people do. Throughout the year. I can't see myself ever during the morning, not even that seems to often. But. I just I just say, I'm quite emotional. Takes a lot emotionally. Have line. I've got a whole series of. Running camps, which I organize, I was just gonna plug matching tell us because now book outrunning start this year. I'm doing an ultra running training camp in south Devon, which is. Basically any not. It's not super hardcore it's too long days back to back, and we'll look traveling technique and. Definitely downhill to take me, one of my strong points. And have some fun with that. And and you know. Fuelling strategies and all that kind of thing and just talk about people who interested gets no me and spend time with me, grilling me on, on things. I've learned along the way. So that's I have a website, which is called the way of the remedy called. And I was going to offer a ten percent discount on that camp to American listeners. Thanks very much special. Gift. Thank you from us. The listeners we'll put the link to that ownership knows as well. So they say when if anyone decides to sign up just mentioned that I heard this American tool. That's good enough. That's the secret code. Thank you. So finely you not totally. It's not going to be up just all tras. So maybe one of your future events might be a mild mile. Yvonne to the several times before having been on. So if you had the six months, perfect training just for the moment, just one hundred just flat as I can at the moment. What speed but you do interesting. So I remembered, I said, four thirty five bef-. Yes. Now. Having done altering training think that's going to slow me down. And also the fact that I'm older. I keep going on about it. On listening. It makes me feel. I'd be slower than before anything against that is. I, I talk about it in the. I do get mud running fungus a lot better. Actually, my park ones being even though I haven't trained tool specifically for them even while I was in the middle of ultra running training, I was running close to my fusses over. In the form work, I've been doing being it's been brilliant, and there's information on that in the book, but I still think I'd be a little bit slower than bef-. Then, then I imagine it would be. Just going to be more this. Perfect training. I've run for twenty nine mile in my notes in Maine, but then I was much younger, I'm gonna go for four forty slight slowdown K E are going to be running. She doesn't just because Liz planning on here is a she has thirty four but she also has a four forty maybe you've meeting outcome, second slow down sped up. I know. But let's, let's say maybe she had the same coined Voda, but that sounds very reasonable. So we'll, we'll put you want that as well. So you book on the sixteenth of may were linked to their thank you very much for, for coming to speak to us. Thank you. Right. Close out Marwell. Yup. To well, looking for some, some races holies got this dick Yetlis idea that her should should race each other over. I think it's ten miles. We think would be an ideal distance. Just as a fun night. Because we probably even the matched. So the longer we go, of course, in distance sees the superior specimen, given her tr- about Jesus keeps on grinding. Isn't she? What's the loser? The forfeit loser. What the other one is like face to attack. We, we haven't gone that far yet. He needs something you need a little bit of spice you need a little bit because otherwise, you'll just below it was no Spicer. You involved a needs to be a little bit of something to keep honest to make sure you both try. I wouldn't need it try. Anyway. So we haven't we haven't found anything yet. But tonight, I'm going to watch at my daughter's sing with the kingdom require which I'm really looking forward to actually. Yeah. The kingdom require fabulous choir that sang. I think they sang at the wedding of Harry and Meghan. Yes, it did. Yeah. They're, they're huge apps, del massive, and they sing amazingly well. And my daughter's school won a competition to sing with on the national tool. Wow. I know. So tonight's the night. That we are gonna go and watch. So we're all a bit emot-. Great. Yeah. We are looking to it billion in boom massage. Singing gospel choir. Pretty likey. Tell them Tom so excited. He's falling down the stairs. The office closing up everyone's going. Well, that's good luck to. That's absolutely amazing. I will be, of course grappling Mina Homa between now and June knife back next week show. We can catch up little bits. And by the way, I think we've got Steve way lined up for four conversation for next week shows no pushy, Steve. So podiums. We had these races that you'll basing in running over the next four weeks. Again, I think this weekend coming up so diverse June in western Sydney marathon, the Stockholm marathon. Also on the first of June delay plans, Coniston male marathon, that Derry wound city marathon, cork city marathon style valley marathon, all on Sunday, the second of June. That's a busy weekend. Nice. Then we can after subtly eighth of June the Heineken race to the tower. The roll Seattle marathon Sunday night, the strut third marathon, the life of the Hampshire, Hoppy. And of course, the comrades marathon. Who? The following weekend. It's the Manitoba marathon. That sounds good. The T alpine marathon, Nixon Stein, son. The fifteenth of June Sunday, the sixty nine and then in we can fall on Saturday. Twenty second of June. I think is the Saturday American I've always wanted to do we probably in. Every probably is one of the first marathons when I first into running, I saw, like in a magazine somewhere and really liked to do. Maybe. Two times the problem kids, and it's a nice place to go to Trump's. Oh. And we can do weekend away to Trump. So. To run the marathon. Share the better. Oh times single. Right. I've actually have to run for my train. I hate running between. So let's rip out there. I'm williams. He's Martine yelling in that was Maratha talk.
Castle Rock Season 2 Recap and Wrap-Up
"Misery arrived October. Twenty third on Hulu Castlerock and the ten episode run for season. Two just finished up last week. We finally have answers but also questions so many questions. That's what we're talking about on this week's Stinger in a world where your friends and Co workers don't understand your movie or TV obsession or DB obsession where you just want that someone anyone to share your binge watching it watching it Shannon and favor are here for you. Your wait is over Stinger I starts now now. Hi Everyone I'm Shannon and I'm fade Dra. Welcome to Stinger. TV movie podcast if this is your first time here we're we're so glad you're here because this is going to be an awesome episode right Shannon. I am so excited to talk about the show. We have a lot to say so so we we were fortunate enough to go to New York comic con and actually meet the cast castlerock season too so we might be a little biased. Ask because we were sort of super excited for the show even came out but if this is your first time here what we normally do. Is We kick off the show With random Chitchat Chitchat. This is it. And we're not super chatty today and then we talk about what we're watching besides our Stinger the topic of the week so we'll get to that but I I like to check in and see what Shannon's watching because Shannon I can see your list and you've got a couple of things on your list that I'm very interested posted in so I want to hear your thoughts. Tell me what you've been watching okay. Great I watched a bunch of movies which I don't i. Don't watch a Lotta movies but there's some that has gotten so much buzz because I had to give them a chance. One is Britney runs a marathon and this was released. I think over the summer. It was a limited release so it wasn't widely in theaters. Now it is on. I believe Amazon prime for free. If you have that you don't have to pay for it so so. This movie was inspirational. I was very excited. I used to run a lot and I would like to run again and the whole story is. There's a young woman I think she's maybe thirty and she's not doing very well. Health wise okay. She treats her body like shed. She drinks all the time. You know. She doesn't have very healthy habits habits thank you. She doesn't it very healthy. Habits in general enroll not even just her food and her exercise but with man you know she just goes to bars and picks up guys and she's just not in a good spot spot. She's got a roommate that kind of puts her down a little bit really doesn't value her as a person. I kinda think and the stories about her discovering running she decides like the the really great scene she walks out the door or you know and you can just see I can. I could feel I could feel her thoughts. You know she's like what the fuck am I doing. I can't do this. I can't run. Who Do I I think I am? But she says to herself just one block you know. And she sees the end of the block and as she starts to just you know her little trots not even a run really she starts six to trot along and you get that visual where they like extend the block away from you know so far etching out and I'm like Oh man I know that feeling. Yeah I know that feeling so I missed. Is She overweight. She is okay but not tremendously right. You know maybe I mean like me probably thirty to fifty pounds. I would say you know not like obese. But you know there's a point where she goes into the doctor and they show with HR and of course it says she's obese. You know like right it has to be is bullshit. You know those that's hard. It's hard she. Lots of things happen in the movie. I watched it when my daughter because we're both trying to live a healthier life and found it to be really inspirational. It wasn't like you know the best movie of the year or anything but it was. It was good. You know. Oh you get to see her whole journey you know all through her relationships and the man that she finds and how she deals with her roommate eight and all of this and I think for young girl. It's a it's a good watch. Okay I do all right yeah. They watched the Irishman. Do Tell Well I think if I knew more about Jimmy Hoffa and the mob and that kind of stuff I might have enjoyed more and my husband really liked it. I actually fell asleep so golden globe. Obi what it just might be honestly like the acting was amazing. You've got Al Pacino and Deniro an WHO's the other Joe Patchy I mean come on you know. Yeah it it was good and I just it was long and it was a little slow at times and it's not the action movie that anybody is. I used to these days and I also want to bring up the same thing with a marriage story. There were parts of that. Which is the next movie? I saw there were parts of that that I felt were just a tiny bit slow and when I was talking about it with my husband. He's like well. That's because everybody these days is just used to everything. Bam Bam Bam Bam just hitting you in the movies and move by so quickly and you know furiously it so I feel like these two movies. The Irishman and a marriage story are very strong awards contenders for us. So marriage story Adam driver scarlet Joe and I really I just watched the trailer net flicks and it totally looks like my kind of movie. The Irishman I'm not excited about. I feel like that's the kind of movie that we're supposed to want to like or safety. And it's all these big names but I mean if you like that kind of thing yes it's not a bad movie okay and the story was interesting but there was just a a lot of detail and a lot of stuff that I didn't understand what was going on and I don't know it was it was. It's not that enjoyable for me to watch. Okay that's but a marriage story is different. That's that's different. I really enjoyed that. It was a heartbreaking absolutely heartbreaking the Oh my God if Adam driver and Scarlett Johansson. Don't win something for their acting and I know I talked about awards a lot and like like we said this in our facebook group that they're largely bullshit but yeah you know they are just incredible in this. Like Adam Dry. Oh he's he's like I think my new favorite actor. He was just blew me away in this movie. It's really grown on me. As my gosh he was just he so real you know and he doesn't. It's not like Mr Stele looking. I mean he's handsome right. He's not like your typical. I don't think he's pretty weird looking. He was a marine. Did you know Oh that no. Yeah can't even see that. He was in the military oil. Yeah well this movie will make you never ever ever ever want want to get a divorce like I always had this perception that divorce when you hear about the nastiness between the lawyers and people fighting that that was those because those people hated each other and they were actually fighting about things but what. This story kind of shows is that once you actually have to do the paperwork and the legal process and how the government makes things complicated that any divorce even to people that are just like cool lessees get in a room and banged out. I'm good with this once. The lawyers get involved and the government gets involved. It is just a fiasco. It is a mess. It is is horrifying and I have new respect. I have actually several friends that are separated completely dating and having different lives but never actually got divorced and and you know and I I couldn't really under. Oh my God expensive. Holy Shit they yeah they get into that too you know and IT I. I didn't really understand. I'm like well you just get a divorce big deal. It's a piece of paper and then you can move on with your life but now I see I get it so my husband was married before me. And he always says love is grand. Divorce is one hundred grand. Yeah Yeah Yeah. So what you're saying is this is not a marriage story. This is a divorce story. Yeah spoiler yeah it's all. It's all about their divorce. But it's just so hard. It's so the Irishman and a marriage story both on net flicks. And I think the next one. You're going to talk about is also a net flicks right. Yeah the kaminsky method. I started watching this just because it's a half hour and I needed needed something. Well that's it. Yeah it's half half hour episodes. It's not a movie is it Michael. Douglas yes okay. Yes and I needed something when I was just setting in the car waiting around for my daughter that could watch a quick half hour episode and they instantly got hooked. This is also one a lot of awards. Michael Douglas's excellent in it and hand for a person who's getting older you really you really feel a lot of it. It gives me a lot of fields. he plays a s late. Seventy Seventy S. Father divorced several times. He's an acting coach now and his very good friend loses his wife and it's kind of like not really not really odd couple but there are a little bit different. They kind of have that rift going between the two of them in some ways. But you so. It's about their their story and how they are moving on with their lives and they you know calling each other when they get a date and you know it's really charming. I like it. I like a lot and it's funny and the act is gone and there's a lot of people in it you're going to be like. Oh I know her I know her. You know you just gotTa keep seeing people pop popping. It's one of those shows that everybody's in Paul risers in it Famous actress Diane. I I don't know but anyway it's one of those shows because of the famous actors in it. You're just going to be like. Oh yeah there's that person so it's fun. It's a fun. Okay okay. The next show also half hour. Series reese on net flicks. Mary happy whatever I saw this one. I didn't know I didn't see it but I saw it and I was like. Oh I wonder if that's any good yeah. I don't think you will like it. That's a very typical Sitcom you know. Setup the setup. The punchline delivered the Joe very predictable nothing to out of the ordinary and Dennis Quaid is good. He plays the dad and I really liked it because of the cast. Because I love Ashley Tisdale Dale and really not that I love but I haven't seen bridget manned learned a very long time. She's to be on. Good Luck Charlie. Up Watching go ahead so I was like oh my gosh. I haven't seen her in forever. So let's check this out and again it's a quick watch because it's eight half hour episodes. It's kind of fun for Christmas time. It's about going home and bringing her boyfriend to meet her very very conservative Demanding Kinda father and all the funny stuff that happens in in their life and the brothers and sisters and cousins hilarity ensues exactly. Yes yes so I mean it's a fun. Watch if you like that kind of thing but the what I kept mentioning about this to other other people has a laugh track in it which is so. It's like you're watching NBC. And I felt like the first time I heard it I was like wow. This is weird this kind of bizarre. Okay the marvelous us. Mrs Mazel is back. I'm probably a little more than halfway through the third season. At first I was like okay. This is a little slow. It's not as funny but then it picked up but one thing I want to say about this show. Just put it out there if anybody has any comments on this. I am not really happy with the way they are dealing dealing with racism segregation. How blacks are treated they are just? It's nineteen sixty and everybody you know. She's she's on the road with this black singer shy Baldwin and everybody's like you know integrating and staying in the same hotels and everything like this and I'm like it wasn't wasn't like that in the sixties like that. I think it depends on where you were well. They did mention once when they were in Miami and Shy Baldwin was like like well. You know now. We're in the south. I can't stay in the same hotel as you. They made like one tiny reference. But I don't know I I just don't I would love to hear anybody else who's listening anybody's opinion opinion of that because it rubs me the wrong way. That's all I'm going to say. Okay Fair and now I would like to talk about my new favorite show It's called the wars storrow. It stars in summer holder. which is tough for me to say? I don't know why I always mess up his name. He of course start in the vampire. Diaries he's so when I saw this the trailer so I promoted. I was like Oh my God. I'm like Ian going to do another day. He's going to be like typecast. What is this? It's is going to be stupid. Well it is really really really good. I love it. Okay like Shannon good or favorite. Good Well I don't know what you mean by that. I don't know what you mean by that. I'm not sure it's your you know what I think you should give it a try like you might Y- I feel like you wouldn't love it as much as I do definitely but it has a walking dead vibe. It's okay not it's not a vampire show which is really the unfortunate that it kind of got that stigma when it first was being promoted but it's about a scientist and there is some some sort of bacteria or virus. I haven't really figured it out yet. So I'm not all the way through the series but something that gets released as the polar ice caps caps are melting this kind of thing so that little bit of political agendas thrown in there. Yes yes yes but that too much. It's not sickening or anything and this this whatever. It is a bacterial virus or something gets released and people get infected and the infection spreads you know very similar to the walking dead and people turn turn into these monsters and the only thing that even relates to them is that they drink the blood of their victims Adamska they just attack people drink their blood. So it's not like the sexy Vampire Vampire diaries. Where they're going around like sucking people's knacks and kissing them and making them forget added compelling them to do things? It's nothing like that. They they become these grotesque insane creatures that just attack people and kill them viciously flee and drink their blood so there are definitely a lot of Definitely a lot of violence and Ian Summer holder a Luther Swan that. What is his name? He signed Dr Luther Swan and he claims you know he says I'm the one that can figure this out. I can fix this. He's got a son. Throw that into the mix very very good show so far I feel like I could watch it because even if I didn't like it. My consolation prize is Ian Summer Exactly. Yeah that's and that's not a vampire. He's just a good guy a good looking good guy yes like quake. He's like like superhuman hot in my mind in my mind. Nah So what I mean by fair good versus Shannon good. It is that I tend to be a little bit of an entertainment snob. Like I either like something that has to be award-winning or it's something. That's just really stupid that nobody likes. I like I like you are more like the average entertainment. Yeah I more mainstream than you. That's why I I never know what to think with you. Because you like Madeira Island Vampire. So I'm not quite sure I feel like you. I want you to give this an episode or two. Okay I will. I will do that so let me. Just run through a couple things that I watched quickly and and I think this all plays perfectly into what I just said about my style of entertainment viewing so I watched Richard Jewel. I actually got to see a preview of this movie Just came out over the weekend. This stars Paul Walter Hauser who is just like this pillsbury dough boy of a guy like he. He's been in a couple of things he was in I. Tanya he was in black Klansman That's where I've seen him Tania. Okay I never really paid attention engine to him. Fantastic in this role. This is a bio-pic which by the way my sister and I have learned that we pronounce that were different differently. I say bio PIC. That's what I say to. She calls it a biopic And I was like that sounds like you have a vision. Problem looked it up. Biopic is the US pronunciation Gatien bio-pic is the UK so anyway it's a bio pic about Richard Jewel. An actual guy who was cured guard during the nineteen ninety-six Atlanta Olympic like bombing. who quickly went from hero to suspected terrorists and then back again but it was he was basically trial by media and it ripped ripped his life apart and this is the kind of movie the stories? Good it it's sort of a slow story but it's it's really really good and the acting is phenomenal. Kathy debates is in it Sam Rockwell's in Jon Hamm Olivia Wilde so a highly recommended. I did do a full length review a full length video review short video reviews so it's everywhere so you can see what I think if you're interested in seeing this and then we also watched so we started this show on net flicks that I just absolutely love the show and I think he would like it if you haven't watched it yet. It's called the movies that made us. I do want to see this. and IT'S A it's a series of episodes. It's kind of like a behind the scenes. Look at the making of some pretty beloved movies from the Eighties and nineties and I mean obviously it helps if you've seen the movie but we watched the one for home alone own. We watched the one for ghostbusters. And then we watched die hard. 'cause they're all they all are sort of Christmas movies. Actually really if you think about it they take place yeah. I saw that say assistant so we actually watched die hard. which is available on the Sony Sony crackle channel which we have on Roku? I've never watched this show this channel before but tons of movies. The only downside site is you have to watch commercials. But if it's a movie you WanNa see and you don't really want to rent it then like I can live with that so anyway. We watched I hard. I let my son watch it with us and I was like. Oh yeah that guy just got his sprains blown out and you know you just forget that eighties first of all age action movies. Were like tough guy. Eight violent blood movies and hearing the behind the scenes story of that one was like people were laughing. At the fact that Bruce Willis was cast asked us an action hero. 'cause they're like he's wimpy funny. TV Guy and so when you hear all the so they do talk to a few of the actor. But mainly it's like the directors producers cinematographers. Oh cool and it's just so fascinating to hear their take home alone was the first one we watched and that was really really really fun to watch because you know it was like a movie that almost didn't get made and some of the classic parts of the movie that weren't planned or like the stunt guys like. How are we going to shoot the scenery here? It just if you love movies and you love entertainment like Shannon and I I do. I think it's totally worth watching. Okay okay so we also watched daddy's home two which is streaming on Hulu. Sure New Christmas classic. It's my Christmas classic classic. We watched it just as good as it always is and then also on Hulu. We did a Lotta Hulu watching these days because by the way I'm really mad that the good places is not back yet but we watched runaways. I didn't realize this show was back. Marvel's runaways. I think you gave up on this show I I did. Yeah yeah so it's stupid. It's stupid and yet here. We go with the. Something's I'm watching her like really good like Richard. Jewel will like Golden Globe. Nominations and I'm like runaways. It's stupid but it's fun so anyway and we're watching it like we what happened. I don't remember any. Yeah this and it's just so like come on like the flash how the flash was like like oh the flashes so good and then you're like oh come on all right. Let's watch some more so that's kind of how we are with Marvel's runaways so I will probably keep up with that. Keep you in tune with that and the other one that I keep. Failing to mention that I've watched is so you stupid. That's called the masked singer. Do you know this show. Yeah you talked. You mentioned it. podcasts ago it just started watching it. I think it's so stupid. It's basically like like BC probably more like d list celebrities who are looking to revitalize career so they come on in these elaborate costumes. And we don't know their identities and they perform and then you've got four really stupid judges trying to figure out who they are and honestly it's like it's a forty five minute show and I can probably watch it in two thousand five minutes fast for all unlike like it doesn't even really starting to four minutes in 'cause they're doing like the band term like I don't care care care okay clues singing just talk and then let's do the reveal so anyway anyway. We're watching that because because Evan is like my son He's like let's just turn that on one of those like we don't have to think about it. Let's just watch the stupid Richaud. Yeah Yeah Anyway. Wow that was a lot to talk about and Just real quick. I want to mention the day. This podcast episode. It comes out. I will be on my way to see the rise of skywalker. I have got an advanced screening invitation to you see it and I am pulling my son out of school to go. See it with me because there's only one screening in my area and it's in the middle of the day and I feel like this is a monumental occasion occasion. We're GONNA go see it. I have high hopes absolutely definitely worth pulling out of school. I will be interested. Actually I probably will. I'm not listen to anything you have to say about it until I see it. I think that's a good idea because I don't really want. It's going to be tough but I don't really want to hear I mean I'm going the first day that it opens but I don't want to hear anything don't hear anybody know. Yeah five guys Shannon and I do a lot of movie reviews views. And they're always spoiler free so if you want to check any of that out we encourage you to visit Stinger universe. I DOT COM. That's our website that has blog post Shannon just published a great blog post with Annie Wilkes quotes in it. We have some video. Oh reviews we have some written reviews. And there's there's so many other ways to connect with us yes we would love for you to join us on facebook and our TV and movie discussion soon with Stinger Group. It is a great place to just hop in find out what everybody's watching ask what to watch next. You're gonNA find all kinds of opinions there so we'll just search for US TV and movie discussion with Stinger on facebook and of course we are Stinger. podcast all over social media twitter instagram to Graham our facebook page which is different than our group and you can always call us. We would love to have some comments or questions or anything. Come come through to our voicemail line and we would share your comment on the podcast. The numbers three one five stink. TV and that is three one. Five seven eight four six four eight eight. And if you can't can't remember this or you're driving or you're exercising as said you can find everything at sticker universe dot com even if it even if you you just want to say how great we are. We love that we will play that on the air. We will totally do that. And we forgot to mention. Hey please subscribe to are definitely. They'd played some and leave us a five star review if it's less than five stars just don't waste your time and tell your friends tell your friends tell your friends okay and now you guys. That was a long long intro. 'cause we watched a lot of stuff and we WANNA talk about it. We have to talk about it but the main thing that Shannon and I have been watching is castlerock if you're not aware. CASTLEROCK is an anthology series. Although we use that term loosely. Now on Hulu and it takes place in the Stephen King multi-diverse. We just has finished season two which dives into the back story of Annie Wilkes from Stephen King's iconic book and the movie misery. So we are going to be all full spoilers. If you haven't seen castle rock or you haven't finished maybe come back and listen to the podcast when you're done yet because this is where it gets fun and you know the thing about this is you. Don't have to be a Stephen King Fan. I mean it helps if you know a little bit about the Stephen King Universe verse just because they're a little like Easter eggs and hints and things. But that's really just for the fans you can be a fan of the show without necessarily being a Stephen King Fan definitely definitely. It's a really great. I mean it gets a little bloody little mile and a little spooky but what Shannon's trying to says each season is different so we're on season to season one had ten episodes and it was a complete story set in castle. Rock this season. Listen to which is set in Jerusalem's Lot and castle rock and this is really kind of the back story of Annie Wilkes from the Stephen King King Book and movie misery and Shannon. And I had a chance to meet some of the cast members and talk to showrunner and co-creator Dustin Thomason and and I was reading an interview that he did with Collider and he talked about how Annie Wilkes became the theme of the season and he said when Sam Shaw his co-creator and I started talking about the show. We thought about the Stephen King Universe and the sort of story that we didn't know and long to know more about out an anti was always one of the first things that we talked about. And what's fascinating about. This is that the book misery is really from. I'm Paul Sheldon's point of view almost Sisli. Yes so we see Annie through his eyes and you know is as a villain right and I wish I had gone back and seen the movie or that. I've even read the book because I guess she and I know you did I did. She makes some hints hints about a violent past About issues with her parents and so on. So they're like little clues thrown in about who she is. But we don't know what that's all about so Thomas Actually said in the writer's room they had what they call an Annie Wilkes Bible and and so it was always like it was like everybody had this as their manual of like. What do we know about her? What what can we do to make sure? It doesn't doesn't go against anything that we know about her. And part of the question for them as writers is. How much freedom did they have to expand on her or fill in those margins like they know that Annie's from Bakersfield California we know that she has a murderous past? We know that she had a complicated relationship with her parents. But beyond that. We don't know too much more from the book or from the movies so I would say it helps to have seen the movie definitely. But you don't have have to and I think that you would enjoy you're just going to enjoy those little moments in the show that much more if you've seen the movie I think you're right. I think I think it is definitely good to have seen it at least once in your life But the question really came up because it's an anthology. Do you have have to see season one. Yeah and before we saw season two. We all thought no you. Don't they're going to be different stories every time. That's what what we were told. Well come to find out season two draws a decent amount of season one in and so. That's where I got a little bit like I was a little bit annoyed. I mean I loved it afterwards but my daughter water. My son had not seen season one and when we get to that one episode I know allies that it's the kid you're like. Oh my God. I literally paused it. And I'm like okay. Okay I just need to explain everything to them about. One guy had to just give them like you know the well. It wasn't really brief but my yeah so I feel like I wanna go back and watch season again which I probably will because it. My son hasn't seen it and even though season wants Kinda creepy. I really want him to watch. I think he would totally dig it. Yeah and I still feel like you can watch season two without having seen season one but but like Shannon and I like to fit pieces of the puzzle together so I think for us. It was really gratifying to be like. Oh my God it was so oh good yes those moments you'll totally understand season to like. There's nothing that you'll be like scratching your head about if you didn't see sees him one but like I said there's just those has moments that you're like oh how that's just makes it really much cooler so I think I would probably definitely go back and watch one into before the third everyone comes out because now I see that they're going to continue to weave little things and I think Dustin Thomason said that when we interviewed him that they're Gabby weaving bits and pieces uses all the way through every season. Yes yes so. We're GONNA dive into each episode briefly briefly But I I WANNA hear your overall thoughts Shannon This is my top contender for series of the year. This in January failure and I always do our our best of and I've got to go back and look at everything and everything I not. I seriously think this could be my top watch of two thousand. Nineteen well of it in every way in fact Shannon's notes say it's a frigging masterpiece. Yeah so so I have to say that I loved loved loved this all the way up until episode nine and then it fell. It fell a little flat for me I I I felt like the first eight episodes were amazing and then nine was okay and then the last episode I felt like was all right. Let's let's wrap this up with a bow and at and I was liked. What happened like what what happened? What happens is to castle rock next and I say that's true? Stephen King fashion. Even though Stephen King was not a writer on this you know he does. Consult for the show. Show but my experience Stephen King and don't get me wrong. I love him as a writer. I love his books but he never really knows how to end anything. So my experience with Stephen King is it's basically and then something supernatural happens and everything blows up kind of ending and I feel like that's it's a little bit of what happened here. I don't know I mean I don't agree. I don't agree at all. I thought that last episode was incredible. I thought they did a fantastic job of bringing you up to the point of misery and I mean for sure I you know. It was way more satisfying the end of season. One the end of season one I I was just like angry. Well season season to end. Did give us an end. It ended it still left us. Open questions Sion's sure and that's good though because I am but it's hopeful that they were gonNA show these reincarnated you know I I heard in the The we've talked about the castle rock zone podcast before we were guests on it and I'm always in their facebook group talking with the the other like hard core Stephen King fans in there and they they were calling the people who were reincarnated from the four Hundred Years Weavers because they were weaving themselves. Listen to bodies. I don't know if that was like an official term that they used in the show. But that's what I've been using for that and I was just GonNa say that I think some of those weavers are gonNA show up again in another season. Ace's dead while I guess we'll get into this at the end. I'm getting excited. We're excited okay. Let's let's start again. We're just going to go briefly ten episodes episodes. We'll we'll just talk real quick to help refresh your memory because for for those of you. That don't know the way that this show premiered was on on. Its release date October. Twenty third. They dropped the first three episodes and then they parse them out one episode at a time over the next seven weeks and I actually love that they give you three episodes right off the bat to get you like sucked into the story and then it just helps you pace yourself and you have this participation in this excitement and for me every week I was like oh it's Wednesday right castle resumes for this show. It worked yes. Here's here's here's on missile about that. It worked for castlerock because every episode was an incredible story. They packed so much in there was just just incredible amounts of detail other shows. You know I'm GonNa just mentioned quick. The Disney plus shows there dripping those out and they're like half hour to forty minute like the mandatory and I was so in on that but it's been almost painful to just watch that every week because not that much happens in thirty minutes dire. I've read that. Yeah so I'm just like all right. This is frustrating almost but for castle rock it absolutely works. It was great. Okay all right. So let's let's start with episode one. Yes so episode. One is called. Let the river run. And that is that show that song song is sort of throughout the show Carly Simon so anti enjoy actually ended up in castle rock after a car accident. She gets temp job at the hospital. Little joy kind of stir crazy. They're living in this sort of ramshackle little cabin heaven. Yeah she tries to make friends. Ace throws a Molotov Tov cocktail through Nadia and Abdi's window and Anne we find out needs the this certain cocktail of medications. But she can't let anyone know that she's on these medications so she's trying to get into the hospital room to get the Med since she steals Nadia's key and so she and Nadia kind of formed respond to because nobody wants to try and help her and so a swatches. Annie's Internet activity figures out. She's not who she says he is. He and he threatens her. because joy saw ace making molotov cocktail and then boom Anti kills him in in a shocking way so we met Paul sparks who plays ace Merrill which by the way he is. He's much better looking in real life than he's on the show I. I didn't when we met him. I had no idea what his character was going to be. Like and I thought he was one of the best characters of this show and so that scene first of all of my God it was like so graphic and so grow and so all like oh I got but I'm watching it going. I thought he was the star of this show. I know I know me too. I was like wait. He can't be dead already right like is he dead. He's he's not really dead and then I'm like oh he's really dead so anyway that sucked me in right away I was like Holy Shit. Yeah Yeah so much happens. They said that in the Air COMECON in the interview. That every episode like a series. A season finale. Yes it really was so an episode. A two is entitled New Jerusalem which is again another lyric from the same song yes but also ties into the fact that they are in Jerusalem's lot right which is also called Salem slot. Yeah so anti trying to bury Ace's body at the construction site where odd these building a new Somali mall and she falls through the ground into a cave as she's digging She finds her way out of the cave somehow now and ends up in this bizarre Marston House. Where there's like you know it's just trashed and there's junkies hanging out doing drugs having sex and by the way the Marston? The house wasn't that featured in Salem Slot. Yes Okay Lee House okay. Yup Yup so she left as down in the caves and my question Nair was did just leaving him down there. Kickoff this whole reincarnation because they do mention later a says something to somebody about how Anne was the one who set us free or something like that so I don't know all the other bodies they had to put into caskets. I'm not quite sure about that little detail but I guess it's not that maybe it was like just leasing the moths or something like yeah. I don't even something like that. It was interesting though joy. She cuts her hand and she ends up at the hospital. Talks to Dr Nadia a little bit. They kind of form a friendship because not as a little bit suspicious of Anne because of the drugs and all all that joy also has the phone with her to her friends that she made at the cabins whose name is chance gave her an old phone that she could use when she's on Wi fi and she starts googling when she's like by herself in the doctor's office she starts googling her name and Anne's name and she finds nothing about them on the Internet. So we see joy kind of starting to question her mother a little bit more. And what's going on. And you know who she is so meanwhile everyone's looking for Ace pop confronts Anne because the dog went right to Annie's door ace's dog what right to any store. So pop goes to her and confronts her and she incriminates Aldi because she knew she was in the house when he threw the mob multi cocktail into obvious house. She knew there was bad blood between between them so she points the finger at Apti pop has abbvie grabbed by the bad guys and ties him up to question him but he ends up. I don't know I haven't like a heart attack or you. He he collapses somehow just collapses yeah. He got a week in state because he's got he's got cancer right cancer and all that so that is the end of aw episode two then we go to episode three which is called ties that bind and Anne Siese Ace and She she's so she goes back to the Marston House to try and confirm that he's actually dead. Joy goes to CASS Lake. It's called Catholic is that what is yeah which we find placed prominently in this season. We learn a lot about that lake With her friends to look for a dead body. They're looking for the the The warden right now. They're looking for ace but they tell the story warden okay they say you know this this relates back to season one. They say they found his body but never found the head. So if you remember the way he killed himself he could like a noose around his head and then drove off into the lake. Yes yes yeah so that was a cool little recall back so she ends up eating some pot brownies and I guess that has no experience right so she's just like acting all weird and and you know this is really a coming of age story for joy that's A. That's a huge yard of of this whole series while the whole thing with them looking for a dead body of the lake also calls back to stand by me yes yes very similar definitely so Joy ends up going back and anti tells joy about killing ace and him coming back to life and of course of course joy is like Okay mom and gives her an an emergency drug that knocks out. She ties her up in bed to make her take her pills. But we find out that any is not taking her pills because she thinks the prescriptions messed up. Some home Yes so Joy eventually finds out Anne Anne. It was a weird scene so anti breaks a glass and she's holding on to this. Oh will last to try and cut herself free and you know Annie is covered with blood for many episodes. Yes Asan yeah I mean. She dislocated her own shoulder. Her arms tied to the bed. Yes she dislocated her own shoulder so she could cut one of the ropes free with a piece the glass in her mouth. I mean it was insane. Yeah crazy all right well episode for then is called restore hope and here we get a little back story for Nadia an OP DE and. I'm not even sure we mentioned this but of course you have all seen it. They are Somali and they were adopted by pop merrill right so we find out that their mother was killed by American soldiers right in front of them and that will be a significant tale. A little bit later in the episode so joy then is going to Nadia for help after Anne cuts herself The ropes joy is like okay. My mom is nuts. I don't know what to do. I need help. Nadia brings to a shelter Helps her out for she brings to her house right then. Joy contacts chance her friend and has her break into the cabin and get some Joyce stuff which includes this mysterious locked box that joy has been wondering about so joy than and has the box with her and she cracks the code that the combination and she finds a CD with a story on it called the ravening angel and she starts to read it meanwhile Nadia finds out that pops cancer treatment isn't working and she's trying to get him into this experimental experimental program and she needs his military info so she starts digging around his private papers she kinda like breaks into the emporium sort of Look through his personal stuff often she discovers that he is actually the one that killed her mother and I know that was that was kind of gut wrenching actually so meanwhile pop is like throwing himself this party this funeral because he is pretty much given up and knows he's GonNa die. I pretty soon. And Nadia comes and confronts him and you know hates him now and also in this episode. We see ace and I I was still wondering even like to episode four. Because I wasn't sure if I if ace was a figment of her imagination if any was seeing him but then he's talking to people so like all right he's gotTa be alive somehow. I can't imagine so by four. I'm starting to see that. There's some sort of supernatural for natural. I finally got it like some sort of supernatural thing. Happening with as he is killing people around the town to kind of bring into his group and is this the episode where he kills his brother. Yes it is Chris. Yeah okay so I was like wait. He can't die and I didn't quite get at that point that they weren't just killing them. They were resurrecting right people in their bodies. Yeah yeah so that was a pretty shot. I got that was a really good episode in pretty shocking knocking on several accounts and I was like. Why didn't I see that coming? I thought it was good so episode. Five I'm really excited. I get to talk about this episode because good one in season one. What was the one we love? Was it called McQueen McQueen right so to me the laughing place this. This was the Queen episode for me of Big Reason. I thought it was just so brilliant. We're really getting the back story of Anne and I were watching like okay. How is this going to be relevant to what we know about any today and this is really about how joy comes into her life and Anne has made several references to like like? Well you know how men are and so you always get the impression that maybe Joyce father was just a bad guy and anti got pregnant and well. Oh that is not the story at all no so we get the back story of Andy's the child. She has dyslexia and her parents decide to home school. Her and her mom and dad are like really total opposite so you know her her mom you can see her mother's where she gets a lot of the Kakudi like that's dirty ear dirty insanity yes and the and her dad is trying to write a book and so he is teaching her but really using an any to help her to help him. You know type it read it whatever and also helping her learn to read better. They decide to hire a tutor. Rita who anti he loves by the way cost. She's beautiful isn't she. Yeah Oh yeah. So Annie's Mama's nuts and and decides to try and kill both herself and any at the same time she's like. I know what I need to do. And she drives her car into a river right. Oh the whole let the river run. Is that kind of goes throughout the whole series so then they don't really explain a lot about the mother because I mean again. You can't backstory backstory backstory back. But I was always a little curious still left a little curious about the mom like where she just got. So amazingly insane you know. She's always talking about making everything clean. Lean and she is a dental hygienist. And there's one point where she's CL- she's cleaning Annie's teeth and she's like you know the human mouth is the most disgusting getting on Earth and you know she's she's that was the phrase she used when she tried to kill them both that she says you know I know how to make it clean so this clean kind of resurfaces this again throughout Anne's life. Yeah that theme well. It's bizarre while Anne is being tutored. We discover Rita is is pregnant and I knew I did not I knew I knew but I was like but the data's kind of ugly and read is beautiful so I have a a hard time with that else like. They gave a hint at their possible relationship. But anyway I just had a feeling so we find out out that Rita shows up with her baby and the baby is actually her dad. So it's actually Annie's half sister and then Anne finds out that her father has dedicated this book to his laughing place who is Rita and she is just like what Rita not not me and she accidentally pushes her dad down the stairs and he dies in a very Gross Way Yeah Yeah he ends impaled impaled and he even says anti. It's not your fault it's okay but I guess that's not enough for Anne. The and she sort of freaks out grabs a pair of scissors. Stabs read in the better Takes the baby and runs decides. She's going down to the river to do exactly okay. What her Mother did? And that is just. That's how to make it all clean how to make it all better yeah. She's intending to kill herself to. Yes yes US and so she walks into the river and she sees that the baby starts laughing and smiling and realizes this is that. Oh maybe there's another way out of this. So she takes the baby and runs and we realized now that that is how she became Joyce's mother so the episode ends with joy reading the ravening angel gets to the dedication at the end of the Book and Looks Up Rita Green and this part was a little like. That's a really common name really just found her a little too easily but overall I thought that episode was just a masterpiece and I feel like like the acting was so good in in this show that I feel like the actress who plays young. Anne maybe got overshadowed I I thought she was so good. lazing the casting. Her and then Lizzy Caplan in comparison to Kathy Bates like. Wow yeah that that was just really really impressive. Yes I agree. Yeah all right then. We're an episode six called the mother and read it comes down to I find joy so we find out that Rita we see this brief scene where she's got one of those like I don't know what you call them when a detective as like push pins and yarn and everything you know like trying to travel right down. Yeah she's got that on her wall so you discover that she's been trying to track Anne for sixteen years ears and you know that that one little point really bother me I mean right well okay. We don't know how long Rita was lying on the floor or how long it was before she got help and they reported that Anne had taken the baby baby but she's a sixteen year old girl with no job no money nothing and I just have a hard time believing that for sixteen years ears. She couldn't be found but again I guess that plays into Annie's cleverness and manipulation of people. Well changing her name in. Yeah I know and her location and young girl with a newborn baby. How hard would that be to track down? I don't know Shannon. I've never tried it anyway. All right moving on so she finds I'd be really gets the phone call and she is like. Oh my God you know. This is something. Obviously this person's mentioning the ravening Angel and joy he kind of hung up on her but she tracked the number she tracked the number and found that the phone belonged to chance who gave joy the phone and went went and spoke to chance you know just hopped on a bus or whatever got in her car. went to Maine and joy learns the truth about everything and look. Let me stop you right there because although everything that Anne did is just horrendous Indus horrific when you hear the real story that's her mother and that's all she's known for Thirteen Years Yep and so I could really feel the conflict. The joy must feel right. Oh absolutely this is her mother and that's who she was meant to be with but at the same time how could she abandon Anne any because that that's her mother and her mother needs her. Yup She truly doesn't know what to do and she tells Annie they get together talk and she tells her that she needs to leave and go where no one can find her because she knows that the story is GonNa come out from Rita and he's going to go to jail gail or worse so she still kind of wants to protect and like you said she loves her so any almost seems to accept that joy needs go on our own way and she writes a letter saying she'll always be her number one fan Call back to misery and joy goes back to the cabin heaven looking for her mom and ends up it. No one's there and then she hears screaming and she hears gunshots and we find out that let Rita had gone to Anne's cabin now. I think joy at this point had already told me to listen. I don't really want to be your kid. I'm just GONNA go. Oh do my own thing. Now I'M GONNA be on my own right. So Rita was very distraught also and she kinda wanted to make any pay and she has a gun and she gotta got to kill any but any runs and they chase each other down and like I said Joyce shows up and she hears them runs after them and Oh okay so rita is like just I mean. She's she's cocked begun. She's just about to kill Anne and joy comes up behind her and injects her with that emergency drug whatever that is to make her pass out as she passes is out she drops the gun which already cocked and it goes off and shoots her rita. I really want to know how how easily guns go off accidentally really I mean I guess if you're talking at all all you have to you don't have to pull the trigger. Just that call Casta you have to have some pressure on it. I guess so they. They never they never definitively say that. Rita's dead but we assume that she is right. Yeah Okay Yeah we do assume that she is. I don't I don't know if they say that when they have Anne the cops are questioning any enjoy. I'm not sure if they actually say she's dead or if they show anything like that but Yeah we're just assuming coming that. She's dead so anti confesses to killing Rita to protect joy. And that was that was the end of this episode. Then we move onto episode seven. I didn't realize I gave myself all the good episodes here Shannon. I didn't do that on purpose. We're that's up for debate. The word episode seven. This is the one that made my jaw drop. Yup Okay so this is where we again this. This is a departure from the current story. This is the history of Castlerock in Salem slaughtered Jerusalem slot and we find out back in sixteen nineteen a group the French settlers. We're having trouble growing anything on the land. By the way I did spend some time in Maine and it is accurate. That a lot of Maine was actually settled by the French. Okay so so they were having trouble growing on the land. Growing anything on the land and Amity who is was she. The daughter of the the pastor sounds right yet. I think that's what it was so our Shannon USA that amity made a deal with the devil was it the devil. ooh That's that's my take all right so amity goes out she's she's sort of like Not like an oracle but almost like a prophet almost like a visionary. Mary and you know she sees A. Let's say an angel we don't know if it's what they call him. They call him an angel right but we don't know if he's an angel of light eight or an angel of darkness so she makes a deal with an angel and and miraculously you know they're able to grow things and everything like the community Starts to thrive and I think they actually burn those that that were the naysayers right right. Right they burn them crosses right yes but then she gets word from the angel that they all have to be killed and she's like wait. Are you sure this is what has to happen. And they all agree that they have to be killed so that they can come back to life in four hundred years. Why we don't know no we? I don't know that. So basically what happens is they put this like this moth in there or they have to swallow this moth four right and then so they lay down in these coffins. They swallow them off and then their throats are slit And then the that August August who becomes okay so in the future is the last one to die right yes and he has to be so how does he die. We don't know. Does he slit his own throat. Yeah he probably had to kill him so okay so so what we find out. Is that four hundred years later. The settlers will be reincarnated into new vessels or new bodies and that that August will be the first first one to be resurrected and so in amity is supposed to be. The last amity will be the rest so he is the reincarnation of of ace so What we find is that actually goes to Shawshank prison? And we find this out because pop. Merrill goes to visit the ACE and Chris's father who is in. Yeah right so we'll find out that's how he became the guardian of the kids. But we find that ace has been to Shawshank and has been trying to find the cell of the kid so this is all from season. One now. You mentioned at the end end of season one. That Henry Deaver was watching over the kid in the whole in Shawshank. I don't remember refresh my memory. Yeah well that was the last episode. He he puts the kid back into the hole where Ward Lacey had him and then you see him kind of periodically. I think they show that maybe they don't show but somehow they insinuate that he comes to visit. I think it was Christmas or something. But so he comes to visit him and check check that he's there and talk to him like every so often. Yes so if you haven't reached the only one I think that knows he's down there. Yeah so if you haven't seen season one probably this whole episode or parts of this episode made you sort of scratch your head So what ends up happening is they are doing a big four hundredth with anniversary parade. Like the celebration of the four hundred anniversary of the founding of Castle Rock and they bring out the statue. It's The statue of an angel and they reveal the statue and there's like this bright light that comes from it and we were all we also see that the the real life incarnation of the statue is who amity met for one hundred years ago and he puts the hood of his cloak down. And it is. It's the Kid Don Don Don and we're like and did you. Did you know like when I first saw the statue that they they were pray that the settlers four hundred years ago. We're talking to that amity was praying to talking to. I thought that it looked like him. No I didn't have any inkling whatsoever also to me. This was a huge like I was watching. It knows although myself because nobody watched the show with me this season I would like so anyway there so everyone seems to fall under a spell and we find out it's actually. I thought it was like looking at the statue but it wasn't. It was the sound the yeah and some people don't hear it. which again doesn't that call back to season one? Like some people heard it and some people didn't like the Henry's Henry's Dad was trying to get him to hear the sound member that right and he had to pretend like he heard it. But right here it yeah So I'm just not so sure why there or so very few people that didn't hear the sound or you're right pal. We don't know that and we we did not we do not find this out and this is probably Lee something a theme. That's going to carry on. Yeah I think so future size deal like what I would enjoy is if they kind of just kept weaving this in the story about Augustine and amity and the kid and when castle rock ultimately comes to an end that is when we discover all all the mysteries of the kid. Yes that would be cool. He's he's GonNa play in future. We know that now but I absolutely love this episode food and sometimes I don't like it when they deviate too much from the main story stranger things too but I absolutely loved this backstory it. It was like creepy and interesting at the same time. Oh my God yeah. It was fantastic on episode eight. This was called dirty and we see the statue. You and it's being moved you know. It's being pulled on this big truck or whatever through from castle rock to Salem Slot Crat Chronic rumps CA. I just like to give you a little. It's not Rod castlerock hassle and as it moves through the street beat. Everyone's following it. Everyone's falling in line falling under the spell hearing the sound so any enjoy. Then we go back to their story after killing Ling Rida or after Rita dies accidentally I guess right Any enjoy a have they were with the police but then some of the policemen who are the reincarnated people from the Marston House under acis direction those policemen go. I mean these people are still able to interact with the community the and act like they are who they are right so those policemen go and they get Anne enjoy and bring them to the Marcin House. 'cause Remember Ace believes the Anne is is the one for amity. Yeah and I think that's an important point because not everybody that followed the angel like some people were vessels and some people were. We're simply followers right right and actually a lot of the people that were I mean I think most of the people that were vessels were just milling around in the house and stuff. It's like they. They weren't compelled compelled at all. It was really just the town. Yes came the followers. Yeah Yeah so at some point when they're both their ace sees his joys drawings and he thinks suddenly that she is the proper vessel for amity because we do see a scene where amity was drying again he said he goes to amities coffin and he says her hand moves as if moved by you or something like that so I was a little bit of question on that about what you thought about that because it seems like joy was the picture that they showed. She was drawing a picture of a woman who kind kinda look like. She was hanging off a cliff and there was another person. I also look like a woman to me like reaching her and the first time I kind of glanced and looked at that I thought thought it was kind of joys. You know chance or somebody because we know joy is kind of having these feelings chance a little bit and I thought the picture meant and that chance was saving joy. You know saving her but then like didn't look like the kid at all. It didn't look like amity. It didn't look like anybody so was a s- just saying that her style of drawing was like Ami's or was just because she drew anything or had some artistic talent or was it something well I'd -nificant he saw. Aw I think that cliff. That area was a significant area. Because that's where Hammadi met the. Maybe it was the cliff. Yeah that's what I'm thinking. Okay Castle Lake. But you're right it did look like a woman But maybe maybe he thought it was like the Angel Saving Amity at the cliff or something like that. Yeah yeah all right so yeah I was kind of a little bit wondering about the drawings and it was interesting so then we see Chris Ace's brother we didn't didn't see a lot of he he really wasn't a big part of the series honestly wasn't he wasn't huge now I he goes to see Nadia and tried to kill her because he says a said it was her time her time to come into the fray of the reincarnated people. So she's a bad ass. She strangles him until he passes out and then she injects him with what we find out as hell doll. I don't know anything. Think about this drug but I the way I thought she killed him when she strangled him. I killed him. Yeah well I don't know yeah. I wasn't sure either but I guess just enough to get them to pass out and get offer so what we find out she brings him to the hospital and again. I have such an issue with like people being able to just pick up pick people Heavy he's right like two hundred pounds gotTa pick him up and put him in her trunk and then get them out of Gurney and we own through the hospital come on anyway. She gets him to the hospital and Yo you know she has him secured. He's what's the word. Oh my God you know strapped down strap down. Yeah can't can't think worse strain very go restrain. Yes so suddenly Chris kind of wakes up and he's he's himself and and he is able to explain to Nadia that the drug she inject. He's like Gimme more of that. Give me more of that. Because that's helping him to kind of suppress the other another person inside of him and they did a good job of that when there were like two random people from the town that were killed and taken to be used as vessels and remember the woman it was in an earlier episode. She didn't complete her conversion. Yes because she was on drugs. Enter says depressants cents or whatever else yes okay. Yeah so I thought okay that really ties it together makes sense yes right so not as finding some things out here about what the the hell was going on from Chris she still lives in one hundred percent clear so then ante enjoy end up escaping from the Marston House after anti kills a bunch of people. Yeah this this is. My favorite part was my favorite part and I just I. She was just picking up every possible weapon. We saw the sledgehammer action. Go in and I was like. Oh no you know you are girl and she did she did. It was great. Yeah yes so then we get to episode nine a and this is where I just didn't love this episode. So maybe I'm maybe I missed something so I wanna I wanna hear what you thought so episode nine caveat emptor so this is pop Nadia Ati and chance or hiding out in the emporium Gloria and so Anne and two others to Randolph's who we new we're not gonNA survive 'cause they were basically the redshirt so the episode. I said that exactly. Yeah my husband we always say that redshirt. Yeah and and so. They're all of them like are they. Are they spies. Or they vessels what's going on And so they they start to question them individually and they discover that one of the guys definitely is I think he's like Like a tech at the hospital or something. Yeah yeah he was. He worked at the hospital and pop was very astute. It and saying. Wait a minute you had an airing. Yeah now there's nothing in your ear so you know it goes to show that their bodies are healed of whatever it is is that they are lacking so so one of them. Is they end up restraining him and injecting him withheld all because they're trying to figure route. What's really going on? And then Anne. This is what do we really realise anti girl. You are a nut because we realize any like anti doesn't give any forethought to killing what she's just like. Oh I gotTA kill you. And then she tells them like this what she's just like. Oh you're making me mad syringe in the eye I that made me physically cringe when she did that. Oh God it was so good I was like. Oh Yeah. Yeah so h shows up if tries to bargain with pop and maybe got a little confused here so he wanted the letters that pop had that were from warden lacey to Sheriff Ref pangbourne Allen Pangbourne. who was in from season one and we? We still don't exactly know what was in those letters do we. Well he does show a few of them and there were there. Were drawings of the kid there were I what I believe to be an explanation of everything. Everything Warden Lacey knows about the kit right so I feel like I want to go back and watch season one now knowing that Allen knew all of that because I don't remember if he knew that if we got that impression in season one I don't I don't remember either okay. I don't remember anyway so ace. Once that information an and pop says oh I've burn. Burn the letters and he's like well then. I guess we're just going to have to take you because you've read the letters so because Ace's trying to locate locate the kid. That's his way. Oh you're right that's what it is. Okay he's trying to find him because he goes to the cell and the cells empty and then he doesn't know what to do right. So so Nadia makes a plan to get away because she talks to me about this game that they used to play when they were younger. I guess like which is children. If you're listening not a good game to play we know like lifting. Let's let's beat the train tracks so they WANNA basically run in front of the train just as it goes by which will cut the town in two. Because it'll take a half hour for the train to go. Oh by so pop. Says I think he tells them that he will meet them but what he does. Is He straps explosives to himself. So because pop knows he's going to die anyway. He's got cancer. He's nearing the end. So he basically says he's GonNa blow up ace and everybody with him and so as comes in he clicks the button and nothing happens and you say that he does that on purpose. Yes yes I don't think that was on purpose. I think that was like Oh didn't work. Well I think that's what I was wondering about at at the end of episode nine out what we all talked about me and my husband and my daughter like did he do that on purpose. Was it his plan or did it just really fail you know. I had a hard time believing leaving. That pop was unable to make a simple bomb so I kind of had suspected maybe he did it on purpose and there. It wasn't any panic he was laughing. You know I am an episode ten I think we do find out definitively a no he did it on. I don't think think he did it on purpose but I but I think he knew after. That didn't work that they were going to take him and try and convert him and I think that's when he injected himself with HAL which we don't find out to the next episode so ace shoots him so I thought overall this was a a really boring episode. It was like okay. Hey what are we going to do. It just seemed like your standard like fight punch. I just there wasn't anything that made me go in this episode. So maybe the how's the problem. All the other episodes were so good and I was like okay. You expect too much yes I do. Yeah I mean I guess if I compared this to all the other episodes it there was no gasping momen right but I still thought it was great. I mean I still loved the I thought it fit in with the story. I liked the progression of everything I was. You know happy with the plans they made. And I didn't think anything was ridiculous. You know so so I enjoyed it sponsors any other episode. I think okay and then Dong Yeah let me get to the final episode of the season episode ten and this one unmoved really fast. It moved very fast and I like that. I like things to move fast and also very well done. I think episode ten was called clean again. There's that word again. Not An op de find their way to the entrance to the tunnels and he tells them where it is so they dig it up with big machine bigger and all that and they find the tunnels they climbed down into their with the ladder and they're setting explosives explosives everywhere. They make their way through under the house setting explosives the whole way. Meanwhile Anne enchants go to the Marston House to try tried to rescue joy ultimately they fail okay. Chance thinks she's just kind of slowly creep her way through the crowd and get to Anne. Yeah I mean get to joy. I don't really know what their plan was after that or would they were going to do but someone what her friend Vera from the beginning kind of recognizes her. And I in like you know. What isn't that what she so? I thought you were telling me no. Yeah I know right and she points in her and then all of them you know it's kind of like the in Star Trek the The board you know. They'll have a hive mind. Yeah they all kind of turn and just pointed chance and they're saying no right and she tries to get out of it. She starts pointing at Vera. That was smart. That was yes that was quick thinking and she's reaching for her gun but of course there's some of the other guys come and grab her. Yeah it bring her into the house so that fails and any is panicking. Because she thinks that we're going to just set off a Ogden Toltar- you've got this window of time to get joy and otherwise we're gonNA blow the whole thing so Annie's panicking. She's trying to talk to them on the walkie like don't do do it joys in there then chance now and this is where. I wasn't sure if this was planned or not. Maybe this was their plan. B or something. I don't know but chance tells them that. They're under. The House will planting the bombs right. No she doesn an antidote. WHO DOES ANTI COMES IN? Okay I thought you know as I was saying and I'm like wait. Is that right. Okay no anti comes in and chances like what are you doing right because all All anti cares about she's desperate. Right is joy that's right. She was out Nadia. Aldi shows about anything. She just wants Joyce she's just go. Go get them take so you think. She's trying to distract them into dealing with the bombs so she can get joy not even not even distracting. She's just like yeah I guess so but she just wants to stop the bomb. Anti just only just has a one track mind anyone's anyone's okay. Yeah okay that's that makes much more sense okay. So then they find out yet because any tells them that they're down there and the tunnels and they go down and pop pop merrill who's now reincarnated which by the away. As soon as he said. I'll go with them. I'm like okay pop still in. Oh see I didn't think I didn't think that at all. I was totally surprised by that. So yeah so he's going to go with them they all oh good on the tunnels and they're just about to shoot to kill Ogden. Nadia and find out you know disable all the bombs and pop shoot to the guys that are with them and you know we find out that he injected himself with the hall just before he died somehow or maybe it was in that pipe that he smoked or some kind of the little sleight of hand. Pop the good old that good old guy. So he's in there and he tells tells Nadia he's like you know I got this French guy like babbling in the back of my head. We gotta move fast so he kind of saves the day gets the Mao will they go up into the house and then pop kind of pretends that he's with them again and handcuffs himself and he has does he have the why am I. Why am I forgetting episode ten? Now how did he can't cups himself and he has they have explosives. No are the anything. No users had a walkie talkie telling somebody now okay. Handcuffed himself there to make it look like he's been taken prisoner taken prisoner by them. Yeah right okay and and were were forgetting to talk about joy outside for Ford the way we always all she looked at shoot much better. Oh my gosh. She looked gorgeous. And that's how it was with all of them actually pop looked really good Yes so you know. Obviously they have some kind of a transformation. This is where I have an issue like. Why wouldn't they just killjoy? And and have harassed like why this big ceremony and big everything right. I don't know maybe there were some instructions so we get this impression that she she has this knife because at this point when joy is dressed up like a bride. I wasn't clear at when I was watching it. If she had been transformed yet or not. Yeah and that's something that we actually discussed in our house like. Maybe she was because she looked very beautiful. Maybe she looked different. Maybe the ceremony was something different. Maybe when they first took her they put her in the casket and she became McCain Abadi and the outside seen now what I took as you saw that casket outside it was there in front of the statue. Am Joy Roy as we're standing there like some kind of marriage ceremony was going to happen and there was a big knife right there. So maybe maybe I was thinking that was the ceremony where ace was GONNA kill Killjoy. Put her in the coffin and she would be reincarnated and Voila Amadou's back but it's entirely possible that they already did that. Add to amity and the ceremony could have been something out so we don't know I think I think it makes more sense what you said. The first thing because remember joy was under the influence of the schism. Ah So she was. She wasn't acting like herself so she was very complacent or whatever the word is just whatever. They wanted her how to do she would do so she was not quite in her right. Mind right and there's just a few things that I hear people I agree with you. I don't think that she had become amity at that point but people are talking. This is the big point of contention in the show. Big Mystery and people were saying that after after the bombs started going off the first the statue gets destroyed and Anne is yelling joy. Dan You know you see joy turnaround in the wedding dress. And she's Kinda days and the spell has been broken because the statue was destroyed. And you see Joyce face there and that moment when she's looking at Anne and I just thought she had a very bizarre look on her face and man Kudos was to the acting because wow people have said online that she looked reproachful almost like she was upset. Like what the Hell did you do. So that was another point that some people have said that she was already amity. 'cause she did have this really weird look I just thought right. She was just kind of out of it. She was under the influence of the schism a- but that was what that was after everybody started breaking and screaming because everything had been in the just the statute destroyed the schism. Oh spell was broken. Everyone was running and screaming and running away and joys kinda turning around like she's dazed and confused views and shows no what's happening and Ju- Annie's yelling joy joy and she turns around looks at her mother. Like I don't know this very weird. Look on her face. I really couldn't place with that. Look Man I would love to hear everybody's thoughts on that. Well I think life would have been better for her as amity automatically so then what else happens in episode ten. We kind of jump ahead a little bit all right so intrude Stephen King King fashion. Everything blows up. Yep Right yeah they likes troy the Marston House everything blows up. And that's the last we see of castlerock right. Yeah well I mean it was just the Marston House. It wasn't like the whole city was blown right bill. Just how at but we city under this Nobel what happened right. The vessels right happened we. We don't know yes exactly. So that's why I believe that the people under the spell you know ace. I'm pretty sure got away. He ran we saw all the people that were standing the statue running away and I believe a lot of the maybe some people die but I think a lot of them got away and a Scott away a lot of the reincarnated people got away. And I think we're going to see them again. I would love to see ace in another episode. That would be great great. So that's what I think happened there. I think a lot of them got away. And that's I I feel like that's a perfect ending like I don't feel like I need to know what else happened in Castle Rock. It's just again another one of those crazy ass. Things that happens in castlerock. You know that goes down in their history yeah. I don't think I'd visited Iraq on on a known to either. Well then we jump ahead a week. It says one week later and enjoy are in the car. Driving Joy looks very very distraught. Gentlemen sitting in the backseat. Yep definitely some. PTSD going going on there. She's very upset. Doesn't Really WanNa talk to Anne. Doesn't you know Kinda grunts at her. When Anna asks questions you see them stop? I just WanNa you mentioned this one little. We're GONNA talk about some Stephen King Easter eggs. But I want to mention the one because we did say earlier. The question about Henry deavere he was supposed to be watching over the kid and and the kid disappeared from the cell so I immediately thought in that episode. What happened to Henry and we see as anti stops to Gas In this last episode there is a flyer a missing person Flyer on the side of the gas pump with Henry. Devers picture on it yet. But remember season one ended with like to alternate universes sure with Henry deavere. The Kid and one with Henry Redeemer the adult but the picture on the missing person he was clearly an adult and it said two thousand nineteen so he had just disappeared right but I think I think he disappeared by being switched into the other universe. Oh that could be. Okay okay. I don't know I need to go back and watch season one again. Yeah but I do too but I don't pack there. I did see that missing persons sign I was like oh I caught one yes so then Anne finds. It's a job. They go to Canada and any finds a job as an in home care provider for a man who's basically comatose and it's a nice little like Lakefront Front House that they're in and it seems like they would be very happy. Of course. Joy is still very unhappy and Anne comes comes across a book. This is actually on their way to Canada. They stop at a motel and she goes. Do you want me to start reading it to you. And and I'm like please God. No and she shoos horrible reader. But it's Paul Sheldon's first book. Yes the adventures misery suggesting. Yeah so that was awesome. I was very excited. I kinda squealed a little bit when that happened. Very exciting to me putting that connection together and and so they get the book in a hotel and then they go up to Canada and she gets this job and they're there and let me just say this is an important point that I kind kind of missed out on. They were richly heading to Montreal and they stopped somewhere along the way and and the important point is the the setting thing because that is a French speaking part of Canada right and Shannon brought this up to me We'll get to that in a second. Yeah Yeah Yeah. I think that's an important point because they are in the house and and he's doing your job enjoy miserable and anti starts to just suspect something since we aren't signs. Yes suspect that something is off with joy. She sees her watching a French film. And and I didn't know that that was significant. My thought you know like probably everyone else that was watching was like okay. She's watching this French film. She seems to be pretty affected. Did like maybe she's understanding what's happening What's going on is amity inside joy right now? What's going on? So they start to give view that little doubt there in the beginning and also Anne is having doubts so she also notices at one point that the phone is in use. And there's nobody else in the house beside joy so she picks up any picks up the receiver and she hears joy talking to a man who says okay tomorrow or or something like that and then they hang up and goes and confronts joined. I wasn't on the phone. And also she found her sketchbook yes she went in snooped in her room and looked to the sketchbook after the phone call because she was even more disturbed so joe I completely denies that she was on the phone and then Anne finds her sketchbook and she sees you know unlike their drawings of the kid what looked like the kid and all kinds of very disturbing imagery so she's panicking. She's crying and Anne is pretty much sure at this point. That amity is joy and I was too I I was hunting but yeah but here's the thing I mean. If she gave her all the medication in the ice cream she should've just let it take effect. I know and instead she tries to strangle her. Her and then escapes runs outside and and tries to Untie a boat to escape. Yep and a Any jumps after her and they struggle in the water and she ends up drowning her. Which is really ironic and also kind of cool? Because that's what she was GonNa the beginning. I mean just think it's not the way they played that parallel. You know I liked it. I liked it. Yeah and so she goes back in the house and this is now enjoys just floating in the water and I don't know why I laugh at these things but it. It was such a weird famous. You just kind of left her there and like you know waddled back into the house so she finds this letter finds a letter from joy where joys explaining to her you know. I'm sorry I lied to you. I really need to be on my own. The man I was talking to it was a lawyer was going to. We were talking about emancipation. And I'll always love you blah blah blah. So then any thinks oh shit. She runs back out. She grabs joy from the water and tries to resuscitate her. And we think. I think that she succeeds. Well I will admit that when I watched that scene I was like really like. Oh you're drowning await let me go out and save you and I was like really like that easy to resuscitate someone right so I was just like okay thinking like that. That was weak. Yeah me too. I was like no right. No way that guy up and and as it turns out there's no way that could happen Yup and and We don't really get get it at first but I was starting to suspect because the next couple scenes they show joy no joy phone. She's so happy I I know that they are happier than ever been. And they're doing all these fun things together and they're paying very strong again. Yes and then they go to a book reading slash signing with Paul Sheldon and joy sitting next to her and she soaks. They're so excited to be there. And everything a man comes up and says to Annie. Excuse me as has anyone in this seat and she goes well there sure is Mr. Of course it's taken. Yeah or a like and then if if you noticed they were kind of lingering on some of the faces in the crowd at the book signing and I recognize the faces but I couldn't pinpoint them. I'm like wait. That's somebody and my daughter was like. Oh maybe the I think those were the people from the Marston House the reincarnate all the peace bio maybe. It's all people she killed. Hold on because I checked so I wasn't sure I but I knew I had seen their faces before. And then we find out that the chair next anti actually empty and the whole time she actually did kill joy and all of its in in her head so nice that is the end and she is just mesmerized world where the people in the audience her mother and her father. Well I do see her mother. I didn't notice her father. But what about other people you said you noticed other people from the Marston House. No my daughter said that maybe they were okay. Okay no yeah. 'cause I saw there were a couple of faces that I recognized. And I'm like I know some of these people and my daughter said Oh maybe the people the reincarnated people. It was her blue father right. Then Louis went and checked. We confirmed it was her mother and her father so she was seeing. Everybody did so. That's nice yeah. Yeah so I aw that was a fantastic ending. I just thought it was perfect. Just perfect so I thought the Paul Sheldon connection seemed a little bit forced. Like let's you just wrap it up and put a bow on it. But I didn't mind it. I didn't mind it because I think that they wanted to deliver to the fans. This is how anti became the person that was in the movie misery. This is what set her on that path. So the other thing that I thought was really cool as it felt to me a little bit. Like when rogue one the Star Wars movie ended right up and brought you right to the point. Yeah when a new hope started with Princess Leia. That was the feeling I got at the end of this. I'm like Oh my God. They brought me right to that moment right to the moment where she is just obsessed with Paul Sheldon. So I love that. I thought it was great. I didn't think it was really forced. I didn't I don't I don't agree agree. Well I didn't. I didn't mind it I just like I said I thought it was like. Let's put a bow on it and deliver it but again I didn't mind it. I will say overall Paul what I loved about. Anne is bitch was crazy. Okay Yeah and yet. We still felt sympathy for her. Like oh my gosh in memory and I guess the differences that stories being told from Paul Sheldon's point of view this is even though there's no necessarily a point of view for this series series like we really got some insight as to who she was in even though she was a vicious murderer. We knew that she wasn't malicious. I mean it was right. I mean she tried for so long so hard I mean sixteen years and really what it comes down to is. She was perfectly fine nine not one hundred percent but I mean she was taking her right cocktail of drugs. You was raising joy and everything was okay until she got to castle. Rock castlerock is the downfall of everybody so herald. Yes don't go there. That's the lesson the other thing. I wanted to mention real quick when we talked about that French film. The Joy was watching a lot of people. Say Well how how. How could she understand the French in the film and everything and I think it's just because they were in Canada and she was watching it but I think our emotions were coming from the content of the film and I didn't know this but I I read this from another commenter that the movie was actually a notoriously explicit? LGBTQ movie it call. Blue is the warmest color so knowing what we know about joy in her relationship with chance and all of that I think that may be as where her emotion could have come from from amity right. Yeah Yeah I think so too. Yeah so yeah fantastic fantastic season and do we want to talk a little bit about the Stephen King references. I think we've mentioned a few but there are a couple I really. Yeah one of the ones that I caught at that. I actually don't think a lot of other people caught but chance. There's one point when Rita comes to town. Retracts down chance because it was her phone she says. Well what's what's your what's your real name. And she says Georgia let chance and Gordie lachance is. The boy is will Wheaton's character in standby I am by. No I would have never known that. Okay now look. Don't you think she told looks like she could daughter. Could yeah totally yeah. She's got like the same face ace so I thought that was awesome and I think that she's probably his daughter and I hope that maybe they bring that up again because we don't have chance died either so I don't know I like I'd like to see her again The other girl just a little more stand by me. The other girl in the group was named Vera. The other friend and there was vern in stand by me. Okay you know So that was Kinda cool The Mellow Tiger Bar is again and again mentioned. That's from the book needful things they also have the mellow tiger in season one. So that's going going to be Probably a recurring location and and cancel the emporium. Gloria was also definitely folks. Yep Yep Someone and said that one of the cars that they showed an episode. Seven was the Christine car which I did not catch it all. I wouldn't know that but it you seeing Christine would you remember. Member of the car looked Y. Yeah it's yet. It's a pretty. Yeah I feel like I'm GONNA have to go check that out now. People people might WanNa Google that one. That sounds cool. Dairies mentioned several times that I guess Nans. Lunch is also a location. That's featured in a lot of kings books books and that's where the Flashback happened when pop and Abdur I'm sorry Abdeen. Nadia were first having milkshakes and fries with pop when they first Chris got adopted finance and I guess that's been name dropped a bit and of course any tells joy I'm your number one fan and that it was just a great great line. Yeah so I guess the ultimate question is will there be a season three. Oh there has to be I mean yes but it has. It has yet to be officially renewed for a third season but Dustin Thomason who we talked about before. The show runner doesn't seem to be worried about whether it will be back for another season. He said that a already have plans for season. Three including which Stephen King character they want to explore. Because I need time to prep for this and so this was in a collider article. They asked him. Do you already have a plan in place for season three. Do you know which characters you'd like to explore next if that happens and he said I could tell you but then an ice cream scoop you. He said Salmon. I tried to map things out. Broadly from the beginning. And you'll start to see some of that as the later episodes. Come come and definitely like you said we we start to see tied together. The plan was always to have an interconnected set of stories and while every season would be its own launching launching point. There would be this fabric of Stephen King's multi-diverse if you will that always bubbled beneath it and a unity to the stories that existed and so I think fans of season one will find things in season two which absolutely did and that may be that. They're not expecting along the way and when we get to season three I hope that there will be a continuation of what we've done in this season an an expansion and the audience will start to feel that there was a plan from the beginning I've got goosebumps. I was just GonNa say that gives me chills. I know I know I love this. Show so ma. I could never imagine being a writer for this. I'm I mean I'm a writer. Imagine doing this kind of writing. It's just while it was great so we are huge castle rock fans. We would like to thank you for taking a detailed walk down the season two lane and we'd love to hear what your favorite episodes were What you're open questions are from from castlerock season two and what you would like to see in Castle Rock Stephen in what you would like to see in castlerock season three what carothers rate it conversation? Dixon's yes I can't wait. I can't wait either well until then or until a few weeks from now it's going to take a week off for Christmas. Right sounds good. We'll be back in January with our best of two thousand nineteen and we will talk to you guys then. Bye Bye