2 Episode results for "Mabel Mercer"
FOF #2726 Being Mr. Rogers Gay Black Neighbor
"One of the most unexpected surprises from won't should be. My neighbor the documentary film on Mr. Rogers was just how fierce and unapologetically gay in real life is France wall Clemens the actor who played officer Clemens on mister Rogers neighborhood, Francois. Joined the pioneering children's TV show as a young man and spent decades playing officer Clements as one of the first African Americans to have a recurring role on children's television, Francois was in a unique position to help bread Rogers open his eyes to the struggles of disenfranchise people in turn Francois. Linda taken the love that Fred had to give today. We're delighted to talk to officer Clemens Francois diva man Scarborough Clemens from his home in Vermont about coming out as gay to Mr. Rogers his love for turquoise jewelry. And is there any truth to the recently revealed rumor was by sexual I'm Faust? Fairness I Mark villian. And this is feast of fun. There are many ways to say I love you thought that was officer Clements thing now, it's just me Fausto. You did a good job though. Thank you. Thank you. I think that's on every night before I go to bed wants to good way to say. I love you. How to say I love you. We love you the listeners. You are the people who make this show possible without your support. Feast fund would not be able to do these depth one kind LGBT tastic shows from our delicious home kitchen into your ears and into your life. The best way to support the podcast is to become a plus member, and you can do that feast to fund dot com slash plus. But we've also got our own brand new neighborhood. At patriot patriotic dot com slash feast of fun unlock a world of fun and access fifteen years of our vaults of amazing one of kind videos and podcasts of your face. Favorite brilliant artists that we feature here on define. We thank you so much for your support. And now our feature presentation, let's listen to clip from the documentary film won't you be my neighbor where friends Clemens talks about his extraordinary relationship with Mr. Rogers ranch Clements. I welcome. Thank you. How you doing? Ryan. How are you today feet were carrots? And I thought I'd just them for a while in this water. Does it make them feel better? It does would you like to try sure on the show? He would say I love you just the way you are one said, Fred we talking to me looked at me. And he said, yes, I've been talking to you for two years. You finally heard me today, and I just collapsed into his arms. I was I started crying. That's when I knew that. I loved him are many ways. There are many way. No man, ever told me he loved me like I needed to hear all my life. My dad never told me myself father, never told me. So from became my surrogate father. So proud of you, France. Oh, thank you. Fred. Hello, Mr. Fausto man on here. Hi, francois. This is Fausto to hear you. And I'm Mark I'm here to argue. We're big fans. I'm sorry. Who else does that back there, Mark? I'm Fausto co host and husband. Oh. From your neck of the woods from Erie, Pennsylvania originally. Oh, my Lord right across the lines. Dateline? From Youngstown Francois. Thank you so much for coming into our neighborhood feats to fund how're you doing today. We changed our time about two weeks ago. And I have not recovered. You make you make a leap forward and fall back. So you get an extra. I don't wanna fall. But Lord, I lost that hour in the morning. I'm just not me yet. What what is your daily routine? Like, it's so wonderfully different. It can be whatever I wanted to be almost I still travel and do yesterday parents is what is showing the movie wants to be my neighbor. So I could be in Florida. I could be in Pennsylvania. I could be in San Francisco. So that it depends on how I'm hooked. That's the first thing if I'm booked somewhere, then I generally try to adhere to schedule that's been official for where I am. If they have a symposium. And there's a lecture at ten o'clock in the morning that kind of stuff adjust to their schedule on mister Rogers neighborhood. You played a police officer officer clemons. Yes, I imagine that a lot of people at that time may. I have actually thought you are an actual police officer where you ever out in a bedroom and people are like officer Clements helped me. Yes. Did they call pollution and both red had made a lot of you know, introduction. Yeah. As to who who I was. And what I was. And it was a a job that I did in in. Oh, come on front of the it's not not Brentwood. It's Queen Sarah. She was not a Queen yet. She was she wasn't even talking about the land of make believe on the show yesterday. But she did not live in Macra. She lived in the next town over it was something like rent would or something would Westwood's. Yes. It was like Westwood or something. And so that's what Queen Sara lived. And that's why we're I was there with her. And I was her escort who brought her who the neighborhood of make believe to court with with king Friday. He wanted me to bring her over. So I went and got her and brought her over to the neighborhood of make believe and each time in the beginning. She came over. I'd brought her over and then she loved my singing so invariably we got over. She would have to say a song in that some of accent. And then, you know, that's Queen is basically, you know, she's based on fringe wife. Joann rogers. Okay. So you had a lot of scenes with Queen. Sara the puppet. Yeah. The actual puppet. Westwood? I would go over and get her and bring her to the neighborhood of make believe what she would be with king Friday. Was there a little romance between Friday and Sarah? Exactly. That's why winning team requested it. When the king requests, something you do it. Araya away in mister Rogers neighborhood, you one of the few characters that actually physically went between the land of make believe which was mostly puppets and human actors and Fred's house. Yes, I did that, but I also went to Westwood war queens. So how did it come to be that you an opera singer at the time started performing on mister Rogers neighborhood and made history as the first recurring black character on children's television show where you guys going to the same church together the time, well, whereas I didn't go to church with him. Oh, hi was solar third. I I had autism for the August. John live. They wanna French closest friends. And so I was hired professional singer to be there every Sunday, and in the course of being there. I was requested to saying I was solos. It's a wonderful wonderful church with a very generous music budget. So as I. Saying those ten are solos Fred fell in love and many people have in the past. Thank well. It's it's true. There are many letters the fan the fan mail. It's coming in here. I testify some people think I can sing song. And it was one of the first Pittsburgh anyway. So what happened was treads wise, JoAnne sang on the Porte right next to the tenors. I was Tennessee's an Alto. And she's all you must meet my husband. I can't tell you. How many times I heard that? And I was thinking this is wonderful Naty. I don't her all of her spirit, her Hume on shed, a great sense of humor. I don't need to meet anybody else to appreciate this wonderful woman. While augments also said, you must meet my buddy for it. Roger we hang out together. I go over there, blah, blah. So I and organised hit it off we had a wonderful professional relationship. And I suggested that we do especial Good Friday musical program of American negro spirituals similar to what you do at Christmastime full that they call. Lessons and carols. But this was to the passion of the suffering of Christ. And when you do that, you do were you there crucifixion he never said a mumbling word Calvary of work working. I find him and the angels roll away. There's a Warrender ful. There is America goes Grizzle. You never hear them in that context. So I put together this Good Friday service and the organise and the past they loved it. They advertise put up a poster too and the church was packed. Well, when it was over Fred came up to me, and he was just I mean, just one big tear. He was so moved. He's a I don't realize he was in seminary, and that he was studying this kind of literature to get his men in St. ordination together. And he told me how deeply to you. Then by such a service. No, one to my knowledge it ever done a service like this before. So he said may I take you? Lines, please. And I'm interested because I was stupid and anytime I could get a free meal. I took it. I did that. And so he and the organist and JoAnne arranged when we would meet at the restaurant in Pittsburgh all of the game. We went over there. And it was such a shock to me after we had a drink which is mostly just water and hot chocolate or something. They say goodbye we have to go. I said what we haven't had dinner yet. I haven't had that free Neil. So they say go buy it left, me and trade. Well, it was like a relationship made in heaven. He was introverted. I was the extrovert, and you know, stopped listening, and I never stopped talking. I did I found somebody who had any obstacle. Patience to listen to whatever I wanted to talk about. I got a few friends like that who understood the nature of an extrovert. Well, Fred, I I didn't realize probably had I been wiser more intuitive more sensitive, and I know what was going on in Pittsburgh. I'm not said this man might be interviewing me for his television program. You don't know. But I didn't never cross my mind. I just kept talking and he asked me a question from time to time the thing that really really won me over. It was like it's like he he enveloped us and such a warm feeling of intimacy of being friends so quickly. I never had such a a powerful embracing friendship someone after about fifteen minutes. So I felt like I known him all my life. I wound up telling him stuff that I would not nearly talk about was Mr. Rogers the first person you came out to his gay. Not not the first one that one of the one of the first one of the important ones. I my former wife, and I talked about it. So I had a couple of buddies whom I try to talk about it to me on ever talked about that. Again, don't bring that up. Again, can't go down that route. It's it'll be terrible for you. I tried to tell my music teacher in Ohio high school. I tried to tell, you know, pastor at mine Baptist church. I had I was very close relationship with one of the deacons. I tried to talk to deacon everybody said, no, no, no, no, no, whatever you do. Don't do that. Don't go that way. I received a unanimous. No from everybody it was profoundly disappointing. And so that the really nice, I even mentioned Fred was because I went to a club and downtown Pittsburgh called the play pin. And I I had gone to three nights. I had a wonderful time dancing. That's all I did. But. It didn't matter one day. He calls and says France, we need to have an appointment. We need to talk. And I assumed it was something to do with office Clinton's that always got role. I have been to the costume costume. Ye and gotten an outfit son on the show some six or seven times it was going very well. But when I walked into his office, it was like a bomb off in that was so quiet, and so gone or and he said did you go to club downtown the other night caught me off guard. I said what right club. You know that that that gay clubs down there place? Then I sat there stunned. He's a how do you know, whether the club is. Well, that was you know, my reaction he said someone told me told us here at the at the station that you were down there. And we've thought about it funds. We don't think he should go down there because somebody will see you there. And we'll either write about it or take your picture or put it in a magazine, and they'll say things that may be very, very inappropriate and untrue. People are not always kind about a person who wants to go to a club. No matter what you're doing there. They can make money painting very friendly picture. I literally set an year at the bottom had dropped out. What in the why wasn't? I did all he said you can't go back there anymore. I I said, yes, I was there. I was just dancing. And he basically said it doesn't matter what you were doing if people if you choose to go back there, you're an adult you certainly can. But then you cannot be on the show anymore. Because the sponsors will not support on opening gay person on children's television program. Well, that was just a hard bringing stab in my heart. I literally, you know, I'm on a twenty four year old man who has grown up in Youngstown, Ohio, which is practically being in the stick. That's not a metropolitan, you know, like Philidelphia the DC those urban centers were going on not young saddle Hieaux. I I had nothing to prepare me for that kind of abrupt challenge to to my the hater I also hadn't been out really yet. I hadn't talked to very many people because I knew there Lux people disapprove of my being gay. And so it was not something that I could explore in a healthy manner. So I say, well, Fred, what should I do? Because he said to me if you're gay that's fine with me. Personally for you are part of our family, and we are never ever that is never going to be a problem for all of us. But it's the role on television and that those repercussions, but in will not work. What year did this conversation? Take place. Let's see sixty eight. So this is a year before even the stonewall riots took place in New York City. It was literally at the same time. But it was in Pittsburgh was stonewalls going on in New York and milk was going on in San Francisco. And I was having my stove waffle considering what a big news story that year was with the stonewall riots. Did you and Fred Rogers ever talk about gay liberation at? All yes. Yeah. I discuss anything with him. I discover mad that conversation. Even though it made it very clear that TBS public broadcast thing. They were not prepared what an actor to be openly gay on camera. But I discovered the Fred had a very very lesson attitude about my being gay. It's simply was not an issue personally. And you made that very clear to me. What do you make about the recent article being shared on the internet right now that claims Mr. Rogers was bisexual commented a little bit on your Facebook page. But can you talk a little bit more about it? Well, I don't think I have much more to say, except I think supposition, and I think it's a I said it on Facebook. It's a discussion. It's a topic that cannot be fully fully discussed in detail and come to a conclusion because Fred is dead. Secondly, there's no visible truth. There never will be. It's interesting personality like Fred Rogers, even long after his death is still very much alive in the hearts and minds of so many people there so many rumors and. Legends that he was in the Vietnam war that he was a sniper the had tattoos Oliver his body. Mr. Rogers will forever be locked into people's minds and imaginations very loving person period. He was so gentle he was so kind it came natural to him to be kind to me. That's how I saw it. And you never raise his voice at some twenty plus years twenty seven years twenty eight years, and I knew him he was patient. He was born to be the role that he was on television with children that was the real Fred Rogers. Yeah. -solutely profoundly different. I can sometimes be a very what's the word. Unpredictable almost have split personalities. Sometimes I think when I catch myself I can up rather than being patient and listening and evaluating what's going on around. I just being an extrovert. I'm an extrovert introvert. You get jammed by being around people. Yes. I do. I do. I do I do. And I love it. I can get him in the morning a Cup of coffee and go here world here. I am the other he locks the door behind me, you know, adult coming here. I don't wanna see anybody. What's really interesting the chemistry of the relationship that you guys had because here is somebody who for all practical purposes, if Fred Rogers was trying to start a television show today, they'd be like, why do you want to do? This people are going to be say all kinds of untrue things about you. People are going to be speculating about your putting yourself out there. And it's going to be really draining for you to be constantly people wanting to interact with you versus for yourself. It seemed like it was just a natural. Evolution of your passion for performance and music to want to be in front of the television camera. It was for me. But I think you have to you misunderstand don't quite. How dedicated he was to educating young children what was going on at that time so violent so against what he thought was the nature of young people. And it wasn't doing what he saw as a total. And how that tool could be used to educate and to explore the the emotion children. It wasn't being done at all. He was a pioneer those incredible possibilities of television were not being explored when it came to children and talking about things that were important to them. I mean today we just literally take it for granted. But nobody was telling the kid you can't go down the drain or it's it's okay. When your parents have to go to work or the little sister coming, you know, our brothers coming or parents do get divorced. I mean, you go down the list of things that children have to deal with about it. And especially when Robert Kennedy April fourth doctor team was fascinated. And then I think it was doing aid Robert Kennedy was assassinated. Oh, and Daniel, and Betty Evelyn have sensitive wonderful, Shane, I just I mean, I love it for its Poors incredible truth and the song that they sing and stuff. You know, this word assassination. You know? It's a big word for a little two year old three year old kid keep saying over and over to clarify for people may not be familiar. This is an episode of mister Rogers neighborhood where they were Daniel tiger. A tiger puppet is talking to the actress aber lady Berlin about the Kennedy assassination or just the word. What is assassinated mean? Because of the tiger was was a hearing this word a lot in wasn't understanding it. And he's so young as portrayed as a character is definitely a very very young character. And so he does not know what he's afraid. He what the word might me. But he's not sure. So he's trusting lady Adeline to explain to them. What does assassination really me, and she has a gentle, very honest way of telling him that is when someone is killed and that person is not expecting this surprise is not a good surprise. So Fred was the first one who dared to talk to young children about this kind of thing that was a risky topic to address to children the time. How was it received? All true. Tremendous tremendous because no very positive parents wanted to talk about it too. They weren't grieving and the kids look anything. Mommy. What's the matter or daddy? What's the matter? Why are you so sad that this opened the door in the best way? So that the kid could ask what he needed to ask. And you didn't have to tell them more than they were ready for one of the most memorable characters of mister Rogers neighborhood land of make believe was lady, Elaine Fairchild. Hey Tut's as somebody talking about me. So as a puppet, we're sort of based on the punch and Judy puppets. Right. She was has. It's not at all. No, no, no. I thought it was time for punch and Judy based more on Fred Rogers, sister sister. No, I'm talking about the visual appearance of the puppet. People had said that used to talk to credit about it. Was stressed that. I that's all I'm gonna say, I'm not, you know, I'm not sitting here as Alaska thirty. Judy. I'm just telling you, I don't quite think he went down that road as as truthfully is faithfully. It's like people who want that urban legend that Fred had tattoos on his body. It's just not thread, it is some similarity because the character. But see what what I find most interesting about the lady, Elaine Fairchild character is that she was the sassy troublemaker she was into mischief, and she actually people touch. And I thought that was an, and that's you know, sort of Fred doing a drag character. Because it was Fred Rogers working that puppet that was Fred's female voice cuts. Yeah. He was the voice of all of them. Daniel hitting me, Etta and. Harrieta pussycat meow meow other characters he was also many many many characters doomed forget X, the our credit head a wonderful way of being funny of expressing parts of himself through the the puppets that he wasn't as comfortable in real life talking to someone that way, and Jean said that himself. It was a lot easier for the car to say something, and it was for him to say them. So he didn't where you ever tempted to play with the puppets yourself and come up with your own characters. No realize a I'm a ghetto. Boy, I'm not a middle class white guy from the upper upper class or anything like that. Where I grew up men did not play with puppets. Is that simple. And I struggled with that. I talked to Fred bread. This is a cultural difference and white people don't always understand black people do play with puppies the same way. I'm serious. We often talked about how incredibly different I live. Have been I grow very poor. He grow very rich. He's entitled I'm I'm the some of slaves the descendant of slaves in this country. We have very very different life. I've been discriminated against in terms of walking into a place in Baltimore. And having someone say they're just can't come in here. I'm sorry. Get out Fred has never had that kind of racial experience in America. So when it came to public and being a policeman. We were at completely opposite in the spectrum. And we talked about it. He was a person you could talk to him about anything. Yeah. Patient was kind. It was intuitive. He listened to what I was trying to say to him. I had to be a teacher to upper class white men. Live sheltered light that was going on at the same time that these other questions you're asking me were going on. That was a seri-. Side of being on the program. And there were many things going on on mister Rogers neighborhood that we're not going on in front of the camera. But we're very important to what you eventually saw on camera. So the conversations you had with Fred Rogers about the social issues of the time helped shape the program and how he developed it. That's a very important factor. And you were hesitant to take on the role of a police officer as a as a African American person didn't have the the police was police violence something difficult for mister Rogers to understand. Yeah. Because his mother had told him that police, then what helpers you understand the difference? She didn't know anything about black boys. Having to be told the lesson survival or black boys being shot in the back when they had no weapons walking down the street in nineteen fifty five when the boy from Chicago was killed in Alabama. She did not have those frames of references for Fred. But my parents did. So I would say than San Fred what I went through. It was very different life than his. So when I travel around America, and we won't you be my neighbor, we'll say, well, what was going on? I help them to understand that we are at a cultural, crossroads and some very important issues. That are being brought up we're telling the real history, and what it was like in nineteen fifty nineteen fifty five nineteen sixty you don't say, it was not never never wonderful land. People say the good old days. They never existed. Never we've always had these racial problems that we're having in our country. The difference is because of some people in the political arena out in the open in a way that they never were before we're not whispering about racism. But there all the time in my opinion. I say is the open wound of America that we can finally quit through tending doesn't exist on now that we don't. Okay. Well, now that we now that we're not pretending that it doesn't exist. Where do we go from here? Well, the dialogue. We've only begun to have the dialogue. And you know, one of the things that they talk about is this thing that white people, especially white men, a fragile and that they can't stand the truth that they've been entitled fed was entitled to a law. Have mercy it was entitled. So we talked even often say, well, what can I do friends, but what is the role now for a man like myself who basically he shot he was shy teased as a boy for being a little overweight. But generally speaking, he was protected I on the other hand, we're never protected, so how do you survive? What do you do? And he showed what an empathetic sensitive intelligent, man. He was the most of the time. I said first of all you have sure hire some black people to be working at that station. Cannot be lily white. So you take care of that take care of those things which you can take your on integrated cast that is another step that you can take it doesn't seem like very much but adds up. The other thing is issues that are important to black people. Let's talk about them. They're not just like people everybody. It's a divorce single mother, you know, on and on having one job or parents, go to work and not stay at home. Generally speaking, it had a feeling of being a suburban and being, you know, upper class white. How are you still there? We're less than two. It's really great to hear that Fred Rogers was really committed to making the world a better place, not just on television. Not just for the lives of children. But also for adults as well. Fred Rogers, had a TV show a talk show for adults called old friends new friends what did? What did you did? I was involved with comfortably house in New York City. Okay. And coming into urban New York the minute that program starts. Oh, my God is so different than the way. This Rogers neighborhood traditionally starts he did that to three times. And it wasn't just a mine abor hood. He went out of the places and visited and talked with the people who live there. I felt that was able that. And just a wonderful thing when I saw this show. I it's like I jumped into the screen and a way differently than when I saw the regular and insurance music and stuff I said, oh my God. Fred the way the guy's edited the show and the way they did certain things I simply felt that was wonderful, and then he'd had a boy on doing break, dancing and outside of the neighborhood outside of his house. And that boy was so chiming that I mean, he he could just charm to the color office. You know, what I'm trying to say he did thing that was so wonderfully culturally diverse a Spanish woman on there. A black lady who the black lady was the exercise maven? I mean, she she just jumped up and down with the jumping row and exercise stuff. She was fantastic. Can't think of it name right now. But nevertheless episodes of mister Rogers neighborhood, though that you're talking about direct not not something else afterwards. Okay. No. No. No. No, no. I'm speaking what Fred did on the program. The have them have more than just a white suburban play ver- it incorporated casting. He had the woman. Ella l l l l refers thing who's a wonderful storyteller. Black lady from New Orleans. He had Mabel, Mercer a great singer from New York black lady he had went and more solves the great trumpeter from New Orleans. He had black people sharing. Our culture and that jazz jazz orchestra. Oh, Mary Lou Williams came to my studio, a great jazz pianist that traveled into in with Duke Ellington, so that when you saw the program you began to see a wonderful mixture of racial things that happen in our society. That's one of the things I know he was very actively about I started the Harlem spiritual on Sambol in nineteen eighty like that and had us on the show as guests on two different occasions. And unfortunately, when he stopped he was owed me third. Visit for my. Did you ever get that that free meal from Fred? Back there that was that Stoker's restaurant. I made I certainly did. I was able to eat and talk. What kind of things did you guys do to relax us friends like 'cause I imagined you guys have had such a close friendship. We did. Let me tell you. It's the prizes people Frederick into the seminary there, Pittsburgh, and I have studied the bible on the part of the Baptist church in Youngstown, Ohio. And I had read the bible from colored cover about about a hundred times I mean rating, but I'm giving you an impression of the kind of background which had a lot to do with being gay and praying homosexuality away that was one of the things I talk about in the movie that was an active part of my life. Also. So a big part of what we were doing what discussing biblical passages and what they meant. I love talking about the bible now because I was trying to convert anybody or I felt Christianity was better than anything else. That was just what I was. And Fred within Shannon, airy go we were discussing the product. Oh, son was one of the major subjects that we studied. And talk about God unconditional love for humankind. Another that we talked back and forth about what's Peter and his relationship to Jesus. And the washing of the feet, what it meant we talked about a brick in that instance, thing where got the brick and have been discarded by the builder, and he made the cornerstone of his ministry, and there's a saying on this on this stone corner, I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. There were things like that here pardon. I was gonna ask was the Washington defeat is when Peter watched the disciples of the apostles feet was under the season. Was was that part of the discussion. You guys had before you got into the swimming pool with Fred. The. A little kid. It was a bout the swimming pool. We only gotten the kiddies pool, and yes, that's what we were discussing because around the country, you know, people putting chemicals in the city municipal pools were run by the city where people pay taxes everybody pay tax. But white people you're not one black people take advantage of this very very unfair. Especially when I saw it on television. I was outraged. I told him what can we do about that? That's terrible. And the idea to was that they were children young people who were in those pools. And those mean people when throwing these chemicals, which can burn your skin. They can leave you scarred. They can your eyesight. It was a horrible scene to me. And I peel to Fred what can you do? He was to me a fixer. And he said I need to think about that friends. And indeed he did think about it and on the surface. I thought he was only talking about color. He was sunny day doing outside of house. You have this feat? Cooling in the water friend comes along happen to be black. And he says join invites me to join him. I take my boots my socks off law. My pants like, and I join him the most natural thing in the whole world. And he shows the picture to the audience, and the wonderful wonderful quiet naturalness about doing this with Fred. And. He gets a tremendous response. Around the country from people who feel that he makes such a powerful racial statement that for many of them. It begins the conversation and it settles this at Mr. Rogers is not racist not prejudice. Then neither can we be. Resolved for many people the other part of it is he says to me I said, well, Fred, I don't have a tunnel or anything. He says you may use my towel. Well, it gets a little heavier did because here's a white man on entitled white man saying to send it of a slave sitting here black as all get out next to me with feet wet and not only do I hand him the towel as he begins to dry his feet. Then he helps me. Yeah. Actually touches my feet on television. That was a really powerful moment where law of people and for it's definitely it touches the scriptures. Which Peter was reluctant for Jesus to do that to him. And he didn't Peterson Jesus to Peter. If I cannot wash your feet new are not my disciple and Peter relent, and they do it together. And at that time that Peter says, you all the messiah the son of the living God and Jews. This is not in revealed to you except through my father, which is in heaven, God has given you this understanding Peter that idea behind that is the power of humility of service of generosity. That's the word their hood. Yes service, the great among you leader, meter tall, the deepest spiritual serves, it's a very powerful symbols. And I think that's something that a lot of people don't grasp even today in terms of leadership positions too late as to serve. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And Fred in my opinion, fully grasp that one who leads his one who serves the most one who leaves my, sir. Not only that not only that. But in our modern understanding of Christianity, Peter is the rock upon which Jesus build his church. Peter represents that in Rome. It's called Saint Peter is all calls ain't Paul thing. Judy. It's better thing Charles in Saint Peter's, a reason, and that's the part where a lot of like the allusions really struggle with because I. Gay black to the Senate right slave that which the builders have discarded represent Peter. I'm curious to know like all these years later. I'm sure you've gone too many gay bars to dance into saying. And have a good time. What goes through your mind, anytime you ever go into a gave are a lot of times. I didn't go because I don't smoke, and it'd be a lot of smoking until they stop that. I wasn't interested in going, quite frankly, I've never smoked I don't drink very much. My I have to alcoholics parents, my my daddy wasn't alcohol. And my mother was in a neighbor and she also began to drink. You never drank like my father. So and then I had a sister and two brothers who are alcoholics. So I would if I went to a gay bar there and drink tonic water all night and danced if I knew somebody in and I wanted to I had friends who would be there hanging out in bars is not that interesting to me. I can't Dan good you more. But I did instead of going to bars. I'd watch baseball game. I love baseball sports. And I find that far more interesting than sitting at the bar la- gave our alone. You know, I tell people this. Sometimes they believe me sometimes know, but I've never had a lover doesn't mean. I'm virgin that. I'm I'm selling but most of the time. And so I'm not going out looking to the home, they stranger simply does not appeal to me. But if I go out, I go out with friends to dinner. Oh, come on in. Yes. Lady who's mind instance, he's walking very quietly, so it's not disturbed me. And when I turn around I'm looking and so she's writing I'm in my office. So you so you don't have a partner husband. No, no, I don't I don't have a boyfriend a partner. What? Husband the doors open. But no one has walked through the door. And I think sometimes I think celibacy is what repaired me to do what I do in life in terms of passing on the unconditional love of Fred Rogers. I call it. Fred love. I should. I should what is where she's copyright that. I call it read law 'cause I get it all over the country. This incredible outpouring of love from people everywhere, I go, and he is in the movie unconditional love where I realized that love has no car, no gender. Inch. What God is what who created the universe is? And what we have to understand. We are essentially, and that's why this is in my opinion. And I think for it practices. We are wondering where one one unit down here not with regret in fighting and separation and who's better and whose worth is. So full of crap I have no patience with it. Listen, I watch. And I think that people allow themselves in fortunately to miss. Wonderful wonderful pleasures joys in life because they draw a line at color answering. If you're this caller, you can't do this with me orca that I won't do that you and in a processing really investing humanity. Something I had like an awakening what I was reading the studio that day. And it looked like he was talking to me. When off said he said, yes, I've been talking for two years. But you finally heard me today. It's you. It's you. Act. It wasn't is on life. Yeah. Yes. And when I I I had never that. No man to me. I love you, not one. And that's why with Fred gone that we always tell the people, you know, I participate in forms dedicated sorta exploring ideas of the legacy of Fred Rogers, work and your work by boxes. Well, and that we have to we have to be those type of people for our own communities, our own friends and family and understanding love love is very empty word when we don't understand what it means. And for me, it's about creating opportunities for people to be heard and understood express themselves creatively right to belong to accepted. Not the judge judge because the male that's comes into me. It is. Asking red. Rogers would like me the way I am. I'm gay or on the trend or I'm a lesbian or I'm transgender. Dr. I don't know what I am. You'd think you'd love me. I always take time and write them back. I they. Yes. Yes. So do you gotta weren't you pay attention? He said at one hundred different ways. Like the clothes you wear. Not the way, you comb your hair. It's you I lied for crying out. It wouldn't work. Drink. People just people just don't listen though. Sometimes you do after scream. But sometimes they are young born. After you know, I'm I'm in my seventies. And some of these New Zealander twenties or teens. They haven't heard it. And they haven't heard from yet don't watch that children's show, and they're not hearing it on other children's programs. No other not hearing at home. They're not hearing at school, no, serious, homophobic, and negative elements of society. That's what they hear. And we still have people committing suicide. We have people who throw it out of their homes because they're gay parents who just don't understand. And there are even Christian religions, the Methodist recently heady thing with ministers cannot be gay and be opening gay and minister, we have other religions who forbid it. So some of the kids more Mormons, and what have you are not getting that positive message? And so people like you and me we have to keep saying. And the letters that come in and say to me, I'm a Mormon. I'm the Baptist where I'm a Methodist or Catholic. Fred love me for being gay. And if I say, yes, I think that person is a law, happier. Which I believe I believe deeply I think they're Fred would say that if he were a lot. That's the most important thing isn't love is a verb is active as you earlier. It's not something that you just saying it's there you have to live it. And also. We we have to create and you were saying earlier atmosphere opportunities to express that low. So the family is how I think say great, great, great family, and we have to be supportive. Some of those other people who are judgmental. Are if we're not then our work will be in vain and kids will hurt themselves. They'll disappear. And I'm gonna do everything I can to sustain and continue the legacy of Fred Rogers. We need more red love. How are there ever times that you doubt yourself or you feel like you don't love yourself or appreciate what you have to offer other people? What do you do when they did? No, I did some years ago. All the guests, the less, I doubt. Because I I know who I am. I meditate every day. I pray. I meditated pray. I keep a very. Special kind of private life. It reinforces who I am telephone who I am it it also encourages me. I'm stroked by the universe. And I'm told that I I'm doing the right thing. I just finished writing a memoir, which you talked about eight or nine months, I have a publisher in New York and doing their very latest details will finish with all the major editing and stuff. And while I was writing that book. I felt like Fred visited me often. So I'm in the office now, but I come into this room in my home, which is exclusively all office. I get quiet and several times. I'd fall asleep sitting at the desk when I'm writing and I feel like fridge presents. It's what guided me to write that the parcel or he's very active important like I was writing the memoir mostly about myself. And I kept including things. The he and I had done together. And my literary agent said to me stop everything soi, you need to do this a bit more, but stress those special things happen with you. And Fred Rogers. So it's almost like I started all over again. And I wrote what I felt was important about me. And Fred, so and she read that and she was she's I'll be the editors I started sending them to her five six seven pages out of time. Well, after about three months, or so she said, you know, what we need to put what you've written as a memoir together with what you re trade Rogers that. That. All that work. It takes time. I listened to her and I feel like it was God talking to me. And I said, what do you really think that she said, yes, I really do. I one of the reasons shit. She said she caught that was she has sent book out to twenty thirty publishers and three four those publishers has said the same thing to her. And she said it's coming through in a certain way, I think they're on just well, she and I got busy and it took about seven eight months. I'm were clock in the morning. All the time me and my doggy here. And I got busy writing. No shortcut. Leave me burning the midnight oil. About five or six months ago finished it put it putting them together with her incredible help. I mean, she was right at my elbow. And all kinds of suggestions. And out of those suggestions came something that I'm incredibly proud of. I mean when I read it. Oh my God. I wrote that because it takes on a whole different dimension. Because I feel it represents America is black and white, and it's got the struggle. But it's also got the success. Challenge. And the all we approach some of the challenges. Will give you a different picture of misery neighborhood than anybody else. Writing about him could possibly give you none of the rest of my beloved peers can write about it the way I can place comeback show and talk about it. When the book is out. I will be very happy. You're looking at your website diva man my life in song or is is that a working title? Well, that was the title when I was writing about two years ago. And I think it's. More than motive song more than just how lucky it is to be able to tell this amazing story, and this profound experience with another person that has influenced your life so much and the world though much. Yes, you're absolutely right. I feel anointed and blessed motivated in a way that sometimes cannot find the words what a beautiful experience it is to share. Fred, love everywhere. I go one question. I wanted to ask you before we go is your love for your turquoise jewelry. Whereas I love jewelry. I love clothes. It's one of the prizes came with traveling around America. I never expected to be doing children's television program. I I went to overland college. I never got any training. So, you know, our strength. We're all headed for the Metropolitan Opera. And so here, I am on a children's always program in Pittsburgh. Hello, which was a steel calm, blue collar, and there I m people like, Fred Rogers. We would go there Zona and Texas and places. So eventually, I decide I'm tired of bringing charges goes home that you gotta death. They're going to be a mess, and sometimes you get to them. Anyway, sometimes you spend more money than they're worth a tourist. So I said if I I love turquoise, we're gonna look around I had a piece from New Mexico and a piece whereas oughta, and you know, like that I thought why don't I get some jewelry? My mother says that we have native American blood. I'm not pulling little wiring. But that's you know. My great grandmother. She says. Oh. Oh on my father's high. Okay. I'm gonna start collecting some turquoise. And the next thing I know people were giving especially back Easter you don't see much up your liver, Vermont who Hampshire and Maine Boston. I discovered that. It's very attractive that I love it. My goodness. A waitress in a restaurant maybe on that. Because you didn't like abortion anymore, and she didn't want it. Put up on you put it around my neck. I don't know beautiful woman. Also. They give you the ring. Stones people stones and I've had them strong here Informatica working beautiful too. 'cause I it makes me think of like, Mr. T with the gold necklaces, but for you. It's like it's turquoise jewelry. I listed t- only wears all recalled I like the green a with. I wouldn't just wear on goal. I like, but I love jewelry. And also, I I haven't been in crystals. Hell I wear wrong. You know, rose crystal. Ember looking at myself. Couple of books about healing meditation. And so I have many stone in ball. Shell there. My living room which. Displaying? The mini mini mini courts and stone web. Around america. And Italy Italy. Vatican got them. I wanted to. Embarrass. I like walk past storms. France swamp. Diva man Scarver. Officer Clemens to issue you a citation for stealing our hearts. Well, well, I guess I'm guilty. And but I consider your sentence commuted for good for good behavior. Thank you so much very kind guy. Thank you. Judge you to. A copy a an Email when I might be able to listen to this where without a doubt feast fund dot com. Okay. Are you coming to Chicago any time soon to show the movie out there? The university of not. Never know. I'd love to come. So. Chicago all parts, we're on the north side. But you know, it's you know, it's one big where is good place. Got Willamette up here by the Baha'i temple. Yes. We're not too far that I. It's. Twenty minute drive is not to Lord you very closely. Okay. I just to it for friend of mine by friends behind. They told me when I was in. I was in call with Fred when Jane Jamieson, the mayor woman chambered with the mayor. Burn burn J for it. Well, we came there when they were renovating downtown as a couple of children's concerts. Several years in a row in those downtown with state lakes hit or something like that. I don't know. I can't remember and it's been so it's been like three years ago. But she and wrote the street all you'd walk in the street and stuff, and we I I really really those marina towers car early. New circular we. We. News. They are the carton yet. Been there stuff. I also there when you in March when they turn their on the river green Saint Patrick's Day they've been doing that since the sixties, I think. Well, I, you know, I started nineteen sixty three and gore. I went to Russia with the overland college choir and I've been coming to Chicago ever since. I love Chicago, windy city. Love it better the summer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's called grew. It is called in Vermont. I came here to teach love the people all of these I call soft intellectual outdoors, lots of them there. And none of love is there. Anything like nice kids? This to you. And give a shoutout to Bernie Sanders up there. Up here. Well, there's all kinds of goods maple syrup. Bernie sanders. Clemen? Jerry's Vermont got a lot of good stuff. Certainly does. That's true. I'm a Middleburg college, you know, medal. Thing. Yeah. Middlebury college. I've twenty twenty two twenty three years. I'm retired now. But good Lord. I'm just as busy. I'm very happy about that. Yeah. I'm pretty busy. No complaint. We're gonna do a road trip. Come knock on your door. All right. We talk a little bit more in depth about philosophy and life and love. Yes. We did. Yes. We certainly can't. Thank you very much for wanted me to be on your show. I enjoyed it for you are dream dream guest. For for me. I'm a child who grew up watching you and Mr. Rogers on television. I remember all these episodes, very, clearly and listening to your voice takes me back to my own childhood and a native. Under forty seven years. You're so young. Thing and. Part of it is like it always tell people because they're always the lamenting the loss of some, you know, person that really they loved that influence them gave them a lot of mope. And I said it's your turn to be that person. Now for somebody else. I guess you tell them that. I I'm also up getting up. Yeah. I need to be Mr. Rogers for other people, and that's a really sound thing to think about, but it's like if we don't do it who will exactly you are. Exactly, right. Indeed. By the way, I love your name. What's your name from Puerto Rico? So Fausto is an old German word Fuste, and means to be lucky, and then Fedor no sense to play with fire. A name good enough that my mother looked at me as an infant child and said the stole upon the world Fausto, fairness and lo and behold, I haven't stopped since I crawl out of the womb. That love. Rico beautiful husband, Mark feeling him into club. And said have have we been talking on the internet as like internet? What is that? Somebody who looks like you. And I said, why don't you come in my house, and I'll show it to you. And I went never loved. You wish me such a lot. I wish you luck. Why don't I love following you on social media at all all your status? Updates ravenous. Thank you very much. Take care. Keep stuff for today. Look at today. I show. Well, okay. All right. All right. Bye officer Clemens France, swaths diva man, Scarborough Clemens lives in Middlebury, Vermont, if you wanna follow Francois until show media, you can friend request them. But he might not accept him. Right and say freeze the fund set. That's a real dream come to sorry. Just choked up there that's dream come true for you. Isn't it to talk to Francois? I gotta tell you. I'm not gonna lie folks. I had lots of dreams of this specific podcast. And even last night. I had a nightmare that we were interviewing Fred Rogers and France wall and all the puppets from mister Rogers neighborhood. And we could not get the computer working. What isn't that man? That man. And I was like I'm so sorry. Just wait a little bit longer -iety dream. It is an exciting dream and part of it is because you know, the legacy of these great people speak so much to what we do here on the fun about creating opportunities and spaces for people to creatively, express themselves to speak and to be heard and the beautiful thing about a podcast is that allows us to create this program on a daily basis and reach out to you guys. We would not be able to be here if it wasn't for your support and the best way to support the show is to become a plus member, and you can do that feeds to fund dot com slash plus. But we also have a new patriot patriotic dot com slash feasta fund where you can check out videos podcasts and behind the scenes, videos and shows and podcasts that you aren't gonna get anywhere else. You unlock our vault and taste all our goodies. Kitchens open. And Honey this time around we're not holding back on anything. But a delight with talk to Francois. I just I fell in love the minute. I saw him on this thing about it is like the character that you saw mister Rogers neighborhood was usually very reserved very elegant. But very quiet, you know, and in real life friend saw should be running speaking at a church every Sunday. You know what I'm saying? Like that. If there was a church with a with a minister like Francois diva man Clements, I'd be in the front row every every week. You. Sure would sure when did you first find out he was gay? Shoot. I from the movie. No, no, no, no. I I go to the I'm one of those like people go on the forum boards, and I was like fr- officer Clemens. K why it was it was so shocking and part of it was like, you know, we the the private lives of these beloved child tell public television actors Bob McGrath Bob from Sesame Street has been speculated as gay for many years. He's not gay. Not least that we know of Maria of, you know, I think sesame Sesame Street, Gordon, you know, Livia mister Rogers, these are these are people for for my generation, we think of them as an extended family. I remember very clearly as a as a child. My mother would tell me, you know, you don't your grandparents died many years before you were born, and I always found that to. A very sad thing. And to the point that I would see Mr. Rogers on television thought he was my grandfather. And then he passed away. And I was watching you know, like a recording. Father telling me that I loved you. And and it your wonderful. And and you're, you know, special just the way you are. And that's that's a message that I always try to pass along to our listeners is that the you are valuable not because of the things that you do or the things you wear just by simply your human being potential to give love and receive love who you are is good enough, Alexandra billings says to a lot of actors and trans people, and it's it's true for everybody. You don't have to do anything that we keep thinking, I'll do it. When I'm in this state of mind. I mean be like this when I'm in the state of mind, but who you are as what's happening now for me growing up in Puerto Rico, my mother's side at her family is is you know, usually white people from Texas who relocated their children to Mexico, and they grew up in Mexico. So mother had a very deep. Affinity and appreciation for Mexican culture. And certainly was born and raised in Mexico. And then as a young woman, she moved to Puerto Rico to teach humanities where she met. My father was one of our students and they after the class was done. He got an a. After what? They started dating, and it was time for her to go back to the United States and said, please don't go stay and and marry me. And so they got married and had four children. And I was the next to last four children out of of zillion kids. My dad had. And so for me, it's it's always been, you know, as as a gay person, and there's a very non-conforming person growing up in Puerto Rico and traveling back and forth to Texas as a child and see my mother's family. I always felt very much like an outsider never really quite belong to any place, and even here living in Chicago people like your Chicago legend, you know. And I'm like, I always feel like I'm a tourist in Chicago too. You know, like, I always feel that my ability my contribution to the world is just to be able to see things from a from a different perspective than most people do able to sort of step back. And see a picture that. Normally, you can't see, you know, so one thing to to be in a in a crowd and experienced that crowd and another thing to have a bird's eye view and see that crowd. And I'm usually that bird that odd duck flying around and sort of being able to report back and let people to know how beautiful the world can be and how love is stronger than hate because of hate was stronger than love we wouldn't be here. We we would not be here. If it wasn't for our ability to connect to forgive each other to transcend so much talk city so much maligned meant so much malevolence. We are strong people. We are beautiful people the rainbow children hunting, we can come together and transcend things and I'm just very excited, but what the future holds know wasn't inspiration for. That 'cause I feel like you know, when you look back what Mr. Rogers did. And what they do that show is they change people's minds about a lot of things, and we need more of that energy in this world right now, you need to be the Mr. Rogers for other people. That's if I can leave anybody with a message of that from this show is is that, you know, and it doesn't have to mean you have to get into television play with puppets. But if that works for you or those profits, billions make him out of cardboard tubes. Recycle. If not, you know, it's it's about creating experiences where people to listen. I'm so blessed to have my wonderful husband. You sure are to that is such. You're not just a charismatic funny person. But also such a good listener. Thank you, the people. And I think listening is really important skill that, you know, it's hard for some people to do. And it's important listening is not just about paying attention also to it's, you know, it's Gary those neurons to fire sometimes it's hard for people. Yeah. Empathy compassion, and it's about understanding and repeating to somebody what they're saying to and making sure they understand that you're hearing them back. So it's not just sitting there going. Uh-huh. What? It's about aligning and understanding them and something that's not an easy thing to do. Because we don't get it trained to us. We don't usually have that type of training. We should it would be a great idea we had that in our school system. But right now, we're just surviving. And we need to thrive we need to grow. And fortunately, we have a lot of good people out there when you're feeling hopeless when you're feeling like things are despair. Remember there look for the helpers? That's what Mr. Rogers said, right? He said that just so that to him. Yeah. When when there was violence when there was bad things going around the world look for the helpers. And and that's what he said to people commenting on the events of September eleventh, which was shortly before he retired. And and you know, transcended to the great big public television station in the sky. It's an important message. Because anytime there is something. Horrible going on. It's you know, it's about looking who's helping who's who's coming up with solutions. It's it's exactly it's it's about using positively in not necessarily to ignore the problem. But to trust that together, we can solve things we can overcome him. See step, weather, baby. We have Mark. Thank you so much for doing this very special podcast with me. It's really been thrill to do all the sites and honor for me. I mean, I've been a big fan of mister Rogers and Francois Clemens officer Clemens for years. Yeah. I grew up watching most everybody my age and your age grew up watching Mr. Rogers and for you. What was that? I see the other side to it, you know, and to to know that behind this kind of reserved officer, who is remarkably talented also is just, you know, a very outgoing and flamboyant personality and a black man does not play with puppets. You know, it's it's very interesting perspective. Right. Yeah. I thought it was really fun to hear him say that I was like, you know, and that's the the great fig about that relationship that they had that they complemented each other. So does kind of like Burton Ernie? Right. It's it's like one was sort of the mischievous trickster and the other one was sort of like or anted about the rules and following procedure. And so it's it's how we complement each other. That makes the world a better place. And it's it's just yeah. Exactly. And it's a testament to diversity and integration and was diversity writer if you're working on a creative project get diverse voices involved. And it's something that we try AND DEFINITELY DO here. He's fund a we're always doesn't artists with a different perspective. And if you wanna come on the show pitches, a good story right to us mail feast of fund dot com or hit us up on social media. Where are on Twitter? Not. We're don't respond quick Twitter as we do on Facebook. But of course, fees fun on Facebook and YouTube and all those other channels were all on then it's Graham, even Honey we look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for listening. Bye bye are many way. Love you. Many way. Anywhere. There's this way. There's singing something someone really likes to. Singing. Singing. The singing. Love new. Leaning up a room can say, I love you. Hanging up your coat before your as do drawing special pictures for the holidays and making play. Fun. You'll find many ways to understand one.
Episode 1088 - Lily Tomlin
"Hey folks there's no I interior team but there is a spa in space. Set Forty years in the future when the solar system is the hottest Tourist Tourist Destination Avenue. Five is a new. Hbo Comedy that Takes Place on a luxury cruise ship. Traveling to the rings of Saturn created by veeps Armand IANNUCCI the series stars. Hugh Laurie Josh Gad. and Zach Woods avenue five premiers January nineteenth at ten pm only on HBO. How's that for you okay? Good what start the show. Big Show Lily Tomlin All right right. Let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking nears? What the fuck and noughts what's happening? I'm mark mayor and this is my podcast. Welcome to welcome New People. Welcome all big show today. Lily Tomlin's on the show Lily Tomlin. I've wanted to talk to you for a long time and I talk tears big day that I talked to her. It was a big day of talking to people and we got off on some Nice tangents and we got into some good information and we got had a couple of laughs. There's a very very. It was an honor to talk to a Lily Tomlin. I'll get to that in a minute. Let's talk about my tour. You WanNa Thursday. January thirtieth Cleveland Ohio at at the Agora Theatre. I'm telling you these dates again especially on these larger guests shows because this might be a folks you never know with me. If I'm going to hang up my laughing shoes in that. Is that a thing. Do you have laughing shoes laughing gloves and hang up my laugh. MITTS my hang up my laffy mittens Friday January thirty first I Grand Rapids Michigan at the Fountain Street Church Saturday February First Milwaukee Wisconsin at the Turner Hall Ballroom. Friday February Fourteenth Orlando Florida Arta. At hard rock live Saturday February. Fifteenth Tampa Florida at the Strasbourg is going to be a distress center. Thursday February Twentieth Portland Maine at the State Theater. Friday February Twenty First Providence Rhode Island Columbus theatre Saturday February twenty-second New Haven Connecticut at College Street. Music Call Paul and Sunday February Twenty Third Huntington New York at the paramount. Go to W. T. F. pod dot com slash tour for links to all the venues. I'm definitely going to need my laugh. Mittens for these shows. Some of them del Ray is going to be opening for me at all of them. Delray has covered even more territory tonight. I think Delaware has been to some of these markets already. So you get to see Delray twice if you're delray fan and Marc Maron fan or perhaps you just coming to see del Rey. I don't care what Oh you do. I'll have my laugh mittens on be ready to go my funny long. Johns my hilarious. Read Union suit with the button-down but the thing so you can poop out of it. Well trap door in the back. Maybe I got one of those used to have on those. You know when you look back at the clothing you've had. We're those pants am I right am I. Where's my union suit? What happened that? Read Union suit. I had used to Boston and Maine used to wear it back in the day. Ah Sweaters Big Cardigan sweaters are they cardigans pullovers. I'd be like what happened. Those wool pants. I some amazing sort of. I think they were Danish. Military issue will pants that I wore with suspenders. Thick wool. Big Old boots back in the Boston days. Where's where's my overcoat? WHO's wearing my clothes from back? Then who's got my stuff. I had a couple of pairs of wool pants. I was a suspender guy for a minute. Not In the real way in sort of a clown way but anyways enough about that. I'M GONNA be in Georgia this week. I think this is. The last is big chunk of stuff. I'm doing for the Retha Franklin film respect so I'll be down there. Maybe I'll do some sets down there. Some surprise irs. I'll let you know if you care. Sure I will tell you on instagram. I believe is how I'll do it. And maybe twitter. Okay so I got a beautiful a painting from fan a woman or women who listens to the show painter named Paulin Nelson of Lafond does head. And it's so beautiful. It's such a nice piece of of tribute. It made me very excited. So I have a painting of My my my cat La Fonda that passed away recently. Most you know and I thank Paula for that a lot. Someone told me she might be the painter of the things that that for trader. Joe's I don't know what that means but But it's a lovely painting and and she does. She does Nice work her. I think I ever instagram. I think it is at wo-. who a a lower Dash Nelson. Is that what you call that lower dash lower slash lower not a swastika. Amount of fucking you know the underlying thing so yeah that was very nice. Thank you thank you. Thank you Paula. I appreciate that. It's twenty twenty people time to start fresh and simplify the way you do. Businesses Year with Capterra Capterra is the free online resource that millions use monthly to find the best software solution for their business. Searching compare software. Get Free Guides in tools. Read tips for your industry and much more capterra helps your business thrive by making the software buying process as easy and effective as possible with more than one million reviews from real software users. Discover everything you need to make an informed decision search more than seven hundred specific categories of software filter options by features pricing and more and then compare software side by side. Maybe you're like me and you have no idea idea what types of software out there for different things that's me that's why Capterra is great. If you need software for balancing your books you just type accounting into the search bar and it will give you all the results with all the research already done visit. CAPTERRA DOT com slash W. T. F. for free today to find the tools to make an informed software decision decision for your business. Capterra C. A. P. T. E. R. R. A. dot com slash WTO capterra software selection. Simplified lied so as I went to a thing I was invited to a thing and I and I went to thing. She's a film director was the film thing and I think I primarily went to because I thought she would enjoy it and I believe we did and I didn't know about the movie. Here's getting that this guy I know he's he's a fan of mine he's and he's also an artist in his own right in a lot of ways Peter Kann. He's in the ban negative land but he's also a film archivist lightest any invites me to a lot of things and he sends me records and stuff and I've not You know I've gone like sometimes in the bay area will be like go over to my basement and see a pristine print of Klute and I'll be like I don't know Peter I don't know I don't think I do but it's time thing but anyways he had. Ah a big part of an in the restoration of this film which I knew nothing about it. It's called Spring nights summer night. The director is J L Anderson. It's it's in this program over there at UCLA. Fill the film and Television Archive. Okay they got a program going over there. It's American neo realism now. Look I'm no dummy. I'm half an intellectual. I studied film in college but had been a long time since I went to an event went to see a film that was specifically in the context of not just archiving but you know a series of a certain type of film and also so like it was a film nerd event in a lot of ways. But it's also a film art thing it's It's it's sort of found piece of film in a way a found feature. It's your film that has been salvaged from obscurity. And it's been a long time since I've done that. You know when you're in college you do that Shit you gotta we gotTa see this movie. We know we're going to get a lecture on the movie and You appreciate it and that look. I've got the tools you know. I mean the film was sort of. The story was kind of stunning and dark. It takes place in rural Ohio Southeastern Ohio. It's almost a Falk Narian tale of Of A family. But it's like later. I mean I think it's from nine hundred sixty seven mm-hmm but it was beautiful and there was a life to live Talapity to it and this new print that Peter worked on it's a digital print and it's the first time I think the film has been shown in its entirety hired he. Maybe I don't know if it's ever but when it's gone through quite a history. Apparently it was released with some other footage added to make a little more sorted for the driving crowd crowd and this is the way that the director wanted. But I don't I don't do that kind of stuff and the guy who presented it to the people at the Ucla Film Archive you know. One Guy introduced the the other guy who had a long beard. This is a fourteen year project bringing this into the theater. Everyone's very excited WHO's there was a pretty packed house and you know it was sort would've stunning and I'd forgotten what it's like to just take that stuff in but like to go and see an event in here people speak on the the sort of revelation of the movie and the construction another movie in the archiving and and bringing back to life of the movie was sort of fascinating? The guy one of the guys had a remarkable beard. Just a great beard and this is their life. If man you know this is their life is like archiving movies you have pulling them out of obscurity or or or to decomposing and so they don't just disappear ear forever and I don't know I. I think there was a time where I and I've talked about this before when it comes to art and context and we're talking about you know the the the program is American neo realism. No matter what I know about movies or what I can talk about how I can talk about it. I'm no fucking deep film nerd. I'm no film academic. I'm no film fucking intellectual. I know what I know and I know enough to watch it properly. But there's always been this feeling that when anything is is sort creative revisited by academia or written about in a certain context or put under the umbrella of American neo realism at a certain point in history. I know Italian Neo your realism. I've seen Rome open city. I know I know things but like I automatically think that no matter whatever experience I have watching the film that it's like a missing something. What am I missing? And I think the breakthrough I had maybe last night or recently is that I didn't miss anything that you know you take it in. It's not there to solve solve all your problems. You can blow you away could change the configuration of your synapses but it could also just be like I get it and you know it was really amazing for these reasons and and I can appreciate that and I understand what the context is and why it's there and it definitely was something that changed the way I look at something I guess. Ah I've given myself a break and I think I'm going to see more stuff now in this sort of ties in with Lily Tomlin because I watched all of Nashville before I talk Orion seen that film in Awhile and forgotten how it ended and I'd seen it two or three times and that's a film from nineteen probably seventy five and Willie Tomlin his genius in it. She's like it's a straight up acting GIG and it's fucking unbelievable and the whole movie. Movie is sort of unbelievable. The CAST is insane. Ned Beatty Ronnie Blakely Keith. Carradine Geraldine Henry Gibson. Michael Murphy Lily. Tomlin Jeff Goldblum. has this weird part in it. That's pretty great. I believe Lily Tomlin was nominated for an Oscar for her work in in In in the in the film. And it's definitely a sort of a masterpiece of a sort as are many of altman's films one of my favorite movies McCabe and Mrs Miller and it's a whole different pace a whole different group. has its own context. Altman is his own world. They're definitely sort of art movies but sort of lyrical and and Well populated and well-financed movies Unlike the kind of independent nature of the film I saw last night made in nineteen sixty seven on a fairly early shoestring budget in black and white. That's the other thing you earn is relatively independent. Cinema has been around a long time. And there's a lot of gems out there but Nashville Asheville was great to watch it. It's a it's a weird dark movie as are many of the Altman films and Louis. Tom was also amazing in shortcuts. She was coupled with Tom Waits. It was one of the beautiful relationships that movie anyways from laughing from one person shows nine to five. I'm giving her a a big buildup as if she's going to walk in here. It was an honor to talk to this woman. I've been waiting to do it for a long time. So this is me talking to lily. Tomlin who who is On Grayson Frankie. which premiers on Netflix? This Wednesday January fifteenth. That is the the new season I talked to her. Co Star Jane Fonda. Maybe I'll get the other ones anyways me and Willie Right now listen Very excited you're here we taking vitamins. What are you got a load of stuff from my alternative Dr? The alternative Dr is is it does have a degree altern absolutely. It's an MD biochemist really. So and then he has an MD.. And it's like nutrition based kind of deal. Yeah with your blood and all that right defined defined I'll feel a bit different nothing right and I must take about fifty a day and nothing. You'll feel any different. Why did you want to about twenty minutes with the bills? That's a lot do you know what's in a well. How Pretty I know what the formula is? Yeah but I don't know okay. I couldn't make myself what what What what what made you go get settlements? 'cause I stopped taking supplements. Oh did you probably smart. You know I'm trying to squeeze one last year Grayson Frankie and you were tired or no. No I told you I don't feel any differently. I know but so mike why go why go to the guy. Well it becomes habitual. Oh right right. And he's he's a good guy he's very smart even going there a long time but I have a regular doctor too. That's good. Go to the hippy doctor. He's not a hippy. Doctor could be construed as that. I know I know I'm being condescending. I think it's I can give you a misguided misguided. I stopped taking turmeric because because I was told that does nothing by several nutritionists. I'm sure are you can't even get it to absorb into your body that's right. That's what the problem is but we people tried to. I don't take turmeric. It's one thing. Apparently I've got quite a big stash Asha when I ordered a supply you did buy once. Oh yes of course a liquid form. Oh that must be better. Yeah Italy you don't take it anymore. No I've got too much to take okay all right so I was watching. I never know like yeah I I don't know what to Sometimes they'll I don't know where to start so I actually watched most of Nashville last night. You Yeah I haven't seen it in years and it's so good good. It's so good and then I watched an old carson from the Seventy S I think an old Johnny Carson appearance on me of me beyond the show. Yeah and both of those things made me realize just how time work differently than we all had much more time and things just kind of spread out and had a natural pace to for them and human like you know you're on Carson for I mean the segment was weak- half hour. No no but you know I mean people do they say anything. You're talking yes it was a it was an appearance where you were talking about your childhood and starting it was a story about about. You're talking about growing up in the basement apartment and the neighbor who lived upstairs. who used to come down for dinner? Oh yes you remember. Mrs Spear Mrs Spear 'cause he was asking you about how you started to be a performer. And he assumed it was one. You've got I laugh but it was actually more connected to you. Know Your father. Yeah that because you told Mrs Fear What Your father was thinking you remember that story. Oh yes I do very well I remember standing at the foot of the stairs is in this spirit Mrs Spiro piece of my father's mind That was the that was the whole issue that use annoying. You're dead and of course my dad. My mother would be horrified and and she immediately. I called Mrs Spear Into Supper the next night in every night after that and treated her like the finest guest in the world and my father was tickled to death. When I did it so I I I got that sense of being a little outrageous and audacious as is being funny the winning side of something you may impact the old man anyway with the Oh man it sure did so this this was in Detroit what you were born there? Yes wow so but my parents are from Kentucky from their southern Oh and they they evacuated waited. They went north to work. Yeah what got bad down there in the south they just were well. My Dad was a Kinda guy. He just going to be a farmer right so he went to Detroit for To the big city to play the horses and gambling man yeah but he worked very religiously he was a hard worker. What did you do what he was as a job center at a factory job setter? Yeah I don't know what that means. That means somebody who can He can't really read. Plans can put a machine gene together to produce. Whatever the part is that they need? Oh okay so. It's kind of intuitive gifts that he had the you could. Could you break down an engine gin and that kind of business. I don't know what your mom do. She was a nurse's aid Working with sick people with the baby she worked with the babies. Oh Yeah She loved that and brothers and sisters. My brother he yeah he lives in Nashville. He's a painter really. He's a painter and he builds furniture richer and yeah he's just artistic abstract realistic sort of whimsical. Oh yeah and he still any. He sells his paintings. Yes yes he said to me the other day in four years I'll be eighty. Yeah he can't believe I can't believe it either. I think he's maybe sixteen really. He's just got the personality of that. Oh yeah I mean and he. I just can't believe it. My precious brother is going to be eighty and I'm already eighty. I said I'm I'm already eighty so. Do you feel different. No I feel nothing different. Yeah my mother's same way. She's like I don't understand. I don't feel any different inside. I guess it doesn't yeah I thought maybe it would have something to do with kids or whatever but no I guess you don't really change inside I guess not. How many kids did she have? Just me and my brother and I don't think she really locked into that for a long time but I think she notices now. My mother was a real homemaker. She loves to she when she was lying in bed osteoperosis very badly at the end of her life. She said Oh I just. I'm lying in here. Just thinking about Kassir fathered a prosperous farmer in Kentucky. Yeah and She sent her and he had wanted his last two girls to go to college right and my mother was one of them and she said I give anything to be a home teacher. Oh that's what she wanted. Her dying wishes so dear Nothing pleased my mother more than a new canister set cook and stuff. Oh yeah cakes. Yeah everything she made. She had a very a special gumdrops cake. Really with was gumdrops. Draw inside and on top. Was it good or yeah. It was good. Were you always in the basement apartment growing up now. We moved up to the second floor and I was about ten or twelve fame building. Yes Oh that's nice literally. We moved up in the world. We did we did indeed and when you were growing up was were you into watching the theater or comics or anything like that. Well I didn't no I didn't have the experience of theatre my family. I went to the movies a lot. Yeah but I I worked. I took ballet and and tap at the Department of Parks and recreation across the street from our apartment houses because that we live in a sort of wild neighborhood. Oh yeah nothing terribly bad. Certainly nothing compared to today But there's a lot going on the street going on and it was rough. Yeah you know you could. You don't realize how rough it is. Yeah Yeah and I took ballet and tap over there. Because they had a lot of programs was to keep kids off the street right. Yeah and I was over there for about ten years from five to fifteen doing dancing dancing and doing comedy and I I mean I would do. I would make up characters to do. We have a variety show every Friday. Oh every Friday. Yeah in the summer yeah not in the winter. Yeah right right. Yeah so you didn't have to trek through the snow but so you were doing characters at like age. Ten twelve thirteen. Yeah easily you've brought up on Carson in that in whenever that was the seventies about a woman who lived in the building that was older than you but like you were friends with her like there were a couple of those but I was a kind of kid who just had an an adult way about me right. And so I- Betty Betty Turkey and and Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy lafont. They were like about twenty five and I was ten. Yeah but and they were like the Glamour. You inciting girls like Betty's boyfriend slept over. That was really hot. Stuff and Betty and Jimmy was married and she and her husband every time they would have sex they put a bean in the jar and then it took them three years to the beans out in one year. They put so many beans in the jar and then after that first year they took three years to get the beans out. Oh my God it would tell me stuff like that when you were ten. Yeah that was interesting to me. You need those people sort of open. Open your brain up to the bigger world and Jimmy was very well-spoken and betty was very flamboyant and Baba a real big figure and she was hot stuff and this is my fifties. Oh yeah well the very beginning of the fifty. Since I was born in thirty nine right I I was ten by the time I in nineteen forty one thousand nine hundred fifty now when you when you think about it like you know seeing how everything's changed over it you know like the Ark of like what happened happen culturally. It's gotTa be mind blowing in the do you. I was trying to think when I talked to try to figure it out. I can't figure it out in terms of what which part what does what what. How does it make sense? Is it not look at today with this whole thing for Indus and around. Yeah you just you think and then you've got someone like trump in the White House you just can't put it all together. It's it's an even with so much more information and makes it more confusing. But I mean you live through Nixon. You live through like that I. I would imagine Agean that in terms of just a fear in the streets the the sixties was horrendous. Maybe we know so much more now. Maybe that's it maybe we're we're culture rated So that you know true I mean a Nixon the bombing Bodey and everything else that went on and and You think you think trump is ten times worse than Nixon but in a way it's sort of like it's only because we kind of no more yet. How's it happening happening again? And you know and and now we're so much more distracted. I I just I dealing with fears the hardest thing for me the fear part. I am more for more for its more anxiousness for me. I guess that's what it is. Yeah because you do feel ultimately powerless when things when I mean usually things are going on that we don't know about but when you really start to think about it you're like I can't do anything. What can what can I do? And what can especially with the climate. Oh there's no no recourse nothing nothing. Nothing is on fire. Yeah and I have friends in Australia. And they said it's just grim really weighed. Ah In like in Sydney. Or they're they're in the you know camera right now but they used to live in Burma gooey just idyllic and it's Guy I went up. It's it's all evacuated. If very well could burn of no sense of what's happening there the scale of it but seems pretty fucking off. Yeah it's like ten times worse than what we've seen in California fires ten times. Bigger and sports is suddenly strike Australia. I saw on the beach. Austrailia Australia was far away and relax. Go right right. Yeah Yeah. Nothing's GonNa Happen Australia. Say terrible but I mean like I guess your parents. It's probably with through the depression. Had that mentality. I guess things change but the climate does seem like the last frontier. Yeah does it is. It is is far as I can figure it out but going back before we get into a volunteer a whole of despair despairs part of the anxious it is it is is it except in a certain way I I I get in the morning I get up and seeing what's happening and then then we kind of go about our day. You're doing your show. What else can you do? I came here. Yeah I said that on stage last night when I it was like this could be the eve of World War three three. And you know there's all this stuff going on we have to get up and live our lives. Yeah which is that sort of GNAWING anxiousness when everybody has it. It will allay that fear anxiousness for awhile. I mean you get absorbed in what you're doing. You're maybe you love what you're doing and sure but when you were in it's like growing up in when did you start to 'CAUSE I I do stand up. Did you do standup. I know and I'm not really a classic stand. I've I've always done characters right and I talk in between or something and there's a certain amount of standup but not like John Joke. Yeah yeah hard hitting stand end up but you are always aware of that. The like you categorize yourself is not a traditional standup. Yeah Yeah 'cause why because I did characters right and You shared the stage with stand ups at different times right. I mean you'd go on at clubs right no. I didn't go on too many club. Never Oh you know I I did but I didn't really because you didn't come up. I needed time to establish character or I if I was GONNA do a monologue analog have five or six or eight or ten minutes drive the monologue. We've not every audience is going to sit around for that but it's true they want boom boom boom again like you know watching Carson and also watching Nashville and and sort of the pace of things then was a little different. It seems like people were a little more patient and my. We're projecting. Well they might be patient. I don't know it depends on who the person is. I mean if they know you they might be a little more patient right but if you're just starting out and they don't know you they're you're not going to be Ho Ho totally unless you're totally mesmerizing. Or you're doing something so why I've never seen the likes of this. Were you that I was kind of that way. I wasn't the first character. Sure I was greatly influenced by Ruth Draper. The I don't know who is who died in and fifty six and she was in her seventies and I came to I discovered her when I was about eighteen in Detroit. On on the written word You know whatever that album is called. I Ruth Draper's her name and she said Yeah that's right. I can understand that it's crazy. I feel like I feel stupid. I I most people would know her. She has a record though she she was recorded. Yes because the guy who reported who recorded her Charles Bowden. He became a good friend of mine. Because when he first saw my first Broadway show he wrote me a letter and he said you make me think of Ruth Draper and of course that was the most the head he said to me which was totally far fetched. But was she. How how? How did you she was from Boston? She was from fairly well did. Did you family her father. Her brother was Paul Draper. The dancer blacklisted. She was a comedic performer. Well not totally but very funny. Yeah she would do character characters and she would do Broadway shows. Oh she would appear on Broadway every few years and she toured the world and she would get up in a place in Scotland. Stand on the table and do her monologue slab and this is your first big influence as well. Yeah and the new aspire to who it I had other influences. Yeah you know I really like when you were before you started when I was a kid and we first got it. We didn't get a TV. Till I was ten. Yeah and then my father got no months. TV and they never sent him the payment book and he just gloated on that for years. Free TV But I saw other neighbors. TV's occasionally you know. But I listen to the radio a lot I love Beulah. Yeah the the maid. Yeah and she was always muttering some mutiny under her breath you know she'd be saying like ab her. Her white employer caller upstairs downstairs upstairs. Downpour the trudging up the stairs out of breath and tired and and chasing a beautiful. I need you up here at once. Okay I'll be right along long. You know downstairs at once. I need to see you immediately. I like to take their supper and give it to the percents. Your said I'd I say the fire is getting low. I Better Log Shiv crash up at that was totally divine so that okay. So that was on the radio. Oh so you you liked people that did you know funny characters and had a little. I had but I empathize with them. Just sure I totally totally got them. And when did you first put. You're putting your stuff to paper. Well I did. The first. The first character I did was in showing College College I mean that I did like for real audience right and it was a scholarship show to meet Ray scholarship money and along to do about getting there and everything what to college or two. That's about true the getting getting into this show. They say I had done a show on the big stage where I played a walk on in the Madwoman of show and school. Yeah for the university and I had had to lead. Improvisation of the the capitalist women down the staircase being cast into the the mad woman's seller and so and I would just carry on every night you know and all the kids who drama majors they would they would just run run out to the stage to see what I was GonNa do revising. Jesus is so much fun and I were scoring. Who Lived in Detroit? I I've tried tried to. I tried to reach her a hundred times because Irish she sort of looked like Barbara streisand at the time and she would look at me so intently and she'd say do you realize what kind of concentration you have. I know she was a student drama. Major Okay I had no idea. She was impressed with you very impressed by concentration release so that was your that. That's how yes I did that but then I got into this scholarship show where it was Funny whether you're doing funny stuff and and so I had like by I'd I'd bombed out on everything because it was just terrible material as a as a player in the they gave me all mm female parts surreptitiously. They took them away. I want because I couldn't sell it. I mean who's going to say like play Miss Kitty and say you you know. Poor poor met whatever his name is a cup of coffee and real beans fallout right. Okay and they say goods of the last being I. We're not GONNA do it do it. Just didn't make sense. I couldn't sell it and so gradually I had no I two parts left and and were you should have one party drama. I was studying. I was can premed. Oh God that was another fantasy. How'd that go Um Well I didn't finish so it didn't go anywhere. Yeah no no no decision on the Finish College. No I didn't finish. I got it and I got into this show and I was had been humiliated humiliated humiliated and I have one last thing to do. And it was the take off in the Academy Awards awards and I pretended I was living right. Like trying to reassure cards and I would just say things like academia and you know here at the academia. We're just right right and that was getting big laughs. And then I was kind of Boyd and renewed and so then the takes the after. CERT- another story here playing. How low I gone okay There was a girl in the show Which one which this this view the review and she was like five ten and she had blond hair and she hung over one eye and she wore French cut? Electric Blue Tights with your achieve. Your Butt Cheeks are showing through the tight the Leotard is cut way up. It's like a like wearing a underpants called Thong kind of like that high heels on a lot of jewelry right she she was something yes and she was leaning against the piano with her. Your long legs now. She became a good friend of mine. Later I'm not using her name out. And so she. And I was mumbling my my Kademi awards speech or on aside like real pitiful and she swung around like that in her hair ripple ripple ripple and a clairol ad and she's and she said what did you say she hadn't said not a word to me in weeks and I said I I was just staggered depths and she said well if you can't be direct back twice and that was the last thing that I needed and I went out. That's why he went out there and ad-lib that piece so I like these passing bits of the way the character I did. I did the old tasteful lady that I did. I'm laughing eventually and I'd never really done her as a character. It's just that I my mother's maiden name was Ford. Yeah and so we choose to read all about the fords and the society page and Charlotte forward with my age and she was making in her debut party at that time and was reputed to cost five hundred thousand dollars and my I borrowed a car and taken my mother on a a tour around the rose point is state so she could see the twinkle lights and canopies and the car was tied on the driver's side with a rope. Nope we are barred and this all this stuff intertwines because my life was mm free okay. And so when years later when Kathy king who was a cheerleader. I gotta run the Cheer Team at Cass Tech. which is my high school and so she had and she was married to Henry Ford she resists third wife really yeah and so she had all audio cheerleaders over at their big house? You know and she called my mom on the phone and she said Mrs Tomlin you can come in the front door now. So that was. It was a lovely moment. Yeah okay so that's still not the story. The story is I. Did Grosse Pointe Matron. Yeah okay as the character as a character and I talked about my my charitable activities and my social work my social activities and all that stuff and then I get up and bid their audience very tasteful and and we knew that Grosse Point had been designated a segregated unlawfully a segregated community. Yeah so that sorta played on and off so I could just ad Lib around that character and I had a young guy that I was friendly with. He interviewed me like he had a show called distinguished guests and then when I got up I have my my my dress. I didn't flash or anything my decorous length but I you know I come woman middle. She might get up and push yourself up off her her put her palms down near her knees. Push yourself all right in a very high hilarity in one thousand nine hundred sixty sixty two but you kill the degrade Yeldham because it was the only thing that was relevant that was in the show right and it was I it went on all the TV shows and get it of that. That character you became the tasteful eighty. Yeah Yeah when did this take place before he did the. Where was this? Show the one you just told sixty to Wayne State University. Okay Okay and then after that you quit you quit school yeah went. I certainly finished midterms I into New York. Yeah I thought well Jeez. I'm going to become an actress or something. Yeah what's the way me that these two passing people that you knew the one that looked like Barbara streisand. Who said what did she say you? You know what kind of concentration you have the the one who said if you can't be direct why the yeah. Those were pretty important. They were very important. It's weird how just what I went to New York and we you know we were friends for many years use mattress. Yet actress. She was that was her desire. And didn't it didn't come to pass Not so much So when you got to New York what what was what was the would you do. Well I I liked you know. I'd like to kind of Bohemian Life. I didn't mind it at all. Those girls were kind of disappointed if they were like living in the lower east side. Or something you know I started or did you star in the lower east side. Yeah well I I started on fifths. Well I started on second avenue over the B Ian h dairy. Do you know that the second avenue and like Seven Street Hey. Yeah yeah and I went in there Gary Restaurant What Restaurant Jerry which is still there it is and I had a girlfriend. She wasn't really a girlfriend. She was kind of an acquaintance. I knew she lived in in New York so I had called her when I went and I had total holly golightly damage. I used to wear my hair put you know. I didn't have big abundant here right but what ahead I would pull up and I put it in. And then I would spread it out like a ponytail on top of my head and I spread the ponytail out and pin it down with hairpins right. It had a nice nefer. Td Profile Slavic took some time to put that. I've seen photographs and you wouldn't have guessed. I spent a lot of time but anyway so I got a white or cream colored trenchcoat thrift shop. And a couple of items. It's like that for my and I got a nineteen dollars. One way trip on Continental Airlines. Who Flew Yeah Nineteen Bucks Detroit New York Detroit to New New York eighteen dollars right on a prop plane non-scheduled continental proper? Yeah that's exciting. Later had became friends with Audrey Meadows. Who was married you too Bob six? who was president of Konin? And all it's just a few metres from the honeymooners. Yeah yeah she was funny Oh she was. She was one of my specials shows. Yeah but like how did you get started doing what you wanted to do. And I I got there. I got fifteen dollars left and right by five dollars from nine friends forty five dollars. I bought the trench coat and extra hair parents for up there and so I had fifteen dollars collar swift and I was going to get a job as a waitress at the Figaro. Okay which was like about as cool as you right up right. Yeah over in the village West. Yes so I went and of course. The guy had a list of girls this long to be waitresses and all I had was a burlap skirt. I had one little checkered suit With a Bolero jacket kind of you know. I had one pair of high heels because we're GONNA win. Their Figaro thing fell through and I knew that that night and I spent the fifteen dollars on dinner I went back home. I bought a New York Times on Saturday night late. It and I look in the newspaper and wrote down. All the typhus jobs assistant bookkeeping jobs. Think types this jobs are terrible at forty five dollars a week but assistant bookkeeper's like eighty five type. Oh Yeah I could type. I took typing any good girl. I took typing at my age but I had also worked as an assistant bookkeeper. Yeah in Detroit right so you got. I could post a ledger right. So that's a needed skill. And that's the Gig you got so I stopped at all the places and they were horribly button factories and all that stuff six thirty I get up in the fifties mid on Fifth Avenue and I go to BMI management's management engine company yes. I had no idea when I took the phone number out of the paper. And it says Captain Kangaroo Dick Clark productions and all like that so I and I got that job just like that. So you're in. I'm yeah I'm in show business job. I didn't even know I was really kind of the office. Flunky they were. We're three other women in the office. Gory was the bookkeeper and I had to assist her And if you're assisting someone you know too much and what years this sixty two. Wow how getting to be like almost summer. So but your how long did it take. You realize that you're in the center of show business. I saw it as soon as I saw the door I knew. Captain Kangaroo around didn't say Captain K said Charles Kitchen. I didn't realize that was captain kangaroo. But I couldn't understand Dick Clark. Yeah this but they also handled all the newscasters. Yeah I mean ninety percent of the top newscasters so nicer read all the alimony checks rex. Oh really had to get them out on Friday night. Sometimes I failed to do it. Forget I so glad to get rid of the place because Rita and Florence. who were there secretaries were so great? And I've met I've seen Florence says since she's come to my show a couple times but like I would pora They had a you know a cooler and someone would dump soup and any receptacle there and I do it. I wouldn't dare you know audrain here Rita say come here. I couldn't understand them the from the Bronx. Yeah I said what she said. Look this who did. This must have done this. No I didn't do that. Re Clean it up. I have to go and get. Aw for different things creams change of Brassiere. Do this on my lunch hour. And there's nothing worse than walking around in New York City in in the summer of sixty two to the no the hot. Forget that but the construction workers are there wagging their tongues that you owe and and just on and on it was just unbearable. When did somebody notice you performing? When did you start to get the do the performing well in New York my friend Louis Louis Saint Louis who had several credits? He was the musical director and he wrote songs. He performed himself but he and his partner. We're going to perform at the bitter end. And he got me on the bill as a co two so I kind of through stuff together that I had had this was the first show at the other end. Yeah bits and pieces characteristics and pieces. How many of those characters stayed with you for a lifetime? One of them for sure. The world's oldest living beauty expert. She's really where'd would you do her. And she knew her I've just done her in my act. I've never done around Tele television you as a guest on something done it right right. Oh I went to. I went to my school I you yeah because being an actress was like you know in downtown it was considered too narcissistic and and men were the only creators. Anyway you know women road the joints had babies. I didn't I wasn't cut out. Yeah but I was sort afraid to stand up and say I'm an actor so I was going to study mine. That's more acceptable. Where'd you study mine at with William Curtis the American American mind theon. I lasted three weeks. It was just too arduous burst so little reward couldn't get anything out of them you know because the other kids were so gifted yeah they could tumble across the room. Yeah do the most incredible falls and spills goals and come up and do it. Yeah not your bag. No although I'm good physically. What the my the three weeks of I am school? Did it help you at all natural mime. Anyway you know. Sure gotten a mime. Show no see. I remember what year that was. That was sixty five. You were in a mime show at the astor place playhouse. When did the break happen? While the real break didn't happen until I went on the MERV Griffin and show from New York. Yeah the upstairs downstairs in sixty six. Rosetta that was on fifty fifty fifth and on the side street off of Fifth Avenue Club. Yeah Yeah they had a review upstairs room cavalry and Mabel. Mercer was in the downstairs room. Yeah and I was just mad for Mercer Lewis and I had. We used to walk up to the most Soi. We have just a quarter for the coach. 'cause you have stand sixty deep at the bar. You're never even have to buy a drink. Yeah because we adored Mabel okay so maybe was falling out of favour not doing Business Joe. Joan had become very popular uh-huh Carson and she took over that room in the downstairs and Mabel was just there on Mondays Tuesdays or Wednesdays or something and I so I said to IRV Haber I was in the re review upstairs and I'd Gotten A. I've gotten a review from Vince can be in the New York Times he was nightclub critic then re before filmed. Yeah uh-huh and I did the makeup lady. That was my main monologue in that. Show the character I we did. It stood out because it was different from than the review. Beauty tip person tha- yeah yeah so He said it's as if Beatrice LILLIE IN DRACULA'S DRACULA's daughter come into some kind of lunar conjunction and that puts you on the man that was eye catching. That's not sure so. It didn't didn't put me on the map so much. I guess it did in one way or another but you so you saw joan. They're downstairs early on doing her. Yeah she was already famous though anti-syrian congratulations. Yeah absolutely. Yeah I used to stand in the stairwell enlisted tour. She was so funny outrageous rea- yeah even then from the beginning getting all. Yes so when did you do merv Griffin so. Oh so I took that review around. I took it to a an agent Gloria Sapphire Saphire Who is Sort of friendly with some people. I kind of peripherally knew and she sent me over to Griffin. Yeah she said. She sent me to Paul Cy. I can't think of his name I know he's around or he would be around. Yeah Paul has his first name but he was the first one that really locked into me and put me on the show a MERV. Yeah I was in New York at that time. Yeah I'll end. The daytime. People were was my douglas to Mike. Douglas I did him later when he was in Philadelphia Philadelphia. So you do MERV. I'd humor. I started doing merv kind of sort of maybe once every month or every two and by the tennis cope. Yeah But I I am I. I did the world's leading expert on Murph show and and hermine again gold guests the other guest show and so I was a little nervous about doing lupe. Madame Lupe go over well. Oh yeah went over very well. What happens she rejuvenates her face and then she sneezes off falls down again then I then I went back to the I said I would go back to the upstairs if I could do. One of my own on monologues. Right show yeah kind of review. Yeah yeah so I I went back and sixty eight. I did a commercial too so I made money money on a Vicks vapor rub commercialize with the with the little waves coming up the ones where you rub it and then well I. I don't think they'd quite hit a hit on those graphics yet animated graphics. It was more like I would be like a housewife. You know doing the dishes. I hear my husband's sneezing. The living and running running get the Vicks Vapor Rub rip assured off and put it on his chest. Thank God so I got to California. Yeah because woman. Her sat her husband has been was in the review and She was going to populate a show on. ABC called music scene and she picked me to go along with David. Steinberg researcher client. I didn't want to go to California. Wanted to be in New York actor right. I want to be on television. I I just wanted to. I didn't want a manager. You just want to do what cabaret shows no. I thought I would get I did audition for some Broadway show and I must have been unbelievably off the wall. I don't know what idea. Yeah because a kidman right. I'd make friends with the agents assistant. He say what did you do that. And and you see what do you mean what did I do. And I'd be real defensive about it and I'd say I I get off a couple Eh. Curse word yet. She wanted to be a stage actress. You I thought I should be. I can go to the clubs and always do a little monologue stuff if we want to do bigger for the fun of it. I wanted to be a serious actor right but you get dragged out to California and for the for the people volt beyond music scene music scene man. Yeah Sixty I picked you and at the same time an offer came in to go on laugh in from George from George they see the beginning of. He said that he saw me in sixty six. When I was on the Garry Moore show? That's for Carol. Burnett was discovered. Oh Oh wow so. I'm sure he looked at me a few years later and thought. Here's my carole go. Yeah he bites on that. Well I didn't go on life until mid season because I thought well laughing's everyone's a star who's going to be on laughing and music scene was like a hip new show headed tie in with billboard the well what was what did you do on that. We were like a little comedy. David Steinberg was lead and there were two or three other. And we're like a little comedy to interstitial bits. Yeah an intro song all that stuff so but laughing when so you go midseason and laugh in nineteen sixty nine he s I appeared on laugh in for the first time in December twenty ninth nineteen. sixty-nine like shorter. Oh I love him yeah he sees you guys still talk. Oh yes yeah. which is his birthday was it? How's he ninety? Wow how's he holding up stewing. Good I talked to him a couple of years ago. The I interviewed him but I think the really the entire interview is him trying to get me to do a new laughing with him. Probably yeah this is it. This is the time with with the world. Needs it right now. We did do a fifty anniversary. I know I saw it was growing. Net Flex is great. Yeah it was fun right. Yeah Oh yeah scrape fund. So did that so when you did laugh after you moved out here and that was the job already living here so I I stayed here okay and that was the job that's right. I had my. I had a sixty nine firebird back in New York. Your can they had it brought out to California what she still had it. Yeah had a himmy engineer. Not Very tough. Yeah And they use they use the they said every my makeup artist. Just today we used to say comes Tomlin in that bomber or whatever. Yeah and I I it seems to me laugh and most have been just a blast. It was like it just looked well. It was just phenomenal because it was because literally that first night I aired as Ernestine. Yeah it was just a huge people. People were stopping me on the street. The next morning they were. They stopped their cars when I was back in. La they would stop their cars at a light and jump bowed to the pit. Yeah just you know really excited about that. Seeing that character we had it. So there's so many characters on there that like I must have happened with all the care. Yeah I'm thinking I'm point like it must have happened with What's her name Ruth and it happened with who well the old German soldiers did the old guy? I'm here after leaving here after him here after. Yeah and then you did in the Edith van. Carol triggers the next year. Yeah I went on the road with Dan and Dick when they when we wrapped wrapped at the end of the season at mid. I mean from the mid season to the summer yeah and and they would They would introduce me and they. I would say. This girl walked out and sat down at the switchboard and the crowd would just. It was just like I was crazy. Yeah you're rockstar he's a Rockstar for about a minute. Then you did the record. And what seventy one or seventy two run like. That won a Grammy Award. And that was MS must made a lot of money that record. I guess I didn't see it. Know what the WHO did the label. No I don't know I don't remember getting a lot of money from it. Yeah but I mean but certainly you sort of I think it seems like you redefined. What what comedy was at that time that the characters became because they were pointing to stand ups around? You know but no one was doing exactly that what you were doing with all the Disney characters they would be content phone day. Would people loved them so when did when did you start working with Altman well my partner. Jane when did you meet Jane and Seventy one of so. That's big year. Did the record or D. met Jane I met Jane. Jane Jane. I was exploiting the record. Touring how'd you meet her. A mutual a friend. Oh Yeah I came to New York to see for a record party and all that stuff and my girlfriend brought her up to my hotel. Yeah yeah and that was She wasn't that excited she. She even seemed to know who I was. And that drove you crazy. I put a show on at the bitter end and the Dark Knight and I had a couple of days left in town and I called him up and I said I'm GonNA can. I do the Jewish. Oh Yeah I was doing anything to get compressor one and sure enough she came. I didn't didn't seem I I could I. We're sure that I would just be like a whiz. Yeah really fight for it I Yeah I did. Eventually she gave in yes. You became She came out and helped me work on my van album okay so she started producing with you pretty quickly. Yeah Yeah because she's she's had a she's written. JT which was in sixty nine. She won a peabody. I didn't know that this was her history at the time But she was a wonderful writer. Okay and but I didn't really know any of that and JT was a book. Jt became a book play. I okay she was. She wanted to be a songwriter. And she's in the Brill building. She write these long story songs for totally out of fashion and later they became the thing. Right yeah American Pie and all that Raffin but she would be guys playing those pianos in studios right. Just be hanging out trying to get. I think there's a bar at the bottom of the Bro. The whole scene. Yeah it was such a tough thing to break engineer answer. She written a long story about a a a kid who was like a bag boy or something and Gloria Sapphire. Just by coincidence. I didn't I didn't know Jane Grey Sapphire Fire. She was her agent. She said why. Aren't you. Turn it into it. Jane had never written anything in terms of scripting. She's monitor turn it into a script. Yeah and so she did and she just has that facility and it was a huge hit she got a piece of peabody and they played it every year for twenty five years holiday. Oh no kidding. And so many Incredible like Hilton House and John Singleton director rector who recently died They were so they were so influenced by JT. His kids so Because it's about a black kid in Harlem who befriends a stray cat cat and it's so magical. Oh Wow and you had no idea that she had written that when you met her. No Oh so you are the one that you knew how impressive. Yeah Yeah. That's right and then you had this. You created amazing partnership that's why I what fifty years yet. It's amazing its main congratulations. Thank you now. Many people pull that off. I know now with now. I like short time. It seems like He. I think you've addresses a bit Eh. But there was a long period of time where you know you just assume that people knew you guys were together that there was no real reason to publicize it. It was a different time and did you get criticism for that Certain somewhat I mean sure people wanted me to come making an announcement when was when did that start in the eighties. Oh yeah easily. Yeah Yeah and you just didn't feel like you needed to what was the pie didn't want to I didn't want you. I mean of course had some fear about it. My mother had my mother had really my brother's gay when he was revealed gave my mother just about had a heart attack. Yeah and she's Christian but she's really A. She was delightful. Wonderful Person. Great conversationalist witty. was she afraid for him or she just thought he was going to go to hell right and so yeah yeah. It's unfortunate with the whole thing because you know you hear these stories about this owning but that doesn't seem to be what happened. She was is just terrified for his furs. Eternal Safety and yes pretty heavy. Yeah man and so. How did that manifest itself with their relationship she they she very much loved him in state close to him and me too? Yeah and she choose New York as well. Yeah but later yeah later. Oh Yeah did you ever accept it. Yeah I could tell right right right but you just so you knew that. It caused her such grief that it didn't seem like there was a point. I think she's being public about it. Well I didn't see I didn't feel like you know. Just I felt it would just be a lot for her to bear fishy with all her relatives right right. And so you just didn't show I didn't announce no and then I did in seventy five time. Magazine offered me the cover if I would come out and it was just too ambiguous. Come out get the cover. It was like some kind of bribe. I didn't like it so you didn't do it. And it wasn't no I didn't Jewish you were on the cover seventy seven I got on the cover for my first Broadway. Show the deal. That was off the table. No but it no. It wasn't off the table. Jane researched me all the time they never wrote about it and tie and Newsweek was going to do a cover however at the same time that was when pat. Kingsley publicist so she was so art fall she could. She pulled off a couple of other dual covers. They don't find out 'til they've already started the presses running right right anyway on their. You're both in time Newsweek. Got Onto it. And that was for intelligence signs for the Time magazine that was for appearing nightly seventy seven. Yeah you were the first woman to have a Solo Broadway show. Yeah no I think my fire so really solo solo by myself. I mean other people have had shows for people ruth draper alone on Broadway draper's back. Yeah not quite but so okay so all this stuff is happening and You and Jane are working well together but but in terms of like do you have any regrets about not coming out or now in some ways I do. I mean I felt like I could've been I could've been very meaningful for. Maybe I mean Jay. Even even Allen paid a terrible price but she surpassed it sure but initially I mean she was she she was she suffered quite a bit a a point into the fear of like how. How would it affect the career European? Yeah always everybody. Everybody's kind of at you about it that you know that. That wouldn't I I mean I'm enough of A. I'm enough of a showman that I know that it would have have been something audacious do right. I didn't want to. I kind of didn't want to do it for that reason. I wanted to be so what I did it at the time when they offered me to cover seventy five and you can get this old album and you can hear it but I so I put I was doing a modern scream. Was the name of that. Album is is doing and I was being interviewed by Fan magazine. I was playing all the characters and so and I put onto heterosexual interview. Yeah you know where she says what was what was it like to see yourself making love to a man on the big screen and I say well. I've seen these women all my life. I know how they walk. I know how they talk and just went on like that and I thought that this will be my way of coming out right on my own terms and it didn't quite didn't mean a hill of beans To settle was it. I guess well anybody but wouldn't be shuttled to anybody who who's paying attention. Who is is a fan right? Yeah Yeah Yeah I guess I I guess it was something that most people knew that needed to know and that was that many people did not sure and there was never any secrets I was. We were never secretive right right right. It wasn't like you were closeted. You were just not announcing it. Yeah Yeah so so. When did you meet when did Altman? When did you start working with Altman? I had options. Book Senate Buchanan. WHO's became a friend of mine? She had had written a book called Maiden Name. Aig in it's hard to make that word clear Maidan Maidan and I just fell in love with it and I and yeah optioned the book and Jane Screenplay and And then my we Bob Altman and I had the same agent Sam Sam cone. Yeah yeah he was big agent. He was wonderful murals agent he. He really loved artists. Yeah Yeah and he was very devoted to Othman and so often offered me apart this part in Nashville and he was gonna he was going to have Joan tewkesbury direct maiden and then he did when we were down in Nashville. The guys from Columbia came down because he they they weren't to cut some time out of California split and he punched in the nose and he fell in the pool. Wow Yeah so so our maiden got candidate because of that. Yeah Oh my God so Nashville like seventy five and that was and you got nominated for an Oscar and it was a very serious role and then and I watched it last night and it's a really touching heavy role now but that's to be as an actress that you you really you know did it and did you want to do more of that type of acting. Yeah I wanted to do everything. Yeah and you ultimately committee you did right but was your point where you decided to stick more with comedies or no. No no but more comedy came my way. Oh okay I mean. They cast me in more comedies. Right and like what so that like the next one. The late show. That was with With Art Carney right. Yeah I was. What an amazing guy work with? Yeah he was such a sweet guy and you must have remembered watching him on television. Oh sure absolutely yeah he was he was something and that was so much wanted to be liked by the crew. You play the piano and I was like on the outside the crew. I was like being real absent. You were because they were. They were just. They were moving like lightning. Benton directed that movie altman produced it. But they were just bouncing lights off the ceiling real tiny little house in here in La Summer ice and And are has white hair and a florid skin and have sallow skin and black hair. Yeah and I said listen you guys are GonNa Light me better. This is just not going to were bouncing light off the ceiling. They'd say oh I'd marry you kind of stuff. Yeah and so I. Finally I took a mirror on the set everyday we day and challenged him to light me. So they didn't like me to do it eventually Yeah I'm offenses the guys. Tell me you give him a hard time. I Altman Altman. I'm not gonNA take responsibility for this because we had dailies everyday to office and and so and when you did nine to five that was a huge judge event for women everywhere. That must've like sort of ninety. Five was her was fabulous and I became been Dolly Jane. We made good friends friends ever sent. That must be one of those things where you know people now look. Do you different like you had this whole history of doing characters and everything else but I imagine after that movie in in particular that people saw you in a different light like just as like part of that crew I guess sort of a hero to working women in a certain way. Yeah maybe so. Maybe so I you know I I I never thought of. It knows exact terms weren't they. Did they do a Broadway show of it. Yeah we were there they premier in New York and here and it was so surreal real because from the audience. It looked like US really well. Yeah kind of trippy. Y- Meg kilty was like the Dalai built up strong. Yeah I mean the luxurious and they and Allison Janney played me and it was like kind of. She's much taller than I am. But it looked like me Lincoln. Okay Yeah and Mr Heart just like Dabney while it was really and we we we'd be like sort of dumbstruck. And the three of US sitting there. We felt felt like we were watching ourselves. So that's while in dollar you're still friends in the. Let's that's so nice and he did like threes. Jane is from Tennessee. Right and Dolly said dollars from Severe Ville Jan.. Jane's for Morristown and Dollywood say when she first met James e well we go to more to get our teeth fixed the extent that's hilarious so the TV specials. It's funny because I interviewed Lauren. Michaels years ago and he wrote owed wanted his his first writing. Jobs was on the show for you correct. That was with the prior right prior was on the first two. Yes Lilly and the Lilly town. That was seventy three. Seventy five March march of seventy three in November of seventy. Okay Yeah and then that second one won two emmys right so the now. How'd you meet prior well? I used to see prior occasionally at the at the You you're not. Yeah not the comedy store. The other play Improv Improv. You so in New York in New York right and I. I seen him on on television and Ed Sullivan during the premise in the premises and I just fell in love with them. Just yeah I was so. I'm getting chills right now. Just and so when I got a special I wanted him on it above all and I went to him and I tried to get him to be on the special and so he we had like like we went her. He didn't I don't think he like Kinda got who I was or anything. So I took in. He'd he'd been blackballed already from Vegas. Remember all that the lost it. Yeah when he got mad and walked off because he didn't want to be the bill cosby flunky Bill Cosby I. Guess that was it. Yeah so he And but he's done lady sings the blues but it was still in the CAN. Okay so he so. He took me to the neighborhood and and everybody knew who I was from Laffin. You know which neighborhood was this yourself central. Yeah it'd be what's somewhere wherever neighborhood. He felt felt getting my endorsement. Okay and 'cause they loved like they'll tasteful eighty and we're getting hit with one uh-huh and spreading her legs and all that stuff yet and of course they loved Ernestine. Yes anyway so then. He asked me to go to porno movie with him. And I said okay. I'll go but I'll pay my own way. Yeah and we did that anyway. We hit it off pretty soon. He was going going to be on the show. Pretty Big Star at that point Community was that as you're not quite yet not Shortly after sort of But I was we were working on the Wino- in the tasteful lady who gets stuck in an elevator together and he And Berry Gordy called him to tell him how good he was in releasing the blue he'd just seen a cut and he's told him he was going to be nominated and Richard was he's like that little prince and Princess Kid he was so excited and kind of couldn't believe it. Wow he was. So gratified did he get nominee. I don't remember memory. Well he's a great actor. I mean I just watched that one. You did Was it Juke. You can open so Jane had written that for him for the the first show and Bob Practice our our partner. I mean they gave him to me. You know and he didn't even send it over. He said they're not GonNa let she do that. And are so I just so when they asked me and I had a huge rating offer that show and it was because of laugh in so I they. They asked me to do another one and I said well do it. If I don't have to have a partner executive network executive interfere richer. Sure and so I ah so. They said they wanted somebody that they could talk to. Yeah so I interviewed Norman. Yeah I went it to everybody. That was like a Norman Lear. Yeah and finally I settled on grant grant tinker because he was kind of like more mild manner as your as your executive producer but even grant would like pat my hand. He'd say you go home now. We'll take care of and it was just so personal for me. Just I never able to do what you wanted to do with granny quite a bit. Yeah well that worked well. We didn't we because because Juechen Opel. We didn't get to do that on the first show his second show I had done. I had a piece called wargames because the war in Vietnam was still on right almost almost going to be off maybe and so I had a game where woman Mrs Beasley goes in the backyard. War going on in her backyard. Yeah Yeah and so I taped it for the first show. Yeah didn't get on. I mean they just stop. No No. It's not GONNA go on. It's not going to go on and all that stuff and so the second show I tape can opel and I taped wargames to bargain with it. Okay I learned that from George of Yeah so so so you need to get one. Yeah Yeah and I wanted you can open. It's such a sweet the it's almost like a little play. Yeah and that's the one with all the two he comes in. Yeah that's right. Yeah so which one would show a sad. I don't know which one what year was. That was the second show it it must have been the second show. Let's see no here go seventy-three Okay Yep November seventy-three second show okay. Yeah Yeah and we sat the one that had a lauren wrote on that one. Yeah that's the first show. He Rose Allen all the you and Bill Gerber. Yeah you've been in business a long time fifty years. So what's it like now you love it. Yeah I do I mean we you know Jane and I love Jane found and I love doing Grayson Frankie and of course she's been in DC for the last three or four months getting arrested. Yes old school jam went. I went last Twenty-seventh Chris she was on a half too many people because it was right after the holidays so and I couldn't get my. Jane had taken a fall and hurt her shoulder she. I really didn't want to leave her sure. And so I wasn't able to go in the beginning but it was sweet. You're going be with Jane She's She's she's serious. She means business. Oh yeah she she really is connected yet to what it is that she believes in. Yeah absolutely do you find it always has been. Yeah now. You've done a lot of exploring with that stuff and you brought you grew up in you know pretty Christian household apparently Christian. My father wasn't Christiano. Just your mom. Yeah Yeah Okay my take me to the track in the bookie joints on Saturdays and my mother would take me to church on Sunday so you got both sides was very very very lovely child. Where where'd you end spiritually though do you have any or you don't think about it? No I'm not. I'm not religious but do you have any belief the what keeps you outside of the massive amount of supplements what can what keeps you sane. Work Work I'm not so saying but I don't I don't I don't I don't need anything like that. But you're not the character in race and Frankie either you you know I mean. She's kind of Kook. Oh yeah you must have friends that ended up like that from the old days. Yeah well the generation of kind of a free spirits from time. You know what I mean. Yeah she's living in a commune and stuff right. Yeah I I. I notice that when I was watching Nashville that that all that that expansive way of life the sexual nature and just the sort of open mindedness of that time romanticize about it do you ever get forward or are you am I or my idealising that period. No I think No I don't get I don't I don't Miss I never was part of that and yeah I mean I was. I was part of everything. Yeah whenever I wear I could play the room. Yeah right right right. But you didn't get caught up up with two Trent riveting no I liked drugs but I don't take him. Yeah right well I mean them fried chicken dabble or stuff like that certain points and it's fun but then you think Oh God I saw. My friends have Parkinson's I so worried that they they got a lot of them. Do think it was from the coke. I'm wonder I wonder too. I you know I. I wonder too. If it didn't have some some element some maybe some of it was cut with. Who knows? Yeah I I've I've thought about that myself. I guess at that time to heroin was bad too. I mean there's a lot of people I know. A lot of people snorted heroin. Yep Yep a lot of people and I guess I'd probably yeah I don't. I never did it either. I tried it wasn't my thing I snorted at one thing I liked going fast thing like. Oh yeah I like going fast. I like going fast too but yeah but we you get older. You don't need that shit anymore no you. Don't you WanNa stay alive life. That's part of it. Yeah Yeah you don't WanNA freak out. I mean you know you get your surgery if your heart starts fluttering on its own. You're panicking. Why why increase increase the possibilities of that happening? Yes you're right. I guess that. That's that's probably the truth. I came to in somehow intuitively course you like. Is it worth like what we WANNA panic. When you're fucking seventy over drugs? I mean I'm I'm white fifty six I haven't done I've been so life ahead of you know and it doesn't doesn't involve cocaine or pot or anything you got a whole life ahead of you so wait. What season are we on with? Grace and Franky Eighty. We're going to be shooting seven sixes in an and that's what's on be released January fifteen and people love it. Yeah they do. It must be great right like there must be a whole audience for like you know people who've been with you forever like you know fans there must be people who are like in their seventies now who live died the like you know your constant in people's lives and that's a beautiful thing and you're an inspiration because you keep working and now you're married married and out and comfortable you've had a relationship for fifteen years you've never stopped working and you keep doing provocative stuff it's it's You know it it. Just it gives people hope that life is worth living. I think yeah that would be nice. God it's true. I I would like Ed if we can't stop the climate will. Yeah well I mean I guess that's for sure. Yeah well okay. We'll we'll work on that okay. We'll do what we can on the day to day. Basis enjoy Grayson Frankie and I don't know try not to. Oh God we're back at the climate Australia's burning. Oh goodness the Koalas all know kangaroos. Aw No oh running. I hadn't thought of that yet. Well what you're GonNa make me depressed. And what did I get depressed. You brought up the climate. I know what I mean then. I dwell on the numbers and stuff. Let's not do it. What's GonNa go on a high note? Okay it was very exciting to talk to you. I've I've been wanting to for a long time trying to talk to you. I've talked way too much and install a lot of but it's all these are nice little details all right. I am glad you have fun with my listeners. We're not losing anybody thank you really. Thank you mark. I love her when amazing treat. That was for me. I it just really great. She's just amazing to talk to an amazing person The new season of grace and Franky Premiers on Netflix. This Wednesday January fifteenth. Go Watch Nashville though. You haven't done that in a while. And a reminder. There's no I in team but there is a spot in space set forty years in the future when the solar system is the hottest Tourist Destination Avenue. Fives they knew. Hbo Let's be. Oh comedy that takes place on a luxury cruise ship. Traveling to the rings of Saturn created by Armando IANNUCCI. The series stars Hugh Laurie Josh Gad. Bad and Zach Woods Avenue five premiers January nineteen at ten pm only on. Hbo Know It's Fucking Get psyched out. What's do some psychedelic thing in battle? uh-huh ed la La La. Yeah boomer labs