11 Episode results for "Louise Mary"

Ted Bundy: Buried Secrets

Scene Of the Crime

1:33:43 hr | 1 year ago

Ted Bundy: Buried Secrets

"She was a blondie with Hayes allies. Ann Marie Burr at eight years old was lively and good natured. Her smile was legendary. She was big sister next in line was Julie. Who was seven Greg Five? And Little Mary was three years old. The large Catholic family called the North End of Tacoma home, a tidy brick, English style bungalow. The kind of house, the big bad wolf could not blow down. At least that's what they thought on that. Hot August Day in nineteen sixty one. It was a Wednesday and the last week of summer vacation. Then Labor Day and back to school, and on that day sunshine had been muted by dark, forboding clouds. The Air had turned monkey when Anne Marie came bounding through the door, begging her mother Bev Force sleepover at her friends. But with summer, winding down the harried mother of four. Felt it was high time to tame her. Wiley brewed from the Ad Hawk summer routine. Going to bed early and preparation for an early morning school schedule so. She next that sleepover. and Oh. How that split second decision would later come to haunt her. The storm kicked into high gear. Heavy rain hit the rooftop wind howled. It was a batten down the hatches kind of night. That night Anne Marie was sharing a room with Mary who is still nursing a broken arm? She story crying out for her mother and Anne Marie dutifully brought her little sister to her parents room where their mother soothed. And then sent the girls back to bed. All was quiet except Barney, the family dog barking. Bevin don dismissed his cries believing. The storm was to blame for spooking the which. They had no idea. Evil had entered the family home as they lay sleeping. At Dawn Bev awoke with start. Fear in her heart. Was it mother's intuition. She rushed to check on the children. and Maurice bed was empty. She descended downstairs to the living room like a flash flood. The front door was ajar. The dining room window wide open. Outside she noticed a garden bench had been moved from the backyard, and placed beneath that open front window, heart thumps, and a high gear blood rushed into her ears. Where was an Marie? Anne Marie father scoured the neighborhood. A construction site at nearby University of puget sound caught his attention especially when he saw mounds of fresh dirt in piles around dishes and other excavated sites, a chill when up his spine, when he observed a teenage boy, kicking dirt into a ditch with his foot. To that kid has smirk on his face. Don Begged police to search the site which they did four days later, but by then. had been filled in. Dan Marie was never seen again what they didn't know. WAS THAT SURLY TEEN? Just could have been Ted Bundy, so he was like fourteen. Then it was known to ride a bicycle through the neighborhood and Murray's mother would later say she had not prepared her child for evil in the world they had taught her that everyone was good. But how could any mother ever prepare their eight year old child for the evil depraved twisted teen, hiding inside the package of the boy next door, the smiling handsome, mild-mannered preppy. Who all the while behind that mask was scheming how to get away with abducting sexually assaulting and murdering young girls. Say snapped that I knew that. The couldn't control them. More of these barriers have been is still. Not Enough a hold me bat with respect to. Seeking out and an army's body. I'm Caroline Gloria with Kim Shepard and this is the scene of the crime. That is a parent's worst nightmare. You think when you have your children tucked in at home cozy in their beds. At night. You lock the front door that you can go to sleep that you can turn off that little voice in in a mom's head. That is constantly worried about what could be going wrong with her children like. My kids tucked in the house is locked up for the night. The whole world has kind of gone to sleep and rest I think that's maybe the only time that I am not worried about my children with sleeping and now I've given you something to worry about right. But, I was looking up information on the likelihood of missing children being murdered, which is surprisingly unusual in like ninety nine percent of the cases when children missing, they're not killed their found. Let versus good very good, which is really good, but to the Attorney General of Washington state who conducted a study in one, thousand, nine, hundred seventy, said in seventy four percent of cases where the abducted children were killed, it happened within three hours of. Of the abduction, so is this the scenario where you hear it? We've done these stories and it's like well. We can't do a missing child report until it's been a certain amount of time. Because Ninety nine percent of the time they come back well, and that used to be the case. Those rules have really been changing in recent years. I mean think about the amber alert that you now have in place. It doesn't have to be. Be a twenty four hour situation. I think they might still have those rules for adults, but when it comes to children, the general's report, their conclusion of it was the importance of parents calling police immediately. They said the biggest problem they had was that. In most of these child abduction cases, parents would wait at least two hours before calling the police because they would think. Oh, baby, Janis, over at a friend's house, or maybe they just. Just snuck out there down the street we'll find them, and so they do a little bit of looking around I before calling authorities, and so the takeaway from this report was you call us within an hour or so much more likely to find your child, and have it be a good outcome? Well, in this case, I know that Bev she basically left the house went and spoke to. The neighbors came back in they immediately. Immediately called the police, and but that's the thing. She left the House and talk to the neighbors. I yeah not to put any blame it on whatever, but like. If there's one thing that maybe could have been done differently, it would be call the police immediately well, and I think that in this case what I didn't include that in the scene center is that they had seen a peeping Tom in the neighborhood as they were getting. Getting Information and so it's sad to say if this was Ted Bundy knowing what his Mo now is. She didn't stand a chance. Yeah, so hindsight is twenty twenty things in this case that yeah I mean. Maybe things could have been done differently, but when it comes right down to it, there's not a thing that anybody could have done. Yeah so first. Let's go back in time to start at the beginning to tell this story. Story though I had a lot of help, my sources include the documentary conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes Cairo. Seven TV ABC News, the Seattle Times and Wikipedia, so we're going way back to November twenty, four, th and nineteen forty six Theodore Robert Cowl was born to Louise and a home for unwed mothers in Vermont now Louise was twenty two, and after giving birth, she goes back home to live with their parents in Philadelphia. Philadelphia and Theodore or Ted he's raised to believe that his grandparents are his parents and that Louise is his older sister, so louise flees her parents home when he was three years old life was tough in their home, but allegedly what prompted Louise to pack up and move to Tacoma Washington was a situation where Louise's sister woke up to find her bed covered in kitchen knives with three-year-old Ted smiling at the foot of her bed. Yes three years old so crazy. Yeah, and I guess the which I'm GonNa get into in a minute, but the the grandfather. Who they were you know, he was raising Ted as his son and the grandmother was the mother, and then he thought that his real mother was actually his okay, so he was this horrible guy. Terrible grandfather, yeah, who ted later said that he identified, but that's such a zero to three I mean people could say oh well. It wasn't that long, but those are the the formative formative years yet and I was looking up I was curious about this because I know that there was a lot of rage and trauma that was happening in the family, and so I was curious about what affects childhood trauma could actually have on the development of the brain and I found this study from Dr Michael Develops. Who is with? With Duke University, and what he says, basically that those who experience a lot of childhood trauma are particularly prone to having chronic issues later in life including PTSD depression, anxiety, antisocial behavior, greater risk for alcohol and substance abuse, and the reasons for this are the changes in the brain structure that happens when you're in stressful situations, traumatic situations, your biology releases Cortisol and other hormones into your system that can not only impact your behavior in the moment, but when it's a brain that still in the process of forming can actually. How that brain forms, and make you more susceptible to having flights of anger, flights of anxiety, antisocial behaviors well and at three with the knives around the bed. Like clearly clearly, we've got issues here. So the so his mom who still believes as his sister they fleet Tacoma. Cousins for a while, so they have family, and that's what basically led them to. So it was just a really chaotic home life, but then a bright spot in early nineteen, fifty one Bundy's mom Louise Mary's a man named Johnny Bundy and Theodore is given his new stepfather's last name. Johnny is described as everything Louise's father is not caring, sweet and loving Bundy later thinks of him as an uneducated poor. You know he doesn't make a lot of money, and he's like really dismissive, even though the husband is like totally awesome and treats the. The family really well and takes them camping. You know Bundy kind of never really they have four other children together and Bundy always kinda keeps himself on the outside of it well, and that's the other thing that early childhood trauma effects is the child's ability in later, the adults ability to form connections in bonds with other people that is stunted in the brain win. You have so much early childhood trauma, so I'm not surprised that he had a hard time feeling any kind of attachment a stepfather, but I think though that we get this. This impression at least I do where it's like. We had the trauma at three up to three where it was super chaotic. The grandfather, which will get into in a minute was just completely psycho, but then he has this loving you know by all accounts, loving family, and so it gets back to that whole nature versus nurture, and you're. You're kind of like, I? You can't erase the trauma that's been done by having a nurturing family. I mean that three years of trauma changed. His biology changed his brain in a way. That can't be. Be Undone by okay well now you're around Nice people, so just stop being this PTSD, person like It just doesn't work that. Let me think about people who go to war and come home, and now you're in a loving family environment. Why can't you just move on and put that behind you? Because it's not that simple? Yeah, when it comes to the brain there still so much. We don't know, but that's what I think. That's what you and I love trying to figure out so in nineteen sixty five, though bundy graduates from. Wilson High School in Tacoma and then in the fall of nineteen, sixty five. He enrolls at the University of puget sound that same school where an Marie. Parents are convinced that Bundy buried her so I talked to collate Steiger about an Marie disappearance and presumed murder, and he says there are so many other cold cases that investigators are still trying to figure out if Bundy was responsible people `specially an I I tend to agree that he probably did that one. I've actually we actually went down to I've been to his childhood home. Ameri burs home and it's he would ride a bike and it would. It'd be about eight or ten minute bicycle ride from her. How his house to her house and then there was a a shoeprint outside her window, maybe six and he was like fourteen then, and that probably would have been about the size shoe war so I mean that's you know those type of things and. Disguise are notorious serial serial killer that didn't live far away and was known to ride his bicycle through the neighborhood, and this little girl disappeared midnight Corsi. He denied that he did it, but you know the serial killers will admit to some and not to others because. They want you know they don't want to be thought of as a child killer although. He killed Kimberly was twelve in which ultimately executed for and I think he had another twelve year old victim or something very close somewhere else, but know that's the way that's the thing is. There's a lot of cases that are ted by cases across this country that deplete agencies have no clue that it's the Ted Bundy case because it's only one murder. Murder He's he's. He drove clerk. US country went for Vermont then down to Florida and you know he was all over the place, and he didn't just and he he would have stopped. Places need probably killed all across the country and to that agency is just. It's just a single murder, right? We have this one unsolved murder. They don't have any clue. That has anything to do with Ted. Bundy Cam you'll remember the voice of our favorite detective Cloyd Steiger up him act. It's such a pleasure talking because he's so curious, he is a retired Seattle police detective, and he's the author of the books homicide. The view from inside the tape I actually just ordered that We're going on a camping trip and unlike. Can Sign. And then he also of course Seattle's forgotten serial killer Gary Gene. Grant which we did a vote on. Yes, and today, though and this is where you know. I was really happy to talk to him because today he's the chief criminal investigator of the Washington State Attorney General's homicide. Investigation tracking system and what they do is they track all murders in Washington Oregon and Montana as well as assist local agencies with homicide investigations, including cold case homicide, so he's in this deep. Yeah, and that's part of the reason why we wanted to do this case. Even though you know Ted, Bundy, everybody kind of knows who he is and what he did, and you know it's not exactly a new story, but. Cloyd has such an interesting take and has so much knowledge about the cases that might be connected to Bundy that they haven't been able to definitively say. That we really wanted to talk about Ted Bundy. Talk about these cases and talk about the ones that were. Possibly connected, but they haven't yet figured that out yet. Because I think, that is really interesting, well in another one in Washington, and this is, and it's interesting, too, because these are all before his main killing spree like these are when he is still really young. This has mainly the prequel yeah. Yes, I, mean it's. It's no joke. Like in another case, it was a huge case. In the June of nineteen sixty five included talks about this one. This chilling case that they just didn't put together I mean. How could they know to flight attendants that were. Roommates in a house in Queen Anne. and. They were asleep when somebody came into the middle of the night and bludgeoned them with a board. It's very similar to kyle mega and bludgeoned him both severely One of them died at the scene, the other actually survived because she had curlers in her hair, but she suffered brain damage, and has no recollection of the event, and so, and it was a terrible crime. And you know that's that's one over the years people have speculated. Could have done and I tend to agree that he probably did do it like I said he worked at the Safeway not too far away, and it's exactly the basically the same always come egging down in Florida. It's really incredible that they now have these cases that they think might be connected an oak. Loyd is working with this state. Wow, national database on serial killers I mean. is he able to get anywhere with these like you looking at DNA to move these cases forward to actually see if there's a connection, he brought up. How the that this particular one? There's a picture of that bloody board and they're holding it without gloves the detectives. So it's like you know, it's before nine, hundred sixty five before they, even thinking about DNA is so far away from being on the radar, but Cloyd says another interesting point about bringing up these early cases that although this is anecdotal, it's chilling because he spoke with a detective that work that case and it. Kinda shows Bundy's. And, he told me goes this guy's close to ninety years old now. You told me he was standing on this on the outside of the perimeter. When this young guy came walking up to him and say hey, what's going on here? It's a homicide. And he said can I go in. No, you can't go in. And he says the Guy said hi I'm Ted and shook his hand and walked away and he sure to this day. That was Ted Bundy. What yeah, I mean! It just shows the audacity. He had from an early age. Things that he was just bulletproof in this way. I know it is now. It was never confirmed that Bundy went to that went back to that scene of the crime that day, but it surely fits his Mo as they would later come to know was so brazen and so cocky, and any thought Naked Never Taito. Any was obviously maybe right, because it's been fifty some years later. He's still not was never charged with that case, and it isn't cleared, but that some people just are that way again. It's part of their psyche. It's not necessarily the whole killer back into crime doesn't isn't necessarily true, but just because of the way Bundy was. It sounds like exactly something he would have done. So by the fall of nineteen, sixty six. We know that he was in the area he'd moved to Seattle and is now attending the University of Washington and from one thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, seven to nineteen, Sixty, eight here another bread crumb. He's in a relationship with a girl named Stephanie Brooks. Who breaks his heart and it's worth noting that she closely resembles his future victims, which is long brown hair parted in the middle in big hoop earrings. Apparently, this relationship ended because she thought he was sort of like drifting through life, and he lied and he. He shoplifted, but this break up really had an effect on Bundy and it really upset him on top of that. In early nineteen, sixty nine, he visits the town in Vermont where he was born, and he learns that he is illegitimate. Cloyd says coincidentally a woman is found murdered very nearby. He was born actually in Burlington Vermont in like a home for unwed mothers, basically, and this girl lived like right next to that home and was found murdered when he was there when he was probably. There I don't know if they linked down by so he. The he's. He's been to show him in the area when the murder happened. It's a murderer that matches them all, so they have not been able to definitively link that to him though it's still unresolved. Yeah, because you gotta understand, it's again one of the the off murders completely away from Washington, but it had the same Mo.. Beaten to death, so investigators say that Bundy another piece to this puzzle might have been fathered by his mother, Louise's abusive and violent father. Samuel cowl Oh, so we're talking incest. Yes, we are now. I remember you talking about the rage issues that his grandfather or father had. I was actually curious about this. I looked up whether or not rage is hereditary, and there is a A doctor Dr Redford Williams. WHO's the director of Behavioral Medicine? Research at Duke, university looked this, and he said you know it's been proven that prolonged periods of anger can do raise your blood pressure your Adrenalin your cortisol levels. It can damage your immune system, and essentially it like attacks your body in a way. That almost is like it's killing you when you get these really serious fits of rage. And, so he wanted to study less. What they say. Stress can kill rage. Can I mean it's all? It's all part and parcel to the same kind of emotion. And what it does to your body, so when he did his research on this, he found. There is a tiny molecular variation on a gene that is known to predict people who will have bouts of anger. Whether or not that genetic variation comes from your lineage He hasn't been able to determine. Is this genetic variation something that is like a fluke, or is it something that you get from you know your mom or your dad or whatever? He wasn't able to determine that, but he said there is definitely something in your genes that can make you more prone to fits of rage and according to this paper that I was looking at, he was hoping to do some more research to determine just how closely it can be linked to heredity well, and it sounds like Ted. Bundy could be very close to the. The Person News the ranger in the family according to Wikipedia and nineteen, eighty-seven Bundy and other family members told attorneys that Samuel cow was a Toronto bully and a bit who hated blacks. Italians Catholics and Jews beat his wife and the family dog and swung the neighborhood cats by their tails. He wants through Louise's younger sister Julia down a flight of stairs for oversleeping, and here's a key piece. He sometimes spoke aloud to unseen presences, and at least once flew into a violent rage when the question of Bundy's paternity was raised. That sounds like it was a sore subject. We'll talk about childhood trauma if he was there or if he knew about that situation. How would that impact a little kid who's two or three years old to hear your father, grandfather or whoever it may be? Angry about the fact that there your father. Yeah, I mean I get that, but I mean. Have you ever read the Glass Castle I mean it's just like the most traumatic, but wonderfully written amazing memoir, and it's like the type of abuse that kids in that story underwent and poverty and conditions like not just until they were three like ongoing i. mean it's just it's really hard to read, but it's one of those must-reads. I just have a hard time with. The nature versus nurture the I. Guess Maybe I've just read into so much. The story that I just can't even justify and I'm not saying you're justifying his actions, but it's like he makes me sick like I. Don't I just can't. You know what I mean. Yeah, just my. Desire to understand how he became the serial killer that he became is. How do we keep this from happening again? How to keep other kids from winding up in this situation that damages their brain in a way that they are prone to fits of rage, and no and I'm glad you're thinking I'm like in cavewoman mode where? I Think beyond like just retribution. What. What but I think that it's I'm so glad that we have people asking these questions and I'm glad to be talking with you about the questions. This is a great point to transition into advances. DNA technology, matter of fact I was involved in a documentary pro project. A couple years ago audion where they were because they had access to clothing and note pads from one of his previous attorneys, and they're gonNA. Have that processed for DNA to see if there were the markers of incest in his DNA. They just decided. Halfway through production that they were going to instead focus on the victims and not on him. Unless you had a sample from his grandfather, you couldn't definitely say. His grandfather was a father, but there are markers in DNA genome that show and then sexual relationship. Yeah, they had DNA they could definitely. Figure that out, but you mentioned that he moved to come up with his mom when he was three, was that his sister mom or his? That was his sister I mean that was his mom, who who he thought was his sister when he was three, and he moved to coma. Did he think he was moving with his sister? I think so. That's weird. Yeah, but doesn't make sense to me it doesn't I mean I? Looked I looked because to me on. That was a point whereas like, wait a second. It seems like because especially when the his stepfather adopts him, there's inconsistencies, but you heard Cloyd saying he didn't find out until later, and that's basically the narrative from all the stuff that I've read is that he really didn't find out that his sister was actually his mother until later Serious case denial, but okay, I mean it was and that's why he was really upset and angry that he was kept in the dark this whole time. Yeah I mean I, could I could definitely see where you know. Aside from the fact that the childhood trauma of having this father slash grandfather, who had this rage was violent, and perhaps mentally ill in more ways than. Than One, that would be traumatic enough, but then to find out that you've also been lied to and Yeah I. Mean That's that's a lot it's it's definitely a lot. But what was interesting cloyd and I had continued that conversation. When you think about what does it mean to know if incest runs in your family, but and that's I. Mean, that's not an excuse. But. He had a lot of deep anger about lot of stuff. WHO HAS UPBRINGING? He went back to Vermont to the unwed mothers home where he was born, and then incidentally while he's there later. This girl is in the house. Next door is murdered. I mean the guy's lashing out losing control. Angry upset and I. Don't know how far you want to go with this discussion, but one thing that stuck with me from class on cultural anthropology was the idea of taboo. Yeah, every culture in the world has some things that are taboo and one thing that crosses cultural boundaries. Almost two hundred percent of the world is taboo against incest. Yeah, it's up there with cannibalism I. Think clearly it's happening a lot more than people want to admit. I mean look at that case that we did with the emery. Brothers and people don't want to talk about it, so the interesting thing about taboos is that they do two things they do minimize that behavior, so if there's a taboo against incest, society says incest is bad. People are generally pressured not to do it, and let's be honest. Most people don't really want to. To do it anyway, but when it does happen, no one wants to admit it. No one wants to talk about it. It's hidden. It's put in a closet shoved into the back and nobody wants to so taboo. It's like a catch twenty two where it's like well. Yeah, it makes people less likely to do that behavior, but it also makes it more likely that if they do the behavior. It's going to be hidden. It's going to be you know secretive. No one's going to want to talk about it or admit to it. And so it's weird in a way that it it works both kind of beneficially and non beneficial if It feeds on itself. Yeah, what about the DNA aspect would you want to know if you had a marker for incest, or would you rather not know it depends on? What would you do with that information? Is it something that would be helpful to you later on in life like for your medical benefit? Is there a reason that you would need to know that or Can't have any of the information if somebody said to you Kim I, have your your profile here? Do you want to know if you have incest in your family or not? You know. Do you WanNa? Take the red or the Blue Pill. I mean I it. Just. It's so much depends on the situation I in my case, I think I think everybody's different. Yeah, I don't think I'd want to know. I think I would if I was still in contact with any of the people that might have been involved. Hell Yeah. Well or just stay away from them I mean if if they're capable of that I, would wanna know so so I wouldn't bring my children around them. So it depends well. I. Think in the future they will. Probably we can send off an me one two three or whatever on. Like I think in the future. You know that that's that's coming up. You know so. We'll see but anyway back to the fall of Nineteen sixty-nine. We go and Bundy is at U. DUB and he begins a long term relationship with Lindsey with Liz. Kendall who has a young daughter, so in Nineteen, seventy and nineteen from the years of nineteen seventy. Seventy to nineteen seventy-two. He is seriously living this double life. He was active in politics and also worked at the suicidal hotline with the famous true crime, writer and rule who worked alongside him? I mean at the time. She wasn't famous she was you know she was just? She was just an yeah. He was my partner at the crisis clinic in Seattle. And every month every Sunday and every Tuesday night Ted Bundy and I were locked up all night long alone together in this big Victorian Mansion in the highest crime district of Seattle. And we were saving lives, and he would walk me to my car when I left it three or four in the morning. And say and please be careful in the way home. Lock your doors I don't want anything bad to happen to you. He was sympathetic. Hit a gentle voice. He was so understanding, and he was good at keeping people alive, and would later go on to write the stranger beside me about her time with Bundy and Bundy also graduates from with a degree in psychology from the U. Dub, and one could say that he wanted to use that knowledge to manipulate not only his victims, but the world who, in their wildest dreams could not imagine their friends family member Co.. Co worker who he really was, but basically Bundy had been educating himself on law enforcement for a long time he was studying how the police caught killers, probably to be titillated, but also to understand so this was before his first known murder. Well, nobody no see that's the thing. He flew under the radar so long and he's trying to maintain this normal life, but that's the thing is. It makes me think like he's already been killing people yeah. Own Killing. He's like okay. I better. Make sure that I'm doing this right if I want to keep doing this so that I don't get caught Oh. Yeah, that's been his. He's been doing that for a long time, but it's even more reason to think that some of these previously unconnected cases could be connected. Yeah, and the degree in psychology. Like yeah, you know he's. He's picking. You know he's A. A quick study on how to maintain a normal life while he's a killing machine driving a Volkswagen bug, he fit into his surrounding so well. Most people had no idea they had Predator in their Mitts, and in November nineteen, seventy-three, he ab- ducks and murders. Kathy divined from a street and Seattle. Her body is later found near Olympia and I'm including all of the the murders here just to kind of. Of Give you a chronology of of how rampant he is and brazen. He is in January nineteen seventy four attacks. Joni Lens in her apartment in Seattle. Amazingly she survives in February of that year. Bundy abducts and strangles Linda and healy from her basement apartment in the district. Now she is a well. She is well known in the community for giving the Weekday Ski Report on the radio so these bodies. Bodies again. It's like in different places. A couple of Martin Seattle or few of them are in Seattle in March of Nineteen seventy-four Bundy murdered Donna Gail Manson a student at Evergreen State College now that's in Olympia. Her body was never recovered. So imagine this bug is driving all over all over the Pacific northwest and I just hear the engine I know, don't you? Everyone would know it was coming. But see that's the that's the saddest part of all. They wouldn't know it was coming. There would know what was coming. They would know it was coming out. In April nineteen, seventy four, so one a month. He abducts and kills Susan Elaine. Ran Court a student at central Washington. University, that's an ELLENSBURG. May Nineteen seventy-four Bundy abducted Roberta. Kathy Parks from Oregon State University he claimed, was sexually assaulted and killed her at Taylor. Mountain, what wait a minute. Yeah, more than twenty five miles southeast of Seattle and where I am going. As soon as we get done recording this so Mike, are you? Worst. Horse I ride Taylor. Mountain will describe Taylor Mountain because that's one of his dumping ground. I mean if you're familiar with cougar out cougar about what does. Tiger, mountain, I looked it up because I thought. Did they right this wrong note? Tiger Mountain, so if you're familiar tiger mountain basically Taylor. Mountain is the backside of Tiger Mountain. It's almost like its little brother where you have highway eighteen that runs in between the two so to the west side of highway eighteen is Tiger Mountain and to the east side of highway eighteen is Taylor mountain and Taylor mountain like tiger. Mountain is completely evergreen trees yards. The I can see very secluded, and I can imagine back in the seventies. It was even more secluded than it is now. Now, and now there isn't anything up there. It's one of the largest trail systems in the area in the King County kind of Western. Washington area and that that's why so many people go horseback riding up. There is because there isn't anything up there, and it's just really all trails and wilderness, so June, first nineteen seventy-four Bundy abducted Brenda Carol Ball from Burien. Her skull was later found at Taylor Mountain, so it's like you can see the pattern here where he's abducting them from a certain place, and then bring them to a completely different place. Yeah, that's nowhere near. You probably an hour. Oh, no, well in. Olympia has like three hours away from Seattle Oregon State. University have a bug. He's committed here and he has a plan. And where does he put his victims in that bug driving them around in the back seat, going to explain this so in June eleventh, nineteen, seventy four bundy would later describe years later probably right before he was to be executed, he would describe to Robert Capelle. He was the original Seattle detective assigned to catch him how he hunted and killed Georgeanne Hawkins, pulling one of his ruses that he would become infamous for an alley near her U. DUB Sorority House. Moving up the alley. Using! A briefcase. In some crutches! And a young woman walked down. About halfway down the block. I encountered her. And asked her to help me carry the briefcase. which she did, we won't back up the alley. Basically reached the car. What happened was I. Knocked her. Unconscious, With a crowbar. and. Handcuffed put her in the driver's. I mean the passenger side of the car. Drove away. Thing that makes it. Among the things that makes it difficult at this point. She was quite lucid talking about things. It's funny, it's. Funny, but it's odd the things people say an. Under those circumstances and She had a Spanish test the next day and she thought that I had. Taken her to? Help, to to make I banished test. Long short of it was. That I again, not unconscious. The, Girls head was. severed. Up The road of. Twenty five fifty yards. At buried in a location about ten yards west of the. Rocky also. By this time, it was almost dawn. On this particular morning. I was just absolutely. Again just shocked and scared to death shot horrified about. Went down the road throwing the briefcase, the the crutches road. Just tossing out the window and the crow everything Anka's everything. I get mad at myself two weeks later because they'd have to go buy another pair. Not Comical, but that's what when. This was just. I was in a state of panic of just absolute horror. You know it's like at that point time. Consciousness of what has really happened to psych. He break out of a fever or something. I would add is and so I would I drove. Talk about details coming back. I couldn't find one of the shoes. So. I thought it was there. But it wasn't. So I went back. This is this is. My bicycle road back to the parking lot I knew there are police all over the place by that time. So it may parthenon found both pierced ears. Pierced earrings and the shoe link in the parking lot. Hawaii surreptitiously gathered them up. So. They are. That's Ted. Bundy right yeah voice. Yes, what is he on because? He sounds like he is on some serious medication during that I'm. Probably like lithium or something, I have no idea but to me. It's like the other thing I noticed is that he started to get more lucid and coherent as he was talking about the details of the crime, not the details of luring her, but the details of what he did after he got her well and was interesting in that interview. When you listen to the whole unedited, that was an edited version of it, but you have the detective asking questions trying to have him admit to sexually assaulting her all night in the woods, and he just wouldn't go there. He just. Wouldn't you know he? He would always say these things, and and as I. I was listening to all these different interviews taped interviews of his confessions later like I mean the guys about ready to die. I mean if you're hearing something in his voice, it's fear. It's you know all of his emotions, so it just sounds like he's given up. He sounds like he has just given up. And you know why even bother drawing another breath. He's still at that point bargaining for his life. He's wanting to get that. He did not want to die up until the very end. He did not want to die, but he would always want. He had to be in control of everything in these interviews like he didn't want to admit. How he had sexually assaulted them all night long what he had done how he had done it. He ever admit to sexually assaulting any of his victims. He did to some of them, but he couldn't go into, and this isn't to go into detail. What tell us all the gory details, but but it's like I. Think it's. If he's willing to admit to certain things and not others like. Yes, why is he willing to admit to this horrific crime, but not sexual assault which I mean also is horrific, but. It's not worse than matter. And that's what cloyd was saying. Some of these guys will admit to some, but won't admit to others. No matter what it almost makes me wonder about the idea of the way that he came into the world and the incest and the situation with his mom slash, sister and father slash grandfather. If? There wasn't some kind of sexual deviancy. Maybe, he felt like a don again. Grasping at straws, trying to understand the minor killer, which is impossible, but I wonder if it could have been something where he could admit to rage, she could admit to murder, but the idea of admitting to sexual deviancy was just something he couldn't do because of his history to his interviews where he's like he'll, he'll gloss over and he's like well. You know we don't have time now to go into those deeper. Deeper caverns and you can tell he's trying to control control the narrative control. The situation I mean who knows like what some people think is perfectly normal that I'm a complete Weirdo and other people think like you know what I mean. It's like I think it's the individual person where they're shameless boundary lines, are we? You know what that's. The interesting part is that how used himself how? He views his crimes how he views his his personality. Choices, it's not about whether. This is right or wrong or good or bad, or did he do it, or did he not do it? It's about how does he view himself? And how does his perception of himself affect his choices that he makes, and it's and it? It helps to know like that's why this was a long cut to include. It showcases his Mo. how he loved to game the system. A former friend explained Bundy was watching a news report about one of his murders and this was. was before he was caught, and he bragged to his friend there right there. He said that he would know how to get away with killing someone. He explained you pick the woman up in one county. Throw away her clothes in another and leave her body in another county, because different counties would mean law enforcement was less likely to talk with one another, and so that he was so right. I mean we've seen this hour. Cases covered up until this point anything that happened before. Let's say two thousand. Chances are very good at the agencies. We're not talking to each other. Yes, and up. Until this point his Mo and the police are not making the connections to one suspect or person of interest in all these murders. That will change in July, Nineteen, seventy four. When Bundy's compulsions are ramping up and would lead to mistakes so every summer. There's a fun event on the shores of Lake. Sammamish state park which is really close to Taylor Mountain, folks, young and old would gather to play games and have fun. Bundy was there for a different reason trolling for young women to sexually assault torture and murder this time he had his arm in a sling, pretending to be injured and needed help loading his sailboat onto his vehicle. So, in separate incidents, Janice ought and Denise Naslund were. From Lake, Sammamish State Park. He was a cunning Schemer, but he made mistakes in this brazen killing of two young women at Lake managed between the hours of ten am and four thirty PM. When police investigated, they talked to someone who heard Janice ought say hi, I'm Jan and the preppy looking man with a distinctive sling shorts and button-down shirt replied. Hi, I'm Ted, so he gave his real name. The last time she was seen was pushing her bike as he walks alongside her, so witnesses are now able to give a composite sketch, and the man's car is a Tan Volkswagen bug. Each lead has to be followed. Every phone call has to be made mostly. Some out with a speck of information that may someday help clear up the mystery of the whereabouts of genocide. And Denise Naslund so. This is a cut from ABC, and what's really intriguing and I don't want to say great, but they finally have people and leads to chase down and try to figure out. What happened, they still haven't connected these two crimes to the other women, but they at least have a situation where they can start piecing together some pieces here. I also think it's interesting that he killed two women relatively same place same time. It's like he wants people to figure out that he's a serial killer. Because if you just had killed one woman at Lake Sammamish, likely the police again would. Would think this is a one off. Maybe not connected with any other cases I think it's both it's two things. He's both brazen and thinks he's smarter than everybody. Yeah, and to he is becoming unhinged with his compulsions. It's all he thinks about he's you know he's getting further away from this dual life. He's two sides of a coin. He knows how to pretend, but now these lives are. Splitting you know he can't control it like he did. And in an interview later when Bundy was asked about the murders of Ott and Naslund, he told investigators that ought was still alive when he kidnapped Naslund and one was forced to watch as he murdered the other. There's something about the idea of like him wanting to get caught. Yeah, real secret. He wants to see how close to the edge. He can get pull back like how close can I get to them figuring out? It's me without actually being caught. You know, but that's going to be his downfall. I mean the thing for sure right there that I keep hearing that I'm wondering about is he keeps using. Using this VW bug serial killer one. Oh, one switch things up, so they don't connect your crimes. And here he is using the same vehicle over and over and over again so in September of one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, four, the body parts of ought, and NASLUND and Hawkins are recovered two miles from Lake Sammamish in a wooded area after the Spanish killings Bundy knew he wanted to keep killing young women, he would need to move to another state where they weren't looking for a suspect named Ted who drove a VW bug, so he moves to Utah and guess what happens fall of Nineteen, seventy, four, Bundy Anders, the University of UTAH. Law School and in October. October of that same year Bundy Murdered Melissa Smith and Laura Amy in November of Nineteen, seventy four. He's messes up again. He tries to abduct Carol Ranch from a shopping mall and here is a newscast explaining what happened during that time Carol Garage parked a car and this parking lot at the fashion mall shortly after began what she now calls her personal nightmare bundy posing as a police officer approaches a young garage. He tells her that they've apprehended. A suspect was trying to break into her car. He said they would have to go down to the main. Murray Police Department to sign a complaint. The ranch entered the abductors car. She jumped out of the car the. The man jumped out waiting. What looked like a crowbar? She broke loose ran to the street, flagged down a passing car, and an elderly couple drove ranch to the Murray police station. The search for her doctor began. It's so funny the style of it you can tell what era is he just kind of cool I mean well. It was from a different time. People are not used to these types of crimes back then they have described it so much in Washington. Has Seattle in Washington was known. It's like no crime matter where they've wrong. How many serial killers did we have under wraps that we didn't know about? Yeah, yeah, but there's still this. These are shocking. And then again back to his obsession, he fails to get killed ranch and then that same day. He abducts Debbie Kent From Her School and Bountiful and kills her. But botching the abduction of Ranch Utah is now looking for Durant kidnapper. They don't know anything about Ted Bundy they, but she does have a description, and of course the car did he call himself Ted again. She didn't even get that far. Okay, yeah, I don't think I don't think so, but can I. Put out there to that like if you're a detective looking to help somebody out. You're probably not driving a VW bug, but we'll, and that's what she said the way she did smell his breath, which made her suspicious, but then when she saw his car, she was like Oh. He's undercover. So these things that we knew to kind of like our hackles are raised, but we kinda talk. Try to talk ourselves out of it. We don't. Think that people are that evil, or we WANNA see the best in people a lot of times we'll yeah, and and I think he was so quick about it the second she was in his car and they were driving and she was like. Hey, wait a second. The police stations over there. He's starting to try to handcuff her and there's no door handle I. mean they were up against a seasoned killer by this point? The abduction of Durant Utah is now looking for her attempted abductor. Bundy looks for victims in a new killing field trolling ski resorts in Colorado. Where of course he's going to fit in okay, but a VW bug is like the worst vehicle to use at ski resorts in Colorado Yes, but he's GonNa fit right in, and there's people from all different states that come to ski resorts, and he's just gonNA slide right in right under the the you know the radar in March, Nineteen seventy-five. He abducts Karen Campbell from a hotel in Aspen Colorado. Her body is found a month later in February so now March, nineteen, seventy five Bundy abducted and killed a ski instructor named Julie Cunningham from Vail Colorado. was never found. April nineteen seventy five Bundy killed Denise Lynn Oliver Son from Grand Junction Colorado. He said he left her body in the Colorado River, but but she was never recovered, may nineteen seventy five bucks kidnapped and drowned Lynette. Don Culver his youngest victim twelve in a bathtub, then later said he discarded her body in the Snake River and her remains have never been found I. do want to point out that Grand Junction and Vail. The Ski Resorts are several hours away from each other. So he is in his driving. And? He supposed to be in law school at this time and so there notably, he's like missing a lot of school and gets warnings that hey you know you're gonNA fail. My Class I'M NOT GONNA. Let you take the test. And he goes in Chm uses the his law professor, and so he goes back to Utah in between to take these classes Oh. Yeah, he's still. He's still at the university on striving. Yes, he's driving obsessing. He's like a shark so June. Nineteen seventy five, he kidnaps and kills Susan Curtiss Fifteen, and she was at Byu at a youth. Youth conference I mean she's in middle school in July nineteen, seventy five, he abducts and Kills Shelly Robertson from Golden Colorado three days later he abducts and Kills Nancy Barrick from Layton Utah, but on August Sixteenth nineteen seventy five bucks. Luck runs out Utah Police Sergeant Bob Hayward notices. Bundy's Tan nineteen. Sixty eight Volkswagen parked outside of a home at three am and Sergeant Hayward knew there were two young women that live there. When Hayward Approach Bundy took off like a bat out of hell, and of course sergeant hayward gave chase eventually pulling him over and after a brief struggle. He made a chilling discovery while searching that car earlier. You'd asked me about what he does and how he does it. The passenger seat was out of Bundy's car, so it was gone and he's like what's up with your passenger seat and he's like Oh. You know it's broken, so he had removed it completely, and he saw that Bundy, and he did not know this, but his kill kit, which was there which included an icepick handcuffs, a ski mask pantyhose with holes cut for the an is in a mouth. Gloves rich sheet flashlight trash bags I mean it was just like a horrible scene. It's like a serial killers. Yeah, it's as being intricate. It's hard to believe that. The sergeant didn't put those pieces together, or did he well they started to. He brought Bundy in for evading for evading arrest, but he got bailed out the next day, but unable to shake bad experience hayward. Talk to the sheriff who happened to be his brother. Then they talked to detectives who thought Bundy and his VW sounded familiar. And you know they starting to put the pieces together. They reach out to Washington state where they found out. That bundy or Ted was on a shortlist of suspects for murders in Washington, and that the murders had coincidentally stopped when bundy relocated to Utah, so in October, nineteen, seventy-five Bundy was identified in a lineup by Carol garage the one that got away he was arrested and charged with aggravated kidnapping and attempted criminal assault. He was held in Salt Lake County jail, but he gets out of bail and in February thousand, nine, hundred, ninety six. He Kills Debbie Smith and Utah. And here Bundy is in the spotlight for the first time in his trial so up until this point. He's maintaining this double life. Although it's teetering toward, you know his obsessions and he's still in law school. He's still in law school. Yeah, but during this trial for the kidnapping attempt of of garage he comes out and talks the media, and he's like a pompous prince wrongly accused. How do you feel about the justice system based on your? Real I'm sure it works. You've gotTA. Have faith it'll worker lsu deal be reduced to some kind of you. Know Mumbling, idiot I believe it works I believe it needs to be improved when you mentioned improvements. Does that mean ultimately you want to get involved in the criminal justice. Yes I intend to complete my legal education and become a lawyer and Be a damn good lawyer. He's like this preening. Prima, Donna, he's laughing at everyone. He's laughing at the system. He's laughing at the sergeant and everyone who's trying to put him behind bars. He's laughing at his victims. It just to me feels like he is laughing at the entire world, but he's getting away with US fortunately. Bundy insisted on testifying on his own behalf and came across surprise surprise as an arrogant asshole. And, he was convicted of never a truer word, so he was convicted of the kidnapping charge on March, first he was sentenced to a minimum of one to a maximum of fifteen years in Utah State prison, but this was just the beginning as I said before Washington Colorado and Utah were getting on the same page, and the consensus was that Bundy was looking good for all the murders that were going on of young women, but how to prove it. One WAY COMBING THROUGH HIS VW Utah investigators found hairs around the stick shift of the Volkswagen. Of Victims From Colorado and Utah which gave them enough. For them to file charges against him on October. Nineteen seventy six now, this was before DNA though So, how were they able to connect the hair to the victims? Was it just like a type matching was like type matching whatever they had to say. Yeah, this is the wasn't DNA, but it was enough to say yes. Hairs belong to. It was probably that plus other circumstantial. The kill the cat joke. It's probably one of those where they could prove. He was in the area. They could prove. That hair, just kind of was the tipping point of Oh. Yeah, okay, slightly the tipping point, and it was enough for them to file charges on the first degree murder of Karen. Campbell and he was transferred to Colorado. In January nineteen, seventy, seven, Bundy was transferred to Aspen. And remember in the kidnapping case in Utah he had an attorney representing him, but in Colorado. He was assisting in his defense, which gave him access to the law library that was upstairs, and the judge ordered that he was free to use the library, and was not to be shackled or handcuffed. Essentially, he was free to move about, and he escaped in June nineteen, seventy seven. He literally jumped out of the second story window. Of the courthouse. On June Thirteenth Nineteen, seventy seven. Bundy is caught in Aspen. Over the next six months he start losing a bunch of weight, but he scheming again. It's not because he feels guilt for what he's done. He scheming to escape sitting in his jail cell. He realizes that if he removes the ceiling light, and if he loses enough weight, he can actually fit through. So, he makes his way through the crawlspace to the jailer's apartment near his cell, he jumps down into the the apartment. Knowing that the you know, the jailer isn't going to be there. He puts on regular clothes and escapes and had a twelve hour lead before they realized he was in the wind. Talk about all the things that we've talked about before about how he has obsessions. He was wanted to do whatever he wanted to. Because he could have dropped off the face of the earth, but he chose not to do that. He boarded a plane flew to Chicago then he took a train to Ann Arbor Michigan and then for the next leg of the journey he stole a car and drove to Atlanta and then took a bus to Tallahassee Florida. He signed a rental agreement at a building, called the oaks, and began his next reign of terror that he would later refer to as his barbaric state within two months while on the run, he would attack five people murdering three of them. On January Fifteenth Nineteen Seventy eight three M. Bundy, crept inside the Chi Omega. Sorority house near Florida State. He savagely beat and strangled Margaret. Bowman and Lisa lead to death Karen and Chandler and Kathy Kleiner suffered severe injuries after he bludgeoned them while they slept, but they survived on that same day Bundy broke into the apartment. Of Cheryl. Thomas, a student, at Fsu, and he attacked her Bundy took off when her roommate's heard noise and called out to her when she didn't answer, they called police and Thomas survived. The attack but Bundy was in the wind again. On, February. Ninth Nineteen Seventy Eight. He abducts twelve year old Kimberly, Leach from her school in Lake City Florida Leach was one of Bundy's youngest victims. It was his last murder. On February fifteenth, Nineteen Seventy Eight. He is pulled over by the Pensacola police officer sees a man at one thirty, a m driving a stolen Volkswagen in Pensacola. He what he went back to the bus. Ie. Him and the bugs. I. Don't know but obviously. I know it's like one of the. It's like a compulsion. He can't help himself. I mean obviously, but it's funny that that would be one of his compulsions. Yeah, so they take him into. Custody was at Tan. Okay, but for the next two days Bundy refuses to give his name, and they don't know who they're dealing what they have. NO IDEA I mean we're talking. Florida's not whole Mo, they even have fingerprinting at this point, yeah! I think so. Yeah. They're gonNA eventually. Figure out. It's him even if he doesn't yeah, finally he gives his name as Theodore Robert, Bundy and he's probably all like you know just cocky as hell and just thinks he's so great, but in short order the Florida police would find that Bundy. Only a week earlier had been put on there. The FBI's ten most wanted list. And interesting again we see Ted. Bundy's Deatrich in July of nineteen seventy eight when he's in custody and it was just a really weird exchange like bundy comes out of the elevator, and he doesn't have any handcuffs on or anything like that, and he stands like right by the sheriff, as the Sheriff read the indictment and the Chi Omega murders. It's just weird. We Kim with. Invite! Onto Religion, aren't you? Ain't got into. The bond told me that told him you're going to get me. You said he was GonNa get okay you've got the indictment. Is All you'RE GONNA get? Three to go. Theodore Robert Bounding. Charged indictment counts burglary to counts murder in the first degree. Three counts attempted murder in the first degree. Vine intent to affected out the Fed lethally my chance to talk to the press contrary to section seven eighty, two more batch it. I'll plead not guilty right now. Yeah, wow, yeah, it was really bizarre. Wouldn't the sheriff be like? Get him out of here. I think that I think that was everybody's question. Even during that during that time like, why would you why? Why would you do this? I mean it just didn't really make sense, but again so many things about Ted Bundy and what he's allowed to do and gets away with could be also that the sheriff knows Bundy's. GonNa make an ass out of himself and wants the whole world to see this guy for who he truly is. I don't know, I mean th. That's a that's a cop is half full. Yeah, I. Mean I feel like you've probably got game to by Bundy as much as I hate to say it. I don't want to give him any credit, but I mean it just makes them both look like what so Bundy went on trial for two counts of first degree murder. As you heard this time. He's representing himself and this is where it just gets, so we'll for a client. Yeah, and it's it's. It's strange because he's referring to himself in the third person calling himself Mr Bundy. Watching court videos from that time, it's surreal. He's like prancing around court talking to the judge like he's a seasoned lawyer wearing tweed jacket a button down shirt, deep blue. It's a deep blue shirt. The kind with a huge lapels over a white. Seattle Mariner sweater. It's sort of playful. Not I guess to his Washington routes. I mean he's not acting like I mean these are serious crimes that you know or have major consequences. There's the death penalty in Florida. There's not the death penalty in Washington like why he chose to go and. And murder there I mean some have to wonder. Why was earlier? It's his connection with Florida I. Don't know so the other thing that I've been thinking about as you've been. Sharing the information about his behavior is the fact that he did have that degree in psychology. I wonder if there's something to the the idea that if you act like somebody who is guilty of these crimes, you're more likely to be found guilty, whereas if you act like this is so ludicrous. There's no way that I did these things. Maybe people would buy into that. Maybe that's why he was acting so strangely and. flippant about the charges I think it's all with his dynamic that we've seen all along before. If, you, look at that, and there weren't all these heinous crimes that he's now. People are like Yeah I. He could have done I mean for a long time. There's so many people that knew him that were like. There's no way that he did this. Even though they talked about Ted with a with Tan Volkswagen, so many people in Washington new, there's a Ted with Volkswagen. They still couldn't believe that so many Volkswagen's today there was it. It was like his persona was larger than life. Well, another twist in this very twisted case is how many women would flock to the trial addressed to the nines and many dressed as his type. Because by this time he is like a media sensation. Everybody's talking about it. They know that he has a predilection for women with long hair Brown. Hair parted down the middle with hoop earrings, and there's a name for this bizarre phenomenon. It's called. Failure and was interesting here is he ended up proposing to one of his fans Karel? Boone and she came to testify on his behalf as a character witness. So He's says do you WanNa marry me, yes, do I wanNA marry you. Yes, and what is the last question? And he said something and I really do I do really do? WanNa marry. You. Wow, that's so romantic, so even more. Another you know they're not supposed to be able to have sex? According to you know because he is a suspect and it has escaped twice. Yeah, but at some point they end up consummating their marriage, and she conceived a child name Rose Bundy during one of her visitations. How would you like to be that child? I you know what I mean I changed my name. I'm sure she does. I mean what a legacy to give your kid. You want to go on to have your life, but it's like you can't be president. You can't be you know. There's so many things that are preordained I mean they could be. Society wouldn't let them. That's the thing. It's going back to the taboo of it. Your Dad's a serial killer. Could any of that have been passed along to you? Because if there's even a possibility, no one's going to want to have anything to do with you. Yeah, yeah, so it's interesting though I thought you'd like this one of Bundy's attorneys, former attorneys, John, Henry Browne, which yes. Yes so he's a prominent Seattle attorney who briefly worked with Bundy and he described Bundy's folly, and taking the stand as a fatally narcissistic miscalculation in his book the Devil's defender. Quote Ted believed he could lie has way out of anything and could charm. The judge writes Brown. He was wrong so what we were talking about earlier. Why was he doing this? Why was he acting all flippant and like you know leaning into his like? Than Life Personas good boy, next door, kind of thing, good natured guy and I never do these horrible things. Yeah, so in May nineteen, seventy-nine Bundy actually rejected a plea deal that would have allowed him to avoid the death penalty if he admitted to murdering Bowman Levin and Leach. He didn't take it I think he thought that he could get somehow. Get Away with it. On July? Twenty, fourth nineteen seventy-nine, and later in February nineteen, eighty to Florida juries would convict Bundy. Counts of first degree murder and later he was convicted for another first degree charge for murder of the Levy Bowman and leach murders before he was sentence. The judge asked if he wanted to say anything. About asking for mercy. Pr- I find it somewhat. Absurd! Ask Mercy for something I, did not do. So I will be tortured for and will suffer for. And receive a pain for that. But. Share the. He is the victim here. And fortunately he didn't get mercy. Citing this average jury of the crimes and Bundy's callous attitude scored independent of but in agreement with. If I ever sentence rendered by the jury is hereby imposed only. Upon the defendant. Theodore Robert Bunn. Then in a shocking statement, the same judge Edward Coward added this. Young Man, thank you. SAY THAT! It's a tragedy for this to see such a total waste. Humanity that I've experienced in this court year. BRIGHT YOUNG MAN! You may have good lawyer. I'd love to head you. Practice in front of. You want another way. That's disgusting and disturbing and I almost feel like that judge should be disbarred for showing any sense of humanity to somebody who's committed such awful crimes. I understand his way of thinking and why he might have had those thoughts, but it's totally inappropriate to express them out loud especially in a public setting where there's recording happening just so inappropriate so disrespectful to the victims and their families yeah, incredible, well the fact that he even though he'd seen all the evidence in everything had been charmed by Bundy. I mean that's basically what happened there. Even after everything that he'd seen I think the judge may have been a little bit like me where he wants to understand how bunny became this person when he was a smart guy when he was. You know kind of an all American kid. I mean that's where I had to stop you earlier in it because I'm normally like so with you on that like trying to understand why people do what they. They do but in this particular case after getting beginning to end and listening to the cuts and listening and listening in this case, it's more of like. How can we stop this but I don't there was no way of stopping it right? And there's a time and a place for that kind of reflection. The courtroom immediately after he convicted is not the time and or the place every time I hear that. Why would he say that I would love to go back and deal to ask him, but he's probably not around anymore. No probably not okay, so bundy finally starts admitting to stuff trying to save his own neck so while on death row. Bundy gives a series of interviews and he reached out to other serial killers. He wanted to get pen pals. He even contacted I don't know if you'll remember this, but when we did the green. River killer case contacted detective record at the time, who then later became the king? County Sheriff and ultimately caught Gary Ridgway. But anyway he reached out to him and said that he could help him catch the river man like he, you know. Reichert would later describe that he felt like you know Bundy was almost like jealous of the attention that the Green River killer was getting I could also see where he might want to try to get a hold of some of the crime scene evidence, some of the pictures and things so that he could live vicariously through this person who was still going out committing crimes murders very similar to what? What he would do, but one of the things that was interesting that he he really recommended that the King County Sheriff's office stakeout one of the places where they found the bodies, because he was sure that ridgway would go back or the Green River killer, because they didn't know who it was at the time would go back and gauge Necrophilia, and it's interesting because during that time when he's trying to bargain for his life and talking to different investigators, and he explains the necrophilia part which he engaged in. Bed the next day because those three days later to do that the business. About there. was sort of a crude attempt to disguise identity densification of the remains such I don't know what it wasn't. Retrospect it doesn't it sounds pretty incoherent, but that's. Motivating you. and then. Maybe about a week to two weeks later went bad for. Again just to see what was going on. But of course after you know in June after a week, it's you know what with all the local. Wildlife, there's not much. Left. You know a lot of psychological stuff going on here that we just don't have time for I. Mean we just different days explaining? This is why I am so keen on the sticking out of crime scenes this type. Fascination with the. Sea wouldn't come right out and say what he was doing to the bodies. He has to control how he shares it the. Right, now I know it over going back after a week or more after this person's been murdered, left out in the wild, who knows what animals have come along and take bits and pieces. I just it's shocking to me that he would still be interested in wanting to go back to the crime scene because I'm sure it happened more than once that he did this Oh. Yeah, so he knew going in what it would look like, and he still wanted to go back and be a part of that. Yeah, it's just it's mind blowing me. Yeah I mean I. think that that's why he wants to control it because he knows that nobody's going to really understand except for someone like a ridgeway. You know and that's why he can tell some of it to get attention. You know he's got. He's GonNa talk a little bit to keep people interested in him and you know he doesn't want to confess to these things. It's a way to try to get him off the hook of this upcoming. He's in Florida, but he's trying to save his neck, so he starts talking more. January twenty first nineteen eighty-nine over the course of several days, Bundy confesses to multiple agents from different agencies. He tells the FBI agent Bill Hag Meyer. He's killed thirty people in California Oregon Washington Idaho, Utah, Colorado, and Florida between nineteen, seventy, three in one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy eight, but by you know January twenty third. It's not changing the course that's already happening. He's had a couple of stays of execution, which bought him a little bit more time, but time has has run out in his last interview the night before his. His execution, he spoke with Doctor James Dobson and is going all out for a Hail Mary, because you got to remember, two of the stays of execution happened, one was fifteen hours before, and the other was like seven hours, so he's really still not doing this for the victims. He's still doing this. I mean from from my point of view himself. He's still thinks he's got a shot down another stay, so he doesn't. He says he doesn't want to die, but pornography was a factor in what made him what he was. Trying to tell you is honestly as I know how what happened think. This, is a message to get across, but as a young. A young boy and I mean the boy of. Twelve or thirteen certainly. That I encountered outside the home again In. The local grocery store or the local? Drugstore the softcore pornography. What people call softcore? but as I think I, explained to you last night, thought adoption. An anecdote is young boys. Do we explore the? The back roads and sideways and byways of our neighborhood, and oftentimes people don't. The garbage in whatever they're cleaning out of their house and Fontana time we come across, so he's like we. He's like normalising it. Who comes across pornographic books and they were looking for l., but even if you're looking for it, it's. Just dump on the side of the road. Apparently, he had a neighbor things I did lieutenant magazines. More involved violence. Yes, yes, and I and this is something I. Think I want to emphasize the the the the most damaging. Kinds of pornography in my again. I'm talking from personal experience. hard real personal experience. Most damaging kinds of pornography are those that involve violence in sexual violence. Because the wedding, those two forces as an Italian, though only too well brings up behavior that is just. Is just. Too. Terrible to describe, now walk me through that. What was going on in your mind at that thought okay before we go any further I think it's important to me. and. The people people believe what I'm saying to tell you that that I'm not blaming. Pornography and not saying that it caused me to go out and do certain things and I take certain things if whatever I've done. Not The question here. The question and and and the issue is how this kind of literature contributed and helped mold and shape the kinds of violent behavior. Feel you're. In the beginning at fuels, this kind of Thought, process then. At a certain time, it's instrumental in what I would say. Crystallizing it making into something, which is almost like a separate entity inside. And that that point you're Virgil I was at the verge of acting out on this on this kind of. These kinds of really won't understand that. You had gone about as far as you could go in your own fantasy life with printed material. And you made or printed and video or Film. Is What happened? And and then there was the urge to take that little step or big step over to physical. Happens it happened in stages gradually. It doesn't necessarily not to me at least happened overnight my experience with. A say pornography generally, but with pornography the deals on a violent level with sexuality. is it. Once, you become addicted to it and I look at this kind of addiction. Like other kinds of addiction of addiction, you keep I would keep looking for. More potent more explicit most Greg. Of Material like an addiction, he craving something, which is harder, okay? Can we just be done? Can't even listen to him anymore. It's so ridiculous. He is basically. Picking and choosing things from psychology, textbook, and molding them to his situation to try and convince psychiatrists psychologists that will certainly. Hit on the head and that's really. Why wanted these longer cuts because? You can see where he loses it, and that protective coding, or whatever of him controlling the narrative, trying to sound like he's intelligent trying to woo the person he's talking to. And, it's like a part of that toxic manipulation that he was so well known for he's still manipulating. The other thing I noticed is that he is trying to compartmentalize the part of his personality who is D- that deviant as not really being him, not really who he truly is ask this deviant part of his personality that is is like separate, so I can see his thought process of will. You can't kill me. I didn't really do this. It's this deviant side of me that I don't really like that. I wish I didn't have that. I want to get rid of. Please help me get. In the earlier cut where he was draw describing Hawkins how he went about murdering her. He describes it as being a fever. Wasn't he's a few state. He's not in the driver's seat. I absolutely is in the driver's seat. So as you can imagine outside the Florida prison were bundy would be executed. There was a huge huge media present detailing the execution from outside the prison. Step by step. What was happening when people showed up, they signed a release war. You know a release form and eighty. You got into the van. We're driven the whole. Have you done that knows a reporter know-how? Yeah. Who can you know which terrible is I? Don't even remember who it was. I'm sure you blocked it out. Probably I was working as a reporter in Colorado Okay and went to. You know one of their maximum security prisons where there was an execution happening in was part of that media. Will that just kind of is right outside as the execution is taking place? It's a bizarre feeling like we're sitting here waiting for someone to die. Yeah, and here is they were coming out. You know they'd have people from the prison coming out talking about you know the next step you know his last meal, I? Don't think he even eight I don't i. don't know what he ordered, but he did whatever it was. He didn't eat it. But this is them talking about prepping for the execution. Be Correctional officers with them right now there'll be preparing him for execution. They should begin shaving his head, and so forth within a few minutes. It's really Modlin it's very procedural. That's that's the way they delivered it in. My experience was just very procedural, because he can't get into the emotion it the humanization of the person who is being. The crowds that were out there. They were not I mean if he was out there. They ripped him to shreds the thousands of people, but on January twenty fourth nineteen eighty-nine he was executed in the electric chair, known as Old Sparky at seven sixteen am. Cheers erupted from most of the crowd. Win The when the announcement was made. To my family and friends that was it and then they put a black hood or black Put over his head, avail and He was electrocuted off to your left. You could see hooded executioner. You can only see. The is little slit in the wall on the left hand side of the room and you just see the eyes peering out, and the a nod is given to the executioner, and he's executed his speaking kind of Lurch back in his chair, his fiscal went back like that seemed maybe they gave him two thousand volts for a minute, or so, and as the crowd roared its approval Ted Bundy, and the people who waited so long to see him dead, said their final goodbyes. I mean there are people out there with like frying pans and I didn't get it and I'm like Oh frying like. Big I was like no. Frying Pan have you heard the story about old sparky. When I heard, it sounded so familiar, and that's why included in there, but what do down Let's just say it wasn't the best piece of women always work properly. Yes, there were times people had to be electrocuted multiple times, and I believe there were some times wearing even accidentally sent sparks out yet. On Fire Yeah I caught fire and hit some of the employees who were there, so it got its nickname for a recent so I. Love the fact that you know he had to go. That was the perfect way for him to go right so Bundy was forty two. And he was gone obviously, but his evil deeds, and the effects on the family's lives on I included this cut, because it's from Bundy's former law professor at the University of Utah and he shared his experience of meeting he in this interview, he would say oh well, students would always come up to me during one his law lessons and say hey. Wasn't Ted Bundy. After one of these experiences where he talked about you know what it was like having. Ted Bundy as a student. After everybody left the classroom, a student came up to him, and who said that his sister was a victim of Ted Bundy! Somber look on his face, and he said that one of the victims was evidently his sister she had disappeared. During the time young women disappearing and that evidently Ted Bundy had killed her. Her body was never found course I sympathize straightly with him and I ask you. Do you ever get over a thing like that and he's known my family still. Is Very much disturbed by the fact, not only that she's gone, but that we. Could never find her body the victims. Feel these things for many years after. That happens I'm very sympathetic to them. So, there's no knowing just how many women Bundy murdered on the night before his execution, he admitted that his total might reach into triple digits. He reportedly replied. At one digit to that and you'll have it. was He being sarcastic or did he mean thirty seven murders? Or did he mean a hundred and thirty six murders? Or did he mean three hundred sixty murders? That's an rule I think. She's reading from her book. And did those murders include poor, precious and Marie Maribor. Her mother wrote a letter to Bundy three years before he was executed, just begging for an answer, did he? Did he kill? Her daughter! Dear Ted. On August thirty, first nineteen, sixty one just before school was to start for you and our children. There came a black rainy night with lots of the heavy winds. You were fifteen and had been wandering the streets late at night and peeping in windows and taking cars. I feel your first murder was our Ann Marie Burr? The bench from the backyard was used to climb in the living room. The orchard next door was dark setting for a murder. What did you do with the tiny body? God can forgive you with all appeals likely to be refused and soon there is nothing left for you in this world. There can still be everything good for you in the next. Your life started wrong somewhere. When you were very young, there had to be a lot of bad things. Happen to make you have your strong feelings of Patriot. I came close to ruining my life because of my cruel actions, and feeling no sorrow about them, a lot of strange circumstances brought help to me or I would not have found myself even though I knew I needed help. And my actions were getting out of control. You should have received that same help when you needed it. God can still give the help to you. If you can gather together any strength, you have left and try to feel a real sorrow inside for the horrors. You have brought so many. You will face these scorer alone if there's no chance to be with God after you die. You have nothing more to lose in this world by explaining your sickness, you will feel sorrow and gain everything in the next life, as God promised you and all of us. Please? Try. There isn't much time. I am deeply sorry. You did not get help when you needed it. I have not written until now because the end of life for you did not seem near until now. Will you right back to me regarding Anne Marie? And his response was just so. He responded though I'm a little bit surprised that he even did that much. Quote again and finally I did not abduct your daughter I had nothing to do with her disappearance. But, he also told investigators when questioned about burs, disappearance that that he wouldn't hurt a little girl and denied involvement in nineteen eighty-seven. Bundy confided to law enforcement that there were some murders that he would never talk about because they were committed to close to home to close to family or involved victims who were very young burs. Disappearance matched all three of these categories. Bundy was never arrested or charged with any of his Washington Oregon Colorado or Utah murders, but because of its coma cold case detective working the Ann Marie Burr case his DNA got put into the system. It wasn't even in this system and so cloyd kind of talks about how that amazing facts came to light. It's not in the state of Washington Data Bank, because he was never convicted of a felony and say to Washington even though. He confessed all these murders it. It's just a glitch in the law that that he was formally charged with the murder in Washington, so they couldn't put it in watching quotas data bank, but Lindsay when she was working for Tacoma PD because she was looking into the emery case, she contacted Florida the prison where he was executed, and if they had blood samples or something, and they did, they had a card or something. With his blood on it, so she asked them if they could have it submitted for DNA, they did, and so it's in the national data bank now, but which is good work on her. Because otherwise he would not be in any COTA system if it wasn't for that. I find it incredible that he was never brought to justice for the crimes. He committed here in Washington. State though I, know I mean that that's where it all started. That's where so many of his victims were left and I understand that he was already looking at the death penalty in Florida, but so often when there are cases that cross state boundaries, they will still prosecute because they want the families of the victims here to get their day in court to have justice served, and it's just really sad that that never happened while I know and that he wasn't even put his DNA wasn't. Wasn't even put into the KOTAS when technology caught up to like. Hey, we can find out what happened with these other murders. One thing though that is really interesting speaking of DNA I asked Cloyd because you and I always love talking about this. If in the future we would be able to tell if there's a psychopath marker hard question to answer because there's a big argument. Is it nature or nurture right so I mean if it's if it's nature, then, yes, if it's nurture than no, but they've. They're doing a lot of study right now about psychopaths and trying to detect psychopathic personalities. A friend of mine, WHO's a Canadian is criminologist and he was doing a study on certain personality traits that show up in psychopaths, and so he did all these different studies on these different groups of known psychopaths I know not to be psychopaths and one of his assistants. who was doing the analyzing said. What do you think of this guy and they have some kind of chart you? That's definitely psychopath. He goes. That's you. What so he had all the psychopath markers, but he wasn't a psychopathic oh. Maybe you starts out with a propensity, but there has to be that little. Push to make you become a psychopath, so that really amazed him and I thought was fascinating, too, but you know the thing about DNA. It's advanced more than two years in the previous twenty. So who knows yes? Yes, yes, and I love the way he put that you. You have a propensity, but it takes something to push you over the edge. Breed actually become a psychopath, and I wonder about the incest part of it now that we have his DNA, it's in the database. Have they thought about looking up or does it even say a daily matter? It was cleared with all ready to do. It's just that the the the one funding the test because I'm sure these are really expensive tests. And they decided to go a different route that whatever show they were putting together. Because as we know so often, the victims get the shaft, which is why I wanted to really include all the names of the victims that I. could because the serial killers are the ones that we talk about them and the victims get forgotton anyway I think that that particular series that he was working on? They decided to talk about the victims, and so they didn't. Didn't pursue that, but yeah I mean it's totally available to do. And he was employed was ready to do it. They just didn't want to find somebody with deep pockets. I'm really curious and I know the state's not going to they with the bill for that data Bain and honestly I get it. What's the point right like? It doesn't really change the outcome of. Of the case at this point, and plus you know budgets are super tight right now, so I wouldn't expect any kind of agency to put money into doing any kind of testing on that DNA at this point, but man if there was somebody out there who has deep pockets. He's think about all the different. The FBI behavioral unit all the data that they collect. Collect! It just goes to reason that they would. This would be one of the things that they'd want to find out like one of the most prolific horrible serial killers and our nation's history. Yeah, was there incest? What? What's his background? You know that's not just one factor, but like yeah, it'd be interesting to know and as Cloyd said he's not the first one. Cloyd said that I. Don't know if you caught that in the interview. He's not the first one meaning like. One to have been a product of incest turned serial killer. Yeah, I think that's I. Don't know if that he kinda referred to, and I just didn't go there, but I think that call cloyd back. Another. Excuse to call. Our favorite. Take any excuse. We can get all right. So what's up for next week? Imagine finding out that the man you going. GonNa marry was wanted for murder. Not just anymore, but a heinous despicable, disgusting violent crime. That doesn't sound anything like the man that you know. We'll find out how that one ends next week. And don't forget to check out the crime podcast dot com to get more information on all of the stories that we share with you, photos, links and lots more I'm Caroline Soriano with Kim. Shepard and this is the scene of the crime.

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Episode Eleven

Le Batard & Friends - Mystery Crate

32:57 min | 2 years ago

Episode Eleven

"Mystery crate is presented by ziprecruiter ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire craters we call mystery craters gall craters a creators or raters great and emcees. I call them saints last time 'cause. I said that they put up with so much from us where they turn it on. What's this about this this week so i said there were saints but i like craters better okay. Why are you here because dan amina were part of this episode and i felt left up. Don't make sure you check out my podcast. The meantime show featuring lenny which is on the levitan friends network so you're just here just because everybody else was here. Now you say when you tweeted out sir thanks to dan. Thanks thanks to guts here. That gotta get outta here. At is a good man. I made a contribution. I'm good yeah. Eric graders expensive expensively. You get paid for this. I am going to <hes> yeah. I'm going to invoice them for certain yup. I have thirty days to do so. How do we pretend that you like did this in new york or something worth while i had to go to new york because i had to do the mystery crate. Oh wait wait wait. This is a good plan moving forward moving forward here anytime i go on a vacation. Can you guys have me do something for mystery great on a friday and i'll expense the entire trip. We just call you up and i joined the show. Yeah like i'm going. I'm telling you towards the end of the summer going at the dana point in california one of my favorite places on the planet and what i'm gonna do friday is calling and be a very small part of the mystery create all right and then i'll expense the entire trip because i worked on friday that i feel like this is something you could think but you shouldn't say because then you're kinda snitching on yourself. That's a good point craters. What do you call craters. What was the other word saints <hes> the people like. I'm pretty sure when you die. You're good person you go. Go to heaven and you're a saint. I don't know exactly how it works. You don't need to worry about that right. Why i'm going to hell with our brawls. You guys have me go the hell l. really. I is there anything i could do between now and then two. Maybe three we get myself to i have it probably not going to hell good dad man somewhere in the middle ea- you have some shading you every shady thing i have done. I have done it for my kids. Yeah okay. That's it. Thank you chris. I don't know if that can be proven because you were doing shady stuff before your kids were alive though why wasn't all right so what's happening on the episode this week craters. It really is a good episode though it is brought to you by ziprecruiter. Hey hey guys hiring is challenging but there's one place you can go. Were hiring. Hiring is simple fast and smart a place where growing businesses connect to qualified candidates that place is ziprecruiter dot com slash create ziprecruiter send your job to over one one hundred of the web's leading job boards but hey they don't stop there with their powerful matching technology ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invites them to apply to your job as applications. Kamins ziprecruiter analyzes each one and spotlights the top candidates so you never miss a great match. Never that was my adler this week ziprecruiter so affected that four and five employers who post on ziprecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now mr create listeners ken try ziprecruiter for free at this exclusive web address ziprecruiter dot com slash create. That's ziprecruiter dot com slash c. r. a. t. e. ziprecruiter dot com slash great ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire all right meena mike dan take it away. Hello lou press unbutton now. I'm totally why oh. I'm sorry that's guy set loving. It's too loud to christ iced. Is it god that was awful all all right. I'll sit in there with them. Jeez yeah forget the tone down his headset as eh christ. He's deaf with everyone in that studio for my own. Mental health bottled water rates for the love of god replace it with another one. I'm the only person note that one out there and we'll have to come in here and bother anybody for bottled water. Where is there more water that red bull fridge which is for everybody else the only one that replaces the lottery in there and today. I'm trying to really clean open the fridge no water so finally after several years of taken that's going to take anymore. You take a bottle of water dirt. Give replace it with another comedies basic common decent. It's a return to traditional american values free. Mike build up that refrigerator refrigerator right. They're not talking about i. I gotta be honest. I was surprised to see anybody other than filling any anyone other within mike doing. It was confusing when i walked in here. This is the podcast bike ride opening the komo on. It's mystery cray guys. Obviously it's a big week in television history mina kimes dan le batard joining the mystery crate first time together. This is historic and what brings us together is the obvious thing big little lies the yellow b l l huge finale coming up this week huge developments for the monterey five. Everyone in this room is caught. Up has seen every episode of one of the greatest dramas finish it. How how do you finish it. When renault has meltdown at the end is even the best thing about the last episode. How do you finish this well. Rain isn't everyone's favourite territory worked arena just because it's so outsized and cartoonish so i wanna i wanna go at it with <hes> dan and meena here about big little lies but this is a spoiler warning for everyone that subscribes mystery crate. We're talking l._l. And we're talking all the way up to the most recent episode want any spoilers about this tremendous show with the greatest on somboon perhaps ever assembled this side of the event and merrill teeth. I just wanna say i admire this. Podcast commitment to alienating people google it. What are you talking about. This is hypnotizing. This show is wonderful. People are fixated right now on the idea that right not melted down what's going to happen. It's renova what's going to happen. It's laura dern franklin actors. I know him. I knew whether spohn i know kravitz his daughter. I don't like i actually power for for the sixers. I have this problem. We made a reese. Weatherspoon is what i did. That's what what just happened there. Oh boy. I is welcome because she is going to bring a storm in this next episode i it was really bummed that they deleted the scene of actually throwing ice cream and mary louise. Why did they do this so i have a theory as so why they deleted the scene and they're gonna have to help me. Please help me because i had not heard this part of it. I had not heard i saw a lot of people talking about a deleted ice cream scene but i don't know what that is so remember okay guys. I promise we'll work our way from the beginning to where we are now but we're talking right now about how mary louise <hes> almost got ice cream thrown at her by clarence weatherspoon. It's dan put it so there was a scene in which mary louise obviously says the one thing that everybody to agitate them. They pass each other by while <hes> <hes> madeline madeline mandoline madeline madeline well so it's actually a plot point in the show renata always calls her maddy line and in one one episode madeline complaints about it so madeleine's walking with her daughter down the street and they bump into mary louise mary louise goes. Oh this is the daughter that must be going off off to college which is obviously be l. L. fans no a silicon point. It's it's it's got a lot of baggage attached to it so she says the one thing and that's just the interaction as you see however there's a deleted scene or madeleine throw z. ice cream at mary louise after that it would be so great so there's still leaked on the internet before the show. Oh came out dan so fans be all super. Fans like us were extremely excited and then nothing happens on the show what what happened there. The what does anyone have. I have an explanation for that. Clip went no explanation only theories. Here's my theory so i think that <hes> obviously mary louise has been annoying not just the monterey honore five but everybody who is watching on their teller great now terrible mother-in-law character like i don. She is maddening. Yes she's absolutely maddening and no one's really gotten her yet and that i think would have been too much satisfaction. Yes too much satisfaction in that moment for the viewing audience well this leads us into the finale right because it's all building up potentially to this moment where someone finally gets her in pincer down and you're. I think you're right. It would have been to gratifying too much of an early release. Yes we're building up here in the eighth and final episode of this season for meryl streep absolutely what mommy because we're getting in about thirty minutes of meryl streep on the witness and more more on that in a second what drew you to this show from the very beginning. What were your favorite parts about it. We've already discussed her favorite characters <unk> but <hes> tell me about your passion for bell obviously the powerhouse cast this many actresses with this money awards never happened before in the history of television decision that kind of hardware. It's like a super team right. The monterey fives like the hampton five so if you ask me feel like it's really for though i feel like the fifth starters like it would be talking about jane. It's talking about that. You would have said bonnie. I mean well bonnie had the moment again. You guys are going to have to help me because i i'm cold kidman. I'm doing. I have not gotten transported into the character names. I laura dern crevices daughter. You're going to have to help me with the name of the character. I thought he was kind of a nothing burger in the preseason. This season in zoe kravitz has gotten a lot more material to to on if you i think it's a really really good like a really well written acted show. You don't usually see that. Many female actresses like in the same place coke edmonds a good actress so i do with one major which which is that it's not clear what accent she's. It's like when i try to do an actress. She slept in her own voice one time in indisputable it. She turns australia trillion when she gets really emotional. Why don't they just make the character australian. It's based on a book said australia that was set in australia. I i don't have these answers for nicole and don't have these answers dan. What do you do the show. We'll valerie. Drew me to the show your fiance. Yes and i thought that there i was only going to be one season. I thought the way season one ended was a respectful to the book but they just decided to throw meryl streep in there because it was popular and now she's stealing the thing because <hes> she's evil for those that don't know unicom's hosts a post big. Little lies live show. It's called big little live or the ringer and it's been that way after after every episode this season and touch on this in the last episode of big little alive as to why there was even a season two and i think it's really the demand and how much fun doing it. It was really because meryl streep agreed to do the show stands right and she's still. She is the katie of the monterey five she came in. She's gonna terror eric gillies in the finale. Wow this analogy perfectly the more. I think about it <hes> it. That's as far as i know that's why they did it like she washes. Show was like this is good. I'd like like to do it and she's never done television before. We agree that. Jane is sort of shaun livingston. You were downgrading or can we come. We just agree. Can we are kevon looney one. I mean just in terms of starpower gene season. One had such a good story line and the who done it really surrounded her character so season two though she has taken a who's gonna break. Who's who do you guys. One of them is going to break right so for those that don't know right there. They have this secret at the end of season one bonnie crabs his daughter is dan likes to put it. We could have just gone kravitz. <hes> bonnie pugh pushes the abusive kidman's husband down on some stairs skarsgard <hes> and she pushes him down the stairs in the monterey five agree. Nobody pushed anybody. He slept yes so they've been holding this now. The walls are closing in closing in. There's -tective that is on their asses collectively. Why i don't understand why they could say well not only really why did they live a why are these detectives committing so many resources to investigating wealthy women one of whom clearly was being abused by this dude because that's how little lies turn turn into big ones. That's how it happened. You don't even realize that it's the name of the show dancer questions so i i. I thought that renaldo is going to break out of self interest with the whole insider trading thing with your husband who i think she can leave in the last episode i no longer we're not as a real one. I don't think she's going to i don't. I don't think she's going to pray. I don't ever want her to leave that characters so great so many zingers i think it's gonna be madeline and i think it's going to be like a her throwing herself in front onta body to save her kind of situation like taking the heat somehow i think that's her sort of arc as a character did show her a little too much in the last episode was like staring at yes setting something up a big moment for her everyone right now sort of things bonnie kravitz his daughter mike crag just because of what's going on with their mom excellent cinematography dogra fee on bonnie explaining everything nor mom by the way bonnie. Why do you have a journal with all this evidence hanging around and not okay. It's television but the single teardrop the drop from her mother's mother. Comatose mother can't feel anything but there's a single dear when we focused around the corner because she has confessed s. The murder to her comatose mother nathan her bonnie's husband who's kind of a d. bag on this show say anything that guy's a shit worst i man he picks up the notebook with the evidence at the end. I don't know if you caught that. I didn't yeah i was. I was celebrating the fact that we were netting now. We're getting celeste lasts versus mary louise don't you want more student of the show stuff. There's probably stuff she seeing that we're not seeing yes so tie all these little things together because that was a huge revelation that you just dropped dropped on the mystery create right now what other things outside of the showdown between celeste mary louise should we look for in this finale. You wanna hear my big conspiracy theory. Okay so oh this there have been allusions. Throughout the show to harris streep's son perry had a brother perry's the abusive husband who died who was married to nicole kidman. The brother also died. I think that mary louise is somehow going to reveal on the stand that perry killed old his brother and she has known all along that he's a monster. What do you think i'd love to see it. It's it's it's a great theory. I can't get into the predictions fictions of knowing what's going to happen. I haven't studied these details like i haven't been looking at clues. I'm just sort of hey. The walls are closing in somebody's gonna break right. It's too obvious first vertu kravitz his daughter isn't it grinding the tape like me watching the all twenty two big little us. Mary louise obviously has skeletons in her closet really yeah and that's how we built crescendo with the last episode. I got so hyped this is. This is the mountain versus red viper. This is a battle of the basque. This is nicole nicole kidman in came strong there at the end. She's going into a extensively courtroom to argue our own case against the advice of everybody with her children's future on the line up to my fist when that happened good up off of my couch. What do you think the judge a judge's ruling was going to be. I think she was going to actually go in meryl streep's favor ever really yeah. I kinda god i kinda got the notion and you guys such on this once again. Big little live on the ringer in twitter <hes> at the ringer <hes> a post show where i kind of felt like seles and the judge had a moment there in which <hes> celeste handled the <hes> trying to uh explain how much better she's getting. This is all working her way towards it. I thought the interaction particularly why she didn't tell her therapist about all these sexual partners was was really good and honest and i thought they had some connection yeah. How did you guys react when you realize that the mother-in-law had a private investigator photographing autographing lovers that she was allegedly kidman was allegedly cheating not cheating after her husband's death. She was having a lot of sex so they they slut shamed her. Yeah you reactions one infuriating because mary louise is kind of this stand in for people question me too in the sort of generational divide second reaction. There is no way there are that many hot guys in monterey. Twenty males was neyland like no unbroken boulevard of hoti thirty year old you overhear mallon's over here giving her all to win. Adam scott back is if he's prince charming over there so what other like little tiny hiney nuggets outside of your your theory about areas brother. What an this notebook. What else should we be looking at. Is adam scott your favorite character like which is the characters characters. Which is your favorite. He's the only man that's been allowed to not be two dimensional like he's the only interesting and not the only interesting gordon. Oh no. I took a hard turn against ford and obviously you know it's revealed that he's cheating on renata with the epa relieve. The one hundred thousand dollars in stress related soon as she stood up. I'm like oh my god here. It comes didn't have that coming. They kind of saw it as soon as they show gordon space and just the classic granada seen that gets overlooked because of how amazing the ending was where she says the f. word lord. I think more than samuel l. jackson kleenex into his house or cheating. Who's a ponzi schemer. It's one of the most most bad scenes in the history of rage. I want a bottle episode. That's just exploring. Gordon's man cave dude this is they got spinoff written all over it. If this is indeed indeed the final season of big little is we need a gordon renata spinoff predictions. What do we think oh. I can't do predictions on this. I mean i don't i haven't really i don't i don't i want them to tell me where this is going i don't want to it's not a who done it for me because <hes> i i don't even find as interesting <hes> the story of the death as i do nicole kidman as a symbol for strong woman trying to rise above domestic abuse issues like i'm more interested in that part of the story that i am who did it well. I i think with the dance your question. I side with your theory. I think it's an excellent excellent one but that to me. It's not the who done it. It's how we get there. Because this this journey first and foremost this is a show about tremendous actors excelling at their profession right. I want this to happen because i think that's the best story to tell. I want to see how merrill gets me. They're interesting. Yes i too you want nuance in great writing in these themes. I also want a dead brother who was murdered skarsgard. Yes i want that kind of drama because we haven't really had that and she's such a villain. It's going to be look like the show though because it's got all of that stuff and it's all the the juicy stuff the idea you gotta think that these women would only choose this project unless the symbol excited classy if the symbolism of it though not not just classy not just to be a good project. It's gotta be a strong woman. Poor trail that we're all the characters are complicated warts and all but everybody are you strong totally agree. I also want nicole. Kidman is spit on meryl streep already after she already slaughtered merrill teeth. She slept those fake teeth. That's the greatest sacrifice. Meryl streep has ever made in her life. Those fake team were her idea. Dad the nuggets me more. Come sooner the game last nugget last night because i got to save some for the show. There's only one show left really promoting. <hes> dubbed will live show. You're gonna save your stuff your stuff on the preview of okay. Well little thing look at mary. Sorry louise's scarves. They're always sending a message lawrence. Yes so when she was like trying to make peace floral scarves when she was on the hunt asking question i in she had dogs utter scarf lately. They've been watery theme which means danger danger accident with pairing the brother base. Wasn't that a a drowning. Yeah we'll find out excellent and also you mentioned something on the post show about madeleine's wardrobe choices in season one this he's getting explained that floor all pink and season one. It's been all blue. She's going through her blue period. So perhaps that's something we'll also see a fanatic addict change or these kids in the show absolutely useless this season they've really faded into the backdrop and i for one have been grateful enough of that annoying little girl with brita taste in music or whatever get her off of my televisions my favorite out of all the children she really ziggy can take a walk to it's very clear who's got the acting chops in the san samba and then the kids also the twins. One of them is like the bad one one is the good one to the interaction with a bully was infuriating just like these kids out of here. Bring back merrill more merrill l. markets. This tea party over yet. I mean mean is ah e._s._p._n.'s best n._f._l. Analyst and we're sitting here talking about big little lies. Can we get to the good stuff. What is the good stuff. Have you seen the the latest bachelorette so you were all cut up on bachelorette of course so like just of the people that don't know we started. How many people do you start with on the bachelorette. I think it's usually about thirty okay thirty. This is my first season so like like i have questions about the specifics and then i kinda wanna go broad to the people who aren't caught up and if you aren't you need to be there's four. No there's three people after reading people out. There was yeah there was for hanna is the bachelorette first off. What do we think about hannah just in general. I just wanna if you guys aren't caught up. Please turn it off because i knew nothing worse than when people complain elaine about chose to listen to this. Just turn it off when i hear your crap right. I think she's been a good bachelorette which is different from like being someone. I want to be friends with early but <hes> you picked a really good season. I think that's what charlie kravitz one of the fridge q. Longtime watcher was telling me that this is a really good season and i want to get the his takes in a little bit because we were talking last week and he was very i was impressed with his takes yeah but i'm always amazed we're speaking of hannah are all bachelorettes and bachelor's like this where it's pretty realistic for the the contestants the people trying to get her love. They have to have a serious relationship while she has serious relationships with other people. It's an obvious ridiculous scenario. That's the premise and every time someone expresses. Those feelings feelings to her. She acts like what are you talking about. Why are you doing this to me okay. I'm glad you brought this up so there's kind of like the bachelorette like baseball has unwritten rule right one of which which is the bachelor or bachelorette. He's not supposed to sort of show. Their cards right like you notice like people are saying i love you to her is yet. She kind of gives it implies stuff yes. They do not typically now. It's up. They've broken this before they do not say i love you right before the final episode one of the big things so far or a couple of weeks ago. She said i'm falling in love. That's another thing on the bachelor or bachelorette. There's steps. There's a spectrum and they follow it every time and i don't know if it's like the producers tying them or is that they watched previous seasons but it goes from like i could see myself in love with you. I'm falling in love with you. I'm in love with and and then when they say they're in love with us. She's just like you did it finally got. Everyone knew that you were going to get there but you got right. There's a lot of pressure to even to even be considered for a victory victory. You have to go through those and i remember texting with you and my goal junior after the first episode and i believe you were with me on this. I was an anti lupi guy 'cause he won on the first couple of episodes worse. I got the first impression rose raise that with that was called <hes> you did he essentially one the first episode of yes like where it's like you get the i he liked him from the beginning and i was always kind of a little skeptical and as the season went on we were proved right on scotus allocated. Yes and i just what do you you think who now. I started off team mike. I was always anti lupi kuldeep started off team mike but once i saw them kiss. I didn't feel their connection. Yes no chemistry and so i was basically i've been t- mike and teen peter all season so peter still in it so that's that's where i'm at. I'm team peters your team peter so i guess you haven't seen the entertainment tonight article. It's not a spoiler right. This is not about the show but entertainment tonight has reported that peter had a girlfriend and he was interviewing for the show while he was with her the but he dumped her before he went on the show yeah to me. It's a little dubious white house serious they were. They don't even live in the city. You know but there is a little bit of a dirt on. That's another thing that's ridiculous because that happened in the first episode as well as one of the guys for having still relationship. She's like i can't have you this and he pointed out a pretty practical thing of hey less than a couple of weeks ago. You were head over heels because she was got has been on the previous season and the bachelor so less than a couple a month less than a month ago you you were in love with someone else dudes per night both and she was just like that is not the same and now i'm on the show and you're dating autumn other people's. I mean the bachelor. The whole thing is all about like these roles because again these like unwritten if you break any of them thou shall not have a girl back home. You are act even if you're right logically. It's not like that great rate of a transgression to break up with someone right before going on now a few weeks back back to charlie kravitz he predicted. He's like there's no question. This is tyler game. Tyler's got this. He's best looking in one true and i was always like you know what tyler great-looking but i've never really smoked belt his authenticity you think way shed has none and i'm not saying it's fake okay. I just felt always felt jed and peter were legitimately like i just felt. I don't know i just felt them more. Being i mean now you tell me this stuff about peter so now it makes me start questioning. Every tyler is the only because jed also people magazine reported had a girlfriend back home. Yeah i'm sure you've seen that rice blown up the and do think that offer over yeah do you think that luke p and jed expressing their concerns over having multiple relationships this past week we'll lead. How does it work now going forward okay. There's this balancing finale so fantasy suites just happened. Yes right. She is down to well. It's weird because we haven't actually technically initially seen the outcome of the fantasy suites because they ended it with because she went in with four. Usually you're going to three basically it's down to three although they showed russia in the previously becoming back and then she's going to eliminate one then it's down to two before the finale. There's an episode called men. Tell all which is very busy. This is different from bachelor in in paradise. Oh bachelor in paradise or as i call it red zone. Bachelor is what's between the show. It's all the the rejection. The cast-offs and it's all just like hooking up and fighting all the good stuff. None of them like boring. One on ones like m._t._v. kind of reality is totally it real world type. It's the best franchise that they have by far okay and so. What do you think's gonna happen well. I know what's going to happen so i'm not gonna tell you oh i did read the spoilers oh you do. You always do that so no oh but so i love the bachelor stub read it. It's like my favorite sell bread. It's very active and too. Many people were talking about it and it was too is icing yeah. Are you ready to die. I'm red eye. Check read it for our show. Sometimes i'm not in general yeah. I look at it he school yeah. I mean that plays. This can be evil too but i think allred. I try not to yeah i when i think i did something good. I look at it. Look at it. Another ridiculous premise of the show is how see i want to believe that this is all like fully legit and i do believe one of the things that i think is good about show is ridiculous of the premise of the show is i truly really believed that they actually believe that there. You're right like these aren't good actors like when when like they were going back to the family week they went back to their families and the way they're talking. They're like mom like i know you like this mom. That was one of those questioning yes and he's like. I know it's crazy. I just leave him like. I believe that they actually believe this love. I think the show is so intense like you're isolated. You don't have your phone. All you're doing is sitting around all day about this person. I do think it exacerbates like feelings things right because it's only like a couple of months or whatever and i do think by the end. They are actually in love. And how much time little time in terms of hours do you think all all these three guys left. I've actually spent with her alone. Alone is on camera word. I'm not talking about off camera intimate. No i know you do a lot of group days. Rose ceremonies not that much. I think that the one on one dates are really long and obviously we only see like fifteen minutes right edited but that's usually it's like an entire day <hes> so really by the end. You might have spent like two days right someone. It's just crazy. I love it like it was one of the things that i only started watching the show because my goal junior told me that peter eater sounded like me which i don't really see some times when he gets real soft spoken. When i hear more yeah i was trying to i can't do but so so i just tuned in the first episode. Just let's see what this guy's out and it just got me and now i'm in like i'm going to be watching paul. A bachelor in paradise hands like the way it works is so next season of the bachelor. It's going to be one of these losers usually yes. Usually it's like second third fourth guy and do you know who that is. Well i can't no it hasn't been chosen but obviously no one you know yes yes so. I don't want to tell you why i think it might be. I will say <hes> and this is safe. I think mike is in contention yeah. I like mike. I thought he his personality analogy was great and i liked how he is probably the thing that they do every year. I like a guy that when the group date he's he runs ahead of the group to go give i. I just think it's a little thing you can do to show the you know right you. Would you know you're gonna fast so yeah. I'm teen peter. I hope he wins. You can't give you a prediction but yes yes. Oh this is fun. You should text me during a i'd like to your on. I did that one time and you're like. I'm on the west. Oh yeah i screamed. I all caps. I'm never watched. That's it yeah well. Once the finale happens. We'll do a recap yeah cool. The people want it well. That was fun. Georgia's enjoy it. <hes> that was fun. Ghost is back. I aw sounder that's more like google or something you go snake noise <hes> ooh they definitely don't make the sounds of footsteps because they don't have feet and let the ghosts haffey no sometimes in haunted mansion's. You'll hear the working creaking yeah but yet are they walking. These ghosts all right. I feel like we're done with this episode of now. People were just listening to us ramble on about goes. Hey guys why don't you you know subscribe in like in rate and what's this stuff like yeah. They're supposed to do stuff right. Well said we'll talk to you next week.

louise mary louise meryl streep nicole nicole kidman mike crag monterey dan amina bonnie pugh ziprecruiter ziprecruiter peter eater mary louise gordon renata madeleine merrill madeline Adam scott charlie kravitz california celeste mary louise australia jane
Episode 3-5, Power, control and death

Five four two and the Blue

37:23 min | 1 year ago

Episode 3-5, Power, control and death

"Hello and welcome, you have discovered season three of the five, four two and the blue podcast discussions, law, enforcement, history, issues and incidents in the Appalachian Mountains, and beyond your host and narrator. Scotland's slid retired, police, detective, Sergeant, author and researcher. For more information. Please go to Scott for Dorothy dot com, there you can find a link to the podcast website and information on Scott's books, and how to order them Scott can be reached through the message portal their. Background music is open, sourced and used with permission. This is Victoria producer for five four two in the Blue Scott your online. Thank you, Victorian alledged getting started on our current shade of blue story for five four two in the blue. At Victoria said. Our shade of Blue Story Today. Deals with power control and death. A crime spree that ended violently dramatically over thirty years ago. But before get into the main story. Take a quick. Short side trip into North Carolina history just a minute. Now. This information comes from the White, house historical, association A good resource for history and information. On, August, second, nineteen, sixty two. Deflects? F. U. L. T. Z. Quadruplets Maryalice mary-louise Mary. Catherine in Marianne. My want to keep those middle names in the back of your mind, just a little bit. They were taking a tour of the White House when. President John F Kennedy emerged at the rose. Garden take part in a ceremony there. While he was getting ready for the ceremony, the White House press secretary. hatcher introduced the president to the quadruplets, and they pose and did a photo op. The sixteen year, old girls were from Milton with Carolina. And they were considered a medical wonder. In widely followed by the American public after their miraculous birth on May twenty third nineteen, forty six now at the time of their birth. They were the only sentimental quadruplets. To actually survive birth. All four of them. Were born to an African American parents. A Deaf Mute woman named Anne Marie. And a farmer named Peter. Peter faults if you LTV again, they were born at Penn Moral Hospital in reach Ville North Carolina. Keep in mind, Pin Memorial Hospital again. Now due to the hospital segregation policies at the time, the premature quadruplets were actually born in the basement. And they were born weighing just three pounds each. To help the parents financially support the quadruplets condition to their other six children. PET EVAPORATED MILK company. A Baby Formula Company offered to cover all medical bills provided an in home nurse and gave the family land in a home to live on. Now in return. The quadruplets were featured in a lot of the company's marketing campaigns and advertisements throughout their childhood. The girls were also featured on the cover of Ebony magazine on their first birthday. Not only had they met President Kennedy, but they also had the opportunity to meet President Harry S Truman on April sixteenth, making fifty when they were four years old. At the time they were in watched de she for a magazine photog- story. And, apparently was a chance encounter at that time. Now, despite meeting presidents, posing for magazine covers life in the public eye was difficult for the quadruplets due to their their their skin color at the time. The doctor that delivered the quadruplets was a white man by the name of Fred Claimer K.. L. E. N. E. R.. Now. He took advantage of the MOM and dad's. Illiteracy in made himself an unofficial guardian of the children. Setting up advertising campaigns with pet evaporated milk. More for his benefit than for the kids. And it turns out. cleaner also named the children providing middle names honoring his own female relatives. He released the children from the hospital and then advertised that visitors could go to the flood zone to view them through a glass screen. And they did so as the girl continued to grow up. And as they grew up, they were continually feet, advertisements for pet evaporated milk and appeared on many talk shows. They were rarely compensated for any of this work while cleaner continued to profit from the deals that he arranged. All four the quadruplets died from breast cancer. The final sister Mary Catherine passed away at the age of seventy two. two years ago in two thousand eighteen. That's a little background in. We're looking more old at the. Cleaner Dr Cleaner than our young ladies in this next section. In the next part of our story. On June third one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty five. A Chevy. Blazer driven by Fritz Cleaner. Not. Senior, but junior son of the doctor exploded on highway one fifty in Summerlin North Carolina. Investigation showed that there was a bomb in the car and killed a Susan Newsom. Lynch. Who happened to be cleaners. FIRST COUSIN LOVER IN CO-CONSPIRATOR. Her sons, John and Jim. Were also in the blazer out. Topsy showed that they were poisoned and shot. Right after. Fritz tried to gun down. Police officers with an Uzi near the intersection. Of Friendly Avenue and New Garden Road, wounding two officers one very seriously. It's very sensational tale There was actually. A movie done about it in the late eighties I believe. But when I asked around, too many people remember it's a story of wealth power incest in mental illnesses. And Death. There was several newspaper articles. The time written by Mr Jerry. BLEDSOE. An award winning reporter and columnist for the news record. You can find these articles online. You can also find Jerry bledsoe's. Nonfiction work. That? He wrote several years ago. That was. That has been published in an available at several bookstores including Amazon. Is under the title Bitter Blood House. Give you a quick summary of the events. Let's talk about some of the events that happened in this particular shade of blue. I told you about Fritz cleaner senior. Now we're looking at. Fritz's son for its cleaner junior. And his needs. Suzy sharp newsom. When they were growing up to five being first cousins, they lived in different towns and had different interests. Not that unusual, the two young people at the time we're born into wealth and influence. They weren't especially close growing up. They lived in different towns and had different interest. Suzy was called Suzie Q.. After her aunt, Susie Sharp, who happened to be a North Carolina judge, and who was the country's first elected female justice state Supreme Court. Now sued mother Florence newsome was the justice sister. She was born in reads. Villain raged in Winston. Salem she was pretty and smart, and she liked being treated as a princess and she was. Some calder spoiled or temper. Tantrums were so dramatic at one point. Her mother could only stop these temper tantrums by pouring cold water on. Now growing older, she carried herself with the same regal presence of Princess and also became quite a Namur in fixated on stories about the British royal family. When she was old enough, she enrolled away for university in Winston, Salem, and of course she became a fraternity sweetheart. Fritz Cleaner Junior was seven years younger than suiting. His mother. Anne hill sharp cleaner was the sister of Florence. newsome and judge susie sharp. It's father like we said was Dr Frederick Fred Cleaner Senior. A well-known in somewhat controversial doctor in Regional Carolina. Senior was a graduate of Duke University Medical School. At the elder believed large doses of Vitamin, C could cure polio and multiple sclerosis and. Did a lot of research on that and prescribed a lot of vitamin C. Two individuals. Some of his patients and some other doctors thought he was pretty much a genius others even some in the medical establishment pretty much thought he was a quack. So as one of those guys whether you like him or don't I guess? If, you go online and in just searched for the good doctor. You'll find quite a bit of information on his research and. His Now as a child Fritz nother. Now, junior as a child, never stray pretty much far from demanding father, hanging out his office and going on hunting trips with him. Dad gave out Atta boys and scoldings in the same pretty much the same amount. For its was expected to earn straight edge, obey his father, not screw up or get in trouble, and when Fritz could not keep up with his dad's ideals. The good doctor withdrew his attention, ignoring a sun, which ended up being a very severe punishment for one who? whose entire. World was his father. Now if we said. Senior made a lot of his money. On exploiting the. On exploiting the four quadruplets. He'd probably would not have become as well known as influential in his vitamin. resurge in business. If it hadn't been for the attention he got through the. Quadruplets. Now French junior also absorbed his father's ethos. Very serious into Catholicism was ultra conservative and. Looking forward or looking towards the end of the world. Coming soon. He was thought of as a very strong racist. He kept his waiting room at his doctor's office. He kept it separated and non-integrated all the way up into the nineteen eighties. He had a very strong of communist who he believed were threatening Western civilization. And bringing the downfall of man. Now junior after he graduated from regional, high, actually very fine high school I've had several friends of mine that graduated from there that I met in college. Brits attended the University of Mississippi Oxford. But he never graduated. When his father demanded to see the diploma, after he left college for its live, claiming his enemies in the German department conspired to keep him from finishing his degree. And for some reason that dad bought that. Fritz later told his father that he had corrected the misunderstandings with the university. He faked his graduation. Fate and enrollment at Duke University Medical School. and. was able to pull off. An was able to pull this off in. His father. Really couldn't be more proud of it. I'm moving back to our prince two. Now on the surface. She appeared to be going pretty much better than Fritz while at weight for. She met a basketball player a Tom Lynch. Blonde and upwardly mobile. He was born himself into a very wealthy family that lived outside of Louisville Kentucky. Two years younger than Suzy. Attention she gave him. But as is sometimes the case. His mother Dolores didn't like little Susie at all as the relationship between the two progressed. Mother Dolores urged him to ditch you. Again as you so often happens, mom was not successful in a proposal of marriage was made. And then a wedding date set. Mother and future daughter-in-law had a knock down drag out fight on the day of the wedding. June sixth nineteen seventy. And I kind of put a damper on the festivities there in Winston Salem for a little while. Now. Tom Tried to work around the disagreements between his mother and his new wife. But that was a little bit difficult. The couple moved to Lexington Kentucky. Tom had been accepted into dental school at the University of Kentucky there. Between his studies and Burr job at a research firm, the couple spent little time together and even less time with mother-in-law. Apparently only seeing her one time in four years, even though there were living about an hour and a half away. Susie hated her mother-in-law and did not hide this fact. She and Tom moved later to Beaufort. South Carolina where. Tom Had joined the navy resolve. And they had a son in nineteen seventy four. Grandmother came from Kentucky to see the first grandchild and was told by the mom get a hotel room. Then make an appointment to see the baby. Grandmother ended up not seeing the child for over a year after it was born. It wasn't long after that that Tom. Opened up a new dental practice in all the Kirke New Mexico. And that soon after that second child arrived another boy. Now susie? Didn't like living in New Mexico. She resented being stuck at home with two small children while Tom, devoted most of his time to establishing his dental practice. She often talked about her. Prominent wealthy family and friends back in North Carolina. She criticized the locals for their lack of culture and fashion sense. And at one point. There is evidence that showed up that she actually was involved in child abuse situation beating both of her children to the point that one of them ended up being hospitalized. Now. In this type of relationship. Tensions grew between the two. They're fighting becoming more frequent. And in July of seventy nine. Susan and the Children Return to North Carolina to spend some time with her dying grandfather. She decided she wasn't going to return to New Mexico. But she didn't bother to tell Tom APP till later. Tom Eventually signed a separation agreement agreement giving her full custody of two children for three years old. Now strangely. Wanting I guess some sort of adventure. Suzy by the end of the year. Moved to China. With both boys where she taught English for about six months. Now Venture Adventure was a little too messy for susie. the normal air pollution that was there in China, entered at her standards of living were much higher than the local residents in where she had live Watchi- taught in China which he inter sons returned to Greensboro. Six months later. Suzy was thin week and demoralized. She was no longer the prentice she had been or lease. Who she thought she was. Seeing this mother insisted that she make an appointment to go see her uncle Dr. Fred Cleaner for treatment. And she did. And, it wasn't long that she was also seen Fritz well. And Suzy was under the impression like everyone else that. Was a medical student at Duke University. His father's Alma Mater. And when wasn't in school he was. oftentimes found in his father's. Doctor's office, wearing a lab coat and a stethoscope and pretending to be a doctor. Fritz was going to extraordinarily links to show. The world mostly is father. Not only was he enrolled in medical school, but he was considered somewhat of a project by the school. Now Fritz kept apartments in reads Ville and Durham where he stayed Mondays through. Thursdays to attend class or perform rounds at the hospital is what he told everyone other days. He worked with his father and his reach Ville Hospital. Like I, said dressed up like doctor, the patients they're referred to him often as young doctor cleaner, but friends had a different name form. They called him Dr Crazy. So apparently, some people were figuring out what was going on. Junior always carried a medical bag dispensing stress pills. Offering various injections, and of course, pushing his father's vitamin C. Treatments, these Fritz prescribed a lot of times is they were mostly over the counter medications and he could get a hold of them relatively easy without too much problem. He became friendly with the owners begun shop and Hillsborough, and he told tales and stories about rescuing his father from certain death. And? He also lied about being green beret that he had fought behind enemy lines in in Vietnam, and of course no story would have been complete without Fritz, confiding in those closest to him that his real job was. A CIA super-secret dangerous cover agent. Working. For the government. Which I'm sure you have already. Guests are already know. He was none of that was true. Soon, after reconnecting at the doctor's office to cousins been spending time together eventually, almost all of their time together. Fritz spent most of his nights. Her apartment near Guilford College. He took the boys camping, and even told them to call him papa kind of weird. Actually very weird family and friends pretended were ignored. What was pretty obvious? The fact that the first cousins had developed a relationship and had become lovers. Fritz became seizures protector by convincing her that. Her Ex husband Tom was plotting to kidnap the boys, and she responded by limiting their contact with her dad, and a very least monitoring very closely, and at times she would only allow them to talk to their dad and the imaginary CIA agent Fritz would always record these calls for future reference in evidence. Shows, you would even toss the presence out. The Dad sent the boys, and even cookies and food. Foodstuffs were thrown out because they. Might be poisoned. Now, the original agreement will allow data few holiday visits in a few weeks in the summer pretty much. That was about it. And Suzy refused to allow him any more access than what they had originally agreed to. Now in Tom did see them they. Appeared thin, withdrawn and scared. And loaded down with large quantities of vitamin C that Fritz said insisted they take with them to Albuquerque Dad decided to take legal action after seeing this to boost visitation rights overall in May nineteen eighty-four Dr Fred Cleaner senior died at Morehead Hospital in Aden North Carolina. He passed away there because of an ongoing grudge and disagreement, the doctor had with the hospital and reach Phil what it appears that goes back to the birth. The Quad grouplets and of course Fritz became the. Greeting, son told a large crowd gathered in the waiting room about his dramatic, but ultimately unsuccessful attempt to save his father's life and a lot of family members thought that this would send junior into pretty much a death spiral. And it did to a certain extent. He became quite strange. And he became more strange as the custody hearings wound their way through court. Suzy's paranoia grew and she resented the time that Tom his new wife spent with the boys especially when they visited visited X. Mom in law in Kentucky. On July. Twenty Fourth Nineteen eighty-four. The two boys were. With Dad and stepmom in Albuquerque and just. Two days away from a trip to see his mother and the boy's grandmother in Kentucky when dad perceived a very devastating tragic news. The Grandmother. Tom's mother and his sister. Had both been killed shot multiple times at close range with a high powered weapon. Kentucky. Police stated that it looked like a professional hip. SUJI refused Tom's request to extend the voice. Stay in New Mexico, so that agreed as a family and. Children ended up coming back to North Carolina. Now as investigators in Kentucky, try to figure out what was going on and look for clues. Tom Saved a note from his mother-in-law Florence Newsom. Excuse me his former mother-in-law. He used it as an opportunity to explain his court actions. All, he wanted he wrote. was a normal healthy relationship with his boys. Now is ex- mother-in-law. She agreed with that. And, Stated that was important. The boys have a strong and good relationship with your father. And she also said she hoped that something could be arranged to that effect. The father and His ex- mother-in-law and father-in-law began communicating on a fairly regular basis, and sending pictures back and forth, and describing the visits than what's going on with the kids because Tom couldn't get that from the biological daughter. Susie and it came down to the point that the newsome's Tom's mother-in-law and father-in-law agreed to testify about vegetation. On Tom's behalf. In the new quirks, and of course we know what this did the Susie. She went nuts. And she became more fearful each day of losing the boys. She told relatives that Tom had mob connections and use that to explain why his mother and sister were killed gangland-style. She knew this to be true. She said because Fritz was with the CIA and toler. Prison convinced another person he worked for the CIA. Ian Perkins, a twenty one year old from a prominent regional family and a student at Washington and Lee University in Virginia. Perkins Known Fritz Pretty Much. All his life looked up to him. They shared a common love of patriotism, a hatred of communism and a fascination with guns. Perkins had toe Fritz that he wanted a career in government talent college. So In the spring of Nineteen, eighty five Fritz appeal to that desire when he told Perkins about his work with the Sierra. Fritz needed Perkins help with a covert mission to kill foreign drug trafficker. It was a try out of sorts Fritz told him, and he would evaluate perkins performance to determine whether he was worthy of other missions and full time employment with the Central Intelligence Agency. And of course. The spy struck Perkins agreed. And the weekend of May Seventeenth Nineteen ninety-five around eleven pm. Perkins Drop Fritz in the Old Town neighborhood section of Winston, Salem. Just after midnight Fritz came back and pick and met up with Perkins, who had completed the so-called mission? That night, three people were killed a half mile from the drop off point. Bob and Florence newsome. The. Cousins mother his his aunt and uncle. Bob's mother Hattie. Now, on May thirtieth nineteen, eighty five. Before the three days before the entire thing fell apart. Winston, Salem police detectives questioned a wannabe secret agent. Mr Perkins about his whereabouts tonight, the nuisance were killed. I'm not sure how linked up that he was involved. Now Fritz said used Perkins as an alibi when they questioned him. And the two had planned for such a scenario and had urged her story very well. They had been camping together in Virginia mountains that weekend or not, even in North Carolina. Win The Kentucky Officers Pressured Perkins who were looking at. Their homicide. He finally tearfully confessed the truth. He wasn't supposed to tell anyone, but he was. Cleaner. On a covert. mission. On Saturday may eighteenth year driven him to Winston Salem to kill communist? They were rating at American arsenal smuggling the. To South, America and trading them for large quantities of drugs which they sold of course at a profit. The, Russian KGB was involved and the mission just so happened to take place the same weekend, and about a half mile away from where the newsroom's were killed. The detectives recognizing Perkins Gullibility realized he had swallowed riches story. And they shared the truth with him Fritz, was neither doctor nor 007. He wasn't fact a suspect in the Kentucky. Homicides and the North Carolina Homicides. Now Perkins realizing he had been had agreed to wear a wire and try to get a confession from Fritz. He met with Fritz twice both times he said police requests him about the death both times he asked for. It's whether he had anything to do with him. And Fritz stuck to his. C. I A. Yarn. He gave Perkins several pills from his medicine bag to help him. Stay calm under interrogation. Perkins met with Fritz. Again Perkins climbed into the passenger seat of cleaners blazer. He was terrified that Fritz would see the wire microphone recording device and killing instead Fritz came as close as we would confessing. The statement he made was how write a paper saying you? were, not knowingly involved that you believed you were on a covert mission for the government. But I've got things to do. I won't see you again. Perkins didn't know at that time and he couldn't have done that. He was actually sitting on top of a large bomb that some one would detonate about two hours later in Summerfield, North Carolina, now police set up Fritz this point. The Caravan of unmarked police cars followed him. Away from the meeting point until he arrived Suzy's apartment. Meanwhile using the information of Forsyth County District Attorney's. Authorized and arrest warrant based on his kind of confession. And soon law enforcement personnel in a whole lot of them had the apartments rounded from a distance, the Forsyth County Sheriff deputies. Detectives from the Kentucky State Police. Agents from the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation we're on the ground and in the air. The Greensboro Police, department had sent a detective to serve as lay on. And local officer, Tommy Dennis, who was a squad leader with Greensboro was close by and headed that way to assist with what was supposed to be an arrest. He didn't know the details only that he would be helping other law enforcement agencies approach and take a felon suspect into custody. Now as detectives watched Fritz and says he learned the blazer with what look camping equipment. John Jim the two boys. And their chow dog got into the back seat. And Suzy got into the passenger seat, and they pulled out of the apartment complex and left. A Greensboro detective pulled in at that point in blocked the blazer. Other officers materialized in. Wave Fritz to stop. An FBI agent held up a pistol in his badge for Fritz to see Fritz pulled the blazer up onto the curb, drove around the police cars and continued on his way. Now Dennis, squad car approaching had heard this and he was coming from the West. He flipped on his blue lights, still not knowing the specifics of situation. Made A U-TURN? Tried to get behind the Blazer. When two unmarked cars one from the FBI, the other given by forsyth, county sheriff's deputy also made U. Turns one of the vehicles swerved into. Officer Dennis vehicle he swerved and skidded into the blazer and hit the driver's side door. Ending up about ten feet from Fritz. Officer Dennis looked up at this point to see nine millimeter Uzi pointed at him and Fritz. Smiling. According to his statement and Fritz opened up with the Jozy. Five bullets hit the officer squad car, and to hit the officer one struck him in his chest, impacting his vast, and the second grade is belt buckle. Fritz continued to fire. Indiscriminately officers returned fire. One Kentucky detector took a bullet from the under his right arm. Fritz appeared to be boxed in by all the cars, but he did manage to bang his way out. He pulled a blazer up onto the road in again a chase. The gun and he was followed by a heck of a lot of police cars with more on their way. Now driving real slow this time. And then slowing down to open fire on the officers behind him. Fritz turned on NC. One fifty. Realizing now the Z. was empty and he had run out of magazines. At this point. The Blazer while the police were chasing, it simply exploded. This ended up being at three seven PM in the afternoon. Officers that were chasing the vehicle. Carefully, approached fearing that there might be other bombs. Most of the officers were reported saying that never seen anything like that in their entire career as gruesome as the. Explosion was. susie lay culver the lower part of her body. Blown off from the bomb that had she had been sitting on. The boys were in upright position in the remains of the blazers back seat the dog between them. Further investigation and autopsies, they found both of the boys were already dead. When the bomb exploded, they had been poisoned with cyanide then shot in the head by their mother. Now Fritz survive, but just for a few minutes. A detective from Kentucky found him still breathing. He leaned over and tried to get a confession or some sort of statement from fits, but he just girdled and died. Now in a strange coincidence, but possibly fitting within moments after Fritz. His last and died. The Sky turned black wind, and lightning started up. A torrential rainstorm, forced the officers to take cover, and pending the investigation in the recovery of evidence hail, the size of marbles, started falling and beating on the lifeless bodies of Susie, and Fritz the princess and the protector. So. We have three family members killed by sniper fire. The next year we have three more family members killed by sniper fire, and then we have three more members killed in a bomb explosion. Well excuse me. The two children had been killed prior to the bomb explosion. Things are all related interconnected, if cleaner senior had not been involved with quadruplets and made so much money. In his exploitation of them and their family. Would junior have turned out the way he did? We don't know and that's the we'll never know. And that's part of life. We can't change things once. They've already occurred. If you'd like more information on this story more detailed information I would recommend the nonfiction book. Bitter blood by that was written by the newspaper author Jerry. bledsoe actually was a New York Times bestseller, and still available in print and used copies are available to online. If you'd like to get one of those. It's very very interesting read. That's this episode shade of Blue If you'd like more information on this episode in story and some of the other stories that have been done check out my website Scott Lunceford author dot com, where you can find not only information on the PODCAST, but links to my books are fiction and nonfiction on the web page, and I can be contacted through the contact page of that website is well. If you have information, suggestions for possible stories were possible research. or You have other comments that you'd like to make her. Get in touch with me about you can do that through the website. Thank you Victoria and Alex for getting us up and going and in the coming weeks I hope everyone stay safe insecure and remember do something nice for somebody it'll do you and another person whole lot of good. Go ahead and close this out alice you have been listening to five four two in the blue podcast, a discussion of law enforcement carry issues and incidents in the Appalachian Mountains, and beyond five four, two in the blue hosted by Scotland's first for more information. GO TO SCOTT LUNCEFORD AUTHOR DOT COM. You can find a link to the PODCAST and information on Scott's books, and how to order them Scott can be reached through the message portal there. This is alice engineer for five four to the blue. Thank you for listening.

Fritz North Carolina Suzy sharp Kentucky Susie Sharp Ian Perkins Tom Fritz Cleaner Jerry. bledsoe blazers Winston Salem President John F Kennedy Appalachian Mountains F. U. L. T. Z. Quadruplets Mar Scott Lunceford Tom Lynch Mary Catherine Dr. Fred Cleaner Anne Marie Duke University Medical School
9.14.20 Legal Docket, Moneybeat, and History Book

The World and Everything In It

32:41 min | 1 year ago

9.14.20 Legal Docket, Moneybeat, and History Book

"The world and everything in it is made possible by listeners like us. My name is Michael Fox and I'm a husband of twelve years to my lovely wife, Carrie who home schools are five children we live in. Burlington North Carolina and I work as a solutions adviser, northstar marketing, as well as serve as an elder at Antioch Community Church a hope you enjoyed today's program. Good morning a professor asserts his conscience against mandated diversity training at a college campus in south. Carolina in life, we must never confront our lowest by Bandini our highest. That's ahead today on legal docket. Also, today on the Monday money beat will run the numbers on jobs in consumer prices also will discuss the politics, of government, Cova relief plus the world history today the one hundredth anniversary of the bombing in New York City and world commentator Kim Henderson on the medicinal qualities of a game of. Bingo. It's Monday September fourteenth this is the world and everything in it from listener supported world radio I marry writer and I'm Nick Eicher Good Morning. Up, next CAN COMINGTON has today's news. To Los Angeles County Sheriff's deputies were fighting for their lives on Sunday as police conducted a manhunt for the gunman who shot the deputies inside their squad car sheriff Alex, Villanova told reporters that both officers were new on the job. One is thirty one year old mother of six year old boy. Husband is here. With them the other one is a twenty four year old. And parents are here. Girlfriend is here. They're both class four, thirty, seven. So they just graduated in fact, I wore them into office just fourteen months ago. Both underwent surgery on Saturday night shortly after the attacker ambushed their patrol car at a Metro Rail Station, the deputies were able to radio for help the department tweeted video of the shooting that shows a person firing through the passenger side window according to the sheriff's department protesters then blocked the entrance and exit of the hospital emergency room yelling hope they die. President trump reacted Sunday saying the shooter should receive the death penalty if either of the officers die Joe. Biden called the attack cold-blooded and unconscionable and said, the perpetrator must be brought to justice. Some good news in Oregon on Sunday as officials said, nearly all of the dozens of people reported missing have been located after ablaze in the southern part of the state but firefighters continue to battle devastating wildfires up and down the west coast so far thirty three people have died Oregon governor. Kate. Brown said Sunday that more than forty thousand Oregonians have had to flee their homes this week alone we burned over a million acres of beautiful, Oregon. We've got fires on the coast. We've got fires in communities right up abutting our metropolitan areas and southern Oregon has been devastated warnings of low moisture and strong winds that could fan the flames of added urgency to the battle. So called Red Flag warnings stretched from hard hits southern or northern California and of an extended through this evening. More than hundred and fifty human rights groups are urging the International Olympic Committee to rethink. Holding. The two thousand, twenty, two Winter Games in Beijing in a letter the coalition said that since the two thousand eight Olympic Games in Beijing China has built quote or Wellington Surveillance Network. In Tibet and incarcerated more than a million workers. It also listed a litany of other abuses from Hong Kong to the Inner Mongolia region as well as the intimidation of Taiwan China brushed off the letter as an attempt to politicize sports. At. least two GOP lawmakers are calling on the Justice Department to investigate the see of Netflix and the makers of a controversial French film violated child Pornography Loss Texas Senator Ted Cruz said Sunday this movie cuties at its sexualize is eleven year old girls has them dancing like strippers has them in very suggestive sexual roles and and it's frankly disgusting and Indiana Congressman Jim Banks told Fox News. It's trafficking child pornography on Netflix and Netflix should be a penalize. They should be gone after by the DOJ, and with with charges brought against them for distributing child pornography that could justice department has not made a public statement about a potential investigation. Grace, community church in suburban Los Angeles. A court order in held. It's normal Sunday service indoors yesterday on Thursday Los Angeles Superior Court temporarily banned the church from having any indoor worship services judge Mitchell backcloth also said, the church could only hold outdoor services under certain conditions. The church's Pastor John Macarthur called the ruling unconstitutional and on Sunday morning he read from a list of requirements the church would have to meet to comply with the order including restroom protocols and rules about parking he said the rules would effectively shut down the Church At attorney for the county argued earlier this month his words religion doesn't trump health and safety, but a lawyer for the Church said, the county is guilty of a double standard. He said officials are targeting the church but seemed to have no problem with large protests gatherings. Can't Covington and straight ahead a dispute over college sensitivity training plus Kim Anderson on missing Bingo this is the world and everything in. added. It's Monday morning start of a new workweek for the world and everything in it. Today is the Fourteenth of September twenty twenty good morning to you. I'm Nick Eicher. Marry. The academic publication inside Higher Ed reports the story of a professor of politics at a South Carolina school who had been facing termination for refusing mandatory diversity training. His name is Jeffrey Poe Vardi. He's a professor of politics at Converse College in Spartanburg South Carolina he wrote a letter explaining why he objected and then read it on a youtube video. I do not dispute that the leadership of Congress college is well meaning in its attempts to extirpate bigotry but those attempts must occur within the framework of a liberal education guided by an essential respect for the freedom and dignity of the individual to think and learn on his or her own. Converse College mandated the training back in March according to published reports it required faculty to undergo diversity and inclusion training along with a course in recognizing something called on. Bias College President Kristen you Kirk wrote a memo to students in response to pull forty in it. She says the right to freedom of speech is balanced by our policy on discrimination and that Converse does not tolerate discrimination on any other status protected by applicable federal state or local Law Paul Forty continues reading portion of his letter Congress College. Like the American nation around its is an imperfect entity. As must any entity engendered by the broken incorrupt human heartbeat? Congress and America. May contain dark and ugly elements that frustrate the attainment of our highest ideals but in life. In Life. We must never confront our lowest by abandoning our highest. Unfortunately. This is exactly what the Leadership Conference College has done by imposing the coercive mandate and embracing an expedient to address the problem of racism that departs from the essential nature of liberal arts education pull forty refused to submit to what he sees as condescending ideologically infused training. When he refused to bend to coercion, he thought his job was at risk. So he hired a lawyer. Samantha Harris. She represents him throughout this process and Dr Paul. Wardi. Objected to this as a violation of his freedom of conscience particularly because. On from. Some faculty who did take the trainings that you actually had on at least one of them you had to select particular answers that were you know the right answer before being able to move on but that some of these answers were actually matters of opinion So he believed that taking this training and the fact that the college was you know imposing this training on its faculty was a violation of his. Right to freedom of conscience and he told me that this training often requires you to answer yes or no question. But one that actually has an ideological tilt to it. So Poe, forty felt the training was an idea logical imposition on. He actually said that if the college would make it voluntary that he would take it but he felt that this wasn't the colleges place to require faculty and staff to sort share. The colleges official view on racial dynamics in this country in order to be faculty in good standing according to Paul Vardi. Congress told him he could be terminated for insubordination. If he refused the training, it shows instead just to issue him a reprimand which really I think is a result of the fact that he was to speak up about this and when he spoke up about it, he received. Support from around the country I. Think. Universities often try to do things privately that they wouldn't be able to defend publicly and I think that firing a faculty member for not wanting to submit to essentially a program afo reform is something that was not going to play well with the public and once converse realized that this was not something that was just going to be a private matter. It chose just to issue this reprimand. Which? Has Little practical effect and Dr Poverty remains a faculty member at the college the pressure to bend to ideology strong everywhere across industries I asked Harris to talk about what protections Americans have against this sort of thing. Well, you know we obviously have the First Amendment which prevents the government from taking any official action based on the content of people speech I. Think the real thing though is that the legal protections are don't mean a lot of people are not willing to stand up for their rights and that's what's happening right now is that there's really a climate of fear that's prevailing not only on campus, but also in the media and in the corporate world as well. I had another. There was another professor at Princeton who wrote a piece in quillet in which he challenged as sort of pushed back against a petition by faculty at Princeton to take all of these new anti-racism initiatives and every published that there was a lot of anger and people called for the University of investigate him. And he received just voluminous hate online and everything but the support that he got all these sort of private messages saying, Hey, listen you know I wish I could speak up in your defense but I'm afraid of losing my job on some of these were from within academia. But some of these also were from people in corporate jobs. Sarah said the issue is more about whether individuals have. The Courage to stand up for their rights? No matter the personal or professional cost. The reason is mal behavior is allowed to continue is that too many people are afraid I think that if a critical mass of people push back and I think that's evident in the case of Dr Paul Forty, and in the case of professor cats who is the case I was just talking about at Princeton. These were cases where you know the faculty themselves and their supporters didn't publicly stand up. Forty received a reprimand in his employment file but Harris says that shows the college backed down from its original threat to fire him. Well, it's interesting because you know for all of the emphasis being placed on diversity there really is a problem with diversity of thought and I think that's because there's there's really an arrogance among a lot of the people in positions of authority at colleges and universities. Today they sort of having a monopoly on the truth. And I think there's a real lack of intellectual humility there in that desire to suppress dissenting points of view. What does Harris? Thank the ultimate message of Professor Paul Varghese case is I think the real message here is that what should be conducted as good faith debates are now conducted as these canceled campaigns were if anybody expresses a view that's out of step with the prevailing ideology on campus, people are sort of calling for their personal unprofessional destruction. You know I think that we need more people like, Dr. Forty, who are willing to stand up for their rights even you know at at cost themselves because that's the only way we're gonNA fight back against this canceled culture I'll let professor Povo already have the final word note this is edited for flow. As the political philosopher, Leo Strauss reminds US quote. Indignation is a bad counsellor. Our indignation proves it best that we are well meaning. Does not prove that we are right unquote. This is from his work natural history on page six. And do not tell president newkirk or provos barker with to read or watch or think. I demand. The same respect from them. And God willing. Let them see beyond ideology and embrace the complexity and diversity of opinions and interpretations that these events require and finally. Let them check their coercive impulses that the front gate. and. That's this week's legal docket. Additional support comes from crossing cultures international an organization that equips and trains indigenous pastors and Church leaders more than thirty three countries more at CCA equipped dot org. Coming up next on the world and everything in the Monday money beat. Well, let's welcome financial analyst and adviser David Johnson morning. Nicotine me with you. So David you're out at the coffee shop this morning that's different for you. Things are opening up there in New York. City. Yes. They definitely are I mean I reopened my office out here in New York after Fourth of July and it was a ghost town throughout most Manhattan solely mature. We thought the summer we saw things started to pick back up. and. Then now here after Labor Day with schools, reopening and restaurants getting ready to reopen on the inside they've been opened on outdoor patio for quite a while. Now, you definitely feel some energy coming back into the city There's really good to hear. Well, David. Talk Jobs right here at the top looks like initial jobless claims stayed at eight, hundred, eighty, four, thousand continuing claims I am I right that it went up continuing claims up modestly and even the initial claims were up just a little bit but yeah, right there in between eight, fifty, nine, hundred on the continuing claims were up on the margin. So not a big move up or down on the job was from this week. Do you draw any conclusions from that? Though I mean, did you expect something different? No I don't have any expectation week. By Week, we try to use trailing three week averages to take out noise from the numbers and on a trailing three week period everything is declining and we expected to continue to finding my frustration is I wanted to Hainan quicker, and the only thing holding that back is the very sector. We were just talking about Manhattan it's Food and beverage. It's hospitality travel leisure. These are not necessarily very high paying jobs, but they're just so important to those people to those sectors of. Wage employees that to me is where you have the lowest hanging fruit but there's just no reason for these places I mean here in New York you understand the positivity rate has been less than one percent for months. Okay. There's just no reason to not have these restaurants open. All right. Well, I'd like to. Hear a bit I. Think a lot of people see these reports from the Labor Department the Commerce Department and when a listener encounters a story, like this consumer prices rebounded in August for the third straight month after a sharp decline following the covert outbreaks, everyday items are becoming more expensive. I'm reading from the Wall Street Journal here how do you interpret stories like those just as a reader of one of them? Is it just another of these demand side figures that? Really don't mean that much to you. Now means nothing at all. It's not even really true because it's just a fluctuation of the numbers that bounce a little bit. On on the margin, this whole issue of what we're consumer prices stand. There's never been a need ever for economic data. Tell us I mean you and I know what stuff costs are paying the bill for dinner with our family that's where Americans feel consumer stuff, and that's why you can't create a national index because people travel differently they spend differently there's different habits, different preferences the whole issue of inflation trying to become a monolithic. Tag is very difficult first of all healthcare cost housing costs and higher education cost aware all the inflation has come from well indexes that looked oil prices, gas prices see I don't drive a car much I walk around in Manhattan and even in Newport beach my house in my office or a mile apart from each other. So the way gas prices affect someone like me is somebody. Relevant but then there's people that drive forty miles to work every day. So the oil price inflation or deflation is GonNa have a huge impact on them. Well, how do you capture all that in a particular index? I just don't think it can be done. So I understand there's going to be out of this data points fluctuate but here's where what we know to be the case. There is significant disinflation and prices overall as a result of technology and overall I think people should consider that a good thing. Okay and and let's talk a bit about politics. Congressional Politics David, what do you know about what's going on with and I, hesitate to call it the the there's everybody calls it a stimulus package. But, of course, we know it's really not the stimulus package. It's really more relief I guess than anything else. But what is your sense of where these negotiations stand or or is it that were just done here? We're going to have the election and then we'll decide what's nice. Yeah I don't I have a couple sources that I am very hesitant to to contradict. Very reliable and they're very. Qualified in their assessment of things that they continue to tell me, they're adamant deals going to end up getting done and yet I am really of the opinion that this thing is dead that that at this point, both parties have determined that there's no political damage being done to them to not do a deal, and so the House Democrats can tell their base. Sorry we're not getting anything for you, but it's because the. White House is not playing ball and White House and Senate Republicans can say Ackerley, we've offered smaller deals we wanna go get done. What everyone agrees to the House Democrats won't even do the things that we agree to getting done. So the bill this week that the Senate pass and then the Democrats blocked from going forward that would have provided a few hundred billion more to P P P for small business relief. It would've. Provided three hundred dollars a week and unemployment insurance supplement would have provided by ability protection for reopening and order provided one hundred and five billion to schools. It was not going to give the hundreds and hundreds of billions to states, and that's supposedly what the. What the issue is now my opinion neck, and I'm not being partisan here. I'm just reading the tea leaves I just think they've decided they're not going to do a deal before the election. All right. I am leaving the. Big Story for last the big market story of the week you. talked a week ago about overpriced tech stocks overvalued and the air really started coming out of a lot of tech company. Big Story. That's the big story this week right. So before we go talk about the reason for that, well the. Technology sector is what created extra downside volatility in the stock market. In the latter part of asked week, some of these stocks were trading at Thirty Times. Earnings are still trading at seventy times. You look at some that are trading at one hundred and fifty times earnings the there's still plenty of frost in the technology sector. But what you're seeing the nick is at the overall market is not dropping that much. You're seeing meter ship change people coming out of overpriced tech into more better value type areas so I would not be surprised. To see ongoing volatility and technology but barn yields did not drop this week. If you were just having a foreign risk off panic out of the market, you would see all stocks going down and bonds going up in bond yields dropping. We did not see that at all and so I still think this has to do with overvaluation technology more than anything else. All right. Well, let's leave it right there. David bonds and financial analyst and adviser. Thank you so much nicer have. Bank. You. Today is Monday September fourteenth. You're listening to world radio. We're so glad you are good morning I'm Nick And I'm Mary record coming next on the world and everything in it. The World History Book today the rise of radical movement in the United States and one of its most daring attacks one hundred years ago this week. In the late nineteenth century, a radical movement was spreading around the world it fed on the rising distrust of federal governments. It's known as anarchism. Well, the anarchists are argued that all government was illegitimate harvey. Clare is America's professor of politics and history at emory university. Another movement emerged around the same time based on the writings of Karl Marx quite often the anarchist tour in conflict with with Marxists. The Marxists Focus for example, on building labor unions? Political parties they contested elections. Where they could the anarchists were opposed all that they insisted that the participate in the political system. was to concede to your enemies. The purpose was to destroy the political system and one way to do that was violence. Anarchist called it propaganda of the deed you have these bombings which Start in one, thousand, nine, hundred, fourteen, and really pick up in one, thousand, nine, hundred, thousand, nine, hundred, nineteen. Most of them are we now are pretty sure were carried out by a group of Italian immigrants called the gullion. These does with the Russian revolution and the rise of anarchist violence. The US government strengthened the espionage act of nineteen seventeen and clamped down on MINNEA- jeter's they responded with even more bombings. In Nineteen nineteen anarchist attempt to assassinate US Attorney General. Alexander Mitchell Palmer. The only casualty is the one planting the bomb. So the government is increasingly frightened and concerned. By this rise of radicalism Palmer Launch A counter-offensive by the US government. The Attorney General appoints a Justice Department lawyer head up the operation J. Edgar Hoover. Coordinates intelligence from various government sources and quickly creates a very large database of suspected anarchists and Communists. Then the government starts arresting large numbers of them. The Palmer raids which begin in one, thousand, nine, thousand, nine, hundred, and then. Carry over into nineteen twenty involved the arrest of anybody who? Was associated with several organizations. The arrests were most often the result of dragnet zoot would arrest anybody that was around them So lots of people that had nothing to do very little to do with these organizations were arrested they were held incommunicado. They were denied bail all these kinds of things which. Wind up discrediting. The rates. In the end, more than three thousand people are arrested in thirty US cities most are released but hoover deports more than five, hundred fifty. A number of the actions were overly severe and unlikely to withstand constitutional scrutiny and the evidence was awfully thin against most of the people arrested. And of course, the government eventually admitted that. At noon on September Sixteenth nineteen twenty four drawn wagon weaves its way through lunchtime crowds on Wall Street in New York City. It stops across from the JP Morgan Bank and one of the busiest corners in the financial district. The crowds are unaware that inside the wagon is one hundred pounds of dynamite as well as five hundred pounds cast iron window waits the explosives are triggered by a timer. The explosion wounds more than four hundred bystanders, thirty eight people dying, and after years of investigation, no one is ever convicted of the crime but bombings continue to be a common tactic for anarchists until the Early Nineteen Thirties. According. To history professor. Harvey Clare the threat was real but he maintains the Palmer raids were the wrong way to go about dealing with it and fact they may have made matters worse first of all it, it tends to discredit their larger aims but when you Go off you on a wild goose chase. As. You're chasing those wild geese. You may miss some real dangers. And secondly, if you accuse innocent people or people that that can prove their innocence pretty easily. You tend to make less likely that people will believe you the real cases. That's this week's world history book. I'm Paul. Butler. Today is Monday September fourteenth good morning. This is the world and everything in it from listener supported. World Radio I'm Mary Record. Anchor World commentator Kim Henderson now on the human touch. Don't be fooled by the bottle top tokens over it broke manner they play Bingo like they mean it. Zero Sixty eight and thirty two every week litany of calls rolls over the PA system like a Saturday night auction. That, before Cova closed the door I happen to possess one of those game cards with the extra large print I sat beside twenty-five residents in the facilities community room where women players I noticed outnumbered the men seven to one. Popular Mr Castle was one of the few and the proud making it. The lesser part of that ratio he told me Bingo has astounding medicinal properties. They can be in their room not starring in the word gets around that. We're about to play. He started out than whispered. Let's just say I've seen it raise the dead we laughed, Hey, a little nursing home humor never heard anybody I twenty, nine, g, twenty, seven and forty five. And forty five did it the first Bingo of the day? Didn't say it loud enough a player piped back and it was true. The majority of their being were weak. But these wise ones beg for more even before they announce could say clear your cards. I. Hardly had time to introduce myself to the competition solemn Mary Louise. Mary. Louise at anchor her free space with a piece of red plastic that once belonged to a gallon of milk and her board was filling fast. Oh, sixty one and forty be twenty, five, a little round faced lady at the center table shouted I- Bingo, her next chair neighbor wearing a necklace and Nike's didn't Flinch I wondered what she thought of her teen volunteers fingernails the PSYCHEDELIC ones helping her move tokens to the correct spaces g fifty one about that time a caregiver in Navy scrubs wandered through. He worked the crowd like an incumbent at the county fair padding and smiling all the while you're out of your chair. He admonished longhaired Barbara Barbara sat down and went onto Bingo three times before the was up. Oh seventy three, g fifty, five someone asked G. as in girl. The answer was yes and with that the final round began it was something called blackout the announcer warned she would say the letter number combos once and only once. So listen up. From her spot by the piano things got quiet even back in Mr Castell. All's corner. In Thirty Seven, Oh seventy. Time passed and suddenly it wasn't Bingo. We heard but blackout. Oh Mary Louise took the prize. Moments later wheelchairs jam the hallway, but not everyone was quick to leave Mr. Castle all pulled me aside and recounted the last round like it was an NBA final. These days nursing home volunteers like my daughter's college group and of others are wondering if they'll ever be allowed back into play games, paint fingernails and most importantly hold worship services. The local obituaries tell us one thing for sure. Mr Casta law and a host of other BINGO players sadly won't be there when they do. I'm Kim Henderson. Tomorrow real estate having we'll tell you how months of high unemployment or affecting renters and landlords, and we'll find out why one of the nation's most active. Christian groups on college campuses is celebrating a new trump administration order. that. And more tomorrow I'm Nick I and I'm Mary. Record the world and everything in it comes to you from world radio. World's mission is biblically objective journalism that informs educates and inspires the Lord Says Keep Justice Do Righteousness for soon my salvation will come in my righteousness be revealed go now in grace and Home.

professor Nick Eicher Kim Henderson United States President Oregon Samantha Harris Church Manhattan New York City David Jeffrey Poe Vardi Cova Los Angeles County Sheriff Alexander Mitchell Palmer Justice Department Converse College Michael Fox
Reset 4 Success - Stress, Sleep & Emotional Balance

Natural Curiosity

33:39 min | 1 year ago

Reset 4 Success - Stress, Sleep & Emotional Balance

"Welcome to the natural curiosity podcast. We are live on Youtube and in our facebook group with two shows, wisdom chats for the curious and. Reset for success. Be sure to visit our videos. So you can see what we look like and be sure to say I. Today's episode is the daily reset four success. Now enjoy the show. There you are I. see you out. There are audiences here today. Thank you for being here I'm lady Liu baby boomer. Babe and this is our reset for success show. It's Wednesday. We Love Wednesdays and we have wonderful people in our studio. If you will today, there's Miss Marianne she's our creator of the natural curiosity brand, our shows on facebook and Youtube, and a whole lot of other stuff that Mary does to help others have their own successful podcasts and video shows like this one. So check out match your curiosity dot life hi Marianne. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening whatever time you're watching because you know we do replace. Do and then our wonderful. Yes I had met Charlotte. During some other work I have been doing, and she is one of the most fantastic aromatherapy people that I've ever met I very impressed with her say hello to. Strap Co.. Hiding by the thank you so much for having Louise. Mary-anne I'm just so excited today to be here and be part of the show over we're excited too because we were chitchatting before the show started in Oh my Gosh Charlotte has such deep knowledge of aromatherapy and how they can help you have a healthier better lives. So I'm going to let Marion start off with the first question. How's that? Well I'm glad that you would do that for me because of course you know I have it now. I'M GONNA put the the. Thumbnail backup. So you can see the name of our show today, which is reset for success, stress sleep and emotional balance Yep. There's three things here stress their sleep an emotional balance. The first one I want to ask you about is sleep. Now I'm have the wonderful opportunity to close my eyes and I'm sleeping and so most people envy me and I could be absolute trillionaire could just figure out how we that. And share it with those people that I know that have trouble sleeping and a lot of them have trouble going to sleep. Some of them have trouble waking up in the middle of the night some of them have both they just can't sleep and they need special devices they need a tation, they need a glasses, they need quiet they need blackout state I mean, they didn't try to everything see packs you know whatever they're called and I think to myself if I could just have you what I have it would be awesome so far I know that's one of the questions I have for you is how do you help people with their sleep? So, sleep is a really big issue for people and especially when you're stressed, it really affects your sleep because when a stress during the day at ninety actually don't have the Melatonin level that you need to go into restful sleep. So you just mentioned people having trouble falling asleep waking up at night I even have people that come to me and they. Say I sleep through the night. But when I wake up in the morning I don't feel rested. I still tired an still dragging getting up. So then not getting the restful sleep that they actually need. So there are a few different essential oils that can help us when it comes to supporting sleep, but it's really truly a whole routine that I teach them. How to create a more restful sleep. So the routinely stats with you're going to battle even before you're going to that, if you can do something relaxing for yourself whether it's taking a foot, soak a lot of people have on their feet a lot during the day in they're running around a lot a foot show or bath, and you could add Roman camomile or lavender just to get some relaxing soothing sense going. Enjoying. So even if it just putting feet in a little tub with water or you're having a bathtub. Put the essential oils into some Himalayan salt. You meet a blend before we put it into the Wadi you need to blended into something that will dissolve in the water supply the drops of essential oil into some Himalayan salt, and let's say you're running a bathtub, put that salt in where the water is running streaming into the tab. So that's what you at the salt and that's how you will actually get aromatherapy bath or you know the same thing when you're doing for so and you're running the water into your little foot tap. I moved to Houston Lady Liu let me stay with her for a little while because she said, you know just until you get used to Houston and you get used to your new job and everything why don't you stay with me? So she had the most glorious Tub. Up to hear A, you didn't even on. All it was so wonderful I missed that. I. Can. But you're right. The foot bath would be the next best thing right? Exactly. So it's really the next best thing and so just trying to something relaxing before you even go to bed and then when you are laying in bed so the first five minutes just try and do some diagnostic breathing. Like Breathing basically into Bali. Counting to four reading your belly volume there on your back in having your legs at an angle to take some pressure off your lower back just breathe into your belly and hold your ballot ballot-counting to four, and then breathe out Canada four and the breathing out within time if you can extent to. That's even better. So you breathing in, you're holding your belly, you're breathing out and just do that for maybe the first five minutes laying in bed, and that's just really helps to take some stress off entire body just like releasing some of the stress from the day in you can support that with putting some essential oils. Lavender is a really good essential oil. Spike it's Mike night is from the Valerian family. So that is a really good essential oil and Spike. Yes spike not as in the Bulgarian family and its native to Nepal at also grows in China and India. And it's just really beautiful calming soothing essential oil and a lot of people don't like the Senate very much. But if we're having trouble with the asleep, it's a really great oil to put under the soles of the feet before you go to bed or lavender and Roma Kimmel Miller safe. Just put a little bit on your fingertips and Rabbit Nick. Robert here on your tracks up your neck because that's really really helps to just. Let go some of that stress w especially often keeping here you know in the back of our head in the back of our neck and our chops just apply it. There was some friction coconut oil or another carrier oil know whichever all you half at home or massage oil and just put that they're put some under the soles of your feet and do your breathing before you even trying to fall asleep. So that's a really good pride once you imbed if you're having trouble sleeping through the nights having a diffuser that runs minimum eight hours so it goes all night long you're breathing and. The essential volume. That's a really, really great idea. Again, lavender is one of the favorites with people adding vetiver to the lavender vetiver comes from the bever grass. It actually comes from their roots helps combat mind chatter. Something's got that mindset laying in bed and he'll range. Off Certain off thinking, thinking, thinking about things. So vetiver is really really amazing to calm the nine chatter. At some of diffuser Roman, camomile, beautiful spike narrowed as I mentioned earlier, another really good oil facilities, petty grain and a lot of people haven't heard about that oil either it's actually steam distilled from the leaves and twigs of the Bitter Orange Tree. and has really good soothing sleeping effects for some people. Wow. I've heard that we have to be very careful with the diffuser if we have small animals in the house, isn't that true? So that depends it's really cats and birds. I would be careful with I'm sorry I'm losing my little ear. Cats on birds would careful birth on. So if cat sleeps in your bedroom do not diffused citrus oils because cats lack an enzyme in their liver and they can metabolize citrus oil effectively. So the oils would then build up in their body because it can metabolize a man shot them out, but it's only related to citrus oils and oil so that higher in females. So those are the only two. But if you diffusing lavender lavender's beautiful Frankencense, it's awful aroma camel's beautiful. It would not hurt attack and. If you using a good quality oil because I think sometimes what seemed to as people by like oils Walmart and their virtue quality oils, and then you have some of the chemicals and adulterines and maybe fungus and mold spores and other things in because the one who do and a really good clean way, and that can actually harm animals because it's disbursed into the air and everything in. So make reason using a really really high quality well-tested essential oil if you're for yourself and when you have our animals in the house yeah. Well, you you don't have to buy sixteen different ones because they're expensive and they're the quality that you want. So I to me it was. Expensive at let let's say for instance, I buy lavender oil. Okay. That is highest quality twenty eight dollars off for a little two, hundred, forty drop. Bottle this. So. If you're using life maybe four drops at night for your bedtime team that'll bottle last two three to four months. It's really not that expensive if you think about how little you actually only have to use and how long it's GonNa last you. It pays to talk. To. Charlotte. I, mean scarlet use me. Yeah. I know her oils are first quality and yes what we all launch yeah. Yeah. Now you really if you if you're talking about your own health and keeping everybody else safe in the family and that includes our beloved paths. Really quality a safety issue and also benefit issue. if it's not a high quality oil, you might not get the benefit that you're actually. Because the the components aren't there now I have seen my next question at thank you for going into sleep because that's according to people. I don't have that problem but I do know that there's so many that do that I. I'm really wanted you to cover that. The second question I have is I've seen people as a matter of fact, lady Liu gave me a gift wants and it's a necklace and you put the oils in to a necklace, and then you breathe that oil all day. How is that good for you is that? Is Very beneficial way of using essential oils very personally to you because you know you're wearing your diffuse a necklace, you're having your essential oils on them and actually really only are. Exposed to it, you know breathing it. And that can really support it can't support emotional balance can support your respiratory system can't support immune system depending on which oils adding to your diffuse Annapolis I Francis also aware aromatherapy bracelets and so they have Nov beats on them. So I can in the morning I, could like drop off a certain oil that at one for the day onto lobbied beach, and then during the day, you can just smell it and it's right there on my wrist and s marlet and the send x. stays up to twenty four hours on. Most. This a little bit because I think it's so important. Think about. I can have one smell like I can walk by a plant like a flower or something I can. Just, a brief smell, and it can bring me back to my childhood. It can bring up all kinds of feelings emotions. With just a little tiny sniff of something so I can see how these oils would really help. So let's start talking about stress now. One. Of the things that I had a happened to me was I was going into a stressful situation. I had three days to think about it. I worked myself up to a frenzy went by the time I was walking in the door to this event. I was shaking I was shaking before even I talked to the lady and So I thought to myself when you were talking about this I thought now that would have been a perfect time for me to wear the necklace to have some stress relief type of oil in there. What do you? What would what would have been really great unhelpful for you would have been a combination off citrus oils because citrus oils are naturally distressing so they. Stress at the same time, they put us into a good mood. Our energy levels and. Blended like wild orange maybe with something grounding because you said, you were anxious thinking at the meeting and working yourself up to. Calm down that anxiousness oils like seeing the woods Cedar Wood. Frankencense, know they're just how very help us calm. Roman camomile help us calm those whom so excited on. So anxious excited, you know emotions. So combine in different oils like would've really helped. You relieve some of that stress and help you feel more common centered. Working yourself towards that Another thing that could have been really helpful to you something that I teach is like a morning routine just to have like a really grounding morning routine already. Setting you up for that day. So you're not jumping out of bed right away when you alarm goes off and you're thinking right Wyoming gotta get myself ready for this meeting and all the emotion start rushing in. But just for the first fifteen to twenty minutes to do something very grounding and soothing for yourself, which could again the breathing routine that I teach before we fall asleep. So during back in the morning when you wake up with a grounding oil under the soles of your feet right away. And then doing something for fifteen minutes of makes you. Feel calm centered imbalanced. So whether that is meditation whether you like to sit and pray but you just like and sets. Listening to some Zan who music and maybe doing some really relaxing yoga poses even going for a walk windfall walk around the block but not thinking about what you have to do that day walking around the block. Being in the moment like you're. Paying, attention to your breath. How my breathing? How do my feet sound on the pavement when I'm walking? Would you know what I knew? I wanted to tell you guys about this is so exciting. So for those of you who are out there thinking about how you could do what she just told you to do I think this one is at least for me is is so exciting. So I decided it's Kinda cool here. Now it's like between sixty and eighty during the day, and so we're really excited the humidity's dropped down and I. Thought this is the perfect time to get out there and start walking in the morning, right? So. I. Have a cute little thing that I carry with me at all times. It's called a cellphone right but it has a fantastic camera on it. So I have started a new program for myself not for anybody else. Called, my morning view. and. So it's a project that I'm doing. So every morning, I'm finding something that I can take a picture of that. It's a beautiful flower tree or a a frog or whatever I find outside and even looking out here like I'm on the twelfth floor now overlooking all of Houston and it's gorgeous sometimes especially in the morning that bright sunshine you know this common and I'm just finding ways to relax myself in the morning I'm not one of those stressed out people in the morning I wake up and I have a big old smile on my face for some reason, I'm not sure why I'm still thinking how can I? Love myself more. Yes. You know and. To do it. That is so beautiful because that is really part of what teaching for the morning routine that if you take your walk to really be in the moment and just look around you to take the beauty taken the sounds, what are you seeing? What are you hearing? What are you feeling checking in with yourself again ADDS, members that are saying, hi, this is jody and she's loving paying attention. And, the thing is when a thought comes in, we can't block thoughts and we should never block any type of thoughts or emotions. We have to learn a way to let them pass through us. Let the DOT come in. Say Okay I'm GonNa pay attention to that. Later you know, let it pass through in just really stay in the moment and pay attention to breeding he attention to your surroundings and take that fifteen minutes, and then when you come home and you go in the shower to get some energy for the day and some really. Good mood get spirit. Put. A little bit of filed orange and peppermint essential oil allowed orange and eucalyptus essential in the shower. So you have like this aromatherapy like steam shower and just the combination of orange and peppermint a helps audit, get into home stasis, creating balance and creating some joy and. Energy so that really great for people that have a really hard time in the mornings just. Getting into the right mood for the day and just getting themselves going and it's just a beautiful retain. What do you do with the oil? You put it on your body or you put it on a squash put its you can drop it like onto maybe if you have a lava rock in our Padilla Little Laverick. Have elaborate in the in the shower that he put the oil on don't put it Where the water hits so it's not like now cleaning oils off of that spot but in a spot in the shower heads just to the steam, you know it's just creating aromatherapy experience a little lab Iraq in the shower works really vile. You could also just drop it like answer spot in the shower on the shower floor where the water is intending direct link. Okay. Well, where do we get those Volvo? Bracelets? you can really purchase them online like I make bracelets. So it's also pride on my website because you know it's a supportive tool for people that love using the essential oils I, make the lava bracelets. But if you just WANNA purchase like a little lava rock, you know you can put in the shower I would search online for it may. I want both I WANNA law rock and I WANNA love a bracelet. So I'm going to go to your website with this down below Oscar scrolling across the screen right now it's my oil guide dot com. So you don't probably know this yet scarlet, but we have not only are Limon's but we have people who replay these videos and we also have a podcast that they. Can listen to you. So a lot of times as you're talking about things if you can spell it out or you can let him know what your website is, it really helps because they're driving down the road and they want this information. So one of the things I like to tell people is if you go to our youtube channel not only can you see what we look like? Which? Don't get all the links on tune with like the website of the guests that we have on today we have a fantastic guests who keeping me like glued. Every rush sang and and you might WanNa see it again or sheer that video was somebody. So if you go to youtube and you look up Marian Lasalle, you'll see the natural curiosity banner you'll know where you are find this particular. Video and then doubt right down below it is a share button and you can sure it on Lincoln and facebook and Youtube and not youtube. Sorry already on. Youtube. Or you know send it to a friend. He has. This is the kind of stuff that we need to share with our loved ones, our family, our friends, Riley Little Yeah I wanNA tell what we're having in our newsletter next week. Oh good. You GotTa subscribe to our newsletter because it goes out every Monday morning early and it's called natural curiosity. Is the website where you can go to subscribe and it's called Community News Right Marian forgotten community needed. And Shar scarlet has a a recipe if you will for fizzy off tell him what a Paul is. So, only ladies asked me to provide a recipe. Amas was thinking you know holidays are coming up in Albany love to give gifts our loved ones and maybe even pamper ourselves. Be Great to teach people how to make athems. shower amounts, and so it has to complete recipe in like all the ingredients that you need, which essential oils you could use, and you can start making those little fuzzy boss bath bombs, show amounts, and give them as little beautiful gifts to to help them either relax at night you love and Dan Ronan Humi on just something relaxing or something to help them wake up in the mornings with your wild orange complement, and so I just wanted to share that with everybody. Well, it surprised me when you sent that recipe over, it's not a recipe. It just wasn't for Food L.. I just couldn't wait to tell people and I call them fuzzy malls fuzzy bombs. Oh. You have so much fun on these shows and we share so many great wonderful things. I. Tell You I don't want to keep it a secret. I know that you know we're the we're the people that are doing it, but we love it so much. We want everybody to to share in all the good stuff that we're that we're sharing because people like you that are really helping the world and that's important. You know there's a lot of people tearing the world down and we need more of you scarlet helping people reset and feel better and. and to share this good stuff with everybody. Thank you. Sometimes, it's really the little things. You know what I mean at some such really little things here and there that you can do for yourself during the day to really lower your stress levels and manage stress better sleep better and because when we are so stressed and we are not in managing it, will it really manifest itself physically you know people develop high blood pressure more risk for heart attack headaches, digestive issues. A lot of digestive issues people are dealing with can be reverted back to the. Root course could be stress or big contributing factor could be stress a lot of the autumn. Moon. Disorders can be related back to stress the study that I came across that really surprised me. It was a study out of Sweden and they monitored monitored for thirty years. Some very long study, a hundred thousand people. In relation to stress. So if somebody had a stress are diagnosed. LIKE PTSD or chronic stress, they were out of forty thirty to forty percent higher chance of developing an auto immune disease during their lifetime. Sorrow it just the manifestation of stress onto our physical wellbeing just incredible at lowest our immune system, inflammation and the body rises. So achey joins achey muscles. It all starts setting in management issues, tendencies towards addictions eating too much or too many sweets smoking too much or. Drinking a glass of wine every night because otherwise I can wind down you know what she saying. This is this is so true. If you are eating sweets, you think you're just don't have you know good what do you call it our full or willpower? Yeah. But in reality it may be that you're so stressed out that. You feel like that's the only way that you can relieve some of that pressure citizens. This is so big as as lady loose says, this is so big. Know. There's no categories in essential oils. When when people come to me and they're just coming to me with a physical issue that's the addressed issues and is like we have to look at your stress levels. We have to look at your sleep. We have to look at emotional balance because all of that could be at the road of very big contributing factor to what your stomach issues are and even by and maybe give you some essential oils that help support digestive issues if we don't work on stress if we don't work on emotional balanced. Work better sleep will never be really well, you know what I mean. We'll tell US briefly why it's so important to put the essential oils on the bottoms of our feet. So the bottom of the fetus just. Great way for us to absorb the essential oils fast and bloodstream under the souls defeat. We have the largest force and so when we apply on this defeat, it goes into a bloodstream with thirty seconds. INSERT SECONDS IT gets circulated I heart pumping out blood through our entire bloodstream, and then from the bloodstream actually enters the body tissues and found the body tissues. It gets to the organs and that takes about thirty minutes in our bodies very smart they now what to take from it and where to use it. And everything else gets out again. So we don't store essentials bodies everything gets shed out through our. Urine through breathing through a lance through our skin, we eliminate all these essential oils we take in by breathing applying to body over a period of four to six hours. So we WANNA have a sustained effects from using essential oils. We need to reapply them or we use them or re smell them because you're storing them you know, and so you on the bombs of you would you just like massage it into are you can? Like under a middle under the bottom of your foot. If you're looking at reflects solid charts of your feet, and you can find those online while they're really amazing tools. Let's say you're having justice issues or you're having a headache, you can apply it right on the sole of your foot where your reflect solid, she point us. Responding Oregon. So that is another really cool way of how to apply them under the solo feeds to connect mystere massage. Dan. That spot. Yeah. Okay I didn't know that that's fabulous. Saying, we knew this was gonna be a good show. I have learned so much I've been around essential oils for a long time in. The one of the things you sat in one of those other meetings that you and I did with another lady of our friend, Eileen Dillon. You said something about having an essential oil for nightmares my nephew and his daughter have nightmares. Yes. I, you know I never thought about a grown man having nightmares. He's fifty and he had a nightmare the of night. Not An essential oil from. Yes. It's actually I can make a blend that I call a night terror blends, but the main essential oil in it that helps with nightmare juniper, Berry, juniper, juniper berries, juniper berry helps us release irrational fears and helps us to not have nightmares in. I can really speak to that because I was really plagued with nightmares when I started using essential oils just because of what had happened. Prior of the trauma that I had been through prior in my life and I was having nightmares all the time and juniper berries s amazing. It's really amazing. Consistency is really the point. Two's you know. So just at that Juniper, you're having nightmares that journey prepared to your nighttime routine of essential oils. Would it under the sole of your foot maybe added dropped diffuser and sleep with that every single night oh hey. Man I have to get some I'll be talking to you good. How do we reach you besides your email our website? Rather as you have, you got an email Oh and you've got a special offer for us have you. Her. So I'm not website my old guide dot com there is a program, it's a stress management. Stress Management and living program. So it's called Calm and it's a six week. Online self paced program that can help you. Reset. Not feel so stress not feel so Obama feels to irritate and agitate not feel so worried like all these emotional stay just got into when we have too much stress and there's actually a free portion to it. So when you go to the program, the first video is free in in that first video it's about twenty, five, thirty minutes long Moron I'm are Hutchison I have put this program together for you we share about three transformational techniques that you can learn and that. Free portion that would put together that will help you to lower stress levels when really stressful situation. So just learning those three free you can do and if you like overdoing talking a little bit more during this twenty, five minutes about what the program entails like, what are you learning and how you learning it, and what are the tools that we are sharing Then you can take that program online and right now because of Kobe, it's only ninety seven dollars. For, six weeks and. With an aromatherapy kit so everything that I'm teaching with the Roma therapy portions off that six hundred cores you getting oil for it the programs usually much more expensive because of Kobe, we know so many people suffering right now. So stressed out Maura I really felt we wanted to give back. So we put the price down to ninety seven dollars so they just go to your website to sign up. Yes and it's under the bonus starts here and you'll find it right there and it's distress management program. Thanks. For joining us today, we really appreciate you. Lady Liu. Thank you for our guest beaming here today helping us reset our lives. We I met you and we want to see you again very soon you bought. Much for having me. Thank you probably we. Thank you for joining us for today's show. Remember it's our pleasure to bring you interesting co host and topics. So connect with US often we're looking forward to the next time we're together by for now.

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Big Little Lies | Season 2 Premiere Recap

Post Show Recaps

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Big Little Lies | Season 2 Premiere Recap

"The season two premiere of big little lies, what have they done is over. But we are just getting started here on push recap. So everybody, I am Josh Wigger, and I am joined here by woman who insists that she is not wearing fake teeth. The teeth is wearing are entirely her own. They are, but you are of like a modest height. So I believe that we can trust you. You're trustworthy person, Emily heels to this Emily FOX in the podcast studio. How are you, Emily? So who are we planning to kill who are we planning to kill? We're planning to kill time for you on a rainy Monday in, in New York City. Maybe not rainy wherever it is. You are listening to this podcast and let's be honest. It's probably not Monday anymore, by the time that this podcast is airing, maybe it is. But either way. We are here talking the first new episode of big little lies since twenty seventeen I was just looking at it online, actually I didn't realize we had a whole break. Yeah. Well, it's been a long time. I mean, I think that HBO they, they like sharp objects filled that space that was left in the void women could, we've covered otherwise. I know right there. They're back with, with a second season and we and I have already recorded our preview shows that this is our second big little lies podcast. Hopefully, you listened to that one in this isn't a total blindside that this podcast exists though, if it does exist, hopefully, a happy, blindside hope hopefully you're up for that. We've been really touched by the response really big response from from those of you out there who are listening to this and showed a lot of excitement and appreciation for the existence of what we had called on the podcast. Big little guys, but has since been rebranded, by the. The great Brendan Fitzpatrick behind the push recaps Twitter. Account wig little is. And I've also seen bigwig allies. I Emma said like bigwig allies, and that I was like, I gotta stop widow law, skirt that have been cute. I would've liked it which do you like more wig, little lies or bigwig allies? I like wig little little lies. So wait, little lies is happening right now as the great Emily FOX, my wonderful wife as joined me for another season of podcasting any regrets yet don't you feel angry? The only regret that I have is like your wet Streep, just look like you're deep in your phone right now. Keep holding your phone, but I just I can't tell if like you're if you're in this or not are you in this Unum? So in that my notes are pulled up. Okay. So you want for me. I want I want to podcast I'm going to do a great job. I want you to do a great job living with you. I have so much to live up to you. You've a lot. You've lots of live up to a very big deal. I don't know if you know this about me your. Very wig deal. Very wait till you have nothing to live up to. I, I am nothing. I am. Nobody. I am the son of a wonderful mother, who is, who is listening to this podcast, very likely right now shout out to mama wigs, who is going to be along for the ride audience here on wig little lies which I promise we will not censor any of our commentary she has she has opted into listening on this podcast at her own risk. Any awkward commentary? It just we can't we can't censor ourselves. We can't check ourselves. We just have to pretend like we're podcasting without my mother listening in. Okay. Are you comfortable with that? Of course, I am so sorry in advance, we're gonna say very awkward and terrible. Things we are. I certainly am. I promise that context of the show. Yeah. But like, like your own relation like, are you like my mom would show up with fake teeth? Well, no, I death why I wasn't magin that, like what if I had died under mysterious circumstances, and like my mother came to live with you and are twins? And came to live with you and the twins to, like, help like reconcile things and get things back to normal. And if she was like mega suspicious that something like dark and sinister had happened to me. I mean, my mom is the nicest human being on the planet, but I think she blow her top ones. Mom would be upset if their son died under the circumstance, she would have a huge scream of grief, and it would be it would be very alarming at the dinner table. Yeah. Probably remember when you had a huge scream of grief last night. Yeah. We were getting out of context horribly personal. We're getting not very flattering for me. Yeah, thanks for this. You really set me up here now we're getting ready to go to bed and you call to me from the bathroom to be like Amer you listening. And I looked up and in that moment, there was a giant centipede on the wall, right next to our bedroom wood down a screamed really, really loud, much like Meryl Streep had screamed just a few minutes earlier, as we were watching the big little lies like everyone every thirty seconds and the show is, which we've also been binge-watching, as you may have to check out a different time cast to get our takes on. Is the pilot the pilot season by Michael j Clarke, that is an episode that I will be featured on in the not too distant future. So shout out to Michael who will also be featured here in this podcast not terribly long from now because he is one of the many people who sent in feedback and by many people, I mean, not a ton of people yet, but we're really we're in our infancy here on wig little lies. This is episode one really easy to get your feedback into us Poche. Oh, recaps dot com slash feedback is the direct form. It'll send us an E mail that's really easy for us to collate and collect. So I love that form. But if you want to tweet at us that is also chilled. That's really cool. You can do that lease at Emmett like an omelet with an E instead of the. Oh, yeah. Why are you staring at me? Like you're doing a great. Okay. Well, it just felt like I said it wrong I'm at round. Howard. That's me. Did I say omelette weird? I said, I'm Elit as if that's how you pronounce on what? That's what I got checking. All right. But you can tweet your feedback to us that way you can also tweet to the post show. Recaps Twitter account at post show, recaps that those are the those are the best ways to, to get your feedback in as we've said before recording these mostly on Mondays they got a little bit of a turnaround, a huge amount of space to get your to get your feedback in, but we'd love to have that we'd love to be able to dissect your thoughts all season. Long would also love it. If you subscribe to post show recap so that you can listen to what we are doing here on the big little lies podcast Poche show. Recaps dot com slash I tunes to subscribe, an tunes. We're just subscribe on whatever podcast platform of choice you choose us, we do not have a dedicated feed yet, for big little lies. I'll look into that. So for now just subscribe to the main Poche oh, recos feed, not a ton of activity outside of big little lies right now on the post show recap side of things anyway. So you'll mostly beginning a pretty filtered, big little lies speed for the next little while though, I will. Teas that a good friend of mine who I've not podcast with in a very long time. He and I are going to be getting together for a little bonus coverage of, of something rather delayed later this week. So keep an ear out for that. We also have the throne owners the game of thrones award show. Our final game of thrones podcast is going to be coming your way next week voting ends tonight, as we are recording this June tenth. So again, maybe a little late. Lots of boats have already come in. We're really excited about that. We're gonna have a really fun show for you there. So keep an ear out for all of that. You like when I say that keeping your out for all of that, I keep thinking of ear wigs, which are close cousins of centipedes. Yes. Friends of mine, the air wigs we get along rather. Well, wow, your wig, your weight little lies. All right. Let's let's, let's hit it into the episode proper because we're almost ten minutes. And we haven't really talked about little lies, which is unfortunate start. But we have a lot of business. Get through up front season two of big little lies. It is upon us. We now kind of wondered like what's the what's the show going to look like in a second season this originally conceived as done in one novel and so it done in one miniseries of the show one and done. I've met one and done, but it was done. You can also say it was in one book, it was done in one season, and it is now going to be done in at least two seasons. Who knows if it's going to if it's going to have life beyond this, but I think that these actors obviously just loved working together. I think that the team involved in creating the show loved working together. We have a different director on board as we've mentioned in our preview show. Andrea Arnold is has stepped behind the camera in place of Jean-Marc valet who was such a tone setter, for the first season of the show. And I don't know if you noticed got a special, thanks at the end of the credits. So clearly a lot of reverence. To the person who kicked off the, you know, the direct Oriels. I'd little is it is not as involved for for season two, but just even before we get into what happened in the episode for you Emily did did the first episode like justify the existence of a second season of big, little lies were you satisfied with this. Did you feel like this is a good choice? I'm glad that they went back to the well, I might be coming from the perspective of we could have let this exists with ally where. Yeah. Interesting how come I sort of feel like the dialogue, while it's obviously the same characters in the same people didn't feel a smooth chur feels a little bit more contrived this time around and I don't know. I think maybe it's because I'm sitting there with a critical eye knowing that the book was written, and we sort of finished off the book and the first season at the second season is sort of, like. Uncharted territory where we're going to go at this. I think as I, I re washed it again, because I wanted to sort of take notice of smaller things, and I liked it better, the second time I watched it. Yeah. So I don't know if I was being a little bit too judgy in critical of it just because I was like, really close to the original because the original was so good. Are we? Are we beating a dead horse by doing this? Is it really necessary to do, but then Merrill, won me over, and I was like okay well signed on to this. There's got to be some juicy bits throughout this. Oh, many juicy bits. Everybody knows that juicy bits I kind of agree with you, and I, or at least I agree with you to the point where like I was a little cocky about it. I was excited that you and I were gonna have an excuse to podcast together and lower per season. And so I, I was, I was going to be happy about all of this anyway. But I think when the we got into the opening credits and the theme song is just like it was slightly different in our Castro track in the background, and they put strings in. And so it just kind of felt like a little bit off right off the bat and then I saw in the opening credits. I saw the and Meryl Streep and you know how they for all the leading women on the show. They show them driving the car from the backseat perspective still in. See turtle was still there. But I think it was what I saw for. The turtle in the credit, Emily loves the credits. When, when I saw the when I saw Meryl Streep in the front seat I was like, okay I can't, I can't be anything but really excited. Right. Like upon second watch, I was like, okay, yeah. Yeah, I hear, I think it took some getting used to. It was a little bit. I mean it's definitely feels different directors are gonna be different. I suspect that's probably why what I noticed most feels like a little brighter. The coloring feels, just like it just kind of feels like a brighter show. There's some like aesthetic changes. Yeah. There's like different haircuts and stuff. You're not a bang Smith. Not necessarily it was just it was just a little things look a little different in season two. And so that was that was noticeable for me. It took a little bit of getting used to as it always does. None of this stuff is seamless. If you if you stop fill year and are creating a brand new scripted storyline. Right. But I think oddly enough, I was really I was really went over by the complexity of the Meryl Streep character. I like that. It seems like this first season isn't in the same way building up to a future event so much as it's looking backward. You know, I think that like you're kind of through the looking glass of the of the big karaoke debacle. Yeah, we're through the looking glass like the entire first season is building up to what's going to happen on this night. Now, we know so now rather than building up to some other traumatic event, I'm sure that they're going to be traumatic events along the way. And I'm sure that there will even be like a big traumatic event by the end of the season, but it doesn't feel like. Setting that up in the same way talking heads are done with. We're not doing like we're still going into the interrogation room to agree. But we're checking in with with the Monterey five. I like that. Branding, by the way. We're checking with the Monterey five instead of all these other talking heads. We're now more characters on the show like the principal is like actively like worried about gluten free cupcakes and baked goods and stuff like that. Right. But, like do I care to know more about him, maybe not? And he makes a snide joke about like services only being reserved. No. Ed is the snide one. He's this night one. You're right. That's right. Sorry, that word so fresh in my mind. Fresh so many. I know. Yeah, he's really hard f- describing, I don't know. I don't care about some of these referral characters anymore than I did in the last season. So I don't really care to know about what the more one episode right? Like it's one. The other piece of it. And so, I was I was sucked in by by Merrill, as Mary Louise, who really talk about more. I liked that. It seemed to be kind of like rather than rather than like trying to like swim really far out and find like what's the next island out there? Like, what's the next storyline that we really need to ourselves to and rather than doing that? Feels like it's sinking. Right. Like it sinking into the vortex of this horrible thing that happened and why did there need to be ally about it? That's something that even wondered about. I love that part where everyone's like, we'll Madeline just came up with this, and you're all going along with it. And why couldn't we just be straightforward from the get-go? So I think that that's really exciting. I think that it's a Smart Choice, rather than, you know, rather than really giving us something to look forward to. I think it was a really smart creative choice to give something that we're reflecting back on it because there's so much more information that we know about, like, we didn't know anything really from. We didn't know. We didn't know how Jane like interacted with Perry. For instance, like the big cataclysmic event that came out of that, but knowing that it was Perry, that was father in that it was Perry that raped Jane like ads this horrible human face to this horrible atrocious act. And I feel like being able to dig into the character elation ships, now, between Jane and Celeste, and keeping Perry kind of in the mix, as bogeyman we're seeing these nightmare sequences, where's even seeing flashbacks and stuff? I think it's a compelling choice that the thing that really, really want me over was the episode is like forty five that's it forty two. I don't I don't have the exact Runtime but man, more fortyish minute dramas in this day and age. Please. Run time. It was it was wonderful. I was thrilled. I think that they're probably a lot of people who are disappointed by that, that, like it was nine forty four and we were already at the credits. And I think that the episode began at, like nine three. Yeah I'm fine with that. I'm happy with that. I think that going a little bit shorter a little bit tighter. I've got no issue at that whatsoever. So I think that this has the potential to be a really briskly told, obviously, incredibly acted compellingly directed, the editing still in place. A lot of those choices of, you know, letting things kind of speak for themselves rather than really leaning on a moment too long. I love all of that. So in a lot of ways, like it feels a little bit different and feels like if there's a big little lies a little bit of a new coat of paint, on the house feels like the same house. I craved the structure that we had in season one, and I think that sort of colored my sort of judgement on it to where I was like, oh, I really loved, how jumping all over the place. And this one seems a little bit more fluid even though it's, it's basically. Book ended by Celeste having terrible nightmares, which I think is really creative in a way where she's just like going through all of these motions and Harry's in it and horrible things are happening. And then Mary Louise there, each time, she wakes up, she's a real nightmare. Look lurker will. Yeah. Terrifying right as we sort of unveil each of these layers, where she's very she snide. She's little. All of those good things. Let's, let's delve into all day. I think it'd be better than digging into it seen by seeing, I think it would be better to just like kind of go into each character story and sort of focus in that way. But in broad strokes the season premiere takes place several months, at least after Perry's death. I don't think probably quite a full year. But it's a new year. It's second grade. It's the start of second grade. It was first grade. And I write book, it's kindergarten first grade for the show. And then obviously this second grade, the children are growing up. They look bigger that weird. These big little guys, like they're they're really growing up before our. Big little is. We've got you know, everyone is we've got like the season to season to glow up for so many of these different characters. The show is beginning at the start of second grade. And everybody is carrying the secret of what happened very differently. And it seems like these women are drawn closer to. Gather in, in some ways, like Renata is hanging out in a car with, you know, three of the other women that was sort of a meeting of the minds, though. But, like we're seeing like they're interacting a little bit more. It feels like they're bonded by this traumatic event. I do think that a lot of the character dynamics that we are seeing in this first episode make it pretty clear that the is going to stop working at some point and the not race of it. He says, you know, at some point in the not-too-distant future. I think that a lot of this stuff is the carts gonna fall apart, and we see a bit of that already in this episode that Bonnie is taking it really hard. Madeline is really trying to just kind of tell the company line Celeste is trying to deal with the fact that she has this very big presence in her household in Mary Louise, also her own feelings on the marriage or complicated, which I think, is cool. Gene is Jane seems like she's doing pretty well yeah she upgraded, she's living in a great love you. Looking apartment. But, but there really is bangs now husbands are doing their thing. Everybody's kind of just like basically the same exact person. The kids, not a ton to talk about in that realm yet. I know we're seeing more of Josh and max interacting a little bit. Yeah. We are seeing more of that. So we don't know exactly what those stories are billing to quite yet. But I think that we can we can take stock of where everybody stands, and let's start with, you know, the essential main character of the show, it's an samba. But if there's, if there's one who sort of at the forefront, I think it's Reese Witherspoon as, as Madeleine who NC one. She's unemployed fulltime mom now. She's not. She works part time at the community theater. Right. She had just brought that onto herself because she had spent a longtime being unemployed fulltime. Mar she wanted to build that into her life. Did we get a sense of what happened to avenue? Q. Did it did it? Go forward doesn't mention as really say, we always see is the inner director's wife wife. Yeah. We haven't we haven't seen him we haven't seen. I think. Joseph, I believe, is in the prototype. Josef Bachmann, played by Sanogo Cabrera or as hero Nakamura prefers to call him Isaac Mendez, the great comic book illustrator with the ability to, to see the future through to render the future through through his art. All right. Real back, perhaps avenues. You is the storyline of new Q will be instructive for how big little lies will end. So, you know, go back and studied the puppets. Now you're not going to do it. So hit we haven't seen him yet. But Madeline she's a realtor now. Yeah. Selling houses, and she's apparently killing it. Crushing the game. Yeah. She's doing really well, like printing money in Monterey. Yeah. That's what she says. Do you like that? This is something that she's poured her energy into. She seems like how do you feel like she's processing everything that's happened? Like she mental is like she has everything else in her life. Yeah. It's pretty clear. Yeah. She's really poured her energy into making sure that she's distracted perfectionism man. Yeah. She's feel that she's. No idea what you're talking about. But it's, it's not even like she's really kind of like mama bearing the lie. Mama bearing the five. Yeah, well, I think that she's she, she understand we see in this episode that things with Abigail with her with her daughter are out of her control at the very least whether you want to, like, make value judgment on what it is Abigail wants to do Abigail wants to be part of this startup this for profit for homeless housing. And she doesn't want to go to college, and mandolin takes that very, very personally because I guess Madeline didn't go to college. She was too young of a mom, apparently got it, so she, she didn't get the chance. And she's that her daughters gonna be flipping burgers. She's gonna be working, WalMart whatever you know, she's worried for for her daughter because she, I think she looks back on her own life and wishes that there were things that she could have done differently. I mean, doesn't everyone put that on their kids. Well, I mean, even beyond kids, I think grass is greener is one of the most universal feelings of. Like you're you're on your track. And you can't help. But think about what's on the parallel track. Even though you would hop over to the parallel tracking. I wonder what's on the parallel track, you know, there's a little tracks every parallel, which lanes and traffic knows this feeling the point is we'll never be satisfied always feel a little bit empty. Sort of like this dead air that just occurred us. You don't know how to respond to that. We got we got to work on that. All right. So battling Natalie. Matal then it just very dramatic pause. So Madeleine is she's boring a lot into this. And she seems like she's really trying to control the situation and it turns out that she was the one who got everybody to agree upon the lie. Which is kinda surprising to me that everybody played along with that considering Madeline was wasted at the karaoke at the charity event. And like what did she like sober up enough immediately to be like, we gotta lie about this, and here's the plan and everyone's like true. True. Okay. So here's the thing. If you everybody else was stone cold sober. I think where it was close enough, even if they had one drink a little bit lubricated to greed to something that is very traumatic that just happened front of their eyes and they only have a few minutes to really collectively figure out what to do. I just think that it's a prize at the person who pounded like nine drinks. Address, and three you when I watched the finale before we watched the premiere like right before she has, like three drinks in one shot in the aren't they are like small, I, but, like, here's the thing, I'm just shocked that everybody is following her lead on that, and that she had the wherewithal to come up with a plan in everybody else's again on that makes a lot more that makes sense. What do it's fight or flight? I guess, and they were all like you're flipping out because all of this stuff just happened. So quickly escalated, you know, in a matter of minutes. Yeah. So what do you do you all get together you huddle and say, okay, how are we gonna get out of this right either way the following her lead, it does feel like at the very least Bonnie, maybe she'll be like kind of catalyst for this. But she seems like the one who's like, I don't know why. Well, she has the heaviest burden to bear killed man. Yeah. It's a big deal now nothing is not nothing. It's not especially since she came out of nowhere. Did it book? I've been reading she. She has much more of a character arc. So it makes more sense, why she would be involved in this now that I have enough distance from both things. I'm seeing that are they kind of transposing the character arc from the book into season two does it seem like I don't really know yet. Okay. It's not enough of the season for me to really make judgment on that. She does seem kind of out of left field with the murder in the show versus how she's portrayed in the book. Okay. We'll see see where that goes binds parents are going to be characters in season two. Oh, so maybe there's, they're going to dig deeper into into Bonnie. We'll, we'll get into her in a little bit through through Madel in, even though this character is, is most directly connected to Celeste, and we'll talk about Celeste in a moment, think, Madeline leads us really nicely into just like let's stop bearing the le-. Let's talk about Meryl Streep. Mary Lou e Mary effing. Louise, mary. Louise Wright is the character that Meryl Streep is playing, and I'm so happy that we have seven full weeks of this character. What, what an instantly? Nomination. Oh, yeah. I think probably, I would guess a locked up an EMMY win for Maryland. Right. Meryl Streep market down everyone. I think I would I mean I don't know who competes. I don't know who competes when you've got Meryl Streep putting in fake teeth. I know to align herself, and maybe you didn't notice this brevity on herself to align herself very we's as played by Meryl Streep Meryl Streep is is has fake teeth to play this character. And I noticed instantly that something something unusual was happening with Meryl Streep's mouth that doesn't look like Meryl Streep's mouth, something is different here. And it turns out that she is wearing fake teeth for the part of Mary Louise this year. There's an article on Volker today that dives into that a little bit more and it was her decision. It was a Meryl Streep choice that she wanted her teeth to more closely visit line without Zander, scars. Yards so that she looks away. Perry's mother. And that's, that's true, dedication, right. Then ultra article is written hilariously either way. It's very funny read. And it does a lot of going back and forth between like gifts of Alexander Skarsgard, as Perry and Meryl Streep as Mary, Lou really wants Dylan to come into this. I mean, that would be incredible stone scars problem with still in scars guard as he can't do a great American accents. He's fine. That doesn't have to be American. I guess that's true because he could just be stone, scars he'd be like came over from Sweden. Why am I like even what universe in my living in where I'm trying to pooh-pooh, more stone Skarsgard? Yeah. Practically live in a glass house. How could glass house indeed Chernobyl just ended stone guard? He's, he's tied into the HBO family. I would be it'd be thrilled maybe season three let's just keep meeting. Is any power over still in scars guard or any other Swedish actors, Robin note to HBO. If you have the stone Skarsgard charm voodoo doll. And I know one of you does I want you to, to March that Rudol into HBO headquarters and demand a meeting and get him into the room, and then everything will fall into place beyond that Meryl Streep fake teeth to look more, like Alexander Skarsgard gonna win an EMMY that's an EMMY winning decision and his commitment. Yeah. I mean it's impressive. So let's talk about her. Let's talk about her chilling in how freaky issue and it's a, it's a, it's a very, funnily written article it's very I laughed a lot reading it. But there was there was a great point that it that it stressed in, in that Volcker piece that talks about, like, you know, beyond the utility of making mary-louise, look more like Perry's mother, and I think like that's a little bit debatable. I don't know how much of a job it's accomplished there. It is giving you some strange distance from this icon ick. Actor that you're, you know, Meryl Streep so well. And you've seen her in a thousand different things, and she's so recognizable. You know, she is one of the most famous human beings on the planet, one of the most accomplished, and gifted performers of our lives. And she's, she's dropped into this character and just like something a little bit off something a little bit different something, a little lake there was this sort of as the volt trapeze, 'cause it like this uncanny valley quality about her because you're like something's wrong with her mouth like that doesn't look like Meryl Streep, and I think it does in that regard. I think it does a highly effective job of absorbing you into the work that she is doing this character. Attling that always happens with her where she she melts into whatever she does, what makes her so good. Yes. So she's fully melted into the role of Mary Louise, who we see very quickly. Like she's I interacting with Celeste, like, she's, she's there when Celeste is having nightmares, and she's really at her side. She's defending Celeste in the car ride. With the boys, the boys are not treating their mother. Respectfully, so it's sending all of us up to be like, what a great support system. She has now it's like the first tube. Billy great screams from Mary Louise, she's screaming and defense of Celeste, she talks about how fine young gentlemen, started fine, young boys, a great lesson, take heed, but you get to get to see her fangs literally in the in the form of like you really start to notice the teeth. But you really get to see the fangs when she opens her mouth and goes, and you really get to see her chewing on scenery as she as she as she is sipping some. Coffee at the cafe, where Madeleine and Celeste are both going after drop off, and it's the first exchange of assume, many, but tween Mary, Louise, and Madeleine who they must've PAT's must have crossed the funeral but they don't know each other terribly. Well and gloves off right away. But in that passive aggressive way. That's so much fun where Mary Louise. She says very short, but I don't I don't mean that in a negative negative way. But maybe I do like she's like immediately dismissing nice. It's great. Yeah. It's so great because Reese Witherspoon is incredible. And I think an underrated actress I think that she's, she's, she's obviously icon IQ and she's super fun in most things that she's in. But I think often like, we underrate just how super talented she is. And to see her in this role with her brand of energy, going up against Meryl Streep as Mary Louise. It's really, really combustible. Yeah, I agree. I agree Superfund to see the two of them like little lenses that she's like snooty ING over everything. Everything about her aesthetic is awesome, just like the short haircut glasses the way that she her posture yet. The teeth. Yeah. You feel tremendous judgment just being in the same room watching her. Yeah. And you're not even seen by her. You know what I mean? Like I- mmediately, it's like a chill in the air. She has a line later in their second scene of the episode when she is going to, to look at real estate, and she's at the same real estate agency that Madeleine works at, and she kind of apologizes like it's a very old. Apology, non apology for the way that she treated her earlier in the episode and talks about how Madeline reminds her of an old friend from boarding school who was trustworthy, and had like this, like, false pretense about her, and she said, and you've just remind me of her so much. Yes. Brutal. Well, I have to sell you the dinner seeing with Celestin the boys where she feels like screaming. Yes. That's what locked me an where I was like, okay, this is going to be great. Yes. And I almost feel as though the director, new to where she was like, no. This is how we're gonna really usher everybody. I think everybody knew it was going to be great when they walked in Meryl Streep. Well, yeah, but, like, that's what really got me. I just I lose my mind over this quote, when she's talking about how little boys miss their fathers and all these other little boys, like have their fathers, but nobody ever sort of measures up to what Perry was, and then she talks about being among her peers and how all of them have sons, she goes, I felt so angry angry that they're mediocre. Second rate pudgy balding middle management sons are still Perry. I wanted to scream, so you know what I did. I did scree on here. Oh, god. Don't do it. No. Okay. I already got it out last night at the center like seriously. How chilling is that? Very so good. I don't know. I don't I don't know where it's going to go. 'cause like I, I can't like I don't think that they can. I don't know what the what the violent future of big little lies, is, you know, this isn't a violent show. It's, it's a secretive, like violent sort of undertone. You know what I mean? There's a lot of violence in the relationship between parents, less than that was always really, really harrowing, because it was so like it felt like so far away from the facade, that's put on by so many of these other characters to imagine that, that's probably something very Louise taken on or had you do. I mean listen. You can't just say automatically Perry was abusive. So he comes from abusive parents, we don't know that you can't make a blanket statement like that. But it makes you wonder where did he come from? Right. And so we're seeing that at the very least like she is, she's very emotionally intense to the point. Of being emotionally in verbally abusive in this very sharp snide way towards Madeline. And you wonder what she is grooming Celeste towards because is having murdering someone having these nightmares and Celeste, the final scene of the episode is went Celeste has that has that nightmare. And she, you know, she lurches. I'll kill you kill you. And Mary Louise comes into reassure her in the final line, so great. So who we planning to kill, you know, and I don't think means that is all right? Let's go kill someone. But I think she's, she's trying to dig into this sleep. Talk that Celestis having. Yeah. Which is makes sense. Yeah. All right. So let's talk about Celeste Nicole Kidman back for season two. Of course, she is, she's sands Perry, but not quite I mean, Perry is dead. Alexander Skarsgard, obviously still a part of the cast, obviously still filming new material for the show and Celeste is, is not far away at all from, at the very least the ghost of this, man. First of all, did you have any thoughts on how this Celeste story is playing on anything about that, that really struck? You think it's probably pretty true to life for anybody who has gone through something, this traumatic and lost somebody that they really loved. And we're very very conflicted over, even when he was alive. You know, I think. She had a really complicated relationship, which she even says to Jane later on. It's complicated. Right. And I feel for her in that way, she sees therapist therapist is like listen. You're, you're still acting as though you're married, but your husband's dead like you need to be able to move on. And like you're still blaming yourself for all of this. When in reality, he was the one, you know, that was the abusive triggering partner in the relationship. So for her to sort of be mom in certain spots were, Mary Louise is like, aren't you angry? Why aren't you upset and she's like, oh like she, she has a lot of different emotions going through? And I think that that's perfectly normal specially given what's happened? I think it's again another smart creative choice that we're were reliving this horrific incident through her nightmares. Yeah. And through her memories to there, you're seeing you're seeing like these flashbacks between her and Perry, which I love or like slow dancing. They were kissing gently tenderly, like she's watching Perry be like a really good, dad, humans are complicated. Jane says something like that to Madel in, in the finale of season. One where Madeleine is confessing to Jane, that she's had an affair with, with Isaac Mendez the great comic book artist you could see the future. And she, she's like, you know, she says, like I'm a horrible person engines that you're not a horrible person. Welcome to the human race. Yeah. And I think that they're like degrees of, of horror. Terry was was a nightmare creature. But there are, there are associated, you can have with something very bad that are still happy, like, you know, like your relationship loved him, your relationship to something awful can be really layered and can be like, like, like, obviously, objectively, not a good thing, but can still have like bullet points of goodness. And I think that we're seeing that through the Celeste story. And I think that that's, that's fascinating. Because I'm sure that we're going to continue to see like the nightmarish holidays in him as well even within Celeste nightmares. Like we see her like at the. Like in vitro is something she. Yeah. That's just a dream. She has. She's having some dream. And I looked at you like, oh my God is possible that hit gotten her pregnant 'cause they were trying for another kid season. One wanted wanted wanted. He wanted one way he put that out there. I was wondering if that had happened. And I don't know how much time has actually passed since season. Well she she would know by now. Well, I mean, obviously, but I think what we could have been excluded from is, is there is there a baby in the family that we just haven't seen yet. I feel like that would be a big elephant the room to showing us. But in the day like day of TV, like some sort of, like big eleventh hour reveal like that feels kind of possible would feel a little cheap to me. I was wondering in the book, she apparently had for Tillis issues and they exhausted in vitro and a whole bunch of other procedures. But then she ended up getting pregnant with the twins naturally. And that was sort of a fluke thing that they neither expected. So I think maybe that's a flashback, especially since leeann moriarty's, like partially responsible for the script in this this season as well. Well, she she asked, she David Kohler credited with laboratory all of this. So maybe she's just touching back on something that was sort of negative information in the reading, but didn't necessarily translate on screen from season. One. We see, like one of the aspects of the nightmares the police lineup of the Monterey five and there are still in their, their Audrey Hepburn gear and the person who's like picking them out of the lineup is Perry. Yeah. And Celeste lashes out. That's what leads us into the final scene of the season. I'm just I'm really fascinated. See where that goes. Totally obviously, they're gonna be playing with I think, as the as the show is getting more internal into these characters. I think like expressing that outwardly. Visually is a really compelling choice. I s I think it's interesting that we're noticing, how the boys interact with one another and Celestis sort of keeping an eye on them and violent towards one another. And that's something that, you know, is just sort of like a little Easter egg of information that sort of sprinkled throughout where you see one of them stabbed the other with a fork like rats not great, no, or they're fighting in the backseat, which I think normal, kids stuff, but, like could be worse. So, you know, it's interesting to see how this might shake out Celeste. Becoming more heightened in a wear of her kids behavior because of this, how much of it is, is grief related versus like their nature and their nurture. We don't know, we don't know from Celeste, I think we could we could go on and talk about Jane who Jane like obviously newcomer to, to Monterey last season had so much baggage that she was dealing with not knowing whose father was the just the trim. The traumatic events surrounding ziggys birth, and the rape and everything like that, and the severe trust issues. And in the finale, she simultaneously puts together that her rapist, ziggys father was Celeste, husband, and then this man is killed in gently dies right away, basically, and. You wonder I wondered at the very least, like how was she going to live with that in the second season seems to be doing okay? She's in a new apartment. She's got a new job. She's working at the Monterey aquarium. Which you and I have been in that part of the country to the aquarium, we have not been to the aquarium and sea turtles second, huge missed opportunity shut up him. Let me know what we're missing should we on our next trip to, to, to the Pacific coast. We should we put the Monterey aquarium on the I hear parking is a is a challenge, really. We're going to talk about it this much. I just feel like parking's a challenge, and it should be if that's true or not at like the no, I would like to have that validated. I would like to have my car valet or me, his, John, Mark valeted for me. We have gene's working there. She's got like this new co worker that she seems to be hitting off with his Corey, he's played by an actor Dame Douglas Smith. Yes. Who is he was in big love big little love? That's what I know him. Another age HBO show. The Bill Paxton rest in peace. The Bill packs areas or been Henriksen whose eldest, son. Family. Okay. Who's also in the Bye-bye man, which was directed by the great Stacy title, and her husband, written by her husband Jonathan Penner of survivor fame. They are going through a lot and our hearts, go out to them. So he's a new character here. Douglas Smith playing Corey and seems like maybe being built up to be some kind of romantic interest for Jane possibly, which makes me feel sad for Tom. What happened to Tom there? They even go to the same coffee. Shop this time. I don't think so. I think it was a different shops, and maybe didn't Gordon, Gordon Rinat has been didn't he threatened to like poll his friends from going to the coffee shop? Have any friends to train set to the whole episode drive him out of business. You knows what Tom seems to be Noar insight, Tom. Yeah. Fell down the stairs metaphorically for. You're not a lot of Zeki in this episode in Armitage very busy being a young Sheldon. He has more hair, though. He's got more hair. He's looking a little bit older. I wonder how much of Ziggy story we will get this season because of the actors other commitments. He's got a fairy prominent job that I meant imagine is also a very demand threat to any other children, eminently, so sweet. I think that there is a story to be told and hinted at the scene between gene and Celeste where they're talking about Harry's estate. Yep. As a state, and how Celeste is trying to give Jane money from it because his biological son, and she doesn't seem to be cashing, the checks, she's not accepting the money. Yeah. She calls at rape money because it right money. So she's not, she's not feeling great about located. It's complicated for her to and other ways, obviously. So, you know, I think she still has that to kind of reckon with how that shakes out. We'll obviously see. But she does seem to be on the up and up. I, I wonder if it was a relief for her to know that he's no longer alive, feel like probably, I think I would expect that we are going to see scenes of her with Perry. Like I bet be invited in yet night. Now that we know who that character was now that we know that, that connection is very scared to see some of that stuff. I'm not excited for what that could look like. Yeah, I know I'm not either, but I think it draws moron on understanding her character that much more will you Cohen a moron? We have seen with gene in Celeste, and Jane is turn book. How are you? Not mad at me. You know, I slept with your husband. Right. I knew he was married. He was married at didn't know his married to you. But I knew he was married and I wasn't fine, obviously with the way that the night ended but I was fine with things getting to that point. I wonder where that's gonna go. I wonder what, what will the dynamic between Jane and Celeste be by season and was being very, very, very, very good to Jamie like marriages complicated. I don't hate you at all. I wonder wonder I wonder if there's going to be a breaking point for Celeste in general because she seems to be, you know, sort of gliding through all of this. Yeah. I mean obviously, she's very upset, but she hasn't like had her like freakout moment. Right. And will that happen? Jane will it happen at Mary Louise, we'll go to the therapist, more and really let it out. Will it happened to all of these people? We don't really know. I don't know. Bonnie, what's talk, Bonnie. What's. Zoe Kravitz and Bonnie is the one who is most obviously struggling with what happened. Yes. She's the one who literally killed Perry. And it would appear as though she doesn't feel like she can talk to anyone, including the women should feel very alone. Yeah. And I sympathize you know, I empathize ever kill anybody as far as. Certainly no centipedes. No god. You kill that. Thank you. I apologize feed into out there, I had to do. It was really. There was no other I tried to do it non lethally, like the size of my Pinkett ended up being killing and I'm sorry. Okay well struggling, and she doesn't feel like there's anything she can talk to based on the fresh death of last night for yourself. How do you feel about Bonnie, you agree with her? You would feel that way too. I mean we're letting everyone know about the centipede but well, I think oh, how would I felt if Bonnie centipede? Yeah. That's fine. Do that. No, I assume it, I think, with, with Bonnie, she, she's the one who kind of articulates like we could have just told the truth I'd be out of this. We just told the truth like it was self defense. Maybe I'd be doing community service or whatever, I think, detective Quinlan is talking earlier in the episode separate from the women and his talking about how she has. She's talking to like one of the partners in departments like it would be like twelve months community service like it wouldn't be that big of a, why would they why why would they lie. So that is the question. Why would they lie? And that hasn't really been outwardly asked, you know. Yeah. Turnley within the women within the Monterey five but I'm sure it will be. And I'm sure it will be addressed. I think Bonnie is the closest to asking that question because there's the scene remodel incomes over to both check in on bond, but also to check in on goal. Right. Because gale doesn't want to go to school. Sterry off that and Bonnie's the one who's like we should like why did we have a high? I now I can't even talk to Nathan can't even talk to my husband like they, they spent the summer at Lake Tahoe. Apparently she had an awful time. She was like very closed up and everyone else's sensing it. Nathan is trying to like be not even just like be intimate with binding. But just trying to connect with her at all. And sounds like we see we don't even just hear it. We see Bonnie and him have an interaction where she I told you just give me space just give me space. She doesn't say any kind of way that's like to hardcore or anything like that. But certainly we can empathize with, like why she feels that way? But I can imagine what it would be like from his perspective, if he's already spent a summer with her away in Lake Tahoe. And that was how she was feeling that whole summer. And now here, she is the start of the new school year, she still needs that space and she's still saying, like I need that space. I'm not ready to talk about it. You can imagine that being agonizing for a partner. Like I was like sitting on this thing that was like clearly rotting me from the inside out, and I wouldn't talk to you about it for, like, four months straight, and my interactions with you would be along the lines of, like I just need some space. Just give me just a minute. Like that would be catastrophic for the relationship, I'd have my own podcast about it. Let's with them everyone hell. So but I think, but I do think it's also very human. Like I think you can imagine like doing something so bad or at least you feel like it's something I'm sure bad guilt, and the shame, that's eating alive. And, and, you know, I think she always presented herself as someone with a strong moral compass wanting to do the right thing even if we didn't really see a multidimensional character from her from the first season. That's gonna eat away. Yeah. It's very caustic for her, obviously is very corrosive. And, and her husband's also kind of an idiot, he's a little bit of a tool, but, you know, do what are you gonna do really show it all Mr. sensitive, that would be add. But with, with Bonnie something that I want, I want to, you know, something that we absolutely have to track because Bonnie is the closest to the cops it seems like right. He'll she's like Carmel by the sea down on the bottom steps ready to walk in those closest to hollering at the police in being, like, hey, so total unfaithful move. Oh, yeah. What wondering just wanted to talk about unfavourably. There will be a more natural segue unfaithful. Maybe someday with enough support. I'm sure we could do anything, but Bonnie is, is like you say, like she, like, she's kind of, like, fording with the idea of going to the police like we see her, like near the station. We don't know if she's talked to the cops or if she chooses to talk to the cops, I wonder and it's something to track has, she already talked to the cops is that possible possible that she has already spoken with the police, and we just don't know that yet we, you know, the final, the very final image of season one, big little lies all the women on the beach, and they're together and their children are dancing in the in the water and everything and everybody's together. And we're seeing the flashes of we were watching this together last night, and you were so taken by it. The, the sequence of the ocean, just like pounding the rocks and then Perry powder. Perry County, the women, the women fighting back. It is. So Ella mental in this show's awesome. And the final thing that you see, like the ocean calms because Perry is dead. You see from the perspective. Somebody far away has is taking a picture of the women. No, it's not that it's just the, the cop has been investigating the female cop. And she's got the lighter that she flips. That's the noise that you hear it's not like someone taking a picture of final image of the first season of big little lies. There's like a blink. There's like a blink of a somebody taking a photo from a distance really. I mean well anyway listeners correcting clink of the lighter. Yeah. So it's clearly her, but we in this episode to that we get front we go. Back to that moment, we'd go back to the and we see from her perspective. We see perspective. See the detective is further away, and whether that's like something that's like playing into because this is a show that plays visions and not quite hallucinations, but plays of that sort of stuff, we're, we're kind of left to wonder, I think if you know has did that inspire her to already like talk to the cop? Is it something that she is? Remembering and thinking about, and like, yeah. Knowing that she's been been wonder watched all along basically, I wonder she's, you know, the show is at least setting up our expectations that she's the one who will crack. Yeah. Yeah. Fastens like the one who has the most obviously to lose. Because she was the person killed Perry. Right. So, and then we I mean, I think it's a natural progression. Go-to Renato, right. Yeah. And what's up with we're not? I mean tone in this episode, but I think it's interesting, the meeting, they'll have in the parking lot about being called the Monterey five von is noticeably. Absent from this. Yes. And run out as listen. Listen, I'm friends with one of the women who talks to like the, the lead detective. And like they're the cases open, but it's not really being advocates like we have nothing to worry about. I don't know. We're not as kind of all over the place for not like went up to her second grade teacher funny. Yeah. Like my daughter was bullied, Laura Dern, so great like in a power like or one hundred photos. Yeah. Just like singing at the cameras, Diana Ross song. So, you know, I think she's definitely more in sync with a lot of the moms in the school, obviously from all the events that transpired. But she's still sort of power hungry and kind of nuts younger. Yeah. So I don't know. I I'm very excited though at the prospect of her being more included internally with group and getting to see her interact with these people on like a more level playing field. But I think that one of the one of the clear themes at the season premiere is establishing about the future of the show is of like the first season is about how a big lie is formed, and how that can become like a bonding agent. I think that this is about, like how a big lie, dissolves in phrase, and in that same way in that same way. Like I feel like found way of looking at it. I like it. Well in the same way, I feel like Renova is like the first friend of this group, too. Favor with the rest of the group that are really like her that much until the moment. So I wonder how that wall that wall play out. There's not a ton to talk about with or not just other than like, it's great to see her with group, a little bit more drinking and playing with train set. Yeah. So let's say the husbands a little bit. Gordon played by Geoffrey. Nord Ling aka, Larry moss of twenty four season seven fame. Forget the name of his character in Mighty Ducks three. But he is like the new Gordon Bombay in my that's right. I've been sitting here this whole time trying to figure it out. And you couldn't tell behind all the copious amounts of whiskey. He's drinking in the trains, that he's playing with the guy ducks fly together. Yeah. All right. So Gordon's playing with trains. That's it. It was great. It was a great moment. A little troubling. I think that he he's been an expression as a character of like, kind of, like he probably like a self model manly man, like he should be more successful than he is in his life. And he's less successful than his wife feels, it feels like that does not play elegantly with this man feels like he's got a little maybe won't outright say, I've got a problem with that. But it seems like he's got a little bit of a problem with that. And that's probably part of like what fueled his confrontation in season, one with Jean Madel in adult comes to them, at the at the cafe and really throws down. It's like like he needs he needs something to do. Yeah. So it's something to do right now is my trains, a little kept a regular Bobby Bokola, right? They're looking for the blue rocket the comment or the blue racket. I don't remember any either way, I will say, nothing further about that Gordon's doing that. Nathan is worried about Bonnie. He's still like. I thought that it's, it's somewhere between. I don't I don't know how I felt about the scene alternately overall scene between him. And. Yeah. Felt that you know what it felt like big little lies fan. Thick. Yeah. Like fan fiction, husbands. And it's just like another like stereotypical Nathan Ed have like this like weird tension. Seen that probably didn't really need to happen a little unnecessary. Yeah. Yeah. It's not book. Yeah. Keep saying that these valuable seeing definitely I think weakest of the episode for sure for me and his laptop ING away while he's doing that. Maybe the weirdest seen the actually is. Yeah. This where we're Tori. Who is the great comic book artist Isaac Mendez wife played by Sarah Sokolovic, which I cannot pronounce correctly. They interact the look of it just a look, which is probably how you say where. Editori. They meet in the grocery store, and she is like, hey, all I'm treating recognize me got got breast enhancement surgery. And he's like, oh, I forget exactly what he says she was like I was feeling really self conscious and he's like, oh, 'cause out your breath. No, my nose such, she got implants, to distract from her nose, which was funny. I thought it was just a funny moment, but are we are we building gearing up for like a reveal infidelity side of things between Madeline or they or is she gonna try and sleep with it, or is that going to try and sleep with her going to be successful or is it necessary to do any or is it just going to catalyze us towards like the confrontation between Ed and Madel in which felt like it was happening in the first season finale, but clearly did not like it seems pretty clear that the traumatic event of the of the killing of Perry blocked that converse. From happening, and there may be one thing that I'm thinking about is like, we'll be something that's like made explicit later on in the season that part of the motivation like the subconscious, I would say the subconscious motivation for Madeline to put such a lid on killing Perry was like, now, this is a new project. I can I could focus on this rather than having to confront blowing up my marriage, which was like going to be like the next thing that she had to do like that. Little y pales in comparison to the big little lie happened with with period. I don't mean that like any kind of militias way necessarily. I mean like is that, like, you know, sort of, like internally kinda just snap into that mode. I mean, I think she'd been operating like that beforehand. Yeah. Like it didn't really come to a surface until avenue, Q challenged and then all sort of unveiled itself, so I dunno. We'll see. So those are the husbands as scars is still around in flashback form looking terrifying, but looking tear. Thing as usual. There's the kids. I don't feel there's much more. We need to add about the children Chloe looks older. Khloe looks a little older still DJ. What did you think about the music in this episode? Yeah. Did you have a favorite is there something that we're going to be listening to all summer long? I mean, it reminded me of how much I love like old Motown hits your, your big Emily FOX loves the Motown. I do she comes by. Honestly, your father loves the Motown the Motown. Yeah. I mean, Motown. I'm just taking a speech mannerism from rob sister. He likes to put in front of a lot of things. God, it all right. Well, all around by the spinners great excellent sort of song to usher in everybody's? I sure have you ever seen them do the donkey role? Impressive. Let me see that dunk. Another time, okay? Another time one interesting parallel. What is it? Neil Young's harvest moon. Right. Which was in the first season one as well. It was at least in season one season, the finale on the ground lying on the ground. It's Neil young playing. I feel like we're like berries. Like get up. Come on. Get your stuff together like figured out like she's sort of, like like Celeste has been beaten up, and she's in the bathroom, and Perry decides to take the kids to school. I felt like it was it was playing in a more in a happier moment in the marriage, but maybe not whatever either way, it was in season one, and it was like the actual Neil young version. There was a bit of it in this one by Cassandra Wilson. Yeah. Which surprisingly enough, she has a deeper voice than Neil young does. But it's, it's sort of brings you back. It makes you cognizant of former soundtracks and what was going on before there's like a parallel there that I really love, then we had sue John Stevens pop up at one point. And then, of course I was saying the Diana Ross. Song as saying she's doing her photo shoot. Those are sort of, like the, the bigger songs that are noticeable. Let's get into some feedback. We gotta start wrapping this thing up. So let's make sure that we talk about some feedback that you guys sent in again best way to do that post show. Recaps dot com slash feedback. Feedback form Twitter also works complete at Emily, at Emmett, I am at round Howard, you can tweet at the post show. Recaps Twitter account at push recaps. This was from Leo rule. Forever seem psych somebody who agrees with you about Leonardo DiCaprio. Yeah. I don't know if that's actually the case, please. Correct. On the issue. Wrote in and said, so I know why Perry is the way that he is mother is a piece of work. Do you think that she's turning the twin boys against the with her subtle shade? And undermining her with her son can do. No wrong attitude. I mean it's funny because the, the scene that we get about Mary Louise talking to the boys with Celeste presence is like you have to obey your mother, do you feel like she's she's turning their heads at all? In other ways, I could see. That for sure. I mean, she's manipulative enough and how she's sort of walked through the first ups owed. So why wouldn't she try to make herself look great? And put others down, sorta seems to be her ammo so far Barbie, up wrote in and said there was a callback to season one episode one, which I think that this. Ties nicely to what we're talking about with that Neil young. Not necessarily the specific thing. But the fact that there were a lot of call backs. Yeah. I guess the point and this is one of them is Barbie uprights in when Madeleine meets Jane in the first episode of the series, she says, I like you already you're an intrinsically nice person. I have knows for these things. And in this episode Mary Louise burns Madeleine with I find little people to be untrustworthy. You seem nice person you're a wonder what does that mean you're a wonder she wants things. That's what I know. And I think that's what she mean wants and on staff, you want in on stuff, you, you want what you don't have, and those desires drive you to pave the way that you behave. Yeah. But it's just it's, it's very fun that you, do you have turned around on her in terms of a snap judgment. Well in the first season Madel in his such power player in her interpersonal dynamics, and here we now have this very powerful force who is. Who is entered Monterey and holds the mirror backup to Madeline. So I think that we could go over it with a really fine tooth comb, going back over the episode and looking at all the different ways that there are echoes from season, one through season two, I'm sure it's going to be all over the place. I really do think that there is this quality of, like we're on the other side of the mirror like those everything crumble? Now what we, we broke through it with Perry's death. And once we the audience, we're allowed to know what that was. Now. We're seeing everything like the kind of like the twisted funhouse mirror version of what's on the other side of that stuff the affirmation Michael j Clarke wrote in its. Hello. Please power rank the three remaining husbands as characters. So that would be Jeffrey Nord Ling as Gordon Adam Scott noted survivor fan, as Ed McKenzie and James Tupper as Nathan, the floor is yours. And we how would you rank the three of them? And why I think Ed gets number one pick. Yeah. He's been a source of strength calls. Madeleine on her shit, but also very kind Ed Madel in or kind of like the dark real world versions of Ben Wyatt. And Leslie, Nope. From parks and rec. A very dark version of them. Okay. All right, fair, still number one. Got to give it a Gordon number two Gordon's number to lift capacity for drinking. It's impressive deep deep deep deeply deeply deeply troubling. Great with trains. I actually think that he's probably not a bad guys, probably three really kind of crap. They're both terrible can tie for third. It wasn't even there for gale, he was like a deadbeat dad. He's a DVD. Yeah. And now he has a second shot at being a dad, and he seems to be like all better. No. He's just like walking around bullying people upon reflection of the season finale of season. One great voice, great voice. Excellent voice, really great voice. You were told me Adam Scott was overdubbed. Yeah. Gingrich. It doesn't sound like very nicely. It's like the voice just like it doesn't really match. What I what I hear from Adam Scott, when he's talking, and like people their singing, voices can be very different from how they talk conversationally. But that's true. Still, this very jarring. I mean, these are all set. Everybody knows that about me. Everybody knows all about the Wanda voice, Dave Baker writes in who's going off the deep end. I let's limit that to the Monterey five. Okay. So let's say Madeleine Celeste, Jane, Bonnie Renova, who is going to fall apart. I mean, we kind of just said that Bonnie seems like she's dissolving f- Esther too obvious, and might be too. And in a way, like is that falling apart if she goes the police, or is that, like reclaiming some sandy? Yeah, I don't know. What's your definition addle in? I'm gonna go with Madeline. We're also being set up to think that everything's crumble, maybe burst. But I think that she's going to she's going to go the deepest really. I think I think that she is going to be revealed that she was the one that created the lying would already has been, I know. But like for everybody to know there's the potential for that. But there's also the thing with eggs, that she has run away from the affair is behind her. I think that there's a lot there. And I think. I think that Mary Louise for better in likely for worse, as forcing her to confront some of her some of our own last one from our great friend Brendan Fitzpatrick, who binged the entirety of big little lies on Sunday. Brennan. Season. Brennan. Seem seems like a fun way to do it. He wrote in and said, who is your favorite of the five and why? And why is it Laura Dern Renova after this episode because she's insane? The way she just casually. Throws out the bullying of last year to the new teacher was so awkwardly funny. Do you have a favorite of the five of the Monterey five? I mean, I think madeleine's my favorite because she's just so boisterous and crazy. Love Reese, Witherspoon. Yeah. I think she's I think it's like a wonderful role. I. Yeah. I think she's great. Yeah. Scrape. Yeah. Cosign? I mean, all of them all, but weekly weekly Reese, Witherspoon is tremendous and I'm very happy about it. Correct. All right. So feedback we'd love to get that from you guys moving forward again push recaps com slash feedback. And all the ways to tweet our way. Any predictions for the future for the next week's episode episode to it's called the telltale hearts, very Edgar Allan Poe, the heart. That's beating beneath the floorboards. I don't know. Right. Do you feel like Mary Louise has the ability to get physically violent? I don't know kind of wondering if that's I don't like her shot against Bonnie. I gotta be honest. No. But I, I can see her like slapping, last Celeste being stuck in like this same group of being like it's my fault. I did this. She's already a battered woman. I could see something like that. Yeah. Hope not. I hope not too. Yeah, I could see it. Emily before we close out because we are about to close out here. I wanted to know if you would like to join me in taking one last moment to thank our sponsors for this episode, and those are friends over at truecar I would love to now every car comes with its share of stories that ding in your bumper when you nervously picked up a first date, remember, when you pick me up for our first date, I didn't hit anything, you didn't hit anything might car got totalled on a different incident. The luxury pack that you've got after a big promotion or the mileage you saved by writing your bike all summer, and we've FOX prolific biker, we were just talking to my neighbor about how he loves summer biking while you can't put a price tag on your stories now with truecar you can at least find out what your car is worth when it's time to sell or trade it in just go to truecar simply enter your license plate number, and watch your car's details pop up then answer if you questions, navigation and moon roof watches, they bump up your value, high mileage. You already knew it was going to cost you. But now, you know how much things you're well it so you can plan ahead. Once you're finished you'll get a true cash offer sent in minutes, which you can take to a local certified dealer to cash out or trade in. So when you're ready to experience a better way to sell or trade in your car, check out truecar today drew cash offer not available in all areas. Emily FOX, what else we gotta start wrapping up, you know, wrap it up wrap it up. All right. We got this. I think we covered some good bases today. I'm excited to see what happens. Next week you made a pork chop last night, you wanted to keep people prized of at least. Cooking chops who the job we got a brand new suit with a stone fruit relish. Yeah. Like a peach slob. I was hoping for red velvet cupcakes gluten free or otherwise would reach on one for each would have been great. I would say that as a good note to end this on our first of many big little lies podcasts for you here talking about season, two episode one wig little on post show, recaps, we will be back, very soon with our episode to recap. And by various a week from now, we have that Lee see episode two first. So it's going to be about a week, the telltale hearts that's going to be really, really fun. Subscribe to post show, recaps please post show recaps com slash tunes to do that on itunes your ratings reviews. Those are very, very appreciated as we are always hoping to rise in the charts. If you've got honest feedback, we love that positive is great. But only if you mean it, we have a lot of fun stuff plan here on Poche. Recaps. In the weeks and months ahead. I'm very excited about the future of Poche recaps as we are looking to close out the game of thrones era and launch into some new stuff that's going to do for us. Thank you for listening guys are I by June.

Celeste Nicole Kidman Meryl Streep Perry Mary Louise Monterey Jane Bonnie centipede Madeline director HBO Emily Madeleine Josh Wigger Reese Witherspoon Alexander Skarsgard New York City Emily FOX partner Dame Douglas Smith Brendan Fitzpatrick
RHOA: A Very CHILL Engagement

Watch What Crappens

1:18:12 hr | 1 year ago

RHOA: A Very CHILL Engagement

"Watch what happens would like to think. It's premium sponsors. Just saying okay Christy. Wow where D dougherty Jamie. She has no last name he lets go. I WANNA better with Lords Funder Gypsum Scott With Jessica Trot Savona Noble Nonni. You don't touch the nicky. Morgan ladder are in McNicoll is she. Don't Miss Nutricula Meghan the slayer Taylor Kelly Barlow. When she goes barlow we go? Hi Lo Mecklenburg. You can't have a burger without the Bernie no thing like Alison King. Thank it's Jessica. Dang he makes US Queen Ritchie Dis. Eric Greenwood she only uses her power. For Good God I love that Banana Anderson Higher Than Hi Rez. It's Lauren Peres of Nikila Weber Lisa Wallet. Now that's what I call containment. The Bay Area BETCHA has ads and are super premium Patriot subscribers. Let's take off with Chamula plane. Miss Noel always ready for Nicole. Passer Ready Day Rachel's in the next day you're out mortis. The Lord of the rings were taken the gold with Brenda Silva. She ain't no shrinking violet. Kuchar let's go on a bender there with Lauren. Funder yes we can with Howley Carolinian. And yes we should. With Kerry Bridge would your the Wyndham beneath our wings. Joe Window Samantha. Season Desisto grant the grandmaster. Somebody Tennessee sees of Betsy. MD Let's get racy with Miss Stacy Sheridan out of a can in Anthony Incredible Edible Matthew Sisters and Meena Coochie Coochie. Coo Craft often have been so much sir. Let Your Babich. I been kicked. Hello and welcome to watch a crap in the podcast all that crap on Bravo that we'd just love to watch. I'm Ben Mandelson for the real housewives of kitchen island joining me. He is a hilarious man. It's run carom because of the rose bricks badge rose podcast. What's up Ronnie Binge Mooney? Well how are you doing. And this The countdown to Christmas Slash Hannukah already started. Oh my gosh went doing so great. I love Christmas Hannukah but just Santa Closet Lip elves just very excited for the whole thing I am too. I am making some applesauce ahead of a lot better situation. That's GonNa be happening tomorrow and I went to sprouts and I have never seen so many different types of apples. I mean the Apple Apple world has blown up there. I mean you have the standard Dander like Fujian gala and then get some of the things that are like a little fancier jazz is a jazz apple and then there's like snapdragon apples ause and sugar bees and there was one that was called Lady Alice Apple an there was juicy apple and all these crazy apples had never and I was like that was just the beginning. I'd never seen so many different types of apples and then it's annoying cause it's like well. which do you choose their different shapes and sizes? And I'm like I I WANNA try them all. I wanted to make all all sorts of apples altogether but you can only do so many so holidays. Am I right that that truth. Ain't that just live just so many apples. Apple's you just can't do it all you know what the for as many apples as there are in the world or at sprouts. They're even more watcher. Crap live shows start star Jesse APP alive. Yeah we are the Granny Smith or at least Liz Smith of live shows so we start up again on the seventeenth for the golden crappies which is sold out. So we're really excited. Everyone who is going to be coming to that. If you're looking for a ticket for that if you didn't get a ticket ticket definitely go onto our facebook watch crap ins live and loving it Because a lot of times people have last minute cancellations and stuff like that so go on. They're joined that group and then here are the other shows we have Detroit. We Got Columbus. We got We got one show left in Austin. That's not sold out. We got Houston. We Got Hoover Alabama which is the Birmingham area and Nola and Kansas City Aka Lawrence fucking Kansas. which is really not in Kansas City about You know the region Omaha Salt Lake City home of new housewives. Okay Vancouver British Columbia Orlando Florida Charleston South Carolina Oklahoma City Asbury Park and then three giant shows to end our first six months year de uc San Francisco and Boston. Well huge huge shows there so definitely get your tickets at watch or CRAP INS DOT COM beautiful job ban. Did you like that. The spirit of Lou. Ann took over as as reading the and I was like. I'm going to go with it. I think maybe I'll just always read them as Luan because the fun for me. Yes I loved it. I love doing those live shows. It's crazy having a little time off being just at home of been going to movies just I. I don't know lots of things I can't wait to catch up on movies I My number one movie to see as parasite I cannot wait to see it. So that's that's Oh yeah I I cannot wait until that comes out on. Video could be watching Harris site. I didn't know that somebody made a bio-pic about stop so I'm just like very excited to see it. The parasite is about an old worm. That won't leave the house gang like getting some older worm to pay for the house. You must live in Mutley. This whole I mean really like so. Many of the Oscar contenders could be about Bravo stars knives out. I mean speaks for itself. Alf Star Wars nineteen seventeen nineteen so little women per day so many of our stars nineteen seventy it you know I have to say I hate that preview for nineteen seventeen. Hate it outside of it. I don't even want to go to the movies because I know that they're going to make me watch goddamn preview again. What is it like World War One? Oh It's like Oh we have to save it. Only this troop can save the country and by the way your brothers over that to save two because God forbid you're GonNa Save the country has to be some is brother is over there and then it's a really long previous and then they just so this guy running but he looks like it's like if you asked me to start running and it's just awkward and fumbling and I'm like this poor guy and they made him suit at thirty times and he just has to run for twenty minutes and I just feel bad for the guy you know. I know he's probably at your body. Yeah just looks really. Yeah like talkie and I- i- mallards super allocate I on the flight back from From Seattle I started to I. I watched I started to watch this movie documentary by Peter Jackson of all people that came out last year called some like and they will not be forgotten or their stories will. It's something like that as basically the whole gist of it is that Peter Jackson found all this world war one footage and he used his magic to polarize it and like change the speed of it. So it didn't look like old herky-jerky newsreels looked more realistic. So people have said Oh. It's so amazing. So I turned it on and I'm watching for like fifteen minutes at. It's still like black and white newsreel stuff and all you hear are like they've found like archived voices so this is all like amazing in gray right like we're learning running back like these voices of the soldiers but this is what the entire thing was. It was like some days. We'll have beat jam all beat jam every day if you apple jam. Those your Dad's but other days you had the job. We didn't know adore. We were young young boys. I was fifteen and I said I was eighteen and they had me now so I was there I was in. I was in the war someday. Israel be raining out in the rain all days. It was not so really what it would rain on. Say That's Queen Mum Wrong over us. It was like that like nonstop and I was like I'm sorry fast-forwarded had fast forwarded to the colorized par I watched some of it was cool. I just like I switched over to the ARETHA. Franklin documentary which was much better. Oh my yeah better choice for sure. Are you sure that Peter Jackson direct this episode of Real Housewives of Atlanta. Because that's exactly how this episode headstarts like this is a great old newsreel footage. It's like bump on breach Jam Cynthia is jam her kitchen. My boss you're GONNA be there was shot on a good day. I imagine island but some days. I got to go over to the family room for a belly Q.. MINUTE BUSINESS SIP. Each hams sank. I think it was. Maybe it was obvious alley got sick of it was has checked Hashtag tag bb jam. We're going to revise history of the World War. One soldiers have jam. BJ This this episode was as an extra fifteen minutes longer for no good reason. I guess maybe they fit in some silly newsreel stuff like you said maybe even a an errant French bench narration. This little so crate this episode. Some of the last episode fucking Hilarious and I was cracking up at this beginning. Far this whole time he newsreel footage and well before that even starts. You just hear the French the French thing. It's like yes. Six High Housing House just off the shelf off of. I'll vouch for Madonna's croissants wrong on it's about up on Olson's Liza but I'm but I'm all shows and cards come up to tell us what's going on like an old time movie. There was once a couple in love. And then you see this old time movie. All the women wanted to get married without being called thirsty. Make us to Cynthia working on the ground orally and then and then and a man was okay with a show. There's all this time footage and then it's like Mike. Woodson deals his family asking for the blessing. He's like I just want to. I want to someday. I'M GONNA ask for hand marriage and I just WanNa make sure that that I want WanNa get everyone's blessing and the mom. Just go. Kay who does that. I would like your blessing right in front of her. She's asking he's asking right in for the Cynthia and then of course mouse like you have my blessing. You're up with the wind solar. It's really cool to their. Please help me please. In malls going to open up a mouse cellar where she just keeps versions of herself in a cellar smell multiplicity Mao while I'm out I'm even more lifeless than the first now I multiplied myself by accident saipem seven seller lots of people to Polish glasses. This is now. Money shrunk the male. Oh whoops themselves aims is oh well well. That's a big bowl of cereal. I mean it's irregular-sized but it's still too big bowl. I like to think that Mala believes that she was shrunken but those malfunction shrunken nurse and so she just the same size but she still says that she should. I've been shot him so they just didn't work whereas everyone so pig don't wear the same size male. Oh well look the aunt is normal sized Rick Moranis quits acting forever. He's like that was the most boring movie I've ever been the worst reboot advocates on the male. So then we go. We've got a lot of awkward time cuts to they're telling they're labeling every seen at this time it's like Wednesday now it's it's old timey music still your Yasha Tim. Tim Shut Down two days as before proposal. Yeah so Mike Brings Noel and his two daughters to Salomon brothers. Because I guess maybe Kay jewelers was closed. I personally would recommend jared but you know so he goes to Solomon Brothers to get a ring and so he just there with the girls. It's actually she kinda sweet. He actually like Mike I think he seems like a pretty good guy and his daughter seem sweet and everyone seems to like Mike. I mean I just I feel like when you start with Peter and then you get will. I think I'm just happy knowing can ever be Leon. Leon is obviously the gold standard. But I think Mike is a pretty strong contender. Yeah Mike's Pretty Hot. Not really sure about the whole marrying things you don't live in the same town to marrying. PM You don't live in the same town. But I think I like him okay. I don't know I don't trust eighty man on housewives swabs. I don't trust any new husband. That's fair that's fair and so The girls are like happy for my and Noel Goes. You guys have such a spark mark. That love just radiates off you. There's something about this show. Where like all the kids are barely able to have? You noticed that yes. They put every single child three shock therapy before they put them on Michelle. Did we discuss this or is this something I talked about with Tom. We've talked about it. A million times like how Riley it's Riley There's a scene with Kayla and Riley in the same thing to work for my money. I don't know what an ice two you don't even know where the tree is. I have a job. I don't want a job like Oh Jeez. Yeah like this show. I mean these kids they they are just bored. They're bored they allow thing they ever WanNa do is be on camera. Yeah So this pretty interesting. You seem so Caitlyn's like okay caitlyn is the Ring Lady. She's like okay. Let's get this wrapped up the ring. I mean the scene is totally great but rapid. So let's go over to baby. Talk my favorite. So maybe August polling get Porsche strapped and forces both sessions sufficiently out of control. This baby is going to be bald. Okay let's talk about edges on this show. Can we leave the baby Sam because poor baby. Nineteen Bose I didn't even know it best. But that's what she did say. She loved Bose last week. He's obsessed. This baby has so many bose well as much as porsche loves bows. It doesn't compare to how much dennis loves the tracks it because he has pulled up in his most apologetic tracts. You here's come over and like it. It's like it's more I think because there's more of a purple purple black this this week maybe purple and white. I don't know but he was in. He was in yet another tracksuit but he's not an attractive. I I know and it's it's weird because I thought porsches rings different on her ring machine thing. It's like the Buddhism Buddha assist just the music that follows the sky around wherever he is so. He's over a bunk AF hotdogs to apologize and it's like a personal chef talkable talkable arrangement edible hot dot edible by the way. I fully support the hotdog herbal arrangement. And if someone ever wants to send one I will send you up. Okay if I expand thank you thank you. Your birthday is now covered for next December fourth. Well it it is Hanukkah right now Romney. So you're not off the hook harling you've got eight days of Rondo days of hot dogs national with the matter. But I'm only going to send you seven buns because that's how hot dogs work gaining everybody so so so Dennis comes over and the thing is this. Is that last we all season. Long portions been angry at Dennis Mad and she's been working through it understandably and and she had therapy Dennis last week and you know Porsche has been like okay. I'M GONNA fight for my marriage which is fine but I kind of thought she she would go through a phase of like like reluctant acceptance or you know struggling to to let this man back into her life even though she said yes no. She's like back to normal now. She's like made a mistake. She made him a cake. I don't even know why she just may take a year for the baby and got all dressed all hot and everything for him to come over. Yeah porsches I just you know voice is going to be like that. You know the one who calls you talk to your head off for two and a half hours about how she's sick. I bet she's not gonNA take this anymore. He cheated. That's a last step and then they get back together and you're the asshole forever saying leave him in the first place exactly and even although the producer does ask ask Porsche like have you given Dennis Cookies. And she goes no no no no right. Yeah I think there's been some cookie cookie cookie taking So Dennis is ready for you. True I just think you'd like the the Monday night football team song ready for some football so porsche basically physically. She's going out of town with the other girls with the other girls you know and the baby. The this is the first time we've ever seen the baby's face move when Dennis Holzer. Then she starts kind of like spitting being coming to life which is interesting but then the only holds her for like two minutes and then goes back to eating his lovely steak dinner which every man should get after fucking cheating on you while you're pregnant mant exactly like the thing that he's like feeding the baby and then the baby's like taking the bottle for like a little bit and then he just like basically pulls the bottle out and the baby starts crying and You only gave her like this like a teaspoon of of like formula. What the fuck? Yeah so he's like well we're going to have to upgrade this ring situation By upgrade he needs to give you one back because didn't he take the other one back Monta. He's a monster. Yeah you're right you're right. Yeah but he knows how to keep he knows how to keep Porsche interested. That's for sure because she's like yeah another way back together he wants to put the ring on my finger. That's a big deal. That means we're a family emily. It means that there's drew trusted needs to be rebuilt. It was like okay. Pleased you're depressing me. Poor show like I love you but this is depressing. And we've already got up-market deal within this episode. I know seriously porsche well. At least at least Dennis these tries to act like he is in love with Porsche. You know so so then we go over to Cynthia who is a day before. The proposal and Cynthia's getting a tuna melt with iced coffee like so this way. I'm glad they documented documented this that way she can always remember. Last Day of being single girl with Avocado and Avocado in this. She goes to eat at a place. It's very representative of her story. Line it's called the grind so she's eating Glenn waiting forever so you know. Whoever she's meeting is always late? Who's always say marlow? Marlow is always late. Gave we know personally from this. PODCAST MOLA's Liz. When late ASS? Yeah Yeah people. People don't realize this but was it probably at this point like four or five years ago right but was that it was. It's a long time ago. It was close to when we first started doing it and She was gonna come on the show. I mean it was like not even twenty it was like can our half or so it was crazy friendly. We are like no thanks. What the hell? Yeah I mean listen we love us a marlow but we also so love our time. Sorry Ari our craze always welcome to come back on the show like that's fine but like you know we're not GonNa wait late ninety minutes. Okay tell her three hours earlier you know like you do with your friends your late friends. That's a brush Ashworth fame with Marlowe actually remembering this full circle. I actually want saw marlow in the wild as her. Joey cafe on Santa Monica and sweetser. She was in there and Joe's cafe one of my favorite things to get. There is a tuna melt. Wow that is full. Circle the full circle really boring when you're waiting for your food to come at a restaurant that is you. Draw your finger around a salt and pepper Shaker. It's that circle. That is definitely a Cynthia full circle. One walk around the kitchen island circle. Shoes right now. So she's talking to Yvonne the phone because that's the only place that you've is gonNA shoot now on facetime. I'm going to have a baby every season. Yeah and the other talking Cynthia's really trying to make this thing happen and it's not going to happen. It's not catchy enough. Okay Ashqar tag but snake gate the smart smart good enough not really care about it. So it's like it's barely even a gate eight. You know like you don't have to be a gate if something is like excessive controversy but this is just like a passing interest to Cynthia yes. We're I need clarification. Snake eight snake eight so she has marlow marlow finally gets there Marlowe marlins like. Oh Hey I haven't been to this area yet behind the zoo. There's nothing inherently wrong with being next to zero you but for some reason the way she says it and knowing that Cynthia invited her there it somehow feel soap appropriate. That of course. Let's meet behind the zoos because it's right by had the cellar wine cellar Hashtag Bailey So she's like okay. Well you're okay with sitting out here because it's kind of hot. I guess I'll sweat. They are so they start talking about Kenya coming in with their marching band. Tomorrow's Big Jim pig opening of her. Yes and Cynthia's like well okay. Congratulations umbrellas like well. Besides her interacting at your friend your friend interrupting and Cynthia's like yeah. Can you did make an entrance pat. You have added her so she came and and then Cynthia does this new thing with her new is I have to say also best surgery on Bravo. Not sure if it surgery if it's tape if it's just a a lot of both talks would ever Cynthia's doing. It's the Best Armed Bravo. She looks amazing but she does. This new thing with her is where she just squeeze her is like when she's like. I'm giving you attitude now. So Cynthia just gives her that squint and that was disrespectful me launching my business. Who would do such a thing it? I'm like you would you one hundred percent that Marlo. If you knew anybody with the drum you would have done that. Let's be honest. Yeah I mean it's like I feel. She has done something like that. I'm just trying to remember what it was but I'm pretty sure she has done some ridiculous antics like that before the Yes I am. Cynthia says well my relationship with Kenya's different than yours. And what are you lovers and the music stops and Cynthia just gives her about squint again. Baby squint yeah see this is this is what happens when you have Cynthia Bailey. I wears that you can learn how to squint behind behind the shades. I don't know what I'm saying. I know you would think she'd be squinting less but yeah so she has a new fillers. So they're very like squint went squint. Forward fillers yes. I'm MARLA says Will you said it was different so I thought maybe such well I mean it's different Just like I know that you have a different relationship with Ninian even though you're not telling her off in public doesn't mean that you're not giving you the business behind closed doors and marlins basically her whole thing is that she just were. She just wants to make sure that Kenya not running all over. Cynthia Cynthia's like listen. She knows what time it is child like. I can get it together no matter what you can lay on your end table every night and not worry about that honey. Yeah so Marla says well you know I just worry because we've we've come so far in our friendship she have really. That's why attitude lunch meaning till candy that she had a mutual friend who recorded me downtown's twin square squint. You just tell me. Just tell me first of all you'll know if meany ever releases this recording put. I'm still doubtful of but if she ever records it gets wet. You're going to hear the other person was shocking to so the answer is there. Ask for the evidence since Syria seriously also like it's just like truly the least consequential detective story story of all time trying to figure out who about this recording and then especially when I love talk about a recording when they're being recorded for a reality. TV Show on top of everything. Yes yes and then we get a break. Because it's a very very dramatic seem so we get a break and guess. Did you see this. I was Mesa. Gail Simmons doing a movie preview doing a Bravo movie preview for little women. It's like okay. How many little women's are we gonNA have? K- How many times are you going to remake that movie it's enough okay. Stop with the little women. Second Gail really like gale. Oh my God I love Gilson's but my dear friend Gayle image. How funny someone must have a sense of humor? Having Gail of all people promote little women I and I don't think so bless her. It is so gail like the warmth in this preview is so cal she's like wow they were so transporting. They had graphic Ravi ta I was like Okay and then she tries to cry. She's like I have a daughter so it's definitely something I felt in my heart really Gail L. Little women what was left. I'm anyone called you that poor gas. You only agreed to do the promotion because you thought it was called little pies. Sorry little chicken wings as a different movie Mary. Louise Alcott is the name of an ice cream the name the author of Ben and Jerry's Alcott Dale Louisa May Alcott Alcott. Sorry Mary Louise Mary Louise Parker Alcott. mary-louise Parker has nothing to do with the mary-louise Parker Bond Gale. Okay I'm not making anything. It's also very important scene. Did you record me according now and Marlins like me we now while I'm being recorded my bravo so so marlow starts to cry says okay. Cynthia definitely finally say something. I won't record it Marlins like that's that's awful. That's awful. I ah that you would have that tuna melt so close to my face. It really smells. That's awful awful. Why would you ask them to put tuna? What would you ask him to put Avocado Kado on the grill? Why it's bad enough? Reading Judah while speaking to my face but you also had a grill so it's just just that much more potent really Cynthia. How many bushy thinks you need in one sandwich? Cynthia Oh why would you melt something on top of tuna. Why so Cynthia's like Well I covet snake gate. 'cause because only a snake would do it. I'm like actually snakes. Don't have opposable thumbs so good luck. Were Recorder Yeah exactly. Last time I checked. They're no snakes on the press. Press Corps could literally be any other kind of AD. I'm Herman P snake and I'm here to interview you. I'm just GONNA turn this dictaphone on just one second. Oh God dammit. Another interview ruined. Well fortunately I can crawl my tail to hold this pencil. But but I can't hold a pat because I don't have hands. Can I get them out. High would could someone. Just please press this button Dan. I'm acting sort of like not just a little bit. But we know it's just it's very no one. No one's GonNa help me know Barbara Walters. Oh you're tired okay. I support youth dear but snakes shouldn't be reported by you'd Never Normal Jane Pauley God this is GonNa be today So Cynthia let seem so marlow. Who have we been together that I could even record you and second when if you even talked talked bad about Nina to me and since he was like well that's just it? I don't think I do Hashtag snake. Hashtag be jam. I like. I liked that. Cynthia didn't even consider that. The basic logic of it of lake. I think MARLA recorded me and didn't think oh wait. I haven't been alone with more for months and the Johns I haven't alone were there. I didn't talk about any like why didn't Cynthia dislike. Remember when she had conversations with people one on one like Giovanna Jonah where there was actual footage of her with Vonda needs biggest henchmen. Yes so Cynthia is now confused. And so she squinting and just nodding a lot like she's figured something out but she hasn't so Marla could have turned this into a big fight but she didn't. She was just like I would never do that. So Cynthia's it's like well. In the spirit of positivity you know I was thinking of not inviting you to my baby winds other Hashtag be jam Hash Segregate Gate Hash Wine Gate. I was thinking not inviting you. The HASHTAG wind gate. But I'll invite you. Will you know what speaking of positive energy. What about Anini? Maybe you should pose with needy. So yeah so anyway. So yeah. Of course Marlowe trying to reconcile you. Reconcile Ninian India ongoing and Cynthia's lighten. No Yeah and now canty and todd and they're tiny Venus struck. Oh God so this listen really triggered me so candian todd they show up at like a decrepit old house. Yes and there's like a broken window it's like in the middle of nowhere and we turns out. This is actually the future home of Ole tacos and Tequila. which is the the Mexican Mexican sequel? Too late Yes. So he's like a Taco place. So it's going to be a speakeasy Kinda setup cod got ya Ya exactly Tatas. Just like he's just becoming the worst. I can't stand. His ideas are so basic right there so oh like okay we're at a TACO rest so we're in a house in the middle of suburbia and then there's going to be it's GonNa be a Taco restaurant but then also speakeasy to come on now. Yeah and it has everything that's going to trigger you for sure. It has taught as trust spamming candies many then as todd. Not only spending our money but getting a place that needs five hundred thousands of remodeling and then it even has seen laying out why he does all of this because you know we talk about this all the time about him. Suspending olive candies money. And I'm like I think he's just trying to work but then here we get an explanation. Takes it yes. Yeah because we literally get like first of all candy is not happy about this because apparently they todd got the lease on this place or bought it like seven months ago and hasn't done anything he's like he keeps saying okay. This is what the Interior is going to be and candies like It's been sitting here for six months. Okay and he's like Oh but babe everything says it's going to happen comes through. I haven't had one fumble get like Are we sure about that because I feel like every month every year you have like new crazy ideas and it's like candies ideas that are not fumbles. Yes us and she's like. Yeah but you're kind of missing the point you know like I love working but you've keep you've had a sign another lease you have this. Then you've got an eighteen wheeler Taylor. Whatever the hell that is? He's like Cores Bay and she says well we can't just keep spending money. We don't finish projects he's like stoops. Oh ooh begging your mom for can't be in the store tone small. Yeah I can't. He basically says that todd has felt pressure to make make his own money to prove the world that he doesn't need candy money and that's why that's why he he does this every single season but the thing is that he like. I'm sure he makes money. Of course but so far. We haven't seen todd bead. Like much of an presidio about anything. So yeah I don't know. Alexei runs the restaurants. That does all that stuff. The thing is he's trying to prove that he doesn't need her money money but he's using her money to do all the stuff and not only that we see a clip of Mama Joy like giving you candy and Then he opens a restaurant but it's using the moms image again. Yes fame so you're trying to prove to her mother by using her mother at allow us. Just yeah I just I just kind of feel like. It'd be much more impressive todd. If he were wasn't always if you weren't always trying to kick off some other entrepreneurial thing like just if he was like okay. I'm here with the Candies Corporation and we overseeing this and that and whatever but you know it's like you know I just don't trust people on these shows every single season they've got like a new idea a new thing because always feels like they're just like throwing stuff at the wall and waiting for somebody to stick and doesn't really it doesn't speak to me of like ooh I'm really business savvy person. It's more like I've got a platform. I should capitalize on it. What do I like I like staplers? I'm coming out of my own type stapler. And it's like this is not like authentic to who you are and what your passions are. Yeah I like Stapler Tacos and you know Horn Jazz. But but you have to have a password to get in. Yeah that's why it's like things like Sonia Ed with her toaster oven or fe Dra who has like going to a funeral roll home and then was I had a donkey booty video but also a lawyer like it was like what are you. What what is it? Like I understand it's live it's probably mandated by the producers like. Can you start some things that we have sent me a shoot but it's like it's just like crazy when suddenly they uh-huh and this is what I like to do now. Also yeah so candies like come on. Just get it together like finish one thing and I've been through a recession. You haven't K.. And and he's like recession she's like That's what the world news thing says she goes and he's like he's like what I mean and he starts like shaming her for like preparing for the worst which is what a business person should do. You know it's like it's like he hasn't even heard heard of a recession before and he's like wow you're the one who's normally like. Oh do it could do it but now you got me scared. Almost like you're scared of success and she's like Ha Ha you can't play that with me. Yeah she's like I ab success. And that's let's not like overly you mentioned this before for but let's not overlook the fact that with renovations to oil. Gee I'm sorry well gee breakfast and some other place and Ole Gee that's all gonNa cost six hundred sixty thousand dollars. Yes and she keeps asking she she listens. She's like so what about this project is one hundred thousand and what about this project. Oh Oh better hundred thousand and what about this project just a few hundred thousand dollars. Oh my God go make some money. How about that? Yeah yes seriously Dr Hoover. Yeah so you'll you'll get that five hundred thousand dollars for remodelling note. Yeah but either way she's candy is like I've outlasted a recession and I know how it goes and I'm safer move so like take me out of date so now let's go to Cynthia at her Bailey Bailey's seller she's like last. You have found this a meeting space for the wine cellar and debated room which I guess as a party rental space. I don't know I feel like Cynthia. Every season does something with a large empty room. It's like every single season. There's some other large empty room that needs to be like debuted. Yes but this one's going to have lots of plastic vines in it. Whatever he wind person really needs to to see some plastic ivy vines staple exactly the thing says why like Plastic Ivy? Yeah Oh so. She's going over it with party planner and then Everyone starts to get ready for this party and to seek is now it is twelve oh seven. PM Yeah exactly and then it was like one forty eight PM porsches getting into trying out a yellow outfit but it like shows off too much of her post pregnancy Z.. Pooch and she's like why do we have times dams about like when she got into a tweety bird so then Mike comes in and and he's not dressed for the party at he's just regular cert- his regular t shirt but he hugs Cynthia I and he looks right directly in the camera which is another reason. I don't trust him why I don't know. Oh but it bugs me. He's like Hello Keira. Hello my I love. He's he's a sports caster. He's like used to looking directly into the camera. That's like that's like okay. Okay okay okay okay. I'll get off right now. But then he's wearing a t shirt that says Tequila helps Mike Nice thing to wine cellar. Yes seriously disley hello. Are you promoting the wine cellar or the nascent O.. L. Ole Gangs and candy and toddler. Arriving everybody's what he's basically just arriving and giving them shed like. Oh deletions. What you most expensive bottle? I'm totally by this with my own. Money ha ha ha. Of course. Todd Todd does that and so then candies like now Cynthia. I'm so she keeps coming up different ad and she sees it through and then we see a montage of all of Cynthia's businesses which I'm pretty sure have all disappeared right. We see like the modeling agents. Bailey daily agency. Let me see like the book bags we see the high wear we see. Like I don't know decorative Napkins Napkin. I don't know it's it's just like so many things I'm like what happened. Atkin rings the panic. The belly wind vines now available at the Bailey a seller on the wrong long. I don't know if any of these businesses are still around I would google them recap already and honestly. I don't care but I haven't seen Cynthia. Bailey eyewear because she loves a big aviator which is like the only classes I can wear. Yeah I thought it was funny. That candy was acting as Cynthia as the next judge on Shark tank and I'm like Quite damning now. I'm looking at Cynthia. Bailey eyewear let's see here home. Cynthia Bailey eyewear. Id there is a site for it. Cook Cynthia Bailey. I WEAR DOT COM on. But it doesn't show up under any of the Google shopping. You know when you Google something assist shopping so everyone shows up there. Yes I guess you can only get it from her website so anyway she's paying her hus- Monster. We know that match which. That's good. Little victories. Small Victories Cynthia is. She pays her server bills. Oh wait no I got A. I found the Cynthia Bailey on Cynthia. Bailey eyewear is it's on Google shopping specifically it's in Walmart. Oh Wow oh good for her. Look at us. We're shaming someone for being Walmart like we're Tamra Barney. Look No. She's in Walmart she's She has an aroma third. Wait a second. This is organic Cynthia Bailey. aromatherapy soy scented candles soy's scented has yeah sorry has India Bailey. It's the it's Cynthia or Cindy Bailey. Apparently he has toys scented candles with essential oils row. Soy Santos said that sounds delicious. So wait wait okay okay. This is really okay. I'm sorry I'm down this path here. If you go onto Google shopping you can get a Cynthia Bailey in readdress cardboard cutout life-size. Please oh my God a life size the alley that is only if it squinting no no. She's she's a wait. Wait one last thing. Someone on posh mark is apparently I guess reselling their Cynthia Bailey really glad reading glasses and they put them on a little fern. It's like Cynthia Bailey. Glasses made for ferns. Since I'm looking at Cynthia Bailey shopping to wow walmart. That's really cool Cynthia. Okay take everything back except that I go to the bottom of the website for for eyewear and it says we have amazing partnerships and as the Bill Bailey Agency at the bottom side clicked it and it says error looks like this domain isn't connected to a website site yet so she's paying service she's just you know keeping the businesses open PA- I wear some Walmart. Who the hell am I to say something? No I listen. I'm not. I'm not ashamed that that's like A. That's a huge deal. I mean our shirts are not in Moammar. Rub It in so I okay. Everyone's candle so yes so I said that Campbell so we know that this party at Hashtag Bailey. Wine cellar smells like soy based in plastic tuna and soy actually smoke delicious. At this point it's now turning into a meal also poor sick. Arise Marlowe arrives. avs Merlo sits out. They are out. She's wearing some weird like ice skating. She's kind of wearing designer. Who makes all the wedding dresses? What's what's his name Nub net? I forgot his name but he makes this year. We always tease him. Because he makes like the sheer wedding in cream colored wedding dresses. Oh yeah that guy. Oh God what's his name. He's a Persian dude because he was on. She's on houses sunset. He didn't Nina's thing. Yeah so it looks kind of like Anini wedding dress but anyway so everybody's kind of talking joking around and my kill whispers to Candy's Hey candy stick around. Okay stick around stick around candy stick around like oh pedrosa couture pedram couture had draw. Yes Patrick Yeah so yeah so Canada's like okay so So Cynthia is like a receiving gifts and everything and you need sends is over Some fresh Sushi to go with the soy and then on top of that. There's a card that says I've been a supportive friend today. Won't be any different Blah Blah Blah is basically saying like I I support other women and I'm getting credit right now for being a bigger person right now publicly. And congratulations on the opening of your new business new leaks yes Marleau. Hello makes sure she reads the card out loud read it Oh if you can share the worse you can you share the good too so do me a favor when you read it. Can you read it really closely to this flower. That's on my lapel. Thank you so the house to read it and then she asked her pretend to give a fuck you know 'cause he's reading it to a group of people so she's like an tear she's like the fact that Ni put pen to paper was beyond the aspect of the fact that she's not here because we're fighting over nothing basically well. It Sucks Mike. Okay and turn on Kenya in five four. Yeah so so Cynthia's all choked up and candies even blood on her and Porsche goes. y'All here crying from a car. She's so candy attacks Kenya. She's like hurry up because Mike Hills probably gonNA propose hurry up and get here so then more people come in Kenya comes in and pepped opaque which is fitting because she's a giant stomach ache so she's talking to Cynthia in Canby and she's like listen. We're married now so I wanted invite a real taken so I wanted to buy you dinner. Mike is GONNA be there. Mark is going to be there the suet triple day I. It doesn't issues. I love your Kenya lab so Cynthia shows can you the card from Ninian. She goes well. It takes a fake aac person to apologize but I don't see an apology in there. She has to apologize she she just thinks he'll just let bygones be bygones and Cynthia's already like I think it was from place to throw shade. Funny Be Hilarious spat. It's not the right place time for that. And then she screams at the camera. Here we go. Yeah and then Cynthia gets back to you. The the the real the real priority of the night which is trying to make sake eight of paying child. Who's naked is like what what's that snake? You did a snake come through your gate no snaky. It's you about the secret recording. Oh you mean recording gate no snaky it just keeps saying over and over. I think thank you thank you so the close up on Marlo Nevada. What's That sound effect one into so Kenya is your mom here and Cynthia's like his mom Thomas here in Kenya like Oh all the families here. Well I'm telling you Cynthia. I have a feeling. I think that Mike might propose. My stomach has butterflies replies hence the color of my dress and candy is giving her. This look like ooh candies getting out there. Seen frozen until I cannot stop doing my nieces you will one day. You're going to be alone at home. This she keeps CBS hearing the voice. And it just keeps going fucking thing over at everybody out. There with kids is probably beating the steering wheel right now. Like shut up. It sounds like that part of my one of my favorite eight songs by Howard Howard Jones. He's like your words because if you scared Oh in the New York no okay with everybody's GonNa have some Song Song. We'll go over it later. Yeah I'll play for you later. We could try to limit is but I'M GONNA make everybody car-crazy I've been able to that so anyway. Cynthia's like well. Well if he was going to propose he would've added my mom and she's not here and then we see the mom coming in the French. Walking in it is such a Dick move of Kenya do that like so so so dick and actually when she starts to say like well all of Mike Families here at Candy if I remember correctly candy is seems to realize okay. You're trying to do and candy tries to move the conversation in a different direction and Kenya's like like no. I am going to birth this balloon. I'm GonNa rain on this parade of right now. How so can use a gross person? I don't know how anybody is friends with Kenya. Yeah it was so obnoxious and candy like when Cynthia goes away. Candy is like furious furious. She's like why would you bring that up to her. That is so not cool like and then she tells us she was like. Why would she do that? So you're GonNa thank God you ve honest here too but for you to look Nina's but since Nina can't be here a little proxy so she comes comes over and say just wanted to make sure you got means gift. What a great gesture kick Outta here? Okay you like you have nothing to fucking do on your own. You're pathetic. This is so sad to watch. I know she really needs to just like stopping. Obviously you clearly recorded her like very very obvious so yeah so then. Candy is just like gritting her teeth Kanye and Kim as I should I say something to her. She don't Ju don't say other. She's so angry and and then people more people search arrive and candy is pacing around outside. Because she's just so angry you know and then and then it starts to. We start to. Mike is getting trying to get ready. And getting nervous I'm just saying like clip around the party. Like marlins me and Porsche talking about Dennis. Yes marlow. Yeah marlins talking about Dennis. And she's just is trying to get to get over. Just take take hotdog back just taking back. What's the big deal? And they're talking mission and she's like well we haven't gone to therapy like yeah. I think therapy would be good. Marlow foods thing is just porsche. Just communicate just communicate. He he was fucking someone while she was pregnant seriously asking funding next time. You're pregnant you know that way you'll know serve wrong. You know you know who should communicate. Indicate Marlow when she's running ninety minutes late for our podcast. How about that five years? Never forget I know where it's like suddenly like been over. We're like we haven't talked. And now we said it and now we said we didn't talk about Marlowe being late to our podcast. We didn't talk about how book to be guest when now we said it. Camille grammer Emmer so Cynthia and Mike They're giving their speech to thank everybody for coming and he's like Cynthia Bailey's time everybody so she's like I'm I'm not gonna say that and when say something Find on the wall Mouth just kidding mouth. Don't say anything. Oh I don't get to say anything because I'm so tiny ninety now. I'm trying to make my speech but apparently people can't hear me because I'm so small. Don't step on your your your human-sized this is this is GonNa last for the next five years on this podcast. That's ongoing mouth in Hunkin by Rick Moranis normal sized so I don't WanNa fall into a glass of wine by accident. It is this notion or glass of milk. So there's like Well I'm not going to say does anybody else want to say something. No sent the year event. Why what anybody else want to give a speech at your wife? You fucking weird out. Why would anyone have anything to say about being in a wine cellar like I wanNA thank My Mom My Dad for being such supportive parents that allowed me to get to a place in my life where I could take this afternoon off to Wants to take the MIC. But she's a Kenya. Do you have anything to say in Kenya like No. I'm good. I think that we've come to a silent agreement. And now she knows not to come for me. And that's I sent me a baby girl so even make some stupid toast and then she's like I know them that's been working on this for a long time so congrats even though it's above ground it's not really a seller but So then Mike. Mike gets up there to do it to like he goes. I would like to propose everyone's like Oh chose chose that's Karoo or is it. I don't know I don't know so. He's like sorry sorry okay. Here's the Cynthia's adventures you know. I have to admit when you said you were opening opening a wine bar. I said you don't know what thing about wine. I mean you drink it. Why the hell would you help people open a wine bar where you actually? I have knowledge of said subject the open with any G.'s. Nice toast host at the wine bar you day well. When's India said that? She was opening a wine bar. I said wow that's going to be three strikes and you're out bottom of the ninth. Cynthia loses the game. But guess what in this series she went up with game number two and here she is here Eh. Knock at home with a wine. Cellar are these sports analogies lost on this crowd or the wrong crowd I put dot. Oh daughter comes up. I was like who's Dot I I saw that and I was like Dwight Dwight's here So is your Arafat can't dot no relation to gene. Okay that's a lie gene and I are actually best friends so his daughter comes up. She's like secure doing it wrong. You have to post something like this. It is Champagne Cynthia Bailey Champagne. So it's like what you want me to prop this O.. M. Not a ring. Wow we you are just got a yes even WanNa pop this and the no but the bottle had a question mark on it. Pop the questions. Blassie wow I levels. He's really he's really going. Wow Wow wow. That's that is a top. Ten sportscenter highlight if I ever I saw one. You don't know what that is. No still laughing at this so He's like Cynthia. You're my I love my life my heartbeat. My emotions like You know nothing about wine. Will you accept me for my past. Even though you don't know the difference between a Cabernet Zinfandel you are here for me. And my present present that involves you not understanding the difference between ports and Beaujolais okay so he kneels and the kids are holding lean-to pieces of Amir like the little orphan. Annie Heart that's broken into but then put back together like the parents have one part and she has been part and it says family emily and gather font. No I love. Gather all over housewives and their names are like like a one-sided says Cynthia Noel and the other side says Mike and other Kayla Ella and then the other daughter and they the entire time I was just thinking where did they get that heart. Where did they get? Did they get that custom made. And how much they spend on it for this one moment. Gag I was just thinking. Well thank God that mere comes apart easily just gets a housewives marriage you now you can just take apart very easily. Both can go to the individual homes homes. That's a pre-nup part right there. That's a pre nup. That's that's something that mark would not appreciate. Ah So then everybody you know. So happy for her Blah Blah Blah Blah and my kill 'em the the proposal with. She doesn't have to be thirsty anymore. It's like you're kind of an asshole gay eh Also is happy and she. Then it's like the next day she's at Lake Bailey with Mike and they are are on day one of a very boring engagement and then we go over and was the eva and her children are running around and being kids even sitting there holding up a roll of paper towels which is so eva this season. Yeah Yeah I really am mad. That she's pregnant this season because I felt like I felt felt like her bitch flower blooming after the reunion. I thought we were. I thought we were like entering a great either era and instead of having either being exhausted pregnant said we get even with paper towels paper towel. Yeah probably not. It's probably not even select Desai's like come on and now the meat of the episode Kenyan Mark Together in the car This is kind of awkward and awful. Great a tesla. Fight what we've always been waiting for so Kenya. They're off to their triple eight with like Andy and todd and since the end Mike and mark just looks so bored and so miserable to even be in this car with his wife. I mean the guy really does have just asshole whole face. He has the face and vassal. He just looks like a total asshole and he's got like a great smile and you know he's Co hosted by them life on that smile. Yes yeah it's a good looking guy and probably coasted. Yes and I've been totally on Kenya side even though Kenya's a monster and I can't believe I've been on her side but this guy just seems like such a prick. Well thank you for evening out this playing fields because God she's such a Dick too but first we start. Yeah well. I'm starting to get early starting my Kenya no hatred again early. But she's not at this part. We're just seeing what an asshole. This guy is right. Yeah Yeah so Kenya's like talking about how how Mike proposed to Cynthia and Marcus like. Oh wow she surprised. And she's she's like well and like basically it comes out that she ruined the surprise and Kenya's insisting that she already knew and Marcus so you switch so you snitched. You sold out the guy. That's a big surprise Kenyans like well she knows coming. Ha Ha said it wasn't a surprise is changing the subject. Do you know what I do. I summoned the car. I can tell the car. Come get me and he goes. You can pray tell to come get me New York work. She's like well. It doesn't turn major corners or anything. He's like Oh doesn't turn great one a self driving car. They can't turn great car loser that becomes like his thing for the next five minutes really driving a self driving car. That doesn't turn. I mean look at this idiot does married with self driving car. That doesn't turn my right. Everyone everyone everyone look at this car turning. It's because someone's driving because it doesn't even jerk. Yeah so so evil. And she's like a sports car right and goes. Oh great so you got my child in a car. You're driving fast and yourself driving crate and you're probably speeding because as you said sports car. And she's like I don't speed. You gotTA speeding ticket the other day. Whatever back Yeah Oh? Did you get the speedy. Did you get speeding ticket or was it the self driving guard. They can't even turn around. Look order anyone high five someone high five. And he's like breathing hard. He looks like he's I don't know it's like something's wrong with us guys. This is not this is not a good guy well he he is not a good guy. He's a real Dick. I'm sorry so candy so now everyone's like arriving at the at this restaurant and Todd's being organized to candy because he's like realizing that like he might be running out of money money from her so he's like. Wow you look so beautiful tonight. Your makeup is just amazing. I love it when you do it yourself. Because that's when you're the prettiest you're pretty also you spend less US money so that I can spend more. Wow look at us in white chains and look for both were twins matching. We're twins. It was cute because he was wearing his affect. I can't do as like might be fun to match todd. Now he's annoyed but I think it's so cute. I can't wanted a match him so awesome awesome. I love a couple of it shows up in matching outfits. Bul Well No. It would have been more disgusting if they both chose to match but I like that she just kind of wanted the nagy in that way in a sort of affectionate thing in here. So it's like a so Michael now that it's official. Did you pull out your phone. Start hitting up your xs and being like sorry. And since he's like well someone got a lot of congrats texts from their XS. I did not hear for mine so that was fun. I think that Peter ear and will are both Still trying to repay their bill from cricket wireless they both on there on a family plan together the bar one plan census like yeah. I feel totally different today. I mean I've felt different in the bed. Oh okay so she's like you know what was is weird that Kennedy came in and she said have a feeling he's going to propel us. I mean that's just crazy and candies like before they can really commiserate over this. Can the COMSAT offers end so this swap around the seats for the women's that way they're not sitting across from her husband's Whoa and they're talking about Cynthia now having to plan their plan her wedding. Kenya's like I've already picked out had the privilege then you so they're like. Wow Okay yeah you know. It's not your wedding law. You know yes so so mark is like so Mike. How was the proposal? Were you nervous and Mike. Well I was nervous. You know I was it was really hard trying to not tell her what was happening. And all but I guess that worked out. Yeah I'm so glad that surprise wasn't ruined by anyone anyone specifically at this table. That's really nice. Glad that didn't happen. E Asa Kenya's like well. Why shouldn't I plan the wedding? I'm good at sticking to a budget. Ask Mark Mark. I'm not saying a word on that one loser news or yeah. Yeah so we're going to stick to a budget that she bought a car can't even drive on. Its own with her curves. Well I was just saying how it was so romantic tickets. Michael got on his knees and that was so thought out. How did you propose Marco Ed Callum because she said she wants to do over proposal and so basically leave? The story. Is that like I guess. She was in New York and he was up late working or something like that. She came back. She came to the apartment. I guess he wasn't ready for her her and she surprised him by shirt at the apartment and He ran into the other room. Got The ring and showed it to run said look who's official. Oh now and he what. She woke him up by the way he's like. Well you know she knew I was working and she woke me up so I had to run inside for the ring so romantic. Yeah he didn't even get on his knee or say would you be my wife. You just said look. WHO's official now? Yeah and Kim's like yeah what did you say. So he tells us and then candies like oh so so he didn't even ask you. He just told you and he's like well just ask her about the wedding. How Romantic was that this wedding and she's like best day of my life? Well Second Winning Miss Is USA Candy. Says I think what we all were thinking. Which is I'm pretty shocked at Brooklyn? Didn't make it into Kenya's top two days of her life uh-huh wow wow third place third place finish for Brooklyn. We have to only assume so he. She is just poking poking poking and yeah he's managed by the way well because because here's the thing. This is the way Kenya operates. Mark was coming for her for the the self driving in car that can't turn turn corners so her way of getting back is the lead lead him down in his passive aggressive confrontation about their wedding. Yes yes so. She just keeps going going going crafted like he's an asshole to. I'm not saying her. Being an asshole makes him less of an asshole. Kaci is an asshole. It's like why would you have all all of your friends together just to make your man look stupid. You know what's the fucking point like going after somebody so they're just both terrible and they're basically that couple who invite you out so they can fight in front of you then. Yeah it gets real awkward. I mean it gets real. They're terrible so what about this. I mean I don't know if you guys did premarital marital counseling Cynthia. Well we've both been divorced so I don't know that that would be the worst idea and brain up yeah. She says that that knowing that she's fully going to call out mark the pre-nup situation in like just a minute from that list here in the conversation. which is it's obnoxious? But I thought it was hilarious. I love watching passive aggression on TV. It's like my favorite thing. So candy starts talking about why she got a prenup. She was like look. You know I view it as as like insurance for the marriage. Okay you never wanna use it but things happen in life and so you just have it there and so it's not an issue romance. Whatever I look at as insurance for she has like actually really really great response and take on it and then Kenya immediately goes mark? Didn't WanNa pre-nup so we don't have one carina and he's like well we didn't even talk about a pre map. I mean you really have some revisionist history. They're sick We talked about it and you said you didn't want mine and he was like. Oh okay so we didn't talk about it because of me I mean listen. This is how I work. You even bring up a pre-nup and we're done okay. It's over. I didn't understand his logic in this. He's he's like. Oh well we didn't have a discussion about it but if you did bring it up our relationship would be over Mike. That's probably why you didn't have a discussion about it. You Dick Wad. 'cause she's saying they had a discussion discussion. He said he didn't want one and he saying no. We never even discussed it but if we had I would have dumped you right. But that's most she's saying that we didn't have a discussion. Oh she says she says say they did have a discussion and he didn't want a pre map and he's saying I will discuss that and if we had if we had discussed it we wouldn't even be in the situation because I wouldn't buried you in the first place because if you if you WanNa be with me you're either all the way with me or you're not with me at all and she's like well I. I started off in the industry. I was a corporation since I was seventeen. I'm a self made person. Nephew helped me build something. And he's like I did help you. You build Kenya Moore. It was a fucking mess. Fixed am allocate you. Now you're doing great and then they're like well let me ask you this. Would you give Kenya half of Soka or whatever the name of his restaurant is and he goes you and I told her I said you can have it. I'll build another one on and they're like. WHOA WHOA WHOA? You're on camera. You're on camera. Yeah he's like. Take everything from scratch to do it again. I just wanted to add here. When he says he fixed Kenya? More hair occur. It was a mass announced doing really well which now it is doing really well. I don't know how much he did for it but can use like. Oh he's a dirty player. He's the type to grab dirt off the grammar thrown throat in your face. I was like well. Did he help you or didn't he. You know 'cause he's laughing like way too hard. I think the reason why she said dirty players because I think that was his way of getting on the record that he like helped build Kenya. More hair counts. You can play this game. You met your match this time. I say who you saying that to through Kenyon Yuck to Kenya because now she's trying to do this to him and get all this stuff on camera and he's like okay. Well let's get it on camera that I totally helped you build that business exactly so candies asking mark where you know how like now that there are two years into the relationship. What is Marcie in Kenya? What's his take or whatever and he's like well we're different you know? Kenya likes a little flash. And she's like when you say a little flash though he goes. Let me finish. You're jumping you've got to respect the conversation at any any star saying I don't WANNA BE MR flash. The flash is not real and like I will not take that away from you because not everyone is like flash but I hate to break it to you sir your wife has been on TV for like several years. And if you don't like flash why did you marry a real housewife of Atlanta beauty beauty with hello. She's like well. I don't think it's flash. I'm a self made person and I'd proud of that. You know. Remember that conversation we had about me driving a Bentley before we were married. And he's like yeah. I said let's take care of the house before we get the Bentley. And she's like well. My House is paid for it. So why shouldn't didn't get at Bentley because you're talking about having a child and getting married to some like what the hell you're not built for this. I don't even know that she was ever I. I don't know if I if I take I should say I don't know if I take mark side on this because I I kind of feel like what we're seeing in this in this conversation. And Tesla was he is actually kind of the way she's been describing him like there's been like a little bit of skepticism about while this while it's Kanye. Yeah you never know. She's always doing an angle to make look good but he has been kind of a Dick and condescending and I don't know I think that if she did want to get had a bentley she's allowed to get a Bentley. I think is allowed to. It's just that you're in a marriage like if you're in a marriage with somebody I don't know it just it works I just. I'm not sure I'm not sure if from watching them. I'm not sure if it would go the other way around. I'm not sure if she would be able to tell him not to get a Bentley. Well I don't I think it's that you can tell somebody to do what they're gonNA do. It's just I'm not on anybody's side. I'm just saying she's obviously coming from Ahrq publicly glee and for her to be like. Why would I even have to discuss it with you? Why do you have to have this discussion in public? I guess just the whole thing is bizarre to me. Well Here's the thing is that he is is he. I feel like he really shows his hand. It does next part because he starts saying that he likes people who are real as opposed to people who are flashy he he likes people who are real including meany who is cool when he met her and then he goes. She showed me the ultimate respect. She said Hi mark. Let me introduce you to my husband. And I found that to be the ultimate respect. Ultra odd I'm like wow so like basic manners basic common courtesy. What's and also like knowing that Nina is like Like a he and his wife of that his wife Anini are totally at odds and Anini is so obnoxious to Kenya and that he would like like just like go out of his way to talk about how great Nina's I mean you know I mean like it an ideal world. He would have his wife's back right. But even if you have a situation where it's like look on my on in my own man. I can think what I WANNA think. I feel like out of respect for devoured mark shoes out of respect for my wife I might think okay. I don't think he knew that bad. I think this is between my wife Fanini but I wouldn't be like well means actually great and she show me the ultimate respect that to me is the ultimate disrespect to his own wife. Yes of course. Yeah he's coming back back in like go and get her now. It's like she got one on him and he's going to go back on her and I don't know who brought up meany but they cut out whatever per or maybe just came up right now but it seems so weird to pivot like straightened. Tamimi seems like such an odd turn but yeah maybe you know maybe he is just like fuck you then Menia acne the and so. She's like well. Let me remind you mark when meany said whether she pregnant with a buffalo you got extremely upset because that was your unborn child. She was talking. Yeah can you remember what I told you to be upset. So then by the way he also is like no Nina's nice to me so I'm not going to dog her like you will dog your own wife life. Why do you understand how ridiculous that sounds? So then he's like well you know yeah. I was upset when he called. You said you were going to have to give birth to a Buffalo Obayashi. Tried to apologize and she said you and you didn't text her back. She's like no she did an ha and he's like you said she didn't. She has now she did not and I would would like to remind you. You were highly offended and so was I gotta call my good. Yeah and so mark is like it's it's about respect to how people treat you you and then candy is just sitting there like. Why are you doing this to your wife like you see her face? You see how upset she is. This is Pablo like. Why are you doing this tour? Yeah and yeah candies. Mortified and hill jumps. And he's like well you know I will say always been kind to me but if it affects my girl it affects me you know for example. Cynthia doesn't know anything about wine and so I don't know anything I'm just kidding. It doesn't work in every aspect. Actually I know a lot about why What were we talking talking about it? So then Sanal Kenya's going to give a toast and she's like she stands up to give her toes. which is very extra? You're in a restaurant just like you can tell us from your C.. That's okay you're not at a party and she's like I just WanNa go ahead go ahead good job good job go ahead go ahead pitch up good job just stupid mark. I just want to congratulate this beautiful couple for just being you and it was candy for being that. Ride or Die Fran Wow rider I woulda concept hopefully all you men or ride or die too and by man I mean mainly these two men by these men just really mark that corner hope they ride or die your wife who's standing right here. Yeah she's basically like congratulations to the two couples who are doing it right into mark. WHO's doing incorrectly? But hopefully the he learns from this very passive aggressive speech on gaming gaming and she adds that she goes hopefully. You're doing the brighter. I think your cells gentleman as the women where the crowns. Yeah Oh God I knew it was bad but I didn't know it was this ban. Yup I wonder who else. I'm wondering if we're going to see if the separation the divorce if that happens During the season I'm sure it will because Kenya would not save that for off camera. That is totally Kenya on camera. And I'll watch what happens. Live Andy asked how is going and she's like well it's cordial we're speaking so I guess they separate it so far okay well. That's IT for speaking of cordial time to make a cordial goodbye for the episode. A We hope you guys all have a happy Hannukah today because it is Hannukah and we'll I'll be back tomorrow with some below deck and then on Wednesday on Christmas. We are going to have remarried to medicine on Christmas. I forget what we said emerged medicine or I don't know just go check it out. I think so works for me. Check it out everything. Later this week we have marriage medicine. Orange County reunions begins. They'll be super super fun below deck. Also were doing a bonus that is full of your mailbag questions for mailbag. That'll be for next week. Think because the sleep of top chef. Yeah they're still lot okay. Maybe holidays just chugging along. We're we're barely organized over here. But yeah you know what's coming on the horizon on some day sometime dismissed whenever shutting the hell out now never K. by everybody.

Cynthia Cynthia Mike Kenya Cynthia Bailey Porsche marlow marlow Marlowe Cynthia Cynthia Oh dennis apple Champagne Cynthia Bailey Champ Nina marlins Rick Moranis Joe Window Samantha Todd Todd Bailey Cynthia Noel
"Gloria" by Laura Branigan (w/ Lindsey Weber)

Punch Up The Jam

1:08:35 hr | 2 years ago

"Gloria" by Laura Branigan (w/ Lindsey Weber)

"This is a head. Gum podcast Wednesday. Are you ready yet. No I am. Do you want to get coughs up. Not Good Sarah Cough Button. No but you can cut me out. I'll cough like away. Yeah I'll cough straight Because you never know who has it. Okay no turning back. It's time for take a really nice tone of voice sort of podcast. What they feel great? My Name's Miguel Prado. This budget and this is another episode. And Oh my God. Am I excited about it for so many reasons. But let me tell you more. After after introduce the guest Lindsey. I think we're going to do something crazy here. And use the song as the Intro Song itself so fucking you know her. She's a writer editor. Or maybe you listen to her podcast. Last weekly Lindsey Weber. That was amazing. Thank you so much song I just already so I feel so warm. It's just I don't feel like you can go wrong when you're listening to Gloria by Laura Brad again. It's so good may I ask what made you choose it. I've been thinking about it all all year of course because mainly because of the film. So you and Gloria Bell. I'm sorry no so there's two okay so so this is not. The song is not about that movie. It's in the movie. So there's this French film called Gloria. That came out last year or the year before and it made like kind of like a soft splash inflict foreign cinema like a soft splash. But everybody was like. This is an amazing film. It's about this woman like actually Kinda depressing but it's about coming out is like a triumphant Liam Finn in her own life story. Whatever and then I'm GonNa do that? Look just like what you're doing today. I'm coming out as a triumphant hero. Story exact thank you so much. So then Julian Morrow was sought and she wanted to come out as a triumph here in her own story. Okay and she was like this is amazing movie and she went to the director and said can you make this again but in English with me. It's just like this and say they remade the entire film. It's called Gloria Bell now Gloria yes. She's American her last name's Bell and credible film and it ends with the Song Gloria and the ideas like it's her theme song and so like you know when you hear a song and a film and it's just like that much more important to you absolutely even though you you liked it before I'd sung this song and Karaoke Elec- I obviously appreciate it yet. But that song and then I went back to hear the Italian version tip like we'll talk about. I'm sure and I was like. This is the perfect song I okay. It's funny you mentioned that perfect. Segue this song. A little bit starts to explode the premise of this show. Yes because has demi had previously put this on our punch ables playlists. Oh my gosh. So this is the first time we are attempting to punch up previously determined unpublishable song. He's not wrong. No He's not and this is what I love about. The new format is that I can do songs that are great. Take that Demi your fucking sucked Jerry. I'm sorry I'm a fan. I don't wear so yeah. It's it's a great song. I mean it's a perfect song. Maybe it's punishable in ways that are more nuanced. ooh who well. I have some very interesting notes about this song where to begin. I it's funny. You mentioned theme song. Apparently this is now all the theme song of the Saint Louis Blues. Yes hockey team. Yes we we talked about it on. Who weekly because we were talking to you? Laura Brannigan is kind of this like one hit hit wondering a couple a couple head. Yeah I had. I heard Gloria for the first time as a B side. I think on a vinyl that my mom had in our basement was like the song self control with the other hit. I feel like I love that song and but I only my parents had a million vinyls and this was the only one that I ever listen to two songs Loria until control exit and so I love self-control didn't appreciate Gloria for some reason. So it's just like Laura Brannigan Hero. She was she was not the hero of my story. I wasn't even my own story. My voice sounds terrible. I'm so sorry. No it's perfect. Momentum Shrill screech do so you need soft counterpoint. I do think okay yeah. Interestingly with the movie thing you just mentioned this song as you also mentioned was originally in Italian yes done by Italian disco King Umberto Cozy in nineteen seventy nine. This song was a hit in a lot of Europe. Italy Switzerland Austria Belgium Netherlands France Germany. So everyone over there knew the song but apparently it's really hard for songs in Italian to break in America. I hope that's not true now. I mean Ho- how not to be whatever but it's kind of better in Italian. Well it is a different song. It's different song. Let me play you a little bit of it while we talk about it the general just as the same. Oh Oh it's like exactly you can really the boom male voice you changes the the by a female empowerment song to hear the whispers. Yes I heard monkey odd. Yeah that's exactly it mm-hmm love us. Thought it was a direct translation. No at all. If you speak Italian you already know. That's a love Song Yeah. The general premise premise is that tolsey takes the role of the song's main character and his dreaming about an imaginary woman named Gloria. He describes this must be a translation. It describes his living days as misery but when he dreams of Gloria he says his nights are liberty which is incredible but also somebody pointed out in the translation that I was reading because I read a few of them in preparation for this. Of course at Gloria is also just like Hallelujah like it could be God like glory yes that makes eleven religious kind of song exactly because his friends say he's crazy and he argues the point that they have never met Gloria by one day when he finds her. He says his friends will talk about glorious beauty and her loyalty to accomplish the goal of realizing his dreams despite everyone else protests the protagonist sets all in his life to search what I don't even know four the four glorious vacation or whatever exactly that makes little sense. This song would have been nice in the film Gloria Bell like she could've used this guy exactly and it's also worth noting that it already had been translated to English By a man named Jonathan King also in nineteen seventy nine the same year it came out that is this version. I know never heard this. My what has sir. Where did you find this? Oh it's like two eight it it's all mid range. It's like missing everything. There's no baseball. It also feels like I'm angry at what was that. It's actually not doing a direct both. See like that's an uncreative in creative. That's just a cheap rip off like let's get Americans in here couldn't it does go. You're right it's like a guy in a to just like that feels like a weird al parody. So I'm not surprised that did not pop up in the same way that Laura Brannigan version is about about two three years later. 'cause hers is so inspired and it so and also her fucking is incredible and just like the in the very iconic Legacy of happy sounding songs that are sad yes which is my favorite genre most long's it is like cannon. It's part of that. She's a legend in those stories. Not only the hero of the story the legend. She's a legend in the hero. So at the time Laura Brannigan was working on her debut album She was mostly unknown except she was a backup singer for Leonard Cohen on his nineteen. Seventy six European tour. Wow what do those. What does that even sound like right? So curious to hear how she singing the backup vocals for Suzanne with that voice. How do you hide those pipes and backup vocals? I don't know or even what to his backup singers sound. What even do I'd love to know? Yes something exactly so. She was working on her debut album with German producer. Guess what his name is. I don't even know if I could get. This is beyond my. I should rephrase stage name. Jack White we really but not the Jack White No thirty years before the Jack White became the Jack White. I Know Poor Jack White now your real name again. His real name. I will not pretend but it's German. It's very Durham it's extremely. It's so German that I don't think it's actually English character. If you said it would be number from the Guy Nelson Asa happening he also actually WanNa throw in there. Worked with Engelbert Humperdinck and David Hasselhoff Barry Metal out a few other like this one thousand nine hundred eighty two or three like this was like the precise this was the depths of the eighties. Precisely correct yes thing because you were like oh he. He worked with engelbert crumbling. I need him down until the reasons for this. I did not realize was real real person. I only thought actually was the salad fingers character. Oh No that's Hubris and David Hasselhoff had hits. He he did is Ernie. This guy was probably the number one producer. I mean it's a great formula. What if we took an Italian hit or German hit or a French hit whatever and made it in an American Eric and they have the best disco anyway like they had better songs for Vida Byron? Paris's genuinely one of my favorite song. It's it's it's genius. It's so good it just instantly you you want to dance. I don't think American disco hits in the same way a talent and especially like Italian disco. Still you go back and you listen to it as well and you're like Whoa. This is that we never really only got a piece of American disco was CBD an Italian disco is CBD with a tiny bit of THC hell riches. It just doesn't work. We see he does not. It's a scam. So Yep exactly correct. I'm so glad we've figured this APP true. Everyone knows that Nice Laura was like all right. That's a great idea she had finally to helper. That's where this guy. Trevor Vouch comes. I'm definitely saying that I'm easing. Yes deadly he also produced Tony. I'm going to say her last name. Wrong Basil Basil or baseball. You Mean Mickey witch in a strange twist of fate was the song that knocked Lionel Ritchie's truly from the number one spot on the billboard. Hot One hundred which Laura Brannigan spent two weeks at number two beneath well. It's just the same people rice. But but wasn't Tony icon. eq One hit wonder person Yup Laura little bit less so I know Laura had a little bit more entering types and yes and literally the rank audio tapes. Tony was truly when we used to say one hit wonder she was the one of the first people that was name for my generation. It's I think we're alone. No right if any was he was the one Tony Tiffany. I'm a little older than you but not by much. Okay not bad. That's not by much not by much but it was when you when they would have like. VH1's one hit wonders Yoni was always included. I absolutely believe that I only know her songs from bring it on. Yeah and that Song Mickey Not Great Song. Let's just be come on. It's about fifteen seconds and then it needs to be over. It's less because it's weird but you never want to hear it again. No no no no that apart even you saying it now like I need to be talking about it. It's upsetting. Yeah I mean it's weird. So originally they were together to try to convert the same concept the love story. Yeah imaginary person which by the way already exists. It's called what a fool believes. That's a song thank you. Thank you for your consideration. They tried to convert it to a female perspective astray female perspective. And so they made it. Mario Are you no kidding audio which I'm like. Is that a nod to the original Italian nature or are you just chosen that saying well literally is but like singing a I love. Scientists have a name. Mario is upsetting. You lose a lot. It didn't work and they knew it so they're realizing we're going to need to reinvent the song also love songs to men don't eat we don't eat them. Men Get enough love from society culture. We don't need to constantly reaffirm them if they can reaffirm themselves men should love men more exactly. I'm secretly gunning for everyone to become gay working. Thank you everyone in the room's gay. No Right Enrica all right. I'm so glad you agree to that So they decided to reinvent it. WH- Laura Brannigan quoted as saying a girl that's running too fast for her own steps. Yeah Wow beautiful. Because we're still working in German English. Now we're still working in these with these people that are translating. Yes he is driven. There is a little bit of this this German into English. Let's one more note I have to say is that it earned her a nomination for best pop vocal performance for the year. Nineteen eighty two grammys. Of course the song actually got to stay on the hot one hundred for a record breaking thirty six weeks. The record being of course single wire Solo Female Act which. I don't know why it makes me sad but okay yeah yeah thank you so solo the last thing before we get into the song and they feel like the thing. Everyone's been screaming the whole time. They have to mention this. They have to mention this. No they haven't yeah but you specifically are GonNa all of this yeah It's a comment from my patron Camille Watson who gets are by Peter and get early access patrons love Patriot we also have patrons love them to Jeff. Truly normal fans are great but money to give me it's hard not to prefer people they are. VIP's say anything to me. I love everybody that listens to this podcast but I will say your name on air. If you're a patriot. Yeah it feels weird. Not Saying say his name again. Pay Tron Camille Watson meal. Okay so she says I know hockey isn't huge. A lot of places. But Gloria is the Saint Louis Blues Victory Song and this led me to learn that there is an active verified. Twitter account for the deceased Laura Brandon Brandon. Run by. Her friend. Didn't question Mark Legacy manager in quotes. Kathy a love Kathy. Kathy absolutely lost it when when Pete Blackburn a CBS sports threader started a joke where he said the Boston Bruins Victory Song Gloria. She lost it again as the deceased Laura Brannigan absolutely wild wild. So of course I pulled up Laura Scott Mad as as the ghost of Laura Brennan and ran again on twitter at these sports people for deciding radio joke. Okay so Pete Blackburn tweets play Gloria for the bruins play. Gloria is like the St Louis. What's right I guess? Their catchphrase and I was was telling the story about US talking about our podcast. People called and said a big thing about this song is sports song exactly. I would've never known that. No and I truthfully I I am Austin so oh sweet caroline that I know and that. Whose Song is that the red sox right so that was really sitter that Song as torture they go bye? Bye Bye every bar. No every bar saw orchard. Don't go to the summit often do that song near because it's horrendous. I don't ever WanNa hear traumatizing. The point is is that if that's the song I sports team in the city which you live. That song is a major part of your life so I understand why people were like you must know that Gloria is the song for the St Louis Blues But she signs all the tweets from Laura Branagan's account as Kathy Kathy other half entertainment. I don't know if she just like there was a mad scramble. After Laura died and she likes slanted grabbed by two thousand four. I think Oh my God I know. And she's still tweeting in two thousand nineteen because it's amazing anything on twitter at all because this is clearly a Joe. What if it's really Laura? Though Laura Ghost never died. She's going. What is this in an all of these emojis play? Gloria is not a bruins thing to say. I think. Try Again Kathy other habit. She's protecting the legacy. The saw someone else trolls her again tags her clearly getting that she's not understanding the joke. I see you're still dealing nonsense. Let me repeat I'll even say it slows that you might actually get at this time G. L. O. R. I A. is not a bruin song. It is a Saint Louis. Blues Lose Song. I hear your friend Pete Blackburn calling for you now so run along Kathy other entertainment is Kathy like from Saint Louis or she confusing really excited that Laura branding is becoming so famous again. It's true though. I think that's a big push for the song I agree that it's this. Probably a lot of people click on episode because of that so he was Blues Fan freaking hope so and just so we're clear it isn't brewing ass with the Bruins can fuck off and that. What is the ghost of Laura Brannigan says you can go to hell okay? I heard her whisper it in my sleep last night when I was prepping for this podcast the Bruins can go to hell law. Brandon's legacy okay with all that said. Should we get into the God damn saw. I can't wait to hear it. Doesn't it sound like the thing you watch before the movie starts absolutely trailer popcorns coming. They're like yeah. We're dancing being sort of fizzes more any soda and sorry. I had to cut that works so well that works so well. Well it's the best intro song. It's just absolutely if there's one thing I wanNA burst through paper to run onto the court with its fuck and Gloria and my wrong and it's gimmicky but it doesn't get old. How does that work like? It's it's weird and special and strange but it doesn't get old. I know just I'm pondering wondering now. Is this what it is. Is this what perfectly dated. Production sounds really like it. Sounds like nineteen eighty whatever. But it's not old in nineteen. Hey to this sounds extremely modern which also could be in part because we're emulating the sound. Now it's very trendy. In the same way that I'm seeing bell bottoms. On the street of Williamsburg crazy the single single street all the way to Williamsburg to see bottom literally. It's so confusing. I myself owned a quarter. I'd jacket who are we. It's true and that's why Gloria is back is it showed showed Kathy. Of course go look good word of Kathy I. It's as long as we're paying these bills now. I'm like Gloria. We gotta get her these. She getting the royalties. I don't even know I mean one would think if she's tweeting like a madwoman from this account that's not only on work but very vulnerable yourself out there like that. Cassie yes truly it it just it just just starts from the jump. Yeah the second here that like a sending everything drops and then we don't have that. We're boom boo capping. The thought that you were pointing out that sounded like Polka. Because what we don't want we don't have a year and then I mean it just setting up so perfectly I hear someone belt -taying in her ass off as isn't strong enough of a word. It's her whole insert. Entire being contestants asked with thirty s maybe and now I'm thinking like maybe the reason why I I enjoyed the Italian version better was because it felt new but the same yeah. The song is so good that I I've heard it forever since since forever but I felt like an old song and then when I heard the Italian it felt like a new twist on the song and so I it was just me extending my love of Song. Exactly you. Yeah like. How do I get more song? EXA- haven't heard yet. It's like downloading the downloadable content after you finish the video or just finding a cover of a song that you love but then the cover is like a version one of it that you're like who if I play this at a party like I'll be cool because I know this special version cooler than the episodes of Grey's anatomy that does which is also an amazing place to find songs uncovers to play at parties. Absolutely okay and then we get into. Oh my God I don a character it is. It's boring about some so good way. She things I would never shade her voice. There's no denying with Cher Cher but there is a slate character element Laura. It's always always on. The run has a little more texture older than just a belt. There's there's some like slate drunkenness. Going to someone roane like well. Maybe she's really like he knew gauging. What the character of Gloria who is a flawed wait so she this narrative we should say what she just said area? You're always on the run now running after somebody you gotta get him some. Yeah this sounds like a friend sitting her gloria down being like sweetie. We need to talk about your trap. ABC Game Love that not great right and so the singing is a character that she has created. That is almost like advising. You know. We'll telling this this person So it's not this like belt or this kind of know. where she's like takes was whistle new? No such character sock dialed. You could really act out the whole could do the whole thing I already see it. You're doing finger wag. Yeah Swirl in Orkla Room if it's a wireless mic. You're walking Florida floor. Out The bar onto the street homing in everyone in the eyes with two fingers so good okay. Now what she's just going to say hits keyboard. That's where you have that that like what you were calling the beat up the base is giving you a little bit of that just eighteen things running. She's running steadily after we're walking. We're walking I feel it in my bowl so a perfect if you are like doc exercising. You're walking outside if you're playing the song you're keeping a perfect pace. I run so much faster when I'm listening to this song. You get the subway head to the subway from your house like five minutes fast loosely. Very rarely does music have led affect on me outside of hip hop dislike. RPM would say RPM APM. Just be thank you very good if it was a car. RV Very thank you. I had I guess you would just an incredible tempo tempo yes absolutely next. What's your tempo is a play? Gloria Oreo today's episode is brought to you by everybody's favorite scheduling company. Say It with me. Q. U. T. not to be confused with a cutie but they are a little cutie y scheduling. Cute when you don't have to do it yourself you get an automated system So you never have to ask what time works for you ever again. Clients can quickly view your real time availability. 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And it feels was like a disarms the situation but perhaps there was no situation and I just made it weird a glorious playing in your head absolutely internal voice Laura links to me in my sleep. She whispers I about the bruins going to okay. Yes and the Bruins okay. And now we're hitting. I don't know totally how to qualify these sections the pre course this is the pre course. This is a b section is that was that was the verse right and then but I'm not sure what the course technically clearly. This is a very interesting structure of song. Okay play it. Here's what in the character Cherokee version. You would start to really ramp. Take a big breath by the hands absolutely instinctively did the hand gesture sweeping towards the sky. Oh good you have to Gloria part. Who can sing? Did I fool well myself into thinking I could do this. punch-up it's hard. It's a hard note I might break. My voice is might be the last episode. Can't wait I can't wait wait. What are the lyrics right there? You really don't remember. Was it something that he said. All the voices in your head calling. Gloria I fucking love this so there's also be an internal internal monologue is what we're saying so talking to Gloria. Yeah that's kind of what I feel is the case just because she it's pretty harsh on a friend This this is the only th- The negativity is really the only way. How do I say this the negativity here? I only use when talking to myself. Of course I would never talked to a friend this way. Any therapist listening singer Gary upset about what I just said. But but it's like it almost realizes itself as an internal monologue here say absolutely saying it's you know it's saying Gloria Oriented Gloria. I'm curious okay in the narrative of the song. I read so much about it that I know that this has something to do with like her trying to attract men. Yeah but failing. Yeah perhaps yeah. So she's on the run like so she's always chasing a guy but like maybe stop chasing because you're going to have a breakdown take down. Yes calm down a little bit but then in this section. She's like you don't remember. Was it something that he said. What the fuck are we talking about now? Will it's like like why she's spinning out right. It's like are you actually dwelling on something that this person said to you or you just like making up shit to make yourself. Oh my old therapist used to call that stories You know literally I think it's like anxiety baseline kind of cycle analysis stuff in the song which is why it's so genius it is and also yeah. I think that's becoming more and more common in the public. Discussion has is people being like. Oh this isn't anxiety spiral literally spiraling. We're I mean I think gets good and bad that we're making this language known enough that people can identify what's happening with them and then also maybe like on the negative side using it as a joke. This song on like takes that fought though but doesn't say it in like therapy language which is nice because you have kind of dislike two thousand nineteen like projection of like. Yes well I mean even projection. There you go therapy language. This song is baseline. Are you actually remembering something accurately or is it just something telling yourself. Oh my God. It's so beautiful. That's my new thing now. The people started telling me like I don't know what to make of what he said or whatever and I'm like well honestly isn't the real point what you think it means that story you tell yourself. Say bory America's Dr This person you really don't remember it was okay. It was it something that you said or he said or is it just the voices in your head. That is like incredible advice that you would say to someone. Okay so guys next time you're trying to relate to a friend going through a hard time John Gloria this conversation. It's so nice you will have to change the name and if you do fuck up the Jig we'll be up okay. So now we're getting into the chorus with background vocals. Oh it's just the until we get to the words the Oh it's so sad. It's devastating misstating. My God it's interesting too that the Cynthia. I don't know what I wouldn't even dare to know. What instruments going? Yeah the kind of call response. It's playing here is about to be repeated. The same section but with background vocals. Amazing very interesting. Structurally we're starting it up for the callback doc. Exactly but also. Maybe it's because it's like a building of support like it's like we're starting. She's still in her own head. And then it's GonNa haven't maybe I'm uh-huh says absolutely saddest song. So she said Gloria. Don't you think you're falling if everybody wants you. Why isn't anybody calling my God so texting and give the same exact advice this has to be internal monologue now? It one hundred percents no world in which my friend is like having downtime. Downtime keep going after these guys who don't like me and I'm like yeah maybe it's you maybe you know. For right it's it's very harsh reserves fraternal me. It's very harsh. Those are conversations had behind closed doors. I mean my mouth it happened in my head very very harsh. And it's very like you're putting yourself out there in this like fake way or something. No one is connecting with you beyond and also like. Don't delude yourself into thinking everyone wants you. Obviously no no one does. Oh my God. It's so bleak. Have you really met anybody. Who's lonely and alone because to confident? I don't find like that ever happened in my life. I personally haven't but it's definitely a thing I feel like but doesn't that usually isn't that effective kind of like the you know you're at the center. Turn your your in a party. But you're alone or something you surround yourself with people who can't get like deep with you or something or you'll never get deeper than just like surface service level but those people leave the party under like everybody wants me. Yeah I talking about. LA VERSUS NEW YORK. This is like this is what New York people I think. La is like. Oh like. I mean I think that it works in La. Though I get the phone calls. Yeah I think I know who's like everybody wants to fuck me. It's honestly annoying. They do fuck or at least they have the opportunity. Anybody calling them for like a meaningful relationship. Honestly people that subscribe to that level of Vapid fo confidence. Don't want meeting ships anyway. There's fake it till you may get them. There's Gloria like those are two legside same coin quote of the episode. I mean there's fake until you make ticket and then there's Gloria like it's true like she. She's faking it but she's not making it or maybe she's making it but not in the way that she wants. I think I'm I think I'm making And not faking it and I do think you need to do both sometimes like I think. Sometimes there's there's a unattractive or scary level of honesty. You might bring to a conversation that people are like yeah. Don't WanNa talk that terribly in this moment. Thank you though so you know. I do think there is some Kudos to be given to faking but I get the idea of like being in the center of a room surrounded by people and feeling alone yes and like going back to your apartment that you live alone own and like you know whatever that is what this song I think is trying to get out for Persson. This is the spiral after the party. Yeah Glorious Wild like she's a wild person obviously fun and he wouldn't even Gloria Breezy. She's Fun Gloria Estefan. Gloria Gainer Gloria the writer. Whose last name? I'm totally spacing on the feminist writer. Oh Gloria help help Steinem Steinem. I don't know if she falls in this Janet wild I read her memoir cheese crazy man. Steinem Rica thank you for that by the way Rica Rica. If you're going to be this. Is I episode taping at the head Gump studio. And if you're GONNA be a room you're going to rea- Steinem you fucking idiot. Listen I just moved here okay. I've read three bucks in my life. I'm working on it. Just moving here means you don't know Gloria Steinem is honestly great except the thing is I do. I've read like three of her books. I got her lawyer. allred the lawyer that everyone. Hey Tori fucking sane. Our point is being proven yes all the glorious probably is the Gloria and Gloria Gloria Umberto toes version was probably wild. Even though she didn't exist in this probably a Alex Christ. Yeah Oh Jesus. He Learned Wild Wild One. I can't even talk if there's one agitate tip use. This grabbed wild why it's true. It's true what else is there to say crazy. Not Electric Guitar is just like I'm here now. Golf Goodbye back so where what did you don't have to answer. You don't have to answer. Leave him hanging on the line. Which is interesting because I thought nobody was calling? So here's the thing I think. Now we're speaking more or just like. Hey what's the hottest thing you can do. Oh yes he saying. Play together at the boys say. Don't give yourself herself so freely. I think there's actually it's not even about fake it till you make it. It's don't give of yourself so freely down to learn for yourself. This is perfect visit. Perfect timing it's great actually. It's great advice. I was just watching twentieth century. Women have you seen it. Do we know it a million times and Greta gerwig character at one. Point gives the young boy. Boy Who's not tomatoes. Shallow May but absolutely seems like that was a miss cash or should have could have been. She didn't know him yet no she didn't she didn't make that movie. But Mike Mills should have right correct. She did she just in it. She just an actor in that movie amazing but in any case she's teaching him. She's just moved back to Santa Cruz from New York. She's teaching the young boy how to attract women how to be Cool Huh a- and the only advice is Silas and it is haunted me ever since we're watching it because like for me it's not physically possible. No I don't see my saying less. Yes I mentioned we both have podcast. Huge probably early physically have been talking for over an hour or two times a week. Perform I still cannot say less no because if I feel anxious at a party already you're just like I. I have this horrible problem. where an honest the people around me love it but for me? It's a problem. I feel like I have the gift of Gab. I can make a conversation move easily between people. I don't know well I I know how to ask questions. Get people going so it is my duty with this skillset right at this party. Yes to employ it and so I feel like running around like just fucking Ping Pong and helping people people talk making me look like an asshole. So they can bond over that right and so then you're just like oh wait. No one likes me. I was just. It's like being the straight man. Why isn't anybody calling truly genuinely like you know when you look at it? Like let's say veep yes. I WANNA be Walsh's character you know what I mean. There's little love for the straight man and I think in party situations if I just fuck in I will war a little more black short. Yeah welcome to New York figured out how to do my hair actually okay. Maybe starring wish we're a hat. I've become a hat girl that's fine. It's winter and talk less. Hat's fine and talk less. That's the part that's not gonNA happen. Yeah I'll shave my head. I'M NOT GONNA sell talking around. The hair is not an issue. It's the talking If we can make the issue the hair I manage that. Yeah no I have the same. I think I have the same issue the same borderline issue. It's like most women. That comedy don't seem cool women in comedy. Yes that's why we're either just like Weirdos with normal jobs. Everyone's like what's wrong with them or pursue some kind of entertainment which makes us like context. The the attraction is to like have the conversation but it's like not normal every free time exactly and then outside of context. We don't make any. This song is therapeutic beyond my wildest hope anyone listening from that remotely relatable otherwise. They're just like I don't I'm normal and cool and this is bored right. I'm perfectly stable and find like the song means nothing to me except it's banks. I don't need to hear the lyrics already. Know what banks must be nice for. You is what what I'm saying Kuria okay. So now we get to the same section again yes but now there's some voices in the head chiming in to reaffirm the horrible narrative. You're spinning about yourself. Self here we go. Can we talk about her screaming. Oh my God. Just the way that she's Elliot's is so good. Can you see this. It's so good. It's so good. It's I the sharpness of her voice. That's the thing it's such a choice. Yeah you could have a million technically proficient singers saying this but what would they sing it with the same fucking attitude now. Can you think of a singer like Laura Brannigan. May she rest in peace. Who would who would cover this with the same? Like kind of like sharp like without not just a belt like a really good sharp thoughtful. I can't even think of someone who has wow L- and the screen screech. WHO's like a like a rocker or something? Like somebody say I. It's hard for me to think of any white female artist. Good Point. Yeah but I think it's possible for sure it's just such a bad ass choice. I also hear her like shaking her head side to side while she doesn't like stumping so good. It's so good. It's a little concern for her throat but she seems like she knows what she's doing. I mean you. It's a sacrifice you have to make you know just just for Gloria. It's worth it. Just go nuts. What did she say? They know the alias. You've been living under right. I think they got your number on my God which is ironic because they never called her. Get it. That's the point amazing alias. You've been living under so she's reaffirming. They have every way of reaching out to you. They know everything about you. They know that you're faking. It see this is the first time I have the context of the rest of the song. Yeah because this is the only part I hear the lyrics to and I'm casually listening and this whole time. I've been like this woman's being stalked and this isn't funny any no and then you're like oh wait. It's actually not like actually she's just a loser. Yeah Yeah I think they have the alias that you've been living under which is like Gloria is not ought who she seems she's project she's also projecting they really have her number. She is a double entendre Harris. Everyone she's a fucking faker so sad uh-huh like me instantly during this like me apply myself. It's just not true. I think anyone who would listen to song to be like here. Parts themselves in it. It's like a universal self which part of Gloria delayed which part like. What do you think you're like a faker? Do you think you're not authentic. Do you think like he throwing herself. Do you think that like you're giving too much of yourself. Language play hard to get. It's such a crazy song. That's such a like succinct beautiful pop song to have so much like depth lexi. Yeah also to be a rewrite of what seems like a very shallow shallow Italian version of a girl. She so her leaves me. I'm GonNa Kiss her mouth. You'll find her now. We're GONNA get the second half of this. I don't know chorus repeat. Okay okay. Yes thank God she could be singing. She's letting it breathe the base but doesn't like what what is that. That's the repeat in the beginning of the thing that led us into the song that that thing I wish I knew more about electronic noise. It's definitely a very cool effect like I don't know Flange Lander I'm just going to say it's just a a setting on a it must just be like I have no idea. It's definitely a stint thing. Yeah it's a sin thing whether whether it's a single Keno. Nothing press or if they had to revert no they couldn't have been reversing the tape. So yeah maybe they're playing a really llegado. Oh since all the way up the keyboard I have. That's new to this version of the song that was an IT Italia rate should say PA. I have that's right I have no idea. Yeah okay what did they because it does sound very similar but there are moments that you pointed out like how the Italian sounds more like Polka Apple Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah and. This does not have that now. I think putting that I'm like a nice fretless bass sound was a good. You're cutting down the like of a bit all ou PAS. Yes we know music on this podcast. Thank you for listening. Okay do after that. We just went into space. The doors Eh. That was lying. There were thinking off Yup a sequin covered alien waiting for US dancing so fucking good so in this like glorious going insane. Let's just like Sushi's nuts destroying her apartment. She has snagging vinyl. She's breaking a guitar she just what else do they have in the seventies eighties. She hairspray hairspray by a part of the movie. were the female heroine. Just like destroys the smashes all the plates farting beyond say way amazing. The neighbors are like But she's like no one likes me but I'm great version. Yes yes yes okay. Now verse to The harmony another voice on Monday nine. Oh my thank God. They're taunting her. These lyrics are fucking. They're taunting her. These voices speak the singer ability of these words in credit. I have to give them such major credit. Amazing really right. Yeah every word you want to log to main line. What does that I never would think to refer to someone? Not a rebound them as lay line. I think they maybe ABI reverse. They're like we WANNA say the rebound but like what's the opposite of rebound main line. That's insane but it's like a call on hold with right lane line the main line nine right. It's so genius even is it but I think that this is taunting this. I think this like oh absolutely have a second second voice. She's got like a harmonize iser in her with her. Like another one and they're like oh like how's it going to go down like how are you going to date the next one will you like will you. Will you meet him normally would be like fuck in divorce. Say with four kids you idiot and also wait. Mainline on top of the phone thing is like a fish on a lot right on a line. WHOA so she's being like what are you gonNA real him? Yeah like I feel that it absolutely. Yeah Yeah you're GONNA get some old saga who exactly that episode of Sex. You're so pathetic. Like what like what's next for you. What are you gonNa find the next idiot? Well she goes right now so me album then then and all my God just cruelty cruelty here. It's Ooh what she said. Hey she's just like oh what are you going to do next like what other meaningless fling will you encounter next in your life but the thing is twenty nineteen my level of feminism. Coming to this. I'm like Hell Yeah Right. Well I think it's like there is a way to read this that it's not depressing. I I respect that the ownership of it. Take Your Pick Gloria but to me the setup is not headed sat already so now I'm ready ready made it seems sad at the positive version is like trap Aman for his money. You don't even like him but come on the after with whatever. No I think. That's a different person. Take a lover in the afternoon. Yeah so you're going to marry some Oh city or are you just GonNa like fuck some Hawkeye afternoon delight. which by the way is that? What your favorite line of the take a lover in the afternoon? That's truly like a seventies like we're still like we're still referring back to songs from making lover and also sex. During daytime feels explicitly silly seventies eighties cost as how did they have the time. What was their schedules? Do they have podcast to podcast in the seventies it just no one could ever hear it. Incredible incredible radio. Yeah exactly. It was called Radio for your innocence. Slipping away don't believe it's coming back soon. That's that's what makes it negative. Do you know what I mean. That's actually like the confirmation that it's not are we to read that she said you have sex with too. Many people. Unknown wants to fuck you because I read that earlier on makes me so it's a little. It's a little chain here at. Yeah wait. I'm sorry is the years sixteen forty two do we live as gives me -Chusetts under our own go bruins. We that keeps coming back. Fast copy should be tweeting about Cathy's not sets doc sex positive though. How do you maintain your voice like yours? You scream a lot for the yeah. I don't okay just wondering I plan plan on dying young so my voice will be gone being a nice rasp and all and when I get older I'll say oh it was. I did podcasting in the in the in the arts thing is the RASP is really the SE les voices truly. It's like Salas not every time I speak that I'm saying the opposite of what you're saying. Oh I'm saying you WANNA seem cool voice wise I have the RASP. Yes cable. It's I'm developing it. Palaces are growing on my vocal cords as we instantly. I mean when you think of voices that you think are cool who jumps twin Scarlett Johansson. Oh Yeah you're right. You're right morass the better credible okay. Great so this career is really giving me more than just absolutely Adrian followers fourth in my effort to play hard to get and make everyone fall in love with me. I'm going to be talking like this can't even fake. It just keeps screaming. It's going to develop your injury. Yeah all right perfect and now we're going I don't know I don't know what to call this. The section we skipped. Do we skip the fucking looking pre course this time. Let's find out us again. Yeah but same Sam Lyrics House Jaclyn the same except I think the synthesis of being here she might be extending the life. Wow Wow wow. It's like every one it's very like like a when the com- reveals there's like a forest in your bedroom Aso's very late it's very like it's like a trope that you would. You've seen five hundred as of summer. Where all Oh my unseen? Two holidays a total trope. Absolutely I also feel like singing. The Gloria into this is the way I want to enter rooms from now on. I want to kick door so hard. It breaks the middle nosedive through it somersault in like Mary. What's what's her face at played? Peter Pan Mary Louise Mary whatever yes. I know. You're talking about the short hair. Yes incredible amazing. That's Mary Harney. Barry Word Okay. Yes second dressed like Mary. Martin Peter Pan Absolute Cami thing. We have talked. Wow this is my therapy. This episode have come full circle on this idea. It's trying to walk and talk lesson be cool. You'll feeder fan way as you much all the time and south so that girls here who dresses like Mary. Martin and Peter Pan and bring with just her is just what she does pays. Whoever has the Hawks scored to be fair dressing like Mary? Martin Peter Pan in this city in Brooklyn look and people would love it and people be like. That's hot and I love. It is going to make me cool. What you're saying? Yes the opposite of what's cool. I will be cool. Yes amazing. Yeah Oh we got Lindsay. What are you the session? I mean incredible no relates. It's on me you really are rising. You know okay and this is the I'm calling post-course section. I just still course. Yeah Oh then they should like sailing away sailing away off to the off to up to your therapist office. Truly truly like I gotta go. I'm going to therapy experiences ecstatic. This is wait. Isn't that piece. You're hurting happier. But I mean truly as like band of gold here like we're talking like the most depressing lyrics happiest this music just love to circle back to the idea of playing this while going into therapy sailing right into the right through the door. What what a weird way to start a session but now I want to try? It's so good lake at home if anyone is lucky enough and can afford therapy can can you fucking try listening to this as you enter the recession. See how it feels how it changes. It changes the session. We're as you leave. No no no you need to come in with this energy. Absolutely you're gonNA leave with a different energy. Hopefully well if you need a pick me up obviously try it but we all know that formula. I'm curious to hear the take on the formula at least my formula which is so. How'd have you been? How are you going I don't know what did we talk last week Like I want to see if I listen to this friend. You're going to have a full smash that motherfucking. They're fucking door. And maybe that's why like the Italian version. You can listen to it and disassociate from the lyrics that come with the main like. I'm not thinking about like people not calling me back because in Italian Leeann it's like yeah it's just the actually the cop out version of the Laura Brannigan I think though pussies head to listen to the production slaps harder in the lower branding. I think so too. I think we're listening to it and really thinking about it. Granted they had three years of since technology data and just like the fact that the eighties really infused the song with the spirit needed. Okay okay. Here's the last chunk of the song if you're not thoroughly depressed you won't be a now. Oh my God Morris left the chats. Oh she's she took her valley of minutes ago. She's slowly slipping away. She's breathe for five into caper bag back. This little melody I say ecstatically talking about depression is like very modern. This doing this. This last part is very. It's it's like it's like is phrase clinkers. Ain't Julia here this bird. So maybe okay. I've heard rumors US slow. Fade Oh no no. I've heard rumors of this thing. Where your self talk actually helps you and I'm wondering if this is an example of that where it's like? I had to have an honest look in the mirror. Yeah and then I came up the other side. and that's like the horns to be like the praise. Oh Ooh like you've arrived maybe or perhaps it is just in the original Italian version since that is maybe about. But maybe this is the part that's like the tribute back to the original. The the reference back to the original. I'M GONNA look into it as a narrative contributor I like it I like yours like it comes out positive like at the end. It's like it. It's a happy happy scolding Gloria Gloria. You're fucking your Goddamn REC. Need Shit together. Yeah hard to get buck and take a break. And then she was like Oh okay and she's like you're what you're so right. You're so right man she. She walks out the door. Opens opens the door to her apartment and the chorus in their singing and she sinks. She shuts the door behind her and they continue to sing and the trumpets. Come in if there's one thing I want in this life it's to feel like when I leave room. People aren't continuing to talk about me. Positively not only that singing about me. The moral of this episode glorious slaps and be Nice to yourself and your friends. Yeah then tell them out loud yes honestly yes. It makes a big difference right. I think so I was like hey. Okay violate your shirt fucking rock. Thank you so much to strangers. Thank your own Mike at the store. I love doing that when you see somebody who your shirt exactly love you love that. Love the hat and like worst case scenario thanks and they suck but like I didn't hurt me I don't WanNa have you ever been like that when someone says something like you go from here I. It's on sale or if remotely attractive. I'm like me too or just triple over everything I own. Leave that to tripped on my own tongue. I Dunno it's possible. Little rolls out like a cartoon loved like a red carpet. Dick just rolled out like a red carpet. Dick shot out the ludicrous episode episode of this. podcast I listen to that and everybody. I know I think sometimes doing this. So listen to every episode and you haven't listened to a good amount of episodes out thank you. I really like you're doing it for me right now. I mean truly think like I really like this podcast. Thank you so much welcome I want to ask you now. What did you punch it up? And if so how the thing about this new format of you asking like if I want you to punch up of course I want you to punch it of course no i WanNa hear your version like I want to hear you sing it. I think this but I do kind of think the song as I think Demi was right after. We just did this. It's like I thought it was on punishable before but maybe like we'd find a thing to make it but now I'm like this is a perfect song. Okay here's a question. I think I know what I would do to the song. Yeah I'll just say it on. Yeah Fuck you're about to hear it anyway. Yeah I it would take a literal translation of the lyrics and just read you that version and do it better than the first I mean. I think if you did the Italian lyrics the thing is this is not a punch up at all this punch. What you could do is and you can't do this because you don't speak Italian but do the English lyrics back into a talent and give the Italian version? That's eight deserve. Mario I want you the do. Is Google translate these lyrics into Italian. Change it tomorrow and then give it to Italy and be like you deserve this. Oh my God you're making so much says the Italian however I am fully committed to offending Italians and then I could sing it potentially Umberto's key which would certainly be lenny's move. They'll be incredible to hear that about five minutes. Thank you so much. I cannot wait to hear that in five minutes. I'm realizing the flow of the podcasters. Scott taken away for me. So we're going to cut back into the she going to ask me. I've such a good one. Okay what's your punches. Yeah okay so for all my affair heads out there. One of the worst shows on television just ended this past week. It's called the affair. Okay have you heard of this show. I have heard the name. It's on showtime it's complete garbage. The season season woman's iconic and then it went fully downhill down the longest. Hell you could ever imagine it just ended and I've watched it forever and what's amazing about. This show is that it's always had one of the best theme songs it's this field apple song that she wrote specifically for this show Fiona yes. She doesn't do anything. She writes a song for this terrible show. It's incredible so so in the show. That's not the song that I'm actually referring to. But in the show they end on this wedding and one of the things that the wedding. Is this dance that the that this Shitty asshole father choreographed. Spur his daughter and the dance to the song. The whole of the moon by the waterboy which is a fucking banger. The show ends with the main character like aged fifty years. Here's so he's like a fake old man almost like those six flag got six flags and he walks up mountain me looks at the C.. And then it plays a Fiona apple cover of the whole of the moon. That is not one of the Best I've ever heard of my life. You saw the whole You in tune with a win that your use you stretch it stars too so I thought it'd be appropriate a cover so I don't know if you've heard it yet abuse play it absolutely. It's on Youtube. And then the but then but then we could just say the original the water boys original which is a song that has like apparently inspired by I prince have you. Do you know that it's like do i. Don't print see right over. He wrote like a prince knockoff. Kind of and the lyrics are just like talk. Kind of like Gloria just fully amazing. I'm so excited. Listen to the great thank you so you are so welcome. I of course wanted to do for my in Punchbowl Jam. The fellow Italian disco. I'm pretty sure at the time does go Ryan Paris's Dolce Vita have already put it on this planet early so I'm now going to a different song that I feel like Synth wise is in the same fan and that is all through the night by Cyndi lauper off on the versus sleep hard but then when we wake up for the Chorus Holy Shit Have Iowa incredible song also a song I I or maybe heard later. That came back to me in a film. This movie with Juliette Lewis. Have you seen seen this movie. Oh what do you like makes friends slash like flirts with a hunk in a wheelchair at. It's Kinda all about it's like she's like a mom who's depressed because her husband hates her and all this shit and she meets his a young kid and they like kind of have a horny moment joy and they dance through they dance to all through fast. That's perfect incredible. I Love Juliette Lewis. Not only because what's eating Gilbert grape. Obviously but also. I met her to party one time where I I was so dumb. I'm only Thomas because it's embarrassing. Yeah funny I went to like a cool Hollywood good party before I really had before you do there. But I didn't know the status quo yet and it was a birthday party for what did I say I hope for her at some Hollywood percent and so of course I was like. Oh it's their birthday. I should bring something not something you do to Hollywood parties at all. What did they bring? You guessed it cup cakes. That's funny instantly walked in good. Oh this is the wrong vibe shoves the cupcakes in this Bush catered food and bartenders. Like although I kinda did of course I was like Oh fuck my life stuck them in a corner. Yeah and then who walks up Juliette Lewis and she's he's like oh cool and just grabs a and I was like. Oh my god Julia's eating cooking. And then she looks at me and she's like did you make these and I was like. Yeah the fucking phenomenal and I was like thanks and then we just had like fifteen minutes. The nicest celebrity interaction ever heard. She's an angel she she not only did. Make me feel weird about bringing cupcakes to a cool Hollywood party but she ate one and then just time you could bus and you know and speaking of Cindy lauper. It'd be a great person to cover glorious Cindy Lauper same tone oh my rate. I don't know if she could sing. It is a high right but that but think about her cool high notes back then that she could hit raspy like lower absolutely. Do you have a dream gusts. Thank you for having me on. This was genuinely blast. I got to work through something I know I feel like eh better really. I didn't even have therapy today. And like I just feel like I thought a lot about my inner self I feel like listening to Gloria better truly within listening Loria and breaking ended up and Jessica Chunks and having great conversation between and also knowing a song as good and then like really realizing why it's so good is a true absolutely revelation. What do you want to promote? Shoutout out anything. We'll like my podcast case. They don't have a podcast. It's called who weekly. It's very different from this podcast. But I would say it's equally good for your your body mind and soul. It's like celebrity gossip but not really essentially like to fully take your mind off garbage like this is where you would go. It's everything you you need to know about the celebrities. You don't meaning you don't know them or you don't need to know it's purely fun bullshit. It's like you listen to it and it floats in one ear and fully out the other and you've had like a full whole bunch of laughs and your leg compressing. Yeah so maybe you'll like it. If you

Gloria Oriented Gloria Laura Brannigan Gloria Laura Gloria Bell bruins Gloria Steinem Kathy Kathy hockey twitter Gloria Estefan US Laura Brandon Brandon Tony Tiffany Julian Morrow Gloria Oreo Europe Martin Peter Pan writer Gloria Gloria Umberto
 Big Little Lies | Season 2 Episode 2 Recap, "Tell Tale Hearts"

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00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Big Little Lies | Season 2 Episode 2 Recap, "Tell Tale Hearts"

"Big little lies season. Two episode to tell tale hearts is over. But we are just getting started here on Poche show recap everybody I am. Gosh, I am joined here by my lovely co host, who is always revealing way too much from my private phone calls, Emily FOX, Emily. How are you doing? I don't think you've taken a phone calls for me to reveal anything about you not to thi this up for you. I did take some highly sensitive phone calls yesterday that you were privy to. That's true, but the details of which we will not share on this podcast. At least I hope. But sometimes it's hard to know what kind of information I can trust you with them. Louis I'm really secret. Caper know what you are is someone who receives a lot of secrets. But the keeper of secrets some, some debate in my mind, I think I've kept the most important secrets. Okay. I wouldn't know because you've kept them so tightly. That's true. But a lot of the sensitive mature. Aerial that I tell you sometimes they'll just like straight up. Tell other people no. They were just gonna have to agree to disagree on that list. And you're my husband and I'm supposed to be able to tell you, these things that we can work it out together. All my gosh, there's a lot of problems. The world of big little lies right now. Which we will get into obviously, if you have not yet seen episode to seize listening to them shouldn't be listening to this unless it's a mistake, and if it's an accident that you're here, then last ditch effort hit. Pause. Get outta here. Go away where we're talking about a lot of things that happened in this episode here are the headlines Madeline and egghead. No more at least for now. Yeah, yeah. That's sort of a temporary break-up a forever break up. We just don't know. We are done. Are we are done? I'm pretty final unthinking. We're done. It's like the big little lies version of John wit. I wish everyone could see the fact that you're putting your hands on your hands are on. My head says, say, I believe we are done. I'm thinking, we're done wonderful posture. Even though we're just getting sarted ways favorite thing if you remember from the sharp objects. All right. So so Madeline and Ed broken up for now. Everybody also in Monterey. Now knows that Perry is ziggys father and the game. Toll-free buddy about just like the important people. The most important, the most important people to know maybe would be the police doesn't seem like the police towards finding that. All right. We're working towards that. It seems like but the but the jig is up the zig is up people know that Kerry is father, the boys know it, Mary Louise knows this, and all this information comes out in very terrible fashion. So that's a that's a big to do. We're meeting Bonnie's. Mommy Elizabeth Howard, played by crystal FOX. I am mmediately. It was like, oh, so she's mazing FOX Emily you do. You're very happy, anytime you meet another FOX. I am. I am your little territorial over the name Emily, then you are FOX when you grew up in the eighties and the nineties every other little girl was named Emily been on the top ten name list for the last thirty five years, basically. Right. And so you're it's like an attack on your individuality being Emily f-. Yeah. Forever was super annoying, because there is always Emily's Emily's. Like the fact that even in grad school my. I final class didn't have another, Emily, and I was like, yes school. All right. Well, we, we meet Chris crystal FOX, as Elizabeth not Emily Howard not round Howard. She is entered the picture. And she has brought props there are some. I don't know if it's property comedy feather prop comedy, but they're not so much props in the midst here. We will talk about that because I have questions, I'm sure other people have questions, I don't know if we've got answers, but we will try not as husband, Gordon. He's a punk. He's in jail or or he's been arrested. He's currently not in jail, but he has been arrested and it's not going well in the Klein household. No not. I was my spirit animal in this episode, what that says about me, but I was I don't know what it says about me a little scary. I will not not be rich. Yes. That's right. So this is the major headlines. There's a bunch of Mary. Louise shenanigans going on Meryl Streep and the teeth are out in full force here in episode two. He really revealed the fangs sheep, did the fangs or out in two of big little lies. We'll get into all of those stories in specific detail in just a couple of moments. Just some some business right at the top of the podcast here on wig little lies. We really got to embrace that I know that's the hash tag, that people are using service advisory. So first of all this podcast coming to you a little bit later than, than we typically like to record these on Mondays of circumstances. Have pushed us to having to record episode to recap on Tuesday afternoon. So this is getting into your podcast feeds a little bit later than we'd like that's going to be the case for the next couple of episodes, as well as Emily, and I are going to be on the road. Hopefully driving a little more safely than we saw the driving occur in this episode. Hopefully I'm not getting kicked out of the car it any point, you do tend to be the driver, very practical Subaru, not a tesla. Yes. There's that. Okay. So, so, so we and our Subaru, we will be on the road for the next week or so. So are. Owed three recap. We'll certainly becoming to you a little bit later, episode four podcast, probably coming to a little bit later. Look for those the following Wednesday's is what we are thinking. The episode three recap also may come of an audio quality that is a little, I wouldn't say subpar, but certainly different from what you're hearing right now as we will be recording from the road. So just prepare your ears for that eventuality. You have been warned of the potential, odd audio quality, you really know how to sell this. I'm just giving people that listen. We just had a very traumatic podcast audio on my end. And I just I'm never never gonna personally feel like I can lift. So just plenty of advance notice about all of that. All right. Like deep breaths, taken fresh air. I'm like a long walk. Yeah. A hike over for a little hike. You love to do of hiking. Everybody knows this about me. It's very, very known fact about about yours. Truly your billion sweaters, just walk in. Indeed. All right. We would also love it. If you subscribe to this podcast, if you have not done, so already post show recaps, calm. I tunes or wherever you subscribe to your podcast. We are working on getting Poche. Oh, recaps dot com slash big little lies up and running so that you can just subscribe to our big little lies coverage. But at least you can subscribe to the main feed right now. Lots of fun stuff happening on Poche recaps in addition to the big little lies, we also have the throne chairs the final game of thrones podcast coming your way this week, Emily. I'm almost done real with game of thrones. Am so excited very excited very time and the throne itself, I'm very excited for because it's going to be a hysterical podcast. I've gotten a little bit of a sneak preview based on the organizational processes that are occurring behind the scenes. Going to be a fun show. Awesome. I'm very excited about it. Some strange things happening on the podcast, distant future. So you may want to keep an ear out for some stranger things that might occur that feels like feels like it was a little on the nose at a little bit on the nose. So just I don't know. Just. Check into the postal. Recaps who knows. What's coming your way? There could be some stuff that some some weird stuff. Well, some weird weird stuff will happen in the not too distant future here on push recap. So subscribe to the show, we've got a lot of fun stuff coming your way feedback. We also love getting your feedback for this podcast and other pipe casper show. Recaps dot com slash feedback. You can always hit us up on Twitter as well, as at Emmett like an omelet with an e I think I said, I'm lit, well this time if you'll get about about that I am at round Howard like Elizabeth Howard, but rounder and not Bonnie's mother or father. That's the business of run. It's a back the party in the back. You know, it's funny, I was just recording a podcast that people will not here for another couple of weeks recently. And we've made that exact joke. We talked about the mall. It wasn't you weren't. There weren't there. So at some point in the future, be prepared for another, another mullet, gag in the show, and we won't be able to reference to this moment at all because it's already been done. But you will know having heard this podcast. All right. We talked about the headlines that gave them like very, very quickly. This is a packed episode of big little lies. Like, I don't know how much longer it was then episode one it was still under an hour. I think it was definitely under an hour. I don't know by by how much I think that the, we watched on HBO clocked in at like fifty ish minutes. So the first episode of the season was a roughly around forty forty three or so. I think that this was closer to fifty minutes, it definitely felt longer not just because of the real time. But also because soul much happened. We gave that quick, snapshot of everything. But, like, what we talked about before, Madeleine and Ed have broken up everybody knows that Perry is father, or most people know that Perisic he's father. We've met Bonnie's mother at this point. Rhonda's husband has been arrested Mary Louise talking about going to the police Celeste crashed car, we, there's, there's so much stuff that happened in this episode that feels like the type of events that would occur like in a finale or like deep into a season. So the big little lies is off to the races early on would be an understatement. Well, what we're really watching is this nap shot if everyone's lives coming out right every single thing that happened was very dramatic. But also hinged upon a lie. Yeah. No. I think that we're seeing I we've talked before on the podcast about how a lot of this season seems like it's going to be kind of the explosion of the lie. But there are still those little lies that were that were being kept in the first season that didn't have resolution. I think one of the bigger ones was madeleine's infidelity, the affair that she had behind ED's back with, with Isaac Mendez of heroes fame of Joseph. Not the amazing technicolor Dreamcoat variety, the stage, director, the avenue, Q director, and at that has exploded out that is now out in the universe, Ed now knows, and he has learned the information in terrible fashion. Right. And I think he was also sort of thrown off by the fact that he learns ziggys paternity earlier on in the episode is like, oh my gosh, you're lying to me about that, too, like what's going on? So I think a lot is uncovered in their relationship, and obviously the final nail in the coffin is him finding out about madeleine's infidelity. Yeah. So that was that was very intense like I don't really even even know where to start with I think we'll do this the same way that we've done already the way that we did it last week as we kinda talked about a character by character. I think we'll try and do that this week so much, though the stories are already weaving in and out of each other's lives. And it's just hard to know what is the headline from from this week. So I think that the episode does. End on Madeline ED's up. So maybe let's begin there and it does it does end with us hearing Adam Scott's fake singer voice. Just what all of us needed to hear. Once again, a lot of music callback already to the first season. Like I think we talked about last week about how this feels like we're on the other side like we're through the looking glass on the other side of the mirror. I wonder if big little lies will be able to sustain itself passed a second season because I think already structurally is second season is being constructed to kind of be like an answer to season. One kind of feel that way. Hopefully totally. Yeah. Just like feels like we're really connecting threads back to that, that first season, and it seems like it's, it's sort of following the of how corrosive lies can be right. Yeah. Especially with the preview the rest of the season where they're talking about how, like not everybody makes it out. Yeah, no, my God. We'll see. We'll see what that possibly means for the for the the leaf Audi of the season. We're gonna lose some characters along the way as somebody else going to go the way of ace scars. We'll find out at the very least for now Ed and madeleine's relationship on the rocks, getting pounded. By the ocean. It's not going. What were you surprised by this? I mean of all the surprises in this episode of all the developments, where does this one rank for you? I mean, this was one of the dropping moments of the episode, where I was like, oh, no. Because it's too much had already happened because it's towards the end when it happens, like Ed had already been burned by Madeleine lie. Right. And so for like the really big one to come out with just a couple minutes later was like Abigail too. Yeah. That's tough like we weren't talking. And like she she said at the way that she said end. Like you said it wasn't home. Yeah. First of all, your house is too big. Yeah. Ever ever think that you're alone. Yeah. That's just like the standard operating procedure. Just always assume somebody is in the house. Somebody's in home turns to work from home. He does work from home. He does work from home. So should be a safe assumption that he is always home. They'll have your conversations near the beach. Yeah. Or don't cheat on it also be an option or at the very least maybe, maybe tell him like closer to the moment that you were gonna tell him back and season one it did feel like in the first season in the finale, so many things happened that it Madel felt like she was on the cusp of telling like she couldn't keep the lion anymore. She was drinking so much at the charity event at the karaoke event that she was about to say. And then everything that happened with Perry happened, and she now had this new lie that she could kind of, like, you know, like lean into and that could be sort of like an organizing tool of how to safely protect herself from having to, to say anything. Two. Now at least six months, a little bit longer perhaps have passed since then. And so that means it's been two years, or so, since the affair Madeleine has told Ed or Madeleine had told her daughter rather had told Abigail had not told Ed, the fact that she had told Abigail, I thought the saddest part of the confrontation between Madeline and Ed was when they're in the bedroom, and says, does Chloe? No. And it's like, well, of course, she doesn't know is kind of answer. But it's like how can you be social can you? How can you be? So sure if she's already, like kind of, like blown up the Ziggy thing from earlier in the episode, but also like the way that I had read that beyond that was was being you already told Abigail you told one of your daughters, who how can I say, like it's a ridiculous thing to ask. If you've told our other daughter, right, just like sort of like the level violation that he's going in that, and I'm sure he's probably starting to figure out, okay? That's why Joseph's wife was acting so strange at the grocery store. Or in the first episode, you know, I think he was probably suspect a little bit of, like why people were tiptoeing around him. So, yeah. I think it's probably bring a lot into clarity bummer. Huge. They love Adam Scott. Well, listen. I don't think that we're not gonna see I'm Scott on the show moving forward. You know now, if anything to see him so sad, if anything I think, like we may be on the cusp of like an Ed in Nathan bromance, I think those two are they're gonna, they're going to bond over the fact that they've both been burned, low, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're very different way. We're skipping ahead. A little been skipping around. But like I mean, in the Nathan storyline, it seems like hey and Bonnie way to even give him storyline. He he's not deserving. And Bonnie have a moment where it seems like there's some level of reconciliation even though Bonnie still not really ready to talk about what she's going through right? But, but Nathan has certainly been on the other side of marriage to Madeleine is going to come to him for any kind of comfort or as Nathan gonna try and provide any kind of comfort. Or is this going to be the kind of thing? Where is pushed to a point where like, now, I've got nothing to lose and he actually takes Nathan up on the offer to have a fight, who the heck those or that's going on. But there's a lot of possibilities for, for where we're going to go with at next. Not the least of which is that, like he and Madeline are going to repair this relatively soon is not entirely impossible. It seems like a lot of ED's life. Is this family? It is a huge part of his life. It is life. So how this is going to resolve. I don't have. I don't have a great read on it. What's your prediction? I don't know. I think that they might actually be done done done. Yeah. Because reconciliation feels to easy in this landscape. You know what I mean? But I think like considering what he could find out. I also had to protect myself about reconciliations for divorces ever since I watched MRs Doubtfire. I really thought they were gonna get back together. It was really scarring really for me. I've bawled at the end of MRs Doubtfire, and my mom was like, what, what happened didn't get back Bush, this such as this is like a run by fruiting occurred on this. It was a drive-by, fruit drive-by rooting either way. I mean, it's a bit of a surprise to bring MRs Doubtfire into the equation here in this capacity just telling you that I need to protect my heart and my heart says that I want them to reconcile. But like don't be social now. It's gonna be thinking that maybe Mary Louise, somebody undercover and the fake teeth should have been the tell that we're gonna get a series dead. Brother Raymond, we're gonna get seen late in the season in Mary. Louise going to take the teeth out and take the wig off, and she's just like somebody totally different. She's just like by Meryl Streep. So obviously, obviously, obviously, it's just it's just Meryl Streep undercover. So so who knows what's going to happen there? All right. So you're going to say that Madeline at are going to remain broken up. That's yeah. I think. I think that's supposed to be ill astray of like what lies can do to you. Yeah. I will take the opposite. Prediction just just to make it insuring. But the end of the season, I think that they will be back together. I think Madeline won't be able to the clincher for them, renewing it for season, three in which I think will be too long, probably be too. But I don't know. Well, we'll see how that all elsewhere in the battle in story wanted the person who spills the beans to add about the affair is Abigail Abigail is back home and living with Madeline any predictions where where this is going to go, this really like the big dramatic moment that we're gonna get out of that, or is there still to be mined from the fact that there are some tension between Madel and Abigail about whether or not Abigail is going to go to college. Just think that this is sort of like a subplot. I'm not really too concerned about this. I think we have bigger fish to fry got bigger fish to fry. Madeline is also really trying to connect with Bonnie. There's a couple of scenes in this episode where I offers, Bonnie, the ride while bond is going for a run bunny does not seem to not even going for runs. A long walk doesn't. Wanna get picked up by Madeleine during the walk. Yeah. No. I think she truly is a loner and a lot of ways as we're seeing from all of her different interactions with people, she's having a really hard, time as she keeps saying she's having a tough time and Madeline is trying to relate to Bonnie, but it's not going so well as Bonnie is trying to just sort through this stuff on her own. But I felt like we have our first kind of pseudo breakthrough when Madeleine comes to Bonnie, it says, I want you to take this the wrong way, but I think Abigail should come back to my house, and she presented that information in a way that felt like it was like she was bracing for, like an intense perception and instead Bonnie was pretty quickly, like, yes, probably good idea. I can't give her what she needs right now. Yeah. I think that the a lot of ways probably the tension, that they've had as being like ex wife and current wife of Nathan, has probably dissipated in the light of the tragedy of Perry dying, but how, how could there not be some sort of contention still between the two of them? And it makes sense, I think from everyone's per. Effective that Abigail go to the home. That's a little bit more loving and supportive. It was at that point. Right. Right. I think we can move into into Bonnie tears, because she does have such a big story line, and this episode she's going for the long walks on the side of the road. I love how your. You're walking in the middle of nowhere second. I'm not in the middle of nowhere on a high. I'm on a hike. That's just kind of you know, kind of where the big deal in the body storyline. This week is the introduction of her parents crystal FOX has mentioned playing Oba Howard Martin Donovan as dad. His name on the show is also Martin as he is named in real life. Donovan. Yeah. But he's like, so inconsequential to the Martin Donovan dinner and you don't see him at their house at all. What's he was? He was on on weeds, art. Donovan were you were you weeds person? I don't think you were think you watch the weeds using the season or to think he was in a season. I don't think he made it much further past that it's been in a bunch of stuff, but he's in saved. That's what I remember using saved remember him from are you down with geo d I always have been. He's also an aunt, ma'am. So he's a part of the marvel cinematic universe. So that's exciting. Yes. So we were seeing bunnies parents here. What are some of the big takeaways from meeting? Bonnie's parents here. It would appear that there was a lot of drama, maybe in her childhood along the lines of her mom being drinker. Yes, we got some information there that's on, which is like, oh, you're drinking again. Yeah. So that probably something that will be dissected in coming episodes. It would appear that her mom is definitely of the earthy, crunchy type as well. I don't really know what to make of the feather, crystal bone combination other than maybe she's trying to heal her daughter in some sort of spiritual way. But Bonnie is also not super receptive to that. So that's kind of interesting, and her mom being like while you're building walls, your husband's kind of a moron. She's like he's an emotional idiot. So she says he's not supportive emotional ADS really love their exchange when they're in the walk in the forest together. And she's like, what are you doing here? No one else looks like you, you married a guy who's more or less kind of just like Joe schmo, right? You know what walls are you building around yourself? And I found that to be very poignant. And I also it was just something I always notice anyway, where I was like, oh, it's nice to see like a little diversity on the show, but it's great for them to talk about it where they're just sort of like, yeah, you're the only person of color that we see at all. I guess the teacher right? Shipping with Celeste, I said, as we were watching this show like you were like they should get together. I was just like I'm in general think that that's the plot wanted to be. I wanted to. I don't there's really no base really bad idea for him. But it'd be great what hot mess. That would be true hot mess is would be like, who is this man? No. It'd be it'd be great. But I, I like that this storyline is opening up. I think that one of the things that season two as the opportunity to do is to kind of heighten the story for, for Zoe crap. It's just she was great and season, one we just didn't get a lot from her. Like I said last week, there's so much more for in the book. So it's nice for them to kind of flush out her character a little bit more in the show now is their stuff from the book that hasn't made it onto the show that you think the introduction of Bonnie's parents could bring up, and if they're like any kind of major. Spoiler type things from the books, I would say, don't reveal that they're back their background is, is definitely more prevalent in the book like the drinking stuff. She's more trying to get away from her father. I believe. Okay. So they've flipped the roles on this, which I think is fine. You know. You know, especially for everybody, who's only watching the show and never never read the book, I don't think it's that big of a deal. Either way we're kind of learning more about her background now. So it doesn't it should reveal itself, especially since this is uncharted territory in terms of literary works. Oh. But yeah, it's I think it's great to finally have a spotlight on her to kind of get into her head a little bit more. I mean, I think, honestly, anyone would be devastated if they'd knocked guy down a flight of stairs, after he was attacking a whole bunch of women. I mean it depends on the guy I guess obviously clearly very traumatized for the rest of your life. Right. And I think it's very funny that her mom, even points this out of dinner where she's like Nathan. It's so weird that you would call me and say, to me, you know, Bonnie's been acting weird for the last six to eight months in like what's been going on. Well, I'm pretty sure we can narrow that down to one incident. Right. And there was a gala. And, you know, she saw man fall to his death with his brain spluttered everywhere. Don't you think that might have something to do with her mood? And he's like, Ooh, I forgot. Kind of feel like he's just grasping at straws at this point like between Ed and her mom being like your fix my wife. Yeah. He's he is absolutely emotionally stunted like he. Intelligent. I'm glad that he's concerned, but also like, come on. I mean, I think the thing that he said to Bonnie earlier where he was like divorce can be terrible, and like his voice cracks. I love that. I'd love to see more of that kind of like emotional intelligence, even if it's just a flicker of it here, and there like to invite her mom over and be like, yeah. So you've been having issues I called her mom. I will be really mad at you. If you did that. Thrilled by they don't love to see my mom. But if you didn't ambush on me, instead of kind of figuring out what was going on. And like obviously, he's like I've tried to talk to you, Bob. It's complicated because I thinking is way like his limited capacity. I do think that he's tried. And I think in his mind. This may just be one of the failings of this characters like he's not going to be able to reach those conclusions on his own. Like he's a good guy in other ways is probably like very practically useful. Around who knows a man wears flannel doesn't mean he's, he's been. He's been described as very outdoorsy, right? Like he's been described as somebody who had kind of lives that life. He's like, hunky and that sort of like traditional, you know, alpha type way but as a sensitive guy as he somebody who's going to be able to really pick up on why you're down doesn't seem like it. So maybe for him, he's kind of like, in this in this place of despair doesn't feel like he has anybody. He can really lean on for like, the, the emotional like dividend that needs to occur that typically, the person that helps them with this stuff that he's leaned on for so much of his recent life has been Bonnie. This is that moment where he needs to join a men's group. Yeah. Yes. T from the Americans or I mean, I think that was a real thing. But that's what I remember it from there. So. So I had a whole article about it. I think that could be helpful. And so maybe Ed will be able to, to help each other out in some way, if they don't kill each other in a fistfight. I. Emily. Yes, the crystal the feather in the bone side from being rate name of a fantasy novel an album that has yet to be written or an album that has yet to be recorded my apartment or your apartment, that's going to be the name of your apartment. Welcome to the crystal feather in the bone apartment that you're renting behind my back. Or is this where we live? Where we live. Armie podcast, very awkward. We at least finish out the season. Do you have any insight into the crystal feather and the bone? I know that you've been trying to read it. You've been reading up on it. Nobody's an answer. There's not a lot of clarity on it. Especially in the context of this show. Yeah. I do know that a lot of people use crystals as a cleansing power. I don't know if there's any scientific proof behind it, but they certainly look really cool. I have a couple on our coffee table that I just like to use this paperweights. Yes. The bone. I don't really know looks like a chicken bone chicken, and feather looks great. The. Once somebody really likes birds. So what was that? What was so special about the feather, I don't know. It might just be like a cleansing thing that she's putting all these things together. And hopefully it brings good energy into her. Daughter's home, these things that Bonnie has ascertained over the course of her life, like earlier in her life, when things are either, like a little more peaceful with her mother, or man, qualities also, I mean, men talismen. Nathan should join talismans group, Bonnie and her mom do have that conversation when they're sitting at the stairs in her mom's, like I've been having dreams reams having visions. And she goes, I know you do too, and the water rationing. And so is this is the crystallised feathers the bone or these things from Bonnie's childhood, when she was a little more open to that, or at least a little more open to discussing those kinds of things with her mom? I don't know. I mean, I'm, I'm certain that this is sort of something she was raised on. But obviously, she's like I don't want that here. I don't want to have that conversation again, like cut it out, and her mom's like, okay, I'm just telling you having these visions. I know you are tail. Yeah. Which I love. Yeah. Why do you love it so much? Because the vision thing is like so me you have dreams. Yeah. I do. Yeah. I've predicted so many babies births funny, there's, there's a lot of strange occurrences, that have happened with them with myself, not much of a believer, but it is hard to deny the predictive powers of I have. I have not have drowning usually childbirth. I don't know why we'll do a vision cast at some point in the in the future. Yeah. I'm predicting the future your bone. I'm predicting the future in that's going to happen. That's something just gonna put that in the counter vision. Okay. And we has predictions cast, all right? Let's talk about other people, I mean Celeste has, has a lot going on in this episode. Speaking of dreams, she's like sleep, you know, her sleepwalking, and sleep talking has escalated to sleep driving. Yeah. Shakes ambient at two in the morning, and she then like wakes up crashing her car, she's very lucky that she is pretty okay? And it's really just the car that got smashed up. Yeah. And she was in a sort of a dream sequence of Perry when it happened, too. So she just sort of blacked out. I was frightening. Yeah. That was scary. Yeah. Very scary. She's clearly still having feelings for Perry. Even though he's gone, she's meeting with therapist in this episode, and she's talking about how she's she doesn't she's ever going to be able to get over it. She's pretty honest about when you suggested that I get back into dating pool I was fended by that, right? It's, it's so tough that, you know, she she has such complicated feelings still about this, man who so clearly violated every single sacred thing that you're supposed to uphold as a human being, as, as a partner, but she, she can't, like kind of, like untethered herself from, from the abuse from the happy memories that she does still have, and I love the therapist being, like okay. Think about like this one particular incident that happened envisioned Madeline. Yeah, in it instead of yourself. What would you do? How would you react because I think she's trying to get Celeste to realize, okay, all of this stuff that you normalized for. So long was not normal and you can say it wasn't normal over and over again. Try putting anybody else in your place? Right. How upsetting that? Yeah. And it was it was upsetting to, to see that to see Reese Witherspoon on the receiving end of the Alexander Skarsgard beatdown was very jarring. And I can I can only imagine what was like the film like new. Imagine him coming in for all these little snippets and vignettes and being like, okay. So you're pretty much like choke out, three different women today. Right. Say three different creepy thing. And that's episode two it was upsetting very terrible led to Celeste screaming primarily. Yeah. But she does later too. Yeah. Let's talk about her with Mary Louise. Yes. What I it seems like things between Celeste and Mary Louise are trending upward, right? Where where she comes home Celestin and Mary Louise had already interacted earlier in the day. So let's didn't or Mary Louise rather in Madeleine had already interacted earlier in the day. We'll talk about that more. A little bit in a little bit. We talked about that right now. They had word. I mean battling like saying, like, yes, let's had to help me with things like, oh, what kind of things like, oh, a short person then and Mary Lou and, you know, 'cause madeleine's not the type of person who's gonna let something live, but neither is mary-louise. So it makes sense to me that their animosity is escalating the point where it's just like open hostilities, where Mary Louise goes, you don't like me, very much, do you and they get into the conversation. Mary Louise talks about, like standing up to the bully. I was always being friends with being friends with the bully and just like am I the bully. In this situation, also does something, very strange with the necklace with her with her cross. She, like she puts it on her chin. Yeah. No. She just says it as like a little tick, she's like, well, I'm sure when you're being very like appropriate and behaving in a crate front to have. And then she puts the necklace up on her chin. Yeah, it's like I'm afraid of like you're going to break it off by accident. She probably will later. So that's a Chekhov's broken chain. I'm waiting for her to really let loose. I'm waiting for her not a moment. Well, she had a lot of terrible moments in this episode terrified. But she Celeste, imagine her being your mother-in-law terrified that'd be horrible. It'd be very, very, very, very, very, very frightening to, to have a woman like Mary Louise, in that my in my close family, I would be terrified, but she says to Celeste, she's like, I'm looking for department in the area, I wanna be here to help you, but I don't want to always have to be here here, and I loved Celeste reaction may lose. You've been so helpful, but I do think a little space would be great, and like that sticks. Mary Louise craw, she set the trap, and then she's not happy. She caught something out of them. Yeah. Yeah. I think that she didn't love Celeste answer. I think like Celeste dancer was like a reasonable thing to say if you're speaking to a reasonable person, and I think that we are really getting the sense that Mary Louise, not exactly reasonable person know somebody who's been through a lot of pain. Right. You know, like we didn't know that there was another death in the family when she was sort of younger with Perry. So my assumption is that Raymond who she brings up is Perry's brother who died brings up later in the flash. Yes. That's my as well. Okay. Yeah. He died. When Perry was like, what did he say? Five said young Perry killed him. Oh, wow. This could be one of those Eureka moments where in a couple of episodes. We look back, Mike. Mary Louise has like her Eureka moment. Watch little boys fighting each other. Yeah. Where she's like I believe you in terms of why she'd been rejecting it for so long that Perry was a monster. And it turned out that Perry had been somehow response. For the death of her own other son, something like that could occur. Yeah. And you don't even know where Perry's father is either very dramatic for that to happen. I don't think I don't think would be out of line at all. It's not necessarily necessary to still kind of get some of the important results that we're getting from Mary Louise, where like you could understand why Mary Louise is, as intense as she is totally because she has lost another child that she has lost two sons now in, like it doesn't have to be like, Perry killed the brother in order for, like there to be like this big revealed down the line of why Mary Louise is rejecting the idea that Perry could be abusive. It could just be as she's already traumatized from having lost a son. And now history has repeated itself. She's like, just like w traumatized and doubly wounded either way. When when Mary Louise, is having the conversation with Celeste after it comes out that Perry ziggys father, the game of telephone that occurs that she finds out from Josh and max that ziggys father's Yary. That was a moment. Also dropping, where you're like. Who was the first big draw? Upset with Celeste for not using a cutting board when she was lacing the sandwiches for the boys lunch on the counter directly counter. That was a stain the counter. No, but it might have left a Mark it depends on what it's made from. But if it's quartz watch out if it's courts, watch out, good words, good, life advice here for the resin to watch over the resin on the courts. But Mary, Mary, Louise, and Celeste are having it out and they're talking about what the history of violence is with Perry. This is like this felt to me like this was going to be something that was like later game season two material of Celeste, like owning up to, to Mary, the week. Whoa. We're going there this episode. Wow. She was like your son was violent, but she's still she can't shake and very, understandable, very, relatable, very, tragic very upsetting that, like Celeste can't, like kind of like several herself from the history of violence, like she feels the need to have to explain like I was as well, like she, she doesn't want to like see herself as the sole victim in this situation. She still wants to sign like some victimhood to Parry. It's very, very sad. And the way that she's articulating the information to Mary Louise, Mary Louise, just isn't buying it. Mary Louise, is being really, really terrible in that conversation about how, like wouldn't you have reported it line. Why did you go to the fleece? Couldn't Jane be somebody who was really promiscuous and slept with a whole bunch of people, and all of this stuff. But then she goes, you know what all go to the police. Right. So she's planning on going to the con-. She's like, really interesting that you found out that he had fathered another child with this woman the night of the gala. Yeah, you left that out. Yes, she's a series of you left, that outs were terrified. I mean, kind of like at the rate that we're going and the rate that we're eating up story right now it wouldn't shock me if the lie comes completely undone like mid season. Yeah. You know it's, it's not like the you know. It's not like the most airtight lie history of lies to called the Monterey fide. There's a lot of breads that could be that could be pulled on here that, that you could imagine unraveling, the whole thing in short order and mary-louise has basically like cracked the code at this point, except for like the Bonnie piece. Right. So you do in Bonnie herself seems like she's pretty ready to kind of confess because she's got so much so much so much inner turmoil about the whole thing. So wouldn't completely surprise me. If we go, there may be so upset to see the way that Mary Louise was reacting to Celeste, adding, we also want to touch upon really quickly Celeste, and Mary Louise witnessing the boys fighting, yes. And one of them just going nuclear on Celeste when she tries to hold them back. Right. Right. And then she pushes Seles does. Yeah. Because no, I don't want you to be like him. Yeah. Which is terrifying. Merrill, Louise sees this entire thing happened. And then the other part that Celeste. Witnesses. It's a discussion that they're having in the car after the boys sort of talk about in their class that they're really sad. Their dad's dead. And she's like listen. We're a family, you know, like we talk about these things, we should be able to like, you know, express that we're sad. You know, Intel each other things, and one of the boys goes will. I don't think we're that kind of family. Right. So that's very sad. And very telling and then to watch the boys talking with Celeste, later, when she reveals to them, that Ziggy is their brother or confirms so them anyway in firms. Yeah. That they all go, like was daddy, a bad man. And she says, no, he is amazing. And like I totally get it. Because like who wants to color their children's minds with that kind of stuff this early? But you have to believe that they saw a lot of really bad behavior. Those to Emma bell being choked out in the first season. Right. It's a really complicated thing obviously Celeste hasn't come to her own full firm. Good feelings about the whole thing, if such feelings can ever like fully be rive at just the level of abuse, and harm and damage that has has occurred in this in that marriage, and therefore in that family. But the dichotomy between that and what Jane tells Ziggy to shifted over to Jane, who doesn't have a ton going on in this episode outside of. She's maybe you I talking about a practice date with with very strange Corey. Yeah. Which that'll happen and that'll be blunt, bang, images, lots of the banks are out in full force, but Jane has bad hair and this come on. He's a cute kid. They're all great. Jane Jane when, when this thick it has bad. I mean come on young show that you're talking about could've just like pulled it back a little, I don't know. We're not going to get that young Sheldon sponsorship that I've been working so hard for. Ruth's, Chris, Ruth's Chris come on tweet me back. Anyway, leave. Or we're veering far off topic tag. Jane Jane does tell Ziggy she could firms to him when she finds out everything that's going on Ziggy talks about how what's a salt. We got even that. Yeah. I was born from salts puts he gave you salt. He salted, you didn't. He doesn't fully understand that the great agent acted great AJ mass tweeted about reaction to this episode didn't love that. Ziggy doesn't know what assault is considering he himself had been accused of assault and sees one. I think it's a fair point. But a counterpoint is child. Maybe doesn't it didn't pick up on the gravity of the word assault of. But I hear it AJ as saying, maybe he didn't want to believe that that's what happened to your mom. Right. Imagine. Right. But Jane confirmed what had happened? She tells him that this is just for him, gene, in Celeste have the open conversation of like I did. Tells ziggy. What happened is not thrilled thrilled at first, but I mean they seem like to get on the same page of Jane being wake. I know that you have to protect your kids, I have to protect mine in that for me means I can't lie to him about anything. But I've told him that this is just for him that being said something that I see kind of lining up for a collision is what Ziggy now knows about who his father is versus what Josh and max believe about who their father is Jane has told Ziggy that his father was an abusive man, Josh and max have been told that their father is an amazing man. Maybe a little weak. Maybe dig that she can give him, right? He could be a little weak. But what kind of collision is going to occur there because it's not like they're not gonna talk, especially since they're introduced, as brothers to each other at the end of the episode. Right. They're having a play date together. Everyone seems a little sheepish and adorable. Like, you know, this is the new normal for them. So what does that mean in terms of them comparing notes? Yeah, yeah. So I think that's something to watch out for we've gone so long without talking about Renata. Save the best relying not. Why? I love this. Yeah. I mean, I feel horrible for her situation. There lie Gordon was doing all sorts of bad trades, or whatever and finance, we should have known it, by the train so many drinks near those train. So we to what happened what, what was Gordon doing as best as you could explain to me, essentially from what I can tell it was a failed business or like failed like investment. He knew it was going south but no one else did. So a lot of people were, like sort of tanked in terms of their money. And he gets pulled out by the FBI and picked up and charged with a whole bunch of this stuff, but is released on bond because obviously, he's not really a threat to the community. Either way. Though he basically says, like I bet all of our savings, like all of our financial stakes Innis. Yes. So if I have to pay out all of this stuff like they're gonna come for all of our money like ama- bells trust is fine. It's. Reveiw revocable trust. Right. A camp, we'll how he was like saying that. Like that's like the great news. Like M bells going to be fine worried. It's an irrevocable trust. Like she's gonna be okay. And like what about us? He's like, no, this could be good people like good new chapters. What a spin really trying to spin it for early. She's, she's like, well, I had nothing to do with this. So, like, are they gonna come for me? I had I was not involved, and he's like, oh, no. Like your money is community property like they're going to take everything but a lot not as life is changing now. I mean, it's it sounds like she she had come from poverty, or at least she was she was not living the lifestyle that she made. He's currently living. You'd be the reference to the quote earlier in this podcast. I'm not gonna not be rid. I will not know rish, which is an incredible line, but she may have to change. She's going from this situation where she's about to be the cover person of this powerful women in business magazine that, you know, who knows if that's still going to hold in light of handle when this all happens like he gets picked up there at the coffee shop. She's wearing like Gucci. Fanny pack Gucci pants like a great little like Puffer like sleeveless vest. Yeah. She's got the look. Yeah. And then her whole life as she. He knows it is basically pulled out from underneath her. Yeah. I mean who knows what the what the depths of this are going to be like, how far will she fall? She could she could lose, how she could lose her status. She's going to need to find a new place to sit apparently, is what we've heard that. She's, she's not going to be sitting in some of the places that she she'd previously sat before you're not getting all you're not getting it. It's okay. Some people, maybe you're getting it. Maybe I'm not delivering the joke if there was a joke about trading. Get it earlier in the episode. At that happens like such a good one line. It was very funny line is very funny line, say it. No, I can put on the spot embarrassed a little awkward about one thing. I want to note is that when Gordon gets taken into custody, you see the Cup detective from the Monterey of five case. Yes. Rifai right. A witnesses her going by. She's like she's got she's got this. So, like there's a little spark where she's like, yeah. And then we see her stir to lose her, like proverbial shit at the sentencing hearing that they have not the sentencing initial hearing of, like when they're sending setting bond bail for how much it will be and. You see her looking around at everybody who's, like an official court employees, or a lawyer, and everything, and they're all laughing at her. She has the vision all laughing. Yeah. So there's a real fear there. She's really losing her mind. I just wonder what that's going to unravel in terms of her role in the lie. The fact that the cop is, is shown in that way, she going to be like leaned on, and that's something she talks to Madeline about, and in one scene, where she's like, are we being strong armed into something like, why would they think to pick Gordon up on these charges like they're going after me taking my ipad, my laptop, what are they looking for? So could this be a slow chipping away at the facade of all of these, like perfect women's lives to try to get in further and really figure out what happened to Perry on that night? Right. So it could be. I mean, it'll be interesting to see the husband's we've talked about Gordon has been arrested. He is out on bail right now is kicked out of the car temporarily kind of funny. Could see and kinda looked good in the prison suit. Got to say you know, he got I'm not. I kind of looked good. I mean, I've never I've never worn one, but I could like me. If you want to do some role playing so where we did just watch a whole lot of is we watched the whole series in Spanish, I mean week's podcast coming to Michael J Clark's pilot season, very shortly keeping your out for that. So who knows do, we think Gordon's going to go to jail for good, or at least like by the end of the season in prison is going to be out of prison? I'm wondering if it's not gonna crack because she basically Stanford lose, Ed. Your husband out of jail still, like, how do I get out of this scenario where I lose? She doesn't like Gordon enough to do it just for Gordon. She was like, not do this debate, right? Yeah. I feel like she likes the money more she likes status. She likes the life that she's carved out more than she likes the man. It's like collateral who knows? So Ed has been hit has broken it off with battling. And Nathan his is a dummy dumdum, and we're wondering if those two are either gonna become best friends, or if they're going to fight each other now that they still dead. Yeah. Perry is still dead. But we're we're still seeing the Perry flashbacks. I think that there's still a little more Perry that should be coming, our way in the near future. Then with the kids, we've basically talked about everything that's going on with the kids. I guess one thing that we haven't really speculated on too much is what's going to happen with, with Ziggy Jane, and Mary Lee's. Now that Mary Louise like has a reason to investigate Ziggy, who could potentially be one of her grandchildren. Yes. Didn't you see on the coming up on the rest of the season? There was a scene, where Jane Ziggy like come around a corner, and Mary Louise, it's just standing there at them. Yeah. I mean I, I can't wait. It's going to be intense. It's gonna be great can be great feedback. We've got some feedback from. Yeah. You want to hear you do. Do people have had to say the great shut? I'm Tim or are expert in Monterey in that part of California who says apparently the parking by the aquarium is not so bad. Okay. That's good. It's not it's not that expensive. It's not that pricey and at the aquarium itself is very worthwhile. So we ever get back to, to that part of the country. I think that stop at the aquarium I'd love to on the agenda shut up Tim writes in and says, other than his ears should Ed also get his memory checked didn't he basically know all of this at the end of season? One man one never comes out and says it Ed. But the final thing that we really see if Ed NC's one is he's singing, and he's looking out into the crowd and he's watching Madeline look off it Isaac. Mendez Isaac Mendez, looking back at Madeline, so is it something that he intuitively knew in, like didn't investigate any further what he think was going on with all that, I think it was probably something where he was, you know, suspectful of like what's going on? But like beyond that, probably. Really overshadowed by Perry's of an in depth. Yes, you know, there were enough, hints dropped throughout the end of season one and into season two that he was probably like this is weird. People are acting strangely around me. Right. So if nothing else I think this was the missing puzzle piece to have it finally verbally confirmed, another from showed up Tim, what are some of the other things that Renate used to like that? She will no longer be participating in. So we know that she will no longer be sitting in certain spots. What else is we're not a she's not going to be helping Gordon build his model trains. Yeah. Days are done get kicked off of some boards to right. I think that the magazine is in jeopardy. And I think that's like once that happens, the cover the cover shoot that she did once that like it's taken away from her going that might be like a real impetus for her to consider some other wasn't she saying on the phone that you're the best PR person ever. Yeah. We'll maybe that PR person can be like, hopefully control. Hopefully, but if she feels that that's not possible, maybe. We'll make some moves shop. Tim also chimes in and says, in your last episode Josh mentioned, Emily picking up picking him up on the first date, because his car had been totaled was accident ambient related as well. I don't think that that was exactly the story. My car got totalled once but neither of us were in it. It's unclear if the accident was ambient related or or happened in the middle of the night. So who knows it could have been a white vehicle. Yeah. Something happened to my, my car is not the first eighth. And it was like eleven or twelve years ago at this, I'd rather not relive it. It was very traumatic for me was our first date. You came over, and brought me sushi. I know we came over, and I brought, you know, you probably. A taco salad is what I had brought me a California burrito. What's the name of that restaurant? Syracuse New York. Also Cinco, Cinco. If you're in Syracuse New York, then you came over to hang out and you brought me sushi. Another time. Yes. Yes. But very lightly because I have a weak stomach. I was just nerve. I was very nervous but I also have a weak stomach. And I was very nervous about what could possibly happen. If I if I if I over indulged in certain cuisines. So that was really the thing on my mind salad on our I, I was trying to be very, very cool. I was very lie. Oh my God. I looks great. I'm trying to get back to that Leo rule. Forever. Tweeted us a couple of things I is how long will be before Mary. Louise tries to poison ziggys mind about the way that Perry really was in her fantasy of her vision of who she thinks or wants him to be. I've, we've just talked about this a little bit. But I, I really can't wait to see what that's gonna that's gonna look like in, in wonder how how much exp-? Does your she will actually have to Ziggy because Jane is very pro protective just such a close relationship with her son. She's not really going to allow Mary Louise much room in life to have a very deep conversation, unless Mary Louise is able to get to Ziggy without Jane being present. Well, yeah, and that might be part of it, too. She's getting a condo here part time. Yeah. How mine? Yeah. Like Ziggy go over to Celeste to play with the boys and Mary Louise has an opportunity to talk to him there. I don't know. But I think the key will be if Mary Louise can can be with Ziggy alone, and I think that would be a hell of seen. So I hate it, and I and I desperately wanna see it Leo role forever. Also says, what do you make of on his mom, having some kind of site vision of what's happening in the future? She said she saw a person drowning where do you think that that's going to go? I mean okay. So another flash forward in the preview for the rest of the season is Bonnie and underwater. Yeah, a really fast clip. Yeah. So, you know, maybe that's what she's in visiting maybe she, you know, is talking. More along the lines of Bonnie, emotionally drowning, which she sort of, hints that in this episode anyway, I don't really know. I think it's compelling. I think it adds another layer and we're certainly along the ocean. So why would that be that on, you know? That strange to not think about right now. Right. The affirmation Michael j Clark writes in and says, in a series with truly elite acting performances. Can we give Adam Scott and Reese Witherspoon the belt for that scene? I think the break-up seen what did you think of the, the breakup, it's heartbreaking? And I think it's actually that would have really gone down where she's like talking and talking. And then she's like, oh my God. Can you? Please just tell me what you're thinking. Right. Yeah. It was it was tough. It was tough to watch. I think that the Mary Louise and, and Celeste scene, that was that was probably my my seen that out. Yeah. You left that part out? God, Meryl Streep weekly, Meryl Streep. I know I just want to do an impression of her and read some of her lines everywhere. Brenta shower. Man says, I know you seem you said it seemed like big little lies fanfare, but I really need more. Ed, Nathan, scenes moving forward. Perfect levity. When did you think of this week's confrontation Brent? I love you. I still just not totally feeling the Ed Nathan stuff, and it does still feel like big little lies fan fit for me the problem. I think I'm having with it is like either it's being played just for laughs like the intensity of Nathan. Yes. Quick interstitial between some other horrible tragedy happening next and being revealed. And like in that level does just feel like like big little lies wish fulfillment having these two characters seen together, and it's not really going anywhere or it's going somewhere. And right now, it's just like kind of funny, but like hard to take seriously. So if it's going to be going in a serious direction, I think that he got a little bit of work to do. I think the chemistry between those actors and those characters feels like it's almost part of a different show. I could just feels a little too cute for big little lies to me anyway, I don't know and. Why can't one of them go to a different coffee shop? What happened to Tom small towns? Live all Tom, Tom gums shut down or killed. Tom Tom's been shut down. I don't know it's possible. He did threaten. He made a lot of threat of Gordon killed is not impossible. Okay. So that's the feedback reminder push recaps feedback. That is how we like to get it. You can also tweet at us at poacher. Recaps Twitter account. I'm at round Howard. And we is at mlive anything else from this episode that we did not cover that you would like to cover here. No, I think I will bring a bone of crystal feather in all right. Yeah. I think that, that would be nice. I don't know how it will play for the podcast. But it might bring in good vibes for us though. Yeah, bring it along on this trip that we're about to take a lot as we podcast from the road as we said, we will be on the road coming up very shortly. Speaking of the road, and we before we close out. We take a quick second to thank our sponsors for this episode. Those are friends over at truecar absolutely right. Sixty seconds. Yes, that's exactly how long. This commercial last what else you can do in about a minute, you can offer for your car with truecar. That's right. In the amount of time. It takes to floss your teeth at your dog. We do not have dog into a few sit ups or just listen to my voice, you can get a true cash offer. Best of all, you can do it from your smartphone or home. Just go to truecar and simply enter your license, plate, number, and watch, how your car's details pop up answer if you questions and you'll get an accurate true cash offer from a local truecar certified dealer. It's that easy after that, you can bring your car in and they'll check it out with you together. You can ask questions and get the answers you need. So there's no surprises. Then simply leave with your check or trade in your car for a new ride. So when you're ready to experience a better way to celebrate and your car, check out truecar today. Well, yeah, so please, do what else what else, Emily FOX? What else is going on? I don't know man doing all right doing. All right. Everything's going well, humidity is one hundred percents. I'm very, very humid out. Is really getting under my skin. I was very cranky before this podcast. But you know what you saw the best in what we had to talk about. We I tried. I tried my best just the thought of having a crystal in a feather in a bone in my future is in your what? These are very exciting prospects for me, very exciting that we are doing this big little lies podcast. Thank you, all for listening for all the great feedback along the way. It's been so much fun to do so far reminder Porsche recaps dot com slash tunes for our main feed Poche recaps com slash big little lies. We are still working on getting that setup at hopefully in the not too distant future that will be ready to roll your ratings reviews. All of that would be greatly appreciated as we are hoping to be seen in the charts. Honest reviews, honest feedback, of course, ideally is positive feedback. But if it's negative whatever your heart tells you live your life. Your truth. Yeah, but really don't say anything if it's. Give it to encourage you to lie to yourself. Matere of this show. Yes, yes, we will be back in the next week with another big little lies podcast until then take care.

Bonnie Mary Louise Madeline ED Celeste Perry Madeleine Abigail Abigail Nathan Emily Gordon Jane Jane Meryl Streep Howard Martin Donovan Monterey Emily FOX Adam Scott crystal FOX Mommy Elizabeth Howard Emily f Mary
Big Little Lies | Season 2, Episode 6 Recap: "The Bad Mother"

Post Show Recaps

1:06:08 hr | 2 years ago

Big Little Lies | Season 2, Episode 6 Recap: "The Bad Mother"

"The big little lies season two episode six. The bad mother is over but we are just getting started here on post show recap so everybody. I'm Josh Waiver. I'm joined here by Emily Fox and where the two people who are going to be shutting up about big little lies forever pretty soon I know yeah it's almost over the penultimate episode emily. I almost started this podcast off by making a joke about my diary but I felt like I'm a little too pointed and even saying the word pointed in relation nation to my diary feels rather pointed said this is the ultimate penal just did Oh man diaries in the context of this episode or a little dicey little onward we should talk about we will talk about that. Of course I don't know we have to we have to cover it all sorts of verbal diary happening here on the Allies podcast and we're getting your very lucky. I'm Obama pry Adler. I'm a prize Gordon. Whatever the crap is name is but Jeffrey Nordland? I love the actor but man that characters the garbage person there are many garbage people in the realm of big little lies but he he is among them. We're talking about episode. Six of season to the bad mother were talking about some other things into big little lies universe as well this week but we are getting very close to the finish line here and wait Fox as wig little lies looking down on the barrel of of closing out. We've got the finale podcast. That's going to be coming next week after that. We're going to do a feedback show the week following the finale so that we can just kind of do one last look back and a big little lies and then and we're going to have to we're going to set our sights on on what's coming next. What will succeed are big little lies coverage as it works that it's almost like I do this for living? I know Fash soups profess. Ah We say we perfect people say we would love your feedback along the way here. We've got some good ones to to get through as we get deeper into the podcast kosher recaps dot com slash feedback is our feedback form or you can hit us up on twitter at push. RECAPS is our twitter under account. I'm at round Howard like Ron Howard but rounder. I've said it emily how about yourself I met Emmett like an Omelette but with an e we Wanna hear your tweets who want to hear what you're thinking of big little lies as we're going along you could also subscribe to our show our big a little last show only feed at poster recaps dot com slash big little lies or however you want to subscribe to your you know your podcast listening platform of choice to the main Po. Show recaps feed to make sure that you're not missing anything else that's going on. We're in stranger things finale week for Mike Bloom and I even though stranger things debuted long ago at this point but we're getting close to the end of our stranger things coverage over there as well so if you if you haven't check that out yet I highly recommend you do. It's very weird very fun. podcast that we have done and we fox a big little scandal in the in the world of big little lies episode okay before even get into the episode so real life. I think real life yeah I mean break this down before before we go into into into real life. Do you have just like something like big thoughts that you WanNa talk about with the penultimate before we get into any of this is very dramatic. Hyper dramatic about very dramatic episodes of big little lies like shut the T._v.. Off immediately radiantly after the final scene. I started laughing a little bit yeah I I don't know if if I've been in septic by Mike Bloom or or what his his comment from a couple of weeks ago about how the shows little little cartoony but give starting to develop over the past couple of weeks and this episode was just very outlandish in point so we'll talk about all of that I'm sure but I think that we can talk about some of the I saw a lot of feedback from a lot of different people who were feeling like something felt like a little title off about this episode people who have been sending that. Maybe something feels like a little bit off about big little lies generally this season. Oh by the fact that there's not a book to accompany it could be part of it as a little <music> off scripted you know with <hes> the fact that it should have ended the I could be there could be part of it could certainly be part of a then. We would never get Mary Louise Wright. That's trail never have Meryl Streep the Pizza Yeah Yeah with those little teeth with as little and we're hearing from H._B._O.. exacts though that a third season is probably not in the works yes. That's something that had broken a few days ago. Yeah I think that they would be Steve Super pumped if they could get the stars to align literally the stars of big little lies to align for another project but it doesn't seem very likely so it seems more likely that season two big little lies will be the final season and maybe they feel the same kind of eerie we sort of overdramatic. You know pause that we're getting to from watching this. Maybe Nicole was like you know what I'm who knows Reece's like I can't do this anymore. Scan I don't know scandal yeah scandal in this scandal in the world of big little lies late last week a report on July twelfth published on Indie Wire Dot Com with the headline big little lies season two turmoil inside Andrea Andrea Arnold loss of creative control Andrea Arnold being the director of season two of big little lies and rather than than you know bungle the details of the report. I think it'd be best to just read need some of the report for those who have not heard the news report. That is making the rounds so I will unless you emily you can you can read the report if you want to. I WanNa read a decent amount of let's let's start what start right from the top right from the first episodes something has felt slightly disjointed about the second season of big little lies when the show isn't in the flow of its recognizable style. There is a strange editorial tension scenes choppy lacking any sense of internal rhythm as it turns out that friction was the product of a behind the scenes struggle that grew. I have an attempt to remove the style of its director in post production when the executive producers H._B._O.. Approached Andrea Arnold about directing the second season of big little lies the pitch was simple. They not only wanted the British filmmaker from American honey to direct the entire season they wanted Andrea Arnold version of the show and all that it entailed it wasn't just lip service from prep through production and into postproduction Arnold Arnold was to get free reign but significant part of H._B._O.. And showrunner David Kelly's plan was not shared with Arnold according to a number of sources close to the production. This was a dramatic. There was a dramatic shift in late two thousand eighteen as the show was yanked away from Arnold and creative control was handed over to executive producer and season one director John Mark Valet the goal was to unify the visual seat style of season one and two in other words after all the episodes had been shot take Arnold's work and make it look and feel feel like the familiar style valet brought to the first hit season which one eight of the sixteen emmys it was nominated for in two thousand seventeen including outstanding. Whatever because you're scrolling ramesses limited series is rather according to sources close to the executive producers it had always been the plan although unbeknownst to Arnold for Vallega become re-involved in the show last Fall Kelly whose T._v. career started in the nineteen eighties writing network shows is strong believer that A._T._v.'s different than movies shows having unified style rather than direct oriel voice in working with L._A.? During the first season Kelly grew grew to trust and appreciate the distinct tone and visual style the director brought to his series and entered the second season seeing it as the established look of the show when H._B._O.. And the show's executive producers or unwilling to wait for L._A.. Who had committed to sharp objects the creative team behind the show collectively decided to hire arnold who's worked they believed that Valet and his season one team could easily easily shape into the shows distinctive style in post production valet who advocated for Arnold told any wire last May that he saw their directorial styles as being cut from the same cloth? We have similar ways of shooting when you look at it said Valet she shot hand-held available light she aims for performances like I did one she is she is who she is but the spirit of the others. Is there okay so that's there's more to the report from anywhere. That's on anywhere dot com if you haven't read it already the end credit to the author Chris O. Fault who wrote this story kind of electrified big little lies twitter towards the end of the week so we're coming at this a little bit late but this is when our podcast comes out and I don't Ooh I mean it's fascinating do think certainly if we've been monitoring some of the feedback we've been receiving emily over the past few episodes of coverage like the seems fairly consistent with the way that the audience seems to be receiving and season two of big little lies. It's arguable that the the acting is great that we're dealing with such great performance definitely you're there have been some issues with the writing where some of the scenes like feels like a little. Sometimes it feels like a little paint-by-numbers or maybe it feels feels like the story is a little thinner. Will you made last night where you were like. I feel like there are small inner. Stick interstitial scenes that are paint-by-numbers that occur basically in every single episode that we don't need to see well there was the Mo- There was one moment in episode six and this most recent episode where Madeline comes to Ed Ed is sitting by his like his I MAC and his Mac book and enjoy shows during a diary journal well today's the first day of my diary a strange idea and I don't know how to feel about a lot Tori and your new I mean that would have been exciting scene but just sort of way it was literally. It was just there. She just shows up and they like the same conversation they've had for the past several weeks now with like no real forward movement in in the in the conversation. I think that they've been there have been a lot of jokes John Denver for desperate cousin. John had John Denver. No He's not he's not talking. Big little lies. Sadly John Desperate had had tweeted to us a link to a video of a quick whole author who had created this parody video about about the I can only think about memories in big little lies style video of her on a beach and like she stops like walking on the beach and has like a flash to something else and there does like feel like maybe there's like a little bit of like big little lies almost like parodying itself at time like redundancy. That's so obvious it seems a little strange sometimes and I think at this story helps to explain that to a certain degree that there's some behind the scenes stuff H._B._O.. Eventually responded to they sent out a statement to a few different outlets including my my home base Hollywood reporter and the network had said in a statement on Friday to the Hollywood reporter. There wouldn't be a season two big little lies without Andrea Arnold we H._B._O.. And the producers are extremely proud of for work as with any television project the executive producers work collaboratively on the series and we think the final product speaks for itself and we're not making a third season. This won't won't be a problem next year anyway. I I don't disagree with in Indy Wire Story. It's it's attributed to. I think David Kelly that television is kind of producers. Medium and show should have a unified style rather than a directorial voice. I do think that there should be something as you know something like a house style for a T._v.. Show for certain shows how salad maybe not maybe not for every single show certain shows thrive on like the real individuality of the tone the feel of an episode as a unit but other shows kind of structure their story more like an extended film which I do hate that idea of T._v.. As like a autour who comes into this was an eighteen hour movie as much as I love twin peaks return I love twin peaks the return because it was great eighteen episode season of T._v.. maven seventeen episodes. I'm blanking on the number right now I._M._D._b.. Day short-circuited it but he even like someone. Who's you know an autour like David Lynch and he's directing every single episode of that so it's closer to a movie but you're trying to come up with something like feels? Unified feels like something of a piece and I get that idea of you want your episodes to look consistent and you want that second season to look of a piece of the first season so as a premise as just generally. I don't have an issue but it's not it's not great if this is like withheld held from Andrew Arnold which is what the story alleges that they call John Mark and went after they looked at Jane's bangs like Oh God bring a patio who knows what it is style. Dry Your own conclusions. This is out there oval a her banks too short fillet who knows who knows what the what the real shenanigans are behind the scenes but I think there has been like sort of this tension in the viewing of big little lies season to that maybe this helps to explain and I don't mind the ashore looking similar to its first season in a show looking similar across the board but I do think that like it should be above board and everybody should be on the same page about something like this it kind of feels like she got caught at at a left field with us to hear female director to we don't see a lot of them. These days we want to be more inclusive certainly not enough yet and to have him back in post. Production seems a little funky so that's the scandal surrounding rounding Bill Big Little Lies Right now Emily Fox but we gotta talk about scandals. Within the universe of big little lies this is this is a big episode. Emily trials people taking the stand. Yes so many hearings of all different kinds so many hearings of all the time without unbecoming before we start recording this cat I just went and visited an E.. N. T to get my ears cleaned and you watched giddily from the sidelines as it happened. I am a woman who is looked inside of your ears for thirteen years. Yeah you have no idea how much <hes> pleasure at brought me to watch a woman take out all of the ear wax from each ear. We probably should have had a trigger warning for that because it's fairly gross description of what happened the most upsetting part where she showed me so quickly and then threw it away. No I wanted to learn to now. You're getting a little bit of insight into what would be in our diaries. If if if we were to keep I mean that's gross a little bit of a kink. That's a bad segue into some of the stuff that is being discussed before. Even get started can hear me better. I oh I do feel like I can hear you but I'm really excited about now. You can't blame your wax for not hearing no. I'll just blame it on the anxiety which is a valid. Excuse so let's get into let's get into what's going on here. In this episode the bad mother the trial L. of custody battle between Celeste and Mary Louise for the boys. We'll we'll break it down. We'll get into the specifics a little bit but just kind of on a broader scale emily any major takeaways from the way this played out this week I mean we giggled and unturned it off immediately last night after the episode concluded but I think we both looked at each other and said wow celestis finally decided to wear her lawyer hat in the eleventh hour of this yeah. I'm down a little contrived at this point well for me. I guess like if you if you accept that like she's in a very bad way she has every reason to be in a very best share yeah that she had been in a very bad way for a very long time and you know Perry's gone. There's. A lot of complicated practical developments that stem from that there's a lot of very complicated emotional issues with something like that and we're learning more about celeste sort of personal life in a way that we had not been shown as the viewer prior to Hugh right right yeah. There's things that we had missed a lot of the sexual relationships that she had had that we had not been privy to. We really only got to see joe the bartender and like one of the whammy such as it is of this episode is that Joe was like one of a few people that somebody's been spying on Celeste yeah she's been being followed hoping to build that case out to like show some of the things that's lasted been doing on the people that Celeste had been seeing but that's becoming lawyer our like I think that the the show had had taken you know had gone out of its way to show that Celeste is in distress and is in exactly thinking super clearly right now for a lot of very justifiable viable reasons for sure and so for her to finally be like sturdy enough to stand up and be like this is my fight. I WANNA wage it. which is the cliff hanger at the end of the episode that leads us into the finale is at Celeste is going to cross examine when Mary Louise in the courtroom and I guess I get it to a certain degree that she would just not be quite as put together during some of the legal battle leading up to upstate moment and you could tell earlier episodes where she first hires her lawyer and obviously she's a little sort of suspect as to whether this woman is qualified as she needs to be in order to go up against Mary Louise in her attorney but it is surprising freising that they didn't look at the angle before judgment was made that Mary Louise was in fact Perry's mother and she no she had a hand and raising him and if he was as much of a monster as everyone portends him to be why was Mary Louise Not brought up in some some capacity and asked these questions prior to correct? That's I mean I think that's a really valid criticism of the way that the trial scenes played out is like there. There were things that happened in the trial seeing that like we as a viewer could have totally anticipated. We're GONNA come Komo absolutely like the death of Perry was gonNA come up and even talked about it last week like we're. Everything's spare game. You're all fair game. I'm being dragged onto the cold light of day and so when when Peres death comes up the way it comes up the fact that it feels was like comes up as a blindside is a little surprising because that should have just come up. I think that the Mary Louise piece you're right way for that to not have been played so she felt like there was sort of like there was like kind of like an odd era fiction. This is a fictional show in real life. It's not really you know I think like a great. A great story sucks you into the point where like you're not looking for. The seems because you're doing so immersed right. I think you're based on just a lot of the reactions that I've seen I was like this is a raw edge didn't well my feeling is well. It was like Oh man like I can kind of like this. Just like this is just sort of sort of like an illusory equality annoying blindspot. It used specifically to keep at a cliffhanger at the end yeah so I don't know I mean I love Dennis. O'hare who's the actor who he's the Vampire King of Louisiana. I love describing. I'm as the Vampire King of Louisiana but I guess he's actually his name is Ira Farber and he's a pretty ruthless attorney ruthless attorney. I Guess IRA fibers a pretty fun series of words to say I refer Bor try it. Ira Farber is good. It's fun so he's IRA fiber the Vampire Assistant District Attorney of Monterey California. I don't know he's Lizzy. He's in divorce law. He's in whatever law he's in. He's he. He comes at Celeste Pretty hard and I love love that actor. We don't see him enough so I really did enjoy seeing him on the show. It's pretty cool common collected given the subject matter that he's pushing her on. He's he's he's a great actor. My colleague at the Hollywood reporter Jackie Strauss who's been covering a big little allies in her coverage has been fantastic so if you haven't side it out you really should she had a great interview with Dennis O'hare about what it was like to to be part of the big little lies cast this season. He said that he was a huge fan of the first season so it was a no brainer for him to sign on when the opportunity came up and he does a really great story Jackie asked him. What was it like to join? This big little lies world as a late comer and this is Dennis O. hairs responses. I was there all told for two weeks. The courtroom scenes were maybe five days but it was great rate. I loved being around everybody. After the Premier Event New York I actually stumbled into a very sort of exclusive private party. I was going into the hotel the same time that Merrill was and I made a joke about how we both had escaped the crowd out front. She turned around and laughed grabbed my arm and we went in the elevator in she pushed down. I said no no no I'm going up and she said No. No no you're going down the doors opened and it was some party I went in with her and we had an amazing time. I had lovely conversations with a lot of the cast and I was so grateful for that and of the story I loved the idea of the Vampire King of Louisiana being summoned to this secret elite exclusive -clusive actor party that had access to of course she had access to it because she's Meryl Streep and I also loved the idea that Meryl Streep is is kind of Nice that she just like dragged this person to this exclusive party the way I said that made it got a little more aggressive yeah. That's a little weird to drag him but I but I g escorted. I liked the performances in the scene. I felt really awful for Celeste. How did you feel about her Loponen her Loponen? I didn't notice below pony. Could you tell me more about that. She had to look very conservative and put together for these hearings and there's a morning where she's putting on makeup the night after she drank all the vodka out of a teacup right and she pulls her hair back until Loponen. Okay now just nine just making an observation but I do impound that's fine. How did how did you feel about below? It was okay to flyaways on both sides for banks. Were kind of annoying to watch yeah. That's all I have to say once upon a time John now you can let me go from the time I was on a beat around here on Porsche recaps that we referred to as WIG watch keep an eye out for the whigs like areolas and stuff making this up. No I'm not making deep. Cut Poacher recaps listeners school. We'll tell you that it's it's the truth is typically about the strange troy another vampire show but you know it extended to a couple of other things. It's been awhile since wigwam. I don't think we're talking about WH- Iguacu here yeah. I'm just noting your fascination with hair coincides with my don't you think that Fast Mary Louise is Harris fake. Yes Wig Watch I would I would expect that that is not real. I think that the Shailene Woodley hairs real no it Israel already talked. I believe that that's real but I would expect that the Mary Louise Hair is a wig but I'm rusty. It's been awhile since I've been on WIG. Watch so I could be wrong back. In the game given the fake teeth I think Merrill is clearly enjoying accessories and accessorize character so it wouldn't wouldn't surprise me so less going home after getting wake ruthlessly annihilated on the stand and then like pounding vodka the night before she knows like she's already been given the pep talk by madeline addle and everybody being like you really got to bring tomorrow at you cannot leave it like that. That's a bad luck. GotTa fight for your kids and you say no. You're told me right then she goes home. You're totally right. Luke Luke Luke Party. That's awful. I feel Har. I it's not a good coping mechanism especially if you have to be up bright and early the next day it's tough. That's it's a very real problem and she has a lot of reasons. Why should be pushed in that direction so it's just it's very it was very very hard to watch my heart went out to her? We know what of ways though we're kind of watching this power struggle between Mary Louise last for obvious reasons but I don't blame Mary Mary Louise for kind of feeling like she you know should be worried about her boys in a way the ambient thing is a little unsettling of course unless Mary Louise is like drugging Celeste Right which is very conspiratorial of me but this is a salacious show so you just don't know what kind of debate Elliot's are coming up a little salacious chrome for you emily box and that was a little salacious chrome for you. Star Wars fans that I is not which is over which is fine fine. It's fine. That's fine and I've seen it is fine. It's it's totally fine. A._B._C.'s drags. It's fine something like that could happen something like that could happen on a show that big little going up fine. It's fine that could that could be something that occurs but I think it's also possible that Mary Louise Terrible and for many of the other way proven manipulative things that she has done would make you suspect of why I should be somebody to take the boys you WanNa talk about how she speaks with Jane how the exchange some words because I feel like that is really upsetting and sort of more yeah yeah I mean let's talk about gene. Gene has has a decently sized storyline nine this week. I mean Celestin Bonnie are the are the two big ones that I would say Granada then I would say gene then I would say madeline just mostly because the madeline storyline gets it goes to a weird place that I'd like to talk about last but let's start with trump of Jane in the in the order here because there was the cliff the last week about Corey with the police Bonnie saw him and like this episode wastes no time in getting into a bit of a relief to because I think I wanted to know that more than anything I like that Jane came up to you a co-op and he's like I'm not a co-op. Some some more departed humor for you. Emily seem to like the departed stuff before so I thought that I would bring it back out because I didn't move gene isn't in this is not an orange his terrible Boston cough or you a cop choose. One Corey is not a cop. I wish my macabre COBB. Apparently he says that he he's he was being questioned about Perry rights death which is one of the things we kind of you know. Here's something like that was probably not surprising given the fact that they're sort of like angling into to the inner circle the Monterey five lays out some of what we could have already figured at this point that detective Quinn is building a case Quinlan Quinlan is that right Quinlan Detective Quinlan Detective Queen unlike that's a little bit of a departed ism for you yeah yeah detective Quinlan and Queen who get ready but detective twin building this case and she wants to she wants cut a deal with one of the Monterey five but the other four going to burn and so he's trying to push gene into a place of being like hey maybe cut that deal. I was trying to do the mental math of like who would make the most sense to be the one that breaks. Did you do that at all. I mean the show is trying to put us in the place that Bonnie rait right like Bonnie seems to be the one who she stands up in the courtroom in like has KEROUAC. I confess vision but she's writing in a book that anyone could access so we'll we'll there is that we'll get into Bonnie but that's that's what's going on with Jane and Corey and it's strange ing Jane and Corey relationship which was already a little bit arm's reach for very understandable. Reasons Corey is very. I don't love Corey in this episode to be honest like I'm still with you like I'm not a knock giving called alter prickly called her prickly like two kids who visited the BANRI aquarium how immature like at a certain point maybe just like let it go and the fact that he's not. I don't feel great about the Jane and Corey thing. That's that's that's just one person's opinion but Jane Mary Louise Yeah Jane is one of the whole Monterey five there at the custody battle there in the out in the crowd and they're watching everything and so Jane is very upset with the way that it's going down and she goes and Confronts Mary. Mary Louise They live in the same complex so it's easy for them to have a late night rendezvous and she comes to her door and you try to like Laddish Celeste is going through a lot like call it off all are in Mary. Louise Diseases on that like Oh. We're all going through a lot going through up killed by song is a lot weighing on your conscience that whole thing and real insight. I heard you had a gun. Did you have a gun because you were going to kill my son. Follow him to Monterey Honore. Did you plan on killing my son and so she shuts the door and I think the really like raises the red flags if like Oh this could happen to me too. She could try to take ziggy from right. Yeah I think I mean Jane probably already was feeling like not great about Mary. We used to begin with the tables. Turn so quickly in that way. Yeah I would be a lot so that was that was intense. That was that was an intense scene and you wonder you wonder exactly how things will resolve for our Jeanne and Mary Louise. I think a lot of it's gonNA depend on how things resolved between Celeste Verses Mary Louise and there's some there's some theorizing we can do but I wanna save that for the feedback. We've got questions on that front. Let's talk about Bonnie and I mean outside of Meryl Streep and Laura Dern because those two are probably top two of the season for me. The Zoe Kravitz performance is really really really special. I think this season and what they're doing with Bonnie. I know it's been a little divisive for some people people who aren't enjoying the Bonnie storyline so much. I think enjoys maybe a weird word to associate with what she's going through but she's just she's acting the hell out of this yeah. She's very talented. A lot that goes on with Bonnie this week her mother who has had you know who's been suffering from the effects of the stroke and she's been bed ridden from the from talk about years of alcohol abuse. We know that that has been something that's been going on with Bonnie's mother. She's still kind of like drifting in and out of consciousness. She's still not speaking at this point. They're starting to throw in the towel based on what the doctors prognosis is right now waking up. She's not coming you know from out of the state then it's probably lost lost cause and away and at least Bonnie is the one to hit the nail on the head and goes. Can we kill her which is like a very everyone is like very like charged by then I think that the sort of like the cavalier way in which she states that suggestion you you understand why everyone's like oh no back in like her. Dad is having a very heartfelt moment right before then where he's like. She's too young to die right. Leave this sort of thing and then body just blurts that out right so I I mean. I don't think that it can I. I don't think that you could just kill her Bonnie who has killing now. You select states right. I don't I don't I don't know the lie in in California. I don't think there's a lot there so in Oregon there so I don't know Bonnie says she says then everyone is kind of a little bit of gas over that she's like can't we just give her morphine and it's at I mean that's sort of a move you do in hospice but I don't think that they've completely given up hope the right but Bonnie also has like She has vision of suffocating her mother with a pillow and like euthanizing her that way but based on what Bonnie says to her mother at the end of the episode you also imagine that there's a healthy amount of rage behind that yeah career unhealthy amount of rage as it were because Bonney Lake talks about all of the different things like all the different reasons she has her confession and we've been inching towards some sort of big proclamation from Bonnie all season in long <hes> where she's jogged past the police station and we're wondering like is she going to go to the police is that what's GonNa Happen. These images of waters around round doesn't like at things are not good yeah and in this episode when. When she's there at the trial she she imagines herself standing up and being like I did it like she wants to offload that she needs to be free of this and she even mentioned that to some of the women to in their walking in through the metal detector like Oh it's starting to get to you to oh ha right and everyone's like I mean yeah probably not as bad as it is for you right right right and even when she wakes up from that dream sequence she has of her mother right waking up from the bed and the mother going come to the light like come over so there's a live sort of like dabbling in like is this the end game for Bonnie and a lot of ways both may be physically and also in terms of just like ending the drama being able to confess right and so it's it's left in a way where there's this his final scene with Bonnie at the hospital in this episode where she talked about how she's GonNa make a confession but first she should confess to her mother yeah so we've only got one episode left and it certainly sounds like heading into the finale now? A Bonnie's plan is to confess to the death of took to killing Perry yeah but I mean it's pretty amazing that she also says within her confession to her mother that you know this was really me reacting to you all of these things that you did. I resent at the fact for you treating me this way for not being able to do my homework without you starting a fight for you not hearing me. You're calling me nothing for me settling for a man that I do not and Chicanes Jenny word but it's like yes yes edible caught my worst. Yeah Nathan is not for you yeah yeah so as I mean it was great to hear her just basically trash Nathan even though that was very sad very sad human. That's gotta be an impossible to vocalized especially given all of the trauma she's been through with keeping the secret altogether right but it has made her sort of you know unwind all of these different emotions and seeing her mom sick like this and potentially on her deathbed this brings up a lot of really heavy material yeah and I also noticed we do you see when <hes> Nathan and his their daughter show up to say hi right. After Bonnie wakes up right she pulls her daughter close and who says you know that you're the best daughter in the world or something to that effect that feels very final to me yeah and it might just be a microcosm of her realizing that her mother never said that to her so she wants to be able to impart that sort of like emotional connection <unk> her daughter but it might also be like hey. I'm not going to be around for much longer. I have a larger plan here right and we don't know what that is obviously but you know all directions point to probably a confession of some point all right well. If there's going to be a confession is going to it's going to happen soon and I mean it has to one episode left of big little lies probably ever release. Yeah sorry we couldn't finish this. We ran out of time to tell the story on Mark. The leg off Andrea Arnold she had a great answer but who knows <music>. I'm okay so let's talk about Granada. Oh boy the real the real deal with Granada this week is the situation remains as it is their bankrupt and there's a lot of fallout from the bankruptcy that's going on including. They have to fire the pair or her go and it seems like a very sad thing for Nada. WHO's a little awkward with Renato when she says goodbye yeah kind of find out why we come to vital? Maybe why that's the case you WanNa talk about this so they let go of Granada and Rinat Renato. Let's go they make a big show of it and like we're GonNa make sure we get you a job. That's the most important thing we you would give you the money right now but things are a little tight so we're GonNa make sure you got a job and then we're going to hire you back and she's like hugging her and it's like emotional for her but for the AU pair she's obviously like kind of just loved the money would be great and also I don't think that I'd like to come back back and we cut to the big banks bankruptcy meeting of the creditors and where everything is falling so I did a little reading about this and you and I've luckily never had to file for bankruptcy but yeah it's very lucky that we have an then sorry okay I'm not this is not firsthand knowledge reading a lot about it and usually from from what I understand most creditors don't show up to these meetings so the fact that they have like a pretty full audience of people that are standing up and being like yeah. This person knows me this and this person is that they want their stuff. Yeah want their stuff which shows how much on the hook they are art. Pay People right yeah. There's a Great Vulture Article Upright now that stems from from what happened in this episode from the bankruptcy meaning that the headline is awesome. The headline is Gordon's magnificent big little lies train set cost thirty eighty thousand dollars. I mean we knew it was going to be a high number right Harry ornate. It's a big deep dive into how the train station was made. There's an interview with the production designer John Pino who spoke to them. They worked with a team called the train shack in Burbank but can I read the quote that he said yes of course all right so John Piano says when I was researching man caves made sense that he had a train and enjoyed collecting memorabilia. We wanted to have a really expensive train set in their to show his wealth. What would be something expensive he could lose? I mean it's great. It's Kinda Great. It's sort of great that they set that up. I mean I think at the start of the season right. Why are we seeing Gordon with this train and I mean it's a big big honking prop that you can then Yank away from this guy and I think even though it's like it's a huge visual thing that's being taken away? It really pales in comparison to like the existential crises that are being faced by some of the other characters actors on the show so I sort of love that it's both just like a hilarious to watch him with his train set and him to be like mopey in his man cave and for all of that to represent sort of like the the B._S.. Problems that that he's he's facing relative to other people and if there was any like shred of sympathy or empathy that was starting to develop for a calculate Gordon that wake right out the door knocked out during this pig meeting where the AU pair is there and she wants cancer money and I it's unfortunate that she has to go about getting it this way but clearly like Renato isn't going to offer it up and Gordon what's going to offer it up and she wants a she wants her severance. She wants she's owed and she adds to that number. I I think it's something like sixty thousand dollars what she describes as stress management other services rendered aches and we're not as like what what are you talking about and Gordon's like you see Gordon like looking at at the general <unk>. Don't say that they do. It and I don't think that we need to talk about what the stress management is the fact that she may be something that would be around in somebody's diary potential being compensated for that <hes> those services rendered is very troubling. I mean they is very troubling things so troubling Gordon you've done messed up you messed up you messed up. It's so troubling and then like the car and Gordon's trying to explain it and then Renata Oughta has a great great lower earn moment it is very cartoony. It's absolutely a whole lot of tissues. Hold out. All this Kleenex shoved it in his mouth after she tells them to shut up forever. Do not speak leak Outta. What does she like? You're a little weasley mouth or whatever she says to him. I forget exactly what the quotas but she's just like. You'll troll shot up. Forever didn't laugh. It's real well. It's very sad it's very upsetting but the beauty of the of the Renata character and Laura dern performances that she's just she so extreme so it's it's hard not to have like your first reaction just to be cracking up at like the magnitude magnitude of the way she like a release in a way because I think a lot of the other scenes that were watching a really intense and require a lot of focus for both the viewer and obviously the subject matter at at hand hand but when you see Renata fly off the handle. It's like a great release for a lot of people I get my laughs out then and then I'm able to focus on what's happening next right yeah sure for sure so that's not a you know that's all going to have to resolve in some way shape or form next week. I hope we set up with we don't divorce men. They screw us over and we stay with them and that's just what we do. I hope that that line from a few episodes back is in there because we're not a will turn the corner by being like Yo Gordon you're done. It's over you're don. I'm starting over because I I would. I would hate for this to end with the two of them together. He's just awful. There's nothing redeemable about this guy. Yeah absolutely Tony Almeida was right to kill him in two thousand four hundred twenty four spoiler for season and that was many many years ago madeline. Let's Talk Madeline who usually pretty early on but there's not a ton of goes on with her specifically in this episode. It seems like maybe she and Ed are starting to trend upward. Things seem like they're moving in the right direction. She has that moment where she's wedding wearing the wedding dress. She's like it doesn't fit really well. We're not gonNA talk about that. which I thought was really thought it was great and she's like she's dancing around and Ed who I in the moment in the way that Adam Scott was playing? I didn't know exactly where it was going to go. This is going to be like because this was after he'd had his meeting with Tori Bachman which was just say he had a meeting with Tori Bachman Joseph's wife follow up from the bar hang out yeah where they have their bar hang out at the end of last week. I still don't understand like Joseph was there as well and it's only nurse floated the idea and that she was like we should meet for coffee. Talk about it. Morally it seems as though there has been a proposal and indecent proposal good for for there to be some fornication some some some stuff stuff happening between Tori and ED. She's like really into you like not as revenge attack is never been lanes of like time means. We didn't stand here in take that that Joe and matter like we're doing it. One hundred from a bad situation is already created seems like this was like a divine from some therapy that she's been going through that she and her husband have been going through and she's like bringing this over to Ed being like quality you go to the same therapist. Do I wonder if there's only one therapist in Monterey so very waikele very likely that this is from the same from therapist calamity Jane. I want you to talk to the other spouses. You know you need you to figure this out. I have a big idea and I just want you to chew on it here me out spouse swab just hear me out just air me out deleted scene which is a journal of theoretical. Yes we should call it. A masturbation diary is what we will call it. She talks about the masturbation diary and the bucket list. You're right at the top the bucket list. I'm very into you and if we like if we don't like this then it's done but let's face it. We're going to like and doing it again and just like Oh man. This is weird. I was like man I really wish Nathan was walking by to say something stupid. Media Use the Nathan distraction right about now so that's where we are in big little lies is. We're getting until like this kind of territory. We don't really see how he responds to the proposal but we do see that Ed like so you know what what we were saying before. Is that Madeleine his home. She's dancing around her wedding dress and it's really trying even though she's trying telling him the truth about the Monterey five related stuff anyway that was going to go home and be like yeah. You've really lost ended up just like I can't do this and also I have like a like a kind of sort of threesome offer on the table and I gotta take it dangerous liaisons Dino. I think I'm GONNA maybe go for that but he doesn't. He says I told you before there's no flash that we can do and I can just forget everything but this is pretty close. I thought that was a sweet. I hope that they're going to be okay but there is earlier in the episode where we're ed says to madeline like. I feel like we're making progress. I felt like the window was starting to clear up but right now. I'm sensing some kind of bog because it feels like they're still something you're not telling me. In Madeline goes to Renata to be like I wanNA tell ed about the lie which is no. There's no logical reason feels character. What we were just saying earlier about the interstitial scenes where it's paint-by-numbers that feels like one to for me well feels like it just felt very odd because like Granada's still calls her madel line which is not a hurt or non at that level of closeness? They're trying it still doesn't make sense as the next move like they're just not that level of closeness of all the people like she would sooner talk to Jane. Frankly she hasn't had a lot of interaction with this season which is when you think about it and the spray with I thinking about that. That's kind of disappointing because they were so close season one after Tom's untimely death well that this isn't a coffee shop being taken under water. This might be like maybe this would be like a moment for for them to connect or for for Madeline and bonding to connect although I guess like part of the point is that they're still should be this wedge between between Madeline and bonding. I mean we didn't even talk about the fact that they they were really. You know sort of snippy with each other yeah. They were right where they were. That was bad. I guess maybe thinking about it. A little more Rinat make sense if she's like if in Madeleine's mind she's as the most readily available Celestis with what she is going through. This is triggering for gene so she wants to give Jane some space and she and Bonnie clear we still don't get along that well. Her and Renata are closer certainly than they were before for end the additional thing there could be that like maybe she knows that she needs to be talked out of this and Renato probably the person who's GonNa talk her out of it. If you WANNA go on way to justify but you know one episode left got imagined that the truth comes out how Ed receives the truth whether or not he's like. I can't believe you lied to me about that or if he recognizes like wow you've been living with that. That is a horrible thing and I'm here for you. I think you kind of see cutting is away. My instinct point is that Ed in the end will be supportive of Madeline but we'll find out not much more to report on the husband front. We've talked about Gordon. We've talked about Ed and the diary keeping that he may or may not begin to do you. There's very little Nathan here. I'd completely missed them. I didn't realize your notes are so good for episode. No sign of Nathan harass when I wrote in in my notes so you said you saw Nathan. I didn't even see he stops stops by. The hospital. Really quickly greatly says anything we says anything is great episode shirt that looks like it shortens his torso a little favorite look for I think this is probably my least favorite episode of big little lies coming into this podcast but now realizing that there was very little Nathan a maybe it's. Maybe it's trending upwards Nathan for you. Yes less Nathan for me is good. Let's get into some feedback emily. I I think now's the time to get into some feedback before we do take a quick moment to thank our sponsor for this episode of the PODCAST and we're back here for big little lies where backyard lovely folks over at Sun Basket indeed no matter what you like to eat sun basket makes it easy they have Paleo carb conscious gluten free Mediterranean diabetes friendly and and Vegan meal plans. 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It was actually it was I'm feeling like a little more resilient zillion older more confident in my cooking abilities Fox pretty soon you and I will be able to have a chopped competition in in our apartment. We're GONNA be able to go head to head and I will lose. Maybe I won't be quite quite as much of a slam dunk all right now. Sun Basket has a special promotion for PLO show recaps listeners for up to sixty dollars off thirty dollars off your first to delivery this really good deal. It's a pretty good deal. It's a pretty great deal. If it means putting meal planning on autopilot you can also again on some lunch planning to because Sun Basket offers up five minutes salad mixes for an easy lunch and it's going to help you eat clean and feel great sun basket makes it easy and convenient to cook healthy delicious meals at home. No matter how much experience you have in the kitchen and to repeat I have very little and I'm doing just fine with Sun Basket. It's been great everything is pre-measured and easy to prep you can get a healthy and delicious meal on the table in as little as fifteen minutes so put meal planning on autopilot pilot with this special offer go to Sun Basket Dot com slash post to get up to sixty dollars once again. That's sun basket dot com slash post to learn more about this limited time sixty dollar off special special alright some feedback lowland in the feedback this week but that's because we're recording relatively close to after the episode Aired Aka a Monday morning which is like very normal time to be talking about all right just get to awesome is sorry I'm so sorry Humby humby chimes in he goes Holy Shit so let's just going for a WHO and how Perry's brother died right she has to so that is Humvees prediction for what we're going to get from Celeste I win. Celeste Cross Examines Mary Louise in the season possibly series finale. I mean yeah. That's pretty viable angle that. She should've told her attorney about rather than she doing it herself but yeah. I'm there for it so we think that's Celeste is going to step up to the plate and she's going to she's going to be Tom Cruise versus Jack Nicholson in few good men and she's GonNa get Mary Louise To admit to the Code Red. Did you order the Code Reggie. God Damn Right I did. That's the moment we're going the beginning for Mary. Louise here in big little lies season finale. I want the truth. You can't amble the truth so we'll see if everybody can handle the truth. This was an exactly feedback but it was a twitter thread that I noticed that I wanted to shout out <hes> once again cousin John John Denver D- John Road and said this trial is so unrealistic she would never be this unprepared no matter what especially for the money she's spending xactly great Brennan Fitzpatrick had replied to that as well. He said this whole episode feels pretty off like like we missed an episode inbetween this week and last week Brett Hallam. Oh I'm sorry I'm going to butcher your name. Every time I pronounce it. He says also there's zero ability to recreate a fall or push. This is just dumb. We didn't even talk about but the fact that they have like a three D. rendering falling and it's like if fell only fall here but if he was pushed you would fall this far. I don't know certainly but I don't know technology for such thing I I don't know what is possible emily but it felt like fairly fancy for for custody hearing to be trotting fishing right but it does. I think it was kind of annoying annoying when the attorney was like wow so this was like a lot harder than we anticipated and I want to be like no. It wasn't like this for the all of the things that were brought up. We're we're fair game. I knew that they were going to go for the guttural so like it doesn't really always me the judge killer sorry to figure out what you were doing now. I got no. You're you're fired. No of course we knew that Mary Louise had it in her to do it. She's been hanging out with Quinlan like they. They are going to exploit every single piece of information about Celeste to you know favor Mary. You Know Mary Louise. That's just what's going to happen so the fact that her attorney was like really surprising like no it's not. I do think that we've determined that attorney warriors garbage one of the garbage people of Monterey garbage suggestion could find human. I'm sure she's fine. She just needs to bring the same kind of like cutthroat resolve. I don't know she's just a vampire outmatched. The Vampire King of Louisiana. I replied over IRA fiber. I refer is really really solid as an attorney aren't even know what her name is but but I doubt it's as good as a wreck Arbor Leo rule forever the Prophet of little lies always on the money had had more of an observation this week Renata finding at her husband was screwing the nanny for so many years was terrifying terrifying and hilarious at the same time like a very on point observation that like the way that it came out. You couldn't help laugh but then you think about it a little harder to wake. That's so messed up. All of that is so messed stop. This man should be thrown into the trash but this man in the trash track the ass of the trash dump in there yeah grinder urine. You're redeeming qualities. The more we sort of <hes> you know an unveil forever he could shut up forever. Gordon usually try these. X.'s should have been used to eat girls so so mad and she should be she ripe. We should be terrible and I hope for nothing but the worst for him in the season for the worst well. Maybe not the worst. I don't have much positive feeling towards him for the talk. Amy Larue rights and do you think Corey is the private I who took the photos of Celeste Mary Louise so we do see in one of the very first scenes at the episode gene coming to corn being like. Are you a cop and he's I'm definitely not but what if he is and what if he's he's just lined us in line to her. We don't really know anything about him. Otherwise I'm GONNA guess not because I feel like it would then like what what. What are we going to do in the finale? We're going to get a moment of course like okay so you know I thought I wasn't a cop. I am I am coming. That just seems lazy. It just feels like we didn't need to go through just like in that scene like if he's been caught like just like go with the fact that he's been caught because it doesn't really affect things one way or the other too much. If we know then versus we know next week. I don't think yeah so. I'm GONNA guess he's not GonNa guests that whoever is like the private I it's just like one of the many branches of the detective Quinlan Apparatus man with a goatee Groucho Marx glasses like who knows who knows what it is. Let's wrap up here with Dave Baker who wrote who wrote in and said predictions for the finale and we would you like to get into a predictions draft with me. This is something that would do enjoy doing here on the post show recaps and draft okay draft so what what will do is we'll do it. We'll do it a snake AAC draft. We'll do it or maybe we can call like a big Sur draft because it's whiny like snake in in big Sur anyway <hes> so the way that it'll it'll work and Lee is you will have the first pick where you make a prediction for what's going to happen happened in the finale than I will make to predictions than you will make predictions. I'll make one final prediction and we'll have three predictions each and whoever wins the prediction draft has to has to buy the other person a thirty thousand dollar train sir. I don't want to train so we don't have space for that. How about a thirty thirty cent train sticker? How about how about season of Thomas the train how about this how about anything having to to do with the train that is thirty dollars in under and you can be as created a metro? Don't that could be Schroeck. Tell me we'll find out reveal the grand prize in in the feedback show thirty dollar Max wchs and it's gotta be at least in some way shape or form related to a traffic timing for our anniversary. I know I said you getting your ears leaned. Out was a great this'll be gift but maybe this can be compounded with that. All right. I'm with Fox. First prediction for the season finale of big little lies what you got awning dies. Fani dies right off the board. Bonnie dies is a pretty dramatic development for the first pick what if she just goes swimming and that's what this is all about. No we've been back and forth on this a lot. I don't think body's GonNa die. I think that's too extreme but but okay Bonnie dies goes off the board right away. I have to back to back picks. My first prediction is there is going to be some sort of commiseration between between Nathan and Ed then. We're going to get an a Nathan and Ed seen what a boring prediction. It's a boring is safe in all APP to it that I think that it is going to be the worst scene of Nathan decide. They need to sleep together and order like rectify their marriages. I mean Matt with that would be interesting. I don't. I don't expect that that is what's going on my diary for so long. It's I'm going to pick that as number one that there's going to be some sort of really terrible at a Nathan scene where they're like. You're not so bad. Maybe we're not so bad or maybe won't even articulate like that but there's going to be like scum measuring. He's between the two okay so now that's my first pick and I get a second prediction. Pick my second prediction is Renova much like like eleven towards Mike Wheeler is going to dump Gordon's ass. I think that there is going to be divorced. I think it's going to be I think it's the end of the Nara for Renata Gordon in season finale. Okay Okay Granada Gordon break-up. That's what I'm putting on on the on the docket okay. What do you think I think that I'm right? Do you think I got a point there. Yeah probably think of doing so far. Well you spell Gordon wrong. They just want you can hear the typing probably Casper. I'm trying to just do it. Don't talk about the no taking the annotation process out of it. Okay all right my necklace reporting chase around so you can see my businesses is terrible rebel terrible all right. My addiction is Mary. Louise will not get custody of the twins okay. That's a good prediction okay and I'm GONNA type hype it out everybody so you'll hear it. Mary Louise Mary Louise which I've spoiled. Mario please apparently is not getting custody of the children. Okay down. I like that. I think that you've got a point on the board. I'm hoping that you only have one so far but I think one on the board. I think that's a pretty clean prediction. Okay vinyls no pressure but this is your big one. What if AH chain moves away with vig sad clown when I think that's a good prediction right wake that gene? Jane Moves Away with Z.. Ah She's like. I can't be friends with more. She's like this place is do crazy and I just can't be here. Also Corey is weird and I need to leave Corey. Yeah okay all right your turn Wina one one final prediction <hes> okay <hes> we will find out that Perry's brother's death is indeed. Mary Louise Fault R._I.. Mary Louise will be responsible danceable. She married Louise. Try and type. This out cleanly was responsible. I said responsible responsible for Perry's brothers Nebr- others. There's an end in front of brother Nebraska death okay all right so it's reset emily. Thanks Bonnie is going to die that Mary Louise is not getting custody of the children in that Jane will move away with Ziggy my first prediction. I didn't even finish typing hang out but I remember is that loss at a plus end that there's going to be an edit Nathan reconciliation on it'd be terrible and boring not in Gordon or Gore Dom as I wrote they are. They're going to go to split Seville. They're gonNA SPLIT SKI AND WE'RE WE'RE GONNA find out that Mary Louise is responsible for Perry's brother's death. We didn't even weigh in on we'll edit madeline. Make it yes or no probably I wish I could take as as a tiebreaker. How about this tiebreaker? I'll just say no. I'll say no as a tiebreaker so this is the tiebreaker we both draw three or an even score. I can't wait to take the subway with thirty dollars. That's not necessarily what I'm going to get you. You don't get to dictate what get for you. I have to get you a thirty up to thirty dollars gift. That has something to do with a train. I get very creative with family just ever no not not particularly excited initiative on your you should be knickknack. You should be excited for made lose. I've got some great ideas. It's very good ideas. I will reveal in the in the wrap up all right back. Show at the end of the season just two more episodes of big little lies podcast and one episode left of big little lies season two and very likely one episode left a big little is over all your feedback for next week we wanted Po show recaps dot com slash feedback feedback between us at Poche recaps. I'm at Ron Howard. Emily's at Emmett subscribe to what we are doing here on post show so recaps however you subscribe to your podcasts you can also subscribe to our big little is only feed Porsche recaps dot com slash big little lies. Your ratings reviews all that greatly appreciated next week's episode of the season finale. I'm weights called. I want to know I want to know it is possible I help but that's a prediction. What is that song play? We've already done. We've done all the guys that can be off the record predicts. We'll look at you. You get like forty if you if you do that that's eighty bucks or D._W._A.'s double up shake shake do you have I can't do it. I can't I try to get lonely island code in somewhere every time I haven't this. Do you have a prediction for attack. This on what's the final image of big little is going to be crashing waves yet. I was going to the same thing so oceans Shenanigans Booker there will me something with water or the sky and like a really like Raziq Keno interval just playing over and over again like some sort of like this we stick version of the theme song or the or the piano stuff khloe her ipod that'd be great. Yeah only wants NAP. We're KHLOE. She's got like no role in this poor everybody right. I mean we're all we're all doing great okay. That's it that's it. That's all I've got. Well see you later. We'll be back next week.

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206 - The Strange Kidnapping of Patty Hearst

Timesuck with Dan Cummins

2:07:55 hr | 1 year ago

206 - The Strange Kidnapping of Patty Hearst

"Today we dissect the OH. So strange kidnapping and subsequent criminal activities committed along with her captors of Patty Hearst Aka Patricia Hearst Aka the daughter of Randolph Hearst Aka the granddaughter of one of the richest men on Earth when he was alive William Randolph hearst. Patty came from so much privilege. She was someone who knew from the moment you could comprehend what money was and what it can do for you that she would personally never want for cash that her financial needs would always be taken care of things to immense family wealth. She lived a sheltered life free from worries and struggles most of the world faces and have always faced at least she did until she was kidnapped at the age of nineteen by these Symbionese Liberation Army a group of Berkeley radicals led by Donald to freeze born into almost opposite circumstances Patricia in Donald's lives would collide when Donald had formed a group of radical militants with some friends. He met in prison decided to kidnap Patty in an attempt to make her wealthy family feed. The hungry of San Francisco a step towards the destruction of what he saw as an evil oppressive American society built on capitalistic greed. Donald wanted to start a revolution and he saw kidnapping the air to a media empire is being a big step towards kick in that shit off and while the revolution. Ever came, it wasn't due to lack of effort. There was no joke. They executed hearst kidnapping with ruthless efficiency and carried out murders, robberies and bombings and Patty hearst not long after her kidnapping began to help commit some of these crimes people around the world watched in awe as the strange story unfolded after patties kidnapping his days turn to weeks and weeks turned into months. They washed his patty. Transition from pleading for her family to bring her home to blaming her family for many of society's ills and telling the world that the La was a noble organization. She was proud to be a soldier within this organization Patricia denounced her family and multiple recorded messages that were played for all of America over the radio claim that she had evolved into comrade of the Revolutionary Force to fight fascists. Why did you do this a psychological condition known as Stockholm Syndrome May, be to blame. It Patty truly enjoy being a member of the SA a sheltered rich girl living life on the wild side is many acclaimed or had her captors truly truly brainwashed her this week we're gonNA talk about some socially turbulent times. The seventies when a bunch of young people cross America outdid themselves to prove who could be the most radical the most militant the most shocking. We're GONNA talk about bombs and FBI raids will detail who patty hearst was who her kidnappers were and will follow her kidnapping and following crimes free as leads into the first trial of the century windy stop being a hostage and start being a member of the gang. Trying to answer this question and more on today's radical militant communist is shit easy bojangles addition of time times. This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to time suck. was. Happy Monday mates sex. Welcome to the cult of the curious you beautiful bastards. He'll Nimrod I'll see my dreams lives Athena. Praise bojangles glory be to triple. M. May yacht rock tour soon, be allowed to once more sailed to sonic season bring their live music to the people. I'm Dan coming suck nasty the masters sucker owner proprietor of skywalker ranch. anti-cull. Coca leader and you're listening to time suck a quick couple messages for stand up comedy fans. I have a new standard. Everywhere you get albums these days, Pandora spotify Itunes, Amazon. It's CETERA. It's called live in Denver afresh recording from right before covid shutdown stand up There's a lot of my favorite bids perform was zero profanity hundred percent safe for everyone. No matter how prudish. WanNa play something some some mixed company of mine worry a lot less about offending anyone. This is the album to play as opposed to say the fish suck or or any other standup album I have showbiz no peanut butter on this one bimbos back hats. So there's that excited to have at least one album to prove to people that I can be funny. If I you know one clean I don't have to be dirty as you just enjoyed. some bad news following my agents advise all of my remaining twenty twenty toxic dot stand up tour dates have been moved to next year. Please, contact venues directly for refunding transfer policies it just simply too hard in the current environment, not knowing what areas are going to be locked down and win things keep changing so fast and I don't want to go out on the road be stuck away from my family stuck away from the podcast studio here start missing episodes I, struggle to get home I don't WanNa end up stuck across the country for two weeks because my temperature spikes at the airport and now I, can't catch my flight back to Court Elaine back to spokane and then and then driving over recoiling you get an A. and I. also just You know I don't WanNa perform in a room full of masks I WANNA see your faces I wanna know if you're smiling or scowling. You know a lot of lot of standard for me is Kinda. You know reading the room and engaging the cadence and the tempo a little bit based on that. Shift, my content, but you know I, feed off of what I see body language is not just laughs. Come back and I. I. Just I don't know. It just sounds like a nightmare and I've talked a bunch of comic friends and they say not fun. Not Not. Fun To do stand up in the current Club environment. Some hoping shit clears up by two, thousand, twenty one and the tour. All the dates are already lined up. Our everything's been moved there should be replacement as for all the dates I was going to do in twenty twenty and really really fingers crossed hoping it's going to happen optimistic. It will sorry again, if this messed up your plans and thanks for continuing to listen to me podcast 'cause I do love this as well. Okay. So also got some new hats in the store bad magic MERCH DOT COM check those out. No Frankenstein sized hats. That will fit like a giant headline at the moment but has the will fit nine percent. Thanks to Logan. Keith art warlock for make him look Oh so good. And and last thing before diving in today's story is set mainly in central California and heart goes out that thousands of people recently displaced by so many crazy fucking fires going on. Man's crazy storms out in the midwest crazy fires on top of everything else this year I'm recording this on Thursday August twentieth. Hopefully, by the time you hear it, these fires are contained. Now, let's get to suck in one hell of a tail. Not, a ton of setup needed for this one, but but decent amount info we're going to go over before we get into the time line we will jump at the time line to get You know feel for cultural events that that lead to SLA's creation kidnapping a hearse demo follow the group's exploits right up to the eventual deaths, a members and incarceration of others will cover patties life and timeline from the time she was kidnapped up until the present day I though I want to feel for hearst family's fortune right? The her family and in who donald the freeze was and why he formed the SLA. It's important to know the M-. The kind of money the Patricia hearst came from on February Twentieth Nineteen Fifty Four Patricia Campbell hearst was born in San Francisco the third of five daughters of Randolph appleton hearst and Catherine Wood Campbell. and. Her and I basically did have the exact same childhood in so many ways while most parents, the nineteen fifties read the newspaper attended the movies, visit museums, patio parents printed the newspapers, created movies and established museums. Normal families voted for or against politicians patio those politicians over for dinner. So same. Her parents were in charge of a media empire. My Mom were two grocery store that did sell some magazines she grew up in a mansion. mainly. Trailers in apartments tomato tomato. She grew up in the bay area full of museums and concerts and culture, and the Hustle and bustle of a major metropolis and I grew up in a small town in Idaho. County. There was the butt of jokes for most people living and other small Idaho County talents because we were even smaller and more backwards than they were She had hired help serving her five course meals I had either whatever my grandparents were cooking at night or had to make my own ham and cheese hot pockets or readers cheese burritos. We both had pools. So okay, that's pretty cool. Sure. Hers was in grounds and heated an enormous and cleaned by professionals in mine came in a box and k. mart and was literally never cleaned not even one time until the garden hose. Then last long because me and my friends ripped to fucking hole thin plastic wall and water poured out and turn part of the art into a swamp real met basically though we live the same life separated only by time just socioeconomic status. I can't relate to her childhood on any level she grew up in so much wealth patty the grew up in just about the highest level of privilege one could grow up in. Northern California's is saying a lot for an area that consistently ranks as one of the top three most expensive city to live in an entire night like like if you grow up part of the elite class of San Francisco, you're going to be part of the elite class pretty much fucking anywhere. You know it's very different than be like one of the wealthiest families in elko Nevada which might not mean shit in in the bay area looking back patty would describe her childhood as really pretty. Perfect. To quote really pretty perfect How many can say that she grew up primarily in the suburb of Hillsborough attended it's crystal Spring School for Girls in the Santa Catalina School in Monterey. Sure both of schools were very similar December high school and junior high right and in school. Teachers you know. she didn't briefly attended the tiny private Menlo College in Atherton California, thirty miles south of San Francisco Atherton known for being one of the wealthiest towns per capita. If not, the wealthiest in America it has the most expensive zip code an entire us. If you WanNa go to Menlo College, it has less than eight hundred total undergraduates. You need a lot of don't. Orlando loans and scholarships tuition alone is forty-five grade of the year. And increasing by couple of thousand every year and you're not gonNA find a cheap place to rent in that area about it is about six grand cheaper than Harvard Nyu if you're looking for a deal. I transferred to the University of California Berkeley, a school her family had very deep connections with several buildings on campus named after various hers family members because they've given so much damn money to the school over the years. There's the hearst memorial mining building the hearst field annex the hearst Jim Pool hearst tennis courts, the Phoebe, a hearst museum of anthropology. phoebe is Patties great-grandma will meet her in a bit. So let's let's examine. How wealthy Patty's family is in was. Short answer superwealthy like unbelievably wealthy like I'm proud of driving around a nice not fully loaded but not a base model two, thousand, sixteen, F one, fifty, a little bit of window tinting. leveling kit custom wheels. I. Like it at very much. The heirs to the hearst family could each pay someone to buy brand new fully loaded F one, fifty right drive it off the lot straight to a fucking junkyard and just have destroyed. They could do that every single day for an entire year and just not noticed a difference in the lifestyle. As of two thousand sixteen the most recent year we could find the list we were looking for the hearst family was the ninth richest family in the US with around twenty, eight, billion dollars worth of assets. Fully loaded new GONNA. Set you back about seventy five grant. If the hers family used their fortune to buy nothing but loaded F. One fifties, they could by roughly four, hundred, thousand of them. Or. Eight, thousand, ten, million dollar homes where did all this money come from the used to be even more wealthy than this actually the hearst corporation traces, its roots to one of the richest men of his era William. Randolph hearst, Patty's grandfather but the money didn't start with a Willie Randy. Willie Randy. was born rich son of another very wealthy man named George Hirst phoebe husband. A Patricia Great Grandpa George was a very successful American businessmen minor and politician born in eighteen twenty. And, George was not born into money. He's really where it starts. He was born very much a part of America's working class George Hirst was born near Present Day Sullivan Missouri, just under seventy miles southeast of Saint Louis. Children of Scots, Irish immigrants is grandfather was taken off a boat and onto American soil as a small child in seventeen, sixty, six numerous family members were granted farmland in the colony of south. Carolina. George grew up on a farm. One of three children grow up in a log cabin in Franklin County. No AC no central see no heat other than the law though with the stove. His education consisted of some some elementary school. nothing else not quite like a Menlo college or UC Berkeley level of education. George like his parents before him became Missouri farmer but he wasn't content with just farming. He wanted gold as gold in them hills, kind of gold. On eighteen twenty, nine, hundred was nine years old. There was a huge gold rush and Appalachian Mountains, of Georgia, by the way, and that word is to prevent emails I I did a little extra deep dive in on Appalachian Appalachian both totally acceptable people who live in the Appalachian or Appalachian Mountains say the word both ways. by eighteen, forty, most of the gold to be. In Georgia at least with eighteen forty mining tools was gone by eight and forty eight prospectors were flooding to California. They're heading West for some major strikes two years earlier. Eighteen, forty, six, Georgia's father died at age twenty, six became the head of the family interested in mining since he was a kid, he did a little bit of money locally not enough to improve his fortune and some substantial way. But enough to get a taste for how much the right strike could increase your fortune and enough to realize he was good at it. He had a knack for it. He was a man with a nose for valuable minerals. He did take off for California in eighteen fifty once the family was nice and set Missouri arriving near Sutter's mill on the American river over forty miles east of Sacramento he didn't find much his first winter west. He moved forty miles north after that to the grass valley and made a decent living run courts, mines ranching, and running a general store for decade wasn't wealthy yet but doing well. Then in the summer of eighteen, fifty nine, he buys a one six interest in the Oh for silver mine near Virginia City. Nevada. Super Cool. Little western town if you ever can swing through it. I love that little town and then the following winter thirty, eight tons of silver or are taken out of that mine. It produced a profit of ninety one thousand dollars close to three million in today's dollars just at first winner, which means I made the equivalent of half a million in any made that you know quick and you use that money to buy more shares of claims in mind such as the Ontario Silver Mine in Park, City, Utah the Anaconda mine in Butte Montana. He didn't just take that initial money and walkaway hoard it like some would have done. I could have done that but if he did, he would have never become wealthy you might have been well off but now wealthy instead of wealthy people do he invested his first big score in in chances to hit more big scores calculated risks and he did hit more and more big scores. Then in eighteen sixty two, he returned to Missouri at the age of forty two to be with his dying mother, and while back at home, he married nineteen year old phoebe Anderson, a local teacher known to have the nicest ass and all of Franklin county she was known by more people as sweet cheeks than she was by her birth name phoebe was a pagan nudist which was unusual for that part of Missouri at that time and many things she put a witch spell on George to convince him to marry her. and. Of course stuff I said after local teacher was true I know nothing. About notoriety or lack there of phoebe budgets I'm I'm guessing she would be shocked an appalled disgusted. If you heard me say that Georgia probably challenged me to do you know defender on her Eighteen sixty to the nation was engulfed in civil war and George decided to skip it. He Sweet Jake's kidding phoebe turn their eyes away from the strife of north versus south and just headed back West to continue building his fortune. They settled in San Francisco had their only child William Randolph hearst a Willa Randy in eighteen sixty three George continued to reinvest his money. He found a number of mining operation including the highly successful homestake mine in the Black Hills a South Dakota that mind didn't stop producing golden till two, thousand, one this this one mine. One of many George would own at least a large percentage of produce more than forty million troy ounces of gold during his lifetime. Gold was just over two thousand dollars an ounce, the other day forty, million ounces times two, thousand that's eighty billion dollars. George also began a career in politics shortly after returning west, he was elected to the California state assembly in eighteen, sixty, four one of a dozen men represent San Francisco in eighteen eighty he bought the San Francisco Examiner or if you believe the legend, he wanted gambling. So it was given to him to cover some gambling debts. This'll become the flagship of the hearst media empire, George himself never really care about it never really be a a big newspaper, Guy His. Son Oh, Shit. Georgia's appointed to be a US senator in eighteen, eighty six to fill a vacancy, and later that year is elected as a Democrat have remained a senator until his death in eighteen, ninety one and also puts on Willie Randolph in charge of the examiner in eighteen, eighty, seven, four years before his death and what's phoebe doing during all this living luxuriously she's traveled around Europe trouble on numerous times beginning eighteen, seventy three she's split time between a variety of lavish hearst homes in the bay area he's spoiled Little Willie Randy. George would say about his son, there's only one thing that's sure about my boy when wants cake he wants cake and he wants it now and I noticed that after a while it gets the cake. Nice noise who doesn't want that kind of childhood kind. We always get the fucking cake. Phoebe all sorts of buildings for various educational uses. As you already know, she became a major benefactor to the university of California Berkeley. She served as its first female regent, remaining on the board from eighteen ninety seven until her death in nineteen nineteen. Now, let's look and see how Paddy's GRANDPA Willie Randy took the hearst fortune to even greater heights than his father. first before he started building fourteen party is ass off at Harvard and waste of his parents money young really hurts was expelled after two years of college for antics ranging from sponsoring massive beer parties in Harvard Square. Descending Chamber Pots Aka Turbbach it's to his professors with their images drawn into the bottom of the bowls. Pretty sweet spoiled asshole rich kid or American hero maybe both. I love to go into great detail regarding how he transformed his father's newspaper into national media empire. But that would. Require, a second Willie himself, which probably do one of these days This particular hearst also played a large part in the criminalization of marijuana in America. Is a bit of a Belen using his vast media empire to publish a lot of reefer madness propaganda bullshit that's for another day. the short version of how he grew. His money further is by nineteen twenties after taking control of the examiner in eighteen eighty seven, which was actually struggling when he took it over Willie Randy own the first nationwide media chain which included Harper's Bazaar The New York Morning Journal good housekeeping. His Empire became notorious for its quote unquote yellow journalism talked about this a bit in my Ted Talk Yellow. Journalism is sensationalist lurid style of reporting the kind that were just used to. Now the majority of journalism now is I would say yellow journalism less emphasis on fact more emphasis on opinion spin extreme you know eye-catching headlines. Because this new more entertaining style of presenting the news hearst publications attained an unprecedented amount of circulation at its height is estimated that one in five Americans were reading hers papers, every Fucking Day. William would also invest in radio movies and television in Nineteen Zero three to thirty, four year old Hurst Mary. The twenty year old millicent Veronica Wilson millicent will give birth to five sons George Randolph hearst William Randolph Hurst. Junior John Randolph I just love rotate in the same names. He's Eagle Maniacs and then the twins randolph another end up at Persson hearst and David Whitmire hearst. Randolph Appleton is patty hearst father was born in Nineteen fifty. Let's talk about his dad more the by nine hundred, twenty-five, her album required newspapers in every section of the United States as well as several magazines. He published books produced movies. Then in the nineteen twenties, he built a grandiose castle on a two hundred and forty thousand acre. Ranch. On the California coast in San San Simone California, two hundred and forty miles south of San Francisco. He furnished his residential complex with a vast collection of antiques and art objects. The bought in Europe a playwright, George Bernard Shaw famously described Castle as the place God would have built. If he'd had the money, it is not one hundred, fifteen rooms thirty eight bedrooms over forty bathrooms a theater, a beauty salon, a giant indoor Rome until giant outdoor pools, and it originally sat on three hundred, seventy, five square miles of private land. Everything was made custom for it. Now, this isn't fucking particle board. This is like exotic marble. Crazy expensive materials at the peak of his fortune in nineteen thirty, five Willie fucking Randy owned twenty eight major newspapers, eighteen magazines, several radio stations, movie companies. New Services. The Great Depression of the Nineteen Thirties would seriously weaken his financial position, but he would rebound you know in the in the forties and then he died in one, thousand, nine, fifty, one to age eighty, eight and Patricia's father Randolph. I was the last surviving of his five boys and the one that would inherit his father's vast fortune when Randolph died in two thousand and his estate was. Valued at one point, eight, billion dollars. So you know I, it wasn't as big as it was at one time but still billionaires the Modern Day corporation which owns forty-six newspapers three hundred and forty magazines around the globe as valuable stakes and cable channels like ESPN lifetime a-a-any it's currently chaired by William Randolph hearst the third guy love to keep the name, his family. Patty second cousin. Her father's cousin's son. The hearst corporation is the rare private corporation with over ten billion dollars in annual revenue. Okay. So sorry for the detour there. But an important part of the story is why the SLA chose to kidnapped Patty hearst they chose her because in the bay area, her name was synonymous with extreme wealth old money. If you're a communist revolutionary type living in the bay area, you know all about the her family and they represent to you the worst of capitalistic greed. Now let's talk about these people who oppose capitalism especially, the kind of capitalism I practice and when I say posed I mean committed to committing serious fucking violence and what law enforcement deemed domestic terrorism easy bojangles easy. So now as we talk about communism, all right, you know that good what calm calm down. Painting the decade of the seventies with broad strokes. Yes. Mentioned an economic depression, an oil crisis. the end of the flower child era, and for many of those former flower children a descent into drugs and various colts for many. The seventies wasn't nonstop late night disco parties fuelled by Coke in quotes for some was, they must've had fucking blast great but for many with an uncertain, even exceedingly pessimistic time. Tim Finley. San Francisco Chronicle and rolling, stone. the man who discovered the identities of the Simbi. Symbionese there you. Take me second few times that word the semi's liberation. Army said this of the Nineteen Seventies in San? Francisco. The mid seventy s the antiwar movement beginning to climb simply because Vietnam War was ending. There was less and less the mass movement going on in Berkeley and more concentrated sales people within Berkeley, who live in adult lifestyle. In order to be part of this past and Berkeley you gain status by being more revolutionary than the other guy by having that superior compassion motivated a lot of people. There had been a change in direction the civil rights movement because identified more with empowering racial differences rather than melting them rather than integrating society. And there was developing at that time as well as far more ideological slant. Relatively innocent movement. If. You look back to such things as the weather underground in nineteen, sixty eight. They did not attack the tuition's in order to kill people around people or what have you. They attacked institutions as Sabah tour's. As a resistance against the war and against the power of the establishment to had. It's awesome fun behind that. Some good feedback and last week sound bits. Makes a little stories little more entertaining a moment he'll. whereas the ethos of the sixties counterculture in San Francisco had been about civic participation marching for civil rights protesting at citizens that sort of thing seventies was all about who could be the most radical this attitude was held partly due to political motivations probably to stave off the existential dread of confronting the country that had just come out of a war with no victors and it come into an economic depression and partly you know just to just look Cooman can you dig it? Has Everything copacetic with you. With Me Jive. Turkey. A revolution coming. It's going to be Donald Mike out of sites. So do me a salad and get a right right on right on right on. Catch on the flip side you know that kind of thing. And race to see who could be the most revolutionary one of the stars of today's Suck Donald. David freeze was a front runner. Let's meet this crazy son of a bitch. To freeze was the founder of the radical group that would go on a big crime bender nineteen, seventy-three, nineteen, seventy, five, he committed plenty of crimes before that time well. Wasn't stranger to crime a man not afraid to commit crime and a man when he kidnapped Patty hearst surrounded by Bay area well educated young. Marxist. Flavored revolutionaries who had never themselves committed crimes. But one of some of that grit and excitement made him feel edgy and they fed his delusions of grandeur. Fifteenth Nineteen, forty three to free was born in Cleveland, Ohio birthplace of my Polish wife city with lots of Polish people that. Long history kicking out monsters net part of the world you get. His parents were Louise Mary decrease and he was not born into wealth and privilege like Patty hearst and I were. A freeze was the eldest of eight children his mother Mary was a registered nurse at a nursing home his father although there isn't much info on him apparently wasn't as carrying as to freeze his mother according to some reports. He disciplined Donald as boy by breaking both of his arms not once not twice but three separate fucking time. So clearly Donald was a bad kid who started off being about listening and ended up being bad at thrown baseball the stop right now you. Know this is true. His father was clearly extremely physically abusive to freeze. We grow up to become a very angry and violent man and if my dad had broke both my arms three times. Yeah I probably would have been angry and violent my twenties as well. and. In my teens at the age of Fourteen Donald David freeze dropped out of school ran away from home ran away from his dad losing yet another arm match semi come on he can now. He did really run away though unless that's not funny. You understand he and he ended up in buffalo new. York. where he lives in, he lives in foster care eventually lived with the man named Reverend William L. Foster fundamentalist minister is family while living with pastor foster. He joined a gang called D. cracks skulls. I'm guessing pastor foster was unaware of this. And how was Your Day Young Donald goodpastor foster me and somebody who cracks skulls carjacked woman in Allentown Liquor. Store Broadway Elm. Well, glad to hear you've made some friends in Buffalo Donald breakout. To freeze was quickly arrested for stealing from parking meters. Then for stealing a car, the state of New York decided to give the kid a shot or rehabilitation and send him to a state reformatory in L. Myron York the Almira Correctional Facility was a unique and innovative prisoners time it rejected theories of reform the developed the nineteenth century theories at inmates should be silent obedient spend all their time You know when they're not reflecting on their crimes in single occupation cells, they suspended working elmira different. They believed that approaching reform from a psychological perspective rather than a physical perspective yielded better chances for true reform. Almira used a lot of what we think is of as a fairly logical. Now, like techniques like encouraging inmates with rewards, variable senses according to the criminals background history education. But that mean that everything was candy and sunshine about his time in prison to freeze would say life in the prison as we called it now because it was a juvenile correction facility. Oh, it was nothing but fear and hate day in and day out I would not be part of any of the gangs black or white I didn't hate anyone black or white and they hated me for that. Upon his release nineteen, sixty, three, the now nineteen twenty year old to freeze relocated to the Newark New Jersey area. There he met and married a woman named Gloria Thomas who had three children from a previous marriage. The couple of quick they have three more children and then struggle financially Weird Weird. How strange a dude who kicked out three kids right after being released from prison dude who jumped into relationship Where they you know the lady already had three kids would then struggle with money if only birth control pills would've been around in the sixties. They were actually. that's when they first showed up all that sixty s you know hippie sex was fueled partly by great music and counterculture revolution Tiberius and most by the first reliable and affordable birth control pill to be widely used. Owa. the freeze did not use it and the ended up damn near homeless with Donald only able to find sporadic employment as a short order cook or laborer, and then Donald came up with a great plan to fix everything for himself at least like so many super cool dudes have done that we've covered on time he decided to completely abandon this family. Later he would write, I just couldn't take it anymore. I was slowly becoming a nothing. I would define someone who abandoned their their families being nothing to freeze thaw doing that turn him into something I. Guess. He he he made it clear across the country before getting arrested in nineteen, sixty four, and then returning to his family in. New Jersey. Police stopped him while he was hitch-hiking on San Bernardino freeway near West. COVINA. California on him. They found a tear-gas Pencil bomb. A sharpened butter knife and he sought off Reiffel had all that suitcase sources? Don't say what he was officially charged with I can't figure out why he was charged with anything I really didn't seem like he did anything wrong I mean he's regular dude hitchhiking with a suitcase at a knife, a gun and a pinball. What do not bring with him checking his dangerous you never know what kind of fucking wack job you're run to. You might need a tear gas bomb I need a sharp butter knife. Seems to me like trying to be prepared for getting picked up by some kind of psycho, but the police saw differently. headed. Back to new. Jersey Jackie with his family he'd get arrested for shooting off a gun inside his basement and for having a bomb. Oh I'm sorry officer am I not allowed in the land of the free to shoot off my own gun in a house full of children and make some fucking bombs sorry I forgot I was living in North Korea. Donald later, right. I started playing with guns and fireworks just anything to get away from life and how unhappy I was. He was sentenced to two years of probation nineteen, sixty five he has back out to California makes Los Angeles. Be Grudgingly. He brings us. Would family the change of scenery would only intensify his financial worries in his run INS with law enforcement on June ninth nine, hundred, Sixty, seven, two, please stop to freeze for running a red light. Is Weird on his bike. Runs a red light in his bicycle. They asked for his name he gives them a fake one. Then when they search him, they find a homemade bomb in his pocket and then in the basket of the bicycle defined another bomb and pistol. defrays tells them this I love this it doesn't. He'd found the two bombs and the pistol just laying around and he's just trying to sell them to feed his family, and for some reason, the crazy cops didn't believe him. Oh. Oh, you're arresting me seriously. I I'm sorry that I just leave North Korea for mother. Russia is it illegal to find bombs and guns laying around and? Put them in my bicycle basket and try to make some side cash sell them a little bit it. Oh, it is. Oh, it is illegal to sell bombs to people on the street Okay. Well, sorry. I don't have every single memorized. Is Given three more years probation. The probation officer interviews to freeze writes that he's deeply troubled. By this case, I bet they keep finding you find bombs this guy. Earlier probation report describes to freeze as schizoid per se schizoid personality with strong schizophrenic potential who has a fascination with firearms explosives psychiatric officials of the prison testing center where he's briefly sent after his arrest recommend that he be jailed because his fascination with firearms and explosives makes him dangerous. He sounds dangerous. And then while this case is going to court, MR freeze is arrested again on December second nineteen, sixty seven. I WANNA kind of bullshit trumped up charge. He'll have thrown at him this time. A prostitute complains a threatened her with a pistol and demanded money according to the police report arriving at the motel to investigate the police say they found a pistol stolen from a store in nearby torrents and then other stolen weapons in the trunk of Donald Carr and how do they get their? You know what he fucking found. Them is illegal to be really good at finding guns and bombs laying around you would think in a good. They'd give him a medal for finding that style before kids founded in hurt themselves. But no in the United States of Fascist motherfuckers you get arrested for doing good deeds. Everyone knows being absurd right also. To freeze initially avoided rest by jumping from a second story bedroom window, he's captured four days later, and then to avoid serious prison time he rats on an accomplice and leads the police to Ronald Colman's house where they find nearly two hundred weapons stolen from a surplus surplus store. and then. Donald doesn't get any trouble doesn't get any further troubles gives me for a long time. He's not arrested again for another four months. On March tenth nineteen, Sixty Eight, he's charged with burglary in Inglewood on August sixteenth. Nine hundred sixty eight HR still motorcycle on March Twentieth Nineteen Sixty nine he gets in trouble for finding on the ground, a loaded nine millimeter rifle with thirty two rounds in a magazine. Probation had been modified months earlier in December thirteenth nineteen, sixty eight to forbid possession of firearms or bombs but still doesn't go to jail for any of these crimes. Why? Because the police finally woke up and realized it's not illegal to be good at finding stuff. No. As to why he wasn't picked up immediately put in jail for these crimes many have speculated. The freeze wasn't informant for either the LAPD who in the sixties were beefing up their surveillance or surveillance on radical groups particularly. Marxist and black aligned organizations or even CIA or FBI who also had interest in these organizations and Donald being both black and Marxist did run in these circles according to author Brad Schreiber who wrote revolutions end the Patty hearst kidnapping mind control, and the secret history of Donald to freeze and the SA to freeze was a former lapd informant running guns to setup. Black. Panthers. Not, everyone thinks to freeze was an informant though legal analyst, an author Jeffrey Tobin who wrote the account on the O. J. Simpson case that was adapted into the first season of fx is nine emmy winning American crime season disputes, aspartame. Riding, the Donald, freeze was to bit incompetent criminal who in Los Angeles tried to work off a beef like a lot of criminals do by telling the cops he knew about other criminals the idea that he was some sort of secret agent for the government is just absurd. So was he or was he not some kind of informant? We don't know nobody does for sure. Seems Weird that he just keeps getting. You know nothing more than parole even though he's arrested just continually. By the late spring of nineteen sixty nine to freeze has abandoned his family once again finally, weight off his back. He's sick. He's sick. He's taking them holding them back from committing crimes on May nine, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, nine, the Newark Police report the freezing, a companion Ralph Cobb have kidnapped and threatened. Alfred Witter's caretaker of the Temple of. Banana. Abraham. The police said the to a driven Mr Witter's around with a shotgun to his head claim to be Black Panthers and demanding five thousand dollars from the rabbi of the synagogue that they felt that they needed to secure the release of another Black Panther. Ralph COBB was tried and acquitted, and then a memorandum from the prosecutor's Office. Memorandum decided to drop charges against Mr Free. Since they believed he'd soon be incarcerated in California for other crimes anyway. So he gets away with another crime and he doesn't get thrown in prison in California for these other crimes but he does get arrested again on October Eleventh Nineteen sixty-nine, some police officers in Cleveland spot to freeze on the roof of a bank building he's carrying two pistols and an age dagger that he has found. Dangerous weapons he found while taking a leisurely stroll the happen to be on the roof of bank thinking about how he was getting his act together and GonNa do right by his family. So the police of course, give him a key to the city. No after he's caught, the police find a burglar's tool kit and a hand grenade nearby Weird Donald claimed he didn't know anything about these things. He definitely didn't know how someone who put his fingerprints over. He puts a five thousand dollar bond and leaves for Los Angeles. Again, it gets away with this. It's way with doing some Super Shady Shit doesn't get arrested for this or you don't track him down. On November seventeenth nineteen, sixty nine to freeze is wounded in a gunbattle outside a bank. Of America, branch in La finally gets in some real trouble he's arrested convicted of having stolen a thousand dollars cashier's check sent to the California. State prison in Vacaville fifty, four miles northeast of San Francisco Hearst Country Kiss, Ya ya about to connect to freezes story to her family. In this prison, he joins an inmate organization called one hundred percent innocent guys who can't help being super good defining bullshit. Nas Not right. Now the group called Black Cultural Association, which stresses African Heritage and pride at its weekly meetings. It's here that the intellectual seeds of what would become the Symbionese Liberation Army are planted into freezes might be. At, Vacaville was a group that would take black prisoners, introduce them to liberal white college students who didn't talk about the black prison experience in their university work and many of these college students happened to be very, very Marxist. To Members Program are William, Wolf, and Russell. Little members of a radical political group called the Vince Ramos Spanish for we will overcome or they'll a term closely associated with the Chilean Socialist Movement. These two Yahoos later become members of two freezes, SLA Future SLA members, Angela Atwood Nancy Ling Perry also visit Vacaville to meet with radical prison groups while to freezes imprisoned in is these young radicals these black prisoners no matter what they were actually incarcerated for political prisoners oppressed by racist and corrupt American society and a lot of black Americans were being oppressed by racist and corrupt White American majority culture that doesn't mean that Donald to freeze specifically wasn't fucking Durbeck. He didn't get framed and thrown onto death row he got away with doing a lot of dumb shit. It was a family abandoning violent looney toon who couldn't stop making bumps. Before leaving Vacaville prison to freeze broke away from the black cultural. Association started his own Program called Yuna site who stated purpose was a study of the black family. The recent family abandoned her is now a family advocate this motherfuckers too much. December of nineteen seventy, two degrees was transferred to the dead prison until the day California he won't stay long. He escapes just months later on March Fifth Nineteen, seventy three. So he can return to his family. No, he doesn't do that, but he does escape. Very easily, he basically just walked away. To freeze had a good prison record had learned the trade of boiler repair. He was able to fool the authorities into giving him minimum security status and then one day while he was unsupervised supposed to be just working on the boiler and some stuff. Is Walkout slept just didn't come back. After escaping to freeze made his way to Oakland California where he was hidden in house by two anti-capitalist college kids, Willie Wolfe and Russell Litter little those people who had visited in prison They took him to the House of Twenty Three Year Old Patricia. Ms Moon. Soil stick or sold sold a sick a Berkley student daughter of pharmacist and self. Radical feminist and revolutionary dedicated to subverting the dominant capitalist pig paradigm of America. For the next several months Donald. Family man to freeze and Ms Moon Faulk just go at it like rabbits and also sometimes work on Symbionese Liberation Army Literature Donald Lives with Ms Moon for several months through her he meets Camilla Hall twenty-eight-year-old Berkeley Artists and communist and a deep dive into Marxist revolutionary thinking ensues. The semi's Liberation Army is now officially formed. So let me give a quick overview of this group who they became then it'll be timeline time. The symbionese Liberation Army also called United Federated. Forces of the Symbionese Liberation Army was a small group of multiracial militants who consider themselves members of a vanguard army basically small army that would force her lead. America's masses to revolt and overthrow their corporate overlords. Logo was a seven headed Cobra pretty sweet. And the group's motto was death to the fascist insect that preys upon the life of the people. Fuck Yeah. You know someone got a real solid high five coming up with that one I would love to hear snippets of the brainstorm that came up with that motto like what what didn't accept it. Is Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I got I got it. I got how about Her male. Harm comes to the fascist baby who sucks upon the teat of the poor more than a baby should suck therefore, not leaving enough milk for other less fascist babies who an ideal communist society would all get an equal and satisfying amount of breast milk. Mill you jive Turkey Lemus Fuck Peter. Way. More. Powerful. Less wordy. Okay. Okay. Hold on. How about? Death to the capitalist spider fascists who spin their web and catch weak helpless commie flies what? No it's terrible. That makes us look really bad Peter. Who wants to join a revolution led by weak helpless Commie semi's liberation. Army, flies you're right. You're right. Can we five minutes? Let me just keep working this bug angle? Let me just keep working this bug angle. If you're wondering what Symbionese means. I didn't mean a damn thing nineteen, seventy two. Because Donald hadn't made it up until nineteen, seventy three according to the group's Manifesto Symbionese was taken from the word symbiosis, a body of dissimilar bodies and organisms living in deep and loving harmony. But really never about love and harmony a freeze not only came up with the name for his new group of radicals yellow came up with a new name for himself is about to be referred to as general field. Marshal Sin Q. He named himself after an African Mindy chief who took over a slave ship eighteen thirty s and freed himself and others. Pretty Sweet. the original Josephson Cue. was actually pronounced a sink. A rumored to himself had become a trader in Africa after winning his own freedom. Maybe. Could have picked a better name. I don't know there were initially eight members of the SLA the freeze being the only black member and the only member who came from a low income household or had a criminal record the seven. Were Caucasian middle class or upper middle class men and women raised in. You know nice households most of them fresh out of college who then adopted Swahili names and took up arms for the self-styled Symbionese Federation Nancy. Ling Perry went by the name Fayza Patricia Socialistic Call Herself Zoya. Bill. Harris decided to call himself tico Emily Harris went by you llandough Angela Atwood wet by Galina Russell Little Swahili name was. OSCEOLA. Joe Ramiro renamed himself Bo. William. Wolf. Called Himself Cujo, and Camilla Hall went by Gabby. So the SLA quickly routed having eighteen members along with a handful of associates and sympathizers, and they were they were prepared to bring America to its knees. Listen up capitalist pigs. We don't want to wage war. Fall you. All your senators and Congressmen. Don't leave Capitol Hill tonight. If the White House is now vacated by midnight. Tonight. If the Pentagon doesn't send work for the entire U. S. military industrial complex to stand down immediately, we will find so many guns laying around on the ground. We will use them to bait this nation in the blood of the revolution. CAN YOU DIG it? We have almost twenty mostly misguided, well, intentioned young suburbanite hip cats who may have never even been a fist fight let alone gun but they are prepared to pupil. All Day and all night until the new of groovy natural nation is born and incite came you dig. You get. Is Group. Boy. I. Just I just can't imagine what it's like to be around their meetings. Right? It's like all these frankly really soft like. Middle class way kids. Still fucking hard you know the SLA did really WANNA change my shit big way they wanted to close all prisons monogamy destroy all other institutions that have made an sustained capitalism. They went big pretty lofty goals for small group. There were dedicated to Marxism into revolution and as much as I mock them they were actually pretty organized they would come up with and carry out a plan to take not only an heiress to a massive fortune hostage, but they would take much of American media hostage well. Okay. I think we know enough about the hearst Family Patty Hers Donald Jeffries escalate in the general vibe with the counterculture in the Bayer in seventies now. So we can get into timeline. Let's jump into the time line starting off in nineteen, seventy three with the formation of the SLA. But before we do, it is sponsored time question meet sex. When we multivitamins do we actually know what we're taking. We all deserve the truth about what we put into our bodies. 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GLASSES DOT com slash time suck start taking care of your eyes today feel better work smarter shipping and returns are totally free at Felix Gray glasses dot com slash time suck. Thanks for listening to our sponsor messages hope able to dig in. December, those great deals appreciate it. Please allow me to now hit this button. Shrimp on those boots soldier we're marching down a time suck time line. In the fall of nineteen seventy-three to freeze and the Berkeley rattle radicals excuse me as I just went over form. These symbionese liberation. Army I. Didn't share the following little trivia nugget regarding their formation. Let me do that now interesting theory about in the formation of the SA touchdown, but I want expand on it. It's called the CIA assassination squad theory. It takes the theory that the freeze was You know some kind of government informant, even further building on the work of private investigator Lake Healy, who may have dug into the Patty hearst kidnapping deeper than any other single investigator some authors and alternative media have developed theories that the. was a fully controlled CIA assassination squad with the Black Panther. Party as its main target. Under this narrative, the SLA originated within California prisons where to freeze was sent as an informer to infiltrate incarcerated radical groups, and then set up his own organization like all was all this plant. This theory states that Donald to freeze was sent into prison by the CIA and the Black Cultural Association was used to monitor radicals among both visiting students in prison inmates the CIA. Created the black cultural. Association at Vacaville Facility as part of developing the SLA a phony left-wing group upon meeting radicals after prison escape and before he was incarcerated to freeze was known for his eagerness to sell firearms, explosives and related related items all stuff he found but seriously, how did he get all the shit? His means of consistently acquiring weaponry has never been fully explained. Was He trying to set up sting operations according to this theory he was never sent to prison for earlier weapons charges, and he always had access to weapons because he was being given weapons by the CIA why to gain the attention of the Black Panthers so that he then infiltrate their group and then helped the CIA take them down from within now do I believe this not necessarily but I don't think it's impossible. The. CIA has done all kinds of crazy shit to take out groups. It deemed a threat to the US government. They did have a black radical groups in the sixties and seventies in their crosshairs for sure and before that fifties forty s you know all kinds of stuff that they've done If nothing else this is an interesting theory. Is wanted to share it before I move on after several months of weapons training at their safehouse the SLA committed its first Revolutionary Act on November six, nine, hundred, seventy, three, they ambush and murder Oakland, School Superintendent Marcus Foster, and seriously wounds deputy Robert Blackburn why would they do this? Foster had just three years earlier become the first African American School Superintendent of a large school district in American history. He'd received national awards. Then he got shot eight times at the age of fifty with hollow point bullets that had been packed with cyanide. He'd been a a National Award winning principal the SLA shot mistakenly or mistakenly excuse me targeted him for his support of an ID system for Oakland students an ID system designed to keep non student drug dealers off campus the SLA target foster because they believed he supported the measure to institute oppressive security measures, schools, including more police presence. There were this the program it was built around these ID's he did not foster did advocate initially for the ideas, but then rescinded his support weeks before he was assassinated. This. Crime to me shows how crazy donald freeze and his followers were in the name of standing up against white oppressors capitalist oppressors they kill black man working his ass off to keep black students safe from drug dealers a guy focused on the education of black students. The S. L. A.'s crime announced the group is one capable of committing violent acts in the name of revolution. It also brought down the scorn of the Berkeley left most of whom found the political murder of a black man by a black led organization incomprehensible. If you follow the CIA plan theory. Then you could argue that this was done intentionally to you know. To just harass the black community I guess on January Tenth Nineteen seventy-four SLA members Ross Little Jo Ramiro or arrested traffic cops, SLA weapons and propaganda found in their possession. Fearing the house will be rated Nancy Ling Perry sets fire to the group safe house and goes underground. Please find the safehouse scorched but not burned down. Leaving significant amount of evidence of what the group was up to and who some of them were. Whoops. I'm guessing, Nance Qatar. Asked you bit for that one just Nancy. What did I? What did I say to do in event of the five. Oh snacks at some of our soldiers that I say to burn down the fucking safe house or did I say to kind of scorched some of it and leave the rest unharmed so that authorities are able to get important Intel on a revolutionary organization. what's Patricia hearst of to around this time? When nineteen seventy four began patty was only nineteen. She smoke weed sneaking out to rock concerts at San. Francisco's fillmore auditorium feather in her hair like Farah Fawcett, wearing blue jeans t-shirts with no Bra Flynn. I both think that seventies look hottest by the way. Taylor Fina and pretending to relate to kids who were not raised by billionaires. She just transferred from her little private school to the state school her family practically owned. She was engaged to and living with Stephen. We'd her high school math tutor creepy sounding I know. But. He was only a few years older than her according to reports from the seventies I, think he was like forty three or forty seven. Anyway parents disapproved of her relationship with Mr. We'd and Patty briefly had to pay your own bills kind of for four months. But not really because she lived with Mr Wheat worked at a department store for four months and then reconciled with Daddy. And then immediately quit her job because he agreed to go back to paying for everything. And even we'd was twenty, six, now forty, three or forty seven. And back in Nineteen, seventy, four, twenty, six year old dating in the nineteen year old wasn't actually uncommon not condoning or judging just pointing that out. With their families money she bought expensive artwork Persian rugs pretty much do whatever she wanted. She was living the dream she was going to class when she felt like edge shacking up with her fiance party, our parents time, and then all that would change on February fourth. According to a report prepared prepared two weeks after the fact for the US House of Representatives. Committee. On Internal Security patties kidnapping went down like this at about nine twenty pm on February fourth in Berkeley California two men and a woman force their way into the apartment of Patricia hearst entry to the Ground Floor Townhouse apartment at twenty six three bienvenue Bien. Venue a bien venue. I don't know avenue four blocks south of the campus was obtained by the female SLA terrorist tapping on the glass patio door and asking us the telephone to report an accident. Miss her fiance Stephen. We twenty-six opened the garden door and the woman pushed into the apartment accompanied by two black males one armed with the rifle the other arm with the pistol, and perhaps also a rifle we'd was beaten about the head and shoulders until semi-conscious and tied up Stephen K.. Suenaga twenty-one, a neighbor who heard the noise and ran into the department was also beaten. patio taken into her kitchen tied up and dragged out of the home screaming and fighting the entire time they dumped into the trunk of a one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, three, Chevy Impala some SLA members got into another car to car sped off firing shots at the apartment buildings they rolled away six blocks away they transfer patty to another car abandoning the impala. Kidnapping is swift and violent carried out the words of one reporter with commando like precision Stephen Weed says, the police kidnappers were so coordinated they barely needed to speak to one another. That evening Walter cronkite reports on the kidnapping sparking a national media frenzy. I mean think about how big stories it's almost to the level of of one of Obama's or trump's kids being kidnapped by a group of domestic terrace as one of Bill Gates daughters was kidnapped. Terrified people because it felt like if some group could kidnapped Patty hearst, they could get your kids, it could get anyone. Patty drifting in and out of consciousness and the car would say later that she expected her father to quickly pay whatever ransom these people wanted but that would not be the case. The primary intention of the La was for more than just money. It wanted revenge against a class of people. It saw as oppressors SLA members placed her in a stuffy closet size room with a bare lightbulb portable Kat. No windows in the hot poorly ventilated room in addition to be in place in physically uncomfortable surroundings patty would later claim that members of the SLA became. To psychologically torture her as the days passed they can s- continually insisted that her parents love their money more than her that they would not save her that they were evil capitalists who cared about their image far more than they cared about their daughter's life a freeze AKA general field, Marshal, Sin Q. Aka Captain Lucky Guy Bomb and gunfighter led the others in harassing Patty. He insisted he'd killer himself as if his demands are met. What he doesn't tell her is that he hasn't made any demands yet I have no idea what these Aso's want. on the fifth day after the kidnapping reporters gather at the hearst family mansion in Hillsborough that wealthy San Francisco suburb to interview Patti's parents and they do this every day for for months also on the fifth, the FBI releases composite sketches of the suspects based on Stephen, weed and others descriptions. Two days after patties napping on February six, a letter arrives in the Mail at Berkeley. Listener supported at Berkeley's listener supported KPFA, a radio station in it the states that the group has patty but they list no ransom demands just building a little bit of suspense. The next day on February seventh Patty's father receives a letter from the SA in reads it on live television. The United Federation, the United Federated Forces of the Symbionese Liberation Army armed with cyanide litter weapons served in arrest warrant upon Patricia Campbell hearst. All communications from this court must be published in full in all newspapers and all other forms of the media failure to do so will endanger the safety of the prisoner. Should any attempt be made by authorities to rescue the prisoner or to attempt or harm and he sa elements? The prisoner is to be executed. At the bottom of the paper is written death to the fascist insect that preys upon the life of the people. Of course, gotTA throw that Little Gem in their lot of high fives back of the new safe house. When they hear that shit on the news I told you it would sound cool. You guys doubted my bug angle at first. But that insect line oh, man that is sound as a pound and totally groovy. The family wouldn't here again from the SA for five days. While they wait Patricia continues to be held captive in basically this closet. On February twelfth a message from the SLA is received in the form of a tape recording sent to K. F. Pierre KPFA. the studio played the tape for anyone listening I'll read an excerpt. Greetings to the people and fellow comrades, brothers and sisters. My name is Cinco and to my comrades I'm not a sin. I hold the rank of General Field Marshal in the United. Federated? Forces. Or the Symbionese Liberation Army. The SLA has arrested the subject for the crime that her mother and father have by their actions committed against the American people and you'll press people of the world. Randolph hearst is the corporate chairman of the Fascist Media Empire of the ultra-right Hearst Corporation which is one of the. largest propaganda institutions of this military dictatorship of the military arm corporate state that we now live under in this nation. The primary goal of this empire is to serve and form the necessary propaganda and smokescreen to seal the American people from the realities of the corporate dictatorship with Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford represents in closing I would just say to Mr Hurston Mrs Hurst I'm quite willing to carry out the execution of your daughter to save the life of starving men, women and children of every race. And if as you other naively believed that we will lose, let it be known that even in death, we will win for the very ashes of this fascist nation will marco very grapes. We are the crickets hide in the shadows. The lady blocks won't stop leaning on you and don't really scare you per se but can make you jumpy and then the next time you feel something. You find yourself thinking I won't freak out again because probably the lady bump but maybe it's a spider no thirty bucks or is it I don't know what not a winter too long now now when your head like Lady but David Peter I, told you take the ladybugs bucks shit out of the speech one insect references more than enough. We sound like idiots is a tape. So recording. Okay so I may have added the bug stuff, but the rest of the recording plate as I read it and it was a lot more to it. included in in Q. Statement was a demand that her family giveaway millions of dollars in food to the poor and the needy. Next came, they frightened voice of Patty hearst saying Mom Dad I'm okay. I'm with a combat unit that's armed with automatic weapons and these people aren't just a bunch of nuts. They've been really honest with me but they're perfectly willing to die for what they're doing and I want to get out of here. But the only way I'm going to is if we do it their way and I just hope that you'll do what they say dad and just do it quickly and I mean I hope that this puts you a little bit at ease and that you know that I really I really am all right I just hope I can get back to everybody really soon. Later. In the day, Randolph hearst makes a public statement and addresses his daughter directly. He tells that he's doing everything he can to get her out of there to take care of herself. Runoff hers is in contact with the FBI but he assures padding or kidnappers. No. One's GonNa bust in and start shooting cannot imagine how furious he must have been like how much he must have wanted to use his money and influence to destroy anyone associated with taking his daughter. Someone took one of my kids I would want to kill them myself. I wouldn't fuck why did I would just want them to die. Another demand soon followed when Angela. Atwood another SLA member informed the authorities. The symbionese war war council has determined that communication between POW Patricia hearst and her family will come only after the immediate creation of the necessary mechanisms. Russell Little Joseph Ramiro can communicate via live national TV with people and the SLA concerning the full scope of their physical health and all the conditions of their confinement. I love how they act as if they have a war council. By by war canceled you mean, Becky from Minnesota who has Berkeley Philosophy degree and considers not shaving her armpits or radical stand against the man or are you referring to Timothy from Seattle who hasn't worn shoes in two years and has been selling incense candles down by the ferry building before he joined the? SLA. These people think they are I part Randolph hearst is willing to accommodate the SLA's demand he must Godley hate them so much he said he'd do everything he could to get Russell little and Joseph for mural on the air the two members who have been arrested the previous month. However the FBI says, no, they're not willing to allow this. They think it's only gonNA, feed the leadership's. And make them even more dangerous. Like the right call on February thirteenth speaking to reporters camped outside his house. Randolph. Hearst reply to the SA demands saying that they were impossible by this time the S. l., A.'s constant barrage of accusations about how horrible the hearst's are are beginning to take their toll on. Patty? They've convinced her that our parents You know our negotiating for her ransom trying to spend less money. This makes her incredibly sad and scared I mean make sure they do they really care more about their money than about her life and then things get worse for Patty reports come in of a heavily all of armed FBI agents raiding a house where they thought Patty was being held petty filter parents were recklessly allowing the FBI to risk her life. Right Her dad said that they weren't going to do these raids. While extending the media coverage in performing for spectators she wasn't entirely wrong about the performance part pettis mom had done this weird thing she had taken to wearing black all black and speaking of Patty in the past tense. Her daughter hasn't even gone for two weeks yet. As pretty strange, how would you be if you were kidnapped and then like ten days later, your mom's on TV dressing all black talking about you like you're already dead. Worse her mom had ignored the demand by or one of the demands by accepting another appointment from then governor Ronald Reagan to be region of the University of California the ESA had told the hearst to sever their ties with Reagan the fascist. Patty said later I felt like I could have killed her when she did that my own Mother didn't care whether the SLA shot me or not. Only ten days in Patty starting to believe her family really doesn't care about her almost two weeks after her capture on February Sixteenth Ucla releases another taped message I or from hearst. And this one reveals a shift in her attitude towards her captors. She says I'm being held as a prisoner of war and not as anything else I mean I'm being treated in accordance with international codes of war also since I'm an example and it's really important that everybody understand that you know I am an example and a warning, and because of this, it's very important to the SA that return safely and so people should stop acting like I'm dead mom should get out of her black dress that doesn't help at all just hurry by. Feel she wanted to go off harder on her mom there clearly mad mom stopped making it all about you. Selfish Bitch I the one who kidnapped you sympathy for. February Twentieth Nineteen Seventy Four Marks Patty hearst twentieth birthday on third audiotape to freeze demands at the hers spend six million dollars on feeding the hungry. Randolph hearst replies at six million is beyond his capabilities. Later, his representatives proposed a compromise and offer two million upon the immediate release about he hurts and then an additional two million in January of Nineteen, seventy five. The SLA. Of course rejects this counteroffer and Randolph hearst announces that he will indeed be putting a sizable portion of his fortune towards feeding the hungry as they have asked. Quickly makes arrangements for two million dollars to be donated to a local charity and creates a distribution plan called people in need pin and just four days. Hearst and others create one of the largest private volunteer organizations in the history of the US. Almost four thousand people volunteer to help give out food PIN director. Ludlow Kramer expects at the program will be able to feed one hundred thousand people for twelve months with the two million dollars. Still, alive. These assholes but kind of cool that they got to do this as opposed to just giving them the money I mean, this is kind of some robinhood should here. Men. In the FBI criticize hearst decision to give into the terrorists her doesn't care. He's in the it's my daughter and I will do whatever it takes camping I gotta respect that. On. February twenty-second to first disastrous attempt to distribute food for patties. Freedom occurs crowds form around the hunters point distribution site in West Oakland. Soon, riding breaks out leading to dozens of injuries and arrests response. The Attorney General for California makes the following statement in the future. Every crime committed in connection with the kidnapping will be prosecuted. If it's done a response to extortion or kidnapping will encourage the local district attorneys to prosecute under existing law and if they don't we will. After. The food distribution, another tape statement by Patty hearst broadcasts, and it reveals our attitude continues to shift torture parents and society in general. In this third statement, she says Mom Dad. I've been hearing reports about the food program so far it sounds like you and your advisors have managed to turn it into a real disaster. You said it was out of your hands. You should have said was that you wash your hands of it. It sounds like most of the food is low quality no one received any beef or lamb anyway it certainly didn't sound like the kind of food our family is used to eating. The flock I mean they gotta be so sad for obviously home but also like what you just fucking say. Oh I'm sorry I with four days notice I didn't feed one, hundred, thousand people the way you preferred. The statement makes a lot of listeners wonder what the fuck patties up to rumors began to spread that she has staged her own kidnapping in order to join the SLA and a quick note on this rumor. Healy that private investigator I mentioned earlier he did think before he died that Patty hearst had met with Donald freeze while he was in prison months before napping as other students did and that she was in on this whole thing from the very beginning that was all staged. Why would you do that? He Lethal Patty pole-day colossal spoiled rich girl gets real mad daddy move the she was furious. With her father because she had dated a black man before she started seeing her math tutor, we're kinda. Creepy Guy and her dad found out confronted her and strongly disapproved, and then she and daddy had a big blow up over her also having very far left political views. You know I e socialist to the point of being communists that directly opposed her father's very far. Right staunch capitalist views. And then she pulled his whole thing off just to get back at him. Now do I believe this now really never been proven. But again, I kinda CIA Steph asks possible now to some degree also again, entertaining theory I mean how crazy would it be if she helped orchestrates tire thing I doubt I doubt she could pull off older and get away with it. And going forward, you probably operate on the on the premise that she did not help plan her own kidnapping back to February twenty-second Nineteen, seventy four. Reporters asked Math Tutor Stephen. We'd for insight into Patty, state of mind and he responds I can see that she may actually be having her doubts as to you know from her point of view it may look like we've made a mess of things. Previous to the last two months, I would say that she really didn't have a political point of view I. Think by the time this is over, she's going to have some sort of political view. Thanks for that. Thanks for that Steven Great Sites two years after the kidnapping a rolling stone article would speculate that by degrees her disillusionment with their parents turn into sympathy for the SLA. But more may have been going on with Patti than simple disillusionment she been kept that small closet room for a month. Now become mentally physically emotionally week she could barely stand up to get out of the closet. She had to attend the SLA's Daily political study sessions where she would have to listen to the national anthem they would read her statistics and. Quotes from like George Jackson Russell McGee to leftist writers arguing that less than ten percent of the US population control ninety percent of the wealth that some people eat catered meals while other starve that some can afford fancy lawyers while others just rotten jail than some live off their haired ince's or other squalor and despair, and all of that is true no argument there. However would all of these evils be cured by communism? That's what kills me about these kind of arguments. So many people starved under communist regimes. Can the world you know suddenly turned into one big idyllic kindergarten classroom where everyone shares toys and eats the same snack. There's no more capitalism me and Django don't think. So we think communism carries the incentive to innovate or to put in more hours more blood sweat and tears, and your competitor to make a better product that not only financially benefits yourself. But also improves some improve society in some way like by creating jobs but the SA. They thought some Marxist. System could cure all of America's ills and they pushed us believe on Patty hearst hour after hour day after day. And many things that this completely brainwashed her after month or so in study sessions attacked her family personally over and over again, they showed her a list of the current family holdings nine newspapers thirteen magazine's fourteen radio stations, a Silverman, a paper mill, many prime pieces of real estate on and on and on. It told her the she was clearly part of the ruling elite how dare her parents create thousands of jobs and build an empire or are they doing living the American dream? How dare forefathers become more successful than peers? SLA members told Patty that nothing mattered to her parents more than money. They told her that her parents and the economic class they represented were to blame for her misery and the misery of countless others and the only way their love for money could be conquered with. And violence. They, hugged her called her their sister by all accounts made themselves into her substitute family. They began to make not just a political connection with her but an emotional one. And by the end of February she was more of an SLA member than a captive within a month of being taken and held hostage also establish a sexual connection with someone in the group not surprising given that she was twenty in the group adamantly believed free love she began sleeping with twenty three year old Willie Wolf Aka Cujo. Wolf was the closest padding age and background. The son of Pennsylvania doctor he'd attended private schools is whole life been varsity swimmer sports editor of the school paper. He spent a summer working with kids in Harmelin an excuse me in Harlem then spurned the Wolfe Family Yale tradition and enrolled in Berkeley. At Berkeley where he'd room with SLA member Russell little and met Cinco. On February twenty eighth, the second pin food distribution goes on as fewer problems in the first. ludlow Kramer would later recalled that the program gave away thirty thousand dollars worth of top quality food to Oakland's poor. Crazy the actually did pull this off they made a billionaire feed cities poor. On March, Fourth California Governor Ronald Reagan having earlier predicted that no one would take the food from pin accuses the thousands of people who line up for free groceries of aiding and abetting lawlessness. And thousands of California's poor are undoubtedly heard same super clever things like fuck Ronald Reagan. On March Fifth and eighth and third and fourth pin food distributions take place her still have no idea where their daughter is. In a fourth tape released on March Ninth Patty hearst heard criticizing her parents Saint I. Don't believe that you're doing anything at all the what are you? What are you talking about their? And people. Try. They're giving away millions. What am I in for appearance? How do you even process your kid being kidnapped and then turned against you? Right you're so happy that they're alive but also you got to be constantly thinking what the fuck. All I ever did was give you an amazing home the best childhood. Now I'm the bad guy. March? Tenth newspapers announced that they will no longer print SLA communicates full enough's enough. For. March tenth to March Thirteenth Randolph hearst secretly meets with Clifford death-row, Jefferson, and other inmates who were SLA contacts at the Vacaville prison. He's desperately trying to find a way to reach his daughter. The discussion seemed to lead nowhere at least not immediately. On March, twenty fifth food is given away yet again on the hearst dime to thirty thousand people in pins fifth and final distribution attempt. On March Thirty First Clifford death-row Jefferson, and other SA. Contacts Appeal to the SLA on behalf of Randolph hearst to begin negotiations for patties release for the first time in over a month. He's hopeful he's close to bringing his daughter home. On April Second Salei sends a note to the San Francisco Phoenix promising more details on the possibility of Patty's released within seventy two hours. There April third less than two months after she'd been kidnapped Patty shocks the world with the following recorded message. Mom, Dad. Tell. The poor and oppressed people of this nation, the corporate state is about to do. Worn Black and poor people that they were about to be murdered down to the last man woman and child. Kill the people of the energy crisis is nothing more than a means to get the public approval a massive program to build nuclear power plants all over the nation. The people that the entire corporate state is with the aid of this massive power supply about a totally automate the entire industrial state, the point, the next five years all will be needed as a small class of button pushes tell the people dad but the removal of expendable accept the removal of a needed people has already started. I've been given the choice of one theme released in a safe area or to joining the forces of the Symbionese Liberation Army and fighting for my freedom and the freedom of all oppressed people I have chosen to stay. I've been given the name to Nia after a comrade who fought alongside shape in Bolivia, it is in the spirit of to me that I say, but tree on wet. then. It isn't a spirit of to me that I say I am the grasshopper I will eat the seeds of capitalist greed. It isn't a spirit that I say I am the carpenter ants carrying small twigs, lead particles and like and things like that back, Beckham my colony like all other soldiers ants working together unlike let's say agreed driven capitalist praying Mantis, who seemed to kind of own thing and not really work with other prey masses for the betterment of all men you dig I mean unless they are in what have you seen manses impairs when do you see those capitalist? Using Creepy Foot Lake Clot. Top things to maybe pass nourishment from one to another man got fucking Peter. We're so sick of this bullshit. Okay obviously the Peterberg stuff was me again. And obviously the entire family is taken aback by this message and also very fun to speak in that cadence with that kind of music in the background would have been fun to put out these measures. An WanNa patties four sisters goes on record saying she was sure that Patti been brainwashed by hearing one side of the story Randolph hearst expresses similar disbelief. You'll be Stephen We'd all I know it was a different time. It's still kinda creepy math tutor McGee. Who had acknowledged that? Maybe there had been a real change in paddy during her captivity saying I am reconciled to the idea that Patty must have matured a great deal in the past two months. I just want to tell Patty that I love her as much as ever and I think she knows that I can accept whatever she has chosen even though it may be hard for me I can accept it. Randolph is hearing this thinking damn. You really want. So my inheritance, don't you? Stephen. Needing to solidify hearst commitment to their cause and get some money to live off of the. SLA. Hastily plans a bank robbery in insisted I participate in it shortly after this last message goes out. On April Fifteenth Patty hearst and four members of the are caught on security camera holding the High High Bernie Hibernia Oh my Gosh Hibernia Bank at Fourteen Fifty Noriega at twenty. Second Avenue. If her family thought that they were shocked before now their minds are really blown five of the bank robbers including Patty entered. The bank will remain outside all make a getaway in two automobiles after firing several shots from automatic weapons and made off with almost eleven thousand dollars. The bank guard would later remark that patty quite comfortable with gun seemed according to him like she was ready to shoot anything or anyone who gotten away. Two civilians are shot during this robbery. Luckily, both will live. Of course, the big question on everyone's mind. Now, as a stories broadcast around the world complete with security camera footage patty definitely joining in on the robbery was whether hers was a witness or actually a perpetrator and no one is as interested in this question as as much as the FBI is the FBI has students at the Berkeley. School for the deaf read Patties, lips the security footage and find out she said I'm to Nia up up up up against the wall motherfucker. Her parents must have been losing their mind at this point. They just witnessed their privileged daughter go from kidnapping victim to a bank robber truly can't imagine. On April twenty third eight days after this bank robbery, the FBI issues a wanted poster with pictures of Donald Davie. Freeze. Patricia Michelle I hate her last name so much salt salsa sick Nancy Ling Perry Cumulus Christine. Hall and Patricia Campbell hearst across the country Americans continue to debate whether or not hearst participated willingly or was coerced. In a six audiotape released on April Twenty Fourth Patty offers evidence of her full participation in the bank robbery. She says that at no time did her comrades begun pointed at her? She now refers to her family as pig hearst's Nice. Pig hearst's and to Stephen Weed is an age just sexist pig she also says. As for being brainwashed the idea is ridiculous to the point of being beyond belief I am a soldier in the People's Army. So she's in she's real in She's one of the most gossiped about people in the in the country. Now, dinner conversation around the US Senate around. Did you hear lease message my got? A week later, may I stain just barely ahead of FBI agent searcher for them SLA members pack up their weapons applies move from a Golden Gate Avenue apartment to Oakland Street in the Bayview district the next day on May second the FBI find the abandoned Golden Gate Avenue apartment just missed him. Two weeks later on May. Sixteenth incident that will confirm too many that patty was indeed now voluntarily a member of the SLA. Patty was sitting alone in a Volkswagen while SA members emily and Bill Harris interest store in Los Angeles patties a fight break out between bill and the store clerk and to prevent the harrises from being arrested Patty shoots twenty seven thirty calibre bullets into the storefront in rapid succession. What the fuck guessing her mom cried a day. quite a bit more. The incident alerts lapd to the fact that the SA is in town, and this is not good for the SLA while the San Francisco PD was most used to dealing with petty crime at that time. The LAPD were a militarized force it had serious experience in both dishing out and dealing with violence. The next day on May seventeenth. Nineteen seventy four, the LAPD FINDS SLA members Donald to free Willie. Wolfe Patricia. So stupid name Camilla Hall Angela Would Nancy Ling Perry in a house in Compton and a shootout ensues with SWAT team members. Rather than risk civilians being shot, and because the SLA members refused to leave the apartment or excuse me refused to leave the house to police set the building on fuck and fire with gas canisters. Holy Shit a TV report announces that anyone in the house must be either dead or dying and the reporters right? All six SLA members die in the Compton. House. One four, six, six, east, fifty, fourth street, and for a while there is speculation that Patty is among the deceased that's not the case. The Harrison Patty hearst watched the shootout on TV from their motel room near Disneyland in Anaheim William Harris recalled. Later the Patty wanted revenge for the raid. Immediately, she wanted to kill some cops for killing both her lover and her leader, and for killing her friends people she now considered her family. She is full fucking SA despite the death of their founder and leader several key members the SLA not over on June seventh nineteen, seventy, four, seven tape recorded message sent to the Press Patty. Hearst offers a eulogy for those killed in the shootout. She proclaims her love for Willie Wolfe and vows that the SLA will continue its noble fight. Math Tutor Stephen, we'd spends most of June seventh. Probably Punching and crying in interest bill. A bill. Harris becomes the SLA's News Journal Field. Marshall, also in June of nineteen seventy, four patty hearst driven to New York, and then to rural. Pennsylvania where she will hide on a farm with Patti Bill and Emily Harris for damn near. Her family has no idea where she is. In November after months of not hearing from Patty, Randolph hearst now withdraws an offer of fifty thousand dollar reward for her safe return he must be so pissed. Does. He no longer see his daughter primarily is a victim now does he see her mainly as a criminal I wonder Finally on April twenty first. So confusing stories. So weird like how would you? There's so little comparable stories to this. It'd be so tough to mostly process all this finally on April twenty, first nineteen, seventy, five, the S. L. A. Resurfaces four members hold up the Crocker Bank in Carmichael. California the enter the bank announced. It's a hold up till everyone to. Get down on the floor and put their faces in the rug than a shot rings out Myrna a softball, a forty, two year old mother of two who is there to deposit church collection money shot and killed by. Emily. Harris another. SA member announces that at the rest of the bank banker customers don't cooperate everyone will get the same treatment as Myrna. And two other members jump over the counter start. Grand Cash. Kicked in the head step on their faces. Continually. Shop. Profanity's verbally abusing these people meanwhile patio outside driving the getaway car. During an interview held before her trial later, hearst recalled her involvement in this robbery sane. Most of the time I was with them. My mind was going through doing exactly what I'm supposed to do. I had been educated very well in what to do I had been you know held in the closet for two months and you know abused in all manner of ways I was very good at doing what I was told I mean they call a Stockholm Syndrome and post traumatic stress disorder and you know I had no free will. It was considered wrong for me to think about my family and Winston was around he didn't want me thinking about rescue because he thought that brainwaves could be read or that you know they'd get a psychic to find me and I was afraid even for that. It was a very strange group of people bound by. The SLA. Codes of war and they follow them very religiously. I was not inside the bank. Finally, five months after this robbery patty is captured by the police on September, Eighteenth, nineteen seventy-five SLA members, Patty and Emily Harris and Wendy Yasha Mirror Yasha Moore. Are Found it's six twenty, five more street and San Francisco Patty Been, missing for five hundred, ninety, one days over nineteen months. Cooperation, between the San Francisco PD and the Federal Bureau of Investigation Lead Her capture FBI agents who have been taken out of house onto eight eight percent of avenue in the burn heights district on a tip spotted bill and Emily Harris walking down the sidewalk in jogging attire. Bill was an easy takedown emily tried to run they. Both are apprehended at the same time, FBI agents, Tom Pat, and Tim Casey Golf The backstairs street. Where they can see the living room and kitchen through the Dutch door they see Patty and Wendy Yoshimura sitting at a table inside Patty starts to get up and agent padding yells FBI freeze I'm GonNa Blow Moosehead off agent Tom Casey Chimes in Saint Patty. Don't make a move that he does not make a move and agent patent goes inside and puts cuffs on her. Tom Casey ask Patty what she was doing there. When she replies I'd rather not tell you about it. To quote. Being booked. The officer asked her for her occupation shelter replied urban guerrilla. I laughed so hard when I first read I'd rather not tell you about it. that. To me is such a rich kid to say to the police somebody who's had such a privilege childhood. You want to do you mind telling me why I pulled you over today. Ma'am. I'd rather not tell you about it. Upon hearing that, Patty been found her family hired a well respected California attorney Terence Hallinan to defend her and patty struck Helena is a genuine SLA member. Helen had prepared. A defense of involuntary intoxication. Pay would claim that she'd been given drugs. The drugs helped convert her to their ideology, but Patti's parents didn't want drugs involved in the defense. They were too worried about the reputation they said the defense should stick to dress and brainwashing and nothing else Helen and kept telling the family that wasn't a defense, but the I would not listen. On February Fourth Nineteen seventy-six, six trial begins two years to the day after her kidnapping. By the time, a defense team has rejected numerous offers by the prosecution to strike a lenient plea bargain because prominent attorney F. Lee Bailey who joined the defense team was confident. He could win the case the hearse again worried about the reputations wanted Patty declared completely innocent of all crimes so they go to trial. Judge Oliver J Carter presides over the trial and Patty is charged as an accomplice in the robbery of the Hibernia Bank I can say that earlier why? Patty herself later admitted that she expected to be charged with murder. All of the prosecution had footage of for holding a gun at the scene of the crime. Patty pled not guilty. She claimed that she been brainwashed into acting against her own will and therefore could not be held guilty for what she had done. And defending his client barely examined a team of witnesses and otherwise who testified that her showed all the symptoms of Stockholm Syndrome? A rare psychological disorder which a kidnapping victim begins to identify with their captors. Term. At the time of the trial and we'll break down You know this term further after the timeline. Bailey, also claimed that she suffered from POW survivor syndrome. No now is PTSD. Paley said that Bailey said that above all patty had feared for her life in cooperated with her kidnappers merely to survive, but it didn't play well with the jury. Patty had been an SLA member from seven weeks after her kidnapping until she was captured. Now, eighteen months after her an initial kidnapping, the first statements, her issued following the bank robbery in which he seemed to strongly identify with SLA's cars didn't sit well with the jury should close personal ties de Soleil members especially, Wolf. She's she wore a stone almac monkey-face pendant that will lead given her. She just didn't seem like someone under any duress also, even if Bailey could convince jurors that hearst had been brainwashed that alone was not considered a defense under federal law. And then there was Dr Joel Fort Psychiatrist brought him by the prosecution who testified that he considered hers to be a prime candidate for SLA membership. He felt that she had stayed in the group and committed crimes with them definitely own free will. Ford stated that he felt it patty had found a community and the SA. He noted that her background was similar to many other SLA members who'd come from comfortable upper middle class homes forts. Expert testimony was incredibly damaging to Patty's defense, but perhaps the most damage was done by patty herself time and time again on the witness stand, she gave mono-syllabic answers to lengthy questions. She seemed disinterested she invoked her Fifth Amendment right not to answer questions over and over again because she was afraid, she might incriminate herself. She did a total of forty two times after it was all said and done the jury debated for just twelve scooby thought it was minister my nose she debated for twelve very intense hours. Before finding hearst, guilty of armed robbery and the use of a firearm to commit a felony in the end. Many jurors thought Hirst lied about her role in the SA one juror concluded that hers was lying through and through and that no woman would keep a love token from someone who abused her hearse repeated taking the I didn't sit well with yours one explained it was a real shocker. A witness can't just tell you what he wants to tell you and not tell you what he doesn't want to. Hearst was sentenced to seven years in prison for her crimes. She would serve just to in February nineteen seventy-nine newly elected. President. Jimmy. Carter Commute her sentence to time served I'm sure having super rich capitalist fascist pig parents helped with that You know little favor. Then more than twenty years later in the last days of his time in office Bill, Clinton grants hearst a full pardon. Two months after her release from Prison Nineteen seventy-nine hearst Mary's Bernard Lee Shau, a policeman who is part of her security detail during her time on bail, they will go on to have two children, Gillian and Lydia. No word on what happened all Stephen. We'd Oh poor math tutor he just kind of disappears from the story. Patty would go on to do a bit of acting appearing in some feature films for director John Waters who cast her in crybaby serial, mom pecker dirty shame, and CCB demented after patties arrested yesterday officially dies out everyone in the group ends up either dead incarcerated or goes into hiding only to be tracked down at some point by the FBI and imprisoned later today only one SLA member is still alive in jail. The rest are either living free or dead. The this group changed some lives forever in terrible ways it never became into instrument of lasting change that it's few radical believers envisioned a report once asked member Bill Harris after he spent years in prison, what did you accomplish and replied nothing? mainly. What we accomplished is we got ourselves into jail. Randomly in two thousand, Seventeen Patty hearst took home two titles at the Westminster dog show according to The New York Times. Pretty, random. Petty is also comedian podcast or actor and TV host. Chris Hardwick Law. Chris married her daughter actress and model. Lydia hearst in two thousand sixteen Chris. I used to have the same manager and do some tapings together years ago small world. what else is patty hearst up now don't know sixty six year old mother to keep a pretty low profile. Top part of the time line and take a look at the Stockholm Syndrome. Good job shoulder, you've made it back. So, what is Stockholm Syndrome and DID PATTY HABIT? Well, it's made of disease and no, she did not time now for today's top five takeaways. By. Come on now. The super annoying. Any of the show it's not calm. Syndrome is a psychological response wearing a captive began to identify closely with his or her captors as well as with their agenda and demands. Interestingly, the incident that Stockholm Syndrome gets its name from remains pretty obscure outside of Sweden few know the names of those involved in the kidnapping situation that gave the conditions name. Let's talk about real quick and August twenty, nineteen seventy-three less than a year before Patty hearst was kidnapped four bank-workers, Brigada Lindblad, Elizabeth Old Grin Kristen and mark, and Spin Southstream who worked for. Severe Gays Credit Bank in Stockholm hostage in the thirty two year old or taken hostage. In excuse me taken hostage by there we go. Thirty, two year old career criminal Jan Erik. Also later, joined at the bank by a former prison made career criminal Clark Olofsson. Six days later when the standoff ended, it quickly became evident that the victims had formed some kind of positive relationship with their captors. And one phone call from the bank's vault the country's Prime Minister Olaf Palm a bank employee kristen end mark big to be allowed to leave the bank with the kidnappers when Palmer few she said she was very disappointed with him and added. I, think you're sitting there playing checkers with our lives I fully trust Clark and the robber. I am not desperate. They haven't done a thing to us on the contrary they have been very nice but you know off what I'm scared of is that the police will attack and causes to die. Somehow six bank-workers got into their heads that the police were developed not the criminals how? Hostages spoke of being well treated by the robbers and appears that they believed that the owed their lives to the two criminals on one occasion, a Claustrophobic Elizabeth Warren was allowed to leave the vault that become their prison, but only with the rope fixed around her neck, she said that at the time she thought it was very kind of Ulsan to allow her to move around the floor of the bank. When he treated us, well, we could think of him as an emergency God spend saves from was say and the concept of Stockholm Syndrome was born. The phrase was coined by Swedish criminologist and psychiatrist nils beard. Neal's. Jarrett's maybe hang hang hang is hard just figure out the emphasis and the American psychiatrists Dr Frank Oseberg, intrigued by the phenomenon went onto define the syndrome for the FBI Scotland Yard. His criteria included the following I people would experience something terrifying that just comes at them out of the blue, they are certain they were going to die. then. They experienced type of infant infantilism. INFANTILISM they they become babies. we're like a child they are unable to eat speak or go to the toilet without permission. Small acts of kindness that is being given food promise a primitive gratitude for the gift of life. He explains the hostage experienced a powerful primitive positive feelings towards their captor. They're in denial that this is the person who put them in the situation in their mind. They think this is the person who's going to let them live. In short psychologists believed that when a capture threat captives life deliberates and then chooses not to kill the captive. The captives relief at the removal of the death threat is transposed into feelings of gratitude toward the capture for giving him or her life, and it can take only a few days for this to occur. Dr Augsburg stresses that the the true cases of Stockholm Syndrome are rare. Making, identification complicated there are no widely accepted diagnostic criteria to identify the syndrome, which is also known as tear bonding or trauma bonding, and it is not an either of the two main psychiatric manuals, the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders or the international statistical classification of diseases and related health problems. Making identification even further complicated some people who many consider as having Stockholm Syndrome deny having it. Austrian Natasha can. Push. Who was kidnapped as a ten year old by Wolfgang, a trickle pill was held in a basement for eight years in a suburb of Vienna. Crazy suck connection here she was trapped in the basement just an hour and a half away from where monster Joseph Frizzell had his daughter and his daughter granddaughters son grandsons trapped in his basement. And there appears of captivity of these periods of captive excuse. Me Overlapped One another for several years what the fuck is going on Austria anyways. When the TASHA's captured died, she reportedly cried for him and subsequently lit a candle for him as he lay in the mortuary but in a two, thousand, ten interview with The Guardian, Natasha, rejected the label of Stockholm Syndrome. Explaining that it doesn't take into account. The rational choices people make in particular situations. She said I find it very natural that you would adapt yourself to identify with your kidnapper. Especially, if you spend a great deal of time with that person is about empathy -cation, looking for normality within the framework of a crime is not a syndrome it's a, it's a survival strategy. Well whatever you WANNA call it. Survival Strategy Syndrome sounds sounds to me like Patty, hearst probably had it. She had a bunch of fellow Berkeley social activists, surrounding her telling her that her life have been allied day after day telling her that her family was what was wrong with America. Feel bad for had she not been kidnapped. She never committed the robbery she did unless you plan to be kidnapped, which we have no real proof of. What story? Donald freeze after being arrested released eight times after radicalized. Perhaps also been radicalized in prison by some Berkeley students eventually formed his own army, a small army, but still army, and they successfully took a newspaper heiress hostage and to freeze was but one of many revolutionaries who came out during the sixties and seventies in America and fans themselves as savior of the working person was. He a savior I mean, yeah. Negotiated some some food to be given to the poor but other than that. He just wrote and recorded a bunch of corporations or evil in the poor tired of being oppressed and some people have way too much money communist rally points that much cheerleading where he didn't do other than get some meals dished out was offer a better way. What exactly was your revolution going to accomplish? Donald. What if you did tear down the robber barons of the seventies did liquidate bank accounts of the hearse and other billionaires then what? What better system of government would you built in its place? What kind of communist would you have built? One my Stalin's US are maybe one like Pol Pot's. Cambodia. Maybe when like Mao Zedong's China or Castro's Cuba Laos. Laos has been communists hear about them a lot since nineteen, forty, five house that worked out. Now, now, well, if you value free speech and if you'd like to be randomly detained after some kangaroo court, no just fucking throws you in prison for some trumped up bullshit charges. A national happiness index global quality life index up and take a peek at the top twenty nations listed. You don't see a lot of communist nations usually zero why if they're so great? Outside. Of the food extortion situation to freezing army were just thugs posing as revolutionaries. Right? They assassinated a gifted education administrator rob banks wounded innocent customers killing one. Also tried to blow up some cop cars. We didn't even get into that right with police in them. in Alpha Wet. Because they didn't like the government. Don't like it go into politics try and change some things as my kinda wants to do I mean he's fourteen. So it's what he thinks he wants to do, but he wants to make things a little better for the common man by put more funding into public education he wants to stop giving massive tax cuts, giant corporations he wants to regulate frivolous litigation so we can all stop. Amounts of money to insurance companies and lawyers, and be able to lower the price of goods and services medical and dental care. Is that you've got a lot of good ideas is he's a little more socialist lot more probably than his dad. You know he thinks my libertarian ideals to radical but I'd vote for him. what about Patty hearst or is her real role in all of this? Stage you're kidnapping with nothing more than a P is hunch hearsay. I don't think we'll ever be able to prove that. Let's say she didn't do it. Let's say she really was kidnapped can't she truly blame Stockholm Syndrome for all of our actions. I don't think. So actually not a hundred percent had she not been kidnapped you know like I would she have robbed banks now highly doubt it but if someone else had been kidnapped, would they have joined the SLA? So enthusiastically I have serious doubts. I think she was a very extreme leftist Berkeley College kid also a spoiled rich kid who didn't know shit about how the world really worked who mad daddy for coming down on her for having different political opinions and interracial dating I. Think She was twenty years old and surrounded by extreme leftist radicals telling her to burn everything down you know and burned everything down was burning mommy and daddy's empire down I. think sort of teenage rebellion. She was only nineteen when she was captured played a huge part and how all this played out had the SLA kidnaps some forty year old nine no fucking way. Join up with them later I think but I've never been kidnapped so easy for me to say. In the end had it not been her fascist pig parents iron hotshot lawyer she probably would have gone to prison for longer than she did. Even though her parents did fuck up defense a bit. After being prison she sure Shit didn't maintain her SLA. Communist. Ideals. those ones you ranted about recording Senate depressed itchy. Now she's she's part of the best show. Westminster dot crowd now as about as boozy is it gets I'm guessing she has a better one time when I was twenty stories than her fellow purebred dog trainers. And that's all I got. Let's wrap up now with today's top five takeaways for real time. Up. Take Away. Number One, the hearst castle I'm fascinated by this place. One hundred and fifteen rooms thirty eight bedrooms forty two bathrooms theater beauty salon giant, Indoor Roman Pool Sixty eight thousand five hundred square feet, and it's only one of several homes built a giant sprawling property complex. Look something built for a fucking Roman emperor. In this complex originally set on three, hundred, seventy, five square miles of beautiful private land. I get why that nerd Stephen we try to stick around for pancakes. That is some serious wealth. Number two, I doubt many saw Donald David to freeze as ever leading group revolutionaries before he actually did is Shitty are breaking dad he got mixed up in crime at a young age became obsessed with guns and explosives. He quickly had three kids. Also the abandoned get arrested a whole bunch of times finally went to prison and then formed a communist group of revolutionaries and then kidnapped the daughter of a billionaire before you know burning alive during a shootout with police at the age of only thirty. Number three after failing to get their buddies out of prison the SLA used Patty as a bargaining chip to have thousands of poor people fed the hearse family paid out millions to form the organization people in need only to have the attempt backfire into riots and have their daughter Patti criticize him for not providing enough beef or lamb nineteen seventy four was a terrible year for Randolph and Catherine hearst. Number Four. Patricia. Went from a rebellious rich girl to a hardcore beret-wearing machine gun toting child of revolution. She was sentenced to seven years in prison but her sentence was commuted by President Jimmy Carter nineteen seventy nine and since then she's pretty quiet life. Number Five New Info William Randolph hearst Patty's grandfather was the basis for a movie that is topped more best films of all time lists than perhaps any other film nineteen, Forty One's citizen Kane and hearst hated this movie. The thinly veiled unflattering biography of a wealthy tyrant was produced by Orson Welles and put all of her character flaws out there for the public to see them his greed has more weakness the effects of his poor behavior on his friends and family even more loathsome to hearst in his allies was the portrayal of Kane's second wife a young alcoholic singer was strong parallels to hearst's mistress. These showgirl turned actress Marion Davies at the kitchen, a preview screening of the unfinished citizen Kane on January third nineteen, forty, one, the influential gossip columnist hedda hopper wasted no time passing along the news to hearst and his associates that the film was obviously about him. And her then used his leverage to get the films advertising out of the press. I never knew papers also went after wells accusing him of communist sympathies question his patriotism, a hearse onto forbid, his media holdings to advertise the film in any way whatsoever many other Hollywood moguls who for the most part didn't like Orson Welles finding him rude and arrogant supported hearst Louis B. Mayer Co founder of metro-goldwyn-mayer even offered to pay our hail pictures eight, hundred, forty, two, thousand dollars in cash. If the studios President George Schaefer would destroy the negative and all prints of citizen Kane just throw it away Bernard get rid of it shaffer refused at threatened to sue. Though be nominated for nine Oscars and ultimately be heralded by critics as one of the best. If not, the best movie of all time hearst managed to destroy premier, an initial profitability many theaters would not run this movie when it came out of fear of being punished by hearst. Orson Welles said that when he watched the premier in the theater, he sat in an almost empty theater. Time Tough Takeaway away. Hearst man has some power and some influence, but not enough to get their daughter way from the SLA not not in a timely fashion. The Kidnapping Patty hearst has been sucked such an odd unique story. Hope you find it as interesting as I do. Very hard to find a similar tale out there right rich kid gets kidnapped by group of domestic terrorists than joins. The gang helps them rob banks. Crazy Thank you to the bad magic productions team for for help and making time suck every week Queen Magic. Lindsey. Commons Reverend Dr Joe Paisley the script keepers Zach flannery bid Elixir Logan Art Warlock Keith bad magic baroness cade keys running badge Mertz dot com, and the socials. Please join the Colt. Curious private facebook group. If you want some community to go along with this podcast thank you to Liz Hernandez her all seeing is for moderating it. Thanks to beefsteak WHO's now our official ambassador of fun over on this cord. Congrats the sergeant awesome for curly leading round two of times of Trivia game available only space hazards on the time suck up five, thousand, Sixty, eight points, hundred points ahead of second-place very impressive. It's going to be hard to beat, but there is still more attributed come round to doesn't end until Monday September seventh at three, pm, Pacific Time, and that's when round three against. Next week on time such is going to get real. Crazy. WE'RE GONNA return to both California and the nineteen seventies to examine someone way worse than Donald. Freeze we return to the annals of true crime and suck on legit psychopath. The Vampire of Sacramento Richard Chase is it going to be like an Albert Fish y'all Kroll ed camper Chikatilo, kind of suck. We touched on this maniac and the FBI behavioral Science Unit Suck. Chases me called the poster boy for the FBI disorganized killer profile district random. So Extreme Jason, just kill he mutilated. He was a cannibal plus an obsessed consumer of blood and NECROPHILIAC fucking triple crown psychopaths. In, a month long murder spree in the mid seventy S. Likes it was like something out of Clive Barker Nightmares. He butchered total is six men women, and sadly even children in the most heinous aways when police searched his apartment, they discovered that nearly every surface within it was saturated in blood from the walls to his eating utensils. Then there were the contents of the refrigerator. Richard Shea said he needed to kill to save himself from what? The answer is pretty hard to believe. Very hard to believe mostly because they don't make a lot of sense because he was out of his fucking mind join us next week for a suck on a truly darken demented mind in real monster the Vampire of Sacramento. Analysis balls deep into today's time. sucker updates. Times. Our first update count from Super Sucker Alexandra. Ceasar just wants to send some positive thoughts and our prayers the way her friend sucker spaces in solid meet sack. Alexandra. Rights Afternoon Suck Masters Supreme I just got some pretty awful news at friend Nathan Fleck has been pretty bad motorcycle accident while we still don't have all the details we know he's been through surgery and is currently in a medically induced coma his lot of good people by his side we're all rooting for his recovery, but it'll be a long road ahead of him. He's a die hard time sucker space Leonard as well as a huge your stand up maybe more so than I am. I I was really hoping that we could give him a shout-out and just let all the suckers send him as many positive vibes as they can't. He's prime example of a great Muzak who's always there for his fellow humans if this gets to you thank you for the read and keep on Sucking Alexandra Caesar while kind and thoughtful of you Alexandra Nathan I hope you can hear this man hope you're fighting with everything. You've got get the fuck out of the hospital before he kept from covid going on your Rehab. You can get back on that bike hurry up. Awesome friends like Alexandra who are tired of about you. Seriously, we're thinking of you. Hope. You can bounce back hard and quick like Reverend Dr Horse Cock. For Roman get better get better soon data with you. top-shelf sack karston. Anderson. Now has a skin. Walker ranch citing to share with US interest is piqued. Carson writes Hello Master Sucker I just listened to the skin Walker ranch suck and would like to talk about an experience. I had with a skin walker while I lived on the reservation I was driving to a lady's House with my companion L. D. S. mission and saw a range dog like figure standing in the street. We exited the car walked lady's House to talk with her we did. So for about fifteen minutes, this dog was standing there looking at the entire time. As we were leaving. The Lady said be careful as we got back in the truck we noticed the dog or whatever the hell it was left. We turned the corner on the side of the road. We saw the same dog like creature getting up offers its is a weird green yellow yellowish color I feared for my life we drove off as fast as We could I know most people don't believe my story but honestly I, saw it. I. Saw I don't care what say hopefully can share the store in the upcoming suck. Give a shout out to my sexy wife Mattie for help me these hard times keep sucking. Sweet suck this. Thank you Karston and Hello Matty Aka Carson's loose Safina. May You forever tempt him? Stories intents shit man fucking. Did you see that dog the Terry Sherman punched? Seriously ill, there are so many stories like yours. So hope this can walk a ranch suck made. You feel good about that in a weird way I mean what the Hell is going on out there. I I kinda. WanNa see what you you saw also kind of. Ever ever ever ever want to see it. Hell Nimrod and hope whatever's going on that's not good. Turned around soon. Now. We have another skin walker citing coming in from a curious cult member. Joel Schmil end our. Shimin. Joel McCoy Joel Joel S. Kind of a skin walker side maybe not as skin Walker Saudi. Totally. But he does he's shit scared him while he listened to the skin. Walker. Suck anyway. Joel writes my hands are still shaking I was listening to this can walker ranch suck on my way home from my shift at the hospital around midnight the part started playing about Terry, his encounter with the Skin Walker Wolf the Erie music was playing as you dramatically explain what happened as a story came to its end of the music started getting louder a deer jumped out into the road and I, let out an audible screech that I am not proud of. The. There was far enough away that I did not hit it and kept my composure driving. So no harm was done except I need new pants. It's aliens knew the exact moment to send out the deer anyway. Thank you Dan in the universe for Scary Nimrod out of me praise bojangles and Hailu Safina all turned out well, Joe Joe. You painted a picture beautifully there fucking dear. Yes they're cute. But dammit, they are minutes on the road because you never know when they're gonNA pop out. Now I'm always in lookout for little beady glowing eyes at night. So many deer road. We just got a new fence and help keep those assholes out of the art. Crazy. How much they can shit so much shit the my dogs like to eat, and then the dealership makes them shit more. It's Shit Cycle I do not enjoy. thanks for sharing that spooky moments. Now, imagine if one of those who stood up on its hind legs maybe roared at you just gone full Wendy go. To Fund Dot. Now for a hateful message from a stupid. Polish Monster Cameron Cochran. This terrible sub human rights. Dear Master Suck Suck. Later, I take an ice polite shit on you. I'd like to say I started listening to times like a few months ago while searching for podcasts have comedy for years but you helped me survive monotonous slog of work this year. So thank you for that with Nice these out of the way time to get into it. This week's episode on Skin Walker Ranch was grading to listen to as a native Utah born and raised in Salt Lake and having recently moved across country to Maryland. I'm naturally very protective and fond of our beautiful mountains. So when I opened up time suck to see a close to home topic. I was excited until I wanted to drive an ice pick through my ear. They are the Utah, not you and Taw and West. Wasatch Wasatch, fucking these fucking stupid words wasatch not was such. It is insane to me that you said Duchenne just fine. I try. But not the mountains for the whole episode anyway just wanted to get my favorite mush mouth a little hell on behalf of my favorite homestate. As a side note, I love you to talk Polish soon to force you to acknowledge the Polish people's value and bad attitude bears carrying artillery undefeated cavalry hundreds of years. VETOED PILECKI super bad s keep on suck and Cameron just another dumb polack listen Cameron I've. About, the mispronunciation just so you know I, I did add a phonetic guide to all those words however between my own regional dialect and the proper dictionary dot com that's not always matching the cloak will prince. Yeah fucking. Blue. Also I am very impressed that you were able to send this message whoever wrote it to has ever to who whoever was able to take your Polish grunts and gibberish and translate into real human words, and then write those words down man Kudos to them because I could not have been an easy job. To. Seriously, we do need some more post topics and there are a lot of awesome pulls out there. We could talk about some awesome Polish people or what about a Polish serial killer there's gotta be some. I haven't. We set some true crime in Poland yet. I. Think of some additional slandering throw your people's way. He'll Nimrod I'll keep on trying to nail those fucking stupid regional words. Staffer mouth was to fina begun temptress. Now, for some contrarian dots and socialism and also on whether or not, we should judge someone by the norms the times they lived in or by some universal and timeless standard of human decency. Always good to take in contrast opinions super, Sucker Joe Messina writes the following. Hey, Dan love the show my wife introduce me to your podcast and stand up. We met almost four years ago I still listen she does not but I still anyway. I have been in and out of Santa for years myself just never got around to make a career of it. Now I request that you check to make sure bojangles leashes secure because I'm an avowed socialist. Oh, I know I know I hope we can still be friends. Actually I, appreciate your show because I know I. can count on you to challenge my beliefs in good faith, which is something we can all benefit from I have a specific topic I wanna, bring up about the Disney suck. So I won't even go into the social nitty gritty I won't for instance, I. Love This. On the fact that waltz well seemed to have actually destroyed family and the much wealth should never be concentrated and his grandkids wouldn't have to rely on inheritance money. If we all had well-funded universal social programs like single payer healthcare and universal basic income or how the modern Disney corporations near monopolization of the entertainment industry is harmful and indicative of the gilded age or the consequences of the type of union busting. Disney. Did I will not be bringing up any of those in this email that was beautiful. What I wanted to challenge you on his notion that we can't judge people by modern standards and have to look past a lot of their negative beliefs and actions because of the time most likely set meet acts have had great beliefs. Beliefs at all times throughout all of history. It's a good point. People, who make the history books like Disney are presented as so impressive for their wealth and power they acquired that we must look pastor unfortunate. But of the time beliefs or at best we view them as complicated rich famous powerful people get to be complicated. Poor powerless people are forgotten. The truth is not everyone the nineteen thirties and forties thought like Disney. That's. What we're talking about him if that's true innovations, it can also be true of is beliefs and practices, and it is take his meeting with right install i. think it's reasonable to write off. This is just business much like I was just following orders. This reason is too often used to justify evil xr associations if we compare wall to Universal Studios Founder Carl alumnae. No guests on that pronunciation I guess to someone in a similar position at the time waltz actions become even less defensible Carl help hell Carl helped around three hundred German Jewish families which came out to over thousand people, Escape Nazi, Germany, and immigrate to the US. He gave many of them jobs universal, which both made it easier to get approved as an immigrant refugee and to get on their feet and their. New Lives. This wasn't easy to pull off, but we're talking about extraordinary people who stand out I'm sure many average joes and Jones had attitudes about nazi-ism similar to waltz and many similar to Carl's I'm not opposed to considering the context of a time period and why historical figure would have held a beliefs they did. But some things are not acceptable. No matter what time period you're in slavery abolitionist him in what is. Now. The US dates back to the sixteen hundreds, which is when the North American slave trade began in northern states started banning slavery soon after the Revolutionary War that tells me, there is little to no excuse for pro slavery stances especially in the by the eighteen hundreds, the southern states made Thomas Jefferson removed his condemnation of slavery from the declaration of Independence Aaron Bird was a fervent abolitionist where's his fucking musical I? Guess. Burr isn't a catchy title side Note Jefferson and Burr both owned slaves. Now that's what I call complicated. It's okay to admire the Work Disney did but it's also Kedah unequivocally say the bad things he did were bad. This attitude of that's just how people used to think not only excuses the crimes of historical figures but encourages ageism in the form of ascribing bad ideas like racism sexism, xenophobia capitalism agree to disagree. Only two people have certain age groups for generations. People have said stuff like we just need to wait for these old out of touch assholes die out. Then we'll sort all this out which raises the fact that there are a ton of young racist bucks out there plenty of sweeties who are sixty years young or more still doing what they can to make the world a better place. Anyway all this really amount to is that we shouldn't deify historical figures because in the end they're all just. Human when we put people on a pedestal them too much power and that never ends well, I'll even my own side here. This is what gets you communist communist tyrants like Stalin or Mao it was Marx's stupid idea that communism she give temporary Tala -tarian power to one person in a transitional phase, and then that person should give said power you know how humans are, oh, you know how humans are always willing to give up power. We see the same problem on display in the US, decades In the US sorry decades of executive overreach have led the trump and the presidency in general having way too much power for one person back to Disney. His wealth and power led to an exploited workforce at a dangerous monopolize monopolized entertainment industry Disney accounted for thirty eight percent of the box office in two, thousand, nine, hundred, and eight out of ten or eighty percent of the top grossing films the same year. Even if you do love the free market I, don't think this is how it's supposed. To work one company controlling everything no competition. I've a friend who did union organizing work for Disney workers and I can assure you much like most use us corporations, the house of mouse fight tooth, and nail to give as little as possible to the workers who generate their wealth corporations have too much power in this country I think I'll give it a rest there. I. Hope you'll consider somewhat I said here because I believe you're at your best you're questioning everything. Thanks for the show. Keep on talking. While so much Info Joe, where do I begin you make a lot of good points about how you you shouldn't give someone a pass on doing something bad just because he did a lot of good. And that it's not good to deify historical figures However, I also want to become part of today's canceled culture and ignore the the good someone is done because he had some bad stuff too. You know because we all have not that that's exactly what you're saying but with this walt and Leni Riefenstahl Did walt. Install in his home give her a tour of a studio. Yes. was she a Nazi sympathizer? Yes. Had the Holocaust begun yet when she came over no was the focus of films hatred of the Jewish people no. Have you ever had someone over to your house who may have been racist probably maybe a member of a political party with other racist members. I bet you have. We can't know what everyone else thinks even friends are you greatly familiar with the political leanings racial opinions of everyone you've ever had over I. Doubt it ever find out something later about someone like Holy Shit I had no idea so and so was racist or misogynistic xenophobic whatever I have. No one's perfect. That's what you're saying But I also hope that I didn't suggest that I thought well, Disney was perfect. I just refused as described as current notion of opiates. So and so had slaves or so and so she on his wife or so and so was racist sexist whatever. So fuck everything they did. Yes certain heroic people do rise above the time they live in and that is beyond admirable but I bet we could find something wrong with most of those people too. If we look hard enough, maybe they stole something and they spread some, you know bad rumors something. To me while Disney being friendly with the Nazi sympathizer, nineteen, thirty eight isn't necessarily a big deal because I know how I was in international politics. Now, we can look back at that year look what happened in Germany and be like what the fuck but did walt no at the time exactly what was going on maybe but maybe not My son category with me for not knowing what's going on all the time. Politically I tell him I don't have fucking time. I work breaking down stories running a business, a good sixty hours plus a week I try and stay current but there's you know there's only so much time and there's so much news out there walt was a busy dude busier than me. He was managing a huge company out so many productions maybe he didn't really know who the hell Leni Riefenstahl was. I doubt. Her first words to Walter Hi I'm I hit the Jews Hiller highly doubt it. So I. Think you see the point of making here. This is why I don't like to deconstruct heroes too much and to nitpick on certain things, I like heroes I like to be inspired I expect them to be flawed. You mentioned getting so much more attention than his workers and I just think he should is it harder to launch a business than it is hold down a job I've done both and I think it is not that there isn't a lot of value hold down jobs and he didn't just launch a business he launched empire. Why do so many of us applaud that because it's very rare. it's rare to hit over sixty home runs in a season in major league baseball. That's why guys do that get paid a lot more than the guys who don't they bring in more fans more people impressed rare and difficult to be so much better. Than everyone else you can average over thirty points a game for a season, the NBA whoever does that going to get paid a lot more than somebody whoever just two points a game thirty point dude sells more tickets exciting to watch and it's more exciting to talk about someone building one of the biggest media empires in the world then in his talk about someone clocking in on ninety five. I mean the empire builder is a better person than the factory worker, fuck? No definitely doesn't does it mean lead leading anymore unique and therefore intrinsically more interesting suck really life does to me should Disney be able to monopolize the entertainment industry? No, I'm a capitalist but I'm also a big fan of antitrust laws. I'm a fan of regulated capitalism I'm a strong proponent and government regulated capitalism which I know goes against some libertarian views. and Y you give me full podcasts worth of points to address your job. You're clearly very smart. Do I so appreciate you listening to a podcast hosted by some with very different political leanings in a different historical perspective than you do. I love contrasting opinions. I. Don't WanNa live in some kind of. PSYCHO FANTASTIC ECHO chamber. That was a big word I tried to pull off. I think about got eighty percent of it There's too much going on right now people just doubling down a belief they've held for years but never really examined people surround himself with people who only think exactly like they do and I fucking hate it I hate mindless tribalism hate mindless nationalism. Hope, this show always has like you are we thinking about your word for quite some time already have been hail fucking Nimrod Mr Messina. We can get along we get along just fine. Thanks for the updates everyone. Thanks. Times. We all did. Thank for tune into another suck appreciate the continued ratings and reviews. The sucks still gross spy mush mouth haven't lost you all yet new dumb comedy podcast on. Wednesday. Thanks for the feedback has been so fun. So, happy. It's only people like it having a blast with Mr Joe more scared to death Tuesday nights at midnight having fun with it creeps in papers over there. Try Not to get kidnapped this week, and if you do don't start robbing banks and striking out against fascist pigs instead I don't know maybe just maybe just keep on talking. We need to, we need to go up on Hawk and go up to the mountain and grab from the Fascist fucking pigs and take the money and just handed out to the poor. We need to drive cool cars in where and leather jackets with fluffy kind of I. Don't know like what is it like a pilot I don't know, but it's like a cooler. And have changed a silk shirts and bill bottom jeans and platform fuck juice with go fishing motherfucking heels.

Patty hearst Donald Symbionese Liberation Army California America San Francisco hearst publications Patricia Great Grandpa George William Randolph hearst Group kidnapping hearst family United States Los Angeles Berkeley David freeze University of California Berke Menlo College hearst Willie Randy