2 Burst results for "Louis Sockalexis"
Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast
"louis sockalexis" Discussed on Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast
"So can you lay out. What happened or your best understanding of how that name kim to be. Yeah we're going back in two hundred six years worth a history. But you know when i was growing up. I was told that the team was named as an honor to louis sockalexis. Who was a real player who played in the late eighteen ninety s for what was then the cleveland spiders and he was the first acknowledged native american to play major league baseball. There's questions as to whether he was the first but he was largely considered the first one of the time. And what happened was that sockalexis would go. Anybody would play and he eighteen ninety seven. He was something of a he was a phenom. He had a great rookie year. At least for a couple of months then he got hurt and then in eighteen ninety eight one thousand nine hundred ninety kind of became a bench player on the fringe player and then he was released by the eighteen hundred nine spiders who went twenty one hundred and thirty four. No that's not a misstatement. They were the worst team in major league history literally and he was released by that team because he wasn't good enough to play for them and the team promptly folded and then dropped out of the national league. Sockalexis was was a real person and and the story was that owen in nineteen fifteen. They needed an a new name. And so it was supposed to be an honorific to to sockalexis. Well i mean it turns out that that that that's not exactly true sockalexis being that you know. Would what social norms worth. The time people would go out to the ballpark and they would yell racist things at him and i mean we kinda look at that now and go. Let's that's kind of gross but people would go out and do that and it was kind of a buzz thing and you would see that even out of town papers. Instead of team was formerly known as spiders. They would call them by the name. They eventually became called by because of the presence of sockalexis. Because you know that was. That was the team that the native american was on. And so that was. That's what they did and so fast forward and other people kinda know the story of come nineteen fifteen. The team was commonly called naps after napoleon. lanzhou who was their star player and eventually went to the hall of fame and he was a big draw. And you know there was he. He was his contract was sold to Philadelphia and so. The team needed a new name. You can't you know. Be calling yourself after a player now place for another team and the nice sanitize story was that they went. Oh well let's honor the The the native american whip who had played with us. And you know when you pull the the cleveland papers that when they covered it there was no mention of sockalexis. There was no there was there was nothing that was even even talked about there. It was basically just racist cartoons and really really awful imagery that was very stereotyping in the press coverage the next day and you wonder why would they do that well. The owner of the team at the time was a gentleman and charles summers. He would eventually sell the team the next year because business was going bad for him. The team was terrible. He was trying to find something that would kind of bring some buzz to the team. It seems like and so they were looking around. Well what can we call the team. And it seems as though he in some sports writers at the time picked the team name. Because well you remember like eighteen years ago when people user yell racist things at that guy. Wasn't that a lot of fun. And so that was a way to pick some buzz. And you read the the press clippings from the next day and they're like oh it's just a temporary thing we're trying to find something else and you know it's stuck around for one hundred years on so it's the sort of thing you know. Be very careful what you joke about because sometimes things just get carried away in ways that you do not expect. That's the origin story of the actual name. What is the origin story of that origin story. Though how did this idea that this was meant as something. Reverend honorific. Stir to permeate the the cleveland fan base is understanding of its own name. So the best that we've we've seen as that in one thousand nine hundred forty eight The team won the world series and to this state. It's their most recent world series win on. There was a book that was written and it was mostly written this kind of quick turnaround cash in sort of book and it. It had the the story in their of. Oh the that. The name was honorific to sockalexis. And nobody i mean there's there was no there was no source in there. There was nothing in that it just kind of somebody said it and it just kind of became part of what people thought. I mean if there was a a researcher who went into At the western reserve historical society. In cleveland they have the teams media guides and promotional materials. And all that dating all the way back into this timeframe the team didn't even mention sockalexis. I believe until nineteen sixty eight in their own materials. And so i think somebody just kind of said well. This is what it was and everybody went. Okay we'll go with that and it just kinda got repeated enough until people just didn't ask whether it was true or not took some digging to realize that this wasn't the story that we thought it was. And what was your own awakening when it came to the name of the franchise that you grew up rooting for at what point. Did you realize this is wrong. This needs to change. And how did you feel about the fact that it took until whenever that was for you to come to that realization. I had an uncle who was not of native heritage himself but he was very involved in issues around native americans and he he actually was the first one that brought it into my consciousness. And this was. I i was ten or twelve or something like that and at the time. I just kind of went well. That's the you know that's why why. Why are you arguing this way. Why should they change the name. Why should they do any of that. Because that's just kind of the way the names always been and in my mind justified it with world. There's no actual racism behind it. And i look back at that and i cringe because that was a stupid thing for me to think back. Then i mean i. I look back on the scoreboard graphics. That were up there that kind of traffic and really racist stereotypes. The logo obviously a on the you know the cheers and the chance and things like that. I think that one of the best arguments actually for leaving the name behind is that i became very very just in your to the fact that all of this was going on and that it was so pervasive that i just did think it was weird and i didn't have the ability to take a look around and say you know how would this look to someone else and especially somebody you know who was either very involved in in The native american community or was of native heritage themselves and once. I had that moment where i said you know this is. This is kind a gross. i. I started sailing. Or maybe i. Maybe i need to rethink my own position. Even if this is something that that i grew up with you know sometimes when you grow up you realize that not everything was what you thought. It was at the time some of growing up is leaving things behind that you need to leave behind and the for me. That was one of them. You know the racist uncle stereotype. You just gave us the anti-racist different direction coming no he was and you know looking back..
The Sports Reporters
"louis sockalexis" Discussed on The Sports Reporters
"This is yet another day than what what are we here. Really guardians of the sports universe. Are we guardians at the gate. We are. I think this is a very interesting topic i of i. I couldn't believe the nickname. Because people in cleveland understand what it's all about. It's all about us. This is to what did they objects whatever they are. I this bridge in cleveland and and and called the guardians and after all that hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of a possibility stay they settled on this day or they will be known as two cleveland guardians after all this essentially of being known as the indians the so. That's for them that you know they go. They want to be guardians. It can be the guardians. We can laugh at the stew but the issue is okay. Here's a major sports team. That has taken a major step Second one and within a year and And are others out there with with native american names. What is the future for them. Do we think that in three four five years there will be golden state. Warriors atlanta braves kansas city chiefs at cetera. Mitch let me ask this to mitch. Albom okay because this is something that that. I've been thinking about mitch. Don't you find it interesting to to see how this discussion gets par st- where braves and warriors that's different from redskins and and like they can stay but the other ones have to. I just starting to think that that. If if one of goes r tube of goes to they all oughta go well. I think once you've gotten rid of indians you've pretty much have killed the category i think. Any derivative thereof pretty category is gone all of all of the every two hundred to four hundred to six hundred thirty eight hundred daily. Double are all out okay. They're all out and it's just a matter of time. You can't if you've got rid of indians you've got to get rid of braves you've got to get rid of warriors. What about the ski resort squaw valley. You realize they changed their name. Squaw valley was it was an olympic Decide i believe Ramos famous skiing. Took place there. And you're gonna say it took place at squaw valley. It doesn't exist anymore. They changed the name. All of these things are going to go in time. It's just a question of when somebody decides to put pressure on in the case of the indians you know. I think it was a little bit of what you're seeing with. Large corporations there there advised by their people who are all into for the money. We need to do this now and get ahead of it yet. Here the lawyers. We need to get ahead of it. Let us be proactive. Let us come across it. It could give a rip one way or the other about what their team is really called as long as nobody's making a fuss about it but as soon as they might get protested they just have all right. Let's get out in front of it and let's come out and say you know. We are forward thinking progressive. We recognize social injustice inequity and all and bubble ball all the buzzwords that are saying. Let's change our and for the truth of it. Is who gives it. You know before. I mean in the end you know outside of the fact that i'm trying to imagine guardians win guardians win. It sounds terrible but okay eventually ten years from now twenty years from now everybody will be used to that. Is there anything that makes more. The lakers somehow make more sense yankees thunder thunder weird names when you think as utah. The utah jazz in new orleans. Jazz made sense before we oxymoron. I need to point out that quickly from wrong but or misinterpreted. Something the irony here. Is that the indians. Nickname was intended as a tribute a postal attribute in a different place. In time it was named. This is bizarre. I always thought it was strange. Anyway after louis sockalexis an indian native american from the state of maine who was a wildly popular player. Not even that good because most people who follow baseball have never heard of him. But he was because of louis sockalexis at the indians. Who were the spiders before that. And maybe something else in between We became the indians back sometime in. Turn to the century and argue. It was it was attributable. You want but it doesn't matter. I'm just saying admits was going on chiefs. Kansas city chiefs golden state warriors Atlanta braves desktop to those always saying that it the irony is intended in a different world as a tribute but now it is an insult intended at. We've got a team in. Cincinnati that honors communist on. That's not that kind of reg with the cincinnati. Changed their name from the red legs from the time they would. They change your name. They went by the red legged. Red sox white sox i up. There are all kinds of weird okay. We're going to get to our parting shots. I can't resist this though. This is a fun. Fact casino bob. You're gonna lead off. Go talk about the boston. Red sox Do you know the last time that a no hitter was thrown in fenway park. Yes i in opposing guy to strike out. Yes i know was ted williams. Giovanni long ago it was ted. Williams made the final out of that game in nineteen fifty with that with that as a backdrop with that. I mean i sometimes you just like to set things. Up mel with that as a backdrop. This week's parting shots are brought to you by geico whether you rent her own geico makes it easy to bundle home car. Insurance go to geico dot com. Today bob ryan leader saw baseball. No sport.