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The Tim McKernan Show Ep. 145 - QFTA John Mozeliak's Comments About Lambert
Yes. Yes. Welcome into another dish, the mckernan show on the inside of steel podcast network. I'm your host Timothy Michael McCartney. We're in the hormone expert dot com studios, and it's questions from the audience day. And I love questions from the audience day as I say every time we have questions from the audience day. It's just me in the microphone Jack just me in the microphone, Jack and got some good questions today. So I'm looking forward to getting into them. And and I guess for those of you because it seems like the the vast majority of the questions that I get are kind of Saint Louis region Centric and both of these questions that we are going to attempt to Akyl today are Saint Louis region Centric, so for those of you who like that. That's what you will get this my opinion inevitably it will lead to some Banti ISM it in. And I think we'll get Bantea some from quote unquote, both sides, although I'm not necessarily talking about democrat Republican. I'm just kind of talking about like factions of Saint Louis so to speak so it's a no win play. But that's that's fine. I'm essentially a gentleman who exists in my base. -ment? So these are my opinions, and it doesn't mean that I want to attack you if you don't share my opinions, although I imagine I'll get attacked because you don't share mine, but that's the nature of the piece sometimes and social media and impersonal conversations via Email. So it goes either way I'm glad that we have the opportunity to discuss them and in do so in an unfiltered manner, and it's all provided because people like Ryan Kelly, the home loan expert dot com who sponsors the podcast and has since the very beginning. Thank you Ryan Kelly. Thank you for making this podcast possible podcast. That has doing interviews with what I would say are pretty big name guests in the Saint Louis area and even beyond Saint Louis this week and last week of the rare to part of the first ever to partner with young page views, a Saint Louis native, Ben Freedman of barstool, and and coming up Wesley bell, the newly elected Saint Louis prosecuting attorney, Dan, dear door, the pro football hall of Famer slash broadcaster. Along with a bunch of interviews here with it at this point. We've talked with damn near everybody that I've wanted to talk to and we started the thing, you know, ranging from governor Jay Nixon Senator Jack Danforth Bill the wit, Tom Stillman two hall of famers. Whether they be members of the cardinals or blues or soon to be hall of famers in the case of members of the St Louis Rams with Isaac Bruce. So the producers of the program have done an incredible job. And we have those for you every Sunday night. And then we have the questions from the audience on Wednesdays. And then the pick six podcast, which is our football picked podcast. And even though I kind of you this the podcast is like, yeah, we're just guessing and flipping coins, and hitting I gotta tell you something not because it's me. But because I've got a guy who legitimately studies the stuff I'm like sixty one percent. I think against the spread. And I went six in this past week and producer. Joe went six and this past week and even g unit and now. There is a fade g unit t shirt out there. He went four and two. So now inevitably what's going to happen. Now is that we're on this heater of going a combined show sixteen in two and Joe, and I go a combined twelve know that we will have a disastrous weekend coming up, but Joe's like fifty six or seven percent against the spread. Now, sixty sixty one percent against the spread. That's that's really good. But again, I want to make it clear. I got credit my guy because I you know, one of my picks was Kansas against Kansas state this past weekend. I wouldn't know the first thing about picking Kansas. But hey, he's been on it. God bless him guys on a heater. So anyway, there's the schedule here on the Tim mckernan show. And now we're doing a hot stove show with Dan McLaughlin once a week. It's a separate project. But you can watch it on Facebook live, and you can watch it on periscope on Twitter, and we'll do that twice a week starting in spring training. But once a week now through the end of January and with this off season having so much anticipation and some. Anxiety. I think for cardinal fans. I think it's a good thing that we're going to be doing this because there seems to be news throughout the course of the off season, and Dan, and I will be able to break it down and chats with people on Facebook live and on periscope. So follow the hot stove show on Twitter with me, and Dan McLaughlin, and you could follow it also on Facebook. And that's where you'll be able to watch it. Plus, we put the podcasts of each one of our episodes up on our respective podcasts. Mind, the one you're listening to the Tim Kernan show in Dan's scoops with Danny MAC. So that's what we got going on. In addition to a week from Friday night the night after thanksgiving Friday night, Dan, McLaughlin, and I have a sweet for the blues and predators game. Now that Friday night after thanksgiving is always a pony in Saint Louis because people come town for the holiday weekend. And so now, you can hang out in a sweet. And we what we have is an all inclusive setup. We have a private bartender our own personal bartender. We have gourmet food it starts ninety minutes before the game. And and we have a suite for the blues and for the predators. So if you are interested Goto event bright that come and type in my name type and Dan McLachlan's name. Whatever is hockey nights. Presented by Bud Light and get yourself some tickets as portions the proceeds go to benefit the true charity. Dan has worked with for fourteen years from now mistaken, that's a special education foundation. We did the event with China's airlock earlier this week, which you can listen to by the way on this podcast network. The QNA with John Mozelle ach and that was at the improv shop with portions. The proceeds going to benefit three little birds for life. The charity I have worked with for a number years. Dan's worked with the special education foundation. So that's the charity were working with on that event's called hockey nights. Presented by bud lights and the tickets include all of your food all of your beverages. Ninety minutes before the game all the way to inclusion a game me and McLaughlin, hanging out in this sweet with you. And ideally, some of your friends looking forward to that. So get your tickets at event, bright dot com. And in addition, I should make make note of this. That were in the Ryan Kelly homeowner expert dot com studios, and you know, I know James Carlton's been a sponsor for the the the very beginning of the the show, and that's great. It's lovely to have sponsors because without sponsors. We don't have a show. But the thing that I would wanna point out to people is this that I have made the switch to James Carlton. And so therefore now I can speak to you from a firsthand experience with James Carlton state farm insurance agent three one four nine six one forty eight hundred or online at Carlton insurance dot net. And so I got together with James now that I've switched to him, and this is just a personal anecdote, but it conveys how good he is at his job were sitting there having lunch, and this is just last week not even a week ago. And and he brings a bunch of notes. He said, listen, he goes, you really have good coverage. But you're missing one thing. And he told me what it was. I don't know if I should go into what it was not a huge deal. What does he didn't have it? But you know to go into any os. I really think that you ought to you ought to get this. And here's why and he laid it out. And I'm what I was thinking was well, yeah, you're right. I should. But what I was thinking is. Wow. I can't believe that. I didn't have this coverage. And that is why James is different than everybody else. He is an active partner as your insurance agent. I think I would imagine almost everybody listening has an insurance agent. But it's probably somebody, you know. And you just kind of like, yeah. I gotta get insurance was a matter. You know? But here's the difference with him. It's it's the service. It's the knowledge of the industry and just that right there. I switched for a reason. And it wasn't like, hey, I'll advertise if you switch to me. It was I I've seen him in an action he handled one thing force, and it was handled. So well that I thought my responsibilities to my wife and my son. I gotta do what's best for us. And not, you know, just stick with somebody's. Because that's what we've been doing forever in James is gonna put us in a better spot. And that's why we did it is number three one four nine six hundred forty one hundred or go online at Carlton insurance dot net, James Carlton, if your insurance costs a leg and arm, then call James Carlton state farm. All right. Two topics today. And I'm looking forward to getting into the both even though I am -ticipant a negative reception to either or both of them. But so so it goes, it's what what's what I really think. And so that's what I will say one thing is is more of a fan page thing. Because. It got into our Q and A, which if you haven't listened to as I said it's on. It's it's one of the podcasts here on the Tim occur and show the Tim occuren- endemic Laughlin QNA presented by bud slick with John Zarrella in this gentleman road on the fan page. I'm usually a lurker, but I have a mini rant based on the discussion about the lack of Lambert flights being a possible small contributor players not signing with the cardinals. And this was in reference to what John Zarrella said he talked about the airport being an issue specifically. And I think in a way it was kind of like a throwaway comment, but he did say that it would help if there were more direct flights, and there was a reaction from the audience when he said it kind of like laughter and like, oh, man. I can't believe he said that. And this gentleman says I've heard this lack of direct flights. Brought up a number of times over the years on the show. With regard to your average person flying. Does don't get this complaint at all in the past few years? I flown direct. And then he. This a number of cities where are these mysterious cities that people can't get a direct flight to hate on Lambert main terminal you want for being a ghost town late at night from what I can tell south west is thriving here. Opening more and more gates in terminal two, and they have a ton of direct flight options are people just dead set on flying American or something and then get upset when they don't have a direct somewhere. They wanna go or they booking last minute. And the director sold out to the TV networks force employs take the cheapest possible flight option, which ends up being the one with two layovers direct. I just don't get the complaint otherwise. So I appreciated the way he phrased it because he you know, I mean, so many times we're talking about a topic. We don't know so much, and I think when you're coming from a place of seeking an answer or seeking information. Your question will be received better if it doesn't come off with some kind of what you usually see on social media. No at all. And then like an attack on either a person or. P a group of people who have one view that you don't particularly share. So I appreciate that. And is somebody who with both TMA, but I guess more. So with this podcast have been who's been lucky enough to interview, you know, government leaders in the area. It's a conversation. That's come up a few times here on the show regarding Lambert. I I know recently, I can't recall with whom but I feel like I can picture the person the privatization of Lambert, certainly being a topic. But Lambert is was Joe Straus may rest in peace when a his favorite topics. So here, here's where I know that I'll lose some people. But but it comes from a good place. And then I'll then I will give you my a response to what the gentleman wrote because I spent a good amount of time on it, even though I know it won't be received real well in L explain why don't think it will be received. Well, so here. For whatever reason. And I don't know why this is, but the way things are at this particular moment in Saint Louis history, and it is in my opinion, substantially different than thirty years ago. And then if you wanna take thirty years off that and then go back into the fifties substantially different from where Saint Louis was we're in a weird spot because as I've said a number of times, I would by Saint Louis if it were a stock at this point, and there's two ways to take that in both ways apply to my statement. You don't buy stock. When you think it's value is at its highest that would be a bad by you buy stock when you think it's valued its lowest, and then therefore it has implied value. And then also if you believe that the stock, of course is going to increase in value. So part of it is an acknowledgement that the stock value is low. And then also the positive is is that I think it is going to turn around in some capacity. It's in part because it can only get better. But another I just see things that I think are positives. You know, I saw an article wish I could pull it up. And maybe I can because I think that there's some value to it. And that is a list from the Brookings institute that America has many highly inclusive digital places, but fewer also inclusive of America's many highly digital places, but fewer also inclusive. These eight cities have the best tech opportunities for women minorities and workers without a college degree. And it cites a number of cities in Saint Louis is one of those cities. So my whole thing that I keep going back to with startups is the tech startups. Now, it's some people pulling out his twos. When. They take off then they relocate and leave Saint Louis, but I think that that is a very healthy situation for our region that that is considered nationally in perhaps globally something that Saint Louis bringing to the table. The other thing that I think has great values that people acknowledged now in Saint Louis, not everyone but saw MC knowledge that we have problems here. Then you have a faction of people who just go. Oh, it's just invoked hate on Saint Louis, and then just kind of dismiss it. And I would point out that at this point. If you think everything here is going great. But that's great. I just think that most people would tell you that in I'm talking about people in whether it be business or politics that that is not necessarily the case. But despite that, there's this odd thing, and it's kind of gone on over the last fifteen years or so that if you're critical of something that means you don't love it. Now, I would suggest that if you're critic. Title than that means that you care. So with regard to the specific question, this is what I what I would say. And what I did say in my response personally. I thought there were two super candid moments from John Moselle like Monday night, number one. When he said build a wit was not happy with him with regard to finishing as the bridesmaid so often with renewed a free agents and then number two when he brought up the issue with Lambert outta nowhere. Now, I've asked the question about Lambert as to why it's an issue because while it's a combination of depressing in one sense. But then like, sadly, convenient that there aren't a bunch of people around when you land in comparison to other top twenty five markets airports. It's something that gets brought up often by business travelers and people who are not from here, but who fly here now it's easier to make fun of the criticism and dismiss it because that is worked so well for us here. In Saint Louis over the last few decades as we've sword behind Indianapolis and Nashville, but in hosting a show in which we discussed the issues why they're deemed problems. And then when having these people on the show, see what they gather our solutions. It's something that I wanted to get a better idea on why it's a problem in some people's minds. So in looking into it for the average, Saint Louis who flies more for pleasure than for business. You would never really think much of it. You look at the south west schedule. That's what most people I think do at this point is that's certainly the main air airline in Saint Louis find the route with a few stops. Best departure time and least expensive fair. And then you hit click, and that's how the vast majority of non business travelers myself included travel in and out of Lambert really have for the last decade. Plus now going back to two thousand when I was working a Cam Lovie for five years, and we were travelling with the Rams and the cardinals and the blues and Missouri and Saint Louis U, and they would be in the NCAA tournament. I think if I had to go back from memory. I would tell you that I flew non southwest flights more in that five year period then southwest flights. And even though it was only thirteen years ago. It seems like a totally different era. But it was it was a totally different era. And so there were a couple of times that I can specifically recall for blues playoff trips one in the year. They win the presidents trophy in two thousand when they were playing the sharks that we had to fly through Minneapolis to get to San Jose. And then we had to in two thousand three when they were playing the Knox we had to fly through Phoenix. So we're going all the way down to rezone to get to Vancouver. And so, you know, the the those are two examples, and so yes, I realized you could certainly fly without question can fly. I don't even know where you can't fly from Saint Louis. The issue is the direct flight. The usher the other issue is the. Options so therefore from a timing standpoint and an airline standpoint. And then if you're a business traveler, or if you are an employer there are a number of people who travel so much for a living that they at that point have the ability to sit in business class refers class. Now, this is where we get into this weird thing, which will actually be my second question for questions from the audience today regarding I don't know what the right term for it is. And I know this one I'm really going to get hate on. But I feel strongly about it. So we'll talk about it, which is like this anti success sentiment, especially for young people in Saint Louis where if like you're doing well for yourself you almost have to hide it. And then the people who actually aren't doing that great. Somehow kind of go rap game on it. And then start flashing in. It's almost like ambition initiative are discouraged here. And I don't get it. And it's not by certainly everyone. It's by a sliver. But yet, I notice it, and it's an. Odd thing. Whereas like, there's a population of people in Chicago, you think about it for examples is a near example. And now, I'm being told about Kansas City, where it's like it's like encourage, and it's like, it's like the the in thing to do is to, you know, get out of college. And then like, you know, do as well as you possibly can you know, and in having an heaven certain amount of pride and trying to create or be an entrepreneur. And then if you are successful snout like you have to apologize with with a sarcastic, hashtag blessed. So so we'll get into to that element of it. But that's a factor because why well if you fly southwest there is no first class. There is no business class. And I don't personally give a damn about it. I just don't wanna middle seat myself at this point with a one year old. It's not like, I'm flying everywhere. All the time anywhere. It's it's not a big deal for me. But I'm looking at it from a regional standpoint. And that is a legitimate issue is somebody posted in this thread. Let's see this gentleman does not live in Saint Louis, but he's a Saint Louis native. And he said we have international companies in Saint Louis travel for companies like Emerson is a major major problem. But I mean, if you're going to isolate it in John Mozelle accent regarding agency, I personally am surprised to hear that. Because if you're going to sign an eight figure or nine figure contract, you're probably going to be flying out of spirit on your own plane, or at the very least on wheels up or net jets. And you're not going to be really worried about flying commercial. But if you are trying to find family in, you know, it can it can be you know, it can be quite an odyssey at times because you're probably not going to have the vast selection of non stops that you would have from other top twenty five markets. So when I laid out that case, you know, I listed the top twenty five markets in the country in in some people. And I and I say the stuff like secondhand because when you're in television as I was at the time, you know, what the the markets. Because that's what you're doing for a living. You know? So it's like, okay. When I started in Little Rock, it's market fifty seven I had an offer from Monterey, California. Also as a first job it was like Mark at one fifteen at the time Austin at the time was sixty and I would imagine or Austin Texas shooting up those rankings Saint Louis is Mark montavani said when he was in was number ten as far as market size. And this wasn't that long ago. Saint Louis is now number twenty one. But I list the top twenty five markets in the has nothing to do with airports. It's more about region's population size. And when for those of you who have traveled in these airports. It's New York L A, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, San Francisco, Washington, Houston. Boston Atlanta, Tampa, Phoenix Detroit. Seattle Minneapolis Miami. Denver Orlando Cleveland Sacramento, Saint Louis, Charlotte. Pittsburgh Raleigh-Durham and Portland. I would imagine most of you would agree if you do travel that Saint Louis options in comparison to those other top twenty five markets would be on the low side. Side, they have multiple airports, and there are more multiple some have airports, but multiple airlines is what I meant to say. And then therefore with multiple airlines you have options than also options outside of south west you have the ability for business class. But even if you're not flying business class, and you're flying coach to not be pinned in on. I want to fly nonstop. It's got to be at six in the morning, or it's got to be an eight at night, or if I am gonna fly from Saint Louis to take your pick of not Chicago or Dallas or Lanta. I've got a stop in Chicago Dallas or Atlanta in order to get to X Y or Z again. This is not an across. The board statement is a question brought up by with John was brought up with regard to Lambert. So I went on to say those of us have been to some of these airports listed above in part one. We might say things like shit hole or Denver's airport is so far from the city but specific to what the complaint is from business travelers. Okay. That's that's I think to me the difference here. Because is is guy. Just like travelling like, okay? We're gonna go to Las Vegas for the weekend. It's like, okay whenever we fly we fly. But if it's business or if you are the actual business in your flying, your employees or your flying people to Saint Louis, it's an issue. And so even though the the original question was regarding Mozelle X question. He said the average traveler, but yes, that's the average traveler, but that's not what we're talking about here. When you're talking about what Mozelle ox bringing up the difference between these markets and Lambert Airport is the option for multiple airlines direct flights. So if you want to dig it down further, and this would fall into the category of my second question, which personally, I think hurts Saint Louis in some capacity, but for those who are able to fly first class or business class. You do not have the option on south west, which is the main carrier in and out of Lambert. And finally, you have nearly no direct international flights from Saint Louis. Like literally now that the Icelandic flight is going to be going. Away here in the next couple of months few even wanted to count that. So I'm only speaking for myself on this particular point is someone with a one year old and who travels to one of three states, and that's about it. I'm quite happy with my three hour nonstop to Las Vegas via south west or the nonstop options to West Palm Beach Fort Myers. The only other place we really goes Hilton Head, and that's just not going to be ideal. No matter where you are. Because Hilton Head is a very small airports here, either flying into Savannah, Georgia, Charleston and industry having nature of the beast, but the beast, but the criticism of Lambert is not about an individual's pleasure travel so much as it about business travel. And this is my analysis. The discussion with Mozelle lock came up when I asked him about Saint Louis being a destination for big time free agents now, so I asked the question who have been the biggest free agents to come to Saint Louis over the last few years. And I think we would agree if we're talking last few years Dexter Fowler. Now, what happened with extra Fowler? He didn't really want to come to Saint Louis per sources at least in comparison. Jason to what I think were San Francisco and Toronto as other major pursuers at the time. So Saint Louis had to give him the extra year in money to get it done after eaten at a meeting went to the national's for king's ransom. I believe that similar Christian yelich this past off season two off seasons. Go the cardinals preference was at a meeting. But then the nationals paid the White Sox and prospects of price at the cardinals. I don't think we're anticipating being the cost of getting Atta meeting. Do. I think Dexter Fowler had hesitated about Saint Louis because of the airport. No, I think for someone who's going to make nine figures or close to it. They went to live and raise their families in a city that matches the lifestyle they want for themselves and their families. And I completely understand it and for many who make that kinda money. It's going to be a coastal city or a major growing city. And that is why asked the question lock. That's why I wanted to see if like Saint Louis perceived reputation when you're digging down to do I wanna live there or not is a factor in the cardinals not landing the big name free agents over the last x. Amount of years. I never thought that the airport figured into play. So it was surprising. When Mozelle I brought it up. Now, of course, ironically with regard to Fowler. The reason that the TMA fan page broke the story that he was coming to Saint Louis is because one of the members of the fan page actually shot a picture of him in the cattle call line for a southwest flight from McCarron in Las Vegas to Lambert with regard to any solution, which is what separates the men from the boys and those on the sideline from those who dare to step in the arena, I view it as a chicken and egg discussion. In addition to our conversation on Josh Holly last month, we had lunch Jack Danforth asked me this incredibly open ended question that I made reference to earlier on a podcast, which was so what do you think of Saint Louis, and we laughed about how vague the question was. But I'm sure that was his intent make it open ended. And I expressed the same optimistic view that I shared earlier that startup companies have found a welcoming welcoming climate in Saint Louis and a young creative class. Many of whom are not from here will. Only help the region he agreed with that part. But he said it concerns him how many of the big companies have moved out of the region over the last couple of decades and talked about how not only those companies are important from a tax standpoint. But also the domino effect. It has in other words as recently as the eighties and early nineties yet people that many of our parents can cite as the people who you knew would represent Saint Louis New Yorker LA when shit was going down, and they would take care of business for Saint Louis. The name Bob Hyland is one that I'm familiar with. My dad would always bring his name up Danforth did as well at lunch, and because he made his Mark in the industry in which I work. I'm certainly familiar with his name. Although I never met them in Highland. Ran came a wax. And he was just an absolute force both at came wax in leader in Saint Louis amongst others. And that goes back to a common I often make when we have this discussion on the podcast regarding the void of leadership in the region. And it's it's a it's a rhetorical question. And I ask myself the question, but I mean, who do you think it is deal? Is it lie to Cruzan? Is it Steve stinger is it? Governor Parsons Senator blunt is it soon to be Senator Holly. I mean, you get the idea as I'm listening, those people, I don't think, and it's it I know it can come off as a shot it's not intended to be shot. But as I give those names to any of those inspire, you I mean, honestly, do they I I think in an probably in some cases, you're kind of cringing. And so there's there's there's my point the league leader doesn't have to be a politician Highland. Wasn't a politician. However, you want to have someone who gets things done and speaks on behalf of the region for the greater good in Danforth's contention is and was that Saint Louis had with these business leaders, we had leaders and now many of those businesses are gone with fewer business travellers. You have fewer flight options going back to the chicken and egg. If Saint Louis were to have what had had going as recently as thirty years ago. I'm quite certain the flight options would be better at Lambert. But it's economics. There isn't much of a demand. So there isn't a supply now specific to it impacting baseball's elite free agents, I think it wouldn't even. Crack the top ten on why they would choose the city over Saint Louis why because a fly private, but I have never run a baseball team and tried to sign require David price. Jason Heyward, Giancarlo Stanton. Or even had conversations about why they are considering another city over Saint Louis. So I have to yield Mozelle ach a person who has done at new actually brought it up and from my standpoint, the bigger issues or these two number one the amount of money the cardinals willing to put on the table and number two the individual and what the individual once in the case of the four biggest names to choose Saint Louis over the last twenty years when they could have gone elsewhere McGuire admins, Roland holiday, they all had kids and worth the latter portion of their career now, of course, most free agents are going to hit the market at that time. That's the way the system works. But for those wanting to raise a family, you often hear how great Saint Louis and on top of it. If you're looking at McGuire ninety seven Edmonds in two thousand role in two thousand two and holiday in two thousand nine the team was winning at a level that they are not now when Maguire came team was one win away from. Playing in the World Series in ninety six an Edmonds came here, and he didn't sign immediately was traded here. But then he loved that group of players in two thousand and obviously they won Rolan came here. The cardinal's gone the playoff two straight years and holiday comes here in the cardinals great team in two thousand nine but they just faltered in the postseason getting swept by the dodgers. But to get one of those players and look at a big time player choosing Saint Louis you've got to go back nearly a decade holiday. And that's why I think the free agent element of this off season is so intriguing because I think for some Saint Louis since consciously or subconsciously a big time player choosing Saint Louis over all of these other bigger cities are growing regions would be a boost for the morale of the area. It won't get us more flights out of Lambert, but it would be some form of win. And for those of us who live here, we know we have some legitimate issues. But we also have a lot to offer in the great news is there's a recognition of the problems now and a desire to actually get to work to find solutions. And that is the first step. So I welcome your thoughts on it. And I know it can lead to long emails, and when you send a long Email. I sincerely I do. I read it. I really actually enjoy reading them because almost every one of the emails that I get they're not like the kind of like motherfucker emails that you would usually get like when you write a column or something along those lines or do a podcast, even though I know that the opinion might not be popular. Because if there's one thing that can get people little upset it's criticism Saint Louis, but if it's one of our own doing it, it's more welcomed than if it's somebody who's not from here, which, you know, take it or leave it. I just believe that to be the case. So they're plenty of flights out of Saint Louis. It's just the majority of them are southwest flights. And and then it also limits nonstop, and then of course, there are no first class or business class options. So, you know, the tough thing is is then you're getting into talking about. Money and or socioeconomic economic status which then gets me to the second question. I wrote earlier in in that manifesto regarding the airport about the first class element. And and then that led to somebody writing in you said that you think that's a bad thing for Saint Louis. We pull it up. What did you mean by that? And so this is some I've talked about it with a few people. And it's a weird thing. And it's it, but it's I have to tell you. It's something I feel strongly about, but it's an odd thing. Because it I just know I just know it's an odd thing to talk about in in probably zero upside play. But it's something that I speak about often. I spoke about it when I was in my twenties. And now that I'm in my forties. I still speak about another words the goalposts don't move just because my demographic has I'm going to continue to get older unless there becomes some kind of Benjamin button phenomenon, but it's not going to change my mind on this Saint Louis is going to prosper when Saint Louis has a young in vibrant, professional community. And right now for many young professionals if they do go to college and graduate from college coming back to Saint Louis, even if they are Saint Louis natives and their families live to Saint Louis is now. Not necessarily what many want to do. It's not to say all I think you probably if you were taking like university of Missouri graduates. I would imagine the percentage would be higher. But if you go to a school outside of the Saint Louis area and just for the sake of the discussion will include Columbia, Missouri in there more often than not you will see people spend their twenties in take your pick. Chicago, certainly I would imagine it would be number one. But I would also include Denver Dallas, some New York some L as a Miami. Whatever the case might be. And so the QNA on Monday night with John was airlock after missile-like was done, Dan. And I were asked some questions one of the questions was about the S. And the reason why I am. So I don't have any so high on but excited about the LS is because so often you have a younger fan base. And it kind of becomes a social event for younger people at some. Of these MLS franchises. And listen, I love the cardinals the cardinals Hawaii got into broadcasting. But I mean, you know, if you if you do watch other games in baseball in compare the crowd at Busch stadium to you know, certainly Wrigley field would be an easy example. But you know, you're picking a variety of other. And it's just it's a little more energetic. And that's just because Saint Louis is a little older. It's just the way that it is. But again, I know saying this is going to piss people off, and it's one of the things like, but but but the goal is to have the conversation and at the risk of having an honest conversation comes criticism, and I'm fine with that. I shall take it, but I feel strongly about it. And one of the reasons why the morning grind, which was the first morning after was formed was because I'm sitting here at the time twenty four years old, and I'd be driving into work, and I'd go my God. There's not anything on in Saint Louis that caters to a twenty four year old. It's it's just like for it's for older people. I thought it was really odd. And I'm like, this is the twenty first market in the country. So my premises young people. Now, there's some slivers of young people certainly having a Mazda representation, but they're like slivers of the community. I just feel like young people have either been ignored or young people haven't really had their voices heard or tempted to have their voices heard as a real force in the region. I think it's in the best interest of the region for that to be the case. And that now I still say even though I'm now forty two years old. And so when I look at for example, Chicago is an easy example or Denver, or as my making reference to what Senator Danforth said, he sees Kansas City, and you go my God. And then now, it's Indianapolis and Nashville Louisville what's going on what has caused it. And there's certainly a lot of political factors. Whether it be with the mergers in those particular areas or just the job opportunities in the dollars that are there and the job market in those particular places that. Separated? And I understand that. But one thing that I just I've I've, and it's an odd thing. And in a also wanna make it clear because at this point is the father of a one year old. It's not like, I do not like those kind of like, you know, charity events that are really like, you know, social events under the guise of charity of at type thing. Let me get my picture and being alive magazine type thing that's not my bag. So I'm not going to this stuff. And so it in some corners. You might go out Tim, I think this is outdated. I don't think this is the way that it is anymore. And if that's the case that is great. But from my perspective in talking with people who I would consider in the demographics so mid to late twenties about this. For whatever reason. And I don't know what the reason is. And I welcome. A combination of either theories your thesis or just flat out disagreeing. It is my feeling that there is a healthy amount of. I don't know what the right word the right word for it would be. I'm going to give it a good long thawed. Let me give it a good long thought. It's like the Doug von library pause. Pushback. Subtle pushback against ambition for young people not on why that is. But I just notice it, and I'm not talking about like, you know, like one of the running jokes on the show, which also certainly outdated is a reference to parties in the park, which I guess still goes on. But it's this thing in Clayton since some of your priority familiar with it where it's kinda like young professionals get together. And at the running joke was you know, talking about how much they make and even though they're living in like a shithole apartment. They're driving a BMW three series to try and pick up that's the game. And so I'm talking about. The climate slash culture, providing encouragement slash. Right word is reward. But a, but a, but a culture of you know. Smiling upon those who are giving it their all as entrepreneurs at or coming up with innovation and technology. Now, again, I'm talking about startups in some capacity is being a positive here. But I'm talking about throughout the region. It's like, oh, he got a Mercedes or oh, she thinks. She's so good now because she's making whatever. And so it's like getting hated on as opposed to man now see that he or she can do that. I'd love to do that as well and not be miserable in my job and just kind of like sign off on the rest of my life. And and listen there are circumstances. That people have not everybody's in a position to be able to do it some people have families, and they're just not in a position to be able to take a chance, but I'm talking about in general. Culture of wanting to see ambition, and I feel like that that is lacking in Saint Louis in comparison again to when I'm looking at his other top twenty five markets gangster, Pete you're sitting here. But you would fall into the categories gentlemen, with an MBA absurdly more well educated than me, I do not possess college degrees. I'm curious to get your thoughts on this. What do you think? Do you agree with this? You disagree with us. I wanna have a conversation with you as well and a half yawn. There. Nurse. Nancy? Hi, tom. What do you think? Well, I think that a lot of people would come back if there's more opportunity, I think the opportunities lacking unless you're in certain industries now do you feel like that ambition is in some odd way kind of pushed back for younger people. I don't see that. I think that it's more of people that act like that just aren't happy where they are. And that's how they deal with it. What do you mean people who act like what people that act like ambitions, not cool? I think that's just because they don't have anything going for him at the time. Gangster Pete much more direct than me. Thanks for much more direct than me way. Coping with it. Yeah. I don't. I don't know. If I see I don't know why it is. I just feel like it is. But I wanted to see if I, but I see here's the thing. I had the conversation with other people, but those people aren't in broadcasting, so they're not going to be in a position to say. In an even me being in broadcasting knowing that it's going to get hated upon. It's like what's the upside and talking about it? But I wanna have the obvious honest conversation because in a way, I think ties into the airport things at ties into the business thing, I think you have plenty of people in Saint Louis with money. It's old it's old like. I was texting with somebody somebody who actually people would. No, I'm talking about not just like friends of mine. I'm talking about people in Saint Louis, if I said the person person doesn't live here anymore. And this person was saying, I gotta tell you because I love my hometown. But the perception of Saint Louis from people here is that it's old money with some real racial issues and talked about the racial issues quite a bit haven't really gotten hated on for that. I guess that's good people at least acknowledging that exists which is good because you have to acknowledge a problem in order to start looking at us Lucien, even though I have no idea what how how you actually solve that problem outside of just. Attempting to to not be a big shouldn't be that difficult. But I know it seems like a like a longer longer putt these days, but but with regard to the old money thing. It's like, yeah. Why would those who kind of have everything that they want here when I, you know, see change because it's a it's a great spot for them. Yeah. I understand that. I don't I don't necessarily even fault people for that. But I'm talking about people coming along in that new money like, you know, again like flashing and showing off that you got this. And you've got that that type I think is oftentimes that's not that's not really the people who necessarily have it. They just want the attention, which is a totally different thing. Maybe they have the money. But there that's other whatever that's that. I'm talking about a those who actually have and this isn't by the way, some passive way for me to talk about myself at all again, I'm. Forty two. I'm talking about people in their twenties or thirties for that matter where it's like me. Good for that person. Yes. I never really it's human nature in some capacity to have some form of jealousy. So I understand that I understand that psychological element in the discussion. But I'm talking about essentially a young professional class in the market. That's what I'm talking about. And how it is lacking. And so that what happens is you may have people who do move back here after college. But then go my God. The the circle so to speak is so small you're nodding you agree with this. The the circle here is so small that you know, I wanted to live here. But my God, I think I'm gonna move to Chicago. And I it's like more than two hands. I could name so many people who've been in that category or Denver, whatever the case might be. And I don't and I don't know what the solution to it is. Because again, it kind of goes back to the airport discussion, which is chicken and egg. And and it's certainly it's certainly because because it's not an every it's not an all it's not a one brush for you know, the whole region. That's not what it is. It's just it's it's a noticeable difference. And whereas I made note earlier that my travelling these days is limited with having son. And of course, the year before my wife being pregnant the entire time. And even we did travel was pretty much all we did was go to spring training, and we'd go to Las Vegas. So it's not like, you know, mom removed from when I was bouncing from you know, whatever NFL. L city NFL city are MLB city. I'm abuse it or NHL city shells city, whatever and seeing it, but at the time, it just it just stood out to me that you know, there's there's this twenty something and thirty something young professional class that I don't feel like we have as much of insane Lewis is a chicken or egg. But either way even if it is chicken or egg for those people who have done something or for those people who are trying something even if they don't work, God bless them for giving it a shot that it isn't necessarily as encouraged here, and even to an extent pushed back now, Pete, I guess is that it's more like hater type shit, which might be the case. I don't know. But it's like, you gotta be like conscious. Like, yeah. No. I, you know, I don't want to say I live in this municipality. Because then it'd be like, oh, you think you're so great because you live in this municipality, and it's like, I just lived there. I mean, you know, and it's an odd thing or you drive this while I drive this because I had that. And it didn't really go great. And like this car, you know, it's it's just an. Odd thing in. I don't end in a sense. Maybe it's it's just an overall humility thing, which I think is positive, but it's humility if it's for your own doing it's hate if now you're focusing on somebody else's doing. So that's that's what I meant. When I was talking about, you know, the the the the airport element, which was yes. For for the average traveler Suming, you're flying domestic it's. Yeah. It's it's inconvenient in the sense that you have one airline for the most part for the most part, and therefore you're gonna limit your choices and oftentimes that airline has stops. But yes, of course, you can get to take your pick of whatever whatever distant domestic city. You can absolutely go there. However, there there is a there is an entire population in the United States of business people who part of their job is that they're just on the road. And it's not just the people who are constantly flying. And therefore time is of the essence not just for meetings, but also to have their personal time with their family, but I'm also talking about their employers and the cost and then the time that they have their employees out in the road or they want to bring people to their their headquarters. And so if it is incredibly inconvenient to do that or it's like, oh, I'll find a Saint Louis like oh shit. It's going to be a whole day long thing that to me is relevant to the discussion. And I think is more of the issue than the quote, unquote, as the gentleman who posted the question asked the average traveler, I would consider myself the average traveler, I don't have to fly everywhere for my job I will fly here and there for vacations, and so therefore it's kind of like, oh, well, I guess it means we'll check in early today role. That means we'll be checking in late because we won't get there until six o'clock, and oh that sucks we got to fly through Baltimore to get to. You know, spring training, even though it's in Florida and seems to make no sense, but that's gonna save us one hundred fifty dollars. So that's what we'll do that is just kind of air flight out of Lambert in two thousand eighteen and most of us are just kind of used to it. But picture that you're not flying to wherever for vacation or you are the employer, and I realized there probably a lot of fortune five hundred CEO's listening to this podcast, but you're going, okay. We got a send this group here and we've got to get them there. But then the next day we have a meeting here. And so we gotta get him there. And then if it's your flying through here, and you're flying through in these people are used to flying, and they have, you know, hundreds of thousands of reward points, and therefore they're flying business class or first class from the case might be then it's an issue. And then what happens is we say, oh, I class hashtag blessed. Go fact yourself, well it, but it, but it's a real thing. Now, are you shaking your head? There you agreeing with me, I can't tell what you're doing here. It's tough to play poker with the whole hat hashtag blessed and all that it's just real gnawing to me. So. So you if people act like that, they're they're removed from my circle. I just don't you? Are somebody's type something hashtag bless your out. Yes. It's like what's the point? Like you. Obviously don't really care that much about me. You wanna see me do? Well, that's what I'm getting at the whole thing. It's the core at that. And if you don't feel that way, then you're not really, my friend. And then why do I care about what you think about anything? That's just how I think gangster Pete extra Pete much more direct. Maybe you should host questions from the audience, I'm rambling day done. You would have been done. Let's because you don't like how long ago because we got to go do this other show, but but you're much more interesting. I don't know you're kind of direct. I like it. But I, but, but, but you know, it's a weird things again, I know in gangster Pete. And I do have to jet is because we're hosting the well, Dan, McLaughlin, either hosting against repeats producing the hot stove show. And so we do have to go. And so we're working on this whole new thing. And maybe it'll work maybe it won't. And that's just kind of the way it is both Peten. I think in certainly McLaughlin would fall under the umbrella of being entrepreneurs and part of the deal with being an entrepreneur is inevitably you're going to fail and you're gonna fail like there's no way you Batta thousand. I'm sure some people have Batta thousands. So I should say there's no way but inevitably in order to really fire bullets in trying to have something work. You're either going to initially fuck it up, and then have to make it right or it's going to fail that's part of the deal. But as the great Michael Scott said when quoting Wayne Gretzky, you have to shoot in order to score. You miss one hundred percent of the shots. You don't take. So that's the nature of the peace. And what I'm saying is. I want more people in the region in particular young people to be encouraged to take shots like from my standpoint. I love the fact that I have no idea what the fuck I'm going to be doing it. A couple years. I love that. Now. I also know that there that would scare the shit out of plenty of people. And in part of the deal is is that when you don't know, and then you have a family, and that's an important element of this. And I don't want to dismiss it. Maybe maybe people thought I used to dismiss it. Maybe I was dismissing it before I had a child now that I've child so I'm part of the club. So I certainly considered to be relevant and by that I mean a relevant factor. Not e- relevant. But I love I love that. It's like, okay, we could still do this. You know? I mean what we're doing here today. Pete Nye McLaughlin, we might be starting some kind of big project or like two months, I got fucked didn't work. But at least, you know, we tried it. And here's why it didn't work and the you'll gene will learn from that for the next project, whatever it's price you pay. I mean with with running radio stations are operating programming and inside us yell. My God how many shows have we come up with? And then a lot of them just didn't work. But you know, I came up with. One with the help of some compadres in the cat and Martin Kilcoyne thirteen fourteen years ago, and sometimes all takes his one. But you got you gotta take your shot. And that's what I'm saying. I just feel like oftentimes the climate here is non-conducive perhaps more from a cultural element by that. I mean, other people hating on success, and or ambition. Maybe it's not the Embiid that's headed on so much as the byproduct of a successful ambition. And then if people don't handle the success as well. But I'll tell you this. It's still one of the like Randy Marquel who owns the station he laughs about it. He laughed about any lasts about one of the worst moments of my career was when the while. I mean, this was before the post-dispatch wrote about it was when the details some of which were reported inaccurately one of which that I bought into caffeine us. I did not buy indicate us, but that in order to get the deal done. Randy offered me part ownership of KFI us a couple years ago and was published in in some Br. Broadcast trade magazine. And I'm sitting at the Venetian playing poker tournament on. Okay. Got the deal done. I got a couple of weeks. Here doesn't start for a few months, and I can relax with my wife and enjoy myself and an hour and a half into the poker tournament playing very, well, I should note and have a nice big stack and my phone starts blowing up and I looked down. And it's all of these people go and the details your contractor online, and what in the hell is this? And and then of course, you know, some people are like I can't believe DNC's wrote about it. Once it was out. And you know, it was it was out. And I figured he was gonna write about it. So on it's in the Saint Louis post dispatch, and like the articles titled the million dollar man or something like that. Like Jay, Randall junior was calling me million dollar baby for a couple of weeks until I finally said Jennings. If you could please stop, but it, but but the, but then people in like my peers in this business now it became, hey, hey, you know, like a fuck him. He does that pervert show. He doesn't. Go to Busch stadium or enterprise center, or whatever, you know. And then it's like, and then it's a whole thing. And I'm like, you know, the the some of that's accurate some of it's inaccurate. But then it's like, I can't go. Well, that's accurate. I am actually making that. No, that's not accurate about this. Because then it's like I can't talk about somebody's like blowing in the wind. And it's like, well, how come he's making that, you know? And it's awful. It's an awful thing. It was awful. It was it was truly awful. Like, I said Randy thought, it was funny in we we did laugh about it in the sense that I thought it was funny that he thought it was funny. But I'm like, dude. This isn't funny as socks and this is going to be an this is going to stick with me forever. This will always stick with me and on top of it. It's just it's it's that's KF an ass. I we also have inside T L Pete McLaughlin, an eye Nick gale, we're all working on a whole new project. They're all kinds of things. And sometimes you have good months and quarters and years, and sometimes you don't you know, you you have a house. You have Lowe's part of the game. But you wanna take your shot? And so I'm just I'm always four I'm telling you, I e even. If you go. Wow. What a terrible idea that was and how big a failure was that? And I'll go. Yeah. But at least he or she took the shot. God bless them. You know, because it takes a great amount of courage to go out on your own, especially if you're putting your own money that you've saved or you go to a Bank and get a line to start something up and take it. I take an idea and try and run with it and build something. I mean, that's essentially how this country was built. And so I have a great amount of respect for it. I'm in listen, this this is like an finish up with Dennis Miller rant and not the Dennis Miller of two thousand eighteen Dennis Miller of nineteen ninety eight. I don't know what happened. And that is I could be wrong. That's just my opinion. I could be wrong. And I know it's going to it. It's not intend. I'm involved. It's a podcast. It's not like I'm trying to get some audience or something like that with the the radio show or Twitter. I'm just giving you my honest opinions because this the Maceo lock Lambert line got such a response. And then it led to all of these different layers of it that I'm giving you my perspective on it due to to go straight to what he said regarding the airport playing a role in free agents. I can't imagine. When that's the case at all. But the shit. I mean, he brought it up. I have no idea might just make a joke who knows? But then it got into all these topics regarding Lambert in the whole thing. And so what winds up happening usually I find is that when I'm talking to people who have either lived in other cities or currently living in other cities or who do a lot of traveling. They agree with me one hundred percent. And then the people who for the most part have not traveled, and it's not because I'm as Pete loves hashtag blessed because I got to travel to all of these places. I didn't do it. It was my job. It's not like I was making so much money that I'm like sweet RAMSAR plan in San Francisco. Let's fly on out enjoy it and stay at the Ritz. I was flying out there because came over he was paying for it that you get to see other cities and not just San Francisco caliber cities. And so you get to see what's going on around the country. And then you compare it to your hometown, and you go, okay. Wow. It seems like we're behind here. Why is that? But if you have that conversation, and I did have that conversation to an extent when I was in my twenties. I had a lot of older people. Of course, go fuck you. What are you know, are they would, you know, just like dismiss it? And here we are fourteen years later, and I'm not surprised by it because I felt very strongly about it in two thousand three four five. I was right. But that's not like a that was an obvious. I was right. You know? I mean, sometimes these things are quite unlike. Yeah. Eric writings scumbag, you couldn't tell you voted for an okay, I mean shit. I said the morning after the election. I said you guys can focus on Donald Trump while you want. That's fine. Plenty of people are other people are absolutely thrilled. But what concerns me is this era grinds guy 'cause I can tell us guys just to sleazebag. He's going to be a problem. But I don't go, man. Look at me. I'm very intuitive. I'm like, that's that shit was obvious. So Saint Louis falling behind in two thousand three two thousand four two thousand five in Saint Louis having issues in two thousand eighteen these to me things are very obvious. I don't think I'm some wizard, but I also know saying it is unpopular, but I. Think in order to to improve we have to have the conversation. So this is really like at the at the foundation of it. Why that is? But perhaps I'm wrong. That's why I'm saying perhaps, I'm wrong. I think that the free agent situation with the airport is is irrelevant. But I, but I also think Mozelle IQ might have been making a joke or might have been talking about baseball players families coming and going on Saint Louis, maybe he was just because he travels a lot. He's like God that sucks. I gotta fly through two cities in order to get to here there. I have no idea. But anyway, there it is there at all is this. You're welcome to agree. You're welcome to disagree. You're well in I enjoy a good conversation as I was saying earlier long emails, and because we are working on a variety of things. I don't have the time. Oftentimes specially attempting to be a good husband and father to write is much back. But I really do read them. And I love reading them, even when they disagree or negative or whatever the case might be so feel free to Email T mckernan it inside us to yell dot com. That's how you can get involved and in respond the conversation. I in -ticipant some negatively on it. But. Wanted to have to give you my perspective on what became something that people were talking about which is messiah lock in the airport. And then how the airports an issue and so on and so forth. So there at all is Ryan Kelly makes it possible. The home loan expert dot com studios, James Carlton is state farm insurance agencies. I told you about earlier, and then of course, Marc Canham of evergreen wealth strategies, who has been a great sponsor of this podcast and somebody that I endorse as a person for certain. And I'm just letting you know that here's we get into fall. And it's already feeling like winter around here is not as much time to play golf for play around outside. It's a great time to start getting things together with your money. If you want to get off to a good start in two thousand nineteen get a jump on it. Now think about it. If you're like most of us, you've probably done some things financially. But you're wondering if they're the right things for you. Or even thinking one of these days, I'm going to get with somebody about my money and get this set up. Right. Well, go to Mark Hanna, and evergreen wealth strategies online at evergreen, S T, L dot com. That's evergreen, S T L dot com. This is my promise to you. And I don't know how to do it. I wish I could just go here. Here is a guarantee here's whatever a hundred bucks. And if I'm wrong, I'll give you a hundred bucks, but I can't do that. But I would because I feel strongly about it. Call him at three one four eight nine zero five zero three three one four eight eight nine zero five zero three Gordo's website. Evergreen S T L dot com to find out Moore's name as Mark Hanna, evergreen wealth strategies, that's going to wrap it up. Thank you to all of our sponsors. Ryan Kelly the home loan expert dot com, James Carlton, state farm insurance agent, Mark Hanna, evergreen wealth strategies. Johnny Llandough Chevrolet sat gold camp designed air heating and cooling and Mike. Judy of Mike Judy presents all wonderful sponsors here of the Tim mckernan show on the inside STL podcast network. Thank you for listening to another edition of questions from the audience, Email me team accredited inside us deal that calm, and we can have a lovely private conversation. And maybe maybe I'm wrong, and you can tell me why. And I would love to hear it. And maybe a lead to a whole nother discussion. Thank you for listening to the Tim occur in on the inside of steel podcast network from homeland expert that comes through.
The Tim McKernan Show
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Episode 392: News from St. Louis-based Urban Buds and the ASCFG Urban Farming Conference; Plus Our State Focus: Florida
Hello again. And welcome back to the slow flowers podcast with Deborah printing, episode three hundred and ninety two this is the weekly podcast about American flowers and the people who grow and assigned with them. It's all about making a conscious choice, and I invite you to join the conversation and the creative community as we discussed the vital topics of saving our domestic flower farms and supporting a floral industry that relies on a safe seasonal and local supply of flowers and foliage this podcast is brought to you by slow flowers dot com. The free nationwide online directory to florist shops and studios who designed with American grown flowers and to the farms that grow those blooms it's the conscious choice for by and sending flowers and thank you to our lead sponsor Florus review magazine. I'm delighted to serve as contributing editor for slow flowers journal. Found in the pages of floors review. It's the leading trade magazine in the floral industry and the only independent periodical for the retail wholesale and supplier market ticket vantage of the special subscription offer for members of the slow flowers community at Deborah printing dot com where you can also find the show notes for today's episode three hundred and ninety two. Our first sponsor. Thanks today. Goes to the Seattle wholesale grower market a farmer owned cooperative committed to providing the very best. The Pacific northwest has to offer in cut flowers, fully ges and plants. The growers markets mission is to foster a vibrant marketplace. That's the state's local flower farms and provides top quality products and services to the local flora industry. Visit them at Seattle wholesale growers market dot com. Our theme for two thousand nineteen fifty states of slow flowers continues today with Kate Reid of gray tabby gardens in Lake Mary, Florida. So listen for our conversation at the close of this episode. Today. We return to Saint Louis, Missouri to check in with the dynamic duo Mimi Davis and Miranda do shack of urban butts. Not only will you hear more about their farms expansion news. I especially wanted to have them on today to highlight the upcoming urban farming conference that they and others have organized as a program of the association of specialty cut flower growers every other year ASEF, she has a large annual symposium such as the Raleigh conference last year. Then during the alternating years such as what's happening during two thousand nineteen hey ASEF, she produces several topic focused regional sessions around North America later this month on Saturday, March twenty third the second such event of the year heads to Saint Louis, you'll hear a preview of some of the presenters and their topics that will be covered at this one day event. Which includes a panel presentation from me Miranda and owners of to other Missouri flower farms all about the. Results of their research and trials on winter flower production, there will also be a tour of the local floral wholesaler. Beijing skinner. Andy farm tour at urban buds spring. We'll have barely arrived outdoors, but inside the greenhouses and high tunnels at urban buds. Beautiful seasonal flowers will be on full display. I'm excited for the attendees. The city farm is a sight to behold and proof that flower farm can be just a successful on small plots as well as on larger acreage, I love how the urban farming conference is described by ASC of g on its website, not all cut flowers are grown on a traditional farm. Increasingly more and more farmers are finding land within city limits and producing a remarkable variety of cut flowers on a commercial level. Learn from two of the most successful Mimi Davis and Miranda do Shak how they carved one. Cut flower farm out of the middle of Saint Louis neighborhood and continue to expand their crops selection. Each year. With innovation and environmental sustainability, you'll find links to conference details and registration information in the show notes. For today's episode three Ninety-two also have photos of Miranda and Meema their farm, their flowers, their social places and a link to the interview I recorded with them when I visited in two thousand sixteen let's get started. Welcome back to the slow flowers podcast with jeopar- printing. And today, we've got some special guests all the way from Saint Louis. I'm just joking because we're on we're on the phone. So folks, we're not even seeing each other. But I'm so happy to have Maima Davis and Miranda do Shak their partners in urban buds city grown flowers in Saint Louis. Missouri return guests, I ladies, I never so good near your voice. Thanks for having fact. Yeah, I'm just I'm thinking it was like two years ago when I was in St Louis and got to spend time with you and your beautiful greenhouses and user flowers, and it's just boy that it'd be fun to be back. And that's what we're gonna talk about is the event that you're hosting in Saint Louis. It's the upcoming ASEF Chee, I guess spring conference on urban cut flower farming, right? Well, yeah, it does include urban farming. Just by the mere fact were on the urban farm, but we're diving in do a bunch of things season extension is going to be a huge topic at this event because we're really focused on extending this season. And so yeah. Urban farming extending the season other two the two primary topics for sure, you know, we were be were recently at Oregon state university's nineteenth annual small-farm, Tom France. And they had us come out. It was such a special event. And what happened is that people wanted to know about the business aspect quite a bit. How we worked with our cities. So, you know, the workshops gonna be kinda hard to market a bed. It's like essentially, this is how he did it here you do it better. You know, we're opening up the farm, and we're doing it to the AFC cheese. So we're not making a beaucoup bucks on this. We're doing it for getting back. Yeah. The members. So yeah, I'm glad you clarified that. Because when I look at obviously that the title is urban cut flower farming in its Saturday, March twenty third in right in Saint Louis in your it looks like you're partnering with the few people assume organizations like the Missouri department of agriculture and the the bacon Skinner. Yeah. Basis skinny Skinner wholesaler. Right. And then they'll be other speakers such just go through the time line. But I'm glad you brought that up. It's like, basically, if somebody has ten acres in the suburbs. This is just as relevant for them. It has the urban is just because that's the the meeting is taking place, right? Absolutely. You know, a lot of people get off his land and planted. But sometimes that's not really the most efficient way. So maybe come in and seeing it on a different scale a more human scale. Doable. You know? In a no, I mean, I just like look we live here as a family. This is a family business. I mean, you know. Yeah, they can scale it up or they scale it down or they could do whatever they want. I hope people from the region com. Kind of a rough time, you know, March twenty third, but man, we hope people come out. We're excited to open up the farmer cleaning. So register Saint Louis. Yeah. But I mean, it's it's a great one day hip for I think right before the season explodes. I think it would really inspire. There the point you made about scaling. I mean, if you're doing something in a greenhouse that is the same scale of greenhouse that might happen on a larger farm, and so you can kind of zero in on how do we manage this volume of space, especially with the topics that you're tackling like way to production? I mean, that's that's new to people, right? Yes. Correct. That is you know, not a lot of people doing it definitely considered on the edge. You know? And and so we just wanna you know, tell people what experiences have been and it were weren't. We're learning it right along there with you. Right. You know? Well, I remember when I visited you and it was April and Hugh had beautiful early crops. You had stock in an enemies, and we're not Gillis and probably lots of other things. But it was because you had really pushed the envelope as far as possible for growing under glass or in under. I think it was a glass or is a high tunnel both under the blast and under the tunnel. We added another greenhouse since you've been here and the first year we did get powers for Valentine's Day, we had Doukas. We we were. It was amazing last year froze. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Let's celebrate that victory. And then then the polar vortex came eight days before we called it our Valentine's Day massacre. So that's okay. The glasshouse survived. You know, we need a generator we need monitoring systems. We're talking pollen sandy Arnold. Do you know them Argyle New York? Yeah. They're really good veg farmers, and they there's son invented this monitoring system. We definitely are learning right along, you know, as the go, you know, we're only this will be our second year doing year round production. So it's still a baby to us. But we want to show share findings from a grant that we got from last year where we working febblue were cutting down the janeway one on can't even believe that we. You said. Yeah. Not daffodils Dahlia's. Dalli is saying well, you know, what? So Deborah that I just wanna play that. I want to bring up our bloom 'cause he were here for that. And we have beautiful hours. Well, this year, we only had Krisha and an enemy and the guest speaker was Ariella Hoti says our our relishes are. Yeah. She was amazing. She was so nice to us. Came to the farm and she used those flowers, even though she probably wanted more. She's probably excited to have free Shah and. Yeah, redid and then made. Well, we're definitely. What I what I think is. So interesting is when me man, I I met we kinda got into we got until like a little Duke Duke, it out battle about what is local, and I remember asking and this was years ago. And I remember ask Huma, what do you have to offer your customers in winter because I've been you know, my biggest fear is if people are. Committed to local flowers, but then there's a dead space in like, you know, the three or four months or in some cases, six months right non growing season, they'll drift off and just buy anything at the wholesaler and not and kind of forget that they love local. And now you've proven that you can fill that gap with innovative farming techniques to have product in what others might consider the off season. Right, right. It doable late. You know, it's it's a little different for us because we're on a on natural gas. And I think you really, you know, have to consider your costs in terms of row pain, natural gas. Never got Wade see per so that's a real advantage for us. You know in the urban area that we're on natural gas. Interesting is the other. Go ahead. Okay. We need to tweak with everyone's great ideas. Like, the people come to this workshop, and we hope you come. Deborah, bring your friends. Fortunately. That same day is the Washington state. Farmer's market managers conference in Walla Walla, Washington. And that's where I will be speaking. So I'll be sending you the love long distance of great great. Yeah. Yeah. What do they send us some onions that what they grow out there? Yeah. There's a few flower farmers potatoes. Otherwise, I guess, but no they they need. That's the crowd. I mean farmer's market managers aren't particularly aware of growing techniques for flowers. But I mean, that's the crowd that needs to know what you guys are doing. So I cut you off when people come to the conference there's sort of two there's three locations of this is like a moveable feast this conference. Right, right. Actually, actually to location. There's the married J learning center, which is on flower row on the cell street. You're insane Lewis that we're floral row is and they'll get a tour Beijing Skinner while ear, and then the move, and we have a classroom space, and that where we'll do the reason -tations we'll present the information the data from the grant with two other farms. We were on a grant with a rural farm and a fun tells into Kansas City in farm that sells into Columbia. So the only like big cities in Missouri. Besides spring teals, and you all use different way. They're going to all different methods to trial which production or what was the grant for yet. Uh-huh. Yet and who's the no Seila, Missouri? He's a veteran in a second. Generation flower farmer. He did would. And he couldn't keep up with it and his greenhouse froze. And then Liz grades who sells into the Columbia, Missouri market. That's where the university of Missouri. She she tried the heat mats which actually eaten is doing really well on flowers this year. His grant's been very for Ethan. And yeah, yeah. And bland here we at Brown this year. You know, once we straighten up problems these issues, you know, I think there'll be a lot more growers jumping on winter production. You know, just keeps your space in the floors gives your space with your pharmacy. Markelle. Sure you and the marketplace. And so the grant. Did the grant come from the state of the Serie or was it like a USDA grant? It's kind of both. I mean, it's especially crop block grants. That is a minister to the Missouri department of agriculture, but the funds that they have to make a report to the USDA. So we have a liaison. We have liaison with them. Zuri department of agriculture who has helped us for who helped us for five years of grants. Wow. I gosh. I mean, yeah, she's amazing. And she sees that we have problems this year. And she's like, okay. Let's you know, you all need a generator. Let's figure out how to get one. You know? So it's great that they're helping offset the cost of the the risk, right? And it's also great that there's three of us doing experimentation. So the results can come out faster. And then that can kind of be available for other farmers to tap into and and see which which of these processes is most ethical so their farm. Gra, technically. These reports are owned by the government, let's pivot over to just getting an update on what's going on with urban buds because you're now in what season would you say we celebrated on the twenty sixth of February we own the property seven years. Yes. Seven years we've been eight seven years we have been in production. Wow. And so you're you're entering your seventh year project started. Yeah. So basically, yes you've. Pretty much maxed out your property. And then you add it a second property is that correct? Yeah. We're adding. Yes, we've added another are you referring to well. We have a another field location. That's on city owned land that we rent from the city. Okay. And that is six blocks away. And then recently well on just bought we closed on March fifteenth. I'm the house right next door to our house. Wow. Which was a rental now. Seven contiguous lots out of fourteen we own half the block while. Right. It's like monopoly. Right. We have enough how good now get a hotel. So we wanna use that house. We wanna use that houses guest place. Right. Like, you know, when speakers come to town people we want to hang out with our families our houses, really small so. I think this is going to be really good for our family, and our business and and land base moorlands face. They're also what I notice about the block you're on the the individual residential parcels are not super wide. But they're very deep like there's all that late in the front and the back of every house right to right? Yeah. Yeah. We're grow. I'm before we bought the prop the new property we're growing on acre. So what do you want people to see when they come to urban buds this later this month on March twenty third you're gonna give like open the gates and just let everybody poke around. See what you're doing? We'll give them a guided. We're going to put the tool. We're gonna have we're gonna have a guided tour where we explain from starting. You know, just how the flow of the building the flow of our work Stejskal. How we organize things in our mind the organized things like seeds. We're just basically opening up the farm. You know, you know, my pants, even though, you know, I'm going to be really focused on that. But any questions anything on the table? That's cool. Well, especially because people see flowers, I mean. Yeah, we want people to see our beautiful flowers cord when you now we want them to see healthy plants. Yeah. Exactly. And and even though you're not probably working in your rented field yet. You're gonna be probably have all your all your seedling started, and your soil blocks and everything for that field, or how do you how do you get ready for that leading greenhouses back and and actually the tunnel. They're also pack. Are planted. Yeah. That's not much in the field. Brigade talked about bernie'll are in the field. Our newly planet perennial. We're gonna talk about soil health. You know, that set really all of us were just farmers. You know, you gotta keep that soil healthy. And and here we've really the challenge of rehabbing this type of space is the poor quality of the soil and the old greenhouses. So that we're we're working with using cover crops and drenching the drenching the soil and bringing in soil. So that's kind of interesting because he's an extension is hard around the soil be more responsible. It really is. You can just burn out the soil right because you're working. Yeah. You're you're asking so much of it in a tense way. But right, your your methods are organic so it's just being sensitive to how to rebuild the the the the nutritional health the soil. I love the way you kind of like if you have a question you learn along with everybody else. And then you share the results in your insights. It's very participatory. And that's why the tour will be great because you you can give general tour, but it'll be most occasional. If people come with questions, and you can be really specific and drill down. I do have another question about the tour at Bache and Skinner there. I guess you would call them conventional wholesaler, right? Yes. Unlike other laurel Valer, they sell the public. I see. Okay. Are you selling to them? Are they buying product from urban buzz? No, no. We don't sell the basement Skinner. We just go directly what we don't sell that any os sailor. We just go directly words, but we do have a very good working relationship with them. They call they call at we took our design class fares. And we have a good relationship with them. Yeah. They have a huge like Bill than sometimes by bases from them and stuff. I remember when I was there. Yeah. I remember. I was there. I asked Pacific -ly like, where's the American grown product. And they had because it was kind of early spring. They had a pretty good size immaturity of mostly California product. But I was just curious if. Well, I was just going to say that I'm starting to see when I say conventional, I guess I mean mainstream like wholesalers that have pretty much built their business in the last two decades on imports and offering imports two floors to come in shop, and I'm seeing this shift where there many of them at varying degrees are saying, you know, we're getting asked about local product from our floral customers, we are going to seek out farmers now that we can do business with obviously it's very easy for them to ship product in from California or Florida, but that may not necessarily be seasonal to whatever location. They are social fascinating to see to what degree some of these mainstream conventional floral wholesalers are starting to get it about local flowers, and I feel like they are getting it. Yeah. Like, you're clearly bringing them along with this. Yeah. Yeah. And they are only getting they do have local grower that they by lowers from and other local growers that that cell flowers through the wholesaler per store. We don't because we're on a on a acre. And you know, we just really like the direct to floors route. And I think, you know, everyone respects hard work, you know, wholesaler has seen me with Wild Thing farms. You know, what I mean the lives as relationships connecting valuable? I think that successive or been buds is in big part because of her prior relationships really opened the door, and then the quality products in the innovative product, you know, just. Kept it kept people excited about it. Right athlete. Right. Never. They are starting to come along with the I would I was in there the other day when I when reality or and I was having a conversation with Babe's about it, actually. And who's the owner she's gonna but he was saying how he's really starting to have issues in sourcing flowers, you know, imp- import and other flower because and even Cowboys lower those producers are switching over to marijuana now. And and he and he was like, you know, while this is a big issue. So for the local, you know, locals really starting to them all on and people who need flowers or starting to sit up and take a look at it. Seriously. I feel like the biggest challenge for us to you know, as as, you know, people who want to share knowledge. Educate is to help newer or emerging growers understand that the whole they're selling to a wholesaler may be an option. It's a different model than you're using. But if they want to gel like a single crop, or if they just have no labor in the, you know, there's a lot of benefits to selling all to one customer in our presentation, we'd take the time to go through the swot analysis, and you know, you need to know your personality, and what you like to do market for an outgoing personable person and team, you know, and that might not be your jam, you know, I south and then create your business plan and focus on your relationships accordingly. You know, just do it with integrity and don't undercut each other. Right. I agree. I think that's a really good point. And can you just give us a snapshot of what your? Just model is I know that urban buds does do your own design work. So do you have cell to yourself as well as two other Florus? How does that how does that slice up? We basically support the barn by direct selling directive floors and farmers market. Oh, you're still doing. Yeah. Absolutely love farmer banded to do a Sunday market. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Well, it fits your personalities, and it's also hiring employees for that Sunday. So so how many markets are you doing a week? Then. Two. Okay. Yeah. We try to say market. We try to choose they market last week or last year. And I think it's lower farmers. You know, people don't host a Tuesday night dinner. They hold hosted Saturday night dinner or our farmers market and floors. That's we still on product, right, and no and our wedding custom. Yeah. And wedding. And the hope is the wedding. Are you just is it your include your design work, or are you also selling buckets flower buckets, or you know, a DIY bridal bridal program. Yeah. We do both. We do full service leading to the buck bridal DWI. I yeah, ride. I wish I was sitting with you having like Moses or something it would be so much more fun doing this. What we need right now. Well, I guess we're gonna end this by saying that if you go to the urban cut flower farming conference on Saturday, March twenty third you're gonna fabulous time going to learn a lot and it ends with a tour of urban buds personally guided by these two ladies, and I see them. I tin ary that there is a happy hour. So I'm getting back to my alcohol. Comet. At boats. L everyone's been at the Holiday Inn, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And and and we're we'll be right there too. And no one's gonna go home. With question unanswered that we could've answered us cool, and I have the whole itinerary and the registration information that I'll put in today's show notes at Deborah printing dot com, as well as links to how you can virtually meet Meema and Miranda and urban buzz and then get to see them in person. You'll know who they are. I hope that people in the calm because I feel like for one day this really no excuse to take that day away from all your guard garden and farm chores and just go do a deep dive in learning how you can improve your cut flower farming business. There's a lot of meat here on this on these phones and for veterans they're gonna learn what their peers are doing with your grant. And for newbies. They're going to be inspired to maybe try some new techniques. So it's kind of cool. Thank you. Deborah, take you for promoting it, and you know, one last thing there is going to be an NHL game. The blues will be playing at home. I guess that. Right. Don't someone wants to travel with their hockey loving part. Is boring. I get it now through their rose. Like what breakfast that she was going to say like carpooling is encouraged because traffic is going to be bad. But I get it. Now. It's no, no, no, traffic's rarely bad around. Yeah. That's so great. We'll I love I know I've met so many of your clients people who are talented floral designers who just couldn't live without your product. So I'm just excited to see the expansion and learn about expansion of, you know, urban buds becoming like this real estate mogul company in your cute little neighborhood. Yeah. Imprint come back. I think you'll be the flowering of Saint Louis super thanks so much. They just adored hearing from you. Fun. You'll be well. Thank you. Yep. Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm just back from the Philadelphia flower show, where my mind was fully blown got only by the warm. Welcome shown to me on the designer studio stage where I presented the sloth our story through flowers, but also by the once in a lifetime opportunity to see uncover the F TD World Cup floral competition Twenty-three countries each center designer to compete on the world stage and over the course of three days tens of thousands of flower show attendees witness the highest level of talent in real time. I'll be writing about the competition for Flores review and Canadian florist magazines. So you can read more about that in the near future. Suffice it to say there's some kind of new dynamic new energy being infused in the profession of floral design, especially here in the US where Florus of all stages of experience and style are inspired to elevate their craft and art to new levels. Congratulations to all the. Remarkable f- TD World Cup competitors. You are the cream of the crop and special. Congratulations to Australian floral designer Bart Hassam for winning this international competition all linked to beautiful images and videos from the World Cup in today's show notes. You must take a look and drink it all in. Our next. Thanks goes to sit of sales an American manufacturer of vases and excessive fees for the professional florist. Look for the American flag icon to find syndicates USA made products and join the Sydney syndicate stars loyalty program at syndicate sales dot com. And now, let's meet Kate Reid who will share her Florida sloth our story. Kate owns gray tabby gardens, which is located in the central part of the state. She describes it as a cut flower garden and design studio here Kate explain about growing up in England and bringing a love of English cards with her wherever she lives, including Florida where she's called home for eighteen years. Kate writes this on her website when I first moved to Florida. There seemed to be very little interesting growing the type of flowers. I was familiar with my research led me to the slow flowers movement and the desire among many flower-lovers to source locally grown cut flowers rather than imported flowers. I began to plan plant a sizable cutting garden where I could grow many of the lovely seasonal flowers. That reminded me so much of those idyllic English guards. The result is an ever evolving collation of unique and difficult to source garden, fresh flowers, styled, intellect bouquets and arrangements and available to buy. The flowers that are grown at great tabby guards are nurtured from seed to bloom at our tended using responsible practices. They have been naturally grown without the use of toxic chemicals or synthetic fertilizers and have been happily visited by bees butterflies hummingbirds love that. So let's jump right in and meet Kate raid. Today. I am so excited to have our focus on the state of Florida. This is part of our fifty states of slow flower series for two thousand nineteen and it's my pleasure to introduce Kate Reid of gray tabby gardens. Hi, kate. How? Hi, how are you? I'm great. Thanks for saying. Yes. When I invited us to do this with me, very, welcome this fun. Well, I know you can't represent or speak about the whole state of Florida. It's a big steak tell about great tabby gardens in and where you're located in side. So I'm in central Florida. And I am just notable Landau. And it says small-time could Lake Mary and wearing zone ninety. So yeah, we pretty pretty fuss auf hot and Huddah. No peonies for you. Right. No peonies. No, sadly, no news. So. Yeah. So I'm, you know, I'm not even a foul. I'm I'm very much above and cutting Gaden, and I guess not size about one in quota, cause so, you know, around the house, I have these different garden areas that I've developed over the years, and I have those filled with like different types of foliage and tropical plants and shrubs, so I can make usable of that. And then I have a actual designated cutting garden, and that's that's definitely less than put ak-. So it's pretty small, but that's just the flowers, and I have that fence completely because we have a lot of depression here. I'm right on the edge of the woods. Yeah. So that's my size pretty small, but you know, I pack it. I'm trying to picture the fact that you know, you say it's a small garden. But I mean, a lot of people in a suburban area would be thrilled to have an acre and a half. That's nice here with very luck Canas. I singing pretty much gardening here growing is is year round. I mean, occasionally, we do get a frost oil, you know. Our kennels getting yes, yes. Or like a freeze, but but pretty much everything is, you know, especially with the greenery. It's it's growing it's growing year round. And some of the even forget that they have it. And then people like, oh my goodness. You have that. Oh, yes. These are just things that you inherited when you bought the property they were already actually no nothing do. So it it's actually kind of funny because what I'm originally from England. You can probably tell my accent move. Yeah. Thank you. We moved to not an internationally. You know being in Florida about eighteen years. And I've gotten that I think you know, that sort of how I've my connection to England. But, but when we moved here, you know, I was just amazed at no one really gotten that didn't whether it was the climate and people would even tell me, oh, you know, you you can't grow those. You can't go the flowers, but but I did. Yeah. Tell me some of what you mentioned all the Fulla just that you have what what are some of the things in your cutting. Are you bringing a little bit of England cottage style to Florida or much too? I mean, I grow sorts of different things there to oversee you know, we have to fool excuse me. Try and get those in early. So that we can have them in the spring. But yes, everything I mean, spur of Finian's sweet peas, Dolly is doesn't amazing. Yeah. Also, it's different. It's not just tropical flowers your growing. Not at all. No. And I just I just love those that if the total, you know, English English garden flowers, that's that's really what I what I loved to grow. And I really got she started doing little a little garden blog. I started to follow you. Martin world. New a new of you at least before. Yes. Yes. You know? I did that. And I was kinda mate to social media. You know, I wasn't on Instagram probably about two or three years ago. And then I realized like oh my goodness. Flautam farms growing salad is complete. I it to me. So yes a couple of years ago. You know, I thought it to sell and. Yeah, it's it's really been fun. I've really I've just really enjoyed it. And all the different connections to it's been amazing, especially in a state that I feel like my observation of Florida is that it one point. There was a lot of cut flower farming perhaps happening in like that kind of near you like that area where all the fern farmers are. But then because of the shift in sourcing internationally, it probably put some of these folks out of business, and maybe you're part of ons. I hope so I mean. Many of us. I mean, there are some becomes I think lady balloons and little pump and then designing with farm go. And then Anne Williams wildflowers right down this hour so two hundred. Yes. Yes, fascinating. Yeah. But I think you know, I'm noticing. I'm getting quite a few emails from people saying, you know, could you could be some advice about growing. So I think it's I think it's you know, it's starting to change, but we're little bit late to the party down here. So Kate are YouTube growing just for your own designs or power you marking. You know, I I'm so small, but I do like customer arrangements and case to order an I sell flowers a little store locally, and I'll do some small events. And I'm actually I'm so excited about she doing wedding next weekend. And I think that the couple found me through my missing with you. Yes. And they there she out to state, and they they specifically wanted local flowers, and excuse me, I'm very crooked because the oath paulhamus fooling. Moment me, terrible, allergies. Somebody's actually saw you as a source for unique Florida Brown product. Yeah. I'm so excited to do this. So yeah. Everything will come out to the garden. So it will be wonderful. So the market that you sell it as a little grocery market or national Mark. But yes, I started I was a little ObamaCare found market. But actually, I'm doing really well to is actually a enough lethal sit of Victorian emporium that she carries a much of English English goods. And I take my flowers this so yeah, they've actually done they've done very, well, which is great. So now up so I just I just feel like you're really creating a market where people didn't necessarily know they needed local flowers because it had never been prison it to them and Email and his thinking was that. She funny. A funny story I can tell you in this yet. Somebody overseas some flowers. They had them for me. And I got this phone call. And this lady was she signed. It's the flustered. And I felt when my goodness. You know, what what's happened is something wrong with the flowers? But she just I couldn't stop talking about these lowers. She was like, I just I just don't believe that these grew here in grew and Florida it was actually so sweet. And I had to go through to remember what was in her McCain had to go through. And I tell her all the different flowers because she had no idea. So it was actually really funny. It was it was it was very gratifying to me. Me a pioneer educating all these. Try to use different things. So I guess she just had never had before. Yeah. It was it was that was kind of fun by reaction when I hear you described Phidias Dahlia's. I mean, you're obviously have you're rolling in probably in the ground. I do have a greenhouse or you pretty much growing. I have I have no green house. I wish I did. Well, I mean, not even a greenhouse, but it will be mice to have you know, who passing he keep the rain office thing. And, but no, I actually grow in raised beds, which which helps them not because we don't flood or anything, but you know, Florida being Florida we are pretty low lying though, it can it can get kinda slow cheap. When it rains. Drainage through the help. My goodness. I do what was that word? You said Cape squelch squelching grow. British. I love it though. But we we could swelled she in Seattle too. So also. Yeah. I have to I have to put my I had to put my Wellington boots on out and squelch about that. What is the name gray tabby, come from Tila? My block, and I we don't have him anymore. Sadly, but yes, he was a lovely cat that used to move out in the garden. And so he was always best. So I just I know I just kudos to him in it. Doc. So yes. People seem tonight like it. Do people ask to come to your garden and tour or you pretty much hands off? I. Little bit of I do I can't Austin look to be on us. But it is it is a little bit difficult. You know, the ways I feel like the people talk. One woman show. Yes. Very much. So my husband's alyssum, Hugh. He'll like miss some the heavy stuff. But no, it's it's it's just mean. Yeah. But I I do I really I really love it. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of a lot of listeners of the so far podcasts are in the same position as you. They kind of have this as a side hustle, or as a maybe I'll start now and work my way into a fulltime, maybe most retirement or something definitely. And I think that's the way to go. I mean, you so much to learn. I mean, goodness if I had rushed off in five acres and try to do this, you know, couple of years ago. I would be making very expensive mistake. It's so so much, but it's a to make mistakes, you know, a small so we came, you know, for them to to expand really. If you were maxed out yet. No, I been looking. But if we thought we have something secure, but unfortunate kind of didn't come to fruition. But it's very difficult around us. It's what even just residential put a lot of the, you know, the old citrus groves and coaches being swallowed up by commotion development. And of course, the price is about it's ridiculous. So how far is like from Orlando? We're about forty minutes. So so you're competing you're competing with the cut of people building residential developments and commercial on this off, you know, office developments big big medical development things like that. So. Keep no king. I'm not going to give up a find something. Eventually we'll follow your journey. A will you will you send me some photos of your of your to science and your flowers, and you get left people to sort of get get a picture in their mind sigh of what greet tabby gardens is. And who came read is. Is there anything else? I didn't ask you that. You wanna make sure we include too. Be able to. I would love to give a shoutout to local florist. She not anyway, she has been so good about supporting local flowers. Yeah. I'm Stephanie from the wildland Landau. Okay. Yes. And she's been so good. You know about about trying to you local local products. And you know, I I this is very little wholesale because of a Sam so small, but I do try to get to get things to her. And it's fun to see you know, how how she uses them. So. Yeah. So I think, you know, people are people becoming more aware, I think. Yeah. Nick challenge in Florida to change the conversation. And in a way, I see this happening a little bit when I was in Hawaii as well like these are designed landscape plants. Why would you put them in put them in arrangement that kind of mindset or standing maybe taking for granted that that this is sort of available, and why should we pay top dollar for it? I don't know what it is. Thank you. Right. You know, we tend to look what stare them. But I think we'll so people think that perhaps he just can't grow the flowers e but but you really can't. Really? Well, that's what I think. That's your unique space from what I'm hearing is like if you're growing things that are people maybe from other parts of the country who you know, yearn for those cottage garden flowers or those beautiful annuals. They don't think they can have them in Florida. And now they're starting to show up at your market and people, you know, people they're amazed by it. I mean, the, you know, the reactions the reactions like. How did you Grover meant to this night world just stayed? I just tried and it worked I love it. It's great. Well, kate. I'm so glad you've willing to share a little bit about what you're doing. And I will share all your social media spots location. So people can find it follow you. I excited to see what photos who share. So we can get a certain change our attitudes above Florida and see really can can out of the farms state. Yeah, we can definitely grow here. Thank you so much for chatting today. Great. Thank you. Right. Thanks so much for joining me on this journey seeking new and inspiring voices. People with passion, heart commitment and expertise to share with you. I hope today's episode gave you at least one inspiring insider tip to apply to your floral enterprise. And what you gain will be multiplied when you pay it forward and help someone else truly we have a vital and vibrant community of flower. Farmers and floral designers together defined the slow flowers movement as our caused gains, more supporters and more passionate participants who believe in the importance of the American Cutler industry. The momentum is contagious. I know you feel it too. I value your support and invite you to show your things with donation to support my ongoing, advocacy, education and outreach activities. You can find the donate button in the column to the right at Deborah, printing dot com. Our final sponsor. Thank you. This week goes to the sociation of specialty at flower growers formed in nineteen Eighty-eight ASEF. She was created to educate. Unite and support commercial cut flower growers is mission is to help growers produce high-quality floral material unto foster and promote the local availability of that product. You can learn more at a s CF G dot org. The slow flowers summit is coming up soon on July first and second in Saint Paul Minnesota more than half of the registration slots have been grabbed already. So don't miss out on this upper -tunities to join with slow hours thinkers and doers in person. One of our pasture. Speakers stub, the summit, a floral mind meld, and I love that concept. Come and be part of the incredible and uplifting experience with others. You can make your way too slow flowers summit dot com to learn all about the mini opportunities to join us. From flower, farm, tours and dinner on a flower farm to business and branding presentations. To interactive inspiring design sessions all created to serve you. Subscribe to summit news and updates as slow flowers summit dot com. The slow floors podcast has been downloaded more than four hundred twenty two thousand times by listeners like you. Thank you for listening commenting and sharing. It means so much I'm printing host and producer of the slow flowers podcasts next week if you're invited to join me in putting more American grown flowers on the table one base at a time. And if you like what you hear please consider logging onto items and posting a list of review, the content and opinions expressed here are either mine alone or those of my guests alone, independent of any podcast sponsor or person company organization. The slow floors podcast is engineered and edited by Andrew Brennan. Learn more about his work at sound body movement dot com.
Slow Flowers with Debra Prinzing
Aired Last month 86:05
099: Sports Broadcaster Bob Carpenter
Heinsbridge knocks hit in Neo Cohen clears it Durant had did away with thirty five seconds left. There will be some stunned pumps around the nation when they see this score. But we're not surprised are we not talk on the far side all is shot. Cohen blocks. Hercule into the crowd kick in Baltimore twenty three seconds left. Goodness gracious. Left side of the corner back to the point shot in into the crowd. Saint Louis goal kick seventeen seconds left hooks. This one is history. Yes, sir. You gotta love these guys. This is not an expensive European soccer team is they're homegrown kids. Bill. Phillips is an American in goal done. An outstanding job tonight. Ten seconds left. Baltimore one more rush. I don't think they can score four and seven seconds shot in left corner. Three seconds to around the goal mob. And it's open the steamer have commented a Civic Center in Baltimore in front of a sold out crowd of better than eleven thousand six hundred and they have hammered Baltimore bias score of seven to three. One performance tonight. Keo will head down to Florida for our start again show coming up a little later on radio. But I'll tell you folks, you have got a team to be proud of here tonight. They came in here. Let it by a score of two one. Baltimore took the three to lead. Don tided up on the power play. And maybe the turning point of the game. Jeff gadget Tori, second goal of the playoffs unassisted into the empty net. When Baltimore took a chance and pulled their goalie for the sixth attacker with only seconds left in the first half of play. Catch a Tory took it away from the magician stands to make with a little magic of his own. And then took it down the floor into the empty net. This team has had the four three lead at the half attitude in the third quarter and the icing on the cake with only seconds left or a seven three victory. We'll be back with more from Baltimore in a moment, Saint Louis Windsor, high fool, and this is Saint Louis steamers layoffs. Welcome to good seats. Still available a curious little podcast devoted to exploring. What used to be in professional sports? Here's your host, Tim Hamlett. Hey there. How's it going everybody? My name is Tim Hanlin. And this, of course, is good seats. Still available are curious little podcast journey each and every week into what used to be and professional sports. And yes, make no mistake that voice that you hear that voice that you just heard was very familiar one one to known very well to baseball fans all across the country, especially those in the Washington DC area. His name is Bob carpenter. He is the current television voice of the Washington nationals major league baseball franchise has been for quite some time. But as you'll hear in our conversation with Bob carpenter and a couple of seconds. A lifelong journey of very interesting stops in and around professional and collegiate sports. And of course, we always dig real deep to find the excuses to talk to a very famous and enjoyable personalities such as Bob, and we've course had the excuse to do. So from some of his earliest days, and he was kind enough to allow us to drag us back drag him back into some of his beginning journeys in pro sports broadcasting in what you just heard was a clip from one of those stops in the old major indoor soccer league in the Saint Louis steamers in particular. We're he was for many years. The voice of the steamer said we talked to earlier to JP della camera. He was voice for a little while. And hopefully, we'll get to talk to Joel Meyers on another conversation who was the voice for the steamers for season as well. But perhaps some of the more memorable moments of steamers history was called by our guest this week Bob carpenter and that was from the first game of the MIS L finals of the nineteen eighty three eighty four season that was played on. Jesus was may twenty seventh nineteen Eighty-four and that game was live from the Baltimore Civic Center. And as you heard the sort of final seconds of that first game with the steamers defeated the Baltimore blast going away seven to three and was out of the chute, shall we say well on its way to what they hoped was going to be their first ever major indoor soccer league championship. But alas, I mean to break it to you. But I'll do it gently the rest of the series did not go Saint Louis as ways matter of fact, Baltimore wound up winning the next game at home couple of days later five. Three and then proceeded to go to Saint Louis, four two more games. Baltimore won both of those the latter of which on June sixth nineteen Eighty-four stands to make Vic scored in overtime to send Baltimore back to the Civic Center where on June eighth. They closed the deal in defeated Saint Louis. Ten to three winning the MIS Al championship series for the nineteen eighty three eighty four season four games to one. However, we are not gonna wallow in how close the steamers God. There's no question that the steamers were a an amazing franchise in the major indoor soccer league and Bob carpenter was there to call a whole bunch of games for it as well as as we'll get into in our chat a couple of seconds here. His his real first breakthrough in the pro ranks with the Tulsa roughnecks of the North American Soccer league outdoor version a little bit of indoors. Well, and we'll get into all of it. The whole story of how he how Bob stumbled into the NSL getting his first real pro- broadcasting job, and how that sort of netted into MSL work with the steamers, and we get into things like bud sports. The Anheuser Busch sports production team out of Saint Louis and ESPN and a whole bunch of things that ultimately lead to a further and long standing career in baseball across places like ESPN. And and now, of course, with the Washington nationals, but loss of interesting stops along the way, but we're going to delve into some of those earliest stops with our guest. Bob carpenter coming up in just a couple of seconds a fun and enjoyable chat. And you will enjoy it. Hopefully, just as much as I did as we get going on when I say Hello to a couple of our sponsors. Of course. And encourage you to check them out. And maybe give them a give a purchaser to why don't you got a couple of codes for you to to do. So and the first that we want to call out is our friends at old school shirts dot com, and it's old school shirts dot com, the promo code there is good seats. You can get ten percent off all of your purchases there, and you're gonna find some great high quality logo t shirts one of which of course, is featuring the Saint Louis steamers really nice sort of distress looking shirt. I think it's got more of the sort of modern logo attached to it. But it's a great way to remember the Saint Louis seamers franchise. One hundred percent cotton. It's a beautifully crafted and one of zillions of great designs and logos. And not only of teams and leagues formerly with us or previous incarnated, but you know, old radio stations, and and shopping malls, and all kinds of music parks, all kinds of other fun music venues, all kinds of stuff that you just may have forgot. And the our friends at old school shirts dot com are there to help you remember fondly and hopefully wear proudly in t-shirt form old school shirts dot com. Use the promo code good seats, and you will receive courtesy of us ten percent off all of your purchases. And we thank our friends PF Wilson and his crew in beautiful downtown Cincinnati Ohio for sponsoring a little show here. And we we thank them tremendously. And we thank you for giving. A try again old school shirts dot com. Promo code good seats. All right. Well, let's let's actually get right into the conversation, shall we? Let's waste no more time. And here's a chat that we had with our new friend Bob carpenter. He the voice of major league baseball 's Washington nationals about some of his early stops in his illustrious broadcasting career. And here's our chat we had just a couple of weeks ago. You know, I this little show in all its silliness somehow over the last year and a half as sort of personal passion project has oddly gained traction with people for whatever reasons who have their own sort of collective memories about teams and leagues and those kinds of things defunct or otherwise domiciled in their collective brains and their memories, I think some of its childhood and some issues that haven't been resolved with all of us. But I I can't speak to why people listen, but it seems to be growing, and sadly, you won't snared in my net. In some of your early doings now to the extent that you want to remember them. Let's I'm more than happy to sort of tiptoe through them. But before we kind of get to where you are today in your obviously, your prolific baseball coverage your your time with the national cetera. I want to maybe sort of regale our audience bit with perhaps if some of the earliest days to how you got to where you are today and how they know you and interestingly a lot of that actually of went through the world of soccer. But maybe before we get there. I don't know maybe are out of Washington DC listeners might enjoy a bit of some of how you even got into this crazy business of sports broadcasting in the first place, if you don't mind, Well, I I always wanted to to be a sportscaster. I think when I was in high school. I did a lot of sports writing for little in-house newspaper and always interested in sports grew up in Saint Louis, which obviously is a great baseball town. But maybe not as much as it used to be when I was growing up Saint Louis was an unbelievable soccer town because under the great coaching of Harry Keough and some of the other gentlemen, who came along Saint Louis university was a perennial, and she double a soccer powerhouse winning national championships on a very regular basis. So Saint Louis was also a a city made up of ethnic neighborhoods, and I grew up right on the edge of the hill. Best known as where Yogi Berra and Joe Garagiola grew up. I grew up about six blocks away from Elizabeth avenue where they did in south Saint Louis there were three parishes that comprised the hill area. And you know, we grew up playing soccer. I mean, I I remember playing it first grade, I remember it was a winter sport for us. We froze our rear ends off. Playing soccer in the late fall and into the winter before basketball started. And so I had a lot of roots and soccer didn't know that much about soccer internationally or anything like that. But I was always interested in the sport. And it was really cool because a kid that lived in my neighborhood Vinnie Lang his father Leo played on the US Olympic team. I think back in the fifties. So that was kind of a big deal for us. And you know, that's kind of how I had some roots in soccer, and I played him with some a couple of kids who went on to play professionally most notably a young man that was a year younger than me in elementary school. We played together several years, and it was John Strohm law and John would later go on to play for the Saint Louis steamers of the major under- soccer league and the Saint Louis stars of the old NASA cell. So, you know. A lot of soccer, my background, we played to high school, you know, amateur soccer. And then when I went away to school, it was kind of unusual Tim because I went to U K C. To the start of my junior year to study broadcasting well, you and K C which is the university of misery and Kansas City was mainly a commuter school. It only had one dorm, and I was transferring up there over the Christmas holidays, I couldn't get in the dorm. They had no room right across the street was an NA AA school, a private Catholic school called Rutgers college, which I think is now called rockers university. And they had a really good soccer team. They had plenty of room in the dorms. And a lot of the U K C kids who came in from out of town ended up living in the dorms over at Rutgers right across Troost avenue from K C. So I was you know, living in one at one school going to another. But they were right across the street from each other, and they had a little campus radio station. I got on the air as a disc jockey? And then as I kinda got into my letter part of my junior year and into my senior year. I I was more interested in broadcasting sports, and they weren't really doing that. So I got the permission of the manager of the GM of the station who was a faculty member to string a cable out to the bleachers in the spring. And we did the baseball games. We we had a cable over in the basketball arena. We did some rockers basketball games. And during the fall, we took that same cable strung it across the bay literally across left field of the baseball field and up into the bleachers of the soccer field, which was right on the third base line of the the baseball stadium. If indeed you would even bother to call it a stadium. So I would sit up there with a clipboard a microphone a little, you know, amplifier box and just kind of announced the games. I'd get the rosters of the team that was visiting. I'd get the rockers roster got to know the coach and everything. And then in my senior year they went to the playoffs. Down in North Carolina. We did those games we had a blast following the team. And that's really when I kinda started cutting my teeth on actually doing play by play. None of it was live on the air, except when the team was at home when we were on the road. I take a big old pioneer real. The real tape recorder with me thing weighed about thirty pounds or more. And we'd take a long they're put it up on the bleachers. Hope that didn't rain and do the soccer games from up on the bleachers. Wherever we might be. Then we'd bring him back and we play them back on Sunday evening during dinner hour, while the whole school was in the cafeteria eating 'cause rockers probably only had about twelve hundred kids in school at that time. So that's kind of how I got started in soccer. But I always wanted to be a baseball announcer actually came to Tulsa in the spring of nineteen seventy six to be the number two announcer. No travel, home games only. And I I had a sales job selling radio advertising during the day for the legendary owner of the Tulsa. Oilers a race Smith that was at that time the cardinals AAA ballclub. And that was the team that moved out of Tulsa because the stadium was falling down. They actually this is crazy. Absolutely crazy. They went to New Orleans for two years and played in the Superdome as the New Orleans. Pelicans of the American Association that team eventually moved to Springfield, Illinois and finally found its way to Louisville Kentucky where it is to this day. And they were they were still cardinal farm club. And that's the team that said all the attendance records playing on the old fairgrounds there in Louisville. So you know, that was kind of the start of my baseball career nineteen seventy eight the Tulsa roughnecks came to town. I know I was the only guy in Oklahoma who knew how to announce the soccer game. 'cause when the baseball team left town. A Ray offered me less money to go to New Orleans, then I was already making selling advertising until so I decided not to go with the baseball team stayed around did high school sports. Football basketball. You name it whatever I could get my hands on and the funny thing about that is about six months after I decided to stay until so I met the girl who I married almost forty years ago. So if I had left with the team and gone on to New Orleans, you know, God knows how different my life would have been. But that's pretty much. How I got started in baseball. And of course, shocker when the Tulsa roughnecks got here. All right. So so let's let's unpack the the Tulsa roughnecks thing for because I think a lot of people of a certain generation, especially those who were big NSL later MIS fans, probably got to know, your voice best from some of those games as well as some of the national spillover, I guess in some of those environment. How so how did you? Discover and how did you sort of get yourself in a position to get into the rough next conversation? Was it more you finding it or it finding you or how did it all come about the roughnecks gig? I think it was a combination. One of two things because I was selling advertising as I said, not really what I wanted to do. I was doing. Okay. People told me I was pretty good at it. But I was selling for a station that had, you know, very very low ratings, and it was just it was a day to day struggle. I really got my joy from doing those high school games on Friday nights and on the weekends. You know football basketball, as I mentioned, it's kind of funny. There's a little suburb of Tulsa called Sepulchre Oklahoma, just about ten miles west of where my house is right now just outside of town. They a little radio station called K OJ and a guy named Mike. Stevens was the guy who ran the station and owned the station ran it. And it was funny because he was my color, man. But all he did was read commercials. He didn't provide any analysis at all. So I'd go do Sepulchre high school football game on Friday night for twenty five dollars. That was my talent feet, and he would sit there and not do anything while I was doing play by play offs pretty much gone. And solo with whatever notes, I could get from you know, both coaches and then during basketball season at five thirty I'd you know, I'd I'd leave work early about four four o'clock four thirty drive over to Sepulchre the girls game was at five thirty the boys game was at seven. And I do two games on Friday night. I'd get thirty five dollars for doing those two games. And you know, we'd go to the state playoffs. I I remember one year we went down to Oklahoma City and did the state playoffs. And a lot of the little towns didn't have radio stations that carried the well they had radio stations. But they didn't have any announcers. So Mike would sell those games to these little towns. And I remember one a couple of times in one day. He and I would do eight basketball games in a row working off the program, names and numbers and just doing those games. So that's what I really got interested in play by play. And that's why when the roughnecks came to town I basically walked into Noah lemons office, he. Was the new GM that team had come from Hawaii. They were team Hawaii out there. And they transferred to Tulsa for some reason they found local ownership with Tom Keita who is the owner of the big big bakery here called rainbow bread. I guess they were the Tulsa version of wonder bread. And he was the owner know lemon was the GM, and I just walked into their offices in February of nineteen seventy eight and said, I know how to broadcast soccer, I know how to sell advertising, I'll do whatever you want me to do. You know, I'll I'll go line the field or cut the grass if you want me to well that was a necessary because skelly stadium where university of Tulsa plate had artificial turf. But basically, Tim I walked into their office waited, I don't know fifteen or twenty minutes to get into. She know he called Tom Peter in while I was in there, and I walked out of there an hour later with a job, which I was very happy to leave my radio job selling advertising. So pretty soon. I'm the first voice raid. Jio in TV of the Tulsa roughnecks. The games are on the biggest radio station in town K R M MG, which was one of the the big time swertz stations in Oklahoma. We were on the local ABC affiliate kind of unusual. We did radio for the home games and TV for the road games. And that was actually the analyst on TV with Chris Lincoln who is the sports director at KTEL channel eight. So that's how it all got started with my basically, you know, getting squatting rights in their office until somebody would talk to me. And it was it was funny because I I literally did walk out of there with a job. And I even got a slight raise from what I was making. So it was interesting because I was doing the games. I was doing the program, you know, helping our PR guy do kick magazine which was our program that came out for the game. I was driving players around to all the little places around northeastern, Oklahoma. We had a big soccer presence here. Among kids with the green country soccer assoc. And this corner of Oklahoma is called green country. It's really green. We have a lot of lakes. It's just it's a beautiful part of Oklahoma, not the dust bowl that most people think of when they think about our state, but we traveled around to all those little towns. We did clinics. We did appearances Charlie Mitchell, a hard nosed defender, one of my dearest friends ever over the years he came with the team from Hawaii. He was the captain of the team. He was later become the coach of the roughnecks after he retired Charlie, and I basically wondered northeastern Oklahoma and anywhere we could find a school that had kids were playing soccer, Charlie. We'd go do clinics. I'd put on a soccer uniform because I had played as a kid, you know. And I'd kick the ball back and forth to him. He would show off his soccer skills. Some of the other players did that as well. And that's really how the whole thing. Got started here in nineteen seventy eight I still remember the first game the Detroit express who played in the silver. Dome up in Pontiac Michigan. They came here for our first game of the season. And I think we drew maybe forty five hundred or five thousand people the roughnecks loss to to one. Our only goal was scored by future starve our team Billy Caskey who came over with Victor Moreland from the Glenn Turin football club in Northern Ireland. You know, they were Bill fast kids rough and tumble Irish kids who got a chance to come over here and play they were the two most popular players with Charlie Mitchell. Those three were our most popular players, and you know, ten that's how the whole thing got started back in nineteen seventy eight and it kind of went from there. So how how how quote unquote, major league was all this experience. I mean. Yeah. Exactly. So I mean, I'm sure sort of a little bit of both. Right. I mean, obviously, the NFL was sort of a white hot comet especially around that time. But also as wasn't necessarily the established major league baseball presence that you were probably still, you know. You know for your future. Well, you know, I remember we marketed ourselves as Oklahoma's only major league sport. Which in a way was true, Tulsa and Oklahoma City had minor league hockey, they both had minor league baseball, you know, and obviously Oklahoma football. Oklahoma state football, Tulsa football Arkansas university of Arkansas is only two hours away. So, you know, those are the main things around here. So it took a while for soccer to make those inroads, and, you know, gradually the crowd starting started getting bigger, you know, we were the smallest city in the league. You know, we were smart smaller than Portland, Oregon, and certainly smaller than Seattle and San Diego, you know, the Sounders in Seattle, the San Diego soccer's, the San Jose earthquakes, the Chicago sting the Dallas tornado the Saint Louis stars had moved to Anaheim and had had become the. Surf of all things, you know, we have the Cosmo's in New York and all that. And of course, the Minnesota kicks. They weren't really that close to us. Dallas was our number one rival and now Miller who had one and NASA L championship with Philadelphia. He was the coach down in Dallas Tolson. Dallas got a pretty good rivalry going. Because one of the other guys who own the roughnecks was h ward lay of Lay's potato chip fame. And he was based in Dallas. So the Tulsa Dallas thing got to be a pretty good rivalry and the old NSL we played at skelly stadium at the university of Tulsa, and they played it own field at SMU before they moved eventually to Texas stadium where the Cowboys played out there in Irving, so you know, those were fun days. But we were always the underdog Noah lemon was a fiery Irishman himself in Northern Ireland. He loved getting his name and the name of the team, of course in the newspapers here we had two newspapers here. At that time, Tulsa world was the morning paper tosa Tribune was the afternoon paper the Tribune win away. I don't know twenty five years ago. Maybe, but you know, no, one was always trying to cook up some controversy. You know, it was always us against them. You know, that's the way we kinda portrayed. The roughnecks says the little guys in the league from the smallest market 'cause Tampa Bay rowdies rejoin on a lot of people the Atlanta chiefs were doing, okay, the Cosmo's all these other teams, and the became kind of a fun thing. And the roughnecks probably were a real pain in the butt to fill Wu's them and the NASO office from time to time. 'cause it seemed like there was always some kind of controversy involving tall ship. We lost a game. You know? No would chase the referees off the field that skelly stadium. You know stuff that GM's really shouldn't be doing and and I'm working in the front office. I'm doing the games. I'm learning. A lot about the business of soccer. And I learned a lot about how not to do. Things watching Noel work. You know, he was a tough boss. He was tough on me. But there were times when he was very charming. And I felt like he was my best friend in the world. And then we'd lose a game on Saturday night. And then he'd be my worst enemy when I you know, got back to the office on Monday morning. It was a real roller coaster ride in and those were the early days. But here's something I will never forget. I think it was our second game. And maybe our third game of the season. We lost to Detroit as I told you and then I the second team to come. In was I think they were called the Toronto metros at that time. This is before they were the Toronto blizzard who tells later playing the soccer bowl in nineteen eighty three out in Vancouver and win that soccer bowl. They came in. I think Tulsa beat him to nothing or two to one we had about ten thousand fans show up and all of a sudden people were starting to take notice. Well, the next week we go to giant stadium in the Meadowlands to play the cosmos and the roughnecks battle them to a. Scoreless tie for about eighty seven or eighty eight minutes and in the closing minute and a half or so of the game, the the cosmos get a free kick right outside the penalty area. So the roughnecks set up the wall. And and I'm I'm assuming it was George okay now. Leo who took the kick. It might have been him or Franz Beckenbauer. I think maybe it was Beckenbauer the great German who took the free kick one of the guys rookie in our wall. Flinched the ball went right through his legs, and our goalkeeper was screened and Colin Bolton goalkeeper he came over from England. He couldn't see the ball a win the net. There were seventy eight thousand people in the Meadowlands that day and the cosmos beat Tulsa one to nothing. So here comes the David Goliath thing. Again, the the roughnecks lose only one nothing in the last minute and a half to the mighty Cosmo's. And then we kind of went on from there until started becoming a better soccer city as we got through that seventy eight season before. Where we were finally eliminated made the playoffs where eliminated up at old metropolitan stadium in Bloomington. Minnesota when the Minnesota kicks beat us to one I think it was. And we had two goals. Disallowed on offsides. Calls and you can imagine how the Tulsa people reacted to that. Because we were David trying to beat Goliath again, and that didn't work out. That's how I season didn't tell some kind of became a pretty good soccer shitty. After that. I was I was actually in that crowd of that Tryon stadium game. So I think I remember that goals matter-of-fact too. I don't wanna I don't wanna call him out because he was now standing player, but you know, I I love thinking about these kids. These American kids who came in played 'cause you had to have at least two Americans on the field at all times during that time. And I think he was from Hartwick college, which was either in New Jersey or upstate New York. His name was Billy zones. And billy. He was a fun kid. I I really enjoyed Billy. He won the Hermann award, which is soccer's Heisman, of course. And the roughnecks drafted him and he was rookie. And he and the kid next to him. I can't remember who the other player wasn't extent had a little flinch. And then the ball got through the wall and beat goalkeeper. But you know, Billy went on to have a really good couple years with the roughnecks. And you know, those American kids Tim had to be tough because there are playing with older Morris tablist professional guys. Most of our team was from England or airland Charlie Mitchell was from Scotland. And then of course, we had a couple of Yugoslavians they came in played with a story on nNcholas who is a really hard nosed defender. Ninos lava Zeltser who is a little bitty guy who played the wing who is just a magician with the ball. And that was the makeup of our team with a couple of Americans sprinkled in here. And there I think there was a kid named Jimmy mccune who. As from rider college Billy solder who's a Philadelphia kid. And I can't remember where he went to school. But these were kids who had to be pretty tough to survive in those days back in the NSL. So what are you seeing around sort of the rest of the league? And is it opening your purview? Obviously, you're getting smarter about sort of the both sides of the Mike, shall we say, you're you're obviously in quote, unquote, big league sports, right? Especially in your your your town of quote unquote of Tulsa, right? I mean, you're almost like you. You've got a nice little purview from a smaller perch, if you will to sort of bigger bigger things in a broader landscaper, I'm assuming you're getting some tapes out there too in some some some notice from folks either elsewhere in the league or in other sports to know. Well, and then and the other thing was with channel eight here. We also had a local cable system. It's it's it's part of the Cox cable family now but back then it was simply called Tulsa cable. And they used to like to carry local sports too. And some of our soccer games after they weren't on channel late anymore. We're on Tulsa cable, and I I remember going around the league and talking to some of the other PR guys. Paul writings junior was with the tornado down in Dallas, Tom Meredith was with the Philadelphia team. And I would talk to these guys in gym trekker was the guy in the league office up in New York who kind of oversaw the PR and all the, you know, local PR guys would keep in touch with him. And you know, kind of forged a personal relationship with those guys because I wanted to know what they were doing that. I could help make our situation better. I think we had a big advantage. Tim actually being in a smaller market, Tulsa right now is a city of about four hundred fifty thousand maybe four hundred thousand somewhere in that area. We have some big suburbs around, and you know, our total metropolitan areas. Probably I don't know. Seven hundred thousand six fifty something like that. And it was easier for us to get on TV and on radio because soccer here was a big deal. You know, we had double a baseball here in the in this summer at that time the Tolson drillers who came in here via the Texas Rangers. They were the team that came in here after the tosa Oilers left, and so we had double a baseball. But you know, the so called a major league sport. I think we did a pretty good job of involving the green country soccer association with the clinics and got the kids to this. You know, we we offered all kinda of crazy discounts and freebies to get kids to drag their parents to the soccer game. And then we found out that some of the parents, you know, most of all were football fans because hey, we're in Oklahoma. This is this is Primo highschool and college football country here, and then graduate that we went over some of the adults to the game of soccer. So that's kind of how that whole thing happened. But I'd go around the league and talk to these guys. And they were they were like how how in the world. Do you guys? Get your games on the local ABC affiliate on TV. And how did you get this deal with the biggest radio station in town? Well, that was a byproduct of us being a mid size market as opposed to Philly or New York or Dallas or Chicago, you know, were there. Most of those teams are on these obscure little radio stations and some of them couldn't even get their games on television. There wasn't much of a national package of games. I don't think until about nineteen seventy nine or nineteen eighty. So we really had an advantage here of how you're able to market our team compared to some of those other teams who had more people from whom to draw than we did unwittingly giving you some more skills than some more, the background and depth in terms of your your overall resume so to speak, right. Yeah. Well, and then eventually, and and I I, you know, ESPN signed on the air in the winter of nineteen seventy nine if I remem-. Correctly, you know, some sometime around this time of the year. So if you think about that that's forty years ago 'cause when I came out of college from you, I'm KC as a December nineteen seventy five graduate ESPN was still about four years away from even being a blip on anybody's screen. You know, when I came out of school. My first job was a radio news job in tiny Jonesboro, Arkansas. Our from Memphis where Arkansas state university is and before I actually was able to make my way over it's also to do some baseball the minor league games that I talked about earlier. And you know, opportunities were limited. You either went to a small town in worked. If you had it broadcasting ry, or if you decided if I would have decided to stay in Kansas City, I probably would have been pulling cable or pouring coffee or working in a mail room at one of the local TV stations and struggling to get on the air. So you know, I got out of town and started doing all kinds of different things. I could do so. Somebody ESPN noticed me doing soccer. And I started getting some phone calls from them. And then you know, did a few indoor games in between seasons because they had an indoor league the following year. They called me to do some outdoor soccer games. And I remember one thousand nine hundred eighty two when I got fired by the local NBC ABC affiliate here. I was actually there sports director when Chris Lincoln left to take on some other opportunities one day after I got fired Ellen Beckwith. A dear friend of mine who is the talent coordinator at ESPN and called and said, hey, can you come up here and spend about a week bobbly is going to be our play by play guy. We want you to be our analyst, and you guys are going to sit in the studio for a week and a half or so and voice over the World Cup soccer games coming in from Spain. So, you know, I'm like, hey, I'll go stay at the Holiday Inn in Bristol, Connecticut. For a week and a half to get on ESPN. And that's what Bobby and I did Bob did the play by play. I was actually his analyst there just weren't that many soccer announcers around at that time. You know, shame Mellon would become a great analyst with the cosmos, and eventually ESPN I actually worked with shameless during the ninety four World Cup when it came here and bobbly I think did nine or ten games, and I did ten games in that World Cup with some other guys sprinkled in. I think Randy Hahn from the San Diego soccer's did some games. Roger Twi Bill did the ABC games that involved team USA, which we never got to do on the ESPN games. So somebody you at at ESPN noticed me. And then I got a call from Jim's rake who to this day is a great friend of mine in probably had as much influence on my network, Kara's anybody, and he said, Bobby we wanna come come on up to New York. I want you to meet Kate of its who runs USA network. We want you to do some things. I'll trot wig was doing some stuff. For them. And then L departed to go to CBS. And all of a sudden, I was doing some national soccer games on USA network indoor and outdoor as well. So, you know, in those early days soccer was really big even some college games for ESPN. I remember watching ESPN in the middle of the afternoon. They have a game from Seattle with Seattle Pacific university on their, you know, playing somebody else from the west coast so soccer while it was still in its infancy professionally in this country. It did become a vehicle of opportunity for me and some other guys whose names I mentioned, and and you know, and then later when I was doing the Saint Louis steamers MIS ISO games whenever I'd have a conflict, and has Bush would call John Paul della camera to come in and do some games that I couldn't I think J P was doing the Pittsburgh spirit indoor games and now his resume for the last thirty years has probably been the best of any American soccer announcer or. Least somebody doing soccer in America who doesn't have a British accent. And you know, J P became a great soccer announcer while I kinda wondered off into baseball and other things. So those early days were fun. They were days of opportunity there were a lot of hurdles that we had to jump over here and there, but I look back on that time in my career with a lot of fun this back in the late seventies and the early eighties. I I don't know. I don't know if you wondered off Bob, but you know, I I, you know, we did have a conversation off from soccer. I'll put it that. Okay. Fair enough somewhat arguing pastures we had JP on a couple of months ago. And I think he he directly attributes his his opportunity with a steamer says as sort of a pivotal in his in his career. So you know, we had. Yeah. And you know, that was my hometown. And then has a Bush brought me back, you know, to do the steamers. I think I started did the steamers I think from maybe I don't want eighty one to eighty four or something like that. And. Then I got some college basketball opera -tunities and a little bit more baseball here in there. You know, we didn't call them JP. He was his John Paul back then. But I mean, he's he's just done fantastic. And I I love it. I I gotta be honest. Some being I'm being provincial. Here. I'm being you know, a little American selfish here. But I always enjoy it when I turn on a game and Jay doing it. And it it's not somebody. They brought over from the other side of the pond to do American soccer. There's just something about our guys doing soccer and doing it. Well, and some didn't do it very well. But I I would hope that I did it pretty well because I did get some opportunities. But J P, you know, he's become the guy over the years. And I'm so happy that he has forged in that game the career that he has. But I tell you what the whole the whole Saint Louis thing. Tim is interesting because then Heiser boyish had a president. His name was Danny long. Denny. Along loved soccer. And because of that that led to Anheuser-Busch being a big sponsor in the early days of the NSL. You know, you'd see Budweiser banners in most of the NFL stadiums. They sponsored indoor soccer, and it was kind of interesting because Saint Louis never had other than the steamers when they were drawn eighteen thousand game to the Saint Louis arena for indoor outdoor Saint Louis. Just never had a great professional soccer tradition. They didn't have a good field. They didn't have a great stadium in which to play. You know, they tried playing Busch stadium or the cardinals and the football cardinals played before they left for era Zona, but you know, they drew a couple of twenty thousand crowds here and there, but it was Denny long spearheading the whole thing, Dan. How's your boy that I think had a lot to do with the success of soccer in America? And we also had a sponsor here in Tulsa, Tulsa used to be called the oil cap. Title the world because so many oil companies were based here and one of those was Getty oil out of New York. They had a major presence here. They had a refinery here, and they were a big sponsor of roughnecks soccer along with Anheuser Busch. And some of the others that were there, but but I really think on a national basis the NFL would never have made much headway and probably wouldn't have survived as long as it did without the support of Getty oil, but but a foreign away number one was in Bush because of what any long did for the sport coming out of the brewery and Saint Louis, that's very interesting. And and actually ironically Getty, obviously, the the original money behind the originally began as well, exactly. I I don't have inside information on what those two had to do with each other. But I do know without Getty oil, and and then has your Bush soccer would have had no chance in a town like Tulsa, and I would think in in other places around the country as well. All right time for me to catch my breath. Get a cool tasty beverage and remind you while we do so that our friends at audible are here to remind you that you can get a free audiobook download of your choice from over one hundred eighty thousand titles. If you go to audible trial dot com slash good seats and use that link, of course to try for yourself, a free audiobook on us grads. If you will, and you will love the idea of audiobooks, it's it's an awesome way to kill time. And occupy stimulate your mind, perhaps when you're is busy doing something else. And of course, there are plenty of interesting books to be found especially in the world of sports in sports history. I think our audience might enjoy a few of these of course, including the seminal work by baseball legend Jim Boughton called ball four. It is not only written. But it's also narrated by him. You could you. Your free credit for that book. And of course, as you know, all four centers around the nineteen sixty nine one year wonder that is the was the Seattle pilots of major league baseball. But obviously, the the background for a whole lot of other observations about sport baseball, and it remains to this day, perhaps one of the most celebrated writings about the sport of baseball in this country. Of course, you could also if you're not a big baseball fan, you can go to the world of soccer with the autobiography called my turn by Johann cry the late Johan crime, perhaps one of the world's best ever soccer players. He of Dutch heritage. Of course, plenty of great legendary years at club play as well as national team playing for the Dutch team as well as for our audience, maybe a little bit interest a his journeys in the North American Soccer league in the late seventies and early eighties with the Washington diplomats and the Los Angeles as techs, and of course, if you're into football, there's probably no. Or book, especially if you find yourself really interested in this sort of deep and rich history of the NFL with the book called NFL football history of America's new national pastime is written by Richard propo- and narrated by Marlin may that to is an audiobook that you could choose from over like, I said a hundred eighty thousand titles. There's got to be something in there. That's going to be of interest to you invite all means give it a try, and we appreciate your doing. So at audible trial dot com slash good seats. And again, you're going to get your free. Audiobook download you can cancel at any time. And again, even if you cancel it. You can keep that book as long as your device exists. So again, we appreciate give it a try audible trial dot com slash good seats. And now back to our conversation. I just think it's interesting to that Saint Louis Wright has even still in today's Major League Soccer, which I know is it's on their radar. They're they're still an always in the mix. And there's always seems to be ownership issues or field issues and stuff. I mean, you know, Saint Louis is arguably one of the small handful of true cradles of soccer in this country. Largely, you know, born from ethnic and first general. Immigrants and all that. And and and still Saint Louis, you know, doesn't have sort of the the crown jewel of top tier professional soccer in this country is kind of there's no doubt about the fact that Saint Louis is the greatest soccer city in America. That does not have a frontline major league professional team. I it's one of the great mysteries to be. I know the stadium thing has been an issue continues to be so, and I I've seen the drawings online for five years of this wonderful looking soccer stadium that they want Bill just west of Union Station in Saint Louis Union Station, the old train station. That's on the fringe of downtown. It looks fantastic. But for some reason, it just hasn't gone in Saint Louis, and to me, that's a big mystery. I just one last thing while we're talking about Saint Louis, it, can you just give us a little bit of a feeling I guess of what this sort of steamers thing was like because indoor soccer, ironically. Right. You know, he. Yeah. This was the MIS. Essentially became sort of this offshoot of an indoor game that you had experienced a little bit with with the roughnecks and the NSL that right ASL hadn't put a lot of effort into his more more of a sideshow. And and hear coming form and tapper to kind of make league out of it. And then one's up eating the NSL. If you think about it. But during the nineteen eight yeah, it was interesting because you know, and in this area, we had three teams within a two hundred and fifty mile area that were just drawing. Unbelievable crowds for indoor soccer. Now, you know. And and that was Saint Louis that was Kansas City. And that was Wichita so may maybe about a three hundred and fifty mile radius. 'cause when we at NASA indoor soccer here in Tulsa, we draw five thousand a game the fans kinda liked it. You know, it was a fun deal. But it was not a big deal when the MIS came along Saint Louis playing that old barn over there on the highlands old parking lot there. By forest park. They were joined eighteen thousand game. There was a while when they were outdrawing the blues who played in the same building, the Kansas City comets and Kemper arena was brand new back then the comments were drawing fourteen fifteen sixty thousand a game. And then you go out to this barn of an arena. North of Wichita wasn't even in the city limits. I don't think and ROY Turner who had been the head coach. I think of the Dallas tornado in the outdoor league, you know. And they were the Wichita wings. And I I wanna tell you. I thought the nastiest place I ever had to go as a visiting broadcaster was when I did basketball for the university of Tulsa, we had to go to the roundhouse in Wichita to take on Wichita state and those teams that were so tough to play back then. But when I tell you when the steamers went to the Kansas Coliseum, which I think was out like on some stockyards or something, and they they made it into an indoor soccer arena that. That was the toughest. Wow. I mean, you you the toughest. And I I'm trying to think of a way to describe this crowd, without, you know, seeing the actual things they used to say to us as protesters' and to our team at times, it could be a kind of kind of ideal in. But I'll tell you what they did an unbelievable job. They had this kid named Omar Gomez who scored goals like crazy. They had a kind of midfield player named kin wrote. Vid. Who is as good as any indoor player, I saw who was strong. And he I think he was from the Netherlands or from sweet something and this kid was strong. He was just an unbelievable indoor soccer player, but I'll tell you to what really made Saint Louis go was the fact that other than the goalie the famous Slobo Iliev ski who came over paid Yugoslavia ever in professional indoor soccer, slowly Bobo. I mean, his name was slow, but Don and everybody. He called him slow, and he was fantastic. I mean, diving saves you know, jumping all over the place making saves you couldn't believe and the Saint Louis fans loved him. But other than slow bow and one or two other guys on the team, Tim, they were pretty much all Saint Louis kids. You know, Don Ebert was the striker. He was like the Phyllis Zito of the MIS L. He didn't look like the most skilled guy out there, but he'd get rebounds and put them in an ad he'd deflect the ball he'd he'd redirect. We had all these kids. We had Tony Bellinger. Who who was an American kid Ricky Davis who played for the cosmos toward the end of his career. He came in played in Saint Louis. Catch a Tory there were three catch a Tory brothers. I think a couple of them played for the steamers. They were from my neighborhood in south Saint Louis. Timmy Walters was a Saint Louis kid all these guys and the fans absolutely fell in love with them and fell in love with this. Team. We had an African American kid on the team. Who is a great defender. Carl rose was his name, and our fans just adored these guys because they knew him they knew who they were you know, and some of the Saint Louis guys. Pat McBride who is a very celebrated soccer player and coach out of Saint Louis. He was the coach of the steamers for awhile. In fact, I remember one time we came back from a road trip that didn't go real well, and we were waiting for our bags at the carousel and the Saint Louis airport and before any bags came out pet. Mcbride came writing up the belt from down in the basement. I don't know how he did it, obviously, this is before nine eleven which could pull off something like this before any bags came out Technic bride came out of the belt and through the little door and onto the carousel. The win around a couple of times and the guys were laughing so hard they were on the floor. And you know, that that's kind of funny stuff that used to happen. And you know, what you don't see anymore. But those were great days with the Saint Louis steamers and. The thing for me was I was up in the press box on the east side of the rink that time because that's where the blues played and I was sitting in the same seat that the unbelievably great hockey announcer. Dan, Kelly set in when he did the Saint Louis blues games and two guys who were local coaches one was Bob Burnett who is still living, and he was superintendent of Athens schools in Saint Louis forever. He was my analyst when he couldn't do the games another great Saint Louis named Bob Keough who died recently Bobby would come in. And do be my analyst, my my younger Sister, Mary was my stat guys sitting next to me and we had a blast. But I'm I'm never forget the first time I sat in that press box. And I'm thinking I'm sitting in the same seat where Dan Kelly sits to Saint Louis blues hockey game. And that was that was a wonderful time for me. And that was a great time for soccer and Saint Louis. Well, I so maybe you can. One more soccer question, and I wanna use that as the segue to what what blossomed into finally getting into into the baseball thing and for and for good arguably. I saw that. I sent you a clip I think from the nineteen Eighty-three soccer ball, which at which also Toronto blizzard. Right. But you're, but you're you were also mentioning on that broadcast that that you had been doing some team America broadcasts. So. Yeah. So how did it come? It was that it was that a bud sports thing. Yes, sir. And I was already doing some stuff for bud. Sports in nineteen eighty three. The washington. Diplomats had folded I remember going to RFK stadium and playing those guys, and they had this striker from I can't remember if he was England or some other part of your name is Paul canal. He was a really good goal score. And he was kinda guy who the Washington diplomats rebounder. I think I think later Johan Cruyff might have come over and played there for a while. And I think he eventually landed with the team in Detroit, but that year Washington DC did not have soccer in the NFL. The diplomats had gone away. I don't know if they moved or folded, I can't remember but Anheuser-Busch decided to put the US national team in training as a member of the North American Soccer league. They were called team America. They played sixteen games at RFK stadium. They played sixteen games on the road. Just like any other team in the league they were in the standings. I don't know. If they were I don't I don't know how they were paying those kids if they were the US national team in training. I don't know if they were getting paid by the US soccer federation or by the NFL or by Anheuser Busch. But I think that was another Denny long concoction. So they basically put a team in Washington. I did the games with Gordon Bradley who had coached the cosmos who had coached in Washington and would also be 'cause I know you saw the tape. He was my analyst in the booth for the NFL soccer bowl that year in Vancouver. When Tulsa beat the Toronto blizzard two to nothing in front of fifty thousand fans out there in the dome stadium in Vancouver. And so we did sixteen home games. I would fly up to Washington on almost a weekly basis. Stay in a hotel take the metro over to the stadium. Do a team America game. We would cover them like they were the hometown team. And I don't remember. I don't think they made the playoffs, you know. 'cause. They were bunch of kids playing against Moore establish. You know, tell I think Jeff Durgin who had played for the cosmos was on that team. I don't have a roster sitting in front of me of team America. But you know, they were kind of the cream of the crop. And they were playing as an actual franchise in the North American Soccer league that was the only year it happened. And that was in nineteen eighty three. That's very interesting Astros can in the history of the NFL. We actually had Rick Davis on sometime last year. And he actually says to this day. He lost a friendship with with Jeff Durgin because Durgin chose to play for his country, so to speak and Rick decided that he thought he wouldn't get any better exposure and playing time than being with the cosmos and riff that continues to this day. But very interesting. Yeah. Very interesting story, especially given the sort of rocky road, I guess of of Americans approach to World Cup soccer. And and and you know, now, we're in a lull again. And hopefully will maybe get out of it. Very interesting story. Yeah. In fact, I I'm just I'm just pulling up team America on Wikipedia here. And now some of these names are coming back to me. I mentioned Tony Bellinger who played for the Saint Louis steamers. He was on that team as a defender Arnie mouser was a goalkeeper Paul Hammond. Who is a very good young keeper Jeff Durgin was a defender on that team. Alan Merrick who I remember from the Minnesota kicks Perry. Vanderbeck just kind of looking at some of the other names Rudy. Glenn was recognizable midfielder, Tony Kresa. Telly was a top notch American defender on that team, Chico Bora. My goodness. I haven't looked at this list in thirty some years and then Greg villa? I've ever Greg villa. He was a big physical forward. He was a Saint Louis kid who played on that team. So it looks like they won ten games and lost twenty games that year. They finished fourth in the southern division. And as I guest moment ago did that qualify for the playoffs. But that was team America back in one thousand nine hundred eighty three and it looks like Al Qaeda's Panagoulias was the manager of that team. And they were the red white and blue. And that was a really interesting experience a little did. I know that I would go back to RFK stadium. Eleven years later to do several World Cup soccer games. And little did. I know that in two thousand and six I would come back to RFK stadium and worked two years of baseball there. My first two years with the Washington nationals before they would open their new ballpark nationals park in two thousand eight. All right. Well, so the remaining time we have left and you've been exceedingly generous so far. And it's a shame that you can't remember any of these old details. You're you're bringing stuff up for me, Tim that I haven't thought about in twenty years. I'm telling you at sadly, that's kind of what we do on this little show. And I think that's actually why it's a it starts to starting to resonate. So we I I appreciate it to no end. And I'm sure our audience will as well. But so. So maybe you can explain with some elegance how you were prodigious experience in this fledgling sport of soccer, right? Both outdoor indoor how that kind of set the table for other gigs and other exposure that ultimately got you. I think to your original dream, which was sort of this baseball thing. Right. Because you're getting national gaps in various sports, but I'm just curious to how you ultimately sorta get there. It's more of I guess broadcasting process question more than anything else. Well, and again, I have to go back to Saint Louis, and I have to go back to budge sports because there was I talked about Denny long and how much he loves soccer. And that's why it has Bush was involved in soccer. There was a gentleman there who was producer engineer for the cardinals and his his name will come to me her shortly. It's on the tip of my it's on the tip of my tongue. It'll come to me. But they brought me. So they brought me into 'em ISO soccer, okay? For the Saint Louis steamers. And it's funny because back then I was I always tried to be really versatile. I wanted to do baseball. That was that was always my thing that I wanted to do baseball. And I wanna do the cardinals. I mean, I grew up in Saint Louis grew up in New York, you dream of being the Yankee announcer someday. You know, those things it's going to work like that never thought that would really get the chance to do that Tom Barton, by the way was the guy whose name I was trying to think of Tom was over their production of bud sports. We'll Tom met me at spring training one year when I was just down there hanging out with my sister worked for the cardinals. And I went down to Saint Petersburg one year. I'm just kind of hanging out and doing some reports back to my local TV state radio station until sir, and we met and I told him he so you're judy's brother Judy Baird on my sister pretty well known with. In baseball circles and with the cardinals. And he says what are you doing down here? So I'm I'm doing some reports on, you know, the cardinals back to my radio station back until, sir. He said, well what else do you do? I said why do soccer I do football? I do basketball whatever you name it. I I can do it. I said sort of boasting Li I guess and he said, oh, really, so you so you think you can do anything. I said, yeah. I think if I'm giving my chance I can do anything he said, well, send me some tapes. So I did a couple of months later. He gives me a call. And this is interesting Tim because Anheuser Busch you have Budweiser. You have Bud Light. You have Michelob you have Michelob light. You know, you have all these different brands, and what has your Bush did? And I thought this was marketing genius back then they would associate certain brands with certain sports, they would identify what their demographic audience was that they were shooting for and they would market those different beers to. Through those different sports, and they would televise some of those sports. So it was really crazy. I'd get a call from Anheuser Busch. I never forget this. They said, hey, we're doing a rugby match up in Chicago this weekend. Fly up to Chicago Friday, find out as much about these teams as you can. And we're going to carry a rugby match on tape delay on Saturday. You're going to be the play by play guy. He said have you ever done rugby before? And I said, no. But I've watched a lot of it on TV, which was probably one third of a truthful statement. And I went up there. They gave me some analysts who knew all about the game. And it was sponsored by Michelob Michelob was rugby, you know. And then they'd send me the Saint Louis, and I'd do bowling bowling was, Bud Light. Actually Budweiser soccer was Budweiser. They sent me to New Orleans. We did some pre production and post production on some speedboat races in New Orleans, and that was Bud Light. And so I got to do all these different sports. Through Anheuser-Busch because they're different brands of beer were sponsoring these things. And then finally after Tom Barton figured out that I wasn't lying about the fact that I was versatile. I could do different things Anheuser Busch signed a cable network on the air in nineteen eighty four called the sports time cable network. It had it was in three cities. It was in Saint Louis Cincinnati and Kansas City, the Saint Louis region would get the cardinal games. The Kansas City region would get the royals and the Cincinnati region would get the rich and this network spawned several guys who would, you know, later be big league announcers, and and I was the cardinal guy. They named me the cardinal announcer. I worked with Mike, Shannon. Jack book would come over for the middle three innings. Mike would go back to radio, and I'm sitting next to my boyhood idol, Jack buck, Steve physio who still an outstanding announcer with the royals to this day and has done things for ESPN and FOX he was the he was one. Of the Kansas City guys, Ken Wilson longtime NHL great announcer. Who also did the cardinals later and did the Saint Louis blues? He was the guy in Cincinnati. So that's how I got my big break to break into major league. Baseball in nineteen Eighty-four problem was the network, and we were doing like fifty two games, you know, 'cause back then teams weren't doing that many home games. The owners still felt the televising home games would hurt the gate. So, you know, there were a limited number of home games on TV. So we did mostly road games. And problem was that that network lost so much money. They lost the amount of money in one year that they were supposed to lose in three years, and then has Bush pulled the plug on the network, and I was one and done with my my cardinal job in Saint Louis. I got to do some games filling in for Ken Wilson and for Jack and Mike Shannon on radio during the nineteen eighty five season, you know, but the writing was on the wall for me and Saint Louis. Louis I had to go somewhere else to do baseball. So eighty six auditioned and got a job with the Texas Rangers. I did four years with them in nineteen Eighty-eight ESPN hard me away from USA network. Were this wonderful man named gyms rake hired me to do US open, Tennis Masters golf college football college basketball on USA network. Even did some boxing for them, which I hated, but it was a paycheck, and it was part of my job with them. And from that job ESPN noticed being hired me in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight to do football and basketball. And then after I lost the Rangers job at the end of the eighty nine season ESPN Adamy to their major league mix when they picked up major league baseball in nineteen eighty and norm. Hitch Choson I did the first ever regular season baseball game on ESPN opening day nineteen ninety the Baltimore Orioles. Beat the Kansas City Royals at Royal stadium in Kansas City Sam horn, they're big slugger hit a couple of homers into the. Fountain. And that was often running with the SPN baseball, which I did through the year two thousand and five. So that's kind of how the whole baseball thing went. I eventually returned back to Saint Louis and ninety five and worked there till five mainly on TV. But but I was doing the games on free TV and most of the games were migrating to cable they already had a cable crew doing those games. So I could see the writing on the wall. So with one year left on my contract and Saint Louis. My agent Allen Sanders, who's based in New York. He he got me an opportunity to audition with the Washington nationals. They flew me up. I interviewed at Midlantic sports network in Baltimore. They're headquartered in the warehouse there out right field at Camden Yards. They told me down to RFK back to our case stadium where I interviewed with the nationals and they hired me about they hired me on March first two thousand and six one month before the big league season started and that was thirteen years ago. So I'm getting ready for my fourteenth year with the nationals. All right. So I got two last questions for you. And I promise we'll up exclamation point on this has been very very intriguing, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate your time. Much fun. Okay. Well, we'll see if these last two questions fit that category. So this, and I you know, I originally heard you this is not a I'm not trying to sort of get into the the process of broadcasting. And that's that's for folks. Like, Joe good. With his play by play cats where I heard you a couple of months ago, which is an awesome podcast, by the way. If you haven't listened to it out there, and you really want to get a sense of sort of the the business of broadcasting, especially in the realm of sports, but it leads me to this question. And it's clear in all of the the stories that you're sort of recounting here. It is. It is a parapet Pedic life that one chooses one one goes into the broadcasting space for broad. I sports right. Because it sounds like you're you're in many cases that we kind of glossed over this, but you're doing multiple gigs simultaneously. If you will right. It's not like you're going from one full-time job to another per se. Right. And and it's. We did have a talk about your university of Oklahoma basketball coverage for for many years, and that kind of stuff how does how when did you sort of realize that that was sort of the the mindset of how to be successful in this crazy businesses that you've got to kind of keep your eyes open for things even though going well now, right? And you you know, and you have to know a lot about what you do. But you know, I talked about that rugby experience, and then has Bush sent me to San Diego one time for a triathlon. You know, I didn't know much about those guys, but I always consider myself a quick learner. And I think I and the people that he SPN I had a producer ESPN is aim was j Rothman, I did football and basketball with J. And he always told me that I had the best we call them boards. I call him charts. Whatever you call them. You know, your preparation boards for basketball and football. And Jay would always. Tell me that I had the best boards in the business. And he even told dick vitelle that and one night we were working together Dickey visa Bubby group Inder vis vis boards in the business, baby. You know, and you know, we had fun with that. So I think I always had a sense Tim of how to prepare for events. What information was was necessary. What information was maybe not that important. But I think also because I got such an early in my career working in TV in nineteen seventy eight 'cause that game I mentioned a giant stadium when the Cosmo's beat the roughnecks that was the first time I had ever appeared on television, except for my final exam at UM K C, you know, several years before that professionally that was the first time ever on TV. So I got a good taste of television early in my career. And I think I got a sense of what it's like to have an expert analyst sitting next to you. 'cause a lot of radio guys who radio for. A long time. They can have a problem transitioning over to TV because on radio, you're it, you know, and you might be going solo. And I did that. But I always found that really enjoyed working with analysts who were first of all good guys who didn't show up with an agenda. You know that they were going to be the superstar. They didn't care about anybody else. I really I really fed off my analysts 'cause I've got I've got to work with Billy Packer at CBS for some double games. Dick by tell Bill Raftery. Larry Conley Jim Valvano, Jimmy dykes. All these guys at ESPN. There were big influence on me Kevin Kiley early in my football career at ESPN. And I think what happened. And I my baseball list of guys I've gotten to work with it starts with hall of famers like Joe Morgan and Jim Palmer and Bob Gibson. And goes, you know, all the way through the list is to cease unbelievable guys who I had watched play. But I think Tim I developed the. Sense of how to make them feel good. And how to how to make them feel that they were, you know, the the main cog in the show, which on TV a lot of it is like that where the analyst is the star. And I'm okay with that. I know play by play guys who did not have a good time with that. Because they wanted to be the show. I never wanted to be the show. I always wanted to be part of the team. And I, and I think I develop a sense of how to work with those guys. And I just I just got a message through Twitter yesterday from Larry Sorenson an extra big league pitcher who I probably work three or four games with on ESPN like twenty years ago, and he just called me and said, hey, just wanted to send you know. You know, you're doing great. It was great working with you. And this is a guy that I worked with for maybe two months twenty years ago. You know, you just develop a relationship with these guys and the list goes on and on and on, and, you know, L Rabovsky, Ricky Horton and Saint Louis f. P Don Sutton Ray night, rob Dibble Tomba chore in Washington, all these guys that become personal friends and lifelong friends, and I hope that I would think I would hope that I have enough talent that I wouldn't be overmatched any situation, but I've been told by people over the years that my preparation, but maybe mo- most importantly, my ability to work with a lot of different analysts was a big part of my deal. 'cause when I was at ESPN, Tim for whatever reason I never became one of their big stars. But they gave Orel Hershiser to me when he broke in. They gave me Buck Showalter. They gave me digger Phelps. They give me other guys that were brand new analysts. And they said, hey, we'll give him to carpenter because we know he'll take care of them. He's a team player, and he'll let them shine. And because of that made lifelong friendships with all those guys, you know, Rick Sutcliffe was another guy that hadn't been on TV much, and they gave him to me. And I take. Greg pride when I look up on a Sunday night game or a big ESPN game. And I see those guys work. So I I think that's a big part of it. It sounds really simple, and really basic, but preparation and the ability to check your ego at the door and work with a lot of different people. I think it takes you a long way in my business. All right. Quick quick tangent. You want to tell the audience about how you made a little cottage business for yourself for that preparation. Nine nineteen Eighty-four. I'm doing the cardinal games. And I have it in my cabinet here. In my office sitting three feet away from me. I have a scorebook from bucks sporting goods in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And in that scorebook from April of nineteen Eighty-four is my first major league game at Dodger Stadium Willie McGee hit a couple of home runs. The cardinals beat the dodgers. I think it was eleven to seven something like that. And I'm working for a couple of months. I'm like this scorebook just is not doing it. For me. I wasn't aware of any other books out there. So I sat down to my hotel room somewhere on the road one night with two eight and a half by eleven pages and my ruler. And I laid out what I thought a scorebook should look like Whitey Herzog who was managing the cardinals back then he gave me one of his blank lineup sheets. I had never seen her scoreboard. A scorecard that had the bench guys and the available bullpen guys. Actually right there on the scorebook. So I decided to incorporate that into a regular scorebook configuration. You know, I tweaked it a lot over the years. And then and then I took it down to the local jiffy print had them put about fifty games worth of stuff in there. And I carried it around and had a cardboard cover. It had this really bad. Plastic binding, and you know, I'd be on the field somewhere. And I'd be done around the cage and some play by play would welcome and say, hey, man. Where'd you get that scorebook? I said well designed it I made up myself and a couple of guys would say, well, how can I get one of those? I tore the back page of the book out handed to my said here take this down the street to your jiffy print and have them make it well in nineteen ninety five and this is a Levin years after I designed the book somebody convinced me to to go public with it put it online, my wife, and my daughter, and I set my then one night, and we addressed we. We printed up a little brochure. We adjust brochures to every single eight AA and AAA minor league baseball team in the country addressed to their play by play announcer. And we got we got some pretty good response back. It's it's grown from. Then there's now two different kinds of books of big book for broadcast, a smaller book for fans that I developed in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight 'cause cardinal fans are asking me. Hey, we wanna keep track of Mark mcgwire's home runs. But your score books too. Big to bring to the ballpark. So I designed to smaller book that happened in ninety eight. So, you know, this past year, we sold over seventeen hundred score books, you know, the most we've ever sold, and I dunno never going to get rich off it. But it probably paid a couple of semesters of my daughter's college tuition along the way, so that's not a bad thing. But it's it's been fun to him because I've had orders from Japan Europe, the British Isles South America, Central America, Puerto Rico. I hear from a lot of fans in Canada fans of the blue Jay. Who square games up their old expo fans? So yeah, I guess it's become a bit of a cottage injuries, you know, industry to a certain extent, and it's been a fun thing. Because is is probably got me some notoriety, but I've met baseball fans from all over the world. And that's always a good thing are in the website for that is for our fantasy scorebook dot com. BC scorebook dot com. Got that. All right. Here's the last question as we slide into home base. So we just had a an episode last week about sort of some of the the history of of DC, and and baseball, which is surprisingly rich based for my sort of novice sort of perspective. So as the now longtime television in previous radio voice of of the nationals in in Washington. How aware are you of that heritage? And do you feel in some respects almost like a caretaker caretaker of what is basically one of the earliest pro teams in in all of baseball. I mean washing. In baseball. The a huge intersection over over time. I wonder if you feel any sense of nostalgia. Indoor cure caretaking. I guess of the of the legacy of baseball in Washington DC as you broadcast there. Probably. Yeah. Probably more take caretaking then their Stahl jap- because I didn't grow up there. But we've got a I got a friend there. Phil would who's the local baseball historian for all things baseball in DC. In fact, every night when you signed it off the air on the post game show. He doesn't say Audio's he says at Joost. And so, you know, Eddie Joost is one of those guys. And you know, you have all the and it's been great. I I've gotten to know Frank Howard a little bit over the years Frankel show up the ballpark, you know, once or twice a year. And it's fantastic to talk old school baseball with him. So, yeah, maybe more of a caretaker, you know. But I'm aware of bookie Harris. And of course, Walter the big train Johnson. And all those guys, you know, we've got those flags on the scoreboard up in right field. There's a blank flag up there. Just. Waiting for the next World Series in Washington DC, because, you know, the ones up there are from the twenties, and you know, from that old era of baseball when the senators, you know, and Walter Johnson was the guy, you know, they won one. But pretty soon it'll be one hundred years if the national do it soon. So yeah, definitely caretaking some of that try to be aware of it. The nationals are their own team. You know, we have some fans who don't even want to hear about their days in Montreal. I'd say most fans don't some do. But you know, there's a lot of pride in DC. Now about the fact that after waiting thirty some years, you know, they they have their own team. And and by the way, I never did radio in Washington. I'm gonna pay respect to Charlie slows radio guy because Charlie has been there from day one. And I'll never forget something. He told me Tim in two thousand five the nets had been on the road for the first week of the season. Then they came home leave on Hernandez on the mount to face the ozone Diamondbacks. And Charlie said as people came through the turnstiles people were crying, they had tears in their eyes because baseball was coming back to Washington DC. So, you know, that's something. I try to remember because it means the world to our fans to have baseball back in the nation's capital. Well, I I I'm not sure I got a tear in my eye. But I'm certainly that you would spend this much time with me regaling your path to what you're doing now. And I can't thank you enough. Bob carpenter. This has been an absolute blast. And I I appreciate you indulging me in some of the sort of memories of your earliest days in your career. And how to you got to where you are. And for your sake. I hope that in your broadcast career with the with the nets that you're able to fill in that that last pennant there as a as a nice guy. We we need to take care of now, Tim, really I I enjoy talking sports, and it's been fun for me to take a step back. You know, thirty one years ago, there's when that whole thing star. With the roughnecks. And you know, so it's been fun. And I appreciate your giving me the time. And you know, I hope the folks listening enjoy it as much as I did it going through these things with you. Well, that was just a fascinating chat. And I can't thank Bob carpenter enough for taking time out of his his spring training preparation for his what is it? Now. I think it's coming up on his fourteenth that year as being the television broadcaster for baseball's Washington nationals and thank Bob tremendously for letting us drag him back to kicking and screaming probably into some of his earliest days as a budding young professional broadcaster, and allowing us to go into our little annals here nooks and crannies of forgotten sports history. I think that's kind of why we do these shows is bit of an oral history about some of the people who were involved in in these franchises in these leagues in these sports that for whatever reasons are no longer with us. And if you have those memories and one reminisce or or perhaps learn about some some of the things. Perhaps you forgot or didn't know about or maybe you're just part of a new generation of sports fan and the economy just woke up and realized that there was a whole sorta sorta history behind maybe some of your favorite leagues or teams are or even beforehand, and that's kind of what we do these these silly little shows, and they're not that silly really if you get down to it. We just love learning and unearthing all kinds of interesting stuff, and and Bob carpenter certainly did not disappoint with some of those steamers memories and Tulsa, roughnecks NSL. And I it just just amazing stuff. You heard Bob allude to his amazing invention, frankly for anybody in the sports broadcasting business who doesn't know about this. Shame on you. And if you consider yourself, a a budding sports caster and need to sort of that sort of cheat sheet, shall we say to sort of help you up your game on the air. Or frankly, if you're a veteran broadcaster and just need a better way to sort of keep a handle on what's transpiring in front of you. So that you can do your best over. The airwaves, it's Bob carpenters. Baseball score puck and the address for that is BC scorebook dot com. It's B as in Bob C is in carpenter. Get a PC scorebook dot com as we can find out more information about Bob's a career as well. As the story behind the invention of the the go-to scorebook for anybody who considers themselves a appro in in pro baseball broadcasting and again, it's a b c scorebook dot com. And let's see I wanna say thank you, of course, to all of our great listeners. We appreciate all of your your input. Thank you for listening as always each and every week. Make sure you go to our website to find out more about the this show as well. As all the other shows that we've done and all that sort of links and all kinds of things to keep abreast of what's going on with this little wacky program. And that's good seats still available dot com at three gonna find all our social links like. At twitter. You'll find a set good seats, still Instagram. You'll find a good seats still available. There is a Facebook page devoted to our little show. You can check us out there. You can click to send us some E mail from our website. Of course, you could send that directly to us as well. That's Hello at good seats still available dot com. It is also the place to sign up for our weekly newsletter. If you wanna know, what episodes are coming out, and what kinds of things we got planned for you could sign up for that. They're to let's see what else. Oh. And by all means, please. Please. Please go and rate and review our show, if you wouldn't mind at apple itunes, apple podcast, whatever they're calling it this week anywhere, frankly that you can leave. We're rate the show or leave a review we we can't fake you enough for doing that. 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