4 Episode results for "Lorraina Gallo"
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The salt and really is my favorite and it is reminding me of being on vacation in Hawaii and it's a trip. I was actually supposed to go on so it gives me a little bit of that vacation. Feeling while I'm sitting at home get free shipping on all orders of fifty dollars or more. When you buy online I call DRE DOT com. That's L. D. R. E. A. Dot Com visit cordray add dot COM. And Find Your signature scent plus degree degree degree. I The I agree movies. First of all they get it wrong. They missed the big over. Tunji at tank about this crisis of domestic violence and sexual assault. They always wanted to talk about the sensationalistic and alluring detail. Details about me. Cutting off my ex-husband's penis off. So it's really sad that the media portray me as a crazy hot blooded Latina which is basically a race statement as well so I wanted to set the record straight that a lot of women who actually wanted to talk about the issues of domestic violence and sexual assault couldn't because their boss were men while the first degree that true crime. Podcast that you might end up on my name. Is Jack Panic. I'm sitting away from Alexis Link Ladder and father away from Billy Johnson. It is eleven. Am and Miss Alexis. What are you drinking? I'm drinking a Rosa and orange blood. Orange Soda Spitzer with blackberries in. It sounds delicious. It's called self care. It is called self care and you know I saw that. There was a study about all. This is a Sunday. We're not during working hours but there was a study done that I think. Forty percent of people are drinking during working hours. So this is just. This is our new normal. You guys that we've been living in forever and I just started. Yeah that's true and I start drinking just a slightly earlier than I used to. It used to be like seven now. It's four was. I won't do it in the morning. But four o'clock my See Mornings my ideal time to drink. But you know that's because you go to bed at six. Yes I know. Gives me a full full day to enjoy the festivities? But anyways billy what day is it today it has nothing to fear day. Oh that's yes interesting here but here itself. Yeah there's also it's also old time player Piano Day but I know that that would just bring on a lot of old jokes towards me You're you're projecting we were going to say you love. Pno's any other good days. No that's pretty much it. I think we're well Alexis says that's enough of that. So let's turn down the lights and turn on your anxiety because this could be The Story Lorena Bobbitt drew media attention in Nineteen ninety-three for being one of the most disturbing domestic dispute stories to ever hit the news. Lorraina was not the first woman to ever fight back against her husband and she wasn't the last but her story was one of the first to change the way the world perceived domestic abuse and sexual assault laurynas sent a chill down the spine of abusers from around the world. Because with that kind of a knife she wasn't only asking for things to change but she was screaming for it. Demanding it in the entire world hurt her. So today's case takes us back to June twenty third of nineteen ninety-three Bill Clinton was president. That's the way love goes by. Janet Jackson was on the Charts and the movie. Jurassic Park was the top at the movie theaters and the setting for today's case. Manassas town northern Virginia which acts as a bedroom community to Washington. Dc resign twenty five miles away from the suburban area and the place is rich in American history. And it was the site of two civil war battles battle bull run by a rower and two and re-enactors often depict those battles near the MANASSAS national battlefield. Park. It's quiet and for the most part. It floats under the radar as far as scandals are concerned but all of that was about to change between two and three. Am On the twenty third of June nineteen ninety-three calls between law enforcement officers started ping pong in between one. Another in the information that was being shared was shocking and confusing. There was a man at Prince George's hospital who's bleeding profusely. What happened? His penis had been cut off. Did it is wife her name. Lorena Bobbitt this is a narrative that many of you know but what many of you won't be familiar with is exactly how this happened. How did Lorena Bobbitt become arena bob it and beyond that? What variables and Seidel implications contributed to the Lorena bobbitt phenomenon? We're all familiar with while to answer that. We need to go back to the beginning. Lorena Gallo was born in Ecuador in nineteen sixty nine before eventually moving to Venezuela where she was raised and it was during her childhood. There that Lorraina fell in love with American culture and this notion of the American dream so she decided she wanted to move to the US. She visited America when she was sixteen and she was given the trip to come visit as a consumer goofed and she just fell in love with life. Here when Lorraina got here. She didn't speak a word of English and she learned by taking. Esl classes in watching soap operas and the price is right on TV whenever she cut. She was here on a student visa and she started taking classes at Northern Virginia community. College between taking classes she worked as a manicurist salon owned by woman named Johnny Basuki in fact Jan owned three salons and she took Lorena under her wing and they became fast friends. It was details told near Quantico that Lorraina was approached by a handsome marine lance corporal named John Wayne Bobbitt. John was from Niagara Falls when growing up. His father was not really in the picture. And there's a few of the sad details about John's childhood was that his father drank and beat his mother which caused a really volatile environment by h three John and his two brothers were taken away from his mother due to drug use and neglect and they were sent to live with an aunt and uncle when John was old enough he enlisted in the Marines which ultimately brought him to Virginia which then brought into this dance hall where he met Lorraine and Lorraine was and still is stunning and exotic when the two met apparently the attraction was undeniable in an interview for the Amazon Documentary Lorraina. She said I thought John was very handsome. Blue is a man in uniform you know. He was almost like a symbol a marine fighting for the country. I believed in this beautiful country. I was swept off my feet. I wanted my American dream so they started dating and things moved quickly in the pair got married nine months later in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. Their wedding small and performed by a justice of the peace and rain expected marital bliss to ensue. But that's not exactly what happened. So the domestic abuse started almost immediately and by ninety one John had been discharged from the marines and he found himself without a steady paycheck. And this prompted then twenty two year old. Lorraina to become the breadwinner of the family during this time. Lorraina worked as a nanny Virginia area and she continued to work at the beauty salon owned by her good friend. Janet and in this Amazon Series. Lorena said that one month after she and John remarried the to driving in the car and John started driving radically Lori and ask them to stop pleasing her hands on the steering wheel and trying to straighten out their route and it was in this moment that John allegedly punched her for the first time. And this wouldn't be the last time. More fighting ensued and escalated both called nine one one on each other but the violence continued and being the breadwinner. Lorraina felt immense pressure to provide for them to the point where she actually started embezzling money from the salon where she worked over. Seven thousand dollars and remember Jonah. The store owner who had become so close with the Raina. She realized what was going on. So she actually let Lorraina keep her job at the salon but made her payback the money with interest. You knew she was having these awful times at home but remember it's nineteen ninety-three it's Nassar's Virginia. Lorraina has newly arrived in this country. Relatively her family's not here and there were very little resources for her to turn to as far as getting out of her situation that time I didn't have the resources Like we have now for example cell phones the Internet so I couldn't really search for any resources. On there is no hotline. The violence against women's act was not was in diapers basically didn't really exist. It like I said women did not when I called it believes Did this catchers of the nine one. One didn't know how to help me. Because ending know how to handle The victims of domestic violence or the police either in a had to sleeping might call our many times shelters There's no shelters in my community. There was a one shelter that it was were homeless. There was no domestic violence shelters. Even now there's still one shelter and provide eighteen beds in my community of Almost a million people in my family was in. I'm from Ecuador in I grew up in Venezuela and so my family wasn't Venezuela I came from Venezuela and My family away from home was a very sweet nice family That took me in France of my family and a John did estimate may from them. I have no idea what was that of Alex. And little by little he also relate me from my friends in. There's no way that I I have. I can have phone calls. Because he got jealous. I didn't see the red flags of that. I didn't see those signs. You know When I met him was basically it was a nice guy. I mean he was very charming. I wasn't very young naive girl anyway. He was my first love so I wasn't sure what was going on with. This and Lorena was not only being abused. She was so isolated. Remember she didn't have any family in this country so she you know. Just think about that you you. It's your second language. You don't have any family in this country. You marry this guy that's supposed to be your dream guy and then he just starts beating you and you're also twenty two and you become the breadwinner to take on as time moved on. Things didn't get any easier. Lorraina and John's house went into foreclosure. It would break up and make up and rinse and repeat more turbulence Lorraine learned that she was pregnant and when asked later about this time John and Lorena tell different stories. How this exactly went down. According to Lorraina she was excited to start a family until on the news and he was less than thrilled to hear about it. She said that John Didn't think he was ready to be. Add threatened to leave if Lorraina wanted to keep the baby so Lorena didn't have anyone else in this country. She was in her early twenties and didn't want to raise a baby on her own understandably so according to John He'll arena agreed that it wasn't the right time for two of them to have a kid and they decided on an abortion together but she claims that John was the one who suggested she get the abortion or he'll leave so by June twenty second of nineteen ninety-three John and Lorena had been married for about four years. And it's on this day that the subject of separating and possibly divorcing had come up in conversation between the two. This conversation was heated and afterwards learning. What to the police station to ask whether or not she could get a protective order against John. The police said yes she could but they said it would take about three hours to process all the paperwork for the situation and for whatever reason Lorena didn't WanNa wait the three hours and then she left or was forced to leave and that same evening John had named Robert Johnson staying with them so John took his buddy out for some good old fashioned drinking. When John and Robert got back from the bars Robert went to his guest room and John got into bed and fell asleep and he was severely intoxicated. Then as Lorena tells it John Sexually assaulted her and forcibly raped her. After that Lorraina went to the kitchen to get some water in the kitchen she sees a knife sitting next to the kitchen sink and she picks it up. She goes back into the bedroom and then she slices. John's penis off and since John was so heavily intoxicated. He didn't really realize four. Feel or understand the gravity of what was going on and he certainly didn't understand. How severe or serious is in was until moments later? He laid in bed momentarily as blood started to pool on the sheets. And once he did realize lorraine had done he screamed. He woke up his friend. Robert in the two of them rushed to the hospital. And while this is happening laurynas speeding off in her. Nineteen ninety-one Mercury Capri as fast as she could and she told. Abc News and in Nineteen ninety-three interview that she was so distraught after she had named her husband that she wasn't even aware of the fact that she was holding the penis when she got into her car. And once this registered tour she throws it out of the car window and then drove over her friend Janice House genocide that when she saw Lorraina her door crying she believed that John Again had done something to hurt. Lorraina and Janna was well aware of his track record of abusing her so when Lorena told her that she had cut John's penis off Gina's mouth was on the floor sobbing. Lorena gave her a rough estimate as where the location was that she threw the penis out the window and it was in a field across the street from seven eleven within ten minutes of the incident John was at Prince William Hill and as he was being examined the doctors determined John had actually lost a third of his blood volume by this point so there were two things happening when he was in the Er. The doctors wanted to make sure John didn't die and they also wanted to reattach his penis but there was just one problem. They didn't have the penis and they didn't know where it was but the police were trying to remedy that now. The investigators were on board and they had learned where Lorraina had tossed the penis out while she was driving so they had a team of officers searching for it in just an aside. I was watching that Amazon Documentary Lorraina and they interview the doctor and when he was called is in the middle of the night he was on call and he was a urologist in had heard what happened. He was preparing to do a procedure that would whole his jury throughout and he was going to trim the rest of the penis so he would have to sit down like a woman. If they didn't find the peanuts that's what they would have had to do for him. Bright so that's what they were preparing go. You don't have it. I mean the clock is ticking. Appendages GonNa die if it's not sound right away and put on ice so everyone was freaking out that this guy might lose forever as billy said. The police were searching for it by that field at seven. Eleven because they had found out from Janet at that point where it like where Lorraina had thrown it in. The situation was looking grim because when the police got there this field was huge and there was really tall grass everywhere and they really doubted whether they would find this peanuts time for it to still be viable reattachment because back at the hospital. John was being prepped for emergency surgery and was starting to panic and freak out and lose hope that he would be penis less for the rest of his life but in a stroke of good luck or good detective work. The police found the dismembered penis. They ran into the seven eleven. They put on ice and they put it in a brown hotdog bag and ran into the hospital. Give the surgeons who would be working on. John was nearly six. Am when John was finally taken into the operating room for what would end up being a nine hour surgery so now the process of reattaching appeanas actually not that difficult. As far as reattaching appendages goes and I was shocked about this because it seems like it would be extremely difficult. The doctor who did it had never done before really yes so I thought that was fascinating because it is fingers are harder. I mean penises. Don't move on their own without blood rushing into them. You don't even fingers muscles so you're you're having to deal with a lot more nerves in your finger that need to re attach and be able to communicate with your brain to move. A peanut doesn't really need the same way. It just needs stimulation of blood can rush to it so it isn't the easiest. Probably the easiest of the appendages. According to the doctor who did it shocking. Okay so the penis is essentially made up of arteries veins nerves and then there's the urea threat and typically the way that the penis was severed in packs. How easy it is to repair. And if the cut is clean like it was in Bobbitt's case it's much easier to reconnect. So he was super lucky and when John Woke up from surgery. The doctors told him that they had successfully reattached his penis. Right and on the heels of what you said though so in cases where there have been cases where women are raped or assaulted. And if you bite Aquinas. Off Your odds of reattaching it are really low really limit for it's a mess and the bacteria just causes the appendage to be a lot less viable a lot more quickly so in those you hear you've heard about those cases they do on. They have on law and order. Svu All the time too. It's they have it in movies. You see that and in those situations you wouldn't be able to reattach the same way not with this kind of excess and while the surgery was a success and without complications they still move. John to the ICU. But not for reasons. You're probably thinking. They moved in there because the Washington Post had caught wind of the story so word was spreading. The media was already starting to swarm at the hospital. Lorraina was arrested that evening and by then. The story was everywhere. She was facing charges of malicious wounding. And looking at up to twenty years in prison if convicted and you can you can see that this would happen just having worked in it in newspapers. You have sources. It's not even just sources you have sources at at the hospitals. If you hear that somebody's penis was cut off. That is going to travel throughout the hospital. Somebody before social media. Somebody's going to call their friend who works with The newspaper it's going to happen no matter what so. You don't need social media for something like this to happen or cell phones. What we what we were talking about the top of the episode. Where win the initial calls came in about this? And we said the information was confused so the dispatchers were actually speaking trying to avoid the term. They kept saying he's been maimed. Here's an appendage. Because they didn't want to say it because obviously journalist listens to listen to police radios so and they knew that in the interview the dispatcher. And she's like I was trying not to be too explicit because I knew they would cling to this like. You just said billy where it's like. Oh a good juicy domestic husband wife you FEM fatale story and they knew that we're all familiar with Lorraina BOBBITT's name. Have we ever really thought about why? Why almost thirty years later we know about this case in why we're still talking about it when no one died. The stakes are lower compared to other crimes that have drawn this kind of media attention so John's penis was reattached in was functional again. He's still got peanuts. It's not even like he was permanently maimed. I think it's because draw to this story was not about the tangible elements of what happened. It was about the message. Is and Halloween. Is Actions challenged the status quo especially in a place like Virginia? Laurynas actions demand attention and demanded progress. It was sort of a rebellion against the tolerance of domestic violence. I think is a combination of everything I mean. First of all Yeah a lot of the nature of the case People were infatuated on to turn on the TV CAMERAS. Were not that was the first time the AMAS were allowed in the courtroom and they were actually doing an experiment to to bring core cases in two living rooms of homes in America. You know and so when Mike case happened court. Tv was baby. You know like the they actually had. It was a gift for them. My case it. They were very excited and in all they wanted to do the ratings. Where up The salacious stories came up and people were actually infatuated about that. There was a combination of everything was Immigra- Aman Amy Grant And there's a lot of issues about immigrant women Immigrant women so far allowed because they don't call the police. Um so you know the support the the way how. The media treated me As a hub light bloody Latina. That was an issue of racism so people wearing to you know those kind of issues so it was a combination of everything a and also. I think you know man feel vulnerable because I threatened. I caught my ex-husband masculinity and they believe that must be there they're peanuts was or is everything and you know so. They felt threatened. That may be an mendacity. Why they turned into joke to neutralize This kind of situation that was. There's no way they couldn't believe something like is such thing happen so laurine was charged with militias wounding immediately but once. Lorena side of the story leaked to the press. Women's group made themselves heard. They were outraged that John Wasn't facing charges rightfully so but charging John had some difficult implications. And here's why so at the time in Virginia and about fifty percent of the other states. In America there were pretty archaic laws as far as Spousal rape is concerned in Virginia. If you were to be convicted of spousal rape you'd be facing a possible life. Sentence and qualifying for these charges was really difficult. In order for the charges to apply the two spouses would need to be separated. When the sexual assault occurred and another contingency was the assault would have needed to result in permanent bodily damage. So if you break this down and meant that even if the couple is separated and the husband raped his wife if he managed to do it without permanently naming her he wouldn't qualify for this charge at all so instead John was charged with marital sexual abuse which carried a possible. Twenty year sentence instead of the Max of life that applied in the spousal rape charges. John and Lorena. We're going to have separate trials and the questions that were asked in each this. Is He a habitual batterer? Who forced a young woman over the edge or was she this calculated hot blooded Latina? Who wanted to hurt her husband when he threatened to leave her and just fabricated this rape to justify it in a lot of people man mostly feel very compassionate just for then made her own. The case You know he lost his Male or so absolutely. The country was divided into two women were supported of me and especially you know advocates and activists feminist groups etc Inches Women Gentlemen in general In men were with him so I was the one who basically was the gains man or there were portraying me that weight so that was a gender inequality basically and still I think that You know we still even a patriarchal society. John's trial commenced in November of nineteen ninety-three in the court determined that his case had a quote unquote sexual component. So this meant that the news networks needed permission to film and air the trial national TV from the defense and from John and of course. John's defense declined so John's whole thing was he wanted his dignity intact. He didn't feel he should have to testify in front of the world things like that. They did not know how to charge Tam basically so they ended up charging ham for a marital rape but They do not charge him with domestic violence and Know he's Trial less three days and Might try lasted twelve days so I was unfortunately that we couldn't even talk about domestic violence on his trial during the proceedings. The jury was instructed to consider the night in question in they could only also consider what went on in John and Lorraine is relationship within the five days prior to the incident which is very restricting. If you're trying to prove a pattern of abuse in fact it basically sabotages her defense entirely in. This was because of the laws in Virginia. At the time which should not look favorably upon sexual assault victims prosecutors grill arena about these five days on the stand in one instance. Lorena testified that John Marshall to have sex one day but then stated that she consented to sex the following so the prosecutor essentially mocked and berated. Her in a tone that suggested she was lying. How could a woman consent one day and be raped the next while laurynas responses? Sometimes she just gave in and said yes because he was just going to do it anyway and like we know sexual assaults and abuse with a marriage is not so black and white is just not you can love your husband one day and he can hurt you the next and that's not a woman's fault you know more. Ns situation where. She's obviously scared of her partner. I mean her saying yes and giving in those times doesn't mean like she's scared and she's being forced into it some of those times as well so it's just it is very gray and it's hard to prove either way of course domestic abuse victims feel. They're always hoping that their their partner will go back to the person. They met outlines exactly so if if their husband occasionally shows like glimpse of love or shows a glimpse of how wasn't the beginning a woman will get excited and cling to that like maybe things are changing now so of course it makes sense. She can consent one day and not the next. It's just a ridiculous thing to presser on. It is a crazy world that we live in and it seems like overnight. Technology has just exploded. Everything is being done online meetings school. You name it. They're doing it but unfortunately one thing has stayed the same in that is coloring your hair so you only have a couple options really. You can go to a traditional salon and spend lots of time and money or grab a box of hair-color from a drugstore which always dries her hair out and makes it break off or you could do the new way. Madison read it. Took a very very strong independent thinking woman to shake up the hair coloring world in Amy Eric Digest that with Madison. Reed the company. 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And what we have to remember about this. Entire trial is that we're talking about consensual sex versus forced rape. It's a he said she said kind of thing. And there isn't always evidence as about credibility and remember this is the Nineteen Ninety S. We're in a super conservative. Courtroom Lorraina is an immigrant from Central America and English as our second language. Oh and she's a woman and we're GONNA stay were to be indicted for spousal rape someone has to have caused permanent disfigurement and or maiming. The victim there wasn't much confidence that John was going to be found guilty and he wasn't. He was acquitted so a and he ended up being acquitted. I think the outcome would have been different. If we were even now we would talk about his trial now Sir. I I believe that he would being convicted. So a Lotta things have changed but You know little by little. We seem to step in the make. Ten steps in the right direction and But still a lot more much more work needs to be done. Even though cameras weren't allowed in the courtroom John's trial got a lot of coverage but it was nothing compared to that of his trial. This case had all the trappings of what we've seen at spectacles such as the Ted Bundy execution or the OJ. Trial people were selling t shirts. One shirt said MANASSAS. Va a cut above the rest and then they were boxer shorts that were sold that said. Vanessa's Va. Don't cut me short. Remember it's the ninety s and everyone in America was having a honeymoon period with outlets like court. Tv and it really was the precursor to reality TV when you think about it the characters in this trial they were a tabloid dream. And this time the world would get to watch every second of what was playing right so remember during John's trial. His case was determined to have sexual components therefore he has lawyers were given the choice about having the proceedings televised. You know to protect his privacy his dignity and for whatever reason Lorraina was not extended that same courtesy they concluded that Laurynas case was not a case with a sexual component. Even though the case was about Lorraina cutting off a sexual organ in response to being raped by her partner so in opinion. Personally I interpret this to mean that the political powers-that-be Manassas at the time didn't really care to preserve her dignity they wanted to publicly condemn. Lorraina and make an example out of her abuse victims. CaN'T RETALIATE. That's the message they're sending here and we're going to put this on display for the world to see first of all they get it wrong. They missed the big opportunity to talk about this crisis of domestic violence and sexual assault. They always wanted to talk about sensationalistic and alluring. Details details about me cutting off my ex-husband's peanut saw so it's really sad that the media portray me as a crazy hug bloody Latina which is basically raisin statement as well so I wanted to set the record straight that a lot of women who actually wanted to talk about the issues of domestic violence and sexual assault couldn't because the boss where men so Lorena trial started on January tenth nineteen ninety four when she pulled up in her car to enter the courtroom. There was a barrage of flashbulbs. A mob of more than two hundred reporters from around the world journalists as far as Japan had flown in. For this case there are more than twenty satellite trucks that lined up the streets. The atmosphere at the courthouse was extremely tense. According to a Newsweek poll that was conducted at the time it said sixty percent of the country was planning to watch this trial unfold so it was a huge huge deal and the stakes were high for Lorraina. She was facing twenty years from maliciously wounding John. But what a lot of people don't know is that prior to the trial the prosecution had offered. Lorena a plea deal. They said that if she admitted to the fact of cutting John's peanuts was a premeditated action. She would only get four months in jail and probation Lorena refused. She wasn't going to admit to something that wasn't true and also if she pleaded guilty to a felony she more than likely would never get an American citizenship and this is just something that she didn't want to risk giving up so imagine the stress and pressure of this whole situation lorraine at this time was only twenty four years old. And that's ten years younger than Alexis and I and I think that we forget how young she was at the time. All this happened. It's intense and when you see the old footage of the trial coverage you see her being pulled up in a car in the back and she just looks devastated to be in the middle of this it. It really is sad and another thing. That's sad is there is obviously media bias as well because so many of these details about this abuse was not and is not commonly known. I mean the whole world was watching my trial. I mean literally. So I'm I was very recognizable because a lot of there there were More of the devices like I said there who were in journalism where men so. The opportunity was not only lost in this hails of the. Know Elson session enlisted story but it was actually lost because the patch we are society there was among the male reporters of mailboxes. Who were in their twenty. Four seven cycle media cycle opening arguments commenced. We have is rain. Violence Lights just opposed against John. Wayne Bobbitt Penis. The evidence will show that it was his penis from which she could not escape which caused through the pain. The most fear humiliation submit to you that the case you will come to one conclusion and that is valuable feeds now. Luckily in mistrial the jury would in could hear everything about Lorraina and John's relationship in Lorena was not restricted to talking about just the five days of their relationship that happened prior to the incident. She could talk about the abuse that started from day. One and she did. He kicked me. He told me that I told you to not cry. And he slapped me on my faith people my hair in my face down. Yes he he about an animal the ask you. Because witnesses recalled in their testimony really supported Lorraine his version of events and the testimony was very disturbing and remember. These are friends of John's. It's not like these are Lorraine's friends testifying that they heard this friends of John's said the John had told them that he loved for sodomy that he laughed about making women bleed during sex. That forced sex excited him. If these are John's friends why would they say this? If this wasn't true others said they'd seen Lorraina with bruising on her face on her arms on her legs neighbors saw her makeup on her face in trying to hide bruises and they would see John Forcing Lorraina to carry heavy things as he walked behind her casually. He told friends that he liked to rape lorraina explicitly in Lorraine is friends and people knew. Lorraina testified as well. Women's defensive brooding over the top and cards and the girl into her hairline and fame flying inbound her neck shoulders before I not however notice that all the rest of your body before depression was very noted to sadness was very noticeable in casually. When she was doing my now she burst into tears. There's testimony that detailed how there are tests conducted on Lorena the day of the incident and these tests confirm that Laurean did have sex or she had been raped before she cut off John's penis however John completely denied having any sexual contact with Lorraine at all that day even though there was proof that he was lying and in fact John Story about how things unfolded change several times and disdained his credibility to some of the most compelling testimony came from a neighbor of Lorraina. John. Heard things that night people having sex. These weren't the thing. How did they differed? They differed a lot of time other than headboard the wall. It would bid me. This woman was having screaming. I mean she would scream out every second and then into continues he trunk. He wanted to have sex. She didn't that's her right. Force turn have sex. She was angry. She retaliated against. But you know we don't live in a society that is governed by revenge. We don't live in a society in which whoever has the biggest nice it was probably one of the most bizarre accidents happen. This could forget a Lo long term. Everything about this case. It is so unique what she did going out of that house. With a Gameboy. A PENIS IN THE HAND. Everything about this case is praising bazaar versus a classic severe resistible impulse after the last witnesses were called. An eastside made their closing arguments. The jury was sent into deliberation and the world was on the edge of their seat waiting for this verdict. Jerry having been converted beginning in the Congo Virginia. Lorraine out in the Norfolk criminal number. Three three eight to one we. The jury find the defendant Lorraina Father not guilty polishes wounding as charged in the indictment by reason of insanity signed play at Cacao for for me becoming richer jury report. They didn't general the jury. Let me thank you for the time and effort you put into this matter. And he's taken to this time. I'll have all parties to remain in the courtroom and be quiet and what a lot of people don't realize don't remember is that Lorena Bobbitt was actually found not guilty and she was found not guilty due to insanity causing an irresistible impulse to sexually wound John so as a result of that she could not be held liable for her actions. Yes that is correct. I was fine no guilty. I don't have any criminal records and A lot of people think you know I went to jail or went to prison for a long time or you know what happened. Really so We actually we both file out not guilty. Hey stew over. He was accused of marital rape. The most interesting thing about this is that I didn't know she was found not guilty. I didn't just from from everything I heard again me. Jack were too young for this to understand and and watch the trial but I had no idea just because what you hear about her. The jokes that are made the the assumption is that she was found guilty in. Probably got in trouble for this. But that's not actually true rape raid. It doesn't matter it's a crime in victim the victim so whether he's a women or is child you know to get a sexual assaulter. Why Dave Make Fun of of me? Why fate make fun of Omega songs about about it and and take it you know but that is the culture. There will event people were uneducated about domestic violence at the time now. There is awareness more people more advocates educating our society and that is great seat so after the trial the media obsession with John and Lorena didn't taper off. That's because from one side. There was an uproar over. Lorraine his acquittal and there was also resounding support for her acquittal on the other side. Women's groups from around the world saw this as progress if immigrant woman from Central America can be acquitted for castrating her white husband after she was sexually assaulted after a relationship of abuse in small towns Virginia. Then maybe this meant things. Were changing celebrities. Politicians from all over the world were weighing in. Everyone had an opinion and it showed up and a lot of places in pop. Culture was actually the cold open of the January Fifteenth Nineteen ninety-four episode of Saturday. Night live with Mike Myers playing John Wayne Bobbitt on the witness stand before another pop culture criminal Tonya. Harding comes by and beats his crotch repeatedly with a bat and the media coverage continued but there was only one of them who is stoking. The fire under Virginia Law a contingency of his acquittal was that since she was declared insane during that brief time period when the incident occurred she needed to undergo a psych evaluation and she was sent to a mental hospital for forty five days after those forty five days. Were up the core and her doctors reevaluated. Her mental state and they ultimately decided that she was no harm to herself or to others and she was released and while this is all happening. John was making the rounds on the talk show circuit. He was a guest on radio shows and TV segments and then six months later he made a really bold move right so after the trial John moved to Las Vegas in there. He met porn legend. Ron Jeremy Clearly. Ron must have inspired him in some unique way because six months after the trial John starred in an adult. Some John Wayne Bobbitt uncut during interview with Vanity Fair. John explained of the adult film quote. A porno seemed like the best way to show. My Penis worked only wasn't all the way healed yet. I realize now that was the point. I really think it's worth discussing that John Bobbitt following the trial just did the mainly things publicly. He Whitney moved to a ranch and he was like a cowboy and he was like. Latte last swing cattle and doing interviews dressed as a cowboy. We get on your penis works. Well we did it and you know we will talk about this in killing time. About men just being blubbering idiot. Sometimes but it's like his manhood was literally cut off his body so for him. That's probably the biggest nightmare a man so it's like I'm GonNa do a porn and show. It still works and having to go get a horse in. I'm going to go women in a pornography film in. It's like to show that I'm still a man exactly. Yeah on the nose. John Bob too on the nose house. Now we've been more subtle like build a house shirtless or like building a house. Well and the thing. He didn't have a job either right so he probably was feeling quite emasculated for a while to maybe go go get a career. Put on a suit something. Get a nice pair of dress shoes. But he was also showing his true colors because shortly before the release of his porn John was charged with misdemeanor domestic battery against his new girlfriend. Kristina Elliott these charges for the supported. Lorraina side of the story. He served twelve days of fifteen day sentence but that negative press didn't sway John from still seeking the spotlight and trying to prove how much of a man he was. He made a second porn franken penis which made his debut in one thousand nine hundred eighty six now. Why would John do another porn? The world need to John. Bobbitt sex tapes probably not but John had agreed to do it after accepting an offer from Howard. Stern for reconstructive plastic surgery for his penis to enlarge it even further and he was not going to be turning that down gross. So Howard Stern talked about the case frequently on a show and he had John Bobbitt on his a guest in nineteen ninety-three for his New Year's Eve special and they raised two hundred fifty thousand dollars to help cover the outstanding costs surgery and in one interview Howard was quoted as saying and this is one of the most disgusting quotes. I've ever heard quote. I don't even by this whole story that he was raping her. She's not that great looking disgusting. It's it really is like one of the most enraging comments that I've probably ever heard my entire life but aside from all this like Howard stern trash. There was also a handful of incidents of copycat crimes after the situation and they're called Baba Mania and it was after the incident. Most of them were self inflicted wounds but it was a whole thing. That was happening. And there is also the bobbit worm which was a worm that taxes to pray with scissor like jaws and this is named after the case as well. So there's all this pop no it's an actual worm like a real worm that a real worm identify words of worm. Bobbitt's were bobbit worm. Come on signed his stoop better than that to better. That's crazy. No the you know the person that named it to probably like I got it. I'm so clever. Flimsy was probably a man so so eventually the media coverage of the Bobby did taper off but the pop culture implications were there to stay and while no doubt lorraina experienced great difficulty during this period in her life she managed to turn this entire thing into something positive and find a silver lining. So it's been Basically almost thirty years three thickets has passed since it happened. There was a documentary air last year about my story. The documentary that Lorraina is referring to is the Amazon Docu series. Lorena a now by doing a lifetime movie so I think it is important to keep the issue of domestic violence and sexual violence It is an incredible platform to be able to do show the stories in a visual way like visual people have to visualize sometimes to say listen. I wanted to show this. I wanted to be transparent. I wanted to be very raw when I talk about it. And just as exactly what I? I've made this the stories. I wanted to people to look at in. This is this is real. This is what happened. This is real life and so I want people to connect with my story because there's a lot of women trapping situation so domestic violence. Did they don't know what to do? And I want to to see my movie to basically inspiring to get away from from this of Yousef situation to their leave. They are in a relationship. There is an incredible platform. I think is not only an incredible platform. It is Keisha as well for future generations do know the this critical issues do exist still now in. These discussions are particularly timely. Given what's happening in the current state of the world especially now with a winning the unfortunate result so coronavirus or cold at night teen Is is really affecting the rice domestic violence and sexual violence cases among women So many women feel that they're trapped in their homes with their abusers so as as survivor of domestic violence. I understand at first hand about the issues and I want to help the victims and I wanted to do provide by providing resources and in guidance. Oh my story is relatable In so many levels especially now like I said so. It's very important to to have this Communications about this critical issues open. Lorraina took back her maiden name Lorraina Gallo. She resumed working in salons and she quietly started dating a man named David. And she's still with David to this day more than twenty years later and they eventually had a daughter named Olivia. I found that people were my friends. Were very supportive. My community was Yeah I mean they recognize me. I never move out of my community. Because if I move I will be recognized everywhere You didn't affect my career. Thank God I was idea real estate for a while I was the I went back to the beauty industry as A. I went to school than I have my license as a hair style and I did hair for leaving for a while and then I went to school and school. Obviously a lot of people recognize me Just based on my face away I going to change myself so I learned to accept the fact that I did not choose to be in the spotlight Right now and the fact that but I stopped myself was very strengthened. Was One of my My strength they kept me through who I am and those pass a might lives. My my trauma actually have helped shape the person that I am today and you know he have actually understand the give me a platform to help others so When I met my partner obviously he knew who I was and so friendship. Friendship turning to respect and respect turning to love and you know. That's that's how he was. I didn't experience with my with John. In Two Thousand Seven Lorraina started a nonprofit called the Lorena Gallo Foundation which is an organization focused on helping to prevent domestic violence through family oriented activities and more years past awareness and condemnation of domestic violence increased as women started pushing back for their rights. The view of Lorraina also shifted and the more time passed the more. It was clear how terrible Lorraina was treated not only by John but by the rest of the world to they have grown more in but this generation will you know memory. I mean I'm talking to you. Your were problem not even born. I Dunno you've you look very young Thanks Lorena. So you know the time that We talking about almost thirty years so I think that the new generation has grown to be more empathetic more sympathetic about the stories and more curious and you know more women into rice. I mean we have more politician women in Congress so the hell lot and to shape the narrative about abuse women and As important I know when my store is and I was looking to get approach by Amazon Last year and They did a very good job. I'm happy with Doku serious Jordan Peele was wonderful his his a man who has a lot of social issues so I trusted him and the whole team of Amazon by then Same thing with a lifetime. Lifetime is an amazing network and day history of telling stories. They're relate to two people and they're very three. The story is the real stories with sensitivity. I think that that is actually Got My passion back to to even tell even more than I know that there are going to treat my story with sensitivity and respect in the lifetime project that Llerena is referring to is called. I was Lorena Bobbitt. And it premiered on Memorial Day two days ago on the lifetime network. I'm doing good. I'm doing fine. I I am happy blaze. I am in a better place I don't leave you know in the past I think the past did have helped me to save the person that I am today and have given me a platform to be able to help other women and You know anybody who is in an abusive relationship so is Is Good is good. Now we're going to keep my mission to help. Victims of domestic violence survivors because survivors. Also have ATS st and they need assistance as well. I will super super big thank you to Lorraine for sharing her story with us If you have a story to tall please email us. Hello. At the first degree. Podcast DOT COM can follow us on instagram. At the first degree out Alexis linkletter Johnson. Jack Vanik join our facebook page. Just search the first degree in the search bar and stick around. Because we're GONNA kill some time. Remember only you can prevent zero killers and keep your friends close. No it wasn't happy. Bob's type socks sources for today's episode include ABC Vanity Fair Amazon's Documentary Series Lorraina Rolling Stone Court Documents Court footage and Zoe's. Our first degree interview is always our largest source. It's here and I'd like to talk to you about sweat. Did you know that many conventional deodorants contain aluminum? Which forms plug in your sweat? Glands to keep from sweating YIKES NATIVES DEODORANT. His made without aluminum. So you can feel better about what you're putting on your body and it works making the switch suit aluminum radio nor does not mean you have to sacrifice on performance over ten cents including their classics and rotating seasonals. You're guaranteed to find one. You love got coconut vanilla. Lavender and rose cucumber mint. And the one that I'm wearing right now citrus and Moscow so if you WANNA try it out because it's pretty fantastic goto native deodorant dot COM. And you can get twenty percent off your first purchase using the Promo Code degree. That's twenty percent off your first purchase visit native Deodorant Dot Com and use the Promo code degree. Though were apart these days were sharing more and GYCO would just like to say thanks. Thanks for sharing. Your savage dance moves. Thanks for sharing your diy fails thanks for sharing your inner lip sync star now. It's GEICO's turned to share to with the GEICO. Give back a fifty percent credit on car and motorcycle policies for current new customers. And because GEICO's committed for the long haul. The fifteen percent credit lasts your full policy term visit GEICO DOT com slash give back for Info and eligibility learn more about GEICO's fifteen percent credit on car and motorcycle policies at Geiko dot com slash. Give back you know what I'm not a high school girl so sh- run for the hills. Those who says going out partying in a club. You can't find love. It's the Spidey podcast with Spencer in Heidi Pratt. Hello I'm not dead. If you and your husband go out every night good for you. Hey that was a joke. If you're an idiot beds you spoiled Brat. Your life is a basic new episodes every Monday on spotify podcast one and apple podcasts. Don't worry mom I got you. Alright well welcome to another episode of killing time. I thought Alexis just sent me an email. That said best friends. Hello but it was an email about best scenes and she got confused and excited by mine. Spontaneous love for her I did. I thought you're just reminding me. As we started to record that we are best friends. And that because Alexis gets nervous about this like social distancing thing that she can't touch people and she thinks that means that people are mad at her because people aren't hugging me goodbye. Or hello and I feel like this weird distance and any social distancing. I'm like when I leave. Rena fight or are we good. I just feel like everyone's mad at everyone. The love is not all right later by. Yeah feels like a dude like fist-bump bump and I'm not even you know air. Fist-bump is not enough affection for me as your love. Language Physical Touch. Yeah and words of valid words of affirmation affirmation gifts all of them by all the love languages to feel a little bit about myself. That's that's what I think too. When you know I think about my love. Language is are the mall. I don't know Sir. Yes yes `formation. Keleti time. Hello touch absolutely all of them. I love lingual. What about you billy. What's your love language just to be left alone as Dystonia true isolation? Billy's love language. So I'm feeling the love all over the place this with this pandemic Bl- you know it was so funny is jared and I did an episode of the Lady Yang and one of my questions was was the sweetest thing that either both of us have done for each other and his answer was that I leave him alone loud one number one. This is a lie because all he wants to do is like smother me with affection all the time. But I'm like this is a very interesting answer that you like to be left alone. And that's the nicest thing I've ever done for you. I love that. Savage response think he was just flexing on your love episode in a in a guy he probably sorry love. You is that okay. Afterwards he said that he thought about it for weeks on end and he he's like it was the wrong answer. I didn't mean it but the way he said it was very sweet. Where it's like. We're allowed to be independent and have her own time and be able to like wind down our own but he was a good didn't mean it. I love when you smother me. I need it all the time. Oh my God jared. I love that and also I love the dumb guy that you guys just did good. I do it about me grammatical error. I'm like oh I'm sorry. Is My eighteen hours of work not good enough for you. I've forgotten apostrophe is writer. That's that's dumb guy voiced but all guys are dumped is. I don't care how billy I know that you're like a borderline genius but you're still a dumb guy. Wait a second pay that kind of Shit. Be hearing about that for weeks. I call them stupid. He'll be like no. Jack said it was a borderline genius. Russia. What's your cue have you taken an Iq test sixty eight like that? Was Your Voice that great? That's the new voice. The deeper the dumber though. Yeah not no no no. That's the sound and I see men walking. That's the sound. They all know episode of Family Guy. When I think it's Stuey is like playing the trombone in back of people walking. That's pretty much how I see. Every man they're all just a level of it just doesn't you're all you're all there but what level. Reo Thank you well. It's not the reason for this. I was GONNA say quickey. I'm on the wrong podcast. The reason for this episode of killing time is billion. I both have books that are coming out next Tuesday. Billy's the paperback version of Chase Darkness. With me and mine. Is Our debut Book Lady Gang Called Act like a lady and it's weird that they're both coming out on the same day it is we would we would have been able to do a joint some tour or something like that and the books are so similar to so? I mean if you have one you'll love the other explain like it's different than the first one. My Book has. It's the same thing as the first one. But it's got a brand new bonus chapter about bear brook and how that mystery. Three three quarters of that mystery was solved and then a bunch of updates on other cases and it also has eight pages of exhilarating photos including me in my punk face. Exhilarating lanes last goth phase. Yes I call her they block and white. They're black white break. Come on we got to have two colors our book and Got Fund Say Jack. What is your favorite part of the Book Well yeah I mean so. It's separated into four parts so it's like your relationship with your lover which I hate that word lever self career and friends. It was obviously the most fun for me to write about love because most of those stories were just like my dating escapades that you know so much about Alexis and you also have so many stories so maybe one day we need to make a true crime. Slash like intervene personal. We have him because we have together. We have the craziest freaking stories in the entire world of dating in this Hellhole of Los Angeles but so I think that part of the book is my favorite. I'm GonNa make jared read the section about. It's basically a list of all the men that I dated and they all have nicknames like there's Mattress Mike who slept with his mattress on the ground which you have also dated one is well a few of those and what about the street performer. The street performer is in there. The A mime. So no have I dated am I am? I can't remember no these your friend Kendra is terrified of. She wouldn't have allowed that terrified of mimes know. This guy was A. He was a street performer and then he would make up all these different ways that he would know the superheroes I have. I have an entire chapter about this guy. That dress opposes Superhero on Hollywood boulevard. That's a whole chapter but the street performer guy. He performed all these plays in public bathrooms and then he would like sell his he would give his script for free so then they could also perform them in other public bathrooms so I was hot. Yeah and then. Also there's guy. There's a guy named Chad that you dated. Is the last guy that I dated before. Jared my current boyfriend and Chad still has cornhole boards because I went over to his apartment who he also lives. I live in Marina del Rey. He lives literally like two buildings over from me. I went over there. I brought my cornhole boards. We played Corn Hall. And they're still over there. And and the jared flexes here GonNa make some with my with my prayer ans- so I now you know it's a really. It's a step up dating. Jared Goff cornhole boards in your apartment. And that's why you've left them over there. I did leave. That is true. I've heard them and they were really shitty. Cheap cornhole board. I'm like you know you can you can take. I hope they also had a role. They also spiders all over them so it was just a had to get rid of him somehow but no. When I started dating jared his entire band I talked about shot a few times. We're hanging out and his entire band would not let him live down shad. What was the shad connection? Look what is the funny thing about shad? I don't remember his name right. Yeah it's a weird name. It was just. He's such I mean. Chad is the worst name that you can have as a man really like the Douche Baggy name and then you put it on the front of that Shad ooh shot is just a worst worst version of Chad. Yeah just like Shitty. It is worst version an idiot. Exactly just put outs on the front of something and it makes it like a million times more do she. She'll Alexis say show last shabbily. My name better shock. Kids solid. Yeah that should be your new nickname. Jackie chiles not bad silly at least perfect. I think we need an S. H. In front of everything though she'll lexus chalets pretty solid. It makes you sound like a you. Know what that's on. Shank THE SHANK. That's even better than than the. Shank is like will you? Yeah I'll thank you in a second. You see that grow over there. She's the Shank what's worse what's scarier the Shankar the tank the Shank. I actually think tank scarier you could see tank comments. Shank you know right right in the arteries a razor blade connected to toothbrush. But I I think I think the Shank is you know. I don't know it's too literal where it's like you know what the Shank means but the tank business ambiguous. You don't know what's coming you don't know when it hits you you know gun strapped to that thing. No one's sure how many men are in there. How many women are in there and he dogs in there. Who's to say? Oh who's to say? Are you going to get the Tattoo and a my drawing it for you? I don't know I have to talk to my parents my in that facebook group. And they've all like I've had a lot of backlash about this. Dodd commented. Yeah. I'm like okay great. I should probably remove them from the group which I will do and then we'll discuss it. If but I'm thinking probably WanNa get it if you do I would love to Dri- I have drawn a few tattoos before by a few. I mean one but this could be my second listen. You're drawing if it's happening. He'll be like our tattoos. Since you won't get one I'll have it by the plastics billie anything I would. I would like to try it. Actually can you draw not not a bit not at all solid but thanks billy what? Tattoo of yours and mine drawing. Because this is how this is how we're going to be bonded for I don't know what at Giraffe Giraffe. Yeah just sort of tall tall Taraf type person. I'm Co you're like a green or a stork stuck free or like a buzzard. A tall buzzer. Yeah like I put a dark clean without rain long neck. Actually think this is fun. What animals are we built a crane? Billy's definitely a crane. I mean I. I've been told more my whole life that I'm a monkey like my parents called me a monkey 'cause I would just like climb all over them. And then now. This is transferred also into jared. So that's what I've been told. Yes but you look more like you know what it is like a a sloth like a apathetic hospital still climbing and hang but you're pretty chill like my not knowing you know what I okay. I'll take slot. I learned about slots is their default Hand setting is closed and then they have to work to open. It says the opposite from people. So that's why they can cling onto trees for so long because it's easy because that's just their normal muscles and like a closed sloth lobby cute. Yeah well they have to go against gravity so that makes sense that like they're young practice shut instead of Ben. What animal obviously Something that's like really pretty but then really vicious Geese or swan at the Hollywood forever cemetery and I always feeding swans and I would feed them like Oh they like me. I would stop. They start hissing at you. I'm like yeah. I can be a Swan Day are terrifying vicious vicious vicious vicious geezer. So mean goose. Swans are pretty mean to so. I'M ONE OF THOSE. Mom got attacked by a goose traumatized for the rest of your life. It was terrifying scary there so scary. I avoid them like the plague if I if I see one of the geese though the geese will actually come up to you and want like. Hey what do you got? What do you got the swans? We'll just come up to you but stay stay like probably six feet apart and this be like you know what say and then this year. Whatever but they're not going to be like pestering you because they're like look at how pretty I am. Give me something with your goose I guess I'd really like to be Swan but whatever no I think it's interesting that geese hiss like cats. It's so weird. I mean. Swans off to do that knew the hissed mentally. Look this up. Yeah we'll revisit this though next time. Let's call it time. Death Fourteen fifty seven a quack.
Lorena (Bobbit) Gallo Interview
"The hi I'm Jamie host of murderous a true crime. Podcast that provides a three d look at gripping murder cases from beginning to end. You'll get to know the victims and perpetrators how their worlds collided and what went down during trial. I also share some of my own personal experiences like the time. A stranger came into my bedroom at night. Yeah that really happened and I walk you through all the details of that terrifying night. Have you ever wanted to be a fly on the wall during a murder trial? You'll get that opportunity on murderer which as I share my experience being jury foreman on a first degree murder trial search murderous in your favorite podcast pit. Subscribe and start bingeing and remember listening to this. Podcast doesn't make you a murderer. It just means you're murder ish. This podcast may contain content. That is graphic and disturbing in nature. Listener discretion is advised in nineteen ninety-three after years of alleged physical and sexual abuse. Lorena Bobbitt cut off her husband John's penis with a knife while he was sleeping in bed. The case Made International News and tabloid headlines. A story so scandalous it became the inspiration for many snl skits and late night monologues. After making it through the trial and the ensuing media circus Lorraina was found not guilty due to temporary insanity today. Lorena is a staunch advocate for survivors of domestic violence and served as an executive producer and narrator for the soon to be released lifetime film. I was Lorena Bobbitt. This is episode. Seventeen Lorena Bobbitt Gallo interview Row Hi Meghan. Hi Amy how are you today? I'm wonderful were you. I'm good as can be which is great. I'm excited because today we have a special show our listeners. Recently we were contacted with an opportunity to interview Lorena Bobbitt. Gallo you Lorena Bobbitt is. Don't you Meghan I certainly do and I share your enthusiasm. Today is not our typical story format but we really felt like the themes touched on in this case fit so well with what we're trying to do with women and crime showing crime through the Gender Lens showing victims and offenders that we just really couldn't pass up this opportunity today we have three interviews to share with you the first two are with the lead actors Luke Humphrey and Danny Montalvo from the new lifetime. Film I was Lorena Bobbitt which was actually produced by Lorraine A- and then we will also get to hear from Lorraina herself for those of US old enough to remember such as me and you Meghan. This was an unforgettable case for some of our younger audience members. We wanted to give you a brief overview before we get to the interviews. Llerena was born in Ecuador in nineteen. Sixty-nine and she grew up in Venezuela and had two younger siblings at the age of eighteen. She obtained a student Visa and Move Virginia to attend community college to earn money. She worked as a nanny and she also took a later position at Anelle Salon. Shortly after moving to Virginia she met John Bobbitt then a US Marine at a club for enlisted men and they began dating shortly after the pair were married on June eighteenth. Nineteen thousand nine when Lorraina was twenty and John was twenty two. According to Lorraina John became violent just a few weeks after the wedding and the violence continued from that point on and the rain did call the police on multiple occasions and in February nineteen ninety-one John guilty to assault and battery though. The charges were later dismissed after he went through counseling. Laurynas testimony was that in the early hours of June twenty third nineteen ninety three. John came home drunk and raped her after the attack. While John was passed out in their bed Lorraina went to get a cup of water and she spotted a knife when she went to the kitchen she picked up the knife and she returned to the bedroom and she cut. John's peanuts off. Still holding the knife and the severed organ. Llerena then overweight from their apartment building and tossed the penis out of the moving vehicle into a field before driving to a friend's house. Llerena did contact the police and she told them where she had thrown the penis. The police located it and reattachment surgery was a success. Meanwhile Lorena had a rape kit examination in the very same hospital that John was being treated in. Well that's where the trial comes in. And in this case there were two trials in November nineteen ninety-three. John went on trial for Marital Sexual Assault Though. Llerena had actually accused him of rape at the time. Virginia law required couples to be living separately or for serious physical injuries to occur for a charge of marital rape. Amy and I could probably spend an episode on our feelings about the Earlier definitions of that but for now we'll just say that the jury found John Not guilty and then in January nineteen ninety-four Lorena trial began. I also want to say she did not accept a plea. Although she was offered a nice play because she really wanted her day in court and she wanted to tell her story she ended up being charged with militias wounding in this put her at risk for up to twenty years behind bars and facing possible deportation from the United States now during the arenas trial. John testified that he had never committed any act of violence against her however other witnesses and police reports corroborated that Lorena had appeared with bruises. And say did that. John had been seen hitting and shoving his wife on January. Twenty First Nineteen Ninety-four Lorraina was found not guilty due to temporary insanity meaning that she would not have to spend time in prison for wounding John However following the acquittal she was sent to a hospital for forty five day psych evaluation. This was required by Virginia State Law. After that she was released. Lorena has since become a firm for domestic violence with the Lorena Gallo Foundation founded in two thousand eight the created an organization to help victims of domestic violence and their children and to raise awareness of the issue. And this case I think we could probably go on and on talking about it and we really just glossed over it because we do want to get to the interviews because always being able to hear first hand from someone is always more valuable than us. Speculating before we speak to Llerena. We had a conversation with Luke Humphrey who played John Bobbitt and Danny Montalvo. Who Played Lorena Bobbitt? And their insight was particularly relevant to the issues in this film of domestic violence and the fact that this is not a black and white issue and how this looks on both sides of victim and victimize her so some of their insights were really helpful in understanding. This case. A little bit deeper. I also think it's interesting to hear from actors who have to portray both victims and offenders and how they feel about that and how that plays into the public's perception of those who are both victimized and those who victimized people so without further ado we'll get into our conversation with Luke and Danny. Hey how are you nice to meet you Mr meet you? I am so excited to be on a I just started listening to your show and immaculately hooked so big fans of very excited to be chatting with you thank you oh thank you. Wow all right I appreciate it so starting here. You're playing the role of John. Bobbett and John Bobbitt is portrayed as a violent and abusive victimize or of his wife in this movie. How do you prepare to play this type of role? Well this is interesting. I mean like normally playing fictional characters. So this were especially with. This is a story that was so much part of the cultural conversation. There's so much to draw upon but I interesting as far as doing research was the script that we had the story we were telling was the story that happened before or the cameras showed up before so when John is presenting himself. You know in all the footage I was able to look at his presenting himself. He's wearing a mask right. He's showing the world apart from said that he wants to be seen as so the job for me was to go okay like licking the script taking a store that we had going to court documents. You know review the transcripts and gathering information trying to draw a picture of someone and tried to find the man behind the mask and that for me was the most challenging bang. And 'cause you go through this I had moma talking with Lorena and she wanted to let me know that at the beginning there was love. You know and it's something for me playing an abuser like that. It's important to honor victim. You know and if I play someone. Who's dimensional if? I make it someone who's slightly whiplash. Trolling the mustache. Evil it discredits the people who have been taken advantage by people like that and so in the beginning when there's a blossoming romance that you can understand. Why he someone who someone to fall in love with you. Understand how these heavy abuse escalates and how he traps her by undermining different aspects of. You know her her intelligence or abilities. He creates a world where she is dependent upon him. And then you know things escalate so finding that mentality and finding the the incremental steps towards where it went to. That was a lot of the challenge. I mean I find acting as is a wonderful tool outside of just like performance in entertainment. It's it's a way of stepping into somebody's shoes. You know especially when looking at situations when you have crime or or something. Heinous with with high stakes. It's so easy to jump to painting them in black and white and I find the actors job is to step into that and understand their worldview mean. Very few people are walking around making decision always out of horrible person. I will do this horrible thing. People have emotional connection emotional impulses into intellectually justify themselves to themselves so you have to find out what that worldview is in what I so frequently in this in this script in this story I had to go through when be. This is the scene that the audience is watching. But this is the scene that I'm in. This may look like a man who's raging the control and abusing spouse but for me. I'm just you know for John in that moment. It was correcting somebody it was. I didn't want to go this far. New Push me there. It was headed completely. Take myself out in. See a whole other way into a scene great insight and I even heard some criminologists statements in there too so thanks. I appreciate it that so when considering a role like this. Did you think about the fact that John is the he is the bad guy? Even if it's not black and white and that you know that would be very alienating to female watchers or females in general. Yeah I mean just be really honest with you right now. I'm very apprehensive for this to come out. I wouldn't be surprised if I received some unpleasant feedback from audience members. But honestly like I take a look at the world right now in other myself in it and I have the opportunity to tell stories and particularly to embody roles like this because I think exploring these kinds of people in the effect they have on society is really important. And if that's my cross to bear in this situation than I think it's important enough to kind of push myself through that to get these stories told in a way that I think is important. Did the women in your life have any opinion. I wonder about you taking on this role. Yeah I mean I I'm married. I'm very happy relationship. My wife and I are very much in love. GonNa be. I'm not I'm so far from the Portray it's It's a challenging role to step into so I mean I was shooting in in Canada. My wife was in Los Angeles in one of the challenges of that is coming back. You know you're in your onset. Twelve hours a day in frequently. You're you're in this world. You're you know you're shooting violent scene. After violent scene it's going from emotional abuse physical abuse to sexual abuse all in days and just living in this world and then I remember one day coming home and just feeling like a monster and like having my wife to to to talk me back to to remind me that when I touched someone. It's not damaging when I when I use my voice on someone it's not to belittle or undermine just back to to bring me back and remind me of myself and remind me that you know. I'm not who I was betraying because it's psychologically challenging to live in that space for filming day after day after day for our you know it's it's it's it's important to pull yourself out. Certainly I've read about a lot of actors and actresses who assumed that role and they stay in at the whole time so I think I understand what you're referring to even if I have an experience it I Denise Guard director was phenomenon and g created an amazing crew of people who was predominantly female department heads since there is a lot of incredible women onset and when. I talked to her before I stepped into the role was Roy before I got the part. Was you know I don't want to do this unless less creating a space where this work can be held with respect? Because I'm not going? I'm not turning into this guy and taking this home with me. 'cause that's GonNa damage me people around me. I need to create a space where I can do this work. Do the work leave it at the door and go home. Feel like myself again. And she really created that space Intimacy coordinator stunt coordinators. The whole team came together in respect the fact that this was a true story. Retelling what we portraying actually happened to this woman. And if we don't respect that with reverence than we're doing a disservice to the reality of what this is for so many women in society. Did you take some because you said you're apprehensive about this coming out night kind of expected that? Did you take some time to really think about whether you wanted to play this role? Yeah Yeah I mean I come from the theater so i. I'm used to playing like young romantic leads in all these kinds of things but as an artist as an actor. These are the kinds of rules that I wanted to explore these. This is what I want to engage with in society As a storyteller. I don't know how this is going to turn out. I don't know how this is going to affect people who watch this but I believe how it was handled in. What we're handling is important enough that has made as maze been a challenge in scary for me to step into this is GonNa be worth it for the people that it can. You know providing share a story with Recognize themselves in it and hopefully you know reach out in helping get out of dangerous situations. You know when when you're filming you. It's it's all encompassing. You're working very long hours. You're working burying. It's very intense onset. You end a thankfully The crew in Danny Was fantastic. I A lot of great report with a lot of trust was there is so important but I had this moment when I when I met. Lorraine for the first time we've been filming for a while and I didn't know I was going to be meeting when I when I was in. We just finished filming about half a week of some of the most violent acts that take place in the film and then I go in and I need her. We greet each other and I gave her a hug and I felt her and she's not a big woman. She's she's a small delicate. I'm not a huge dude but I'm about the same size as the same size as John was holding her in my arms like that it just got. I was hit by the use of force against that woman. And what she. It just struck me that she physically went through those horrors and lived through this story and not just in little segment in that we get to pick in jump in and out of unseens but I was her day-today life. That was a real fear that she live with and to hold her in my arms like that. Just it just struck me if this story can get out and you know affect one person to reach out call for help then. This whole thing is worth it. That's great And I'm sure it well to be honest. Did you know much Just out of curiosity Luke about the barbeque case prior to Starring in spill Yeah I mean. This was a story that we used to sing about on the playground. This was kind of you know like the cultural joke of it. Had remember like everybody's parents were listening to it on the radio. You're going to school and stuff like that so this this was a very culturally rich story that we had all interpreted through the lens of the time right which was this. Big punchline is big crazy woman. Off the man's penis like everybody was laughing in kind of titillated heavies. Weird nervous feelings about it and even to this day lineup lab this role all I get Dick Jokes you know and it's so Excites me because it shows me that the Cultural Lens needs to shift and that story was viewed through such a specific interpretation of events? And I'm really hoping that the time between then and now is allowed us to shift our understanding towards compassion and towards the reality of what led to that event. So it's not a punchline did John. Did you make any efforts to reach out to John? John to you during this process I watched a lot of tape. I I watched everything I could find. I read everything I could find. I mean he's very challenge broken man and I think there's some really important things that happened to him that shaped Tim that are not being discussed not to justify him but just to understand where he was coming from and then for me again it was I wanted. I was more interested in how she saw John. It how the world saw right. I wanted to to show people how lorraina would see this man who was charming. Who had moments of a flirtation and moments of love at ev? Early on at moments of optimism in an potential. You know and then you watch that pervert you watch that cidi-gray in you know turn into what it became but look you brought up a good point. Something we talk about in our classes all the time even is the fact that even if we're explaining someone's behavior trying to look at the causes of it. We're not excusing it. When I teach theories of crime we don't say oh because we figured out why someone did it that it's totally okay. So we're not it's not you know there's a line between excusing and trying to at least examine root causes of someone's behavior and I also think there are background factors in John's life. That do help explain his behavior more so and don't excuse it. Yeah then yeah I absolutely. I think that's a really important line to draw but also it's in a really important place to go. I can't just go I'm angry. I'M GONNA SMASH The wall. There is there is pattern behavior. There is impulses that are. There's a world view that engrained in that person that affects how they respond to stimulus how they respond circumstance. And you have to explore that you have to dive into that. If you want to serve the story or understand the motive for anybody and I think acting is a is a great tool for for exploring those things I think so too. What do you think John? Bobbitt will think about your performance or your trail. Even thought about actually gotta I you know I I don't care I mean he can like me economy. It's it's not about him. It's it's about her story serving that and for finding the audiences who need this story in who is can be important to also for the people who aren't in that situation but if it can help them add to the conversation they have about domestic violence. It can help them recognize in Christian the way they've been told stories you know and who's telling them in what they're people telling them certain stories but their understanding of the world is if that could open that up a little bit. That would be fantastic. John gets angry. John gets angry as well. Making waves sometimes a good thing to can you share with us any of your next projects. Yes I have some work that I'm doing. I mean my wife and I had production company so we make stuff together even really exploring products coming up for when this were allowed to get back to work and also been exploring making stuff in this in this time and time and working how to be creative in these restrictions. Also I have a project coming on. Netflix I don't know when I mean a series called timing. Pretty things which comes out sometime this year. Well that's exciting and everyone's on Netflix's these days so I was a good time for staying home and watching TV. So wow okay well. Congratulations on that. Just a final question. I was just curious about. Do you have a dream role that you'd like to play? Not Right now. I go back and forth as a couple of stories that I'm very interested in Just historically and kind of contemporary settings that I'd like to explore both as a storyteller Anson actor but again like what this role is is an example of what I want to be doing. You know I'm a straight white man in this day and age and there's a lot of important things we need to explore about people who walk around in that body what they've done in society and how society has allowed or fostered certain behavioral problems that were reckoning with. And if the one thing I would love to do. More than anything is to embody problematic men in story so this is exactly that kind of role and I could do this for the next ever. I think that would be not only satisfying but important. I think it's great. We watched it. And it's so funny to watch I haven't seen we got prescreening so that we would have these bail to answering awesome. Thank you so much so I mean I I love it. You're so different you're right you know you're you're you're you're an entirely different person. But I feel like most people are going to recognize that. You're just playing the role and most people are going to see that this is clearly From Lorraina view. And I think that's what's important. I like that. She narrated to that. She was in there. I thought that was great. Honestly I I have the Early screener it's been too nervous to watch it. I really oh you're limited for so long it's like so like how do it and then to kind of take a step back thinking more time? I watch it on along with everybody else is GonNa say well you gotTa have to watch it in the couple of days for now but that'll be fun. I'm glad you can celebrate with your wife and your friends and that's great We've already watched and pulled the band aid but no it was great. Thank you so much really appreciate it. Genuinely loved the PODCAST. I heard about you guys. Check you out and I've been listening to you everyday so you're going GonNa hear yourself on their soon to it's It's been nice to have something books like stimulating politically socially rather but also not news time with the news. I can't do the news anymore. It was just making me crazy though so I was like. We're just gonNA stop that now. All right well thank you so much again for your time. Congratulations Good luck on Monday. I hope you enjoy the moment and your success and have fun with it for our listeners. You can check him out on. I wasn't Lorena. Bobbitt which premieres on Monday may twenty fifth on lifetime. Danny you're playing Lorena. Bobbitt him the new lifetime film I was Lorraine Bob it and Lorraina is portrayed as a woman who is severely victimized at the hand of her husband in this movie. So how do you prepare to play this type of role? I definitely started off with watching what was available to me. And that was the Amazon documentary All of the footage and media coverage from the media from back in the day and I use the trial that was televised and then of course I had lorraina herself who was able to talk to me and walk me through anything I needed and then the accident. That was one of the most difficult things to prepare. Just because I didn't want it to interfere with the performance in any way on so I made sure to try and work on as much as I can so that I can kind of. Just throw it out the window when it came time to perform. Yeah there were a lot of challenges Going through all the different scenes in a majority of them I spent either crying or being abused or being physically abused so it was a very big challenge and learning experience. So would you say because that's one of the questions I have is? What was the biggest the biggest challenge? Would you say it was the intense emotional state that you were in? Or what was it for? You once seemed that specifically comes to mind is where it starts off physically violent and then it goes into being sexually violent and that we did that said we did several takes of that just to get them from different angles. And by the time we were done I felt such pure rage you know just because I felt the anger. I felt so much anger for what he did for Lorraina. I felt so much anger at John. Bobbitt and I went back to my trailer. I just remember wanting to punch something. Just remember to let all these emotions flow through me not to try. Scotian down a repress them just let it all come out and then get ready for work. The next you know we had the components of it being choreographed so we had to remember you know. There needs to be technique in their wheat. Safety is always number one and then once we were able to work on that and have that down pat. That's when we can bring the emotions to all the performance pieces and that's where it got heavy Because you even though the director yells cut you WanNa stay in the scenes that you can go right back into it. And that's what I personally chose to do. So just so that I wouldn't have to get in and out of this head space. You Know Luke made it very easy for me to feel safe to feel in a safe environment so that I can go all out. That's wonderful and obviously the exact opposite of what Lorena through and realize so so. I asked Luke about this yesterday When considering this role did he worry about the perceptions of John Bobbitt as being a villainous sky so I wonder did you worry at all about the opposite perception that Lorraina was perceived as a villain to some men at the time. Did this ever enter your mind? Oh yeah definitely. I definitely saw that split between women and men. All majority of women were supporting for her in rooting for her. And saying that's exactly what I would have done and then for the Manuela's worst nightmare come true so I did recognize that split and did see how Raina was made to be this villain to men but at no point. Did I ever feel like apprehensive to take on the role? Because of that. As a matter of fact I felt like it was an obligation to the women who supported her and who rooted for her to show that you know she does have a voice and she's been use it. Did you know much about the rain? Bob and John Bobby case our trial before tackling this role. I had absolutely no idea who lorraina was who John was. I hadn't heard any of the jokes which is amazing because they were everywhere. I didn't hear about the incident itself. I had never heard of a woman cutting off her husband's penis. I was living under a rock clearly. So when I did get the audition I will turn and then everything just K- flooding in and I was like. Wow this is the story that just rocked the headlines back in the day because I was born five days after it happened so you know growing up it had already. It already left the headlines. Almost you know but still I had never heard of Lorena Bobbitt. So it's now you know twenty six years later. That's how old I am for her. To Tell Her story for me to be a part of that and so surreal. Wow you must have been really overwhelmed with all the research and all the footage. If you didn't know a thing about it this is really a truly huge engrossing case. Oh absolutely I watched hours hours of it. I just remember yelling at my TV. You know yelling at John Bobbitt. Just it was such a a lot of emotions going through that while as watching all those on. I know you talked a little bit about Spending time with Lorraina to play to play Lorraina. How involved was she in shaping your portrayal of her so she. She was on set for a couple of days. She wasn't there for the more. You know. Tougher more graphic scenes but the Davis. She was there we were able to talk a one on one about some of the most difficult parts of the reality that she had to go through but then. I personally made the choice to not want to dive into the details of her life. Just because I didn't want her to relive that you know she's already be kind of reliving and she's already going to watch it. I told her you have absolutely any notes. You know if you have anything that you want me to change want me to do. You're always watching you. Tell me so. I knew that there was that open communication and I also knew that the whole emotional abuse of the trauma was the toughest part for her and that really helped with my performance. Because I knew it wasn't so much about the all the physical stuff and how you know she was bruised and hurting was more all all internal Danny. Do you think that this movie will resonate with people now? Given the climate of the metoo movement. I sure expect it to and I hope it does because we are in a different climate right now back when during a story was I heard it was joke. You know no one took it seriously. No one really knew what was going on so for today for people to hear her story with is different Lens and a different mindset. I think it's going to expire people in the way we hope it you do. You think we've made progress in the way we deal with these kind of issues of domestic violence with women. I think there has been progress made but to look back you know thirty years ago and it's still Kinda like women are still going through the same thing. Women are stealing arenas shoes today. So it's almost like you feel like there wasn't progress made but I think there was like the violence against Women Act. That came into effect after what happened to the right now but I think now that right especially with the meat you Arab people are starting to realize that women have this horrible thing in common and we're all coming together and we're coming. You're becoming stronger than people are starting to listen and I think that's the whole point of this on an individual level. Danny has the experience of playing Lorraina change any of your previously held view views about domestic violence. Definitely I mean I I had done my research on it and I wanted it to stop being just definitions and Statistics and numbers. I wanted it to mean something and I realize Happens to so many women you know it's your to your sister. Cheer Your Wife Your Daughter. Your aunt you know. They're all around us and something that I was educated on you. Know they always ask. Why didn't learn a leave? Why don't women we when these abusive relationships and I realize it's because when they do try to leave that's the moment where there in the most amount of danger and it's so easy for people to say just leave just walk out So to know that and to be able to now educate other people as to why. It's so jekyll for victims. Do not leave that trauma. I think I think for people to know that I think that's definitely going to change the story. Can you also tell us maybe about the rewards or the most rewarding part to you after you finished of playing Lorena Bobbitt? I fell a hell incredibly empowered to go to do all these scenes and then to come out of it and realize hey. I wasn't in any danger I was. I was safe the entire time but to realize this is a true story that this happens to women every day and men that it almost humbled me it. Almost you know something clicked in me. Where was like this isn't just? This isn't just acting. This isn't just a movie. This is a story this is. Somebody's reality that that needs to be shared with other people to wake them up and to re educate the world about what's going on especially now with the pandemic no not. Everyone is safe at home. So I think this is a really important rudy Driving went to watch. They're a lot more people inside. So you're GONNA see a lot of increases in domestic violence. So you're getting an idea now of how you can access help or resources or even just some insight. You're probably right during this. Time is very relevant. Absolutely was it hard for you to or. Was it easy for you to close the book on this and move on or when you finish? Did you still feel like you're wearing the character of LLERENA I? It was easy for me to close Book Von. Just because I knew as soon as you know I signed onto the project I started mentally and emotionally prepared myself To be able to go in and out of these. You know dark places I made sure that when I went to my trailer I had a little almost little ritual to get myself out of that. That's that space. You know out of that place to make sure to not take it back home with me or back to the Hotel Room. You know we did. The last seen felt this weight off my shoulders. I felt like I had committed as best as I could and I gave everything I could. It was really really happy and proud of of all my work. I just felt like I could breathe again. You know and go home and not have to worry about these dark dealings and emotions. I bet that was a relief in my line of work. I understand exactly what you're talking about. So let me ask you now that you have wrapped What is your next project if you can share with us well as soon as I finish dropping everything shut down so we literally finished the day before I got home in my work shutdown everything so I haven't been auditioning nothing's really been in the works right now as soon as things start to open bats when I plan on hitting the floor in running a currently in order to stay busy on doing music. I'm musician so I play guitar. Piano needs lately and I sing and I write my own music. So I'm trying to create that kind of contents to create a feel like that's too many talents for worse and it's a little unfair. I know sometimes I just listing things just so you know. Thank you so much Danny. So for everyone. Who's listening again? This was Danny Montalvo and you can catcher on time on Monday may twenty fifth in the premiere of I was Lorena Bobbitt. Thank you so much Danny. Thank you so much Meghan Amy Though it's not our our normal thing to interview actors and actresses. I really liked hearing from Danny and Luke. I thought they had some great insights how they were approaching this on the transformation that they had to make but also about their opinions of the issue of domestic violence. The changes that have happened in this country since Laurynas case and the fact that they wanted to take on difficult roles like this that they knew polarizing because this case was a polarizing case and so they both felt like they were going to you know they both felt like they had a real important task and a challenge and they both knew that. We're going to be risked to doing so but I think ultimately the fact that From both of them I just heard this issue was just too important to ignore so I appreciate that and I thank them both fast. Now let's get to Lorraina although it's been more than twenty five years. Lorraina is still very much an advocate for survivors of domestic abuse. And as we'll hear she has done quite a bit of work in this area and without further. Ado here's our interview with Lorraina Gallo. Hi Lorraine are you there? Yes yes I'm here. Hi Hi Lorraina. How are you good thank you? How are you thank you so much for having me? Thank you so much for being with us today. Amy and I are actually criminologist and professors. Who teach and study about the criminal justice system and all aspects of crime and we created this podcast women in crime because we wanted to look at these stories of women who have been victims who've been offenders who have been both but we wanted to investigate it more through the Gender Lens and how you know being a female shapes the experience much differently than males so I think that our listeners are going to be very excited about your story Llerena. So thank you thank you. You founded the Lorena Gallo Foundation in two thousand eight. Can you tell our listeners? A little bit about the foundation and your primary goal in this organization absolutely. My purpose of my organization is to raise awareness and prevention of domestic violence and sexual assault through a location at as cholesterol levels and community engagement My main goal is to open an emergency shelter into future and provide immediate assistance such as housing food clothing and a safe environment for people looking to escape abusive relationships even now with the covid. Nineteen my goodness depend. Deming is even worse. Domestic violence is under rice. And there's also statistics that we have seen in in the United States. That more ammunition is sold in gun. Firearms guns is really on the rice. Especially now we are leaving as socially pedantic of domestic violence in the middle of Health viral coronavirus pandemic. So it's really dangerous. So turning to your own background I know that you were raised in Venezuela by your parents and I was wondering if you could maybe describe your family dynamic and the relationship between your parents. It was a loving family. I MEAN WE ATTEND CHURCH. Catholic Roman Catholic and It was very Happy my childhood was very you know normal. I should say I mean I have siblings but We were raised in a small town and every know each other and we played in the streets of. There's no cell phones and it was. It was an amazing time. It was a very organic very natural life. Can you tell us? And were you ever exposed to a given what you were just saying? Were you ever exposed to any type of cultural violence towards women in your childhood or really prior to your relationship with John. No not at all. I did haired Growing up there's a lot of in South America and all of the Americas coming me myself coming from Latin American countries Because I was born in Ecuador race in Venezuela I heard about. There's Ladda much. Ism Culture in a lot of women are subject to to that and industrial. Fortunately but I did grew up. You know not in that environment by here hearing about there's a lot of problems on cultural like that and you know the Patriarchal Society in that. It's very influence in our society as Latina in basically new of that but I never was exposed to that understood. Thank you so some reports say that John may have been a victim of violence in his childhood. Would you be able to describe John's Family? And what his relationship was like with. His parents does news to me. I never heard of him being whenever he he'd never talk about him being abused as a child and during our marriage. I never met his parents. He was raised by his aunt and uncle as far as I know and I only met them twice. Did you see any signs of John? Being controlling before he actually became physically violent. Not at all I mean. He was very charming. Never seen the red flags during our dating. Oh courtship we were dating for about nine and a half ten months before we got married and he had abused Right in the first month when we're still newlyweds. So following along that line then I know the police were called to your home for domestic incidents. Do you know how many times that happens? I don't recall exactly how many times were a the police came to my home For domestic violence That we have and I did call nine one one several times endow was actually one of my defense in court So they did have the record In place based on that in I think he got The very last time that I called the police because of the record they the police show it at my house and they said Okay so you know you call all the time and they did took a John in handcuffs. What happened the other times? Lorraina that you had called the police. What were the outcomes? Unfortunately the police came. But I don't think they were able to know what was going on or how to handle a case of domestic violence. It was very sad to actually reach out for help but then I know that nothing was going to come on in resolve my problems so I was kinda reaching out but at the same time it was not a very good end result every time I called the police. Oh they come in plants. I was very intimidated by them. Because you know see two men in uniform and a half to show my bruce. I have to show my bra my my body. It was really really embarrassed and his very traumatic after being already traumatized by my husband. John was convicted of assaulting. You ones from what we understand. But the charges were later dismissed. Did he ever acknowledge his bad behavior or his violence in this incident? Absolutely not I mean it was all my fault. He was managed to twist everything around a lot and remember between ninety three and ninety five pounds and he was over Almost two hundred pounds and did they namic so of abuse was extremely extremely difference of. There's no way that could never heard them in. There was no record in court. Nothing recorded any therapy sessions of him. Taking any sort of acknowledgment. I believe when I called The Military Belise. They had that on record. Maybe it was used on my trial that he did sign and he admitted abusing me. And hitting me punching me okay. So we're going to switch gears a little bit and I want to talk about the forthcoming lifetime movie. I was Lorena Bobbitt so in that movie when the plea deal was offered. It was depicted that you turned it down immediately. Was that the reality. Did you turn it down as quick as it seemed in the movie or did you take a little more time to consider a play? Oh absolutely I wanted to I didn't want to Take the plead because I wanted to to be so transparent. I wanted to be able to have the chance to tell my story. I know his story was already told but I also wanted to tell the public at one a tale the world. What happened to me? What what I describe a monster. This person did to me. There's a lot of things that I wanted to express in Intel. Basically what really happened? The language barrier was the key issue for you getting help. Were there any plans to adapt the lifetime movie to Spanish? Absolutely I think is very important to to translate not only in Spanish but in many language because we remember domestic violence is affecting the whole world. It's not only here in the United States but in Latin America because like we said there's a lot of Patriots aside Shema Society. It's really sad. What in Europe mechanisms Spain people? There is a lot of women who get killed this happening. Every fifteen seconds of woman gets abuse here in the United States every fifteen seconds. It's it's really unbelievable at that is that is really insane. Llerena have any previous documentaries or movies. Gotten anything wrong about your case that you know of yes. Yes absolutely. There's there could be a of you know misinformation of course and remember the media did a great job of portraying me as the crazy blood. Latino which was very racial at the time well So the media did this good job of portraying me the whole Ron and stuff very false stories. They've focused on sensationalistic stories. Lurid details bazaar stories then focuses on his a Cutting off his says instead of the core of the whole story which was domestic violence and sexual assault is a woman. Who does this a story of a woman who have gone through abuse in nobody really talk about and nobody really since a care they make jokes about it and that was wrong? I agree and I think you're right. I think they missed it completely on the first time. Now I just have a question about the lifetime movie. Is there a reason why? The prosecution's case wasn't depicted at all in the film Indian movie Basically a story. It was a focus on me and John Story. So that's for The movie actually was more director into the another prosecution. But might defense. Okay so let's turn to the criminal proceedings against you in general a little bit One of the questions that I always wonder about people who take the stand. So I'll ask you because you took the stand in your own defense is do you regret getting up and testifying in court absolutely no. I think that women Empowers women to actually come to court and for them to tell the story it empowers women to to hear the voices into to actually understand the we. Our voices are going to be heard whether it's in the courtrooms of law whether it's outside of the lowery's in society a withers and social media. There's a ladder of a story. Snow at an empowerment of women have come in in in share the stories and social media like with the me too movement or the why. I stayed in the why I laughed. Campaigns I think is very power for women to know. The now is okay to talk about it. And that's one of the reasons I made the movie to give the conversations to give my story telling to empower more victims and survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault to share the story. This is not acceptable. This is an e. She'll issued that. We have to share this. I believe that you said John used your immigration status against you as a way to control you. Do you think that your citizenship or your nationality played a role or significant in the way you were treated in the criminal justice system. I don't think that That actually had a big impact and how affected my role in justice system. I don't I don't believe that I've heard women report feeling victimized by the system again so I'm just wondering did you feel at all victimized by our legal system now I. I don't think that I was victimized by the legal system at all because I was a day case and it was basically you know this is what we got and this is what we're going to you know half to find a way and and that's how I don't feel dead. That has an impact on me at all and against my the justice system. I don't think so okay. So did you feel a sense of fairness than with the justice system. Yes I think that the justice system was fair with me to me okay. Good that's good to know. Thank you finally on this one You were found not guilty by reason of temporary insanity. Did spending the court ordered forty five days in a psychiatric facility following your verdict. Have any effect on you whatsoever whether that would be a positive or negative effect. I tell you what I fail some sense so relieved when I went to You know to the Hospital despite guidry hospital. Because I was around by doctors but at the same time I didn't know what to expect and I was more sense of relief. After the media. Remember the media played a big deal emotionally and was really traumatizing to not be able to see what's going on and people are joking and make laugh about it and there's no discipline joke on somebody who gave raped. I mean I can make if a child gets raped. You know. They don't joke about it. Then why should they joke about a woman? Being raped is not difference rape is rape in so to me was a more of a sense of calm after I had to the media when it went to Central State Hospital. Llerena talking about the media. Do you think the media attention hurt or helped you in your case Dim media basically Did whatever it did. I think that it hurt. I lot of people didn't know how to react in first of all it was differ for the first time it was televised in a courtroom. So a lot of people have access. Dude do see my trial and know what happened in. What is that about? But the whole country was divided. I mean a man was with with John. Women was with me supporting me. And you know men also were supportive of me as well but It was a complete. It was a sense of division into country so it Kinda played is own role so being that John was so abusive to you. Why do you think that he had so much public support again? Because I think there for the whole nature of his own case there are. His Penis was caught off. And that's one of the party that you know it was The whole thing was that was just basically and also remember Howard. Stern was there and he helped to promote John and he was a popular radio personality as she said but You know that happened as well in in the whole like I said because people just feel that it was more sensitive for what act instead of domestic violence Do you think the outcome of John's case would have been any different. If you're trial had been I. I don't think so because he was charged with marital rape and not domestic violence. I do wish that on his trial the judge would have include of the prosecution would include domestic violence but that was not the case unfortunately Lastly on the media and you may have answered this to some degree but what is one of the biggest exaggerations or falsehoods. The media reported about your case. Or about you'll arena. The media missed the window of opportunity to talk about domestic violence and talk a lot of things and that is itself is a falsehood because They concentrated more again in in his mail. A muscular needed to your again. I should say just going. Go ahead his penis then it instead of domestic violence in sexual assault and I think that's Does a falsehood and reported a sensational stories in Louis. Details one of the things. I'm wondering is did any of your family or friends abandoned relationships with you after your arrest or after your trial no actually. They were very very supportive of me. They were Family was always there. My friends was always there. My community was actually there for me and my job in everybody. Was You know very very supportive? That's Nice I'm sure you were very Grateful for the support at the time. Absolutely you had a former employer and friend Jenna and she seemed to support you in various ways both before and after your arrest and we see her depicted in the movie as well What changed that led to the end of your friendship with with her friendship never ended. I think she was very busy. She she's a business woman and our. She was a businesswoman and she couldn't handle everything she she started to be my agent or she she. She wasn't an attorney. She was in a managers. You at the same time. She tried to raise a family. Enron business so she has too much on her as they really got too much and fortunately just you know sometimes people just get caught up on those things and you know you leave your live and a life goes on understood thank you. In two thousand and nine. You appeared together on the show the insider with John so on the show John. Apologize to you for the way he treated you during your marriage to feel like that apology was sincere. Absolutely not the. There's no sear- on his apology. Other than that media appearance. Have you had any contact with Johnson's? Your trial not at all I know that he tried to contact me. through my From Dacia May Organization. Which is the galvanization and his public is a public organization so he tried to pop up here in there Or send me emails and still does something. I can't avoid because I can't close my organization enemies public So but yeah he is descent people his descend Not only people notes and handwritten notes to me before. What was the nature of those notes? Was it asking for forgiveness or apology? I don't really know Why he did that. I mean remember. Domestic violence is based on control and basically. He doesn't let go off. I mean I don't know if this man he needs help why can I said? Do you find yourself more intuitive now about people who are violent or abusive absolutely. Yes yes I learn to see the red flags. Yes absolutely and also. I know the domestic violence now. Discriminate as well so it can happen to any of us. Do you see significant changes now in how we treat the issue of domestic violence since your trial so long ago yes it's Almost thirty years there was no vowel of the violence against women's Act There was no hotline. Thirty years have passed We have seen changes in those. Those outlines exists now. There's a lot of protective orders that you know they have actually detected women and men. There's a lot of Training with the police or how to handle cases domestic violence. A lot of things have changed. We actually going into step of the right direction. In terms of yes. We have seen a lot of changes and how victims treated But at the same time there's a loud more this much more to do. There's a lot of work to be done to protect women to take victims of domestic violence and sexual assault just as a follow up to that. I'm just wondering or is there anything you think we're not doing well or not doing yet. There's a lot of gaps in need to be closed like for example of firearms. How can a person is still on a firearm? After he's being caught with Or or being sent to jail after a domestic violence a lot of our terrorists dino gun shootings have not everyone do but a lot of them has a domestic violence background in themselves in his mental health. So there's A. There's a big gap. We need to close this. Just one of them of many agree. Thank you for that Lorraina. What advice would you give to someone who might be in your situation who did not see the signs of violence early on and didn't see that really until later in the relationship when maybe it was too late when I made this movie? I wanted to Ashley Project. Not only For people to see the dynamics of how domestic violence wanted to dig and see how vulnerable a victim of domestic violence is in how brutally cruel and vicious aggressive. The perpetrators can be but also I want them to know that there's a connection it's gotta be a connection somewhere when they see a movie like this in real life is happening there is there are resources. I want them to empower themselves by education there With the tip of our fingers we can actually use the Internet and used as resources empower yourself. Educating yourself and I also want him to know when the lead them Nell dead a beer in an abusive situation. You never should stay. Assimilated always contact people. Wiscon- friend family stay especially now that there's a covid nineteen their abusers use isolation allied to to hold you down but you can still go and call somebody be connected in also. I WanNa tell you. The silence is not an option is US never an option for me. You should never be an option for you resilience because we believe in yourself. There's hope and there's a louder things that people who are understand your situation you are not alone. Thank you for that. Lorena much appreciated so you have a foundation. You have done documentary in a movie Are there any future projects right? Now that you're working on yes absolutely like I said. My main goal is to open up an emergency shelter in the near future to help victims of domestic violence and sexual assault to escape. That's wonderful and and like I said I unless Ahmed Speaker. I do a lot of speeches in colleges and universities and dial in my community so it's It's wonderful. I work all the time in my foundation. That is wonderful and speaking of your foundation. Can you remind our listeners where they can find your foundation if they're interested sure is a Lorena Gallo Foundation dot org or you can actually see it on my facebook the rain a gala foundation? Congratulations on the movie. We watched it. I love that you're part of it. I love that you narrated part of it. I thought it adds something so unique to it and I thought it really made it. Who is really able to understand and identify because you were in there So thank you very much and thank you for sharing with us really appreciate it and we really wish you luck. Thank you so much absolutely. Thank you the Raina for our listeners. You can check out the movie. I was Lorena Bobbitt on Monday. May Twenty fifth on lifetime. I really enjoyed speaking to Llerena. And it's very rare that you get to talk to somebody who you see portrayed. It's a certain way in the media. I don't know about you making but when this case was in the media I've really. I went along with the narrative that the media was putting out there. She was you know scorned woman and they really didn't talk much about the fact that she was a victim herself. They didn't they didn't talk about the fact that she was a victim. Actually as she said the most hurtful thing was the way they made fun of this situation. And I think one of the takeaways here is you know the difference between then and now lorraina would have been treated a lot differently and our system as she said. We've made some serious progress. Yes we still have further to go but I think Lorraina is certainly part of that. You know the help or the movement to progress us and get us forward and I always found it interesting how they both had supporters and I often wondered. Was it the nature of the crime that a lot of males were supporting John Bobbitt. Because you think of what's the sign of masculinity right the male organ and having a woman cut a male's castrate a man was I think very like we said very polarizing but I think it I often wonder if she had cut off his arm or his hand would've have different with this case. I think that's a great point. Amy and I have to agree with you. I think that it would have been a whole different conversation. But you know what good furlough arena for having this conversation now and keeping it going and she's going to be part of a movement to progress us forward as a society so we thank you so much Lorraina. We really appreciate it speaking with you. Thank you lorraina account. If you're interested in supporting Lena's foundation or to even just learn more about the movement please check out Lorena. Gallo Foundation on facebook women in crime is written and hosted by Megan sacks and Amy Schlossberg our producer and editor is James Varga. Our music is composed by desert media. If you enjoy the show you can get access to add episodes exclusive. Ama's and other bonus content for a small Mogi contribution through Patriot to find out more visit patron dot com slash women incline to do uh-huh.
"On the media is supported by. Indeed, are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes. Set up screener questions then zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast. Listener supported w in C studios. From WNYC in New York. This is on the media. I'm Brooke stone. And I'm Bob Garfield O M G time so flies as a Friday only six hundred twenty seven days remain until the twenty twenty presidential election, which means reporters editors anchors and pundits are running out of time to speculate trivialize and marginalized to be baited by irrelevancies and to otherwise miss the forest for the clicks. But they've already got a head start with. At least a half dozen women in the running for the democratic nomination, the media ether already abounds with nonsensical tropes, Bernie's everything. Warren is but better he's more energizing we're unifying certainly more authentic Jilib ran has very politically ambitious. That's fine. She's without a doubt going to run for president. The question really is nonsense not can female win for president. But can female beep Trump. Scholars have long since established measurable biases, and double standards in the perception of women holding and seeking power, but now in the metoo age and in the wake of the midterm elections surge of women into the house of representatives. The news media have a chance to choose new habits over old ones. And so we bring you this breaking news, consumers, handbook, gender and politics edition first on the list, the flawed and fraught metric of likeability the model of political leadership for a long time has been want to have a beer with this presidential candidate. And that's a strange standard and one that probably ought to be interrogated, but it's also one that's not very available to high achieving women who forever eighty of reasons don't fit into that easygoing image in large part because it's not available to them. And so because Hillary Clinton I think has been the main instance of what female political leadership. Could hypothetically look like in the United States, the fixation on her inability to fit into that paradigm of having a beer with the broS has sort of filtered into our concept of what a presidential candidate ought to be and can never be if she's female earn yet. Here's the first question that US Senator Kirsten gillibrand was asked as a presidential candidate. Selling for like, an eighty shower persons that maybe the country wants someone quite that. Now think that actually invites they candidate to speculate and kind of a meta way about her own personality, which just instantly renders a person unlikable. Yeah. It is a trap. No almost by definition candidates. For public office says as a group are ambitious and self absorbed sometimes to a pathological degree. But when a woman displays these traits. She somehow is Lady Macbeth. Yeah. She certainly is. And if she's not that's in some ways even more suspicious because it means that she successfully masking it, I think Clinton kind of had it coming from both sides. She was both seen as conniving calculating, secretive and manipulative. But also when there was nothing that could be said about for example, abusing her staff that too could be read as well. You know, she knew that she had to keep up the veneer even in private contexts. In other words, there is no way for female ambition. I think to be read as straightforward honest and healthy are almost hesitate to belabor the obvious. But there is also wardrobe fixation, even if that's unusually blatant the phenomenon of what does she look like how she dressed. It is always the elephant in the room. I think what's very interesting about this moment. It gives me a lot of hope is that the midterm elections have produced this. Unprecedented abundance of women in the house, expanding our visual sense of what female leadership can look like. And what the intersection between vanity image and political effectiveness can be. Nonetheless, you still believe the culture is rigged against women. You've said that even popularity can redound against perceptions of seriousness. You talk about fandom, and the double edged sword that that represents may have so little practice, relating to female political leaders that it sometimes slips over into the language of phantom, which I think is dangerous phantom is functionally I think diminishing to someone's perceived political seriousness, I will say that because you Cortez has been threatening that needle in ways. I find completely fascinating. She is young enough to have grown up being entirely fluent in the language of self conscious. Self presentation that older candidates sometimes falter at she's managed cherry titular, division of female, political leadership that is actually fun. She might be the female candidate that people do want to have a beer with. She's made that thinkable Verizon f. Episode where someone dug up the college YouTube video that they did it's gonna rooftop it was treated in the right wing media as scandalous, she certainly flipped that tour advantage because people thought it was charming. There was a much more toxic example of using a woman's past against her net came with Kamala Harris, those of you who aren't familiar with our friend Kamo. Let me give you just a little bit of background. She entered the California political scene in the early nineties. She was fresh at a law school and working at the amid a county district attorney's office, then enters her boo Willie Brown. He was once the speaker of the California state assembly and mayor of San Francisco over the weekend. The former Sanford mayor admitted to having an extramarital fair with young Kamla pulling her out of the security and elevating her political career. I think that it's just so clear that everyone who I'm basically makes it up the ladder in politics has been. Helped in deeply inappropriate ways that I'm not sure that gendered smear is really taking root which I was interested to observe. I don't know if you agree with that. But that was my sense. You know, I think maybe there is reason for hope. But in the meantime, can we just look at the Amy klobuchar situation. Evidently, she's a terrible boss. There's a lot of testimony that affect berates employees throws things manages by humiliation and so forth. I am tough. I push people. That is true. But my point is is that I have high expectations for myself. I have hikes practicians for the people that work for me, and I have high expectations for this country. Temperament is an always has been fair game to evaluate candidates is this out of proportion to the way men are who fly off the handle. I think that there is a real danger in calling any criticism of female candidates sexist, not just because that's unfair and inappropriate. But because you also need that candidate by making her seem fragile. To the extent that labor matters and the the rights of labor matter and the Democrats in those on the left prioritize human dignity in the workplace. Those are pretty disqualifying traits. You know, I think those are entirely fair criticisms, I think too that playing into a pretty available stereotype of women as duplicity. Kluber says reputation was as being very Minnesota nice. I mean in you know, in the cavenaugh hearing, certainly she was a figure of apparent equanimity? So it's distressing right to find confirmation of something that I think is very easily attributed to other women. But if it's real it's real, you know, I I don't think there's anything to be gained by pretending that those things aren't true we've been talking about journalistic tropes and a one that certainly characterizes every race is horse race coverage to ignore policy to ignore the actual institutions of government and just focus on electability. But even that seems to work to the disadvantage of female candidates know, what I think horse race coverage does is promote a tendency wherein. The pundit ventriloquists is the worst aspects of American nature, so sexist racist at cetera, and then taking all of that for. Ranted speculates on the chances of that voter, overcoming all of those biases in order to elect a particular person. So that is always going to make female candidates minority. Candidates seem weaker and less electable for the simple reason that we have not historically elected people like that. So it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy thing where that has become the dominant mode of American reporting electability is the only relevant consideration. So it just produces a circle where there ought to be discussion of policy what American people actually need skirmish solution is for breaking news consumers and book, which is our ongoing checklist of things for the media-literate to keep their eyes open Ford understand that the media doing the reporting are doing them Justice. But you know, it may be actually a dubious premise because it presumes that if journalists were just doing a little bit better that we would be better able to be making sound informed decisions. But in this case, it really isn't just flawed coverage. These are prejudices, and double standards that afflict the entire culture. I wonder if the last checklist item on the consumers handbook should be physician heal thyself. You're responsible for what you bring to the table as well. We believe ourselves to be rational consumers rational actors, and I think we all like to think that we're fair minded and weigh the evidence and make decisions accordingly if cognitive scientists shown us anything, it's the we are quite blind. In fact, to our own decision making processes in very good or rationalizing our decisions after the fact, but often were reconstructing a line of reasoning that isn't actually what led us to that conclusion, and that is hard to confront and it is largely a function of bias of implicit bias. But it's also the fact that first impressions have just been shown to enormously shape. Someone's idea of a person or a political issue new facts don't actually cause us to refute. Those beliefs very often, it's not just the. We're triable. It's not just the partisanship is at an all time high. It's that this is kind of like a flaw in the human brain that, you know, the the need to collaborate and like link up with members of our tribe. Leads us to frequently overlook evidence that might in a truly rational system, persuade us of the opposite case. So correcting for that is just an ongoing challenge. And I think requires among other things realizing the ways that we gravitate towards news coverage that confirms what we want to hear. And specifically I think horse race coverage that encourages us to think that our side will win. My pleasure. Thanks for chatting with me. Bob borrow is a staff writer at slate. You can view are breaking news, consumers, handbook, gender and politics edition at on the media Dodd horn. Coming up depictions of the tabloid vixen of the nineties undergo some overdue revision. This was on the media. This is on the media. I'm Bob Garfield. And I'm glad stone the nineties imprinted certain images on collective imaginations that we wholeheartedly embraced images about certain kinds of women ambitious raging women who made salacious headlines a generation ago. Monica Tanya, lorraina Monica was a young trim Monica. Lewinsky's behavior was unacceptable. Ridden. Nancy Kerrigan chiller now she felt the husband was selfish because he had an orgasm and she didn't. So she grabbed a handful and slice. I mean, this was one angry woman. But and it may just be the passage of time are outdated tribal loyalties fade. We increasingly see how ill served were by our media and our biases and were finally able to peer through a clearer lens to consider information. That was always there. But that we chose to ignore. I Monica the young intern who allegedly seduced a president and threatened the presidency. New book me and my big mouth. I think Monica Lewinsky is the one who should apologize to America. She's the home wrecker. And if anybody really owes an apology, I think it's her David Letterman's joke is not funny and Bill Maher's, high Duchesne, even more pure island self-serving than usual in part because the woman herself once a twenty two year old intern in trance by the leader of the free world took time to grow up and speak on her own behalf. Here's part of her two thousand fifteen Ted talk to years before the metoo movement took off in nineteen ninety eight after having been swept up into an improbable romance. I was swept up into the eye of a political, legal and media maelstrom. Like we hit never seen before she spoke about how digital media turned on inevitable barrage into an. Epic global bombardment. I was patient zero of losing personal reputation on a global scale almost instantaneously in nineteen ninety eight. I lost my reputation and my dignity. I lost almost everything. And I almost lost my life recently. Her story was revisited in depth in the celebrated podcast slow burn scared us. She wasn't at Friday afternoon. He was unwilling to get wired up sent off to spy on the president. That is where she comes through as as I can't imagine anybody else. Would you just said, no, I think there's an honesty perhaps everything else that there is if Monica Lewinsky presents herself, she doesn't disguise. I just think that's admirable persist in thinking. That's at. With the passage of time her tormentors to have been made to reflect. No, I started to feel bad because myself and other people shows like this relentless jokes about the poor woman as she was a kid twenty one twenty. I feel bad about my role in helping push the humiliation to the point of suffocate had we journalists comedians, the general public, and yes, the supposedly enlightened liberals and feminists of the day dotting Lewinsky wrong, what about Tonya Harding, the ruthless skater whose ex husband hired someone to smash the knee of her competitor. Nancy? Kerrigan skating was great. But my life was in shambles came from absolute nothing people called her poor white trash. Tonya Harding was absolutely screwed over. I could Amory the villain of the nineteen ninety four Winter Olympics. Got an updated depiction with the two thousand eighteen documentary. Truth in lies, the Tonya Harding story, which portrayed her not simply as a vicious fighter. But as an abused girlfriend and abused daughter a perpetual outsider mocked relentlessly for her low class pedigree, and who the Olympic Committee and the public. We're only too happy to watch fall from grace America, one someone. They want someone to love. They want someone. Yup. Kidding wanted easy. This from I Tanya, the bio pic that also came out in two thousand seventeen rendering the ones simple narrative, even more complicated here too. We didn't need new facts. We simply needed a new lens on an old story. And then of course, there was a Nieta hill who in nineteen Ninety-one accused then nominated supreme court Justice, Clarence Thomas of sexual harassment hill might not have been universally condemned. But she was repeatedly humiliated take the November nineteen Ninety-one people magazine cover featuring Virginia and Clarence Thomas in an embrace with the headline how we survived survived that is the allegations from the sex crazed or love struck clerk scorned woman. Do you have a motto complex? No. Have you started in you psychologist that is when you in school, and what you may have followed up with the question of fantasies. It looked bad. Then it looks a lot worse now that case to received a documentary revision and docu dramatic one on HBO also before the Trump election and the subsequent metoo movement. And is of this week. We can add one more woman and one more story to the list of the revisited and revised. This was a modern love story. Girl boy falls in love with girl boy Mary's girl girl cuts off boy's penis. The of Bob it the aggrieved Manassas Virginia wife who in nineteen Ninety-three cut off her husband's penis as men held their collective, groins lorraina instantly became a national. No a global joke. It was December twenty second twenty sixteen. I was scrolling through Facebook. And I saw a headline Huffington Post headline. It said Lorena Bobbitt has done being your punchline Joshua Rafei is the filmmaker behind lorraina a four part documentary series of elible now on Amazon prime. He barely remembers when the story blew up. I was eleven years old, but I grew up with this piece of ill informed perverse, common knowledge that some crazed middle aged white woman cut her husband's penis off in the middle of the night. Right and threw it out the car window when the reality is she had come here at age eighteen from Venezuela in search of the American dream. And she thought she found it when she met this, handsome charming marine. John, Wayne, John, Wayne Bobbitt, the story was called the battle of the Bobbitt's which faded seem roughly as if they were to equals this goes to show the weight that was given to what she did to him as opposed to what he had done to her over and over again serially abusing and raping her for years her one act was given the same weight as his four years worth of X. And I was thinking that if you would render the story in cartoon form, the main character was just really a severed part of one Bob it the story followed how it was the taxed where it was thrown how it was found whether it still worked it's a really uncommon injury. I've never done one never seen one. Well, he ever ever have a normal sex life again. I'm off to mystic that he'll regain virtually all of his normal function. And most important what some tabloids quoting Shakespeare called the unkindest cut of all. Did it hurt? It was about a penis. It was all anybody cared about. Which reminds me that at this point in time respectable publications and news outlets. Didn't use the word penis in the beginning of episode one one of the police officers talks about having to get onto the radio and try to convey to the other officers what the situation was they were all speaking in vague terms about a missing appendage, and some of the police officers thought that it is it's a finger is a to-. What are we looking for what with the mores of the time? That was shaping the coverage. If you go back just a couple years before lorraina story hit, and we do this in one we take you back to Anita hill. And the William Kennedy Smith rape trial, the Tailhook scandal, and in every instance, anytime that woman or a group of women in the case of Tailhook came forward, and expressed clearly that they had been harassed or assaulted in a sexual nature, and they were discredited vilified the Justice system turns back on them. It was without fail losing proposition for a woman who is coming forward. And so in nineteen Ninety-three when this young girl named lorraina Bob it is now in the middle of all of this. She really didn't stand a chance and skin the media landscape cable TV was blooming. And prominent among the proliferating channels was court TV this story in many ways was the original click bait it had the ultimate headline once that headline about a severed penis grabbed everybody's attention. There was this moral misstep, which was keep the headlines on the penis. The media is absolutely complicit in the misrepresentation of this story. This is a story about a cutoff penis. This a story about a woman who was beaten. She was strangled. She was raped. She was sodomized and a went on for years from your footage. It didn't seem like the attitudes towards lorraina, but universally condemning there was an interesting exchange between Hugh downs and Barbara Walters on their popular show. Do think that men and women see this very differently and men say it is a man being mutilated. I think in the most awful way, a man can imagine many women. See it is a woman abused to such a degree that she struck out at the area that was doing the most time. To the need to cut down on abuse of women and see this act as different from the active many women who are abused who may killer. That way to me one of the most interesting things in terms of the archival footage that we found was the sort of men and women on the street interviews that shows like Jenny Jones or even the nightly news would do. And there were a number of women who did not think that even if he was raped that. There was any excuse. So he wouldn't have sex with anyone else. I think that was the real reason why she did it just flat out didn't believe her. That said there are also many women who did believe to do. Liked to do that. Yes. Yes. If I was raped or wrong. Of course, that's to give back and somebody many women in the media at the time. They were trying to write the stories that would have prop lorraina up more as what she was. But the editors were men you see the cover of time magazine from during lorraina trial, and it's a pig in a business suit. In the headline is our men really that bad. And that is in response to this woman who was on the stand having a panic attack telling you of the way, she was beaten raped and sodomized nineteen Ninety-three op-ed in the LA times by Robin up. Kharian argued that to make lorraina Bob it into a symbol for anything. Other than a sick marriage between two immature angry people is to compromise the legitimacy that has finally been conferred on battered women who strike back in self-defense battered women's syndrome as it was starting to become known was a new phenomenon. And so. So you know, I think part of this is about class and race. If lorraina had been a white rich woman from an affluent area. I don't think that she would have been categorized as that piece in the LA times categorized. Her in January of nineteen ninety four Nancy. Kerrigan was assaulted in Detroit and the media had new tabloid story to focus on the saga of Tonya Harding, and because of the short attention spans some important moments in the Bobbitt story, we're missed how John beat his next two partners. And this John forcibly. Took me out onto the balcony. And push me over the edge of the balcony and was holding onto me by my lower legs. Dangling me over the balcony threatening to drop me would a longer gays on the story of lead to a different assessment impossible to say, I think, but we were not out to unearth anything it was all there twenty five years ago in plain sight, just a fresh perspective in having the facts contextualized, as they should have been in the first place was all it would take. So many strange details that I didn't know the pictures that were available of her abuse. John Wayne Bobbitt's bald faced lying in the face of indisputable evidence. The rush to judging from people from whom I would've expected much better than this given what was available. It was like a collective blindness for the series. He talked to journalists and activists, nurses, and doctors and lawyers who were present for the original story. You talk to lorraina you talk to John. You don't talk to Howard Stern tried to. Yeah. Was and we wanted to talk to Howard Stern. We wanted to talk to Charlie rose. We wanted to talk to Matt Lauer we wanted to talk to Geraldo Rivera. She felt the husband was selfish because he had an orgasm and she didn't. So she grabbed a handful. And sliced I mean, this was one angry woman Howard Stern aside. Those other guys were. Supposed for predatory behavior. And so I'm actually glad obviously that they were exposed. But had they never been exposed. And we interviewed them all they would have given us as their forward facing, you know, line of BS looking at the series and seeing them just in there being the ones who are reporting the news to us speaks far more than anything. They would have said to us that would have been disingenuous. Anyway, Howard Stern though did go some distance and turning into a star. So during the ranch trial again while it is so clear that she has been abused by him. It's even been corroborated by a piece of paper that he had signed admitting to abusing her not to mention all the neighbors who sought many many people John Wayne called into the Howard Stern show. I don't even by this whole thing that he was raping her and stuff. She's not that great Logan. He's got a lot of pimples ex wife. Look that good. I think she needs a little vitamin Bob. It. I I would ask him what he was thinking back. Then had he not heard and seen everything that was clearly available, and I would ask him what he has to say today. Does he feel any sort of remorse for speaking about somebody who was a victim of such Harz in such despicable way? Jordan Peele is the executive producer of this film. I'm curious how he got into that position. If you could tell me a little bit about what his expectations were will Jordan I met in. God, I think it was Tober of twenty thirteen at a screening of my first documentary, it's called loss for life. And it's about juvenile's were serving life without parole, and he expressed really loving the film. And so we connected, and we became friends. We'd have these weekly excursions to go get Chinese food where we would talk about work and life, and whatever and this is before get out. This is. Well before get out, and then it was January of two thousand seventeen when Lorena ahead agreed to do this project with me that during one of those Chinese food excursions, I said, you're never gonna guess who I'm making my next project about lorraina Bobbitt, and he right away was fascinated and had a million questions and admittedly had the same preconceived notions. That that I had had that all of us and had and this is now leading up to get out being released and every time I saw him all he wanted to talk about or ask about was this project. He couldn't believe how many layers there were two at how much depth. There was how how you know he hoped that maybe telling a story about gender and sexual assault and domestic violence that maybe this could do for that what the OJ doc series could do in summation of race. And it was literally get out opening weekend that he just turned to me. And he said what's going on with the Bob project that he'd love to to be a part of it. It's. It's interesting because the media have been such a double-edged sword for lorraina, I'm in since her trial. She's used the media to advocate for battered women. It's giving her life direction. She's willing to tolerate or cut through the jokes to make the most of any platform that she can get like, I'm the Steve Harvey show. Take. I mean, you cut it off by you leave with it. Pillow. So when you wake up. I'm glad that after twenty two years you still laugh about it to tell you into what happened. When woman gets abused by him in. Most people whose lives the media chew up and spit out aren't able to emerge with this kind of strength and agency. Why do you think she was able to do it? I I mean, I truly don't know her level of resilience is unlike any I've ever seen it's not only that she was able to to to make it through this and claim for herself the life that she dreamed of having which by the way is just the simple, quiet life. She didn't want anything extrordinary. She didn't want anybody to know her name. She just wanted to in her own words live the American dream coming here. Finding an honest job falling in love having a family and of story. That's all she wanted. I John Wayne Bobbitt rip that from her. And then the media and the American people in the world at large continued to to pull that even further and further away from her and yet still she was. Unstoppable. She got it. And. That's an extraordinary feat in itself. But to me the thing that is perhaps even more amazing is. She still just so. Her spirit has not been destroyed. There's a purity in eleven to her that I don't know how she's able to possess those things in in light of everything that's happened. This series ends on a pretty bleak note the Raina story hit today. Fox News would take the place of Howard Stern and the twenty four hour news cycle would focus on what she did rather than what he did that we the media, and we the public wouldn't process these events differently now, I think that we still see a great rush to judgment. I think that we can see somebody's life sort of torn apart by tweet that runs wild for a couple of hours. I think that even though we are finally talking about all of these issues. There are so many victims of domestic violence and sexual violence that continued to suffer that far outweighs, unfortunately, any progress that we've made and so people can read into the ending, you know, however, they like, but I think that it should be a challenge to us all to make sure we do better and to try and bring empathy forward as the thing we used to appraise a situation the ending of the. Of the series is the phone number for the national domestic violence hotline. That was something that was important to us. If something is important to lorraina that is the way lorraina has gotten the last word, we are making it very clear. That's what this is about. This is fourth victims. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Joshua row Fe, directed lorraina. Available now on Amazon prime. I spoke with lorraina who goes now by lorraina Gallo about how she's worked to take control of her own story, and redirect the media attention onto a national epidemic at first it was very difficult. But since I've been in advocate against a mystic violence. Listen to the stories of survivors, the victims who are trying to leave. But they're not there yet that give me strength that give me more courage to tell my story to do this documentary. Basically, my story I share with a lot of people within the community because to the shelters and volunteer in as an advocate. I know I have a voice in my goal is do reach out to the victim and survivor, Stu because you know, survivors, go through post traumatic stress disorders as well. It really ignite fire me. Own telling in retail, my story because there is hope in there is help after you're acquitted of malicious wounding you didn't wanna go to the hospital as the law required. But in the end, you're glad you did. Yes. I was confused. I didn't know where they were taking me when I you know hair that I was acquitted by temporary insanity. I wanna go home they've failed that John should've been there. You know, he was an abuser. He needed to be treated, but it did help you. I don't know. I helped me so much because there were questioning me I just finished incredibly, you know, emotionally in intra Matic into rotation which was the trial do trials actually his dryland in my trial my own, and then I was questioning again in again in again, and I it seems like. It didn't stop. But in terms of being quiet on taking care of my own self. It was the start of of the healing process. Yeah. So as we follow your path, you see people who you relied on his friends taking advantage of you. You realize that your parents weren't really in a position to help and became another responsibility. When they came to America the pressures didn't cease, obviously after you left the hospital was there a moment when you just said enough, this is my life, and I will choose to tell it when I choose and how I choose from the moment, I felt that I wasn't alone. I failed security in going to shelters and sharing the stories. So the more I talk the more. I wanted the whole world to actually know what happened and I start telling the story, but it wasn't enough. My whole story when he first came out five years ago, it reach out so wrongly I fell like the media failed me the Justice system failed me fill the society, fill me. And I know that if I'm gonna tell my story again and feel justified even if I go to a comedian show, I didn't mind jokes anymore zone. As I shine the light on domestic abuse in make an awareness against a mystic violence. Then my mission is a noble mission. And you know, basically, I grew stronger and stronger and make me the person that I am today. And I didn't let that or anybody or even John. Define who I am lorraina. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me. And also thank you for the opportunity to lemme talk about the documentary. I think we're gonna help a lot of victims. Just to bring awareness is such an incredible paternity. That was the Raina Bobbitt who now goes by lorraina Gallo, who's the focus of the documentary called lorraina available now on Amazon prime. Coming up. Black history month is not what it was supposed to be. This is on the media. This is on the media. I'm Brooke lead stone. And I'm Bob Garfield February is black history month, which explains the latest national celebration of Frederick Douglas, George Washington Carver Harriet Tubman, and Dr Martin Luther King junior and not a whole lot else. Proclaimed by president Gerald Ford in nineteen seventy six it was an outgrowth of Harvard educator Carter g Woodson's 1926 initiative negro history week. But if black history month has expanded the original by factor four, maybe it has also shrunken it social critic Doreen Saint Felix wrote on the subject last February in the New Yorker, we spoke to her then and she told us that the focus on a handful of familiar faces. Obscures the true measure and the vital lessons of black history. Black history month having been something that was established. Little over forty years ago. We've seen that it's very quickly taken on this character where we pay lip service to very recognizable and often strictly political black figures, there's not really an effort to make anything more than shallow inquiries into what we might call the breadth of black American history. The George Washington Carver is eighth in the exactly I refer, of course, to the only African American scientists who ever lived. Came up with one hundred thirty three uses for the peanut which is not nothing, but perhaps maybe over emphasized. It's very significant that George Washington Carver was a scientist and a food Interpal just when he was and he made many advancements into the way that the American diet actually exists today. He was one of the first people who figured out recipes for pressing nuts into milk, and we're in that fever right now, you know, everybody's like trying to find another kind of milk alternative. And this was someone who antiquated that nearly a century ago. But what happens is when students are taught that someone like George Washington Carver is a Saint of black history. There's a strange political frame that emerges someone like Carver is over emphasized because he doesn't seem dangerous, and that's why his work with the peanut is always assize, George Washington. Carver was actually someone who advocated for black farmers in the south. But that's not something that you here. Because of course, then a suite of. In suit. Why were these Americans poor many start talking about Jim crow, and that's not something that is really encouraged in our general conversations. As it was originally conceived. At least by Joe Ford, I suppose to inspire pride and understanding of shared black history and distinct black history in the United States. It's not entirely useless has it met its principal goal. It is important. And it does affect students of all races to learn that there have been great black American figures. But at the same time, I think it's important for us to remain vigilant about how certain narratives are being flattened and being commercialized often for anyone who was watching the Super Bowl. You might have seen that commercial the Dodge Ram truck commercial, featuring Martin Luther King junior. If you want to be recognized. Recognize who is greatest among you. For those of us who feel very sensitive to the commercialization of his legacy. It's heartbreaking watching a game that has brutalized so many men in many of those men being black. And then again, seeing a commercial that completely decontextualize is the agenda of a figure like Martin Luther King junior. His socialism is something that is like just not mentioned at all during this month or not mentioned at all during right Luther King junior day, which happens the month before. So you're always in this really tenuous spot when you recognize that whatever we get is good, right? Because we get so little, but at the same time, we always want to be pushing for more in for higher quality education. There are those. And I am right now thinking of Morgan Freeman the actor who saying that any effort to discriminate between the American black experience and American history altogether is itself a mistake here. He is in a conversation with the late Mike Wallis on sixty minutes. Black history month, you find ridiculous. You're going to relegate by history. Joe I'm off. Oh, come on. What do you do yours? What would month month? Down. I'm jewish. Okay. Jewish history. There isn't one. Oh, oh, why not you won't want? No, no, no. I don't either. This interview is definitely entered the Lord and turns of Cain tankers old black people and their opinions, obviously, what Freeman is saying it has a grain of truth. Black history is not something that can be relegated to a month. What who's describing segregated history? And that's how he sees it. Of course, there are people like myself who find problems with black history month, but don't necessarily see it as like a second Kanus exercise. It originated in the work of Carter G Woodson who was the second black person to receive a doctorate from Harvard after of course, the father of black history do boys when he and his colleagues were building terminals of African American history when they were establishing associations what they were discussing was that. A subjugated people needs to have its history in order to assert its identity within the present. And that's I think a very radical political notion that has proceeded from the way that we think of buckets three-month, whether it's George Washington and the cherry tree or Lincoln, freeing, the slaves or asna what your country can do for you. We don't typically consume any part of our history in the most sophisticated and multidimensional form is there something peculiar about black history month that makes it more trivialized than the rest of the country's history. I think absolutely. And that is to be crude it is the forces of racism, and how they have contributed to the way historiographer works and America. So one of the clearest examples, I actually experienced this year in terms of how black history is purposefully shaped would be. The case of rec- Taylor Oper mentioned her during the Golden Globes awards speech when she was ab- -ducted by six armed white men raped and left blindfolded by the side of the road coming home from church they threatened to kill her. If she ever told anyone, but her story was reported to the were a young worker by the name of Rosa Parks, became the lead investigator on her case and together, they sought Justice, and Rosa Parks is someone that we have a very high. We actually have a high familiarity with her social contributions, right? But this story didn't really fit with the kind of guy conic image of her deciding that she was not gonna get off her seat in the bus. It's not something that we can fit into acceptable narratives or like etiquette of how we actually think civil rights happen. Should instead of George Washington. Carver we be seeing. See taylor. Should we be seeing Medgar Evers? Emmett till now connects is the main problem here not what is presented. But what is not presented. I think that's definitely a place to begin. But I think also something that needs to be emphasizes a sense of movements and black history because we emphasize so much individuals figures, we don't have a sense of the communities that they've actually come from Doreen. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Having Doreen Saint Felix a staff writer at the New Yorker, I spoke with her in February twenty eighteen. That's it for this week's show on the media is produced by Alana Casanova Burgess, Mike alot, injure laya Fedor. John Henry Hahn ostrich adversity. We had more help from Sandra Allen. And our show was ended by Brooke our technical director Tenet for months in their engineers this week were saying bear. And josh. Executive producer on the media is a production of WNYC studios. I'm Brooke Gladstone and I'm Bob Garfield. Media is supported by the Ford Foundation, the John s and James L Knight foundation and the listeners of WNYC radio.
Tuesday, Feb. 12: Lorena Bobbitt
"Are you hiring with indeed you can post job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash the view. That's indeed dot com slash the view. Subscribe now to our podcast to get hot topics delivered every afternoon and while you're at it rate us in labor review. Pay attention because the view is live. What's the deal? Congress claims. It may have come up with a compromise that will avoid another government shutdown, but has the president already made up his mind. We're building the wall anywhere higher office will Senator comma Harris admitting she smoked pot hurt her presidential campaign. Smokes. Or is it a breath of fresh air? Plus, thank you know, the whole story of the Bobbitt's girl boy falls in love with girl. Boy marries girl girl cuts off boy's penis. Think again, Lorena Bobbitt speaks out live twenty five years after one of the most shocking cases of domestic assault in American history. And what the metoo generation can learn from it. Hats off eggs are on the table with Whoopie. Oh, be huntsmen. Joy, they are sunny hostile and Meghan McCain. Now, let's get things started. To see. Rigors of the Perry. Oh, good. I know lunch dancing. Oh boy. So nice. Need in the middle of. Fortunately, Whoopi still sick. I'm sorry. I. What did we miss you? I hope you're watching and can't wait to get back here. Poor girl. She's has pneumonia, but you'll be back. Yeah. So with just days to go before another government shutdown. A bipartisan deal has been reached in principle. It would give Trump one point three billion for border fencing, which is far short of the fog point seven billion. He wants for his wall. He said he didn't want to hear any specifics before his rally at the border last night. The vibe would be destroyed. You know, so his what he said watch my said that. Progress is being made with this committee. Just say, you know, we're building the wall anywhere. They say that progress. Okay. This morning. The white. This is so avoid the shutdown. You re remember that the the White House said acknowledged that he read the deal, but he hasn't made a decision yet. But you just heard him promises base. A wall on one of his biggest advisors. Fox News host Sean Hannity condemned. The compromise last night. So that was garbage. So less time this happened. He was listening to prison and Coulter prison Limbaugh. And now, it's president Hammadi is he going to end up signing this or not ladies, I'm not sure I mean, you know, this is four days ahead of this potential shutdown because I think Friday, the fifteenth is the deadline and with a swoop of a pen he can sign it into law because it has to actually has to be written into legislation passed both chambers of congress, and then it has to get his approval before Friday. Right. So that's a lot of hoops to jump through. And the bottom line is he can sign it or not and. And I I don't know he's soda moody. And we're curious so if he decides after all of that I'm going to sign it happened. Besides hook people who will suffer yet again from losing money, which party will suffer more Meghan, Abby and shut down. Yeah. I think the country suffered. I said those are the people in the country lost a couple of billion to even when I was at the White House last week. I did send that they were very aware of of the pain. They haven't always articulated as well. I my guess is that he would sign this. But continue the same rhetoric of don't worry. I'm still going to build you this wall. What I saw last night was that his base is still very alive, and well, and that I actually saw more Hispanics there than I've seen in any other of his rallies and his approval Hispanics. Actually, according to one poll up to fifty percent right now and his overall approval ratings are at the highest they've but. That's interesting too. So there's always a bump among state union, though. Right. All right after a shutdown and that surprising that his numbers among Hispanics have not seemed to to move because he won't wanna shut down. So it's quite possible. That would be my guest he won't that you will things I thought it was. They need to ask you is that is he going to call a state of emergency. Which for me is the big question Mark on all of this. Because if he does that it will now set the precedent that one Republicans are inevitably out of power, which politics is cyclical. So it's likely that at some point Trump could lose it. And if he doesn't lose this election, then he could lose another election historically parties tend to switch. What could happen is in a theoretical situation. Like that Democrats could say, you know, what our new green deal is a state of emergency. And now, we need to shut down everything because we don't think this is a sense of emergency. And I think precedent being set is incredibly politically dangerous for a variety of reasons. I think once you open that Pandora's box that to me is what scares me the most all of about all this. Yes, his ratings are up. I actually thought his speech last night at the wall was. It's playing to his base as you know. But I do think that if Democrats take the line of we're going to eliminate ice. We want open borders, which beta said anyone who's four a wall is is someone that is I'm paraphrasing, but as inhumane, and I think it depends how left and how extreme Democrats go on this whether or not people alternately, even who are sort of like more comprehensive immigration people like they gave him anything because Nancy Pelosi said that a wall is immoral but what they're doing is that building fencing roll ready was just hitting. But she said it was immoral. They couldn't give him any this is by partisan. Right. So I don't know that anyone's for open borders. I think what this looks like is barrier funding it looks like running. Oh, Kennedy's running. Yeah. I mean, it looks like a truly bipartisan that's most of the country. I think is in favor of border security security. We can have even forty percent of the condemning wants wall that number jumped I think. From a year before that. So that just shows conversation over the weekend about this though. And I do think most Americans on the left and the right are four hard-line border security. But I I've this question about the wall because coming from a border state, just the logic of it, doesn't it has never I never really understood it because you can't put a wall on the Rio Grande, there's terrain issues. There's issues with people who own property on the border like cattle ranchers, like there's a lot of issues at play one of them being that I actually don't think it's the most effective way to get border security, but I have a friend who's for the wall. And I was talking to them about it. And they said there's so many promises that were made over time that Republicans didn't keep meaning President Bush Republicans when they were in power, and they didn't go hard line. And instead, and it was the example was used people like me wanted DACA one a comprehensive immigration reform, and there's a swath of the country that wants the hardest hard line immigration possible. And thinks that people are coming here to take our jobs, and how you feel about it is a strong intense palpable part of the country that is going to accept nothing less. But. Even if you even if you take the base out of this conversation because I think you're right about that. And they're they want him to keep screaming about the wall. But if you're an independent, you say, I don't really like Trump style, and you watch that speech last night into Meghan sport. If he he drew a very clear line in the sand. And he talked about abortion where we're members of the democrat party upon very left recently the green deal if he can say this is where they are. Here's where I am. I think what he does is. He scares people. And the question is if the election were held right now, I think he's actually been quite effective in that strategy. The problem that I have with the speeches what does abortion and the green deal have to do with the wall. I mean, he's a he's they're talking about the wall had nothing to do with the one campaign rally. Really, it was just fearmongering. But when you talk about the wall, I mean, do Boorda walls work is is the question. I think this study's are pretty clear that they don't necessarily work in terms of stopping smuggling smuggling goes through legal points of entry. We know that I think part of the world where there were they're building it they found something like miles and miles of tunnels that have been. Build. So it's very clear that doesn't work on a violent crime actually ticked up during the border fences construction in at El Paso. Yes. Yeah. And it was going down before they started building. I believe the mayor said it just doesn't work as Ron often legal illegal drugs, often go through through the legal ports of entry. So he also talked about last night. He was talking a lot. He talked about another way. He's breaking tradition by being the first president one hundred and twenty years to not have a dog at the White House watch walk you to dog or the White House lawn. Right. Sort of not I don't know it doesn't. I don't feel good. Here's a little phony phony to me. How about how about a Russian wolf pounds that would work? You know to be a dog lover owner you have to give a little bit. You know, you can't Narcisse have a narcissistic disorder and take care of of a thing. A human sort of to me, it's human almost a doggy who needs to feed them to play with them to to walk them to Cup to make out with them every morning, or is that just make you know. And I don't think he's capable of that. Anyway, so good during when he was married to I von ah. They had a dog named choppy choppy, and I've honor wrote in her book choppy didn't like him and he didn't like chopping. Oh, really? Oh, I didn't he's being authentic there. And the crowd says would be a phony it's the complete opposite though, like the Mitt Romney syndrome because he would get that perfect dog. Didn't he put his dog on the roof? I like this actually this is part of the reason that he got that Trump got elected was moments like this where it's like, I'm not person don't I'm not gonna all kinds of someone that doesn't like animal, honestly, someone that doesn't like animals I made some. When that doesn't like chickens that really makes concern hardly mystery. Oh, yes. All right. We do of course, black history. Today's black history month F Y on honors Dr John blue for the first black astronaut to travel never in space. He was born in Philadelphia. Decorated Vietnam veteran who forty four. Badminton before getting in aerospace and veneer ring at the air force institute of technology. Fishery became a NASA astronaut back in one thousand nine hundred seventy nine and nineteen Eighty-three boarded the challenger space shuttle to make history as the first black astronaut experience space travel. Dr blue Ford would complete three more missions logging in six hundred eight hours spent in space before retiring in nineteen ninety three he was inducted into the international space hall of fame in nineteen ninety seven. No one. You do get this information now. Okay. When we come back. Let's talk about Senator Kamla Harris who apparently made it interesting admissions as the Br on the breakfast club yesterday. We'll be right back. Okay. So there's a big election coming and the candidates are lining up to run for. Got to run for. Can't do impossible when we come together. It is raining candidates here on news, different views. This country is ready for gay prison. Only one way to find out. Thank all one thing in common the comes here because this is the best place to in this epic year ahead. Anybody who's anybody who wants to make it to the next level in politics to come on this show because this is the place to be her Republican wanna make news come on the show. That's your view on ABC. Mater, Lorena Bobbitt is alive and looking back on taking matters into our own hands. In one of the most infamous domestic assault cases ever. You gotta talk about common la-, Harris. She's a democratic presidential candidate comma Harris sat down with the breakfast club radio show yesterday. And she calms surprise some people by making this admission watch. There are a lot of reasons why we need to legal smokes. I have. Diane HALE, I dated I didn't. It was a long time ago. But if it was legalized all too. Medicinal would you? Do it. Listen, I think that it gives a lot of people joy. And we. She sounds like. Geez, high right there. Always get the giggles. So is that gonna put some voters off will they appreciate the honesty, and it might be noted that when she was a prosecutor, you might know this. She was not for this. Right. Yeah. I mean, you when you're prosecutor you're enforcing the laws on the books, and I think it was in two thousand ten she, you know, she voiced support for medical marijuana legalization five years later, but she prosecuted these kinds of cases as die. But I think her evolution on the views sort of mirror. What's going on in our country because I think we have over thirty states, right? That have thirty-three states have legalized medical marijuana and ten states plus Washington DC up now legalize marijuana for recreational use for dolts over twenty one. I mean, I'm you know, someone that still feels I'm not I'm certainly on board with medical marijuana. I'm not so sure about Asia marijuana. But there's just been a real change. I'm pretty live along the feel. I actually think we should legalize. Marijuana. A lot of people feel I think we should across the country. I I've always struggled with the fact that you can go and you can drink as much alcohol as you wanna get completely obliterated. But then you get caught with marijuana happens. And then people would get along a right know, but a lot of people say, it's you know, it's it's a gateway to two other drugs. I I don't know that I feel that way. My my sense is we're going to see down the road like gay marriage. I already see the writing on the wall. We're going to get there at some point. We just a matter of time, and you know, how long it's gonna take to get there. But I I'm in favor of it doesn't bother. There's just so much drinking of children under the age of twenty one and drinking and driving. I just wonder how how quickly the law can catch up with people driving. And driving. Yeah. Driving stone and p and kids using marijuana under the age of twenty one. How are we going to deal with that? I heard what I wanna turned of legalizing it to for a lot of different reasons. I I think people I do think it brings joy to people. I think the medicinal benefits, especially when it comes to brain cancer killer. I don't understand why it's still stigmatized especially in a medical way when we can help people children with epilepsy. There's studies that is really helped bluffs. He's so I would love to stigmatize it the political aspects of karma communists, because we interview is. She's cutting a weird lie. She said she smoked listening to to pock and snoop Dogg. She graduated from Howard University in nineteen eighty six and finish law school nine hundred eighty nine two pox debut album came out in one thousand nine hundred one snoops in nineteen ninety three. She's either smoking marijuana after the time she said, she is or she was listening to different albums or she's just missed remembering. And this is getting some play online. And it was the thing. I would say to to Senator Harris when she came on here because I was. I was really impressed with her authenticity. Isn't Hillary Clinton was a beta test for not trying to be too cool. Don't try and be too cool. You're already cool. You already have a really interesting background. You have a really interesting career so far just try and fix our country ailing California, which people why bring up new dog and to pocket something heart where I just I don't really know what its relevance. Hillary said we're saying fans remember that moment. That's interesting minded me. That's awesome. My back on a radio show as obviously, but don't feel to why why not always if you're a politician will that happened years ago. It's like now that they're in public office in ever do anything that could be remotely seen as bad when it's like, yeah, we're real people. Just be honest about we'll say I think that Trump has lowered the bar soon. That it's not gonna matter their smoke some pot during two pot or during biggie or during beyond say or doing anything last night or last night. It just doesn't much matter the age of Trump. I think marijuana should be mandatory, frankly. When Phil his out when he's out of office, then they can resend the rule. Yeah. Don't become back. Why why one Hollywood actress says that raising a child to be famous is child abuse. We'll be right back. Oprah's still in effect at view your deal dot com. We partnered with vendors or at least tap off her latest batch of favorite things, so get to view your deal dot com. Now. Come back. So actress Christina Ricci has been a star since she was nine years old, but she claims trying to make your kid famous as child abuse, quote, unquote. She had a four shows a four year old son. And she said that he can decide if he wants to act when he becomes an adult. So, you know, and she also says that she enjoyed all of those years being, you know, the little Queen and everybody loves you it cetera. But I wonder about how good an idea this is for child. What do you think? I don't know that I would I decided never to do anything like that. I just think the the the pressure said your children, they mentioned it, and I kind of shut that down. I don't know. You know, I I don't mind them taking theater classes, they both play to instruments. I'm really I think it's wonderful to play instruments. I think theater is a wonderful outlet. I think it gives you a lot of confidence. They've they both done plays. But I just think doing it commercially. You know, you have to deal with the rejection, and your objectified so much. I think if they ever decided to do it as adults I would be fine with it. But she'll trial to actually ask the parent and says I want to be famous or does the parent basically pushed the kid into it? And I don't wanna more fame. Those more now than they used to because of all the stars. We've seen on YouTube, and they see how easy it is at a young age and reality TV, I've actually heard more and more from like, my friends and their kids that are getting to a nature they understand like I'm going to be famous too. And that's and they see how easy it is to obtain the issue that I've seen with some child actors like Michael Jordan, we've had on the show someone that. A good example. But it's went everywhere with him, and it was a big influence on. But there there aren't enough examples for me to say, they started really young famous. I've seen so many families take advantage of the kid being famous, and and that worries me I grew up doing musical theater, but my husband, and I we say to each other. If our daughter wants to to act, what do we do? I think you want to let them express themselves. But I think we'd be really cautious to in today's environment until they're me nervous. Yeah. What do you think? I don't know. I don't really know any kid actors, and I don't know any actors, but they get all depends on the parent and the situation and the set I guess you'd have to be I try not to judge other people's experiences, but Christina Ricci was a really famous tr-. I remember from casper the friendly ghost and the Addams family. So you know, I mean, she went through it. So I'll take our word for for. Adults to take rejection and criticism and jealousy. So you can imagine how uninformed you're just an unformed person in many ways when you're a child having reached adulthood, even in your twenties. Horns at the soccer games, you know, on the sidelines and not just that you'd drives you nuts with mental of the game. Then the kid is we'll know all the big that's one thing. But even apparently. Think of you kids. How would they like it? If they went up for an audition ten times, cause you know. That's what happens right. I've seen. I did. We're told. No, yeah. Commercial editions? There were kids. They're like twenty-five thousand kids there. I'm one kid's going to get it. The rest of them got to go home and say, I didn't get it. I think it's very hot on it must be. Yeah. There was one goal. I addition for and my sister Lydia dish for it. And my sister didn't get it. And I did. And it was the hardest thing for my mom because she participates score member. And what do you do as a parent to help you? She wanted to be excited for me. But then she wanted to be there for lady, but maybe those are emotions that you you need to experience at some point in your life. Five years old given a little few years. I don't like it now at this. I feel like it either. Right. I don't like it either not say no to walk. Okay. We'll be right back. Five years after her shocking after revenge does marina baba regret. What she did to her ex husband, John, Wayne Bobbitt, and has she spoken to him since she's live on the view next. 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You may want to get some of your children out of the room for this segment because it will contain some graphic subject matter, the domestic assault case of lorraina, and John Wayne Bobbitt is one of America's most notorious true crime stories and a new docu series called lorraina proves that twenty five years later. It's still just as shocking take a look. This was a modern love story way meets girl boy falls in love with girl. Boy Mary's girl girl cuts off boy's penis. The interest of huge court TV is bringing the proceedings into millions of homes. Be like, that's crazy. This story was here is just everybody was looking to get an interview guilt or innocence will come down to whom the jurors believed when he do to make her do something like that. And here to answer that question and a lot more. Please welcome lorraina Bobbitt. I do want to know that we just introduced you as the Raina, Bob it. But you go by lorraina Gallo now, which is your media name that. Okay. That's it has been twenty five years, which I can't believe since you cut your husband's penis off with a kitchen knife. And can you remind everyone why you did it and why you are choosing to speak about it. Now. First of all thank you for inviting me here everyone. Sure. And I wanted to. Tell my story twenty-five years ago have happened and twenty five years ago. My story got lost in tabloids. And it was just basically a big joke. And there's no joke about domestic violence. It's nothing a joke about sexual assault. And that's why I'm here in. Also, I am here because I believe that there's no one day passes by that I see in the newspaper that have women gets rape of women. He's assault that woman has gone into through the mystic violence. It's nothing is being done about it. And as a mother I have a child in eventually she's going to go to college. And I want my child to feel safe. I want my child to take a stand and said, this is no I'm not gonna take this anymore and law needs to be changed in the conversations about domestic violence have to be taking more seriously. And I've seen the documentary. It's a four hour documentary for parts. I don't think our audience has when you say you have to why did you do it? The documentary. No, why didn't you? And I am thinking why did you cut his peanut sauce? Are you saying because he was violent towards you? Because he assaulted you. It's not a question about why I did what I did. Obviously, you can see I wasn't in my right mind. I wasn't psychologically normal. You know, I went into this bazaars the craziness call insanity. And I was you know. Acquitted by no by recent off in Senate temporary insanity. So that's no this is not a question about why I did it or you know, how I did. It is about is shows how how. Psychologically traumatic a victim of the mystic violent is in. Our Shirley shows in the documentary. How brutally the perpetrators are. Well, you were both alternately found not guilty you of malicious wounding by reason of temporary insanity. He was found not guilty of marital sexual assault, and John Wayne Bobbitt is actually also interviewed in the series. And we reached out to him for comment, and he denied all allegations of marital sexual assault. So I see that do might have been upset by the comedians making fun of the story. Right. Does. Right. It's nothing. It's not a it's not a joke domestic violence. It's not Joe the joke was actually not about the domestic violence. I remember this very well from my own passed and. Women responded to the story because they felt that a woman I mean, this is not a pun, but took something into her own hands. And took care of this abuser in a most violent way. I I'm assuredly only two women have tried it since your story came out. I understand. So that was with comedy came from not that in the abuse. It was at the fact that here. Hey, look at this woman. He's not taking it. And that's what it was about you saying, so maybe that makes you feel a little better. I don't know. Well, again, I mean, you know, I understand that, you know, humor is in my story. There's elements in worry, what's the humor to you? The fact that people are still connect with the fact that they can see a man losing his masculinity and part of the, you know, for for women or for for society. We tend to actually you know, to relies all the shocking, I think for me is to to bring. Humoring to it and a Spar of human. We we actually, you know, introduce humor into everything to our lives. So I understand that. But you know, the fact that the whole story my story was lost into tabloids. And it was made a Big Joe gain people actually didn't see domestic violence in into a matter of of problem that we have in society, and it is a social epidemic. So that's right. That's what the the matter was. So looking back after everything you went through, which we all know as a lot. Do you regret doing? What you did you call it the incident, which was obviously cutting off his genitalia to regret doing it. How could you regret something that wasn't planned? I mean, I I was not a wife that this going to say, okay. I'm gonna wake up today. And then I'm going to cut my husband, you know, sexual Oregon, and that was no plan. Again, I was psychologically traumatized by him. You know, one of the misconceptions that people have about domestic violence is that is only physical. But is actually psychologically is dramatic is is motion is economic and domestic violence does not discriminate does not discriminate gender. There's a lot of members of the LGBTQ plas- that have going through domestic violence and going through the mystic violence right now. And you know, a lot of women in men, but we talk about women because if statistically there's more women affected by domestic violence than men, and you still. Don't even remember doing it. We're living in a different time. Now, you know, the past few years of this metoo movement that have given voice to two women that have been through abuse that are speaking publicly, and I think feeling more accepted by society. Do you think people will watch this and hear your story now and wished they treated you better during that time will they think about all of this differently today. Yes. Definitely things have changed. Obviously. I applaud the movement of the metoo movement and time sop, which is actually very good. You know that actually get give us a voice give the people even more strong give the victim of ways and say, you know, what there's no time to be silent anymore. It's time to talk about it in eventually in. Hopefully, I'm glad that to see them. There's more women in congress now that we are going to work together in lost. They're going to change even more of to protect the victims and women. You know, I couldn't believe this John Wayne Bobbitt still tries to keep in touch with you. He sends you love letters signed your eternal flame. I'm assuming you haven't written back. No. I don't read him back. And what did that? The abusive. Why does it's being abusive still? Yes, the spot of the abuse. Because a lot of people actually think that domestic violence is is so physical, but it is control is about controlling the victim is about overpowering the control about others that can and that is. Let us he's trying to control you from afar. Yes. And even even for Facebook, you know, as well he dragged me. As manipulate you relations like, wow, yes. But you're not, you know, I'm not engaging into his friendships. Our thanks to the Raina Bobbitt her for part docu series. Lorraina will be available on Amazon prime video this Friday. You must you must watch this. We'll be right back. This week. The view anything goes with rebel Wilson. But the doctors are in the house, I Dr Ruth lights things up as only she can and tops all things love, then the good doctor hits the view on ABC. Tomorrow the hilarious Revo Wilson on how she's turned in the romantic comedy on its head and whoever wins top dog at the Westminster kennel club. Doug show is doing a victory lap live on the view. Welcome back. Okay. We swept time from how topics today so Cardi bay made history Sunday night by becoming the first female solo Rambaud best album, Grammy and get this that very same night that she was when her her EMMY, but what does it Grammy Hemi? Sorry. I'm starting to get his low blood sugar now. Yeah. Okay. Higher husband offset released a video to promote his group's new album. The video was of Cardi B giving birth to their child. This is supposed to make me listen to the music. I don't see the connection I here. And what would you do if your husband might help and posted that of me, he would can so much more pain than I was after I swear I am one of those people that's very private. I think we have a photo. There's a before I'll smiles then there's an after. But between period might not even myself. I didn't even fail them. Go back and see that. Yeah. In the movie. Yeah. But you know, I'm not gonna get into their marriage and their relationship because it seemed like she when she gave her speech was thanking him for helping her get through being pregnant and her album. So I I that's my opinion on private. But they can I was gave him permission. Right. I'm assuming he didn't do that Donald saying she. Yeah. Around. I think it's a very private special. Mom said are here. That was my assumption. Right. I mean, if not that's not gonna end maybe she wanted to help him launch his album know, you're not at your best when you feed her in the stirrups, or when you went, oh, I wanna live baby is coming out of your body. I mean, it's not lying. Yeah. And you want to share that with the world must everything be shared. Yeah. Everything must be shared. It's the those are the time where you held by women to get a mirror in the delivery room. I was I was told by so many people that really freaked me out. And I was like that's not something that I wanna see. Now, it's such a miracle. Don't get me wrong. But like, it's physically. Yeah. Man. He was so into it, and he was digging it. Yup. Cardi B. I really got serious Zayed about having to not push out one or two. Yeah. That's that's a lot. So so Meghan, your grandma turned a hundred staff, but anything else. To non who just turned one hundred seventh and she asked him tips on living. So how did she get two hundred? So I went to my nana's one hundred seven birthday party over the part. He goes on that one. Incredible. And she is such a light in my life. And she's very pretty she's so pretty doesn't look hundred seven at all. And she's the true matriarch of the McCain family and her best friends, Greta van Susteren, I don't know if you remember her from Fox News, and she has lunch with her once a week, and I need to start having lunch with her more often than I know, she watches the view, and she said adventure closeness with family being politically active and she used to be friends with Amelia Earhart, which is something I just out recently. I think we should honor women that come before us an honor women who have lived such a long life and. We enjoy and I always agree on behave. Ageism, and I I learned so much from the older woman in my life. And I'm just at this specific time in our family. She's such a beacon of strength, and I love her so much just tell you very much one hundred seven I hope I won't be still on this show. On this show. One one out we have another. We have another birthday. Celebrate today is our hairy hysteric Monroe. Today. We see. Putting in a name dip into the Muller investigation. Minden re on your favorite podcast. We'll be right back. Welcome back walked bus to animated movie. Ralph Briggs the internet and the thirtieth anniversary edition of the Disney. Classic. The little mermaid both available on digital. Download members of our what ends I'll getting them. I have not to have a great day. Everyone take a little time to enjoy the Bill. Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash the view. That's indeed dot com slash the view.