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Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast. Act as fundamental attack. Man, hoods close crying. I said I don't want to have sex. I pick up the knife to I'm gonna do something to him right now where he'll never do that to me again. Got him. She does not say that for network television. She came off as this sweet little girl sweet little innocent girl, doesn't cut a man's penis off. What quite a story. Don't want people to understand the whole story at the first here. Here. Me too to we've do look at Lorena Bobbitt Jerry differently. The plenty of women in abusive relationship, there were all these feminists. Protesters going snip snip snip if she had ended up to stabbing him to death to and never heard lorraina, Bob. That's been. Good evening. I'm David Muir, Amy robot? And this is an all new to our twenty twenty tonight. The new interviews right here as we dive into one of the most notorious cases of our time lorraina in John Wayne Bobbitt, and David I sat directly across from John Wayne Bobbitt, he is insistent. He wants to get his side of the story out you decide for yourselves. Mark. Mark, John, you can do without your classes. Question. I what was the question here. The questions I. Because that's the whole words. Doesn't work out. Well for me at all. Would you believe I want people to understand this story? Also. And that's and this is what the story the cut. The whole story was a cover up. No cookies arena, getting author charge was the big cover up. Okay. Go for it. We'll start were you wanna start? What was the cover up? Talked about stories of the year. The case has struck a nerve details of a marriage gone Visser could only get more attention. If they were starring in a TV movie. We'll go away continues to being published. It really took the world by storm Twenty-four-year-old manicures from Venezuela is accused of severing the penis of her husband twenty six year old John Bobbitt while he was sleeping from anyone heard about this story. It was what because it's a mythic arenas act was fundamental attack on a man's manhood. It caught everyone's attention. First thing everyone wanted to know why what drove her to it. Describing what happened what people are two different things. Defense. Check him out with that he raped and abused her. Feel humiliated. More to have to. This. Seems to be the simplest of narratives. Because she cut overseas. It took on live Joan. Joan. Story that has fascinated and divided America. It all comes down to who you believe. Do you believe him or do you believe her just doesn't seem right? What she did about when he was beating her up and raping her no one cared. Do think that men and women see this very differently. Many would say it is a woman abused to such a degree that she struck out at the area that was doing her. The most harm the symbolic power of that act remains to this day. Frightening and alive and real kind of the ultimate. Violence in the battle of the sexes goes on every single day. Well, sure, there was a battle sexiest going on. Then as there is. Now, you know, not that might we are in the middle of two times up when is this going to add? What's changed? It's the story that's making headlines in every hometown newspaper. Couldn't believe it never heard of it before. And then, of course, the fact that lorraina threw it out a window. I always tell my friends make sure you're sleeping on your belly. Vietnam argument with your wife. Thing to do. The baba case flirted with low culture disarmed high culture, so you find references to the Bobbitt's and Philip Roth novel of in the lyrics. See? Could be worse. Could cut off your penis way. Sleeping toss it out the window moving car. There's always that can almost put the story in terms of time in the middle of book, the book ends being the. Amy Fisher, Joey buttafuoco story on the other side, six months later after the story was oh Jay in the white Bronco and right in the middle lorraina, John. Been twenty five years. But even today, I imagine if you walk into a store and somebody your credit card, you say your name, you get a reaction shocked or startled. While you're the guy. You're that guy. Yeah. Let's go back to the beginning. Tell me where you grew up there. You're falls New York. Raise their. Well, it's three taking away from my mother. His mother was a drug addict living on the street and not capable of taking care of his father pretty much disappeared didn't really know his father, and he and his two brothers were taken in by their aunt and uncle who already had four boys mother couldn't take care of us three shell mental breakdown. Let me ladies tried to take care of all three of us. But she cut. My name is brought by role, and I'm John Wayne rummage, bro. Chime is actually my cousins. But my parents took him in at a young age. So if you were to ask me again, who is John John, brother? That's the way we were raised. Your uncle and your Antic you in. How would you describe your childhood big family get togethers? Church sunday. Their love in your home. Fighting. But does the one that break it up? The peacemaker. What made you decide to want become a marine friends? Join the brains in join. Something I want to do. And it was that a singles dance that you met lorraina court ball passing. Senior officers club. The Wayne Bobbitt is born in Ecuador. She has raised in Venezuela. She becomes the sod with America, the America, you see on television and our movies. I remember she said she watched the Flintstones and even the Flintstones had microwave, and they were just middle class people. And that represents something to her. An exclusive interview with Tom Jarrell, Lorena Bobbitt. The woman who did the unthinkable give some answers have this incision to come to America is is just like a big opportunity. This is going to be the beginning of something to want to come to this country. And she does a student visa she enrolls in a community college. Lorenzo always talked about her American dream, and John when you saw him in those days in his uniform and stuff gave fit the profile of the good looking. Marine. The random eats Jonah dance. The way lorraina tells the story and there's tremendous physical chemistry. Find some very handsome. He was very nice guy. And we started dating, and that's how I really Fallon. Well with him. She was swept off for. Tell me what you thought when you first saw lorraina. The friend and sorrow over there. She looks shyness. And when opener Nasser and so. She can she can speak English. Couldn't understand what she was saying at the time. So you'll here's my number. Lorraine a- said he was an absolute gentleman. There was no indication of any violence or behavior toward her while they were courting, what was your dream at that point point. It was more like. I have a house like a, you know, doesn't have to be or something have a little bit and and have children. And of course, have a husband. They talked about getting married that marriage rushed when her preen card or visa, whatever it was running out. He tells me that the random propose to him and that it was in a restaurant or mother was present. She was crying suggesting that we get married because expired, so this was a marriage of convenience and not one of love. Did you love her? Thought he did of presented chemistry is great. It's world wind. It's fast and John poster pressure. The bullet. I guess married. Both John and the rain agreed that the marriage went into the toilet fast. US like, I guess different. After we got married lorraina has said that you were physically abusive. She says that John essentially became monster. After he said, I do. When it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste you need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast. That's why you need indeed dot com. Get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast. Happened in Manassas Virginia. I have made people here is a suburb of war from DC. Is now point five years later much much larger. But at the time, a nice bedroom community type place does have the advantage of being next door to the first battlefield of the civil war. Used to be known for civil war history. Now, it's known for the Bobbitt's. How did you feel on your wedding day? You remember house happy? We had discussed rest up and went down Justice peace and had a small winning. The first time I met her. She came off as this week little yellow Venezuelan girl me. Oh, no. They're happy. Sweet little innocent girl doesn't cut a man's penis off. I never really expect to have a perfect Mary. But I knew this things the if you you know, you can compromise and you can you cope? Started off fine while John Johnson the marines. I think the problem they've all his up. Nineteen ninety one John gets discharged from the marine court of he is kind of out a steady paycheck, and he scraps and he tries and he's not a deadbeat. But he he seems to have trouble kind of holding down jobs. The rain is the main breadwinner. Lorraina doing for a living. She's working as a nanny for Jan? Yeah. Working for the Sean to nails. Of suty was a businesswoman. Run the male cutter Janna was some maybe a little bit of a mother figure at that point. Learning ahead. Oftentimes seemed to have cried on Janice shoulder and Channa seems to have tried to protect her. She says she loved him and she wanted her marriage to work, and she was gonna do anything to try to make her marriage work Janna was successful in had kind of a swanky house, and she had panty cars, and she had a boat and John fails that their troubles began when the rainy began hankering after these kind of material possessions, and that an American dream till lorraina. We started off the studio apartment with which we could afford. We were young we should have worked away up. But no, she wanted more more more. So no from studio to luxury apartment than we had tuna cars. Theory outside your means way above your what would you be fighting about? The radio stupid stuff, you know, young just but over things that we shouldn't have been fighting over she was stubborn selfish. And she wanted things away. They were couple who were tempestuous they were impetuous in their loves they were impetuous in their jealousies. They were impetuous in their fights. How soon did you feel? He began getting beyond speaking and becoming physically abusive to you. Like a moment after we. Yes. Yes. He was driving and the highway his start driving and driving very fast, very fast. And I was scared. And I said I'm scared. Please drive. I in I hold us too. Well, so I can go stray and he punch me. Yes, really hard. I was crying. I was very shocked. Somebody hit me like that. Especially from my husband. Somebody that I marry him. And I loved him. Astonished by that because that was something that was she was unfamiliar with in the relationship leading up to the marriage. She'd never seen that side of John. There was a big jealousy factor that set in. She knew John was good looking women might come onto. She got upset with anybody. Talk to me, girl, girl girls direction. Get. She she punched you how often did she hit you? To get mad two sisters, very jealous person, very possessive want anybody around me. Always afraid someone's dignity me away for. Prize them. No this man, this memory, and this is my ticket. He said to me every time that he was mad at me. He said once a marine soul was a marine. I remember. One time I was in lane into floor his actually chocking meat. Panos crying and. I was. Couldn't breed. Llerena has said that you were physically abusive to her. Turn things around like say, he's physically abusive to me. She never went to the hospital ever had anything seriously wrong with y'all let turmoil. It wasn't like we're out to kill each other. You never fought back try to to do or straighter. Not the inter- the pushing shoving upon cheer punch there. And then she said it carried over into the bedroom. That he seemed to be very stimulated excited by violence sex. I mean to sex. Hey, told me that. He was that kind of sexual sex for sex excited him and. Which is cry. Like, so many of the accusations fly back and forth between John Lorena? This. One is hard to reconcile John is he was ever excited by violence sex. One not that left him early on. When you saw this terrible situation. You were in I feel like I don't wanna fell into the marriage. I'm Catholic, and I don't believe in divorce. I will like to work it out. What came between was even more poison toxic in a relationship that was already all bar. Bar. Talks about her marriage with John the nightmare from beginning to end. It's actually very hard to imagine how they laughed at for years together heard me in my lip was bleeding and bruises. John maintains that he never hit her. But he admits that he might have kind of pushed her a little or that when he was restraining her. He might have been rug. Hit me. You're gonna end up getting some type of injury like a bruise or battling. What's your definition of spousal abuse? Could be put your home. All verbal abuse calling. Somebody is lot or or tramp. Did you do any of those things? In moments of anger as you push. Your shovel. We fought. But that's not spousal abuse. This fighting each other, you know. You said you were abnormally strong. Of course, I wouldn't here because I heard of villa bed. I try to strain marks when you were stranger. Of course. I mean, I mean have Martin me, but I fly them. I'm sure there was more problems screaming yelling your arguments. You know? Let's just the way that you'll rain was. I seen her him with the four command. He said that she came after. If that happened, then I'm sure it happened before. Call nine one each other quite frequently. You know, he calls it on her. She called it on him. He said that the police will no listen to me because. We're married. We've responded to complaints of domestic violence at their residents about half a dozen times in the past few years. Only in one instance were charges brought we arrested John charged him with the song battery, and he got a cross warned against lorraina and had her charged with a song battery one of their charges with no processed and the other one dismissed. Actually, very little difference in what they said we analyze had a history of abuse of conduct to treat each other gets into trouble apart from John. There were a couple of incidents that were very important to John and place the great deal of stress. Not just the old occasions. Fighting but what they were fighting about. He found that she went and shoplifted. She stole a couple of dresses from Nordstrom. She was caught she had to do community service. The more grievous offence was while working Janet she embezzled over seven thousand dollars in John furious about that. Lorraina will say that she did these things because money was such an issue. John wasn't pulling his weight. Her boss at the nail salon figured out that money was missing and made her pay it back with interest with a pretty high interest is I remember, so I guess they worked it out between the two of them. But it's not as though lorraina had nothing. You know, this unblemished pass. She Gent Masudi stealing all that money. She knew the do that especially this somebody we brought her in give her job better. And we're. In the course of your marriage. Did you become pregnant by John? Yes. I did. I was very excited because. I mean, I wanted to have a child remember? He said that I. I would not be able to. The rice child. For some reason. I said, I think I will be a wonderful mother. Anyways, I suggested what should we? She wasn't happy about it. But you know, we can do. Will said that I have to something about it. And I said, what do you mean? Suggested so long. The people have. Abortion. So in Kleenex and things like that. And I was so sad. I just couldn't believe what he was saying. Do you have the abortion for him? Yes. You felt you would lose him without it. I don't want to have a child without a father what in the world. She's married. Why would she warned abortion? Catholic girl. Good girl. She never recovered from the trauma of an abortion that she wasn't completely on board for and she carried. The terrible trauma for her the guilt from our culture from who. She was person of having an abortion right up into the moment that she picked up that night. How often did you say no to his sexual advances. Did he physically and sexually abuse you clean? It was every time. He will hit me who will just try to force me into the sex. Again. Did you equate this with ripe? As you knew the word. Yes. In many occasions. I said, I think you're right, ping me. This is not would you supposed to do to me? Idea of marital rape, just didn't connect. I mean, you sit I do doesn't that mean you're gonna be in the days just before the attack that cutting? She was falling apart in ways that she was sharing. She went to a neighbor just before this happened. I had talked to her, and she she said, you know, what was happening to her raping her. And she said rape. I had seen literature on that domestic I gave it to articles that. She was beginning at worked to have problems. I mean, she's been doing nails for years. She does a beautiful jobs about a couple of weeks before this happened. I was getting complaints. I never had complaints before. She was shaking. Wakeup shakings, caring and have nightmares. So. I went to the doctors they have the vice me to get a protective order. That went. To to get a protective order. Because. I was scared and I didn't want it to be heard by him again. Tensions are building building building in this marriage. They said which did to me was was not fair you hurt me. She was having a major depressive episode. She was having a breakdown had just gotten to be too much for. Push me away. And he said, leave me alone. I don't wanna hear anything shis Leumi alone. A woman at the. She goes to the kitchen for that glass of water. And there she spots that knife. The day before the attack. She went to the police. She went to the police, and she said, I I wanted protective order against my husband. And they said, okay, we'll sit down this take a little while. We're gonna process it. We're going to get this thing done. We want to protect you. And she was not able to wait. He told me it will be ready three hours later, and I said. I really want to wait three hours of things to do. Johnny. When the week prior said, look, this is not working out. And so I'm going to get a divorce. Hitter. Like a ton bricks to his crying begging. She's she didn't believe in divorce, but says points, I mean. What's the point St. Mary happy? I think at that point in time was win Llerena really realized that her American dream was about. I think that that kind of settling off. There was some discussion about who would take over the apartment. He said he would breeze friend down would live with him. And she was to move out the day before the incident takes place, a friend of John's proper Johnston from buffalo comes and stays with the couple. Well, since you know, your hair. Let's go. Let's go hang out before you around. We were head drinks. Hang out people dying. Ziying late morning. You hit home. When he returned I was asleep. And he worked me because. Slim that were. The last thing she did that night kits literature on that she had ran that night and put it on the nightstand. And go on to sleep. And he comes in loaded to the gills without Kahal, and he decides to crawl in bed help himself because. That's my wife. She is sleep. Did you see her at all when you got in shoes in bed blender there? No and fold the clothes bet. Did you speak at all Raina before you went to sleep Saana sleep? Did you have sex with her that night? Listen, some pending going on that night. But no sex. Six I remember her trying to play with me. Asleep in those acidic and can respond to her advances are sexually or verbally. Stop went to bed. When did you know that he was awake? He Trump and me and. He his star to grabbing my arms really tight like before. He always do. I end. So I said I don't want to have sex, and I was trying to push him. But I couldn't. If forced me into I heard my. On Wor was reaping off. In was just fighting it psychos finding everything. So you say she was trying to have sex with you, and you were tired that the pretty big from her saying, you forcibly tore off her underwear and raped her. Everything was done my sleep sexual advances the talking deep sleep. But you say you didn't ripped anybody in my life is it possible to trying to have sex with her and she didn't wanna have sex happen. I didn't know what transpired there. Psalter? And and she's just laying there thinking not again. She went into the kitchen to get a glass war. She saw the knife. So many things coming into my mind. I I don't know how to describe things like. From the very first hit me. Things about the abortion. No, so many things when he was turning me when he was reading me up when he has forced sex with me, everything it just came so fast. This guy comes in invades her space invades her body. Does it again? She said. I'm going to do something to him right now where he'll never do that to me again. Pick up the knife. And I went back to the two bedroom. I took the sheets off and. Got him. Did he scream out? Did he say anything or did he reach for the knife? Everything which is fast. Described as the silence scream, he didn't say anything when I sprung up, and I was bleeding as blamed pressure that mealy thought it was about a horror movie, it was a nightmare. But it was real reality horrified. Terrified. She flees the apartment in her left hand, she has the penis in her right hand, she has the knife. Drives off into the night. Still holding his severed penis. My name's Jim sane urologist and enjoyed a very quiet life at Prince William hospital in Manassas Virginia and all that changed for me June twenty third the nineteen ninety three. The phone. My bedside woke me up in the middle of the night. And really all I knew about this in the way into the hospital. Was it a penis had been happy -tated and the organ was missing? What's the first thing? You did when you woke up clear thoughts and replied pressure, and I want to wait to tell to the hospital. You were yelling or screaming like held me. We have to go to the hospital right now. No. He was Susie. Saw the blood everywhere. He was going crazy hospital there within ten minutes. Fucking hospital. Doctors looking at me me arrest. Your vision comes in and looks at John's hands and wrists and says there's no cut there. And of course, Jon there was no there, and he goes, where's all the blood coming from John points down below nothing more than a shoot covering, and then she fell away to reveal a missing penis. Describe the look under doctor's face when who showed him what lorraina had done drop. Was a kind of out of how to potty experience. It really takes your breath away to to see this kind of disfigurement. He was very calm through all of this is if he didn't even understand the the extent of this injury. And with the implications of it might be, and I knew everything will be okay. How I just a lot of faith. God. Always need lost about a third of his blood volume. I knew I had to get a microphone surgeon. They said, you know, we've got this guy here as penises been cut off. And he come down and basically put it back on said. Okay. You have the penis. No. Meanwhile, the Raina has been in the apartment with really a knife in one hand and his penis and the other and she goes downstairs to her car. I always tried to figure out like how she opened the door cheap transfer from one hand to the Elliot how did that work. I don't know. But she gets into the car and starts the car, and according to her she's driving along, and she suddenly kind of realize that she has this penis in her hand or hands are full to drive this way. I see it. I remember I could make a turn. Because I. My hands for. With something. And so I I try to term then I. I said that I have in my hand still holding his severed penis. As. And so I I look at an ice cream. Out of the window. And. She's fast as a coup. And then she drives Jonah and says I did this. I wanted to say so I was trying to find some fast. My husband said lorraina scare I said, oh my God. What is John under? And I walked down the stairs. She's huddled in the corner of my little room screaming crying, like a fetal position. And then she said, I cut his paintings. I said. And I said, well, I think we'd better call nine one one. John side says the reason that Lorena Bobbitt went to that house was to concoct a cover story that he had raped me. And I was out of my mind, I was in fear for my life. And I didn't know what to do from his perspective cooking a lie to cover up a malicious premeditated. The facts in the case by us should cut pair of panties for the scissors and ripped it to make it look like he ripped her pants off to show force and and sex. What better reason y'all furthering to use against John would be rape for the act that she that was her way of covering her tracks? Danna from the Raina able to find out the rough coordinates of the penis. So Jenna tells the police roughly where the pain is located. We ended up coming out here. Port after learning. The white throne it out the car window. Looked at this field and thought there's no way we're going to find it. Shock come to an Dr there. Say that L until by the no the part to the so me up have to sit down to a bathroom. For us. I'm pushing this gurney with baba Donna, and it was in. The course of transporting him that I heard we might have an organ replan. I've always wondered. They find it. How did the cops? Find it. Thank about it in a field. It's gotta be compromise. In terms of the antecedent quality. Police went to that field was about six o'clock on June morning, and the police scavenged about found the organ undamaged. No dogs chewed on it. It was retrievable. By this congressional by the seven eleven into the seven eleven with the peanut they get a hotdog container. They fill it with. They put the peanut on top of the ice. And that's how they take it to the hospital. Vice concealed in Brown paper hut dog big story. Yeah. I'm never seen it Pino replan tation. They're extremely rare. I'd done a lot of microsurgery side. Put a lot of fingers back on the technique is very very well described. It was just this particular application was different. Basically confuse a microscope to tach tiny little vessels, the main focus the operation was reconnecting a couple of arteries and a couple of aids and Coppola nerves. So we'd have sensation. The clock. It was about nine hours. But when you get so engrossed in something like this time passes, very quickly. We sat down at eight and all of a sudden it was four o'clock in the afternoon. Thickness concern. I had is simply that it had to were. There is no second chance. Washington Post win of Senate reporter out. From the post. It just went crazy literally overnight. This wouldn't just be a big story. It would be one of the most unforgettable stories of the nineteen nineties the second. You heard about it. You want to hear more? I was getting Andre phone calls were optimistic. Get full return the sexual function. The next day. All hell broke loose. I'd like to comment. Baba greedy jealous woman who sexually mutilated her husband's several times over a three day took a large kitchen knife, cut off or sleeping, husbands peanuts. She turns around March is right back into the trust's. Does deep. Not say that for network television. Initially, the story was sort of local news like a freak occurrence, but it became a sensation in quickly. She was acting on irresistible impulse organ was successfully reattached f for nine our operation. John Stocker says his patient could still face life as a sexual cripple public. Couldn't get enough. Which was a story that everybody was on ones this week in Virginia, which somebody taking pictures timing interview. Somebody trying to go by my mom and dad's house spare rybody wanted to talk. John. I can't everybody wanna talk to Raina it touches every single Shakespearean theme. Love lost trail conflict drama, and this had it all including violence. He likes that he'd beat her. And then also raped her those tried to fight him. Would. I said no I want him to respect that. Anyone shall reaction is this is terrible. But he must have done something suppose, we know assess what really went on that night and in relationship. The Ray of Bobby to represent the desperation. Anger women who live with this kind of violence. I think that she just taking my. Fister. Clearly is the most interesting and dramatic case I've ever onto mystic return of sexual. I don't know that for one year a cut of really blew a lot of people's imaginations weighing. The police found the organ damage, they managed to get it on ice and bring into the hospital, and then hours of surgery, and it's reattached John woke up I was able to tell them that we had great success organ was found and he was a whole person. Again, take me back to that moment where you're in the hospital, and you find out that police had actually found Europeana's in the. Habits to my life. It's like well. The opening Christmas presents on a little kid. I was excited. When I drove her to the place. I've said what happened should tell me about him raping our, and that's what I told the police. There was lengthy interview. She came to the police she said to the -tective when has expressly body to he always has orgasm, and he doesn't for me to have an orgasm, he selfish. I don't think it's fair. So I pulled back the shirt for the sheets that I didn't. And she repeated netted exact same thing next day because she have orgasm not wait for a super. And of course, the other side sees on say, she was just a victim spouse. It was nothing to do with this alleged abuse. Was there detective wanting? I think that that was just the statement that sexy mutual people should mutually enjoy it. Twenty five years ago, necessarily have full command of the English language. It was a second language to her that just as a bulk as lies. I I'm concerned because I knew she had no problem with the use language because I had the opportunity to depose her for hours because of the intimacy of this crime, it was confusing. Who was the victim who was the perpetrator? Wasn't like it fell off hot off. And if it was caught off to somebody held accountable for doing that. And if so what should the penalty? Come for over fifty years. Introduce Paul Ebert. The attorney for Prince William county, of course, such have profile case career Paul's always had good reputation. He's been elected over and over again Prince William set, some major cases in this cave as most Tele phase of except he'll DC sniper. We'll be tried by Paul Ebert with more men to death row than any other jewelry. Prosecute skip her type prosecutor. The rain Bob appeared on the verge of tears this morning. She appeared before she was charged with malicious wound. That means not only at seventy eight. She did it with Allison paid for. She was fourteen at our twenty years in my view. She sold him by him. She up shit. But what are you done to resolve that you cut paying too to mecca writing? Malicious wounding malice, it's a state of mind, but was their state of mind on the one hand, she did call police and say, here's go find the payments, and they did and they reattached on the other hand you're responsible for your actions. Under look you can't let her walk away after cutting husband's penis off. That's not and on the other hand. And he John didn't seem to be so innocent either. While we were in the hospital. Charge hurdle such chart. We couldn't believe it. John was indicted earlier this week on charges of marital sexual assault. It seemed clear that there was reason to believe he was very abusive person initially told police she'd never had sex only change the story when the detective said, we've got the lab results, we know you had sexual and then it went from no sex too. You know what? Sometimes when asleep I have sex, and therefore I don't remember it because I do it must sleep. Let's analyze that little bit. You said you might have had sex. Oh, yeah. I mean, I've known the known have him asleep. I'm walking my sleep. I've been such while sleeping. Don, do have all the speech close afterward. He wouldn't play full deck. How long did you have to stay in the hospital three weeks and win? Did you know that everything was going to be back to normal or at least close to the second week to call my mom tiller that action, and how did your reaction to talk to you about it? Put him in the ICU after surgery really for two reasons. The main reasons had to monitor also waiting keep the media people away from. How quickly did you know that what happened that night was going to be a very big story though? I news those big because they're trying to, you know, keep reporters from coming up the hospital. They're trying to get into the room. Did you realize the world was watching the evening shows and saw the jobs going on? Well, the lorraina Bobbitt trial got underway today in Virginia. Buddy. John Bobbitt, you know, poor John, Bob. There was a revolution going on and media at the time cable news coming on full bore and needed stories to cover all come to CNN prime news. They found these stories which were often buried previously local tabloid paper. You had the Menendez brothers murder, Los Angeles. Lila, Eric Mun and the shoes in the shotgun. Murder of their parents, Amy Fisher on Long Island seventeen year old Amy Fisher was in court today accused of shooting her lover's, Tonya Harding, and Nancy Kerrigan, and that drum I had no prior knowledge of the plan to fall on Nancy. Kerrigan culminating all the O J Simpson ethic. Murder try mystery and television. If it doesn't fit you must acquit. On the early nineties. Mainstream media began to realize that they had to start covering stories that were a foreigner to their newsroom at before. Then the truth is everybody was talking about it. And you just I don't think you can ignore story like that on virtually every late night show. There were jokes about them Raina cut off your Pena. How did that make you feel? He was in the Washington Post almost every day. It was usually popular. Why do you think people were so fascinated by the way, we look back to looking young people that? No to a world. I think women were kind of energized by it was somewhat shocking. The degree to which women were just almost enthralled. A new that this case it was going to be very significant. We had just been through Anita Hill's testimony less than two years before that scorned woman. No there had been that kind of watch word that the men just didn't get it and very quickly after Llerena Bobbitt maimed. Her husband the answer came back. We'll do you get it. Now. The public comes down very firmly on her side, he's guilty guilty guilty. And it's kind of a media circus acquitted. Gets acquitted men are gonna go out there. Raping women a woman severs husband's penis after he allegedly raped sir here from the doctor reattached it on the next marring. But I got a very nice call from Maury Povich who invited me was morning talk show. Everybody was was trying to get both lorraina, and John I wanted to do the story that whole story is next. I'm skeptical. I think my audiences skeptical. Maybe I'm a cynic by nature. How does it work? I mean, really they could do that good of a job that that it can make it work. How would you describe it a stump? Simply barely stump at this point. Especially when it was lying in a field in front of a seven eleven the P word still at that point in American culture was not a mentionable hide him. So what you're saying is if this is the what do you call it, the news, and we finished. Right. I guarantee you that we had the check with our legal department at the time. Okay. What can we say? What can we say? We say privates. Do we say member? Apparently, we could I just started working for Vanity Fair. I was assigned to go and get what was at the time the first and only interview with Lorena Bobbitt. We went out to dinner learning order steak, and she was having trouble, cutting the stake. And she asked the waiter a sharp. It was like if this guy knew who she was he would have dined out on that for the rest of days. Lorraine has team could went on the offensive. Did a twenty interview in September of nineteen Ninety-three. So about a month before John's trial. I just remember his voice saying that. I will follow. You know might have were you are. She told her story in a very compelling way. She was somebody who made you want to reach out and and help take care of her, and I can have any sex him one with me. Giver story time the talker. You know, those tears real real may because she didn't want to do that to me Schwartz. Take it back twice. She attacked me shouldn't shouldn't national regrets. It people said to me you got to answer. This said I wanted the jury to hear John's case for the first time I'm not going to try this in the best. What was so unusual? Here is that they both ended up in the legal crosshairs, both charted crimes and both facing John. Bob had arrived surrounded by attorneys. Nineteen Ninety-three John goes on trial, and the charge is marital sexual assault for Revie women. A case of John Bob draws attention to what they see as the weakness of the laws against marital rape at that time. Things were just changing in a lot of places marriage was sacrosanct and prosecutors let what happens inside a marriage stay inside and opening arguments. Prosecutor Paul Ebert said the Twenty-four-year-old manicurist was driven to cut her husband by years of abuse, including more than one instance of four sex. She came call pollution pathetic figure, but real and she could come what she she. Done taking all inter own. And there is no indication whatsoever that Jon Reiter, there were two rape kits conducted on Raina at the hospital. No indication that she had had any forces inflicted upon her don't have physical evidence. Which in this case, you wouldn't because she had knowledged there had been consensual sexual relations in recent days. And what are you gonna have all you have to people's were you ever worried that the jury wouldn't believe you that they would think he raped Llerena? I know I was there. I said John you could be going to jail. He's in Greg. They're gonna do the right thing. They heard the k they heard the truth Manassas Virginia criminal charges that he sexually assaulted his wife. It took the jury only four hours to find John baba not guilty that this is all over. I'm thankful I'm thankful for the the jury. They believe me and. I just wanna get on with my life and. Yeah. I got a lot of healing to do Curie got he'd been quite a bit of having his penis cut. I think that's a fair assumption that all of us is individuals feel that he he suffered some punish when it and the rest of the case still remains to be told, I guess, and I guess we'll be told at her trial Alibaba, Raynham wasn't base. Another jury as a criminal defendant herself very frightened because she says, well, if they've acquitted him, and they sure going to put all the blame on me. And I'm the one that's going to be punished so John's trial. There was no camera in that courtroom because it was sexual salty. Lorena Bobbitt, Kim trotters. Wounding trial lorraina Bobby against the Nassar gin. You're right here by hundred the dog Ford the trial, two months after John Rayo Bobbitt, emphysema, nap is rooms faith. The jury of seven women and five men third trial coming up to keep really a circus. It's say tional, but number report, you see around here proves that within the papers and on the radio couldn't escape it. It was amazing. There was a t shirt business outside the courthouse on your way out of the principal courthouse. You can pick up a souvenir t shirt for ten dollars. My masses of cut above the rest. I was a quarter an anchor at evening. I'm Terry Moran for court TV. This was one of those headline trials that made that the public. They were playing prosecutor. They were playing defense lawyer are they were playing offended, and they thought that they were the jury. Gather here in support rain. Protesters marching left Tino community group. Got some death threats. Never different MRs bobbins attorneys claim that in severing her husband's penis as he slept. She was acting on Aries instable impulse. Her lawyer wanted to make this argument that she simply could control her rage. And she shouldn't be expected to have control her age. She was not in her right mind. We had to go in there, it middling and acknowledging she's ever seen. The those off in a drunken stupor. So it wasn't like he was chasing around the house with a butcher knife. Ladies and gentlemen, what we have is Lorraine above its life. Juxtaposed against John Wayne, Bob, it's painless Lisa Kimbler gave the opening argument. The case we weren't trying to know appeal to the jury honestly, she was just good to you that a life more valuable than a Pinas. She acted in self defense. If you don't like that defense, then they will change she suffered and ever since. You believe dairy. And she. About John when he first walked in the courtroom. I think they had him in a blue suit white shirt, Chris the you look like a marine, and I just said this guy could be formidable. John w would quite frankly, I had so much material to work with that a first year law. Student could have taken him apart. No. No never did. Sprained grabbed a show you. Yes. I have. And many. Many times many. That'd be all of pushed restrained grabbed and most of them just restraining holding her down there were multiple inconsistency. Remember, Kathleen Williams family group, co marines alligator? I remember that. I remember. At council. I talked to a priest when I ask him Javer go to counselling. I don't believe. So I think I saw priest, but that's about it. Then I said, do you remember going out more remember? Filled having side from Kathleen. I I don't remember. Nine that you fill that format. Doing it. I just don't remember. It's four. I'll never forget as long as I live. He looked at the bottom of the last page, and these guys my signature. He had a devastating credibility only couldn't keep his story straight on the witness stand. What was it like? What was it like on the stand in those moments whose battle? You know, of course, Lew guess this jury. I didn't know how to explain that was frustrated. I didn't win the story with a steady stream of witnesses testifying today that John baba has a history of violent behavior, it may appear that he is the one on trial. He was hitting her punching her here like this full downward. They brought in dozens of witnesses to talk about the violence that she had experienced on our head. Can't see his crying real shake, you just push one more time walked away and said. He liked to have that the way he liked to ask sex was four sex because that turned him on not only the show that he was having the four sec, but he was even bragging about it in Manassas Virginia today, it was finally time for Lorena Bobbitt to take the stand in her own defense. Lorraina saw on the stand was sable arena. Saw on office. On my first night, I ever met her my life. It feel like. My vagina was reaping over something. I can say this. I just crime year understand your, man. He didn't there's uses. Abuses. What happened? I was drinking water. Guy. I remember a lot of things to me. For the first time he raped me. Him. I remember everything. You remember cutting? That. Keister DARPA face to place. It was crucial in the trial for Loretta Bava to have people who could come and say look psychiatrist, and I look at what happened in her life and the evidence around it she snapped he suffered from major depressive disorder stress disorder. She had an acute deterioration for mental state at that time and became psychotic a psychotic episode. She knew what she was. Couldn't help herself. She attempt the weapon, which was the instrument of torture. That is her husband's. Even the prosecutors. Witnesses state psychiatrists psychologists said she was a battered woman the difference between the state doctors are doctor was they said she had the ability to restrain herself which would be incompatible with the impulse to or temporary sanity. So if this wasn't a reaction to abuse. Why do you think she knows off your pantry moles? Does she want to keep the marriage? She wanted everything she dreamed about. Now, it was falling apart. And she wanted to either keep it together. If you couldn't then retaliate to hurt deeply emotionally, and she was acting on that by your verdict can restore a little bit of self for spec. So she can walk out of this courtroom, whether hit I've just kept saying to myself, hopefully, they will consider all that other evidence income at where they fair just. But the that would come but only throw fuel on the fire of the country's gender wars. In the trial of Riina, Bob at the woman, charged with the sexual mutilation of her husband. We the jury find the defendant. Marina lenore. Wounding as charged in the indictment. Of insanity. The Merican jury has found the woman who cut off husband's penis not guilty, Bob. It is not killed. My reason of insanity. First time than I ever saw her smile. She'd said something to lease along the lines. What does that mean? I don't think Lorena heard it because she said is that good? You told her it was good jobs denied a defense motion set, MRs Bobby free, citing state law that requires commitment to a mental institution testing the evidence of of the prior assaulted behavior. Was so compelling to jury ultimately concluded that she was not responsible under the law. I have a certain amount of sentence. That doesn't justify what she did. Cheered the verdict Molina Bobbitt was taken into custody. Rush away. That's possible show. Really by reason of insanity. That is absolutely outrageous at wonderful. So happy. Winner every really bad guy. A lot of copycat women out there. Tom is on with us. Now, Barbara I have some questions you've been covering this. You know, you've talked to her what do you think of the four on the verdict at the least perplexing, Tom? This verdict is likely to encourage more violence of this kind. A hope not cannot believe that the two of you think that women are now going to go around cutting off men's penises. I think what this shows is that there is a great deal of abuse on both sides, and we have far more to the issues than we were a few years ago. Thank you. Woman has cut off a man's receive. On the wrist in terms of punishment thought wing nothing nothing for that. And I think it was the reaction of a lot of men, whereas they were women who felt somehow vindicate will leave in her version of Beauce of merit. There were all these feminists protesters outside the courthouse and it would make the for victory fine, which they would then turn on the died and making scissors Smith. Smith doesn't make you uncomfortable. That bleed is seems to be making. Uncomfortable. Barring Cokie been so interesting. What upset you is what the carving knife cut off? She came to symbolize the serious problems that had to be changed the deficiencies how our system had failed. Her jury was more influenced by the fact that allowed John to be painted as a bad person was so one sided what could want expect that don't believe. That was just a story that they used to get her off and it worked she cut his penis off and got twenty five days of a mental. Sometimes juries do a kind of a rough look at what happened and they said. Judge has ordered Lorena Bobbitt released to a mental hospital saying that she poses no threat of herself or others. Well, I've been to McDonald's already I guess next step is this new world. After lorraina was released from that state hospital. She sat down for a second interview the twenty twenty. Either you nor John were found guilty was there. No victim. We both victims with Boston victims of a tragic situation. Yes. Do you believe that's true? We do. She was a screening. So stubborn. We'll men have to have a little be more consideration in respect respective woman. Baba case has this Shakespearian comic rhythm to it. All ends penis. Cut off gets put back on again. She gets charged with not guilty. He gets charged with down Kilty speaks to how little after all. Even was presented at both trials. How little any of us really knew about him personally. I thought it would be a stop sign for abuse against women. Don't ever commit domestic, wile. Yes. What? You may be Bob. And I thought that that would last obviously didn't because of what no now in terms of the metoo movement, we will declare again that women are full more human beings. I think it's a good comparison to make don't say lorraina ball. But. Willingly chose to tell the truth about her life. But it came out in the stories at trial, and if you speak up and speak out with you take the courageous step of telling the truth about your life. You find lots of other women who gained courage and. This publicity for abuse can help one person fund freedom. All of this was not in vain the verdicts may be in. But we have not heard the last of John and Lorena Bobbitt. The story did not have thought that verdicts would would you know, end the story. That's it book closed. Nope. Where did the idea? I inner dome fell. John Wayne Bobbitt trial for over he envisioned his forty fifty media blitz tore and joining us now, John Bava PR person. They went on radio shows. Understood they went on then various contests, and it was almost like, you know, you show up at the county fairs. Penis. John Wayne Bobbitt, we went on the Jenny Jones show as a family. I it felt good to go on there, and defend our brother. She tried to kill him. She tried to hurt him into worse way possible for any man. How would you feel your son you tell us what kind of condition? It's right now. This is easy. Judd said his most common questions everybody want to look at it. So that led to the Howard Stern craziness. Away from oblivion John Wayne Bobbitt. Dollars your show me appearance. And this is my final offer. Does your opinion is still hurt too? I know you had some sensation down there. That was uncomfortable. Is that true? I've been completely almost completely restored. So yes, pretty much too late used to spend a lot of time on the Howard Stern show. Did you ever mind being the butt of everyone's jokes? Made up a lot of my own. He was ready to do anything. And then, of course, the tided to go and do adult films. How we doing? I believe he did it not only for the money. But he wanted to show people that were where to be. Dea I come from to get involved in adult films. Don't hear what mile big party playboy party. And what they're that. Some people talking about Phil Ron Jeremy Jermiah. I'm Ron Jeremy. I'm this known as being an adult film, actor I've done about four thousand x rated movie forty one year career now Z discover or you could say scout for the John Wayne Bobbitt movies while approach Vegas. I don't think it was the wisest choice. But obviously from my standpoint, it gives credibility to the fact that it does work and that we're very well. It was a comedy because I was writing this thing. This is my best directing 'cause I should the ninth finder back, and I had the light glisten at night and people saying. I couldn't not see them as my work. Medoff our surgical work is displayed in that fashion. Yeah. You're I was pretty successful to think it was the best selling video. History. Humongous PR move at boost the entire adult industry that was having some problems. And it started the way for celebrities actually, do Saxon. I'm just sad that he didn't really make any money at it. One thing about John in his sort of innocence easily lead into things that don't have the best appearances John's not complicated. He says what's on his mind so much better. Others for worse. And then I think when he found himself being this huge center of media attention that really overwhelmed. I was surprised at the ruby took lorraina on the other hand lived, a very, quiet and good Representative life post trial. She comes out of the hospital, and she's dire straight playboy offered her one million dollars code and turn that down. And she went back to her manicurist work. When you decided to date again, how did that go? How did men react to you? I never experienced having any man being afraid of me. You know, the country they're curious shortly after her divorce from John she met a new man, Dave Bellinger in a college class. What was his reaction when he I found out that you were lorraina Bob it, I think he knew it from the very beginning. I mean, it was it was worry. It was very flatter for me. And this guy knows maybe. She has a house in Gainesville Virginia. Just a stone's throw from an asses. She's a daughter into Lavinia. She starts foundation that combat's domestic violence. Shoot return. The John did not in terms of musing this event to better the lives of others and probably feeling better about herself. You know does have a blip in the road in nineteen Ninety-seven. She is accused of assaulting her mother, basically, beating her mom, and she gets arrested, and the judge is on record in the thing that he thinks Lorena was probably guilty. But you know, there was reasonable doubt. So found her not guilty. Foundation to help abused women. Always made me wonder whether her mother could apply some from that foundation. But even after rainy did have several arrests and convictions for battery against women their problems women, and he's chronic problems. Women are number of domestic battery charges brought against him. He in jail time for this is it you is them is that is it bad combination. How do you explain your troubled love life? To this. No, not the person with their motives. That's the case that would attract all the wrong people. Being around. They're all around people, and it had that the sermon picking and choosing wisely. Did you physically hurt any of these women? I think part of the problem for John John domestic violence has punching a woman in a faith, which doesn't really see shoving or kind of restraining kind of a rough way or punching a wall as violence, and it is it is John Wayne Bobbitt. How would you describe yourself? Call com collective pace. Don't like violence believe in violence. Have you seen lorraina since the trial? I'm able to do. Find things. I hear you were on the search for the forest fend treasure. This is adventure. Scouring the rocky mountains for a chest said to be filled with millions and rich in modern day gold rush in the Rio Grande hidden by this man, Hugh, Mexico, art dealer and collector, fourth very blogs online. The. A lot of search. We will consider themselves at this point. A professional treasure hunter Tertius hidden somewhere than the. North of Santa Fe after four of Canada. You know, where it is where it is the trigger. Shredder? That if he finds his treasure Donald Trump might into the White House, and that sort of present day can't make it up. Have you seen lorraina since the trial? That was that. Television show called insider, John and Lorraine Bobbitt face to face on that show. You said that you still love lorraina is that still true. A love the woman. She was. Have you moved on? Vegas to different careers in. My mother got sick and went home for the while came back. The biggest layer there's no question that there was a lasting legacy out of that arena. And John Bobbitt story we need to have a fully funded violence against women act in September nineteen ninety four. We got the violence against women past. It's no surprise that. Some men were two three occupied with John Wayne Bobbitt's penis to notice the women had begun a national dialogue about domestic violence for the first time. Federal legislative package designed to stop. Since major breakthrough. The attitude toward sexual abuse. Or physical biz between men and women changed radically Malaya's twenty five years. I don't know because I feel like, you know, we had the Raina Bobbitt who are husband, and it's supposed to be a big moment to recognize domestic abuse. And yet why is it? I don't know. I mean, it feels to me like things change very slowly in our society. A story that captivated the nation then and now thanks for watching. I'm Amy robot from all of us here. Twenty twenty thanks for watching this two hour special. We'll see next week. Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast.
Aired Last month 68:00
EP275: Stolen Penises, Lady Luck, & Birth in Space
Today's episode is brought to you by outdoor voices. For twenty percent off your first order of one hundred dollars or more. Visit outdoor voices dot com slash brain, candy and enter brain candy. Say. You guys. It's like, okay. It's like five thirty PM over here. But it feels like it's the dark of this is why hate daylight savings once again Sarah member when we just talked about that. I guess what what it got worse. She looks really upset to tell me everything. So I found out the person that created it is it Pittsburgh. Now, it's a politician ran on this. And guess what else you know, how? I love those how we thought that it was like the farming Yang. Whatever one's been selling us a Bill goods. It turns out it's so that it was later in the evening. So people would spend more money at stores and shop longer. We should have known. It's not for the goddamn horn. Farmers. Let this be a lesson to everyone politician pitches. An idea that seems like he's going to change the world. It's probably put dollars into somebody's pocket. Yeah. And like that's not okay. With me, dude. Especially if you're from PG h. And where do we get the farming thing they said like the Live Aid told us, I don't know. Whether it's a lie. They told us our people were just like it must be. You know, where you're like, I for some reason like the Bush family is connected to that in my mind. Just like, you know, like categorize like I like. I think there's a story about this. This these two things I don't know why you're probably right. But neither way I'm still not happy about it. Like, I mean, it was an also the car wash closes earlier. They're open from dawn dusk who hours like that the car wash. I told you who though it I don't know how more specific just one or everyone. They they have different summer. It's like world and rain or shine or rain or shine. We're open shine shine. This is like an actual thing. I swear I went and there were closed. I went somewhere the other. I went drove by one. And I'm like, oh, this is weird thirty minutes. Terrible. Because Don is now at six just asked my kid. Oh my God. Who is like good morning. Really feels like I'm going to bed when the sun is coming up. Oh my God. Like, I can having insomnia lately where I can't go to bed and it's like four thirty. And I'm starting to turn light. I got us leap what I'm for real. I went to bed at four fifteen four thirty last night. I was up at seven thirty this morning, and I cannot help I can't pass three days of more. Yeah. Have you asked your doctor, what's right for you? Like like that. No, I got to figure out. There's there's to be something that like might dusters. Well, for sure, you know, aren't we all thanks something going on? I hate when they give you tips though, they're like. Go ahead. 'cause I know I will turn offals screens to. Okay. Okay. What am I supposed to do light a candle like, I'm Ben Franklin and read a book? Right. When I haven't saw me at four pm. I mean like, I don't like it. I like their kids. I get it. My my doctors real into that like, you know, I have restless leg, and so every time I have to go in to get this stupid prescription for the quantum been and quantum pin is one of those drugs where they have to be kind of careful because it's habit forming or whatever. And so she's always like have you tried seltzer water? No, kill my. That's what they used to say. When I had morning sickness, and they're like, you try ginger one person tells me that I should take each ginger. I will take that frigging ginger jumping minute as I get it. If you're talking to somebody else. Yeah. I always bust out like the my credentials at these times because I. I'm only searcher. I have written many papers that where I look at peer reviewed articles. I mean, I've done the I'm if they choose to not give me the prescription. That's fine. But I will use something worse. He will solve the problem. It's you you time you decide I feel like I'd get the same. Oh my God. This is going to be a little over share. Or maybe it's going to be one of those things where it's like thank goodness. It's not just me. When I go and talk about. We'll call it a ph imbalance in my lady parts. Oh, yeah. You like. Now, he tried using a different soap have you tried using cotton underwear? Have you tried using a different monitor? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. You know, when I started the first time, I asked you about this twenty years ago. Wow. I mean, a different solution. Now, I know that just give me a medicine, and let's get the fuck out here. I can't believe they say cotton under every time every time, and they go, you know, what I finished. Doesn't sounds like guest cotton underwear change, my soap and use a different detergent. Yeah. I do all that. Good. Got check to check. Now. Give me the medicine. Can I tell you story, but underwear? Yeah, please. So the other day care mix cellini, the zookeeper, whatever who she sends us those snakeskins. Yeah. And I had been cleaning out Lincoln's bedroom. And I found the box of snakeskins, and I'm like, do you want these like, do you wanna keep them or whatever? And he was like. Yeah. Love them. And then like two days later, we came back from a restaurant, and we're all three of us are changed indoor jammies. And you like when you get undressed in like have a pile of clothes. Why had a pair of like? Nude lace panties on the floor and league goes is that snakes? I swear I doubled over because it was so sincere and earnest he just like why would that be on the floor in my bedroom? Anyway, he's just in his little kid mind going there. Similar texture. I looked at it. And I was like, you know, what it's hopefully sneak has limited. Anyway, any huddles our war? I feel like there was something that reminded. I know that there was something that reminded me to of. Oh funding underwear story. I was at my friend invited me to a yoga class. And so I went with her, and I didn't I didn't know I should have done a better job looking that it was one of those hot, yoga classes, and it was great. I loved it. It was fantastic. He taught young I love it. And but I haven't been so long, but I forgot towel. And she's like, oh, don't worry brought one for you. And she went to open up a towel. And she got the static on the static. Ed. She looked who's one of the best cheese. Yeah. It was so cute because she like my tell didn't have it. But it was hers and she like went to go lay it out. And then she looks like when we got in like, plus it up and shows me that it's like red lace value. I'm like, oh, that's so great. I love it. And it just made Hartfield so warm because I'm like, it's not just me that happens everybody like we should just like I love those moments. Where they're like funny lighten garrisoning moment. Well in your so fun to have them with because you never make anyone feel weird. Oh, it's not where because I'm like oh, thank goodness. Let's call attention to all these weird things. And you know, I guess because like I am walking Murphy's law. Where like whatever can go wrong. We'll go wrong. It's really nice. When like I get to share that with somebody else. I guess I should say though, that if you're going to be like doing hot yoga or doing any kind of workout. I know what you're going to say, I wore that outfit exact outfit there. And I guy says one's of compliments on it where they were like this whole look is amazing. Remember, I told you last time those getting the matching set of the light colored with my new shoes. Yeah. White and white. I wore that they're so oh my God. This is the most appropriate thing. Tell the people were got sues outdoor voices. Yes. Okay. You hit the nail on the head. It's clothing that's made to be to sweat in. But you don't have to go to hot yoga like a weirdo. Don't know if you could just go for a walk with your family outside or take your dog out or go for a bike ride. That's what they're all about about is just sort of like, you don't have to go harder stronger faster. You could just just go. Do something do something anything the first time. I were it was on the airplane. So that's smart. I'm looking cute everywhere. Oh, that's good. Okay. And they have fabrics that are designed for performance and having fun with your family and for with the fabric that they make. It's like textured compression stuff that if you're going for a hike or jog it's perfect for that. Or if you just want to be cozy. You know, what I mean, and Sarah loves that they're code outdoor voice. I do. I think it's great because I'm told me to use my indoor voice all the time. Yeah. She's like whatever outdoor voices. Here's the deal for twenty percent off your first order of one hundred dollars or more. Visit outdoor voices dot com slash brain, candy and use promo code brain candy. That's twenty percent off your first order of one hundred dollars or more. Visit outdoor voices dot com slash brain candy. They have men and women's stuff, and yeah, they have Steph for everybody, and they just want people to live, happier, healthier lives. It's not like, you know, go which I like not that all I was going to say do I like to go live, right? Yeah. But I'm more about like going out and keep in active. Any huddles any huddles? Do you want to hear about siblings? Sure. Or not really would you tell me about that? Then I'm going to tell you about you race. You go. I know. All right. Well, anyway, it was startled me Atlantic about the importance of siblings. And how I think a lot of times we put an emphasis on parents. Oh in the reason is because they're your longest relationship. They are most, you know, if everything goes as planned, your parents gonna die before your sibling, likely and. It was talking about how the structure of families eighty two percent of people live with a sibling that's fewer than live with their dad. Eighty two percent. Alway they're allowing on. I thought you meant currently. Yeah. Yeah. But that's fewer than live with their dad. You know what I mean? More than the with their sorry. Yeah. More people live more people live with their bling. Yeah. Yeah. My god. And I I have never thought about one of those people I live my brother's longer than I ever lived my debt. Closer relationship with them hands down me too. And you have this shared experience of what you know. Like, if your parents are Kuku crazy, which mine are then you'll have an ex it's kinda like when we talk about like being on the real world or road rules. How even when you don't like the other people in your cast, you have this share experience, and sometimes that can be sustainable just based upon that foundation. That's and you know, I think even like when you say only, maybe you don't like them, but you have the shared experience. I really wanna put it out there to people especially who are in their late twenties or even like the twentieth transitioning into the thirties that regardless of the relationship that you had with your siblings as children you can have a wonderful relationship with them daughters. -ly I think some people throw they think because they didn't have a relationship with them. It's hard like there's a transition. There's something that changes, especially with anything if you were the youngest child, and then you had like, a parental fight older sibling, or it was the reverse where you were the oldest child, and you felt like you had to kind of care for those siblings, or whatever the the nature of the relationship changes as you become adult more like equals and peers, and I think that really wonderful relationships come out of siblings, friendships as adults my siblings are my best friends. But that only happens if you can transition. Yes, it blinks into adults could front I think you are always struck by the fact that I have a brother in his fifties. And always the youngest of five and said, my oldest brother is in his fifties. But we're so close, and luckily we were close along. I mean, he was thirteen when I was born. So I mean, that's huge difference. But I feel like really lucky and really makes me go back and forth about the our family because only child thing is fine. And there are benefits to both. It's what studies do you want to look at you know, like anything us a wondering about you, your you? And your brother, you know, because there was that big age difference. I would imagine that he was kind of like not Porenta fide. But like there was a relationship where he was more of the teacher or the guide and you're like kind of following. Well, he was more absent because by the time I was like a wear. Let's say eight twenty one whatever. So he was gone. So what you get to reestablish that. Or like, did you he always treated me with respect? And he always talked to me like I had some thing important to say wonderful, and I really valued that he still does. I was just with him when my dad passed away. He drove up from Florida. And he was talking about something. He goes, you know, what I like about you, you always get it. And that's like what if what you. Yeah. And I that we he writes, he loves Trump everything on I had to defend him on Facebook and Dalia our assistant is his daughter who I love. But like we have nothing in common in terms of worldview, but like we see each other and we'd get it. And that's pretty cool. What about you? I wonder if it was like if he has a moment where he's because it's it's really it's not so much the younger one. But it's the older one who has to stop seeing a kid. Oh, yeah. And he has to make that that jump to seeing you as an adult in the same way, it's difficult for parents to transition transition through that were they go. I can't I don't have the same role in this person's life like good on him for for. But do you have trouble seeing like that your brothers as like grown men? I it wasn't until maybe like two or three years ago that all really happened because they started acting like grownups. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He started doing things where I was like. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Not needing me as much. Yeah. Which is like my stuff I have to deal with which is like well because. Now, it's like I have to reestablish like my identity in this relate. Then like who I am that word exactly is why I would say this article was so poignant, and I'll put it in the newsletter is because the sibling relationship grapples with that concept of identity who am I in the world dude is deep. Yeah. But most people have sibling and have experienced it on one end to the other. But it it's like a to help. And it's also a hindrance in something. Like, remember when you came to my house for the first time, and you told me, can you believe how f- letting your daughter is your sisters and everybody started laughing, and it was like. She must be kidding. Because they had already in their mind labeled me as who I am. And the rest of my life is who I was when I was child. So it wasn't until they let go of that fixed identity of me for themselves. You know, like in their mind. This is who Sarah is. And they kind of expanded that. Yeah. I don't know if it's I let them see it or I changed. I'm sure it. I'm sure I did. Because that's how it works. And like, I stopped treating them. Like, I was their parent or I stopped. You know, like parenting them. Yeah. That it changed things. But. Yeah. There was that moment. And my brother also had a moment where he told me that I would be a really good wife someday. Because I kind of that ugly duckling syndrome thing going on for sure you do. It's real weird. And I was like, oh, thank you. It's true though. Because like weren't good looking. Oh, I like that. That's how he literally said that afterwards. He was like because he used to be like, you know, not like that. And now you are. And so, but you don't look you don't feel you don't act like that. Oh my God. So I was like, but it was it was meant in. And also he was sixteen or seventeen. This was like the biggest compliment he's ever given me. And the only way that a sixteen year old boy knows how to because sixteen I was twenty two at the time. Yeah. It was like right after I got back from the show and things in my life changed. So right. It also in the article talks about how when the sibling relationship is bad. It's bad. There's no middle ground. Yeah. I mean, and I got a message gosh, I think it was on Instagram because we keep talking about that three identical strangers documentary about the triplets. But this person was talking about I think she newest set of twins or maybe was in a set of twins where they hated each other. And how terrible that would be. There's going to be reason for that. I have heard that. I guess it's like all or nothing. I think you're right. I think it's totally like that who it's those. I get it. It was all or nothing for what like not all or nothing. But it's like. There was a shift that happened in our where it was like. I don't think I can go to these people for help. And then something happened. And then I was like, oh, no. I know that these they have my back. Oh, that's good Mike, but it took a moment of of really like being my true self and like being honest and having an like a real conversation with them and being vulnerable. Oh that word you are right through this whole thing we discovered that. Nobody in our family has ever been vulnerable. And we have to really work hard. We just put. That's no fun. No. You've got to be not my family. That's our should be on her like family seal, or whatever this far it's called the crest family friends, like humor instead of on his right, right? Self-preservation at all. Who does have your back, though is the people at ring the do to my God have you seen these like the doorbells that are video? The smart video goes to your phone and it protects millions of people because you see who the heck's rain your dang doorbell. See this is the joke. You say they have your back, and I should have said door and their front door that that that interesting next time Raines mission is to make neighborhoods safer. And I think they already are you see these videos all the time like fighting crime like they're this superheroes. Get it to protect your house or to go viral, either one choice Sarah a lot of viral videos. Thanks to ring. But they're also keeping people save which is super cool if there's a package delivery or a surprise video you'll get an alert or absurd visitor. You'll get an alert and be able to see or hear and speak to them all from your phone. And that's thanks to the HD video and two way audio on all the devices. So you like hook it up real quick on your door and. You can see what's cooking there. We were at dinner the other night. And I got to alerts and I was like. Ooh. His I thought it was going to be Lincoln with his nanny coming home. But it was two packages. And I thought okay, okay. You're fine. You're fine. You're louder I'll allow it. This favorite thing. Say Landon allow it for listeners you have a special offer on ring starter kit. That's available right now be cool gift for the holidays too with a video doorbell and motion activator floodlight Cam the starter kit has everything you need to start building. A ring of security around your home. Just go to ring dot com slash brain. Kitty. That's ring dot com slash brain candy. I have a story. Okay. So like, you know, how a lot of people that have babies they get the similar type of thing that they can talk through. Yeah. Got it on the nurse nursery. And so let's say grandma comes over to babysit. Yeah. Since she has the app on her phone and show log in. So that she can if the baby goes down watched the baby on her phone. Well, if the grandma doesn't log out then the grandma can see what you're doing what mom's doing. So basically all of the rules that mom makes Graham follow are thrown out the window and moms. And so I have a friend who came over, and she was talking about how her mom didn't log out, and do, you know, the baby had been crying for a little bit. But like as a mom, you know, what's yes, right amount of any also know the tone of the cry and the grandma called and was like your baby's been crying for ten minutes. And they were like squeezed me like you are still logged in God, stop make brother and my baby. And I thought what an interesting turn of events like motherhood or parenthood. And like, I would've never thought about that. Because I didn't have one why did have one of those. When like it was a baby. But I never liked gave the password to my mom or anything. So I never thought about someone else having access. Yeah. Oh, I would not want that. Right. They care the bait. It's and. Yeah. And like. You don't I don't want to eat that. Are you is the mom? Yes. You should be able to see it you. Yes. But like the babysitter or the the mother law. No, they don't get to team. Now imagine and they're like tuning in never evening to see what you do all the time. Awful. I mean. Shin. I like that I would do. But here's the thing is like every mother get to that point like motherhood. I understand this just from stories I've heard from trying to be compassionate and empathetic to my friend situations. I only know that my position on this will just. My my it'll grow stronger this feeling of knowing that. There to in their best and sometimes you're fucking exhausted, and maybe can cry vine an end there's so much at work here. And there's a reason why memory doesn't really come on board till you're about six biology is designed for like mothers to be frustrated, and like something happens, you know, whatevs they're very resilient as as long as you're like tending to throw when you were pregnant, and like, you, you know, you were being very care. I was nuts. He were being careful you were like, but then you'd remind yourself, and you go there crack. They're crack babies jus remember crack babies up because that's like it's not funny. No. But it's a way to say like, I'm don't be so hard on yourself is what you think I told you one or told I don't know if I told you or another friend somebody who told me that they're worried that they're not being a good mom and say, you know, how I know. You're a good mom. Because you're not a good mom. Yeah. You know, what bad mom's never do worry that. They're not doing a good job. So weird too. So. Worried. You're fucking good like on intervention. They always say, they're good. Mom. That the same. And that's what my when I had one in there for DNC and after had the miscarriage, and I was like feeling so bad and like thinking, oh my God. Maybe there's something I could have done. Maybe this was that one time. I did whatever he was like I got two clients that are six months pregnant, and they're still using heroin. So you're fucking fine. Can't play these. But they they're like, I'm not like the really he said it was like, listen, I people whatever. But let me just tell you. This is not this is just a roll the dice. And this it sticks or doesn't stick. But you know, the one time you used cleaning solution that was fair is not. I think he's back show. I was like, oh my God is probably the formaldehyde in my nail polish. I didn't wear like. Rain went everywhere. I called the hotline they not home. But like the midwife that I was working with game year like twenty four hour number and Sigmund had this allergic reaction where he. He was having like allergies where he would get cheap between his paws. So they gave me this powder that like numbs that area. And so I use the powder, and then I I used it. And I thought I wash my hands off. But afterwards, I like went to bite my nails or something and my tunnels became numb like it was like poison in. It was numbing whatever numbed. His paw did have the same effect on my tongue. So then I look it up. And I said what does and it causes severe birth defects in dogs like dogs pregnant, you take it. So I was like holy fuck. I just expose my baby toxins. I had to call the line. I had to wait for them to call me back. It was those Ed probably should've will did the vet not know, you know, they do. And it was like we've got the medication before we keep it in the house. And I didn't know that I read it's like, this should always be used with gloves. Nobody told me this. It doesn't say that on the instructions it doesn't say avoid if you're pregnant, but I fucking freaked out. And they were like, you're fine. They basically was like it's not just have it on record. But somehow I knew because that was four days later was what I went into have my first older sound, and you don't think that was it. Right. No. That wasn't it because the baby like was at eight weeks, and this was at thirteen weeks. I don't know how to say that whatever the heartbeat stopped. What do you want me to say? Like, it's matter of fact, you know, so long time member of my family. That's funny. I get you. But yeah. So I knew it wasn't that. But I there was something almost like deep down in my subconscious that knew that there was no longer life inside of me. Oh my God. I was like it must be this must be this must be this month's me this, you know. Anyway, this is terrible. So I'm gonna totally do. Did you know that which is used to be accused of making penises disappear? Like into their own vaginas or what? Well. Better. They were accused, and I cannot figure this out is this just a bunch of small penis dudes out there who have like that that who are like it. She did it. It must be heard. They were cut off. Oh, well, he Proser. But like how would they be you're in? You're not accused of that you either did it like Lorena Bobbitt or you didn't didn't. But they it said in the article they were accused of this, and they would keep them and. As pets and feed them, oats. Through her where? Aware, but I don't really Suzy or a member. When you told me the story of the chicken head has head cut off that lived like six months afterwards. You told me they fed it through the little opening with an eyedropper. I picture something very similar it hits. Like they destroy up into the little hole. Like, I don't get handles oats. Or they just like this is healthy. The funny thing is I wrote this down a long time ago, and then Irene countered it in my phone. And I thought I should look more into that for like more detail. Like they did. But but like, I don't understand the dampening accused of it. Because if somebody cut off my penis, I would be certain she did it. It's definitely hurt. Oh, we got a visitor hol- no knocking on the door. We were interrupted, but we were talking about penises, and I feel like people just plain which is for everything during a certain from like the dawn of time till right now, I love it not that they get blamed. But that they that women are so powerful is which the new I wanna be a mermaid. I think it is. Or is. It means me. Well, I do think the witchy nece is growing in popularity but it's not the same people. It's not in your case. It is I say, but I think you're the rare overlap in that ven diagram, but I do know something that everybody can use the ven diagram on this one is a perfect circle, which is digitizing like old, VHS tapes, or film reels. Or if you have hard copies of pictures from when you were little everybody has something that's like collecting dust in their closet that they could use legacy box for. Plus, it's such a great Christmas gift like if you're trying to think of something to give to your parents as a great thing to give to them because you can get all their home movies and photos digitized. And I think I told you already I got all my road rules, VHS tapes digitize. So I've been walking down memory lane with those and then I sent my momma box. So I can get all her stuff as well. It's just a great way to actually have access to the things that you can remember instead of it just sort of sitting somewhere in your attic or basement or whatever and then your family history is preserved. I think it's such a great idea for you or perfect gift idea for your parents or your grandparents or whoever there's never been a better time to digitally, preserve your memories. Visit legacy box dot com today to get started. Plus for a limited time, they're offering our listeners, an exclusive discount, go to legacybox dot com slash brain. And you can get forty percent off your first order, go to legacybox dot com slash brain. And save forty percent today. Get started preserving your past. Now, let's get back to Sarah preserving her present. Which he? Behaviors the more. I start talking about what she thinks that I'm into more people searched sharing which things that they do. And I'm like holy fuck or doing no like. I have one friend who is talking about how she carries rose courts with her. And she when you store it in your house, you have to put it in the right corner of your bedroom. Like when you walk in and needs to be in the right corner for like the energy in the flow of how the end. You just like in my mind. And I quite can't talk about that. Because they're going to be like, I don't know. I'm we're gonna scienc- world where everything's like. Well, I guess so because it's about intention. Yes. It is. And I that idea like, even if the actual thing matters not and that is the whole thing. Yeah. And I think that's what we're learning more and more. And I think these little things that people do, you know? I used to be I was really nervous to share with everybody that I used like my black term lane stone. When I keep it in my pocket when I have a client that still going through heavy stuff because it like absorbs the negative energy. And then one of my friends at the clinic was going through sub inches think. I need your black rock. I was like oh my God. You're like validating. Oh, my like, it feels so good to know that I'm not alone. It's fucking which is so and we're all going through shit me find that. I read this article about how how everyone's like two thousand eighteen to seventeen or garbage years. The worst worst for me. My husband for everybody. I know everyone welding will now we know that it's not just like what we think it was actually a global truth about. Everyone was having bad shit. Now. I gotta find a whole, man. All right now, just to prove the point that it's terrible year. I cannot find sonnet. And now, I'm really mad. Hold on. Maybe it's on this sheet. No. But it was saying like because you might think it was like a western thing like Trump, or if you're liberal person, or Brexit or something, but it's not it was like Africa places where. Yeah. It had nothing to do with just sort of the crap we're dealing with you know, spiritual people that I talked to talk about that. You don't like the end of times thing they're saying like two thousand sixteen they said there was some some date in there. I can't remember what the date was where it was going to be like the end of the world. Yeah. Yeah. So. People. Who are I've heard people who are in like the more. Like new age kind of world. Yeah. Say that that's not a literal end of times. It's a basically like not like a spiritual test. But like every this is going to be the worst times for people and the ability now will this this one that started like whenever that date was set into motion. Just oh. And it's not that it's the end of the world. But if you don't know how to adapt if you don't have the self coping self like Karen coping mechanisms if you don't if you're not resilient. Yeah. Then you will not survive whether that be emotionally or physically or whatever that the stress of that will make you sick that all this like we'll like things just will be emotionally overwhelming to the point where you can't even survive, and that's more. Like, what was meant. It wasn't a very literal like and of times, it's like this puts into action a bunch of this is just what I know science behind. This is just what people say seems to be however buddies feeling because it's like you either need to change or you need to get on board as I will say two thousand seventeen and eighteen have been the most challenging years of my life. Yeah. But also, the ones with the most personal growth, and if I just dug my heels in and said, Nope. This is just. Should he is in this awful? And I didn't do anything than I would have just been. I would I wouldn't have made it. It was like I had to learn how to be learn how to what I what do I need to change my life. It was like let's go on medication for ADHD. Let's solve that problem for you know, whatever it is. But that's like a form of becoming more resilient and recognizing that I do need help. And I can't do it by myself. You know, that's hard though. It's really hard. Well, that's the thing is like a lot of people don't do that. That is the hardest part. That was the biggest. 'cause I've been like, okay, I've doing it. My wife or forever, and that's not working like it just got to the point where I'm like, I'm either gonna lose it or change like those. Yeah, I'm still recovering and I'm still changing. Now, they they're like they're happening. The big it's more like everybody seems fine now. But I think everybody's having their own personal identity crisis. Everybody had talked to really it's even like the clinic. I mean, we have the longest waiting list that we've ever had. That's interesting. You know, like not us because we don't have a waiting list, but the student. I do health. Yeah. Vacant generalists. And they're like, we have the most people that have ever been you know, everybody's looking for help. Well looking. Yeah. That's true. Maybe that's part of it is is that people are starting to accept it. Like you can Suzy shout. I hope that's the case. Yes. That's the dig your heels in versus saying I need help. All this. So good. My god. If my mother would only try I read this article, though, that it started out as just something fun. Where like the things it was like, the I forget the title was like, oh creepy. Historical. Fact, I'm love that. May you have my one of my favorite words in the title? Then no like three of your favorite artist. Right. Right, fax and historical. The right order. When they were good, and I can get to some of the other ones. But this one was my favorite because first of all I couldn't believe I had never heard of this before. Oh, my God told me everything her name is Anna may Dickinson and this woman, they call lady luck. And they call her that because get this. And I can't even I know it's good. When I tell Adam beforehand, I'm like get this. She survived the Titanic. I've heard of this woman. Okay. Keep going she survived two shipwrecks. I wish no tell me what the says, he's survive the Hindenburg exposed paid. That's I totally heard of her. But I didn't know who I've heard this story before keep going the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Oh, and. At ninety seven years old. She survived the destruction of her apartment in nine eleven. This is the opposite of what I'm supposed to be doing on podcast 'cause I'm like at a loss for words. Listen, I feel like she's like an ice Stanek. No. I feel like there's a purpose for her like she's somebody who's now when you love to know how she died. It was probably like she like. Shit like that. She tripped over her own like shoelace coming up the stairs. It's going to be like that for fucking Scher. That's like me who has the worst injury my life from hula hooping. Meanwhile, I've jumped out of airplanes, it's totally like that. Wait a sec. She survived a wreck type and Titanic. The Hindenburg bombing Pearl Harbor and the destruction of her apartment in nine eleven air reminds me of on will and grace Schmidt -i HALE. He's always like my wife survive in birds. You know that guy. But she really did. And they call her lady luck. I might call it something else. I mean, it sounds like terrible luck. And what if she's like the curve? Similar? She shows up. Not to this. Right. Well, you can't take it. Anyways. It's like final destination. I don't know that movie is like as you. Will you had mentioned it about the escalator problem? And I'm like, okay. I'll pretend like I know. The the premise just so that you're onboard for all the other future times that I referenced this because there will be more times we're talking about this. It's like you're doomed to die, and you can't escape it. So they're all supposed to be on this airplane that the one guy gets like a psychic premonition that says we cannot go and he throws a fit is like stop. We're not getting on that plane and those to extreme lengths to stop people who are supposed to be on that plane getting on the plane, then the plane explodes, and what happens is, but they were meant to be meant to be on it, but they weren't on it. So based on their positioning in this in the airplane like when they play an explosive in the front, and then it killed people. They're sacked. Yes. So people died in the order in which they were supposed to die since this based on the based on a true story. I'm not at all. But what is it true story is that that woman survived only lotteries shit. My like, I. Like, I no I absolutely have heard like. This woman who survived and I just didn't know the details of it. But some of the things in the article, though, aside from that were interesting they talked about how during the dust bowl in the nineteen thirties. People would use flour sacks as like clothing this. Oh, like an actual like potato sack like. Yeah. This act they've turned. Instead, then the flower companies started making them like really cute, and like make them like floral print and stuff is kind of the start of a lot of trends, though. And I was like, wait. What's creepy above is? I don't get it. That's cool. Okay. About that. I don't know. And then. Just have your notes like this. Well, that's cool. I like that. And I wish more companies would do that now. So we could reuse shit like make cute, and then we'll reuse it. They do. Well, I don't know found any way related, but what pops in my head are trends that start because of the clothing but inmates where. Yeah. Bag UPI ham. Legos went what do you mean? You know, how the oftentimes men of color where their pants where one leg is up. I heard that from vice bike riding just the one like yet because you don't want one leg to get caught in the spoke when you ride a bicycle that you have to roll up just one leg. So that this folks don't that it doesn't get caught in the bicycle spokes. It's like a hipster thing of people who ride fixed gear bicycles. They have to roll hipsters, you know, people color. I did not know that that was the thing in like one leg up on the white, man. Oh, I don't know. If that's true. I didn't that ally interesting thing. But I thought that it's. Started in prison like the baggy pants. I just know about the did we just are. We accidentally racist right now. I don't know what that is do no the baggy pants. I have heard that that's the origin that. But I have never why would you need a roll of one leg to write a bike a because have you were in the bike with beg pants. I have and I guarantee you, but I need to roll them both up. No. Because the spoke that chain the chain of the bike is only on one side. Okay. It's only has an opening dependent. How wide your pants Sierra? I wear some wide like that is true. Why? Proc- where she does lays gentlemen. Oh my God. Oh, my Masha Brady over here. Wait. The other thing do you wanna say something? Well, I mean, I just like to have so many wonderful short stories, I wanna share, but not if you have more on those gonna spend please finish it before. I just want to be like wait for my opening. It's like, double Dutch where I'm like watching the Roko, and I'm going to jump in window. Okay. Okay. Okay. Good before I carry on. I should say that regardless of what kind of pants you wear. You wanna have nice sheets on your bed? Why don't you change from your comfortable baggy pants, J, home, Jammie pants, get in your comfy sheets Brooklyn in have you bought them yet? They were the winner of the best online betting category by good housekeeping. I haven't won all the beds in my house and not because I'm some sort of weirdo. It's because they're the most amazing sheets I've ever slept on they basically made quality luxury sheets without the middleman. So they don't have to charge you an arm and leg, and they look to you can mix and match patterns. You don't have to buy the whole set of one thing, which I think is really cool, and I like being able to like make color, and then whites and patterns go together, my Brooklyn, and she said the best most comfortable sheets I've ever slept on. What about you for sure? And they'd just get more comfortable the more wash them. And now it's time for you to upgrade Brooklyn dot com is giving an exclusive offer just for our listeners get twenty dollars off and free shipping when you use promo code brain at Brooklyn dot com. Brooklyn in his cell confident in there. Product that all their sheets comforters and towels come with a lifetime warranty. Whenever you. A new product. This is like the body wash bio clarity. The only twenty dollars off and free shipping is to use promo code brain, Brooklyn dot com. It's B R. Okay. L I N E N dot com. Promo code, brain, Brooklyn. They're the best sheets ever, you know, where they probably don't have Brooklyn sheets where in outer space, which is a real disadvant- considering a new company called space life origins is trying to procreate up in space. Okay. Which you know, you need to baby. Need a bed for about the luck? So company called space space, life origin is hate them stuff. I don't know do dumb. But like, they're basically, well, not they are they're looking for volunteers for women who want to give birth in space. No because they say they need to know information. If we need to colonize another planet, if we need to do something like that the first step is knowing if human life is able to be created in a zero situation, and if a birth can happen there. So this is all put in plan. They're they're going to start it in twenty twenty four and they're going to start recruiting people in twenty twenty two for this and Sudan apart is they're going to. They. It makes it sound. Like, they're going to just going to send up an incubator like send up a machine that fertilizes like sperm fertilizes, the eggs in space. And then the machine comes back. This is my understanding of it. It's not going to be two people who like get it on its base. That's what I'm gonna do. That's what I thought. I that's why I was like. That's weird. And also like no pressure, dude or woman, you know. And so they inferred they fertilize the egg. It comes back to earth. They make sure that it's like a viable pregnancy. Then they implant the embryo she lives on earth throughout the time of the pregnancy. Then at some point in our pranks, like eight months or whatever then returns back to space with a whole team. And she gives birth space. Come on how how what are your feelings, please share anti anti why? Well, I well. I mean, fine if you want to do it. But like I mean, I was talking don't wait who in the hell would voluntarily take that kind of risk. But I say who in the hell would be one of those people who say I'm going to go on the mission to Mars with a no return thing. It's different when it's you versus your bowl. Good point. Oh fuck. I didn't think about that. And I would never want to put do anything to put up. You're basically, turning your your mind about nail polish. My god. I didn't even think about it. Like that. Why I don't know. Oh, no. I mean, it's scary enough to do section or what kind of people are going to be recruited to volunteer for this. That's carry man in. I don't know that makes me sad. I mean, I get that scientists important, but not they spend to my baby. And what I'm also thinking is that it always comes back to the documentary three perfect strangers or three I was around. I always stand. Tuck. This would have to what the fuck that movie called three identical strangers. Thank you. And I think about the women who are recruited to be part of that experiment. And how they were a lot of them were schizophrenic mentally ill chosen. I wonder if it will be a recruitment process where they're like regular women aren't doing this. So we're going to widen the search parameters. Yeah. It's no exclusion parameters. Now. That's trouble Bruin, you wouldn't volunteer for any of monetary rise and. No, hell, no. Even for a lot of money. Nope. No. I I think that they're just there are certain people who are Kuku. Yep. It's it's the the actual berthing period will only be a twenty four to thirty six our mission, which makes me think have they ever been there for a woman's birth. Like like, the baby doesn't come out on your time. Schedule idiots. Yeah. Fucking wants to Judy gifts. Where she's like tapped ranch guys, we gotta get back here. Oh, like, a carefully prepared a monitor process will reduce all possible risks, really and western sandwich, even to have that on earth. They say similar to western standards as they exist on earth for both mother and child. Meanwhile, they failed to mention that women in the United States have the highest mortality rate of any. Western civilization any. I will country. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah, you're gonna be based on the standard that have the most dead people. Yeah. That's a great standard to follow. We're going to the most end people it'll lead. No, fewer people. My favorite thing is I knew you'd be met. I am. I knew it. I was like, ooh, definitely gonna be wants. This is going to be like. Speaking of dead people. In that same article creepy stuff me talked about how this was what was weird it said coffins used to have safety nets in them. That's what I need explanation. There was nine. And then it said like that it had an apparatus that would you could alert someone on land. We'll that's a bell not a safety net. What the hell are they using safety net is like the term like a safety net like a security like maybe, but they didn't say that's bad writing. It was gonna with. I just want that if I'm not cremated do that with the safety net bell. Yeah. When make sure you have that. And then have somebody like sit watch for like liable, personally, sit watch I will actually if in the in our last days, which I assume are going to be spent together in in a nursing home. I've already like set it up my mind where like we're gonna be playing scrabble well into our nineties. Yeah. And maybe hundreds and. If built the for me, you I definitely do that. I will sit by tombstone for a lease long enough to know that you're definitely cold. And you're definitely dead. I will just be waiting for knocking just in case. We've heard enough stories I'll mourn they'll be fresh flowers. No whistling. That my wake me up though, from whatever the only whistling. Gobi tons of whistling. So funny if you're going to ship something though. I have no segue on that. You should use stance dot com. This is convenient just like the Bill on the coffin that. I'm going to be in when one of the small things. Yes. Stamps dot com. Lets you print postage from your home or desk, and so you print it. And then you put it on your packet, and you put your package out and your carrier picks it up you don't have to go anywhere. You don't have to do anything. It's super easy super convenient and reliable and efficient. I've absolutely never had a problem with it one time, it is so awesome. Also used to semi to drop off. Yeah. And you've been four years to no nobody does throw it in the mailbox, and they come get it. They send you digital scale. So you get the exact postage are not gonna overpay. And you get better rates on postage as well. So now, you know, why we use stamps dot com because Dawson and right now you can enjoy this dams dot com service with. A special offer that includes a four week trial plus postage and digital scale without long-term commitments, go to stamps out com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in brain, candy that stamps dot com and enter brain candy. And it is as an aside the perfect time to do it. All it as how much stuff do you much? And so just try it four week trial. Save so much, and you're gonna get the scale and everything. Yeah. One funny thing from that article, though was about how the pope dot that cats were like from the devil, or whatever, you know, they go through those phases. So and so they like decided cats were evil and stuff. And so they everyone was killing cats. And then they think that's what caused the Bhubaneshwar. Because got it changed the ratio because they were too many rat. Yep. Yep. They're rats on rid of the change the food chain. Right. Great job Catholic church pope, God another way, which is what I say. Literally. Right. I didn't think about that. I sent a real funny. Message to my friend on Halloween who likes cats and also witchy stuff. Yeah. Shout out to friend. You know, who you are listening right now. She does out to friend. Yeah. No. I'm trying to keep a names. I sent her this picture, it said the reasons why which is always have black cat, and it was a white cat sitting on a pile of which is closed that are all black. And you know, how white hair gets all over black? That's. That's that's because they always were black clothes that is really actually good. That she was like, oh my God. That's hilarious. It's I'm thinking. Maybe that's true me to get a white cat. If I only world black too stupid dumb. Why don't we wear black low good? Because like, I think there's something more to it. It's gotta be like how the same way. This is just my theory. There's got their way. We hope you know. This just in that doesn't really no, no, I definitely speak. Thord with already talked about how Blackstone like like. Yeah. Draw energy. And we know that like black like jarver or even if you wear black clothes when it's hot outside the energy of sun. Maybe there's something about wanting to absorb energy to them be able to be a. See where black that absorbs it because also during a lot of which like witchy ceremonies that are more like. There. They wear all white. So it's like a purification. It's like a release of stuff. So I think there's like where black to absorb then where white flak. Yeah. Something there with. Okay. That might be that makes sense just there. Right. And also the nighttime like hiding thing you know, what I mean? Because don't they do a lot of their stuff at nighttime stuff? Yeah. I don't know. But if you ever watch room on the broom, no, but that's an adorable name their room on the broom, that's what a gruff alot. No. I don't even know what words you're saying. To me. Unless British you me, it's the you. Did you show me when Lincoln was a baby and used to and it was the witch? And then she has the cat on the broom, and the frog and the and then everybody on the broom own it's so cute. It's so watch it. I love room on the bro. So good. Yes. So cute. I love it. It's really cool. And then the gruff low is the same illustrator and everything and same type of style and very soothing. And I don't know why brought it up. But wait, what was the point because you were saying with stuff in the morning black and doing their stuff at nighttime and hiding and they but. But I do recommend like if someone 'cause it's on Netflix like it's so cute that I love all those little kid. Do you? Remember, the movie it was like a it was a book that then was. A movie or video that had no. Words, it was all just sound and is called the snowman. Oh, yeah. And it's like sad. Yeah. I'd love that you've seen it. Yes. Seen it. Like, I owned it. We watched it ever. And I recently, I don't know if it's this put it in my I was making list of baby books that I wanna get like things I wanna buy that were my childhood memory. I wanna rebuy to have my house, and I've already purchased a few of them. And this was one of them of the snowman. And I think you can watch it on Amazon to love. I loved it. It wasn't. You didn't feel traumatize? No because you're witchy origins. It didn't seem like it's a cartoon. I know, but it's word list. And also sad. Sad the velveteen rabbit movies like that too. That's what I hear. Oh, good. Classic. This is what I loved as a child. Why did I want your so weird? Oscar, the grouch your we've talked about this the snowman Suzy's your friends to please give me everything that I just I love that. What's going on here? Oh my God. This is I bought this pack a while ago. And this is these are these wonderful card Suzy for all of you who are on the radio and not in person with us is pointing to this card pack that I have that says, no yourself cards for self exploration. And I bought this pack after doing this with some girlfriends of mine, it's from a company called school of life. They're not sponsor, but I love them. And it doesn't the bag. It's hard to understand who really are what we want. How we feel what we react. And what we do. And it's basically just these questions that kinda give us a little bit of self knowledge. And they're good conversation starters. But I thought oh my God. What a fun thing to do on here too. Because that what maybe think about this when I asked you what your biggest pet. Peeve was. And we were like, oh, I don't know sometimes these things so like, oh, see I just pull this one out. It says what did you most enjoy doing child? Do you get those feelings now? No. So what did you most enjoy doing? When you were child performing. Okay. And do you get those feelings now? Well, yeah. To perform. Yeah. When we're on the Mike. Yeah. Yeah. This is super fun. It's the best part of my week. Same. But it's interesting you say like, that's what you wanted to do when you are child at. That's what you most enjoyed doing. But now, you don't still enjoy it. Yeah. I still enjoy. But maybe you don't feel the need to do it. As more of like, you is something that you do for fun or what then no, I I love just as much as ever. But like, you know, the starving artist thing. Yeah. Like, we're lucky because we can make a living doing what we love. But like most of my work life ninety five percent is the garbage. I never wanted to do. It's almost like you the in order to be able to do that thing that you most enjoyed doing a child which was performing you have to put an different kind of work on the back end. It was like a different kind of. But I bet if you didn't do this as a job you'd still do some even think that when you were professor. In fact, being server is type totally if you're every single job you've had actually I used to when I was little I would look at the server and be like, I want them up never thought that once. I was so jealous because they had the attention of the whole table. I thought I never wanted to with. I wanted the opposite. How what what what did you want to cook? Where do you wanna be? No, I want what it was your answer to the question. What did you most enjoyed? Creating. Yeah. Yeah. Arts are out the greatest I got this Ellison wonderland watercolor set that was like nice pigment. Watercolor beautiful. And it was like wooden box classic house and wonderland literature. Not movie, and I listen to God the movie Get Shorty came out the same year. And my dad had the soundtrack. I'd never seen the movie, but the soundtrack to Get Shorty is my favorite CD of all time. It is so good. And I think I was probably eleven when it came out all jazz. It's a lot of its instrumental. It's like weird abstract bands. And I listen to that music, and I painted that whole year, and it was the best year my life. I don't even know it was like my outlet. And do you now get those feelings? Oh, yes. But I don't do it as much. I don't recognize those more time for play. You know, it felt like if I'm not doing something that contributes to your Bank accounts. Like, what's the point? When really we should do. We should be doing more of that. I don't know if we should I don't know. I think it self care. I feel like it's a very post modern ideology. Like my grandpa worked in a steel mill. I guarantee 'em to you. He didn't enjoy that as a child and like did his job and was grateful for like an apple like not that it should be like that either. But it's a very like Hugh should have passionate Duke. Follow your passion. It's maslow's hierarchy of needs. Totally that I make sure all those needs are met. Then you get to do that fun stuff. Yeah. It's kind of a privilege thing. Yes. And that's why I kind of push back against it. Because I'm like, okay. Okay. But I think it's important for people even in the situation where you don't have that free time to pay attention to the things that you do with your free time with things that you do with like is it a hedonistic need or like an escapism thing or something that is contributing to your wellness. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. I get that. Yeah. Well, I is another book that I read recently that I want to go into a deep dive on another episode, but it was about the origin of the Myers Briggs personality test. And those two ladies. It is fascinating as we put a lot of from what I've heard we put a lot of emphasis on that. There's really not. It's a little the history is Kana packet can like the DSM where you're like. Yeah. But those should together, and we're putting a lot of. Yeah. Excellent basket. Yeah. But it reminds me of not that asking these questions is akin to that. But it's a similar feeling of like this feels indulgent like who cares? What I loved as a kid. But like, it's a self-denial thing. I, you know, everybody has to work through this shit, or I'm like, I shouldn't even be indulging in that. But that's even something to impact like the back of this car. The one of the nice things about the said is that it will ask the question, and it will give some sort of like scientific. I don't know. It has some explanation on the back some are more in depth than others that kind of validate feelings and things like that. And this one says a good career should be anchored around adult versions of the best childhood hobbies and sensations. Yeah. And that's true. Ideally yourself in a career where the best part of your debt week. Whatever is getting to do that thing that you loved as a child, and, you know, even though your grandfather had to work in the steel mill and those kind of things it's. There was something probably passionate about and I wonder if he had the it's like different life that we get to have now then back then. Yeah. But if you have the opportunity to put energy into something. You may enjoy your life more. If you put that energy into something that matches what your your gifts your gift what you were even drawn to as a child. But like I mean, just turn it on its head. You know, those people on American idol first few weeks that are so bad. And they think they're not bad. There's a real thing about that. What is that? I don't know. I'm talking about like. Yeah. Delusions of grandeur. If you happen to be good at something. And it's your passion. That's great. What if I wasn't good at performing? Right. And I kept being like, Nope. I love. No, I don't know. It's just like some people are really passionate about things. They're remember when we went to the comedy show. And there was the guy who was older and did the voices dad walked off, dude. And even the people who were hosting where like that was wears where oh my God. I was so uncomfortable for him. I did not have like an emotional bucket to put all of his feelings. Space. That's like visually create for myself as a therapist. I picture a bucket next to me. 'cause like I can't absorb everybody's feelings. It'd be too overwhelming. So I have to have this bucket next to me where like their emotions go in. I recognize them. I see them. But the end of the day I have to like make for nine on like let it go. And I just feel like oh my God. I didn't even have room in my bucket for everything going on with him. And that's not how you should feel at a condo. I was just like this the guy. But you know, what may know, he's never mind not take it. All back just about him a deep dive on this. And I'm going to keep this me. Questions because there's a whole bunch really fun.
The Brain Candy Podcast
Aired Last week 21:03
116 - Behind the Scenes
They. This is on structured everybody today. We have a returning guest or co host or. Partner in crime Brett. Yes. Open mic odd cast. We're doing another crossover show a quote behind the scenes number two. Number two, part do undoing good. It's been a good day. I enjoying a beverage here. Cheers. Yes. I have a proper central coast eight oh five I think it is. Yeah. I don't know. It's a California thing. I have no idea. I guess that's area code. Yeah. It's Petaluma California. So loader, Linda. Twit or this weekend tech. Yeah. What are you enjoying a left hand milk stout left hand is approved outside of Boulder, Colorado? Okay. Good winner. So is it. It's a milk stout. So as a little bit thick your and creamier. Yeah. It's like if you take like a Guinness stout or something, and then you lay like a milky overlay with little sweetener in it. Okay. So like a milkshake kind of in a way kind of that thick. So I have to talk about your most recent interview, the one that you just released the one that I was excited about so for those of you joining in. We talked about this interview, and Eric just released it, so we'll make that the focus this week on our behind the scenes, and then I have a tech issue that I wanna talk about. And put a called action outs. Anybody who might know something, but he will serve about your interview. How do you feel about it? How's it doing? It was awesome, by the way. Cool. It's doing well. As far as I know the numbers. Everything looks fine. I'm waiting to get feedback from people because I think it's a departure. I dunno others might think that it's completely on track with what I do, which is everything. But I don't know it went. Well, I. Im- very interested in the topic. But yet at the same time, I don't want to endorse view. I want to be open to anyone who wants to come on. But I'm not necessarily stating that I agree. One hundred percent with anything. Somebody says sure he definitely has an interesting. Interesting perspective, I have to say all hold my formal opinion to myself. But yeah, it was great. So you had mentioned that you were talking about maybe doing more of those types of things. What are your thoughts on that in particular? I'm not sure I do think that I enjoy talking about and speculating on different subjects, and I've already interviewed other authors. And if somebody comes forward or as good true crime bit with an interesting story. I enjoy talking about the subject I have other things coming up where that's going to be in line. So. I feel like that's a good addition to what I'm already doing. Yeah. I think you do really well at that. And those people are drawn to you naturally. I think just based on a lot of the guests. I don't know. No. I don't think. So. No, no, no. But I'm saying like you've had the FBI people. You've had all these different genres of people on your show. So that guests that you just had I think falls right in line with what you're doing. If that makes sense sure into preview for everyone, essentially, the guests John Ekberg, he wrote a book and the title the books. I get it. Right. Is OJ Simpson. And Glen Rogers colon the juice road dog and murder and Bundy drive. So why don't you sum it up for those listeners who may be didn't catch the episode yet on replay, which it's available everywhere. You stream your podcast, of course, except for Dora were hoping. Yeah. Pandora were hoping. Yes. But the bottom line of the episode is he wrote a book that speculates that OJ Simpson did not physically commit the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. In fairness, he's not saying that OJ Simpson is innocent. However, yes, he did not physically commit the acts. And as significant thing is theory is that a serial killer named Glen Rogers who was a real person on death row. Currently is the one who actually carried out the acts in front of OJ or among with Jay. Interesting. Yeah. It was a good upper sewed, and you know, to come at it from the perspective of that's a pretty big swing saying. And posturing that statement that he didn't actually physically do it. You know, I think most of America thinks that he did a good percentage. I would imagine. And that's too long jail term for relatively small crime in Vegas that was a punitive paymaster. Yeah. And I think that some people would say that his life is just a prison sentence. Just to all of the struggles that he has had you know, and that he's dealt with as just a person. But yes, I do agree with you that whole Vegas thing was definitely punitive for those particular actions rhetoric. Yeah. How long ago was that trial? That was like in the nineties, right? Yes. His trial is ninety four or nine. I five I wanna see I think it might be ninety five because the murder self was ninety four and a trot a win on. I don't know if you recall, but it was like eight months long. I do. Yes. I do insane. There's never been anything like it. At least prior to that. I can't think of another trial sense that's been that closely watched or or indepth. I mean, it was. It's actually kind of I I'm not trying to downplay. It's a horrible thing is a murder. Yeah. Of course, relatively small time. If you think about it. It was a a potentially the case was an angry husband who killed a ex wife and her boyfriend how many times has that go on in this country for it to be such a magnified incident for relatively come and crime. Yeah, I don't even think the lorraina baba case got that much attention, which is back in the news again. I don't know if you noticed that it is. Yeah. So they are falling up with both of them which that could be a good cast for you one of those two. Phooko or Lorena Bobbitt? Yes. So NBC, I think is now. John Bobbitt joy who is that. John baba Joey buttafuoco with Amy some Fisher ill K, even that the Long Island lead it so anyway. John Lee baba in the reign of Bob her back in the news now, and they are recounting the entire crime. It's like a whole nightly special at the doing I'm kind of interested. I was I vaguely remember that whole thing. But in any case, I digress at this point. But yeah, those are good interview. Good job on it. So how are you doing as far as other things you got some more fun things in the pocket coming up this week? Or are you just sure on a releasing 's little by little like we talked about before? I actually am building backlog. It's one of those I plan to slow down. But I still have a backlog probably come out with Robert king follow up next. Dr king out of really really fascinating guy. I have coming up. I'm super excited. I actually have an injury with us, Cheryl Atkinson. Oh, yeah. Let's talk about that. That was a big swing to up. It was and it. Was an out of nowhere. I reached out to her what seven months ago back in June. And I followed up and I never heard anything. And as you well know, that's not uncommon that throwing a stone into a lake and it just skips skips says that's how it feels with some of the guests inquiry. Yes, I agree. But then all of a sudden at the end of the year, she wrote back and said, I've been crazy busy, and I'm getting run to this. Now Dutta mine was thank you, ma'am. When can we meet? Awesome. So she's booked I yes, she is booked. I'm interviewing her this coming week com. It'll be on the phone because well, she had her computer hacked, and I'll see where she's a little paranoid about that. Well, yeah, that's part of her stories of her computer was tapped by the government. Oh, that's right. Okay. I've Egli remember that. Yes. Wow. So those are two big wins. Then that's awesome. Very cool. I have got Robin Hauser coming up this week. She is a local bay area. Filmmaker coup has a film on I a bias. Chandy right. Yes. She was with Randy. So Randy thank you for that connection. If you're listening, and I'm interviewing her this week. We're going to try and do it local. But it just didn't work out for her. So we're doing that by phone, and then I have Richard. Oh this week the internet lawyer, which was a referral through you and through interview connections. So I'm excited to talk to him. I'm actually doing some pretty hefty research on both of them but him specifically because his John r- is so Nishat that I wanna make sure asking the right questions. There's a a lot of good stuff to ask him about GDP are is an expert on that, you know, he's internet law. And I think I fire some questions your way that you may want did. Yeah. You sent me a couple. But and then, of course, the team over interview connections. They definitely provided a really great one sheet on him as well. So I'm excited about it. So I think we both have good weeks coming up. Oh, you use those. Kind of if I. Yeah. So for those listening one sheet is something that. Booking agent will send you then has all the info. And then there's questions on there. But so I know that five arches. Just ask. So yeah, Eric typically goes out from a completely different direction. And I try to as well, I had her interview this week with Damian Lupu, which was great. He is a venture capitalist. He's an entrepreneur if you haven't listened to the episode, it was a lot of fun. But his whole thing is rewriting the rules of retirement and investments and that just saving to retire is essentially a big waste of time. There's other ways to go about it as well. And disrobing helping Pitt will. Yeah, that's really his thing. So I know that kind of is low hanging fruit to leave. But really hear them. He thinks retirement is essentially, I don't want to misquote him. But it's dumb the way. At least the way that we traditionally look at retirement that there is better ways to prepare for retirement because it would take too long more needs to listen to it. Yeah. Everybody needs to listen. So it's vailable everywhere. And it's Damian. Lupo? It's great. It's the downloads on that one in the responses have been really good. He's he was a great guy to talk to. And that was my first official interview on squad cast shut out to those guys. I I only made the switch second view second interview with you. But outside of us. You could practice. So it was different talking to him face to face. I I was a little bit nervous to be honest with me for a started. Because when you're interviewing a phone or you're doing it through Skype phone, you don't see the person so sure anonymity. But when you're looking at him face to face like this. There's a lot of things that are different. You know what I'm saying? So I can see what you're doing. And you can see what I'm doing. So I told him. Hey, I've got my questions on this monitor over here. So far look over. I'm not ignoring your trailing off. I'm just reading my notes. I don't know if there's a better way to do that, actually. Yeah. Shut up to the squad. Cast guys have already talked to them about it. So I'll just put it out there. Again. I want a notes function underneath the window of the guest that would be awesome. Then I'll copy and paste right into their. So as I'm talking I can scroll up and down and seem like I'm looking right in the eye. But I'm actually reading the notes that same. Yeah. Yeah. So I know they probably listen to your show. I don't know if her mind, but they that would be great function to have is to have notes that you can look at. Yeah. So that's it for me. When more guest, I wanna talk about that. I had recently was chase heaters. And I know. Yes. Thank you for that too. He's awesome. Chase. You're the best. I actually you. You actually put me on or put him on my radar. Yeah. He reached out to me like months ago on link, Dan. And it took us a while to get connected. But let's talk about how that went for you when great and ironically, he's local. So we still had to do it online. It's one of those weird things where even though he's local he's in Virginia Beach in Hampton bridge tunnel. And you have only so many hours in the day. He had an event England he had to go to and then he had to cancel because his kitchen was flooded. And you know, there's always different things. But when you break it down. Getting your together for their moat. Recording get in the Bickel drive over meet the person, you're adding a lot of time to a lot. Whereas here I'm wearing like a lounge pants right now. Just. Jonah's right now. We're just chilling. You know, it's instant, I literally can tell you ready. Fifteen minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let me finish watching this TV show with a wife, and then I come hearing a record. Yeah. I was watching his show to actually on Netflix. So imagine that. So that's what's so handy. So even though we are recording online. It's still makes or even though we are local we could still record online, and it's helpful. But like the interview it's the first probably several, okay. He's a kind of tandem with another guest on Mark Bodin, and there may be tie in with the Joe Navarro, hopefully, or okay, Berkeley, Joe kind of like Joe come come to the dark side. Yes. Have you Shane com to on before Shane contin? She's a body language expert. I she runs in circles with all those guys why reached out to her today to try and get her on. She works with chase on certain things, and I reached out to her through link, Dan. And I haven't heard into it's Saturday. So, but anyway, that's that just to kind of caveat off of what you were talking about. Yet a good interview with chase. That went really, well, what do you think you'll talk about the next time or you just going to continue on with what you discussed the first one was just kind of get to know him. Sure. And. Then I will. Go down one of the tracks. Chases the unique guy like Mark Boden is a body language guy and communications guy period, or you know, that's a specialty. I'm sure he does more. But he's no mostly for that. So I kind of got to know, Mark. But I dug into market is acting background who he was and running naked striking for the Nike commercial things like that which are important. That's crazy. I completely I didn't even realize he was that guy. I dig but. It's it's a lot of fun. It helps you get to know people now with chase though. Chase is he's a squirrelly character. And I'm sure it'd be flattered by that. But he is into interrogation. Into body language as well. But then his body language is. Almost targeted. Now. The difference between the two is like Mark bonus kind of you know, he's in the acting world he still very much into the acting world and the professional world, and it's about how to make business relationships in, you know, read other people or more importantly how to project your body language. So you're presenting yourself in a good manner. I mean, how do you change somebody else? You really can't. But you can change yourself and have other people react to you better that chase those that too. But then chase also does the dark side of it or the very realistic side of it where he teaches cops, and I've actually attended one of his courses with them cops and his body language. It'll save you his life. Yeah. And that I think is. In. Outstanding quality. It's definitely definitely cannot overlook. Now, the other things that he does because that's the fun part. He not only does body language, but he also does interrogation and nip Yele Shen and God Turkish manipulation I mean, literally hypnotize people mind control, essentially, Mike, thank you building Manchurian candidate. So he gets all the way to the dark side. And if you hear that chime just now, I apologize everyone. But Brett was kind enough to remind me that I needed to shout out someone who emailed in. I don't know if anybody remembers but last up saying, hey, please Email me at unstructured p g mail dot com. And brett. At. Open mic guests, gee mill dot com. Are you? I'm history. Not so subtle cue. Sorry looking right at me. I could see Eric. So I he just was like. Yes. Open my guest to mill dot com. Yes. Okay. Unstructured Pia gmaiLcom, but I was really really flattered and I'm very thankful her from somebody. And I hope I get the name wrong. I say that a lot but Bruno Amaro or immoral from Lisbon Portugal. Yes. All the way across the pond, which it blew me away. He literally said you wanted us reach out. So here it is. And you know, what that that didn't make my day that made my year last year. That was awesome. Yeah. That was awesome. I just wanna thank him, you know, so much for reaching out. He's also in the instructor Facebook group now to very cool. All right. That's awesome. Bo we're at twenty minutes. How can people listen to your show work on structured everywhere and my show? The open mic podcast is available everywhere as well. Until next time into that. If you go to. I tunes you may have to search for Allen A L L A N. It doesn't always come up with open mic. Yeah. So there's a whole nother story about the title of my show. We can save that for the next time quite long, but it has changed multiple times to what it is now. And it's great. Thank you already. Eric think very much and everybody for listening and joining in we appreciate it. We'll talk to you soon. Cheers. Cheers.