20 Episode results for "Look Technology"

A Modern Talk with David Frangioni

Drum History

59:09 min | 4 months ago

A Modern Talk with David Frangioni

"If you like drum history and would like to support the show head over to drum history. Podcast DOT COM click the Patriots link? You can contribute as little as two dollars a month and get some really cool perks now onto the show. Look into the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today. I am very honored to be joined by David. Francioni the publisher of Modern Drummer magazine. David how are you? I'm doing great. Thank you Barak. Great to be here everyone And it's An and as I said that I was thinking you have a lot of different titles. I mean you are an audio engineer. You work in studios. You're an author You've got all sorts of cool stuff on. You're you're a busy man yes You know a lot of things happening and They all interconnect even though it may not look like it at the surface and I know that Many of the things I do are fulltime jobs for a lot of people But I've found a way to combine all of these different passions that I have into a career and And it's you know it's amazing very very blessed very grateful. Yeah I think It's probably across guitar and Bass but I think musicians are really good about making things work for them like if you like audio engineering and drumming you can put it together and find out. Find a way to make that work So well in their hand in glove as well right think about how much CH- Audio engineering comes into play to be a part of what you do I mean. You're you're an engineer Drummer Yuppie. You know that those are very very useful powerful musical tools to have you know from a technology and an audio engineering input yet and I think now more than ever because we live in an era where you can't just say. Oh I'm an engineer. You can't say I'm a tracking engineer. I'm a mixing engineer. Hire me you basically. I think for a lot of people. What makes them stick out his? Oh also good after-effects or I'm also good with Photoshop. And it's like Ooh you stand out you have an extra little something. So it's it's you know as a drummer. It helps to know able ten into no pro tools so well I agree with that Bart and I'd like to expand So that everybody can take away from this time. We're spending together some really valuable things that they can apply to their own life and one right now Is You have to be a multitasker When we talked a minute ago about all the different types of careers I have and and and all the different businesses CETERA. It all stemmed from very early on like literally before I was a teenager. I was starting to see playing the music business at such a young age as a drummer. Having very big aspirations I was starting to see even that young eleven twelve plan in clubs and playing in bands. That if you put all your eggs in one basket it's not only very scary for making a living but it's also very limiting to how far you can take your your goals your art. So it's twofold we've got to be able to make a living to be pros in what we do and in order to do that. You know when a project comes along you have to be ready enable to do it. I also believe you should be passionate about. It shouldn't just be about having a career path to make money. It should be about finding career pads that you're really passionate about and they're really important to you. They almost do for free. If you could make a living otherwise And that for you and when you combine some of those you know you just really turned into a professional that has a lot to offer any project so if you just look at the example of a drummer engineer Which you know if we go back Dave wackle to me. One of the greatest drummers ever will always be one of the greatest drummers ever and I followed his career from when he was in Bridgeport Connecticut commuting to New York City and starting to make noise in New York City With French toast and and the whole way through and in my point in doing in following his career and understanding that is he was always multitasking. Even though he was one of the world's greatest drummers and becoming one at that time he learned about latronic she learned about sound he learned about the studio and all of these different talents that he didn't just have an awareness of but he actually worked on it and an expertise in them. That really took it to another level so now you have one of the world's greatest drummers gets great sound understands the studio can collaborate with the team live or in the studio on. Hey I think we should do this or that to get a better drum sound and it's just such a powerful combination to launch and have a career from so that's what I I'd like to really encourage everyone hearing us today. Take a look at where you're at if you're already doing two or three things And you and you love what? They're what you know what they are. You may still have a long way to go in terms of following The pursuit of them growing your ability within them but point is that you know if you're if you're good with what you're doing and where you know what the combination is then from there. Don't stop grow learn. Put yourself in uncomfortable situations so you can really grow even faster and if you don't do that if you're if you're someone right now listening to us and you're doing one thing just beware that you know it's it's you're limiting yourself for no reason and And you're really in a position where you're not being conservative enough in a music related business or most businesses for that matter if something should go sideways Or a project should come along that you need to be able to do one more thing to get It'll be too late so do it on now and I think that's really important. I'll tell you guys a really interesting story when I first started working with band. Arrowsmith which I've now been working with them since one thousand nine hundred eighty nine thirty one years. I think and when it when I first started I was doing a lot of technology work and I remember The Guy saying to me you know. Look Technology's really important to us. We have a lot of need for what you're doing but we also need you know other aspects of of the studio help you know. You'll engineer on this day or You know do you know work on the console another day or you know fly samples another day whatever and And I remember thinking to myself in. This was all like in a split second because it was a very it was a real time conversation. I remember thinking I've got to push myself like they would describing some things that I had. I didn't have a lot of experience at that time. Some of the things. I was already very very accomplished in other things. I was learning and And I made the call to like really jump into a scary as hell because I'm working for my idols. At that time it was the biggest GIG that I had. I had some great credits prior to our but but not long-term credits they were just like you know. I went and worked with Elton John for week. Right in the projects over. And you know that was that But with our Smith was ongoing so it was very very scary to kind of look at this amazing Group heroes a mind this opportunity and it was. You know as amazing. Yeah I mean everything you're saying is so true and you're faced with those moments where you think like it just makes you like your heart. I don't know if I can do this. You new task comes but I always think that's like a benchmark like the after that you go okay. Well it can't be as hard as that last. You know at that point monumental task so you really like I just think everything builds up like everything gets easier after you do those. Your next mega thing that you're super nervous about whatever. It is a big session that you're not the you're out of your element on your alone you're doing. You've always been an assistant now. You're doing it alone right. Everything's easier adults growth moments. Yes milestones like checkpoints. I mean it's just it's it's a huge thing so everything is so reluctant Bart in the moment the aftermath is what you're describing. It's a huge. Transformation was life changing but in the moment is no less scary. And it's almost. There's almost an equation. Where the scarier it is. The bigger the outcome will be. I think that That's that's what you've got to remember it so much easier to say than do but you gotta do it. You can't just say you gotTa do it She only way you grow. We could use a million examples. We want to use a very simple one. I think everybody gets it at this point but if we want to use a simple one you go to the gym. You know you work your muscles and until you're sore and then you stop and then you recover in whole process whether you realize it or not as you breaking your muscles down and you're actually you know you're working them in that way. It's the same thing in this race. Where you're you're actually breaking your feet. Your fear out yeah totally. I'm a big believer in And I always think about this to myself. I'm like man if I started to say like even you know playing the drums for all right if I started playing guitar like two years ago. Imagine where I would be at now. I would be two years deep like no matter. How old you are if you start now. Yeah fast forward. Two years you're going to be great but if you don't start then you'll be no further along in. That's obvious but again I always even with exercise or whatever you just gotTa start so will you wrote a mile and starting is so easy to talk about. But you know there's a lot of people always have a reason And they don't even realize they have a reason you know I. I see a lot of people that come to me for advice in I'll I'll cons- you know one of the things that I do is making a living as consultants and so people hire me to You Know Give Them. Guidance advice on many different levels for many different views usually around music entertainment business almost exclusively but nonetheless The ideas are very similar where someone will come to me. And I'll do a deep dive and really start to unfold like what's going on and they won't even realize how they just let distractions rule and they don't even see the distractions as distractions. But they just get to the end of the day and they go while you know like I'm I'm not anywhere I haven't started anything. Maybe I put my little foot in in the in the pond but for five minutes. But I really haven't done anything. And it's all these little distractions all these little things that it's all fear Just holding people back and it's disguised in many forms. But you know you really starting is underrated. You know you really have to get out there and start. So that's our advice. Now you and I are really aligned on modern drummer right. The number one dramatic Zine in the world that I had the privilege of becoming publisher and CEO of Fairly recently and It is the Drumming Bible. It is established in nineteen seventy seven And here we are in this moment. I hope this You know the stay home Goes away soon. People can get back to work in and be healthy and safe But if people are listening to this especially during a stay home moment You know we just got a lot to share and bring value to their lives with today. I'm very excited. Bart. Yeah absolutely so. Let's let's go way back and and I do want to mention to before we go back and talk about the beginning of modern drummer. I saw you speak at the Chicago drum show last year when I think was very close to your coming on board and And it was great. Saves very impressive was that I came on as publisher then and then recently Added Co two. My role will congratulations. I think huge I mean like you said it's just. It's the Bible for drummers. I mean it is it is an. It's earned that it's not like It just sort of happened. I mean it's been a long time so You're the man in charge now. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the history of the magazine going back into the seventies and And how it started and has as much as you can can lay on us. Well Ron SPAG Nardi. God bless him. He and his wife Isabelle started modern Drummer magazine. Ron had the idea In you know the the early seventies for years he had this idea that he wanted to create a drum magazine where everybody could congregate in the drumming world. We didn't have anything like that. And so on so many levels. It's it's so necessary and he created it out of their basement. Launched Modern Drummer. It was nineteen. Seventy seven was the first issue Buddy rich volume one number one. Of course buddy. Of course how appropriate the magazines just took off and it became an is today the top brand in what people know in the drumming world. I literally was a question on jeopardy. You know what magazine do. Drummers read And Modern Drummer. It's unbelievable so it's really it's really earned as you said. It's reputation is the number one brand in the world of of what unifies and educates informs and updates drummers when someone is in modern drummer drummers. Either on the cover or feature. Seguin winning an academy award annually. You're forty three years into modern drummer. You know that's almost half a century and that's we are the only drumming resource that's completely neutral. That's been around that long. That is this trusted and has so many different tentacles to every issue that we publish all of the digital that we curate where it's unbiased and it's versatile so in one issue of modern drummer you read about your favorite drummers or drummers that will become your favorite drummers or you read about your peers you read about what guys are up to read about the current hottest skier you read about the current and hottest products and As well as like you know. Cd streaming music. That's out in video. That's out now Drummers Online percussionist Drum Corps Jazz Rock Metal Latin you name it and You get a lot of education you know. So there's a lot of exercises and a lot of really great insight so one issue takes you weeks to really get through We'VE PRICED IT. So they literally one trip to starbucks and you have an entire month of modern drummer online. All forty three years in the archive as well as the current issue. I mean it's six ninety five a month thrall access We made it insanely affordable. Because we WANNA continue to grow in. Have all drummers? Be a part of this. Because that's how the magazines got to the point. It's at now is drumming. Community wants a needs in respects the fact that there is a voice for their community. There one place that they can trust. And they know that what they see what they learn is valid. You can't say that about any any place else especially the Internet of. There's a lot of theories a lot of ideas out there. But what you get a modern drummers the real deal and And if you were to go out on the Internet you would spend way more time than seven bucks a month no matter who you are what you're doing To put together everything that we hand to to a drummer in one issue. We already go through the process of okay. What's the newest here? What are the newest releases who the hottest drummers who were the drummers that are icons but are doing new things right now who's come onto the scene who's left the world and we need to acknowledge You know who's you know plan studio or to do some cool gangs whose releasing signature series product on and on and to curate. That takes a team one of the best teams in the world of season pros at modern drummer. Full-time WORK FOR US on staff. So one person going out there and try and do that on their own would be you know a big waste of time because we already do it for you and we do it really well. And I think that's how the magazine as got to the point where both in print and digital it is still number one in the world by far and the interesting thing is I when I was in NAM recently You know this was the fact that a lot of people were surprised about it and paused in realized. Oh yeah that makes a Lotta sense and that is our print. Product is bigger than ever drummers. Love to hold Modern Drummer magazine. You would think instinctively because the news print world has become so commoditised and just the general infrastructure for obtaining print product newsstands and bookstores. And all of that are just going away as fast as you blink. But modern drummer print is bigger than ever amazing. Of course most of those people are through subscriptions rights have to. Why would you go to a newsstand when you for your truly a? Bach you can get it delivered to your house And it's It's amazing it's how strong as and when I was at NAM and I was sharing that at first a lot of people were like well while that that kind of bucks the trend and then I would ask them well. Do you read modern drummer. Everybody said yes. Thank you and I asked will. Do you have your back issues or do you read it. Throw it out and I'm telling you not one person said they throw the magazine out and that was the moment like y. You know what I do. I have a stack of modern drummers and I do use them as a as a resource and I do enjoy keeping them Some people put the covers on their wall. Some people you know. Take pictures of him. Some people use them for social media. I mean there's so many incredible things you can do with it of course holding magazine and having the notation to be able to write on it And put it on a music stand or photocopy page to us on a Gig or a practice room. There's just it's endless so really. It's really great. How the magazine? It's print product and of course all the things we're doing on digital because the magazine started his life. Strictly print nineteen seventy seven. That's all there was. Ron Innovated a lot of things you know he innovated drum festivals. The modern drummer festival was always a huge deal. We're going to bring those back Sands huge digital. We've revamped our entire digital world. Where what we're covering and all of that for subscribers right what? We're covering what we're putting on our website while putting You know through all of our different channels is just incredibly helpful and insightful. Two drummers absolutely so personally I have a little like been every year as a kid you know. It'd be Christmas present. Here's your modern drummer subscription for this year here it is for this year so I have and years and years of him and what I do is I take like if I'm going on a trip or something Obviously have the new one that I've read but I'll take an old one because I love just looking back in two thousand one in two thousand five whenever and just seeing what was happening then and like you said nothing is ever like out of date. Maybe the technology has changed but even then coming from my angle of the history of things. You can look at it and go. Wow that's changed a lot or that technology I didn't know that company existed then or are all these things so And another thing I think is cool is I think in a lot of a lot of forms of media. People don't like advertising and go. Oh you know you're watching Hulu or whatever it's like here's another ad I enjoy looking at the drum adds to see who's endorsing what and I think that's a really rare thing with With drumming and it's even with the modern drummer podcast where I hearing. Who's spotlight like dream symbols as always a sponsor I like hearing that because It's it's our industry. It's an industry magazine. Which is what it is so so. It's kind of cool to see like okay. Vinnie's plan Piketty now whoa cool you know you. It keeps you in the loop even on that level so if you can have your advertising be something that I'm interested in I think that's that's huge. You know well I couldn't agree with you more The fact is that the ads are as much of interest to drummers like you described as as the content in the magazine as they go hand in hand. We drummers love to see who's playing what we love the creativity of the ads I mean think. About how many ads are so iconic that buddy rich playing the Tuba on the Zil Jihad? You know from the indies eighties. If I couldn't play Zilja nights switch instruments buddy sitting there with a Tuba of there's just so many iconic ads and I'm you know I really truly. I really truly hope that that get comes back bigger and stronger than ever and I hope that as as the manufacturers have see changes inside of their organizations and younger people or different people come in to their organizations who may not have the history to see to have seen those ads and know what we're talking about in how who'll impactful they are. I hope that that catches up and I hope that that you know on all sides of it. It comes back in a moderate way right. We don't WanNa see the same ads from the seventies and eighties. Nobody thinks that but the same the same emotion when you know when you a lot of companies really get what we're talking about and then there's a few out there that really don't get it they don't they don't understand that when a drummer sees you know Mike Portnoy behind this amazing one of a kind drum get and he in they see you know Tom of the strongest name in drums And you know that that has a huge impact that if they don't see another ad or they see another ad is just a picture of drum kit or two picture of you know some something really simple and basic kind of year like A. There's no comparison than the emotion. What that's going to do to the drummer's decision man. I've never thought about that. That is so true. Well I mean the endorsement in drumming is so important of oh. I love that drummer A he plays d-w now. I want to grow up in by. Dwi I remember seeing the drummer from system of a down when I was like thirteen. And he was playing Thomas Star classics. And then my first real kit that I bought was star. Classic Kit so it. Just is like we're impressionable. I mean you know because drummers come up especially when you're twelve or thirteen big time we we liked gear so We do and we love an MD. Wsa great you know just happens to be one of the best drum drums in the world. And what a what an incredible Incredible Incredible Company But it's but you're right. They you know we drummers love this we love seeing who's not only who but how what and you know what modern drummers been focusing on and we've ratcheted up considerably earn stay home right now is bringing content. That's applicable to right now. So I'll give you an example. I'm personally doing a fifteen day series one day for fifteen days. That's basically like a minute or two long and it's a exercise. Each day is a different exercise out of a really really well known book either Master Studies or New Breed Dharma Lowers. It's your move and Annum focusing on a specific exercise or set of basic exercises where demonstrate them video notation based? I tell you exactly what book will work out of. What page I show you the transcription on screen. I play it and describe it. This is what you do was supposed to satellite and these are incredible shop builders that in one to two minutes you can understand the exercise and then go practice it all day as long as you want. Whenever I'm halftime. WanNa Make Time. And then the next day it'll be something new for fifteen days and in we're going to keep them up of course online so people could go back and do the fifteen days or any any one of the days whenever they want. But this is something so relevant and important drummers right now because it's going to have a huge benefit for them they're playing is going to improve very quickly for the least amount of time and a zero investment. They don't want to buy the book they don't need to put exactly what they need on the screen and there. It is and those kind of initiatives that were really passionate about because we want all things to all drummers to be available all the time and of course our subscribers we're gonNA get incredible benefits because of how much were curated. The content and the print product and the proprietary digital products on our website that early for subscribers the VIP contests that we do for our subscribers. Give the drummer some VIP. Jon Bon Jovi on a Mediterranean cruise. Or you meet the Alice Kansallis from now on stage at the La Forum and he can just snare drum and a symbol on. Then you watch the show from the front row. I mean amazing things. You can't buy in our subscribers Can get them just for entering by being subscriber for free and we sponsor them they're not underwritten so it's really you know that's that world but if you're not a subscriber we still want to bring a lot of content and add value to you and And so that's one of the things like we're doing the fifteen day Stay home exercises for. Everybody is free online Part of modern drummer. We're going to do with Mike Dawson And Michael Melinda digital editor. We're going to do a at myself. A streaming Famous DRUMMER NOT. They won't be live streams in the sense that there little literally live at the moment. But they're going to be premiered streaming events Just much better for drummers to have You know to have an edited product for how we want to deliver it. And then we'll do as and that kind of thing works better for how we envision what we're doing and trying to do it live and a little more limiting and then now we'll stay Online you know forever and that will be free to everybody. Who's interested so it's really this balance of you know if you're in the club you know this endless amount of content value and if you're not then you know you still have an amazing amount of content and value where you can learn about things. Learn how to play better for for Only investment of time which you need to put in any way and And of course you know hear about what drummers and drums earlier in our up to right now. It's pretty exciting time. That is I mean so. You guys are the Goliath in the drum world. Obviously so I think there's a lot of responsibility there on how to handle these times. That are you know people are at home and and and giving them things to work on. So I think you're you know with great power comes great responsibility and I think you're handling it well of sane. This isn't a time to be like. Wow Man dangled the carrot. And be like if you want this you gotta pay for no no not at all at the opposite this. You're absolutely right bar. This is the time where we have to. We have to be all things to all people. there's GonNa be people that You know don't don't have a need For subscribing for whatever reason And we still WANNA bring value. You know it's it's about bringing value to drummers and it's really almost like a better and best if you want best you subscribe and with it comes all of these extra things but if you just one better in his good enough for what your needs are then you just go on our socials and And they're free and they're amazing what we're delivering so it's yeah it's it's not about like trying to convince anybody to do anything to spend money. It's about being a central resource for You know four drummers and drumming all styles all ages all types internationally domestically just every aspect of drumming we cover and we do it You know for free. Basically on our socials as as kind of the better product and then best to subscribe yet and I don't think it should be glossed over speaking of free that I personally I know a lot of the people. Listening are huge fans of the modern drummer. Podcast and I would definitely give them an I. Mike Mike Mike and Mike Credit for being a massive inspiration for me to even start this. I mean I've heard every episode and that's like two hundred thirty five hours of it. Love it thank you. Yeah they're great. They're great I mean we. We love what they're doing. It's it's in a very specific niche. And they do such a great job. They're very passionate course incredibly talented One of a kind. Both those guys in the great great podcast and we're going to be looking to do another podcast product. That's totally different from what they're doing. Coa In the near future you know. So it's it's really about covering all the different basis Because everybody has you know. I don't want to do a bad drum pond in say different strokes for different folks But the fact is that you get it full stroke half-stroke fact is that you know that that there's so many the great thing about drumming in the in the drummer's world is that there's so many different lanes to it and every one of them is a lifelong pursuit and every one of them is incredibly fulfilling and brings a lot of joy to people's lives if people in drum corps that will never play. Bass Drum with their foot at you. Know a trap kit and And they couldn't be happier and they'll they'll be the rest of their life. Go up down the field and loving it when they get a tool to to hold the drum himself. They'll get out front and teach the next generation. They Love Drum Corps. He got guys will only play jazz guys only play metal you know in a Cetera et Cetera et CETERA. And so all of those types of you know we wanNA fill their needs with with everything they need. They need the relevant product reviews for with their into They need to know who the drummer in. Inspirations are for what they're into what releases affect them that they want to check out. There will help the course all the education so so all of these place holders actually have many different lanes within them so it's endless amounts of content that we're producing for people because there's endless endless amounts of consumption that they that helps the one thing that I have personally been working on with. My show is getting messages from people saying hey I'd like to hear something about more Like marching or military drumming. And I did not come from that background. I came from playing in rock bands and doing studio stuff so I need to like get out of my own. What I like world and trying to cater to people who I'm just beyond honored they're listening to the show and give them something that they want to hear and I think obviously modern drummer as a great job of that so I kind of look at that as an inspiration of okay. You know little bit of everything for for everyone is what's best will thank you. You know we we absolutely We try you know we. We definitely put a lot of emphasis on versatility covering all the different basis. And really making sure that there's something for everyone but but with meat on the bone you know like not just a little you know nothing just for the sake of you know like a headline in okay. This is for You know a percussionist and this is for at somebody strictly plays or castrol. Now know this. If we're going there were going deep on it. Re giving you substance That really helps You know your goals and your life. Yeah and if people don't know from this conversation yet that it is a great magazine and people should absolutely check it out And I want to switch gears because we were talking before about the stay home Sort of mindset. And if you're listening to this ten years down the road we are currently in the middle of the coveted nineteen corona virus Pandemic were literally. It's it's sweeping. The world and people are forced to stay home. I mean odds are you're listening to this in a couple of weeks and you're right there with us more all altogether But I do think there's one cool thing and I've been talking with a friend in New Zealand. Andrew Rooney who has the New Zealand Drummers podcast the NC drummers podcast and he's talking about the problems he's having as a drummer he's literally halfway across the world. We are all in this together. I mean we are all being affected and even I do like video and audio freelance stuff. I have been wiped out as a freelancer and I'm sure everyone is in the same boat with with gigging so I think people would like to hear from you will affectionately call you the boss. Because you're the boss of modern drummer. What do you? What do you say about all this? What people are out of their gigs right now. Like what's maybe give him some some words of of hope. Well here's the thing You you have to use this time to get real on a couple of different levels. The first is you have to take a look at what you're doing. This is one of those moments in time that will not only forever changed the world at large but will will and should change our world your world and so in order to do that you have to first take a look at. What am I doing right now am I do? I like what I'm doing because this is the time to change your gun. If you ever heard the saying you got all the time in the world this is literally you have all the time in the world and you probably will. Let's hope you never have this amount of time again in your lifetime. So this is the moment where you do have all the time in the world and with that the first step is get real de alike where you are. Do you like what you're doing. The answer is no find what you do like once you do that. And for the people who answer is yes. The second step is you have to take right now to grow and improve consciously get online and take courses refresher courses new courses practice. Start Your online business. If that's part of what your passion is an fits into your goals. If you're drummer get to the pad get the Kit. And this is the time where you really explosively grow and the people that come out of this with huge evolution are GonNa be the people that always look back at this moment and say that was the moment that not only changed our lives but changed my life and I know this is heavy stuff in it is and should be it needs to be because that's what it is and this is your life doesn't get any bigger heavier than that. This doesn't have to overwhelm you. It just has to consume you in a manner that you really take it seriously and you take decisive action. So the decisive part is step one. Where am I And choosing where you WANNA go right so if it's where you are now great step two is now going to actually take steps to improve and I'm GonNa Practice and really GonNa take it to the next level in step three is get a mentor. Make sure you're not asking your boyfriend girlfriend or mother or father how you sound or how you look or how your business is going. Because chances are they'll say great and that won't be the case you need right now a mentor. You need guidance. You need someone or some group that will say to you. You know. Look No. That's not really that's not really how it is. That's like no you're you're you don't you don't sound as good as you think. Or you know. It doesn't groove or doesn't you know or doesn't feel like this feel like that's you can go back to step two and keep fine tuning it and that's how you're really going to accelerate your growth and then with those three steps when this is over and you have to get back to the real world and no longer will you have all the time in the world. You will have had explosive transformation. And that's what I wish for everybody. man very well sad and I think just jumping off that last point of It's a slippery slope of working in isolation like you said because you you think that you may sound great but you don't want to go in practice the wrong thing for three months and then go boy practice the wrong thing so having those check ins where fortunately we live in time now where you can connect with people for free via like zoom or whatever the APPS you want us to video chat and And I think people are everyone's at home that's the beauty and I'm like I'm like cleaning up with interviews because everyone's at home and they can't escape me so I'm right we will. That's you know that's the way it should be. You're doing you're doing exactly. What is the best thing you could be doing? Is that the. That's one of your passions is to have this podcast an through drum history. Podcast bring you know the these various people in subjects to the world At no cost and And now the access that you have is grown substantially and so you're taking advantage of it And that's in everyone scenario. It's easy to understand in your case because you would have been at home or in a studio in isolated anyway right. But you're you're multiplying because you see that now's the time where people are available to talk and it's easier to schedule etc but the fact is that everybody in every field has a similar opportunity. You may have to go a little deeper to find it in. You may think a little harder. Maybe even go outside the box but you gotta do it because this is you know. This is a one and done time period and and I'd like to see everybody make the most of it. I also did an instagram posts for anybody that wants a you know a little more explanation on this on my At David Francioni instagram and Talk exactly about what you just ask. Which is you know. What should people do right now in the stay home? I saw his Gra. And it'll that's how people grow. I think it's cool to and it's really across some industries. But I like how right now people are like like unlike online lessons. Like the one that comes to mind. Is I know Dan Bailey. Who's great very predominant? Drummer is releasing his like master. Course he was like sixty six percent off or something because it's like everyone's at home use the content. Don't you know it it's like let's bring down the price let people actually buy it Which I think is very noble. Now that being said I do see like Nike doing it and stuff which you know that might not be. That might be more like buy shoes. You not as like you know. Pure is a drummer doing it but I think everyone has good intentions and is just trying to build each other up and in the I always say up at the drumming community very special. Where be at your jazz drummer or metal drummer. We we all really want to help each other So I think we're lucky to have to not be alone. We're we're altogether through so hundred percent Yeah I mean. The drumming community is is so connected and such a brotherhood sisterhood. It's IT'S AMAZING. and You know that's another thing that that I've always thought was so important about modern drummers that you've it's it's it's vital to the drumming community is as anything could ever be because that's what you're only community when you're acting in a in the manner of a community and in order to have that central place where everybody has would which really kind of dictates the community. It can't just be drummer scattered all over the world who loved drums it all has to be centralized to actually turn into the immunity were referring to and that's modern drummer gives it so. I think you know between what everybody has to do with stay home and in that central place of modern drummer listening to resources such a podcast. and really taking a good hard look at what they're doing and how they can improve. This will turn into a moment in time. That will change your life. Yeah absolutely and I do think it's important to stay to save for people like you know it's hard to do it but really staying home and I don't WanNa get political or anything at all because I'm not a political guy but staying home really is very important because that's the only way to stop. I mean people are dying so it's really a very effective way. You literally like everyone keeps saying it but you just have to stay home. There's no there's it's it's relatively easy. Just stay home and don't go out and don't see a bunch of people so well I see most people do in that right. Yeah of course I mean that's one hundred percent right now as we get closer to the end here. I think it would be really neat. You yourself have a very interesting background. So you wrote the book crash which features tons of really cool drum sets. You've worked with major band. So why don't you Take a few minutes and just let people kind of meet the new. Ceo and publisher of Modern Drummer. And tell us about you well. David Francioni My world actually started before I was born because my parents who met right after my dad got a World War Two They're dreaming goal was to have a family and they ended up not being able to have children for over fifteen years of their their beginning of there from the beginning of their marriage. On for no reason the doctors couldn't tell him why so they literally just kept trying to have kids and and you know just kind of accepting the fact that as I got older and older that they may never have this family that they dreamt up then they had my brother John. Three years older than me and he was like a miracle kid to them like. Wow the dodgers couldn't explain why they couldn't have kids and they couldn't explain why they finally did advocate so this was all big mystery and then they had me And that that's my family. My Mom and Dad who are no longer with us on my brother and myself and when I was two I got diagnosed with Retina Bostonians which is cancer the eye and they were sure if I was gonna live so this whole idea of the family that they jumped was now being challenged that they could lose the younger son to cancer at age too so it was riveting very traumatic as you could imagine. Yeah I think losing a child at any age under any circumstances beyond comprehension in terms of sadness trauma for for any parent and They were no different and I ended up. Having to have my right eye removes. I've been blind in my right eye ever since. I only really know in. Remember what it's like to see out of one. I N that really formed my life from then on. I found drumming literally at that age at the time. Of course I had no idea even as I get a little older. I always said I started playing the drums around seven or eight years old but then I then I found pictures lit when my mom passed away in two thousand four. She was my best friend than closest person to me. Ever in my inspiration And really the reason. We're on this podcast right now with with credits in in any kind of success And when she passed away I was going through photos that I had never seen before and I was drumming at eighteen. Nineteen months in two years. Old photos were dated. It was unbelievable right before Mike. Answer and then of course right after so. I've been playing the drums literally my whole life in one form or another at eight years old. I started taking lessons. We couldn't afford a drum kits. I was taking drum set lessons every week from a local public drummer. I in school and then from a guy to music store Mr Willy and that was playing on phone books in pots and pans and tables to emulate a drum kit and eventually I gotTa Use Drum Kit. My parents saved up for a couple years and I played the heck out of that thing and started playing in bands started looking at. How can I be the world's greatest drummer I wanted to do? Something bigger in life than what surrounded me in my neighborhood. My environment was very limiting environment very very blue collar. People kind of stayed in the town. And just you know kind of kind of almost resigned in that area to like. Okay will this is. This is what it is and I was such a rebel against that Zig. No Way I'm going to do big things if it kills me and I worked really hard to accomplish that. I didn't. I didn't just dreaming. I actually did it which I still do to this day. fourteen sixteen hour days on a regular basis. Because that's how much time it takes to do it. You know so after twelve thirteen years. Old playing gigs I starting to lead a band in. I started to learn about booking gigs and SORTA learn about business which I had no idea which really learning I was trying to do is get my band into different venues clubs and whatever But of course with that comes agreements you know. How much are we GONNA get? What's the set time? What's load in load out in all these things that I was just learning all these cool things that had no idea would serve me for my entire life? Found technology through drumming round. Seventeen years old. I was searching for great drum. Sounds technology now or in the early to mid eighties was starting to become very important to drumming. So that's what my first explorations consisted of with like okay. How do I trigger drums? How do I understand the basics of programming drum machine and that a falling in love with technology as much or more as I did drumming and what I saw as my technology career was really taking off and it came very naturally to me is I saw that I became a consultant? Mini consultant got a lot of clients. And I saw that while like in this environment I can contribute to music and take everything I've learned about music and I can do it on a much bigger scale in a much more Passionate in end interesting scale than I could even as a drummer because a lot of the bands and artists that I would dream of working with had a drummer. But they didn't have anybody helping them with technology so yeah it would just kind of a hand in glove fit so I really pursued it than you know. Had A very successful meeting consulting business before I was twenty years old and get through a lot of hard work from starting at zero and then got the Gig with I was referred to them and I came in to do one project for a week and never left and then from there Started to work a lot of other people get a lot of referrals have worked with myriad of platinum record artists that have just made for an incredibly grateful career. You know from secured of the stones to Elton to Debbie Gibson to Ricky Martin to You know sticks journey. Corey mentioned Arrowsmith. Ozzy Osborne Bryan Adams Billy Joel you know. Just goes on and on the privileges. I've had a terms of working with getting called to work with great artists and And then I started a business called audio one because my consulting technology all those areas were really growing. I was doing different projects drums sample CDs with these west. That were very successful. And I had to form a company because I was getting asked to build a lob studios some people even credit me were building the first home studio which I have no idea. That's true or not too great credit. If it is pretty cool yeah yeah. It'd be cool but I was getting a lot of calls to build studios input systems together so I had to form a company. I had to scale it bigger than me. I started audio one which has been in business now for twenty five years Turned into a one of the top companies in the world for building recording studios home theaters in large scale home automation systems. And then I started Protocols Training Dot Com ma which has been a very successful environment Teaching people all around the world for produce and certification through avid and. I started all access idea which is inspire and develop artists Which is not as development program. That's been very successful. We have a label through Warner As well as a great artist development program of course. I have modern drummer now. All of my side projects in addition to these companies And I have Francioni media which is The consulting arm where we consult. We work on new product ideas. We do high level business consulting and Artists Consulting We work on more commercial based projects. Where we'll do a tire facilities and The acoustic designs etc. So all of this fits together and You know here I am with a career now. That spanned well over thirty years. And I've been fortunate enough to receive over seventy gold and platinum records and Have a lot of a lot of artists relations that You know just been an amazing mazing educational ride. Wow historic wrong. Then that's just the case in point of just you know it's it's an example of don't do one thing obviously you can't do one thing right but do a bunch of stuff you know and just and see what happens. I'm sure I would be surprised if you hadn't had some things that you tried. That may be didn't succeed. And you you say I learned from that and Morris. Everyone does well. That's without a doubt. Bart. I mean you know. We're talking about the highlight reel of the things that have been great. You know we can have a whole `nother show on the failures may be two shows and you also mentioned crash. The world's greatest trump kit so in the middle of of these other projects also authored three books bestsellers the first ones. Clint Eastwood icon published in two thousand. Nine they've all been published by insight editions. Which is a fantastic publishing company to Harry Potter and Batman and they're wonderful And then they publish my second book. Which IS CLINT EASTWOOD ICON? Revised expanded edition. Twenty a team still out there doing great and then my third book crashed the world's greatest drum kit so the Clint Eastwood books are all about. Clint's films is art. They were done in collaboration with Clint and Anybody who's into action movies Westerns or anything. Clint Eastwood or anything movie posters and Memorabilia. Collector you're GONNA love Clint Eastwood icon. That Books Coffee Table Book. It's amazing is also for the collector or for anybody who loves drums as you mentioned all these pictures of iconic trump gets. It's part of my foundation. Francioni Foundation Texts drums two seven. Oh seven Oh seven Oh you can donate to Francioni Foundation which at all times for helping musicians in kids who need it most and Francioni Foundation has this incredible drum museum. Where all these drums reside and the book Contains a coffee table. Book contains pictures and stories carmine apiece. Carl Palmer Neo peer. Alex Van Halen You know just on buddy rich. Louie Belsen The list goes on and on and on of Eric Singer Ice Hana chromosome icon of drummers iconic drum kits if you love drums and I would think most of the people on this podcast. Do you gotta get crashed. World's greatest drum kits. It's at Amazon and It's it's done really well and the feedback we've gotten has been extraordinary We did the first. Printing had a couple of mistakes in it that though you know they weren't the end of the world but they were still mistakes so we did a second printing Because the first one sold out so quick and we corrected those mistakes Which were couple of texts to couple of TYPO things And the books just done really really well. And I'm very proud of it in the I did it for drummers and drummers are coming back to me saying we love the book and that's what matters that is what matters. It's cold is too. I love that we can just look at pictures and read about drums from from our our heroes. Yeah isn't that cool? I mean it's just such a cool thing to be able to look through thank you. I agree you know bar. I made the book all three books for that matter that I wanna read and I figure I'm pretty harsh critic of myself and of just creativity in general. I learned Afrim Steven Tyler. He's pretty intense about getting things right and he was very nurturing in all those years. We were in studio together and that rubbed off on me. In a big way between my mother and Stephen that that was a really really prevailing mindset and These books of the books. I would wanna read their books and I I would if I didn't write them. I'd have them on my coffee table and I would enjoy Going through them as a fan of the subjects. Yeah and what you said about Steven Tyler in your mouth. It just goes to show about that the importance of the not working in isolation and having a mentorship and taking people's feedback. Not Getting your feelings. Hurt grow from it expand and do the best possible so love it. You're absolutely right. Well set awesome. Well David thank you so much for sharing all this amazing information with us And I'm really excited about the future of modern drummer I just think it's so cool that it's been around for so long and it's it's got it's n-. There's no end in sight. I mean it is just getting better and better and bigger. Yeah and I'm sure what you're going to do is just GonNa be amazing. We'll thank you You know we brought my drum teacher. Don Familial Arrow who's one of the most famous from educators in the world brought him on his head of Global Education for modern drummer and I want to thank him for introducing the two of us and also thank you doing all the contributions he's GonNa continue to make to modern drummer. Thank you for the support. Thank you everybody listening for the support. Modern DRUMMER DOT COM as bark. Said you know. We're forty three years strong but the best is yet to come and Very grateful for all your support and everybody just stay home if passed this when you listen You Take the principles that we learn. Stay home and apply them. They'll be applicable forever. And I wish everybody the best awesome. Thank you David Francioni. Everyone really appreciate being on the show. Thank you if you like this. Podcast find me on social media at drum history and please share rate and leave a review and let me know topics that you would like to learn about the future until next time keep on learning. This is gwen sound podcast.

Modern Drummer magazine Bart engineer Elton John Drummer Yuppie Clint Eastwood publisher Ron SPAG Nardi Ceo and publisher consultant Look Technology David Mike Mike Mike CH- Audio Barak Bridgeport Connecticut New York City Drum Corps
Secrets of a Dragon Slayer (Part 1) with John Kershaw

How To Build A Dating App

1:00:04 hr | 1 year ago

Secrets of a Dragon Slayer (Part 1) with John Kershaw

"Hello and welcome to how to build a dating APP. This podcast will chronicle our journey of building. I and launching a brand new dating APP arraigned for this podcast is to take you through the whole experience of what it takes to build a dating APP from scratch and not just any dating but one that we really hope can take on the big competitors in the market. We're definitely going to be learning Jason Lessons along the way as this is the first of this girl that any of us have been involved with a none of us have worked in the dating industry or experts in data so really help as delve into the current dating landscape and online dating trends. We're going to be speaking with some of the leading dating industry experts breaks coaches an APP developers to share their insights on the industry in two thousand sixteen APP Creator John Kershaw stepped onto the set of the BBC television show dragons den to pitch his dating and social wet building platform he asked for an investment vestment of eighty thousand pounds for fifteen percent equity in his company and went on to receive offers for more five dragons after appearing on our podcast area the season to share his experience advice on building a niche dating up. We're delighted to welcome back to talk about his dragon. Dan Story on the realities of investment welcome to how to build a dating at presents secrets of a dragon slayer. Joan things are going back on the show to talk to us today I so I don't know dragons. Dan is a British television program. That's been running on the B._B._C. since two thousand five and the now on series sixteen the show gives entrepreneurs and opportunity to present business ideas to panel of five wealthy investors the dragons and pitch for financial to investment last offering a state of the company return. We also have a special guest host colleague Caitlyn. She's a big dragons den fans. She's excited to me you John. You are a CELEB- to us the John New appeared on dragons Dan on episode fifteen of the fourteenth series. I did found wikipedia those how many view as you're upset at around about three million two point eight million I think two point six four million hunter wikipedia but then we could have very reliable source everything that's a good. That's a big Tapu people looking at you. What so what made you in the street yeah just after I was on a date and recognize me and I was like all been worthwhile day? They recognize them. It was just like wondering sorry I did forgets mentioned I was on track was actually a friend to feel like it's a weird thing to drop pin on a date because it's like it's too big. It's not like Oh yeah. I went to Cyprus once. It's like Oh yeah I was on National T._V.. Doing this slightly ridiculous thing it's sort of the wrong size to drop in casually. How do you drop if you if you had to guess you'd be like us? I run Nisa investment now and then like dragons Dan. I don't talk about any found a day then you materialism would be faust the say let me tell you where you the design so what made you want to be on the show in the first place where you fan and did you mainly see as kind of good investment avenue and or a P._r.. Agency so the process of like the whole process is really he really long so I actually applied for Dragon Stan. I think in Twenty fifteen <hes> so the m fourteen haven't been invented at that point it was still just Brisa and person doing our P._R.. At the time just sort of sent me linked like hey you should apply for this is ridiculous Free Pa and I was like all right that sounds that sounds good so sent off the application as just Bressler and then they filter through all of that paper applicants and then they'll phony back if they you think that this may be something that I think a second phone interview what you Kinda do a bit more pitching and you start to send off the paperwork then you go in and they do like a screen test and you go via pitch and the list of then give you the filming day and then you go uh-huh and the still no guarantee that you watch TV so this is really really long process but at the very beginning we will wrestler. I like dragons. Dan I could potentially deal with the emotion emotional baggage of being the a funny one that they will hate if we went on so I just applied because it was just a free funny idea. We knew that we could always like tell them no later until I'm actually they're being filmed. I can always just walkaway. How did you watch the show previous low fund it is it's a good show and it's I was reading a few comments and things online and people feel maybe the now it's gone inviting businesses on based on their entertainment value you and almost if people can laugh at them for the ideas able but he didn't start that I guess it was more well? I mean it's entertainment TV like no one watches the apprentice because I want to know how to get head and business how to we know one watching love island thinking oh here's some good day advice. It's just entertainment. It's just sort of themed around business so I mean if they actually made it his a meeting between investors and people might want to invest in it'll be the most boring thing everyone involved so it is always being kind of light entertainment. Yeah I think now they've sorta figured out what works and what doesn't so I was in the Green Room in like a dozen of people and you could tale a mile off which owns the wholesome like Father Delta Combo which one's the Oh we've invented in you kind of apple juice and those one where they want a million pounds the one percent and it's like you're the one that Jones gets grumpy APP kind. You know these two general types and they have tried balanced the mail did you did you appreciate how good of a P._R.. Pechiney it could be I think so. I didn't have that many expectations because I've there's no uh-huh frame of reference. You can't look up online and see the value of the P._R.. Because it can vary so much so I spoke to a few different people before I went on and some I wanNA call them acts. I've been watching law America's got talent. Holidays reminded me some some people's businesses. It's a serious business not as time so some business it'll go on and if it's a really entertaining pitch they can get core of a million people looking up their website that night but if it's like like a cramp pitch or it's edited in such a way the come across his idiots they might not get anything or it might not even a pair on T._v.. It'll so it's it's it's really tricky to Kinda gauge it. Obviously it's great P._R.. But if you go on dragons den purely for the P._R.. You're just GONNA get in trouble because you literally have to sign documents say I am not doing this for Free P._R.. They legitimate business thing because if everyone just went on for Free P._R.. It would just be really frustrating. Straightening full dragon people he didn't have a clay and and I guess you need the numbers and the figures and everything tobacco up yeah open yes idea so you couldn't fake it just to go on yeah exactly exactly. Did they give you any advice. During the steps APPs the when you're giving your pitch and stuff like that before you did the actual in front of the dragons. Did they tell you think take stuff out. Put stuff in say that yes so it's fairly heavily modified what even from when I arrived at the studio to why no I actually pitched so does all the numbers and is the three minute pitch and you practice that to death and that's pretty much all wrapped up ahead of time because m fourteen is entertainment company that I mentioned that so in fourteen we make dating people and we make social people and I thought it would be a great idea to make dragon dating so they all get given an IPAD and they can match with each other than the production team with like Dante. That's awful. They said it in a very polite way. No show that will play well on TV and like a couple of days beforehand that would have been awful. Can you imagine watching the dragons all like swiping on each other and it would be just want to sit there and twelve. They're paying around yeah exactly so so in the end I went in. I'm one of the other people to go into them without a prompt the whole reason why I've got in if you watch the pitch back there's this giant T._v.. Screen that's basically there because otherwise I have nothing nothing has been made to look like a smartphone yeah TV that looks like a giant smartphone and it just shows like screen shots but that's purely that because otherwise I would not be holding anything so there was even discussion of me just walking holding an IPAD to be like look technology down and then stop doing my pitch so does everybody does. Everybody have to have a prop daily or looks much nicer because it's more interesting than just those standing there on iheartradio somewhere. I haven't seen at least one pro at laced Tevita Yeah. It just makes it slightly more interesting plus. You've got a shelf where you can put stuff and I went in there with one inch thick folder of Judy elections documents. I spent so long not <music> every every trademark. We've got every business deal we've got all of our profit and loss balance-sheets and by didn't use it once and I was slightly annoyed Dina Seal my working out no okay then fine. I guess you just trust I find because they just want to have in your head. I Guess Yeah Yeah I think it's also so the like Deborah can be like let me look at your copyright claim and then you bring out and she's like crap so having big T._v.. Screen was Kinda Fun. If it would and yet otherwise it's just needs to their with myself and my bed they made so there are a lot of things get changed so we dropped the Dragon Diane and I'm so happy about that and then in the morning I was chatting with one of the editors who I the original ask was going to be one hundred grand because it's like a nice round number one hundred ten percent and the Edita sober who gave me some advice which is the the hundred grand is almost a bit of a milestone and if you ask for one hundred grand or more they'll probably give you a bit of a grilling whereas if you ask for less than one hundred grounded doesn't kind of meat that mental will mark of like a big investment so they could potentially take a bit more of a gamble on it and there's this interesting 'cause one hundred grand I think is the most commonly asked for amount going there and ask for say eighty grand twenty grand in an investment like this doesn't make a huge amount of difference because you don't know whether you're gonNA get out but it means that they give you potentially an easy at time because it doesn't sort of set off any of those red flags so in the morning I walked ten going hundred ten percent and then by the time I went into picture it was a grand for fifteen percent. Yeah remember having the spoke with the editor. Do I need to sign something because like I already gave him my paperwork saying come up from asking the let out. I don't know if they were quite casual but they were like until you say out loud in the den. It can be kind of whatever you yeah five days when your bartering with them it comes down anyway. Doesn't it doesn't really matter what's on the paper yeah exactly so you you prepared to give twenty percent because one thing I noticed watching back as the even though you said fifteen percent on them twenty or twenty two hi there I mean that's the power thing it's just a negotiation thing that you go in mobile and they go in high goaling. I was expecting them to come in like the sun and I could be like now and then it came in an inconvenient amount. Did you have limit in your head when you walked in. Did you have a limit as well so so there are other GonNa give you a stupid offer or good offer and I was expecting them to give me like a stupid offer now and then accidentally pitched it really well. I gave me like a complete incredible offer accidentally do things amazing so then this might be an opportunity to mention the one of the things that they require before you go into the den is assigned declaration nation from everyone who owns business has a stake in your business thing like I give John the right to negotiate on my behalf. We just closed funding round with about seventeen investors involved the lie to sign about how about a month after they've just signed over to then get them to all agree. I can negotiate on their behalf with them. Having no control over anything wow and yeah I sort of pessimistically was like don't worry about it. Just GonNa Laugh out the room. It'll be fine. There's no risk of actually getting a dealer or anything like that and so does this moment of panic when the Dragon Stock giving me credible office this is not in any of my plan was expecting either left out of the room because it's something ridiculous frivolous all they give ridiculous offers like we just couldn't take and so when they said twenty percent I just panicking like if you go and African for fifteen a nice I twenty anti EU content that down without looking like a complete plum because it's it's so close yeah you wouldn't in real life. You wouldn't negotiate you something. That seems reasonable so yeah so then I have this sort sort of panicked afterwards being like how do I explain this to our investors. Seventeen staples thankfully is a cool good people so so they were happy to sign but yes so they will have to sign. Only one of them passed it to their lawyer. The lawyer replied back home. Why would you sign this ever? Sign responded asking. Would you like to pull out of dragon and then it was signed quickly because ultimately that's it and also I still control the majority stake in the company. I can kind of do what I want. It's more to see thing and you don't invest in people that you don't trust so they trust me to sort of make good decisions so we've got some practical dragons day in questions but then some. was later on we'll get some of your insights in investment in general help dragons den investment competitor other Roussy. You come down okay so you arrive at St Day on the day of filming. How's the experience of being there weightings be called in fuel? Pitch is terrifying. Advocate is the most noticed I've ever been so. I woke up at like five A._M.. Thankfully it's filmed in Manchester which is great for me because I live in Manchester so for me. It was like a half hour car ride so I turn up. I was the first one there which I think it's me. Bonus points I can use those bonus points thing but the person that which meant points need them. Maybe only gave him the investment. 'cause then you how keen they like this guy ten things things alley yeah so you turn up and you go in. They show you around and you can kind of see what's what and then you Kinda just go and sit in the green room and use white for other people to arrive and there's lots of little segments that they film throughout the day so who does the pre. There's an interview before going on then does all of the shots of you gung in the elevator pressing the buttons standing there. That's all down ahead of your pitch because they have to move on cameras around so the shot when the doors open and you walk through and it's face the cameras looking at you you do that and you have to pretend that you can see the dragons in your life and then I saw you do all of those kinds of little bits of filming and then yeah you make up done which is someone who like profusely sweats like this is like a challenge <hes> and then there's all the various sort of production. It's a really well oiled machine because they've done it so long yeah but the there's loads of fun little bits constantly checking to make sure that you're still wearing all your clothes. The same way that you make up hasn't changed consistency. Just look at it with by ages Putney lost one. They said on the clip that you like the awesome Dave I'm guessing now is like middle of the day so they jumble everyone up so there's like twelve I dunno actually I can't remember how many people I think there's like a dozen people. I can't remember how many pitches there are in a day and then they just edit them round to be in whatever order kind of fits but the pitch is three minutes but the Q._N._a. can be Alice and then it's edited down to the ten minutes that you see so I was in two hours of just come yeah. I was talking with the dragons for a couple of hours and then edited down to my best ten minutes because they will give you offers and so yeah if you if they're not going to give you offers. They'll feel worth ten minutes. They do give you the best ten minutes so I was very happy with that too. That's a long time into just stand in the same spot being grilled yeah very it was it was terrifying Quebec's. We didn't say I mean the laws of boring. That's the Ansi parts of the of the daily don't see so to has has a big economists platform that he owns and there was a long discussion about integrating that ecommerce platform with 'em fourteen so that we offer white label economists so his actual offer Cain with that platform and Deborah's offer uh came with the proviso that didn't use that platform because it would take focus away so these other additional dynamics that really boring and that kind of complicates they'd have to spend the full ten minutes just explaining these things so I think they just kind of just showed the best most interesting <unk> but also strings the narrative together so that you understand it so when you are in the Green Room with the other contestants I read that you know allowed to speak to each other. Is that true true that just because that sounds an awkward if you're in it'd be waited now Chad to people everyone's just really nervous. I've kind of keeping to themselves in his own so yeah so one thing that does happen there. was I mean everything that happened with surprise because it's a little weird but you you wait in the green room and then they'll cool down to the set yeah sorry the definitely a real a house you go through the pitch and then you not allowed back to the green room you are them whisked away to your own little individual kind of waiting room how maybe busy and then that's yeah so you come you. Don't talk to people once they've come back in or out or anything. I guess it's just that you don't know what happened and also I guess maybe if Dryden's right already good mood. It'll kind of skew if you knew what was going home yeah okay. That's a myth busted. Did you know we'll all do you are going to be and so when he arrived in the morning. Did they say oh. You're in at one. No so those no running older they just they give us much advanced warning as possible also I was. I was given four five minutes notice okay. This is enough time and then five minutes late. Charles told fifteen minutes I guess because they try and get you prepared based on how the pitches going maybe the other pitch started bombing and so this will in the next on and and so when fifty minutes and then actually we need you down right now and so I had a few minutes notice which I'm kind of glad about because I didn't have enough time to worry worry my delve into a nervous wreck. Yeah I suppose you if you know by applying your potentially going to be doing this thing but this a certain amount of nerves on the day when she see the cameras in the studio and the Senate and everything that must kick in and once you standing eh elevate the about and they will refuse to open the doors if you don't press the button which is my favorite thing so this was one quick questions that will bump it up to NASA. We're talking about the elevator. The innovates Oh right or is it. I didn't know until I literally saw that that it is not a real yeah. You need to put a warning on this episode. If you like dragons ends Dan don't listen to this peaking too far behind the someone's going to watch an tell everyone ever watched that the problem is right. If you go then it's not real elevator some little just looking at like obviously yeah obviously offense. This episode is digitally secrets of dragon slash so the secrets thing I've been going into this nine that can as him crazy secrets like ages before you'll pitch rich so they can get all the different camera angles one of the panels just as missing camera but you have to stand like look at the lights and so he stunned they're looking at where it goes like zero. We'll do three four and you can hear someone going Click Borelli black. It's moving no they didn't lift up. He's actually on the same floors where the dragons from one another so the green room somewhere else but all that little corridor. It's all Wimsatt so it's not like the little car is a different set so you walk onto this at and it is fleeing case done. All the cameras are Kinda hidden behind one way mirrors old COLLINA's feels really weird because you know surrounded by like dozens of people but you fail completely isolated because you can't see anyone you can just kind of here people because the film's everyone's like hushed voices and it's just it's weird so it is kind of like a closed warehouse us and Yeah Yeah so interesting for me is what's real and what's not like you do literally stand in area you wait for that red light to go green you go you press the button and then when those elevator doors open that is the first time you've seen them and you just start like all of that is one hundred percent real and so you walk to your mark mark on the floor and you just I think I don't know if they even tell you about it just because everyone seemed like everyone knows walk at that point because I watched this morning to see whether you looked down to find can you didn't professional professionals to stay healthy Klay Metro ability to just walk and stop need training. You know it's pretty nice bump into any of them. I didn't like stop my pitch in the elevator. That would have mixed it up. If you just came out talking already eh they wouldn't apply again have any snacks grain room. This is the hot stuff we need about. I think I do believe Steve was like a snack bar but I also believe the I was breaking it and so refused we actually because I kept a diary which I was reading this morning because my terrible and there is like genuine like I don't know what I'm going to go on at the time my coffee really carefully because if you're on like a coffee comedown then you have to pitch for three hours or have you need to Lou break come out. You can't be like I'm just going to I made sure on my way to the unlike pre Dan. We we important stuff though genuinely important would have ruined the pets. You need to know the dragons meet the toilet because I go between between pitches the Dragon I K- what dragons did you have on the panel of your F- site and did you have any of them in mind before you went in so p or neck and I knew Knicks Work App Moon peg which is very much analytics driven business. It's a business that you can put in a spreadsheet and see exactly how it works so I kind of I definitely wanted him involved because dating apps very much analytical businesses and so does definitely parallels that ended its B._T._c. seems like a really nice guy too was that Deborah and Sarah Sarah Yeah so yeah in hindsight should've deborah but you know we learn why I follow her on twitter and she's great just like I've ever reached out now. Now I feel like it's definitely a faux pot like so I turned down on public TV and then they will actually collapsed. Do you know she loved you you basically she's literally said she loved you now. You've always got that just send to the link center the Youtube this no she loves them. Know Ruin thing you knew that you would have been happy with Nick and then when so so niccolo would have been fine nick and Peter That's great by pitas known fold like tech amount having a bit of like additional money pretty good contacts and so they will kind of default goto based on what our businesses so it was it wasn't a particularly hard decision when office roll five and those who said we will deal with us to not the other three. I would've loved to get all five. I probably would have closed that deal because it's so ridiculous <hes> but yeah Sarah said I'd be happy to invest alongside any number two at the same Denver said the same and then those who are like nope just does great Arinda that kind of got to be awkward. Well edited like that but that was I think people didn't really want upon them with two we'll so this is where other bits going on where like to bring in his ecommerce platform and so there was then some awkwardness us there but yeah the all slot awkward because I forgot nickname yeah. That's why I said. I'd like to accept the upper from you guys from U._T.. Like yeah I may have forgotten nickname but under pressure I mean I forget everyone's name at the best time so famous person who I've literally seen every week. It's GonNa Forget that thanks Brian. I think I remembered his name but I wasn't hundred percent soon. I was right and wrong name. I'd like to take a Mike no yeah at least it was two of them if it was it was just him take you would've taken someone else's off just because I myself same harassment I was reading read it. Bode Abed dragons. Dan People am set the other dragons now at this point like sixteen series in must get annoyed when pizza goes in because it's almost guaranteed that people are GonNa go with pizza at the state because he's a spice my successful as well yeah. It's almost like Pizza Pie James. Dan Dot reflects real investment but some investors you some some investors eh because they've got money so think you're never going to get away from that like all of them. Bring different things to the table <hes> Tino Kemmel competitive. I guess I'm out I've committed to having five dragons. <hes> thing that for the always GonNa do that gave to the strongest and yeah it's good to get a range of people and it's nice that changes up so because different people have different strengths when you offered given the offers and you went off the door locking them as soon as I go all the office I knew exactly. Why won't you just pretend there's a bit in that's not the didn't make into T._V.? Show <hes> because there was so many kind of weird bedside deals going on. I had to paper off Deborah and borrow a pen anywhere I wrote down all different deals who would work with WHO and what combinations Whi- which is also why if you watch the pinch back halfway through me deliberating subtly gain a piece of paper in my hands thank which kept memento secretly hoping that it was I actually made the edit and then I could like frame it but now it's just the scrap of paper in folders frame your shirt or something yeah I still wear though so the actual lucky show my actual spoiled yeah nothing that give you close. He signed up in really rough glades chugging flip flops combine so as long as it's not <hes> stripy all patents or branded one these it's just you should go. That's my weekend scathing Collins on Youtube about my pitch Sahlins. It was like he needs to on the back of his shirt like all. This podcast realize that you were sitting down for a long time is my comment was should've paid attention because the border of staff constrain your clothes for. Search teams and then sign them which amateur mistake there creased scathing things on can say than you did all right I mean if you come into the rest which is kind of block and batum report so that's yeah I think made it very stuck with the degree of my Momma crease to easily driving the seatbelt. Yeah the secret secret the most men so you as we've said he received office from five dragons and you went on to accept the joint from Jones Nick Jenkins twenty percent of the business what happened after you left the room having accepted the offer where you taking them. I'm not GONNA come tight. You have with the dragons so the first one it is kind of will you out and go oh well them and then they will you off into sort of little side room. That's just a little Scott. It's why they just keep talent and it's just a little room and you just Kinda sit there and the like to eat potato pulling these panicked and they're what what's an offer the Jacob potatoes. I'll have a potato so I've got my son just because I was just like this is so bizarre I need to document everything being all that phones on that so I just have like a photo of potato as like my memento memento for the day. Can you give cycling. I can see if I can find it. If I can tell you people want to say we'll talk egg where it went viral fill. The potatoes got the scope nope none of the range potatoes but we'll see if I can't find this. It'll be a nightmare any I'm not gonNA lie any old potato scandal all star topping. Did you have sink it was like baked beans and cheese like a good choice phone up like everyone can think to phone like the staff all like my parents my sister and I saw and they're like N._p._R.. Nickleby round and a few minutes if they can spare and so then after like twenty minutes and a potato I go out into the car. It'll amend like ask Nick. I'm like that and they film a little behind the scenes thing because if you watch any of the what happened next shows shuttle behind the scenes I fell for everyone <hes> and so we have little fake conversation well like we talk about like polite in the den things and then the film crew goes away now we can talk gossip and then I managed to take a Selfie fat was some good advice Samo Charlie lasta currently lumine best adviser Earthy Day. She make sure you got to sell and I was like yes because that's the proof you need you doubt is that is the evidence is all the potato felt so you have until the show yeah and I can't publish it anyway so I just kept on a year and a half and then it was so that's at least you kind of like more of a human moment with them. Yeah Yeah which is nice and then they say that like their lawyers will be in touch with paperwork. Can you just kind of keep vaguely contact with each other to follow each other on social media. <hes> I feel like probably not well. Not many of them actually have social media presences rabbi team yeah too busy busy my favorite who runs her own step Deborah. I have a love thing with Deborah when I used to watch the show I just when when you watch the show kind of she's probably got like a dragon persona and when you see her and other things and she's completely differently deborah she you can definitely is how good day or a bad day when you show sometimes she's really lovely really understanding that is she just doesn't have any patients. Thanks that's well. That's one of the things I read like about her and Dr the other dragons is the world is amplified and time about you. If you start taking the pests they can sense it immediately 'cause they've seen so many pitches and they will just go for you because they know it entertaining if they rip you apart and so so you get these kinds of pushbacks. which is you know you probably head? How're you doing this for the shy that's fine? Oh go yeah so the way I viewed it. Which I think is a successful strategy so everyone pens and papers that they're viewed? You'd the whole thing as assaultive game will puzzle between three competing parties me an N._p._R.. An money this is the dragons they want to look it on TV and they want a good investment and as the production crew who WanNa make sure that the dragons happy and they want good TV yeah so the production crew cab whether or not the deal is good on all. I need to make sure that on good TV so that the production crews happy but I need to make actual. I'm not taking the past so the dragons just like what you're doing so you end up sort of playing a bit of a game where it sort of how do I get what whilst also making sure that everyone gets while they won so I'm not gonNA come in with ridiculous Dale. The is just going to annoyed dragons. I'm not gonNA focus on boring things because then it's going to be mad TV by need to make sure I actually make good offer that does like a nice to way conversation yeah in a sense it sort of Improv style what you're just making sure that your factory in what other people want to get out of that situation. I think that is one of the things that worked well for us than having credible business but maybe a training. I think so you've you've had media training in the post. I well that might be exaggeration so I have actually have media-training and guy sort of said that he thought I'd already have media-training. I've spoken on podcast and I know that you meant to answer questions spy including the question in the answer and to talk very helpful things like this is very helpful to include the question. See Training coming so yes I like. I know how to kind of do that kind of stuff. I've been around like stage in theory type. Things stage obviously terrified but like I know how you can project yourself. I know how to pitch and also going into the den. What you see is the most polished three minutes of my life so we closed the funding ground about a month before I went on Dragonstar and that's a whole other story Oy but that ground was that a nine months into making so I'd spent nine months talking to terrifying venture capitalists Angel Investors Everyone Polishing Polishing Polishing pitch and pitching in front of rooms of people on stages in competitions and and so when I went on dragons them I've never felt as prepared about anything before in my life? I know that the pitch works. I know the pace it goes. I I know where to laugh. Points are in an as soon as soon as you can pitch in a way that you're like. I'm GonNa tell a joke in this page. 'CAUSE I know it'll make you like me and then you tell a joke and then they'll laugh and it's like got. Yes Hook Line sinker now onboard. Is that line the bristle line. Does I love every single time yes or no so. I haven't pitched this in two years pitch now. So I think is sucks pay. Do you want me to get my script lit. I still have my scrap scraped yeah well. It's my pitch so it's this is probably the twentieth version of this same pitch and they all have the words specificity in because I learned how to say that and say what specificities every single page this morning I watched and you sit down. That's impressive impressive specificity bygone literally by design for the people people who aren't paying attention about my pitch interesting word then paying attention from funny joke for I describe what one businesses connecting people with those stroke beds imagine you get off almost every time when people on expect hand <hes> so yeah so so the pitch the pitch is it's really interesting for me seeing how the pitches evolved because you you'll telling a little store. You've only got three minutes and it's got these cute little punch lines. I think pitch starts with like sounds credible hilarious joke okay actually no this is a joke product followed up by surprisingly good numbers followed up by a surprisingly solid roadmap of like future development and a huge expansion opportunity and and you'll left at the end feeling like this whole business is really really credible because a little bit of self deprecating break it down and then build it back up again so people are in a good mood and impressed and that's how you want people when you pitch coach so it's an it's so contrived but it's kind of fun. I'm by coincided with specificity so would you recommend for nauseous. Dragons den pitches but pitches. Oh presence is in general trying to get it off is a good tactic to you're gonNA say try and say what Sei specificity. I think I think if you try and make it. I don't know so so it's awkward because Breslow is designed to be funny. It was designed to get media media attention. That's why it's literally started as a joke idea so it's kind of got inherent thing if you like are we work in roof insurance and then you try and make funny quip. It's no like it has to be the must be one must be a roof. Let's not go there and I think that is very five. Your head and that's not funny funny. See this is the problem. This is the exact problem I know. We need a joke in here. Factor lends itself to being funny. It's meant to be funny. The whole point of birth low is that you don't take it to seriously so everyone's in on the joke. It's not that you're trying to do stand up. It's like us. This is a little bit self deprecating. Oh by the way we've might quarter-million matches we will have no frame of reference that might be a lot that might be numb but it's a big number following a laugh and so you get that kind of juxtaposition and if you go happy days so I think with pitching just know that the person you'll pitching to wants to be interested in wants to be successful. It's not a your desperately trying to get their approval because then it's never going to work just having a conversation that you happen to prepared for nine uh-huh to make sure that you're getting across all the right information I would I would recommend getting feedback or if you don't hate the sound of your voice recording it and just listening back listening with a critical demo- pitches tend to be career opportunities like dragons Dan the other avenues. You've gone that. Do they tend to be a three minute thing. Is that Coleman time I mean most pitches are so I've done kind of competitive pitching which is like a list of competitions and they're always like ten minutes. Oh five minutes some most people when you're at that stage business you learn three minute pitch five minute pitch a ten minute pitch and potentially a twenty minute pitch and you also have your pitch available as one she evaded four writing and you have what's called a pitch deck which is a load of slide shows and you typically have two versions of that like the short one. That's just the headlines that's basically the do you want to have a conversation about this and then the longer will will the numbers which is having a conversation about this his like some more meaningful stuff and you. It's really tiring to give for investment because you need to keep all of these up-to-date like oh I can improve this and then how does that fit into this this this so when you're when you're doing these competitions people typically have pre-prepared one. That's the right at length and you you work really hard to get as much in and if you can end it like bang on time you win. It looks really good and some of them have literally timer than yeah so I've done with my home. After free minutes. The at home goes off terrifying. I finished with like fifteen seconds to go because can feel about people interacting your pictures I ever happened not interrupting way interrupting and ask question about something pre prepared speech. I want to give it eh questions going yeah. No one ever does us they normally it's time to on. They'll have a Q. and A. Section afterwards so the most common pitch full might you see is like person does a pitch. I've won applaud scrap scope and then there's is a little very brief Q._N._A.. Where the Haskell Softball Q._A. Questions <hes> but the pitch the fomenting of the pitch you can google us online is basically like six facts? You do like who we are. What the problem is what the Solution Lucien is how much traction you've got a what your team is and it's a tried and it just the full Matt? Every single pitch dot comes in <hes> which is good and bad. It's good because it means you can skim through the money quickly <hes> but it's not because they're already boring and I guess she needs to be prepared to give the pitch without the pitch deck. Sometimes yeah 'cause I listen to the startup Putin. They've set up just listened to the he's a guy from Duga think and the guy said like let's go over the street and get some lunch and then we'll come across the street. He's the pavement pitch me now without you pitch decks but I think if you think of the pitch as pre-prepared thing then you're gonna fail if you think if you'll pay it is like well you'll actually just talking about your business and you know no your business inside now so it sounds like tell me about your podcast. You should be able to be like Oh. It's like business podcast. You shouldn't be like Oh let me just remember the pitch you just you just talking about it and you go over it so much so often the it's more a reflection is more three minute version of what you can talk about hours rather than a thing. That's separate so you should be able to talk quite happily about what your business but there are also techniques when you're pitching to stop getting muddled will stop w like going down a rabbit hole. You didn't intend to go down and you'll see that listening to yourself talking about something. That's that's ridiculous. <hes> I can give you an example of that if you had like so early on in the days. I of M fourteen so we now the pitches basically if you wanNA dating app you on the Social Anfernee niche will build it and it'll be cheap keep from bad than literally any other solution on the market easy but early on we weren't sure how we were Gonna a pitch this idea of multiple leashes and people kept asking for examples and we haven't really thought about it and so at one point I panicked and the is like okay so you've got bids one other verticals e thinking of going into another okay so like people who like coffee tattoos and cats and the polls now he's like could you elaborate on the cats and I came up with an amazing business on the spot of fancy camps goat-like shows performance stuff. They pay a lot of money to match that cap with another shoukat to breed to breed like there's a lot of money in that imagine if there was a tender for Capri specialists socialist cat breeding how much money you'd make our that and you could branch to any animal breeding which led us on a few months later should be looking into carols. We were talking. Please check the facts we we may have just being scammed by alone but we were talking with with one of the few licensed specialist Bull Breeders in Europe and they paid like quarter of a million pounds for the bowl to make friends with your cow yeah well and they're like this literally no real there's no system that this goes through. It's just kind of people know people and so if you just introduce very basic matchmaking service and blows the whole industry it disrupts that if you will and so yeah this selective animal suddenly look. We've discovered this whole new haven't you that business can go down and it's if you know if you know your if you know the strength of your business you can kind of throw it in any kind of direction and you'll know how oh good or bad it'll do because it's the same template it's matching people based on I. N.. B. It's just a matchmaking service like its discovery. I think we call it discovery now because we're doing more social stuff and it's an accent to call it matchmaking like how how do you find other versions of whatever the type of thing you are. That's what happened with the whole animal breeding thing it just didn't happen one cats what about bowls and cows they terrifying. I think we just ended up dropping off contact contact for example it up as A. There's a big monkey I if I'm GONNA friend WHO's a foul and he literally has to his job is like breeding sheep and cows one reason why this the idea also doesn't get left out of the room is the investors tend to be quite wealthy people and they will have Seattle's say so. They're all well-versed in this kind of stuff so other other pitch like suggestion. No your audience good ones. I haven't you back pocket. If you need you sense they're expensive dot talking about expensive animals sentencing would go down these cow breeding. Welcome to my my job so you received offers from five dragons in the ten. How did that feel imagine? It's pretty mind-blowing when it's actually happening yeah I was. I was not fully present in nerve if you yeah it was it was very bizarre. It was very strange feeling. I don't know if you have a gun to a major city where you've never been before but what you've seen it so much on T._v.. Like the first time I went to New York I was like the movies movies like the city but you gotTa. They're all going around. The same thing. Hang on this is happening now. This can't be happening. I can't really be here it was it was very strange. Yeah the phrase called Foam. Oh in startups. That's fair of missing recently in the last few months uh-huh missing sudden yeah so it was really interesting. As soon as the first offer came in you could sense a shift the essentially people were sort of breaking cover. You got the sense that everyone was suddenly then trying to get it and my assumption will be I'd get a few offers and then Selma back down because sometimes they backed down because other people get give us stronger offering a cop match that then they'll came in and then it looked Mike. I'm like Oh five in one deal amazing blend it wasn't it was still good fun. Five seems like it would be hard as manage after you leave the A._p._R.. Would be give you could hire hinton to manage dragons dragging time I guess even having office more five dozen BAFTA now one of the first few I think it's only like once the season <music> but it happens. I think there was the one or two my season the office roll five which is good to have like club like inviting reckon driving yeah and so spoken to a few beforehand and I like you meet people in Startup circles and I've given advice to people before they go on because they know they can reach out to me by don't yeah I don't think there's no one that I like hanging out with regular. That's like also friends friends with lots of Great Dragons Code School Dragons Guide track in the show notes when at that because actually link Lincoln into that so your relationship with Nick Jenkins lead you to me and eventually by the dating APP Double Dragon Stan Ryan yes so they go investment from Nick when they appeared on during his time so <unk> essentially and we got trying to them so nick put his in contact with them pretty much immediately and we just got chatting to them and we found a load of similarities in metrics so this is a time by we already have one big dating which is breslow and one of the strengths of 'em fourteen is that we now have metrics on twenty different dating apps and no one else on us has data set like that no one else would need today. I mean we also have Amadeus of where the best bids on earth like. Nothing inherently valuable about these data sets specific unique so when we would just Brisa and then we started talking with double they will potentially needing some help. I put the infrastructure and that sort of what we provide and so there's a lot of kind of parallels that have can we help them cut costs and in the end we just we figured out that these things for spiciest Bali them and then they become an unfolding brand and then when we've got the telling we figure out how we can integrate them an in the Shelton we just use the I mean you got nice P._R.. Boost when you buy another company and it goes down as they have they got an acquisition and it's like yes we have those business people got it all in kind of Nice and we got the insight to things like that Chen writes that that funnels all that kind of stuff which at the time was super valuable because we had one big APP and then we have two big APPS US and we're planning on building mobile APP so it's kind of a really nice way to jumpstart their knowledge gathering so you take us through happened in the weeks after filming took place and what actually happened the daily made with the dragons so after the deal so there was just a lot of anxiety and myself and a lot of offensive relief we would I mean busy as a company and there was definitely come down from the adrenaline rush of pairing and in the end we got a better offer from different investor so we were mentioning that we were getting ready to take investment than give any details about you know when you're lawyering up as phrases like you mentioned of doing this because we're getting ready to take a pretty significant investment and talking to base suggested like our could we invest and we suggested tested evaluation of I think one point five million and they would be investing give or take a hundred grand and they agreed and so we then had to office we can either give up like five percent of business for one hundred grand or twenty twenty percent of our business for eight grand and we put this offer to next nick was based guy main from point and I think nick was was fairly open about because he's done other tech investments and he knows that like this is actually a reasonable investment Zeman looks like but he mentioned the like pizza is is very much if it's not the Dale in the Dan is not really haven't which is completely reasonable <hes> it was also sold of pointed out that if you agree twenty percent on TV TV and then it comes out in the press that you actually signed for like five four five percent is j just kind of makes the whole thing into a bit of a fast and you'll end up with people gung on the show agreeing to fifty percent and and then renegotiating in the weeks after that doesn't really doesn't really fit so they like. We're essentially priced them out around <hes> and then use that as a p._R.. Opportunity so if you google folly to good P._R.. Opportunity if you Google and fourteen deal will be a big tech crunch headline of like how the m fourteen deal collapsed now I am the idiot who actually suggested that as the headline because I was trying to about this dramatic headline but now if you read the article it's so like really nice and Peter Jones some lovely things and it's already reasonable but most people are now like all the deal collapsed. Well shouldn't have been a dramatic by causing tech crunch so like and if it makes people like read up than it's it's like there's no no like shameful secrets in their stuff we did. It just didn't work was the other investor. How do you say neo was here? Where you on dragons down in your other offer moment was from teacher? I don't think so so so it was filmed in twenty sixteen in ad in two thousand seventeen says like nine months between it was in that nine months where we closed this second round so I don't remember we actually told him that it was like the other would be dragging them because I think as soon as they gave us the agreed to the valuation the dragons kind of exit stage left because it just wasn't the deal that was going to work with them so in the den Teuku Solomon described you very credible deborah meat and said said that she liked the passion in your pitch and pizza giants did that you are the most appealing individual he seen in the den for a long time. How important do you think it is to show personality and passion in a pitch and have you any tips of how people can achieve and such a short time slot so I think it depends pitching so when you're pitching and at least business you are essentially pitching yourself and your ability and the company is going to reflect your personality? It's kind of like how like an author's I I work is always autobiography whether they intended to be not because you right from what you know I build a business how I like how I know so I think there's gotta be trust that there's going to be I think credibility it is is the key one. If I didn't seem credible I wouldn't get investment even if my business was credible and I think when you're pitching it's just about kind of having fun and it's one of those weird things that the more effort you put into showing your personality banality the more just comes across as staged all right before tive and that kind of stuff and the more you just kind of let yourself go and worry a little bit less the better uh but of course worrying walk keeps you from lying or making things up all forgetting things so you need to. I think it does a confidence from just knowing what you're talking about. I don't mean memorizing. I mean living and breathing like you can show me a dashboard of importing metrics. Look like and I can tell you if there's an issue with one of the service because like one of the graphs will be slightly dipping below where I would expect it to be like when you're living and breathing something then you can talk about it with passion and you can let your personality shine through using that announced that the the moment that kind of got Deborah was the end way you almost finished and you just kind of said just really exciting and that uh-huh like just you. I'm guessing you didn't plan no that was me forgetting of my pitch say that it's the most polished of other being genuine dislike flustered when it came across well then I think the less line was something about how I'm really passionate. I I still have forgot. I'm very excited about this. Wish they love that seem to get thinking. I want to work with this guy. So I guess like those human moments be human. Don't be afraid to be here like if you're feeling nervous at the start of a pitch say I'm really nervous and everyone will be like is fine and the whole unlike the pressure just kind of eases off a little bit so just be be human but like then no investing because you could have pitching if you're pinching you come across as human and smart and that's what they're investing and you can you don't you can put a lot of effort into being really slick and learning all the bold moves and that kind of stuff or you can put effort into being a human being and I would probably choose that one though I know a lot of people who get very successful by just learning how to pitch released like it's a lot of sales e type stuff. I guess you've always got the fact that you can say Piacenza Appealing Guy Business Colin Yeah you'll find your opinion is wrong Jones to correct you. I think as well as I should showing that you are actually enthusiastic about it because if I got tens of thousands of pounds to invest in someone I wouldn't want to invest it in someone who didn't really ECZEMA. They WanNA invest someone who really was passionate that making it work because at the end of the day is a risk is an interesting so you want to make sure that you'll risk is going to pay off and angel investors especially. They're investing for fun they don't need to they could put that their investment in a pension them two percent a year or something but that choosing to have a little bit of fun. Take some risk and use a small pov like have much they've got to do that.

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TechFan 421 - Razr Folly

TechFan

1:00:24 hr | 8 months ago

TechFan 421 - Razr Folly

"You're listening to another great podcast in the my neck podcasting network podcast number four hundred and twenty one. I'm Tim Robertson. I'm David Cohen and This is take two. Yeah so Obviously those who are you're listening to this episode have been as subscriber for awhile knows that it's been two weeks since we did the last one and that's because every other week David and I are now doing being the new shell. This is no longer than show David. geeks pub. And I'm here's the thing David I really want to do. A geeks pub right now because we both just saw the New Star Wars movie and we are dying to talk about it but at this point were about three weeks out from you and I discussing discussing the film and that's good because I'm GonNa talk about some next week with Eric Who's going to co host with me and But I'M GONNA I'm I'm going to be curious to get your take on the movie By then the man delorean will have finished. Its run. So we'll we'll be looking at a big Old Star Wars episode. Probably the the next couple of weeks pub. Yeah and hopefully. I'll get a chance to see the movie again because salt movie going this very dense movie. So it's with seeing it more all the ones to pick things up for the second time and then kind of see how it hits. Yeah I missed a them their whole thing with Lando. Because I had to take a leak and coal on a popcorn but I have to go to another screaming because Brooke wasn't able to come with us so it was just colon. I so I have take Brooke now to which isn't a bad thing we'll be. Prices are so expensive as exists. Yeah yeah four unfortunately one of the the big cinema chains here in the UK has really slash prices. They charge five pounds per of basically all the time now. So what seven or eight Dulles Louis for a each showing. And that's the way process used to be a lot more reasonable than they pretty probably hall the other change charge. Do you have the theaters. Words reserve seating. Yeah in fact most most theaters in the UK do that and the reclining seats and other Assad reclining seats you you tend to have to so basically most of the change in the UK they have a strip of two rows that have big reclining running seats and all of that and they charge a little bit more for those and then there are a few cases the much smaller and they're all like that but The majority it's it's like an op great. I'm going all to those seats here in the US. Now aside. And I like the change. You every seat is a good seat now except for that front row. I still can't do the front row But every seats a good seat they all recline. There's plenty of space between rose and there in the seats. There's so much bigger that even if you're sitting next to a stranger you don't really feel like you are. Yeah and they all have really nice trays to put your food and drink on I they are I. I give movie chains credit credits to from a technology standpoint. They're all upgrading to digital everything. Aw Yeah I can't remember the last time us or a movie that was projected from film laughing. Pretty much all of the ones we go and see now a digital projection. And that's one of the few. You look look technology improvements. Let's face it movies of always had movie theaters in the main have always had great sound. So even though there's a lot technology that goes into the Dolby atmos- and all the vets thing now you can't really tell unless you're a fishy are fishing Ardo but the difference between film projection and digital issue so video projection is like night and day switching between a crt an HD four K. TV. It's amazing you don't get any of those artifacts you get movie only only fill the films tend to be more reliable and they look much much sharper which we used to now because we used that watching you know big high def. TV's home yeah. Yeah it's I gotta give him credit doing a great job and they they have to because the competition is never been more fierce for your entertainment dollar and this is disposable income. This isn't and you know and people are still finding reasons to go to the theater and you gotTa have a good experience. I I was a little worried honestly one colon. I sat down because a younger couple sat right in front of US and again. It's really a steep theater. So you know I almost into their lap but they they brought an infant. I'm talking less than six months old and I thought really you're going to bring an infant to and I was totally prepared to tell him to get the hell out of. There may be started making a lot of noise and that to be that guy. But you know I. I didn't come to watch star wars. Listen to your baby. Cry The whole movie. That ain't GonNa Happen Sitter. Thank exactly they anytime. The baby started fussing a little bit. They were right on top of it and blows up to it and so I give them credit for that but who brings the infant to a movie theater a stupid well. Yeah I guess I don't want to be you know the Ah Let's face it. You and I both have a comfortable living. We're not rich mining stretch of the imagination. But you know we. We have disposable income so I don't want to be the guys saying well just you know I said it. Just get a sitter. I know that some people are not some people struggle for money. Don't go to the movies with your baby. My that's that's that's my point. My point is is if you WANNA go to the movies and you have six mother isn't it doesn't matter about how good to be honest. How good they were yeah? It's not the right environment for child. Yeah for a particular for young baby who has a different sleep pants where everybody as well. I don't think extremely loud movie. Are you kidding. Yeah I know that's exactly what I mean. So you know if you're in that situation and even even if money's tight and it's it's it's double the cost cost right. Yeah I think it would be better for everybody including your cells really to try and find the extra money you'll save the extra money to have a sister CISA or oh leave show with family also with four. Or here's an idea you don't get to see the movie right now. I'm sorry your your life revolves around your one hundred percent happiness and screw everybody else because you're the most important person the workers your precious little flower but you know what you have an infant. You have responsibilities responsibilities and we live with a social con contract in this world. I'm one of those are you. Don't bring an infant to a movie like this you. aww Yeah. I've got to be honest. It's only really since in the last twelve months. Oh when Charlotte is. Is You know nine coming on ten. That whoa unless we're going to see kids movies that we've started going to the movie theater because she's going to make noises and stuff. Well No. It's it's not just that she you know she sits she. She's always been a good chuck. Shashi always sits nicely but the point is the salt movies we offer or want to see as a family your not age appropriate for her so we just haven't seen them all together either. I go with Alexander on the and goes with Alexander. Yeah if Charlotte has been off with a friend or something sometimes the three of us have gone. CMU Multiple Movies Davies for instance their fault or intense for her even even now given the years I think she probably would struggle with something like and game or something like that so we haven't we. I haven't seen them all together. And we just kind of accept that as Paul. The price of parenthood is there you have the responsibility. You can't do the things you spell today and it's called sacrifice people you gotta sacrifice your own entertainment because you had a child. I'm sorry David I had children and we had a sacrifice vice. It's just the way it is But yeah they're they're upgrading. All the movie theaters and you know with Netflix and Disney plus and You know there's so much good content out there right now that you don't have to leave your house to enjoy you gotta bring it and I gotta say And they're doing a damn good job at movie theaters. They still can't fix stupid I E parents with babies or people who are I'm just GonNa talk or somebody who sneaks their food in in a super crumbly bag And that's all you hear the whole time as it over things I can kind of live with because yeah the big problem I have in the movie theater is idiots. Who went they find out? I haven't had that problem in awhile member. I had the the one that we got nasty with the years ago but that was the last time that I've had that problem. So when we play for five commercials before the movie stars about putting your phone away now they do. They do in English as well. And yet when we went C- Star Wars with Alexander. We were right on the back right. Yeah and there was a family of three next source with a kid who was probably seven. The child was fine right but both the parents could not stop looking at their phones and they were looking at facebook. I could the woman who gets doing I could see and it was like every five. She's looking facebook and I would've got real close to her ear and went. Turn off the phone. Well you know what she got the idea because basically every time the screen came out I started looking right over there and eventually they kinda turned it down but after about an chee hers away and it didn't come out then then forty minutes slater. The gaulish phone came out. And I just you know. Eighty s social media become an addiction with some people or thinking about self. Those posts are still going to be there when you come out this movie. Yeah do you. Doug need to do it in the bleeding movie. And frankly I'm I'm I am. If the opinion that if the if the movie cases cell phone jammers on some of the things didn't work I would be completely enough to cool with that Completely off the cool you you have the money to. It's like you know if you have a good sitter. There's very few crises home pitman. If you're that worried about it you don't get to go the movie. Sorry yeah exact- sorry you take that responsibility. You're the one that decided that you had to go see this movie opening night night. Sorry yeah so anyways anyway. I did Well I think most people actually I agree with all of all of everybody listened to this. Yeah I don't mind looking at your phone in previews that's fine but once the light. Slow down turn them off. Yeah this was during the movie yeah. That's just that's when you get an extra bottle of water and you squirted atom right at the phone. Yep because because because I would love to be that guy I got a couple of days from Christmas. Gift giving season and I gave Julie we A car that's a very very nice gift so it wasn't a brand new one I would love to say you know. We drive brand brand new cars. But I've mentioned on the show many times that I drive a sequoia with a quarter of a million miles on it. I've always generally drove older cars. I've only about one brand new Carmi life and I've just switched my formerly brand new car to a three year old used car and I'm very very happy with it as well and I'm much appreciating financial. Savings is was the fat as well in our situation. JEWISH PETROVNA CAR that I've hated for a very long time which while in it was a GMC envoy. And I hated the and I didn't buy it for her when we got this car. This car was going to be my dad's car it was right after mom passed. Excuse me is reprimand passed away. He was having a hard time getting in and out of his old Lincoln One of the things that I've noticed selling cars is a lot of the SUV's and I'm also talking about smaller. SUV's like around four Nissan rogue or whatever Is is retirees. Because it's easy to get in and out of rather than a passenger car where you gotta fall into it and pull yourself out the becomes a problem. This is precisely why autry the infinity because with a back injury and the surgery that Lianne had last year. It's harder to get it. You know she really struggled to get to. Everybody struggled to get in and out of that car car. Even Charlotte I. I'm she sat in the front and she's nine banged her head on the on. The it's just you know conduct lowdown style just not very comfortable and we we ended up buying a three which is kind of a very small Carla City cars super minicar but it's been turned into like a pumped up. SUV's pitswon these crossover ones and because we tried every car on the law and this was the one she found easier to get in and out for me. I love the car as well. It's not toys on the industry. Dr But the key thing for us was able to get in and out Veasley. It's a huge issue for a lot of people worldwide and that's why I got this. GMC envoy but two years ago. Three three years ago now. And I wanted it for dad. And I bought it. It was a trade in for another customer. It wasn't my customer but they traded the Senate I looked at it and it looked pretty good and I asked what the trade was and they told me and I was like Jesus I put that on a credit card. Yeah I mean it wasn't much at all so I bought it. I told Julie on the phone and she goes. I'm explaining it and she goes doesn't have a third row in the moment. She said that I knew she wanted it so she took that and my dad took her vehicle. And we're kind of back into of that situation so I been looking for a car for Julia for a while and I knew when I found it I would just know that this is the one and I thought I had found one. Didn't work out so with that obviously wasn't meant to be and then. I had this customer Commie on Monday. Seven seven thirty in the morning I get their way before everybody else and so I took the call and these people want to know if I had a certain vehicle a lot I did. And they explained that they live Five hours north of us and this was an inexpensive vehicle after taxes and everything like sixty thousand dollars and they told me about the car they were going to trade in and it piqued my interest immediately so when they brought their trade in they never even saw this car before they decided they were going to buy. Hi It. No one drives five hours six hours to look at a car unless it's like a car and bringing around dealings with some specific acidic mind. That's because they've done the research they've and they just WanNa find somebody who has it. Yeah I mean they. They had instructions like well. We want winter tires. Put on on it before we get there. Just which whichever winter tires of the very best price never came up. They didn't care about the price so I knew the head money I knew they took care of their car. When we took a look at their trade I pull the Carfax on it and they did every single thing? You could possibly do to this car maintenance wise if it's in the manual that's what they did and so. This car had just shy. I have two hundred thousand miles on it. which should be a scary thing? Except it's it's Alexis and it's Alexis four hundred eight which is a smaller suv but it's also a hybrid and it was. It was just gorgeous. I mean you could tell it was dirty because they live on a dirt road now. That sounds like that means it would be poor. No that means it's very exclusive area or they. It was just gorgeous. I could did not believe the condition and the way draw when you sent me a picture of it I I thought it was about five years younger than from what it actually is because yeah the At the condition of it you know it's it's perfect and so Yeah that's what I did. I just thighs well. It does not. Julie doesn't need the third row anymore in fact I'm setting you. I just texted you. A picture of Julie connects to the car It does not have a third row. We don't need that. Because we have the sequoia she really needs a third row that she was take the square But remember I didn't have rather sequoia when we got this. I had the Honda Accord so anyways. That's the cars beautiful. The IT had brand new snow tires. There's on it and had a set of one year old really good Michelin's wrapped up in bags in the back I don't know if you guys do snow tires. They're really because we don't know week we get we. I mean some as it looks like this. You'RE NOT GONNA get any snow and And when we do get it it tends to be for few days and then it melts yet. We don't get long periods of people don't tend to do the winstar thing here winter tires tires. You can only really really only should drive them for about three seasons and only in the winter months because they're very soft rubber They're very very very sticky and they give you they they make a regular car feel like a an all wheel drive or a four by four. I really do So I was happy those rod but it was just it was such a fantastic deal financially. Not only that. I still can't believe the I mean this car looks like just came. His office has been cleaned on a little kid. Came off the lawn. Armenia is there's no there's no I can see anyway from the p she sent me it doesn't allies any any dense bumps got nothing on it. You know it. It looks immaculate. Absolutely Amac Mike yet. I told the customer. Oh Yeah I told the customer that I'm going to buy it. Yeah I told them what the trade value was which was exactly what Kelley Blue Book said. They didn't blink And and you got the picture of Julian Florida but no yeah got it so And I there's no secrets here. I paid five thousand bucks those. Yeah which is a fantastic deal. Yeah it's thousands last than what it says in good condition condition and this is an excellent in very good condition. Yes everything's there. The only thing that doesn't work as a backup camera right. That's it which she's never had a backup camera she she doesn't care. Yeah but the fact that it doesn't work means I have to get it working eventually because it will drive me crazy the The the one thing that was intriguing to her was the headlight. Washer right she. She had to stand outside and see that in action uh and this hybrid which means you know she'll get good gas mileage Mosa her get. Her driving is less than ten miles a day. And it's within the whole miles else distance because Lianne has the ends yeras is a higher and that zero the reasons we call that for her because she does You know short journeys niece. This thing is butter smooth on the Road Man List Dot Com luxury driving experiences. This kind of what you want. And it's now that we're both in. Toyotas sold them. It's got a nice that we both have so so this I mean I'm very much much like you. I like Japanese cars. I think they're far better than calls built in the West Mice of the calls. I've had have been Japanese the Ah the Muslims have now. Is You know it dries very smooth as well on trusted for reliability because a game because it's a Japanese car Leeann has the Toyota Sir. But I sit here when you said she sent me to pitch me. Said I've always wanted Alexis. Have it consistently win in JD power in the UK Lexus. Alexis consistently year on year wins best. Customer experience still does Toyota. Yes lakes a specially over Toyota because because obviously there are a luxury brand they go that extra hill and the cars are extremely reliable. They're extremely smooth to drive there. You you know they all pretty much top notch. So that was one of her. Christmas g likes it. Yeah he was my fear fear though I had a genuine fear about this Julie is the type of person. WHO's she's very frugal when it comes to spending money on things so let's say she's been looking for? She's she loved Harry Potter stuff right so we'll be in a store and she'll see a t shirt. That's Harry Potter her as a really cool one two and it's on sale for five dollars she will stop and look at it and I'll look at it and it's a great shirt I go. Oh Oh and I could tell she likes it a lot. You should get that. No I don't I don't I don't need this honey. It's five bucks you they just get it now. That money is better spent elsewhere on other things and I'm are you kidding me. It's five to it's nothing. It's it's less than a McDonald's lunch but no she won't buy it whereas me I'll by spending money money on hotel. Yeah there is that I I don't know it's just. Her parents are kind of the same way but well in some respects hurt. Her parents will go thrift store shopping bag when her dad wasn't suffering suffering from the dementia they would drive everywhere in by everything but only thrift store stuff and her dad would proudly show me something that he just got at the thrift store. That I would en- you would consider junk. But he was happy to find find it and they you know that's but it was cheap. It was inexpensive. They wouldn't go buy something brand new so I think think Julia has that mentality certain point but she's happy with it and at the end of the day that's all I care about and that is one of her Christmas presents yet Anyway let's move on got a couple of stories that we wanted to talk about. The first one is I think this is more about patents and just making money rather than you know a consumer one thing and that's Tivo and to be honest. I thought Tiba was dead already. I mean I don't know anybody who uses too so sorry the little glitch right there. The Listener won't here but David I had some connection issues and I don't know it. It still sounds a little a glitch. David we had to switch over to skype because wire just kind of gave up the ghost. Yeah but I think I don't know if something's going on. I think it's on your end to be honest with you because things seem to be working butter smooth here but you're still coming across minus the connection this less reliable type of annuals and still lost log. We Lag Yup. Well we'll just try made the best. I guess. The pathology solicitous I I also we. We're GONNA talk about I didn't talk about is the Amish. She all night spare much older computer because my famous fifteen inch macbook pro that I was very pleased with whenever a couple months ago that she died on me just before we start recording and it looks like it's the logic is failing so I had to pull to pull out an on OLMEC MAC book and I suspect is also not particularly guy fans running on while we're doing this and they could be the machine this because does no problem it's Unfortunate that for us a new machine but it wasn't a brand new macbook pro. No it wasn't you know what fun for a couple of months. It was absolutely rock solid reliable but these these models are known for having logic borden in graphics problems the graphics cards. It was well known that this this will happen. I'm going to have to send off an truncated repaired you can get the The bolts kind of refloated and repaired by people. Know what they're doing with this now and that's I'd rather do that. I think even though the I'm you know then go out. And by the latest machines or more modern machine because they will have their own problems. Well unfortunately Mac laptops on on a good place in Memphis sometime. No and that's depressing. Because I think traditionally they've been some of the best laptops out there. But here's the problem. You use your Laptop Coppola for podcasting and it's one of the discussions that we were having before. who was that? There's not a lot of good options for podcasters in the PC world. Seems like all podcasters used. Max It does seem certainly when I search to try find that because I have a because of my work I have a lot of follow fall. newel formal robots windows machines. Have Max to be honest. I really don't you'd UC's more MAC for work. They don't let me do that anymore. So consequently the only anything I use my mcfaul is podcasting. which is one of the reasons why didn't really want to invest in one of the lighter ones because it would be a big investment for something that's used once a wait now? We'll have a brand. I have a brand new surface laptop that I bought on black Friday. It's the first Gen model but it's I seven is really nice. Machine said brand new now the volks but the problem is is that yeah as as the way I like to. PODCAST IS A. Let's record my voice while I'm talking to you and then at the same time be running. Wha L.. What have you so we can talk to each other and we record our own ends? The problem is recording. This end. I use on that. I use audio hijack which I like because because I can take any source I can also use this to record an interview with somebody over skype. An ashy separate that and two tracks something. That's completely easy to do audio hijack. Hi Jack I can't find equipment so for the for the PC which because you know traditionally you think of Mac versus pc where. There's a lot more I'm going back to the eighties in the two thousands of course but there's a lot more software nowadays on the P. C.. Well yeah and I think that's still true to a certain extent but I don't know when it comes to these niche type of things. I think the MAC is still king when it comes to photo editing and video editing I think the Mecca so much more Obama awesome when it comes to audio I everybody uses the Mac. Yeah she needs to be true but it consults me because I could really do with windows. I've been I. You see I record in adobe audition and that would probably work but again talking about a big step up in complexity detaille and cost either audio hijack and so I it to do I need to sit down and figure it out. You know I'm not going to invest no dishes until I'm sure that it does. It's the job for me and I need to sit down and see what it does see what he doesn't do see how I can make it to the things I need it to do. And it's a big complex program and that needs time. All human time is one things you and I are both short supply. The advantage of the MAC is it just works except when it doesn't because the machine fails I you You know and really. Ideally I would have is. I'd have a You know a more robust matlock. Macaroni Salad here. But my house too small for me to have a permanent desk so the space we have is the kids for school. So I don't have space for a MAC which is against abortion. Well when I hit the Lotto and I am a win like a hundred and fifty million dollars will set you up with a podcasting studio as a there and I'll do one here of of course and well not here in Michigan because if I want one hundred fifty nine dollars I'm telling the same I mean I I've five different shows that we do every day. Yeah exactly that's that's exactly my plan to and yes. I will invest in prior or something like that for doing that then but well well. Here's a question. Would you go you were doing this right. So you're setting up your stadium setting my studio. The MAC MAC pro is out now and we were joking affect you sent me a text last week that the highest configure ones like twenty five thousand dollars or something like that or was fifty fifty seven thousand. I thank you that was before I added the screen right. That was despite maxing out everything. So here's the question. Then you're setting up a studio. Are you going to go. What what what are you gonNA go? You're going to get the MAC pro or you're going to get the I MAC pro. I mean personally. I think that I would make way more sense I That's probably what I would go for. I think the you know the MAC pros much better. If you're doing video tape because you can add extra grunt to it you can have these fancy graphics cards that the do the you know. The makeup processing apple has often often been a card. That's like a a programmable ace it called the allows you to really optimize video rendering but you know for audio it's all to do with the processes and you can get eight or twelve core processes in in an I mac pro and then you getting an all in one unit with the screen the very good screen as well you know onto the screen one of the dilemmas that I've heard people talking about looking to buy the MAC pro. Is You know they the MAC priority expensive enough most configurations people want between seven and ten thousand dollars and and then the only screen option. They've got they want something. That kind of fits the aesthetic and is completely reliable and also connects easily easily because of the type of connection to as is the APPALACHIA display. But that's another six seven thousand dollars so it's a doubling of the price just for the screen and not that's that's not good value for most people because most people don't need the features of that screen and let's be honest off by crappy two hundred fifty you buy two crappy two hundred fifty fifty LG. Melissa and yeah you do audio processing. So you're not going to you not gonNA benefit from that screen right and then you the whole fact of the Mac back pro is going to be noisier than Iraq is just as an another very quiet but not for audio. You can't have a machine that decides now's the time to run on the fans in so I think I think for our hypothetical studios here. I think we're going with the twenty seven inch I mac pro MHM Speaking monitors you know. As my day job I work at a dealership and I. AM probably when it comes to the TAC way more advanced than most people there for reasons so are networked computers. Are there little towers tiny little. Dell's that doesn't have a whole lot of punch to him. Which is fine because everything we do is cloud based anyways just internet stuff right including our crm? It's not stored locally you don't store anything locally except for you know maybe a pdf and stuff like that. That found that he's the vacate the dealership and move somewhere else because of break INS or fire. Ah the source of risks that having cars might expose your building too you can immediately south operation somewhere else you get stuck and then you can operate have anyway or if my computer later died completely I just plug in other computer inside into my account right back where I loved it minus the stuff on my desktop which is fine Because I don't actually keep anything. Hang on my desktop that you know I I can do. I can't do without it. It's all cloud based so as such. They don't spend a lot of money on these machines jeans and that includes the monitor so we all have dual monitor setups. But they're all these well the the the the dells and the HP monitors that came with these computers. And you know they're all either seventeen or nineteen inch monitors with pretty bad resolution. Well well the perfect while old is well. Yeah so you know what what you seven or eight years ago. In terms of mosses the dig it will be. The cheapest choice was was adequate and not much not really any bets in that right and they're not going to upgrade these monitors anytime soon I mean and I get it the they they work fine. Would he knew monitor for for well. this past week we have what's called a poll board this time of the year and you sell a car and it's delivered its guys burning. GASCOYNE down the road you get a pull on pull board and you pull a folded envelope with a card inside of it and there's a dollar amount written written on a card and so obviously the more cars you sell the more polls you get the more money you make. Yeah so I had What was it three? Polls on the board of the last time and so I pull these cards. I sold more cars but they were delivered yet got so and one of them was two hundred and Fifty Bucks da so I was quite happy with that but I spent a hundred hundred and fifty on it of that money because I kind of consider it free money. Yeah on a thirty two inch curved Samsung Samsung. HDMI screen that plugs. Right into my computer and health. The difference is phenomenal For the first I ten minutes of using this curve screen it seemed weird yeah and and where I've got set up. I see the reason that oh I did this as I wanNA see more on my screen a much more efficient if I can have quick access to different things and even the dual screen monitor setup because where I had to put my second monitor. Ver- I'm constantly turning my head to look over here and then look at the screen. I didn't like that so you you replace both Mrs. But there's no I still kept the second monitor for just e mail which I don't really need is most of my email. That is business related comes through the crm the rest of it. You know his notification of this so that right okay So ninety nine percent of the time I'm looking at this big screen now and that was the case before except it was a much smaller screen so I was constantly a juggling windows. Don't have to do that now. And it's now that I'm used to this dual this curve screen. I I actually really like it now. It it does not have the resolution of a setup sitting in front of right now even though it's a bigger screen this is a twenty seven inch one at work is the thirty two. So you think you're you're GONNA see a lot more. No I actually see a lot more on the one that I'm in front of now because as a much higher resolution and the other one is a an Hei Ten Eighty P screen right. That's pretty limiting. That's pretty small compared to what I get on this one. Yeah my resolution on the screen. I can't even remember what it was gonNA pull up my my monitor that up in the dock though or in MELTSA where's my monitor. It's been so long since I've gone to the monitor display. So I'm at well. It doesn't say rotation you You have to change the resolution from default for display to scale to see what you running at that. I don't see scale scaled. Oh Yeah Two twenty five sixty by fourteen forty four fourteen forty paper. The here's the thing right for old guys like you and I you know. That's my reservations. Thousands of all they do they make everything smaller which we can't see because we've got old is so actually you know what probably ten. ATP IS PRO is this guy is good for old guys. Those young guns can use because even if you have him on this yeah you I mean they come out of the box apple scales them to run the festively like ten eighty p resolution even though that yeah it looks like tonight even though it's using display they don't give you you know. Genuine one for one resolution picks resolution on a Mac. No because you wouldn't see it and so it's the same same and you know when the good things about I don't know whether you running windows ten on says machines at work when the good things that windows ten thousand yet. Nowadays unlike old divisions will windows. It's much much better at scaling resolutions properly hopefully and adjusting font size in the systems and everything so it looks looks on a high resolution. Melissa Yeah I tell you I was extremely. We're happy the same as it was one hundred and fifty bucks. Half this is this is the apple. Doesn't sell Mona's anymore. More apart from that project geologist play while they were always great. They will always three three times more. Cost than than what you could get your remember when the things I did on this show or on. The previous show was talking about Adele misery. That was the equivalent of a cinnamon supplier. And Yeah I paid two hundred pounds for it. Rather than the six hundred and fifty pounds they wanted to know display. I looked screaming. Apples been in the expense of monitor business for a very long time and I never understood it to this day. I don't because if the competition is even if it's almost as good but it's a quarter of the cost why why would you not get sensation. Think just doesn't make anything. I'll tell you one of the reasons now. The apple does not sell. Mona says they sell their primary desktop. Line is the I. Mac is exactly for this reason because they'd rather just put a good display instant computer yet and sell it it to his Nolan one. They you know most people are perfectly happy with that the realities is that most people buying Max. They want a desktop machine though by night. Most People Vinai Yup and they'll be very happy. They are the screens on the MACs. Always been very even the entry level ones which is kind of is really machine. Nobody should buy lie because the internals are so old that the screens almost those entry level twenty one and a half in China Retina. But they're still very good screens compared to what you buy from. HP or somebody else so one of the things that we're talking about before wire crash and we skipped over escape here And it's been a long time since we either one of Zeus skype Pretty good actually. Yes it's working fine. I'll go to be on skype for business time at work and I don't time is very good so so we're talking. We started talking about Tibo to merge with entertainment tech firm. Now I don't know how to say the same Experi X. P. Experi maybe. I don't know who the hell knows. I never posted. Branding got nine. That people might not be able. Let's put the stupid guy. Yeah I didn't know that was even still in business but this merger doesn't look consumer focus. This looks patent focused. I I e. Hey we have all these patents and a lot of the tech world. Entertainment world is using these technologies. That quite fairly Tivo invented and popularized even though their products haven't risen to the top. They remember at the time everybody wanted to Tibo because they they invented the DVR. And that's Oh my God you can pause it and you ca- skip commercials and it was amazing. Now that's commonplace. That's anything to do that. Your set top box from your cable company. Does that so it's not that big of a deal anymore. But they invented it. I'm sure it's patent protected and all that the problem is Tibo lost out the consumer market. They're they're also ran at this point. I don't know anybody who uses Tivo. Nobody so this is all all about patents. That's how they make their money licensing that they say it right up the from from the precedent for this they say experien- tvos to combine complaining. ALITA in Cosima de Saint Technology and IP licensing. And you know what this is about. I guarantee this for people going on what what they're gonNA dig of the cable companies. Now they're gonNA go after people who have streaming services like netflix affluent when Disney who have deep pockets and going to say. Oh Yeah. Those interfaces us on Netflix that's TV technology already pay for these things. I mean that's the only reason tvos still in business because it was just a consumer focused company which is what I thought. They were Because honestly I never really thought about much to begin with in in the last ten years That's probably already how they do make their money. That's why they still exist. They probably already have all these agreements with all these companies. That's why this Experi Experi company is basically going to take them over because that's where the value is. That's not a bad business proposition though. I mean if everybody's going streaming everybody's everybody's going online and then it's your underline pants and technology this kind of helping drive that which is probably why when you get onto a Disney plus a Hulu Hulu An Amazon Netflix all. The interfaces are kind of similar It might be just because of this because they have the the patents for these things and thus you know. Hey you gotta pay the Piper to use this type of technology and I don't have a problem with that per se but but I kinda do at the same time but let's be honest even if you and I started Something and we invented something in everybody else started aping at. We'd want to get paid but yeah the I can't help feeling that if Chievo really had a strong ooh passant leg to stand on with some of these things than they would have already done the approaches and got the licensing salted now. I bet they already had on wants licenses. That's why they're still Pangani that paying they're paying three billion dollars to buy TV right. Yeah and then you look through the statement and it says that the companies expect to achieve at least fifty million dollars of annualise run right cost-savings integrating writing there are products in Ip licensing. Business Right. So they're going to save some money and bring those together you have if they're paying three billion dollars expecting to generate far more revenue than Tibo currently does and the only way they can do that is by an is by sending people for for money. They don't paying at the moment Stephen. I'm telling you this is a patent troll deal and it's not going to positive experience for everybody for the twenty. You mentioned the twelve months that ended September twentieth to two companies together earned one point zero nine billion combined revenue and billings and more more than two hundred and fifty million in operating cash flow. So that tells it doesn't break out which ones doing more but that tells me me that Tivo has is still making money. They're not going to give them three billion dollars on hoping that they can go after a bunch of patent trolls Or become a patent troll. I think people people already has all these licensing agreements in place And this new company sees that getting stronger and stronger and stronger Chris. Time goes on. I think that's what it's about. I don't think they're going to become a patent troll. I think they may already be that consumer boomer licensees include Hawaii. LG Microsoft Nikon Panasonic and Sony. And that's experi experience. Yeah they getting. Licensing D. T. S. which is Like Adobe type situation on mobile and headphones getting some HD radio stuff for a couple of car models but You know their quarterly results here. Yeah and has a patent licensing deals with PAY-TV OPERAS INCLUDING AT and T. L. USA charter sky. Verizon has been locked in a long running running legal battle dispute with comcast so I this is this company is all about. I patent one hundred percent. Yep Yep so I think that he will is a consumer facing product. What is dead? I think they've been that for a long time. Yeah they've been you know. I know I'd focuses. Lessons is still have the TVOS and constantly. Isn't he complained. When when the platform is upgraded and I use that word advisedly because the upgrades the pizza be downgraded in functionality and and And the service you know Yeah I can hear. The they've this company has got litigation against nvidia. At the moment they have just reached settlement with Samsung or the reach one last year over memory. Emory patents. This is what they do. You know what I guarantee you. They're GONNA go after the people. The biggest book pockets is going to be apple. It's GonNa be net afflicts Disney comcast. Yeah anybody who does streaming by they can. Cause I guarantee what they're after is expanding the tvos Platt patterns patterns which are about doing this thing on the standalone computer connected to your TV into doing the same things over streaming service. And they're going to say all the patents to say even though is the by now he's no it isn't of course not this past ideas and and your ideas kind of similar to mind so you gotta pay me. It's always been distasteful to me. I think it is to consumers as as a general rule unfortunately in the media landscape. No one's ever GonNa talk about this. Well they want until the little CAESARS. Come out and then they won't talk about the Meat Consumers People Watch news. Don't really care about lawsuits. It'll be places They talk about it if it well. The thing is if these if these lawsuits lead to increase costs for consumers than they gonNA know about it because because that'd be my move is if somebody puts the straw may saying that you know Mike onscreen controls covered by some patent from Tivo. I'm get a show I'm GonNa make sure the news knows about that. So they know this are you hear about is Disney pluses going to raise their rates by dollar a month. And you could be not yet if I'm if I'm going to raise my rice because some patent buddies because of the pantry that's my mic. My as a consumer I would I would expect as delivering to a consumer without me as a company hassle raise my race because of a patent license deal. I'M GONNA go to the media. Make sure everybody knows. Yeah but unfortunately the same companies that. We're talking about participate in the same kind of strong arm. But you don't have to tell tell anybody that Eh if you're apple and and you can fight back against the patent you're going to go public about the fact that somebody's having a guy for you. I'm not GONNA mention that you're doing the science while the people well. That's kind of already down there. Yeah they're already in Lockton legal battle with that with Cisco isn't it. Well that's my anything about it and we're Mac fans I mean that's kind of the point. It's all team side. Yeah Yeah exactly The other news that I want to talk about before we wrap up episode of Tech Fan is I've been allowed critic of the current designs cellphones. I think they're still the boring. I'm talking about the software. I'm talking about the physical phones. They're boring. I'm tired tired of the same type of phone that I've been using since two thousand seven and Magic Magic slapstick lost delight. You'll Kendall they really don't I get excited briefly when apple out the new iphone and it's got three cameras. Now you know super screens and okay. Well then two months later. I'm Mike. It's the same phone that I'm using right now Motorola Kinda was going to do something different. They're bringing back the razor. Except it's a foldable phone and it's it vertically rather than horizontally or did I get that I know right foals like the race did which was fg always similar to the communication star Trek. Yes right you hold you. Had then you flip it up exactly and then then he doubles whereas what Samsung was Samsung. Samsung Motorola was astute. No Samsung Santa Claus. Simpson sometimes one kind of items. Like a book. Yes so that was horizontal. Well whatever is like a book one lucky communicator. And the community to make more sense because it's actually going to save more space in your pocket that way exactly but the problem is is that apparently early like little things. Nowadays it was it was talked about it was promoted. It was said this was the second coming of technology before they had it working and they said that you were going to have a certain pre ordering of December twenty sixth. Yeah down the SANGO would not quite ready for that. Got So this this this since its announcement in November November people among ago the new Motorola Razor has received an unparalleled unparalleled excitement and interest from consumers demand has been high hi and as a result has quickly outgrown supply. Predictions Motorola has decided to adjust razors. pre-sale launch timing to better meet consumer demand. We're working determine the appropriate quality or quantity and schedule and ensure that more consumers have access to the razor at launch. We do not dissipate a significant shift from our original availability time line but they didn't say when it is and I and who ever heard of a company when they've got massive interest in pre the orders and they're going to outstrip supply saying well the best thing to do is not shift anything out robin sell out completely and then tell customers. They'll have to wait till we build some which is what does which which is what everybody does. Yeah Nepal but Nintendo's the master of the cell and everybody wants there's a scramble and you see him online and people set up websites to to tell you whether available and all other already sold out. Nintendo is the we've talked about this. Remember the hunter classic. Exactly whether you whether you like. Whether we've we've riled against Intendo for you know and not anticipated demand not building enough things for doing the point. The point is you always do that if you can do because else at least then you have the publicity buzz you have it in customers hands you have people who are happy with it you those websites where people are selling them w list price and everything all of that is good. Pr All these wasted pop up but what you do is say. Oh we're just we're going to hold off selling it for a while because funny Exactly I think smell cracked stream. I don't I don't think that they're even close to shipping. This thing. I think many problems are like dude. This is not worth all. This is basically this was going to be the problem along with. These folds is that you can't fill them to a full ninety degree angle because that breaks screens right and I think what they've not solved yet is how they fold a vertical flip phone in a way that actually avoids putting team radio on the screen so it breaks and the has the right idea. which is it's two screens? Yeah that's completely must agree with you because you can do screens very close to the edge now and nobody really. He cares about the rich in the mill. Nobody will care. The whole point is nobody wants one big continuous green especially on this which is going to be thin. Well it's nobody wants it. I just don't think people care if there's a line between the two screen you know what I mean. I think a bigger screen as long as it doesn't take a big footprint in your pocket because that's where the hearts and minds are one. I have this big screen but I can fold it up and it fits in my pocket and it's awesome but nobody wants is a screen that doesn't fold properly the gap the guests Dawson or it breaks which is exactly what the Samsung phone with razor. Are you know it if they have not solved this problem and and I. It's well known that a Youtuber Uber mocked up what would be a Motorola Razor in the modern age and Motorola saw that and then basically said yes. That's what we're making and they jumped the gun. They look stupid now and I think it's hilarious. The other the other from you remember before before apple came along with the iphone and apparently conducted screens type. That you're on the IPHONE way you know. It's very responsive to have been invented for some time but for some reason nobody was using them. They're always does resisted screens where you had a plastic layer of your screen and when you press down on that AH created a conduction point and screen you where you're pressing. The Newton had the palm pilot. Had it basically everything that had a touchscreen had and they were Aka because you could feel the movement that plastic screener and also because it was plastic was soft scratched easily. Yeah the difficulty with all. The folding phones is bringing getting that bank because you have to make the screen out of plastic because it has to fold full glass and nobody's going to like the way they feel. Nobody no because we we all want gloss screens because evidently better experience the plastic screen. Yep and. That's why I say Microsoft gotTa right because they are putting glass screens dual screen two screens. I think it's kind of awesome Microsoft's solution to this problem to me and we talked about this when when they call this the surface. Something I said they have to the safest neo and the surface GIO. And don't tell me don't ask me which is one is is like a screen laptop and the other one is to screen fame. I think both of them are the right direction Apple Apple is paying attention to this. Yeah I guarantee you could say what you want about much of software With this one the laptop light one is going to be running a cutdown. A streamlined version of windows. And then the phone will run android with much so flaps on now you can say what you want about this approach. I'll tell you one thing that Microsoft is generally pretty good at hitting the mark. STREIT offer company this. This never really built these devices before about five years ago. Is there hold ways normally pretty good you know. Oh you won't pick up these phones ago with hall where is a fail straight out which is exactly what people said with the Samsung Motorola and suddenly said with this is the hardware adequate adequate screw the software. And I think that's where we're gonNA leave it Get another company. That wanted to jump the gun. You you know. Don't don't show us which he actually got it and You lose a lot of faith in the people that would have supported you tarez doing the same anything right now. They've got that the new Atari Twenty six hundred BC coming out and they keep releasing all this news about it but so far it's ghost ghost and the people who I think some of the Classic Arcade Game Software to facebook. Most of them are like this is never actually gonNA come out or if it does. It's not going to be anything like they promised. And this is why I give some credit to apples with their seats. Their secrecy that they don't announce it until it's ready for the most part but they've done that passes off. Hello charging pad for my iphone watch. Well Oh yeah you know. But even with Mac pro they they only gave a six month lead on what was going to get the only when they had the details on on the now damn I I I think they will looks to me like they really came close to get that thing shipping this year to meet that deadline took the two thousand seventeen and the reality is is for people reviewing I think most customers long getting until next year. But you know that that kind of is what is that the you know you have to play the marketing game with my problem with apple is not so much them preannouncing products and then releasing them they announced and released released products that have major flaws and ignore the flaws for years that seems to be around their Mo.. Yeah so David I know you're not gonNA be here next next week when we do Geeks Paul. I'm going to. I'm going to Israel for a wedding site so we will be back in Two weeks with another episode of Tech Fan. Unless we just can't hold off and we have to do an extra geeks pub simply to talk about star. We'll see But I will see you in a couple of weeks. Have a good Christmas to you. And all those. This bye bye

apple Mac Samsung Julie Disney UK skype Motorola David Toyota Netflix Alexis sequoia US Tibo David I adobe Charlotte
Ditching Offline Marketing to Run Facebook Ads

Strength In Business

12:58 min | 5 months ago

Ditching Offline Marketing to Run Facebook Ads

"Welcome to strengthen business. Podcast which is all about maximizing your impact by implementing a powerful Marketing System. That will help you perform at your highest level. And now here is your host Chris. Rock welcome to the strength of this. Podcast might Chris Rock and today's topic. Is that offline marketing to run facebook ads. Now if you've been listening to this podcast you know that during the past two months. I've been running a ton of intensive alive workshops especially in London United Kingdom. I met a ton of amazing people. Some of them marketing professionals others business owners. Water students as well alumni. Some of them wanted to leave the professional world. The corporate the wall of the financial institutions will to join the entrepreneurial journey whereas others were on a on their own business journey trying to Get better results from their face. Cats Very mixed groups there and was a lot of fun teaching them how to improve and get better results from running facebook and instagram hats. So and I promise. I'll come back to you with certain topics that popped during the workshop. Because I think it's It's really good talking about them. Especially if there's a something that kind of like ghost like a thread to the entire thing and I really wanted to share that with you. So that's why today that. Ching offline marketing to run FACEBOOK ADS. Now for those of you tuning in for the very first. Stein first of all. Welcome to the show. And second of all like to point out that I do the recordings at based on the blog posts that you can find on strengthening business dot com so for those of you will also like to have a written format. Maybe you WANNA download it you WANNA share it with. Somebody else was not necessarily listening to the PODCAST. You can do so simply hop over to strengthen business dot com forward slash block and you will find all these episodes in written format there. So let's get started ditching. Offline marketing to run FACEBOOK ADS. Facebook ADS are super powerful. There's no doubt about that if you have instagram. And Messenger adds to the equation. Chances are you'll reach a vast amount of your ideal audience for pennies on the dollar now. Obviously that's about to change in a couple of years maybe three years when big business finally decides to pour a higher percentage of their Media Aka ad budgets into social. That's not happened yet. However when these big boys and goals to decide a to let's say put the less of their entire budget in two traditional media such as TV and the magazines and pour a higher percentage into facebook Youtube Google into a say snapchat ads or maybe in the future. Take talk at Thanks we'll change now at the beginning of this year. Iran several intensive facebook advertising workshops in London in the United Kingdom. Where once again? I had the amazing opportunity to help and connect with business. Owners and marketing professionals from different industries were Assam. Attend these use Stephen to familiarize themselves with the way facebook instagram ads could help them leave. Their current jobs and joined the entrepreneurial journey authors came in with a clear intention to take their social advertising skills to the next level some of the marketing professionals from well renowned financial institutions and corporations. I'm just mentioning a few of them. I have people from Amazon from Google or even from Deutsche Bank and all of these professionals are reminded me of my own journey. I started running facebook. Ads Backing Twenty twenty eleven. Any was one of the skill sets. That helped me leave the corporate world and propel my own business therefore I very much understood their concerns and emotions in regards to leaving a so quote unquote safe haven to embark on the show. What struck me. Though was another group of attendees it was a few of the business owners who at some point decided to ditch all their other offline marketing activities such as for example referral systems distributing sales for Thursday to local gas stations to local stores to schools and redirect all of their money and energy into running ads on facebook and instagram. Now why with a business owner poor all his or her money into social advertising to the detriment of say word of mouth marketing. That's making up eighty percent or more of their business. Why would somebody do that? Is it? Because it's more comfortable to run from a computer instead of shaking hands answering questions from customers and asking for referrals. Look sometimes it's wise to deploy the all in strategies as we like to call it whereas other times it's silly and straight up dumb now. Here's the thing. Facebook ADS are in the cure for all your business problems. If you're an avid the listener off my podcast you know that I am a strong very strong advocate of doubling tripling or even quadrupling down on your shrinks meaning if roughly eighty percent of your business say sixty percent. I don't care but if that amount if that high percentage of Your Business is generated via word of Mouth Marketing Ata recommendations from friends colleagues and consumers then I would do whatever it takes to put a formalized referral system in place you will want to create and implement. A referral program is intentional. Meaning it doesn't rely solely on employees customers by their elbow and asking them for random referrals. Yes you need to invest into the system and integrated into your overall business process. Remember it has to be intentional if you're not doing it professionally. You're not just leaving money on the table but you also waste your precious time. Let me reiterate again the fact that facebook ads are an amazing all online marketing vico if used correctly and integrated with other online and offline marketing activities it can lead to tremendous results. Most the rich are measurable. That's the keyword most of which are measurable today. It seems like everybody wants to work remotely and be left alone to spend their entire day on the smartphone whether this behavior is helpful to you and the human racing general goes beyond the purpose of this podcast obviously based on this behavior. You are confronted with on a daily basis. And maybe just maybe you yourself can relate to quite deeply. You won't be inclined to conclude that all businesses on on social by running ads. Efforts wrong thinking to this they them. Most successful businesses are built on the backbone of meaningful relationships. Nothing beats face to face. The elite knows this very well. And that's why they continue to hang out at high caliber conferences such as the World Economic Forum in Davos Switzerland. Or maybe you've heard off the Bilderberg conference. This is where they meet in person and closed deals behind doors. The wealthiest people on the planet understand the power of face to face because face to face has the highest sales impact period. Okay so why are doing it? And why are you ditching? Everything that has to do with it. And you're switching onto facebook advertising. Why did he do that? Look Technology has made things easier. It allows us to exchange information at lightning speed and connect worldwide with like minded people without the cost of travelling however technology and therefore facebook ads instagram ads. Google ads Amazon. You name it adds cannot and will never ever compensate the losses. You make by ditching. Offline marketing activities. Get Out of your own way and continue to build meaningful relationships use facebook as as an integral part of your marketing bouquet without this regarding and more importantly this respecting the offline world and this is coming from somebody who was built also one of the pillars one of the pillars that. I built my business on facebook cats right. So I'm doing workshops. I'm running my academy but are not rely. I'm definitely not relying on facebook gas right. There are a very important part of my business but I would never bitch Referral Marketing. I would never ditch wool of mouth. I would never dietsch. Meaning people face to face and talking to them All money into facebook remember with facebook. Ads You're building your house on somebody else's land. Yes you can send traffic to your web sites and other sources that you owe. But if you're entire business depends on the blue social media giant in Silicon Valley and one day suck the sites to close down the whole thing and go on a prolonged vacation. You're done and so is your business. Therefore think before you ditch something. Yes at facebook adds to the equation. No doubt about that. They are a very very powerful tool. However at the same token strengthen your referral process yes expand your knowledge get new skills. Worldcom your mindset to be able to grow your business now over to you. What about you? Have you poured all your money into facebook ads to the detriment of all other offline marketing activities How do you go about this or do have several pillars in place and do place more attention to the one polar? Maybe it's word of mouth the generating most of your revenue and profits. LemMe know I'd love to hear answers. You can reach out to me on twitter at Chris Rock and obviously on all other social channels as well as always. I'd like to leave you with a main takeaway today with a golden nugget. And if if there's one thing that I would definitely want to highlight is this Don't ever ditch will the mouth or referral or face to face. It is so important. The La the wealthiest people on the planet would not do it. If it wasn't the most successful tool lesson success leaves clues and you should follow these clues. Use FACEBOOK ADS to propel your business use facebook gas degenerate and awareness degenerate attention to generate click a website to do retargeting to do conversions however. Don't just rely on FACEBOOK ADS and double triple down on all those other activities that you do. They're bringing in way more revenue than may be faced with gats. This meeting said thanks for listening. Thank you for your loyalty. I'll catch up with you in the next episode. Happy Marketing and remember to always play to your strength. Thank you for listening to the strength in business. Podcast submit your questions on strengthen business dot Com and follow Chris on twitter at Chris. Rock that's K. R. I S. C. R. O. K. K.

facebook Chris Rock instagram business owner London United Kingdom Google Amazon Stephen La Backing Twenty twenty Stein Assam Worldcom United Kingdom K. R. I S. C. R. O. K. K London Davos Switzerland
285 - Jason Silva & Marie Forleo on Ideas, Technology & The Future

The Marie Forleo Podcast

26:25 min | 11 months ago

285 - Jason Silva & Marie Forleo on Ideas, Technology & The Future

"Welcome to the Marie Forleo podcast the Audio version of my award winning show Murray TV TV now be sure to visit Marie forleo dot com slash Marie TV where you'll find hundreds of other episodes. Thanks for listening Hey One more thing. Do you think three words can change your life. I say they can and in fact they will. Whether you WANNA leave a dead end job Bob break an addiction learned a dance Hilo relationship grow a business master your money or even solve world hunger the three words. You need our way for it. Everything is figure out a ball. I gotta say that little phrase has changed my life and it's the title of my new book which is about to change yours. It's available now also go get your copy at everything figure out DOT com. Hey it's Marie forleo and you are watching TV the place to be to create a business S. and life you love so if you're anything like me you love subjects like technology and creativity and spirituality and thinking about how all of these incredible universes universes are coming together. Miraculous ways will my guest today is one of the leading thinkers speakers and philosophers on this topic and so much more call Timothy Leary of the viral video age by the Atlantic Jason Silva delivers philosophical shots of Espresso which unravel the incredible possibilities the future has has to offer the human race host of national geographics hit show brain games. Jason Silva is an extraordinary new breed philosopher who meshes philosophical wisdom of the ages with an infectious optimism for the future using his series of short videos which play as movie trailers for Ideas Jason Explores the CO evolution of humans and and technology and have garnered over two million views jason has been featured in CBS News the Atlantic. The economist Vanity Fair Forbes wired Ted Dot Com among others and he was also featured as part of the gap icons campaign an idea DJ and visual poet. Jason Silva is above all an optimist and curator of by DEA inspiration and all Jason. Thank you so much for being here today. How food you so much for having me sell. I know we're going to talk about a lot of really cool. Things Creativity tippety future ism all kinds of stuff but actually want to start off going back to the past so I know that oftentimes we can see the seeds of who someone is is to become what they're meant to do in this world when we look in the past and I know that you actually started doing these salons in your house. Can you tell us a little bit about that. Jesus Sir I grew up in Venezuela and I used to go to an international school so my friends were all over the world and all the time we had new kids coming into the school because their parents were working for multinational national companies so they'd be stationed there so people were new all the time in the school and one of the ways that we made people feel at home right away was used to organize them and bring them invite them into my crew and I used to organize these salons in my house and basically they were idea jams we would share books and scenes from movies that we love then we drank wine nine and we hung out and Venezuela you can buy alcohol it pretty young age but yeah I always I always loved ideas and I always loved recording ideas because one of the things that sort of haunted me from a very young age was that inspiration was really fleeting. Inspiration was defined by its permanence and so my way of like arresting bad of capturing these he's inspired exchanges with my friends was through the camera so I pretty much had video cameras since I was twelve and had been documenting my mind gems ever since then. That's incredible ever look back on those. Yes yes as a matter of fact could even show you a little clip if you want. Definitely we're GONNA make that you're GONNA see four hundred thirty. Two traffic's okay cool. Is that where you started thinking to yourself. Okay I want to do this for my life. I think so yeah I I always loved the movies and I always loved getting kind of immersed in cinema and I thought that cinema was the best way to mediate mediate encounters with transcendence and inspiration. You know I didn't grow up religious at all so I didn't get that from traditional religious spaces but to me cinemas the last altar left cinema was the place where I felt like I- transcended the ego and I connected with something larger than myself whether it was the characters or their mythic journey or their transformation transformation whatever was to me. Cinema was Cathartic so there was no doubt that I was going to go to film school and get involved in making content in some capacity but because I was kind of a child hi of the digital revolution I was responding to the restrictions liberations that came with that so rather than going the route of trying to make feature length films or docs. I fell in love with the short form college and the fact that I had a video camera since I was twelve had shown me that I could have really quick turnarounds. That's the thing about digital video. It's like you could just shoot it if it looked cool on the little viewfinder than you could repeat record and you can really capture the moment and you could very quickly turn that around and so. I- after that there it was just no way that I could go to the more slow production vibe you know. I just had to keep it at that speed and that has that's been my journey's. That's incredible and so we're you both behind behind the camera and in front of the camera. I originally was all about directing so when I was like twelve thirteen fourteen I would direct my little brother and we do these spoofs short films and so on and so forth and have blast and at the time I had no editing equipment so I had to edit in real time in my head and we shot in sequence and the cuts were in my head and I'd start start and stop and do the next shot and so on and so forth and but it was really in like later in highschool with those salons sessions that was videotaping that I started to turn the camera on on myself so not only was I videotape my friends and and sort of mind mind jamming conversations that were happening but at some point I sort of felt like if I wanted to narrate or say something I was like okay. Hey just hold the camera and I just had a camera my friend. I start like yapping about something and then later on. I was surprised that my my rantings are actually somewhat lucid you know because at the time I had no real experience of the minute you put the camera on me I would get self conscious but but in those instances I was able to be in no mind state and actually get in the zone on and get into flow and this was the best stuff seemed to emerge so then at that point it became. I still wanted to control the creative but I was like you know what I can narrate my own stuff. Yeah I mean and you're you're absolutely stunning on it and that's actually I was so excited. When I came across one of your most popular videos I was like I have got to get in touch with Jason. I need him on ATV because you are absolutely you're born to do this in. You're brilliant. Absolutely you're welcome so let's talk more about creativity. You think creativity is just one of those. It's just just such a fascinating subject. I'm Marie TV. Were always coming up with ideas and everything else. We do in the business for you when it comes to creativity. Do you think that there's ever in new ideas everything in interational version of something that's come before that's that's. I kind of fall in line with that notion that everything is kind of a remix. Everything builds it's on pre existing knowledge base and creative people are people that are able to connect the dots in a new way arrange the Legos in a different order but but using the same building blocks. There's actually a series on the web. That's really popular called. Everything is a remix that's genius and it just shows a lot of things that we consider original or actually again a remix of what came before and so that's where. I think that whole notion about steal like an artist or you know good artists borrow great artists steal because the the truth of the matter is everything builds on what came before so as long as you site where your inspiration comes from or you give credit to wear you're connecting the dots from beyond that that I think we all kind of share in that space in which ideas can have sex and they should all belong to all of us. Yes actually that's what I wanted to talk about next. I thought it was such an interesting turn of phrase. Obviously it's like a little bit saucy a little bit. Sassy talk to me about ideas having sex and why you're so passionate about bringing these very interesting thing amazing philosophical philosophical concepts and packaging them in a mainstream way that everybody can get well that term ideas having sex rex. I think it came after I read Steven Johnson's book where good ideas come from a natural history of innovation which is a dazzling book about the origin of ideas and he writes a lot there about how we need to create a space ecology of thought and he talks about how cities are fertile spaces uses for ideas to have sex because of the density of the way people are arranged near each other people from different backgrounds co mingling together sprouts new re combinations of ideas. He talks about the rise of coffee shop as another instance in history that led to a lot of ideas because you put a lot of people in a small space you give them lots of caffeine and ideas intermingle mutate and sprout and in the age of the Internet all of a sudden even the city even though it's still a very creative place. It's not a necessary precursor anymore because the age of the Internet we transcend distance and time and space itself so now anybody who is interested in anything can coalesce around someone else was interested in the same thing and they can have that kind of ideas idea sex but I love the metaphor of talking about ecology or space where ideas which are like organisms can have sex which is the whole the solution of we went from a world of jeans a world of memes so ideas these memes are these living things ideas leap from brain to brain. They compete for the resources verses of our attention. They have infectivity. They have spreading power. This notion that ideas are live is is a wonderful idea and actually I remember in one of your videos. You talked about about how they retain some of the characteristics of organisms and that just kind of blew my mind. I want to hear Jason Talk about that. Well that was Richard Dawkins in the selfish office gene I believe in the seventies this book where he introduced the term me and of course meam rhymes with jeans and he says you know we used to live in world where information was only exchanged through sex sexual reproduction that's how genetic information mixed with other genetic information but with culture with language all of a sudden and we had this new information technology that allowed us to encode information in vocal patterns and transmitted through time and space outside of DNA that was a new you replicator writing allowed us to encode information. Take it outside of the mind and put it over there and let it spread. Let other people read it so it was this is this notion that at that point we went from a world of genes to a world of memes and that this new replicator accelerated our capacity to transform form the world because it just it started building and building and building and building and building and now we live in that we have the global nervous system where information is traveling faster than ever. I mean it's it's a wild space right yeah. It's refined thoughts travelling at the speed of light. It's so exciting to me and often times. I just really stop and think about how much I I love the Internet. I talk about unlike it. I remember getting online for the first time in going. I can reach people in another part of the world that would never never have a chance to connect with on a spiritual level on any level and it literally makes me want to jump Outta my skin. I think there was a famous Jesuit priest called tailored discharged in and he talked about the Omega Point and the acceleration of technology is leading towards this apex where we all kind of merge into this Super Meta organism. He refer to it as the new US fear that rises above the biosphere so it's this membrane is going to surround the earth. That's all mind. It's all thought it's all the thoughts of billions of people finally becoming this sort of Meta organism and it's a wild idea but think about it. I mean you create a piece of content that doesn't it just inspire the people in this room but that inspire somebody in South Korea or in Berlin and it might change the book that they decide to read that day which might change changed the major that they go for in college which might then change the course of human evolution because they might invent something so. It's like we do now. Ideas are a force of evolution Russian and the fact that our ideas are unbounded by normal Euclidean meet space limitations of distance and time means that we're in this world where thought ought travels at the speed of light and thought evolves and mutates and wow knows where that's going to go but it's an exciting time if used wisely. How much do you love that. Were alive right now. And how much do you love especially given what you do and your skill set and your passion yeah one hundred percent. I mean look technology gets a lot of criticism and that's because technology always been a double edged sword and I understand I mean when we discovered fire. It's been famously says you could use fire to cook your food and and that led to this acceleration or capacity to absorb nutrients and it freed us to have all this time to think and so on and so forth but you can also use fire to burn your enemies you can use the alphabet to write Shakespearean sonnets that enrich the imagination or you can use the alphabet composed hate speech and lead people to kill each other so technology extends but it can extend into any direction and it's how we use these tools ultimately determines if they're good at her bad but I haven't unwavering belief leave that if you look at the macro trends overall. We tend to use these things for good Steven. Johnson wrote a whole other book about that future perfect where he talks about look. It's not utopia but it's leaning that way. The world has never been less violent than it is today contrary to what you see in the Media Steven Pinker Old Myth of violence Ted talk says that the chances this is a man dying at the hands of another man or the lowest than they've ever been in the history of man. yeah if you watch game of thrones. It's like Whoa thank God. We're not there anymore. Totally totally totally but you know again. The media is doom and gloom so it makes you almost think that the world is going to hell when in fact there's a lot of things that are going right and and so again it's how we use these tools was ultimately they will determine our fate. I do believe though that now. It's more up to us than it's ever been. I think we're the chief agents of evolution solution now so evolution now has mind attached to it so we'd better use our minds wisely and use these tools for the common good. I think yeah no one hundred percent in which brings me to what I think is one of your favorite subjects to getting deeper into the future and I know you and I are both fans this idea the singularity for anyone one watching who's not familiar with that term okay so the singularity. There's a lot written and said about this idea. it's actually originally a physics term so it's a term that's. Information Technology futurists borrow from physics and originally the meaning is what happens when you go through a black hole and apparently the laws of physics kind of collapse when you go through that black hole so you can't really you can't really know what what happens when you go through it and so it's it's it's a metaphor that's been borrowed to describe a moment when the packs of information technology coalescing artificial intelligence the biotechnology revolution volusia reprogramming our biology and the nanotechnology revolution which turns like matter into a programmable medium everything the level of the atom becomes manipulable and so essentially these three overlapping revolutions are predicted to lead us towards a moment that after which is impossible for us to predict what happens next week because when we EH radically extend our cognitive capacities with digital tools infinitely more advanced digital tools even than what we have today or when we create a non biological mind and which is coming soon. I mean there's the blue brain. Project is spending over a billion dollars to create a digital sentence and the whole point is that this mind wouldn't be bound by the physical limitations that we have. We're fifty six K modem. You know we're we're. We're at one point. Oh imagine like a nine point zero mind on the silicon on that can upgrade itself so the whole point is trying to imagine the new sublime mind spaces that will emerge is like like trying to explain to a chimp the nuances of Shakespearean sonnet. It's just no matter how bright the chimp is. He can't get the nuances of of language and so that's where it gets excited because I think the singularity open the the the metaphor it just it opens us to the possibility of imagining the NFL imagining the almost impossible to imagine and so it lends itself to wonderful speculation. I think a lot of speculation for me. I get very very excited by you know Ray Kurzweil abundance all of that stuff. I can't get enough whenever I read or hear talk with people about in like. Oh so scary and I know that at one point you said you know what if what if that consciousness is actually more empathetic. It's like I had never heard that perspective before because everyone thinks about it. It's like the machines are coming. That's it. We're going to get totally. So what do you think about that. I mean and I thought that was such. Does that tie into your do you have spiritual beliefs. I mean not traditional ones. I grew up in a secular Jewish household but my mom is an artist and a poem so I think our religion was art. Art Is transcendent you know and I defy transcendence As when the sum of the parts adds up to more than the parts you know you put you put materials together in a certain way and what results exceeds seeds those materials and music and art and languages so transcendent and so that's that's my version of spirituality but to answer your question you know we've always been scared of change disruption when when writing was invented. I've read that socrates used to being opposed to it because he says if we write things down. We won't have to remember anything and so our brains will rot so there's been you know. The establishment of the time is afraid eight of these new disruptive tools because they shake up the status quo and I think it's the same fear that people had about video games. Oh you are GONNA make us. All you know violent or they're gonNA atrophy trophy our brains when in fact it's found out you know video games. Engage your problem solving skills engage your strategy skills and your brain and all these amazing ways you know. I don't know if you've heard of the book. Reality is broken. It's all about the power of game mechanics to help save the world. I'm going to read it and so I think we'll be surprised by how we have the possibility awesome ability of using these tools in wonderful ways and how if we do create a non biological mind it's going to have everything that's wonderful but humans exponentially multiplied you know and there's a great idea. Kevin Kelly than I I always was a big inspiration. He co-founded wired magazine and just imagine for a second how impoverished we'd be if if we didn't invent oil painting technology in time for Van Gogh's genius to unfurl through it or if we didn't invent musical annotation or the instrument both technologies analogies in time for Beethoven's genius to kind of emerge through that so if we rob ourselves creating these new tools we'd be robbing ourselves of the next Beethoven the next Mozart the next Van Gogh who are going to use these tools to build things. We can't even imagine yes and that's what's really exciting what I'm curious. Is there a particular sector whether it's non attack biotech anything else or a particular thing that you're very excited to see come to life. That's maybe on the cusp now yeah. I'm really excited about the OCULUS rift and the kind of virtual reality revolution that we're seeing with that you know especially and platforms like kickstarter people can come up with cool ideas. He is and the crowd itself can fund it all of a sudden new possibilities emerge but we've always wanted to inhabit that mind space that virtual space. I mean already when we watch movies are mind is in the film. When we're engaging with the Internet I mean we're interfacing with a space that isn't space is willing Gibson us to say and and I think that with the Oculus we're finally going to be surrounded fully by that virtual space and it's GonNa be good definitely change online dating at the very least but but no I just imagined new modalities of communication that will be very exciting to explore art to probably God absolutely tanking transcendental art therapeutic virtual reality therapy. I think is going to become a big thing to get even a little Kooky. I don't know if you're familiar with maps so the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies is the nonprofit that's trying to use plant based psycho. Psychotropic medicines listens have been used for thousands of years by all kinds of societies and bring them into the psychotherapy realm and so imagine combining oculus rift virtual reality with. I like the way that they're giving. PTSD patients and put them in this like new realm and then it's like better living through chemistry mixed with electronic mediation. I think we could really that's amazing or it could be a kind of almost divine engineering or electronic spiritually so fascinating so so I know you've got a lot going on personally to brain games. which is a huge hit show ya? What else are you personally. What are you working on. What's happening for you so oh yea brain games has been wonderful because it's giving me a wonderful television platform you know. I used to be a current TV for many years but then I had some time where I wasn't and and so it's nice to have that platform. It's one of their most successful series ever. We were nominated for an emmy and it's nice to be involved in something that I think is making neuroscience accessible to mainstream audiences insist and then shots aw is much passion project my philosophical Espresso shots which speak deeply I think to my own existential essential obsessions angst. You know it's a a woody. Allen famously used to say. I don't want to achieve mortality through my work. I want to achieve achieve it. Bhai not dying because he has this whole thing about death in the morbid human can the mobility of the human condition when seen in its naked form and I echo his sentiments but a shots of is sort of the next best thing intil weekend sort of Nano engineer immortality and transcend our human limitations artistic transcendence is all I got and and making those videos allows me temporarily to arrest the passing of time and to be moved moved to the point of tears hopefully and hopefully others and to really not just not just not just arrest time but but it turn allies and immortalize the passing at the moment to take these moments of cognitive ecstasy and take a snapshot of them to parentheses them to hang them on the wall and God. I mean for me. That's just that's just it's the closest thing to stabilising happiness that that can that can be you know my mom used to publish all these poetry books in English and Spanish in Venezuela and I think those poems were that for her and so these videos are that for me. You're absolutely genius. Add it and I cannot wait to see an new incoming up. Do you want to tell everybody about yes. So there's one about nonconformity then I'm very excited about and a lot of the inspiration for shots evolve because these are totally unscripted but the inspiration comes from like falling in love with an idea or quote that is something I wanna say like I want my lips to vibrate with those with those ideas were words become worlds as they say and this one was a nietzsche quote that says and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music which is wonderful Scottsdale. Yes yeah totally and I was like just just that idea. You know about the genius that sometimes gets misjudged you know because we can't see it and we were like. Oh so the dancing oh they're crazy 'cause we can't hear the music and so I just thought it's one of those lines that I just want to say and then from there went on a whole rant about finding purpose and and individuality and the tension between individuality and conformity and I'm very excited about it awesome so jason this was incredible as you know on TV. We always like to help people turn this incredible insight and inspiration the action so we've got a challenge for you guys today and I am so thrilled about this one Jason. It's inspired by a quote that you love us us. This quote is by Albert Camus. It says life should be lived to the point of tears and of course he's speaking to just living by one's passion answering I answering the call living by one truth until until you're moved to tears yes and so so we want to take that we want to take this idea of being moved to tears. I want to know from you. What do you love so much whether it's a painting a piece of Art. It's a member of your family. It's something thing that you're working on. That really moves you to tears. What do you love that much. Tell us all about it in the comments below now as always the best conversations happen after the episode over Marie Forleo Dot Com so go there and leave a comment now. Did you like this video if so subscribe to our channel and of course share this with all all of your friends they will really thank you for it and if you want even more great resources to create a business in life that you love some personal insights for me that I only talk about an email get over to Marie FORLEO DOT COM and sign up for email updates. Stay on your game and keep going for your dreams because the world needs that special gift that only you have thank you so much for we're watching and I'll catch you next time on TV. Thank you so much for listening in if you're into it subscribe. 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Clearview AIs facial recognition technology

The Current

24:34 min | 7 months ago

Clearview AIs facial recognition technology

"This is a CBC podcast. Hi I'm Matt Galloway. This is a podcast from the January January. Twenty first edition of the current. The manhunt here in New York City after a bomb scare shutdown major subway station during the morning commute soon after the NYPD releasing surveillance images these nineteen men went on social media to have sexual conversations with Kit and today cyber age we're dealing with a new breed of criminal that's an ad for the company. clearview a clear view uses online images to help police track down criminals. If you've never heard of this company will you're not alone loan. The company has worked hard to keep a low corporate profile. Which is ironic because profiles are a big part of clearview business? Kashmira hill is a technology reporter for the New York Times. You took a deep dive into clear views work Kashmir good morning. Good Morning Matt. What exactly it is clear view a I do so clear? View is a company company that has scraped the web of three billion photos from public websites like facebook then Mo instagram educational educational sites employment sites in order to create a big public based database where now have the facial recognition out if it can run on all those photos you can take a photo of somebody and it will bring back all of the photos that scrape that person along with links to the sites. Just be clear. Were these pictures. Come when you say. It's scrape the photos from those sites. These are these are photos that people would have posted up on their social media accounts. Or what have you yeah. I mean it's maybe photo hugh posted posted on a public social media account. Were you know photos that people have posted of you Like for example I saw tax professional site Among the results results that were coming in on the APP and so the yeah. It's it's just photos up on the web and this is something people have long feared would happen because we have. How put so many photos of ourselves out there? But companies that were capable of building a tool like this like Google have said you know this is the one technology they held back because it could be used in such a bad way But now now it's been done. Not Taboo has been broken and clear clear view. I has been working with Over six hundred law enforcement agencies in the US and Canada and other places for the last year and no one had any idea Except for the company itself in the police until this article came out this weekend which rattled a lot of people and was shared. All around the world tell me a little bit just briefly about the company itself self. Who started this thing up so with founded by technologist named one tenth that who is from Australia and Richard Schwartz Schwarts. Who is kind of a longtime New Yorker who worked for mayor? Rudolph Giuliani in The nineteen nineties that he was the editorial page editor of The New York Daily News. The two one is thirty. One Richard is sixty one. They met at a event at the Manhattan Institute which is a conservative think tank in New York and discovered they had a lot in common And decide to build this facial recognition APP. Together it's funded by Peter Thiel among other investors and Peter thiel course's famous for backing facebook and pollen. Tear the surveillance company and I mean I was as I was looking into this this company. I was Amazed by how quickly grew you know the two the two founders met in twenty sixteen and they only really really got a product up and running in twenty eighteen Until over the course of a year they have spread like wildfire through law enforcement. As you did the research. What did you think when you when you first not only figured out what clear view is doing but also who was buying the product who had access to this database of three billion photos photos well actually mentioned it was hard to do my research on the company? Initially when I I was kicked off the company by a couple of foia research or who. You thought turn up in public records requests. When I went to the company's website it was closed to the public? It was only access accessible by law enforcement. It had an address that was just just a couple of blocks away from the New York Times office and when I walked over there I discovered that the building didn't exist When I checked Lincoln and they had a a fake employee later turned out to be a fake name that was being used by one of the founders and they wouldn't return any of my calls or emails and and I was reaching out to a lot of people found affiliated with the company and so I ended up going instead to the users of the tool so I started reaching out to police departments that I had determined we're using IT and a couple of cases I was able to talk to detectives used APP and I was skeptical at that point Because of how little I could find on the company company and I was like maybe this is just snake oil or fake that the police officers said it was incredible that had helped themselves dozens of cases dead in cases that they had abandoned they went back and ran the suspects photos through the APP. And we're able to identify them and they just said it. You know worked so much better than the government provided provided databases. They have been using before. That only has mugshots and driver's license photos. And when you're you have a photo that's just ahead on photo of the person. In this case you know it could be a partial photo The person be wearing glasses a hat and I saw that for myself when the company eventually started talking talking to me. I didn't interview with their founder and he ran the APP on me and it pulled up photos of me that I didn't know we're online voter photos of you that you'd never seen before. So does I'd never seen before. And then I covered my face. I covered my mouth and my nose with my hand and he took another photo. And it's still pulled up seven photos with me including one from ten years earlier and I was just shocked at how well face recognition algorithm work. You mentioned police forces in the United States are using Nisa also say that some Canadian police forces are using this. Who who's using it here in Canada A condition of the interview with author. Through using candidates I cannot say where they are who they are But it is being used to solve many cases Murder Murder Cases Identity fraud in cases of child exploitation cases. I mean it's just you any any case where you have a face somebody and you don't know who that is. You can run it to the APP. And according to the Company at works up to seventy four seventy five percent of the time three out of four searches. It's going to find a match. What concerns you the most about but how this technology could be used in a future and who might use this technology So I have a lot of concerns I mean I think that face recognition to solve crimes is a great tool and I definitely want police to be able to solve these crimes. One thing that worries me was just how the technology works that it was kind of a little known the company Most of the departments had done no vetting them and they're sending sensitive information you know Police suspects victims to the company company. Servers and to the company has fast database of everyone that the police department is interested in and in my case they actually abuse that power they while they we're talking to me. It turned out that anytime I talked to a police officer I would ask them to run my photo to see what the results were and the police officers would then get a call from the company saying. Are you talking to the media so they were actually tracking. Who was talking to me while they weren't talking to me So I found that a bit disturbing Turkey. Nothing I have the power they could certainly abuse in terms of manipulating results are kind of knowing. WHO's in trouble? And then as I was talking to Um investor behind the company and two officers. They all predicted that this is an APP that will be in public hands Either clear clear view that or another companies copycat copycat version of it and that will all have the power within the next five years in early investor. An early investor told you that There's never going to be privacy. Insure this might lead to some sort of dystopia in future. But you can't ban it right. That's that's terrifying. To other people I would think it was a quote where my jaw kind of dropped does he was saying it But but I I you know I've always kind of thought that face recognition maybe ubiquitous. Just because of you know the advance in technology analogy and all the photos of ourselves but if that were truly the reality it would it would end to you know a public entity. If you're in a restaurant having a sensitive conversation conversation about family secrets are work secrets a stranger next. You could snap your photo and know who you are and understand that conversation in context next and I mean that's that's that's I don't know that's terrifying to me. Maybe because I'm a reporter and I'm always afraid of getting scooped but you can imagine no stalkers using this tool I just real really militias use cases. I mean it would be nice to go to a cocktail party and never have to worry about remembering anyone's name but I think that the the harms may outweigh the benefits Kashmir to talk to you about this. Thank you thank you for having me on Kashmir Kashmir hill technology reporter for the New York Times. She mentioned that there are police services here in Canada that are using this technology of the wooden. Say who we did reach out to a number of police forces in Canada to see which might be using clearview a is products the Vancouver. Police say they've never used tested facial recognition from clearview A. I have no no intention of doing so. The Toronto Police Service as it does use facial recognition but not through clearview the Antero provincial. Police say they have used facial recognition technology. Oh Gee for various types of investigations. But they wouldn't specify which product they use similarily the RCMP would not comment on which techniques it uses but the RCMP. Did Say A. This is a quotation. We continue to monitor new and evolving technology and quote privacy. Advocates may be concerned according to my next guest though this this could be a useful tool in catching criminals. Michael Aren't field is a criminologist and former police officer. Michael Good morning to you. Good morning what do you make of the services that clearview a is offering. Well I think as you mentioned Facial recognition has to some extent already been used for years by law enforcement and intelligence agencies. This obviously based on the results that are at least anecdotally been provided about and are in the article about cold cases being solved literally literally in seconds Obviously presents a new I think expediency to two matches and the way to sort of circumvent attempts attempts to obscure the face or your shortcomings in the quality of the image. So this I think is a more sophisticated tool. We've heard Which obviously will be appealing to to law enforcement where quite frankly and and a great deal of investigations when using any biometric data whether it be a face or fingerprints the prince or or Or Gate like the movement of of how somebody ambulance over or even DNA for that matter. There's always a second step verification Asian process required. So you want the first step to be as accurate as possible so I think you should dissuade listener's concerns that I mean if a match gets made that someone is instantly locked locked up and there's no due process like a fingerprint need. This needs to be corroborated independently by by someone as part of sort of a peer review process for any further actions. Undertake take tell me more about facial. Recognition mentioned. There are a lot of police forces in this country that are using it already. How important is it in in catching criminals? Well I mean it seems really important. I mean the first sort of break through In terms of in Canada at least in terms of understanding that automated systems for identifying people as as people become as individuals and defenders sort of become more a tenant is was licensed scanning which of course allowed for we both stationary and mobile scanning vehicles on the road where the license was scandal within you know half a second you had the registered owner information insurance information the nation and these are not plates. That are being queried. Because they've done anything suspicious. That's being done at random. So you know privacy advocates said. Well you know this is somewhat arbitrary swearing just going fishing and you know the court said you have no reasonable expectation of privacy publicly already. Know that You're on a road operating a vehicle. You you have a lesson degree of privacy Certainly in a vehicle than say versus your home then those a well established so we have the groundwork laid played for the fact that this is efficient that this is minimally invasive and that Whatever the optics are that the return is utilitarian in that The the upsides faraway the downsides and are in the public interest. Quite frankly the optics here though are that there are three billion pictures that have have been scooped up from various social media sites. They're stored in a database that people can access. How is that? Not a massive invasion of privacy. Well I think we're AH deluding ourselves. If we think that we have any privacy whatsoever I mean people throw around the world. This is big brother And if you know anything about William Fiction or Dystopia sci-fi by the dystopia and features one where technocracy and private corporations Sort of the government and controlling day to day affairs and regulating behavior later. And we're already there. So I mean three billion images for use by police in apprehending offenders and cold case files versus I'm sure far far more more than that already in The troves of alphabet income and the various media conglomerates that control the technologies we use day to day and we know our trafficking and we know are selling it to advertise. Your point. Isn't that privacy is already gone. The horses they barn decisely. And this point I I mean people get up in arms when they hear that. There's a practical law enforcement application to it and and invoke wrongly terms like big brother and And I'm not sure why because because I mean again. There has been no ruckus about what's been going on Already with these companies so to think that now we can actually use this for a productive purpose for public safety next year now. Why now wise alarming standard now? What about what ends up? Not In the hands of the police but it ends up as Kashmira saying maybe in the hands of a stalker maybe in the hands of somebody who is spying on somebody else or he's listening to other people's conversations isn't that A A an alarm bell that should be ringing loudly loudly as we see the spread of this technology. So that is the one Concerned I do have. And which is why quite frankly. These types of covert relationships action ships with partner with the law enforcement outwardly. Appear in you know sort of surreptitious cloak and dagger in weird in reality. That's the type of Containment containment I think you want my worst case. Scenario with getting in the hands of for instance A lobbying group or political consulting group who who could For instance obtain information from Polling stations at demonstrations and begin engaging of what we now refer to it as Docs in in which is identifying publicly releasing the name image and corresponding financial Family Information of those people on the Internet which quite frankly as we know places these people in extreme danger and that is the foremost misuse of this system. Michael we'll leave it there. It's good to hear from you thank you. Thanks for having the article. Armfield is a criminologist former police officer. For years men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel terrorized is. I'm Justin Lee this season on uncover. We see this happening. How can you not see this? They suspected serial killer and and they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time village was targeted. You don't start killing at sixty six six. Start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenties uncover the village available. Now wherever your podcast. Brennan Brendan Fail Is Director of the privacy technology and surveillance project with the Canadian Civil Liberties Association. She's been listening to these conversations and is with me in our studio. CEO IN TORONTO. Good Morning Good Morning. How comfortable are you with what clearview seems to be doing? I'm profoundly uncomfortable with what crazy uncomfortable. And why is is that the case. Well this is exactly the sort of scenario that we have been concerned about for a long time and that people have been then saying no no. It's okay big tech is being careful. We're moving forward cautiously on this look. Technology companies are even calling on our regulators others to think about this before we implement these technologies and then you've got a hotshot startup who comes in with a fake it till you make it attitude and puts this technology out there in the wild technology that police services and we heard from Michael on this say works. We heard he's him saying that that you can solve solve crimes cold cases in in seconds and the police services that are using this technology according to Kashmir hills reporting are delighted with it. Shouldn't if you took it society and the benefits to society. Shouldn't that be considered as as a plus it should absolutely be considered but it needs to be weighed the benefits of what we get from. This technology needs to be weighed against what we lose We had the reporter at the beginning of the story. Identifying what you lose if this technology gets out into the wild is the possibility of any anonymity in public ever. That's something that we need to think about Michael's point is that that all use that phrase again. That horses left left the barn. We live in a society. It doesn't matter whether you're in a big city or a small community where there are cameras everywhere things happen and not just social media in terms of what you're uploading But that your movements are marked your movements are recorded. Have we already given up a reasonable expectation of privacy. We have not our courts agree agree that we have not. It's actually not true that our courts have said. We have no reasonable expectation of privacy in public Because we do it's limited it's less But it exists and one reason that we're holding firm on that line is because we have a charter of rights and freedoms that says that. If you're human you deserve service certain threshold of riots complicit are we in this. The APP works in part by scooping up these photos off the Internet off social media sites publicly available photos that we presumably have uploaded so how complicit we in this I think rather than thinking of it as complicity. I think of it as being duped. We have been told for a long time. Hey if you share this. It's convenient if you share this. It's fun if you share this. It's okay because all of our platforms farms have terms of service. That won't let anybody do anything bad with your photos here. You've got an APP. That is incomplete defiance of all those terms of service scooping up the images that you put up to share with your friends and your family and your loved ones handing them over to law enforcement and rendering you subject to search millions of times a day potentially across across the number of services that are using we asked facebook about clearview Ai. And the statement that facebook sent reads in part scraping facebook information or adding adding it to a directory or prohibited by our policies. We are reviewing the claims about this company and will take appropriate action if we find that they are violating our rules. What do you make of that statement? Well the short version of that is they have a responsibility to do something to protect their customers. And if they don't that that speaks volumes about their corporate attitude toward profit over people. What does that responsibility whether it's facebook or youtube prevent Mo to ensure that the photos that you might upload stay day on that site and don't end up elsewhere they have actually entered into a contract with individuals? It's a take it or leave it contract that we don't have any choice but to accept their their terms which places the onus on them to respect it and to safeguard our privacy. The other argument that people might make is people. Make this around privacy issues all the time. If you've done nothing wrong. What are you worried about if the police run your photo and your innocent you're not gonNA come up if you are somebody who has done something And they run your photo. That photo comes up. Then you're going to get caught because you're guilty. What do you make of that? Are you the argument. That if you have nothing to hide You have nothing nothing to worry about is say Honestly it's if you have nothing to hide. What do you have to lose and what we have to lose? Is Our privacy oversea our ability to be anonymous our ability to function as a dignified human without being watched without being listened to without being tracked. And it's it's different when law enforcement does those things because they've got a great deal of power over us up to and including taking away our liberty. This is is an attitude. I think that a lot of people might share. We went out and spoke with some students at the University of Toronto for their thoughts on this technology. Heavily into what he said. There's a lot of cybercrime happening doing now. And there's a lot of threats especially to younger children with predators such. I believe that this will help that. I have an international student visa so engaging the broadcast anywhere like it could be walked or something. Yes I am okay with the idea of being monitor just because I don't think I do have anything to hide and also I think government officials. Some people who are taking advantage of the sort of technology are not using it to spy on every single individual but only individuals that sort of pose a threat to national safety. Not An invasion of privacy like. I don't feel comfortable knowing that people know what my face looks like. They can just pick me out of a crowd and know my name and my history and my back on. So that's creepy is always use a creepy or is it more than that. It's creepy and it's dangerous. It's a threat to democracy. It's a threat to the fundamental freedoms that we value in it'd democracy. Do you think that students concerned that students concern about attending protests and being picked up Because you know they were protesters. Is that something. That's a legitimate concern. That's an extremely legitimate concern. We know in other countries in the world that and potentially in Canada the protesters are very much monitored and we also know that if people are afraid to stand up in public and protests and to speak out for what they believe in that governments cannot be properly held to account so it's a fundamental risk if people are afraid to attend a protest and yet the cameras are everywhere. The photos have been uploaded yet. Now they're being scraped but there there where are we at. Let's just finally in this in this conversation around privacy in this country well when we talk about the cameras being out there right now we have laws governing who gets to access this data and what it gets to be used for. They're not always followed. There's problems with enforcement but we have rules that underlie this what happens with this kind of AI. I technology in this APP is that those rules are being tossed out the window the way the data is collected is probably against Canadian law. And then we've got law enforcement agencies using it without confirming that there that the use of the tool is compliant with Canadian law. That's a big problem. Brenda mcphail thank. You Failed Director of the privacy technology and surveillance project checked with Canadian Civil Liberties Association. We did ask clearview. A I for comment on this. We didn't hear back. We love to hear from you is privacy long-gone subject of concern or something that you are worried about. Let us know at C._B._C.. Dot C._A. Slash the current or on twitter at the current C._D._C.. For More C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.

Canada facebook officer Michael Good New York Times reporter United States Canadian Civil Liberties Assoc clearview Toronto Toronto Police Service Matt Galloway Google New York City Kashmira hill
Clockwise 343: Allow Me to Interpret Gibberish

Clockwise

29:59 min | 4 months ago

Clockwise 343: Allow Me to Interpret Gibberish

"It's time for episode. Three hundred forty three of the clockwise podcast from relay. Fm recorded Wednesday April twenty. Second Two thousand twenty clockwise for people or topics thirty minutes. Welcome back clockwise the tech podcast. Where this day may be the earth's but this half hour is our. I'm Dan Morgan. And I'm joined as always across the Internet by my good friend and Co Host Minister Micha Sergeant. How're you doing today? Mike? I'm honestly a little nervous because I feel like you just challenged the Earth. And that's a really. Don't want to pick up commander Earth Command me. Oh no I'm not part of this earth okay. All right this is of course the tech show where we have two wonderful guest joining us this week to my left. A first timer here clockwise. But we're delighted to have him. Here is the head of podcasts. At DC Thompson Media Christopher. Hi Chris how're you doing? Hello I'm very well I'm in. My Garden is warm at least warm for Scotland but it is gorgeous. I'm jealous I'm super jealous. It's very earth day appropriate. I must say I chew really. I love the birds aren't background. That's awesome is definitely really piped in. It's not like I've done rogue Amoeba Lou back thing guidance and Birdsong under what I'm saying to my left is editor at Perot. Today as well as a well-known podcasts are on the incomparable and writer of the excellent. So what who cares newsletter and all around thought leader at least in my book. It's lease a Schnauzer. Mike I'm squealing a level that only dogs can hear that such a great introduction. Thank you. You're very welcome. Well known that Mike Does the past introductions. I only fire to match on that all right. I'M GONNA kick things out today with the first topic. I'm curious given our current world situation. Is there a tech concept or a kind of technology software hardware? Whatever that you have changed opinions on based on the way we live. Now maybe something that you pooh-poohed but now you find actually really useful or something that you thought might be essential but that actually turned out to be kind of inconsequential for you. Chris Blanch leaves off so know exactly what you say. I did the other day suddenly realize that I had been trying to make time to go and talk to my colleagues across the business or by a particular thing trying to train them in something. I could never get them to you. Know put time aside for me. It was struck down the priority list. I stress me. I realize the other day. Hey since I'm at home and I can't see my colleagues enemy. Why do I just record as a screen cast in on Youtube saying the Lincoln can watch it that way and Ethel? Who why did I know when I was in the office? That was literally nothing stopping me. Recording the screen cast from my desk in the office and sending them the link base hadn't occurred to me so yes so my bold new technology. That I'm championing is screen casts. I think that for the most part. It's gotTA BE GAMING I. I'm not a big Gamer of talked before about how it's not on my phone I don't keep that stuff around usually but in in these trying times I found that it's not necessarily that. It's useful it's that it's a it's sort of how bread is a conveyance method for delicious materials Gay substrate exactly. It's a conveyance method to to spend time with people and so in that way gaming of all sorts. Be It House party and things like that Are The way that I've I've enjoyed spending time with friends. What about you Lisa? Don't be distracted by the bird. Saw The GLIB answer is I don't really need to use Google maps right now but the longer answer is a. Google sheets has become invaluable because it's collaborative is shared. What I what I've actually found. Is that most of the tools I use for. Collaboration are getting much more of a workout. Now from I use apple notes APP to keep running grocery lists and I share that out with my husband and we can both edited and that's getting a lot of work now. Since Grocery shopping now takes a level planning ahead and coordination. It didn't before we can no longer just pop out to the store. Get something and I've been using Google sheets to coordinate resources with volunteer groups and to try to coordinate standing play date standing on facetime play dates with with friends so that we're not always texting people in the middle of their work day when they're also distracted and so they're just schedule can refer to. Google sheets has also been great for you know again tracking groceries in terms of things like that so I have covered collaboration as beat for my job and then kind of rob out because I get to see it in action and talk to people all the time I've really come on board with Digital collaborative tools as a way to keep things running smoothly when you are dealing with geographic dispersal and resource management and asynchronous communication and needing to move information places. That's good I for me. I'M GONNA break my question slightly and say there's a technology. I see promise in that before I might have pooh-poohed a bit more and that is both the augmented reality virtual reality because I was listening to a new story this morning talking about kids in classes and getting frustrated with kids interacting with their peers on zoom and stuff like that limitations thereof and it really made me. Think about how you know. Vr has seemed like something very aimed at say gaming primary focus and well. That's still might be true. I'm interested to see if people come out of this. With new applications in terms of the sort of those collaborative and virtual meeting spaces me being more useful in case we find ourselves in situations like this more often. Seems like there's a lot of potential promise there and it makes me feel like maybe apple is being very prescient in focusing on so much even if we haven't seen the applications yet but those are all great thoughts around. Let's move onto our second topic which comes from Chris. So my question is what age is too young to get kids into take and this was brought into my two D. it literally. Today I took delivery of my daughter's second ipod touch. She is four and a half And she had her first ipod touch and she was too for Christmas on her. Just after a second birthday I got it because I thought Frank Lenzi our camera and I was like well. If I'M GONNA GET CAMERA GONNA earn ipod. Because it's a cabinet does a whole bunch of other stuff and I I'm fully. I don't really subscribe to this pooh-poohing of screen time the evils of screen time. The kids pain because she is so creative whether she's so much more than that to get so much of a and and I I just wonder if I mean we're a bunch of techies right. We we like technology. So maybe there's GonNa be a just a a writing table everything's fine but what he just too young. So I love this question because I come. My sort of approach is from the fascination of both technology and psychology in how those can sometimes overlap and I will go forth and say that I am not a a father to an humans and I am not terrifying. I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist or psychotherapist but I know one in Canada and Georgia. Dow is kind of my sort of Go-to person when it comes to stuff like this and so I have to go and quote her and sort of I guess not quote but paraphrase just to say that. I think that I think that like you said it to open up. A world of creativity in possibility is fantastic and I also think that the tech literacy is very important going forward and the earlier you can along with teaching your kids more than one language that you teach them. The coding language is fantastic Because it's a skill that's going to be required in the future. Should we survive it and I think that in those cases it's very good? I think that the pooh-poohing comes from a very reasonable place. And it's a very specific thing and that is when screen. Time and technology are used to distract a child or keep a child. Keep child's attention Because I think that that's the consideration to make but once you've got that figured out. I don't know that there is an age. That's too young except an infant who might swallow an iphone. I did like the fact that my daughter's first technology she ever used an apple. Watch from my arms. She would touch my APP Warsaw. Okay so with the caveat I have a nine year old So I'm coming at this from somebody who's been wrestling with this topic since I had a baby and a smartphone more or less the same and the in America there's a guideline the American Pediatric Association says Generally Speaking Police. Don't stick your kid in front of a giant blinking screen before there too. There's neurological stuff that might happen. My thinking on the guidelines is they come from people who do the stuff for living who research it's a. It's a deliberative body. That said I will cop to show my daughter sign language videos on an iphone what I was like desperate to distract her or desperate to to just take five minutes like in a Leonard. A restaurant or something before she was to and What was really positive about that is we would do sign language videos together and she learned to sign before she could talk. Didn't as a result like that was a great. A great use of technology will be honest and so and so I think my approach to technologies guidelines are helpful as a starting point but what it comes down to is. You have to know your kids temperament and you have to ask yourself. What are you hoping they'll get out of the technology and so the way that we generally approach it with our daughter now is What do we need her to understand about technology? For example I just started letting her use. Facebook MESSENGER for kids to Talk with chat with friends of hers Remotely and when we installed it we let her know. You have no reasonable expectation of privacy on this application not from us because we reserve the right to read everything you send to your friends and Vice Versa. And you have to understand. Facebook reads everything you said. And they're going to use that information to try to sell you things later and they're going to use that information to learn things about you so you need to decide whether that's okay And these are the types of conversations. We have with her about everything from from APPs on her tablets to how long how long she can use them. So I don't think age is ever going to be a really useful guideline except perhaps in a really fundamental biological sense such as please don't show your six mumbles psychedelic videos. But I do think that you know the question you should be asking is how will this held is helper? Hinder my kid based on the personality traits. I know they have. And what am I hoping? They'll get out of this technology and my hoping they can express creativity. Am I hoping that they can do self directed learning M. I. Hoping they can communicate with friends and my hoping I'm hoping they pick a skill and just go from there. I mean so I'll say I'm I'm not a parent. I'm not a professional in these matters. But I think Lisa you know. You've hit the nail on the head here with this idea that there's no one-size-fits-all approach right with the exception of you know. I think the very very young children look technology is going to be a part of their lives right. I mean unless the whole world knew post-apocalyptic state which is possible. Anything can happen But Christmas is is daughter. Using Apple. Watch well he was holding earned. It's like yeah I mean you can't avoid it right like unless you're going to decide you want to move off to commune. Which Hey. That's your call but I in terms of the way that society is going to progress. You can't really avoid it so I think you know it's not so much necessarily just about a flat data all right before this time Tony so some technology and after this time it's fine. Just go wild. It's like us some judgment and try to figure out as Lisa was saying like what is. How do you want to manage that with your kid? Like how what do you want them to know? How do you want to educate? How do you want them to be informed about it because I think none of us would argue that the holy? Depriving Your Technologies. A good approach. Either we we've all probably learned tons of stuff on tech and I know when I was a teenager. You know the World Wide Web was just sort of starting out at that point. I learned a lot from that. Why can I learned a lot about technology and coding? And all this stuff and so it was incredibly valuable. And so I think there's like with everything there's some moderation involved both in terms of the amount and in terms of how it's being used and I think that there's really you know kids are GonNA use technology. And if they don't find out about from you kinda learn about on the street I Chris. Any last thoughts up this one. I think that I'm when I bought the thing from my door. It was the was no statistics pointing of new. I want her to do this or does he get this? I'm I've slept more abstract notions of Length figure out how they can make stuff work the best for them and I haven't for neither my wife or I have for a second said to my door. We're going to manage your screen time. We're going to say this much too much. She's just herself and jumps between painting on the windows and throwing things on the floor. I'm running back in the scooter and hitting the I posted. A part of her plea is great. I'm really proud of the fact that she hasn't needed any of management or guidance. For All right. That's two topics down. Two topics left to go. Which of course means it's halftime here clockwise and this week's episode is brought to you by our good friends at Leonard whether you're working on a personal project or managing your Enterprise Infrastructure Leonard has the pricing sport and scale. You need to take your project to the next level if eleven data centers worldwide including their newest Data Center. 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Twenty twenty dollars credit our thanks to winnowed for their support of this show and all of relay. Fm ALL RIGHT. That is halftime sorted. Mica what do you got for us? so there was a new report in the verge talking about how? Google is releasing an update for its Google Assistant. That will let you sort of change the sensitivity for smart devices. So you can make it so that yes more often it. Hey Boo boo and response to it. I am curious. Do you have smart assistance in your home and if you do how often are they accidentally triggered and also? How do you respond when they are triggered? Lisa we'll start with you. Does Siri Count Yet. Making sure okay so we I had this happened yesterday which I think speaks to an interesting gap in What I think of as a fluid computing experience and let me. Just tell the story super quickly so have a giant plant in our kitchen Huge Viney Ivy thing and I was installing who was installing with those command. Hooks are basically plastic Little sticky backs and you have to hold them in place on the wall for thirty seconds so that the so that the He's if can stick and I held up my wrist with my watch and I said he series set a timer for thirty seconds and right as my watch responded with okay setting a timer for thirty seconds. Syria on my computer. I can't do that. Would you like me to set? I can't do this on this computer would you like me to set a reminder for you instead and Repeated itself a few times and I thought to Myself Ito. This almost makes no sense. Why CAN'T SYRIA BE SMART enough to identify the source of the query as opposed to just being triggered by voice Why doesn't the concept of me as Lisa flow across my phone? My tablet my computer my watch and be contractually dependent The way I responded was basically just stood there for thirty seconds. Well Siri yelled at me. And then I hopped off the ladder and and the gated the reminder but in terms of responding it was basically no now except I couldn't say no because then lose the title of my so again it just basically triggered a bigger question in my mind about how could apple improve series where Syria has a notion of me as a discrete set of data that interacts with it and how chooses to respond is dependant on the source of the clearing because certainly it should have been able to recognize that when I'm speaking at my watch I'm much closer to my watch intriguing triggering series as compared to my laptop which was somehow across the rim and still no way they got this. Yeah that's a great point. My House has anybody who knows me is replete with smart speakers and I have. It's really one of the problems right. It's the problem where you're watching TV. And all of a sudden the echo is like oh I think I heard my name allow me to interpret gibberish for the next thirty seconds until you something that's not useful to you or standing over the smart speaker furiously yelling at it because it was not listening to me at all like to the point where we are convinced that my upstairs neighbors believed that a my wife and I have a recalcitrant daughter named Alexa. We constantly so I think the answer is this could get a lot better and honestly on the Apple Front I have to home pods sitting here and I have had the wake word turned off for those almost since day one because I found that they got so many misfires that they were just not useful and kind of his point. I do use. Siri on my watch and my phone and it would always try to hand out to the home pod home bobby. Like I can't do that. Sorry then nothing would happen. So yeah I think I get accidental things like these all the time and I really wish that all of these companies would make them much better at sussing out. Am I actually being talked to right now? And should I respond to that? Because there's a lot of room for improvement. What about you Chris? Not Huge. I don't have any Amazon devices a toll or Google devices and that's partly a previously. Well it's partly a I live in the apple ecosystem thing but there's not enough to pull me out of that to get those other devices because I am physically worried purposes. You only serve area in my life where I am tinfoil hat on is around or listening devices in my home and so but we do have a whole bunch of apple device including homepod. We don't really get many misfires but the creepiest ones. We get to him. Deals for the homepod gets this in particular is when Siri mistakenly. Here's herself or himself being triggered but hasn't had a question and to then just goes You're having a conversation going to women's voice currently and just everything and then somebody goes. What is that? I'm not. I'm not big fun. Not Not a big fun I am with you that one. That little Is Very strange. I've got all of the smart assistance in my home and they go off at various times. I'm quite sensitive to saying the actual words. And for some reason it's made me sensitive sensitive seemingly to saying things that are similar to the actual words but I'm currently sheltering in place with my partner and he routinely triggers the different ones and so I've taken to just trying to sort of rewind live live and think about what it was that he said that could possibly be the trigger that caused it to go off because it's fascinating to me. What does 'cause it? And what doesn't but anytime that happens I just shop nevermind from across the room just took to both try hosting several podcasts. With someone named Lex and then I think I'll pass on that. Thank you all for your answers on that topic. Let's go to our final topic which comes from Lisa. This is just. I have serious fellow because my all of my computer's allegedly don't have sufficient processor power to provide virtual backgrounds in Microsoft teams or or zoom. Which are the two meeting platforms? I use the most. I have been admiring everybody else's from galaxies to the Golden Gate Bridge to the Weird Open. Space Office plan that a colleague of mine always puts up in the background as if to to make us think that he's really not working at home when I want to know is are you seeing a lot of virtual backgrounds in these zoom or teams or other video conferencing calls you have what are the best background you've seen and flex a little about the backgrounds you have. Wow that's so one I will say I don't I? Don't use zoom a lot for meeting stuff in my line of work but I do use it. A lot for some podcast. I will say the Best I've seen. I've seen the bridge of the enterprise Which is a solid one enterprise d? Just so we're clear and I I saw online somewhere. Somebody did a video background of themselves where it was them walking in on themselves while they're on a meeting and I thought that was very funny and clever in a little disturbing enough slightly disturbing. Just open the door then the oh no and then they leave again. That's like that would be so weird most of the season backgrounds or actually when I'm playing in dnd campaigns over other comparable often with Mike and we have some good. We have some Fellow players there who really I think Try every week to bring their best background games including like we were fighting a vineyard this past week and they'll put up vineyards behind them or haunted mansions or castles are taverns and I love how good that is my background. Unfortunately of my office is so cluttered. I really I need a green screen. But they're all sold out so the virtual background in that makes me very sad one of these days one of these days Chris. What about you so the other day as you can hear your joining me for my garden just now the other day? I I took a Zoom Cola here and soon so nice background. That's my clock two examples of Similar to yours Dan. I saw somebody had just recorded themselves. Sort of like looking attentive. I mean just sat back and they just sold it off into the kitchen. So there's this thing of angels looking at the corner but the other ones there's genuine. Dvd's sweet was a teacher had Before he had left his school classroom he taken a picture of the classroom and he used that when he was doing virtual with students. Just sort of that sort of sense of continuity in space and I thought that was a genuinely brilliant. Use of zoom background check. That's awesome so I would say the ones that I've seen I. It is Kinda fun that over at twit. We took some photos of our studio different studio spaces and made those available to folks so if they want to be doing their own personal Video conferencing calls from the twit studios. They can since we obviously have the studios closed down right now But personally my favorite one. When I found out you can do video in the background right before the shelter in place orders took went into effect. I was at some tide pools here in northern California and we came across a baby harbor seal that was stranded And it was far far away from its mom. It was underweight. We called Marine Mammal Rescue. Came out and said wow. This is a little early for a harbor seal to even be born So clearly there is something going on here and they ended up rescuing getting to safety but from a distance took some video and so I had this this video of this adorable most innocent looking creature I've ever seen in my life. Baby Harbor Seal in the background of my zoom chat Just sort of playing on a loop. It was just a short little video so that has to be my flex for sure because Sunday is doing well and fine in Marine Mammal. Rescue location lease around us out with yours. I have a colleague who has been just posting fantastic pictures of the galaxy behind in every time we talk so it's like talking to somebody in space and I love that and like I said I have another colleague who keeps Loading Different Open Office space backgrounds and I can't figure out if it's really clever psychology where he's like if I look like I'm all business will remember that we're working or or if there's some other motive behind that I don't quite discern I will say I have serious. Virtual SERIOUS VIRTUAL BACKGROUND SUMMER. Right now so. I have really enjoyed hearing about everybody else's unfortunately when people with me they'll see whatever posters we have up in the kitchen although I may have to readjust chair so that they can behold my giant evil plan or if oh my Gosh. This thing is huge. It's grown like half foot while we've been in quarantine. I think it's getting ready to eat us or you can see. My daughter's aren't working. Interoffice downstairs nothing. Extraordinary just everyday life all right. That is four topics. We have just enough time for a bonus topic and this week our episode is brought to you by are very good friends rogue Amoeba and their APP. Sound source sounds sources a sound control utility so good it should be built into Mac. Os whether you're listening to podcasts. Are blessing music or streaming video sound sources for everyone who uses audio on their Mac? I've been a sound source listener four years and I find that it is incredibly useful in terms of being able to control. What audio on. My computer is at what level? So if you are on a lot of zoom conferences these days and maybe then you have to turn up the volume or something and you switch to some music. And all of a sudden the music blasting really loud you can set individual volume levels for different apps you can choose which devices audio gets sent to. So it goes to your speakers or headphones. You can decide that on that basis. There's per APP equalizers. It's great there is basically every single thing you ever need to do with audio all in his handy little control panel. Everybody should check it out so for better sound quality volume levels you can add an equaliser even apply advanced audio units to any audio on your. Mac you can have fast access to your device. You have to dig around in system preferences. And if you've got a display Puerto Rico device that doesn't offer volume adjustment sound source can help it gives them a volume slider and the volume keys feature makes your keyboard controlled to all of this is available right for your menu bar with sound source visit. Mac AUDIO DOT com slash clockwise to check it out. You can download the free trial and save twenty percent with cope coupon code clockwise. That's MAC audio dot com slash clockwise and coupon code clockwise. Thanks to the Audio Wizards Rogue Amoeba for sponsoring the show. All right. This week's bonus question very very quickly. we've all been second side. What if you've been watching or binging or reading Chris? I just want happy happy stuff. So I'd go into the happy issue and ask my wife and I finally pursued her daughter to sleep in evening and sit down slumped in front of the television with our meal we watch parks and REC gutter better. You cannot beat boxing. Great Mike Yeah. I'm introducing my partner to all of the Star Trek Franchise and so we are currently watching star Trek Voyager. So I'm reading a book called a People's history of Scotland actually By Christopher yes by Kris van very well. I've only been to your beautiful country once and it was humbling to realize how little I knew about the history and so I've been trying to catch up on that. I am reading my way through a lot of the Nebula and Hugo award nominees this year. Because I've been trying to read a lot more and on TV. I've been binging the show gargoyles which is a cartoon. I watch when I was a teenager and it holds up really good all right. We have reached the end of the show. All that remains is to think are fantastic guests this week Christopher thin. Thank you so much being here. Pleasure and Lisa Schnauzer. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you I love doing this podcast and Mica. We shall finish celebrating Earth Day but we shall be back next week and we remind everybody listening out there until then watch what you say and keep watching the clock by everybody.

Chris Blanch Lisa Schnauzer apple Google Mike Yeah Scotland Dan Morgan Leonard Siri Mica partner Mac Facebook Leno Minister Micha Sergeant commander writer
2 Blokes Chatting Leadership & AI | Chris Ducker & Kevin Kruse

The LEADx Show

37:52 min | 1 year ago

2 Blokes Chatting Leadership & AI | Chris Ducker & Kevin Kruse

"Would you like to accelerate your career and reach your full potential in just minutes a day? Welcome to the lead ex yo with New York Times bestselling author and eat five hundred entrepreneur Kevin cruise. Hey, everyone Kevin crews here. Welcome back to the lead X leadership show. And we've got another special episode for you. It's another instance of two blokes chatting about leadership and also we chat about a and also we talk about personal branding. And every time. I make this joke that it's two blokes chatting about it makes me think of between two ferns. I guess that would make me Galvin Akkas, but not quite as funny anyway as part of my media tour for my new book, great leaders have no rules. I hope you've already grabbed a copy. And if you grabbed it and love it. I hope you'll leave an honest review on Amazon, but as part of my tour, I chatted with the famous Chris Ducker, Chris is the number one guy in the planet at this point. When it comes to being a successful solo entrepreneur when you're building off your brand his book is the rise of the euchre per nor. He has an annual you preneurs summit. He's the host of the U per podcast. And it's really amazing what he's done. I mean, basically Eaton's own dog food as they say to just build a huge, thriving multimedia company around this one idea and being really niche focused on that audience, but he talks. To me about some of the ideas in the book, and we talk about my thoughts on how long it's gonna take for AI robots to actually replace our managers, specifically, the bad managers, and so it's just a different format. I hope you enjoy it. We're trying to mix things up. Keep it interesting. And before we start the official conversation again, please visit lead x dot ORG. There's a free trial, and you will check out hundreds of book summaries podcast webinar archives, micro video lessons. And of course, you get to chat with coach Amanda were adding new capabilities every single week you can pick a goal now. And she'll check in with you be your accountability buddy each week for twelve week cycle. She'll offer you up built in action plans. It's like incredible value. If you want to get better if you want to fulfil, your potential, that's lead x dot org. Hey, it's Chris. Hey quick question for you. What are you doing November nine through to the eleventh this year two thousand nineteen if you're available? I want you to consider coming to our annual conference which takes place in London England every single November. It's cold the UPN summit, and it is the UK's number one online entrepreneurship conference. But don't let the fact that we're using the words you k in their spoil it for you. In fact, actually, we've now had people from over forty countries around the world attend the event since we started it in two thousand and seventeen this year, you're going to get the opportunity to learn from people like tall, the Hermann. How Elrod JJ virgin soobee Zimmerman Phil Jones, Anna host of Allah incredible entrepreneurs and extremely successful business owners, and we would love to be able to come and spend some time at us. Learn lots mosque. Gene, plenty network like your life depended on it and go away from the event ready to take on the world more than ever before the first two years sold out mumps before the conference even took place. And we doubt that twenty nineteen is going to be any different to head over to you Puna summit dot com right now to secure ticket. That's you Puna summit dot com. See you in London. This is you preneurs FM. The official podcast of a Uber. Preneurs mastermind community a place where no entrepreneur it's left behind in their pursuit of building a business. They can be proud of. And now, here's your host serial entrepreneur in bestselling author. Chris Docker is douger. Well, Hello there. Everybody and welcome to episode number three hundred thirty seven of you FM. I'm your host, Chris DACA. And you my good friend there in the right place. If you are an entrepreneur the wants to build a powerful future-proof business based around your personality, your experience, and the people that you won't to serve. Yes. Welcome to the world of the UPS. All we go such a good conversation today with my good friend, Kevin cruise back on the show. I think for his third stint with us over the course of three hundred or so episodes, we like to bring him back every hundred also episodes fantastic conversation. But Kevin on what we really need to do as leaders now going forward into these very busy very changing world. However, before we get crack in just a quick reminder that upn are FM is brought to you by the UPS mastermind community the premier online community for entrepreneurs. Wanting to build a profitable sustainable business based around the experience, and those they want to serve community members get exclusive access to accelerate training library, which includes everything you'll need to know to build market and monetize a successful business and couple that together with a monthly mastermind Kohl's discounted tickets to a live events and access to all enthusiastic supportive member. Only forums, and you've got everything you need to succeed. If you're serious of that building the business of you as I call it and in the most rewarding profitable way possible. Then you must join us. So be sure to head over to you pronounce dot com today for more info so onto that conversation with Kevin now, he says and get this this. This is like serious stuff hit we need to just look at this for a minute and just hit the pause button. Here. He says the great Lee. Leaders have no rules. Actually, that's the title of his new book, and a brand new business model that he's building around that book as well. Which is really really exciting and very interesting from UPN ecosystem perspective as well. But imagine having no rules. Why should we have the rules as leaders a very interesting conversation? We go deep on this, particularly when it comes to the robots coming to wipeout us humans. I and all that stuff as well. Very insightful stuff. Enjoy enjoy. Enjoy is myself and Kevin Kevin welcome back to the show on. Hey, it's great to be here. Love talking with you. Chris. What's great to have you back on the show? I mean, you're busy. Boy. I mean, it seems like how many books have you Britain allied, seventeen sunhat almost this'll be the ninth. Wow. I mean, that's impressive, man. I mean, I know how much goes in to each. Book I've written which is to. I think that the the idea of writing nine is crazy, but and this is the reason why one of them is showing. Yes, new book is Al you guys. I call them white to dig into this in all transparency. I have locked read the book yet on soda can folded digging deep. Great leaders have no rules is title of the book. And I love this. I see myself as a leader more so than any other. So let's hype of labeled as I do many people listen to this podcast also do as well. And what I love about. This is that this kicks off a brand new business for you. And this is a thing that you've done several times. Now, you kind of Bryan new book, stop a new business. Start a new business. Rodney new book it's a thing for Kevin that a little bit yet. Well, Chris I think they go hand in hand. And like you I mean any one who's at any? Business success? You'll get people come up and say, oh, you know. What's your advice? I wanna start a company someday at cetera, and people are often surprised, I always say the first thing you need to do whether you want to be a great solo preneurs, and and and consultant or speaker or build a big business. It doesn't matter is right. A book write a book. And I I've done it. I mean, I've had a I've started or co founded in sold a five different companies. Now, I've started in failed at some of the other companies. I've started early on in the big difference. Marketing wise was the ones that failed. I didn't start out by writing a book and ones that I've had the biggest success. I've always started by doing a book. And it's part of it is is I think it's easier to brand a person than a company, and if you plan to build a big company that can be a little bit of a problem down the road. Because then, you know, if if you named your business after yourself, and you sell the business, you've just sold your name as an example. But in most cases in especially in this day and age to cut through the clutter to gear to build trust people want to know who is behind the business. Now, what are you as a person all about they want to relate to a person, not not a cold brand? So, you know, the the root word of authority is author my friend, Chris. And so I always say just establish yourself as a thirty get your your best brand out there in build a business around it. Do you think that maybe having the book in place as well axes may be some as some sort of a road map so to speak like something? Follow while you'll developing and building business as well. Yeah. That's right. I think now I I don't like writing books. I always say I like having written. I don't really like the writing part. But once it's done a single, really. Starting process. I generally, I do believe actually I I'll be speaking with a with a with a loan Arolla with a fiction author not so long ago, and she was telling me that she loves the writing process, but heights, the marketing from thing what it is actually I came to my own conclusions on this is that creative people like fiction rises, don't get marketing as well. And they're full don't enjoy an preferred to enjoy the mole creatives onto the woke which is writing the developing story, whereas us Panetta's business people, we get the mock saying angle, totally. We just hiked to in the work. We draw the just having done a mock, it, would you agree. I would agree and I loved on this issue a little bit because I think what both the creative person the fiction writer, and then the entrepreneur marketers what we have in common is. Sort of the power of storytelling. And so a fiction writer knows about building stories in in her books. She needs to embrace that storytelling part of marketing in you. And I've talked about this earlier on a few occasions if we're doing our job building our brands mean one of the first things we've gotta do is kind of think about like, what is our zero to hero story. You know, what's what's that story journey? And then as we start to. Evolve with our customers, it's not so much that we're the hero anymore. But we're now the guide were the Yoda teaching the Luke Skywalker of the world, you know, how to how to take down a death star. So I think to that's where the commonality all blooms having you come back on the show because he's not dropping Star Wars referencing incident excited. You you can come back. But just don't turn it into a like a quiz show because I'm gonna fail miserably. I'll I'll be bad at the details on meet look we had Tom Ziglar on the show a few weeks back. He didn't mention Star Wars. Once you think he's going to be invited. It. I'm just joking. So Thome, you will welcome. Anytime. You want talking let's break down the book a little bit. Then. I mean, if if it's okay, we kind of wrap up the gel so back and see how you're going gonna develop the business around this big thing here for me as a person who employees hundreds and hundreds of people as you. Well know, you say you go to close Europen dole policy. This is something that's been around for a long time in culprit speak break that down because that familiar is a big one. Yeah. That's right. I it's so, you know, the book is about leadership, but broadly, speaking it all starts with self leadership. You know, how do we be more productive in be more engaged in what we do? And it's we lead our families same thing and at work. It's how do we get productive and also engage? Our our team members, you know, keep them happy and retained in that open door policy. I mean, first of all it's it's from a long time ago when people actually had offices indoors do now, it's cubes or work. From wherever you are. But metaphorically, you know, that dreaded got a minute, you know, knock on your door. Now, it's a tap on your shoulder at your workstation, or it's the buzz of your phone as someone through slack. A saying, hey, you got a minute in the problem is two-fold verse. The obvious problem is as the leader as the manager. You never get any work done. It's very hard to get into the flow get into the zone and do deep work win. You've got this constant barrage of people coming through your quote, unquote, open door, but the other problem is Marshall Goldsmith executive coach he's done some research on this great. He says if someone's coming through your door all the time if someone stops through once a day unplanned unannounced, what's going on like did you hire the wrong person? Did you not train them? Well, did you give them the tools? They need more. Is there even like a problem with psychological safety where they're afraid to make a decision they're afraid to implement that solution because they don't want to. You know yelled at or messed up or penalized in some way, so better than an always open door policy. You don't want to throw everything out. But it's more like close your door in open your calendar. You know, maybe it's office hours. So the last couple of hours of every day is the time for the pop in meetings. Or maybe it's every Friday and Monday, whatever it is everybody can do what's right for their organization or their work style. But replace that, you know, open door policy with something that is more scheduled and consistent in push that decision making push that risk-taking back down on your team members. Interesting. Okay. So obviously somebody who has voted employee's as you to many, many people will do the listening in as well that that sounds like a law sense right in regards says, okay, we're gonna get together every Tuesday and Friday at ten AM, and you know, any other time unless it's super Winona touch by kind of thing that's will. Get on with. Let's push it through up, blah. But let me ask you this question. How does that work that in in the world of the small phone bright because we can say, well, I'm going to be speaking to Chris ten AM on Friday, but it's Wednesday in I could just send him a quick message. Black hole something like how does that work? Well, we certainly train people how to treat us. So. When would I respond to that slack or that text message from Chris out of the blue, and I responded one minute an answer his question. I've just trained Chris. Hey, that's a great way to get a hold of caffeine and get my my problem solve it. Again. I think the idea is not that. Smartphones are bad. I've got a smartphone. I use it. But I'm using it with intent, and it goes back to this broader idea of leadership you want to live with intent you want to lead with intent intentionally so instead of being like Pavlov's dog where every time that phone buzzes were region for looking and half the time, it's a waste of time. And now we've just interrupted our our flow our zone instead put that thing on airplane mode. Don't let slack interrupt you until you're ready to process instead of checking your phone, you're going to process your phone like some of us. You know, maybe it's every hour. Others three times a day. You know, eat teach their own. Okay. I love this. Okay. So. Also in the book, you talk about being likable, but not liked which I think is a very interesting concept because here I am always talking about the fact that you've got to be loved. Love you, not just like you. And that you've got to become somebody's favorite. But you also talk about why even if you don't like somebody, particularly you gotta love pretty much everyone break that down as well. Those two things you know, this. This was my greatest failure in my twenties as a as a young entrepreneur without any like official leadership training or anything like that. I mean, it was all street smarts, which kept me pretty dumb for about a decade when it came to the people stuff, and you know, the there's this legendary former coach John wooden basketball coach who used to every year, he's a college coach at new players every year. And he is I lecture would be I am not going to treat. You all the same. I am gonna play favorites. And I'm not even gonna like you all the same. But I will love you all the same. And it's talking about love at this higher level. You know, the Greeks called it like a GOP a sort of a love for fellow man. And. Woman meal of it's it's a higher love in. So even if there's someone on your team that kind of irks you or their styles different or you just don't like them that much you can still love them and care about them on a higher level. And I think that's where it all starts leadership coming from from carrying. And I mean, this sounds crazy, but think about your own kids, and you know, I've got three teenagers. There are days when I don't really feel like I like one of them because Louis, they're active. I want to get out of the I don't want to have that. I don't want to be in the same room with them. I want them to go out with their friends. I'm not really liking them. I still love them just as much as I always have in in terms of that likable. You know, it's that need to be like if we need to be liked than all of a sudden, it slows down those tough decisions prevents us from giving that tough feedback and most people they got enough friends. They don't need their boss to be their friend. They need their boss to be a leader of to make them better. Help them with their career into into get that team to get that comes. Growing in the right direction. Love this. Okay. This is good. So okay. Dommage good, sir. I didn't know Arbor the green. Pretty good. Surprise, you go you did. So okay. Let's let's let's kind of hope around a little bit. So your company is lead. Ax. You focus on developing the leaders of the next generation as you call it. So kind of my question is. How how how there's like the next generation of leaders differentiate will how how all different than the ones we've got right now, the ones are sort of yesteryear. What do you see what are you folks signal when? Yeah. Next generation leaders. Well, there there's been some big research studies and the way we lead the way we influenced people people haven't changed that much of the principles are the same. But the way we learn about it is is evolving or wanna learn about it. So we're entering the age of millennial managers. Malate millennials are twenty five to thirty five ish. First time managers average age is around thirty that cohort these first time managers, they don't want to sit in a room of power points. And learn about leadership like that they want personalized they want to be coached. They wanted to be on demand. So this is going to sound a little crazy, Chris. But like I was semi retired from last eight years, and then I took all of my money. I'd read about Ilan. Musk doing. This is firebase. I took all my money dumped it into lead ex just over two years ago, and we built the world's first executive coach with IBM Watson. So it's the first AI coach, and we released it just a late last year in it's a new way for leaders to you know, new managers to learn about leadership and get get coaching from a from a robot. This is interesting. Okay. So. It's huge. You know, it's it's it's here already. It's coming for us. Whether we like it. All right. I'm aware just having a conversation with my dole twos finishing up a loss year at university right now in London, and she was saying that she feels like a lot of what she's being told as a business communications, mocking Maija. A lot of what she's being told is fundamentally gonna be row ball pallets maybe three four five six years from now where does that leave her? And I was like, well, you know, you can always come work for me. But. Joke. It might also. Well. But but no. But what I'm getting is like how is that going to affect? It's great and everything, and I agree with you that, you know, the millennial crowd they want everything on demand on everything. Now, you know, an access to everything not owning anything old out. You know that sold stuff like house, I can affect things in the future in regards to the whole side of Chris, I think people worry about the robots are coming for jobs. What's going to happen? I do we've we've been about this for like forty years. This is becoming a reality. Now. What's what's going to happen? I the robots are going to take our bosses jobs. So in five years sixty seven percent of all managers will be replaced by Dan curious. We are going to love our new robot boss more than we love our current boss. Why? Because in white sixty seven percent, that's the percentage of of people who are not in. Gauged at work the leaders who know how to engage in motivates our team members that thirty three percent, roughly, they'll keep their jobs all those other managers are ineffective and a robot can do a better job. And here's why we all have those bosses the ones who don't engage us who they don't look up from their laptop when they're talking to us. They don't make eye contact. They don't know the names of our children. They're boring. They're dumb. They're mean, they're unfair. They have unconscious bias all of these things the robot not always the robot impersonal and going to be sort of algorithm driven. But we as humans all ways personalise humanize our objects. We give names to our cars soldiers in the Middle East cry when their robot robots in the field. Get blown up we are going to humanize a robot bosses in a robot boss, they're going to everything about us. Chris they're going to know your personality your strength every experience ever had. They're going to remember. Your career aspirations? They're gonna everyday be matching looking for opportunities for you to join a committee go join a networking group at cetera. They're gonna remember that your kid's birthday is this weekend. And on your way out. Hey, happy birthday to your daughter. It's a big one she's turning twenty one your robot boss will be better than your human, boss. See this some of that. I would agree. Some of it is good. There's no doubt about that. But some of it is not so good. Some of it is downright scary. To me. Maybe I'm mean you, and I are roughly the same night used to insult you by saying oh. Although I did. But I I just I do I feel like I mean, I think we should bright look technology in general should be embraced. I genuinely truly do Alani oddly believe across the bold. But they're also things like this, for example. I look back at some of my men tools, and I've had two or three really old mentors in my life that I feel. Yeah. Okay. Sure. I might have to learn, you know, a lot of wall. They told me Vira rope all type of setup. But I wouldn't have had those relationships to pull back home to recall to talk about with my family with my friends and clients and things like that. Is this not maybe something that will become a little sterile painting? What I would say first of all we this will occur, and we won't know it's happening because right now, the average manager might let's just call it a managed ten people call that's their span of control, but we already know that's increasing because of budget cuts so most managers now that used to manage six people on average. Now, it's ten soon will be fifteen then twenty then thirty and as span of control gets bigger, they can't they don't have the time to meet with Chris once a week the way, you know, she used to then it's every two weeks through four weeks. So it will be a long time before we even know that our robot bosses are boss was gonna stink. Oh, wow. Now, my one on one meeting is every two weeks. Now, it's three weeks. Finally jar says, hey, inbetween, you're meeting once a month with your human boss, just go check in with you know, robo boss just to just to have fun check in and get some feedback. That's how it's going to start to happen. You'll still have your human boss, but was less connection. Now, Chris I would like to think that you, and I we would make great mentors we'd make great bosses in. We will keep our roles because of that and were high performers. We know how to get to our bosses and build that relationship. So I think a lot of people will be just fine. I think it's replacing the ineffective bosses and. Occurred for the best spin on this, basically, it's inevitable, man. Just say. Basically, it's just basically inevitable. But the the robot designers are going to do everything they can to make it feel like human experience again. Hey, I can look at our face. And know if we're stressed out or not they can analyze our Email patterns and know, if we're increasing our stress levels, your current boss can't do that. So now you pick just like you're picking your game avatar, you know, what this week. I want my boss to look like. Winston Churchill and next week. I want my boss still looked like Mick Jagger, and the persona we can pick in that persona will relate to our specific personality. So we might feel like we've got a better connection with the AI agent than we do a lot of humans in our life. Okay. Good. Let's let's talk this discussion. I feel like we can go back and forth all ages on it. But what the most important thing actually that will take away from this. I'd say, I I think you clearly said that like people like mentos, and then, you know, the a lot of the UP knows how to do this one on one coaching rights thing that ultimately copy replaced to zone degree because people will always wanna do business with the people with that sort of type of thing. But I think also to get to that and goal of working landing new coaching clients, for example, we can use I and we already all with things on. Souls for Facebook advertising and stuff like that. Like a lot of that stuff is already an already supporting us in marketing efforts, particularly so it ain't a bad thing. I think we just gotta we we've like you say, we won't even realize until it's kind of a pulse. And then it's like, oh, yeah. Cool that that kind of works in Chris let me just leave with this last thought to underscore that is I would encourage all the U preneurs out there to be thinking about okay? If the way this crazy, Kevin cruise guy says what part of what I offer cannot be replaced and part of that's going to be processed and talent. But also your brand people. Look if let's say we wanna learn about time management. There's a thousand time management coaches out there. Right. I'm going to pick the one who I want to work with because of who they are. There's always only one of you. So you just have to be unique position and tell that story, and then the robots in the other human coaches won't be able to beat you guys. I being told that about. This for years on this show. The his somebody else telling you exactly how it is. You can listen to me. Okay. You also talk about and this is a very interesting one as well. And this necessarily kind of relate to everyone shooting, I eight on this go too deep, but you talk about revealing kind of like everything about a company and everything about what you're doing even people salaries, which I think for a lot of peel the is kind of the most personal thing that rive it work. Explain you thought process on that little bit sure will again Christine old school wisdom unite. Remember? Well, you know, you're raised like there's certain things you don't talk about especially salary is just not not what is done and companies used to you know, that was like a low rule in other rule. You just don't talk about that. The reality is now this day and age both with the technology power. And the generation that both of our daughters are now in they don't care as much about privacy. And they're more open about these things. So. Anyone can already kind of go onto salary dot com or pay scale or these other services in see what going rates are and often. If you're in a big company, what the, you know software programmer level two is making in my own company. And as we see was like gender pay disparities. Secrecy is not a very good thing in terms of of equality. So if you're not willing to share your salary information, you just need to challenge yourself. Well, why is that have I maybe I haven't thought through why one person is making exit other person's making why win you've thought through your system. Then, you know, you're you're on solid ground. And I think this is where a lot of the the Silicon Valley companies do very well they have a formula. They'll say, you know, we we start at seventy percent of going rate as measured by this service. And we're going to up at two thousand dollars or pounds or euros or whatever it is on these cry. Eighteen and I think having that kind of system takes all that vias out and gets everybody on the on the same page. But even as a you preneurs small business you like right now we in my own company. We messed up something really bad about three days ago. We introduced a bug that broke coach Amanda for a lot of people. Now, I could hide that I could make an excuse not to talk about it. We are currently craft need a fall on my sword. Apology saying, hey, this stuff is hard. But that's not skews. It's you know, we've this is what we're gonna do to fix it. We're going to make amends and hopefully people that will drive trust trust in me trust in the brand. And that hey, we're going to know exactly what's going on. And there will be ups and downs. But we're going to be in this journey for the long haul of then. Okay. Great. All right. So I guess I'm probably my my kind of final deep dive here. As we kind of wrap up here is is leadership. And you talk about this in the book. I know leadership is not a choice. Many people think that it is something that you choose to do on, you know, a career an avenue that you choose to walk down. But you're saying that it's not a choice pa- site. Why is that? Yeah. Yeah. What was really wrong, many decades goes when they when people thought leadership was about thirty in power, and then, you know, ten twenty years ago that evolved and said, hey, you know, you don't need power thirty to be a leader. It's about influence. You can choose to be a leader. You choose to make a difference. But I say that's correct leadership is influence, and if that's true than we are all leading all of the time because we're always influencing psychologists, call it social contagion, and it's funny how behavioral psychology works. If you and I don't know each other. And we're in the the cafeteria line the Buffy line, and I grabbed the fruit Cup instead of the French fries. You're a little more likely to grab the fruit Cup. They've shown a study. If you buy something on an airplane, the people sitting in your row, even if they don't know you they're not related. They're more likely to buy something as well. So there's all we IMP we influence people all of the time our emotions are contagious. And so if you think about that leadership is not a choice, we are leading all the time. It's critical that you lead with intent. You know, you're leading your kids down one path or another am I gonna make it home for dinner tonight to have dinner with the family? Yes, or no now, you can't do it all the time. But just no one choice leaves in one direction. Another choice leads another am I gonna have date night with the spouse this week or my going to blow it off and stay in the office. One choice leads in one direction and take it for me. Another choice leads you slightly down another direction at work the same thing. Do you walk the halls with a smile making eye contact asking people how their weekend was or do you put your head down? Hope nobody stops you. So you can race back to the next meeting. We are leading all of the time. I agree with that on a percent. I love the fact that you say, you know, when you do this this isn't going to happen. And so I mean, I being saying it for years that when you say yes to something. You instantly the very same time say notice something else bingo. Yeah. I grew down to present. What a great chat as always. It's a pleasure to have you on the show for you guys shooting in if you wanna find a little bit more about the book you can head over. It's no rules lead leadership dot com. You can such a great leaders have no rules on Amazon bookstores and all that fun stuff as well. Kevin we will links to that, by the way and everything else that we've gone through hearings. Luna lead ex and everything over on the show notes you've dot com. Four slash three three seven. Kevin. Thank you brother for comment on. It's always a pleasure, Chris. It was a lot of fun. And hey may the force be with you with you month broad view, you guys. Tune in go swing light sabers and think of me and Kevin today, I'll be package again next week until then take right calf by now if you enjoy today show, I'd love for you to check out the UPS Ma. Mastermind community. It's the go to resource everyone wanting to build a profitable future proof business based around their experience, and those that they won't to serve. So whether you're just starting out, or if you've been working hard on your personal brand and building your online platform for a while, the Panama's Dimond community can help you take everything you've been doing to the next level. There's lots of training live moss to mind, Kohl's and thriving community forums where you can get the feedback advice and more energy and encouragement than you'll know what to do with the mastermind community is the perfect place for anyone wanting to learn how to build market and monetize that personal brand. For more info going to get started on your new Uganda journey head over to you know, calm today. I'll see you on the inside friends if you'd like this episode of the lead X leadership podcast, please take a minute leave a rating on itunes or Stitcher. Her readings are invaluable for attracting new listeners, and I like to convert those listeners into leaders because you know, I'm on a mission to spark one hundred million leaders in the next ten years. And if you want to become the boss, everyone fights to work for and nobody wants to leave checkout. The lead x platform with coach Amanda at lead x dot org. And if you have ten or more managers who could use some binge worthy training, send me an Email at info at lead x dot org. Elliott x dot ORG. And we'll talk about getting set up with a totally free pilot for those managers. See if they like it if they don't that's fine. We go away part is friends. But if they love it, you've just found yourself a new resource for them. Remember leadership is influence your always leading. How are you? Gonna lead today.

Chris Kevin Kevin Amanda UPN London England official Amazon New York Times Kohl Chris Docker Chris DACA UP Kevin crews AI executive Phil Jones UK Galvin Akkas Kevin cruise
#179 Intel Gamer Days Are Upon Us

Latest In Tech News

37:35 min | 1 year ago

#179 Intel Gamer Days Are Upon Us

"Intel gamer days are upon us and more coming up on today's episode of release intact news the gadget here you're just in time for the latest episode of the world's only three and one show on tech gadgets n._b._c. news that's right. This is released intact news. My name is taylor the american few nuhere <unk> subscribe right now so that you don't miss out on latest we do unto daily around here and we would hate for you to miss out in by the way share this episode with a friend. If you get anything out of it free and easy to do <hes> and you can show it however you will but the our feature story that will be taking a look at is a intel gamer days deals on some gaming laptops. Let's just say some of the manufacturers are razor acer acer so you wanna be taking a look into that will beginning to that in just a moment. We'll be taking a look at well why fi six it barely hear but wi fi seven is already on the way whilst be taking a look at u._s._b. Four devices are clear to roll out next year followed by while some apple watch news including self tightening skin texture authentication and l._e._d. Progress bar kinda interesting news and here we were thinking that we might not be getting a lot out of the september event coming in like a week doc for apple. There'll be maybe hearing something. New also be taking a look at intel unveiled frontera. The world's fastest academic supercomputer and gimme news will be taking a look at while a newest cyberpunk twenty seventy seven video first-person. It looks like what this game is shaping up to be in definitely an interesting demo at that will be getting into that and finally we'll be taking a look at well. The value of wild classic is more than just the style of but before we get to that well. Let's take a look back on today. In tech history all right today september third twenty nineteen on this day in nineteen ninety five the online auction site ebay is launched as auction web by pierre dr the first item sold a broken laser pointer wasn't actually intended to sell but rather to test the new site itself started as a hobby surprise at the item actually sold for fourteen dollars and eighty three cents contacted via to make sure he knew the laser. Bro pointer was broken to which was replied. I'm a collector of broken laser pointers from that first fourteen dollars essentially fifteen dollars. He's now worth billions of dollars. Also on this day in history a nineteen eighty two steve wozniak u._s. festival begins. You see co founder. Steve wozniak had taken a leave of absence from apple following a plane crash in nineteen eighty. One during this period was started the the u._s. Festival an outdoor concert technology expo held in san bernardino in southern california. The first festival was held on labor day weekend in nineteen eighty two featuring large air conditioned tents to host the u._s. Festival technology exposition and a state of the art stage for the musical acts temperatures peaked at over a hundred degrees grease on all three days at a festival. I don't think san bernardino is a great place to have it. The lineup for opening day included the b fifty two talking heads english beat and headliners enters the police the festival returned in nineteen eighty three but in total wound up ending losing more than twenty million dollars in didn't happen much bob beyond beyond that and i think steve decide to go back to apple computer shortly thereafter. I tell you history well. What would where would we be without it with that out of the way let's head on over to today's feeder story all right today's feature stories on the screen right. Now those of you interested in any of the articles that we cover on today's show head on over to tech news gadget dot net and well right now. It's the most magical time time of the year. It's intel game days. What does that mean exactly. Well deals today. Amazon has some excellent deals on gaming laptops many of which include free software not talking about excel here talking about gains in the good kind of software here first off. You'll notice a lot of software bundles for intel game. Today's don't give much in the way of details some of the computer systems below that will be taking look at include player unknowns battlegrounds and total war three kingdoms while others include the elite software bundle details of which are still shrouded in mystery. I upper looking at the razor blade stealth thirteen thirteen on sale at amazon for right around eleven hundred u._s. a lovely little laptop with an intel. I seven eighty five. I sixty five us c._p._u. G. m. x. One fifty sixteen gigs of ram two hundred and fifty six gigs of <unk> d a gorgeous f._m. H._d. thirteen inch display the excellent fifty is far from the most powerful g._p. In envy of g force line but the beauty of the stealth is that you can plug it into the razor core four x external g._p. You enclosure in these basically any modern g._p. You want it's the best of both worlds the portability of laptop with the gaming power of a desktop p. c. and something that razors always kind of been known for here next up. We'll be taking a look at the acer predator heels three hundred which is on sale at amazon right now for eight hundred thirty u._s. and the author here has been a fan of the predator line for many years just really nice. This one has a one hundred forty four hurts display intel. I seventy seven fifty h. G. force g._t. X ten sixty six gigs card six gigs of d._d._r. Eighty are forum and a two hundred and fifty six gigabyte envy m. e. s. s. d. all on sale on top of that. It looks like a futuristic fighter jet. Just just don't try throwing it around or you're gonna be out eight. Hundred thirty bucks also there is e del g. five fifteen on sale sale on amazon for well right around seven hundred u._s. with an intel. I five eighty three hundred eight c._p._u. M._d. for ten fifty p._i._d._p. View perfect blend of value and power. You won't have any trouble plane almost any game you want with it. It's priced just under seven hundred sound link to it as well. A win over idea pad l. three forty gaming laptop. <hes> pricing is right around six hundred dollars hiding hiding inside. This unassuming gaming laptop from lenovo is an intel core. I five ninety three hundred h nvidia geforce g._t. Sixteen fifty dp you eight gigs of ram speeches five hundred twelve gigs of n. b. M. e. s. s. d. No needs to know that you have a gaming laptop and when all was probably the most understated the gaming laptops taps on sale for intel gamer days at amazon right now. The price is also the m. s. I g. l. sixty three on sale for around seven hundred as well this one <hes> has an intel core. I seven eighty seven fifty eight. Nvidia g force g._t._s. sixteen fifty g._p._u. Eight gigs of ram in a two hundred fifty six gigabyte envy m. e. s. d. for storage as little obviously probably fill up quickly once you count for the windows installation so get a portable hard drive <hes> like the w._d. Four terabyte dads on sale as well but is your budget is like eleven hundred or less. This'll this'll fit you in nicely anywhere between eleven hundred and seven hundred so yeah intel gamer days and then the bundles that come along with it like we said player unknowns battlegrounds and tower three kingdoms authorizer elite software bundle the details of which remain shrouded routed in mystery. Do you know what they are. If you let us know down to count some of us are just dying here. What's in it but yeah. These are laptop. Laptops stops guys not desktops laptops impressive that they're actually gaining worthy but if you're looking for something that's within this price price range and you don't want the you know immovability of a desktop computer and you don't want to carry around monitors and everything these laptops will do quite well. So what do you think is there anything we missed in this lineup to let us know we are on twitter at tech news gadget otherwise obviously this is obviously linked to hygiene article and they probably have a bunch of other links towards two yet. Today is intel gamer dates deals to be had things to be bought games to be played. Would you wanna miss out and don't don't know don't know <hes> i upon any games that i need to finish up anyways. Those of you wondering this isn't my hi fulltime job. This is like a part time hobby that i do on the side. I mean considering my full. Time job takes most of my day and then i have have a family to take care of on top of that and on top of that <hes>. I have a side business that i've going on and then i have this. I don't even have much time to play video games at all. I i mean kind of squeeze in a little bit time here here and there and i don't know like i said i need to make clones so if you actually have some details on how to clone clone yourself but still retained memories in like i dunno absorb the knowledge of the clone that you may be great. Let me know on a providing email. Address can go from there. I'm just totally kidding but non series. Send it to me. Love it all right moving on to some more tech news. What wi fi six is barely hear but well. Wi fi seven. Just decided one a barrel right in steel show so those z. wandering wifi six is just now arriving in phones laptops and network equipment engineers already turning their attention to come next wi fi seven with speeds speeds as high as thirty gigabits per second the next generation of wi fi promises better streaming video longer range and fewer problems with traffic congestion the the change will come in a series of steps beginning with improvements to wi fi six that laid the groundwork for the expected arrival of wi fi seven in twenty twenty four according to who <hes> qualcomm vice president of <unk> -nology vk jones said i'm excited about delivering a gigabit everywhere in your house every nook doc in cranny. You'll be at the point where wireless is faster than wired interesting in a subsequent interview at qualcomm wifi. Dane august jones shared. There's some details on how wifi seven will work. He expects three phases of improvements over today's wi fi six which in technical circles wondering it's called eight oh two point eleven seven eight x saw the first expected improvements will give wi fi six more capacity with new airwaves at u._s. In european governments are likely to open up for radio transmission admission as soon as next year second update twice six in twenty twenty two should improve speeds especially for people uploading data like videos from phones or p._c.'s third third and perhaps the most interesting is a collection of why upgrades expected in twenty twenty four and still only known by his technical name of eighty two point eleven b actually actually actually quite interesting you see a lot of people are really ready to officially call the next version wi fi seven that includes the wi fi alliance consortium that comes up with the numbers and be soldiers wifi logo on products at passed its certification tests heck. It's programmed certify. Wi fi six products only begins later this year still you don't have to be a suicide to see the future coming last three wi fi engineering standards which was two point eleven n eleven a. c. and eleven eight x has been certified as wi fi four five and six respectively so eight or two point eleven be a strong candidate to receive the wifi vice seven label institute of electrical and electronic engineers which develops eight oh two point eleven standards the wi fi alliance later certifies is already at work on one eight. Oh two point eleven b e. If i e e working group proposed the thirty gigabyte speed in projected authorization requests for comparison a c net here of they've tested some things out to show that wi fi six is delivering a maximum of one point three gigs you imagine thirty i mean so you just you'd like looking at this going okay. If wi fi six is one point three at max and then wi fi seven thirty what the heck happened with the gap like then. Is it quite quite impressive so they go on to explain a little bit more about wi fi i six by seven for those of you who are interested in reading more but yeah why six barely out here wifi seventy anway. Which are you looking forward to most wi fi vice six or wi fi seven. Let me know in the comments. We'd love to have a further conversation about this knee. I'm excited. I love seeing technological advancements advanced. This is the main reason why why do the show and and wildlife to cover these kind of subjects. I don't like talking about just gadgets or talking about just gaining. I mean i mean what got me interested. The fact of look technology how it's changing in shifting and evolving over the years i mean we went from late. One hundred years ago or like fifty seven years ago these big huge manson computers took up like football fields and warehouses isn rooms and storage and required all of this stuff anything so little now this what i'm holding in the palm of my hand phone can <unk>. It's incredible just power technology. It's that's main reason why like sharing articles like these <unk>. Hopefully you're excited. I'm excited. Let's see what's next up. What's next up is u._s. Before devices yeah just when you're starting to get us to to u._s._b. Three when what there's different u._s. Beasts yes and the thing is if you can keep an eye on it. You'll buy a computer cuter and then you look at it and you'll look at the port you'll go. I know we're all does it look different and why can't i play. It's just a u._s._b. Port why can't i plug it in while it's because it's different it's different u._s._b. Ports sleep kind of have to keep that in mind now the u._s._b. F- has finalized the standard specifications occasions. They announced today that the organization has finalized technical specs for u._s. Before these facts will be making your way designers engineers and manufacturers shortly meaning that we can expect the first u._s._b. Four products hit shelves sometime in twenty twenty. Not a highlight of the new standard is it's dueling forty gigabytes per second speed matching watching thunderball threes transfer rate in doubling that of usb three point two's under bowl. You guys got something up your sleeve or you counted google crash and burn. I don't know we'll find out u._s. Before will use the same form factor as usb type c and will be backward compatible with usb three point two two point. Oh in thunderball three in other words you'll be able to use just about any existing usb type c device with a machine featuring a a u._s._b. Four bus the connection will be similar to usb three in that it will support both data and display protocols so expect to see more monitors featuring a u._s._b. Connections and in addition to some admi parts now the dichotomy between usb three and thunderbolt three has been quite frustrating for consumers while u._s._b. Three ubiquitous connection it transfers authors data at half the speed at best of the rather allusive thunderbolt three u._s._b. Four will essentially merges who standards creating a tulane forty gigabyte per second connection that will hopefully become a unified connection across devices and platforms now main reason why under both three have been such a boon for creative professionals empower us is is is that forty gigabyte per second transfer rate along for streamline video editing animation and modeling workflows. It has also enabled the introduction of new product categories stories such as external g._p.'s having to speed of thunderball three as a universal connection will bring these capabilities to everyday consumers making data backups and transfers. There's a faster and easier experience now granted when it first rolls out. You'll see the price point new goal. That's too much money but give it some time. It'll soon go down in price and it'll become rain little sweet spot where he just purchase it as worth the cost in any like. I didn't know that oppressive heat that low been it's incredible. It's basically can buy calculator for like a dollar now and it'd be like we yeah but we're like three steps ahead of it roll like u._s._b. Seven now and you guys totally missed for you like what dude this awesome. That's exactly how it's gonna go because he is going to be like why are so many we different standards going out while because as technology moves in shifts and adapt and we need bigger better faster stronger smarter smarter technologies. You're going to start seeing a lot more things shifting and changing turning as just the world of technology for you. Don't don't you love it. Speaking of <hes> while we weren't expected to hear much about anything about the apple watch but seeing as how the event four <hes> apple september event will be happening in about a week it's time we weren't really expecting news is becoming out about the apple watch but apparently the u._s. patent and trademark office today granted apple several patents for smart apple watch bands with features. Get this <unk> such as biometric authentication self tightening in l._e._d. Progress indicator interesting now for those of you wondering yes there is actually <unk> video that goes on with the show so if you'd like to see how some sensors in end of patents might look head on over to youtube dot com for cash tech news gadget otherwise if you are on the go feel free to listen to this podcast and whatever app you desire details at latest in tech news dot com the first patent here describes an apple watch ban with a sensor that can authenticate the wear based on get this patterns on the wrist skin's texture more particularly skin texture cracks are generally warmer than the surrounding skin and harris cooler than the surrounding skin by using using an i._r._a. Thermal image sensor as the wrist biometric sensor hair can be distinguished thermally from skin texture cracks by temperature pitcher who would've thought this teacher would eliminate the need to enter a pass code on the apple watch or a paired iphone to unlock that watch kind of interesting interesting here. The second patent describes a self tightening apple watch ban. If the where is running or working out for example band could automatically titan in order ready to ensure it has a snug fit on wrist while exercising upon completion of that physical activity the man would then automatically loosen apple. Watch users would be able to set locations where the band automatically titans upon arrival such as jim in other examples aband- could automatically tightened to notify user of an upcoming turn while walking driving driving or swimming interesting to help the wear count repetitions while weightlifting or to notify the wear that they have reached certain distance intervals while running and such as every mile interesting. I got a couple indicators onscreen. The self tightening band could also be part of a two factor authentication system on apple watch azziz scribe independent for example. If a user wishes to access financial details hosted on banking website the banking website may require both users credentials and a verification of a number number of tightening loosening patterns sent tweet where boy electronic device previously authenticated by the banking website. Does this have anything to do with the apple cart. I i find out in one example tactile pattern. Maybe a series of five squeezes of the user's wrist example tightening and loosening in sequence user may thereafter enter five to gain access to the banking website. The third patent describes an apple watch band with an l._e._d. Indicator that could visualize the progress of activity or task such as completion of the wok stand an exercise rings interesting indicator could also serve as an easy way to check an apple watches remaining battery life and a glance that we don't have to actually open the whole entire watch in tap around and find battery power now apple is hosting a special event as steve jobs theater next tuesday tuesday where it is widely expected to unveil new iphone and apple watch models while seasonal band refreshes expected. It's been rumors or leaks about. Smart bands might fifty one of them well. We'll find out keep in mind at apple's granted dozens of patents every week and many of the inventions do not see the light of day patents are also very detailed encompassing thing many possible ideas even once apple might not have any plans to advance so whether that comes to fruition or not remains to be seen but yeah be kind of cool any of these. These patents have equal. Actually i'd be quite interested in the first one seriously wrist bentiu cater the texture of your skin ambusher. Dude is nuts moving onto some more get news intel when hadn't unveiled sailed frontera a world's fastest academic super computer in august twentieth eighteen dell e._m._c. and intel announced intentions to jointly designed frontera cantera in academic supercomputer funded by sixty million dollar grant from the national science foundation that would replace stampede to at university of texas at hack back. Those plans came to fruition in june on the two companies deployed frontera which was formerly unveiled this morning. Get this intel claims frontier can achieve achieve peak performance of thirty eight point seven quadrille ian floating point operations per second or pedophile apps making it the world's fastest computer designed nine for academic workloads like modeling insulation big data and machine learning as compared to stampede two's peak performance of eighteen pat flops man see what i mean about technology advancing so quick i mean stampede to is like you a our peak performance. It's it's eighteen pedal flops. What can the frontier do three point seven quad gillian pedophile. That's what i don't know earlier this year. Frontera earned the fifth spot on the twice annual top five hundred list with twenty three point five pedal flaps on the link pack benchmark which ranks the world's most powerful title nine distributed computer systems according to intel vice president and general manager of intel's house extreme commuting organization <unk> damn kroger yup the frontier system will provide researchers computational in artificial intelligence eligible capabilities that have not existed before for academic research with intel technology this new supercomputer opens up new possibilities in science and engineering to advance research urge cosmic understanding medical cures and energy needs hundreds of twenty eight chorus second gen z. on scalable kentucky lake processors slotted within thin dell e._m._c. <unk> servers handle frontera heavy computational lifting onsite nvidia nodes for single precision computing the chips architecture is based on intel's advanced vector extensions five twelve a set of instruction enables twice the number of flaps for clack compared the previous generation and just in case you wanted to further frontier employs liquid cooling for the majority of its nodes with dell e._m._c. supplying water and oil cooling from system integration firm cool it in green revolution cooling in it leverages milanez h._d. Are in each day or one hundred interconnects to transmit data at speeds of two two hundred gigabytes pearling per second between the switches that connect. It's eight thousand eight nodes keep in mind. Each node is antiquated drowned around sixty five kilowatts of power roughly a third of which tag is procuring wind-power credits and wind power production in addition to solar power in addition to storage storage frontera features four different environments architect did by data direct networks which together total more than fifty peta bites paired with three headlights of nand flash cash capable in case. You're wondering what does this work out to about four hundred eighty gigabytes of s s d storage her node three general purpose in nature nature while the fourth both very fast connectivity of up to one point five terabytes per second yeah yeah <hes> this computers nuts like if you ever if you ever like yeah. I wonder if we could do really complex calculation but it's done. I usually take like a half hour is done already yeah yup mountain near you go frontera the world's fastest academic academic supercomputer moving onto some gaming news while the new cyberpunk twenty seventy seven video looks great but the games james com demo was even better plus our first look at the p. C.'s ray tracing features a year after initial gameplay debut c._g. Project red treated games count two thousand nineteen attendees to a new slice of cyberpunk twenty seventy seven with digital foundry onsite to check it out the lack of assets at the time prevented them author here from sharing many of the thoughts but the good news is at the follow up on event by releasing a fourteen minute video showing some but certainly not all of the content we have under slate here continued to impress but it is somewhat surprising to see presentation at is an match for two games come or e three demos that some people saw in person keep in mind. Some people have complained about the lack of detail and definition in the latest mo- despite c._p._r. Supplying a four k. video encoding youtube servers in adult seemed to be an explanation for this is indeed are pixel counts. The new footage is running at ten eighty p before being upscale to four k. However it is still operating at thirty frames per second oddity <unk> game running real time on a massive l._e._d. Or l._c._d. Display similar similar to the games com two thousand eighteen showing which running at a native for k. can't confirm pixel count for sure but are showing was clearly running at a much higher of lucien for those who watch interestingly the drop in revolution in video has a big impact to the quality of the overall presentation <hes> but i guess there's more more with that said though cyberpunk twenty seventy seven enjoy some clear visual upgrades over last year's demo whether using a ray tracing enabled g._p. Or not for starters reflection quality is vastly improved. This aspect of the game doesn't seem to be retraced relying instead on screen space reflections instead seen in the witcher three but correa submitted from last year cyberpunk demonstration which seemed to rely on direct lighting and cubans to approximate the effect s._r. in a new demo looked really nice in in puddles and metalwork and reasonably robust which is no mean feat based on some of the dodgy implementations that scene out resident evil to remake remake for one so let's see in terms of that cyberpunk twenty seventy seven remains dose as impressive today as it. Did it debuted his technical. Refinements are obviously welcome but by extension does this mean at the biggest question of all remains unanswered. Just how well of a game of this complexity going going to run on current gen consoles them once again highlights in immense level scale detail in density that we associate with next gen game in a world where the witcher three runs on switch. Anything's possible keep in mind but regardless house is gonna look like house is going to play out. Just gonna feel no. They got video that goes along with it. I'm going to go about it but yeah. There's actually link in this article too that video case. He missed it. You wanted to see it get. The impressions of of the demo games come then some cyberpunk twenty seventy seven good. If you guys are interested in game i'll find out <hes> might need to see some more demos abide by. I know it's a lot of buzz going on around it so i wanted to be sure to share some news about that for you guys and finely mainly while we got an article here from gamespot dot com the value of wild classic is more than just nostalgia now the author here. The <unk> subtitled it there in back again. <hes> i died eight times before hitting level ten in world of warcraft classic compared to vanilla world of warcraft back in two thousand five that was probably a lot more efficient than the first time around in a live or retailer. Whatever the current version of world of warcraft you really only die wants an open world. If you make a stupid mistake while classic is a surprising reminder that the game once seemed to be deeply comfortable with making players fall on her face in two years since fall classic was announced at blitz <unk> twenty seventeen the mood has shifted dramatically efforts majority of the sentiment wondered. Why would someone want to go back. Keep in mind for those of you watching twitch all the all the content of <unk> while classic like fifty five million hours collectively. It's not even like at first <hes> while there's hardcore tribal vanilla fan so serious about the old school experience they've been chasing a black market private service to get that old feeling any way they could felt very different in recent months with the classic beta giving many players streamers the chance to look back in with the dodge love fullback back into hearts. It seems like everyone is ready for launch. Indeed too many <unk> ready for launch day. The q. were ridiculous or twenty thousand strong and half a day wait eight times on some servers. Luckily for some rotten for others server crashes saw queues rotate a little faster but those who crashed out found themselves sent back to the q. Hugh blizzard launched extra servers to spread the load and help people jump in in house and fun but the reason so many stayed in those cues instead of jumping into an easy several is is a big part of what exactly people were coming back to classic to look for no not the q. itself a true day one experience while the catch cry but the reason people stayed put what's fundamental people made plans to play with old friends reform old guilds and once the plans are in place. You really couldn't just slop to new server on the fly. Classic is all about community even in those early levels game plays in ways akin into why people are falling in love with more recent games that are allotted for their difficulty. Yes world of warcraft really isn't a hard game in the same way that dark souls is but to succeed with minimal delay. You need friends to get by back in two thousand five while sina so ubiquitous in silicon valley circles it built a reputation as a kind of new gulf a place three people would meet and hang out run a dungeon in some fishing discuss business while sitting in booey bay and then you know get massacred by the current loud if it wasn't there it was on one of the a plan of cities some of that may have all been talked but <hes> the author here in their own experience as an early tech and games journalists journalists they made friends with future colleagues through the game they join a guild spend time regularly with people that they've met in the industry which helped solidify work context interestingly enough and networks if an go on to say if i'd started world of warcraft in more recent years you're since automated run random dungeons and raid cubes and tools you grew up with people without ever needing type of word and other names don't feel like you would have built such friend networks through the game so easily their first few days of all classic with everyone at low levels sharing during scant resources in moms in earliest areas of the game spontaneous groups would form as people helped each other complete quests it would actually wait and take turns to complete across the progress a little bit faster and with with minimal loss of life <hes> interestingly enough the author here was invited to group on their very first quest at level one the global chat channel in a multiplayer game was actually full of comments for once as people answer each other's questions or requests for help it was time for social media had made us all the jadick eggs cynics that we've all had but had uncovered just yet but keep in mind you could always <hes> probably they drop a joker tour morlock jokin aaron. You just have the whole chat. Go nuts. I actually i should try that. I should just log into wild classic just for the simple fact act of going in and dropping morlock joker or something something that i did when i i was on while long many years ago yeah <hes> named mobs for early quest for a particular problem i people just formed circles and grouped up in parties a five if you've got the first hit lucky you for you and your friends but then rumors started to circulate that some servers reforming spontaneous cues for bottleneck kills and if you hadn't seen the screen shots he might think it's an urban myth. Is you do it right. If you're gonna do it right way. Don't doda line oh my goodness and another cocoa santa explain. My friend is literally waiting in a line to kill quest mob on world of warcraft classic nick launch date law <hes> <unk> yeah unwanted to servers that was launched to alleviate the overly overly long queues the author here jumped into just be in a game running around having some fun one of the most common questions concern that this particular server shiny new with nokia are you at the door was bit to empty people wanted to be playing but they wanted to be playing with many other people delays while waiting for boards request bosses or less worrisome than the idea that we might end up in <unk> azzurra alone again. Yeah i think <hes> i think that essentially covers it wrote of warcraft classic delivers on that nostalgia gen reasons to play it goes beyond the graphics and mechanics so yeah <hes> keep in mind if you didn't know why that's kind of the big reason why and it's kind of one of the reasons why i'm i'm getting so tempted to just want to just for a month just for a month dropping on the style. I am remember the days 'cause i made a lot of pretty good friends of whom i haven't talked to in many years on world war craft back in the days help with quest help help was staff great guild mates. You'll friends hung out with each other. I think the only thing we did was like log in in the evenings unusual play for several hours at a time blabbing about stuff in killing stuff <hes> now. There's a lot of fun but <hes> yeah. If if you hadn't actually key here think about asleep you never really understood the whole nostalgia and the feeling behind it now is a great time to jump right in while while the hot as it were if you were you know wanting to jump in on the game but weren't quite sure just don't been on it for a month. It's not really that much money at i'm sure you could save yourself the money from buying a battle l. pass on fortnight until the drop on world of warcraft classic for amman and just run around for a month hang out with people have fun and a yeah see how it goes from there you might just be surprised and with that wraps up this episode oddly tech news. Thanks for tuning in new episodes. Every weekday. Weekday news can be found on every major platform including apple spotify google youtube stitcher or cast an more now enjoyed this episode turtle. Let us know by clicking that button anger aimed by leaving a comment if you're watching today the youtube also while if you're listening to the podcast we appreciate it if you could give us a review out on apple podcasts gas or wherever you happen to be listening. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend. Be sure to double check finally that you're subscribed so that you don't miss the next episode. I'm the house he'll american. Remember for leith and tech gadget and gaming news visit tech news gadget dot net much keeping awesome guys. See you on foot side <music>.

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The Subscription Economy Featuring Guest Tien Tzuo

Amazing Business Radio with Shep Hyken

29:51 min | 1 year ago

The Subscription Economy Featuring Guest Tien Tzuo

"Welcome to amazing business radio with bestselling author and customer service and business experts. Ship hyphen Chappel talk with some of the smartest thinkers and business to help make you more successful in your professional and personal life. This is amazing business radio with chef hiking. Will ris one shop hike here on amazing business radio back with another amazing episode? This one is sponsored by our friends at Salesforce, be sure to go to our show notes at WWW dot amazing business radio dot com to find out more can't wait to share this week's interview, you are gonna love when we get teams well on the phone, and he's gonna share some incredible insights about a book he's written that is basically the subscription model in any company is capable of creating a subscription model. So our monologue today in the lesson. I want to share before we get into the interview has to do with what I call the membership experience so many years ago, I wrote a book not that many years ago probably about six or seven and it was called the amazement revolution. And I used American Express as a role model for this powerful concept. They are hardly a private club. But they create an amazing customer or should I say? Remember experience, and they say membership has its privileges. And then I've recently, well, again, not recently three or four years ago. Maybe joined another club that I love to share. And I love this one. It's the Dollar Shave Club. Now, it's interesting about the Dollar Shave Club is you can call it a club. I am a member. But actually, it's a subscription. So if you know about the Dollar Shave Club, I know what you're thinking. It's not really a club. But it is an online store that sends you razor blades every single month of valid credit card is pretty much all you need to join this club, and at its basic level. That's what it appears to be. But at a deeper marketing and customer focus level there's much more to the Dollar Shave Club than being an online store for razor blades. I the company's marketing is fantastic. And I love about how they've gotten members are subscribers in that is with fun in engaging marketing you look at their short videos on YouTube and you'll. See what I'm talking about? Now, they're a little risk gay. So I would say they are almost are rated in some cases because there's some language in valor. But who would have thought that selling razor blades could be that much fun. So they're they're a marketing machine. So joining the club in subscribing as easy after you fill out and submit a simple form, you just receive a welcome Email, and and this did a couple of things number one. It welcomed me into their club. It confirmed that I made a good decision to buy and join their club. And again, they used a little bit of humor. The letter was funny and more importantly like I said validated. My decision and actually got me excited to try my new shaving experience and my blades would be coming in just a few days. So and as they promised a few days later, small package came in the mail and the razor handle and the blades were exactly what I thought they would be. They were great quality believe it or not they were less expensive than the blades that I'd been using for years and one of the things about the traditional subscription model with real. Recurring revenue. It's just seems like it's even if it appears to be less expensive often times, it is you save money by paying every month or in some cases every year. And here's the cool part. I didn't have to go to the store anymore to buy razor blades is a member of the club each month. I receive four blades one for each week. And of course, the package comes with a member handbook which told me about the blades when expect my next box of blades and just made me feel like I was part of something. I wasn't just buying a razor blade now. Obviously anyone can join the Dollar Shave Club. So as I asked before is it really a club. Am I really a member? Or is this just another online store, and I might just another customer when technically all of that is true. But here's the reality. My member experience has great value. It's inexpensive the product is high quality and the customer services outstanding. Which by the way, that is extremely important that you always maintain a high level of. Service. No matter how reasonable your product may be priced. How valuable that subscription may seem to be if the product doesn't do what it's supposed to do. And the service is in good. It's not gonna work, by the way. I also get that added benefit of feeling like I belong to something. So there are many names for the people who do business with you. They could be customers guess clients, patients members, whatever it doesn't really matter. What you call them as long as they receive that member experience. So we're going to take a short break when we come back. We're going to talk about kind of the member experience and that it's kind of a subscription model. Once you subscribe, you are a part of of a company, you're it's ongoing receiving things in an ongoing way. It's a different type of model to be thinking about we're gonna learn from an expert who has written in amazing book, titled subscribe more about that in just a moment. Don't go away. We'll be right back. Good customer services. Now, an expectation don't provide it you'll be disrupted by competitor Dutt's. So what can you do the standout? Well, that's the focus of latest book the convenience revolution. How to create a customer service experience in the disrupts the competition and creates fierce loyalty the goal is to reduce friction and be convenient for your customer self. If you're ready to take your customer service to the next level and disrupt your competitors. Well, this is the book for you to order the book, go to WWW dot beat convenient dot com. That's B convenient dot com. It's time for you to join the revolution. The convenience revolution is amazing business radio with ship hike in. We're back on amazing business radio. And I promised you another amazing interview in. That's exactly what we're going to have today with teams. Whoa. Who's the author of the national bestseller subscribed? Why the subscription model will be your company's future. And what to do about it the subscription model is a hot hot topic, as you know, I've been talking about that not only in the monologue leading up to this interview. But also in many of the episodes, we've had on amazing business radio. And it's a big chapter is one of the convenience principles in the book, the convenience revolution, which just came out not that long ago. But here's some interesting things about teen. This is really cool. He was one of the original forces in Salesforce, the eleventh employ not think about that. There are tens of thousands of employees. This company is huge and in nine years at Salesforce. He decided, you know, what I'm gonna go out, and I'm going to start my own thing. And that's what he did. He'll tell us more about it teen. Welcome to amazing business radio. Thanks me on. So that's pretty cool. One of the first we weren't the first, obviously. But number eleven that's that's like right at the very very beginning. And now, you know, how long ago did you leave? Just over ten years ago. So it was pretty big then. But now look at it today. I mean, they're taking up an entire city block with their building. And gosh, they shut down the city for their conference dream force. Which has been an amazing story. And I do feel fortunate. I joined so really it was before we had a product before we had customers. My interview was actually out a Mark Beeney ause house since we didn't have a I in office just yet. And they really turned something that that completely disrupted and revolutionized the entire soccer industry and something is certainly in proud of and it's part of the subscription model that you talk about. So let's get into that the solicitor option. You know, it's we're really in that subscription economy. So you release this new book subscribed? So let's look at the big picture. What is the subscription economy? Well, it's. That you and I you don't have to buy products anymore to meet our everyday needs. If you want to get them twenty eight point be you don't need own cars. Right. You can just happen to a service on the phone. Whether it's Uber really rise. These scooters the same thing with entertainment to seem for software. Just connected back to my. If you simply by Salesforce down it was really about using new technology model that people now, call cloud computing beside by side with that was a new business model this idea that you don't have to buy software. Right. You can simply subscribe to it in use as much as you wanted. Right. As many users many months as many days as much of the functionality in that concept, really revolutionizing higher soccer sectors. You're seeing Microsoft adobe even harder companies like Cisco really moving into this type of business model, and you know, ten plus years ago, the reason we peeled off in myself himself, my co-founder from WebEx another software to service company is we asked ourselves the subscription business model really just something that was disrupting software or could it really happen every single other industry. And this is what we looked at early versions of Uber. There was a company called zipcar out there because we had not been invented yet in plenty of people. A New York or campuses around the world. We're seeing I don't need to buy cars anymore. I can simply subscribe to to to the zipcars. If you will we looked at net flicks. Which was still sending out just DVD's at the time and saying, you know, look at this idea is limited right? There's three million people out there that have not bought the DVD or a movie in years. They simply subscribe to a monthly service where they get any movie they want, right. And we said ourselves look technology is gonna make these things better. And better. This is the future this discussion business model is going to be everywhere. So and it really is. Let's let's just look at the car industry, and I've talked about this before on the show, you can go, and you even in your book, you talk. I believe about Porsche I noticed in their in their past program. I mean, give him an example. I I was just recently was talking to auto owners of automotive dealerships from Australia, the top thirty dealers for Volkswagen came to the US, and we're in a meeting, and I said how many have heard about the concept of subscribing to a car? Nobody raise. Her hand. And by the way, I think some of them knew it, but they weren't sure where I was going with it. And you don't have to own a car. You don't have to maintain it. You don't have to ensure it you just subscribe to it take us through that model. So that we can really understand that outside of the traditional magazines newspapers and software that really anything could be a subscription type of model. Well, you're seeing just about every major car manufacturer Porsche, you cited that great example Cadillac is doing the same thing Audi is doing the same thing. And this idea that that you know, why why make the customer via car or even Lisa car? But what the difference between subscribing to a Porsche? And leasing a Porsche. Well, you don't enter into any long-term contracts, even treat a car in for different models. Perhaps today, you know, I want to see in. But tomorrow, I want that nine eleven to to kind of buzz around around the neighborhood with and so this idea that you can you can actually change things. But it goes way beyond that. I mean, we see companies out there like Naven that are saying gosh described any cars described chart flea or in need. You talk about the book, we actually titled the book not about cars, we actually titled it planes trains, and automobiles can when we pull up we actually see that the revolution going on. It's not just cars, but it's in transportation as a whole in the book actually sites Newseum people from the French rail system. Right. If you ever backpack through Europe, I'm sure you take into French rail system. It's called SNCF CF is launching a monthly service has launched a monthly service because they see their competitors. Not just as the train system anymore. But there's a local ridesharing service called, blah, blah car. It's more of an internal intercity, but between cities and inside the city, and they're seeing that is competition. And so what you're seeing is look I'm just trying to get I'm here point eight. I'm just trying to get the point be it could be two blocks away could be in another continent. And what are the services between planes trains, and automobiles that will give me from point to point B in a fastest of time most convenient and in cheapest way possible, and that's where transportation is going. And it looks like it made it scales out rather. Well, it has guaranteed income for the people that provide it and typically it's a little less expensive for the people that buy it. And I could give you an example away from transportation, Microsoft, you mentioned them a few minutes ago. I remember. I used to buy a box and the box head CDs in it, and I would put the CD in my computer. And then I had a second computer. I'd put it in there too. Because it said I could. But then as soon as I let somebody else use that computer. I was breaking the law didn't realize I was doing it. So I, of course, absolve myself of that at this point, hopefully. The time has run out on that one. But they switched to a different system where they say, you know, what let's subscribe to the individual. And like now, I own a license to gives me X number of seats. It's less expensive than I was paying for the one box. But guess what? Everybody's complying now because it's reasonable nobody's cheating the system, and Microsoft is making dramatically more money as a result. So I mean, it really is a win win. Well, it's a great win win. I think Microsoft really was falling on the heels of a company called adobe. Right. That sells the creative out. Sweet. If you will in we had a chance to interview, the general manager of the division, and what he pointed out was, you know, in the old model where we'd make a company meeting we make a customer by say version four the Photoshop and then two years later they had to pay money to buy version five. Well, a lot of them opt out of doing so. Version of all this money. Version four, and so we spend all this money all this research and development, you know, money to create the latest and greatest in our customers aren't even taking advantage of it because of the transactional model, and they said, look if we flip to a subscription model, it's not just a benefit of paint over time. You don't have to show out that five hundred dollars up front for that Photoshop. But you know, we'll make sure that this offers always upgraded, right? Because we taken away the need to ask you for more money every few years. It's simply part of your monthly service as long as you using it, right? And you pay monthly and we will make sure that you always got had the latest and greatest version, and it's just completely changed the dynamic of their customer relationships. Yep. And I am also an adobe monthly subscriber. We we have a licensed that our gal over in who does all our videos and all our Photoshop, and that type of thing that's what she uses, and you know, what so much better than trying to order it cash. Should I buy it again three years from now is it really that different? Are we really using all the functionality? No, they make it easy. It's not even a decision anymore just magically happens. All right. So here's a great book. Got it in my hand subscribed. Why the subscription model will be your company's future. And what to do about it talk to me about how this book helps companies get into this subscription economy. Well, we hear so many stories of success stories. A lot of them out of the software industry. You talked about cars. I mean, I think the media industry with newspapers and magazines. I is another fantastic industry that has been the positive prescription businesses. But we think that all aspects of our lives, right? Once a will be run by these things once consumers taste the subscription service. They start asking themselves. Why can't everything be like this? Why can't everything be like, Netflix, zipcar Uber or Salesforce or adobe? And so so there's so many companies out there that we talked to they're saying we want to make this shift. Right. The week. Tell us how tell us how. So we wrote the book to really inspire companies with all the stories that we hear from engaging with this in the first half of the book is really to talk about how this this cushion model chance forms a specific industry. So we cover retail cover software, we covered manufacturing. Again, we covered a chance mutation industry, and so really showing how the industry should switches from. From from visualizing selling products to delivering a service that consumers can actually use. You know, how that transforms the industry for the better the second half the book really then does inside of a company. Now, let's talk about how this changes your are indeed department. Let's talk about how it was changed your marketing department. Let's talk about how how the change your sales department and even your finance night. He organizations have to change. And so the book really becomes a blueprint want to inspire you with the stories of what's going on in the industries that that that that you're in. But also blueprint for how you actually have to change the way you operate inside of a company I love that. And as I read through the book, I I noticed second half got a little bit technical for me. But that's what's necessary to make these these changes in your process. I mean, you really do have to look at the finance department in your accounting department things change the way you Bill change the way, I it's all going to. And I think it's all all for the better. I've got to ask you any chance to will ever. See home ownership turned into home subscription. I'm not talking about renting an apartment. What would that? Look like if you subscribe to that big home with a big yard and driveway in a three car two car garage. Well, I think if you look at the younger generation it they're they're really highlighted by by by mobility. They they move around quite a bit. And so why are they opting for Airbnb is because wherever they are. They wanna feel like they're in their homes, and so whether it's in sporadic with with with with holiday memberships, whether it's we work right in terms of renting space where you work or serve Corp is another fantastic example of this or whether it's your home. What you're seeing is is people want to same type of things wherever they are. And so imagine if you can pick yourself up go to another city is still get all the things that you expect your house that same coffee maker the shame systems right the same clothes same car. Now. We're not there yet. But I'm sure some companies will come along the next three to five years and really figure this out and deliver a service that that gets you that type of capability that's not a vision. It's it's all possible today at one point I was looking at a time share, and there's a whole. Conversation for another day. But one of the things that intrigued me about this particular one is they said you're gonna come in. And you're going to get a decorator. You're going to get your artwork your pictures, your blanket, your pull everything you want the exact way you want it. And when you have it all set up we come in. We take pictures. We know exactly where everything belongs in is. When you come back. It's going to be like you walk back into the place that you walked out of yesterday, not six months or a year ago. And I thought wow that was more timeshare ownership, but I could see the subscription model really is working there. And that's what you are. You're subscribing to you know, a guaranteed X number of days of AK Shen. But it's no longer owner showed checkout, a checkout Virata is a company that we work with us. That's that's one of the leaders in this area. Yep. I love this idea. I love it. All right. We're gonna take a short break we come back. We're going to talk more about subscribed and teams. Well, you are the reason we call this amazing business radio. Amazing information everybody don't go away. We'll be right back. If you like what you're hearing on amazing business radio. And I know you do then you can get much more of this information. All you have to do is go to my website, hike and dot com. That's WWW dot H Y Keynesian dot com. Fill out the subscribe to the shepherd letter form and each week. You will get an article that contained a business tip stories. Much more all about customer service and experience delivered straight to your inbox. Thanks for listening. And don't forget to always be amazing. Two amazing business radio with bestselling author and customer service and business expert, chef hike and we're back on amazing business radio talk with teens. Whoa. About his new book subscribed. I love this book. And I just want to know if I if I'm a business, I'm trying to get my arms around it. How do I create this subscription model? If you're saying, this is where your company's future is how do we get started? Well, in early in the book, we actually show this picture this two diagrams on the left, and right, and the left side is really the old model in in in in the right side is the new model into key lesson from that picture is to start with the customer not the product in. If you're running a business today you have customers today. And but I would say you'll start with a view of what your customers are doing with you track all the usage and interaction to customer in one place. And then really understand how you can broaden your footprint with the customer, right? And and and in and make that much much more meaningful. And so we talk about a subscriber idea, if you will if you kind of think about this, you know, how how how did you relationship with apple or Amazon or Google transform involve over the last few years, and it all started with because you have an apple ID, you've got an Amazon ID you've got a Google ID in through those ideas that establishes your relationship with them. They've been able to go into groceries. They've been able to go in. Into into into assistance voice activated assistance, and you're in your apartment and in over time. They get a sense of you know, what we're already servicing your books needs. Nets come up on Amazon prime that's Advil to the Amazon prime that's add movies to the Amazon prime or or apple saying, you know, what we already sell you a lot of phones. But now that you have the phone you have your apple ID would've we use? His apple Di Di to show you more music or more news or more movies and so establish a one to one relationship with all your customers and making sure you haven't you take every aspects of that relationship back to that idea. If you will is really the best place to get started. All right. So I'm I don't want this to sound self serving. But I'm going to ask you, how do I turn my business? Now, I have a piece of my business. We have online customer service training that is a subscription based program. You can pay annual your pay by the month. Whatever works in your pocketbook. We have group licenses but as. As a traditional speaker that goes out there as a keynote speaker, I'm thinking, hey, I'll tell my clients you can buy me for one speech, but if you pay annually you can have four times a year. I mean is that how it works? Well, let's just up about I would say how many do you have right now and listeners how many of them do you have an Email ID where you actually know? I actually listened to five of your shows. I've listened to ten view shows I've listened to one hundred of your shows, you know. And so now you start classifying these customer saying this is the first time customer that has watched my first show. And what is the next step? I wanted him to take. And here's another customer. Let's listen to all my shows. And actually once more of me is willing to take out their wallet and pay me. Right. And then how do I monetize that relationship? And so the mindset is less about, hey, how do I get you to pay for one show or two shows as a transactional product. But how do I stop wishing ongoing one to one relationship with you? And how do I find all sorts of ways of monetize that relationship? And by the way, that's what I think what apple and Amazon have done when you log on. They don't say, hey, welcome back one seven nine two four eight six. No. It's welcome back Shep as soon as you log in. To an apple on the website. They know who you are the histories there. You're no longer a number. You're a customer. You're a person. I think that's an important piece of it. All so I would love to be able to get the analytics that you're talking about on this show. It's so hard to find first time or you've got to get subscribers. And then companies like I have to be willing to part with that information. But that's another story for another day. Let's let's talk about a B to B for a moment. Because so many of the things we've been talking about our beat ac-, but you mentioned be to be earlier what examples of business to business type models. Have you seen out there that are really working? Well, the g to tell the BBC stories since we can all relate to it. But the BB stories this this whole thing started with be to be I think companies really have been subscribing to soccer from Salesforce and Google for I for so long now and not opting to buy software companies also prefer to go, no acid, light or capital light. And so they can subscribe to a service for food for water for real estate, right? They they will opt to do. So now what we're seeing is probably the IOT space. Right. The internet of things is really transforming this and so-. Caterpillar is a great example, you think a Caterpillar, and you think well, gosh, how does a company like Caterpillar sells tractors excavators engine? How do they switch to the subscription economy? This about renting tractors and Caterpillar and say, no, no, it's not that. It's like all our assets or physical products today are smart products. We have two million physical assets in the field will perhaps them now have sensors collecting data, right? You know, by Gration data usage data. How often have I been used where am I in? They clicked all this data, and they send it over the internet into a cloud based service. And so now what happens is Caterpillar saying gosh, we have all this information about these products. We've actually manipulate these products remotely from our phone is all these new revenue streams that we can imagine of services that are tied to these products services like like safety services, where where if construction workers are wearing RFID paj in their standing behind one of these gigantic excavators. The s could've eight a can know that and shut down from a safety point of view or even predictive maintenance applications where I can tell based on the vibration patterns that this device this asset needs to be serviced. So let me take it off line now proactively so you only have three hours of downtime versus two weeks of downtime where you gotta wait for the part. You gotta wait right service person. Right. This this this. This translates me. Millions of dollars of savings on behalf of their customers. And so this is a really really exciting area that we're seeing companies go into so the put it into more of consumer based terms on star from General Motors can actually track if I hit a pothole it'll say, hey, your car just hit it sends a signal to the dealer the dealer, then informs me you'd better come in and get this car back in the alignment, or are you going to be buying new tires ten thousand miles sooner than you need to. That's essentially what caterpillars doing with these sensors is proactively seeing there's maintenance issues that are going to come up, and they're fixing them before the become problems in parts have to be ordered. And you have to wait to get fix me stuff to order the part. But it's proactively sent there before it breaks. So I love this idea. All right. We're starting to run out of and any any parting thoughts, I'm gonna ask you the one thing question. This is the big parting thought here is there. One thing you want to emphasize that you've already talked about or is there. Some nugget of information, you absolutely want our. Our listeners to here before we leave today. I know so many of your listeners are running businesses today. And I would say this to them. I would say that once you actually flipped to the other side, and you running a subscription business with strong recurring revenue. These are much much better businesses to run you wake up into at the start of a month as the start of the quarter. You've got known recurring revenue because it'd be a loyal customer base that you can plan around. It's so much easier to run these types of businesses. And then if you think about competitive edge, these days, anybody can take your product, whether it's a phone, whether it's a car in reverse engineer, and basically clone your product and offer the same product. But if you're competitive advantage is not based on your product. But instead is based on your knowledge of what your customers are doing. And the relationships that you have had only you uniquely have that is a much stronger position to be in. It's hard for another company to go Steelers relationships or to have the same knowledge of customers that YouTube you do much much better businesses to run. And the last thing is you can feel it in your own. Personal lives that you're finding more and more Utah you're turning into services and not the products to meet your everyday needs. And so from a business perspective. You got to believe that your customers for your businesses are doing exactly the same thing. And so this is a future business today. And we encourage every company to really move fast and furious into this new subscription economy. And even if you do it today with all the examples that are in your book and all that we've talked about today. It's still a fairly new concept for many businesses. So you're on the leading edge of something that's already been tried tested. Proven. The book is called subscribed. Why the subscription model will be your company's future. And what to do about it by teen is? Whoa. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, this is why we call this amazing business radio. It's been another amazing interview. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. We are talking to the guru of a model that is going to revolutionize this entire industry is entire world of business. So thank you so much, man. It's been awesome. Thanks for being on the show. Well that wraps up. Another episode of amazing business radio. We will be back next week with another interview. So until then shop hike in here reminding you to always be amazing.

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Episode 105: Where Are My Sunglasses?

Defenders Of The Night

56:33 min | 2 months ago

Episode 105: Where Are My Sunglasses?

"We are defenders that night did the most trusted source for top to bottom coverage of everyone's favorite mid-nineties animated program Gargoyles. I'm your host Daniel Williams and other host Eliza Circle is. Hey thanks for joining me today. In the studio talking about old g goals Gar. Giggles DO GARGOYLES. Yeah you are a gargling. We are finally finishing up awakening. They were discussing awakening. Par-five Mrs Season One episode five. Yup probably should've said those in the different owner. You know whatever I the. I thought I had before. The episode really started when we had the theme. When are they going to do the Goliath intro? I have to assume we'll get the next episode now that we're done with awakening and everybody who started watching they're like. I don't need to know wakened anxious I'll I'll start with episode six that makes sense but tell me what did I miss right. Tell me in thirty seconds what I missed in the past hundred minutes. I just want to hear his voice. More alright calm down okay. I Dunno man when it is jump into it. You got any our news garden coil. You know what this episode Awakening Part Five Aired October Twenty Eighth Nineteen Ninety Four. It was written by Eric. Luke and Michael Reaves. They have written the entire awakening series and it was directed by Takemitsu Cow. Mora and Katsuo Toronto nailed it. Thank you I assume showy. Yeah as with every episode so far. This one begins exactly where we left off. In the previous episode the Brogue oils have literally one thousand guns trained on them. And we're GONNA jump right into clip here because Brooklyn says floor comedy to days in New York City and there are already making bad elevator joke so I found it interesting that we did start right with them because like in the episode before we saw a little bit of Goliath and Lady Mac cargo whose name I can never remember. We don't get it yet. Oh that's right and we get it this episode a I never remember it. You know we got a little bit of them and then they cut away to the and then I thought we were gonNA cut away to Hudson and Bronx. Yeah the way they did. These attacks on the various locations feels a little disjointed to me. I would have preferred it if they did one the other than the other. But you know what I'm not in charge so it was twenty five years ago after. They're funny goof. Ups They Scurry back up the elevator shaft as the yellow jumpsuits as I'm calling them now and my notes they distort light in their asses up firing they shoot up the elevator like they mean business right in the Gargoyles. Go one floor. They don't even right. I'm not trying too hard. No they find all these whatever scientists who you where are these other. Oh so they go up a flight. The camera cuts to the scientists. And then the royals explode through the ceiling so they go back down to the floor. They were just on. I missed that they would opportu bypass the guns but we need to be down so they just like destroyed the floor. But how did they know where the lab was from the floor above Liz? I mean I guess David just gave them really good info. Experts that reading schematics prints. Why not so all? The guards are on that floor though just in a different. Yeah the fuck okay. I didn't even think about that so you didn't notice the bad matte painting when they burst through the ceiling. Because you know how hand-drawn animation works is. You have the same background and when something changes you just put a cell over it. So the background would have been the ceiling and then the next frame. There's they punched through the ceiling. And the lights flicker background gets really like it. Shifts really weird. I'm not an animation experts. I don't know exactly what the terminology would be. But you could tell the background was jumpy and did stays like in focus and doesn't move fascinating. You didn't see it but it was awkward to see. I like it was so weird that I rewound and watched again. I rewound my vhs cassette. And I watched again. I will have to rewatch the beginning with what's happening there. You know in the room with all the scientists and this is my really to understand first off how does Lexington no I understand. They explained to him. Okay you're going for this floppy disk. But he was boop knew exactly what to do. Yeah he knew exactly where to go like. Oh look technology people boop here it is. I got it. How because he is the Donatello of the group yeah does machines and then Broadway throws something a window and they're like Foca so for these scientists sake they are doing science the ceiling explodes. Monsters jumped down. I start to menaced them steal a floppy disk. Destroys the property. Like if you're on scientists you'd be like what the hell just happened. God what would you tell your spouse when you went home that night? I don't believe anything I said after. That anyway would seem ill right honey. Honeydew we need to take you to the hospital now. It's all very checked out. And there so our Powell oils palled around. They make a quick and easy. Get Away too easy. It seems too easy but again like they weren't where the guards are some the Dorky. Scientists don't necessarily know how to fight these monsters. No guards are assisting those fucking nerds. Yeah all the guards in the hallway. Nobody's in this room where the disk is. Yeah you'd think they would have heard the floor exploding and been like perhaps we should go See if they're okay in there maybe a war if they did go up a floor because they saw the oils up there and then there would with the folks and then lick maybe follow. The whole scene is following video game logic levy enemies in a different room. They do not bother. You are okay. That's Hilarious is Liz yes. We moved to the sewers where Hudson has certainly more of a problem. Procuring his disc. Yeah he and Bronx are going through these tunnels and they are spotted on a closed circuit television system and a platoon of the jumpsuits. Get the drop on Hudson. And he's like I'm GonNa fucking tear you apart and he starts ripping limbs and he starts punching guys and Bronx's chewing away arteries and it's brutal. It was pretty bad ass yet. None of that happens now. He can give up like a coward. I need these old. Hudson is the two days from retirement. I'm getting too old for this. Shit gargle literally that he literally says I'm getting too old for this. Well they they meant to look up. I didn't when did that movie. Come OUT THAT. I'm too old for this shit. I don't know if that was lethal weapon one or two but way before way before this it was probably a purposeful reference. Yeah for the adults watching and you know what Hudson is a big Fan of TV. Yeah maybe he just he saw them. That'd be areas so hudson is captured. Yes let's did. Everyone missed the giant doglike thing that he was rolling with because Bronx just rushes in and starts tearing dudes part for real this time and instead of immediately opening fire on the dog oil in the crazy winged monster. The guards stand around with their dixon their hand like. Oh what are we GONNA do? There's a dog thing. This guy's Jacking. Us wanted a time. What what guys. I hope. They're not paid very well. I had a note. Hudson gives no fucks about these humans. Ll Not have the same feelings towards humans that Goliath has no not at all and then know the fights happening in someone. Actually take a shot. Finally by the guy in the captain's Ad I feel like everyone of these soldier guys. Whatever the fuck were calling them they really suck it shooting their guns. They're like stormtroopers Even worse because they're not firing the dislike bumbling idiots yeah when they do fired like the US a Jillian bullets or lasers or whatever the hell it is and they don't hit anything like last episode or episodes ago when Lady detective turns over her shoulder and hits them with one bullet but she's being fired upon like a rain of bullets and nothing hits her like what she's in the Matrix. Yes so time a slowdown for her. So she can dodge all those bullets and fire. One perfectly aimed shock. Did you notice that the one shot that was fired in the scene? Shoot some sort of science device and then catches fire. They really like things catching fire. They are into fire in the show. It was a computer literally. Nothing would've happened. It would've maybe maybe says old. I guess like don't go around shooting a ton of computers like a waste waste of bullets in computers. Oh yes cracked me up that you know we have this compared to Lexington who's like beep disc and then Hudson issues like Smash Smash Smash. Here's my desk. He was literally in the right place still out of all the machines. He walked right to the proper Michigan and slams it down and I thought he was going to push the big button the fake out. I don't know what that big red button does. Which probably not good our big Red Buttons Ever. Good things The easy button. Yeah that is a big red button. So he's got the disk and before the GARGOYLES can escape. The Colonel Hits that bigger button and shuts the blast doors. I guess what the bigger to buy a big red button middle like that makes no sense. No I got a big red button on the wall or something that you hit to like door shutting button right not a better phrase for it to her shutting it so the gargle off the rails the gargoyles off down a random hall. And that's never a good idea. That's like horror movies shit. The fuck. You're going yeah. They're making their get away. Get trapped in a weird cage thing above some subway tracks. Yeah that's what I was GonNa ask you. You been a New York Avenue. Yeah did you ride the subway? Yeah I mean I guess if you're in the train you can't look up but like I'd assume something like that would exist for maintenance. I've never noticed the size of a subway tunnel or tunnel. That seemed really big underground. Train STATION TUNNEL. That has been turned into science lab right. So maybe it's extra big extra roomy for the science. You need space for Science. Ciano the floating sidewalk practically like they were in and then Hudson being the bad ass. He is just like rips it open and jumps onto a train. Your he does not have time for this shit. No he does not they. They finally escape. The TRAIN GOES ABOVE GROUND. Hudson catches the an updraft and they take to the air crash land nearby and they're safe strong gargoyles he's carrying Bronx. It'd be Bronx's got eight hundred pound bombs. The opera is a hefty boy. Yeah that's two successes yes. We're two for two one. More to the airship okay. Wouldn't it be hilarious? If the broil succeeded Hudson succeeded and Goliath fucked it up and like didn't or broke his disc or something harder so back in the airship. The lead hat is freaking out. Because you know. They know that they've lost two thirds of the data and Lady mcharg oil. Here's this somehow and takes this opportunity to say wrong. You lost it all through that giant steel door. Okay do they have like bat hearing do you think are they like part bats that they can hear really really well. I mean they do have large ears. That seem like a thick door lady. Mma gargoyles opens up the door. Like WRONG BITCH. You lost all of it. Yeah and again. It doesn't surprise me that she of all people knows exactly what she's doing because she hold your but I guess just like waltzes up to it and it's like beep boop and there it is and doesn't mine and the jumpsuits here don't even bother like this is the biggest thing that I've ever encountered. And he picked up a dude so you know what fine. Take your desk what he knows. What a yeah. And then for reasons. I don't understand. Lee Mc Gargoyles after retrieving the diss punches. Down into the computer console thing pulls out some sort of lightning filled tube touches it to a wall and somehow starts a fire Liz. Yeah I don't think the creators of Gargoyles no in any way. How computers work more fires. That seems to be true. Liz Yes what the fuck are we supposed to believe is happening right now? I don't know why is that tube filled with lightning. Yeah I don't think that's how fireworks. What what the fuck did she pull out? Pull out lightning tube like in the nineties had supercomputers I had to have lightning in order to work okay. Regular computers used regularly supercomputers use Super Electra sedate. Lightning lightning God. So has she been on this airship because we said that she knew all about the disk and she know where to get it but she posed. How did she know which? Computer David with the lightning. And it's in that one got it know all about lightening fine. So now there's smoke there's fire. Yes and Goliath. Why the fuck did you do that? And she's because I hate people. Douglas and she's like. I don't time to talk about this shit right now. We've got a book because it's exactly where my notes say. This bitch is evil. She is she hates all. Humans hates except David. I don't like they have to be fucking right and we're going to get to that at the end but yeah absolutely goliath wants to help the humans. We can't just leave him here. He says she's like fuck. Yeah we can. Also how does he know what the end result is going to be? They are putting out the fire because what this one room so like. How does that result in the airship going down was? That's a fantastic question. One that like God wants spark is going to make this thing explode if it is like that. Maybe don't have a supercomputer. Because when they got to the airship last episode they were being pushed backwards by the engine exhaust fans but that's what they were. They were spinning engines. Yes as one single computer caught fire. And the Goddamn airship goes down in the river. There goes and of course detective Dream Boat just had to be there. She's Look Rut. Rose that is of the giants. Whatever the fuck it is I guess. Are they used to seeing this thing or is it like incognito like do they see this thing floating above? New York was. I didn't even think of that. But yeah like what she expecting like. Oh it's the Zeppelin that I see all the time right slowly crashing into the river and then yeah two gargoyles and then. She's sick Goliath Goliath. We're GONNA we need announcing already we. We're going to have some words sir. Who is lady with you? I was your lady what the FAA was this whole Zeppelin slowly crashing into everything Israeli. Just Gimme perplexed. I feel like we should take a print look hunky hero and a fantastic leading lady to be brought to life with lovenox indulge in radio drama filled to the. Brim with romance laughed. All those wonderfully become with a new relationship and don't forget those delicious sexy parts that make Romance Novels. Oso to enjoy season. One of eleven love is available now at calamity cast dot com or anywhere that you can find podcast and we are hello. We are at Castle. Live though I have the justice. Shut up David you suck and I have no idea what that reference to well he was probably talking and then you like. David doesn't need anything specific. So as the Gargoyles were one hundred percent successful in their mission of returning the disks Liz at the nine minute. Twenty one second mark. Did you see the size of this disc? Did you notice that? David is holding it in his hand and it is easily three times the size of his hand. It is fucking gigantic. It's like the size of a record all of a sudden. I didn't look that big in the gargoyles hands because they're gargoyles. I think that it's just inconsistent. Animation changing scientists and then they do a wide shot radio disc close up giant. Maybe he was trying to emphasize the importance of this disc by making it bigger. Was I appreciate what you're trying to do here? You don't think they put thought into it but no. I think that it was just an animation mistake so obviously David's very happy to have his desk and he's just like okay. Thanks God I really don't like him fair so glide is talking to lady mcharg oil that he's got to go. He's got a hot date and he doesn't want to be late and she's like who the fuck are you talking about? You shouldn't trust any human. Yeah any of the except David. This kicks off a really interesting conversation. I WANNA listen and it's kind of long so just deal with aside from xanthos. We have no human friends nor should we humanity. Is Our enemy Goliath. I thought you learned that a Millennium Ago. Not Make War upon an entire world. Doesn't Santos prove that there are good humans as well as bad? Can you forgive the humans for what they did to our kind? The ones responsible for that have been dead for thousand years. Then there defendant shall pay. I will have blood blood. You said the centuries of changed me. They've changed you to become hard unforgiving. You're not as I remember you. I'm going to see my friend so she possessed like now. I know I keep asking this question but like it makes no sense to me that she hates humans this much. Then why trust David like it makes why I mean you keep asking it because none of this chip makes any sense. It would be really interesting to see lady gargoyles before. She decided that she hated all humans to get a real understand real understanding of what that turn was because even when we see her thousand years ago she didn't trust the humans it would have been really cool to see what made her turn and maybe understood this kind of evil streak a little better because right now it's just making her look bad. She's an asshole. Yes she's just evil for the sake of being evil or you know angry for the sake of being angry but without a cause right. We'll get there who maybe we're only five episodes and we've got seventy three more to go. Who Anyway Goliath is like you need to get a handle on your shit. I have places to be an lady to woo. He fucks off to and then we cut to D- Alexes Bank of computers. He's got incredible camera angle of this entire argument. He's watching it all happen from a drone if you notice the camera angle on his computer screen. It is like pulled back wide shot from above like bird's eye view. How the FUCK IS HE GETTING? This Camera Angle. You see this in cartoons and shit all the time like how are you seeing the same view that either viewer emceeing? He's secretly because they don't understand technology. He secretly during the day strapped go pros to their chests and they don't even realize that they're they're yeah exactly before we go to the next. Liz Deluxe says Goliath is too hard to control. What a pity something like that creepy and weird talking about I guess. He was expecting Goliath to be like a mindless monster that he can control like a Frankenstein's monster kind of situation but then Frankenstein's monster gets a brain and smart. Sounds like no no no dad. You can't control me. I'm going to go do my own thing. But he's had previous interactions with lady mcharg oil. Who is very manipulative and conniving in her own right yes for sure but I think he's realizing Oh Goliath is too good maybe like I can't just convinced the man to attack an airship. I guess because he's out of the fight between Lady G and him that he's like oh I thought having her around would like get him to do things and he's he like. No no no. I don't like this side of you bye-bye I don't know. It seems like a quick turn on David's part but he's just like because deluxe is plan has one hundred percent worked right. So why is he like Goliath all of a sudden even though I totally got him to do everything I wanted and you think the fact that Goliath does trust humans more than lady? Jaye would work on David's behalf. Yeah Yeah we've finished our worrying about deluxe. Yeah we're moving to the rooftops taking so detective. Dream Boat is patiently waiting for an explanation as to where to wear Goliath was 'cause she thought him flying away from as she calls it a plane crash girl. I don't know if you've seen a point before. But it's fucking not a plane. I have never left Manhattan. I have no idea what a plane is. One thousand nine hundred ninety four so she's not familiar with the future. Yeah not a good detective but she is because she already know some Shit Yeah. She knew the three labs were robbed by creatures. So she's like she's like affect my gargoyles and motherfucker. I saw you with another woman. Yeah so it's just like really just yelled at because I going to go see you in late. Gd You're gonNA yell about her. Do you think that's what love triangles do anyway? So he explains that the desk were stolen from David an he was just helping get back. What was rightly his. Yes they had to fight and yes destruction happened but like we were helping David. It's fine dream. Boats not having any of glance condescending. Patriarchal Bullshit dropped some knowledge on his ass. Check this shit shit out. Remember this trace. That emblem. It's the logo of the robotics firm that's owned by. Are you ready Xanax? Enterprises are you saying that Santos's responsible for the attack in the park. That's exactly what I'm saying. He probably planted that Boko new himself. But those were the same men who stole the disks from him Goliath. Nothing was stolen checked. Those discs were cyber by addicts property. He must have stated that to trick you into stealing the disks. He used you. He's been using you from the beginning. Pretty sure this confirms our theory. Deluxe is behind all of it. I don't fully understand why I don't even understand. Okay Liz. Can you explain it to me? So that means all three labs his is that what it means. That's what I was confused. Minute okay actually know this own cyber -biotics so here's I think what happened okay. The case that was stolen didn't have anything in it right. It was empty so the the helmet guys are his so the attack. That happened in episode two. That was his people to stage a fake robbery. So he could be like hey. They stole that from me. I need it back so the discs were never his information The data was never his. He just needed. He knew Goliath Gargoyles. Wouldn't just Steal Willy. Nilly had to have a reason and the reason was they stole my shit. I need it back. Stealing it period. Okay so he doesn't own these cyber -biotics company no his rival rival. Yeah Okay He. He came yes. The case was empty. Had nothing in it. He pretended to have his shit stolen. And that does make sense. Because these cyber -biotics jumpsuit guards looks different different than the helmet. Guys Jumpsuits v Helmets. Yeah all right you got it. Make sense to me. Yeah I accept. Oh so dream. Boat Convinces Goliath. That deluxe is definitely a shit. Dick Desk Fuck but the have to trust somebody. So why not a her and then she rubs his face. Oh yeah she promises. It'll be worth like girl. You are using your charm to win him over you know. He's thirsty. Boy Live boy. Come here come to Mama. Gotcha boy. Sh God it's going Zana Toast Tower. Yup Liz play this clip. Yes please it has to do with in Deluxe spouting some shit that I just. It goes back to the the not being able to trust glass. It just doesn't make any sense so all right let's listen. I'm afraid. Gargoyles have outlived their usefulness. I can't count on their loyalty but now with the data on those discs. I can bring their replacements. Online holiday already outlived their usefulness. They've been uncurbed cursed for like two days. Let you. That's fuck ton of work to get these gargoyles generic city to be like we're done with you is who days maybe three. I'm even so flustered. Because he gave them one assignment and they did and he lied to them about the assignment and they still fucking did. What is he talking about here? Like he's lost his marbles bonkers so okay he's full of Shit. Hurry the usefulness of Goliath and company he had them steal the discs for robot related reasons. It kind of sounds like he in Owen. They're like hey when the sun comes up and the other gargoyles are asleep. Test them and lady MIC Gargoyles. Like why the fuck should we wait? Let's blow these mother fuckers now. What is her game well? She's manned that Goliath is with another lady she's using her vagina. That think right now. So you're telling me that rather destroy people the only people who are left the only ones left so she called the last of kind the last she wants to be the last gargoyles. Does she really think that if he's like all right? I got these robots now. I don't need creatures. I can't control. She gets the stick around like she's elusive right. She's way more of a loose cannon than than go is in the other she's a loose end. Loose cannon yeah. She thinks she's more important than she is. The problem women are always thinking that sexism we go outside and our are just chill and just like chill into the Max. Where did you get that little computer? He's got a little computer Brooklyn his sports them. Six shades and Broadway. Being the fat one has an entire dining setting of snacks he got like takeout from everywhere they get the table. It's gotTa tablecloth on what Does Avenue. If you have a billionaire who is your pretty much sugar daddy right like. That's pretty much what David is doing taking care of them. You just dragged out a table random room. He's like I want to eat. Yes so this further confirmed my theory that these are all Ninja Turtle. Analogs get back to that. Goliath is Leonardo. Obviously he's the leader. Lexington is our DONATELLO. He does machines Brooklyn cool sunglasses as a Raphael but rude. Yes give me break. Liangelo isn't Raphael. Yeah so yeah okay. Michelangelo is our Party Dude Broadway. Always eating pizza so Hudson. He's gotTa be our master splinter. I assume he's old. Yeah WHO'S BRONX? I couldn't figure it out. I sat there like who is Bronx in this scenario. I don't know because obviously Casey Jones Amish because I don't have anyone left Bronx's Casey Jones share because they don't have any pets now. No turtle a turtle. No that seems inappropriate that seems like slavery anyway and then robots. Let's get into this robot. Shit Deluxe has built giant Gargoyles. Automatons right like why if you're going to build robots that can do whatever you want and destroy set like me to look like. Why do they look like Elias? Why are they looking like Gargoyles? David I think David also has a boner for Goliath. Yeah maybe he recognizes power. Yeah in leadership. Do you think that he? How long did it take to build these robots right? Did he have them and he just needed the software? Yes I think that was. He had them and that's why he needed the disks but like just like boop that into the computer and like power them up like I guess. It's some sort of technology that he hasn't been able to create himself so that's why hit to steal it from the other people. That's gotTa feel really shitty right. You're supposed to be the best and you're like oh I can't do this thing. I WANNA do without the shit that they created and the reason I ask is because winded. He decide that they were all going to look like a life. I guess he when he went to Scotland and I was like Oh yes castle. I'm GONNA buy it. He just stared longingly at the statue. And he's like this. This is what I want. This is my I was GONNA say. David this shelby my masterpiece exactly he tells the robots to attack and the Robo goals start firing off all kinds of lasers and shit and it gets really exciting. This episode is full of lasers and gun play. Shit it's wild. Why does it? Nypd do nothing about the fact that this building is constantly having light shows in two days to attacks. Yeah I don't know I wonder if it's because it's so high up that they cannot see it. I like what he's describing. Why The robot? They're better and he's like well they can fly. They don't just glide unlike Oh way to way to slide that dig on them. Also they have rocket strapped to their backs flapping their stupid robot wings. Shut up can you just imagine how rich deluxe must be that first off he was able to buy a fucking castle? Haven't transported bit by bit and rebuilt in New York City to have these gargoyles for only a couple of days. Also somewhere in there built these robots like dude. Get A fucking hobby. It's building killer. Robots but here's the thing why what are the robots for. I can't wait to find that. Oh what is his fucking in game here. Did He. Build the robots to replace the GARGOYLES? Did he build those robots in six hours? I don't know I have so many questions about these fucking robot. So he had gargoyles. His purpose of them is to protect his company right and also steal stuff from the other company like to be his minions. I think he was born. He was like own. See if Madrick's real yes. Yeah magic is real as a cool. It's real. I like my robots butter though. Go these imagine trill fucking robots a cooler and you know what I gotta say. I'd rather have goliath that isn't metal. Stone over metal. Yo I mean if you give that robot glass a good personality it's Kinda yeah but doesn't have a personality or milling machine on at the moment but there's always room for improvement. Just makes him even more like Tony. Stark had Tony Stark. In all of my experience has never been out now just evil. No not at all let me. That's his hope thing as he's like. Oh fuck this. I can't have my dad's company being used to make missiles and shit for bad people. Tony Stark always accidentally evil like most of the time. He's got like a good idea. A heart of gold in that little glowing but he's always messing something up and like. I'm accidentally the villain again. No let me fix s. Got All my friends killed. Poor still just go back in time anyway so back to gargoyles which I feel like we've only talked about sixty percent of the time this it just keeps making me think of other. You're not wrong. We get a really action packed. Sequences the Gargoyles try to say the jet packs and lasers and it's really it's no use. They are no match for these robots Broadway gets taken out and crash lands Lexington gets hit mid flight and broken managed to catch him mid air. My Poor Little Lexington. And here's the thing about this scene. This little berry here Brooklyn is acting like he's struggling to stay aflutter with Lexington in his arms right but Hudson could carry the big dog. No problem in the first episode Brooklyn was seen carrying to vikings in throwing them over the castle walls to full grown men. You're telling me that Lexington weighs more at three foot. Six inches weighs more than two full grown vikings. Liz I don't buy it. Some Justice Brooklyn's being blasted out of the sky. Goliath shows up from his date and smashes one of the bots and shit just goes crazy at this point so of course. It's real. Goliath versus robot Goliath in. It's pretty Intense Loy there's lust in your eyes. I see across the table making me uncomfortable. Yeah and so yet again Gliding makes no sense because Goliath is going against robot him and just like FIS up into the sky. How little buddy. I can only assume that. He caught like an updraft but it looked like he flapped and went up word so anyway he moves Lexington all the way who's unconscious and put them next to Broadway. Who's also unconscious and then goes back to the fight. Meanwhile who has been chilling out in the TV room watching the real world road rules. Challenge comes out because of all the noise is like what are you crazy. Kids up to Holy Shit fucking. The castle is once again just collapsing around him. Lasers are going off left and he and Bronx are attacked by another Goliath box. There too quick. They've got those like reflexes at two hundred and fifty thousand years old. Bronx manages to jump up and grab the Goliath Bot in mid flight and grab by the tail and his pulling and pulling in Hudson pulls out his fucking short sword which I often forget that he has to and slices that robot like forehead to Dick I. He's way more warrior than the others. He's is like almost like armourer his shoes. And why are they not all arm? No clearly they know that weapons is maybe they think their claws are good. Enough like Hudson knows than that and he's like you know what here's to humans understand certain things and it's okay for us their shit. Yeah TV. The sword wearing clothes we briefly cut to the lobbyists detective. Dream Boat comes running through my God and we're explosions. Yeah like I already know what's going on. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA go ahead. I'm just GONNA go. She runs right by the the security guard and lobby. She's like no. I know where I'm going. We go up to the Skies Glances surfing the back of robot. Maybe he's the Michelangelo. Nah Okay he sends that fucking robot just careening headfirst into another flight robot. Yes taken out to at once. It's awesome the fucking master. They rain robot. Parts down onto deluxe and Owen. That was pretty funny. Like fuck you you piece of Shit. Well deserves that. He does and he's just sitting here like This is not going how I thought it would. This would really on my favorite. I laughed out loud when those parts were raining down on them was like fuck you. So here's my question. So you know they're beating ass taking names and and winning right like the tide has turned to since glide showed up there actually succeeding. What does David think is going to happen? That like oh I just tried to kill them for no reason and they still live here right. I ask that later on like what is the expected outcome right. Does he want to kill the Gargoyles? It seems like whereas it just another test. I don't know but like how do you come back from that? God is like all right this dude just fucking trying. Kill me in my people my. Bros and cool. We're just GONNA keep chilling on this roof and eating food. And maybe that's the exchange. He occasionally he tries to kill us. But like it's free rent so it's new Manhattan expensive. Yeah that speaks also to lady mcharg like why does she want you said it earlier? But why does she want the last of her kind to be destroyed? Robots do not understand her. I feel like I need a deep dive character. Study of her family. Learn more as the show progresses so Brooklyn and Goliath. They managed to take out the last robot by trapping. Part of the castle on top of it does he just have a mason on call. Come Fixes Castle every fucking day not on call the Mason just lives on site. Yeah every day pouching this again so they take the last robot there are no more robots and as angry as lady. Mcharg oil is like you wouldn't think that what happens next would happen but she pulls out a fucking Bazooka right and starts firing at the last gargoyles in existence. When did she learn guns? A B. Why and we don't learn by the end of the episode. We do not learn what her deal is. Why she so angry. Liz yes there's a dramatic act break here in the episode and I think we should follow suit. I'm left flustered. I needed. Take some deep breath. Okay am worried I am worried. We're GONNA take a own. Thanks for listening. Help others find our show by rating and reviewing on I tunes checkout calamity cast dot com for even more content and follow us on facebook twitter and instagram. To get in touch and let us know. How doing if you like what you hear and you want to help. Keep the lights on. Consider becoming a regular calamity cast contributor on Patriot. Or You'd like to make a one time donation you can do so at pay pal dot me slash clammy cast. We appreciate your support and your donations. Truly make a difference. Okay so we are back at the drama and the castle. Oh it's still happening and leading your mcharg oil. Just has her fucking Bazooka and fires a rocket at Goliath. Any like fifteen feet away girl what are you doing? You love that man you literally just like yeah. They were wing hugging in the last episode. They were we. It was hand stuff their wings were protecting them from view. The hand stuff. Here's the thing like how do you turn that? If she had hit him she would have been covered in his core. That's how close. She was standing just glide meet and he's like what are you doing? What are you doing right now? Why are you doing this? Yeah she and Goliath. Have kind of a standoff. The other gargoyles are prepared to rip deluxe a new asshole. And he's like. Hey how about instead of attacking me. We just let these two guys have a little chat. I feel like they were running out of time here in the episode. They're like no more action. We gotTA stop. We ran out of fight budget. And there's that villainous monologue that lady Macbeth has and I'm gonNA play that here. Okay combine if your food but then you always were too. If you'd only taken the rest of our clan away from the castle that night. The plan was perfect it would have succeeded. What plan I made a bargain with captain. I was to get us all out of the castle. So that the Vikings could save it what it would have worked and after the humans were gone we would have had the castle all to ourselves but you ruined it. You had to protect the humans. You made a stay at the castle when we should have been with you when the Vikings attacked the captain said he'd protect us but I didn't trust him. I've stayed alive because I trust anyone. But why did you do it? You can ask me that. After how they treated us they had to pay all humanity has to pay what they did to Al Kind. This is a pretty heavy scene. She dropped some big news. Yeah she hates. Everybody hates all the humans she wants to wipe them out and create a world for her kind leashes to kill her logic. Her logic makes no sense. I still don't understand what El Capitan was trying to do right. So he wanted to the castle for himself he was trying to get rid of. Is that all it was no. He's just really tight with gargoyles. Who's like all this hanging out? We're tight we're cool. Let's be friends. Fuck all the other humans meat. I like this. I like this plan so you but I like your plan. So does she no matter white year it is? She finds a stupid male human to be like even plan. I'll be part of this. I guess so. I'll capitan is like deluxe nail except Alexa pilots. More power but I guess a thousand years ago. If her plan had succeeded it would have been a lot easier to go round killing all the humans and there would have been more gargoyles to do it. But now don't understand doesn't really make any sense. My my notes continue to be shouting about deluxe and what he gets out of all this saying that from the beginning of this episode and even before so at this point we're near the end of episode five foreclosing closing out the awakening. Liz We finally get to hear lady MIC Gargoyles name which is shorter than lady mcharg oil. And I'm glad because I don't have to say it or type it anymore. I named to Goliath the humans gave it to me long ago. You should know it before you die. I am Mona. Humans. Give her nameless. Yes we finally get to call her by the name that we knew she had all along. She is Dimona now. So why did they give her name because she was the all haughty but like humans gave me a name to Goliaths? They probably gave all you assholes names like you're telling me that someone gave Goliath name. Someone gave Dimona a name and they're like envy authors and the pro coil. What's also how did he not know her name? Does she get a name after they were stone? Lake Shoe survived right like she was able like. She wasn't stone defied so like she says she was. And it's believable. She says she was cursed. By the MAGA's the same way that goliaths decided to be cursed by the mega is to like. She went to him and was like. Hey just you know. But she's also a liar so who the fuck knows what she's been doing the past thousand years right when she got that name. You're right that's a good question that I never considered because if it were at the same time that he got Goliath like why wouldn't they call her Dimona to his face? Yeah yes you can call me Dimona but other gargoyles around maybe they just called her. Dimona bonaly tour phase but like lose fucking Damone over here. T think I'm sure it's a playoff like demon bs. Something Lady Demon she as a level demon. Oh my so. We're getting wrapped up in the minutia. Here we're almost finished. After Dimona says her name Dream Boat finally shows up these elevators. They're not super speedy now. She is been writing elevator in real time. She just decided to run up the stairs instead. Yeah she took the stairs. Five hundred floors another rocket is fired and it takes out the castle as we've already mentioned deluxe must have obtained that live on the property like ten floors of the skyscraper are devoted to housing his masons. That's why it's so big. He's got a house all of his Mason. This rocket explosion. Yes knocks deluxe. The fuck out good but it also makes Dimona and dream boat get near the edge and start tumbling and Goliath has to make the choice. Do I save the human girl who I love or do I save Damone? I guess her name is who I thought I loved but apparently has been after me this whole any extreme vote. Well here's what I would say to that. Liz Dimona has wings yes. She can't help herself and she's fine but also dream is used to it. This is the second time she just likes tumbling off buildings from the stratosphere down to the earth below like she's over she's like. This isn't even exciting anymore. It's fine obviously as you said. He Saves Dream Boat Setzer Down Safely. And then he goes to throw deluxe off the fucking. Yeah but don't talk him out of it and it's like if you do it then you're no better than Dimona or you know. They just won't be a plot anymore if he just through deluxe off the roof. All of the gargoyles problems would go away which it might be worth that killing. One human in cold blood and really. It's not in cold blood right. It's to protect also in retaliation for the shit that he's already pulled right. He tried to kill them. It's self defense. It's really not to say that deluxe does not deserve this shit. It would be a terrifying way to die guess cod yeah but instead Dream Boat. Just arrest okay. Not that that's going to do anything. Owns the police. You Know He Shirley. How else are they just like? Turning a blind eye to all this explosion battle. He's got the police in his pocket. He is this city. The episode ends with some comedy from the oils lighthearted way to in this pretty heavy episode. Brooklyn's sunglasses his sweet shades. Were broken in the fight. Broadway's hungry gliding dream boat. Make out and yeah that's it they don't make but they do make plans for another date. Which made me wonder? When does she ever sleep or work? Yeah she'd literally spent every night until sunrise with Goliath. Maybe she takes micro naps. Maybe you know five minutes here. Ten minutes there. She's trainer her body to run off of six hours of sleep total but in very small chunks. Maybe Goliath just energizes her. She doesn't have to work until nine. Thirty Sun comes up around this? Let's call it summertime around five thirty six o'clock and after he wears her ass out she goes home and goes right to sleep. Our just gets all comfy cozy for a couple of hours Liz. We've decided that This is just an adult rated podcast about. I think that's been clear. Since episode one YEAH WE ARE FOULED. But we made it to the end of the awakening. Five part the start of the show. Yeah I think we should take one more break. We'll finish her up. We'll say goodbye and we'll see what's happening next week. Cool Long. In Modern Day Bristol. Someone is copying one of the most infamous serial killers of all time. Jack The ripper. Only this time. The story is different. A woman survives and decides to get her revenge by taking the law into her own hands but in so doing she awakens a darkness deep insider if you like suspense Thrillers Man. Serial killers tune into Jane. The ripper and audio drama coming to Calamity Cast Dot Com Halloween Twenty nineteen. Welcome back everybody to defenders of the night. Where a once again. We have finished the five part opening to the gargoyles series the awakening Liz. Yes hell of a run right. This is a really interesting way to start the show. What did you think of this up? In specific I liked it. It was very action packed. you learn things? I'll just kept making me go well and like. I have so many questions and a good thing that means. I WANNA keep watching in hopes that these questions will be answered especially about the robots and the Mona. I'm glad we can call her by her name. Now yeah cheese it fell off the roof and I do think she survived The they leave that open ended by like wings. Obviously Juliet right leg. We've seen multiple other gargoyles fall off the roof like we know they're going to be fine. Fine did we call it on the robots or did we call it. You said it. Earlier on the episode robot related. We said it way. Early in the series deluxe is the bad guy. Yup We nailed these things and I gotta say it's not because I seen the series before because I didn't remember Shit right like some of this stuff wasn't coming back. Oh no the whole first episode came back to me but since then I'm like okay. I remember general things about this series as a whole but yeah I I'm not remembering these platforms at all for me for a lot of it's been like watching a new show. Yeah that's how little I remember. It's more of the kind of feelings that brings up in me like the. Yes fucking my childhood. Yes exactly yeah. What do you think David trying to do? I think that he's just trying to be an evil rich guy like despite what they've shown us. He has specific motivations other than to be bad guy with a lot of money. He can do this. He's doing it. Yeah he doesn't have any specific ideas or goals right now or if he does. They are not being broadcast to the viewer rain. Yeah just to be the biggest baddest richest tech guy. I don't know how about you. What do you got any? Yeah I think a lot of is just like the be the most powerful unstoppable. I'd like to know his backstory a little bit like I feel like most villains have some sort of reason why they are the way they are right. The best villains are the ones that are the heroes their stories so maybe he has motivations that we'll see more clearly as the series goes on. I hope so or it's going to be one note of character. Just will no. Yeah and he seems like there's so much room for gross fair that we're going to get a lot of his pesos or not. Because it's fucking children's cartoon rate that's the thing who knows. I know I mentioned this during the show itself. But what are they supposed to do now? They were literally just had attempted. Murder happened to them. David has shown his hand right early. Yeah little soon. They know he wants them. Dead and has these robots has plans for mass destruction. They know Dimona is not a good gargoyles cool. Let's just keep chilling on this castle yet. They live with their main antagonists right. I don't remember what Dream Boat said took off but instead of him his normal Posey When the sun comes out he was like shocked to look on his face. God Yeah what was it? It was funny I think. She showed him her boobs. Hope Hoop as I hit the MIC. Boobs are exciting. I don't I don't care. Do you cowboy if Google has a boehner when the sun comes up to stay heartache of course it gets Liz Liz. Liz Gets rock-hard. Look at the literally covering my is was. Can we finish Liz once again? We've finished another episode of defenders of our. Thanks go out to eat and McGowan four. Providing our interstitial musical ditties go find him on Instagram and twitter at I'm not spelling out this time. Easy underscore breezy underscore MAC and check out his band. Good deeds at good deeds music band camp dot com big it now they know if you want to Gargoyles or your favorite killer robots use the Hashtag gargoyles wear at calamity cast. I'm at Zirkin eater. Z. E. R. K. I. N. A. T. O. R. AND DANIEL IS AT UNDERSCORE DS Williams. Because he's the only one of us who can do easy. Campbell's on instagram. Easy handles Williams on instagram. Where at Click Network Daniel is at again underscored? The William Rhyming is important and I am at L. Circle find us on facebook at climbing cast. Email us at clinic cast network at Gino Dot Com and check out to dot com for all the podcasts that we create we make so many friends have to sit down. Gather around folks. We say every episode but if you went on your favorite podcast and you gave us a five star rating in a review. We'd really appreciate it. It's one of the best ways to know that you're listening and we have a patriot. So if you like what you hear in support the network head over to patriotic dot com slash calamity cast and become a patron for one time contributions to the cause. You can use pay PAL DOT NI SLASH. Calamity cast one more way. You can sport everything we're doing is to head to claim to cast dot com click shop link at the top end by shirt or some stickers Bath Mat or any other weird stuff that are shop offers. You can get an official royal t shirt now. We will return next week with season. One episode six of Gargoyles and an episode of defenders of the night that is so glad that Dimona zone forever. By by a BIPEDAL GLUE. This has been a calamity cast production for more content visit calamity guests dot Com and follow us on facebook twitter and.

GARGOYLES Goliath Liz Liz Goliath David Hudson Bronx Brooklyn David I New York City Lexington Dream Boat Dimona Lee Mc Gargoyles Vikings Broadway facebook Lexington Daniel Williams
Special: Unintended Consequences

Spark from CBC Radio

54:43 min | 9 months ago

Special: Unintended Consequences

"We return to simplicity in a revolt from the sophisticated said visionary English Canadian print maker Sybil Andrews Andrews working very speed need dynamic motion and rhythm resulting in vital an eye catching imagery that offered a new way to look at Everyday Life Glen. Bell Museum in Calgary celebrates the full breadth of her career from nineteen twenties Britain to her postwar life on the Canadian west coast which she called home until her passing in Nineteen ninety-two Sybil Andrews Druse Argon life on now. Learn more at Glennbeck Dot Org. This is podcast. I'm hi I'm Nora young and you're listening to spark we. Humans are great at creating new technologies designed to make our lives easier. Unfortunately these creations are often often fueled by hubris and a remarkable inability to foresee unintended consequences from bagging your own groceries at the self checkout to the destructive power of just one yelp reviewer to all the shadow work. We don't realize we're taking on today. A look back at our coverage of the unwanted and unexpected impact of technology and when Meredith Bussard was a kid. Her Parents Bader erector set to build a toy robot. She's been an hours putting the robot together. The whole time imagining what it will be like to have a new robot best friend to hang out with the when she finally finished and switched the robot on nothing happened. She called her mother and together. They discovered that the robot had a defective motor. Her mother explained. Things can go wrong when you make things eventually. Actually the toy companies sent a new motor but it was a bit anti-climactic the robot works but not very well and it was far from the best friend. Meredith had imagine the experience totter that building. Things is fun but it also showed her. That technology rarely lives up to our expectations. In the truth. Sometimes things just don't work the way we think they should meredith interest in technology continued and she decided it was how she wants to make her living. I started my careers computer scientist and then I quit to become a journalist. What I do now is I do? Data journalism which is the practice of finding stories and numbers and using numbers to tell all stories in two thousand eighteen meredith released artificial unintelligent. How computers misunderstand the world? She joined me to talk about how the book was both a Guide and warning. So you say that we're so enthusiastic about using technology for everything that quote. We stopped demanding that our new technology is good. So why does technology did you get past like that. So one of the things that I talk about is a concept. I Call Techno Chauvinism. which is this idea that technology is always the highest and best solution and we? We thought really long time but we can look around now at the world we've created and we can say it's much more nuanced than that you you know. We're twenty years into the digital era and still every time I go to a meeting we spend the first ten minutes with somebody up at the front trying to figure out how to use the general our point right and and so where does that techno chauvinism come from It comes from a particular kind of bias that says that mathematical and engineering problems. TMZ are superior to human problems and it's it's a pernicious bias and we need to critique it and I if we do critique Ed we can make better solutions that work for larger swats of humanity The technology of automated data processing contributes to man's attempt to bring order out of the unknown extending the boundaries of human knowledge. So the same time as being kind of an off technology. Many of us are also intimidated by it. You you talk about how you see that with your journalism students. What do you think we're or so afraid of you know? A lot of people think technology is magic and they think that people who write computer code are doing some kind of magic and that's thing that happens when when you don't understand what's going on so one of the things that I read about in the book is I write about empowerment I read about the way that everybody can can learn how computers work even though it seems kind of mystical. And it's not easy. I mean it's hard but you can Empower yourself to learn how these these things work and then also to say all right. This doesn't work the right way. And it's not my fault you know. A Lotta people tend to blame themselves when technology doesn't work and and honestly the problem is usually in the technology. It's in the code. It's an hardware it's in a developer not understanding how users would actually use the technology so want people to stop blaming themselves And of course in some ways technology companies kind of propagate that myth myth. I mean apple famously. Does talk about technologies as being magical right right and you know people do that for very human reasons they do you WanNa feel fancier than other people Especially people who are insecure of a real a vested interest in seeming seeming magical You know when you discuss artificial official intelligence in the book you talk about the difference between general and narrow I can you explain the difference sure so. Ai Is used. I used in a lot of different ways. It's very vague term and because it's so vague people tend to get confused about it so if we think about a as is a branch of computer science than we can think about kinds of AI. Well inside a I. You've got your General Ai. And you've got your narrow. Ai General Ai is is the kind of Hollywood stuff about robots taking over the world and it's totally imaginary though right and narrow. Ai Is what we have and narrow. Okay I is what is usually called machine learning so another confusing out there. Is that when people say I right now. What they usually mean is machine learning Now machine learning also really complicated because it sounds like there's little brain in the machine sure and it's not it's really high powered statistics yet. You call it a mathematical model for prediction. which doesn't sound nearly as sexy as they I I know right it sounds a it sounds kind of boring? I'm I'm Nora young in this time on spark a story from twenty eighteen. That was not at all boring. Meredith Bussard was breaking down techno chauvinism the belief the technology solves all problems. She's the author of artificial unintelligent. How computers misunderstand the world In one chapter you outline That the titanic disaster is commonly used to teach machine learning and how it speaks to a principle called unreasonable effectiveness business of data. It's a little bit complicated. But can you walk us through that sure. So the titanic. Disaster is a really good case for thinking about machine learning earning because almost everybody has heard of the titanic disaster. And when you picture the titanic in your head who do you picture Leonardo to posit. Yes yes right standing on the deck and then you also maybe think about the door and you think there was room for two people on that door widen get on the door. Why did he die? So you think about these things and it's an example. How Hollywood is in our our subconscious? Okay so we have confusion between the real titanic disaster and the Hollywood version of the titanic disaster. So it's also really good to talk about titanic in the context of AA. 'cause everybody in the costumes and the data is very widely available. And it's very clear so what you do when you do. A titanic. Exercise are lots and lots of these tutorials online. I highly recommend doing one of them. What you do is you take the titanic data you can open up an excel spreadsheet or something and you look at the different columns and you predict beast on the columns of data whether or not a particular passenger singer survived? So you have things like name and age and where. The person embarked and Where they travelling first class second class third class were they traveling with siblings or children or parents and how much they paid for their ticket? And so when you do the mathematical analysis it turns out. That passenger class is the most important thing that determines mathematically whether or not somebody who survived the titanic crush crash Okay so we build a model that takes in the data and And mixed prediction about whether or not a given passenger survived now the way that ah this modeling could be used is. We could absolutely take this model that we've constructed using this data and we could use it to judge other data that doesn't have the survived column in already we could use it to judge. Okay how much should I charge somebody who is going on a boat trip For travel insurance but if we use this model then we end up saying oh we'll rich. People are more likely to survive if there's a crash because their first class passengers ridge passengers so we can justify charging them less for insurance which is not fair So that happens that kind of inequality happens inside every model so every the time we try and use machine learning for a social problem. We ended up discriminating by default. So we need to examine that and we need to work against it so that we can make a better world for everybody So just to return to one of the things we were talking about before. It seems like. There's this disconnect between what computers are actually capable of what people think they can do. So how do we start to address that that disconnect you know that disconnect is very very real And I think one of the ways that we can start to address it is by taking things apart. One of the things I read about in the book is is and how fun it is to get an old computer and take it apart and look at how it's built and kind of trace out the wires and see that okay. This is the wire that plugs into the Monitor. And this is the place where you plug in the thing. That goes to the printer and all these wires go back to the power source. And here's the cord that goes to the power source like it's it's very empowering and it's also a really fun thing to do with a kid and so as you take things apart and put them back together you can learn how they work and and you can learn that. It's not magic you know there are lots of. I want to start with coding. I like starting with hardware because it's tactile but if you wanted to start with software there are lots of learn learn to code tutorials out there And it's a really good way of understanding okay when a software developer builds something like facebook. Well they all start by doing little tutorials and most people start with doing a very small program called Hello World which is an Omaha sh two I At one of the very first computer programs written in a popular programming language called C.. Which is one of the neat things about the book is that you actually walk? People through gruesome stuff which is an interesting approach to reading a book that's otherwise a narrative is that they're actually these sort of like little practical tutorials that we go through. Yeah it's a I wonder if I should If I should do this stylistically but when you're writing narrative about technology there are just these nuances to it that you you can't really understand unless you look at the code and so I thought all right I'll just put the code in there and we'll see how it goes. A lot of people haven't actually seen code before yeah you know like you'll see something flashing by the TV screen and it'll be like oh it's green on a black background. Looks very serious but you can read it just like you can read poetry Nor Young today I look at the unintended consequences of new technology. My guess is Meredith Broussard. Talking about her book artificial intelligence. How computers misunderstand the World I WANNA talk a bit about the culture culture of Silicon Valley in one of your critiques in? The book is one that I haven't actually heard before. which is that tech? Innovators are treated as these geniuses. who were encouraged to embrace these? You know big and his cases even patently ridiculous ideas. Can you talk a little bit about that. So this is a Culture argument and and usually people are arguing about the politics of free speech. But I get into arguments about mathematics computer science lance as well as the culture Inside math and computer science and the culture inside those disciplines has traditionally been hostile to women. And did you see that inside the academy so for example at Harvard. They don't have any senior professors in the math department. Who are women in twenty eighteen at Harvard University now? Computer Science is a descendant of mathematics and so- computer science has inherited all of the biases bases of math. And it's not about racism or sexism. It's about techno chauvinism. It's about feeling like the math is the most important thing and nothing else matters. But when you feel like that you ignore all of the other important social issues shoes so silicon valley has inherited this kind of bias. That was inside mathematics. And that's why we see things in Silicon Valley like like. Oh the code is the thing that matters. Let's move fast and break things let's disrupt and culture matters Social issues matter and and they matter just as much as solving mathematical and engineering problems Until I mean some of the things that you document are people being encouraged to was it. A staircase air case to space or something that people were. You know thinking about as just encouraged to kind of solve these problems that maybe you're not actually the world's pressing who's ooh technology probably should be addressing. Yeah that was a really fun Investigation so I looked into the history of technology. Oh Gee and I focus on actually my favorite tech Titan. WHO's a researcher? A scientist named Marvin Linski Largely considered the father of artificial intelligence and and mincy did all of these amazing things scientifically. He made his breakthroughs. He was a polymath. He was amazing on many levels but it also did some. I'm totally ridiculous things. So like he was friends with Arthur C Clarke who wrote to two thousand one and When Clark came up with the idea for how for the movie he called up his friend Linski to help make how realistic? It's one of the things that Clark in Minsk cooked up together. Was this idea of an elevator to outer space right. They were like. Oh Oh well We've really think that colonizing outer space is a great idea and we're going to need some sort of way to transport goods between our space station and the earth so we're just going to make a giant dumb waiter and yeah we think this is going to be a great idea. We we have this idea for our cable and we're GONNA look shoot a rocket into the air and you know the one end. Stay up in the air and we'll make this really strong cable that's going to be attached down there. And they spent six months and et heaven. Knows how much in government money on a space elevator right. You know somebody should have said like. Hey maybe don't build a space elevator and finally move over space. Shuttle NASA looking at building an elevator into space. The idea has been around for a while. But advances in science mean. It's moving closer to reality. Teams from around. The world are gearing up for you Right at one point in artificial intelligence that there are also limits. It's to what we should do with technology. So how do we determine what those limits should be. I think for a long time we have just given technologists to pass. We've said Oh. That sounds really cool. Let's do that because we have been entranced with the idea of innovation for the sake of innovation and we have been in the digital era era for a very very long time now and so we don't need to keep talking about digital innovation as if it's a new thing it is the new normal Okay so I think that we can I ask ourselves the question of what can we do. And what should we do mean we can look back to the atomic bomb for example. That's a really good example of something that we did because we could and then we realized afterward. Oh Hey maybe we shouldn't that right. And actually all the same people who were working on the Manhattan project then started working on early computing really. I didn't know that. Yeah near the end of the book point out that innovation is expensive and that most engineers work on maintaining existing products and not creating new ones. So what what does this tell us about the state of our digital world right now. The State of our digital world is crumbling. Things break all the time and we have to spend an enormous amount of effort vert fixing our technology so we have this idea that l.. If you do something technologically then you can just set it and forget it and this comes from from mathematics because in mathematics you discover a principal or you discover theorem and it just works forever. Works the same way. The PYTHAGOREAN Therrien Theorem doesn't change like it just works every time so computer science inherited this from mathematics. Inherited the idea that okay. We're going to write one programs gonNA run anywhere. You're going to run until the end of time. So that's what computer scientists try and do but when you start doing that for culture culture changes and it changes in part in response to the computer program that you wrote right so we are at the state now where we've been trying to set it and forget it for years in years and years and we've gotten rid of all the people who were in the jobs where they would do the things that support The information's being fed into the computer programs and we're surprised when nothing works In spite of that another critics in the book ultimately you say the. You're optimistic that we can find a path forward that uses technology to support democracy and human dignity. So what do you see the path forward. Well first of all I should say I I love technology I am not a technophobe. I'm not a Luddite. I look technology. I love building technology. I think I there are lots of amazing possibilities abilities. One of the paths forward that I see is I think that people can start to critique techno chauvinism when they see it so for example. There's a program that just came out called prayed. Paul which is a predictive policing program and it claims claims to be able to detect potential gang members based on I think social network analysis and this is absolutely not the kind of thing that people should be making because you can look at it and you can say oh this is going to disproportionately affect poor communities of color who are already under extreme surveillance and are already targeted by predictive policing methods ads. And maybe we don't need to make this because the science is not sound and the social impact is not one that we want Meredith it's a great book. Thanks so much for talking to us about it. Thank you very much. Meredith Bussard is the author of artificial unintelligent aginst. how Computers Misunderstand the world that interview was from May twenty eighteen? You know we've talked a lot on spark about the upside of creative disruption in and tech innovation but changing how things are done can how some unexpected and unwanted side effects. My Name is Phil Roy. Love as as an engineer in Ottawa. It's late Saturday night and Ottawa and driving to a party and I stop at a stop light and I'm just waiting for turn green and then I hear a noise thought somebody just hit my car or something like that or just thumped against it and then I looked back and I see two people sitting in the taxi by car Ice Cream I thought it was getting jacked. Then they just looked at me and laughed and they looked over. It means saying we're taking to the market and I looked back at them and I said I'm not your driver They looked rather confused They looked at their phones and they looked at me. And then they'd say anything they just got up and they slam the door and then another car came by. I was dressed that night and two and just a brown guy And as I looked over the same brown guy with a Tuque driving Uber Car I was I a little bit frazzled. And as low ticked off angry. But then I realized this is just a function of this technology. In the UBER APP. They give a a description of the car that had the person's driving including the license plate and also a tiny tiny pitcher of the driver's face. So I had to you. Don I was east Indian origin and I guess this guy was here so I think that's what happened posted this on facebook and originally. I didn't think about it too much. I contentious something interesting. That happened but I didn't realize that this has happened to my friends a lot where people actually told me that this kind of thing. I just happen to them. where their dave either had people jump in their car or they've jumped into a situation which they didn't think was actually a taxi situation? Some made friends from the drivers they accidentally jumps into a car of my friends. Basically hill down a cab in northern Uganda and when she arrived at your destination to try and pay the driver. Only at that moment was it wasn't a taxi and he didn't take anything. I think it was a great service but with this new kind. Social Interaction This kind of thing is down but it would have been nice for them to actually talk me. You're listening. I'm sorry. Sorry that would have been nice. Feel Roy Lopez shared his story with us back in two thousand fifteen more unintended consequences ahead. People can be edited out of the equation. Did you pump your own gas this week. Failure played at a solid bar or for us the self-checkout at the grocery store. Then you've been doing shadow work. It certainly means that there are fewer jobs and fewer interactions with people like cashiers. Here's in supermarkets. That may be trivial but they nonetheless they're part of the fabric that builds a community that those those short conversations that you have of the cashier and say You Know Laura. How are we going to be doing summer? You would you got a job after you graduate. I'll good good You know those little things really are are what make up a community ready and As they disappear it puts each into our own space where we're doing our shadow work. But we're doing it in a silo. We're doing quite alone. The unseen unpaid jobs that fill your day how we got here and why. It's bad for the economy breath. I'm Nora young young and this is spark it may give people satisfaction to write a negative yelp review. But what impact does it have on the employee earlier this year on spark we explored how the era of online reviews maybe turning customers into managers. If I could give this place negative stars I would the Snark Cook. Some online reviews for restaurants and other businesses can make you question whether the customer is always right. Now the review form yelp suggests reviewers can express personal smell opinions but not resort to speculation. The thing is customers don't always have enough insight into why there may have been an issue with the service in the first place customers is aren't always privy to certain situational factors may be the floors understaffed or maybe a something that you chuck up to so called. Bad Service is really situational national. Maybe this server at a horrible morning because her child is sick maybe she has a migraine. That's Joshua's sperber. He's professor of Political Science and History at Everett University University in Danville Virginia. He's the author of a new book called Consumer Management. In the Internet age how customers became managers in the modern workplace. There's a distinct unfairness. And almost a hyper empiricism to these types of reviews Joshua looked at the impact of review sites mainly yelp on the restaurant. Business through interviews. Wait staff and other employees managers and the reviewers themselves than the old days. When I worked in restaurants you would have typically or often A little wooden box and some index cards and a golf pencil and you would try to get customers to say. Hey how was your experience. And I don't think too. Many people filled these out. YELP has I would say Not only quantitatively but qualitatively exponentially expanded this type of activity on yelp customers. Go you WANNA website. Where they're really speaking to each other and there's a sort of illuminated publicity by having your comments on a widely read website? You could receive likes and you know various comments and positive feedback from your fellow. Reviewers on the website and they're trying to help one another spread as they put it a pay it forward Share information about restaurants. They like about good deals that sort of thing but in so doing that they invariably Comments on service and management read these reviews but the I emphasize that they read these reviews highly selectively. They don't respond to anything and everything. There's plenty and yet things prices for example menu items by contrast if there's a complaint about service involving perceived laziness inattentiveness S. A. Rudeness or anything like that managers Respond to those reviews. Not necessarily with the reviewer but they'll confront servers with those reviews invoking the notion of consumer sovereignty or the customer's always right right and they'll discipline the servers. Yeah let's dig into that a little bit. I mean when you interviewed many of them for your book. So what did they tell you about. The impact of yelp reviews on their work some servers. Say Well it's not really yelp that's the problem a bad manager. Sure or unfair customers the problem so there are some of that so this is certainly not unanimous but many servers have told me well we know that servers have have been fired for reviews. We know that surfers have been suspended for for bad reviews. And that makes you much more aware of the work you're doing. It adds stress address. This knowledge. That any customer is a potential yelp reviewer. I compare this a little bit to the old days so called mystery shoppers right but I argue. Are you that this actually is a lot more invasive because in those days and I based in part on working in restaurants in the nineties you kind of guess at who the mystery shopper might be if you've got a report. You're assuming that your restaurant is not due for another mystery shopper. Report for a while so you kind of relax. A little bit by contrast the awareness among many servers that every and any customer is a potential yelp reviewer as one server puts it quote unquote definitely add stress and Enhances dances and Zaidi Makes you work harder. Are there any examples that particularly stuck with you of where you know a manager has read something on yelp and and been able to identify a server and then kind of gone to them with with disciplinary procedures. One story that it was a CO worker. Told me this is in Manhattan and she said a Very angry five paragraph apparently so rather lengthy review was written complaining about server and the manager. suspended this this server for five days and apparently made her read quote unquote carefully read. the review and think about it so the sort of almost kind of punitive give response to these reviews and sometimes managers appear to be somewhat conscientious and confirming or trying to corroborate that a review is actually valid valid. So they'll for instance check if there's a complaint that a bartender was distracted on their smartphone. Some managers told me we'll check the restaurants or bars. security footage. My theory is that ultimately for many managers don't necessarily really care. ultimately about the reliability of a review insofar as it gives them a justification to increase worker productivity into punish one worker but more importantly I would say sort of scared scare the rest of the workers into working harder because they know they could be punished based on a negative yelp review do online reviews have some benefits for restaurant staff though like did positive reviews. Help them out at work. Well broadly. I would say it's a lose lose. So for example several on managers told me that. Oh we're much much more interested in using reviews carrots by the way with. I think one exception every manager or owner. I talked to very seriously reads. These reviews sometimes daily Even though there's quite a bit of ambivalence about yelp often a real disdain especially among smaller restaurants about yelp but nevertheless they read these reviews and some managers and owners go out of the way to say. Look Doc we're more interested in Those positive reviews so for example. I don't punish our servers for negative reviews but I will award preferable shifts right desired shifts to someone who gets implemented on Yelp of course the way that works is that server who is not getting mentioned on Yelp is you could say indirectly being being punished. One of the things that comes up in your work is that the managers seem to be sort of selectively responding to aspects of the YELP L. Perfume right if people are complaining about You know the food is too expensive or the portions are too small. The managers aren't necessarily acting on that they're acting on things like where the servers are to blame. Yeah that's a major point of the book. One of the themes of the book is that consumers are structurally weak within capitalism for variety of historic institutional institutional reasons so when I interviewed managers and owners and I said well what do you do if a yelp review complaints that the prices are too high and to quote one one owner of a small talion restaurant. But I think sort of is a stand in for the general attitude of owners and managers will. That's they're concerned. They should go to another restaurant. Ron Right and I don't think it's because the manager owner is nasty or greedy. I think it's because it's a cutthroat business and they're desperately trying to stay in business and they have competition competition and they know look most cost rent. Utilities are fixed right and they could only go so low their structurally in effect required to keep cheap prices at a certain level. Or they're going to be trouble as a business They just can't do much whether they want to or not about some complaints Chasing is another good example. What's housing so chasing refers to the practice in which You're at a restaurant having brunch with your friend and you're chatting and you just finished your meal and the server her car every few minutes seemingly showing up kind of awkwardly and maybe putting the check down again the table or anything else okay. Anything else and it makes you feel awkward. Like oh God but you resent that a little bit. Because you haven't talked to your friend and months and You just paid-for maybe an expensive meal regardless of that you feel entitled to sit and the Server for is making you feel uncomfortable. So that's a common complaint that customers have however manager. I've not spoken to any managers. Who would be concerned about that? Complaint they would say well that's our business model. If they don't like that they could go elsewhere. Maybe they should eat at home. But we're in a cutthroat business and we have to turn those tables over to keep the money coming in so we could pay our bills and make some profit but the significance of the fact that most complaints are not acted on illustrates that look this is not an example all of consumer power. Insofar as there's some consumer power it's a form of power that's contingent on managerial discretion The restaurant people have to eat like to the heat and don't like the work of fixing their own food at the job of being a hostess or a head wavered. Such persons are the restaurants direct contact with its patron. It is through them that the customers form their opinion their importance important. There's never underestimated by successful restaurant. But not all people like the same food served in the same way and at the same price therefore we have different types of restaurants offering different types of service to meet varying tape breath. This is spark. This is sparked listening to spurt spark. You're listening to spark from CBC radio. I'm Nora young today. A look at the unintended consequences of new technology earlier this year I spoke to Joshua sperber about online online reviews services like yelp and the unintended power that reviewers can have over employee wellbeing. You know one thing that strikes me about yelp is that on on the surface like airbnb the hosts get raided. But so do the guests. So if you're you know a pain in the neck people might choose not to rent to you but on yelp you can leave a mean review and and then still walk into any restaurant without a problem. I mean how much of an issue is the structure of Yelp in particular. I would argue it from two different directions actions on one hand I would say in a highly limited contingent way. It has empowered customers over workers it's enhanced worker exploitation in the old days CEO okay. of workers working the night shift and the night shift manager might not be on site. There was always been confrontations between workers and customers. So let's say there's a nasty confrontation. It probably ends at the restaurant. By contrast now customer leaves they had a maybe a confrontation with an overworked server and they could just go to yelp and then the next today the restaurant manager will read that and confront the worker about it so it reshapes the field of interaction. And you could have not only a unilateral but a retroactive sort of attack on a worker. That again is mediated through manager and the workers not really always necessarily equipped to respond to You've called this. And this is a quote surveillance that's performed by anonymous yelp reviewers. Can you elaborate on that. What do you consider these online reviews to be a kind of surveillance valence? Well I use the example of the mystery shopper. The old mystery shoppers. There's plenty of restaurants usually larger on business models employee. so-called mystery mystery shoppers. You know actual company employees who come in and pose as customers in effect spy on on the service and report on it. That's classics surveillance yelp irrespective of what the Yelp Er- wants right. When I asked you? Do you think servers are getting fired for your negative reviews. Almost all YELP or say no I doubt it. I don't see how that would work right the way I put it is the review a yelp reviewer writes becomes something else it almost goes through a metamorphosis it's in the hands of management now management is really in control once they get that review and like we said They use it selectively and the primary way they do use it functions actions as enhanced surveillance famously and service work management can't simply shadow their workers and they can't over manage because as if they over manage your going to discourage the sort of spontaneity and receptivity and creativity that defines so called good service work where the service worker really seems alive and responsive and attentive to the needs of the customer but specifically it's reflective of a major transformation in the economy toward a service economy starting really in the seventies days by incorporating customers into the management of workers. You achieve this sort of difficult goal Where now actually really? Your workers are being managed. But they're being managed in spaces and in ways that management can't reach They're being managed right as they're taking somebody's order right. Management can't be anywhere and everywhere but so I'd describe and others have used this term Yelp as providing sort of digital. It'll panopticon or workers are always being watched. And even if they're not always being watched they have reason to assume that they're likely being watched by someone one who is not just going to grumble and go home and complain about a supposed bad experience but is actually going to write it up on a website read by millions of people including their manager. The research that's been done on Yelp does indicate that YELP has actual negative effects on small businesses That's true yelp negative yelp reviews could predict whether a a restaurant is likely to go to business with that likely means is another business will take its place and the odds are awfully good Because no businesses an island that they'll engage in similar practices so in that sense Maybe it feels good for lack of a better word to vent on Yelp but MM structurally speaking. It's equivalent to playing whack a mole. We don't Yelp doesn't equip consumer certainly acting on an individual level or even collectively actively necessarily to fundamentally transform business realities that by design end up taking advantage and fleecing consumers yelp is is not gonNa do it for us even if it can't punish an individual business so I wouldn't want to suggest that yelp reviews would be scandalized and regretful. Well if they learned of what's happening with the reviews maybe some would be but I think plenty of it. Well let's tough they. They were rude. That's not my fault. I wonder if maybe this came out in in your interviews. Where any of the servers on the lookout to see if they could spot potential you offer viewers in the way they might have been on the lookout for mystery shoppers? I well I would go back to what reviewers of told me some said. They'll very conspicuously check in on yelp once they sit down because they want a server to see Checking in on Yelp one they some presume. They'll get perks from management so some sort of comped dessert. Or some drink or something like that but they assume they're going to get better service or to quote unquote treated well. If the server sees them on yelp alternately some reviewers said no they tried to keep it a secret because they want experience. The restaurant just like a normal person would are just like anyone else would so. There's a sort of assumption there that by virtue of being a yelp review or they're not like anybody else thor's sort of you know this food critic Incognito sorta hidden power Joshua super interesting research. Thanks for talking to us about it was my pleasure thank you very much. Joshua's SPERBER is the author of consumer management in the Internet age. How customers became managers in the modern workplace Pet peeve well to getting to be honest have a library of pet peeves alphabetize stored in a series of banker's boxes but one of those pieces involves supermarkets specifically the option to scan and bag your own own groceries. Why would I do that? Why would I contribute my labor for free so the store can employ fewer cashiers? Think about what you consider work. Maybe it's the work you do to earn a living or maybe the many jobs you do to take care of things at home but what about all the other unpaid tasks that are part of your daily routine. The shadow work back in two thousand fifteen. I spoke to Craig Lambert. He's the author of shadow work. The unpaid unseen jobs that that failure day we'll shadow. Work is all of these unpaid jobs that we are now getting to do like pumping our own gasoline building. Our own furniture out out of Ikea's kits scanning our own groceries bag their own groceries Becoming our own travel agents online Becoming our own car rental. Oh agents Zipcar there's Many many many of them and is a large phenomenon going on of businesses and organizations sort of offloading voting these tasks onto the consumer. Craig adopted the term from the nineteen eighty-one shadow work by philosopher and social critic. Yvonne Illitch for Illitch Shadow work included all the unpaid labor in a wage based economy and create. Believes that for many reasons were moving into a new era of shadow work today. There are several different causes that moved us towards the era of shadow work which I predict will also continue and even increase One of them has been technology. The way that the Internet has opened up lots of possibilities by sharing information so broadly for example when you Have travel all information on websites like EXPEDIA OR KAYAK DOT com available to every customer. That cuts travel agents out of the equation In the experience of many consumers. They'll say I can go online and book my own flight in my own hotel. I can do this with my own resources. So do I need pay a commission to a travel agent. Now in fact travel agents do have certain other options that we don't have as consumers but the general perception is that we can take their place and technology has made a lot of this possible. Are there other centers in which automation has played a role in the creation of shadow. Work absolutely the evolution of the Self Service Service. Petrol pump the the which was invented In a few places but significantly in Canada in the late forties has made it easier and easier for consumers to pump their own gasoline. It wasn't quite as convenient at the beginning. But now you can pay at the pump with credit card. You won't slop any gasoline lien on your shoes and You can do this in about two minutes without consulting anyone at the gas station so those people are out of jobs. So that's one of the things about shadow work is it does take human beings out of the commercial transaction. Yeah and what effect does that have on entry level jobs in particular a a lot of jobs that are done in this way by consumers are once requires zero training that you can teach yourself the pump your own gas in about a minute or two so clearly. They are jobs that have normally been done by untrained people or very little train people and so. That's one of the concerns concerns about shadow work. Is that these entry jobs like supermarket. Cashier are disappearing the ATM at the Bank can Make a teller's job obsolete to some degree my own dad was a bank teller and he He understood this very well. So how do you become a bank teller L. or if the team has taken that job it's a concerning thing that the shadow work is eliminating those entry level jobs because I say in my book that those are the the sidewalk of main street that the first step up from the street Into the world of employment. We might complain about this kind of thing is consumers or complain about the Economic impact of it. But aren't we really partly to blame for this ourselves and we want everything to be cheaper. That's why we assemble our own furniture and why we do our own research research by online. Yes there is a certain amount of that We would like everything at the lowest costs and we don't really calculate our own hourly rate into the equation when we're when we're doing these things We forget that we're putting in the time or we don't mind putting in the time if you go to a salad bar you make your own salad and one of the things that you do have is you have a your way you can put exactly the ingredients in the salad that you want. It's their choice but on the other hand it means you are doing a job. Used to be done by a chef and instead of sitting at the table with your family or friends talking you are up the salad bar making your salad right. So there are there are trade-offs and one thing I hope that shadow work The book is able to do is to make people aware of the trade offs that they are Endorsing when they do these jobs themselves but you know when you look at things like Online platforms like social networks. For instance one one thing we've learned is that people in some cases at least like to contribute that free labor. I mean no one makes people write reviews on trip advisor. They do it because they want to do so. Is there a sense in which people find shadow work. Satisfying there certainly is. There are studies. One was done by Michael Norton colleagues at Harvard Business. The school showed that when people make something themselves like an eye Kia bookshelf They they evaluated more highly and they take a good deal of satisfaction in creating their own bookshelf. Even if it's not quite as well constructed as the one they might have bought in the store. Yeah I'm Nora Young. In the spark for wonder why we call it service economy when it's really a self service economy right now. You're listening to an an interview with Craig. Lambert all about the unpaid shadow work. The dogs our daily lives. You say another other causes. This trend is The democratization of expertise. So can you explain how that's creating more shadow work. Well it shows that shadow work doesn't as an only happen at the entry level but even high levels of skill and training lawyers You can go and download your own. wills contracts contracts legal forms filled out yourself and maybe bring it to the lawyer for some light learning To make sure it's correct and all the ts across the periods in place. How do you think shadow work is changing the way we think about our time or the way we value our time I have thought about does a lot in the last chapter of my book is called the twilight of Leisure and in it I talked about the fact that leisure is a subject of I've Predation now almost the there is no lobby for leisure In in the capital of the the world the leisure is by definition unorganized time. That's what makes it leisure. However there are large institutions there are businesses? There are there. nonprofits is there are schools hospitals organizations of all kinds have designs on your leisure they would like to convert that unorganized time into Organiz time and make things productive I put quotes around that productive in the economic sense in that somehow involves making money or spending money either producing or consuming zooming and there are. It's easy to forget. There are a lot of things we can do. That are free and that our leisure that don't have to involve buying a ticket or paying a cable. TV Bill but they are things like taking a walk in the forest or wilderness. Area throwing a baseball with our son or daughter there. There are many many things that are a great deal on. That don't cost anything at all. And Leisure is being eroded by a number of forces show work is one of the major ones. I think we don't often Value Our free time. Highly Enough Maybe time is starting to lose the race with money in terms of what we value but in my view time is infinitely viable. It's the one most precious resource any of us has and money is wonderful as it is and it's great great to have money. Nonetheless is finite in its value and we are beginning. I think to lose sight of the fact that we're trading off something of infinite value for something whose value is actually quite limited. Besides time. What else do you think shadow work is taking away from US shadow work? Maybe as we were noting taking away certain kinds of jobs It in many cases is taking away some freedom of choice because there are situations situations when we used to have a choice in that choices eroding and in the case of the gasoline station It can be fairly hard to find a full service station to to have anyone pumped the gasoline for you. If that is your preference the advent of shadow work maybe bringing us into a world where it is a self service world throughout and it's a question of do it yourself or won't get done. It may be the only option there in Europe. There are train stations that are completely automated. There's no human being that ought to sell you a ticket all done by kiosks and If you go into those stations you'd better be able to deal with kiosks. So the elderly people with various disabilities Those who can't cope very well with touch screens and the digital technology involve Can actually be sidelined by I situation where there is no other option. There's no freedom of choice There is only one option. Which is doing that shadow work? Yeah it kind of makes you wonder about social connection into. I mean it's more automated literally possible to go through your entire day without needing to have a conversation with somebody. That's one of the downsides of shadow work is that people can be edited out of the equation it certainly means that there are fewer jobs and fewer interactions with people like cashiers and supermarkets that may be trivial but they they nonetheless part of the fabric that builds a community that those those short conversations that you have of the cashier INSA- Laura how are you going to be doing summer. You got a job after you graduate. Well I'll good good those little things Really are what. Make hiccups a community in As they disappear kind of atomised us It puts us Each into our own space where we're doing our shadow work. But we're doing it in a silo. We're doing quite alone crates. A thought provoking read. Thanks so much for talking to us. It's been our pleasure Craig Lambert. What is the author of shadow work? The unpaid unseen jobs. That fill your day. That was an interview from October. Twenty fifth you've been listening to a special episode of spark. The show was made by Michelle Parisi Kent Kaufman Adam. Killick astier Emmy nor young and by Meredith Bussard Joshua Sperber and Craig Lambert go to CBC DOT CA slash spark to subscribe to the podcast or download the CBC. Listen App you can also find us on facebook twitter where we are spark. CBC Nor Young. Talk to you soon. Take for more C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.

Yelp YELP Nora young Meredith Bussard yelp Craig Lambert facebook Meredith scientist Joshua Manhattan CBC Glennbeck Dot Org Sybil Andrews Andrews Bader Calgary official
Digital Transformation in the NGO Sector; Part One

Mission Daily

48:23 min | 1 year ago

Digital Transformation in the NGO Sector; Part One

"Hey guys we have a new giveaway this week. Thanks to our partner beta. We will be giving away. The luxembourg weighted blanket. Did you know that scientifically proven that weighted blankets can cause chemical changes ages in your body to help you relax and sleep better by increasing serotonin and melatonin the luxembourg to blink it helps you sleep better and gives you enhanced mood. It also decreases cortisol whereas all of us which helps to reduce stress anxiety. We're giving away five of these way to blink. It's this week to our listeners. All you have to do is enter the giveaway at w._w._w. View dot michigan dot o._r._g. Slash giveaway and we will be giving away. Five of these two are lucky listeners <music> welcome to mission daily today. We have a special episode as part of a two part series. Ian sits down with philanthropy and tech leaders to discuss thus why digital technology is critical for nonprofits to make a greater impact at the roundtable. We are joined by aaron bottle filter executive director of octa for good jane mesic senior director of microsoft apiece brian breckenridge executive director of box dot org and peggy duvet senior director of social impact at oracle net. That's sweet on this part. One episode the group dives deep into the importance of nonprofits speeding up their digital transformation so they may become more effective and deliver more impact into the future commission daily. I mean phase on chief content officer here emission dot org and we have in studio quite the roundtable for our listeners so excited to share this. We're gonna talking about philanthropy and tech and what tech leaders can do and what they are doing now. We're gonna do a little around the horn introduce everybody for our listeners who wants to ago. I <hes> i'm jay mesic. I'm a senior director microsoft philanthropies. I lead our tech for social impact philanthropy across nonprofits and u._n. Awesome thanks brian your next brian breckenridge executive director of embedded social enterprise at box inc called box dot org aaron aaron auto filter. I lead octa good which is the social impact arm of octa and peggy peggy <unk> senior director of adora conaty social impact and khalid a social impact <unk>. I want to start out by recognizing that net. Hope is kind of what brought us all the common thread that brought us together today brank you share more about net hope and and how you got involved in the first place yeah net hopes probably sixteen or seventeen years old got started on a kitchen table here in silicon valley with cisco and microsoft execs and a few folks that said it's probably time for silicon valley to really team up more with the n._g._o. World as a as the newly inbound executive director that helped found box dot org. We realized about six years ago that net hope was a tremendous partner for us to <hes> to start to have an impact on the way that the world's largest ngos which move about sixty percent of the eight around the world that are members of net hope would be a great partner for us and help us can drive value to their members so we started our our can ship within tim bus six years ago and so what is the center for digital nonprofit enough aaron you wanna take that yeah sure so you know as brian said net hope had been doing what it was doing for a long time in almost twenty years they really sat at the intersection of global ngos <hes> doing very important work in very hard to reach places and the tech sector with the tools and expertise technology to help accelerate that work the challenges. You really need an intermediary. That's gonna translate in both directions for that work to be effective effective and that's really what net hope had done for a long time <hes> what they realized a few years ago doing that work <hes> doing things like bringing connectivity to the last mile of for humanitarian aid needed to get delivered working disaster response to set up wi fi and power what they what they learn and all of that work was that the n._g._o. Sector more broadly was falling falling behind when it comes to technology <hes> and the gap was getting greater and greater and it was a huge risk to the world quite frankly when you think about the fact that <hes> as brian said sixty percent of the world's aid is delivered by the fifty seven or so net hope member ngos organizations like oxfam unicef f._c. The children so they decided that it was time to take a different approach. <hes> and <hes> came up with what is now called the center for the digital nonprofit which is <hes> a new the effort that still works at that intersection of the tech sector and n._g._o. Sector but is really focused on long term digital transformation for nonprofits and ngos to accelerate elevate their use of technology and accelerate their missions so we all at this table have jumped on as partners of that effort because for each of us we believe very strongly that that is tremendously important and very aligned with where we believe we can help. It's the classic adage that every company is a technology company now and kind of to take that further. It's like every free ngo is now a technology company on that and if you don't kind of steer into that then <hes> it's not going to be great for forever ruined the world quite literally jane any thoughts yeah. No i think <hes> jumping on what aaron said the creation center digital <hes> digital nonprofit really really leapfrogged what what hope was doing you know they were. They were that bridge to bring technology and processes and efficiencies to these large ngos <hes> and the c._d._n. Really proactively change that strategy to focus broadband digital transformation and focus on the people the processes and the technology allergy as well as putting the beneficiary or their client at the center of that and i think that was a big transformation in that hope as well as what brought us together in terms terms of how do we drive greater social impact not just you know helping printers work at these nonprofits but really transform how these organizations are supporting their beneficiaries cherries and the reach they can have an impact have been pay you. What are some of those success stories that we've seen so far i think for the sector arizona thing i guess would agree is <hes>. We've learned leaders in own limitations. We will represent big tech companies that have leading practices that help you know a nonprofit you stick nausea for social change but i think what this consortium and collaboration has brought us is really this more collaborative report which is more bottom-up <hes> which is yes we we have leading practices and we know what was best but we also know that when we on the ground and we understand what people do this is what we twenty chechen accelerate that the the mission of all those orders so i think that's the the biggest impact we've had so far and there's so much ahead of us but i think pretty power we we had a chance to join some of the visual gathering fournette hope and it was amazing to see lack locally how you know you have global vision but yet you have to localize it locally to make it happen and they truly making that happen. I would just say that that as the center for the digital prophets starts to to further mature and actualize in its programming approach which i i really admire that it's a very academic approach to study the industry to help those sixty members plot where they were in their digital transformation with really clear terms in the people process and technology domains and then to drive some programming in very consultative work in a pass that keeping not only the beneficiary officially of those sixty organizations but truly the beneficiary on the receiving end of their programs on the ground <hes> <hes> to have that consciousness that the beneficiary was actually a step past asked at the n._g._o. But actually the people they're serving was really great so that academic approach to be followed by action was for me getting at this historic challenge of the ngos being held back versus just kind of out there solving symptoms. They're trying to make a systemic and thus scalable approach that a lot of other companies can come in on right and not just not just their members not just the fifty eighty seven members but to take the learnings and the tools and the assessments and all of that and make that broadly availability sector. I think we should be a five million organization. Zapping scale of impact that net hope can have the centers is pretty exponential. I i would add on that as well. I completely agree that the the scale and the impact is vast and it's really exciting. I also think that something unique to net hope and other intermediary like them is that because it's a community because it's a community sitting at the center of different different sectors <hes> it affords us tremendous opportunities to build relationships and to learn with individual organizations <hes> i got to actually <hes> go to uganda earlier earlier this year as a guest of net hope and tour some of the work and see some of the work that was being done in a refugee camps in northern uganda and <unk> aid being delivered by not hope organizations. I got to actually see octaves technology being used on the outskirts of a refugee camp by one of our nonprofit customers and when you take that back into to your organization and you share that and you show the picture of the octa log in page donna <hes> it does something to really communicate the the impact of what we're doing and what it can do <hes> and and again i think working through collaborations and through these relationship based kinds of partnerships is a huge opportunity to do more of that and to feed more of that back into our companies and ultimately invest more in this work tangibly the technology is becoming coming more interoperable and so for the programming that we have in leveraging these assets of big tack or mid sized growing tech or small tech. That's growing toward the needs of the sector in a credible way is really exciting to see. It's funny we <hes> with our network shows we reach over one hundred and thirty countries and <hes> we get feedback from people all all the time and one of the things that so interesting is how the consumer technology is going to remain consistent right. It's going going to be onward and upward and like that. The digital expectation <hes> you know the people who are listening to podcast like however they can do them for example and then just be able to communicate with us in real time you know and send like we did a you know. We did a live episode and we had people from like all these all these countries sharing. Oh hey this is how you know. This stuff has has helped and i think no from the technology standpoint. I think sometimes leaders might forget that the people want technology on the grounds but light if the organization that supporting to bring water whatever it is don't have equivalent technology <hes> or better technology than you're just going to be less operational and really all these organizations need to go through a digital transformation of some kind. Everyone is going through on. Its obviously buzzword word. I'm curious. What do these digital transformation look like for ngos like is they're kind of like a before and after picture here of what's going on on what we've noticed with oricon today. We just had a report that came out yesterday. On connecting dollars to come to outcomes is whether you helping the tiny charities that helped you know often edging in the philippines or the world vision which is a member and also not perfect nets with customer mark is when they start being able to present the outcome of that technology and the impact to the leadership then there's more investment and then you can truly accelerating packed. I think what we've seen through. Our reports is leaders. <hes> you know in nonprofits <hes> assist the value of measuring accompanying packed the problem is they're not equipped. I think we've noticed it was thirty. Two percent another equipped to <hes> to basically drive that suffering as digital transformation and i'm talking italy too small too big. I used to be an executive director. Tiny puff barrier was two million <hes> but you know having a in an accounting system having a ceram was still needed to be able to track and measure so that transparency needed to drive decision making as well oh i mean. Can you imagine if sandhill row here. Just a few streets from us didn't have visibility into the impact that their investor or angel dollars were having on the enterprises that they were helping scale and so the n._g._o. Community now able to articulate through technology with in a transparent way what's happening in their work and what impact is in fact being had is a vital part of that getting the the capacity and the support that they need from from folks like us and frankly it's organizations that have brought us together in a really like radically collaborative way with this this coalition in this group to not assume that from redmond from silicon valley we know what's needed by that beneficiary being served by that ngo on the ground and so two again have that perspective and get this lens that makes makes the solutions to get that water to that place in that you were talking about is done in a credible way but not done from the ivory tower perspective at it should just be easy yeah and that also ties is back to the transparency of how did that happen. How did that water and that program get. Maybe more efficient or maybe more effective and then how is that then communicated back to the funder to within skill that program it's interesting so i was in the in worked for the government for a long time in the military and and i think i don't actually know this for a fact but i'm pretty sure box. It's now <hes> working with u._s. Army so we are the right i thought so but it's one of those things where like you take something like cloud storage like clebration insecurity in all those kind of like important facets. You'll get something like that where it's like if you're an ngo using pen and paper like you have no hope to be able to show show the impact that you're really doing approved the things that you are doing on the ground like you just have no hope you have no opportunity to perfect example and quote of our international rescue committee has a number of office is doing economic development work in the field and they had reims in rooms and buildings full of paper invoices that their funders required they see so in a project that they pursued digitized that that paperwork which again were just invoices to prove to the funder that they were in fact implementing programs and utilizing the money money for the right thing as they digitized that not only was the visibility <hes> faster for what was happening in the in the in that invoicing area to get more funding but the program itself became more efficient efficient between new york and cordova and the other four places that need to communicate so these stories are very real accelerating impact accelerating the ability for the sector to get more support to do more of what it does best and i think out add to that to that you know again i was. I was applauding paper documents for the us army in two thousand and thirteen agree. This isn't one hundred years ago right. Now is essentially very recently and u._s. Army has quite a bit more money than the average ngo and so and it's things like that that i think people kind of just forget you take for example. We've had a bunch of your ceos on our i._t. Visionary show <hes> and how brilliantly smart a lot of these i t. leaders and technologists are in large companies. The average india ngo doesn't have a c._i._o. That is you know leading digital transformation nations someone that actually owns that i'm curious like how do how do we allow or create a situation where if you don't have that type the head count if you don't have those type of leaders on the ground necessarily to do a digital transformation. How do we kind of like approximate that sort of thing or you know like cities having thank. C._i._o.'s is a new thing for example. I mean this is like so obvious now in retrospect but i'm just curious like what are you all seeing on the ground. I would say a couple things on what what we're seeing being. The first is that again looking at intermediaries like net hope other organizations like tech soup that sit at the center of tech and <hes> a nonprofit are doing a lot of work to try and solve that issue to try and gather the insights to try and pilot things with organizations that do have c._i._o.'s house right that can invest in that can share with they know <hes> to benefit others. That's absolutely a vision of what net hope is trying to do and tech soup another one doing that for at a much larger scale they they they have over a million nonprofits around the world that are that are members of tech soup so i think that's one thing i think intermediaries are important. I think investing in intermediaries important to salute basically the centerpiece of of of october philanthropic strategy girvan this something years and what do you mean by intermediaries the way i would describe it as ecosystems that sit at the intersection of of in this case nonprofits in technology so instead of an organization or company making grants one by one to organizations to maybe help them with technology we can make one grant to an organization that has the leverage in the reach and the network to serve in that hopes case fifty seven and tech soups case over a million and have have an outsized impact hopefully on on what we're able to drive to those organization recognizing that i mean digital transformation journey right and it starts in different places for different organizations. Small guys are really just trying to get stable insecure systems and platforms you know and then you move in. It's it's not something you leapfrog. Even though cloud is amazing has great opportunity in the sector <hes> you still have this journey and so how do you help folks in this journey. Nonprofits are still trying to utilize technology -nology that was built for enterprise for profit companies sources. <hes> you know things that were built for the nonprofits themselves or or helping bridge that and then they don't have the capacity even the large nonprofits the underside enterprise nonprofits are not well funded we could talk about maybe the funding issue and yeah overhead issue there <hes> and then the small nonprofits don't have i._t. Staff they have the accidental techie. It's the person who sits closest to the printer is or the social media person is is there technologists so recognizing that investing in these intermediaries that can add scale support organizations is super super important and for us to also go in depth with some of our strategic partners is important as well and showcase. I would just throw in that the that the nonprofit technology enterprise network also about three hundred different technologies are surrounding the many hundreds of thousands of organizations that their content reaches is another intermediary your listeners to check out as well and these are these are they're all very well proven with network tech zubin and ten organizations that have helped the multiply the impact of our programmes a capacity building group in the tech sector dramatically way i would just add on the dimension so making philanthropic investments in these ecosystems is important but it's also like there's a lot we can do within our own companies to to address the issue of nonprofit tech capacity right so all of us donate and discount our technologies for nonprofits in some way <hes> that helps tremendously and this lead just cross some of those barriers of of cost right and justification another. I think probably more important we can help us to get our employees and our in-house expertise not sort of wrapped around these organizations and i was gonna actually turn it to peggy because they do something absolutely amazing in this area and i'll start by. I was on the other side running charity and i can tell you overwhelming it was when people come to see us technology and use that one because my board was brute ticky from the area and i <hes> so what was very appealing for me very sweet ease they intentionally from day one from the moment nitwit was in edison section with gobert a founder it was about building the capacity and it's about helping the sector as a whole so we yes we care about technology and wanna take you to drive chant and help a nonprofit it does sound a price accelerate the mission but how do we build capacity to those orcs and ha- delivered to your asset so when we think of all of you agrees right within over technology with people thinking about knowledge so we spend a lot of effort through swiftly bono and sweet capacity programs in our where we match our employees we's charities charities to basically learn about the technology and we've also pushed that even more to what it's all business functions. We have marketing employees that know about marketing and they can help yep so it goes back to us so what brings us to the table is. I love what you say about enabling capacity. That's really what we spend a lover a way i write. We enabled her employees. I'm pleased to give back yeah. Let's say peg it to your point their mental model wise like you look at the assets of a of a corporation and specifically technology corporation their superpowers typically their platform or technology or their suite of technology and their people but there's also the institutional assets like office space like brand influence. I mean you can imagine a voice exactly right. If if we're able to elevate organizations doing important work that others can jump on board where winning and i would say also that for the mental model of the other asset of the company being your customers and the admins of their technology you can imagine what unleashing that can mean as well so people that are raving fans about are unique technologies where frankly have already put together the four technologies represented in this podcast to have those customers in the edmonds of those teams in our customer base <hes> against against these challenges that are out there that technology can help solve or build capacity is also important so we can't can't forget that asset near like so for example were <hes> michigan small company but but <hes> like we're part of the sales one program like we we from the essentially from the founding of the company did that. I think that there's a lot of companies out there big and small small that want to figure out a way to do something but they're kind of in that like what should i be doing and then if they're a big company and they are maybe doing something they're like like. Are we doing the right stuff. Are we doing the wrong stuff. You know are we kind of swimming in circles. So i'm curious you know from a funding perspective for for the companies that are trying to make sure that they're you know dollars or are tracked that they have impact <hes> that it's like you know authentic authentic to the to the organization to do you know certain things you know if you're wag for example you know you're gonna be working. A lot of of you know <hes> we. We interviewed them talking a lot about what they do and stuff like that. I'm curious like when it comes to organizations that are thinking about <hes> how can they they do more like what what are some best practices there. I'll start by saying. I think you hit it on the head like the it has to be. It has to be so tightly aligned to your business strategy that no one whatever say oh gosh. Why are they doing that or what's the impact of that. Is that really what they should be doing with those sources so if you're at the beginning of the journey the easier in some ways right really look at where your company isn't where it's going what your core assets are. What makes you unique sometimes. It's your technology sometimes. Sometimes it's your employees. Sometimes it's the space work in sometimes it's geography or in like could be any of those things but i think it has to start with that and it has to really be an extension of your company's mission. One of the things like for example bank of america does at be <hes> bank stadium in charlotte. Is that all of their ads around like veteran employees employees right. It's like they could do anything with that ad space but it's all to highlight the military veterans work at the company because they have a really strong you know veteran presence. It's things like that where it's like. I think the smart companies kind of like make one plus one equal three sort of thing where you know to your point if you have a you know if you have physical locations if you have let's say a thousand thousand physical locations if you're whatever like a seven eleven or something like that for example like thinking about how much real estate pardon the pun but like digital real estate that you have <hes> but also physical real estate that you could use those things to your advantage. No that's a great point and i think what aren't jumping off with aaron said is it's so important to start with that focus casse and be focused trying to be everything to everybody is not necessarily a recipe for success. Yes you can have breadth programming and i think we all here on the table. Have breadth programming mang that nonprofits can come get software for microsoft any time but when you do your depth where you're aligning your key assets of your cash your tech your expertise ace your voice you wanna do that in a way that's really focused and can drive significant impact because that's where you start getting benefit back to the company in terms of being in having these great human stories showcasing your technology and big ways you y- focus when you go death and if you could do breadth that's that's also pretty again and i think more and more you're seeing these programs that are that are broad and deep go into areas that that are are mapped. Well not just to capacity of an organization but where it's passion lies is and when those intersect and with headlines you start to see even more energy around these things if they're topics that people are in fact thinking about and talking about we talk a lot about about the stakeholders of the embedded ed social enterprise box dot org being threefold. It's communities. I we serve their win. A through nonprofit enablement first second is that the employees that we're transforming to be involved in these engagements in third is is the company itself in the benefit that it gets but we really do take those three stakeholders and i would just say quickly that the pledge one percent <hes> movement that you'd suggested it is now nine thousand organzation strong and becoming a community of practice more than just a kind of a a fly by thing and there's many of us who helped start that that that movement along time ago that knew that a group of builders that kind of put that where it is needed to teach others so that people can get to this work a lot sooner than profitability or a lot sooner than their fiftieth employ employ for example or the other excuses that at founders make over and over woods also daunting right like i remember having the conversation with chatting stephanie my co-founders about this about like we have literally no money so we can't give that but you know like we're already doing certain things in the community are for us our retrial. We're reaching three million people month and so like there's things that we do have that we could you know put some <hes> capacity or put some organization around be like hell is just be a little bit more thoughtful about how we do it and then you can kind of figure out like one of the things that we did. You know there is a guy who's in the military was kind of like wrongfully convicted and didn't have money to pay for legal fees and <hes> like something like that where it's like. It was a hyper targeted the thing. We knew that we wanted to support this. It was really cool. 'cause and you know we wanna do that like another one. You know we had a friend does this. <hes> special needs camp camp that they go into the santa cruz mountains and they need money to bring you know fly the moms out and the kids out from chicago and it's like that was something like it's in our backyard. They it hang out in the studio. Deuce impact stuff whatever and it's like right there like those things that were like easy wins for us to get to as a super small organization but we had to have the the framework in place to be like we know we want to make a difference and we don't know what opportunities are gonna come our way but we have like something that we can figure out around that so that's the key i think is is that it's the commitment that actually is the most important thing authentic commitment i because you don't know all all the things it's overwhelming this stuff gets really complicated really fast when you talk about donating software and you talk about setting up charitable vehicles and setting aside equity liangyu super complicated located but if you make that commitment as an organization and you embedded and your leadership from the very top speaks to it it sends a signal and get sticky in the organizational culture and comes culture we we saw that at octa i mean founder our co-founders you know took the pledge and boldly sort of <unk> stated that on stage in front of thousands of our customers and employees before it was kind of all figured out but we've built over time you know systematically <hes> and we could have never predicted that we would have found net hope or the center for the digital salad or collaboration with folks. We didn't know at the time but that commitment that signal. Oh is is so powerful. Yeah we talked with freddie said just right over there and we talked about it when he was here in syria. You know it's funny though i it's an important point it's like i think a lot of organizations don't necessarily know that or they might know this from a sales perspective like winds beget wins. We always talk about that. At ah. The mission is like once you have a win. It's like it's a lot easier to evangelize that within the team like hey we actually did something and it's it's like we can do more of something if you all want to do more of something and if you don't then it gets exciting right when the the things that are motivating and inspiring the employees to execute their mission in writing code or selling something or something else but no there's there's an elevated purpose for making that happen or making that task possible so you can imagine if you're a b. to c. App you work with another partner and add around up for good function in the checkout process totally assumed from the beginning of your engineering thinking you could just say we could probably once we start to get customers raise millions of dollars through a simple roundup capability at the shopping cart or like even yesterday our employees most of which are skewing younger <hes> five hundred and fifty of them donated an average average of fifty dollars. We raised you know twenty plus but two thousand backpacks packed them during an all hands meeting around the world so again. It wasn't like we had twenty k. Philanthropic perfect budget sitting around people made that happen in a grassroots way but they were inspired by the activity that was showcased by an employee atlanta who did that in his basement. His family put together pretend backpacks while we did three thousand yesterday around the world and was really kind of <hes> a cultural rally for the company globally on something that again didn't have budget assigned signed at the beginning of the year so that we can't do that was never even something we we entertained if i could add something to you odin series. I think you're expressing the fact that remember. We're all committee like a company's employees. It's a committee of employees nor kissed. Committees are partners customers employees at sometimes i think we had four by trying to lead but just by listening and leading enabling them to do <hes> you know just bringing communities together tell you what they want and they'll make it happen and you talk about that queen queen. I talk about story. You know that wants to read. That's impairing in and it's a it's a rolling effect. When you feel good you want others to feel good and also i was thinking about some of them. If i had known when i started when i joined konate sweet is really like you said you're lying and the study was admission mission and business right also the matrix. I find it very powerful. You know as we look as swing by metrics to align them with the business because it's like you know if you go if i go to quebec back and speak my friends from france. It's a little different but if i'm going to start using the local language you'll pay attention to me so i think as i reflect on what we talking about on this table it's about aligning mission and the strategy but also aligning matrix and enabling others because a lot of the work is empower them just to jump off the beginning inning journey and the focus in in some of the models that we hear and you'll talk to later is is how do you also create the social business model to support the broader nonprofit community itself so <hes> and this rethinking that we did a couple of years ago is that we found okay. Nonprofits are using technology. That's not made for them. They don't have the capacity and they need to be treated like world class customers that like they are and philanthropy can only go so far we love philanthropy but can only go so far so wh- what we did is that's were tech for social impact was actually formed to think through that business model or you can bring your your donations your capacity building programs along with right-sized and and appropriate discounting licensing models for nonprofits solutions built and made for nonprofits and how do you rally more services and capacity acidy building from your our corporate partners to deliver that so that's where we brought together and and it's also a social business model way where the the funding once it gets above a contribution margin that money's ring-fence to be reinvested into those solutions reinvested into our philanthropy so it's it's sustainable. It's long term and it's scalable. Well <hes> in a two years. It's been really really successful. Our dream is that this model actually gets into the whole company and becomes a part of what every company business business tries to do not just isolated in a nonprofit segment but for now we've seen tremendous growth and the impact that that we can have in in our partners can have through a model like this and maybe you guys can speak to you for sure i very intentionally introduced myself as a as a director of an embedded social enterprise because we very much you are that and so to operate under the chief operating officer and they go to market part of the company that has influence over product and influence over customer satisfaction in the metrics does that make customer successful is is very much design and then when when nonprofits are able to make a very heavily discounted investment in what we do as our core competency we're going to redirect tactic percentage of what they contribute to us back into these capacity building programs call it a virtuous growing virtuous circle investment and so just two out of the gate realize that nonprofits should in fact be considered customers that you learn from and that you are ready to serve and support is a very easy decision to make early especially when it's a five million organization multi trillion dollar segment in the world make no mistake like commercial purpose and community purpose or community benefit or mission are being woven and more closely together than ever before and that new generation way of embedding social impact into a business model instead of an afterthought like an h._r. Department or philanthropy department or something down the hall that never really talks to the business. You're really doing a disservice to scale of the impact we can have yeah. I think that the scale piece is really critical and this is where like why this this roundtable is technology leader philanthropy and not the other thing and not that not that non technology organizations nations can't do this stuff too but at the end of the day like technology allows the stuff to scale and to create a virtuous flywheel like you're talking about and sample we had two hundred nonprofits on profits working with box five years ago we have almost nine thousand now speak to scale any founder in the world that just realizes that she should be conscious of the needs of the nonprofit sector can and see a very healthy break even or better customer base emerge and then we've gone from about ninety thousand two hundred thousand nonprofit yeah that scale so so that's what i hope creating solutions and standards and templates and common data models that you can put out for the open you can open source these things things that really help build a community and sector using technology and much more rapid pace jeans technology competes with with all of us right. We compete against actually really do elevate community above those competitive pressures and influences every chance we get. That's it's not just unique to ngop. He's at the nonprofits us all of our stuff all right so for us to make it work better exactly to keep talking about the scale piece one of the things that <hes> we interviewed for podcast future cities murdy kosher who was involved in habitat for humanity for long time for the things that was really interesting that i'd never thought of it was very much like a pre technology solution right like get a bunch of amateurs to build houses for other people right but when the problem is hey and africa the exact number i think it was like we could take a bill like ninety six thousand dollars a year or something like that but the worldnet need for houses is like like a million dollars a month or a million houses a month and has like india alone needs more houses every day than habitat could create an year and it's like those type of problems were like the opposite of a flywheel where it's each individual thing is a totally new unique thing not something thank scalable and i think that it's really like a shift a paradigm shift of thinking about how we can support nonprofits going for because at the end of the day someone still needs the house <unk> so that has to get built either way but perhaps there's a more creative way of figuring all of those things out than <hes> and another thing that he talked about was that if habitat came to your community it should have been a wakeup for the people making the houses that we they even needed to do it like that was the thing more about engaging the community and building the house be like hey maybe we need to take some steps and that kind of thing was kind of ended up getting a little loss for him but i'm just curious areas from that kinda standpoint with with scale and the power of technology. What does this look like going forward. What do the next five and ten years look like so. I think think it we spoke about the power of intermediaries earlier and i think these that that the era of innovation challenge and community development and showcase of innovative have solutions that address needs is starting to become more vogue and we're we're really appreciative of that. You see tech centered nonprofits start with technology at their core. That's delivering their program. Graham not just enabling technology that surrounds the processes but actually starting with technology solution one degree comes to mind like a yelp for social services right so they don't have to hire the seventy five hundred hundred social workers to map people to solutions when a digital solution can in fact do in a some of that at scale but when you see fast forward dot org or the full circle fund tech accelerator accelerator <unk> see challenge that happens in the vatican city and december which we can't wait to be a part of your starting to harness the innovations of thousands of of innovative business business builders and sailors that then get introduced to the world that actually understands what's caused seventy million people to be displaced on the planet and then solutions get especially ashley inspiring and then corporations can come in and really have a nice seat at the table with some funding and some voice in some reach and the customer inclusion again these these innovation models and challenges are are very easy for companies to kind of play into and provide mentorship and some capital and some ideas and some of their some of their i._p. That i think will help lead us in the next five or ten years to some of the solutions that at scale get at these sustainable development goals that by twenty thirty are still really steep to to meet in a multi trillion dollar problem so innovation i would would add to that like this is not doom and gloom like humanity is better off right now than we've ever been technology solving millions of problems that we didn't know that we had like i just i think would super exciting to think about like this is still whatever year i mean the combined years that the company's at this table have been around is still probably under fifty right or somewhere around there right so you're looking at like even just in you know years of being around. Were not even close to like what the impact of this stuff could be makes me think i was having a conversation with a nonprofit leader that we work very closely with in san francisco does a lot out of work on poverty and homelessness and you know she was saying look. Technology has changed the way. I get to work his way order. My food has changed the way i shop for groceries and learn all all these other things like why can't we get seven thousand people off the streets at night in san francisco total half to believe we can and it was a very hopeful positive you know thought around the power of technology and i think that another way that we as leaders in the tech sector can start to get these problems in a different ways that the reason then we have you know uber in cart and all these great technologies that have changed our lives that somebody saw problem in their lives and figured out a solution that they wish they had and then they went and built it and they raise the you know the capital and they and they gathered the team and they and they built that and so the more we can have the people who are experiencing the problems in our community in in positions where they can generate the solutions and actually get the resources to go build them. Which is why i think something like fast forward as brian mentioned is it an amazing nonprofit tech accelerator ninety percent of their entrepreneurs are solving problems. They've personally experienced in their lives like that's a great example. We need more of that in our companies to which speaks seeks to how we hire and how we bring in talent but i think that's a really critical piece of this. I'm gonna give you a different angle which is a nonprofit and decided to close it because i felt like unfortunate enough of its sector this too many of us duplication duplication so if i think if i think looking for five or ten years i want to challenge us to consolidate instead of like fighting for funding and building our own brand and then as founders and i don't want to talk about money expertise is we wanted to spend more resources uses and we doing that right now right but accelerate that <hes> to enable people are on the ground because often they already have solutions and we ten then let us take vendors take partners over. We define yourself. We sometimes tend to come and just go over but we've been really trying hard at a recall nets to com and enable from the bottom up but acting as a consortium of leaders. There's nobody to really increase capacity where where it's needed. It's very hard when you're charity to get money for technology by the way after i to fundraise for software it is very hard. I think that is an area area that overhead myth that that jane had touched on. I think it it it bears worthy of a few minutes of discussion here because you look at at most corporate entities getting to spend ten or fifteen percent of their income where the revenue on innovation and technology to support their ability to scale and win and succeed in the nonprofit sector. It's very common to see one percent or perhaps perhaps less devoted to innovation now. I don't think that technology is a save all by any stretch but if two two point if that nonprofit doesn't understand the solution but they can't execute it could sometimes help with that. Sometimes we feel like we can do it all and we can't again. Make that very clear but we could possibly with technology. Tell the story of that solution that works and convene people to innovate on that scale but it's table stakes now. I think that that's part of the thing that i think like needs to be part of. The broader. Narrative is like if if you don't have a c._r._m. And her you know a nonprofit one hundred percent year not serving your <hes> constituents in the right way while you it. There's pretty much there's you could not show me one single way like if you don't have some type of cloud storage like number one. Your aren't secure number two like a people's personal data n. P. is probably at risk like these. Things are like table stakes now and there's a disconnect there because <hes> it's seen as overhead funders traditionally don't fund overhead <hes> restrict their dollars to program only. There's this myth that if you spend a dollar on technology you are not spending a dollar on saving that child's life right so but yet it's critical to the operations the efficiency and the impact that you're gonna drive and we've studied recently and over over eighty percent of donors and individual triggers believe that technology is is a nonstop you know it's a it's a nonstarter. You have to have it. Non-negotiable is very quickly understand yeah yeah yeah. So how do we change that cycle and be willing to fund technology as not as overhead but part of what you have to do in your programs yeah and then how do you start using once you have the technology her you start leveraging that data to make strategic decisions by because when we look at the impact measurement report you i know people believe in it again our leader seventy percent of leaders believe in it but when he comes to a personalizing it it's not happening right. Everything's silos too many systems and echoes the scale issue if yeah having there's no not really a lot of common data standards in the sector so how do we get common data standards so we get common transparency and consistency on that people can build off and bring greater transparency to their donors and funders. There's no doubt like everything is accelerating like the demand to accelerate is has never been higher and to collaborate inside and outside a nonprofit is no different from that from corporation with its customer base. They actually have to customers one helping on the funding side and one helping that they're helping on the other side and so it's that acceleration has the risk of leaving more nonprofits behind and i honestly think that corporate donors and other donors that influence corporate donors owner's family foundations and so on should more and more think about investing in innovation and technology is a viable way of making philanthropic investments. This is also about trust. I ultimately right. I think that there there needs to be more trust between donors and the nonprofits that they're giving to and <hes> it doesn't mean don't do your research thirteen. Don't do your homework but it means that. If you know an organization you trust their work then you need to do everything you can as a funder and as a partner to empower them to make their own decisions about what's best because they know now. It seems like i'm visas doing that. I mean not to kind of bring up what maybe a religious topic here back in the end. It's just like he is making donations that are less restricted than the traditional philanthropists ahead of him have and maybe again some would say more money than <hes> than you need even worry about it because the numbers are so big and but he is it does appear even if i mean again people could could question his methods and so on from time to time but he is more trusting of the organizations that he's investing in early in philanthropy career than than i've seen in some okay so that that i think does speak to it and if the nonprofit organization is going to turn some of that less restricted dollars toward innovation to actually repeat and scale what they do against the problems they solve. There's there's some hope in that. There's also a myth. I think so you need to trust and then you need to allow them to fail. Yes jerry di what that running using yeah exactly because we can't assume i mean as businesses as we fell right. We've got to learn fast over. We don't know nonprofits to fail safe. I think part of that fast when we invest is trusted my fell but we're gonna lose them to fail fast so then they can you know vate water not only did his his business model kind of starts to plastic a little bit but also the way that people supported charity water invented the birth on on the yet but now they have this notion of sustaining subscriber to their mission and so on so they're back on track and they're growing again and and kudos to scott and sean anthony and the whole team there that's innovation they failed and now they've come back yeah. That's why i think we could do about three more hours on this but we gotta get outta here. Any final thoughts go around the horn. It's important to do more. We're good together and it's good to be in a studio with redwood trees outside the window here. It's nice. I know right yeah thanks. He and this has been fantastic really appreciate the time. I appreciate all these getting together with my colleagues and you know i think i think a parting thought is yes. We all compete but this is where we come together and try to get together and in that it's fun. It's good work and <hes> it makes a difference. I think we need to of the talk almost fight so we obviously have to deliver in our own entities and and and drive success there but i think there's such an thirty two event scale more on what we globally so i feel energized in learning from each other which is the best way to drive chant asks jane to be my mentor once and she said we have to be each each. Other's mentors and i thought that was was pretty neat. I'll never forget that she said that that day and to get to be in this work with gurus who have been at this for decades when when we've been out for a while it's just it's an honor and it's cool to learn from from our peers. I would just end by saying that for those listening. Who are maybe inspired or thinking about things in a new way. I i would say just start. Don't think too much anymore to start and build from there to do some good day so much mission daily. All of our podcasts are created with love by our team at michigan dot org we own and operate a network of podcasts and a brand story studio designed to accelerate learning our clients include companies like salesforce their customer times five twenty and katara who worked with us because we produce results to learn more and get our case studies checkout mission dot org slash studios if you're tired of media news that promotes fear uncertainty and doubt if you want an antidote to all that chaos you're at the right place subscribe grab here into our daily newsletter admission dot org each morning. You'll get a newsletter that will help you. Start your morning in your day off right <music> <music>.

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Digital Production Buzz - May 30, 2019

Digital Production Buzz

55:13 min | 1 year ago

Digital Production Buzz - May 30, 2019

"Tonight. On the Bose, we've talked with experts about the current state of media technology. We begin by asking Philip Hodges the CEO of lumberjack system. What new workflows technology or software has emerged that seem significant for the future of media. He highlights four next. Since stories will always be with us. We asked Michael calmest, director of business development for bebop technology, whether the determining factor to successful storytelling will be new technology, new distribution or something else. He found a fourth option next. Dr Eric Johnson is the vice dean for academic programs at the attorney school of engineering at the university of southern California tonight he explains why teaching technology to students is important. And what parts of technology are most important to teach. Next Michael Horton co-founder of the. Los Angeles, creative pro user group almost twenty years ago tonight he explains why user groups remain, an important part of the creative process, and how he programs his events for maximum impact. All this plus James to Revoz journal. The buzz starts now. Since the dawn digital film-making. One show serves a worldwide network of media special. Uniting industry. Experts brushing, filmmaker owes Russian and content creators around the plant distribution from the media capital of the world in Los Angeles, California, digital production buys goes live. Now welcome to the digital production buzz, the world's longest running podcast for the creative content industry covering media production post production and marketing around the world. My name is Larry Jordan this month. We're looking at the state of the media industry from production to post so far, we've looked at producing production and post production tonight. We look at media technology itself I wanted to look technology from two perspectives, first trends that we need to watch then second how we teach all this evolving technology to students ended alz. To that end. I've invited some of our favorite guests to share their thoughts on tonight show and technology affects not only our industry, but the buzz itself after tonight show, the buzz will be going on hiatus. I'll have more to say on this, in my closing comments at the end of the show now it's time for James to Ruvo's journal, fellow James, happy, Thursday, and a happy Thursday to you to what's in the news this week this week at computrac in Japan Invidia announced a new app called Invidia studio for content creators. It is designed to streamline rendering workflows and Invidia. Studio can make video rendering up to twenty times faster on desktops using the g force artifacts or Quadra RT X graphics cards. There's also support for a red cine X which we knew about couple of weeks ago. And it can greatly improve pre-bus rendering in apps like cine tracer, but it does require laptops or desktops with an Intel, I seven processor. And at least a GE force, RT, x twenty sixty where does this fit within video gear in general? I like to think of invidious to as the digital nitrous oxide of your Invidia graphics engine. You push nitrous oxide, three your carburetor and you get this burst of speed in that kind of thing. That's what Invidia is doing is, they are dialing into rendering performance of your Invidia GP us and in doing so they're cutting, your output, time extremely dramatically. All right. And videos are lead. What's the second story? Well, bad news again, for Nikon users as BNA ch has sent out emails to customers who purchased Nikon brand batteries to inform them that they may have gotten hold of counterfeit models that. The retailer unwittingly received in a shipment from their suppliers. The counterfeit batteries include the. E. N. E. L. Fifteen. B. E. N. E L eleven through eight models. The N E L five and the E N E L three through one models. And since there is no way determine which customer received a fake battery from this bad batch being offering to replace any Nikon battery from a list of suspect models mentioned, above all you have to do is contact bien H and arrange to have your battery replaced. Icons had a tough couple of months. Yeah. It's been a tough spring for Nikon one that is over. Shadowing some great new features coming from their firmware updates, including twelve bit raw, but user should not discount, this, this recall because the dangers of using a counterfeit battery are extremely real, these batteries, don't contain the circuitry that shuts off the CIA. Charging once a battery reaches full capacity as such a fake battery can overcharge overheat, and even catch fire and explode with no warning whatsoever. So users are advised to contact being h immediately if they bought a Nikon battery from them, so they can range for an R M replacement. And what's our third story this week campaign is offering to d- click your our f mount lenses. So if you're a canon. EEOC R. E O's, R, P Mirrlees camera user. And you've got those are f mount lenses, you've noticed that the control ring on the new r f lens design can cause a subtle click that could be picked up by shotgun her booth. Mike to that in canon is offering to modify these control rings and will do so for about sixty dollars per lands, and canon is also going to d- click the f two are mount adapter as well. The price does not include TAT's and shipping, and it must be done at an authorized cannon facility will why can't why now I think it's a warranty issue. Larry, there are plenty of DIY videos out there on how to click lenses and they're very popular recruiters who use old legacy film lenses for the shooting. But you're. On your own with those DIY techniques. He don't have a warranty with those old lenses and just because cannon will warranty this service. I think makes it worth having a professional do it. And what other stories caught your attention this week. Other stars were falling include. There's talk that canon may be discontinuing not only the seventy series DSL are, but also the canon five s are in favor of merely designs, there's a hidden ten bit five K mode, and the Panasonic S one and Sony slashes prices on their merely cameras by as much as a thousand dollars. James, as you know, our industry is constantly changing, as these new stories attest and tonight that affects both of us starting next month. We're integrating doddle news into Larry, Jordan dot com website. Plus, you'll also be writing stories for both thoughtful news. And my weekly newsletters, which I think is especially nice. Well, what I like about this move is that we are able to preserve all our Donal news content from the last eight years, while bringing it to a larger Larry, Jordan dot com audience, but with the buzz going on height as it means I'm not going to talk to you every week and I've enjoyed working with you during the last three years on the buzz. I've looked forward to your news updates every week. I wish you great success. Thank you, Larry and right back at ya. I'm going to miss these, these. Little happy Thursday. Moments. Indeed. Yes, then James to Rubio is the editor in chief, doddle news. And thanks for all your hard work here on the bugs. I want to introduce you to anew website. They load com. Falem is an artist community and networking site for creative people to connect be inspired, and showcase their creativity. They low dot com features content from around the world with a global perspective on all things creative. They low is the place for creative folks to learn collaborate market and sell their works failure was apart of they low arts, a worldwide community of artists filmmakers, and storytellers from photography to filmmaking performing arts, fine arts and everything in between falem is filled with the resources you need to succeed. Visit they low dot com and discover how their community can help you connect learn and succeed that stay low dot com. Filipacci. It's is recognized as a leading technologist, as well as the CEO of lumberjack system, even better, he's a regular here on the buzz where he specializes in explaining new technology. Hello philip. Welcome back, Larry tonight. We're looking at media technology trends to watch and what we need to know to stay current. So as you look back over the last year, what new workflow technology or software has emerged that seems significant for the future. That is going to be extremely subjective. Because what significant to me is may not be significant to other people in vice. I but I've identified three trains, as being sort of surfaced in the last year, not necessarily just come about in the last year. Obviously, we see gang to see a lot machine learning in at tilsit, not as the big, I'm taking view job bogeyman, but more as modern smart tools skip the list. And we'll come back and talk about each of them, the first machine learning and smarter tools. What's the second one post Stotts on the sit? The third one is more of the workflow is moving to the cloud, and the final train actually is the full of my three he's mobile production and how we can get a lot of production quality and flexibility in very small packages. All right. Let's take take a look, I of machine learning and smarter tools. Why is this significant it's to probably have the biggest change on the way we do at work day by day and anything since probably non linear editing, because it enables us to get mitigate a fast enables, too many assets with less human intervention and human intervention is expensive. That's the most expensive meta data we can get is the ones where people literally listen to, and then make notes about an media. That machine learning is already inside the latest release of resolve. We've seen Dobie do a lot of sense. A power tools within the for me. Appro ecosystem. There's a lot going on. And it's going to continue to go on. And we'll just find that more and more of tools, have a little help going on from, from the machine learning. That's in the tool set where you've stressed before that you don't see this machine learning costing jobs. Why not gonna take away jobs in the way that people who said, all it's going to replace an editor a don't know that machine learning at this point has ever replaced a complete job. But he consistently Mike pots of the job thaw stir, and may and maybe make them the number of systems necessary or the exist the need for an assistant less necessary. It went it. It's always evolving. Technology always changes. The jobs that are available with that leads to fewer or more is, is very much depending on how you do the math in how you do the technologies Philip. How are you using machine? Learning in the tools that you create the most obvious places. Of course, the speech to text in lumberjack build a is a few. Killing machine. Learning based technology one that is easily rolled out across new languages in the they provided that we have cracking now has got twenty five different languages for support. We support all of those in lumberjack builder. Tonight, can I share a little bit of exciting news with you about lumberjack build absolutely tomorrow? Moaning way. We'll be announcing build at two point. Oh, there isn't only one important new feature in that. But Bill, two point. Oh, we'll support premie pro XML import and back to premiere pro. So you can get all builder advantage regardless of your favorite initially, very, very cool, congratulations. So the second one is post workflows onset. What's that main post is starting on the set? We've seen for quite a while that digitally making technicians of doing image mock-ups on the set doing the color grading that the producer of the directed knows what they're getting on the set. They get your grading through say roar into into into viewable footage on the sit-. There's a lot of move to. To do momento data entry on the state, and obviously, we would part of that. I think it's a trend obviously, they're more and more times with post starting on the set. And I think it's a good idea that post is involved in the shoot because. We'll have to be fixed in post post for the to say I can't do that third. One is workflow in the cloud, Michael, I think, might very good trae decision to, to go to bebop who one of the pioneers, of moving the, the apps that we use every day into the cloud, but it's, it's not only moving your apps into the cloud of moving media between people in the cloud that definitely trends, seeing, I would think that was saying this cloud slowly coming into the shoot and, and the production people like sink on sit doing the traditional culture hates, and all of that through the cloud that providing important minted editor about about costuming and all that back to the production. So that big thick paper bible is being replaced by a tablet. But it seems that implicit in the statement workflow in the cloud is that clambering is going to continue to increase because if an artist of one working in your your own studio, you don't need the cloud. It's only when you need to collaborate. The cloud becomes useful true. I would agree with that completely as much as I. My frie Myo, I have no personal need for it. But that doesn't mean that it isn't a valuable tool. So just because I don't need something in my in my workflow doesn't mean that other people went find that very valuable most people like me. I mean that's more individual produces are probably not doing very much on the really. Are they? Your fourth one is mobile. Productions the thing about my ball production is that it's a small production kit with a high payoff. Now I started getting trysted in is back in twenty twelve and setting up for the Loma bolted sodas project. We had very limited space on the boat and very limited pow so we had to work with tools that would work in that situation. And we will go president that point, I wanted now was looking at that if I wouldn't simply say, well, why not just use the iphones and the ipads that everybody already has and put the production together that way. And there's a whole range of tools. I've done a lot of work with switch studio both from my coaches studio as we put on showcases there. Also at an IV we use switches studio to do. Live streaming to camera live streaming to the internet, and the, the tool set will feet in a briefcase, there's a competitive as which issued a cinema, which has cable option, which in high noise areas of like where is your wifi wasn't working that might be great for that? Luma fusion is a very powerful, editing tool on IOS, and apple even made an ad for the ipad, pro where everything including the music and the editing was done on the ipad pro itself. So I think that's a major trained as that said, a lot can be done with these very, small very portable tool sets this leads into a business side question as technology becomes ever more powerful and cheaper. How does the creative artists remain in business when barriers to entry keep getting lower against the density? How does anybody staying businesses by heading value? Finding new ways to add value. I think one of the disservices that the production industry did for it so f- in the eighties, nineties into the century. Is that they sold the excess to the tools. That was the thing that I was selling. I can produce high quality because I've got beta campus as you've got a three quarter inch system. And that was a mistake because you never selling the tools. You was selling the stories that you could make with them and storyteller. Find you ice to evolve with the technology of OSA till this stories. I think this is probably even slightly preempting next question, but the production side is relatively easy. Anybody can get the tools to production produce a story bay within I find that they movies that have been created with an I find Molin. It's the distribution side that makes more difficult for people to get their movie scene. In hood, we know that the competition at Sundance is incredibly high the chance of getting your short shown there is Estra nominal. But people still strive for that as you look to the future, as you said stories will always be with us but is that determining factor to success with our stories going to be technology, new forms of distribution or something else, I'm probably gonna go with the something else. All of those things the technology and the new foams distribution are important. But the compulsion to tell stories as something that is deep in the human psyche. And we will always seek to tell stories the very aggregation that works against the individual storyteller being hood. Actually works full other individuals storytellers. I mean, the number of people who've built a career because they could access much audience via YouTube or aggregate, an audience for the short film or even fake via Facebook and other social media take away the individuality of one hand. But if you tools where you can stand out with on the other hand, almost going to have to say at some point, we have to win the with is a business or autism passion. We used to have a lot of people who can make a lot of money out of production. I think we'll see a lot more people making lists individually, but making decent incomes. And I think that's more important. I'd rather see twenty thirty fifty thousand creative people making the stories and getting them out to people and making a leaving from it, then having to three busy is in Hollywood controlling every sitcom Philip for people who want to keep track of your thinking, and other projects that you're working on cluding track system work to go on the web at Philip. Dot com is probably the best place tend to everything intends to go into the across all of my interest areas. That's all one word Philip objects dot com. V Filipacci himself as the voice, you've been listening to Philip, thanks for joining us today. As director of business development for bebop technology, Michael commerce, leverages, his experience with Creative Technology and tools providers to exceleron growth and provide strategic perspective across marketing sales and partnerships with that means is Michael understands tech. And he's also of frequent and welcome contributor to the buzz. Hello. Michael, welcome back. Hello, Larry fantastic to hear your voice again. I always enjoyed chatting with you because tonight, we're looking at media technology trends, to watch and what we need to notice stay current. And as you look back over the last year. What new workflow technology or software has emerged that seems significant for the future. I think there's two big things Larry and I'd rather focus on if possible, not just, oh, this machine has more cores, or this software can playback more streams, I think right now we're in a very good place with the, the three or four big software players in terms of, and elis, and we have a lock on what the audio realm is, I think if we take a look at some of the overarching technologies, I think that the red carpets have been ruled out for them. One of them is something that you're on your last guest, just had Philip retired about lumberjack system and the tools of incorporating machine learning and dare I say a I in. Into storytelling not to replace editors, but to take a lot of the de-stressing, ditch digging work out of it, and let create as opposed to the more menial tasks, and really looking forward to seeing how we can train machine learning to do this for us while you're right. His Phillips, number one comment was machine learning and smarter tools, and I wanna come back into Scots machine learning with you as well. But what's your second topic, so we're going to both listed up from the second topic, I think is leveraging machines that are not within arm's reach. It's not just the MAC book pro on your desktop or the PC sitting, you know, at the quiet side of your edit bay. It's leveraging cloud. It's leveraging dispirit forms of technology that are not at your fingertips. But now because of the internet, we now have access to, and that's not just the technology, but the folks who understand how to use that technology, I think is going to help storytelling immensely moving forward. Well, let's switch back to machine learning for just a minute. How do you see that as a neighboring storytelling storytelling is creativity? Right. It's the craft and the more time you're spending doing things that are not craft related the less time, you can spend creating so if we're talking about organizing keywords, so we're talking about creating bins for talking about logging footage for talking about trimming out an, the stuff that takes away from the pure storytelling aspect. I think anything we can do to reduce the pedestrian work to give more time to the creatives is a godsend for all creative. So I think that's where we're gonna see machine learning take precedence. I push back with you on that. Sure I can understand how machine learning would make tools easier to use Philip used terms smarter tools, but as technology becomes both more powerful and cheaper. And does more hot is the creative artists remain in business when the barriers to entry keep getting lower. That's a great question. Larry. And something that I discussed with my colleagues quite a bit. And I think we saw this to some extent, during the great NLE change over back in the late nineties, when we went from the hundred thousand dollar avid system to will. Now, we have funnel Cup pro and adobe and these other software packages. I think there was a time in the late eighties and nineties, where you could be just a creative, because the financial barrier of entry was so great to get in that not everyone had the technology, how that applies now is, we're gonna see more and more creatives having to do even more. And I know this has been something that, that has been pushed for years, editors have had to start doing motion graphics and they start the started do be pushed to do more Photoshop work. But I think this trend is not gonna stop. I think we're gonna see more and more editors saying, I have to diversify my tool set I have to learn these and I need to market myself. I can't just be an editor on staff. I need to be a. A one person band and be able to market myself, as knowing all of these tools, not just the creative storytelling tools, but also the things for graphics and motion graphics too. So rather than opting for specialization recommending that all of us become generalist, unfortunately, I think that's going to be the way to go. And I and I think the other angle to that. And this probably sounds like overkill, but we're generating more content. There's more platforms for distribution. There's more platforms for consumption and so we're not gonna have this upper echelon of everything is going to be CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX HBO, you know, high net flicks, there's going to be so much content that is going to be shall we say, at a lower stature than that, both from a quality and financial perspective. And so, I think there's enough work to go around for everyone. Your second point is leveraging machines that are not an arm's reach. What does that mean? If you were to buy a machine now. You're going to be settled with that machine for three years, five years or even longer. And I think we're getting into a point where we no longer need to sit on that one machine or two machines. I think if we start leveraging the technology in the cloud or technology. That's in someone else's data center to do rendering to do processing or to even plug into tools that we don't have access to is going to help us immensely. There are ton of tools out there asset management systems render systems, even transporters that are hundreds of thousands of dollars. And if those move from a cap, ex model, meaning you buy it to an op ex model meaning you'll only pay for it when you use it. That's going to bring a lot of these tools, which are highly expensive down to a more consumer pro Sumer or one off perspective for creatives. So the more we can leverage tools that we don't have to buy, and we can rent, I think, is going to make the quality of public that much easier and will certainly diversify. By the tools that you can use a how do you reconcile that with the ability to actually access our projects? If we've got a rent the software to be or rent, the hardware, if we're between projects, I've suddenly have to rent, it just to be able to view something that strikes me as becoming more awkward, not less, Larry, if we look at this simple, things like trans coding, you know, that, that doing a standards conversion going from twenty three nine hundred twenty nine seven or back, that simple conversion can be really, really hard. But if we look at these expensive enterprise coders that are already in the cloud that we can rent on a per project basis. What's wrong with that? How would that be detrimental to the creative and storytelling process, if we get access to that technology for pennies on the dollar? But only when we need it, it's become obvious as both you and Philip talked about that machine learning and a general, there's going to be part of our life in greater, and greater proportions going forward. Hotta. Creative artists embrace this and use it to enable our work, rather than fear it because it's going to be restricting what they used to be able to pay for. And that goes to the kind of cornerstone of our industry if you stop and take a breath and look around for too long, you might miss it. Our industry is constantly evolving. I know it's kind of trite, but we joke in the industry that there's two reboots every year, right? NABC an IB see and I don't know of a number industry where there are two milestones in three hundred sixty five day span, where the industry can change. So I think that anyone coming into the industry has to realize you can't rest on your laurels. You can only improve your skills, and that is a constant evolution that you have to do. And if you can't, then maybe you should move into management. One last question as you look to the future stories will always be with us will the determining factor to success as storyteller spe-, new technology or new forms of distribution or something else. Wow. That's a good question given the massive VOD model. And the fact that we can consume video from just about anywhere on everywhere. I think if we're using a monetary scale as being the judgment point for what successful it's going to be marketing. It's going to be standing out from every other angle, you're being bombarded with in terms of media to consume. So I think if you look at it from that perspective, it's going to be the marketing angle. I think you're Ave shit is absolutely correct. But what is the creative artists need to do to be a successful marketer, because that leads into a lot of stuff that we're not good at we're good. At telling stories we're good at using tools to tell stories. But now. We're into something different, which is breaking about our work, which many of us are not necessarily comfortable doing, I think, for many, many decades, what we consumed on television, and then what we consumed on basic cable television, was media that was meant for the masses it didn't appeal to Nietzsche's groups or subgroups. And I think what we're finding with the internet over the past couple of decades. Is that these smaller groups, these neat interests do have a sizable audience, and that sizeable audience does have purchasing power. And so, I think we're gonna start seeing more editors more creative saying, I'm going to market myself to be in bits niche to work with this group of people in this industry because I understand how they think I understand what kind of content they like and how they consume it. And so, I think we're gonna see a lot more creatives, maybe not bouncing back and forth between action and documentary and YouTube, etc. I think we're gonna see him much more consolidation of that, and people choosing, sir. Paths to go down. Then how do you reconcile this emphasis on the niche market with what you said, at the beginning of the interview, which is that we all need to be generalists? I said, generalists in terms of technology, not in terms of storytelling. I think there are so many technologies out there that we have to learn and many portions within the creative process, if you're working on a blog, let's say compared to a feature film. They're still the traditional post production processes. They're still the editing. They're still the grading. They're still the sound work all those require multiple tools. Just because you can use the multiple tools for one genre. Doesn't mean you're quipped to do it better than someone else in another John Rao being generalist terms of technology is paramount. But I think honing your skills to one or two particular, verticals. I think is going to be important moving forward. And then time it into marketing to push yourself and market yourself to those Nietzsche's, and Michael for people that want to follow the thinking that you're going through or keep track of the projects. You're working on where can they go on the web to places you can go to Michael calmest dot com? You can also go to my web series five things series dot com that web series is the number five five things series dot com and Michael commerce, KM ES. Michael commas dot com. Michael compass is the director business development for bebop and Michael as always. Thanks. Thank you for the opportunity. Larry. I've always appreciated it. Dr Eric Johnson is the vice dean for academic programs at the Turbie school of engineering at USC among many other duties, Dr Johnson is also the interim director of the information technology program, which teaches students across the university, computer and technology skills to complement their major. Hello, Eric, welcome. Hi, Larry glad to be here today. How would you describe the information technology program IT p serves a very important role here within the university? It allows us to teach students from across the university, not just engineering students, but as -tudents from political science and economics, and business company, tation skills, and computational, thinking, giving them tools that complement what they're doing in their major and open up new opportunities for them in their careers and so forth, we live in a digital era, and it is essential that people from. Every discipline have good exposure to and be conversant with modern technology and so forth. IT serves a very important role in that regard. We have about a thousand students currently from every possible major around campus. Tonight, we're looking at technology earlier in the show. We heard from Philip, it's Michael about specific applications of technology to media. What I'm interested in talking with you about is the process of getting students prepared for using technology in the working world. And there's an debate about whether schools should teach theory on fundamentals or whether they should teach actual operation of software and hardware, where do you fit in that debate? I would sit solidly in the middle. A middle of the road, sometimes dangerous because that's where you get run over students. Need to see both teaching students how to use the software? That's in use today is important for them going on immediately to a job. But it may not prepare them for what they're going to be doing ten or twenty years, the software that we use today for particular application, may not exist anymore. It is essential then to think about what do we do to prepare students to go onto their first job. But what do we do to prepare them for the lifelong learning and the job that they are going to have in ten years, twenty years, thirty years? And that's the place where learning something about the theory becomes important because theory is not tied to specific tools. We use today, but gives them the fundamentals that they can use to build their learning over their lifetime, so that they're they can use the tools of twenty years from now. Hot you interest students, whether they're young or old and. Learning something they don't know. How do you hook their attention? Some of it is just through the excitement of what you can do. Technology, also it's recognizing and helping them to see that this is helping them for their future. When I thinking, in the classroom, I'm thinking, mostly about what I can teach them that they can then use especially with technology. How can I teach them tools that they can use in classes that they are going to be taking in the future? So one of the classes that I've often taught, for example was Richard artery, numerical methods and programming for civil environmental engineer's. It's taken normally in the freshman year and it gives students tools that they're gonna use subsequently in a job after they finish. But also to be more quipped to pursue the problems that they're doing in their other classes in there the rest of their program. My primary focus in teaching us to think about equipping them with the tool. That they need to move forward. One of the challenges we have with technology is it's really, really complex. What approach works best when you're teaching a complex tuck nickel subject walking students through it how, so I could stand up in front of a room and talk about some of the complex subjects and tried to explain them in detail. And that's a piece of that, but students have to get their hands dirty. And so walking them through, for example, a programming example, or digital graphics. Sometimes you have to see it, and you have to go through the process. See it go through going through the process first, and then you have to do it yourself doing it yourself is essential for almost all technology learning because it's easy to, to, to watch. What an instructor does and say that seems easy academic that I could do that. I could do that. And then when it actually comes to doing it yourself. You forget about some all the little details that go into it. It's a combination of teaching them, some theory, showing them, some examples walking them through slowly through things, and then giving them a chance to try it. But in an environment where they have access to the instructor or to some teaching assistance to answer their questions quickly. Otherwise, it's easy for them to get frustrated. So having a laboratory environment, for example, where the students can work through problems either immediately after class or or or relatively close to the time that they talk about it in the regular lecture gives them an opportunity to really do the hands on part of it. The great pleasure of hiring students on a regular basis. And one of specially after they've just graduated and one of the things I find most interesting is that many graduates feel that they've arrived, and they have not yet discovered that they really don't know much of anything and life is the process of ongoing education. Lifelong learning lifelong learning exactly this is brought home to me a long time ago with a friend of mine, who turned to be a great frustration throwing his pencil on a desk. I'm tired of learning. I wanna just start doing. Which strikes me of most graduates. How do you convince kids that it is really lifelong learning? This is just the first step. I think in many ways. That's what the university is. Yes, students will learn knowledge in there for years here, but a big part of a university experience is learning to learn. It's learning to approach problems in particular way. It's learning how to think more than just learning facts and so forth. It's learning in a way that you can then apply later as you said, it's, it's easy, I think, for people to think, okay, now I've finished whatever whatever level school, whether it's high school or college or graduate school to, to think, okay, I have arrived. I'm done. I don't have to go to school anymore. That's true. You don't maybe don't have formal learning you have to do after that. But informally especially in technology that is changing exponentially fast. If you stop. You'll be left behind so quickly today. You've been involved with technology for decades. What is it that still catches your fancy? What keeps you interested? There's always something new, and that's exciting. I think one of the challenges in some fields in some jobs is being stuck doing the same thing day to day ten general comment. One of the things I love about being at a university is we are constantly developing new knowledge. We are constantly challenged by a NewCo or students. We have to continue thinking, we have to continue innovating after continue advancing, and with technology. I think that's one of the things that society and there's, there's something new the comes around the corner every day coupled with that. The capabilities we have today are truly quite mind boggling, the cell phones, the most of us use on a day-to-day basis have more computational power than ten million. Supercomputers had just thirty years ago, and that opens up so many opportunities for doing interesting, new things for students that are interested in learning. How to think where can they go on the web? To learn more about the programs that IT offers the IT website is IT p dot USC dot EDU and information about the courses. We offer about the faculty about the miners and programs that we offer are all listed there as well as some information about where our students go when they finish very cool. That website is I t p USC dot EDU, Dr Eric Johnson is the vice dean for academe ick programs at the school of engineering at USC. Dr Johnson, thanks for joining us today. Thank you very much. Here's another website. I want to introduce you to dot news dot com dot news, gives you a portal into the broadcast video and film industries. It's a leading online resource presenting news reviews and products for the film and video industry, Donald news also offers resource guide and crew management, platform, specifically to sign for production, these digital call sheets, along with our app, directory and premium listings. Provide end up organizational tools for busy production professionals news is part of the failure arts community, a worldwide community of artists filmmakers, and storytellers, from the target of filmmaking performing arts, fine arts and everything in between fail is filled with resources, you need to succeed, whether you want the latest industry news need to network with other creative professional's require state of the. Online tools to manage your next project. Only one place to go. Donald news dot com. I. Michael Horton, co-founded, the Los Angeles, creative pro user group more than twenty years ago. He also co founded the legendary super mates best of all, he's a longtime friend of the buzz and I'm glad to say, welcome back. Mike, welcome. Larry. It's great to be with you once again, it always is always fun to chat with you. You know, I was thinking you were on my first podcast all those years ago. You co hosted the show with me for nine years. Do I really for ninety nine years? So it seems appropriate to me that you'd be here for this one just before the buzzer goes on hiatus. Well, thank you for having me, it really isn't honor. And hopefully that high isn't going to bury very long. And then you can having back for another nine years. I'm not sure we'll this ready for that. Tonight. We're looking at technology Philip and Mike disgust technical trends technology past and future. Eric Johnson talked about teaching tech to students but for more than two decades, you've been helping Dulce master their craft. What are the most popular sessions at a user group like the Los Angeles creative producer grew? Good question there. And I was actually looking at my pass meetings on my website. It actually goes back to the very first meeting that we had back in June of two thousand so that's nineteen years him nineteen years ago, this month will be the nineteen th anniversary and I was looking at some of the, the agenda's early on. It was a final cut pro user group, most of the presentations were of a technical nature of technique nature, how you do this do that in a lot of new products and it sort of evolved, after we called it the creative pro user Groot into new products. And a lot of creative ways to use those products with creative people coming up and, and giving an idea and how they do what they do it, morphed into more of a creative Reza group rather than a technical user group fact, we don't do a lot of technical stuff. We do new products and bring in people who use those products and see how they actually use them themselves. One of the nice things that you do as you program, the user group says, you look for a variety of subjects to cover each month. Yeah. But people vote with their feet. Yeah. What is it that, you know, is going to bring in a large crowd celebrity editor, really always works? It always works, especially depending on the current movie that they just did, or if they are a legend in the business, of course that will bring them in just this last month. We had Nick months, you're who did the movie us, big hit movie, everybody wanted to see what he did with complex movie and how he shaped it. And we had to discussion on unjust that. And so, anytime I bring in a creative working editor, that brings a lot of people into the theater, although just this last meeting, we had black magic defensive resolve night. It was all about resolve, and all the new stuff that they have in it, and then version sixteen that was a full house so hit. Yeah. You sure can't predict can't you? Well, we can't. But there's a lot of people interested in new products is long as that new product is somewhat earth shattering and the stuff that black magic has been doing every single time. They come up the new version that seems to, to make people sit up and notice, and they wanna come and they actually want to talk to the people who were making it. That's one of the reasons that they show up, not just to see the new features because they can see that on the online, but they actually want to talk to the people wanna ask questions. So they wanna do that face to face, and the same thing with celebrity editors. They wanna talk to them. They wanna ask questions. Not just see how they do what they do. But it gets very personal in this intimate setting at the gallery inter. So we try to do that taking a step back. What's more important to you, as you program, these helping users understand technology or understand their craft or? Become more creative, or is it something else? Yeah. It's always been understanding the craft and I try to bring people in who understand that to people like you. When you anytime that you come you always bring a lot of people to the theater because there's a lot of fans Larry Jordan in you're able to articulate the craft or the technique in a way that a lot of people can't. And so you want people like that, you want people like you to come in and, and do what others cannot do and you've done that several several times over the years. So I just scrolling down through all the past meets, and if they all have something in common, it's more about craft and not a lot about tech. There's certainly a lot of new products demos this next month. You have Philip Hodges on your on your show tonight and he'll be doing the, the new builder and I know a lot of people are going to want wanna see that because we're gonna hype it to the point of this earth, shattering new product. And it is in a way it's going to solve a lot of problems. So we're going to be doing something like that on the creative part of the show, I haven't done that yet, but I think I need to because the other presentation will be more of two editors to filmmakers, one in Germany in one in Los Angeles making a movie that'll be using a lot of the frame. I oh so that's what is happening in the world today where you can collaborate with people all over the world by using these new tools, such as frame, I. Oh, that's kind of technical. But I'll bring in something creative. I don't know yet. User groups across the country are struggling. What do you see is the future of user groups? It's really tough. It's really hard to get people out of the house last pug is, is successful, number one, because we have access to a lot of talent here in Los Angeles. So even though it's very difficult to get them out of the house, and get them over to Lassie poked for presentation. And it always is I have the access to that the problem is, I'm also had the competition is though there's an event, almost every night in Los Angeles, two to three events, sometimes of which everyone should be going to who is in this industry. What I try to heighten more than any thing is the opportunity to not only learn something, but to network, I hit people over the head with, that every single month that if you really are serious about being in this business, you need to get out of the house, and meet people because MIR. More likely to get a job based on who you know, not your talent. But why is that message so hard for potential members to hear? I don't know has it always been hard, probably, I don't think this isn't any thing, new to any new generation or anything like that. I think it's always been hard, especially creative, people are lot more comfortable by themselves, and they are with a crowd of other people, and it's really hard to say, hi. My name is and what do you do for a living? And hey, let's have a Cup of coffee in the get the know each other. That kind of thing, it can't be done in one meet. It has to be done over and over and over again. But I can't tell you how many people have gotten jobs, just because they've met people at Alaska meeting or super meet those are the ones who really give it their all to try to meet people in so net working is just paramount. It's it's it is the most important thing you can do forget all this technical stuff. You'll learn that, you know, monkeys can learn. N L A's. It's not that difficult. He can learn all that stuff, online learning how to meet people talk to people be nice to people that's a little bit harder. You have to practice you have to get out of the house. You got to move your feet. You gotta move you feet. You know, it is it is it is very hard. And especially for creative people were socially retarded. Part of our nature. It's in our DNA. So you got to you got to create a new character. For people who decide that it is time to move their feet, get out, and meet new people, and get that next job. Where can they go on the web? To learn more about the LA creative Proser group really easy. Even though we're called the Los Angeles creative pro user group are acronym is still L A, F, CPU dot org, and one of these days all change it. One of these days, I'll do update on the website, which is still goes back to two thousand and it still looked at it. Looks like it, but it gets the job done. Give you all the information that you need. So why change something and the website is all one word. L. A. F. L. A. F CPU, G dot org. And Mike Horton is co-founder of laughs pug. And what how you how you lasting I call it. Lassie pug. LA CPU Chee. So it's last Lassie like the dog. Or you can call it lack pug, but Lassie folks seems to be what everybody's calling it. All right. Then. That's what we're gonna call it here. The website as Elliot CPI, UT dot ORG and Mike Horton's the co founder, Mike, thanks for joining us to thank you, Larry always, always an honor. Take care. Our industry is a wash in change during this last month. We've discussed the current state of media technology from producing to post, and everyone agrees that changes both disruptive and exceleron thing, but not necessarily bad as you may have read in the newsletter changes are coming to the buzz as well. I deeply believe that independent voices are essential to add balance to vendor Centric marketing, but it is also important for these voices to be affective to that end. We've decided it's time to take a break from producing new episodes of the digital production buzz to refocus our energy into creating more articles, webinars and trading which can enable all of us to succeed during this high eighties might team. And I want to look at ways we can make the buzz more relevant to media professionals. Over the last many years, we've focused on interviews. But perhaps there are other things we should be doing as well. This production pause. Gives us a chance to reflect reconsider and renew the show. Also starting next month. We're integrating Donal news into the Larry toward dot com. Website. This means that James to Rufa will be writing articles on technology for both doddle and Larry, Jordan dot com. Which I think is really nice. This move also makes the content on Donald news. More accessible, this break also allows me to restart my weekly webinars with a look at new tools and technology that I just haven't had time to cover before. I've enjoyed creating every episode of the buzz. I'll miss hosting each show and our weekly conversations, but the buzz isn't gone. It's just resting for a while as we figure out how we can best use it. To continue covering our industry, and you can still access all of our shows at digital production, buzz dot com. In the meantime, you'll find me, Larry toward dot com. I look forward to seeing you there and that's a wrap. Thank our guests this week, Filipacci with lumberjack system. Michael commerce with bebop technology. Dr Eric Johnson with USC. Michael Horton with Lassie pug, and James to Rubio with doddle news dot com. There's a lot of history in our industry, and it's all posted to our website at digital production. Buzz dot com here you'll find hundreds of shows and thousands of interviews all online and all available to you today. Transcripts provided by take one dot TV our theme music was composed by Nathan doogie Turner with additional music provided by smart sound dot com. Our producer this. Pauliina borowski. My name is Larry Jordan, and thanks for listening to the digital production buzz. Did you production buzz us copyright two thousand nineteen by? Falem. Gull. LC.

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Triangulation 385: Piper Founder Joel Sadler

Triangulation

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Triangulation 385: Piper Founder Joel Sadler

"Coming up on triangulation sit down with Joel Sadler of piper. And we've got some really cool stuff to show you stuff. That's going to get kids involved in coding and assembling. Computers. That's up next on triangulation. That casts you love from people you trust. This is. This is triangulation episode three eighty five recorded Friday, February fifteenth twenty nineteen piper founder Joel Sadler. This up triangulation is brought to you by capterra. Find the right software for your business with over seven hundred fifty thousand reviews of products from real software users checkout capterra's free website to find the right tools to make twenty nineteen the year for your business at capterra dot com slash triangulation. Hello, welcome to triangulation the show where we sit down with some people doing amazing crazy. Awesome stuff with technology. I love doing the show. I'm Jason Howell. And I feel like kind of right now, it seems like one of my beats here at twit is taking a look technology and how that's intersecting with the classroom. And specifically how how technology. Products games. Whatever you want whatever you want to say Minecraft kids like the Keno magic magic coating won-. The Harry Potter wand. All these things are coming out right now that are really inspiring children to kind of get familiar with the concepts of stem and steam and programming especially and in in ways that I know when I was a kid. It was a lot harder as less less. Attainable less served up in an easy to learn fashion, which meant that you you either got it or you didn't. And if you didn't it'd be really hard to connect with it throughout, you know, your childhood and throughout your life. Now, it's so easy for kids to get involved with this stuff's on super thrilled to welcome to the show founder of piper. Joel sadler. Welcome. Joel awesome. Thanks jason. Absolutely. It's so great to get you here. I I can't remember when it was sometime in the last couple of months where this idea of the piper computer, kind of flashed flashed in front of me. I can't remember if it was in. An Email or was a news article that I read whatever. But when I saw it I immediately thought this is such a interesting concept, but but has to be an amazing way for kids to really kind of cut their teeth in what computer science is all about in. It's so now it's such a now product, and I love I love what you guys are doing with the piper. Appreciate that. And you probably saw an image of a wooden, computer. Hang up on the screen. You know, we wanted that sparked. It'd be something. That was surprising. Yep. Technology does in an unexpected way. But approachable whenever you ever seen a wooden computer that actually plays a game that your kids love. Well, you know, what it reminded me of? I what was the name of the very early. Apple, computer. Apple ones are in a wooden case they were in a wooden case. And I was kind of as as by daughter who's nine as we were assembling this putting it together that was kind of the image that I had in my mind of like, you know, the these this perfectly crafted would as the case that surrounds this this high. Hi amount of technology on the inside. What a what a cool tangible approach, you know. And I'm sure they the apple founders, you know, they did that probably out of necessity because that's just what they had. But as similar to how we started. This was basic out of necessity knows what we had lying around. We had a laser cutter access to that that we could cut. What we it wasn't plywood. We had this very cheap and the F board and the first prototypes ended up resonating so much with kids that the prototypes ended up being much. Like you see here in the product. Yeah. And that would is really important for our mission because it sort of signifies its material of craft. It's warm it's aligned with things like the maker movement and design, and so we wanted our product to reflect that and, you know, having kids get inspired to dive into technology something that they can modify. Right. They can take a screwdriver hacksaw or laser beam cut through and make the world, you know, the way that they see. It. And so we definitely wanted that first moment that I picture it to be something that drew them in and saw technology as something they can shape. Yeah. And it's also I mean should say because because it's a would case it's also perfect for now. Because there is a lot of attention around green. You know, being green guy using renewable materials, and that sort of stuff if there are so many pieces of technology that I can think of that are absolutely not in any way, shape or form green at all yet. You know, they're everywhere and we rely on them. So so that's also kind of nice lesson to t- to teach children as they're building this too, right? Like, you don't need a big hunk of plastic to be the case and be around forever and ever and some landfill somewhere. It can be something that that feels just a little bit more more neutral more of more renewable renewable and thing. What's exciting is kids can look at the kit an envision where all the parts come from. Yes technology. You look at an iphone today. It's sort of. Sealed in a black box. It's hard to sort of see the parts, and and get a sort of understanding of how the bits and pieces work together. So you know, when you see the wood case, it's an approachable moment to come in. And see, you know, I can see where that would came from. And then get to the next level. You see the circuit board. See the battery pack there's wires. It's all about scaffold and experience in a gentle manner. So we can sort of have everyone have an exciting experience the first time. Yeah. I love it. So we're going to obviously, we're going to spend some time talking about the piper. I thought before we kind of get into the details around this. Awesome, computer? We've had so much fun. I I'm I'm so stoked that you're here. Because my daughter like she basically is like, oh my goodness. You're meeting the guy who created this thing, you know. So she gets that experience. I was like what what question do you have for him? And she was like could you ask him? How he did it. So we're going to talk about that. That'll be her her over Archie question that you'll want to have answered I we're gonna dive deep on that. But I thought we would start off kind of with your your background because you have a really cool story that leads up to piper piper is kind of the last three years. I'd say of your life, right? Yeah. But you've done a lot of things prior to this you grew up in Jamaica. And I know that LEGO was really close to your heart while you were in Jamaica, come talk a little bit about kind of building, you know, that that experience being in Jamaica, and the kind of the importance of LEGO to your development. Yes. I mean for me, I spent all I grew up in Jamaica. I just came here for college. And it was for me having access to these toys that were creative Legos and LEGO mind storms and McConnell, which I think is erector set here in the US. Oh, yeah. Remember, those these were constructive toys, you build things out of parts McConnell, especially at had screwdriver nuts and bolts we actually use the. Same screws that and nuts that are in a McConnell set that was a very mechanical way to get exposed to the world. And it's all me that you can dream, and if you wanna make a, you know, an airplane or or spaceship that you could start to build a pieces together to shape them. And then at that time, the Legos and McConnell started to get electrified. So not only could you create the physical forms that you could dream up. You could start to make them come alive. Making them be interactive have them move. And that's the beginnings of early computer revolution as well. So those early days taught me a little bit about how important those early childhood experiences were what's the first experience? You have with a computer building a computer or building electronic set out of Legos. I found that it was really pivotal for me being inspired to go on a career the make things where people and also growing up in Jamaica place with less resources that taught me the mindset of you. Don't need a lot of money. You don't need a lot of resources. This is a universal thing that every challen the planet gets exposed to educational toys in some form. And now is the kernel of surf founding piper. It's like what what are those early childhood experiences that every child that we think every child should have to get them on their way, you know, in life. Yeah. And I know that kind of, you know, a part of the piper experience for me has been as a father working with my daughter throughout the whole experience. Right. Like, she could probably do this all on her own. She's very familiar with LEGO. And following the kind of instruction book to put this piece and kind of rotate things around. So that they match the blueprint and everything, but it was really I know that she enjoyed having me there because that's what kids want right like they want time with their parents kind of shared experiences, and I enjoyed being there. How involved were your parents with this kind of development that that you were? Undergoing as as a child around creating with with LEGO. And I imagine eventually that kind of transitioned more fully into the technology direction. But were they they're working with you in this way? Is that kind of thing that was had savvy parents who understood that, you know, rebellious child that might be you know, like me that might have been a bit bored with traditional school needed needed that stimulation. My dad was was a civil engineer. So I had that bias I could see I could see the world of imagining things and them taking shape bridges and so on. So I think the the the seeds of going from sketches on paper in those days. It was pencil and paper drafting which I had to do in school. I could see how those actually translated to large buildings and bridges and in the community. So that was an important backdrop, and my parents, definitely, you know, took time to find the Legos and mcconnells of the world that Meccano set mentioned was, you know. I I think I was aged seven I saw another guest on this show that even mentioned the same set. There's a pattern here where if you have parents who are thinking about you know, what are the experiences? I want enrich my children's lives with to give them awareness. That was certainly the case for me. And you know, I think would piper we're hoping that that that then becomes the next kind of auction that gets put in sure it certainly makes it obvious to a child's developing line that this is possible. Right. You know, it's it's like the the conversation. We were talking a little bit before the show I had a conversation with with my daughter Lucy while we were putting it together. And there was just that that one moment where she works. She looked at me. And I was like this is really cool. She's like, yeah. Building a computer right now. And before that moment like she had like, obviously, there's a first time for everything. But I never in a million years would have thought my nine year old. You know knows what it's like to build a computer. But that's exactly what you're doing here. Yeah. It's it's we wanna convince not not just the kids that they can build a computer. But also their parents. And they're sure is you know, we we watch kids everyday Bill Bill their own computers. So we know that anyone can do this. Yep. And so it's as much for the kids as it is, you know, for the parents to see the potential in their children. That's that. We're unlocking. Absolutely. So then you, you know. You you get older you go to Stanford MIT, pretty prestigious places and directions. You wrote a thesis called enabling novices to prototype electron IX, which I mean, that's that appears to be maybe there was a foundation prior to piper. But that appears to be directly tied to where where you ended up even though we'll talk a little bit about kind of the the the kind of points that you experienced between then. But would you agree with that Tesis like really the foundation for piper? Yeah. I think, you know, having having built a bunch of products to help people and eventually the main question in my mind is how do we scale is? How do we get more more people involved in creating things for others? I'm more diverse crowd of product, creators. And so at Stanford, I got obsessed with the idea of, you know, how do we enable anyone whether they're they have any technical experience or not how to enable them to create their ideas. And so not just engineers that I had had surround. Did you know in an MIT and other places, you know, I wanted to see you know, biologists jumping in and who were working on the care to cancer, and then creating solutions to what they're seeing in their laboratories, and eventually working with kids seeing that they had their own ideas, as well that, you know, perhaps become the seeds to solve our big problems. So yeah, my my expiration at Stanford, and that was really about going out there talking to everyone that I could find that sort of had ideas, whether there were kids or nurses, playing with the tools that they had whether they're LEGO blocks or the or, you know, things that we've eventually put into piper like really affordable microcomputers and just understanding what's getting in the way here. What can we do about this to make this turn this experience into something that scales that becomes something that perhaps it becomes a standard way that people get exposed to technology? So that that definitely was the early work that lead up. A lot of that that principle is put in piper. Yeah. Well, and also, you know, watched your tax talk about the Jaipur ni. And really kind of what I walked away from that. With is is that it's obvious to me watching that presentation. And and where your work has has led to that you are at at your heart, your a creators advocate. Yeah. I mean, you you have you your it seems like your big mission is to like, you say really kind of make or help people realize that they have the ability to create a lot of people. I think pigeonhole themselves and say, well, I'm not creative. I don't know how to do that sort of stuff. I don't you know. And or, you know, maybe maybe they do they just haven't had some sort of a way to say way into it. Which is exactly what does that early work? You bring up the Jaipur ni that was a low cost prosthetic that myself and some students designed while we were studying at Stanford, and it ends up being. To this day, something that's fit on people with missing limbs every single day. And it's amazing. We started as you know, in our twenties in a dorm room with cardboard and scissors. And prototypes idea saw that it affected people's lives in a really deep way. And these were very formative experiences. I don't think, you know, myself or others were particularly, you know, special in the sense of geniuses. We just worked hard we prototype. We listen to what the users had to say. And that really convinced me that anyone can jump in here and do this. And then I turn my attention to what what do we have to do hair to sort of this up to have creativity that we experienced, you know, be for all that. So would piper. That was our idea not just sort of building mechanical things, we started building in you know, two very important other pillars with prosthetics. That's a pure mechanical object in many ways, but this world of sensing computing. Artificial intelligence programming. This is the world that was emerging at that time in a way that anyone could actually then start afford these things like the raspberry pi at the time, which was thirty five dollar credit card sized computer, which is actually, you know, still in our kit in in such an amazing. Thing in and of itself, what it has done for computing is just remarkable. And yet, and I think I just saw that there's news that that that sometime probably next year. We're going to see the the next big vary. Eagerly-awaited major update to the to the raspberry pi still going to be thirty five dollars expected to be. So it's this low cost highly powerful computing environment. Which again, just just means you bring in more people, you you make it more accessible for everyone to get in on this this crazy kind of maker. He coding, you know, sort of thing that's happening. Right. And I think that's the trend. We're seeing that's a neighboring a lot of this is that the technology is affordable for everyone. You know? What's in your iphone, the individual pieces inside of there? You can go on a website right now. And by almost every single part yourself for an affordable price. So the missing link was actually designing and experienced that. Even a child could go through and have a positive experience. It's a user experience challenge. Not so much a technology bit the technologies hair, and it's just improving more and more. We focus on it. Piper was how we actually leverage that in a way that you know, you package in a box, and you have that magical experience that you mentioned that your daughter said, hey, you know, I can build a computer because that's the spark that years later. You know, kids look back and say, hey, that was at thing that convinced me that I go in that direction. Whether they wanted to go into engineering or medicine or law, whatever their chosen profession is we want that magic spark. And you know, the technology was an enabler of that. Yeah. Absolutely. Now, this is what we have here is the second version of the piper computer kit. So there was a there was a part one. Yeah. This is the sequel and that one you initially launched on. Kickstarter right. How like what was what was your team? Like at this point. How much time? Did you spend on it prior to the Kickstarter? And what was that experience? Like, yeah. Yeah. That was a wild experience. It. Sure, you know, we kept a lot of if you go back and look at the, you know, the original Kickstarter things like a wooden computer that you build, you know, we preserve that all the way through, you know, those days were scrappy we prototype. You know every day we talked a lot of kids actually originally. We'd you know wasn't. It wasn't clear that we should even have kids make the computer. We didn't know if kids could actually come out the other end with a working, computer. So with the daily sort of iteration. It was really fun. We tweaked the kit until you know, we could in a single setting sit down with your average sort of seven to twelve year old, and then have them sort of successfully build it without any help. So we sort of made it easier or harder. You know, we didn't want it too easy. This wasn't about something that you saw. Snap together. And seconds. We wanted kids to feel. Yes, I'm building a real, computer. And so those early design, you know, sessions were really important to tweak the bonds. So that you come up with that positive that confidence building because what you want what we wanted to avoid was when we started hearing things, especially on age ages eleven twelve hey, I'm not good at math or I'm not good at. I'm not creative. You start to hear these things especially those age ranges. We wanted to get in as early as possible convince everyone, you know, every young child that this is something they can do and those early Kickstarter days were, you know, the the the seeds of that they're really fun. And and you could see what persisted all the way through that. Absolutely. And we're hearing from people who were who were getting involved in the Kickstarter at the time features that they all man, you know, this would be really cool. If it did this went into your future Bank. It was very collaborative in a part of our product. You know, the heart has. This raspberry pi edition of Minecraft, which is a really popular at the time. We learned that from kids the idea for you know, the core of quite in the software. It was coming from kids telling us, hey that raspberry pi that's a computer can play mine crafts, and I'd never heard of it. Because let's let's be real Minecraft is is the world for a whole lot of kids. And I had never heard of it before. So they brought a they brought this up time and time again until you know, we finally sat down and started playing playing through Minecraft and found out that it was the perfect environment for representing the three world, which is great. When you need to instruct kids about how the wire things up. So it had that Tien that was really important in the beginning. Yeah. And I and I have to say so so we were talking a little bit before the show about mine craft and my both my daughters five and nine there. They definitely follow more into the roadblocks camp than the Minecraft camp. But I I have a really good feeling. That my older daughter, especially because she's the one that's had more interaction with this. So far she's like right in that sweet spot. I think the age range of this of the piper computer, she's nine is gonna come out of this like with a with a much bigger appreciation of mine craft. And I think what I what I thought was so cool. What what I feel is? So ingenious about this product is that when you're utilizing Minecraft, obviously, you're pulling the children, you know, in to a learning environment that they already like see you've eliminated this like, oh, well now, I have to learn this new thing that super complicated. You know, these coding blocks or whatever. And then the experience itself replicates certain pieces of the hardware, you know, within the within what you call story mode. So for example, there's a there's a part in Minecraft where these pins right here are represented, and you show the colored wires extending off of them and the challenge eventually figure it out. Is to actually in the real world. Grab those colored wires connected to those pins in the second. You do you see the energy kind of pulsing in the Minecraft screen, and you realize that the Microsoft is really walking you through these foundational elements of building a computer once you do that. Of course, then you touch these contacts together once it's plugged in. And now your character magically moves forward, you just created through the experience itself. The ability for your character to navigate it. And it's just it's kind of a weird mine twisting thing because like we were talking about it it really melds or kind of creates a connection between this weird virtual world and the real world in such a unique way. And it's such a great way to learn. Yes, that's a beautiful description part of. Yes. The, you know, having a familiar form that kids, you know, we call this sort of the Trojan horse learning, you know, some taking something kids already obsessed with. Combining that with the foundational ideas, you know, in three d world, whether it's roadblocks blocks or Minecraft or fortnight, we you know, we wanted to do as a line with something that kids would be sort of excited to jump into. And then once they've jumped in us that times expose what we think are the foundations. So what you described there sort of, you know, how do you actually place this wire from point a to point b a any three D environment is a great way to walk kids through, you know, what used to be abstract schematics is now a very sort of, you know, video audio animated guided exploration that's much easier entry point, and then, you know, later on gets more and more complex. We love the the narrative of learn to code, for example. And we see a lot of great coding tools out there. What we find is. When you start with putting wall of code in front of a child. Or ask them, you know, even when they're sort of these visual drag and drop programming environments, which we do have in our kid, we find that it's hard to connect those with ideas kids will sort of care about initially. And so what we've done with piper as building this hands on experiences sort of engaging from the beginning and had had the hook with a three d world. They'd be familiar with the game that they'd be familiar with. And then once you've progress through the story mode, then we expose, hey, if you want to sort of make that LED blink the way you want hairs hair, some coating blocks that you can use to modify. So it's it's coating, but exposing a physical way, and we've found that that's that's been a much more successful journey for us to get kids into the world of what I call creative computing, you know, not just computing, but what you can create with it. Yep. Yep. And the coating blocks like you like you said there is piper code, and then there's the piper story mode. Right. Yeah. There's a few different elements that you can get into within the computer, depending. Oh, and this is this is a good example of well, I think this is the first level, right? Where you have to kind of connect. You can kind of see that. There's the the energy is trying to to kind of pull through. Yeah. Kind of gets. You familiar with this concept that you know, electricity currents travel in a certain way, and you have to kind of build a conduit in order for it to pass through entirely, and you know, as you learn these concepts, you go into another level, you know, you out the right thing and boom great. You've passed the level and piper walks you through and then at some point get to the point to where you're creating these in the physical realm and not just the the virtual realm. I just I love it. And we were having a blast with it. We're gonna talk more about piper kit piper computer kit to in a moment. Because this is what you've basically just announced last couple of weeks. And that's what I've been playing with. If you can't tell I've been having probably as much fun as my daughter playing with it. But first, let's take a break. Thank the sponsor. This episode of triangulation this episode is brought to you by capterra. It's twenty nineteen. 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One thing that I saw what were the big requests in. What were you able to fulfil going to the really exciting? You know, one of the things we started seeing was a lot of schools are reaching out and saying, hey, can this be part of our stem solution? Can this be part of our maker space can be part of our after school coding program, and as we started going in and working with more districts and more teachers that they had certain requests. And so for learning to code, you know, screen size is very important. You know, one of the big things is we've expanded the screen size. So that it better it allows more real estate when you're learning to code. We have piper code in there, which is our visual programming language, but you know, you could put python or any other programming language that you're already working with larger screen size. It's robustness came up quite often in the classroom. So a teacher has to do is at the end of the semester. And we have a curriculum that we ship for educators. So they have lesson plans. We offer training in addition to the kit. Those big learning was that for meeting the needs of educators. You know, it had to be more than just handing hardware, so training and curriculum or an important part in that curriculum at the end the last thing that's done. Is you disassemble the kit the children, they work two to one? They they usually sort of collaborate. We love them to work together in at least in pairs, and you take apart the kit, and then you can hand that kit to the next group of students. So it's much more rebuildable every screw nut. That's in the in the kit. You can disassemble reassemble over and over that's important for us to increase access. Yeah. Yeah. None of the screws are screwing into would itself. It's alright it's all going into some sort of a metal receiver exile. Which makes it very easy to disassemble and not like ruined. The the the the rivets or whatever all all reversible redesigned the kit to support that better. And then also for. Extended playtime, you know, we've made it. So that you could plug the piper into the wall. That was something we hadn't thought of initially, but was important in a setting where you wanted to run the kit for maybe three or four hours. So the these things all sort of add up to much more robust solution for educators. And and then for the creative aspects, you know, having a larger screen real estate is very important for us to to enable more design, right? Yeah. Mine crops a great tool for three d modeling. But piper is also great for learning about circuits, and then connecting that with physical programming. Yeah. So we're really building that ecosystem of creation across physical electrical software and the new kit supports that beautifully. Yeah. There's that's my daughter on the screen right now building trying to capture it as we were going along. And she was just having such a blast. Like it really the comparison to Lego's is. So so apt because now when I think about it like how m- how many things has my daughter Lucy Bill. And and what like how how has she created those and by and large I would say in the in the real world, it's largely it's it's LEGO. It's following an instruction manual of some sort. And actually the piper does ship with a really cool put it on the overhead a really cool kind of blueprint approach. And I mean, you know, it makes it makes perfect sense. I was able to kind of kind of help help my daughter Lucy in the kind of the flow of the directions. All right. This is the next page is the next page. But really, I just kind of challenged her to to kind of look at these things and be like, all right? Well, is that facing the right way should that notch be up there down there and kind of follow the instructions on the blueprint? And you know, like like, you also said, and I think this was important to our experience. It wasn't the kind of thing that you could just throw together in twenty minutes. It took a little while it took some time. But what I thought was so wonderful is that she never got bored. You know, what I mean, she? Really wanted to see this thing created, and so she stuck with it and made it happen. And she was able to and I love that you show the the blueprint there. I mean, we wanted to show a little bit the real process of solving problems building a computer is complex. And so we wanted that experience to reflect that and we know, you know, you could see from your daughter she was able to do it. And and and we know that any sort of child is able to do this. So we wanted to just help but not too much because real world is about solving and biggest problems and blueprint reflects those hints and everyone's able to get through it. And then feels really proud at the end if it's too easy. It doesn't it doesn't feel like you're doing the real thing. Totally and that that's not just physical building. It's the same for electronics and the same for programming. You know, everything in here is is there's no sugar coating the wires LED's the buttons. They are the same buttons that you would go into from the manufacturer. And and by the same tools that we? Engineers, they are the real tools, and so that's a part of our authentic core values expose the real world as much as possible down to its core. And then create those experiences like that guided blueprint that just gently nudge, nudge people along in a way, maybe they didn't realize the beginning that they they had it in them. And I believe I saw I've found somewhere read an interview where you had mentioned kid of some someone had created like like when I think of like modulate around the system, I I automatically go to the technology aspect because it is a raspberry pi. And there's so much creativity happening around the raspberry pi. But I think I read that the that you mentioned that there was somebody who had created like a carrying handle. So it could be carried like a laptop case like all kinds of ideas about how they you know, we we wanted it to feel open like, oh, I could go in and modify that, you know, one child fell very strong h should have a handle and. Yeah. Carrying case and three D printed a handle and screwed it in. So we love that. That's exactly how we know where we're kind of moving in the right direction when we invite that sort of, you know, direct creativity, and sort of solving problems in a way that you know, they felt that that's that. That's what they wanted to modify. Once he more of that. And the raspberry pi as a, you know, one of the most successful computers of all time is also a great place where there's lots of projects that people pull the raspberry pi out of the kit, and then are then able to sort of build their own smart device. And you know, instead of having this whole shell of a computer were really excited about is what what people do next after that. Now that they feel confident they can remove the raspberry pi plug it into, you know, their own monitor or we're making this thing works plugged into this monitor just swap out that SD card with a an ST. Mike rusty card that has a different image on it. I just saw news a couple of days ago that now like windows ten can be installed on a raspberry pi. Yeah. Watch this tank, computer. It's crazy. Yeah. And we just want to show people like what the potential was. And so it's really the steps afterwards. That are really the things. We're proud of. Yeah. Kids sort of going beyond and inventing an open ended ways. So obviously Minecraft pie. Addition software running on the inside. I guess what? When thinking of is like open source versus not as open source like what about that? What about creative? You know, how how kids or anyone really can can working kind of with the open source aspects of this. What what kind of are they going to run into? If they go down that road. What I love about the like the community. That's come up around here things like the Minecraft raspberry. Pi addition are creative Commons, and that's you know, a very much in our line. We we wanna make sure that the standard tools, especially for these educational purposes are available to everyone without sort of barriers. So I think round the rasberry. By a lot of the content. That is out. There is all under creative Commons license. And so our philosophy is definitely let's do whatever we can to make sure that we're maximizing access does many people as possible. And so, you know as much as possible we like things to be fully open and fair at the same time right on can kids can create. I mean, I I know that within the the Minecraft story mode. There are elements of it that are more open world sort of things like why don't you come up with something on your own and create something is it possible for for kids who are creating with these to share their experiences. With other piper users any any plans for some sort of like a a sharing community of sorts of that. You know, I it is what it is out of the box. But then it can be opened up and expanded to a whole host of what everybody else is doing with it. Yeah. We we love when when you see our social media, if you go on Twitter there, for example. Think our handle is start with piper. We love to see people sharing what they've built whether it's physically or inside the game, you know, using something like rasberry pie. Minecraft kids can do what they're used to which is creating their you know, ideas and three D little blocks. And so that's that's always been a core. Part of that software. What's really exciting is when they start to envision three combined with some circuit a good exercise. If you have children that are playing Minecraft frequently is to ask them to show, you what they're creating in their houses. You know? I was really surprised to see, you know, one nine year old had this elaborate treasure chest that detected when her friends came in and the virtual world and the floor would kind of drop out that'd be some lava. It was booby-trapped, but that's showing real fluency of of computational fluency, this is conditional logic. This is you know. You know, definitely the level that we we wanted to embody for our kids. And so this kind of guests to this whole language of creative computing that we we see that, you know, instead of math and just math and English, which we all agree is really important in schools. You know, the new language of of the future is is is imbued computing. And so we think that, you know, creative computing technology sort of the next second language, let's say, and so I think these tools are like I mentioned with this story of the nine year old and demonstrating the booby-trapped charter chefs that fluency is what we're trying to amplify. Yeah. The development of their their attention to logic. Yes. And yeah, these are all skills that will only increase in necessity in in the in just the real world the workplace when as they grow up. It's going to be more and more important, obviously, they're going to see a whole lot of. This proliferation of AI were at the beginning of that right now. I don't know how or if or win that that comes into play with the piper. But I mean that's another skill that that could potentially. Yes. Something to learn from as well, I think what we're seeing is, you know, the the jobs of the future. We don't we don't even know exactly what they're going to be. We just know that those jobs are going to be very different from what they are right now. So I think the education system is trying to adopt at the moment. And so our our part in this is sort of make make our statements about what we think are important AI, robotics automation are important trends that we know are going to be part of the future workforce. So we're trying to do is to just expose the fundamentals right now at the earliest age possible. So that those I those ideas aren't so obstruct the robots are not coming to get us. We need the program them as much as we keep thinking that they're going to. Yeah. Yeah. We're not not quite. There yet. And we certainly need folks program them who have that fluency that I'm talking about. Sure. So so we'll bring about that future faster. If we have more more kids having experiences like piper and things like that. And and in that process, I think we'll have a deeper understanding about you know, what does a I mean for for the future really excited about that as the future of, you know, if you think about the economy, and what we need, you know, we we need innovators who understand technology. Whether it's in the medical domain, for example, where where I did things like prosthetics. That's a great example. If you have more diverse creators thinking about those problems and having that fluency from an early age, we're going to see much more creative solutions to problems faster. And I think that's important for just as us as a society. Absolutely, absolutely. How do you think? Schools are doing with computer science. I know, you know, I it's come a long way is vastly different from when I was a kid, and, you know, had had some, you know, computer in the classroom, and all it really did was play Oregon trailers. Yeah. Really think of very many instructive and definitely not in this sense ways that that teachers back then were were trying to educate us around. You know, what the computer could be and everything have has schools kind of caught up. Do you think there are some places where they're falling behind her? They're not paying enough attention to it. What do you think? Yeah. I think I think the US schools are. Catching up in that. I think we all agree that this is an important thing to have kids exposed to computer science. I think we're we're still have a lot of work to do is how that actually gets put in the fabric of the dailies or school system. It's still somewhat optional at least in the US other countries. It's not optional. So I think you know, what what's really important is actually the teachers is what we found was one of the limiting factors is that you have a workforce of teachers right now, maybe don't have any background in programming. They also maybe aren't as confident to dive in and so part of the piper too. And and the classroom piper classroom. We call it, which is the hardware. Plus, all the other things we think educators need part of what we're doing. There is a dressing the r- the root cause of what we think is blocking say computer science in schools, which is let's go. in there. Let's make this turn key. So that a teacher, regardless of what background they're coming from. We already know, you know, any kid can build their own computer and program. And so why not bring it up to the next level and have any teacher be able to teach confidently skills like computer science. And so, you know, part of our approach hair is, you know, give teachers that same experience, but not just computer science. Give them the whole picture of creative computing, physical electrical programming in context. It's not obstruct. And then we're we're seeing great results now in US schools, you know, worrying about six hundred pilots right now with the classroom kits. And I think this is a kind of approach we encourage others to jump into. Yeah. That's awesome. I know that I know that you've also been involved in hack Athans with with piper. How how has that kind of material is what was locally what great is once you've gone through? What I consider. The you know the boot camp we have piper. This the building the story mode. Teachers who who wanted to give these open ended, you know problem solving sessions. You know, how haka thoughts or whatever. Whatever they you know, you wanna call. It was basically session where we come up with a problem and get in a room, and then make solutions to those problems. So what's great about piper? Is that the same parts that you use in that kit, for example, the raspberry pi can be removed, and then, you know, put into you know, solution that sense is your air quality, right or senses, the temperature and humidity for scientific problem that that someone's facing? So so these are things we're seeing pop up more and more and they're good reflection. That we're getting to that creative fluency that that's all part of our mission empire kids. Yeah. Right on one thing just occurred to me when we were talking a little bit about, you know, going in the classroom and technique. And how that you know, how how schools are doing around this. I realized that a lot of times they're the hurdle to overcome kind of lies in the hands of parents who may be to some degrees are thinking of computer science in terms of that tablet screen or that very passive kind of experience, you know, screen devices, the kind of silo silo the user away from from learning, it becomes kind of passive thing. And I and I do think that something like piper helps helps to bridge that divide. But how how do you think parents can can be better involved or better better understand kind of the I don't know the the complicated scenario that we're in right now, where technology isn't one thing. It can be many things yet parents will be resistant to it because it is technology. You know what? I mean, we see we see a lot a lot of parents who engage with us. You know, they're they're coming from a world of let's say, ipods, and the home that are primarily being used to consume content. For example, you know, classic thing is what you know, my kids watching YouTube videos of Minecraft when they're not playing Minecraft, they're watching hours of YouTube there. So I think this was a reality that we were seeing as we went into homes and talk of the parents, you know, we we didn't think solution of no screens is the right one. I think coexisting. Thing you know, and piper was meant to be sort of. Let's take the screen time, but make it valuable make educational and so for parents, I think you you sat down with your nine year old Lucienne and built a kit together. Those are the kind of experiences I would like to encourage for the parents to get familiar themselves with the, you know, with the foundations pipers as much for the the parents around the kids as they are for the kids themselves. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's an important next step is, you know, parent parents could by today, and and build it, and I think that becomes an important attitude change for how technology can be for their kids, which is it's about creation in addition to consumption. Sure. Yeah. Although they will always also enjoy sitting down with YouTube and watch something else. But giving them the opportunity to get excited about being interacting as well. So that that isn't always just the Veneto kind of go to place when it comes to technology creating more options, and I know that having the piper in in our house has definitely created that they want they want to turn to that thing instead of maybe asking for a tablet, or or whatever to watch something passably, and you also advocate for creative computing, which is kind of kind of what we're talking about here. Right. Like, creative computing is really just all these pieces coming together. So that someone can feel empowered to take take charge and create you've done a lot of work in this field. And I know that you've done, you know, some of your talks have kind of focused on this. But just to kind of like route us outland talked about the importance of that and kind of what you envision that turning like the piper kind of turning into without a mind. I think you know, computation computer science, we talked a bit about electronics the physical world, you know, the these are all ideas that fall under an umbrella. I call creative computing, which is about not just the individual pieces, but all of them together being put forward in a way that you're solving. You're creating things rather than consuming. And so what we're trying to do with piper. And all of our products expose all of the elements. And now to me of you know, what we think is foundational. So that anyone who has an idea for a problem? They wanna solve can can eventually build it themselves. And so that starts with things like, you know, being exposed to the raspberry pi. And and being able to be comfortable wiring sensors up directly and being comfortable would adding in programming. So you know, I think the future of creating competing is exactly what we're doing. Now is showing that you know, kids can do it. And probably if a kid can do anyone. Can do it. So we're really excited about that for sort of exposing, you know, the whole world this. Yeah. I love it. I love what you're doing play piper dot com. Production people should go to to kind of take more. We didn't even talk about the excess series. You guys had an announcement a couple of months ago new accessory kind of kits that follow the same aesthetic. Right. Like one of them is a game controller, and it's totally game controller that you build made made out of wood. But it's a game controller nonetheless. Yeah. Yeah. All our all our things. Follow the same DNA. Great hands on you got to build it. You'll understand the foundation, and that's going to be things that your kids are really excited to jump in and do on their own. Yeah. I know that my kids will will enjoy at some point getting the game controller even though my five year old. Maybe we didn't talk about this during the episode, but we talked about it prior to the show her, and I had some really great a like a really great time collaboratively controlling a character begins in the early stages of piper. Your. You're left with these wires that you've wired up in order to go forward. You got the touch the two colors together. And that moves your character Ford. So it's a very interactive. But in a very different sort of way than I think we're all used to having a controller move character dead. She's she's telling me touch the blue wire. So that it moves forward while I touch these wires. So that it jumps. So that we can get through this part. You know, and it was like, wow, we're both working together to to control this character. I know at some point they're going to be like give me a control the control. I love that collaborative. And that was definitely intentional on our part, making sure that the experience was, you know, something not actually tall you a little bit about you know, solving problems is all about t- more goal. Two million. They're not going to invent the future without working together. You know, great as the team. And absolutely those are those early early sparks of that. Yeah. And and you know, it taught her the lesson that on a on the technology side of things when you press up you're essentially touching these two contacts together. I mean, and so that that understanding of how it works under the hood is is invaluable and something that I never would have imagined. I would have approached with my five year old, you know. But yet this is a concept that she gets now touch the contacts, the circuit is complete the character moves forward and she's five and she gets. Yeah. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah. Well, you know, my daughter is incredible. But the piper also allows this for all. All children. And that's why I'm so excited that I got the chance to to bring you here today. And thank you for us. Well, just have a lot of fun. And and I I love this where we're at right now with technology, and how impounding that is four children really for me. If I can do something to help my daughter's realized that they have the ability to choose who they want to be and to spark create a spark in something like technology. They they know their dad goes to work and his on YouTube. That's the thing they care about most as far as my job is concerned. But they know that I work with technology. But this allows them to have some ownership in it. And and to really understand. And like you said this is kind of the the beginnings of when they look back. They can be like, well, I remember when I created a computer when I was nine and maybe that led to this. Maybe it didn't. But it was still a great experience. You know what? I mean, they have the ability to make that decision. Yeah. I'm really excited to to see how it turns out your daughters. And now, we have many more stories, exactly. Like that right on Joel Sadler of founder of piper. Of course. Play piper dot com. How much does the kid is at two ninety nine for kind of the starting point. Yeah. Yeah. And then for educators, it's you know, you can go on our website piper classroom bundles different pricing. Yeah. Okay. And okay. Well, then I'm going to have to throw my through my school towards the website and had them had them take a look because this this fits in. It's a Montessori school, and it's like all hands on's on. Yeah. Percent in line with with their mission. So Joel thank you so much for coming up in you, drove up from San Francisco, and all the rain and everything thank you for my pleasure. Battling the elements anytime for piper parents right on cool. There's been a lot of fun talking with Joel we talk with a lot of really amazing people on the show each and every week, and you can check it out. Go into twit dot TV slash T, R Y for triangulation go there, and you will find all of our episodes more than three hundred eighty four of them. We've got quite a few interviews. So if you haven't gone through the list, you can find so many awesome names and get caught up. A we do record live every Friday at eleven thirty AM Pacific two thirty PM eastern nineteen thirty UT. See you can always watch us live. If you like twit dot TV slash live. But you probably just want be subscribe to the podcast, and again, that's dot TV slash TRI. For all the information to subscribe. I'm Jason Howell. Thanks to our producer, Anthony for setting this all up and have the making this go so seamlessly and thanks to you for watching. We'll see next week on triangulation. By everybody.

piper piper US capterra Joel Sadler Lucy Bill Capterra Apple Jaipur ni McConnell Jamaica Jason Howell founder piper YouTube Harry Potter Jamaica place
Josh Topolsky on why Bustle Media Group and The Outline make strange (but good) bedfellows

Digiday Podcast

40:33 min | 6 months ago

Josh Topolsky on why Bustle Media Group and The Outline make strange (but good) bedfellows

"Walk to the digital podcast. I'm Brian Marcy this week. I'm joined by Josh Topolski. Who is the editor in chief of the Culture and Innovation in Group at Bustle Digital Group? That includes the outline which Topolski founded and bustle bought almost a year ago as well as titles wake input put Mike and Inverse. Josh discuss what seemed like a strange marriage with bustle why the world needs yet. Another tack publication with input and the current turns state of blandness and digital media. Join Josh Welcome back to the PODCAST. I'm happy to be here so three years years ago. You're on here. It was Kinda early days. I guess of the outlet very early okay and you were talking to me about About why the outline should exist exist and I wanNA use this as sort of an entree into what you're doing now and you said everything in digital media is insanely boring now. Everything looks the same. Everything sounds the same hm three years on where are we well I think that's still. It's still a problem. Sameness Sameness by the way a side note on that When I remember this vividly when you put the podcast up the I think the headline for the post was too much sameness and digital media. And then you know there's a thousand bots that read tweet digital and it was like this wall all on twitter of there's too much sameness and digital media repeated by all of these like digital may not like spam bonds that you employ the Brady thing but there were a lot. There's a lot of things that just like take news sources and re tweet headlines or whatever I think no I I did a screen grab of tweeted it because I thought it was a funny part of the you know piece of the post There's there's still too much sameness bit. Actually say I mean a lot of that sameness has been Camin. Some of it has been extinguished by that kind of calamity of the media industry. I think one of the things that's happened over the last three years since we launched the outline is you've seen I talked about this. I wrote this manifesto before we actually even got funding for the outline about like the kind of I read this thing. A medium called your your media. Business will not be saved or something like that. I can not remember the title town so long. Yeah but you know It was about this idea that there's a lot of people making a lot. Love sort of cheap recycled recycled a repeatable. Stuff in that's like at some point you have to draw a line somewhere so I think that I mean it's unfortunate the way it has happened that a lot of people in media lost jobs a lot of companies have gone under But I do think it's part of a calling of saying like what is the audience. What is a real audience for all of this stuff? How many of them are there for each site that wants to have you know the same version of the same story? told in exactly the same way. Is there a real. Is that a real business or is it. Are we starting to realize that. There's only certain parts of this that are going to work and not work for audience. Yeah what was your big takeaway from the outline experience. I mean because you are always I think I feel like during your. I don't know if it'll work. Yeah get I want to see if it's GonNa work still working by the way getting. It's working different dependent company. As an independent the my big takeaway sameness big takeaway is in terms of the business. There are so many things that have to be perfect for something as small mall but as ambitious as the outline to work on its own. We didn't hit every one of those things you know we didn't get. I don't think we not. I think we had an amazing product and amazing ad product brands. That we've worked with continue to work with it loved it. We didn't have the scale to go out to everybody we needed to talk to and say. Hey we're doing this thing. Hey we've got this great valuable audience audience. We're not the biggest in the world but we're doing something that really adds value and find all of those advertisers that we should be working with. I think one of the big lessons was Even in in essence area we do everything right and we certainly didn't you still. There's always that question of is there an apparatus around it that can support what you need to do. That has the the scale or the The connections necessary to make it all work right so I mean it's one piece of it I think it's also was interesting to see To Watch what it's like when you're not in the news by the way we launched like a month after trump got elected and I we were launched by when we talked And and that and trump has changed the whole media landscape and and I mean not just because of this fake news shed and you know The you know the way. Hey that he attacks the media but the media landscape has has so much information now that his new every day and every week that that there's an APP there's less of of an appetite I think for the curiosities for the more. Some of them were creative stuff and you know those that stuff is harder to get a word in edgewise. Because you've got so much complexity in the General News Cycle. Now yeah takes all the oxygen out of the room. Yeah and people are exhausted by the end of the day. You know. I remember when we were launching the outline before four trump. I mean obviously. This was all happening but you felt like at the end of the day. You want it to get you sit down with something or at lunchtime. You'd want to sit down with a bigger piece or something. That wasn't necessarily topical. That wasn't about what is happening in DC Or some you know horrible thing. That trump is symmetric. Now it's like you feel exhaustion at the at on your when you get a break vacation start earlier. Have you noticed this. I mean this is real. I mean people start revving up for a vacation like a week earlier than they used to. Now we have I see people. They're just gone on. You know it's like a week before the week that everybody takes off and people are gone. You're desperate to get away from the kind of crush of news that we have every day so i WanNa talk about that when when you decided that the Elian was going to work as an independent business but that the brand should continue deal if there are ways that it could work as an independent business but they weren't don't waste that we could keep doing the best stuff I mean we. There are scenarios where it could continue to be independent but two things happened one is one is we wanted to do more not less churns like something like input which is something. We started talking about When the outline was still an independent brand And I started talking to Brian Goldberg. which is a conversation? Did Not envision. Having I did not envision having ever and it turned out to be like a pretty interesting conversation so but you know I think that there are ways that we could have kept being independent. But it wasn't. We couldn't have done a lot of ambitious. You had to be part of a larger organization. Yeah I I think so. Why why was I don't WanNa dwell too much on a Ba- Y was bustle? The right place but we were talking to some other folks and in fact. We're very far along with another the conversation But the conversation I started with Brian was became a lot. More interesting. And and the the Y.. Bustle I think is has a lot in in common with the conversation that I had with Jim Bank off that Marty Mohan I had when we were talking about getting the team out of. AOL Albion Gadget team and going and building the verge. which didn't exist And we were talking to different people saying where could this work and the conversation with. Jim was very much like the conversation with Brian in that. Here's a business that exists. But it's not you know it's a it's a healthy business. It's a growing business but is there something that can be added onto something built That that helps it kind of accelerated growth and accelerate some of the ideas that the core business has and that was so that. When I started talking to Brian it was very much similar surprising? ISING explain why there was a lineman because I think from the outside. You Know Brian Goldberg. I I mentioned before we started this. He holds the record for the number of digital podcast. CAST and I want to try to get Brian back on. If he's listening. Brian Stop dodging. Wow but I know it's a chance of threat as a threat slash jobs out there but I would think. It's like opposites right. I mean because like you know on the surface right because you know. Brian founded founder of bleacher. Report bleacher got a lot of like arose for doing a lot of the sameness. You seem to be talking about the airline being opposite to explain why there was a meeting of the minds. Well I think that what the the opposite things actually part of the attraction And why it makes sense You're right I mean I think we come from very different places aces We see we've made very different things historically when I talk to Brian the conversation what he what. He was demonstrating showing to me. You know when you look across the women's lifestyle brands like report early daily or or bustle. They're they're different in different audiences in different audiences and some of them a really big and some of them are not that big and we had this conversation about could should media businesses exist where everything is in trying to get to forty million. You know unique niks and trying to be the the monolithic piece and I think a place where we really connected and I think a place where Brian wants. The company to grow was excited about growing was. Let's figure figure out what those different brands are and build them to the right size and find the right brands that one. You know advertise on them. Find the right audiences that want to come and visit them and the collection of those the things makes the business the overall business stronger that that was the thing that was most surprising when I I talked to him was that even though our strategies for building businesses were totally. Different our alignment on this idea. That businesses shouldn't be one-size-fits-all and that there's room in a healthy business for smaller sites like the outline and and really big sites like bustle and everything in between if you run the business right. And that was a place where I felt like we could align have aligned on on building something. That's that's pretty new based on on what they have built on what we have built. So is that something more complicated than having lake. You know some kind of like sexy You know high minded stuff but then having the SEO driven recaps of name name the name the show that is trending at that moment. Yeah you know. There's there's a large look every publication. Does that should've sometimes. It's in the back of the House operation every publication every no. I'm agreeing with you. Know everybody does a new pope Recap I haven't but I want to but but you understand this is and this is something that to me I think one of the I believe somewhat unfortunate Product of where we are in terms of the model the business this model for media right now but the reality is even the Times The Times even the New York magazine. The cut people love the. I love the cut. Amazing from the most important journalism in the world. But they're also doing you know. Seo Friendly searchable content that gets lot high high volume a AH of of clicks and is done for that express purpose and they need because they need to sell ads against it. Because then you'd have a certain amount of volume two ads against because Social Networks have forced the media industry into very uncomfortable and relatively Difficult Position Right now and I think that That's that's reality but also we're trying to reclaim some of that space and doing the things that we were doing it. The outline and combining those with a skit with such a scale of something like beat each e is part of the way we try to reclaim some of that ground so your portfolio is the culture and innovation and I wanNA talk about what exactly it is. It's the outline in its inverse Input input and then my mic naughtily. Daily didn't get no Daily is firmly. The women's lifestyle character. I said give me Zo report. All right one last minute report So explain what that is and do you. Are you look like yield you both in this urges like no I just do the high minded stuff. It's very crafted. It's very we're so I will say just there's also questions question just on that point about the the two levels were saying like there's the lower quality and then the higher quality there's actually a way to bring up the quality of everything and I would say that across the company you know e- on both sides of that in both the culture and Innovation Group and On the women's lifestyle where everybody's working really hard to make sure that everything is good. You know I didn't mean to like actually 'cause I do that's actually a good point because it it isn't like bifurcated another like longtime guest. Neil Vogel is actually done a really good job of succeeding in upping the quality of you know the SEO that We all knew about DOT COM for. Yeah Yeah well I mean Jeanette Nicer Sir and one of the things. I've learned watching inverse. Do what it does is that. There's there's a there are huge audiences that are looking for you. Know They WanNa understand like the star wars universe science in versus science. It's really entertainment Science we do some innovation stuff like the future of energy space travel. It's you And and you know huge part of of the inverse audiences looking for entertainment coverage particularly around phantoms. Right so rick. And morty or the marvel movies or game of thrones that kind of stuff and one of the things that's interesting about their models they write these great stories which I love it turns it turns out I'm actually somewhat addicted to that are in a lot of people looking visited like okay. I understand what happened in the New Star Wars movie. I want to go like ten levels. Deeper on like some weirdness. About like the backstory of like where like how Ray got the you know this gold colored lightsaber or whatever and there are people all over the Internet talking about this and there's only a few places where people are really intelligently only putting that together it's a really interesting form of journalism they kind of didn't exist up until like probably this last decade which is something like not recaps and not the actual like you know? These aren't like fact-based reports. They're almost like collecting ideas into something that makes sense for like an average reader or even be above average reader. WHO's interested in that stuff but sorry that's a little bit of a tangent but that's like the kind of stuff that works really well in the Seo world because people are actually looking forward but also is pretty damn interesting and pretty pretty well done So so just in terms of getting back to that question quality me I'm doing. I'm doing everything that we that that I can do and helping everywhere I can to make great things for people to see and read and experience on the Internet With all of those brands so there's inverse we talked about that. Yeah okay then. There's the outline of the outlines mission is as remained keeping it weird to be. Yeah that'd be though is that the the New Yorker for millennials. Yeah yeah which I am I am which is a you know. It's funny because the New Yorker is something totally different Than Yorker is like. I mean still does the New Yorker stuff. Then you're also has to play sure the news game and the SEO. Oh Games are now. They blog a lot about trump. And and you know the end of democracy as we know it and you know the coming apocalypse that we're all living in But yeah I mean I thought Oughta what we're we're we're here I don't know we'll see it's twenty twenty I think can happen But outline keeps is not. We're not chasing news. News the outlines telling big Thoughtful thought provoking sometimes Controversial Stories And I would say that you know Mike Mike is also in. The group is doing more of that. You know one of the interesting. What is Mike's lane now? With so Mike Actually Mike has many ways going back to some of its core. What would really work for it at its core? You know there was a period where I think in the outline even wrote about this period of Micra got a little bit out of control with you know what size is it should be where its focus should be. And it's sort of like a one-size-fits-all for everything I think you know where it's focusing. Now focusing on the senator of interaction between culture her and and politics and Society how we how we treat each other and how we treat ourselves What's happening in society? And how it impacts you and what you can do to impact. What's happening in society? I think there's a lot more of that happened. So it's still millennial focus. Yeah and it's still in there still a polit. Politics are a big part of it. Yeah Social Justice is a big part of it. But it's a question of like how you come at that and what stories you tell and I think a good example of that in in in in talking about all of this is you know There's an editor at Mike Guidance Jaffa who was one of the writers who were the outline in the early days and now he's editing culture stuff for for Mike and I think he's bringing something there that that Mike previously didn't have as you said kind of different viewpoint. A different voice and and that whole team is kind of rethinking. What are the cause? If everybody's you know Mike had the right idea which is news. News and What's happening in this world? Like really communicated for a younger audience for an audience. That wasn't raised reading the newspaper. What changed is that? A lot of everybody else started doing the exact same thing including the the big sites right including the post and and the times and so you have to kind of evolve that and I think they're they're much more focused now in terms of what stories they choose to talk about when they choose to talk about them and as a result they have more impact so input. I mean yes you sort of went back to your roots a little bit. Yes like with starting tech site and I think probably I think he came out of the gates sort of trying to answer. Answer the questions that people would have which is why in the world. Another tech site at this point for technology is is. It's a horizontal not vertical. Oh yeah well you know. People always say why people always say why you'd launch anything. Why now why this another one of those? I mean they said the same ending we win. Watch the Verger they did. I mean I mean people were like we have then gadget and we have Gizmodo and we have seen that and we have to business insider and whatever the list goes on and on on. And it's like well it's different. It covers things differently covers. Different things has a different perspective and different attitude a different way of telling stories. You know for me. Input was very much Spending time away from gave me a perspective on it where you know I was able to see more what was working. What wasn't what I liked what I did? And what made me board Lord. When I was starting outline I felt like I had kind of gotten bored with what technology coverage was doing? What made me board and what I didn't like and wait? Start to think about ways of how do something new. What's the Lens? The Lens is to your point about the heart. The the horizontal nature of the point is that The things that we used to think were for specialized and and and For a small segment of the audience have become mainstream and the mainstreaming of that has made those stories way way less interesting even though people still cover them over and over again in addition thing people like the New York Times or covering technology as good if not better than almost anybody else like the the same stories right Nazis on twitter or what's happening on instagram. They hired Taylor Lorenzo. Who's an amazing writer? Who knows more about teens doing than any human being on the planet today podcast podcast guests And and so and so you have to look elsewhere and so I think there's there's places where one I think we can be more a little more like we can be more efficient just with the way you tell l. a. story like things that are important to us are still important. But you don't need to do a thousand words on every story so we're playing around with like the way we actually write the stories themselves yourselves. I we see a big connection between Design and fashion and style. And where. That's all going And Technology and there's a lot of crossover there. There's also also a lot of crossover with gaming and I think exploring that sort of cultural intersection of design. Fashion and technology is really interesting. So we're doing more of that and one of the things that I read this is more about like you have to do it over and over again to really understand it. There's just a lot of bullshit in the way people people talk about what is going on out there. Like what is what they put value in terms of like the most important part of the story. We're trying to find ways to kind of cut through some of that noise and everybody says that it was. What's an example? You know the guy I. This is what I think about all the time. How there's been like how many versions is the next? iphone is with the twelve k but there have been also these like plus versions. And there's been a lot of iphones you know dozens of iphones. If you read an iphone phone review somewhere it's like three thousand words about like the Basil or whatever you know about like the the elegant glass whatever bullshit is like about how. It's took really beautiful phone. I think people are get it you know. Everybody has a pretty beautiful phone in their pocket. There's things you don't have to say anymore. There's things you really do need to say. And how can you make that more efficient and More like how can you say more modern way. How can you do it and not? Maybe a text wall. Maybe it's something that's more like instagram story. You know which we've been doing packaging the packaging and the way it's worded. I mean what you say what you choose to say what you choose to not say but from the approach is different starting attack publication Shen now versus in gadget when Lake. We're in this sort of tech lash. Yeah sort of thing. Where a lot of the beforehand we were talking about the iphone and whether the iphone on whether we'll look back on the iphone being like or horrific development unity? Because when you you know look technology coverage particularly when it came to quote unquote gadgets. was a lot of like. Oh my God. This stuff's amazing now. All of a sudden it's this stuff is killing us so in and that is actually. It's part of what with input that we wanted to kind of. We're trying to address which is like yes. There is a lot of night there are many negative things happening And there are the things that are in technology There is a point where it's like really well. That's a well covered topic and there may be something else to say which is one of the things that we're we're we're looking for every day I mean there's a dozens and maybe hundreds of stories every day that we won't cover because it's just like this is well handled? I do think yes I mean but okay sorry all right. So we're talking about is the IPHONE. We're GONNA look back in twenty years and say this thing was a disaster. Why do we make this Is the current state of reporting warning about technology. The only story to tell and I don't think it is You know is the only story to tell about Amazon. How how bad Amazon is I do? Think there's a lot to say there But I don't think it's the only one and so we're trying to find like what are those other stories like. And what are those other places to look not even about. Is it true we keep looking at Amazon. But I mean we did this story early on We have this at their Alvarez. Who came over from gadget? who is a genius when it comes to? He's a true like sneaker head But also get total nerd and he did the story about like you know the technology that's being used in sneaker production and Connie went into this. He's making an algae shoe or whatever. There's really interesting stuff happening there. which is an intersection? That almost you know most tech sites aren't even thinking about are talking about. Is there a story. Sorry there so that's the type of store you want to tell part of partly. Yeah Yeah Yeah for sure and also there are stories that I want to tell there are things that we some of them that. We're trying to figure out how to tell you don't no yet. You're sort of developing in real time you know We want to be critical of twitter or facebook. We have a writer who pitched us some stories of the day and it was stories stories about Subscription Services and it was an all four of the pitches were really negative and I was like. Is there anything here are any of these good and if there are like can we explain. Meanwhile they are good news food subscriptions or whatever and I'm trying to figure out like where are the pockets of innovation still happening. And where are the things that we need to be really critical of that that haven't yet been fully addressed. But you don't WanNa go overboard with the 'cause like everyone goes from one side of the soccer field to the other side and I feel like now it's it's like all about the negatives of tech will you right and that's an the talking about. We did we just did a bunch of reporting around Sonos this really weird. It's like recycle program grabbed like killed products and they were doing these killing these software updates and it was you know we were very critical of the company. I'm also a guy who's I love Sonos and I've invested a lot of money and time back. Check people backtrack people have forgotten. All righty right. Well you know so. We think it's worthwhile to talk about it and to be really unvarnished in talking about it I think there is a there is a in in technology. Generally there's a lot of people kind of taking companies at their word now one of the problems with the technology that you're talking about companies and their word for a really long time is that we and I've had I've had people lied effort. Pr People at the largest tech companies in the world. Just lied to my face. You know and I don't think anybody at input and hopefully you know at some of the other great tax obligations that exist. I think a lot of people are not taking that at face value at this point. You know they're not GonNa just say repeat the PR. But I think we're trying to figure out where the where the right place is to be critical isn't where the right place to be to. Praise is because those do still exist and they may not be the same pocket that we've been looking at for so long so when we talk about differentiation. I think one of the things that we talked about. When you're on the PODCASTS? Like three years ago was part of the Sameness. How everything looks on the web and how it behaves and you were clearly trying you were doing something very different with the outline as far as the design and the technology platform now? That's been ported over far as I can tell from the outside to these these new sites Yeah I would say is probably not trying to correct your grammar here it is probably less. It's more like we took the best of a of of what BG of doing the hip hop platform called typeset which is now are kind of like like parent platform for everything What we were doing it the outline with cms that we had bill which was a completely custom cms for doing content it was just very visually different and built different than than most things on the Internet and parts of the inverse? CMS which were also really robust. There's some really interesting stuff there So you still a believer in this because I mean I guess what I was trying to get at was that I think we went through this period where everyone was just doing wordpress sites because what does it matter because it's just being sucked up by platform forms. The scale ability of a very basic site was trumped. Any sort of differentiation. Bump that so you would get right. Well we seen the limitations to throwing everything into someone else's platform inviting crossing our fingers and hoping that they'll do the best things for us. And by the way Ah I feel strongly about this amp is still while it is a great can. Be Great in some situations is still a A perform in a format that that reduces. What is possible Apple News while I it is a tremendous platform for to get new eyeballs on your content and it is a place that reduces streamlines diminishes what publishers create and what the Writers and editors hope to put into the world? It's it's lowest common denominator and yes and this is ongoing. You know when people talk about the duopoly of facebook and Google. They need to address. The duopoly has it's has its basis not just in their size but in their ability to manipulate the technology that we use to tell our stories and when you can manipulate it and force publishers into something you it becomes very easy for you to tell them what to do and how to do it the way we play the SEO game in the industry. is a direct result of Google. Making decisions ends about content They've made decisions about how they wanna see the content how they want us to structure the content. What can be successful or unsuccessful? There's a price that it's exacted and we have to the push back against it. In the one of the ways we push back is by owning our platforms and owning the way we tell stories as much as humanly possible. Even if it means that we're still GONNA use and we're still gonNA use Apple News and recognize that they will bring traffic and audience and we have to think about them but we we need to have somewhere that home base where we can express the right story in in the right way but I also say that we should be much more universally critical across the media. Landscape of this I've seen interviews with editors that I that I respect people that I love talking about how much their traffic comes from amp. You shouldn't celebrate it. You should be scared When I see when I walk into any newsroom and they show Xiaomi traffic and they say we've got sixty percent of our traffic coming from Apple News or whatever which you see in newsrooms all the time and I would imagine? I don't know the digit numbers are but I bet a lot of people people in the industry are like. Wow look at all the traffic apple news ascending. He can make money off so with that but people talk about audience is and they talk about engagement and all but the reality is like be scared. If you're getting a huge amount of traffic from some source that you don't control and don't have any say in while there's a history at this point right there's a history but this is why but this is why when you talk about the clash and all that stuff this is why where you get into that the regulation conversation and you get into like where the real stakes here and. How do we fix some of the things that we broke? I'm I'm I tend to be sorry if I'm rambling. I can stop but I'll just make this one last point. I tend to be optimistic back as much as it seems insane in our current predicament in media and like the world. I tend to be optimistic. The we can fix what is broken or at least make it better in in in small ways and that will inform what are some smallest. Why think one one I think we can all just strive to to push back on the stuff like collectively? Not just you know people talk about everybody's really fired up about Bernie and the idea of the collective and ah sort of socialist sort of concept I think we can all in the P. publisher should be collectively pushing back on the tech companies. Not just writing articles about them but really really having conversations I think now is the time right right because there's regulators circling and governments and stuff like this. Where whether it's for PR PR or genuineness? I mean there's some leverage that to be exacted on the platform regulations real. I mean that's a real thing that can happen happen to Microsoft. It can happen to other publishers but but You know pushing back collective. Liza is a big deal but also I think trying to push the envelope and see what what the audience it's wants me. That's getting back to your platform questions about the if I still believed in the idea of building a different platform and differentiated and trying to tell stories at different way I do believe in it because I think that one. There's an audience that wants it and appreciates it and really like picks it up and it's Catnip to them that they see something that feels like of this moment in that's a lar- growing audience every day There's a reason why Google created APP stories about a year after that you know six months after year after the outline launched they announced announced this amp stories thing. I'm not saying they ripped us off although certainly there developers were aware of what we were doing. But there's a reason why they would if there was a web version of instagram stories. That could exist this that publishers be able to use The that's real and instead of US waiting for tech companies to make the next move we should be cribbing what we can from them learning from it building something new hopefully building something better and trying to own that as much as possible so I think it's really important. I think it works. You know so you guys have started start. New Brands have acquired new brands. What is the plan going forward more acquisition or is it more towards organic growth? Just focus on the existing portfolio. I mean we have a lot of brands in the portfolio right. Now we've added. I mean in the last you know year BG's added a lot and the sea. And I didn't exist a a year ago right And now it does I mean Bryant you know. Look I can't speak from Ryan and Brian is obviously. He has his eye on. If there's something that's out there that makes sense and he's been challenged to come on here taste. Yeah no I mean he should come and time we talked and this stuff comes up and there are conversations about it but I think right now. The focus is on building the brand building. The technology scaling-up brands brands. That are smaller. Input just launched a month and a half ago scaling that you know Inverse is is tens of millions of people to inverse every month. That can be alarmed. But I think a much larger audience as we just relaunched Sort of new design with the new tools that we built for in verse. That's GonNa go spread across the company as well right so the technology that we build is going into hit every brand in the portfolio. And that's going to have Implications both in terms of editorial and on the on the on the advertising side. And so I think right now. It's like a focus on we've pretty big collectively. BG's pretty huge. Especially now with the new brands I mean and and It's interesting if you look at the set the scale and you look at like you know you can go and look at the investment levels of what companies have taken if you look at the boxes you know or the the buzzfeed's of the world whoever you know the level of investment to get to that scale was enormous you know. I think that one of the things. I've been impressed by you know. Sometimes Brian I kind of you know argue over is the. He's the way he runs. The business is like it's very smart. It's very but it's also very like self critical you know and it's constantly. It's like looking at like month to month to month. Are we doing the right things to make this a business that can be profitable and be sustainable. That's another thing by the way that we connected on this idea that you're not it's not endless investment from VC's or the support this business we have to make it profitable sustainable. And that's you know so. I think there's a big push right now. Just obviously industry-wide you heard me suddenly talking about got it You know when are we going to see the new Gawker. Gawker is on the shelf for now gawkers pause and I think it's going to remain through peanut a super bowls can't go no not like Mr Peanut Super Bowl campaign No it's you know when the time is right if the time is right. If there's the right team in the ideas is there you know there will be a conversation about that. But I think everybody right now is focused. On these brands that we have that are vibrant and vital and thriving and growing. I mean and you know we've had even with the outline you know there's there's a world where the outline doesn't exist there's a world where it just goes out of business right because WHO's going to support Something so really truly a strange and different as the outlet. I mean I I. I think it'd be hard pressed to look across the landscape now and say. Oh there's a lot of sites like the outline the to do with the online does the outline is growing and thriving right now and is being supported by the company in a way that you know Brian of course in our I said Yeah. I love the outlet. I want to support right. And you're kind of like okay. Well let's see you know here here we are you know I mean we joined the company went in. I think there's Marcher April and it's feels like they have more investment as far as the number of people devoted to creating content because I mean the the best argument for Lake AAC Bustle Digital Group. Is that look. There's a lot of inefficiencies for subscale media companies as far as platform Thomas far as overhead. As far as you know counting your sales. There's a lot to be said about being larger legal fees like when you're a small startup legal fees are real. Oh you're like wow can we afford this to fight this copyright claim or whatever you know YEAH THERE'S A ton of efficiencies they're like how many people you have working across these brands across the group. Yeah Fifty F- fourth. Is You know something like fifty six. I don't know the exact you can be a lot more efficient thousands in dozens of people and we're hiring towards content. Yeah right yeah and well we have an I mean one of the things. That's interesting is you know we have our CTO Eve of our Who joined obviously joined the engineering team and now we have a great centralized engineering team but it's also were we run the business enough like a startup that like? I'm you know I'm interfacing with Tyler. Love who's the CTO were having conversations about like what should we build hatch rebuild it. How do we make better stuff editorial? How do we make better stuff or advertisers? So it's still let's start up mentality that feeling of like you can affect change here much more so than any company. I think that I've seen it kind of scale that the entire organizations that but yeah I mean there's there's huge efficiencies there and you can focus on on doing things that are going to move the needle and I would say just on the product side one of the things that I think. Everybody's nobody's excited about with the outline was the product built and you know when companies come together. You always here. There's always this thing where it's like. Oh we love the technology they bill like like like when you know CNN acquired beamed Stats social APP. We'd love the technology. We love the ideas you know. And it's like they couldn't make it work work. We're making it actually work like I didn't. I didn't think we'd have built what we built as rapidly as we build it. You know I mean. We've launched new brand. We built this kind of new hybrid hybrid platform we relaunch inverse. I mean it. It's all moving pretty rapidly but it's happening. Which is very exciting to me? So on differentiated media brands. Give me give me a couple of your favorites right now. That you think are doing a good job within the family brands across the across the space. Yeah I really putting me on the spot There were some weird things like. It's nice that you know that. So they kind of design nine An art site I think is fun. I think it's consistently interesting. I find stuff on there all the time that I love You know the intercept I think continues used to do really important coverage I think the information has been doing just in terms of pure scoops. Yup I think they've been doing really really well And they've they're breaking stories that matter and getting pushback from the right people which you always like to see And you know axios is a brand that I I. I like a lot. I don't know that I love their content all the time like it's not. It's not really fruity like well. I like I think that they were trying something. I like the ambition Shen of saying like a- and actually like I will openly admit like their ideas that we're kind of borrowing from axios about how we're doing things with input where we're like. I like how they're kind of trying trying to keep these stories to kind of the core stuff and not asking me to go. They're not doing a thousand word story about an eight hundred wording time. They had a good point about that. Yeah and and it remains a good point and then off after like four years it being told he does it. I think they should be extreme. I think it's a little bit too extreme and a little bit too single. Oh minded in its approach but one of the things I was like this is so interesting. But what if you kind of blew this up a little bit what if it was also became visual. What if it didn't have to be one-size-fits-all and so we started thinking about the the I like like that's what we should be doing in this industry not just from competitors I consider an act axios a competitor exactly but not just from people that we liked but also from the tech companies like? What are the good ideas? And how can we Borrow those Alter them you know. Mutate them exploit them in a way that is going to be good for the audience and good for what we WANNA do Few there are definitely more. If I sat here for long enough I could come up with a list of ten other sites next time Josh. Yeah maybe knowing you Brian on I'll stop I and my list all right. Thanks so much for combat. Thank you thank you for listening. If you like this episode of happy do please do leave essay review. We always like to get those. If it's a nice review we'll even read it here and also Race because that helps people find this podcast. Apparently we you look back next week with new absorb before I go. I WanNa tell you about this year's digital content marketing awards. It's which honor the best in. Yes condom marketing over the years. These awards have honoured leading work from brands agencies publishers and technology providers like Verizon Isan refinery twenty nine Volvo and many more this year we've introduced for new categories including best influenced or generated content most original use of social media and the best use of data. You can check out the full list at digital dot com slash awards. We are now accepting entries so be sure to submit before the final deadline which is February twenty first.

Brian Mike Mike twitter Josh Topolski Brian Goldberg. instagram Google BG writer Shen Brian Marcy Camin Bustle Digital Group editor facebook
In an era of insanity, is anything shocking anymore?; New threats against normalcy; Clarence Thomas calls for review of landmark libel case; Politics and pop culture collide in Smollett story; Legendary Barry Diller on the "revolution" in Hollywood; Barry

Reliable Sources with Brian Stelter

44:59 min | 1 year ago

In an era of insanity, is anything shocking anymore?; New threats against normalcy; Clarence Thomas calls for review of landmark libel case; Politics and pop culture collide in Smollett story; Legendary Barry Diller on the "revolution" in Hollywood; Barry

"This podcast is brought to you by book dotcom in partnership with the cantata row tourism board, book dot com. The number one site for all inclusive beach vacations. It's time for reliable. Sources our weekly look at the story behind the story. How to milk Meteo really works. How the debts made now all of us can help make it a bit better. I'm John Avalon throwing in for buying Stelter. This hour just a small at White's. The perfect storm, politics and pop culture hate crimes and hoaxes Tulsa, one on one with Barry Diller, the media mogul talks Hollywood's identity crisis Facebook regulation this concerns about them in twenty twenty and a new hire here at C N N's Bruce controversy and confusion try to clear it up but first minero where insane is the new normal. There's always a danger that nothing's shock perspective is the thing we have least oven our politics. And that's why it's helpful to take a step back sometimes and do a data driven reality. Check a fascinating New York Times analysis this week showed that President Trump has attacked the rush investigation. More than eleven hundred times he uses signature moves of distraction deflection division. The larger goal of courses to discredit the investigation. Through repetition that resonates with his base but face with a blizzard of lies in fact, free attacks normalization starts to creep in and we could become numb to it as citizens and journalists so when the president calls for someone to look into Saturday Night Live because he doesn't like their satire gets cursory coverage now over the past week angry predawn tweets from the president called journalists. The enemy of the people received something close to a collective shrug. What would be an extraordinary attack on the free press by almost any other president becomes just another day at the office. But every once in a while, we get a visceral reminder of the real cost of this talk this week it came in the form of a chilling indictment against a former marine who works for coast guard headquarters in Washington. His name is Lieutenant Christopher Paul Hayes. He's about white nationalist who is actively plotting domestic terror attacks targeting the president's political opponents and cable news journalists, including CNN's done lemon. Chris Cuomo and van Jones as. As well. As Joe Scarborough, Chris Hayes and Ari Melber. This comes four months after pipebombs were sent to prominent Democrats and journalists that CNN four months before that the deadliest newsroom shooting in American history at the capital gazette in Annapolis point is not there's culpability on the part of the president. But there is a growing pattern of threats against the press. And that's nothing we can afford to ignore in a free society. Joining me now to talk about how to confront the numbing of the American mind defend the free press. It's an all star panel your times columnist Charles blow CNN's SPF newsgathering metric leader in the former president of the slate group and founder of Pushkin media and yell professor of journalism. Jacob weisberg. Thank you all for joining me me. Let's start with you there choices we make in journalism every day. And one of the most difficult is how to cover the president's lies miss truths versus some of the other things happening in the world that are larger and big. Tiger in some respects than holding them to account. Venezuela comes to mind, how do you make those judgments in the newsroom every day between holding the president to count and telling people what's happening larger in the world. So thankfully on digital. This is not an either or proposition. It's very much. Both of those tracks are vital to our mission as journalists most of us got into this for both of the objectives. You mentioned one to inform society to be the underpinning of their information. And then what you're describing which is to hold power to account. And so when the president, you know, repeatedly says we're the enemy of the people the question, then becomes how do we respond to that? One response would be adversary Lee. The other would be to say this is what we do. We're here to serve the public and to remind them of that not necessarily by only responding to the president's attacks, but you know, showing our importance during criminal investigations during hurricanes during during the stuff that makes our news agenda, right? Chewing gum and having a big enough newsroom to be able to do both Charles let let me go to you. Because one of our former colleagues and friends David from the smartest guys. I know how to tweet over the weekend noting that in his local paper, the coastguard shooter in the indictment was in the local section, and he took that as a sign of kind of normalization numbing that we're confronting is this a case of us growing dangerously number or is this a case of the difficulty covering the gun that didn't go off. I mean, I guess we are numb to to some degree. But I think that you know, to put it in a larger context of what's happening is important people. Consider the media that fourth the right basically, a fourth branch of government. What you have now is if you if you take that context, and that framing one branch of the government, attacking the other. And that is, you know, it's a very difficult thing to defend against and and the media, unlike the other three branches there, there's no election. The there is no confirmation hearing, the it is the the media is enormous relative to the other branches. And as the the I the definition of what the media is keeps expanding, you know, there there become a lot of voter abilities built in terms of credibility. But also physical personal vulnerabilities. There are no guards at my house. Like there are at the White House in cars at my house like they are the supreme court or in congress. And so they're they're they're actual vulnerabilities to you as a journalist. But they're also the the credibility concepts around are we now lumping in everyone who blogs and pseudo seriously. And I think that there's a lot of great journalists. I'm happy that way. But also there some journalists, and that would be more skeptical about happening that way. And so they lack city of the concept becomes a tricky thing. Jacob, you know, one of the real conversations is is the president simply talking as he does spouting off, and we shouldn't over index the impact, but every once in a while you start to see him change, the terms of the conversation, and that seems striking this week when we saw an opinion from judge Clarence comment. Supreme court Justice picking up the mantle of the president's past claims that we should have live a law reformed target the press by saying that Sullivan v New York landmark libel case should be reexamined. What's your take on? Well, I don't I don't think it's plausible Sullivan with a nine zero decision. And I think conservatives have long realized that freedom of the press protect conservative views as well as liberal youth in that case along with the Pentagon papers case, which is the time. The United States are the foundations of the modern interpretation of the first amendment. They are the pillars of what make the American press the freest in the world that used to be an idea that the United States government had an interest in developing abroad, and in places like the Philippines where democracy was emerging. We were on the side of the free breath. Now, we have a president who's giving a kind of permission ING to dictator. There's who wanna pull it back in the other direction who were harassing the press like Maria race this press freedom here on the Philippines, and you territory in the Philippines is an example of someone who does that specifically citing fake news enemy of the people. So the concern is that what Trump does creates the kind of permission ING and creates a climate where these attacks violent attacks. Here are maybe not specifically attributable to Trump. But our take place in an atmosphere that he's created sets a broader tone betray. I wonder if he'd put Sullivan vineyard times in context because it happens during the civil rights movements, where libel laws being wielded for really specific chilling purposes. So I think what's important to know about New York Times versus Sullivan is actually that the lawsuit was against an advertisement. Right. When we New York Times, he'll just assume it was about the journalism. But that's this was actually an advertisement by a group of people trying to defend Martin Luther King and raise money for him. And I think what is. Born out of this civil rights. Are a decision is holding public figures such as the police politicians, we see that redefined for celebrities and becoming more expensive in the modern definition of media, New York Times versus Sullivan really is. Speaking of how we cover and hold power to account the underpinning of that belief in in in journalism jig just quickly as someone who's running independent media outfit. I don't think folks appreciate how it's the threat of lawsuits can have a chilling of speech. We'll sure and financially weaker news organizations, which almost all of them are now are in a weaker position to stand up to wealthy bullies who may want to punish them because of something. They don't like what times v Sullivan protects is honest error error is part of journalism mistakes happen, and what that case says is that mistakes that aren't intentional mistakes versus laws are protected by the first. Amendment in most cases, we're gonna we're gonna have to leave it there. But Charles stick around for the next segment. Maitre jacob. Thank you for joining us on reliable Johnson's up next. Jesse spill at a story received wall-to-wall coverage by both please appointing figures at the news media. But before we go to break, it's Oscar Sunday. So puppy, fun to have some fellow in anchors asked with a favorite journalism movie is and here's John Bernard. My favorite journalism movies, easy, all the president's men because that's why we all got in this business and side note. It's the coolest thing ever that I get to actually speak to Carl Bernstein, sometimes number two up close and personal only because it's top-flight Michelle Pfeiffer filmmaking. And there are no actual real parallels television news inside that movie, which segues to number three, which is broadcast news, which isn't fiction. It's like a documentary. It is actual footage of what it is like in the television news business, and let me just tell you that my entire career in everyone's career in this business is a struggle between being Albert Brooks. In William hurt in the dirty truth is the William hurt always wins. Hiring is challenging, but there's one place you can go or hiring is simple fast. And smart that place is ZipRecruiter with their powerful matching technology. Ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job ZipRecruiter is so affective that eighty percent of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address ZipRecruiter dot com slash prob-. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash PR. OB? Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Welcome back to reliable sources as the strange saga. The jussie smollet case continues to one of the biggest criticisms we hear is against the media. And we heard it from the Chicago police department superintendent loud and clear. This didn't get any special attention. You all gave this more attention specifically than we do. This has been a heated national conversation. So let's lay out some facts. I there were seven thousand one hundred seventy five hate crime incidents in twenty seventeen. According to the department of Justice. That's a seventeen percent increase over the previous year. Not only that the number hate groups in the US is increased thirty percent over the past four years. According to the SPIC hate crime hoaxes do occur, but they are very rare. If possibly on the rise, according to the director of the center of studied hate and extremism at California State University in San Bernardino, there've been at least forty nine fake hate crimes reports between twenty sixteen in two thousand eighteen but often these cases are high profile and this can go back to to wanna brawl in New York City in the eighties. UVA rape case falsely reported in Rolling Stone. In more recent years incidents at the air force academy Saint Olaf college the New York City subway system, I think it's important to put both things in perspective. Because too often conservative media focuses on the few hoaxes while liberal sometimes rush to judgment. On the other side joining me now Charles blow back near times columnist l z Granderson ESPN host, and sports and culture columnist for the L A times and John mcquarters says she professor of linguistics at Columbia University and contributing editor for the Atlantic. It's great to have you all here. L Z. Let me begin with you part of the criticism. We heard from the Chicago superintendent is that there was so much attention given to this one case and not nearly enough at the shootings in Chicago were other hate crimes that have borne out around the country. But you as someone who writes at the intersection of politics and pop culture often outta recognized two things one. Shouldn't there be an assumption that the cases are legitimate, and to wasn't this always going to be something that captured people's attention out of the gate because of those albums well, first of all it was great to be back with John? It's been awhile since I've saying, you, I I, you know, I kind of Chuck with a little bit having been in Chicago reported in Chicago at the idea that this case particular. Saudi Chicago name as released his gun violence into stadium, which is violence in general, Chicago's known to have issues when it comes to violence. So for the for the chief to insinuate this case kind of drag Chicago's named through mud I felt was disingenuous. And then also just the number of man hours in detective hours that were used for this one case in particular. I don't have the facts in front of me. But I do know having lived and reported at they said before twenty detectives over the course of three weeks for one case doesn't seem to be the norm based upon my own reporting in the city. So I thought he was disingenuous in terms of how Chicago's position now. Back to your question. Yeah, he was given extra attention because he's a celebrity on a very popular TV show and pretend otherwise would be James of the media. I might biggest criticism John is that we dropped the word alleged very early in our reporting of this. And then when you have political commentators like myself, you didn't correct us when we didn't use the word alleged as well. Interesting. That's a fascinating and important point Jumba quarter. I want to go to you because you wrote an essay which was getting a lot of attention in the Atlantic about the underlying aspect of what you call victimhood chic trying to understand in some respects, the sociology, and maybe psychology of hating fronts hoaxes because it's sort of baffling and troubling, obviously. Yeah. I mean, the question is given the reality of these racist attacks and homophobic attacks. Why would a person pretend that it had happened to them? And why isn't that something that you hear about in nineteen forty six in nineteen sixty six why is it that? Now, we have a Rachel dollars all who's white and pretends to be black and part of her act is to fake these violent and or hostile racist acts against her imagine that person even in nineteen eighty six or somebody like Jesse smell at who is a big star on a big TV show and yet feel sincerely as the same. In person he's saying that's what's interesting about this. He doesn't have any mental problems that it would make him more interesting and important to have been attacked that something that's relatively new. And I think that what we're seeing is that there is something that you could call victimhood seek where the idea is that what makes you most interesting is that you have been the victim of some sort of bigotry, and it's certainly true that these cases don't happen at the rate of thousands a year say if there had been forty eight cases like this from two thousand sixteen to two thousand eighteen a certain crowd of usual suspects would be saying that it was a national crisis in what America is all about. If it was say cop killings in there were that many, you know, white men killing killing black men. Everybody would say that the forty eight was more than so here. I think we are talking about a real phenomenon. And it worries me because it's about the black self image, especially among black people who came of age roughly in the twenty first century. It worries me that anybody would think that saying that. I've been jumped by somebody white makes them more interesting than anything else that could possibly do especially because it's a kind of capitulation to evil, and and part of what's there is a sense that we've been honoring appropriately the victims of hate. And so there's a heraldic patina that maybe they're reaching for Charles when we first talked about this, and I became clear that this story, maybe wasn't so solid. You said if this is true, he must be a psychopath. Do you still think that's the case? Or do you think there's something to what John's describing as victim cheek? Well, I mean, that's not my I'm not going to discuss that theory. But. Yes. If he has made all this up. I mean, I don't know. I don't know how to describe. What that would mean? Because it's not just that. He would have made it up. It was you know, the, Robin Roberts interviews fascinating. When viewed in light of what the police allege? He did it was, you know. Saying not only that this happened to me that you guys are all wrong who are doubting, but I done that. I am a vigilante of sorts if you said that on stages. Well, I'm the gay to pock. You know, I know that once you're in. You're all in you know, you OJ showed up at Nicole's funeral and held the kids and cried. I mean there once you're in you all them, but that is psychopath behavior and for him to continuously go out and say, no, no, no, there's no way. If in fact, he did with the police said he did that that there's a huge break with reality there. And and there's also a kind of commitment to the lie and to the persona to that would be disturbing. If this is true. L Z. I mean, do you think that this is something that just simply reinforces the fact that we all need to be skeptical and suspend our judgment, or is this on a deeper level almost a tragedy because it undercuts the real cases in such a fundamental way. When I think if you're speaking of objective journalism than we always greet, these sort of cases, regardless of the players involved as alleged until they've gone through the proper channels at a proper legal system. I mean to me that is the great lesson to be learned here from a media perspective is that we assume that no one would do something like this, especially celebrity because it didn't make much sense. We aren't supposed to run that through that particular filter. We're supposed to run it through the checks and balances of proper journalism, which is an attack is alleged until till the jury or a judge says, otherwise so. That's that's an important point. That's been missing from some of our debates at least as they play out in social media, the social media mobs in John I want to end with you. Because that's exactly what I think some of the has been about where have been the checks and balances the presumption of innocence, the degree of skepticism. Instead, there's a rushing to the ramparts has social media made it worse. And have you seen a kind of deep blow back on this piece? We're or something surprising. Social media does make this worse because we end up talking to each other all day long about these things and visceral terms telegraphic terms as if we were in a village one hundred thousand years ago, so all this happens faster, and it encourages the Shouters. But actually, I really do think that in a case like this what we're seeing is not that America, at least sensible America is thinking that there's no such thing as a hate crime or race crime. I think Ann Coulter has said that I genuinely don't know what reality she is in to tweet something like that we can chew gum and walk at the same time. There are these. Eight crohn's. But then when somebody claims that you know, as a kind of a B and a half list star. They get jumped in a heavy coat in the middle of the night by people shouting, exactly the right things and hanging around his neck, which is something black people seem to always say somebody did rather than the white people often. Do we are right to be skeptical and just to wonder, and we might think of Justice Maleta somebody relatively unique. But I worry that that uniqueness is of a kind where he thinks that the coolest way to be black or black and gay is to have been beaten up and live to tell about it. No, that's not what civil rights was supposed to be about. And nat. Of course, the larger problem is that it undercuts. The historical memory of all these cases that have been all too real and still haunt us in a country gentleman. I want to thank you all very much for joining ELS e Charles John came up next berry Diller moves from movies to digital and he's had a role in revolutionizing at all. I sat down with one return. But first, here's keep Baldwin's favourite journalists movies, if we went down to the Oscars. Hey, john. I couldn't pick just one movie about journalism. So here are my top three broadcast. News, a classic, of course, the post because of the amazing performances, and because of quotes like if we don't hold them accountable who will and last but not least mission impossible fall out only because our beloved wolf Blitzer makes a very important cameo. A book dotcom vacation includes a beautiful all inclusive beach resort with all meals, all drinks, including alcohol activities taxes. Tips all included are most popular destination for all inclusive resorts is Mexico's Caribbean coast including Cancun Riviera Maya the people food history. And of course, the beaches make this great reason to go, and here's one more right now. Save up to seventy percent off all inclusive. Mexico vacations on book dotcom. Imagine yourself relaxing all day on the beach shore by the pool with unlimited food and drinks all included sound good. Head over to book dot com slash podcast to save up to seventy percent off your next all inclusive vacation that's book dot com slash podcast. Welcome back. I'm John Avalon in for Brian Stelter? And we are hours away from the Oscars. And earlier I spoke with the legendary media mogul buried Diller has done everything from running a movie studio in Hollywood glory days to starting an online empire known as I see. He's a man who weaponize is his curiosity. And here's here's what he told me. Barry Diller, thanks for joining us on reliable. Sources. Let's talk about Hollywood given that it's Oscar weekend you made some comments to CARA Swisher that old Hollywood is dead. You famously throw a big bash on us ker weekend. What have you been hearing from your friends back in old Hollywood about your predictions of their demise? Well, first of all, yeah. They throw little bricks at me. And I gently toss them back saying it's a bit out of context. And it is out of context. I it's not that these companies are going out of business. It's just their hegemony which has gone on for the last hundred years is over and I think that's probably healthy to recognize. Maybe you don't like it necessarily. But you know, look technology has changed so many things a movie, what is a movie today that is truly blurred. The word movie is going through its first change since probably nineteen twenty eight or nine when sound came into the movies. So is a revolution happening. One of the real fascinating media scandals of our time that has a lot of history behind it. And that's the attempted extortion of Jeff Bezos by American media by the national inquirer. What was? Your reaction. I thought the only really interesting part of it. I mean it. It seemed to be something that anybody should pay attention to was Mr. Basil's reaction to it which was truly courageous. I mean, he could have as many people would do is suppress it. Do anything he could to avoid continuing. You know, one of the things you do with stories is you don't want to put fire on them. Well, he put huge gasoline flames on them because he said, you're not gonna blackmail me and get away with it. Because if I can't withstand it, no one can and to do that as an individual a public person who has God knows other things to occupy his time was a matter of I think honor and courage, and that can be was the story on the flip side with American media. But did you consider this sort of simply a new low in a company that's already been implicated in lots of other scandals and connections with candidate Trump? Can't you can't you can't do low? I mean there is no lower. What's lower National Enquirer is a bad rag. Meaning all it does is exploited people at kind of the lowest kind of concept of whatever it is. That can excite the supermarket. Check lines. I don't be as many comparisons to the Enquirer. I mean there was thank God. It was actually put out of business. It was called Gawker and Gawker did the same sleazy. Kind of tactics and its tactics got them caught into. Absolutely annihilation a good thing. You are the owner of the Daily Beast by former publication, but there's a lot of pressures on digital media companies. Just the last several weeks we've seen significant layoffs at vice and BuzzFeed to very hype brands backed by capital. Yeah. Vice off ten percent of two hundred and fifty people. My question to you is is our doesn't say who cares. Like, I'm not saying who cares in terms of the fact that I don't care about people being laid off I do, but I don't think that digital media. Digital publishing. Which in a sense got, you know, kind of free money for a while. On the theory that it could compete. It's very difficult to compete in publishing today. But the truth of it is the big big powers of journalism are competing very very well New York Times is doing quite well Washington Post is doing well digital publishing for small players is just a very difficult business model. I do think that over the next couple of years or wouldn't keep investing in the Daily Beast that in fact subscriptions are gonna come online to replace the digital advertising portion of it because digital advertising is just not a good game for anybody. And so I'm hopeful that they will improve. But they probably went as they say in front of their skis, one of your favorite, topics. Big tech platforms of Facebook. There was a parliamentary report this past week released its calling digital gangsters and saying the thing that they were willing to override its users privacy settings in order to transfer data to apt, developers should these big tech platforms be subject to regulation to ensure competition. If so what of course, they need appropriate regulation that they're they're up. Look, it's not necessarily willful. It's just the nature of things. Now, I think we over-regulated no laugh period in many respects. But I do think that prudent regulation is gonna come on a gonna come along. And the next several years when you have situations where it is for the it is for the public good. You were a big supporter of Hillary Clinton in two thousand sixteen what lessons do you think the party should take from her loss? And is there anyone you like in twenty twenty at this point. I even though I think it's odds difficult the person I've committed to not that it might commitment means anything in this case is Michael Bloomberg. I think it's going to be probably a more difficult road than for others as for the rest of it as a big group that win of themselves out. I think the Democrats my great worry is is they're putting their foot in it right now. And I worry that they're going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. So this is not an election about economics. The economy is okay. This is an election about morality and decency. So this is not going to get one on arguing that it will get one on arguing the only relevant issue. We haven't in decent president. And that is a moral question. And it is that question that topic that I think everything should and and I hope will revolve around. Very diller. Thank you very much. Join us on reliable, sources appreciate your tongue pleasure. You can see more of minute, Barry Diller, reliable sources dot com, but up next a hiring here CNN made last week is taking a lot of attention. We're gonna take a deeper look at it up the bring coming up at a leptin. Top of the hour is Jake tapper and Jake what's your favorite journalism moving. Citizen Kane frost, Nixon good night and good luck. There are too many great movies about journalism to really pick one favorite. But if I have to narrow it down broadcast news and all the president's men are moving I could watch anytime. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Xeni optical offer, a huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Xeni dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus is any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices. Visit Xeni today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's Z E N N, I dot com slash CNN. Now, we want to turn the spotlight on ourselves and the spirit of transparency this past week. There was some controversy and confusion around the announcement. That CNN would be hiring Sarah is floor is a Harvard law graduate longtime Republican operative and most recently, the spokeswoman at the Trump department of Justice. I let's clear a few things out. There was a mistaken idea circulating that, sir. Floors would be directing political coverage in the two thousand twenty election. That's false. We have a political director already David challen an extensive political team, which he's joining in addition, she won't be working on democratic debates or town halls because we already have an extensive special events team doing so well, let's cut to the chase. A lot of the fallout stems from the fact that she's a veteran of the Trump Justice department so discuss that and more I'm joined by NPR media reporter and host of NPR's on point podcast. David Folkenflik and SE Cup host of CNN's SE Cup, unfiltered, SE happy birthday. But first David let me start with you. There's. A long history of people moving from politics to journalism, for example. Bill moyers went for being LBJ's press secretary to being the publisher of Newsday. Diane Sawyer was the Nixon eight before she became one of the most iconic anchors of her generation, Tim Bresser. Who'd I'd argue was the greatest political anchor of all time was a senior aide to Senator Moynihan and governor Cuomo NBC's Pete Williams served as a spokesman for Dick Cheney and Bush forty one department of defense before becoming one of the best Pentagon reporters on TV and finally George Stephanopoulos who held the war room for Bill Clinton's ninety two campaign, and ran is communications in the White House before becoming the widely respected host of jamais. And this week. I myself started in politics, working speechwriter fruity Giuliani, so against this backdrop shouldn't Sarah be granted the same opportunity to prove herself. I think that you set up the principal nightly nicely. I think that as in your case people can take a turn through the revolving door, a turn and decide to shift their career shift their lives and their livelihood. That makes every sense. The question here is the particular, and it's problematic. Onto grounds. It's hard to know which way to start first. Let's go first to CNN CNN hasn't expressly said why they made this higher in a way that's clear to the public. They haven't really conveyed it to their own staff. I mean, your colleagues here at C N N have raised this question me with other people and said, why is this happening? What justification and why are there such questions? It's affiliations not simply as a partisan figure CBS hired. I believe a public figure as its political director not so long ago. It's a question of the attitude toward the press, the Trump administration her boss at the department of Justice Jeff Sessions, also antipathetic to what the press does in his rhetoric and how he approaches it, or at least how he talked about approaching it it seems to me as though she needs to come forward and CNN needs comfort say, I'm embracing journalism. And this is why so just to boil it down you'd think that key difference is that there's a difference with the Trump administration and how it's treated the press. That's breaks precedent with all previous presidents, and that's why there's a higher standard of scrutiny given that I think CNN needs to own this in a clear way. And more expressway. Kudos for dressing it on a show like this. But nonetheless address it with the public say why this decision is the right decision. Let's continue to do that SE. You obviously are card-carrying conservative critic of the Trump administration been at other other networks. What's your perspective on what David just said? And this higher. Well, a couple of things I I know Sarah for a long time, and I've I've worked with her in all capacities when she was at the house when she was at DOJ when she was running a presidential campaign, and she's a professional. She is very smart lovely to work with she's loyal. She'll be good at this job as she's been good at all of her jobs, frankly. But I think the problem was to David point the confusion. There was internal confusion about what she would be doing. I'm glad that you John addressed that the the the sense I got internally was not so much. This person is coming from the Trump administration. But what will she be doing? Well, she overseeing or editorial decisions and once that was cleared up. I think a lot of the the the confusion and the concern went away. But let's be clear having those concerns as healthy. It's appropr-. Nate. I wish that of all of the transitions between administrations and journalism going in both directions. I wish that was met with the same healthy concern every time for journalists to be concerned about someone coming from an administration into journalism outfit is appropriate and we just have to watch. And and let her do her job and have a chance and see if she can do this. I believe she can and David look, I mean, I deal public service journalism two sides of the same coin, right? I mean, it's about you care about civic debates presumably, but they're obviously is a different tone and tenor with this administration Maclear up some of the things that both of you raised. I mean, the expectation is that she will play a coordinating role across digital TV. So the right hand knows what the left hand's doing. And I think the larger question and the larger opportunity is the role of idiological diversity in newsrooms talk. A lot about diversity as we should. But don't you feel that? Theological diversity is an important asset to a news organization. That's not simply trying to play to the base compound, the problem of polarize media. So this is in some ways a larger version of the problem that I have with the way in which cable, news employees partisan figures as paid commentators for the networks as opposed to saying, we have somebody who is an outside voice for partisan thing. You know, it's like you have on CNN or MSNBC or FOX, you know, team right team left team Trump team anti-trump and their in house, and that's a weird in premature who's the loyalty to I I am in favour of ideological diversity and geographical diversity backgrounds economic all kinds of different ways backgrounds in ways of life that helped to flow together to form a a a larger understanding of the tapestry of America. Right. That's really important on the other hand if what her role is. And we just don't know 'cause has been articulated is simply to say at the table. I'm going to represent the views of those who have been Trump world, including those were hostile to what journalism stands for. That's a problem if she comes out and embraces journalism. It says this is my few. In my life. And you can see a different path for SPIC shaking your head. Yeah. That's not going to be her job. Her job is not going to be to represent or even speak for the administration. But I will say as a conservative CNN's interest in having a diversity of views and also backgrounds is is a really good thing. The fact that she's, you know, Texan who's worked in Republican a Republican administration for Republican members of the House Republican presidential candidate also famously though defended Elena Kagan in the Obama administration to the detriment of her fandom among Republicans. This is all a good thing. Her job is going to be coordinating as you said, John digital TV. She is not there to be Trump's spokesperson. But we are lucky as journalism outfit to have someone from that environment. And we'd be doing ourselves a disservice. If we decided to just ban. People from this administration who might otherwise be qualified on having that perspective as part of our journalism outfit can only help us. You know, a gutter it can't just be that you hire people from politics political diversity their point of view journalists SU who come through combat conservatives and through journalism itself. Would I want to hear from CNN? And from Flora's herself is a commitment to journalism and journalists principles that you aren't hearing from anybody really in major positions in the Trump administration is certainly I think consistent with the mission of CNN. And I I will say there's a benefit to having people understand the politics in practice as as well as just theory. But this is an important clarifying conversation that a lot of debate. And I want to thank you to graduations on the new baby an SE, congratulations on everything. I've thanks for joining us. All right now, here's new day host Alison Cammarata on her favorite journalism. Okay. My favorite journalism movies are in this order number one broadcast news because I love the Holly hunter character. Who of course, we all know is Susan's Rynski who has just become the first female, president of CBS news. So I love her story. And I love that movie. Number two, the one that really is basically a documentary anchorman who among us doesn't know a guy in TV news, just like that. And number three to die for which is the coal Kidman who I think perpetrate some murder, and I feel that it sort of accurately captures the dark humor of newsrooms. You're welcome. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. Venezuela in chaos, sources say at least five people are dead and two hundred and eighty five injured Venezuelans Kirti forces fought protesters near the Colombian border, Saturday credited protect journalists says one reporter is among the injured and it's just the latest dangerous situation. Reporters are facing around the globe. CB J says two hundred and fifty one journalists were in jail because of their work at the end of two thousand eighteen Turkey loudly accuses the Saudis accused the Saudis of murder of Malka Shoji, but they have sixty eight journalists in jail more than anywhere else on earth. China comes next with forty-seven members of the press in prison, then Egypt with twenty-five while Vietnam where President Trump is visiting next week has eleven journalists behind bars, let's shine a light on a few of these cases this past week. A Turkish court upheld the conviction of journalists from the j-o-h-n ratchet newspaper fourteen of its staff are facing jail time over terrorism charges in China award winning photographer Luqueno remains under arrest. He's one of at least. Journalists detained without charge in an area where China's been accused of widespread human rights abuses against the weaker people then in Venezuela freelance photographer his Zeus, Medina inisia- will soon begin his seventh month in a military prison. It's talking about this and more. I'm joined by Jennifer Egan Pulitzer prize winning novelist and the president of pen America, Jennifer, thank you for joining us when you look at that litany of you know, professionals who've been imprisoned it can be daunting to see trends of freedom moving in the wrong direction. But why did you choose to leave your cozy purchase a novelist and get involved in pen America as its president? Well, I think first of all it's a moment when because there is this increase in persecution of journalists. It feels ever more important to do what we can to try to shine a light on those cases and the truth is that it can work. I mean, the point of imprisoning journalists is plain and simple to silence that person say if we create enough. Of a ruckus. It becomes more uncomfortable to leave that journalists in prison than to release him or her and we've had some success with. That's what's. So that's why it's important to have these conversations on CNN to help these individuals and their families friends and colleagues remind them that they're not forgotten. They're not alone. You said there's some signs of success. Hope is something we have in short supply sometimes these days. What exactly do you mean? Put some statistics on that state. Well, there's the journalist named Ahmed John Najji who's also a novelist and actually was imprisoned in Egypt for the contents of a novel that he wrote for two years, and he was released. He was one of our freedom to write honoring his another is Eskin Kandar Negga, who's an Ethiopian journalist and blogger who was actually released last February luge who is the who is a poet and painter and the widow of Liuzhou Bo who was the Nobel peace prize winner in China who actually died recently while still serving his sentence was finally released after eight years of house arrest and allowed to. The country. So it does work. Sometimes there are a number of cases, we're still working very hard on obviously would like more success than we've had so far in the total till the tips. Pretty impressive is understated out of less. Forty two freedom to write award winners. Thirty seven have been released to the Japan that we want to get it to forty two. We all do. It's part of our opportunity in our obligation as a novelist, you've got a really unique perspective, not only on press freedom worldwide, but on efforts to intimidate free speech, and you said to me in an earlier conversation that as a novelist maybe see things a little differently. You see things that happen in current events in the context of an unfolding story. That's a different way than most people think what kind of story. Do you think being written in America today? Well, I guess what I really feel is that we are seeing the end of an old order, you know, to me suppression of the truth just feels like an impossible and outdated approach if you look at something like climate change. It's happening. You can you can deny it all you want. We can all see it around us, and I have so much faith in human, ingenuity and American ingenuity. I just feel like the next phase is going to be an engagement with the truth and responsiveness to it rather than an effort to flatten it out and eliminate complex thought we were capable of it. We can do it. So the battle may be. Be turning the other direction will win the war defiant. Optimism from Jennifer Egan. Thank you for joining us, reliable. Sources. Thank you. That's all for this televised edition of reliable sources see right here next week. Hey, Sekou Smith here from the hang time podcast. Join me, and my main man John Shuman every week as we break down, the latest, NBA, news and storylines with. Yes. From around the league, we should've subscribe to NBA hang time on apple podcasts. Spotify an NBA dot com slash podcast for new episodes every Monday and Thursday this season.

president CNN Charles John Trump America New York Times Barry Diller David Venezuela Trump administration United States Hollywood Chicago Facebook New York City John Avalon Jacob weisberg
Rocket 234: What Did We Say About Rocket Rules

Rocket

1:12:45 hr | 1 year ago

Rocket 234: What Did We Say About Rocket Rules

"Hello and welcome to rocket accelerated conversation this episode is brought to you by hover end text expand her andrew direct mail yup i'm soda rush for senior video producer at polygon dot com and i'm here today with christina warren senior cloud developer advocate i think it's still you're title correct me if i'm wrong andrea democratic candidate for congress you had you had you run chance christina christina okay i mean it's technically clouds and rather than developer we've we've stopped having the delineation between the different types of advocates but it doesn't matter it's recode advocate yeah law music at microsoft somewhere in seattle where you have to decide this yeah you know i have to say senior cloud developer advocate did roll off the tongue nicely once i got my my brain around it senior cloud advocate cloud advocate cloud advocate cloud advocate dad noces me it's hard because every week i do a show i'm like welcome back to another episode of the speech on channel nine i'm your host christina warren senior cloud developer but now i have to switch the senior cloud advocate and yeah you're right it's it's it's which is a little bit differently senior class ticket yeah you know you get used to one thing and then it changes on yeah i cloud boss just club boss that's what you're the you're the boss yeah i like that that one works for me well we have a super exciting show today for you as usual oh we're gonna be talking about the big apple news that happened mmediately are we recorded last week 'em as well as of vices recent expos they on google chick saw an of course if you don't know what are third topic is i don't think you've listened to rocket before before you new listeners out there is taylor swift she's in the news again yeah there's driving there's a good it's a good when it's a it's a rich vein it it it it is i'm i'm not even gonna lie you guys i'm very excited about all topics it's it's a good week well let's get right into it on my before before we start the topic can i just give some background so we record rocket generally on wednesdays in we recorded early last week in this news came out in i was sitting here every day i just dropped the f bomb techs christina instantly this is so huge do we need to like go do it and done them from the show renault like thinking about it yeah really too late know like this is how significant it was used at channel and club apple i at are work slack oh now now while executioners will know the at channel is like the most contentious of things you used and obviously i didn't do it pretty entire slacken since just people who were in club apple but i would like i apologize for that channel however this is actually breaking news yeah also on we didn't record early last week i i'm looking at are facebook messenger we recorded as usual this was a genuine thursday breaking news oh situation this genuine this was a genuine like rocket rule the quintessential rocket rule maybe muller animal lover this is so nuclear war of rock and roll space yeah yeah any for anybody who hasn't caught up on the news that johnny i as a sir johnny i've shown that is is leaving apple yes yes he's leaving so this is of course apples designer of grew the the man who created the look anti is moving on where's he moving onto he's creating his own company a apple will will be a client they say he will still be getting paid millions of dollars a year for apple but i mean who knows how a how much work he's actually going to be doing is going to be different but he's he's doing his own thing mhm it's kind of you you know when you reach a certain panicle in your career when you like invented be i phone the way they i phoned looks just like you know what i could do whatever the hell i want now i'm gonna set up my own company and just kind of let it run itself and go baskin in in the in bermuda irish something i mean yeah it feels like he's kind of been a kind of moving not away from apple they certainly been doing other design projects for quite a while you know he he's experiment with watchmaking making a lay how do you say like yeah like a like a like a camera didn't have a collaboration with down like a few years ago where he had an yeah and he was also said that been very very involved and the design the ballpark which new apple campus which is understandable but yeah but well but that's a different type of design thing right like i mean he's a true i guess you could say like polymath designer insofar as he's not just industrial design but then that is architecture and then he so does some other types of things in a yeah there's this wall street journal article that tim cook later hopefully we get to this yeah yes leader a disputed but but the wall street journal wrote an article a basically a federal all the same things about information and bloomberg side as well which is that he basically been checked out the data day stuff since he was promoted to chief design officer after the apple watch came out in that 'em you know so for a lot of people even though this is obviously a massive deal but the the guy who the last twenty seven years is really defined the look of every apple product is leaving people up you know at the company or or close the company at least according to to those three outlets said that you know he has not been involved in day today stouffer quite some time yeah and they're still even then giving it some time sees gradually transitioning out for the rest of this year and then will be leaving for good in twenty twenty so they're they're making it a very probably for him and also do not accept upset sorry except upset stockholders just like a very natural transition yeah i mean although at this point i kinda i feel like the stock market reacted it was about a one percent drop you know when there were some other things i feel like that is not apple's not one of those companies and makes decisions based on what the stockholders are going to do milton's is probably going with some other things i mean by all accounts every single were port we've seen in the end there's no reason to believe even the reputation that that a a tim cook made to dylan byers at nbc news didn't recuse this is that he hasn't been coming into the office for years like people have he's had his own studio in san francisco and he's only come in a couple of times a week so there's a question i guess in and this seems to be what apple would certainly want the message to be even if they don't say it explicitly which is hey you know his lieutenants and his people he built a great team and have a great team who are still on board at apple and a lot of the day today step is not going to change i think the bigger question is and i think honestly like even if you are looking at the need that reporting if you just look at how visible johnny's been at various apple launches over the years he hasn't been in the videos for a while you know i i've noticed i noticed that he was not in the mac pro video end there have been some other product videos the he hasn't his face hasn't been in his voice hasn't been in an historically you know that is like one of the the goats you kind of you know things in an apple video where you would have johnny i've talking about the design in in in why so magical and this and that and in usually saying album minium at least once and it was kind of a trope and that hasn't been the case i got i wish that were my job i i guess i should be a genius and invent something really amazing if we were all like as as as johnny i but i don't get that kind of got to a point parity i mean there's ported that perfect conan trade come that he's like oh it's magical lou williams no doubt yeah well but but even without that stuff i mean just the fact that he's not in those videos is notable whether that means anything or not something that i'd certainly notice over the last couple of years is like okay that's that's interesting whether it was indicative of not being as the day today or not or maybe it wasn't going another direction but it was kind of interesting thing where they would still so talk about the design but you wouldn't have you're chief design officer a kind of a pine which is just under noting that i don't know if that means anything just noting that but i think the big question has been not so much john gruber made this point on on a daring fireball ball where what bothers him isn't that johnny i is leaving but that it doesn't appear they have anybody to replace johnny eyes at apple i was wondering about that because 'cause even in his you know detachment from it i don't think i've seen anybody like step up to be the the spokesperson or the face of the design team in his places i you're impression is well well i mean i have thoughts about this is so one of the things that really well they even steve jobs people have criticized him for taking credit for the entire team right so when you have especially modern software development right like it's a team of hundreds of people shipping things working on the material for finding the design figuring out the heat tolerances fucking electrical work all of these things early decided by such big teams in like as humans we need to look at one person in feel like they're the leader but steve jobs was criticized for that for years in yet johnny has you know he's very much a figurehead had in that same sense you know has the design of iowa has gotten better since you know scott forestall left in johnny i've is placed in this nebulous like what was it the the head designer of apple like has the overall look of the entire operating system gotten more consistent i think so but i it just it feels like it's more of a a team vision to it so i i don't know if we need to be able to point to one person this is lieutenant for me to feel confident the apples gonna be able to continue making good decisions with the well i think i think what it is though and i kind of do agree with withdrew from this is that you had people like i end and a job to even if they were giving outside even if they were given outsized credit like let's just say that they were there is no mistaking did they had very distinctive points of view an especially when they were working together came up with the extrordinary things you know you know kind of a plane off of one another and then being able to edit and whatnot and i think there is something to be said about having someone who is in charge regardless you know like like somebody who is who has that role of you you were the figurehead you are be kind of the pacemaker for these things were good or bad and johnny i would definitely that at apple i do think did it is i don't wanna say concerning but it definitely you know makes me think that you know it raises questions i guess is what i would say if that sort of person does not exist and if instead you just have kind of a design team running you know i feel like there does need to be one of the reasons why apple has been so strong historically was because it had a very opinionated very gifted designed person 'em running things as well as you know mean a lot of people have criticized tim cook i haven't fallen through i haven't and agreed with this is much as some other type of people have made i think it's not an unfair crew chief tim cook say no he doesn't have the sort of taste and a sort of ideas and the sort of products since steve jobs that and i think that's absolutely true yes but i think you look at okay apple has been this company is you know made its name on on these things what happens when you don't have visible people in the companies that are doing those things sorry smack talk do you think well i mean why why don't you think that they i imagine they'll probably find some young designers to step up and i mean this could be a great opportunity for them to sort of show when you face then like get some energy into those those those keynotes by showing off like will johnny's leaving but here's the amazing people we have on this team yeah if confetti but why do you think that they've not done that already i i mean i personally think the the what is it this is going to go is starting from the keynote next year the commercials we'll have new people from the design team like when it comes to people go on stage to you know really represent apple at the keynote every single year they they almost like try them out and then they graduated like the i phone right like you you prove yourself so i think what you're gonna see this is just a guess on my part is them starting to k put some of the people from the design team they've been there we don't see because we're outside of apple and let them step up is more of a public face of the the designer structure the company i mean i sure hope that's what happens i mean i think that is a great opportunity now is for people with then to be able to take that opportunity in these in step up and hopefully you know that has been cultivated 'em drink during this time 'em but i think that would just realistically even i and i agree day i'm sure there'll be showing people off but i think realistically part of this too is just why people say why haven't but we had that well it's not that common you know the people who have this sort of gifts the johnny i've have is really really rare 'em the i i mentioned this on twitter on sunday a rubber brunner who was a grand design at apple a before shani ivan ashley higher johnny i've he went on a former his own company the industry group and they've done amazing you know industrial design stuff and he's actually you know they were the ones behind beats by dray an i met him at a at a pizza vendors just before for apple but beads andy set like very good naturedly like in no way you know kind of like there is there is no animosity there is no anger anything he was like i hired johnny i've it's gonna be and i assume stone like this is the guy that created the power book this is the guy that you know designed beats to has a lot of really good design worked his name and his amazing industrial designer and his own right but he knows that the thing that you know probably the thing people always mentioned with him in any sort of open or whatever is the he hired johnny but apple an i mean other than somebody like a you know 'em ran that at at at at you know braun 'em there haven't been that many of industrial designers in the twentieth century you've had the type of impact the johnny i pass right period you know it just be these are people who you could just like every generation happened like that's not actually how it works at least so so we've seen you know yeah well i mean but on that point there's been some people i was stress this is just people's opinion a we don't have any evidence for this outside of a like there's no reporting point to but a lot of people have made the observation of the failing a keyboard in the mac an you know this has every single hallmark of the knives decision and it made me a little bit dinner a little bit lighter and they ended up really really really sacrificing performance in a very serious way angling they're they're not saying i subscribe to this were just having a discussion around talking all the points of view out there there's some people out there they've put forward that may be out maybe apples design in the post dives era could get a little bit more pragmatic matter where literally willing to go back a little more thickness yeah i mean i think that would be great i think it's gonna be hard as hell right because i this is leaving in twenty twenty but you have to think you know the the way that these design things work is that were going to be seen stuff in the pipeline for years to come so it could it could be you know for five years before we actually get a really good sense at least in the industrial design of the products themselves of what stuff looks like post died right like it released thanks the don't have his dna all over it i think the other thing to say there is that if these reports at his data day involvement has been less and less over the years is accurate then that kind of makes him a scapegoat an and unfair way i think for things like the keyboard decision when those might have thought happened you know because of other groups you know other decisions made it apple now you could argue that's been led by the you know things that he's cultivated and the things you said are important but all the report seemed to indicate he hasn't been you know like as hands on in quite some time and yet this keyboard happen anyway like me can't have it both ways you can't say he's responsible for the terrible keyboards on the touch bar macbook pros in he hasn't been involved and data day parts of the company since twenty fifteen yeah like he didn't soup into they office one day and say make those keys flats here a butterfly hidden wish for you that's my johnny i've impression very good and feel great that it's great i think i i wanna stick to really good journalistic level of what we know what we don't know here i think it would be accurate say we don't know either way it's speculation you shouldn't believe anything anyone that's what i do think would be accurate to say though is in the post i've era apple is presented with both the opportunity in a crisis right like yeah there's going to be 'em extra extra scrutiny torrance their design decisions moving forward 'em i think what i would like to see is apple moved back to a little bit more pragmatism yeah i'm not saying things i don't get rid of headphone jack those obviously a great decision but you know power management with heat with keith thickness i i would like to see the move that back little in one additional thing you know i like everyone on this podcast huge fan of his work i've read the books on his like johnny i've i've i've coffee table books filled things he's designed and make huge fan but motherboard put out a piece i thought was eminently fair saying you know these the aftermath format of johnny live is going to be a release stark environmental legacy because he really that whole era of apple devices it did really usher in things like air pods they you used until the battery a light goes dad and then after third awakes it can't be really repaired 'em you know and just kind of the disposable gadget because it's glued shutting the batteries sealed inside i i think that's all like in imminently fair criticism now i'm not saying i want apple to go back to be the was the open source pl less phone they were gonna like tired i was you know what i'm talking about it yeah i know i just moved back to that but i do think this is point for apple to to reflect on where they are and where they wanna go moving forward yeah the one thing i'll kind of say that cause and then i know we need to get onto next topic i don't disagree with the motherboard article i although i think that you know people people who were writing it come from a certain point of view where they are in the repair business in that has an impact i mean i'm i'm pro repair or or whatnot i i do think that you know we do need to think about as an industry a lot more about how we recycle and how we reviews and how we were able to dispose of these products but i don't think it's fair to blame this lack of credibility thing is completely on apple because everyone else followed suit and i and i think the their arguments you could make the this this is the direction the designers wendy go anyway 'em but i also it's so so that's i guess that's the one thing i would say i also think that no matter what happens post die like if people wanna use this as as a reasonably like oh you're finally gonna be able to upgrade grade you're you're macbook no that's never happening up yelled upgrade ever again under any staley i mean i'm just saying you know it's not but i but i do think yeah i mean that makes that makes sense enda dieter rams is what i was referring to earlier i think i said that last run last name 'cause i was flustered but not the the famous industrial designer who other than i is probably the most influence on the latter half of the twentieth century in terms of design aim i definitely i mean anyone like you see like brock obama's someone i personally 'em respect and admire very deeply but when the history books are written on his presidency if there's gonna be some some pretty bad stuff there like a radically radically expanding a drone warfare and the legal standards at the united states holds itself to protect civilians that's gonna be a chapter in the book it doesn't mean like no one's all good or all bad their their wins and losses like we look at steve jobs these days very much as a flawed but extremely important and visionary person so i think we could have that discussion about what i've legacy is with design an i mean it doesn't take away the brilliant brilliant work that he did i tell you sit there and look at that the the mac cube there is not a piece of acrylic like plastic out there there's more beautiful than that is in he truly visionary an a you know if we're if i am pointing to some of these critiques it doesn't mean that don't respect this work totally and i would say i think on for cell is probably be like most perfect i mean other then maybe the palm five guys probably like one of the most iconic and gadgets i can i can think of period five on four is like for me is like peak ice on agreement that well let's eulogize johnny as career at apple i tried to make gutless dyers shouting as i got in the middle of it filing you guys this episode of rocket is brought to you by our friends at however if you've been thinking about building on online identity you can get started with one simple step by would remain a with hover you find the domain that shows the world who you are and what you are passionate about an as you know i like to theme of these based on are episodes so today passion kids could guess what it is is johnny johnny johnny i've a okay so let's see the story of i guess the idea that i have for her website is a helping johnny i find work i know he's starting this new company love from but i think maybe he needs something that will show off you know his storied past so i'm gonna i'm gonna look up that this might be a weird considering that i'm looking up somebody who is a known name 'em wow however however however vert okay i could buy johnny eyes dot online on four ninety nine and johnny i've dots door for seven ninety nine it's on sale right now this is unbelievable he should probably do something about this yeah yeah you also get johnny i've dot app i liked the i'm johnny i've dot io it's a bit more expensive but 'em while they're an unbelievable amount of options and i never would have known this johnny i don't feel like that's really clean and nice that's johnny dot org is available for thirteen ninety and this is oh my god somebody call him somebody let him know there's there's johnny i've dot tech for seven ninety nine i mean maybe justin lee exact subset of people that's like i'm gonna look up johnny offered make a website about him in like the regular your l by public is like nobody cares honey i dot cloud i will say johnny i've done inc that's not affordable that's two thousand dollars but they were literally so many options fifty dollars and under and also like just sub twenty dollars so a youth to should not steal johnny identity but you know what this bodes well for finding your own name buying a domain name for your own website for your own self guess what it's super easy i just found those by typing johnny i've into hovers search a they have no upsells end of very clean user interface face it shows you exactly like here's the jarrell here is the price is it on sale it tells you and then you just click well plus button any by that thing ministers have are also offers free who is privacy so the bad guys don't get your information in this case maybe i'm the bad guy 'cause i'm trying to steal it onny i've identity but i'm not stealing your 's and no one else will be there when you were a customer of hover over has over four hundred domain they named extensions to choose from which can help you brand yourself online for example you johnny i've got ceo can distinguish yourself from johnny i've dot site that police in a you could also get all the usual like dot com dot io go but they also have a lot of really fun ones like dot coffee dot ceo or dot photography 'em so they use johnny i photographer const english yourself from johnny i've done designer whatever you wanna showcase the world you can do it with her and if you're new to hover you can get ten percent off any domain extensions furrier first year like going to hover dot com slash rockets make that first step toward building your online identity to day that you're again is h o v e r dot com slash rocket thank you so much however fear support of this show and relay fm this is a really fun a that was a really fun one i don't usually you know editorialize is on my ad reads immediately after doing them just kidding i do every time that was a fun way i like it i like it but yeah seriously don't you know like domain jack johnny i mean i i would anyone lee worried when i typed in his name i was like no there's not gonna be anything in here wow what how wrong i was what a fool fool me a well that's the last time johnny i will make a fool of me moving on let's talk about google's chickasaw yeah so this extra day went up in vice this week a drink saw is a part of google that is basically focused on quote unquote making the internet a better place fixing the internet they've done a lot of initiatives she deserves with places like citizen lab for example a where they launched a website called security planner that was dedicated to teaching human rights human rights activists and other at risk populations how to be safe online on how to protect yourselves in the horrible online community but basically what this extras they is detailing is a company that is kind of obsessed more press than with results and the even with in jake saw they're just you know the you're you're lack you're labs standard garden variety of sexism and racism and just kind of very toxicity yeah toxic toxic behavior heavier that i part and parcel of kind of some of the the the wider examples of bad behavior that we've seen at google such as james morris letter about how women shouldn't be in programming 'em because because they're tiny brains that's my summation so i would advocate for this topic this week i think it's really interesting a lot of different fronts like a project drink saw in case you're not familiar with it it it really has been a factor fantastic press at google in they do a lot of really interesting things like they do vpn's a the the kind of distribute to people in more authoritarian countries he's a said they can look at the news uncensored and get information there a they do work with like entire radicalization a dead one rather controversial thing where they were a basically looking at a how to kind stop isis recruitment in dan jap a kind of showing people videos and testimonials from people that got now devices to kind of give them a different perspective and all this stuff that's out there online so it's certainly little bit of factor for 'em for google to get some very good cross as far as being like look technology doesn't just ruined the twenty sixteen election we could do some good things to weaken internet right 'em like anti harassment at you know a conversation outsiders it's posted block things like that yeah exactly a lot of things on press freedom yeah so i mean search a very noble things a kind of turns out i mean i mean i i'm sure christie you also have a lot of friends at work at google somebody women i don't hear great things i i wish i could i know some women have great things to say but i i i hear a lot of very disturbing story a good friend of mine kelly alice has put out many disturbing stories about her time at google so it kind of didn't surprise me at this a that there were a lot of a burning term behind the scenes 'em before for a coat voice one opinion on this like what did you think about this crash to the interesting i obviously smiliar with the projection jack salt and some of the things they've done but i didn't know anything about their structure or anything like that and it's obviously disheartening i think you're 'em about the problems that are happening i mean it's bad when it happens in any part of an organization it almost seems that i don't wanna see worse but there's there's this sense where it's that much more disappointing when 'em it's it's the part of an organization that's a sensibly dedicated to try and make things better right now 'em and i like it's not okay ever in any situation but it just makes it that much more apt imagine like if you have these social causes behind what you're doing that to make it you know had yet another level to to whatever's happening about was you know kind of interesting 'em lorenzo wrote his piece on monday and then 'em they they put out a an email she immediately was given a copy of of right after maybe a few days is when i went up and he got it on wednesdays 'em you know basically he got a copy of internal mail saying you know disheartened by by but i'm hearing in in were were going try to make things better 'em that right there the fact that he immediately gets access to the email says that that a lot of things with the culture are good because when people leak at least in my experience having been like a journalist it's usually not because they hate the company and it's usually not because they're trying to be hurtful but it's because they feel like they don't have any other recourse do that yeah that that's the only way they can get any change happening and so the fact that you know so it kind of goes against the whole thing of like oh you know i'm i'm taking responsibility i'm disheartened and things are changing for the better it's like clearly that's not true across the border else you wouldn't have you know people who work there now still in communication and wanting to get the word out so i mean i is disappointing to see what's happening but it's also you know is clearly from the other types of things but we've covered not unique to just google or just it to chickasaw unfortunately i mean i i had to i had to thoughts about this on the first was kind of this instinctual feeling of you can't go out there and you're purport to solve the world's problems problems with the internet and digital culture online if you're team structure in their leadership has the same kinds of a bias sees the cost a lot of these problems in the first place right like you've gotta have everyone's voice involved you've gotta have a wider perspective if you're going to address this the the device story it starts out two days after the james dom or a memo google is in crisis in two days afterwards a window leaders google chick saw sends out this picture of him basically in black face after having participated in a basically a tribal ritual 'em which seemed very 'em it seemed a little out of touch given they fire the the company who is trying to give out the moment so on one hand it's like of course if this if this institution is not going to get take take getting wider perspective seriously of course this is going to happen it's going to fall apart and there were some parts of this were just really really disturbing when they had the air to the crown prince and the middle east like they're asking to just be called hussein email chains like that just really really doesn't seem right to me i it didn't seem right so many people there at the same time one of the things i really really really really learned in my time in politics is that there there's no organization that is perfect in you have to be willing to engage in flawed systems if you want to improve them so it's also and i don't work on that team so i'm just surmising my thing here but i personally seen well intentioned team kind of get in the pursuit of purse of perfection in kind of nit pick everything be institution itution is doing to death so does that make sense i kind of have this like you need to have a better leadership culture but at the same time i wonder if you know this is a very lofty goal here to go fix internet's problems slums you wonder if there's a static behind the scenes because of a perfectionist some say it's so hard because in theory even a a company that was toxic if it had if it is looking for these projects that are doing good end using google's money for that probably some good will end up getting done manner i guess what i what i feel about the culture there is that it kind of reminds me of what we see a lot in the game industry where because people are very passionate about games and about making games they they will put up with a locked to just get a foothold in that industry and that could result in be companies creating abusive work situations because the people are so passionate want to do good things or want to make games that they could be taken advantage of and it works setting 'em which is i think just kind of a a widespread problem with us companies that that kind of are fueled by worker passion yup yeah and i mean i think there's there's an interesting kind of i guess complication kind of wrinkle with chick sought to did a lot of other companies and all other departments and companies don't have which is that a lot of ways it does act as a think take as an as kind of a a policy arm you know an end you know 'em jerk cohen who runs a chick saw he works for you is on the rices team for policy planning staff and then he stayed under hillary clinton and you know what's kind of considered one of the the pioneering people you know in the idea of of diplomacy end you know we obviously you know people like beer great examples where we want people who were technologists and people who have those experiences to be part of policy antibi part of change this is an example of of a group trying to kind of do those things and i think adam points out how you know you could again you're gonna have the best intentions but that doesn't that means that everything is going to be fine that you're going to be able to avoid some of the things happen other places and i think you make a good point shoots moon that when you have people who were working they're out of passion that can sometimes 'em maybe be hide or obstructs other things that are happening yeah or people kind of maybe not not pay close attention to what they think is like the greater mission you know we just gotta get through this because the mission is to put up with a lot if you think well indians i'm doing a good thing in all balance out i i do have to say i feel like the way women are treated like if you're if you're technology team doesn't have women on it to me that is a sign that company is doing something wrong but you need the think about like actually that's true in any industry journalism where oh i guess we just don't have any woman made editor you know or or politics i can't tell you how many democratic events i've gone to where there are no women in the room right i mean it's it's really a barometer that there's something fundamentally wrong what their culture there an you know if you have limon dessert in this particular group in droves it's i i just think it's you you gotta get your house in quarter before you decide to go fix entire internet because that kind of that problem is going to end up in the things you're designing designing right like accidentally allusions is gonna come through yeah any other thoughts christina no i mean not really i mean it just a a on i'm always here for the hot sauce on sorry for but he's under who's having to go through anything but that's you know traumatic about experience and i hope that you know i think sometimes the the benefits of these things even though it could be painful for the companies and the employees involved when these things become public is that you know maybe maybe makes you more accountable and hopefully that'll here because i do think even though i don't use any of their projects i do think a lot of work the jigsaw is doing is important and we we want those things continue but we want that to happen in an environment that is obviously not toxic young mhm this episode of rocket is also brought to you by text expand her firm are friends that's my will give you a productivity a boost with text expanders turned the things you type austin into snippets and use them everywhere you type companies use text expand her four teams for customer support reports email end anywhere else that they need consistent and accurate text if you if if like me if you listeners if you ask me if you have similarities with myself you're always looking for ways to be a little more productive unita text expand her it'll handle all year repetitive typing tasks leaving more time for what you do best christina what is i think the most i want i do double fang question this is an amateur of questions like cobra questions i wanna know the most i guess useful snippet you've designed but also the most frivolous oh gosh okay so the most frivolous is 'em i have the various ascii a motor cons mapped shoe various things so i can type in astra's astra shrug and i'll give you meet a short guy and i have other things that'll just automatically answered the various ascii motor cons i was just like out a glance the same thing bogies map to the slack away soccer most she's worked so that i could use the minneapolis having to you know use the the different key command for the apple mucci thing i can just you know use the m a double colon a double colon colon colon 'em like whatever that's how in los angeles and then the most useful a couple of different ones so 'em i i have some things tied into various apple scripts where it will grab things for me in run on certain things but i think it probably an and i think i might i might have mentioned this on another episode to but i'll mention again 'cause it was really useful when i was doing microsoft out the tour this year and i wasn't a bunch of cities i had like a whole sealife so command line script where i would execute a bunch of commands to spin up a vm with a certain imaging with certain you know like configuration points and whatnot and generate ssh key in and do other stuff in i had that map to like 'em five character so i typed in you know a couple of things b m an dot that script with immediately come out and that was incredibly useful because what i'm doing a demo in front of you know hundreds of people i don't wanna hashing memorize that right now i don't wanna miss a step i don't wanna have you know a a a a an error someplace when i'm typing live where it doesn't compute so that was really really useful just being able to have like a a short shorts a command to run what am i scraps is really useful right well if you want to be is useful is christine you can visit text expanders dot com slash podcast to learn more about text expand her that's again text expand spender dot com slash podcast to learn more thank you so much text expand a firm smile fears supportive of this show and relay fm all right you've all been waiting for oh god it's time okay i'll go swift situation on this as i said earlier a rich vein is rich main taylor swift i had left her first record company at the first company she signed with the first label she signed with big machine a to sign a contract at universal and when she did so she left behind basically the the masters the rights to her first six albums 'em end now what has happened is that the man who owned big machine sold at an sold it to a man named scooter braun mhm a lot of people in the rocket industry have strong feelings about in both directions yet a lot of a client's such as justin bieber who love him a dummy i'm said jimmy more demi levato who love him and then the other a lot of other people are basically on on the side of taylor swift and feel that they have been bullied by him that he's been just kind of a a a toxic force in the music industry and now he owns the masters the taylor swift verse six albums so she posted a tumbler post a basically it was very i think what variety said it was very emotional and i agree give us a very kind of sad that this is how it is a man who tried to destroy my career he owns the masters to my music instead of me v artists you made that music 'em in the music industry is now divided yeah well the one the one thing you left out a was that win in taylor left big machine to go to universal one of the reasons she left is it they should have trying to come up with a deal she'd been trying for years have been public figures at she'd been trained by her masters on she is the songwriter and all of her songs so she has the the you know the the songwriting credits but she doesn't have like the masters to the the the actual recordings themselves end and so she she gets like a portion whatever their plate or license or whatever but she doesn't get all of and she wanted to have no control over all of it in there had been you know protracted negotiations between her big machine she wanted to buy things back and the only way the big machine so that she could have her masters was if she signed another contract andrew each album she gave them she would get an album back in that would be the only way she could get her masters back but she wasn't given the opportunity to just spend in this case scooter braun spent three hundred million dollars to buy a big machine and basically the most valuable part of big machine by the vast majority is taylor swift masters yeah she wasn't given the opportunity to just like write a check she said okay if you wanna get these then then you have to sign contracts and do these other things i found that out 'cause i in the variety reports i read that people were saying that that was part of the he said she said well i mean the situation know even even a scott or shut up who released his own like this is the truth he showed chew copies of like what her terms were signing a contract to renew and what his terms were in his church which they say were final offers was said but it was kind of i will and they could kind of drop things at any time but it was a ten year agreement and that 'em it was you know one album to get one back on her lawyer has also said and no one from you know burr shut us camp has disputed this because and be like the way his language has been has been really specific but no one has disputed this it says she was not given the opportunity be to buy things outright with cash in what friday just saying this is undisputed is that wins got rid of who'd been trying to sell this legal for a long time one of the things he had like majority boating share right so he can make the decision of yourselves her doesn't 'cause it's a private company one of the sticking points would be that he wanted to remain involved as ceo of the label know even if it were one of those scenarios where she came in and like try to be like you know like like a fucking horse but and be like here's five hundred million dollars because he owns the majority of the label and has the majority of the voting shares she can't just buy it right where he would be because he would be like well i so wanna be ceo right yeah so so you know i think that that that but but but it is not a contention that she'd want it to get her masters back how what what the the part of contention is is how oh what that really meant an end if she really took the chances she had to do that that's in dispute but the fact is she won at the masters and that she ended that that have been part of the negotiation when she left mhm well so a lotta it's cause a lot of of tweets to happen in the heart of i think the other contextual backstory story for this is that it's a it's roots are really in the kim crash in an konya west versus taylor swift drama f i don't even remember what year twenty sixteen when a team ten years ago wow is already ten year i know and i know a an end if we wanna be honest it really goes back probably justin bieber being just come oh my god so this was of course this was a when konya west released the video studio a where he portrays himself in bed with a bunch of like wax figures of taylor swift i make an adult which really disgusting it will go oh low konya i mean everybody that he portrayed in that like he had hillary had trump he had you know anna wintour yet taylor he had a black china his 'em not black china amber 'em a he had a a like so many people is really gross just like naked bodies the drama of that was than the taylor came out and said i never agreed to this this is nonsense andy kim card dashing released an instagram video showing or playing audi ostensibly have the conversation between taylor and konya where taylor is allegedly being told about the video in say no no no it wasn't about the video is all about the song about get off the line while with information you need i believe that at i notice the song was on the line was i i think taylor should still have stacks why i made that bitch famous ends a and she apparently agreed to it there's there's audio of that she's disputed parts of that i think we all think she probably agree to and then she heard the whole context and it looks like yeah oh no you didn't make me famous chicken and then shows how they're going to deal with it yeah yeah so okay this is the context of which win i forgot the ghost in rockford label dude wrote a a blog like saying my side of the c i went through all of it i read it all in the first thing i was thinking about what exactly that simone like known konya thing and the kim car dashing going hey i got receipts on this and then just playing the tape a firm that reason it seemed kind of credible to me and i don't know i i i like taylor swift by have to say i kind of i i didn't really come away from that feeling of pathetic about her reports a situation from thee connie west songs that you out in this situation from this situation with the music block like she's like oh adding a chest own it now this person bully based on x y and z and then you know he's like showing all the legal stuff there and i'm like well it seems like this is really unfortunate situation they're trying to get as much as they could from her she wrote that note saying you know i'm gonna bet on my future instead i i don't know i just i i i kinda walkaway not liking anyone here i mean i think legally obviously they have they are in the right here yeah i think i honestly they don't have anything wrong with taylor is posed 'cause it's not really it's not it's not doing anything it's just being honest about her feelings of being upset that she doesn't own her work because of a contract she signed when she was fifteen and i think that i mean one of the variety posted i read did raise the question of like what is the endgame here like what is her goal by making this public by qena bringing this problem two lights and i honestly don't think maybe this is life of me i don't think that there is a net game i think the shoes just upset a by not owning her music that's yeah yeah i mean i i think ideally like look i think that she legally and knows that she doesn't have like the stand on right like she's not threatening to sue anybody she's not being like the sale shouldn't go through 'em i think that a you know every entertainment lawyer that's been quoted like the financial times you know had some good articles friday nobody's being like oh taylor has a case get her her her masters here but this has been a big thing you know prints famously you know had a a universal you know the beatles no michael jackson bought their masters and that was you know huge contention and it's been a problem with a lot of artists face where they're not able to own the masters for their work and somebody else you know there's been a control kind of their legacy in profit off those things on taylor at least is in this scenario where because she is a songwriter and all of her songs she has you know a little bit more ownership then then some other scenarios but it's still really unfortunate but i mean i think it's not like she can stop the sale right like it it it happened in this guy has it what she can do though is make a really big think about things make people have other conversations an i mean i think if there is and then game she can she can make she works at try to make you know scooter braun persona non grata in in some of her circles and with with some of her people you know in kind of force people kind of choose sides you wanna do business with hammer do you wanna do business with me yeah i mean which i dunno this is taylor swift i love personally i'm like you know like this is this is the taylor's with the i'm like such a die hard fan of is like potato of a pulling my music from spotify well yeah well you know there's nothing i do better than revenge is literally something that she wrote a you know in the song better than revenge of the album speak now like she she's not wrong right i mean like literally like i love it when she goes no holds barred but i mean legally i mean she she screwed up a lot of people saying well she should have just bought the label and they're not wrong but i'm not convinced that she is necessarily in a position to buy it 'em yeah we lot to ask someone not just like spend a lot of money to buy you're music back but also by a business and then keep it running no that's a whole job well no i mean totally especially since again the value of the business is the masters like if if the masters warrant part of the business sale it wouldn't be worth three hundred million dollars it wouldn't be worth it would probably be worth thirty million dollars right like honestly like the public what it would be worth and so you know you understand why obviously scooter braun wanted it right because this is a highly valuable asset 'em i think the his wife was pretty gross to get on instagram and be like don't bring kids into this one like nobody what he brought their kids into it scooter did post up his instagram stories reposting somebody like one of his friends who like photo shopped her into a a an image with three of them in the fringes spot at taylor swift like oh like i'm sorry dude like in he put that on his instagram story and then his wife is all like don't bring the kids into this he's a good man i'm like nobody brought you're damn kids into this lady lady who cares that you're kids like people are people are are calling you're you're husband out yasha a a yashar like put up an amazing kind of tweets from but he kept up a couple of days a that a the covered all the drama and all the celebrity back and forth 'cause yeah that was pretty sorry odds i have noticed in this is purely total just from reading the articles that i've read it seems like a lot of the people that are citing with taylor on this are prominent women musicians yet a like i've seen justin bieber talk about scooter braun in then demi levato exception to that but like whole see 'em i really eyelash making that up a right yeah a lot of a lot of the women musicians are picking sides taylor and support out or at least supporting her publicly yeah or at least they're supporting idea of you know if they're like hey this was a completely valid business transaction artist should be allowed to own their masters yeah yeah yeah so it is starting an interesting conversation and of course there's like the music industry side of it which is like what if this you know upsets i guess the the status quo curtis the structure that exists yeah that's the better we got a no i mean yeah i mean that's interesting thing right like like one thing that hasn't kind of i mean some of the industry pieces they've mentioned it but you know she signed with with universal she signed with lucian grants who's the ceo of universal for a long time the rumor was that universal was going to buy big machine an i have to thank and this is just me completely coming out of like this is just me guessing i have no knowledge of this a not take this is back as it is not but it would it would mean wouldn't seem on unfeasible overheard i think okay well if universal who have just signed this nine figure deal that if they by the label then i might have the ability to buy my master's from universal when i do other contract negotiations and if yeah right yeah whereas i think bank like it it really did reach me from her post wasn't they sold it was the he sold this guy mhm yeah it's very it's very personal well so before you asked me what i'm doing this week's among can't tell you how much i liked your a you're influence their pictures you took and posted on twitter this weekend you'll a gorgeous thank you we should talk about them but before we talk about them can i tell you this episode of rocket is brought to you by direct mail get an easy to use email marketing app designed exclusively for them back to help you create and send greatlooking email newsletters can i tell you about it yes tell us about it i will tell you the email marketing is still an credibly cost effective way to reach her customers and grow your business ended up for the past fifteen years mac users around the world have trusted the direct mail app to handle all of their email marketing needs designed just for the mac which means it's fast easy to use and works great with other apps and services that you go back 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download and get started listeners of this podcast conceive a ten percent off all of the full feature pricing plans so head over to direct mail mac dot com slash rockets to check it out that is directives male mac dot com slash rockets to get ten percent off when you opt free full feature plan thank you so much direct mail freer support a rocket in relay fm now let's talk about how beautiful beautiful i am you looked really gorgeous most factored in the lighting was amazing thing on that i was wearing my grandmother's closed at my favorite part of this is like there is but there were certain irony of like you know this is like a bs it's like influencer picture you're taking out entirely in the disdain for the entire thing comes through but ironic way so i just i school so good it take you to set them up i'm just curious 'cause like influencers famously like takes them forever like well this is you're process how long did it take you to take them on it not that long we we ran around at the hotel for about forty minutes or so but the one a lot of the ones 'em we like we just took pictures of each other me and my friend tire burden a an then we got random like we we look for victims basically to take pictures of us together in the hotel an a everyone who did was really really good like there's something about wearing a bunch of vintage clothes and asking people take pictures of you like it brought out the photographer in all of them they were like changing angles angles and like suggesting poses for us her getting on their knees like it made everyone and artists and i think that i i have lifted people just by looking so good so i liked playing well may i love it in the hotel like it was great so if you don't follow me on instagram at doom quasar a at jfk they turned the old dwi terminal which is gorgeous nineteen sixties terminal a which was featured in leonardo dicaprio film catch you can in july ridiculous luxury hotel and they restored the entire interior in pitch perfect golden age of travel nineteen sixties ascetics so like really like bright red carpets and chairs it's the highest ceiling the swooping building with strange archways like arched pads everywhere 'em it is so beautiful at the lighting is great because it's just all windows m s it's just so at the hotel and they also heavy rooftop pool in a bar anta we went to all of those places and the best part that we did not go to 'cause we are fools is they have an actual dwi plane behind the hotel that is also what bar and oh my gosh like up the the air the gangplank whatever they call the stairs come out of an airplane a yeah i don't believe dangling that's a pirate ship you're a it's definitely a gang playing i'm getting a call from from airline mr airline and he says it's been gangplank so if you wanna fight with mr airline fine and i will fight with mr what mr airline riano was the fight you okay i'll tell her mr the airline will be waiting 'em he'll he'll meet you tomorrow office story about my parking garage it's gonna be great okay and it's connected to the jet blue terminal you could just go there and get a drink and then walk up a beautiful brand being jetblue i am not being paid for this but it was just a really fun day so we just bought like a a room for the day 'cause my friend was flying out that afternoon so we we got there really early in the morning had breakfast took photos when the pool you'll 'em got her very drunk and then i put her on an airplane and i so i love that i recommend free day stay okay no 'cause i've been thinking about this because it it opened right after i lost his in new york end i i read about it and i was like okay this this this this sort of kitsch stuff that like i look for so next time i go to new york i might actually like plan my jfk layover whatever enough time to hang out at the hotel i am one hundred percent thinking like okay if i come back late maybe i got a room if i'm leaving maybe i'll go to the airplane airplane airport really really early so i can go hang out at the hotel sell 'em yeah it was a lot of fun i'm kicking myself i'm looking at the two flights i'm taking the summer and they're both out of fricken newark a oh why are you finding i had why else would you fly out of newark cheap but once you add in the super fee any kitchen newark it's not take the train we boy you to make better just and i know and i'm trying i'm coming and not little arta but like wow laguardia's really easy to get to when the remodel model is great thank you for tuning in to rocket are show about airplanes ironically at airports i will say when i lived in prospect heights i did like laguardia 'cause the super easy they get you but i'm just saying like i dunno also secondly just saying we really after year year of travel genuinely could start a podcast about airport but this is true my god i've such strong rian at the helm evil that you have done this week well what have i done a so so a q one was my most successful quarter in a political fundraising in my entire career of you to more than double that number more than doubled it an i q three is gonna be even stronger so a lot of rocket listers helped us out without a i really appreciate that i would give a shout out to one of them right now that was talking to just stay today kim stems angel pazar oh angel thank you very much for supporting her campaign i said tomorrow's the fourth of july so when you're a politician you're human machine i am walking not one not two but three parades got a going to to barbecues i don't even want to think about how many hands i'm gonna shake tomorrow a but it's gonna be great especially getting it'd be ninety degrees get staggers even do like parade hey barbecue parade barbecue or is it gonna be like a three parades and then to barbecues a it's gonna be parade parade barbecue parade barbecue so on that's not the cause and you get to refuel in the middle exactly lay yeah and they needed to walk off the meat you get what you eat and sleep and just being lazy tomorrow really so yeah it's gonna be great and all of this right after i moved into the tire house so just full of energy let me tell you oh boy vino what are you up to well i don't have works tomorrow but i'm going to barbecue with some friends so that should be fun 'em and i've been working on stuff that i can't really talk about but things are good just had a lot of kind of work stuff nothing overly exciting citing 'em a for the listeners but fun things nonetheless and speaking of my year travel 'em were now in the planning stages for next year's you're travel a i won't be in as many cities next year but i will still be at a quite a few so but we we've nnounced on the the next a year of a microscopic like the tour and those tour dates are alive now so ember last year we were in seventeen cities this year will be in thirty oh my go and workplaces yeah i will not be in thirty oh man like solid but like it's yeah but it's exciting it's a lot of stuff is pot is legal in seattle addressed it yeah oh yeah or one percent okay yeah liquid that oh yeah no i mean they they're they're everywhere i mean i'm just saying not not not that i know from professional experience or anything right right i just seen him around you know right yeah well okay what am i doing so i wasn't influencer last weekend i had i swear to god something important unexciting just say now remember oh no i remember what it was okay so if you follow polygon youtuber you might have seen are four game series overboard a the most recent one which came out on last sunday has jacob bottle on who is now in spiderman far from home so if craven more of that action and also wanna watch us play a fun game together a go to youtube dot com slash polygon also i think it yes i can't remember we talked about this but i i am going to be at san diego comecon year because polygon tcl are hosting a party together night 'em yeah that's gonna be awesome the guest list is full sorry there is a wait list it's like two thousand people out of it but i will be at comecon a so rocket rules will apply if you run into me a i will buy you a drink i'm feeling i'm feeling good right now feeling wealthy i compile you a drink hopefully it's it's amazing prices are like they're a but yeah those were the exciting things that have happened to me this week have you ever been to san diego comecon before i have never been a san diego period okay you're gonna have a great time but also it's a lot are you just it's one of the parties are you going to try to go to college and try to go i'm going to solve yes good of the party okay that's a good that's a good plan the plan a 'cause it's a lot i don't wanna fight i don't wanna i don't have but you're gonna have a great time you're gonna have a great time enda yeah that that sounds good oh i'm gonna be orlando next week so i don't know if i'm gonna be on the show but a i will be going to disney pre although lucky dogging arguing gutter galaxies edge galaxy isn't a yeah actually i we we should that y'all do my best it'll be on sunday so i don't know if if a but the lions will be like i imagine they'll be freely little bad i've got gotta do some us some 'em works and videos for work so at the very least you should go there in you should do the thing where you get to build her own lightsaber and then you get to decide like are you like you get to decide what kind of lightsaber you making the crystal and the handle and he gets walkout yeah i see what christina warren it's lightsaber looks like that is those information i need all right all right i will i will do it for the pod end all imagine that i'm i'm obviously like you know gonna be on the dark side but i will will will see what it what it looks like i would also be on the dark side i'll just don't that so all right everybody where can we find you online christina so you can find me online at sold underscore girl on the twitter's instagram's an actual using instagram this weekend 'em when i'm at disney so yeah be tune in for that it just see what lightsaber i adult myself i'm brianna what about you a you could find me on twitter at a developer brand new on facebook excellent and of course you can if you go support brianna dot com support brown dot com on young three yeah thanks to the rocket listener said a disappointment really means a lot to me heck yeah you could find me on twitter at jim quasar an instagram to a an youtuber dot com slash polygon is worth and videos lives thank you so much everyone for listening to this episode of the rockets if you liked

producer developer advocate congress developer seattle andrew christina warren microsoft apple google ten year two days three hundred million dollars five hundred million dollars two thousand dollars twenty seven years twenty dollars fifty dollars one percent ten percent
Embracing Emerging Technology for Social Change

Stanford Social Innovation Review

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Embracing Emerging Technology for Social Change

"Hi, I'm Eric ni. Managing editor of Stanford social innovation review which aims to inform and inspire leaders of social change. Learn more at SSI dot org. Emerging technologies like biotech and artificial intelligence have the potential to transform so many of the systems that make up the world around us at our two thousand eighteen frontiers of social innovation conference, Catherine Milligan who directs the Schwab foundation for social entrepreneurship spoke with a few savvy social entrepreneurs who are harnessing these tools for social impact right now. Milligan speaks with Keller Rinaldo CEO co-founder of zip line, which is using drones to live or blood and medicines to remote parts of the world. Kristen groups Richmond revolution foods, which is using technology to increase access to fresh healthy food in underserved communities and David Risher CEO and co founder of world reader, a global nonprofit that provides people in the developing world with free access to digital books via e readers and mobile phones. I am. Without further ado, delighted to be joined on stage by three of the social partners in the schwa- foundation's global community, Chris Richmond's of revolution. Foods Keller Rinaldo of zip line and David Risher of world reader, welcome. I thought I would start this panel with a confession. More in the Luddite camp than I am in the tech savvy guru camp. And so when I started preparing for the session, I was momentarily stricken with imposter syndrome. But then I came across something that you said Keller about bringing up Aguirre's mind to an issue and not being afraid to ask questions. And so I thought I would turn that into an advantage by putting all the less tech savvy among us in the audience at ease. You're in very good company. And you don't my goal here with the conversation that we're going to have this morning is to really strip away all of the impenetrable language and intimidating jargon. Just have a really acceptable informal conversation. So the title of the session is shorthand for the fourth industrial revolution. That's a book by professor Klaus, Schwab, the founder and executive chairman of the World Economic Forum and the co founder with his wife Hilda at the foundation for social entrepreneurship in that book just to get folks really quickly on the same page with that term in what we mean, he argues that quote, we face both the opportunities and the challenges of a range of powerful emerging technologies from artificial intelligence to biotechnologies to advance materials and quantum computing that will drive radical shifts in the way, we live fourth industrial revolution technologies are not merely incremental advances on today's digital technologies, but are truly disruptive up ending our existing ways of sensing calculating organizing acting and delivering over time. They will transform the systems we take for granted today from the way. Produce and transport goods and services to the way, we communicate collaborate and experience the world around us, unquote. So we're going to impact that in about fifty seven minutes easy task. So look my first question to all of you. That sounds so big and overwhelming, it's hard to know, how to wrap your mind around that. So let's start with mindsets. And I'm not going to ask you where these technologies will be in five years, and what are your predictions? I think you know, the reality is that. It's impossible, but still as leaders of organizations making major strategic planning decisions, you know. How are you reading interpreting the trend lines of the four I r and how is that informing your decision making so whoever? Yeah, I can. So the way we think about it is that the future is weird. And especially in a in a in a world where technology is moving faster than it has in the past. Like you mentioned like predicting trend lines. We don't even try. Because what I mean by the future is weird. Is that looking five years ahead things seem so strange like we don't even believe certain things are going to work, and then they end up working like, you know, five years ago ten years ago, most people in global public health thought, the idea of cellphones exploding across Africa was outrageous today, it's like universal and today most people think that the idea of artificial intelligence or robotic starting first in Africa. They think that idea is outrageous, and we'll be showing a little bit is that it's not that outrageous. So I guess for us like it's not so much about predicting. But rather understanding that the future is so weird that we can't really predict it, but it will be very different than where we are today. So if if we just view it as like if our actions are predicting that things will generally be the same five years from now, then we will not be successful because we'll be fundamentally wrong. Whereas if we're willing to suspend disbelief and try new things like radical new things and test them and see if they work and understand that doing that. Inherently means we'll be taking risk than some of the things that we do end up working. And that's kind of the whole point of what we do. Well, I'll add I'll try and then as the founder of revolution foods, and I think I would have originally thought I would have fallen in the same camp as you described Catherine, which is how much are we really going to use technology to change a food system and make healthy fresh affordable clean food available throughout the US, primarily and underserved communities and schools to drive health outcomes and academic outcomes. And I think when Kitson I founded red foods a decade over a decade ago. I don't think that we honestly thought about technology as a huge lever to do that. And now we do every day. And we also I think our humble enough to realize that we don't know exactly how that's gonna look in three years five years ten years. But when it comes to designing, and I'll talk more about this but designing our meal, so that they're not just healthy. But kids, love them and. Lethem? So they have a huge impact and technology related to that. When we think about producing and distributing. It comes into play for us in a pretty big way at this point. So I'll talk more about it. But you know, that's it's it's a part of everything we do know and David hoses affecting your strategic decisions. So we have kind of interesting way of thinking about this. I think which is we look a lot at what changes fast and to your point Keller. It's easy to say easy to predict a lot will continue to change. But we also like to look at what isn't going to change, and what's going to be very durable over the long term. And if you look at the kind of friction between those two I think maybe that's where some of the most interesting insight can happen, for example, fairly sure that reading which is our world is not going to become less important over time. And and no one's going to wake up one morning and say, gosh, I wish you know, fewer kids knew how to read or you know, or we would teach kids. To read later in life because that somehow mix it's like that doesn't make any sense at all. So some things you can predict with certainty reading we'll matter eating will matter, by the way. That's another thing. We can predict what. Hi, sir. Socializing connecting people will matter. Those are things that won't change now technology that will change, but even within technology. It will get cheaper. It will get more. Ubiquitous it more get more powerful. It will get more personalized. So I think to a certain extent if you can if you can sort of contrast what, you know won't change versus some other things that will change, but even in some maybe some predictable ways. That's maybe how you can start to form a framework around experimentation, do the most interesting work. Definitely. Well, so now, let's take opportunity to dive into examples and really give everyone in the audience a clear picture of what you're actually doing. And Chris I'd love to start with you. I'm sure many folks here are familiar with revolution foods in your model. But can you explain a little bit about how you are creating systems change with a whole other constellation of actors in the system. So our really key question. We asked ourselves when we were kicking off which was a little over a decade ago. At Berkeley, actually was you know, how do we create systems change in in food? We realize that the quality of food that our students we started in schools and are still really heavily providing healthy food in schools. But we were asking ourselves how do we dramatically change? The quality of food that students are receiving every day. We have a very small amount of money to to work with. But we believe there was a way to do it. And so we really bought built built the company brick by brick and thought about how do we create meals breakfast lunch snack and supper every single day? So it's amazing over you guys may may not know this. But over fifty percent of every family every child in the US eats at least one meal a day at school at this point and many eat two to three particularly in the communities that revolution foods is serving. So there's a tremendous opportunity for impact. But we knew we had a huge challenge ahead of us. And so we really thought about how to make how to create a supply chain from scratch to create the first all-natural clean label supply chain there just wasn't one available for creating these meals that we were serving into schools, and then we thought about. How do we design foods that kids are going to love? And so now, I'm sitting up here not only as an entrepreneur, but as a mom with two little boys, and this is a topic that relates to everyone out there who struggles with that every day. You know, how do I how do I serve my kids healthy food? But also food that's gonna come home eaten from their lunchbox. And that I know is going to that we know is going to nourish them every day. And this is where I think this conversation gets really interesting because working within a tiny. Tiny financial limit to do. This requires really thinking about how to leverage for us now technology in terms of creating these meals at scale at a price point, that's affordable to have the highest level of impact. So the couple of topics. I wanted to hit one is just engagement respecting consumer base design. So we now serve over two and a half million meals a week across thirty cities in two thousand schools, and we take it very very seriously that we are only designing the meals that our students in communities feel is respectful to them, and again, cultural relevance is a huge part of that. So we're out gathering data every single day from our students and processing data and saying, okay. What are those menu options and meal formats that will deliver not only health but also delight right because we want to build a community. We want to be. Lifelong healthy eaters. So that's one area. That's that's really important to us. The other piece that I would say is a. A place where we are thinking hard about what kind of technology. We can utilize is in creating access to fresh in. What would have traditionally been called food desert? So how do we think about packaging technology and shelf-life technology that enables us to bring fresh meals into communities that haven't had fresh food access every day. And that requires less drops more volume, you really have to cost optimize everything you're doing. So that's a big big part of our work and then finally distribution. So thinking about when you're delivering thirty thirty. Southie sufferers day to fifty YMCA's our boys and girls clubs around a community. That has not traditionally been a an economically viable thing to do. So how can we utilize different technologies again too? To help make that kind of delivery financially viable, so that all students and all youth will have access to these meals in after school settings as well. But those are couple of things I wanted to hit quickly. A thank you so much for that. Million meals a week. I'm sliding through these and I can talk more about. As well. I think is such an important element to the Keller in Davos you. It was quite a lying, you know, sort of if if drones can take lives drones and also be used to save lives. So why don't you share with us a little bit about how you and the entire team zip line are doing that. So zip line is building autonomous delivery networks to deliver medicine and two parts of the world did typically don't have access to medicine today. And we as a team design, the the onyx the aircraft the distribution center. And then we operated as a service, you can couldn't think of us like a twenty first century version of ups, and we work directly with governments and ministries of health to basically provide universal access to health care at a national scale. So what that looks like today in Rwanda, we're contracted by the ministry of health to serve twenty one hospitals today in the country. We're delivering about twenty five percent of the national blood supply of Rwanda using Thomas aircr. Raft today, and we'll be at about fifty percent in late June. So it's expanding really really quickly. And and what we're currently undergoing today in two thousand eighteen is actually we just added. So just to give you a sense for what we're actually looking at here the Z in the middle of the map is the distribution center that we're operating from from that distribution center, we can cover about sixty percent of the country. We just finished construction of a second distribution center that you can see now in the eastern half of the country. And that means that by the end of twenty eighteen and we're also expanding from blood to about one hundred and fifty different medical products. So that means that by the end of twenty eighteen Rwanda will be the first country in the world to provide universal access to health care any medical product delivered in fifteen minutes or less to all million of its citizens. I'm just saying I think it's particularly cool because most people think of Rwanda's being backward or very poor. And in fact, this country is doing what no other country in the world has done using the disruptive technology that Catherine is talking about said he goes want to see how it works. Okay. Says I just shot this on my cell phone. So it's not a very fancy video. But this is a zip one of the atomic aircraft flying by a guy hospital, which is one of the hospitals. We serve any doctor can place in order via WhatsApp that's how they prefer to order blood. And then they get a delivery in fifteen minutes or less, and there's no infrastructure required at the hospital we can deliver into their mailbox, which is the size about two parking spaces. You can see these women are like what the hell did we just see? But the cool thing is that at this point. It's like totally normal and boring to all the doctors, and nurses that we serve they couldn't really care less. They're like, of course, we have drones that deliver our blood. How else would you do it? And sometimes they're like angry when it comes in sixteen minutes instead of fifteen. Just to quickly address why this matters blood, particularly, but all medical products are really challenging in terms of supply chains because it's very expensive. It's often requires refrigeration doesn't last very long one of the products, we deliver platelets only last six days in all these different types of blood, so typically healthcare systems have to balance access against waste. And so if you send a lot of medicine out, then you're gonna have a lot of ways if you keep more medicine centralized, then you have access problems and people die as a result. The really cool thing about building instant delivery with with Rwanda has been that they've been able to increase access by one hundred and seventy five percent to all the blood products that we deliver which is basically unheard of. And they've done that while reducing the blood waste rate at the hospitals. We serve from seven percent which is about. An international average to zero they eliminated all blood waste at the hospitals that we serve there the first country in the world to achieve that milestone. And it also saves them in the high hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars a year. It's a really exciting opportunity where technology means you actually, get to have your cake and eat it to some ways. And then obviously, the other reason this is impactful is that providing on demand medical products, particularly blood saves lives. Zip line just yesterday completed our sixteen hundred life and death emergency delivery, which is a small subset of the overall deliveries. We do but fifty percent of those life saving deliveries are going toward moms with postpartum hemorrhaging and thirty percent or going toward kids under the age of five. So these are just a few of the moms that actually came and visited our distribution center. And you just to just to summarize a couple of things that are important that I think I know I want to talk about a little bit more. At least our perspective on this is that it's so important for this kind of technology to be sustainable and scalable in these markets that were serving. And that's the reason that we operate it as a service, we're not like giving drone administrative help and saying here you go operated. The reality is our customers don't care at all about drones like we could be using magical dragons as far as they're concerned. All they care about is just does something go from point A to point fast enough to save. Someone's life. And if we can solve that problem, then they the ministry of health can focus on doing what they're amazing, which is treating patients the other important part about making all this sustainable, and scalable is that because we actually charge our customer per delivery rather than providing these services for free. We're able to reinvest in new technology so two weeks ago, we launched a new distribution center design, a completely new aircraft. Both of them are here. The distribution centers in Rwanda have now been upgraded yesterday. We actually did the first commercial flight to one of our hospitals who to one of our hospitals in Rwanda using the new aircraft. The most important thing about all of this is that one hundred percent of zip lines team in Rwanda is relondo. And this team of extraordinary kick ass flight operators and flight engineers has achieved what the richest technology companies in the world have tried to do and not done successfully. So for so many people in the world who think that Africa is backward or falling behind or needs to like catch up to where the US is technologically. This is the strongest possible negation of that worldview like narratives are changing, and it's possible for developing countries to actually lead the world in terms of some of these disruptive technologies and leapfrog ahead of where countries like United States are and all bent and the most important thing about zip lines Rwanda team is that we have hundreds of like five year olds and six year olds and seven year olds who line up on the fence of our distribution centers every day. And they watch this teamwork and they cheer every launch and every landing and they are the future engineers of Rwanda. So that's that's why we do what we do. And why we think that this kind of technology can can have a positive impact in the world. Thank you. And I know in just a little bit. We're going to get to the QNA's bell on. I'm sure the other piece of this is the narrative around technology eagles job loss. I would love to explore that as well. And have a challenge in conversation around that can I put you on without really quickly. There's some exciting news to a now some expansions. Yup. I mean with a bunch of things technically say publicly, but suffice it to say, I mean, the really cool thing I guess is just that Rwanda is now serving as a role model to a lot of other countries both in Africa. And then some of you may have read last week actually, the department of transportation just announced that they are going to begin their this. They're partnering with zip line to do medical delivery starting in North Carolina. And if you want to know how they figure that out they went and asked for one to Rwanda's doing it. So it's a pretty amazing. Stay tuned. David over to and I'm very excited about this many people, of course, have heard of world reader in your strategic partnership with Amazon your entire distribution model depends on technology, and you have an audacious school reaching one billion people tell us about it. I'll do it. That's quite an introduction thing. Good morning everyone. Yeah. So my name is David and I'm with world leader. And his captain says we want to get a billion people reading so simple. Right. So I've got a couple of pictures as well. Maybe we're too. But this is sort of one way to look at the problem. They're better billion. This is a library is actually a picture we took in Ghana about ten years ago. And I don't know about you guys. But I actually spent a lot of time in libraries as a kid has actually raised by single mother, and this is sort of how how see sort of babysat my brother amused. She would drop my brother and me off at a library. And we'd get a sack of books. We come home. We'd read them, and that was sort of our our education growing up will this is a librarian Ghanem, and it's delightful room. It's got natural light and everything you'd want except for obviously one very important thing so about ten years ago account, and I started with this kind of crazy idea of maybe we can get a billion people reading, but use technology. And that the thesis we had is look it's easier to move bits than atoms. So this was pre drone now, you can move Adams a little more. He's still if you can figure out a way to beam things around the world. That's that's handy. Technology is going to get cheaper and cheaper now. So when we started world reader way back in the day. This actually was the first one first pictures we ever actually took. Yeah. Yeah. One of the first pictures actually ever took in Ghana back in two thousand ten we were at the time using a four hundred dollar kindle, but we had a pretty good sense that over time, you know, the price of that kindle was going to come down. Now kindles cost fifty dollars. We actually get them for less from Amazon, I'll tell you, but that in a second. But anyway, the thesis was look technology will get less and less expensive reading will matter more and more over time. And then the other keep a point. And actually, I love the point of local context and local relevance is you know, what maybe what we can do is. We can put not just western books into kids hands and encourage them to read that way. But maybe we can actually put local books right into kids hands and have them read those books. So I'll take you back here for another second. This is two thousand ten the for sixth grade classroom. We ever worked at in Ghanem. We literally took we hustled about twenty kindles over the border. We put a bunch of books on them at the time. They are actually more international books than local books, and we watch the kids read. And they looked down. And then they look at us. And they'd say, can we have another would say sure when we download another book using the cellphone infrastructure. And that's when we began to realize that this this could really work. With the other interesting things that happened in this classroom, by the way, you can see some books in the back of the class. Some of you get sometimes donors send books to classrooms in not in in places like Ghana. And so I picked up book off the bookshelf. I walked in to see with with the kids were reading and the first book picked up was a book of the history of Utah. We'll get you guys. I mean, honestly, I don't think the kids in Utah out. That's so, but that was sort of the status quo. But now you sort of fast forward, and you realize you're right. The world can leapfrog you actually can launch over entire physical infrastructure that wasn't really set up very well for moving physical books around but works perfectly. Well. In fact, they will offer digital bucks so fast forward. I thought we might do is talk about three projects. We're working right now to give you a sense of the scale and also the systems change, the we're trying to we're trying to affect so always three elements to our program. There's technology, you know, might be a kindle increasingly it's a cell phone with millions of people using cell phones every month. I'm back down to the second using apps that we've written so there's always technology appropriate to number two. There's always local relevant content. We've digitized forty thousand books over the last eight years there in about three hundred and fifty languages in fact, Kenya Rwanda their books and Kinyarwanda that line. Nightside language English is the first biggest, but then Spanish, and that's what he got a way African languages Hindi and so forth, and so on so we've digitized enormous number of books, and we can talk about that process a little bit. And then the third part is is reading support the local school systems, the local libraries parents have to be involved in these programs for these programs to work. So what do they look like, then when we combine all those embraced what do they look like, we'll give you one example. I mentioned Ghana that's where we started working ten years ago right now, we're working in what about two hundred schools in Ghana already, but we're working with an entire school district in Ghana called the quad Baram school district that school district by the end of twenty twenty. We'll have forty five thousand children ninety schools every one of them that's every primary school and probably bear. We'll be reading digitally by the end of twenty twenty using world leaders technology in books. That's very exciting to us. Because once you get an entire school system that can serve as a model for country, and that model can serve as. For the world, very similar to your to your point Cal is that kind of using systems and sort of working at a system level and then use then kind of replicate I. Second-story Kenya National library serves about four years ago. We decided rather than just work in schools. It's also working libraries because I've risen great vectors into communities. They help parents help students they help communities become a reading communities. Awesome. We started a small pilot in Kenya. We had about eight libraries patronage increased by I think it was about tenfold by the end of that that trial now fast forward a couple years later were in all sixty one public libraries in Kenya. So can you have sixty one libraries are world reader program, but twenty five meters two hundred local books all digitize all the librarians trade that is now an every single library in Kenya. And we just did the math in this a couple of days ago. And this is crazy we found that there have been over two hundred fifty thousand what are called out of library borrow so people that either taking them home or using them in a community outreach program, and it additional three hundred thousand. People using them within libraries or checkouts within a library. So that's five hundred fifty thousand uses of kindles over eighteen months in the Kenya. National library service reading local books just scale that you could never imagine sort of back in back in the day and over thirty thousand new patrons, which is huge by the way. I should point out this this guy. He's a he's a young, man. His name is Kelvin. He's a librarian, and he literally goes out into the community every week and any holds reading sessions, he literally puts readers down on desks tables and holds reading sessions, and it's to the point where he's actually a friend of mine on Facebook. Now, it's kind of amazing. It's to the point where people as walking through his community people. Call him reader, either they just say e reader reader, and in fact, if you go up to medium is actually a ridden apiece. He Kelvin has written a piece called they call me reader about the church transformational impact it's had on himself enough also on the communities last door. By the way, that program is supported by Amazon Amazon's just given us they haven't made this public yet. But it's in the order of a million dollars worth of kindles to use as a learning partnership with Amazon, actually, an important kind of substrate talk about last book story. This is a a trip who took to India just a couple of months ago. I India we're working with new parents to try to get them to read with their children on their cell phones. So everyone has a cell phone. Reading is not reading children's not a big part of the culture. But it's so very important for cognitive development parent child bonding and a bunch of other things anyway, this is a picture that we took the woman sitting next to me is Kate James James is the chief marketing officer of Pearson Pearson is the sponsor of this program, and they gave us actually a two million dollar grant to develop this program in India to get parents read to their kids. What are the been the results the result of two hundred thousand parents reading their children have reg of their children over the last? Two years fifteen thousand of them reading about four times a month. And this woman hear the story. She's telling me she says at night now when I come home two things number one. I hold up my phone. So that I can get were by books to read to my own son just incredible story, and she said my son. That's where sunsetting right there. My son. Now, you don't feel so strongly about reading that. I now want to have a new smartphone of my own rather than just rely on my my husband's kind of hand-me-down smartphone, so incredibly powerful empowering program there. So look we want to get a billion people reading, we know we can't do it alone. So far, we've gone from about a couple of hundred kids reading back in two thousand ten to about seven point six million people, but it's really all done in partnership. It's done with some of the biggest corporations in the world Amazons of the world, the Pearsons the world some of the smallest local publishers in the world that we started working with many many years ago, and I'll just leave you with one thought which I suspect Oliver share is great Kenyan proverb. Which says if you want to go far to me if you want to go fast, go alone. If you wanna go far, you will together were enormous believers in the power partnership to bring about this this system strange to get into billion people reading, thank you. Thank you so much in for. Well, we really want to have an interactive discussion and conversation with all of you. And we have about twenty five minutes left in the session. I'm going to take moderators privileged. Just ask a couple of broad questions of my own food for thought as we jumped into this dialogue in the first. Whoever is interested these take it, you know, what have been your major technology learnings along the way, I mean, even better would have been your major fails. And that you knew sort of how was that? Now shaping any big bets or technology investments that you're making it at the moment. Likes to take that. Okay. I'll talk about failures. Clearly pretty easy for us. I mean, we crashed. And we crash all the time under test circumstances. Like, these are airplanes that are meant to be fully autonomous. And whenever we make a mistake in the software or in the hardware these vehicles. Don't work. And and so, you know, I guess what I can say is one if you aren't willing to crash metaphorically or literally in our case, it will be impossible to to do something new with technology. So we we built our company on a farm in Half Moon bay and have one hundred people working out there in these mobile construction trailers, and that has a neighbor us to use the product every single day. And it's okay to crash of a vehicle can't fly. Then we learned something from it, and we fix it. And we're flying again the next day. And I think the the other side of it is that this when it comes to new technology, the other point I'll make is that it doesn't have to be perfect to provide a lot of value. You know, the use case that we're focusing on is so clear, and so obviously needed that even when things don't work perfectly. And as an example of that. I mean every once in a while our delivery accuracy algorithms are often. We've actually liked delivered blood onto the roofs of some of these hospitals once in a while and a lot of times people here that in. They're like God, it's terrible. You can't like I can't believe you survived that. And that reality is the doctor's got a ladder got up on that roof got the blood, and they transfused into the patient and save your life like they don't care. So I guess I just need to say, I think sometimes we're so bashful. And so trying to you know, really put our best foot forward and act perfect. And the reality is the technology does not have to be perfect in fact, far from it to save lives and have a big impact. Get back on that. Okay. Such an important point. And so many we made so many mistakes, and we're making mistakes right now a guaranteed right now, we get a million and a half rows of data a day from all of our reading logs, and we have no way to process it efficiently. I mean, it's not like freshman airplane. But it's still it's frankly crashing own systems and our own ability to sort of make any sense of it. But it's not gonna stop us from continuing to move forward. It's not gonna stop us from continuing to one of the things, Jeff as my old boss says often is it's called an experiment because you don't know if it's going to succeed like that's kind of the point if you know is going to succeed, it's not even experimenting after we want to experiment in this some of our big mistakes. I mean, look we this is more of an evolution. I guess the mistake we started using one software platform kindle now, we've got a lot more readers on cellphones. Because guess what to your point earlier Keller technology moves ahead. And if you get stuck if you get sort of super, hyper focused on one. Modality. You're screwed someday. Drones will move on or whatever they'll be some, you know, quad wing version of a drone that if you're not paying attention to now, you won't even see coming and someone else will get passed or whatever it is. I just think the of another really good mistake to kind of point up. Pas they're going back to more thoughts of me. But yeah, I mean, I could go on and on about mistakes. That's where you have all your learnings and growth. Yeah. But I think for us, you know, back to distributing in the US every single day across thirty cities. We had this hypothesis when we started out we thought, oh, we can produce. Source and design these fresh meals for schools, and we invested in refrigerated distribution to go throughout our communities, and what we realized very quickly is that our schools that we were serving whether it was charter schools or big school districts or a YMCA system didn't have refrigeration. So we were getting mean, effectively, what was happening is there were gigantic freezers where frozen food was being shipped from say the midwest to San Francisco, you know, very very low quality frozen kind of commodities product and then put in gigantic microwaves. And that's what kids were eating every single day until in order to design a fresh system and invest in refrigerated distribution, and everything that comes with that we had to really crack that code of how do we get fresh food equipment and infrastructure into schools, which is a whole. All other of barrier. Right. And not to your point. It was not a red foods only thing. I mean, we went out and partnered with foundations across the US to try to fund equipment and infrastructure within our communities so that students could actually access receive refrigerated fresh meals, and then eat those meals versus having months and months of frozen commodities food stacking up in freezers where it would be microwaved later. So, you know, and now we're actually looking at heating and prepping food along the way in distribution, which is sort of the next frontier. So that students are receiving those meals just fresh and hot and delicious. And they're not sitting there. A warming of oven for any period of time. So we have a lot of a lot of stumbles trying to sell our fresh healthy product in the school systems who are like we can't accommodate this. We could never move to fresh so great reflection. What I thought what I would do just really quickly as also offer. The results of a survey that we conducted of the shop on dishes, Google, social entrepreneurs community, and for those who aren't familiar with us the network now comprises about three hundred fifty organizations both four profit about two-thirds, our nonprofit and one third are four profit organizations with rations about one hundred countries. And so in the run up to the form Daniel meeting in Davos this year, we issued a survey and when asked which technology holds the most promise for their business model a majority of the social entrepreneurs responding said. Big data an internet of things those were by far the top two next came artificial intelligence and three D printing. And when asked what major technology investment they've made in the past year, the clear winner was big data followed closely by energy because many of these organizations work in emerging markets with without stable power supplies. And then after that came I o t AI three D printing and blockchain and so interesting low. Interestingly though, a third of respondents said they had not made a technology investment in the past year. So I'm curious. You know, sort of what are your reactions to that? In particularly, you know, what advice would you give to those nonprofit leaders in the audience about not about what specific investments to make. That's very context specific. But you know, we're should they start what kind of questions should they ask what resources could they turn to and really critically? How can they bring their funders and partners along those journey? Any reflections to that before we open up to the audience? I mean for me, I think it's very what we see is that even when we're working with some of the most prestigious, go public health organizations in the world, the the level of risk aversion is incredibly high there is basically only a willingness to do things that are sure to work, and and as you were just mentioning that basically means that you will not be able to leverage technology or do something new and. The reality is that even really successful technology companies. You mentioned Jeff Bezos. I mean, they try so many things and the vast majority them don't work Amazon phone, huge disaster. And Jeff was like I'm glad we wasted a billion dollars on that. He's totally willing to take the risk. And so I think the reality is that in my opinion, the most transformative things the way that we can dramatically increase access access dramatically reduce cost for for the billions of people on the planet who don't have access to the kinds of services that we enjoy is going to be through technology. But if. Social entrepreneurs. And nonprofits today, take the perspective of we're only willing to do things that don't engender risk, then that means that those organizations will have no part in bringing that technology to those people. And so for me, I think it it's like it needs to be in a conversation probably with the board and with investors or LP's or funders, whoever it is to say like if we do we do we not want to be a part of this transformation? That's definitely going to happen. And if we do then we have to be willing to take real risk and set the expectation that some of the things we do will outright fail. They'll say just a couple of words on so maybe the Amazon stories kind of illustrative since we've mentioned Jeff a couple times. So we've been working with Amazon for eight years, and and we've been very significant partner of sin certain ways, even still when we made the most recent ask to them for about ten thousand devices to use across this entire school district in Ghana. They really hesitated and the hesitated. Because we've we I pitched it to the as sort of kind of charity, and what they actually ended up saying, this is charity may or may not be a good idea. But as a way for us to learn about reading in the developing world digital reading the building world, there's no better partner, then you've got. So they look to us to help from the reason it's relevant is because so we had to take the risk. We took eight years of risk before they were willing to say that I mean and philanthropic capital. I think can actually be a really helpful way to take respite you have to find the right philanthropist to work with. Who've got a long-term view on the upper hand. Once you've made the case once you've made the case fairly, well, then you can take to all sixty one public libraries in Kenya. Or then you can take it to forty five thousand kids in gone because then you've dearest it enough that even the big companies, even the ones who say they like risks still don't want that much risk. They can sort of come on his partner. So it's a little bit of a sort of a nuance thing. But I think you have to kind of think about you layering that risk and sort of thinking about Witcher your with your support are willing to take some of the higher risk early bets around technology and unproven things, and it all sounds very scary. And blah, blah, blah. Then you prove it a little bit. And then people come on that people could say, okay, you've proven enough. That's fine. We'll we'll take you to the next level you go. Find your next funders for the for the people want to take the big risk ver- for the next generation of big ideas. The only thing I'll add. So you guys have hit funders governance kind of values based part of that values based investor or board selection, including taking risk. I think the only dynamic all ad which is part of my growth curve is the CEO is managing your team like that. So there has to be a really safe space within the company to to make mistakes. And there's gotta be a safe space to pilot. And there's got to be a we'd now have referred to it as micro tests were doing a series of micro test for us on fresh food access for for the parents and our schools, not just the students, and we've had tons of results that have not ended up the way we thought they would and we've put money towards it and we've put team and resource in RND and production towards it. And that's okay. You know, so having just a an agreement with your team around. How are we going to test? What are we going to spend? What does success look like? What is the timeframe over which we're going to test? And how are we going to review those results? Learn really quickly from those results and refocus. So I think just in my growth as a CEO. There's a big management component of it to a great reflection. Now to your question, there's a microphone. I'd love to take a couple of questions before we go back to the panel in the interests of times, we get your questions. Thank you. Please. Introduce your Evan Marwell. I run organization called education superhighway question as you think about the being four profit in a social impact space. How do you think about pricing and trade-offs between prophets and impact in growth in your businesses? Are we all for profit? We're nothing offers. But we think about them in the forefront. Probably think about it in a similar way we expect well there. Well there. Sorry. Is there another question? Yes. Right over here. Please introduce yourself is how you find me. Me loose the run on. We're going to say. And that and my Christian to all of us if you can share a little bit about, you know, your decision process to become a social entrepreneur. So why you take that is great. Okay. Hoops were we'd like to start on either one I can go. They're both great questions. Hi, evan. I can start with a a little bit of thought on that. I mean, revolution foods has been really aggressive in our strategy to scale and effectively we knew from day one. We're a four province -ocial enterprise. It'd be corporate think we're one of the first before, but we knew right away that we we had about two dollars and ninety two cents to provide a full lunch to students every day a dollar and seventy cents for breakfast and probably seventy cents for a snack. And we knew that it would take scale to reach an even positive level. So and new that sort of creating that access was first and foremost for us. So again back to what Keller said, we took very much view of. Let's be really honest about our projections, and what it's gonna cost to provide the quality that we know kids and families deserve. At a certain level of scale before reaching not EBITDA positive point for us. And we knew that we had to price within reimbursement. Rates to make our nutrition affordable and accessible to the schools and communities. We wanted to serve which are about seventy five percent free introduce lunch. So very very low income overall. And again, I think it's about that agreement and that alignment with your investors. And we've had a lot of people say no way, we would not invest in this. It's a seven year horizon versus a two year horizon. And I think that's okay because the people who are the right people opt in and the people who were the wrong folks opt out, and so it's it's been a very conscious decision to scale to a certain level nationally with a clear perspective on sort of at what point we would break, even and for us one hundred million dollars in revenue before we got to that. We're about one hundred and fifty million dollar company, right? Now, and it took about level to get to a point where we can provide access to large public school systems and generate core market core market profitability in our regions. I mean, our perspective is just that. Like this sense that. You. Shouldn't have a margin in terms of the service, you're providing I think you often hear it in global public health. I think it's like so far off because the reality is for us that we just think the most transformational changes that are going to play out in in in these economies over time. It's going to be due to things that are scalable. And so it's really important for us that each distribution center, not only be able to cover its own costs. But also that we can take some of that money and fund future growth. So that we can take that success that we see in Rwanda to now Ghana and Tanzania and lots of other countries that we've announced we're working in. So I think that I and not only that. But then it's the point I made which is that I think so much of the services that are being provided in a purely philanthropic way in these countries don't actually work that well because the organization it's not the organization's Paul. It's just that the organization has no ability to a raise money from private investors, which while you're giving up a huge resource there and. Be you don't have the ability to take something from your operations and reinvested making actual product better or the team better. And so, you know, zip line we've tried to position our company in a way where we have a very clear mission. Like, we know what we want to accomplish in the world, we know whose lives when wanna make better. But because we're also building technology that's relevant in a number of different markets. We've been able to raise over. I mean today we've raised over fifty million dollars from private investors able to partner with public organizations like Gabby and the Gates Foundation. And then we're able to sign contracts directly with governments where they're paying per delivery. So this is kind of a different model. But the exciting thing about it is it will actually scale to a billion people. And I guess I guess I think we kinda miss your question though. So what what got you started and David maybe you want to take that one to actually I'll try to take them both Evans, and yours because her so we're a nonprofit funnily enough over the last five years we've raised about fifty million dollars as well. So sort of similar scale, we took the view, and this gets to your question about why sort of entering the sort of social enterprise space and kind of blend between nonprofit, a social enterprise, we sort of took the view that this was a market failure. This was not going to happen that the the big company the big publishers the world, the big harbour manufacturers world, even the big school systems will work going to focus on digital in getting billions of people to read digitally anytime soon. Not in the next five ten fifteen years. You know, Amazon's got a lot of things on their mind. Pearson's got a lot of things on their mind. And so this is going to be opportunity to number ten thousand on their list. If we sorta let the market. Play. And maybe maybe they'd never get to it on the other hand, we could serve prime that pump world. You know, we could sorta say like let's figure out a way for us to demonstrate that this works and almost show them that there may be a market there may still be two to five to ten years out. But at least they should be thinking about it. And we have some evidence both with Amazon and Pearson. Microsoft is well actually gets back to the earlier question. Big mistakes. We actually made a big windows phone version of our app. Anyone here use windows? Yeah. I thought zero so that was a mistake on our part we made that we've we sort of bet on the wrong horse there. But in any case still we were trying to demonstrate to a for profit. Maybe if you park with us, it might open up a new opportunity in that case, it wasn't enough to save them. But I think in to your point color. I think the there's an expression no margin. No mission. You know? So even in the nonprofit space, you have to figure out what your economic Sar, and you better figure out that your costs your costs better be lower than than your pricing. Whatever it is. It may just be that the pricing isn't the pricing to the end user. But. Some other donor who's you kind of this triangle thing going on or donor funds. You, and then you cost it in a way that allows you to then deliver the service over here. But I I don't think there's a good what you can't go to a billion people. If you don't have a pretty strong economic model and donor funding is probably not a strong enough economic thought you'd better have some revenue as well. Other questions. I see one question here on one question right here up front. Please introduce yourself Kelly Hutchinson from the university of Melbourne a strategy until the accent. I'm interested. We you mentioning that the Dada Dada was the most important thing that nonprofits and social enterprises identified. So I asked the question what does from whom when and how so we know that through such I've done for my PHD that data is always provided from the nonprofit the fun. The funding the beneficiary through to the funding organization. And it's quite a requirement full these organizations to actually deliver on that. And I've actually given advice if you don't have your small non profit, and you don't have the ability to do the monitoring and evaluation don't take the money 'cause you need to spend ten to fifteen twenty percent unnaturally proving how you did what you did. And those those that metrics measurement. I know is the other areas changed, but what I'm interested. See is. Is there an appetite for sharing of this data because that's the only way we're going to get to Sciutto is actually having big Dada. Don't just out of what I've done in what these known done exactly looking at that analysis across the whole sector and actually twin you bring different data sources together that you actually get the science. So it's actually the economic data from the macho working, it's if you're able to see what the potential for a commercial entity might be in the future. And how are you approaching that data question from old the perspective from the short foundation as well? That's a great question unless question right here. Can you introduce yourself? I think this works. My name is not syringe male. I work with care, and I work in Somalia, so perhaps not a place that you're all going to be running to to test your model, but Tom, you know, somebody that's been one of these countries have been there protected prices for so long has all kinds of issues that we don't have time today, but I'd be really interested because we've been talking about throughout this morning models in pivoting responding to moments, but being planning for movements that lasts long. I'm wondering with your models. I suppose they've been models that have gotten you here to the successes that you have but what new models look like that. I think for me, I think about models that can work in conflict setting sometimes many organizations like like, my own has had a lot of difficulty. And we don't celebrate the kind of filler is that I think is being expressed today. In fact, we get the term down for for funding when you adapt. When you experiment. So my question is what what are the models are going to get you through the next ten twenty thirty years. Great big questions. Perfect questions and Don data and pivot and particularly the relevance in conflict zones keeping in mind. Chance or the conflict question. That's something. We get asked about a lot for obvious reasons in their big advantages of using autonomous delivery methods. If you're in a war zone, or if it's very dangerous to send a human out. So examples of that would be when conflict is ongoing or you know, you just may have read that there's been a new Abullah outbreak in the DRC. These are really good examples where sending a human who's like basically willing to sacrifice their life. I mean that's incredibly relic, but we should not have to force people to sacrifice their lives in order to deliver critical medical care to people in an outbreak, scenario or conflict scenario. So that's definitely something. We're really really excited about that said, and this just gives you a sense for where we're coming from like zip line has been dealing with haters for seven years now who told us this was the stupidest idea ever and was never gonna work and we've had to not only ignore them, but we've had to go disprove them. And so we have made we've been very cautious about making sure that in the first few countries. As we launch in the technology doesn't feel for reasons that don't have to do with the technology. And and that is our primary concern in terms of starting in some of these much harder to to to operate regions. It is a core part of our mission. And we want to do it. It's just that. We can't do it. I because we got to prove that it works somewhere. I. Thanks color, the data question. Sure. I'll take data in fifteen seconds or less. I mean, so we actually you know, what good news Zev low who's sitting right? There is actually one of our chief data guys at world leader at he's all about trying to figure out a way not just to collect the data. But to share it as well, I'll say we work with the university of Washington even worse San Francisco based in the US, but the university of Washington has a lab called technology and social change, and they're doing a lot of the analysis for us of our data set impart to help us not just understand what's going on. But also to share with the world. I think your your your point is is is spot on. It's really one of the game changers because we don't have to guess anymore. Someone reading we can know, and we can no is a school performing underperforming to game changer, but Charon super key gotta have help with it. Chris any reflections on how you're going to pivot for the five ten fifteen years ahead. I think I've been very well part of it as pivoting but staying at it in the sense of taking away excuses. I mean, what I've been really pleasantly surprised by with all the challenges of being an entrepreneur and trying to scale is the fact that you actually don't have to have that much scale to drive systems change. So for us. We may seem big versus enterprise actually, quite small for a big company and we're seeing procurement policy shift. We're seeing big legacy food companies respond. We're seeing. Fresh food aggregation and access improve in a way that just wasn't possible five years ago. So I do think and most importantly, we're seeing clear academic outcomes in our schools correlating the approach degrade intrusion with improved academic performance. So I think the really positive thing is this this movement of social enterprise and innovative models can actually drive a lot of change at not too big a scale if we stick with bit and keep taking away the excuses and keep aggregating the data and sharing that you can be a small organization and still shift system. I think absolutely brilliant note for us all to end on. We are out of time. I really wanna think David color and Chris for sharing their insights with us today. You've been listening to a podcast by Stanford social innovation review, a part of the center on philanthropy and civil society at Stanford University for more podcasts articles and other content about innovating persona change. Please visit our website at SSI dot org. Follow us on Twitter or like us on Facebook. I'm Eric ni. And thank you for listening.

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S5 EP129 The New Convention with Krista Fraizer Marquardt

Go All In

1:04:30 hr | Last month

S5 EP129 The New Convention with Krista Fraizer Marquardt

"Welcome to the PODCAST I'm your host Robert broths end today on the show. We have KRISTA MA court from the new convention on cost the new convention. He's all about living life differently, so if you've ever wondered what it tastes to do, just that and you're gonNA love this episode. Let's get started. Well everyone! How are you tonight? I trust that things are not. In your part of the world with the ongoing pandemic, and all of the restrictions that have been posed upon us all I took some time this morning to get into the ocean to go spearfishing yet, that's right in the middle of winter waters pretty Colbert's about sixteen degrees, but the wetsuit fixes that so no issue and go to leave all of the craziness of humanity behind for a couple of hours. That's funny how you can completely forget about the news and all of the disasters of the world just in Nitra just for a few hours. As soon as I, go back to the car and on the radio one was talking about the damn pandemic again so I switched off and listen to some music in are totally ignored the madness of the world, and it felt good to switch off to unplugged and I think I'm going to do that. Small as all of this `isolation and bad news seems to be cumulative on poston particularly. And I didn't realize how it was caught a dragging me down, and I just wanted to share that with you quickly to remind you to be kind to yourself and take some time to get back to Niger. Is that certainly does help especially with all the bad news around? Today on the podcast we have Krista court from the new convention or cast Chris deeply passionate about living life differently. Her tigon, which love is trading the conventional for something more intentional and I love that. Now. If this is your first storm here at the golden show them, it's great to have you here and if you back for more welcome back, we love our repeat offenders here on the goal in podcast before we get into the show today, just take a little picky. You find and hit the subscribe button on the APP that you're listening in on. And if you're watching Nitzan you'd. On the subscribe button and don't forget to ring a bell as well that Y, you'll always have some goal in motivation and some Elon. Love wrought the in your pocket. Lastly if you like what you heated I, please share this episode with your friends and Family Christa has an important message that she's going to share with us on the podcast, and if we can just have one or two people to break through their barriers and get on stock then we would have done our job here on the show today. Already. Let's get into this. How'd you hear from Chris from today's interview? Chris podcast is a great reminder that your ideal life is much. Much closer than you think she loves to tell. Stories of people living by their own rules for a more sustainable, abundant and meaningful loss. It's everything from lost alter relationships mindset to money and lots of other things in between as well if it's unconventional in, Krista will certainly share it with you Chris go in. Story is a welcome reminder to us all that Lafayette happening to us right now and that we shouldn't define ourselves by what we do for a living. Instead we should live in accordance with our values. Allow that to sit the course and define the purpose of our lives. I'm excited she sees. Please help me in welcoming Krista mcchord. Brought a welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you. It's great to be here. Thank you so much. I was a little bit of a journey that you and I have been on. It into some of that he on the PODCAST, looking forward to getting a little bit of an update actually in hearing how it's all going for you how it's all tracking for you, but before we get into the showed i. He called Michael That, hapless. Gets No, you a little bit to the people that are listening in and watching that have never met you ahead of you before. Tell us about you. Where are you from? There's a funny action on the end they're. Fun of that come on come was Ozzie. It's American accents for those of you. That might think it's Canadian. I moved to Australia about five years ago and absolutely love it and trying to get citizenship, but it keeps getting postponed due to Kobe so hopefully someday. I can say I'm Australian. And maybe my my ozzy words. My accent will pass in ten years or so. Maybe, I don't think so learned a lot of words. Whereabouts in US you from I'm from Colorado originally. What brought you to Sydney my husband's job, so we moved here for his job, but before we moved here, we try. We've been trying to move here forever, so it was like a six year journey of knowing we wanted the common, then finally finding organization that. Would move us. Is it Colorado Utopia of the United States in the mountains and the? Only outdoor and all that stuff isn't a beautiful place it is. It's very diverse, so you have you have the plains the mountains you have the desert. There's a lot going on in Colorado and I do love it, but it's very very dry, so your lips are constantly chapped. Your skin's constantly dry, but it's gorgeous. I actually I consider Seattle home. That's where we lived before we moved here in. Seattle is also stunning. Perfect kind of moisture level for your skin. Although it does rain a lot, so that's Colorado's very sunny and Seattle's very rating. While I was GONNA say Colorado, sounds like it's got everything, but it's missing one critical pace that we have here in Australia everywhere. Which is the Patriot? Yes yeah. It's definitely messing that. What? What's that like an American coming here? Is that still a novelty for you even after all this time because? On the northern beaches of Sydney, it's like some of the best in Australia having so it never gets old and. We'll I told you we're looking to move house ends. We haven't had very much luck because we have a giant dog and nobody wants to rent to us, but. We refused to move away from the beach. Because we love it so much and some of the real estate agents are like. Oh, you should move inland and I'm like no I didn't move to the other side of the world to live inland. Thing is we live on an island draw, so you need to be near the water on? The island that's. Excellent excellent. Krista thanks for sharing a little bit of that with us there on the front end all the podcast, also a little bit about what your into and what you've been working on because that's been a work in progress. Yes so I've been working on a podcast with you and I can't highly. If anyone wants to start a podcast, go with Robert. He's amazing. I've been I love public speaking and I've always wanted to find an outlet. Odds be able to speak more and the project that I've recently been working on the past six months really. It's called the new convention, so I interview people who live differently which I think is a very timely topic. Given the time that we're in right now, so. Who are living by their own rules, and really creating new conventions around lifestyle relationships money in career and. It's been a a huge dirty for me. Just learning from my gas has been amazing. One just back up just a second because you said something. That was a little bit crazy to a lot of people listening and watching is that you love public speaking a lot of people s like a big Afi than than dying for some people. What what is it that particularly draws to that and it's attractive to you. I think I just love the energy of it. especially I mean. Don't get me wrong. I can be scared of public speaking depending on what the situation is and why I have to stand up in public, speak in general. I've just always loved teaching. My whole life I'm also in learning and development so I do a lot of teaching and leadership training. I've been a yoga teacher and so being able to get up in front of people and help them and provide opportunities to learn an inspire to me is just such a gift, and it just so much energy so i. I do love it. And what have you learned about? Public speaking skills learning to podcast because that's something a little bit different and. I remember how to podcast. Trying to doctor. Conversation is really what you're doing. Ends at feel so awkward and Clunky and clumsy to begin with, and so like I'm good at this. I can go to the Pablo and talk to somebody for five hours fourteen Biz. Why do this Dan podcasting being? What did you? Think. It's different because with public speaking especially when I'm typically doing a speaking engagement, it's just myself speaking and I do engage with the audience, but it's very different than an interview. And so I I do find that where what I thought, I was an excellent public speaker and I go back, and I listened to my recordings and I'm saying so an arm and a Not as clear as I was hoping is going to be, but I think eventually I'll get there where it's easy. I think the virtual aspect having a camera in your face knowing it's being recorded as a little bit daunting. was good at it as you thought you were public speaking on the. I think so I think I am. Just because I've won a lot of awards in my field, not necessarily due to public speaking. Specifically, but mainly because of the programs that I've run and getting up in front of people and. So I do think I I don't want to sound like I'm cocky or anything, but I do think that's a gift that I have is public speaking. I think it's really important that you know your place. When you try to do something like that for me. I was never very good at public speaking on my. Looks now. The military is instruction. Y, you don't learn to public. Speak in the military when you're as you move up through ranks and you do different different jobs, you loan to instruct people, and it's quite different public speaking you know the the judge that we used to have around the parachute school was the the Bibey paratroopers would come in that they all scared and be like Oh my God, what am I getting myself into and? You know that if you fall asleep in here to recall his bleeding nose. Sort of the adage that you have in the army. You know it's sort of real old school. But what did he do? That taught me to get up in front of a a lodge group of people regularly, and even though they're a captive audience and listening to you because I kind of have to listen to you, and I have to be there and they're learning. Something helped me to overcome that trepidation. Trepidation in fee and I would still you know Gosh are we get up in front of two or three hundred people at a time, and have to deliver lessons, and I would have to divide up a large group of people and run the fitness sessions and the fitness assessments before I could actually get into the parachute school would have to pass those assessments, and you know those those sessions would loss. Our to Alice sometimes and then throughout the courses we would be in front of that same group again, demonstrating and doing a whole bunch of stuff, and every now and then you would have to go and get ray qualified to make sure your currency was there, and you jump on the same course with these by paratroopers going on their first jumps, and you'd walk out there with them. That and you'd be going yourself. Be like. Oh My. Water. Shit myself just as badly as. A really when I love the podcast and particularly in businesses well. Presenting and doing instruction on Donald of instruction. In digital marketing and helping people with their coo, and things like that, and we rent my brother-in-law, or read a little courses doing that, and that was always easy, 'cause it's instruction when I transitioned into podcasting like this, Oh my God, I was strike back on that learning curve. For me about thirty episodes to figure it out, you're much faster, which is go back and listen to yourself and cringe. I don't really cringe. That's good. I think how come you didn't know that how come you didn't do it better in why? Why didn't you think about it like that or silo that and every now and then of. In the last week of being on to other people's podcasts, and they were real pros. Lock rarely experienced four five hundred episodes age. You get there, and they're all ready for you and they're doing these things in a setting up and just. Premeditate aches and then they get into, and it's such a natural thing for and even though I'm a couple of hundred now. I'm sort of like Manna got such a long way to go. We all do. I think it's never ending. It is A. It's a really really good thing. KRISTA before we go down that path any further because I wanNA talk about that a little bit more people come on over to the go all in podcast to learn about others that have gone all in, so can you please share with us your goal in story or stories and the lessons that you've learned from your commitment to success? Yeah so I. Would I think my biggest goal in story was about eight years ago when I quit my corporate life and quit my corporate job. And looking back over the past eight years, every decision that I've made has really led me to the point that I'm at now. But it was a big deal for me so at at the time I was working in learning and development. I had an amazing job and had just been nominated. Why just won an award for top professional in my field in the area that I lived in? By I I had a situation that happened around that time where an employee came to me, because even though I was doing learning and development I also got a lot of employees that came or coaching, and this particular employee came to me, because his spouse was really struggling at her job outside of completely separate from our company, but it was impacting his work, because his spouse was so depressing, stressed that it was causing him to be depressed and stressed at work, and he just wanted vice end. Long Story Short. It was about a six month period in which I coached this individual and his wife was trying to find another role. She hid had a manager that she loved. They retired new manager came in, and he was just it sounded like a tyrant, and really made her life awful to the point where she became depressed, they had four kids I'm. She didn't interact with their children anymore. She would come home and go straight to bed. She was talking about ending her life. and. The you can imagine when you're in that state and you're interviewing and they're trying to find another job. You probably don't come across that great and I asked him at the time. Because he was a really great guy and I really felt for everything that he and his family were going through. Why doesn't she just quit like it's not worth it? Why doesn't she just quit? And he said well she. Because, we just bought a new house. Our mortgage is too high. She quits. We won't be able to afford the mortgage. And it just killed me. Absolutely killed me hearing that that she felt stock, and she also had this dream of becoming a schoolteacher, but didn't feel like she could afford to not only job, but then to also go back to school and do what she really wanted to do and. That impacted me so much that I decided right then and there even know. I loved what I did I felt like there was more that I can offer the world and more that I wanted to explore and experience and I didn't want to get myself in that position where I felt stock financially. where I couldn't make a move, so I decided to quit. My corporate job and go pursue a different career and I would like to say that it was. A happy decision and everything went well, but actually when I quit my job I tanked emotionally, because I hadn't realized how much density was tied to my job and leaving, it left me for about two years where I really struggled trying to figure out what my new identity was, but I'm still so grateful. I made that decision because I went into Yoga. I became a yoga teacher and I did yoga therapy and I'm also. Feel guilty about saying this, but a bit of Tony Robbins Fan I love him and hate him at the same time like he drives me crazy, but there's some great things that I think he really teaches and. I think the yoga that I learned balanced out some of his teachings but it's just been a huge dirty right thing. I've really evolved as a person because I made that decision and even know it didn't work the way expected immediately overtime I. I've seen the impact that it's had on my life, so that was definitely a goal indecision, just quitting my job, and and taking a risk to explore something else and and I do have to say too. I think so many people especially when I listened to your show, and when I listened to other people who talk about going all in. They talk about going all in to pursue their passion men's. I personally got it caught my head that I need to find my passion like my life goal has to be about finding this passion, and it really caused a lot of angst and anxiety and stress because. There was this idea that I wouldn't be happy until I knew what that was, and I think that's a bit of a mess. I do think some people do have a passion. They wake up. They know exactly what it is. They're supposed to do. But I think there's a larger majority of people where that's not true. There's not the defined idea of who you are and what you're meant to be in and I. Think what I've learned through my personal journey as well as through interviewing people on the podcast I do is that. To me, the purpose of life is really about living in line with your values, so if you get really clear about what it is that you value, and you live in line with that, that's the purpose of your life and it. It may not be tied directly to a career or the work that you do. Specifically but if what you're doing is aligned with your values, that's where you're going to feel the best and then add the best value to the world so. That's my story. It's really it's really common. Common Story actually is that people get stocked. The, For lack of a better word, they don't have the courage to to go into to leave the thing that's making them unhappy bond. How long were you in that job for before when that happened like? Were you there for a couple of years? So I was in the field for about six years and that job I I wasn't unhappy. There I did love so my first four years I was with an organization where I wasn't I was learning lot. It was new, but it was a very bureaucratic organization. An didn't in the United States. I don't feel that even now. There's a lot of focus on people over profits. And when I moved to Australia, one of the first things I noticed joining the corporate world here is that there is much more of a relationship based focus and I know that profits are still important on. It probably depends on the organization that you work for and where their headquarters is based, but. I I love that. That you People seem to truly care about your well. Being and I think the laws and policies support that here so much more than they do in the states so I did like my job. It's just I think it was that difference of knowing. I like what I do, but I feel like there's. There's growth out there for me and I'm not going to get it. If I stay here, I'm so is about six years of being in that field left the left the job right after winning a big award, so I had a lot of guilt around that and then. Kind of took a journey of going back to university and and studying yoga and doing yoga, therapy and consulting work, and so an kind of gone full circle where now I'm back doing the work that I started, but I have a very different mindset around it. Then I did originally you don't tell your identity to I. Don't not at all. No and I think as well one of the things I love about learning and development, and through the things that I've learned through the Tony Work that I've done in through yoga. Is that you can? Really Mindset is so important. It's eighty percent of it. And so that's really where I try and focus my training. My teachings in the workplace workplaces on that that mindset in being very clear about what outcomes you want, achieve, and by and having that empowering reason behind everything that you do and I see massive change happening organizations when you come at it from that standpoint and. The neuroscience that's coming out really supports that, so I think that's where my passion still seeps through into the learning and development were in the past. It was a bit more traditional and how I approached it. As such an important story, I can recount a story of my dad of all people. Work for Qantas for twenty nine years. And back in the. Diet is where you're from. In the US, people went to school I went and got a job that had a career, and I stayed in that one place there in tyler was the same year in Australia as well and I think for about maybe fifteen of those twenty nine years old man height of what he did. And, it was because you know he was. He was part of the airline industry here in Australia, and it was a continual process of rationalization and I'm certain that the people listening and watching to this podcast would know what I'm talking about. I would know someone, maybe not from the spice, but certainly from an industry where it's a constant process of evolution and in that process what I do is I have continual restructures, and in those throughout those restructures is a bunch of people that get made redundant they like. I just got where the pioneer go. My super off I gotTa do my career and to do all that and oil man. I used to call it getting a tap on the shoulder. Top while man have whiting for fifteen years for that to happen, and he moved from job to job, and the tried that he did back in the back in the die was to Mica, and he's he's jaw, and he's role was superseded by machines by CNC machine, so he was Mike, Connors redundant by machines, but they still needed he skillset, and then he trained apprentices, and then Qantas stop having apprentices, and then he was instructing other things, and all these adleman jobs and stuff that he just hated just highlighted, and when he left, he was like Oh my God. What am I going to do? And I went a couple. Wick me. Just go out of the military and. he lived like probably about twenty minutes away from where I was, and I was like come work with mania. What would I do and unlike? Come help. Come and come and be an off saw come come and help out, and he was locked or and can distinctly remember that. He was like the whole world had been up to him, and it was a real pleasure Because my dad, my dad has passed away now, but it was a real pleasure when I look back at it. That I got spend so much time with him was like every single die for a couple of years because he lived close, and we used to travel to north Sydney together and drive around town together, but I remember in those first couple of weeks he would look out the window. It was like he was from the country and he'd never seen the city before. They look up at the squash. Gripe any. Looking around and is back in the day before there was JPs operating the street directory gone. Where are we going? Back those times, really funny but I also feel sorry for him in that process because he'd missed out on the entire world that was out there doing something that he highlighted lodge percentage of He's adult lawf- and in the end. I'm a saw bitter. That company and he stuck around there for a couple. More years and Indian wildland ended up being one of those dudes in a red shirt that you see in buntings. And found his place. He found his place. And while men working in retail lock, he just because of all the buntings bass that goes with any lodge company like that and I will always on the stop, but he found his purpose, and because he was so skillful with his hands, he was so handy, and who saw clever with bill would come in and go. Go to drill, is Holland move this and lot? The and that side is the most random things and I'd say. Go over to the shelf, pick up the drew bid, even the bits and pieces and again. That's exactly what you need. That's how he's my phone numbers from an awesome. Awesome? Yes really did to say. The lesson from what your story is in. If is don't stick around doing something that you just unhappy doing what is Mike. You unhappy for a very long time? Yeah, I think my experience working in hr four now. Oh God fourteen years! It's I've seen a lot of people who are very unhappy. in their jobs, and they make that pretty well known especially in the roles. That I've been an. And you want disable. Why don't you just leave and do something different, but I think there's there's also this very real issue in challenge of you have to have an income, and you need to be able to support yourself at I. Think a lot of people struggle with will. How do I do that and? One of the things that I would love to see change. And is education more at the when you're in high school like educating on how to do a budget how to save and invest. Because right now really were taught through social media through advertising through marketing that the more that we make you increase your lifestyle that's kind of the convention, and so the people constantly feel trapped in whatever it is, they're doing because they're not allowing themselves to really build wealth and to create that freedom to make different choices, and to take a break, or to take that risk to try something else, and that's really what I'm hoping to do through the new convention is. Is, give people, ideas and stories around how you can start to live your life differently so that it really is aligned to what you value, and you're not spending money just to escape the things that are making you feel bad. You know when you when you work all week and you don't get me wrong. I love going to the pub, but like you go to the pub on a Friday and you spend two hundred bucks because it was a shit week. Versus do you really value that is that going to the pub and I do like I get the friendships the chats, but do you need to spend that money there or there are other ways that you can spend it that really align with your values and have that more long-term vision for yourself and. And I think they're a have learned. There's so many different ways to live. The I never even thought of that are really cool and one of my favorite examples and I were working on this now. We haven't quite on nailed down yet, but we are looking to move, and we do want more space and kind of the conventional way you think about moving as all eight find a bigger place with more space, and you pay more money, mom, that's traditionally how it works, but one of things that we're looking at is. Trying to find an owner that's willing to let us rent a large house and we were looking very specifically for a house that has a separate living unit in the basement or a granny flat of some sort that gives us a lot of space, but negotiating where they allow us to Airbnb that extra space, and that does provide actually a lot of benefits to the owner because through AIRBNB. Get the host guarantee of A. A million dollars insurance it gets professionally cleans every time you have a guest, stay, so you're properties. Being fetter maintains it has more insurance than if you had a family living there for cam you guys look after it as well in the process, and then we look after it, so if anybody's being crazy and having parties were there and ideally what you would do through that situation as you could almost for your rents. And I guess I know we're in the Kobe situation, so it's a bit different now, but hopefully with domestic travel that opens up I'm you could almost pay for your entire wrench through airbnb being something if you found the right location and it was nice, and you'd have to definitely research, but there's a way that we can increase our lifestyle living in amazing place and actually pay close to nothing in rent. versus just thinking. Oh, I need to go. Buy Rent a place for a lot more or by a place. Upset with. Yeah, so that's that's the whole point. The new convention is what are these cool things that you can do to live the life you want that. Maybe you never even thought of your love a love that a lot. When you talk to people on your podcast about leaving differently and I have these new conventions themselves these folks they go away, and they found a slightly different purpose, or they found the purpose, but it's not what you think all before I'm interested to know. What it was like for you making a transition from the corporate world in the US. Going to do something a little bit more harmonious with the universe in Yoga. Did you discover your purpose there that help was? That must have been therapeutic in that transition period in that time to get over all of that identity crosses that you sell for all those sorts of things. Tell us about what that was like because I know that there'd be a lot of people listening to this podcast now thinking Oh my God to be a yoga, teacher or pilates teacher and I would love. Love to go and do that for a living. What was it really lock? Okay, what? It was really like your running around from location to location, trying to teach classes and most you can fit in least for myself. where I lived four classes a day, and by the time he get to the fourth class. You're teaching and you can't remember if you've already taught something or not. Because even teaching glass all day. Don't get me wrong. I had a lot of love for doing it, but it's not. It's not something unless you're really successful I. I don't know what the equivalent is in Australia, but let's like making the NFL the national football. League state lunch. On to be kind of that top yo neighbor, you really make a lot of money doing it, so you really have to do it because you love it wrong. And it is a lot of a lot of work and I I think to. What I got the most out of out of my experience with teaching Yoga, and going through the trainings and doing yoga therapy was realizing and I think this is an American thing. I was living so much from my head, and very logical analytical, and I'm still very much that type of person but yoga taught me to live more from my heart, and it's really get in touch with what is that I. Am I really living? In a way that's going to make me happy or am I. Living based off of what other people say is GonNa. Make me happy and That kind of heart space into my daily living I think is such a powerful thing that yoga really does because how much of our time do we really take to sit back and? Think about anything like that's the beauty of yoga meditation where you're just completely present in the moments. You're not thinking about while you're trying not to think about. What you're going to have for dinner the work that you have to do your fully concentrated on your breath, and you're allowing that mind body connection to take place and I think that's where a lot of. Our ability to get in touch with ourselves comes from is when we create that space for our selves, so whether you do it through, Yoga Tai Chi or meditation I don't think it really matters, but some sort of practice. The mindfulness base is very transformative. If you do a regular basis and I know when I get really stressed. I'm in that space now. Because I'm working just insane hours. I know the skills and tools that I need to go back to to get back into a good space, so not saying that I'm perfect at it. But I know what to do when when things get a bit out of Control and Gives you a little bit older, you. You have a bit more awareness that'd be more self awareness innocent mindfulness. Of, I'm also lock on slipping. He Yeah. Yeah, it's not exactly that way. I. Always making dinner and the the Diet ended up buying a hell of a die and had been. Felt like it was really disjointed. Always been pulled in five different directions and I did everything, but I did not think, and then I was like mindlessly lot looking at the FRY pan on an I'd tossing banking I just thought to myself. Socks. And you know typically after dinner. I would do something like personal development related. You know what something on Youtube broad read a book or Unplug from something, but I was like. You know I'm not doing that. I'm just GonNa Watch a movie and I'll play more movie on there and dislike I I. Don't think I've been really watched it to be honest with is just kind of went went to bed, light, light, embedded quarter pasta on again. Thank God that is over. We'll have died right? That's yeah and I think that's so important for people to realize. Because when you you hear and see people being successful, you think Oh, they they're portraying. Their life is so perfect and they've got it all figured out, and they don't get stressed and they don't get into these positions where the like. What the Hell am I doing but That happens to everybody. You know on a rather consistent basis. It's just learning practices so that you don't stay in that space. And that you're able to kind of pull yourself out. Move Forward. That's what really makes the difference. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I wanted to ask you I Maybe a little personal question might be told me to. Our sites, no rob. That's not appropriate or is Saif would or something like that. The ciphered platypus something that they can be funny. I want to ask you you kind of in a From US working together and. Working on your podcast and a new invention and putting that together, you've had to work really really hard to make that happen. and I was in or of your ability to kind of the why describe it is you digging and you hold the line and no matter what you did it occur and always like. And the school is really going all in. Real deal I'm watching it in action. While is like easy compared to yours. Have that coal per job on it and have that you've got the corporate job, which is really stressful. The covid stuff what's going on as well which is really stressful, and then you trying to build and launch something like that Oh i wanted to ask you. How on Earth did you do that long? I asked myself that as well. And I mean it came with a toll I. AM feeling pretty burnt out but I think. I was just so excited about the project and I. Every time I found somebody someone to interview. I would get so much value out of that, and even though I was working ridiculous hours. You know I think I told you because I have meetings at. Twenty four hours a day ten to bid nights seven am just constantly and so any time I had a gap I was trying to fit in moving forward with the podcast, and there was points when I wanted to just quit everything and. Go on holiday for like three months and not look technology. We couldn't we could? Is that. Is that the tricky? Is the trick. I, I do have to say the pandemic actually helps me because I also when I was working. Outside the pandemic, I had a three hour commute, everyday an hour, and a half to the office and back so I didn't get that time back. In my life, so that gave me some more space, but I got to the point where I just I told myself just do one little thing a day because I would set these goals, this is the whole thing with goal setting right like I would set these goals I am going to find five people that are living differently and I'm going to reach out to them and I'm going to do that every single day, and I would get to the end of the day and I feel like Shit I'm tired, and unlike starting to research and I'm like fuck it I'm going to bed or I'm GonNa Watch Netflix's like I'm done. And what I realized is I was creating these goals that were really for the amount of time and energy that I had unattainable, and so it's like we'll. Do. You really have to contact five people every night? What if you just did one? Contacted one person because then I'm actually still moving forward. I'm making an reaching out to one person I'm not then I can still binge my Netflix to? Recover from my massive day and I making those little steps where before when I would set these big goals, it was too overwhelming and I would do nothing. And then there would be four or five days. That would go by and hands on anything and I'm feeling like sheds and I'm mad at myself. but just giving myself just one little thing to do every day I feel good because I know I've accomplished something I. Know I'm moving forward and actually making more progress during those tiny steps every day, then trying to create these big massive. For Myself. A lot of that's quite guided. Voss and feedback anybody listening wondering how to fit it all in when you we would have seen in the mosque. Loss created recently I. Put I I Time calculator that coal. My one sixty I`ts, and what does is it highlights to where you're spending your time and your watching this all listening to this just take a little picky your phone and open the link to it in the show notes, and if you're watching Youtube, scroll down, open a link to it as well and the one sixty icon of pilots. How little time you have left over at the end of a busy wake, and if you feel like, you can't fit something extra in. It's probably because you can't possibly because. Because there's no extra time and you need that downtime you need that Anita what's three episodes of something called net flicks. I don't care what he says about time management, plan which off my brain, and a guidance to recharge attest strategies Brian Women to do the same sort of thing as well as important that you have that downtown with your partner, or by yourself or whatever it is, but Gosh, you know one of the things that will have lunch do over. The years is focused on process over outcome. A set my goals. Big Hairy audacious ambitious goals a set him know what they are, but then what do reverse engineer and work out what I need to do every minute of every day to close the got from where I am to wear a wannabe, instead of focusing on that goal is if I look at that goal and go God never going get there. One of the goals I set for myself. just recently at as we come into the halfway point. In the years, the start of July was I wanted to record one hundred interviews. In the next six months, I want it to be interviewed another one hundred times as well and. I went out to my networking a secured like twelve interviews in what one email that I sent jaw I, maybe twenty people and one of my one of my nights to help me out. And I'll got booked on ten podcast in one day. Well. Ten to the why they're. Nine tenths to go and I'm only like two or three days into the goal. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA kill this, it'll be easy. Just focus on that process, and the outcome follows ripe dot. Yeah, and I think to you. You've got to really know why you have that down as goal because I do think a lot of times we put down for ourselves, and if if you get clear about, why is this a goal for me? Why do I want this? Asking those questions is so important, because sometimes you realize that maybe it's not even your goal. It's a goal that somebody else has for you or that. You think that you should have. A majority of that and that's when you don't achieve it, because there's not that really purpose driven y behind it, and if you know why you want it, an, that's when there's days that I thought about quitting and just throwing the podcast out the window, because it was so exhausted, but you always just go back to I. DO I really want this? And what is one action? I can. Can take today to just get myself. reenergize and reconnect with that purpose because it is, it is so easy to get disconnected when when life gets hectic so I. think that's so important as is to check. Is this really the goal that I want for myself? And do I know why I want? It gets a beautiful beautiful sentiment there as well one of the really good things about the. Start with washed off, I love him. What does that? I'm just discovering that women have really liked this guy. He's been around forever. But I'm. Geeky nutty like what not? Really sexy the most goals. Actual. Deeply intellectual Rod love how we talk about the golden thread of why that runs. Everything you do man, that's really help may in the last couple of months believe it or not being like struggling like you creating content with. My masterclass after you finished your podcast and recording twenty-something videos scripting scripting editing, and then reading it out aloud four times, and putting up on the teleprompter, and delivering it recording and editing at every time every videos. Probably I five AL process out process my. Understanding that twenty videos or something like that there and one hundred hours worth work, and then there's a website, and then it's a business and there's all of that stuff. I went into end in three weeks I got it inside of twenty one days, and it was purely based on focusing on the process, not the outcome and the very loss video that are shot. was the sales video because I didn't start with how we're going to sell this. Why would somebody want to do that or new? Why would? I figured by the end of it or no better. How was and It was I- CATHODIC process to be finished, and I'm so glad that out of my head, and is no longer in my in my head, and I feel like I don't have anything in there. Wanting to come out a couple of things that I did shop, but nothing that I want to produce in feels really good to have achieved that goal. Let's lock just such a relief for that to have happened for myself as well and I know when we launched your podcast was like. It was I think. I'm saying this knowing that I am a guilty of it, but one of the things I thought when you're talking about just getting it. Donovan other things that you want to sharpen up is not having to be perfect and I know you know that I wanted to be perfect the whole time, but That's a huge block to thinking that it has to be perfect to now. Now that it's out there. You know I can hear so many things in the recordings, Mike Oh God that needs to be edited I would do that differently and that that's critical talk, but then people listen to it, and they come back and then like oh that was really good. I really enjoyed the episode and it's like Oh. You didn't notice all of the sound mistakes. Mistakes. So I think that's important to being willing to not have it perfect, and just put it out and know that you can make changes and adjust over time and. This got to move forward. Keep moving forward. With what you've got in begin right now. That's the old adage, right? You know you'd have to white. It's like looking for happiness. Like I'll be happy. When on might. Now you want, you can be happy now. Don't worry about the money. And the money will show up top thing you know. That's Tony Robbins Adage. Isn't it yeah? So, tell me about the feedback. You've been receiving from the PODCAST. You just kind of alluded to a little bit of it. has people who said Hey. Wow, I can't believe you did that. Well, that's that's. Yeah, no people have. A lot of the people that I think are listening are acquaintances of mine, so they may be a bit more. Friendly and generous, but people seem to really enjoy it and I think. I think the it's the topics that people are really interested in because I, think most people at the back of their minds like. Is this the way that I should be living my life, but we don't again. Take that time to stock engine reflect and think about what we really want. And is there a different way to do it and so many people have been coming to me. Me and saying Oh. Wow, especially like the podcast. People love the most are the ones around money because I think that's a big topic right now for a lot of people and you know how. How can you do retire early? How can you retire in fifteen years off normal salary? And how can you live a more digital life and and things like that so I think? People are interested in it, and it's just hopefully going to continue to get better as I find more people that are doing things differently, so if you're listening and you live uniquely. Look me up. And that you. Know, you could just look at your phone and all the details to connect with you. Down there if you're watching youtube so and easy to do that. Have you had any body height on you? I'm not yet I. Don't think I'm big enough yet for the haters come out that you know of no one's God. Oh my God, that was so terrible not to my face now, but you know I think one of the beautiful things about eight is when you get into your mid thirties us. Don't give a fuck anymore. where I used to hear a lot, what people and now she's like I don't care if you. As always booting out my across. I developed a process. where? A right the topic on you what I was gonNA write about I would watch some content from a cost that I've done for my coaching quotes that I'd done and go to Youtube and look up that same subject, an odd odd watch at least three or four Ted talks on it, and there was this funny funny one that I kept seeing that I hadn't clicked on, and for the people listening the looked thumbnail in Youtube on the right hand side of the screen is a picture of God, pointing at his temples, and he's on stage, so you can seem on a fighter from the side of him, and he's on stage looking at all these people and he's like. Look on his face of luck aggression, pointing of these temples, and I kept seeing it, but I didn't stop. Eventually stopped and I saw an I'm what and it says how to not take things personally. That's a good one. And what's that like? It's really really good. It's taking things personally is is very. Very, detrimental especially when you put out, things publicly walk podcast or youtube video something like that. Yeah, it's because it is scary exposing yourself to the world, and there's always going to be haters and to me I. Mean I get I think probably more haters at work. With the work that I do. And you just. I think one of the things also from Yoga. They've learned that really helps us when. Whenever somebody's attacking me in a verbal or written way just realizing that whatever's going on in their world is is. Their problem really has nothing to do with you. So. That's helped me a lot to just disconnect and not. Personalize it as much not to say that I don't get my feelings hurt sometimes I do. I'm as well I haven't had a lot of height as I've had a few people say oh, that could be better. And Yeah. It's so much constructive criticism like. Maybe which part exactly yeah, you're definitely definitely could be better, but I haven't. I've never had a couple of years of doing this now. I've never had anybody got terrible your sheet. What Nydia I've had a few people say that the guests. If they a little bit finest God I want that guy or Idiot or not hiding Omai, the decide that they don't like the guest or anything like that, and it's very tempting in Youtube to. Press, that like hot comment, button or delayed or block, but I don't. I. Don't I don't do that. Oh I, I I'm not the sensor of the world. I'm not the sensor of somebody's opinion, just because I disagree with their opinion, something just let that. Go. Have you got a plan in place? If somebody's hiding on you, I'm not GonNa read it. flew by. In, the heights twitter things that I do on those. Shows. Molly SARS gets up and reasonable the hateful tweets that she gets a lot that it's like yeah. Yeah. I don't think. I don't think that I would really necessarily engage unless they did have a points because I am always willing to learn and get feedback that I have no problem with. Know criticism or negative feedback. If there's something to be learned from it, but if it's just somebody being mean, I just ignore it. Took it personally. I'm gonNA find that thumbnail. Put it in the show. What's what's his PODCAST GONNA turn into you into four. You'RE GONNA. Have some subscriptions to get some exclusive behind the scenes content. What's that look? Yeah, so now there's exclusive contents extended versions of the episodes and some resources that people can access, and that's really to support the podcast so that we can continue to produce it and the more subscribers that we get the higher level of production. We can do so if you if you really like it subscribe, help us continue to do it, but more long term I think my passion really comes from helping people live live from their values, and so eventually I would like to start teaching engaging with more people on that topic and I think that's my gas provides so much value as well. It's not that I'm saying that what my guests are doing are the way to live at all It's just that there are lots of ways to live at and being open about the possibilities and discovering possibilities exists, hopefully will help other people to become more open about what it is. They want so long term. Goal is really to help support people through that purpose in that journey, and and hopefully get people to start thinking more openly about what what kind of life do I want? How can I make that happen? And I would really encourage the listeners and viewers to to check it out some of the. Topics one of the topics that kind of get you hooked in Nastro to why is had have your friend? Sean has a open marriage. Yeah, so it's and I think marriage is such a funny topic too I mean I I cover off on all the major life topics, so you know finances, career relationships life style even. To the point where I'm getting more into sustainability as well like looking at our consumption of animals, I do eat meat, so no judgment but really. Didn't want to Adolf listening to that episode ever again. I've actually almost completely cut it out I really just eat it now if I'm going to someone's house and they're serving it but So I am I'm not a hater on it. It's just really taking a close look at the way that we live in society and asking. Is this really the best way to live? That's GONNA cause the least amount of harm, not only to ourselves, but to the world in general, and some of the exciting things have coming up touch on those areas as well if somebody wants to can leave a lighter footprint on the earth how you can do that, so explorer I explore everything, but yes, the open marriages There's a couple topics on that. And I I love the topic of relationships in marriage, because everybody has such a strong opinion about it, and if you think about marriage today. It's actually pretty new the our definition of marriage. This idea that you find somebody that you love and you have children and you stay in a marriage the rest of your life and it's just the two of you. That's a new. That's a new thing in the scheme of things as far as the history of marriage marriage, USA very much a contractual obligation for peace treaties require more lands to bring families together, and it was very much a no no to marry for love until probably the nineteenth century. Because when people are in love, they make stupid decisions. I'm so you know you get married for financial gain for whatever you know, other reasons and So. I think a high learn so much from those episodes to just the importance of. There are such strong opinions about marriage and there's very strict kind of rules as a society that we put in place around how we think people should behave new relationship and and I I like to stay if if those rules make sense for you, that's amazing. Keep living that way no judgement whatsoever, but if you're finding that, those rules don't really work you. WHY NOT CHANGE 'EM? You know why not have a second partner? If that's what's GonNa, make you and your. Your partner happy or you know why not live separately? Maybe you don't WanNa live together, and you could live in two separate houses and they'll. It's not saying that anything is right or wrong. Saying you gotta find what works for you and the people that you're involved with and create your own rules and stop caring. What other people think. Yeah? That was a real eye opener for me in that episode because she covered phone on a bunch of different things in that's I It's a juicy juicy topic as well and yes, there is plenty of discussion about sex in there as well and you have to get into the extended episodes to get. Open Open marriages that sex. That's an extended version. GotTa. Pay Five dollars for that. You're talking to the. I Christa as we close out the PODCAST, he would bumping up against an Ala.. If I met you I'd eight months ago and we tried to do this year and a bit ago. Launching your podcast, would we have done? How would things have been different for he now eighteen months ago, I was in a different role. Actually worked four days a week loved it. It was amazing. So I would have had the time. Here's the thing back then I would have had the time to really get. Don probably a lot quicker. But I probably wouldn't have had the drive in the urgency. So that's the that's the thing was time, isn't it? it's the drive in the urgency. That's really gonNA. Make you successful we all. We always think it's about time, but it's really about what you make a priority, and if you're comfortable, which I was very comfortable in my last role. There's not really a whole lot of fire underneath you to make changes, and so I think. Even though I have really struggled and I'm working crazy hours. The fire was there to keep me going So. It when it needed to happen Nas one, and what's on the horizon as off the inverse of that question, what's on the horizon for the next eighteen months for you? For me, it's. Like I said I've learned so much from my gas at it. Really everything that I've learned his completely changed my life. I I went to. I. Don't know if you're familiar with Joseph McLennan the third. He is kind of Tony Robbins right hand, man but he's just. He's a phenomenal public speaker and he's. He has a really interesting story, but one of the things that he said that really stuck with me is he would read all of these books, and he said you know what the difference between me and other people who aren't successful is it's that actually implemented what they told me to do in the book books. And I that stuck with me because you can learn all this racial stuff, but unless you actually go out and you do it. Your Life's not GonNa Change. You can have all the knowledge up here, but you actually have to action it and so for me. Some of the things that I've learned I very much want to implement my life and I've already started doing that, and so it's. It's I'm excited to see how my life will change. Based off of the things I'm learning from my guest and I hope that the podcast will continue to grow in inspire people, but if nothing else, just knowing that my life is moving in this new positive direction, and the possibilities that I never thought of before are becoming open to me, it's it's such a gift and I'm so grateful. That I've gone down this journey from a very selfish standpoint as well so I hope others also get value from it. Yes, fantastic beautifully said, and and congratulations on ince of that movie shoe old all the best and know that it's going to be successful. You know somebody locked you driving that with the passion that you have not they successful Crestar. Let you leave the Golan podcast without putting you in the golden on cost is hot seat. Couple of random questions have a little bit of fun as we close out the show He. Ready I'm ready I'm dying to go traveling this covert. Allowing me killing me playing and go somewhere Marshall. That's a very good idea, but. What's what's your favorite holiday destination that you've ever been to? Probably Japan. I love Japan. We went a couple years ago and I had a goal in mind. That I was GONNA. Go back every single year and spend weeks and weeks there and I even took Japanese lessons. I was so terrible that I quit halfway through. So that's a very go all in story, but it was humiliating I would go to class, and they would have you speak out loud. Nobody could understand me. I just I don't have ear for language, but I I just I love. I love the food the culture. It's just Japan is gorgeous. Diverse in its landscapes and yeah, I would love to live there someday. Have you seen the cherry blossoms, so we went St- during the Cherry blossom season, but it was you know the season's never perfect, and we went kind of at the tail end. We missed it. We saw a few. Pots. No, not yet. I've heard the skiing is amazing. Yeah. Yeah Yeah last, one excellent excellent. What's a skill that you've not yet mastered? Language as I. Good. Get for me I can say hello in about ten different languages. Yeah, it's a start. Thank you as well going to. I love, Alaba. What's the best place of business advice that you've ever saved? I would have to say that Sir and I know. This is something that other people have probably heard, but we often overestimate what we can achieve in the short term and on our estimate, what can be done in the long term. And I think that goes back to the way I was talking about setting goals earlier. I would set these massive goals and try and get all done in a short time frame than hate myself because I didn't do it where if you just make those tiny steps forward every single day, it may not seem like a lot of progress in the short term, but if you give it enough time, you'll look back and be like. Wow, I can't believe I accomplish all of that and. If you can live your life that way every area I. Think you're GonNa make some huge moves. Outs Yeah Yeah Beautiful. It was excellent well before I. Let you go if people want to connect with you. What's the best way to do that? Well, they can reach me on. My social media. They visit the new convention on either facebook or instagram or email me at the new convention at Krista FM so that's like a radio station. FM DOT COM actually my name Frazier Mark Court. So those are the best ways to contact me awesome to Izzy and if you're listening to this podcast, little picky your phone and all the links to Krista socials in our email. Obey right there. Any website is well and make sure you check out that podcast. If you what you need, you scroll on down and his right there in the show notes for you as well. Thank you so much for coming on the in podcast? Sharing your story? That was an important one and congratulations on getting your show. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. I have done it without you I really. Enjoy We couple of times but. I needed hits. Need that yet. I'm GonNa give you the the opportunity to have the potty shot what he got i. what's the? What's The fun word? Final word of wisdom. I would say right your goals down every single day. Do that and your ninety percent likely to achieve them I've done it as ing. Get clear about what you want. Write it down every day and you'll be amazed. You can achieve a ninety days. Beautifully, said beautifully said well KRISTA. Thanks again for coming on the PODCAST. We look forward to speaking with you soon. It's now. I thank you. Well, they have it folks. If you WANNA connect with Krista, just take a little peek at your phone. And all of the links to her website and Socia right back and make sure you pop on over to Ginger spotify, and he that subscribe will fuller button and Taika a little picket her podcast as well. If you're watching this on Youtube, this called down and all the details right there in the show notes as usual. Off you've got a message. Awesome feedback for the show. You could reach out by the goal in socials, or you can send me an email anytime. Just visit goal in dot com to find out more well. That wraps it up for the show today, so whatever it is working on whatever you're doing, get busy. Get to it and go all in I'll see you next on. Four. In trouble. into the. Break. ooh! Your. Brain The. Head. General. Matt. Allen. With. A. Best I can't I. Stop Myself.

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