20 Episode results for "Lonnie Johnson"

The Greatest Squirt Gun Ever Built

Endless Thread

29:00 min | 2 years ago

The Greatest Squirt Gun Ever Built

"Endless thread is supported by packet and with Savi to companies working to deliver a new model for cloud computing together. They're integrated solution combines the power of dedicated bare metal servers that's packet with low cost. High-speed cloud storage was Sabi the result improved performance and lower costs. But also new model to look at as companies race to the cloud. That's packet dot com and was sobbing dot com. Produced by the island at WBZ. You are Boston. Peter piper picked a pip. This is inventor Lonnie Johnson. Peter piper picked peppers that works for me. If you if Lonnie Johnson is a super chill, dude so chill. Wake up Lonnie. The episode is starting Wani's chill. But he's also responsible for a lot of mayhem the really started. When he was a kid obsessed with rocket fuel true or false. You almost burn down your house trying to make rocket fuel. Yeah. That's true. How old are you? Jeez. We'll say must have been around twelve years old. See something similar happened to me. But I was in college. I was deep prime pirogies. So same was trying to make a month. Clearly, there is a difference in here. We'll try to keep up that get you in trouble or what? Well, yeah. We'll no, yes. And no 'cause my parents, obviously were not happy. And that was really fearful of what would happen when my dad came home. But when he got there, and he looked and. If it will you're gonna have to start mixing that outside from now on any bought me a hot plate, and and that was about it. Lonnie's dad, also chill and thank goodness. You know, sometimes thinking, my parents weren't as tolerant as I could would have turned out very different because there were lots of reasons for me to be in really, really big trouble. But somehow they saw Mike reality as an asset and. Figured out that I could serve me. Well, one day. And fortunately, they were right. Well, so far. We said that Lonnie Johnson was responsible for a lot of mayhem. But he also made millions of dollars off of one idea. Just pop up our one. One kind of toy and you can soak someone up to fifty feet away into the stratosphere. Today's episode the greatest squirt gun ever built. I'm Ben Brock Johnson. And you're listening to endless thread the show featuring stories found in the vast ecosystem of online communities called rennet one does not simply walk into our show that saying how it is made. I'm here with my co host damn receiver. Tin, and we are coming to you from Boston's NPR station. WB you are. Okay. I gotta be honest saying squirt gun instead of water gun. Just isn't me. Like, I grew up on hundred percent saying water gun. The word squirt is just gross. And it sounds belittling. That's the kind of thing. A little squirt would say whatever I'm squirt your scam. I was definitely what moms and dads of my friends might have called a hell, Ian. But my troublemaking would have been a lot less effective if I hadn't been wielding device that Lonnie Johnson, invented the super soaker squirt gun water gun if I had a squirt gun right now, you would be so. But you don't. So I'm not the super soaker arrived at the perfect moment for me nineteen ninety one. I was eleven years old and my family loved water fights, I loved them to but my friends, and I just used good old fashioned water balloons, keeping a classic point is everybody knows super hookers, or at least at a particular time new super Sobers fewer people know, how this invention came into the world and the story the man who invented a man who is still invented. So back to chill money who just wasn't your average kid like your average kid gets toys and then plays with them Lonnie on the other hand. Gotten a bicycle for Christmas and decided that I wanted to have a win meal. So actually took the chain crank everything instead it up, and I actually got some blades from a window shade. And actually put them all around in an array at made a win hill and ahead my bicycle this turn the crank. I got a big kick out of that thing. Lonnie was always doing this taking toys apart putting them back together. My toys is will must siblings toys. They must have been big fans of that. Sometimes I'll get them back together. Thank together. But I was always curious about what was in. And how they worked. Around the time Lonnie was mixing his own rocket fuel indoors that curiosity was getting an additional boost from something he had seen president John F. Kennedy say on TV in September of nineteen sixty two. We choose to go to the moon, and and do the other thing not because they are easy. But because they they caused that goal. Well, served to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills because that challenge is it wasn't just the goal itself that struck on. It was the confidence JFK had an achieving it despite the lack of a road map to do. So we didn't know how to do it yet. We didn't have a tools that needed that they're going to be invented developed. This new materials the building fist that was a pretty. I'm vicious statement made to the world to do something that was very hard and had not been done before. And that actually happened. It's something Lonnie laughs about now. But at the time, it was dead serious. And it was dangerous also dangerous for people like Lonnie, the blowback to the civil rights movement as a black kid growing up in mobile, Alabama in the nineteen fifties and sixties Lonnie saw and felt segregation firsthand. Money Johnson went to an all black high school, and he excelled kids in the neighborhood called him. The professor he placed in a statewide math competition two years in a row, and then his senior year he represented his school in science fair. We only flex. Represented in. This was in sixty eight in the year that K Martin Luther King was assassinated. And you're. Proba Kennedy succession needed. So it was very very. Very trying time in the country. I can remember how depressing it was around the school at that time and actually the principal called an assembly. We all got into the auditory of. It was just a tough time. The regional science fair was held at the university of Alabama and just five years before that the governor of Alabama had blocked an entrance to the university to protest the enrollment of two black students, but Lonnie felt confident in his creation project was a robot. Three and a half feet tall appro pain tank for torso movable arms made out of scrap metal wheels for feet and a real to reel tape recorder, brain control via walkie, talkie remote. He was my alter ego kinda head still cute. So I have this by immagination going so called it a named Atlantic's at the me. But it won't have kind of electronic take name. So instead of Lonnie linex L, I N E X, which inspired Lonnie Johnson's username on read it. Yes, he's a register. He goes by. I n e x back then linex was the name of his entry into a science fair. He was barely invited to which we wondered about or you asking you feel unwelcome. Yes. Absolutely. It was hosted by the school of engineering. And I think in the whole time near the theme didn't really say anything to us. Until we will leaving when he said fine drive safely. Wow. How'd you do? I want first place after that doing things that are very hard despite challenges sort of became lonnie's MO. It led him first to the air force weapons laboratory where he helped develop this stealth bomber program then to the Jet Propulsion Laboratory at NASA where he got his rocket scientist cred or I it was only the Galileo project. So that was the power systems engineer for Galileo gala lamb as in the space craft sent to Jupiter launched in nineteen Eighty-nine didn't arrive till nineteen ninety five. What I think about that. It's like, okay. I was working on this robot in has. But now, I'm working on robots that are going to of the planets, and that was kind of cool. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's kinda cool. And that was just the day job when he clocked out Lonnie would go home and lean even further into doing things that were very hard. And that had never been done before also known as inventing experimenting with this. He pumped that was trying to design a heat pump that we use water so working fluid instead of freon because free is bad for the environment. It was destroying the ozone layer. It was a big deal. Everyone was talking about it. So I decided what could be more environmentally friendly than waters working fluid. Machine. Some nozzles was with these nozzles in my bathroom and shut the stream of water across the bathroom into the tub. And the stream of water was so powerful that the curtains on the windows swing and that talked about shelf. She's would really be nice to have power water gun. It felt really really good holding. Stream in my hand. So I decided that point that I was going to be able to have performance water. Do you? Remember how you felt when you shot that I stream of water? Just so pleased with yourself. It was pretty impressive. Lonnie knew he was onto something though. He wasn't sure what or why just yet more on what why in a minute. Endless thread is sponsored by packet. And what's Sabi when it comes to cloud services? Most people turned big names like Amazon, Microsoft and Google, but a new partnership between packet and Sabi offers a powerful and compelling alternative that focuses on your three most critical components compute network and storage packing. Him Sabi are better together to companies responding to developers increasingly intensive data needs with next generation solutions that are better faster and cheaper. That's packet that calm, and what's Sabi dot com. So Lonnie had this idea maybe for a water gun. He started making a prototype out of PVC pipe plexiglas and an empty soda bottle. The only person told that I was going to make the water gun was my daughter twelve maker this really really super. And she was best dad. But it wasn't until I really got it finished and literally took few weeks and got a penalty assembled in pumped it up for the first time that actually so it work at it was turned out very impressive and daughter play with and the kids couldn't get close tour. It would be another eight years before lonnie's water gun was available in stores. I as the power drenched. Then you're later as the super soaker, whatever it was called it never had gun in its name. And it was always painted bright colors and effort to distance the product from real guns. It was made by a company called Laremy which was later bought by toy giant Hasbro twenty million of them sold that first summer and just to give you sense Hatchimal Immel's one of the most popular toys of recent years sold two million units in two thousand sixteen. So the super soaker was a massive hit even for the nineteen ninety s when toy retail was booming. It's. Popularity was nuts which meant that very quickly. The toy went from just the classic super soaker fifty to a whole suite of products. On those occasions when you needed makeup to play super soaker one hundred when a toy gun gets this popular, it can get folded into the larger gun violence debate a super soaker fight in Boston in nineteen Ninety-two escalated into real gunfire leaving two dead. Boston's mayor at the time even asked merchants in the city to remove super soaker from shelves, of course, that didn't stick. You. Don't have to look hard for evidence of the super soaker impact. The nostalgia around super soaker Zahn read it is strong. And because Lonnie himself is redder people can actually share their appreciation with him people like Reddit user, Z Suth, who writes, I had a less than pleasant upbringing. I was always grateful that when it was hot out my siblings, and I could get out of the house for a few hours and run around the neighborhood with our super soccer's. And then there's or VIP remedy who writes, you have single handedly filled many summer days with hours of entertainment. You were doing all this work that was like deadly serious. But you you saw the potential for this thing to be at toy. What was interesting about that, you know, that wasn't my first invention. In fact, it wasn't actually had patents by then. And we should talk about one of those patents. His very first patent. In fact. Refer to it. As thick fish got away the label of the title was digital distance measuring instrument, but it basically is a device that news it should make by using photolithography to optically, reduce a binary scale down to the point where you can't really feel with translation needed most deaf translation needed. Okay. Here's what you need to know about the patent for lonnie's digital distance measuring instrument. That's the base technology for DVD's, and CDs I received that in nineteen seventy. How did it get away? I was preoccupied with Kallio. And being an engineer and working at a pan terrorists. Thanks. That's fair. We needed you for that. You win. Some you lose some money, and you don't always get to choose which invention sees the light of day somewhat frustrated because you know, I've been talking to investors and trying to get people interested in funding ideas, and I wasn't having ineffective that and so two. Thought to myself if I stopped the heart sign stuff the heat pumps, and all these things that really complicated work on something really simple that anybody could look at appreciate I could get enough money from that often or calling heart science stuff and in reality. It's worked out pretty good. Well, actually, better than I expected thought I'd be able to support myself in my family and continue to work, but it literally did change my life. The super soaker has generated more than a billion dollars in sales which makes for a good chunk of change in royalties and Lonnie made even more in royalties from a line of Nerf guns that use the same air, compression technology as the super soaker. This is a point we have to underline not only was Lonnie responsible for the outdoor phenomenon known as super soaker squirt guns. Water gone also helped to build the fundamental technology behind some of the end strike Nerf guns Nerf as in the Tway weapons that fire all manner of foam ammunition, at all manner of friendly enemies. I mean, basically Lonnie I think I need to thank you for most of my childhood fun. This is only infamous the most technically advance plaster. All of this has allowed Lonnie to get back to the hard science as he calls. It. No have a company of about twenty five people working on staff, including PHD, liberal fantasist who are working with me to develop the next generation of edited technology both in power generation as well as energy storage Lonnie startup Johnson, research and development is based in Atlanta, Georgia where Lonnie lives and where he raised his four kids. It's a lab, really. And one of the things they've made is something Lonnie calls. The great great grandson of that heat pump. He was originally trying to make when the super soaker idea came about. It's called the Johnson thermoelectric energy converter or the J tech. It's an engine that converts heat into electricity that one actually pretty pretty excited about. He has good reason to be excited because this technology could be used to power spacecraft's at five times the efficiency he says he just signed a contract with NASA to work on it and back here on earth. We could someday charge our cell phones with our body heat or convert industrial waste heat into energy. If you own. If you own Pete from industry booted into fifty I mean, we wouldn't need oil. So the whole idea is to focus is to try make meaningful contributions to our effort to transition away from also fuel so that we can stop destroying them. In energy system without fossil fuels means a future reliant on renewable energy resources, which means will meet a much better system for storing that energy, which brings us to the next big thing is working on advanced battery technology, specifically the solid state battery which could potentially store ten times the energy as the lithium ion batteries that are currently being used in everything from electric cars to smartphones. Lonnie spent the last twenty years working on this. You're talking about all of these developments that you've made in the energy industry that could literally change the world. And yet you're probably still best known as the inventor of the super soaker. Was that frustrating sometimes? But also, you know, it's a nice ice breaker and learning that it actually gets me in the doors and gets me into conversations that otherwise people would be less open tonight. We start with the super soaker and slip them the J tech. Yeah. Then we transition something else. That's been frustrating for Lonnie are the times that he hasn't been able to get a foot in the door. You're person of color field. That has traditionally not had a lot of people of color in it and also been pretty unwelcome on to people of color. How do you think about that at this stage in your life? Well, you know, swimming, upstream is hoping that I. This is what I do. And sometimes when I get no. Do maybe for one second. So sometimes wondering if it's really a legitimate. No oil, if there's something else going on way of when you go in and kill people developing battering that could be ten times the energy of conventional if you mind batteries, that's a pretty pretty hard thing to accept its being possible coming from anybody. It's hard enough. Just being an inventor being told you're wrong foolhardy crazy because you're trying to make something that is never been made before. And you're asking people to not just believe in your ideas, but to funded them, and when you spell it out like that becoming an engineer or an inventor, it's a hard sell. So Lonnie started a nonprofit last year, the Johnson stem activity center, it provides funding for science technology, engineering and math education and robotics activities for under served students in Georgia the way, I like to describe the importance of this is that you know, if it were not finished we all be living in caves. I think kids need to understand, particularly when when a lot of kids. Convinced that the only way out is through. Sports and entertainment or of of pets to success. Although the super soaker is to me and Leslie entertaining. Okay. Ben. I think we should share one more comment that someone wrote to Lonnie on read it when I was maybe eight years old. I took my school backpack and one of those five gallon water jugs rummage through my dad's tools and piped up a five gallon backpack. Water to my super soaker. I ruled the water fights for two summers. My dad was a little pissed that I was rummaging Thurs tools. But after that, we had something the bond over creating. I just wanna thank you for giving me a place to start on creative engineering. That is my first memory of thinking outside the box. And I still look back on it when I'm trying to make something work better. This comment hits me right in the feels. Maybe it's a little hallmark card. But it's good. Yeah. You never know what will lead someone to engineering sometimes it's a water fight San away. Lonnie Johnson is kinda come full circle. He invented something that made it possible for him to invent a whole lot of other things. And now the people he's inspired are inventing their own things. Pretty cool. You're almost seventy years old. Don't remind me of that. Got a lot to do. Yeah. You don't sound. Like, you're the least bit ready to retire. You sound like you are paving, a new frontier is that how you feel? Yes. I mean. It's why get up in the morning motivated. I wanna have an impact I think there are problems that I think I have the ability to solve. I want to tackle them. You know, once said this, there's no greater boot. And then an opportunity. I don't think I'll ever be without an idea. And I think that it would be irresponsible and even sinful to waste of. Dr Lonnie Johnson. Thanks a lot for talking with us. My pleasure thinkin. Endless threat is a production of WB. You are Boston's NPR station in partnership with red it our shows a dream realized by just Alpert, and when she found out we were talking to the guy who invented the super soaker. She said. Iris had there is our executive producer. And hearing Lonnie Johnson story inspired her to get motivated mix and sound is I'm by Paul vicous in John Perotti who thought the moon landing was mildly. Awesome. Our web producers Megan Kelly and she wants to trademark wholesome memes. Michael pope is our advisor read it who almost burned down his house when he tried inventing Chantiers, even though you don't always hear his voice, it's important to point out that our fellow producer. Josh schwartz. Can also say that endless thread is something. I made extra production assistance from James Lindberg, our interns Candice limb, our theme music is by squatter unready. We are endless underscore thread. If you want to contribute art for an upcoming episode or give us a juicy story tip. So we can tell it like we did today. It is up there. Also, when you go there, you should follow our profile on read it. So we can be in touch my co host and producers Ameri Iverson. I am senior producer and host. Ben Brock Johnson. Let myself out. So our our intrepid production assistant, James Lindberg went onto read and posted a question about what the best Nerf guns for hanging out and playing around in your college dorm room where? And he got so many amazing answers, very detailed answers. So you're you're gonna do dramatic nerdy. Reading of some of these answers. I mean, I would recommend to elva troopers three strifes to disruptors three hammer shots single rhino fire. And most importantly, lots and lots of darts. You don't seem to be serious about a Nerf war. So get basic Khushi darts from EBay five hundred thousand should do the trick for a long time said and you back thirty to sixty dollars on their own but much better than normal elite Dart's in every way, also on EBay there. Eighteen round aftermarket stick megs for four to five. Good. Oh, good. Keep going up doing well stick MAGS for four to five dollars each which aren't hugely reliable. But they're cheap and should cut it this this won't be nowhere as good as yours. But I'll give you a bro voice. You wanna bro? Yeah. Yeah. Heck just pick up. A pile zero extra reflect six plasters cheap decent performance compatible with all long darts, nicer goes and great for modding. If you like, no, slam fire single-handed priming. But hey, they are solid. Where's the bro voice that just ended like you? Great. With a Nerf gun.

Lonnie Lonnie startup Johnson Boston Lonnie Johnson Lonnie linex L Ben Brock Johnson engineer Alabama Peter piper NASA cloud WBZ Wani Savi school of engineering Martin Luther King
The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

Conspiracy Theories

40:10 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

"Forty two year old jenny solder watched as the flames licked against singe flesh burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully set by none other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used every cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or doing something even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us before this episode some news for all the believers out there about the return of special otherworldly visitor the mid rib is back with its juicy pork smothered and tangy barbecue sauce. The delicious sandwich with the reputation that precedes it. Because there's no other sandwich like it. And that's what makes it the most important sandwich of the year available for a limited time at participating. Mcdonald's after a devastating fire on christmas eve nineteen forty five. The solder family desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they lost their house and their five children. Jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because jennie george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the latter that had gone missing on the night of the fire. They could have used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs. If they'd been able to locate it later someone found a ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in a ditch. The solders never learned why it was moved or who had done it without the ladder. George and his sons tried to use their to coal trucks to climb into the house and rescue the trap children but lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all a witness claimed that he saw a man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of hooks and ropes. That can be used to remove an engine from a car. The thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as it turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night. Lonnie also admitted to cutting the solders phone line. Just thirty minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jennie. George to believe that someone may be lonnie had intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft. If he was capable of that are didn't seem like too far leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonnie confessed that he wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he'd lit the flames. The sutter's couldn't even prove the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in and they seemingly confirmed and jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past the solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed someone had intentionally set the sod house of flame perhaps using a molotov cocktail or another explosive. If true this meant that their children died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they return to the site turned memorial a few months later it was a somber moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why her older siblings had disappeared. Blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly. not a toy. It was an olive green hard cylindrical rubber object. After examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof and it was consistent with the loud thump and rolling sounded woke up in the middle of the night in short lonnie johnson's suspicious behavior. The napalm bomb and the lack of human remains made the solders. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five children. Jenny conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters had turned to ash all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere but with the stakes so high she couldn't only rely on her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther to confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce a human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned body is a two thousand degrees for two hours bone still remained since the blaze that had destroyed the sutter home had only burned for forty five minutes at the most. It was virtually impossible that it had reached the extreme heat of a closed crematorium so it seemed highly unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested on the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze had destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The otherwise tragic news was music to jen's ears. She took it as even more proof that our children couldn't have been in their house when it burned to the ground. By this point her husband. George was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up. Information pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. The truth is out there and now you can see it for yourself and even document the evidence the mcgrigor as returned the saucy tender and incredibly delicious sandwich with a taste. That is out of this world. The sandwich that influences culture and has a cult following the one that inspires means fan art and music with its season. Boneless pork smothered tangy. Barbecue sauce topped with crunchy onions in tarp. Pickles and for those. That have never tried the mcrib. You can become a believer. it's back nationwide. and there's nothing quite liken. The experience will change your life forever because let's face it. It's called the most important sandwich of the year for a reason available for a limited time at participating. Mcdonald's this episode is brought to you by the twenty twenty one toyota venza say or toyota venza driver. And you're passionate about technology. The venza is to sign with everything. You need when you need it most surround yourself with the latest tech including an available twelve point three inch touchscreen so you can easily access all of your apps maps and music speaking of music. The toyota venza also comes with an available nine speaker. Jbl audio system complete with a sub woofer amplifier usb and auxiliary ports plus bluetooth connectivity with standard all wheel drive a hybrid powertrain and an available head up display. You can gear up in style. Introducing the toyota venza learn more at toyota dot com slash venza toyota. Let's go places now back to the story. Officially a nine hundred and forty five christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents george and jenny refused to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned no to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed to have seen all five of the missing solder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out the window of a car on the night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders that if she really did see the children that night it raised all sorts of questions for jenny and george namely who ducted them in. Where did they take them before. They could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked at a tourist. Stop between fayetteville where. The solder house was located and charleston. A city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed to have seen the missing solder children with her own is the morning after the fire. Not only had. She spotted them and serve them breakfast. Sadly she didn't have any information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled in had a florida license plate and soon the sada's heard from a different woman. One who worked at a charleston hotel. She'd helped check in a strange party about a week. After christmas eve. It was past midnight and the group consisted of four italian speaking adults. Two men and two women and four children when the clerk tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile and began conversing amongst themselves in italian. whatever they were saying it seemed. They didn't want to be overheard. They refuse to speak with her anymore. And the next morning they made sure to check out early. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day. She opened the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a lot to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happened the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to georgia's mysterious past in italy. If only we knew what they had said in italian sadly and for unknown reasons nothing came of this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months. Several witnesses pointed south toward florida As it turned out. Jenny solders brother. Frank cheaper yanni lived in the sunshine state and for a time. She entertained the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why janie thought this. Maybe she was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Hunch miami police combed through birth records to prove that all of the children living with cioni or actually his the records were in order and that path turned out to be another dead end. But that wasn't the end of the mystery before too long. George and jenny uncovered another lead. Which once again suggested their sons and daughters were in florida. A missionary in the small coastal village of cortes recognize the solder kids from a picture he saw in the paper. He claimed that he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately georgian. Jenny dispatched a private detective to investigate but by the time he arrived the children were gone. Allegedly the detective confirmed that the children the missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true it suggested that there was some kind of dark cover up going on someone had made the solder children disappear. Before the pe- i could find them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years. Several more tips from people claiming they'd seen the solder children came through and george solder followed up on every single one. He traveled the country but each time hopes were dashed and george never got any closer to finding his missing children. Still the family wasn't ready to give up the search so in nineteen forty seven almost two years after the fire they appealed to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them a response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover road although i would like to service the matter related appears to be of local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau. All however the fbi didn't completely leave the solder family out in the cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities. One might think the fayetteville police and fire departments would appreciate the help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting in the way with local fayetteville authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the sutter's didn't get help from the fbi but even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in one thousand nine hundred forty seven jennie. George hired a private investigator named cc. Tinsley teens lee dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fayetteville. Citizen will refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter. The salesman was a cosigner on the solders home insurance policy but when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened that the house would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months later. The house burned to the ground just as he said it would. All that certainly makes. Peter look suspicious however the fayetteville police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him seems the local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was too prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which had ruled that the sutter fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself a payout if the fire wasn't accidental than it seemed downright nefarious that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinsley couldn't find any indication that peter had set the fire himself but he had another lead in lonnie johnson. The man who had robbed the slaughterhouse and cut their phone line allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said that he was quote getting tired of taking the rap for those people at fayetteville. That wasn't much to go off of. But the statement suggested that lonnie was in league with some quote people at fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person had fayetteville was peter who else to gain as much as he did. The problem. this alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley couldn't find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they'd set the fire or kidnap the missing children so the detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire. Chief fj morris and under pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claimed that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the solder family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claimed that he buried the heart in a dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say the least george jenny solder wouldn't be satisfied and till they could dig up this heart in see it for themselves but i cece tinsley arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site once they arrived. The chief pointed out where he buried the box they dug until they found it. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like took any turn ity to uncover and when tinsley finally opened it up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley couldn't tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the oregon inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. It was a fake and not even a very convincing one. The liver didn't have a trace of burn marks on it. Rumor has it that chief. Morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden the beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put an end to the investigation once and for all he thought that if the solder family found proof that the children had perished in the fire finally be able to move on. But if that was chief morris's goal it only showed how much he'd underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any lengths to discover what had happened to their children after the beef liver debacle that continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty seven. George was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart skip a beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. He'd know her anywhere as he stared at the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young daughter. He made it all the way to manhattan and tracked down the child's school but when he arrived they didn't let him see the little girl. Perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george solder was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dead end. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jennie george still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august nineteen forty-nine. The solders hired a pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. B hunter to go over the site with a fine tooth comb. Hunters first step was to excavate the lot which had since been covered over once the pathologist had dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one of their children met a fiery death. This episode is brought to you by casper your most life changing sleep is about what's underneath. This is a casper mattress inside precisely one thousand five hundred and one perforations create a cooling system so effective. You won't be awake to notice. Only cast mattresses are made with eighty six supportive gel pods to align your spine and eliminate aches and pains. It's the cooling supportive comfort. You need for the most refreshed feeling every morning. Only on a casper mattress only at casper dot com. This episode is brought to you by normal now. A campaign raising awareness about electric vehicles. Here's a fun fact in the early two thousands. Podcasts were called audio blogs at first people thought they seem strange would never catch on but now people listen to them. All over the world just like podcasts. Electric cars are normal now. They can handle long distances. So you can drive just about anywhere you wanna go. Plus they charge faster than ever and there are lots more charging stations around that you might think not only are they. Normal they even come with a few perks. Potentially saving money. There are lots of affordable models and they tend to need less routine maintenance so normal is looking even better electric cars. They're normal now. Learn more at normal now dot com now back to the story for years. The solder families searched for evidence of what had happened to their five missing children. And then finally. In august nineteen forty-nine they found a somber clue human remains specifically pathologist oscar. Hunter found the shards of four vertebrae all from the same body. And this time. The bones were undeniably from a person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle. Except there was something suspicious about the backbones. They didn't have any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see on a burn victim the state it unlikely that the vertebrae belong to any of the solder children to make sure doctor sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington d. c. for further analysis. The report that came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen. Likely too young for the backbones to be his. The report did allow that in rare cases. A fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologists hypothesized that they must have been present in the dirt that george had added to the site to create the memorial. That beg the question of where exactly george got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston. West virginia extensively. These were to determine whether anything had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintain that. They've done everything they could for the solders. Furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence is the reason they were unwilling to devote anymore resources to the probe. This seem pretty. Incredible given the startling number of tips twists and witnesses who had come forward since the fire perhaps the authorities were just eager to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mysteries solved. Whatever the reason in one thousand nine hundred fifty. The state of west virginia closed the inquiry for good. Both the governor and the state police superintendent told the solders in no uncertain terms that their case was quote hopeless seemed like the saudis had exhausted all possible avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities. Were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the solder made one last ditch attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts. They decided to crowd source their investigation. This was the nineteen fifties so they couldn't exactly post the details of the case online but they did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties. Jennie george. Solder paid to have a billboard erected along route sixteen near fan ville at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped murdered or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from oldest to youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. The solders laid out their belief that the fire was started intentionally and the children survived the blaze. The billboard also suggested that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jenny and george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information when that produced no results. They doubled it to ten thousand dollars. As far as the solders were concerned. No price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went up potential clues trickled in for example the solders received a letter from a woman in missouri. She claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint louis then at patron at a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation. They overheard regarding christmasy fire in west virginia. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break in nineteen sixty seven. A woman from houston reached out to report that she overheard a drunken young man. Claiming to be louis solder. Who would then be thirty one years old. By this time. George was in his early seventies and in failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children. So with the help of his son in law he set off on the long drive to texas however when they finally arrived. The woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet. In any case the trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste even without the woman's help george and his son-in-law managed to track down the man she'd mentioned the one who had allegedly claimed to be louis solder as it turned out there was more to the story. This lewis had brother. perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough. They agreed to speak with george but they firmly denied that they were lewis and maury solder their hopes dashed yet again. George and his son-in-law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in two thousand thirteen interview with the charleston gazette. She said i think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys if it made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those were his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger. Maybe someone threatened them or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted joke. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis sada's possible whereabouts one day in nineteen sixty eight. Jenny picked up the mail to find a very strange letter. It was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by bizarre message. I love brother frankie. Little boys a nine zero one three two or thirty-five needless to say jenny was shocked to think that after twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well somewhere or at least that he'd survive the fire. The implications were staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to compare all of nine year. Old louis xv features match up with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair. The long street knows the upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the saudis dispatch yet another private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from detective again. It's unclear what happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or you might have just taken the money and run. Jenny and george never found out what happened to the investigator. And with georgia's health still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard hoping that it might trigger some new piece of information. Sadly it didn't george died in nineteen sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny followed him to the grave. Twenty years later between the billboard and the private investigators the saudis reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives to searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the sutter family continue to seek out answers their efforts coupled with amateur online inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied that the mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear. the official reports. Don't tell the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with par three of the mystery of the disappearance of the solder children for more information on the solder house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian magazine article. The children who went up in smoke by karen abbott extremely helpful to our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. Cnx time and remember never take. We don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries is a spotify original from podcast. It is executive produced by max and ron cutler. Sound design by. Dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by noni okla goo with assistance by angela. Jorgensen and avi geli addie mae goo fact checking by claire. Cronin and research by brad. Klein and brian patriots unexplained mysteries stars. Molly brandenburg and richard rosner.

Jenny jenny george Lonnie johnson jenny solder lonnie George venza Fj morris fayetteville toyota jennie george peter tinsley Jennie george solder mcgrigor
The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

Serial Killers

40:24 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

"Forty two year old. Jenny is the flames licked against singe flesh. Burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully set by none other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used every cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or doing something even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by audi. The holidays are here. And it's time to get started on those wishlist but this year may be swapped the fuzzy slippers cashmere sweaters for something more exhilarating like the cutting edge available virtual cockpit imi my systems and the confidence of quattro all wheel drive which can only be experienced behind the wheel of a new audi and some throats yo wishlist at the season of audi sales event happening now. This episode is brought to you by state farm and you're hectic life plans are changing all the time. But what won't change is your commitment to protecting your loved one's future that's why state farm offers a variety of affordable life insurance policies to fit whatever stage of life. You're in to learn more heads. A life insurance dot state farm dot com or talk with your state farm agent after a devastating fire on christmas eve. Nineteen forty-five the solder family desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they'd lost their house and their five children. But jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because jenny and george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the latter that had gone missing on the night of the fire. They could have used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs. If they'd been able to locate it later. Someone found a ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in a ditch. The sada's never learned why it was moved or who had done it. Without the latter. George in his sons had tried to use their to coal trucks to climb into the house and rescue the trap children but lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all a witness claimed that he saw man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of hooks and ropes. That can be used to remove an engine from a car. The thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as it turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night. Lonnie also admitted to cutting the solders phone line. Just thirty minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jennie george. To believe that someone maybe lonnie had intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft if he was capable of that arson didn't seem like too far a leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonnie confessed that he wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he'd lit the flames. The solders even prove the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in in these seemingly confirmed george and jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past a solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed someone had intentionally set the solder house of flame perhaps using a molotov cocktail or another explosive. If true this meant that their children hadn't died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they returned the site turned memorial a few months later it was a somber moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why her older siblings had disappeared. Blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly. not a toy. It was an olive green hard cylindrical. Repre object after examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof and it was consistent with the loud thump and rolling sound. That woke jenny up in the middle of the night. In short lonnie johnson's suspicious behavior than napalm bomb and the lack of human remains made the sada. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five children. Jenny conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters had to ash all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere but with the stakes so high she couldn't only rely on her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther to confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce the human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned bodies. A two thousand degrees for two hours bone still remained since the blaze that had destroyed. The solder home had only burned for forty five minutes at the most. It was virtually impossible that it had reached the extreme heat of a closed crematorium so it seemed highly unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze had destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The otherwise tragic news was music to giannis ears. She took it as even more proof that your children couldn't have been in their house when it burned to the ground by this point husband george was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. This episode is brought to you. By feeding america as we approached the holidays more families will turn to food banks more than ever before many for the first time and with hunger disproportionately affecting communities of color it remains an ongoing and vital issue as the largest hunger relief organization. The us feeding america is dedicated to ending hunger through a nationwide network of foodbanks. Hunger may seem like a problem too big or too invisible to solve but together we can help ensure that our communities have enough to eat. Just one dollar helps provide at least ten meals to families in neighbors in need. See how you can help this holiday season by donating volunteering for advocating at feeding america dot org slash hope. This episode is brought to you by audi. The holidays are here again. And it's time to flout those holiday wishlist but this year. Avoid the usual. Trappings set aside the fuzzy slippers and cashmere sweaters. And consider something a little more exhilarating like the feel of available nappa leather the cutting edge available virtual cockpit and emma my systems and confidence of quattro all wheel drive all of which can only be experienced behind the wheel of a new audi. And some through to your wishlist. At the season of audi sales event happening now now back to the story officially a nine hundred and forty five christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents george. Jenny refused to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned away to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed to have seen all five of the missing solder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out from the window of a car on the night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders bid if she really did see the children that night. It raised all sorts of questions for jenny and george namely who abducted them in. Where did they take them before. They could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked at a tourist. Stop between fayetteville where the slaughterhouse was located and charleston a city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed to have seen the missing solder children with her own eyes the morning after the fire not only had. She spotted them. She'd served them all breakfast. Sadly she didn't have any information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled had a florida license plate and soon the sada's heard from different woman. One who worked at a charleston hotel. She'd helped check in a strange party about a week. After christmas eve. It was past midnight and the group consisted of four italian-speaking adults two men and two women and four children when the clerk tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile in began conversing amongst themselves in italian. Whatever they were saying it seemed they didn't want to be overheard. They refuse to speak with her anymore and the next morning they made sure to check out early. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day. She opened the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a lot to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happened to the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to george's mysterious past in italy. If only we knew what they had said in italian sadly for unknown reasons nothing came of this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months. Several witnesses pointed south toward florida. As it turned out. Jenny solders brother frank. Cheaper ronnie lived in the sunshine state and for a time. She entertain the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why jenny thought this. Maybe she was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Hunch miami police combed through birth records to prove that children living with cheap brioni or actually his. The records were in order and that path had turned out to be another dead end. But that wasn't the end of the mystery before too long. Georgian jenny uncovered another lead. Which once again suggested their sons and daughters were in florida a missionary in the small coastal village of cortez recognized the solder kids from picture he saw in the paper. He claimed that he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately georgian. Jenny dispatched a private detective to investigate but by the time he arrived the children were gone. Allegedly the detective confirmed that the children the missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true it's adjusted that there was some kind of dr cover up going on someone had made the solder children disappear before the pe- i could find them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years more tips from people claiming they'd seen the solder children came through and george solder followed up on every single one. He traveled the country but each time. His hopes were dashed. And george never got any closer to finding his missing children. Still the family wasn't ready to give up the search so in nineteen forty seven almost two years after the fire they appealed to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them a response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover wrote although i would like to be of service. The matter related appears to be of local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau however the f. b. i. didn't completely leave the solder family out in the cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities one might think the fayetteville police and fire departments would appreciate the help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting away with local fayetteville authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the sada's didn't get help from the fbi but even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in nineteen. Forty seven. jennie. George hired a private investigator named cc. Tinsley tinsley dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fayetteville. Citizen will refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter. The salesman was a cosigner on the solders home insurance policy but when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened that the sada's house would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months later. The house burned to the ground just as he said it would. All that certainly makes. Peter look suspicious however the fayetteville police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him it seemed. The local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was too prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which had ruled that the sutter fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself a payout if the fire wasn't accidental than it seemed downright nefarious that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinsley couldn't find any indication that peter had set the fire himself but he had another lead lonnie johnson the man who robbed the solder house and cut their phone line allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said he was quote getting tired of taking the rap for those people. Ed fayetteville. that wasn't much to go off of. But the statement suggested that lonnie was in league with some quote people at fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person had fade. Ville was peter who else to gain as much as he did. The problem. this alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they'd set the fire or kidnap the missing children so the detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire. Chief fj morris and under pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claimed that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the solder family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claim that he buried the heart in a dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say. The least george and jenny solder be satisfied until they could dig up this heart in see it for themselves but i see see tinsley arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site once they arrived. The chief pointed out where he buried the box they dug until they found it. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like it took any turn ity to uncover and when tinsley finally opened it up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley couldn't tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the oregon inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. It was a fake and not even a very convincing one. The liver didn't have a trace of burn marks on it. Rumor has it that chief. Morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden the beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put an end to the investigation once and for all he thought that if the family found proof that the children had perished in the fire. It finally be able to move on. But if that was chief marris's goal it only showed how much he'd underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any lengths to discover what had happened to their children after the beef liver debacle that continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty seven. George was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart's beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. He'd know her anywhere as he stared at the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young daughter. He made it all the way to manhattan and tracked down the child's school but when he arrived they didn't let him see the little girl. Perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george saadeh was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dead end. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jenny and george still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august. Nineteen forty nine. The solders hired pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. Be hunter to go over. The side with a fine tooth comb hunters. First step was to excavate the lot which has since been covered over once the pathologist had dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one of their children met a fiery death premeditated murder that surprise great. Israel's rates for your home and car from state farm good surprise stay calm always backed by something like evidence exhibit a stay from agents that are raised a help with personalized service. So you can customize your insurance exhibit being an award winning mobile app to manage coverage bills and file clamps exhibit seen again so presently great rates for equally great service. Now that is an ironclad alibi. Like a good neighbor. State farms there. So when you want the real deal go to state. Farm dot com. This episode is brought to you by three m three always been driven to improve lives through science and innovation it's this forward-thinking mindset that led three m to invent household items. You've come to know and love like post it notes and command us. But three and believes they have a responsibility to use their science to improve lives and even more ways that's why they're directly responding to the covid nineteen crisis by working on solutions for some of today's biggest challenges as a leading provider of personal protective equipment three producing critical products for health care workers and first responders and products and money to local and humanitarian aid partners around the globe. They're also making more respirators than ever before with plants working around the clock and expected to produce two billion total by the end of the year helping those on the front lines. Continue the fight. Three m science applied to life. Learn more about how three m's helping the world respond to covid nineteen at three dot com slash. Kovin now back to the story for years. The sada families searched for evidence of what had happened to their five missing children and then finally in august nineteen forty nine. They found a somber clue human remains specifically pathologist oscar. Hunter found the shards of four vertebrae all from the same body. And this time. The bones were undeniably from a person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle. Except there was something suspicious about the backbones. They didn't have any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see on a burn victim. This made it unlikely that the vertebrae belong to any of the solder children to make sure dr hunters sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington dc for further analysis the report that came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen. Likely too young for the backbones to be his the report that in rare cases a fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologist hypothesized that they must have been present in the dirt that george had added to the site to create the memorial. That beg the question of where exactly george got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston. West virginia extensively. These were to determine whether anything had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintain that. They done everything they could for the solders. Furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence is the reason they were unwilling to devote any more resources to the probe. This seem pretty. Incredible given the startling number of tips twists and witnesses who had come forward since the fire perhaps the authorities were just eager to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mysteries solved. Whatever the reason in nineteen fifty. The state of west virginia closed the inquiry for good. Both the governor and the state police superintendent told the solders in no uncertain terms that their case was quote hopeless. Sada's had exhausted all possible. Avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the solders made one last ditch attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts. They decided to crowd source their investigation. This was the nineteen fifties so they couldn't exactly post the details of the case online but they did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties. Jennie george. Solder paid to have a billboard erected along route sixteen near fayetteville at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped murdered or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from oldest to youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. The solders laid out their belief that the fire was started intentionally and the children survived the blaze. The billboard also suggested that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jennie george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information when that produce no results. They doubled it to ten thousand dollars as far as the saudis. Were concerned no price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went up potential clues trickled in for example the solders received a letter from a woman in missouri. She claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint louis then at patron at a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation overheard regarding christmasy fire in west virginia. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break In nineteen sixty seven a woman from houston reached out to report that she'd overheard drunken young man claiming to be louis solder. Who would then be thirty one years old. By this time. George was in his early seventies and in failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children. So the help of his son in law he set off on the long drive to texas however when they finally arrived. The woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet. In any case the trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste even without the woman's help george and his son-in-law managed to track down the man. She mentioned the one who had allegedly claimed to be louis. Solder as it turned out there was more to the story. This lewis had a brother. Perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough. They agreed to speak with george but they firmly denied that they were lewis and maurice solder their hopes dashed yet again. George and his son-in-law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in two thousand thirteen interview was the charleston gazette. She said i think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys and if he made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those were his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger. Maybe someone had threatened them or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis sada's possible whereabouts one day in nineteen sixty eight. Jenny picked up the mail to find a very strange letter. It was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was of a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by a bizarre message. I love brother frankie. Little boys a nine zero one three two or thirty five. Needless to say jenny was shocked to think that after twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well somewhere or at least that he'd survived the fire. The implications were staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to compare all of nine year. Old louis has features match up with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair. The long straight knows the upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the saudis dispatch yet another private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from the detective again. It's unclear what happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or he might have just taken the solder money and run. Jenny and george never found out what happened to the investigator. And with georgia's health still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard hoping that it might trigger some new piece of information. Sadly it didn't george died in nineteen sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny followed him to the grave. Twenty years later between the billboard and the private investigators the saudis reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives to searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the sutter family continue to seek out answers their efforts coupled with amateur online inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied that the mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear. the official reports. Don't tell the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with par three of the mystery of the disappearance of the solder children for more information on the house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian magazine article the children who went up in smoke by karen. Abbott extremely helpful. To our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from park asked for free on spotify. Cnx time and remember never take. We don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries is a spotify original. From podcast it is executive produced by max and ron cutler sound designed by dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by ninety okla goo with writing assistance by angela jurgensen and abby kelley audie magoo fact checking by claire cronin and research by brad klein and brian patriots unexplained mysteries stars molly. Brandenburg and richard rosner.

jenny george Jenny lonnie johnson lonnie sada Fj morris audi jenny solder fayetteville tinsley jennie george George peter Jennie Repre giannis george namely
The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

Killer Knowledge

39:30 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

"Forty two year old jenny solder watched as the flames licked against singe flesh burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully set by none other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used every cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or doing something even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us after a devastating fire on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. The sutter family desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they'd lost their house and their five children. But jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because jennie george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the latter that had gone missing on the night of the fire. They could have used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs. If they'd been able to locate it later someone found a ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in a ditch. The solders never learned why it was moved or who had done it without the ladder george. His sons had tried to use their to coal trucks to climb into the house and rescue the trapped children but lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all a witness claimed that he saw man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of hooks and ropes. That can be used to remove an engine from a car. Thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as it turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night. Lonnie also admitted to cutting the solders phone line. Just thirty minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jennie george. To believe that someone maybe lani had intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft if he was capable of that are didn't seem like too far leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonnie confessed that he wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he'd lit the flames. The sada's couldn't even prove the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in and they seemingly confirmed george and jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past a solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed someone had intentionally set the slaughterhouse. Aflame perhaps using molotov cocktail or another explosive. If true this meant that their children hadn't died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they returned to the site turned memorial a few months later it was a somber moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why her older siblings and Blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly. not a toy. It was an olive green hard cylindrical rubber object. After examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof and it was consistent with the loud thump and rolling sound. That woke jenny up in the middle of the night in short lonnie johnson's suspicious behavior. The napalm bomb and the lack of human remains may the solders. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five children. Jenny conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters had turned to ash all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere but with the stakes so high. She couldn't only rely her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther to confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce a human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned bodies a two thousand degrees for two hours bone still remained since the blaze that had destroyed. The sutter home had only burned for forty five minutes at the most. It was virtually impossible that it had reached the extreme heat of closed crematorium so it seemed highly unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested on the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze had destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The otherwise tragic news was music to jennings ears. She took it as even more proof that our children couldn't have been in their house when it burned to the ground. By this point her husband. George was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up. Information pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. This episode is brought to you. By feeding america as we approached the holidays more families will turn to food banks more than ever before many for the first time into with hunger. Disproportionately affecting communities of color it remains an ongoing and vital issue as the largest hunger relief organization in the us. Feeding america is dedicated to ending hunger through a nationwide network of food banks. Hunger may seem like a problem too big or too invisible to solve but together we can help ensure that our communities have enough to eat. Just one dollar helps provide at least ten meals to families in neighbors in need. See how you can help this holiday season by donating volunteering or advocating at feeding america dot org slash hope. This episode is brought to you by bile life plasma services. Now more than ever people want to know if there's anything they can do to help and the answer is yes at via life plasma services. You're plasmas desperately needed to create life. Changing madison's to help treat people with immune deficiencies those who are at most risk right now and when you donate plasma via life you can earn up to seven hundred dollars in your first month as a token of appreciation for your time so please become a donor by life visit bio life plasma dot com to schedule an appointment now back to the story. Officially a nineteen forty-five christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents george and jenny refused to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned away to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed to have seen all five of the missing solder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out from the window of a car on the night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders that if she really did see the children that night it raised all sorts of questions for jenny and george namely who abducted them in. Where did they take them before. They could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked at a tourist. Stop between fayetteville where. The solder house was located and charleston. A city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed to have seen the missing solder children with our own eyes the morning after the fire. Not only had. She spotted them. She served them all breakfast. Sadly have any information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled in had a florida license plate and soon the heard from different woman one who worked at a charleston hotel. She'd helped check in a strange party about a week. After christmas eve. It was past midnight and the group consisted of four italian-speaking adults two men and two women and four children when the clerk tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile in began conversing amongst themselves in italian. Whatever they were saying it seemed they didn't want to be overheard. They refused to speak with her anymore. And the next morning they made sure to check out early. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day. She opened the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a lot to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happened to the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to georgia's mysterious past in italy. If only we knew what they had said in italian sadly and for unknown reasons nothing came of this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months several witnesses pointed south toward florida as it turned out ginny solders brother frank. Cheaper yanni lived in the sunshine state and for a time. She entertained the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why jenny thought this. Maybe she was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Hunch miami police combed through birth records to prove that all of the children living with cheap reality or actually his the records were in order and that path had turned out to be another dead end. But that wasn't the end of the mystery before too long. George and jenny uncovered another lead. Which once again suggested their sons and daughters were in florida a missionary in the small coastal village. Cortez recognize the solder kids from a picture he saw in the paper. He claimed that he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately georgian. Jenny dispatched private detective to investigate. But by the time he arrived the children were gone. Allegedly the detective confirmed that the children the missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true it suggested that there was some kind of dark cover up going on some one had made the solder children disappear before the pe- i could find them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years. Several more tips from people claiming they'd seen the solder children came through and george solder followed up on every single one. He traveled the country but each time. His hopes were dashed. And george never got any closer to finding his missing children. Still the family wasn't ready to give up the search so in one thousand nine hundred. Forty-seven almost two years. After the fire they appeal to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them a response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover wrote although i would like to be of service. The matter related appears to be of local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau. However the fbi didn't completely leave the solder family out in the cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities one might think the fayetteville police and fire departments would appreciate the help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting in the way with local fayetteville authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the sutter's didn't get help from the fbi but even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in nineteen forty seven jennie. George hired a private investigator named c. c tinsley teens lee dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fayetteville. Citizen will refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter. The salesman was a cosigner on the solders home insurance policy but when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened that the solders house would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months later. The house burned to the ground just as he said it would. All that certainly makes. Peter look suspicious however the fayetteville police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him it seemed. The local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was too prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which had ruled that the sutter fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself a payout if the fire wasn't accidental than it seemed downright farris that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinsley couldn't find any indication that peter had set the fire himself but he had another lead in lonnie johnson. The man who robbed the solder house and cut their phone line allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said that he was quote getting tired of taking the rap for those people at fayetteville. That wasn't much to go off of. But the statement suggested that lonnie was in league with some quote people at fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person had fayetteville was peter who else to gain as much as he did. The problem. this alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley couldn't find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they set the fire. Get nap the missing children so that detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire. Chief fj morris and pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claimed that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the solder family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claimed that he buried the heart in dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say. The least george and jenny solder wouldn't be satisfied until they could dig up this in. See it for themselves but i. Cc teens lee arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site once they arrived. The chief pointed out where he buried the box they dug until they found it. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like it took any turney to uncover and when tinsley finally opened it up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley couldn't tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the organ inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. It was a fake and not even a very convincing one. The liver didn't have a trace of burn marks on it. Rumor has it that chief. Morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden the beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put an end to the investigation once and for all he thought that if the solder family found proof that the children had perished in the fire they finally be able to move on. But if that was chief marris's goal it only showed how much he'd underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any lengths to discover what had happened to their children after the beef liver debacle that continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty seven. George was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart skip a beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. He'd know her anywhere as he stared at the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young daughter. He made it all the way to manhattan and track down the child school but when he arrived didn't let him see the little girl perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george solder was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dead end. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jennie george still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august nineteen forty-nine. The sada's hired a pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. B hunter to go over the site with a fine tooth comb. Hunters first step was to excavate the lot which has since been covered over once the pathologist had dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one of their children met a fiery death. This episode is brought to you by the real cost and the fda if you vape you could be inhaling toxic metals into your lungs to make you feel how scary that is. We could have gone to town with some real scary music thrown in some zombie sound effects or some blood curdling screaming and over the top shrieking you get the point but nothing is as scary as the facts vaping and deliver toxic metals like nickel and lead in your lungs. That's metal in your lungs. Read up about the dangers of vaping on the real cost dot gov this episode is brought to you by three m three m has always been driven to improve lives through science and innovation. It's this forward thinking. Mindset that led three am to invent household items. You've come to know and love like post it. Notes and command hosts but three and believes they have a responsibility to use their science to improve lives and even more ways that's why they're directly responding to the covid nineteen crisis by working on solutions for some of today's biggest challenges as a leading provider of personal protective equipment. Three emma's producing critical products for health. Care workers in first responders and donating products and money to local and humanitarian aid partners around the globe. They're also making more respirators than ever before with plants working around the clock and expected to produce two billion total by the end of the year helping those on the front lines. Continue the fight. Three m science applied to life. Learn more about how three am is helping the world respond to covid nineteen at three m dot com slash. Cova back to the story for years. The solder families searched for evidence of what had happened to their five missing children. And then finally. In august nineteen forty-nine they found a sombre clue human remains specifically pathologist oscar. Hunter found the shards of four vertebrae all from the same body. And this time. The bones were undeniably from a person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle. Except there was something suspicious about the backbones. They didn't have any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see on a burn victim. This made it unlikely that the vertebrae belong to any of the solder children. To make sure dr hunter sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington dc for further analysis the report that came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen. Likely too young for the backbones to be his. The report did allow that in rare cases. A fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologists hypothesized that they must have been present in the dirt that george had added to the site to create the memorial. That big question of where exactly. George got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston. West virginia extensively. These were to determine whether anything had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintain that. They've done everything they could for the solders. Furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence is the reason they were unwilling to devote any more resources to the probe. This seem pretty. Incredible given the startling number of tips twists and witnesses who had come forward since the fire perhaps the authorities were just eager to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mystery solved whatever the reason in one thousand nine hundred fifty. The state of west virginia closed the inquiry for good. Both the governor and the state police superintendent told the solders in no uncertain terms that their case was quote hopeless. It seemed like the saudis had exhausted all possible avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities. Were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the solders made one last attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts. They decided to crowd source their investigation. This was the nineteen fifties so they couldn't exactly post the details of the case online but did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties jennie. George solder paid to have billboard erected along route sixteen near fat fill at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped murdered or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from oldest to youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. The solders laid out their belief that the fire was started intentionally and the children survived the blaze. The billboard also suggested that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jenny and george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information when that produced no results. They doubled it to ten thousand dollars. As far as the solders were concerned. Not price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went up potential clues trickled in for example the solders received a letter from a woman in missouri. She claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint louis then a patron at a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation. Need over heard regarding christmasy fire in west virginia. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven. A woman from houston reached out to report that she'd overheard a drunken young man claiming to be louis solder. Who would then be thirty one years old. By this time. George was in his early seventies and in failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children. So with the help of his son in law he set off on the long drive to texas however when they finally arrived. The woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet. In any case the trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste even without the woman's help george and his son-in-law managed to track down the man she'd mentioned the one who had allegedly claimed to be louis solder as it turned out there was more to the story. This lewis had a brother. Perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough. They agreed to speak with george but they firmly denied that they were a lewis and maurice solder. Their hopes dashed yet again. George and his son in law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in a two thousand thirteen interview with the charleston gazette. She said i think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys. And if it made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those were his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger. Maybe someone threatened them or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted joke. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis solders possible whereabouts one day in nineteen sixty eight. Jenny picked up the mail to find a very strange letter. It was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by bizarre message. I love brother frankie. Little boys a nine zero one three two or thirty-five needless to say jenny was shocked to think that after twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well somewhere or at least that he'd survived the fire. The implications were staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to compare all of nine year old louis features match up with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair belong straight knows. The upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the saudis to dispatch yet another private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from the detective again. It's unclear what happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or he might have just taken the money and run. Jenny and george never found out what happened to the investigator. And with georgia's health still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard hoping that it might trigger some new piece of information. Sadly it didn't george died in nineteen sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny followed him to the grave. Twenty years later between the billboard and the private investigators the solders reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives to searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in nineteen eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the sutter family continue to seek out answers their efforts coupled with amateur online inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied that the mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear. The official reports the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with par three of the mystery of the disappearance of the solder children for more information on the solder house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian magazine article that children who went up in smoke by cabot extremely helpful to our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from park asked for free on spotify. Cnx time in remember. Never take we. Don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries is a spotify original from podcast. It is executive produced by max and ron cutler. Sound design by. Dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by ninety okla goo with writing assistance by angela jurgensen and avi kelly audie magoo fact checking claire. Cronin and research by brad. Klein and brian patriots unexplained mysteries stars. Molly brandenburg and richard rosner.

jenny george jenny solder jennie george Lonnie johnson Jenny fayetteville Fj morris lonnie George peter tinsley Jennie george solder sada sutter fbi
The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

Dictators

40:51 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

"Forty two year old jenny solder watched as the flames licked against singe flesh burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully set by none other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used every cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or doing something even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by bank of america. We're all shopping online these days. And now you can get rewarded for it with the bank of america cash rewards credit card. You can choose to earn three percent on online shopping essentials. The essentials have never been more rewarding visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright twenty twenty and bank of america corporation. This episode is brought to you by feeding america. This holiday season many families will turn to food banks for the first time. Feeding america is on a mission to help these families by supplying food and resources to food banks across the country. Together we can help end hunger. Learn how at feeding america dot org slash hope this episode is brought to you by columbia. Coffee occur celebrate all the unofficial unserious moments of holiday fun with easy. Mix kalou coffee. Cocktails made with one hundred percents real arabica coffee beans pollute a lighthearted twist your drinks and your virtual parties atmosphere. Pick up a bottle of colusa this season at liquor or grocery store near you or order online beatrice -ly after a devastating fire on christmas eve. Nineteen forty-five the solder family desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they'd lost their house and their five children. Jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because jenny and george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the latter that had gone missing on the night of the fire. They could have used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs. If they'd been able to locate it later. Someone found a ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in a ditch. The solders never learned why it was moved. Or who had done it without the latter georgia and his sons had tried to use their to coal trucks to climb into the house and rescued the trap children. But lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all a witness claimed that he saw a man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of hooks and ropes. That can be used to remove an engine from a car. The thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as it turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night. Lonnie also admitted to cutting the sada's phone line just thirty minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jenny. And george to believe that someone may be lonnie had intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft if he was capable of that arson didn't seem like too far a leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonnie confessed that he wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he'd lit the flames. The sada's couldn't even prove the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in and they seemingly confirmed george. Jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past a solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed someone had intentionally set the solder house. Flame perhaps using a molotov cocktail or another explosive. If true this meant that their children hadn't died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they returned to the site turned memorial a few months later it a somber moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why her older siblings had disappeared. Blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly. Not a toy it was in olive. Green hard cylindrical rubber object after examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof and it was consistent with the loud thump and rolling. Sound that jenny up in the middle of the night in short lonnie johnson's suspicious behavior. The napalm bomb and the lack of human remains made the saunders. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five children. Jenny conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters had turned to ash all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere but with the stakes so high she couldn't only rely on her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther to confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce a human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned bodies. Two thousand degrees for two hours bone still remained since the blaze that had destroyed. The solder home had only burned for forty five minutes at the most. It was virtually impossible that it had reached the extreme heat of a closed crematorium so it seemed highly unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested on the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The otherwise tragic news was music to jen's ears. She took it as even more proof that our children couldn't have been in their house when it burned to the ground. By this point her husband. George was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up. Information pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. This episode is brought to you. By feeding america as we approached the holidays more families will turn to food banks more than ever before many for the first time into with hunger. Disproportionately affecting communities of color it remains an ongoing vital issue as the largest hunger relief organization in the us. Feeding america is dedicated to ending hunger through a nationwide network of food banks. Hunger may seem like a problem too big or too invisible to solve but together we can help ensure that our communities have enough to eat. Just one dollar helps provide at least ten meals to families and neighbors in need. See how you can help this holiday season by donating volunteering for advocating at feeding america dot org slash hope. This episode is brought to you by the twenty twenty one tweeted venza. Say you're twelve events driver and you're passionate about technology. The benza is designed with everything you need when you need it most surround yourself with the latest tech including available twelve point three inch touchscreen so you can easily access all of your apps maps and music speaking of music. The toyota venza also comes with an available nine speaker. Jbl audio system complete with a sub woofer amplifier usb and auxiliary ports plus bluetooth connectivity with standard all wheel drive a hybrid powertrain and an available head up display. You can gear up in style. Introducing the toyota venza learn more at toyota dot com slash venza toyota. Let's go places now back to the story. Officially a nineteen forty-five christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents. George and jenny refused to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned away to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed to have seen all five of the missing solder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out from the window of a car on the night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders that if she really did see the children that night. It raised all sorts of questions for jennie george namely who abducted them in. Where did they take them before. They could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked at a tourist. Stop between fayetteville where. The solder house was located and charleston. A city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed to have seen the missing solder children with her own is the morning after the fire. Not only had. She spotted them. Served them all breakfast. Sadly she didn't have any information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled in had a florida license plate and soon the sada's heard from different woman. One who worked at a charleston hotel. She'd helped check in a strange party about a week. After christmas eve. It was past midnight and the group consisted of four italian speaking adults. Two men and two women and four children when the clerk tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile and began conversing amongst themselves in italian. whatever they were saying it seemed. They didn't want to be overheard. They refused to speak with her anymore. And the next morning they made sure to check out early. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day. She opened the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happened to the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to georgia's mysterious past in italy. If only we knew what they had said in italian sadly and for unknown reasons nothing came of this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months. Several witnesses pointed south toward florida. As it turned out ginny. Sarah's brother frank cheap yanni lived in the sunshine state and for a time. She entertained the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why jenny thought this. Maybe she was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Hunch miami police combed through birth records to prove that all of the children living with cheaper yanni or actually his. The records were in order and that path turned out to be another dead end. But that wasn't the end of the mystery before too long. George and jenny uncovered another lead. Which once again suggested their sons and daughters were in florida. A missionary in the small coastal village of cortes recognize disorder. Kids from a picture he saw in the paper. He claimed that he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately georgia. Jenny dispatched a private detective to investigate but by the time he arrived the children were gone. The detective confirmed that the children the missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true jested that there was some kind of dark cover up going on someone had made the solder children disappear before the pe- i could find them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years. Several more tips from people claiming they'd seen the solder children came through and george sutter followed up on every single one. He traveled the country but each time. His hopes were dashed. And george never got any closer to finding his missing children. Still the family wasn't ready to give up the search so in nineteen forty seven almost two years after the fire they appealed to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them a response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover wrote although i would like to be of service. The matter related appears to be of local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau. However the fbi didn't completely leave the solder family out in the cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities one might think the fayetteville police and fire departments would appreciate the help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting in the way with local fayetteville authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the sutter's didn't get help from the fbi but even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in one thousand nine hundred forty seven jennie. George hired a private investigator named cc. Tinsley teens lee dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fayetteville. Citizen will refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter. The salesman was a cosigner on the solders home insurance policy but when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened souders. House would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months later. The house burned to the ground just as he said it would. All that certainly makes. Peter look suspicious however the fayetteville police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him it seemed. The local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was too prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which had ruled that the sutter fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself a payout if the fire wasn't accidental than it seemed downright nefarious that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinsley couldn't find any indication that peter had set the fire himself but he had another lead in lonnie johnson. The man who had robbed the solder house and cut their phone line allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said that he was quote getting tired of taking the rap for those people at fayetteville. That wasn't much to go off of. But the statement suggested that lonnie was in league with some quote people at fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person had fayetteville was peter who else to gain as much as he did. The problem. this alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley couldn't find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they'd set the fire or kidnap the missing children so that detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire. Chief fj morris and pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claimed that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the solder family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claim that he buried the heart in dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say. The least george and jenny solder wouldn't be satisfied until they could up this heart in see it for themselves but i see tinsley arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site once they arrived. The chief pointed out where he buried the box they dug until they found it. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like it took any ity to uncover and when tinsley finally opened it up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley couldn't tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the oregon inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. It was a fake and not even a very convincing one. The liver didn't have a trace of mark's on it. Rumor has it that chief morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden a beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put an end to the investigation once and for all he thought that if the solder family found proof that the children had perished in the fire they finally be able to move on. But if that was chief marris's goal it only showed how much underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any length to discover what had happened to their children. After the beef liver debacle the continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty seven. George was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart skip a beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. He'd know her anywhere as he stared at the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young daughter. He made it all the way to manhattan and track down the child's school but when he arrived they didn't let him see the little girl. Perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george solder was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dead end. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jennie george still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august nineteen forty-nine. The solders hired a pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. B hunter to go over the site with a fine tooth comb. Hunters first step was to excavate the lot which had since been covered over once the pathologist dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one of their children met a fiery death. This episode is brought to you by mail chimp after gathering insights for millions of small business customers over the last twenty years. Mailchimp has some marketing smarts to share like creative smarts with male chimps new creative assistant. You can create beautiful. Ai generated designs using your existing brand assets or customer journey. Smarts like of customer by something. Mail chimp will help you. Stay ahead of what they might buy next and then set up follow of emails to help. Close the deal or recommendation. Smarts get tips in insights and what works. What doesn't in what to do next to target your highest value customers. Sell more stuff with marketing. Smarts for mailchimp. Try it now at mail. Chimp dot com slash smart marketing. This episode is brought to you by progressive progressive. Has you covered when it comes to car. Insurance starting with built in savings like discounts for being a safe driver. You can also say you're quote online or have multiple vehicles on your policy in fact drivers who switch and save with progressive. Save over seven hundred and fifty dollars on average started quote online and see all the discounts for yourself visit progressive dot com today. National annual average auto insurance savings by new customer survey in two thousand nineteen potential savings will vary discounts vary and are not available in all states and situations now back to the story for years. The solder families searched for evidence of what had happened to their five missing children and then finally in august nineteen forty nine. They found a somber clue human remains specifically but oscar hunter found the shards of four vertebrae all from the same body. And this time the bones were undeniably from person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle. Except there was something suspicious about the backbones. They didn't have any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see on a burn victim. This made it unlikely that the vertebrae belong to any of the solder children. To make sure dr hunter sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington dc for further analysis the report that came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen. Likely too young for the backbones to be his. The report did allow that in rare cases. A fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologists hypothesized. They must have been present in the dirt that george had added to the site to create the memorial that begs the question of where exactly george got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston. West virginia extensively. These were to determine whether they had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintain that. They've done everything they could for the solders. Furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence is the reason they were unwilling to devote any more resources to the probe. This seem pretty. Incredible given the startling number of tips twists and witnesses who had come forward since the fire perhaps the authorities were just eager to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mysteries solved. Whatever the reason in one thousand nine fifty. The state of west virginia closed the inquiry for good. Both the governor and the state police superintendent told the solders in no uncertain terms that their case was quote hopeless. It seemed like the sada's had exhausted all possible. Avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the solders made one last ditch attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts. They decided to crowdsource their investigation. This was the nineteen fifties so they couldn't exactly post the details of the case online but they did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties. Jenny and george solder paid have a billboard erected along route sixteen near fayetteville at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped murdered or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from oldest to youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. The solders laid out their belief that the fire was started intentionally and the children survived the blaze. The billboard also suggested that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jenny and george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information when that produced no results. They doubled it to ten thousand dollars. As far as the solders were concerned. No price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went potential clues trickled in for example the sada's received a letter from a woman in missouri. Claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint louis then patron at a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation made overheard regarding christmasy fire in west virginia. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break in nineteen sixty seven. A woman from houston reached out to report that she'd overheard drunken young man claiming to be louis solder. Who would then be thirty one years old. By this time. George was in his early seventies and in failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children. So with the help of his son in law he set off on the long drive texas however when they finally arrived. The woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet any case. The trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste. Even without the woman's help george and his son-in-law managed to track down the man she'd mentioned the one who had allegedly claimed to be. Louis solder turned out. There was more to the story. This lewis had a brother. Perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough. They agreed to speak with george but they firmly denied that they were lewis and maurice solder their hopes dashed yet again. George and his son-in-law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in a two thousand thirteen interview was the charleston gazette. She said i think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys and if he'd made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those were his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger. Maybe someone had threatened them or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted joke. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis sada's possible whereabouts one day in nineteen sixty eight. Jenny picked up the mail to find a very strange letter. It was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was of a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by a bazaar message. I love brother frankie. Little boys a nine zero one three two or thirty five. Needless to say jenny was shocked to think that after twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well somewhere or at least that he'd survived the fire. The implications were staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to compare all of nine year old lewis's features match up with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair. The long straight knows the upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the saudis to dispatch yet another private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from the detective. Again it's unclear. What happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or you might have just taken the sada's money and run jennie. George never found out what happened to the investigator and with georgia's health still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard hoping that might trigger some new piece of information. sadly it didn't george died in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny followed him to the grave. Twenty years later between the billboard and the private investigators the saudis reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives to searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the sutter family continue to seek out answers their efforts coupled with amateur online inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied that the mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear. the official reports. Don't tell the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with par three of the mystery of the disappearance of the solder children for more information on the solder house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian magazine article that children who went up in smoke by karen abbott extremely helpful to our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from park asked for free on spotify. Cnx time and remember never take. We don't no for an answer unexplained mysteries original from cast. It is executive produced. By max and ron cutler. Sound design by. Dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by noni okla goo with writing assistance by angela. Jorgensen and geli addie magoo fact checking by claire cronin and research by brad. Klein and brian beatrice unexplained mysteries stars. Molly brandenburg and richard rosner.

jenny george Jenny jenny solder lonnie johnson fayetteville lonnie Fj morris sada bank of america George us tinsley peter toyota jennie george Jennie venza
The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

Medical Mysteries

40:40 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

"Forty two year old jenny solder watched as the flames licked against singe flesh burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully sat on other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used every cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or doing something even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us. Let's say you're toyota venza driver and love scary movies. A real fem. Now say there's a horror film festival at a drive in movie. Theater starts in an hour. What do you as a film. Buff do well with the venza. Standard all wheel drive and available navigation. The only thing scarier than the movie will be how easy it was to get there on time. Introducing the toyota venza everything you need when you did most learn more at toyota dot com slash venza toyota. Let's go places. This episode is brought to you by feeding america. This holiday season many families will turn to food banks for the first time. Feeding america is on a mission to help these families by supplying food and resources to food banks across the country. Together we can help end hunger. Learn how at feeding america dot org slash hope. This episode is brought to you by bank of america. We're all shopping online these days and now you can get rewarded for it. With the bank of america cash rewards credit card. You can choose to earn three percent cash back on online shopping essentials. The essentials have never been more rewarding visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright twenty twenty and bank of america corporation after a devastating fire on christmas eve. Nineteen forty-five the sutter family desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they'd lost their house. And they're five. But jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because jennie george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the ladder that had gone missing on the night of the fire. They could have used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs. If they'd been able to located later someone found a ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in a ditch. The sada's never learned why it was moved or who had done it without the ladder. George in his sons had tried to use their to coal trucks to climb into the house and rescue the trap children but lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all a witness claim that he saw man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of ropes that can be used to remove an engine from a car thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as it turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night. Lonnie also admitted to cutting the solders phone line. Just three minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jennie. George to believe that someone may be lonnie had intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft if he was capable of that arson didn't seem like too far leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonny confess that. He wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he'd lit the flames. The solders couldn't even prove the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in in these seemingly confirmed george and jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past a solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed someone had intentionally set the slaughterhouse. Flame perhaps using a molotov cocktail or another explosive. If true this meant that their children hadn't died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they returned to the site turned memorial a few months later it was a somber moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why her older siblings had disappeared. Blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly. not a toy. It was an olive green hard cylindrical rubber object. After examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof. And it was consistent with the loud thump. Enrolling sound that woke jenny up in the middle of the night. In short lonnie johnson's suspicious behavior than napalm bomb and the lack of human remains made the solders. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five seven. Jenny conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters had turned to ash all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere but with the stakes so high she couldn't only rely on her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther to confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce a human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned bodies a two thousand degrees for two hours bone still remained since the blaze that had destroyed the sutter home had only burned for forty five minutes at the most it was virtually impossible. It had reached the extreme heat of a closed crematorium so it seemed highly unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested on the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze had destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The otherwise tragic news was music to jenny's ears. She took it as even more proof that our children couldn't have been in their house when it burned to the ground. By this point her husband. George was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up. Information pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. This episode is brought to you by feeding america as approached the holidays more families will turn to food banks more than ever before many for the first time into with hunger. Disproportionately affecting communities of color. It remains an ongoing and vital issue as the largest hunger relief organization in the us. Feeding america is dedicated to ending hunger through a nationwide network of foodbanks. Hunger may seem like a problem too big or too invisible to solve but together we can help ensure that our communities have enough to eat. Just one dollar helps provide at least ten meals to families in neighbors in need. See how you can help this holiday season by donating volunteering for advocating at feeding america dot org slash hope. This episode is brought to you by bank of america. You finally decided to how to ice skate. So you ordered the essentials. Every ice skater needs a pair of blades. A new helmet and a good set of kneepads. And you used your bank of america's cash rewards credit card choosing to earn three percent cash back on online shopping rewards that you put towards the cost of an essential piece of post skating recovery. A heating pad visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright twenty twenty bank of america corporation now back to the story officially a nineteen forty-five christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents george and jenny refused to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned away to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed to have seen all five of the missing sadder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out from the window of a car on the night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders that if she really did see the children that night it raised all sorts of questions for jenny and george namely who abducted in. Where did they take them before. They could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked at a tourist. Stop between fayetteville where. The solder house was located and charleston. A city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed seen the missing solder children with our own eyes the morning after the fire not only had. She spotted them. She'd served them all breakfast. Sadly she didn't have any information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled in had a florida license plate and soon the solders heard from a different woman. One who worked at charleston hotel. She'd helped check in a strange party about a week. After christmas eve. It was past midnight and the group consisted of four italian speaking adults. Two men and two women and four children when the clerk tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile in began conversing amongst themselves in italian. whatever they were saying it seemed. They didn't want to be overheard. They refuse to speak with her anymore. And the next morning they made sure to check out early. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day. She opened the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a lot to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happened to the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to georgia's mysterious past in italy. If only we knew what they had said in italian sadly and for unknown reasons nothing came of this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months. Several witnesses pointed south toward florida. As it turned out. Jenny solders brother frank. Brioni lived in the sunshine state and for a time. She entertained the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why jenny thought this. Maybe she was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Hunch miami police combed through birth records to prove that all of the children living with cheap brioni or actually his. The records were in order and that path had turned out to be another dead end. But that wasn't the end of the mystery before too long. George and jenny uncovered another lead. Which once again suggested their sons and daughters were florida. A missionary in the small coastal village of cortes recognized the solder kids from picture he saw in the paper. He claimed that he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately georgian. Jenny dispatched a private detective to investigate but by the time he arrived the children were gone. Allegedly the detective confirmed that the children the missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true it suggested that there was some kind of dark cover up going on. Someone had made the solder children disappear before the pi them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years. Several more tips from people claiming they'd seen the solder children came through and daughter followed up on every single one. He traveled the country but each time. His hopes were dashed. And george never got any closer to his missing children. Still the family wasn't ready to give up the search so in nineteen forty seven almost two years after the fire they appealed to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them a response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover wrote although i would like to be of service. The matter related appears to be of local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau. However the fbi didn't completely leave the solder family out in the cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities one might think the fayetteville police and fire departments would appreciate the help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting in the way with local fayetteville authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the sada's didn't get help from the fbi but even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in nineteen. Forty seven. jennie. George hired a private investigator named cc. Tinsley tinsley dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fitsville citizen. We'll refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter. The salesman was a cosigner on the home insurance policy but when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened that the solders house would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months. The house burned to the ground just as he said it would. All that certainly makes. Peter look suspicious however the fed ville police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him it seemed. The local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was too prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which had ruled that the sutter fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself a payout if the fire wasn't accidental than it seemed downright nefarious that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinsley couldn't find any indication that peter set the fire himself but he had another lead in lonnie johnson. The man who had robbed the solder house and cut their phone line allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said that he was quote getting tired of taking the rap for those people at fayetteville. That wasn't much to go off of. But the statement suggested that lonnie was in league with some quote people at fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person had fayetteville was peter who else to gain as much as he did. The problem. this alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley couldn't find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they'd set the fire or kidnap the missing children so that detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire. Chief fj morris and under pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claimed that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the solder family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claim that he buried the heart in a dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say. The least george and jenny solder wouldn't be satisfied until they could dig up this heart in see it for themselves but i see see tinsley arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site. Once they arrived. The chief pointed out where he'd buried the box they dug until they found it. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like it took any turn ity to uncover and when tinsley finally opened it up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the oregon inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. it was a fake and not even a very convincing. one deliver. Didn't have a trace of burn marks on it. Rumor has it that chief morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden the beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put an end to the investigation once and for all he thought that if the solder family found proof that the children had perished in the fire. It finally be able to move on. But if that was chief marris's goal it only showed how much he'd underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any lengths to discover what had happened to their children after the beef liver debacle that continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty. Seven georgia was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart skip a beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. You know her anywhere. As he stared at the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young daughter. He made it all the way to manhattan and track down the child's school but when he arrived they didn't let him see the little girl. Perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george solder was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dand. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jenny and george still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august nineteen forty-nine. The sada's hired a pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. B hunter to go over the site with a fine tooth comb. Hunters first step was to excavate the lot which had since been covered over once the pathologist had dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one of their children met a fiery death. saying you're a toyota venza driver and there isn't a true crime podcast. You haven't streamed every murder scandal and cold-case you've heard the evidence so what's left to uncover. Well you can start with the toyota venza with toyota venza available twelve point three inch touchscreen stargazer panoramic roof and standard all wheel drive. Maybe it's time to start the engine and find out for yourself now. That's entertainment introducing the toyota venza. The ultimate crossover toyota. Let's go places. This episode is brought to you by normal now. A campaign raising awareness about electric vehicles. Here's a fun fact in the early two thousands. Podcasts were called audio blogs at first people thought they seem strange would never catch on but now people listen to them. All over the world just like podcasts. Electric cars are normal now. They can handle long distances. So you can drive just about anywhere you wanna go. Plus they charge faster than ever and there are lots more charging stations around than you might think. Not only are they. Normal they even come with a few perks. Potentially saving you money. There are lots of affordable models and they tend to need less routine maintenance so normal is looking even better electric cars. They're normal now. Learn more at normal now dot com now back to the story for years. The solder families searched for evidence of what had happened to their five missing children. And then finally in august nineteen forty-nine they found a somber clue human remains specifically but thala oscar hunter found the shards of four vertebrae all from the same body and this time the bones were undeniably from person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle except there was something suspicious about the back bounds. They didn't have any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see on a burn victim. This made it unlikely that the vertebrae belong to any of the solder children. To make sure dr hunter sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington dc for further analysis the report that came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen. Likely too young for the backbones to his. The report did allow that. In rare cases a fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of a sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologist hypothesized that they must have been present in the dirt that george had added to the site to create the memorial. That begs the question of where exactly george got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston. West virginia extensively. These were to determine whether anything had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintain that. They've done everything they could for the solders. Furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence is the reason they were unwilling to devote any more resources to the probe. This seem pretty. Incredible given the startling number of tips twists and witnesses who had come forward since the fire perhaps the authorities were just eager to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mysteries solved. Whatever the reason in one thousand nine hundred fifty. The state of west virginia closed the inquiry for good. Both the governor and the state police superintendent told the sutter's in no uncertain terms that their case was quote hopeless. It seemed like the solders had exhausted all possible. Avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities. Were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the solders made one last ditch attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts they decided to crowd sourced their investigation. This was the nineteen fifties so they couldn't exactly post details of the case online but they did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties jenny in george solder paid to have a billboard erected along route sixteen near fayetteville at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped murdered or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from oldest to youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. The solders laid out their belief that the fire was started intentionally and a children's survived the blaze the billboard also suggested that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jennie george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information when that produced no results. They doubled it to ten thousand dollars as far as the saudis. Were concerned no price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went up potential clues trickled in for example the solders received a letter from a woman in missouri. She claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint louis then a patron at a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation. They'd overheard regarding christmasy fire in west virginia. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven. A woman from houston reached out to report that she'd overheard a drunken young man claiming to be louis solder. Who would then be thirty one years old. By this time. George was in his early seventies and in failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children. So with the help of his son in law he set off on the long drive to texas however when they finally arrived. The woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet. In any case the trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste. Even without the woman help george and his son-in-law managed to track down the man she'd mentioned the one who had allegedly claimed to be louis satar as it turned out there was more to the story. This lewis had a brother. Perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough. They agreed to speak with george but they firmly denied that they were lewis and maurice solder their hopes dashed yet again. George and his son-in-law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in a two thousand thirteen interview was the charleston gazette. She said i think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys. And if it made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those were his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger. Maybe someone had threatened them or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted joke. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis solders possible whereabouts one day in nineteen sixty eight. Jenny picked up the mail to find a very strange letter. It was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by bazaar message. I love brother frankie. Little boys a nine zero one three two or thirty five. Needless to say jenny was shocked to think that after twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well somewhere or at least did he'd survived the fire. The implications are staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to compare all of nine year old lewis's features match up with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair. The long straight knows the upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the saudis to dispatch yet another private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from the detective. Again it's unclear. What happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or he might have just taken the sada's money and run. Jenny and george never found out what happened to the investigator. And with georgia's health still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard hoping that it might trigger some new piece of information. Sadly it didn't george died in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny followed him to the grave. Twenty years later between the billboard and the private investigators the solders reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives to searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in nineteen eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the sutter family continue to seek out answers their efforts coupled with amateur online inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied that the mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear. the official reports. Don't tell the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with par three of the mystery of the disappearance of the solder children for more information on the solder house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian magazine article. The children who went up in smoke by karen abbott extremely helpful to our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from park asked for free on spotify. Cnx time in remember. Never take we. Don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries is a spotify original. From podcast it is executive produced by max and ron cutler said by dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro. Carly madden and travis clark. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by noni okla with writing assistance by angela jurgensen. And obviously addie magoo fact checking by claire cronin and research by brad. Klein and brian beatrice unexplained mysteries stars molly. Brandenburg and richard rosner.

jenny jenny solder george bank of america lonnie johnson toyota venza Jenny Fj morris George lonnie america fayetteville tinsley sada peter jennie george Jennie
The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

The Dark Side Of

40:11 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

"Forty two year old jenny solder watched as the flames licked against singe flesh burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully set by none other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used every cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or something. Even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by three m you may know three m for scotch tape and posted notes but three m helps improve people's lives in many ways in response to covid nineteen three. Ms committed tens of millions of dollars in cash in product donations including respirators surgical masks and hand sanitizer learn. How else three am is helping the world respond to covid nineteen at three m dot com slash covid after a devastating fire on christmas eve. Nineteen forty-five the solder family desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they'd lost their house and their five children. But jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because jenny and george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the latter that had gone missing on the night of the fire. They could have used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs. If they'd been able to locate it later. Someone found a ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in a ditch. The solders never learned why it was moved or or who had done it without the ladder. George and his sons had tried to use their to coal trucks to climb into the house and rescue the trap children but lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all a witness claimed that he saw man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of hooks and ropes. That can be used to remove an engine from a car. The thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as it turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night. Lonnie also admitted to cutting the sada's phone line just thirty minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jenny. And george to believe that someone maybe lani had intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft if he was capable of that arson didn't seem like too far a leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonnie confessed that he wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he'd lit the flames the sada's couldn't even proved the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in and they seemingly confirmed george and jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past a solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed somewhat had intentionally set the solder house of flame perhaps using a molotov cocktail or another explosive. If true this meant that their children hadn't died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they returned to the site turned memorial a few months later it was a somber moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why her older siblings had disappeared. Blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly. not a toy. It was an olive green hard cylindrical rubber object. After examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof and it was consistent with the loud thump and rolling sound. That woke jenny up in the middle of the night in short lonnie johnson's suspicious behavior. The napalm bomb and the lack of human remains made the solder. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five children. Jenny conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters had turned to ash all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere but with the stakes so high she couldn't only rely on her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther to confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce a human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned bodies two thousand degrees for two hours bone still remained since the blaze that had destroyed. The sod home had only burned for forty five minutes at the most. It was virtually impossible that it had reached the extreme heat of a closed crematorium so it seemed highly unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested on the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The otherwise tragic news was music to giannis ears. She took it as even more proof that our children couldn't have been in their house when it burned to the ground. By this point her husband. George was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up. Information pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. Do you get bored between episodes of the dark side of a need a way to pass the time. Do what i do and play best fiends. It's a casual mobile puzzle. Game that so fun to play. I can't put it down though. I'm only on level one thirty five. It's got over five thousand challenging puzzles. One of my favorite aspects of the game is that you never really run out of chances to win. I liked to play late at night for a few minutes before bed. But sometimes sneak in games between recording sessions. Get in on the fun and play best means it has over one hundred million downloads literally. Millions of five star reviews on the apple app store and google play seriously once you download best fiends. Boredom won't stand a chance download best fiends free today on the apple app store or google play. That's friends without the our best fiends. This episode is brought to you. By feeding america as we approached the holidays more families will turn to food banks more than ever many for the first time into a hunger. Disproportionately affecting communities of color it remains an ongoing and vital issue as the largest hunger relief organization in the us. Feeding america is dedicated to ending hunger through a nationwide network of food banks. Hunger may seem like a problem too big or too invisible to solve but together we can help ensure that our communities have enough to eat. Just one dollar helps provide at least ten meals to families and neighbors in need. See how can help this holiday season by donating volunteering for advocating at feeding america dot org slash hope now back to the story. Officially a nineteen forty-five christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents george and jenny refused to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned away to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed to have seen all five of the missing solder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out from the window of a car on the night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders that if she really did see the children that night it raised all sorts of questions for jenny and george namely who abducted them in. Where did they take them before. They could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked at a tourist. Stop between fayetteville where. The cider house was located and charleston. A city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed to have seen the missing solder children with her own eyes the morning after the fire not only had. She spotted them sheets. Served them all breakfast. Sadly information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled in had a florida license plate and soon the solders heard from different woman. One who worked at a charleston hotel. She'd helped check in a strange party about a week. After christmas eve. It was past midnight and the group consisted of four italian-speaking adults two men and two women and four children when the clerk tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile in began conversing amongst themselves in italian. Whatever they were saying it seemed they didn't want to be overheard. They refused to speak with her anymore. And the next morning they made sure to check out early. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day. She opened the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a lot to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happened to the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to georgia's mysterious past in italy. If we knew what they had said in italian sadly and for unknown reasons nothing came of this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months. Several witnesses pointed south toward florida. As it turns out. Jenny solders brother frank. Cheaper yanni lived in the sunshine state and for a time. She entertained the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why jenny thought this. Maybe she was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Hunch miami police combed through birth records to prove that all of the children living with cheap reality or actually his the records were in order and that path had turned out to be another dead end. But that wasn't the end of the mystery before too long. George and jenny uncovered another lead. Which once again suggested their sons and daughters were in florida. A missionary in the small coastal village of cortes recognize the solder kids from a picture he saw in the paper. He claimed that he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately georgian. Jenny dispatched private detective to investigate. But by the time he arrived the children were gone. Allegedly the detective confirmed that the children the missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true it suggested that there was some kind of dark cover up going on someone had made the solder children disappear. Before the pe- i could find them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years. Several more tips from people claiming they'd seen the solder children came through and george solder followed up on every single one. He traveled the country but each time. His hopes were dashed. And george never got any closer to finding his missing children. Still the family wasn't ready to give up the search so in one thousand nine hundred. Forty-seven almost two years. After the fire they appealed to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover wrote although i would like to be of service. The matter related appears to be of local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau. However the fbi didn't completely leave the solder family out in the cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities one might think the fayetteville police and fire departments would appreciate the help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting in the way with local fayetteville authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the sutter's didn't get help from the fbi but even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in nineteen forty seven jennie. George hired a private investigator named c. c tinsley teens lee dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fayetteville. Citizen will refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter. The salesman was a cosigner on the solders home insurance policy but when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened that the solders house would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months later. The house burned to the ground. Just as he said it would all certainly makes peter look suspicious however the fayetteville police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him it seemed. The local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was two prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which had ruled that the sutter fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself a payout if the fire wasn't accidental than it seemed downright farris that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinsley couldn't find any indication that peter had set the fire himself but he had another lead in lonnie johnson. The man who robbed the solder house and cut their phone line allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said that he was quote getting tired of taking the rap for those people at fayetteville. That wasn't much to go off of. But the statement suggested that lonnie was in league with some quote people at fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person had fayetteville was peter who else to to gain as much as he did. the problem. this alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley couldn't find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they'd set the fire or kidnapped the missing children so that detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire. Chief fj morris and under pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claim that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the solder family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claimed that he buried the heart in dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say. The least george and jenny solder wouldn't be satisfied until they could dig up this heart in see it for themselves but i. Cc teens -ly arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site. Once they arrived. The chief pointed out where he buried the box they dug until they found it. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like it took any tourney to uncover and when tinsley finally opened it up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley couldn't tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the organ inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. It was a fake and not even a very convincing one. The liver didn't have a trace of burn marks on it. Rumor has it that chief. Morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden the beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put in into the investigation once and for all he thought that if the solder family found proof that the children had perished in the fire they finally be able to move on. But if that was chief marris's goal it only showed how much he'd underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any lengths to discover what had happened to their children after the beef liver debacle that continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty seven. George was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart skip a beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. He'd know her anywhere as he stared at the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young daughter he made it all the way to manhattan and track down the child school but when he arrived they didn't let him see the little girl. Perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george solder was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dead end. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jennie george still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august nineteen forty-nine. The solders hired a pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. B hunter to go over the site with a fine tooth comb. Hunters first step was to excavate the lot which has since been covered over once the pathologist had dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one of their children met a fiery death. This episode is brought to you by progressive progressive. Has you covered when it comes to car. Insurance starting with built in savings like discounts for being a safe driver. You can also say when you start your quote online or have multiple vehicles on your policy in fact drivers who switch and save with progressive. Save over seven hundred and fifty dollars on average started quote online and see all the discounts for yourself visit progressive dot com today. National annual average auto insurance savings by new customers surveyed in two thousand nineteen potential savings will vary discounts vary and are not available in all states and situations. This episode is brought to you by the twenty twenty one. Toyota venza say you're a toyota venza driver and you're passionate about technology. The venza is designed with everything. You need when you need it most surround yourself with the latest tech including available twelve point three inch touchscreen so you can easily access all of your apps maps and music speaking of music. The toyota venza also comes with an available nine speaker. Jbl audio system complete with sub woofer amplifier usb and auxiliary ports plus bluetooth connectivity with standard. All wheel drive a hybrid powertrain and available head up display. You can gear up in style. Introducing the toyota venza learn more at toyota dot com slash venza toyota. Let's go places now back to the story for years. The solder families searched for evidence of what had happened to their five missing children and then finally in august nineteen forty nine. They found a somber clue human remains specifically but thala gist oscar. Hunter found the shards of four vertebrae all from the same body. And this time the bones were undeniably from person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle. Except there was something suspicious about the backbones. They didn't have any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see anna burn victim. This made it unlikely that the vertebrae belong to any of the solder children. To make sure dr hunter sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington dc for further analysis the report that came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen. Likely too young for the backbones to be his. The report did allow that in rare cases. A fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologists hypothesized that they must have been present in the dirt that george had added to the site to create the memorial. That begs the question of where exactly george got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand will either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston. West virginia extensively. These were to determine whether anything had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintain that they done everything they could for the solders. Furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence is the reason they were unwilling to devote any more resources to the probe. This seem privy incredible. Given the startling number of tips twists and witnesses who had come forward since the fire perhaps the authorities were just eager to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mysteries solved. Whatever the reason in nineteen fifty the state of west virginia close the inquiry for good both the governor and the state police superintendent told the solders in no uncertain terms that their case was quote hopeless. It seemed like the saudis had exhausted all possible avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities. Were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the sada's made one last ditch attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts. They decided to crowdsource their investigation. This was the nineteen fifties so they couldn't exactly post the details of the case online but they did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties. Jenny and george solder paid to have a billboard erected along route sixteen near fayetteville at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped. Martyred or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from oldest to youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. The sada's laid out their belief that the fire was started intentionally and the children survived the blaze. The billboard also suggested that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jenny and george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information when that produced no results they doubled it to ten thousand dollars as far as the saudis were concerned. No price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went up potential clues trickled in for example. The sada's received a letter from a woman in missouri. She claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint louis then patron at a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation overheard regarding christmasy fire in west virginia. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven. A woman from houston reached out to report that she'd overheard a drunken young man claiming to be louis solder. Who would then be thirty one years old. By this time. George was in his early seventies and in failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children. So with the help of his son-in-law he set off on the long drive to texas however when they finally arrived the woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet. In any any case the trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste. Even without the woman's help george and his son-in-law managed to track down the man she'd mentioned the one who had allegedly claim to be louis solder as it turned out there was more to the story. This lewis had a brother. Perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough. They agreed to speak with george but they firmly denied that they were lewis and maurice solder their hopes dashed yet again. George and his son-in-law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in a two thousand thirteen interview with the charleston. Gazette she said. I think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys and he'd made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those were his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger maybe someone had threatened them or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted joke. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis sada's possible whereabouts one day in nineteen sixty eight. Jenny picked up the mail to find a very strange letter. It was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by bazaar message. I love brother frankie. Little boys a nine zero one three two or thirty five. Needless to say jenny was shocked to think that after twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well somewhere or at least that he'd survived the fire. The implications were staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to compare all of nine year old louis features match up with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair. The long straight knows the upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the saudis to dispatch yet another private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from the detective. Again it's unclear. What happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or you might have just taken the money and run jenny. In george never found out what happened to the investigator and with georgia's hell still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard who might trigger some new piece of information. Sadly it didn't george died in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny followed him to the grave. Twenty years later between the billboard and the private investigators the saudis reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives to searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the sutter family continue to seek out answers their efforts coupled with amateur online inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied that the mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear. the official reports. Don't tell the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with par three of the mystery of the disappearance of the solder children for more information on the solder house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian magazine article. The children who went up in smoke by karen abbott extremely helpful to our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all other spotify originals from park asked for free on spotify. Cnx time and remember never take. We don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries is a spotify original from podcast. It is executive produced by max and ron cutler. Sound design by. Dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by ninety okla goo with writing assistance by angela. Jorgensen and jelly audie magoo fact checking by claire cronin and research by brad. Klein and brian pizzas unexplained mysteries. Stars molly brandenburg and richard rosner.

jenny george jenny solder Jenny lonnie johnson fayetteville Fj morris George sada lonnie peter george solder tinsley Jennie venza giannis toyota fbi
The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

Political Scandals

39:47 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

"Forty two year old jenny solder watched as the flames licked against singe flesh burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully set by none other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used every cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or doing something even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us after a devastating fire on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. The sutter family desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they'd lost their house and their five children. But jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because jenny george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the latter that had gone missing on the night of the fire. They could have used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs. If they'd been able to locate it later someone found a ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in a ditch. The solders never learned why it was moved or who had done it without the ladder george. His sons had tried to use their to coal trucks to climb into the house and rescue the trapped children but lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all of a witness claimed that he saw man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of hooks and ropes. That can be used to remove an engine from a car. Thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as it turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night. Lonnie also admitted to cutting the solders phone line. Just thirty minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jennie george. To believe that someone maybe lani had intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft if he was capable of that are didn't seem like too far leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonnie confessed that he wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he'd lit the flames. The sada's couldn't even prove the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in and they seemingly confirmed george and jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past a solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed someone had intentionally set the slaughterhouse. Aflame perhaps using molotov cocktail or another explosive. If true this meant that their children hadn't died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they returned to the site turned memorial a few months later it was a somber moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why her older siblings and blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly not a toy. It was an olive green. Hard cylindrical rubber object. After examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof and it was consistent with the loud thump and rolling sound. That woke jenny up in the middle of the night in short lonnie johnson's suspicious behavior. The napalm bomb and the lack of human remains may the solders. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five children. Jenny conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters had turned to ash all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere but with the stakes so high. She couldn't only rely her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther to confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce a human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned bodies a two thousand degrees for two hours bone still remained since the blaze that had destroyed. The sutter home had only burned for forty five minutes at the most. It was virtually impossible that it had reached the extreme heat of closed crematorium so it seemed highly unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested on the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze had destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The otherwise tragic news was music to jennings ears. She took it as even more proof that our children couldn't have been in their house when it burned to the ground. By this point her husband. George was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up. Information pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. This episode is brought to you. By feeding america as we approached the holidays more families will turn to food banks more than ever before many for the first time into with hunger. Disproportionately affecting communities of color it remains an ongoing and vital issue as the largest hunger relief organization in the us. Feeding america is dedicated to ending hunger through a nationwide network of food banks. Hunger may seem like a problem too big or too invisible to solve but together we can help ensure that our communities have enough to eat. Just one dollar helps provide at least ten meals to families in neighbors in need. See how you can help this holiday season by donating volunteering or advocating at feeding america dot. Org slash hope episode is brought to you by normal now a campaign raising awareness about electric vehicles. Here's a fun fact in the early two thousands. Podcasts were called audio blogs at first people thought they seem strange but never catch on but now people listen to them. All over the world just like podcasts. Electric cars are normal now. They can handle long distances. So you can drive just about anywhere you wanna go. Plus they charge faster than ever and there are lots more charging stations around than you might think. Not only are they. Normal they even come with a few perks. Potentially saving you money. There are lots of affordable models and they tend to need less routine maintenance so normal is looking even better electric cars. They're normal now. Learn more at normal now dot com now back to the story. Officially a nineteen forty-five christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents george. Jenny refused to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned away to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed to have seen all five of the missing solder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out from the window of a car on the night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders that if she really did see the children that night it raised all sorts of questions for jenny and george namely who abducted them in. Where did they take them before. They could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked at a tourist stop between fayetteville. Sod house was located and charleston. A city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed to have seen the missing side or children with our own eyes the morning after the fire. Not only had. She spotted them. She'd serve them breakfast sadly she didn't have any information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled in had a florida license plate and soon the sada's heard from different woman one who worked at a charleston hotel. She'd helped check in a strange party about a week. After christmas eve. It was past midnight and the group consisted of four million speaking adults two men and two women and four children when the clerk tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile in began conversing amongst themselves in italian. they were saying it seemed. They didn't want to be overheard. They refused to speak with her anymore. And the next morning they made sure to check out early. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day she the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a lot to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happened to the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to georgia's mysterious past in italy. If we knew what they had said in italian sadly and for unknown reasons nothing came this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months. Several witnesses pointed south toward florida as it turned out. Jenny sada's brother frank. Cheap yanni lived in the sunshine state and for a time. She entertained the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why jenny thought this. Maybe she was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Hunch miami police comb through birth records to prove that all of the children living with cheap prianti or actually his the records were in order and that path had turned out to be another dead end. But that wasn't the end of the mystery before too. Long georgian jenny uncovered feed which once again suggested their sons and daughters. Were in florida. A missionary in the small coastal village of cortez. Decider kids from picture he saw in the paper. He claimed that he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately georgian. Jenny dispatched a private detective to investigate but by the time he arrived the children were gone. Allegedly the detective confirmed that the children the missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true it's adjusted that there was some kind of dark cover up going on someone had made the solder children disappear before the pe- i could find them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years past several more tips from people claiming they'd seen the solder children came through and george solder followed up on every single one. He traveled the country but each time. His hopes were dashed. And george never got any closer to finding his missing children. Still the family wasn't ready to give up the search so in nineteen forty seven almost two years after the fire they appealed to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them a response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover wrote although i would like to service the matter. Related appears to be a local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau however the f. b. i. didn't completely leave the solder family out in the cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities. One might think the fayetteville police and fire departments would appreciate the help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting in the way with local fayetteville authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the didn't get help from the fbi but even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in nineteen. Forty seven. jennie. George hired a private investigator named cc. Tinsley tinsley dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fayetteville. Citizen will refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter. The salesman was a cosigner on the sutter's home insurance policy. But when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened that the house would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months later. The house burned to the ground just as he said it would. All that certainly makes. Peter look suspicious however the fayetteville police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him it seemed. The local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was too prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which had ruled that the sutter fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself a payout if the fire wasn't accidental then it seemed downright nefarious that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinsley couldn't find any indication that peter had set the fire himself but he had another lead in lonnie johnson. The man who had robbed the solder house and cut their phone line allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said that he was quote getting tired of taking the rap for those people at fayetteville. That wasn't much to go off of. But the statement suggested that lonnie was in league with some quote people at fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person had fayetteville was peter who else to gain as much as he did. The problem. this alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley couldn't find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they'd set the fire or kidnap the missing children so the detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire chief. Fj and under pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claim that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the solder family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claimed that he buried the heart in a dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say the least george jenny solder wouldn't be satisfied until they could dig up this heart in see it for themselves but i see see tinsley arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site once they arrived. The chief pointed out where he buried the box they dug until they found it. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like took any turn eighty to uncover and wen tinsley finally opened it up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley couldn't tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the oregon inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. It was a fake and not even a very convincing one. The liver didn't have a trace of burn marks on it. Rumor has it that chief. Morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden the beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put an end to the investigation once and for all he thought that if the solder family found proof that the children had perished in the fire they finally be able to move on. But if that was chief marris's goal it only showed how much he'd underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any lengths to discover what had happened to their children after the beef liver debacle. They continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty seven. George was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart skip a beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. He'd know her anywhere as he stared at the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young daughter. He made it all the way to manhattan and tracked down the child's school but when he arrived they didn't let him see the little girl. Perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george saadeh was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dead end. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jenny and george still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august nineteen forty nine. The solders hired a pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. B hunter to go over the site with a fine tooth comb. Hunters first step was to excavate the lot which has since been covered over once the pathologist had dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one if their children met a fiery death. This episode is brought to you by. The makers of clark's disinfecting products. These days. when you're on the go it's important to leave the outside outside. Trust clorox disinfecting wipes to help. Keep your home clean and safer from the phones. We never leave behind two other high touch surfaces like door handles and light switches clorox disinfecting wipes kill ninety nine point nine percent of viruses and bacteria including covid nineteen virus when used as directed on hard nonporous porous surfaces. So you can feel confident that you are helping to keep your home clean and disinfected when it counts. Trust clorox learn more at click's dot com pseudomonas salmonella and influenza virus type a to kill sars cova to on hard. Nonporous surfaces uses directed. 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The solder families searched for evidence of what had happened to their five missing children. And then finally in august nineteen forty-nine they found a somber clue human remains specifically but thala gist oscar. Hunter found the shards of four vertebrae all from the same body. And this time the bones were undeniably from person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle. Except there was something suspicious about the backbones. They didn't have any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see on a burn victim. This made it unlikely that the vertebrae belong to any of the solder children to make sure dr hunters sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington dc for further analysis the report that came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen. Likely too young for the backbones to be his. The report did allow that in rare cases. A fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of a sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologists hypothesized that they must have been present in the dirt that george had added to the site to create the memorial. That beg the question of where exactly george got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston. West virginia extensively. These were to determine whether anything had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintained that. They've done everything they could for. The sutter's furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence is the reason they were unwilling to devote any more resources to the probe. This seemed pretty incredible. Given the startling number of tips twists and witnesses who had come forward since the fire perhaps the authorities were just eager to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mystery solved whatever the reason in one thousand nine hundred fifty. The state of west virginia closed the inquiry for good. Both the governor and the state police superintendent told the solders in no uncertain terms that their case was quote hopeless. It seemed like the saudis had exhausted all possible avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities. Were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the solders made one last ditch attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts. They decided to crowd source their investigation. This was the nineteen fifties. So i couldn't exactly post the details of the case online. But they did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties jennie. George solder paid to have a billboard erected along route sixteen near fan fill at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped murdered or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from oldest to youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. The solders laid out their belief that the fire was started. Intentionally and children survived the blaze. The billboard also suggested that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jenny and george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information when that produced no results. They doubled it to ten thousand dollars. As far as the solders were concerned. No price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went up potential clues trickled in for example the solders received a letter from a woman in missouri. She claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint louis then a patron at a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation. They'd overheard regarding a christmas eve. Fire in west virginia. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven. A woman from houston reached out to report that she'd overheard a drunken young man claiming to be louis solder. Who would then be thirty one years old. By this time. George was in his early seventies and in failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children. So with the help of his son-in-law he set off on the long drive to texas however when they finally arrived the woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet. In any case the trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste even without the woman's help george and his son-in-law managed to track down the man she'd mentioned the one who had allegedly claimed to be louis solder as it turned out there was more to the story. This lewis had a brother. Perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough. They agree to speak with george but they firmly denied that they were lewis and maurice solder their hopes dashed yet again. George and his son-in-law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in two thousand thirteen interview with the charleston gazette. She said i think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys and if he'd made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those were his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger. Maybe someone had threatened them or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted joke. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis solders possible whereabouts one day in nineteen sixty eight. Jenny picked up the mail to find a very strange letter. It was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by bazaar message. I love brother frankie. Little boys eight nine zero one three two or thirty five. Needless to say jenny was shocked to think that after twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well somewhere or at least that he'd survived the fire. The implications are staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to compare all of nine year old louis features up with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair belong straight knows. The upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the saudis dispatch yet another private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from the detective again. It's unclear what happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or he might have just taken. The solder is money and run. Jenny and george never found out what happened to the investigator. And with georgia's health still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard hoping that it might trigger some new piece of information. Sadly it didn't george died in nineteen sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny followed him to the grave. Twenty years later between the billboard and the private investigators the solders reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in nineteen eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the sutter family. Continue to seek out. Answers their efforts coupled with amateur inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children. Perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied. The mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear the official reports. Don't tell the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with part three of the mystery of the disappearance of the solder children for more information on the solder house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian magazine article. The children who went up in smoke by karen abbott extremely helpful to our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from park asked for free on spotify. Cnx time in remember. Never take we. Don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries a spotify original from cast. It is executive produced. By max and ron cutler. Sound design by. Dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by noni okla goo with writing assistance by angela. Jorgensen and avi geli audie magoo fact checking by claire cronin and research by brad. Klein and brian pizzas unexplained mysteries. Stars molly brandenburg and richard rosner.

jenny george Lonnie johnson Jenny jenny solder fayetteville Fj morris lonnie peter tinsley George Jennie sada jenny george sutter jennie george george namely america
The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

Con Artists

39:38 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

"Forty two year old. Jenny is the flames licked against singe flesh. Burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully set by none other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used every cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or doing something even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us after a devastating fire on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. The sutter family desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they'd lost their house and their five children. But jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because jennie george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the latter that had gone missing on the night of the fire. They could have used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs. If they'd been able to locate it later someone found a ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in a ditch. The solders never learned why it was moved or who had done it without the ladder george. His sons had tried to use their to coal trucks to climb into the house and rescue the trapped children but lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all of a witness claimed that he saw man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of hooks and ropes. That can be used to remove an engine from a car. Thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as it turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night. Lonnie also admitted to cutting the solders phone line. Just thirty minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jennie george. To believe that someone maybe lani had intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft if he was capable of that are didn't seem like too far leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonnie confessed that he wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he'd lit the flames. The sada's couldn't even prove the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in and they seemingly confirmed george and jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past a solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed someone had intentionally set the slaughterhouse. Aflame perhaps using molotov cocktail or another explosive true. This meant that their children hadn't died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they returned to the site turned memorial a few months later it was a somber moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why her older siblings had disappeared. Blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly. not a toy. It was an olive green hard cylindrical rubber object. After examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof and it was consistent with the loud thump and rolling sound. That woke jenny up in the middle of the night in short lonnie johnson's suspicious behavior. The napalm bomb and the lack of human remains may the solders. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five children. Jenny conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters had turned to ash all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere but with the stakes so high. She couldn't only rely her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther to confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce a human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned bodies a two thousand degrees for two hours bone still remained since the blaze that had destroyed. The sutter home had only burned for forty five minutes at the most. It was virtually impossible that it had reached the extreme heat of closed crematorium so it seemed highly unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested on the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze had destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The otherwise tragic news was music to jennings ears. She took it as even more proof that our children couldn't have been in their house when it burned to the ground. By this point her husband. George was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up. Information pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. This episode is brought to you. By feeding america as we approached the holidays more families will turn to food banks more than ever before many for the first time into with hunger. Disproportionately affecting communities of color it remains an ongoing and vital issue as the largest hunger relief organization in the us. Feeding america is dedicated to ending hunger through a nationwide network of food banks. Hunger may seem like a problem too big or too invisible to solve but together we can help ensure that our communities have enough to eat just one dollar has provide at least ten meals to families in neighbors in need. See how you can help this holiday season by donating volunteering or advocating at feeding america dot. Org slash hope. This episode is brought to you by progressive progressive. Has you covered when it comes to car. Insurance starting with built in savings like discounts for being a safe driver. You can also say when you start your quote online or have multiple vehicles on your policy in fact drivers who switch and save with progressive. Save over seven hundred and fifty dollars on average started quote online and see all the discounts for yourself visit progressive dot com today national annual average auto insurance savings by new customers surveyed in two thousand nineteen potential savings will vary discounts vary and are not available in all states and situations now back to the story. Officially a nineteen forty-five christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents george. Jenny refused to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned away to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed to have seen all five of the missing solder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out from the window of a car on the night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders that if she really did see the children that night it raised all sorts of questions for jenny and george namely who abducted them in. Did they take them before they could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked at a tourist. Stop between fayetteville where the slaughterhouse was located and charleston a city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed to have seen the missing cider children with our own eyes the morning after the fire not only had. She spotted them. She'd serve them all breakfast. Sadly she didn't have any information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled in had a florida license plate and the solders heard from different woman. One who worked at a charleston hotel. She'd helped check in a strange party about a week. After christmas eve. It was past midnight and the group consisted of four at talian speaking adults. Two men and two women and four children when the clerk tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile in began conversing amongst themselves in italian. Whatever they were saying it seemed they didn't want to be overheard. They refuse to speak with her anymore and the next morning they made sure to check out early. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day. She opened the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a lot to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happened to the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to georgia's mysterious past in italy. If only we knew what they had said in italian sadly and for unknown reasons nothing came of this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months. Several witnesses pointed south toward florida. As it turned out. jenny sada's brother frank. Cheaper yanni lived in the sunshine state and for a time. She entertained the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why jenny thought this. Maybe she was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Hunch miami police combed through birth records to prove that all of the children living with cheap brioni or actually his. The records were in order and path had turned out to be another dead end. But that wasn't the end of the mystery before too. Long georgian jenny uncovered another lead. Which once again suggested their sons and daughters. Were in florida a missionary in the small coastal village of cortez reconized a solder kids from a picture he saw in the paper. He claimed he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately georgian. Jenny dispatched a private detective to investigate but by the time he arrived the children were gone. Allegedly the detective confirmed that the children missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true it suggested that there was some kind of dark cover up going on. Someone had made the solder children disappear before the pi could find them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years. Several more tips from people claiming they'd seen the solder children came through and george solder followed up on every single one. He traveled the country but each time. His hopes were dashed. And george never got any closer to finding his missing children. Still the family wasn't ready to give up the search so in nineteen forty seven almost two years after the fire they appealed to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them a response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover wrote although i would like to be a service. The matter related appears to be of local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau however the f. b. i. didn't completely leave the solder family out in the cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities one might think the fayetteville police and fire departments will appreciate the help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting in the way with local fayetteville authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the sada's didn't get help from the fbi but even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in nineteen forty seven jennie. George hired a private investigator named see tinsley tinsley dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fayetteville. Citizen will refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter. The salesman was a cosigner on the solders home insurance policy but when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened that the house would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months later. The house burned to the ground just as he said it would. All that certainly makes. Peter look suspicious however the fayetteville police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him it seemed. The local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which had ruled that the sutter fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself payout if the fire wasn't accidental then it seemed downright nefarious that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinsley couldn't find any indication that peter had set the fire himself but he had another lead in lonnie johnson. The man who robbed the solder house and cut their phone line allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said that he was quote getting tired of taking the rap for those people at fayetteville. That wasn't much to go off of. But the statement suggested that lonnie was in league with some quote people at fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person had fayetteville was peter who else to gain as much as he did. The problem. this alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley couldn't find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they'd set the fire or kidnapped the missing children so the detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire. Chief fj morris and under pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claimed that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the solder family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claim that he buried the heart in a dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say the least george jenny solder be satisfied until they could dig up this heart in see it for themselves but i see see tinsley arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site. Once they arrived the chief pointed out where he buried the box they dug until they found it. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like it took any turn ity to uncover and when tinsley finally opened up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley couldn't tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the oregon inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. It was a fake and not even a very convincing one. The liver didn't have a trace of burn marks on it. Rumor has it that chief. Morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden the beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put an end to the investigation once and for all he thought that if the solder family found proof that the children had perished in the fire. They'd finally be able to move on. But if that was chief marris's goal it only showed how much he'd underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any lengths to discover what had happened to their children after the beef liver debacle. They continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty. Seven georgia was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart skip a beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. He'd know her anywhere as he stared at the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young daughter. He made it all the way to manhattan and track down the child's school but when he arrived they didn't let him see the little girl. Perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george saadeh was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dead end. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jenny and george still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august nineteen forty nine. The solders hired a pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. B hunter to go over the site with a fine tooth comb. Hunters first step was to excavate the lot which has since been covered over once the pathologist had dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one of their children met a fiery death. This episode is brought to you by the twenty twenty one toyota venza say or toyota venza driver. And you're passionate about technology. The venza is designed with everything. You need when you need it most surround yourself with the latest tech including an available twelve point three inch touchscreen so you can easily access all of your apps maps and music speaking of music. The toyota venza also comes with an available nine speaker. Jbl audio system complete with a sub woofer amplifier usb and auxiliary ports plus bluetooth connectivity with standard all wheel drive a hybrid powertrain and an available head up display. You can gear up and style. Introducing the toyota venza learn more at toyota dot com slash venza toyota. Let's go places. This episode is brought to you by normal now. A campaign raising awareness about electric vehicles. Here's a fun fact in the early two thousands. Podcasts were called audio blogs at first people thought they seem strange. Never catch on but now people listen to them. All over the world just like podcasts. Electric cars are normal now. They can handle long distances. So you can drive just about anywhere you wanna go. Plus they charge faster than ever and there are lots more charging stations around than you might think. Not only are they. Normal they even come with a few perks. Potentially saving you money. There are lots of affordable models and they tend to need bless routine maintenance so normal is looking even better electric cars. They're normal now. Learn more at normal now dot com now back to the story for years. The solder families searched for evidence of what had happened to their five missing children and then finally in august nineteen forty nine. They found a somber clue human remains specifically pathologist oscar. Hunter found the shards of four vertebrae all from the same body. And this time the bones were undeniably from person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle. Except there was something suspicious about the backbones. They didn't have any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see on a burn victim. This made it unlikely that the vertebrae belong to any of the sod children. To make sure. Dr hunter sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington dc for further analysis. The report that came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen likely to young for the backbones to be his. The report did allow that. In rare cases a fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of a sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologists hypothesized that they must have been present in the dirt that george had added to the site to create the memorial. That begs the question of where exactly george got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston west virginia. Ostensibly these were to determine whether anything had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintain that they done everything they could for the solders. Furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence is the reason they were unwilling to devote any more resources to the probe. This seemed pretty incredible. Given the startling number of tips twists and witnesses who had come forward since the perhaps the authorities were just eager to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mystery solved whatever the reason in nineteen fifty. The state of west virginia closed the inquiry for good. Both the governor and the state police superintendent told the solders in no uncertain terms that their case was quote hopeless. It seemed like the had exhausted all possible. Avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities. Were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the solders made one last ditch attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts. They decided to crowd source their investigation. This was the nineteen fifties so they couldn't exactly post the details of the case online but they did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties. Jennie george. Solder paid to have a billboard erected along route sixteen near fan ville at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped murdered or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from oldest to youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. The solders laid out their belief that the fire was started intentionally and the children survived the blaze. The billboard added that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jenny and george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information when that produced no results. They doubled it to ten thousand dollars. As far as the solders were concerned. No price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went up potential clues trickled in for example the sanders received a letter from a woman in missouri. She claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint louis then at patron at a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation. They'd overheard regarding a christmas eve. Fire in west. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven. A woman from houston reached out to report that she'd overheard a drunken young man claiming to be louis solder who then be thirty one years old by this time george was in his early seventy s and in failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children. So with the help of his son-in-law he set off on the long drive to texas however when they finally arrived the woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet. In any case the trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste even without the woman's help george and his son-in-law managed to track down the man she'd mentioned the one who had allegedly claimed to be louis solder as it turned out there was more to the story. This lewis had a brother. Perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough. They agreed to speak with george but they firmly denied that they were lewis and maurice solder their hopes dashed yet again. George and his son-in-law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in a two thousand thirteen interview with the charleston. Gazette she said. I think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys. And if it made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger. Maybe someone had threatened them or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted joke. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis solders possible whereabouts one day in one thousand nine hundred sixty eight. Jenny picked up the mail to find a very strange letter was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was of a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by bazaar message. I love brother frankie. Little boys a nine zero one three two or thirty five. Needless to say jenny was shocked to think that after twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well or at least that he'd survived the fire the implications were staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to compare all of nine year. Old louis xv features match up with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair. The long straight knows the upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the saudis to dispatch yet another private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from the detective again. It's unclear what happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or you might have just taken. The solder is money and run. Jenny and george never found out what happened to the investigator. And with georgia's health still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard hoping that might trigger some new piece of information. sadly it didn't george died in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny followed him to the grave. Twenty years later between the billboard and the private investigators the solders reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives to searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in nineteen eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the solder family continue to seek out answers their efforts coupled with amateur online inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied that the mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear the official reports. Don't tell the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with part three of the mystery of the disappearance of the solder children for more information on the solder house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian magazine article. The children who went up in smoke by karen abbott extremely helpful to our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all other spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. Cnx time in remember. Never take we. Don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries is a spotify original. From podcast it is executive produced. By max ron cutler sound design by dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by ninety okla goo with writing assistance by angela. Johnson and via geli audie magoo. Fact checking by claire. Cronin and research by brad. Klein and brian peaches unexplained mysteries stars. Molly brandenburg and richard rosner.

jenny george Jenny lonnie johnson jennie george fayetteville Fj morris lonnie tinsley peter Jennie jenny solder George sada venza toyota george namely
The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

Cults

39:59 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

"Forty two year old jenny solder watched as the flames licked against singe flesh burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully set by none other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used every cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or something. Even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by audi. The holidays are here. And it's time to get started on those wishlist but this year may be swapped the fuzzy slippers cashmere sweaters for something more exhilarating like the cutting edge available virtual cockpit imi my systems and the confidence of quattro all wheel drive which can only be experienced behind the wheel of a new audi and some throats yo wishlist at the season of audi sales event happening now after a devastating fire on christmas eve. Nineteen forty-five the sutter family desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they'd lost their house and their five children. But jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because jennie george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the latter that had gone missing on the night of the fire. They could have used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs. If they'd been able to locate it later someone found a ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in a ditch. The solders never learned why it was moved or who had done it without the ladder. George in his sons had tried to use their to coal trucks to climb into the house and rescue the trap children but lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all a witness claimed that he saw a man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of hooks and ropes. That can be used to remove an engine from a car. The thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night. Lonnie also admitted to cutting the solders phone line. Just thirty minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jennie george. To believe that someone may be lonnie head intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft if he was capable of that arson didn't seem like too far leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonny confessed that he wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he'd lit the flames. The sada's couldn't even prove the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in and they seemingly confirmed george and jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past a solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed someone had intentionally set the slaughterhouse. Aflame perhaps using a molotov cocktail or another explosive. If true this meant that their children hadn't died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they return to the site turned memorial a few months later it was a somber moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why her older siblings had disappeared. Blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly. not a toy. It was an olive green hard cylindrical rubber object. After examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof and it was consistent with the loud thump and rolling sound. That woke jenny up in the middle of the night. In short lonnie johnson's suspicious behavior than napalm bomb and the lack of human remains made the solders. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five children. Jenny conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters had turned to ash all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere but with the stakes so high she couldn't only rely on her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther to confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce a human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned bodies two thousand degrees for two hours bone still remained since the blaze that had destroyed the sutter home had only for forty five minutes at the most. It was virtually impossible that it had reached the extreme heat of a closed crematorium so seemed highly. Unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested on the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze had destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The tragic news was music to giannis ears. She took it as even more proof that our children couldn't have been in their house when it burned to the ground. By this point her husband. George was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up. Information pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. This episode is brought to you. By feeding america as we approached the holidays more families will turn to food banks more than ever before many for the first time and with hunger disproportionately affecting communities of color it remains an ongoing and vital issue as the largest hunger relief organization in the us. Feeding america is dedicated to ending hunger through a nationwide network of food banks. Hunger may seem like a problem too big or too invisible to solve but together we can help ensure that our communities have enough to eat. Just one dollar helps provide at least ten meals to families and neighbors in need. See how you can help this holiday season by donating volunteering for advocating at feeding america dot org slash hope. It's been a while since i've told you about best means the funding challenging match three puzzle game. I love playing. It's a casual game that anybody can play. I'm very proud. Because i've made it all the way up to level six hundred seventy i even past vanessa. I'm gonna catch you. We'll see about that while best. Phoenix says a simple concept behind it involves a lot of strategies. Some of the levels are easy than others seem impossible but i really like how they systematically add extra chances after many failed attempts at conquering difficult puzzle. I often play it when i need to decompress or while i wait in line at the grocery store. I usually sneak in a game during a recording. Break the bottom line is with over five thousand puzzles on best fiends. I'm never bored. Download best fiends free today on the apple app store or google play. That's friends without the our best fiends. Now back to the story officially a nineteen forty five. Christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents george and jenny refused to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned away to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed to have seen all five of the missing sadder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out from the window of a car on the night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders that if she really did see the children that night it raised all sorts of questions for jenny and george namely who abducted them in. Where did they take them before. They could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked editors stop between fayetteville. Where the solder house was located and charleston a city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed to have seen the missing solder children with her own is the morning after the fire. not only had. She spotted them. She'd served them all breakfast. Sadly she didn't have any information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled in had a florida license plate and soon the sada's heard from a different woman. One who worked at a charleston hotel. She'd helped check in a strange party about a week. after christmas. it was past midnight and the group consisted of four italian speaking adults. Two men and two women and four children when the clerk tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile in began conversing amongst themselves in italian. whatever they were saying it seemed. They didn't want to be overheard. They refuse to speak with her anymore. And the next morning they made sure to check out early. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day. She opened the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a lot to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happened to the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to georgia's mysterious past in italy. If only we knew what they had sad in italian sadly and for unknown reasons nothing came of this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months. Several witnesses pointed south toward florida. As it turned out. Jenny solders brother frank. Cheaper yanni lived in the sunshine state and for a time. She entertained the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why jenny thought this. Maybe she was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Miami police combed through birth records to prove that all of the children living with cheap brioni or actually his the records were in order and that path had turned out to be another dead end. Wasn't the end of the mystery before too long. George and jenny uncovered another lead which once again suggested their sons and daughters. Were in florida a missionary in the small coastal village of cortez recognized assad kids from a picture he saw in the paper. He claimed that he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately george. Jenny dispatched a private detective to investigate but by the time he arrived the children were gone. Allegedly the detective confirmed that the children the missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true. It's suggested that there was some kind of dark cover up going on. Someone had made the solder children disappear before the pe- i could find them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years. Several more tips from people claiming they'd seen the solder children came through and george solder followed up on every single one. He traveled the country but each time. His hopes were dashed in. George never got any closer to finding his missing children still. The family wasn't ready to give up the search so in one thousand nine hundred forty seven almost two years after the fire they appealed to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them a response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover wrote although i would like to be of service. The matter related appears to be of local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau. However the fbi didn't completely leave the solder family cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities. One might think the fayetteville police and fire departments with pre sheet. The help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting in the way with local advil authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the sada's didn't get help from the fbi but even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in nineteen. Forty seven. jennie. George hired a private investigator named cc. Tinsley tinsley dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fayetteville citizen. We'll refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter. The salesman was a cosigner on the solders home insurance policy but when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened that the sada's house would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months later. The house burned to the ground just as he said it would. All that certainly makes. Peter look suspicious however the fed van police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him it seemed. The local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was too prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which had ruled that the sutter fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself a payout if the fire wasn't accidental than it seemed downright ferries that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinsley couldn't find any indication that peter had set the fire himself but he had another lead in lonnie johnson. The man who robbed the solder house and cut their phone line allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said that he was quote getting tired of taking the rap for those people at fayetteville. That wasn't much to go off of. But the statement suggested that lonnie was in league with some quote people at fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person in fayetteville was peter who else to gain as much as he did the problem. This alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley couldn't find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they'd set the fire or kidnap the missing children so that detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire. Chief fj morris and under pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claimed that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the solder family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claim that he buried the heart in a dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say. The least george and jenny solder wouldn't be satisfied until they could dig up this heart in see it for themselves but i see see tinsley arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site. Once they arrived. The chief pointed out where he'd buried the box they dug until they found it. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like it took any turn ity to uncover and when tinsley finally opened it up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley couldn't tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the oregon inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. it was a fake and not even a very convincing. one deliver. Didn't have a trace of burn marks on it. Rumor has it that chief morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden the beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put an end to the investigation once and for all he thought that if the solder family found proof that the children had perished in the fire. It finally be able to move on. But if that was chief morris's goal it only showed how much he'd underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any lengths to discover what had happened to their children after the beef liver debacle that continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty. Seven georgia was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart skip a beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. He'd know her anywhere as he stared at the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young daughter. He made it all the way to manhattan and track down the child's school but when he arrived they didn't let him see the little girl. Perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george solder was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dead end. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jenny and george still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august nineteen forty-nine the solders hired pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. B hunter to go over the site with a fine tooth comb. Hunters first step was to excavate the lot which had since been covered over once the pathologist had dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one of their children met a fiery death. This episode is brought to you by audi. The holidays are here again. And it's time to fill out those holiday wishlist but this year. Avoid the usual. Trappings set aside the fuzzy slippers and cashmere sweaters. And consider something a little more exhilarating like the feel of available nappa leather the cutting edge available virtual cockpit and emma my systems and the confidence of quattro all wheel drive all of which can only be experienced behind the wheel of a new audi and some through to your wishlist at the season of audi sales event happening now premeditated murder that surprise. Great insurance rates for your home car from state farm good surprise stay farm is always backed by something like evidence exhibit a state farm agents that are ready to help with personalized service. So you can customize your insurance exhibit being an award-winning mobile app to manage coverage a bills and five clamps exhibit see again so presently great rates were equally great service now that is an ironclad alibi like a good neighbor state farmers there so when you want the real deal go to state farm dot com now back to the story for years. The solder families searched for evidence of what had happened to their five missing children and then finally in august nineteen forty nine. A somber clue human remains specifically pathologists. Oscar hunter found the shards of four vertebrae all from the same body. And this time. The bones were undeniably from a person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle. Except there was something suspicious about the backbones. They didn't have any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see on a burn victim. This made it unlikely that the vertebrae belong to any of the solder children to make sure dr hunters sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington d. c. for further analysis the report that came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen. Likely too young for the backbones to be his. The report did allow that in rare cases. A fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologists hypothesized that they must have been present in the dirt that george had added to the site to create the memorial. That beg the question of where exactly george got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston. West virginia extensively. These were to determine whether anything had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintain that. They done everything they could for the solders. Furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence is the reason they were unwilling to devote any more resources to the probe. This seem pretty. Incredible given the startling number of tips twists and witnesses who had come forward since the fire perhaps the authorities were just eager to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mysteries solved. Whatever the reason in nineteen fifty. The state of west virginia closed the inquiry for good. Both governor and the state police superintendent told the solders in no uncertain terms that their case was quote. Hopeless like the sada's had exhausted all possible. Avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities. Were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the solders made one last ditch attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts. They decided to crowd source their investigation. This was the nineteen fifties so they couldn't exactly post the details of the case online but they did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties. Jennie george. Solder paid to have a billboard erected along route sixteen near fant ville at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped murdered or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from oldest to youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. The solders laid out their belief that the fire was started intentionally and the children survived the blaze. The billboard also suggested that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jennie george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information when that produced no results. They doubled it to ten thousand dollars as far as the saudis. Were concerned no price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went up potential clues trickled in for example the solders received a letter from a woman in missouri. She claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint louis then at patron at a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation. They overheard regarding christmasy fire in west virginia. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break in nineteen sixty seven. A woman from houston reached out to report that she overheard a drunken young man claiming to be louis. Solder who would then be thirty one years old. By this time. George was in his early seventies and in failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children. So with the help of his son in law he set off on the long drive to texas however when they finally arrived. The woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet. In any case the trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste even without the woman's help george and his son-in-law managed to track down the man she'd mentioned the one who had allegedly claimed to be louis solder as it turned out there was more to the story. This lewis had a brother. Perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough. They agreed to speak with george but they firmly denied that they were lewis and maury solder their hopes dashed yet again. George and his son-in-law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in two thousand thirteen interview was the charleston gazette. She said i think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys. And if it made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those were his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger. Maybe someone had threatened him or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted joke. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis sada's possible whereabouts one day in nineteen sixty eight. Jenny picked up the mail to find a very strange letter. It was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by a bizarre message. I love brother frankie. Little boys a nine zero one three two or five. Needless to say jenny was shocked to think that after twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well somewhere or at least that he'd survive the fire. The implications were staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to compare all of nine year old louis features match up with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair. The long straight knows the upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the saudis dispatch yet another private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from the detective again. It's unclear what happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or you might have just taken the money and run. Jenny and george never found out what happened to the investigator. And with georgia's health still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard hoping that it might trigger some new piece of information. Sadly it didn't george died in nineteen sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny followed him to the grave. Twenty years later between the billboard and the private investigators the solders reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives to searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the solder family continue to seek out answers their efforts coupled with amateur online inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied that the mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear. the official reports. Don't tell the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with par three of the mystery of the disappearance of the solder children for more information on the solder house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian article. The children who went up in smoke karen abbott extremely helpful. To our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals. From park asked for free on spotify. Cnx time in remember. Never take we. Don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries is a spotify original from podcast. It is executive produced by max and ron cutler. Sound design by. Dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro. Carly madden and travis. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by noni okwu lago with assistance by angela. Jorgensen and abby geli ati may goo fact checking by claire. Cronin and research by brad klein and brian beatrice unexplained mysteries stars molly. Brandenburg and richard rossner.

jenny jenny solder george jennie george Lonnie johnson Jenny Fj morris sada George lonnie tinsley fayetteville audi peter Jennie george solder america george namely
The Sodder Family Tragedy Pt. 2

Unexplained Mysteries

40:36 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy Pt. 2

"Forty two year old jenny solder watched as the flames licked against singe flesh burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully set by none other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used every cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or doing something even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us before this episode some news for all the believers out there about the return of special otherworldly visitor the mid rib is back with its juicy pork smothered and tangy barbecue sauce. The delicious sandwich with the reputation that precedes it. Because there's no other sandwich like it and that's what makes it the most important sandwich at the air available for a limited time at participating. Mcdonald's let's say you're toyota venza driver and you love scary movies real fem. Now say there's a horror film festival at a drive in movie. Theater starts in an hour. What do you as a film. Buff do well with the venza. Standard all wheel drive and available navigation. The only thing scarier than the movie will be how easy it was to get there on time. Introducing the toyota venza everything you need when you needed most learn more at toyota dot com slash venza toyota. Let's go places after a devastating fire on christmas eve. Nineteen forty-five the sutter family. Desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they lost their house and their five children. But jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the latter that had gone missing on the night of the fire. They could've used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs. If they'd been able to locate it later someone found a ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in ditch. The solders never learned why it was moved or who had done it without the ladder. George in his sons had tried to use their to cold trucks to climb into the house and rescue the trap children but lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all a witness claimed that he saw man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of hooks and ropes. That can be used to removing engine. From a car the thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as it turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night. Lonnie also admitted to cutting the solders phone line. Just thirty minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jennie george. To believe that someone may be lonnie head intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft if he was capable of that arson didn't seem like too far a leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonnie confessed that he wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he lit the flames. The sada's couldn't even prove the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in and they seemingly confirmed george and jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past. Assad solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed someone had intentionally set the slaughterhouse. Aflame perhaps using a molotov cocktail or another explosive. If true this meant that their children hadn't died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they returned to the site turned memorial a few months later it was a sombre moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why her older siblings had disappeared. Blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly. not a toy. It was an olive green hard cylindrical rubber object. After examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof. And it was consistent with the loud thump. Enrolling sound that woke jenny up in the middle of the night in short lonnie johnson suspicious behavior than napalm bomb and the lack of human remains made the solders. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five children. Jenny conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters had turned to ash all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere but with the stakes so high she couldn't only rely on her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther to confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce a human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned bodies two thousand degrees for two hours bones still remained since the blaze that had destroyed the sutter home had only burn for forty five minutes at the most. It was virtually impossible that it had reached the extreme heat of a closed crematorium so it seemed highly unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested on the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze had destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The otherwise tragic news was music to jen's ears. She took it as even more proof that her children couldn't have been in their house. When it burned to the ground by this point her husband. George was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up. Information pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. This episode is brought to you by feeding america as we approached the holidays. More families will turn to food banks more than ever before many for the first time into hunker disproportionately affecting communities of color. It remains an ongoing and vital issue as the largest hunger relief organization in the us. Feeding america is dedicated to ending hunger through a nationwide network of food banks. Hunger may seem like a problem too big or too invisible to solve but together we can help ensure that our communities have enough to eat. Just one dollar helps provide at least ten meals to families and neighbors in need. See how you can help this holiday season by donating volunteering or advocating at feeding america dot org slash hope. This episode is brought to you by the twenty twenty. One venza say your toyota venza driver. And you're passionate about technology. The venza is designed with everything. You need when you need it most surround yourself with the latest tech including and available twelve point three inch touchscreen so you can easily access all of your apps maps and music speaking of music. The toyota venza comes with an available nine speaker. Jbl audio system complete with a sub woofer amplifier usb and auxiliary ports plus bluetooth connectivity with standard. All wheel drive a hybrid powertrain and an available head up display. You can gear up and style. Introducing the toyota venza learn more at toyota dot com slash venza toyota. Let's go places now back to the story. Officially a nineteen forty-five christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents george and jenny refuse to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned away to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed to have seen all five of the missing solder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out from the window of a car on the night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders bit if she really did see the children that night. It raised all sorts of questions for jenny and george namely who abducted them in. Where did they take them before. They could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked at a tourist. Stop between fayetteville where the house was located in charleston. A city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed to have seen the missing solder children with her own is the morning after the fire. Not only had. She spotted them. She'd served them all breakfast. Sadly she didn't have any information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled in have florida license plate and soon the solders heard from a different woman. One who worked at a charleston hotel. She helped check in a strange party about a week. After christmas eve. It was past midnight and the group consisted of four italian speaking adults. Two men and two women and four children when the clerk tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile in began conversing amongst themselves in italian. whatever they were saying it seemed. They didn't want to be overheard. They refused to speak with her anymore. And the next morning they made sure to check out. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day. She opened the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a lot to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happen to the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to george mysterious past in italy. If only we knew what they had said in italian sadly and for unknown reasons nothing came of this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months. Several witnesses pointed south toward florida. As it turned out. Jenny solders brother frank. Cheaper onny lived in the sunshine state and for a time entertained the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why any thought this maybe she was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Hunch miami police comb through birth records to prove that all of the children living with cheap brioni or actually his the records were in order and that path. It turned out to be another dead end. But that wasn't the end of the mystery before too long. Georgian jenny uncovered another lead. Which once again suggested their sons and daughters were in florida. A missionary in the small coastal village of cortes recognized the solder kids from a picture he saw in the paper. He claimed that he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately georgian. Jenny dispatched a private detective to investigate but by the time he arrived the children were gone. Allegedly the detective confirmed that the children the missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true it suggested that there was some kind of dark cover up going on someone had made the solder children disappear. Before the pe- i could find them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years. Several more tips from people claiming they'd seen the solder children came through and george solder followed up on every single one. He traveled the but each time. His hopes were dashed. And george never got any closer to finding his missing children. Still the family wasn't ready to give up the search so in nineteen forty seven almost two years after the fire they appealed to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them a response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover wrote although i would like to be of service. The matter related appears to be of local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau however the f. b. i. didn't completely leave the solder family out in the cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities one might think the fayetteville police and fire departments would appreciate the help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting in the way with local fayetteville authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the solders didn't get help from the fbi but even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in nineteen forty seven. Jenny and george hired a private investigator named cc. Tinsley tinsley dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fayetteville. Citizen will refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter salesman was a cosigner on the solders home insurance policy but when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened that the solders house would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months later. The house burned to the ground just as he said it would. All that certainly makes. Peter look suspicious however the fayetteville police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him it seemed. The local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was too prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which had ruled that the sutter fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself a payout if the fire wasn't accidental than it seemed downright nefarious that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinsley couldn't find any indication that peter had set the fire himself but he had another lead in lonnie johnson. The man who robbed the solder house and cut their phone line allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said that he was quote. Getting tired of taking the rap for those people at fad ville. That wasn't much to go off of. The statements suggested that money was in league. With some quote people. add fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person had fade. Ville was peter who else to gain as much as he did. The problem. this alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley couldn't find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they'd set the fire or kidnap the missing children so the detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire. Chief fj morris and under pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claimed that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the solder family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claim that he buried the heart in a dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say the least george jenny solder wouldn't be satisfied until they could dig up this heart in see for themselves but i see see tinsley arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site once they arrived. The chief pointed out where he'd buried the box they dug until they found it. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like it took an eternity to uncover and went. Tinsley finally opened it up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley couldn't tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the oregon inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. It was a fake and not even a very convincing one. The liver didn't have a trace of burn marks on it. Rumor has it that chief. Morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden the beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put an end to the investigation once and for all he thought that if the solder family found proof that the children had perished in the fire they finally be able to move on. But if that was chief marris's goal it only showed how much he underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any lengths to discover what had happened to their children after the beef liver debacle. They continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty seven. George was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart skip a beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. He'd know her anywhere as he stared at the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young daughter. He made it all the way to manhattan and tracked down the child's school but when he arrived they didn't let him see the little girl. Perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george solder was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dead end. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jennie george still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august nineteen forty-nine. The solders hired a pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. B hunter to go over the site with a fine tooth comb. Hunters first step was to excavate the lot which had since been covered over once the pathologist had dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one of their children metaphor fiery death. This episode is brought to you by progressive progressive. Has you covered when it comes to car. Insurance starting with built in savings like discounts for being a safe driver. You can also say start your quote online or have multiple vehicles on your policy in fact drivers who switch and save with progressive. Save over seven hundred and fifty dollars on average started quote online and see all the discounts for yourself visit progressive dot com today national annual average auto insurance savings by new customers surveyed in two thousand nineteen potential savings will bury discounts vary and are not available in all states and situations. This episode is brought to you by progressive progressive. Has you covered when it comes to car. Insurance starting with built in savings like discounts for being a safe driver. You can also say when you start your quote online or have multiple vehicles on your policy in fact drivers who switch and save with progressive. Save over seven hundred and fifty dollars on average started quote online and see all the discounts for yourself visit progressive dot com today national annual average auto insurance savings by new customers surveyed in two thousand nineteen potential savings will vary discounts vary and are not available in all states and situations now back to the story for years. The solder families searched for evidence of what had happened to their five missing children. And then finally in august nineteen forty-nine they found a somber clue human remains specifically but thala gist oscar. Hunter found the shards of four all from the same body. And this time the bones were undeniably from person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle. Except there was something suspicious about the backbones. They didn't have any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see on a burn victim. This made it unlikely that vertebrae belong to any of the solder children to make sure dr hunter sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington dc for further analysis the report that came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen. Likely too young for the backbones to be his. The report did allow that in rare cases. A fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of a sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologists hypothesized that they must have been present in the dirt that george had added to the site to create the memorial. That big of where exactly. George got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston. West virginia extensively. These were to determine whether they had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintain that they've done everything they could for the solders. Furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence is the reason they were unwilling to devote any more resources to the probe. This seem pretty. Incredible given the startling number of tips twists and witnesses who had come forward since the fire perhaps the authorities were just eager to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mystery solved whatever the reason in one thousand nine hundred fifty. The state of west virginia closed the inquiry for good. Both the governor and the state police superintendent told the solders in no uncertain terms that their case was quote hopeless. It seemed like the saudis had exhausted all possible avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities. Were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the solders made one last ditch attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts. They decided to crowd source their investigation. This was nineteen fifties so they couldn't exactly post the details of the case online but they did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties. jennie george. Solder paid to have a billboard erected along route sixteen near fayetteville at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped murdered or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from oldest to youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. The solders laid out their belief that the fire was started. Intentionally and children survived the blaze. The billboard also suggested that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jenny and george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information when that produced no results they doubled it to ten thousand dollars as far as the saudis were concerned. No price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went up potential clues trickled in for example the solders received a from a woman in missouri. She claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint louis then at patriot a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation. Need heard regarding christmasy fire in west virginia. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break in nineteen sixty seven. A woman from houston reached out to report that she'd overheard a drunken young man claiming to be louis solder. Who would then be thirty one years old. By this time. George was in his early seventies and in failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children. So with the help of his son in law he set off on the long drive to texas however when they finally arrived. The woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet. In any case the trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste even without the woman's help george and his son-in-law manage to track down the man she'd mentioned the one who had allegedly claimed to be louis solder as it turned out there was more to the story. This lewis had a brother. Perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough. They agreed to speak with george. They firmly denied that they were lewis. And maurice solder their hopes dashed your again. George and his son-in-law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in a two thousand thirteen interview was the charleston gazette. She said i think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys and if he'd made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those were his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger. Maybe someone had threatened them or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted joke. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis solders possible whereabouts one day in nineteen sixty eight. Jenny picked the male to find a very strange letter. It was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by bazaar message. I love brother frankie. Little boys a nine zero one three two or thirty five. Needless to say jenny was shocked to think that after twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well somewhere or at least that he'd survived the fire. The implications were staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to compare all of nine year old lewis's features matchup with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair. The long straight knows the upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the solders to dispatch year nother private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from the detective. Again it's unclear. What happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or you might have just taken the sada's money and run jennie. George never found out what happened to the investigator and with georgia's health still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard hoping that might trigger some new piece of information. sadly it didn't george died in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny follow him to the grave. Twenty years later between the billboard and the private investigators the solders reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives to searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the sutter family continue to seek out answers their efforts coupled with amateur online inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied that the mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear. the official reports. Don't tell the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with par three of the mystery of the disappearance of the solder children for more information on the solder house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian magazine article. The children who went up in smoke by karen abbott extremely helpful to our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from park asked for free on spotify. Cnx time in remember. Never take we. Don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries is original from podcast. It is executive produced. By max and ron cutler. Sound design by. Dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by noni okla goo with writing assistance by angela jurgensen and obvious geli audie magoo fact checking by claire. Cronin and research by brad. Klein and brian beatrice unexplained mysteries stars. Molly brandenburg and richard rosner.

jenny toyota george venza Jenny lonnie johnson jenny solder Fj morris lonnie jennie george fayetteville George tinsley Jennie george solder peter Assad solder
The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

Female Criminals

41:00 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

"Forty two year old jenny solder watched as the flames licked against singe flesh burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully set by none other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used every cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or doing something even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us. Here's to making easy decisions in life like this podcast here about to enjoy making choices. Simple when you know it will work. Like scotland thousand toilet paper with one thousand sheets for long-lasting rolls. It works is expected every time. No detective work is needed. It's a reliable easy choice. Keep life rolling save time and buy online at scott branch dotcom and add scott one thousand to your favourite retailers cart. This episode is brought to you by audi. The holidays are here. And it's time to get started on those wishlist but this year may be swapped the fuzzy slippers and cashmere sweaters for something more exhilarating like the cutting edge available virtual cockpit immi- systems and the confidence of quattro all wheel drive which can only be experienced behind the wheel of a new audi and some through t a wishlist at the season of audi sales event. Happening now after a devastating fire on christmas eve. Nineteen forty-five the solder family desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they'd lost their house and their five children. But jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because jenny and george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the ladder that had gone missing on the night of the fire. They could have used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs. If they'd been able to located later someone found a ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in a ditch. The sada's never learned why it was moved or who had done it. Without the latter. George in his sons had tried to use their to coal trucks to climb into the house and rescue the trap children but lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all a witness claimed that he saw man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of hooks and ropes. That can be used to remove an engine from a car. Thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as it turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night. Lonnie also admitted to cutting the solders phone line. Just thirty minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jennie. George to believe that someone may be lonnie had intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft if he was capable of that arson didn't seem like too far leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonny confessed that he wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he'd lit the flames. The solders couldn't even prove the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in in these seemingly confirmed george and jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past a solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed someone had intentionally set the solder house. Flame perhaps using a molotov cocktail or another explosive. If true this meant that their children hadn't died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they return to the site turned memorial a few months later it was a somber moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why her older siblings had disappeared. Blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly. not a toy. It was an olive green hard cylindrical rubber object. After examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof. And it was consistent with the loud thump. Enrolling sound that woke jenny up in the middle of the night in short lonnie. Johnson's suspicious behavior. The napalm bomb and the lack of human remains made the solder. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five children. Jenny conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters ash all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere with the stakes so high. She couldn't only rely on her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther. Confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce a human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned bodies. A two thousand degrees for two hours bone still remained since the blaze that had destroyed. The solder home had only burned for forty five minutes at the most. It was virtually impossible that it had reached the extreme heat of a closed crematorium so it seemed highly unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze had destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The otherwise tragic news was music to jenny's ears. She took it as even more proof that our children couldn't have been in their house when it burned to the ground. By this point her husband. Joe was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up. Information pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. This episode is brought to you by better help. What interferes with your happiness. Is something preventing you from achieving your goals. Better help has licensed professional counselors who specialize in everything from depression and grief to self esteem and anger issues as well as a variety of other matters. Better help is especially convenient. Assess your needs and match you with your own licensed therapist so you can start communicating and under twenty four hours. You can send a message to your counselor anytime and anything. You share is confidential. If for some reason you're not happy with your counselor. Better help makes it easy and free to change if needed plus better help is more affordable than traditional offline conselling. If that's not enough they even offer financial aid. Don't let anything interfere with your happiness or prevent you from achieving your goals. Start living a happier life today. As a listener you'll get ten percent off your first month by visiting our sponsor at better help dot com slash criminals. Join over one million people taking charge of their mental health again. That's helped h. e. l. p. dot com slash criminals. This episode is brought to you by audi. The holidays are here again. And it's time to fill out those holiday wishlist but this year. Avoid the usual. Trappings set aside the fuzzy slippers and cashmere sweaters. Consider something a little more exhilarating. Like the feel of available nappa leather the cutting edge available virtual cockpit and emma my systems and the confidence of quattro all wheel drive all of which can only be experienced behind the wheel of a new audi and some thrill to your wishlist. At the season of audi sales event happening now now back to the story. Officially a nineteen forty-five christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents george and jenny refused to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned away to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed have seen all five of the missing solder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out from the window of a car on the night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders that if she really did see the children that night it raised all sorts of questions for jenny and george namely who abducted them in. Where did they take them before. They could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked at a tourist. Stop between fayetteville where. The cider house was located and charleston. A city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed to have seen the missing solder children with our own eyes the morning after the fire not only had. She spotted them. Sheets served them all breakfast. Sadly she didn't have any information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled in had a florida license plate and soon the heard from different woman one who worked at a charleston hotel. She'd helped check in a strange party about a week. After christmas eve. It was past midnight and the group consisted of four italian-speaking adults two men and two women and four children when the clerk tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile in began conversing amongst themselves in italian. Whatever they were saying it seemed they didn't want to be overheard. They refused to speak with her anymore. And the next morning they made sure to check out early. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day. She opened the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a lot to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happened to the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to georgia's mysterious past in italy. If only we knew what they had in italian sadly and for unknown reasons nothing came of this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months several witnesses pointed south toward florida as it turned out ginny solders brother frank. Cheaper yanni lived in the sunshine state and for a time. She entertained the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why jenny thought this. Maybe she was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Hunch miami police combed through birth records to prove that all of the children living with cheap brioni or actually his. The records were in order and that path had turned out to be another dead end. But that wasn't the end of the mystery before too long. George and jenny uncovered another lead. Which once again suggested their sons and daughters were in florida a missionary in the small coastal village of cortez recognize the solder kids from a picture he saw in the paper. He claimed that he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately georgian. Jenny dispatched private detective to investigate. But by the time he arrived the children were gone. Allegedly the detective confirmed that the children the missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true it suggested that there was some kind of dark cover up going on someone had made the solder children disappear. Before the pe- i could find them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years. Several more tips from people claiming they'd seen the solder children came through and george sutter followed up on every single one. He traveled the country but each time. His hopes were dashed. And george never got any closer to finding his missing children. Still the family wasn't ready to give up the search so in one thousand nine hundred. Forty-seven almost two years. After the fire they appeal to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them a response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover wrote although i would like to be of service. The matter related appears to be of local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau. However the fbi didn't completely leave the solder family out in the cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities one might think the fayetteville police and fire departments would appreciate the help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting in the way with local fayetteville authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the sutter's didn't get help from the fbi. But even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in nineteen. Forty-seven jennie george hired a private investigator named cdc tinsley. Tinsley dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fayetteville. Citizen will refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter. The salesman was a cosigner on the solders home insurance policy but when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened that the solder house would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months later. The house burned to the ground. Just as he said it would all certainly makes peter look suspicious however the fayetteville police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him it seemed. The local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was too prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which had ruled that the sutter fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself a payout if the fire wasn't accidental than it seemed downright nefarious that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinsley couldn't find any indication that peter had set the fire himself but he had another lead in lonnie johnson. The man who had robbed the solder house and cut their phone line allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said that he was quote getting tired of taking the rap for those people at fayetteville. That wasn't much to go off of. But the statement suggested that lonnie was in league with some quote people at fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person had fayetteville was peter who else to gain as much as he did. The problem. this alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley couldn't find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they'd set the fire or kidnapped the missing children so the detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire. Chief fj morris and under pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claimed that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the solder family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claimed that he buried the heart in a dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say. The least george and jenny solder wouldn't be satisfied until they could dig up this heart in see it for themselves but i cc. Tinsley lee arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site. once they arrived. The chief pointed out where he buried the box they dug until they found it. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like it took any turn ity to uncover and when tinsley finally opened it up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley couldn't tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the organ inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. It was a fake and not even a very convincing one. The liver didn't have a trace of burn marks on it. Rumor has it chief. Morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden the beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put end into the investigation once and for all he thought that if the solder family found proof that the children had perished in the fire they finally be able to move on. But if that was chief marris's goal it only showed how much he'd underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any lengths to discover what had happened to their children after the beef liver debacle. They continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty seven. George was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart skip a beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. He'd know her anywhere as he stared at the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young daughter he made it all the way to manhattan and tracked down the child school but when he arrived they didn't let him see the little girl. Perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george solder was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dead end. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jennie george still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august nineteen forty nine. The solders hired a pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. B hunter to go over the site with a fine tooth comb. Hunters first step was to excavate the lot which has since been covered over once the pathologist had dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one of their children met a fiery death premeditated murder bad surprise. Great insurance rates for your home and car from state farm. Good surprise stay. Farm is always begged by like evidence. Exhibit a stay agents that are ready to help with personalized service. So you can customize your insurance exhibit being an award winning mobile app to manage coverage a bills and thanks exhibit seen again so presently. Great rates were equally great service. Now that is an ironclad alibi. Like a good neighbor state farm is there so when you want the real deal go to state farm dot com when you're listening to true crime it makes you wonder what's safe. Thankfully there are still some choices out there that you can trust like scotland thousand toilet paper. It keeps all cases involving the most notorious criminals throughout history. But with one thousand sheets for long-lasting rolls. It does work as expected. Every time and scotland thousand is septic safe and clog free. It's a no-brainer the go-to choice. When thousand sheets for reliable long lasting roles makes it an easy decision. There's no need to over think it. No detective work necessary. Save time and live life uninterrupted. Keep life rolling save time and buy online at scott brand dot com and adds got one thousand two your favourite retailers now back to the story for years. The solder families searched for evidence of what had happened to their five missing children. And then finally. In august nineteen forty-nine they found a somber clue human remains specifically pathologist oscar. Hunter found the shards of four vertebrae all from the same body. And this time. The bones were undeniably from a person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle except there was something suspicious about the backbones any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see on a burn victim. This made it unlikely that the vertebrae belong to any of the solder children to make sure dr hunter sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington d. c. for further analysis the report that came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen. Likely too young for the backbones to be his. The report did allow that in rare cases. A fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologists hypothesized that they must have been present in the dirt that george had added to the site to create the memorial. That beg the question of where exactly george got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston. West virginia extensively. These were to determine whether anything had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintain that. They done everything they could for the solders. Furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence. The reason they were unwilling to devote any more resources to the probe. This seem pretty. Incredible given the startling number of tips twists witnesses who had come forward since the fire perhaps the authorities were just eager to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mysteries solved solved. Whatever the reason in nineteen fifty. The state of west virginia closed the inquiry for good. Both the governor and the state police superintendent told the solders in no uncertain terms that their case was quote hopeless seemed like the saudis had exhausted all possible avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities. Were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the solder made one last ditch attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts. They decided to crowd source their investigation. This was the nineteen fifties so they couldn't exactly post the details of the case online but they did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties. Jennie george. Solder paid to have a billboard erected along route sixteen near fant ville at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped murdered or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from oldest to youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. Besotted laid out their belief that the fire was started. Intentionally and two children survived the blaze. The billboard also suggested that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jennie george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information when that produced no results. They doubled it to ten thousand dollars as far as the saudis. Were concerned no price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went up potential clues trickled in for example the solders received a letter from a woman in missouri. She claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint. Louis van at patron at a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation need overheard regarding christmasy fire in west virginia. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break in nineteen sixty seven. A woman from houston reached out to report that she overheard a drunken young man claiming to be louis. Solder who would then be thirty one years old. By this time. George was in his early seventies and in failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children. So with the help of his son in law he set off on the long drive to texas however when they finally arrived. The woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet. In any case the trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste even without the woman's help george and his son-in-law managed to track down the man. She mentioned the one who had allegedly claimed to be louis. Solder as it turned out there was more to the story. This lewis had a brother. Perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough. They agreed to speak with george but they firmly denied that they were a lewis and maury solder their hopes dashed yet again. George and his son-in-law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in two thousand thirteen interview was the charleston gazette. She said i think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys and if he made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those were his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger. Maybe someone had threatened them or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted joke. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis solders possible whereabouts one day in nineteen sixty eight. Jenny picked up the mail to find a very strange letter. It was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was of a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by bizarre message. I love brother frankie. Little boys a nine zero one three two or five. Needless to say jenny was shocked to think that twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well somewhere or at least that he'd survive the fire the implications were staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to compare all of nine year old louis features match up with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair. The long straight knows the upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the saudis dispatch yet another private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from the detective again. It's unclear what happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or he might have just taken the money and run. Jenny and george never found out what happened to the investigator. And with georgia's health still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard hoping that it might trigger some new piece of information. Sadly it didn't george died in nineteen sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny followed him to the grave. Twenty years later between the billboard and the private investigators the solder reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives to searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the sutter family continue to seek out answers their efforts coupled with amateur online inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied that the mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear. The official reports tell the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with par three of the mystery of the disappearance of the southern children for more information on the solder house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian magazine article that children who went up in smoke by karen abbott extremely helpful to our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. Cnx time in remember. Never take we. Don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries is a spotify original from podcast. It is executive produced by max and ron cutler. Sound design by. Dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by noni okla goo with writing assistance by angela jorgensen and abby kelley addie mae goo fact checking by claire cronin and research by brad klein and brian petrous unexplained mysteries stars molly. Brandenburg and richard rossner.

jenny george jenny solder audi lonnie Fj morris Jenny fayetteville Lonnie johnson George jennie george peter tinsley Jennie scott branch dotcom george namely fbi charleston hotel
The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

Extraterrestrial

40:24 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

"Forty two year old jenny solder watched as the flames licked against singe flesh burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully set by none other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used to cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or doing something even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by feeding america. This holiday season many families will turn to food banks for the first time feeding america on a mission to help these families by supplying food and resources to food banks across the country together we can help and hunger learn how at feeding america dot org slash hope. This episode is brought to you by bank of america. We're all shopping online these days and now you can get rewarded for it. With the bank of america cash rewards credit card you can choose to earn three percent cashback on online shopping essentials. The essentials have never been more rewarding visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright two thousand twenty bank of america corporation. This episode is brought to you by. Coffey occur celebrate all the unofficial unserious moments of holiday fun with easy mix kalou coffee cocktails made with one hundred percents real arabica. Coffee beans pollute a lighthearted. Twist your drinks and your virtual parties atmosphere. Pick up a bottle of colusa this season at liquor or grocery store near you or order online beatrice -ly after a devastating fire on christmas eve. Nineteen forty-five the solder family desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they'd lost their house and their five children. But jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because jenny and george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the latter that had gone missing on the night of the fire. They could have used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs. If they'd been able to locate it later. Someone found a ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in a ditch. The solders never learned why it was moved. Or who had done it without the latter georgia and his sons had tried to use their to coal trucks to climb into the house and rescued the trap children. But lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all a witness claimed that he saw a man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of hooks and ropes. That can be used to remove an engine from a car. The thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as it turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night. Lonnie also admitted to cutting the sada's phone line just thirty minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jenny. And george to believe that someone may be lonnie had intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft if he was capable of that arson didn't seem like too far a leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonnie confessed that he wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he'd lit the flames. The sada's couldn't even prove the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in and they seemingly confirmed george. Jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past a solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed someone had intentionally set the solder house. Flame perhaps using a molotov cocktail or another explosive. If true this meant that their children hadn't died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they returned to the site turned memorial a few months later it a somber moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why her older siblings had disappeared. Blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly. Not a toy it was in olive. Green hard cylindrical rubber object after examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof and it was consistent with the loud thump and rolling. Sound that jenny up in the middle of the night in short lonnie johnson's suspicious behavior. The napalm bomb and the lack of human remains made the saunders. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five children. Jenny conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters had turned to ash all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere but with the stakes so high she couldn't only rely on her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther to confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce a human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned bodies. Two thousand degrees for two hours bone still remained since the blaze that had destroyed. The solder home had only burned for forty five minutes at the most. It was virtually impossible that it had reached the extreme heat of a closed crematorium so it seemed highly unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested on the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The otherwise tragic news was music to jen's ears. She took it as even more proof that our children couldn't have been in their house when it burned to the ground. By this point her husband. George was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up. Information pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. This episode is brought to you. By feeding america as we approached the holidays more families will turn to food banks more than ever before many for the first time into with hunger. Disproportionately affecting communities of color it remains an ongoing vital issue as the largest hunger relief organization in the us. Feeding america is dedicated to ending hunger through a nationwide network of food banks. Hunger may seem like a problem too big or too invisible to solve but together we can help ensure that our communities have enough to eat. Just one dollar helps provide at least ten meals to families and neighbors in need. See how you can help this holiday season by donating volunteering for advocating at feeding america dot org slash hope. This episode is brought to you by bank of america. You finally decided to learn how to ice skate. So you ordered the essentials. Every ice skater needs a pair of blades. A new helmet and a good set of kneepads. And you use your bank of america. Cash rewards credit card choosing to earn three percent cashback on online shopping rewards that you put towards the cost of an essential piece of post skating recovery. A heating pad visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright two thousand twenty bank of america corporation. Now back to the story. Officially a nineteen forty-five christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents george. Jenny refuse to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned away to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed to have seen all five of the missing solder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out from the window of a car on night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders bid if she really did see the children that night. It raised all sorts of questions for jenny and george namely abducted them in. Where did they take them before. They could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked at a tourist. Stop between fayetteville where. The sod house was and charleston. A city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed to have seen the missing solder children with her own eyes the morning after the fire not only had. She spotted them. She'd serve them breakfast sadly she didn't any information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled in have florida license plate and soon the solders heard from different woman. One who worked at a charleston hotel. She'd helped check in a strange party about a week. After christmas eve. It was past midnight and the group consisted of four italian speaking adults. Two men and two women and four children when the tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile in began. Conversing amongst themselves in italian was they were saying it seemed. They didn't want to be overheard. They refused to speak with her anymore. And the next morning they made sure to check out early. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day she the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a lot to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happened to the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to georgia's mysterious past in italy. If only we knew what they had said in italian sadly and for unknown reasons nothing came of this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months. Several witnesses pointed south toward florida. As it turned out. Jenny solders brother frank. Cheaper onny lived in the sunshine state and for a time. She entertained the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why. Jenny thought this was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Hunch miami police comb through birth records to prove that all of the children living with cioni or actually his the records were in order and that path turned out to be another dead end. But that wasn't the end of the mystery before too. Long and jenny uncovered another lead. Which once again suggested their sons and daughters were in florida a missionary in the small coastal village of cortez recognize the solder kids from picture he saw in the paper. He claimed that he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately georgian. Jenny dispatched a private detective to investigate but by the time he arrived the children were gone. Allegedly the detective confirmed that the children the missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true it's adjusted that there was some kind of dark cover up going on someone had made the solder children disappear before the pe- i could find them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years. Several more tips from people claiming they'd seen the solder children came through and george solder followed up on every single one. He traveled the country but each time. His hopes were dashed. And george never got any closer to finding his missing children. Still the family wasn't ready to give up the search so in nineteen forty seven almost two years after the fire they appeal to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover wrote although i would like to service. The matter related appears to be of local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau however the f. b. didn't completely leave the solder family out in the cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities one might think the fayetteville police and fire departments would appreciate the help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting in the way with local fayetteville authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the sutter's didn't get help from the fbi but even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in nineteen. Forty seven. jennie. George hired a private investigator named cc. Tinsley teens lee dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fayetteville. Citizen will refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter. The salesman was a cosigner on the solders home insurance policy but when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened that the house would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months later. The house burned to the ground just as he said it would. All that certainly makes. Peter look suspicious however the fayetteville police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him. The local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was too prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which has ruled that the sutter fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself a payout if the fire wasn't accidental then it seemed downright nefarious that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinsley couldn't find any indication that peter had set the fire himself but he had another lead in lonnie johnson. The man who had robbed the slaughterhouse and cut their phone line allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said that he was getting tired of taking the rap for those people at fayetteville. That wasn't much to go off of. But the statement suggested that lonnie was in league with some quote people at fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person had fayetteville was peter who else to gain as much as he did. The problem. this alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley couldn't find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they'd set the fire or kidnap the missing children so detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire chief. Fj and under pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claimed that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the sada family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claimed that he buried the heart in a dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say the least george janney solder wide and till they could dig up this heart in see it for themselves but i see tinsley arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site once they arrived. The chief pointed out where he buried the box they dug until they found it. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like took any turn ity to uncover and when tinsley finally opened it up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley couldn't tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the oregon inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. It was a fake and not even a very convincing one. The liver didn't have a trace of barks on it. Rumor has it that chief. Morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden the beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put an end to the investigation once and for all he thought that if the solder family found proof that the children had perished in the fire they finally be able to move on. But if that was chief morris's goal it only showed how much he'd underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any lengths to discover what had happened to their children after the beef liver debacle. They continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty seven. George was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart skip a beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. He'd know her anywhere as he stared at the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young daughter. He made it all the way to manhattan. Tracked down the child's school but when he arrived they didn't let him see the little girl. Perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george saadeh was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dead end. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jenny in georgia still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august nineteen forty nine. The solders hired a pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. B hunter to go over the site with a fine tooth comb. Hunters first step was to excavate the lot which has since been covered over once the pathologist had dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one of their children met a fiery death. This episode is brought to you by mail chimp after gathering insights for millions of small business customers over the last twenty years. Mailchimp has some marketing smarts to share like creative smarts with male chimps new creative assistant. You can create beautiful. Ai generated designs using your existing brand assets or customer journey. Smarts like of a customer buys something. Mail chimp will be stay ahead of what they might buy next. And then set up follow-up emails to help close the deal or recommendation smarts get tips insights on what works what doesn't in what to do next to target your highest value. Customers sell more stuff with marketing smarts from meal. Chimp try it now. Mailchimp dot com slash smart marketing. Ooh this episode is brought to you by casper you're most life. Changing sleep is about what's underneath. This is a casper mattress inside precisely one thousand five hundred and one perforations creed cooling system so effective. You won't be awake to notice. Only casper mattresses are made with eighty six supportive gel pods to align your spine eliminate aches and pains. It's the cooling supportive comfort. You need for the most refreshed feeling every morning. Only on a casper mattress only at casper dot com now back to the story for years. The solder family searched evidence of what had happened to their five missing children and then finally in august nineteen forty nine. They found a somber clue human remains specifically pathologist oscar. Hunter found the shards of four vertebrae all from the same body. And this time the bones were undeniably from person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle. Except there was something suspicious about the backbones. They didn't have any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see on a burn victim. This made it unlikely that the vertebrae belong to any of the solder children. To make sure dr hunter sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington dc for further analysis report. That came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen. Likely too young for the backbones to be his. The report did allow that in rare cases. A fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of a sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologist hypothesized that they must have been present in the dirt. The george had added to the site to create the memorial. That beg the question of where exactly george got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston. West virginia extensively. These were to determine whether anything had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintain that. They done everything they could for the solders. Furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence is the reason they were unwilling to devote any more resources to the probe. This seem pretty. Incredible given the startling number of tips twists and witnesses who had come forward since the fire perhaps the authorities were just to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mysteries solved. Whatever the reason in one thousand nine hundred fifty. The state of west virginia closed the inquiry for good. Both the governor and the state police superintendent told the solders in no uncertain terms that their case was quote hopeless. Seemed like they had exhausted all possible. Avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the solders made one last ditch attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts. They decided to crowd source their investigation. This was the nineteen fifties so they couldn't exactly post the details of the case online but they did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties. Jennie george. Solder paid to have a billboard erected along route sixteen near fayetteville at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped murdered or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from the two youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. The solders laid out their belief that the fire was started intentionally and the children survived the blaze. The billboard suggested that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jenny and george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information that produced no results. They doubled it to ten thousand dollars as far as the solders were concerned. No price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went up potential clues trickled in for example the solders received a letter from a woman in missouri. She claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint louis then at patron at a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation. They'd overheard regarding a christmassy fire in west virginia. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break In nineteen sixty seven a woman from houston reached out to report that she'd overheard drunken young man claiming to be louis sutter. Who would then be thirty one years old. By this time. George was in his early seventies and failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children. So with the help of his son in law he set off on the long drive to texas however when they finally arrived. The woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet. In any case the trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste even without the woman's help george and his son-in-law managed to track down the man she'd mentioned the one who had allegedly claimed to be louis solder as it turned out there was more to the story. This lewis had a brother. Perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough to speak with george. But they firmly denied that they were lewis and maurice solder. Their hopes dashed yet again. George and his son-in-law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in two thousand thirteen interview was the charleston gazette. She said i think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys and if he'd made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those were his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger. Maybe someone had threatened them or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted joke. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis solders possible whereabouts one day in nineteen sixty eight. Jenny picked up the mail to find a very strange letter. It was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by a bizarre message. I love brother frankie. Little boys a nine zero one three two or thirty five. Needless to say jenny was shocked to think that after twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well somewhere or at least that he'd survived the fire. The implications were staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to compare all of nine year old louis features match up with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair. The long straight knows the upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the saudis dispatch yet another private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from the detective again. It's unclear what happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or he might have just taken. The solder is money and run. Jenny and george never found out what happened to the investigator and with george health still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard hoping that it might trigger some new piece of information. Sadly it didn't george died in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny followed him to the grave. Twenty years later between the billboard and the private investigators the solders reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives to searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the solder family continue to seek out answers their efforts coupled with amateur online inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied that the mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear the official reports. Don't tell the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with part three of the mystery of the disappearance of the solder children for more information on the sod house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian magazine article that children who went up in smoke by karen abbott extremely helpful to our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all other spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. Cnx time in remember. Never take we. Don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries is a spotify original from podcast. It is executive produced by max and ron cutler. Sound design by. Dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by noni okla with writing assistance by angela. Jorgensen and abby geli audie magoo fact checking by claire cronin and research by brad klein and brian beatrice unexplained mysteries stars molly. Brandenburg and richard rosner.

jenny Jenny george bank of america lonnie johnson jenny solder fayetteville lonnie Fj morris twenty bank of america corpora america sada tinsley peter George Jennie
The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

Survival

39:21 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

"Forty two year old jenny solder watched as the flames licked against singe flesh burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully set by none other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used every cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or doing something even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us after a devastating fire on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. The sutter family desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they'd lost their house and their five children. But jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because jennie george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the latter that had gone missing on the night of the fire. They could have used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs. If they'd been able to locate it later someone found a ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in a ditch. The solders never learned why it was moved or who had done it without the ladder george. His sons had tried to use their to coal trucks to climb into the house and rescue the trapped children but lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all a witness claimed that he saw man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of hooks and ropes. That can be used to remove an engine from a car. Thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as it turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night. Lonnie also admitted to cutting the solders phone line. Just thirty minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jennie george. To believe that someone maybe lani had intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft if he was capable of that are didn't seem like too far leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonnie confessed that he wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he'd lit the flames. The sada's improve the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in the seemingly confirmed george and jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past a solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed someone had intentionally set the slaughterhouse. Aflame perhaps using molotov cocktail or another explosive true. This meant that their children hadn't died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they returned to the site turned memorial a few months later it was a somber moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why her older siblings had disappeared. Blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly. not a toy. It was an olive green hard cylindrical rubber object. After examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof and it was consistent with the loud thump and rolling sound. That woke jenny up in the middle of the night in short lonnie johnson's suspicious behavior. The napalm bomb and the lack of human remains may the solders. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five children. Jenny conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters had turned to ash all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere but with the stakes so high. She couldn't only rely her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther to confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce a human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned bodies a two thousand degrees for two hours bone still remained since the blaze that had destroyed. The sutter home had only burned for forty five minutes at the most. It was virtually impossible that it had reached the extreme heat of closed crematorium so it seemed highly unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested on the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze had destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The otherwise tragic news was music to jennings ears. She took it as even more proof that our children couldn't have been in their house when it burned to the ground. By this point her husband. George was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up. Information pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. This episode is brought to you. By feeding america as we approached the holidays more families will turn to food banks more than ever before many for the first time into with hunger. Disproportionately affecting communities of color it remains an ongoing and vital issue as the largest hunger relief organization in the us. Feeding america is dedicated to ending hunger through a nationwide network of food banks. Hunger may seem like a problem too big or too invisible to solve but together we can help ensure that our communities have enough to eat just one dollar has provided at least ten meals to families in neighbors in need. See how you can help this holiday season by donating volunteering or advocating at feeding america dot. Org slash hope. This episode is brought to you by bile life plasma services. Now more than ever people want to know if there's anything they can do to help and the answer is yes at via life plasma services. You're plasmas desperately needed to create life. Changing madison's to help treat people with immune deficiencies those who are at most risk right now and when you donate plasma via life you can earn up to seven hundred dollars in your first month as a token of appreciation for your time so please become a donor by life visit bio life plasma dot com to schedule an appointment now back to the story. Officially a nineteen forty-five christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents george and jenny refused to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned away to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed to have seen all five of the missing solder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out from the window of a car on the night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders that if she really did see the children that night it raised all sorts of questions for jenny and george namely who abducted them in. Where did they take them before. They could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked at a tourist. Stop between fayetteville where. The solder house was located and charleston. A city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed to have seen the missing solder children with our own eyes the morning after the fire. Not only had. She spotted them. She served them all breakfast. Sadly she didn't have any information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled in had a florida license plate and soon the heard from different woman one who worked at a charleston hotel. She'd helped check in a strange party about a week. After christmas eve. It was past midnight and the group consisted of four italian-speaking adults two men and two women and four children when the clerk tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile in began conversing amongst themselves in italian. Whatever they were saying it seemed they didn't want to be overheard. They refused to speak with her anymore. And the next morning they made sure to check out early. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day. She opened the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a lot to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happened to the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to georgia's mysterious past in italy. If only we knew what they had said in italian sadly and for unknown reasons nothing came of this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months several witnesses pointed south toward florida as it turned out ginny solders brother frank. Cheaper yanni lived in the sunshine state and for a time. She entertained the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why jenny thought this. Maybe she was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Hunch miami police combed through birth records to prove that all of the children living with cheap reality or actually his the records were in order and that path had turned out to be another dead end. But that wasn't the end of the mystery before too long. George and jenny uncovered another lead. Which once again suggested their sons and daughters were in florida a missionary in the small coastal village. Cortez recognize the solder kids from a picture he saw in the paper. He claimed that he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately georgian. Jenny dispatched private detective to investigate. But by the time he arrived the children were gone. Allegedly the detective confirmed that the children the missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true it suggested that there was some kind of dark cover up going on some one had made the solder children disappear before the pe- i could find them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years. Several more tips from people claiming they'd seen the solder children came through and george sutter followed up on every single one. He traveled the country but each time. His hopes were dashed. And george never got any closer to finding his missing children. Still the family wasn't ready to give up the search so in one thousand nine hundred. Forty-seven almost two years. After the fire they appeal to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them a response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover wrote although i would like to be of service. The matter related appears to be of local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau. However the fbi didn't completely leave the solder family out in the cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities one might think the fayetteville police and fire departments would appreciate the help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting in the way with local fayetteville authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the sutter's didn't get help from the fbi but even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in nineteen forty seven jennie. George hired a private investigator named c. c tinsley teens lee dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fayetteville. Citizen will refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter. The salesman was a cosigner on the solders home insurance policy but when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened that the solders house would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months later. The house burned to the ground just as he said it would. All that certainly makes. Peter look suspicious however the fayetteville police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him it seemed. The local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was too prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which had ruled that the sutter fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself a payout if the fire wasn't accidental than it seemed downright farris that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinsley couldn't find any indication that peter had set the fire himself but he had another lead in lonnie johnson. The man who robbed the solder house and cut their phone line allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said that he was quote getting tired of taking the rap for those people at fayetteville. That wasn't much to go off of. But the statement suggested that lonnie was in league with some quote people at fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person had fayetteville was peter who else to gain as much as he did. The problem. this alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley couldn't find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they set the fire or kidnapped the missing children so that detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire. Chief fj morris and under pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claimed that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the solder family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claimed that he buried the heart in dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say. The least george and jenny solder wouldn't be satisfied until they could dig up this in. See it for themselves but i. Cc teens lee arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site once they arrived. The chief pointed out where he buried the box they dug until they found it. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like it took any turney to uncover and when tinsley finally opened it up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley couldn't tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the organ inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. It was a fake and not even a very convincing one. The liver didn't have a trace of burn marks on it. Rumor has it that chief. Morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden the beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put an end to the investigation once and for all he thought that if the solder family found proof that the children had perished in the fire they finally be able to move on. But if that was chief marris's goal it only showed how much he'd underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any lengths to discover what had happened to their children after the beef liver debacle that continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty seven. George was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart skip a beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. He'd know her anywhere as he stared at the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young daughter. He made it all the way to manhattan and track down the child school but when he arrived didn't let him see the little girl perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george solder was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dead end. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jennie george still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august nineteen forty-nine. The sada's hired a pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. B hunter to go over the site with a fine tooth comb. Hunters first step was to excavate the lot which has since been covered over once the pathologist had dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one of their children met a fiery death. This episode is brought to you by cyberpunk twenty seventy seven from cd project. Red creators of the witcher. Three wild hunt come cyberpunk twenty seventy seven and open world first person action adventure set in the dark future of nights city. You play as v a cyber enhanced mercenary taking on the riskiest job your life alongside the legendary johnny silver hand played by keanu reeves equipped with ability altering cyber wear high tech weapons hacking skills and more experience a mature multilayered narrative. Where your choices shape the story and world around you cyberpunk twenty seventy seven is out now for xbox one pc and playstation for also plays great on xbox series x and playstation five rated m. furniture. This episode is brought to you by casper. You're most life. Changing sleep is about what's underneath. This is a casper mattress inside precisely one thousand five hundred and one perforations create a cooling system so effective. You won't be awake to notice. Only casper mattresses are made with eighty-six supportive gel pods to align your spine and eliminate aches and pains. It's the cooling supportive comfort. You need for the most refreshed feeling every morning. Only on a casper mattress only at casper dot com now back to the story for years. The solder families searched for evidence of what had happened to their five missing children. And then finally in august nineteen forty-nine they found a somber clue human remains specifically thala gist oscar. Hunter found the shards of four vertebrae all from the same body. And this time. The bones were undeniably from a person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle. Except there was something suspicious about the backbones. They didn't have any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see on a burn victim. This made it unlikely that the vertebrae belong to any of the solder children. To make sure dr hunter sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington dc for further analysis the report that came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen. Likely too young for the backbones to be his. The report did allow that in rare cases. A fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologist hypothesized they must have been present in the dirt that george had added to the site to create the memorial. That begs the question of where exactly george got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston. West virginia extensively. These were to determine whether anything had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintain that. They've done everything they could for the solders. Furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence is the reason they were unwilling to devote any more resources to the probe. This seem pretty. Incredible given the startling number of tips twists and witnesses who had come forward since the fire perhaps the authorities were just eager to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mysteries solved. Whatever the reason in one thousand nine fifty. The state of west virginia closed the inquiry for good. Both the governor and the state police superintendent told the solders in no uncertain terms that their case was quote hopeless. It seemed like the solders had exhausted all possible. Avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the solders made one last ditch attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts. They decided to crowdsource their investigation. This was the nineteen fifties so they couldn't exactly post the details of the case online but they did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties. Jenny and george solder paid to have a billboard erected along route sixteen near fayetteville at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped murdered or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from oldest to youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. The solders laid out their belief that the fire was started intentionally and the children survived the blaze. The billboard also suggested that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jennie george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information when that produced no results. They doubled it to ten thousand dollars as far as the saudis. Were concerned no price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went up potential clues trickled in for example. The sada's received a letter from a woman in missouri. She claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint louis then patron at a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation made overheard regarding christmasy fire in west virginia. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break in nineteen sixty seven. A woman from houston reached out to report that she'd overheard a drunken young man claiming to be louis solder. Who would then be thirty one years old. By this time. George was in his early seventies and in failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children. So with the help of his son in law he set off on the long drive texas however when they finally arrived. The woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet any case. The trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste. Even without the woman's help george and his son-in-law managed to track down the man she'd mentioned the one who had allegedly claimed to be louis solder as it turned out there was more to the story. This lewis had a brother. Perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough. They agreed to speak with george but they firmly denied that they were lewis and maurice solder their hopes dashed year. Been george and his son-in-law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in a two thousand thirteen interview was the charleston gazette. She said i think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys and if he'd made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those were his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger. Maybe someone had threatened them or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted joke. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis solders possible whereabouts one day in nineteen sixty eight. Jenny picked up the mail to find a very strange letter. It was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by bazaar message. I love brother frankie. Little boys a nine zero one three two or thirty five. Needless to say jenny was shocked to think that after twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well somewhere or at least that he'd survived the fire. The implications were staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to compare all of nine year. Old louis xv features match up with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair. The long straight knows the upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the saudis to dispatch yet another private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from the detective again. It's unclear what happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or you might have just taken the sada's money and run jennie. George never found out what happened to the investigator and with georgia's health still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard hoping that it might trigger some new piece of information. Sadly it didn't george died in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny followed him to the grave. Twenty years later between the billboard and the private investigators the saudis reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives to searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in nineteen eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the sutter family continue to seek out answers their efforts coupled with amateur online inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied that the mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear. the official reports. Don't tell the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with par three of the mystery of the disappearance of the solder children for more information on the solder house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian magazine article that children who went up in smoke by karen abbott extremely helpful to our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from park asked for free on spotify. Cnx time in remember. Never take we. Don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries is a spotify. Original from cast it is executive produced by max and ron cutler send designed by dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by noni okla goo with writing assistance by angela jurgensen and abby kelley addie magoo fact checking by claire cronin and research. Brad klein and brian peteris unexplained mysteries stars. Molly brandenburg and richard rosner.

jenny george jenny solder Jennie george Lonnie johnson fayetteville Jenny Fj morris lonnie George peter tinsley Jennie sada sutter george namely fbi
279 | Hot Shot

Aaron Mahnke's Cabinet of Curiosities

10:51 min | 2 months ago

279 | Hot Shot

"Welcomed aaron mckie's cabinet of curiosities production of heart radio and grim and mild. Our world is full of the unexplainable and if history is an open book all of these amazing tales. Right there on display just waiting for us to explore. Welcome to the cabinet of curiosities. Our jobs can be draining. Working forty hours or more can leave us feeling rundown and tired by the end of the week when the weekend comes we often find solace in front of the tv or engaging in a relaxing hobby lonnie johnson. On the other hand he liked to tinker. Johnson was born in mobile alabama in nineteen forty nine. His father a veteran of world war two made sure lonnie and his five siblings were well educated and most importantly stayed curious. Johnson was definitely curious as a boy. He learned how to build his own toys. When that stopped being interesting he moved onto making berry. Launchers out of bamboo shoots. Johnson grew more and more interested in the sciences especially engineering at thirteen years old. He built a go-cart out of scraps from junkyard. And hooked it all up to a lawnmower engine rather than tested out on a track though. He decided to let her rip on the open highway. The police were less than thrilled with his initiative and pulled him over before returning him to his parents as a budding scientists in nineteen sixty eight johnson attended a state science fair held at the university of alabama at tuscaloosa. He was the only black student present and hoped to follow in the footsteps of his idol agricultural scientists. George washington carver. Johnson entered a project that wowed the judges a robot running on compressed air. His efforts won him first prize. He went on to earn a scholarship to university where he graduated with a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering followed by a masters degree in nuclear engineering the johnson. The sky was the limit literally so fresh out of college. He joined the united states air force where his intelligence and engineering skills were put to use in developing the stealth bomber from there. Even the sky seemed to low of a boundary for him. He needed to go higher. Above the clouds to the stars and beyond nasa would become his home for the next few years from nineteen seventy nine to nineteen eighty. Two johnson worked on the cassini spacecraft which traveled to saturn as well as the galileo which eventually reached do bitter in nineteen ninety five. He returned to the air force after his brief stint at nasa but was called back five years later to assist with the mars observer project yet even as he bounced from one career to another he never gave up on his. I love working on his own inventions. You see in. Nineteen eighty-two johnson had begun designing a better heat pump he pumps absorbed heat from one location and transferred it to another for example Heat pump might absorb the heat inside a house and transfer it in order to cool the home down in warmer weather. Much like an air conditioner. Johnson's version however it was small and self contained it featured a reservoir on top. It looked like two liter soda bottle which was filled with pressurized water. Instead of free on the bottle was fastened to a few feet of pvc pipe and some pieces were handmade using his own tools. One night johnson was working on his prototype win. It sprung a leak. The stream of water shoutout several feet in front of him and gave him an idea. He walked into his bathroom and aimed it at his bathtub. Where the pressurized water fired again. He calculated that given enough space. It was possible that his heat pump could launch a jet of water about forty feet long. Suddenly he didn't have a heat pump anymore. He filed a patent for the device which he finally received in one. Thousand nine hundred. Eighty six is goal for success had shifted from rocket science to consumer purchase. He believed everyday people would love to own such a unique product. But he couldn't find anyone to help him manufacturer or market it and then the one thousand nine hundred nine laremy corporation signed on. They saw a perfect opportunity to revolutionize pool parties and summer vacations with johnson's heat pump they marketed it as the power drescher and put it up for sale in nineteen. Ninety product. didn't become a hit until a year later when it was rebranded as a weapon made for mischief and sold for ten bucks a piece. It may two hundred million dollars that year no doubt due to its highly descriptive. Name the super soaker. This episode of cabinet curiosities is sponsored by better help online counseling. The new year can be a good time for a mental health. Check in. maybe you've always wanted to try therapy or you'd like to try it again or you just need to talk some things out. Better help offers online licensed professional therapists. Who are trained to listen and to help. With issues including anxiety grief depression trauma self esteem and more finding the therapist can be intimidating and time consuming with better health. You can simply fill out a questionnaire to help. Assess your specific needs and then get matched with your counselor under forty eight hours. You can easily schedule secure video and phone sessions with your therapist and exchange unlimited messages. Everything you share is confidential and if for any reason you are unhappy with your counselor you can request new one at any time at no additional charge join over a million other people taking charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced. Better health better. Help is a convenient and affordable option and our listeners. Get ten percent off your first month with discount code curiosities get started today at better. H e l p dot com slash curiosities. There's no shame in asking for help. Bad habits can be hard to break. Biting your nails endlessly scrolling social media and staying up late tend to have negative effects on one's health but perhaps one of the worst habits a person can pick up is smoking in the united states alone. Smoking is responsible for upwards of four hundred eighty thousand deaths every year so it's no wonder that people try and kick such a nasty habit all the time there are patches gums books and all kinds of methods designed to curb one of the deadliest and smelly est practices ever known one man however came up with a way to quit smoking back in the nineteen twenties. His only problem was that kids liked it. To edward haas was born in austria in eighteen ninety seven and developed an early interest in food. It wasn't surprising. His father had built a successful baking powder. Company at the turn of the century thanks to his entrepreneurial family the younger haas found the taste for two things by the time he was eighteen cake and business when he was old enough his father allowed and managed the baking powder company and handle marketing. Some of haass's biggest achievements were his print ads for their premeasured cake. Mix but he didn't stop there as he got older. He realized he needed to diversify. He didn't just want to make baking powder he wanted to change the world. And one way was bhai helping people quit unhealthy habits namely smoking and overeating combining his business acumen. With his culinary knowledge. He came up with the lozenge made of compressed sugar haas believed popping. One of these in one's mouth instead of a cigarette could help people stop smoking entirely. And by flavoring it with peppermint it could also fresh their breath. He sold the lozenges with the help of young women who he hired to give out free samples over time. The tablets round shapes changed into something more kim to a brick and they sold even better pretty soon. Haass's business strategy had to change his factories that had been churning out. Baking powder were now forced to manufacture mince instead and they never stopped for twenty years. He sold his peppermint tablets. In metal tins meant to be carried around in his customers pockets but they wanted something better than more sanitary haas came up with a new kind of container after world war two. It allowed a person to extract a single mint at a time or give one to a friend without them. Contaminating the other tablets. These dispensers were called regulars and they bore an uncanny resemblance to cigarette. Lighters haas's regulars proved popular so popular in fact that he had to build another factory in austria just to make them. The company's growth in europe was trending ever upward and it was time to take the product overseas however when he brought it to america. It just kind of fizzled out. Adult smokers didn't want to give up their cigarettes and they certainly didn't want to carry around a fake lighter full of mints in their pockets. Either haas couldn't afford to lose the us market though so he changed tactics. He got rid of the peppermint flavoring and started making them with fruit flavors instead. Mike lime cherry and lemon as for the dispensers he changed those two haass's candies now out of toy ray guns and popped of robots and even santa claus. His idea was a hit but inexpensive. Hits the reagan you so much. Plastic and labor to put together. It was too costly to keep producing eventually. He found a happy medium between toy and candy dispenser and he debuted his new design. During halloween of nineteen fifty. Seven on top was a witch's head on the bottom plane plastic sleeve holding the candy tablets inside one year later he added popular comic strip character. Popeye to the lineup. Since then eduard haass's sugar tablets have made millions of dollars worldwide. The company currently boasts a roster of over fourteen hundred different character dispensers from spider man to star wars to mickey mouse and everyone in between there still a hit with kids of all ages to this day. So what's at haas. Call his wondrous anti-smoking mint turned candy. All he did was pull three letters from the german word for peppermint a p. e. and z and he simply called it pez. I hope you've enjoyed today's guided tour of the cabinet of curiosities. Subscribe for free on apple podcasts or learn more about the show by visiting curiosities. Podcast dot com. The show was created by me. Aaron monkey in partnership with how stuff works. I make another award. Winning show called lor which is a podcast book series n television show and you can learn all about it over at the world of lor dot com until next time stay curious.

johnson Johnson aaron mckie cabinet of curiosities product lonnie johnson nasa cabinet depression trauma George washington carver lonnie haass university of alabama tuscaloosa united states air force haas edward haas berry
AP Laboratory - Episode 30

Arrowhead Pride

54:23 min | 2 years ago

AP Laboratory - Episode 30

"Down. Thanks for joining us today can Swanson on the lead villain draft analyst for Erla head pride. You are listening to the AP laboratory what war eagle come on, Mattie. Who's your college TV? We're starting with this oser college team. I am a Tigers fan. Care to elaborate litter, Clemson LSU, Auburn, Missouri. I guess for like baseball or soft oriented. The Princeton Tigers are great football team. In the Ivy league any other Tigers out there. I'm wilted two ROY touch them. I will show up to any game all the times. There's fun fact the Tigers is most used mascot in college. Probably. It's because because Matty went to a college that only has the one mascot in in guests. So. Well, we got a lot to cover today. We're gonna do it's mostly just mailed back, but a couple of questions we're going to kind of dive in a little bit on couple of housekeeping notes. If you guys like the podcast channel apparently five star reviews on itunes is a good thing. We would love bore of them. Please support the podcast channel with those five star reviews that would be wonderful. We are winding down. We are two weeks away from launching the KC draft guide very excited about this. And we just finished running backs tonight. Craig, I think you finish Cornerbacks tonight. Is that right? Yup. Off ball line natty, how many positions have you finished man were little. But this is also what happens would you have like thirty players from the shared position group that you have to ride up while kid has like three can I can I say something they'll Mattie because this is kind of karma this carbon because war eagle had strategically been playing this all year where like he'll stumble on someone. That's like really interesting and fun on Twitter, and he'll be like, oh, who's this character? I guess I'll take him. Whoops. And he's done like the entire off season. So I've been getting bums this whole year and manages been subtly like, oh sure, why not grade the fun players. I know that your quarterbacks and running backs, and those are totally positions at the chiefs are going to take and are very deep this year. Sure. Go ahead. Just take take the backup edge from BYU. That's fine. Go ahead. I'll take someone. This is why you should have been this is why you should have been grinding the table. Last June with me. Complain about the fact that he's got all the good players. To do. Why wonder why because you took all the good players. Well, anyways, I know not. That's okay. We'll keep we'll keep working. That's all right. You keep your running backs you go finish quarterbacks. I think there's a guy from southeastern west coast Louisiana, the needs you to watch on nine. Let's get I about quit talking about football. After watching drew Anderson. So you can just I just gave up. I slandered him on Twitter without being anyways. Go to the go to gum dot CO slash Casey draft. If you wanna preorder our work promo code nerd gets it to you for six ninety nine over two hundred write ups on prospects. Three over three hundred ranked we got some features Craig's got a really cool feature. I've got a feature I'm excited. Right. Some other stuff I it's going to be a great resource during the draft season. And you can get it for six ninety nine for the next couple of weeks. The promo codes are not going to be advertised as prominently after that. But here's here's a hit. For the Oji listener, my feature is less cool as those because I didn't get a shout out. But. I don't think we totally know what your feature is yet. Because you're busy writing profiles. You know, what it is? You just don't want to shout it out. That's okay. That's all right. My tigers. Both of my Tigers are still playing. We're good. But yeah, check it out if you have a minute just so, you know, we'll just tell the podcast listers right now. There might be some of these codes that we that we have are going to be active for the most part through the draft season. But we probably aren't going to be advertising the discounted price. It'll still be out there loosely. Some of these might be, but yes, so there's just a hint. There's just a hit. Maybe we'll just advertise. Naval just advertise. Discount only on the podcast because we because we love you guys. So I still wanna eight await code her. A guy that's version. Ferguson's three cone. I felt bad. A little bit of heartbreak wherever you wanna put it as high just feel bad about like spending so much time. We almost we almost talked about it on the draft show. 'cause it's just like, it's it's it's monumental in this historic. Like, we talked about having eight seconds silence. For his dress cads Zor pro day. The same day is big schools as power five schools. The issue is they drug it along. So late into the night that he was the only thing happening with people waiting for his numbers. And then they came to NFL network aimed all anybody could get networks race the Twitter NFL network brought someone out there to like be the beat writer for his report for his pro day. Shot up to Patchett claybon for going down there. Yeah. Yeah. Wait a beat. Thanks, man. Very strategically placed three cone times, just hours and hours. It actually might have been that they were waiting for him to finish. It come turns out getting starch. It was getting dark. Kept slipping. He couldn't see the cones. He was just guessing where they might be. That's what it's going to have actual only a seven nine guys. You know? Jalen Ferguson's going to be the first round pick her that. She's right. Absolutely. Yes. At twenty trade. I mean, it has to happen. Then follow that up bigger. Yep. Yeah. They're going to trade up both trade up for just go all in all the eggs and the Baker in Ferguson baskets. That's what we deserve. All this work. Wow. This thing this thing derailed all this work and all this limbs thing derailed quickly, this this thing really drill the direction of this podcast, right? There is no direction apparently. But we we're going to what we decided to do. We're going to answer the mail bag questions that you guys gave us and a couple of them were probably going to dive in a little bit. On fact, we're going to start with this one. Austin G twenty four asks my crazy to think that the current defense players coaches considered is a better unit than what Casey had last year. It can't get worse. I mean, you can but. I feel like I'm losing brain cells listening to how losing Houston forward in. Barry is going to cripple this team. I'll just start by saying this. I don't think losing Houston Ford in berry is going to cripple this team. I think the loss of deformed is significant don't get me wrong. That's the biggest one that you're losing to this point. But new energy new accountability, new leadership new blood. They don't know the history of this team's defense. Because most of that defense is gone. I mean, there's not there's not bad things to go with you know, with this with this new regime. I mean, it's a complete overhaul, and they are stripping it down to the studs. And the only stud left is Chris Jones. But. Really that is a strong slandered towards the Honey bed. I mean. Yeah. But he's a new stud left let these new stuff. And that's the thing that they talked about is they wanted to keep get this new defense going with a bunch of new parts. So everybody was kind of learning together that was something that they had mentioned during the opening press conference and stuff after they were announcing free agent moves. So the whole thing of restarting new is definitely happening. Getting rid of some of the past leaders is some it's kind of necessary. If you're rebuilding everything from the ground, right? So Joe and Chris Jones is the longest tenured member of wait for real. What about until we? Ombo? Technically. Yeah. Sorry, dance, orange already gone in my mind. I mean. I mean, very well could be I mean, it would be he and he could still be here. But I mean, if you think about there's not very many long term guys it there is it. Yeah. They've got it. Cut down to very minimal guys that have been here longer than last. I would say, okay. Let's see here. Chris jones. Dan sorenson? Eric reynaud? Sleeping here for two years. I know. But I mean that seems like time. For examples coming battle. He's not Zomba is coming back in that door at some wind time and even retake the throne is the walk defenseman. She's player as he continues to play starting snaps. I. I mean. Sam. He is my Sam Z. He's years. No rule. Okay. So let's let's just I'll Craig I wanna just gonna have Craig answer. This question, Mattie. I don't I don't wanna hear it from you. Craig tell me list the starting defense in the base for three hundred okay base for three hundred strong side, defensive end, just breathe speaks and you've got Derek Nadi as your won TEK. Chris Jones is your three tech Alex Okafor as your Leo currently on the second level. Don't listen to what the chiefs are saying we've got our our new guy Damian Wilson, which already. Damien the knee I already blanked on his name this Sunday evening Hitchens's playing the Mike during Daniel's gonna play the will on the outside. You've got the shod brilliant and kindle fuller in the nickel kindle kicks in and various ward rotates in and then you've got Honey badger as your box, safety and Jordan Lucas. Or are Monywa tes? I guess. To be named later. Say name later Boston Trayvon trae Boston would be. Maybe maybe there was tweets him where he's out. I don't know now. Anyway. So that's your starting defense though. They've got guys at every position. Now, there's not a giant hole in that starting deep well more. I mean, well, that's the next question. I at Craig started us off biggest need for a replacement player on this defense as we sit today. I think the biggest need is going to be that deep safety. I just think there's too many question marks. I like, Jordan. I like him a lot. I would like for him to be that guy. But if I had to pick a guy that this organization seems to have the least amount sorta invested in so far, I think it's Lucas of all these guys. That's interesting. So okay, I'll I'll let natty instance question here in a second. But now, I'm very curious. Should the cheese? Take a deep safety at twenty nine. Then. No. Because I just don't think the value is there. I don't think the values the same. I still think that even though deep safety is the biggest need for replacement on the current starting defense. They do still need pass rushers. They do still need Cornerbacks. Those guys are going to be needed not only this season. But as starters in twenty twenty they don't have those guys on the roster right now. So I think that those are the positions that they still need to target. They can get by with safeties. They can get by with a guy back there that got several guys in house. So I think that they'll be fine at safety. Still gotta goes corn. Okay. Chris. Matty, tell me who you think the biggest need is for replacement at this point. Then we'll thank you for letting these step in here. Now, even though you don't want to hear from me. However, my is still just a pass rusher off the edge. Like I like Alto before I wanted the chiefs to look at him. That year when there's a chance he is coming out. I think I mentioned that before. So I really like him as a player, but he's just not bringing the juice off the edge. He's not a guy that's really gonna threaten on third and seven he's not a guy that you're worried about as quarterback beating you off your tackle around the corner. You're more worried about the scheme pressure. It's gonna come from his new defense, which is great. But you still need an edge player capable of winning one on one. You need a guy. That's really pose threat. Not even just speed. It can be a power rusher can be technical repacked rusher. Just somebody that can win relatively quickly off the edge. And I don't think they have it on the roster right now not as starter. Not as a reserve at this point the relying on pressure from Chris Jones up the middle or a slow burn pass rush from a blitz a stunt or just really speaks Alex Okafor crushing pocket until the quarterback has nowhere to ago. Okay. I agree with Mattie. I think I think pass rush off the edge is still very important to this team. I mean, you think about like if Alex Okafor went down you're looking at. Ten of season. Maybe if Tana still on there. I mean, I think it's noble. Somebo undersized doesn't matter. Tell toby. Dave vouch for them. Okay. I agree with you just like specialty. Okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna give you this scenario. An you. Tell me how you feel about this defense if this happens. Okay. And I kind of I didn't want to just make it like a very optimistic perspective. I wanted to kind of make it like might be a little bit of challenge. Let's say the chiefs finish day to with clo- in Farrell in attrative Lonnie Johnson at cornerback and JJ Sega Whiteside at wide receiver in the first three rounds. How do you feel? So of that, I think I always love the for OPEC. He is one of my favorite guys in this class. I think he's being vastly. Underrated right now as I just said he fits the biggest need I see on defense probably the whole team. So I feel great about that. If you hit your first round pick in a draft. It's horrid ever walk away feeling terrible. Like, no matter what happens after their you still feel pretty good because you have the most likely to hit position player knocked out of the port with the first pick Lonnie Johnson's not my favorite quarterback. I understand the intrigue. He's a developmental guy. That has great size. You can play him up on the line of scrimmage and hope he kinda beats people up. It looks to be a great athlete. So I get to a lower but second round for me or just even day to just a little early for me to feel confident in his growth going forward. Don't see the path as of right now in the JJ light side. I mean, I guess we did talk about wanting tied into we got our move tied into their but sides that I'm in. There's other titans. I'd rather have. Followed along the same lines as mad there. I love Cleland. I think that he's a guy that can come right in and have a major impact in a rotational role. And then you can let him can't take the reins in twenty twenty and just go from there. Lonnie Johnson is a guy that if you put on his tape. He has a lot of moments where he looks like a guy who's never played for and these wrong. He's I mean, he he's rough to watch. He's just got such a very physical profile, and he's a good athlete, but I'm not in the mood for drafting just pure athletic traits in round two at that spot. So I I would prefer something different there, and then adding a wide receiver there are more dynamic options than JJ Sega Whiteside. But I can't say that I would be mad at adding another big body. This off I would love to clone investment and trading up to get in. I think you've got to trade up to them. And I would be all all in on that. And I think you're probably gonna hear us talk about clone feral for the next thirty five days, however, many weeks, and then the, you know, the few weeks afterwards because you know, he's on the run. For at least twelve yes. But it's Lonnie Johnson. Like the first off. I would not be stunned if the chiefs ended with a couple of Matt house guys because that just makes too much sense. And it's a little bit terrifying. Because I could see Lonnie Johnson being one of the second round picks like very realistically because I mean that just doesn't that just feel right? I mean, so I do not discount that Matt how's connection? The chiefs will end up with a Kentucky wildcat on their roster by could be an undrafted. But it's going to happen. I think it'll be a special teams, I would feel the safest saints via try hord leaders special teams kinda guy over the pure athlete. But I do get what you're coming from those going to be a Kentucky. I bet you. I would be surprised if it wasn't address pick. I I agree with you. I just I think if you're gonna make a pick like related directly to coach looking at it. Guy. That's kind of like a coach's favorite, which is usually a special teams leader, try hard guy. That's thing. I'm thinking, but Lonnie Johnson fits what we think that she's looking for corner. So he's definitely which that guy's gonna be Mike Edward. Yeah. I can see that they're going to. They're going to cash Daniels. Darius Darius west the teaching just not Jordan Jones. That's that's it. It won't be Jordan Jones. Okay. So I'm just gonna just throw it a number here for this where forty six. If okay clo- the jayhawks lost by right close. Okay. Mattie. Thank you for drilling. This as usual. Take take a guess where is the defensive? Where's the where's the defensive DO Devia way for a team the ads clone feral and Lonnie Johnson? I'll say twenty third. I'll say nineteen. Twenty. Okay. So we're kind of all in that. They're not quite middle of the road. They're they're they're trying to they're kicking the door down on the middle of the road. If that's all they do. Yes. I think that's about. We're going to be with the amount of money. We have I suspect another move which changes that but for this exercise where we all right now not knowing yet. I think those exact moves into that. Bottom of the last third of the best of the last third of the week. That's the point of the exercise. So okay, we are going to take a break, and we will be back right after this. I'm music colleges. Nate Sloan songwriter. Charlie harding. We're the hosts of switched on pop the podcast where Charlie and I breakdown pop hits to reveal how the music works. And why it matters. It's our job to help you find those hob moments within the music, whether you're a pop fanatic or skeptic, a teenager or an octogenarian non musician or professional composer every music lover. Will discover something you're opening in switched on pop. Yeah. And we think you'll have a lot of fun with us because you're going to get to hear from amazing guests musicians song writers producers in journalists. Listen to switched on pop. Every week starting in March on the apple podcast app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello. I'm Spencer hall from SP nation, and I wanna tell you about my new show. It seemed smart it seems smarter as a show about people doing things that for some reason or another seem smart at the time. Those things might include doing a little cocaine and driving a bike up mountain or I don't know maybe racing one hundred miles per hour across the country in the middle of the night with no one's permission or even stealing a bat from an empire is room in a major league baseball park, check it out. And if you like it tell a friend, I'm Spencer hall. Don't do anything smart. Okay. Finishing up the rest of these questions. We only got through one before the commercial break, which is thanks. This is impressive. But it was a good question. I kind of expanded on I wanted to kind of go farther down the road with that. Because it's something we've kind of talked about recently. Okay. One loss wizard asks your guests who is the best player available at number twenty nine. Jefferson's. Oh, that's a good that. That's good. That's good. That's good. That's good. Yeah. For me Chauncey Gardiner Johnson. I think is still going to be there at twenty nine. I think he's the best player that will be left. How about this? Let's go Nasiri early. I could see you know, right now, he's in the on the Casey draft guide big board right now. He's in the twenties. I could see him falling out of that first round range and beat an early second round pick. It's interesting because I think both of you guys pick safeties. I do think one of those before twenty nine but definitely not both. So there's a very good chance at whichever ones. Still left is the highest level draft ward just based like positions where they're gonna go. Yeah. One of the tackles might fall may Dillard or could use could use to see juice fall into. Jake at Jayco forty-nine numbers numbers numbers. A lot of numbers. I I should probably just read them out. But Jake shadow terrific with the digits. Talk me down from demanding Akeem Butler, my soul needs him with Mahomes for the next decade. I and that he love Hakeem Butler. He's a fantastic player. I think he's still an ascending player. Some of his best plays are as good as anyone in this class. He missed a few easy catches at times. I think is athletic profile is solid for a guy that big. I he's I think he's going to be able to separate at the next level to enough. I'm a fan of his Craig what about you? Okay. I'll play devil's advocate because I also like Hanky Butler Olot. But if you're taking a keen Butler, you have to take him in the first round he's not going to be there at sixty one or sixty three if you're doing that you now take that what we just said nineteen twenty one twenty third Devi defense. You take Cleland feral off of that. Now, all of a sudden you're talking about twenty seven twenty eight twenty nine for that deliver over hashtag score one hundred. Yes. Be able to chicks jail legal over. Jake is a here's the relate Jake's joke using the hashtag more than you. Just say it's almost like you're watching offered players or something. Okay. Sorry. Matthew, give us your take. Jake. I will get home this building ledge that you're on. And we can sit up there screaming till we are blue in the face about getting keen Butler in the team, and I'll gladly do it with you. But here's the thing. I don't think you're getting twenty nine and this isn't the kind of team that needs to trade up for a wide receiver. That's my only qualm with asking for key butlers. I think would have to move up the draft again. But this time let's stay on the wide receiver position Nate Chr four seventy nine what do you guys think about PR Garson being a third option potentially? I mean, he he's okay. I think this team needs some bodies at receiver and smart technical good hands. I think that he offers enough to kind of help this defense out if Tyree kill or Sammy Watkins wasn't able to play for a period of time in two thousand nineteen and I think it also alleviates the need to have to take a guy early. You can kind of gamble on a wide receiver later that maybe doesn't have quite the same projection. And then, you know, go after one of the excellent ones in twenty twenty. But yeah, I'd be fine with peer Garson getting added. That's how I would. I would personally rather even have Jordy Nelson. I would roll the dice Dez Bryant if he's healthy enough. I mean, it's looking at a veteran receiver that you think can come in and be trusted by Pat, I guilty who'll ready who's they think can pick up the offense to quicken. The quickest if signed like, I'm not gonna be mad about it. You're not gonna pay him a ton of money. So it is kinda those. But he just he wouldn't move the needle for me. I think he would more than likely be relegated to wide receiver four five. Once they get going by guys that are younger still little bit more explosive. I don't know are just that kind of steady super trustworthy guy that is going to continue to be savvy into his late thirties. Like, some guy the. Yeah. I mean, I I don't think I'm like overwhelmed by it. I don't think it's like something. Like, I'm thrilled with I he's he's I kind of tend to agree with what Matty said, okay? Can you provide any insight on which guys? From the practice squad or roster that maybe didn't play that much last year. The coaches might have some high hopes for taking a big step forward, maybe becoming a major contributor. You know, I think that you know, you heard a lot of stuff about them liking Brian hunter the offense of linemen as a kind of a developmental. Kind of like as a developmental offense of linemen. He's got that versatility. Where you can play inside and out he kicked out to right tackle, even he was getting looks at right tackle. The other guy that I'm really interested in that. I think they might have some interest in potentially is is rob McCray. Six to two hundred eighty five pounds tested. Exceptionally will at his pro day last year the defensive lineman from Indiana they were trying to play him make him as a stand up edge. I wonder if he's dense enough and long enough because he's I think he's got some length to maybe play as a defensive end and with that athletes ISM that flexibility, he could run stunts twist like he would have no problem with that. So maybe he gets a long look this year got injured during the training during training camp. Last June was on I r. I'm not gonna take Matty's guy because I know who say so so all bail on him. So let's okay. Well, I'm gonna go Justin Hamilton. I know that he got a lot of run there at the end of the year. But there's not really that many guys on the defensive side of the ball. Specially didn't get run that really have a chance to do. So so Hamilton will be my guy inside they need more guys inside that can kind of play and penetrate and offer a little more juice. We've seen a little bit out of Hamilton. They were comfortable enough to let Jarvis Jenkins go a guy that was playing a lot to that point last year and just on Hamilton got some run their under Bob Sutton in that defensive line rotation. I think he can come in there and kind of rotate in offer some some power and speed inside. So I think they're Lind's count for this exercise errol's bear really played a little bit. He I don't like that nickname. With real in. He showed some promise me down the field. Like you looked pretty good at loved him in preseason. He showed some flashes late in the year, given Daming Williams rest, but the signing of Carlos Hyde kind of throws a wrench in how many planes how much snatching get just because height is so consistent is a pass Walker. I really do think that's the limit. So we're going to have to hit up our guide by Pringle talked about that last week, but I really like route running in his ability to be vertical deep threat, which is going to be perfect in this offense. I would be really surprised by doesn't make the act of day roster in start getting some snatches the year goes on is he just had so many flashes in college even last year in the preseason. There's something there if you get it all nailed down. You heard Andy Reid mentioned multiple times that that Byron Pringle was probably making the fifty three. So I think that tells you all you need to know, I'll just answer with this one really quick at cheese boy are DIGI who are some young guys on the defense on the defense who showed a little juice to give. You hope towards the end of the year. I'll just answer this part because I think we've answered most of them I think Trevor Ward shows some promise late in the year. So that's a guy. I don't know if you have any more because we bench and Justin Abelson, and there really wasn't a ton of guys. I will ask you this. I'm asking you. This question guys who are the best candidates to make a leap this year. So I had to guns actually in terms of showed little juice or making. And I mean, we've mentioned one briefly. So I won't talk about him. And we talked a lot last year. But Lucas like there's enough there. And I think you have to be a little happy about what you seeing you just seems the guys rally around just other than the fact that he's seems to be a good morale guy that will give him a chance, and if he can show promise like he did earlier in the year, then there's something there. But during Daniel, I think is ready to make the actual leap. I think he's ready to be real player this upcoming year, which is a big leap from what he was last year. Let them get out. There chased up down from a better position for him. I think that's got you just going to see a big difference. In terms of what he looked like last year to this year. Yeah. And I think that a guy who kind of already made that leap last year, but I'm going to use them. Anyway, because I think he can take another step for Andrew Wylie, Andrew Wylie. I think has a starting spot on this roster are on this offense of line somewhere. And it might be that left guard position that we kind of saw camera Ving and Jeff Allen rotate through he got some reps early on in OT as and camp as the starting left guard ram with the ones there. They've tried him out there a little bit. I don't know if they feel comfortable within there. But he showed enough throughout the end of last year. He has a little bit of a nasty streak. He's athletic. He's powerful. I think that he's a guy that can come in and start on this offense of line and maybe on that left guard spot. I was thinking about something kind of within this framework the other day, I think a guy, and I don't think he's primed necessarily to make the leap, but a guy that the chiefs. Need to make a leak is brillant speaks. They need something out of him. I don't know if they're going to get out of him. But he's been put in the best situation to succeed this year. He's he's dropped into a scheme that fits him better. He needs to whatever whatever they need him to do to work his body out. Maybe they can get him a little bit more athletic. That's kind of pipe dream. But I mean, they need they need him to rework his body. They need to have an excellent off season. It's a critical offseason for him and his defense if he can help that would that would be huge. So I don't know if I expect it, but he needs to and this is the best situation. He's been in. Steve gray asks what are the cheese going to do with their remaining cap space? I think you could see them making a trade. I think there might be a vet trade that they could potentially look at got the cap space to do it. They've got the draft capital to do it. If not I mean, you're going to extend Chris Jones, probably retiree kill. Maybe. I mean, we'll see and beyond that, maybe they just roll it over in the next year. I think that at this point. It's looking like if there's no trade they're just going to roll it over, and they are going to spend like crazy next offseason in the last cheap year of pet Mahomes rookie deal. So that's why I think they're going to do yen the roll concept is scares me a little bit because I really do think it's essentially throwing away another year. Like, I understand that probably wasn't the plane going into it. But just holding onto the cash and then rolling it in the next the next year. Like what what is the goal for? This year's just is it just show a little bit of growth on defense before making the final surge. It just seems like an odd time to go that route you would have preferred to do that starting last year if that was the plan now, I get it. They were giving out of John Dorsey tap hell, so it is what it is. But I think that there's a trade that they're trying to work on. I still feel very confident. There's another movie free agent or trade coming end. This. Money's gonna go to not think they are gonna only reaches the. Kind of guy just gonna pocket money to use. It a later. Now, there's they tried to try to get was Earls earmarked for twelve mil-. With hunting like they were doing both of those guys do now spend twelve million dollars on trae Boston. I mean, like if there's nothing to do with it like, I mean, just just you know, punt and live live to fight another day. I mean, that's the thing. I just don't think that the guy is gonna punt to fight whether good or if there's anything of significance to really throw into the mix. So that's my only thing got cuts coming again, you'll have the late round the cuts maybe some of its use. Then I don't know. I don't did. You just going to be like, okay. There's nothing left that we want. Let's just hold on. I think that he might you might see more a couple more one year contracts come out just to spend some of the money this year to help. I think there's more coming in. I don't see each sitting on this kind of money. And maybe that's just be trying to read too much into early moves where he's trying to establish something as well. But he just seems really aggressive. I'll say I don't disagree with that. At all. I at the same time lets like, okay, I'm looking at it right now from where we're sitting here today, and like, I don't see any. Anything where I'm like, gotta go spend it on this this and this, and I think that's kind of where I'm coming from is like, okay. Yeah. You're right. When when the when the late cuts come there might be a couple of players that they can get into the mix, and that makes sense, but they're kind of waiting. They're letting the market dictate the situation. I guess is where I feel like they're not they're not able to press nine domico sue for one year deal. How do you? That's not a bad idea. Mattie. I don't hate it. I don't hate it. And the other part of that is when it comes down to cuts at the end of the year that she's have another nine and a half million dollars getting freed up after June. First they've gotten money need to spin. It's yeah, I feel like for the most part it's gonna be reactionary maybe in Dhamma consumers in the mix. But like, I don't know if there's is there anything beyond that that we're really looking at going. Okay. They need to go out. And do this. Would it be mad at Muhammad Wilkerson? But I don't think you're paying him a ton coming off his injury and a one year deal like, Nope. Side to trade. There's not a lot out there on the free agent market right now, I just I'm just saying like if you wanted to just spend money to spend money through couple options. I just think that each isn't gonna sit around happily taking this much money next year. I don't think he's Ballard. I don't think he's got that holding money way that Ballard does. So I think he will make something valuable for him to spend lots terrifying. Yeah. I don't disagree. I never said. It was great. I think that so this is a little bit of a tangent. But I think Ballard's a little to save money like the culture building good roster. But they could be a lot better if they would be willing to overpay for guys that they could have used earlier three agency. What are they doing with all this extra money right now, I think Dietsch is teetering on being too aggressive. And I think that's what you can see him spend some money he might be willing to overpay to get somebody. That's less than need in more of a once again. I don't see him keeping money on the side. The that's that's just does. You may he may not be wrong. You really will just the look of disgust on kids space right now. I'm out here. Trying to get picked so. Brandin four twenty two asks Rani watts or Jordan Lucas be the free safety. I think that we're a bit of a like slanted podcast asked this question. I know just what we need to broach. No people ask. And so here's the thing. I think the defense that she's gonna run is defense at Armani. Watts could play deepen is defense. It's not gonna ask him to be a center fielder in cover from hash marker numbers numbers. He's going to be allowed to limit the space. He has the cover which is allows him to play downhill bit more, which is where his ball steals. Ability to take the ball away comes into effect. I still don't love his ability madman coverage his tackling downright scares me watching him try to break down space being the last line of defense. UB frightens me. I would rather have George Lucas who's no grit tacklers own right? But he at least can provide a speed bump on, you know. Play by play basis, and he showed me enough ball skills as well. I think he has a little bit better range, I would lean towards Lucas at this point in time. And then at the same time, it's not necessarily that you need to classify it as just the free safety in that situation. If you have Jordan Lucas on the field you can put him in the slot. He played in the slot allot last year, and he shows that capability used to be a corner. So he's a guy that has man coverage ability, you could sort of disguise what you're doing a little bit more. It gives you a little more freedom. If you have both Lucas and Honey badger on the field together, those two can kind of interchange swap around where you need him too. And while Lucas isn't going to be the same guy that Honey badger is the drop off and the ability to switch between those guys still gives back a little bit of versatility at mcgruder pee Mak asks is there a possibility of trade talks out there? I asked the question about trading. Ng read this. I I'm just going to go. The question got cut off in the middle of it. Would you guys consider trading for saving Howard from Miami? Casey visits Miami in two thousand twenty Howard fits the four three scheme. I think exellent Howard fits most schemes. I mean, whether it's gonna be a four three three four. He's a very good cornerback Yee's physical. He shown enough athleticism to live in the NFL. He's he's a little inconsistent from liking. He's very feast or famine he could shut down the best receivers in the league one week in body by average even the next week. But I think this day in age that level of quarterback play even on inconsistent basis is invaluable. So if the dolphins like, they appear to be willing to trade await every single asset that could possibly think of for twenty twenty draft Catholic. Sure, why not let's pick up the phone. Let's figure out what they won't David Howard, baby. He's not in the wrong, turn plans. Like anybody else on the roster? I'm not sure I wouldn't be mad about. Yeah. I mean, they've in Howard is a definite upgrade over any cornerback that the chiefs have on the roster currently so you can't be mad at him or bad at that move. He's a guy that you could bring in and you don't have to worry about the cap space or anything like that. So I would sign him up immediately. He's a big upgrade on the back end. And it kind of gives you a little more flexibility. You don't have to target a corner as heavily early in the draft. You can maybe take a project and try and develop them a little later at Butch no way asks what are some names of players that we should read up on when the draft guide is released. Well, butch. I'm so glad you asked. You know in the draft guide. We are going to have one of the one of the features that we're going to have on there is during the in the reports we're going to have badges up in the upper right hand corner. For guys that we believe our our guys are going to be like my guy sticker that's up there. And it's going to highlight some of the guys that as we've watched they're not necessarily the best players at the position group. We may not have them ranked the highest, but they are guys that we love the way that they play. We love what they bring to the team. We would love them on our rosters or love watching them play. So one of the guys that I would pick is quarterback from central Michigan, Sean bunting. He's a guy this just shooting up draft boards right now after a crazy awesome. Combine he tested through the roof. And if you read the draft guide, you'll find out why that's important in my feature. But he's a guy that needs a lot of technique help. But he's got all of the raw ability. He's a lump of. Clay. And he's a guy that you could bring in and kind of teach him to play the way that you want him to play and utilize that athletic ability, a little bit later in the draft and the able to get a really top notch corner out of him, you know, within probably one or two years, and you have this guy on the boundary that you could really count on. So he has this locomotive credit. You get Sean Bundy we're gonna have to get the unto bus out, right? So as Craig said, the Mike I up he is laid it up perfectly. It's a guy that if we were in warmer room, we're gonna bang the table for the area that we have graded. But it's like if they're available where we have the graded. We would try our hardest. Not to let them not be on our team and my guy safety, Maryland, Donald savage stunt of his going with savage. He is some of the most fun film. I think this year like there's even dies not every Misha has the most fun filled. Most of them are but savages film. It's just a blast. He probably has the best click enclosed couple years. He's a fast player. He ran a blazing forty. He's got great acceleration. But you just watch him. He gets from a deep safety position down to the line of scrimmage or in the backfield time to outrun receivers on reverses or in blow streets up from fifteen yards away before they can even get the ball intern outfield. He just flies around like missile. Great main coverage. For safety out of the slot. He's routinely bathing quarterbacks into throwing to guy that he's playing off of he'll play off of his man, let another receiver look like they're open at date the quarterback in the phone of all they're just jump in front of it off. He did it multiple times this past season. He just such a fun player to watch in the best part is we talked about George Lucas providing a little bit of the same kind of place tire. Matthew that is exactly what Donald savage. He's a little skinnier. But he pledged that same frantic pace essentially plays the same position at the same versatility. Just imagining those two guys on the field the same time there would not just faster setting. All aboard, the savage streetcar. Bunting buses better. So I'm going to drive the tristen train here. Tristan hill. The definitely I was the first person to watch this player. Obviously, I. No Matty, did not suggest we watch him. He did not make him one of our secondary grades at all. Tristen hill defensive linemen from central Florida. He is currently sitting at eighty fifth on the Casey draft guide board. His first step for snap. Explosion is first step is phenomenal. It's it's so enjoyable to watch you laugh, I laughed a couple times. It's so fast. It already. I mean, tristen hill could get off the ball reset and get off the ball eight times the amount of time it took Jalen Ferguson to run his three. It's you know, the funny thing is I I don't think he completely knows what he's doing yet. I think he's kind of a little not controlled yet. But the first the first step the get off is exceptional his food for a guy his size too. And I think he's got pretty powerful hands. He just needs to work. He needs needs to kinda slow town. She needs to develop, but that's a guy that I think would look wonderful in Kansas City trysted hills currently rate ranked eighty fifth on our board. Sean bunting currently rated eighty I on our board and Darnell savage sitting at fifty eight on the Casey draft guide. You can't talk about yours hill. And not mentioned the fact that as a defensive tackle he has like five tackles thirty yards downfield. Great unfor- that he chased down like plays routinely that were twenty thirty yards downfield after he ran into the backfield did three circles around the quarterback. And then chased it now. So is this Jauregui, Mattie, or is this my guy actually it when somebody gets the guide he might be my God. Can I I was just your position? I mean, I don't have any Mike is because I have quarterbacks and running backs. I really like rip did. Oh, golly. Gee. Really? Wining. Yeah. Winding you know what? I hope I hope Matty gets all of his prospects. I I- Opie gets all his write ups done in time for you. Find people we've been saying two hundred but maybe it will break or maybe right at two hundred doesn't get on. Right. I I've I've watched some really bad quarterbacks. Really ready backs? I'm not I have a lot of my guys at my position. It's all the players. I've had. A bunch of positions where we split up Ed and safety interior often still were like oh, whoops. We didn't claim this guy. Whoops, up take him home. I gave Craig Sharieff Miller just how oh how kind of you to just not be adding another player on your plate. This the process. I'm really just crossing my fingers that not all right up that I don't want to that is the real goal here. I know I could tell because you're so far behind because he had so many good players that you were just putting your flag in the entire season back. It's timber. So bad about this. Shedding tier upon tier upon tier story of Judy coudl Chikomo. Komo. Okay. One more question. Country and for twenty six ask would you be okay with the chiefs moving to the top of the second round and taking rock Yaas in. So I think I think top the second rounds about where rock yesen is gonna wind going wind up going. I love him. He's on my guy player, by the way. And it just really depends on how the approach the first round. I don't think that she can trade up into the first round and go get a guy like Colin Farrell in the early twenties or late teens and also trade up and get a cornerback in the in the thirties. Because now you're looking at for day one into yes, you've addressed positions of need with good players. But that's it. That's all you've done. So that's where it kinda gets a little hazy for me. I'm not sure that they can make to trade ups like that. So if they don't do anything, they just sit at twenty nine sure. Yeah. Maybe more aggressive in round two. But beyond that. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's good player. He's a good player. And he's got his best football in front of him. He played against lower competition jumped temple for his last year of college. And then you know, kind of was able to win a spot at temple not only win spot. Tipple does this thing where they award their top nine players. The toughest players on their team with the top nine numbers and rock his very first year got awarded one of those numbers. He's a tough guy. He's a smart guy. He's going to develop I would be fine with them trading up. But only if they haven't already sacrifice them assets to move up in the first so I'm a little lower. I think Rocky's ending everybody else. Nothing. I think he's a bad play or anything. I just think there is a fair amount of work to be done in. He hits all of the work to be done. I'm not sure he has the same level of ceiling is some of the longer slightly more athletic guys. So for that reason. I don't think I'd be dating into trading up to get him. We treated out of twenty nine to draft Rockies to the top of the second round. I would like that a lot better. Just because like I said, I don't see the ultimate super high upside in don't think you're getting a ready on day one player. So when that's kind of what you're going for not shove into trading that at that point in time. But if the chiefs draft whether it's a trait backs twenty nine or if they do somehow get him late in the second round. I'm not going to be disappointed in it. I just think that I probably have seven or eight corners that I have rated a little bit higher than him right now in trading up. He would just there would have to be a lot bigger conviction that I have right now than I do with you said, you're wrong. But. This has been there's been quite done. Are we done with this fight? Are we done you know, that he said he was gonna poke the bear tonight. Because like this is a little behind the curtains, like we're all like, we're grinded. We are. We are shredding. We're shredding some contents reading tape. It's towards the end of this whole process, and it's been a day. It's been a week. It's been a March of and so I think we're just we're all kind of having a little bit more fun than normal. And I'm being a little bit more. I'm poking the bear tonight is really what it is. I, you know, how figure of all of us that are irritated. We all know that. It's you be the bear envy. Poking that they're bracing. You're still one hundred percent in the Kansas Jayhawk loss hung over. Yes. Yes. I know is the DM says we knew they sucked. All but let's be real you weren't going public with that until they were getting smacked by thirty at halftime. I buy my Tigers. On now, get worked again in the second half. It's okay. You can watch the rest of the March madness tournament just sit there lean back in your recliner pet. Your dog play with the little boy have a good time show them what real basketball looks like kids. Okay. For your Tigers. I'm surprised Andy ability. Was it your guy you love him? All actually, not like this like India's ability. He's a pretty solid guy. Just don't wanna plan in the slot of its name of one player on your Tigers. Clinton feral played for my Tigers. That's wonderful. Cleese for my okay, we're done here. That's going to do it for this week's episode. Thank you for listening and putting up with us on this wonderful March weekend. We'll talk to you later. My name is Spencer home by name is Jason Kurt. My name is Ryan nanny, we combined. We form the shutdown full Tron keep telling you this forecast is technically college football podcast. But it's also a show about care disaster regional grocery stores. We live Tennessee Batman homeowners. Associations, bears video games. Pittsburgh Batman, the hell of being trapped group, text unreliable legal advice. I mean, there's also some actual football discussion about coaches, having used contracts coaches making terrible decisions or coaches, saying really stupid things or the NC double as saying released. Yeah, there's lots of stupid things in this big dome. Beautiful sport time Arkansas decided to use a captured feral hog as a mascot, and it escaped and it wound up killing seven rattlesnakes a pig and a Coyote, sometimes we talk about okay village with if you wanna take college football. Exactly as seriously as it deserves taken come find us on apple podcasts Spotify or wherever else you listen to podcasts like this one focused. It's not voltron on. It is.

chiefs Craig Sharieff Miller Mattie Matty Tigers Chris Jones Casey Jordan Lucas Jalen Ferguson Lonnie Johnson football George Lucas Mike Edward baseball NFL Twitter Cleland BYU
AP Laboratory - Weekly Chiefs mailbag (Ep. 176)

Arrowhead Pride

57:48 min | 9 months ago

AP Laboratory - Weekly Chiefs mailbag (Ep. 176)

"Up Everybody. Aero had fried laboratory in the mailbag edition eight. is sort of starting to filter in a little bit here. Training camp is well underway and you guys brought it with some great questions as you do every week and here to help me answer those questions are my dear pals I find him on twitter at chief in Carolina Mattie Lane. Who Am friend? Hello. Kit I think news is a bit generous what's going on but that's okay that's neither here nor there and think the big news right now is we will at least see college football from three of the power five conferences and that is something that we can all look forward to right now because I don't know about everybody else but it was a long weekend on itching for some real football news BDO. Something come out of that. We still got about a month until you real- football's played eight can't get here fast enough. Let's just speed around the rest of this podcast what say you Craig I sounds great. I'm ready for football I'm ready to literally anything that's not completely edited and watered down by A. Team that's putting it out. That's not just a shot at the chiefs literally anybody right now it would be nice to I mean we we should be sitting in training camp right now we should be China team we should be giving our podcast listeners. You know what we saw you know depth chart things that we saw who looked good. What was winning what they were working on Yada Yada Yada we don't. We don't have that right now two years ago. The first time we realized that speaks is a NASCAR right? It's been a while I. Miss I Miss Training. camp. Training camp with my pals to like that's just a great way for all of us to congregate and all that good stuff and we don't get that eating a little bit I'm lamenting not being able to get my eyes. On. On, these guys finding out where area and springs is lined up. Couch on his count. Collecting that xfl check, he's probably not because they defunct. Let's answer your questions. You can you can just say, no, you can leave five star review questions. We'll answer those. You can email us at ap nerd squad at gmail.com. You can always those there. You can also do it on twitter and that's what we got today at Stephen Younger. Who plays left tackle if the concussion lingers for Eric Fisher. A. Believe Right now, Mike remers has stepped in at left tackle and that should probably scare you a little bit the last time he was a tackle on the right side, but it did not go great for the giants I. Think a lot of people probably remember Mike remers playing tackle in the Super Bowl for the panthers against the Denver. broncos involve Miller also did not go particularly well, he's not very good at tackle then you're GonNa, put him on the left side when I think he is mostly played on the right side of the NFL I think it's a bad situation. Without having Lucas Neang on the roster, you don't really have a quality backup tackle that you feel confident or think that there's like for to do well, maybe Jackson Barton or Greg's not show up wealth throughout camp durant even if they try him tackle, they can overtake Mike Remers is that backup tackle spot especially in the left side but right now it's rivers and you're just hoping one of these young guy shows up enough through camp that they could be the next guy up because if you see, Mike, remers at left tackle you're looking at another borderline cameron urban situation from last year. Get. That's absolutely the case and unfortunately, and I don't mean this as a reason for me to have not opted out or anything. But this would be kind of a dream scenario for the chiefs for Luke may get him some first team reps get him those quality camp reps some good competition in pads get him is mini-cycles as possible knowing that you know Eric Fishers concussion hopefully is not going to linger and he's going to be. Back for the beginning of the year one darkhorse name on the ones that Maddie said they're collect assembly played a very small of left tackle in Baltimore in an emergency. He's not exactly great at doing it, but you know push comes to shove. They might kick him out and leave Mike remers inside at guard where he's probably a little bit better. These statements are endorsements by the way he's just stating the potential options that there are available. Should something happen to Eric Fisher it's not great. Not Great. The clan MacLean asks Eric. The enemy was to give you a nickname or make a comment about you like he did about it his competitive nature. What would it be? So here's what I'm going to do I. Think I'm GonNa have Mattie answer for Craig. Craig answer for Kent's which is me. And allience Mattie. So matty. Give me what what is the nickname or the comet airbnb enemy would make about Craig's doubt. I mean Craig Stout has so many nicknames I. Know If AIRBNB could settle on one like there's the big renaissance man, there's just the renaissance man before he went off to the mountains Hollywood hot barley stuff. There's so many nicknames I don't think AIRBNB would with any of them I think he would just stick the comments and you know what that comment would be it would be. That's right. That's nothing. He has nothing to say because Craig Stout would leave the main speechless for the first time in his life. Is that fantastic of a person? You. Literally stole what I was going to use for can't Swanson. I hate you so much right now. So Eric be enemy would call can't Hollywood because he is the most famous of all of us. This is not just Craig. Stout. spouting it people just walk up and like the they hand can't dollars on the street because they're like man, you look famous here the money and I. It's great I I think that he call him Hollywood. AIRBNB would say something along these lines. At the end of the day. You want someone. That's GONNA come in. It's GonNa put in the work. You're going to be sure that he's GonNa put in the work. In mattie lane he does a good job. Are Far I forgot that we were GONNA get chance terrible impression. Just sad kit. Call me quick PLO. Quick. But you put in the work. Eric Peony like he's just like he's got like several words just put on like random shot. He'll just throw them in there. He uses the words be sure like sixteen times every time he talks. So I am we heard the words competitive brick together before this weekend. Thousand I it's. The auto shuffle. Generator. Every million times. That comes out. It came out this week we I have I have heard Eric Be Enemies, screen things it camp. We are getting lucky with the auto shuffle right now you guys. That's what's so that's what's so crazy about it is the persona of Eric B enemy. On the field never ever manifested itself when he's talking at a press conference in, it's frustrating because. He's the most entertaining watch it practice watching aired. Enemy coach is a delight watching Eric be enemy. In a press conference is just he? Just it's a string of cliches and it's so frustrating because I want to listen to that man talk but I want to listen to him talk without the Mike Von Listen, get a running back to the finish rep and you will hear him talk. Moaned. It's art everyone who's been training camp knows what we're talking about. Actually I think I heard no one's allowed at practice and they're not letting anybody talk about anything but I think I heard Eric enemy earlier. This week in Kansas City just yell it Clyde Edwards for something all the way out here in Johnson County late Sony forty four asked. Do you guys think the Kelsey contract was too long? Man I don't think so I think the chiefs have structured it in such a way that they can get out of it a couple years before the end of it that would make him about thirty three. The contract takes him through when he's thirty five if Kelsey starts to break down, which doesn't look like he's going to guys we are still in peak travis Kelsey and he's coming off season without an injury. I, think we're to get at least another two really good years out of Travis Kelsey before we start to see maybe a little bit of a downturn, he's still going to be very, very tight end at that point. So No, I don't think it soon. I would agree, I, don't think it's too long at all and this is travis. Chelsea's not a great athlete at tied in but I don't think you see him rely purely on his athleticism anymore like he did early in his career, he's about as technical of a route runner as you have the NFL, any position not just tied this includes wide receivers, tight ends running backs anybody like he's very good at the nuances of football guys like that can play for quite a while look at Jason Witten who is employed in the NFL even after a brief Wrigley, he's got plenty of time now will he continuously be this top one, two three producing in for the whole life the contract? Maybe not. But the chiefs, like Greg said left themselves some their he's a guy is as you get to three more years of this kind of performance out of him, you probably feel pretty good too about paying him pass that elite production pretty high money as well. He'll likely restructure at some point in time or get extended an extra year to lower it. There's a lot they can do with it and I think you're still going to look in a couple years of just elite production out of him. So there's no nothing to worry about one hundred percent agree I was gonNA come here and say I I think Travis coasties, Gay Games going to age well. Because I do think. He is relying on his ability as outstanding route runner and Mattia. Right there's just not many guys. You can I watch watch that man verse. Lonnie Johnson. who he was that was like my favorite moment. What are my favorite moments of the twenty nine, hundred sixty we don't talk about is weighed. laudi Johnson Tries Kelsey drew a flag on Lonnie Johnson and then was like it was upset asking for a flag and then Travis Kelsey kind of fake aspirin flag to. Where is it? Where is the I don't know where is it Lonnie? Favorite moments we gotta go fight I'M GONNA I'M GONNA, clip it up but like. It was just a masterclass from Travis Kelsey as a route runner just. A visceral Lonnie Johnson who deserved every single mom Iran if I'm not careful I'm I slowdown that punk Lonnie Johnson Kara fickle. You got cut like six cells that night. was. Delicious. Beautiful to watch. Why am I getting so upset about I don't know a lot of Jonathan's a punk. He's the try hard who is a Pumpkin? He's Out You're trying to hurt people. Can't has some real vitual for a rookie played in the playoffs last year for Houston Texans that drew the assignment of Solo man covering the best tied in the NFL. He did poorly at it but kid just has some hostility built up for this poor man whose life was already ruined on national television US hurting people in training camp like he's just he was just a punk. He was making Matt how he liked him. Madhouse liked him a lot so much that they drafted him. Oh wait. They did it maybe that maybe they were going to Texas, beat him to the punch I. Doubt It. Jay dooby nineteen. Different different tone here. What are your expectations for Alex Smith now he's returning from the PCP. So. Yes. Watching watching Alex Smith celebrate with his family. was genuinely just such a remarkable moment and getting to see him. In. A helmet practicing throwing the ball getting Reps. was just I honestly the fact that he's got to this point, it's just it's so cool to see on I was very moved watching some of that yesterday I think people should keep their expectations low and this is not me trying to doubt Alex Smith or on Alex Smith in any way shape or form, but even watching him celebrate with his family I was a little uncomfortable watching him move and I just I worry. Hey, you know what? I saw some people say I think I think his wife said, this is his story. This is his his life. This is how he wants to do bio means Alex I. Hope. Everything I hope you get back on an NFL field I. Hope you play I, just hope I. Hope it's in the best interest of his health I worry about them a little bit but I think it's so cool in the is phenomenal. I don't think there's a single person in the world it doesn't like or isn't rooting for Alex Smith he's a great story. He's a great person everything about him is phenomenal. It's great that he's worked his way. So incredibly argument we all kind of watched a documentary and sure that's just scratching the surface of what he had to go through. And he's back. He's able to move around like a person again. Now, he has now been cleared by his doctors and by clean doctors to return to football I just hope he doesn't. He just watching him walk around driveway like he looks like a person that has suffered a severe leg injury and is still trying to figure out how to cope with it, and now you're going to attempt to put. Him on a football field with other people trying tackle him, hit him and chase him around I. Just I can't sign up for that I. Like him too much as a person i. do think it would just be incredibly dangerous. Obviously people that know a lot more than me have cleared him for these activities. So this is what he wants to do go for it I just I can't watch these. Just watching him celebrate with his family on the driveway. He did not look like he could even just walk the same way he did before putting other people around him trying to hit him it would just scare me for him because of how dangerous it was last time when things went poorly I love Alex Smith I want Alex Smith to take a football field because that's what Alex Smith wants to. Do I don't care if he goes out there he throws three interceptions goes over seven and the Washington football team loses game because of him because I will still gladly watch that Alex Smith deserves everything that he he can get out of all of this. Yes I understand the worry. Yes. I saw the video as well. I also saw him throwing today the video that the Washington football team put out there. I thought that he actually looked a lot better in those videos than he did the celebration videos we will see certainly the Washington football team is going to do a good enough job for putting him on the field. Let's hope they're not all idiots in that organization and they're not going to risk the health of somebody like that. So with that. mind. Get Alex out there I. WanNa see I wanna see him take another, snap his just a snap that does nothing on the field I. think he's He's just earned that and I wanna see that for him. What made me laugh? A Little Bit Clinton McKenzie one I have noticed that your collective tone has changed in recent years when discussing Dave Tobe. Has Changed from great respect almost reverence for a special teams abilities to what I perceive as grudging tolerance for. Am I correct if so why thank you very much. That is a phenomenal question. Clint you're not wrong about the grudging tolerance, but that mean that we don't think Dave tove is an excellent special teams coach. He is. He really is an excellent special teams go down. Think of US think a maybe these guys will prove me wrong but I don't think any of us think that Dave Tobe isn't a phenomenal special teams coach. Dave job just gets way too much say. What this roster does the guys that he puts on it guys, he gets to keep win some other positions that could maybe contribute in a bigger way an offense or defense that are frankly this pains me to say being as the newly appointed special teams analysts. Bride God you're so good at that tail more. Important than special teams. He just gets to keep a lot of dudes that that we wouldn't keep if we were doing a roster construction thing but dave himself is a phenomenal special teams coordinator. Here's my problem I don't know if my tones changed a lot. I think maybe my opinions on him warn as clear before it's definitely gotten worse over time. How good of a special teams coach is dave out he's everyone's GonNa sit here and say good and all I see is a guy that gets the dedicate like of twenty five percent of the roster to just special teams. Yes. Your special teams unit better be performed pretty darn good when you get ten the say of every other special teams coordinator in the entire NFL like get S- almost doubled the guys that do nothing but play special teams he gets the lock. Them. On the roster when if you put them on the actual defense defense or offense, they are going to be huge net negatives like I don't understand how he sees the best special teams coach in the NFL right now or one of them win win is he ever taken a subpart unit in elevated he gets these freaky fast guys that are great returners in college plugs into the NFL and guess what they're still freaky fast great returners don't know how much of that is Dave told special teams coordinating and how much of that is the fact that he says, Hey, give me the worst receiver because he can return kicks guys. Harrison butter. That's that's my entire response to that many Harrison Book. So your rationale is the kicker got hurt and we had to find one off heap and he found the one that's that's right Mattie. Yeah it's just it's all about just how much influence he has, and I think. That's really what it is i. mean that's just like if you boil it all down to that. Anthony Sherman, they are not moving on from Anthony Sherman against Sherman's a four core special teams player. There's there's sometimes they lack of sealing players that the chiefs keep that could potentially contribute to their defense with their offense at times. That because they need to make sure that Dorian Daniel has a spot on the roster. Or Armani watches probably going to make the roster this year even though he's not rostro on defense. These are the realities. So when we look roster construction in our guesses. Marcus kept stretched his career out. How long was he new League for two years? He stretches out two years longer than he could or should have guaranteed or probably to doyle asks who do you think might be a surprise to make the roster. I, don't know how much of a surprise it is anymore, but Nick Kaiser at tight end seems like he's getting a fair amount of run with the ones. Now Dion yellows hurt but he seems to be playing the second tied in with Travis Kelsey for the first team offense. He's even made a couple of different highlight videos granted. One of them was a fumble, but he's made a couple of different highlight videos for the chiefs. So just seems in camp he's at least getting his chance to showcase that he's. A Guy Worthy of making the roster. I do think he's probably the best blocker beyond Travis Kelsey in a good blocker to be in line after him. So I think he makes a lot of sense and he just seems to be getting the work right now while the elders out I also find it interesting that the chiefs went ahead and signed a free agent tight end this just today that makes me think Diani elder might not ready to come back super soon, which is opened up even more for Kaiser. Damn looking ahead a little bit. So I'm not going to use one of the ones from a future question here I'm GonNa go with Jackson Barton I had him making my offensive lineman fifty-three when we did the preview a little while back I think with Lucas neons opt out and Mitchell Schwartz or not Mitchell Schwartz but eric fishers concussion I think that May. Be Jackson Barton might just be kept just because he's a pure tackle and a practice squad at him all last year he's been in the building for a full year. Now I don't think that he's a guy they wanna let go of and I think that they're going to keep him around. So I would fully expect him to make the roster at this point. When when campus on lockdown and there's really no information being allowed to be disseminated to out throughout the. Chiefs twitter sphere. When we're just kind of on lockdown, you have to look into everything you possibly can so yeah. We'll talk about Jodi Fortson here in a little bit. But one of the things that you like I like to do I like to see who the chiefs are profiling all their daily photos. And it looks like Rodney Clemens might be getting a little bit more loving the Fotos and that's a place to start. You got to look into every little piece of information you can when there isn't any Rodney Clemens. Is getting a little love and he just happens to be at the thinnest position I think on this roster and if Armani Watts if if Rodney, clemens can be a special teams contributor the way Armani Watts can he probably could football better than our money I just want to stick out there since you're looking at people that are people and things that are featured in the photos Everybody take a look at those photos and look Eric Fisher Gut. For a second, it's not it's not great. My man normally shows up in a camp in phenomenal shape Not Not, not ideal. Now he's going to be fine. He's a tackle. It's fine but. Don't know there's a picture of him blocking and the belly is hanging over the pants like it's a back of you and it's not supposed to look. It looked rough but hey, looks good. Really speaks and we're GONNA talk about him here in a few minutes and we're gonNA take a break and we'll talk more about that right after this. Continuing, your questions from twitter chief Lutts, eleven asks which position as it stands. Now is your most concerned I am not going to take the low hanging fruit. I'M GONNA go at linebacker. We just haven't heard a whole lot of gave right now i. he could be doing phenomenally and maybe that's why we haven't heard anything at a willie gay right now. So I still think that position needs a lot of talent needs a lot of athleticism Anthony Hitchens, Damian Wilson and Willie. Gay should be your starters. But then after that, it just kind of falls off the cliff here I worried about what happens if there's an injury I'm worried what happens if somebody didn't pick up playbook willie gay if you didn't pick a playbook quickly then we're back with the lack of athleticism achieve saw last year so that worries me. So. Cheese, I don't recognize cornerback as a position in football. So I'm not going to choose it. I'M GONNA go with offensive tackle, and actually I was GonNa Bring Up Eric Fishers weight gain if it hadn't gotten brought up already here, but we talked about at the top off attack them death is non-existent for this team egg fishers currently dealing with a concussion he was injured last year the last time we saw him play real football. It was one of the worst games I've ever seen from an offensive tackle and it was all his fault. It's not like he was playing terribly he just could not handle young Bosa. So now you're coming back this year, you show up incredibly overweight compared to your normal way. I don't know if this is something that was planned by the chiefs. I, mean we've talked a little bit about how maybe the chiefs are trying to. Get their offensive lineman a little bit bigger a little bit stout or stronger care less about how good they aren't space because we're not running thirteen strains a game. So it's possible that they were told that they can show up a little bit heavier this year but after Fisher after Mitchell Schwartz, I don't feel good about what's behind them and from the little bit of information we have right now I'm a little worried. Eric Fisher. is going to regress back to what he was three four years ago. A lot of shape not ready for the start of the season. You know he's got a couple of injuries. Now they're starting to pop pile up concussions can linger throughout the whole season. I don't like what's behind him if you fisher. If you lose. Schwartz for any extended period of time and that's a rough situation for an offense Lineman, it's already not very strong. cornerbacks low-hanging fruit, and try to get. Creative? I worry about the exposition specifically because if Sammy Watkins desert, there's no one can really do it. Byron. pringles like I big by pringle fan here I like Byron wrinkles not as big as bat lane. I'm still worried about the exposition because there's not a ton of dudes out there that can play the exposition. Bacall Hartman cannot do it. That is not his game and that's not knocking Nicole Hardman you want him playing in the slot off the line of scrimmage free releases running fast down the field that's as big a strength. His biggest strength is not changing directions. It's not breaking off a comeback. It's not running a ige. It's it's it's. It's best being fast being off land scrimmage. That's a really difficult position to replace the you didn't have to lean on Travis Kelsey played in that way. So look a lot more you become more predictable. Damarcus Robinson maybe you know he can play a little bit of explicit I'm not excited about it. I'm worried about the experts, Sammy Watkins, a sneaky valuable in next year when they move on from Sammy Watkins or if they move on from Sami walking, they're going to be looking for an ex they need X. type. So it's not just going away with Sammy Watkins and all of a sudden like they had to figure out the exposition. And that's why like Sammy? Watkins so much because he's versatile and he's so he's capable plan the ex but he lines up in those bunch. That's great. He looks great there he can up about everywhere you want him to so. I, he's a valuable football player Captain Denny. Asks who would you be more surprised at making the fifty three man roster Bruin speaks or Jodi Fortson My have the times change. I'm. Let's. Let's just say this is. An educated guess. Here. I think bruins speaks is making this football team. I think there is some. Excitement. About how he is look so far? With his with his how slim he is I mean it's literally how he looks. He looks great he's in the best shape of his life I. Know that's a phrase that gets thrown around, but he looks to be in the best shape of his life. I think he's making this football team. I know Jodi Fortson. Is Impressing. But unless he is a guy that's creating consistent separation, he's always just going to be a catch point guy and how often is pat? Mahomes just throw in catch point guys the ball I mean Kelvin Benjamin got one back shoulder fate before before you got tired and retired. I would I'd still surprised at Jodi Forza makes us football team Jodi Fortson isn't a battle with Ricky Seals Jones as guys that are not quite athletic enough to separate wide receiver but our big red zone targets in one maybe lines up a little closer to the center of the field. But I mean not really I think if either one of those guys make the roster, it's very specifically for the red zone. I think they're competing with one another and I'm not sure either make the Roster Bruin speaks I feel pretty confident saying he will. Make the roster he's GonNa play. Defense. VIN defensive tackle probably not with you know the way he looked but could take the sidetrack down. This brilliant speaks looks great. He might be impressive at Camp we don't really know at this point in time, but he looks really good. The issue is and this has been my problem with Brune speak since the moment we drafted him he gives you eighty to eighty five percent of what you want to the rest of it's just not their ruined speaks comes in looking real good. He looked slim he looks. Trees in the best shape of his life, he then tells you that he got there just by running with an old trade that he had when he was younger like I don't need my two hundred, eighty pound defensive end running a marathon I want to hear about how you're getting more explosive how you're working on your bed how you're trying to get better at a way that helps you play your position like awesome. You worked really hard to get your weight down from what it was last year putting in a ton more work now but. Let's maybe not just run to get there like any excitement that I had for Bruin speaks transformation just from where he was last year. Now kind of away when he just said that he did it by running the bunch I don't need to hear him run a bunch I need him to try to translate to that football field. I can't wait to see speaks I. think some people are expecting a huge year from him. I, just need a reason to think that he's going to have it, but he definitely makes a team before four does. Yeah I you can go ahead and sweep it with that but just a touch on that a little bit for those who aren't aware Brillon speaks met with the media on Sunday and specified that the reason for his weight gain is that he went back to his seventh grade trainer and seventh grade trainer had him running you mean wait running and running and running resulting in a significant weight loss. That's not necessarily now, we don't know the full training regiment I don't I don't want to pretend to know the full training regiment but that's what he said and that was the reason behind all the weight loss he dubbed. He mentioned twice that it was just a lot of rowing correct. He did say it was a lot of running that doesn't improve his flexibility that doesn't improve his explosion that doesn't approve a lot of the things that we maybe have a problem with I. Never had a problem with Breeden speaks as motor that was his best attribute. He could go all day long at three hundred pounds now he's cutting someone down. You looks great. Maybe he'll be able to go a little bit. Faster move a little bit faster but that doesn't fix this flexibility necessarily that doesn't fix that explosion that doesn't fixed some of the things that were the reason why we wanted him to play inside as a defensive tackle where we felt he could thrive. So I do think he's going to make the roster I do think it's going to be at defensive end and that's a big change from where I was three months ago. But one month ago one month ago two weeks ago. Yeah. I just I just worry about all of this. Did he just lose weight to lose weight? Did did he go back to a coach that maybe wasn't looking at the defensive imposition specifically and he just ended up losing a lot of weight and maybe that's going to adversely affect him because he's not going to be able to set an edge or play with as much power as he has in the past. Chief boy are Digi if geared dear makes the fifty three man roster. It seems like he'll take spot from a relative unknown young player what player not making the cut because of deeter taking the spot will make you the most upset or disappointed. Byron Pringle. Because Virus Pringle does everything Gary Peter Does just better he's also good on special teams like Gary Leader. He can actually receive her he seems to know more than one receiver position based on the limited reps that we've seen I don't see any reason that you would keep geared dealer. Over Byron Premium I could not tell you one thing that I have seen on the field that he does better. Now you wanna tell me the gear near knows the playbook Petterino's Assignments will better maybe I can't answer that question for you whatsoever. But were talking about keeping the guy that's got a very limited upside and you're cutting play like buying who's flashed the ability to be useful at the NFL on offense aim has made plays on special teams. You're losing it a two way player. You know your core special teams player that way anyway, keep the better guy on offense that can maybe fill in if you need to. They can also play special teams. Yeah I would be upset at Byron Pringle I would be upset at just a Moseley honestly right now he he is a guy that the chiefs I think are a little bit higher on us or on than the rest of us toby's Dave Tobe is because Andy I think told Dave Tobe, we're going to use McColl Hartman a little more on offense, and so you're not going to get in for every return and by the way you get approximately eight tyreek hill returns on the season. So you better make sure that you use those wisely Justice Shelton Moseley. Is a good returner haunt returner and kick returner. He can garner a little bit. He is a truly four core special teamer. If you are going to keep a guy just for that purpose, I think he's an impact punt returner and impact kick returner I. think that that makes a bigger difference in the overall you know roster construction then Gary debtor who does know the playbook and can contribute on offense but I think you're going to get a season long of Justice Sheldon Moseley see we advocate for specialties player sometimes around here on the laboratory you're damn. Right. Let's just say cut down day and I see that the chiefs have waived Domoni Harris and kept Gary Dealer. Just on its face I'M GONNA be upset because like Dimona Harris like I don't think he's just a world beater anything but he's a he's a rotational NFL defensive end. I, think I saw enough from him to say like he is a rotational player in this in this league and I don't see Gary Eater as a rotational player in this league. So I liked him only Harris, they can have club control for another couple of years if they keep them around and defensive end up going to be a big deal. Now, that's just kind of looking on on its face because there is number crunches at these positions that she's have a lot of options at defensive end that decisions are going to have to make. I would. I'd be upset to see Dimona Harris gone because the chiefs kept deer, it wouldn't be an apples to apples pears generally speaking are we just upset if they keep? Peter. Like is there. Is there any chance that they could keep deeter and there would be nobody caught that would be weird rather have over. I mean, I'm not GONNA get that upset about number fifty, three or number fifty two. I don't know. I. He's. There's probably some value to knowing the offense. And having good report and good chemistry with with the quarterback which she has play. And play a little I think he's probably okay I mean. I think he's best inside I think so too. But maybe not in this offense. It's a weird fit I I agree with you that I'd rather have the Mony Harris I. Don't know how upset I would be of Domoni Harris. Does it make gear Peter does but that's what sparked. The question is like we're kind of talking about guys that are already on the bubble like I don't think there's a chance that Gary Peter makes fifty three, the any of us would have I don't think either any of us have geared top sixty player on the chiefs roster right now. So just like at what point does it go from just not making it to being upset? Yeah. No I it's it's a tough question of. Frustration disappointments relative. It's all relative. West Burns asks over under eighty targets for Clyde. Edwards. Layer. Under but not by much I I think clydes going to get a ton of targets in this offense I. Think we're already seeing it like people were talking about how when they were doing some drills that wasn't staying in to pass pro like they were flexing amount out a lot and he was running with the wide receivers for some of the routes and everything like that. That's good that you're seeing the development of him as a receiver in Andy Reed's offense already I think he's going to get a lot of targets I just don't know that eighty is peaceable for Clyde Edward. Eighty eighties a lot for a team that has tyreek Hill Travis Kelsey, Sammy? Watkins if he's healthy McColl Hardman, you're going to get some other targets other. That's just a lot of targets for a running back for any player coming at the end of the pecking order here. So I'm going to have to go with the under I think you'll be very impacting for it I. Think he's GonNa change a lot of games just by the threat of him coming out of there but eighty targets I just don't see a chance for him to get that given all the other weapons on the offense right now. Yeah. That was tough I. Don't think he's GonNa, get eighty. I think if you set the line at seventy I think about it. I. Think I think Kareem Hunt his rookie year got sixty three targets. I could see somewhere around there. I could actually I actually think he's going to get a few more than that but I think eighties tough seventyish. I'm probably they're frankly. And rebar, check. Wins should the cheese draft Chelsea's retreive Kelsey replacement does his new contract change that what does this upcoming tidying class look like? I think Travis Kelsey contract the length of it Kinda means that you're not going to be hard looking for a titan. In this upcoming draft I will be upset if somebody like fryer mouth or kyle fell the chiefs at thirty two, I don't think they will like especially with pits I'm not sure exactly how you're going to work in him and Kelsey for the next three to four years and then you're kind of. Coming up to the point where you're having to pay both at the same time issues the league investment right now for another tight end, that's clearly going to be your tied into. So I think you're probably another year or two away and I have no problem overlapping in early even around one draft pick, it tied in with Travis Kelsey for a couple years as this length of contract makes you think that she's believed. Kelsey be around for a while in less. You're getting a guy that you also feel very good about being a quality blocker for a while that might develop into a Travis Kelsey level receiver I just don't see the urge this particular season for the draft class for the drafts. This draft class, I've ever though very, very good. The two guys off the top I think a cut above the rest of them you. Have your choice of guys that can block maybe a little bit of a Red Zone target smother guys that are more yards after the catch type tight ends with Brevin Jordan of Miami, like it's a really good died in class. I. Was really excited for the chiefs to potentially look. They're just this Kelsey contracts going deep enough with enough money that I think they're going to shy away and go towards other bigger needs. Travis Kelsey played in ninety, two percent of the snaps of the chiefs offense. Last year, that is an insane amount. This is not a situation where you Dr- you could. Address a move tight end in this next year's class, and then try and soften the the workload for Travis Kelsey maybe that would have and you have to have him agree to it, and you'd have to be a star change from what's going on Blake bill get forty percents of the snaps last year. Blocking. and. So you would probably need a blocking tight end. That's probably where you're looking. That's not what you're drafting Travis Kelsey replacement to do. You're drafting him to be a move tight end so I don't think that with the new contract that that means that they're going to be addressing that any time soon, but we'll see. Dare. Greeland asks what new wrinkles to the office do you see Andy Reid adding the season specifically with the addition of Clyde Edwards Allaire. Bubble screens to back sets or what well, I think Clyde Edwards Larry in some ways is the wrinkle. I do think they probably gonNA run and maybe a little bit more inside zone this year more inside runs period. I think that that is something just we've been talking a lot about this with with. Old Line construction the way they operate the Shears, the size and strength. You're not getting those great movers across the line these days. So I do think you know that's that's to be something I. I think they're going to. Maybe he's even a wrinkle, but this has been talked about a little bit but we probably need to remind people getting Clyde. Edwards a layer on the field. Completely eliminates your ability to under like to have tendencies. That's invaluable Little Unicol to wrinkle. Just, the fact that Clyde Edwards layer is going to be on the field at all times is invaluable. Because you can't you're not tipping teams off on what's happening in wind is happening so If Clyde Ariza stay on the field at all times. are going to. There's so many possibilities. I do think that they'll get him out of the backfield a lot. I. Think they'll. Probably he'll run a more complex route three than than what the cheese asked. I. Mean I think he he did things that three different backs were capable of doing. So like he ran I did an article earlier this year it's like Clyde can do all the things they asked with Shawn, McCoy Damian Williams, and Darwin Thompson to do separately. That's massive. That's huge and I think. A lot of the tweaks are going to be just about Clyde I think largely. I agree. I. Think your biggest changes are going to be the fact that when you Clyde Edward Taylor out there defense doesn't know if it's a run they don't know if it's passed they don't know if it isn't run that's going to be outside zone because that's all you're running back. Do there's a lot more mystery to what the chiefs offense is going to have it when he's out there so I think that in itself is the most important aspects. Then you add the receiving ability, you're see I think running backs up. The seems we saw a lot of a lot of wheel routes with Andy Reid. I, think they're going to be more effective cluttered, Taylor but I, think you'll get a few more seem routes. I think Daryl Williams caught one this season but if not, he definitely did two years ago, they could get a few more those you're going to get a lot of Texas or ankle routes over the middle of the field. These are all things that are already in there. I just think they're going to be a lot more effective with Clyde retailer one new wrinkle that I think we will see. The chiefs love their three by one set with the deep overs, the vertical route and everything. Later, the year is team started adjusting to that one change. The chiefs made they would shift the running back over to the three wide receiver side that essentially made it four by one it messes with a lot of rules but if you're just running Darwin Thompson out into the flat, no one's going to respect that after a while, they're just going to expect you to be able to make that tackle and space one. You can't do that to cloud there he's GonNa, make you missing space. A ton but to you can put a, you can tag a real row onto him from that four by one set he comes off a little bit delayed. You have all these other fast receivers clearing a bunch of space with these deep over routes in vertical rods. That's just leaving a lot of room for him on option routes going out whether you WanNa cut back in the middle that you're going to see a lot of those three by ones just with Clyde Edwards Hilar- off to that three wide receiver side and give him a lot of space to work in the passing in. My memory might be hazy but didn't they do that against the chargers the second time around get for the first time. The I know is the first time to the second time especially because they were they were playing the coverage, they taking away the deep overs and they started about three or four times in that game they shifted it over and they just missed a wheel route I. Believe Damian Williams, but it could have been somebody else but they just missed a wheel route touchdown on it and they sit him on a wheel route off of that three by one with offset to that same side and it's there. It's something they're going to do it. I think you're GONNA see it a lot more with Claude this year I think they did something like that with shady. In the whacked. The first time around and maybe I think it was I think he was he was on the three by one or on the three receiver site. I'm this is all spitballing I could be flipping it and he was. Winding. Up with Kelsey I don't know. But I they there was a lot of space 'cause they were. You know the chargers were working for depth so much and then just that little dump down given I think they hit shady a couple times in a row. From a defensive perspective when when you get that running back shifting and making it basically a four by one set, you've got kind of a flow, the defenders flow to that side of the field to try and compensate for the flood that happens there. Clyde is a good enough athlete on that angle or you can kick out of the backfield and drag across their the opposite flat. If there's enough time and work against the flow of the defense there and find space not only you can hit that wheel. If everybody you know basically floods out of that area, but you can hit the opposite side of the field as well on a draft it just. Opens up everything by having a guy like that they can run those kinds of routes when the chiefs already do so much of their slot receivers out of that going against the grain like they're already seeing both slot receivers of times across the field on the over. So you can send Clyde you can just replace them vertically at the field on the same routes that I talked about or wheel route you can send him against the grain too and that you have levels and still your flooding across the middle the feels like there's so much stuff you can do with it that messes with assignments and the way teams were playing the chiefs at. The end of last year, either dropping the backside linebacker or the safety to cover those deep over essentially trying to trap it over there. That just means one less guy that can go to that four by one side and you put all that space out there for like Clyde in the open space it's just it's so my expect to see more because I thought we'd see more of it against the forty niners a distant company for wishes, I think. You'll see it a little bit more this year a lot of the times when the chiefs were late motioning they're running back. It was to turn it into a four by one and it's so cool. Andy Reid when he wants you to think. He's GonNa have you think and what he wants you to react he's GonNa have you react so even the motions the nature of their motions if it's a late lazy motion where the ball's getting stabbed in the running backs `bout into the sideline or if it's just a quick early motion eighty his timing on motions just like that when he wants you to think. He when he wants to you think he's GonNa make you think and when he doesn't want you and you wants you to react is going to do that's even just the timing of his motions I'm telling you plays an impact and all this. So yeah like bill late motion the running back and all of a sudden they're having to communicate because it's four by one all of a sudden those kinds of things I Darwin. Thompson. I believe I. Don't know if it was four by one or three by one or three by to Darwin Thompson late motion screwed up. He had a wide open ingle route because of the linebackers they communicate in the AFC championship Game Pat in through because entrust them now he's Gonna be trusted. Now he's got someone he can trust running those routes cloud layer if he's getting opening getting opportunities like that he's GonNa make people pay. A wild guys that we we just dove in on that question like it football. We desperately want football to be here. You guys. This is what it feels like. This feels very football ish. This feels like football conversations. We have had a chance to do it on this kind of scale little while because there's there's football things to talk about. Proves peaks weight looks good. I these are things that we could actually react to. Sports Talk Evan. Would a perfect season facing and beating the Sean Lamar and then Russell Wilson the super bowl while having a perfect passer rating in the Super Bowl enough to get Patrick Mahomes to number three on the NFL, top one hundred. Let me tell you something brother. Oh. Patrick mahomes will never break the top four because they home Finley going to put that chip on his shoulder constantly GonNa make it because it makes a good ratings. It makes for great ratings. They GONNA put that ship on that man shoulder for the rest of his career Hollywood. He came back. The head the this. House your voice feel. Hey Yo. Let's go. The real case swag seems like we are the cheeser pretty banged up thin at cornerback right now. Are there any good outside options we could bring into give chiefs of depth? What is a cornerback? I? Don't think I've seen one of those associated with the chiefs in a minute. I think there's a guy a keep leap plays that position I don't know if we could use that or Tremaine. Johnson Baby Ross cockerels contract fell through I think reciting with the giants. These are all guys that I. Just they could step in and they could provide some depth at least got back. Maybe they could step in and even be a little. Bit Better because some of them. Pretty good players at some point in time I'd be fine with any of them. They Drain Johnson's going to be a little pricy. The other to those shouldn't be too expensive cockerels ads experience with Steve spagnolo before I don't think he's your prototypical outside guy, but he can play it a little bit if you need to keep to. Fits exactly what the chiefs liked to do on the outside if he can still play. So just some options out there I just I really don't think the chiefs are that interested in investing heavily and outside cornerback because they've had a lot of opportunities to, and they just simply haven't done yet a space for. I live in Green Bay and of heard nonstop about darnold savage being a star at safety. Not sure how much you saw of him. But I'm curious if one thornhill taken forty two picks later would-be your pick between the two of them after one year. Oh, absolutely. I want thornhill fits with the chiefs are trying to do opposite of tyrant matthew so much better than darnall savage darnold savage isn't a bad player. Donald savage is a great player. We gave him a high fifth grade in the twenty nineteen chiefs draft guide. We also had Wong Thornhill ranked significantly higher than Darnold savage in the twenty nineteen KC chiefs draft guide so. We would go with Thornhill I. Believe I think that he just allow tire and Matthew to operate that middle the field that underneath zone a lot better and keep a lid on everything. We saw him getting up speed. We saw him growing into the speed of the game putting his high intelligence on the field, and that was becoming an impact player by the end of the year darnold savage very good. Want Thornhill is better. I actually think I had I had a higher grade. Darnell savage they'll come back I believe I know I had a migrate on them I think he ended up the low thornhill the traffic. If I had, it was a little bit higher grade and it was for the simple fact. I thought he was a little bit more versatile coming out of college in Thornhill was in terms of what you'd use them. But for the chiefs I would take one four Hilton at ten times and I think even after year even for the Jeeves, I would be hard for me to think that one thornhill was more consistent flash equally as high of an. And will be just as good if not a better player than Darnell savage and I still liked arnold savage. I, thought he had a good year a little banged up. I. Just thought he was a little bit more up and down than want thornhill who just got steadily better as the year went on both of them are very good. You can give either one. Of My football team and I'm happy. But for the chiefs specifically want thornhill makes a ton more sense. He just darnold savages too close to tire and Matthew and not that that's necessarily a bad thing. Just you need somebody that's a little bit more natural as a free safety centerfield kinda roaming the back and roll I. Think one thornhill just perfect for that job. Yeah. No I think you lose a little bit without one thornhill being on the field and adding Donald Savage but it's not you don't gain some things. It's just I think there is some more versatility in more complimentary football on your in the back of your defensive is one thornhill one thing though I think about in which. which is a pro for darnold savages. I believe darnold savage went through an entire season without hurting himself and one thornhill. Still hasn't practice yet. That is one thing to keep an eye on there. It's a little bit concerning frankly I mean i. I was really hoping that we'd have them back by now we're three weeks from I believe we're a little bit less over three weeks from the start of the season and there's still There's still no one thornhill to be seen. See Drift twenty four. Can you talk a little bit about the long term ramifications of all the extensions that came this year? When will the cheese have to start making some really hard choices you hit on it now but with Kelsey extent as well would just like an update. But I think there's some different opinions on this one of our good friends chief bearcat. He has really good cabin site. He's very good at doing all the money stuffed figuring out the numbers the figures thinking of ways things can be changed. He thinks the chiefs are going to be in a better spot next year than I. Do I think that she have to start making tough decisions starting next year in two thousand, twenty, one, I think that it does not look pretty from where they stand right now I, think they stand to lose think I worked out to about six or seven starters, and then another four ish impact players guys that played significant real snaps all in free agency and you're doing that all technically over the cap at this point in time. That's scary to me like that's a bad situation to be a anat argue let's thanks next year. Not only are they going to have to play a really close to the vest in terms of free agents that they signed, but it's GonNa be hard to pick and choose which guys come back which guys don't. You can't realistically replace that many players in this year's draft next year's draft and signing street free agents or hoping these guys developed you know through one season I think next year you just start seeing guys get cut or not brought back. You'd prefer to come back if you're in a little bit better situation. Yeah that could definitely be the case. I. Don't know that we see the full ramifications of these extensions yet because of the way that they're structured, we see a lot of know signing bonuses. We see a lot of ability for the chiefs to move these contract numbers around in the future and I said on the Travis Kelsey special that we released on the. Day that he signed that the way that they've done this, they've left themselves the ability if Kovic Hits Big and twenty, twenty, one cap is very low they can restructure a couple of these guys work it out in a way that makes sense to save the most against the cap next year and post some into future years when the TV deal might hit. If it's bigger than expected, maybe they don't need to move it around. We will see they may get themselves into a situation where they have to restructure too many guys to account for the cap and worked themselves into a way that they can't get out of it easily, and they lose a bunch of key contributors and don't have cap space to return them. We're. GonNa see next year because you might see Chris Jones Travis Kelsey. Patrick Mahomes have significant restructures next year a single year after they you know did not Frank Clark. Did it this year but a single year after they signed the contract you may see them do significant restructures just to save cap space. That's the true key as to if these contracts were bad or not. I think some of it depends on how some of these. Draft. Classes do to because if the chiefs were able to get some of these guys that. Some of these day three picks if they can hit on some corners here, this year legit snead. If Bo p keys can show something and one of them stands out makes decisions in their process a lot easier because maybe they can continue to not invest a ton of money at the cornerback position. Bruin speaks to are going to lose a lot of defensive ends this year it's basically Frank Clark and Mike Dana. Ambulance. Speaks like Damian Mike Dana they need a brilliant speaks to step up and be more than what they've been to this point what they were drafted at I mean if Mike Dana hits. that. That's a big help for their roster development like these young guys you know some of these undrafted free agents they can one of these can stake all these little things can can go a long way in helping this decision making process be a little bit easier. And kick the can down the road a little bit but it's GonNa come there's GonNa be a couple of points where there's GonNa be some frustration there is and there's going to be difficult decisions that they're gonNA have to make in the next couple of years are that is going to do it for the mail bag episode. Thank you so much for your questions. We will be back on Wednesday as usual we'll get. Hello.

chiefs travis Kelsey football NFL Clyde Edwards Sammy Watkins Hollywood Craig Stout Alex Smith AIRBNB twitter Eric Eric Fisher Mattie Lonnie Johnson Andy Reid US
The Inclusion Payoff

The Indicator from Planet Money

09:41 min | 9 months ago

The Inclusion Payoff

"N. P. R.. Everyone is busy indicator from planet money. Today I'm joined by an old friend of the shows economists, Lisa Cook of Michigan State. University. Because Lisa has just released a study that offers new ideas for how to make the US economy more innovative more inventive by first making it more inclusive. Liza. Walking back to the show. So excited to be with your gang Carter so we want to take a second to set up your paper. For our listeners here because it starts with a mystery with a kind of puzzle. So you discovered that the share of college graduate degrees in science and engineering that goes to women has been going up through the last few decades and it hasn't quite caught up to the share that's going to man it's not fifty fifty but still the share of those degrees that women get has been going up and of course, these degrees in. Science and engineering. Those are the degrees that we associate with people who are going to invent new things, new technologies, and yet there has not been similar progress in the sheriff patents for new inventions that ended up going to women, and so you looked at that and then separately you also looked at the same trends for African American women and men and found the same thing sheriff science and engineering degrees going up share of. Patents not keeping up. So breakdown this puzzle for US please it was remarkable that women and African Americans hadn't caught up to general population as they had with respect to degrees in the science and engineering field. So let me just give you a couple of statistics. So air are two hundred, thirty, five patents per million for the period that I was looking at in this paper, and that's for everybody in the patent data set. No we look at just women. It turned out to be about forty patents per million, and then if we look at it for african-americans, it turned out to be six patents per million. That's a huge gap. So the puzzle was. Had It happen? What is happening with respect to moving from the beginning of the patent process that education to the end of the process to participating in invention, participating on patent teams, and then commercializing that invention do was the big puzzle that led to this entire research agenda. Yeah. You found that there seemed to be barriers along that path from getting the degrees and the training to then participating on the teams and working in the companies that invent things that get those patents. So I guess the natural follow-up question is what are those barriers a number of them had to do with? Workplace climate and that's still the case. So women and underrepresented minorities are not always invited to participate on patent teams at the same rate that their counterparts are they might be kept out of the circles of capital for example, that it might take to start an invention or innovation. But at the commercialization stage, the final stage of innovation where we're invention is commercialized. This is one that has the the biggest gap. Yeah, and there's fascinating data in your paper on this that I'd I'd like to share with our listeners. So of all the venture capital investment in startups. PERCENT GOES to companies that include a woman founder and less than one percent goes to companies that include an African American woman founder that's as of twenty fourteen. So there are these huge disparities and it suggests that there is a lot of talent out there. That is not being matched to the jobs where that talent could optimally do the best work and Lisa. This also deprives the rest of us of the inventions that. These. Excluded groups would be coming up with right. That's right. Because that means that the innovative frontier is not as far is it could be that we're not creating many inventions as we could if we had an optimal allocation. So let me tell you about one result that I found early in this research what I found was that single sex teams whether they're male female were less productive than mixed gender teams so just by Having, more diversity team and I think we can extend this by race ethnic group I. think that we could have a lot more invention and innovation in our economy if we were more open to different types of people being on those teams. Okay and so there's another question then which is, well, how do we do that? How do we make this part of the economy the innovation economy more inclusive for these groups that historically have been shut out of it Lisa, you've got three proposals and I am going to ask you about those right after a quick break. Support for NPR, and the following message come from you studio you studio securely distributes corporate audio and video content to employee's use use studio to manage your company's public or private podcast string remotely share meetings and town halls and improve employee communication. Start Your Free Thirty Day trial at the letter you studio dot Com. Okay. We are back with economist Lisa Cook who has three ideas for how to make the innovation economy more inclusive and therefore more innovative Lisa. Let's look at this first idea which has to do with improving how we measure who the inventors themselves are because apparently, the data for this is not very good. It's not very good. We don't count who people are raised is not recorded in the Patton data. So unlike for the small business administration, we're small businesses. Provide demographic data on the owners of the businesses say gender. Race ethnicity we don't collect those data for patterns and this is important because we need to have a benchmark. There is the idea act that Congress is considering now it's based on. A previous research and I would urge Congress to support that active pass it so that we could get an accurate count of who is participating in patenting right now. Okay. At least your second idea has to do with reforming the small business administration the SBA and if listeners don't know what the SBA is, it's a government agency that helps support entrepreneurs and small businesses through mentoring programs, ranging loans and things like that. So at least what should the SBA be doing I would say that it can do a better job of recruiting participants, I e inventors to apply for the programs, and this program is meant to promote the commercialization of invention. So in their mentoring programs, for example, they recruit. In places where there are tech hubs. For example, let's say in in Silicon Valley or alarm route one, twenty, eight will a lot of African American inventors are concentrated in Atlanta and I think that if there were more recruiting there, you get better outcomes. For example, the invader of the Super Soaker Lonnie Johnson is based there and he's been working there for decades and the same is true for his static inventors they're not necessarily concentrated. We're recruiting take place. So if we can match firms in universities to these individual inventors who are in underrepresented minority groups, we could probably get better outcomes with respect to applicants and successful participants in these programs at the SBA. Okay and then finally Lisa your third idea. has to do with workplace climate changes. It needs to be made there. That's a tough one would what is your recommendation for how to make the workplace climate better? Cardiff, can we all get along? I, would love that really I think that is the requisition is a recommendation here. So we see on social media especially now following the death of George Floyd. A lot of African American in vendors and people working in the tech sector talking about the problems that they have encountered in the sector that make it less likely that they would participate well. How do we get rid of those barriers? Well, I, don't have all the answers. There are others who The poor center, there are ways that we can see workplace climate issues reduced. We could make sure that there's blessed sexual harassment less racial harassment and make sure there's representation at every level of a firm there should be bystander training. I mean there is just a lot that we've learned about diversity that seems. Tech firms could embrace. So there's a lot more that can be done to welcome African Americans and women and other races in. Into the Innovation Economy Basic when pleasure in always is to speak with you. Thank you. Places. All Mine. Thank you card. This absurdity indicator was produced by autumn Barnes and fact check by Britney Cronin. The indicators edited by Patty Hirschson is a production of NPR.

Lisa Cook SBA NPR US Michigan State Congress N. P. R Carter founder Lonnie Johnson PERCENT Patty Hirschson autumn Barnes harassment Silicon Valley Patton Atlanta
Talkin' The Star: 2019 Senior Bowl Recap

Blogging the Boys

50:22 min | 2 years ago

Talkin' The Star: 2019 Senior Bowl Recap

"Yeah. What's up? This is talking to start podcast. I'm your host Connor lives. You hear my coast today. Dalton Miller we are still in mobile Alabama. The two thousand nineteen senior bowl I'm leaving in like six hours Dalton's, even after me. So we're not gonna be here too much longer. But we enjoyed our stay here. We are in our friends apartment right now, or I guess this is an apartment where would you call? This is definitely an apartment is on top of a barbecue place that friend is Tyler Browning. He is also from Dallas. He is a Cowboys fan and listens to the podcast met him actually for the first time down here. I think a couple months ago, you said that you were coming down here. And we kinda got hooked up then and he is being gracious enough to let me sleep on the couch in this lovely apartment, which is about four times. Tmz the size of ours that we were staying in. And that was like a detached house. I'd say it's more than for because the rumor in right now is probably four times as it's huge. But. We're very nice for one. Yeah. To be honest. Yep. Yep. This is like a family apartment, but our weeks winding down here winding down. It's over. It's pretty much our. Yeah. You know, we're not gonna there's nothing really going on tomorrow. They have walked through tomorrow that the media cannot attend. There's a fan of into Morrow that the media cannata attend. But me Dalton will will not be there. So this is gonna be the last own site. Coverage will get from us at the senior bowl. So we got a lot to cover. So we're gonna dive into it. We wanted to start the podcast off talking about some of the confirmed meetings that we know about. And obviously, you know, I've seen different viewpoints on this. You know, they meet with a lot of guys at the senior bowl because they have the time to do. So they don't have a set limit. But yesterday, you know, in the end the second floor of the hotel, you had guys pull players aside, sit down and really have in depth. Not formal interviews with them. But in depth interviews with them for twenty thirty minutes. It wasn't just a stop by ask. If you questions get out of the way, it was a sit down and really talk to that player. So these are the guys that we have that have done those. I guess you could call it a formal slash informal somewhere in between meeting North Dakota state running back. Bruce Anderson, Florida state defensive tackle DeMarcus Christmas, Georgia state wide receiver penny heart Arizona state defensive tackle rental Rin Old Dominion, university wide receiver. Travis Travis forum fold home fold ham. I don't know how you pronounce it. But ODU kid, and then we got NC state wide receiver Jacoby Myers. And then there is a mystery man that I watched. Scout. And Chris hall talk to yesterday for I swear was an hour and fifteen minutes that I couldn't find out who it was. I looked at the back of his head or at I it was a tiny receiver. And then it looked like it was Charles medic, Hugh. And then I got into an argument with Connor about the difference between two hundred and five pounds and two hundred sixty pounds. So we started guessing the weights of random people on the field during practices, and you were definitely wrong about every single one of them know that guy was like six foot two two ten. He just was Connor. And then I said, well, I'm five eleven and I'm one hundred ninety five pounds. Look at me look at him. I know he's further away. But I can guarantee you that man is over or over one hundred ninety five pounds. You said he was about one eighty you're wrong. Just admit you were wrong about that. I'm not gonna mitt that. Because we don't know because we were standing five hundred feet away. But we're we do know the measurements to these also. Five hundred feet away. We were like two hundred fifty is like it was less than a football field away. You thought it was two hundred fifty feet away. Yes, he minyard's. No to Rome fifty two hundred and fifty feet is like less than one hundred yards. Yes. We were under a hundred yards away from that where we not less than one hundred yards away from the side. We're gonna find a friend how close to read it at resting at the fifty yard line. And we were like fifty rose up in the bleachers. I'd say about a song around thirty forty yards. Yes. Not much at all. How how how how wide is a football field. Fifty eight yards or. Here young something yard. So here we go. So it's fifty three fifty three divided by two is what twenty one and a half. Yes. And then you got the sideline to the railing. That's probably another twenty one and a half. So there's forty yards. It was literally wasting time. Let's go over the measurements of the guys that we know that the Cowboys have met with that. We know these are official measurements. Because they weighed in at the senior bowl. So you're not guessing on these Bruce Anderson weighed in at a thick five one one two two own nine really thick in the lower half powerful in the upper half. He did suffer an injury today are sorry yesterday in the practices that we weren't able to attend. So he did not practice today. They they called up. The pit running back wasn't Darren Hall. Darren Hall from Pitt another big guy take his place. So Bruce Anderson suffered some kind of an injury. They didn't really tell us much about it yet. I'm sure that's something. We'll find out a bit later. He's a guy that the Cowboys didn't meet with so good size to him underutilized receiver at North Dakota state. So he wanted to show that and I thought we saw some nice things from him in Tuesday's practice before. Obviously wednesday. We didn't get to watch them. And then he got hurt. So we didn't see much of them. But what we saw think, you know, it's it's hard for these running backs to really make their Mark because it's a lot of one on one. So they catch the ball. And I thought he did a good job of doing that. He struggled in pass protection. But, you know, nothing really wild you. But at the same time, he did everything. Well, DaMarcus Christmas weighed in again at a thick six. Oh, three seven three. Oh, two. He ended up actually losing some weight over the last few weeks because he he was listed at three twenty one point at Florida state. So he's down about fifteen to eighteen pounds really wanted to show off his pass. Rush ability this week, get his speed his explosiveness bursts going probably losing some of that way, too. Show that and I think we we saw some signs of that throughout the week. You know, he's just he's he's probably a one tech in Dallas is what I would assume that are of a to gap guy for a an odd front scheme. But I think he's going to be more of a one technique in Dallas that that plays a run that can do a little bit off is is a pass rusher, but not a super athletic guy. Not a guy who's gonna you know have ten sacks a year. But a guy who could come in late rounds and maybe plays a rotational interior guy, penny heart. You know, that's been a huge name this week. He's made himself. I I want to say a lot of money this week. He's a guy that I covered about a week ago. We can happen to go to blogging the boys article, and I feel like everything we talked about as everything he showed really good hands. Just to ability to separate his separate separation. Route running abilities, probably. First or second bust here this week outside of maybe Samuel in many. He separates better than Samuel. But he's also, you know, thirty five pounds lighter than Samuel was. Well, Julio Jones says Hello. What Julio Jones great route runner. He's he's fat. He's thick. He'll have to be small can be big and be a good route runner. You haven't were just talking about strictly separation. Yeah. No, no, no. I was talking about route running his he's oh, I thought you were talking actually gaining separation. I'm saying he has a on her. He's probably the first second third best guy here. Yeah. I would say him deebo hundred Renfro. And then men I really like what Terry McLaren was able to bring this week. I was really surprised by him because he was kind of an afterthought in that Ohio State offense. But we'll get down to what talk later rental Rin nother really really impressive physical guy six four four three fifteen. He absolutely looks the part can't really look the part any more than he does guy. The complain the one can play the three he's explosive. He actually does does a decent job of playing the run as well. So let's like Tida. Yeah. I mean, he's a free physical physical traits just off the charts. I think he's gonna test. Really well, his sizes super intriguing so there's a lot to like about him in. If you took all of his good tape. It airs on a state and put it on the field for the senior bowl. That's kind of what we saw. There wasn't a lot of bad reps from him. So he had a really nice we answered a lot of questions that I had about him. About his hand technique hand placement. Some of the pass rush move. So he had a really good week. Travis Fogo them. However, you want to pronounce it OD you receiver six oh, two three to ten. He also met with the Cowboys a guy who I thought came in, you know, under the radar and had a good week running routes creating separation catching the football. You know, did a lot of good things. I think you know, being a small school kid out of Jinya he came in here. And and did a lot of good things. He re I said it was yesterday said about Terrance Williams or was that today. Here today. A better version of tales while hold on hold on before you go and say that to Cowboys nation Nassir you need to preface it by saying that he uses his hands to catch the football. Yeah. I know I I don't wanna get into the devilish talk. That is EPA, but Terrance Williams numbers in that area were actually quite good. Yeah. In the crazy. So look, here's the thing about territory was not a bad for. No. He wasn't. He wasn't. We just hated him. Because he didn't look good. And then he did stupid stuff off the field. And. Yeah. But that's all people hated hated Terence Newman. Art, yet parents knew only God turns Williams way before that. Yeah. I mean, again, he blocks. Well, he catches the football with his hands. Well, and the thing that I like to a used his body at the right time, and I don't want you to sick that as me saying the body catcher because he's not he uses his. Hands just as good as he uses his body. But he ran a few slants today against Lonnie Johnson guy that I think we're going to mention later and Johnson was in good coverage runs Aslan on one one across the middle Johnson's kind of coming over his back to defend the ball instead of using his hands. And exposing the football to be knocked away. He shields Johnson with his body catches the ball in his gut secures. It goes to the ground really really nice play from him to see the just the nuances in his is is know boss goes at the catch points. I did like that. Jacoby Myers is the last guy that we know officially had some kind of sit down meeting with Cowboys six oh, one six hundred ninety six purely probably going to be a slot guy. Even though he did do some things as an outside receiver this week had had some success can't talk. But you know, guy was some size guy with, you know, good releases off the line of scrimmage pretty consistent hands a lot to like about him. You know, he's he's a really nice guy was able to sit down him last night and ask him. Few questions and asked him about fitting in with the Cowboys offense. And he talked about Amari Cooper, how much he liked Amari Cooper, how much he would love to play even mentioned Michael Gallup by name, which shouldn't surprise a lot of people. But you know, Michael Gallup's, not really a household name. So the fact that he does sit down and watch, you know, NFL tape and see those guys work and see what he wants to get to, you know. I was I was impressed by that. So out of those guys who do you think had the best week on the field? I mean, I know penny harsh probably I don't know. Who would you say out of the other guy all the guys we mentioned who would you say the best week? Honestly, man, I think mystery man had the best week at all of them. I do too because they talked to him for like an hour and a half now out of out of the rest of those guys. I would probably go into Comey Myers. I didn't see it as much today. But he does a really good job of creating separation without being a premier athlete, which is something that he'll still be able to do because he has to do it, technically. He's very good at manipulating defenders going at them creating leverage opportunities. He really attacks outside shoulders on his releases on slants. He doesn't really good job of firing his feet, but not dancing at the line of scrimmage, everything that he does with the purpose. He had a route. I believe it was on Tuesday first day against a Mani a room war free. Over warrior from Penn State quarterback really highly touted and literally put him on his face. He was terrible. This week. Didn't think he was terrible this week. Kris Boyd does still exist. I didn't say it was the worst. There's a lot of bad DV plays. There was a lot of bad db plane, but one on one be wonder tough man, because you don't know what's happening. The bowl is coming your way. You have to be perfect, and you have no help. There's a lot of times in man coverage where the ball just doesn't get to wear even with guys get open because there's help insider there's help over the top. You're able to shade guys into those sorts of things when you're out there on on an island by yourself things become more difficult. So I don't think any for looking at it. None of the corners. Actually did good. But you could put rebus out there won't be one that he would get toasted a couple times kency's guys in Rivas prime not not right now. Yeah. I mean, I think that's just the way that one be ones. Ours. Just like D line always beat offense flying an offense and defense line one b wants it's just tailored towards the the opposition. Why like what Myers did I think Travis roll them was a guy that really helped himself this week? You know, a guy that's long. He's tall. He's got some masters frame. Any runs routes will create separation while so that's good to see from a guy that's six to you know, a little bit of a little bit above six two in. Then a guy that's two hundred ten pounds able to sink his hips. Create separation at the break point has some releases off the line of scrimmage that. I really like and like Don mentioned with Myers, you know, some of these guys I know sills earlier, we watched him literally, you know, off the line of scrimmage given a release. It looked like he was dancing. And it's some of that stuff gets a little frustrating to me because it's like you're not going to do that game. You're doing that one wants to try to confuse the db. And it's just it's sometimes it's like, okay. You know, the quarterback told the ball for four seconds in one versus ones that's never gonna happen. But that's what I liked about Meyers annual remove just able to come off the line of scrimmage, you know, three there stack in the DV resetting him doing a lot of things with their footwork. It's quick it's clean. It's and it gets it gets them open. So. I liked that. I liked the way those guys call it the ball. And again between penny art and rental rent. I think that those two would be the obvious answer. So we're trying to go outside the box a little bit. 'cause I really think we're gonna win was one of the most disruptive defense alignments there this week really on the interior right up there Dalen MAC, some of those other guys. So those are those are all all the official somewhat of a formal meeting. The Cowboys had had what players this week. Whether it was a sit down thing some of the guys just like I said pass by didn't really try to track that as much because it's not as important, but these guys actually sat down and had some more than just a, hey, how are you? Nice to meet you conversation. It was I wanna know your back story. I want to know what happened on this play in this game at this time. And that was the thing that I liked a guy that we didn't list for some reason was Greg gains the Washington defense lineman. Nose tackle again. He's a he's a funky looking dude. Because he's I don't have as measurements up here. We didn't run me off for some reason. But I want to say he's lighter. He was listed at three twenty seven Washington at one point. And he was like six one three twenty seven. But I wanna say he's five eleven three. No. He is six foot one three. Oh seven. Yes. So he lost. He plays. He plays shorter than that. I mean, he plays tiny where he looks tiny because so wide and he's not tall. So that the the way his body structured is he looks he looked short and stout. And that's the way he plays. You know, he's he's a leverage player that really pushes the pocket at times. But he's a he's a gap guy. That's going to get gaps fill gaps and make it tougher teams to run the football against him. And I think that that you know, that that's a good sign to tell you what the Cowboys are looking at. They looked at Christmas. They looked at Ren they looked at. Gaines, that's three into your defense, alignment, two of those three are kind of versatile guys that can play one or three and then gains is obviously a primary knows. And then receivers they admires fulcrum part. And then the one running back Anderson, you know, they're probably looking apart, by the way heart yet, you said part. I don't think I did. I think you're making no absolute. And now we'll go back and listen afterwards. I definitely said heart but yet first round first rounder, penny heart. You know, just just a stud going in the first round gotta go to New England catch seventy touchdowns and ten years, and we're all going to be wondering what the heck we were doing except for seven touchdowns year. Man. That's that's not me. That's not bad. But it's not that many. Just remember you are treated this out last night. Just remember where you were when Connor Livesey shrew arted the first rounder penny heart movement on Twitter memory were because it's going to happen. And even if he doesn't go in the first run it gives them third round in just a stud dish member is sink juju Smith Schuster argument. Just stud gets open catches the ball. Sure. Stud. Sure. He's a stock for. I'm pretty sure juju six two. Does a single six inches on them? Don's in idiot. You know, I've been working on them all weekend. It's been a rough week in for him. We're going to take our first break lower early. Literally haven't seen me during the weekend. At all. I know I keep seeing the leaking because I feel like it's the weekend. But I'm going to be back at my actual job tomorrow, and that's horrible. But it's our first break law early. Come back talk about some more of these receivers that we like some of these defensive linemen that we like running backs tight end safeties and maybe a few these defensive ends of. Well, we'll be right back after we take our first break, we're talking the star. Talking star podcast live from mobile Alabama here at the two thousand nineteen reecey senior bowl last day here last night here for us. So we're we'll be going back home tomorrow trying to we'll be watching the game on Saturday to live tweet in the game and everything but today's the last day at practices that were able to attend. So we're out or peace in our going home going back to our normal lives. Unfortunately, but wanna give big shot out the bogging the boys want to give a big shout out, the SP nation, vox media. Thank you guys so much for loudness hosts podcast, helping us put it out helping us get it out there to all the listeners. Thank you guys for listening. Make sure you're you're like in your rating, your commenting, whatever you need to do to do. So make sure you do that force, please. So we can continue to bring you the content. All right. We want to talk about some of these receivers that we did not mention in the meetings. The first one I'm gonna let you talk about since you're so deeply in love with them. And that is deboned Samuel, South Carolina. Oh, I thought you had more to say there, you're like DeVos Samuel, South Carolina. I thought there was more coming. No. He was the best player on the field all week you. I can't I can't think of anybody that had a better week. Can you? I mean, you're gonna say penny. Right. Are you as a penny? Is that is that? You can't tell given the, you know, the mid dot lips look. Yeah. Looking around. So who do you think was the best this week? I mean, I think that's one eighty one b when you look at it and the receivers. Yeah. Go either way and be not be wrong or be right. Really? Is what I see. Yeah. No. I would not agree with that. Because I do think that the Samuel was the best player in the field. But you know, obviously penny was good deebo is great because he cut consistently get separation without being that quick twitchy, smaller guy. This is a legitimate two hundred and fifteen pound wide receiver reminds me a lot of. He reminds me a bit of DJ, more ease less athletic. Don't get me wrong. He is definitely less athletic than DJ more. But the the kind of play similarly they're both extremely good with the ball in their hands. Deebo has multiple kickoff. Returns for touchdowns. He's not blazing fast. I think he's probably going to run slower than a five five. It's just the way that I look at it on film, and here it doesn't look like he's actually burning away from us. He gets separation vertically. But it doesn't seem like he's running away from guys like a guy like Terry. Mclaren who will we will talk about in a second does. And he's physical a lot of what he does. Well, you couldn't see this week because he has an out there shaking tacklers off post catch, and he was still at two hundred fifteen pounds able to absolutely destroy your boy Johnson in the. Zone today. He read a whip route in first of all right off the release Johnson was toasted. So if he would ran a slant he would have been open and instead of that he goes in hits the whip comes back out Johnson just bear hugs him flags flying all over the place. I thought Johnson was about to get his I taken out by one of the flags and it felt like on every single rent. He was scoring touch touchdown in the right zone. Whether it was one b once or seven on sevens. Didn't matter. He was getting opened. I thought that there were times where he just looked like he was in a completely different class out there. And obviously during one on once penny heart was too and penny heart had good seven seven's as well. But he doesn't offer as much up upside because he is so limited with his length. Yeah. I mean, I. Comparing is far as pure talent with athleticism with size depots, the more talented receiver in my opinion. I don't think it's it's hard to argue that one point George state wants plants have Carolina for reason. But we've seen talented guys. That's that's the most fun thing about this whole process to me is big shot. Hamilton was the best best wide receiver here last year. Yeah. And he went and what the fourth round fifth row. It was a third round. It was earlier than I think a lot of people thought I think he went to the senior bone helped himself a lot and got drafted higher than I think a lot of people had good player. He is. So, but yeah, I mean divas awesome runs. Really good. Routes catches ball consistently at would is tape. Sure. South Carolina's a guy that wins the catch point. Which again, you didn't see a lot of that today because the separation was so good that he didn't have to wanted to get point. But when you have a linebacker safety over the top a corner is close. In man coverage. Those are the things that you notice with him. So Samuel, you know, he's a guy that if he's at fifty eight you have to strongly consider that because you'd be getting tremendous value there with the guy who could come in lineup in the slot, even play a little outside even do some return stuff. So he's a guy like we mentioned, I think it was Monday or Tuesday, whatever. But I told dot said, you know, he does remind me a little bit of DJ mortgage, not as athletic. So maybe that lack of ability will push him down to fifty eight where the Cowboys could grab a really really talented receiver four for reference draft Twitter is insane. And they have like big mock drafts were thirty two people each take a franchise, and they go through and they do a mock draft, and it takes like two weeks and is terrible. But we all do it not all of us. But a lot of us do it. And both times I'm pick. For the Cowboys and deebo has been sniped from me at fifty seven. So that's what draft Witter's looking at when it comes to debate Samuel. Hopefully, somehow, the the height stays low with him the NFL doesn't like him much because he doesn't test. Well, and he's able to come and and up at fifty eight where Connor will not be touching the pen and the Cowboys can get a damn good wide receiver without having a premium pick. Yeah. One that we were gonna mention talk about India's Abella, we're not gonna have time to go in depth as we wanted to you know, he's a guy that coming into the week. We kinda saw him in hundred Renfro is the two top slots here. Pure slots because you've got guys like Samuel Myers who play the slot. But also do some things outside guys. Well, Isabelle came in. And I thought really struggled catching the football. He got betters the week went on. But his first his first few days, Tuesday and Wednesday. Just inconsistent is can be catching the football. Anything up close to his gut numbers chest that he could body. Catchy. Caught anything that used his hands extending? It was double clutch double catch drop in it. That's very concerning because the NFL doesn't matter how much you get open. Can't catch the football doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. How much separation you create? If you can't catch football your hands extended away from your body. It doesn't matter. So he's going to have to prove. And this was the week for him to prove that he didn't. So he's gonna have to test extremely well to have myself have teams have other draft guys. Look over those drops the senior bowl 'cause they were obvious and they were concerning. So we'll talk more about him laters as process goes on because he is going to be an option that the the Cowboys. I'm sure are going to be looking at. Let's talk about a guy that we both liked that we thought really had a really nice week helped us draft stock a lot, and that's Terry. Mclaren high state wide receiver you kind of touched on a little bit. But a guy who came in ran really good routes like Samuel created easy separation. Caught the ball with ease would you like from? Mclaren would you think that he kind of caught your eye with was it his route running was speed was that he kind of did everything? So what was the one thing that you saw them? Do you win? Okay. You know, that's something. I didn't expect him to do that. He did do and helped himself. So honestly, and I had heard. Stories about how good he is on special teams. But they went to punt today. And he was the first person down the field on every single rep as punt gutter, and that that is something that his head coach the terrible terrible urban Meyer said about McLaren, and he's somebody who is absolutely phenomenal athlete. The dude can scoop he is going to run a blazing fast time and with the ball skills that we saw in his ability to create separation and fight through contact way better than I thought he would be able to because he's he's a pretty lean wide receiver. When you look at it. He doesn't have a big frame. So at the top of the routes being able to fight off of physical corners. I Chris Boyd who can't, you know, stick with anything, but can grab a hold and fight. And if you're able to fight off of somebody with that skill set. You know, it's it's fun to see. Something that you didn't expect and I didn't expect that physicality the top of his routes. I really didn't expect for his ball skills to be so good because he made multiple plays outside of his frame that I didn't expect because it's not something that you necessarily sought from him at Ohio State. It was a lot of, you know, downfield throws where he's running wide open because a bunch of stuff is going on underneath and nobody's covering him. And he got open deep down the field now for the Cowboys. This gets a little bit different. Because where do you play? Do you play them on the outside? Do put Cooper on the inside you play him on the inside. And let him be that vertical threat that he really is. Or do you try to put him into those shorter intermediate areas is that something that he's going to be able to flourish in? I mean, we saw him get separation on slants, and and you know, other inside in breaking route quicker stuff, but I can't remember watching him run away. Whip route this week kit, can you I don't remember seeing any any double moves from him. He just it was him using the athletes ISM and that quick, you know, just plant and go. There was no pudding moves together. And I don't know if that's something that the Cowboys are going to be interested in or not it all really depends on what direction they wanna go with their stud Amari Cooper. Yeah. The last receiver. We wanna talk about is another small school small school guy. UC Davis Keelan dos. He's a guy that again coming in. I don't know if anybody had watched them because of the the schools from just not being a real familiar name, but he made a ton of place. He wanted a ton of one one reps. He did good things in seven on seven even called some balls and team drills. Here's a guy that didn't do anything spectacular. He wasn't doing the deebo. Samuel penny heart stuff where he was just torching DB's rep after rep, but every time he lined up he had a clean release off the line of scrimmage and beat the DVD or the next netra out. He would sink his hips on in breaking comeback or Kurla hitch sink his hips create separation at the top comeback to the ball. Catch the ball away from his frame and then get up field. I really liked what I saw him. You know, he's a taller guy from not mistaken six three to five. As we're pulling it up of the side. Oh, sorry. I missed him everyday. He's six two two six two two seven so good size, very tall long guy. And I think he showed that all week just being able to go up out of his frame catch the football. And there were so many. We talked about on the podcast or earlier in the week the flashes that we see from players in that normally translate to two good things. Looking looking in the guy make a play and then look down at your sheet and going man that was number eight who's that? We did that a lot this weekend. We kept going who's number eight because we didn't notice the helmet. We didn't recognize the helmet is keen dos. If you're doing that a lot you're seeing a lot of good things. And that's a good sign that that players playing. Well, he's getting open. He's doing things that you want to see him do in the I think, you know, UC Davis Keelan dos. He's a guy who's not going to be a top hundred pick. You know, he's a late round guy that I think helped us draft stock, and that's what's so great about the senior bowl because you have guys like Keelan Dawson. No one knows about they come here have a good week of practices. Then they getting drafted in the fifth sixth seventh round because of the senior bowl week. I think that that's a situation that we're gonna see Keelan dos that coming in undrafted free agent. Probably no question about it. Coming out. You're talking about him as a late round guy. That showed consistent hands didn't drop. The football. Ran good routes created separation. So he's a late wrong guy that maybe you know, douse would be interested in that can come in plain slot play on the boundary adventures to see if he does get a combine invited. If he does how he does there because if he tests, well, then we're really talking about an intriguing late round option for a lot of teams. We only got about five minutes left before we're gonna take our next break. Into your defense alignment outside of the Gaza. We mentioned in Christmas and Ren and gains really caught your eye this week in practices. Wale. You know, who I'm gonna talk about. I'm gonna talk about my fat Louis doing I'm gonna talk about daily MAC, and I will continue to talk about daily MAC until he has a star on his helmet. Family all Cowboys fans. He's a pats fan. But I let it go. If he has a storm his helmet. He absolutely dominated in one be ones this week. And it was all because of the leverage that he is able to play with and the lower body strength that he possesses and we doesn't look like a super long guide because while he has no neck whatsoever. He's all head and shoulders, but he was consistently able to strong arm and long arm interior offensive lineman straight into oblivion back into the quarterback. He was able to do it all week long at will. And then on the off chance that somebody maybe say drew Samaya from Oklahoma tries to lean forward and really fight. Well, then he swiped. His hands away. Just went did the old trans double chop and rip straight through to the quarterback. So you see the flashes with the hands. They're definitely not consistent. He definitely doesn't have a plethora of path rush moves. But he is super explosive office. Now, always in his film, the first guy off of the ball. And that's the kind of stuff that you wanna see. And when you have rod Marinelli and Leon Lett coaching your defensive line. Guess what he's going to get better with his hands. I mean, look what they were able to do. And I know the antwon woods was on his way to being a good player before he got to Dallas. But Antoine woods is freaking good. Now. He always was. Yeah. But he was in a practice. He had to be unleashed on lock don't blink. Now. What about you? Western Illinois, us Ceylan Saunders. Another small school guide coming in doing backflips for that guy. You know? I hated that. I hated that was thing coming in. 'cause I knew no matter what he did. He was going to get media coverage. People are going to be talking about him because he was a big guy doing a backflip, but the guy came in and played well this week against tough competition. You know, he held his own and probably one a lot more reps any loss throughout the week. I think he you know, we saw guy last year Nathan shepherd for hey state. Oh, yeah. In really work him. He wouldn't have third round to the jets but coming in no one who John shepherd was he got some media coverage because he was from fort. Hey state, then he come ended up being a top one hundred draft pick. And I could see the same exact thing happened with Kaelin Saunders this year. Because of like, I said has applicability is obviously really good athlete, but he came here, and he handled the competent rising competition and really handled it to a level that I didn't even expect from him. Just just a guy who's real active with his hands. Very powerful converts at speed to power. And you know, you you're talking about Dalen MAC kind of the lack of variety of pass rush moves, and that's something that Saunders showed he showed. He showed a rip. He showed a swim. He showed the two hand swipe you show the cross chops. He actually showed a spin a few times as well. So just being able to see a guy who played at a small school come in beat competition. In different ways that goes a long way with me. And then when you look at his athletic abilities size things like that it makes it even better. So those are two guys that we did like own the interior along with the guys that we the Cowboys didn't meet with. I think all of all three of you know, in the room here did like what we saw from those guys as well. So you know, there's there's a ton of closure talk about I don't know how many players they actually had here this weekend. But there's no way we'll be able to cover them on this podcast. We're gonna take our final break comeback. The last segment last minutes. We got we're just going to give the favorite player that we had from this weekend and the player that we are most disappointed in. So maybe semi we came in with high expectations, and they struggled or a guy that just played so bad that, you know, we don't want to tear them apart. But that really needs to do a lot from this point on to help himself. So we'll be right back after our final break. We're talking the star. And we're back talking to star podcast. I'm your host Connor Livesey fine meal. Twitter at Connor enough L draft here with my co host Miller find him on Twitter at don't be Miller. And we do want to give a big shout out to Tyler for letting us record this in his in his Airbnb on the week. We're put your Twitter handle time. Follow titled on Twitter at diabetic Tyler. We both have diabetes, and we both lived in Virginia. So travel me make sure Tyler and now he lives in Dallas. Now, dos of mixture follow me Dalton Tyler Cole coil Patterson. He's he's still in the podcast, but p. No, he's fine. He's fine. He's fine. All right. So segment. I mentioned before we're going to do quick. And we're going to rank these quarterbacks as well. We did wanna talk a little bit about the quarterbacks. You know? I don't I don't know how interested the Cowboys are being quarterbacks. But a lot of people are so we did want to talk about it kind of tell you who we liked we're not going to break it down as much, but we are gonna list out. And then we can fight about it later. If you want to who's your favorite player this weekend. Most consistent. Who you got? Well, I'm not gonna steal your guy. So I'm gonna go with daily MAC, man. I I. Somebody who was shrine game participant. Didn't really know all that much about him. Besides he was a former five star guy. And then he comes out dominates the shrine game gets the call up here and then dominates here as well. Of course, penny heart. I'm just his burner account until he gets drafted. So you know, if you got any negative things to say about penny heart just on follow me on Twitter since I am kick rocks. His his family member. Now that is going to be doing name searching, I'll be tweeting at people first rounder, penny heart. Let's do this first player before we get to that. I do just really quick wanna say that. He loves penny heart so much that he will not admit that he has a bad catch radius. And it's only literally because he has short arms and he's five eight, but the guy that I dislike this week. And I've been on the train for quite a while. And it didn't change it all this week wide receiver. As owner. He's a corner. Kris Boyd from Texas who safety which it. No, no, he can't play with the ball in front of him. He can't play the ball behind him. He's just flat out bad. And listen guys. If literally anybody tells you the Kris Boyd had a good week this week, unfriendly them, they're lying to you. You cannot trust them. There's you're going to hear a lot about the senior bowl. There will be differing opinions there shall be. No differing opinions about Kris Boyd this week. What about you? Where's player males tough because the DB's rough? Man. You know, we're gonna probably talk about him here to second. So I hate to even list. Listen, but trace McSorley. He was just atrocious. Yep. Yeah. He was a he was not great. I mean, actually, I may not hurt. He was the best today. He was atrocious. I mean, seven seven's don't want against air. There was times where I was video taping. In literally just said words that I cannot say on his podcast got very true. If you go to Dalton b Miller on Twitter, there is video of trace McSorley overthrowing a sale route against air straight outta bounce and Connor had some choice words for him. But. We're going to get into this rank the quarterbacks I'm gonna let you go all the way through and then I'll come back, and let's just top five top five. So we're not gonna talk about the bad ones. Let's just do a mall. Yeah. My first guy my top guide through lock this week. I thought that for somebody who I didn't really like ton coming into this. I didn't see the second half of the year yet. I haven't seen that film yet. But I'm about to get to it when I get back to Dallas. He really intrigued me this week. He's definitely able to throw from a ton of different arm slots. I'm not going to get into too much 'cause I gotta get to number two guy. But number two guy would be Jarret stidham who also once again bad before coming here. I mean people had him out of their top ten's. He was that bad. Honestly, my third guy was the big guy toward route Tyree Jackson. He absolutely surprised me. And his throwing motion is. Completely awful to me. I hate watching him. But he was very very good in the red zone. Today felt my fourth guy. Would probably have to be Gardner Menchu? I mean. He wasn't even really flash at all. He was just not bad and a lot of these quarterbacks word, just bad. And then. They were so bad that I can't even really think of who else was on this roster. I don't wanna put will Greer next. I don't wanna put Daniel Jones net. I'm gonna put Daniel Jones next just out of of being kind. And then I honestly think that. Finley might have been better than will Greer this week. I mean will Greer was not good. He was not good this week. So. Give me one is it. Great honest. My seventh quarterback would that be will Greer in? My eighth is trace McSorley. How'd you see it? All right. If I had to break it down. Blocked was the best guy. Their thing most consistent in. I think the difference between this year last year is last year. We saw a lot of. Wow throws from Baker Mayfield. Some from Josh Allen. Even at times, we didn't see that a whole lot this weekend. There was some there's a few of them, but lock lock through one into a window today that I didn't even know existed. So other than that. Yeah. You're so you know, I have walk at one and not that. I'm gonna have Tyree at two just because of the expectations. I had coming in. He had a lot of questions for me. And I think he did a lot better than expected him to. So I'm to list him at two. And then I'm going to have Jarrett stidham at three again, same reasons, you listed just a guy who was catching a lot of flack a lot of hate came in. I think performed above all what he was getting sold as the last few weeks last few months even this whole last year of his season at Auburn. And then I am gonna list I'm gonna lose Daniel Jones for and I'm not Daniel Jones guy at all like whatsoever. But I think that he threw the ball better than I expected him to this week. And for that reason, I do want to give him credit. He did fumble the ball five to six times. And that's a huge issue. If he can't control the ball. He can't protect the ball off the snap than it. Doesn't matter. How good of a Pat passer he is. But that was a concern. Then I'm gonna go Gardner Menchu for the same reasons. You said didn't make any real spectacular plays. But didn't make any horrible horrible throws or re dealer. So pretty consistent throughout the week. You know, a guy who I don't thinks necessarily gonna come in and be a starter anywhere. But you talk about a guy who could get drafted in the mid rounds to be a really really solid backup, maybe developmental guy. That would be good for him. And then I'm going to go I hate to put Greer in front of Finley and McSorley because he wasn't good renew. You could still though because like those three guys were bad. You could put those three put them in a hat and pick them, and that's pretty much it even though sorely McSorley last and Finley could go either way, so we're I'm not gonna spend time arguing when which way they're gonna go just pick whichever one. You wanna pick whichever one you like man, and I can't hate your list. So I can't even fight with you in this this last little bit unfortunate. What we're getting it on time tonight. And that's great. So thank you for listening. It's been a great week f two thousand nineteen Rishi senior bowl. Of course. We'll be back next week. We're going to continue our draft covered or Cowboys coverage throughout the next few months will be on the podcast probably only once a week. Wants this draft cycle starts flowing. Maybe more is the is the combine kicks up as a draft kicks up. But for now, you know, make sure you're you're subscribing us on the different platforms. Make sure following the podcast on Twitter at talk in the star, blogging the boys on Twitter at blogging. The boys also on Twitter at Connor NFL draft at dawn, be Miller at coil Patterson. And and thank you guys. So much listening. Oh and diabetic Tyler shout out to him who wouldn't be able to do this. We'd be doing this out in the parking lot. You know, getting harassed by homeless people if it wasn't for him. So thanks Tyler. Thanks to all you guys for listening following our coverage following reading our stuff. Listen to our stuff. It's been a great week down the senior bowl. We'll see you guys when we get back home. We're talking star see guys next time. Everybody to at and chief of the verge. I host podcast every week called the virtuous my friends, Paul Miller, indeed or bone. We've got a rotating cast of characters from our entire site, which is about technology how it impacts culture, and how that is all a big cycle. The causes us to have a wide variety feelings that you can listen to every Friday we've done over three hundred up associates the six years since Vert has been around, but you'll need to listen to one the latest one to get caught up on everything in tech. News virtue is on apple podcasts. Spotify everywhere else. You listen to podcasts. Check it out.

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The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

Historical Figures

41:09 min | 5 months ago

The Sodder Family Tragedy: 75 Years Later (Pt. 2)

"Forty two year old jenny solder watched as the flames licked against singe flesh burning viscera gristle and bone. She stared at the blaze intently. Not wanting to miss a thing. This fire wasn't accidental. It had been carefully set by none other than jenny herself. She was conducting an experiment of sorts in her home oven. One in a long series. Jennie had used every cut of meat. She could get her hands on from beef joints to chicken bones. It was as close as she could get to human remains without robbing a grave or doing something even more morbid. Jennie had questions about the tragic. Christmas eve fire that had allegedly claimed five of her children. She found it odd. That no human remains have been recovered in the burnt-out house. Actually she thought it was more than on. It was downright unbelievable. The fire chief. Fj morris had suggested that the blaze had completely cremated the bodies reducing them to ash. But jenny had her doubts. She just couldn't believe that every trace of her children had been destroyed like they'd never existed. Jenny suspicions led her detest the claim for herself. She tried different burning times. Temperatures and cuts of meat to see if it was possible to completely broil away every shred of flesh if she could recreate the scenario that had claimed her children's lives if she could see it with her own eyes then maybe she could accept the chiefs version of events. She could acknowledge the devastating loss and try to move on but no matter what jenny tried no matter how long or how hot the fire burned she was always left with a pile of scorched bones. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a spotify original from podcast. I'm your host molly. And i'm your host richard in life. There's so much we don't know but in this show we don't take we don't no for an answer. Every tuesday and thursday. We investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify. or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our second episode in a special three part series about the mysterious fate of the solder children on christmas eve. Nineteen forty five. A house fire killed five sons and daughters of george and jenny solder or did it for more than half a century family members in sleuths have investigated the odd occurrences around the fire and put forth the theory. That may be the missing. Solder children are still out there somewhere. This episode will explore the fallout from the mysterious fire in the aftermath of the blaze. The official story that the kids bodies were completely cremated became increasingly unbelievable especially when for years afterward. Witnesses from all across. The country reported seeing the solder children alive. Next time. we'll wrap up this series with some possible explanations for the cure events of that. Fateful christmas eve. We'll discuss spontaneous combustion human trafficking and even the italian mafia will also cover the possibility that perhaps the children escaped from the blaze and are still alive today. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by. Hbo max. hbo. Max brings all of hbo together with even more movies and series plus new an exclusive max originals for everyone in the family stream older new favorites like the fresh prince of bel-air selena plus chef lovecraft country ends in american pickle. Start your free trial today. Retrials for new customers only restrictions apply. This episode is brought to you by twenty twenty one toyota venza upgrade to leak ultimate crossover with standard. All wheel drive a hybrid powertrain and an available bird's eye view camera. The toyota venza is designed with everything. You need when you need it. Most learn more at toyota dot com slash venza toyota. Let's go places this episode is brought to you by hendrick's gin alike balanced jin deliciously infused with rose and cucumber learn more at hendrick's gin dot com lease enjoy the unusual responsibly. Hendrick's gin forty four percent alcohol by volume twenty twenty imported by william grandsons inc. New york new york after a devastating fire on christmas eve. Nineteen forty-five the solder family desperately tried to make sense of the horrible tragedy. They hoped local officials could explain what had happened and help them understand how they'd lost their house and five. But jenny and george were deeply dissatisfied. When the coroner's inquest was conducted it ruled that the fire had been caused by faulty wiring. But this didn't make any sense. Because jenny in george knew for a fact that the lights had been working that night so it seemed impossible that an electrical problem had sparked the blaze. They were also confused by the latter that gone missing on the night of the fire. They could have used it to rescue the children trapped upstairs if they'd been able to locate it later. Someone found ladder. Sixty five feet away from the house in a ditch. The solders never learned why it was moved or who had done it without the ladder. George in his sons had tried to use their to coal trucks to climb into the house and rescue the trap children but lo and behold neither truck would start even though both had been working perfectly the day before and that wasn't all a witness claimed that he saw a man taking a block and tackle from the scene of the fire for context. This is a system of hooks and ropes. That can be used to remove an engine from a car. The thief was later found to be a local man named lonnie johnson as it turned out stealing the block and tackle wasn't the only crime. Lonnie johnson committed that night also admitted to cutting the solders phone line just thirty minutes before the blaze broke out at this point. It wasn't much of a stretch for jennie george. To believe that someone maybe lani had intentionally burned down their house after all lonnie was skulking around their property committing vandalism and theft if he was capable of that arson didn't seem like too far leap. The problem was they couldn't prove anything. Sure lonny confess that. He wanted to rob the house but that didn't mean he'd lit the flames. The solders prove the fire had been set on purpose but tips kept pouring in and they seemingly confirmed george and jenny suspicions for instance. A bus driver came forward saying he driven past a solder home late on christmas eve. He claimed that as he went by he saw someone throwing quote balls of fire onto the roof. If the bus driver was to be believed someone had intentionally set the cider house. Flame perhaps using a molotov cocktail or another explosive. If true this meant that their children hadn't died in a tragic accident they'd been murdered. The surviving solders were still grappling with the possibilities. When they return to the site turned memorial a few months later it was a somber moment for the family a chance to grieve and remember the source of their pain but two year old baby. Sylvia was too young to understand what had happened or why older siblings had appeared blissfully unaware she played in the yard until she found something that was decidedly not a toy. It was an olive green. Hard cylindrical rubber object. After examining it george determined it was an explosive device and napalm pineapple bomb to be exact if it was indeed an explosive that would explain the balls of fire. The bus driver had seen being thrown onto the roof and it was consistent with the loud thump and rolling sound that woke up in the middle of the night in short lonnie johnson's suspicious behavior. The napalm bomb and the lack of human remains made the solders. Sure of two things one. The fire was set intentionally and two. They weren't getting the full story about their missing five conducted a series of informal experiments in her wood-burning stove hoping to understand why her sons and daughters had all of her tests left bones behind which gave her an odd sense of hope. It meant that her children couldn't have died in the fire. They might still be alive somewhere but with the stakes so high she couldn't only rely on her own amateur investigation. She took things a bit farther to confirm her suspicions. Jenny consulted with an employee at a crematorium after all who would know better about what it takes to reduce a human body to ash. The employee told her that when they burned bodies a two thousand degrees for two hours bone still remained since the blaze that had destroyed. The sutter home had only burned for forty five minutes at the most. It was virtually impossible that it had reached the extreme heat of closed crematorium so it seemed highly unlikely that the children's bodies had been completely cremated as fire chief. Fj morris had suggested on the heels of this revelation. Jenny heard about another local fire. That had taken place recently. That blaze had destroyed a three story house with seven people trapped inside all seven skeletons were found in the rubble. The otherwise tragic news was music to johnny's ears. She took it as even more proof that our children couldn't have been in their house when it burned to the ground. By this point her husband. George was convinced as well. Something darker had happened that night but they still held onto hope that their children might have survived which left the question. Where were they coming up. Information pours in suggesting that the solder children are very much alive. This episode is brought to you. By feeding america as we approached the holidays more families will turn to food banks more than ever before many for the first time and with hunger disproportionately affecting communities of color it remains an ongoing and vital issue as the largest hunger relief organization in the us. Feeding america is dedicated to ending hunger through a nationwide network of food banks. Hunger may seem like a problem too big or too invisible to solve but together we can help ensure that our communities have enough to eat. Just one dollar helps provide at least ten meals to families in neighbors in need. See how you can help this holiday season by donating volunteering for advocating at feeding america dot org slash hope. Two thousand twenty has been devastating year for so many people while the holiday season is supposed to be a time. Filled with family togetherness and joy many of our neighbors face unemployment homelessness and hunger a lot of them for the first time but feeding america and the community that supports it is still strong. Feeding america is the largest hunger relief organization in the us with a network of two hundred food banks and sixty thousand food pantries. They collectively helped to provide food for people across the country who are struggling with hunger. But they can't do it alone. Feeding america needs your help. Just one dollar helps provide at least ten meals to families in need this holiday season. Help families put food on the table. There are several ways to get involved volunteer. Donate or advocate visit feeding america. Dot org slash. Hope for more information now back to the story officially a nineteen forty five christmas eve fire killed five solder children but their parents. George and jenny refused to believe their sons and daughters were gone for one thing. Investigators hadn't found any remains in the ashes of their former home. It was unbelievable that the kids had burned away to nothing in so short a period of time. Then tips started to pour in i. A woman claimed to have seen all five of the missing solder children alive. She said she caught a glimpse of them looking out from the window of a car on the night of the fire. It is unclear where exactly this sighting took place or how the woman knew that the kids were actually the missing solders that if she really did see the children that night. It raised all sorts of questions for jennie george namely who abducted them in. Where did they take them before. They could come up with a good theory. Another woman came forward. She worked at a tourist. Stop between fayetteville where. The solder house was located and charleston. A city about fifty miles northwest. The woman claimed to have seen the missing solder children with our own eyes the morning after the fire. Not only had. She spotted them. She'd served them all breakfast. Sadly any information about where they'd gone after their meal but she did notice that the car they traveled in had a florida license plate and soon the sada's heard from different woman one who worked at a charleston hotel. She'd helped check in a strange party about a week. After christmas eve. It was past midnight and the group consisted of four italian speaking adults. Two men and two women and four children when the clerk tried to chat with the kids. The adults turned hostile in began conversing amongst themselves in italian. whatever they were saying it seemed. They didn't want to be overheard. They refuse to speak with her anymore. And the next morning they made sure to check out early. The woman had almost put the strange incident out of her mind until one day. She opened the newspaper to a shocking sight. It was a picture of the five missing solder children and she recognized four of them though. It's not clear which ones now. There's a lot to unpack here first off. The woman only recalled seeing four children which raises the question of whether something sinister happened to the fifth child. And then there's the mysterious italian quartet the woman described. Perhaps they were kidnappers. It was even possible. They had some connection to georgia's mysterious past in italy. If only we knew what they had said in italian sadly end for unknown reasons nothing came of this seemingly promising lead but over the following weeks and months several witnesses pointed south toward florida as it turned out ginny solders brother frank. Cheaper yanni lived in the sunshine state and for a time. She entertained the possibility that he had taken the children. It's not clear why jenny thought this. Maybe she was just holding onto any hope that her kids were safe to follow up on her. Hunch miami police combed through birth records to prove that all of the children living with cheap brioni or actually his. The records were in order and that path had turned out to be another dead end. But that wasn't the end of the mystery before too long. George and jenny uncovered another lead. Which once again suggested their sons and daughters were in florida a missionary in the small coastal village of cortez recognize the solder kids from a picture he saw in the paper. He claimed that he'd seen the children alive and well living in a house nearby immediately georgian. Jenny dispatched a private detective to investigate but by the time he arrived the children were gone. Allegedly the detective confirmed that the children the missionary spotted had been there previously. If this was true it suggested that there was some kind of dark cover up going on someone had made the solder children disappear. Before the pe- i could find them and unfortunately nobody had any idea where to look next over the next couple of years. Several more tips from people claiming they'd seen the sada children came through and george solder followed up on every single one. He traveled the country but each time. His hopes were dashed. And george never got any closer to finding his missing children. Still the family wasn't ready to give up the search so in one thousand nine hundred forty seven almost two years after the fire they appeal to the highest investigative authority in the land. The fbi the head of the bureau j. edgar hoover sent them a response but his letter left them more disappointed than ever hoover wrote although i would like to be a service. The matter related appears to be of local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau. However the fbi didn't completely leave the solder family out in the cold hoover's agents said they would assist in the case if they could get permission from the local authorities one might think the fayetteville police and fire departments would appreciate the help but for reasons that still remain unclear. They turned down the offer. It may have been a matter of egos getting in the way with local fayetteville authorities wanting to maintain their jurisdiction. Or maybe they didn't want the case to be solved regardless of the reason the sutter's didn't get help from the fbi. But even that disappointment wasn't enough to make them give up on the investigation later in nineteen. Forty-seven jennie george hired a private investigator named cc. Tinsley teens. -ly dug into the case and quickly found disturbing information pointing to a prominent fayetteville. Citizen will refer to him as peter as we covered in part one. George had a rocky history with peter. The salesman was a cosigner on the solders home insurance policy but when he offered to sell george life insurance for his children. George turned him down in response. Peter threatened that the solders house would quote. Go up in smoke just a couple of months later. The house burned to the ground. Just as he said it would. All that certainly makes. Peter looks suspicious however the fayetteville police never even brought him in for questioning and even if they looked into him it seemed. The local prosecutor was unwilling to bring a case against him. Peter was too prominent and well-connected. Luckily tinsley was on the case and he had no such reservations. He soon discovered that despite all of his incriminating behavior. Somehow peter had become the chairman of the coroner's jury the same institution which had ruled that the solder fire was accidental. At the very least this was a conflict of interest. The guy who had an insurance policy on the building help determine the cause of the fire with his ruling peter guaranteed himself a payout if the fire wasn't accidental than it seemed downright nefarious that peter was in a position to sway. The juries decision tinley couldn't find any indication that peter had set the fire himself but he had another lead in lonnie johnson. The man who robbed the solder house cut their phone line. Allegedly while under investigation johnson cracked and said that he was quote getting tired of taking the rap for those people at fayetteville. That wasn't much to go off of. But the statement suggested that lonnie was in league with some quote people at fayetteville. Maybe he was keeping quiet to protect them. And perhaps that person had fayetteville was peter who else to gain as much as he did. The problem. this alleged conspiracy was all speculation. Tinsley couldn't find any hard evidence to prove a connection between peter and lonnie let alone that they'd set the fire or kidnapped the missing so the detective explored other angles. He put the screws to the fire. Chief fj morris and under pressure. He soon made a shocking revelation after swearing that the children had been completely cremated he reversed course and claimed that he did find human remains in the rubble specifically a human heart and instead of reporting it or alerting the solder family for some unfathomable reason the fire chief claimed that he buried the heart in a dynamite box. The circumstances were suspect to say. The least george and jenny solder wouldn't be satisfied until they could dig up this heart and see it for themselves but i see tinsley lee arranged for the chief to escort him to the burial site once they arrived. The chief pointed out where he buried the box they dug until they found. It wasn't deep but it probably felt like it took any turney to uncover and when tinsley finally opened it up. There was some kind of organ in the box. Strangely it didn't look like it had been burnt at all but tinsley couldn't tell for certain if it was actually a human heart. He took the box to a nearby funeral director. After examining the organ inside the director concluded that it wasn't a human heart at all it was beef liver. It was a fake and not even a very convincing one. The liver didn't have a trace of burn marks on it. Rumor has it that chief. Morris eventually confessed that he'd hidden the beef liver and pretended it was a human heart because he wanted to put an end to the investigation once and for all he thought that if the solder family found proof that the children had perished in the fire. They'd finally be able to move on. But if that was chief marris's goal it only showed how much he'd underestimated the solder family. They were determined to go to any lengths to discover what had happened to their children after the beef liver debacle. They continued to follow up on any leads that came their way for example towards the end of nineteen forty. Seven georgia was reading a magazine when he came across something that made his heart skip a beat. It was an innocuous picture of school children in new york city but there was something about one of the girls. He'd know her anywhere as he steered the picture. He became increasingly certain that she was his missing seven year. Old daughter. betty. George was so sure of his hunch. He drove to new york to investigate for himself. We can only imagine the excitement. He felt on that long drive thinking that he might just be hours away from being reunited with his young he made it all the way to manhattan and track down the child school but when he arrived they didn't let him see the little girl. Perhaps they shut george out because they were trying to cover something up. Maybe that little girl in the picture really was betty after all sadly george solder was never able to get close enough to her to find out for sure after the latest painful dead end. Some years went by without a break in the case. But jennie george still didn't abandon hope by this point. They tried just about every avenue of investigation imaginable so they decided to return their focus to the scene of the crime. Searching for any clues that might have gone overlooked the first time around in august nineteen forty-nine the sada's hired pathologist from washington. Dc named oscar. B hunter to go over the site with a fine tooth comb. Hunters first step was to excavate the lot which has since been covered over once the pathologist had dug through all of the dirt. He made a startling discovery something. The family had searched for for years but hoping against hope they would never find human remains coming up. The solder family confronts the possibility that at least one of their children met a fiery death. This episode is brought to you by nur tech obt remigia. Pant seventy five. Milligrams sure you probably know what a migraine is. But do you know what causes it. During migraine attacks a nerve in the brain releases. A protein called calcitonin gene related. Peptide for siege. Erp cg rpi attached to inactivates receptors in the brain and is believed to play a key role in migraine attacks. Did you know that nur tech obt is a prescription medication for the acute preventive treatment of migraine and adults that blocks cgip receptors. Now you know just one dose of neurotic od t can get many people back to normal activities and last up to forty eight hours. Don't take allergic to. North dakota t the most common side effect was nausea for more information including important safety information patient information and prescribing information visit tech dot com. That's n. u. r. t. e. c. Dot com talk to your doctor today. This episode is brought to you by progressive progressive. Has you covered when it comes to car. Insurance starting with built in savings like discounts for being a safe driver. You can also say when you start your quote online or have multiple vehicles on your policy in fact drivers who switch and save with progressive. Save over seven hundred and fifty dollars on average started quote online and see all the discounts for yourself visit progressive dot com today national annual average on savings by new customers surveyed in two thousand nineteen potential savings will vary discounts vary and are not available in all states and situations now back to the story for years. The solder family searched for evidence of what had happened to their five missing children and then finally in august nineteen forty nine. They found a somber clue human remains specifically pathologists. Are a hunter found the shards of four vertebrae from the same body. And this time. The bones were undeniably from a person. It wasn't a repeat of the beef liver debacle. Except there was something suspicious about the backbones. They didn't have any of the scorch marks that you'd expect to see on a burn victim. This made it unlikely that the vertebrae belong to any of the solder children. To make sure dr hunter sent the bones to the smithsonian institution in washington dc for further analysis the report that came back estimated that the deceased was around sixteen or seventeen years old and no older than twenty two. Maurice was the oldest of the missing solder children but he was just fourteen. Likely too young for the backbones to be his. The report did allow that in rare cases. A fourteen and a half year old boy can show the maturation of a sixteen or seventeen year old. But that was highly improbable so it seemed like the bones were yet another dead end in the investigation. The pathologist hypothesized that they must have been present in the dirt that george had added to the site to create the memorial. That beg the question of where exactly george got that soil. But it didn't have any bearing on the mystery at hand either way the smithsonian report triggered to hearings in the state capital of charleston west virginia. Ostensibly these were to determine whether anything had been overlooked in the formal investigation but authorities maintain that they done everything they could for the solders. Furthermore local law enforcement cited a lack of evidence is the reason they were unwilling to devote any more resources to the probe. This seem pretty. Incredible given the startling number of tips twists and witnesses who had come forward since the fire perhaps the authorities were just eager to clear the pesky inquiry or maybe they didn't want to see the mystery solved. Whatever the reason in nineteen fifty. The state of west virginia closed the inquiry for good. Both the governor and the state police superintendent told the solders in no uncertain terms that their case was quote hopeless. It seemed like the sada's had exhausted all possible. Avenues of investigation local state and federal authorities. Were all unable or unwilling to find out what had really happened to their children. Furthermore georgia driven all over the country trying to find his kids on his own and came up empty-handed every time so the solders made one last ditch attempt to turn up any information about their children as a hail mary of sorts. They decided to crowd source their investigation. This was the nineteen fifties so they couldn't exactly post the details of the case online but they did the analogue version of that in the early nineteen fifties. Jennie george. Solder paid to have a billboard erected along route sixteen near fan ville at the top of the billboard in bold capital letters. They pose the question. What was their fate kidnapped murdered or are they still alive below. That were five. Huge photographs of the missing children from oldest to youngest and beneath the pictures was a desperate plea for information that might help solve the case. The solders laid out their belief that the fire was started intentionally and the children survived the blaze. The billboard also suggested that local law enforcement was hiding something from them. Jennie george offered a five thousand dollar reward for information when that produced no results they doubled it to ten thousand dollars as far as the solders. Were concerned no price was too high if it would bring them closer to seeing their children again. After the billboard went up potential clues trickled in for example. The sada's received a letter from a woman in missouri. She claimed that martha the oldest of the missing girls was in a convent in saint louis then at patron at a texas bar reached out about an incriminating conversation. They'd overheard regarding a christmassy fire in west virginia. Neither of these tips amounted to much and the case went cold yet again. Nearly two decades past before the family got another break in nineteen sixty seven. A woman from houston reached out to report that she'd overheard drunken young man claiming to be louis solder. Who would then be thirty one years old. By this time. George was in his early seventies and in failing health but he was still determined to run down every possible piece of information about what had happened to his children so with the help of his son in law he set off on the long drive to taxes however when they finally arrived. The woman declined to speak to him. Maybe she'd written everything she had to say in the letter or maybe someone got to her and convinced her to keep quiet. In any case the trip down to houston wasn't a complete waste even without the woman's help george and his son-in-law managed to track down the man she'd mentioned the one who had allegedly claimed to be louis solder as it turned out there was more to the story. This lewis had a brother. Perhaps he was the other missing. Solder boy maurice. The two men were cordial enough. They agreed to speak with george but they firmly denied that they were lewis and maurice solder their hopes dashed yet again. George and his son-in-law drove all the way back to west. Virginia according to sylvia solder apparently something about that encounter stayed with george for years afterward in two thousand thirteen interview was the charleston gazette. She said i think there was always some doubt in his mind. I think he always wondered if those were his boys in if he'd made a mistake leaving so quickly but if those were his long lost sons it seems almost unimaginable that they lie about their identity particularly when they were face to face with their father for the first time in twenty two years unless of course they were in some kind of danger. Maybe someone had threatened them or the whole lewis. Solder story was just some kind of twisted joke. Interestingly the following year brought another credible clue as to louis solders possible whereabouts one day in one thousand nine hundred sixty eight. Jenny picked up the mail to find a very strange letter. It was addressed to her but there was no return address. It had been postmarked in kentucky. Jenny opened the envelope to find a photograph inside. It was a striking young man. Perhaps in his late twenties or early thirties and the name louis solder was written on the back followed by a bizarre message. I love brother frankie. Little boys a nine zero one three two or thirty five. Needless to say jenny was shocked to think that after twenty three years she was looking at possible photographic evidence that her son was alive and well somewhere or at least that he'd survived the fire. The implications were staggering and the picture was pretty convincing. You can find them online to all of nine year old louis features matchup with those of the mystery man. The dark curly hair. The long straight knows the upward slope of the left eyebrow the resemblance was compelling enough for the saudis dispatch yet another private investigator to follow up on the lead. They never heard from the detective again. It's unclear what happened to him. He might have gotten a break in the case and been silenced. Somehow or you might have just taken the solders money and run jennie. George never found out what happened to the investigator and with georgia's health still on the decline. He couldn't afford to wait around for him to reappear. In the meantime they added the alleged photo of louis to their billboard hoping that it might trigger some new piece of information. Sadly it didn't george died in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine. He never learned the truth about what happened to his five missing children. Jenny followed him to the grave. Twenty years later the billboard and the private investigators the saudis reportedly spent over fifteen thousand dollars trying to solve the mystery which would be around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in today's money. Both of them devoted their lives to searching for answers about their children. After thirty seven years on the side of route sixteen the billboard finally came down in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. When jenny died but even to this day surviving members of the solder family continue to seek out answers their efforts coupled with amateur online inquiries have produced three major theories about what happened to the children perhaps human traffickers snatched them from the house before the fire ignited or maybe the tragedy was an instance of spontaneous human combustion. Some have even implied that the mafia had something to do with the disappearance. Whatever the solution one thing is clear the official reports. Don't tell the entire story. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back on thursday with part three of the mystery of the disappearance of the solder children for more information on the house. Fire amongst the many sources we used we found the smithsonian magazine article the children who went up in smoke by karen. Abbott extremely helpful. To our research you can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries and all others spotify originals from park asked for free on spotify. Cnx time in remember. Never take we. Don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries is a spotify original from park cast. It is executive produced. By max and ron cutler. Sound design by. Dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of unexplained mysteries was written by noni okla goo with writing assistance by angela jurgensen and abby geli audie magoo fact checking by claire cronin and research by brad klein and brian peaches unexplained mysteries stars molly. Brandenburg and richard rosner.

jenny Jennie george jenny solder george lonnie johnson Fj morris fayetteville america George toyota Jenny sada venza peter Jennie george solder lonnie william grandsons inc.