8 Episode results for "Lithuanian Government"
Holocaust Education and State-Sponsored White Supremacy
"Hello everyone, and thank you for listening to never again Talk podcast for Holocaust and genocide Justice produced by I can't israeli-american Civic Action Network. I'm your host Dylan Hozier and with me as always is Grant caution. Hello Great Wok. Hello Dylan. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. Great great. So so last well we missed last week, but the week before we we discussed some some kind of basic 101 ugh Holocaust misinformation disinformation perpetuated by choice and frankly Holocaust Distortion perpetuated by the Lithuanian government today. I wanted to talk about Holocaust Education and job Um, the new claims conference survey that just came out I guess about a month ago, but I thought it would be interesting to discuss that and then I guess you'll you'll surprise me with a story. This is how are podcasts. We'll go. We'll we'll come up, you know most we have scheduled guests will share stories with our listeners that that we think are important and we will discuss them in the broader context sounds good to me. Perfect Perfect. All right. So so like I said, I'd like to talk to you and can I get your sense of the the claims conference survey on Millennials and gen Z. Are you familiar with the survey? I am I am and it was very upsetting to read that. We're off the failing to educate the youth on a critically important subject. So it's interesting. The headline says new survey by claims conference finds significant lack of Holocaust knowledge dead. And States, so it says there there's this one fact, I didn't know it says there were over forty thousand over 40,000 camps and ghettos during the Holocaust 49% of Millennials. Cannot name a single one. That's awful because it was so many Americans were Rescuers and went in to liberate those labor camps and death camps Americans were were heroes in the war and we are ostensibly be the Guardians of the world against the next genocide and if Americans don't know about previous ones, especially be the biggest one what hope do we have of a preventing or be stopping the next genocide that happens wage well, and and that brings us to one of the other findings of the survey. It says seven out of ten Americans obviously at 70% Say fewer people seem to care about the Holocaust than they used to. In the majority of Americans This is 58% believe that something like the Holocaust could happen again. To your point. Absolutely the Holocaust could happen again. It's it's the the veneer of civilization in humanity is so thin and all we need do is let the genie out the box and and it will happen again. So it's never far off and it's a constant effort to prevent the next one. So if the youth don't know about the last one and don't know about the signs of to look for and the Soul precious to guard against the odds are we're going to face another catastrophe at some point. Read I just want to go through a few more of these these kind of critical data points that they that they share here. And then I want to look at some some state-level data off. I think this is the first state-level survey that that has been conducted on this on this particular issue is my says this survey also found significant gaps in knowledge about the Holocaust in that nearly one-third of all Americans and it and more than four and ten Millennials believe that substantially less substantially less than six million Jews were killed during the Holocaust should say were murdered during the Holocaust and while there were overnighted minutes before while there were over forty thousand concentration camps and ghettos in Europe during the Holocaust almost half of Americans cannot name a single one in this percentage is even higher among Millennials, but at the same time there were encouraging notes in the survey. In particular there are key findings underscoring the desire for Holocaust Education. So this is kind of a a bright spot more than nine out of ten respondents 93% believe all students should learn about the Holocaust school and eight out of ten respondents eighty percent say it is important to keep teaching about the Holocaust so that it does not happen again one one thing. I wanted to ask you just because we like to focus for good reason on Lithuania. The survey says there were over forty thousand concentration camps and ghettos. How many death pets were there? Do we know that number of death fits? Am I in Des away Nia? There's there's and and Lithuania is a very small country. And I mean before you mind is it important to distinguish between a concentration camp in a ghetto and depth it's it seems to me that it is important to distinguish what I mean, they they will distinctly different and yet they're all have similarities so they were lodged. Camps where people were staffed and and and beaten but they weren't gas Chambers. So the death rate was massive and the torturers massive, but it wasn't wage an immediate killing center, right? There was a death camps, which were the industrialized killing centers wage and then in Eastern Europe before the killing centers were invented. It was a Holocaust by bullets where it was one murderer murdering one victim one at a time at a time millions of times over and the Germans actually discovered that it was causing psychological damage to the murderers, so they didn't care if it wasn't about the victims. It was about protecting. The mental capacity and the mental well-being of of the murderers now you you can you can look at this in comparison. You can say, okay. Well, you know, let's let let let let let's take something truly innocuous. What what what is a minor crime that you can think of Dillon? Let's let's let's let's run and exercise pick up everything. Okay, so off the shoplifter goes and shoplifts once and they go home and they have remorse and they are introspective and they feel bad about it and they worry about getting caught but then they go out the next day. And they shop lift the game. And they get away with it again, and then they think okay well. There's no consequences for this and then the crime becomes normalized. So what happened with Lithuanian murderers and Nazi murders is they went up murdering and at the beginning they felt bad. It was to see to see a baby's brain explode in front of you like a watermelon to get splattered with blood a they didn't feel good about wage. But after a while it became a very normal activity for them and there was no remorse and so things like murder and discrimination become normalized within a society and You can see you you can see societies gradually normalising. Really sick behaviors. This is this is this is the basis of Stanley milgram's research on obedience and nationalization of following. Um, somebody in a position of authority and then eventually performing horrific acts against innocent individuals. Is that right? Yes, that's correct. And and and Even genocide is not uncommon in human history. It's actually a regular regularly occurring theme what made the Holocaust took French was the industrialized nature of it and the level of participation and the extent of the murder of Well, well, let's let's go through I want to look at this data a little bit more and I want to talk about Holocaust Education. So this is a claims conference survey says most Americans 80% eighty percent of Americans have not visited a holocaust museum and this to me means that our classrooms are often are places that need to become makeshift museums in a way or at least Learning Centers for this kind of education. I'm heartened by the fact that ninety 3% of respondents believe that all students should learn about the Holocaust in school disappointed that only 20% have visited a museum. Do you have any thoughts on on classrooms become a centers of learning about the holograph million forms of them, you know kids kids growing up conscious learn about math and science and and and geography they go home. Need to function for 1890 years in society and they're going to need your educate the Next Generation how to behave within a society so long. If you are not teaching about aberrant Behavior, then kids are not going to know that those are unacceptable or or they they're not going to know how to avoid it. I mean, let's let's switch to Lithuania again as usual for for a few moments. There is a Charming town in in in the area called McCoy and it's very small and there was a wooden synagogue and the village restored the synagogue and it's now the main tourist attraction for them for that Village. There's no other reason to to to visit our koi people go there to see this restored synagogue and bought this last week would have been the hundred and tenth birthday of the Lithuanian mass murderer Jonas America. So he came down where Jewish tourism is is one of the primary supports the local school had dead. A celebration of of noriko's birthday, you know, imagine a school in Germany having a Hitler birthday party off that is what this town in Lithuania did so the children are carrying tiki torches and marching up and down much like Hitler Youth would do unbelievable in this this is happening today. It happened last week happened last week unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And you know, I'm sure of all the teachers are really sincere decent people who have been miseducated themselves. I'm going on so they were taught false information that noreika was a good person when when in fact, he was a germicidal murderer home and they are trying to convey these values to the Next Generation. You know that that's a a stark I think contrast wage. Between what we expect in our American classrooms when it comes to you know, when I when I asked the question should should or should our classrooms in America being a shift Holocaust museums. It's eighty percent of Americans can't go to a museum where they going to be exposed to information about the Holocaust. Well, it's going to be the classroom off and then for older or adult Americans, you know, I I don't know what we do, but we need to find some way to reach adult Americans as well. But you know when I think about the the public school classroom being a place where our youth can learn about vital history and important facts related to the Holocaust and genocide and learning about these Just you know, these these dark moments in history and the decisions made by people in leadership. And like I always say the state wage being mobilized to eradicate a segment of society targeted segment of society just the the disgusting Twisted mind off belief and hate behind that that act and then to think that in 2020 today. Okay. We're just a week ago that a school in life. Has kids that are parading around and celebration of somebody who murdered Jews during the Holocaust is just how do how do we let this happen often? Because what is going on is that we've mandated education or or or they've said okay we need to educate would you say that you mean in Lithuania? Yes, but then the wrong people have taken control of the curriculum and teaching false information. So I have a feeling that's going to that's going to be your your story. Let's let's wrap up. Let's wrap up this claims conference survey real quick and then we'll jump into your garage door, except I have a space that is because it is extremely relevant to Americans. Yeah, absolutely and and and and what we teaching our kids, right, right, so so I just want to wrap up wage. One more quick fact about this this claims conference, by the way. Should we should we tell people what the claims conference is? Can can you can you describe you go ahead so long as far as I understand that the claims conference is an organization that is based in New York. Is that correct? I know what I'm not so with that based so I think they're missing New York will have to get somebody from the claims conference on the show. But here I'll just I'll just read what their mission is across six decades our mission. This is the claims conference. This Mission has been to provide a measure of justice for Jewish Holocaust victims and to provide them with the best possible care going forward. We must ensure that future Generations. Learn the lessons of the Holocaust to preserve the memory of those who suffered so much and those who were lost we know the horrors of the Holocaust can never be repaired and must never be forgotten and we believe that survivors of the Holocaust deserve recognition for their suffering and to live out their lives with dignity birth. Understand it. They are this organization is one of the primary of not the primary organization that is focused on restitution for survivors. And their families is not yes. I agree with describing. Okay. So for those those listeners who you know, we're referring to the claims conference. This is an organization that works to to find restitution for the victims and their and their own right and and during this time of pandemic. They've actually managed to obtain a good amount of money to help support survivors that are impacted are covered. Great great. So one of the thing that was interesting here is they did a state-by-state survey and I kind of wanted to look at this. I wanted to look at this because It tells a a bit of a checkered story about Holocaust Education in this country. That's kind of I wanted to it brings me to a question that maybe you can give her some perspective too. So there's several questions that were asked of gen Z and Millennials. So let's let's find a basic question here. One of them is can't name the percentage of respondents who can't name a concentration camp or ghetto. So I recently you know Holocaust Education at the state level has been an important mission of icann and we've been tracking the states that have passed mandatory Holocaust or general education across the country and what struck me first was those states that have mandatory Holocaust Education in particular, you know, we're looking at California. For example, California is one of the states that has had mandatory Holocaust and genocide education since 1985 is when California passed its law fantastic home, but 37% can't name a concentration camp or ghetto. Maybe that's not high and maybe that says something more about the educational system that does about the fact that the state has manditory Holocaust and genocide education. Maybe um, I mean, I feel like everybody should know Auschwitz, I mean Auschwitz is the most, you know, high-profile and I would argue highly recognized concentration camp out so that number, you know, kind of struck me then you look at a state like Illinois, which was the first state to pass mandatory Holocaust Education and that I believe was in nineteen eighty-one 54% 54 percent of respondents Millennials and gen Z could not fathom a concentration camp or ghetto Texas just passed their mandatory Holocaust Education bill. Just last year and Thursday. 5% couldn't name a concentration camp or ghetto and then you have New York, which is among the highest in in this on this particular question fifty 80% of respondents fifty percent in New York has had let me see if I have the data for New York. I don't have the year. It was pretty early on a bit past Ministry Holocaust Education package. Then the question becomes what are they teaching well, and that's my question is is is it because you know, what? What are the lessons of Holocaust Education right? I mean is the lesson of Holocaust Education? And I I don't use the word trivia, but because it's not trivial but is is the name of a concentration camp or ghetto important or is it important to know that there were concentration camps are ghettos and in and by the way, we didn't finish the the notion of death. That's I saw a map of Lithuania recently. The whole country is covered with death pits Grand off. Right? And so that to me is just as bad as a concentration camp or ghetto. So is it is that when we're looking at this date, in fact, in fact, if the two worse right? Cuz why they were worse is that Jews were centralized victims were centralized in the concentration camps, but those murders took place with very few people watching and with almost nobody that could intervene in those Mass deaths that were in The Villages. People would line the route and watch the Jews being marched off to be murdered and it was like a spectator sport home so they could have intervened and stopped it the the where there are so many death-beds means that there was a much higher rate of participation right of the population and the murders were that much more personal choice. I mean, you know, we talked about you you just mentioned earlier in the conversation about the role of Americans and liberating Jewish from concentration camps. You can't liberate somebody from a Death Pit know you can't believe somebody from Death fit and I mean to see to see the map was just it literally the country is covered in deathbeds. Well, you know, let's say let's go into let's let's let's Veer off into what you just said. You can't rescue some home remedies, but in fact, you know, the let's take a country that that that executes somebody give somebody the death penalty and if somebody was hung and the Rope broke then they didn't hang them a second time. Correct? I didn't know that. No, I have no doubt. It's not I don't know. So if I get another rope, I mean, what does it wrong on his name was I think in the wild west when we were dead. People in in the United States if if the Rope broke, then the person was set free surely not in the Islamic Republic of Iran. They don't do that. Right? I mean they get ropes that what you know what I know. I know. Okay. So there is you know, when they when when when the lithuanians will take the juice to the death, but thought they would just mess shoot them, you know, the amount of people just fell into the death, but that either weren't shot off was shocked and not yet killed. They wouldn't waste bullets on on children. They were just very the children alive. No foil. All these there's there's an investigation going on right now. The Simon wiesenthal Center is is trying to birth. Capture and put on trial a Lithuanian woman that would just take rocks and bass Jewish babies brains and kill them. So many thoughts went into neighboring countries to murder Jews in the in in the neighboring countries. It wasn't enough just to murder Lithuanian Jews. They they were so enthused about murdering Jews that they could go elsewhere to murder them as well. By the way, that was something that we were talking here in this segment about Holocaust Education. That was something I didn't know. And we may have touched on our last episode. I think it's it's Bears repeating lithuanians would go into other countries to murder Jews. I think they went. Mm Belarus. Is that right? Correct, Belarus and where else did they go? Ukraine Ukraine, that's right. Now Poland Latvia in in this in this happened with either before or just before or when the Nazis invaded Lithuania. Is that right? Well, when they would go into neighboring countries was uh home when the Nazis were in charge. Okay, these people would either volunteer or be co-opted but they would they would enthusiastically talked to foreign countries, right? I know of at least two cases where Nazis. Complained to the German government saying the lithuanians are so brutal and so enthusiastic off. About the viciousness in murdering that and and in the one case the Nazi said that he witnessed June who's digging themselves out of death pets and then the lithuanians would go and kill them. When when when they saw that they haven't killed them yet. And the Nazis said, you know after after putting something through an execution if the rope breaks or or the Bullet misses them, you know under under any traditional murder suck to speak that victim would would go free but the lithuanians didn't want to miss out on a single Jew and they didn't want to allow for a do to survive will also I mean the the scenario that you mentioned about the wild west and and hanging ostensibly off. That was because somebody committed a crime right? I mean, correct and this was and that was about Justice. This is not about Justice. This is about genocide. Well, you know the what was done to the Native Americans was also genocide great great and and and that happened throughout North and South and Central America. And you know, they they they they use chemical warfare as well because the smallpox biological warfare right biological warfare because they would put smallpox on blankets and then hand the blankets the Native Americans and you know it is that so different than then then putting a thousand people into a gas chamber and and and setting off the gas pumps. You know, if if we don't say to these kids in pakka Roy you are caring tiki torches and marching and singing songs for the murderers of the families of the people that are now supporting you through their jurisdiction hours. You know what lessons are those people teaching the children? And now as I said to you, you know, the teachers may not know the facts. They teachers may be very well-intentioned decent people that have been misinformed themselves. So Foreigner Acres Thursday, hold on. Hold on. Hold on before you get that don't jump there cuz I want to close out this one this one second here real quick. Okay, so so because I want to talk about facts and a little duck tail very nicely off into the norikoh story. And I want to get back to the original question about about is it important that 58% of New York Millennials and gen Z cannot name a concentration camp or ghetto and I ask this because that's what this survey says, right? So if I'm looking at the survey and it's a 58% of New Yorkers or New York gen Z and Millennials can't name a concentration camp, I guess not even not sure. That's a little disturbing. I'm not sure what we should draw from that. I want to go to another survey because I because I want to highlight that there is something I'd like to draw from bank once once once that's what I want to say is that Holocaust Education is important and there are some people who may listen to this and and I have and I had dealt with them in in some of these are legislators who I've dealt with who say Holocaust Education does not translate into tolerance. And so when I see that New York has mandatory Holocaust Education But nearly sixty percent can't name a concentration camp or ghetto that disturbs me. Now. I will say this and I started interrupt you but I will say this USC survey. I found a she released a survey just last month and it comes out with three findings. And here's the quick three students with Holocaust Education have more pluralistic attitudes and are more open to differing viewpoints which includes being more comfortable with people of A different race or sexual orientation more. Generally, they are also significantly more likely to report willingness to challenge incorrect or biased information as 20% more likely in there are more likely to change has been tolerant behavior in others and stand up to negative stereotypes that's important number to when presented with a bullying scenario students who with Holocaust Education reported being more likely to offer help and we're 50% less likely to do nothing and that's an incredible finding and finally students exposed to Holocaust Education demonstrate higher thinking skills in a greater sense of social responsibility and Civic efficacy if Survivor testimony was part of their experience. So I guess if we contrast those findings from the US you show off Vision with those from the claims conference. Is it important to know the name of a concentration camp or ghetto should these findings concern us? Cuz it say something about education or do we take what the Shoah Foundation gives us and say even though they may not be able to name a specific concentration camp. There are still major benefits to to studying this. How do you read that? How do you how do you process that long? So there's clearly major benefits to teaching about the Holocaust i instead of giving you a direct answer. Let me go in a more secure just route and answer differently. This is New York. So let's take the city of New York, which has a Jewish population of approximately 15% Okay, and yet 60% of people in New York can't name a concentration camp. So where is Jews are off somewhere around 2% of the US population and many Americans have never measured you in New York Jews or 15% So, everybody's measured you so let's take that 15% number and compare it to the city of illness with 45% off of the population was Jewish. Proportionately three times as many Jews lived in Vilnius as loved as live in New York and yet. Let's do any ins in Vilnius. Enthusiastically murdered the Jewish population of the city. Now these people were not unfamiliar because all she thought the city was Jewish and half the city. So so the non-jewish half of the city murdered the Jewish half of the city wage. All right, or or plug that they Goods or witnessed the murder without without objection. So, you know familiarity with a victory doesn't prevent victimization. education You've just given us the results of that education. Now if we want a peaceful Society that's going to be Progressive. Peaceful with human rights compassion less fossil abuse less child abuse less abuse in general have less abuse in general. We need education and if the education is so deficient that sixty percent can't name. A concentration camp and still has such positive results. Then we need to say perhaps the education is inadequate perhaps it needs to be more intense or updated email updates. And by the way, I'm not sure up. I'll say that in California. I don't believe we've updated the Holocaust and genocide curriculum since the eighties and I think that could contribute and in the findings that you have uncovered just in the time that you have done research. These are important findings that probably should find their way to classrooms, correct? Yeah, correct because it's not about it's not about what happened seventy-five years ago. Yeah. It's about what's happening in the world today, right? And what's going to happen in the world tomorrow and the year after that. These are lessons people need to learn to ensure that never again actually does mean something dead. Exactly. Now I've been holding up your story. I apologize. Let's do your story. Now. What have you got for us this week Dillon got back to the North Korea issue with us. Okay, you have kids porches in poker Roy in Pokhara. Yes, growing a genocide and murder. Yes, but it wasn't only that song on America's birthday. And when was his birthday, when was his birthday? I think it was October 8th. It was last week, It's just within the last few days. So it's absolutely fascinating because here is a a case study in Holocaust now for you. Last year a geologist that is a public relations consultant for the Lithuanian government wrote an entire life fraudulent report. That Nora was saving Jews. Do you say did you see a geologist? Yes as a geologist. Yes. What is a geologist doing doing writing a report about Well, if if you failed a geology and now he's a public relations person and he's pretending to be a long story and and the country puts them at the head of their historical research. I mean, it's to be kidding me who does this guy work you have a geologist and where does this guy work you work something with you in genocide Center in Lithuanian genocide Center is run and managed and governed by what by who by the Lithuanian government and its job and reports on on the history of of Lithuania. So just to just to repeat for a listener's the official government of Lithuania genocide Center. As a geologist in charge of historical research go on or he's he's not necessarily in charge. He's one of the people in charge. Okay, the person in charge said it affects and really matter to her. It was whether the person that was reporting them really believed them. Facts don't matter it's whether they're person reporting them really believe for them. Okay what I did with it wasn't an exact wording, but it was something along those lines got it. And this this is a geologist is is is a known to sort of history and he writes an entirely false report saying that that Noriega was rescuing Jews. Well, it was a complete absurdity and three of the top academics in Lithuania lambaste it with the government and said it's offensive. It's dishonest. It's absurd and the geology came out with a statement that said, oh people shouldn't take it too. Seriously. It was just his opinion. However, it was submitted as a finding of fact for the Lithuanian government and entered into the formal record as a finding effect now. Yeah, so so I sued the government twice just over that false finding effect and there was no possibility of having anybody review the facts in the case. So just just real quick for for listeners who may not be entirely familiar with the story. Can you just give a quick you know thirty seconds? Who is Jonas norika? Yes, you understand. Rekha was a mass genocide on off of juice. He was the one that wrote the mine come from Lithuania. He Signed the orders to get reduced to plunder their property to to wear the yellow star. He was a truly evil man, and he's been elevated to one of Lithuania is greatest national heroes, and he's honored and you know, they they have marches and sing anthems to him on his birthday much took like some Nazis do on Hitler's birthday. And how do you find how did you find out about this guy? Because he was the one that murdered my relatives think it's important for people to know God, right? So so in Iraq is responsible for the murder of approximately 100 of my own relatives. So we've identified him and exposed him and the government has engaged in in in wholesale Holocaust revisionism and fraud and there is no accountability. The a no path to truth within Lithuania. So in Dublin down on on their fraud this geologist rights as false report and when did this report come out? Oh just some time last year. Okay, the birthday was last week. The birthday was last week in the report was probably about a year old girl. Okay. So now did they did they re-release the report or was this was so after the scandal in in in Lithuania where personal historians lambasted this and and this geologist said, well, it was only his opinion it all inquired about but last week for no records birthday. The government issued a public statement that Noriko was saving Jews. Say that again say that again the genocide Center released a public statement saying that he was a savior of Jews, correct? Window just went their statements say exactly it was clausius. And yes, it's in Lithuanian. It's in Lithuanian. They said in his speech. Army was saved used spare time. He was having Jersey quite the words, but I mean essentially that's where it was in reality. He's a murderer in reality took approximately 14 and 1/2 thousand Jews unbelievable. But the less you were in government has fully engaged in Holocaust fraud so long as you talk about education, you know, so now the government of Lithuania Is taking deliberately falsified information and going out to children. In a city like per koi and saying to these kids. Oh you should march with tiki torches. And you should sing Anthems for this mass murderer and these young minds have absolutely no idea how they are being programmed. Well, it's exact same way as Hitler Youth was programmed. You know, when when I hear you when I hear you describe this and I and I'm envisioning in my mind what this might look like in in person and I think about the implications of this. I can't help but come to two conclusions. Maybe three one is why did we fight World War II then if if this if this is a this is what we're allowing to happen in 2020. What was the point of the massive sacrifice of World War Two not to mention the Six Million Jews who were murdered but the massive sacrifice of others who helped to liberate Europe from from Nazi Germany if this is what we're allowing to happen in a European country today number one, that's that's my first thought number to Thursday. No that in this country in the United States and in I guess and and in places around the world, especially in Europe white supremacy is one of the key drivers of domestic terrorism. Yes, and number three Lithuania. The government of Lithuania is engaging in state-sponsored dead. You know the state-sponsored creation of white supremacy in white chest ilysm. Yes and in Hawaii and and and that the United States allows this to happen with somebody who with their with a nation that is ostensibly our Ally. How does this happen today in in the year 2020. How does this happen often account onto the question for you? It's it's something I wonder about regularly where our public officials on this and why it allowed to happen. You know, Lithuania is is a member of the European Union the European Union 650 knows what they doing lithuanians a member of NATO. Well, I imagine our government in the United States. Knows what they're doing. So our our American soldiers going to go and protect this kind of ideology put our American soldiers and our tax dollars at risk to to protect a country that that does this. These questions are not able to answer. I hopefully I'll listeners will be able to to email us and then in and explain to us why why this is allowed to happen because wage well, yeah, but we what we should say that, you know, we we have done a lot of work together to try to raise awareness about this issue at least an hour local municipalities. And by the way, we encourage our listeners to view our landing page at Israel USA. Org forward slash Holocaust. And find out more information about this is to take action, but I think that you know, we we've hit on something that is absolutely critical. I mean, we we as a nation would prefer iced a great deal come to liberate Europe and to see the seeds of Nazism. That's that's really all how I can see it to see the sort of Nazi ISM being sown again. And to do nothing about it. Let me give you another example of of of what happened this last week in Lithuania years away Nia Allied itself with the Nazis and and and and much of their leadership were Nazis. So he could ask a quick question about that gives us the leadership today in Lithuania in the government today. I don't know who the president prime minister or other legislators are do they have do they have like our roots that connect to Nazis in other words where they collaborators or straight up from Nazi Germany, but what does that look like? Do you know how long you know there's there's people there that are still hold the Nazi ideology. There's people that don't I mean this this is rather decisions birth. Our descendants. Yes, you know, I guess we have to be they had an election. They had an election in in Lithuania last week know and a local citizen that saved me photographs of that. He took inside one of the candidates homes and it was a whole bunch of Nazi paraphernalia home. And he said, do you have any suggestion what I should do with us? And you know, I don't you know, it's it's for the electorate there to to determine what values they they want to hold and if that's what if that's what they're voting for. That's That's their ideology. Not ours that Progressive. Do you know I don't think it's pervasive. I mean, you know, even even in Germany that the it took the Nazis a long time to to gain a foothold and then they started educating with false information and proper wage and until they had a mess following. So at this point there's definitely a segment of society that if they were able to murder the Jews all over again, I believe that segment of society would but the majority of lithuanians are decent people and are either looking away as bystanders or off or don't know. So but but but think of this the many of the people that they adore as as they national heroes were not home. They don't feature them as Nazis. They don't point out there not see Heritage or adherence, but would Germany in Germany hold up anybody as a hero, that was a member of a Nazi party the answer to that is no would do United States hold off as a hero somebody that was a member of the KKK the answer to that is no but does Lithuania hold up? As Heroes people that were what they called White arm band has or or Nazis. And yes, it's incredibly common. It's absolutely incredibly incredibly common. So so in this may be a little bit of a dense question, but I bought it comes to mind and and to me it to me it matters, but does it does it if they're not promoting what let me let me ask it this way. What's worse than the fact that they are promoting false Heroes that they're providing false history. Or is the fact that they're promoting people who were Nazis and the public doesn't know about it. In other words. Is it is it as bad because they're they're not it's not like they have the the armbands with the swastika but they're distorting history. And so people don't know. I mean, what's what's worse? Okay, so let's take it from that angle and spin it around. It's pretty bad. I mean if I'm if I'm in Lithuania and I'm being brainwashed by the government to worship somebody who I don't I have not been taught is a Nazi it emerged Jews. I still think that's pretty bad. Okay. Yeah, so let's let's say in Los Angeles. There was a Hitler High School sure off and you send your kid to Hitler. Hi. And you said your kid? Oh, he was a great guy. He fixed the German economy. He made the trains run on time. So we naming the schedule for him because he did great work the new kid goes to school. He graduates from Hitler. Hi, he goes out into the rest of the world and they say, where did you go to school? He says, well, I went to Hitler high and they said well, did you know that Hitler was responsible for this that the next thing and the kid says no, but obviously my parents didn't think that that was relevant enough sending the getting the trains to run on time and fixing the economy was so much more important that all of those murdered people have zero relevance. Right? Right. So even if they even if they taking it from a banana fine Angle the inference is is leading to Future human rights violations, right? Because if your kid only if you could says oh murdering millions of people really isn't relevant. So, you know, if I want to find a a disenfranchised minority and murder them all well, you know, I can still if I get the trains run on time. Does that that Minority that has no relevance and I can kill them all off but I think the argument is is made to justify the murdering of that Minority to get the train strong and and and they own that or or or fix the economy or whatever problem. The state is facing. I mean anytime you I mean to me anytime. Weaponize the State against society and just separate the two and break that social contract. It's a recipe for disaster. And so, you know again, I just want to reiterate that that today at this time when anti-Semitism is on the rise again around the world that the bulb government of Lithuania a European Union member state is sowing the seeds of white nationalism and Nazism is unconscionable absolutely dead, correct, and we need to to show our legislature our legislators what our ostensible Ally is doing, you know home and and and ask the question if this is a current Ally and this is what they are teaching their youth. How long are they going to remain an ally how reliable are dead? And and what does the future hold? Listen? I'll tell you something my my grandfather I think both my grandfathers, but the one I'm most familiar with on my father's side. My grandfather fought in World War Two. He was in the United States Navy and he was very proud of that service off and it bothers me to my core to think that his sacrifice and the his service would be in vain if we offer this kind of activity to proceed today in in Europe and as an ally that we don't speak up and and I think that you know you and I have discussed this a lot. We've discussed so many brought different broadcasts. We've never quite hit on this angle before and I think it's an important perspective that we need to continue to explore. Okay. Let me just add one thing and then Thursday. Or next week. You got it. My grandfather fought or Lithuania in the war of independence. And what year was hated to him and his family. What what year was that? Took my grandfather fought for the Lithuanian war of independence and what year 1918 nineteen eighteen, okay. And look what they did to him and his family in reward for him having fought for National Independence home. So yes, what what what would our family say and what responsibilities do we have as Citizens? And when we say never again and you see Tikki torch marches in Lithuania for a mass murderer Antwi ridiculing the phrase never again. We're making it. We're making it out to be a a bumper sticker slogan. That means nothing correct and we can't allow that to happen. And I think it's it's it's it's slipped too far into that wage, um gimmicky, um, kind of space. Um, and I think we need to restore the weight of that promise and I think that's what again with with this podcast and with our discussions and the work that we're doing for those of you who are listening that that's really what our purpose here is there are ongoing issues that the Holocaust isn't just about stories of the past. It's about ongoing matters of justice and Truth today. And so I want to ask you just as a call to action as we close out this this discussion visit us online at Israel USA wage or forward slash Holocaust or just go to our web page at Israel USA. Org. You'll see the link and sign up for updates. You'll see future events and broadcasts and actions Thursday. You can take to make sure that we restore that promise of never again and make it mean something and for those of us who sacrificed or how family members that sacrificed in anyway, whether they were victims of the Holocaust or other genocides or like my family who served in the military the United States who fought to liberate Europe and and other oppressed of those around the world we have to do something this this cannot stand and it's Our obligation to make sure our officials in our leaders understand what this means to us and then it down again must must mean never again. So right so Grant I think that'll close this out for tonight. Any any last thoughts know Dylan, we we met can only make things better by exposing them. And so let's let's expose what these people are doing. And then let's get it fixed. You got it. All right, and and we will keep that promise have never again. So thank you all for listening to never again a podcast for Holocaust and genocide Justice. We will see you in the next episode.
The US Preserves Holocaust-era Archive, the EU Funds Holocaust Denial
"Hello, everybody. Thank you for listening to never again a podcast for Holocaust and genocide Justice. I'm your host Dylan Hozier from I can israeli-american Civic Action Network and with me as always is great. God grant. Hello aloe Dylan. So Grant what are we speaking about today? You go first. I I took a long time during our last our last episode. So I'm going to give you the floor. So I guess we're talking about today. Well Dylan, I'd really like to talk about your press release that you issued yesterday. Okay. Do you have it up on a link that that wage earners can can refer to it? Yes. So if you are listening and you want to see the press release from last night, you can go ahead and check out Israel usa.org and it will be listed right at the top absolutely dead. Great. It was Dylan. It was an outstandingly written very effective press release that needs to be stated. Your Lifeline was Holocaust archive protected by US federal government. Yes, and the archive was that of a mass murderer by the name of your Miss America who have mentioned on the podcast before it was his original documents on his love letters. He's his prey books from the middle award term free service by the Lithuanian government his granddaughter Sylvia foji has home and and expose her expose covers what she calls probably one of the greatest cover-ups of the twentieth century, which is the white dog. String of Nazi murderers by number of East European governments and the one of the worst Holocaust revisionist song world is the Lithuanian government who have taken people like Noriega and converted them into Heroes and Rewritten history found out it's not like anybody doesn't know that lithuanians Rewritten history. I mean it it's the standing joke when Lithuania says that they want to educate people about the Holocaust that everybody in the world knows that when they are communicating they are probably 5 or so. You know what? We need to what we actually need to address is how governments distort history and Doctrine a population into a thought process in order to manipulate them. So leading from that just woke hour ago the embassy of Lithuanian Washington DC put out a tweet that said this information about history leads to just information about the present. So they are accusing Russia of putting out historical this information in order to manipulate money. The Russian population currently but it's something that they are Masters at themselves and by pointing a finger else way. They trying to say to the rest of the world. Look it's not us. It's the Russians that are doing this. We we are horrified by it. We would never do it off which makes themselves into an international absurdity because everybody knows how morally reprehensible wage history policy is but for those that believe it This is all well Ian propaganda. and this is how a current government manipulates a current population and yes, so I was going to say so last week. We spoke about America and how it was his birthday and that the Lithuanian government had put out a some sort of document or pamphlet celebrating his uh actions saving the Jews and I think this is why the announcement from last night was so important because I'm actually reference to this archived which was given by Noriko Zone granddaughter Sylvia foti and tell us off. I don't want to speak for for you. But tell us why is archived is so important what what was in it? And what does the archive indicate and why is it value? Well the archive the archive contains so many of his so much of his own writing sure. But but before we even get into what the archive contains let's talk about why the archive had to be conveyed to the US federal government for protection wife. Sylvia didn't feel safe in keeping possession of it and why I wouldn't have felt safe in keeping possession of it. So it wasn't just bought a Goodwill donation, you know for altruistic reasons. There was some other reason behind it. Can you tell us about that? Yes, so along with the kind of government that spews falsehoods and propaganda. They also had to enforce their policy. So for example, the I have submitted multiple historical studies to the Lithuanian government months of pointing out their falsehoods and they turned around and try to intimidate me by threatening me with criminal charges right now. This is standard practice in Lithuania where people are intimidated. Now one could say that random death threats from Individual populate from Individual members of the Lithuanian Community dead. Inspired by the government, but when the government themselves put out these messages that these people are slandering. They're Heroes and there by 6 during the nation and thereby are anti-nationalist and siding With the Enemy, you know, there's lots of crackpots out there right away and these are dog whistles to the very worst elements of society. And unfortunately, I'm accustomed to with threats against me. I'm accustomed to hate mail, but Sylvia only went public two and a half years ago down in saying that it was time that she told the truth about what her grandfather did and unfortunately she dead. Has begun the more public it's become the more she has encountered intimidation and there was a recent death thrash would against her which did scare her. And it was decided that you know, her manuscript is out. That's it's it's it's already public in Spanish. It's already fought. So on Amazon in in Mexico, the English translation will only be available in March. So it's already being reviewed by book reviewers. It has it's already been edited off. So her manuscript is safe, but there was a there was a feeling that the archive itself was not safe and can you tell us what was in the archived and why it's valuable. Well, that's actually not for me to to tell it was the his original letters off. That he wrote to his that he wrote to his wife from sort of concentration camp. Now Lithuania holds out a distraction that he was instructed of concentration camp as some kind of of meaning that he opposed to Nazis but his opposition to the Nazis only began in 1943 after heat completed the murder of all the Jews and that opposition was he wanted Independence for Lithuania from Nazi Germany Nazi. Germany had no intention of giving Lithuanian Independence. They had duped noreika. He did their dirty work for them enthusiastically dead. And once he'd finished doing the dirty work and he still wanted Independence, they put him and his co-conspirators back in start off. But the way they did it was was in the form of Honor prisoners where the head clothing and beds and food and they didn't have to work and you know, the very concept that a prisoner of a concentration camp. Could write letters right to his wife. I mean, it's incomprehensible unless you know them these who are honored prisoners that were merely being custody need in this location. But they weren't it wasn't much of a punishment. I mean at first when they arrived at stove and the Concentration Camp staff didn't know that they were supposed to be treated his own prisoners. Yes, they were given a rough time. But once Himmler conveyed to sort of know these are honored often as not to be mistreated. He was treated like a king so Sylvia had never actually copied scanned. There was no backup of some of this material and these were original documents. That have not been seen by anybody else. So the value here is not the content of the letters, but the fact that there are even letters at all indicate that he was as you say designated as this honored prisoner. Not only that that that that the letters exists but but there is very interesting information to be gleaned from those letters. Okay, his also official telegrams. There's there's official communication now Sylvia went to the Lithuanian government and I said, I'd like to provide testimony and they absolutely rejected her because it didn't comply with their life opaganda, right? So they wouldn't even allow her to present evidence that of of of what prestige And they not it wasn't just the government that rejected the the government rejected it in a courtroom as well and the court went down with us. So Lithuania as a stage has no interest in in in the facts. It is their propaganda that they strong-armed and divorce which says that they haven't matured much from the Soviet ideology that they lived under because their tactics are not that dissimilar. So so the latest went now to my mind the the the item that way it is is going to be the best for the Holocaust Museum to display is this Grand medal given by the Lithuanian government to offer he service and he service to the stage included murdering. 14,500 Jews one at a time. Men women children babies the elderly the sick the disabled the the mentally disabled the doctors the scientists the the mothers grandmothers noreika murdered one 14,500. Of his own citizens simply because they were Jews and this was part of the service to the state and his awards were for the service to the state home. So You know fundamental to a maturing Society is an education about the history and the mistakes of a state wage. It's clear that the stage doesn't believe that murdering. 14,500 Jews was an error because despite all of the evidence. We've provided to them they continue to honor him and just revise the facts and then they go on at the UN and the Embassy in Washington DC and all their other embassies to complain that other countries Tulsa fi history. You know, this is an object lesson for the rest of the world in how a country song has escaped Soviet mentality. But then reinforced it and built upon it even further. Well, I mean maybe a better way of putting it as they've they've escaped Soviet occupation but embraced Soviet mentality. Yes, that's a very good way of putting that that seems to make sense to me. Well, that's that's extraordinary. So if you are interested in learning more about this as Grant had and we have a release on our website, which is available at Israel USA and you can learn more about the story and of course as always if you need to learn more about our efforts to combat Holocaust Distortion and denial in Europe, you can visit Israel usa.org forward slash Holocaust and that will take you to our our landing page on that issue. Uh, so shall we get to my couple stories? I have a couple of course he's all right. So the first thing is I thought it would be nice to mention. This doesn't count as one of my stories but But I wanted to just say since we talked about the US Holocaust Memorial Museum because they're the ones who have received the archive. It just came out yesterday that the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum will be reopening for visitors on Monday, October 26th, the museum made the announcement on a Wednesday October 21st. And of course rated on social media, the museum is opening on a limited basis with new visitor requirements and safety measures in place due to the covid-19 pandemic a couple of main safety guidelines include reserving tickets before visiting the museum wearing a face covering of course, maintaining social distancing while visiting and having a temperature check before being allowed entry. So go ahead and you can visit the US Holocaust Memorial Museum at u. S hmm and reserve your tickets. So I just wanted to make that quick announcement since we talked about the archive being held at the At the Museum, you know and and and and just to add to that now they will take they will take at least two years mm. Put all of the items in all of the documents through a complete preservation process and fully inventory everything before they even decide on on whether to make a display out of this but imagine imagine the Holocaust which is down most documented genocide in history the entire Washington DC Holocaust Museum, and then took a display within the museum on Holocaust revisionism. It's not just a piece about history, but it's what a it goes so fast to show what the European Union government. That's a member of NATO. I can engage in today and unless citizens stand up and say no not in our name. They might have even gotten away with it. Right so, you know Sylvia to stand up with dignity and respect and sorrow and say not in my name you are not going to use my family to revise the Holocaust you are not going gauge in Holocaust denial using my family as your tool. She is one extraordinary human being G and and I hope the world recognizes that issue course, we will do our best to make sure they do so. All right, so I have two quick stories for you. Do you want to start at home here in the United States or birth? Let's start with him. All right this first story and you don't know what you don't know what I'm going to do. So this is a surprise for you this first story actually. It takes place in Anchorage, Alaska. Well, that's unusual. Okay, I'm only has so the headline is and tell me if you heard this this so this was just published yesterday Anchorage man. This is Anchorage Alaska Anchorage mayonnaise ordered to learn about the Holocaust as part of sentence for federal weapons violations. Wow. So let me let me read you the story in Anchorage man was required to learn about the Holocaust and read about overcoming extremist beliefs as part of his sentence in a federal court for illegally owning a machine gun and silencers investigators and prosecutors had expressed concern that Michael Graves now twenty one could have potentially used the weapons in his possession to commit a mass shooting because of a number of tweets. He had posted that featured a violent rhetoric aimed minority groups wage Graves was sentenced to Wednesday to eighteen months in prison time that he's already served since his arrest. He will be on supervised release for the next three years as part of the plea agreement Graves also read specific day. Books and took classes during his incarceration that were aimed at moving him away from extremist viewpoints Graves who spoke at Wednesday's hearing said, he's a better person because of the educational experience. Here's the quote. I want to apologize to everyone that's here about what I said online. I always on a network with Creed individuals who said similar things to what I had said on reflection of those things. I see how horrid a lot of the these are and I'm sorry for what I said. I do not believe in Prejudice or violence of any kind so it goes on but I thought this was an interesting. I thought it was an interesting story here. I just read the last two paragraphs during his incarceration Graves Red Rising out of hatred and educated two titles, which were meant to encourage him to move away from extremist Viewpoint. He was also required to learn about the Holocaust Graves wrote essays about what he learned including Reflections on the materials. And here's what the US attorney says, and then I'll we'll go to the next story quote the overages. Our goal is to lean forward as much as possible and try to be creative to stop Mass Shooters recognizing that mass Shooters over the last few years have engaged in Acts that bury a lot of similarities. This is a a Thursday is Attorney James Walker. One of the similarities is that it all starts with a grievance in that grievance is particular to the person from what we've seen is that people latch onto information that enables them to transition that grievance into action. So I thought this was an interesting story a unique sentence from a judge. I've never heard of such a thing to require volt defendant to or a perpetrator rather in this case our potential perpetrator to learn about the Holocaust really think I think it's absolutely fantastic, you know, when when people learn about Injustice and how easily it's it's a formed Then they can see the their own errors, right? So once again, let's let's use this as an example and contrast the truth uranium. So what are some bulbs in Lithuania then do when they taught that a mass genocide or murderer should be here or worshipped right? That's that's yeah, we discussed that last week. Yeah. Yep. Yep, okay. Well, and I think that it's it's it's concerning, you know, I was thinking about it over the past week from since our last episode and you know, I can't imagine you know, the the the the imagery that we discussed. I mean you would mention to the children celebrating the birthday of a man who killed over fourteen thousand Jews 14,500 Jews and the the image of children dancing and with tiki torches and whatever now I know they're not dancing with tiki torches with Nazi armbands or or whatever. But at some point they'll be confronted with the reality whether it's with in Lithuania or outside of Lithuania at some point they're going to confront the reality that this guy was a a mass murderer and I mean, it's the psychological either damaged or the encouragement to embrace white nationalism or other sorts of extremist viewpoints. Is mind-boggling. I mean it's you know that the idea that that has happened today in a you member state is shocking to me talking about talking especially when they've been so many studies on on on the effects of teaching this kind of of ideology right and yet they continue at the highest levels of government in the European Union leadership. It's shocking. All right ready for the next one. Absolutely. Let's go headline you money. This is the story from abroad you money used by Neo-Nazi to promote Holocaust denial you hear about this know what this is out of Brussels and here we go. Here's the story European Parliament funds were used to promote Holocaust deniers in a series of newsletters published by a German Neo-Nazi dog. Build for hate crimes w b Maiden North very clogged which I guess is a firm a small mail-order firm managed by a militant Neo-Nazi named thorsten highs received some thirty-five thousand Euros of European Parliament money in 2018 highs is criminal record includes the attempted murder of a Lebanese Refugee appearing in uniform at a Rudolf Hess Memorial March just distribution of CDs to incite hatred against minorities and violent assaults. He is known to organize Neo-Nazi concerts and launched a record label spouting the same music from his home in three D. A Central State in Germany where people recently voted voted in a fascist for a city council chair. The money was handed over by Germany's you don't avoid violent when he was still an MEP representing the ultra-nationalist wage. National Democratic party of Germany in this story is published by EU Observer which obtained six of the newsletters published by highs for void via a freedom of information request. The request was made after a European Parliament official in charge of so-called non-attached MVPs refused to disclose how the money was spent by off as a red flag. The newsletters are entitled nation in Europa, and we're primarily written by Gloria fires of the Nazi regime and Holocaust deniers alongside short beds by avoid some of the writers had accompanied void as quote-unquote journalists on his parliamentary trips to Azerbaijan, Lebanon, Romania, Serbia and Syria long as there were spending rules of violated among the more prominent writers was Karl Richter a Saxony NPD parliamentary staff member who dedicated a newsletter to Holocaust denier wage. So I have her Beck. Do you know this name, beg a right-wing extremist with links to the MPD half Rebecca claims. The murder of millions of Jews was a historical fiction and Ally the octogenarian half Rebecca was sentenced to a two and half year prison term in 2016 for Holocaust denial a crime in Germany that verdict followed a separate and earlier 11 a month jail sentence for incitement to hate off her face her face, then made front cover of one of the eu-funded newsletters followed by large block title demanding her immediate release avoid status as a dog attached to member is written in fine print in the top right-hand corner. This may be a violation of European Parliament rules, which says cover pages must clearly State the name of the MEP involved unbelievable both the name and status of the MEP must be prominent and they must appear on the cover page of any publication or information material produced according to those rules. I wonder what other rules they violated I have heard Becks name pops up throughout the week. Other newsletters as to other Holocaust deniers like horse smaller who once tried unsuccessfully to seek asylum in Hungary to avoid jail and Germany other writers include Neo-Nazi activist Angelica willing avoids parliamentary assistant Kirsten radziminski and former NPD chair wehmanen together. They depicted voice and MEP for the NPD from 2014 to 2019 as a seasoned Statesman who defended European identity against a liberal Elite. So kind of goes on but I just you know, I thought this was extraordinary that again, you know, we we talked a lot about Europe and and what is going down in Europe with regard to Lithuania. And here we have European Parliament money being used to finance a m e p s holocaust-denying content. Well, I mean look at look at that tweet. Look at that tweets that came out of the Lithuanian embassy in Washington DC and there was another tweet that came out of the Lithuanian embassy to the United Nations today. I mean just containing pure just information. So this is a here's here's my question. Here's my question, you know, we we we talked about I mean we talk about what we see. The perception though is that Europe is some sort of sorry European Union. The European Union is supposed to be a liberal Progressive, you know, some kind of Pinnacle of of a liberal Western democracy. When I see stuff like this and when I look at the activities that we're seeing in Lithuania, I have serious doubts. And so I wonder is it is it that way the nation is just so focused on being a technocracy that it ignores these kinds of has like the incapacity to acknowledge these immoral and not not just a moral. It's the illegal obviously, but they just can't recognize. I mean, how does this happen? What is going on in Europe with this or is that or is it an unfair comparison? Because we do have a leakage in tax dollars in in America being used to publish this but we do obviously have our own white supremacy problem here in the United States, but to have U dollars used for such a publication seems outrageous wage. Its it it to me. It's just outrageous. It's just it's just inexplicable and And by the way, by the way, just to reiterate how did this whole thing come up because Ministers of European Parliament refused to disclose how many how the money was spent and by whom during your Freedom of Information Act request now as somebody who has done public records request in the past, that's a huge red flag it obviously they were trying to cover it up. So not only Not only was European Union money spent but then they tried to cover it up. Okay, but but you know what I take away from that Dylan is that some citizen filed a freedom of information request? Sure. Yeah, so, it means that the citizens of every stage need to be vigilant right twenty-four hours a day just as Sylvia was Vigilant about the cover-up about her grandfather and as a citizen of Lithuania, I've been trying to expose it. This is a good citizen that was holding their government to to appropriate conduct and you know, if citizens across the world held their governments to account for their conduct. That is the essence of a democracy and if we want to call ourselves a democracy, we should be active participants agree. And I think that's a good point too close on page is that we have to remain Vigilant and and not not just that we need to engage our government and engage our democracy. But we also need to engage it for the right reasons because there are people who engage it for the wrong reasons who want to shift our democracies in certain directions. Remember Hitler didn't come to power through violent takeover. And you know, he came to power through Democratic institutions. So I think you know the right people and the righteous people and you know people like like you and Sylvia who fight for this on a daily basis minute-by-minute 7 days a week you need to keep fighting and we need to continue to engage our government educate our officials who lead us I mean a lot of people are unaware of what's going on Thursday. And I think this is this is key and important work. So any last thoughts Dylan, I think you're phenomenal guy. I think you're doing a phenomenal job you to my friend off and you know, what your your organization I can is one of the most effective organizations on Civic action that I have ever encountered in my fifty-seven years of life and I congratulate you and I admire you don't be so nice. We got a lot of got more shows left to do together my friend wage. I appreciate the compliment if I think you did something wrong, I'll tell you them too. Well, I appreciate the compliment and listen. I mean we can't do it without people like you and and and again I I I personally organizational work aside and everything. I'm grateful that I finally understood the the important work that you were doing after all these years and happy to to join you in your efforts job. So and so everyone I want to thank you for listening to never again a podcast for Holocaust and genocide Justice. We will see you next week as always. If you want to support our work, please visit Israel usa.org click on that give button and and help to support our important efforts fighting Holocaust denial and and Distortion in Europe and around the world. Thank you, and we will see you next week.
The Search for Holocaust Truth and Justice
"Hello, and thank you for listening to never again a podcast for Holocaust and genocide Justice from I can walk the israeli-american Civic Action Network. I'm your host Dylan Hozier. And with me is Grant Gustin Grant. This is our first podcast together. So let's talk a little bit about who we are what your go ahead and go. Hey Dylan, thank you so much. It's good to do this podcast with you. There's a lot to discuss is a lot to learn. There's a lot to teach there's a lot of people should know I just introduce myself. I'm husband our businesses wealth management. And in my spare time. I am a holocaust activists, which means that I'm an activist for a Justice on Holocaust issues that have not been addressed and Dylan there are many there are a great number of issues that still need to be explored rectified and Truth told and it is my mission in life to tell these truths so that the perpetrators are known and the victims are at least identified and given truth about who murdered them and To let them rest easier so that people know what happened to them how it happened and that future Generations will be sure that this will never happen a game great. So for those who don't know I am a government Relations Specialist, which is kind of a fancy way of saying I'm a lobbyist. I've worked for the Israeli government. I do a lot of Israel advocacy and advocacy for the Jewish communities and other visual communities here the United States and you know Grant used an interesting term Holocaust activist and I now count my myself also as a holocaust activist off and that's a term that just probably a year ago or so. I would not recognize or even really comprehend what that term means dead. And so Grant you and I over the past I guess about a year or so have have been engaged in a campaign, which I think is focused on truth and justice for Holocaust victims and but also survivors and I thought you know, we in more recently over the past few months. We've done several broadcasts that have dealt very deeply and intimately into this issue of Holocaust Distortion perpetuated by a Lithuanian government and sponsored by the Lithuanian government. And I think that you know from from my standpoint of somebody who is new to this issue. And who had a very basic knowledge of the Holocaust before I met you. I kind of wanted to walk through that journey and not all that story for others who may also be where I was just a year or so ago and and maybe not have as much knowledge about the Holocaust and so that they're aware of what's happening today. And so that they can get active and take action today and support of Holocaust and genocide justice. So can we can we dive in fact that issue its time in Dublin? All right. So let's you know, I think I think you know one thing that's interesting is there was a Pew study that was released back in January of 2020 that showed that. Let me see. I have it here fewer than half of Americans 43% knew that Adolf Hitler became The chancellor of Germany through a democratic political process and nearly three in ten Americans say they are not sure how many Jews died during the Holocaust home now. I my knowledge I think was a little bit better than that. I mean, I knew that I knew that Hitler came to power through Democratic process. I thought that six million Jews had been killed I knew about Auschwitz but that was probably it and I I will say that in, you know, look I'm the product of a public school education, which was great, but we didn't dive into this issue and I threw my work doing Israel. Advocacy. I knew about institutions like the claims conference. So I knew that there were issues with property and of course I had seen that great movie wage. When in Gold so that added a little layer of knowledge a hint of knowledge to the issue of Holocaust Justice and activism, but when I met met you the picture became I think much clearer and frankly disturbing and and scarier to be honest wage that in modern times and I think when you and I really connected on this issue with right around when Poland had passed its Holocaust law and that you opened my eyes and kind of filled me in with what Lithuania was doing. So can we talk a little bit about that? Can we talk a little bit about Lithuania and its campaign and maybe we can I know that Poland has changed it's it's logged to be less so it doesn't belong We before we dive into specifics. It's just talk about genocides in general. Yeah genocide is a natural state of The Human Condition. We know of genocides going back for five thousand years. I grew up on the African continent there have been so many genocides on the African continent. There have been genocides in Europe. There was a genocide in North America of Native Americans. There was a genocide in Australia of Aborigines genocide is not uncommon in human history wage difference between the Holocaust and other genocides is that the Holocaust was done on an industrial scale using modern equipment wage. murdering numbers that were just extraordinary just is just as a first point object to Thursday when people say people died in the Holocaust they didn't died in the Holocaust there were murdered right so You know, somebody made of old age or somebody made owner of an illness, but there weren't many people that died of natural causes during the Holocaust they were deliberately slaughtered and often in the cruelest way imaginable in order and and and and maximizing human humiliation cruelty take up to levels that word known in in in The Human Condition. And they weren't many regrets. You know after the war there were recordings made off of of Nazis talking to each other and and they didn't enhance out they they they didn't regret what they done they lied about what they've done with a they taught their progeny that Jews were responsible, you know, there was so much misinformation, but but that is that's a pet peeve of mine when people say six million died down six million women added, right, right. Yes, so it up so. And that and that I think is is important. It's an important distinction to make and I agree with you by the way, and that's one of the issues that as it relates to the Holocaust and as someone who who cares about democracy and government, I I recognize that there were six million Jews who were targeted for extermination and slaughtered by the state and as somebody who works with the state and who works with governments that is such a a violation of the social contract between State Society. That's one thing. I I personally I mean whatever basic knowledge I had about the Holocaust that's what always made me feel a certain. I mean sorrow I guess is is a word but not not not strong enough of a word but when I learned that there were still outstanding issues when I learned that there were still some open items and and and Justice still to be found in truth still to be found and that's that's where you know, I finally understood where you know for for years. They've known you for a while and and four years you had spoken about Lithuania, but it wasn't until Poland passed its Holocaust law where I really understood that wow, how is it possible that in 2018? In this era some 70 years or whatever. It's been since since the end of World War II. How is it that a government would seemingly criminalize speech related to the Holocaust. I know it's a complex issue. I know that there there are nuances to it. But that as a lay person who saw on the news, that's how I interpreted it. Can you talk a little bit about that law and then maybe how Lithuania fits into this and how they try to follow suit. Can you kind of explore that a little bit with me? Well, it's not exactly as if Lithuania is following suit because Lithuania was one of the very first and most egregious so crazy about the Holocaust was a gradual process. Germany was the first to tell the truth about the Holocaust and it wasn't voluntary dead. American troops went in and they put in a process which was called denazification where people were forced to tell the truth but it didn't happen for a really long term because the judges and the German courts had been Nazis and remained at heart Nazis and they were in charge of the whole process. So, excuse me, so they would rule on they would rule on these cases and they would declare perpetrators innocent because that was a genda so the denazification process was a very defective process, but it was all at the Americans could do and were able to do and gradually it took Home Society. So the war ended in forty-five it wasn't until the step the mid-to-late 70s their truth really took home. In Germany, so it took them twenty thirty years before they really started coming to terms of the history. You know in in the case of a country like Lithuania Lithuania was liberated from the Soviets thirty years ago. So if you say that Lithuania is going to flash the same denazification processed. Well, it's 30 years and they are still all the way there. They they have not bought a reformed and and and and don't make the assumption that Germany is all the way there because they not so often Lithuania is is particularly egregious because it's a country where there are murder sites and death puts every few miles down absolutely inescapable when in Lithuania to not to see the mass murder sites. Possible deny the Holocaust in the area but what Lithuania does is say? Well, it's not our fault the Germans the Nazis the Soviets did at home. We were just innocent victims which is entirely untrue because the Nazi process also began in the thirties and not to weigh near where the lithuanians Allied themselves and align themselves to the Nazis and started spewing the same Jew hate the same and Elation list elimination list theology that they taught to their population. That was propaganda back into the public domain. and you don't Jews who? Spoke mostly a different language who looked different from the lithuanians. It was easy to segregate. I think I think that's that by the way is a Thursday is a core element of the truth that I didn't know. I didn't understand and and by the way, I don't think I understood that as truth. Um, probably until within the last year. I didn't understand that there were collaborators who murdered Jews that were not necessarily part of Nazi Germany, right? So so remember in the beginning I said, there were there were Nazis. We we agreed there were Nazis who murdered Jews. I'm sorry six million Jews were murdered off. The assumption is that it's the Nazis who killed the Jews who murdered the choice. Right? Right. And so that that to me is a huge component where even even people I I speak dog. even today don't realize that there was average lithuanians in this case Huger killing their neighbors and I think you know you and I had had a conversation with Efraim zuroff e makes the the point and this is a such a strong point to make that there weren't enough Nazis to kill the number of Jews that that were murdered you had to have wage another um, uh group of people murdering them and that that is something I think most Americans don't know look it's it's a very easy to Had one segment of society against another sure what we're pushing it today, by the way. Well, we've not very far from where they are dead. Right, right you you can see how once segment of society is being pitted against the other, you know, if if there is underlying hatred and bigotry and you put one the ills of society well, if you just eliminate that segment of society, you will will all be gone that segment of society cause every problem that you have off and every problem that they will ever be and if you eliminate them you will be fine and if you keep repeating that message over and over and over again and people start believing it Then it's easy to make it happen. And that is what happened in the few area. The the society was somewhat separate page Jews were a society within a society. They were an identifiable minority you could Very often just look at somebody and identify if they were an ethnic Lithuanian or an ethnic Jew and hatred is Ronald up and then the wheels came off the wagon the murders started before the Germans got there. But that that to me is an amazing fact by the way home that to me is an amazing fact. I think it's so important for people to realize that the murders happened before the Germans even got there. now the Holocaust in Lithuania I'm sorry. You're breaking up a little bit. Can you have your back? Okay, so the Holocaust in Lithuania would have happened because it wouldn't have been possible for them to have murdered hundreds of thousands of individuals without the Nazis being there. So let's say these conditions were created but the Nazis haven't gone into Lithuania, so maybe ten thousand. who knows but the Nazi went into Lithuania and facilitated and allowed these human rights violations to occur meant that the Holocaust wage and so the Holocaust began in Lithuania before the Nazis arrived and then the Nazis arrival facilitate the environment where it continued home, but there were very few Nazis in Lithuania. There were very few Germans posted in Lithuania because it was an ally and so they didn't need me to really occupy. They were welcomed. right and the Germans gave the lithuanians license to murder Slaughter Rob pillage rape and so they did and there were actually get instances where Nazis complained to their superiors that the lithuanians were. So Savage in their cruelty and brutality see that Nazis couldn't tolerate it. Right? Well, they were instances where Jews went to Nazis and said we know you're going to kill us off but could you just kill us without torturing and humiliating us first because the lithuanians were so brutal that can you imagine a Jew going to a Nazi officer asked for Less brutality and Foster murder when it's it's Unthinkable it is but the Lithuanian the Lithuanian Society Lost all semblance of civilization one brother would go out trying to rescue a Jew and another brother would go out murdering Jews took a husband would be saving a Jew while the wife was screaming. That's a Jew go kill them, right? You know, somebody would go and say hey that's my Jew. I know them don't kill that Jew but that same person would be killing another Jew. So this is society enabled the murders and off if we do not learn these lessons. Then it can happen again and in a country such as Lithuania where they where they teach lies wage Holocaust perpetrators and actively distort the record. It facilitates. Others to say, look let's away. Nia is lying. Everybody knows that they're lying, but they getting away with it. Right? So if we want to murder of a minority in our country, we could do that and we could follow the Lithuanian model absolutely and we can get away with it. It facilitates the next genocide and that's why it needs to be stopped. Now, you know is Lithuania the only one in the world that's doing it. No, they're not dead. But you know what? It's the most obvious. Yeah. It's the I mean everybody knows every Lithuania knows that the government is lying about this the Lithuanian government itself. They know that members are lying about it. The courts know that the government is lying about and the courts are home. Lithuania is facilitating the next genocide because the next perpetrator is going to say look, let's near got away with it. And so can we I mean Hitler said nobody remembers what was done to the Armenians right off. So Hitler used the the Amnesia about the slaughter of the Armenians in order to undertake a thought of the Jews and It it it's just an obvious example. So if we want to protect the next victim group, we have no we have no possibility of not focusing on lithuanians Holocaust revisionism. Because if we don't we will be facilitating. The the the next genocide and we will be partially responsible because we didn't stand up and object. I completely agree. And I mean, I think that's what my I mean if we step back and just take the high-level view of what we've been discussing two things come to my mind and that is again, I'm just just to reiterate somebody who had basic knowledge of of the Holocaust the story that you're describing the story that you're telling the history that you're sharing. It's Crystal for people to understand because it's important to understand how Society can be twisted and activated against another segment of society and not and I think it's important for people to understand that that happened. But I also think it's important for people to understand that a government today is actively trying to hide and mask that history and distort that history and in a civil society that should not be permitted and like you say we can't be silent because we're we would be complicit if we're if we're silent and so those two things that that neighbor neighbor and that and that truth something that is so basic and obvious. I mean, we we have records we have documents that show what what happened and that a member of the European Union which is supposed to be a vast a liberal democracy. EU member state is is engaging this activity to me off today is shocking and almost Unthinkable but Dylan that that that is a common error that people make look we in the club. It's it's right. Now. We're going through an election. The president of the United States called the African continent the shuttle you. Yeah, So if one looks at us and says, okay, he's calling the African continent to shut all because there are genocides off and government theft of property. Well only seventy-five years ago. There were it was a massive genocide of Jews and Thursday, and gay people in Europe government was stealing personal property still today still today the bulb part of the reason that Lithuania is covering up the Holocaust is because they don't want to return stolen property. So it's holding onto age. stolen property current after previous left it it's actually current theft because they know it's stolen property and they don't want to give us so you can't say you can't say that Europe is so different from the African continent because these events is separated by 75 years. Which yeah, I just mean the yeah. Yeah. I understand. I just mean the perception that certainly the the brand that the page gives off. You would be surprised to learn that this is happening and it with an EU member State and I think also I mean, correct and correct me if I'm wrong then I I'm I'm coming at this from a a place of ignorance but Germany and Austria, how are they? How are they with the truth how they deal with their truth? Well, Austria's coming to the table or more and and by austrian-german, I mean the governments of I think I think distinguishing between the governments of and the societies of its job. Very different things. So I mean we can focus maybe more easily on government actions than on changing hearts and minds of society. So what have their governments of Austria and Germany done to accept off their truth as it relates to the Holocaust the governments of Austria and Germany. According to my understanding or being very proactive about telling the truth. returning stolen property reporting facts about who perpetrated the murders about the society that riled up the hatred. They trying to educate the population Indian sure. It doesn't happen. Again. The natural state of a human being is a violent raw uneducated being if we do not educate and train children not to be violent perpetrators. They will become violent perpetrators. So it's a matter of educating our population's what is right and what is wrong in that case of of Lithuania again? They are teaching their population that Holocaust perpetrators Were Heroes. Well, if you'll go out and you murder ten thousand people if you go out and you murder 10,000 of your own citizens, Does that make you a hero? So if for example Russia had to declare war on Lithuania and go and murder 10,000 lithuanians off Lyft urania consider that Russian a hero because so then if they say know that they wouldn't do something like that. Then one has to say to them, but what makes it okay to kill one segment of the population but not to kill another segment of the population. And the answer to that is it was a minority population that were being murdered that the country doesn't want. Most people like people just like themselves. The natural state of humans is not to enjoy diversity because different opinions different races different thought processes or challenging and most people don't like to be challenged. But if we don't teach Humanity that this is natural and normal xenophobia will continue. So talking about the Holocaust and teaching genocide prevention has to be an active program in order to prevent the next genocide off because the next genocide will happen unless we prevent it in advance. So I think in the future episodes we will talk about Holocaust Education here in the United States, maybe next week. We'll talk about the claims conference survey of Millennials and gen Z Americans. I think that'll be interesting. But let's let's go ahead and wrap up this conversation. I think we're almost up to the top of the hour. But can you just give a picture? We we've I think we've nicely honed in on least again. My my journey of just to reiterate I knew that six million Jews had been murdered by Nazis. I knew that you know Hitler was the ringleader. I did not know that there were collaborators to the extent that I mean, every occupation has has collaborators. I didn't understand that there were collaborators that murdered their name that helped the Nazis Exterminating attempt to exterminate the Jews and I did not know and I I was very shocked and Disturbed to find out that governments today in Europe are actively seeking to hide the truth of the Holocaust. So, can you just just as a final point that last point? Give us a picture of how pervasive is that phenomenon of a government in Europe attempting to hide its truth. And before you answer I do want to emphasize to this podcast is a podcast for a holocaust and genocide Justice. And so what I'd like to do in future podcasts is understand other genocides. I mean, we know that there are there are active attempts to I guess hide the truth about the Armenian Genocide to hide the truth of other genocides. I'd like to maybe we can bring on a guest who can help us understand how pervasive this is beyond Europe and Beyond to the Holocaust thought that would be very interesting to see how pervasive this is among governments among a current States but in Europe as it relates to the Holocaust at least how pervasive is this issue of birth? Trying to hide a countries Holocaust history. We say that Austria and Germany are doing well. Are there other countries besides Lithuania that are not doing so well, Ukraine? Okay, Hungary Poland has issues. Yeah. These cannot continue, you know the victims at a minimum deserve the truth and not for society's to heal. They need to know what the facts were. They need to know that somebody that is considered a hero today may not have been dead and they need to understand how easily all of this can happen again. If we cannot live peacefully among our neighbors our Humanity doesn't stand a chance to succeed in the future and if we don't tell the truth about what happened in the past History will absolutely repeat again, and we cannot allow that to happen. I agree with you. I agree with you and and I think one other note that I want to mention about about this podcast that you and I are doing is it's meant to be a active and engaging broadcast. So this is our first episode that we're doing together. So we we thank you. For those of you who are listening in the future. We will have calls to action right? I mean, I'm Grant just since you and I have have been involved working together on this issue. I think we've had pretty good success. The city of Beverly Hills has condemned Lithuania the city of West Hollywood and California has condemned Lithuania city of Los Angeles has you have been you and and wage, um, your colleagues Sylvia forty who has been on some of our other broadcasts has been honored by various City officials. So I want listeners to understand that we birth Are actively engaging leaders in the United States and so far as we can to raise awareness about this issue to help them understand that this is an ongoing issue. It's Advocate them and to do something about it. We have no choice Dylan for the future for the for our future societies. We have no choice agreed agreed. All right, so shall we call it a night off? Absolutely. Have a great evening. All right. Well, I want to thank thank you all for listening against this podcast. And this is a weekly podcast. So we'll be back next week likely, like I said, we'll probably hit on that claims conference will tell your deepest that data and take a look at that and talk about Holocaust Education in the United States. All right granted. Thank you, right. Thanks. Good. Good night.
NPR News: 08-07-2021 3AM ET
"This message comes from. npr sponsor. Xfinity fast reliable internet from xfinity can help people stay connected. Head to expand any dot com. Where you'll find plans to fit any budget with speeds up to a geic restrictions apply actual speeds are not guaranteed live from npr news. I'm nora raum. A statewide facemasks requirement is an effect in louisiana and now officials plan to require students to wear face coverings when they returned to class governor john bel edwards says. His state has a dubious distinction. We are at the leading edge of the surge case. Growth per capita in louisiana continues to be The highest in the country. We're the number one state. That's not a distinction. We wanna have the surgeon infections mainly from the delta variant is hitting the states with lower vaccination rates. The hardest new jersey will also require face masks in school when they reopened in a few weeks. Governor phil murphy said he issued the mandate after having left the decision to local districts. Ken burns with member station. Whyy reports murphy insists that his decision is not an about face but based on several factors the more transmissible delta variant children under twelve not able to get vaccinated and the large number of eligible people who remain unvaccinated. I wanna make it clear that as soon as conditions allow please god sooner the later we will lift this requirement again. This is not permanent but that wasn't good enough for dozens of people outside of the elementary school. Where murphy made his announcement they said. It should be up to parents as to whether their kids should mask up. The announcement comes amid surging. Cova cases fueled by the delta variant for npr news. I'm kenneth burns in east brunswick new jersey. The nearly four hundred thirty three thousand acre dixie fire in northern california is now the largest wildfire in the us npr's kirk siegler reports. It's also the nation's top priority fire as it continues to threaten neighborhoods and whole towns several hours north of sacramento. The forecast is a bit more favourable with winds dying down some fire. Managers say in the past twenty four hours. The dixie fire grew by extraordinary one hundred thousand acres. Sergio arianna is a spokesman for the fire response. That fire is very aggressive. The wind conditions are not helping fire. Ecologists sale lower intensity fire across this landscape is needed given the overgrown forests. But the dixie fire is being fueled by extreme drought and it's moving fast posing unnatural and dangerous conditions for firefighters and people in its path. Kirk siegler. Npr news sacramento. Texas governor. greg. Abbott is calling another special session of the state legislature today in another attempt to pass a law to overhaul voting procedures in texas more than fifty democratic lawmakers decamped to washington. Nearly a month ago to prevent vote is not clear whether they planned to return. Now they say the changes would make it more difficult to vote especially for minority voters. This is npr news. The united nations on voi- for afghanistan is urging the international community to demand the taliban stop attacks as peace talks remained stalled in the country. Deborah alliances is warning of a catastrophe in afghanistan as taliban fighters step up efforts to gain territory as american and nato troops withdrawn the prime ministers of estonia. Latvia and lithuania are calling for more political and logistical support from the european union to deal with the continued influx of migrants coming in from belarus teri schultz reports the baltic leaders blame president alexander lukashenko for enabling and encouraging the flow of people through his country. The three prime ministers call it hybrid attack by the lukashenko regime planeloads of people from iraq syria and other countries landing in minsk and helped by belarussian officials to get to the border with lithuania. Lithuanian government officials say more than four. Thousand people have entered the country illegally from belarus this year compared with eighty last year estonia latvia and lithuania say lukashenko is trying to weaponize migration to put political pressure on the eu. The blocks border agency has been working with lithuania but the three countries seem more support is needed. Their statement says the situation is rapidly deteriorating and that the e you should increase sanctions on the lukashenko regime for npr news. I'm teri schultz in brussels. A man with a knife attack commuters on a train in tokyo last night ten people were injured. The suspect reportedly told police. He wanted to kill because women looked happy. I'm nora raum npr news.
Historic new security deal for the Asia Pacific region
"Support for this show comes from one day. University bringing together the most popular professors from campuses across america. Now you can learn from these. Academic rockstars live in dc on september twenty sixth. Spend the day exploring topics like history music psychology and more no homework or tests just the enjoyment of lifelong learning from renowned professors tickets at one day university dot com. The world is brought to you by progressive. Are you thinking more about how to tighten up your budget. These days drivers who save by switching to progressive. Save over seven hundred dollars on average and customers can qualify for an average of six discounts. When they sign up a little off your rate each month goes a long way. Get a quote today. At progressive dot com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates national annual average insurance savings by new customers surveyed in twenty twenty. Potential savings will vary discounts very and are not available in all states and situations many international aid groups have closed doors and afghanistan. Those who remain are calling for swift action. Somebody say that it's on the brink of atrophy. It is a catastrophe. I'm carol hills. Canadian elections are on monday. Every major party has a climate plan. Thanks in part to this. Summer's heatwave and wildfires. I didn't really wear and ninety five. Through a pandemic. I was wearing in ninety five. It was not yellow acrid smoke. And there's a new milk option at a coffee shop in nairobi. We're trying to create the camel coffee scene here in kenya. And hopefully that can scale to the rest of the world. Although today we get the skinny on the new security pact that's anchored china and annoyed some key. Us allies to those stories and more ahead on the world. I'm carol hills. This is the world. President biden has reached a new security pact for the asia pacific region. He made the announcement in a joint. Virtual appearance with the prime ministers of australia. And the united kingdom law recognize the imperative of ensuring pieces stability indo pacific over the long term. The new security arrangement has a nickname august that short for australia. Uk and us august will bring together. Our sellers are scientists and our industries and maintain and expand our age and military capabilities and critical technologies such as cyber artificial intelligence quantum technologies and undersea domains biden and his counterparts from australia. And the uk never mentioned china by name but as the world's matthew bell reports they didn't have to australia's prime minister. Scott morrison said this new trilateral security partnership is aimed at bringing stability to a complex and vital region. The future of the pacific will impact all futures to make these challenges to help deliver the security and stability originates. We must now take ap cotton to a new level under the terms of this deal. Australia will join a small handful of nations that have nuclear powered submarines. The us will be sharing that technology only for the second time since nineteen fifty eight when it started doing so with britain. Nuclear powered subs are costly and complicated though and could be up to a decade before. Australia's navy actually puts one into the pacific. In the meantime this security pact sends a message to china the united states national security strategy and the biden administrations interim Security strategy have clearly identified. China is the primary threat to the united states. Zachary abuser is a professor at the naval war college. He says the security deal won't actually change military capabilities in the asia-pacific all that much especially in the short term because australia was already planning to upgrade. Its submarine fleet even before. This packed was announced but what it really does does. The anchors united states to asia pacific security. So is this. The long talked about american pivot to asia. Absolutely not experts say but it is a significant shift for australia whose economy is closely tied with china's because of that australian government has long sought to maintain good relations with china zachary abuses says in recent years. Beijing has taken an aggressive approach. China has launched an all out trade war against australia limiting the import of iron or wool. Red wine we've seen intense chinese political interference in australia. Really trying to influence the social media. They're much of the same thing that the russians do in the united states. The chinese to in australia. Beijing says the new aucas security pact seriously undermines regional peace and stability and intensifies the arms race and represents cold war thinking but the chinese government can't be all that surprised says taylor fruitful. He's the director of the security studies program at mit just happened ago. I think it would have been a much bigger deal. But i think the two countries that somebody's are in a standoff over what the terms of their future relationship should be both beijing and washington talk about the need to avoid an all out confrontation able says but neither appears willing to break the momentum to change the downward trajectory in the us china relationship for the world. I'm matthew bell. The new alliance isn't just bugging. China francis knows is also way out of joint former french ambassador to washington. Jehad alco tweeted last night. The world is a jungle. France has just been reminded of this bitter truth by the way the us and the uk have stabbed her in the back in australia. Are europe correspondent or barry has been following events from london and she joins us now. So are the french just mad that they weren't invited to the club. Well that will be part of est. But mainly it's because they've lost a huge contracts at with australia's base had signed. This deal with australia back. In two thousand sixteen to build submarines to build diesel submarines and it's reports have been worth around ninety billion dollars to france so nash an inconsiderable sum them obsessed with australia signing up to this alliance now. That deal is dead in the water and the french have been very vocal about the position today. The french foreign ministers. You'll literally hours on tv this morning. Civil war both also do the it w vika loose khalid in this is really thousand hundred. We built a relationship of trust with australia. And that trust is now betrayed. He's got a really really angry this and there's a lot of bitterness about this breach of contract and interestingly he went on to say at what also concerns them is the behavior of the americans what he described as this unilateral abrupt decision. He said this is something. Like mr trump would have done and the tv presenter adam if he felt he was being scammed by american by the americans and he said yes. Wow and i understand. France isn't just annoyed with the americans. And australians there also unhappy with britain's role in all this yeah you know as you pointed out. The former. French passenger accused both the us uk of stabbing france in the back and the british government is more than aware that the irritated the french even though today they have been at pains to play it all down. You had the british defense secretary. Ben wallace on tv this morning talking up the relationship between the two countries. We have no intention of doing anything to antagonize the french. The french are some about closest military allies in europe. We are a sizeable and comparible forces. And we do things together and then this afternoon. British prime minister. Boris johnson was in parliament saying the britain and france stand shoulder to shoulder together and the relationship between the two countries is rock solid but the reality of course is that took. The relationship between the two has been under considerable strain for some time at. We have continuing problems with Which is called food shortages and other issues on both sides of the channel Because of all the addition paperwork in the red tape involved et cetera so this is really exacerbated tensions between the two and obviously this latest alliance doesn't headmasters. What about the european union. I mean what is it's role in all this. I imagine it feels somewhat put out but it's not included. Indeed you leaders imagine are not too happy with this by the way. The timing couldn't be worse than some ways for the eu because today is was scheduled to lay out its own indo pacific strategy but also it must be pretty irritating for the eu the european partner the us decides to form an alliance with should be brexit britain. You know the one that's already left the union and of course the whole new aucas agreement has china very much in mind even though it it doesn't say that and today in britain there was a cabinet. Reshuffle underway and a new foreign secretary has been appointed. How's that likely to impact the uk's future relationship with china yet liz. Trust she's the new foreign secretary. Dominic robb is out of office and she has been quoted. The pastor saying the world needs to get tough on china so it will be interesting to see what happens. I mean boris johnson. I guess for his part has always tried to tried a fairly careful path with china but he has a number of very vocal. Mp's in the party who have been for a long time saying that. The uk needs to take a stronger line with china in particular in relation to human rights and by the way just yesterday we saw the chinese ambassador to the uk. Being told he was no longer welcome in parliament because of sanctions china has imposed on a number of. Mp's recently the world's orla berry in london. Thanks a lot orla. you're welcome car. The to south pacific territories of french polynesia and new caledonia have experienced a surge in corona virus cases lately until recently the island states had escaped the worst of the pandemic their french territories and the surge prompted paris last week to extend a health emergency declaration through mid november that allows france to control. The territories borders curfews and quarantine rules as actually westerman reports. The situation has tested the relationship between the territories and paris trying to reach dr john. Paul thrown over. The last week has been difficult. was always unable to talk because he was working when he did finally reach him. He was busy Ashley bussing about the makeshift hospital in the small town of pie on french. Polynesia's main of tahiti's tricking problem of bottle of oxygen thrown general practitioner with over four decades of experience paints a dire picture of the cova situation in french polynesia which has a population of some two hundred eighty thousand. Most of their nearly six hundred deaths throughout the whole pandemic have occurred in the last two months l. hell covered nine hundred cases. There have more than doubled since mid-july which thrown notes came on the heels of a trip by french president emmanuel macron. Back in june. I was sure that if we close the country everything will be alright. If we live the country often we would have the big big explosion so now we have a huge epitome was delta around. Says he's watching. Some eighty cove patients right now. Most of whom are elderly with the few hospitals in french polynesia practically full he cares for some patients outside of the hospital and some of them be telemedicine. French polynesia is after all a territory made up of one hundred eighteen islands and atolls spread across a swath of pacific the size of eastern europe and while perez has an aide many doctors and officials say. It's just not enough. We are still the oversea territory with the worst case of and here we all fall from receiving the same amount of aid than the french entails or guliani or ill other injuries. That's more time brotherston. He's a representative of french. Polynesia in the french parliament he says paris has only sent some one hundred twenty medical personnel there when they've sent hundreds so the french caribbean brotherston who caught covert last year says francis ignored his territories. Please for more nurses and doctors and more equipment like oxygen has a theory. Well to put it bluntly there are upcoming presidential elections for brazil mccone next year end. The potential voters is far greater in the french antilles any way neil then in french polynesia. Meanwhile he says confusing messages from paris about masks. Vaccines have fueled vaccine hesitancy and fake news. So defiance has set up though there is some vaccine hesitancy. Nearly forty percent of french polynesia's population have received vaccines all of which have come from france. Cr chevron is a press officer with francis ministry of the overseas he's every territory is different in martinique and guadeloupe. For example france is responsible for health services and you know the best civic duty theresa california and renisha where it's not our competence just this month new caledonia which lies nearly three thousand miles west of french. Polynesia went from having less than a hundred cases to over thirteen hundred cases the territory also has at least four deaths between the two bronze says. France has given over four hundred fifty thousand. Us dollars in state loans to help with the pandemic and economic rebound in french polynesia. Gibran says they're trying to balance the pandemic with the territory's tourism dependent economy. The borders be local authorities asked for and when we opened the borders and we saw that Creating we as local government to confined earlier but they decided to wait because they needed to have to raise the Gross still it's estimated the territory. Lawsom one point two billion dollars tourism revenue in twenty twenty for now health officials say french polynesia's kovic nineteen cases. Have plateaued by doctor. Jean-paul thrown predicts. Cases won't actually start to decline for another two or three weeks for the world. I'm ashley westerman. You're listening to the world. I'm carol hills. You're with the world. Pope francis wrapped up a four day visit to hungary and slovakia today during his trip the roman catholic pontiff warned against the dangers of closing borders and politicizing christianity in san martine is a reporter with crux an independent catholic news site. In as you've been following the pope's trip why did he visit hungary and slovakia. He visited hungary because he wanted to take bard on. What is the international Congress which is a big catholic given that takes place in different cities every two or three years and it has been happening for the past hundred fifty years. He was the first pope since trump all the second in the two thousand to take part and what he told us is that hungary was the door opening for him to go to slovak cat he told us journalists about wanting to just lock yes several times on the road and these was him finally fulfilling that promise. How was the pope received in both countries. Very well actually. I have to acknowledge olympic. Better than even what. I had expected particularly in hungary or there is this idea for conservative. Alice's sanity that clashes with the pope. How how're we so over. Henry thousand people attending the bass. Fep francis celebrated on sunday in budapest. He's message resonated with most of the people there. She was smart enough to focus on hughes. Actually there to do which is talk about that. Eucharist on tried to not politicize. The train bus might just possible. You mentioned the pope warning about politicizing christianity. What does he mean by that. What did he say about that. He was very specifically talking about the dangerous of politicizing. The cross Dangers of using data political element. Something that we have seen in europe quite often deflate with populist leader such as matteo sereni from italy and victory ban from hungary both of whom used to cross to justify their anti immigration anti moslem Something that francis is actually against off now. The pope also made headlines on this trip when he said that priests should not refuse to give communion to politicians who support abortion rights now. President biden devout catholic who supports abortion rights and some have argued that he should not be given communion. What exactly did pope francis say about this. Who a student actually come out and say that you would deny communion mckee gave a very enormous response to the matter of giving communion to people such as the us senate he flat out refused to talk specifically about the case of the united states but he did however acknowledged that he himself had never denied comedian to anyone he did again. It was very newest along response to a very specific question. He did say that abortion as murder and when it comes to catholic church teaching on this is very clear and it's not bound to change. He'll say however that when it comes to politicians abortion should be dealt in pastoral way meaning in private between the pastor and the person involved. It's not a matter of open. Discussion pope francis had surgery in july. How his health seemed to be holding up on this trip a lot better than we had all anticipate at. We were expecting to see him on tire still recovering. Because that's what he said not two weeks ago talking to a group of catholic businessman however we saw a man ready to keep going and most awfully not ready to slow down which was very very interesting. What has health issue been. He had a major calling surgery on july fourth had thirteen inches of thirty three centimetres off his intestines removed. And we know he's still on education and we know he's still doing physical therapy to recover from his surgery however again he soon in perfect house. I have to say unhealthier than i was at the end of the trip. You know son. Martine is a reporter with crux an independent catholic new site. She's been following. Pope francis travels through europe. Thanks a lot. thank you. The dairy aisle of supermarkets show how expansive our appetite has become for all kinds of milk. Full-fat no fat almond oat soy even hemp milk but in kenya. The next big thing is camel. Milk the world. Africa correspondent halima. Economy has the story the kulon cafe and they rubies. Eastleigh neighborhood is a popular spot. People come here for coffee tea and a mix of somali and continental food but when you look at the menu a few things stand out we have a camel. Milk based coffee drinks that we serve here similarly to how in other places of the world like in the us. There's a new trend. Oat milk coffee We're trying to create a camel. Coffee scene here in kenya. And hopefully that can scale to the rest of the world. Nats tommy is a twenty seven year old entrepreneur and one of the owners of the cafe. He spent most of his life in the united states but his family hills from somalia. Where like many pastoralist societies camel milk and camel meat for that matter are common fare. Camels is very iconic to the somali culture. So just being around the not soldier these traditional products that made me want to. I wanted to learn more about it when we're thami went into business. He wanted to experiment with camel products. And if he could help make them trendy at the cafe you can get camel. Meatballs camel keesa diaz and camel cappuccinos. Which i tried. It has a bit of a smokey taste to it. Were saami explains why the smoked because it provides a natural way to increase the shelf life of the milk so it changes his profile of the worse. Tommy says smoking camel. Milk is the old school way of doing things he knows that haste isn't for everyone so a few years ago. He created nuke a company that sells pasteurized camel milk and flavored camel yogurt. It's part of a bigger trend. Here in kenya. Says khalif abdurrachman abay. He has the kenya camel association. There's a lot of increase the demand of the commodore product and become a limit. Avi has been lobbying. On behalf of camel producers for years he estimates there are more than three million camels and kenya mostly in the north but it was only a decade ago that kenya officially designated the camel as a livestock animal now is pitching camel products as a sustainable option to come in the first place the an answer to climate change and the camel is It takes not like any other anymore. Their water intake the same with those show the pastor because competing with the cut off the sheep and goat is not competing arid parts of kenya often suffer with seasonal trout that can kill cattle and lead to famine but camels are resilient says abi. They can go up to fifteen days without water. He says for that reason. He's seeing more and more communities raising camels and in turn. Those communities are pitching the milk and meat as nutritious and healthy options for consumers. I visited grocery chain in nairobi. In the refrigerated section. I see countless options from multiple brands of camel milk. Don't want to have a rashid. A mother of two here evaluating options and ask her how she decides what to give her family To be honest for me. The most important thing is an attrition You know how much nutrient are they getting from the at that. They actually take in. She says her three-year-old daughter is allergic to cow milk. So she's been exploring alternatives. She heard camel. Milk is low and lactose and super nutritious. But she says there's one thing her kids can't get over but they've tried camera. Malcolm there Yes it's really really good it just that they can't stand the smell of it. That spot it. Even the past staff has a distinct smell and taste to it. I asked bashir. Wassaw may from kulon cafe how he plans to convince reluctant or first time customers especially when the domestic market here in kenya is his priority. So whatever is your drink of choice whether as a child or a caramel kyoto. I would just say at camel to that or as where tommy likes to say cam. Allies it for the world. I'm holly mcgee condie in nairobi. You're listening to the world pop star. Lord is singing in the maori language. Five songs from her latest album which was just released. Its earning her praise and criticism. Do we need the liberty a winner for a language to survive. Hear the music for yourself coming up on the. I'm carol hills you're listening to the world. A co production of gbh npr x. With the taliban in control of afghanistan international humanitarian groups are gingerly finding their footing only a few aid groups still have their doors open in kabul astronauts. Slayton heads one of those offices. She's the norwegian refugee council country director. And she's in kabul estrin. What's your situation. At the moment i mean. Are you able to go to your office getting your car and drive around town and meet with people or is that just not feasible right now. The situation is actually not bad. In fact it's back to where it were a few weeks before kabul foul meaning traffic still horrible and all the shops are open. Perhaps with an exception few beauty shops fashion shops and people are going about their business as usual in town however the mood is very somber because a lot of people are awesome themselves. You know what is life going to be like in this new afghanistan. People are allowed to take out only two hundred dollars from their bunk account. No matter how much they have on there and only once a week and the queues are like kilometer long. How about your afghan colleagues male or female. Do they feel safe coming to work. While all asking man anti mel stats are coming. Back to work in the office in kabul we may have a who are staying at home because their families are not comfortable but like ninety eight percent are back in the office and we have reopened our field officers in the kabul informal settlements. Meaning where all the it piece are living in the outskirts of the city and are internally displaced persons. We have been able to real ben schools in some areas and there are still areas where taliban is not allowing our female staff to resume work. I'm without our female staff. He refused to open officers. Refused to resume activities. We've heard that. The offices of some international ngos have been broken into and trash and their supplies stolen. How concerned are you about that. Well that is very concerning. However is reassuring the ngo community that these are criminal elements and that they are in process of getting their functions in place. The taliban police are even saying to us that even for them this quick takeover was a surprise that we're expecting a more. Orderly handover so they have needed a few weeks to get sorted things out yesterday. The chief of the taliban police told ngos he was meeting. Got even have repossessed. Some vehicles that criminal elements had stolen and that they realize belong to ngos and they have ngos that missing of equal. Call this number and we will sort it out and return the only two year. So there's mixed messages. You mentioned taliban police. Do you and your staffers interact with taliban officials and footsoldiers on a daily basis. We see the foot soldiers at driving through town. Yes i do drive through town. And i go to and from the office and even go to see locations in kabul where we have services for internally displaced people but yesterday we had a meeting with the chief of the taliban police and the message was we wanted to look after you. We want to make sure your says. Tell us what you need. We want ngos to feed safety. Want to stay under. Never what is the level of need in afghanistan right now and what is able to be met by the few groups that are still on the ground there first of all. I believe that most of the ngos who left will soon return the un has its airbridge up and running and unexpecting a lot of Ngos resuming work in the weeks to come but the needs are staggering. It is a catastrophe. Somebody say that it's on the brink of catastrophe we are full head into it. More than one. Million children are at risk of dying. This winter from starvation eighteen million people are in need of humanitarian assistance. Veep public sector is about to collapse. Who will pay the salaries four public teachers or health workers in clinics and hospitals. These are questions that needs to be answered may needs to be answered fast. The situation is dire enough going afghanistan. What are the most dire needs in terms of humanitarian relief for afghanistan. Right now even now. Money doesn't help because the market is dwindling due to the famine crops. I mean forty percent of the crops is failing due to the drugs. There's not enough food in country needs to come either by airplanes or by land from neighboring countries. If food does not reach afghanistan people are going to stop to desk and in high numbers. In addition in a couple of months the winter will come and their minds degrees in kabul on in the northern part of the country people need shelter. people need blankets. People need winter clothes to themselves and to their children. They need firewood. They need wintry station assistance and they needed before the winter comes astroid. You described the situation in afghanistan as dire. What's an image that kind of lives with you in terms of what the dire situation really looks like every time the snow comes in november december. I travelled out to the cobble informal settlements. Because i then see children running around barefoot or in plastic slippers in slush in frozen water and snow. People are living under a tarpaulin or with makeshift walls made of cloth etcetera. And it's a good reminder for me why. I'm in this line of work and why i continue to work in afghanistan despite the somewhat cumbersome situation i was gonna ask why are you staying put in kabul. It's my duty. It's my job. I was actually out of the country when kabul fell on. I managed to get back on. I have no intention of leaving. The askins behind afghanistan needs says more than ever astronauts. Slayton is in kabul. She's the country director for the norwegian refugee council. Thank you very much for speaking with us. Thank you the small baltic nation. Lithuania doesn't usually receive many asylum seekers last year. Barely one hundred crossover over the country's eastern border to apply for asylum this summer more than four thousand have arrived. European leaders blamed neighboring belarus for orchestrating a refugee crisis in revenge for the eu slapping sanctions on the authoritarian leadership of russian. President alexander lukashenko but as andrew connolly reports from the lithuanian. Bela russian border. The reality is more complex. Little village of vedeno is in southeast into through ania. Close to the border with belarus on a basketball court in school building for us. There's up at the hoops company but us says he didn't come here to play basketball. He came to escape somalia for us for me. I used to use smarter in some idea but they are in my country. What unites limiters did go into the nfl that teaching language so they had the tell you that you got into the museum christianity. The only thing that they want to do their so once they had that they started to find me before they find me for us hoping to be granted status as a refugee here in the european union but the lithuanian government sees him as a political porn because he entered the country from neighboring belarus the belarusian dictator alexander lukashenko has threatened to flood the eu with migrants and asylum-seekers because elsa amazingly they arriving with commotion air flights with the tourism terrific visas later. They paying some some few hundreds of euros or dollars to smugglers sunday transporting them to the borders are notice ever marriages is the vice. Interior minister of the waimea. He says better reasons orchestrating refugee crisis in his country. The government there he says is promoting entry to the eu through belarusian travel agencies and smugglers. They coming they crossing the border day. Losing all the identification documents and russian guards said directing them facilitating showing worse and protect parts of lithuanian border. And there's many video evidence video footage is when they saw accompanying them to the borders. Several thousand migrants now being detained near the border with belarus. My request for access to one of those counts was denied and this may be the reason. Why video shelters of military facility. Where hundreds of single men asylum-seekers protesting that detention reports in these camps in the wailua say conditions there oblique and violence is broken out back. Can then you at the former school building where migrants living the atmosphere is calm. And where whereas everybody's gone here of The we have Calmly unia eric smiley. Cameroon mixed different countries here by all africa. Thousands of people sleep on beds crammed into classrooms among. Mehari is a sixteen year old boy. Who says he's fled military conscription in eritrea. He tells me the lack of information. Authorities here is frustrating. You see us. Everyone cannot go out. You cannot see. We just ask for a freedom and we didn't have the answer. What will happen to us. What's our feature roy. We are seeking here at this place. Asylum-seekers here also told me that a recent visit by a luthuania and member of parliament just made things worse off. The parliamentarian can be heard angrily venting at some of the men being for you. You have dangerous yet but the well of sympathy has not run dry in thuwaini ena ever chiller is a project manager for the catholic aid organisation caritas in a storeroom next to an imposing white church near the belorussian border. She sought through piles of banks of full of donated clothes of my country. Really sometimes i want to ask some questions because you know for us for three million is. It's not difficult to take about. Four thousand it's one school not not not not once. Maybe just you what's happened. The lithuanian government has announced. It will complete the wire fence on. Its border with belarus. Next year laws have been passed to allow mass detention rapid processing asylum and claims an expedited deportation agreements. Meanwhile for the young guy from somalia is far from shore. What comes next for him. When i asked him about the political spat between the three new in belarus. And how he feels caught in the middle is what he tells me. He's come to this building because they say these people are being used by others. We have not yet can from on from there and this was the only way to so. I don't know the government boost. I don't know if this sometimes we the news like government is easy. Become very very stressful. Because that's not the reality oro says. He simply saw new opportunities to reach europe at a moment when boorda's becoming more and more closed and now his reality is being caught up in the limbo of europe's ongoing migration dilemma for the world. I'm andrew connolly from the border with belarus canadians. Go to the polls on monday. The election was called by prime minister. Justin trudeau in a bid to regain a governing majority for the first time all major parties have presented serious plans to address climate change but their platforms reflect the difficulty of drawing down carbon intensive activities in the oil producing nation. Emma jacobs has our story for montreal and mccaig is a retiree living in ashcroft british columbia and unprecedented heatwave in june turn the spruce trees in her yard brown and had her seeking refuge in the basement then came the wildfires like we were surrounded all four sides by fires about an hour from her lytton british columbia where she used to live and work as a teacher broke canada's all time heat record three days in a row reaching one hundred and twenty one degrees on the fourth day lytton burned to the ground really wear end ninety five throughout the pandemic. I was wearing in ninety five karen ashcroft because it was not yellow acrid smoke. I couldn't see one hundred feet ahead of me. Mccague has been volunteering for local green party candidates for few years but experts say extreme weather events have made climate policy a top priority for more canadian voters. I think the tension has grown polling is showing that climate is one of three. Maybe four top of mind issues for canadians. Kathryn harrison is a professor of political science at the university of british columbia focused on environmental policy. Canada's green party hasn't got a lot of support but harrison says all the major political parties have proposed relatively embellishing climate policies for the first time this election cycle even the conservative party which draws a lot of support from oil producing provinces the conservatives have included some real policy more regulation but. I'm very skeptical. That they would follow through with the level of ambition that it would take to meet their own target. The conservatives proposal is to cut emissions thirty percent by twenty thirty which isn't enough to me candidates commitments under the un climate accord. Proposals from the other. Major parties would get their prime minister. Justin trudeau's liberal party has set a target of forty plus percent. The new democrats smaller party target fifty percent the greens sixty percent climate advocate. Seth klein would like to see more ambition but says the range of plans do show progress. This debate has shifted to the point. That every major party feels they need to present a platform that they hope people will find. Credible chain will be hard practically and politically for any party. Canada's oil and gas actor has made up about five percent of gdp in recent years it's energy intensive work just production not the burning of the fuel represents a quarter of canada's carbon emissions on the campaign trail this month. Prime minister trudeau talked about investing in helping oil dependent regions transition. We will continue to work with workers across the country in the construction sector in the energy industry to transition to pivot to to improve the opportunities for them in their workplaces but also for their kids in their communities. Still in the same remarks. True talked about the oil industry like it's going to be around at least until twenty fifty even note. That's when the paris agreement dictates global emissions need to be brought down to net zero supporters of canada's oil industry. Argue that while oil demand continues better. The last barrels come from canada which tries to limit emissions from production than somewhere else. Trudeau's government argues. The proceeds will fund canada's own clean energy transition again environmental policy professor kathryn harrison standing line That the liberals have used. I think it is becoming more difficult to say. Because global ambitions increasing and because canada zone ambitions increasing ambition will have to transcend any political party for canada to reach targets set for dates. Twenty thirty or twenty fifty. Because it's unlikely one politician or even one party will remain in charge that entire time for the world. I'm jacobs in montreal. God spawned pop popstar. Lord's new album. Solar power dropped a few weeks ago but now the new zealand singer has released some extra tracks. She's taken five songs from the album and translated them into maori. the indigenous language of new zealand. The released comes during maori-language week. Lord who is not married is receiving a wide range of reactions from the indigenous community. The world's bianca hillier reports hemi kelly was part of the team of maori people. Lord consulted for the project. He teaches the maori language at the auckland. University of technology and says the new songs are more of a rendition of the originals rather than a direct translation and solo. Paolo one of the lines is like unluck of jesus on come on you now follows the translate that let's lands into the it just wouldn't have the same meaning or fit but something like wildlife. He didn't wanna who's the ocean made them. The first thing kelly says he did was sit down with lord to get to know her and her attentions on the bushes in this whole movement. Is that the language be normalized. So that it sets alongside english here in all dead when resilient enough society in given the same recognition and the intentions of nolan aligned with those. That's the ep was created and guided by some of the most well-known maori leaders and all proceeds will go to organizations working to preserve new zealand's indigenous wildlife and history. These collaborations are important to era. Cape up a maori communication specialists roya. Although mongols seem a big thing she is a really big thing because sometimes shoes hip during the lack of consultation site to hear l. nights of time will cost too much wanna audience zealand. Huge language. kepa says the album leaves them feeling proud. His favorite song is the path translated to tr. tikka though many listeners won't understand the maori kepa hopes. The songs are an introduction to the language. You've been simple. Greetings jota jota means good bye janey and acquire molly but iran needs a starting point but for many people. Lord singing in their language has brought up painful. History removal of the muddy language was used by colonizers too much allies isolate a brace disenfranchise mouthing from being mony kerry dell is in rural toria on new zealand's eastern coast. She researches the economic development of mary and other indigenous communities so whenever the body language as a topic as a school one because of the pain has been associated with strategic removal by the colonizers over indigenous communities. When del heard lords album she says she personally didn't feel much because she doesn't look to people like lord to engage in her maori identity. She turns to people like her mom. Henna to dell a former teacher who grew up during a time when the language was even less accepted than it is now for her part henna to dell hopes lord songs rise to the top of the charts anything that pushes language to another level. It's people's it allows discussion and with It's good to national badness it doesn't matter it's being discussed carried. Del agrees with her mom. Lords album will bring massive awareness to the language But she's not sure how much that awareness is actually needed. That's what i'm trying to endure a guy do. We made celebrity awareness for a language of at the stage. I believe this. Revitalization efforts have been ongoing for decades today only twenty percent of the maori population and three percent of all. Kiwis can speak it. According to a recent statement from the maori party my a week calling from waikiki island says the language continues to face an uphill and often racist battle as an indigenous person. She sometimes feels defensive. When non-maori celebrities insert themselves into the conversation. Because i see that this person in a privileged position will come and engage in our culture and then leave weeks stressed that she hopes lord will continue to stand with maori communities as they fight. Systemic racism across the board don't lit up a one time thing lit the start a journey stand with us. Uplift us listen to us. Because as an indigenous person it's painful going through the continued colonization. Curiel echoes this and says supporting. Mary communities has to go beyond supporting the language from her point of view. Lord singing and maori is not the main issue. The issue is yell. Occasion of limited resources limited energy or the expertise going in the direction of non mountain. As this conversation has unfolded online many people have been highlighting their own favourite maori musicians to dial generously gave me a private concert of a maori song. Yang she says the lyrics talk about cleansing. Your thoughts and body daughter kerry fondly added this the real modern pop song for the world. I'm being hillier joking aside. Let's end today. Show with a real maori pop song that came out earlier this month. horror which means east coast moon. It's a duet between two of today's biggest contemporary maori. Singers award winning musician o. Wipeout singing here with maisey. Rika a mom new maori pop song closes our show. Today you can listen to more new music on our spotify playlist including other global hits from artists we featured on the show. You can find a link to it on our twitter feed. We are at the world. The world comes to you from the nanan and bill harris studio at gbh in boston. I'm carol hills back with you tomorrow.
Parent Teacher Conferences
"The crisis in ethiopia continues to escalate members of the un human rights council such as iran and venezuela s. The united states to stop with this human rights violations violence breaks out in the ivory coast over recent election and azerbaijan and armenia signed a peace. Deal this is the world at large and we are politics one thousand and one hello and welcome to another episode of the world at large your place for international news If you're listening to this you probably enjoy news and caught cass. So i do believe you should leave a five star review and maybe even friendlier paragraph. isn't that right josh. Yes definitely and of course share and tell all your friends because when you guys leave reviews and you make grow than it makes us so happiest but we need to earn that. So why don't we just jump into the news right now so we have a little bit of a crisis in the horn of africa. Which if you don't know it's countries like eritrea. Djibouti ethiopia and somalia. They're all they're they're all having fun however ethiopia have a little bit less fun because a lot of analysts say oh might be on the verge of civil war so let's look at that what let's see why the opium might be at the situation. So the situation and unity between the gray and people of ethiopia and the central government run by the aroma has been experiencing study deteriorate deterioration especially in the last month so although the relationship has always been relatively unstable the government and the capital of a disabled has been keeping a close eye on their counterparts in the north. So let's breakdown some of this vocab real quick seal it. So what are the terrain people to grain people are. That's a good question. It's a good question. So now they are people that are in the north of ethiopia. They are about six percent of the population. So they're not that big but they're certainly sizeable chunk and they exist in the province in the north. It's right on the border with trae and they're not very happy right. I feel like ethiopia's kind of infringing on their rights as a province in as a people they want their. They want their ability to do what they want such as holding elections for example. And it just so happens that there wasn't election time it was election season in tigray and ethiopia ethiopia. The central government. Said no no no. Listen tigrayan people. I know you want. I know you have elections. I want you to want to have elections. I understand but in in. This is really important to you right. There was a virus. So you're not going to be holding these elections you understand and the two grand paypal said i definitely do not understand. In fact i'm going to go and hold elections right now now that you've said that into the legal so they went on and they held some elections. And what did the central government ethiopia say. Oh they said why did you do that. you are in a lot of trouble Mr green people you have violated on. You've crossed the line and we are going to make sure that you learn your lesson so you have absolutely no right and this is not the first time you guys do not respect us users jealous because of our past histories and we're gonna get into in a minute and you guys are just overall very disrespectful. You're going to hold elections now that that that's that's it well. I know what. I'm being rebellious and really wanna rebel against my parents or something. I just i just hold elections. I is really gets on your right there and it really gets under their skin. Classic rebellious teenager move. Yeah the people are in fact. The emblem of a raliess teenager so again. Despite this order from the capital not to hold the election coronavirus concerns the tigray in the tigray people's liberation front which is also known as the teepee aleph which runs area of the game anyways and when the government said that's a legal day were kind of mad and especially when the parliament. The parliament itself declared the elections legal. So not just the prime minister who they don't like but also the parliament so i'll be off. Mid the prime minister of ethiopia said this on twitter in response to the anger and open resistance from tigray and quote criminal elements cannot escape the rule of law under the guise of seeking reconciliation in a call for dialogue. our operation aims to end the impunity. That has prevailed for far too long and hold accountable individuals and groups under the laws of the land and quote some essentially. What he saying. This was on twitter. He got about thousand likes so. It's pretty legit. The people were like we stand with rock mod who love you and so That's comments section on twitter. I was reading In anyways he he got. He got a lot of support. This is quite a popular thing to say in if you live in the capital if you live in lands around there if you're in a romo majority ethnic group hopes however if you are a gray in person it's not as popular So what he saying is you're gonna have to follow the law. You're not some special people can just do whatever you want. I know you're a minority. I know you're percent but listen it's not talking fly here. I'm in charge. I'm the prime minister. I know you guys used to rule the country but not anymore And yes they did. In fact rule the country which again we will talk about the history of this But both sides decided that we're going to threaten each other so both of them threaten each other with military action and on friday ethiopia. The central government carried out airstrikes over to territory as a means of limiting the The region's access to like radars and missile stockpiles. Anything else that they could use to resist the actual i'll just up above and so Mr achmad the prime minister also ordered that all phone lines not great as well as internet be cut Which is where the swirl. The human rights groups have decided to speak in amnesty international. Denounced this they said why couldn internet service. That has nothing to do with it. There's expected to be hundreds if not thousands of of refugees fleeing to sudan so overall not the best situation People are concerned that look the people that are stuck in the middle of this government conflict. Who live in tigray are the ones who are going to be feeling the brunt of the things like internet being cut out in an actual war that airstrikes that are going on so abi aad mid actually won a nobel peace prize for ending the conflict with neighboring eritrea when he took power but this region as a whole as a new challenge and he even declared a six month state of emergency in the region to restore what he deems to be on order however that she grinned people do not see that as law and order in fact they see it as the opposite. They think that they're fighting for their sovereignty. They think they're fighting for justice and they just just in general they want they want to be back in power. So what do i mean by this. What do i mean by. What do i mean by them. Being back in power well. That's a great question. He in fact you're just on top of it today because this is a really important question. So that ukraine people since nineteen ninety-one. One as i said they are six percent of the population. The houston rule the country. What they did is they did this thing. Where we're not the manure we're not the majority But we have a parliament right. We have a parliament and all seats. So we're gonna take every minority we're gonna band together squish onto one group again super majority in the parliament and so that was led by the to grain people. Six percent is still a lot for a minority. So that's what they did. They form this giant coalition and they ruled the country. however in two thousand fifteen They kind of got kicked out of power and this is where the aroma which is said earlier the majority ethnic group in the countries like the biggest ethnic group in the country. They took power there. Coalition took over and they dissolved the coalition of the tigray and so This so a lot of people are saying how they're kind of late to grind. People are a little bit jealous. They're a little bit mad. They they had to go back in a retreat back to tigray and they no longer had control over the capital. And so i'll be off mid however again the prime minister he didn't actually take over till twenty eighteen. The actual romo took over twenty fifteen. But i'll be off mid promised reforms for the people and he's accused of grain minority of purposely resisting. His reforms out of spite for being kicked from power. And so abi. My boy obvious as announced the mobilization of thousands of troops. He's ready. he's he's he's He's quite angry because the terrain seized a federal military base in the city of mackay mckelway at the tap. The capital of tigray. Because you know every every province has like a federal military base for the troops go. They monitor the province right well. The to grain people sees that that did not make the federal government happy. I couldn't think as to why would make them unhappy. But let's just say did And so although it is not clear if there will be one analysts will often agree slash argue that there will in fact be a civil war. Is that going to happen. Let's hope not but the conflict is certainly very high. Tensions are there and that's geopolitics in a nutshell. Gays is power again. Power and money. As i've said before and i will say every episode. That is the reason that people fight And now it seems obvious. But it's all about power this money and money and sometimes oil which usually relates to money anyways so anyways we're going to go over to the united nations so the united nations human rights council decided. We're going to have a meeting. We're going to do this thing where we all get together. And we're gonna talk about the united states in their human rights So what this is. This is not uncommon. It sounds we. Are we talking about the us human rights. They actually do this with every single country. I believe it's you know it's it is called the. Up are universal periodic review Gets every few years when the all the members get together and they just look at your human rights every single conflict parent teacher conferences. Yeah with every country just they send a delegation. They sit there and everyone goes up in talks about your human rights. So if you're the if you are in fact the delegation from malawi than you are going to. You're going to be there in every country is gonna talk about how you can improve on your human rights. Yes however this is not malawi in fact this is the united states. And let me just tell you. The your enemies of the united states had a field day with this. So at the human rights council meeting the nations of iran china north korea russia and venezuela and cuba all slam the united states as an abuser of human rights states and so the chinese government said specifically that the united states needs to address the systemic racism embedded into its society So the united states government. Again this is their main response to all of this is what are you talking about You are much worse at this. And the united states went point out like the Contested labor camps in western china in the shung province with the workers and they said That looks like more systemic racism to me than anything going on here because the chinese government cited the george floyd case which everyone knows In which you know the the the police officer put a neck on the on On his knee on the dudes george floyd's neck and this was looked at by a lot of countries in people as democrats In us society and the chinese government said this systemic. Real systemically racist. If i do say so myself so you need to stop the united states. You need a cut that out. So north korea they got north korea also had something to say in fact they said this in a statement an quote we are concerned by the us as human rights violations and and quote so again the united states it pretty similar response saying i actually think you have more human rights. We're gonna get to exactly what. Mike pompeo the secretary of state said because he you know he kinda thought it was a joke. Actually look if you guys if look if you think. I'm not saying that. United states does not commit human rights violations in comparison north korea. That is up for you to decide. I am just stating the facts you But another fact is that syria decided also get involved. It seemed that will. Ns walea and they urged the united states to stop interfering in the internal affairs of other nations syria and venezuela. Both kind of thing where. The united states is really involved in their politics. Us has troops in syria not to the liking of the charlotte. Saad the president of syria. He's not a big fan of having american troops in his country in venezuela they do see that the united states backs one guido the opposition leader in there the biggest backer of hong guida and that is where the of finds a threat because he go to kinda wants to take over the government. So the so the syrian venezuela are saying. Look you guys are interfering in our affairs and not needs to stop stop using the pretext of human rights as a as a justification for his actions. You cannot say that venezuela committing human rights. That is absolutely ridiculous. You have no right to say that human rights violations. Who's you by interfering in our affairs or actually doing more damage than good america. So we have that but we also have cuba. 'cause cuba also decided that they are going to be very angry at the united states so as well as all the previously stated nations by the way they demanded that the us lift all sanctions on developing nations saying it hurts them economically two time when they're struggling so Cuba this kind of retains to cuba. Because they haven't embargo on and they wanna lifted. They don't like these sanctions hard to import stuff. Everything's expensive it's it's not it's it's it's just hard man. It's hard being cuba. And so They're asking the united states to lift it also again citing human rights concerns So this was not taken very well by the. Us government again. They thought that he thought this was ridiculous. They said all eu countries are much worse. The human rights and we are so. Stop saying that Again this is called the universal periodic review every country gets one of these every few years The other country that tends to really get slammed by this. The state of israel israeli usa. Just get slammed all the time in stuff like this So that that is what you're seeing. I believe by the way he was pakistan. Just became the newest member of the human rights council at the board so good for his becca stand. I can jobless relations I was like i read online. I'm like that's cool. I didn't write it But it's interesting so anyways. Us secretary of state. Mike pompeo rejected this advice. Seeing that all the countries listed above commit more human rights abuses in the united states and what he said this specifically and quote brutal regimes shouting the loudest above our record have the most to hide about their abysmal records and quote so he just fired back. He said you are shouting to cover up the atrocities. You commit you china. I seen those videos. I saw the drone footage. Do not lie to me. Do not tell me about my stomach. Racism you understand china. I'm going to get the bell off my waist right now. i'm going to slap you. If you keep telling me that i am committing human rights abuses. mike pompeo's defiantly the parent that teachers fear. He's they cancel his meeting. Your child's doing just fine. Mike pompeo scary belt out and twenty eight team so twenty eighteen. The united states left the human rights council. They said we're out we're done. This is so anti american. This oh anti israel and that's what the trump administration used as a justification for leaving it. They said it was an inherent quality of it in. That was just very bad to them and it wasn't worth being there however they did send a delegation to This specific universal periodic. Because you got you got to hear what the other countries have to say. Let's just say. The united states did not receive very warm feedback. Some other themes of it were like. Oh you're immigrations bat you're putting people in cages You're you're border policy. it's awful. It's abysmal you know. You need to work on that But the top priority for. You is your systemic racism. And you're just awful awful and you're you're sanctioning developing countries in europe Like interfering in their internal affairs. You're just being really annoying. United states go home. So that's what happened Quite an interesting story indeed. Yeah i think so. But let's see what else is interesting because there's a lot of stuff that's interesting interesting john ivory coast or or its more fancy name. The quota two of law d'ivoire. I don't know if i'm pronouncing the right but anyway gather i. I've seen them interchangeable young. Assuming that's how it's used But they recently held a presidential election So we all know. We all know how presidential elections and elections general tend to go in this part of the world. And let's just say did not go very Louis specifically president asante utera the incumbent one over ninety percent of the vote ninety four percent of the vote which is a sweeping victory right. He's actually he's actually quite popular. It's most people say. Yeah definitely one that type of oh. So what's the problem while the problem is It's he's running for a third term and there's a two-term limit And he's accepting the position and this is just angering the opposition or saying you cannot go into third term. It says right here in the law you cannot do. That and he retires has no no no. I am a president for all the people. Every single ivory coast person of ivory coast. I will be there for them. I am the president and yeah you. You can't really get rid of me. I i'm just here and so stay so riots broke out between many ethnic groups in the country was some people getting hurt or killed according to the police Will the police said this regarding to the mood of the country in which after they crack down on the violence and he said and quote. The situation is calm now Reinforcements are coming in. They are patrolling the area in. He also went on to confirm that three people have died with twenty six wounded So again the. What i said earlier important is that many ethnic groups are fighting A lot of these countries in africa run around like different ethnic groups right and they each they try to control the of the country. The most famously. If for example. I just mentioned the realm of gray and people this country. It's pretty similar. Wanda the famous famous rwanda right that to see so. Yeah so i mean. Ethnic peoples in general tend to have your abolished like they abolish the ethnic differences in the ninety s after the genocide. But it is still. It's it is but it's still quite common in africa for countries to be run based on ethnicity. It's it's very important for in terms of your social class. And so the anyways. The opposition cottage far when called upon by the high commissioner for human rights to refer was told to refer to dialogue over violence And so the opposition said. Well yeah but. I don't want violence. But he's he's he's breaking the law rightly i want. I it's our turn. We want to be in power now. Who tara he's been there for two terms. We sucked it up both times. We don't like him get him out of here and so they said an cook. Yes to dialogue but the rule of law must be respected and cooked So quite noble and so Although tar was he was originalist who his credit he was originally planning to step down but this changed after the person who was supposed to succeed him died So he had a successor planned out. Which again guys successor. In a democracy i feel like they don't add up but But anyways i i didn't realize you choose your successor. maybe that's maybe that's something that happens in cultivar but yeah interesting think. It's more common parliamentary systems. Well he's a president though now. Right prime ministers chosen by the parliament. I thought but anyways Experts in our free coast politics. I look but i'm assuming what he means. Vote for this guy. When i leave him he has a lot of influence. So he's able to do that but yes so he originally did have a successor in then. Yeah he died and so he's like you know what i wanna step down. I do i look. I was planning on stepping down by. He died so no one's prepared to run the country. So i i if you guys insist i suggest around the country another term if you if look if if it has to be a few more times after that high will i'll do it for the good of the countries and The opposition was very mad Although the opposition's candidate is is eighty six so he's quite old So i but you might. You might run into a similar situation to to the guys original successor. If you put someone that old inside of there i mean. That's that is an argument used by the side. That's currently in power But both of them are quite old. The old is like seventy four. So they're they're both up there but Certainly certainly interesting situation in the irony of this. Is that good bogged. Oh no colon. Gabba gabba vo. Who was the president in two thousand ten. Before tar came into power he actually ran on a very similar situation to atar it which he refused to give up his power in utara as the one that got france involved in they sent in the military and they literally got bogged out of power. They forced him out. So we definitely lettera is pretty similar situation right interesting. So he's the one wanting to give up power now so how turntables. Yeah so we'll see how that plays out. But in the meantime we're gonna talk about nuclear power plants in belarus this just my favorite subjects and so a new nuclear power plant. If you guys didn't hear while i'm with funds from the russian government was opened inside of belarus and it was announced on saturday but only a day after opening. It stopped working. So that's quite unfortunate when you spend a lot of money. Invest a lot of people labor and all that and then it breaks after pair all morning for an excellent show. Then your computer doesn't work. It's like a situation like that. I i look and if that's happening to you i i feel it seems really bad but Comparing the computer situation to the belarus belarusian power plant definitely see the similarities and that it's really annoying Invested all this stuff into the power plant and just stopped working so what wasn't working well. According to belarusian officials a lot of the electrical equipment on the plant broke down in retired Broke down in required replacement right so after day they acquire replacement. It's stop producing electricity so it was pretty much useless. And so we got oleg sobolev. Who's the radiation safety department He's employees from the radiation safety department. He said this. In a statement and quote turbines stopped. There is no electricity generation at the nuclear power plant. But this does not affect nuclear and radiation safety so this was in response to the lithuanian government which expressed fears of nuclear fallout in fact the government has expressed opposition to the plant before construction even began since the plant happens to be about twenty five miles or forty kilometers from the capital city. Villainous is lithuania. They don't feel comfortable with a nuclear power. Plant twenty five miles from their capital. They simply not working. Yeah yeah they're like a broke after a day are you sure. Are you sure this is something that we should be doing. Like i i. I don't feel comfortable. It's a little bit close to my capital or like everyone in our country living. So i i just. I don't need that in so lithuania. They cut all trinity imports from belarus. Wants the plant started producing electricity because they just had so much opposition to this. They're like no no where you're going to make a nuclear power plant. You're not. We're not buying your electricity in belarus. Lithuania is with you and so That certainly doesn't make belarus happy but again they're saying that the powerplant will now be up and running around twenty twenty two so i i. I don't really. That's not good news for people working on that nuclear power play said max of twenty twenty two so i feel like they might be able to finish before that It's a few parts right but right just a few easy say word. Nuclear power could get those defoe. I look the belarusian government went actually express how much of it needed to be replaced. They just said electrical parts broke down. Those are official statement so If it is the entire plant that just broke can take a while. They should call apple support which you can talk to the robot but anyways Our last story of the day if you guys did not here is. There is a peace deal between armenian bourgeoisie. So that's very interesting. Let's talk about that. A little bit Because it was not a good day for armenia. They were not very happy with the deal quite angry. Actually let's see why so this deal which originally moderated by russia who bragged saying oh. The united states couldn't ever shared this deal. Germans the french but we know she did it so better than the united states at negotiating deals in the caucasus. Not realize exactly what they said but they did say that they are better at it than united states and so they had to and so russia moderated it and we'll be sending troops to lake impasse which controls the path between stepanakert which is the capital of the disputed region of nagorno-karabakh and mainland armenia. And if you guys don't know nagorno-karabakh again for brief summary. It is a region inside of that is recognized by the united nations but as a part of john but it's armenia majority in armenia recognizes nagorno-karabakh as and not other bijon says this has been our land historically it just because the united nations gave it to them does not mean. It's actually there's an. So that's why i mean is coming from right and so the armenian prime minister Well okay so first of all the lake impasse again controls. The path essentially the path between the capital nagorno-karabakh in armenia which is important to note because they're no longer in actually control that instead it's going to be russia which is not good for them in terms communication purposes and so the armenian prime minister in a culpa chagnon called this peace deal quote terrible but according to the leader in nagorno-karabakh are harder to neon He said that if had the fighting continued and it was going to continue right there. No peace deal. He said had it continued. The entire region would have fallen to oshawa johnny forces within a few days so the peacedale was best saying. Look this sucks. I know. But i don't wanna lose everything i mean there's still we still have a most nagorno-karabakh people we have. But this peacedale was not good for media it. Entailed specifically army handing over much control of the region giving to peace forces led by russia so much of the so much of the land that was in control nagorno-karabakh even after the war is now going to be controlled by russia. A neutral zone in which russia will moderate trade and Prisoner exchanges and Just keeping the pass open for everyone. Furthermore it's going to have to cede land author johnson. Azerbaijan captured a few a lot of large amounts of areas nagorno-karabakh and there are meaningless. Quite literally going to have to give them that land so if you thought that in the twenty first century we use lands that you took landed and you annexed them into your empire. Say i thought. I'll border from defined but pretty interesting to see that it's not and so armenia is not only doing that but they're also to pull back troops from key positions along the newly established borders third after paul back from the border that was newly established wish even moorland. They're gonna have to lose eventually so it's not good for them but again they're gonna lose all nagorno-karabakh in the prime minister was pressured to make peace by the military saying we. We can't do this. We can't do this. You're going to have to make peace we. I don't know what to say because the entrepreneur army was better armed than the armenian one. They were backed by turkey. They had syrian mercenaries The lot more financial support so they certainly had the advantage in that case so both russia and turkey said that they will be moderating the peace in her. Menial only agreed to the terms after the city of shusha or sushi sushi depending on your armenian or other michelle you pronounce differently after that city was still key city was taking. It was taken by the entrepreneurs forces and the reason this is bad is because it literally opens a direct path to step on kirk which is again the capital of nagorno-karabakh. And they're saying oh god. They took the city leap. We gotta make peace. Now we're gonna take capital near where it's over. We're going to lose nagorno-karabakh so they made peace to the city was also seated in the peace. Deal not good for media And so this led to mass celebrations in the johnny capital of baku people in the streets. They're taking pictures on snapchat just all great great ties in baku. And they're so happy they're saying sushi or has been our city forever and historically and we are glad to have back our meetings taking over nagorno-karabakh. No no it's ours now. Mania was clearly not happy because now they're capitals kind of exposed. Integrative care by the apple capital of yerevan is still all safe. Entitlement at maitland. Armenia but Certainly certainly interesting situation land was ceded. you don't see that very often but unlike the six previous ceasefires. This one actually seems a whole upon its signing. the fighting is actually stopped so at least it won't be any more but hundreds of people have died on this. This was. I knew it was a six week. War was quite short but it was still. It was still very devastating for the people living in that region so over two thousand russian peacekeepers to be deployed in so far. This deal has actually held. Like i said unlike the prior one. So these these mostly shrimps are going to be going to the lake. Impasse as i said but they'll be going to some other spots as well But the main theme that you're gonna gotta this is. Our media is losing control of nagorno-karabakh they had pretty much. It was like a client state of them before now. The the crucial like a passing points or controlled by russia's a neutral zone and some land was ceded including the city of shusha so Not a great deal for them and their perspective but it could have been worse. They have lost the entire region and that's why they need a piece to begin with everyone. So that is all we have for today. I hope. I hope you guys enjoyed this. He and enjoyed it. I enjoyed it too. Yeah and i am. You should do. But what if you're listening to this and you're out and about and you're doing your shopping or go to work. You know you do need to tap on the shoulder and say she'll listen to this podcast. You're driving pullover and shot it all the cars and say hey go listen to the world that larch listen to it and downloaded guys. If you're gonna listen to download lever of you leave that paragraph beautiful paragraph share it with all your friends in its and a few other things Again we do not up last week. We apologize for that We we stayed up. We livestream for the election. So we quite tired It takes me about three hours to make these episodes. I just want you guys to know that So i would have done it if i did not have three hour. See you quality content. It would have been bad if we can't bring you quality content. What's the point. Yeah exactly i. I need to understand the topics right. And there's no point doing th. If i can't understand the topic so i apologize for that however thanks you to three of you. Who left for us. Yes three of you left review so thank you. We can't see who did it. But yes i Seriously thank you so much. It makes really happy when you do that. and Minus some massive emergency. We should be up next wednesday as well So thank you guys for listening. I hope you enjoyed. We are politics thousand one and you are listening to the world at large good-bye everybody.
Extreme weather raises questions about climate prediction models
"The world is brought to you by progressive. Have you tried the name your price tool yet. It works just the way it sounds. You tell progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. It's easy to start a quote and you'll be able to find a rate that works for you. It's just one of the many ways you can save with progressive get your quote today at progressive dot com and see four out of five new auto customers recommend progressive progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law at long last covert restrictions have lifted across england and brits are inching toward normalcy face. No longer mandatory. Everyone in the shops today appeared to be wearing them so the public has made up their own mind also today. Climate scientists offered dire predictions. But could they actually be understating. The danger and a federal judge strikes a blow to an obama era immigration policy leaving hundreds of thousands of emigrants with an uncertain future. We are very hired. Emotionally is from from working so hard all the time just to survive another challenge to dhaka and the space of two billionaires is not impressing everyone what they're are going to be that great but they're gonna have to pretend like it was i'm marco werman all of that and more today. You're on the world. i'm marco werman. You're with the world it is good to be with you. On what many in england or calling freedom day the day that most covert restrictions are being lifted. It's also ironic the british prime minister and chancellor are both self isolating. After the country's health secretary tested positive recovered nineteen across europe. It's a different story. Countries like the netherlands and spain are reintroducing emergency restrictions as corona virus infection rates soar. Our europe correspondent orla. Barry is on the line with us from london. How does it feel there today. Or left or weeks of lockdown Now coming to an end actually feels pretty much like any day of the past few months to be honest marco for those of us who weren't at the nightclubs last night eight pretty much at the same. The difference on public transport for example was a face masks. Were no longer mandatory. But when i was on the train this morning pretty much everyone was wearing a face mask in shops to face mask. No longer mandatory. Everyone in the shops today appeared to be wearing them so the public has made up their mind. What they want to do where you did see. The difference. last night was at midnight last night. There was hundreds of people queuing outside nightclubs in london and across england and a journalist with the eye newspaper here recorded the moment that heaven nightclub which is gain up and so who in london opened at midnight. And you can take thousand people jumping into the air and those balloons glacier and it's pretty much like new year's eve and the moment the video went up of course vigil since gone violent. There's just hundreds of comments underneath from people saying you know thank you. We'd be back into lockdown in a month's time you're perhaps. Cynicism is warranted because meantime prime minister boris johnson chancellor richest suna can the british health secretary. All three or self-isolating. Not exactly a good look to promote freedom day. No it certainly isn't a bad downing. Street's argument is that on the balance of risk at the cases will rise but because sixty eight percent of adults happy fully vaccinated here. They say the chances of people getting seriously ill or dying from the virus have been significantly lowered. And that's a gamble. They're prepared to take you. Know i think about essential workers orla who have been on the job for the past. Five hundred days is not exactly a liberating change of pace. What are people saying about the arrival of freedom day in the uk wall infection rates. There have jumped in recent weeks. He writes a cases. Now whereas around fifty thousand today in the highest rate since mid-january the majority of the public doesn't seem to agree that the time to do this was a yougov. Poll out this morning saying that. Why thirty one percent of people were in favor of restrictions being lifted fifty five percents were opposed to us and many of them are scientists. I spoke to dr jeep. T- gorgeous sani earlier. she's a clinical epidemiologist with queen. Mary university of london. And i asked her how she was feeling. I mean i feel quite scared. Because we've lifted those restrictions in the middle of what's raging pandemic racing over fifty thousand cases daily now and over seven hundred people being admitted to hospital every day. Our hospitals are telling us that they are are really struggling with the number of cases coming to them emergency departments and they're having to a again cancelled routine care to cope and orleans. It's not just in the uk where cases are on the rise it it's happening across. The eu and in some cases restrictions are being reimposed. See exactly in the netherlands. For example cases rose around five hundred percent in the space of one week and actually the netherlands the good example for the uk because at the start of july. They opened their nightclubs and a week. Glacier figures soared three quarters of the infections were said to be among young people and prime minister marketa last week came out and said look. We lifted restrictions too quickly. We regret we apologize. Nightclubs have now shut down again. Until mid-august in spain cases of alta jumped fivefold over the last two weeks and again curfews were reintroduced in over thirty towns in spain in polluting in barcelona. So you know while they're watching the uk going in one direction. The rest of the eu appears to be going in the officers. The world's your correspondent orla barry on cove restrictions. Going up and going down across europe. Or the thank you very much. You're welcome arco from a blistering heat wave across canada and the pacific northwest massive flooding in germany and belgium. Recent extreme weather has some climate scientists surprised by just how extreme. It's gotten and how fast that happened. Scientists say climate change is making these types of events possible and are also asking our climate models keeping up with the rapid pace of change joining me. Now is michael. Man from penn state university man is a well-known climate scientists who has helped document the pace of change. We've seen over the past several centuries abroad broad question to start with michael do these extreme events. We're seeing the summer. Lead you to believe that the impact climate change are going to be worse than current climate models predict. Yeah in fact. My co authors. And i have been arguing this for a number of years now that Many of these very persistent weather extremes that we've seen in the west coast of the us in europe and around the entire northern hemisphere are tied to a phenomenon ops got a fancy term planetary wave resonance What it means is the undulations of the jet stream get stuck in the same location. So you get these really big high pressure systems that stay put over the west coast for example with the heat. And it's really the persistence as well as the extreme nature of these anomalies and weather that are associated with some of the most devastating extreme weather events we've seen and that wave behavior in the atmosphere just isn't very well captured in current generation climate models so with planetary wave resonance those waves of heat. They get stuck. As you said can ever get unstuck. And how would you do that yet. They eventually do just like a particular weather. Pattern doesn't last forever. There's enough sort of natural variability and chaos in the system that eventually breaks down. And that's what's going to happen here. In fact there's evidence that it is starting to break down but you know that's a little constellation to people who've been stuck under that heat dome for weeks on end so you know about planetary where residents michael but the recent heat wave or flood still surprise you it. Did you know it's one thing to be studying this stuff. Theoretically it's something quite different to actually watch them playing out on your television screen. These devastating floods in europe. That are the worst on record in europe. It's a reminder that you know by many standards the climate models the climate projections that you hear about our conservative. I'm just looking at the pictures this weekend. from germany and the floods. I mean how troubling is the climate models. Were not able to predict this kind of weather. How damaging could those miscalculations be. Well you know there is always risk in the real world. There are things that are happening. That are more extreme than what our climate models for decked and so we have to understand that there are limitations in the models today and those limitations are actually a reminder that if anything we may be understating the impact of climate change is playing with these extreme events and we have to be prepared for more extreme weather are the models likely to improve with time and research or is the flooding and warming world like say like one step ahead of our ability to predict it. I'm fairly optimistic that the models will get better when it comes to. The impact of climate change is having on extreme weather events or another very important factor. The collapse of the ice sheets of melting of ice in the rise in sea level climate models in the past have tended to underestimate bad effect as well because of processes that were well represented in the models in a scientists start to put those processes into the models. We get more realistic predictions. And unfortunately they're pointing in the direction. Once again of things being worse than we predicted just a decade ago. Michael manas climate scientists at penn state university. He's also the author of the new climate war. The fight to take back our planet. Michael thanks very much speaking with today. Thank you it was a pleasure. It's d day minus one for jeff. Pays us the multi-billionaire founder amazon basis is preparing to lift off into space tomorrow with three other people. He'll be traveling in his own rocket developed by blue origin. His private space company basis calling the launch historic and it is sort of the world's are burn bound reports. Jeff bezos was itching to be first. But wouldn't you know it. British billionaire richard branson beat him to it branston hurdle to space on his virgin galactic rocketship nine days ago. Comedian stephen colbert hosted the live web stream. Greetings planet earth. The musician khalid performed on the tarmac race. No word yet on whether elon. Musk plans to jump on his rocketship. This spacex falcon nine but in any case we have what the media is calling the billionaire's space race leeann airspace. Race with the billionaire's space race. This space race is much different than the international race to the moon in the nineteen sixties until recently only governments controlled the ability to send humans into space. This is john logged in the former director of the space policy institute at george washington university. Now you have people like those. Musk branson trying to develop that capability and build a business around it elon musk. Space x is more focused on winning. Large-scale government contracts but bezos and branson are competing for a foothold in the emerging space. Tourism industry charging hundreds of thousands of dollars for short rides to the edge of space. The billionaires have gotten a lot of criticism for what they're doing and while it has not been kind it has been funny. Really billionaires here are comedian staff myers and amy poehler phases are going to be that great but they're going to have to pretend like it was like when you go to hawaii or a michelin star restaurant that no one can get into dude. You haven't been space. Oh you go. They haven't apricot salmon phone to die. You gotta go yang. Read the room you know. Launching these egotistical space races in the midst of a pandemic is just ridiculous. Shannon's stone is a freelance science journalist. She says the whole thing sounds like the plot of a b. movie to billionaires are building competing rockets to try to race each other to space while half of the country's on fire there's deadly climate change there's a global pandemic or millions of people have died. If it weren't upsetting it would be hilarious. Generations job to build the road to space so that the future generations can unleash their creativity. Jeff bezos paints his venture in humanistic terms. And so does richard branson. We're here to make space more accessible to all. We want to turn the next generation of dreamers into the astronauts of today and tomorrow billionaires have their credit but others believe in their vision. Sarah masri is one of them. She's a planetary scientist at ryerson university in toronto. She says she always wanted to be an astronaut with nasa but alas it was not to be you have to be sort of you know cream of the crop top to live to be elected to be an astronaut with nasa but now with origin virgin galactic space x for example. They're going to be able to start taking people like you and i to space. Yes she says. The first customers will be millionaires and billionaires but eventually she thinks the ticket price will go down. I kind of think of it as plane tickets and flights when it just started it probably was not accessible to a lot of people but now flight. Tickets are becoming more and more affordable. She hopes spaceflights will become affordable in her lifetime. And that's what space companies claim says gear most online. He's an entrepreneur in zurich with a focus on space but he press them on. How long is it gonna take to get the price down to ten thousand dollars. They don't even know online is psyched about today's space race. For a different reason. If you think back to apollo eleven the average age should control was twenty six and the ideas that these young people had about where the envision humanity being in ten years. Fifteen years twenty years. I think we lost that somewhere along the way. And i think what spacex for geographic in lorge companies like them are doing is probably the greatest contribution is they're bringing that back online says. These companies are inspiring a whole new generation to reach for the stars. Even if for the time being. You have to be uber rich to get there for the world. I'm sarah birnbaum. You're listening to the world. i'm marco werman. This is the world you may have heard of the spyware pegasus before today. It had been used by saudi authorities to monitor journalists yamaoka shoji before his assassination. Today we learned that. The israeli made surveillance tool is pretty popular. A consortium of news organizations found that several countries are using pegasus to spy on journalists activists and dissidents including the hungarian investigative news organization direct thirty-six andreas petty as one of the journalists air. He was also part of the investigation. Andreas tell us a little bit about your organization. Direct thirty six and how you discover that people. There were essentially being spied on thirty. Six is an investigative reporting nonprofit basting hungary we have a team of seven people And how did you discover that you were being surveilled by a pegasus. The project was led by a peres based organization for stories and they had access to a database of phone numbers that were selected as surveillance targets by the client so nso than they found that one of my colleagues subject plunged investigative reporter covering the national security issues. He was one of the targets and we found that a second call of mine on subtle was also one of the targets and then the proof of their surveillance was that amnesty international security lab. They analyze the phones. The device of my two colleagues and they found clear tracy's There and does the investigation suggests that it was the hungarian government that use this pegasus tool. And how do we know that. So the data itself doesn't say anything about the clients who use the packers who software but we know from on statements that they only sell their products to governments to law enforcement agencies and we also learned from sources inside nso and also sources close to the hungarian security agencies. that hungary has indeed purchase the software. Andreas how much information about. You can pegasus actually collect. They can see everything that you have on your phone or message. Is your phone calls. Contact lists lists or photos your videos everything you know. Of course they will know where you are and they can also turn to phone own so it's a really really powerful as specifically. Are there things that you're concerned about with your colleagues that they might have been working on. That may have been picked up by pegasus. Both of my colleagues were targeted and successfully. Their devices were hecht in two thousand nineteen. Neither of them found. You know any problems with sources. They didn't suffer any repercussions ord evernote consequences. I'm more concerned about you. Know now story. It's getting a lot of attention which is great. I think the public has the right to know about this. But i'm also afraid that you know what kind of effect this will have on our work. Our sources or potential sources with this news out there suspicions. Obviously turn to the hungarian government as a client as the client. I'm wondering if there's been any reaction from the government in budapest to this news. The initial response was it was a very short. That apparently very carefully composed unser. They said that they allowed not aware of any data collection of the request for comment and they sent a follow up email. A few minutes later and that was more political message. And basically they ask consortium if there was any foreign intelligence behind this reporting project andres what have you and your colleagues done to protect yourself since. This news came out a new phone. Unfortunately that want you too much saw you know because this is probably the most well known spy tool but there are many hours now. Changing your phone one to protect you. The ads who go back to our notebooks and in person conversations andres petiot is a hungarian journalists that direct thirty-six talking about his colleagues there who appear to have been hacked by the nso pegasus surveillance tool andreas. Thank you for your time. Thank you thank you for interest in another front today. In the cyber wars the biden administration and some us allies publicly blamed china for a massive hack of microsoft exchange. Email servers that happened in march impacting tens of thousands of computers. Chris painters been following all of this. He was the top cyber diplomat under the obama administration. Can you sort of chris by telling us a little bit more about the microsoft exchange. Hack what what exactly happened this disabled while ago as you may recall. This was an intrusion into a microsoft exchange servers. Many many many people use it was essentially a supply chain attack that then compromise many victims corporate victims victims around the us and the world was particularly significant about it. I think as contrast to the solar wins intrusion. That involved russia is it was data very reckless way. That left these victim. Computers open to further exploitation by ransomware actors in bad guys so was a nation state. That did it but they did it in such a way that it left victims exposed to furniture conduct. Why is today's announcement of public blaming of china significant. Well i think a couple of reasons. I walk just naming and shaming alone is not unlikely to change china's behavior russia's behavior but it does have an effect it has an effect in educating the public educating and working with other allies and partners and it does have some effect on the on the adversaries. Lawler the the wrongdoers. Well i think is particularly significant. This time is this was bundled with some other chinese cyber activity and the range of partners and allies joined. The us in this condonation was incredibly broad broader than ever been before including nato including a lot of european countries individually which is in itself because it shows. This is not just a us problem. This is a problem that we all need to focus on and take seriously so. So i do think this is foundational for us to do anything else. Now and i think we probably would have to take further actions actually change china's calculus but getting this out. They're making it clear that the us government has found this and has high confidence in this and and getting these other partners and allies to similarly. Come out. I think is very strong. So what kind of message does ascended china's a signal a more assertive shift by the us would trying to change. its calculus. yeah i. I think it's absolutely shows were assertive. You ask nassir shows the. Us is not acting alone which is always difficult because lots of countries have financial and other dependencies on china. So it makes it very significant. They came out with these countries. Came out with these statements. We also signals that we take seriously. This is unacceptable conduct. And that we're gonna take action so the first action is this kind of public attribution public calling out. But that as i said is not sufficient. We're going to probably have to take other actions to convince china to not do this. So i do think there's a glide path here if we have sustained is not a light switch. You changed overnight but you need to stay in pressure needed to be willing to use your tools like economic sanctions and other tools to reinforce these points if this is not something. We believe is acceptable. Well interestingly there were no sanctions put on china today. sanctions were put on russia for its past alleged role in cybercrimes. Why the difference. Well you know interesting. I think that probably sanctions will be needed this but this could be the first step you know getting all these governments to agree had to take some time. My guest is the. Us was ready to announce his probably a while ago but felt it was important to gather these these other countries to do it jointly with us and i think that is important but that doesn't mean that sanctions and other activities are not going to be forthcoming. I think this is step one. This is sort of the foundational step but it certainly. I think those have to happen. I expect they will happen. But we'll see chris. Painter is an expert on cyber warfare and was the top cyber diplomat during the obama administration. Thanks for joining us today. Chris appreciate your time happening with you. Today you're listening to the world after twenty years at guantanamo bay prisoner goes home to morocco. The biden white house. Pick up where. Obama left off aiming to shut down gitmo. Just thirty nine detainees remain behind the only way to clovis montano is to move guantanamo. The united states which is a controversial debate. The future of gitmo still ahead here on the world. I'm marco werman. This is the world. We're co production of gbh boston npr. Ex for three decades sudan in east. Africa was ruled by one man omar al-bashir until the twenty nine hundred popular uprising. That ousted him now. Two years after the end of beshir's rain sudan is still a country in transition and a big question lingers for the future of that nation what role should religion play in politics. Today we have. The first in a series of stories about religion sudan reported by the world's africa correspondent alina condie joins me now on the line. So give us some reason. History here lehman. Why issues around. The separation of religion and state loom salahudin. Right now well to answer that question. I have to take you back about thirty years ago to nineteen eighty nine Because that was the year one then military officer omar alba sheer led a successful military coup And then him together with the national islamic front party and the muslim brotherhood her all this new period and sudan that Essentially islamicised to country at saw this big islamic revolution To essentially bring religion and state and society together and not impacted all facets of life and so when bashir was ousted himself in a different q after nationwide protests in two thousand nineteen. As you mentioned this put into question. Okay looking forward for sudan. How much of the past thirty years will be uprooted and what will remain the same. So this question impacts so many different areas of life in sudan And it's constantly coming up in different ways. So what does that mean for ordinary people down like how did islamic law come to play out in people's lives on a day-to-day basis. Well when this period of islamization of the country started at it impacted all parts of life from the economy to the education system to the banking system All of those began to be impacted by this particular religious ideology So everyone was was impacted in different ways There are also these kind of public order. Laws that vaguely talked about morality And kind of what what. It means to be good religious person and were kind of seen as excuse to crackdown on sudanese people And so overall. The islamization of the country had a big ramifications for everyone mostly because sudan as a diverse country Especially religiously you have Muslims from different groups. You have christians. Jews who follow traditional african beliefs. So this put many sudanese at odds with the government so share was overthrown in two thousand nineteen sudan. Today looks at these questions about religion and nationalism. What is the current government there. What does it look like so. After the two thousand eighteen revolution military leaders came together with members of the political opposition and form. This transitional government tasked with steering the country towards these democratic elections A couple years and at the head of this government is a civilian prime minister. Abdullah um duck who's leading the country And together they all represent very different ideologies different ambitions different agendas for the government Who don't agree about this question of religion and the state So when i set out to report in sudan. I really wanted to get a sense of what ordinary sudanese people think on this issue so on a very hot friday afternoon i went to a wrestling match. Which is a popular pastime in. Khartoum and symbolic please dot really taps into this question of religion and the state hundreds of fans turn out to watch athletes wrestle each other to the ground an open field. This traditional style of wrestling comes from the nuba mountains in the southern part of the country. The sport has become popular across sudan. People crowd around the winners cheering them on and throwing money out them for years people from the nuba mountains many of them. Christians were an armed conflict with sudan's government but the ousting of omar al-bashir has brought a chance for peace. The new transitional government in khartoum is negotiating with rebels from the nuba mountains and their reviving an old debate about secularism the separation between religion and the state. I asked my answer would about this. He's a new been wrestler and says secularism is a good thing lay in dinosaur honor. Those people from the central government for thirty years in the name of religion in the name of islam says the wooed who's muslim himself but they've been lying to the sudanese people he says. Now we need secularism so we can get away from that nonsense by nonsense. He's referring to the way beshir's government waged war against people in the south and the name of islam for many sudanese in the nuba mountains. The issue of secular government is personal says professor juma kunda komi he's a christian from the new mountains and until recently he was an official peace adviser for the prime minister. A buck home. From the number montana where i came from the issue of the separation of religion estate. It's not something that is for leisure. Nana this is something printed in their mind and they all see that all. The people have been killed bombarding. They were actually victimize under the name of islam earlier this year. The government in khartoum signed a deal with the main rebel group nuba and declared that sudan had no state religion at least in principle. That is a major shift from the mindset of the former government says professor komi the state of mind of that the majority are muslims and therefore the governor system should be business lum is something which is diminishing most of the political parties in the country but the climax of this was under the superior him the ncp or national congress party under bashir pushed a strict islamic vision for sudan which is a diverse country both religiously and ethnically that komi says had major consequences ten years ago when christians in the south declared independence. One of the reason that actually separate the country the sosa was the unwillingness of the previous regime to repeal sherry from the country that would have virtually saved the unit of the country. Many people from new about say there's a risk of other parts of the country breaking away if sudan is not able to take religious ideology out of government affairs. But even now komi says. Secularism means provocative an emotional concept for many sudanese. The meaning of secular has been corrupted in. This is politics because it is equated to until legion movement. The grandmas downtown khartoum dozens of worshippers are finishing up their evening. Prayers sadique mohammed. Ali is a businessman. Who praise here long. Delo four to cut delo sudanese. People are muslim. says ali will die to protect mom. If the former government made mistakes all he tells me the new one should correct them but sudan can never get rid of religion. Altogether them shadows overdone sedan. Refuses secularism ali says in this transitional government was not elected which is true. The current government is supposed to pave the way for elections and a few years. People like ali. Say that big questions like the separation of religion and state must be decided by elected leader. Professor hassan el haj ali. Off mad agrees. He's a political scientist at the university of khartoum. Any issue regarding the future direction of the of the country should be lift to government mandated by the people hassan argues. The transitional government is heading down slippery slope by trying to quote de islamicize. The country islamic principles profoundly influenced the way sudan's economy law government all work. Hassan says so creating a secular system has major implications. Are we going to see a complete. Overhaul of our educational system or judicial system or economic system has gone warns that if the government makes too many changes on social issues. They've risk a backlash from religious conservatives. Because this is like you're trying to impose performed from above bike the government trying to make social engineering from in other words controversial issues about identity and religion. Those should wait but the current government has already started making big changes. Its recently introduced. Alternatives to islamic banking created a council to review family laws that are rooted in sharia law and making major reforms and its education system will hear more about that tomorrow for the world. I'm holy mecca condie. Khartoum sudan sacred. Nation is our ongoing series about religion and nationalism around the globe with funding from the henry. Lewis foundation explore the series online at the world dot. Org slash sacred nation. Thirty nine prisoners remain at the guantanamo bay detention camp. After one man abdul-latif nassir was sent home today to morocco. He was a commander and weapons trainer for the taliban afghanistan but was never charged with a crime during his nearly. Twenty years of incarceration at guantanamo. Nassar is now in the hands of moroccan authorities. He's the first prisoner. That president biden is transferred out of gitmo and each remaining case poses questions about the future of the camp ever since the military prison was bill. Carol rosenberg has reported on it. deeply. She's with the new york times. Caralis begin with today's news. What could this transformation for. The remaining thirty nine detainees guantanamo. So first of all it shows that the by administration is back in the business of trying to get people out and close the detention center. Which is the unfinished business of the obama administration. You're to that question about the existence of the base. I mean there's been a debate and questions as with each administration since george w bush about whether or if the game prison would be shut down. What does this tell you and your own understanding having reported on facility for so long that they seem to be adopting the obama playbook which is figure out how to get the people they can. And then i mean. They've made clear they're going to try to work with congress on trying to figure out the solution for the people they can't or won't send to third countries. You know marco. The only way to close guantanamo is to move guantanamo. The united states is to have a detention style setting for the folks they will not release the convicts or the people they want to put on trial and perhaps some people they think are too dangerous and pick them up and move them to a us. Setting you know. Kim to call it guantanamo north but congress has blocked that they refused to allow any of those men to be relocated to the united states for any reason not for trial not for detention not for medical treatment. So it's a big big climb for this administration to find the allies in congress to allow them to move however many dozens a dozen to some sort of secure setting in the united states is a a partisan issue and we'll politics again get in the way of moving to the us. It seems to be kind of red meat in campaign season to accuse anyone who's willing to come up with an alternative to guantanamo to accuse them of being soft on terror. That's sort of the line but there's no suggestion that these men will be released in the united states. The idea is that they would be tried convicted or plead guilty and put in maximum security south settings so carol you recently returned to guantanamo bay after the pandemic kept you away for five. Hundred days was at the longest period of time. You've not been on assignment there since it opened in two thousand and two. And what did you see what was different. I spent well over a thousand nights at guantanamo across the years. And i've never been away for you. Know the equivalent of a full calendar year. Plus and what. I was really struck. Me marco. is that virtually every single person who works at the prison and all of the leadership at the base has turned over came down with a group of reporters in a group of lawyers for the first hearing in a case involving a man accused of being an al qaeda commander and the only people who knew what the last hearing looked like a couple of years ago where the prisoner the press and the lawyers all the soldiers. Even the judge were new to the case. There's a lot there's a. There's a lot to be learned by the new people who are going to be handling procedures new york times reporter. Carol rosenberg is written about guantanamo bay. Since the detention camp was built in two thousand and two carol. Thanks very much for joining us. Oh it's my pleasure marco. The future for a major obama era immigration policy is now endowed daca deferred action for childhood arrivals protect certain undocumented immigrants from deportation people who came to the us as children. It also provides them with a work permit but last week a federal judge in texas rule that the program is unconstitutional. The world's monica campbell's here to tell us what this means for people in the program and what this means for the administration of joe biden meeting his immigration campaign promises. Monica first of all. Who does this ruling effect and not effect at least for now this ruling effects anybody who wants to be a part of the program and that's tens of thousands of people who have applied to be in the daca program since the start of the year more or less and it does not affect immediately at least people who are currently in the program or looking to renew their status within the program. So you can turn in your application but immigration officials are blocked from moving forward on it. Who exactly wants to end the daca program. Monica people who are against offering any sort of Path to citizenship offering a larger reform to the millions of undocumented people in the united states that they see this as kind of opening the door. And not just two people here in the us but props to the world that this will signal that more people can come into the united states and eventually get papers. This is seen as kind of a slippery slope test. Daca has long been that the support for that remain strong and powerful especially in places like texas and a lot of other republican led states. That support this court ruling so the administration is expected to appeal but after that. What are the possible scenarios. I mean could this go to the supreme court has daca has in the past. It absolutely could and i spoke to people who have been defending daca at the supreme court at the table. They are offering some blunt truth. They're saying that. This judge in texas the district court judge in texas is ruling. Could very well pass all the way up to the supreme court and that we know that the supreme court is a more conservative. One right now. I spoke with louis. Court does romito. He is one of immigration lawyers. Who's been right up in front defending daca. He's in seattle. He said that he is now really looking for more permanent. Fix hoping that congress can step in and try and rescue the program. We know that collectively we can move mountains and make things happen. And we've done it in the past and we just need to make sure that we stick together so can do it now and what they're banking on right now is that congress will step and perhaps through the budget reconciliation process and that you may see a pathway to citizenship and more permanent fix for dhaka and perhaps other undocumented immigrants rolled into that process and we'll save two billion unsure uncertain process ahead. Write as you said that may happen. So what have you heard from. People most affected by the latest news. People who want in the daca program are they expressing concern about what this could suggest more widely about how biden we'll deal with what many see is a broken immigration system. There's a ton of concern. We spoke with one young woman in virginia. She's nineteen years old carla margallo dorado and she applied for the daca program about six months ago. She's originally from. Bolivia came to the united states when she was two years old now. Her future in the us is uncertain. The florist dropping out with a chance for papers the chance to work to be eligible for in state tuition loans in a country that she's been in for most of her life. Try to step into our shoes as we are really tired emotionally From from working so hard all the time and having to justify our existence having just by our livelihood. It's hard yeah. I also spoke with people hoping for dhaka who have. Us citizen children. Many of the people were talking about are in their twenties and well into their thirties. They want change so there will be a lot of organizing around this especially considering it was part of biden's campaign promise the world's immigration editor monica campbell. Thanks very much for this. Update you're welcome lithuania. One of the baltic states is seen a sudden increase of migrants from iraq. The lithuanian government wants baghdad. To do something about this. But it's not as simple as iraq changing its migration policies. The influx of iraqi migrants has a lot to do with the dispute between lithuania's next door neighbor bellarusse and the european union belarus is accused of sending iraqi migrants into europe as a form of political payback reporter. Rebecca collared reports from northern iraq about the people caught in the middle of a political spat in europe in his barber shop in the camp in northern iraq. So bus dune has a steady stream of customers he trims beards and cut hair for the displaced disease that live here but in the past two months. He's been hearing about something new from his clientele of mostly young men as tomorrow but roosters. They've been talking about belarus. The eastern european country now under eu sanctions over human rights abuses the as yet. But then there's a like in a very short time like maybe maybe twenty of my clients customers They have gun for boleros last month. Bellarusse it's jets and a fake terror threat to force a passenger flight. En route from greece. Lithuania to lend in belarus authorities arrested a belorussian opposition journalists. Who was on board. It was an audacious move that escalated political tensions between belarus and the e u. Nobody cares about that. But what they do care about. Is that belarus now allows visa free entry for rockies and seventy other nationalities and that belarus has a four hundred mile long mostly unmonitored border with lithuania in e you member state in the last month more than a thousand migrants and asylum have crossed that border compared with just eighty one caught in all of two thousand twenty speaking to turkey state broadcaster last week. Lithuania's foreign minister gabriella lens burgas accused belarus of helping the migrants. They spend few days in minsk in government owned hotels on apartments and then they are by buses. They transported to the border show. Transit points given instructions on what to say how to act when you see authorities bodyguards. Most of those crossing were iraqi and many of them were from iraq's easy minority twenty-three-year-old ibrahim-khalil sits down and stock dunes. Barbara chair and tells me the harrowing story of how he narrowly escaped death in two thousand fourteen. That's when isis took over his village in jar. The militants rounded up yazidi residence and separated. The men from the women and children halil says. He was held in a mosque with about two dozen other men in the j. love in the nights. The there's an air strike into the most sort became open disquieting. And they run away. They managed to run away. He says he never saw most of the women again. Seven years later many cds from sanjar are still living intense the a few services and job prospects and many say they will never feel safe in iraq again sharp mid charging not living in a very bad live in the tens on this in here so halil met with a smuggler. Who promised he could get him to. Germany through belarus here wants to stay long term in lithuania. He says they all want to move on to wealthier. Eu states got but we wanted to go a country which is like germany outside the barbershop. Kids from the camp play in the dusty rose between the tents after being here so long. Some of the families have set up small gardens with vines growing up the side of the plastic sheets that are there walls. it's a bit of protection from the hundred plus degree heat in the winter. Temperatures can drop below-freezing yasser khader stands next to align of freshly hung laundry. I always send my friends that i want to leave this country on. All of my friends are Like me because the See the live here in iraq across the country. Iraqis are facing a lack of jobs. Water and electricity security is a concern. Also with rival militias competing for influence a rockies from all ethnic and religious groups are trying to get to europe through minsk but iraq's yazidi minority feel particularly vulnerable. They say they were abandoned by iraq's national army and kurdish peshmerga forces when isis showed up in two thousand fourteen and even now with isis defeated. They don't trust iraq security forces. We are a small minority on the we cannot live there. Live here on the we. We're afraid of our future here. We always want to To leave this country and to live in peace in a in a broad It's impossible to to feel safe here. How people here don't want to talk about the role of human smugglers. But i speak with one kurdish iraqi. Who says his brother left earlier this month. He graduated from university and then spent two years unable to get a job. So he met with a trafficker. Lamantia has many when the brother goes to the place. Says like i'm arrive it so this this guy. This brother says he's driving now. You can release them into. He says the family pooled their money and went into debt to help his brother get out. It was a better investment than his brothers college degree. he says. Back in the barbershop. Polio says the smuggler. He matt wanted fifteen thousand dollars to get into germany through belarus. It would take him years to say that kind of money. Halil is also the only person i meet here who is really aware of the political dispute between belarus. And the e you then. So that's right now is like the doesn't doesn't catch people who who trying to go so is just like open to the board of that has sent more border guards to lithuania and putting up razor-wire along the frontier with belarus to try to physically stop the flow of people for rockies already in lithuania. They're fate is unclear. Lithuania's foreign ministers calling on iraq government to take them back and taku commercial flights belarus. Rian not calling it a refugee crisis. We're calling it then. Hybrid attack but here in the camps of northern iraq. Plenty of people are as desperate as ever to find a route out of the country for the world. I'm rebecca collared. Sdn camp in northern iraq. The world comes to you from the and bill harra. Gbh in boston. You can find us online anytime at the world dot. Org i'm marco werman. Thanks for being here. We'll see again tomorrow.
Extreme weather raises questions about climate prediction models
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Count it lets you hold and convert dozens of currencies all in one place and you always get the real exchange rate with no markups like the banks sometimes. Give you so whether you're sending money to australia hopping on a plane to poland or getting paid from france. Why is this all you need. Designed by international people for international people try wise for free at why is dot com slash world along last covert restrictions lifted across england and brits are inching toward normalcy face. No longer mandatory. Everyone in the shops today appeared to be wearing them so the public has made up their own mind also today. Climate scientists offered dire predictions. But could they actually be understating. The danger and a federal judge strikes blow to an obama era immigration policy leaving hundreds of thousands of emigrants with an uncertain future. We are really hired emotionally physically from from working so hard all the time just to survive another challenge to dhaka and the space race of billionaires is not impressing everyone. What's up next up. There now faces. They're going to be that great but they're going to have to pretend like it was. I'm marco werman all of that more today. You're on the world. i'm marco werman. You're with the world it is good to be with you. On what many. In england or calling freedom day the day that most cove restrictions are being lifted. It's also ironic. The british prime minister and the chancellor are both self isolating after the country's health secretary tested positive for covert nineteen across europe. It's a different story. Countries like the netherlands and spain are reintroducing emergency restrictions as corona virus infection rates store. Our correspondent orla is on the line with us from london. How does it feel there today. Or left or weeks of lockdown Now coming to an end actually feels pretty much like any day of the past few months to be honest marco for those of us who weren't at the nightclubs last night. It's pretty much at the same. The difference on public transport for example was that face masks. Were no longer mandatory. But when i was on the train this morning pretty much everyone was wearing a face mask in shops to face mask. No longer mandatory. Everyone in the shops today appear to be wearing them so the public has made up their own. Mind what they want to do Where you did the difference. Last night was at midnight last night. There was hundreds of people queuing outside nightclubs in london and across england and a journalist with the eye newspaper here recorded the moment that heaven nightclub which is gay night up and so when london opened at midnight and you can seek thousand people are jumping into the air does balloons in this glacier. And it's pretty much like new year's eve and the moment the video went up of course if it does since gone viral. There's just hundreds of comments underneath from people saying you know thank you. We'd be back into lockdown in a month's time perhaps that cynicism is warranted because meantime prime minister bronson chancellor richest tuna can the british health secretary. All three yourself isolating not exactly a good look to promote freedom day. No it certainly isn't a bad down. Argument is that on. The balance of risk at the cases will rise but because sixty percent of adults happy fully vaccinated here. They say the chances of people getting seriously ill or dying from the virus have been significantly lowered. And that's a gamble. They're prepared to take you. Know i think about essential workers orla who have been on the job for the past. Five hundred days is not exactly a liberating change of pace. What are people saying about the arrival of freedom day in the uk wall infection rates. There have jumped in recent weeks. He writes a cases. Now whereas around fifty thousand today at the highest rate since mid-january the majority of the public doesn't seem to agree that this is the time to do this. There was a yougov. Poll out this morning saying that while thirty one percent of people were in favor of old restrictions being lifted fifty five percents were opposed to us and many of them are scientists. I spoke to dr gouda assani earlier. She's a clinical epidemiologist with queen. Mary university of london. And i asked her how she was feeling. I mean i feel quite scared because you know. We've lifted those restrictions in the middle of what's raging pandemic racing fifty thousand cases daily now and over seven hundred people being admitted to hospital every day. Our hospitals are telling us that they are really struggling with the number of cases coming to them and see departments and they're having to Again cancelled in care to cope and orla. It's not just in the uk where cases are on the rise is it's happening across the the eu and in some cases restrictions are being reimposed. I see exactly in the netherlands. For example cases rose around five hundred percent in the space of one week and actually as a good example for the uk because at the start of july. They opened their nightclubs at a week. Glacier their figures as award three quarters of the infections were said to be among young people and prime minister martha last week came out and said look we lifted restrictions too quickly we regret. we apologize. Nightclubs have now shut down again onto mid-august in spain cases of also jumped fivefold over the last two weeks after the weekend curfews were reintroduced in over thirty thousand spain including in barcelona. So you know while they're watching the uk going in one direction. The rest of the eu appears to be going in the officers. The world. your correspondent. Orla barry on cove restrictions. Going up and going down across europe or thank you very much. You're welcome echo from a blistering heat. Wave across canada and the pacific northwest to massive flooding in germany and belgium. Recent extreme weather has some climate scientists surprised by just how extreme. It's gotten and how fast that happened. Scientists say climate change is making these types of events possible and are also asking our climate models keeping up with the rapid pace of change joining me. Now is michael. Man from penn state university man is a well-known climate scientists who has helped document the pace of change. We've seen over the past several centuries abroad question to start with michael. Do these extreme events for seeing the summer lead you to believe that. The impacts of climate change are going to be worse than current climate models predict. Yeah in fact. My co authors and. I have been arguing this for a number of years. Now that many of these very persistent weather extremes that we've seen in the west coast of the us in europe and around the entire northern hemisphere are tied to phenomenon ops got a fancy term planetary wave resonance what it means is. The undulations of the jet stream get stuck in the same location. So you get these really big high pressure systems that stay put over the west coast for example with the heat. And it's really the persistence as well as the extreme nature of these anomalies in weather that are associated with some of the most devastating extreme weather events. We've seen and that wave behavior in the atmosphere just isn't very well captured in current generation climate models so with planetary wave resonance those waves of heat. That get stuck as he said can ever get unstuck. And how would you do that yet. Eventually do just like a particular weather pattern doesn't last forever. There's enough sort of natural variability and chaos in the system that eventually breaks down. And that's what's going to happen here. In fact there's evidence that it is starting to break down but that's a little constellation to people who've been stuck under that heat dome for for weeks on end so you know about planetary where residents michael but the recent heat wave or flood still surprise you it did. It's one thing to be studying this stuff. Theoretically it's something quite different to actually watch them playing out on your television screen. These devastating floods in europe. That are the worst on record in europe. It's a reminder that you know by many standards the climate models the climate projections that you hear about our conservative. I'm just looking at the pictures this weekend. From germany and the floods i mean. How troubling is that climate models were not able to predict this kind of weather. How damaging miscalculations be. Well you know there is always risk in the real world. There are things that are happening. That are more extreme than what our climate models predict and so we have to understand that there are limitations in the models today and those limitations are actually a reminder that if anything we may be understating the impact that climate change is playing with these extreme events and we have to be prepared for more extreme weather are the models likely to improve with time and research or is the flooding and warming world likely to stay one step ahead of our ability to predict it. I'm fairly optimistic that the models will get better when it comes to. The impact of climate change is having on extreme weather events or another very important factor. The collapse of the ice sheets of melting of ice in the rise in sea level climate models in the past of tended to underestimate bad effect as well because of processes that were well represented in the models in a scientists start to put those processes into the models. We get more realistic predictions. And unfortunately they're pointing in the direction. Once again of things being worse than we predicted just a decade ago. Michael man is climate scientists at penn state university. He's also the author of the new climate war. The fight to take back our planet. Michael thanks very much speaking with us today. Thank you. It was a pleasure. It's d day minus one. For jeff bezos the multibillionaire founder of amazon basin preparing to lift off into space. Tomorrow with three other people. He'll be traveling in his own rocket developed by blue origin. His private space company basis is calling the launch historic and it is sort of the world's birnbaum reports. Jeff bezos was itching to be first. But wouldn't you know it. British billionaire richard branson beat him to it branston hurdle to space on his virgin galactic rocketship nine days ago. Comedian stephen colbert hosted the live web stream. Greetings planet earth to musician. Khalid performed on the tarmac. I no word yet on whether elon musk. Plans to jump on his rocketship. The spacex falcon nine. But in any case we have what the media is calling the billionaire. Space race leeann airspace. Race with the billionaire's space race. This space race is much different than the international race to the moon in the nineteen sixties until recently only governments controlled the ability to send humans into space. This is john. Loxton the director of the space policy institute at george washington university. Now you have people like these those. Musk brands and trying to develop that capability and build a business around it. Elon musk space. X is more focused on winning. Large-scale government contracts but basis and branson are competing for a foothold in the emerging space. Tourism industry charging hundreds of thousands of dollars for short rides to the edge of space. The billionaires have gotten a lot of criticism for what they're doing and while it has not been kind it has been funny really billionaires. Here are comedians. death myers and amy poehler. You know phase is going to be that great but they're going to have to pretend like it was like when you go to hawaii or a michelin star restaurant that no one can get into dude. You haven't been space only got though. They have an apricot damning foam to die at. Read the room. you know. Launching these egotistical space races in the midst of a pandemic is just ridiculous. Shannon's turunen is a freelance science journalist. She says the whole thing sounds like the plot of a b. Movie cure billionaires are building competing rockets to try to race each other to space while the country's on fire deadly climate change there's a global pandemic or millions of people have died if it weren't so setting. It would be hilarious. My generation's job to build the road to space so that the future generations unleash their creativity as those paints venture in humanistic terms. And so does richard branson where hit to make space more accessible to all. I want to turn the next generation of dreamers into the astronauts of today and tomorrow the billionaires have their critic but others believe in their vision. Sarah misery is one of them. She's a planetary scientist at ryerson university in toronto. She says she always wanted to be an astronaut with nasa but alas it was not to be. You have to be the cream of the crop. Top of the line can be selected to be an astronaut with nasa but now with blue origin virgin galactic space x for example. They're going to be able to start taking people like you and i to space. Yes she says. The first customers will be millionaires and billionaires but eventually she thinks the ticket price will go down. I kind of think of it as plane tickets and flights when it just started it probably was not accessible to a lot of people but now flight. Tickets are becoming more and more affordable. She hopes spaceflights will become affordable in her lifetime. And that's what space companies claim says gear most online. He's an entrepreneur in zurich with a focus on space but press them on. How long is it going to take to get the price down to ten thousand dollars. They don't even know. Sean line is psyched about today's space raised for a different reason. If you think back to apollo eleven the average age in control was twenty six and the ideas that the young people had about where they envisioned humanity being in ten years. Fifteen years twenty years. I think we lost that somewhere along the way. And i think what spacex for geographic in large companies like them are doing is probably the greatest contribution is they're bringing that back online says. These companies are inspiring a whole new generation to reach for the stars. Even if for the time being. You have to be uber rich to get there for the world. I'm sarah birnbaum. You're listening to the world. The world is supported by start up nation central when israel its residents removed their masks in june. It marked the end of its fifteen month battle with cove. Nineteen a three part. Podcast series tells. The story of victory won by a combination of technological ingenuity healthcare innovation and a nation that united behind a world-leading vaccination drive hear the sounds and voices from the frontlines and be inspired by the small country with a big story. Search for disrupt. Talk wherever you listen to podcasts. Brought to you by startup. Nation central israeli innovation has a new voice. I'm marco werman. You may have heard of the spyware pegasus before today it had been used by saudi authorities to monitor journalist jamaica shoghi before his assassination. Today we learned that. The israeli made surveillance tool is pretty popular. A consortium of news organizations found that several countries are using pegasus to spy on journalists activists and dissidents including the hungarian investigative news organization. Direct thirty six. Andreas have patios one of the journalists air. He was also part of the investigation andrea. Tell us a little bit about your organization. Thirty six and how you discover that people. There were essentially being spied on thirty. Six is an investigative reporting nonprofit basting hungary we have a team of seven people. And how did you discover that you were being surveilled by a pegasus. The project led by a paris based organization for be on stories and they had access to a database of phone numbers that were selected as a surveillance targets by the clients of nso. Sunday found that one of my colleagues subways plenty investigative reporter covering the national security issues. He was one of the targets and we found that a second colleague of mine on die. Supple was also one of the targets and then the proof of their surveillance was that the amnesty international security lab they analyze the phones the devices of my two colleagues and they found clear tracy's some software and does the investigation suggests that it was the hungarian government that used this pegasus tool. And how do we know that. So the date itself doesn't say anything about the clients or who use the packers of fair but we know from bagasse on statements that they only sell their products to governments to law enforcement agencies and also learned from sources inside nso and also sources close to hunger in the security agencies that hungary has indeed purchase software. Andreas how much information about. You can pegasus. Actually collect they can see everything that you have on your phone or messages. Your phone calls contact lists or photos your videos. Everything you know of course debut They can also turn to phone own. So it's really really powerful tool as specifically. Are there things that you're concerned about with your colleagues that they might have been working on. That may have been picked up by pegasus. Both of my colleagues were targeted and successfully Devices were hecht in two thousand nineteen. Neither of them found. You know any problems with sources. They didn't suffer any repercussions or consequences. I'm more concerned about you. Know nabi story getting a lot of attention which is great. I think the public has the right to know about this. But i'm also frayed that you know what kind of effect this will have our work on our sources or potential sources with this news out there. Suspicions obviously turned to the hungarian government. As a client as declined. I'm wondering if there's been any reaction from the government in budapest to this news. The initial response was it was a very short at apparently very carefully composed unser. They said that they are not aware of any data collection mentioned the request for comment in the day. Send a follow up email. A few minutes later and that was a more political message. Basically they asked the consortium if there was any foreign intelligence behind the reporting project andress. What have you and your colleagues done to protect yourself. Since news came out a new phone and for chelsea that want to much saw you know because this is probably the most well-known spy tal by there are many others now changing your phone one. Tv protect you. The ads who go back to our notebooks and in person conversations andre. His petiot is a hungarian journalists. That direct thirty six talking about his colleagues there who appear to have been hacked by the nso pegasus surveillance tool andrea. Thank you for your time. Thank you thank you for interest in another front today. In the cyber wars the biden administration and some us allies publicly blamed china for a massive hack of microsoft exchange. Email servers that happened in march impacting tens of thousands of computers. Chris painter has been following. All of this was the top cyber diplomat under the obama administration. Can you start off. Chris by telling a little bit more about the microsoft exchange hack. What exactly happened. This abbot a little while ago as you may recall but this was an intrusion into microsoft exchange servers and many many many people use so it was essentially a supply chain attack that then compromise many victims corporate victims victims Around the us and the world was particularly significant about. I think as contrasted to the solar winds intrusion that involved russia is it was done in a very reckless way left. These rectal computers open to further exploitation by ransomware actors in bad guys so it was a nation state that did it but they did it in such a way that left victims exposed to further conduct. Why is today's announcement public blaming of china's so significant. Well i couple of reasons. First of all just naming and shaming alone is not unlikely change. China's behavior or russia's behavior but does have an effect it hasn't affected educating the public educating and working with other allies and partners and does have some effect on the on the adversaries while are the wrongdoers. Well what i think is particularly significant. This time is this was bundled with some other chinese cyber activity and the range of partners and allies join the us condemnation was incredibly broad broader. Ever been before including nato including a lot of european countries individually which is significant and south because it shows. This is not just a us problem. This is a problem that we all need to focus on and take seriously saw. So i do think this is foundational for us to do anything else. Now and i think we probably would have to take further actions to actually change china's calculus but getting this out. They're making it clear that the us government has found this and has high confidence in this and and getting these other partners and allies to similarly. Come out. I think is very strong. So what kind of message does it send to china to signal more assertive shift by the. Us would try to change. its calculus. yeah. I absolutely shows sort of. Us nassir shows. The us is not acting alone which is always difficult because lots of countries have financial and other dependencies on china. So it makes it very significant. They came out with these countries. Came out with these statements. We also say that we we take this seriously. This is unacceptable conduct and that we're going to take action so the first action is this kind of public attribution public calling out. But that as i said is not sufficient. We're gonna probably have to take other actions to convince china to not do this. So i i do think there's a glide path here if we have sustained is not a light switch you not gonna change it overnight but you need to stain pressure needed to be willing to use your tools like economic sanctions and other tools to reinforce these points this is not something we believe is acceptable Well interestingly there were no sanctions put on china today. sanctions were put on russia for its past lead role in cybercrimes. Why the difference. Well you know it's interesting. I i think that probably sanctions related. This but you know this could be the first step getting all these to agree Had to take some time my guest is the us was ready to announce it's probably a while ago but felt it was important to gather these these other countries to do jointly with us. And i think that is important. But that doesn't mean the sanctions and other activities are not going to be forthcoming. I think this is step. One this is the foundational step. But certainly i i. You know. I think those have to happen. I expect they will happen. But we'll see chris. Painter is an expert on cyberwarfare. Was the top cyber diplomat during the obama administration. Thanks for joining us today. Chris appreciate your time happening with you. Today you're listening to the world after twenty years at guantanamo bay prisoner goes home to morocco. The biden white house picks up where obama left off aiming to shut down gitmo. Just thirty nine detainees remained behind the only way to close born. Tano is to move guantanamo united states which is a controversial debate. The future of gitmo still ahead here on the world. I'm marco werman. This is the world. We're co production of gbh. Boston npr ex. For three decades sudan in east africa was ruled by one man omar al-bashir until the two thousand nineteen popular uprising. That ousted him now. Two years after the end of year's rain sudan is still a country in transition and a big question lingers for the future of that nation what role should religion play in politics. Today we have. The first in a series of stories about religion in sudan reported by the world's africa correspondent alina condie who joins me now on the line. So give us some reason history here. Why issues around. The separation of religion and st lucie largest sedan. Right now well to answer that question. I have to take you back about thirty years ago to nineteen eighty nine Because that was the year one then military officer omar al-bashir led a successful military q. And then came together with the national islamic front party and the muslim brotherhood heralded. This new period and sudan that Essentially islamicize to country. It saw this big islamic revolution To essentially bring religion and the state and society together and not impacted all facets of life and so when bashir's ousted himself in a different q after nationwide protests in two thousand nineteen. As you mentioned this put into question. Okay looking forward for sudan. How much of the past thirty years will be uprooted and what will remain the same. So this question impacts so many different areas of life in sudan And it's constantly coming up in different ways. So what did all that mean for. Ordinary people in sudan like how did islamic law come to play out in people's lives on a day-to-day basis. Well when this period of his llamas of the country started at impacted all parts of life from the economy to the education system to the banking system All of those began to be impacted by This particular religious ideology So everyone was was impacted in different ways There are also these kind of public order. Laws that vaguely talked about morality and kind of what. It means to be a good religious person and we're kind of seen as this excuse to crackdown on sudanese people And so overall the as long as as the country had big ramifications for everyone mostly because sudan as diverse country Especially religiously you have Muslims from different groups. You have christians. Jews who follow traditional african believes so this many sudanese at odds with the government so share was overthrown in two thousand nineteen as sudan. Today looks at these questions about religion and nationalism. What is the current government there. What does it look like. After the two thousand nineteen revolution military leaders came together with members of the political opposition form. This transitional government tasked with steering the country towards these democratic elections And a couple years and at the head of this government is civilian prime minister abdullah ham duck who's leading the country And together they all represent very different ideologies different ambitions different agendas for the government Who don't only agree about this question of religion and state So when i set out to report and sudan. I really wanted to get a sense of what ordinary sudanese people think on this issue so on a very hot friday afternoon i went to a wrestling match. Which is popular past high in khartoum and symbolic place dot really taps into this question of religion and state hundreds of fans turn out to watch athletes wrestle each other to the ground and an open field. This traditional style of wrestling comes from the nuba mountains in the southern part of the country that the sport has become popular across sudan people crowd around the winners cheering them on throwing money out them for years people from the nuba mountains many of them. Christians were an armed conflict with sudan's government but the ousting of omar el-bashir has brought a chance for peace. The new transitional government in khartoum is negotiating with rebels from the nuba mountains and their reviving an old debate about secularism the separation between religion and state. I asked mansour deluded about this. He's a newborn wrestler and says secularism is a good thing leeann dining outstanding honor. Those people from the central government for thirty years in the name of religion and the name of islam says the would who's muslim himself but they've been lying to the sudanese people he says. Now we need secularism so we can get away from matt nonsense by nonsense. He's referring to the way beshir's government waged war against people in the south in the name of islam for many sudanese in the nuba mountains. The issue of secular government is personal says professor juma kunda tacoma he's a christian from the nuba mountains and until recently he was an official peace adviser for the prime minister above home from the number montana where i came from the issue of the separation of religion estate. It's not something that is for legia. Nana this is something printed in their mind and they all see all the people that have been killed bombarded. They were actually victimized under the name of islam earlier this year. The government in khartoum signed a deal with the main rebel group nuba and declared that sudan had no state religion at least in principle. That is a major shift from the mindset of the former government says professor komi the state of mind of the the majority are muslims for that and therefore the governor system should be biz business. Lum is something which is dominating most of the political parties in the country but the climax of this was under the superior. Jim ncp or national congress party under bashir pushed a strict islamic vision for sudan. Which is a diverse country. Both religiously and ethnically that komi says had major consequences ten years ago when christians and the south declared independence one of the main reason that actually separate the country. The south sudan was the unwillingness of the previous regime to repeal sharia law from the country that would have actually saved the unit of the many people from new about sater's risk of other parts of the country breaking away if sudan is not able to take religious ideology out of government affairs but even now comex says secularism means a provocative and emotional concept for many sudanese. The meaning of secular has been corrupted in the sudanese politics because it is equated to antillean movement at the grand mosque and downtown khartoum. Dozens of worshippers are finishing up their evening. Prayers sadique mohammed. Ali is a businessman. Who praise here. That's not lose long delo four hotel. Sudanese people are muslim. Says ali will die to protect islam. If the former government made some mistakes all he tells me the new one should correct them but sudan can never get rid of religion altogether money but charlotte who um within sudan refuses. Secularism ali says in this transitional government was not elected which is true. The current government is supposed to pave the way for elections in a few years. People like ali say that big questions like the separation of religion and state must be decided by elected leader professor hassan el haj-ali mad agrees. He's a political scientist at the university of khartoum. Any issue regarding the future direction of the of the country should be lift to government mandated by the people hasaan argues. The transitional government is heading down slippery slope by trying to quote. dis llamas. is the country. Islamic principles profoundly influenced the way sudan's economy law and government all work. Hassan says so creating a secular system has major implications going to see a complete overhaul of our education system over judicial system or economic system has gone warns that if the government makes too many changes on social issues. they've risk backlash from religious conservatives. Because this is like you're trying to impose before from above bike. The government trying to make social engineering from in other words controversial issues about identity and religion though should wait but the current government has already started making big changes. Its recently introduced. Alternatives to islamic banking created a council to review family laws that are rooted and sharia law and making major reforms in its education system. We'll hear more about that tomorrow for the world. i'm holy mickey condie are tomb sudan. Sacred nation is our ongoing series about religion and nationalism around the globe with funding from the henry. Lewis foundation explore the series online at the world dot org slash sacred nation. Thirty nine prisoners remain the guantanamo bay detention camp after one man abdelatif. Nassir was sent home today to morocco. He was a commander in weapons trainer for the taliban in afghanistan but was never charged with a crime during his. Nearly twenty years of incarceration at guantanamo nassir is now in the hands of moroccan authorities. He's the first prisoner. That president biden is transferred out of gitmo and each remaining case poses questions about the future of the camp ever since the military prison was bill. Carol rosenberg is reported on deeply. She's with the new york times carol. Let's begin with today's news. What could this transformation for. The remaining thirty nine detainees at guantanamo. So first of all it shows that the binding administration is back in the business of trying to get people out and close the detention center. Which is the unfinished business of the obama. Administration your question about the existence of the base. I mean there's been a debate. Questions asked with each administration since the george w bush about whether or if the gitmo prison would be shut down. What does this tell you and just your own understanding having reported on the facility for so long that they seem to be adopting the obama playbook which is figure out how to get the people they can. And then i mean. They've made clear they're going to try to work with congress on trying to figure out the solution for the people they can't or won't send to third countries. You know mark. The only way to close guantanamo is to move guantanamo. The united states is to have a detention style setting for the folks they will not release the convicts or the people they want to put on trial and perhaps some people they think are dangerous and pick them up and move them to a. Us setting came to call it. Quintana north but congress has blocked that they refused to allow any of those men to be relocated to the united states for any reason not for trial not for detention not for medical treatment. So it's a big big climb for this administration to find the allies in congress to allow them to move however many dozens dozen to some sort of secure setting the united states. Is this a partisan issue in politics again. Get in the way of moving to the us. It seems to be kind of red meat in campaign season to Accuse anyone who's willing to come up with an alternative to guantanamo two accused of being soft on terror. That's sort of the line but there's no suggestion that these men will be released in the united states. The ideas that they would be tried convicted or plead guilty and put in maximum security south settings. So carol you recently returned to guantanamo bay after the pandemic kept you away for five hundred days. Was that the longest period of time. You've not been on assignment there since it opened in two thousand two. What did you see what was different. I spent well over a thousand nights at guantanamo across the years. And i've never been away for you. Know the equivalent of a full calendar year. Plus and what. I was really struck. Me marco. is that virtually every single person who works at the prison and all of the leadership at the base has turned over Came down with a group of reporters and a group of lawyers for the first hearing an and a case involving a man accused of being an al qaeda commander and the only people who knew what the last hearing looked like a couple of years ago. Where the prisoner. The press and the lawyers all the soldiers. Even the judge were new case. There's a lot. There's a lot to be learned by the new people who are going to be handling this procedures. Your ties reporter. Carol rosenberg has written about guantanamo bay. Since the detention camp was built in two thousand and two carol. Thanks very much for joining us. Oh it's my pleasure. Mark the future for a major obama era immigration policy is now endowed daca deferred action for childhood arrivals protect certain undocumented immigrants from deportation people who came to the us children it also provides them with a work permit but last week a federal judge in texas rule that the program is unconstitutional. The world's monica campbell's here to tell us what this means for people in the program and what this means for the administration of joe biden meeting his immigration campaign promises. Monica first of all. Who does this ruling effect and not effect at least for now. This ruling affects anybody who wants to be a part of the program and that's tens of thousands of people who have applied to be in the daca program since the start of the year more or less and it does not affect immediately at least people who are currently in the program or her looking to renew their status within the program. So you can turn in your application but immigration officials are blocked from moving forward on it. Who exactly wants to end the daca program. Monica people who are against offering any sort of path citizenship offering a larger reform to the millions of undocumented people in the united states that they see this as kind of opening the door and not just two people here in the us but perhaps to the world that this will signal that more people can come into the united states and eventually get papers. This is seen as kind of a slippery slope test. Daca has long been that the support for that remain strong and powerful especially in places like texas and a lot of other republican led states. That support this court ruling so the administration is expected to appeal but after that. What are the possible scenarios. I mean could this go to the supreme court has daca has in the past. It absolutely could and i spoke to people who have been defending daca at the supreme court out the table. They are offering some blunt truth. They're saying that. This judge in texas the district court. Judge texas's is ruling. Could very well pass all the way up to the supreme court and that we know that the supreme court is a more conservative. One right now. I spoke with louis. Cortes romero he is one of the immigration lawyers. Who's been right up in front defending daca. He's in seattle. He said that he is now really looking for a more permanent. Fix hoping that congress can step in and try and rescue the program. We know that collectively we can move mountains and make things happen and we've done it in the past and we just need to make sure that we stick together so that we can do it now and what they're banking on right now is that congress will step and perhaps through the budget reconciliation process. And that you may see a pathway to citizenship in a more permanent fix for dhaka and perhaps other undocumented immigrants rolled into that process and we'll see very unsure uncertain process. Ed right as you said that may happen. So what have you heard from. People most affected by the latest news. People who want in the daca program are they expressing concern about what this could suggest more widely about how biden will deal with what many see as a broken immigration system. There's a ton of concern. We spoke with one young woman in virginia. She's nineteen years old carla margallo dorado and she applied for the daca program about six months ago. She's originally from. Bolivia came to the united states when she was two years old now. Her future in the us is uncertain. The florist dropping out with a chance for papers the chance to work to be eligible for in state tuition loans in a country that she's been in for most of her life. Try to step into our shoes because we are really hired emotionally from from working so hard all the time and having to justify our existence having just by our livelihood. It's hard yeah. I also spoke with people hoping for dhaka who have. Us citizen children. Many of the people were talking about are in their twenties and well into their thirties. They want change. So there'll be a lot of organizing around this especially considering it was part of biden's campaign promise the world's immigration editor monica campbell. Thanks very much for this. Update you're welcome. Lithuania one of the baltic states is seen sudden increase of migrants from iraq. The lithuanian government wants baghdad. To do something about this. But it's not as simple as iraq changing its migration policies. The influx of iraqi migrants has a lot to do with a dispute between. Lithuania is next door neighbour. Belarus and the european union. Bellarusse is accused of sending iraqi migrants into europe as a form of political payback reporter. Rebecca callard report from northern iraq about the people caught in the middle of a political spat in europe in his barber shop in the sem camp in northern iraq. Suba dune has a steady stream of customers. He trims beards and cuts hair for the displaced. Disease live here but in the past two months. He's been hearing about something new from his clientele of mostly young men tomorrow but a rooster. They've been talking about belarus. The eastern european country now eu sanctions over human rights abuses yet puska. But then in on showtime like maybe maybe twenty of my clients customers. They have gun for belarus last month belarus. Us it's fighter. Jets fake terror threat to force a passenger flight enroute from greece. Lithuania to lend in belarus authorities arrested abella belorussian opposition journalists. Who was on board. It was an audacious move that escalated political tensions between belarus and the eu. Nobody here cares about that. But what they do care about. Is that belarus now allows visa free entry for iraqis and seventy other nationalities and that belarus has a four hundred mile long mostly unmonitored border with lithuania in eu member-state. In the last month more than a thousand migrants and asylum-seekers have crossed that border compared with just eighty one caught in all of two thousand twenty speaking to turkey state broadcaster last week. Lithuania's foreign minister gabriella lens. Burgas accused belarus helping the migrants spend few days in minsk in Government owned hotels on apartments and then they are by buses. They transported to the border shown transit points given instructions on what to say how to act when authorities border guts. Most of those crossing were iraqi and many of them were from me rocks. Ucd minority other twenty-three-year-old ibrahim-khalil sits down in stock dunes. Barbara chair and tells me the harrowing story of how. He narrowly escaped death in two thousand fourteen. That's when isis took over his village instant jar. The militants rounded up yazidi residents and separated the men from the women and children holy says. He was held in a mosque with about two dozen other men in home jay in the night. The there's an airstrike into the most. So it became open on earth on. They run away. They managed to run away. He says he never saw most of the women again. Seven years later. Many cd's from sanjar are still living intense. The few services and job prospects and many say they will never feel safe in iraq again really middle charging living in very. 'bout live in the tens on this in here so halil met with a smuggler. Who promised he could get him to germany through belarus. Nobody here wants to stay long term in lithuania. He says they all want to move on to wealthier. Eu states hundred homeless. But we want to go country which is like germany outside the barbershop. Kids from the camp play in the dusty rose between the tents after being here so long. Some of the families have set up small gardens with vines growing up the side of the plastic sheets that are there walls. it's a bit of protection from the hundred plus degree heat in the winter. Temperatures can drop below freezing yasser. Qatar stands next to a line of freshly hung laundry. I always send my friends. But i want to leave this country on. All of my friends are like me because they don't see the light here in iraq across the country iraqis are facing a lack of jobs. Water and electricity security is a concern. Also with rival militias competing for influence iraqis from all ethnic and religious groups are trying to get to europe through minsk but iraq's yazidi minority feel particularly vulnerable. They say they were abandoned by iraq's national army and kurdish peshmerga forces when isis showed up in two thousand fourteen and even now with isis defeated. They don't trust iraq security forces. You know we are a small minority on. We cannot live there live here on the. We were afraid of our future here. We always want to To leave this country and to live in peace in a in a broad it's Impossible to to feel safe year. How people here don't want to talk about the role of soon smugglers. But i speak with one kurdish iraqi. Who says his brother left earlier this month he had graduated from university and then spent two years unable to get a job. So we met with trafficker has many when he goes to the place. Says like arrive at this. This guy the this brother here. He's going to the menaces okay. he's driving now. He says the family pooled their money and went into debt to help his brother get out. It was a better investment than his brothers college degree. he says. back in the barbershop. Police says the smuggler. He met wanted fifteen thousand dollars to get into germany through belarus. It would take him years to save that kind of money. Leila's also the only person i meet here who is really aware of the political dispute between belarus and the eu. Because they love. So that's right now is like doesn't doesn't catch a people who tried to go so it's just like open to the board of it. The eu has sent more border guards to lithuania and is putting up razor-wire along the frontier with belarus to try to physically stop the flow of people for iraqis already. In lithuania. they're fate is unclear. Lithuania's foreign minister is calling on iraq's government to take them back and to cut commercial flights to belarus. We are not calling it a refugee crisis. We're calling hybrid attack but here in the camps of northern iraq. Plenty of people are as desperate as ever to find out of the country for the world. I'm rebecca callard. Sdn camp in northern iraq. The world comes to you from the non and bill harris studio. Gbh in boston you can find us online anytime at the world dot org. I'm marco werman. Thanks for being here. We'll see again tomorrow.