4 Episode results for "Lindsay Jones Lindsay"

Lindsay Jones & Katherine Terrell talk AFC

The Bill Barnwell Show

1:10:25 hr | 1 year ago

Lindsay Jones & Katherine Terrell talk AFC

"The Bill Barnwell show is presented by ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Barnwell show. Bill Barnwell ESPN. We are here on Thursday, November fifteenth two thousand eighteen a little later, we're going to talk with Catherine trail about the AFC north including the chances of Marvin Lewis, and John harbach keeping their jobs in Cincinnati and Baltimore respectively, but first we're gonna talk some AFC west and joining us do that as frequent contributor to the show. It is the athletes Lindsay Jones Lindsay. How are you? I'm good. How are you doing bell? I am good. I am very intrigued by the game. It is coming up on Monday night. And granted not just saying that because an ESPN employees and this is a good game on Monday night football, which you might say has not always been the case this season. You may have had a pretty mediocre game last week. But this week things are a lot better chiefs. And Rams it was supposed to be in Mexico City. It is going to be instead in Los Angeles, California. Which is why Lindsey you find yourself in Colorado this week your hometown or your home, I should say with the Rams. Yes, I'm done Colorado Springs. The the Rams came out here on Monday thinking that they would spend a week training altitude and then fly to Mexico City, which is at about eight thousand feet elevation and the air force academy here in Colorado Springs is about seventy five hundred feet, so even higher elevation than Denver is actually. But instead they thought their game was moving back to Los Angeles. But the Rams decided to stay here. They're just in there still so much upheaval back in may. And specifically the part of Los Angeles where the Rams train up in Thousand Oaks where they still have people from the organization or still displaced from their homes a lot they had already mid range mints players families to come out here in Colorado. So they're just bending the entire week here at in Colorado Springs practicing at the air force academy. And then they're going to go back to LA for what hopefully could be the game of the year. Very very, very excited should be awesome. I mean, the first time in footballs and back in LA since like nineteen eighty five. So yeah, the should be really fun. I mean, it's a weird going. Like the week long vacation that you were expecting or not expecting at the same time for the Rams. But I mean, this is a team that will get to the chiefs element of this in a second. But a team that you know, certainly, of course with the Cooper Cup injury is dealing with some adversity some changes on the offense of side of the football. Do you think they're going to be able to sort of weather that you think it's going to be a situation where maybe we're we're not appreciating how much coober Cup really adds to the Rams offense. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the important things about Hooper. It's not just that he's a very good receiver on third down. And I think it's just the the relationship has Jared Goff that they've built together over the last couple years. I mean almost immediately started twenty seventeen I mean Cooper became Jared Goff guy. I mean, he was that security blanket printing, they're very close friends away from the field. So he's just that guy that you know, when everything else if everything else breaks down, and that doesn't happen that often Sean McVay offense. But he was just the guy that. Gough is just so comfortable with. But I think the good news. If you're the Rams and the situation, and there's there's no good news losing Cooper cop, obviously. But this is the first time that they'll have to play without him this year. They lost him for a few weeks after he suffered the injury back in early October. So they they know what their offense will look like without him. So it's not like they're going into the game of the year. All of a sudden, you know, removing most important piece for the first time. So and I think you know, I said most important piece I think the most important pieces Todd Gurley. No, I think they have a lot of mechanisms to make up for the loss of Cooper Cup. But you know, I don't I don't want to minimize it. But I think if there's any team that is set up to lose your favorite favorite wide receiver. There's probably a team like the Rams who has Brandin cooks who has you know, cause some emerging tight ends. I think we might see them do more to tight ends now. And then obviously of tug early who is going to be able to catch a lot of passes could be you know, really good weapon in the passing game as well. And a lot of other offenses are not equipped the way the Rams are to. Up for that sort of loss. You know, I'm happy you brought that up Lindsey 'cause I was going to ask you about Todd Gurley in about this Rams game plan against the chiefs. Now, we know when teams are playing the Rams typically or they're playing the chiefs the most logical game plan, and we saw this with the Seahawks last week against the Rams was you wanna run the football. You want to chew much clock as possible wanna keep your defense and your pass rush fresh and wanna keep a possibly dominant passing attack on the sidelines. So that would be a logical thing for either of these teams to do in this game where the total in Vegas is sixty three and a half points, which I believe is the. Largest total in at least modern recorded history. There might be a line in the past that was higher, but I have not seen any line that was higher than that that anyone has any evidence of. So let's say sixty three and a half is the highest total in recent football history. Do you think either of these teams are going to change their strategy and triumph play more conservatively in trying on the ball more to try and keep the other teams offense on the sidelines? And if you do which of these two teams, do you think it's more likely to sort of go after that strategy? Yeah. Well, Fisher thing because we talk about how both of these teams are passing game. It's a quarterback. But the a of both of these teams really good running teams and. A lot of times they are they can be very much built around their running backs and cream hunt. Let the NFL rushing last year and the games when sometimes the chiefs are at their best. It's the game. So they can keep feeding Kareem hunt, and he can have those wild games. And what's so fun? I think about this matchup is that both teams can beat you so twice. They can beat running the ball. They can beat you with your running game gets eliminated and they have to pass. So you know, I think both teams are going to be very committed to running the ball. I mean, it's just so much critical piece of their identities. And these are the best pass catching running backs in the in the league as well. So I think it's it's gonna I think both teams are going to want to run the ball. Really? Well, and I think the the other interesting thing neither of these defenses are particularly good at renting the run. So. You know, both teams could be effective at doing it. And what's so crazy when you watch how teams try to defend the rounds or tied to defend the chiefs, isn't it? Do you wanna try to? I remember watching the Broncos against the Rams a couple of weeks ago month and. The Broncos defense played about the best anybody has played against the Rams, and they did so saying we're gonna shut down the passing game. And we're gonna make Todd Gurley beat us. Well, that's not a not a great gamble. I mean, it's not like you're asking, you know, Chris ivory, you know, very average mediocre running back. I'm sorry. Because I really, but I don't know why just picked him out. But look this girly. I mean, this is a guy who is legitimately an MVP candidate to beat you. And I think the the Rams offense or the Rams defense if they say, okay, we're gonna try to really, you know, focus on stopping stopping tyreek hill and Travis Kelsey. And we'll dare rain hunts at us. Well, that's not really a great proposition either. Absolutely. And I mean, it's it's really fascinating to me because I think you know, you'll get that total sixty three and a half points. I'm inclined to say it's going to go under just because it's such a huge total because it would make sense for both. These teams of trion slow down the game or trained. Slid on the game, but like the sort on the plays and not play aggressively, and and sort of use the the running game they have to give you the team's offense off the field. But like the same time and also like they could score twenty eight points in in a matter of three or four minutes. What's interesting to me? Is that for the season? We were looking at the chiefs. I think we would have said, hey, this defense is not going to be very good bye told you that Barry was not going to be playing come. We ten headed play the snap all year because of heel injury. You'd be like, oh that she's defense is going to be a mess. We kind of figured the Rams defense was going to be good this defense that last year. It was good. It was I think in the top six if I'm not mistaken on the field up now in Devia way. At by the end of the year, there were sixty s in DVD way this year, and that's category. They are twentieth. In DVD. This defense has not been very effective. And so, of course, you covered Wade Phillips for your around we pump certainly in the Denver days. And I'm are you, sir? Surprised that he hasn't figured out how to make this defense work, or is it just a thing where because they made so many changes, you kind of have to hope it just you know, coalesce incomes together during the second half of the season. Yeah. Anything part of it is personnel. I think they miss a key. But to leave a lot. I mean, we I think the markets peers edition got a lot more headlines back when it happened in the in the spring, just because I'm honestly, I'm not even sure why because maybe his age or the number pick sixties had recently. But in kind of the baggage that came with him in terms of his interactions with the coaching stuff that he played for dating back in time college, but keep Toledo was really the the more important piece there in terms of on a play to play basis. I mean, the thing about Marcus Peters is that he will he will make some spectacular stops. And he will but he doing so he gambled a lot and he can be beaten a lot more easily than to leave does to lead as like a true shutdown corner on every single play. And they really really missed. That presence and Marcus Peters play has suffered because of it and recently and he's coming off really rough couple really restrictive games. And so they're going to need more from him. But I think one of the things we've seen this from Wade Phillips defensive before where you know, the the most amazing thing about over. The course of his career is defensive coordinator is that his track record with the first year that he comes into place is really impressive the way he's able to turn around and defense in a single season is really really incredible. But then the second season there tends to be a drop off. It's certainly happened in Denver. They they won the Super Bowl his first years of quarterback and that and then the defense kind of a step back, then I'm here. I don't know if that means that, you know, posing offenses are kind of catching up to it. But his greatest impact tends to happen into his first year. He comes in and gets to kind of install his defensive rush. And you know, I honestly wish I knew exactly why that was so there was kind of a step back. But yeah, I mean, I it's been surprised. That they haven't been as good. But like, I I think the Peter's Peter's playing without Leib has been a really big part of that. And then the fact that they have not had consistent edge pressure. And those are really the two most important pieces to await Philip's defense is the outside pressure. And then a pair of quarterbacks that can really play on coverage. And we just haven't seen that consistently enough from them. So I think that's really really where it comes down to because Aaron Donald is gonna wreck just about every game. He plays then. But if you're not getting the help on the edges and then on the back end. That's there's only there's kind of a limit house after that can be absolutely when you think about the chiefs respective in this game if you were like like I'm thinking of independence day, and like the the weak spot in the what the ship I guess the ship that Randy Quaid flew into if there's a weak spot in this chiefs offense, unfortunately for them happens to be directly across from where. Aaron Donald the dumb consume lineup which is defensive tackle. You look at this chiefs offense Austin reader is playing center, and you widely is playing right guard. Their information Morris who's been out with a cousin and Lawrence divinatory. The doctor who is on injured reserve, Cowan Irving has played very well. They're left guard former Browns cast off, but the interior of this offensive line. You would have to figure is sort of the the part that way has to be salivating over attacking in this game plan come Monday night now. Oh, I'm -solutely. And you know, I think we've seen from around. He's he's very mobile. He doesn't give himself enough credit. You know, I don't I don't think anybody's gonna compare his like forty time to you know, my Jackson's this point. But he if we actually had a forty time for the more Jackson, totally different story. Sorry for handed, then but he is remarkably mobile and very adept to getting out of the pocket throwing on the run, but he has not faced interior. Line like this. And I think we have seen a little bit. But he can't get flustered. If you're chasing him a lot and hitting him a lot especially early in games. You know? He hasn't handled the pressure. Look what this has twelve start gonna make. I mean, so that's that's to be expected for quarterback of his kind of age and experience. So yeah, I mean, I think they're going to get to him and disrupt that offensive game plan that Andy Reid is creating right now. Yeah, really really starts with you know, Aaron Donald and hitting him. And you know, what he's shown what Patrick Mahomes a show, and you know, a little bit about Russell where he's able to get out. He's able to continue making plays even while he's under pressure. But he might have to do that a lot given what the Rams are going to present on that defensive line. Even if it's not coming necessarily from the edges, right? The tangent unit hoop houses for tencent's here on the show. I will say that much. So I'm going to ask you about a totally different tangent. Patrick Mahomes today. Stories have come out number one Patrick Mahomes enjoys catch up on his stake. And then perhaps even worse, Patrick Mahomes enjoys ketchup. On his MAC and cheese. Now, you are you are the mother of a small child. So I'm assuming you've seen some you've seen some food some food combinations. That may adults may not find quite as thrilling. But this is change the way you view, Patrick Mahomes. I mean entirely I mean, he's. No. Doesn't make me wanna go out to dinner with them necessarily tend to pick the restaurants. But I wouldn't like slam by you know, my knocking down in storm out of the restaurant. I was having dinner with them any ordered. He or put that catch on his MAC and cheese. I would probably ask him what the heck was going on. But, you know, look, she's very young. I think a lot of us. You know, when we were in college, probably eight didn't have the eight some weird stuff didn't have specific aided a pallet. So, you know, look, he's gonna have already has a lot of money. He's going to have a lot of money pretty soon. Hopefully can be exposed to some better dining biz. I mean, hopefully, he's not like dousing has, you know, Jack, stack are Oklahoma. Joe's barbecue and catch up there in the city. Hopefully, there's some people who are showing him the right way to you know, to eat his barbecue in Kansas City. I'm sure Andy Reid could give him give him some pointers but questionable. But I love shown from other magazine. He unearth those type of. Cool. Details all the time and the whole steak on catch up on his stake. Thing was just one of those crazy details that it seems like Seth is only able to find you to be clear here when you say you would not run out of the restaurant. Have you had an experience in your life where someone has made a condom choice, and you have run out of restaurants. I know I I haven't. Although I will say I mean, my husband, and I have completely different tastes in like condiments, and you know, like frozen yogurt toppings and flavors. So I'm used to like having you know, the person who I'm dining with I have opposing views to their choices. But you know, it is odd. But I look he's he can make choices, and you know, hopefully, he'll grow to appreciate, you know, just a great like medium, rare steak that doesn't need anything else on it. There was one time. I was living in Boston in college. And seeking college pilots. We got like a like a pizza. Men you on our door. We'd never heard of before. And had like a frozen yogurt section with a list of a hundred toppings and one of the toppings listed was Meatball. It was like twits tricks knickers Meatball. Milky way. And it was like what meet like, and so he calls, and we were like, hey, can we get like a pizza and one Meatball frozen yogurt and the gas? Sure when people frozen yogurt, no problem. And so we were fascinated we had no idea it was going to come and then showed up, and it was like one hundred grand frozen yogurt. Like really like there was like some kind of miscommunication. But I it was so confusing and so distressing to me the Meatball frozen yogurt. So it just came on this. I it was like frozen yogurt and then like maple and a Cup. No. There was no people to be found. It was like I never it. And no Meatball to be spoken of it was very confusing in very very very distressing. But I think we need to get on the case if we could get them to investigate that would be great. I think bathroom should be allowed to eat whatever he likes someone who's been bullied for his dementia or lack thereof online. All right. We'll get back to the rest of the AFC west with Lindsay here in a moment. 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And that is of course, the Denver Broncos playing the Los Angeles chargers and two teams, obviously. Heading that seems like in different directions. The chargers are seven and to look to be really prime for a playoff spot in the AFC. The Broncos clearly not the case for them. Both these teams sort of need to win this game for different reasons is there who do you think would be more upset about a loss here in this game. I think the chargers because I think they're starting to figure out who they really are. I mean, they went on this epic road trip in terms of you know, they went to Ohio, and then they went to London. And then they went to what Seattle and they went to Oakland. I mean, they have been gone for so long that LA probably forgot that they actually had a second team. If they even remember that they had a second team in the first place they've been gone so long that you know. If they come back and lose to Broncos team that they have really dominated over the last three years. I think I think that would just be a real, you know, a big setback towards the team that they're really becoming. And you know, I it's hard to imagine them touching the chief in that division. Although they are they do get to play one more time. I mean, let's if the row at the chiefs somehow lose this week and the chargers win I mean, they're gonna game. And that makes that December thirteen game. It's thirteen game at our hood, even more important, right? I mean, but they're really playing for, you know, certainly, certainly wildcard spot him, and you look around the rest of the AFC, and you know, they're not just like leading kind of that wild card race. I mean, they are like in control of that first mile carts about right now. So you know, I just I think it would be a setback for the chargers if they were to lose to this Broncos team. And I know I've been reading this stuff that's coming out of Denver this week. They had their Byerly classic. And they're talking about how you know. They can. You know show that they're improving and that they need to see a lot of stuff out of their young players, and you know, advance Josephus Thirdly coaching for his job. But. You know, at this point at already feels kind of like, it's a loss. It's a loss season in Denver. And, you know, getting to what you think it's seven and nine or something what does that what does that really do that actually force them to keep Joseph longer? I don't know. I just think I think we're gonna learn a lot more about the chargers and much more excited about the charges at this point on the Broncos actually skipped ahead to my next question. I was gonna ask you from the Broncos perspective thinking about they're three and six record. I mean is there you think a a level of play or a final record or some evidence of something showing over the final seven games that you think would lead them to keep Vance Joseph. I just no matter. What happens they are pretty much going to make a move this off season the matter. What? Yeah. I mean, I guess they, you know, if they pulled together, and they you know, they can go on some sort of Ryan, and, you know, get to get the eight or get into the wild card positioned somehow. I mean, the biggest problem I think that you know, I say from how the Broncos. That they keep making the same mistakes mauve and over and over. They don't look like they're low coach team. They're one of the more penalized teams in the NFL. They have the things that were issues last year that they thought they were gonna fix by you know, out in case keenum into the mix or, you know, making smart changes on the offensive line hasn't really been any better. I mean, they still commit a lot of turnovers. They're they're defense is still regrets. So make bad decisions over and over again. So, you know, I think that's what should be most troubling. If you're John Elway and Joe Ellis. And all the folks that are running the Broncos right now, it's kind of the repeated ineptitude that we're staying out of the Broncos, you luck. If they can if they can make a run, and they show that they fixed everything here after the bye week, and they were kind of talking about that this week. But oh, we got to really, you know, sell scout. And they've got to spend a lotta time focusing on ourselves and refresh and we're healthy. They're getting a rice Raymond supposed to be back. I think they're Stewart or starting safety should be back. They're going to be getting some pieces, but. This isn't a team that over the last couple of years, and certainly not under Vance Joseph that his are actually played well coming out of one of these by week type situations, they certainly have been last year. They were hot going into their by week and twenty seventeen and then came out the next week and just got their butts completely kicked by the giants who are bad team here, and they came out of their mini by earlier this year after that they went against the cardinals on Thursday night and played really poorly the next week. So yeah, I mean, maybe I'm more pessimistic than most people about the Broncos right now. But I just think that they think they really need to be kind of in full on. Let's focus on next year. See what we can get other young guys. Let's learn a lot about all of these guys. And you know, there's a risk they. Yeah. I mean, if they get two seven and nine I mean, that's going to be probably bad enough that it gets Joseph fired but her but not not enough to actually get themselves position for a really high drastic. Yeah. Which at this point, isn't that what you really want? You know? You know, what do you think is the best possible outcome for the the Broncos? Would it be if they just go three and thirteen and lose out and fiery one and just start, you know, realize okay, we have to start a fresher. Like, would it be better if they showed signs of life, and when you know five and five and two over the final seven games and went I mean is it like what's the most appealing outcome for this team? Yeah. And it's tough because you know, you always talk about painting, and, you know, players ever wanna take and their their careers are way too short time, really take, but organizationally you can kind of pink. So, you know, I think maybe best case for the long term, the long term view of the Broncos is that they are there. They end up being bad enough that they decide okay? We have to kind of start over finding new coaching finding new head coach new coaching staff possibly new quarterback. If your draft pick is high enough that you can actually find one that you like in the draft. Although it's not like John LA has shown a lot of giving anybody a lot of confidence that he's gonna drop the right one even raise the chance. Again. But I think we don't think maybe the best case long-term scenarios that they finish. Yeah. I mean six and ten maybe five and eleven again. But that you're also getting a lot of play out of your young guys. I think they finally have a rookie class with actually producing, and, you know, like get Portland Sutton and day, Sean Hamilton a lot of reps. Now that now that Maria's Thomas has gone let those guys kind of really grow into their roles that are going to be their future their number one. And number two receivers, you know, see what you can do with Bradley Chubb, you know, experiment with all sorts of different packages and ways that you can let him go and chase the rookie sack record. You know, get see if you can get more growth out of Philip Lindsay and rice Freeman because those are the guys that you're going to be building around long. It's not, you know, as as much as I enjoyed covering some of these guys it's not dome atop Petco, and Chris Harris, and Derek the guys who kind of bring here for the super. Bowl year. Some of those guys were here for the Super Bowl years, but are now thirty an older right in going back to the chargers briefly in terms of how they perform this year, of course, seven to like you said in great shape to make the postseason. Is it fair to stop waiting for them to turn into the chargers who seem to blow every positive opportunity they get they haven't had a game. Like that this year? They're seven to their losses are to the chiefs into the Rams were maybe the two best teams to the three best teams in the league alongside the saints. If they haven't had that game where they blow it with a Utah lead or integrate opportunity and the that raiders game last week. I mean, we'll Brinson was tweeting about it. I felt the same way they looked absolutely flat in the first quarter. They were down three nothing raiders are moving the ball in kind of like it was one of those games. The chargers do lose to to a mediocre team in a situation where they should win. And they didn't they came back and won the game quite comfortably in the long run. But do you still feel that way like they're kind of like waiting to slip on the banana peel, and if you do what do you think it would take to stop worrying about the chargers in that way? Yeah. I think we always going to be waiting. So that just because that's what we've seen for. It's not it hasn't been two or three years. I mean, it's been a very long time that this is what happens with the chargers. And there's always going to be a game that, you know, Philip rivers of going to have that big clunker over game where he's gonna throw four picks, and they're trying to do that's going to happen. It's been I I suppose encouraging that even as their kicker issues persisted through September October. They didn't lose a game. Because of that they where we're last year there were they would have been playoff last year. They had had a more competent kicking situation through or the first half of the season. And that's not going to keep them out of the postseason this year. Knock on everything Bagley Bagley kid badgley. Phase all same things to be the guy that they're going to be able to stick with. They did it a game too late. I think there's you see some little things in their teen and Allen has thrown a fit here. They're they seem to have gotten at rectified. But yeah, I mean, I think the thing that I'm just holding out to see with the chargers. Is it's not this week. It's not even necessarily next week. It's what's going to happen when they play the chiefs because that's really been the the hurdle that they haven't been able to get over. And you know, it's been years. I mean, I think I mentioned that the chargers have owned the Broncos for the last three or four years, but the same exact thing has happened. The chiefs just beat the chargers over and over and over again, and it's happened in LA. It's happened in San Diego. And it certainly has happened at aero had stadium in Kansas City, which is where that that next game is going to be so until the chargers can put together a really good game against the chiefs. I'm gonna still not be not not be pencilling them in for a long playoff run. I'm certainly gonna. I would be shocked if they don't make the playoffs at this point especially looking at kind of but mediocrity of a lot of the rest of the AFC at this point. But I'm not going to get to. I'm not gonna look too far ahead. But in that they can win a big road game in January until I see them go into Arrowhead and went into Semper. Yeah. I mean, there are three road games. After even in December are Steelers chiefs and Broncos. So the breath ac- might not be is pressing it's week seven team. But Steelers and chiefs two teams that they might see in the postseason. I don't know if they have Joey Bosa back I wouldn't count on them winning. But they've been really good purpose for interceptions all season. So like he hasn't had that. I it it still I still think worried about having every single week. But I don't know. I don't know what's gonna take for me to stop being worried. And I still like every week. I'm kind of expecting through the week where they they do collapse in the could happen in this Broncos game. Who knows the Broncos have impressive performances against the Rams on defense. Could sudenly force that against the chargers, we should finish up talking about the Oakland Raiders who again are not. The specially good this year to might holiday. No, they're one eight very under reported story here. The writers are not doing well. In terms of the rest of their sees gonna pay with the guards to the Broncos is the best case scenario that they continue to be terrible. They finish one fifteen two and fourteen and they do end up just finishing with the first overall pick in the draft, or do you think it would be good? If Jon Gruden actually showed some ability to coach some of these younger players into competent performers, and they went for and twelve ended up at the fourth myth. Go for the rest of the way, just burn the whole thing down. I mean, it's so clear that Gruden is focused on twenty nineteen and then especially twenty twenty. But you know, if you if so many of your moves were all about acquiring draft capital first round picks. Make those the best picks that you can get at this point. Because they what are you gonna try to do? It's not like you're trying to you know, save some sort of business opportunity. You know, save face in your home market and get your fans excited, you know, building towards building towards Las Vegas is all about whatever your team is going to be in twenty twenty. And there is very little about this team in twenty teen that's going to be applicable to twenty twenty. So it's not like, you know, their fans sitting there in Las Vegas going over there bad right now. No if you're a Las Vegas raiders fan. It's those people exist if you are hitting me up, I would like to meet you if those people exist, they don't they don't care what the twenty eight teen raiders look like they care about. Who are Joe who are those draft picks going to be? Yeah. A lot of the number one overall pick and how many other high picks that they could possibly get. So. Yeah, I mean, it's just a mess there. So clearly moving beyond this season. And I guess it's just figure out what their cars feature is. That's the other. That's the other big question. Right. There is do you want him to play well show bore signs of life and show that he's a better fit for whatever. Jon Gruden is trying to do on offense. I guess maybe wanna see a little bit of that just to get some clarity about what their quarterback future is. But yeah, I just think this is a, you know, if you're a raider fan, I'm sorry. So rob, you're losing your. I mean, the just just don't even try to win any more games. That's what I was going to finish basking you. I mean, do you think Derek Carr is playing for his job his future with the raiders twenty nineteen over the final seven weeks of the season? Yeah. I think so I mean when you look at the how they could get out from his contract. I he asked to be when he looks around. And sees the the really the guys that he kind of came in with and grew up with that were similar dodger is he was being gone, you know, because of contract reasons or. Lack of a relationship with John or whatever the case might be. I mean, I guess the best thing going for him right now that his agent isn't Joel Siegal. Did you see that interview that Mark Davis gave no last week where he basically he talked to poems? Cheers of ESPN the raiders beat reporter. And he basically said that you know, they knew that since March super the same agent as Khalil now in right? Well, they knew what was coming. So let's just deal now, and it's just really setting up a really bad precedent for any teams that wanna play hardball. With the raiders in the future. But yeah, I mean, I think he has certainly playing for his job. And I would not for no matter how many assurances or you know. Gruden and Mark Davis or regimen Kendy gives about Jarrett car being there guy, if your air car, you cannot feel you should not feel comfortable, and you know, he might wanna have a realtor handy. Just in case. Yeah. Not really for people to lose their job. But it just seems like it's they're bringing the whole thing down. Derek Carr is not going to be in the building as Derek Carr. Play you play for your job. Maybe we're going to be the guy that they're gonna move to Las Vegas with. And they'll finally replace those billboards that we've talked about and put your face on him instead of John gruden's. But look if their car gets cut next season there are going to be four or five teams at least that are backing up attractive signed him. I mean, he's not going to be unemployed very long. There's he's definitely well respected off around the league that if if the raiders do decide to move on he will end up, I think probably a probably a better long-term situation than a complete rebuild and moving cities. So I'm gonna I'm gonna pose the same question to Catherine at the end of the next segment when it comes to the most prominent free agent from the AFC north which is living on bell. What about the what if Dr Carr does leave the Oakland Raiders in twenty? Eighteen which which team do you think their car is lining up for in week one of twenty nineteen? Ooh, that's a good. I mean, there's there's several who clearly need a quarterback in the Jacksonville Jaguars. Definitely need a new starting quarterback. I think the Denver Broncos are going to need a new starting quarterback. And that would be a really fun way to revive the Broncos raiders rivalry that has kind of gone kind of a passive over the last several years, and that would be as far the storyline. That would be incredible. And I think we all know that John woo much rather sign a free agent quarterback and actually dropping. So that would be a storyline storytelling perspective. That would be fantastic. It's not out of the question. Totally possible. Totally plausible. Well Jones, I was a pleasure to have you on the show people want to check out more of your work. Where can they go ahead and do so? Yeah. The athletic dot com and on Twitter at by Lindsey h Jones and thank you for having ladies night your podcast this week. I really appreciate it Levi's afternoon. We're not recording this in the evening. We're never night. Recording this at some random Pinero bread recording this in a studio. Well, I appreciate you reaching out to female NFL reporters and diversifying the media landscape here as well as as the whitest of white men is nice other people on the show who do not look exactly like me once in a while, I try vest, but Lizzy is a pleasure to have you on. We're gonna go break. Your back with more barn will show here in a moment. You know, what's not smart? The way hiring used to be job sites that overwhelming with tons of wrong resumes. Now, there's a smarter way at ZipRecruiter dot com slash Barnwell. And right now, you can try ZipRecruiter for free. That's right free. Just text burn. Well, the two four six eight ten that's be a R N W E L L two two four six eight ten to try ZipRecruiter for free today. Text Barnwell two four six eight ten texting privacy policy in terms and conditions are posted the WWW dot rules dot US. Message and data rates may apply. All right back here on the Bill Barnwell show. I'm Bill Barnwell, the SPN joy. Joining me now, second half of the show here. We're gonna talk some AFC north with Katherine, Terrell ESPN Katherine. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm good. Now, you are someone who covers the Cincinnati Bengals primarily for us. You cover horse racing as well. Of course, the AFC north as a whole that last time you were on the show. We were sitting here talking about Bengals team that was doing quite well we stewards game was coming up. We were talking about that game. And saying basically that they needed to win that game to be taken seriously since then things have not gone great for the Cincinnati Bengals. So what has happened to closely Bengals to lose their last four games, including that lost Steelers. I guess I wasn't wrong. I said they needed to beat the feelers. And of course, they have one eighteen left, and they blow it so typical big will feelers. It's unbelievable since then it's just been one bad thing after another. I think the defense just took a no side after that game. And they did have a lot of injuries. But injury an excuse for the atrocious defense that followed. I mean, I they I'm trying to remember the order of things I think it was dolphins and Steelers and then chiefs trying to remember who they played next chiefs next book. That's why I don't remember. 'cause it was such a bad game. So you know, they allow five hundred yards to the cheese. They almost blow a big lead to the bus. They get blowed out by the same. I mean, not only blown out us look at that box for what that's awful, you could not believe how awful was they couldn't stop the same at all. It's the same one or score seventy points. They would have so yeah, I'm trying to sum up with happened. But I think really maybe they just the message wasn't getting through from defensive coordinator often to the players. I don't know. But I do know that they've always had at least in training camp. Their weakness has been linebackers and not only earlier linebackers injured. They have forgotten high tackle. So I mean, really if you throw out of problem, they probably have it on that side of the ball right now and Terrel Austin patriots problems with his job this week in the after the fifty one fourteen loss to the saints. Like, you said it. Game or the saints took out drew Brees rest of their guys. Thirty five seven at halftime. Drew Brees forty five seven at the end of the third quarter. After the drew Brees rushing touchdown really the ultimate insult seeing. Drew Brees run a score in even on a snake? Do the Austin firing was deserved. You think it's actually going to improve things with how the Bengals are playing on the defensive side of the ball. I yes. Because the defense was so that is not only just bad. I mean there store Klay bad. I've had the pleasure of covering several historically bad defense is this is actually number three. The two thousand twelve New Orleans Saints who gave up seven thousand forty two yards and NFL record that the Bengals are on pace to break. Then of course, the two thousand fourteen saints who I think a loud a record for half a rating against them resulted. Rob Reiner getting fired every one of those instances the deepens. According coordinator, got fired. Just if if you're looking at it, and you're realizing there's no way to fix this. As we currently are did you have to make change. And I think that they just don't that. There was no way to fix the road. They were going down. I it's a shame. I really like tear often as a person I think the players liked him out the person, he's a hard guy. Now like you feel for him. But the Biggles are in a position where they can still salvage the season. And they're by no means out of it. If they beat the ravens they're doing. Okay. They haven't easy second half schedule. They can make the playoffs, but they had to stop. Leading. So I think that in that sense. It is it is warranted. But I'm wondering how it's gonna look with Marvin Lewis going place now. Well, Marvin Lewis is calling the plays, and he has a friend along the right someone that we talked about earlier this year as someone who might end up making his way to Cincinnati. And that is you Jackson who was fired by the Browns and sparkman brought in by the Bengals based on something. I don't think it's his track record in Cleveland. So why do you think Jackson ended up in Cincinnati again after coaching there? Previously in what role? Do you think? He's actually going to play over there manger of the twenty eighteen season for Cincinnati. Well, almost literally the mid he got fired all the writers and Cincinnati were asking when Hugh Jackson gonna be back. It's actually kind of funny mowing Twitter. I think three of us both the same joke as I want like get ready for Hugh Jackson. I mean, it was just obvious. He and Marvin. Louis are very close. They talk almost every week that's more than I talk to my friends, and I'm what twenty or thirty years thirty years. We're gonna Marvin Lewis age myself. So they're incredibly close they call each other. They say they're like brothers. So it's not surprising that Lewis bring back if you trust the guy more than he trusts, really anybody. And they thing is now that he's calling the defense plays. If he's addressing the deepens. He's a completely missing what's going on offense. And he said that happened to the game against the saints. He had to have his backed her and trying to talk to the defense. He didn't know what was going on the field. So basically Jackson can be down the sideline in kind of help with that. And Lewis made it clear that Jackson was not helping with the offense. Nicki wanted us to know he's not here to meddle and Bill. Lasers offense, which that's a big deal the old that current coordinators there the old ones hovering over shoulder you wanna create. Staps engine. So Lewis said he'd be doing analytics you'd be helping with the defense from an office hop into perspective, and then another voice on the sideline. But you know, really we'll see how it plays out. Because Jackson was like, of course, all the office, whatever you want. So it's kind of seems like no one really knows. What's actually going to be doing? Yeah. I mean when you tell me you Jackson is going to do analytics based on what he did with the Browns. Yeah. A tough sell for me. I don't think pump. Sure you Jackson. Learn some stuff all he was in Cleveland. Yeah. I don't think he's not a smart person. I think you have to be a smart person to get this far in the NFL, not not the first person, I would look towards in terms of analytics in terms of improving my team, but we will see certainly still plenty of the season to go in Cincinnati. The team the Bengals are playing this week in usually important game for their their chances in the playoff race in the AFC or is both ravens at Baltimore this week and their team that is also in some sort of flex with Joe flacco possibly having a hip injury after the Steelers loss and reef nine there were reports even before the game. Actually, there were reports that John Harbaugh his job could be in jeopardy. Heading into the by Ricky has not been fired. He's still there. Joe flacco may not be playing because of that hip injury. So do you think at this point John Harbaugh is coaching for his job over the second half of the season? Given what you're hearing giving the tea leaves about the reports that are leaking out into the media. I would have to think so because the ravens don't operate like that does that no one thinks Marvin Melissa's cooking for his job two different teams. I would think so because right now I see a team that's regressing. They've lost three strata. They should be more. I mean, they should be better team than their record says they are actually at one point at the beginning of the season people were saying the ravens were better than the bagels. Even though the Bengals beat them. I mean there was like a two weeks period. They looked really good. And then I I don't know what happened. But yeah, I definitely think it's kinda maker break game for both teams because the raven flus they're out. I think I mean, I think they would have to be the Bengals lose. They're not out. But it would. I mean, they'd be walking incredibly thin line. They've really need to win this game. So Harbaugh maybe coaching job. Flacco maybe on the verge of losing his job. But in Cincinnati. It doesn't really appear that way except for of course. Austin? Yeah. I mean, do you think with Joe flacco, you know, this is a guy who played through a twenty c l look like not only did he play through tornado seal that it was more. Like he had like a fly on his knee. When he got injured in that game a couple years ago. He's sort it was like, oh, it's a nuisance. But it didn't seem like he had a twenty Yellen the way that other players tear their ACO. It just seemed like he do he wasn't really aware of the injury. So I mean, you do he can play through most injuries at a hip injuries, not necessarily going to bother him in the way that other players might be bothered by hip injury. But just in terms of his performance. I mean, don't you think it's time or maybe I'm being aggressive. But do you think it's time for them to just try Lamar Jackson just out of a sense of? Hey were four and five or playing for our season. We have to try something different just to spark this offense. That hasn't been very effective for Jesus. A few years now. Yeah. Mostly that's about ACL's. There's so weird. It's so weird up players can just walk off. And look totally fine. I think they don't always. Some of them say they feel it right away. But I think some of them don't, you know, when Karkare Lawson the Bengals store, his ACL and Adam Schefter reported that and I saw him the locker room and two days later, and I look at someone I said without wrong. This is walk into the locker room like totally normal. Everything was fine. But me Lawson works out like a fiend and like take takes care of his body. So like in a nominally, but Bucko is is tough. I mean tougher than anyone gives them credit for it. Just like you said he plays through that. However, I think it's do or die for the ravens. I think they have this first round pick who is expected to succeed Block O one day. Right. So I mean, yeah. Why don't you try clearly nothing else? It's been working. I I mean, I think it you have maybe I think it's a better deal to try him then to put Griffin and if you're not going to play flacco. So I mean, you gotta see what you've got right. So yeah, I would definitely play him. And honestly the. Bagels. Haven't had a great track. Record was rookie quarterback's the lately. So I don't think it's so cut and dry. That's rookie plays and the Bengals win. I think considering they can't tackle right now. He could give them some trouble. He plays. Yeah. And I mean, you mentioned the Bengals defense starting the show Terrell Austin. Of course was just fired. This is a pretty friendly matchup for Lamar Jackson and doesn't get a lot tougher. It's the Bengals this week. It's the raiders at home next week in the raiders are, of course, a mess of a totally different enterprise. When it comes to John gruden's defense there he's at the falcons, the defense has been a message not likely to win that game necessarily, but a really ugly defense in the same thing in Kansas City. The following we great team, but a pretty mediocre defense. And then the bucks we thought it might be even worse than than the Bengals on defense so far this year. And that's how bad it's been. So I mean, it's five defenses that you would figure if you're ever going to integrate the young quarterback have you ever gonna give him the opportunity to succeed with? Eight veteran team you're gonna have to bring him in at some point. Why not this friendly stretch of games? Right. Because what I mean, people might just agree with me here. But what you have to lose. You've the last three you have to win this game. And if you don't like I said, you might be out. So throwing try everything try this young quarterback. And see if you get a shot watching live performance from him. I, yeah, I just you know, coke is probably don't think this way. But I I'm thinking this way, I'm thinking they should see what they got. And hey, if they beat the Bengals and suddenly. It's like all right. Maybe maybe this guy can lead our team. And honestly teams don't have a lot of film on him right now to have another advantage. They have by playing him. I think. Yeah. The whole by week sort of integrate some new concepts take stuff that maybe you've been using play by play basis here for maybe the series era receivers they're red zone. Snap your red zone snap there and making it a more focal point if your offense, and I think from John harbach perfect. If you mentioned having nothing to lose, I think that's true not only in the context of this season. But also in the context of his career with the ravens because this would be if they missed the plows and they're four and five right now. This would be the fourth season in a row what they have missed the playoffs. That's not happen since the first four years of the franchise from ninety six to ninety nine. Now. I would assume John harbor is coaching for his job over the remainder of the season. I mean, he let's say he. They are eight or nine and seven they just miss out on the playoffs. Like, they did a year ago where they're nine and seven and missed out in weeks teen, do you think this is the point where maybe they should consider making a change or do you think it's if he makes the playoffs he stays and he should stay. I think it would depend or what the team will look like at that point. And I think if like I said Jackson is the guy and he he beat the Bengals or whatnot. And the team looks in through even if they ultimately make I mean, don't make the playoffs or acts in the first round. Then you might think. All right. Maybe we should give another year. But if they went dead or back in they just don't look like they're going anywhere. And that's when you should make a change. I think the bagels kind of felt that way. Like they felt right at the team's not getting any better. Maybe we'll make a change regarding Lewis. I don't know how much they thought that. We all know how they feel about Louis. But yeah, you just wanna see your team going forward. You don't want to be sale. I mean, and you're right. They have it. How I mean? Gosh. Do you think ravens based on you know, their history and thing they have had some success? They won the Super Bowl in two thousand twelve. But before that, I mean since two thousand eight that's their only good postseason. I mean, it's kinda crazy, right? Like, it is I realize numbers were that bad. Yeah. I mean, first half of Harbaugh's rain. He's been eleven years, and I believe in the job five playoff appearances two conference championships won a Super Bowl the last six years, including twenty team as a year here one playoff appearance. They made they wanna one playoff game. They beat the Steelers. I believe in two thousand fourteen in lost the patriots on that game where they were up in the patriots then decided to invents a new offense with the unbalanced line and came back to win that game thirty five thirty one. But I mean, this is a it's been a pretty rare pretty a pretty ugly performances for the ravens a team where again, even though they've been eight nine seven. Ten and six eight eight and four of those years only one playoff appearance info season. So I mean, it's it's it's maybe you're spoiled. Maybe if you're a ravens fan, you're just you're kind of spoiled by all the success you've had. But I mean, that's still the reality that you're into it. And it might be a situation where with John Harbaugh could kind of be like Andy Reid and Philadelphia where even though he's a good coach, it might just be time to make the change because you're listening to the same voice gear after year after year and John harbor Mico somewhere else and be a great coach over comes in might even be a someone who can sort of revitalize the franchise with a fresh foist. And I say that of course, knowing that I'm talking to you covering the Bengals with Louis. I wrote a column today about the ten most sort of exciting coaching opportunities that might come up over the next year. And I didn't include the Bengals because I don't think Marvin Lewis is going to lose his job. Do you think there is a scenario where at the end of the season Marvin Lewis does move on from that head coaching spot in Cincinnati? I don't because I they he they gave him a two year contract. And I gave all this is the two year contract. Right. And I would be very surprised if they're gonna pay all those coaches not to coach I mean, honestly that is the reality of how they operate. I just would be very surprised and honestly bagels band wart super doozy. Asks about Hugh Jackson returning because they think that if Marvin Lewis steps down Hugh Jackson could become the next coach, right? There nightmare at this point. You know, it was more of the same like, how could you? How could the fans get behind that? You know, you replace Marvin Lewis with a guy that wants three games in Cleveland, but they're actually legitimately worried about that. And it's not a crazy scenario considering he was one maybe that head coach and waiting behind Louis. Absolutely. I mean, do you think the Bengals organization is aware of that? Or cares about that in terms of the fan perception about the Jackson plausible succession plan. I don't know. I think the bangles always thought why no not thought that Mike Brown used to say even the summary said if you if you win the fans will come back. Well, dangles have been waiting in the fans haven't come back. Then Dedi them against the saints was. Really empty, and can you blame them? Nobody knew they weren't going to beat the saints. They they didn't want to go because they don't wanna see their team get blown out it. That's actually weird thing where the team has a winning record. But I think in their minds they're trying to send a message to Mike Brown that they would like to see the organization change and to give the organization credit in many ways they have before last year they've never fired coordinator in in the middle seasons ever. So you know, they are making steps forward. Ben as long as Marvin Lewis there. It's hard for fans to to really get behind. It. Just you know, they're ready to see some sort of change. I mean, it's it's a weirdly frustrating thing where where I think this is a fan base. And I could be wrong that I sort of been anticipating Marvin Lewis movie on for years now and been excited about what the future might look like after Marvin Lewis, and this kind of feels like well, we're just sort of getting more Marvin Lewis with the Jackson replacement. Is there a is there either a coach or a sort of coachwork a style of coach or a certain level of skill set? You think bingles fans would would sort of be the most excited for Sean McVeigh? Which is not available. The you wanna see the next Sean McVeigh. I think after all of these years having having some sort of offense of minded coach would just be such a release to fans because the baby was played very conservative for the most part. I think a lot of people would say sometimes they play not to lose this year. They had it looks good in the second half. Now, they're a ton of reasons for that. But playing not to lose could be one of them. And it's hard as a fan. I assume when you watch a team like the saints come in, and they don't play not to Luther actually probably too aggressive sometimes, but Payton lives and dies by that owns that in its pure football fan. It's fun to watch knowing if it's like four and four he's gonna go for it. But the bangles aren't gonna do that. Because they don't think the odds favorites, it's two different styles. So. Ten is ramble. I guess I think that the fans would love to have a young offense of minded coach come in. Even though the division is so defense oriented, I just I think that that would be the kind of thing they would want about in comeback for. Yes. So the top of the division now six two and one Pittsburgh Steelers. We were having of course, as we seem to do every year that conversation at the beginning of the season. They're in trouble. They haven't figured it out. They started one two and one honestly should've lost the Browns and the opener newly lost the Becca nearest and week. Three could have been Owen for to start the year. But they were not informed since then forty one seventeen over the falcons twenty eight twenty one over the Bengals as we talked about earlier three three teen over the Browns twenty sixteen over the ravens and then fifty two twenty one absolute will being of the Carolina Panthers last Thursday night. I mean is there any reason to think the Steelers are not going to finish? Atop this division, and as the either possibly even the number one. But my the number two or number three seed in the AFC. It would be hard to believe that would be the case. I don't think I'm looking at their second half schedule. I mean, they do have. Well, actually, I mean, they do have a couple of tough game. They still have to play the patriots saints and charge or however, they also had the Jaguars aren't playing. Well, it's the Broncos, and they have the Bengals last and by that point it could be locked up. So we know it's not a lot because those are some tough games. But the bingles hasn't been able to showers them. I don't know what's going on with the ravens. I don't. I don't know if they can come back from the downside. And you know, they're going to take care of the Browns. Actually, they're done playing the Browns. And and so yeah, I mean at this point. Yeah. You would assume the Steelers are the winners of the AFC north. There's a lot of football left to be played. I'm not trying to be like diplomatic here. I I I'm just looking at those particular three games and thinking, oh, there's actually are. Kinda tough much tougher than the big second half schedule. We talked about the Steelers or nothing ravens I should say and sort of the heightened expectations for success there in how missing the playoffs even with good records might cost John Harbaugh his job there. I don't think Mike Tomlin is going to get fired. I can't imagine a scenario where he would he would lose his job with the students. This is a team that it's fair to say their their fan base is expectations are to win the Super Bowl every single season. And he looked back since they lost in the Super Bowl for the Packers twenty ten so eight years ago at this point twenty eleven they lose to the Broncos in the Tim Tibo game, which seems like it was a lifetime ago, but seven really does feel like that band. It's a ways away twenty twelve twenty thirteen they missed the playoffs. Twenty fourteen. They lose to the ravens at home twenty fifteen. They beat the Bengals in one of the craziest playoff games have ever seen. And then lose to the Broncos without Antonio Brown. Twenty sixteen they get to the AFC championship game in lose to the patriots. Handley 2017 lose at home to the Jaguars. This is a team that I mean, they have not been to Super Bowl aviators. They have not been really close in eight years of one game against the patriots where they got blown out by by nineteen points. I mean, do you think it's fair for St Francis. Look at that, and sort of have that expectation of okay, if we don't make it to the Super Bowl, it's a bummer season that we need to think about making changes or I mean, is it just sort of the reality of fans at this point. I think considering all the talent they've had on the team the last few years it's fair to ask why they didn't do more. And it's there's two ways to look at it that team has big personality. Yes, you can either say common does a great job rating them in or you can say common. Let them go too far because as someone who covered them in the playoffs last year. I felt like it was all about remastered the patriots when we play the patriots just all that nonsense. And it's like, hey, you're playing the Jaguars, and they already beat you. So then they go out and just lay it egg. And you start to think. All right. What did they prepare for this game? What what happened? Why do they look so bad and this band? I would be pretty frustrated considering all the talent dot team had. However, it's kind of a built in excuse to say we lost our. Linebacker, and he's not really he's not easily replaceable. Right. And that's still kind of continues to this day. And you also don't have one of your best off into players. So I think you can make excuses. I just know last year was probably pretty frustrating that it just didn't appear to take seriously a team that had already beaten them and the way they lost is probably frustrating. But yeah, I mean, it's it's like clockwork every regular season. They look fantastic, or at least towards the end of it. And then lose at some point in the playoffs and with this team in particular. I'm not sure how far they'll go kinda kinda hard to say. I mean, I don't know. Do you think that defense to to take them there? That's the tough part is is that it's hard to believe that their defense is going to hold up, you know against the chiefs for a game night. Granted they beat the chiefs pretty much in every meaningful game. They've had. But we saw what happened earlier this year. The chiefs blew them out. It was the final score being closed. But the the the chiefs were way ahead for a good chunk of the contest. And this was only got close within the final two minutes of the contest. I I'm I'm certainly skeptical that their defense can hold up for three. I don't know if anyone's defenses though, at this point, I think it might just be the best possible offense. And we saw what happened with no the students against the Panthers on Thursday. Like, they were absolutely terrifying. For for that game finish appear in terms of the Levy on bell situation, obviously has been talked about ad nauseam. I feel about it. I wanna know how you feel about it. Are you surprised it ended up the way ended up? I mean, I guess for me like I always kind of figured we'll figure it out like he'll come back. Even if it doesn't come back for the beginning of the season. We'll come back and like week to week three. And if not then I'll come back and return Rica Levin like he'll just he'll be on the roster. Come the December income the postseason and he's not he's not coming back. It's not happening. I mean, are you are you shocked eating something that other players are. To do in their situations in the future. I am surprised. I even drafted him. Overall. What am I? Well, actually as soon as I heard the news. I think I picked up Connor. But I did that. Because in my mind, I was thinking hold outs never last. They always come joking collusion covered NFL's two thousand two which isn't that long? But long enough that you've seen the threat of hold out and it just never happened. So I mean, you can Meyer him for sticking to his gun. But personally to me it just feels like he's getting bad advice. I just don't know how this is a spy nationally good solution to what he wants to accomplish. I understand not wanting to get hurt. Totally get that part. I mean, I understand feeling like maybe the team used too much, and I he has a chance of getting hurt. And then having nothing that's fourteen and a half million dollars not getting backs. You have get some megadeal from another team. I mean, maybe maybe he will maybe they're under the table talks. And they Artie have a place in mine. Mind. And that's why this all happened. The wait did. But I still just keep thinking you're never gonna get the fourteen and a half million back, and how much could you get guaranteed after a year off football make up for that. I mean, I don't know what you think I might be totally wrong. It just doesn't seem like the most financially savvy decision to me. But you know, it will play out in a few months, and I'm actually like really intrigued to see what the market is like and what happens. Okay. So finish appear trill week one of the twenty nineteen and I fell season Levy, I'm bell is about to get his first carry of the campaign which teams uniform is he wearing. Montana the most likely contenders. I'm assuming that yet. I I was gonna I think we can rule out the Cincinnati Bengals Deirdre. Yeah. You can rule that out. I don't think they would pay him what he wants. But the Jin position I think that's been tossed around as a contender. I don't know exactly. How much cap space? They have I can tire. It's a lot of camps. They can certainly afford to bring him in. And they would I think they've made slashes before. I I was ruled out the dangle before you they already have Joe mixing, and I don't think mixing bell like each other very much anyway. So I think you're happy with what have there, but? Yeah. I mean, the same already had their guy the same type of type of team that would definitely do that. But they don't need to who needs a running back really badly. I mean, there's not that many teams the raiders you would figure takes one takes one. Yeah. They're raiders. That's intriguing possibility. I mean, no there in total we build now. But are you going to invest if you're in rebuild note or get invest all that money in a running back doesn't seem? He doesn't seem them lies to raise haven't done much. Why this year? That's anyway. Thanks. I wouldn't count on them doing the smart thing the Niners. Maybe if they cut your McCain and could be in the discussion, the bucks, we'll have a lot of cap space and could certainly use a running back with paid-in Barbara struggling there. Ronald Jones sort of not launching so far in his pro career. It'll be really fascinating dolphins doesn't have necessarily. But they do a lot of things like this. I could see them going after a star player. It's gonna be really interesting. I think it's going really fast any market. And like you said it's only gonna take one team to sort of think he is the guy that's going to really help them. Get over the top make the postseason or help take some of the pressure off their young quarterback. Somebody is doing to talk themselves into Levy on bell. We just don't think it's going to be Cincinnati Bengals Catherine please tell people they can check out more of the stuff you do for us. You can follow me on Twitter at cat underscore, Terrel or. On ESPN dot com. Mendes, catherine. Oh is a pleasure. I'm sorry that we sent the Bengals into a tailspin last time, we talked hopefully say spur them into a winning streak this time around. Thanks much coming on the show. Thanks as always having me. All right. Thanks much to my guest today. Lindsay tunes of the. Katherine Tyrrell ESPN audio coming next week here on the Bill. Geico presents eyewitness interviews with inanimate objects. This is Belinda Collins live on the scene of a recent lightning storm here to describe the event TV tray. I was watching football and holding a plate of Meatloaf, win come a bolt of lightning slams into the apartment blowing out the TV around sound anything. You could have done to help my. I'm a foldable table, not an electric TV. Trae can't help you in a lightning storm. But the co insurance agency can help you get covered for personal property damage. Go to Geico dot com to see how a forcible renter's insurance can be.

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Accounts of Sexual Harassment Within the Washington Franchise, Plus a COVID-19 NFL Update | The Ringer NFL Show

The NFL Show

53:20 min | 2 weeks ago

Accounts of Sexual Harassment Within the Washington Franchise, Plus a COVID-19 NFL Update | The Ringer NFL Show

"Welcome to the Ringer podcast network. It's list Kelly this week. We launched a new show on the network called the ringer fantasy football show coming from the guys who brought you. The Dynasty Football podcast Danny Hyphen Dan Kelly and Craig. quarterback will guide you through the fantasy football season, providing analysis on big picture conversations like weekly matchups, trades and daily fantasy. The show run every Monday and Wednesday throughout the rest of the summer, and we'll be helping you through the regular season as well so follow and listen to the first episode of the Ringer Fantasy Football podcast out now for free on spotify. A. Rendering fell show partner podcast network I am Kevin. Clark joined today by Athletic Nfl Order Lindsay Jones Lindsay all the news is bad, but how are you? I'm great I'm just waiting to find out if we're GONNA have fall. In any sense to write about and talk about starting in the next couple of days, I mean look the the Texans rookies, and she's rookies are reporting to camp as we speak. Crazy! And I saw a report that from Tom Palestinians the chiefs health plan has been approved one of three teams that has been approved so far. That's there are not three teams in the NFL and we'll leave it at that for right now, and we'll get back to the cove itself when I say all the news is bad I say that because we're tackling subjects to the Washington football franchise and the covert situation in football, all the negotiations around the deadline for training camp why the NFL get to this point why rookies reporting without an agreement players? Players are speaking out, but we'll start with Washington if you missed the story on Friday. Fifteen employees of the organization and to media members describe to the Washington Post sexual harassment and verbal abuse. Before the story came out, the team fired personnel executives. Richard Nanosecond and Alex Santos and longtime radio host Larry Michael Retired last Wednesday all three as well as several other former employees were named in the post story. Here's a quote from Emily applegate who worked as a marketing coordinator in two thousand fourteen in two thousand fifteen for the team. It was the most miserable experience of my life, and we all tolerated it because we knew if we complained and they reminded us of this, there were thousand people who would take our job in a heartbeat. Calm Clare McNair one of our staffers of the bring over the weekend where she basically said you cannot talk this up as another problem for the Washington Franchise, because at this point, there've been so many missteps so many problems that they all seem to run together. This is not that this this rises above almost everything else to two were the most serious where the Times report a couple of years ago, but the chillier it was just awful and this one that is just eight is it is unconscionable, and there is obviously an awful culture in DC. There are problems that need to be fixed. That are just. It's mind boggling. It's gotten to this point. Lindsey, when you first read the store, you thought what? I thought that the women who went forward to the Washington Post on the record were extremely brave and. Talked about things that are not a huge secret to women who work in around sports, and specifically within the NFL, I was extremely sad. I was angry I was disgusted, but I wasn't surprised I. think surprise would be kind of the last word I would use to describe. The way that I the way that I felt when I read it. Because you know this is I think that the what these women talked about about what they experienced Washington. Was Awful, and was an extreme example. I think Washington is one of the most toxic franchises in the NFL and and in all professional sports, but it's hardly an isolated incident, and you know obviously I view this through the lens of being a woman who covers the NFL and has covered the NFL for a long time has been. Be Writer in a national reporter since two thousand eight, so you it through the lens of covering the NFL at what the two female reporters who who went forward on the record, or what they experience is stuff that I know colleagues talk about all tied mean it's it's constant for us. It's it's a universal experience for women who cover the NFL and I'm grateful for them for going forward and. The NFL never had its metoo reckoning. Win The restaurant when so many other parts of American Society American business dead. The NFL did not have it, and you know. Maybe this'll be the start of that for the NFL. I'm not sure it will be. I. Don't necessarily believe that the way that Washington is going to handle it. will now I don't have a lot of competence in the Snyder damage site in his. The people he's hired will will handle. This will change their culture moving forward as long as he is running organization. So we'll say, but yeah I mean it was. It was a really damning report and. It needs to be taken seriously both by everybody with washing organization and with the NFL. So before we get into a couple of things, especially the future of the franchise that looks like I'd like to go back to the said. Why don't you think because we saw a metoo reckoning and so many different industries, but we did not see it in football. Where obviously there is a problem and we know that even more after last week. Why wasn't there that? When every other industry you know two three years ago, was getting talked about in that vein. Yeah I think it's still just a really difficult place for women to come forward I think there are pieces of the NFL typically within the League office. You know when you look at their staff. The makeup of the NFL League office over the last several years there has been a concerted effort to hire more women in senior leadership roles and they do. A lot of activity and Social Activism Socialist Facility at I think there are well-made people at the front office or the the League office in Cedar Leadership. I don't think that is translated to the clubs, and it is very much an old boys network where they're still so few women that are within all of these franchises Berry, women Cedar Senior Leadership Within these franchises and You know so many of the bad actors that that were that. We learned about in the Washington Post story, and that women who cover this business know about in the thirty one other franchises they continue to kind of move from job to job. Get promoted because they're part of this voice network, and there is a real culture. Fear not wanting to come forward, and you know I know for me personally as you know. I've been afraid to say anything I. I never WANNA. Be The story, and that's why it was really incredible, but shoe female reporters. Rian Walker my colleague at the that the athletic and Nora your colleague. The Ringer said something because we never want to be the story, and that's I think that's a big part of it at least from the media side. Yeah I was obviously Renan's piece on the athletic last week was incredibly powerful, and everybody should read it if they haven't and Nora. Obviously A. I'm you know. Her bravery was incredible, and and obviously we all support her and Yeah. I mean I from what I. From what I've gathered over the past couple of days. And I'd like your perspective on this. Daniel Snyder response to this is Ben's acidic or sham reports this. He did not address much beyond the public statement with on the virtual owners meeting, and it quote left a few owners and executives feeling underwhelmed. Is this the kind of thing Lindsey. Where after they fire three people, it's almost business as usual or do you think that the Washington team which has never shown much propensity to change anything beyond being constant tire fire could actual actually spur real change? I think there's two parts of this. I think Ron Rivera is right guy from football perspective, and he's been through this and Carolina Jerry. Richardson ended up having to sell the team. Because of very serious and credible accusations of a variety of kinds of harassment from sexual harassment to a lot of racial insensitivity to maybe we probably should just flat out it racism that occurred with an organization. so you know Ron Rivera. Did. A good job of managing that and he's been pretty progressive in terms of the people that he's hired the people around him the culture that he's created within the football side. So my question is how much power does he have now and? I think we've seen him take. A larger role in terms of you know football decisions at players they drafted and signed, and these sorts of things I I do not get the sense. Daniel Snyder that he has one. Sorry, actually sorry for any of this that has happened and believes that anything was actually wrong. I mean there were no accusations directly against him in terms of sexual harassment. But. It was clear there. There's no way that he are very senior people either currently working for Washington or the people who are since gone because they have had massive amount of turnover at the top of that organization over the last several years. There's no way that any of those Matt could say that. They didn't know what was going on. And she allowed it to fester. He encouraged it and I. Don't I guess I'm just very skeptical that he is the person who is going to oversee a cultural overhaul with Americanization. I'll say this. Either, he knew about it. which is I mean if you read, the story almost has to know about it. or He didn't know about it, which makes him the dumbest person in America, and neither of those things are good options for him. And I just think that either. He has no idea what's going on in his organization or he was. Letting this happen and so I i. think this is this even though there were no direct accusations against him a reflection of the culture, he's built and the culture that he has instilled in that organization. You know I saw quote this morning. so they hired a new business sky, business head. Terry, Bateman and less carpenter had less carpenter had had kutner quote about from when they fired their last business. Add Ryan left. Amina and it was quote is from a ex employ. You can literally feel the negative energy in the building that day. Everyone felt so crushed and devastated. Feeling was. We literally can't stay here. Okay? The turnover here in Washington is unbelievable and there is almost. I Snyder has so micromanaged everything to the point. There's no stability in this franchise. Nobody knows anything Ben from sports. Business Journal said that Ron Rivera has essentially been doing business. I'd stuff to fill a power vacuum. Okay, and there's there's a couple of things done pack number one I said I, remember really early in two thousand twelve. What I first on the beat. That someone I know in the NFL was like the Washington just called me asking for job candidates certain role. And I said what would you do? And they said well I gave them three names, and then I called those three people and said do not take this job. That's kind of all you need to know, but I guess the question is with Ron Rivera specifically. Do you feel like he's been tried out a sort of a human shield a little bit. You know he's such a good guy that the fact that he had to make these statements going above and beyond what Dana Snyder was talking about I mean it is really feels like he's been putting an unfair situation because the entire the rest of the franchises so unstable. One hundred percent agree about that because. He hasn't even gone to just single football practice yet, right? He hasn't even been able to get all. The players know I mean not in person yet. I mean I. Think There's probably guys that he was able to to meet in person in January and February when they were coming through the building for. You know when it was still open before Kovic, shut our country down, but no, he has not been able to put together a faulty meeting. He has not let alone coach an actual football practice or an actual game so yeah I mean I think there is some of that I. Think he's made a very very difficult situation I do think he's capable of handling it. Are you know if there's anybody in the NFL? Who is I would? On Rivera, but I do remember even back in January. When he was the first hire, I mean because he was fired by Carolina in late November early December, so he had a couple of weeks, and obviously the Washington job was the first one that was open reopen through most of last season and I just remember thinking why Ron you're going to have your choice. There's going to be other places you can go. That are going to have better ownership out the more stable quarterback situation. You just go Mike. McCarthy route and just learn about analytics and all that stuff for a year and. That's show. I. Do think he's learned a little more Benelux, but it's A. He had the option to either take a better job or just wait a year I mean. Got The cowboys job. You can if you have a reputation. The the key is to protect is protecting that and when you go into Washington. You Either It is hard to keep your reputation in Washington and he actually I. Think Expectations for wins and losses are actually quite low, but I think it's it's hard over three or four years to actually build a culture, and that's GonNa be his his biggest challenge. I think it's going gonNA. Be Really hard to to turn that that boat around so speak well in so much of the cold, the building a culture changing the franchise. Some within all of that stuff is stuff. That's going to be kind of happening very much behind the scenes. He's going to be judged. John this team wins, and if the fans come eventually, have you twenty twenty but? If the business of this team turns around and people have competence wash organization again and their band back to. That X. or whatever it's going to be named field, and you know while the working environment hopefully will change the leadership ultimately. What's going to matter if he keep determine if he keeps his job in what happens to his legacy? Is it that she was going to wit? And if Dwayne the Haskins, quarterback in Jack del Rio was the right defensive coordinator. All sorts of things and You Know Dana Snyder still running the show there and I. Just, consider me. Skeptical is probably the best way to put it consider both of US skeptical on the entire thing I wanna get back very quickly to something you talked about so you were quoted in the Washington Post over the weekend as was USA Today columnist Fancy Armor Molly Rivera from Espn John was in the story and I. Something really made me sick to my stomach in the store and was a quote from Mansi Armor. It was as women. Women. How do you ask for a phone number and make it clear that you're asking for professional reasons, not because you WANNA. Turn it into three booty call. Every single woman covers sport has had that dot the reason. I made me sick to my next. Because this is something that we all we all ask your phone numbers, we have to we all Asri mail addresses debate. We all ask for become different ways to contact somebody and I've never. Had to think about how to explain this to someone I say. Hey, if I've another question, can I. Can I text you and I've never had to put that in the context, perspective and. I guess reading that I realized a lot of things, but I guess I I would ask you Lindsey. How does the culture change from here? And what are the what teams need to do what a sources need to do? What is league need to do to where you know? One of the key things in this story was ran and Walker talking about. About the Columbine and how much are action? The combine, which is where you meet sources. How much that interaction? Really her and I think that you know the owners meeting the combine exactly what you said. Those are the places you meet people, but those are also bar scenes. Those are also hey. Let's hang out by the pool and have a corona scenes and. I am after. A couple of stories. I have a new perspective on that in regards to this. So how does the culture change? What needs to happen once? Yes, so there's I mean there's a lot of a lot to address I. Think within that, and obviously this is kind of getting very vides words, journalism, and the way that our business operates, but yeah, I mean it's stuff that I think about on a daily basis. It stuff that me and my female colleagues and peers throughout the NFL. We talk about regularly. I mean I'm on multiple group shots that. Group tax with their female reporters from around the NFL specific to within the athletic, and then also you don't know colleagues rounds. You know around the industry and not not just exclusive to the NFL, but you know I think a lot of what goes on with NFL reporting is very unique and the way that these events they are very focused around the social networking seen at a bar and the thing that ran and wrote her first person piece that she published on the athletic on Friday. It's so powerful I hope everybody to read that it is unlocked. It's in front of the paywall. Please read it. But there was a part in it that just really I'm so glad that she wrote, and she wrote about how the the president that she experienced at the combine out one of the bars downtown. Indianapolis it wasn't just the the embarrassment in the moment and the feeling of shame and. What happened moment it was how it affected her ability to do our job. After that was the fact that you know she'd been harassed by the Director of player personnel or from team and she needed to use, she would have needed to use him as a source, and she wrote that she played small Extra see you know in the coming months because she couldn't go to him or his top assistant to be sources about agency, so it's always trying to find these other avenues around it and that's. Where this trickles down and you know I think unfortunately so often. The focus when you talk about Women Working Sports Media is Oh, it's it's all about the locker room. What's it like being in the Locker Room? You just want to be in this space and it's their private area. They they should be able to be naked and not have to be around. It's not about the law. and people who wanNA take a bare. It's a complete misunderstanding of what the issue is. What the challenges are for women to work assistance so when you talk about what what can be done, I think there's you know I think there's a couple of things and it's not. This is an exclusive sports media. I think this is you know this can apply to men who to be allies who are working in any industry whether you're working in. A law firm or a bank or in a public school setting whatever it might be where. You know. Women are not sex objects that you're you're female cares your co workers women that work at other firms or at other newspapers or other media outlets. And the women who are covering business it's. It's not a sexual thing at all, and you know when when we talk about how to ask for phone numbers. It's something that we can set our all the time, and you just said it where you say you know. Hey, how can I get in touch with you? If I have a couple of other followups, it's you have to make sure that it's always done within a professional setting, but you think about things like what time of my texting. What's the tone of this text How am I responding if the Techs I get responses. You know or what are you doing later or you know it's? It's meeting sources for coffee and not meeting not meeting the bar. It's a lot of these sorts of these sorts of things, and then I know that there's a lot of reporters and other members of NFL media who listen to this podcast, and so much of it is about our our male colleagues and call it out when it happens Don't be part of the gossip circle. Don't assume that when you're a female colleague is. Maybe it's crime, forty seven Indianapolis and you see a woman over there, talking to general manager and assistant coach. Don't make jokes about how they're going to go back and sleep together. She's networking just the same way that you are and. Ninety nine point nine five percent of the time being extremely professional about it So you know I think it's those things that are about being allies and one of the things that just really was frustrating last week before the Washington Post story came out, was that there was just the son of gossip going around about the story was going to be, and it just shows how many men working in this industry know about the rascals on and have seen it firsthand have seen it at the bars in Indianapolis have seen it at the bars and mobile during the senior bowl and seen it at the bars at the the Ritz Carlton at the. Meetings and while they might. You know check on you immediately to make sure you're okay. That's where it ends, and there's no kind of accountability and we need. Our male peers are male allies to step up and truly be truly be allies and not part of the problem. And I think that it goes back to what you said about the. Powerful piece where? I think if there were male colleagues who saw this while they want free agency information, so they're not gonNA. Call you know and it just becomes this poisonous thing. And it's it is horrible and I can't. I'm happy. This is all being exposed and I hope Louis within sports media within sports I, it spurs real change. and I think that as we've both we. We've talked about over the past twenty minutes. This is not unique to the Washington football team. And hopefully there's there's a reckoning with all the teams where we're. That needs to be address I briefly before we move onto the fact, that might not be NFL season. Okay, it's going to be. Is. The name change because this is something, we I don't think we've even address on this show. Because of the constant concentration of news to me, do weird culture war. They were fighting Snyder and and Bruce Alleys. Guys the the weird war they were fighting over. The name is symptomatic of a franchise that spends its energy on the wrong things and I think that. You look at all the mistakes that they've made. Anything from handling rg three two and his injury to Wedding Sean mcvay in Cal Shan and Matt Leflore out of the building without a second thought. Any of those things can be explained away by the fact, they don't prioritize winning and the the. Most teams do not thirty to thirty one other teams say by twenty good twenty, three and twenty five teams prioritise winning. And be that they just care about the wrong things and when when this name change thing came down the pipeline. What was your first thought Lindsey? Was Okay finally. He's going to do it, but. This is not something Netherland moment by Daniel Snyder. This was not that he had this light bulb that went off that he realized that the name of his organization was racist. It wasn't that he had this this moment. Reckoning it was it was financial, and that's what it is so often. Is that finally? No, it was that x and it was the other major sponsors brenning to pull out and to force enforcing this to change and so often. That's how you know. Major change happens right. It's that there's some sort of financial impetus. That's GONNA. Make it happen. Happen and it was finally going to affect Daniel. Snyder's you know his Taco box and bank accounts, or whatever and you know we talk about the not winning and not being caring about winning. It's because every time we see those Forbes list of NFL valuations. Come out. They're always right near the top. So while they were floundering on the field, they were an embarrassment in the news. You know just constant misstep. After misstep. He was still raking in a ton of money. So why was he gonNA? Do anything differently and finally it. Not The black lives matter. Movement that forced him to change. It was not know movement within his organization. It was not pressure from native American musicians. It was the fact that his biggest sponsors were finally forcing it to do something, so you know like. Skepticism right. This is where I. Always come down to when it comes to Washington. These are not good intentions. They're going to change it. Which is good I'm glad that they're going to have a new name a new logo. Officially, but I don't believe that he actually believes that they need to change and he's only changing because he's being forced to her financial reasons. Yup well sad I mean this was not just Fedex, but Nike pulling the products off off the website Amazon, and also by the way a lot of the revenue from that stuff gets shared with the other owners, and so if you're Jerry Jones or or your Stephen Ross, he was like wait a second. We're losing one thirty. Two of our of our merchandise revenue because Snyder's battling some weird culture war like no thanks. Oh, thanks, guys! All right before we move auto stick with break. 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NFL Reporters Online who were Sangyo? Nine percent of this stuff is done, or or you know A. we're there at the one yard line, or whatever and and and I'm sorry. If frequency of testing is an outstanding issue, it's you're not ninety nine percent done if how many preseason games they're gonNA play is still an issue. You're not at ninety nine percent. There's a lot of stuff that needs to be hashed out. And I think it will be might be hashed out on Monday but the NFL really. They wanted to be a strong negotiation stamp. Negotiation stance and so. They waited to the last second and I think that that in this regard. As kind of reckless and I understand. Even, the preseason stuff Andrew Brandt tweeted this morning. The owners know that some players want one preseason game and others one zero, and you can figure out who that is. The younger players WanNa prove themselves or make the team one preseason and the veteran stone, and he said owners know this. That's why. They want to divide and conquer. That's the game plan and I. Don't know why. NFL owners are doing the normal NFL owner thing which is trying to. beat the players in negotiation. Whatever the cost! During a very serious problem when Truthfully, it would be very easy for bad things happen. I think there's a large group of players that understand that that is not how the NFL owners operate. It is the divide and conquer thing, and that's why we saw that very concerted media, your social media push yesterday on Sunday morning from so many players, and you know this offseason you know has been defined by red and defined by the. Social Justice Movement for players and players. Voices have been more powerful whenever I think that they were able to get at least some concessions out of the NFL work, regarding social justice in the black lives matter movement by banding together using their collective voices. By social media so there was a little bit of that but yeah I mean I. It's it's so tricky because you know I think the NFL has always going back to March. When we first started, you know when they first started trying to plan were adamant that they were going to have a season and talking about having having a season with fans. They've had this, very. Optimistic view of what the country was going to look like several months down the road and Doing still like Oh twenty five percent of standing. They still think they can have fans in the stands, which is wild like in the summer there like full full stadiums full steam ahead. I mean this is we only were to describe? This is arrogance so I, yeah. I get arrogant. I think there was a lot of Naive about what the country was going to be. What was going to look like You don't just this really. They didn't want to admit any sort of. Contingency plans and I don't think it would have been wrong to admit that. Look where we have to acknowledge that the season is going to be different that the way that they built the schedule. In not they could have built the schedule in that. You could have blocked off the first four weeks. But they did not do that. They made it so you can kind of tinker with weeks two and three potentially push everything back and push the playoffs and everything and the January February. But they really didn't it. It's like they never. They just had these blinder about. The potential that this country was not going to recover by fall and I think they also there was. I think a pretty significant miscalculation about. One how the country was going to behave, and how sure cova cases going to take off. And move into these SABERI football. But just remember. It wasn't that long ago that. Teams and the universities in Florida for example. We're like come to Gainesville rate. You can y'all these NFL teams move into Geico. Couple of leagues listen to that to that advice to come to Florida which I mean. Yeah filed right there and they're trying to. You know big-league became. The the NBA can can do a bubble. I mean we'll see if it works, but the NFL that was a nonstarter that was never anything that is going to be discussed with with the League. The NFL has two thousand plus players, hundreds of coaches and staff people, and this is you know they're trying to go through a five months plus season. you know what you need for? Football is so different than what you need for for basketball, or for some of these, even even like major league soccer. So you, know I, think when we when we look at these different reports, you have to kind of break them out into the difference pieces. I I do believe it's accurate to say that there are ninety nine percent done on testing protocols, and that's something that has to come first because these players literally are flying into these cities right now, if they don't live there year around, but yeah, they're flying into Kansas, city they're flying to Houston rookies from all thirty two teams are going to reporting. Be Reporting on Tuesday and they need to have this testing protocols in place. I! The of Tested yes, yes. It is so they're doing the NFL owners thing. They're not doing daily testing Peter King. Reports is not even going to be instant. Results can be twenty four hours and we'll get it on a second, but I mean they're doing clearly doing that so that the big give. Among ownership we'll be. We'll be both preseason and daily testing, which both of which should have been? Months ago, and I know I. I guess I guess what I'm saying is the NFL owners will never change. I I think you're right about that know. I think that's a pretty good assumption to make but yeah acceptable The testing protocols finalized here within the next. You know several hours. I recording this at lunchtime on Monday. So could be at some point on Monday or Tuesday, but the thing is is the players have a lot more questions than just? Going to be tested, you know it was very clear from what players were tweeting about on Sunday that they are involving their families in this and they want some sort of. Guarantees, which is difficult because nobody knows anything about Kobe. Right I, mean we. Of coveted iceberg, we will saying to bury top of like what this disease is capable of how it's transmitted what it does to children and how children lane and our chance met, and all the same conversations probably should be happening around schools having around professional sports, which is. But he's had all different podcast. But you know the the League has very much focused really since. March, but especially in the last couple months that they've been really trying to ramp up about training camp as really focused on what happens within their buildings, and what the protocols are for win, a player arrives at the building. What's screening and testing and you know sanitizing mouth guards and creating these new face shields, these Oakley face shields, and all of this sort of stuff, but. Not having any control over what happens when guys leave, and you know so now they keep talking about link to shared responsibility. Following the players are like not your responsibility lake. We'll show up our contracts that we need to be there. Drive twenty eighth. We'll show up, but it's your responsibility to make sure that me and my family. are going to be safe and as of right now. The NFL has not been able to provide. Real answers or any sort of assurances about that that that'll happen, and then what they're gonNa do if there's any sort of outbreak and what we're seeing around the country right now, it would be extremely naive to think that there's not going to be an outbreak and one or more of these thirty teams, so I wanNA. Go back from the. Punishing think that obviously the new cycle in just in life has been dominated by two things, the in two thousand, twenty social justice, and and covert, and in a way what we saw yesterday was a bit of emerging of the to just M-, football perspective in the sense that guys like Patrick, Mahomes who've been speaking up on social issues now know how powerful their voices can be, and they're using it and seth wicker Shannon made the. The point yesterday did previous generation Brady and Manning. They came together once on like what the texture of the new football's would like. That was the one time that they were like. We're together in this, and now you have legitimate. Superstars drew brees. Patch mahomes Michael Thomas obviously not starbuck JC tritter is. I've been very outspoken. You're talking about Doug Russell Wilson, dozens and dozens and dozens of guys who are becoming extremely prominent social media. Critics of league and their safety protocols. Do you get the sense because I do that? This could be. The first of many of those waves, and that this this is going to sort of be evolving, and you're gonNA. See a Patrick. Mahomes or a drew brees or Michael, Thomas or Russell Wilson speaking out throughout the year because I. Don't think I think this is all volving so quickly that there's going to be issues all the time and I think that these players are just GonNa. Keep speaking out all year about what the NFL is doing. What clubs are doing? One hundred percent I think that's going happen it's going to be about social issues. They're not going to stay quiet as long as CON cabinet is still out of the League. You know health and safety issues for shore I'll be very interested to see if the next time that there is a major. Issue that's going on if these guys will last year, it was Tom Brady one night, watching Thursday night football complaining about holding calls and they changed it. Will you know what arrested guys? Ray You. Remember he likes solves the holding problem. Just I watch. Yeah, I forgot I I. Happened last season feels like it was like hunger Bindra. but yeah I think they really collectively our understanding their independent power and You know it's NFL. Players are not always unified on. Thanks look mean the the CBA passed by sixty votes. Last year I mean big barely got enough votes to pass that CBI and There are a lot of things that you can still criticize at CBS about, but imagine if they had gotten done. Imagine like the world of. You know what the NFL as a whole right now if there was no actual, be signed. but they are finding these issues that. A majority of players to care about and that they can, but they're stronger together when they talk about it, and then the one thing that I am also really excited and encouraged by. Is that college athletes are doing this to college athletes this season have have realized that they have voices, and that they have power, so the next generation of NFL players are going to be arriving, knowing that they can use their voices and use their platforms in ways that maybe previous generations. It took them longer. You know it's been really interesting to watch. Guys who are on their first contracts speaking up, you know. Patrick Mahomes is always going to get five million dollars. But you know he was it. The front and center of the black lives matter video you know before he got his master contract and. saquon Barkley and You know guys who've come into the NFL post. Colin Kaepernick that are and of leading all of these movements right now, and they're not waiting to become. Five time all pros and future hall of Famers to stand behind something and the rest of the this old guard quarterbacks, this old guard of NFL, guys, they should. Be Grateful to what these young guys are doing right now and probably follow their. John this just exciting I expect we're going to see it a lot. I mean what we saw on Sunday is not going to be the last time that these guys are banding together to Talk About Health and safety. Even with the college stuff. There's some we're GONNA have some tangible changes. You Know Quincy Avery. WHO's The quarterback coach Shawn Watson Smother folks. He tweeted a couple of days ago or a couple of weeks ago. Like guys a lot of college, a lot of your favorite college players how he put it have taken their last college snap. I mean some of these guys, not gonNA put up with a ludicrous season if it's if it's delayed or if the schools are you know I as I botanical, but if they're if if if they're going online only for the regular. Regular student body, but trying to push through a college football season I mean some of the stuff might not being so ludicrous, and by the way there's no incentive to play because spoiler. These guys don't get paid by the university and I. It's it's GonNa be really interesting to see the the college level as well I wanNA. Get into Peter King so Peter King went to Minnesota Vikings camp to the last week I guess and kind of detailed what the the Kobe testing looked like. The Kobe has taken Mike Zimmer's parking spot, which is a phenomenal detail. Having seen all of this and it looks like the Vikings. Have a great set. The Vikings ones. You've been to that that facility. You know those folks. They're very smart organization. They've thought through everything. Their health and safety is actually their their training room, health and safety. I've gotten a tour event at sister. They've thought through everything and if anybody is going to be. On top of it, it's going to be them. I'm less optimistic about. Other teams being on top of it, but think the Vikings are GonNa be on top yeah I would have rather senatorial like the los. Angeles chargers basically like their training facility, a business jargon or Washington Yeah Oh like the Old Oakland Raiders, facility but yes sorry, a couple teams. I don't want to put anybody on blast because it's actually not that unique. There's a couple of teams where they meet in. In like trailers. You don't see yeah, and it's like. How are we going to have cope like this is clearly not a situation where you have temporary rooms and all this stuff I know temporary locker rooms or a big thing, and so many vices. Oh! Yeah I mean they're. They're all over I mean even some of the niceties like the star in Frisco, which is one of the bread I mean it'll. Minnesota are like two of the very newest training facilities. Their Locker Room is not marched. It's kind of like very long narrow and they'd like very swanky like. Okra? Bacher's and all of this stuff, but there's not room. Just spread these guys out so even the nicest places. It's going to be a big challenge to accommodate all of these protocols. Entre, percent, so Peter says after having seen this last point. I'm dubious about the NFL's ability to play a season in full. There are ten teams in hotspot. States Florida Georgia, Texas Arizona and California. The NFL is not playing in a bubble of a chance that none of these teams will be ravaged by Covid. Nineteen seems farfetched I hope. I am wrong, but I doubt it. Peter King is as good a reporter as there is in our in our sport, and in all sports and all journalists. Okay, I don't think Peter would say this lightly and I think that he's. I think there will be sixteen games, and I will be playoffs, but I don't think it'll be easy and I think you might have to have some built in mechanisms where almost a little bit of almost what like the is had where it's like Oh man? Nashville has got X. amount of positives. They can't play this week. Remove in that game. You know in the same way that that that in very different but. But Listen Games get rescheduled for hurricanes acts of God all that stuff or they get moved. If there's a situation, it's GONNA be very fluid for the entire season to to to be played I. think There's going to be football, but I'M GONNA has to be a lot of flexibility within that Lindsey what's your take on on what this season looks like just from a structural standpoint with the looming threat of an outbreak. Yet there will be outbreaks. I'm with Peter on that. I just think if we look around. What's going on in other sports and then just within her country in general and just how many? People are Matic and our testing positive? I am very curious. What these testing numbers are gonNA look like when two thousand players show up to their abilities week because we know that while the players right now are arguing for. Significant safety protocols from the NFL and assurances that there won't be outbreaks. They haven't exactly been isolating themselves quarantine in themselves getting ready for the NFL season. I mean we've seen them working out in in groups without masks for months in an hostile in hot spots in Dallas in Florida. Tom Brady's infamous workouts that he is that he was getting together there. Tampa so I expect that we're going to see you know. What were the NBA numbers something initially like seven percent, or so I mean we're going to be saying significant. A now amounts of positive tests when. You. Get yet you had at the beginning of the bubble for the NBA, and then they all sit in the bubble bubble, right? The problem is if whatever the testing numbers are. There's not a guarantee that those are going to get better because there is no bubble. Yeah, exactly yeah, because then they're going to be going out and they're going to be going back to their. How's it going back to their homes and going to the grocery store? And maybe kids will be in school and. Out there. I think the NFL's ability to control outbreaks is going to be really really difficult I. Mean they're doing? They're working a lot of things that are going to help with our contact tracing and a lot of fancy technology that they're going to be using that will hopefully help them. You know, mitigate or when they win. One player test positive figure out everybody else that they've been in contact with more quickly than traditional contact tracing, but we'll see I. I don't know, but I think that given the amount of money. That's at stake here and but we. was at the root of everything we talked about Washington early in his podcast, money is going to drive everything here. Money jobs everything with all with the ownership. They are going to do everything possible to get you whatever it such seven September Tenth Week One, but first one weekend and make it a huge event. Welcome back to football America's back to normal. You know it's going to be this. National, anthem and you know this big thing about like this big six. American success story of. Playing football amid Cova. It's GonNa. It's GonNa. Kill Real Achey. It's IT'S GONNA I'M GONNA Hassle. You well as well. I it's. But. Yeah, they're going to have to be flexible. Keep talking about like Oh. We've moved games because of hurricanes, or because the the ceiling of the metrodome collapsed forgotten. That, they haven't able to be flexible. Move things, but they haven't built those mechanisms in yet, and I think there were a lot of opportunities as they could have done that already, and they haven't because they've been just so blindly focused on normalcy and having a normal NFL season when. I don't think anybody. Well I should I shouldn't make broad generalizations that about the American public but I don't think a lot of people would have faulted them or acknowledging, but this year is going to be very difficult, and it's going to be different and making some smart rational decisions to. Build the schedule differently or to. Move some teams were trained change training camp location source of things that would maybe help mitigate some of these risks. The lack of reckoning with the reality has been a the strangest thing and I think for a team that tries to plan everything because there's fourteen fifteen billion dollars in line every single season it's it's been a little bit strange to see. Them tried to approach as normal Marlon. Humphrey the Baltimore. Ravens Star quarterback has tweeted quote. That corona test brought tears to my eyes. Instantly ll so we're going to be saying. Saying a lot of that the interesting thing to me in that piece is Richard Sherman tells Peter that no one knows if they're going to be able to finish. He pulled players. Are they gonna be able to finish the season? No one knows, but I feel like the way this league runs which Sherman said. If the season starts still fight tooth and nail finish I, think that's an important point super bowl. I don't think Zach brain breaking. News. Super Bowl was lucrative for them and they're gonNA WANNA, plan. Maybe it gets delayed a couple of weeks maybe at some point I. Don't think anybody would would fault them. Listen the NBA. NHL MLS were pushed back months. I. Don't think anybody would fault the NFL if even in the next couple of weeks of the next month. They said listen. We're GONNA. Push the the NFL. We're going to push the playoffs and the Super Bowl back. Three weeks just to give a cushion and the best case scenario is yet three weeks after a crazy season to rest and recover, and all that and and and there is no outbreak. Right that's that's the hope. The worst case scenario would be you need those three weeks to play rescheduled games. Maybe need more but I. I just think that. Trying to say we're GONNA. Play all of these on time. We're GONNA play this year bowl in Tampa in the first week of February, Elvis stuff seems a little bit. I wouldn't say misguided because they haven't acted on it yet, but it's. Optimistic Best Andrew Whitworth who had covid and had his entire family data as well and I believe nine for nine ways. He put it. It's Kinda tongue-in-cheek joke. He says I don't feel great about the joint chances not that it can't be done, but it's going to be hard this year to have a high quality of play and play to the finish. How do you keep the Games? Games fair when teams have key players going in and out of the lineup. I think that this is you know Philip. Rivers made the point conference call a couple weeks ago. What happens if someone test positive? Wicked Super Bowl Tom Pelser and I talked about those those options and those conditions last week, but this is going to be a really really complicated season, and I just you know. To Peel back the colonel obey. We were talking I was talking to my editor about story ideas. You know the next couple of months and this time of year. Is a Matthew Stafford or head you know good on hanging out with this Shawn Watson. It's like there's one story right now and. I guess two stories, you cove it, and then obviously the social justice part of it which will continue, but this isn't a. let's catch up with Matt Ryan type A year yeah. Yeah there's no training camp tour. We're not gonNA. Be Driving across the country and zero sitting down with your quarterback head coaches around the league I mean this. We're sitting here on zoom right now. This is going to be our, maybe our training. It's going to be very different, but yeah I mean we're in the exact same boat to. Cove is going to impact every bit of the NFL. Season and even things that we think are just about football. Are Going to be about cove. And it's going to be about the teams that are able to succeed despite. All of these complications, it's going to be the the guys who are replacing guys. Get Sick. I mean what about when like there's going to be a head coach gets it. And you know there's a lot of over sixty five. High risk coaches in this league. It's going to happen, and it's going to be how how well and how quickly does the NFL adjust and? God forbid somebody gets. Critically, injured critically ill at that's you know that's I? Think under the elephant in the room. CARE is that? That could happen and I'm not sure. and. Maybe that's what the players had started speculating about and started talking about through their tweets on Sunday was like to keep my keep our families safe because I think it's a really really real chance that. Somebody in the NFL sphere whether it's a player, coach and assistant coach scout of. Apparent of a player sponsored player. Somebody is going to end up. Somebody will probably end up dying from this. Outbreak and we saw it on the NBA Karl Anthony towns. Mother unfortunately passed away during that break and I think that as the outbreak grows across the nation. This this will. This is how the virus works. is that is that there are? There are deaths and I feel like I don't know. Talk with the at risk folks. I it. I don't know the numbers on over seventy coaches or over sixty five coaches, or whatever, but I think it's. It's kind of what you're saying I mean. Luckily Andrew Whitworth entire family recovered but there are a lot of people the. Players, coaches and executives are connected to that that are going to get this virus throughout the fall. And how does that play into the season? Yeah and I, don't they? Don't have the answers to that yet. they don't have answers for what's going to happen if. You know if there's three offensive linemen who test positive does entire group needs to be quarantined. They don't have answers for F-. somebody's wife. Get Sick, and then can the player because they're you know they're going to set this. OPT OUT DATE OF AUGUST I. It's hard to have set. These hard and fast rules dub lines right now when this bicycles. Gina Rossi. Pregnant and what? What happens if there's a medical emergency in the Seahawks, let's say this is all hypothetical obviously, and he's just like I'm bailing on this week I. Don't know if he would go ahead well. There's probably hundreds of Clare's. Whose lives are pregnant right now. Across the League, and did you see the tank the story about Jamarcus Lawrence. reduce we. He's Jeez debating whether or not. He's going to report. He missed the birth of his first child because he was at his rookie minicamp and kind of did the like I have to be here Rick Minicamp, so he facetime Denver, the birth of his first child, and for years has regretted that he missed the birth. Birth Mr. Style for football, and now he's saying I'm not GonNa Miss the birth of my child again, and if because of football I have to be quarantined and I can't be around my wife and go to the hospital, and be there to for my child's birth, and maybe I'm not going to play football, you know this is one of the highest paid defensive players in the NFL. You know very cheap. Person on the DOWSE. How was defense and I think we're GONNA start hearing more and more stories about that and this is the leverage point Clare saw to it. They don't have to leverage. We talk about this all the time rate that that the owners are not fair negotiators here you. Don't negotiate nicely here that the only leverage at the players have is the threat not to show up and not to play, and they're starting to push back on that and I think they're very serious and very real concerns that they have. When John's extend, we'll have you for some. Some good news. Next time is good news. We're going to have an emergency pod and just talk. Well have a great time. Thank you joining US Debbie Downer right. A Yeah I know when we started that. We've talked about this last week. The Washington stuff and then obviously the covered stuff. became more vocal point on Sunday, and so we just we just stacked bad news. Bad News, so that's eight see John's NFL reporter. Thank seven.

NFL football Washington Lindsey Washington League Washington Post reporter Peter King Dana Snyder NBA Covid Athletic Nfl Daniel Snyder Washington Molly Rivera harassment Rian Walker spotify
2019 NFL Re-Draft

The Bill Barnwell Show

58:21 min | 4 months ago

2019 NFL Re-Draft

"Hey guys still hear me. And Lindsey Jones are going to be redrafting. The first half of twenty nine thousand nine. Nfl draft in a minute. But I just wanted to remind you if you are not already aware tune into the last dance a behind the scenes look at the one thousand nine hundred Chicago Bulls Dynasty. Yes it's been moved up. The series begins this Sunday at nine pm. Eastern on ESPN and you can listen to the RAPA podcast hosted by Jalen and Jacoby. The immediately following the broadcast is presented by state farm an at and T. It's available wherever you enjoy your podcast. Check out the last dance and shake up the bill. Maher show in a moment all right joining me now as promised from the athletic by friend Lindsay Jones Lindsay. How are you surviving quarantine as well as we can drop down three year? Old is an adventure well. Nfl teams are going to be going undergoing an adventurous in. I know it seems like it shouldn't be harder to draft over as call than teach children. But here's where we are the. Nfl is struggling with the technology. They have to deal with in advance of twenty twenty draft so to give them a little bit of help. I thought it made sense for you and I to go back and reject just the first half of the first round of the twenty thousand nine hundred to prove that you can still do it without having thousands of people in a room or underneath the blasio fountains. Yeah I think I think we can handle it. I mean we're on the phone. We've got our computer. I think I think these guys are going to be okay. And they're all of these concerns except for a little bit with the IT technical security issues. But otherwise I think they're going to be fine. I mean I think at least thirty general managers are going to be fine. A couple of teams. I'm a little concerned about but I think the majority of faculty five I think mostly fine except they'll be one team not even like the giants pick but they'll be one team that just like their Internet connection will stall and they'll be stuck with twenty five minutes here so I'll give an example my prediction of a team that something is going to happen. It's the Broncos because we've got John elway on a conference call Kind of wrapping up free agency a week or two ago and it's like he was calling from Mars almost no reception. You couldn't hear anything Franken's PR was fantastic and went back and re asked him the question but it was. It was a little rough so given given that the issue you had with his cell phone affection at his home and their history with issues with the fax machine. They're they're my ticket struggle with technology. I forgot about the fax machine situation. Oh man or Elvis Doer Ville. Fortunately I don't think there'll be any taxes involved with the draft so that should help but you know I think they're my wildcard team for a club that might have some issues with technology like that. I'm excited I'm more excited for this draft than any draft in recent memory. But like I said today we're going to go back to twenty nineteen the first half of the first round and we are going to redraft. The I sixteen picks of that round to see what's changed over the course of the year last year. We all felt really confident that the guy has taken at the top of the draft where the best players now. Not so much. I have some players from later rounds. Poppy into the top sixteen here. There are some players who could be you know. Go from being sixth or seventh round picks to possibly being first rhinos. All looking at here in this first sixteen player discussion so Linzie. You're the guest. Let's start with you. Let's start first overall pick. Who Do you have going to the Arizona cardinals but the first pick well? I think this one's going to start off kind of boring because I think they made the right pick. I think even with hindsight Kylo Murray was the pick then and he should still be the pick now For everything that they were doing Philisophical with the coaching staff. That they haven't played I think it was the right move and if they were doing it again today I think he would still be there guy. I mean I guess the one you know sliding doors type of universe thing is if they decided that they could work with Josh Rosen and then they dropped Nick Botha but I think it's Cuyler I. I have a really hard time making an argument for anybody other than Cuyler Murray. Yeah I think it's both sides and I think I'm happy picking Cuyler here for the cardinals interesting. Because it wasn't like he had a spectacular season you know but but the offense did work wasn't like it was a disaster by any means but I don't know I mean what do you think. Do you think if you had to grade. Tyler's first year. It exceed your expectations that it meet your expectations was below your expectations. Where did it kind of fall? Yeah I think I think it's somewhat exceeded my expectations. I mean I think my my expectations for the cardinals overall was pretty low. Just based on the talent level across the roster a lot of the defensive deficiences they had I had a lot of questions about their offensive line But I think it works. It worked. Well you know and I think that they're going to try a lot of things there in Arizona. That might take a little bit of time to work in the NFL. But I'm excited that they're doing it. I'm excited that there's some new innovation But we're that there's a college or an. Nfl coach was such a heavy college. Background was trying things and doing things that most teams are not. So He's the right guy for that coach with Clusky Very And I'm just. It's been really exciting to watch this off season of them continuing you know. I I guess my my my thing is that I. I always just WanNa see a coach. General Manager Organizational Philosophy completely in line with who their quarterback is and who. You're going to be very clearly know who Arizona cardinals are and what their offense of identity is and you know for me that means it's working jack. I think that's fair to say And I do think that we're GONNA see a lot this year from Calamari. I think if if he has you know kind of an okay year. And you're too. I think you might be a little concerned after they did at Hopkins the Second Year of the system. They have Kenyan drake for a full year. Hopefully the offensive line isn't going to be quite as bad as it was two years ago. And it's still a lot of struggles last year but I think he's he's well positioned to kind of take that leap in near to that you would hope for the second overall pick I mean. Is there any reason to anybody but Nick Bosa now? There's not I think for every other team on this list. I have multiple options except for the niners. I just. I think it's so clear that nick both Is the right guy for them and just go back and watch basically all of their postseason games. He was a monster. And you know it's crazy that I just back in August being worried about him because he you know. He hurt his hamstring. I think the first day of training camp and missed a couple of weeks and said Oh. Is this guy going to be injury prone and then here he is like you know rising off the field like the undertaker in a in a playoff game and he very if the niners had won the Super Bowl. You could have made an argument that he should have been the. Mvp of that game Can we get here that postseason? I mean he's only GonNa get better he's GonNa Pass. Joey Bosa pretty quickly. I think as the Alpha male and not family He Yeah I. He's so good and the niners. It's unbelievable to me that the niners got him. It's still pretty crazy. That with the all the other high tech's that they were able to have over the last couple of years but you know they accidentally tanked twenty eighteen. We're able to get joey or get Nick Bosa. Do you think that t? J. Watt has passed. Jj Watt at the Alpha male with a family. Now I don't think so really yet give him a couple years sow just to do what was pretty good last year. He was very good last year. Then JJ got a couple of days. You've got a couple of defensive player of the year awards though that is true. You know. He's still has. He's still a ways to go but They had a family versus. The family would be a really fun. Reality shows that we have this summer. When there's a sport. Are you listening? May I hope so? I really hope so case. Let the first depicts. I think are pretty obvious. And you know you could have gone those with the first overall pick. I wouldn't have blamed you. I think Murray's the guy for me it seems to be the guy for you but I could absolutely been Bosa I maybe that changes things around. But here's where I think it's interesting because now we have the jets with the third overall. Pick they chose Quinton Williams gwyn Williams had a pretty anonymous and he's not even in the top sixteen for me When it came to this redraft I think he's going to be a fine player. We just he didn't show anything in the year one on a team that show anything really as a whole for most of two thousand nineteen. So who do you have the jets taking with the third overall selection? So I'M GONNA have the jets thing with defense but I'm having them go with Outside linebacker Josh Allen Okay. I think it's the best the best rookie pass. Rusher outside of Nick both Last year he was really really effective for the JAGS. I think he could fit kind of any any scheme and I would love to see him there with With the jets with some of those other places that they have in place and they really need that kind of like yes closed her. They need that kind of guy to be. Couldn't really was not that guy for them. So you know of the guys that was available You know I really liked Josh Allen and I think you know. He was a hypic already. I mean. He went seventh last year. But I think if we're rebuilding this that you know maybe some of the questions that chain about him. I think were unfounded. You know they can some of those like well. How much does he love? Football kind of questions and I think it's clear that he wind loves football and to he really really really good player and we'll probably be a good player for a long time. So that's where I'm going with the jets at number three. So let me ask you now be questioned that will rain for years to come in the NFL. If all thirty two teams got to pick between Josh Alma quarterback and John Edge rusher. How many are choosing the quarterback? And how many inches in the address? I mean probably more of them are gonNA choose the quarterback because teams. They're just so enamored with quarterbacks especially big tall white quarterbacks really strong arms so I you know I probably teens the way that they are constructed now and the decision makers that in place would probably still go quarterback but Maybe like twenty twelve twenty for the quarterback twelve for the pass rusher. I think that's fair. And I mean Josh Allen. The quarterback had a good year so yard out of the question. This could be a real dynasty for two players with the name. I think we're going back to the Alex Smith. Who is the tight end with the bucks as far as high profile quarterback and I profile player at the position with the same name so an exciting? How we had the Josh Allen Guarantee here in Denver with the two Brandon Marshall. Oh that's very confusing for a while. Even though they never played in Denver at the same time but it was pretty confusing and and still is confusing for largely for the linebacker brandon. Marlon gets more of the the messages that are intended for the receiver but Yeah actor that's funny so here my third pick for the jets. I'm going out of the first round. Ooh already going out of the first round. I am giving them. Aj Brown and the reason. Why go there jake? Brown is because he look awesome. Last year was phenomenal. And it might not be sustainable. Just be that Ryan. Tannehill had the year of his life and Nj Brown was on the other end of those passes but he looks like a a man among boys like he looked like he was just one of the most impressive players in the league with the ball on his hands last year. Catching balls twenty five yards downfield. He was a force of nature during the second half of the season. The jets. I mean yes I agree. They need to pass rusher for sure and they tried to sign. Anthony Barr to be that guy in it they did and then the kid but this eighteen that repeatedly has struggled to find weapons. Were Sam Darnold. Jamison crowder was fine. But Quincy Nuwa got hurt That's been hurt twee last three years Anderson this year and we don't know they're gonNA lose rb Anderson. I think this is a team that even last year even after free agency was done and even after the draft done kind of felt like oh they need to more for Sam Darnold Levian bells on enough. It's offensive line is still a mess. The receiving core is still mediocre. I mean when you're counting on Chris. Herndon the BA impact. Tight end bike. He might be that guy but we just don't know so I think if you know you're going to get that. Aj Brown from twenty nine thousand nine hundred. I think the jets have to take him. Because I think you have to get that weapon in place. Where Sam Darnold just to not only improve Dr but also just to evaluate him just to get a sense of whether he's GonNa be your guy for the future. Yeah I I agree. That he was on my list of other options for the fair but Yeah and then it was You know I'm not so sure about the receiver moves that they made free agency so yeah haven't haven't got around. There would have been made it a lot easier. I think maybe lobby Andersen go. There was trading her. Yeah Yeah Three. So Yeah Yeah. We won't see something for Sam Darnold because this is a make or break year for the jets quarterback at four. I had Josh Allen. Go into the raiders. I think it's the same sort of thing. The raiders diggity big year out of Max crosby on the edge of draft Colin Farrell. I just think Josh Allen Explosive. Pass rusher to the point you said earlier. I mean a guy who I think you know on Jaguars team or would have been easy not to care for. It would have been easy just to kind of be anonymous. He was an impact pass. Rusher and I think that's a really good sign for his future. But who do you have? Going to the raiders at four. So I actually had. Aj Brown so we had earth and are raiders. Picks flipped so I think knowing what we know now about how the twenty nineteen season transpired. They very clearly needed a wide receiver. you know. Dot Class April. They thought that they were Antonio Brown. Clearly that didn't happen I think they would've been much better suited to have. Aj Brown rather than Antonio Brown's so That's that's who I had them going and we texted a little bit last night as we were trying to. You know as we're going through our less than we although we we don't know each other's picks but no we talked. I asked You I did ask you do other. The rest of their picks still stands so like the peck say made in the late around and I was thinking specifically about the raiders. And that's crosby and like if they could land price later and get the production that they got out of hand and they wouldn't have needed to use their first of three first round picks on a pass rusher so that's why I went Offense and AJ Brown. It wasn't interesting so are stop at the athletic did A redraft twenty nineteen a month or two ago and our beat writer Bhaktapur. Shake up here for which I thought was a little interest. You know it was a little wild Yeah I mean I I get the idea that he's such an important part of their offense and you know the best rookie running back of last year. But I mean he better be. Jim Brown wanted to to running back. Number four is kind of where I'm at now. It's a big ask of any running back to the fourth overall pick. I will say I mean. I think there's a chance I'm not going to spoil anything but there's a chance Max crosby comes off the board in the top. Sixteen somebody alert. Yes alerts. So yeah so we split. At Brown Attach Allen there between three and four th Appendix J. Brown was the best receiver to me. I thought it should have been the offensive rookie of the year. I'm not upset that he didn't win but I think he at the very least should have been in that conversation. What's going five Tampa Bay? I have them taking Devon White. I have them staying with the pick. They made in the actual draft thought. He had a great season. That was much improved. Defense kind of lost in the shuffle of James Winston and the Jameis Winston Sokha when it came to giving the me another team of pick six. Start the game every week but I think he did a really good job and I think someone who the bucks can build around on that defense. Yeah I'm the same way there. Devon White was one of the the the redraft Pixie or to. Just stay with the guys that they had you know. I think you're this time last year there was also a lot of talk and speculation that they might go pass. Rusher there Debating whether or not they WANNA take Josh Allen for example somebody like that but ultimately knowing what we know now Shaq Barrett ended up being just fine more than five there. So you know drafting a linebacker light was was the right call And I think it's still the right call. They think the other possibilities as if they maybe would have gone offensive. Line could've offensive line there But I you know but I I think it's the right call and they. I think Jason Light would turn that card in five seconds or call more zoom it in whatever it is the new and and in a matter of seconds this year if they had the chance to redirect I wonder is it going to be just like like. Is there going to be like some kind of protocol for getting the pin? Yeah I mean I think there's a couple of different ways that they can do it. They're all going to be directly connected to the League office main computer for getting the call in but they all also have a cell phone to call directly to There's one person I believe office and Pete Peoria believers his name That if all else fails if like the the the zoom or the Microsoft teams or whatever it is that they're using somehow sales that they can call directly to this guy and get their pick made which is how we can assume that the general manager of the next on our list is going to be doing it. He's going to be calling hardline hardline with one computer. Yeah Nice paper binder. He had he had the biggest. I've ever like you know like like when you go like high school. Teachers would be like. Oh you have to get this. Is Binary Blake? I'm never going to buy into that. Big This was three times as big as that. Binder was insane. The size of the it was like three phone buckwalter many of our listeners. Remember what a phone book looks but yeah I mean it was. It was massive. So what is he going to do? I'm sorry we're totally going topic here but to draft night. There's like four minutes left on the clock and you know one of the scouts is running a name by him and he's like flipping through pages licking his fingers. You dig back all the way to the WS or whatever and try to bring. That is exactly what is going to happen. I don't see where that would be surprising in the slightest. Honestly I'm happy. He has a binder. Happy it's not a big filing cabinet of stuff. It's pretty remarkable that we're giants at any sense of their social media. People they live cam on. That's all I want now. You Really Shave alive. Cameron Dave Cattleman. Well we should get to the giants pick which is going to be. Daniel tuned in pick for me and then like I think he's. He's not I'm not. I'm so thrilled about his potential. I still think he struggled in a lot of ways in two thousand nine hundred eighteen but man. The giants need a quarterback and I think he's the best one available In this draft class at this point yeah and I actually like him better at six now than I did. A year ago I think the redraft or if we're getting to change anything about what happened to the twenty nine off season is that I would have changed what they did with ally and how they handle the. Eli and not who the actual traffic was sense that that would be my redo there. But I still think it's Daniel Jones. I think you could. You could maybe try to go through. Scenarios advocate where. They really needed a quarterback. So you know to take our MINHSIU I mean. I guess he was the second best rookie quarterback last other than cuyler. Murray but I still think that that's maybe our reach actually definitely a reach you know and they also have you know obviously so many holes in so many issues and somebody questions about why they're dropping is they are this year so you could make an argument that they should have just taken the best available player right down you know they could have had. I don't know who else does but we will get letters Mush Oliver but I still think they are who the giants are what they need. Daniel Jones is still the right guy there And maybe in this sort of redraft knowing what we know now. They wouldn't have gotten his hand for immediately. Yeah that's true that's fair and you know they could've traded down that's that would have been the fair thing with eighteen that has not traded down somehow in fourteen years. So you know maybe you're allowed. I honestly one year. Where trades are hard. Yeah I'm going to start calling people you know they're gonNA get low level scout in another organization to approve a trade and then run out of time on the clock in this their pick. That's that's what the giants would you in this situation. Okay I will say from this point. Four eight Oh hold on valve. We didn't bring Abby Joe Judges Dog who all right. This is my favorite story to come out this week. About draft crop is that Joe Judges. Dog is the only one who knows what's happening with. The giants dropped plans because she sits with her head on his lap for fifteen hours a day. So if there's any team who's going to have a dog make a pick and maybe should let the dog make the tickets. The giants again giant. Social Media. You should have a at least one shot of happy. The dog or like coach row on Abbey the Abbey the dog. I WANNA see abby watching film I WanNa see you with one of those in her paws. Go into the film. That's exactly what I WANNA see. Maybe they're torn between two guys like draft Pick A and B. They can you know. Give her to bowl. The food allergy goes to yes WEIRDO. You have ideas today bell. I mean we are going from being football writers social content creators for the New York giants which is an interesting path for us to take but Yes I will say from this forward. I have no more picks that were made by the original team. Everyone from this point forward is a new selection which I think is better. I mean I think these picks were fair but this went forward number seven with the Jaguars team that has a lot of needs. The you know to your point. Who Do you have some taking with the seven section? So I'm going to have them take all of her okay Taco. Who Fell. Yeah they do love. Defensive Lineman Obviously Josh Allen who they took last I I think if they had a chance to take John challen again. They would've taken Josh Allen Again But I you know the the board is the way it is. I have been taking at Oliver who I think was really underrated as a rookie in Buffalo. you know didn't just probably the position that he plays and exposure that buffalo gap. Sometimes I think he didn't get enough attention but I think he's GonNa end up being kind of the defensive line star out of this draft class So I'm going to have them going at Oliver. I did think about Menchu. They didn't think about it but I'm not having them take guard. Their shoe in the first round. I think they probably could still get him a little bit later. I think two or three years probably work Gardner when Shula. After the first year taking a lot of sense I mean at offer. I think there's a guy like you said who really only played about half the snaps in Buffalo. But that wasn't because he wasn't playing well it's just because they rotated there guys in and out and I mean he was. You know from the first week on impact player on on one of the. League's best defense is and I think you know maybe little unfair to judge him by the Nick Bosa standard where it was like. You know defensive player of the year candidate but I think a guy who looks every bit to be you know sort of one of the higher percentiles of what we might have expected coming out of school. I'm a devastating interior disruptor I went with Devin Bush of the hat where they're going to the steelers who I think looked really good kind of struggled a little bit towards the end of the year in the second half they gave him a few steps on third down but I think a guy who you know great instincts a guy who by all accounts looks to be the next great steelers linebacker Absent playmaker in the first few weeks of the year guy who was recording just intersections. Every week it seemed like I think a player who you know the jags did. They signed shepherd. I think if I could race that move and happened grabbed and Bush. I think that's probably a better fit for them. But I see your point about adding another defensive Lineman I mean they do. You need a defensive tackle after the moves they've made this offseason so Coming in a bunch of different ways but I think that makes sense. I think adding a defensive piece of that core because barely even though they were one of the best defences in football and came within a quarter of you know dragging Blake Bortles to the Super Bowl in foxborough. That defense has mostly gone any if you can get straight and it's going to be even further away from the defense a couple of years ago so pass scary. Imagine like the niners. Having one of the league's worst defenses two years from now and having seven eleven players on that defense gone. That's that's what happened with Jacksonville. And yet all the people there who well not all the people but a lot of people who felt that defense that almost got them to the super bowl are still in charge. All the people who took all the first round picks not workout super well besides Jalen Ramsey who forces way out of town. You know you're Leonard. Fournette senior Blake Bortles. You're not they fowler's those you know those people are still there and hey it's nicer dude again. Yeah like we had fun that one ear. So let's let's take four more years to get back to that point we'll see. I don't know but it's nice work if you can get it for sure. The BILLS BILLS. Picking with the nine hundred. I'm sorry are you gonNA get a call? Yeah that's fair I don't want it. Forgot the lions that they're going to be better this year. But who do you have to why it's taking so? I have the Lions Going out of the first-round from last year and taking chase which. Oh who ended up with the Patriots because we all know Matt? Patricia LOVES NOTHING MORE THAN PATRIOTS. Guys guys fit the Patriots Culture and so why not get a guy that the Patriots wanted? And he's also Michigan Guy. I think he did a fifth what they need. You know just the clearly need a lot of defensive health even though they did Patriot flowers last year. I you know I'm having can get I'm having them take the most patriots guy on the board a year early because you know. Let's be honest if Matt Patricia. Bob Quinn get their careers extended their they get their You know get another contract and don't get fired after this year. You know chase when adventures going to end up as a lion at some point just having them do it right now in our redraft. There's plenty night I just picture. They have like you know the Patriots Roster Whiteboard and just when they come free and just who they're going to target it's it's sort of staggering at this point. Just the idea that they're running kind of patriots by and be like you know bill. Belgium doesn't want him but he's still get enough to play. Yeah we want that guy. He's good I repair. I also think he's a really good player and yet the question coming into the draft And he's he's really like ball and God knows allies really like cool players so you know I think I think it would get allies and you know what the lions need to keep a really popular local Guy Home and that makes sense. I went with that Oliver here To the point for which I with Oliver. I think just you want to add an impact piece on your defensive line. I mean they just their masks. They need pieces everywhere on defense so. I think just adding the best available defensive player which to me at that point with Oliver Thought made sense for what the lions needed to do. But I you know I think whenever you think any of the pieces who were left. Could be an upgrade for the giants. They need literally literally everything I mean. Maybe they don't need a quarterback at this point but they just traded away their best cornerback so probably a good sign national unity. Cornerback what am I saying? They need everything they need. Every Fisher on Defense. Okay bills at nine the lions but the bills at nine. Who Do you have Bill Stadium so I'm going to have them taking wide receiver decay. Metcalf was the you know. I think they very clearly have been in the market for wide receivers. You know dating back to when they had you know. Antonio Brown for an hour in the nineteen off season you know Sunday. They'll be thirty thirty about that. Probably by the way Tony Brown you think about how much like now that we are in quarantine. How much time outside of quarantine you wasted or I wasted last year writing and thinking about Antonio Brown going to like five different teams for real. I know So yeah but very clearly. They've been in the wide receiver market. And I think he came back. He showed his rookie year at Seattle is that he's not just a workout warrior and that he's actually a really really good football player so I'm having him as the second receive retracted after. Aj Brown. And I'm having him go to Buffalo. I have the same logic but have nightmares the bills taking Carrie Mclaren where I feel like you can. Make a think exceeded. My expectations exceeded a lot of people expectations. And as you know physical force it. He was playing with Russell. Wilson and Terry McLaren was playing with Twain. Haskins and case. Keenum notice respect to those guys. But they're not you know. I think he's an author. They're not they're not on the same level as maybe the second best quarterback in football I think that McLaren on a different team would have been like national. A national highlight from last season. He was an absolute freak and had honestly a lot of places where he got open and his quarterbacks could not get him the football for what would have been a long touchdown. And you know. I think he's GonNa keep struggling with that. I think that offense is still going to be a work in progress but I think he is a guy who you know on the right team would be you know being seen now as a immediate superstar as opposed to kind of a guy who you know if you were stuck washing watching Washington games last year like you happen to live in the DC area guy who just flashed if you were playing fancy football or daily fantasy football on the right match ups or if you were unfortunately watching the occasional Washington game here and there but I think a guy who right right offense would be a absolute superstar already. I like it. I'm a I'm I'm okay with that movie. Yeah and you'll probably see Terry maclaurin on my left fairly shortly so we have the Denver Broncos hear at ten because the steelers in this scenario do not trade up so then Bush off the board of the steelers. Don't get their guy. They stayed put. Sorry who was a ten. It is the Bronco Coast. Okay right yeah yeah. It is the Broncos like last year. They traded back the steelers went up to Bush. They're the broncos traded. Doc took no offense just I got. Yeah no you're fine. We're we're on track here so you WANNA go first to the ground case. Sure okay so I have some taking and this might be a controversy. Pick taking joint Haskins Hari. This is in part because I want you to answer this question because you live in Denver area. You covered the Broncos for a long time. You are on the pulse of the fans are thinking and Denver. Why are we sure? Drew Lock as good. Like five games. Drew Lock Against Pretty Bad. Competition was enough for us to think he's the guy we're going to build around for sure like is that not to make a point about eight lakh to be a great quarterback after five games. He's not but he's by far closer than any of the other options that they've had since two thousand fifteen To being that guy you know. I think they're They really like everything that he brings. I think they like the complete package that he brings in terms of how his teammates respond to him the way that he works What they saw from how he kind of attack his rehab would. He had his wrist injury. That kinda size item for half of this year you know. I think they were way too conservative with him. Last year In terms of you know they probably could have brought back a little bit earlier and they didn't they end up playing a couple of games with Brandon Allen which still can't believe. That was the thing that happened last year. but You know I have you know they. They looked at Haskins last year You know they brought them in. They could have drafted him last year. You know I think they. They could've had him last year and they did not. I don't think I think drew lock was higher. I don't know the sure I'm trying to remember but I don't think they had entire on their board last year. They had drew lock. I do remember my favorite thing about that was Haskins when he does his top thirty visit. he came to Denver wearing a John Jersey that was like what his his choice of attire that he wore And I don't know. La was like flattered by dot enough for that was odd Odd or not so you know but I I like the idea of them taking Haskins you know. I think that they will take if we're redrafting. I think that they take a quarterback in the first round but I think they take to lock base. They are free or just you know. I was based on who they are. Who is still running that team? What they're looking for out of their quarterback. I think that they don't wait to take drew. Lock they just take him there at ten and make them their guy right away even though they had already traded for show. Which is another thing that happened. That seems bizarre to me that Joe. Flacco looking at Broncos Forum last year two things I will say number one. Do you remember when Nick when Joey Bosa went to the browns for his pre-draft meeting and he was in sweatpants and the browns were offended by him wearing sweatpants his draft meeting and really all he is is just way ahead of its time. Yes wearing pants meetings. I feel like if it happened now. We would be like. Oh Man of the people love to not like years ago it was like. Oh you defended the browns wearing sweatpants of course because he had a promise from the chargers and didn't care because the browser ever going to get to take him. But we didn't know that at the time number two to your point and I know I have to say this twin haskins six foot three drew lock six foot four true. I mean every inch account when it comes to Denver Broncos quarterback really. It really is true. Okay so eleven were sorry I just have to circle back to the joey both pants and this is why the browns or the Brown they fall to the guy for wearing sweatpants and Bill Belichick and the Patriots Have Patriots because they drafted Rob Gronkowski even after he decided to take a nap in the middle of history that if a player if a guy's really good you take him regardless of what he wore or whatever kind of quirky behavior he had a nice pre-draft visit. Are you listening to be honest with you at this point long? God and that was like three years ago. That was just to be fair. That was many many years ago at this point so the Cincinnati bengals cannot do worse than what they actually did. We don't know what to Italy is GonNa be as a prospect but he missed the entire season with an injury so anyone they pick who actually plays is a plus. Who Do you think the bengals would take at eleven? I'm going to have them take and I always mispronounces namely the elderly Jenkins Elton tickets. Okay we're again on the same page. But I think you're right. I think Elkin Jenkins is the appropriate way. I always mispronounce his name and I feel really bad about it because the yell at the beginning just throws me off but I think that they knew that they needed offensive line. And I don't think they were wrong to drop off into line and I think Jenkins was the best rookie offensive Lineman So I I happen going there although I was debating going there or going Defense and taking thornhill. The safety blended up with the chiefs because clearly the way that they've attacked read. You know until he got hurt at the end which to mazing that they were able to thirty census kind of able to recover and yeah we actually pretty decent and good and the Super Bowl without a guy who had ended up being. You know one thing a really important part you know secondary especially as they push in December so I was going back and forth ultimately I you know I have the bengals being kind of boring bengals and taking Jenkins but I think in a redraft situation. They'd look really hard at some of these back. Yeah I think that's totally fair. I have them taking an offensive lineman to and I just think for me. The best offensive lineman out of the Rookie Class. And this is you know splitting hairs. I don't think it's it's clearly one or the other. But I I haven't taking Eric McCoy The Saints Center. You had a great year and billy. They drafted on the first couple of years ago has not panned out McCoy. I could've played guard if price happened would have moved. Prices opposed to movie McCoy but they need offense. I'm in pretty much. Everywhere and McCoy had a great year for the saints who stepped in from week. One wasn't immediate starter held off northeastern who they signed originally to take over for Max Unger who had retired and just looked like he has a five year. Veteran from from week went on had to deal with drew. Brees getting hurt. You introduced from quarterbacks in there anything you could have asked for. I think he held up against and had a great season so same idea. I just think different offensive lineman but Jenkins makes total sense to I mentioned. Are The athletics redraft earlier? When I kind of Pan Vicks pick so our beat writer. J Morrison in Cincinnati and the redraw. He the bengals still taking jody Williams. Okay his argument was that How bad they were and you know kind of just like accidents. Tanking was worth it to end up with a number one overall pick this year so that if they were redoing it it would say just still be bad. Take the guy who isn't gonNA play and end up with a number one overall. Pick for twenty twenty that a really good idea. Can't I'm like I didn't think of it? That's all that's perfect. So that was that was Jay's In genius idea there and it's hard to argue with that logic right. That's really fair is hard to argue with that much it. Yeah that's a really good point. the packers and in twelve eighteen. That make the playoffs. Pretty happy would figure with the guys they take like one or the other selections are GonNa show up for me a little later on but I have them. Taking Noah fan the broncos tight end because I look at they needed receivers for Aaron Rodgers last year after Davante Adams they different guys Allen lazard stepped in from out of nowhere and they meaningful role but Jimmy Graham Grandma's not his old self. He was not even the guy he was in Seattle. He was an anonymous player making a lot of money and I think given how desperate teams are tight ends. Help given that. We've seen you know that market really teams are just absolutely Jimmy. Graham Gano tournament this year and Jimmy. Grandma's useless last year. Or How did the bears watches? Green Bay tastes and say yeah. That's the guy we WANNA give a two year contract with a lot of Garib guaranteed bunny tail. Yeah with a no trade clause. That's that's the craziest part of it's it's been no trade clause and you know there's no really impressive tight ends in this year's draft so I think the packers would consider pay. Let's get no offense. Let's get Aaron Rodgers now even if it is going to be two tight end sets with with grandma and fan. I think that's fine and I think that's going to be the guy who built around in the future when it comes to that tight end group and I think you know we saw you know off and on. They had some injuries. But I thought Noah Fan you know flash some pretty impressive plays for for the broncos this year. Yeah for sure. He got better as his as his rookie. Year went on a little bit. Some rough stretches with some drops early in the year but yeah I mean he's now very much part of the young offense of core that the Broncos have so the way my board has fallen though I'm going with Terry McLaren there. And when you said that if you know. He was in an offense with good quarterback He would be like a ridiculous star. so yeah. Mclaren's for the packers in that's redraft and man. That would be fun. That would be much more fun than watching him with Wayne Haskins case keenum. That's very fair. So the dolphins or thirteen. Maybe the other team that might qualify for the tank philosophy as they didn't have tanking throughout pretty much the entire twenty nine taste and until they accidentally got good over the final month of the year but needs pretty much everywhere. Who Do you have the taking at thirteen? Yeah I mean I think I think Christian Wilkins was fine for them there But in this redraft I'm going to have them take. Brian Burns pressure who got In Carolina I also looked at some defensive backs. They're you know one thornhill again Djemalidine But I'm going to happen. Taking Brian Burns is kind of the of the guys who are left on the board. The best rusher available. I haven't taking. That's crosby where Mexicans was a fourth round pick and maybe the numbers aren't going to hold up but again they need help everywhere. I think adding pass rusher place to start. Even the lack of quarterbacks available this may be one of the white receivers maybe decay metcalf or deebo. Samuel or Marquis Brackovic sense but I thought adding pressure makes sense. They added a bunch of young guys this year to kind of hope. One of them turns into a impactful. Pass rusher crosby wasn't impactful. Pass rusher in your one so I think I didn't cross you make sense. I actually have the Falcons at fourteen taking Brian Burns right after this. I thought Brian Burns honestly the first month of the year. He was as good as nick. Bosa he was phenomenal. The first month of the year any kind of slowed down after that panthers defense really sort of got lost in the weeds and really struggled but I thought he was. You know he was playing phenomenal football the first month of the year. And I think a guy who you know as we sort of. Look at this this twenty twenty panthers team and kind of figure out okay. Who's going to take a step forward and who's going to impress. I think Brian Burns is one of the guys who people are him. He could be one of the better. Pass rushers in that conference this year. So conversely we moved to the Falcons at fourteen and I have Matt Mack. Crosby going so clearly. Yeah so so yeah. I've gotten back crowd there. They very clearly need pass rushers in Atlanta And they should have taken. They should've taken from last year. And you could make the argument that they set. The thinking was right there last year with going ofensive line heavy and they just had some really bad. It's bad injury luck and that you know Chris. Lindstrom will be the great player their long-term for them but immediately I think tops Russia would have helped better and yes Max crosby. That's that's my guy for Atlanta instead. Yeah what do you think of? The rumors of the Falcons are considering trading up. I mean one hundred percent believe it because that's what Thomas from trump does does he. I mean he's one of the most active General managers in terms of trade and especially in trading up and and aggressive traits up. You know he's not just the guy who's GonNa like move one or two spots. I mean he will if there's a guy that he really wants to aggressively to what it takes to move highs so I'm not surprised at all that they're being very active and that they will be active So at this point I'd be surprised if they don't if they stay put where they're at but I just you know that he was not one player away I feel like I think they need a lot of help that I mean they every year. It's kind of like okay. If these six defenders to stay healthy we're going to be great and then you get hurt or or struggle or you know aren't very good and then it's like. Oh well loops then. You're playing guys off the street. Who aren't up to the task. And then if anything I feel like they should trade down but I think to your point. That's just not what Thomas Dmitri seems to do or think. Yeah I mean. To Dana's he's GONNA trade off. I mean you know. I'm not saying they're going to go all the way up to two or something like that but I would. I would be surprised if they don't if they don't make some sort of move up the board if they move up to. That would be crazy train. It'd be really fun though. It would be fun. That's true I want. I really want GonNa be awesome there. Oh sure it's great grady. Jarrett signed me up to like. What are you look at? What can they traded away their second round pick like they have to give how many first round picks what they do to make that. Happen Jones. I don't know that I never hear all into the wacky trades. We don't need to throw out your cowboys. Trai SCENARIO AGAIN. But very very logical trade for the cowboys. I've offended that you just otherwise it was I that was so funny about that is that I had so many cowboys fans angry at me. They can do think that Prescott socks. He's so good. I WANNA Stack Prescott. The cowboys should pay DAK PRESCOTT. A lot of money. But they haven't and I don't why it's not like prices go down. He's not getting cheaper. He's getting more expensive when Patrick mahomes contract DAK Prescott asking price is going up and if the cowboys don't want to pay the price that he is asking for now they're not going to like it a year from now either. So if you're on that that path and you're in that Kirk cousins scenario where you were just sitting there saying hey to franchise tax. I'm good I can go with free agency after these. Tv deals you want to make a trade. Now I'm not saying cool living off his like Yo. Yeah Cool Living Off his yogurt endorsement money and Mike host and Co host dinner parties for money. Like he's fine we we. We both had some pod with coverage fans as we cowboys had a rough week. All right. It's a fifteen. We have to Washington football team. Who Do you have them taking? I had a really hard time here. And they they need a quarterback So I had. I'm having them stay with Haskins adult. Love it. I really really really hard time. Here I put or Cherry Maclaurin if available but already put the Maclaurin off my board. He's not available. I mean maybe I'll come askins. He played better last year. But I think you start to figure that Carmen. She's going to be available in the second or third round. Yeah you know what I think would teams are looking at quarterbacks. They're always looking at what's their ceiling. And you know maybe half concealing his physical feeling higher I don't know I mean I. I like mintues a player better right now but I don't know I was. This is one that I had a really hard time. Which is why I I stuck with Haskins. Kind of like with a shrug emoji. Yeah I think that's fair. I think that's how they approach their team. Sometimes it's Emoji I went back and forth. I went back and forth between Josh Jacobs here and Deebo Samuel or became calf and the calf. Because I just figure Samuel was really good but I kinda feel like they needed or he needed Kyle Shanahan. They got the most out of him as a runner Which I think added significant value for him and I don't know that Washington would be in position to get the most out of deebo Samuel and his sort of unique skill set whereas became like a big strong receiver. Like he's easier to sort of game plan for then regained for an offense than people. Samuel and then just as good as Josh Jacobs was like. It's just value like I'd rather have a wide receiver letter runningback. So I think they need help on offense pretty much everywhere it could have been a spy for Jenkins it could have been a spot for TJ Hopkinson who would have a great Europe. Got Hurt and tight ends are so important but I think mechanics since you're adding a receiver to an offense that just needs help and so many different places that I don't hate that so last week. So it's you know it's very different now than they did a year ago. So I'M GONNA go. This is my one that I'm going like deepest and the draft. Pick here guy who moves up the most And I'M GONNA have them take J. Greenlaw the linebacker? Who's with with the forty niners? Who I think was really really good. He was on all the. You know the all rookie teams and everything. He was just round pick but he really became kind of this huge important piece about niners defense and knowing what we know now about the panthers defense and who. They need them. What type players? They need Linebacker it would be really really smart. Move there and I think he's I think he's a lot better than a fifth round pick. I'm having them that. This is my kind of my wildcard going way. Off Of what the the initial draft look like. But I'm GonNa have them take drudgery? Ma Be happy that makes sense I they have needs everywhere and defense so I see linebacker making sense I went safety darnell savage or the packers I think a guy who had a really impressive season injuries kind of slowed down a little bit but I think the guy who stepped in and looked like he belonged on a you know eight average. Nfl average defense. I guess for most of the year. I don't WanNa talk about the Niner's game when it came to. What defense did but that's a separate conversation? But they did cut eric read. They do have needs in the secondary. I think savage just gives them a playmaker and kind of a you know a leader. I think in the secondary the last year and hopefully guy who they can grow with. I think the team that you know kind of wants to build a defense that is up to their standards over the next two or three years. I think if they don't have burns wind up going elsewhere in both of our dress having savage kind of like you know a building block in the secondary which I think is a good place to start. Maybe he can be there Jamal Adams and become there but yeah cracker new leader like you said so. Yeah no I like that and I think we're kind of on the same page as you. They are completely changing their identity on defense return. Luke keithly the Post Boutique era though Yeah they they need some really young good defensive players personality so I'm okay without the condition. I thought there was offensive. Tackle Andre Dillard. I guess you know. I don't really understand their moves that they've made their this season. Yeah trading away trae Turner. I didn't really get that but So I could see them. Maybe we drop situation that they would have taken a pigging on offense of tackle there. It feels like a good place at sixteen to do that but I think defense is. The rate is the way to go such talking about the panthers and we're finishing up. Do you have any brief thoughts about the Christian? Mccaffrey Signing Yeah. I mean generally. I hate that the side of China running back two years before you have to. It's like they had to pay somebody right. I mean they have to have send that message to the rest of their roster to their fan base sixteen million if a lot but he is a really special and unique player. And I don't think we can look at Christian. Mccaffrey strictly running back Lens. And that's why he got the money that he's getting She told me twenty three which is like I mean I guess you know I guess you know trying to remember exactly how todd Gurley was when he got his extension two years ago. But you know we had to win the all decade. All Two thousand ten came out last week. We were doing roundtable discussing you know the clutch for like who's outside of what you know. Patrick Mahomes pick somebody to make the all twenty twenty team. And I I went we Christian McCaffrey. Even though I think it's extremely risky to pick a running back for something like that. But based on the fact that he's only twenty three years old right now and you know even if he's only house you know if it doesn't how they super long because he's a running back even if he has five or six good more years he's still in his twenties but I mean good for Christian. Mccaffrey to get to get that sort of ninety this early. You know he's going to be able to get another big deal. Probably you know by the time. Twenty six or twenty seven You know it's risky history. Shows that it's not going to pay off but you know at some point. I think they have to pay somebody. And he's the right guy to pay based on who they have left. I think I'm pretty analytics friendly. I think I'm someone who you know as opposed to paying running backs and I think in the long run but chances are they're gonNA regret paying this much money when they did but the thing I would say is like number one like how like. What can you ask him that he didn't do like? I think the the issue is once you pick him in the first drown if he fails the new screwed up and if he succeeds on you're stuck paying like you don't have a choice like I don't think they could credibly going. Start Locker Room and say hey look you were you know. Basically the entire offense last year and by the way. We can't pay you because running backs through kind of made that bed. You have to do that and then on top of that you know. I don't think this should be the biggest thing. But just if you're David Tapper and you're taking over this football team and you're looking at who the popular players in your organization. I look at you know who who. Who's jerseys are the fans wearing in the crowd? It's Cam Newton. He just cut leukemia. Just retired and Christian McCaffrey. Who here. We're not going to pay like you know I I just The big picture argument makes sense. I don't think Christian McCaffrey is going to be an exception. But I think once you got to this point you don't have a choice. You're stop like you have to pay the Guy. Because at the end of the day like like you create a scenario where if he was gonNA play while you have to reward him and they did and they paid him top of the market money because he's been the best running back in football the past two years so. I can feel right and Kim you of four hundred to. We're going to pay him at some point and it's better to just pay him now rather than go through let him hold out write this op these if there is an off season or have a very messy potentially hold out next year late exactly. So it's just you know you can. The big picture make sense. And I don't think you can stay McCaffrey. Mccaffrey is is definitely more of a receiver than any back. We've seen sign a contract in recent years but it's just there's not an alternative at this point. I think I think once the Bucci pick him in the top ten. You're stuck so we will see you. Don't drop running back from the top ten. Yes exactly why you don't take Josh Jacobs with the fourth overall. Pick which I feel fairly confident that nobody's GonNa take a running back in the top ten this year. They've got him and that's the top ten pick I you can never. Hopefully I'll be will overrule him. It'd be the Golden. Retriever would never dropped a running back in the first round. Abby could be a better GM if they get out of the question better than another conversation for another day Lindsay Jones Osa pleasure to have you on the show. Where can people check out more of the work you do over at the Athletic Dot Com? We've got a three month. Free trial going on right now so come on over. Read Oliver Stuff gained burglars. Draft Guide is insane and awesome so read it and make yourself show some smart during your dinner party next week awesome. Well Lindsey so pleasure thank you so much for coming on all right. Thanks so much to my guest today. The Athletics Lindsey. Joe's pleasure to have Lindsey on and we're GONNA come back next week another podcast for you. Probably pre-draft show if. I'm planning things right now but still a lot of stuff to get to and more. Nfl content to come in the weeks ahead. So Hooper staying healthy staying safe out there. Hopefully we can kind of distract you for a little bit with some. Nfl Talk but more of that coming next week. Thanks so much for listening.

football giants Josh Allen Antonio Brown Broncos jets Cuyler Murray Nfl Max crosby Patriots Terry McLaren Haskins Hari Daniel Jones Joey Bosa raiders Oliver Thought Denver Deebo Samuel
Never A Dull Moment In The NFL

The Bill Barnwell Show

1:07:06 hr | 7 months ago

Never A Dull Moment In The NFL

"Hey this is Kirk herbstreet. Welcome back to this great college football rivalry earlier today we miked up the huddle. And here's what we heard. He didn't what town it is ready for this game. We're not say smoke. Say Sausage pins in Akron. Talk to fire up that grew intense home gate Eckrich. Do you welcome to the bill. Walsh show I'm Barnwell. Oh we are back. After a brief holiday hiatus they so much for your patience is Tuesday January seventh twenty twenty. A lot of football stuff stuff has happened not only with the wild card weekend but also stay with some coaching decisions. We're going to get to that in a second with Lindsay Jones but first guys like this podcast cast you also want to check out the first draft podcast with no Kuyper junior and todd mcshay of course the NFL draft is coming up and they're going to have weekly podcast previewing NFL draft starting starting tomorrow January eighth but before the draft before the combine. We still have several weeks. NFL Action to go. We have some new coaches join. Join the NFL. As recently as this afternoon and joining me to talk about that and the playoff games is our friend with the Atlantic Lindsay Jones Lindsay. How are you? I'm good oh how are you. I'm good I thought this was going to be kind of a quiet day in the NFL landscape and then suddenly to head. Coaching hires in the matter of ten minutes. This morning Matt rule going to the panthers. Joe Judge going to the giants after Mike McCarthy was named cowboys coach earlier this week. So let's start with today's news. Let's start with Matt rule who gets a seven year deal. What sixty seventy million dollars? A lot of money. Samat rule to leave Baylor and come work for the Carolina Panthers. Yeah I mean it sounded like one of those Offers you can't refuse type of situation where I think he's GonNa have a lot of power he's also got a lot of money and A lot of years to do To do what the panthers to do. It's not quite a Jon. GRUDEN ten years one hundred million dollar type of deal but David Tepper is showing that he is not afraid to spend a lot of money to invest very heavily in his head coach and head coach You know when everything else that they're doing I mean they're building a brand new practice facility. They're building the indoor facility. I mean they're spending a lot of money Darren Charlotte and you know I. It was interesting that there was kind of story that also came out. The rule wanted to kind of bring that offer back to the giants Because he was going to interview with the giants as well but The giants said okay. We're going to hire JOE judge instead of paying Instead of hiring not rule it six years seventy million dollars or whatever it is so Really really interesting. Move there Bell what are you. What was your initial? Take on it. I guess and then I'll I'll go with yours it. I think it's interesting in that. I'm not gonNA pretend that I am someone who has watched every Baylor game this year. I've watched a little bit and I've read up a Matt Rule Essay coaching candidate. Now for the past two years of course rule was very very nearly the jets head coach last year before jazz blocked him hiring his own offensive coordinator which point he stepped out of that process and they hired Adam Gates move. That has worked out brilliantly for the jets of course in the afterward with that rule. I think there are certainly elements of a a run first attack. I think he is not someone who is seen as a a progressive offensive minded. They've run EARNHARDT Peos this year. He has seen that as sort of a you know. I can't deal with the devil to run as much of the rushing game as he wants to and I think that's very interesting given what we have. In Carolina we have Christian McCaffrey who's entrenched is the best running back in football at the moment. We Have Cam Newton who I think you know certainly seems like this offer. This higher would probably be good for him in a way back for him in a way. Oh you know good in that. The run first attack does seem to favor can if he can be a player who does impact game with his leg. Still which we don't know coming back from injury but it's pretty clear that you know if Matt rule wants to move on from Cam Newton. He's going to have plenty of time to move on and higher higher or or or or sign up backup quarterback or assigned a young quarterback or draft a quarterback and give that guy a time to develop so I kind of feel of two minds. It's for this when it comes to the biggest decision for the second the second biggest decision the panthers have to make this office and I don't know how you feel about do you do. What does this mean for you for Cam Newton? Yeah I I think the first thing is just how healthy is he gonNA be. What's his time? Line going to be like their That's the thing that just is over everything and has been over everything for the panthers for going on two years now I still think he's GonNa be back and and I've been I've been thinking about this a lot over the last few few days I've been writing about brees and Brady and thinking about all of the potential quarterback moves that we're gonNA see the offseason and well this time of year. It's really fun fun to speculate about. All the potential moves and this year is more interesting than any quarterback off season that I can remember and maybe ever certainly certainly as long as my nfl institutional memory is But ultimately moving on from a quarterback and guy who's taking you to a super bowl who's won an MVP Without some sort of really solid plan in place is it's a really hard at it. It's so rare that it happens so ultimately I think he ends up being back. I think he's there's so many things that you can do with him if he's going to be healthy but that if he's going to be healthy is just the biggest question that's been out there and We're not going to know that for a couple abundance I guess the good news is that they don't have to make that move or decision on Cam Newton. Today I mean they they really can can wait a couple of months but ultimately. I think that there are better team with him. And the options outside of him are just not that great. I mean. There's some intriguing names out there but I just think I don't think you're GonNa do better than Cam. Newton Can A new. There's even seventy five percent of the quarterback that he was in two thousand fifteen when he was at his peak. Yeah or even the guy who was playing well in the first half of two thousand eighteen. I think that can traffic is still really good There's a definitely interesting sort of dichotomy with that rule or I guess not a paradox. In that he is a very conservative. Very first coach. But we've we've seen in the report effortless. Hire one of the reasons that the panthers were able to Land Matt run into the panthers was because they're making a huge investment in sports science. You mentioned the practice facility being built there. I mean it seems like it's a you know. This is the the beginning of a major infrastructure shift for the panthers to being an organization that they wanNA emulate the steelers and they wanna be simultaneously Eh analytics friendly at the same time so I think it was going to be a really interesting sort of narrow path to hit their where they are a run for his team which is typically considered to be sort of a antiquated or old school notion but making it work and so I think in the long run. They might end up being more similar to the Ravens. Who seemed to embody all those things right now in the steelers? Yeah I mean that's absolutely the franchise right now that you want to emulate if you look at WHO's doing it the best right now from both play on the field but also what they're doing inside their building and the the mindset that they have with the type of people that they hire The way that they make all their decision I think it's the Ravens and I guess that comes from the steelers family and that's so so that's what he's familiar with. But I think the other thing that we we didn't talk about was not rule that we just really have to mention. Is that while we can talk about schematics. And look at his Ex's knows and yes he's run I but you know what college offenses he bringing those sorts of things. I think the biggest reason that he was this really hot. NFL Coaching candidate over the last two years. This is his reputation. That's kind of a program builder and The work that he did at temple the way that he really kind of overhauled Baylor over the last two the three years when they were really a disaster The the way he interacts with players You know he brought his father and his former pastor and coach and you know I just think that Dad's what made him so attractive in addition to obviously like the the the skills that he has. It's an actual you know coach but You know I think we get so caught happen. Like what exactly is this. Guy's offense going to look like or what exactly is this guy's defense gonNa look like when really what owners and management are looking at is. What's this Guy's vision? How is he going to interact after everything everybody in the building? How does he relate to players What is his vision? All those sorts of things not really why they came out rule You know a bunkers you you know seventy million dollar contract Jack. Think that's very fair and I think that's really what they're bringing matt rule to do. I mean this is a guy who they think is going to overhaul everything about the panthers. The culture is going to change not that rhinovirus culture was bad. Obviously it worked for a long time but I think you know this is going to be a eighteen. An organization top to bottom built in in the vision of Matt Rule on the other side of things You think about the hiring. The giants made today in Joe Judge who granted. I think there's been that those sort of initial tweets coming out the wide receivers coach. He's really special teams coach. He is not good for one year. He has been the Patriot special teams coach for a long time. He has worked under Bill Bell. Check US worked under Nick Sabin. Those are pretty successful people to work underneath and yet it sort of seems like not. Maybe this is wrong to say but it seems like this higher is out of nowhere. Is that fair to say a little bit. I mean he was. He was on that Raider. I was I was going back and reading. What are Dan? Duggan is our giants beat writer and he had him on the list of guys and part of that was because the giants were pretty transparent about who they were interviewing but he was kind of seen as this like dark course candidate where you know. Maybe it's the you know. The Sean McVeigh type of idea where you want to hire a guy maybe a year or two earlier than waiting until it's too late and Yeah he's he's not just the wide receivers coach and that's you know that's what his title technically is right now but he maintained his duties. This is their special teams coach. kind of handling a lot of there kicking game. And you know I think if you know anything about Bilbao check is that there is no head coach in the NFL who values special teams more than Bill Belichick. I mean he loves it. I mean if you want to actually hear bill belichick get excited and don't give detailed throw answers in a press conference asking belt punting You know wind direction and philosophies on all angles of punts and all of those sorts of stuff I mean he gets to go kind of weird but but you know so. It's clearly this guy. Joe Johns who's GONNA value Not just the kicking game but I think value the type of players that makes special teams successful. Well and I think mistakes sometimes that you see from young or first time head coaches is that they. They're so focused on one side of the ball offense or defense and not the entire team team and the entire roster and this is the John Harbaugh path. I mean John. Harbaugh was a special teams coach. Special teams coordinator started adding other duties his to him due to his kind of play before he ultimately became a head coach to fathom extra responsibility to make himself a little bit more marketable. And I think that's what we saw Joe Judge doing and it does seem like it's a year or two early. Potentially you know I mean he you know he his thirty. I guess he just turned thirty. Eight which you know compared to some of these other guys. I mean. He's older. Obviously older than Sean McVeigh believe older than Matt before I mean he's he's not like it's not unheard of now to hire coach in his You know mid to late thirties but it does seem a little early but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's not qualified. It's just surprising. Given the other guys who were potentially out there. Are you know where it was. You know if if you thought that the giants were GonNa Hire Patriots Assistant Coach when you thought it would have. Maybe Been Josh mcdaniels. Also Josh mcdaniels have been interested. NACHO judge so it's an interesting move I guess I just I feel like it's a little premature to like. Write it off. I you know there's a lot of like what the heck tweets and reaction and stuff going on out there It's it's just too early necessarily to know but I would say he was certainly kind of the under the radar darkhorse candidate there. Yeah I think absolutely. That's that's totally fair to say. I mean I guess. What about Josh mcdaniels? I think there's a whole other conversation to be had. Hi there about whether he's a viable head coaching candidate. or how promising he should be. I do agree that Joe Judge is someone who you know I wouldn't route to the meaning for good head coach because he's not an offensive or defensive coordinator I think carb is a really good example. One thing that comes to mind for me though is you look at Harbaugh's ause hiring patterns coordinator spots in his position coaching spots. He'll hire anybody and I don't mean that in like that he's like he's not you know he's just GonNa GonNa hire anyone whether they're good or bad but just he is very open minded about creating his staff see higher skies who came from different organizations. You know it's not the classic. Oh this guy work with me and this one other spots. I'm going to hire him. You'll hire people who thinks are smart from anywhere and and sort of that sort of Staff work and I think with Joe Judge. I'm going to be intrigued to see who he hires as his coordinators and who he hires as his positional coaches because I think if he goes out and just wants to hire. Are you know anyone who's worked for the Patriots. That's going to be a bad sign but I think if it's he's going to be open minded going to hire people who are who've been successful elsewhere maybe are out of a job. Because has their coach got fired. I think that could be really promising. And I know that In regards to the mcdaniels thing Danny woodhead tweeted about the string. Anyone out of courses someone who played the NFL for the Patriots. But are you more optimistic about those Bella check underlings and staffers as coaches given that bill. O'Brien's just won a playoff game. This week Mike Free will beat Bella check this week and Bryant Florist to pretty good job with eighteen. That was not actually trying to win in Miami. Yeah honestly think Brian Floor is probably the most intriguing op. The you know the the guy who makes me most encouraged about new guys that are potentially coming out if the Bill Bell Bill Belichick Tree You know I think bill O'Brien it's been kind of far enough removed. He's had enough other jobs. Outside of you know away from Bill Belichick and he's been in in Houston long enough that it's almost not fair to consider him kind of part of the ballot check tree now and he seems to always be on the hot seat and if they hit ended up losing that game to buffalo on Sunday and for at least a half of that game. It looks like that was actually going to happen Yeah I think that would make me a little bit nervous but and my grabble. Oh to I mean I think is a really good example as you know taking the best things that the Patriots to do and kind of making them your own. I mean there was. There was no better moment this weekend. Then the punt hunt using the time clock trek with the pond. I mean I I didn't see it live and probably gone back and watched it like no less than fifty times. Yeah so I think those are two better examples like the the most recent examples. I'm and I think the thing with Josh mcdaniels. Is I live in Denver. I was covering the Broncos for the Denver. Post Josh mcdaniels was the head coach here. There's still a lot of really really negative feelings I think personally I just really remember how poorly it went here and all the reasons that it went poorly we That I've been trying to get rid of those feelings over the last ten years because I think he has learned a lot and changed a lot But yeah I mean I I I think the thing with Joe Judge. Is that just coming from working for bell ballot. Check and from Working for Nick Sabin. That's not enough Like how much did he actually absorb. And how much did those two coaches let him in to see what they do and how they do it Because I was one of the problems. The Josh mcdaniels has was that he was kind of the protege. He was the hot young name coming from Bill Belichick but I don't think he actually was in at that point enough to see the exactly like how how dealt with players how he actually made those rosters and how he handled cutting guys and signing guys and You Know Game Game Day decisions and all of these types of things that sometimes the cats really kind of close to the vest I think he is now knows those things and I think he would be a much better head coach now. Albany was Ten years ago to be fair he couldn't have been couldn't really be much worse than he was the head coach ten years. That's fair absolutely all right guys. We'll get more from Lindsey Jones talking about the NFL in a moment but first it's a new year and it's the perfect opportunity to take your business to the next level by hiring the right people but finding qualified candidates can be challenging by using ziprecruiter ziprecruiter dot com slash Barnwell. You can make it easy ziprecruiter. Sense your job to over one hundred of the Web's leading job boards but they don't stop there with their powerful matching technology ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job as applications come in ziprecruiter analyzes each one and spotlights the top candidates. So you never miss a great match. Approach and Ziprecruiter is so effective that four out of five employers who post at Ziprecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now my listeners can try ziprecruiter for free at this exclusive web address it ziprecruiter dot com slash Barnwell. That's ziprecruiter dot com slash Barnwell. My last name B. A. R. N. W. E. L. L. Ziprecruiter dot com slash Barnwell ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire now back to the show the other higher. You've seen this week. Mike McCarthy going into the Dallas cowboys after that now infamous sleepover at Jerry Jones's house. I'll leave that part of it aside but I think what I find interesting about McCarthy is that there was a clear effort by whether it's his agent whether it's his camp you know. Bye Bye Bye Mike McCarthy to come out during the past few months and say hey. I'm not the Mike McCarthy that you grew sick govern green bay. My offense is going to be updated. I'm analytics friendly now. I you know I. I'm smarter than I was then. And you know I I'm not going to say that's not the case because I think it's unfair to say. Even someone like Pat Shurmur for example. I would just destroy week after week for his game attitude. Who was the browns coach? He he was pretty good when it came to gain management with the giants. I mean there are other issues there but I don't think that was his problem. So when it comes to McCarthy Are Are you optimistic about him doing better or not doing better because you want a super bowl but just are you optimistic. At the McCarthy we saw who sort of seemed to have outgrown or state is welcome in Green Bay is going to be different from the guy we see in Dallas Week. One of two thousand twenty. I mean I guess I'll say I'm cautiously optimistic. I mean it seems like an odd so much. What happened there so often? What happens is coaching cycles? Is that you hire the guy who was offset. Oh set you know if you just see fire. Who'd been there for one year or ten years of the case would Jason Garrett is you you go the complete opposite direction? I mean I think there was so much the the the feeling that when the cowboys finally moved on from Jason Garrett which technically they haven't skill under contract to their bonkers lost in the Joe Judge and not not real hiring. was that the first news that broke Tuesday morning. The giants had gotten permission from the cowboys to interview Jason Garrett even though they had already hired another coach which just blows my mind and now it's but ah centrally going to interview the coordinator with the giants hold another podcast probably The ideas that usually you hire the exact opposite you hire if you had a you know an old retread co head coach. You hired the hot young office coordinator offensive or Guy Coming out of college or the vice versa. You know you go when Hyer the You know John Going from John Fox to Matt Nagy type of situation. And this doesn't feel that different going from Jason Garrett to Mike McCarthy except for that like you mentioned it's really been this kind of Pr Tour for Mike McCarthy over the last month you know he's done kind of sit down with big sit downs with NFL network. Working with Peter King and Kinda talk about this kind of rebirth. And if that's true if he's actually followed through and that this isn't just GonNa Lip Service events if you actually really has revamped offensive philosophies and really added a lot of new stuff to his playbook and Rethinking the way that he handled analytics. And what has stopped is GonNa look like then. That's great news cowboys because I think that was the most. This was the best jobs when you look at roster The talent that was there especially on offense offense and he's got a lot of really really nice pieces to work with You know and then just the the the last the last wildcard there is. How is this going to work with him? And Jerry Jones and that was the one thing that made this job look a little bit. Less attractive is having to work for Jerry and having having knowing that the owner slash general manager And his son who is also the personnel executive are going to be out there all the time they're gonNA be doing weekly radio hits they're are going to be the first guy who's talking after games and it's not GonNa be you and that's not for everybody so you know maybe Mike McCarthy secure nothing himself Maybe he also is okay. Hey with you know not dealing with the Jerry Jones handle it. I don't know It's interesting I don't I don't hate it I also don't love it. I just feel like they could have maybe been a lot more innovative and you know widened their search a lot more than they did outside of interviewing Mike McCarthy and Marvin Lewis but I guess it was very clear that Jerry Jones may the direction he wanted to go and I guess we'll find out in a couple of years if he was right. Yeah I mean I. I sorta figured it was going to be a really big name. Head head coach. You know an urban meyer or Lincoln Riley or someone who maybe even a matt rule someone who was like me the splash hire. Who's going to get a big big salary and have a lot of control or the total opposite someone who was going to be under Jerry Jones finger who was going to be very little say and just sort of be the game day decision maker? I don't know offer carthy. Is that guy necessarily but it does seem like You know this is a hiring that that maybe deserves more patients than we're going to give it. I think like the first time he has a boring game. We're going to sit there and say why do the higher retread but the the one thing that I thought about this job heading into you this hiring processes. I thought it would have made sense for the cowboys to to your point. Go after eight offensive coach instead of Jason Garrett. who was a former quarterback just because you you look at what this team does well? They are great on offense Kellen Moore took this offense from twenty-fourth Dvi to second in DVD last season. Their their defense dropped off and I would have figured a defensive coach in trump hiring and offensive head coach retaining more would have made sense but now with this offense McCarthy's going to install what he wants to do. He's going to be the plague cholera most likely that either marginalize Cowan more or forces him to lead outright. I think you'd be a really impressive Offensive Line coach are sorry really impressive offensive coordinator if he's available on the market. So I you know. I don't WanNa rule McCarthy Out But I just think given what the cowboys needed. I would not have leaned towards an offensive coach. Mike Nolan sounds like it's going to be his defensive coordinator there Which I mean this is just business? I guess like two thousand nine. I don't know there's really big names. It's twenty twenty and we're still there it's like he hasn't gotten new names on his into his Rolodex like he might actually be using the physical rolodex. Jerry Jones. Last Mike McCarthy is so I don't I don't know I mean I'm not I'm not super excited about it. I mean maybe they just needed stability. Maybe they just need a new voice in there but you know it just it. It just feels kind of boring boring to me in a little anticlimactic but After all of this The build up everything would Jason Garrett but this is where we are but a lot of times the most boring higher ends up being the one. That's the best and you know. How many jokes have we made over the last? I mean shoot years but certainly over the last couple of months about how like any other coach coach can take that that cowboys team and take them to an NFC east title. We'll see now we'll see it's just another. Another coach might not take that much might not take complete the overhaul like some of these other These other franchises need yeah. I think absolutely we're GONNA get to see whether Jason Garrett was right all along and he's actually the best coach for the cowboys awesome. Hey he might be the next offense coordinator for the giants if things work out the way the same at the moment. But we're GONNA hit a break here. We're GONNA come back and talk about the playoff off games that we saw over the weekend here on the bill Bardwell show in a moment back here on the bill. Barnwell show. I'm still barnow. ESPN still joined by it. Lands Jones of the athletic talked about the head. Coaching hires before the break. Let's talk about the four playoff games from the wild card round four entertaining games unexpected. Things happening all across the board in four different ways. Let's go chronologically. Let's start with with Tennessee. Titans are sorry but the Houston. Texans I should say and the buffalo bills I have to say. This game was delightfully weird and chaotic. It had so much strange. Strain stuff happening in the fourth quarter. We laterals for no reason. We had forty yard bombs to fullbacks. We had to Shawn Watson and overtime making magic happen. We had a a eight. Just just absolute ridiculous ridiculous game from Josh Allen. Both good and bad. So let me start with this in terms of Josh Allen in terms of your perceptions of admitting into the season especially heading into this game did what you saw from him on Saturday night. Change your idea. Yeah about what Josh Allen can do going forward as the bills quarterback No not necessarily I. Actually I listen to you on with me yesterday and had I felt like we were kind of on the same page and I talked about this on Friday and my My Chat live chat leading into wild card weekend for somebody. Somebody impression that said like Josh. Josh Allen was polarizing player in the NFL. And I was like all right. I don't think he's most polarizing player in the NFL. But I think he's one of those players where you kind of see what you want to see out of him and and people who think that he can be a franchise quarterback what we've seen through all twenty nineteen and not just from that game. I think has been really reinforced but the questions that have it's kind of been with him since he came into the NFL. The questions that were following him leading into the draft. I think those things are all still there. I've always been fairly pro Josh Allen And I really really like everything that the bills did this off. Season to kind of Really unable to succeed so I still what I took away from. That is win their creative win. Josh Allen is not just heaving you know fifty plus yard passes in the Air I think they can be a really interesting and effective. Effective offense. I just. I hated to see them. Go from like at brilliant. I fifteen plays that they scripted and everything that they did on on that opening drive That was really creative and religious. gave the Texans defense a really hard time to what they were doing in the second half and especially in the fourth quarter where it was just like you know Josh Allen heaving the ball downfield which yes. He has a ridiculously strong art. Like we got that. I went to his pro day. I watched him literally. Throw you know. Eighty our bombs and you know eight at eight thousand feet elevation and the House and Wyoming. But that doesn't work and he's not that accurate on those passes and I think it was really encouraging about him. The season was that he was actually pretty good on those like short intermediate routes throughout this season and you know when he had those available and he was taking them. It was actually working and especially really worked against the Texans. I think that's where their weaknesses. Where and instead they were just kind of yellowing and the second half and And and that costs them so I think I think Josh Allen can still be their quarterback. I think you should still be their quarterback. I think you know he's still hasn't even come close to becoming. You'RE GONNA fully reaching its potential but coaching invade. Kind of really rain him in. I think they really need to do Continue the process of putting butter pieces around him And then coaching to his strength. Instead of you you know just letting him do whatever he did in the fourth quarter. Yeah I really feel like you know. We saw the Josh Allen from Wyoming in the fourth quarter and in overtime right like like the first half he was great. There was the draft. Pick six to be fair and that was a alia read and that does happen but you know he was in control. Aw He soon be a step ahead of the Texans defense. He was running the football very effectively as a on. Undesired runs he. It felt like you know the bills had a great game plan. And there were executing it very well and Josh Allen didn't have to do a ton he made a couple of very nice throws I think but but it wasn't like he was getting late going back to his drop. And then sprinting away and then try to make something happen and improvising and I think that's working working struggles because I think he you know perhaps rightfully give it has lettuce as supreme confidence that he's going to make something happen and when he does the dangerous things happen and then in the fourth quarter you know. He saw the guy who had played with inferior teammates at Wyoming for most of his time. There and the guy who in year one with the bills didn't have much around him and was trying trying to make something happen and that was a it got them to overtime but it was a terrifying terrifying fourth quarter. So I think it's just it's one of those things with Tashaun down where I think it's less about unlocking his talents and more just sort of limiting the mistakes he's GonNa make because I think he's just a pocket passer designed find runner and someone who is going to be a guy who on third down. If you don't see something hey run for it or throw it away but hold onto the football and let's punt and rely on our defense. They want a lot of games this year. Doing that and and I think that's not necessarily what we would have imagined when the bills drafted Josh Allen but back that formula works and it worked for most of his game until Jj Watt showed up and then it became the watch show during this game. And I it was you know I I. I felt like it was a promising Josh Allen in some ways and also just a reminder of just how far off the rails he can go whereas it seems like the opposite is true with Shawn Watson where when he has to operate in the Texans game. Plan it's a mess and the doesn't work and then they were an absolute disaster before halftime. An offense no catches there. Were trying to keep away from Trotskyist White and it was not working then. After halftime it felt like the Shawn Watson just sort of made things happen and was magic and you know it felt like. He had to overcome his coaching staff. As opposed to Josh Allen who has to work within the confines of his coaching staff. So here's instead of necessarily having a take on his. Here's my question then is when we talk about Shawn Watson kind of struggling within the confines of the Game Plan. Is that more of an indictment. You think I'm Bill O'Brien or is that more of an issue with your Shawn Watson absolutely bill O'Brien enforced. I think that you know There's so much talent here right like. There's so much talent at the key positions on this roster bill. O'Brien is someone who as the GM went out and made all these trades for talent for that offense. He went out and traded for Duke Johnson. And Laremy Tunsil and Kenny stills. I mean this is a a offense that should be cooking you without will fuller and it still seems like their offense is good as to Shawn Watson and John Hopkins improvising to make plays. Yeah I mean. They're the best moment of the season. Right was when they literally improvised Andrew Metric play against the Patriots which you know as exciting as often as it was and terrifying to see both of those guys take those massive hits in that game it was also a little bit? I mean it was really fun. I loved the backstory of it but it also is like you know should they really be bringing having to drop plays in the dirt and bring them to their head coach they. Hey we think this is exciting. This might work at help us. When you know you're supposed to you know quarterback guru offensive genius coaches aren't doing that so Yeah I mean it was interesting to see the massive change and their game plan from the first time the second to the second half You know moving to Deandre Andre Hopkins. I mean he was like mostly in the the first doctor that they put them more outside and all of a sudden he was you know he was a a huge factor in that game Had A lot more against the way in the second it happened in the first half but now I'm really curious what that offensive game plan is GonNa look like against the chiefs and if any of the stuff that they did that works when they beat the chiefs earlier. This season way back in early October If any of that stuff is gonNA work or if it's going to be another kind of frustrating game that we're just waiting for Shawn Watson to you know suspend out of three would be pass rushers and you know make stuff happen on his own or if they're actually going to be able to put a a really good comedy game plan around him. I mean that was a chiefs escape where Patrick Mahomes. Limited chiefs were without a believe Christians in that game their star Defensive Lineman semi Watkinson and play. Anthony Hickson play a Eric Fisher. Didn't play Andrew Wylie play chiefs without a lot of starters in that game so Harry kill only played about half the snaps in that game. Yeah Yeah I mean I remember it being a game where they really where the Texans put together one really commanding kind of grind it out Dr Late in the game Really really really really able to run the ball well late in the game especially with the Shawn Watson and I'm just not sure if that's the game plan that they can rely on Another time and you know as much as I love to Shawn Watson and I love love watching Shawn Watson. It's like they need. How far can not take them and still have some questions about parts of their defense? Their Secondary Jj Watt was kind of a nice boost. I guess but I'm GONNA be at. That's again and I'm GonNa be at this weekend. I'm going to Kansas City so I'll see I'll see that game. I was kind of my book that I was kind if begging on it being or maybe hoping that it would be the Patriots the Patriots against the chiefs. Obviously that didn't happen. I still think it'll be a good game. It's to the the best young quarterbacks in the NFL but it's a little less intriguing. I think some of the other divisional match ups that we got it. Yeah I mean I do think that Cheese Patriotair anybody better story but I do think chiefs tax could be a really fun game if both the team stars show up and are healthy enough to deliver a really exciting Game there in Kansas City. Let's talk about the Patriots. The Patriots Titans. I mean it's been a couple of days now It's been months since the Patriots offense declined. Hi and we sort of made me all figured. Hey they're gonNA figure it out by the time he gets the postseason and then we got to week seventeen and it was like. Oh maybe they're saving it for for the wild card round and they don't WanNa show what they're going to do against the dolphins offense and then there was nothing I mean they're just there is no plan B. They didn't figure anything out. There were some minor changes to the offense against the bills a couple of weeks ago but I mean mm-hmm they ran the same stuff and it didn't work and I guess I wonder you know in the conversation we're having about Josh mcdaniels as is a possible head coach about how smart this Patriots team is shocked. Are you that. There wasn't a plane being that they weren't able to find any solution to move the ball against a ton of good but certainly not one of the best defense in football. Yeah I mean I it. It's crazy. 'cause we go back even a month and it looked like or felt like the best breath patriots plays that they had their offense. Were you know trying to come up with a trick. Play here and there and they tried that against the titans failed or was the like. Let's just throw the ball open. Hope we get pass interference and not worked from time to time and then it worked in a couple of big game for them But if that's really all you have and so. I think that you know the big debate. Eight or the the you know the things that we have to consider now is it because they they couldn't come up with anything else. They ran out of ideas. They didn't have any more innovative plays or do they just not have of the guys that did they literally not have Good enough players and I think it's a little bit of both. I think it's probably a little bit more that The the the talent deficiencies on offense really showed up. And you know we've just for like you said I mean we've been able to rely for so long on that the Patriots we're going to be able to kind of coach their way way out of just about anything and not. Tom Brady would be good enough in the biggest moment to get them. Get them through those close games and you you know. He just didn't have anybody else he can rely on. And the one guy. I think that even thought that he could consistently trust and Jillian idle men dropped a huge huge third down in the third or fourth quarter third and sixth getting dropped and I mean or was it a second insects now but it was huge. It would have been a first down. I mean they're not could've changed. Well it was. It was a one point game at that point it was fourteen thirteen hundred most of the game and they were they. They had a shot And when they got the ball back with what it was about four minutes left after that really lung that really loves killing milking a minute off the clock. He's still just thought that they find some sort of a way but nobody can get open open. Brady clearly didn't trust really anybody on that offense and you know he just doesn't you know at forty two. I still think he's really. He's really really good. I mean I'd probably take him over half of the quarterbacks in the NFL baby top maybe top thirty. Even but if you don't have guys that you can rely on if if you're not building the right way around your agent quarterback then it's not going to be enough in the playoff. Yeah absolutely. I mean it's you know I mean this is not great game from their offensive line on a great game from their running game which I think was better than it had been in recent weeks but still recent so renegade meantime better season a gun on you know. This was not a game where they were able to run the ball on the titans by the way I looked it up sixteenth defensive. DVD's so just about average. And I mean it. Just you know even watching the dolphins game last week. I'm back and watch the coaches staff. And they were getting basic stuff in their offense wrong. They were just getting. The action passes that they weren't for a decade gain. The timing was off the place. They ran with Gronk last year as a blocker They're running back was beating the tight end. Who is trying to block to the whole like it was just stuff that just I didn't like the offense didn't get better? It's like it was getting worse in a lot of ways in terms of execution even as the season went on and I do think join. I heard a lot more than I think. People wedding on he was not the same guy after that chiefs game in terms of the Tennessee. Titans obviously a a huge win for them in the postseason. I think a game where you know. Even though they were matched up pretty closely and paper it seemed like everyone sorta figured now the Patriots of the Patriots. The titans or the titans. They're going to losing the playoffs. 'cause that's what happens. I think an enormous one for them the biggest one they've had since the chiefs victory a couple of years ago in the postseason an enormous game for Derrick Henry and I do think the Patriots Their Game Plan on defense was we're going to take with the play action pass and we're GONNA Force Derrick Henry to just run the ball over and over again and we're fine with that and I mean he had to eight the arts screaming and she was awesome in this. So does this change the way you feel. Derrick Henry would you give him a large contract this off season or do you think I think the titans are going to be more about the play action game regardless of WHO's running back. Yeah I mean I think Derrick Henry is very special I mean I don't think every running back in the. NFL can do. You can read it in that game. I mean he's I think he's so big and so strong and then so it's he's he's one of those like freak players Ah comes along once in generation but what I pay him no I would not pay him I you know I wouldn't give him a big expansion I just think Camin but that goes for everybody. I mean I think just about every running back in the NFL. I didn't. I didn't love the the deal that the the cowboys Ezekiel Elliott. And I get. Why the rams felt they needed to get todd Gurley the contract that he did and you know Todd Gurley as a you know? was you know kind of the the best running back and it just. I don't think the the the value is fair. And would you look at the workload. Derek has had not just with the titans over this year. But when you go back to Alabama when you go back to looking at his you know how much jerry the ball as a high school player you know. Maybe he's a you know a freight Gore kind of guy who can handle that sort of workload forever history shows us that generally that doesn't happen though so But I loved it. It's worked for them right now. You know I love that. They've figured out that Yeah right at the wrong previous titans regimes that decided not to use their their as their primary guy. And you know it it worked. He beat the crap out of him and he where he's he's kind of classic where a guy down gets stronger the more carries that he has But when we look at the long term future of the titans. I'm just not sure if that's the best place for them to be Investing being a ton of their cap space is into their into their running back regardless of how important Derrick Henry has been to this This playoff run that there Yeah I I I have to agree. I mean I think you know it was an awesome performance and I think he's. He's very unique player. But this is a guy who they were trying to trade as recently as last year's trade deadline You Know I. It obviously has transformed their offense but I I think they're gonNA going to succeed as far as the play action. Take them even in this game. Fourteen points you know the if if they play competent offense on the other side of the field they lose. I mean obviously they got pick six. which was that was like? I knew the Patriots aren't GonNa come back from the one yard line and eleven seconds or the yards. But I was like you know. Something Weird's going to happen here. And even after the pick six twenty rumor was sitting there saying this gives them a better chance now and it's like yeah you should have gone on down. It's like you know like I get it but also like this is still. It felt very dramatic. The Not it just losing but losing on a like losing and having confirmed by pick six just fell so final to me I. I was in New Orleans Because I covered the saints and I keep saying this weekend and was out we were out at dinner with a bunch of other sports writers and we had the we had this this game on on my phone and the medal table because we're all kind of following it on twitter and seeing like. Oh my God oh my God like this might happen and so we put it on and I think the second pick six. I mean I don't know cursing a lot on your podcast. I'm not going to do it. But there was a lot of like holy bleeping bleep at able because it was like just such a stunning and and it kind of reminded me the obviously completely different states and situations and the Games on different ways but at the end of the Super Bowl that they lost with the eagles where they got the ball back and then it felt like they actually were GonNa win. That game I was writing are like live game story like the one that has to get pose get filed at the two minute warning at USA Today. Okay and the you know they got the ball back about two minutes less than than that strip sack where it's that's just doesn't happen. That's not how these games and Tom Brady. Turnover and Now maybe now maybe they do. Maybe I have a really hard time believing that that's the last past that he's GonNa Throw for the Patriots. I still think once we get to March and April. He's going to be back Be Back in New England but but man I mean what a what a way for it to end. Yeah I mean absolutely absolutely I I still do think he is going to return. I think the odds are in the long run that it just makes sense for both sides for him to return. I can't imagine a kind of I. I guess I can't imagine eysenck where he goes somewhere else. But it just seems like it makes sense for both sides To have a to have a reunion. Like I. Just yeah I can imagine playing somewhere else and there are teams that obviously he would benefit from But I I just play who the Patriots going to have a quarterback next year and yeah I can go right right. Yeah I mean I love the you know the the storyline perspective of him playing for the chargers and moving into that new stadium and them actually being able to sell tickets because they have Tom Brady but like you know and yes. We've seen a few legendary hall of fame quarterback switch teams late in their careers. But this is a totally different would be a totally different circumstance. And it's completely unprecedented for something at age. Forty two or almost forty. Three what she'll be this year and yeah I mean the the Patriots question. There's like you know what would they do. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA roll Jarret Stidham. They're gonNA find Cam Newton Andy I I don't know I just don't think there's you know this isn't and the colts cutting peyton manning because they have a chance to draft Andrew Luck number one. I mean maybe it'd be one thing. If the the Patriots were son House awesome. There was number one pick in the draft and they knew they were getting Joe Borough but you know it's not going to happen and we all know that the the bangles aren't gonNA deal Major. Talk to them. That was not the way to do it. Taping their sideline and you want to engender some goodwill there and try to get the number one INTECH NAT But Yeah I mean I guess that's right and and that's what I you know. I I spent a lot of time thinking about that writing about that and I watch drew brees and drew brees and putting into kind of a very similar situation. Workers Contractors also voiding feels less Less of a question if breeze we'll be back with the saints And try and actually Sean Payton's and get asked asked about it at all He didn't even get any of those questions. That Bill Belichick was getting Unfortunately because it takes about a year and a half to get from the press the superdome press conference. Yeah I wasn't personally able to ask myself But you know there are some questions about like what's happening next with these with these guys. It was a really rough weekend. You're Kinda dot generation of quarterbacks After what was really a a difficult year for kind of the old guard of NFL quarterback absolutely. You're at the saints. Vikings is game and they will say you almost spoiled spoiled. What was almost the biggest play of the game for me with this expletive on twitter? Oh I did because I was ahead of reading ahead of you. It's always funny because it happens. A fair amount like Quin especially with playoff games. And I'll see like some like someone I'm friends with tweet like oh no or like a expletive nature and it's always fun trying like plugging lugging what's going to happen next and figure out what what it's going to be never had happened with the The Patriots interception in the Super Bowl against the seahawks which it was like kind of like something. That's about to happen to the SEAHAWKS. And I don't know what this was. The Dolphin Cook. Fumble that was a touchdown very one. That came back like the one that was down by contact which was crazy moment until the replay showed that he was down. But that Saints Vikings Game I mean. Was it the the same sort of thing for you where you kind of figured okay. Like you know the saints are keeping it close. But they're going to pull this game out until they didn't Yeah it ended when it wouldn't Vikings got up twenty to ten. It was like okay. This might actually happen now for the Vikings but then you know but then juries finally got into some sort of rhythm and their offense hence they were bad for a full three quarters of that game I mean they literally had nothing going but then he started seeing got into a little bit of a rhythm the Vikings kind of puckered it up a little bit and it looked like they were Kinda coaching scared and playing scared in the fourth quarter And you Kinda thought okay. The the the things aren't GonNa lose and heartbreaking playoff fashion again are they and sure enough I mean it. It happened but it was just one felt different and I was. I was at the Minnesota Miracle Game. two years ago I was at the NFC championship game last year. You know this one felt different. This felt like the saints thoroughly. Just they got out coached. She got outplayed. The Vikings I don't I still don't think the vikings are a better team overall but on that Sunday that Sunday afternoon. The superdome they they were absolutely the better team. Mike Zimmer coached a better game. Kirk cousins was the quarterback They had the better running backs They had the better pass rushers. They were just the better team on that day. I mean if they play over and over if they were to play that game next week I think the saints would probably win if they redid it but it And that was. That was the feeling that I I think the saints had to when they're in the locker room after I mean they were the guys that was it was silent just completely stunned unlike last year. Where they they were pissed off and angry and there was this feeling that you know the game had been stolen from which I think they were right? A lot of cases But this was like a a team that knew that they were better and they played really poorly when when they had a chance to potentially win the NFC NBA Super Bowl team. And you know. I picked that game to cover for last weekend because I wanted to see throughout this these three weeks of the playoffs. My goal and my plan is to like see as many as possible super bowl teams as I can and I went to that game thinking like Chris Games probably not you know the the state should win this game but I really WanNa see the same so i WanNa talk saints players this week in the playoffs. That sort of thing. I fully believe that they would go to Green Bay and win and and then having NFC championship game potentially New Orleans and that just didn't happen and they were not the better team and there wasn't anything fluky about it. The way that the Vikings won I mean they just were really good and their best players for the most part. We're really good. Yeah I mean I absolutely agree that they were to me outside of Baltimore the best team in the NFL. I think it's the playoffs and I. I didn't do any predictions but if you would ask me I think I would have said Raven Saints for the Super Bowl. I I would have felt like that would have made the most sense to me and like you said I mean this is not a game where they got screwed. Obviously you've got some of their fans otherwise but you know I. I don't think the pass interference decision in overtime. Even though it did give the give the sorry the Vikings touchdown I think it it was within the margin of error for pass interference where I wouldn't have been upset if it had been called. I wasn't upset that it wasn't called and it wasn't like the game was solely holy decided by that one play. I know it was the last play but You know the Vikings also moved the ball. you know seventy five yards on that drive In overtime over time it was it felt like a game where the saints just left the door open wide enough for the Vikings to to win. I mean we'll let MRS that field goal. Just halftime Shawn Payne mismanages. The clock in the five dollars of that game and you you know like well. Let's just one of the best kickers on Football Sean. Payton is is really good at managing late game situations. Typically the Saints Win Those Games over and over again and don't even have to go to overtime time. Usually usually they ended up winning them outright. Because they score a touchdown And to your point like you said I mean this was a really specifically GLIAC. Think a dominant performance from the Vikings Defensive Line a unit that we know they're talented but they took over this game. They were incredible double especially in the first half the second half the little bit which happens to just play so many stops but the vikings defense was not the same defense that had been in years past last heading into this game they. They were vulnerable in the secondary and drew brees was not finding those opportunities. He had a couple of shots here and there and that's the game. Ronnie really did get better but I mean this pass rush. Just eight drew brees up and that doesn't happen too. Drew brees typically yeah and The the bowler ability ability that we saw in the Vikings defense was really at their corners spots. And it really actually kinda matched up well with for the saints and I think there was this idea going into the game that was like Oh my God. The Vikings have new corners. Michael Thomas is going to go nuts and what we saw was but Michael. Thomas had a fine game I think he had like seven catches for sixty yards. But he didn't have any impactful plays and I think they were okay with like we'll give Michael Thomas. Those you know eight to ten yard catches but we're not gonNA has let him get behind us and they didn't really have anybody else who could get behind them and I think that was You know what we saw that this The saints that we just we saw that we see why why they brought in Antonio Brown's at least take a look at them and Antonio Brown you know torpedo that just like you for everything else is that you know for all the as you know is explosive as Alvin. Kamara can be as reliable as Michael Thomas. Kano always is they don't consistently have that type of Explosive Threat on offense and you know they had the one that that one big play where tasting hill through the fifty yard pass to Dante Harris. where it was just it was a beautiful? Throw a beautiful cats. You know Kinda really caught the the Vikings off guard there but you know the really the one time that drew brees tried to go downfield. It was a terrible throw a terrible decision. And he was picked off off and on the Vikings capitalizing scored that touchdown right before halftime and that really changed. A lot of the games to me was was a poor throw. A poor decision by drew. Brees was any But Yeah I mean Brilliant Defensive Game Plan I think Mike Zimmer. I mean the way that they moved Daniel Hunter and Everson Griffen Griffin around on passing situation. Moving the inside Getting them off of the Saints Tacos. Who are the best part of their offensive line and getting them you know against their Interior Linemen Andrews? Pete had a terrible arable day. I mean really really rough day interior. offense applying there. So it was Mike Zimmer. It was it was a great day. Great Day for Mike Zimmer and and for and for or kirk cousins to man I mean he played his off I mean he had a couple of huge I mean thrown over signed out and feeling was best best serve his career but he had a couple I mean he had he had a really big A couple of big throws on that third down touchdown third third quarter touchdown drive. Excuse me and And then in overtime who thought topic Kirk cousins was GONNA lead a seventy five yard touchdown drive in overtime including throwing touch on it. Nobody right but But he did it. He did it and he does a lot of credit for Lord. I mean this is a guy who even as his numbers were great. This year over the final twelve weeks of the year people counted him out and I guess I wonder now you know. Do you think he he beat the saints in New Orleans in a key moment in the play offs is that now the point where we say. Okay he's good and we need to accept him as good in the Vikings should hand him a big contract extension to stay in Minnesota after this year or if he struggles this week. Are we going to go back to. Oh well he can't. The Big One that saints game was just the flute. I I hope not. I hope this was kind of a turning point for him. Just you get you get that one big playoff when Behind him. You know the the problem is is that the the bad games that he's had in the Vikings have had this year has really bad. I mean there've been games where you're like. Why is like every? Have they ever run a passing game. What is going on? And then then there'd been these really brilliant moments and a lot of his best game and best moments have been on you know like noon central central time kickoff when there's eight other games going on and we haven't but the NFL world at large hasn't been playing close attention. But you know he's he's GonNa get a big marquee game on Sunday against the niners against Kyle Shanahan Against Jimmy Garoppolo. And it's crazy. They could win that game like I. I like like their chances going into the game against niners almost better than I did going into that game against the saints But yeah I I think he's going to be an interesting case. Yeah I do for sure and I think that I gave them virtually no chance of winning at the saints and I'm happy to be wrong. They play great. I have no problems. Admitting that I think the niners are not as good as a team as I know they beat the saints by two points. That was again. That could've come down to anything really. I do think the the saints are the better team of the two. I've been high on the niners since February But the Vikings have legitimate chance of winning this game. It doesn't mean that they're going to. They could lay an absolute egg. Are We Gotha going to be healthier on defense but I mean this is a you know. We saw better vikings team against the saints. And we've seen in a few weeks and I think that's pretty telling us well In terms of injuries final game of the slate from Saturday. Not a lot to talk about for me from this game in terms of eagles. Yeah I guess the big thing is the Carson wentz injury so the the conversation afterwards is whether it was a dirty hit by today and clarity do you think it was it. Deliberate Dirty hit by the former first overall pick. I don't think it was a deliberate headshot. I don't think it was one of those like he's trying to his helmet to do a helmet-to-helmet hit that sort of hit. I think it would be maybe naive to think that he wasn't trying to make Carson Lynch feel It though but I don't think that's unusual. I mean I think that's what becomes events are trying to do and you know really why the the NFL tried to crack down on those roughing. The passer after penalties and the landing their bodies but I just think it was a really kind of unfortunate collision where the body angles. It was the back of the helmet but I got hit. And that's where a lot of the worst pet injuries can come from when it's the back of the helmet which is a Lotta Times. I you see when the guys when when the guy's head hits the turf really hard that that's where the The concussion comes from Not necessarily from the face to face a top of the head of the head type of collisions I I don't I don't think it was dirty and offense as You know he was trying to give them a head shot and knock him out of the game But what trying to you know. Put a hard head on the quarterback back in the situation where he was potentially giving himself up. Yeah I mean but I you know I. I think we've seen a lot worse situations and I don't think today. Cloudy deserves to beginning Democrats grass or anything like that but I also don't think that Carson Wentz deserves to be getting Criticized for being getting knocked out of the game I don't think you can lump those into any of the other. The injuries that he had this was not as being reckless. Who says you know this was kind of just a really unfortunate type of situation? And I'm glad that he got out of the game when he had to you for his sake and Clearly wants to right. I mean it was almost spending that he came back in and play right away. Four five shops immediately after that hit But sometimes it it just takes a little while for them to see him and having to go through with the video showing but the mechanisms are a place that they probably should should have pulled them out more quickly when they saw the documents. Ah Get hit. I think that's part for me. Is that I think we watch it on. Slow motion does look bad and see what people would get upset about it but in real time name you look at everyone's reaction to that hit. Nobody thought Jason Peters if you remember for years ago ran across the field all to attack a Washington player. After Nick foles got hit by a late hit he apparently told me it was dirty. Hit which is a big difference between telling someone it. It was dirty hit and running across the field to attack. Somebody didn't even raise his hands up as if it was dirty watchdog too. I'm not sure he was even looking at the hit when it actually half half I tie. The guard was close to the play kind of like raises his hands up like is there something wrong. A few seconds after the plans but even then sort of it was half argued like there was just the crowd taking home crowd. When you see your tip your quarterback who has a history of injuries get hit? You're GONNA freak out. Nobody freaked out in the crowd. The commentators didn't even mention it until several several plays later. Like it was it wasn't innocuous head until you saw on slow motion and realize that it wasn't so I think it was a i. If it had been flagged. Yeah I don't think I would have been. I have too much to complain about. I can see why they didn't like it though. Because it was a very quick play and to be incidental contact and there was not that that sort of reaction of Oh that was actually a dirty hit until after Carson winces injury was revealed. Well now it's GonNa be it's because the NFL is GonNa go back and look at it and it seems to be one of those incidents where you know. They're going to look at it because of the result of it and not because of exactly what happened in the moments and you know any time. A team team loses their quarterback in playoff game. You know maybe they feel like they have to take a bigger look at it so I wouldn't be surprised if crowning ends up getting fined for it but I don't think it was something that was worthy of Penalty you know punishment beyond whatever it might be twenty thousand dollar fine or something like that that they enforced later which is which is very very common that plays The players are getting fined for hits. That were not that were not flying field absolutely The only thing I can think of that I really WanNa talk about in this game with decay metcalf who was enormous in this game. One hundred hundred and seventy yards. If I'm not mistaken I got the exact number but a guy who with a couple better three hundred sixty but with a couple of throws from Russell Wilson. He could've maybe had a two hundred seventy five yard game when he was dominant in this game for the seahawks and yet he was chosen a half dozen picks after. Jj they go whiteside he was not the first wide receiver chosen. Every team passed on him. He was the final pick of the second round. What did we miss to tend to have decay metcalf fall fall to the seahawks and be even before this game such an impactful player? Yeah I mean this is what it seemed to be one of those cases of over thinking things and getting too much into you the The exact like these measurable like what's his explosive speed like. What's his lateral? What does cone drill time and And I don't I don't Wanna I think that he was like discriminated against. Because he's so muscular but I think there's been a lot of these guys who bombed out of the NFL. Who are these just spree? Workout wonder kind of guys they were just so cut that You know kind of cut up that they weren't seen as being good football players and that clearly is not the case with him. I mean look he might not have come into the NFL with a super polished route tree. But there's a Lotta NFL receivers because of the way college offenses are played that come into the NFL. That Neil a lot of work on route running and Learning a lot of different routes and what we've seen is that he can catch the ball. He's a lot faster. I think than people expected and that He he can be where Russell Wilson wants them to be and you know Doug Baldwin. was that guy for a really long time for the seahawks and I was really wondering how they were going to kind of replace kind of that that guy that Russell Wilson just trust implicitly and late in Games and she's found it really really quickly and came back off and look you might not be Super Polish. He might drop them passes from time to time but he's really really really good and now. I just hope that those you know the next guy who shows at the combine with a sixteen pack is not going to be discriminated against the way that you cannot got flies. I is someone who also has sub two percent body fat. It's talk to be constantly discriminated against for being so jacked. But I mean yeah you know I I I really do feel like we sort of look past it and I think yeah I mean he's is not someone who you plug in and there's going to be Even someone like atomic clarin returned Clarence. RAFTERY is a little more nuanced. And he's a better route runner. Aj Brown his teammate. Idleness was a better on her. But he's been actually Brown's my coffin rookie of the year. And I think that decay metcalf isn't far off. I mean it was a you know I I. I think that maybe be different in a different offense they offense it didn't throw the ball downfield quite as frequently He would not be quite as impressive but I think to your point I mean third down the seahawks need a first down Pete Carroll we know Pete Carroll wants to run the ball and get that clock doc moving and they call the pass play and they chucked out to decay metcalf trusting that he was gonNA bring the ball in and he did You know rookies are going to inspire fire that much trust. They got the Patriots where they haven't kill Harry and barely used him Desperately needed they receiver to make an impact in the seahawks went to decay metcalf with the game on the line a and got a completion to seal the game. And I think that's really telling. Yeah for sure and It's GonNa be it's GonNa be interesting to see if he you can kinda keep stocking those kind of games and can have another big game against the niners and You know he he had hit something that's against the niners and we seventeen so or She's making the packers but he's he comes through in those kind of big moments and it's kind of rare for a rookie wide receiver to be able to have that type of impact and and he has already. Yeah absolutely so bunch of interesting games coming up in the divisional round. We're talking about them next week but Lindsay people want to check out your coverage on the NFL working can do that. Yeah so At the Athletic Dot Com and I also host our power rankings PODCASTS and even though the regular season is over we'll have a new episode of the parakeet. PODCAST UP TO Tuesday afternoon Lizzie. Thank you so much for coming on the show eight though all right guys thanks much to Lindsay Jones by guests and thanks so much for listening. We have more audio coming next week. We'll talk about the divisional round games here on the Bill Barnwell show.

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