20 Episode results for "Lindsay Adler"

Out of Chicago  IN-DEPTH!

This Week in Photo

30:45 min | 5 months ago

Out of Chicago IN-DEPTH!

"Folks. In this episode, I get to sit down with Mr Chris Smith, he's the brain behind the out of Chicago conferences. Able to the back to another episode of this week in photo. I. Am your host Frederik van Johnson today. I'm sitting down with my friend and fellow Chicagoan Mr Chris Smith Chris and I. Talk about the latest out of Chicago Conference and how that win is pivot virtual all that stuff, and then how how he's planning to move forward in the future amidst this whole sort of sea change in the conference space. Chris. Math. Welcome to the show man how you doing. I'm great. Thank you Frederick great to be here. Thank you very much. Is Good to have you on man I'm excited to chat with you for a lot of reasons, some of which will become clear during this conversation but Yeah, that's a cliffhanger. So. Say to chat with you so. For the folks that may not have heard of out of Chicago the conference, what is out of Chicago give us the quick. Elevator Pitch Origin Story of that conference. Sure. So out of Chicago originally was my blog like I think has been like eleven or twelve years now but eventually, we started doing conferences in Chicago. This would have been the seventh annual get together conference downtown Chicago where was this eighth year I don't know but but that was what we did for a long time and then. You know we've. Seen over the years that coming in person all the way to Chicago because people would come from around the country around the world to it that we found that it's better to go. To the destinations where people want to shoot. So we've started now our conferences are around the country we're going to MOAB and Acadia National Park this year and Death Valley next year. So all sorts of different places and really have gotten a little bit away from doing the downtown out of Chicago Conference. But this year we did it online instead and it was fabulous and basically the response we got from everybody was don't go back to how you did it before this is awesome that we can do it. In our pajamas from home, and then you know just just get to see all the general things because because originally the conference was kind of all different. Genres I mean you've been an instructor in the past and we would have portrait people Lindsay Adler, we would have people you know doing landscape we had kind of everything lots of street photography, and now instead it's like, okay, we're GonNa go to the botanic. Garden. And we're just GONNA do flower and garden photography or we're going to like I said, Acadia National Park and when we're doing. Landscapes in creative nature photography. So so that's kind of how we've changed. But yeah, everything's totally different for everyone now right. So yeah. So everything's really changed the last couple of months. Yeah, and it's sort of it's a I. think that change was coming anyway you and I've had offline conversations sort about the state of the of the photo conference in Education Online Education Industry and how that's converging and The old school conferences are the attendance was going to getting lower and lower, and now after this latest adventure with co vid Can't conferences are getting getting canceled and moving online much like yours did yours was able to pivot a lot easier than some of those bigger conferences in my from my external opinion. And you correct me if I'm wrong largely because you'd already built sort of this next generation conference that wasn't, Hey, come check out these massive array of boats that that people spend gazillions of dollars on. Downstairs go to the education. You're kind of flip that on its head. Can you talk about that a little bit sure. So I mean when we decided to run our first photography conference, we were running it and I had never been to a photography conference before I'm like, I don't know what would you do it a photography conference well, you'd go out and shoot. You'd get to hang out. With the you know all these people that you follow online, it's like a really great networking opportunity and yeah, we'll teach them classes too but it was really different especially like a set like eight years ago most places like you come you watch one lecture then stay in watch another lecturer then watch more and go home or whatever, and then go to the trade show or whatever. So What we built was really based around shooting, and so we did a lot of the street photography and the downtown architecture photography in Chicago but. But by switching it that way, it made it a whole lot easier to go virtual. Well, that's kind of ironic because we're doing the shooting but it we didn't have this huge big infrastructure behind. We're just a very small company. I have a few people to help me run it and they're awesome by the way and. Is. A great team that I have and and we were able to it was unbelievable when this all hit and we didn't cancel another conference. We weren't planning on doing this normal out of Chicago conference. We were going to do something that was just architecture. which we weren't able to do of course but. But instead. We said. We've got all these instructors. We had seventy instructors at the thing I said I've got a list of. All these people we could email them immediately, we can ask, Hey, do you WanNa do this while in the best part of it was that they were all stuck at home and so they're like, yeah, I got nothing better to do. So all these years. Yeah. All were like excited about it and I mean it was really it was really meant as something that we wanted to do. But it was also a benefit foot benefit for our instructors who had to cancel all of their workshops I mean, that's I mean that's their livelihood is going around the world teaching, and so we did this instead to help you know cover some of those costs for them that they that they're losing. So so we we just a matter of like five days we were able to we already know. How we do our websites, we've got already got the instructors. We've already got all their BIOS in their head shots and all that stuff, and so within like five days I emailed everyone they all said, yes, we'd love to do it. I emailed like seventy people thinking probably like forty will say, yes, I'm basically seventy said yes, and so it was like, oh my goodness we got everyone doing this and then we put it on the website and it was like five days later we announced it and we had people signing up like crazy so. We had. Yeah. So cool that is that is that's the classic. Here the story over and over again and Silicon Valley with these startups that are in the right place at the right time and you know they happen to have build this widget that the world has shifted in now needs that widget right and you're you and they're like, oh, I can't who? Can't believe the demand for this thing we can't keep up very, very similar in the case, the world pivoted, right? Yeah. Two years ago you and I talked I was thinking you know I want WanNa do like out of Chicago school but we're going to do all of our classes online similar what you're doing and it was like Oh man and so I was thinking about that and so I'd already thought through all the technology unlike, Oh, well, we'll just do this and this. And this and boom, which just had it some so very lucky. Really the most surprising thing of all of it was how it was received I mean I think we had more positive feedback from that event than any of the other events we've ever put on I mean normally it's like people are going crazy about it and then there's one or two people go. To whatever but. But people absolutely loved it like I said, they're like do not go back to the old method for this particular conference, and so we're going to offer these and we'll still offer our in person conferences. We're still going to run our conference in MOAB four able to this year in September and then in Acadia in October and with a smaller number of people. But I'm really excited about doing it that way. Oh Yeah. He's bringing up Moab you're on the website so. So I'm excited about that one. I mean the Moab one is all about astro photography, and so we're going to be shooting, Arches Canyon lands going out at night with these instructors. And so it's GonNa change a little bit from what you see on the website right now not everyone of these instructors is going to be coming and we're going to have a smaller number of people but I am really excited to try this out. We're going to do like a hybrid model like you and I talked about Frederick. So we're going to teach some of the classes online. We don't want to. We limit these to one hundred people though we still don't WanNA put one hundred people all in one room, and so we're. GonNa teach those big classes online but that means we're going to have so much more time to shoot out in the field and we're gonNA, have more time to do small group interviews, reviews, which we always do. But we'll have time to do all of that to do one on one sessions where you sign up with one instructor and work one on one against ask whatever questions you want. So I'm really excited to see how those go and maybe that'll be a model for us going forward that we can do smaller numbers and. And do it kind of a hybrid model I think. So I think that's the definitely you and I've talked. I. Think that's the way forward the in the middle of this this. Global uncertainty. I think the virtual model is, of course you know because without Virgil, you'd have nothing right now. Right. So Virgil is the way to move forward but I think part of the the seachange in the world when it comes to this kind of stuff is ultimately a hybrid model maybe even leading with virtual and for those that have the means and the fortitude to come to the live version there's something there for them. You know it's amazing. So I think you're you're ahead of the curve and you said, you said you, you said, you're you think you're. Lucky that that all this stuff went down I don't think he's luck. I think it's it's that old adage of fortune favors the prepared and the bold right so you were prepared we would definitely old. You gotta be bolted to dive in any. Any kind of thing that no one else has done before is you know requires a certain level of fortitude let's say. So let let's talk about that. Let's talk about the the conference itself right this last one that you just ramp one of the things that people love about these conferences. The A. The physical contact shaking hands with people saying hello talking to their favorite instructor maybe it's Lindsay Adler and saying Hey Lindsay I love your work. Hey, I'm having trouble with this thing right here my camera can you help me understand the inverse square law That kind of thing, how did you? How did that get replicated into the virtual world? How are you able to kind of quince that thirst? Can I just totally changed the topic which is when we had Lindsay Adler as one of our instructors used to teach physics, and so she's like Oh let me tell you about the inverse square law unlike. The physics teacher. Let's hear about the Inverse Square law. Boom boom, boom, boom boom, brattle it all off, and it was all right. I'm like that's pretty good. So. That's my. Lindsay. Adler story for the day. School Schoolteacher get schooled by Lindsey. Exactly. What what was your question? No was great. Did was a long question. So the differences between like replicating that that tackle physical experience in the workshops. And how that translate to the online world and inside of Zoom or whatever platform. Yeah. So I mean we tried to do as many things as we could to make interactive. We had parties we had small get togethers. We had instructors hosts like a small thing where okay. If you WANNA come and talk about infrared photography or whatever they would just do a small thing and the people would come to that and get to talk you know it's not hands on, but it's very just. One one to one or just a few to one you get to actually interact with them and their onscreen to. So they get this you know everyone sees each other it went pretty well. At the very beginning we have Bryant Peterson do our opening keynote presentation, which was fabulous. But when he did that presentation I'm almost afraid to say the story I'll say I'll said so. At the end of the presentation you know everyone's comment everyone everyone could ask questions in a everyone can get in there. We could bring a ten days on at any time like if we were right here on people were watching we bring them in and be like, Hey, what was your question? They could give it right there. But at the end of it, you know everyone was like that was amazing. That was great. Can't wait for the rest of the weekend and one personal is like I don't know it wasn't the best thing ever saw some kind of comment was like, oh, man. I. Can't believe that you would say that and to me it's like it would be what if we were in person like would you just stand up in the middle of the go I? Think it was that good. What do you guys think like? No no but so the next day I got on just like I am right now the next morning to kick the next next. Day off and I said, Hey, you know what this is we're here as a community You know welcome each other to help each other as much as we can, and you wouldn't say something like that in person and we're not GonNa do that here when we're at our events online and I got feedback afterward, one guys like I stood up in my chair I was clamping. Tell us. Yeah so I think the thing that was the biggest surprise was how? The energy that our team has still came across you still had some personal connections. But what was interesting for the attendees was that they could do a however they wanted they could be you know laying in their bed and just watch and not interacted all but the people that really wanted to interact they had ways to do that and really get in there and so that's what we're trying to foster when we do these types things. Yeah and that worries me too because you know we'll talk about this a little bit at the end you know I'm building this virtual conference that you and I are going to collaborate on. The one of the worries that I have is exactly what you said you know people people. Let's say they they. They grow a pair of whatever you know when when they're hidden behind their computer and the Internet. And they will say things like you said, they wouldn't ordinarily say to your face or in person in that worries me because the dirty little secret I think for a lot of online content creators we're human you know. An words hurt you know and if you say negative things does is not like, Hey, let me just send off this this. This hate-filled common, and then go eat a bag skills or whatever you know. It's like that actually goes to another human and impacts our day. I worry about that times at thousand or two thousand and three thousand or whatever. If if not that there'd be negative comments. But if you know there's a large contingent of trolls. Let's call him in there. How does that affect you like does that like did that one guy affect year the rest of your conference for you or was it after you made that little can't we all get along Spiel was Quashed after that. Well I mean it's a whole different thing when people are saying Chris Isaak. Take personally you know then so yeah. I go out of Chicago is Christmas very synonymous. Say that. I'm more just the custodian of the. Only. Thing. Sorry. My though so yeah, I just think that it's important with all the tools that you're gonNA have to use what this that that. Make It. So that people it's a personal thing that when they sign in their giving their real name, they're not just some random thing or they're not anonymous user logged in that that you know they they should have some. We should know who it is, and that's how we become part of the community together. So and most of the people, lots of the people that came to what are people have come to all of our things in the past and so. So they know how we run and. I kind of just like to think that. You know I try and always have a positive attitude filters down through my team that filters down to our instructors and there's a positive attitude. Everywhere we go and I think everyone picks up on that and some of the people had never been to our things when they first come in, they don't quite get that. But what's Nice is that so many of the people do and that really helps foster that. I'll tell other stupid story which is kind of like when I taught high school it's. Why am I telling all these things when I taught high school and I used to coach the Gulf team and so I was the golf coach so I'd get. Into my class they'd be like juniors and seniors like who's this guy or whatever you gotta be kidding me. Yeah. This is going to be terrible and I'd have one of my Gulf kids in the class and they'd be like Oh. No Mr Smith great coach Smith he's great and then the rest of the guys like okay. Cool. And it was like everyone's on board. So it's of the same thing you know what I mean like. Yeah you gotTa get a few people on your side and that helps everyone. You know I used to speaking of telling weird stories like that. So I used to as a kid I was into magic and sleight of hand and all that used to study at like reading these magic books and you know I learned one of the key techniques for like some magic tricks are having what they call a confederate in the crowd right? Someone who's right on the trick is someone who's in on the trick right. So how did you even mentally do that like okay hey, you in the middle. And then they just sort of play along with the gag to sell the rest of the audience and then everyone's entertained because it's all about entertainment. So yeah. Is Abbott inveterate there? To, let's let's leave the past in the past and moved to the future. So you're about to. Love. You've announced it yet but are you telling me what's coming up in the? We talk about Moab a little bit. But what's what's sort of the next step for the out of Chicago was called the franchise now? So. Yes. The in person things that we've got planned, they're still going to go they're going to be a little bit more hybrid. We're GonNa make sure that everyone's super-safe. But. Everyone in from the instructors to my team to all the attendees had such a positive experience with that I online conference, we're going to do a second one. But we're going to do a little different. We sent a survey out to all of our people asking you know, what did you really like and what could we do different to make it even better and the biggest thing that we got back was we want to go more in depth. Most of our classes were sixty to ninety minutes and it was like, okay this was kind of like the big keynote that they have given somewhere else or whatever and they did. It here which you know Kinda sidebar. That was really nice like if you didn't go to out of Oregon last year to see nick page talk all about how he does is amazing seascapes. Well, he did that presentation that out of Chicago live online and so everyone got to see that. But the feedback we got was we want to go more in depth we want to see all new content We want there to be even more interaction like we're talking about. And maybe time to shoot and get feedback on that and so that's kind of like. Well, how would you do that? It's online. So to do that, what we're GONNA do and it's going to be August twenty first through the twenty third that's the main conference weekend and we're GONNA we're going to pair up instructors so that two instructors are going to teach a big four hour block and really go in depth as a matter of fact, we're going to call it out of Chicago in depth and it's GonNa be. It's GonNa be all doing a deep dive on these things rather than just kind of you know this is kind of the basics really doing a deep dive and it's going to be all brand new unique content, and so the point is that those two instructors are going to work together and figure out how they work really really well together and. And make it awesome like that's cool Frederick. Is there like a person that you would work? Really well with you got to think about this we got have on, right would you be I would be honored to to come on? Yeah I think that's a really good idea to the the pairing piece of it because that's that's the nut right? That's the nugget that we're trying to crack, and that's that interactive piece of. That and how do you bring the interactivity and sort of hands on actually made myself a better photographer for having gone to that conference versus you know not to discount it but versus sitting and watching a powerpoint or keynote or even a screen share post processing demonstration you put the beginning of that in there I think that's brilliant. I'm excited and yes, live on or recorded on twitter I'm agreeing to come to Chicago. Good. Very. Good. I through the twenty third now people asking shoot also, and so the other thing we're going to do is we're going to give people some time after that, and then we're going to ask instructors to come back. Frederick doesn't know this and to do a quick image review. Afterwards. So go out and take those things you've learned, and then come back and those instructors are going to go over those images and say, yeah, this one, this is exactly what we were talking about. This really shows this this and this they're gonNa take like ten fifteen pictures from all of them that are submitted and then go you know these are a couple of things you could work on and make this even better and so so you're going. To have you're going to be able to learn something new, go out and try it near your home, and that's other thing is a lot of these things are all going to be about shooting you know not those grand landscapes not too many of us right now are going out to these places to get these awesome shots. But how can you get great shots just at your local forest preserve or your local botanic garden if it's all been and so So you go out and you do that you come back and you get. You get some feedback from from the instructors. So so that's how we're going to incorporate some shooting. We're kind of thinking about like what if you did the class and then we gave everyone three hours to shoot and then come back but it's like that's just a mad rush. So give some people some time and then come back and do feedback on it. That's the plan. Yeah. Do like scheduled feedback I. think that's great because a lot a lot of the conferences I've gone to. I call them the next generation conferences before the pandemic hit in all this the sea change. But like like, for example. Sue Bryson George SARANAC with the Portrait Masters Conference One. They had a whole area cordoned off the with instructors in there for portfolio reviews, and there were the cue to get into each one of those those instructors right? Because it's like the pinup demand to have people tell you. What's wrong or what's great about your work is there is palpable versus you know we're all working in these home. Office. Silos. And going out and shooting alone friends and family. They're always going to be gracious and like Oh that's great. You should make a career out of that but when it's a picture of your big toe or something, right Of, course, you need you need real feedback. That's great. Man That's that's great and you're doing it right right the whole the. Ask. You know the survey part of it, ask your base what they want, and then give it to them. Right period. That's that's the formula. Ask What would you buy if I was made this and then make it and then tell them you made it and boom. Article. Our goal even with. The in person ones has always been. You know let's make sure that when people come here that they're getting something, they couldn't just watch on Youtube. It's not just a bunch of presentations it's actually interactive. It's actually feedback on your work. It's actually shooting alongside these photographers and so that's kind of our challenges. How do you do that online? Through the screen that you would just watch youtube videos on, but we want to create something that's more than just you could watch it on Youtube and I. Think this is going to do it. I'm really excited about it. We've just started reaching out to instructors. And so we're really excited. We'll have landscape photographers will have some street photography we'll have flower and garden photographers. It's really meant for passionate enthusiasts. And there's a lot of pros that come to our thing too. But we're not teaching like wedding photography in the business of portrait's and how to do senior. We used to do some of that stuff with the out of Chicago Conference and it was like I'm not. I'm just not excited about that. So we don't do it. I kind of feel bad about that, and then it's like now we got the models and we got the makeup and we got all this and I was like Oh that's pain in the butt. So we don't do that. It's really for people that are just super excited they. They make photography a huge part of their life. It's a huge part of their creative life and we want to help do everything. We can to help them get the most out of that. I love that he were birds of a feather because. You, and I talked a little bit about the. Sort of foreshadowed it a little bit the. Photography Conference Center I'm putting together. Not a whole lot of detail on it to share right now there's a lot of detail all spreader can't tell all the secrets, but I can say that you and I are birds of. And that we're you know, this is a collaborative effort you know so. Be. You'll see out of Chicago and Christmas involved in this effort that I put together and I'm excited to do it because Leeann know like I said you or like you said, people don't want to sit through powerpoint people want interactivity people want a lot of the things that they can't get physical conferences and now it's sort of that nexus in time where people like you in. Hopefully me can can provide that and it's and I think both from a conference attendee standpoint. And the value that you could bring their as well as from a sponsorship standpoint you know, how do I get my brand in front of these people that are my customer base it just makes so much more sense to do it like you're doing it to do the virtual side of it and put them in front of those people, and then the last thing I'll say is targeting. Tacking away from the pro photographer segment, the wedding photographers the you know the the high highly paid new. York Studio for Tigers that's when you look at the pyramid, the pyramid the very tip is those people, the base and the mass of the weight of that pyramid are the amateurs in advanced amateurs that are doing amazing work but just need that encouragement and feedback and and all the stuff that you talked about doing. So yeah, I think you're exactly your train is exactly on the right track and it is going forward. and. It just really speaks to my heart. I feel the same way whether you're talking about golf and it's like I mean the most beautiful thing you could do is to be just a really good amateur Golfer. I'm not in it for the money I'm here because I love it and it makes me. Enjoy life and that's the same thing with photography and I think that. To me those are the the real photographers but those that's where it's really at is the people that do it because they love it not for somebody else and who wouldn't want that who wouldn't want to be able to go out and shoot exactly what you want to do and to be able to you know make a fulfilling life from that and yeah maybe then you gotta go back to work but. You know school schoolteacher Christmas knows that the definition Loosely of the word amateur is for the love of right. It's someone who does something not for the compensation for but just because they are compelled to do it because they love it, they're not getting paid for building a ship in the bottle with toothpicks. Doing it because they enjoy the heck out of doing that thing that's photography. And I remember going to some of those conferences whereas like okay I'm going to really figure out how I can make money shooting portraits maybe I'll do family portraits that'll be great and I went to a couple of I remember someone on a panel discussion pretty well known photographer going you know someone asking Oh what what do you like to shoot like when you go on vacation with your family and stuff like what do you like to shoot then and he's like Oh God. The last thing I'd want to do is bring my camera that would Oh, I got to get away from that and I can if I ever get to that point where I don't even want to do photography like I knew right. Then I'm like I just this maybe not the right path for me. Yeah. Yeah. That's that whole rich dad poor dad thing that that there's a book called rich. Dad Poor Dad I forget who writes a WHO wrote it But one of the things that I took away from that book in I think part of the book is based on that. It's the idea of the guy, the stereotypical guy or or or woman in the in their cubicle at work dreaming of their hobby they're their amateur thing right that they do after work they love doing it. Let's use that ship in the bottle think and then. Analogy, then they decide you know what I quit boss I'm going to go make an I'm going to make a living building ships in a bottle I figured out the Business Model I'm doing that, and then they don't realize all the other Kroft comes along with running a business and feeding your family and paying your mortgage and the pressure that comes from doing that being a professional ship in the bottle builder that and then they start hating building ships in the bottle, right? So the yeah. They start to resent in the end. You don't want to have happen with photography. You put a price tag out there. Now you gotTa do it. You can't just go grab the camera when you feel like blowing off steam, you gotta do it to feed the kids right? All right. It looks like the Gremlins have intervened in my conversation with Chris Smith. It looks like the power went out at his house. He's having some construction done on the house and. It looks like they may have Ted something they didn't have touched, and of course, dropped Chris of line. But I think we covered most of the topics I wanted to cover in that conversation. REMEMBER GO TO OUT OF CHICAGO DOT COM to get on the list and check out all the stuff that they're doing including this new conference that's coming up where he's pairing photographers together and building that whole out. Interactive. And feedback component that is going to be taking place August twenty first through twenty third twenty twenty. So go check that out. I will be speaking there as well. You saw him invite me. So, go check that out and we'll see. That's it. For this episode of this week. In photo I'm Frederik van Johnson was the next one.

Chicago instructor Frederick Lindsay Adler Frederik van Johnson Mr Chris Smith Chris Isaak golf Chicagoan Mr Chris Smith Acadia National Park Education Online Education Ind Death Valley Youtube Gulf Virgil lecturer Acadia The physics teacher Silicon Valley
Mind Your Own Business: Rosh Sillars Discusses How Every Photographer Can Stand Out

Photofocus Podcast

39:59 min | 8 months ago

Mind Your Own Business: Rosh Sillars Discusses How Every Photographer Can Stand Out

"You're listening to the mind. Your own business podcast ended helping. Photographers learn how to make the leap from amateur to pro. Hello and welcome to the mind your own business podcast. A joint effort brought to you by photo focus. On University this issue Mary Young and I'm joined by my co host. The one the only Skip Cohen. Wow, the one. One of a kind. In a good way, some people that would say thank God. There's only one hey. We've got a great podcast today. Yes, we do. Yes, we do have a great guest of and I'm just going to jump in and do my little intro here. So if you go back to October of two thousand, fourteen rich Harrington had this idea. Actually. It was a little bit earlier than that, but that's around the time. Rich Arrington at photo focus had an idea of. Let's do a podcast series. We couldn't figure out what to name it and then one day. When evening I said to my wife Sheila what we call it. She said. What's it going to be about? I, told her she said well. Why not just mind your own business? And that became there? It is that became the name so our guest was one of the very first to join us, and like I said. That was in October of two thousand fourteen Ross. Sellers is in the mind, your own business house today, and it's a kick to catch up to. He's a photographer. Consult the speaker, podcast or writer, but for me he's all about inspiration and motivation, so his focus is often on helping photographers develop a stronger presence everything. He shares on his website in podcast and on Youtube. Interesting enough actually applies to every business, not just photographers, so if you look at what we're all dealing with today, the pandemic has changed. Everything and Russia's multifaceted messages couldn't be more relevant than right now. We're GONNA talk about the challenges in helping you develop your and one of my favorite concepts that Russia's developed over the years now just to set the stage is a better way to explain it and I'm just GonNa quo one short paragraph from his website. Quote the goal is to make your competition irrelevant finding your and is the solution for example, a photographer develops specialties such as becoming photographer and writer. Maybe your passion is designed, so you become a photographer and a designer or photographer and bibliographer. You get the idea close quote, so we're GonNa talk about your and today, and there's so many opportunities out there right now to help you build a stronger presence. Not Not just because of the pandemic, but even with the pandemic so rush if I haven't screwed something up technology, wise here, welcome to my own business how it's great to be back. Thank you both for back. Yeah, this is wonderful. I mean it's. It has been a while, but I think skip. You nailed it when you said that this. This is the time that things that share and teach our. Relevant extremely relevant, and that's because a lot of what I teach. was developed during the great recession, and that's what helps me grow. I- photography business during that time and to expand my career. And so. I, the officially the end portion. What is your and was when I was doing a lot of touring around the country and I was. Talking with a lot of photographers, who had just great portfolios and they were. Coming to me with this idea like I, everything's changed. Something's different, you know. What I had isn't there anymore. What what can I do? And the thing is there are also other photographer saying you know I. It's hard right now, but I'm doing okay. In the one thing they had in common the photographer doing well. They had an aunt. They had something else something. That's separate themselves from the competition the days of just getting. Creating images that are in focus, well composed and reasonably lit. That's not gonNA. Take you where you WanNa go you need to. You need something more, and that eventually turned into what I refer to as the combination code, which encompasses a lot of other things. Oh, this is getting juicy already. Rash interesting is that skip mentioned in twenty fourteen. You're on this podcast. You're actually on mind back in two thousand fourteen as well. Just throw that tidbit on. March twenty thirteen. It's what is this. Everything comes full circle and I love that. A lot of your strategy was built developed during the great recession because We're kinda going through something like that right now. It's a little harder though now. It is their unique challenges I can't wait to dive into our discussion of finding our own individual, and for our photography businesses but I. can you just back it up and give us a bit of? Background how you ended up doing today. Sure, so it goes way back. My Dad was out photographer, but he he had a darkroom, and I was very interested in photography, and I had the opportunity quay back in high school to take three years of photography in high school. They came out of high school. Is One of the top young photographers in the US through scholastic and I ended up going off to cinema studies to. For my degree photography, and I immediately during that time started working in the newspapers, and I spent a good twenty years as a media photographer, and then eventually getting more and more into the commercial side, and so forth, but then of course the great recession happened you know, and at the same time I also was an Internet Geek. You know I head rush. Dot Com I mean I was. Really involved back to the bulletin board as so I kept that technology side right along my photography, and I helped to grow my photography business using that technology, and when the great recession came along, it gave me an opportune to start sharing that information with photographers, and and then two thousand ten. This. Young photographer started connecting with me and we're chatting and and I had opportunity meter New York and interviewed her immediately kids so much energy. And her name's Lindsay Adler. And, I like to say I knew Lindsay Adler before she was Lindsay Adler and we became friends. Even further and ended up writing the first, Book Digital Marketing Social Media For photographers in two thousand and ten. and. Our careers continued on from there. We. If, you haven't heard of Lindsay Adler these days. She's certainly become a force out there. That's for sure. And I've written a few books since then and continued I've have gone more mainstream some areas of my. My photography as well as my consulting and my marketing. So I have a media company now that involves. Visual obviously photography video, and so forth as well as the digital marketing, and that's where I am today, and continued to grow with the business is growing obviously the photography certainly. took a step back, but not dead I, certainly been doing some projects, our heads and things to do which we can talk about. Moving forward and actually pretty excited about what's ahead the summer I spent the time with some business plans and taking on some new ideas and concepts for some new visual opportunities, so I'm happy to share that with you, too. Well. You know there's so much that you just talked about, but I don't. I don't want to turn this into a podcast. Where we talked about everything that Ross did his background, but it is funny, brought up Lindsey because Shamir. I had Lindsay on his podcast. Probably what two years ago said about right something like that. Yeah, I mean I. was I've no Lizzy for a while not as long as you have. But I blown away by the fact that Ed Fifteen. She started her business. About that that's part of the story. It's amazing, but if I look at. If I look at what drives Lindsey, if look at what drives a lot of other photographers that all three of us here have an incredible respect for. Its their ability to diversify within within, and sometimes without outside of their skill, set through partnerships and other programs right now. We've got everybody out there. Dealing with the pandemic. We've got probably I would say at least. Two thirds to seventy five percent of photographers out there that are are. Walking around their their homes looking like a deer caught in the headlights, try to figure out what to do, and then there are some of us that are sitting there. We still we may not know what to do yet, but for example I'm struck by the number of opportunities there are. For photographers, because everybody everybody now with the wanted mid or not, as victim of the pandemic can change that it. It wasn't in our control, and we're all victims, but that also means is an opportunity for everybody to rebuild essentially rebuild their presence, not not their business of the reputation. Because hopefully you had something going there to begin with. But. What's what's your feeling on on the opportunities that that are most relevant right now for photographers just as art, but also as small business owners to stand out sure well. There's more than ever I mean. One thing I've been talking about lately. You. Guys probably remember the turn of the century two thousand. and. Digital, really coming into play and how? I'm sure you know of a number of photographers who quit during that time because of the change in a number of tarver suits. Just like this is everything's changing this digital thing. This is crazy. This is just wrong this. The thing is there's one constant photography. Of course. We know what that is change while they're actually there to constance. Change in the second one is photographers complaining about the change. That's always the case. It is different today than it was twenty years ago, but those people twenty years ago. Who in digital and we're all high mighty looking at those analog photographers, saying you know you just get with the times, are today trying to figure out what to do next and are complaining and wondering what happened to twenty years ago and the photographers five years from now ten years ago from now and twenty years from now we're gonNA. Be Complaining, wishing it was the good old days at twenty years ago. And I think a lot of talk. We're getting their groove. The get a business model together, and they think that's the way it's going to be forever. And it's not. It will always change in if you WANNA be relevant. Five years from now you have to understand what is changing. There's more opportunity than ever for. Artists, maybe not the same type of image creation. It was before and the same needs because what is often changing the accessibility to photography. The, wave photographers created images and eighteen fifty is much different than nineteen fifty and will be different in twenty fifty. It continuously changes so we have things such as augmented reality. That that's something I'm really excited about because that's a lot of video. As even design, and even and still photography meshed into one. Think of it this way. Think of handing over Your Business Card Think of someone looking at Your Business Card saying. Where's your presentation? What do you mean well? Everybody's phone now. Automatically clicks on qr codes and I. Say Wait a minute. CUE CARDS A so dead. No, it's just the beginning because that Qr code will trigger to a website which automatically make your business card come alive in. This is new website. And that business card will have buttons in has video in your portfolio. Has Everything right there just like you're? Just just like a website. If you want it to be, it could be you talking and explaining who you are adding more dimension. You think of a real estate agent who? They give you those calendars. You could put your phone up to them. Trigger next thing you know. The face on that calendar is talking to you telling you about the latest in housing. What's available locally? I mean anything can be triggered. It could be on the side of a building well. This is giving photographers videography I if played right. A wonderful opportunity for regular updated content more content. That's needed. There's more content and needed online for social. I know a lot of photography listening to this. Photograph websites and other social, so there's so many I could go on for an hour now. The House staffer the moment, but there is so much available today, but you have to about what's next, not trying to hold onto what was. It Oh. It's funny when you talked about. Of the history of photography years when I used to do a workshop, I would talk about all those people complained years and years ago about color photography coming in fortunately. I'm not that. But they talked about it. A black and white photographers talked about how the industry is going to hell. Because now we got color and autofocus came in, and I remember Kalua Matt. Throwing Nikon out, because Nikon had refused hit announced they were not they were no longer going to make manual focus lenses. The world was changing, then came digital, which you mentioned before and I remember I can't think of who was. Chautauqua pers-. Talking about digital was the next best thing the next new thing, and you had the same thing again now if you look at and then the Internet came along, and the Internet has totally changed the way we share images, but now it's changed the way we communicate, and if you look at all of those, I'm willing to bet the took a person that is about to give up today because of the pandemic or they gave up, because digital became a product of something. They need to look at ten years ago. If you go back to their family history, you'll find somewhere one of their relatives that I complained about color. Black and white, and if you really think about it, we are very close to the scene in the first star wars movie. Where are two? D? Two POPs up. The hologram of princess lay a you know telling command. What's coming? We're there. So and silently it's it's just remarkable in terms of where the opportunities are and I find I. Don't know how you deal with it because I find it outrageously frustrating. When I get to talk, I want to throw in the towel now if they want to throw in the towel and you're looking at the fact that they've just lost interest, or maybe they didn't love it to begin with, but if you've got the. For this. Then there's that old line about in a before. You give up, remember. What kept you going this long in the first place? and. I hate seeing people. Give up when they're on the one yard line so close to a touch that. A whole bunch of That one. No. You're absolutely right though I mean look we are. Imagery has never been more needed today and I bet I said that in two thousand fourteen on the last podcasts, and it's even greater today now granted, there are more photographers more competition, but that leads to the idea of your and and the combination. You need separate yourself from the competition again. Just doing average work is not going to get you where you WanNa go, but there is more opportunity in, and honestly the reality is there has been. The reality is in this crisis. We. We can't get out there. We can't meet with people in the same way. We could just a few months ago and that that's something different. The great recession great recession had to do with maybe working a little bit harder, making adjustments, but getting out there being stuck at home kind of is a different issue, but it is an opportunity for you to start thinking about writing down all the ways that you can combine your photography your course drinks with something new, and maybe learn something new. Is You know someone may be listened to augmented reality or virtual reality or I know nothing about that well. You knew nothing about photoshop at one time to. And you may want to take the time to discover what those things are that you can apply and combined with your photography, so you can come out of the gate running with something that people will desire so this is super interesting. Let's let's dig into this a little bit more because I'm sure there are listeners who are wondering well. How do we have any kind of started to dig into this a little bit, but lifted deeper the process of discovering. Our and in taking advantage of these new opportunities as our industry changes as a whole for the photographer who's listening and this is partially for myself, too, because every guest on the show always taking those and learning, you know how to refine my own business. For someone WHO's listening? Who has no idea what they're and? Could be or should be. How do they go about? Discovering that. What's the process. Sure the first, the first step is to understand what your core is. You know who are you? What are you best at? And in taking it from there and one thing and say. Well I'll get to new moment, but. Take that core and start looking at. Fashion at design start looking at technology technology is a big one. And you know you don't have to totally reinvent things, but you can certainly apply maybe trends that are out there in the world that you could apply to what you were doing in a way that other people are not or few are not. You can always find inspiration for other people look in different industries. What's going on within another industry? Is there something happening within an industry? Industry that are photography could help. Here's the big word solve problems, and if you can be out there for them, see a lot of times. We're in the photography I love photography I love creating images and everybody should just love the images I create. Let me tell you something you know we you know how many beautiful incredible amazing and I'm sure you've talked about many times before. Amazing photographs that are. On a smartphone and posted to instagram. I mean there were inundated with tons of great photography, so it has to be different, good quality, composition and lighting, and you know in focus is not the key to target used to be. Mean to be a magic black box. And coming out just competent seem to work pretty well for quite a few years, but that's not the way anymore, so you do need to think and you can start thinking of extremes. You know I'd like to use the example. What if I could and honestly? That's what I often have done with especially technology. And you know in the early days, just think how can I can't wait until I can print my first car at four by six card to share with people, so they can see my images and I can update it all the time and. That will be such an advantage and I was doing this when I literally had to take a slot, find a company that had a high density. Monitor and create a slide from it and then have prints made from that. And then it just over time kept getting better and easier to do such things, and now all we have to upload a photo shelter or wherever you want, and just have it printed or go to your local. I mean things like that are like second nature now, but you have to be that far ahead. You're thinking what if I do this? What do I need to do to make it a reality thinking of those extremes. That's what Amazon does. I hate to use that same old. Cliche, but that's what they're doing now. Not just can we deliver this, but can we deliver faster? Hey, why don't we try drones? That kind of thinking. What can you do with your photography with the new technology that's available or use the extreme thought process right? These extreme ideas down. Don't stop and then figure out what's available. You'd be surprised you'd be surprised. There are a lot of great developers out there who have these little just software that you could apply? Nobody's really using that could totally make. Make different and and just know that that great. Thank you. That's making you different now. You're going to have to change that in a few years. It's always changing. You have to keep going through that process. You know this brings to mind the work of Suzanne Alan I'm not sure if you're familiar with her photographer educator, she's amazing. She started doing these hybrid moving portrait's. And it's something that is, it's it's different and I'm seeing it a bit more and more now as as it catches on photographers, but it's just. A way to add a bit of uniqueness to her portraits and I mean that's and that's the way of dodging software to stand out a bit in the market. Right absolutely right that that's a great example. While I'm glad you brought up suzette. Because a trigger another thought here. We've often referred to Suzette as the queen of Hybrid. The time she got that title. The definition of hybrid was simply a still images combined with video combined with music, and that was that was the definition of hybrid. Now it's extended even more and how you deliver, and you were talking about you know virtual reality, and and and changing in grasping all these new concepts. In a world right now where? Everybody right now. We all suddenly live in cyberspace. The where we all are, we're all we're all hunkered down and I keep saying this. In fact, I'm tired of using the expression on down I never. I was never in my vocabulary before, and now it comes up. You know ten times a day, but if you think about everybody having to hunker down there, too many artists out there that that means their business to. And hit on a if if you're comfortable with it on some things that photographers. Could easily do as they're learning an starting to understand where they can create the that magic combination and. What are things they can do to to keep building relationships with their clients and remind them that hey I'm still here. Well. That's a great question because that's something that I have. been talking with a number of photographers about I mean the key in all this and I said this, and just as we're all shutting down the key to having a business at at the end of this is communication. When I when I TALK ABOUT MARKETING I! Areas I talk about awareness, traffic conversions and a retention. And retention is the play that a lot of people forget about, but this retention is what we've needed to work with over these next over these months of know, keep in touch keeping communication. Keep following up right now is the time to start following up with older clients to start putting new images or maybe start creating new images the best you can with what you have. Maybe you're stuck with just family members right now to create some new concepts and start to post that within social to get the conversation going. If you have some oldest Steph, where maybe it, you know time to tag people who might be ripe for opportunity when you when the doors open. For some of you. It's a few days. Maybe it's open now. For us here in Michigan where where we got a couple more weeks to go, but it really is important to keep things moving. Keep yourself motivated because if you're if you know heads in the sand, and you're worried and you know you J-. You're not doing anything even with the time left You'RE GONNA. Have you're going to be behind? You're going to be behind. You have to be ready to go and let people know how you going to do business differently as you open it up. I think a lot of people are forgetting that this world is different. And people will judge you and maybe even hire you as a photographer based on the protocols that you are presenting to them in this process of reopening. You know I wear a mask always. You'll wear a mask when you come into the studio, but you'll take it off obviously a photograph, but S- presenting that information. We have handed. You know sanitizer. Hand sanitizer there for you we have this and that I mean just listing everything being very clear to make people comfortable to hire you right now, and there are people who are in need of a photographer, but maybe not ready or comfortable to hire yet, and you wanted to bring that barrier down is quickly as possible, and that's GonNa? Take good communication. You know this is so true. We were talking to and I. Hope You. You don't mind me mentioning this before the interviews even released, but yesterday we. We had recorded with Cindy harder. Sims photographer, who does a lot of infant baby portraits, and she was talking about how she's changed procedure her procedures to make sure that the mothers are comfortable with skidding portraits of their delicate babies, and and she says that she files their lead with their comfort level, and some mothers are like you stay away over there. has is you take portraits of my baby? And she does, and you know the masks and everything I. It's so true it's now more than ever so important that that we make sure that our clients moving forward are are comfortable I mean it's given that photography should be amazing. That's you know this the no question, but what's going to help you stand out especially now is making sure that your clients note that with this pandemic you are taking safety measures to ensure their safety while still making amazing portraits. And, that's just going to be standard I. Mean you're going to have to do that? And that kind of leads into the whole conversation about service and I liked it. Throw this in there, because some people are thinking. Oh I, know my combine my combination. It's GonNa. Be Great Service I'M GONNA offer the best service than any other Fatih. No! Service just is you know other people can talk about your service and that's great. You know have the kind of service that people will talk about, and that will up your photography, but it can't come from you. It can't be literature. That is not your marketing is about your great service because that just should be in the first place and then. You know services just proven by your actions, and that will help you, but again it's not. It's not your combination. It's not your and and it's not how you lead with your marketing, nor the care how long you've been in business. Well I'm glad CHAMARA brought up. Cindy harder Sims, because cindy hit on something in this. This is funny, because shimmer neighbor'll talking about it, and it doesn't come out for another couple of weeks. The also talked about something. You just said a minute ago about going back to Oliver old clients now. She's in a small town in Georgia. And she went back to Oliver Clients and and made a request to them. Of just planning to sate of ideas, gifts photographs. You know I've got I've got all these images of you and your family. Now is the time that I need you to buy one. I need your help in order to stay in business. And she was very open as all as as said he can do, but she's built up such a reputation that community. Going back to our older clients and saying hey, you know. What are you doing for? Mother's Day we've got. We've got father's Day a coming up next month, and here's the perfect opportunity of to get it out there and to have another opportunity. What are you going to get dad for father's Day and there's so many opportunities photographers to now go back to their to their sure older clients. And that's another piece you get frustrated with this but I. Get I. Get so irritated with otographer that are screaming about how they have to find new business which which I agree they do. But not at the expense of forgetting the gold. Mine you've got of. Great customers from the past. You build up this reputation and you're sitting there with all these previous clients. Now is the time to do something fun for them, and maybe it is maybe it is taking advantage of all the new technologies and this year. This is going to be a great year, but the way for video holiday cards. I'm always telling photographers. No photographer should ever send out a hallmark card. One with your own image will. This is the year that sending out a video holiday card. With a great message is going to become even more important because. It it lands on Everybody's doorstep in cyberspace in only. With a are, it can now also come to life. Right on the front of you could send a card and it could be a holiday card, but it also could also be triggered to actually have a full message in everything, so yeah, absolutely I mean there. There's there's so much opportunity and as I mentioned before awareness, drive, conversions, retention, and that retention play you work so hard to develop awareness, traffic conversions and get these clients that so many photographers business people in general just forget. Forget about the retention and going back to the people who are already sold on them, people who already trust them. People who already liked them. I'm sure we've heard that scenario before. And in those are the people who are your best. If they are not ready to buy from you again. Maybe they don't WanNa. Do a portrait or you know have any need, but they're certainly your best referral source by just asking. Who Do you know? In going from there, then these people or do you trust? You'd be more than happy to refer you. I can't remember the stat, but. It's been proven that those that have already done business with. You are vastly more likely to purchase from you again. Rather than finding someone new someone untested in of course is a given. You have to do your job and make sure they. You know like you trust you. Don't be a jerk. During the portrait session, you know created portraits, but getting them to come back and re book from Oregon like you said referrals. So valuable and then people seem to value referral from someone. They know a family member or a friend, much more than just looking up a photographer on Google and hoping that this person will be you know a good. Photographer, so yeah, so true so true I'm curious, so you mentioned you kind of alluded to this. Earlier in the interview and I think you've also touched on it throughout, but it sounded like you had some interesting plans and strategies for moving forward for the future. With Your Business. Could you touch on those? Sure well. That definitely is augmented reality because I can't me and. My team you know can now create a card i. mean you'd be amazed when you show somebody this business card, and now it's a video and they did it with their phone, and it's very easy. They want one, too. So we're really at the point of making this kind of where websites were about ninety, five, ninety six. That's where this is, and this is very intentional, and so it's like the next type of website kind of like we have multiple ways to communicate. You can message you can text you can call by phone. You can email you know there's more than one way. There's more than one type of website now and that that's the way I look at it so. But I see all the great opportunity there for for video especially. But 'cause we've we've done. We've obviously done some. Tests and starting to put all this together and you know you creating multiple videos that are on one card. People can watch different messages. You know a lot of work. Especially something like this needs to be updated regularly, so it's also regular work, but there is Vr, opportunities there are other types of software opportunities out there and needs online. So, th, there's so much to be done. I'm very excited about it and I feel like it's A. It's a new new opera. Great new opportunity for my studio to really grow in the next phase and you know what a lot of the photography I did ten years ago. I just don't do anymore I. Just don't do and I'm okay with it. And that I think that's the big difference because they're photographers who are complaining right now that the stuff that he did so much, you know ten years ago. I know you kind of alluded this before to talk about this before, but the fact is. They're just trying to hold onto the past and you. If you're going to be a successful photographer, you have to be. Continuously charging into the future. Otherwise you just get left in the past one of the complaining photographers. Rush if you had pick just a couple of things, photographers need to start doing. Right now. What would they be? What would? What would the top two or three things be? I understand your core where you are now. You have to enjoy what you do of course. I keep saying charging the future you know, be damned all that you. You do have to love what you do, and if you're a visual crater, there's a lot of ways to do that. So understand your core start writing down ideas right now to think of something new to combine with your photography as you start to start your business for the first time or Reopen Your Business after twenty. Twenty years after been shut down for a few months. Take this opportunity and then from there just keep educating yourself to learn new ways to do business I mean I have my and you've obviously heard a lot of your hands today, but there are other great photographers with different business ideas that have made even better ideas that you can apply to your specific type of photography, so you know, listen to many different voices and start to test. Test Small. See what works, let go of what does not in. Keep evolving your photography business from now until you're ready to you know. Hang up the camera which I think for photographers never. So. This is this whole conversation is so interesting in. If you could see my notes right now, no, I've got a full page of notes and I'm like running out awesome base trying to fit in new ideas and areas and I love this Elvis. Because you're right, are photography businesses are always evolving. And you can't change and none of us are the same people that we were ten years ago, or we're not making the same types of images in the times are always changing. The economy is changing. And this is just such a timely discussion as we all navigate our way through this pandemic, and as economies open up. Across the country as you mentioned some faster than others, some slower, the mothers like good old Michigan here. You know this is cool and I wanNA. Make sure and ask. Where can folks find you online to learn more about you and what you're up to? Rush Ciller DOT COM is a great place to go I upload number of my youtube videos there you can always go to my youtube channels I have a few I one dedicated to the photography business and pricing for photographers, and then I have one. That's more creative entrepreneurial. and. So you can find those rushed dot video. We'll actually take you to the Chipper Niro. Channel and you can find the others from there in and if you want to contact me, rush Cillers, so everything is rush Cillers on twitter and those those three ways. That'll that'll take. That'll get you to me if you have. Any questions or any topics you're interested in. I have over a thousand videos on the creative entrepreneurs so. Very cool. We'll make sure and include links to in the show notes as well so that people can definitely check those out. Skit. Where can folks find you? Oh my God I. Thought You'd Never Ask. Just like I always answered that question everything I write is skip cone university dot, com mice, my twitter, and my facebook of the creative here just my name is all under skip Cohen and my email address, because we're always looking for feedback and suggestions on new topics or guests you'd like us to have on. The show is skip at m. e. five hundred dot com, and as I always ask where they're gonNA. Find you sh- mirror folks. Folks can send me an email at Shamir at focus dot com. That's my first name C. H. A. M. I R. A. At full FOCUS DOT com. We love getting questions ideas feedback because it certainly shapes how we move forward with the show and today's discussion was just amazing rash. Thank you again I. Mean This. Is Business Choice offs. Here's an honor. Thank you for having me back on and let's not wait six years next time, right? I would agree on that one especially especially now where you are so much on the cutting edge I mean you were on the cutting edge six years ago to, but in fact I remember going back and six years ago. Our biggest discussion was why you should have a blog. I mean it's it's. It's really funny. How much change and it's also funny how those people that listened ended a right now at least have the foundation for for their readers and followers and a better way to the target audience. And definitely. Good. Thank you so much for being with us today and we want to thank our listeners joining us as well. Please spread the word about this podcast especially, if you want to improve your photography business and come out stronger than ever from this pandemic, we look forward to having you with next time on the mind, your own business podcast brought to you by photo, focus and skip cone university.

Lindsay Adler Skip Cohen Ross writer Cindy Michigan Russia Shamir Youtube twitter Rich Arrington Mary Young Harrington Sheila US Nikon Lindsey New York
Sports are back! But for how long?

Recode Media with Peter Kafka

56:45 min | 6 months ago

Sports are back! But for how long?

"A VPN that keeps you private and lets you access content from around the world? Yes. Please a VPN. That watches what you're watching and logs data. How about? No that's why HMA VPN is proud to be the only donkey themed VPN with no data logging whatsoever a prestigious honor. We assume get HMA VPN now with seventy five percent off and see what we're talking about go to HMA VPN DOT com slash deal. To recode media, the're Kafka that's me. Taping this in Brooklyn. Because it's twenty twenty that's that's what I do and twenty twenty things in Brooklyn. Sports are back. So this is a recode media special pandemic sports addition. Baseball started last week. The NBA Starts Today we're delighted to have sports leagues. I'm delighted have sports. It's important for the media business advertisers desperately craves sports, programmers crazy sports audience is wanted of, but sports is weird NBA's being played in a bubble which kind of sounds good ed bubbles and Florida, which is not the best place to be right now speaking of Florida half of the Florida marlins tested positive for covid. So that team is not playing baseball and the whole question of whether we're going to have a baseball season is sort of unsettled. Work in progress. I don't know if you've watched a game they're they're they're weird because there are no fans of the stance. It's baseball and basketball and real sport is a weird experience to watch it without without a crowd there even when they pump in fake crowd noise. I guess we'll get used to it because we've gotten used everything else like not leaving our house or. Hugging our friends and family. What a bummer. Okay. But the show was great. It's a good show we've got a bunch of different guests. You'RE GONNA enjoy hearing from all of them. For stuff we've Brian Windhorst from ESPN. Last recode media guests I interviewed in person. Some of you may recall that up Ryan I talked hours before the NBA shutdown and the rest of the country shutdown that was back in. March. Lindsay Adler covers the Yankees in baseball athletic. And then we'll talk to Tanya Dan Guli covers the Lakers for the La Times and she is in the bubble. So we're talk to her about bubble life. He's good chance you're GONNA like him. So let's get right to them. First up. Is Brian Windhorst? I Brian Nice to chat with you. The last time we talked it was in person you were the last person I interviewed in person at Fox media. headquarters. the second week of March because after we talked the world shut down. So Nice Chat with you wish we could do it in person you know I went back and listen to that podcast yesterday and I think it was either that night or the next day that the NBA shut down it was that night we talked in the afternoon you said I don't think the NBA is going to be able to finish the whole season, but maybe they'll get. Done and we were debating whether it'd be the playoffs or not, and you said something along the lines of one thing I know for sure is the only player gets sick gets tested positive the whole league shots and then hours later Rudy Gobert. Shut down the week but I remember. I said well, you know this might cause a pause a four to six weeks a little offs. Little off on that one. Well, here's the thing everyone was off and we've done many many. Takes of who got what wrong immediate got a lot of stuff from but it was natural at the time in early March to look at places like China and say, well, they've they've got it SORTA under control in their opening up sports again in the US should be able to do that and in truth that is kind of what has happened around the rest of the world We all know what's going on in the US what I wanted to do. Is Talk to you bit about of what the State of play is with basketball today, and then we can talk about how we got there. I think people who pay attention as podcast pay attention to sports no that the NBA's restarting that it's all happening in Disneyworld in Florida a bubble there. What else should we know in general about what's happening with the NBA? Restart. Yes. So there's twenty two of the thirty teams that have gone to play why twenty two. While because part of the way, they were able to convince the players to do it. was that they agreed to. Give them back salary. You know the you the Union contract with the League Headey Force Majeure clause in it and right there in black and white it says that in the event of an epidemic. The word epidemic is in there and I know that's interesting because there's a lot of other insurance in other contracts that don't have that they can cancel it and not pay the players and. So to convince the players to to actually go do this to submit themselves for potentially up to three months in the bubble, you make it all the way to the end. It's going to be around three months being in there they had to. Basically, save enough television money to make it worth the players wile and so they couldn't do all thirty because they were just a little bit worried about handling that many people and they they negotiate it back and forth for a while but by bringing twenty two teams in. They will play eighty going to hopefully play eighty eight regular season Games where television revenue will be able to be collected, and they will be able to save six, hundred, fifty million dollars in salaries for players that otherwise would have been lost, and the deal is, is that even if you're not on one of the teams. went to Orlando you get your paycheck for those eight games. So it additional eight paychecks. So if I'm one of the, if I'm one of the lowly Minnesota Timberwolves, my miserable team. I'm still going to get paid in some way even though I'm not in the bubble. Yeah I. said there were some teams that were very disappointed that they couldn't go but there were other teams that were like I don't have to take the risk of going and I still get my eight eight game checks It made a you know there was a lot of people who said, Hey, this is actually not so bad of a deal. there were a handful of players who opted out and said, I'm not going to come, and if you were not excused in other words, you didn't have a pre existing condition or he didn't have an injury and you just said, Hey, listen I just don't WanNa play you didn't get your paycheck for for those games. Let's sort out the money part. So you have the players you have the league, you have the networks and the advertisers. Is All the money that advertisers had committed to spending down the NBA is that still going into NBA? As, well, the mummy, the NBA was expecting collect from from programmers like Turner and ESPN or are they still getting that or or is all this sort of pro? So the key a huge Ke was a seventy games so Most of the television local television contracts. Have clause in them that says you you have to be guaranteed seventy games the normally there's eighty two games and the other which means that you can you can get up to twelve games a year that national television can take from you. Not Put on your air but you're guaranteed seventy in the case of New York teams MSG is guaranteed seventy. Yes. Is Guaranteed seventy. Most teams had played between sixty two and sixty five games so. These eight Games for these twenty, two teams all for almost all of them, not quite all of them will get into that seventy number and guarantee that they will get their full local television money, and in some cases, it's millions of dollars per game or millions of dollars in you know it's hard to say that you're saving the money earning the money because this is basically. Capturing money than otherwise wouldn't have gone out the door. So by playing these eighty eight regular season games satisfy a majority of teams local television deals and also returned six, hundred, seventy, six, hundred, fifty, million that would have been lost, and so the overall you know the overall savings is it's a billion dollar moved to be able to play just these eighty eight regular season games and then the playoffs. So when you say savings are not not saving money where you're retaining money. Got Up your closing the window as the money's flying out the Cova window you know the thing about this is though They're not playing Disney world for free. You know Disneyworld is. Owned by Disney obviously also owns a ESPN ABC. The primary sponsor. So there was a working together and it's costing the NBA About one hundred, seventy, million dollars to use Disney world for these three months to use. Multiple resorts to use their facilities. Now to get food to get a entertainment to get other things. Now, I have no idea what. The actual value of of renting if you were meet Peter called up Bob idea and said, hey, how much to rent throughout three hotels and three arenas for three months? I'm not sure what the cost would be but I'm sure that there was some arrangement done. But the point is is in this endeavor is costing the League money, but they're doing it. To retain. Other. Money was going out the door and also. Like you said, it's also from Disney right? Like Disney has has a very vested interest in having televised basketball. Both in terms of the actual revenue, they would get from one of those games and also there's nothing else on TV, as we all know. Everyone has except for Netflix's everyone has run out of content there's no new programming coming There's no live sports and so in theory, the value of of any kind of sports goes way way up. For Disney and everyone else over the next few months. Yeah. So the first Major League baseball game out of the shoot, which was the defending champion nationals the was against the Yankees last week over the weekend Yup it got four million viewers and get rained out in the sixth inning so You know there were probably some viewers on the west coast. You didn't get to watch it but than four million viewers, which was one of the highest rated regular season telecasts. I don't remember what the notes were, but it's been a long time since four million people watched a game on cable and so there's an entire slate of NBA Games? Amend the playoff games coming up on ESPN TNT and they are hoping for ratings in that in that range. But in the short term here in one of the things that set up with these arenas. If you watch a Trail Blazers Grizzlies game. If the trailblazers are designated as the home team. The trail. Blazers local. Sponsors they've sold will be. Shown on the boards around the court. Some of the local trailblazer sponsors are but In. So they've they're doing everything they possibly can to retain. Every. Single dollar that they can. To providing the fans with something to watch I, know baseball has changed some some of the rules of the game and again baseball's a whole situation. Maybe baseball is not going to happen after all. But they've they've changed the designated hitter rule they've changed they're going to put a man on second base and extra innings to make the game go faster any changes to the way the game itself was actually going to get played or still basketball the way we were watching it last week no There's there's changes to like how they're going about. It know the players are now socially. Distanced on the bench there's all kinds of one hundred pages worth a rules of how they have to operate wall in that that bubble environment. But in terms of what's going on out there on the rectangle the court it's going to be regular basketball still posting up and dunking banging into each other all of that. Yeah, and it is a little absurd Peter I will say that That you can go out there and sweat against an and bang into a guy at the middle of the lane knocked a guy on his backside and all that stuff and you know they're not supposed to be really slap and fives, but they are. And then you go over and you say, no, no. No. I have to sit five feet from this. You're six feet from the style on the bench. It's a little. It's you know it's a little bit absurd but they're doing the best that they can and You know we haven't had a a release of tests in a week but the last time the NBA released testing information they had zero positive tests in the bubble. It's been incredible success thus far. But of course, it's so fragile right? Everyone's crossing their fingers and what happens if we do have an outbreak again we're seeing that in baseball right now. As speaking what is the contingency plan? If a bunch of the Lakers get sick, what what happens is they have not been clear. You know there's one hundred one hundred, thirteen page document that was produced at extraordinary effort by the League I mean they took months to research this and they they consulted so many different experts and but they they purposely left vague what what what it would mean. We know what would necessitate them to stop and I think that they will know it when they see it I will put it this way they have prepared for positive tests. It will not be one. The last time we spoke it took one to shut down it will not be one it will not be too and my guess is will not be three. You know the one of the things that in talking to executives in the League they wonder if there'll be a different standard applied, for example, if three wizards players test positive, will the wizards be asked to leave if three Lakers players test positive they say go into quarantine and we'll see in two weeks. You know. Being that you will. You don't WanNa, say goodbye the Lakers but you have no problems right? You want to keep Lebron James he wanted to the La Market what do? So you're not, you're not in the bubble was at your choices that ESPN's choice. Yeah I mean I I. I can't say what my bosses would have done but they came to me a while ago and so that you interested in I said no You know, I have a two year old and. The concept of being down there you know for months and the other thing is that. Way The NBA has done the technology You know you can really be it active medium member from from your home. I can attend these press conferences that they're having a virtually I can ask questions. I may not always get my question through because you have to go through a Q. and if you you know Lebron is only taking six questions at the end there's twelve in the queue I may not get it but I, I'm talking to people in the bubble every single day whether it's Like everyone else you can. You can do remote work and we're hopefully talk with Tanya Gan Guli who's covering the Lakers and the only times that is in the bubble. But what I have been reading is that the people who are down there are very restricted in terms of what they can do. So you can't seidel up to a player at practice or something, and then get some one on one time So there maybe even less benefit to being there in person what what do you think of? The product is it looked like basketball to you is I mean obviously there's if anyone's watch hasn't washed an NBA game and check it out it's it's weird. There's there's a sort of simulated fans, simulated cheerleaders. It's not as weird as baseball I think it. Kind of reminds me of like going down to YMCA and watching a game kind of looks like a a small court. Have you noticed any change in the actual product was really worried about this Peter because the players have been off for four months? And it's typically I to- out of their routine, they weren't able to do norther normal off seasons although. It's very clear if you watch all the teams, it's very clear that some teams may have been practicing with each other and others not That's one of the. It's one of the things that's being whispered amongst executives. But I don't know but the NBA. was of secret practice facilities you know and there were some cities where the players all all you know. The Nets next quite frankly from what I understand most their players left New York. Whereas the Lakers in the in the in the clippers love their players stayed in La. Some of it was just the idea that where physically you were, you know the up the raptors, for example, where north of the border, all of their players I believe. So for one or American. And so they all came back to home. You know. So some of it was a matter of your market but so was concerned about the quality of play. It has been better than I thought it is not great. The playoffs start August seventeenth and so you know these next couple of weeks will be games. I don't know I. Think it will be a little bit of trial and error but I I think you'll. You'll like what you see. The NBA did not want it to feel like a completely empty environment. Now baseball is limited they have A. They have these stadiums with forty thousand empty seats. It's a little bit difficult. The NBA has basically surrounded these these courts with video boards and they use the video boards in many different ways they put the team logos on there to make the home the quote unquote home team feel like it's at home they can use it for advertising like I said, and one of the things that they are that they are doing is they are letting fans come in to. In real time allegedly real time sitting in front of their webcams and they can be. Unlike baseball where there's cutouts, you can actually have live fans in a matrix along around the court. You know if it's a if it's a war if it would say raptors, Home Game Raptors fans if it's a jazz home game jazz fans and then they will be able to cheer as a you know somewhat collective now whether that technology is actually GonNa make any sense the NBA experimenting. The other thing is the broadcasts are experimenting with fake crowd noise I think we're gonNA hear a wide range of opinions on that I think between now in that playoff date, the broadcasters maybe doing some experimenting to. So when we spoke in March, we were you know we had our early March information and and lots of what we know about corona virus in covid is chain has changed is changing and so all of this is a big asterix. But right now, as it stands, it doesn't look like we're going to be able to have anything approaching normal sporting events in America. For many many many many months you know maybe next spring. So as the NBA is would like to have another season this year right? They WANNA cerise start the next season of the end of two, thousand twenty. So the timing right they're hoping to. Yeah. So do they imagine they bring back the bubble? Then what was the current conversation? So this is this is something that is while everybody is focused on Orlando the. Business asked the business operations of the rest of the League is obsessed with the question that you just asked. What is the best thing to do do do they start up again basically right on the heels of this, take a month off, take November off and come back in December and have the finals and everything next summer as normal does this bubble work and if you're not gonNA have fans anyway you look at. another bubble environment or multiple bubbles because if that's the only way to execute the games or with the you know the the belief in the hope about a vaccine do you just delay? Do you push next season off and you take another four or five months off and hope that you have vaccine not only for the safety of the players but for the concept that you can breed fans in because Peter about forty percent of the NBA revenue is derived from the people in. The building not just the FA ticket buying and the beer buying but you know the sponsorships and not just the sign edge that you see but also a huge huge weight teams do money. Now with naming rights, they have all of these gloves and their lexus buys this BMW by club and and that's all gone The Golden State Warriors who have this brand new arena was completely built onto squeezed every dollar of this new arena and for them about eighty percent of their revenue. Is based on that arena based on fans coming to that arena and so you know. So the the thought processes, which is the best path, and we can sit here in July. And Guess, but we may not know until, October, we made what's is there one school of thought that has the most momentum or has the most powerful folks pushing for it or is everyone sort of shrugging their shoulders? This wants then we literally don't know. Yeah, I think. So they're working on scenario ABCD whatever I think the idea that I would. You know the thing is I I think. There's never going to be a one-size-fits-all, Peter because. we're going to have markets where they're probably going to allow fans like. You know they seem to be very aggressive in states like Atlanta in Florida it's very possible that the Atlanta Hawks will be allowed to have five thousand people in their building or or seven thousand, five hundred people in their building, and they can sell tickets whereas the Golden. State. Warriors. In La, Lakers cannot and so do you go forward from that and and then you have to make a deal with the players because while teams revenues are now obviously going to be going to fluctuate mostly fluctuate down. Players contracts are guaranteed. Contract, in two thousand, eighteen for four years it says what I'm supposed to get paid in two thousand and twenty one well. You know they're going to have to come to an agreement the players they're going to have to basically reduce their contracts. That's actually already happened the players right now since since May have been taking a pay cut every player is getting. About ten or fifteen percent less. So that's all got to be worked out but so we're looking at the spectacle of millionare's negotiating with billionaires an and and and the fans themselves won't have a lot of sympathy for it. But I think that one difference there is that I think pretty much everyone in America. Right now has at least some degree of empathy for the idea that no one really knows what's happening where all unfortunately making up as we go any anyone who's got kids who are supposed to go back to school. Knows about this kind of uncertainty. So I guess, and this is the worst kind of journalism go. We'll wait and see but we will wait and see. So maybe we can come back and talk to you in a few months how it's all going yeah, and I hope that. Everything I said here didn't prove to be foolish. Gamble I don't I credit you forgetting mostly right last time out we'll. We'll see we'll see how this up Brian thanks for your time. Thank you. Peter Take Care. Thanks again to Brian for coming on. Always makes feel smarter. Next up. We're GONNA hear from Lindsay Adler from the athletic. But first, we're going to hear from a fine sponsor. A VPN that keeps you private and lets you access content from around the world? Yes. Police a VPN that watches what you're watching and logs or data. How about? No That's why HMA VPN is proud to be the only donkey themed VPN with no data logging whatsoever prestigious honor. We assume yet HMA VPN now with seventy five percent off and see what we're talking about go to HMA VPN DOT com slash deal. I remember I used to have a history teacher back at UCLA WHO said to us that there are times when you could feel the pfister history tightening around you fuss about that. She was talking not long after nine eleven but this is another one of those moments. It is a hinge moment in the American democratic. Experiment. The entire globe is being battered by the current virus. We're dealing with some of our oldest moons in this country on top of entirely new technologies. It is a crazy time. I'm client host of Poncho PODCASTS, and what we're trying to do right now is understand our time and find some the ideas that might help us chart away out of it. The best you months we've talked Thomas. Coats about why the protests made him actually hopeful tomorrow through Kado about the ways in which economics profession has misunderstood the concept and his measure, the concept of value to Elizabeth Warren about her plan to combat the coronavirus trust outfit about whether or not American societies become decadent. He's have all been great conversations and there are so many more i. hope you'll join me every Monday Thursday to stay informed and maybe you get a sense of is well subscribed show on apple podcast spotify or wherever you're listening to this right now. I'm speaking with Lindsay Adler from the athletic normally covers the Yankees in an ideal world. She'd she'd be traveling around the country this summer following the Yankees but right now that's not happening. Welcome Lindsey. I WanNa talk to you about about your job and what you're doing and but I want to start off with sort the state of baseball recording this Wednesday morning things can change by time people hear this and a day, but tell us where where we are baseball today it seems like we're continuing on with baseball even there's a well-publicized outbreak of covid with the Marlins I would describe it as. Currently contained chaos if they Sunday through Tuesday where Berry intense the. Marlins outbreak as of Tuesday was up to fifteen players in two staff members and it. Sixty sixty players. Thirty players. yet math is the math is not in their favor there, but it bound up canceling games for for teams it rearranged can for the Yankees Orioles in the marlins are now shutdown until next week. So the Marlins are not playing the Florida Marlins So obviously, the the game they had scheduled, other teams are not happening and our other other teams are, are there other games that are canceled? That are not marlins related. So it really kind of set off. A chain reaction the. Marlins. On Sunday had four positive cases that morning and then they played against the phillies and so then the Marlins were supposed to go back to Miami for their home opener in the Baltimore Orioles we're going to go play them and the Yankees headed to Philly to face them Monday and Tuesday. So you have these two series with these four teams. And when the MARLINS got. Another bigger wave of positive tests on Monday they shut down the marlins orioles game and the. Phillies. Game. Out of precaution, and then the phillies players were retested on Monday those. Samples, it's the saliva based test where they spit in a tube. Those animals were taken to rutgers university. Tested but since those test results did not come back until Tuesday morning the Yankees Tuesday night game in Philly was postponed as well. and. So it really kind of set off this. You know really big fear. You know this is this is the first big outbreak and it's bad. It's it's seventeen people. So it's kind of been a whirlwind so you have this cascading effect. We saw I was talking to Brian Win Hurst from ESPN and we all remember what happened way back in March when bear tested positive new that crazy scene with the arenas being cleared. No one in the nose going on and you know you could cut the NBA little slack because they weren't really ready for this. But baseball has had four months to prepare for this. They're supposed to have a system that that allows for. The idea that people are going to get sick over the season. So what what happened at something go wrong or is this actually the plan is this actually baseball baseball's is this thing's working to plan. I believe that the League is working pretty hard to find out to to the best of their ability where this outbreak started with the Marlins but the thing to understand about baseball versus basketball is basketball played in a bubble whereas baseball's protocols. You know they're very extensive and they make a lot of sense, but they are very reliant on personal accountability. Ideas the teams are traveling from Stadium to stadium like the normally would they're playing in an empty stadium so that that's their version of they don't have a bubble they're just supposed to take care of themselves and and travel. Yes. So I'm not sure that we will publicly ever get. A real answer with what happens with the Marlins I'm not sure if there's privacy concerns. Things like that but. MLB seems to. Be. Hoping depending on how tests for the PHILLIES comeback over the next couple. Of. Days. Hoping that this is contained to the Marlins and Everyone else all other twenty nine teams are able to proceed. Normally maybe with A. Heightened sense of accountability and taking precaution. So the idea is MLB wants to believe this is a one off event that this is unfortunate that half of a team got got sick and at the other, this won't happen at the other twenty nine teams and they can proceed as normal carry on. Helpfully. I'd never met you. I'm looking at you through a video screen. You seem to have a skeptical face or at least you seem to be treating this proposition ethically what do you what I mean? I can't predict the future but what do you think happens to baseball this year? Do we get through the regular season into the playoffs without another sort of major catastrophe? I think the issue is there's no actually well-defined. Limit for what ends the season or what shuts it team down. There is no specific number. You know if five players on the Marlins test positive than their shut down for four days. There's there's nothing like that in the choice to end the season is left to the. Discretion of the Commissioner. And So it's it's subjective and the kind of threshold the the league gave this week was. Getting to a point where maybe a team is not competitive which I would say having fifteen of thirty players test positive is noncompetitive but. You know you mentioned Rudy Gobert and that was. In Tampa, during Yankees Spring Training that night I was watching on TV in it very much feels to me like a you know. A where were you situation? You Know I. Packed up my stuff and flew back to New York quickly. and. I would say that Monday, and Tuesday definitely felt like Rudy Gobert situation but now sport presses on so. It's an interesting test of how this is going to work. So speaking of interesting you, you're a beat writer, you covered baseball, you cover the Yankees your job is to cover the INS and outs of the Yankees and be aware of the League in general you. Now I guess have to add amateur epidemiologists and infectious disease specialist to your list of attributes. How much your time are you spending sort of? Thinking about your health and safety health and safety of the league versus. Who's WHO's pitching? Well, I would say that I have approximately zero brains face left for anything that is not baseball and coronavirus in baseball. It's it's complicated. It's something that I think about a lot because there are a lot of fans who. I mean, it's been a bad year watching baseball is enjoyable. You know even knowing off the risks when I have been watching games at home I've really enjoyed it. So there's a lot of people who do just want to read about the pure baseball side but. I want to make sure that you know if I look back in five to ten years coverage reflects what this was actually like so. I'm thinking about it a lot and I'm trying to find the balance in in terms of my safety. The League has pretty. Well defined media protocols we don't get tested like the players in staff do I know that in the NBA bubble there the reporters are getting tested every day for not getting tested. We get temperature checks. There's a limit on how many of us can be in the press box, and fortunately the press box inky stadium is very large. It's Open Air I. Don't think that I've really come within ten feet of anyone in the. I don't know ten or so times that I've been there since training camp start. So I feel okay. But I do feel that I have a lot of personal responsibility to decide. Am I going to drive three states away to. Watch this for or is it better for me to stay home? Do you have the option of I can and kind of have to do my work remotely although I'm actually going to the office today for a couple of hours but but I this is I'm working from home indefinitely Do you have the option of covering the Yankees from? Oh Yes my editors have been very. Firm none of us have to go to the ballpark for not comfortable with it. I am still kind of trying to figure out that balance for myself but you know there there is the option I, would say, really. At home I have access to the pre and postgame zoom media availabilities I can watch the game. It's just for me when I'm writing about it. It's just a little bit different for me to see it in person so. I would like to continue doing that I do think that if I'm not talking to players one on one in the clubhouse round, the fields seeing the game for myself hopefully enhances. Coverage for readers, but it's a constantly evolving like cost benefit analysis of it. Say. So before we started recording, you told me that you were supposed to go to Baltimore but then you realize you couldn't go to Baltimore because when she went to, Baltimore, you'd be quarantined when you came back to new. York. It never once occurred to me that that this this was an issue for I sports reporter in two thousand twenty but of course it is. Had you sort of thought that through in advance or is this something that just sort of popped up for you as well? It's really strange because. I. Really. Feel that I rely on not just those. In person things that I can pick up, you know what I mean. It's just different on a broadcast. I can't necessarily see every defensive alignment. I can't see every weird thing going on in the dugout or on the fields and. Really, you know those in person interactions with players in staff a really what's important but I am all safety I I will I will sacrifice talking to players from ten feet away. MEANS THAT EVERYONE STAYS SAFE This is not how I expected to spend the season I. Think everyone would be happier if we were not in the situation. So is your plan than to travel with the team when you can I guess you'd have to sort of. Hope that they're playing in states that New York allows travel from, which is I think not that many right now. I had expected. So the Yankees were scheduled to play in Philly Monday and Tuesday and Garrett Cole was supposed to pitch on Tuesday. So I was planning on just kind of making it a long day trip from New York. Just drive out there in the morning drive back at night. I. Don't know really if that's in the cards and. I it. As the number of like states now have quarantine restrictions when you re enter New York State, I think that's kind of going to set the parameters for me but I'm not getting on an airplane, the season I'm not going anywhere near Florida. So. I was kind of thinking that I would just stick to the Philly Baltimore. DC kind of Selah corridor. And let's talk a little bit about about the actual games in in the product I watched a little bit of just sort of had it on a background a few days ago was the as Game I. Guess Probably Opening Day and I got a Gig a of the funny cutouts in the stands. Listening to the play by play was interesting because there's a lot of discussion of black lives matter which is also very different in two thousand twenty. It seemed like the baseball was baseball I think there's a couple rule changes that are mainly around the is anything I mean does it look like baseball look like lasser hit looks like baseball but it looks like, sloppy, baseball. I would say the three. Three Games. The Yankees played against the Washington nationals. Games on Saturday and Sunday they were. They were pretty sloppy for both of them and. A. I think a lot of players that are really good job of like staying in Game Ready Shape whether they're pitcher or a hitter, but I think having a very short spring training two point. Oh, mostly intra squad games like. Guys just aren't really tuned up to the flow of it so it's It's definitely baseball ended his definitely still kind of triggered that lake. You know part of my lizard brain that's like your strikeouts in home runs. Great Just hope. I think over the next couple of weeks it'll just tighten up a little bit and what was the Audience Reaction People Are Star for sports right. There's a whole theory that the stock market is being influenced because there's people who normally be watching sports and betting on sports and they're betting on stock instead Are they flocking back to watch baseball in record numbers just because it's there or something else? Had the. The Yankees a nationals opening day game on Thursday, which was eventually shortened by rain ESPN a release it was like just an absurd number of viewers kind of record setting for them. There was a lot of interest there. I am not sure in terms of general television audiences. I have felt that more people have been reading my work engaging with my work you know kind of. It's kind of reverting back to the natural dynamics where I can just. tweet about you know someone state play or something, and there are five people who agree with me strongly in five people who disagree with me strongly and I'm like okay. So this is just this is just how it works premium and. Yes. Well, I mean we'll take normalcy in any whatever version we can get it. If you had to bet today on whether we finish a season and get through a world series. What would you think the odds are? I would say that when I am in the ballpark. It feels like we're GONNA. Get through the season, and then when I am sitting at home reading a reporting the news, it does not. I would say this Marlin situation kind of. Influences on but I think it's still fifty fifty just. It's too hard. To gauge where this is going because it was a dumb trick question but I I appreciate that you you answered it the. Fifty. Fifty is always the right answer right? It could happen I mean I have no expectations anymore after this year. And predicting. Things. I just look at it to you. I'm looking at the thinking of the dog sitting and everything flame picture. This is fine. That's I got three text messages from people with the Yankees with the this is fine. Dog yesterday so. That is that is that the name says it will. Let. You get back to work I. Appreciate Your Time Lindsay Adler Athletic thank you. Thanks again to Lindsey. Now, we're going to chat with Tony Guli who live in the bubble in. ORLANDO. I'm speaking with Tania Congruity, she covers the Los. Angeles Lakers for the Los Angeles Times and she is in the bubble in Orlando will come on. how long have you been in the bubble got here on July twelfth so I think this is good. Rochard test I think some people. If you said, you are either going to cover basketball you're going to go to Disneyworld and do nothing but either play basketball or watch people play basketball for up to three months. Some people would say that's great. Sign me up and others would say I want no part of this I need more going on my life it's job so you have to do it but how was it going? It's going pretty well, I think sort of fall in the middle of what you're talking about I it's it's just such a cool opportunity to be able to cover this experiment here. So it was important to me that I got to do it. But also there is the fact that like I'm not GonNa, I'm not gonNA see anybody. But like these reporters that are here an NBA people and like the teams that are Miranda I'm not going to see like anyone from any other part of my life until I'm out of here in September. So. There's a little bit of both I mean I think it has been really fun to see the basketball close into. Be there for the practices an end to be in the arena for the game it's a totally different experience from what I understand watching it on TV because you can hear so many things and you're so close to the action. So that's been really fun but I do I mean there's plenty of that I. Miss for being on the outside it's like being deployed in the army right accepted. You're going to Disney world for three months in are you in for the duration or are you there as long as the Lakers clippers are there? So I am going to be there's there's a point during the there's a point during this process that the NBA has loud news outlets to switch a person can only be done one time for the most part So I'M GONNA be switching out with a colleague of mine in early September and then I'll I think I'll the plan is for me to come back if the Lakers are in the finals not to inside the bubble but to the second tier that's right outside the bubble as well still to experience it a little bit but. I'll be in here at least for a little over another month. So the players been practicing in scrimmaging and now the official season kicks off the remainder of the officials season kicks off on on Thursday. When this podcast is out I want to hear what their life is like I want to get a sense of what your day is. do you have? I think we were going back and forth and you sure what your schedule was because you hadn't heard from the NBA. It seems like a lot of your days of dictated by what the NBA is telling you should and shouldn't do or what you can and can't cover what's an average day for you right now. So they asked us to give them our requests two days in advance. So want to interview someone. So where I WANNA go see this game I want to go to this practice I want. To Go to this game for Thursday. Night's games for the opening games they they asked US yesterday. So today's Tuesday. They asked us three days in advance because he wanted to sort of get ahead of things. So that's part of why it's hard for me to to say what my schedule is going to be like a week from now and I've been talking to some other reporters about this is because we're all getting a lot of podcast radio requests and some some stations they think they're being. By I mean, I think everyone thinks they're being considered by giving us much advance warning as possible. Would it gives so much anxiety because we're like I have no idea what like my day is going to be like in two days because they haven't told me yet if I'm approved for this or. I'm approved for that practice or that game. So we find out we find out the night before everybody gets their approvals the night before, and then you plan your day accordingly, it can really be any time I mean, they don't like the it's not like they're doing the west coast teams a favor and letting them practice later there everybody's everybody's practicing at whatever time the NBA says they will sometimes that's nine am sometimes that's six pm who can say. and. So they're assuming that you don't have autonomy in terms of like you don't get to walk wherever you want to go that. You're sort of have to. Badger get badged in your approved for this. But not that when you're not at a at an approved practice or game or whatever you're at, are you allowed to move around the campus or do you have to sort of go back? To the hotel room and sit there. Now, we can move around but it's a very limited area that we can move around to. We can't go to any of the well so far we have not been allowed to go to any of the restaurants a think they're planning a time of day like a time of the week when they're going to allow us to maybe use some of the restaurants. They just have figured out a golf schedule where they've said like we can go play golf at these certain certain specific times What they don't want is for us to run into coaches or players who are trying to play golf out there I've noticed over the last few days there's been seeing the security seems to be a lot more aggressive in making sure people aren't going whether or not supposed to I'm not sure who else is in. The category that we reporters are in, which is the I. Would I think we had the most restrictions on us through the few places that we can go, but it's it's not just I know it's not just us but I'm not quite sure who all it is the team people, the players and the people who are here with the teams they can go anywhere. They want went around roam around. Yeah, and they can even like visit other hotels. That can visit mean everybody's here right now there's a lot of there's a lot of warning to catch up with people so like you know, Frank Vogel Lakers coach is telling me yesterday that he he's thinking of a going to visit with the Pacers staff that's those people the coach with for very long time. The Pacers have had a lot of continuity. So he you know he used to coach there and he's like maybe all goes say hi. To them and hang out there a little bit So there's there's the opportunity for a lot of for them to see a lot of different things in terms of reporting the craft of finding people that you WanNa talk to getting them to tell you interesting things I assume that as a very different operation for you right now because you're you're so constrained, you can't sort of seidel up to someone after practice and get five minutes alone with them. How and it seems like in some ways, you'd be better off not being in the bubble you could. You could. Call people in you'd have freedom of movement. How are you compensating for those restrictions? Well, it's actually I actually disagree with that characterization because it's it's actually from a reporting angle. It's been pretty good I mean there's there is an opportunity. Still if you know someone, there is an opportunity still to talk to them because they might come up to you where they. Walk by you, and if you say something, they'll they'll be willing to talk to you. If you're someone that they know one I think that also what's also possible? One on ones are are possible here they're allowed. You know a lot of it's a little bit more rigid in that you'll have to you'll have to set that set it up with a PR person. In but I've been to the live teams. When, I'm not at the Lakers or clippers, most of the other teams don't have very many people at their practices and so you go to Orlando Magic practice for example, like their will they'll they just what do you need Houdini to talk to I didn't I didn't set up anything in in advanced but I was still able to get to one on ones with. With the coach with two players in the coach. The pelicans very similar I. mean there's there's just there's so few reporters here and the Lakers clippers command a lot of attention because there's to beat writers from Los Angeles runs a new other city has that no other team has sat. So if you go outside of of the La Market Media Starve markets are those guys are happy to talk to. And then and then in terms of actually producing work that the your your editors want from you that your readers want from you I'm assuming you you knocked out. The print version of our discussion multiple times already, right like here's what life is like inside the bubble. And then what I mean. Now you're now you're just treating it like a normal NBA season and talking about performance in who can't be what, what, what are you not doing that you would be doing if this was a normal NBA season in your in Los Angeles it's I think it's just a much more focused environment and I did as you were talking, I was also thinking about my answer to the last question because I didn't WanNa make any WANNA leave the impression that the Lakers clippers aren't helpful I mean. Also been easier than on we're back in L. A. because because there are fewer. Physically there you're not getting I'm not getting crushed by people trying to talk to Lebron James, which is what would always happen in the pre cova days But yeah, I have written like you said I have written what's happening here what's this been like repeatedly repeatedly, I'm probably going to be writing another one coming up soon. was. A little, bit. With a little bit more, a little bit more color from things that I've learned over the last couple of weeks. I have found that people been really interested in even like things that are that unlike that's just normal thing that's happening in my day it's not is not interesting to me but like. But. It's also like this is such an experiment like no, this has never happened before and so I think there's a lot of curiosity about how they're doing in to work a lot of curiosity. Starved for any kind of sports information, right because we just haven't had sports for months. And you're right in the middle of it. So for the players again, follow the tweets and initially the people were complaining about the food, but the food turned out to be okay and. I think everyone would sorta wants the story about the players behaving badly or or wrecking a golf cart or you know sneaking a substance onto the into into campus what's your sense of how they're adapting to it or they sort of have they adapted? They've been here for about three weeks right now at this point, it's not that much longer than like a long road trip have been So I, think we're going to really start to see the impact of of being here and sort of. The opportunity to go stir crazy. I think we're GONNA see that in the next few weeks. But if you're looking for the crash golf cart drunk player story that wait a week or two. Well I, think one of the. Someone was saying yesterday that I to David Griffin Pelicans you the saying that that there's he feels like it was really like the. Sort of the monotony of being here and being here and having to do the same things every day like that, he could see wearing on people but once they started playing games or actually he called it like a shot in the arm because he said like that really helped because finally after four four and a half months, teams are able to play against other teams, and so that was thous- useful for them and he thinks soon, things to break up the monotony will be helpful in players continuing or. Players not being not. Well, for lack of a better way to put it like not popping the bubble you know. Creating a situation where they're gonNA be dealing with something like baseball dealing with right right and then what's how are the Games themselves for the players? Obviously you can't recreate a a a pack, even half full arena, and so what is it like for them playing for? Basically just themselves with themselves and other other players and not for an audience the Lakers are to some degree kind of enjoying. Creating their own atmosphere they've been the loudest team here like in I've haven't watched every team play but I've watched several teams play and in different arenas and I've watched the Lakers in different arenas. They're so loud like they. It's not just it's it's the way they talk to each other on defense. It's the way that they cheer for each other from the bench. The trash talk, you can hear it. There is a very vocal team, and so I think that they are a team that feeds off of their crowd and there are Laker fans at almost every game. They will they play like not just at home on the road going the here the here. Cheer when. They're winning a game in some hot. Some arena you would think would be hostile. So they do feed off of that but I think there's a realization to that they're gonNA have to do it themselves here and they. Really. Like each other like this is a team that somehow like they just have just very get along very well more than a lot of teams do and that's part of what's helped them as part of what's helped them like get through some of the things that they've dealt with this season so. Think either enjoying kind of making fun of now making fun of the atmosphere. But like like joking around about like bill, they'll come out during warm tonight pointed the point at the seats where there's like there would be a crowd normally but there's no crowd and they'll go handed out like that. Just Kinda goofy with them. How do you think that works by the time we get to meaningful games and playoff games and finals games were that sort of atmosphere is is part of the game and and will be gone it's going to. Be Strange. It's going to be strange for them and their I don't think that at that point I don't think you're going to be seeing as much of the joking as much of the like You know. I think I think they'll still have fun with each other but I think the tone is going to be very different. So yeah, it's it's going to be really strange thing for for Lebron who's been to so many finals and who's very comfortable with the tension of a final series he's not going to have that. And sort of when you when you take away away from someone sometimes that's great and sometimes it unbalances them I know this is a long way away. But in theory if the bubble works and this all works and they get to have finals. The NBA is going to be trying to figure out what to do for. End of the year when the new season supposed to start our anyone talking about that who you're bumping into like we might have to repeat another version of the bubble. A few months from now why? Yeah. I asked a few people about that yesterday because because of what happened with the Marlins with all their positive tests relation and if the NBA tries to start on time, they might be trying to. Do something like what baseball is doing and it seems pretty clear that the travel element is what has made their process difficult is what has made their process not a smoothest. The NBA's seems to have been of course, the amid does have problems too but It's nothing like what you're what you saw baseball so. I think that's a big unknown right now I think they're going to see how this goes and get through this but they're gonNA start they're gonNA to have to start planning even before the finals end war next season because it's not gonna be that long after after that weighing on players minds or they're like look I got I got three months of. Of of of games hopefully that I've got to get through and I'll deal with everything else later I. Think it's that I think that's the mentality right now that like how like they have very little control over this and yes, they're worrying but they discerned trying to put it. Yes. They wonder about that but they're trying to put it out of their minds. I apologize for being one of the. People call you up and ask you what life is like in the bump since you have to go. Right. But I appreciate you making time. Good luck be well. Thank you. Thank you. We're done with our sports tripleheader. Thanks to our advertisers. Thanks to our guests. Thanks to Gilani and Joe who make the show and thanks to you guys for listening. We'll be back soon.

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The InFocus Interview Show with Skip Cohen | Photofocus Podcast July 26, 2019

Photofocus Podcast

28:10 min | 1 year ago

The InFocus Interview Show with Skip Cohen | Photofocus Podcast July 26, 2019

"You're listening to the infocus interview show brought to you by photo focused dot com an online publication filled with education and inspiration for visual storytellers stick. This episode is made possible by our partners think tap learn dot com and skyla creators of luminaires. Now here's your host Bonelli. Hello and welcome Bonelli Anneli now my guest. This InFocus episode has been in the photographic industry his entire adult life. He is a marketing social media. Guru who has written numerous books has spoken at all at all major after photography conferences and hole in his host and thousands of podcasting hours helping photographers. We should potential please welcome skip cullen. Hello skip hey buddy good. Don't skip artist and women before you go into this. I appreciate the social media grew title but a girl who suggests that you honestly understand what's going on and I have to tell you there are days that I mean I'd love. I appreciate the compliment but man I am a long way from a grew on anything lately you know so it's funny because in the martial arts <hes> you know you're a black belt when you walk by mirror and don't even realize you wearing a black belt and then you look down and go Oh al and we always joke with with their students that once you become a black belt you realize you don't know anything and so that's why I feel that guru title were perfect for you because you're at that level toward you know no so much that you're smarter to realize hey. There's still a lot more to learn. I think that's what keeps me going is the fact that I mean every single day. There's another shift in paradigm about how we communicate or how we share information or pictures news or something and it's a matter of just keeping up with it so I didn't mean to get off topic squeak and that will that's going to tie into our topic. The topic is stop buying gear and invest in education now. The topic was inspired because I saw that you're teaching in Chicago at Click Con- I think it's August fifth through the seventh. <hes> now for those that don't know click on is a three day hands on <hes> photography. I'm video learning experience and skip. You'll be teaching how many classes there and what Tom what I'm doing. I'm doing four different programs there <hes> and really the four different programs are sort of broken out into two two or three different audiences our target audiences so I've got. I've I've got four. It's actually it's it starts on August fifth and six are all the scheduled programs and on the seventh is click con- Max which is all hands on shooting. There are no presentations in fact. I'm I'm headed out of town. <hes> that morning so I'm I'm actually done after a three hour. Program called midnight madness the night before oh he's so what for a moment the seventh you said is hands on right now. If I'm not mistaken isn't isn't that where photographers they're they're paired up with models and they go out on all these shoots. They've got models their instructors. It'll still be there. There's a whole variety of things going on and I'm not I'm not on the website because it really is an aspect of this conference. It's that I know is going on but I haven't paid a lot of attention to it because I'm not enough of a headache just with my own program well our friend. Sherry right is involved with this Yup Yup an they had no idea and she started working with the George in the company at Pro Cam and the next thing you know the idea for conference was born in the scrape especially for photographers who like while I'm bringing a couple of interns to to this event <hes> do you remember the one Taylor Taylor creedy. She's a young twenty year old up and coming photographer. She's phenomenal with her photographer skills. It's. It's the business side that I really want her to focus on and that's where I think the fifth and sixth will be great for her to sit in and listen to your topics and the things that you're talking about and then of course defeated that photography <hes> urge and desire to shoot that were the seventh comes along and from what I've seen is GONNA be incredible. You know they have photographers pairing up with different models with different instructors going out shooting theme shoots so for any for tower for the Watson Builder Portfolio and learn while they're doing at the SA- great having a great conference well a couple things that they're added to that and adding to that and that's where she's just going to have a blast <hes> first of all there. Are I believe leave. There are four themed shooting booths. That'll be on the trade show floor. <hes> then I know that that all the instructors have three classes and two of them have to be hands on programs and that's very cool now mine obviously mine is business in marketing business marketing. It's Kinda hard to do literally a hands on but for everybody that's teaching and is an active artist slash photographer slash rush shooter <hes> it's gotTa be it's a combination of at least two out of the three classes have to be hands on and that's a great way to be able to tie in learning and get that time in with an instructor who you who you admire it. Also it's about networking to exactly what she's going to get a lot out of this. This is what she's rating from all the stories I've told her about you <hes> most of lies but the cheese a huge which fan of Lindsay Adler so she's it'd be spending a Lotta time when Lindsay and I reached out Lindsey about her but that back to you it's funny because you've done these business talks many times and you can do in your sleep but you're always improving them. Yeah actually aiding them. It's kind of it. Sometimes it's hard to find new material because you don't WanNa keep saying the same thing over and over again and yet we're at a point now where they're so so many because we're we live in a world of instant fulfilment and cyberspace contact. There's there's so much. That's come back. That's back in style like like Sarah. Petty I know was one of the first people to start talking about the importance of a handwritten. Thank you note just back to a client while its it stands out even more now because we're all used to email and I love I love the new things going on in texting but I'll also be talking about some very cool things with with photo texting dot com and things that people can do now to improve their texting so that you're taking a proactive approach and close more sales so there's everything is changing aging and yet as much as it's changing your whole goal is still exactly the same to exceed client expectations and make yourself habit for me so we we've always been trained <hes> for every dollar a customer forgive you give them two dollars worth of service so so that the education part so what are what are the classes. You're teaching well the first one and this is something that I don't know of any conference that's ever done this before. Click con- On has a tremendous relationship that they have built and when I say click on it's it's very cool 'cause the there's a group called the heart of Click Con- and that's made up of a bunch of volunteers and that's essentially the planning committee. That's behind all of this trying to make it better so it's it's their efforts the title together we're one of the things that are doing the day before is a couple of business programs for the models make up artis and support people and if you think about all the conferences you and I have gone to and all the people behind the scenes who are not photographers but who helped make all the photographers attendance at that conference. It's pretty damn special and so my first program is and this is this first three. I'm GonNa talk about our one hour programs. There's only so much you can do but it's an introduction to social media. It's it's I'm going to be talking about what better ways to try and use twitter and facebook and one of the things that that photographers everybody seems to forget is that is that line between business and marketing depending on what you want your facebook page to be now. You and I- clown around all the time and go back and forth and you share a lot of personal stuff and business stuff but if you had a page on facebook and your target audience was strictly. Let's say mom because you were children family photographer then you want to make sure that everything you sharing on that page is relevant that gets them excited so that that first program at <hes> on Sunday afternoon is strictly for the for models makeup artists any of the support people they're working for for the various vendors could be for the photographers for the Click Con- team and I love that because the more we can elevate and get them excited aided about supporting us in the photographic industry healthier. The industry gets so that's that's the first one the only goes number two number two well okay. The next one is and this is is really my first one Tuesday morning is about starting a photography business and the basics and there are too many photographers out there that that decide all right. I'M GONNA go out and I'm going to get the best gear we'll getting the best. <unk> gear is totally meaningless. <hes> obviously you have to develop your skill set but I think Jerry Jones put it best going back a lot of years ago in Ohio Jerry came in and helped me with the program that was sort of a fundraiser for Akron Children's Children's Hospital and during the day that he had where people could come and just shoot with them which was a much smaller group. He made a comment that the way I'm gonNA paraphrase a little bit probably screwed up the way we get into businesses photographers sort of backwards because we get all our gear we open our store our business and we're expected to have our skill set and our business at all in line at the same time when when the truth is he said ideally everybody should go out and shoot for a year or two as the second shooter and then when you've got your skill set down pat and then when you know every single button on your camera that you could find in total darkness at that point then you'd be ready and now you can pay attention to the business side so you know learning how to shoot and developing your skill set for the first couple of years so that you don't have to worry about business and then being able to worry about business when now you you had a little more time and attention to it so I mean the bottom line when in my program and this is the description on the click on site to is that a business without revenue as a hobby it's it it's not update yeah. Uh so I'm going to go in to in fact it's a quote from somebody but I think I had unknown author when I went digging on that one so I'm going to be talking about ways to get your workout there how to use your blog for example. Your website is about what you sell. Your blog is about. What's in your heart as a new photographer? I believe it's even more important to establish both because it's not about who you know in your community. It's about who knows you so building that online community with a strong blog. It's a piece of it getting your workout there for people to see being active in the community giving back to the community. If you want people to know who you are what better way than to be a volunteer and it doesn't matter matter if you're if you're photographing a nonprofit event or if you're in the boosters booth putting in a loading up the ketchup and mustard Friday night football games the point. Is You doing something with or without your camera so so I'm going to be talking in that program about everything with the exception of developing your skill set except in one area and that's essentially and you started out that way. Don't be gear hound art at this podcast podcasts that way. It's like stop worrying about your gear and pay attention to how you're going to run your business. How are you going to treat people? How are you going to build a brand <hes>? How do you learn and understand who your target audience is? Paying attention to demographics. You know a a children's photographer who opens up in. I think it's the average age is still about eighty five in bay harbor island in Miami because my grandparents lived there years and years and years ago. <hes> trying to open up a children's studio in that community is all wrong. You've got the wrong demographics on the other side of the coin going into a young community where there is an average age that that is also ties in with with you know kids that are everything from newborn to twelve fourteen fifteen year olds in and looking at those target demographics that now makes sense so that's that's the starting a photography business the basics and again I'm GonNa hit. I'm GonNa hit a little of everything including making it a point to go every possible workshop you can and especially to build your network. That's incredible. I'm sold on the first. There's two what's the next one next one is pricing. Your work and boy is that is that wrong for everybody. I we've got. We've got photographers out there especially. If if you're new I get it you paid then. Ali helped me on this one what's eight by tango four average on from lab three bucks five months well Miller lab believe it or not if you the sports one dollar eighty nine okay so let's just round it off. The two bucks so new photographer forgets all excited and they're working with a great lab like Miller's or bay photo or h in any of the prolapse and now they've got this. They've got this pipeline and they're looking. Oh my God. It's two dollars. I'm going to charge twenty see for it. I'M GONNA make a killing well what they failed a look at and I've said this repeatedly that with the exception of modern medicine photographers tend to be the worst business group on the planet Hollywood. If you ever WanNa find a group the people that invested in Ocean Front real estate in Phoenix odds are they're going to be a bunch of doctors that are in there and that somebody will come back and take a shot at me for that one but it's an expression that my dad used to use one hundred years ago and he was in real estate. The point is that you've got to pay attention to your pricing and you've got to pay attention to what you're selling. <hes> another issue is somebody calls in and says how much rate by tens and the average new photographer furrow say. Let's say they've got that stupid nineteen ninety-five price out there and that's all they'll give them well. Why wouldn't you ask well? What kind of eight by tens you looking forward? You know we have a special package that includes smaller Prince. Would you like sitting with that. Are we working with your file <hes>. Is there any distribution where these things going. I mean there's so many different things that you could tie in together with that. Oh that's great so you're saying so instead of just getting the quick sale nineteen ninety-five sal you're actually trying to add ONS and get them to come. I mean just by asking simple questions yeah and find out find out what it is that they're really looking for and what it is that they want and in addition to that. Let's go back to the nineteen ninety-five price point anybody that puts a price out like that has done absolutely nothing when it comes to looking at the total costs and we're GonNa talk about that in fact that's where the whole thing starts is is looking at what your costs are and there are so many things that people forget about one good example sample is insurance. You and I both know plenty of photographers that over the years that loss gear and then found out that their home policy didn't cover it. You need to have a commercial policy. You need to be covered when you take your equipment off to a show whether it's click con- or W._p._R._O.. Damaging U._S._A.. Or any show you've got to pay attention to your gear and if you're travelling and the airline loses it or something gets stolen off the off the floor when you're not looking <hes> sadly equipment has a tendency to walk. No matter where you are it's going to happen. You'RE GONNA put your bag down at a while shooting a wedding and sooner or later something is going to be missing or God forbid you drop something what you need to pay attention and have the right insurance and I also WanNa get in that program. I want people to understand what it is. They're selling because they're not selling prints. They're selling memories. They're selling the magic of being an on artists and there has to be a value to that and that leads into another piece of this that I'm gonNA hopefully try and get everybody to understand. This is all in sixty minutes by the way I had a guest post from <hes>. Simon King in the U._K.. Going back a few years ago and Simon wrote about <hes> photographers in the importance of needing to be more like a a fine chef. If you walk into a great steakhouse you don't go back into the kitchen say to the chef. How come how come you're porterhouse is twenty nine ninety five but at outback? It's only fourteen you don't we don't do that and yet photographers will get caught up in Dan and undermining their own quality by thinking that Oh man I gotta bring my price down or I have to. I have to explain it whether you do have to explain it but the first thing is to educate and NJ get your clients to understand what your reputation is before they walk in your door. They need to know that you are one of the best that you deliver that you can be trusted. People are not looking at what you're you're. Awards are for example when they look at your bio on your website. They're looking to understand whether or not you can be trusted to capture the kinds of images that they want to go on so long on that but moral values saying pricing the many different things in in what it is. You're going to deliver 'cause. You're not delivering prints. It's the same way you're not delivering an album. You're delivering on a wedding album for example and if you listen carefully you're going to hear a little angels up in the Corner Office right now blowing trumpets. You're not you're not delivering or selling an album. You're selling the first family heirloom of a brand new family all right now. Listen hear the trumpets and just a little floating around on the corners. Hey skip. Let's pause for a moment and partners think tap learn dot com think tap learn dot com is an online resource for creative education from top experts teaching real world learning unleash your creativity at think tap learn dot Com sky. Lem Creators of lanark. Lumina is the innovative photo editor. You need to make perfect photos in less time now with the speed and performance you deserve I'm to create incredible photos much faster blue manar producing great photography differently and we're back so skip continue with what you're saying if you look at if you look at the while two thousand plus blog posts that have been shared since we started skipped on university in two thousand thirteen you probably could find every aspect of what I'm talking about. In fact my last program goes from nine to eleven thirty. It's a favorite of mine. I've only done at one other time. It's called midnight madness and I'm just doing one monstrous brained up. I'm going through websites blogs <hes> the importance of partnerships dealing with trolls <hes>. I'm looking at my whiteboard here your network. You're a little bit on your skillset community involvement <hes> expanding your reach your demographics pricing products services and then and finishing with with all of that. How do you find balance in your life so I'm I'm really pumped over this one? That's GonNa go for two and a half hours and it'll probably go longer because if anybody these days and they've got questions the the fun of of teaching for me and I've seen this in fact I've learned a little bit of it from you buddy just because we taught a class and it's over and we got paid need to be there and we're GONNA or sometimes we didn't get paid. We just did it. The reality is that we never lose that bond with anybody that that was an attendee in and people ask you questions all all the time because they happen to hear you talk in the booth at a conference or they heard you teach somewhere in a class and it's the same with me. I'm online I make myself available at the end of my program. I give everybody my office phone. Number number might might email address might twitter account my facebook account. You know the issue that makes teaching so much fun is it's a way for so many of us to give back. Act Community. That's been really good to us and there's a reason why I've been in the silly industry my entire adult life or as I always say the time I was supposed to act like an adult and I've seen you do it one hundred times with people the come up and ask you a question about something if you can give them the answer right then you will if you can't get back to them later on and you don't think for that thank you for that compliment <hes> a lot of time when we twenty bucks for the talk for my mother <hes> and it was like people would ask her questions and it was so cool to sit there as a kid you know at the kitchen table and we always had believe it or not this huge cafeteria style coffeemaker and she would go through that because people come in constantly and ask for advice and instead of my mother giving advice you listen to what they're saying about. Uncle Pat would come in and say something. There's a problem and she was. What do you want the outcome to be? He would tell her and she would say well. Is that what you really want no what you really want and he was saying again. Is that what you want will yeah well. What do you need to do to get there and then he would tell her on all she you would do is just listen ask questions and the neat thing about it is she would say okay great pat now that you have that maitree you share that with your other brothers that are having the same problem so she she was always a firm Believer River in I'll give you the I'll help you with something but make sure you pass it on to somebody else while I already know from hanging out with you that her only big question in life was why can't I get bobby to clean his room or cooking cook cookie with the other one? We're not even go there on this project. You have four incredible classes and like I said before people can read this on your blog however sitting with you one on one and being in the room with you in answering asking questions that you may have it. That's priceless and that's why you need to attend conferences like this so stop buying the extra gear even for a year just just put a hold on it. Take a lot of these classes in then as a reward yeah then go out and buy that new lens and by the way if when you need new gear one of the things everybody needs to remember is <unk> go rent it I yes and and the other thing is that if you qualify for commercial lease look at leasing because by leasing you're tying up somebody else's assets without tying up yours and cash flow is such an issue when you're just starting there. There's a great story job using his told over the years because early on he decided that a tilt shift lens was GonNa make his some of his wedding images look different and he bought it tilt shift lens he barely we used it and wound up selling it at a loss and there are so many stories like that. I'm sure that if we get get any of the other great photographers that you and I know together everybody's got a story about some piece of gear that they thought they had to have and the point is that if you rent it and try it out for a weekend and the other thing is to partner up you know you can buy an exotic piece of year with another photographer and share it to reduce your boss further but the point is to your point you you know hold off buying gear get to know everything that is in your camera bag now. If there is a particular lands that you really need to have because of the specialty you're going into or or or lighting whatever it is his tripods whatever gear you need that you have to have that's the stuff to concentrate on and if you can hold off and rent it for a weekend or week or whatever it is. That's going to help you so much in in not having to worry about Kaslo I mean every photographer gets tired at some point all of us anybody that ever started their own business. There's that point where you just don't WanNa do macaroni or Rama noodles then night. It's like wow I I wish I was charging more for that eight by ten because then I wouldn't be doing macaroni every night. Hey skipped. Thank you so much. This again was a wealth of information while I am really excited to be doing the these programs that Click Con- I'm excited about all the people I'm GonNa meet on. I'm excited about catching up to you. Even though we both live in the state of Florida and I urge anybody. That's got that time open. Take a look at it. It's a relatively new show.

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Ryan Ruocco of ESPN and the YES Network and Lindsey Adler and Olivia Witherite of The Athletic

Sports Media with Richard Deitsch

1:00:42 hr | 2 months ago

Ryan Ruocco of ESPN and the YES Network and Lindsey Adler and Olivia Witherite of The Athletic

"You decided to upgrade your outdoor deck. So you order the essentials. A power washer a said a patio chairs and a shiny new grill. And you use your bank of america. Cash rewards credit card choosing to earn three percent cashback on online shopping or up to five point two five percent as preferred rewards member which you put towards the cost of your most essential deck addition a bird feeder apply for yours at bank of america dot com slash more awarding copyright twenty twenty bank of america corporation. Everybody this is richard dacha. Welcome to the sports media podcasts. My producers are patrick kennedy and insurance cherry this week Three guests three excellent guests. First segment is the espn and yes network broadcaster ryan ruko who calls nba games for espn yankees and nets games for the yes network and was just named espn's lead play by play commentator for women's college basketball ryan Of course also does the wnba but he now takes over for atom of meat and has the women's final four so A really good assignment for him. I know his colleagues rebecca. Lobo holly rowe really like him and advocated for him so he discusses getting that new assignment as well as Calling the nba. And what he thinks will happen with the nets this year. His podcast that he does. We'll see sebastian. And then some other broadcasting stuff so ryan ruko to start. He is followed by a two of my colleagues at the athletic lindsay and libya. With a right. They discussed the impact of qiming becoming the first female general manager and major league baseball both lindsay and liberal. Excellent pieces on this Lindsay sort of what it means for women in baseball and and And what it means for women like her who Who work in baseball on a day-to-day basis like him hang. Does anna livia wrote a piece about representation and being korean-american and what what it meant to alleviate ac- commanding getting this hope high profile job in baseball and that's where our discussion leads to talking about Being females working in sports in in lindsay's case being female on yankees beat where representation might be heading Libya talks about the skills needed to become a social media lead in sports. And i think you'll enjoy that That conversation so three guests ryan ruko lindsay adler and libya with right coming up on the sports media. Podcast all right as i said at the top Ryan rico is both in. Espn and yes network broadcaster You've seen him on espn's nba coverage. You've seen him on. Espn's wnba coverage in the new york area. Or you have leaked password. Ever you seen him on nets games and yankees games. He's here For that but the real news hook for ryan is. He was recently named as espn's lead play by play commentator for women's college basketball that means he follows adam amine calling the women's final four and women's ncaa championship knock on wood. That happens and ryan ruko joins me. Today on the sports media pockets running. Actually think i forgot the your podcast with the bathroom as well. Feel free to I'll give you thirty seconds if you want to hype bad very quickly. Why not Although that intro was lovely anyway. Richard but yeah sure are to see to is my podcast with you could follow us on spotify or wherever you get your podcast reported the wringer podcast network and we have a great time. You know discussing sports entertainment and sharing conversations with some of the biggest names in both of those field so go ahead follow it man right so you've done the wnba and so i think a lot of women's basketball fans knew your work from there with rebecca lobo and kara lawson prior etc. Now you have Now you have the assignment of being the lead for the women's college basketball coverage on espn which obviously includes the women's final four Take my audience just through the You know you're busy guy. You have a lot of dates in your contracts but dumb but this is clearly something you want it. So how does how does something like this come about. How do you get women's college basketball. Espn yeah so first and foremost. I do just want to say this. So don't forget richard. I appreciate what an advocate. You have been for so many years and continue to be for the women's game. I know that does not go unnoticed in these circles. And so i appreciate the spotlight. You always put both on the wnba end on women's college and for me. I've i've gotten so i mean i. I've just absolutely fallen in love with the wnba over the last eight years doing it with rebecca and holly and we all like to feel like we have a special bond and special chemistry. And i think you know it's been well received. We obviously now have a lot of reps together including in different styles of broadcasting. Whether it's you know your typical remotes onsite or it's remmy pros. Which is where the announced teams onsite but production is back in bristol or charlotte or wherever you studios might be or just broadcasting games from studio like rebecca and i had to do throughout the wnba and so i think the ingrained chemistry. We have and the genuine friendships. Rebecca holly and i Ridiculously close friends and on the wnba side of things. We're also incredibly close with china robinson who we work with as well and and you know i think that friendship breeds good on air chemistry and so the reps and so you know we've become so familiar with each other. We love broadcasting together. And so when adam got the gig at fox as well as with the bulls and well deserved. He's as you know he's he's as good a guy as he is talented in that left a vacancy i think rebecca and holly both kind of reached out to pat lowery who's the coordinating producer for. Wnba excuse me for women's college basketball and maybe they reached out otherwise. I don't know if they reach out to mike schiffman as well and just kind of said like hey. If ryan could work with the schedule we'd love to have them there. We know he'd be great. We all worked so well together. We all love the women's game and and so You know after they did that they had kind of given me a heads up and just said hey. We don't know if you can make it work with your schedule. But we think it'd be so fun. We'd love to do it. And i was like yeah if i make it work shore and you know i. I don't know exactly when it was but some time ago. Mike schiffman add call with me and just said hey we love for you to do this. First of all you javale interest and can you make it work with your other existing responsibilities and and we actually like went through comping. Last year's game schedule to how would lined up with both my nba on espn responsibilities. As well as my nets on yes responsibilities and there really weren't many conflicts at all because the women's college games in the regular season that we do and it's not that many for crew. But they're on mondays and thursdays. And i i don't. I rarely ever have a nets on. Yes game on a monday or thursday. My games are typically fridays. Saturdays and sundays when filling in for iron as he does his. Cbs assignments and even though it ends up totalling about twenty five to thirty nets games for me. They always with exception of a couple weeks throughout the year. Fall in those days so really wasn't much of a conflict. I say the only time that could be a little juggling is when we get to the sweet sixteen and elite eight but The good thing is i think everybody is you know willing to you know be flexible and knows how much care about keeping both parties. Happy so so it actually worked out and it gives me a chance to work with my good friends and and get to call another championship and get to tell a different chapter these women's stories so i'm pumped about it right What are they told you so far about traveling. Tenny site yes. So it's actually not have realized. Richard is like as there's like when you're usually making schedule right. Typically when we're when we're making announce schedules you have this feeling like somebody else knows. Exactly what's happening and they just haven't been able to tell yet right and so if you're someone like me who's kind of juggling networks. You might try and get a jump okay. Who can i contact. That might have an inkling as to what my schedule is. But they just haven't released yet. So i can get some intel and try and balance this well in this case there really. Isn't that person who knows things that just hasn't shared them yet. Everything is so fluid and we all are required to be so nimble because of you know the incredible circumstances that our country and our world is dealing with so as of now. I truly don't know how we are going to approach this. I have heard that we will have perhaps some games on site some games from studio some games from at home. Our incredible engineers at espn have come up with a state of the art at home recording kit for play by play. That seems to be working well on the sports that that are using right now. College football is using it Baseball's used it as well. And and i think that it's sorta going to be a hybrid of how we do these games i would imagine for the nc double a. tournament. You know knock on wood happens as you said at the top of the interview. I i mean hopefully that would be on site but everything else i think is going to be sort of dependent on the circumstances with the virus and also our access to studios and the other technology. The good thing is i know. Rebecca and i are unbelievably comfortable with calling games from studio. So if that's our model for the regular season we feel great about that And then we can you know readjust as we get towards conference tournaments and the ncaa tournament but the first couple of games. We're gonna do. Richard on the sunday after thanksgiving and then the friday after that are going to be from mohegan sun so rebecca i will do. Those games from site will get in the day before. have We'll have to task quarantine room so we get the results as well as have had an ad home test a couple of days prior so those will be on site and that's easy access for both of us. Rebecca driving from connecticut me driving from new york city right. Have you Have you given that you have called the nba games for multiple outlets And you've called the wnba obviously for. Espn i'm curious about this. And maybe the answer is. There is no difference which would actually be a cool answer. But i'll ask it anyway When you get feedback from producers when you get feedback from coordinating producers network executives etc is the feedback the same for both women's basketball in the nba or is the feedback different. And if it's different house You know that's interesting. I think the feedback from executives is very much the same you know tim corrigan. Who is our outstanding coordinating producer for nba on espn and also oversees the wnba as well as actually produces the nba finals. He will write us up like the same sort of in depth feedback for the wnba finals. As if as he would if he listens to a specific nba game and he touches base with us the same way for wnba does for mba I think that you know. They're certainly in added level of investment. If you will in trying to be creative for the wnba in its promotion because we know. Hey there's there's a lot of growth that can happen with that sport. And so i think we see a high level of engagement from executives who want to see the game grow and who knows. It should like carol stiff. Who's done an unbelievable job advancing women's sports in her time at espn. She will be very hands on and collaborative with us asking okay. How do we do this. You know and so. I think that i feel like. Espn really does a good job of its top executives paying a lot of attention to women's sports and investing in them and giving us feedback on them. Stephanie drool he was one of our top executives. I know she wrote us beautiful. Handwritten notes just applauding our coverage at the end of the wnba season so it feels similar the one area. I would say it's different. Richard is sometimes when we hear back from league executives. You know you might when i'm talking to people around mba circles. I may get feedback from people saying like. Oh you know you do such a good job on the games are we love hearing this crew or whatever it might be or you know you guys make us laugh. Or if i'm talking with the nets coaches you know and they hear me doing any. Espn game right to me. Oh we love listening to you guys that you know we like we like hearing how informed your espn broadcasts. Are we love. You guys are nets on. Yes make us laugh but the interesting thing that rebecca holly the china and i get from. Wnba team personnel is. They will say thank you so much for the energy you put into the broadcast and and the investment you make in the broadcast and how much passion you bring to the airwaves because it helps you know the credibility of our sport and that's something that i think applies more sports that don't have as large an audience right or as ingrained a fan base and what i think is really cool about that. From a wnba standpoint is foster's a really collaborative atmosphere where we all feel like we're working together to have a tangible impact on growing a sport that we know is worthy of a massive audience. And so that is. I guess one difference. I would sense between wnba. You finally decided to learn how to ice skate. So you order the essentials. Every ice skater needs a pair of blades. A new helmet and a good set of kneepads. And you used your bank of america. Cash rewards credit card choosing earn three percent cash back on online shopping rewards that you put towards the cost of an essential piece of post gaining recovery. A heating pad visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright two thousand twenty bank of america corporation. All right a couple more here Roughly how how many brooklyn nets telecasts do you do a year for for. Yes a wrap around twenty to thirty okay. All right so that's pretty significant. You get a real feel for the team What is it like in your position to call a team playoff team last year. A lot of fun those guys compete but then this year has the potential to be like anything anything from like if it all works. Maybe the nba finals. If none of it works. It's like the biggest docudrama since like you know dynasty and dallas. It's like do you I don't know do you does it. Do you have a little bit of an extra bit. Like juice. In your yeah. I'm not really asking a great question but like know. Are you sort of a little bit. More you covered the nba. Great job but are like you more charge because this year kevin durant is in town kyrie irvings in town. There's going to be national focus on the nets where there has been in the last couple of years. So what's it like in someone like in your position. Orion eagles position who you know. You're calling these as you're around these guys every day man i mean. of course. it's more exciting like i. I mean when you're when you're calling nineteen win seasons and twenty win seasons and you know twenty three win seasons and you're just it's i don't think it's as difficult in a sport like basketball compared to baseball when you have a bad team right because the action sort of sustains itself when you're calling the game but you know like i can't imagine being doing play by play day in and day out for one hundred loss baseball team because there's only about fifteen minutes of play by play action throughout a three hour baseball game. So what are you even talking about such an awful team right well with with basketball. At least you're able to fill the airwaves but man when you're in some of those games where you're down twenty five midway through the quarter and the team is thirty games under five hundred like yeah like it's not the it's not the peak of the profession and so to have to have attention around the team and to have stardom and to have greatness to watch. I mean one of the things i think is just amazing about calling basketball. Is you know who knows if this'll be the case this year. But normally you're sitting courtside watching these unbelievable individual talents and they ball out every single day right like one of the reasons. A courtside seat is a worthy investment. If you're trying to splurge on a sporting event is because you know when you go to that game lebron's going to score twenty ten boards like he's going to you just know it. It's not you could go see garrett cole and he might give up six runs in three innings that day. That's the nature of baseball right or ken. Griffey could go for five or three strikeouts in basketball. I mean these people they ball out basically every single day the true stars and so i can't wait for that too and you never know what they could do like. Every time i enter. I get ready to call a game. There's a chance we're going to be calling a fifty point performance from kyri or kevin durant and you think about where this team was. Just you know four years ago and it's hard to kind of get back in that mindset because things have gotten so much better but when sean marks took this over i was like well if they could be a contender in six years. That would be a miracle instead. This do did it in half the time. I mean richard. It makes our job so much better having these stars now and having a real chance to compete and just having the the attention and excitement around the team you seen. What's happened in the eastern conference Milwaukee made a move. Obviously drew holiday gordon hayward leaves the celtics raptors lost a couple of guys Philadelphia made some changes. You know ho- conference you know the heat or the heat. The whole conference feels like From top to bottom it's a little bit It's a little bit stronger. Because i think some of the bottom teams have Have gotten better. If you had to guess today presuming that Durant and kyrie stay healthy. What do you expect from the nets. I think did they are absolutely Finals contenders i think one thing that helps them as well. Is you know. I think they have a gm who has shown incredible creativity so if there are things that they need throughout the season to augment in otherwise championship caliber core. I think one they have the assets to be able to do that in to you know they have. The the gm who i think is creative enough to do that. So i think. I look at them as if they're not maybe. We want to see eastern conference favorites to miami because hey they just went to the finals and also i think they've made some really even if they're under the radar shrewd moves to supplement. What was already an incredibly strong roster And so miami. I'd say you put his favorites because what they just did know walkie just behind them. I love the moves. Milwaukee's made this offseason. And then i would put brooklyn right there. And at the end of the day kevin durant looks like kevin durant and you are probably going into the eastern conference playoffs. And even if you're looking at miami milwaukee and saying all they had slightly better regular seasons if you're the net. Ub be saying. Yeah but we're putting the best player on the floor. Kevin durant. he's healthy will be the best player in the eastern conference so i think they should have no doubt about being a real contender to win the east as long as durant. Kyrie stay healthy. I think that. I think that they will be a serious finals. Contender last one for me. Is you do your podcast with c. Sobat thea and you're part of a sort of an interesting Podcast grouping to me in that. An athlete is working with a broadcaster or an athlete. Is you know is working with a non athlete on a podcast and it seems to have really worked well with unc. And i wonder And this is not necessarily a new concept. But i feel like it's a concept that certainly can continue and i wonder heading forward Do you see more of this. You see more. Former athletes retired athletes sort of partnering with traditional broadcasters in a in a podcast to get the dynamic auto and maybe we'll see that but we also see as you know ryan i'll just A lot of former athletes or former coaches just do their own podcast. They don't need a like a quote unquote traditional broadcast. Or but i i think that's an interesting dynamic. I think you have a good chemistry. You guys come from different places and to me that makes for an interesting show. So i wonder from your perspective. The replication of that seems to me. That could be a pretty good formula adding forward for people. Yeah man. I appreciate that. And i agree. I think that one thing that really helped me as we had organically developed a relationship And so it wasn't it wasn't necessarily a case of like okay. Like i wanna do a podcast. Who's an athlete. I think it'd be good in picking or cc. Like oh i want to do a podcast. Who's a host like that. I you know. I can deal with her. You know get along with enough. It was genuinely years of us talking to each other about like we should do something together someday. And so there was a real organic relationship and even a thought process behind it for years before it actually came to fruition. But i do think it should happen more richard and i think it. Can i think that a lot of times home. Broadcasters for teams do have do develop genuine relationships with players on the team and maybe their maybe their friendships. maybe they're acquaintances. Maybe they're just mutual respect but there are enough of a foundation that you could definitely have a really good podcast and then that relationship develops even more once you start doing it right and so for. Cca jokes about his. He'll he'll listen to certain podcast and be like man they need a host because they need a host and he likes. He likes that. You know i can handle all this sort of xs and os of things right. And he doesn't have to worry about segue saying or you know handling reads or whatever it might be right and i'm able to you know. Get us through topics but he is for me. The number one person. I've ever seen in sports when it comes to disarming a guest i have never seen somebody better at disarming against than tabatha for a couple reasons. One he's obviously incredibly credentialed to. He is unbelievably authentic. I don't care who you are. Cc isn't going to act like he's something other than who he or share you know an opinion that's not true to who he is because of who he's talking to. He has no problem being genuine. Self and i think people respect that whoever they are you. Whether it's you know. Alex rodriguez or it's deondraye jordan or take your pick or scare coal. You know they respect. That is going to be genuine self and then we do have some weird common interests like. We're both die hard star wars and harry potter fans and. Ccoo's jokes about that too. It's like you know we come from is hilarious because we come from very different backgrounds. But we're both into the same nerdy stuff like yeah man where we you know we both also love orcas which is a random one richard. But we do so. I think that those relationships do exist. And i think it's helpful because there is there's a. There's a certain skill set that comes with the reps of being a broadcaster right that allows you to smoothly transition or at least have some experience teeing up subjects and you know kind of oh. This person said this. This said this we gotta get back to that at some point and just knowing how to do that right and then there is a comfort that the guest feels from having somebody like see that they would never feel with just having me right or just having the broadcaster and then there's an experience factor to seize had experiences that i've never had and never will have the he can relate to what the guests and then also the skillset broadcast wise develops with reps. Cc does all these nuance broadcast things now. In addition to his natural skill set in the way he naturally gets along with guests. So i i think i think is a unique entity in his personality. And how intelligent he is. how welcoming he is. How authentically is how credential is. But i think when you can find that kind of person that athlete and pair them with somebody who they have a genuine respect for. And that's one thing. I see has always like he always has given me props and praises and i think it's. It's helped me in this relationship as well with the podcast and knowing that have his respect and it helps me to be my best self and there are other athletes who have that relationship with broadcasters. You know and i think when you can find those you could definitely come up with a great podcast. I'm telling you right now. Zac britain would do an unbelievable podcast. He has great relationships with broadcasters. Like that's an athlete. I think of right away. Who i know would be incredible and so i think those relationships. It's obviously one that comes to top of mind. But i think they're out there man so yeah i think it can work appreciate ryan. Ruko is espn and yes network broadcaster. You see him on espn's nba coverage espn's wnba coverage. Yes network's nets and yankees coverage. And he was recently named to serve as espn's lead lead play by play commentator for women's college basketball alongside rebecca lobo and holly rowe and and i think ryan ruko for His time best of luck with all this and Thanks for joining me. And the sports media podcast. Thank you for having me richard. I really appreciate it. Ma'am are let's take a break from our conversation for moment to talk about something that impacts all of us and that's the stress of daily life a probably for most of you. If you're like me you have never faced more stress than you are right now given everything that is going on in this world if you are juggling kids heading back to school if you're juggling elderly parents if you're someone who's trying to figure out what your work situation is We've basically never as north americans been in this kind of situation before and if you're someone who Likes to work out more. 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Social media's lake on point and ridiculously good so For those of you in the industry who are in social media and sort of into How those strategies exist livia is one of the point people at the athletic and i'm pleased to be joined by both of them today. They me together lindsey. Olivia thanks for joining me today. On the sports media podcast. Thanks for having a her lindsay. I'm going to start with you and You were to call them on What qiming becoming the general manager of the miami marlins means for women in baseball and I was glad to see that it. It's got some steam and maybe going viral. It's a little too strong like in the world that we live in but little circles that did go viral and so many people in the industry and the business read it and it was first person. I know that's not something you always love to do. But i appreciate you put yourself out there and you you know you sort of provided something. That's really important. And that's like a perspective that you know a white male dude like myself like doesn't think about all the time in like sort of what. What does this mean for women in baseball. And does it change sort of the the paradigm when you know for more women to get management jobs for more women to get baseball writing jobs so go as long as you want here and just sort of take me through your thought process of one y you side to write the piece in to just writ large like what is came ming's hiring mean beyond qiming I wrote the piece because can rosenthal called me at a time. When i am not usually awake which is before nine. Am and suggested that. I start thinking about and working on a column about sort of what it means for women in baseball. At the time i was like. Yes sure i'll do that You know i thought about like other people call do some reporting or whatnot. He's like no right about right about what it means to you and from your perspective and from what you've seen with your experiences in the industry and i actually didn't think that i had That strong feelings on it. Necessarily i think to exist. The woman in a very male dominated industry you you see these things you feel these things you recognize them but you have to like appreciate with a little bit of like repression. I think End i started writing in just kind of ultimately. It came out very quickly. Because i think at the end of the day. This is something that i think about More than anything else in my life maybe other than my dog and it's one of the top things that i talk about other women who cover baseball and i was just really glad to see be widespread just celebration for kim and there were there. Were columns like mine or people in my situation who. I understand that kim has worked in baseball for my entire life. She's eminently qualified. She's overqualified in a way that sort of enraging but it is still a big step for women and women of color in the industry. But then there's also just a lot of you know your typical baseball guys who were dislike. Good this is great. You know we know kim to be a very capable very skilled very experienced baseball person and this is right for her and so that was what was really nice for me but i think thing that was really frustrating. As sort of the sort of settled was well once you look at it. In retrospect hiring Just just seemed so so obvious. I don't know that. Necessarily every job she interviewed for previously was the right job for her but The the resume. And the you know sort of the accolades. That were getting circulated around his like. Wait a second this This really is a big deal. In the fact that it is so so blatantly. Delayed i i wanna get to living second lindsay but one follow up there. What was the reaction to that to the piece that you wrote within baseball circles and did anything surprise. You did anything uplift you did. Anything disappoint you. Be reaction was good I heard from a number of men. I think i imagine you know if i read when i did other women's columns or pieces were i imagine it if i had read it Ten of like while. You're reading about your own experiences. There were there. Were some women who are coming up the ranks. Who said you know that they felt like it was nice to see some of the subtleties explored. But it was really a lot of men who i think. Think about these things in our cognizant of these things but a lot of the subtleties. I think are just not Those are not necessarily things that that float may be beyond our circle. And so i am. I'm hoping it was informative for people who care about these things for people who are interested in these things and That was what was that was. What i i appreciate it. I helped. i just hoped that it was informative for for for people who are looking for that it was a a live u Your piece qiming. And here's the first sentence of that piece. The marlins general manager looks like me. I saw it with my own eyes during kings introductory press conference You are korean-american and you wrote a piece about Sort of representation and what her hiring means and it was really interesting and again another piece that really got a lot of traction and social media. You don't cover like lindsey. Olivia major league baseball on an everyday basis but kim meetings hiring Had significance for you as a woman who works in sort of the larger sports sports media sports editorial ecosystem. So i'll ask you a very similar question Why did you decide to write this piece. Why why was important to you to write this for. The athletic are so similar. Story to lindsay's actually. I put out a tweet. When it was announced that command would be the next gm and One of our fellow writers. At the athletic sean reid reach out to me and said hey you should think about writing a piece about this and like you said. I'm not a fulltime writer. So i was really hesitant. I'm really rusty but the more i sort of sat down and thought about it i realized sort of similar to lindsay. Hey i have more thoughts about this than just what i put out in that singular tweet so i started to put something together before i was at the athletic for mass in oils nationals network. So i'm used to being around a clubhouse or a press box on a day to day basis where you look around and you know you see a lot of white men on a day-to-day basis. So i felt like This moment meant so much to me personally. And that's what i hope. Sort of came through in the column. I'm not used to talking about myself. Clearly you can probably tell singularly through this podcast but also on a grander scheme. I'm definitely not super comfortable with writing a column or things like that but it ended up being really therapeutic for me to put on paper exactly what this hiring meant to me. And i hope that in the grand scheme of things that even if it impacted one or two other people that it was worth it for me it was definitely a challenge but at the end of the day i think i was able to hopefully show and prove to myself. That representation is super important On a day to day level especially or not especially in but in the sport that we work in where a lot of times we just. Frankly don't see it. I'm going to get through representation in a little bit with you. Livia but again. I wanna follow up on this to what What was the reaction to the piece that you wrote from anything positive. Negative or surprising. Yeah there is a little bit of negative pushback not a lot. But i think that that's sort of what happens. When you comes with column writing and me sort of inserting myself into this situation. I was really hesitant about that. And i think that The editors are mlb editor. Emily casey at the really great job of helping me sort of hone in on exactly what i wanted to say. But overall so much positive sentiment. I was really really great. Fluidity that on social media and just from a lot of fellow colleagues in other writers in industry to reaching out to me and thanking me for putting it together Immense a lot. And i think it sort of shows also that there aren't maybe a lot of people who could write a column like this just because of you know i am korean-american chron american or asian american journalists working in the united states baseball. So i was really happy to see that in just really grateful that i got a lot of nice feedback from that was really really supportive and i felt like i sort of needed in that moment. I was a little unsure. So i'm super grateful. Lindsey i want to ask you about This is gonna come up like like kind of like not the greatest question of how it's phrased but you will understand the to question and that is. How much do you feel your gender on a daily basis in baseball. How how how much are you sort of. Always either reminded or poignantly aware that that you are female in baseball circles. It is so hard to describe this. Because i have tried to describe it to some women who are like casual baseball fans over the last week or we can half It's really hard you know there's times where it really feels like. It doesn't matter. They're times when i feel like honestly being around men and conversing with mostly men Throughout the day whether it's my friends or people cover Sort of makes it difficult for me to exist in larger female only circles I think the example that may help is that. Like when i started covering the yankees and the mets in before spring training two thousand eighteen i went out and bought i bought mostly like grey cotton dresses gray sweaters things like this just very very neutral clothing and it's just i wanted to present as neutral as possible that's it it's a pipe dream you know it has here that goes down to my waist. I have a very high pitched voice. I am clearly just a woman in in a in a baseball clubhouse but that was something that i felt like would at least sort of take one element of i guess. Feminine femininity off the table but now two years in two and a half two and a half three years in. i'm much more comfortable. And this spring training. I had packed a pair of white pants with butterfly prints on them. And i was like you know what It's it's a nice day in florida. I'm just gonna wear these to the clubhouse and it is point. I am much more comfortable wearing floral clothing. Much more comfortable wearing butterfly pants. You know it's just you have these kind of like old school baseball people being like adler nice pants in. It doesn't necessarily matter but the thing is like there is a big instinct for me to kind of downplay. Some of those like traditional presentations but also nothing. I do can make it so that. I am not seen as different and i think it's it's good and it's bad i feel i feel the effects of being a woman who covers baseball win. Players are more open with me about their about some of their families about you know. It's it's very different. If i say to player nan can i talk to your wife So it's it's just a it's just a strange range and i wouldn't say that it's necessarily bad or painful or fraud. I think women who've come before me have really helped kind of lay the groundwork so that it's not so bizarre but it is it is definitely omnipresent thing in something. I think about a lot appreciate you answering that. I can't relate to a book it honestly sound exhausting to have to do those calculations on a daily basis. That something i've ever had to do in my in my career. That's how i would describe it. I would say that. I don't necessarily feel that you know the people i cover respect to me less because i'm a woman i think. At the end of the day the people white cover care that i am hopefully presenting an accurate an interesting look at the new york yankees. So i think i am. You know necessarily competing with the other people on my b in that way. But i do think the job is maybe a little bit more exhausting for me in a way. That's just very difficult to describe libya. I wonder if you can relate to that because in your piece you talked about being Eighteen and working for the orioles and nationals owned broadcast network. that's An asset for those who are outside of the baltimore. Dc area and you wrote something that You know you you sort of in your piece you were sort of examining just your own role in in this sort of environment and you know how being young impacted how being asian impacting it. How being a woman impacting. It was some combination of all three. And i just wonder from your years in the business i would. I would guess that you must be. You must relate to what lindsey said even though you know you are necessarily in baseball clubhouse every day but you what you were working in sports every day. Yeah so. I started working in the industry really young and i think obviously when you're eighteen years old and even myself now twenty seven. I'm very aware that i have a lot to learn about myself. And so as i sort of entered the industry i was raised and i address this in the piece i was raised an adopted so i was raised in a really white area so i sort of just thought that that was the way the world looked and so when i started working baseball That sort of confirmed my like false idea. Because everywhere i looked around you know it was just like white men and things like that so as i started to grow in industry and i started off as an intern and sort of rose through the ranks at massin. I started to realize that. Sometimes you know i wasn't always being taken seriously or things like that and then i sort of had this three headed monster looking back at me. Oh is it. Because i'm young because i'm a person of color is it because i'm a woman and it took me a really long time to sort of figure out that that was happening to me and when i did obviously it was a little jarring and obviously sort of naive to make it that far in my life without realizing that but i think sort of wrapping it back into kim and i'm really grateful that people in the public i will have the opportunity to succeed on public level but also to see how she handles when she make a bad move or some shortcomings there. I think it's really important for people to see a well rounded individual and a human being in such a public role. I wanna stick with you Where does your optimism or pessimism. Lie when it comes to representation in sports media sports sort of management world heading for with people who look like you You know. I am more optimistic than not because i have faith in the generations. After my more multicultural they just. They look at things differently. You look at gender sexuality differently. But i'm also not naive and Maybe people were saying that about the generation of the sixties. And then look what happened. So where where does your what is your. Where do you stand. Where do you lie on If we look a little bit long scale on on on these organizations looking more reflective of what america looks like. I'm actually really optimistic. Which is maybe. I'm being naive again. But i am and i think that's a big reason for that is first of all you. Have someone like in such a powerful position but then there also People like me. Or lindsey enrolls now where were available to you know. Sort of see the next generation of sports writers or sports media people coming up in industry. And it's something that is so on the forefront of my mind is representation diversity and the importance of having multiple people starts a room. And so i think that as i personally and other people start to move into positions where we can hire people and sort of shape the future of the industry. I know that because of the ideas are forefront of my mind. I think that will start to see some widespread change for a before finished with lindsay on asking her a baseball questions about sort of the marlins and commands challenges for my audience who There are a lot of Young people who listen people who are in college want to get into the industry can you Can you tell people what you do on a on a daily basis and And how one would go about trying to get that job. Let's say if they were eighteen. Nineteen twenty years old right now. So i am the social media lead at the athletic so i do social and digital marketing for all of our accounts. I think that i get this question. A lot of how you can sort of break into the industry. I was very lucky very aware that i didn't start at square one. I sort of had an opportunity to start as an intern. Really young i would say specifically Cume just make sure that you're really plugged into what you wanna do. So if you want to work for the team or things like that. Make sure that you're aware of what's going on. In the industry as the sports industry and also the social media industry and then in addition. To that i would say. Just make sure you're really willing to work that you love it. That sounds silly. But i work a lot of hours. When i was in a baseball schedule obviously worked a ton of hours. And i think that if you aren't one hundred percent passionate about it don't do it. I think it sounds kind of silly to discourage people but it is a lot of work to cover something as fun as basketball. But i would just encourage people to make sure that that's really what they wanna do. And then go for it Maybe it's on a local level. Interning a radio station or tv network. Sort of how. I got my start and then from there i was able to have access to see and do a lot of things that some bigger writers that i admired. We're doing On an everyday basis. I appreciate that wants to find time livia. You know if you're sort of handling social for the athletic would have been very very small minimum amount of followers for all the different social media outlets but now You know i feel like you're controlling basically like a small country with the leave with the amount of with the amount of combined. Let's even just take twitter. For example the amount of Twitter followers the athletic f accounts have and then combine them with all the writer's sort of followers that we have that that's a pretty. That's pretty powerful social media. Don't give me a big head over here from cadence. Thirteen and the co creators of slow-burn comes the edge. Houston astros a six part documentary. Podcast series that details. The entire story of the baseball team driven a win. No matter the cost last year the houston astros were caught in a massive cheating scandal rocking the sports world and putting the legitimacy of their 2017 world series in doubt led by visionary general manager and a front office staff with mathematicians engineers computer programmers. The extras went from baseball's laughing stock to world series champions bestselling author and journalist. Ben writer wrote the definitive book on the astros pathbreaking approach but as it turned out he had underestimated just how far some of them would go to win now. He's going back to the story. He thought he knew to find out what happened. And why the most innovative organisation in sports pushed itself not just to the edge but over it here from the people who were there players. The astros crossed the unlikely outsider. Who helped uncover the truth. The edge the houston astros is produced by prologue projects in a presentation by cadence thirteen listening. Subscribe for free on apple. Podcasts spotify radio dot com or wherever you get your shows art lindsay. We're gonna finish up with baseball questions all right. So i miss my knowledge of the marlins as cursory. I'm not apologizing for that by the way but listen. They had a ridiculously good year. I mean almost inconceivable year given all the things that happened with that team with covid they still ended up making the playoffs. they have been lambasted for Some of their trades over the last couple of years since the sort of the gd ear jeeter era came in. But now at least if you sort of look i mean it seems like they do have some talent in the minors so a very very broad question like how challenging is this job for qiming. What is the marlins talent base and like was it. I'm glad she has the job. Obviously but like is it a. Can you be successful g. Am i guess is my question of the floor of the miami marlins. Well the fact that you almost called in the florida marlins kinda relevant. They have been I think that like you know. I think i saw a lot of jokes. Commentary like wow coming really likes challenge but like okay. I think what people are forgetting. Is that the marlins are no longer owned by jeffrey loria. They no longer have david samson in the front on. You know it's like it's it's different. She very clearly has the support of derek. Jeter it's you know from my point of view. Like the marlins are kind of like janki south you know. They have gary denver. Seri believe he's in a farm director role A couple of other people. I've known throughout player development have also gone to the marlins and don mattingly seems like a manager and he worked his ass off this year to keep that team on track through a lot of adversity. And i honestly think that this is a pretty good role for any gm. They have a good talent base. They are very clearly excited throughout the organization about what they're doing. And i think i think it can be really fun. I mean i think over the course of a full season or you know one hundred forty games. If that's what it comes to next year or something like that. Do i necessarily think that the marlins will be contenders. Probably not no. But it definitely doesn't look as far off as it as it used to it and i think that's i think that's really important thing i think it's i think it's really important that in this role can clearly has the support of jeeter the organization and then also just knows a lot of the various established baseball people. Who've who've been there. I think the mark of a good gm and this is something that i see a lot covering the yankees is knowing how to delegate to staff up around you. And i think she already has a good foundation for that end it will probably be. I mean i would think it would be pretty attractive. Place for For for smart baseball people to go in the future. We'll we'll say I know that You're going to be focused on the yankees. The yankees will always be good just given the finances. But it's i feel like you're beat is going to be so much more fun now. That the mets have steve. Cohen is an owner because like part of the narrative of both teams is going to be like who controls back page supremacy in new york which i think just as the yankees beat writer as well as a mets beat writers. Just gonna make both jobs more fun you you buy that Unfortunately no i think now yankees fans. I think there's a lot of yankees fans who really love the george steinburner years. the like. it's something. I think about a lot is how like george kind of accidentally turned that fan base into thinking that players should just be paid. What they're worth. I get a lot of people saying just like just just pay. Just just pay for whoever takes. I think steve cohen comes in here and he's really advantageous position because he didn't lose money last season like everyone else he comes he just starts spending. He starts building a team My twitter mentions. My story comments my instagram message. Requests are just going to be like the send. Why aren't the yankees in on this guy. Why aren't this I think it's definitely going to be really interesting. Because yeah for however long. We just haven't seen the mets operating like the yankees. Do and i think a lot of yankees fans feel like the way the build their roster now Which from my point of view has a lot of merit. but i'm not a fan I think i think a lot of fans see it as kind of decidedly un- yankee like right now. So if steve cohen comes in and starts running mets in the way the yankees fans think the yankees should be run I mean it's going to be kind of funny kind of Trainwreck i yeah. That's that's kind of what i see coming down the line. Get that lindt lindor column ready. When the mets got him i can't lindsay adler covers the yankees for the athletic right. Some fantastic soft. Follow her on twitter. If you're certainly yankees fan or if you're a baseball fan and as i mentioned olivia with right is Social media leave for the athletic and Just honestly just independently of her coming on this. Podcast me working with her she. The athletic social media is really really good. She is talented a shit. She knows what she's doing lindsay. Olivia thank you so much for joining me today on the sports media. Podcast and i'm sure we'll talk in the future again. All right back in the studio thanks to ryan lindsay and libya for Pop it on the podcast and for their time and conversation If you like this kind of stuff. Head to the archives Check out what we have Prior podcast to this was buffet. Mcgraw the hall of fame basketball coach from notre dame who's now acc network broadcast during grant wall and one of the preeminent soccer journalists in this country before that james andrew miller on the espn layoffs. Before that chris fowler on Collin college football this year jordan. Cornet shape hepler cornet. Being married couple doing radio. Espn two the archives Check out the things you like. Please if you do like this lease a five star review in a nice a nice note on i tunes or stitcher or wherever you listen to this stuff All that stuff helped short all right again. wanna thank. everybody came. Thirteen from chris corcoran spencer brown to john. Mcdermott obviously thanks to patrick. And sean and we will see soon on the sports media pocket.

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Episode 493  A look back over 2020

Shutters Inc

35:24 min | Last month

Episode 493 A look back over 2020

"With bruce williams hi and welcome to episode four hundred and ninety three of shutt- zinc the final episode. For twenty twenty year. We thought would never end. This is bruce williams from shadows inc. Podcast dot com and joining me. Once again from allentown pennsylvania mr joel. Ma hello bruce. How're are you doing. I'm great. I honestly slipped for about ten hours last night and that is double what i normally get so seriously. I am seriously jealous also jealous. It were done for the holidays. I'm going to have to have moved australia by get time off. Yeah we we normally take a break on. The podcast for batum from christmas through to australia day. Almost which is the twenty sixth of january. That sounds like a glenn. Kind of thing okay. So how's your week been know it's been. It's been pretty much like every other week this year. Nothing terribly exciting. I'm still hanging in there. You know here in the us. We're kind of living in an alternative universe right now anyway so Yeah i'm still kicking. That's good i was thinking last night know is it. Is it just me or does the period between november four in january twenty feels like another four years. Unfortunately it does. And i have to tell you are are lustrous. President is his darnedest to make you feel like another four years. I i would suggest that he is going well out of his way to try and accomplish that. Yeah yeah anyway. I thought this episode. We should just look back over. What has obviously been the the most unique of years in living memory but from a photographic angle and just. I wanted to know what you've been up to over the whole of this year. And you know what would have been the highlights would have been the low points you didn't. You didn't tell me this was going to be like a sob story. Sad kind of we'll have there been any high points always high points your let me let me see if i think in dense. My year down My year started out looking like it was going to be a truly amazing year. So i had a ton of speaking engagements book like literally throughout the whole year. Yup four the first two. I two months of the year. I was on a speaking tour. With olympus olympus had just released the album dam one mark. three and i was literally crisscrossing. The country doing like two and three and four stops a week at a photo retailers. And we were doing these launch events to show up camera and i was a speaker at imaging. Usa which is the event. It's held by the professional photographers of america. I was a speaker at wpi. In las vegas. My last trip was down to in The very first week of march the very beginning march. I spoke as the keynote speaker at the southwest. Florida camera club council event and i knew when i flew home from that event. It was the sunday evening. I i knew going through the airport. In myers florida the world was changing And and that's when it really hit me. Because i had been following the news. I've been following the news. Since january distinction was going on and by that time we already had reporting suitcases. You know starting to happen in the west west coast of the us but the airport in fort myers. It was just different row. People were really display schizophrenia. And we were into mask wearing it or any of that kind of stuff that nobody was talking about masks yet. This was this was right at right at the cosmic. Were people socially distancing by then people were i mean. I don't want to say that they were doing it like hey we need to be paying attention. But it was very clear. People were very tentative about other people and the airport. This is a four mars. Airports a fairly small airport. It was packed. It was almost kind of like people getting out of dodge because that week that was the beginning of what would be college spring break so you would expect a lot of traffic coming into the airport but there was a lot of traffic going out of the airport and i came back and then you know within a couple of days we were talking about all. This is gonna get bad and then within a week and a half. We went into our two week. National lockdown and my entire counter got wiped out just wiped out. Wow so i kinda sat there for a week or so. Like what in the world of my venue i can't. I can't really go into a studio and at the time. I was leasing a student that i had been in for less than a year. Yep in in a kind of an artist community type setup. It was awesome said. Let's spice i remember seeing the photos. Yes i couldn't couldn't use that. I couldn't do shoots All my speaking agents were gone. And fortunately i've always kind of had a bit of an entrepreneurial mentality so i thought well maybe there's an opportunity to teach online and so i spent about another week looking at my options. Zoom was kind of an obvious. One i look at webinar platforms. I don't know if you've ever taken any webinar. Webinars are all photography or otherwise. I've done a lot of marketing webinars. And they're horrible. They're just painful. You know you sit there and you're watching your computer screen and you're eager to learn but the person who's giving the presentation there staring down a laptop camera. Which of course is low quality. And you know you're listening to ums and ahs and it's like okay so let me let me share my screen with you and then five minutes later. They're like oh. Oh gosh. I'm so sorry i thought i had this prepared. And it's just like oh. This is so painful so i. I can't do that. I just i can't. I can't agree to put people through that. So i really started working with the idea of. How can i put together a presentation that is going to be as close to the in-person experience as possible. But it's going to happen on pure scream and a little bit of trial and error. I use webinar platforms. And i've got it down now. I can actually do them with zooms to because a lot of camera clubs they use zoom but i developed Guess i'm at six sixteen or seventeen different presentations. Now that are designed to do you know to to be presented online. I'm able to teach lading and portrait. Waiting use a piece of software. That comes out of germany called set alight three d. Which it's just incredible. Is that the thing that does the like the the layouts of wave sit up lots and cameras and where you mobilize set. It's all three d. and its virtual. You can walk you through. Its spin around. Look at it from above below between all it's amazing and so i'm able to you know actually not just show. Hey you can put a late here but it gives an you know a real time rendering of whatever you do with light and i'd say well if i moved to light six inches to the left look at how the shadow on the nose changes and you see that shadow software so accurate that i can basically get my proper exposure in the software using my shutter speed apertures etc setting the whites to the power. They are and then. If i were to take that diagram that i've created and then go into my studio set my lights at the same distance. Same power steam height same camera settings. Take a shot. It's perfectly exposed. Wow so so it's not. Just the kind of an illustrative thing. It is a legit rendering. What really happens you can work with. Color temperature and color balanced. Gels you name it. It's incredible the is has really helped me to be able to create a good. You know really really good experience and and so for each of the different classes that i do that involve studio. Were i have several what they refer to set. Put the other so. I can go from one kind of a lady took one kind of leading to another and really walk people through the whole thing and show it to them kind of in real time but also from way more angles than i could possibly do with cameras. Set up you know and people watching me in studio so that has really kind of been my lifesaver. Because i started doing those. You know those Online presentations and marketing them through my website. Social media and have gotten great turnouts and then continuing with the entrepreneurial spirit. i started Basically digging through the internet and looking for contact information for any and every camera club in fort organization that i could find and have sent out emails and introductions to people and so at this point i'm doing anywhere from usually a light week is about four presentation but as many as eight or ten presentations a week now while And i'm able to do them in places that i would normally never get to do them. Because for instance a camera club that might be in california on the east coast. So camera club in california. You can't afford to fly media california and then pay me to do a presentation but when you take all the travel expenses out of the equation they can afford to have your presentation remotely I've done some presentations in in the uk. Canada haven't gotten any invites australia. Yep we'll see so so that honestly that's kind of been now. I've been surviving. It evolved into this okay. You call yourself a photo educator let's get really better at educating and so I do have a wife who is a cognitive psychologist and college professor. She is really good at bouncing ideas off of then and helping me with things and even the little thing. I told you about last week the presentation i did for olympics where i didn't show any pictures all yet I've really been trying to teach myself as part of my presentation. Slowdown how more stories to make it more audibly engaging because it really pulls people in so that's that's been a big part of it and then photography wise. I still try to pick up my camera every day. Take a picture of my dogs. Take iraq to at lake. I and that's something. I think i would will always do no matter what my career maybe I've just even when i don't have my gear with me. I'm taking pictures of iphone just because something that's interesting You ever do anything with them. But it's it's there so you've just given me the the perfect bridge to something. I wanted to bring up later in the podcast over this last week. You might not be familiar with this but l. listeners. Already are about fourteen months ago. I gained employment with a recording studio in north sydney and ninety nine percent of what we do is record an audio books over this last week. I've seen recording the memoir of a girl who created a business out of kitchen back in sort of iran about two thousand four and built what ended up becoming a multimillion dollar worldwide business and she has just closed that business down in twenty nine teen and she was reading her on memoir. So's working with her over this last week and she had one particular comment. That just really stuck in my mind and she said being creative is not something we choose to do. It's something we have to do. And i thought oh. Yeah for anyone who's creative really is like that. I feel like if. I'm not being creative in some fashion. I feel like i'm wasting my time. Like i'm wasting my life a does that. Do you feel that way. I do absolutely and i think it's there. I've i've observed variations on that with different people for me. I i have taught a few college courses here in the us about creativity which were a lot of fun. You know the idea that they would let me loose on a room. Full of nineteen to twenty. Wow we go okay. But i always give them an alternative definition of creativity is Even though the dictionary when you look up creativity doesn't say anything about art specifically right we into associate creativity with being artistic and it's a horrible association because what it does is it. It actually eliminates a lot of people and forces a lot of people to feel. I'm not creative. So let me give you a little bit of science background. The science says and and has determined. My wife gets very upset. When i say. Science has proven because scientists are are very careful. Never say we've proven anything. yeah okay so apparently. That's a bad word. it's time right. So science has taught us that every human being is born with a a set amount of creativity. So it's not so much more or less. It's a set amount now. Imagine kind of like a scale to parallel scale. So you've got scale. And i've got a scale. One of us may be higher on the scale when we're born then the other one that's possible but both of us have the ability throughout our lives to not only climb the scale to essentially be more creative but also to expand our our bucket of creativity. So everybody's got it. But i think you know one of the things for for me. Creativity in many ways. It's a survival instinct. And i don't mean like the oil i have to. I have to be creating something or i'm going to die kind of mentality. i just mean steal it. i'm going to steal it from steve. Jobs steve jobs gave an incredibly iconic graduation speech at stanford university and he talked about the idea of connecting the dots. And that's really what i think. Creativity is my definition. It's solving problems. Even as photography's the talker for we're odd bunch. I i would argue that. We're actually kind of rather stupid in many ways. And what. I what i mean by that. Is we spend thousands of dollars on camera gear and the minute. We've done that or the minute. We've effectively started down that path we developed. It's kind of like this medical medical knowledge of sorts. I like to call it epi copy. It's not a real word. I sort ethic. Opportunity is what happens when a photographer has spent all this money and they are no longer happy with an image a photograph. That is not truly epic so they will choose to see something and have that gut responsive. Ooh i should take a picture but then immediately have another response it says. Oh but wait. I don't have lens or other lens. Lloyd's not quite right. Or i can't get close enough and then they don't take the picture of of that they won't shoot it all. We're all guilty right. Don't basically what are we doing. We're essentially choosing to create problems so really. Creativity is problem solving. I've seen something. I've got this epic concept or or idea in my head based on that. But now i've got to solve the problem. How do i make it look epic so for me it is. I see it as kind of a survival instinct. Creativity is It is just getting from one point to the next. I mean i. The steve jobs analogy is one of the best announcers i've ever heard for the idea of being creative and i think it's fair to say that people who practice creativity so again it's not about being some kind of god given gift. It's about practicing. It's about deliberately choosing to try and use creative thinking and to try. And look at the world creatively people who choose that as a habit and make that a habit they do tend to see things that other people don't see. It's not so much a matter that that comes natural to them because you could be a person that indeed is like out there and you do see the world really different. But you're not necessarily going to to meet your creative potential until you make it a habit to put that that mindset to us so it really is. I mean it's it's like anything else right. The more you practice the better you get at it. And so for me. I i do. Creativity is it's a habit it's a lifestyle. It's a mindset and i'm not the greatest photographer. I learned that. When i was a kid i learned that i never would be. My biggest. success is the fact that let's see. How old am i now. I had a camera for forty nine years my entire life. I have had a camera. I pay my bills with my cameras. And i'm still doing that. And that's my success alexa breaking into the podcast briefly to mention that we now have a on account. A you get any value at all from ou- photographic giggle. I h wait. We'd really appreciate it if you can spare a couple of bucks a month just to help. Keep the service running. The lincoln day in the china is not j- apprec- added now back to the podcast. Okay questions with that notice. What makes you claim to not be a great photographer. Because i could. It's it's really it's not. I'm not trying to be modest on being very practical so to give you the background in that statement though. I had a mentor. When i was in high school. Who realize that. I was a little too big for my britches. I cut i was a teenager. So cut me a little slack. But but i was cocky. I was pretty good. I had won a bunch of awards in my mind. I was like the world's greatest photographer. When i was like seventeen years old like any teacher would be an this guy really kind of took me apart and then let me sweat about it for a few days and you know i didn't have the guts to bring it back up again. Our is devastated and finally he reached out to me is like so You given up yet. I'm like. I don't know really what i'm doing. Is you know. And then he kind of put the pieces back together to make me realize and it wasn't just a kind of take my knees out from under me thing. He he broke it down. He went through my work with me and showed me other photographers work and showed me where i wasn't meeting the mark and he was right so it was very you know he was a little harsh but his response was very constructive. And and i do i mean. Even today i could go. I could go through list after list after list of photographers. Whose work that i've seen and you know i just think to myself god. I hate them. Just a little bit. Because i i could never see the world. The way they see the world. I've been doing this all these years and one thing about creativity to at least i find and there's some science behind this. The older we get it does become a bit more of a challenge to be creative of the on one hand. We learn more tools and we learn more tricks which that is definitely very helpful but on the other hand. There's this human thing of kind of been there done that seen it. Yeah so you know. If you are truly dedicated to being creative it becomes more of a challenge. Do things that you've never seen before to do things that are different. That are truly unique and in so it again. That's where i go back to build a habit around it so for me. I say it not to get somebody to me. Oh no you're great. I'm very proud of my work. My work is very hito oriented. It's good quality. But i can go one photographer and i. I am honored to frequently be mentioned in the same sentence but but this young woman is just. She's late years. Beyond where i would ever be capable of and that's lindsay adler people will frequently say. Oh you do some kind of like lindsay adler does and i'm like yeah. I mean she's way beyond me. Just way beyond me. And i love her work and i follow her on instagram. But i'd put you above her really. Yeah like you bruce. No seriously i think your mastery of light is better than hers. But then maybe that's just subjective. Maybe you know let's face it. I mean all all photography all creative output. I mean they're certainly. Yeah but i think you know part of what. I walked away from that dressing down that i got from. That mentor was just kind of be careful about how you perceive yourself and you've heard me talk about before always remember you're y and it was really kind of a just remember why you use the camera and why you picked up the cam in the first place and and make that your focus even being an ambassador for a company like olympus and having the opportunity to travel and teach and do all these presentations hell yes. It's awesome for the ego. I'm not gonna lie. i'd be. I'd be lying if i said otherwise but at the end of the day it's also gotta remember. Why am i taga for still. What is it about photography and the mission statement that you hear me all the time you hear it in everyone of my videos. I say it in the beginning of talk chad. It's on my website helping photographers understand. The how's and why's behind making consistently great photographs. I stumbled on that. After one of my early very early talk chats and part of the reason why i say it every time we get in front of a camera and every time i do my lai show is as a reminder to me so that everything i'm talking about everything i'm producing all content of generating all the classes. I'm teaching. It holds me accountable to that mission that also that i'm not out there making a video saying will. This is better than that lens. There's plenty of people doing that already and for them. It's good that we have people that do that. But i you know. I have my lane and my lane impart comes because i've been at this for so long. I've got a lot of experiences that i can share and hopefully help people avoid some of the pitfalls that i stumbled into and kind of show them a path because at the end of the day they started up the camera and and gain the experience. You can watch youtube videos in the world. You're not going to be a good photographer. Correct so so. My hope is to be able to kind of take my experience and help people make sense of all the information. That's out there so that they're they're able to get closer to their goals quicker. Yeah nice nice. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. It's i don't know where i'm going from that i was gonna say. Are you gonna go back to this. Like incredibly depressing year. We had Look you know for me. You know i. I haven't picked up the camera a whole lot. I think the the most use my camera was when catherine. I went on al holiday which got massively tailed. What was meant to be you know three weeks in. Croatia ended up being ten days. Road trip around new south wales because we couldn't leave the state So i took a lot of photos on ten day trip. Yeah beyond that. I've not had a love Opportunities to get the camera out so yeah. It's certainly been an interesting year. That's for sure. It has for sure. I mean i haven't i haven't photographed a model like working with a makeup artist and a model. I have done that since the first week in march when i was in florida. Yeah i can honestly say if i were average it out a little bit. You know. there's probably a day. That i miss here there but i usually manage to shoot something every single day but i'm not kidding. You could literally be you know. I'm walking the dogs around the block. And it's a rainy day. Anders interesting leaf with water droplets laying. There i'm gonna make kind of an abstract of it. It's just it is a discipline. It's a matter of okay. Well i am not shooting the kinds of things that i like to shoot. So it's kind of like that whole creative processes. It is kind of on hiatus right now But i i have a discipline about being creative and looking for things and things that that are different and unique and different ways to do it and just like that leaf sitting on the ground. I pictures been done a million times over. I've done that probably a thousand times with a phone or whatever but hey it looks interesting. So what can. I do today. That i've never done before. And how can i change it. So it's just. It's kind of creative problem. Solver problem and it's just a matter of keeping that thought process sharp and alive and i don't know that i'll ever actually be able to shut that off because i i kind of get too bored with things if i'm not just looking at things. Beverly yep yeah well like. I said you know when when i heard this girl you know reading from her memoir this statement that your creativity is something we choose to something we have to do. Just sure absolutely resonated with me differently. Oh yeah without a life is life is boring absolutely. I think a part of their you know a part of the the having to be creative it comes from from having a passion for something and i've always kind of worked with philosophy if if i can do things that i'm passionate about then the reality is i'm going to work harder than most people but the other reality is it's not going to feel like work. It's exactly exactly and i can. I can honestly say. Probably my my biggest personal accomplishment is that i've gotten through my life without ever really having a job. I've always loved what i do. Don't get me wrong. i have my bad days. I have assignments or whatever that is all. I can't believe i got to do this. it sure we all have those. Yeah but but the net some of it all. I love what i do. And i can't get enough still can't get enough. Are you familiar with the rutta mark. Manson the subtle out of not giving a fuck now. Okay yes yes. I've seen that. Yes it's a great book. And the way i got introduced to mark. Manson was because a friend on facebook. Posted a link to an article that he had read. This was before his book came out. And i clicked on the link. And the i may be paraphrasing the title but it was seven questions to help you find your lots purpose. And one of those questions was What makes you forget to eat. And and then expanded on that and said if you can find that thing that makes you forget to eat. And then that is the thing that you want to be focusing on because as you say you know if if you can make that your your life's vocation then it will never feel like work because you get so engrossed in it. You love it so much that you know time just flies by and that absolutely resonated with me as well so yeah yeah i mean absolutely if you can have fun doing what you're doing it's it's never to feel like that's that's kind of the beauty of it and then given it. This is a creative endeavor and especially with the work. I do now the idea that that. I can have an idea and you know. Take that idea from my head and put the pieces together in front of a camera and essentially created ranch life and and then even take that idea further by going to photoshop and maybe using several images the rain together. That's just the idea that the creative the creative ability that we have right now Just in terms the tools that are available. Just it's amazing. I mean let's face it. If we can think it we can create it. Yeah which is incredible. And so it. Even as the technology evolved throughout my life. You know with photography There are a lot of people of my generation and over that they don't like change. they're afraid of technology. They're not comfortable with technology and they kind of complain about it. Fortunately i'm i'm not a normal baby boomer saudi. I love the change. I love the technology. I love learning new things because in the course of learning new things all of that's expanding my potential in terms of what i can create and what i can dream and imagine so i love that. I just think that the technology we have. It's just where it's going off incredible but it's it's a great time to be a creator. There's no doubt about it. Yes absolutely absolutely and it'll be even better when we can move freely. So what are your plans for. Christmas job well. Unfortunately we're we've decided my wife is compromised. So we've been extremely careful Throughout all this. And you know we. I have two young grandsons. And they're not that far away so i'm sure we will resume with them multiple times a week. So we see them a lot and my and my my son and daughter-in-law they've even gotten smart enough now. The the oldest grandson is six and they've figured out that if they actually hand him the phone. We become babysitters because he will. He cuss throughout the house for an hour nonstop. So that's kind of a running joke right now because they thought that we didn't really realize that's what was happening but he moves around enough that you know there are a couple times. I really like. They're cleaning cooking like war babysitting. What's but it's great so we we at least have a really good connection and we you know could spend time with him but for the holidays were pretty much going to stay hunkered down and for the first time in my life. I've gotten to the point where i actually really look forward to weekends and not working so i have like ever since the start. I in crushing it through throughout the week developing content and developing. You know new presentations and teaching. So we get to the weekend and we've been watching a lot of movies and just kinda chilling and i've gained a couple of pounds. That's going to have to get worked on just like you know so So we're at least we're kind of the mindset you know there's no sense in in emotionally fighting this i'd much rather get to the other side and be able to back on it as opposed to being stupid now and not getting through it so and and here in the states. It's worse now than it's been since the beginning things are insane right now. Lot of lockdowns going back into place. See we're just we're just gonna hang tight and you know. Get the other side. Good to huma. Will i wish you well and stay safe. Thank you sir. Yeah and yeah you guys. I mean at least you guys get to move around a little bit but have a wonderful holiday so i i guess i should ask. When when do we start again. Like what is the protocol for the australian holiday. The podcast here. I don't know i honestly done. I did speak with glen via text this week. And he says he said hey might probably not back this week. But she'll be right for next week and said don bothe- i said joe and i are going to record the last episode for the year this weekend. i said so. We'll we'll pick it up next year so But he's he's kind of working through it going through probate at the moment. Which is. I'm sure if you have the same process in america but it's sort of the legal technicality ripping wrapping up the estate of someone deceased transferring of ownership of stuff and he's got all that took contained within obviously not the best time of year to be having to faisal that sort of stuff. So that's for sure. But watt good. I'm i'm glad it's at least wrapping up for very good. Yes but we definitely need to get you on more often. It's it's great to have a chat with you and to get any thoughts for show or might well. You have a good christmas and a happy new year. Thank thanks same to you and hopefully we'll talk again soon. Definitely definitely i take care. Shattered aren't questions. Comments and feedback email. The boys shot his podcast dot com.

bruce williams shadows inc. mr joel Ma hello bruce olympus olympus one mark Florida camera club council america australia lindsay adler fort organization west west california batum allentown steve jobs ninety nine percent fort myers schizophrenia six inches
Effectively Wild Episode 1560: Unearthing Negro Leagues History

Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast

1:18:15 hr | 7 months ago

Effectively Wild Episode 1560: Unearthing Negro Leagues History

"King. Ranger. His voice trembles. Law. Hello and welcome to episode fifteen, sixty of effectively wild fan graphs baseball podcast brought to you by a patriot. Supporters I'm Meg Rally Fan Fabulous and I am joined as always by Ben, Lindberg of the Ringer Ben. How're you doing? Okay, watchdog stoeffler get. No I've been working I'm sorry. Okay I'm Marie. The still is. The Stove yes ready! Someone else to talk about it other than my wife. We've been talking about it plenty, but I need someone else. Okay. I will get on it. I promise okay well. We've been busy this week because we have been doing a lot of interviews in a lot of prep for those interviews for this week when we are celebrating the Negro Leagues, we are doing that for a third time today and we are welcoming on another great guest I. Don't WanNa slight. Any other Negro Leagues researchers, but I would say perhaps the Preeminent Negro Leagues researcher and historian an advocate Larry Lester. Who is the CO founder? Founder of the Negro Leagues Museum and really has been involved every step of the way with all of this mutual insurance that have happened surrounding that he grew league, so he will beyond shortly to tell us all about that, and it's been great to learn about all the sneakily accessory, and there's so much more with it i. don't know and would like to know so. We will make an effort to incorporate that into the weeks as well. Yeah, it does not need to be a focus only this week. We are students, baseball history, and this is a very important part of it, so we should. We should all not just united our listeners to you know. If you want to say you know stuff about baseball. You need to know about this baseball, so let's make a point of not having it. Be a once a a once a year once centennial can of deal touted. Yes indeed, so what's going on baseball's present? A. Ben. I'm going to say the following which is I? Don't think it will surprise you or listeners to know that I spend a lot of time I spent a lot of time. Reading manuals related to base for. Red, read the Roebuck the official rule book, and it's supplemental materials many times, and so I always feel I, always fill, but happy when we have an occasion to revisit the rule book. I wish though that we did not have occasion to revisit the CBA on this day. Because the reason is just really a bummer, but I think we do the bummer. CBA, thing first, and then you have a little fun before we we. Had some stuff. Yeah, he sure did so as as you might imagine Ben with the presence of the COVID. Injured list there has been some question about how exactly players placement on that list is going to be reported and announced and our good friend. Lindsay Adler did some work this week to try to eliminate that question for readers after comments from Wolfram, I believe from Brian Cashman, and then there have been other baseball executives managers who have had stuff to say on sort of how clubs going to deal with this, and it seems like the sort of thing that we're going to be left to guess with an uncomfortable amount of precision. And so I guess to set the stage for our listeners who might not be as inclined to say read all three hundred seventy three pages is the collective bargaining agreement as? Those are the most readable documents like read a fair amount of the rulebook looking things up over the years, and it is written often in the most confusing way possible and I would imagine that the which I have not read although I think you and Sam have done that, but there's a lot of legal us in there and to learn the language and. It's not really a page Turner but I guess I'm glad that you turn the pages at least. You Know Sam I think in terms of the the written work on this as as the definitive expert. I imagine we're both really fun at parties. was having parties anymore. What does it matter I think the rule book is the most readable as a non lawyer I. Find it to be the most readable. I definitely fall as as a child of lawyers in the know enough to be dangerous category, so I find the rule book to be the most readable there are other. There's the rule book, and then there's the. The official conduct I don't quite recall the thoroughly to rule books. It's very confusing, but yeah, I think the the official rule book that governs play on the field is the most readable, and then I I think the is probably the least readable. It's not so inscrutable, though that you can't find your way through it or bother any of the lawyers we know you know. Throw Rock and you'll get one to sort of interpret the relevant sections, but thankfully for our purposes this the most relevant section for our discussion is actually I think pretty easy to interpret so the question is, there's this balance that needs to be struck between respecting maintaining player privacy, and then there's like the reality of ailments that key players from being on the field are sort of interesting to reporters into fans and people want to understand. How long a guy's GonNa, be out and so there is a collectively bargained policy around this question and reading from from CBA. For Public Relations Purposes, a club may disclose the following general information about women. Related injuries remember that phrase employment related injuries can be relevant our purposes, a the nature of a player's injury, be the prognosis and the anticipated length of recovery from the injury and see the treatment and surgical procedures undertaken or In, regard to the injury for any other medical condition that prevents player from rendering services to his club, a club disclose only the fact that medical condition is preventing the player from rendering services to the club and the anticipated length of the players absence from the club, so things that fall under the category say non, employment related injuries would be for instance. Kenley Jansen has. Has, a heart condition that has kept tim on the injured list at various points throughout his career, as he has sought treatment and had surgery to remedy that the dodgers were only able to disclose that it was a heart condition. Because Kenley Jansen granted them permission to say what it was and the League and the Union apparently made the determination that placement on the covert. which if we were call does not actually require a positive Kovic test, but can also include proximity to those who have been sick or have had a positive test is a non employment injury. Now I think we could all say. You're only you're increasing your chances of getting covert. All being together mushed together on a ball field regardless of the the social distancing efforts that the clubs are undertaking, so we can fall Kinda look sideways at the idea that this is not an employment injury, but it becomes relevant for our purposes, because we are used to knowing what is wrong with the player. If you go to say, Mitch Hamburgers MLB DOT COM page. You will see that he is on the sixty day injury list, which is really forty five danger less now, but that's not relevant to our conversation here and it is because he has a lower back problem and we know that's what it is. We know lot more about which. Body more than we want to do much more that we WANNA know be well Mitch all. Written to know less about you. We're all rooting no lot less about how you are, but we know that that's listed there. And this became relevant again today, because the phillies put a number of players on the ten date injured list without a specific designation, the Bluejays to a few of them yet right, and and it has since been reported I think because the players must have given hopefully hopefully, the players have given permission to the Phillies to disclose that they had positive. Kobe tests not because. Somebody's hoping somebody engage in a hip violation, but we're going to have this very weird and uncomfortable thing, and it's something that we've been thinking about on the fan. Grab side because if you go, we say why a player is on the injured list. Because that's information that were given right, you know somebody's tweaked a lad or somebody. I know about guys groins I want to. To. Do you know this Guy Needs? Tommy John What have you and it appears that not only will clubs not say that a player has a covert test, but they will obscure that it is the Cova dial that they have gone onto, and we'll just put them on the ten day. Andrew Bliss at least for public reporting purposes as we saw the phillies do today. But we're essentially going to know what the Cova dial is because we don't have a injury associated with that ten day placement, but we will for all of the other guys so I. Don't know the right answer to. This is I think that it would be fine with me if we knew a lot less about players health stuff. That's weird I. Don't know when. Cashew, you don't know what your accountants health history is like that's weird, impersonal thing, and so I think it's. It would be fine with me if we had more of that obscured, but we have to balance the privacy considerations with the fact that I think it will in all likelihood fall on media members to say. Hey, we have a lot of people in baseball sick with Kovic. Should we be based bowling? And the Union and the League? Have said that they're going to disclose the numbers, but obscure the individuals who are tested and found to have covid, and that's fine except that we're all. GonNa really know about it unless everybody at a heart condition at once. Yeah, that was one of Lindsay's concerns I think was. Is this going to allow them to obscure the spread? And how many people have contracted this? Because they want the season to keep going, so they'll just keep it quiet and yeah. Yeah as you noted, buster only tweeted MLB plans public reporting of league-wide data listing the overall tests conducted the number of positive tests and the percentage of positive tests on a periodic basis. No individuals named the period of intake. Screening is ongoing prior to first workouts Friday so in theory than it sounds like we should know how widespread it is, so that kind of takes care of that concern I. Guess if we trust them to report everything accurately, so that's good but i. don't know what the perfect answer is here. Because as he said, there's no way to really hide it without. Without hiding all injury information, which hasn't been the case in baseball and I guess it could be the case. It's the case in other sports. Right in hockey. They just sable lower body, injury or potty. You have no idea, is it? A heart attack is hit a shoulder strain. It doesn't really differentiate and in baseball, obviously for analytical purposes, it's helpful to have that information at times, and just to be able to write about someone and have those details it's. It's handy to have that, but if we didn't have it I guess we would get by and we would get used to. To that and it is sometimes a source of conflict, because teams and manager sometimes don't want to divulge those things and players may not want to, either because it can be competitive disadvantage if they have to say that someone is out for the specific amount of timers, the skies unavailable now where he might be diminished in some way, and so sometimes they'll obscured in some managers. Try to be cagey about it and the beat. Writers get mad at them because they can't report what the injury is exactly and for this year. Maybe it would be better just to give those players. Anonymity just to not kind of out them. Almost inevitably, because everyone else is having their injuries or ailments disclosed, but then maybe that becomes kind of concrete and solidified in. That's what we will always do, and I guess we would get used to it, but that hasn't been the case now and so yeah, if you put someone on the I l. and we don't know the reason than you almost just have to infer that it must be the co, KC, and maybe the players will just usually disclosed that I. Don't know we'll see how many of them do I guess. There is maybe some stigma to that I don't know how much given that everyone seems to. To be doing at these stays, unfortunately contracting cases, it's it's not exactly rare, but still if you don't want that knowledge out there, you shouldn't have to have out there, but just because they will probably get hassled by fans or writers who are asking them if they want to disclose it. Maybe some of them will just be like well. It's not worth the effort and they'll know anyway, so I might as well just tell them yeah I. I have a hard time gauging how much stig mother actually is attached to the diagnosis, but I think that there is I mean there's certainly some I think that people are because the onus has been put on individuals to. Wear a mask and wash your hands, and it seems that our focus as a country has been put on individual people rather than US say competent state response to the spread of a pandemic. I do think that it's reasonable to worried that there will be stigma attached to that diagnosis or an assumption that you were being irresponsible or were in a crowded bar that you know your family members gave it to you, or what have you and often times? That might be true, but it might not be and I understand why players would be hesitant especially for respiratory condition that might affect the way that they are perceived in terms of their long-term sort of competitive capacity, although I suppose teams. No, they had a diagnosis so in that respect I don't know how much matters, but this doesn't strike me as one of those moments where. Where there was you know either sort of concentrated disregard for purposeful I should say disregard for player privacy. I think it's just this is the weird reality of disclosing some, but not all conditions and clearly given that they don't want this to be considered a workplace problem. I don't know that there's any way that they could avoid this nondisclosure disclosure that they were setting up so. I don't know I think the most important thing apart from players. Privacy's being respected is that we are able to have a reliable sense of the scope of the spread and I think that that information is useful sort of down to the team level beyond that I don't need to know individual players, but I think that it is probably useful to us to be able to get a sense of particular geographies that are witnessing spread versus others and teams that might be compromised to the point of needing to stop playing for a little while. So I am concerned. I, think we've talked a lot about the apprehension, we have about this season being played at all and I think that it's probably going to be particularly important for media members to have a sense of just how bad things are getting because we play an important role in holding teams in the League accountable for this kind of a season, you know going forward at all and commencing, also I think it's really important because somebody has to say, excuse me. Yeah Yeah and we wouldn't. WanNa set a precedent of players needing to divulge diseases her other ailments, so if you said well, they have to say they have covid than what does that extend to in the future and how you rope off certain ailments, and it's better price to say non workplace related, even if it is kind of workplace related in this case, still maybe for the best, and it's just one of those things that's it's GonNa. Be a strange kind of uncomfortable season in a lot of ways, and this is one of those ways. Yeah, we talk a lot about athletes being hyper, competitive and sometimes. Sometimes being their own worst enemy in terms of preserving their long term health in order to accomplish short-term sort of team objectives, and I think that that applies to baseball writ large, also, where in order to preserve the health and safety of players and non player personnel, and the families of everyone associated with those folks, the media might need to play the role of of a stern, but being manager, and say no. You can't pigeon other inning, and that's uncomfortable spot for us to be in there a lot of ways in which the media will need to be very cleared with itself and understand its own. Interests and make sure that those are sort of dictating the way that they report these numbers, but we really need to be able to say in one boy late. You gotTA. We gotta shut. It down folks. So when we had our epidemiologist guests Zach on to talk about how long a player might be on the Covid I, L if they are infected and test positive. He speculated that it might be a couple of weeks. At least it sounds like it might be even longer I I saw a tweet by the mets beat writer Anthony Tacoma, said if a mets player test. Test Positive for Covid nineteen mets manager Luiz Rojo said it will likely require a minimum three-week ramp up for that player to return to active duty. Essentially a positive test would cost the player one third of the regular season. Even if he recovers quickly, which Gosh, if that's happening a lot, I mean even aside from the obvious health concerns that we have discussed a lot. Lot. There's also the perception of the season as reflecting talent or accomplishment in any real way, and you can't get around the sixty game season and small samples inherent than that, but if you have significant percentages of certain rosters, disappearing for a third of the season, and you get great players involved in that, and if it's widespread, or if it's concentrated in certain teams, there's. There's kind of a cluster with a certain team I. Just don't know that you could a even really care about the outcome of the season when the outcome of those players health is in question, but just also if you're missing large swath, certain teams for that percentage of the season, because of this thing that just strikes and can happen to anyone at any time. I just don't know that it would even seem like a a competitive campaign or an endeavour worth doing so we've talked about what it would take for MLB to call this thing off if it does get started and I still don't really know, but we hopefully will not find out because hopefully there won't be any occasion to do that, but if there is a wonder whether those questions will be asked, and how loudly they will be asked yeah, I think it especially matters for individual players of when. When in the course of a season they become sick if they do you know we already have this very uncertain situation with you know with pitchers in particular. How much they've been throwing the kind of program. They've been observing in during the layoff. You know if a guy is just trying to come back and he's starting to ramp up and then he gets sick and he needs to be away from the team so that he can quarantine. Like what kind of season is that guy? GonNa have. That's that concern exists for everyone, and obviously like how how well they're able to throw a baseball on how many innings are able to pitches very inconsequential in comparison to the long term health of that player, but since we're doing this thing, I think that you know it is. It just underscores how many things have to go right? How many days in a row in how many moments for this entire experiment to be at all? I was GONNA say sea worthy I don't know if that sword I wanNA use maybe an thinking about jaws, because it's the fourth of July and that's when I think about that movie and also Gosh. Is it a particular kind of re? Our. Current situation, but yeah, I just think that it. It is a reminder of all the tiny things that everyone has to right every single day for this to be remotely feasible and I hope that they can. The players clearly want to play and I. Definitely you know I want everyone to remain healthy and whole, but I feel very nervous about an unsure about how viable that's GonNa. End Up being over the course of even just the summer camp brought to you by camping world again I will say Ari I would never. And and then the sixty game, season and postseason so. It's GonNa, be tents. We're GONNA. Feel nervous every single day, which is great because I was looking for another excuse. Well, maybe you said see where the because you're thinking about nautical language. Party. PODCAST. You're just a real pro. segue expert. So we were planning to talk about a couple of Scott Boris metaphors, so Scott Boris was on a podcast this week. It was podcast on what you have I think brilliantly labeled the bad chair sports site and we did not listen to this podcast because it was on the edge chair sport site, but one of our listeners Jason thoughtfully transcribed a couple of the comments that Scott Boris. Boris made and sent them to us. And as expected, he delivered some very Boris esque language during the course of this interview in here, the highlights according to Jason, so he started out by saying. Negotiations are often like commuter trains. There's many starts and stops before you get to the final destination. Okay, it's pretty standard. Okay, but like. Isn't that true of every train isn't a true. Trains. Stop Trades I suppose. But most trains stop and I don't know that this really illuminates much. We all know what negotiations are like. We live through months of them starting and stopping, so we get it, but okay. Commuter trains find makes sense, so here's where it gets a little stranger so here. He's talking Jason says about draft situation, the effect of the pandemic on the future of the minor leaguers beyond this year and Boris said it's kind of like when you have tulips, you only have a few bulbs, but on the other hand you've got the earth. You've got the fertilizer. You've got the water. Water. You've got the Sun. You have all these components, so it sounds like he's working with free agency is the vase of championships sounds like he is extending the flowers and vase language to player development now so now this is actually consistent right because in his previous statement. About how free agency is the vase of championships, the core the homegrown players he said were the flowers so here he sings essentially the same thing. I guess that it's like when you have tulips. You have a few bulbs, but you've got the earth, the fertilizer the water, the Sun all these components. So Lake and so some of this is definitely that we are lacking the context of what came around this bs again. We do not participate in content from the the badgers sports, but nothing about this feel specific to twenty twenty. Rate like nothing about that. That metaphor for the draft works in any year. Prophecy think the tulips can't be. You can't have a lot of tulips, does he? Is he under the impression because like so I'm from I'm from the North West in in Washington. The every year, the Skagit Valley has a tulip festival, and you have fields and fields and fields of tubes. The only thing I know about tulips in terms of them, being kind of personality is willing. bobst of can be persnickety because they can rotten, it can be bad. Tulips and I think daffodils are bad for each other like they. They don't fight because their flowers, but they I think they extract the same stuff from the soil, and so they tend to die of their planted in close proximity to one another, but you can have a bunch of tulips like there's nothing about this, you know. I asked our listener. Jason Emeco to try to clarify what Borsa saying. Which of course is an impossible task because no one could ever do that, but I asked him if there was any other context and Jason says I think the Tulip line was in regard to the importance of insularity players who will never advance to the big leagues to the development of the few select guys who do so. He was saying. The minor leagues are about a system that develops. Develops major leaguers, but they're not explicitly about big leaguers in. It's important that we maintain those systems rather than downscale so I think he's saying that you need the other players the other, so they are like the soil and all. Yeah, so I think the tulips are the the future big leaguers top prospects, maybe and then the other guys, the guys who may be either teams are getting contracted, or they're getting released their the conditions that you need for those. Two flower I mean okay. That's true. That's the most you can ever really say about one of these boys metaphors. It's like I. Mean Okay. Okay? Okay. I guess all right I. Mean I I like the idea that that we can acknowledge that draftees you know are even if they are not themselves to become big leaguers are vitally important to the future development of big leakers that strikes me as a good thing to say out loud a bunch because if you do if you do that, then you look around, and you say while just because they don't develop into a beautiful flower themselves they allow the. The beautiful flower to do so in that beautiful flower has a lot of value to the to the field in which she grows, and so we probably should pay the manure to right. That's very important, because without the fertilizer and you know the soil and all the and the water. You can't get the beautiful flower and so gotta pay the water. It's important to do because otherwise you don't get your beautiful flower, so I'm I'm on board. You know like so many of skop horses quotes. The sentiment is sentiment I agree with, but boy. Does he make your work? which is the opposite of the point of making a metaphor? It's supposed to clarify something or eliminate something and that we spend many minutes talking about what exactly did he mean here? But there is a third one we're. Maybe it's a combination of two here, so he was talking about the sixty game season, and he said it's really about the coffee, not about the cup, so I think he is saying that it's about the baseball you do play not the container in which that baseball appears, so it's not about the structure of the season. It's about the Games. The action and Jason says that he went on to say. Say or preceded the Coffee Cup comment, saying the performance levels within a boundary basically what everyone had to deal with, and so to suggest that someone does it longer in the normal environment than it does in the environment that we're in the truth of the matter is you're not negotiating normal. You're negotiating the environment where within so he was saying you know. Don't blame the players or teams for sixty game seasons. It's not their fault that it's small sample, and that you should judge their value differently based on the length of the season so all right sure still think that Scott Boris needs some sample size understanding help. Yeah continues to be. This is like when he was like framing doesn't matter, and then you looked at his roster and I'm like Oh. You don't rep any of the good framers ways. Yeah will be curious to see if some of his clients have great sample seasons until say well can't hold it against them that it was Eric's games because it's about the coffee. Cup Which? What if other of his clients have really lousy seasons will. He tried to say well. It was healthy sixty games. You know. It's about the cup of coffee. That's what I've always said. We should well I. Mean I'm reticent to have anyone on the public side whose work I like and respect. Take it behind behind the wall of either a team or an agency. Because then we lose it, but I wonder we should anonymously we could do it because then. It won't be our work right. We should send him some of the. The work that that Russel as dawn on one particular step stabilize, and then then we'll know we'll we can. Then he can say well. You know this guy. He is just a small sample as fluky He was fine, but this guy you know hit the thing he was doing that. That's skill stable very early and then, and then we'll get to remind everyone what that really means because Scott Boris will. Use It wrong. Just like I kinda a little loosey Goosey with it, and then it'll, and then it'll be an educational moment for all of us, yeah! Like like you know it'll be the soil? The beautiful flower of our understand. So what goes with coffee in the morning coffee? If you're a coffee drinker, you need to wash something down with that coffee. Maybe breakfast and Scott Boras has thoughts on breakfast, too. So asked about the potential for statistical aberrations in this small sample season, he said. No, it's like breakfast. There's times you can have a casual one, and you can have bacon eggs, pastries, coffee, juice, berries full day, and then there's the day when you put the toast in the toaster. Grab it. Get the coffee and run out the door. The reality of it is it's breakfast. Okay Couple of things here first of all. What Scott Boris is describing as casual breakfast Mary much not casual, though that's a full production. That's full production I don't know if Scott. Boras has domestic help I'M GONNA. Speculate that he does because he's done quite well for himself by helping his clients do quite well for themselves, so his understanding casual might be very different from mine or yours or really anyone who does not have a staff I. Don't know if he has a staff. Maybe he doesn't have a staff at this moment. Because perhaps there are quarantining with him so. We're we're just speculating wildly about his domestic situation, but this is not a casual breakfast, which is interesting, because at the end of the quote, he seems to know that by saying full day. Right. Yeah also there's the day you put. Dosen the toaster grab it. Get coffee and run out the door. That's relatable as the person who used to go to office. There were days when I would do that, but I don't think that he really knows. What casual is I do support his idea that anything you eat in the morning is breakfast because I think that we are overly prescriptive about breakfast food. Man Mole wrote a really good piece at the. Atlantic. About this it whatever you want for breakfast. It's all pretend to see when sustaining to you I. Wonder if Scott has read that article, but mostly I. Don't think he knows what casual means. So I guess what he's saying. Here is sort of the same sentiment. Is the coffee nuts but just? Get, big breakfasts all breakfast. In the morning that sustains you for all, so you get a four hundred hitter well, that's the breakfast we got. This season I don't know sometimes you get a full season. Sometimes you don't. It's all the wishes and sustaining I guess is his point. That's part of just chose for breakfast. Is that allows you to do one of the best things in the world which is eat lunch at ten thirty in the morning, your? Faith in ten thirty lunch by the way I suppose I should say I have not confirmed that. These are authentic because again we have. Added podcast, so look Jason is fabricating these quotes in his pranking us here with made up. I Salute! Say. You came up with convincing ones. And, if and if these are in fact, authentic Scott Boris quotes then I say to him a thank you for your service and transcribing them. Yes, that, too. All right well, we will take a quick break now, and we'll be back with Lester and I should mention that. When we come back next week, we will be resuming our team preview podcasts which you may remember. We were previewing the twenty twenty season a few months ago because we thought there was going to be one a lot sooner than there was, and we were close to the end we had four episodes and eight teams left to go, and were just going to pick up where we left off and cross off. Those unchecked boxes and I think a lot has changed. Obviously since we previewed the other team, so you could justify previewing every team again. Probably, but we're not GONNA do that. We don't have time to do that, but we will finish and will say that just by virtue of kind of how the season shook out. I think that some of the ones that we were. We were in the greatest need to revise. We just happened to not have done yet. I think that's true. Mostly I mean. We have not yet previewed the Yankees. So, we have that done the best teams in the worst teams basically. And so, that's you know that that's fun and we haven't done the mariners we talk about all the prospects that are in their player pool via. We're not redoing. All of them were very sorry, but we're also very tired. You can just prorate the guests predictions I the number of wins. They would have full season over sixty games, which is maybe doesn't really make sense. Because maybe certain teams would do better over the sixty game season, but you know what it's about the Coffee Cup so. Dancer so we'll do a couple of those preview episodes in each of the next two weeks, and in theory that takes us up to the week of opening day pandemic permitting. That's the schedule so for now we will be back in just a moment to talk to Larry Lester about unearthing weeks thought. Retire, you? The, Heavy of hand streaming hot. Replacement. Face the other who makes it with down from the basement we. We the job. Take up the whole ten. When we. Come back over piano elevate. You take home to Negro League. Baseball well, we are really pleased to be joined by Lazy. Lester, whose resume would take a really long time to read, but for now suffice it to say that he is the chairman of Savers Negro Leaks Committee, and a recipient of sabres about David's and Henry. Chadwick words the author or CO author of several books, and he has played an integral role in several meeker leaks initiatives that we are about to discuss so Larry Welcome. Thank. Being in make. On your show, appreciate it, so what was the state of knowledge of and interest in the Niko Leagues when you began to get involved in documenting and celebrating its history decades ago? Basically grew up. In Negro League environment. went to school with Satchel pages kids. At School. And I grew up near the O. Ballpark on Kansas City on twenty second in Brooklyn and in the process of growing up in an all black neighborhood, going to all Black Church and All Black School who's always asked the question, the black ballplayers and The residents in the neighborhood would tell me. They played in the Negro. Leagues and I'm like what is that? And so I started to. Get, curious and wanted to know more. And the men would tell me these great stories. About Coupon, Bill and Satchel page. And Josh Gibson and others, and by the way on the next block is a former Negro League player. Not Go over and talk to him and he just. Be Very humble, and so it was part of my maturation process didn't really think a lot of it. Other than we were segregated at the time America was segregated until I went off to college in. Discovered Robert Peterson's book Only the ball is white. And suddenly all these stories that these men were telling me appeared to be true like wow, that's. How this is just Oh, me and talking budget stuff crap, you know. Like this is cool stuff, so we just when I really started jump starting my career and studying the Negro leak. And the great wonderful history and legacy that they have left with us today so. Now I know you saw Satchel page pitch? Because I've read that? When you were sixteen, you attended his last appearance in the major leagues when he pitched three innings for the Kansas City as as a fifty eight year old in nineteen, sixty five three shutout innings of course, according to that box score fewer than ninety three hundred fans in attendance for that game, and you're one of them, but did you ever meet Satchel or get to talk to him? When you were growing up in that neighborhood, no I mean I had a lot of classes with Pam. I'll play basketball with Robert is son, but Sacha was never at home he was. Always on the road. Even in the winter you know he played in South America, and so I I never met him. In never felt like well, you know I miss out on something because you know at me. You Know Dad call home, but they didn't seem very much. You know, but. Unfortunately. I never met him Other on our players I did along the way, but. You mentioned only the ball was why I'm curious. What impact that book had on rekindling broader interest in the Negro Leagues, and then what some of the other developments were that led to that renewed interest and attention for the League as time went on, after the publication of that book will make only. The ball was white by Robert Peterson. Made everything real. He had actual game accounts. He had interviewed these ball players across the country. He had a statistics in the back of the book. There's a register. Of every ball player he could find is probably roughly three thousand ballplayers. For the first time folklore became fact in many of my colleagues credit. That book would jump starting their interest in baseball. You were the CO founder of the Negro Leagues. Baseball Museum. We spoke to Kendrick the current president earlier this week. How did the museum come to be? And what was your role in it? Well I have a upper classmate by the name of Harsh Peterson. He was the executive director of the Black Archive in mid America and he called me one day and asked me to meet with him. buckle Neil in the mayor of Kansas. City Mayor Richard Berkeley at the time for media so I walk in. I have no idea what this meeting's about. And, Peterson has this great idea to have a jazz in baseball museum in the historic eighteenth and vine. And he says Larry I can do to jazz if you can do the baseball. In new my love for baseball from high school, I got this. I got that part so. WHO NEEDED TO MIRROR THERE? Because there was a twenty million dollar bond proposal on the table, high over that money was just for brick and mortar. No money was available for administrative calls or development program development, and so on. So, what's the well? You know I got this corporate experience. I can write a business plan I can develop a institutional membership plan and we're off and running. I developed a plan, and by that time had interviewed a bunch of ball players, and they'd given me tons and hundreds of pitches because nobody cares about him, except you just take him, I'm like I'm not gonNA. Take on copies or no. Just take him so. I have plenty of photographs I think date I got about sixteen thousand photographs. It's not alive when you compare it to National Baseball Hall of Famer Cooperstown hasn't maybe three hundred thousand, but for me is a lot, so I was able to develop the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum. Static exhibit would photographs I. wrote all the captions and worked out a pretty good. It has not. Very much since I left in nineteen, Ninety five and But as you know, exhibits need to be more dynamic instead of static, they need to be more interactive now with the younger generation, so they need. They need enough upgrade, but that's how we got the museum started. Not My idea, it was harsh petersons. Who Tragically died into drowning accident in nineteen, ninety three. So, he never got to see. The two museums opened up. In Nineteen, Ninety Five, you mentioned the photographs in the early days of the museum you helped to choir. Artifacts of all kinds longing, page and Oscar Charleston, Josh Gibson and Archie where in brewer, and so many others apart from family members volunteering those. What did that process entail of us? Bringing together all of these important remnants of the Negro Leagues well. We backup point step Megan I had built a relationship. A report mini other families. Before the museum was. An idea on always in them Christmas cards. Birthday cards had a list of maybe two hundred ball players that I would call every now, and then to check upon and so when I walk into their homes because we gotTa Museum. Would you like to donate? Like oh! Yes, I'm take whatever you need Larry just gotTa here. It! Was Not a CEO job. I'm not a salesperson. ME. When? I went to Kufa bill's house, really really early in the process. He offered me a ton of stuff which I refused because. We didn't have a museum at the time. His home was just field with single signed baseballs by Josh Gibson Satchel page and Oak Crutchfield and Judge Wilson Oh my goodness. He had trophies from his nineteen forty two world series. Championship with the homestead grays and. He was really like this. Take this stuff out of here. Guess Worth It's worth a lot of money I don't care. I'm old. You know. But I I never I never took anything out of that house, but many a chance of your question, Mag many the families were very receptive to uh. Donating items through the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum. One of the challenges of writing about the Negro Leagues used to be that it was much harder to save. How well players performed on the field because the statistical record was so incomplete, but now we have a much better idea that in large part because of the work of researchers and historians like you and you helped oversee the creation of extensive statistical database and sites like seam heads now put those stats at researchers, fingertips, and I know that was a massive effort that you helped overseas. So how did you go about finding and preserving those stats? And how has the digitization of newspapers aided that ongoing effort and how much more needs to be done? Or that was a long road. Our refuse to accept the notion that. The black teams did not keep statistics this satistics world available. In black weekly newspapers and I was been. Every evening over the next twenty twenty twenty five years of scanning microfilm. And making copies of box scores. The problem with the Negro Leagues. Resurge is many of the road. Games were not reported in the hometown newspapers, so if the monarch. City monarchs played in Chicago where I had to access the Chicago defender. To get a four game account of that game. They normally pay five game series, and then when they went to another city Philadelphia had to go to the Philadelphia, Tribune. So in the process. I probably had roughly thirteen to fourteen thousand box scores from nineteen twenty. Up through, nineteen, forty, eight or nine, hundred and forty, nine hundred, the problem was. How do how do I compile the stats? Eastern newspapers sometimes did not have at-bats, so I had to work up a formula to back into at-bats. RBI's and sometimes they would not list walk so I had to recreate the lineup every game and to be almost recreated. Based on the information available. At that point because my it experience, I developed a database. wrote the code and and database for manual intervention. And now I can kick out probably more than two hundred canned reports. I mean I can tell you. What really the devil will hit on Sunday against left handed batters. Home Grass But I have not been a have not had the time to validate all the Games. And what I mean by that is if a team is ten hits stemming the pictures gave up ten hits, and sometimes the balances don't check. That out. Side of the ledger him on. I had to go back through and. Invalidate. Hits on both sides runs on both sides. And sometimes there's airs printed airs in the database When we get the grant proposal, we reached out to roughly thirty thirty five researchers. In cities across the country, because some times of teens would play in small cities that we did not have access to their newspapers. and. That's when Gary Ashley'll stepped up. came up big time contributor. Seem! His is the most robust. Statistical database on the planet. Thanks to heal. And I continue to send him box scores and printouts from my database, so he could upload it to the website 'cause. That's how people do business today. But Gary Ash welders I consider my twin statistically speaking. someone who I've never met, but he he's incredible. You know what he does. He's Super Superman, and do you have any estimate of the completeness right now or I guess it varies by the year, and maybe the team, but how much more is there to do, and has it gotten easier to find things now that there are more digital archives and more newspapers that are easily accessible? Oh, definitely more papers of continue to come online and various database archives. Gary and I plan to finish probably in the next. Say Twelve to eighteen months. been a long journey, it can be done. It's just one game can take an hour to You know correct and validate. And so you could be running along really smoothly this. Check this. Check this checks and then one game just on now we got. This game is the world series and we got three different newspapers with three different accounts, which one is right? We're off about one run on hit and that takes. It takes some time so. I hate to say. Twelve to eighteen months. And then we find you know another ten games. It happens. Megan being in the nineteen twenties, game accounts were so complete. Oh, they were incredibly detailed. Go into the Great Depression. In nineteen, thirty newspapers had scant coverage is. Sometimes sometimes, did not cover a game at all. We can go into the forties, and they got complete coverage again, so the nineteen thirties or just a nightmare to research. Because of the economic conditions of the country. But, hopefully we get something out to the public. In into years. He tells about the role that writers like Wendell, Smith and Sam Lacey and Lester Rodney played in chronicling the Negro Leagues and also advocating for Integration. That is the beauty of a researching like baseball. Make Window Smith. Lester Rodney or cons to me. Actually spent a great deal of time in San Lacey's apartment talking to him. Those men Oh I put on my Mount Rush- More of Negro League writers. They mean everything to me. they fought the good fight best Lester Rodney for a Communist newspaper were communist meant something different back in the forties, but he he was a great influence of mine I met him the Jackie Robinson, conference and Long Island University in Nineteen Ninety seven. life-changing had. With him and what he had to go through. Dealing with death, threats and Etc.. Window Smith data early. Never, met him I met his widow Owen Nola in Chicago spending time in her apartment. what an incredible loving husband he was! An Sam lacy was just all about doing what is right. My favorite Sam lacy quote is. Trying to think he phrased it when the constitution says, all men are created equal. He always say well. Some people were created more equal than others. So those in. Inspire me daily, and in two thousand six, you served on the Special Negro Leagues Committee for the Hall of fame, which led to seventeen figures from the Negro. Leagues, getting -ducted that must have been quite an undertaking to I know you had already been doing the research for several years at that point. But how did you help? Narrow down and ultimately select those candidates. See if I can remember we had A. Think a list of ninety three. It was a waiting lists votes five, four, three, two, one from that list. We had a five man team met in Florida thing Miami Florida, and we not nanny three lists of names down to thirty, nine, thirty nine. Names went into the final ballot for the twelve team committee to vote on. I think it was by three fourths majority to get into the hall of fame, and as you said seventeen players, managers and executives made the cut. I was shocked express. I would've been happy with a half, a dozen or a dozen, but seventeen was. Incredible. Will deserve, and it was one a year getting inducted for quite a while, and was had frustrating to see the pace so slow. Just kind of a trickle has opposed to all at once like two thousand six. You have no idea. Oh, my goodness, we we tried. We found only got our game strategy together. We would take a ball player and we did a letter writing campaign back in those days. And not everybody in my committee everybody in my group. Right in support of the same ballplayer, and we were sending letters to everybody on the Veterans Committee and We would get A in, so I'll probably knew before anybody in the country. WHO THE NEXT YEAR! Leaguer is going to be because we. We had a concentrated letter campaign to put. Healing Smith in. Beyond Day in bullet Rogan. All those ballplayers in because before that we were fighting are high energies, and so we would dissuade this year. We're GONNA. Get Him in and we did it we did. We've developed business models and scenarios and we. We're quotes from all the. White Ball players who have played against such a ballplayer and. We've added a ball. The documents and everybody's sent him in and. They had to put them in. This too much information! How did you decide which players to prioritize? Did you go by players who were still alive who you wanted to get recognized while they could still see it, or did you give preference to players in order of how great they were, and how deserving you thought they were there were they were prioritized by if they were living. Here that's one reason why Leon Day went in probably earlier. Most of them have been deceased, but. I think Leon Day was the exception. It was all good all good. You've worked with so many researchers and different institutions that are devoted to baseball history broadly in have been focused on trying to through fill out the details of the historical record when it comes to the Negro Leagues. I'm curious if you've noticed any shifts in the focus of that research over time whether it's been trying to refill in the details of individual biographies or the Statistical Record, or perhaps, the the histories and traditions of particular teams has there been a noticeable sort of shifting focus over time, or is everyone still just trying to do justice to the play of these guys on the field in their lives off it? We'll make I've seen somewhat of a chef Jose to years ago. Most of the Negro Leagues Most of the Negro League history was oral history. They would interview a ball player and they would. Capture that interview and printed in a book which is fine, people would read these books and say wow, this is interesting now I wanNA know more. Know. He threw a no hitter win. Right can you prove it well? They reach out to me and yes, here's the box score. Here's the game account. and. They had nine thousand people in the stands that day and Yankee Stadium. So it it helped. The history game more more minimum as in anything devolved. People wanted to know more everybody. Get hungrier like. Who who is this guy never heard of him. Ou Was Hilton Smith. For Manchester Page you know. What was bullet Rogan I mean he was Black Babe Ruth. He you know played outfield and pitched every fourth day. Embedded cleanup. So who wrote him Yes. Let me, tell you about. It just created more energy, more excitement and more interest in this chapter of baseball. History? Let's a good segue to our next question. And we asked this of Bob Kendrick when we spoke to him earlier this week. Are there any particular players? You have a soft spot for who you wish got greater. Recognition and Bob talked about Martin to Higo. But you know players who don't have the name recognition of Satchel Pager Trash Gibson or cool. Papa, Bell but you think should be known to everyone. well as I mentioned earlier I'm very happy very satisfied that seventeen players managers, managers and executives got into the baseball hall of fame. I was disappointed that cannonball Dick Redding did not get the and great ball player great pitcher. Pitch mostly before nineteen. Twenty And, so that was before the League and therefore this Games. Are Hard to find. Because he pitched for independent teams, but based on my research, and the man was just awesome. I've found. He pitched four double headers in his career. And won I think. Six of the eight games. I mean the man was machine pitch first and second game of a double header and. He was the equivalent enough smokey Joe. Williams who is in the hall of fame. They were considered the top pitchers of the period, but can degrade Dick Redding died at an early age in a mental institution and based on some research. He was illiterate. and. Hurt his recognition in baseball history, but his pitching record is outstanding. I think he needs to be in the hall of fame And that's just that's just my. That's my vote. You've held to campaign for pensions for former Negro. League players and also helped to raise money to purchase headstones to place on players unmarked graves. What can you tell us about those efforts? Pitching effort was very difficult. Many of the ball players. When they retired. Say at the age of Thirty, eight, thirty, nine or forty. They had no meaningful skills. I mean James Cool Papa. Bear Security Guard for the rest of his life, and so they had no pension and Major League baseball. They don't deserve a pitching. They never played in major leagues. And so I flew to new. York I met with their lawyers being my fist on the table. And I, said the Negro Leagues were created. From the by and Major League baseball if you had allowed them to play. It would never been a Negro League. There are product. Racism in this country. So I think you owed them pitching. And this is the article that I have ready for the Washington Post. And The New York Times. Showing how? Ya No. Major League Baseball has benefited from the Negro Leagues Because Memorabilia was starting to. Get Out and Major League Baseball was had an pearl campaign. And I said you're benefiting from these men I said basically you're pipping these players. That was the worst actually used. And they whispered each other, and they said well we. Do something if they play at least four years in the Negro Leagues s get them a pension. Past. WHAT ARE WE'RE GONNA? Do about the royalties? There's going to be pro bono. Fifty percents of the Jackie. Robinson Foundation think thirty percent to the Negro. Leagues Baseball Museum and twenty percent to the players. So now they get A. Royalty check. From, the sale of a Pearl, and they get a pitch and check for ten thousand dollars every year. Of course that. Created A lot of animosity. That's okay. You know is Reggie Jackson said people don't move. Nobody's so. I! I got booed and criticize, but it didn't bother me. I was not knowing the money came to me. It all came to the ball players and everybody who played for or more years in the Negro, Leagues Got Penchant for Major League Baseball, ten thousand dollars a year. My job was to provide documentation with the box scores that showed that they played four years or more. The grave market project was an eye of Dr Jeremy Crock. Outta of your a Illinois's an anesthesiologist. Great Guy he called me one day and. Asked me. About raising money. For an unmarked grave I'm like. No! I don't think that's going to work. Out The WHO cares I mean, do you do? And we shared stories how we go to family gravesites Memorial Day than plant flowers. My wife and I. We've done that for years I've said I'm on the same page which Jeremy but who's going to give us money. Where headstone and he said well, I got I did this were Jimmie. Crutchfield grew up his. Who grew up in his hometown of Ardmore Missouri I got permission from the Family Julia was still living Jimmy's widow and Mike Okay I'm least try I mean. And so I put it in the newsletter and start rolling in and I'm like. Wow, this works. But he had the idear and and the game plan and. I just had to reach out to my base of Saber members roughly six hundred. Members in the Negro Leagues Research Committee System Group. Email money start rolling in and then next thing you know he's on the New York. Front page New York Times or is. It SPN little segment owning. I'm like this. This is great. This is stuff. That is great. And you mentioned the memorabilia and the royalty from those sales, and in order to sell apparel or items. You had to figure out what it looked like so it could be recreated, and I'm sure it wasn't just lying around well preserved somewhere, and of course you only had black and white photos. So how did you track down those details so that these things could be reproduced and sold in that there could be proceeds from that. Used to processes. I would call ballplayers up and I would ask them. What was the color of uniform that you were nineteen forty four? Like what? And some new some of them did not. And so I A lot of phone calls a lot of phone calls and a notebook and looked at photographs, and I did team by team year-by-year analysis based on interviews. And then I'm GonNa go to the newspapers. And some newspapers were great. They were say the same American giants marched out on the field in their new uniforms for opening day. Bates colored. Red Trim Letters. In bold flu! Like. WHOA, they've already. Eureka. Like. Doesn't get any better than this it's. So you get lucky sometimes. So I started looking at may was basically opening day Negro Leagues Not April like it is now because it comes with the weather, so I look at. Newspapers doing the month of May and see if I could find the entry of. Players in their new uniform and track 'em year-by-year pretty soon I had a whole notebook of every team for every year and the color scheme and everything and. Sent it off to the manufacturers like American needle Wilson's spouting, and they would make uniforms and make a lot of money. So through your efforts, efforts in scholarships of so many other baseball, researchers and historians. A Lot more about the Negro Leagues Negro League players now than we did. in seventies will continue to know Morris. This research proliferates, but I'm curious. What some of the unanswered questions are that? You're still keen to explore in your own research. Answer, the question has A. is there a game whose box score just? Needles you when you got better every night that you wish you could find. Is there some detail of postseason or players life that you wish you could just fill in and satisfy, I don't know if this is the sort of thing that keeps historians up at night, but if there's one fact that you wish you could know with certainty. There are a few games make. From the nineteen forty eight world. that. We have still not found the full box score. Sometimes they would play in the small town. Your tastes me to know in that. We have not been able to fan that one or two games. In nineteen, thirty, eight Josh Gibson hit four home runs, hit a ball game and ZANU. How one of the researchers with their in person? In fact all three newspapers from that hometown? The all validated there just keeps and hit four home runs in their game, but. There's no box score. So I cannot put it into the database with Gary Ashfield because I need to. Balance The box score. I need to have four hits. Give up by a pitcher. For the four home runs that he hit. And so that's not a part of the totals. that. Your tastes me to no end. I mean. We, do the all time career home run record. Josh Gibson is going to be four home runs shy so. We can do is make a footnote. In the process of putting together satistics database all so need to have the bag graphical information when the player was born when he passed away. Of course, we do the cemetery for obvious reasons. And sometimes, about pair with common name is very hard to. Locate that information some obituaries and never printed. And if they are there in the black newspapers and sometimes. ballplayers played under an assumed name, so we have a lot of players that are missing biographical data that keeps me up at night I. Have Some great researches out there who know how to use ancestry, dot, com, family, tree, dot, Org, and Genealogy Bank and. Every day there's a new discovery coming across my desk, so we're we still filling in those blanks it's. It's fun, but at the same time is like. Yeah. Well, thanks to your work in the work of so many others, a lot of these players have been brought to life in a way that they couldn't have been otherwise than we can read about them, and we can look up their stats, and we can know their names, but to you they are more real than to most people because you have had such friendships and relationships with so many of the surviving players and I know that you still do and I wonder which players you have gotten the closest to over the years or or what it has meant to you to have that network of players in your life. Well I would say the Rogan's family feel see them around the city. I was very close with coupons. Bail sure would brewery out of Chicago. We go to ball games together and NAP. Comey was another ballplayer that I like there are a lot of lesser known ballplayers. That I've become. Close with really loved Ballplayer by name of saw Davis for the Birmingham. Blackburn's and we would talk late at night, and you know I mean historic called me one time late at night and let me know that you know. My father just passed away and I'm looking at all these letters that you have written him over the years and I just wanted you to know what they meant to him and so those. Are Moments that. I know I'm doing the right thing I. Mean I remember one time. Tony, stone one of five female athletes in the Negro Leagues. She called me on Christmas Day since she was lonely and wanted to talk so. I'm here for you Tony. What's on your mind? We talk hit great list. About her career. She told me some great stories. And so if it's a personal journey for me, I love what I do. I'm embarrassed to take money for sometimes but. Not a great story so with great families. The only downside is if I interviewed three ballplayers the same day. I would have to eat everyone's house coast. Their wives would feed me. When I CanNot eat anymore. You know. We so glad you're here. Nobody's ever heard of my husband and you're going to write about him, so please have another piece of I. The only downside. Say No. So, this year was supposed to see the return of the. Jerry Malloy Negro. Conference which sabre puts on says is the only symposium dedicated exclusively to the examination in promotion of black baseball history, in addition to presenting researching the conference also helps to raise funds for the grave, Marker, project and award scholarships to High School Seniors and Has An annual contest, and unfortunately like so much else. In Twenty Twenty, the conference had to be postponed due to the pandemic, but I wondered if you could tell our listeners about it, we have many safer members among our listenership who? Might Not know about this conference, but be interested in attending twenty twenty one, and also what they can do to learn more about the Negro Leagues through Sabres Work while they wait for the conference and twenty twenty one to come come around well, the jury Loy Nikolay Conferences and opportunity for people to present their papers on a on a ballplayer who may not be an all of fame or Team that they found playing around nineteen, fifteen is an opportunity for. To expand the knowledge base. We have people from all over the country. Come to conference. We move it around every year. On twenty twenty one, it will be in Birmingham. We already have a contract sometime in July. I tried to invite say four ball players. We have a player panel where I interviewed the ball players. Sometimes, we have an Arthur's panel because everybody's writing a book about the Negro leaks now. We go to a ball game and. Maybe have one of the Negro Leaguers throughout the first pitch. It's a fun fun event. I, mean people come from Canada and? Every corner of the United States? If you want to learn more about the Negro Leagues? That's the place to be is just an opportunity to fill that gap. You have filled so many gaffes over the years, and we're grateful for that, and we will link to where people can find your work in some of the resources you mentioned. Your website is Larry Lester forty two dot com, and we thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us today. Well, thank you for the opportunity. Appreciate it. Batter up. All right thanks to Larry and to all of our guests this week. I, hope you enjoyed this podcast programming I have a few follow ups here, I. If you're interested in learning more doing your own research into the Negro Leagues, I will link to a very helpful page. That Sabre has called researching the Negro Leagues that has links to many of the databases and places where you can get this information, check the show page at Fan Graphs for this episode or the episode summary in your podcast. APP also please do check out. These seem heads. Negro Leagues Database. It's really well done there. There are some fascinating stats on there and there some fascinating explanations of how those stats are calculated and displayed especially the advance stats as noted on a previous episode friend of the show. Dan Hirsch has done a lot of work on the back end there and just reading from a post on the front page that was published earlier this year called Normalizing Negro League statistics that gives you some sense of the difficulty here. It's talking about park factors here. It says the reason. Simple Park calculations work for normalization is that there's an underlying assumption that except for home parks players within a league. League I'll face almost identical conditions under which their teams perform. Those conditions include playing the same number of games as all other teams playing schedules with close to the same difficulty, playing an equal number of home in away games, and not playing any neutral site games and playing most or all home games in the same park for the Negro Leagues Those assumed conditions all fall apart not just for the pre league, nineteen hundred to nineteen nineteen era, but even after former leagues formed following conditions still prevailed in the Negro Leagues teams played varying numbers of total games. Teams play differing numbers of games. Games against other league teams teams played an unbalanced number of home and away games teams played in multiple neutral parks. So you get some sense of the challenges, they're even aside from the challenge of finding those box scores, and that data in the first place, and it goes through some of the steps that they use to kind of correct for those obstacles, so I will link to that too I will also linked to a few pieces by one of our guests from last week, Shuki a Taylor, who has written extensively about the Negro Leagues and she has covered some of the topics. Topics that came up on this week's episodes including FM manly and the centennial of the founding of the Negro Leagues and the continued underrepresentation of black leaders of baseball teams shell so wrote about the grave markers that we talked about today, so she's published pieces at both times, Fan, graphs and baseball prospectus estimation. I will link to some of those and encourage you to check them out. Also, please check out rub. Arthur's recent work at baseball prospectus where he has mind the statistical data to uncover evidence of racial bias in Scouting and in player valuation and promoting players and for much of this. This he is used the database of reds scouting reports that I was able to obtain in that he and I analyzed for series of articles at the ringer last year, and in that article we were able to determine that there is kind of coded language that Scouts in that period were using to describe non white players that certain terms which you can probably imagine got applied to white players more often than not white players and vice versa, and he has continued to dig into that resource, and has found that non white players have historically been undervalued compared to white players that they've. They've seemingly have been promoted more slowly given comparable performance so this week we've been talking about. Pressured is's that were in place several decades ago or a century ago or more and in baseball, some of those prejudices are still in place, just in less obvious and visible ways, but still significant ones. You can support the podcast unpatriotic by going to Patriot dot com slash effectively wild following five listeners have already signed up pledge some small the amount to help keep the podcast going and get themselves access to some perks Andrew. Win at Dane, Jesus K D and Tom on. Thanks to all of. Of You can join our facebook group at facebook.com/group/podcastbeyond wild, you can review and subscribe to effectively wild on itunes and other podcasts platforms. Keep your questions and comments me and Meghan SAM coming the email at podcast fan, grass, dot, com, or via the Patriot missile system. If you are a supporter, thanks Higgins for his editing assistance this week. This episode fifteen sixty, so we're ending this week on a multiple of five animal of three so satisfying. We hope you have a good holiday weekend and we will be back early next week to resume season preview podcasts. Talk to you then one on. Long. I. Tell you. The. In. In the Law Lane and Long? The bed.

Negro Leagues baseball League Scott Boris Jason Emeco Kenley Jansen Preeminent Negro Leagues Lindsay Adler Larry Lester COVID Negro Leagues Museum CO founder CBA Negro Leagues Baseball Museum Chicago Josh Gibson A. Ben Scott official Sam
Effectively Wild Episode 1562: Season Preview Series: Yankees and Tigers

Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast

1:22:17 hr | 7 months ago

Effectively Wild Episode 1562: Season Preview Series: Yankees and Tigers

"The people that far. Close people look severe. Morose. People look down people about. Looking down. The borough. Looking down. Abrupt Arrays. EZEE! Every. CD. I'm sure. Don't see. The most low end welcomed episode fifteen, sixty, two of effectively wild van grass-based podcast brought to you by our Patriot supporters I meg rally fan graphs than I'm joined as always pay bend Lindberg of the Ringer Ben Houria I'm doing okay. We have a preview packed episode for everyone today. That in just a moment one and to provide a quick update about Sam our co host. Some of you have been wondering how he's been as have. We and we've chatted with him this week and the issue that he's been dealing with is migraines. Somewhat severe migraines that are exacerbated by stress and podcast recording was not helping with his attempts to manage that, and that's why he took some time off in is. Is Continuing to take some time off in figuring out how best to treat that and go about his business, so we are hoping for the best for him, and we don't know exactly when he'll be back in. Don't want to put any pressure on him to be back, but he is hoping to be back as soon as possible. And of course Miss Him Penn WanNa. Talk to him as soon as we can. But, we want to let everybody know he's. He's okay. Yes, simple, you know. This is one of the Nice things about our communities that folks were thoughtful and they worry, so we want to layer worries Samuel. Okay he's just taking care of business as of Elo migraine suffer relate strongly. Been Lucky to escape, set particular her plate, but it's quite unpleasant, so yeah. I have sympathy for both of you and Sam's seemed to be quite disruptive so I'm sorry to hear that and hope that that will not continue to be the case. So today we are doing two more team. Previews is bizarre third to last season preview episode, just two more episodes like this after today and four more teams, but today we've a couple of good conversations later in the episode, we will be talking to Anthony Fenick of the Detroit free press about the Tigers, but first we are talking about the New York. York. He's with our pal in Seattle of the athletic. A True Yankees beat writer. If there ever was one. Hey, Lindsay, hey, guys so I guess we'll start with what is now. Our Standard opening question about baseball amid pandemic, so has testing gun thus far. What have the Yankees said? What concerns have? The players expressed about playing under these conditions, and just on a personal level has camped been for you. And what is it like to be covering facebook? My understanding is that testing for the in Kansas not necessarily been as chaotic as it has been for. You know the as or Joey Gallo specifically. I don't think they. It doesn't seem like they're going to be giving US updates every time test. Come back late, but one thing you know that Aaron Boone said was. That you own a system where you have tests coming back about every forty eight hours like those. Everyone's already at risk and You know when you receive those results whether. It's forty eight hours after he sent the samples or seventy two hours after that. All that is telling you is who was negative two or three days ago. So they seem to just be you know. Rolling with it sounds to me like. You know the organization in everyone around the team has been really. Good about making sure everyone's doing the right thing. Really staying really safe, so that's That's a relief on a lot of levels, but For me, it's just been kind of bizarre like to some extent, it just feels. Like. Nothing even happened. You know just to some extent. I'm just sitting back in the press box. Watching people stretch the difference being that many of them are wearing masks and I'm watching them from Benach yours and not speaking to them in person. But you know it's just been nice to really be able to. You know to the extent that I'm watching SIM Games and workout still get back to talking to players more regularly, talking to the manager more regularly and. At least be able to watch Garrett Cole pitching a Sim game or something like that after so many months of just. Sitting in an wondering, if it's GonNa, come back so. Can you walk us through the binoculars camera phone technique because we've seen the beat writer Spring Training Photo return for summer camp with a vengeance here, but instead of the very hazy Faki Faraway pictures that we normally get were getting clear pictures, but through binoculars so that the beat writers are having to learn new tricks here to keep. The field picks coming from far away. Yeah I know I. I ordered some binoculars from the nature. You Know Cameron Electron IX store, and it's like well okay. I don't want the ten dollar ones I. DON'T WANNA get fifty dollar one so I'll just get these. You know seemingly basic thirty dollar once like like bird, watching intense and. I don't know how anyone else's like taking photos through their binoculars. Because every time I hold my phone up to it it just. I don't know if I just don't know how to use binoculars, but it's like the whole thing for me because my eyesight is pretty bad from staring at screens all the time so like. I'm having to take my glasses off been oculus back on, but then if I need to see the whole field quickly after puts the binoculars down and put my glasses back on, and then you know if I like but the binoculars to my face with my glasses on, it doesn't work and I'm like you know I must look really cool, really cool just. Like, my double fisting binoculars in my like nerd glasses back and forth. To get you a sort of rigs setup can the the night vision specs in Jurassic Park that sit on your head, and then you can put his glasses in front of them. Try to reach things. Yes. I think one of the the strange things about the Yankees. And obviously we don't think about the pandemic having benefited anyone because I'm sure that they would have liked to add a full season of Garrett. Cole and R. Cognizant of the effects that this is had on people away from baseball, but I think that if we had done this episode earlier in the spring, we would have had to have you come back for an injury update because they are one of the teams that is probably going to be healed the most as a result of the long layoff, so maybe we can just take these kind of in order if we recorded. Recorded, the Song March there would have been a couple of players, notable players whose injury satisfy defending question for for normal opening day, so run us through an let's start I guess with Paxton and then we can go through some of the position players. What is the latest and greatest on James Paxton? Who was going to be out with back issues until May and his now presumably going to be ready for opening day yet? James James Paxson looks good. He through. You know through the hitters few days ago I think it was about. He sat down once or maybe twice in, and he looked good looked like he was at full strength. said he felt fine, so yeah, you know it's. It's almost interesting in his case because. I think you know if we can assume that he would have been. Really ready to come back by mid. May you know it just made it so that he didn't have to to rush at all? And then how about some of the position players? So we have judge, we have stanton, and then I would imagine that they're in a position to get Aaron Hicks back as well. So judge looks good He. Says? He's swinging without pain after they figured out the rib fracture in fortunately, the collapsed lung during spring training, so he's the Yankees played to Sim Games through as of now Thursday morning thinks there's a he's been in right field for both of them. He's you know. Look good at the plate like every other hitter I think he's still working on his timing, but he seems seems good to go and then. Stanton Stanton says that he is on schedule to be ready for opening day. As a designated hitter, he said actually the. His calf strain that he suffered on March. Only recently started to really feel one hundred percent, so he is hopeful that you know through. Time and kind of building up in this setting he can play the outfield later in the season but I. don't think the Yankees were going to. You. Know having take much playing. Time out there anyway, so it seems like he's. Ready to go to d. h., and then yeah Aaron. Hicks looks good. He's been doing outfield drills and everything, and it's like dude like you know at the end of last season when he did get Ucla Surgery. We're like Maybe it was. Maybe he should have just gotten it sooner instead of trying to play through it and now none of that matters because he is very likely to be ready for opening day. And, then, of course, the Yankees reminded us that Kovic. Is Not the only injury concern that. That folks have to grapple with. In this moment we got an unfortunate reminder. pitchers can get injured just by doing stuff. What's the latest on Tanaka who was hit by? It was a stanton comebacker over the weekend rate. Gosh between Stanton and judge I don't know which I'd rather like to experience less, but it. Those are the two leaders in the clubhouse. Yet I don't know how anyone faces. Stan James Paxton told us that comebacker was one hundred twelve miles an hour, but Tanaka is apparently doing very well. He's been at the park. The last two or three days, and he's Aaron Boone's told us he's been able to write on the stationary bike. I think you said he did some work outside yesterday and. The doctors are happy that when when he's elevating his heart rate, he's not feeling any of initial concussion symptoms that he felt when he first took the head and. Boone has said that. The initial quote concussion like symptoms. He had basically dissipated before he was discharged from the hospital. Anyway, so you know we don't know what the timeline is. You know I think. Everyone wants him to take the time he needs, but yeah it. It seems like. Beyond what it looks like he's doing pretty well. Fortunately so broader injury related question the Yankees let go of their director of strength and conditioning Matt Krause over the winter, and they hired Eric Cressey who is something of a celebrity in that field. So to what extent was that just well? We just had a historic injury year, so we'd better do something different. And to what extent were they able to? Actually diagnose? Went went wrong last year if it was something about the process that went wrong as opposed to just historically terrible luck. I. Would love to you. Know have reported more extensively on that. You know, but. When it comes to. Player injuries and things along those lines like they. They played it pretty close to the vest. I haven't really gotten a good read on it. You know cash hin. Course gave us that quote last year that they would investigate. Like CSI the Bronx. But I think a big thing is just that you know. We saw so many soft tissue, injuries, and setbacks and whatnot, and you know I think it's really interesting timing that they have. Cressey coming in this season right as her about to start a sixty game potential postseason sprint when everyone is terrified about soft tissue injuries so. I think. You know I don't know what we can really take from. Last year, but I think it will be really interesting to see you know help. Players hold up. This season. Have you noticed anything? Different are the stretches that you're seeing from faraway at different from the stretches you saw last spring, or is there any real difference when it comes to training? Routines are I. Guess Everything Has Been Awed obviously for the past few months, but were you able to see anything in spring training that suggested that the process had been revamped in some way. Five hundred years ago, there's anything specific that I did see. I think it might have been lost time right now, but you know one cross's fake things is having this on one of the backfield's at the. At the Tampa facility there's a hill and like. If you look past the hill, you can see a very nice like littering signed for a strip club, making it all very perfectly Tampa, but you know his one of Cross's big things with having players on the hill and whatnot and I. Don't think I saw that as much but. I gotta be honest when we're getting to the point. Where like guys are just doing like ninety foot? That's when I usually try to catch up on. What other teams around the League are doing. So when we look at the Yankees player pool especially on the prospect side. They went very heavy on pitching. When, Eric Long Hagen wrote about their prospect pool for us a fan graphs, he noted that they might only have one full lineup of position players working out the AAA facility at any given time among the sea of pitching prospects. Do you have a sense of who were likely to see debut this year? I would say Clark Schmidt were the Yankees have a Sim game tonight David Garcia will hit. The Sadat could be cool, but you know Clark is. He has the college experience he's he's older. He's just looked really good. He looked really good in spring. He looked really good. You know when a Sim game the other day and I know that his spring performance and kind of the way he carries himself, really just impressed a lot of people. I think it's impressed a lot of us, and so I think we'll see Clark Schmidt at some point I think there's also a chance that we could see as well. I you know I I know. They want to make sure that they. Really, get him the development before kind of exposing him to this level as well another change. The Yankees made on the pitching side was going from Larry. Rothschild to Matt Blake, the new pitching coach subtracted more than thirty years there. They went quite a bit younger, but also blake is someone who has worked with Chrissy before, and doesn't have the more traditional high level playing background that Rothschild did his sort of embraced some of the newer player development methods, so was there dissatisfaction with Rothschild, or was it just that they really liked Blake and again? Have you noticed any difference there? Yes, so the biggest thing I noticed in spring was that they were you know doing. bullpens and throwing on the wheel off the mountains on the main field in Tampa in front of Rep Sotos Cameras, and they had they had a screen with the editor traffic setup behind it and everything like that and. There's just been a much bigger integration of technology some of the players. You know this is really been their first time throwing in front of systems like that reliably I think you know I think they just wanted a little bit more cohesion throughout the organization just in terms of like. Delivering Information and kind of how it was processed in so I think Matt is you know I think he's someone who they've really heard. A lot of great things about in like I am personally very big Larry. Fan and I'm excited every time like a photo of him pops up from someone like retweeting a padres thing in whatever, but yeah, it's it's been a little bit different in terms of kind of how open they've been about their use of technology, and then another thing that I noticed that I think I'm not sure if it's a matter thing or if it's a Garrett. Cole thing but I noticed a lot of a lot more players. Sitting in watching each other's old Penton Sim Games during spring training as well there was. There would always be like him. Honestly most of the major league pitching staff sitting behind a screen when someone was strong, assume game. Do you have a sense of what the organization's approach to player development in a year like this is going to be? Obviously, you have sort of a prospect heavy pool in some respects, so the guys at the alternate cider are going to get upset, but for all of their prospects who were not selected to be in the player pool. What what are they trying to do to keep those guys on track from a developmental perspective he. I think it definitely gets really tough right now, but I know that during the shutdown. Coaches and just the player development staff I know that they were keeping in touch with everyone kind of. Making sure they had programs and things like that and trying to help them kind of figuring out how to stay sharp and how to stay ready. You know maybe while some of them do not have facilities like some of the major league. Guys do and so. I don't know that's one of my big questions is well. I think it's just like logistically nightmare in I think. Something that? Is Really Difficult, is that? If. The minor, league contraction is formalized. There's a standard. Basically size that a that a minor league system can be. The Yankees will have to make I think. Forty, five more player cuts in so like. Okay they saw they saw most of the players in their system for. Week or two during spring maybe and so. I don't know necessarily if you have to not just look at. You know where you want guys to go swimming hoping everything is normal next year, but you have to make moves just I. Don't know how you can necessarily evaluate unless you have must send everyone in the system. You. Know Rap, Soto or Bat sensors or things like that. You should probably talk about Garrett Cole bit so at the trade deadline last year Brian. CASHMAN didn't make a move for a starter and was criticized for that at the time, and then the Yankees rotation didn't perform so well in the postseason in a lot of people said I told you so and then. Brian Cashman went out and splurged on coal and so I guess you could say oh. He learned his lesson and realized the error of his ways. Ways, but really at the deadline last year. He said he didn't think they were any impact. pitchers, available or difference, makers and Garrett. Cole is set difference maker. If anyone is so, do you think any of that was? Oh, I guess it is good to have starting pitchers and renewed appreciation for that, or is it just that? Hey, Kirk Cole was available, and he's the best pitcher in baseball. I think they were gonNA. They knew that call was. was there winter. You know they've. CASHMAN's called him his white whale or whatever but even. Even last summer I remember after they drafted Jack, lighter, out lighter son, who they expected to go to college. Instead you know their scouting director, Damon, Oppenheimer, said look, you know. We see this as a gesture. We drafted Garrett Cole and we hope that it will help us. Come this winter and so. You know it's a very long game that they played with this like a very very long game. But I think. They tried to get him from from Pittsburgh and so. I think. The organization. Looked at what some of the starters who are available last year the deadline and just didn't really like what they would have had to give up to receive them and I think Cashman's philosophy at this point is do not panic so. There are so well positioned from a rotation perspective, assuming Tanaka Comeback healthy with Paxton there, but the Yankees are also pretty stacked when it comes from the bullpen, so I'm curious if there's been any conversation in camp so far just keeping in mind that they have to keep these guys healthy for sprint that they're anticipating along playoff run. Are we going to see any creative deployment of those starters or the bullpen? They obviously don't need to Garrett. Cole can is go every five days and everything's fine, but they are sort of a fully operational dust star in the way that they wanted to be going into the season, even if the season looks very different than what they anticipated, so. Going to be any no shenanigans when it comes to how these guys are deployed, are they? GonNa play a pretty straight. Do you think I think right now? They think they'll play it pretty straight. You know the the thing. The Matt Blake and Aaron Boone of Said is like we have our plans, but we'll have to see how things go, but as of right now they're not looking at you. Know six man, rotation or anything like that, or at least they weren't you know before Tanaka was hit and so. The one thing I could see right now. It's like if If they do begin the season with. An empty spot in the rotation and goes to a younger less experienced player there there could be some creativity there, but you know a lot of those main guys you see in their bullpen. They were really able to stay ready. Stay Sharp, I mean. Vino was throwing the bullpen catcher off mound in his backyard with Garrett Cole, and then later once New York state restrictions lifted throwing Hanky Stadium Zach Britton has his own like pitching lab at his house in Austin like Chad Green was able to. Go to a facility in Kentucky Aroldis Chapman just looks ridiculously in shape, so I think a lot of the main guys. They would've leaned on anyway they they were really able to. Have a good system during this so I think it would be different if they had like come in. No one had been able to throw so. You know I thought that early in the season we've had ceased starters comment in just throw like a couple innings, and then Garrett went out the other day in the in the first tim game through five innings in sixty seven pitches. So you know I'm going to stop talking about what I. Think will happen and I. Guess we'll just You know we'll. We'll see how the schedule in this situation shakes out. Bingo Herman will not be part of that pitching staff the season because he had sixty three games left on his suspension, and hey, it's a sixty game season. So that's that, but we will see more of Jordan. Montgomery and I wonder what you think. We will see out of him. Him because we talked about Hicks and his comeback from Tommy John Surgery, just last October Montgomery made it back last year from his own Tommy John Surgery but only got into a couple of games, and it's now been three years since his really impressive rookie campaign, so is it expected that he can be close to what he was in two thousand seventeen. He looked good and sprang. He was can't remember what his lawsuit was, but it was higher. You know he's he's older. He has a better sense of how to take care of himself. He's learned a lot in the last few years. And so I think he's actually going into this in a pretty good position. Nice spoke to him in April or something, and so he's another guy who was able to you know, throw off amount to you. Know a high school. He may a friend, so does in the SIM game tonight. I can't remember if Aaron Boone said. Think. He said he'll maybe go two maybe three innings if he looks anything like he did in spring like I, think he's ready to go. You Know I. Don't think he's going out there with any limitations. They don't really think he wasn't spring anyway and I think yet. I think he's ready to go and I think he's. He looks like a guy who's kind of ready to be throwing harder than than he did before the surgery one of the guys last year who allowed the Yankees to whether they're terrifying spate of injuries and was a pleasant surprise I think in terms of how while he hit and contributed was Mike talk men. What is the role that the team is envisioning for him this year? given that some of you know his contemporaries of returned from injury. And what are they sort of hoping for in terms of his next step forward? You don't just so. It's hard to gauge the outfielders. Since the last time we saw like you said like they were missing. Three three regular outfielders so. I'm not necessarily sure I mean I. Don't know how they're going to get everyone playing time like unless they can operate this season like Sim game and just have like fifteen hitters. I'm not I'm not sure. I think you know I know that. They've said that. They don't like I said before they don't necessarily. It didn't seem like they were really planning on having stand. Play the bulk of his time in the outfield. Anyway so I. Think you know with Hicks back like I think talk could get a lot of time in in left field, but then when you look at left field, it's like okay. You have talk. Men who have. Wreck Gardner you have. Clint Frazier. You have the Elon Do. Har- like there's probably like four different is when forgetting. So, but I think you know especially while Hicks is. Building backup whatnot being able to use him at both you left and center I think we'll be. We'll be good in. Honestly, it's just a really valuable lefty bad. You know yeah and I guess they face those sorts of decisions with a lot of players because they had so many guys come at an aware and have career years last year as we talk to you about at the time than they had to figure out well. Are these guys actually that good? Should we count on them? Do even have space for them, so cameron may been for instance was one of those breakout guys and Yankees. Let him go, and he's now back with the Tigers. The team were talking about next, but then you also have. Have guys who are still round like talk. Men are like Geo or shallow, and now and do hearts back, and it's like well did and do Harkat his job loose starting role, because her shell was so great, or do you trust the or shallow will continue to be that great, so it was really wonderful for the Yankees that all those guys stepped up the way that they did, but that then create some decisions and uncertainties about okay. Do we actually want the for stringers to supplant these guys or they earn no role yet you know during spring. They said that you know Gio has earned the right to. Have Third, base it his job to lose. Basically and you know. I think do has been really good with like being willing to be flexible he. Certainly looked good homering off air cold the other day, and again like said like. Pandemic is not good, but when you have a guy returning from a shoulder injury in trying to try out some new defensive roles Jahar, stayed in Tampa during the shutdown. was able to work out. He said at a friend's facility, but then I also believe that the Yankees Complex when they were allowed to do so so I've thought he's looked fine and left. You know they were doing drills the other day and there was A. You know all that hopped off the wall. They played pretty well, so it is really interesting in. It's like funny. How quickly? These things can happen like a few weeks ago. I tried to project a roster like fifty. Clare. Roster I. DID IT entirely wrong? In the process of taking my list of guys and Putting them into the document by position whatnot I forgot Mike Ford which was seriously not intentional, and like people got so mad and they're like like how dare you forget Mike Ford and I'm like I'm not trying to forget Mike Ford. But like a year ago like you would not be yelling at me for like making a copy and paste error with Mike. Ford and I think that's just something that's so. Interesting like they have had so many of these guys the or shall, as Ford's honestly the void, the talk men come in like get an opportunity and produce enough to really kind of stick it out and. Now they've got an embarrassment of riches and. I don't think they're sad to have too many guys for. The amount of playing time they can provide, but it's It's really kind of wild. Honestly, yeah, well, you can forget about Craig Bird. At least guess the Creek Bird era in new. York is over sadly good luck in Texas. Rick I wish you will, but the Clint Frazier era, still going or trying to go, so he's around. He's presumably on the bench somewhere. Did they make much of an attempt to shop around over the off season? Do you know why were they interested in doing that or do? They still feel like there is somehow a role for him I'm not quite sure I know that they really value him. Again anything beyond like two weeks ago feels like it has been seven hundred years to need, but I believe last year. With some of the trade packages I believe part of the issue in terms of like what the Yankees felt that they would have to give up for starters, who they weren't sure would really be impact. Players would have been. You Know Clinton, and maybe a few other players, so they value highly like Aaron. Boone said he's been dealing with plantar fasciitis over the last couple months. He said he's Clint is fine and they're just. They're the ones choosing slow. Play him, but like Tom take batting practice the other day in like I. don't care what's up with this foot like still hit the bat speed is really really still. They're like it's funny to me that after seeing clint play inconsistently but. The last few years I'd kind of become. Used to that bat speed in his hitting ability, but now after not seeing live baseball for three nearly four months like seeing him take ep like Whoa like. Okay, yes, it's! It's still it's still the same thing here. This is obviously a very strange season, but I think that the Yankees are one of the teams that were sort of counting on to make us feel like baseball is normal because they should be good, they should have a long playoff run. They clearly wanted this year to be a year where things coalesced around gear, co-leading rotations, amazing surplus have great position players. A lot can happen in a sixty game season, but in terms of how the Yankees view themselves. Themselves positioned competitively in an east. That is still quite competitive with the rays and the blue jays potentially ascendant, even as Baltimore is Baltimore and the red. SOx are less good at baseball. How are they sort of viewing themselves positions this year and does this year change anything? The format of it change anything about their expectations. Our the guys feeling about the legitimacy of the season. I'm curious what players think about the sixty game season, and whether you know ring. This year would mean to them in any other year. During spring, they were really really united in the idea of. Contending and Getting, that championship and something Aaron. Boone said it was something every place that it was something that I picked up on just in talking employers in people around the team. It was very very real I think that that sentiment. In, that common goal very much still. Exists I. Don't know. Necessarily what everyone thinks about like the value and legitimacy of sixty game season? I believe someone may have been. Garrett talked about like look like it's sixty game season like we still want still want to win it, but the thing that I think about when you're thinking talking about the real common sentiment like. Let's do what we have to to win this year because there's a lot of guys in there who are tired of being sent home in mid October is. You know these guys. Are you know they have something to play for? They know that there is. There is a path for them. It's why you see so. Many of the guys like Aaron Judge, other big name guys just openly expressing like how excited they were when the Yankee signed Garrett Colon I think. Honestly one of the biggest values of that the season is like. They all know that if they want to have this, be a full season a contending season. You know, have them as a team. Make it to October intact like they need to be really serious about their health and safety, and they need to hold each other accountable and so. When it comes to thinking about like. Is the team I cover going to take this stuff seriously. I feel a little bit relieved for a lot of reasons. Knowing that they all feel that like the season is definitely something something that they are really motivated to do well to do right, so you know I'm not rooting for anyone or anything. That's what I'm saying I'm just I. Just mean like from a point of view. I want everyone to be. A healthy and safe. You know I think I think they all know that like. They may have to make sacrifices in terms of not going to restaurants, or whatever, because they They are really looking at that championship now. When you were actually in the clubhouse, and around these guys every day again five hundred years go in the spring. Did you notice any difference? Because of the absence of CICI's bath, Ya and whatever leadership and presents he provided, and what role does he have with the team now? that he wants to be involved in, they want him to be involved. So He's a special adviser now. And he has been stands for votes SIM Games so far and he you know within the outfield with a lefty catcher glove on the other day while. Teammates shaggy fly balls I didn't necessarily. Notice. A difference it's it's definitely. A bit of a different team. I think I would have noticed it more. Had the regular season begun because in the Yankees clubhouse the. Lockers on either side of the door that goes to like A. Weight Room and all of that on the left side. It's Brett Gardner on the right side at C. Suburbia so. I've noticed more in that regard, but you know gardeners still there. He knows that you know he is the elder statesmen. Now I think judge has really stepped up in terms of wanting to take on that leadership role end. In terms of the pitching staff like they all really gravitated to Garrett end speaking of Jordan Montgomery. He was someone who. I kind of saw him interacting with Garrett the way he interacted with CDC like he nc are really close. He really looks up to see and I can see. The same thing engages in so. You know I think SISI feels like they're in good hands and I think they have a pretty good. Idea of in a sense of succession plan, but he's definitely clearly still around the organization really really values his opinion, but I think right now CICI's enjoying being what he describes as just an employee. You mentioned Gardner and much to my dismay and much too dense skis to say Dan included him on his list of breakdown candidates for twenty twenty the other day. Really who, among us is not a breakdown candidate for twenty twenty, but as much as I would like Garner to be ageless, he is not. He is almost thirty seven. He turns thirty seven next month. Month and Dan wrote that last season. Gartner focused on pulling the baseball and crushing fastballs, hitting more than a quarter of his career homers on fastballs last year alone as he enters his late thirties without elite exit. Philosophy is I'm skeptical that he'll continue to hold up as well as say Nelson Cruz has and you wrote about that change? In approach that Carter made, so it was an intentional thing. Do you see it as kind of compensating for declining skills, bat speed, sorta thing, or was it just something that made sense anyway and could continue to benefit him. I think so the sense I get is that it's very much philosophy of the current coaching staff I think Marcus Thames as someone who is really instilled in these guys like it's okay to really focus on your ace wing, and that's really what Gardner is said is an I think it's similar kind of what Cameron was talking about as well like you just put your best swing on it and try to drive it I think it's. It is hard to know what this season will look like for Brett because. I think. He probably benefited from the. You know super juice ball last year I think a lot of his power was legit, though we don't know what the baseball is going to be like. But then you know like you said he is in his later thirties, and he had an extra few months without having to play every day so. You know watching him in some game the other day like the thing about like is, he still has speed you know he. It was interesting to see him. You know slugs so many Dinger's last year, but you know he knows who he is. His game is consistent. He knows he's toward the end his career, but yet he's he's one who going into the season. I was really curious to see what his production looked like this year versus last year now with some more time kind of you know like I said not be playing nine innings every day. I'm curious to see what type of playing time he'll get in a sprint and really what he'll show for it. I I wouldn't be surprised if if he had another great season though right so I just wanted to ask. Ask You about two more guys so much as you've been working on Europe inoculate mechanics, they've been working on their pitching and catching mechanics, and these are two guys who were separated by ten years in age half, and Gary Sanchez and you read about how half was trying to either go back in time with his mechanics or recapture the way they work before and Sanchez has worked with the new catching coach. Tenor Swanson. Who is the guy who is often credited with helping Mitch garber become a better framer and obviously. Sanchez is defense has been divisive to say the least over the years. So, what did those guys do? And how are they looking? So Jay Really. Really worked his ass off this off season. He win and I think like two weeks after their season ended. He asked for like a full basically analysis of. of his mechanics and how he's using his body. The thing that the the training staff that third new director of pitching Sam brand. Determined was basically. Jay's posture is just too good now i. think you know for as long as we've all watched J. you know we're used to that. Vary like upright very like light, fluttering, looking delivery and so he. Really just worked on. Training himself to stay kind of over his back leg, more have his believe me over his toes, a little bit more I think. He felt that he was Kinda like. Toward the plate so You. Know. He seemed to feel really good I know that he was still. Staying at it during the shutdown in. Gary is Gary's looked good as well like Gary. Came back looking great. He said he spent. I think a few days in. But then a meat, but then very quickly decided to go back to the Dominican Republic. Because he knew he had a facility, he could work out there and. I mean he had. I don't even remember what it was. He had some minor thing in spring. So this is giving him time to get past that but. The thing with Gary and new stance is not just that lake. It will help him with his framing because of the stance I think I. Think is really taking a lot of the like. Criticism about his walking to Heart End I. Think what we saw last year by remark, remember correctly. Was that like? He really focused on his. Walking and I think it's just very difficult like. Every time a ball gets had him knowing the he's just going to get hammered for it and so. I think he focused on blocking to the detriment of framing, but then when you have so many guys like Tanaka Zach Britton who really need that bottom bottom part of the zone? I think a big thing that tanner's done is. You know really come in with this philosophy that like. Look we. We all wish that like you could have every element of catching and have them all work together perfectly, but you. But I think he's done a good job of saying. This dance will help you with your blocking, but. Here's the value that framing and receiving can really have and I know that he's. had a good relationship with area, I think he's been really supportive of him and yeah I mean. Another thing that I feel like I've been waiting like. Six months to see how it how it works in practice. So less spring on this podcast you boldly predicted that the Yankees would win one hundred five games, and you came close to nailing it. It would be even bolder to predict that they win one hundred five games this season. But I want to ask two questions that we've been asking are guests in this resumed previous series? Which is a? How many games do you think they would have won? Over a hundred sixty two game season so low stakes prediction there, and then. How many do you think the win over the six game season in? It's kind of interesting question with the Yankees specifically because as we've talked about, there may be a better team over the course of this shortened season than they would have been over a full link, Susan. You do like they were a hundred and three win team. Despite having seven hundred is go on the injured list. And then they added Garrett Cole like. Do. I. Just say one. Oh, five again like okay. Over one hundred sixty two game season I think I would have just projected one zero five. And so for sixty game season I think I'm gonNA stick around that. I mean someone said to me like it could be. You. Know could be twenty. Eight could be forty eight and so. I think. Thirty seven thirty eight is about you know what one? Oh, three is so I. Think I'm GonNa. Go with that because I think. Season when. The their improved. They're going into it healthier than they would have in the spring now. There's still so many things that could happen, not just. Not just injuries in this time when everyone's concerned, but you know there's a virus you know that that to me is a wild card, so I think. I'M GONNA go with about thirty seven. Looking beyond this year. Do you know if they've talked at all to judge or Sanchez about extensions both those guys will be free agents after twenty, twenty two and in theory. You'd think that maybe this would have been a pretty good time to approach them. Coming off these injuries short years that they've. I don't believe they have and I believe during Spring Tj Lemay. He said they had not. Him about an extension either then. Obviously when everything got shut down, you basically have no idea what you're personnel is going to look like once once you get season back. If you get one at all, so yeah, I would think that. All three of those, but yet judging judge Sanchez I I would think projecting out from here like extension would be the way to go right for for all parties all right well, it is time for you to get to the park, so grab your Benach you. Work on your camera technique and everyone can follow you on twitter at Lindsay Adler and reach you at the athletic which we recommend because Wednesay is great. Thank you as always for coming on. All Right? We'll take a quick break now, and we'll be back in just a moment with Anthony of the Detroit free press to talk about the pikers fuck. Don. Right we are back. It's time to talk about tigers do that. We are joined by Anthony Fenick of the Detroit free. Press Anthony has gone. Good how you guys doing. Okay, so I know that. Just before we started speaking, you're filing a story on Norris who said that he has or had tested positive for cocaine nineteen. How else have the Tigers been affected so far whether it's players testing positive or testing problems in camp? Have they encountered any issues far well? It's been kind of a complicated situation because of. Of the way, the major league baseball has set things up in the Tigers have really gone by the book with that Norris was just a you know. Norris came out today basically so that he had had it. What the Tigers yesterday announced that they had individuals in the organization that had tested positive, and it puts reporters at least in a weird spot because you know. Know. It's not really in our nature to collect. Speculate about something sensitive like that, so we're watching workouts, and then we're saying okay. We noticed that these guys aren't here, but again. It's just kind of the the gray area that we're in now. We've seen about six or seven guys to raise. The outfielder showed up today. He was paternity leave. That was not covid related. Related, but everything I mean from their end outside of the players haven't reported to camp. It seems like everything's going as expected. They haven't experienced kind of delays testing that other teams have had. What is the sort of atmosphere Ben like for them in camp. Our players concern about whether the season is going to be played to completion. Are there any players who have? voiced their discomfort with those season resuming at all now. Really it's kind of A. It's hard to gauge because we're just talking to them. You know over zoom calls now whereas we would. Be in the clubhouse and whatnot. I would say that generally the Tigers are a group of youngsters. They have some more veterans mixed in this season, but I think I. Think Pretty Much. Everybody's just kind of excited to get back out there. It'll be interesting to see how how this kind of evolves as some of these players that have been away. Start Arriving decamp because I think he at least in the We're going on about a week now. In decamp around baseball I think generally speaking over the past kind of forty eight hours, or so. We've kind of started to hear. A sense of responsibility on players ends about Yo we gotTA. Really, Stick to our PS and QS here to get through this team and whatnot, but no, we haven't heard anything really area outspoken tigers camp. It's just kind of been summer camp going through the motions now we've got an inter squad games, which is finally good after a few days live BP, so everything in that regard seems to be kind of status quo. Yes, so in that Inter Scott game on Thursday there was an exciting site which was Casey mayes striking out Miko Cabrera on three pitches. At least the Casey mice. Part of that was exciting, and there's been a lot of talk about how prominent role hill play this? This season, and whether there's a place on the roster for some of the other exciting young pitching prospects. The Tigers have an Joe. Sheehan recently proposed that the Tigers just play those guys that they call up Matt Manning Casey Mayes Tarik scruple, even though those guys are not on the forty man. Even though you'd be starting their services time clocks Joe said well. It's a sixty game season. Anything can happen might as well make it entertaining, and who knows maybe they go on a run, plus those guys aren't going to be playing in the minors anyway, and you want them to get some kind of innings or development time so. That always seemed a little bit far fetched. The at team would do that, but was there, or is there any consideration of that? And what role do you think any of those players? But particularly my is, we'll play in twenty twentieth any. I mean I. Definitely think that there's there's a pocket of the front office dead is. Let's say open to the idea of that. I don't think it's necessarily GONNA. Be Starting all these guys at the gate now remember I. Mean Like you said the service time and you know for me in an interesting part of it is the kind of herky-jerky nature of the twenty twenty season here, but it is kind of turning into a little bit of a perfect storm. Because when you talk about you know, you might have potential. Absences in the starting rotation with maybe guys you know throughout summer, camp and whatnot, and then guys like manning or misers, scuba could could step in They'll be up at some point. I think the developmentally. They're at a level. Where especially minds as we saw today I, mean he? He pretty much mowed through a a pretty veteran lineup. Now guys leg SCO bit Austin. Mind CJ krone and developmentally as he said a few days ago. There's not much left in terms of look, big-league innings is the the next. Next benchmark, so I think that at some point once the Tigers kind of figure out how to not risking entire year of service I? Think those guys will be up, but also there are five guys in the starting rotation I don't think necessarily in his slide right over for those guys, so it'll be interesting to see if they can get creative with say. Piggybacking some starting pitchers, sort of creates more innings for the young guys because I do think it is important developmentally, but I also don't think that this year is the Tigers Year I. Still Don't think that those offseason additions while they're very respectable. Veteran players I still think that you look at the bullpen, and it's kind of like Oh. Okay, what do we you know and I? I do think that I i. don't think this is their year. So whereas I think they will get their feet wet this season in order to make better run forward saying next next year coming into next year when a guy like Sade Spencer Torkelsson. Could help them out as well I. Don't think it's going to out of the Chute and going forward. Because just because I don't think they're that kind of team. One of the things that might open up some spots for those guys in our Tation, our trade I know that there has been seemingly for the last season. speculation about Matt Boyd's future on the Tigers whether he will find his way onto the trade market. Do you see them as sort of actively trying to sell any of those guys whether it's buoyed or some of their veteran pieces? That might play well for a couple. Couple of weeks, and then be an interesting back of the rotation piece for contending teams I don't really see especially in this in this year. When we really you know how many real baseball trades remade, another is one a few days ago, but it's GonNa, be interesting to see where the trade deadline's add given the season sixty game year I. Don't think I'm going to see a fit for the Tigers Frighten Brighton out, and obviously a lot of things could change, but came at the last summer was so strong offers. They pretty much. They pretty much stiff. Armed them then and I think. Think that there's a very good, said so exciting at summer camp because you have all the top starting pitching prospects, you have guys Torkelsson Riley Green and you could really see something happening here. Okay, and I think boy is part of that now whether that's going to be through with a contract extension. I wouldn't expect that at this time, but I think that they're going to kind of ride this out for now. Because at this point next season we could be talking about a whole different ballgame if let's say a guy like Torkelsson debuts tigers for five six games over five hundred at this point. Point it could be a much different thing so I don't necessarily think that they're in the same position is they were last season? So at this point? I wouldn't really expect any kind of fireworks. Matt Boyd especially in this kind of weird year for the trade deadline. We've talked a lot about Torkelsson already, so might as well just ask a question about him. What have your impressions of him been just as a presence as a personality, and what made the tiger so enamored of him? was there any consideration of anyone else taken with the top pick in the draft? Was He always there guy? I, don't so I think he was always guy and think they are a little bit fortunate that a player of his caliber was available for them in that fashion, because you never know year to year how the drafts GonNa? Shake out what kind of players are going to be available, but this is exactly the kind of guy that they needed middle the bad and We haven't really talked to him that much, but we saw him take batting practice a few days ago. He's obviously taking a couple of bats in the in the inner squad game is split. I think what really stood out to me. Besides the power, not mislead. He is really good power, but I think that he's more of a hitter than maybe people give him credit for. They're trying third base right now, but I guess I base, which is where he blade. Blade, throughout his career Zona. State that could be a nice fallback option because the Tigers don't have any first base prospects of the future, but regardless where he plays defensively, it's just the bat and they're so. Power starved throughout the organization. You know about all the top pitching prospects, but offensively the impact just isn't there and a guy like Torkelsson who's considered a very advanced hitter for his age. I mean that he's not even twenty one yet, so you put him in. If he could advance to to catch up with the with the arms demise, manning schools so the world I think the Tigers should be in a very very good position especially since I've other, get Riley Green so it. It almost guys. It's been surprising to me. How quickly it's kind of turned and do it. It's advantageous because they only do heads really sixty more games of the rebuild because. Because I expect coming into spring training next season. It's going to be a much different story with these guys not talking about service time where we could talk about how you know. They had five or six hundred, the good starts in twenty twenty and now they're starting a rookie of the year campaign the next season, so from that perspective. It's definitely it's definitely been an impact for Torkelsson. I'm curious how the guys who are not in the sixty man player pool are being handled in terms of player development, so what is the Tigers approach to their minor leaguers, who obviously going to be without a season, and might not have the benefit of being at the alternate site while the Big League club tries to sort out this word year. Well I think obviously they're going to have that. The taxi scrawled break off to the Toledo at some point, but I think a lot of this is still up in the air. especially with you know the them training in it's it's funny because I people commented before, but when Major League, baseball was talking about these plans Arizona Texas Florida in all that are getting hit really hard by the virus so i. I think a lot of that is really up in the air right now and like across major. League baseball they pretty much had a lot of these minor leaguers Kata doing their thing on their own I know that they've committed to paying their minor leaguers through the end of the season. I believe beyond, but yeah. I think it's something that's really up in the air for the Tigers Perspective at this point. Have they really modernized their player development system. Know that they've made some efforts there. Maybe they're kinda below the surface because the coaching staff is still sort of an older school staff, at least in terms of the backgrounds of the people on it, I don't know how they're thinking has evolved, but have their pin any clear and. Improvements or philosophical changes there. Yeah, for sure I'd say I mean they caught up I mean I i. don't WanNa. Say they've caught up because with the with the danger of analytics, everything keeps evolving so there's no real catching up, but they've taken a lot of big strides. If putting a put general manager, Alabama's put a lot of resources in Stanwick side, but I think that they're in a position and I think a lot of teams in baseball are in position to and teams. That may be more experienced. Analytics are starting to swing the curve in the other direction and try to figure out the perfect balance and I. I do think times tigers may be still kind trying to figure out what that perfect balances, because as you said, there's a very stark contrast of the the amount of advancements they've made in recent years and the makeup of their front office, which is largely scouting scouting based, I think that they made a couple of really key moves in the offseason, adding pretty much a director of player development position on the hitting side, also the pitching side I. think those those areas both need to be addressed so I think that they've done a good job in that sense, but again I think about finding the perfect balance because. The Tigers nextwave is a lot goes into the wind curve, and they're trying to get these guys in the younger in the minor leagues and I know that there's on seasons this year, but they're trying to get them kind of up to speed before they get up to Detroit. Can kind of continue that program growing and I know from both sides I mean it is very quote. Unquote Old, school coaching staff, but the kind of guys that they have on that staff have really learned a lot with the analytics and you know. I think the battle between kind of scouting analytics. Sometimes it's misconstrued because the the old school guys are always willing to learn more, and some of the really really out there numbers. You just have to find a way to process that input it in a way that they can best utilize in their teaching predict tigers have done a really good job of that. I think the if I'm not mistaken. The other day Michael Fulmer through his first pitches. What twenty eighteen as part of an intra squad for the Tigers? How did he look? What are their expectations for him this year? He looked really good I mean. I guess you've for me from my vantage point which look in spring training we used to be able to like be up close and personal with these guys on the backfield's in our counter, watching from the stands, but in net bullpen session kind of off the mount. He looked good Woodson me most with Foam, IRS Kinda, winning took his practice uniform off. He had like a cutoff workout shirt on. His arm looks looks really cut up in in that. That's different from the best. His body is in really good shape, but I think the time away kind of forced him to make changes Zapotitan. Obviously, he had a, he had a kid in it. It was kind of silver lining in terms of timing, and how they were doubt but I think he's in a very very impressive job of getting his body in shape and. And I think did when you start seeing that I talked about excitement in camp, but when you feel it, because you see a guy like Casey might bullpen session than right next to him is Franklin Perez. who was once a top prospect and he's. He's been injured a lot, but still got a lot of potential. Then you see fomer like that will. Former is going to be a guy that he could perhaps break. Break camp with the way. Did you know he's at in his development? Clear for baseball activities? They're going to still have to try findings forum, but the Tigers have a lot of pitching coming in. That's not even to mention a guy like Daniel, Norris or Spencer returnable, who in a sixty game season these guys could potentially put together some consistency in perhaps be tradable assets in the offseason, and there's a lot the pitching and And we haven't talked about Alex Fado Ed. They have a lot of pitching coming and I know. It's starting pitching at a notes risky, but when you look at it, the Tigers have a lot of options and they've leave looked at that as a surplus in good be paying dividends real soon so I think fulmer is really good and he he's GonNa be really intriguing option where he kinda ends up into this season. WAS THAT INTENTIONAL? Was that a philosophical decision that they wanted to really stockpile pitching prospects? 'cause you see some teams have won philosophy, which is well. pitchers get hurt, and it's hard to develop them in. It's hard to project them, so we'll get as many pictures as possible, and then it will just attrition, but we'll still have some leftover. Then other teams go in the other direction and say well. It's hard to bet on Pitcher, so we'll just get position. Players can count on. On them more, and if we have a lot of those than we could always trade them for pitchers, that kind of the the cubs approach, so was that something? The Tigers set out to doers that just SORTA worked out and is getting guys like Torkelsson and Riley Green kind of trying to balance the skills a little bit I think it was something that they set up to do. It was a strategy, but with the way that the chips fell so to speak it. A little bit more in that direction. If that makes any sense because they think around the time that they're picking high for minds, you know they give serious consideration to jared colonic, and at that point was kind of like. If there is a player like other like Torkelsson that was a little bit safer that number one overall pick that season with that kind of profiled, perhaps the Tigers went that direction to further balancer system out so when they go with. With minds there well, that know that makes it a little bit more pitching heavy, then obviously later in the draft, they find a school, so it's so that's kind of how that comes about, but I think they've done a good job. At least in the last two drafts trying to balance a system out because it was, it was a point where a couple years of you're like. Wow, there is really not much offensively, but to the Tigers credit. In going this direction with this strategy, obviously know the attrition was starting pitching, but I think they're also looking at it. As thirty pitchers generally speaking, are some of the you know the most high priced free agents out there in? They're trying to kind of balance that from from a payroll perspective, identify good job over the years in terms of developing starting pitching, so that's kind of Of Been in their wheelhouse, but yeah, when you when you when you compare it. At least recently before Torkelsson came or before Riley Green came aboard, because right of the green. He's really he's really impressed, too I mean he kind of. He's got body ready, and he's got a really nice lefthanded swing before they came up. You're trying to compare them to other rebuilding teams and it's like. Wow will the astros did it on the diamond? The cubs dinner on the diamond. The royals candidated a whole different way with the bullpen, so it'll be interesting to see because you know. The injuries are to come their inevitable, but it'll be interesting to see how A. Of can make it through in that regard because they do have a very very impressive crop of starting pitching from from the majors to the miners. This is a wildly premature question, so I'm going to preface it by saying that this team is going to be in a fairly advantageous payroll situation next year with this great crop of young pitchers coming up and Spencer Torkelsson. Torkelsson Sixty Games is whatever I think that It sounds like they're pretty realistic about what this season. Both means and what their chances are contending, but do you see them? As perhaps surprise buyers, this winter is they are looking ahead to twenty twenty one I imagine that that's going to depend on any number of different factors including how much baseball we actually get. Get to play this year, but are they looking at that? As their real sort of start to their next to of contention? Yeah, I would say so, but I don't know if they're just gonNA open the Piggy Bank of this next off season I think they might start getting really aggressive season after that and by really aggressive. I don't think it's going to be really. Really aggressive like the days of the past with Mike Village I think it's going to be more of a a reasonable kind of kind of payroll increase. It's it's all going to come down to the fit with with free agency. Because that's kind of what they WANNA do is they want to plug holes in then if there's an opportunity to get one of those? Special young players and are not talking about like a monkey bedser. Bryce Harper deal Mike Trout, but a player that they think it'd be a difference maker I certainly think they they would entertain doing this offseason based on how this year goes because I, think we talk about the this starting pitchers, and then coming up while it, if say a couple of them make their debut, let's say three of them make their debut in their pretty successful. They're going to have a little bit more. More of a a knowledge base of what they're going to get next season in terms of how they acclimated themselves in the big leagues this year, therefore the public okay, we can be a little bit more aggressive in this regard. I definitely think that they're chomping at the bit to be aggressive. Because I mean it's been a long three years I mean there's been a lot of losing, and you know it hasn't really been pretty mean. Hundred fourteen losses is yeah. That's a lot. So I I think that they're ready to get going. I don't think it's going to be as much as you know. Starting Casey and Matt Manning out of the out of the gate the season, but it could be enough to make a sizeable free agent by in the off season I. Just think they're more likely to do it a season after that, because then you're really starting to get into the wheelhouse for perhaps you see the Riley Green and the wave search getting bigger in terms of winning big. The veterans that they did the import this past offseason season Cameron, May and Von Nova Jonathan scope and Zach Godly Cetera was that really reaction to the hundred fourteen losses I mean they got Torkelsson right? They beat out the orioles in what some people were calling tanking for Torkelsson, but yes, was that just so unpleasant to watch it as a a spectator experience, and for the people on the team and running the team that they just figured okay. We don't want to be quite that bad again. We better get some respectable players in here. Yeah, yeah, I think. He was I think it was ninety five percent that. Don't they could suck other season like it I. Don't think that was fair to the coaching staff. Yeah, they were gonNA plug as many spots as they could, and they did it with guys. Who again like we talk with reminded existed their major league system. They had no power last year. Absolutely zero power. Has. Grown Jonathan Scope, even even awesome remind I mean these guys have a load of Pop. So that's what they really wanted to address because they were pretty punchless group last season. I wanted to ask about Macau Cabrera because he was part of that problem at this stage in his career is there hope for some sort of bounceback, or is it mostly about maintaining and not falling farther than he has? Yeah I think there's definitely hope out actually kind of expected, and we'd talk about this every year, but after seeing him, I I went and watched him at a local batting. Batting cage like a couple of days before they before they were reported in, he looks great, and I think that there were some questions of whether or not he would you know. Keep up his great shape for March to July. Let's say because I mean three months in baseball. Time is like opposite, entire offseason and I think that at least since I've been covering the team in two thousand fifteen. This, is the best like Miguel. Cabrera mind and body wise that I've seen is kind of hands down and when I say that yet. We say this every year. It's because you know. I think he comes to camp every year in good shape, but it's kind of. It's compared against the way he looked at the end of the season and let's not forget the Miguel Cabrera's played through a lot of injuries in his career stuff that a lot of stuff and there's also in terms of his age thirty six thirty seven years old, so that's why took okay. He looks pretty good, but looking at him now like this is way way different than of the seasons and I think mentally when you put guys like scope in Cronin reminding a League veterans around him. Don't forget about Cameron. Maybe on the team I think he's GonNa. Pay Big dividends when you put those guys around Cabrera I think it makes him happier because it seems. Seems going to be more competitive, but also I think that after expecting him to turn the corner every single season I think I think he might have been a little bit embarrassed last year and I think he's kind of sick of just sitting at that level because he knows how good he is and I don't think people should forget that because we are talking about you know arguably the greatest right handed hitter of like this generation, and I mean the guy won the triple crown and I do think that he is not going to be hitting. You know thirty thirty five home runs, maybe not even twenty, five, hundred, hundred immortal miyoko going to get his. His hits and it would not shock me at all if he came out and even challenge for a batting title in two thousand twenty, because he's that good of a hitter and I think he's going to age much the way that cut Donas did in his career, so hope. Yeah. I mean the Tigers are hoping but kind of after seeing him in the way that he's been in early in camp. You're you're you're almost expecting. It is point so this is only attend gently. Tigers, related question, but one of the things we do on this show is set Scott Boris analogies and you gave us some material of last month when you talk to Boris about. About the Tigers rebuild, and how they should spend in free agency preferably on Boris Clients I, assume and the kicker that article was. It's like flowers and a vase. The flowers are just gonNa fall on the ground. If you don't have the vase to put them in, that's what free agency is. It's the vase of championships. Thank you very much for soliciting that quote. From the brain of Scott Boris, we talked about that for quite a while and tried to make sense of it in our heads. What did you think when you heard it? Straight from the agents mouth when you heard free agency is the as of championships in your transcribing that after the fact. All I can say is it sounded as beautiful as you would expect? Out of the blue just one personally, no, it's. It's always interesting when everybody. Crowds around Scott. At the general manager meetings at the winter meetings, and just a whole media, Hornets own, but yeah, he has, he has his way of coming up with these. These analogies doesn't playoff playoff Ville might have been my favorite. I think that was from a couple years ago. That's when the train started rolling I really liked playoff. And it sounded off the cuff to you I. Assume he did not come in with phase of championships as a prepared lion. I hope he didn't know it wasn't no yeah. That was somewhere halfway through. But I knew it when I could hear it when I. Wonder if he knows how much time we've spent dissecting his wish now. He's trolling us at this point, but really. Providing us with so, I can't complain. On that topic of getting quotes from people, you wrote a really interesting essay. I think for the BP annual this year. It was extensively tigers essay, although it was only kind of about the Tigers, it was sort of about the friction that you've had in capacity with Justin Verlander, but also just about the nature of the job and trading information and quid pro quos, and it was eye opening for me even as a writer, because I'm not a news breaker, and not covering a particular team or particular players so I I don't have to do all that much of. Of that, but it seems to be a a reality for a lot of people covering baseball and I wonder if for our listeners who haven't read that essay, you could pull back the curtain, a little and just kind of coach people on how to read things from media members whether it's tweets or stories how the sausage gets made essentially well. Essentially, it's interesting because I think the players the the easiest way to describe it to you is I think the players started getting a whiff of this and seeing how the sausage was made during the Labor negotiations recently in. In recent weeks, because they they're seeing where the scoops are coming from, and essentially I mean when you have a you know a relationship with any kind of stores whether it'd be the front office member at agent, a player anybody. It's kind of like hey, use scratch my back. I scratch yours, and that's how our relationship is built in. There's there's trust and there are certain things that potentially you know you. Keep off the record for this reason for that reason, but it's all about kind of building a relationship in again. I thought it was interesting in in the. The Labor negotiations because you see kind of at least this perspective in living in the bubble. Because you understand like, would you look at? Let's say a transaction. Okay, any single transaction and you say okay, we'll. What are the steps for that transaction? Where does information come from okay? And how did that play into the situation with the Labor agreements in terms of what side want to get what certain message out and I think it is very fascinating, because it's not only in sports, but it's also in politics, in which is kind of. It's the media in general but. It is, it's a you know and I think that some reporters everybody has like. Let's say a different flavor of it and how they deal with it, but it is. We live in a very gray area and again I think you can even go back to. I think you can even go back to right here. What legal like to bring it all full circle at the beginning? We're talking about the Cova, and how we announce Major League baseball teams are announcing you know tests to not in. It's all subjects you consent from the player okay, but there were teams who were finding different ways about it. When reporters asked the manager, there's they're confirming that player was absent, but not seeing any kind. Kind of reason, while that that puts US kind of weird position because we have you know there are ways to get information and relationships, and you don't really want to speculate because what if like, I said. Victoria's was out on maternity. Well, if we have hey, seven tigers are missing from camp at this time, everybody's going to say essentially like okay. Well. All those players test positive for Kobe, when really we don't know some of the. Reasons. Why so it is kind of fascinating when you dig deep into it and it's like when you're looking at the know this situation for HOW INFORMATION IT IS! Yeah, it's just a pretty much a juggling act in terms of like relationships and whatnot so to circle back to the twenty twenty team for one last question. Before we ask you for a record prediction, we've talked about some of the top prospects who might make an appearance we've talked about some of the offseason. Acquisitions talked about fulmer coming back from injury. Is there any one who's a holdover from the forty seven win team? That could take some sort of leap this year. Year that you're excited to see. You're interested to see what they do. Because that was I think part of the depressing experience of watching. This tigers was not only they bad right now, but how many of these guys are going to be on the next? Good Tigers team? How many of them have a real future? So? Is there anyone who's coming back? WHO's not a huge name that you think maybe has some more in the tank than they've shown thus far. Yeah I'd say one Guy Jacoby Jones. He's a guy that his physical tools have just been off the charts and he's just never been able to put it together and the. Have not been able to put it together yet. It's been a couple of injuries, but for the most part. He hasn't had a handle on really the plate approach. Okay in. He hasn't really found himself at the platelets. Say you know he's got power, but he's not a power hitter. He is not a singles hitter either. He's more of a guy. He needs to focus on getting on base I think if Jacoby Jones he's a guy that if he can get on Bet's with the kind of defensive ability, he brings to the table and is one of the best defensive center builders in the American League. If he gets on. creates havoc on the basis and I think he's going to be much much more. Let's say dynamic player because he has all the physical tools, he just needs a more mature played approach any needs to see the ball better. The blade he needs not should chase pigeons. Because once they get the book on your that you're chasing everything it's. It's really it's hard to kind of close it, so he. He needs to be more patients. Plate needs to look at the walk as his friend. Because more, he gets on base more productive players GonNa be obviously, but especially in his sense, because I think he's got. He's got pretty good speed. He's got a lot of athletic ability that that can be put to. To use if he gets on his all right, so we've been wrapping up by inflicting these predictions on our guests, so two things we WANNA know. How many games would the Tigers have won in an alternate universe where we have better response to the pandemic, and we actually get a full baseball season in so hundred sixty two game schedule. How many games with these? These tigers have won and given the sixty game schedule that we have now our hope to have how many games you foresee them winning this year season such a tough question because you're making me, do reverse math in the tigers and the way that we've I've I've been trained to think of it for the last three years is how many losses are they? gave us. I can. Say Hundred, sixty two game season, they would have win. Seventy and ninety two. Hundred Sixty right that'd be pretty good after forty seven. Yeah, okay, and then in his sixty game season. See I'm still I'm still trying to figure out what is going to be the best record and worst record but let's say. Twenty five and thirty five. Yeah, okay, Seventy win pace over a full season would be like a twenty six wind pace over sixty, so it's about right, I suppose. So. Let's hope we can all those sixty. Yes, we hope that to. All right, so you can find Anthony on twitter at his name Anthony Finnick ESPN. H and you can find his writing about the Tigers all season long. However long, the season is at the Detroit. Free Press. Thank you very much, Anthony. Thanks a lot of fun. Okay, that will do it for today. By the way I WanNa wish William Tested the OH, well. We didn't mention him by name in our previous episode when we talked about players testing positive and some of the testing issues that teams have encountered, but Williams says one of the many players who have tested positive, and of course that news cut us. US to the quick, it was reported that he is a symptomatic and has been placed in quarantine, so we hope all players who have contracted covid nineteen or will contract covid nineteen will make quick coverage, but Williams's near, and dear to our hearts wanted to send a special get well Williams message to him. You can't support effectively wild on Patriots by going to Patriots Dot. Dot? com slash effectively wild? The following five listeners have already done so if summed up and pledge their monthly support to help, keep the podcast going and get themselves access to some perks. Sam Klein Tyler Baber, Adam Crow Liz, Pinella and Doug Grand thinks while a few. You can turn our facebook group. It facebook.com/group/podcastbeyond wild you can rate review and subscribe to effectively wild on itunes. itunes and other podcast platforms. If you like the show, tell the world leave tunes review, you can contact me and meg and Sam via email at podcast, dot, com or paycheck ding system. If you are a supporter, thanks to Higgins for his editing assistance, you will back with one more non season preview episode before the end of the week, so we will talk to you. said. Nobody.

Yankees baseball Garrett Cole Tigers Aaron Boone Garrett Tanaka Zach Britton director Tampa Gary Sanchez Aaron Hicks Mike Ford Stan James Paxton Detroit free press Sam York writer Brett Gardner Lindsay Adler Clint Frazier
Effectively Wild Episode 1406: Taking a Stand

Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast

1:10:50 hr | 1 year ago

Effectively Wild Episode 1406: Taking a Stand

"The savage hooper other savage night at the club. Let's face it a source like a Sabine born to die. It's not a water someone loses blur and welcome to episode fourteen eighteen o six of effectively wild baseball podcasts from fan graphs presented by our Patriot supporters. I am Ben Lindberg of Ringer. I am joined by Meg Rally of Chris. Hello MIC. Hello effectively wild turned seven years old Thursday <music>. I realized that I did not I did not wish you a happy birthday anniversary yeah well. You're part of this now. It's tempers they to retroactively. which is I I did not? I don't know exactly how many episodes I picked up listening to effectively wild and it was I. I was not a day one listener but I was a fairly early adopter and sodas very cool and strange to be marking your anniversary with you on the program. I now co host yeah. I pity anyone who was day went listener because not so great those early days they're still there. They're still on the Internet. I haven't deleted them. Although part of me would like to but there are people who actually go back and listen to all of them from the start which is very dedicated and I salute them we all need wraps is thing we all have reps and then <hes> and then you know then we get better at stuff. It's great exactly all right well. Here's the seven more years I don't know about that. It gets kind of depressing. A log is GonNa go podcasts and usually the sweat had many opportunities to Ed and it just hasn't now it hasn't doesn't it's like a horror movie villain or or very kind pal which interpretation you WanNa Take Bryce Harper will be like halfway through his deal phillies win this so we have a lot to talk about today. I just figured I'd mentioned one thing. One of our listeners Ryan Morgan has been tracking this for a while the twins refusal to lose three games in a row. Oh which lasted until this week finally the beast was slated. The twins lost three games in a row and was the mets of all teams to put an end to that run ryan sent a really long enrich infect filled email. It was one of my favorite kinds ends of listener email that sort of starts with a question but then the listener just enters the question themself and then offers a whole lot of other information at the end. It's just like well. Here's all this information do with it what you will and I asked Ryan to let us know when when and if the twins finally did lose their third game in a row in season which you had to figure what happened at some point because as Ryan's research showed only one team has ever made it through a full season without losing three games in a row in that team was the one thousand nine hundred pirates which a it's nineteen ninety-two baseball the that was one hundred forty two game season so so the only teams that have gotten further. He says that this was their ninety fourth the game when they lost on Wednesday to the mets and he says since one thousand nine hundred only eight teams had their first three game losing streak later in the season they are the two thousand one mariners team that I imagined you watched quite a bit of and the nineteen one thousand nine hundred four giant the nineteen fifty four Yankees the nineteen twenty nine athletics the two thousand nine dodgers the nineteen twenty eight Yankees Nineteen twenty nine pirates and now the two thousand eighteen twins. That's pretty cool yeah. That's very cool that that Winston they just keep the gap has narrowed in central which I guess yeah. It's a good thing it's a good thing at the gap is narrow because then you know would suggest that another team might be playing Major League baseball in the central that exciting but they're so real good snow Roca team. It's pretty cool so the first of our topics we have three or four topics today. We'll see what we get to but the first one is the Aaron Boone blow up that has made rounds this week and has really kind of been reputation making moment for Aaron Boone this is on t shirts everywhere and we don't usually curse on this podcast but Aaron Boone curse and we're just reporting the curses that he cursed so Aaron Boone as everyone surely knows now was yelling at Rookie Umpire Brennan Miller who's calls he took issue with and he said my guys are fucking savages in that fucking box right and you're having a piece of shit start into this game. He said I feel bad for you but fucking get better and it continued he said tighten it up right now than he did the clapping thing at the end where he said tighten this shit up with claps in between everyone it was really of a masterful rant and I've kind of flip flopped like five times on what I think of this I have and of the public reaction to it because in the moment I enjoyed it. I think the same way that I enjoyed the the acid and the Jackpot rant and we rarely get to see these kind of behind the scenes interactions this was a hot mic situation and and we hear all the time obviously about umpires feeling managers and managers yelling at Umpires and you hear the stories and I've enlisted the help of lip readers in the past to try to get some insight into what was said but we don't usually get it with the kind of clarity and so. I don't know if all rents are like this but I'm guessing not I'm guessing that Aaron Boone just had away with words in this moments so he's someone who I think should have had a pretty solid reputation already as a manager because he's managed good teams thus far in his couple of seasons as manager. I know that there were perhaps flaws in the ways that he managed in the playoffs last year but the way that he has managed the Yankees to success this year despite all the injuries that they have suffered pretty impressive but I don't know that he was beloved by Yankees fans or or anyone particularly because he's kind of like a modern manager who doesn't really lose his cool at least publicly and he just always sort of says the political inoffensive thing and that's maybe why they wanted him because he gets along with people and players like him and this is now his slogan. This is the moment when Aaron Boone just became a hero to Yankees fans. Because of course they like seeing this sort of fire on the other hand. He really was berated this rookie occupier at when he said I feel bad for you that was like a kind of a condescending limelight yeah like he felt bad for how bad Brennan Miller was that his job but I just legitimately felt bad because again. I've got around in circles about this many times because on the one hand umpires know that they're in for this when they become umpires I mean this is one of the oldest traditions in the game if anything umpires put up with less abuse now than they used to but it's still pretty bad but you know that going in so it's almost like I don't know if you were like a wrestling he'll or something and you were complaining about. People yelling at you or booing you. It's like that's the job on the other hand. Maybe maybe it shouldn't be the job gets to this point and when it's a rookie umpire like other empires probably would just not have put up with this and would have ejected him right away or maybe they would have escalated and it could have got even worse so in that sense it meyer how he handled it but like maybe this should not be how we interact with people in the workplace. I get one risks being kind of a spoilsport right. Everyone's fun to could be like Bud. Shouldn't we think umpire here but moments like this are very stark reminder. That baseball is a workplace. It's like an office super weird office and a really cool office and you know like you said I think umpires kind of know that they are in for some version of this at some point in their umpiring career and you know. I don't think that I don't know if it I would make a difference. I guess we can talk about that too. He did not appear to be calling particularly. <hes> sterling strikes on when you look at the Berkshire out of it. It's like Oh this is. This isn't the very best I've ever seen. Stop the best known we've ever seen and I don't know him actually being eating somewhat inconsistent his zone makes it better or worse 'cause. I guess it was deserved but also I don't know that we ever want this kind. You've behavior to carry with the language of late well He. He was in for it because he wrote called a bad zone. I just it was it was a lot it was still hot and I get why it's funny and I I appreciate that but not only to fans but I imagined to that clubhouse. This probably meant a great deal to a Yankees team. That was obviously frustrated. I mean Garner was engaged in some interpretive dance with his bat in the dugout yet. That's a whole other topic that we can talk about you know he he learned a lesson about throwing his helmet and it potentially ricocheting and hitting him in the face and he had some choreography to express his frustration this time around and what's so has that sidetrack us but I think like Lindsay Adler tweeted that it was so weird that that was his first inclination to like I like Jim the bet repeatedly into the bat rack and that the less weird weird part of the thing then he started trying to literally raise the roof of the dugout with the bat as if he was like trying to get a bat out of the like the attic or like the leaves off the gutter something what was that it looked unhinged and may have been a bit. It was very strange. I don't even have a thing to compare it to. There's I can't i. I've never seen anything like that. I've never seen anything like it so that was very odd so I imagined that like what he did. It in in one sense was very good workplace behavior. We've all had bosses. We all have bosses and it's it's nice when your boss stands up for you and sort of has your back in defence you to I don't know in this case Umpire and I'm sure that it sent a very clear message to the Yankees players about how he wasn't. I'm GonNa take it anymore and you don't have to either and so I like it up the SORTA display which in a sense like that's the manager's job to his team and his team motivated so right he was just doing what he's supposed to do in a way right so in that sense this is a very good bit of H._r.. On the other hand it is terrible way to treat another human being horrible H._R.. Violation another way. Where regular company can you imagine Agean if if he is an accountant and a junior other accountant I don't know what the the umpiring equivalent of accountant is here but another office guy does something goofy? And he walks down the row cubicles past the water cooler under the fluorescent lights and he starts yelling about how his guys are just like the they're savages with the balance sheet which by the way we're just sound insane someone a senior to him would pull him aside and say hey so we should talk about <hes> The litigious society that we live in and the way that we treat other human beings in the it's a counselling situation so it's a very strange. It's just a really weird thing like the empire is a rookie. The you know the poor guy has to hear how Aaron Boone who's about to have to leave his workplace for part of the a day feels bad for him. I just I've gone round and round on it also because I think it is not a way that we want to celebrate people treating other people put also very good tv so I I don't know I don't WanNa be overly fussy about these things but I also think that we probably should have a conversation about the kind of behavior that we incentivize versus not like it's a good thing that he's a level headed guy and can have a a conversation that doesn't escalate to swearing or <hes> you know a catchphrase. It's GonNa go on a teacher. It's good that there are means of conflict resolution that don't come waited with all of that other stuff which is so yucky and makes you feel badly case like people are GonNa remember that about that guy. I don't remember that. I don't even remember his name. You've already you told me once. I don't remember it but I'm a remember this next time I see him behind home plate. That's terrible so I don't think it's great but it's also wonderful. I Dunno complicated better bet it if it were like Joe Western or someone Brennan Miller and Joe West than passive experienced so you know sometime someone with twenty years as an appellate say just someone who's been through this before and knows the score and there's isn't such an imbalance in terms of I dunno seniority like I mean I guess technically it's not a power imbalanced but kind of of is he umpires R.. I Aaron Boone's a public figure so I think there are acutely aware aware of their place in all of this like they understand you know they have a lot of power <hes> on the field and they exercise it and sometimes they exercise it in ways that we think are sort of sillier arbitrary but they I think are very acutely aware of sort of where they fall on the hierarchy of people who fans are there to see and they are very low on that hierarchy in fact they are probably at the very bottom of that hierarchy and I think that they are and they don't all do this exceptionally well. Some of them are better at managing the the interoffice politics than others just like getting other managers were better at that than others but I think that they know like you know you gotTa Kinda <unk> you gotTa figure out a way to get get along with your co workers as a rookie indifference to the manager of the Yankees like he clearly didn't look like he felt he could say something or pushback or scream at Boonen in in kind maybe because he knew his own wasn't very good so it felts particularly uncomfortable because you could tell he was he wasn't GonNa say anything until Boone was done saying peace and then he was gonna run him but in the meantime he was just GonNa have sit there and listen to this guy be rate him. Johnny achieved professional dreams which like we should have a conversation about the kind of person who's like. I really want to be a professional umpire because that's that's a psychology. I don't personally understand but is it. One that is necessarily early. <hes> deserving of a profanity laced tirade at work so yes yeah. He's young looking how I mean. I don't know how old he is but he looks very fresh-faced and and yet like if Aaron Boone we're yelling at one of his players who had made a mistake like that would be condemned like that sort of thing has been done by many managers in the rest and that's I think maybe part of why the Yankees moved on from Joe Girardi at least the perception was that he didn't get along along that well with young players and you hear old school players say that like managers today are coddling players and you have to show them tough love and all of that but there have definitely been cases where managers are veterans. It's almost like a hazing thing or it's just coming down so hard that you're not teaching. You're just demoralizing and this I mean in this situation. Brennan Miller was the one who had the power to kick Aaron Buddha the game and eventually belatedly he did but Aaron Boone is someone who's been baseball his whole life he was a player he is a manager. He's like a third generation player and Brennan Miller's new to the game and I think I've actually seen evidence that rookie empires and call up Umpires pyres are actually better than the others than the veterans the more senior ones when it comes to calling balls and strikes typically or they're more in line with the rulebook zone. That's being emphasized these days but maybe not on this day but I don't know I mean it's an entertainment product. Baseball is and there are spectators and so I do understand that this has been something that people have enjoyed about baseball for as long as there's been baseball seeing managerial rants there's so many it classic rants that we remember and sometimes they're victimless and don directed rants but often there is an umpire at the other end of it or there is a reporter on the other end of it who bearing the brunt of that and that is unpleasant so I don't know he'll tell personal ejaz out so it's felt so directed. He wasn't mad at your bed at your. I'm sorry that you're so bad so it just spouts the first time I watched it. I was like wow and then I watched it and I was like oh no. I know that we should be excited about this. I I also think that I'm sure that Aaron Boone did not expect this to get out and great spec this to be over the Internet and so maybe even he fills babs about this speaking publicly aired on the one hand it seems to have done wonders for his reputation so he may be conflicted about that but but you probably didn't want this to be a matter of public record setting to the fire at the time so that changes things too like there's an expectation I think usually that it's a a one on one private conversation. Even if you're yelling and screaming in front of thousands of people it usually stays between those people in the players within earshot and so this is unusual right and I think that like we can probably whatever we think of the particulars of this the target audience for that rant. Dan was the dugout. It was not the rest of us like I doubt strongly that he you know he might feel he. He probably feels a little a little embarrassed today. You know it's like when you're fighting with someone new you care about and you get a really good Zinger Iran but then later you just feel kind of Yucky about it 'cause just doing that's not the point of this wrote so I think you're probably right that he he may be wishes that we had not been able to get such clear audio. This I all right well complicated. I don't know are we overly hand-wringing. Are we not. I don't know I enjoyed it in the moment so I can't claim that <hes> I condemn this from the start. Something and I don't know that we should but it's just things I've been thinking about in these as I've been processing my reaction and the reaction to it. It's just a very weird workplace. It's very very strange workplace all right so so fan graphs wrapped up its annual trade value rankings this week done by Kelly mcdaniel this year and I imagine that you edited and oversaw this and I have not had a chance to read all myself yet but I wonder what you have gleaned from it or or what surprised you or will link to it of course spoil the whole thing but if there's anything that stood out let us know I think that I was surprised and so was Kylie by the way that some executives around the game talked about Mike Trout so trout came in third in this exercise at various points over the last couple of years. You know for quite quite a long run. Actually it was easily the most valuable trade chip in baseball <hes> he was surpassed this year by Fernando Totti's junior at to an Ronaldo Kunitz at one and you know I remember I think U.. N. Sam talked about Trout Steel L. and sort of the difficulty even before that extension was reached of of actually being able to trade for trout and this has been you know thing that Kylie end dave before him sort of grappled with over the course of this exercise which is that on the one hand yes. He is the most valuable trade chip empires in baseball but he also feels impossible to actually trade for and I think that we kind of knew that that existed as a continuing conversation but it still Mike Trout route and he's still the best player in baseball and he's a tricky player to sort of project for because he really doesn't have any historical cops he doesn't. He's sort of peerless <hes> in his Development Altman is player so far so understanding what his aging curve is GonNa be <unk> open question right we we don't really know and I think that Kylie was surprised that there were executives in this was not a universally held opinion by any means but there were executives who sort of saw him as entre alike untradable because no team would be willing to take on the four hundred million dollar contract and relinquish top prospects and you can sorta see some of the logic behind that and the difficulty that one might have in and giving up so much but you still get Mike Trout at the other end of that if it were to trade for him so I think we were kind of surprised by how resolute some executives were in their Sir understanding in handling of him even as we acknowledged that he he like many many players on this list are effectively not movable pieces right <unk>. There is unlikely to be a big trade at the deadline for for any of these guys so I think I was surprised by that. Wander Franco's placement on the list was maybe not surprising but I think was one that <hes> both Kylie and the folks within baseball who he talked to had some difficulty he sort of properly gauging. He's the only player on this list who has not yet debuted which is unsurprising but as a as an eighteen year old Hughes prospect value I think is being thought of as sort of equalling or one or potentially eclipsing vibe our junior you could argue for him being too low but also to high because he has not played a single inning of major league baseball yet so just how people were thinking about him. I think was interesting. I think executives. Executives generally thought that this year's list was deeper than some prior years had been both in terms of the quality on the top fifty but then on the sort of you know fifty one through however deep you WanNa go guys who arguably could have made their way up onto this list if we had sort of thought about it even a little bit differently so I don't those are the big takeaways. It's it's a funny exercise because I think it does help us to understand how people within the game think about these things even if these traits are very unlikely to actually take place and that's always a useful I think for for us and for readers but at the end of the day you know not allow these guys are likely going to move <hes> if any of them end up moving moving so it's just kind of a funny. It's a funny thing. I'm glad we do it. I think the people learn stuff from it but it is sort of an odd exercise when you think about it in those terms like how many of these guys I guess we should go back and look we should go back and look and see how many of them actually ended up moving yeah. I was saying that to you earlier this week. It's like a fun debate to have. It's always a popular feature but I'd never know exactly what to make of it. I guess it's subjective. I mean you could do it in a purely objective sense ask if you just did like the future projection resin salaries and surplus values you could just do a purely stat based list and maybe it wouldn't be totally different. I'm sure there would be a lot of agreement there but it's more more than that it's talking to people in the game to find out how players are perceived but yes most of these guys don't get traded which is good but we don't get any way to verify like Yep. This was right to rank this guy a tenth and set of seventeen or something okay so it's a it's a strange sort of exercise but it's fun yeah. It's fun. We will not long after we are done. Recording Kylie I recorded a episode of Fan Graphs audio where we went through this in and in some pretty great detail so folks are interested in hearing directly from Kylie about how he justified not ranking your favorite player who he hates personally. You should check that out. I am interested in that will link to it all right so our next topic I think is another development in the Atlantic league this week which was very fascinating to us. Think so semi talked about the new rule that was put in place that Ah Sam pointed out is not stealing first base technically that could actually scored as it walk. It looks like maybe but it's really just a pass baller wild pitch. A abolished is not caught that the better can decide to advance. It's too I on if he wants to risk it and we kind of I don't know we we didn't say this is something m._l._b.. Should do but we were kind of interested in how it works out and there's a lot of strategy that's involved in deciding. Do I WANNA run here sure and there are implications for catchers who now have to pay close attention on every pitch and if there aren't runners on base even if it wouldn't be so costly in a normal situation to have a passed ball now you could potentially allow base runner anytime you do it anyway. In our discussion we just assumed that players would follow this rule that they would take advantage of it when they could and that did happen for the first time and I mentioned it in an Intro to recent episode and linked to the video there was a player I think on the blue crabs who did take for space on a bullet went all the way back stop and wife continued on but there are other players evidently who are not so pleased about this rule and who are actually taking a stand and standing still so there's another video that I will linked to that. We've watched and this was what was this the Somerset Patriots I think yes so there is a batter who was in the backs and there was a pass ball or wild pitch it went to the backstop and he just stood still he did not make a move toward first base even though it looked like he could made it if he wanted to and the announcer mentioned that the entire Somerset Team Liam had come to the top step of the dugout and was applauding this better for not running for refusing to recognize this new rule and so clearly this was not just a sentiment that the single batter felt it's something that all or most of the teams shared and one would have to imagine that probably a lot of the week onto bounced in the dirt and it gets away from Gonzales goes all the way to the backstop and Darren Ford is not taking off First Bee's and the Patriots are applauding him in their dugout down the first base line how about that of Ford pointed to his chest and he must have said something along the lines of I'm not GonNa do that. Oh That's interesting patriots at the top step of their dugout applauding Darren for David Kubiak took off his hat and gave the hat tip towards Ford as the two two is muscled its way into shallow Centerfield and it drops in for this is something that when I said to send that we should definitely have a round table at some point where we talked to some Atlantic League players about these rules. I was interested in just hearing what they think. The effects of the rules are but also this is something that we I think have touched on maybe but the fact is like these players are part of this laboratory experiment. They're kind of guinea pigs in this weird baseball testing ground and and they didn't ask to be part of this experiment. Maybe they opted in. Maybe they knew about it before they signed but many of them didn't many of them have been in this league for years and suddenly the ground is shifting under them and clearly there are players who you're upset about this and the inmates are revolting. I love this with my whole heart week or two ago. I had eric logging on Fan graphs audio and we were talking about the the Atlantic League all-star game which you and I talked about an I pose a question to him because there is a long they're sort of a delay of several seconds. I think it ended up being like eight or ten seconds between an autozone zones strike call that ended up being a called strike three and the batter kind of waited and the umpire waited and then you know he had to hear the entire Ballpark Camera Boo Rah evil grumble grumble and I posed the question to Eric of how long you as an umpire if there was a delay would wait before you just said screw this. I am an umpire I know I I watched that pitch. I know that's a baller strike. I'm just GONNA call it and <HES> I. I don't know what the procedure is for that sort of Nevada's like actual rebellion. I think of a more profound type. I don't know if the rule requires them to take. I I imagine if it would that he would have been sent there. Are you can decide or not but <hes> so it's it's a little bit different because he's acting in violation of the rule but I think it's great great like I don't know that we we can allow it to persist for terribly long because I think that when the rules of baseball stop operating quite the way that they're supposed to that we realize how much of it is just made up and then we get uncomfortable in the we don't WanNa watch it anymore so I think that for the sport to operate greatly the rules are very very important not only for it playing the way it should be for confidence in thing is like an enterprise in thing we spend money on but I just I loved. I loved the certainty in his stance standing in the box use I I'm. I'm not moving. You could tell it is a yellow thought bubble sailor nope I'm going to and he he singled so you know same same and ended up being the same root <hes> next pitch I think but you know it did not strike me and I don't know the better so I might be underestimating him. It did not strike me as the stance of a guy who's like no. I have a strategy it struck me as the stance of a guy said I have drawn a line in the sand about my understanding of baseball and I will not cross facet yeah which kind of brought me back to the snowman stompers summer the Salmon I took over that team as we were working in the book because this is something that we thought about a lot as we were trying to implement these changes and strategies tactics and trying to get the team to do things it was not I mean we had anticipated some resistance and pushback and we figured that would be part of the story of the season but I think it was stronger than we had anticipated anticipated and we were probably worse at navigating it than we had hoped and so you ended up with this conflict and things that we wanted to do that we weren't able to do at least early in the season with the manager that we were working with at that time and this is sort of similar because you can't just come in and say that this is how it's going to be and this is what you should do because the players are part of this and they feel some ownership of this and so when for instance when Sam and I wanted to do certain shifts or something or try other strategies we figured that if we couldn't persuade the players to do it and get them excited about doing it then a there would be tension and conflict flicked and they wouldn't want us around but be like if they weren't enthusiastic participants in these experiments than they probably wouldn't work that well because they would kinda half acid or they just wouldn't do it or it wouldn't be a true test of whether these were good ideas or not because assuming that they're good strategies also presupposes that the players will be invested in them and won't be doing their best at all times and that's kind of the pitfall potentially of the Atlantic League experiment is that we're trying to see whether these rule changes would be good or bad for baseball but I guess that also takes for granted that players are going to go along with them. Although maybe this is something that you test these things to see if players will go along with them and clear with the answer's no her at least know for some of them at maybe it's because they just did a whole bunch of stuff at once which was something that I was kind of critical of just because it seemed like they were just just you know the whole bucket of ideas they were just overturning it and everything was changing at the same time and I said I think on the West episode like when you're asking players to change how they do pickoff moves or you know this running to first base thing like these are players who've been playing their whole lives and they're professionals and they're really good and then suddenly you're changing all these sort of fundamental rules. It's a lot to keep track of even if you are willing to and there's muscle memory involved in habits and everything but clearly these players are just like okay. We've had enough you can give us the track men strike zone. If you want to you can change this change that but if we're going to be you know dictating where fielder stand and we're GONNA be dictating how pitchers we're supposed to do pickoffs in a different way and also this thing and clearly some players are just like this is making a mockery of the game and I'm not going to go along with it so I don't know whether it's just that like hey. I'm trying to do a job here and. And you are messing with my career because this could be affecting my performance of all this stuff is in my head like these guys are in the Atlantic League. That's the highest level in D. League. That's like you know triple A. Caliber baseball or something kind of close to that there are many ex major leaguers some future major leaguers and certainly minor leaguers and so. That's you want to have this testing ground. I think it's a good thing to be able to do that but on the other hand you don't want it like sabotage anyone's career who's just trying to go about the business and suddenly they are part of this experiment that they didn't design on. I suppose it was somewhat predictable that you know the the one rule where there was a certain amount of discretion which I imagine engine when the rules being drafted was meant to be afforded to the team writ large right not the individual like I imagine that when they wrote this rule they assumed that there would be a guy with a or gal or someone standing at the talk of the dugout steps with a run expectancy table saying okay in this situation. It's to our benefit to automatically have a guy on first but we'd rather chance given the game situation and have you hit and see what we can get Riley guy imagine that was what they had in mind that someone would be employing some sort of sabermetrics logic and deciding what what's what but I like very much that this guy was like no I have agency in this moment and it's spend too much and I'm going to make my stand here because this is the one place I can right. There's not discretion in a lot of these other rules. They have to go along with them so I guess it's not terribly surprising that this would be the place where that what happened but I do think it is probably a good lesson in one. I wonder if will kind of make its way through all the other results that that Major League Baseball's looking at one it's looking at this as a laboratory setting of being important to hugh pace these things into perhaps employ some amount of incremental as into the way that we alter the game structure especially when they are changes that clearly at least from the players perspective seem very fundamental to the way that they have previously Asli played baseball right. Some of these changes are not small so I I wonder I wonder if they'll learn that lesson. I'm a little nervous that they will but I wonder if they will right. I wonder whether they're walked back. Any of the changes ages the season or next season or I don't know how widespread this is. I don't know whether other players have done this subsequently whether they just needed a champion to show that it could be done and now everyone is emboldened to do it on the other. They're handling what if you're trying to win the game right there must be there must be some players who just really want to win and the people working for that team WanNa win and so I mean at that level winning is not quite as important as it is with most of the baseball spot we still people are competitors and someone's giving you a free base and you're entitled to take it the maybe there will be players will be annoyed if their teammates don't do it. I don't know so there could be some disharmony and in that sense too but France yeah I mean it's something that Salmon. I found frustrating that summer when we want to change things and players are manager where like no just on the grounds that this is the way it's always been done and who are you to tell us that we should try something in different like we we wanted to try to improve things or test things that might work a little bit better and we're disappointed at times when there was kind of a knee jerk resistance to that but we also were pretty careful all about trying to introduce things very slowly and carefully and this is kind of the opposite of that this is just everything at once and players were just tapping in this league for years in many cases basis and then suddenly they find it. It looks different of a sudden so I understand that feeling I suppose one. I think that it you know people are resistant to change because change makes us uncomfortable. I think the context in which change change enters our lives tends to have a pretty profound impact on our impression of it so you guys face some some pushback in resistance and you were trying to do a thing to like build a more winning baseball all team raid that is a ladder. That's a collaborative sort of common purpose one that everyone is there for at least in part even if people are individually also trying to advance their careers and maybe get out of India ball or what have you and even there it was tricky because humans are stubborn and were skeptical of thing change being to our benefit rate. I think there's an assumption that change comes with loss sometimes and these changes have a far less clear cut. We are here to help you win a baseball game or advance your career and so it's not surprising to me that they would meet even more resistance than say your typical you know front office type coming down saying saying hey we've run the numbers and in this in this situation you should run. I get why that would be met with even greater resistance because it isn't even in a collaborative change of mindset in service service of trying to win baseball games. You're trying to do something very different in some cases. You're trying to make baseball shorter which as a player I could imagine sometimes really yeah. You know if you're if you're on the giants or the mets today and you just played sixteen sixteen innings last night. You're probably like yeah sure is great but generally you're like no. Let's keep playing baseball because it's good when I play baseball so I get why there would be a a skepticism in a discomfort and <hes> when you find when you find find a small window through which you can shout now. We're GONNA do it. You'RE GONNA shout now right yeah. It's it's very explicitly like these players are being used essentially to generate data so that that the players were or leagues can benefit from that information say yet. They're not really getting anything out of it other than I guess the fact that there's more data on them which may be can be shared with teams. Maybe would make them more attractive to teams teams in some cases but yeah for the most part. It's purely it's it's kind of just extracting something from them and they for the most part didn't really opt into this so yeah that that's an important distinction. I think yeah it's <hes> I don't think that anyone enjoys the idea of being experimented upon even if you are told in advance that it's going to happen and I think that if I were a player in that situation I bill are our need. No stinking deal not steal a I. I'd say it just like that. 'cause I'm an old timing person actually to I really I'm well. I he'll be fascinated to see if the revolt spreads if they overturned the rules if it gets to that point or if it just becomes something that's like technically on the books but it's just totally ignored because no one will do it whether it'll be like <music>. Are you like a scab if you do do it breaking ranks become a labor issue like I mean I guess it already. It is already it would if there is any union or anything here. That's why we need the elliptically because these players are not union rate. You can just do this but that's why M._l._B.. has come up with this solution but yeah this is the sort of thing that that that collective representation protects you from eight anyway. It's it's a weird social experiment that we are seeing play out here. Do you think that will ever have if we have a rebel zone. Do you think that will ever have an umpire who goes rogue and just starts calling their own zone. I don't know how explicit the I guess we have. You know we have like Game Day. We have brooks. We have all sorts of things of demonstrate us. What the where a pitch was landing so we could probably discern places where maybe a an ped- had gone off script but I they will they will they come out and say we're going to have an scandal? I'm very excited yeah. There is I mean umpires have the right to dispute the calls from Chapman at least in the Atlantic League right now and I think in the first game they use the track men so in it went off line for half inning so the empire then had to step in and make those calls and then there is an objection the former pitcher frank viola was ejected for arguing balls and strikes even though he was arguing with track ackman except technically he wasn't he really he was arguing with the empire for not overruling track men. He thought that the zone was mis calibrated or something which may be it was but that's a tough situation to be as an empire if on the one hand you're being told that a machine is taking over this part of your job at you should defer to it on the other hand. Maybe the machine doesn't work so well sometimes and so then it's also on you to step up in those times and decide when the technology is calibrated which is kind of a tough thing to do and a lot to ask them yeah especially if you're like not in the mindset where I'm calling every pitch suddenly like the machine didn't work for a pitch eh or it was obviously way off on a pitch but it's like at a certain point. You're just not going to be paying as close attention. 'cause you're not going to be expected to make that call. Even if you're telling yourself like okay stay in the game here because you never know maybe track then we'll go haywire on this pitch and I'll have to make the call if thousands of times you don't have to make the call and then suddenly one time you do. It's not like you're going to be really prepared to make that call as well as you would have so well and just to go back I two different version of the same kind of you know. Tirade directed at Umpires that we talked about at the top when when that late call happened in the all-star game the whole ballpark just booed they they were very upset and it's not the sky's falling either that the call was laid to or that the call was something they didn't enjoy and I watched it and I was going to be so mean to these guys were in being so mean and it is not going to matter that they're not making a decision anymore. It just seems terrible. We're just setting them up to be yelled at with no authority at all awful well at least Aaron Boone wasn't yelling at this particular. Issue is very true all right so one last thing I think we should talk about I wrote about a few trends in the game. Probably some trends that we've talked about before on the show but have now reached the point where they've crossed crossed a certain threshold of frequency so the idea here was that I was going to be looking at things that at least one team is now doing half the time that used to be much rare and you know it used to be unheard of it used to be very much in the minority but now at least someone is doing it the majority of the time and therefore we can envision a future where everyone is doing it that often because that's often how things work in baseball so when does something and is. Is the first to do it and maybe works that team has success and then suddenly everyone's doing it and it can be very fast and sometimes it's just like you know the strikeout leaders in one season you break a record and the next season your record gets broken because that's changing every year but sometimes it's like the opener which just fell out of this guy last season and now is kind of in a lot of places so I wrote about the shift first of all all because the shift has now gotten to the point where there are teams shifting on more than half of pitches which is kind of incredible when you think of like at that point. It's not a shift like the standard shift is like the standard positioning his the shift at that point. It's like the standard alignment is now sometimes the the nonstandard alignment so the Astros have crossed that fifty percent threshold and the dodgers are right behind them. The Orioles who are are now run by ex Astra's people there right there. The twins are pretty close so there are four teams now over forty percent and the astros are over fifty percent and we've been talking about the increase in the shift for close to a decade now and there was one year where we thought maybe the shift had peaked because teams didn't shift more it was from twenty sixteen to twenty seventeen which is very curious because we thought that might be peak shift but now the rate has really dramatically quickly increased in the most recent couple seasons so I still don't know what the impact of the shift is exactly. It's it's really hard to say because I was talking to a few front office people people on these teams that are shifting all the time and asking them so why don't we see a change in the league wide batting average on balls place still like it used to be that it was still a minority of plays and you figured well. Maybe it just washes out or something but league-wide now. It's a quarter of the pitches at team is shifting just like your your standard over shift in the Infield and so you'd think that would be enough for to manifest itself on the League wide level and yet Babba is I think to ninety eight this year just never strays very far from three hundred and now everyone I talked to you in front. Offices was like well. We're sure that we're doing this right and our models are correct and we're implementing it right and it's saving US runs and and if you talk to sports info solutions they say that there have been what I think two hundred thirty something runs saved or prevented from the shift this year. It's a lot of runs and yet the sleek white numbers versus. You would expect to be affected by this. Just have not been so everyone I spoke to in front office is just kind of shrugged and up their hands and said it's working for us but I don't really know why it's having a picker effectively wide heard bucks. I guess I liked it. They're still so mysteries but it is deeply strange that we cannot that it is is somehow proven itself to be kind of immune from a growing sample sizes not how hi this is supposed to work yeah. If you drill down you can definitely see the impact ensures like lefties on pulled. grounders are doing worse than they've ever done down like twenty five points of waited on base average average or something compared to two thousand eight when there were very few shifts and lefties on opposite field grounders are doing way way better like the the opposite field grounder will buffer lefties this year's like four twenty nine or something something like one hundred thirty points from pre shifts and that's just because that hole is opened up and so if you do hit it over there you're much more likely to get a single out of it but there are many more pulled grounders than there are grounders hit the other way and so it seems like that sort of evens out and we just tend up with three hundred Bab every year so the best explanations I have is that may be the bank would be a lot higher than it is if not for the shift May A. B.. Assure kind of camouflaging change like I don't know hitters are getting stronger. They may be hitting the ball harder. Maybe there's so many strikeouts now that maybe there's just less week contact so if you make any kind of contact it's just hard contact so like maybe the bad that would have increased if not for the shift and so it's sort of artificially suppressed and then tells a possible that they're just like changes in defenders or changes in the way that the played appearances or distributed maybe guys who are really hurt by the shift don't get as much playing time and so it doesn't reflect itself in that way or like maybe not as good defenders or used at those positions because you figure you can compensate compensate for the shift anyway show their things like that that I think other changes could possibly account for this in a way that would be consistent with the shift working and yet also not changing these league-wide numbers but it really strange French yeah. I think that I would probably be in terms of what of that set of possible. Explanations makes the most intuitive sense I think I just don't know if it would be enough paddle balls for it to really matter I guess the idea of there being worst defenders who are benefiting generally from sort of improved positioning but still are prone to some goofiness in the fields might it'd be it. That's the one that I would be the most sort of ready to be persuaded by but it's still strikes me as odd that that would be sufficient to explain it right. It's so in which likely means that it has to be a combination of the things that you're describing because any one of them on their own doesn't seem like it would be significant enough to really do the work we need it to right yeah and I talked to someone with the Orioles who said that they constantly look at whether it's working or not in that they have the most to lose if this is just a mistake that everyone is making but he said he thinks it's very unlikely and and I think it's very unlikely to that all of these teams with all. These <music> are people who are studying. This could be just wrong. I just I don't I know that Russell Carlton wrote some things for B._p.. About how maybe there's a factor that we don't account for which is the pitchers don't throw as many strikes when the heat is on but I think even he found that that affected diminished in recent seasons and so and again. We're just talking about balls in play here so I I do think that it's probably working in so I talked about each of these trends like a Willett. Will it take over what we see the rest of the league catch up to with the leaders doing right now and I have to assume probably yes with with the shift it just keeps going up and up and if the Astros and the dodgers and the Orioles and the twins are deciding that it makes sense to shift forty fifty percent of the time I'm guessing we're going to get there like not. Every team has the same incentive to and it depends on your defenders in your pitchers and everything but only to a certain extent and so I would think that this will oh keep going up and up as eight teams and players are exposed to this in the minors they maybe have coaching staffs that are more willing to implement it and you also see opponents doing it constantly which makes exited easier sell like the the Orioles told me and they're shifting twice as often as they did last year but they said you know we're in the division with the rays and the Yankees and they shift a lot and so our players see that happening and it's not like a foreign concept to them now in the way it was when I started doing this much more. You know six years ago so have to assume I'm resisting making a snarky joke about it being surprising that the orioles care about Babbitt at all shuttering how many home runs their pitching staff Afghan up. I guess I just snark on it anyway. Sorry yeah well that actually that that sort of speaks to the conclusion about whether this is good or bad for baseball which is how analyzed these things it's got to be bad in the sense that if it really is depressing offense and taking away lots of singles and base runners and action and making it a more homerun reliant game. I guess that's bad or at least some people consider that bad but it just it seems like a secondary problem a eight because I think the bigger problem for hitters just not being able to make contact at all because pitchers are so good and then also it just seems like an overreaction to the bandit or say that we need to do away with it just because there are still counters counters that can be made and you can bunt and you can hit the ball in the air and you can go the other way and those things are easier said than done but I haven't completely given up on hitters finding some way to adjust to this. If it really is working working so well yeah. I I think of the ones that you have highlighted here. The shift does not I don't. I don't think that the shift bothers me because I think it is one. Even though is quite different. It is difficult to adjust you do not mean to say that it is easy to adjust you does imply certain kind of offense over another. I do think it's one where we are likely to see some sort of adjustment made by hitters that sort of contracts part of ASPIC noted like the Babba isn't actually that different the bullpen stuff. I'm the most worried about what are the most concerned of what this listening that people can read your should we be glad or sad and they should do that but what what what are these are you in terms of your personal enjoyment of baseball the most yeah so the next one was about the bullpen workloads and we have seen teams now. Go fifty percent or more of their innings to relievers is now that is with openers and that sort of skews things somewhat but it was the ray is doing that for the first time last year. They're still doing it and now the angels this year are also more than fifty percent of their innings going to relievers and the rays have been very effective with the starters who are making starts for them. The angels not so much and obviously they've had injuries and and that was even before the loss of tower skaggs so this may be wasn't so much the plan although they've been using openers a lot too but I talked to billy up lower about this for the article and a couple of other things and you know he was saying there just less rigid roles these days and all that matters is can you get out and how many outs can you get and that he thinks that these distinctions between starters and relievers will continue to blur but as I've written before in as I've said on the podcast I am anti-this generally like pro this as a strategy that teams should probably be doing if they WANNA win but anti this for spectators and for fans because I do Kinda like seeing starters go deep into games or not having to try to remember a million relievers on every team and each of them comes in and I have to figure out who this guy is now as opposed to having the starting pitcher as that protagonist of the game who is just there the whole time and you get to see him very his repertoire is he goes through the lineup. A couple of times and then pitch count matters and that's something to pay attention to and you see hitters adjusts to him and he just a hitters and just narrative Li. I like that and miss that so it's sort of a problem I think like I think that <hes> you know we did not talk about thing that was very near and dear to my heart this week. which which was crisp attic was carrying no hitter? That's great I it is it isn't aesthetic that I enjoy very much. I think that it makes the dominant reliever look even more it helps you to appreciate the the sort of special skill set that those individuals are bringing to the game it just allows for a greater range of stories and outcomes and styles that is really compelling and so yeah this is the one of your five that I'm bummed out by the most I don't know we'll see their rules coming to kind of eliminate Louise and then rules rules coming about how long pitchers have to stay down when they are options so maybe there will be a little less shuffling and churn in bullpens which would be good but I don't see this going away. I don't know that we'll get to fifty fifty anytime soon but this has increased a lot lately so it's obviously a long term trend toward relievers but it's picked up a lot lately and probably not the best thing and and if you don't like strike outs and velocity and everything then this is part of that whole process so and that was one of the other things I identified is faster fest balls and the increase in that the way that that festivals have gotten faster every year that has slowed but it still. It's going slowly so the average fastball this year for seamer is ninety three point seven miles per hour which is just slightly up from last year and now we've got to the point where there are teams that are throwing more than half of their four seamers at ninety ninety five miles per hour or above which is kind of amazing. I think the the Yankees have done that. The Astros have done that an arguing that the mets this year have thrown more than sixty percent of their four seamers ninety five or faster and that's with th- Jason Vargas not ever doing that so that is so it's kind of incredible because ninety five that used to be like whoa hard thrower mid nineties right now for some teams most fastballs are more most foresee mors sh that fast so at this point like if you don't touch triple digits don't tweet at me. Don't even send you the gift like not that impressed so remember the article Sam wrote about Flames Fox broadcasts that can I pick something. That'll make same feel embarrassed. I probably read that piece like once every six months yeah it's great great so he showed how Fox broadcasts when a pitcher throws ninety five they show the phlegm icon onto did not this is a fast pitch and as he found they actually started at ninety six and then they went back down to ninety five even though pitchers reach that regularly I checked they're still flames on ninety five half hour pitches on Fox baseball broadcasts podcasts even though at this point it's like not at all a rarity but you really have to adjust your mental understanding of what a fast fast ball is at this point and I don't know I I said this is maybe a thing to to slightly beat down on just because a it's contributing to all the other trends that some people were mentor we worry about but I think it's it's fun when a guy comes along and like challenges what we think of as the peak velocity like glad Jordan Hicks came along and it was like Oh are we going to get someone who tops Chapman here that was fun for a while until of course Hicks plowed his elbow which may happen when you throw that lasted so that's kind of the town site to all of this but but that Chapman record is still standing from when he according to Pitch F x touch. What was it one zero five point? I think I WANNA say that was way back in two thousand ten. That's stood for a long time so I don't know if we're going to get to a point where anyone beats that I mean I guess I'd I'd bet on that happening some day but not routinely I think there are just some physical limits that maybe we can't transcend or not without injury at least but I would expect ninety five's to become more common and for the Jason Vargas if the world to become even less common because we know there are a lot of people out there with that velocity and velocity is everything but it's a lot yeah so on baseball to all the same yeah well. The next trend that I identified was the fewer fastballs trend to which seems like a paradox because we're talking about fastballs being faster than ever and yet people or throwing fewer of them. It's mostly sinkers that people were throwing fewer of and this year the angels again they have broken that seal. They've crossed that threshold they have had only forty seven point seven percent of their pitches. This year have been fastballs which is sort of amazing and that's lumping together four seamers sinkers and cutters. They don't throw any cutters. I mean off speed pitches are supposed to be secondary pitches. That's what they're called but for the angels they've been primary pitches fastball secondaries. I talked to <unk> about this too. Well had him and he said it's sort of an organizational emphasis like they figure that they should tell minor leaguers to work on their other pitches because you're not gonNA develop those pitches as well if you're throwing sixty five fastballs and only all need seventeen ciders or something in a a start so if you wanna get better at those pitches maybe you should be throwing the more and so it's kind of a player development initiative for them but then also at the major league level. It's you know we'd note that sinkers. Anchors just seem to be not that effective and rather pitches are better at least in this environment and so were seeing fewer and fewer fastballs and I don't know that we'll get to fifty fifty but we're definitely getting away from that old dogma about fastball fastball. I establish your fastball at the festival so that's bad in the sense that you know more strikeouts something we're saying about everything but also breaking balls are kind of more fun entertaining especially on TV Yeah I. I don't mind the Swan I mean I don't know that I I I mine strikeouts insofar as they the they have a knock on effect on other aspects of the game that I'm maybe a little less excited about but I don't I don't mind strikeouts accounts all that much. I think that they're fun to watch N.. You know a good breaking balls just delightful it all like <hes> watching Jose variously makes me feel stuff so <hes> I am okay with this. This trend and I think that you could end up seeing some really cool. I don't know that this will necessarily resonate with sturdier casual fan but you know as teams get smarter about how they like help guys to sequencer pitches and think about <unk> pitch distribution at you just watching that strategy playout is I think engaging and interesting in its own right <hes> even if it is maybe not something that everyone is super keen on so I done this when I don't think in the last thing was just first pitch swinging which is happening a lot more often these days especially on pitches in the strike zone it used to be that pitchers could kinda count on free strikes in certain situations yeah everyone was sort of settling in and they just WanNa see a pitch and not swing and even if the pitcher just Kinda laid went in there he get a free strike often and hitters have sort of gotten wise to that and also also with the ball behaving the way it is pays off more often for hitters to swing and so on oh-oh-oh pitches on three Oh pitches hitters are swinging more often than ever before even relative to on the other counts and the one that kind of interests me. The most is Sam has written before and I think Jeff is also written about how the first pitch of every game is a fastball like almost without fail you can count on each pitcher. Just throw a fastball first pitch of the game and often those fast balls are strikes and yet hitters don't swing pitches for the most part and now they are now. They're swinging at least like a third of pitches in the strike zone first pitches of the Game A._M.. And it it used to be a lot fewer than that within trackable memory and that's kind of interesting too. It's it's always whenever you have some really predictable behavior in sports. There's probably some way to take advantage inch of that but like hitters just kind of getting their bearings at that point to and maybe you don't feel ready to swing and yet if someone's just GonNa Throw Me Pol there and you don't WanNa Fall Behind in the count these days because once you get to two strikes all the weapons that in this sense do you think that the reason they didn't swing historically was in part because they didn't want to make the first out of the game on the first pitch like with a ground ball or a fly out yeah that could be part of it too and there was in the past there is more of an emphasis on taking pitches at working pitchers and get to the bullpen like. I don't know if we WANNA do that. Stay away from them. Yeah it seems like just lissette passivity. Your patients are taking pitches probably less valuable than used to be and so now it's when you get a good pitch to hit it made as well offer at it even if it's in these situations where historically people haven't swung but anyway that's generally a good thing I guess means maybe more plate appearances will end faster and games will be quicker in there will be more action enlists waiting around so that it doesn't seem like a bad thing you ended on a high now. I did all right. I guess yes we can end this podcast that way too short okay so we will talk next week all right that will do it for today. Thanks everyone for listening this week. By the way after we spoke Aaron Boone was suspended for one game by Major League Baseball and subjected kicked into an undisclosed fine for his quote inappropriate actions including contact with the home plate umpire. You can buy my book the M._V._p.. Machine how baseball's new nonconformists are using data to build better players. If you like it please leave us a positive review somewhere someone could see it on Amazon and good reads as many of you have can support this podcast on Patriot by going to patriot dot com slash effectively wild the following five listeners have already signed up in pledge some small monthly amount through help. Keep the podcast going beyond the seven earmark and to get access to some perks are Patriot supporters Phil Thomas Fred Navarette Harrison Riley Michael Mayer and Spencer Cold Rich. Thanks to all of you you can join our facebook group at facebook dot com slash group slash effectively wild and you can rate in review and subscribe to effectively wild on itunes and other podcasts platforms keep your questions and comments for me and meg and Sam who will be back next week coming via email at podcast the graphs dot com or via pitch messaging system. If your supporter thanks excellent Higgins for his editing assistance. We hope you have a wonderful weekend and people back in a few early next week blackout a Mickey.

baseball Aaron Boone Yankees mets Atlantic league N. Sam Kylie I Brennan Miller dodgers Ryan Morgan Patriots Ben Lindberg Bryce Harper phillies Meg Rally Ed Lindsay Adler Mike Trout Winston
Effectively Wild Episode 1616: MLBs Other Cheating Problem

Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast

1:24:01 hr | 2 months ago

Effectively Wild Episode 1616: MLBs Other Cheating Problem

"It is taste you. Yes since locum episode sixteen sixteen effectively wild fan graphs baseball podcast uvira patriot supporters. I'm meg rally fan grasp and join us always by ben lemberg of the ring. Then how are you. I'm doing pretty well. How are you pretty. Well got some huge and heartening news today fun to talk about. We haven't had a lot of that lately. We woke up to or at least became aware of the news. Friday morning that the marlins had hired him as their general manager. The first woman to be a general manager in the majors or for a men's team i guess in any of the major sports and also the second gen of asian descent in mlb. This is huge news. Yeah it's you know. It's just a very exciting thing to how do i want to put this. It is very easy to know. The thing is like literally possible that there are many many qualified women who work in baseball perhaps non as qualified as as kim in terms of her longevity in the sport the roles that she's occupied both on the team side and with the league the sort of resolve and resiliency of her interest in being general manager. It is it is one thing to know that it is literally possible for a woman to be the general manager of a major league baseball team and it is quite another to see. It literally happened and to know that that barrier has been broken to know that a woman is gonna sit in that seat. As you mentioned an asian american woman someone who has had to deal with the dueling challenges of being a woman in this industry and a person of color in this industry and having to navigate that and being so qualified for so long now i was messaging with lindsay adler. This morning about it you know. She's a baseball lifer. I know that there was talk. In the days leading up to this announcement that the marlins were thinking out of the box when it came to their jam higher. And i understand sort of the the sentiment of that from people who maybe aren't thinking they're choosing their words too carefully because she will literally be the first woman to occupy that role but in a lot of ways like a higher doesn't come more conventional than is like the person should have gotten to stab along in years ago time ago on it. So it's it's exciting in a lot of different ways. I i hope that this will not sound snarky. But like everybody's going to have to learn some new names now right everyone's going to have to familiarise themselves with some new talent because i feel like every time we've had this conversation about the woman. Gm be like kim's name is so readily available because again she has been working in the game for such a long time and she has been so close in the past. But not quite there. And we're all gonna are gonna have to learn some new names hope so. Yeah i mean. We've talked about this. Many times on the podcast. I remember. jeff. Ny had christina. Carl on may be two and a half years ago when she wrote about when this might happen and just a week ago we were talking to jen wolf and he brought up the prospect of when this might happen and what it would mean and it could happen at any point during that time long before like coming was there and to could have been hired by anyone and yet until it actually happened it just felt like you never knew when or if it would happen like obviously some day but it needed someone to just finally do it already and you look at her experience in the game and she was in the white sox front office for years in the nineties. She was a yankees assistant. Gm back in the late nineties early. Two thousands were. I assume she probably got to know. Derek jeter a little bit and then she was the dodgers assistant. Gm for years and then she's been working as a high ranking executives in the commissioner's office for almost a decade now and she has interviewed for so many gm jobs over the years. And you know some of those interviews. I'm sure were good faith interviews and legitimate and she was genuinely considered. But you have to think that some of them were not or she would have been hired by now because she was listed as a candidate. For really i mean about twenty years. Now i think is at least when people started talking about her as a very qualified candidate and it wasn't clear whether she still wanted the job you know whether she had been discouraged by all those interviews that didn't lead to a hiring or whether she decided she didn't want it or what but it scrape the this happened finally and let's hope that it opens the doors for you know as jen was talking about last week. They're still a pipeline problem here. And so you know there aren't as many women as you would like. Who have the experience in baseball. That qiming does but it just took one finally to kind of break down the door. What's hope and now you can't describe it as out of the box. Not that you should have anyway but even if you were inclined to do that you know even that now is erased because it has happened finally. Yeah i think that hurts. Sort of desire to occupy. The role was oyster of an uncomfortable. Part of that conversation for me because on the one hand i think that when you have the opportunity to sorta step forward not that there's an obligation but i think that people are aware of who they can bring with them when they take on big scary mantles and no one's had before but i was always a little uncomfortable because people would be like well it should be and it's like well. Does kim want that job like i. Kim has a pretty great job like she was a very senior person in the league office. And so you know not that that he wasn't in the right place. But i'm like you know we want. We want opportunity to be genuine and real and for our understanding of it to be broad and for a lot of different kinds of people all the different kinds of people who like and play and care about baseball to have opportunities in all of the different roles that the league has to offer and some of them are gonna be big senior teams. I'd roles and some of them are going to be in the league office. And so i'm so happy for her and i'm happy we can put that part of it to rest in that. We can just kind of like you said like this. This is our part of the box now. Right and that's very exciting. The last couple days of vacation when twitter has sent me a notification that there is news for me it has always been pat. It is that every time and this. This was not bad news and it is. It is very and you know that team had a. I think a weird twenty twenty as like a very charitable way of describing the ups and downs of the marlins season. But that is a an exciting baseball team. They're coming off of a postseason appearance that no one really had them pegged for. They have exciting young talent and it just feels it feels very ripe for possibility. And that's such a cool thing to be able to say about the first woman to occupy that role like this is just. It feels optimistic in a way that we the how. It's kind of thin on the ground. A lot of the time in the baseball news. So it's very cool. And i you know i. It may feel emotional. But it's just very exciting and it's really a treat in this hard year to have a piece of news like that that you can just feel unabashedly. Glad about an. I'm so excited to see the direction that she stares organization in and what she's able to do with a roster and the team that she builds and you know the opportunities that her hiring opens up for other women in the game and other represented people in the game. It's just it's a good day ben. Yeah it is and you know the fact that it took this long to happen. I don't think you can really crow about it and you know not that miss should be slapping itself on the back and saying you know good job. We did it. It took so long. I guess you know. I would have preferred that. It had happened much sooner in any sport. But i guess i'm happy. That baseball was the one to finally do. It would have been nice if it had happened. Decades ago but baseball has had such a shoddy track record when it comes to diversity in front office hiring you know whether it's gender or racial or you name it so it's kind of nice. I suppose you know when it finally happened. It was a a baseball team. That did it even though it took far too on so as he said i. I think it's pretty enviable situation to walk into a team. That just made it back to the playoffs under the strangest circumstances but still and had a winning record and has a good base of young talent. You know there's something to build on there so i think it's a a pretty good situation in. Yeah let's hope it's the start of something rather than an isolated event but it's it's really nice. It's just too long overdue but it happened. Yeah i think that you're right. I don't think that baseball should pat itself back too much. But i think we all get to be just unabashedly just for her and for what this means and you know. I don't wanna be a debbie downer. I think it does we. We have to remain vigilant. Like one is not enough. One is not enough but today we just got to be excited and then the next time there's a gm opening we can have new names and weaken. I think that there's a lot to be said for being able to how i want to put this like. Expect better right and it's a lot easier to expect better when the first one of the thing has been accomplished and now we get to expect better and we get to demand better and that's really exciting to there's optimism in that also so who tabin. All of the other news has been bad though. They're like news for you. I'm like look. I'm on vacation and we still have to be engaged with the world but also i am tired. Please stop telling me this news for me. This news for me is the bomber. Well speaking of that. We will do an interview today with sarah from the athletic and former major league pitcher david art sma about the foreign substance problem in baseball about pitchers cheating using sticky stuff that they're not supposed to be using and this has been you know frequently in the news. I think this year but also has been be more in the news this week because trevor bauer won the national league cy young award and he has been connected to a extremely suspicious spikes in his spin rate and of course he has been an outspoken critic of substance. Use in the past. Two from all appearances has finally embraced it himself to some effect so we will talk to david about his experience with it. Personally you know about how many people are using this stuff in baseball. I wrote about this back in july. You know just a good follow up on it. So i think it's sort of a scandal waiting to happen potentially in something that now that we have good measurements of spin rates. We can actually see what the impact of this is and it's so widespread that it's an interesting question and problem had his. Mlb so we will get to that very soon just a couple of other things. I meant to mention there was another. Gm hiring a fire. Less notable. i suppose than kim ang's but perriman asean was hired as the angels. Gm he was formerly the braves assistant gm and this was mostly interesting to me. I think because from everything. I've heard that is just not as desirable at gm job as most others just because already marino is a big time. Mettler he does what you don't want owners to do which is come in and dictate baseball decisions and so. I don't know whether that affected the candidates that the angels could attract here. A new in. Ken rosenthal's report about this. He mentioned that the angels reached out to some of the game's top current executives to be rebuffed and rosenthal mentioned. Chris antonetti with cleveland and raised. Gm eric neander. And as gm david forced among the executives that the angels were interested in and did not reciprocate that interest. All of them seem to be in find situations and maybe they're happy with the situation. So that may or may not have anything to do with the angels situation specifically. But that is i. Think one of those challenging positions of course we would like to see someone get mike trout back to the playoffs at some point. But i think that's one of those cases where everyone looks around that. Some of the cheapskate spending that the angels have done with their minor leaguers and their scouts and then also meddling and i think that sort of scares people off but this is the fourth consecutive first-time gem that marino has hired since he took over as owner. Not counting. guess. Jerry dipoto who had been an interim gm previously and maybe that is because reno wants to retain more control. And so you have to recruit people who have not had the gm job before and are happy to do it just for the title or maybe will not expect to have as much authority or you know could be a coincidence. I don't know but that seems like a a concern that people probably had about that position which is not to say that manasseh is not qualified or a good candidate because he's been in the game for years and has been mentioned as a perspective. Gm plenty of times before. I know that it will be surprising that i'm about to say this. 'cause rich people are famous for their self reflection but if i were already marino i'd be like hey. My baseball team employs mike trout. And not very many people wanna work for me. what's that about. The fact of the matter is the very wealthy. People are often insulated from consequences and so election not always our strongest suit. Who's to say but yeah it is. We spent part of last week talking about the surprising lack of process in chicago. I don't think that you could say the same for the angels. It looked very early. They were going to hire dave dombrowski and then they seem to talk to a great many people. I think what the candidate list was up to fifteen holding back. Yeah so. I guess good job having a process. You guys but yeah. I think that there probably is something to the idea that newer gm's or going to be malleable in some way or at least less likely to push back and it just mitro chose to stay there so i don't wanna be overly we don't have to parachute in a rescue. The guy like he made a he made a choice. he's an adult. He was given a a big contract and decided he wanted to stay in l. a. And try to help that team win a world series but i hope that this regime has a better success than the last one because you know. The lack of trout in october is spat for us. Yup it's bad for us. Also we were informed of an unwritten rules controversy this week listener. Scott in arkansas. I was not aware of this but this is an interesting one. There is an unwritten rules hubbub in and pb and japanese baseball and Scott linked us to a story here on websites or news so a read the headline b. players sparks controversy by not letting a retiring pitcher strike him out. So that's that's the controversy here a touching tribute to a player's career or insult to the sport. In major league baseball pitchers often go out on a bittersweet note as a testament to having given it all. They had great sleigh cassisi Nolan ryan both had extremely disappointing. Final starts even cy. Young himself gave up eight hits to his last eight batters it sad but in a weak- because the pitcher can rest assured that they contributed as much to their team as they possibly could before the end nippon professional baseball though sometimes does things a little differently when a pitcher is set to retire. There is an unwritten rule that their last batters will allow strikeouts so that the pitcher can go out on a high note since this usually happens at the end of the season and in cases where the outcome is in critical. It usually doesn't spark much controversy however on november tenth. The hundred tigers faced off against the yomiuri giants in what was to be hunching pitcher. Qgc fuji cows final appearance of his career at the top of the ninth inning. Who chico struck out. The first two giants batters the final batter of fujiko career was shinsuke. Gone obu who after letting one go by. Went ahead and crank the next pitch into right field where it was easily and unceremoniously picked off for the last out of the inning although it was a fairly normal end to an inning commentator and former hunchine. Great monkey cockapoo lamented. Oh he was so close to i. Guess shigenobu didn't know referring to the possibility that the batter didn't know that he was supposed to let fujikawa struck him out. It's unclear why she can ogooh connected with the ball. Perhaps he just didn't care about the custom he may have also attempted to fake miss. Only to accidentally hit the ball sakamoto. Who was fujiko as i strike out of. The inning is a star player for the giants and was brought. In as a pinch hitter some are presuming. This is because he has the skills to appear to try and hit the ball while striking out. Regardless of his true intentions this led to debate online over the sportsmanship of what shigenobu did with people coming down on all sides of the issue and the giants were leading for nothing late in that game. So there wasn't much chance of tigers. Come back in case you were wondering and this was the second to last game of the season for each team and the giants had already clinched the only centrally position in the japan series. So this is an interesting one. I think because Yeah this you know some analogs. I think sometimes you will see like You know a pitcher will groove one for a batter and his lasted bad. Or you know like. The cal ripken. All-star game example. Maybe this was more common in the past and denny maclaine grouped one for mickey mantle at the end of his career in nineteen sixty eight as a tribute to mantle. Because he had been one of maclean's favorite players. But in that case mclean was actually reprimanded. Commissioner spike eckert sentinel letter scolding him but the intentional strikeout to end a great pitchers career. I mean there's probably precedent to that. But i don't think it's widespread like just to to give some context. You're like Has pitched in n. p. p. for seventeen years she has a two point. Oh wait career. Era they're almost two hundred fifty saves like he's been a great reliever sub may remember him from his brief time in the majors with the cubs and the rangers as well. But i just. I looked back to see like mariano. Rivera's final appearance. And they were both Great relievers both in their forties at that point and rivera his final outing went line out. Groundout groundout pop fly so no strikeouts intentional or otherwise. And i don't remember anyone caring about that. But this is a thing that you're just supposed to sorta with on purpose. And i asked a friend of the pad kazuto yamazaki of baseball prospectus. About this and he said yes. It's fairly common for pitchers. When they are facing retiring hitter they required to pipe fastball. Down the middle. So that's the opposite. And he sent me a video of takashi saito last game and in this case he was facing toru hosakawa. And it's like the most obvious looking strikeout you've ever seen like assist i'll link to the video See it. it's just totally transparent. Like he is just waving wildly. It doesn't look like he's even trying to hit the ball and as that article mentioned. It's probably pretty tough to make a convincing attempt at looking like you're trying to make contact if you're really not but this is a tradition that we definitely don't have to the same extent in the states and so. The says become a controversy in japan. I'm trying to decide what i would want. Because like there's the you know the institutional expectation of what you do in that moment in the the behavior and all that. But i'm trying to think about what i would want if i were in his shoes as the pitcher i think i. I think that i really hate being patronized. And so i i would just want you either. Need to really sell it. If you're going to strike out on purpose or like to see give it the old college. Try like you've especially if you have that long of a career like you've had ups and downs nothing about the final. You know the final hitter you pitch to is going to change your legacy in the game right. It doesn't diminish the accomplishment. It's not like you're like. I had seventeen great years but now i got a you know a little bloop single. Fema so forget it. I have to pitch ten more. So that i can overcome the slate that was done to me. I don't know. I think i'd want them to to try. And like that's going be the tradition than like have him take three pills looking. You know. I guess it could be more than that depending on how how how. Well you got it that day but it just seems that's surprising to me but i also have never been a professional athlete so maybe my my preference for you know someone being deferential to me in that moment would be different than i am anticipating. That's very possible. Yeah and it's a different culture. It just you know a respect for seniority and and your elders. And maybe that's a nice thing if it's just a showing deference if it's a sign of appreciation for that player's career i suppose that's perfectly fine and you know fujikawa at this point is no longer a very effective pitcher. I think the issue always forty years old and didn't have a great year. And yeah i think if it were me i would feel like either. Sell it so well. That i don't realize that you're just a you know rolling over for me in this fine rate at that or or try because yeah like you know if i if i get out if i get a strike out great like i mean you know presumably. He's he's gonna finish the game one way or another so he's gonna get an out somehow and so it just seems to me like you know if you've been pitching for twenty years at this point it's not like you know it's going to taint the whole thing like here. Your last guy doesn't strike out or gets a hit or something. I think i would get over that just fine so well. Yes presumably. if you're retiring you have some understanding of where your skills lie relative their peak right. You've you've done that soul-searching and decided it's time for me to hang it up. You know under any number of factors. That can kind of complicate that how much it's your decision versus. Not but like. You're probably aware it's time to be done so you're probably pretty honest but yeah i mean i don't wanna like judge the cultural practices of of another place because the smitten berry normal but it is. It is such a funny. I wonder how this would interact with some of the other. Unwritten rules that we have in states where it to become the norm here. 'cause i think like you said like there's there is some precedent for kinna letting someone go out on a high note. We we've seen that before and there's nothing as an aside like if you decide to do that. I would read it as patronizing if you if you didn't celebrate. Billy that's a nice thought to say. Hey i you know how about one more for the record books as you as you walk out the door you know. That's that's a nice thing. Stand to be a little kinder and is the stakes are so low right if it doesn't matter then why not. Maybe i've changed my mind ben. I mean players always have something at stake even if it's just their earning potential or their stats or something. But i don't know for me. I feel like saying something you know. Everyone coming to the top step in applauding tipping their cap. Or whatever you know. Putting a nice message on the scoreboard. All that would plenty for me. I think but no if this is the tradition then. I guess it's nice in a sense. Although i wouldn't want someone to be kilifi for not take going along with it really so i guess we have enough unwritten rules over here. I'm kind of happy we don't have to worry about this one too but and then like you know what if the person might retire. But you don't know for sure. What if he has an announced that hill retired than you have to do it just case he retires. I don't know it just seems complicated. That seems that seems very fraught. Because what if you're like you should retire. I'm gonna let you strike me out and then you might have. You might have been very rude. unintentional offence. there's a lot of their some men such stakes. It's hard to do your job when other people are watching all right and Couple quick things did you see the ryan to para news. Came across your your notification. I just felt so. I just felt so terrible. Yes speaking of the respect or or lack thereof. I guess rent to para was. I don't know if he was getting mocked but newbie campbell. Who was an dp voter and voted for ryan to para he was Maybe catching some flack on twitter because right para got vote. He got to less place vote. Which means that he has appoint forever and ever ran to para has Let's see yet eighteen. Th place tie for eighteenth place finish in. mvp voting. And i think this is pretty harmless. But it's just sort of amusing to me. This happened because hummel evidently when you vote. You're said a drop down menu and para was pretty close to trade her and humble meant to vote for trai turner who is a few spots down and inadvertently voted for rent para instead so read to para the undistinguished cubs reliever who has been fine perfectly. Fine here. yeah he was fine line through twenty see headed sub four era. He struck out a bunch of guys find year nine would have said anything negative about rent to para until he got an mvp vote and so now forever and ever whenever we get some question about like. What's the strangest mvp vote anyone's ever gotten. Nor i mean this wouldn't even be at the top of the list for like worst season to garner at him. But definitely one of the the more you had no but kind of unremarkable season out of nowhere name to end up there and future generations will probably wonder what the heck happened here right. It's like what we look back at votes ripped decades ago like what were they thinking and We know what it was but the future generations unless they do a deep dive. They will not immediately understand what happened here. So i have to thanks to say the first of which is so. I've only in my brief tenure in the w. have only had one vote my first year in the organization i had. I had an aol. Rookie of the year vote. That was the year that you're an alvarez one al rookie of the year unanimously. It was easy to vote but you. You know you vote for fewer down ballot candidates when it's rookie of the year then when it's mvp. But my memory. And i hope that. I'm not miss remembering this is that i had to. I had to type in the name and you have to type in the last name and the only time you include a first initial as if they're guys with the same name and that was a year where i had given an. I can't recall now where in in my ballot placed him but gave brandon lau a down ballot vote and was very nervous to do it properly because nate low was also eligible and i was worried that would get mixed up and then i would have voted for nate low for third place for aol. Rookie of the year and people have been like. That's weird mag. Why did you do that and really all you're ever wanting when you're voting for these things is for no one to remember what you did. Anyone remember what you did at all because if you did you probably did something funky but i remember thinking if i mess this up i will make my peace with it and so i think that that bridge appear should've have been allowed to think that someone thought he was. Mvp worthy. I feel so bad for him. He is as an aside. This is very funny. The top three most searched players on our jose bray ryan to pair and then freddie freeman. I was one of those people searching for rent. I feel bad like 'cause like you said he's not the worst. He's not the worst guy to get a tenth place. Mvp vote hardly the worst guy to get that and and somebody was so embarrassed that they felt the need to clarify. No i'm goofing. Who messed up rather than thinking he was. Mvp worthy you understand why they had to clarify because people say oh. It was the favouritism or something. That i mean rick. Hummel covers the cardinals a cubs player. So it's not like a homer vote or something but people were still perplexed understand of the but yeah to bedford to pair because you know maybe there is a moment where he saw his name there and you thought well his in his news for you was about himself and it was great. Yeah wow french. The sixth trending topic where i am on twitter. And i was like what happened and then i got nervous and i thought something had happened to him and then i saw what it was. I laughed very hard. And i feel bad because you know. He had that moment than faded. Pretty harmless mistake akkas trai. Turner would have been happy to an additional vote. Really it's a pretty frivolous and sort of fun story. So in fact pair quote tweeted to an espn story with the headline chicago cubs right to payroll winds. Mvp vote thanks to miss click and para said one. Man's mistake is another man's claim to an nl mvp vote. Thanks rick honored by the vote with a cry laugh emoji so clearly he was having fun with it. And lastly i guess. Jay jaffe did a post that i will link to that. I just wanted to point people toward he surveyed the fan graphs. Jeff sullivan style on. How fan crest. Readers felt about the twenty twenty rules changes and the votes are in. And they're not super surprising. I guess i don't know that they would reflect the majority of the baseball following populace but perhaps not surprising for fan crafts readers. They are like three to one in favor of universal d. h. which i'm pretty happy to see but like more than three to one against keeping the extra innings rule. So sam's enthusiasm for that rule not mirrored in the rest of the fan crafts readership and Also almost seventy thirty against seven inning games in doubleheaders. So in fact people are more against the extra innings runner than seven inning doubleheaders which surprised me a little bit and people are pretty split on the three better minimum. That's just such a nothing rule really that seems like people don't care a whole lot about that and expanded playoffs. Wise only five percent of people thought. Yes let's keep it the way it was in twenty twenty and two than you know. Not many people wanted seven teams per league about one in four said okay. What's expanded but to sixteen per league and then like twenty three percent thoughts leave it at five teams per league with the best of three wildcard series and almost forty percent said leave it at five teams with wild card game so as it was before this year and i guess the playoffs is what readers were most passionate about so they care the most about that particular thing not staying so i. I think i am mostly in line with the readership here. I think i am too ben. I just had the strangest sensation. You told me about a thing that was graphs. And i didn't know you didn't read it yet probably. Yeah i've been doing a very good job ben of working and that has meant not really engaging with the site because once you do the one thing it's like give us a cookie but really messed up and i get a cookie so that was cool. That's a that's a good idea that jaded that j. Those smart yeah. There is good stuff this week. More people should do polling projects. I'm saying this now. And i will say to the to my colleagues like directly because that's useful but you know people people don't pull enough. They should pull more. 'cause it's really easy easy content. Yes crowdsourced love. Yeah yeah so. The site survived. You took a vacation. And i'm sure your your absence was felt but you can take a vacation and allowed. The world will keep spinning. So that's good to know. I guess yeah it is. It is unsurprising. Because dylan and john taylor hoped editing to do good work and i work with smart people who are good stuff but it is so nice to see a confirmed. It's like you know you know the sun's up there even if you don't see it rise but sometimes you'll like that was cool to confirm free. Yeah all right. And i have a closing step last for you here before we get to our guests up this is from matt who sent this question in september and finally got an answer to it this week so i will share here. Matt said it occurred to me while watching last night's giant's game that this is the tenth season in which brandon crawford and brandon belt had been the starting shortstop and first baseman respectively for the giants. That means that they have recorded a lot of six three putouts together. I assume they would be high on the list of most ever recorded as a pair. But i have no idea how to look that up. I also can't think off the top. My head of any famously long lived shortstop first baseman couples to check crawford and belt against you have any ideas on how i could figure out. How many put outs those to have recorded. And where. They rank on the all time list so yet. The brandon's have been in that infield since twenty eleven. They have racked up a lot of put outs. And i guest bill. Russell to steve garvey from the dodgers longest running infield. I thought that might be above. And sam guest. Tony was very and new. Gehrig of the zahra was mostly a second baseman. But they overlapped for a long time so those were the two combos that we thought of. But i got an answer this week from adema our listener with a retro sheet database. Who by the way is in the market for data based research positions. Especially in baseball. If you're looking for anyone he's been very helpful with our stat. Last year's just finishing up his master's in statistics and he was able to give me an answer here all the play by play data. That's available going back to nineteen eighteen not quite complete for those earlier years so those players will be slightly undercounted and samina were roughly on the money there. We came close but we missed the very top combination. The most put outs ever. In retrospect i feel like i maybe should have thought of it. And if you wanna pause podcast per second so you can brainstorm feel free but brandon belt and brandon crawford have completed fifteen hundred eighty putouts together six three put apps. That's a lot. That is the thirty fourth most of all time and of course there are fewer balls in play fewer grounders now than there used to be although there are also more games and it is also the most by far of any active combo. This is at any position. You have to go all the way down to kris. Bryant and anthony rizzo they are the next highest than they were at like eight hundred two entering this year. So they're a little over. Half as many combined. Put out as the brandon so no one even in the neighborhood but if you look at the six three putouts list only the brandon's are at thirteenth most of all time but the overall list all combinations of positions number one craig biggio jeff bagwell. In retrospect seems pretty obvious. Yeah ben. I can't believe you didn't get that. I want to make you not feel bad. Because i was like a clearly tip of your tongue. Yeah they had three thousand fifty six putouts together. That is of put outs. They were for three put out of course and then was airy gehrig. Were next at twenty nine ten russell and garvey at twenty seven eighty two. And i'll read the rest of the top ten ryan sandberg and mark grace pee wee reese and go hodges dick mcauliffe and norm cash chase utley and ryan howard runs. Say and steve garvey. So garvey's on their twice. Ron santo and banks and davey lopes and steve garvey. So that dodgers longest running in fields like all adverse. Were were on there but Yeah it's interesting in some other. Recent ones brandon phillips. And joey votto were next. Jimmy rollins and ryan howard brooks robertson. Powell cal ripken eddie. Murray and on and on. So i will put the spreadsheet online so you can all look position by position and admire adams handiwork here so six three. The leader was bill. Russell steve garvey and five three. The leader was run. Say and steve. Garvey four three was bijou and bagwell two three. The leader is your ear. Molina and albert pool halls. Oh sure yeah and one three put out. So you're you're pitcher. To first base is freddie fitzsimmons to bill terry and You're three one put out. Is willie mccovey two one mayor. Shell so yeah. Good good data here. I will Put the whole online so you can peruse it at your leisure and remember some guys after you had retired. How many days do you think it would take you to go. I haven't done that thing in a while. Shift it must be second nature brandon brandon. I wonder when that combo will end his His belt a free agent. This just signed through two thousand twenty one. So not yet. So the brandon's will write again and they can keep climbing the leaderboards because they're both signed through two thousand twenty one all right so we will take a quick break. And we'll be right back with you know. Sarah and david art sma to top out furnace substances. Do screen shows so much is about how about time. Last fall is about time well official baseball rules. Six point two states that the pitcher may not apply a foreign substance of any kind to the ball or have on his person were in his possession any foreign substance or attach anything to his hand any finger or either wrist. Most major league pitchers do not abide by that rule. Which means that as sarah. Put it in a piece for the athletic this week. Your favourite pitcher is probably cheating to talk about. Why and how they're cheating and what we can do about it. We are joined by mr sarah. Hello hey thanks for having me on ben i you know This piece was just a another salvo in a long string that we've been reporting. I mean you. And i and other people and rain It's i don't even know how much new stuff and having it but no you gotta keep keep updating the story because it is. I think it's a real story. I think so too and we are also joined by former major league pitcher david art smith. Who has a cold end. Maybe some far substances in his throat right now but is joining us nonetheless. Hello david definitely have. Some foreign subsidies helped me out here a little bit. No it's great to be on here. And i don't want to make sure everybody knows this relegate. I never cheated. It's very believable. So you Surveyed some people in the game when you were working on this piece players and coaches. And what was the sense that you got of. What percentage of pitchers are using something that they technically are. Not allowed to be using. It's funny when you survey someone you really just asking what's happening in their little sphere. So it's it's maybe not the greatest data point you know because it's you're asking around you what's happening and so there are a lot of people said one hundred percent which told me something but there was also you know a consensus that it was more than half. Nobody said less than half and The meeting answer was over. Seventy five percents so It was one of those things. Most i think is is the answer and i guess i'll put this question to both of you for the folks who have not followed all of the reporting here. Let's just take a step back and talk about what the the benefits of using a foreign substance are for a pitcher. Why would somebody elected be part of that fifty percent. i can speak from a sort of research standpoint. it adds about three hundred. Rpm in terms of spin rates to your fastball to breaking ball and I don't know if the spin itself is inherently valuable but that produces movement so it produces more ride on a fastball. On a foreseen fastball on the produces more drop on a on a breaking ball. Both things that are have been shown by research to be beneficial. So david i don't know what you want to disclose about your own experience with substances either personally or as a witness. But what can you tell us about. I guess what you've seen and what you think the benefits well say. This relegate is i'll feel totally fine the talk about whatever i did what other whatever everybody else did. I won't necessarily say names or anything. I'll probably stay away from a little bit from an organizational standpoint on what they might be doing what those guys might have been doing obviously had nothing to do with that but from a player's standpoint. What's really neat is seeing the data now. Seeing how the pitch is affected how your fastballs affected your site or your curb all split in my instance you know. And that's what i really used to for to seeing. How the data how it's influenced when back in the i mean this stuff's been around forever we've been using pine tar since basically since the first moment they could start using pine tar and but you generally did it because you just felt like you had a better ball. You felt like you could manipulate the ball better. And so it's really neat to see how the data basically backs up what you've always felt. You just didn't know what the what necessarily the outcome was. You knew you made a better pitch. You just didn't know what the data set behind it. So it's really neat to see the data backing up what you've always kind of known. I think that's a really instructive thing. Also because i think that the technology and the data together have led to a little bit an explosion of this. Because now you're always throwing in front of a wrap soto thrown in front of something and you know now you can say oh you know this works better than that and there is actually even research that suggests that that every finger type every skin type has its own kind of ideal grip substance and so now everyone can find that. I mean. they're just always in front of the machine so say it works better if i use this instead of that and so we're kind of optimizing this one little thing. Yeah and so. The league wide spin rates just keep increasing year after year after year and that could be because team surges sta seeking spin. And they're looking for pitchers who have high spinned already. That's probably part of it but do you think another part of it is just. That pitchers are using the stuff more if not more maybe more effectively because as david is saying pine tar goes back forever but as i think rub. Arthur pointed out piece for baseball prospectus. Recently it seems like maybe people have kinda cracked the code here when it comes to what substances to us and what mixtures of substances to us. And how and when to apply it. So would you attribute these skyrocketing spin rates largely to that. Do you think if i could speak on that. I think sometimes we're putting the cart the horse and we're saying like i'm sorry i've messed with all the stuff that's out right now. Pelican grip you talk about the article and a lot of other stuff. Guerilla group is another one and those types of things were always around. And i remember the first day i got to the big leagues. I mean they opened up basically toolkit and said to use have fun. Here's firm grip pine tar. Here's guys would be bringing stuff from venezuela from the dominican you know and it's you know shaving cream your excuse that you're shaving your face out there but you're actually just trying to get better grip on the ball. I think the difference is it's a it's a combination of what we're looking for from pitchers and they use of the substance a lot of times in the past. They were trying to throw down. Throw sinkers for rising forcing fastballs. Were not the thing that pitchers used that was a rarity. That was a commodity. If you had that you didn't know what to do with it but it worked now. It's were trying to find those pitchers with the high spend really with better. Vertical movements better approach angles at the plate. And we're combining this stuff with it so it's always been there. It's not that way guys are just figuring out what works for them. That's always been there. We've always been tinkering and playing with it. It's that perfect. Combination of that substances with the pitches and wearing the past guys weren't throwing the pitches. I don't think that really needed it. But now we're we're seeing how useful it is now. That's really interesting. I want one substance. That was really funny. That told me about was. He scraped his bong and use. The bong resin chris. I think maybe you're right. Maybe it's not about rap soto. Maybe it's about the ball. Is that our people. You're saying you know you touch on this in in the piece that you wrote. There's also the complicating factor of the ball itself right that there are some characteristics to the ball that even if you set aside. The search for spin are incentivizing pitchers to use substances. Just so they can truly get a better grip on slick ball in your reporting. Have you seen there being any kind of real trend that might be related to changes in the ball that is incentivizing increase use or is it just that spin a sexy in the ses. Sort of a coincidental. Bit of timing. Well i mean. I did talk to a pitcher who went to korea and he used substances in america and he did not use them in korea and he said partially. It's because you know the they pat you down at the mound partially because the ball is stickier. They have tacky ball over there with with better seems and so you know. All that elsie said the rosina's different over there. He said the rosin drive's better. It's some sort of the us rock resin here and not there. I'd like i'm not a rosin scientists but you know there are things we can do on that level and the one thing. That's interesting to me. I think i don't want to jump too far ahead but like we could screw with the ball again but there is. It seems like a very much risk that we don't do that much about strikeouts by screwing of the ball and the home runs. Go away and then we've got a brand of baseball. The no one really wants to watch. There's no homers in a bunch of strikeouts. Yeah and do you get the sense david that this is sort of past player to player more so than from above i mean there are certain teams that have may become in for more suspicion than others but it seems like this is so widespread. And as you said you know it just kinda gets introduced to you on day one in the majors or maybe before i mean. I talked to pitchers who were doing. This in the miners are even an immature ball. So is it just sort of the dark art. That kind of you know is passed from generation to generation more so than you know. It's coming from the team itself. I would say it used to be allow more generational used to be okay. The old veteran shows the young punk you know exactly what safi ship using and they usually bloom off back in the day but now because of all the stuff because of what dr einstein because of how much. Let's be honest. How much. Trevor bowers really talked about it and put it out in the open you know. I think we're gonna nations now are seeing how useful this is an end. They're the ones promoting it. They're the ones talking about it. Where all of this would have happened. But the time would have been stretched out a little bit longer like they would have figured it out on their own eventually but now it's kind of like first day you're brought in the camp you know you're not into that that post draft camp where we already know everything about your pitches already. Do we know exactly how it moves. We've already highlighted the guys that can use more spin guys. I can use more vertical movement. Those guys you're isolating those guys are saying all right. What can we do more. How can we help you. And they're don't get me wrong. There's a certain group of guys. You don't even want to mess with this. Let them let them do their thing and if they raise those questions yeah you you know you help them out but i think it is pushed quicker but at the same time. It's always been there so there's really been no difference. Just now. it's i think is a warning. They learn how to use it earlier. So they're more comfortable with it to where in the past would have been a little longer process so you brought up our. That was inevitable. The so our won the cy young award this week. You know clearly. He had a great season. You could quibble with whether he was the most deserving candidate just based on the quality of the opponents he faced but regardless he had a good year and not suggesting that he had a good year purely because he was using substances. He's obviously been a good pitcher in the past but certainly seems as if he started using something that he hadn't been using before in september of twenty nine thousand nine hundred and you know you wrote about his single inning experiment back in two thousand eighteen when his spin rates spiked for knitting and it seemed quite clear he sort of hinted that he had us something and the same thing happened very suddenly very dramatically late last season and continued into this year and it just seems pretty brazen i mean it's a it stands out. It's like the most dramatic sudden in in spin rate that any pitcher his head in the simple of seasons that we've been able to measure these things and he just wanted to say a word which you know whether or not it's because of that it coincided with it which seems like it could be some sort of scandal. Perhaps you know it gets mentioned by some people that doesn't get mentioned by other people. But what do you make of that apparent experiment you know man. I have so many thoughts and they don't they don't go on the same directions. I mean i in some ways. I feel for him because he seemed to try to shine a light on to say you know. Hey this is happening and you can do something about baseball. And then when they didn't you know he kind of seemed like well. You can't beat them join them. Yeah of course that sounds a lot like what we said about. Barry bonds Which makes me uncomfortable. So i don't wanna go that too far but i mean he obviously tried to do something about it and baseball in your reporting. You've you showed a memo where baseball announced that you know they were gonna do something about it. And they spent a year doing something about it and they fired one clubhouse attendant right and i think there says some sort of pending lawsuit there was the the angels clubhouse person who was supposedly providing fern substances to visiting pitchers and the guy sued and said it was defamation in that he never distributed an illegal substance and he was made a public scapegoat and i think mlb and the angels are trying to get that lawsuit dismissed. I did. I did talk to a pitcher after the these Ran he said. Oh yeah anaheim was where we always went to get the good stuff. And i will also say we could focus on power and i couldn't name any names but i have to say the best pitchers in baseball. Their hands are not clean. Yeah man that was bad but like the best pitchers in baseball are often the ones that people like. Oh i learned my mix from that one. And i learned my you know proprietary grip mix from that guy and he has those good stuff so there's definitely this is not just is not like bauer and a couple relievers. That's that's one of the things. I was trying to get across in story on. I think there's an you know. David you might be the right person. Speak to this point but it is curious. This is a performance enhancer. It seems to be obviously thought of in some ways that is very similar to the way steroid use was thought of which is what. Everybody's doing it so it's probably fine but it is categorically different than that in a way. I'm i'm curious about the psychology. Of sort of reconciling yourself to what is technically a form of cheating even if everyone or fifty percent of everyone or some vast preponderance of everyone is doing it. How are players sort of mentally differentiating. These things from one another to the extent they are. I guess they they might not be might be thinking of them as sort of a piece. But they're comfortable with anyhow but if they're not what's the what's the wiggle room that they're granting themselves to be adding spin to the ball and enhancing their performance but not ingesting a foreign substance and so able to go out on the mound every five days or you know every other day and allow this to enhance their performance. That's an interesting question because it raises a lot of weird weird ideas kid. 'cause you can easily like the same for steroids. Make it for pine tar all this stuff. I don't i see them as two totally different things. Yes it's cheating because the rules say you can't do it at same time. I think it's almost like the rules. Were written to prevent guys from doing it. Because it kind of gave an unfair advantage where whereas honestly steroid i put a whole nother bucket. I i say. I do not agree with the whole argument of like well. Some guys do it so we should all do it. I think it should be natural game. I completely believe that. Now push that line as far as you can with science and everything and and testing everything needs to be on top of it but push it now with the foreign substances with with all that stuff for me to see it as a enhancement. What you're already doing so if you it doesn't it does make you control the ball a better makes you spin. It better makes you move over better at the same time guys are using it to hold a bat. Guys are using it in the field. Heck let's be honest. I never had to use pine tar. If i didn't need to if i didn't want i would never have it on my body. My third baseman has all on his glove. Mike patrick got all lined up in his glove. I mean cool but it's totally legal for them rights totally legal for his glove to just kate and when the ball goes around the horn he throws me the ball and honestly it's probably too much pine tar at that point and so there's a million different ways around it. That are totally legal. That's the problem with me with all of this. My god. it's so bad it's illegal now. Don't be pineda and put it on your neck like an idiot. Don't don't have it all over slather on the back of your glove. Nydia i do. I love the game where you're trying to hide it. You're trying to not be so obvious with it. And i'll be honest. You can watch any video of me after every pitch. I put sunscreen all over my arms played in seattle. I mean come on. Why would i need sunscreen. Read all over my arms. But i would only had it in the middle my fingers and then i'd get rosin until the mike look i'm going to wipe it off and i'll wipe it off but come on my hands so sticky. My shirt would stick with my hand. And so it. But i've gotten no issue with it. I love it. I love that guys want to use it and to say almost fifty percent come on ninety nine percent of guys are using it and the only ones that don't just don't feel the need it. They've tried it trust me. They've every one of them. I've tried and tried in a big league game. It just a matter of i came in some guys like this and goes like that guys like rosin just because it feels good honestly. I didn't like that much pine tar on my fingertips. But i loved him between my fingers because it may split nasty and i liked it. Well david is interesting. You bring up the the sunscreen thing. I had some pushback pitchers. I don't use anything like nothing. And they were like just sunscreen rod so there is a differentiation drugs just weed. So that's why. I think if some people are like all you know ninety nine too much i think they might be putting sunscreen. Rosina's on thing. But but the sunscreen rosalyn is white so unenforceable like you cannot tell a person who's outdoors that they can't have sunscreen on exactly and that's an interesting point. You brought up earlier about about korea korea. I went in two thousand eight. We went with the red sox win to tokyo. And we played the giants. We played the tiger out there and then we actually played a game against the as their balls. Were amazing. i didn't need anything i like. I normally my sunscreen. My and i'm ready to go and then give me the bomb dude. This is great. I through my first split. And i'm like yeah that's why all these guys come out here splits because it's nasty. The ball moves so well with that stuff. I love those balls david. What do you make the argument. That for safety reasons you need to use something and seven hitters will even say i want them to use it because i want them to have control. I don't want to get into pitchers. We'll say it's so i don't hit someone in the head. Is that legitimate at all women when you're playing in baltimore in august and it's like ninety five with ninety five percent humidity. I'm telling you honestly every single hitter wants me. Use pine tar. Wants me you something because that your ball gets so slippery but of that. I've used this argument before. But it's such b. s. and. Come on dude. I hit like guys my whole career and like so. It's like oh spicy. Come on. it's such an. It's an argument like the go-to argument. Like because you can't argue against it like oh well. I mean just looking out for the hitter. That's nice guy. no. I hate to see what we'd do without all the pine tar because hit by pitches. All time highs really uses that high and the hit by visiting that high man. You guys have no. We didn't know. I think honestly hit by pitches are hi guys. Were thrown nasty pitches guys trying to throw. Yeah the day and age of control and command really going out there. Giving us ivan strong hard innings are over. You're trying to throw the hardest four innings. You can in your life. And that's one of the issues of the game. We're promoting strikeout so much that we're developing strikeout pitchers while strikeout pitchers tend to walk guys or hit guys. Nobody deal because if you strike out to an inning who gives a crap if you walk one and then you're going to have pop up so the endings over. So we're developing all these guys with these nasty pitches. Well nasty pitches with that comes at fighters you know like get over. If you don't want to get ahead get out. Don't bat so within that environment of incentives. Right you walk is we'll spend you guys who are going to strike a bunch of guys how. What is the appropriate mechanism of enforcement. If despite those incentives we decided we really want to cut down on this which. I don't know that. I know that you've reported on this report on this. There is some desire on the league's part. I don't know how sincere or heartfelt desire is given the fact that they haven't done anything in that. Trevor bauer digits. Win the cy. Young basically daring them to come and like searches locker every night. So what are the potential enforcement mechanisms. We have here both the the actual procedure that you think might be useful and who should be doing the enforcing because i think that there is a reasonable concern that if you aren't consistent with the enforcement that there is the potential for bias against particular kinds of pitchers particular kinds of people pitching. What are the mechanisms at our disposal here and are any of them. Sort of equal to the task. I think it's terrible. I think the way you do. It is terrible and that's why nobody wants to do it. Have you ever seen mma check in. You know the answer that i have not over here before before an may match the empire in this. I don't even know what they're called. I'm not that much of a fan. But the the the the referee that must've he comes up and he puts his hands in the fighters hair and he touches him all over the back of his neck and he basically just feels him up all over making sure. These didn't have a weapon. Or something. And i think it would have to be that intense on the mound in front of everybody. I think it would make everybody in the stadium uncomfortable. Because you're talking about tucking it in the little parts of your glove. You're talking about your belt. You're talking about but you know. Sony pictures have long hair. I think you're talking about behind the net. You're talking about touching behind the ears. You're talking about all these little places you can hide stuff. I think it would make. I think it would be bad for the labor labor ownership discussion before the i think it would be terrible optics and i think it would lead to more bad blood between owners and the player i just i think it just i think it just makes everyone feel really uncomfortable. They that's the type enforcement we'd have to do. When i talked to people when i wrote about it in july it sounded like at least from some people if they were really aggressive and vigilant about it and they empowered the umpires to come out and check all the time that that would have some effect. Of course like if you just leave it to the managers then a lot of the times. They're not gonna challenge because they know their own pitchers served doing the same thing. So i thought that one way that you could do it and it seemed like from talking to someone at. Mlb sounded like they were at least thinking about this was looking at statcast in spin rates and monitoring for sudden jumps which wouldn't help if someone had been using this thing time but if there is a trevor bauer situation. Were suddenly like all of a sudden from one game to the next. It's way way up. Then make sure you cheat right away. Establish you're cheating baseline early but the fact that like bauer at least according to the data seems about as blatant as it could possibly be and seemingly. They didn't anything. I don't know if he was warned behind the scenes or anything but it doesn't seem like he stopped or that his spin rates fell. So that was kind of confounding. Because that seemed like the situation where you could go after someone. And i don't know if it's just that it would be such a pain to make. Trevor bauer the scapegoat in the poster. Boy or or what. They just didn't want the headache. Or maybe i don't know i could give them a pass. I guess in that there is a pandemic may be earned substances. Weren't the top priority. They had a lot of other things on their mind this year. So difficult always to spot it. I mean some guys are super obvious and they have it on the hat like i. This question to david like you know there are a lot of tricks right. There's a lot of ways people get around it. I mean you're talking about the infielders like you know you. Could mommy not even have any on yourself and just have you know interest. Have it on them. No absolutely there's a million different ways around and and when you start like you can hide it anywhere. you can do anything though. The biggest thing is when you start creating a routine with how you move your hands how you move your glove then it becomes easier 'cause then you just put it somewhere with a without routine 'as looking at the spin rates will his with with whatever you're gonna use now come on like. How easy is the arguments trying to new grip. I'll i put my arm into different position today. Man i did some differently and to be honest from a organizational standpoint knowing that raw data we get from the stadiums do that. Those numbers are way off. Sometimes to some stadiums are so blatantly bad that we had our own software basically lake where we food chain spacecraft data because it was so bad from certain stadiums that you just knew it wasn't right and so it's to look at that and trust that data and then to make a decision on somebody's career on it do i would from Sample point i would be losing my my. You have to be going to catch them in the act too. Yeah you'd have to catch them in the act doing it for me if somebody's house that's the problem is with us. Bdo cool at this if somebody's using it and they're not being trying to hide it there. Not being any coy at all. Come on site do what we used to do what they used to do in the eighties. It walk out there and be like dude. Come on stop you know. I guess. But i don't like selective enforcement man you know enforcement makes me feel bad. It makes me think that you could target a certain type of person or you know like one of the guys that got buses brennan donald. Nobody liked him. He was a strikebuster. Yeah you know. I mean it totally. It works for me that he got busted. You know i totally understand that. Nobody likes that guy going bust them. You know what i mean. Think about like we always. I always tend to go back to the pineda. Thanks i i knew. When i came up with the mariners with the yankees and i was john farrell. Basically told him not to do it. The next game you know. He is managing the red sox. He basically said if it's this obvious again. I'm going to call him help and he made it more obvious. So it's like come on like for me. It's an understanding on the field. Let the managers and only the managers the only ones that can never call it out for me. It's been a good ballplayer. Be a man like be. Be somebody out there that the other teams respect to let you do it. Or don't be and you're going cold out near careers zamira shorter. I guess the question is while there are a lot of questions related to this. But this one might just be in august when we need to address. Do we care. We do we within the game. Do we care about this. Because there's cameras. I think that like there's the difficulty of enforcement and that can be a powerful disincentive to trying to enforce it. Because two point you don't want to enforce it's selectively. You want there to be some sort of consistency in the policy. But there's a lot of stuff that's hard and we figure out how to do it anyway. So should we read the the lack of enforcement around this as major league baseball. Truly just not having yet figured out how to do it. In a way that's consistent and fair or should we read it as them only carrying so much as trevor. Bauer makes noise about it in public. And maybe there's another option in between those. That is the right answer. But i'm curious kind of what where you guys land on that i have to say from my readership numbers. Some people care a little bit. I wouldn't say that this is on the level of the astros scandal or anything. The two reasons i care. I mentioned selective enforcement. Bug me out. I don't i don't like that. It's still on the books. So that at some point in a world series game someone could decide. The stakes are high enough that they're going bus guy you know. I don't like that sort of feeling that it could at any time. Become a big deal and it just hasn't because there's some sort of gentlemen's agreement or something i don't know and the other thing i don't like is or that i find interesting about this. Is we're talking about ways to maybe reduce the impact of strikeouts on the game. We're talking about ways generally It seems fandom and and people writing sport a talking about do we have to me outs in the game and this could be a place where we reduce strikeouts. I don't know if it's the best one. There's other ways to do it but it could be. I don't know with Reducing in strikeouts. You're gonna up balls in play right. Would what people want you know. I mean that's that's sort of a stated thing that people. I know as a pitcher you don't want on strike. Everybody out of the game is boring as possible. My make it boring but it's a fan. You could see maybe some people wanting more vaseline balls and player. All time could be a thing. I wanted to go back like my eight year. old baseball. all strikeouts boring. I'll give it. It's boring as heck. Yeah i think it matters for that reason but also i think because in you mentioned this in your piece too but there's some potential for a scandal here and it doesn't seem like there's a complete coincidence that this memo from chris. Young and obese like on field operations and disciplined person was sent around in february. It just seemed like maybe. This was a response to the sign stealing scandal. And they'll be looking around and saying well who else is cheating. And how can we could blow up on us like that. Let's try to get ahead of it this time. And i don't know if there's potential for the same sorta scandal because again everyone's doing it. And so maybe that makes it a little less scandalous away. Because you know it's not just one team that'll get out or two teams or whatever for doing things a certain way like everyone's doing it but if team won the world series and it were proven that they were all doing it then maybe it would be a scandal even if every other team was doing it or whatever maybe you know someone wins a word like what if trevor bauer comes out and admits what he did after. He won the cy young award. That doesn't look great. So i would think that you know combined with the data that we have now on the spin rates which tells us how effective this isn't how big a difference it makes. It's just impossible to ignore now. And i looked in my article to try to figure out if i could see what the actual impact is which is tough because there's no control group really because everyone's cheating all the time. So how do you say. I mean unless you have someone like bauer someone you spoke to for your piece. You know who can demonstrate in a lab with and without these certain types of substances than. It's hard to say if you do. Just look at individual pitchers and how they do when they throws their pitches that have the highest bauer units. You can't even talk about this stuff without using the name. Because he has a step named after him that's been rate so it controls for velocity basically because of loss spin raider correlated. So if you look at the highest bauer unit pitches for individual pitchers they do get with rates and better results on those pitches and so because we have that and we have you know high definition cameras and everything. You can't pretend that it doesn't make a difference and so. I think there is some potential for this to blow up in an obese face if they just don't do anything about it so i kind of hope that they figure out either the tacky grip baseball that everyone's okay with or they just standardize a certain type of substance. Which is what. Bauer said that he wanted all along not to have it banned but to have it legalized to a certain extent. So it's just out there like a rosin bag so one of those things just seems to me to be better than everyone kinda you know winking and nodding and getting away with it and some people doing it another not doing it. And then the selective enforcement problem. Yeah it's a. It's a recipe for disaster. Seems like you think you're setting it up right. I wonder though if they give everyone. A substance of some people are like well. There's something out there. But i like this stuff better myself. That's what's going to happen. It's going to become they're to be using it anyways. Exactly what they want to use them. And the thing about is if everybody's doing it hasn't just become standardized. And that's what the pitches new orlea you know and eventually they hitters are going to just do it. I mean i think that's that's where we've settled in. I don't think is in a rush to change the ball. I mean that's that's that's one feeling i get from reporting and also just looking at how the different ball has Led to a headache. I mean i. I asked about it like five years ago. So i feel like they. They don't want to open up that sort of situation again. That's the direction that the solution lies. I think we could be waiting for a long time all right well before we let you go david. Could i ask you one more question on a different subject. You were with the blue jays. The last couple of seasons working in player development. You were the pitching rehab coordinator this past season and you're not going to be back with them next year they've let go of or didn't renewable of people in player development which is happening all over the game in part because of covid in part because of the minor league contraction. What do you think is going to happen to player development across the game. I guess between this year and no minor league season and the setbacks that came with that and the contraction of the miners and just some of the downsizing that we're seeing across the sport. What will the impact be on the players who were coming up now. I think the initial impact. I think where it's going to really be felt is a lot of those players that needed an opportunity. Guys that were six to twentieth rounders guys. That just needed somewhere to play for a couple of years. And then they hit the maturity than they hit their. That's when they become really good. We're going to miss that in the game in five years six years when we don't have that crop of players it's gonna be it's gonna be tough because you're you're not going to see a lot of those guys that should have had opportunities the same time guys will always feel their spot where i think. I think it's really tough. Losing to affiliates like the buddhis- are losing affiliates. That's that's amazing. Losing that many coaches that much staff especially when major league baseball was growing. I mean we were adding staff left and right and so a lot of people are getting opportunities. That never would have gotten chances. Getting hired out of college was a lot of these guys. So you're now you're cutting back even more. You're losing guys. Had chances are that are leaving the game and so that that's tough. It's tough to see but honestly major baseball was doing great until cova de major league baseball doing wonderful and they're they're still going to do well. If as long as things open up as long as you allow fans we're gonna see in in a couple years. I wouldn't doubt we. We added an affiliate back. I think when you see the money coming back in the game you're going to see growth again. You're going to see organizations bringing guys back in because at the end of the day. Data's not going away is not going away. The amount of cameras will use the amount of information that every day were assessing our players like from on the field to the field in so many different ways that stuff not. We're not getting less of that. We're getting more and more and more and so the manpower and the brainpower takes to to just go through that you're going to need staff you're gonna need a lotta guys so even though this year basically is going to be like a reset. Sometimes you take two steps back to go three ford. And that's all i see is like this is just a reset of financially. And then it's gonna they're gonna go full steam ahead so if anybody is discouraged about opportunities in baseball don't be because in two years they're going to be full steam ahead again. Hiring looking for people smart bright people that are looking to try to figure their way through major league baseball. They're going to be looking for. I hope that's the case. That's i guess a an uplifting note that we can anton here so you can all find david on twitter at the. Da five three and you can find on twitter at you. Know serious and of course can reach him and listen to him at the athletic. Thanks guys thank you all right. That will do it for today and for this week. Thanks as always for listening and please do check out the show page where we always put links to the videos and articles and research we discussed on the show. We've gotten a bunch of responses to what sam salmon i discussed on our previous episode about changes that one could make if one wanted to preserve a difference between the and the nfl in the era of the universal h a lot of people suggested banning the shift in one league others suggested for instance keeping the runaround second in extra innings rule in one league. Not the other. Some people suggested other variations on that so one league has replay in another dozen or same thing with the three better minimum seven inning doubleheaders mound visit limits etc than you would have sort of the traditionalist versus non traditionalist that the student gender. But just with all these other new rules so thanks for all the suggestions and maybe we discuss them next week. In the meantime you can support the podcast on patron going to patriots dot com slash effectively wild fouling. Five listeners have already signed up and pledge some some of the amount to help keep podcast going and get themselves access to perks. Amelia mettler colin. Paul heyman timoteo. Covert tito and eric at stick. Thanks to all of you can join our facebook group at facebook dot com slash groups such effectively wild you can review and subscribe to effectively wild. I tunes spotify another podcast platforms. Keep your questions and comments for me. And meghan sam coming via email at podcast depend graphs dot com or via the pgn and messaging system. If you are supporter. Thanks bill higgins for his editing assistance. We hope you have a weekend. We will be back to talk to you early next week on. Nobody that everybody's somebody somebody what are really may flex. Why you wanna say you on from.

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Have The Yankees Hit Rock Bottom?

The Lead

17:08 min | 4 months ago

Have The Yankees Hit Rock Bottom?

"With. Three weeks. Left in baseball's regular season things have been spiraling out of control for the New York Yankees. Another really disappointing loss for the Yankees twelve seven the final the end result is a humiliating loss embarrassing loss and the Yankees right now should be looking deep inside themselves saying what the heck just happened today the Athletics Lindsay Adler on what has gone wrong in the Bronx. It was like they had MIDAS touch last year and is just the opposite. It's just no longer surprising to win. The game that they thought was going near wages gets blown up basis. From wondering athletic, I'm Davidson and I'm Kelso. It's Wednesday. September ninth and this is the lead. It felt like something was. Something of a motion. passed. It does. Not Good. This isn't a story. Athletes. It stays with you. The lead is proud to be presented by fantail fantasy sports are finally back. 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Regardless of where you are these days, it can feel like you always need to be on and when you need to take him into reset that's when you reach for the one beer that's literally made to chill cores light course light is cold lager cold, filtered, and cold packaged and with playoff basketball playoff hockey football season starting up this week for me. It's the perfect time to crack one open of course, wants to give you a way to take a break from the new reality of endless video chats in two thousand twenty. So say goodbye to your video chat background and hello to that beautiful travel destination in real life and actually chill five lucky winners will get trips. To the beautiful destinations, they've been dreaming about going to four months to enter for a chance to win visit coors light dot com slash outside during September and upload a screen shot of yourself in your ideal video chat background. The prize package is valid through June two, thousand, twenty two. So winters can plan their trip whenever they feel comfortable and for me after so much time at home. The trip I'm dying to go on is a quiet beach just about anywhere. You can enter for a chance to win a trip to the beautiful destination of your choice at coors light dot com slash outside no purchase necessary sweepstakes begins on August twenty, seventh two, thousand, twenty, and ends on. I Two thousand twenty it's open only to legal residents of the fifty states and d c You have to be twenty one years of age or older travel must be to the destination indicated in the entry and must be completed by June thirtieth two, thousand, twenty two for official rules including how to enter prize details and restrictions. visit www dot coors light dot com slash outside void where prohibited message and data rates may apply. Remember to responsibly coors brewing company Golden Colorado. So. Lindsay reminders with the expectations were for the Yankees coming into season. It was pretty clearly a world series campaign. The players really dissatisfied how they lost to the Houston Astros last year in the AFC S. The Yankees out they got Garrett Cole they added a true ace the Yankees did whatever Yankee Fan wanted them to do they signed the best pitcher available Yankees have signed call Na a record-breaking three hundred, twenty, four, million dollars for a nine year deal that comes out to thirty, six, million a year, and during spring training back in February and March Florida you just feel the players. Were all very focused. They were very driven. They were very much on the same page and then endemic hit while corona virus fears are also hitting baseball spring training. It's been suspended the absence of Arizona Spring Pastime is leaving fans valley businesses wondering what's next teams wells? Michael. I spent a lot of time wondering if shortened season would help them or if it would hurt them i. Figured shortened season would give some teams that may be closer to five hundred an opportunity to compete because you go on one hot street. That's good. Night didn't know how that affects the Yankees and I'm not sure how much ink schedule has affected it but so far they are not looking like the same team that I saw on spring training. Yeah. How has reality compared to those? Expectations, I no longer have words for it. I legitimately, no longer have words for it. I understand the mets. Now it's what I will say because last year in twenty nineteen, the eighties looked very charmed life. They have a lot of their superstars get injured and then they had guys from the minor leagues guys who fans would probably never heard of come up and tribute big time. Back. Pig. Skin. Frazier. Walk off single. Cub. Four. It was like they had the MIDAS touch last year and this year it's just the opposite. It's just no longer surprising to me when a game that they thought was going, their way just gets blown up in their faces while we have one of those Monday night and a game that the Yankees needed against Toronto, they rip six to gave up ten runs in the sixth inning. Center. Janssen clears the basis. For the. So much for the Blue Jays being intimidated by the Yankees. Where does that rank among the worst Yankee losses? This season? That's the worst like this should be rock-bottom territory because the Yankees are now third in the American League East trailing behind the raise in the Blue Jays and the expanded postseason format is the only reason the Yankees are even in a postseason spot right now but not twenty of their remaining games ten against the Blue Jays. So this blue. Jay Series. They were like you know what we're going shake off the two and a half weeks. We're going to take this opportunity against our division rival and it looked like he was going well looked like they were playing like the team. They hadn't been capable of being for a couple of weeks and then it got about as bad as I've ever seen and you look at that inning Ryan. and. It goes like this ten runs scored sixty seven pitches thrown forty three minutes and one dark cloud that continues to hover over the struggling team. There is some teams that have had bullpens over the last couple of years. The Yankees issue has been their starting rotation mostly but right now it is everybody draws a card. Their offense had been really dormant leading into the series. So the fact that. They were able to put six on the board was kind of a big thing gave their kitchen staff some cushion for the first time in a while and so Aaron Boone managed aggressively very clearly with the intention of preserving this lead he went to two of his top relievers who were the ones who blew theme, and so the fact that it just almost went well and now is just ripped away. From them it was a sight to behold, but I don't know that it was shocking. What has manager Aaron Boone said about the team struggles goonies by rule very positive and this is the first time that we've seen that slide. Think we're frustrated. I think as pissed off and understandable but we gotta get through it and we gotta fight our way through it. He was asked on Monday night where. You can do or say after a crushing loss like that. Any thought something that he said that was interesting was he can't allow it to be crushing now not allowed to be on just not allowed to be here. So we'll say the right things again and we need to we need to get past it. We need to play better obviously. So much of it is we have to turn the page. We have to turn the page we up to turn the page. But when you start having all of these really bad bloom games up, you know it's no longer washing off one bad game. It's washing off three weeks of them. This boy, this is obviously a pretty young team but what has some of the veterans on this team had to say about this slide? So Brett Gardner is the longest. tenured Yankee this point outfielder and he said something along the lines of this is just unacceptable. The way that we played lately is not acceptable. So we have to find a way to be better myself included e- issue was the Gardner. Himself is also having a he's Murray's really struggling. So it's interesting because some of the veterans tasked with talking about these things they are also struggling Garrett Cole, who is Ace has now have three got games in a row driven toward right talk men drifting back that ball carries to the track out by that brick wall that ball is God to run opposite field homer. You could see how frustrated Garrett Cole is the pitch that preceded the and so the most influential voices in the room, they're not just talking about the team performance, they're having to talk about themselves within that context as. Well, which I think sort of restricts what they can say about it to an extent if we take a step back, can you trace where things started to go wrong for this team? Yes exactly. The date August eighteen they had just swept the red sox and so you're fired up ready to go ready to face the raise try to really stake their claim to the AL and then they were swept I, Rub by Choi. flips. And that will do it. As the race week the easy win today by a score of ten to five and nothing pretty about this series at all for the New York Yankees didn't go. Well, race came in he had injuries since then they've had Aaron judge go down they had James Paxton go down they've had other guys make shorter injured list since, but they started by getting swept by the race and they just never really bounced back from that would have been the biggest issues is it? Just the injuries I think the injuries are something that people point to. But this point I don't buy it because they have guys in their lineup they have doesn't bullpen. They have guys in their rotation who are very capable of stepping up in performing or even just they performed themselves the Yankees would be winning games. So yes, you have Aaron Judge Giancarlo San out it's been fun watching Aaron Judge, Giancarlo Stanton Mash and the Yankees lineup fun. Well, it last at Stanton. Now appears headed to the injured list once again. But the bigger issue to me is the guys who were not injured many of them are really underperforming or they're performing well, and then getting blown up in an important spot. So I think a lot of teams throughout the league are dealing with injuries. You know the rays have seems like twenty five pitchers on the injured list and they're still playing really hot baseball so it will be interesting to me to see in. Retrospect weight is put on those injuries. The Yankees are in third place in the division behind the raising and the Blue Jays. The Blue Jays team that didn't really have a home to start the season g. you have a sense of why we've seen a dramatic shift of power in the Al East, you know something notice last year with a lot of their prospects coming up to the bleachers can really hit what one is Jack. Deep Left Center field there it goes up. Lilly. Railroad. Junior. Doubts is his presence to the. By saw the Blue Jays do damage to the Yankees pitching staff at points throughout the year and so really the Blue Jays are ahead of schedule. So they should be contending in about twenty twenty one but I really think the shortened season has worked to their advantage because we have really seen in the alleys and in other divisions how note the Blue Jays get rolling another team gets rolling the margin between the win loss record suddenly becomes very slim is your son's they're still faith in Aaron in the Yankees clubhouse in the midst of all this turmoil yeah this is the time. Win Not having clubhouse access really does make a big difference because I get asked what's the mood around the team like all I can tell you is really what I see on zooms in. They seem frustrated a little bit Shell, shocked Brett Gardner pointed out that a lot of the guys in that room haven't really ever dealt list bad performance in slumps like this. There's a lot of guys in the room that are frustrated. They're disappointed you know itching to turn their season around. So why self included so hopefully, hopefully, that's right around the corner because we don't have much time left. Season in agent told me that the players basically front through a wall for Aaron Boone vows what he was brought in to do, and so I know the going into the season, he was connected to his players as people thought were really ready to go. I just everybody shaken by the slide and it's definitely interesting to see it now Lindsey, we have just three weeks. Left in the regular season what does this Yankees team need to do? What has to happen for things to turn around the need to be bluejays? We need to eat the Blue Jays they just need to do it so that they don't finish third in the division wind up the eighth seed potentially face the race immediately the postseason they didn't match up well to them at. All any that was what was so rude all about Monday night's game was that there have been a lot of games for the Yankees haven't even looked in it. You know, and then they lose finally all this anxiety they're setup to win and it gets away from them and so really just being able to get to that point and finish it. It's simple. There's nothing. Else, I can say they just need to get it together on finally Lindsey. It's an expanded postseason field this year with sixteen teams reaching the playoffs the Yankees would make it if the playoffs started today assuming that they are in the season, does this team still have the pieces in place to make a world series run? It's not good that I have to think about this. They have to think about my answer because yes, they do have the players to do it but so far either the players have not done not done it consistently, you can't win a world series relying only on DJ Lemay Hugh in Luke Voi- just can't do it. So yes. They have the components to be a great team even if Aaron Judge and John. Carlos Stanton can only contribute seventy five percent of their ability or whatever the issue is just whether or not they can actually executed. Maybe stopped taking turns having bad days if the bullpen is going to collapse should also be on a day when the offense is bad and to take one big loss and then wipe away that energy. So they can contend what I'm seeing right now in center ending. Well, thank you so much for joining US Lindsay thinks. You can follow Lindsay Adler coverage of the Yankees at the athletic dot com from wondering athletic I'm could be the Davidson. See You tomorrow. All American Tiger Woods is a new documentary podcast from stitcher. Few athletes in the world are as big as tiger, and we've all heard his story and amazing right to success his ugly fall from grace and an epic comeback. I mean how exhilarating was it to watch the twenty nineteen masters NC Tiger Tacoma's fifth title from Augusta but they're still so much more to tigers story than most of us. Know All American takes a deep look at what is iconic status means in American culture and how we define our sports heroes and what better time to revisit tiger story as the rest of the country's treatment of race identity and so much more has changed tremendously. You don't WanNa. Miss this story check out all American Tiger Woods now in your favorite podcast APP and make sure to like and subscribe.

New York Yankees Blue Jays New York Yankees Lindsay Adler Aaron Boone coors Brett Gardner Aaron Judge baseball Garrett Cole MIDAS Davidson baseball Aaron Lindsey NFL basketball mets Arizona
DBL Law & Kentucky Chamber Workforce Center

Northern Kentucky Spotlight

30:17 min | 2 months ago

DBL Law & Kentucky Chamber Workforce Center

"Welcome to the northern kentucky spotlight. We're so glad you're here. The the sun is shining and the spotlight is shining on the northern kentucky area. We're going to be talking about all the great stuff happening here. And maybe not so great stuff to. That's coming your way in just a little bit i'm katherine niro. One is always. I'm joined by the brains behind the operation. The marketing and communications director for the northern kentucky chamber jeremy sharon. How are we doing this morning. Jeremy do it tells you how. How my as ben. It's wild in just a couple of minutes. We're going to be talking about what everyone's been talking about for the last week. And that of course expense vince bridge. That's coming your way in just a little bit. But first we first of all want to thank our sponsors. Cv g or they're supported the northern kentucky spotlight. Lots of information to get to. But first jeremy we do have some special guests. Yes tracy reeburg from the circuit and stephen saunders from a cg and they're here to talk to us about the circuit cio circle. It's an illegal program but they're going to talk to us about that in just a second and you get a discount on it when you're members so we thought we'd bring them on and just kind of explain the program a little bit and get it out to the general the general membership so we know what it's all about and lots more coming your way as well more guests. Even we're just we're chock full a guest today. Jeremy deal in you this really interesting. We've been talking about workforce in this area for ever and you think you know what that means and you think. Okay we're you know we're all set and then the kentucky workforce center comes along and you realize how much more success can be had so all of that is coming your way in just a little bit but first let's get to our special guest right now and so we're going to start with you tracy tell us what is cio circle. What is it was cis. Circle is part of a group called the circuit. Saw start there. thanks asking us. And we're excited to have this partnership with the chamber and expand some opportunity to their members so the circuit is a nonprofit. It industry association that our whole purpose is to raise the profile of southwest ohio region as a leading hub of technology expertise innovation collaboration among it professionals. So that will bring a you need neak depth of leadership and talent it resources to the region and help them grow by learning from each other and the cio circle is one of the many programs that we have that. Were really proud of and does a fantastic job of that in. And it's not me saying that it's the fact that numbers have been involved for fifteen. Plus years says that they find value and the opportunity for them to come together appeared appear environment without vendor sponsorship nonetheless. Steven tell you more about from his direct exposure as a member. Stephen we brought you on your wis g. and you run the it perceived. Yeah and so you participate in the cio circle. So why do you participate. What would you get out of it as being a big company like cg had no. Thanks for the opportunity for us to be here. We certainly want to support the circuit and cio circle. You know being an it. It can be kind of lonely Sometimes right and specifically with kobe did and all the things and all the pressure had been pushed on all of our companies regardless of industry It has been at the forefront. Right everyone working from home and other things that we have to continue to push forward and taking something like the circuit and and really creating that village effect where we can all collaborate together and kind of a nonprofit environment as meant a lot to see. Gee it's been a lot to the way that we've conducted our business. It's been a lot to the way that we've led. Rit initiatives this partnership means a lot to us as wonderful so if people want to get involved you mentioned. There's a discount to which is extremely important. Yes if you go to the chambers website which is in kyiv chamber dot com and go to the member discounts. Tab if it's underneath the memberships there's a bunch of information about it there and how to sign up and you can click and get more information and fill out the form and then and then if you're chamber member you can take advantage of the discount. Excellent and stephen tracey. We appreciate it so much. You're right we've never needed. It more so we appreciate all you do. Thanks so much. We appreciate you being with us today. Here on the northern kentucky spotlight as well and you know even those of us who may be venturing. Outside the home jeremy This week of parked it a little bit if we had to go anywhere near across the river. And that of course is. Because of the brent spence bridge there is no bigger headline in northern kentucky than that and so this has been an ongoing discussion for literally. Twenty years you know about a week ago was last wednesday fire. Two crashes in an explosion basically happened on the bridge shutting it down both directions and for the most part shutting much of northern kentucky's traffic. I mean all the way back down. Seventy one seventy five. So of course brings the question. What next it's shutdown potentially we're thinking until christmas. We're gonna get some more this afternoon from governor monsieur. I know potentially until christmas. But it's one of those things where you're like. Well you kind of what it to be. In complete working order right so the plan we know is underway right now. No one knows exactly hong but again several weeks worth thinking. Potentially christmas is when it will be back open but the bigger question of course is the permanent solution. What's gonna happen next and again twenty years to presidents two states to different parties. Have all promised. This is going to happen across. State lines to both ios and kentucky's governors in multiple different capacities. Have promises for years and nothing. And you know. Brett cooper this morning said and i think that this really hits home. He says doing nothing is the most expensive option. That bridge is never going to cost less than it goes right. This second a new. And so we're gonna see what happens and where that money might come from. You know as we learned in two thousand twenty sometimes the worst possible occurrences can bring about some some good things so hopefully this is one of those but we will keep you posted on the process and the progress of the gene from our perspective. I think it's going to take you know the community. The business community is going to have to start making some noise. You know if you're out there you're listening to this and you wanna go on record to the chamber. Email email myself email brand email. Kristen let us know and we will get your voice heard By the news by our politicians like everything we just to make some noise so actually something actually comes of it onto a to another another martyr. Here we go. It's nothing but sadness here promised some good stuff out there. The new record for cova cases in In kentucky this I think it was on friday. We had three thousand one hundred and seventy three new cases. The increase in the positivity rate Attest to. Oh my gosh eight point. Six eight percent said this is the toughest spot we've been in so far. He said In the news. Release the governor urged people to follow red zone community recommendations including avoiding dining inside restaurants and bars and not hosting gatherings News comes as vaccine candidates. Both i think there are three now right to three two with with the good success rate so far yeah so You know we've got some silver lining coming there. We got some vaccines but like we've got a long road ahead of us. Got to wear those masks You know have virtual thanksgiving stay home As much as possible. Go out when you have to. And but we still wanna keep patronizing those businesses and stuff and you know you can do court curbside. You can pick up a lot of even like the retails and stuff you can call in your order and they'll bring it out to your car So you wanna you wanna lose to support businesses but but we gotta be safe about it. So we don't have another shutdown. That's exactly right and another note on that kind of a footnote is the northern kentucky. Health department is saying. Get your flu shot so dr lindsay adler over there has been a guest here on the northern kentucky spotlight. She says it's more important than ever this year. Because there's a potential. It's not that the flu is going to be as bad as covid certain late. But what she's saying is if there's a spike in flu and spiking cove at the same time. Those people are competing for healthcare system. And it could. There's a possibility that it could overwhelm the system right now. Kentucky's great ohio's great as far as capacity but again unless we adhered all those rules. Do what we're supposed to do who knows where it could go. So she's saying go out there and get that flu shot. It's free in so many places. It does take a couple of weeks to take full effect. So she's saying do it. Now do it now. It has a we. We know this much It has postponed the peak of flu season. We'd be in it right now right now. We have a lot of flu cases but number one the stuff we're doing for kobe to prevent it is also preventing the flu and a lot of people are getting those flu shots. So that's good news there. We'll have some good news now. Please re-ready covington kicked off a reading Reading challenge the mayor of the mayor's winter reading challenges of seven-week a competition to find young super readers in grades pre k. Through third grade a winner in each grade will get a five hundred dollar prize based on the heaviest usage of regretted covington. Free app more pry. There are more prizes besides that five hundred dollars and any child who lives or goes to school in covington is eligible and it runs all the way through december. Thirty first so get out there and win that challenge and win in that money. This is one of those times that screen time is a good thing. Get abc kids. Yeah okay so we do. We just mentioned helping out small businesses. This is a great opportunity for you to do. So if you are thinking about holiday shopping. And i don't know about you but i've already started like not even close to a couple of days ago. I'm talking like weeks ago. And here's a great opportunity for you to do. Just what you said help. Local businesses and it's called the exchange it's at newport on the levies. And the old. Barnes and noble is now kind of an indoor artisan market. I think of it is like a fancy crash. There and so people are selling everything from candles the clothing to all kinds of stuff on their food and drink It's eleven thousand square feet. So there's going to be a rotating mix of about fifteen local makers and merchants and that sort of the first round is all about holiday shopping again. This is fifteen stores in one so you could just walk in and knock everybody out in one fell swoop. It's open from eleven to seven monday through thursday eleven to nine on fridays and saturdays. Six on sundays and again it's indoors in so you know it's not going to be chilly. Willy so you can head on out and see the bridge box park if he like as well but just a really good option there. And if you're looking for more ideas for holiday gifts try the northern kentucky gift guy. That's going to be on the in kyi tribunals website it's ongoing articles and features a feature some wine beer and spirits and a lot lot more other really cool things that you can get so you can support local and and get some really creative interesting gift ideas Some of the experiences. Well as physical gifts so you can kind of do the gift card that you can use later once. It's a little bit safer. But the the boone county bourbon new riff abreu vineyards beer brewing in braxton They're all going to be on there. So it gives you some really cool. Interesting ideas in Speaking of braxton real quick bit of a side note dark charged. Jay is coming. It's like a whole week this year. Yeah more information about Next week i'm sure love to talk about beer on this thing. And i do this. Article really cool to bari mccoy. From scooter media wrote it. And it is chock full of any assistance for the adult in your life right so you definitely will have some ideas and not just your typical one so some cool holiday ideas for the cool adult in your life and jeremy. We can't close this out without ended a chain around up yet. How what a big week. Yeah we've got a lot of stuff going on. I mean. I i feel like a broken record saying that. We got a lot of stuff going on. You know. we just had our annual celebration last week. If you missed it you can catch it on our facebook page But also today in starting now. So if you're watching this you might wanna flip over to the women's initiative connect our. We also have the business after this week on thursday. So if you're looking for another happy hour we've got that Bourbon boards from the n. Y. p. That also happening this week. You have to register really soon here so soon as you're done watching this you need to go register for that. It's all about The nonprofit boards that exist in our region and how you can get involved in its virtual so you want to You can sign up But there are there's limited availability and the system that we're using for that we have to know by the end of the day today so go ahead and co sign up and then tomorrow morning is exit issues. Regional economic outlook. It's the biggest eggs of the year And it's super important we've got huntington bank coming on to talk about what's going on across the whole country as far as economic outlook is concerned and janet hera from k. Us going to be on talking about what's going on specific to our region like i said it's normally very well attended in it. It will be packed again this year. We've got lots of people email and ask him about it today. So don't miss that one in it's free this year since we are virtual though so get signed up for that and then it's thanksgiving we are not going to be. We're not gonna have podcast last week next week because of the thanksgiving holiday so we will cut you back in two weeks but That's how many headlines we're gonna have by then all right. We'll stick with this. How is the workforce situation in northern kentucky. We're going to talk about that with two people who know the answer and it's really an interesting conversations. Stick with us right here on the northern kentucky spotlight airport is the lowest airport in the tristate region with fifty four nonstop flights direct international service to seven destinations including paris france. And now home to both. Dhl's and amazon's global cargo hubs. The airport is furthering. Its position as leader in aviation and is deeply committed to being an economic driver for the community. You can learn more and start your next adventure at sea. Vga airport dot com and welcome back to the northern kentucky. Spotlight right now. we're talking. A combination of things workforce and nonprofits at all kinds of great citizens in our area. And we're going to bring in two folks. We're going to explain all this to us right now. We have back davidson from. Kentucky chamber workforce center. She's the executive director there and also mark you'll foil from v. l. law who was also the treasurer of the workforce center there. So thank you both for joining us today. You bet innkeeper having her a mark. Let's start with you. We all know. Dvr law and of us who've served on any boards. No that that you guys are out there in about doing. The lord's work with nonprofits. This is a real focal point for kind of how this whole development kind i came to be aetna its culture We like to encourage our lawyers to get involved in the community and really get involved. In whatever board or activity or endeavor speaks to them and And then further to encourage them to aspire to a leadership roles so that's part of who we are. It's the way we've always been and You know it's just great to be part of a group of people who are committed to be good lawyers of but also giving back to the community and being get citizens as well and that's kinda you to came together and all of this. So so beth explain to us. What this workforce center as those of us who don't know it's really not unusual. You guys were the first in the nation to put together yet Were unique model and proud to be on here with mark today. And i can definitely see that deals mission. Mark one of our founding board members out of the kentucky chambers for center so when we went to create this organization out of the kentucky chamber in twenty seventeen it was the first of its kind in the nation In all we knew. Is that the number. One goal is for us was to ensure that businesses had a really active engaged voice at the table as we build workforce across the state in kentucky and now since we built the workforce kentucky chamber. We see several other states followed suit But it can because of grapevines great business leaders like mark that that came that day back in twenty seventeen is a Let's get to work on workforce business leaders mark. What was it. What was it about this that that spoke to you You know kind of made you realize that you can make a difference. Well you know i I was on the board of the northern kentucky chamber. Back when i had brown hair longtime ago and In recent years i was asked to join the kentucky chamber board and through that involvements it was really the kentucky chamber that spawned the workforce center. And i've always had an interest in workforce if years katherine now and back notes. Now as well. It's a tremendous problem in northern But what i found with. I got involved with the workforce center one four years ago Every part of the state is having the same kinds of problems and different areas of the state are employing different ways to meet the challenge. And what i like about the workforce were not a top down organization. Can we try to find out what works for people in floyd county or you know hickman county out west and share those ideas with with employers across the state look for best practices. So it's really been exciting because then you can tell from thirty seconds with bath. She's very infectious as she is a a true leader and she's in several in incredible team. So it's just a pleasure to be part of the of the upper. let's talk about. What the workforce center does what your day to day. How can you help folks and businesses alike. Yeah i think words mark. I'm the number one issue of the day for businesses. Always workforce is workforce or course workforce in that that's with the economy booming or in times when we were in one of the greatest recessions that we've ever had back in twenty two thousand ten. I mean it's it's always workforce but it's what you do about it that really matters and so wicked workforce center at the kentucky chamber. We've got several different programs at our portfolio that can team but runs from the workforce center so one of the things we do focus is on its program called bus business and your that's an initiative that the board really came up with we had a little bit of a budget leftover surplus and we ask board. What do you want to do with this money. And mark and his peers around the table said we need to get involved with schools. Business leaders need to get engaged with schools. We have got to get these kids earlier before they get out. And so that senators pilot initiative last year we had twelve hundred students across the state go to businesses on wednesday tore those different career pathways that were available and now this year in lieu of covid is all virtual program and we've got thirteen thousand students already in the first three weeks of the of the program we're going to host it all year long Get students really engaged. With businesses touring businesses virtually understanding. What career pathways are available. What what type of earnings you can you can make. What kind of career in education You need to obtain to to be on us. that plays So that's one program another program. We run is our workforce recovery program and so kentucky we've been hit really hard by epidemic by substance use disorder in general and find that it really really hinders our workforce participation and so in the last eighteen months we've trained about four thousand business leaders on how to update their hr policies and practices and how to be recovery friendly in fair chance employers and we launched a fair chance hiring campaign give those second chances for individuals. Coming out of incarceration and in the past three four months. We've recruited six thousand second chance what we like to call for your chance jobs for individuals that come out of incarceration get them meaningfully. Engaged back into the workforce. Alaska certainly not least we have are talent pipeline management program which pulls businesses from all across the state together by regions to mark's point. It's really easy for us in frankfort To look across the state and say this is what needs to be done but quite frankly the magic happens in those communities boots on the ground the employers live in those communities the educators that are bare. They know what needs to happen. So this works on that method to really get to the to the heart of what employers need as far as workforce's concerned in based on those demand projections works with educators. Works with workforce providers to billtown pipelines based on the needs of business lakisha miller The northern kentucky resident she directs this entire system for us across the state and she's she's right there northern kentucky with her counterpart door. That morgan who helps run the town initiative in partnership with the northern kentucky chamber. That has a lot of stuff. You're it's it. Now's workers current workers future workers businesses. Everybody enrolled in there together mark. Let's let's talk about specifically what northern kentucky. i mean. you having been here for awhile. Where does workforce stand. Where is this what does it look like for Not just looking for work but those who are looking for employees as well you know. I never seen of the workforce environment so Upset i guess maybe the best word right now Somebody who knows These things told me the other day that there are five thousand job openings in northern kentucky right now and I have a son who lives out in the boon canning out drive through the industrial art. And you'll see banners on the side mu via in osh they're offering signing bonuses to get people to come to work right now. We have amazon coming into town of. That's a that's a an interesting development. We have covert. We have a lot of people who are laid off so it's it's a very Kind of mixed bag right now. So it's it's harder employers to navigate But i think we really don't want to take our eye off of this allen pipeline management because that effort is really employer driven. It's employer spinally saying in having a vehicle to say you know in the next three or five years we're going to need x. number of nurses aids your hospital or a nursing home or you know an automotive distributor needs so many welders or whatever so we plugged that in it's data driven. We collect the data and then we get with what we call them. The providers might be gateway or commerce more northern kentucky university or other worst providers to let them know train these types of jobs. Because that's what we've been a need so we've had a problem in the past were. There's been a gap between you know what type of person we've been graduating with skills. They come out of school with and the jobs that are available. So i just see that effort is incredibly valuable It's already paying dividends and as we get more and more employers used to that kind of effort in seeing that it works And can work through them. I think we're going to be at a much organization that the having dealt with the entire state. Where where do you see northern kentucky. you know. we're very lucky to have a lot of higher education institutions. That's not always the answer for every workforce a problem And like you said getting into the high schools and things like that. How are we doing as a region in developing that workforce. Well i mean. Northern kentucky has been a hotbed economically for for years now and you tend to outpace the rest of the state when it comes to economic development by a bit. You're one of the probably the hottest markets that we have as far as economic development is concerned into mark's point in even in the of kobe the talent i mean we i think we think of all the economy is down in for some cases that is absolutely true with there are employers that are screaming for talent right now and we have to keep in mind that the workforce is continuing to shrink and so these issues will not go away. We just have less kids than we used to. And people out firstly Covert are like by. I'm retiring i am done. And so we can't take our eyes off the ball. If you think about the economic development growth that kentucky has has experienced you think about major companies like amazon coming in to northern kentucky. We want to welcome them with open arms. You don't wanna be afraid of what that means for our workforce and so when we think about the state it spends one point. Two billion dollars in workforce education resources on our citizens which is great. But what you know what right-minded business person whatever spend one point two billion dollars without really understanding the needs of the consumer so what we really work to do with town. Pipeline management and throughout northern kentucky is to put those employers needs. I we like to think of workforce in education that the end customer of those products really is businesses in. So when you can train up and skill up your citizens in the way. That businesses need workforce's shrinking. We can't afford not to really help. So i think i think kentucky is coming together get in ways that it hasn't it really is kind of it's done pointing fingers and saying we have workforce issues. We know we do the whole country. Does it's going to happen. Win the workhorses shrinking like it is in the economy is doing what it's doing. But it's just how you meaningfully pool. Employers the table to be an active part of that decision in building those pipelines. What certainly sounds like the work or center is part of that success so we thank you both in mark for joining us today and thank you for all your work that you guys are doing. Solidifying that workforce not only northern kentucky but across the commonwealth as. Well thank you catherine our guys. Thank you and everyone else. You've got gotta stick around. We'll be right back on the northern kentucky spotlight. The northern kentucky chamber helps our businesses pearls. It's what we do for marketing and advertising opportunities like member of the day for guests on spotlight we help our businesses grow by celebrating milestones with ribbon cutting and promoting mass assess. When you get out in northern kentucky chamber provides resources that support business growth started stage to company maturity for more information visit chambered dot com slash. Join us helping businesses grow. It's what we do and welcome back into northern kentucky. Spotlight appreciate your being here today and you know what if you've stuck around this long you can do us one more favor just hit share if you're watching this on facebook subscribe. If you're listening to this we'd appreciate it. Because the more the merrier from headlines they good or bad to business openings and really important discussions about workforce in our area so we appreciate you joining us. Jeremy sharon we have a week off next week as celebrate thanksgiving. Yes as i mentioned earlier. We're going take. I'm and take the whole week off. And i am going to attempt to make pumpkin cheesecake l. Cap would normally normally for thanksgiving. We go to my father in house in florida. And we're we're gone for a week and it's great but we're kind of trying to Social distance from family this year and he normally buys a cheesecake pumpkin cheesecake from cheesecake factory. And i was like. I think i'm going to try to make that this year. So triggers crossed fingers crossed for you at the how kanako wrong. I mean even if it's not great it's going to taste good right. It's like they have all the district directions and gotta bake it in of water. Yeah keep it. From cracking. And i'm like cares cracks. It'll mash it up and put it in a bowl of. That's what it takes all right. Well there you go if you need a side dish. It's cheesecake pudding or something like that. Jerry thank you happy thanksgiving a week in advance and Thanks once again to all of you for listening and for watching once again we appreciate your joining us here on the northern kentucky spotlight. We'll see in a few weeks. I've been thanks giving you.

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The InFocus Interview Show with Dixie Dixon | Photofocus Podcast August 30, 2019

Photofocus Podcast

31:23 min | 1 year ago

The InFocus Interview Show with Dixie Dixon | Photofocus Podcast August 30, 2019

"You're listening to infocus interview. Show brought to you by photo focused dot com an online publication filled with education and inspiration for visual storytellers sick. This episode is made possible by our partners. Loom loom cube the world's most versatile light and robo a smart storage solution. Now here's your host bonelli hello and unwelcome on bonelli and i'm location here in chicago at click on and i have an extremely special guest today. She's an amazing of a fashion photographer. She does a lot of stuff in the industry. When it comes to the business side of photography she's none other than uh-huh dixie dixon. I'm so excited to talk with you today. You have incredible classes here. Click on the last class. I just walked acted on was that was the fashion photography crash course. There's a lot of information engaged before i go into that. I think the reason when you're one of the top educators around is a your knowledge is phenomenal able to disseminate that information to people and to where you're like. Hey look this is how i do it. There's other ways of doing this. What i do what can you do and i watched her video that you put on those awesome energy excitement and your spirit so i thought about this. She's gorgeous extremely talented. Talk to ask you to be honest with me ugly. Try the braces earlier was a band nerd and yeah definitely say that all the years of teaching. I've noticed beautiful women without attitudes older because they knew what it was like in the past second house. I was always beautiful. That's a in the cool crowd. Never growing up without you are so i don't know sell we joke about this for the listeners. The reason why i'm bringing this up is because dixie does have an incredible way of remembering where she came from his photographer and i've watched so it's an educator myself what you teach how you teach it right and one thing i really liked was that you remember what it was like starting out and that's ashworth think a lot of photographers again just like in the martial arts a lot of black belts. Forget what it was like a white belt. You're like dude. Don't you remember when you were white. You gotta keep your roots and you definitely have very strong roots. No let's talk about the class. I just saw some of the key points. You're trying to bring out yeah. So i kind of gave i mean an hour course i tried to go through all the really main points of of how how to get into the fashion industry how to you know work with clients how to build your dream team <hes> how to do marketing just so many things i just threw a ton of information mation everyone <hes> so it was really really fun class and show them. How long have you been really hard. Core doing fashion russian work yeah. I've been doing that about. I would say eight years eight. Years should be realistic and again. I'll go back to the crotty. We take one karate. Lesson doesn't make you oh well. I can defend myself at any situation. Unfortunately a lot of people will come to conferences like this and they'll think why of course of course on that you took one course our course that she's developed an eight year so my suggestion is if you love what they heard what you were speaking. Look at your books. Go online follow you so and look at the different you have different courses out there on the subject i do so did like you. Were mentioning with them. As you asked about model release forms yes so what are some of your the experiences of the oldies yeah i mean i just i'm always so crazy with model releases because one of my very first clients was actually kodak <hes> they ah i had shot a bunch of portraits of friends and i always have people signed walter lisa's but <hes> in code i ended up purchasing some of the images that i had shot and they obviously ask for the model releases so it's just important when you're working with companies and stuff like that to have those on file so you don't have to go and find people <hes> but usually when i do that i if i get a licensed image then i'll go back and pay whoever it is i shot you know fee <hes> for their for their image being used and <hes> usually traffic model the release or handwritten so nikon actually requires handwritten. They don't even allow they actually make so that we have to get them notarized as well so actually they had my producer get her notary so that she could be onset new to notarize suspect that makes sense that makes sense because you're on satin yes and when you're in a controlled environment totally models to the bank that totally makes sense the other photographers. There's easy released his his great yup so here's what my suggestion was always been. They signed him on a release and in photographers please if the model does not ah receive a copy the contract is void just if you want to buy a car and you buy a car but they don't give you a contract oh right copy except so here's what i like to do is take that p._d._f. And put it in the exact fold world image saw i do that too. That's so good and and i tell people if the if you don't usually electric than a pitcher oh yeah genius scan. Your iphone makes it inset set p._d._f. And you can email it out the bad experience i had. It wasn't really about me we went on so we shot a buddy of mine. Andy came in part in this model which is incredible. Shoot young kid onset those who were flirting back and forth you're just like okay whatever so we're doing this shoot and and he's new and the razzing on each other at the very end of the shoot. We didn't have them fill out the release four in the beginning at the very end. She looked at his images and said don't like any of these. Oh no. I'm not gonna sign the release and we thought she was joking. Oh gosh us and i she signed ours and hey what about is and she goes. No i don't want those images being shown. I hate and i said oh oh my god that was a perfect lesson and this was for a free shoe right so wait a second. You traded your time for his his time. So what does he get out of this and so i said to him you know what that's a perfect lesson. Always gets release form signed up front up front and i told her i gotta be honest with you. I don't wanna work with you yeah. We'll watch for you that if it were a page looks donating your time oh gosh charlottesville bottle release was one and then you talk about insurance. Did goodness would experience so i used to use state farm and that was brutal because they didn't understand the industry at all when i would need a certificate of insurance a cli you're y to have everything documented for location releases to to be able to shoot at locations. They would take like two weeks to get back to me and with photography. You know clients. It's i might need a location released like the following day or the day of so. I found this company t._c._p. Insurance and they will literally get the c._o._o. Is back to you within mike two or three hours <hes> so i i work from a lot. They charge a little like the. I think it's maybe twenty bucks for a c._e._o. I but it's like instant this again. Ah okay so you're in texas. I'm in a small town called melbourne florida okay just outside of orlando we we loved it because we always know boring was always well became one of the top one of the top five place live well now. The place erupted. I've never had a bit of a permanent really never are that's amazing for richer harrington onset. We were shooting in d._c. Oh my lord they had to jump through. Oh yeah to me for me to shoot for course for lincoln learning. Now i understand in that case with generators. Oh yeah a ton of stuff at one point. They wanted us to hire a police officer so that i i understand if you're taking over a public area photographers. Go and find out what you need. Yes <hes> for that. If it's just just a light stand park you're fine forgiveness but yes yes as long as you're not distributing the flow exactly so that that worked out for me from my experience with insurance is my son was born actually birthday today and i'll be twenty three years old taw aw i never missed a birthday. Today i call six a._m. The love of god did it's okay. I'm older to understand. It's a special day for me only sweet that's where he was born in nineteen ninety-six and we're up to syracuse catholic baptism everything at christmas home because my father was a deacon. We came back january six. I walk into my karate school. I have all my photography and all of my computers and stuff in there i came in. He's a florida baby up in the because he got sick. It was only a few months old so i left all my backups everything at the karate school back then. You wouldn't remember what they're called. Cyclists drives little little square desk hundred left all of my backups. Everything karate school went home next day. They came in everything was stolen. How backups everything so. I lost every that makes my heart went to the insurance companies and that's why i do a lot of stuff withdraw bow people how to do proper backups and then put up to the cloud rights but for the insurance the guys we had twenty grand a year and he gave me four thousand and it that makes sense he said to us all this for personal use our no and i said no. I do photography on the side these well that photography equipment is in part of your karate school. Oh my god we can only pay you whatever it was for. They wouldn't cover the full amount because it's not the same so homeowners insurance <hes> not the same as your business right very different. Oh true show filing claims at all. I have not playfully yeah. Thankfully yes now. What about your cover to is travel travel quite a bit outside the country so let's even yes it is. We usually try to rent gear when we travel though so i usually just bring my cameras and then we'll rent we'll go to pro or whatever shrike onset so we don't have to travel with all that rachel plus you save on costs. Yes totally so you talked-about model release forms talked about insurance. What else are you covering the clash so building your dream team yeah so i work with <hes> actually work with an amazing using producer <hes> so now she's basically in my company. Basically in <hes> yes nancy love her. She's <hes> she keeps me eh sane and organiz so she basically talked about what makes up and dream team <hes> commercially so it's the producer who books all the models and the talent it as well as scheduling like meals and shot list and all that the schedule for the day and then doing all the invoicing bidding estimating so she does all of that in my business <hes> and then i'll have a wardrobe onset to wardrobe makeup hair <hes> models so it's kind of a big crew and i also have a lighting being <hes> tech who's amazing work with him and on on every job as well so they're like my go-to crew and the show for those are listening. Thank you for huge commercial stuff that you're doing now. Let's back up for a little bit. You didn't obviously start that way no model are you self taught or oh you. Formerly taught both okay. I mean i don't know assist a lot of photographers okay. Here's what we talked about. I've written many articles calls on this <hes>. Do you need to be formally trained so in the martial-arts thankfully from a strong bloodline of champions racial racial. My brother was heavily champion. Arm structure was a champion his instructor and then we went on and so we'll see a second who taught his instructor structure instructor at some point. Somebody will self taught right so with photography. There's nothing wrong with being self. If you go it looked so maybe it'll go to college for it but i'm sure you've taken many classes and like you said you've assisted and we just talked to mike macey wants to go. We'll see as you age on telling interns spend two years and set totally so if you screw up because enough people around that can fix your mistakes gear rate but you learned everything from knowing how to taking a light how to put a sandbag. Oh yes i can't tell you how many have no clue how do the cords the names or anything like stinger. Gary coleman like stand. You know there's always different p._c. Here's this she's perfect. Perfect apple box apple. It's situated so and he offered you to come on. It was a little but cabezas very strong on assisting and it's great to hear and i guess looking looking at some of the stuff that you're doing now. It makes sense. I definitely yes so. She must've assisted for awhile here so you said it. Was you in one <music> bottle. How did it transpire yeah. So it's kind of interesting. I feel like some of my growing moments where i was thrown into it so so my first time working with crew on <hes> set for h._d. Net television which is now access television <hes> so. I got to be the still photographer for the t._v. Show i we got to see like how this works and how the models will get ready in a motor home on the beach and then go out and shoot and it was funny because the dp that we had <hes> bill garcia as amazing guy really really talented but he noticed that i had a really cool fun connection with the models i was shooting so he ended up letting me do some of the directing set which was really fun because it was kind of a smaller crew as far as t._v. Show goes is more docu reality <hes> so he ended up letting me direct the models as i was shooting and he would film like i like next to me so i've gotten very used as shooting alongside of a cinematographer and it's just like this cool collaborative experience <hes> so i went from that was my first commercial job and then i booked my first campaign which was for flourish. I'm shoes <hes>. I got an agent and they were thinking about signing me. I was pretty fresh out of college <hes> <hes> and then i ended up sending this art director that they knew my work and the unit booking me on the sheet so they ended up signing the. I don't think they had would have signed me. Had i not books that job and i thought oh i've made it like this is the moment no two years go by. I don't think i had another commercial job would dig it. Oh man this is brutal. Intra far listeners this common theme. Yes agent like done deal. No freeman and rick freeman talks about that freeman is photographed every presidential candidate since jimmy carter and at a young age yeah he nailed all the front cover of newsweek or something so he was taught this stuff's easy later he appeared again but it took you that long when he's like oh man. This is the easiest. I thought it was constant battle because people people see you now and taylor won the inter. We brought down. She's in love with you and and lindsay adler and i love because we need more females females. They've never been affirmative action type person. I have always felt wherever and get the job done. Hopefully gets the job. I agree with that but at the same time with her uh-huh she could relate better totally to a female because we talked images this week you see the absolutely phenomenal young twenty year old self taught phenomenal girl looked at one of them and i said well did you in the shot with the guy had that is break coming down. What were you thinking here and she said well he wanted. Okay well. What did you do use why shot it. Did you move it yep. Let me wait a second. Were you commanding. The set or was he well. He was <hes> was so because i'm a male female thing and sure enough a chauvinistic interesting so i met her with tracy really see. I haven't talked with tracy yesterday as tracy. How do you deal with the male apologize right now. Ahead of time mm-hmm please my friends. The male engineer who's an engineer by trade and their analytical thinkers and all of a sudden. They questioned her right. Am i wrong. No you're you're. I don't know people don't question right. That's i've never heard someone communicate that so well because happens a lot. I was listening to one angle angle holy crap what the girl looked at these yep. I've never heard this before. Are you telling her. This is a guy felt so due to move along and she goes. Oh my god i said i i've never i've never seen it before but yeah but the the whole manning the set so she said to her. Oh yeah that happened once. Trust me. I put the guy politely in his place yes and with you. You're so lovable sweet. I can see somebody okay. That's one way of doing it in a deep inside your son of a wanna do to you no but i'm very careful about about who i hire on my crew because if i do get a super dominant personality onset that's very voice boisterous s. and loud and you know. I have to be very careful of who allow them. I set i'm very calm and collective when i shoot. I'm not overly direct to'real. Oh i'm very like i don't know peaceful in the way that i do get. You have an energy energy. You give your energy. There's more of a zen com yet. You have some crazy wild. Here's the thing if you want to become a great leader. You have to be a great follower. Yes let's if you want to become a teacher. You have to become a great student yes and when we're on set a lot of times i'll have my interest or the assistance and i'll say say hey guess what we're in charge. I'm a second shooter yeah so i'm assisting you. Whatever you tell me to do i do. Oh my god. I've never seen you go from down to because i'm not in charge you are if you want to advice if you look and say what do you think about this. I'm just i'm finding difficulty. I'll step in and help until you say rights so well said well said set on set could be very selective on. Let's come on set because that's his job. Oh absolutely the <hes> every everything think that reputation because we've we've worked for some people like i had a a hair salon makeup artists that was belittling the model in his chair. Yeah what you don't have to shoot that girl after like photograph after this so i took him aside and took him outside of big talk with him and was going to happen leave if he didn't. He said he would get his act together so i i actually had a friend educator literally. Make make this group of people feel incompetent that side. I don't see some of the martial-arts was easy because we would patron ixelles. I suppose people would say oh. You're right. Oh my god what the next time we all god. I hope you don't do that to me and then you beat the crap out of yeah and then you tell them oh. It must've got lucky to the next time getting the point telling me the marsh large it was easy you can't do that. It's more of a dance tired. I wish we could do that but you know well. That's good so you proved your control. Your commanding the set <hes> look. I'm in charge of the site here. I'll listen to input but let's not forget breath when all said and done it's your name exactly and if they screw up my name the job they screw up because you don't onset you're out of a career right and a client exactly and they don't know exempt one bad could could you imagine if other clients heard a. They hear all these incredible things about you so that's what they want. Oh so it's awesome. So what are some of your other classes. You have yeah. I did a big lighting class yesterday so we talked about all things uh-huh lighting from what your go-to lighting setup lining yearlong. Oh you know i talked about naturally go to lighting gear sure <hes>. I love the prophet o._b. Once awesome we always use onset or shooting stills and video though will usually use a video light like r._e._m. Eighteen try favor light streets amazing but they're very heavy and costly. I think they're like two hundred data rent yeah but for cool commercial stuff. There's a budget et love that it's not what you really bees or something more. Showing natural light yeah naturally went basically from natural light and the basics to constantly constantly to building lighting setups from the hardware store. We kind of do some d._i._y. Stuff expensive it is light is like totally and people don't swear naturally photographers say well. I don't need that flash. Stop light light is don't you look at the portrait photographer wall never shooting natural light really want late is life right. Now can shape all of it you you can't see in here for those. No dick's beautiful beautiful she is. We have an overhead light shining perfect as we're talking died. I grabbed my camera with a little portrait richard session here. I'll have a blue water cooler behind her and i know that if i take shot that's going to blur out perfectly with this light so it's photography and we always walk into a room a copy shop like the light of amazing over there. Actually i was heading here from florida on escalators moving moving walkways. Yes i wanna walkway and there's a door like six year old little girl dancing dancing the walkway spinning around at that moment. I honestly said lord. Please grant me for the rest of my life to live through the eyes of a child. There's there's special moments everything you see. Oh yeah and there's this little kid dancing around. She turned around and walked as if she's walking backwards so what's going on and i looked at the mother and oh by god. She's precious issues. You know what she is and i'm so glad to hear what's your traveling. You're exhausted and here's this little kid playing. I thought god please let me look through the eyes child because you're so close close to write out a source to so called amazing so much great work of people find more about dixie yeah so my instagram cam is i. It's under i a m dixie dixon. I am dixie. Dixon dixie dixon wasn't available. I know line one post man. I wish my name is available. The old days really stinks thinks they were call. Call aren't what they call them but they would act pepsi and stuff and they would have to know me. Totally hold for ransom so frustrated. Bonelli is taking. Can you spell it. The an ally well there was a company in which very famous <hes> seafood but that's out of our family spells it with two ends yeah got it. Gene kelly is a famous singer so he spells it with two ends so crazy so but we have wanted i i for years to get padilla dot com and they have it and they won't won't relinquish so nope dixie dixon. I am dixie chicks in dixie dixon dot com do a lot of facebook or i do some facebook yeah mainly my personal page. My personal as is is open to the public or whatever that means <hes>. I don't update my fan page much. I always feel weird about a fan pain. Ugly the whole child your mother just text us. We're proud of mary's always says to me because you know vanilla part of the family when his mother texting you mother will catch me every so often looks like my twin. She's single or married growers the siblings walsum so you say well that's perfect. They should have the facebook stuff. You're the fan the fan page they wanted to what you're doing. Yeah and i do a lot of stupid stuff. I'm not coli photoshop world my son. My son is i were identical. Never met hate matt hayward from adobe job so they'll be stuck having breakfast. I'm up in my room. They gave me a sweet taste out in the bathrobes and slippers and he looks over overskated along with these guys and we all love it l. e. I could see this and we want those a white. Those that white lamborghini lamborghini their rates were the bathroom boys and people thought fashion shoot and then of course we took that new girl taylor ooh we took her to dave and buster's and there were in the bathrobes can tell you wanna bathrobe. Well now became a thing people. You want me to get bathrobes fidel friends of the back owner because again that that belongs <hes> on your personal fund page. This is my character do right on the business. Page rates no clients from a look at that and go. I really want this guy right my set so so the balance their clients do love fun people though too true under instagram is filled with a lot of behind the yeah yeah i mean all my social media stuff is pretty pretty professional. I don't <hes> i tend to keep you you know personal life pretty separate so much exclusive photo plus. I'll be photo plus speaking king and got a lot of travel coming up and a lot of really fun gigs coming up social. You guys make sure you follow. Are you doing a lot stuff in twitter or not. As as much on twitter automatically updates it i i. It's just words for me for whatever reason i not build yeah huge twitter you following certain and we'll talk doesn't lend itself as much to twitter. I feel like wordsmiths and advertising twitter. Take time checker out at photo plus or your book on yet. It's called fashion sean lifestyle photography show for well. He think you so much for having such a blast of the deli with photo focus. You're listening to the infocus interview show. If you like these interviews be sure to subscribe to our weekly the photo focus podcast on photo focus dot com. Thank you for joining us.

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Do Home Run Records Matter Anymore? Plus: Gleyber Torres Bludgeons the Orioles and the AL Central Is Shifting | The Ringer MLB Show

The MLB Show

1:03:22 hr | 1 year ago

Do Home Run Records Matter Anymore? Plus: Gleyber Torres Bludgeons the Orioles and the AL Central Is Shifting | The Ringer MLB Show

"Hey kelly and welcome to the ringer podcast network season two of h._b._o. Succession is back and the ring chris ryan and jason concepcion are here to give you the latest latest and roy family drama every sunday night. They'll be breaking down what we just saw on our new show called number one voice a succession after show you can tune in live on the ringers twitter order every sunday night right after the episode ends hello and welcome to the rear m._l._b. Show my name is michael obama and i'm a staff writer at the ringer. We've got a lot of ground to cover today but before we get started i wanted direct you to my piece on my beloved lance lynn the best pitcher in the american league for real this time. It's now up at the ringer dot com. You can go read that after you're done listening to this episode <hes> which we're going to get started right now. Was that graham all right. Let's kick kick this off with zach cram sack. Thank you for joining me hello. I you wanna talk about diggers which is good 'cause. We got lots of them yet. We've had lots of them for. We're a few years now but this year more than ever before and it's got me thinking as we've seen both individual records being set and team team records being challenged <hes> as we approach the end of the season. I think i wanna have a conversation about whether the overall environment sap some some of the excitement from these record chases so we can talk about that. I also put together just a little game where i came up with a couple of different possible double record chases and i am curious how excited you are about each of these potentialities so just like give me a rating from one to ten where one you're. You're not excited at all ten your following every at bat to see if this record could be broken on each of these following records. Does that make sense. Yes all right so the first one is a team home run record within the team so basically like the other day. The twins set the franchise record for home runs do you you care about team. Franchise home run records on wanted ten like a three yeah like maybe if it was. I think that's an interesting a piece of trivia but unless it's my team i'm not following along. That's the kind of thing i look up at the end of the season and go oh that's nice. I don't think even with my favorite team until the the yankees set the overall home run record a couple years ago. I couldn't have even named bear actual franchise record for most team home runs and i think if you don't know what the record visits hard to gin up excitement about three might actually be too high okay so next is a little more ambitious. It's the overall not run record which the twins have a chance of breaking this year the record set by the yankees in two thousand seventeen at two hundred sixty. Seven home runs the twins right right. Now are on pace for three hundred thirteen yet. This is like a five or six th this is. The only one that i'm interested in that is gonna get broken this year. Yeah and that's just that's for two reasons one. It's the twins and like this is sort of a brand for last year's yankees to break this record than it is for. This year's twins to break the record. The other thing is they're gonna fucking demolish. They're gonna get there before september first and they're going to put daylight between them. In the previous uh-huh misspoke the is the last year not twenty-seven zine was a twenty-seven was lomb. Okay all right yeah. That's right because that was the that was stamps. I yeah so anyway yes. I'm interested in that record like i said because of who's doing it and how much you're gonna break it by yeah. I think if it were not what if they were going to break the record with two hundred seventy home runs i would be less interested but the fact that they're going to break it. By so much is adds is another layer to it which leads me to the next record which is the home runs allowed record so that record is currently held by the twenty sixteen reds who allowed two two hundred fifty eight home runs. The orioles are already at two hundred forty eight this year. They should break it this week that are on pace for three hundred thirty seven one to ten where aria now. I don't care even other going to break it by so much to yeah. I mean horn allowed records. Are i think by definition dot is interesting the only like their snow. I don't even know who's giving up. The most home runs as a pitcher for our individual caesar allowed fifty. Oh was it really <hes> at interesting. The other thing is like that doesn't necessarily mean you're bad <hes> if you give up a lot of homerun maybe the two thousand sixteen reds in the twenty nine hundred orioles or the the wrong teams to make that argument about but like justin verlander giving up a ton of home runs. I follow just because jamie more broke it. <hes> bertha individual career home runs allowed record when he was with the phillies doubt i was sort of aware of and i think that just sort of speaks to and he broke robin roberts record and robin roberts is one of the best pitchers ever <hes> so you know maybe within a season season within a team that says less <hes> about that says more about quality but like i don't know if you're going to individual but individ individual records like that just mean you're pitching innings to me and from the team perspective i think this is an example of where the current ball dilutes the excitement because if you look at the home run hit record obviously like teams in the nineteen sixty s weren't hitting a lot of home runs and the record was set just last year the previous record was held by the ninety seven mariners but but even within the top of the home runs hit leaderboard you have teams that were playing in either medium or lower homerun ayres like the twenty ten bluejays are tied for fourth all time mm two thousand ten was not a hugely <hes> home run hitting era but that's when you had jose bautista sort of the start of the blue jays run so that's a memorable team for that reason if you look at the home runs allowed record the top five are all since twenty sixteen in the top ten are all either from the steroids era worsens twenty sixteen eighteen so basically the only way to rise atop. The leaderboard is to allow a lot of home runs in these homerun hitting eras and there's not that much. I think that's differentiating these these teams from one another yeah. There's not like an interesting story yeah and that's that goes back to the twins thing. That's an interesting story. Yeah i think a record you not only need the number are behind it but you need the story to especially if it's going to be something memorable and that leads to the next one which are the remaining ones are all individual player records so naturally they probably have some more storylines but the first one is individual team homerun records so the fact that pete alonzo's going to set the mets. It's franchise record for homers. Jorges allaire is going to set the royals franchise record one to ten. How excited are you. I'd say like that's like a six or seven. I think like you said individual records are i think by by their nature more interesting than team records it helps in the in alonzo lonzo in the mets case that there's like a coherent narrative not only about alonzo but like i remember todd humbly <hes> <hes> setting that record and like that was it was sort of an interesting player in an interesting time so i'm more excited about that than the the royals record the royals just setting the royals home run record. Just who is is the definitive royals power hitter and i think that's where i'm less interested in this. I'm really only interested in single season team records. If they've stood for a really long time i kind of you this like the olympics where when i look at i'm a big running fan and when i look at like world records for running i'm less interested in the ones that have been set recently just keep dropping by a second or two every year and i'm much more interested in the ones that were set in nineteen ninety five and haven't been broken since the wade van niekerk kirk and they're go and like the royals are a perfect example for this. I was so much more interested in the royals franchise home run record when it was is held by steve balboni from nineteen thousand five where no royal had out hit him in thirty years even in the steroids era but then might mistake it has the record now in that just so much less captivating to me. There's so much less of a story. They're just oh yeah. There was a royallieu hit. A lot of home runs when other guys were hitting runs. I think the fact that so many any franchises might see their records turnover this year. <hes> makes each individual one less compelling that makes sense. I think that makes a ton of sense okay next. Stop is any other individual homerun record that is not bonzes so like the rookie homerun record alonzo is currently on pace for fifty two runs aaron touches rookie homerun record is fifty two home runs or any other homerun record like <hes> aquino from the reds setting with the most home runs in x. games mark art. Are any of those interesting to you. The home runs had x. Games marks are more fun more what ben in san what are called fun facts than <hes> like actual stats or trivia to me. <hes> that just feels like that feels like the color used in a story rather than the story itself off. I actually i'm a big fan of the rookie homered. I think that's a a an important <hes> important mark because speaking of marks like it was mark mcgwire's for forever for and they were so why special when aaron judge broken a couple years ago and i think even though that's a relatively recent record like if alonzo it's it's an appointment where it really like of getting over fifty was big because like just getting to forty nine it. It was almost surprised that nobody broken before judge <hes> says i guess maybe this is just because i came up. The baseball i learned to watch was steroid steroid era baseball but forty nine home runs doesn't seem like a record that ought to stand for thirty years so <hes>. I'm interested in yeah. I'm definitely interested in a lonzo breaking the the rookie homerun record if when he gets there what was interesting is i believe judge and maguire are the only two rookies ever to hit. Even forty home runs our. I yeah i remember 'cause bellinger hit like thirty nine. Yeah nationally record yeah so alonzo's going to become the thirty i just checked judge with fifty two and maguire with forty-nine are the only rookie is ever to reach even forty so that shows is the distance between them and every other rookie and it's very cursory so i guess that's almost more interesting to me because alonzo's going to do that regardless than whether he ends up with fifty one or fifty three. I'm still interested in him. Getting a fifty fifty three okay next step is just in general hitting fifty home runs. How excited or you buy somebody raising. Fifty home runs in this era six. I think that that's i'm more excited now by that now that i would have been during the steroid era because like it feels like the steroid era turned thirty five homerun hitters into fifty homerun hitters and forty-five homerun hitters in sixty five or seventy homerun hitters and the juice ball like it feels like it turns twelve guys who hit twelve home runs into guys who had twenty twenty five home runs and that's just not without those spectacular individual marks that aggregate is less exciting like a couple of years ago it was was a twenty seventeen sixteen or seventeen that that freddie galvez hit twenty home runs and there was like some outrageously like like the the record for guys who had twenty home runs in a season was was shattered and in twenty hundred hitters are that interesting to me but like fifty still means something yeah and even amid this high homerun era like you're saying. We don't get that many guys reaching fifty. If you go by decade so before nineteen ninety there were sixteen seventeen players in major league history who were seventeen seasons in which a player reached fifty home runs so that included -cluded like four ruth seasons a few mantle seasons etc in the nineties. There were twelve so that speaks to just the explosion of home runs nineties but even in the two thousands there were twelve more because he had bonds and sosa at the beginning of the decade you had rodriguez through the decade aide and then you had like ryan howard's fifty eight homers season and david ortiz hit fifty four one ear so it was still about at least once a season a guy was hitting fifty home runs now listed there have only been four judge stanton in two thousand seventeen chris davis in his big breakout year and jose bautista his breakout your back in two thousand ten so even towards the latter half of this decade which has seen really high home run totals throughout the league. We've only seen two fifty home run seasons so as somebody who wasn't really paying much attention during the right there. I was too young to follow. The system is word focusing yet to the sosa mcgwire chase. I vaguely remember berg the bonds chase. That's the first one i really remember. I am still excited by fifty home. Run season even this year with a lot of home runs. The top guys is our only on pace for like fifty to fifty three and i think that's also where the player comes in like as a fan of baseball esoterica. I'm really interested. I said in the seasons where like greg von hit fifty home runs. That's interesting to me but it's also really cool when a superstar hits fifty for the first time which mike trout for winston has a chance of doing this year. I think that would be pretty interesting. I yeah i want to backtrack a little bit and say like team. Homer run records. If it's in like the mid to upper fifties dis those get really exciting. <hes> you know when stan got their own. Ryan howard got their ken griffey junior with the mariners fifty six like those are numbers that that i still remember i think it and honestly i would like it weirdly like trout sort of feels weird just because i don't think of him as purely a home run hitter the way i i would stanton her judge or <hes> maybe pete alonzo turns into this definitive home run hitter over the next few years <hes> but not like griffey getting into the fifties was big. You know stanton getting into the fifties for the first time like you said was big ryan howard ortiz these like titanic power hitters <hes> so like if trout does it. I know solaris up on that. I actually do not have a good handle handle on on the m._l._b. Homerun leaderboard right now <hes> here we go like if trout or christian yelich and they're tied for the major league lead right now with thirty nine and like one of them getting to fifty just feel weird like like they just they're just good player. You're great players all around as opposed to you know i guess cody bellinger's turned into a great all around player but i still think of him as a power hitter i and so it would be i weirdly it will be more impressive if like alonzo ballinger were nelson cruz got way up there. It will be more impressive than if try to reality got a fifty year fifty to fifty five yeah. I think there is a difference in kind. If someone like nelson cruz hits fifty versus trout the one thing i'll say about trout is it's far far far too early to even consider this but by the end of the season isn't mike trout will have the fifth most voice of any player through age twenty seven and i just want to make a note that obviously alex rodriguez was ahead of the pace he has forty more home runs than anyone else the rates twenty-seven and for myriad reasons he fell short of bonds record word in fifth place right now the guy who is going to pass soon as albert pulses teammate <hes> and we have seen how his chase is going to fall short but just like over the next few years. Keep keep it in the back of your mind especially if mike trout who now i i mean it's still weird to think of him that way because i still kind of think of him as the guy who burst onto the scene stealing stealing forty-nine basis but he's gonna hit. Maybe fifty home runs for the first time he's going to lead the league in home runs for the first time probably he's the power hitter now and it's not out of the question to start watching those leader boards and seeing how quickly and how hyg never considered that yeah i guess we always sorta did talk in abstract terms about trout getting into his thirties in moving the left field and beefing up you know in so far as that's it's possible for him to beef up anymore. Interning at forty five fifty homer guy i'd never considered the arc would sort of look hank. Aaron ish probably because air there is never hit fifty home runs but he thirties and forties every single year which trout has basically done since his wet sophomore more season and if you consider the fact that he's missed a lot of time due to injury that if that carries forward then he's not gonna have a chance but if those injuries even out a little bit it and he settles into forty to forty five homers per year. It's not unreasonable and you look at it like hank. Aaron's like the kind of player he was like he had a lot more in common with trout as a player then with somebody like mark maguire for instance like home run hitting was just a byproduct of him being a great all around hitter like i was just describing arriving trout reality so not the last one i have written down. Here is just sixty home runs. I'm still out of ten if someone as a chance at reaching sixty home runs. I'm watching every at bat. I did that with stanton a few years ago. There hasn't been a sixty home run hitter since bonds in two thousand one so even with a lot of home runs. Maybe there's a little bit of an astro astros there but it's still super exciting yup amid a nine for sixty nine and <hes> the only reason it's a nine is because i need somewhere to go l. Somebody actually challenges seventy three or seven sixty two. I honestly like even with the ball like this. I am not even considering the possibility that someone someone could challenge seventy-three. That's such a big upgrade from what stanton did a couple years ago and stanton was hitting home runs like nobody had ever seen before <hes> the other thing is like we talk about the ball being juice now and obviously the ball is probably more than it's been in decades but if you think about when bonds was setting his his record when sosa and mcgwire chase it wasn't just steroids. There's some compelling evidence that the ball was juice then too so just using the ball doesn't seem like it it would be enough to carry someone that high yeah and you think about ninety eight not only ninety eight an expansion year but nineteen sixty one was to that yeah now. There's no time soon but like that's they talked about that a lot like back before everybody was like inbetween somebody finding andro and mark mcgwire's locker and everybody's all of a sudden net wants deciding to give a shit about it. They said oh it's expansion. It's you know there's thirty thirty five new pitchers in the league who aren't actually who wouldn't have been majorly quality a year ago. I don't know if there's anything to that. Imagine how many home runs by trout could hit against expansion expansion pitchers. I mean imagine if there was that talk about the diamondbacks i mean this was not serious talk but the diamondbacks moving the las vegas like imagine if if we got their pre humidor course to with <hes> with bond su i'm saying this i actually i have no idea how many home runs he hit is one but he played their niner ten times so anyway like yeah. It's it's the the fucking all time home run record of course there's not just one thing going on and you know it. It takes a perfect storm. Circumstances bonds never got close to two seventy three again even as he turned into an even better hitter down the road so so i think the takeaway takeaway is more mundane records. <hes> don't generate excitement because there are just so many home runs and so many records they kind of all come together and dilute but <hes> the top individual home run records. You're still still bring out the kid in us and you you know what like as far as baseball goes. The homered like the individual home run records are like the fucking holy grail you know that is the thing and <hes> there's nothing else. I don't honestly. I don't know that there's an individual record in sports certainly not the last time it got broke. It may be just because the steroids it's a shine is coming on. Come off like gets people excited for the only you know. The only one i would say is if someone makes run it dimaggio. I i think that would be the all time like watching every single at-bat we'll talk about like the not the combination of great story and grade longevity javadi you know. I don't know there's nothing in the n._b._a. That comes close to to that. Maybe like in the n._f._l. Like the individual rushing record but like i feel like i'm reaching you know apart from that like you. Watch it stuff that happens like maybe the hundred meter dash at the olympics or something like that <hes> and even then. I don't think anything comes close in at least in american sports in terms of individual records to the home run record and so it's i i'm with you. I don't think we're going to see a seventy three challenges anytime soon <hes> by eat <hes> even those lesser records. We're not even talking about this again with the exception of like maybe hitting streaks as somebody getting over thirty to forty <hes> you know we're not even talking about these lower. Quality you know lower tier of of records for for stolen bases are strikeouts or or anything like that. Dinger's are cool. No yeah you know even as somebody who <hes> is relatively speaking at dinger's as skeptic like it's the holy grail like i said so i guess we'll have to settle for for pete alonzo breaking todd humphries record for now but <hes> maybe someday tied with carlos beltran to be clear. I know that's fans. Only remember the two thousand six carlos beltran season for a time he did not swing the bat but he hit forty one homers that year pretty good carlos beltran a girl ramp layer. It turns out i share more dinger's will be hit between now and when we talk next week oh yeah i mean i'm sure diggers were hit if you're listening when you this like right at seven o'clock tonight i'm sure that you you could have watched dinger to all right. We'll talk to you next week until then <music> lesson. 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For special savings only at legalzoom dot com where life meets legal all right it is my pleasure to welcome to the podcast from the athletic lindsay adler linzie. Thanks for taking the time to talk so we're going to talk about the yankees. Obviously you have just watched. Gleyber torres says <hes> beat the ever loving shit out of the orioles he has twenty six on the season <hes> of which is a twelve or thirteen or against the orioles now <hes> thirteen so aren't they going to be able to count on him when the orioles are invariably not in the playoffs <hes> i think so yes i think of all else guys on the roster flavors. Probably one of the wanted to worry about the least <hes> it's you know orioles l. decide. It's it's definitely one of those things where you look at him and i'm like how are you twenty two. I don't get it. It's it's kind of upsetting and so i think aaron boone is <hes> a lot of faith and whatever he asked to do so he's been one of the few guys who who <hes> was expected to be a starter on this team <hes> and has actually been in the lineup for pretty much the entire year and this has led to the emergence of g or shallow shallah. Mike talk men in all sorts of probably half a dozen other players who d._j. Will mayhew who have really seized roles and this was something wouldn't be going through their their injury crisis earlier in the season <hes> i thought actually might come back to to benefit that that they have gotten these guys used to his playing every day and now they just have incredible depth on their bench. <hes> i think it's really given guys like geo and mike talk men and even cameron maven after retooled a few things i think all the playing time is really giving them a chance to kind of find themselves in that way and i think the the whole situation is just really prepared the whole team for adversity. I would say they seem to <hes>. It's really resilient and i guess if my whole team got injured and then i saw as like geo or shelhah taking off i got i feel pretty. Damn good about any of that came my way too. So how do how does that resilience sort of manifest itself as somebody who watches the team up close you know i think i thought most last weekend against the red sox <hes> i. I think a baseball season is long and costs and i think it's tough when when you don't have outside reinforcement coming his neither of those two teams did and i think you know it's it's. I was thinking back to like april. I guess it was when guys dropping like wise and i remember there was a day before we went on the road somewhere and someone else had been injured and and i remember the clubhouse just kind of felt like like you could tell they were like what what the hell is going on. It was it was a distinctly kind of like gloomy by and now it's like someone like aaron. Hicks goes on and everyone just kinda struggle and even hicks themselves like next man up. You know like i'm. I'm sure everyone's really concerned bothered. There's by it but you know it's just even in the attitude they have when they talk about it like listening to matanzas say you know the the season cheesiness and really difficult for me personally but i've been really comforted by the fact that the team has it's actually needed me you know he said i would feel way worse about missing the entire season thus far if it felt like you know my presence was the difference and so i think everyone can kind of feel like i can go through my experience and you know it hurt has gone things things like that and everyone else is going to pick me up so this leaves them in a position where they're nine games up on the race in the division they are according to i almost didn't bother looking up the odds. The baseball prospectus hasn't been ninety nine point eight percent <hes> to make the playoffs they are for all intents and purposes in what's the goal yeah i guess apart from staying healthy for the next seven weeks or so until i figure out who they're applying it and what they're the seating is that i'm really actually interested to see how they play out the next few weeks especially with september coming because you know to me the goal like you said. Keep everyone healthy. Keep everyone you know on a time on a reasonable timetable so the big guys like you know luke boy or even when i'm feeling or or dylan and severino so that they can come back when it's actually right but the crazy thing is that this team of for all intensive purposes various ranchos is keeping pace with the astros and dodgers and the like winning percentage call them and so you know they have a real chance to rent for home field advantage the postseason and then i think they should do it and obviously they will. They want to win every single game but <hes> i guess september to me the idea of kind of load management and how that will play out is actually something. I'm really interested in it given him the situation they have where they need to create opportunities to bring themselves to you know i guess full-strength heading into october helper what i'm most interested in the yankees or one of most interested in from the yankees <hes> perspective over the next few weeks is the rotation which ever you know a lot has been said and written about how they didn't go out and get pitching help at the deadline. It's they've got a couple of guys james paxson. Has you look at his overall numbers. They'd been fine. You know he hasn't been as quality. You've written a lot about masahiro tanaka struggle to <hes> to adapt it sinker <hes> i to the new baseball and these pieces that they were counting for. That's the say nothing of severino's on the shelf. <hes> jordan montgomery's on the shelf a couple of years sea sabbatical raffia coming back soon but he's on on the isles been there <hes> on and off. You know it's i'm interested to see what the the rotations gonna look like and how like there's a lot. There's just a ton of uncertainty and like you said this is a team. That's keeping pace with the dodgers in the astros and it's amazing. I think it speaks alight to to quality of their offense certainly in their bullpen but it's amazing to see a team with a record this good with so many question marks about the rotation. It's it's totally wild you know and i mean probably the best thing that can happen for them that their offense just goes full bludgeoned mode and then and limits the number of games. They need to send a starting pitcher out there for but i i i think they're going to get creative in the postseason and i think it's actually a really interesting predicament because most of the guys in their rotation hobble plot of experience you know domingo on is the only you know kind of younger inexperienced guy and so if you're jay happened you've been in the league since i two thousand seven. Are you really going to be happy with them putting an opener in front of you if you you know if if you're making a postseason start you know and i think everyone is willing to do what it takes to win but it's really hard to imagine the idea of saying someone and you know. We're going to tinker with what you've always done but i don't know how else they're going to really kind of get by. I think it's going to be very interesting month for the bullpen and i think also relievers know that and i think actually the way to go back to the phrase load management. I think the way that the yankees he's managed. Their relievers is really unique. <hes> they philosophically won't us guys three days in a row <hes> which is frustrating trading to a lot of the fan base and they're like what the hell why isn't out amata vino available but <hes> yeah. I think those those back end guys know that there's there's a lot of responsibility coming their way soon yeah and that's something that i've always sort of wanted the yankees to do because they've been built this way i for it feels like a few years that they've had a tanaka or a or a severino at the front of the rotation but they've only had like one or two guys who you can count on to be just allison. The postseason and the rest of the rotations usually been a little bit a little bit patchwork <hes> but at the same time they've we've had the these incredibly talented incredibly deep bullpens and i've always wanted them to go to something like a three man rotation and take advantage of those off days and really ride that bullpen as far as they can go and it struck me that. I wonder if that's tougher to do if you're the yankees as opposed to a team. That's sort of expected to get by creatively. We like oakland or tampa or cleveland curious as you know. Somebody's closer to the organization whether you think there's any truth to that. Now you yeah those that's something i think about to <hes> i think they've obviously really embraced fields this year but i think it's easy to justify when they had you know can breathe a four starters for a lot of fear and they've played like eighteen doubleheaders so there's not really another option <hes> i i think amongst every organization in baseball. I think the yankees have shown. Don't do whatever it takes to win. Their commitment to winning is pretty much unrivaled five okay but no it's. It's something that you know if the yankees get really creative with like a three man or occasion or you know even bowl pending postseason games. If it came down to it it would definitely read very differently than if the razor oakland did it. It would be a lot more headlines. I think yeah and it's it's it's interesting that they've developed this reputation. I think they've earned a reputation as a pretty smart organization. You just see their player development for instance the this stuff they've they've gotten out of unheralded pitching prospects for instance <hes> but they've done that without really being creative her weird and even like even when they have lied on the bullpen. It's just it's like a i. It reads differently than when oakland does it for instance the yankees just go out and get the best relievers than just lineup one after another as opposed to oakland sort of making things work with you know turning lou trevino into in lockdown reliever liam hendriks or something like that <hes> yeah. I think that's really what should scare. A lot of people throughout the league. Is that if the yankee getting a position where i think at this point. Let's say there's the yankees astros ale. I mean we're all going to be talking about how yeah astros sticks every pitcher and the yankees fix every position player. It's just you know i can. I can basically hear joe buff talking about it right now. Oh and i think that's much of really scare. People is their apparent ability to <hes> you know. Turn turn a lot of guys into into gold but you're right. It's it's a it's a tough thing when you look at their when you look at their picking situation and i guess he just kind panipat to hope that <hes> a lot of those those guys get hit some cushion fury inky fan so what can i mean. Severino is a big name. I mentioned montgomery a <hes>. Jonathan lewis is can we count on <unk>. I'd count on is probably too strong a word but it is what are what's the probability brought ability that any of those guys make it back in time to play a significant role in the postseason. He does that and this week and might even and be later today. <hes> you know i think we'll isaacson really be a really interesting weapon for them. <hes> and i think he would definitely have an opportunity to be part of any you know creative configurations they do but you know <hes>. There's still six just weeks to go until that and so. I'm really interested to see what they sent him out for. You know suffering. Oh matanzas at this point. They really are just just saying. Take your damn time you know. Just just get it ready for for late. September get some wrestling and then come out and be weapons in october and i think you know severino said actually sounded more encouraged over the last couple of days and i think i've heard them all season <hes> the chances through bullpen yesterday and his face just kind of went up when we asked how it went you know he was like a ball was coming out really well. I haven't felt this good all year and so i i think they're the best move is to let these guys play the long game and then yeah i think they can be luis severino and don't matanzas when it comes walkover set up correctly all right. I sort of ended the positioning because you you know you know you've got a team. That's going to the the playoffs and <hes> there's going to be relatively relatively little drama but like you can go ahead and and beat. Tom verduci to that <hes> yankees yankees position players versus astros pitchers feature for the for the postseason yeah. I'm <hes> i'm realizing that i'm really happy i don't cover array national league team because when they believe the schedule the other day we were in baltimore and let's be honest i would rather book twenty five. I hotels through marriott dot com and watch another orioles bludgeoning right now and i and i looked at the wildcard standing <hes> for the national league and and i was like no no i would. I would just be booking a hotel two days before it's you know it's it's interesting not to have to think think about a division race right now like you said to kind of think about beating comfort duty to some sort of yankees feature which we'll never happen but it's a nice thing to dream about. I guess i i will say like as a as a fan like playoff pennant races fun but as a reporter who has to like plan ahead it's <hes> it's a little stressful so i'm i'm happy you don't have to fear if you're going to have tour this october but <hes> so i look forward to to seeing what you come out with over the next few weeks <hes> and we'll check back in the playoffs yeah yes we will see what happens. Maybe when we get there everything i've said today. Just sounds like stupid bullshit but i guess we'll find out all right. Thanks for coming on you looking for new furniture. There's lots consider like how you're gonna. Get the door or how comfortable viewing the game goes to extra innings burst changing all all of that was simple adaptable easy move furniture that could be assembled a disassemble in just a few minutes wasn't ships to your door fast and free now if you've listened to the show at all you know i have bir- or a love seat. It is nice to look at. 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R. o. w. dot com slash m._l._b. For seventy five dollars off a new so all right and we're back with the writer and podcast stir in general man about internet ben lindbergh then how you doing hello sir. I'm i'm doing well. You know who's not doing well. Who's that the minnesota twins. You don't say yeah <hes> they're. They're having a rough time of it. They are on track to become. I think the second team ever to be as many as eleven and a half games under division and <hes> not finished that season in first place. This is a ah complicated fun fact that that jayson stark tweeted hits. I think it's only when the second place team is eleven and a half games back or more so there have been comebacks by teams that were not in second place but we're saying third and fourth and overcame greater deficits so it's it's a lot of games to come back from. I think we can say that much and and this is not like the nineteen fifty one <hes> giants or the one thousand nine hundred mariners. This is <hes> like the indians have caught the twins as of today they were mangum versus <hes> so <hes> yeah a little bit right after the deadline about how <hes> the twins they obviously we have this all time great offense they and their pitching staff has been you know it's had its ups and downs. Jose barea has been great. <hes> jayco tracy's been great. Michael pineda has been good and shockingly healthy. I say even though he's on the i al right now and they went out and got not even like top end relievers far be for me to impugn game cockerel series era college world series hero sam dyson but <hes> you know they didn't exactly go out and get like like will smith and can giles you know this is <hes> they they got to okay dudes and <hes> <hes> i thought totally honest it'll probably still be enough to get them into the playoffs but if they wind up in a wildcard game with your tamper oakland that's like that's a real role of the dice and for as good as they we looked you know a couple of months ago. This is a this is a problem now. Yeah we did very briefly pan their trade deadline performance when and we did our post deadline pod they were not the least active contending team at the deadline but i think they could have done more and dyson good reliever but he almost immediately got hurt and pitched poorly and then went on the a._l. With biceps tendinitis so that's tough but they could've used the starter and i think to their credit they tried and they transit just like they were under no illusions about needing one they just you know i think for either taliban or <hes> derek salvi said forget who exactly <hes> <hes> ended up getting quoted that they were just waiting for the price of drop on some of these guys and it never happened and maybe that baby they end up being the big losers from the the nonexistence of the august waiver trade period because maybe there's a couple of these fires could slip through waivers and they coulda gotten a deal john yeah they were reportedly on everyone and they were being asked for their top to prospects and byron buxton at least in one deal which would have made this sort of a lateral will move but i wouldn't say that the twins have collapsed. Even though they've lost this large lead. They've played okay even during this time when cleveland has overtaken them i i think the twins are thirty one in twenty nine since they were atop the division with that giant lead which is not great but they've been overtaken by the team. That's been playing the best of of anyone in baseball so things have not gone quite as well for the twins some of the guys who were really getting them out to that great start like jayco torrisi like martine peres. Those guys have kind of cratered and i think the defense has taken a step back with byron buxton. He's very important on the defensive side whether or not he he's hitting but they have continued to hit. It's just that the defense the pitching have not been up to cleveland because cleveland's level has been very very lefty and tough to to keep up with which you know i think to some extent this is sort of a victory. I guess for the preseason projections right because this is what we thought would happen. We thought not coming into the year oakland would be this is what happened. No we didn't think it would be a giant lead and then lose the lead. We kind of thought that cleveland would just win this division vision fairly handily or at least i did and that's not to say that we didn't criticize their complete lack of activity over the winter because of course we did and they could have done much more earlier on they spent much of the winter talking about trading people away instead of acquiring people instead of extending a qualifying offer to michael brantley and they went to the season as an trusting guys like carlos gonzales and hanley ramirez and that backfired and they didn't hit all for the first couple months of the season and then they had to change their roster around and make trades and promote people and so to some extent they got burned a bit for not doing more over the winter as i think we accuse them of at the time but part of the reason that they didn't do more was that they thought well. It's a week division and were good enough as it is and maybe they were right in the long run even though it was <hes> a lot more anxiety inducing than we thought it would but this is still a real race. It's not like cleveland's a half game up right now so this is far from over yet at the same time time and you know i know you've got my case for believing in momentum in the past but like yeah this is going one way. I certainly don't think cleveland's gonna continue to to play seven seven twenty baseball for the the rest of the year. Which is what they've done. Since that division lead was was at its peak of eleven and a half games <hes> but how corey kluber kluber is on his way back and they don't look like they're missing trevor bauer at all some of these the timeline doesn't loosen up exactly but i really liked what the twins did this off season guyane getting marlene gonzalves jonathan scope <hes> and really reinforcing a solid young core and i you know it's like they got all their shopping done. In the off season. They got out to this huge lead and then cleveland made the they finally made that big deal you know and i i was saying if you're going to trade trevor bauer. What are you going to get. That's going to help you contend before francisco window becomes free agent and you know what they did pretty well <hes> and and and frame as were exactly what the doctor ordered and with kluber coming back with my club injure coming back you know some of the i don't know how much i trust that please please act in the long term but shane bieber looks like the fucking goods right now yes and if you develop shane bieber then that gives you the opportunity to to trained trevor bauer and to get back not just ray has weak but at logan al and a couple other prospects who could end up helping longer so they're pitching looks fine right now and they've fill those holes in the field and they i mean they look really strong. I don't know if i put them in the yankees tear that or the ash certainly not the after here but i i'm not sure they're significantly worse on paper and the other thing is like jose ramirez actually hitting like jose ramirez again at which was that that was all he was not going to continue to produce a five hundred okay he s all year so like this is the we talk about regression to the mean and like sometimes it happens all at once and this is just sort of what happened over the past few months with cleveland but they got back to they underperformance a a they over performed now there were less team. We thought they'd be yet. The turnaround is really interesting. It's not just one thing that has propelled them back to the top here because i just talked about how yes the preseason projections said that cleveland was the best team in the division but the preseason projections were counting on corey kluber and cars cresco to have healthy productive active seasons and that hasn't happened and yet other members of that pitching staff have really stepped up so it's bieber who was my breakout pick for the year. I'm going to brag about that because so rarely do i actually make predictions and so wherever they are they right when i do but he's been even better than figured he'd be and then in the absence of kluber in cresco go they've had guys like police ac and adam putco putco has been pretty good and now aaron salei has kind of come out of nowhere and he's been good and so so they've cobbled together this really strong rotation out of guys who weren't expected to be that great and levinger came back from injury and he's been excellent too so that's part tired of it and yeah you figure if they can get anything out of cooper in cresco the rest of the way and danny salazar whose just recently returned. That's really the encouraging. Everything is pointing up for cleveland and for minnesota. I don't know if it's pointing down in some cases. Maybe it is nelson sideways which down relatively when i said when cleveland to win win three out of four and and nelson cruz has a risked problem now which even if it doesn't sideline him him you have to worry about problems with power hitters and yeah again with cleveland. It's not just the changes they've made in the players. They've promoted who performed well but it's the trade they made at least plead has been great since he was brought over and then it is guys who were there but we're not performing jose ramirez. You mentioned jason kit. This is another one one who looked like he might be done and he's been very productive. During this run that they've had ramirez is back to his old form and they have remade themselves on the fly even even before the puig trade where they brought up tower quinn and oscar kado and those guys have been better than the sort of stiffs that they started ended the season with in the outfield. That's kind of cruel but it's true so i think it's all these things kind of coming together and making them the team that we thought thought they'd be or or at least performing like team. We thought they'd be but not necessarily with the roster that we thought it would have. I think the most encouraging thing if you're a twins fan right right now is that they do have a weaker schedule the rest of the way i think significantly so they have more games left against the royals the tigers you know the dregs eggs of this division. I think fewer games against a n._l. Contending team so cleveland has a tougher time and these teams do play each other twice for three-game the game series in september which has the potential to be really riveting because if this continues to be close then then we'll have a showdown where maybe those <unk> games will actually swing the outcome of this race and i'm glad we have this race because i didn't really expect there to be ale central race and now we've got a really close host and fun one and it's kind of all we have in the american league right now. I guess there's an as raise wild card race sort of you're not into the the wild card. I'm interested in. That's something i mean you know. There's no ale west division title race at this point. It doesn't appear to be ale east division title race so there's as raise and then you figure that cleveland and minnesota one of them will take the division one of them will take the wildcard but this obviously it matters to win the division over the wild card in this era so this is going to be really fascinating over the rest of the season. This may be the the best storyline or the best race remaining. I can tell you're charged up about this because you said stiffs and drags and votes your own predictions in the same monologue really ill in it. Yeah you had your wheaties. This sure yeah yeah. This is a lot of fun. I kinda thought that cleveland would just win in a walk in this division even though i didn't think they were as good a team as they had been in previous v._s. Years and then the twins come out of the gate and they're one of the most exciting teams season and they've got this gangbusters offense and a new coaching staff and doing interesting things with analytics and that was fun to see them. Get up to that big lead but now i think this latest twist where that lead has been entirely erased. Just makes it the better at least if you're not a twins fan. It's been a really literary ale central race <hes> because it for the like i don't. I don't think either of us rationally is pissed. Cleveland is sack was <hes> this off season <hes> but like what they did was really hubristic you know oh and that that banking like we can put together an eighty six win team with a good pitching staff and win the division anyway and you know a lot of stuff we trash awesome for wasn't even stuff that they did. It was stuff that they were talking about doing which is not to say that letting brantley walk or not <hes> not upgrading reading the outfielder you know not making the kind of moves the minnesota did <hes> was was smart but if they thought they could get away with it and <hes> it was good to see them like laid low briefly by a team that what they did all the things that that they weren't doing in the off season you know the twins had a pretty the aggressive off season and like you said bringing rocket ball dulling west johnston and overhauling at that front office like we just wrote off at that front office is reactionary for for so long now. They're you know what they're doing is. I don't know if it's cutting edge but it's definitely a up to up to the standards of what you'd expect from a well run major league organization and y- all of a sudden one of these teams that is not only like was not only bad but just sort of mismanaged manage for a long time it was good enough to to really come up by cleveland and so like they were punished for that but not so much that they just got completely knocked out the race and now we're you know we've got this interesting contrast of styles. We have the the the defending champion and the challenger at a._o. I think this makes for a really really. I hope it stays this close numb down the stretch because like this is just a really well for a better way to put it just a really well plotted out season so far yeah i think so the twins fed probably as dramatic a revolution turn around in the way that they're run as any organization over over the past few years and they've really remade the kind of player they go after even as they've remade the coaching staff where they have more strikeouts now after years of avoiding eating strikeout pitchers they are going to break the all time home run record which is very out of character for the twins who as aaron gleaming pointed out recently have been i think <unk> out homered as a team in something like twenty six out of the last twenty seven seasons. You just don't really expect to see the twins as the superpower team and yet yet. That's what they are so. It's been a lot of fun. I think what is interesting. Is you know which of these teams is better positioned to make a playoff run assuming they both get there i mean i don't know that there's that big a difference between say beeper and burritos or whoever cleveland's best starter is when it when it comes to wildcard time so i don't know if there's a big difference there but once you get into a longer series you could see cleveland by the time the playoffs runner loomed depending on who's healthy at that point they could be the more imposing postseason team just because if they do go deep if they can bro beeper beeper out there and clovinger and kluber and caress go and we'll see who's around and who's performing at that point but i think they'd be a little bit scarier as a playoff team. Assuming minnesota has the same sorta rotation they have right now which there's no way to to change it significantly at this point so i think that's something to be said for cleveland to and and i think their defense has been part of this turnaround to. They're really good defensive team right now the way that they're currently configured so i'd be more afraid of cleveland probably as we can right now going into the postseason and this is you know it's interesting that we both sort of defaulted halted the two that i think just because they're pitching. It's better you know. Their mind is nowhere near as good as minnesota's by we still sort of defaulted that defense wins championships kinda thing and i'm wondering like is that something that we ought to be doing is the game changing to the point. Where like i i almost you know having seen that twenty seventeen world series particularly game to where ever you know everything happened in the blink of an eye and like good relief pitchers <hes> just melted down you know cameras and ken giles and guys like that. You know it's i. I wonder if like if you have anything but like the absolute absolute best pitchers that we ought to just be thinking about the playoff ball is sometimes equalizer. Yeah i mean i think we probably do too. We do make too much the idea that defense or pitching <unk> whatever wins championships. I think that maybe there's kind of a mystique built up around that because scoring scoring does decrease in the playoffs because of course you've got colder weather and you've got good pitching staffs in good defense in so scoring goes down across the board and we so infer from that i guess that whoever's best at at limiting run-scoring as best that winning in october. I don't know that that's really the case. I mean if you've got a good offense. Is that still lug your way to a title and i genuinely like having looked at empirical research on this so i don't even know if there is any but yeah where crickets it's hard to look at historical data and say that it applies to the postseason today because i think managers have changed how they handled the rushers in the playoffs right now and and i think that does lend some credence to the idea that pitching matters because teams are more aggressive these days i think about concentrating the innings in october tober in the hands of their best pitchers whether that is bringing in your relievers working the best relievers really hard or going with bullpen game instead of like like the fringy fourth starter who wants might have gotten a playoff start. I just think that at this point if you have a playoffs staff a pitching staff that's not not particularly deep. I mean it doesn't matter who your fifth starter is or you know your eighth reliever at this point because i think if you have a solid core of say three really good starters and four five good bullpen guys than you can use them almost exclusively in the playoffs because of the off days and i think teams have realized that and been more aggressive about that and so i think a team like cleveland obviously they've had success in the playoffs before going with you know working relievers really hard and and having a few good starters and they've even had their whole rotation together in some of their recent playoff runs which is maybe why they went so so hard on the bullpen but if they they do get you know three or four really good starters healthy and pitching together by the time the playoffs roll around. I think that is an advantage like proportionately speaking also also. I just think you know we look at the full season stats when we're comparing teams when they go into the playoffs but these rosters. We really should be comparing. Who's actually the playoff roster and for cleveland. I think difference between their full season roster in their playoff roster will probably be bigger than than minnesota's has different just because cleveland's made more in season changes and upgrades and they've had more entry absences and guys they could potentially get back so i think by that point they will it probably be a better team than minnesota will be and the other thing complicating. The analysis is for all the science in in close observation like the indians just road josh tomlin and ryan merit to the world series a couple of years ago like just last year nathan all turned into nineteen twenty four walter johnson like there's a as we say this all the time and it's unsatisfying but it's also true like you can't predict baseball so enough enough to to know which of these guys are gonna step up and even you know even players who have a track record of performance like that's not a guarantee so yeah yeah i. I'm with you. I like the way that cleveland thrashers set up now. <hes> just it's less that like i'm convinced that bieber's burzaco please asking to go out there and throw a complete game shutout game seven of the a._n._c. asser whatever it's just. I don't know who i don't know which minnesota's pitchers i like right now except for berea right now as the like you don't need your only thirteen good pitchers but you need at least two yeah and i'm not sure that the minnesota's it's got that so i think they like it would behoove them to to win the division. Perhaps more than any other team. That's sort of teetering on that edge yeah well. I mean burrito various gives them a as good a shot to win the wild card game as anyone on damaged kluber charlie morton or you know i will but if it's an advantage vented but it's not a great disadvantage. We don't even know how at that point. I think that's true ed. We don't need to get into like what an ace but like he could keep. If you win that game right yeah i guess he didn't against the yankees in the wildcard game but yes he could. He has the potential to and then. I think that the twins have more potential to be exposed. Oppose the longer the series go is because you can only throw brioche a couple times. You've got a couple together the rest of that rotation with guys who have not been performing wealth welf recently whether it's over easier gibson or maybe pineda will be backed by that point but who knows oh boy. This is definitely like you said more drama than i thought we were going to get to know probably point <hes> right <hes> so we're going to track that and we're gonna talk again next week but until then thanks for coming on all right right so yeah that'll do it for this week's edition of the ringer m._l._b. Show thanks as always zach bent for joining me and thanks also to my special guest lindsay adler you can find her work at at the athletic and her tweets at lindsay adler. Thanks bobby wagner for reducing today's episode. Thanks to jorges allaire glare torres and shane bieber forgiving stuff to talk about back. Thank you for listening weeks action and we'll see you next time yeah.

yankees pete alonzo baseball cleveland orioles mark mcgwire stanton astros Aaron royals mike trout luis severino olympics jose bautista lance lynn twitter nelson cruz ryan howard cody bellinger minnesota
Episode 29: The London Series, NYY Steak and More with a 24-Year Season Ticket Holder

Pinstripe Lanes Podcast - New York Yankees (Unofficial)

27:18 min | 1 year ago

Episode 29: The London Series, NYY Steak and More with a 24-Year Season Ticket Holder

"And Episode Number Twenty nine of the pincer planes podcast is brought to you by the new shipment. I just received today from Dick's sporting goods. Wonder what this could be <music> welcome to the pinstripe lanes podcast. Here's radio host and Lifelong Yankees Fan Ravi overs. If only I was getting paid to plug that business welcome to episode twenty nine of the Pinstripe Lanes podcast. I'm Ralphie AVERSA. Thank you for finding us. Wherever you you did <hes> rating reviewing and subscribing helps immensely as we continue to try to launch this podcast to greater heights of course you find us on your favorite social networks at pinstripe lanes at Ralphie Aversa uh-huh you should follow us on social networks especially twitter for a couple reasons Tara who lives out on Long Island and to I got to know through my radio show found this out as well this past week the reason and being is because I was in the market for the short sleeve Yankee Hoodie not the the custom short sleeve one the one that they sell us a long sleeved but that has the hems on the sleeve but the actual when you buy it it is already a show it looks like a t shirt short sleeve t shirt essentially with a hood on it <hes> Aaron Boone's men wearing it a lot a number of other players have worn it in the dugout if they're not playing during batting practice and so on and so forth I was going to by this on fanatics this? It's a Navy Hood Navy sleeves dark grey body of the shirt and then it Scott Yankees and dark navy written across it New York Yankees and it's got the the N._y.. Logo is outlined in White. I was going to buy it on fanatics. Well became so popular because short sleeve hoodies are kind of in all the players and the manager. I've been wearing them <hes> that it's sold out and here's the interesting thing about sports merchandise Sundays in two thousand nineteen fanatics basically runs everything. Fanatics is the same inventory for obviously phonetics dot com fans edge M._l._B.. Shop J._C.. Penney's online store lids lids basically is far as I know there are only two other sports stores online or to other inventories that I know of places that have different inventories than fanatics because that this is the problem like it's great because fanatics has licensed everything for all the leagues and so all these different websites have a number of different options however when something sells out it makes it that much more difficult to then find that item you can't just go oh we'll fanatics is sold out so I'll go to leads dot com which used to sell back before they were purchased by fanatics. They sold the number of various merchandise and stuff now you can't go there now because that's basically the same inventory as fanatic same with M._l._b.. Shop so on and so forth the two separate inventories these are a the company that owns footlocker East Bay Foot Action Champs sports they have an inventory and three those sites. There's different things especially when it comes to sneakers but essentially it's the same inventory and then Dick's sporting goods still in the sports merchandise game has an online shop that is not run by fanatics and so after this short sleeve Yankee onfield majestic Hoodie was sold out through fanatics. I was able to find it Dick Sporting goods same price retail fifty bucks was able to purchase it and I bought it. I will say it is a lovely Hoodie soft cotton mostly. It's like polyester cotton mix. I bought a sized large because in the majestic long-sleeve batting practice Odia bought a medium and it fits but it's like just perfectly and I like it to be like a little loose. At least I mean I like the tailored look but at least they're a little more casual so I I'd like them to be at least just a little looser and so this one with the large and of course that's a size too big. It's currently washing in the moment so hopefully I'll be able to shrink it a little bit and then it'll be perfect <hes> nonetheless if something is sold out the Yankees M._l._b.. Shop online or phonetics. Addicts now granted to go to a Yankee clubhouse store in New York which I could have done. I'm going up to the stadium tomorrow. So I suppose I could have looked at the clubhouse store up there. Although you're usually going to pay a premium when you go to these stores I didn't go. I searched online. I believe I'm modell's website and couldn't find it. I didn't go to any modell's here in the city. So I guess local to me. There would have been some brick and mortar options but from an online who does that anymore right exactly from an online perspective. If you're shopping online for Yankees he's gear something you can't find out fanatics you WANNA check East Bay footlocker and then you want to also check a Dick Sporting goods as well great pinstripe planes podcast for you this week a guy who we wanted to have on for a while. We've known for a number of years. He's been a Yankee season ticket holder for twenty four years and he made the trip across the pond in London for the two game Yankee Red Sox series Eric Lipkin is our guest this week on the pinstripe planes podcast. We'll ask him about the experience. Watching the Yankees is in London. We'll ask him about the benefits of being a season ticket holder for twenty four years and we'll talk about the very interesting evening that he had I spent at the stadium between Aaron Boone's pre-game press conference and unexpected trip to N. Y.. Y steak steak and then of course the game afterwards so a number of things to cover with Eric Lipkin. He joins US This Week on episode number twenty nine of the Pinstripe Lanes podcast and welcome back to the pinstripe lanes podcast. I am Ralphie Aversa over the past couple of seasons. You may have heard we mentioned a friend of mine who <unk> who is a Yankee season ticket holder. He's been so for over two decades. I got to know him through my old job at ninety five Jay and have been fortunate enough to attend a number of games with him over the years. We actually recently recently. I quite the experience at Yankee Stadium. Attending Aaron Boone's pre-game press conference and then going to N. Y.. Stake for our first time however he just got back from a trip to Europe or yes he attended the Yankees Red Sox series in London his name Ms Eric Lipkin and he joins us now on the pinstripe planes podcasts Eric. Thanks for the time appreciate it and thank you for having me. We'll talk about our trip to Yankee Stadium and just a few but because it's fresh in your mind I wanNA talk about the trip over to London. Let's start big picture. I know you also went to Europe with your wife and you guys got to visit France and so on but as far as just the trip to see the Yankees Red Sox series with your family wasn't worth it yeah absolutely it was great being in a different country and free where baseball isn't their thing yet but it was great being the stadium that was comprised of Red Sox fans Yankee fans and then British people who were just learning baseball or Juno baseball already and root for one team or the other. What were the percentages I would say thirty percent Yankee fans thirty percent red sox fans and then other people from the U._k.? Who are rooting for either team or both teams Gotcha all right? How did you get your tickets at the Yankees had a presale for season ticket holders where they gave us access prior to anyone else getting tickets we had <hes> prescribed seats for certain locations so we went with the cheapest tickets actually which were thirty two pounds and seventy pence which converts to bet forty one fifty a ticket but they ranged from that on up to four five six seven eight hundred dollars so we went with the cheap ones but the view is excellent similar to I would say the two hundred leveling Yankee Stadium we were out by the foul pole in left field but no obstruction and we were much slower Dan than we would have been on the upper deck? Yankee stadium is so like main outfield seats for forty bucks which actually is kind of on par with what you would pay if you're going through ticketmaster even a little cheaper than that for a Yankee regular season ticket. Would you think of the stadium. The Stadium is nice. It was built back for the Olympics. <hes> definitely not built for baseball per se but they make good use of it of the views from wherever you were were good given the temperature was the bill low nineties and humid which isn't normal for London and the way the stadium was constructed where there's a roof around the outside rim with a hole in the middle. It seemed to be holding the heat inside and maybe that's what was going on with the pitching given the crazy score the first game that went on <hes> but overall it was a great vibe and rape being. In there in London it was funny wherever you go or in Europe for that matter in France where we're going to see people Yankee hats you don't really see people in other teams hats except in London when we were there for the few days there were some red sox hats as well but in Europe in general it was just funny seeing Yankee hats everywhere. Do you think they were actually Yankee. Fans though or it's just the fashion statement that they've seen kind of popularized by a lot of big names in America throughout the years. I'm thinking more fashion statement. I can't imagine all those people been to Yankee. Games on a lot of them. Were definitely not American wearing hats and I think it was definitely a fashion statement. So you bet you got your tickets through being a Yankee season ticket holder they they offered you guys a special presale with did they offer anything before or after the games like were there any like tailgate spots I mean what was the vibe outside the stadium. The Yankees themselves didn't offer any events per se there were hospitality. Packages could go online to purchase which we didn't do but outside the stadium there was a band going on which was free for everyone to listen to there was a big mall next door which had restaurants outside which repacked outside the stadium they set up the big <hes> m._l._b.. London series store which also was packed with lines that people probably had to wait in line for two hours to go in just the by Merch hit just by virtue and then they had they had some other stands in the stadium which had lines must have in forty five minutes to an hour long as well so not wanting to wait in those lines looked online fanatics and they had almost identical items on fanatics for less price than they were charging month getting over to Europe Flight Hotel all I don't need all the details but were you offered any packages and or discounts through the Yankees or did you have to do it on your own through your various accounts and points and so on now the Yankees and offer anything actually ran into my yankees sales representative who said that he himself had a by his own chickens over on his own as a fan. I'm not for work purposes but they didn't offer any packages at all. I was able to use my American Express points to fly on Virgin Atlantic upper class for free which was amazing Nice and we stayed at the Marriott London Edition Hotel which is a five star hotel using Marriott points so we got the entire travel portion for free which was amazing overall though despite the nonsense that was the game and you know thankfully the Yankees won but you're happy you went. Oh absolutely it was just great. Being place where Prince Harry was which was exciting place where baseball isn't their thing and they're just getting to know it. It was exciting to hear the British national anthem anthem along with the U._S.. One so it's just all exciting experience on somewhere to be again Eric Lipton who's been a Yankee season ticket holder for over two decades and because of that your a legacy member. That's what that's what the club is called right. Yes probably ten years ago. I WANNA say they historically the legacy club where you get different benefits based upon how long you been either full or partial season ticket holder and the longer your season ticket holder more benefits they add on and this is your twenty third season think recanted today I twenty four th I believe twenty four th all right so now that you're up to twenty four I would imagine at two decades. There's a threshold you pass and then suddenly the benefits become greater. Is that how it works from twenty to twenty nine years there's a level benefits and then they add on a couple more for thirty to thirty nine and then by the time you're forty plus years of the highest they go there few other than if it said on as well. What are some of the benefits that you get at twenty to twenty nine? One of the best days is photo day. It's usually in the morning before Sunday game you stand on the outfield warning track and there's a rope and then all the players come by one by one and you can take pictures with them so that's one of the better events they have. Some of the others are kids run the bases this is where if you have kids twelve and under that can run the bases after a game you can go on the field and play catch with your kids after the game for one particular game each year for every two tickets you hold you get to premium upgrade vouchers which gets the champion level seats which are a great seats down the field to come with the free food. You also get non-premium upgrade vouchers which theory just get you one or two sections better than you. Have you get to buy your presale tickets for postseason. Who obviously you have to pay upfront for all? All those ahead of time right and then they give them to you correct now one of the other benefits that I got to experience with you and I don't know if this has been a benefit every year or not but it was attending Aaron Boone's pre-game press conference. This was your first time doing this. That's right yeah. This is my first time. It was offered benefit to go to the press conference so I'd never been twenty either. It's interesting because I usually watch this press conference. They'll usually show at least a clip of it or two clips of it. During Meredith Morocco is pre game report during the pregame on yes network and then if there's a rain delay they'll usually post the entire clip and or something extremely significant happens. We'll post the entire clip on yes network's social networks and something significant did happen this day but it didn't really involve Aaron Boone we were there for John. Carlos Stanton's I came back and so because of that he also met with the media and again instead of meeting with the because there was such a high interest because it's his first game back instead of just having a scrum outside of his locker they actually sit him down in the press conference area <hes> before the game so we walk in were greeted by two members from the <hes>. They're both I guess from the Ticket Department right. The two people that that greeted us was that one guy was this year is year accounting that you deal with the Yankees are now no. He's not both Nice. People is also day which I was pretty excited about because I had been to hat day since well. I haven't been to a proper navy hat day since the old stadium so it'd been that long so they brought us our hats which was nice to while we were in the press conference. I'll give you my thoughts in a second but I guess as far as the whole press conference experience going in there with the media and seeing both stanton and boone addressed the media before the game. What were what were your thoughts on that whole experience science awesome moves exciting? There weren't other people like us. Everyone else was the press that was their thought. It was interesting. They didn't give us any instructions as to whether or not we could ask questions so had we raised our hands who knows what would have happened but it was exciting. I honestly it was was that day or the day before I tape the podcast with Jack Curry and when we are done taping I told them I was going and he he jokingly said. How tough is it GONNA be for you to not want to raise your hand and as Puna question and I said I'll be honest that that was going through my mind signed? It's funny you mention that because I totally and I think I mentioned this to the the Nice lady who had had brought us back to N. Y.. Steak after I had mentioned that I was so surprised. We didn't get a quick debrief like here's what you can I do. Here's what you can't do enjoy the press conference none of that and there was literally just like here's your pass sit down right here. Enjoy the show and so you walk in and again you know they bring stanton up first all the media's there from Susan and Meredith Bruce back notably lead the only sports anchor there from any of the local New York stations but that all the beat reporters. Are There Lindsay Adler from the athletic. I believe the guy's name is Coley Harvey or from covers them for E._S._p._N.. New York so that was cool so stanton and then when Stanton was done he <hes> goes in the back and he tapes the leadoff spot with Susan Waldman for that day's radio pre-game Afterwards Boone comes in. You noticed something I've noticed it. Since what did you notice this about boone when he walked in Eric The baseball desk and I've actually I've noticed that since two. I don't know what he's like. Yeah I don't know what to deal with that like I don't know if he's just like if he's always like holding baseball roaming around the clubhouse or if it's a good luck thing or whatever the deal is it was like his prop that he played down there. It was yeah it was so it's interesting because I didn't notice it until you notice it and then I'm like Oh yeah. There's a baseball there. Now I've noticed miss that subsequently sense which has been interesting but yeah and then you know again same thing you know it was interesting in between Stanton and Boone's press conferences a lot of the beat reporters left. I don't know if I forgot who is there rehabbing <hes> having or some other news had broken but they were all speaking with somebody else and they came back in. We actually had a wait a minute for everyone to come back in and then boom obviously spoke his piece answered questions <hes> we got. I remember we we got a significant injury update eight. Oh No it was George Montgomery. I had a setback in so they had they had asked about that and or at least it was a perceived setback. I don't know if it actually was or not but yeah so then after that we get done with the with the two press conferences and everything's. This cool and Eric. Where do we think we're going after we had a plan for the whole day? Where do we think we're going? They didn't quite know where we're going. I don't think maybe we're GONNA go. Watch batting practice yeah so we had planned to go because it other perk mark. This is a season ticket holder perks right the batting practice feeling right right so another another perk is you can watch batting practice and where do you watch it from right field warning track actually years ago you went on the warning track now. They moved it so you're in the lower level in that section so as balls or hit you can catch them so you're you're not on the field anymore. You have early access to the first time we tried to do this. It was rained out and the second time because of the rain during the day they cancelled it on us so we had this whole plan set up where you're going to the press conference that where he do batting practice wrap some quick to eat go to our seats instead we get done with the press conference and we're not really sure what to do and one of the interesting things is that we couldn't leave the stadium apparently because gates hadn't opened yet and they had already. Did you figure out what the explanation was behind that by the way I was. I'm still confused by this why we couldn't leave the stadium even though they hadn't scanned our tickets now. I'm not exactly sure what happened there regardless we couldn't leave the stadium and so in lieu of that they brought us to N. Y.. Y steak and what happened when we walked in there I had never been there. I didn't even know where it wasn't stadium to be honest. We went and sat down at it's high top and we ordered drank and then the next thing we know they're bringing over time a food and we're like we'd enormous and there's no there's one of the benefits of the press conference so looking at what jumbo shrimp they bring over. I know you're not a big fan of meat but that's Bacon I've ever had I didn't I did try a little bit of it was very good. They bought overseas or salad. What else have I two or three other things definitely more than two of US could eat yeah there was I believe there was tuna and I believe there was also on the onion rings which are enormous and I posted a photo of the spread on twitter at pinstripe lanes but yeah so we walk in and the woman who works for the Yankees that brought us up went to the hostesses N._y.? Steak and said Hey these are legacy club members. They just came from the press conference reference and she just goes like okay and she seemed like a little confused but nonetheless again they sat us down at the at the table top and then after we ordered the drinks all the food came and it was just a sample for free and so we're like well okay this is our other dinner plans plans. which really were you know figuring out which stand we're GONNA go to inside the stadium so we it was the other great thing? Is there ended up being a rain delay that night so we waited out most of the rain delay until I pitch was announced in an N._y.. Steak just eating the food that was given to us for free and then obviously ordering drinks other fund note. Doc gooden happened to be there as well. I was this during where we there during hope week. Yes we were there during hope we can. I believe doc was is dining with some people who were also there as part of hope week I think but doc gooden was there so that was pretty cool. We didn't get a chance to say hello to them. Don't even know really how we got inter out of it. There must be some type of secret entrance. We don't know about you do have to enter the stadium to get into N._Y.. Y Y stake as opposed to hard rock which has its own separate entrance from the stadium but but overall I will say for the first time being an N._y.. Stake it was a place that I really thought I'd never walk into and now it's a place I have. You Been Back Sensor now. I haven't it was right before the London trips. I haven't been to the stadium since going tomorrow so maybe check it out then but the pricing wasn't crazy like you definitely get a few appetizers and be good not break the bank yeah and same with the bill that they handed us for the cocktails. It was no more or less than you would expect to pay at a steak house in Manhattan Yeah so they don't definitely don't have stadium pricing like the concessions. Do it was reasonable. It's obviously gorgeous inside Air Condition T._v.'s all over the place so if you do go Walla Games happening and I and I'll be honest I would I go down there and have a steak dinner. Will again as you mentioned. I don't really eat meat so probably not. I don't think I'd go down. Go back there to have a sit down dinner period. Even though I did think that the food was excellent but when I go post up at the bar especially during the rain delay beautiful long getting like the type of like Oak Bar that you would expect of finding a nice steak house in Manhattan what I post up at the bar and have a cocktail or two while I was waiting out a rain delay or waiting for someone. I'm GonNa get to the stadium absolutely would strongly recommend it as well because the bar seats and I believe the tabletops as well our first come first serve so you don't need a reservation for any of those as you can imagine if there's a rain delay and or inclement weather it gets a little more packed in there. It was jam packed and again. This is so surprising you being a season ticket holder for over twenty years and me going to the new stadium as much as I've gone to it over these past ten years at it's been open neither neither of US had ever been in there and it was fricken packed right when like towards as we were getting ready to leave oh definitely there are people trying to get in turn them away because they were full. If you're going with like your family or you're going on a business outing and then again end if there's the whole you know the weather issue I think any of those scenarios right off the bat but again even if none of those are present I think the bar is a cool place to to pop into at least for an ending or two to get out of the heat and or <hes> grab a drink quickly because I would imagine during the game it would it would empty out at least a little bit in their real quick Eric before we we wrap up. We covered obviously so much. You have four season tickets right now opted from two last year I guess if somebody is on the fence about getting a a partial or full plan how would you would you recommend them doing it. Would you not and if so why or why not I guess it depends what your goals are for the tickets. If you're using them for business purposes it's great to have them all to use for business business for personal eighty one games as an awful lot of games to go to I end up selling a lot of them on Stubhub <hes> which can be profitable or can be the law sometimes by the end of the season. I probably break even with what I use them. What I sell definitely get some additional benefits that you can't just by going to one off games or buying tickets as on stuff rookie when you say break? Even you mean you're only cost. Is the tickets you use or or do you are. You're not saying break even in period. You don't make all of your money back. You're saying at the end of the day you only actually ended up paying for the Games that you go to correct as opposed to London where we decided to sell the second game and actually did make double the price that I paid so we did break even on one trip so it was good but overall for the Yankees I do end up basically paying for what I use unbelievable well. He's been a season ticket holder for over two decades twenty four. This is the twenty fourth season to be exact and we're taping this <hes> during the All star break the last day of the All Star Break Yankees back in action tomorrow night Friday night for Mariano Rivera Captain American bobblehead night <hes> Eric Lipkin again appreciate you the great time obviously that we have the stadium for that rain delay game and I'll see you back there tomorrow night although I are you getting there early enough to get this bobble head I probably will be rolling in closer to first-pitch yes we will my son is all marvel so we will be there. uh-huh I'll be I'll look forward to seeing yours yours and personnel see at the gate him off all right. Thanks a lot thanks to Eric for the time the insight and of course tickets all time we do appreciate that hey I want to point to the archives which any of the podcast services that you find us you can go back to episode number one but of course you could also find us at Pinstripe Lanes podcast Dot Com John Chechevatov Ski who is the head of communications for the Baseball Hall of fame was on last season. We had him on last year right after the induction ceremony because we knew the next two induction ceremonies would be of interest a Yankee fans with of course next weekend Mariano being inducted and next year probably El Capitan being inducted. I am heading to Cooperstown and John was a great resource for a number of questions I had both on the podcast and then afterwards afterwards as we were kind of tailoring our trip around certain things tickets that we had purchased one. We're getting in one relieving so on and so forth but if you are in fact also making the trip to Cooperstown next week unto see Mariana inducted into the hall of fame you might WanNa check dat out that episode with John from the Baseball Hall of fame he drops a lot of great insight there about getting to and from cooperstown places to stay in Cooperstown and then of course inside a to the actual induction ceremony as well that.

Yankees Aaron Boone London Ms Eric Lipkin pinstripe lanes baseball New York Yankee Stadium Yankee Stadium Ralphie AVERSA Sox Scott Yankees Europe Carlos Stanton Doc gooden US twitter France Dick
InFocus Interview Show: Finding the Top Photo Spots with Jim Nix

Photofocus Podcast

37:43 min | 1 year ago

InFocus Interview Show: Finding the Top Photo Spots with Jim Nix

"You're listening to the InFocus interview. Show brought to you by photo. FOCUSED DOT com an online publication filled with education and inspiration for visual storytellers sick. This episode is made possible by our partners loom loom cube. The world's most versatile light Andro a smart storage solution. Now here's your host Bonelli. Hello and and welcome on Vanilla now. My guess is a talented author. Educator travel photographer in Popular Youtube influence. Her specializing leising travel photography and photo editing. With over five hundred free video tutorials. Please welcome Jim Knicks. Hey Jim how're you doing. And doing great finale. How are you today all super great? Ayton we have together during LUMINAIRES fourteen hour. Marathon launched coach aluminum for we did. It was fun to now. Just everyone knows I'm part of skyline on the educational. Hey Sean Director for Skyline and Jim is actually an affiliate and you're one of the top educators that we have at skyline. Yeah thank you. I've been affiliated with them for a number of years. Now been doing a Lotta tutorials back when it was Maxon and they had things like intensify pro and tonality those this kind of names and then Aurora a jar came along and then of course lew Manar and and disarm all in. I love you and I first met at photo plus plus before. I started work before I started working fulltime for Skyla and that that was a marathon day the three days and we did so it was it was fine so it's fun stuff anyway. Great to our topic today is going to be how to find the top photo spots. Do a lot of traveling photography and I checked out your your website what I really liked as you have a post about the top spots that you've enjoyed you know and you list all the ones you've gone through in the world I this can be a very very interesting and informative podcast so I guess I want to ask you is. How do you plan your trips? Yeah good question. So I'm definitely a a fan of of a researching before you go I think you'll quotas like planning work. And then you work your plan and you know whether doesn't always cooperate but for for me it comes down to a couple of things to do before every trip. The first one of course is a Your friend Google Right. Get on Google and start searching on all search for things he's like you know some of the best photo spots in wherever I'm going right. Think we were talking about my London List that I have been London many times. I've compiled a pretty long list of great spots spots there and some of them are obvious. Like if you're going to London you're gonNA shoot big Ben or the London I but anyway I always go to Google I in his kind of. Let's see what other people are saying. I'm going to get an idea of what some of the popular spots are but I don't want to get the same shot necessarily because everybody wants to kind of put their own stamp on it So I try to leave myself some time to experiment and walk around in sort of check out the spots. Google is the first one. Second one is flicker I love flicker. After I've been on flicker for you know ten twelve years or something and whenever on a trip I'll just go look on their page there for interesting photos rose for certain locations in you always come up with lots of ideas And then I also just looking at some travel blogs or travel ascites. That may be talking about things to do in certain cities. So that's kind of. Yeah it just gives you an idea of you know because I like to shoot architecture and street scenes scenes in so I wanna know like what a great architectural things while they're gonNA list museums thirty list may be big cathedrals on these Things to do in certain. The city's Kinda List Theo fine so there's always give me ideas as well. Wow that's great you know I'm GonNa Throw one in there. Believe it or not ready for this facebook book. Yeah facebook but if you type in the search bar friends in London any of your friends that live in London will appear. We're good point and you could either. I was called Couch Surfing. Invite yourself to their home now Check out your friends and ask them. That's true yeah absolutely. Yeah certainly and I've gotten to where I've gone to London. I've got a couple of friends there now so every time I go there like well what else do you WanNa see You know so you end up. Just reach out to certain photographers. Like if I'm going to a specific location and I happen to be a facebook friend with somebody there whose work I like and then I've been connected with. I'll often does reach out to them and say you know haven L. A.. I'm going to be in such and such town. Looks like you're there. What he say? Do you WANNA meet up and go walk around and if you can find a local to walk around. They always know the best spots because they live there. And frankly I find it happens to me in Austin people come to town and sometimes I go out shooting with them. And you know you end up finding spots that you wouldn't really find otherwise because local showing you and they. They obviously always have the best. The best insights you know. Let's greatly ironically. The you've mentioned that My father before he passed away I lived in Syracuse. My hold my whole childhood and teenage I left notes. Like twenty three so I went back to Syracuse and I say pop. Do me a favor take me around downtown Syracuse and the Syracuse Syracuse. You remember when you when you grew up as a as a kid right. He took me through Zoe. Credible places and new. So much information In fact we went through Syracuse University. which were right down the street from and I ended up photographing crouse college? Just look at this huge huge castle. Well Joe McNally Lindsay Adler. That's where they went now So so years later I gave Joel print of crouse. How's college so but because I asked my father like you said somebody who knows that area right? Can you brought me to places I'd never do we hadn't Syracuse. Yeah I mean and that's the thing like the locals know bring up a good point which is universities especially if he liked to shoot architecture and things like that universities diversities are just right. You know whenever I go to a city with a large university try to make it a point to get out there because usually the architectures stunning and beautiful role and and grand and Ozzy photogenic right. So that's always fun. Let's great now. What some of the best year you'd recommend because sometimes people over pack and especially? If you're traveling overseas that can get pretty expensive. Yes Oh gosh. That's a tough one because you always WanNa have everything. But you can't bring everything with you. So I've gotten over time to where I'll travel with like one mid range zoom like maybe a twenty any ford seventy and then also maybe a couple of primes and I like primes. I do a lot of street. Scenes Kinda cityscape kind of history. It's called the streets of graffiti because it has a certain application. But it kind of in that ballpark. Let's say An so prime lenses are great for for that especially in lower light where I can move fast and get shots without worrying about setting up my tripod but for the bigger grander scenes. I like to have you know that. Mid Range Zoom Zoom helps me get a lot of things like in London where I love to walk along the River Thames there through central London. There's so much shoot. And that extra little bit Zoom Range like the twenty afforded seventy would give you is great for you know being on one side of the river and say shooting across to the other side to capture building maybe reflection that sort of thing now and honestly honestly do okay so yes we always strive to get it right in camera and and then crop in camera but sometimes you're saying there you are shooting across the river do you do you hesitate to get the shot or do you stop and you know swap out lenses. Yeah so it depends. I mean so some things like Along the street you just gotTa take the photo as soon as you get it like you know. There's somebody walking down an alley in there in the the perfect spot. You don't have time to change Lynch's so you just take the shot and then if you've got a crappy unity you've got a crop it but like when I'm doing plan shots for example pulled out definitely take the time set the tripod and went using filters I use a ten stop filter. I really like long exposures especially if there's water or like a nice cloudy sky we can kind of get that movement in the in the both water and the sky and capture that I like to do those. Those are definitely take your time. Set it up and get it right eight so I do a little bit of a both really were summer from the hip on my gosh. I'm in a hurry. I gotta get this before anything changes to you. Know I'M GONNA take my time and planning set it up so it's a little bit of art and science. I guess okay. We'll show you show the key there is don't get hung up on gear that you missed the shot right. Yeah I mean it's better to have shot that you can crop and work with and come up with something that you like Versus plan to get the gear set up perfectly and then not have that moment back ride so in other words better to have a shot that you can work with even if it's not a deal versus not having the shot at all so so in in other words in short. Yeah take the shot. I mean my gosh for sure I take the shot of akin to put you on the spot. Let's say you're located where I live in Austin Texas Texas your house weather right now. It's Kinda Weird. It's it's in the mid Seventies. We had a whole poultry. Yes pretty warm today though. It's get cold again so while we were in Florida here and it's always sunny exactly so I'm I'm GonNa put you on the spot or let's say Jim happened the plane tomorrow. Come visit me We're going to photograph. Let's say And you have you have campus the FSU campus. We would do a lot of architectural stuff. Come out quickly. What are you putting your bag so issue with a Sony Camera? One of the seven series so I was at grabbed that and I would probably based on what you said which is going to be architecture and things like that I probably grab my twenty four to seventy as well as my white angle which is sixteen to thirty five and then it probably. I've I've got a little prime as well. It's a twenty eight millimeter. Had probably throw that in the bag. Just in case We do some street stuff and lower light. We're not setting up on tripod but based on what you said about what we probably GONNA shoot. Probably grab the twenty four seventy and then the wide angle and of course the TRIPOD The yeah the the remote release those kind of accessories as kind of a given I guess been requires extra batteries that sort of thing but yeah. That's the reason why the reason why masking thing is because sometimes people forget that you have the accessories are given. Yeah put a lot of times. People forget the cable release. Roy Forget extra memory cards batteries yet. I'm a bit of a planner when it comes to traveling so I'll pack my things several days in advance and then I'll take outlook again and it's a little bit. OCD on my part to be honest. But I would hate to be somewhere and say I want to do this and then realize I didn't bring whatever it is that allows me to do whatever it is GonNa do so I've definitely been on trips where you don't have everything you know as we said earlier. You can't take everything this is just as I've gotten older I've just gotten to where I want to travel lighter and I wanNA carry every just too lazy or whatever the word is But I still want to get the best shots can with whatever it is that I take. No I know you're being proficient I can't tell you how many times I've gone to photoshop world and I would bring doing so many lights soft boxes tripods I would bring light stands all this gear while and it would cost me extra money while I would put it. Believe it or not in a golf bag at the hard case called Barry Tennis. So they wouldn't charge me the over over seventy pounds but the bad part was so busy at Photoshop world. I'd never had time right so oh so now. If I'm planning a trip like that then obviously I would ask my friends who live there. Hey who who has some extra lights triggers. You know. I'd I'd rather do that if I were coming out of his you. I know you don't do a whole lot of portrait photography on so I would probably ask. Hey what friends do you have. That's local right that maybe we could borrow some of their stuff so that that's that's that's the whole part of planning what year to bring. Yes absolutely I think it's the and to me that all goes back to the what you bring goes back to the very first question. Which is Jim Heavy? Figure out which one is shoot and then based on. I've me figuring out what it is. Shoot that informs my packing right. So if I know for sure Architecture long exposures will not have to my widening the lands and a half to have my in my filters probably and my tripod whereas if I know I've only got limited time only going to see a few things then I might say you know what I'm not going to bring the tripod or the wide angle. I'm going to bring to prime lenses and just travel light and just have a small side bag. You know so I'm very much. I actually get angry at myself. Sometimes when a pack more than I can use and get their Michael. I'm not even using this weekend. Amanda myself is it is going to be efficient. You know so. It's kind of silly but now look you have a couple of other things. I throw my bag. Have you ever seen those little loon. Cubes Yeah I have one. It's fabulous I throw that in my bag because I light and always throw a flashing just in case yeah makes sense. Yeah just in case Tom. We do a portrait. And you know we're out there imagine. Let's say we're in England and there there you are standing at night right behind us. The beautiful I say Big Ben but technically is the tower correct. Yes so I think I think it's a big Ben is technically. Yeah Yeah Bel off big band including me even been informed otherwise but I think it's called the the the Queen Elizabeth Elizabeth Tower remember. I made a comment These which Harrington tonight went to England and while they took us to ten Downing Street. There's photos of US inside ten Downing Street which which is a huge. I mean it's a big deal especially if you're English so I make a comment that tomorrow. We're GonNa Photograph Big Ben and someone writes back in. Of course you permission. Nobody's allowed to see it. What are you talking about you walk outside? It's right there. That's the tower tower. Big Ben is the bell. Nobody St that except you know special guests. Okay that makes sense. Yeah so I guess we talk about what proper year to bring in. And I'm glad you brought up the point efficiency because again when you travel. You've done a lot of travelling travelling overseas. How do you compress everything especially like a tripod? Yes so as I said. I'm very much about traveling light. which for me is one of the primary reasons? I went murless many years ago and so even though a shoot is Sony a seven series. Raise the cameras. A smaller lenses aren't necessarily because it's full frame right. So that's why I tried to be selective about what I'm bringing But I have a think tank bag that I love. That is not too big. It's forget what the name is but it holds my laptop and holds a water bottle one side Tripod on the other. And I just try to uh-huh you know. Just just be smart about it really and get it on the bag and sometimes I'm like Golly I need a bigger bag but that's just an excuse to bring more stuff alkaloid elsa find that like if you force yourself to use the tools that you have with you than what you may learn more about How how to use the tools and of course there's the old thing you can zoom with your feet so if if you can't quite get the shot because you're too far away in your in your Lens doesn't can't reach that far? Maybe there's a way to reposition yourself so you can get closer by walking or some you know what I mean doesn't always work like that but Give the thing it does for he is it causes you to perhaps have to get creative on site. And that's another way to sort of force yourself to think outside the box not be hung up on this shot because I've seen this shot forty million times on facebook and I want to have that shot and so nothing wrong with getting a shot that everybody else gets but I was trying to come up with something a little bit different. I don't always succeed and I don't want to pretend that I do. But if you have less gear with you it's certainly forces you to get creative on site. which is you know can be good? This is a great of art after all. That's great I ship. Let's talk about your favorite spots. But before we do We liked teeth of a few moments to announce our first winner in the photo focused celebrates twenty one years contest. This month's giveaway is presented by exposure. Now you can show all your great photographs with exposure makers of the photo frame that lets you easily. Change your photos in a matter of minutes. This lightweight photo-framing system is perfect for anyone wanting to remember those family moments that once in a lifetime trip were those amazing landscapes you can learn more about exposure at exposure dot com and this Bolden X. P. O. Z. E. R. now. This month's winter is Jim Fanny. Congratulations Jim he's just one up to a thousand dollars exposure gift card so the photo focused team will reach out to him shortly. And don't forget you still have plenty of chances to win to get involved. A photo focus celebrates twenty one years contest by going photo focus dot com forward slash celebrate. So Yup Jim now. It's funny because during our fourteen hour marathon for the launch of a luminary for you saw behind the by aviator series. Yeah yeah that was printed on exposure the seventy one and they sent me that one and my fencing prince and what I could do swap them out really fast so how I looked at it was if you have limited wall space this is perfect because then you put it up for three months. You take it down uh-huh and you put another print up and you saw Scott born had them at While skyline at our headquarters in Washington Renton He he was the first time I've ever seen him. He had him and I thought there were so expensive. I can never afford them and then I found out that they're not expensive. Tall man you. Why letting this earlier but what I'll what I'll do the aviator? That's a picture of my little girl. Erica I've been photographic her since she was five now seventeen so I'll give her that one and then I'll put the fencing prince up so yes yes. It's really neat. I don't know if you have you seen those yet or not other than yeah. You know. I've seen them but I I don't know a lot about it's I'll have to go check it out. Yep that'd be great I I so Jim. Let's talk about your favorite spots and I was talking to you on your website and that. That's why I got the idea. The most popular of my Mike tops photo spots list. And that's enter is it nomadic pursuits dot com that is also just gymnasts dot com works. There there they both go to at the same place. Oh Great Arch. Let's talk about now. You have London Austin prog Peres. San Francisco in Copenhagen. And Yeah you you have an extensive amount so we're not gonNA cover all of them but let let's talk about London. What was your favorite? Yeah absolutely so you you know. I always talk about when. I'm traveling about being a photographer. Not a tourist. But it's it's fun to be a tourist to be truthful Go you go places you see stuff and a lot of what I like about. London are some of the well-known spot. So I'd say my favorite spots the first one is not really a spot as much is it is a a an area and that area is mentioned earlier. Like walking up and down the River Thames kind of around Westminster where you do see the I was gonNA say big band. You don't actually see Big Ben but you see the tower that Big Ben then From there down you see wonderful. Bridges all the way down to tower bridge. So that's a long stretch so that's not really a spot but The entire area I think is just ripe. You know you've got London. I you've got a graffiti tunnel. It's actually really close to the London. I you see the Millennium Bridge. You see Saint Paul's Cathedral across the bridge. I mean there's so how many things you see the Shard so another summary specific but just getting out of walking with the camera from one end to the other emmy you could spend the whole day doing thing. It honesty But it's so rewarding I think is is beautiful so essay that spot number one if you want my top three at say my second one. There's a I don't know if it's a little known but I didn't get there my first few trips until I found out it was in London. But it's kind of an east side. I'm I'm kind of north of the tower bridge but it's called Leaden Hall market And it's on that list and it was actually used as a stand in for a A place called Dia gone alley in the Harry Potter. Yeah so if you watch the Harry Potter stuff you may go to the theme park veteran. Enjoy that Because you're in Florida but I win is pretty cool but leading hallmark. It is really cool. This is beautiful architecture and you just you have to see it but it's a little bit out of the way so it's not a real easy to get to but a highly recommend you know you just take a train kind of near the Tower of London and do some walk in and it's probably fifteen twenty minute walk from tower London but I recommend going on a weekend morning because during the week the shops there are open. An and so there's food stalls and things like that but I've been there several times now on like a Saturday or Sunday morning I get up and you just head over there and have had roll myself is completely empty and it's beautiful and so I'd say that's probably one of my favorite spots in London and then as a third is probably some the train stations. I just love the architecture there and You know you can also do some semi like street photography type stuff in the train station station because people are coming and going but like Saint Pancras station which is next door to kings cross. They're both beautiful train stations very different architecturally and there's a lighted tunnel in their kind of underneath. I can't remember which one but it's got these lights that change colors and you can get some really cool photos there too. So I'd say those behind three So Fun Beautiful Town all right. Let's switch over to Copenhagen okay. Okay Yeah Gosh so Copenhagen yes. I've been there three times. I think you know again. The touristy thing is gone to you what would I historically called ny haven it's NY HIV end. But I've got a friend WHO's of Danish descent and he's corrected me. Thomas said that And I believe if I'm sure I'm going to butcher it but I believe they pronounce it knew how known or something like that but basically it's an old harbor harbor port area that has really beautiful multicolored Pastel colored buildings with a port area with boats in in between this is basically intergovernment district now and it is beautiful. If you look up Copenhagen that's probably GonNa be the first thing you're going to see photos of as gorgeous I would say another great place is the the palace there where I think the the Danish royal family lives it's called Amalean Borg And it's gorgeous and these are all really simple Or central I should say and thus easy to get to because right next to that palace is also huge church called the Marble Church which is stunningly gorgeous So there's are probably my two favorites and third would probably be Rosenborg Castle which is also right in the center town. It's got like a kind of a moat around it and gardens and Mrs Beautiful the whole. Oh town the architecture's just stunning. So if you ever get to Copenhagen you can check check on my list but just go. Wonder you're GONNA love it so beautiful a couple more. Let's do prog. Yes prog. Golly I spent almost a week there the couple of years ago and I didn't want to go to sleep. It is arguably the most beautiful city of ever seen people is to say he'll beautiful Paris's in Paris is gorgeous but I think progresses medieval architecture in the whole area of their old town square and old town the streets there and then over to the famous bridge which crosses the river leads to the castle. It's a stunning so at start with Old Town Square. You've got a church there and get up in the Old Town Hall with a view over that church and the town square. That is just absolutely stunning. You have to pay to go up the town hall. But I wasn't very much and you get up in this little tower and they let a few up at a time you get up there. Just try to time it with with decent light and spent some time but you can walk all the way around the towers. He gave us in every direction direction. So that is just absolutely stunning I would say I'm the second thing is the Charles Bridge and so the troll's bridge is the the famous bridge and it's super crowded all during a regular daytime and even into the evening. It's really crowded so highly. Recommend you get up as early really as you can stand to get up. I think I got up at four in the morning and headed over there But I had it almost to myself. There were two or three people here and there that wandered across the bridge. I'm guessing they were coming home from a late. Night of Revelry Burton based on a Halley. Were acting singing and laughing and all that so I'm guessing their night was ending in my day was beginning but the Charles Bridge is just absolutely incredible and the cool thing about it is. There's a tower on either end and that's open During the daytime you can pay to go up in these towers and again you get a great view over the bridge And he gets a nice skyline view as well there it and then I would say the third is really just wandering some of the streets in the old town No Street in particular just wondering around when you see some of the towers that are connected to Charles Briggs of the towers that used to be I think part of the fortifications surrounded the city. I think And again I kinda like things when they're a little bit less crowded so I tend to do this stuff early in the morning Because you know here's here's a travel tip for you if you will. Net is when people travel to places like this at least Americans that I've talked to in my friends you know they're like Oh. Yeah we go. We're on vacation. We go out stay. Lay We have parties or whatever we sleep in get up and do it again. We'll great while they're sleeping in. I'm out on the streets. So what I've found hang on over time is that people are on holiday. A lot of the people are when they're in central London or central Prague or central Paris. And if they're sleeping sleeping in the morning that's a perfect time for me to get up explore because I can walk right up to places that I literally couldn't even get close to Other Times a day including sunset. Because everybody's wake at sunset. Generally speaking you know so in sunrise. It's hard to get up but I I just think it's so worth great I and now I I'm inviting myself. I come to Austin and you pick. Let's go one fans spots in Austin and by the way by the way my son says I have a habit of inviting myself places. Yeah no come on. Just don't come in the summer. ORCAS sunsets are like at ten o'clock and it's so hot and humid all this horrible. I think this is a good time of year to visit like in the fall. So there's a a lot of architecture I would say the first thing I always take people to do is shoot the skyline so there's an area along the river right across from the skyline skyline. So if you do a long exposure can get Nice reflections of the the. The skyline in the rivers are recommend like a long exposure So tripod and you can do a medium range zoom like twenty four to seventy. You don't really need a wide angle but a medium for that so that's one of my favorite things to do due specially like a blue our in sunset reflections in the lights. Come on the second thing is you. You gotta get a sunset out at loop three sixty bridge so that's out west of town. It's actually not too far from where I live. And I've I've shot there so many times is it's close to home and it's just you get a great viewpoint. You hike up to the top of these rocks. mm so that's that's probably the most popular place for sunset And then the third is probably some of the street scenes around downtown. We've got An entertainment district. We've got several streets that are full of restaurants bars and shops and things like that and I think they're fun to walk around and shoot in. I find myself every once in a while like itching to get back down there. Even though I've got you know literally thousands of photos from these spots. I dislike to go back his. This is kind of fun to wander with the camera and it's row have just like a single prime lands. Something that shoots pretty wide open. I have to have you know one point. Eight eight or one point four or something and just walk around. Grab some shots so I would say that now and I bet you this earlier if you're not used to doing doing this on your own by all means I mean take a tour of you have a lot of tours and there's a lot of our friends that do tours. I spend the extra money because I mean could you imagine spending a couple thousand if not more to fly over to England and you're expecting it all these beautiful shots but you don't know where to go yes so tours. A great for that absolute. That's in speaking of Tours. This this is pretty amazing so Skylon is GonNa I ever luminaries photo camp in Iceland. I I just got the internal memo and like actually share it because this will be broadcasting by the time the The embargo about talking about it is over. So but it's a one. I guess to me one day dedicated to the unique Was Iceland experience where we in an off road tour of the ice continues. They'll be live workshops on the landscapes in the post processing. Aluminum are an all workshops and masterclasses which I thought it would be really cool is going to be recorded and available for the participants after the camp. I mean how how many times we've gone to conferences in the past. And you Kinda like Photoshop world everything all set. You're excited you hop on an airplane claim of whatever happens. Thirty thousand feet is like everything evaporates out of your mind. Take the recording. And then of course will be a bunch of photography masters and the instructions and helping so how Orley separating the groups and stuff what are they doing yes. So they're gonNA take thirty six campers. Let's call him or participants and divided item into three groups of twelve and so they've got six of the global ambassadors or global masters and. These are amazing photographers like Yurii Bella Gershon who's who runs ice on photo tours like if you want to see Iceland like he would be the guy to see it with and he's he's one of the later Tercera me Daniel. Corden Albert Draws Jason Charles Hill. Emily So I mean that just literally some amazing photographers. Geography is so anyway. They'RE GONNA have thirty six participants three groups of twelve and so two masters and to Skylab team members are GONNA join each group of twelve so it's GonNa be a group of twelve with two masters into Scotland folks so for a folk supporting twelve participants. And and you know each group's going to have a different schedule but every group is going to end up visiting the same locations just on different days and surprisingly the same stuff just not on the same day so it's GonNa be pretty amazing a lot of hands on training plus the participants said received recording. And it's funny because I looked on the list we have Dima and Alex going so you have the CO founder of the company and the brains behind Luminary Alex who's a CEO. But we were at photo plus. I was amazed he was out in the trenches with us. Teaching looming are people. Walking by and one of the gentleman made a comment and he he looked at me and said wow that guy really knows his stuff I said I hope so he just ease the CEO. He looked at are you serious the CEO's out here you're actually give the devils and we have right next to the CO founder and the guy who's writing the software you you would have thought that I just gave everyone huge huge Christmas present all your. They're passionate users right. In addition to leading the company and in coming up with the ideas I mean. They're they're obviously passionate and Ivan's Potanin his. VP of engineering. I thank or something so super super smart and knows the ends now. So it's it's going to be an amazing and he's trying to great photographer to research and and people are interested in it it's AT SKYLINE DOT com. I'm four such camp skyline dot com foresights camp. Now Jim if we want to find out more about you where can our listeners find you yeah yeah great question. I appreciate that so I do have my blog which is nomadic pursuits dot com or just JIM NEXT DOT com. They both work. But you know truthfully most of my time I spend creating tutorials for Youtube in so if you just go on Youtube and look gymnast or if you just go to YouTube dot com forward sports flash Jim next you'll find me there but I've got literally hundreds of tutorials about how to use Lamar and I'm in the middle of a series right now. How about luminaires four? which is a getting a lot of a lot of feedback? A lot of a lot of engagement and interaction has been a lot of fun. I'm having a lot of Lamar format sales. Oh so that's probably your best to is there. Hey Jim thanks so much for taking time out of your schedule today and giving us your expertise on areas for us is to go out and photograph. Yeah thank you. I appreciate the opportunity and have a great one. I'm talked against hearty later. You're listening to the InFocus interview show. If you like these interviews be sure to subscribe to our weekly photo focus podcast on photo focus dot com. Thank you for joining us.

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Effectively Wild Episode 1415: You Cant Predict Baseball

Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast

1:05:20 hr | 1 year ago

Effectively Wild Episode 1415: You Cant Predict Baseball

"You almost almost almost in writing stories about like what was roster crunch. Gonna look like when players were coming back but then it just kept happening. He just it just keeps happening <unk> over and over and i don't really it's been really crazy to watch but it's been it's been really cool because it's very clear that a lot of the established guys are they're. They're finding a a lot of a lot of joy out of watching some of these younger less experienced guys. Come up and definitely make a difference. If you look at the the yankees dip shirt on yankees handke's dot com <hes> there's there's always a couple of guys who are listed as unavailable at the bottom of any of these and the the yankees list officially goes long enough that their names being cut off with the police because they're just too many guys not only on the ten day i'll but the number of guys who are have been on the sixty day i l and the mayor may not end up finding their way back. I'm curious sort of how you said. It's a mystery how they're doing this but how how are they doing this because there was a stretch where the yankees starting pitching in particular was was very bad going into the deadline and there is a lot of speculation that they would try to acquire <hes> another frontline starter to supplement the group that they had that has been underperforming in various different ways and then things have turned around. I imagine some of that is the benefit of getting to play the orioles but what it has been different over the last you know fifteen days in the month of august in the latter part of july that has helped these guys sort of turn things yeah i think i think the coaching staff is just really put in a lot of time and energy into approaching their pitching problem creatively masahiro tanaka splitters twitter's been an issue for him all year unfortunately and they have changed his grip to the extent where to me. It almost looks like more before call so but i think that's the thing that a lotta yankees. Fans were concerned about like they saw this hitching their like. What are they doing about. This and i think what's lost is that they actually are doing things about it. I think i don't think larry rothschild is is getting much sleep right now but you know they changed 'cause splitter grip. They're changing changing james paxton like hich usage incorporating curveball more and i think yeah i think getting away from teams seems like the twins in red sox. <hes> has been really good for them but i think what's been really instrumental is just that they seem to have kept this mentality that like this was one back week. One bad we put it behind them and it hasn't snowballed which is kind of miracle given given how things looked heading into the deadline line for sure yeah. I was gonna ask about the atmosphere. You mentioned some of the veteran guys enjoying seeing the younger guys succeed but i would imagine it'd be very easy for a team that is going through this sort of thing and just dropping like flies to get down and think this isn't our year and we can't keep healthy. I think what j. chaffee wrote in his piece for fan graphs this week that i think there have been something like three guys <hes> this whole season who've been on the active roster and have not been on the i l. so it's like gleyber torres and i think austin remind and and maybe someone else in the show since he came over he he missed the first couple of games of the season but it's something where i would think it'd be easy for for people to get down about and yet i could also imagine it may be being a bonding experience because you go through this difficult time together and somehow you keep winning and maybe that makes you stronger somehow they've they've definitely embraced it rallied through it and you know after that red sox sweep weep talked to aaron judge and i asked him okay. Can you explain to me what is so exciting about. Seeing the production you guys are getting from these these guys who are just coming up and coming in and out and i would say that judge was about as a few sieve as he's been all season in talking about what enjoyment and he and the rest of the team are getting from watching guys like dealer shell on mike tuchman <hes> find the success. I think you know early in april. When everyone started dropping dropping like flies i would say they're kind of this sense of like. Oh my god what is happening you know there was a little bit more concern. I would say but now oh i think and i think this is something that's going to serve them very well down the stretch that they have seen the adversity and they've seen that they can get by with with the depth that they have been so yeah. They very much turned it into their thing. They're very much enjoying being suddenly scrappy underdog yankees. Switch doesn't really make sense. I do wanna ask about the the depth thing especially after a deadline where they were pretty quiet in in terms of their activity because i think there are a number of people who saw some of the moves they made in the offseason the accumulation of players who were perceived as depth pieces. I think we'll get to d._j. Lemay who and how we're very much depth piece he has proven to be but there is sort of a a concern or criticism that this was unnecessary depth than they should have gone out and just has gotten some warmer key guys and then they didn't end up acquiring another starter at the deadline. Is it just that they're they're comfortable with the guys they have. They think the changes that you've highlighted are gonna be sufficient or <hes> is this did they try to get someone in. They weren't weren't quite able to. I'm curious because it just does seem like such a contrast trust the approach that they had <hes> in the winter which was there cannot be enough player and we'll sort of sorted out when when these guys get to get to camp yeah i just don't think the options that were on the starting pitching market in particular we're kind of seen as to the point where they would be a true significant upgrade outside side of marcus stroman and trevor bauer and the bluejays asking price but my understanding for pretty much every team for stroman was very high and so oh i think there's a lot of confusion over how the blue jays wound up with a return that they did but yet i think i think the yankees were very sure with what extent they were willing to go to acquire starting pitching and i think the market was pretty limited in the onc- metson reds hijacked it. I think they kind of new life like okay we have to we have to find the success within within what we have. I think the off season was really interesting. I definitely didn't really think much of the d._j. Lemay <unk> assigning but so asked me to the list of people who look cycles but i was kind of surprised that they didn't just bring in someone but i guess i guess they didn't like what was out there yeah i i wasn't pulling away by the mayhew signing either. I don't know if anyone was does. He is the one other name i was searching for the player who has not been on the this year. Although he did have a groin strain and miss a few days 'cause everyone's had something at some point and i was taken aback when someone told me after that sighting like in february and i think i may have mentioned this on the show but someone who works in a front office said that their teams projection system for whatever reason i didn't get any details had lemay hugh as a slightly better player than bryce harper which <hes> sounded completely crazy at the time but has turned out to be true at least this season. I wonder whether there is something we missed about me. Who did we underrate him because he was playing in course field and maybe he is not the type of player who has actually helped as much bhai chorus field. I mean he is a pretty good contact guy and you put the ball in play. Obviously it's it's helpful to be in cores with that pick outfield and everything but he's hitting as well now as she did their better if you do the park adjustments. I think i think what's lost. Is that e._j. Was injured a couple times last here. I think it's been really interesting. The team made up of former rockies to to learn so much about the rockies this year but i think i think something that's really overlooked in playing in colorado is that you kind of have to learn to be two different hitters and our guests in two different pitchers so i wouldn't be surprised tiff actually d._j. Being able to play all of his games at sea levels kind of helped him to be a little bit more consistent but no. I thought the thought that d._j. Was kind of one of those guys who is left there on the market and brian cashman was like sure why not but you know they started talking you about acquiring him basically right after the world series so i think that's something that most fans were like. Where did this signing come from but jim jim hendry who is now a yankees. Special advisor drafted d._j. Lemay he with the cubs has always been a huge d._j. Fan and so he was he was a huge advocate kit for him and then those negotiations played out over over a couple of months so there there was actually an intense in a strong desire. I would say which <hes> i just think it's it's funny that i think the general consensus was cashman's just accumulating debt but it was it was much more her <hes> specifically intentions than i think most of us predicted so looking ahead to the the next little bit the the yankees of obviously benefited from the red sox collapse and they also are lucky in the next stretch of games that they have is in super terrible so by our <hes> <hes> right arrest of seasons strength of schedule behind just the twins astros and raise they have the fourth easiest schedule they're obviously going to you have to roll with this group because we don't have another august deadline but they are i would imagine super concerned about the next month and a half games but are looking ahead to the postseason and we'll get some of their players who are on the injured list back in time for the playoff run so you don't have to make specific predictions although you could if you wanted to but i'm curious who among this group that has emerged and has helped them so much as they've battled through these injuries. Do you anticipate continuing to be part of this esteem as they move into october versus. Who do you think is going to end up <hes> sort of sitting on the sidelines when they get some other other pieces back. Mike cockman c'mon has earned a spot. They definitely have an outfield crunch so you know in in september. Obviously that won't be an issue but i think he's definitely kinda. Kinda wanna roll obviously shall as i can't believe they went from having gail into har- almost when rookie of the year go down for the whole season and then joe shelhah comes up and actually lays better than me i i don't i don't get it. I don't get it for for gio. I think my interest is in is in the long term. You know they've they've now got to third baseman who can really hit but i think the interesting one in that. He has shown sean so much defensive versatility. He's really taken off the plate and he's just like a really goofy guy like i think they really love his passion and just like hardcore like grinder emotion of it. I guess the big thing that i'm looking at until the end of september is whether or not they kind of don't wanna say take it easy but the the thing that they should be competing for now is best record through the regular season season homefield advantage but also with all the aches and pains and everything that's going on. I'm i'm interested to see how they kind of used their roster. When we get to september in general i'm just so fascinated by where they're finding. These guys are how they're finding these guys or is it just that they're finding them or are they creating eating them in some way i mean should we be talking about the yankees. As the astros of building hitters i mean the way that we talk about the astor's improving pitchers it. It seems like the yankees have that ability with. Some of these guys are just kind of come out of nowhere. Is it that they're better at evaluating skills that are already there. I mean when they go oh and pick up luke voight for nothing when they get tuchman for nothing for nothing where those guys good or did they do something to unlock. Whatever layton ability was there or you know you could look at aaron hicks for instance who some like he was going to be sort of a failed prospect and then and they turned him into an excellent player or or he turned into one with them and then there are just some totally mind blowing ones like cameron eben who who was with cleveland to needed outfield help as desperately as anyone and they let me go and he's got a one fifty five w._r._c. orsi plus with the yankees in one hundred seventy five plate appearances may never hit like this before so is this just total fluke lake they they are somehow getting the best season of every single one of these guys who we've never heard from before and we'll never hear from again or do you think that they are are adept at getting the most out of players that other organizations haven't been able to. I guess to go down the list. I know that they really liked how hard luke boy could hit the ball and you know i don't think they necessarily changed a whole lot with him but they did some new you know routines and things it to help him kind of stay in its swing a little bit but i think for luke's just the just the consistency is really helped. I think it's the same thing for her mytalk man. I think you know i'm just not really getting that experience and he said he said something recently to the effect of like you know when he would be up with the rockies he knew that the one pinch hit appearance was probably going to be his at bats for the week or whatever and so i think in getting regular reps he's really been able to settle down a lot. He definitely was too anxious about proving himself in colorado and i think getting out of that mindset has really helped him. I think gio or shall is made some pretty big adjustments to his swing but cameron may actually began kind of a swing overhaul before he got to the yankees and so when he was bouncing around with the indians and giants. I don't think the i don't think he'd fully settled into those changes i think he has i think you've still getting adjusted to them and i think he's really unlocked that allen. It's kind of it's kind of like a like. An old dog learns his new trick. Thing is he's. He's really been receptive to that and it's been it's been very funny because he's just so cameras so oh funny and so to see him hit. This is just it's it's another one of those things obviously the yankees them so seem to have embraced the sort of underdog you vibe which is unusual for them. I'm curious because you obviously also interact with a lot of yankees fans especially on twitter. How is the fan base taken taken to this team and are they nervous excited. Are we going to be dealing with yankees. Fans who find themselves to be underdogs even though their team might end up with the best record in the american erkin league. Come the end of the season. I don't think are going to think of themselves as underdogs but i definitely embraced guys like guys like geo. Oh and mike talk men and kim even and it's been it's been super interesting because i think fan base has been really really frustrated with the injuries that they've had i think every time a new one comes up. It's kind of like a throw your hands up in horror type of thing but then it keeps panning out i would i would say having having not covered the nineteen nineties juggernaut teams i would. I would say that it's probably pretty easy to really league emotionally invested in this type of squad. I would say it's at sanzar is out of their minds and passionate is you as you could imagine is there as they're seeing all these like crazy bottom of the lineup productions and domingo her on taking off and things like that. I think it's i think it's it's really given them a lot to be excited about so it's been fun. I think it's so weird. It's like of course you want. Kleber tourists to be healthy and then there's a a scare about his health but if almost figure that if he were to be unavailable will you just have tyrod strata come in and improperly just hit great anyway just because that's what's happening this all season tire strata has a a one twenty plus in fifty four plate appearances but it's it's like almost every one of these guys in mike petrello wrote about it at m._l._b. Dot com about how the yankees have historically low percentage of plate appearances given to bad hitters and that wouldn't have been surprising at the start of the season when you look at their projected lineup but if you knew that most of that lineup was i kind of miss this much of the year and the guys who've actually replaced them and in some cases the replacements of themselves gotten hurt like edwin gwin encarnacion for instance you'd never would have expected line-up depth to be the strength of this team and yet it has been so i don't know if it is his player evaluation and recognizing guys who are just kind of buried in triple a for whatever reason or development some combination of the two and it's funny that you mentioned that void just needed to go somewhere where he'd have a longer leash and he'd get some rope and he'd be able to actually play for a while because the yankees have never ever been that team that would like be the one to give the rookies time to you know sinker swimmer proved themselves. It was always the yankees were the place where you had to be good right away or you were sent down or shipped out or something so i guess that is a reflection of the desperate times that they've been in at times this season but maybe also also that their management has improved in their patient with these players and so i was gonna ask how much credit aaron boone deserves for this it because you know savages rant aside like obviously he has steered this team to the best winning percentage in baseball right now despite losing losing most of the team most of the time and you'd think that would make him a favorite for many of the year award because that's how we award that typically it's just kind of you know who had the toughest time or who surprised us the most and so he has an recruited these players he hasn't made these traits or signings and <unk> at times. It's not like he's had a lot of choice when it comes to who is going to play on any given day but i guess just the fact that he is open to trusting some of these guys whereas other managers would be like get me some generic veteran again. A guest cameron may be an is the generic and he hits like v._p. So it no matter what you do yeah. I think i think i it's almost a lot of credit goes to the guys in clubhouse. That definitely comes down from the top op from c. C sabathia continues through with a lot of the more established big name guys. They really just want these guys to come up and be comfortable. You know handmaiden <unk> aaron judge not aaron judge these young you know cameron c._c. Remember how uncomfortable it was to come up and so oh i think one a lot of credit goes to the players themselves for making what seems like a really welcoming environment and saying hey mike talk men he mike hord would come up and be yourself but no i mean. I think it's kind of nuts that a team with aaron judge john carlos san luis severino how edwin encarnacion we're talking about aaron boone being a manager year candidate like anyone can drive that team to a hundred wins or whatever but that's not the team he has. I think you know i think he's just really it's really impressive to me that despite all the injuries despite a lot of circumstances that could ultimately turn it into kind of a doom and gloom environment where guys are just dropping like flies. He's somehow been able to keep the room. Come to a point where they see it as a real rallying thing and i think the way he's probably framed it and the support his probably given to you know a lot of the more established guys but also the younger as i'm sure that has that has really helped and i think i think a lot of credit really also needs go to the coaching staff particularly hitting coaches marcus in p._j. We don't we don't know everything they do behind the scenes but as much it's easy to say like you know luke voi- mytalk men finally get playing time. It's not just that but no i mean i think a lot of managers probably would have lost the room at some point and they are definitely more united than you have. Guys like brett. Gardner is accurate in camera mabon saying this most cohesive happy team. I've been on despite you know looking around and seeing basically graveyard on the i l. you mentioned briefly. There and i wanted to mention him too because he is someone who i think. A lot of people were surprised that the yankees even brought back doc this year since it seemed like they had locked him in the outfield and that hasn't turned up to the case because stanton's barely played and gardeners having his best offensive offensive season at age thirty five cents like i don't know twenty fourteen or so and he has remained productive and i just got curious because he is up over forty thirty career wins above replacement right now and if you go back to his rookie year two thousand eight when he only played forty two games but looking at just all players players since that year he ranks seventeenth in baseball among position players in baseball reference were like tween hall of famers ascend like perennial all-stars and guys you think of as the best players in baseball and brett gardner would never really beyond that list he certainly not the first person who comes to mind but he's just been very consistent solid defensively and on the basis even at somewhat advanced ages ages and gets on base. He's just sit good player very underrated even on a team where you wouldn't think there would be many underrated players. That's the really nice thing that guardia. He is still gardy. You know it's the playing all the time thing. I think is something that in a perfect world he wouldn't have had to play all these damn games but but now i mean he's he's really been able to you got it this year. Obviously he's had some more power but i think think everything i think a lot of the small things that brett does hit really underrated but he's just just kind of funny. You know he's like kinda. It kinda grumpy southern southern brett <hes> just to still doing his thing well. I don't know how any subsequent season could give you as many the story lines as this has the it's probably difficult to cover just in terms of the sheer amount of news and people you have to get to know but on the other hand. There's always something to write about. I guess 'cause there's just always some improbable story and some other person who's doing something that so you wouldn't expect kyle. Gosh yoka has a one fourteen opium plus sure why not the just everyone doesn't make sense surprised by people's stats my thing ben and yet clint frazier can even crack this roster frazier. Are we gonna see more clint. Frazier issued a future with the yankees i think he does they need a left fielder assuming they let gardy walk and with with a lot of those younger guys <hes> hitting arbitration like aaron judge gary sanchez payrolls actually gonna jump next season so i think it's kind of undervalued how much having a cost controlled guy like clint there is going to help. I don't really know you know. It's like clint. Clint made some mistakes. He needed to work on his defense. I don't necessarily think his stay in aaa is punitive. I understand is probably probably very difficult for him but it is such a it's such a lightning rod story where there are some people who think the yankees are out of their minds for keeping him in triple a. right now and then there's some people who are you know kind of all all the talk man stockman train and it's. I don't know anderson i understand. They don't really need him right now because they have enough outfielders at the moment but i guess like everyone else. I'm interested very interested to see where this goes. I'm curious you know you you mentioned the important role. He's having in the clubhouse with all of these young guys. I would imagine that this being cici's he's last season. This probably isn't quite how he wanted things to go with injuries. How how has this last year kind of ben for him. Is he taking it in stride. I i mean he'll be back at some point here so it's not like he's pitched his last game for the yankees but i'm curious how having the injuries in his final year has has sort of hit him and is it just that he's leaning into embracing the younger where where his head at right now i think i don't think sisi expected to need as much time off as he has but you know he said the other day that like the pain in his knee is normally at an eight and then it's just yeah it's just he he goes on the i l. or takes a break over the london stretcher all-star break when it's at a ten but something stacey said in his retirement press press conference in tampa and he was like look. I just wanted to be able to go out there and give it my all and not worry about the health of my knee and i will. We'll just replace my knee as soon as as soon as the season is over but i think c._c. Kinda knew that he was going to have to push through a lot. Insuries bummed not to be pitching more consistently but you know he. He knows the shape of his knee. He knows where things are and i. I would assume he had a pretty good sensitive is going to get a lot of time off this year. It's just the the knee. Issues sounds so bad like hearing him. Describe it as like a constant eighty. I was like oh my god man doing this. How are you doing this. Are you going out in pitching all of your weight on a knee. That feels like an eight out of ten on a good day professional athletes. They're nothing like us absolutely nothing so less than i wanted to ask ask mega which of these current guys might hang around after the guys return so i wanna know about the injured guys returning and some of the more prominent ones who were still on the l. whether it's severino potenza sue <unk> stanton which of these guys is is the most most likely least likely to come back and really contribute and be a prominent part of the playoff roster case a least likely is probably jacoby to kobe ellsbury. I would say let's see gary. Sanchez is supposed to be back this weekend. John carlos stanton has started baseball activities again so is hitting a t. Luis severino should everything everything go. Well and i'm really interested to see how they use him. Am interested particularly because domingo. Her mind has pretty much at the point where he's pitched more this season than any other in his career. I would say you know getting getting sevi- and potentially dull in back. Obviously that's that's the kind of rupe that you think will make the most immediate impact since since the team is hitting well right now but you know i just i just feel bad it's been it's been a lost season for stanton and i think it's going to sour him in the eyes of a lot of the fan base in a way that i don't necessarily know is fair because he can't really help that he strangest p._c._l. But yeah i think i think everyone's looking forward to the to the savvy delon weapons as being there now is they said the deadline type additions well. You don't have to change your prediction but i'm curious. If you would like to revise either either up or down your preseason production for final wins. This is incredibly root of maine. We were asked people to do this so you can. Just tell me to get lost. Also that is a third third option available to you know i'm sticking with one zero five. Yeah i get a vein. Should it sounds reasonable timmy. I i've now. It sounds about right now. I have been so insecure about making that prediction and then every time they just keep winning. I'm like wait. Is this team of like random. Quad eight guys going to bail me out. Effectively wild tastic her right well. You can follow the latest twists and turns in the yankees improbable season at the athletic reading lindsey and following her on twitter at lindsay adler. Thank you very much for coming on and attempting to explain the inexplicable guys and make i will see you at tapers sounds good right that will do it for today and for or this week thank you for listening you can support the podcast on patriot by going to patriotic dot com slash effectively wild signing up to pledge some small monthly amount help. Keep the podcast broadcast going and get yourself some perks. The falling five listeners have already done so eric richardson ryan mosier kyle rohan chad goldberg gavin radke. Thanks thanks to all of you. You can join our facebook group at facebook dot com slash group sash wild you can rape review and subscribe to effectively wild on itunes and other podcast carr's platforms. Keep your questions and comments for me and sam and meg coming via email at podcast pancras dot com or b pitra misting system if you are a supporter order thinks that higgins for his editing assistance this week you can buy my book the m._v._p. Machine how baseball's new nonconformist are using data to build better players. If you like yeah please say so. Leave us a review on amazon good reads. It does help us out. If you see us at sabre seminar. Please say hello mcknight. We'll be doing a live episode on saturday so you will hear it even if you're not at sabre seminar couple of days after that so please have a wonderful weekend and we will talk to you early next week. I least expect respect. Kindly fade direct you to make each dream ma come to ooh and if it's clear you need there is no explaning amy just happen and so did you. You came to me at all.

yankees baseball twitter aaron cameron eben lemay hugh mike tuchman astros brett gardner domingo larry rothschild james paxton colorado red sox John carlos stanton mike orioles jim jim hendry gary sanchez j. chaffee
Mason & Ireland (HR 1)

Mason & Ireland

35:45 min | 1 year ago

Mason & Ireland (HR 1)

"Wait a lot going on ton gone on for Thursday absolutely we got an NFL game going on yeah. We Got Doc Rivers Talking Yeah Doc rivers go to Seattle but how where's your concern level on Kenley Jansen after last night his eighth blown safe he. We thought he'd ACTA very shakes. Yes us when we thought we were out. He pulls us back again. It is so weird 'cause yesterday I had all those numbers about Kenley Jansen and in September and how good he has been six appearances allowing just one run during those six appearances allowing just two hits during those six appearances seven strikeouts a win in three saves and then last night blows the save. My concern level is back to scale of one to ten. What is it it is? It's a good solid seven again. I'm nine Greg. I'm definitely at a seven as well. It's it's seven yeah Tony Threes. He's wait a minute if the playoffs started today if there's a playoff game tonight yes wouldn't you much rather see Joe Kelley Kenley Jansen get the ball in the ninth inning correct. That's that's a nine at this moment yeah yeah you guys are nine just or no yeah but he look he he had been on a really good run right then on a really good run but I don't know if we can give him credit for that anymore. The play offs starting to we cut near the four seamer every can good one of these looking good statue. Give me I'll give you one like he's. He's never had this many blown saves and look. I never had this high of an era cutting icy. I think it is all very very dicey. See and I think you know if there's one thing to be concerned about you earlier this week. I said well maybe cody bellinger tailing off as a reason for concern now the reason for concern is definitely still Kenley only Janson. He just hasn't been right consistently this year despite getting off to a good start in September. How much do you put into it that he pitched the night before Org got a four out save on a back to back? Let me say playoffs that that could happen but I'm tired of four out saves. There's no reason for Kenley Jansen how to throw a four out save at this point. He is a one inning guy. I'm not looking to Kenley Jansen for four outs anymore. That is very very 2017. Dave Roberts I emma ma I it's like you guys are not noticing. You're saying I'm not going to throw a bucket of water on the fire and the entire ranches on fire I would we do not use Kenley Jansen period. Oh no you've got to use Kenley Jansen why you because he still is a high leverage arm Kenley Jansen can still be effective. There is something to be said for back to back as do I expect him to save every game in the postseason this year maybe not is there a number. He's now eight blown saves. which is an all time? I'm hype for right. Is there a number he would hit like I assume they're still gonNA keep giving him the ball in the regular season just to figure it out if those two or three more are you all out two or three remorse saves is probably unrealistic. He's not gonNA blow three saves in the final what eight nine nine games three times in the last night I think that's that's really unlikely whether even if he converts his next three saves I still am going to have a level of concern about Kenley Jansen and there's and there's no way around it. I mean you know for as has good his he was coming into last night's performance he just has had a wildly inconsistent season and I'm telling you we are going to hold our breath a lot during ninth innings during this postseason and particularly ninth innings in one run games if something goes was down to the wire one hundred percent right and here's the thing the other thing is I would have an arm behind Kenley Jansen. If Kenley Jansen puts two runners on in the ninth inning I would have an arm behind behind him ready to go. I would not be afraid to pull Kenley Jansen from a save appearance. If it's a one run game and he puts two runners on you're absolutely right and they should and last night they had pedro buyers ready. They did not have to go to to Kenley Jansen again on the second day WHOA. I'm glad they went to because I wanna see what we've got. That's what they're doing. They're trying find things out right now. They're experimenting. They're seeing if they can pitch Kenley on back to back night. Obviously you can't yeah and and maybe just can't throw him in back to back nights anymore. Maybe it's Pedro. Why is it gets a say? Maybe it's Joe Kelly gets to save. Maybe it's who gets a safe at this point. I'M A B K Anybody Kenley. Bring somebody else in can't be anybody but can lead yeah well. I still got to believe in Kenley otherwise this season if they will go as far Kelly turns into closer they're fine. They will go as far as Kenley. Jansen can take take them again. If that means he he can't carry them that means they aren't going to get there the other side of that is we've seen this movie. We know he's blown a career high eight saves. We know what happened when he puts him in his cutter's not cutting somebody else. Why do you have to marry yourself to that predicament? You just created a big because at that point you you're better off just leaving them off the postseason postseason roster altogether and then you'll be on the postseason roster Garcia's the first series. He'll be on throughout the postseason. You're not gonNA leave Kenley Jansen. It's not the postseason roster and he's still going to get the ball in save situations i. I don't have any question about that. I just don't think his leash is long at all anymore. I agree that the the numbers that made throughout yesterday with how he's been in September actually do show a lot that he wasn't giving up a lot of hits he was using the four seamer and the slider and keeping guys off balance for the cutter so he continues to do that on one game situations where he's not pitching on back to back days. I think they'll be fine and he will be fine himself. It just depends on what you're GONNA do on those back to back nights to us by says. Do you use oriented. Yes you used gasoline. I mean they're going to put the guys in the situations so they can best success. I'll tell you the one thing that and to judge point the one thing that we cannot ignore is the Joe Kelley was unbelievable in last year's postseason the Red Sox he was he and Nathan were the reason why the red sox won the world series last year in terms of their pitching so I don't think we can sleep on Joe Kelley as is a gigantic contributor in this postseason because as the season has gone along he has gotten better and better. You know those really good seats that timing the SORTA sits in landmark Walter C see time by Mary Hart. I get one of those two Kenley Big Guy Right there cocktail so there is no no dodger game tonight so this debate will not move tonight. They open they since Araki's tomorrow what is happening tonight and this is a fascinating dilemma. Dilemma is into hours Yup the Jaguars host the titans on Thursday night football Josina Anderson who who covers the NFL for ESPN just tweeted this. I'm told Jalen. Ramsey is fine playing Thursday night football tonight but a source just told me he doesn't anticipate being a member of the jags by next Sunday crazy teams like Kansas City Baltimore tomorrow. Minnesota Oakland Philadelphia and Seattle have all made substantive inquiries but my understanding is almost every team has at least placed a call Yup all right so explain to me why play Jalen Ramsey if she's right and they're going to trade in the next ten days and by the way if he plays tonight he cannot like traded tomorrow in play for another team Sunday. You can only play in week two for one team so if he sets foot on the field tonight and plays that's it. He's done for week two. I don't get it if number one if he gets hurt you blow your trade yeah number number two. How is that not a distraction? Would you play him. I would not play them. You think they're gonNA you're an Owen to team. This is not your year and you want to preserve as much if you really hope to get and I don't think they will if you really we hope to get two first round draft picks. That's only going to help happen with a healthy jalen Ramsey because he's playing in his fifth year option. There's no guarantee you would have to sign item or franchise him after the season in order to keep them so it's going to be very difficult for them to get full value for Jalen Ramsey. The last thing you can afford Ford is for him to get hurt right now. It doesn't make any sense to me and I don't get here's here's another aspect to it. He got in a fight with Doug marrone the coach it was very public invisible and on TV the jags were the most disappointing team in the league last year and as you pointed out there off to an open to start this year. Are we sure they're backing the right guy. Is Moroni even gonNA beer. You're from now why trade Jalen Ramsey when you don't have to. Is it because you like you were saying you have to pay him if you keep them. I'm guessing that's what it is. You got to pay him if you so if you're going to the guy that much money you don't necessarily want to be tied. They had a chance to give him a contract. After this fourth year memory came up to camp brinks truck because he wanted to my fifth year option somebody initially give up here. I'm going to show up to Scott McCarthy. Here's brinks truck. You got a few years but neither one of us will be here by the time that thing but but it it it seems to me that that would be the hey if they play him yeah. It's one of the most head-scratching things really ever. It's really really where they truly do know that they're moving him because they don't WanNa pay him and they're gonNA move in the next two weeks. You can't play it's like when the Reds Ed's traded Yossi El Puig to the Indians this year and Yossi ELP. We stayed in the game for the fire. The trade was completed and got into a fight right right. It's like why risk the value once you know somebody is going to be moved doesn't make right if you've ever doubted the power of this show the power of Mason and Ireland. I doubt it everyday yesterday. Greg Bergman proclaimed something and then this morning it happened. It was unbelievable. Unbelievable actually was good time. It's like it's like they were listening in. They said Yep oh yeah. We can't keep that guy help. He's out. We'll explain lean coming up mason and Ireland. ESPN LA I coming up for you we are going to bet some mythical money today mythical money powered by HMS Capital don't gamble on your home loan rate let HMS Capital Compete to win you. The best home loan rates call eight three three to five five fifty six ninety eight or visit. HMS Capital Dot Com he of the Parlay Harley King Dunce cap gesture of parlays John Ireland has how many parlays this week this doing three starting with the game tonight eight. I'll lay the one out tonight because the pheasant coming on until five thirty kickoff so gregory right. Dan Goes at one thousand one thousand tonight. I'M GONNA go bigger over the weekend one thousand awesome tonight only a three team. We're going to pick up a little six K. to play with okay good good all right first half under nineteen point five okay okay Marcus Mariota under two hundred four point five two hundred four and a half yards passing okay he hasn't exceeded that in game and Leonard for net rushing attempts attempts under nineteen point five which he has has not hidden his last year getting funky with your pets. Yes Sir an easy way to Greg. I got a little offer for you okay can I can. I give my bets for tonight's game game tonight. I'm also going to do a par lay off. You guys would eventually come together. They're done with a real parlay. King is I'm going with. I knew you'd come to myself so I'm going to thousand on this an easy thirteen nine hundred thirteen K I'm going to go under nineteen and a half for the first half under thirty eight and a half for the entire game and Corey Davis under three reception and Scott it okay okay so those grants to keep things really simple yeah Gimme five K. on Tennessee minus the point and a half five krld wow you're given given points on the Road Yep. That's a bold play. Yes all right greg and I get a little offer for you okay. You and I have a bet we made it at the beginning of the season that the dodger catchers I would hit twenty five home runs at twenty four correct there in an unbelievable cold streak. They haven't hit any in in two and a half weeks. Yes yes so here's my offer but the Germans next week no. I'm not going to be here tomorrow. He's giving you a chance to win. We Orly not going to be here for part of next week. Oh boy so here's the offer. I'll give you five K. right now to get out of the bet. I'll just give it to to you. If you say no on Monday it drops to three Tuesday. It'll be two and on Wednesday. It'll it'll go down to one and then if you don't do it by next Wednesday it just we let it ride for ten. That's insanity. You're telling me yesterday he was going to be so I thought about I wanNA make it harder. I know I know if it was seven. I'll be like all right. I'll run. They're bound to hit a random need. I need the White Cay right now. I need the weekend no the point of clarification yes last night at the end of the Game Jazz Danny Yes will Smith who is technically the catcher right was on second base. Yes Russell Martin came into pinch as a catcher none of them what's Will Smith. He doesn't get to catchers in the same inning. Both players are identified as catchers Gosh but but wait a minute you're saying at that moment I know the Catcher of record in the game has got to be the guy gets the home run right. No it doesn't get to dodgers catchers it. The BET was dodger catcher one eighty five or more than run. I would argue that at that point in the game was we'll throw that at the Fed I would argue that he was a catcher I that he has no no no that is an actual of profit that that we could have made right so the feds will know. We'll just ask the he'll he'll he'll be the arbiter backup catcher catcher so at some point to stay in he could've stayed. I'm not arguing. I'm not arguing other than we'll ask. What the official ruling in something like that is Will Smith at that point because I think we've made up that? I don't think that's an actual bet that we fizzle no hell no. I haven't talked to him. He's coming up at five thirty WASCO all right so the thing that greg yesterday we were arguing about who should hire for an athletic. Yes and Greg said well. I know one thing. UCLA needs to get rid of Dan Guerrero. Yes and I said well. He's not gonNA retire unless he gets football. Situation figured out and Greg said I don't care what's going on with football. What's going while he's been here too long he needs to go? I said he'll never walk away. When football is in this big of a mess sure enough this morning at like ten o'clock I get an email alert from Ucla? Dan Guerrero announced his retirement June twenty twenty join you chase off Dan Guerrero Happy Mason used to pride himself and being a coach killer killer. This is your first kill your I'm. I'm an ad killer. I love it. No I don't believe in killing. I don't want anybody to Lizard job matter of kill. It's just a matter a Chilean fired. He is leave. He's he's retiring is. He Greg Out. Thank you that's retiring or is he getting fired. He's retiring in June of two thousand twenty but is that retiring or getting fired Greg technically kill fellow did let the door hit you on the hell well. I just wondered how the Guy kept his job. So long number one they had la tell me about football. Tell me about basketball obviously judged him on more than the two major sports because he has more national championship so you say he'll be remembered. You said he wouldn't walk away unless they had football figuring that you would. You didn't think he'd walk away but I wonder if they gave him the choice if they they said look you've got a nineteen year run. That's the second longest run of AB at a power five school. I don't know who the number one guy is but and now what are we interesting is as I've said this before Mark Jackson at Villanova is a candidate for the USC job rob matter of fact the more people that you talk to carol full seems to be leaning going that direction rather than going towards that used to be in the program ramp because she doesn't want anything to do with Urban Meyer and the guy at Washington state's tied Urban Meyer a gene Smith right there are lots of guys that aren't tied to urban Meyer that also it didn't use to be at USC. It seems like careful is the kind of person who wants to turn the page on everything that used to be at UNC well now. I would be against Mark Jackson and coming back. I was told today by somebody I really trust at. Ucla the Dan Gross replacement they've already got. They've already picked them out. It's a guy named Terry Toomey who I I went to. Ucla with right he was a nose tackle on the football team. African American currently the athletic director at Fresno State and they think that he is basically he's. He's been being groomed for this job for a few years now. They're gonNA give it to him yeah but they don't give it to to me. I think that it become Mark Jackson becomes a candidate for the UCLA see I'm I'm done with. USC going reaching back to the people that used to be in the athletic department during the Pete Carroll Day. I'm against all that makes Mark Jackson attractive is that he comes from worked with both Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick he came from the Patriot tree and then he came to USC and was an assistant book so he was part of the Pete Carroll era. He's part of the Lane kiffin areas part of the Steve Sarkisian air in fact. Some people think that he was one of the people that pushed for Sarkisian to take that job right so but you know what I'm arguing is at maybe he's a candidate for the UCLA job not if you don't want him USC fine the guy from Fresno state that you just talked about if that's not a done deal and my friend at Ucla who by the way worser now says. I think it's a done deal if it's not I think Jacksonville candidate for Ucla because he's he's killed at at Villanova and he's I never NCAA committee but most of all what you need. UCLA is somebody who can fix football right. You've just married yourself to Mick Cronin in basketball. There's not a lot you can do there right away. You need somebody who can fix football. So you think Villanova going to fix football. I think somebody who worked for bill check and Pete Carroll and his background is as a football coach would fix football. Does Villanova have football team. No no they do not right which is almost there are eight ten did a football guy with with football background went into Villanova school with no football and just started winning titles winning titles in basketball right and in volleyball and in a bunch each other stuff and so I if he doesn't want to go back to where you go back and take somebody that's been in their building which I completely get that I hope. Ucla Look Jackson because I think the number one thing you need to do is fix football. I mean I don't I don't know who the Mark Jackson is. I don't know who the ad of of any school is besides UCLA USC so I don't know who the right guys Fresno State. I can see Fresno State has a good football program. They're they're usually in the top twenty five well it makes sense to me went to Ucla football there s knows knows enough matters as much but I know that Fresno state eight is a good is usually a good football team. That's all I care about you. Already have the coach and Mick Cronin like you're saying and see. USC NEEDS A football team an ad from okay. Let me just put let me let me just say this because I'm getting tweets about it and I just got a text about it. Dan Guerrero in a statement today said to who significant changes in my life over the last eighteen months of led me to this decision after much consideration and discussion with my family and the chancellor I though it has not been widely known but successfully battled the toughest opponent I've ever had to face cancer the world class medical team at Ucla however helped me beat this disease and my prognosis for the future is excellent so he has had a cancer battle good for head that he is survived and obviously one of the reasons why he's he's moving on on and nineteen years as an athletic director is an extraordinary run your hired to be fired in those yes yes or you're hired to be promoted and go somewhere else right. He was the ethnic director at UC IRVINE FORMER UCLA baseball player and he's basically run that thing for twenty years so he got. I mean you talk about getting the most out of that run right but but I think we keep an eye on that name Terry to me and he doesn't get it then then. I think you bring somebody in who can fix football. Keep an eye on chip Kelly for season three to season three reach chip Kelly well to me was a football player. They hire him. You may have his Guy Yup. He may never know all right coming up. Doc Rivers is talking working and it's very interesting what he's saying and he also in my opinion doc got a very raw deal last weekend then I'll explain coming up mason and Ireland. ESPN LA hey saw happening MASON IRELAND ESPN La. I believe we've got at the MOM ready for today. Did you rise to the challenge. You will find out okay. We have a word we don't think he will. He can work into the mind of Mason Jason Feature in the Ram Games in the word we gave him. This week was scientology a word. He makes very queasy. He's afraid teen batted batted hate talking about so we'll see if you got it in. We'll play that for you later all right so Arosh Markazi had this really interesting article today about Doc rivers yes and he basically basically went behind the scenes of what happened in the day or two leading up to win they were able to get quite Leonard and Paul George and it has several interesting takeaways among them that as soon as the day before maybe even the day of yes the clippers didn't think they were getting him. They thought he was going to either the Lakers or the house and the deal matter of fact right down to the wire on the D. The on the day of the deal at noon Lawrence Frank who dot credits with doing most of the work. He says that he's been given some credit and Steve bombers been given some credit doc says Lawrence Frank did all the work said that frank put the deal be resuscitate it from death on that Friday afternoon they announced on Friday eighty night and they brought Friday night or Saturday night. I think it was a Friday night. Where four were the news broke that that the next day the next day was the first day you could sign people right the Saturday right right so they like Friday night at eleven? When you woke up Saturday morning whoa jams and everybody had it but it happened late Friday night right and one of the reasons doc said it did was they brought in for a meeting and Co.? I said to dock. I'd love to play for you and he looked not bomber and he says I love all this stuff. You're doing but your team's not good enough. I can't come here if this is your roster and they presented him with a list list of players they said if we get any of these guys would you then commit to us and then one name on the list was Paul George Yup so then they start working Oklahoma City and Oklahoma City got six draft picks for Paul George including three three picks swops. Yes they basically took their entire draft in the next five to seven years and one of the things that was holding it up with Steve Balmer didn't WANNA give up six picks and doc said two things to him that made him change his mind. He said number one. If Kawhi goes to the Lakers we should move the team to Seattle he goes because if quiet goes to the Lakers over turn out the lights she goes. They'll have a stranglehold on the mark up and they'll have a stranglehold on the NBA will be complete. I don't yeah I don't think they would have not just because yeah. What do you told a rash ice? I was kidding when I said it kinda minute yeah that would that if we let him go the Lakers but it would have been turned out the lights for them and then the second thing bomber said well. I've I've never heard of any player giving up six picks picks for any player that's not like will or Kareem or Lebron Yeah and DOC said you can't look at it that way he said you're giving up six picks for Paul George and Kawhi think of his three and three sure because you're not getting by without Paul George and bomber then then when he looked at it that way said okay. I'll do it but here's the thing where I think doc got host. He mentioned that last weekend in Malibu his son Seth who plays from the Mavericks Mary Doc's daughter Kelly and duck said he paid for the entire wedding and he made a comment like I'm the only dad add of an NBA player in history. That's been given the bill for wedding my kids you know any two in the NBA right you know he has one in the NBA Austin. Kelly's marrying seth who has his brother Stephan sure seth has more money than DOC DUDS DOC PAN for that wedding like I paid for my okay. Wait a minute walk through this again so doc's son Doc's daughter daughter Kellie Kellie married Seth Curry last weekend and right okay so traditionally. The father of the bride pays for the wedding that are that's the way things. Normally we go unless you know that's an old kind of grandfather dean but isn't that kind of the way I mean I've never married. Isn't that the way things go doesn't the bride stat always pay no if he can yeah but like Lisa's dad had no money so I paid for the whole thing Gee Lisa's dad wasn't gonNA give us any money money for the wedding you didn't have any but isn't that the tradition if the bride's dad can pay the bride's dad pace but I actually think that they shouldn't have made docked pay the the guy's an NBA player he can pay his own wedding is you're saying the kid should have paid dock. No Seth should've pace. That's should've paid for his own on wedding yeah. That's tradition is reserved because you figure he's giving away his daughter and you figure that the the the young couple needs needs all the money they have to like build a life to get a house and you know to go on a honeymoon and all that stuff why dot get stuck with the bill seth seth curry is worth like thirty million. I can probably handle it yeah. I I agree duck. I think he got. I think he got host. I don't think he should add to pay for the wedding so you didn't pay safe. You paid for your wedding all of it Yup. How big was it a hundred and fifty people how many how many people you were at the docks kids running that same the same yeah? That's a hundred and fifty the number. It's a little bit. I was just at a wedding. I'd say they're probably one hundred fifty there but I know for a fact that the bride's Dad Dad did pay for it because he stood right by the bar with his arms crossed and like looked at everybody coming up to the bar. act really satisfied with himself like yeah. I paid for that yeah well. I paid for that Laker. He deserves it yeah especially it was it open bar open borrow yeah yes served. One of my friends got married once to a girl and she was a religion wants to grow data other marriages. Yes okay and he I'm trying to remember what you she wasn't Mormon Yeah but she was like seventh day. Adventist advantage sure some other religion where they don't drink so the data the father of the bride paid for the wedding but did not pay for an open bar 'cause none of his friends drink so my buddy's dad walked in and through a credit card of arts it's open now yeah so it got to open one way or another either Kevin Demo. CEO The rams coming up in ten minutes Mason and Ireland Espn La Happening People Mason Ireland Ireland Espn alive by the way Kevin Dem off CEO coo of the rams four and then four thirty. We're giving away rams buccaneers tickets. I've come up with a stupid game for that. One today interesting story out of out of New York a domestic violence silence charge actually not I shouldn't say that charge reported incident involving Yankee Starter Domingo her mind he has been placed on administrative leave. under the joint Major League Baseball Players Association domestic violence policy following an incident that the League learned about Tuesday morning running despite the lack of a police report deal detailing the incident the League and union agreed that the allegations against Herman warranted placing him on a seven day they leave a amid an investigation he's twenty seven. He has been the Yankees most dominant star who's eighteen and four for them with a four Oro three are and one hundred and fifty three strikeouts there conflicting reports now about exactly how this went down Bob Klapisch Klapisch from the New York Times says I'm told the incident involving Domingo Herman and his girlfriend occurred late Monday night Tuesday morning in a public setting he he allegedly slapped her during an argument according to a major league baseball source the incident was witnessed by an official an official from the commissioner's office office odds meanwhile Lindsay Adler from the athletic tweets this Major League Baseball's investigation into Domingo reminds centers on an incident that sources told the athletic took place at his residence late Monday early Tuesday. This incident was not witnessed by an official of of Major League baseball the sources said so up in the air exactly whose story or who sources right and do apply this in a practical baseball. All census guys pretty good pitcher right. He is their leading starting pitcher eighteen wins so that that would be advantage astros and I don't know how many times that these guys I need to be caught and made examples out of before they realize that everybody's got a phone in their pocket and if you do this you're out for for a while. Yeah I mean it almost seems like they're they. Just don't get it now. They clearly don't get it and I think this is a problem in broader society I still I think that issue that incidents of domestic violence are under reported a lot of times. They don't get reported at all. there are women who suffer in silence situations like this and again. We don't have any details of this particular case or this incident how it was reported. We don't really know there's there's no police report but somehow it happened at his residence it sounds like and and it has been reported in some way in an investigation to major league baseball but this would be a critical critical loss for the Yankees in fact he is suspended for some period of time in the playoffs and the Yankees and Astros are battling for overall best record. Yeah Astros are up a game now and it looks like the twins are GonNa win the division yeah yes so if the astronauts the Yankees would play the twins in the first round and that's a team that could sneak up and beat him good good good and then the wildcard is it could be Tampa's in it Oakland's in it the WHO's likely to get the American league wild-card well Tampa is is right there for the wild card right now. I'm just pulled so yes so is Oakland. CLEVELAND IS IT'S GONNA finish right band Minnesota for the division but they're in it yeah oaklands up to now for the Wildcard Tampa is to back and then the Indians a half game back of that so it'll be one of those three teams ah for the wild card in the American League which means that the Astros would draw the winner of the wildcard game in the Yankees will most likely get the Minnesota twins percents so yeah but that's at something to follow and I I do think the the thing with the Yankees that's most interesting is they are definitely going to approach this as a pitching staff they only need to get four innings out of a starter. They're not gonNA have a dominant starting pitcher. They are going to run with what is the best bullpen in base and they're getting dylan pretentious back right no in fact dances came back over the weekend and through eight pitches on a second strikeout jumped on the mound to celebrate and partially tore his Achilles no way delicate dance is is done. Only mackey is gone. Does anybody have a good bullpen. He wrote hosts. He Rehab for four and a half months through eight. Pitches is and then partially torn Achilles and the angels beat the Yankees last night because at a motive Vino threw a pitch way over the head of the of the batter so he's being a little wild mild too. That's another guy that's being an issue for the Yankees bullpen and that's their strength. I was GONNA say today still if with these with Matanzas going down today stole the best bullpen going to the postseason yes because they were doing it without potential right now your long they've been doing it without pretentious and without much of a of a starting rotation but still well. I think that's the best bullpen in Major League baseball at least go into the postseason this year but it'll be it'll be fascinating to follow the American league because I still think that what you get down to it it is going to be Yankees and Astros no batons and maybe no domingo her mind depending on the outcome dot com of Major League Baseball's investigation. He won't pitch again during the regular season because the investigation is ongoing deputy. It is really really we we say every year. It's a crapshoot who's going to win it but it really is sheer Israeli shaping up that way the dodgers have major closer issues. The braves seem seemed to be like young and young and dumb is a good thing yeah in fact Ronald Kunia hit his fortieth home run last year only last night last night only only third player in Major League Baseball History under the age of twenty one to hit forty home runs in the season. He is really

Kenley Jansen football UCLA Greg Mason Joe Kelley Kenley Jansen Lakers ESPN Joe Kelly Seattle USC NFL Yankees Dan Guerrero Mary Doc dodgers Fresno State Will Smith Major League Baseball League
Ep. 334: Exposure Bucks Dont Buy Toilet Paper - and more

PetaPixel Photography Podcast

47:28 min | 10 months ago

Ep. 334: Exposure Bucks Dont Buy Toilet Paper - and more

"Hello. My friends. This is photographer Marco heel-pass from mcallen Texas, and you are listening to the data pixel photography podcast with the legendary Sharkey James get ready for another adventure. This episode is brought to you by our good friends at Fuji Film Fresh Books Ben and say conic further details and discount codes later in the show. Welcome to the Pixel Photography podcast episode three, thirty, four exposure bucks don't buy toilet paper. And this episode I went to Wpi and got sick with something fujifilm's x t two hundred is sweet. CPAS. Figures are not Nikon delayed its new seventy, two hundred to eight. I have a new poll for you. My Youtube show just launched. It's the end of an era for an industry MAG and exposure box don't buy toilet paper all that and more in episode three, thirty, four of the pet pixel photography podcast. Thank you so much marco for opening the show. I greatly appreciated brother numbers aren't everything of course but if you're among the more than ninety thousand plus people who follow him a gallon based portrait photographer Marco Hill, pass. You know what all of us know who follow him and that is no matter how hot or how bright the South Texas son is it is just no match for Marco's. Lighting skills not even close when you combine knowledge, which is the most important piece of the equation here remember along with the right gear and incredible editing skills. You get gorgeous toned images that pop and once you see one of them, you're GonNa want to explore his whole darn feed, and since we're mostly all in quarantine these days, we've got time to do that. So head on over to his instagram account. Which is Marco Underscore Hill poss- that's M. A. R. C. Underscore J. I L. P. A. S. and be prepared to be inspired to get out there and make some amazing photos you know when we can all actually venture out and do that again and I'd like to thank you all for joining us here in episode three, thirty, four of the Pixel Photography podcast we appreciate you all so much and thank you. All for subscribing rating interviewing us in I tunes or wherever else he listened to us and yes that includes spotify Pandora iheartradio pretty much everywhere these days and as always we appreciate it and that's subscribe button. Do it now please don't miss a single episode as well as telling all your friends on social media elsewhere and helping to get the word out about the show Oh and if you're all stocked up on Toilet paper, which apparently we need a whole lot of these days. No, we don't. If you like to treat yourself and get some awesome gear, don't forget to help support our sponsors Lens Shark Dot com slash deals, and you're going to see the awesome mostly twenty percents off offer coats, save some money, get some gear, get out and shoot and make some positivity happen. Okay. With that I'm your Sharkey James Let's it. Now, before getting get the show and this is something, I'll remind you about at the end of the show but I appreciate it. If you gave me a little bit of feedback, you know since I got back from WPP Los Vegas with or without covid nineteen we're talk a little bit more about that. Later I got to thinking about how many of us are shooting video is is again in addition to or instead of photography there's nothing no log into or sign up for it's completely anonymous since. You're not providing your name or even an email addy and lead vigneault just one thing in one simple question. What do you shoot is it photography videography or both, and you can find that over at bitterly dot com slash Sharkey, poll S., H. A. R. K. Y. P., O. L. L. There's no e Sharqi anyhow. It'll help me decide just how much video related stuff I should cover here on the show to change with the time. So go ahead and take that poll. Please I greatly appreciate it next. One thing that I really appreciate as someone who has some pretty nonstandard ideas. Let's call it also known as crazy ideas is creative thinking and it's great. It's something that truly benefits both parties. Right. But what really gets under my skin is when people use their creative thinking and this barely qualifies for that term because it's really not an original idea they use that to get something that's great for. Them but not for the other party like a bride and groom using the exposure thing to get shoot their wedding for free that that annoying thing that probably will never go away read at recently blew up with a story about a Chicago couple seeking a photographer shoot a ten hour long wedding not for money. But for the promotional exposure, they get from being seen by three hundred wedding guests honor. and Seventeen of which were unmarried and between the ages of twenty, four and thirty five, what's different about this is how darned specific it was. Usually, you don't hear numbers like that. When someone proposes this, they really went all out like they did some googling and determine what age group was most likely to get married and they went through the trouble presumably of counting them all and got one hundred. and Seventeen I that specific as I like hundred or one, hundred, plus hundred and seventeen it doesn't get more specific than that actually. So the email particular photographer received from this said quote, we are asking your help to sponsor ten hours of continuous photography coverage. In exchange, we'll be showcasing your company to three thousand plus combined facebook followers three hundred total wedding guests hundred seventeen unmarried gas between the ages of. Twenty four to thirty five years old and seventy three parents with unmarried children between the ages of twenty, four and thirty five years old and quote. Now, if they didn't just completely pulled that out of their backsides, they put quite a bit of thought into this right and likewise thought that they got a pretty decent chance of getting a free photographer for their big day. It's not known if they. Try this with the florist caterer etcetera but we know historically that photographers are usually the only ones who are approached with this kind of offer a ridiculous exposure bucks offer and it rarely works out for the photographer. Really even if one couple books them actually pays rather than pulling the same nonsense. You've now shot to weddings for the price of one everyone's going to have a different number mind but. As. You're slaving away during that long ten hour days shooting spree wedding. How many weddings would you think you'd actually book from those hundred seventeen on married gas some of them might actually be couples. So the number of weddings you might shoot could actually be half of that and you can probably completely forget about those seventy-three parents who also have on married children because you're then counting on them to. Sometime at whatever point in the future just remember that Oh yeah. I saw this photographer shooting a wedding that I attended and let's see if I have his info. Of course, they're not gonNA have your Info. Now they could call that couple of course but look at all these steps they have to go through just to find a photographer and if they didn't talk to you, why would they recommend you? They haven't even seen your photos yet presumably. So how many of them are actually going to be a future client? You know we're talking about the kids of those seventy three people probably none maybe one maybe and I think that's a stretch right there. So let's just call zero and what are the chances that one of their kids just happens to be looking for a wedding photographer at that point I mean the sooner it happens after the wedding you shoot the better years go by and the chances of you getting the call are pretty darn slim. Also, what are the chances that they're going to want to go with somebody? That mom or dad saw it a wedding at some point they're going to go with whoever shot their friends weddings of course that's how it works. So let's just call the parents referral thing completely useless that's just not going to happen. Now I've never shot a wedding as a career but if I shot their wedding for free man, I would want to get I think at least weddings out of it otherwise it's really just not going to be worth it sign up for a deal like this with the number of unmarried gas like they said that are going to be there, and maybe at best you're going to have one wedding. Out of it and like I said, it's a buy one get one at that point you're shooting two for the price of one. That's pointless. Now, if you had the full contact info for all those hundred seventeen unmarried gassed and you actually market your services to them and reminded them that you shot their becky's wedding or whatever. Then maybe you might be the name in their head when Becky's friend Marci's boyfriend billy or whoever liked it so much that he wanted to put a ring on it. Yes that was ridiculous and yes. So shooting at ten our wedding for free and even if the couple has pure intent thinking this'll. BE A win win for everybody and you're GonNa make out like a bandit that's just not reality it's not it almost never works out. So maybe don't go for something like that. But if you do please for the love of everything that's good in this world make sure you have a contract that gives you the complete contact info for every single one of those unmarried guests and you get that before the wedding day without that you just hoping they remember to ask their friend who shot their wedding and I'd rather you be going for that business aggressively rather than just waiting for them to call you or email or whatever next. It's hard to believe, but taxis in is already upon us and for many years now we're talking refers and other small business owners have turned to this show's longest sponsor fresh books they've been with us for nearly four years. Now, for good reason, our audience knows that fresh books makes their lives easier. You WanNA shoot edit right the last time that. You have to do the business. Anything's the better I say fresh books users get paid two times faster on average thanks to not only it's easier is getting invoicing done faster by the system reminding clients it's time to pay that Anna friendly reminder late fees could apply tends to make you a priority. So let the florist that cakemaker wait you've got your. Own Bills to pay in twenty nineteen alone fresh books added forty three killer new features like getting paid by bank transfer getting paid upfront, and then tracking your hours against that an incredible new client hub where you can keep all things together improved invoicing and expense tracking, and so much more. I'm an actual paying customer afresh books and their streamline intuitive. Easy view system saves me crucial time and unnecessary frustration like I need more anxiety, right? No. I do not now to claim your thirty day free trial with no card needed head on over fresh books, dot com slash pet- Pixel, and our petty Pixel in the how did you hear about it section? Remember I actually invoice fresh books with themselves so Meta. Next. When I was at WPI spent some time with the Fuji Film Crew Because Hell they helped pay the bills around here I can't skip them, right? Yeah, and I gotTa tell you they are awesome. Just unbelievable people they love the system and they're so proud sponsor of the assignments here on the show. Now last time around, we did Episode Number Sixteen share your cloud and over on instagram my favorite was from User Timothy, b. m. e.. It's a sweet black and white shot taken at Charleston State Park and not only does it feature clouds of course but tree branches in the foreground and That shallow death afield would either blur away the clouds or the branches. He actually chose a narrow aperture on his fuji x one hundred F. and it's all basically in focus something that usually might not be advisable but was very much in order for a shot like this and once you see it, you'll see why just works and I love it. It's a great shot. Now for our next assignment, we're to do number seventeen. It's share the better angels of your nature and Hack I'm going to good mood. So let's make it also shows the better angles of your nature because why not we can do that here. So maybe shoot statues of angels somewhere figurines person in front of those. Wings, that everybody paints on walls these days, etcetera or angles just go nuts have fun and use the Hashtag my Fujifilm legacy. So we can actually find them, and while you're at it, just go ahead and tag all the images of yours that you like no matter what your shot them with and when you shot him I wanna see him just have fun and maybe stay six feet or more from the people you're photographing insulting settled down just do that. Please stay safe now I WANNA. Thank Fuji Film Again First Sponsoring are photos, assignments, those guys rock of course and I think I'm GonNa. Get some new Fuji Film gear here. Soon I gotta it's spring our get out and shoot. Next Now. I don't want to spoil what happens if you haven't seen it but at long last I've launched my show on Youtube called. Show, and you can find that by going to YouTube dot com slash len shark or just type in land shark or Sharkey show the Youtube Bat is just under six and a half minutes and I, think you're GonNa like it as much like no one in photography had done a podcast like the one you're listening to right meow no one's ever done youtube show quite like this either in photography at least when you see you're totally going to get it especially if you understand and appreciate my personality, that's why you're listening to the show and You're going to totally see where it's going. I, think you're really gonNA enjoyed. So please check that out like comment subscribe all that fun stuff lease and share it with those you think might enjoy it as well. Now in that episode, I mentioned something that I can tell you about right here without a all being a spoiler and that is a mono awards are back. As you know, I, love shooting with the actress film simulation on my t to and will on all future Fuji Film Cameras that I Own. Well, these awards are sponsored by our friends over at digital direct way down there in Australia way down their southern hemisphere people towards the bottom of the planet. It's pretty cool. Anyhow, they're the ones that actually got me into the FUJIFILM's system altogether with the x t to their sponsoring this new monochrome only awards which I hope will eventually be open worldwide. Hopefully, one can hope right now it's just for Australia New Zealand. So if you're down there in the Southern Hemisphere, go ahead, you can go to. Dot Com dot AU slash mono awards and check it out and cross your fingers. Everybody that in the future we'll be able to participate as well next. As you know the ongoing joke here on this show is that I'm an indoor cat and I rarely leave. Boise and that's mostly been due to my wife and daughters medical issues and heck mining's -iety in general right we're all completely stressed out these days especially with corona virus and that was not helpful. Let me tell you anyhow this stuff is kept me home and I finally hopped on a plane recently and went to my first. Photo, industry trade show it's crazy but in the nearly five and a half years now that I've done this show and with all the friends I've made along the way I've met very few of them until WPI it had really just been Ted. Forbes, Mark Morris and Levi Sam does leave I really count though I mean he lives here in Boise. So counting, Levi that's all of three people. In our industry three people and I know a bunch of them now in person and that's thanks to WPI like I said wedding and portrait photography international which has been going on for like thirty something years. It's crazy. Now while many people pony up their hard-earned cash to go to WPI IN LAS VEGAS or wherever they've held it along the way so they can learn new things all the. Classes presentations or just peruse the products and services that are available to them on the show floor I went with absolutely no plan none. I wind the whole darn thing and I'm really happy I did too. I'm not GonNa do that in the future but this year it called for it I didn't even know what was going to the show until about two weeks beforehand and with episode one. Of Sharkey, show set to be released on Youtube I. got very little sleep. So especially, the night before I flew out. So Day one of the trade show floor I missed all together. I slept right through the whole thing which actually worked out pretty well because I was scheduled to meet up with youtuber tailored Jackson and crew at their suite, which was beautiful with amazing view I gotta say. A really funny video they did. It's online I'll linked to it in the show notes. So you guys can see it. They did a really great job of it. So I'm happy. I. Was able to participate in that I had to leave that little Shindig early and head on over to help the photo focus crew, which Levi. Sam and a bunch of my other friends are part of they did a photo walk there on the Strip. And we had a lot of fun. So after that, we had dinner with them and leave is like, Hey, let's go to this little party I heard about it turned out to be one that I didn't WanNa miss but somehow forgot to put my calendar and it was the one from the pro edu guys they're launching their new APP so that killed a lot of birds with one stone right there because I got to meet all kinds. Of People I've known for years researchers extraordinaire Critique Nyack Rene Robin. Let's see John Grass, the Great Diana row blaze, and just so many others it was insane. So so much for going to bed a little earlier that night and hitting the show floor on day two that didn't happen I didn't get back to my hotel room until just before three. So yeah, they to again slept in almost fifty young people they can do with a few. Hours. Sleep me not so much any my beauty sleep. Let me tell you. So I tracked all the way over to the show floor which I wanna know how many miles away it was, but it was quite a walk. It took me a good twenty minutes to get there. But I ended up getting a little bit of the show floor that day we're talking the last ten minutes I told you I was winging it and got to. Hang out for the next hour and a half or so with my good friend, many years Sony Art is an amateur and the amazing human known as Miguel Culas. He's a great guy that right there made the trip. Worthwhile. So we've got to talk we ran into a bunch of other great people and it was hands down the number. One reason that I wanted to go to WPI I needed to get out of Boise I needed. A change of scenery and I needed to connect with my community something. We're not doing right now here a couple of weeks later or so as we're all hunkered down and in quarantine good times, right. So I'm happy I got the opportunity because it's going to be a good long while before there are any more industry trade shows and I finally got to meet all the people are most of the people I should say that I wanted. To meet and that was valuable to me feeling connected with your community. Your industry does more for you than you can possibly imagine I heard this over and over again from the attendees don't estimate the community factor when it comes to keeping yourself motivated and focus 'cause a lot of people feel alone right I lost count of how many people ask said they're still in business today because while they run their businesses alone they feel supported by. Others from around the country that they connect with online and a lot of it has to do with the once a year maybe twice year they go out to these events and get to talk to those people and see him face to face now on my last day there I got up early. So I could check out of my hotel catching early meeting with some of the sponsors of the show and hit the show floor fairly early. And despite that early. Start I got to see maybe half of the vendors there and why missed many of the people and companies that I would like to have seen ideally, and despite my planned non planning strategy, I feel like I got way more out of WPI than I imagined I mean it wasn't even close imagine if I actually had made some plans I'm confident in saying that if there's one industry show to attend especially if you're a wedding and portrait photographer WPI's definitely and that's mainly because it's in Las Vegas rooms are ridiculously cheap. Think mine was like thirty five bucks a night at the. Luxor it's crazy if photo plus actually happens later this year thing it's October twenty twenty I don't think it's going to happen personally because of the outbreak in such but if it does hotel rooms in New York be insane. So they guess would be the place to go I. Think if you're going to pick one year and that's W PPI and even if it is pretty safe to go to photo plus come October or whenever the heck it is I'm probably not gonNA wind last accompany or two or three sponsors that trump because it way too expensive between flights and hotel rooms WPI. That's just brainer so cheap I'm going to be going there each and every year I'm committing to that to catch up meet listeners of the show and just hit the show floor for at least two days or so you gotTa have at least a full two days or you're not going to see everything that last day. I think I had all of like maybe three to four hours or so on the show floor and Iran as Scott Shelby portrait. Power couple that's Lindsay Adler Chris Night. All amazing people by the way Diana row blaze I finally got to meet. Manny Ortiz along with the Amazing Jessica. Kobe See dixie Dixon Peter Hurley Jerry Guiltiness Tamra, lackey Laura Jade and just so many others and guess what every darn one of them couldn't be nicer. You know made me proud to be in such an amazing creative industry but by far, the best part of going to WPI was meeting the listeners. Actually. Were just walking by and recognize my voice and then saw baseball cap and put tuned to together a few people though recognize me from the podcast show artwork, which is odd because I'm clean shaven that. Superman and Clark, Kent when these guys glasses on, you can't tell you superman next. I'm a Fuji Film guys you know and again, well, before they even sponsor photo assignments and I love my X. T. Two, it's the level of camera that I, feel comfortable with and for me it's just a great balance of size and feature set. You know it's right there in the sweet spot for me and yes, you've talk about wanting to get an X. T. three forever. But what's right for me isn't necessarily right for you or somebody else you. Know I'm just as samples is a one for others something like the company's new x t two hundred, a body that they're saying is for content creators of all levels. That's their words could be for you and it might just be especially at the price point it comes in at a little over a year and a half since the excellent xt one hundred, we've got this great new body under the Hood is a twenty four point two Megapixel AP SEC sensor. Seize. Not, ex-, Trans they're both awesome. But this one seema's with better speed and video performance quite a bit better autofocus and ISO range of two, hundred, twelve, thousand, eight, hundred in the normal range and on down to one hundred up to expanded. Fifty one, thousand, two, hundred, it has very capable video features and something that bloggers will especially enjoy a fully articulating three point five inch touchscreen LCD. Now with the x t two hundred, you can shoot up to eight frames per second in burst mode, which is amazing four K thirty P video or ten eighty, also full hd at one hundred, twenty P and thinks that new processor is body will. Process data at three point, five times faster than the xt one hundred and the rolling shutter effect is also reduced on this camera and the company says that the autofocus performance is dramatically enhanced. That's their words due to on censor phase the tax rather than the hybrid system that's in the x t one hundred and things to that this new body gets face and I detection AF which if you've ever used it just amazed by for enthusiast photographers that is absolutely massive focus is something that you struggle with this body would be joy for you. That's the future right there. Eventually we're leaving after worry about focus ages does it for you for? Bloggers or those who just love taking photos themselves which is okay. It's that fully articulating touchscreen LCD that they're gonNA. Love. There's a special hd are video mode for shooting scenes with high contrast. So you not only just see what's being blasted by the sun. What's also in the shadows as well, and if all that wasn't sweet enough, there's a new digital gamble function that makes use of the in body gyro sensor to greatly assist with the electronic stabilization when shooting video and somehow Fujifilm's able to do all of this while shedding eighty grams of weight with the x t to coming in just three hundred seventy grams also known as just point. Eight, two pounds. That is pretty darn light. You know it's quite astounding when you think about all this body can do that would have cost you like to three times as much. Just a few years ago now heck it shoots four K. internally I remember when Sony's Bass bodies couldn't even do that and that wasn't even too long ago a handful of years ago we're talking we've come a long way in such a short period of time my friends. If you want to get your hands on a capable body specifically, FUJIFILM's new x t two hundred you can get them right now in silver dark silver champagne for just having hundred dollars, us. For one hundred dollars more in a kit with the EXC- Fifteen, forty, five, millimeter three, point five to five point six. Oh, I s powers Zoom Lens and for a Kit Lens that's a pretty darn nice. One to all a FUJIFILM's kit lenses are pretty darn great. Now, speaking in Iceland's is food, you also announced its Fuji Exc- Thirty five millimeter F two and thirty five millimeter terms that works out to be fifty, two millimeter F, two incomes and it just a hundred and thirty grams that just point two nine pounds it's practically floating well, okay not really it's light it has nine elements in six groups including. Almonds to produce sharp and crisp images with creamy book gay that's their words. Again NS stepping motor for quick and near-silent af again, their words. So have you shooting video using this land that is dazzling it'd be welcome. You don't want that and knowing motor noise horrible. Well then again, you also want to keep your audio away from your camera with a wireless packet CETERA. Now, the new food nine accede thirty, five millimeter to is also. Available same time right now as the t two hundred and it comes in at just two hundred dollars, which is definitely reasonable. I tell shooters all the time when they asked me what they should get that if they don't see the need for full frame now or ever and the hefty price tag that goes along with it, not just the body but all the lenses you have to get an going Fuji with they're all APS crop system. Is, all he needs to have a look at it's designed from the start for crop. You've got interoperability across the entire line and the cost savings that are associated with that with Sony you can get crop bodies, but you're probably GONNA buy their full frame lenses because that's what they mostly have and you're just wasting money at that point if you eventually go full frame then great. But why did you buy these fancy lenses and then? Get a crop sensor camera just doesn't make a whole lot of sense and again, no, one can tell the difference when they're looking at a photo on their screen on the computer or on their phone, they just can't. So save yourself the money. I think not to mention if you're GONNA shoot Canon or Nikon murless, it's going to take them years to have all the lenses that you want in crop or even in full frame anything there. Behind. It just doesn't make sense to me when people do that. If you know all your ever need is crop, you don't really need full frame just go food you film that's the truth and I'd be saying that and did say that before they even sponsor the show not just that we see photographers who step up to full frame from crop or. Micro four thirds, etc, and suddenly they need all new lenses says they're having a different because they've got shallower Boca less step the field and it gets absolutely frustrating to them. So research before you buy and that's I got to say Oh and next. Do you need a light meter? No. Of course you don't I'm just being honest. I'm talking about the kind that's not in your camera. You know the kind that you hold in your hand. Sure. You can do without it and most people do but that said, there is some tangible real benefits of using line and those who own them know all about it, and it's one of the reasons why we sell a re. Leslie high number of them here on this show for one of our sponsors that we love so much say conic the undisputed leader and hand held light meters and it certainly doesn't hurt that we give our audience twenty percent at Sakonnet Dot Com without offer Code Peta Pixel Twenty I mean don't pay full price if you don't have to write and that's S. E. K. O N I C dot. com where you can use that code now, the light meter that's in your camera is well in your camera does a decent job but it's reading reflected light. That's all it can do a hand held light meter like Sakonnet L. for seventy eight for instance is also an incident light meter. Let's say you place. It by your subject Donna white wedding dress, which should be white not gray you meter and boom it's going to be white. That's simple. It's that or you can mess with your settings all day trying to chase down the proper exposure and hunt down that white that you need not that gray I could probably do an entire episode at least about all. The great things that you can use a hand held light meter for but head on over CONNICK DOT com you're gonNA see a plethora of great info on their on all their benefits, and you know what? There's a meter for every budget to and that twenty percent off code a Pixel twenty makes it even better especially when we're stocking up these days next. One of the best selling tripods ever is Ben Rose Mach three, and you've heard me talk about before it is an amazing tripod. You see them everywhere but have you also seen their slimline, they're smaller they're lighter and like the mach three line, he just can't go wrong with them. They're beautiful of course like all Ben, road tripods and incredibly strong. The slim model as the name suggest is well slim something that I used to be but that was a long time ago. These tripods are also to adjust which also no longer we're talking just a quick half turn of the. Aluminum twist locks to lock or unlock. That's it no more than that. The blue analyzed Arcus swiss-style quick release played as a convenient d ring with a quarter twenty cameras screw lightweight magnesium shoulder features three leg positions, which can each be positioned individually for even trained in such and their removable single action ball head features in oversize ratchet style lock Knob for Easy Operation Oh, and there's also a scale for easy panoramas. You don't want to do difficult ones that doesn't sound like fun. The very best part is that these great dry pods are also very inexpensive with. That Pedal Pixel. Twenty. Code at Ben Row USA DOT COM. You can get yourself a sweet tripod for under a hundred bucks and if you take care of it, it'll take care of you for a long long long time. It's a banner Oh after all incredible quality incredible warranty and are also an incredible sponsor, and as always we appreciate your support of those who support this show check out the slimline and while you're there go ahead and look at those mock threes as well. You'RE GONNA. Fall in love with then they're absolutely amazing you're seeing them everywhere next. CPA that's the cameron imaging products. Association has released Sales Data from the end of Twenty nineteen and yes as predicted, it ended a decade that was quite roth for the camera industry and yet there's still some positivity in their course though with covid nineteen, you just never know anymore now in overall sales of ship CAM units, and I'll see interchangeable lens cameras as well as fixed lens camera units. They all dropped off in two thousand nineteen with December alone being twenty percent lower than December of twenty eighteen. Yeah not good. That's the wrong direction right there, and while the market continues to shrink for. Reasons and certainly recently that being covid nineteen, the main one is smartphone users feeling like their iphone or what have you is good enough and yes, I'm doing air quotes here but it's not all bad news when you think about it as long as people are doing photography, it really doesn't matter what they use and I think eventually they'll stop up to a real cameron. We're doing air quotes here again, a real fancy camera with interchangeable lenses because your camera phone just can't do it all yet it. Might eventually, we'll see. So while the overall camera market is shrinking, these companies are making more from their cameras that are the mid range to high end, and mostly those are mere list cameras. Remember Mierlo sales are up and are going to continue that upward trend versus DSR sales which are going to be down especially these days and while people are buying murless cameras, the companies aren't seeing an overall increase in sales they're just buying murless versus Diaz Lar- not a murless in addition to a DSL are. Why Canon Nikon had absolutely no choice. But to make serious murless bodies, it was that or a slow death as they became irrelevant look what happened in Nikon for instance, third place not a good place for them to be but they got their clocks cleaned pretty darn good by Sony Fuji, film, and the others, and they finally decided to compete for their lives finally, and we'll see if that's actually going to be enough for them. Nikon for instance was having a bad enough time and then here comes covid nineteen corona virus out of the blue something you just could not. Predict. If you were in the camera business and it could mean the end of the company, we're really going to see a lot of companies go out of business that sucks. That is really sad to say but these are the times we live in. Now you wake up one day and boom things are all different. Now shipments of murless cameras to the Americas were up by ten percent over twenty eighteen and the value though shipments was up not just here in the Americas but even in parts of the world where the total number of shipments were actually down so they sold. Last units, but they didn't lose as much on those units basically. So simple business one one, these companies will be increasingly looking for ways to make more from each camera that they sell not just selling more cameras and that could take the form of using cheaper materials. When possible while still maintaining acceptable level of quality, it could also be getting better pricing from suppliers charging more for their cameras, any or all of that or maybe none of that after all, they can't keep losing money. You know something has to change a business can't survive if they keep taking losses and. Nothing changes. So they're going to be putting their best and brightest on this and helping to turn things around especially in a world economy, which now seems to be heading for a pretty darn serious recession Canon and Nikon are pumping massive resources in a lous and not Diaz Lars and that's what's on the rise here another reason why I'd be a little skittish about getting Diaz Lars Right now, and certainly if I was just starting out, you gotta go with the new technology where the companies are putting all their money and a lot of their effort into that just makes sense. Next One thing that you don't want a company is manufacturing issues especially when you're a company like Nike Nikon, which is fighting for all the marbles right now you know it's got to earn back that number do spot it does not wanNA be number three. It never aspired to be number three and nor should you ever you play for number one? You don't play for second place. Let alone third I mean on the full frame merely side Sony's killing it right like not even close second place come on Fuji Film on the Crop Side of things owns that market just absolutely owns it, and of course, the behemoth that his cannon and everything they're talking about doing, and now with recent shipping delays of the new seventy, two, hundred to eight for it's merely Z.. System that is not good. Now, we're on exactly what the issue was was being held pretty darn close their corporate vast but something happened that clearly caused Nikon slam the brakes and sort things out before it was too late too late being subpar lenses in the hands of customers followed by yet another service advisory or worse an actual recall, a ladder being yet another unwanted nail in. Their coffin in a statement about this matter to the pet epics, mothership Nikon. Says, quote we apologize for the delay of the night corsie seventy, two, hundred, millimeter f two point eight VR Aslan's we are currently making final adjustments as part of our production process. In order to ensure the highest quality product, we will provide availability as soon as possible and quote about as vague as vague. But you know when you got twenty, six, hundred Lens, you better get it right before you ship it out the door whatever it was the company's open to have it all fixed ship the lens out to what will be happy customers and it'll be forgotten like fight club. Whoops next. If you've been listening to this show for even a little while you know that my favorite photography magazine is range finder I generally don't like to subscribe to actual magazines that you can hold in your hands old school style because who needs a bunch of magazines piling up right it just seems. So old timey now anyhow, you're rarely going to read them again and they take up space and eventually you just finally given and in the blue can go for recycling but the one and only exception I've made for the last five or more years or so now. Is Range Finder. There's something about seeing those photos in print I just really enjoy there's nothing like it. It's not like being on your screen having a right there in your hands and seeing them and flipping the pages is an enjoyable experience, but it's one that's becoming more and more rare by the day I've got each and every printed issue of range finder going back to the beginning of my subscription. But now it's the end of an era and there's going to be zero print magazines delivered to me from range finder. It's going all digital as many others. Have I'm a little bummed out by that but you know what I understand the magazine business is not easy and this particular mag cost nothing all you had to do is give them your email address and Info, and that was it. So they largely had to rely on ad sales, which are now going to be all digital Emerald Expositions, a company that operates some fifty five trade shows, which is not the best business to be in these days right with the corona virus going, and that includes photo plus Expos walls WPP and a bunch of others announced that. Range. Finder will from now on the digital, only senior VP for Conference Development Johanna Morris Says Range Finder in PPI will be more tightly linked saying quote by evolving range finder in WPI together, we will build a streamlined centralized information hub that integrates the online and live event experience while creating new opportunities for the broader community to connect end quote. Now, in addition that news, the company also announced that photo district. News. AKA KPN which began way back in nineteen eighty will be no more poof gone. It's been forever but PD was a staple for me back in the Late eighties and early nineties. It was a great way to keep up with the industry. You can learn a ton from it especially, if you had a studio and did commercial work I don't remember whose La Studio was. It might be somebody I know now but I can't remember who it was. They had this studio features in there that was just absolutely amazing. It was the most unbelievable studio space I had ever seen it left such an impression on me that I remember at some three decades later, just not the photographer. So maybe the studio space was more. Impressive I. Don't know like I said earlier. I'm really happy decided to go the WPP trade show because who knew at the time this was corona virus was just starting to roll out, but it hadn't quite made it to America big yet who knew that that might be the last trade show we go to for a year maybe two who knows. So I'm happy I went now before I left for WPP Iran pull my instagram account, which is at lend shark asking if I personally should go to WPI or not considering corona virus and out of the hundreds of. People responded thirty eight percent said No. Now I think a bunch of the people who answered. No were just joking because I saw them at W. P. P. I don't think I did not see you people I know how you answer it on the poll. I bet if I took a poll today though darn near one hundred percent would say no don't go and they would be serious about it to our lives are all changing good or bad or whatever we're losing magazines, and this was pre corona virus even people made these decisions and now who knows what? Companies are going to go out of business. If you're at ninety kind, you got to be a little bit worried because it was tough enough as it was before global pandemic, you can only carry on right like I keep seeing people say online our grandfathers and some grandmothers ended up going off to war and dying, and we're being asked to stay home on our couches do work, and as bad as the krona viruses world. War Two was no picnic at all. So you gotTa have perspective things are changing just have to carry on and make the best of it. Now, before we close out the show WANNA thank everybody for their patients especially in recent minds, things have been crazy and also I would greatly appreciate it. If you took that simple one question Paul and that's at Bentley. Dot Com Slash Sharkey Paul B. I. T. L. Y. dot com slash Sharkey poll. Let me know if you shoot photo video are both know and also if you follow me on social media, you know I was recently named a brand ambassador for product that I enjoy for years now and then we talked about it on the other show I. DO Brian Matija I'm talking about wall control. So if you're familiar with PEG board, it's like that only metal and way better so. I've got entire setup with my tools, of course, which I've had for years, and now I've got one with just my photography gear, and if you check out my youtube show youtube dot com slash len shark I'm talking about show you're going to see it behind me and coming up in a future episode I'm going to do an entire studio tour of what I'm calling the CUCO cave because there's tons of Gupo stuff in there and you'll see all that fun stuff. But Anyhow, wall control dot com you hit the brand ambassador section you're going see my ugly mug there and my setup, and if you want to buy any of that stuff sharkey fifteen, get fifteen percent off and I'd like. To thank you all for listening episode three, thirty, four of the Pixel Photography podcast don't forget to check us out at Pettit Pixel. Dot Com slash podcast for the show notes and see what else we have for you. If you head on over there, you can leave us a voicemail question that we can answer here on the show or if you don't feel comfortable leaving a voicemail, feel free to email me at lend shark at gmail.com and if you like me personally and I hope you do hit me up on twitter instagram or facebook where I'm Len Shark. That's L. E. N. S. S. H. A. R. K. again don't forget the to us in the middle there I don't know len. Shark and I'm not responsible for what that guy says, and if you really want to support this show, if you're looking to buy new gear and you want to save money definitely had on over a lend shark dot com slash deals for all the curves offer codes from our great sponsors. It is the single best way to help support this show and for the vast majority of our sponsors that Pat Pixel Twenty codes going to save twenty percent and these days in the era of covert nineteen corona virus. Every dollar you save is definitely helpful but hey, treat yourself. If you can afford it helps support this show and insurance longevity. All right with that I'll see you all episode three, thirty five. Well into fifth fifty the second outside it's time to shoot. Please subscribe to the Pixel Photography podcast. My Daddy is the host.

fujifilm Fuji Nikon Youtube Sony Sharkey James Levi Sam instagram Boise Texas Lens Shark Dot facebook Americas Sakonnet L. spotify Los Vegas LAS VEGAS Marco Hill Marco Underscore Hill
James Andrew Miller on the increasing number of ESPN departures

Sports Media with Richard Deitsch

50:13 min | Last month

James Andrew Miller on the increasing number of ESPN departures

"You finally decided to learn how to ice skate. So you ordered the essentials. Every aspiring ice skater needs a nice pair of blades. Shiny new helmet and a good set of kneepads. And you use your bank of america. Cash rewards credit card choosing to earn three percent cashback on online shopping which you put those rewards towards an essential piece of posts gating recovery a heating pad visit merrick dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright twenty twenty bank of america corporation. Richard i welcome to the sports media. Podcast my producer. Patrick antonetti shaun cherry our guest. This week is a familiar one. James andrew miller the bestselling author of books on saturday live ca. And of course. And the reason he is here for this particular podcast. Espn james miller. Also jim miller should say also host the origins podcast which is Party cadence thirteen family of podcast Go into his archives. Check those out almost famous and sex in the city. Some pretty remarkable stuff jamila kind enough early in the morning for him in california to join me today on sports media. Podcast jim and you don't drink coffee but are your wake. How are you thank you for having me right. So here's where we want to start with. man it is been as you know sort of just an endless new cycle when it comes to espn but last week Very big news that sort of had been four shouted for a long time. And that was dan lebatard and espn came to me. Both sides say publicly mutual agreement. That dan le batard will be leaving the company and the network on january fourth. His radio show very popular. Radio show will end highly questionable which is a laboratory television show that he did for many years with his father. Bomani jones and others will continue with some form of espn people on that show. So this is where. I want to start with jim I guess a lot of questions about libertad over the last Six months from i would imagine fans of his show asking like what what is he doing. Like why do they why are they seemingly sort of making things more difficult for him and my answer was always the same like it. It makes no business sense to me. I understand that the show is always a bit of an iconoclast and libertad wanted to speak about things that went beyond sports freedom of speech in And reysen and other important topics particularly when they navigated with sports but it was such It was such that his show was was they would trump. Here's what here's what i'll get to. Jim and i realize i could have smoother opening. Espn would trumpet. his show. Many times is the most downloaded podcast that they had and their most successful podcast and how it was kind of a digital juggernaut and then months later they they break this relationship they ended and of course one of the key moments of ending. It was Letting go of one lebatardshow producers without at least laboratories were telling him and libertad calling it. Essentially you know one of the worst things that he had ever dealt with professionally so to sort of summarize it jim they had something that was very popular. Clear league they trumpeted. Pr wise the popularity and then they seemingly tried to screw the show. So you're the business expert here. What am i missing. How did this breakdown. Well look. i mean. Dan has been one of the most prominent voices at espn and certainly the most prominent hispanic voice One of the most prominent hispanic voices in sports and he had a terrific rise. There and i think that what one of the things that we saw through the last couple of years was that there was this increasing tension Certainly magnified by when he felt that they were kids in cages during this immigration battle and he wasn't really allowed to talk about it and i think he made a mistake by calling. Jimmy petar a coward but you certainly could understand why he wanted to use his platform to talk about this stuff and therein lies the rub because this wasn't the first time that espn is had tension between these independent voices who they do celebrate and who because they have independent mindsets and because they are controversial they garner more hits and they garner more attention. And so all of a sudden you have these exotic flavors and at key moments. It felt like to these people that they wanted them to become vanilla and so there was a lot of tension. I think that one of the things that became clear though was particularly when they look this kid. that while. you're not a kid but this guy who was making basically forty thousand dollars a year who was laid off without them telling dan and you know in advance mean this was his mentor son and somebody that they knew to be close he was very close with. I mean i think that was a. Let's say that. I've heard from a couple of people i think. It was a provocative act. And i think they knew exactly what the repercussions of that would be. And thus the march toward a separation By the way. From what. I've heard on the on the deal I think that the settlement They they seemed Very anxious for the settlement. It wasn't there were times when you can look at how. Espn behaves and you can say well. They don't really want this or they're willing to play tough on this and my understanding from the settlement talks was that they were very anxious to get it wrapped up and Whether that suggests that they were overly generous. With dan i ca. I don't wanna go that far but Certainly not of this was a surprise so then back to your main question which is from a business point of view. How does this make sense. And i think that one of the things that espn has to deal with is what if they make a decision that they no longer wanna be in business. Some with somebody particularly somebody who has the kind of following that dan does then it becomes a really tricky process in order to disengage and i think they wanted to things one of the reasons why i lend some credence to the idea. That was a provocative act and not telling him about that guy being laid off was because then at least it it puts on dance court and he gets to make the first move and then they can say well. He's not happy and we understand and so we wish him luck. But if you look at some of the podcasts deals that have been done recently and particularly given the size of dan following. He's not gonna have any problem. Come january for creating a new chapter for himself. And i think that. Espn is just right now in the midst of evaluating basically everything except the nfl. I think that the i mean. I think that's kind of a. I know that might sound like too. Two biggest statement but that the business has been so disrupted and the dynamic with burbank and some of the exigencies involved in just the revenue stream and cord cutting and going from nearly a hundred million households to in the high seventies. Everything these are. These are major events. And so i think they're trying to do is they're trying to come up with a new formula and new ways of doing business that means laying off a lot of people also means. Maybe they're not going to be spending that kind of big money on on celebrities. I mean obviously. They signed stephen a smith. A huge deal But since then. I think that they been spending a lot of time. Trying to figure out what the who they wanna be particularly in terms of personality so Sorry for the long winded answer. But i think it's a little bit complicated and dan is a perfect vehicle to us to to talk about the larger picture so a couple of things. That's just clarify a couple of things and get some more sort of on this for you Lebatardshow in terms of when he when he discussed his network being cowardly afraid to talk about stuff Just point aboard. There was a trump rally north carolina Crowd started chanting centre-back regarding representative Omar minnesota somali refugee and that's when an laboratory hard That was the show that was that was basically the incident where he really started discussing Given his own family's history in cuba What he thought was just sort of outrageous. Act and i think jim and maybe it doesn't matter He called the network cowardly. I don't know if you call petar cowardly. But i guess if you call your own network cowardly you're in some sense. You calling jimmy petar cowardly in that way. Let me let me ask you so. You sorta spelled out a couple of things in your answer that i want to That i wanna follow up on the. How much of this in. Your opinion is was inevitable. Once john skipper left. Meaning that were there. People who john skipper hired. Who were loyal to john skipper. Who john skipper. A sort of believe should be on. Espn and certain types of Certain types of personalities. That were unafraid to talk about the next sports and social justice or sports in politics. And and we know. How close was to skipper so i wonder at least from your analysis. Even the dan le batard did sign a contract after john. Skipper left or resigned contract. Do you think this is inevitable. Once kipah was gone given the relationship that you know studios when head of production or development is fired. A new person comes in. Sometimes there's a tendency to kind of wipe the slate clean and they put a bunch of scripts and turn around and because they don't want to be affiliated with the previous regime and they want to start their own. I don't think jimmy did that. Quite frankly i mean. I think that the problem is that this was such a dynamic time after skipper left. I'm not sure what skipper would be doing now. I i the only thing i'm sure of is. He wouldn't be clamoring to renew with the nfl which was a big problem between him and baba but beyond that. I think that he had people that he really cared about. And he was devoted. To and dan was certainly one of those because he believed in his talent and he believed in his presence on espn. So that's you know. I don't i don't know if they were. I mean john has been gone for for a while now so i don't think this is about you. Know getting rid of the skipper people That probably was the case. Which mel. But i definitely don't. I don't think that this was a a skipper agenda. Skipper was in the forefront of causing this the the the bigger question is it's not about who it's about. How and. I think that this is something that quite frankly is upsetting to a lot of people and i think it gets us into the trey wingo discussion as well. Which is if they are if they are business decisions that have to be made particularly about individuals. Then by all means no one is sacrosanct. And you have to make. The problem is and i'm not trying to be jimmy petar defender here but i will say this. The the entire business of sports television sports rights and distribution and everything else. It's changing so much. And and that's one of the things that this guy is responsible for and he can't do everything and so managing personnel decisions and deciding how contracts are going to be renewed or who says who they say goodbye to whatever he can't be involved in every single facet of that and so that's left to others and actions have consequences and consequences define culture and for years and years and years. George bodenheimer used to say the culture the culture more than any other word probably and rightfully so because he was passionate about it and culture has been a big deal at espn. And i think that when you start to look at the way certain things were happening with dan. And the way certain things happen with tr trade. I think that you start to have a feeling that a lot of people up at espn have which is that. The company is not certain people at the company and key positions are not acting the way that jimmy himself has defined the kind of company that he wants and by the way the kind of person that he is and that shows. How big big espn is lemass. A direct question here In the in the lab retard Spn put out regarding the Announcement that lab retard. was The demutualised decision that That both had come to norby williamson. Espn's executive vice president executive editor is Is cited here in a in a quote Why is he the point person here on this. And we'll eventually get to a trey wingo because i think It's rather clear that norby williamson was perhaps the most significant point person in the decision not to resign trey wingo and i'm sure nor williamson has been not. I'm sure i know. Norby williamson has been a significant point person making significant decisions on content over the last couple of years in jail hills. A perfect example. You just mentioned her before she didn't pretty public about that. So let's start with the laboratory one and he's been there a long long time. I mean how. How probably go ahead. He's in your. I've talked to. I haven't talked to him in a while. Not his favorite reporter. I would think He was in your book. I'm sure if i remember and so. He's a big player now. Or he's he's re he's re emerged as a major content player. I think and so how come he's in the. How do you read the fact that he's the person the espn management person. That's front and center in the libertad. Release i mean how deep in the weeds of espn. Do you wanna go right now because there's there's a there's you know several layers of this. I mean look the short answer that i can give you is connor. Shell leapfrog norby and there were years when people thought that was kind of out of favor. Or he didn't have the power that he used to have. And yes norby's been been there for a long time and yes. I did joke that after and nuclear plants in bristol. Be nor we left with cockroaches but the truth is that if you look at norby's career i mean he was a pivot. Aw he played a pivotal role in producing particularly sportscenter during Mean mcquaid was. There obviously played a huge role but norby was an important presence and he was very close to a lotta people That were key at the time. And from chris berman and keeping dan and at times that they weren't but the time that they were but the point is that this guy has had a variety of key roles and connor. Shell leapfrogged norby under skipper and there was a whole tendency for people then to think normally had been pushed to the side and in fact at one point people were waiting for him to leave the company. It turned out that the way the connor decided to approach his job and connors bandwith Left a lot of room for to have a significant impact and particularly when you think about what which on michael on sportscenter six I think he was. He was obviously the fixer on that and ruthlessly so because he was very focused on what the objectives were and he got done for the company and he's been very effective. I think that the thing that people sometimes remark about norby is. He doesn't have the bedside manner and the to kind of finesse to make things seem a bit easier and a bit more humane And then others. And i think sometimes people thought that connor was too soft and nobody was too tough and there wasn't anything in the middle and you could go on and on with all these different theories to biggest problem is that nor be is very very sophisticated when it comes to the press And even when he's not quoted releases. I'm not sure how chris lip lock decides were. That probably not decided for him. They have people that are going to be out front on those things. If you notice. Connor did was not as out funt on a lot of these announcements as people who used to have his job in the past. I mean when mark shapiro had that job mark shapiro made the decisions mark which appears stood up and said. This is how i feel. He gave the quotes. And if you wanted to take a shot at him go ahead good luck. But he wasn't going to be hiding behind anything and he wanted to have ownership over. There's decisions because he was in charge. I think there's been a lot of confusion over the past couple of years about who was really in charge on certain things and that that dynamic between connor and norby was confusing to some but at the end of the day it doesn't surprise me that he was quoted in i'd release. That was something. That is under his purview and he certainly was very very involved in probably the architect of of it happening so you know. I think that we just we need to recognize that. Let's take a break for a moment in our conversation and Let's talk about Small businesses and. I think any of you no matter where you live. It's been a tough year. It's been an unprecedented year. And we all appreciate a know. Just how much energy and enthusiasm and drive and persistence and tenacity. And just pure love. It takes to run a small business particularly particularly this year. 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The app that's pay pal dot com slash c. a. d. n. c. e. no purchase necessary ends december twelfth. Two thousand twenty subject to official rules. All right so that leads us to to trey wingo. And i think very clearly The norby was involved in in that. And so here's what i would say to. You and i did a long piece with trae. I've written very positively about trae over the years. So i'm not hiding the fact that You know it's the same thing with that for both of us. There's somebody like. And and someone i think is professional and it's been really good for viewers. I'm gonna write it and say it and and if you then wanna call me an advocate if it blows up by i i gotta take that. I think that's fair and so You know. I asked trae in this interview. Why he's not at espn is i answer. Basically while you're going to have to ask them that and then we eventually And he's very thoughtful. Espn and very appreciative. Time wasn't somebody who basically scorched earth his way out of there. But i think the most interesting thing that i took away from that interview. Jim was Trade saying that about a year and a half before his radio contract was up. He went to espn management and said. I'm not a morning person. This is not something i wanna do. Long-term i'll finish this contract out but you know when the three years are up i really would like to do something else and i wanna give you the heads up on this and where i think myself and others would be like. Oh it's pretty professional. That's what you doing as a as a professional you let your bosses know that you can honor the contract. But when the contract's up you you'd like to do something else. this is not for you instead. Trey wingo said this is pretty pretty. Big line by to say i guess. In retrospect that might have been the worst decision. I could have ever meet. And he talked about how Initially when he took the job somebody who very close to him and that. I read it. Somebody said you know. If you don't take this job they're going to hold it against you And if you don't take this if you don't take this job they're gonna hold it against you the next time. Interestingly enough they they held it against him even though he took the job. But i took that whole takeaway as As as a decision basically by management when trey said that he wasn't gonna continue with golic lingo that they were basically going to be like. You're not happy with this dude. You make a shit load of money wherein cost-cutting role we're not finding we're finding a new rule for you even if you've been An excellent nfl draft host. Even if you've been an excellent nfl live host For lack of better word. You know you made your money and now we're gonna fuck you by not resigning you That's how i read it. You may read it differently. But that's how i. That's how i read this. Which again i would. Cite is not good business because in theory. Espn should want people with institutional knowledge and professionalism on the air and if it's about sort of if there's money play here find the money number that can work for both sides but this seemed a little. I don't know it seemed at least on management's side a once again like laboratory are a little bit personal here. But you tell me you're you're you're more of a management guy than i don't know what that means but i read your i read your interview with Do try and i thought it was really well done. My take away from the interview was that he's An incredibly I mean he doesn't have a huge ego and the way he comported himself. Under the circumstances. I thought it was extraordinary. And that's the that's the guy that people came to know. look again. i come back to this idea that there's a lot of different ways to do this. And part of what executives are paid for in in that realm is making sure that you deal with things in a way that is good for the company and good for employees particularly employees. Who have been around for a long time. So all over. Today and ad networks and studios. There's going to be conversations between executives and talent and they're going to be saying look we we like this or are we can't do this or this is where we are. And can you help us or any kind of conversations. And i think that when you don't have those conversations and you don't sit down a table and you say look we want to be totally transparent about what's going on given what you've said and given what we here's what we need. Is there a way that we can work this out. Or this is what we're thinking. Or whatever i mean why somebody who has been there for as long as he has and has done you know as much work as he is done and by the way there were times when he got passed over for gigs and wanted something and didn't get it and he was a class act because he didn't run to deadspin or somebody else and bitch about it and he wasn't running around the halls acting like a child like some people do so i mean he was a pretty classy active. Y deserve to be a surprise air. Why why is it so difficult. Why can't there be transparency. And i think that that's something that you just pee and is i. I would say suffering from right now and again. i don't put jimmy. Because even though yes. He's responsible for everything he can't be an all those conversations i mean. He does talk talent and he is. He tried to make himself available but that's not his job that's not. That's that's not his job. He he is in a ground war in southeast asia in terms of trying to figure out the future that business and dealing with a very competitive right situation on a number of properties and so the people. The question is do the people that are interacting with are they reflecting the same kind of values that jimmy has and I'm not sure that. But i think that it doesn't have to be that difficult. Just sit down with a guy. He's a he's a reasonable guy. And by the way you brought up bad in you know nor was involved in that too and this isn't about but by the way this isn't a bitch. Festive norby williamson. 'cause i happen to like more be and i certainly know that. He has a a pretty intense track record over over several decades of coming through for the company. And you know and really doing a great job. I just think that in certain areas he may not be the person to be like. There's sometimes you know there's a great surgeon that comes in and does the operation. But then there's another doctor that talks to the family out in the waiting room. If norby is the guy if jimmy wants norby the guy who does the tactical the surgery walks and kind of just has his mind focused that boom. Then you need somebody else for a for a long time there. Laurie orlando and jerry. Madeline and there were a lot of people that were supposed to make the edges softer and you know. Maybe that's that's what they need. More of but the truth is that somebody like trade. And and and i did not desert i. I don't even want to get back into that. But that was a huge mistake. And of course adnan's career since he left. Espn is proof that they you know not only made a mistake in not giving him a second chance but the way that was dealt with was i thought a league and and unnecessary and And it was a mistake for them. But i just think at the end of the day the way you treat your people is a way of defining this quote unquote culture that they care about. And there's just too many people that you know that i hear from You know sometimes. You know Numerous times but just put it that way. Numerous people More and more over the past several months. That are very upset about the place that they are working. And that's not about dollars and cents. And that's not about them recognizing that they don't have to make layoffs or changes or whatever it's just about how so couple of things there and then we'll get to our final topic guy. I mean i feel like you being generous with norby personally. But that's okay. I mean that's your your opinion and And you know you have a different relationship with him than than i don't really have. He was kind enough to participate in the book. And i've talked to him a couple of times. But i know they're certainly journalists out there who he's more friendly with and we can see that Helen keller figure out but I just You know. I'm not trying to trash his work. I just think that Yeah i mean amazingly enough. The espn leaks continue to happen out of bristol. After adnan virk left. I can't believe i mean it's it's a casablanca. Basically on bit cannot believe. I've won in roulette a couple of times here. Holiday season means stocking up on some holiday essentials like tree decorations and an ugly christmas sweater with the bank of america. Cash rewards credit card. You can choose to earn three percent cashback on online shopping. The essentials have never felt more rewarding visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright twenty twenty bank of america corporation. So here's the here's the last part i wanna get to and You know and there's some through lines here when it comes to lead tournament goes well. And that's the. I mean jim. The sheer amount of quality journalists that have left. Espn now in the last five years is just it's head-spinning just this past week Wayne raise any o'connor announced The he'd been let go basically bhai. Espn or or or espn was doing. One of those deals where they're sort of they pay you to go essentially those are two. I mean to incredibly talented guys who who produced amazing work over the years. Bonnie ford longtime friend of mine a phenomenal journalist negotiated a buyout basically said that that that she wanted to try their stuff so she's in a little bit of a different situation than those. Let go but again. Just a massive amount of firepower. Leaving and jim this just comes on the heels of this latest layoff round where we saw people like claire smith an absolute legend in baseball writer. Ivan maisel in a longtime college college football respected writer. There people like you trust me. The public doesn't even know. I worked with a guide. Sports illustrated for many years named david. Sabino who was a key point of t. l. behind the scenes analytics in research. I and you know. There's hundreds and hundreds of those people in this last round. And then jim i'm not even if we could spend all day if you for both of us if we wanted to go back to the previous layoffs when people j mcmanus in and ashley fox and you know and so many i if i start naming a million people it's you know and then i'm gonna leave somebody out. It's not my intention here. But i mean we're talking. Hundreds jim hummel hundreds and hundreds of journalists who are no longer two pm. And i'm not su- both of us are not so removed from the time when they used to tout that they were you know the top dogs when he came to sports journalism in the country and that they were absolutely committed to this. I remember whether it would be connor. Shell or skipper and said that you know this. Journalism is always gonna be a massive part of who we are and outside the lines used to be on daily and then they gutted dad so you know again. I realize i'm sort of going all over the place here but man i just. I don't know like this week like it just really once again. Hit home just how much talent they have lost all in in our world over the last Over the last five years. Well i think you gotta go back to the john. Walsh stays to talk about the fact that they were the kind of company though that celebrated that and for a long time they were spending a ton of money on on journalists and and they had an incredibly wide and deep bench and then it was like espn chicago espn. I mean they went down we. We've seen them follow a lot of different business plans. At the end of the day it might be so simple as the arithmetic of hundred million homes times eight dollars a month versus seventy eight million dollars. Seventy million homes And that's a lot of money and we are. you know. Sometimes you have to wait. You know a couple of years and you think and you look back and you go boy. Thinks we're really changing then. We don't need that. We know that we know that. So much of the businesses in flocks. And we know that they are trying to figure it out. The thing that i think would be helpful though for. Espn and is. I feel like we're suffering through a million different kinds of cuts and and and not not layoffs. I mean like you know reasonably cuts on your arm or something because instead of coming out in in a sweeping state of the sport and this is what y- espn is now and what it needs to be in the future. I mean. I think there was an attempt there to layoffs Prior when they talked about your to digital and when they when they talked about that you you had a sense of understanding what the transformation was and you understood why some of the decisions they made. Even though i think that for some of those people who were there for a long time. There's something called training and they could have these smart people in dedicated people and they could have given the opportunity to some people to Learn new tricks but that was their decision. But right now i think that i i i mean are they saying given the long list that you've talked about and people that i know and you know again. It's hard to mention certain names. 'cause you don't wanna leave out others but the problem is are they saying that they don't wanna be journalistic entity anymore are they or are they saying. They're not saying bright right but then what are the repercussions of these losses. What does that what does that. What does that mean for the kind of journalistic and see that. You wanna be yeah. I'm sorry monroe to. I do want you come and the one thing that just very few free. Forget the fact that i don't like obviously the fact that they've let people go including people who are friends of mine who i think are really good. That's a personal thing. But the larger jim and this is a real one is like they were a safe harbor four sports journalists and at one point like the preeminent place to try to get to to be hired where you could have job in what is a hard business to have a long career in for decades there. That's what is the most disappointing. Is that when you take them away. And then you see what sort of is left at that level. That's what's scary is that there's not going to be. i know. the athletic has a ton of journalists. But like there the there's not going to be another. Espn to replace the replace espn. And they're going to be people who've been laid off by them who are never going to get that kind of job again which You know it's just it's it's just disappointing and frustrating. You're right like they went from one hundred million to seven million households. And there's less money but you cannot argue that there has been a systematic decision here in prioritizing and they've made a priority in that they are going to be a place that is going to put a lot of their eggs if not all their eggs into that fell basket. And that's where the money's going. The money is going to sports rights. They're they're ultimately going to be a place that airs games and then has content around those games and sometimes the content around the games will be journalism and sometimes the content around those games will be opinion and and sports opinion. Well look. I think it's having repercussions i mean. You think about kids coming out of journalism school now and years ago they would have been dying to go into you know. Start at a small city and cover sports for local paper and then migrate their way into a place like espn or the new york times. Or whatever and i e that just doesn't that's not happening along the way it did. I mean my son studied journalism and it was a very short conversation in terms of whether or not who's going to continue to. I mean he covered. You know the basketball team the football team. He wrote hundreds of articles in his four years at in school and there was no part of them wanted to do that even though he loved it and even though he's good at it because there was no there there's not a perception of amongst the generation that that's that's a viable alternative. That's that's that's a career that you can pursue and that will be there for you if you want it and so i think it's it's having a lot of a lot of repercussions down the line and it's very it's great. That places like the athletic are around but it certainly seems that. Espn one other thing. That we should mention this context bodily. Obviously he was the preeminent ambassador for great journalism at at espn and was in the chair for some of the most important journalistic moments in espn history. And i think that the fact that he's not there. I mean look. He worked his ass off. He's entitled to to to wind down But i think that it was pretty clear that bob saw the writing on the wall in terms of the commitment to journalism and whether or not he could stomach going through More and more rounds of watching people you know valuable colleagues and producers who worked with and journalists who we really respected being voted off the island I think you know. That's that was something that bob saw early on and and i think it's you know it was. I think it was not to put words in his mouth. But i certainly felt like it was difficult for him. And so then you lose somebody like that as well and you know maybe maybe a couple of years earlier this guy is. That's a that's a guy who could. Yeah that's a guy who can save jobs. I mean just. That's the reality when you have a guy with that kind of standing you know he can make buddy. Couldn't well. i know that but it for a for a while he could like you. Could you could at least make the argument to You know a skipper or somebody like that to try to keep as many people at o. T. l. but yes The the the winds have changed and i. I don't know who. I don't know if there is a bobbly left at espn who can who can save these jobs. I think what seems clear to me and we'll sort of wrap this up here is that they're they're getting toward. I hope first of all. I will say this. I've said this imprint a million times so this is not me just saying this now. Anybody who gives a shit about what have to do here. And i'm not even saying you should. I've always said that. Espn's feature produce on the television side of the best collection one of the most talented collection of any group espn and they are journalists through and through. So there's always going to be journalistic features. Espn as long as that group is stays whole and and continues. And you know. There's there's still terrific people. They're the tj quinn's and the paul vard's and and and elizabeth merrill's etcetera but and here's sort of big but jim it does feel like at least in some sense that like the blueprint year is to try to get like whoa jr in each sport. Like the woge model so you have origin the nba. And you've got jeff passan for For mlb and maybe. That's why shouldn't skiing. Emily kaplan and nhl and you know obviously you probably still load up on the nfl. Because that's your cash cabinet. You know what i'm saying jim. It does seem like the the paradigm here is just to get the ultimate news breaker for every sport and rather than having all these feature writers who used to work for all the different. Espn entities. like that's your journalism approach now is to basically own the ticker own Own the twitter sphere with the news. Break well if that's the case. And if that's what their business flash strategic plan is then you know that then that's it and people can decide accordingly whether or not they want to go there with that kind of Uncertainty surrounding them. And it also means that a lot of people are gonna go through painful exits that but there are still. I'm glad you mentioned that. There are still terrific people. There i just i guess if there's one takeaway from all of this van natta then again. I'll get in trouble. If i don't mention but i mean i think look i think the takeaway for me is Two fold one years if you have to do it. It's there's a way to do it and there's a way not to do it. And the second thing is that some point it would be great instead of talking about you know all these different individual trees that fall Let us know what the forest looks like. They communicate what is what. What is the vision. What is the mission. What is the new. What is espn. Five point oh What you know that. That's all and i think that that could be. That's that's something that could be not only clarifying but perhaps even an energizing force for for for the network and a way to distinguish themselves from the competition. This well said. Is there anything else you wanna hit on. Before formula chatty are meant to try to know to smaller amount of time but But we don't you know look i. I think i'm glad that the dan and trae or two important people. But i'm glad we mentioned others. That may not have may not have such such wide following and You know we'll be very clear. Both both of those people given their prominence going to land in great places particular tarred who may end up with a deal with the digital player or go out on his own. That could be a multi million dollar deal. So it's less about like will they be fine and more about like what is the signaling sort of heading forward. Yeah i mean look you always hope i mean the man has gone on to degrade things and i'm sure trae well and dan wahad no problems in fact the irony is much like the case was simmons when he got let go The financial picture post bristol is is often brighter but you can't work for four storms. Everybody and i hope the journalists like i mentioned the connors in the body fords and the wayne drinks etc claire. Smith's like will they find something that's the that's the real thing but you're correct like the the post bristol landscape for the for the people at the laboratory level. Now has changed dramatically. In fact it's a infect. Bill simmons i. I don't even think this is a controversial statement. He the greatest thing that happened to him. I think jim you'd agree is leaving. Espn at least in terms of financially. Right i mean. The guy's got generational wealth now and his family set for life. I don't know if that happens if he stayed is. Espn in fact it doesn't app now. There's there's no way there's no. There is absolutely no way a various times they to sales team at espn had difficulty selling bills. Podcast yes. I know that i know that i can have changed since then so that might be a little but my only point is that there was no way even when he was the highest paid employee and espn. That's that's that's nothing compared to obviously you know what he's done since so You hope it works out for everybody all right jim. Thank you as always. Jim miller james andrew miller you know his work from from all his bestselling books and his arjun podcasts and found on twitter. If he's doing any kind of peace or story he'll be the what are you coming up promote yourself. Now i gotta do better twitter. I i just You know that. Twitter thing i haven't i just don't even have the time for. I don't know how you. I don't know how you make the time to. I'm not sure i wouldn't. I'm not sure. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Jim i mean it. It's generally speaking. Those who voided are in a better position than those who are on like myself too much. Happy holidays she of i'm bringing you back though for For the end of for an end of the year thing that will do a maybe the last week of december Or at the very latest early first week of january. But we'll talk about this year and and and do another. Espn writ large at the end of the month as well. Thanks as always for coming on the sports media. podcast thank thank. You are back in the studio. Thanks jim miller is always for For his insight in an interesting conversation. You like these kind of These conversations if you like this podcast head to the sports media richard. Hr types page. Check out the some of our recent episodes. I think I think you'll enjoy it if you missed it before this episode. Trey wingo who we talked about during this podcast Forty eight minute conversation with him. Where trae basically gave you some pretty good insight into why he's no longer. Dsp and what he wants to do in the future prior to that ryan ruko of espn on his New assignments including the women's final four and lindsay adler and libby with right of the athletic on the importance of qiming becoming the first female general manager in major league baseball prior to that hall of fame. Basketball coach mufid mcgraw soccer journalist. Grant wall muffin mcgraw. Now and acc network analyst prior to that chris fowler espn talking about Cohen college football during pandemic as well as his calling the nfl this year. A little bit and jordan cornet in shape hepler cornet the first married couple to host or co host. I guess in. Espn radio show to the archives for many episodes. And if you like this please leave us a five star review and a nice note on that review. My bosses certainly look at that podcast continues. It actually does matter. Let me thank everybody's helped out on today's podcast. Patrick antonetti shaun cherry next. Everybody case thirteen. Chris corcoran spencer brown. John german. Thank you of course the audience for listening. And we'll see you soon on the sports media podcast.

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