3 Episode results for "Lieutenant Dennis"
Ep 119: A Likely Friendship
"Kimberly Boone and Anita Smith. He had become fast friends. They had plenty in common. They both lived in affluent seminole county. About forty minutes from Walt Disneyworld they were about the same age in their forties. They were both working moms and were married to men who shared the same name Robert. and. They were both inmates facing punishments for similar crimes. In seminole county jail where the two women were each held in custody at one point Anita and Kimberly got to know each other. Anita was out on bail before her trial, but the two women still stayed in touch and regularly spoke on the phone over several months in two thousand twelve. Hello, you have a prepaid call from amber. Dave vintage about attorneys in what they felt were disappointing legal developments they gossiped about the prosecutors and other inmates, and mused about their family members, seeing their mugshots on mugshots dot com. That's not my second one. We'd be better, you know, but. I. Don't know I was just getting ready to look up when they call picture this time like I was like well I. Think Mine is my second. One looks better, but I don't know which ones on there I was just kinda like yeah I. Really Neighbors Yeah, either one of mine don't need to be. Seen by any other SHEMA. Is Terrible. It's like actually he should doesn't look too bad like she knows a see I, what I think is bad. Is the camera like they don't tell you that? The camera is like six feet above you exactly, so of course you look evil, because you're looking straightforward, yeah! Exactly I'm like that's not fair, might not. Encouraged each other to keep going as they both felt alone with their pending criminal cases. The two women's conversations were recorded and monitored by prosecutors who listened in to see if Anita or kimberly divulged more. Times. The phone calls. You'll hear throughout. This episode were published by Multiple News outlets after the story of their friendship I broke in two thousand fifteen. And so today we're going to take a look behind the scenes at the two women's cases as they made their way through the criminal justice system. This is Gillian and you're listening to court junkie episode, One nineteen. Have, you guys heard about Rossi's this company that makes stylish sustainable shoes and bags made for life on the go there carefully crafted with ECO friendly materials like re purposed plastic water bottles and marine, plastic. Ralphie's shoes are incredibly comfortable with zero break. In period, thanks to their seamlessly nick design with lots of chic styles to choose from Rossi shoes are the perfect pair for well really anything. I got the Chelsea style in Berry lattice stitch and I wear them with everything dresses, jeans, shorts, leggings specially leggings lately. 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A man inside the House Robert Klein the third. Anita's estranged husband was dead. Lieutenant Dennis. Bell a veteran of the veto police department saw Roberts naked body face down in the budget. Roberts left hand was by a knife, but the murder weapon. A gun was covered up by bed sheets on the bed. It was a chaotic scene. The families skittish pets ran around the house. The couple's children were at the home to as please began to investigate what happened. Lieutenant Bell Noticed Roberts close in the living room, he observed a wine glass in the bedroom and a Tequila bottle on the kitchen counter. Things just weren't adding up. There wasn't any sign of forced entry to the House Lieutenant Bell said in his deposition taken in April of two thousand eleven. He asked the fire battalion chiefs opinion could need his injuries. Be Self inflicted. Lieutenant Ballast signed a police officer to ride in the ambulance with Anita and accompany her. He rarely sent a police escort to the hospital, but is department appeared to be investigating a homicide now. Bag Anita's hands. Lieutenant Bell instructed the officer and don't let her out of your sight. Anita might be the primary witness to a homicide lieutenant. Bell thought so. He wanted to get her statement. He also wanted to save any trace evidence whether she had been assaulted in had evidence under her fingernails, or if Anita had fired the gun. Anita complained about being under the polices, watchful eye and one of her conversations with Kimberly. So sneaky. God lease officers. Back in the annual behind me. Behind me, Nazia a word. Mental notes on what I said. That against it is sneaky but is. Not ask the paramedics. Because that's huge thing. Here because you want talking to him and they're like. What did you take notes and you know? What I mean like I can't believe that that's like they've you know. In the emergency room. Anita's diagnosis wasn't life threatening. She had scratches swollen, left eye, a chipped tooth, and the most prominent injury, a knife wound on her lower abdomen. It was a shallow wound, not deep more like a slash or a slice, instead of his stab wound described Dr Predrag Bullock, the chief medical examiner in Saint John's Coney, who later reviewed Anita's medical records? Every time as a forensic pathologist I see a lot of injuries, but there inflicted by other people to other people, and there's always a severe depth to it and severe loss of blood, and so there's always determination behind that Dr. Bullock said during his December two thousand eleven deposition. But in Anita's case, the doctor confirmed lieutenant bells suspicions Anita's wounds were self inflicted. If it's committed by the same person then there's always a hesitation because of the pain. The person who holds the knife is afraid of the pain, and it does only shallow injuries. The doctor said. He observed evidence of rough sex, but Dr Bullock said it was quote absolutely not possible to tell whether it was consensual or nonconsensual. What he did, no was. It would be painful. Robert Stuff marked the violent end of a troubled relationship. Leeann set a tall, a neighbor who had built a rapport with both Robert and Anita, and who regularly watched their children was privy to many of the couples secrets. She witnessed some of the troubling signs herself. At first, the couple's life together seemed promising, Robert and Anita who had both been married before. We're starting a new life together and raising their blended family of four children. They both had two children from prior relationships. They appear to be inseparable. Leeann said in her January, two thousand twelve deposition Robert was always. They're always at her side. They seemed to be happily wedded newlyweds. But there was stress building in the marriage. Robert whose background was in the military, was a no nonsense father. He was the strict rule enforcer of the households while Anita and the other hand was more fun loving and relaxed. Her Co worker described her as sunny and upbeat. Anita Lake to throw parties. Sometimes they're different. Personalities clashed. They began to fight about money about Robert's sister Belinda, who seemed to favour Roberts children over Anita's at least in Anita's is. And they thought about the everyday problems of parenting like one of the kids using too much hot water in the shower, or about how much supervision the younger children needed. Anita complained about her husband's troubling behavior, and what had become a disharmonious households Leeann testified. You could tell it vibe through the whole. House Leeann said I could feel it. It was tense. Anita told me a lot about his controlling behavior. They were always fighting if they weren't fighting. Even when she went to work, they were fighting over the telephone or they would textile day. Friends described Robert as domineering and controlling. Anita's co-worker said Robert gave her the creeps. She remembered an awkward encounter when she visited Anita to help get ready for her daughter's birthday party. He did not want me in the house. Instead of giving his girl time every time I was in a room with Anita he would be in the background. Just watching, he wasn't very warmer. Welcome ING Milagros. Alicia testified in her deposition. The fights in Anita's Roberts relationship were escalating. Robert pushed her put holes in the walls and accused her of cheating Anita. Told Leeann according to court records. Leeann witnessed the aftermath of fight herself when she went to the home and saw Robert Angry and the children crying hysterically, the police were later called intervene. took a physical toll on Anita. All these signs of complete stress migraine headaches losing weight, not being able to sleep, you could see that she was down and out Leeann said. The best part of their relationship was their sex life Anita confided to Leon, but that wasn't enough to keep the couple living together. Anita wanted to separate which devastated Robert. He said he wasn't ever going to let her go. This is a temporary thing I. wished him luck. Leeann testified actually I was quite encouraging with him that I really hope it works out. The marriage was in jeopardy. But Robert and Anita continued to have an intimate relationship despite living in separate homes. Once again Anita continued to confide in her close friend neighbor Leeann. Leeann testified in her deposition quote. She told me she was trying to wean away. From Robert, that was the only way he wouldn't let her breathe. He kept on coming over and kept on trying to get her back. Every which way it was constant, she was afraid she made it sound like she had no option but to have sex with him. She was trying to dribble away from him rather than just cutting clean and the reason why she did that. She told me was for the kids. She loved all the children. Anita confided to other friends that the sex became rougher. Not Everybody believed Anita's version of the events however. One of Robert's staunchest supporters was his sister Belinda Klein that same sibling who had been a source of conflict during their marriage. Belinda, steak, robbery, the younger brother whom she called, bubba had never been verbally aggressive or physically violent towards anita or anyone quote. My brother was very laid back and easy going he'd give you the shirt off his back, and then he let you take every last item from him in order, said Belinda, who worked as a field training officer for the Volusia County Sheriff's Office. Anita always seemed to find something wrong. Nothing was good enough. She also excelled at playing the victim, which gave her the upper hand in the relationship Belinda said. My brother worked desperately at trying to make her happy in trying to do the right thing, and trying to appease her Belinda said in her April, two thousand eleven deposition. Linda's advice to Robert early on. Find somebody else to Dede's. Robert didn't listen to his big sister. He was in love with Anita. Did Anita Love Robert in the beginning I don't know. Belinda retorted in her deposition still up in the air without one. Linda and her sister-in-law's relationship was clearly icy. Anita gave a president of the children's photographs to Belinda. Then promptly asked for the gifts back. She's into terse message to Belinda. To give identical Christmas presents to all the children, not just. Roberts biological ones. Now that Robert and Anita were splitting up Robert seemed to be handling it well, according to his sister. He said that things were going good around the House that there was calm and the kids were doing better Belinda testified. He knew things needed to just move along the fighting back tears throughout her deposition Belinda remembered her last conversation with her brother shortly before he died and how cheerful he had been. Belinda who carried a gun and had a career in the military law enforcement admitted she was scared of her sister-in-law. I feel that Anita is unstable. I think that she's vindictive. I think that she plotted and murdered brother Olinda said. There's never a bad time to save money. We all agree on that, but now more than ever finding smart ways to put some cash back in your pocket can make a big difference. One Way to do that is to save on the things you already pay for like home insurance. If you own a home, re shopping your home. Insurance rates with policy genius could save you a good chunk of change and the best part. is you barely need to lift a finger to do it? 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Anita sat in the interview room of the Police Department and began to tell authorities what happened in her house that night that led to her estranged husband staff. Robert who had moved out three months ago, walked her front door with a key that he had gotten from his son and a bottle of Tequila. It wasn't unusual on Mondays. He regularly visited her for a rendezvous, and then he would always return back home, according to Anita's arrest affidavit. The tragic evening started out amicably. Took shots of Tequila together and watched an hour of television. They went upstairs to her bedroom and had consensual sex. Anita went to take a shower when she got out of the bathroom Robert was still lying naked on the bed, and that's when Anita told him to leave. Anita told authorities. He wouldn't leave. Instead he grabbed her arm and climbed on top of her. His tone turned angry Robert accused her of cheating on him. Anita told police that Robert grabbed a knife and held it against her throat. When. He went to get coconut oil for lubricant. Anita took her chance in grabbed her thirty eight revolver that she kept in her end table. She said she hid it under her pillow. Robert returned to bed, and they continue to have rough sex. Her defense team said she was raped violently. Anita reached for her gun under her pillow and pointed it at his chest. She ordered him off of her. Robert just laughed. The gun accidentally went off a misfire that hit Robert in the chest. Anita told authorities according to her arrest affidavit. It wasn't a lethal shot. Then Anita intentionally shot him again right in the chest which killed him. He rolled off the bed onto the floor and laid still face down. It was a very traumatic situation for me and I. Don't know maybe I'm filling in the holes because I don't remember what happened I. Don't know, and maybe that's wrong for me to do that. Anita said during her taped interview with police. She tried to recreate that night. In the interview police pressed her to explain her knife wound. She said both she and Robert had grabbed for the knife. Rustling each other for the weapon. One detective asked her straight up if Anita had stabbed herself. I I was holding the knife when it hit, but it was inflicted into me. Yes, needed answered, but his hand was on it to. Later Anita's defense team complained that she was bullied during her police interview and was exhausted without sleep and food. And I never saw any picks in hospital ahead of security in a hospital in today's papers. Oh really I didn't see it. They had a picture of me in the hospital today's paper. Yeah. Maybe well. That's probably a good picture. They've. Strangle marks on your neck, so you know. But the only bad thing you're saying about you if That you admitted that you yourself, but then it also said today that you know just, doesn't we? You didn't know how it happened in. Your lawyer, says you know they were questioned you dribble. They said they kind of put that my they. They said this is what happened. Exactly, and then they. Couldn't get me to say where I did it or how I did it because I was just agreeing with. You know what I I've been thinking about. I have mice theory on how happened? Yeah I. think that he had it. You've got us because you said you managed to get it away from him. And then I think you grab your fan like. kind of pushed toward, but I think. What I what what happened is is. Sort of You know when. He was there. I just remember bringing coconut oil. They're saying actually the bathroom so? That's when I grabbed. Came back, and we fought over, but I kept saying his hand over mind. I couldn't remember that. Authorities didn't believe Anita Story. She was charged with second degree murder. Anita complained it felt like the system was rigged against women like them because you're your upper middle class. And you're you know what I mean like out to get. You and I feel like that's the same thing with me making me a plea deal of thirty years. I'm like really. Gave Erica eight years or whatever and all these other people. Went welling murder that you were eight years and. Cleaning up the crime scene and know what about the crime? They give her three years really. I'm like I just feel like. We have targets on our backs because we were standing. If I if we didn't have any team and we didn't you know Yeah I. Didn't have a job or anything the next excuse us because you know we'll decent looking. You know we right. The Fire Or something. Anita's defense team wanted to make the case that she was immune from prosecution protected because of Florida's stand your ground law because she had acted in Self-defense. Her defence claimed Robert came over to Anita's house, unwelcomed and entered with a key. He had stolen from his son. He then raped her, and cut her with the knife, scratching her cheek and neck, and threatening to kill her. Her defense team said in an August two thousand twelve court motion. What happened to Miss Smithian? Her home is precisely why the legislature passed the stand your ground laws. If a woman is not safe in her home. Then where is she save the motion read? A judge however saw differently seminole county circuit judge Kenneth Lester Junior who had been overseeing another high profile case that George Zimmerman the man accused of murdering Trayvon. Martin denied Anita's motion. The judge ruled Anita hadn't acted in self defense. Anita and Robert were quote very friendly going so far as to have consensual sex, the judge wrote. It appears that the defendant shot Mister Klein out of anger and then staged. The scene presented her testimony to make it seem as if she had been raped. During the critical part of the alleged incident, the defendant appears to have acted in a cool and calculated manner, not in a manner indicating fear of Mr, Klein, the judge went on to say. The. The decision was a blow to the defense I was so disappointed. I just knew for sure that they were gonNA. Start their tape I. Just knew it in my art. I do and I don't know what happened like it like it's just it's so bizarre. I don't even know what happened and I. For talked to the media. What everybody here is like. and this was. This was in her own house, so they should just do away with this ball. Nobody nobody ever gets approved on this. Nobody ever gets off on staying there. They. were. They had a whole article on at one a few weeks ago month to about. The number of people to file for standard and the small percentage better approved for it, and it's just the the dicky. Listen now. You know. And I think them. I heard you always. Know. That hurry yeah. He's not going to get off of around for sure because you didn't. He's not even going for siege around here now. For Interest to me. What's the difference? What is it this thing and It's. All this time Anita had been free on a one hundred thousand dollars bail while she awaited trial. Few people in the world's could understand what she had been through being arrested the police interrogation, the shame, and how her criminal proceedings affected her children. Except for Kimberly Boone. They talked about how their pieces took a toll on their families. Today's my grandma's hundred second birthday. After on the phone. And talked on phone, and I compose myself going to discern college. My grandma doesn't know anything about me. For two and a half years I haven't come, I have bothered. Come visit her. Oh my gosh I know and I'm like what you. Somebody's color the truth. Instead of trying to shelter her investment. And she's a hundred two years old. Like, she could barely big. I love you. And you know she. Got Now. Sorry. sorry that. You didn't even get to finish. With anything. I talked to you and I feel better. At this point, the two women acted more like family than friends. Anita regularly gave money to Kimberly to put in her commissary account and remembered to send a birthday card. She helped Kimberly still in confinement in the county jail. Renew her driver's license and became her power of attorney. And I told her mom, I said once my cases over, and if I get my insurance. I'm. GonNa go hair. Attorney took. Care of her. Get my crap out of the waivers I. He. Trust me. There's nothing I wanNA. Do More than to help you know. I said I just can't do it right now. Yeah, I was like I. can't because they are looking for anything. And Nail my back in jail. Sometimes, their conversations were more lighthearted. They joked about the jailhouse toilets or complained about men and. Aren't they? Were just going to be like hot single. Women over the age, of forty. I JUST WANNA. Love her. Yeah, really. We're going to be tubers. Four years after Robert Stuff Anita's trial began in late, two, thousand, fourteen, in the Sanford Florida courthouse north of Orlando. Anita talked about having the right demeanor as she went up against assistant state attorney Stacey Salman's. I have this stacey. She's mean. percent of my name's mentioned. Here at least it's a woman. It would be hard for me to End Up to a man saying unless you. You know what I mean I still think I. Still I can. I'll be okay. Like I. Think I'll get I'll be you know. And I think more cool and collected. I am six months. You know. Much around the. I'M GONNA cry. Like. Lawrence. Emotional. so you know if you'RE GONNA make? Yeah exactly. Yeah? Never. Know what to do your cry. They're like oh she's been trying to get symphonies. You don't like Oh, she doesn't care. If you cry. They're saying that you're trying to be over emotional. And then if you don't. I didn't think you're coldhearted. That's. Win I. Just gave up I'm just GonNa do what I'm GonNa do. I just gave up I'm. Rob Letter when the sentencing. That I had shown no remorse whatsoever. And what they're trying to save me, but every time they interview anyone. About the remorse thinking like Oh, absolutely, so they can try to say that, but she and Kimberly wants discussed what prison would be like? Hey. What's he doing out a thing what you're doing? I was talking to my My neighbors stairs. Twenty five. Prison for I. Don't know three years for some time drug company. So I. Like really boring. Planning on making a trip there like I don't know. asking. Our stories list. It's not what you see. But both women sounded hopeful that Anita would win. Her child and Kimberly would win an appeal for her past conviction. They talked about going on a vacation together or attending church, where the two women charged with violent crimes against their husbands would surely turn heads in the pews. During her trial Anita did not testify. But the jury heard her frantic nine, one one call and the statements she made to authorities were her story kept changing sometimes, Robert Stabbed, her in the side, or she stabbed herself, or she didn't know how she was hurt. Shirley Rice. A registered nurse testified that during Anita's rape exam, she observed vaginal and anal tears that were evidence of a sexual assaults. Anita watched in the courtroom as St Salman said in the closing arguments that Anita was guilty of second degree murder. The prosecutor argued that any normal person who hit a thirty eight caliber handgun, and hid it under a pillow, and then cockpit, and pressed it against somebody's chest before pulling the trigger would know that it would seriously injure or kill the other person. Was that act done by a way of ill will hatred, spite or evil intent, the defendants own words provide this. She described herself as being angry. The prosecutor said. She portrayed Anita annoyed. That Robert wanted a second sexual encounter that night. Annoyed need to shower a second time annoyed. He was slow in leaving. Her home annoyed that she had to wake up early for work the next morning and would inevitably be tired. Did Robert Rape Anita that night. Absolutely, not the prosecutor insisted. The couple have history of rough but consensual sex. The prosecutor said. They played date rape role playing, but it was clear on this night. Robert had no intention of hurting the woman. He was still legally married to because he went to get lubricant, she said. Anita's defense also got its turn to sway the jury. As I was sitting here, listening to the state's argument, I realized that this case is a lot more than just about what happened. Defense Attorney Rick Jansher began. The defense attorney asked the jury to think of the bigger picture. How does law enforcement in society treat a woman who has been the victim of sexual abuse? Do, we come to a decision in our own minds without any evidence that just because she stated that she had consensual sex with her husband, and that it turned violent that she withdrew consent. Do We then assume that's not true? Do we assume that a woman cannot be raped by her husband, he asked. The defense attorney attacked Talon forcement treated Anita from the very beginning. Ms Smith E had just been brutally assaulted. Brutally raped, she said a knife held to her neck, threatened to be killed and the first thing that happens to you when you go to the hospital for treatment. Is they put bags on your hands bags on your hands? I mean think about that. The defense attorney went on. This is a woman who is in a situation where the person that she had one time loved who she shared children with for three years now all of a sudden violent goes over the top violent and says I could kill you if I wanted to know. Other man is going to. Have you think what was going through her mind at that time and how she reacted. I submit to you, Ladies and gentlemen that the only one who knows what happened that day is Anita. Smith He. The jury deliberated for two and a half hours before reaching a verdict in November two thousand fourteen. Anita Smith. He was guilty. Anita collapsed crying in the courtroom. In February two thousand fifteen, she was sentenced to Foodie years in prison. By the time Kimberly Boone was chatting on the phone with Anita she had been in custody for three and a half years. She was accused of trying to kill her husband. Robert Boone twice in three months. Her first trial stemmed from an incident in March of two thousand nine prosecutors say Kimberly lured her husband outside claiming to hear an intruder. He stood in the driveway to the garage before dawn when she shot him mistaking him for the burglar, she said. Her husband said. It was dark outside. She couldn't be sure who it was. Her defense argued. The jury believed Kimberley's account and ruled. She was not guilty in July two thousand ten. But. She had not won her independence yet. By then the prosecutors were bringing another case against her. This one connected to a suspicious fire that destroyed part of her home three months before she shot her husband. While authorities investigated the shooting. They stumbled upon more evidence that made them reopen the house fire case which the fire marshal had initially ruled as accidental. Just before Christmas, in two thousand eight, Robert took a nap in the couple's bedroom. He remembered before he fell asleep that kimberly had brought him a glass of water and told him that she was going to run errands. He woke up to the sound of the smoke detector, alarm, ringing and fire, blazing from the back wall of the master bedroom. He was groggy and disoriented. He tried to find the children, but they weren't in the house. This smoke surrounded him. He saw the daylight through a window and banged on the pain. Then everything went black. He woke up in the hospital and couldn't remember the neighbor who broke the glass and pulled him out of the Burning House. Kimberly had acted strangely that day. Her family members said. Robert said she took the family's bulldog with her to run errands something she rarely did. And while she was out, Kimberly called Robert's mother, and told her that he was relaxing at home and had lit some candles. An inclusion. Kimberley's mother-in-law told police. The Robert a former firefighter wasn't the kind of Man to light candles and be careless. His children also had asthma. He denied what his wife said. The investigation couldn't determine the origin of the fire. Report showed Robert had xanax in his body a drug. He did not have a prescription for, but that Kimberly did. Authorize probed deeper detectives were aware that the couple's relationship had been rocky for years Robert said Kimberly had been cheating on him. The police confiscated Kimberley's computer for forensic investigation, which showed somebody had searched online for several dozen troubling terms including how to poison. Someone naturally can too much San axe. Stop your heart how to cause a house explosion, and how do fire Marshal's determine the cause of a fire? Police confronted Kimberly with what they had found. Kimberley's is opened very wide seminole county sheriff's detective Jennifer Spears wrote in the investigative report. I observed the color drained from Kimberley's phase and she dropped her head looking down. Kimberley's started fidgeting with her and I thought she was going to be ill. The detective knew this wasn't the first time Kimberly had been involved with a suspicious fire. Her previous husband Denis Richards would later tell authorities that in nineteen ninety-three. Kimberly tried to burn down their house with him inside. His story shared similarities with Robert Boone's. Dennis had fallen asleep and woke up smelling smoke. According to court documents, he found Kimberley's sitting on the living room couch. He hurried to the basement and saw kerosene soaked rag bringing in a Molotov cocktail. He quickly stamped out the fire, so he didn't call nine one one. When he confronted Kimberly, she blamed the fire on an intruder. Now with the second fire and another husband Kimberley's motive for trying to kill Robert Boone was money authorities side. Kimberly was poised to collect two hundred thousand dollars life insurance as the beneficiary if her husband had died in the fire. And meanwhile kimberly was in financial trouble she used a home equity loan and other lines of credit to spend about eighty thousand dollars vehicles. She had a long list of major purchases like buying a swimming pool. New Computers upgraded furniture and house renovations at the family home. She took the kids to Disney and NASCAR and was generous family family members, buying her mom, a trailer and helping others with their bills. Robert testified at trial that she largely kept him in the dark on their finances. He wasn't aware of the growing whole. Kimberly wanted his focus to be watching their children. Although Kimberly, the family breadwinner had recently lost her job at I hire a hiring website similar to monster dot, com. Kimberly had worked as the Maryland business companies bookkeeper, and was in total control of the company's finances even when she relocated to Florida and worked remotely. She wouldn't tell her husband why she had been fired. I hire President Don McFadden said Kimberly embezzled more than seven hundred thousand dollars between June, two, thousand, four and November, two thousand eight. The company CEO accused her of using the company funds to wire money to herself and pay her credit cards or her home, equity lines of credit and mortgages. Her deception was deep as she created faked bender accounts to hide the embezzlement and didn't pay the company's federal withholding taxes for three years. In April, two, thousand, nine Kimberly was arrested on a charge of attempted murder and arson. If convicted, she could face a sentence to life in prison. She declined a thirty year plea deal. She told Nita in one of the calls. Then when I went in front of the judge you can. Take place is off the table, and if you go to trial and lose your, that's the thirty year. She wasn't I might not be able to do anybody ten years anyway and I was like I. Understand that. Then after that she asked him about my four she she goes. You gotta realize before she tried to kill her husband instead of fire. And I'm like you make me some really bad. The financial motive was front and center during Kimberley's second trial that began in October two thousand eleven. This case boils down to money. Greed and self preservation, said assistant state attorney Kelly Joe Hines. Kimberly had to pay her old boss back, which was the motivation to kill Robert Boone, and to collect the two hundred thousand dollars insurance money prosecutors said. The three men Kimberly had angered her ex boss her prior husband deal. Richards and Richard Boone spoke against her during the trial. Her former boss testified kimberly admitted to stealing the money and promised to repay him back. The day after she was fired, she left a voicemail, promising to pay back twenty five thousand dollars immediately and begging for him, not to report her to the authorities. If she went to jail. She would lose her family. She pleaded. Kimberly knew she had a problem and had been seeing a psychologist for two and a half years. The jury could hear her words as the voice mail was played during the trial. But Kimberly never took the stand. Kimberly eventually paid back seventy five thousand dollars, claiming to have a rich benefactor. Her Ex boss said. Dennis Richards described nineteen ninety-three fire, saying he never called the Fire Department or the Police Department at the time his relationship with Kimberley was falling apart, he said. Kimberley's defense argued that there was no evidence. She had smelled the smoke all those years ago. She was lost in her thoughts. It was also strange that Dennis. Never reported the fire to authorities for team said. In, closing arguments, prosecutor Tom Hastings again emphasized the financial gain that would push kimberly to try and kill her husband by giving him a glass of water with San axe to disarm him, and then trying to burn the place down. Quote she started hatching a plan as she was going to raise this money? How was she going to save her own hide? How is she going to cash in? She had I hire breathing down her neck. Robert Boone had told her look. If you've stolen any money, I'm leaving and taking the kids. That's when Kimberly began googling on her password protected work laptop. Would insurance pay for her belongings if a second house burned down? How do you 'cause a House Explosion? How does a fake Christmas tree catch on fire? Kimberly was plotting to drug her husband, and then set fire to the house. Prosecutors, said quote. Robert Boone was going to have to be sacrificed so that this defendant could maintain her liberty. But Kimberley's defense attorney buckner tried to cast out describing Dennis Richards as a disgruntled ex husband and Robert Boone as a liar who may have helped himself to his wife Xanax. Authorities had never determined the cause of the fire, a key argument for the defense. That's your problem in the case. Could the fire have been an accidental fire? Yes, do we know the cause of it? No, no one has been able to come in here and give you a cause. Kimberley's defense attorney said. When it came to stealing money from I hire without a doubt Kimberly was guilty, but the question is. was she going to kill her husband over it? Her defense attorney oust I suggest to you. She loved her husband. The jury deliberated for four hours before returning with their verdict guilty. Just, before her sentencing Robert Boone brought a victim impact statement. He said Kimberly has no remorse for what she's done to him, and he still suffers from tst. Kimberly scoffed about what Robert said later on with Anita. And he wrote about how he wakes up every nurse, still relating of waking up in a burning house. and. He said he had post. Traumatic stress disorder. He has a hard time. Trusting people and I'm thinking you. You weren't waking up in a burning house four months. After the fire before you. Really Yeah. That's what I was thinking with you and you weren't. Right. Exactly went to the NASCAR racing. We bought new furniture. He bought another gun. You know we went every place togethers. So, yeah, you really have post traumatic. Has it now? Because of what happened I, can see that, but why my and fan wake up every night with reliving the horror waking up in a burning building because you're trying to get this is. Kimberly was sentenced to thirty five years in prison. In Two thousand twelve, she was charged with grand theft of one hundred thousand dollars, or more from what she had stolen from her former company. She had been serving in state prison and was ordered back to jail to face the new charge, which is when the regular phone calls with Anita began. Public defender came to see me today. Good. What are you saying? just that they have about he literally five six thousand pieces of paper in my discovery, this little case here. What I. I don't even think I know what what are they charging of over one hundred thousand dollars? Grand Theft. And this is what they use the whole this. To get other takeout. This is the reason. That I wanted to kill rob because I just money. Neither Kimberly Not Anita ever confessed to their crimes against their husbands in their calls, although Kimberly discussed grand theft charge in greater detail in one taped call and admitted to overstepping her bounds. I had. Control over the finances I used to say about one hundred brand out and I took it out and opened up another. The banks for failing, and you have a protected and stuff and I had I was the only with the company that was approved. The US Treasury to go in and do like Money transfers from bank to bank between that account other. And I'm used to bottle. They only had one company credit card, and they were like eight or nine guys on the only fifty thousand limit well, I. Company that pays ninety thousand a month just in marketing Internet marketing you know. They have big expensive. So. I put a lot of stuff on my own credit. Oh. I bought computers. Company, but yeah, and then like the bills would be do and to send a check I just give them my credit card number over the phone. If. They didn't take a lot of my pay by check over the funds but do that. But you know the cash flow things. I had to wait for certain certain. Ways different things and in those times, but anyway such you. Kinda got like in over your head with your own personal credit cards, trying to cover them well, but basically what? I didn't sit down expensive for since I, did so Austin pretty much daily and. You know it was just a matter of. them because they wrote I think the check, but I printed about the Maryland was fun and send them. Down but Anyway, I paid my personal. Credit, Card bills, with the company account. But. Exactly. Eventually Kimberly took a plea deal. In two thousand thirteen added an additional five years to her sentence. In one call the two friends at each other. As it was already clear, they would be spending years in prison. I mean we're looking at thirty. I think. For same time. Young, people in thirty. Years, no one minute remaining. Twenty two. Twenty three. Twenty three. And then. And then you get off like stealing. percent. Eighty five percent. That's what the eighty percent that's for. At least another had to be twenty three years. You'RE GONNA. Get an appeal your. I mean that was the worst case scenario you get worse case scenario. And, then you just think every day you're in there is. They can add is client service. I don't blame you for fighting this thing here. I know. The okay. I got your birthday card, but I don't really get. A few days ago, but The. Thing. I forgive me by Jakarta School. About you. and. Your birthday is on during trials. Thank you for using I see solution. And that's all for today's episode. As always I'd love to know what you think about these cases. Do you think both women were treated? Fairly by or do you agree with their defenses? I'd also love to know what you thought about. The format of this episode was obviously a little different than normal covering two cases side-by-side. Let me know by turning the conversation on Instagram at court junkie by tweeting me at court Chunky Pod, or by emailing me at podcast at court junkie. Dot Com. Today's episode was researched and written by Gabrielle Roussin. If, you'd like to hear these episodes. Ad Free and get access to additional core. CHUNKY EPISODES GO TO COURT JUNKIE DOT COM slash support which will redirect you to my petri on page. Thanks again for listening until next time. It seems like companies are putting cbd in everything nowadays, and if you don't know where to start, I have a recommendation for you. There's a company in Vermont. Bets down to Earth in doing things differently. Son Soil my favorite thing about them. IS THAT SON soil? MAKE CBD oil. That is USDA certified organic. They grow hemp on their farms in Vermont and they never use pesticides, herbicides or GMO's. In fact, most of their CD products have just too simple ingredients, coconut, oil and ten, so you can trust what you're getting. I love their cinnamon CBD oil, which doesn't have that. After taste that a lot of CBD oils can have instead you get a refreshing flavour of cinnamon I just dropped on the back of my tongue usually before I go to bed. In, addition to the fact that they are so transparent about their ingredients, which is awesome. They're also dedicated to being cleaned and sustainable, and they're also surprisingly affordable because they farmed their own hand been stick to simple ingredients, the results is higher quality cbd half the price of other brands. Son Soil makes pure and simple. CBD products at an unbeatable price get thirty percent off your first order by going to sun soil dot com slash junkie. That's S. U. N. S.. O. L. 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"Lee began today as meditation with the few sipping exercises to remind us. A little treat can go a long way so pick up your mcafee. Iced coffees close. Your eyes and deep seven and deep satisfaction out. Take a treat retreat at mcdonald's right now get mcafee iced coffee and any size and any flavor for just ninety nine cents until seven. Am price of participation may vary sorta and scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences listener discretion is advised. He slid down the blood on the floor. And i knelt down. I level to him. I yelled you motherfucker. And i looked in the eye and i slit his throat. Hey this is season. Seven episode one. Seventy five of sword and scale show that reveals that the worst monsters real but we're getting dangerously close to the end of the season here. We're gonna be eight years in believe it or not. Actually we already are eight years in. It's absolutely unbelievable That that's the case but it's true. We're starting eighth season in january. In the meantime we have one more regular episode coming out. Episode one seventy six and then were taking a break. Of course there will be a episode after that. So if you're plus member there'll be a final episode on december twentieth and then we'll be back. We'll be back real early in the year. Starting january third on plus in january tenth on the regular feed. So don't worry we won't be gone that long in the meantime if you haven't heard about plus please check it out. If you're a fan of the show starts at just five bucks a month we have native and android apps available for you. It's the best way to listen to certain scale and you get all the plus episodes a lot of people. Don't even know this but we have over. Eighty plus episodes available for an hour in length usually full length episodes. Just like the regular show. But you won't hear them anywhere else subscribed to plus starting at just five bucks a month at sword and scale dot com slash plus and help a brother out all right. I think you're going to enjoy this. One of those episodes that are twisty turny and you don't know which way they're going and then they slap in face with an m night sharma on twist. This is going to be one of them. So hold your butts real tight open. Palm them if you will. Let's go there's almost always a rise in break ins during the holidays. It's why simply safe home. Security is having a huge holiday sale forty percent off any simplisafe system and free security camera recently. Us news and world report called it the best home security of twenty twenty so whether you're traveling or staying put for the holidays check out the forty percent off plus free security camera deal before it ends this week. Simply safe is one of the easiest systems to install. You don't need professional installation. 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Men clark fredericks woke up to a blinding light and a brain piercing confused days. He thought you absolve god. Clark you finally done it. Having been abusing drugs alcohol around the clock for months. He was convinced that he had a stroke heart attack in the middle of the night and now he had gone glide to calm himself. Clark took a deep breath and closed his eyes when you open them. The blinding light was still there. He raised his arm to shield his face and in the process he cracked himself in the head with the hard rigid caste that was wrapped around his hand. The blow to the head must have knocked something loose because his vision started to return that along with it an uneasy feeling washing over him. Clark look down at the bedroom floor expecting to see the familiar old carpet but there was no carpet. This floor was now dirty speckled linoleum. He thought to himself. This isn't making any sense. Clark's surveyed the room. The painted sheet rock that normally surrounded him was god now. His walls were cold. Concrete blocks at his bedroom door was no longer varnished. Wood instead it was made of steel on it. A narrow sliver of a window ran barely two feet long most confusing of all in the corner of ceiling. A camera pointed directly. Adam it slow blinking. Red light suggested that someone was watching his every move then. Clark looked down at himself. He was not in his own bed. He was lying on a metal cot dressed in an orange jumpsuit. Like a wave rolling to shore. Clark's memory started coming back. He remembered what had happened the day before and he knew where he was county jail locked in a cell on suicide watch with the threat of life in prison looming over him as he sat up the cast on his arm reminded him of the surgery he'd had the night before to repair the severed ligaments and tendons in his left hand and then he noticed that someone had scrawled words on a nearby wall. It read quote. Kill me and just want to die. This was a sediment that clark shared with the unknown author. Clark look down at his injured hand and noticed that the prison guards had forgotten to take away the medical sling. That with is cast then. He looked at the air vet on the wall and realized that this was his chance a chance to end all the pain. If you could just find a way to fasten this linked to the air vent and connected to his own neck it would all be over. Clark staggered to his feet as he prepared to end his own life he asked self. How did i get here. What could i have done differently to save myself from ending up in this horrible place the small sleepy tailed of stillwater. New jersey is the opposite of what most people think of when they think of new jersey only an hour drive from newark international airport in about ninety minutes from new york city this rural farm. how it offers. It's nearly four thousand one hundred residents it quiet backwards lifestyle hiking boating fishing camping and lake swimming or a few the activities that stillwater residents enjoy. There are even a significant subgroup of this community that takes pride in their pickup trucks. Listens to kenny. Rogers goes deer hunting. Watches professional wrestling spits tobacco. A small community of country folk nestled in the shadow of the most famous city in the world. Still wearing jersey is a town in the north west corner of the state in. Sussex county is predominantly rural area. You still have your some commuters that head east towards the city. every day. they braved the traffic but by and large. It's like a very peaceful small community where everybody knows everybody else. This is how he ryan a retired new jersey state police crime scene investigator and he's right. Stillwater is peaceful so peaceful in fact that it doesn't even have a police department. All reported crime in the area is handled by the state police when you have the occasion to be called up here to investigate a violent crime and murder. It's rare it's very rare and it's also big news because it just doesn't happen very often violent crime and murder are extremely rare in the small town of stillwater. It does unfortunately still happen on the morning of june thirteenth. Twenty twelve who tenant ryan and his team of investigators would be called to the scene of a homicide in this otherwise peaceful residents like any other crime scene uniformed officers out front. There's detectives milling around starting exchange notes. One of my detectives was there form. My arrival and he met me in the driveway and together. We walked up in. The first thing i remember was looking at the front door. There was a screen door and screened or had been propped. Open a lot of screeners. That retractable of air sprocket. And you can slide a metal piece over to open the door. Were the first things. I remembered was. That door was open but that sprocket which was on the top of the door was covered in blood. In addition to the blood covered door sprocket there were also large droplets of blood on the front porch and bloody footprints leading away from the home. We rounded the corner to look into door. It wasn't a very big home. The victim was laying on the floor between a chair. Like a recliner chair time and the television which was still on. It looked as if he was wearing a bathrobe and there was a substantial amount of blood at this point in his career. Lieutenant ryan had been investigating crime scenes for more than sixteen years and it worked in at least a hundred homicide cases. This wasn't the first time he'd walked into a house. Full of blood splatter but there was something especially interesting about this particular crime scene teaching crime scene as well crimson work one of the things we always tell people is when you walk into a crime scene. Your obvious first reaction is is human nature is to notice. What is there okay. There's there's there's the other thing that we had to. Tokyo sometimes try to make note of what is not and what was not. There was any sign of disturbance aside from the dead body on the floor. Of course there was nothing in the house touched. It was immediately noticeable anywhere that was out of place. Whatever happened front door. went right to this. Individual killed them. And last for lieutenant ryan. It was immediately apparent that whoever came into this house the night before had one purpose in mind to kill and there was something else as look over the body a little further wanted to look at the wounds specifically the victim had been stabbed more than twenty times mostly in the chest and there was another wound that was very telling in addition to multiple puncture wounds to the chest there had been an incision across the neck and i had seen this many times before this one one thing i noticed immediately about this was the debt. The individual have been cut very deep almost down to the phone meaning the spine the spine deep incision to the victim's neck and the otherwise undisturbed. Thome were clues that indicated something important about this murder crime scene. Work when you see something like this where nothing else in. The house is touched that. There's nothing searched. Nothing appears to be stolen or missing. You can't help but thinking without knowing who did this. This is personal. And i remember saying to one of the other detectives. They're said whoever came through the door came for him so who was him. Who was the dead victim on the floor. Look at first as we look to see the face of convicted. Recognize the states. The face that lieutenant ryan recognized was that sixty year old retired police. Lieutenant dennis peg. Dennis tag was employed by the sussex. County sheriff's office and he rose in his career to the rank of lieutenant in work in jail. I didn't know him personally. But i i've seen in many many times but He seemed to have had a very good career in law enforcement within the corrections community before he retired probably to twenty five years in addition to being a respected former police. Lieutenant dennis pag was also a beloved member of the stillwater. Community was a long time resident of the area. He'd been involved in it really quite a few things in his life and in his career and by all accounts in the eyes of so many people in the community he was just star citizen. He volunteered with children extensively. Right in the northwestern corner of the stadium section of the appalachian trail that runs through advert short section. But he was involved in that in something called trailer angel where they would maintain the trail. He was involved in bird watching societies and the audubon societies and things of that nature. You've also involved in the town's historical society. It seemed like everybody was a lifelong resident up here. New dennis pack they called him. Denny danny peg and a lot of people is A pillar of community and they always spoke very highly of him despite his many contributions and prominent role in the community. Someone clearly had it in for good old denny peg and it was now the job of lieutenant ryan and the new jersey state police to find out who had brutally murdered him and why earlier that same morning just a few hours before police would discover dennis's body forty nine year old. Holly auto had a worrying phone conversation with her mother who lived in stillwater. I my mother every single morning. And i called her that morning. Just checking in and she was not herself and i could tell something was terribly wrong and i said mom what is wrong. And she's like just get up here right away and i go. Is something wrong with you. And she goes get up right away. I don't wanna talk on the phone. So i jumped in my car and i drove up to my mother's house for most of us. This would be very alarming. Phonecall imagine your mother indicated that something awful had happened and no matter how hard you press her. She refused to talk about it on the phone. Like many of us would. Holly hurried to her. Mother's home as remind raced with every conceivable in terrifying possibility. So i arrived at my mother's house. And i could tell she was very very distraught not herself at all and she said. Come out on the deck. I wanna talk to you. So she brought me out onto the deck and she said your brother killed dennis. Pack last night learning that your sibling had killed. Someone is bad enough but for holly it was even worse just like everyone else in stillwater. She knew dennis peg. So what i remember. Dennis tag child is he was a family friend. He was hurt our house for meals. He fronted my parents even at one time. He had a car accident and he wound up. Dang at our house and silly got back on his feet. Pretend that your mother has just told you that your brother or sister has murdered a friend of the family a friend that also happened to be a retired police officer. But would you do. Would you turn them in right away or try to protect them and agree to keep their crime secret so after my mother had the conversation on the decky said i wanna show you your brother and he was sound asleep and i could tell. His hand was cut very very badly and i told my mother go. She needs to seek medical attention and she said absolutely not. We're not going to the hospital. At i said I am not going to be part of any of this. This is naturally severe and this is a crime scene. And i'm not going to be privy to this that this point hollywood leave her mother's home and call someone. She trusted. diane. How diane was holly's holistic healer and spiritual counselor and over the phone. Holly explained to diane at her brother killed dennis peg and she was on her way to diane store at tie in store. She said we need to call the police and just a wellness check because maybe tennis isn't that maybe he didn't kill them and at least if he's still alive and get him seeking medical attention so diane had placed the call to police and asked up to a wellness check on but fortunately dennis was dead and it was this call that would lead police to the body. Naturally after their discovery police had some questions for diane. a call. diane. Mac want it now how she knew to a wellness. Diana's little choice but to tell police what holly had told her that she would give them hollies. Brothers name clark. Frederick's on this job that the name surfaced the individual was potentially involved in. This was a gentleman by the name. Clark fredericks fredericks was a name must-listen to caucus family in the area. And although i did not know. His brother dennis pag. The fredericks family had a good reputation in the town of stillwater. And for police it came as a shock that anyone in that family could be involved in a murder nonetheless. After speaking with dianne. And learning that holly's brother was the killer. The new jersey state police made the short drive from dennis. Pegues home to the frederick's residents. I knew that the family lived close by as the heading over there to see if he was home. We did not know whether or not he had weapons. So there was a perimeter set up and they ordered him out of the house asked him to come show his hands. There were weapons pointed at him as he exited house you sold to put his hands up and he complied complied with everything said. They put him on the ground. They took him into custody without any incident and they brought him to the state police barracks in sussex new jersey. Not long after clark was in custody. He exercised his fifth amendment right to remain silent and refused to speak with police. He did however make one admission while be arrested. He told an officer that dentist peg quote got what was coming to him. But otherwise clark didn't say a thing a little bit anxious to find out what the hell's what would trigger him to knew. This was the million dollar question. Why would clerk fredericks murder family friend. Dennis peg who even was. Clark fredericks clark was. She was very sick when he was young. He was born with a whole has heart and he had heart surgery when he was six years old and that was a very traumatic for our family because doing a major open heart surgery especially on a young child. It was a big deal. I it's become much more commonplace now but back then in the sixties it was a very big operation so he came home. He seemed to be doing quite right. And i just noticed. As clark got older he tests. I don't know something changed within him. And he just could not find his niche in life being a sister holly understandably talks about her brother with kid gloves. But if we're gonna be honest clark. Problems went far beyond being able to find his niche in life in high school. Clark didn't perform poorly. But he also didn't excel while maintaining a c. average. He spent a lot of free time smoking weed and drinking clark graduated from kidney regional high school in nineteen eighty-four during the summer before his freshman year at college. He was arrested for drinking and driving. Clark studied business at northeastern university in boston there. He discovered a love for cocaine and spent his weekends and holidays as a blackout drunk during his alcohol and drug abuse. Clark did graduate in nineteen eighty nine and after earning his business degree he returned home to the little town of stillwater graduated college. He lived at home with my mother and father and i was married with children and he just couldn't seem to find a lasting relationship and as time went on he just kept getting angrier and angrier. And it just seemed like you know towards the end. He was totally spiraling out of control. Never knew why he was in such a spiral after college. Clark did spiral badly through much of his remaining twenties. Clark wet unemployed and in his thirties. He began working. At his brother's automotive center. Repairing and installing eighteen wheeler truck and loader tires clark would remain at this job for sixteen years so much for that pricey business degree while working for his brother. Clark bought himself a harley. Davidson motorcycle and hooked up with like minded bikers in sussex county new jersey biker. Gangs are more prominent than you might expect that while this isn't always the case. The culture of these gangs can often involve illegal drugs strip clubs and a whole lot of alcohol abuse and it was this culture. That clark chose to associate with through his thirties in his forties. Things only got worse as clark developed a pain pill addiction began using heroin and eventually walked away from his brothers automotive center at age forty six and at the time of his arrest. He was living at his mother's house. Now clark sat in a holding cell charged with the murder of a retired police lieutenant and he was refusing to speak with investigators unable to get answers from about what had happened. And why he might have murdered. Dennis peg police turned to clark sister. Holly and his mother fredericks so. Then i was brought down to the state. Police they entered. May they wanted to know what i knew about what happened and i basically just told them story. The my mother called me in the morning and told me what happened and my mother when she was interviewed she had mentioned. Clark was with reynolds She thought that he was an accomplice with clark. Forty-seven year old. Bob reynolds was a known. Friend of clark's and after learning from clark's mother. That reynolds was possibly an accomplice to the murder. Police brought him in for questioning. After some initial pushback reynolds rolled over and help to paint a clearer picture of what had happened at dennis pegues home. He would tell police that he met up with clark the night before and clark told him that dentist peg was number. One on clark's hitlist reynolds would go on to tell police together. They drove to dennis his home and when they arrived. Clark attack dennis stabbing him with a hunting knife several times before eventually slitting his throat at this point police had collected a lot of evidence against clark. They had his own admission. That dennis scott what he had coming to him they had his mother statement and now they had a witness to the murder bob reynolds but the question remained. Why why would clark do this to understand. The motive in this crime need to know a little more about clark and his relationship with dennis pag. I grew up in paul and skill lake. Which is in stillwater and living at a lake community as a kid. It was fantastic because back then in the seventies as soon as you could learn to ride your bicycle. You're told to go out and play and be back at dinnertime. This is clark fredericks describing. What he remembers of his childhood saw myself and all the kids at the lake community would go down to the lake. There was basketball courts. Tennis courts are as jungle gyms. There was the beach in the lake. And you could fish and skip brock's all those activities were wonderful and you're just told to be going to have fun and if you came home dirty that meant new You had a good time. Clark's early years were apparently happy ones as he enjoyed the freedom of playing in a small lake community. And as you heard earlier. Dennis pag was good friends. With clark's parrots. My earliest recollection is that dennis peg was always around our family. I can't pinpoint the first time i met him. But from age five six he was around our family and he became entrenched with our family by my older brother's involvement in the boy scouts. I had an older brother and had a next door neighbor. Who is my brother's best friend. And the two of them joined the boy scouts and from their involvement in the boy scouts their scoutmaster dennis peg befriended our family. Not only was dennis close with the frederick's but he was also someone that clark admired guinness was a sort of hero figure of mine next to my father. I respected him. The most joyous lieutenant in the local sheriff's department he wore a badge. You always carried a gun. He was a big hulking man and he was just someone that idolized looked up to clerks. Childhood was one bat anyone might have had loving parents. He lived in a beautiful lake community. He was free to go bike riding play with his friends and he had a strong role model in local police. Officer dennis peg clarkson poised for a healthy and nurturing early adolescence but that would start to change in the summer of nineteen seventy. I was born with a whole hour and my parents were so proud of me. Surviving open heart surgery that they would have me lift my shirt and show all their friends. The scar i had and their friends would all have to give me a quarter this summer of my seventh year of life. Everyone had been outside in the backyard. And i came upstairs to get glasses ice tea to watch. Tv for a few minutes. There was a knock at the door. And i heard genesis loud booming voice. Say hello anyone home bounded about a my chair all excited to see him and he asked me whereas everybody. I said they're all out back and he said what are you doing. I said i'm watching. Tv's great let's is it and he sat down on our couch and he's i got a quarter on me little buddy how. 'bout you show me your scar without hesitation. I lifted my shirt. He's looking at my scar. And he gives me a quarter. I've never seen a startling yours album. I give you a dollar and you let me touch. And i said short tennis size. I'm holding my shirt up to my chin. Dennis takes his two'mini fingers and starts rubbing them up and down my open heart surgery. Scar any said is your stomach source from the surgery. At all. And i said no dennis not at all. They said listen. This is our little secret. Don't you tell anybody that. I touched your scar. You can't keep a secret. We won't be able to be friends. And i said short then i can keep a secret. They said all right. I'm going back to see the rest of the him in this particularly creepy and brief interaction. Dennis peg had planted. What would become a secrecy. Pact between himself and a young impressionable. Clark a pact. That would only grow stronger. As clark grew older time. He touched my open. Heart surgery scar and made me swear to secrecy. I wouldn't tell anybody. It seemed that every encounter. We had was another secret that he would ask me to key. He would come by and his truck. And i would go running over to him and he would say hop in my truck little buddy and he had a six pack of budding. They'd be like here have a beer and again he would be like. This has to be just a secret between you and me. And i'm thinking in my mind. How unbelievably cool. It was to drink a beer with a sheriff's officer at age nine. The last thing i wanted to do was ruined nat and tell anybody about it. Dennis had begun giving nine year old. Clark alcohol testing the limits of clark's ability to keep secrets and it wouldn't stop there. One day said a friend of his had just bought a house and they were clearing out getting ready for the front move in and there was old. Farmhouse was all excited said. I opened up the joys of the desk and it was filled with nude pictures. I brought some of them with me and i was all excited to see naked women and he took out a bunch of polaroid pictures to be at least a dozen. It was all close. Ups of penises. And i said tone. Then where's the naked women as like. Oh those must have been in the other tour. I said i said. I wanna i wanna see the naked women these like all right. Op bring those next on and again. This was a secret to keep this on on an aunt. Seemed like every counter was a senior. And unfortunately i was great at keeping secrets back then. Dennis was clark's scout leader. And if you've been keeping up with the latest headlines about boy scouts of america you probably have some sense of where the story is going a fair warning. It's about to get worse a lot worse. Dennis said to me that he was my mentor. And that if i had any questions with the cub scouts or boy scouts were any of the requirements that i should come to him and even helped me and one of the requirements is that you have to learn how to tie knots and i said to dentist one day down at the dam that i needed help learning how to tie knots and this was around age. Eleven a. said all right. Let's get your bicycle throat in the back of my truck and below to my house in have a beer and i'll teach time nights. I said great dan. Let's go and we went over there and this time instead of just giving me beer. He gave me a tumbler. Full of blackberry brandy had been chopped. The brandy if you've never tasted it. Blackberry brandy is sweet with an almost coughs like aftertaste. it's a fortified wine and can contain anywhere between thirty to sixty percent alcohol. It's also pretty easy to get drunk off of especially if you're an eleven year old and some sick peto police officer is making you chug it. He said to me. I wanna play a game review and he called it bumping logs and he got up any excuse themselves to his bedroom for a few minutes. Came back yeah. It looked like he had stuck something into its shorts. Sticking out basis stand up. They started tolling ni into him poking me with bubbas in his shorts and he said to me. Your log isn't ready yet. we're bumping laws. But your log isn't ready yet. Sit down on the chair. And i'm gonna get you ready. And i sat down on his kitchen. Share edison closure is. I'm gonna get you ready. And i closed my eyes. And in a flash polled my shorts down and began performing oral sex on the and i opened my eyes against his wishes and he had his penis in his hand jerking off as performing oral sex. There isn't a word in the english language or any language for that matter. Disgusting enough to describe a man that would do this to an eleven year old boy as best he could. Clark tried to put this traumatic event out of his mind. But unfortunately dennis wasn't finished with clark dennis for a few weeks. I devised the plot that he needed. I helping hand weeks. He was telling me about needing help. This is the summer after. I graduated elementary school six great and he found me down at the lake one day and he said let's go over to my house and i said sure i have been back to his house since he performed oral sex going back to the house. I was very anxious. I didn't know how to tell this guy. No still wanted to trust him. And we got there and i remember. His house was boiling hotter inside than it was outside. He had me drink to glass tumblers of blackberry brandy. He gave me a couple of budweiser's on top. And i was instantly blitzed and his plot that he wanted my help with less us to his spare bedroom from it being so hot and his house he said let's take our short sloth and our shirts saw any slipped my short saw and my shirt off and he got behind me. It had been in a bear hug cycling. Move my arms. I felt like i was in a straight jacket and he began raping me. I screamed in pain. I screamed fear and when he was raping the felt like there was no god. I felt completely alone with just this evil at t raking. No one heard my screams. No one hurt my cries. Nobody came to help this little twelve year. Old boy and i cried and i screamed in this animal. This lieutenant of the local sheriff's department this scoutmaster whispers might year as a prying and screaming. Just another minute just another minute. If you don't already have enough contempt for this rapist. Piece of shed. You're about to after what had been the longest. Minute of clark's life. Dennis peg insured that his incomprehensibly disgusting act was kept a secret as allen steed as cleaned me. Up a savvy down opened another beer for me. Dennis had a dog which is called the coon dog. Dogs have a long drawn out. Bark and dennis is dog heard my cries and had started howling and would not stop and tennis court the dog into the kitchen where i sat and he began beating with his giant fists. This poor dog and he beat the dog compete the dog in. I'm screaming denison and crime to please stop. 'cause i still be sponsored for that dog because it was only parking because of my cries and dennis beat the dog unconscious in front of me whether lived there died after that moment. I have no idea into me that felt worse than the rate that just occurred because i felt spots for that dog and dentist told me if you open your mouth about what just occurred here. That's what will happen till after watching. Dennis beat a dog unconscious or perhaps to death with his bare hands. Twelve year old. Clark did as he was told he kept silent. Once you've had enough of murder and mayhem and destruction violence. You need a pallet cleanser something fund that will get your mind off of all the horror we talk about here. 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Download it today and see what all the buzz about the summer of nineteen seventy-eight twelve year. Old clark frederick was raped by his boy scout leader. Dennis peg after raping clark. Dennis beat a dog unconscious in front of this recently graduated sixth grader terrifying him into silence was a cop does betrayed me. There were no organizations back then that dealt with abuse children you only wants to go to. The cops in dennis was a cop. That avenue was completely closed off. I didn't know who turned to do. I mind told me you're gonna keep the silent. You're not gonna talk about s. So i to go about life as normal as i could. In addition to the fear that dennis had instilled in clark there was also the added psychological factor. That dennis was someone. Clark looked up to in cases like this where the abuser is a mentor or respected by the victim. The victim often blame themselves for what happened thinking. They must have seduced their abuser. Somehow as clark held onto this trauma feeling like had nowhere to turn it again looking for ways to dull. His pain almost immediately. After dennis rate man aged twelve afghan smoking marijuana on a weekly basis the thought of putting any drug into my system. When i was in the elementary school was completely foreign to me. I had so much pain in her. Shame thoughts that just forced through my mind. And i could not shutdown when smoking weed wasn't enough clark turned to the next best thing. As i went to high school. It became easier to find out the ninety switch from smoking. Marijuana drinking as clark went through high school he found that drinking his pain away wasn't working either so he looked for something else but escape gotten accepted into northeastern university in boston mass and i couldn't weighing in to get up there and get away from everything in store. I realized in college that i had to apply myself. I couldn't abandoned. I study slipping. I couldn't ice. And i didn't want to not do well in college so i applied myself and i had college down to a science. I could go to school and do studies all night long. Four nights a week and that would allow me to be a blackout drunk. The other three nights a week. And i tried cocaine for the first time in college and i absolutely loved as you know. Clark graduated from college in nineteen eighty nine. But why you don't know yet is that he graduated with honors. Even though clark was abusing alcohol and cocaine he still managed to do well academically and this opened a rare door of opportunity when i graduated professors. Who loved me at recommended. Me to johnson and johnson as an excellent candidate for johnson and johnson is a massive multinational corporation that develops medical equipment pharmaceuticals and consumer goods. It's headquartered in new brunswick new jersey and is one of the largest corporations in the united states. The typical executive at johnson and johnson makes about one hundred and seven thousand dollars a year two weeks before i graduated. I got a call from johnson johnson. Asking if i'd like to come in for an interview. And i blew a loss and that would be a precursor for the rest of my twenties child. Sex abuse victims as they reach adulthood making commitment to anything can be especially difficult. Beat a career romantic relationship or a simple friendship these types of interpersonal commitments can cause a sense of fear in the victim as they worry that their abuse will be exposed. I couldn't commit to a career. I couldn't commit to a relationship because being in anything long term made me feel trapped and trapped. Is exactly how. I felt that dennis takes house so i sabotaged career after career. After passing a barbara -tunities through his twenties clark would enter his thirties alone and unemployed and then begin working at his brother's automotive center. Yes i wanted to come work for him and not having anything else to do at the time. I said sure. I bought a harley. I had hoped up with a bunch of guys who were like myself driving harleys some who liked distort cocaine all like to drink and we would spend our time drinking doing coke. I was living the life as fast as hard as i possibly could. And i constantly trying to outrun. My taint. Clark went through his thirties at breakneck speed. All the while abusing drugs and alcohol to numb the pain caused by his rapists. Dennis pag and when he arrived at his forty s he crashed going into my forties. I've learned since that those who have suffered childhood peaks suffer from ptsd. I didn't know i suffered from. Ptsd but in my forties my ptsd kicked in and i fell into huge depression. Late onset. depression can be found to be one of the most common long-term symptoms among child sex abuse victims after years of negative self thought victims usually develop extreme feelings of worthlessness resulting in a deep state of depression in their forties or fifties having no coping skills facing this huge depression every day. I found myself replacing coffee in my coffee mug with wine. And that's how. I would start my day driving to work with a alcoholic beverage thinking that would cheer me up when simply trying to get through. My day was to existing. My mind told me a little bit of cocaine. Just to get us through our day would be so bad site began doing that. For clark. Alcohol and cocaine were no longer limited to his off time in recreation. They become part of his everyday routine and one day while working at his brother's automotive center he herniated disc in his back. I want to see a doctor. And he described me thirty pills thirty pills in a few days. And i felt like superman on i felt like eighteen years old again and i called him up after four days and i said dot does pills worked. I need more. He's like that was way too. Quick goes prescribed your ten more. But that's it well. Ten more wasn't gonna do much for me. That was simply unacceptable. I didn't go doctor shopping for my pain pills. I went out on the street and thus began a six year long. Pain pill. Addiction throughout clark's life. Seem that one bad habit turned into twenty more at the age of forty five to ten months before the murder of dennis. Pag clarke had an unexpected running with someone from his past stopped at a quick check deli. dna cup of coffee in cosby island. Making my coffee in the front door opens automatically look up incomes walking dennis bag. Dennis sees in calls out to me like we're best friends in the world clark. This is not the first time. I've seen denison cincy rates run into dentists throughout the years. But it's thirty years. Plus city raped me. It had probably been ten years. Since i last encountered where the what was different this time trailing in behind him coming through the door was a young boy about the rates that young bully called dennis. The scene nickname assisted. I call him when i was. We see the nickname that clark understandably wouldn't say is denny. I heard that instantly panic attack. And i sell myself starting up like i was paralyzed. That's what happened to me when our child in dennis lesson is that nice folks. I became paralyzed which sear. That's also what i hated pumped myself said. I didn't do more when he touched me. Killed me all these years. I find here. That same feeling is coming upon me and dennis starting to make his way towards me. Shake my hand to pat on the back to hug me who knows. What is it about child rapists that. Pretend like they're best buds with their victims when their victims become adults before he gets that coffee island. I leave everything behind past lumping him on my way out. I jumped in my truck. I beat out of the parking lot and drive down the road. I start cursing. I start punching. My steering wheel starts fitting in my truck. All the pain from my childhood is now ripped open seeing a young boy enough them knowing fain awaits that young boy that awaited main as it already happened. I thought is it to happen. Today is going to happen tomorrow. Crumbled after that encounter that dined after this run with dennis clarke crossed the final threshold into the world of drugs and he began doing something he had promised himself he would never do. He started using heroin soon after he quit his job. And on the morning of june twelfth twenty twelve the day before being arrested for murder but employed alcoholic drug addict and child abuse victim. Clark fredericks awoke in his bed. As i noticed. I had left a huge four inch. Line coca my dresser. I started that up. I made a line for the kitchen where i made orange juice. I got back into bed. Put the tv on the news. It was the start of the jerry. Sandusky molestation trial in case. You don't know jerry. Sandusky is a former penn state football coach twenty eleven he was arrested and charged with over fifty counts of sexual abuse of underage boys over a fifteen year period. His trial was covered extensively on television and in two thousand twelve. He was sentenced to between thirty and sixty years in prison. I saw him get out of his lawyers car when he did. All i could see was dennis back a yelled curses at the tv. I wrapped my arms around myself. Hugging myself can just rocking back and forth by bed. After seeing a particularly smug jerry sandusky on tv clark left his home and spent day drinking hopping from one local bar to another later that night. I stopped at an italian restaurant. And i was having a glass of wine at the bar. I noticed sitting at a table was a guy who had burned me on a business deal years earlier. And i hadn't encountered him since and i went up to his table we had words he called me to fuck off. I left that restaurant fuming. I was supposed to meet a friend of mine at my house. Who was going to power-wash and stain the citing of my house. And he was coming over to drop off the equipment. That friend's name was up. Reynolds bob reynolds arrived at clark's home that evening after unloading the power wash equipment. The two of them had a friendly conversation. And clark's kitchen over a few lines of coke and many glasses of wine. I told him about my encounter with the guy who had burned me business. Deal and bob said to be that guy has to be number one on your hit list and before i could stop the words coming out of my mouth for the first time in my life. I revealed to someone about the most station of rape by suffered as a child. The words is the leak. Came out of my mouth actually. He's number two. The scumbag who raped me as a child is number one after hearing this bob had a few questions once he got past confirming. That clark was being serious. Bob ask clark who had raped him and where they lived. Bob's decision or mine. We both decided that we would go confront dennis. I told bob what a gun fanatic. He was and i said to protect ourselves. We ought to take something. I gave up a steak knife out of the kitchen drawer. And i went into my bedroom in under my bed was my hunting knife from when i was twelve years old as it. Turns out. clark's. Hunting knife had sentimental value as a christmas gift. One year. dennis tag on me. A stone and oil is sharpening kit. A sitting at our house over a glass of eggnog. Dennis taught me how to get the perfect blade on my hunting knife. And that's the one thing i did. Throughout my entire life was keep that nice for the perfect glade armed with a perfectly sharpened hunting knife. Clark got into bob's van and together. They drove the dennis pegues home. Dennis fig was the county the badge gone authority. A pillar of the community will us when he met me. I was just a boy boy. A law it's mild. Yes komen you along. I was just a after leaving dennis. His house that night clark returned home now a murderer. He was convinced that his life was over to clark woke up his mother to say goodbye and told her what he had done that. He swallowed some pain pills and went to sleep next morning. I opened my eyes bed. I couldn't believe what i had done. Doug my fingers into my skull. I said clark you fucking idiot fucking idiot just flushed the rest of your life down the toilet. It is fucking over bro. Might might which had complete control of me and my mind said if we can just get some drugs and alcohol in our system. We can come up with a game plan to get out of this and like a lunatic. I called out to my empty beds. You buy a great. Let's do it like most mornings after getting out of bed cork went into his kitchen and drink a glass of wine and i looked out the kitchen window in. My road was littered with police cars. I said you gotta be fucking kidding me. They're here already and it was at that moment where it hits you that this is really happen. Your life is really over. You're not getting out from under this. It's over the state. Police arrested clark and brought him to their barracks in sussex new jersey where they placed him in a holding cell. One of the first people to walk into the holding excel was lieutenant howard ryan as i opened the door. He was sitting on a bench. And one of the first things i noticed was just kinda hell loss. He looked in addition to noticing clerks. Demeanor lieutenant ryan. Also noticed. That clark's left. Hand was badly injured so he called the medics to treat it as a medical people were working on his hand. It was almost a relief on his face like he had done something he needed to do. Or said something needed to say. I just looked at him and there was something that hit me mad. Hunch i said look we have you. I got you six ways from sunday. Your blood is all over that house. You don't know me so you really know these trust me. But i'm gonna tell you something. And he said you're about to get pulled out of this holding cell and taken into a room to be interrogated by my detectives and i'm telling you right now i want you to take your fifth amendment rights and remained silent. It's not very often that a murder suspect would get that kind of valuable advice from the police lieutenant that just arrested him. Nonetheless clark did as he was told. He exercised his right to remain silent and was eventually brought to a hospital to receive surgery on his hand. After my surgery and i was taken to the sussex county jail they place me in a suicide cell and they had me in the right spot. Because i just wanted to die and i just wanted to find a way to kill myself. Clark contemplated various ways to kill himself. Police continue their investigation but the basic facts of the murder were complicated. The victim however was another story as in any homicide when you are looking for suspects you also have to look into the victims. Clark fredericks was kind of an open book. Dentist peg story was something if just the general processing of his home. We seized his computer. You have one guess. What do you think police found on. Dentist pegues computers in addition to countless photos of naked children and a web history of repeated visits to child exploitation sites. Police also found suggestive photos of dennis's fifteen year old. Great nephew dylan peg. And as news of clark's arrest became public. The state police began receiving phone calls. Phone calls from other victims. That had been abused by dennis. Pag a lot of people came forward. You had multiple boy scouts. That had been assaulted by him. You had former inmates. Dennis had this this kind of bizarre singer. A young male may get out of jail. He would offer them. Oh you know what you stay with me. Take it back on your feet type thing. These were normally young. Men addicted to drugs and dennis said he would give them a place to live in his mentoring turned into molested and it was even worse than that. We found out that there were several cases through the years of suicide that occurred as a result of this case after discovering the photos. A fifteen year. Old dylan peg on dennis computer. Police soon learned that at age. Twenty one dylan at killed himself and there were several other likely victims of dennis. Pag that committed suicide. All sides suggested that. Dennis had at minimum a three decade reign of terror which begs the question. How did you get away with what he was doing for. So long the think to yourself. How in the hell did this happen. And the truth of the matter is dennis was sequestered on a hill. Kept it himself except for his hunting grounds wherever that may be he spread himself out in all these different organizations and what they actually were were his hunting grounds looking. Dennis's obituary that somebody wrote for maybe a failure. I don't really know literally everything mentioned in there as well. Stellar pillar community was was his hunting ground. Dennis john peg sixty eight of stillwater died wednesday june thirteenth twenty twelve at home. Mr peg was a distinguished member of the new york. Police department honor legion. He also was a member and chaplain of the newton. American legion post eighty six a life member and former president and vice president of the stillwater historical society an honorary citizen of boys town a former member of the sierra club and the common deers club for disabled american veterans. For twenty years he was a former member of spartak. he want. he's a past president of the knowlton. A past president of the kettani lions club a former treasurer of the north warren. Lions club a former member of sparta. A former county committee men a fifteen year member of the republican national committee a member of moose international a life member of the national cathedral in washington. Dc a forty-five year member of the national geographic society and a former member of the american red cross association a longtime supporter of the boy scouts of america. Mr peg was involved with the woodbridge troop they former scoutmaster for troop eighty-three stillwater. a pass. Scoutmaster and assistant scoutmaster of troop eighty six as well as the committee. Chairman and a former suspects morris council advancement committee chairman. This is just a section of his obituary next to it. They happy photo of him waving. Dennis was of file. He was a predator he was on your children and he left a nasty path of destruction behind him. And the interesting thing was an when you say this you gotta you almost qualify it. But he was good at it. I know that sounds like a horrible thing to say being good at this but he was skilled and hiding what his issue was. people like. That are probably one of the greatest dangers to our society. Obviously dennis was dangerous. Very dangerous was behavior is far from is located in fact dennis was a textbook pedophile. They will endear themselves to you. They will endear themselves to the child's family look for weaknesses specific single parents and things like that where apparently need additional help. The other thing they do is they put him intentionally. Put themselves in places where they're going to be around children. Olympic games with casual contact kings with some wrestling around touching and desensitizing child wants the assaults began in dentist dentist then it becomes the threat of violence and again. We're going back to children's so they're so impressionable and they're so frightened. Oftentimes they don't say anything it's the torment and a threat living under threat of violence or death. Afterwards if you open your mouth now there's some of these people don't get get over it and that's why we saw suicide as a result of this and you know as a law enforcement officer as an adult as a parent. It pisses you off because you think not just the police but in general in our jobs to safeguard children the wolf into your neighborhood and he knows basically untendered for thirty years. He's destroying a bunny. He's just destroying lives. Dennis infiltrated an absurd amount of community programmes many of them involving children and even though he used his badge to mask his true nature presenting himself as the jolly helpful local policemen. There were people in stillwater. That knew what was going on and they said nothing fail way. Now here's the other side of the criminal. Justice system is designed to be fair as best as it can. If nobody's gonna come forward. There isn't much we can do. We can't just randomly targeted people and investigated for no reason. This system only works. If you talked it was well. It doesn't always work. Well i can tell you one thing. It will never work if you don't speak don. It's a brave thing to do. It's a it's an extraordinarily courageous thing to do for victims. Speak out about it but if you don't sometimes the spark never gets let speaking out against child abuse is the most powerful weapon we have against abusers but for victims. Speaking out is very hard confusion. Denial fear shame and self blame can all play a factor in preventing child from speaking out about their abuse for clark. He convinced himself to keep his abuse a secret. Pretty much immediately. After it happened back up into his truck dropped bicycle off down at the dam. And i just taste up and down along the river trying to understand what just happened to me in my mind thought it was protecting and it told me we do not wanna talk about what just happened talking about. It is equal to reliving it. So i sealed myself shut. It was the worst thing i could have done. At age. twelve cloak his pain away. This would set him on a path that would lead him right back to his pegues home. Thirty three years later. On the night of june twelfth twenty. Twelve clark and bob reynolds went to confront dennis. Pag bob and i parked. I grabbed my hunting knife. I jot his driveway. His front door was open. He had a storm door which was shug. I could see right until his living room and their dentist sat watching tv. Guest in rage started to build up within. I walked up to his storm door. I ripped it open breaking the hinges. In what dennis didn't set me off to the point that it determined his fate is nine thirty at night. A person is standing there in his doorway who raped as a twelve year. Old boy in dennis casually looks over his shoulder and says hey. How are you i said. Hey how am i mother fucker lobby fucking show you how i am. And i raised the crossed. His living room and i began stabbing got up out of his chair. He's punching me. I'm stabbing at him. Also this encounter. I was saying to posit. Feel touching little boys now. How's it fucking field. Dennis the touch little boys now at one point he landed a solid shot across my jaw. I yelled you motherfucker. I brought the knife down. I put the night straight through my hands. That and instantly became uselessly. Seven ligaments and thinkers the fight continued. Adm bleeding profusely and he slipped down in the blood on the floor. And i knelt down. I level to him and i looked in the eye and i said it's not so fun. Little boys now is dennis. And i slit his throat here. In clark described dennis's murder might fill you with a sense of. I feel like karma finally caught up with this animal but for clark that feeling never came. There was no joy in what i had just done to murder. someone. I had to be completely broken. I'd to get down to like an animal is not like i took a big exhale in that moment said. Wow that was fun. It was a horrific encounter. I looked at him. And i knew my life was over having murdered a retired police. Lieutenant clark now faced the justice system and one of his first stops along. The way was a suicide sell. Clark spent several weeks in that cell and would ultimately survive his thoughts of suicide only to find that another possible threat to his life waited him. After seven weeks. i was moved into general population. I was being held in the very jail for dennis paxton. His twenty five year career. I thought at bare minimum. I would get the beating of my life. I thought the correctional officers take me into a room closet where there's no cameras and i didn't know if i would ever walk out of that rope noting the obvious. Conflict of interest. Clark's defense attorney filed a motion with the sussex county superior court to have clark moved to a different jail. The motion was denied as clark waited for his court proceedings to move forward unsure if or when the correction officers were planning to strike. Something was happening outside the jail. Something very interesting happened right. After this became public there was an overwhelming number of people. That had just started being vocal. Saying i knew it. I knew dennis peg was a child molester. It was everywhere you went. And i saw something occur that have never seen before. We didn't three or four days of clark being incarcerated everywhere. You drove on bumper stickers of cars you would save bumper stickers that said free clark there was a rallying cry of community behind clark frederiksen. I had never seen in any other crime ever thirty years. I've never seen that with the community. Rallying behind clark sussex county prosecutor's office was put in a delicate situation. Their first degree murder case was strong but representing a child rapist and convincing a jury to see dennis peg is a victim was a tall task. Prosecuting attorneys were put in a very difficult spa. If they walk into a courtroom and go for the home run here and try to put him away for thirty years and they go to trial at all. As a matter of fact in this county they realized they actually might get a not guilty for they may get a jury of. I don't care what evidence you have. That guy's trial rapists target us a favour. They had to look at this in. And ask why you know in one respect. You're trying clark frederick's but in another respect you're also trying dennis pay as the court proceedings move forward. Clark pled not guilty but when you plead not guilty in a murder case you must provide the court with a defense in his case clark went with diminished capacity defense diminished capacity contends that although the defendant admits to breaking the law this should not be held fully liable for doing so as their mental state was impaired while the crime was being committed the main distinction between diminished capacity and insanity defense is that diminished capacity is a partial negating defense while insanity is a complete defense in a murder case instead of being found not guilty by reason of insanity a diminished capacity defense usually seeks a reduced charge of manslaughter. To bolster is defense. clark met with a psychologist. Who developed a report on them. This report was eventually delivered to the prosecutor's office and ask to the prosecutor received that record. Their psychologists also read any also came up with a different defense on my behalf instead of diminished capacity. He's felt i fit in perfectly to cash provocation. Manslaughter. passion provocation. Manslaughter is a second degree. Felony the typical scenario of this crime is a husband coming home to find his wife in bed with another man and then immediately kills her or lover motivated by anger. The husband takes no time to think through his emotional response but instead acts without rationalizing or reasoning when this happens he's considered to have a reasonable provocation for his emotional response in clark's case prosecutions. Psychologist would site. Clark's run ins with dennis seeing the send dusky murder trial on tv. And his conversation. With bob reynolds says clark's reasonable provocation. The entire process of evaluating clark's mental state and submitting reports. His defense would take three years. And in twenty fifteen the sussex county prosecutor's office offered clark the opportunity to plead guilty to second degree manslaughter. If he refused. Clark would go to trial and face the possibility of thirty years in prison for first degree murder. I already had three years and it was simply too risky irresponsible to go to trial by lawyer. Says it's completely your decision. I thought about a few weeks. And i said let's take deplete deal. As part of his plea agreement clark was required to read allocution statement in court and confess on record to what he had endured as a child. And what he had done about it. Many major news outlets were there to capture this allocution and this would be the first time that clark told the world. He was raped as a child. Zegers old twice. Twelve years of the sexually assaulted rid june twelfth. Two thousand twelve my show craft at said over and over to how does it feel rating kids now. The endless loop stroke sounds together with that. So all i have typically after a person confesses to murder. There are angry lookers and crying families in the courtroom but after clark read his statement. Something unusual happened. Secrets revealed in sussex county new jersey. Courtroom confessed killer. Clark fredericks delivered a detailed gut wrenching account of what he says happened to him as a child and what he did about three decades later as he left the courtroom this eruption of applause. They weren't applauding me because i murdered a pedophile. They were applauding me for having the courage to finally break my silence. After pleading guilty clark would return to jail awaits sentencing. It would be six months before his punishment was handed down. According to a recent forbes article working from home could transform the job market and create global competition for every roll. 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Get the edge on the competition. Go to ziprecruiter dot com slash monsters ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire on june two thousand. Fifteenth clark fredericks pled guilty to second degree manslaughter after murdering the man that raped him as a child. Three decades earlier six months later clark returned court to receive his sentence. I went before judge critchley statement and he said i believe mr frederick only did what he did because of what was done to him as a child he said i intended deliberate. Mr fredericks right now and going to give fredericks minimum five years. I apologize for having sent him to prison for a single day. It's not every day but a judge. Apologize to a confessed murderer. Clark sentence of five years stirred up some controversy in stillwater. Residents of the town tended to fall into one of two camps. The first one believing that clarke should have gone to prison at all. People have commented that they sell. I should never seen a single damiaan borst and believe it or not. I've spoken many times with the prosecutor. I case and one of the things he asked me was. What do you think your life would have been like had gotten away with the murder. I said look. I was already carrying once secret. That was destroying my life. I suppose to think that now going to carry the secret of murder. I would have been dead. There's no way. I had gone through life with these two secrets. The other camp felt that clarkson's wasn't harsh enough. There was a lot of talk about his sense of five years. And i don't have a problem on. I'll tell you why many interested in justice. I think the prosecutors did the right thing. I think they did have kerry very good job and justice. What's her clark. Did five years and something people are going to say you have emerged. I get it. I should better than anybody else on the guy that put up the body gang but he went away and you know what i think i would tell people if they criticize and say what you really should look at an alert about consider each what clark during his time in prison and what he's doing now after clark sentencing he was moved to northern state prison in newark new jersey to serve out his remaining time while there he would finally begin to heal from the sexual abuse he had endured as a child. My very first day of all out of sorts. You're filled with fear going into a new place like that. You don't know what to expect a couple of hours after i landed there. A therapist showed up of myself and asked me to join therapy with her. And i jumped at the chance. Required me going to prison before. I finally did therapy for first time in my life. Clark's case made international headlines and as a result people from all over the world were writing to him had people from all over the country sending me books self. Help books meditation books. Mindfulness books yoga books. And i take the smallest book. i figured. It was small enough. That i could get through it. That book was man's search for meaning by holocaust. Survivor viktor frankl. When i read it there was a line in there that changed my life at ignited. Something in my soul and that line was when you are faced with an intolerable situation that will not change. You must change yourself. And i said wow. My situation is not going to change anytime soon. So i have to change myself and i dedicated myself to reading from that point. Forward to begin. Healing myself to begin improving myself as a person. I read books on meditation. Books on self-improvement books on mindfulness. Read over five hundred books. I tried to take something at each book. I read in. Apply it to myself so my time in prison was stilled which was filled with reading. And that's what i did. During my incarceration december thirtieth twenty sixteen clark was released from prison giving him the opportunity to become a contributing member of society. And that's exactly what he did. When i was released from prison. I saw online news about three boy. Scouts that lived in the county next to me who had filed a lawsuit against the boy scouts and it listed the lawyer in the law firm. They were using night eventually called the guy. He told me he knew all about my case. And he told me that. I had no legal recourse against the boy scouts because of the way the law was written in new jersey prior december. Twenty nine thousand nine in the state of new jersey victims of sex abuse only had until age twenty to file a lawsuit against an organization whereby they had been sexually assaulted by one of its members or employees. This is known as a statute of limitations in response. Clark clark became an advocate for amending the statute and i started meeting with senators and assemblymen and lobbyists and lawyers to urge them to adopt a new law. That we can't have other clark's running around taking the law into their own hand less than two years. After becoming an advocate new bill passed unanimously into law this new law which took effect on december i twenty nineteen enables child sex abuse victims to file their lawsuit all the way up to age fifty five prior to clark taking action. New jersey had the shortest amount of time in the country in which child sex abuse victims could file it. Now has the longest. Every state in america has its own statute of limitations for child sex abuse claims but in february of twenty twenty. The boy scouts of america significantly reduced the time that victims have to file their claims against them in the entire country. Today the boy scouts of america one of the biggest youth organizations in the country filed for bankruptcy protection an unapologetic. The bsa says it encourages victims to come forward and file claims but under the structure of this bankruptcy there's a deadline and a limit to payments boy. Scouts of america announced that they were filing for bankruptcy on february seventeenth. Twenty twenty victims. That suffered sex-abuse says a result of being involved with their organization only had until november sixteenth. Twenty twenty to file a new claim. And since the bsa had filed for chapter eleven it has allowed them to remain in operation while raising money for a victim's compensation fund effectively stopping lawsuits from pulling funds from their existing assets. If you're going to be an organization that is devoted to children you have the responsibility to make sure the people you bring on to represent your organization are there solely to do your will of improving the lives of those children. The boy scouts failed miserably at doing that. They have kept their own secret. Perversion files on scout masters. Who have abused children in their ranks. The boy scout perversion files are series of documents that list scout leaders who have allegedly abused children in their care. A group of alleged victims claims the boy scouts of america kept secret. Records about leaders accused. Misconduct called the perversion. Files attorneys say the files. Go all the way back to the nineteen forties and had been shared with law enforcement. They include more than seventy eight hundred suspects over twelve thousand victims. The bsa initially resisted the release of their perversion files. But in twenty twelve. They were forced to do so by an oregon supreme court filing sexual abuse against a child is a violent crime is no excuse for this. There's none i don't wanna hear anybody. Offer any explanation when children are being victimized and society is not stepping up and shutting it. Down we fail. We failed as a society. We failed as species. I mean what are we doing. And the fact that we have organizations whether it's religious groups or social groups like voice got and this has gone on and has been perpetuated and these agencies. haven't really come out and warn admitted it taken hit and done complete wholesale fundamental change tube. Stop it from happening and prevent it from ever happening again is probably the most disturbing part to boy. Scouts did nothing but window-dress for decades. They did everything they could. To avoid facing the fact that they had enormous problems in their ranks of pedophile scout masters. And it's unfortunate that it takes the catholic church. It takes the boy scouts to face a monetary loss before they finally will enact change according to the boy scouts of america's own website which encourages abuse victims to come forward. They have quote developed some of the strongest expert informed youth protection policies found in any youth serving organization. End quote though. It's not made clear what those policies are exactly as clark fredericks after prison. Life went on and not long after his release he took a job as a chef at boathouse restaurant in his hometown of stillwater. There he had another unexpected run in with someone from his past some years later after the trial and whatnot clarke had gone to prison. I was out with another friend of mine who is also in the state police fishing. We wanted to stop and get a bite to eat. Atmospheres gentlemen won't behind me from towards the dining room force. The kitchen and i said to the bartender who i knew i said Who was that that just walked into the kitchen. She says status. Clark fredericks i. Would you'd any favor you go in the kitchen. Tell him he got in the state. Police say hi. When he came out of the kitchen he looked at me as sitting at the bar was none. Other than lieutenant howard ryan who had come into mysel- multiple times spoke to me like a human being treated me with empathy and compassion and quite possibly saved my life from decades behind bars by urging me to exercise my fifth amendment rights. And keep my mouth shut without him doing that. I could go on into that interrogation room and completely destroyed my life. He came walking home. We shook hands and he gave me a big hug and we started talking about us dealing and everything else and it was funny because the down a little bit like not maybe almost emotional looking Waiting to see you. I told him how much. I appreciate it what he did that day. After this chance encounter. Clark developed a friendship with howie ryan and he would eventually ask. The now. Retired lieutenant for favor. It tastes that a lot of people that may know the story. I don't know that much about him personally. Clark said very driven intelligent person and he knew what he wanted to do with his life afterwards. One day as i sat in my prison cell. I heard a voice loud and clear. Say you're going to be a speaker. And i sort of laughed to myself because i had always been deathly afraid of speaking in front of an audience. I just sort of shrug. Shoulders said to myself. All right i'm going to become a motivational speaker. Not long after his release from prison. Clark fulfilled the instruction of his jailhouse premonition. He is now a motivational speaker. And before taking the stage the police officer that arrested him for murder sometimes give the introduction is regrettable run to realize just how amazing is that the guy responsible for my arrest sphere as a friend introduced and his arrest actually saved my life. My moment stacy was not my travel. My molestation was a teaching tool for my problem was my refusing to share with any clark has given a speech at fundraiser events and other venues across the east coast including high schools colleges and the prison where he served I would hope that by speaking out about this. That brings awareness to this problem. That by speaking now i've given the courage other victims to speak out to begin healing instead of taking the law to their own hands. I don't advocate for anyone. Murdering their abuser killing dennis pag did not end my torment. It actually added another layer to the healing. I had to clark's message is clear. In order to heal the victims of sexual abuse must break their silence and speak out but his message is not limited to abuse victims. Everybody not just victims of child sexual abuse but everybody could learn something from clark shredder. When you think your life is tough. Take a look at his. He underwent a lot and mason. Very poor decisions came out on the other side and he came out like a champion. Doing the right thing for the right reasons. And i think the most important message he would send to you if you are a victim and if you know somebody who you've got to speak up i've got people into many countries to list who have reached out to me with their own stories of abuse in how me breaking. My silence has given that the courage to speak up about the road abuse. He's helping people. I've known i've seen it first hand. I've seen people come up to him tears and thank him for being brave enough to talk about story and it's getting them strength to talk about their story and one of the things clark said to me about the life that he lived and about the things that he endured is that your silence is your worst enemy at the end of most sword and scale episodes like the close out with a theme or offer moral lesson of some sort that you can walk away with but for this one. I'm just going to handed off to the murderer in our story. Clark fredericks allies. Doesn't have to be destroyed. If you were molested gets therapy. You begin healing practice. Mindfulness practice meditation. These are all things. I do to keep myself healthy and i urge other people to do so. All the listener podcast. You've been abused this nothing to be afraid of the only way to heal his to break your silence trump transparent. And if you look at yourself in the mirror and you don't like what you see your consumed by darkness. Trust that if you begin the healing the inside will allow the outside to shine once again. for this episode of sword and scale special. Thanks to holly cellino and how we ryan for their interviews. You can learn about what how he's up to at highland forensics dot com. And you can lose. Podcast at under the yellow tape dot com and thanks to clark fredericks- you can find him on all social media platforms under clark fredericks or visit his website at clark fredericks dot com. Until next time stay safe and be apparent put in the time. Teach your own damn kid how to tie a knot and stay safe Hi my name's. Andy you can call me asshole. I guess I love your show. It's fantastic and i was asked how listened to such start crime stories. But you know. I just i think it keeps me grounded. You know hearing all these terrible things came from abusive situation and you know now. I'm in a happier place. Keeps me grounded. Thank you thank you for creating the show. Thank you for all the work that good into it. I know how much work goes into it. Thank you for keeping all of us. Grounded him say now. This is kylie from portland. Oregon claimed to help you annoy listeners. And to also let you know that your podcast is never favorite true. He's you're keeping it real. Hey how you doing. Hi my this is melena here in south florida. Gay florida and wanted to tell you that i just joined Thorndale plus i thoroughly enjoy your show. It's amazing I listened to it almost every day. And so out of those. And i wanted to join the plus so i can get all the extra content. You are a lifesaver. I have two kids. And i take care of everything that goes on behalf and i listen as i do. All of my hustle. Tau thank you for keeping me thoroughly entertained. While i do the day to day. Thank you great content. Love your work but my disguise. The new update on this recent episode. Here i just wanted to call and say i appreciate everything. You do Maybe some people don't understand The gravity of your of your podcasts. Because they haven't gone through certain life experiences That other people have gone through. And maybe that's why some people don't understand the content of your of your podcast. I hear a lot of people out there but You know if you don't like it. Don't listen simple as that. Thanks a lot Food is out there. I'm unwrapping a mcdonald's steak and cheese bagel who look at this steak and a juice running down the side. Go little bit on rapper. Here and then a fluffy egg and real cheese. Ford oversaw looking. Just so good Grilled onions unabomber bego. Two thumbs off. Madonna steak egg and cheese bagel for breakfast. Love it More baba participating mcdonald's.
Episode 67: Take the Shrapnel vs Moose Semen Challenge
"Working interferences is intended for mature audiences since the hosts never grew up. Someone needs to be the adult. Welcome to working interferences with Josh Lynn's. The dental advice podcast for the average dentist. Nothing. It's time blow. Blow. Okay. To here is Josh land. What is up? Welcome to the working influences podcast dental advice show, Josh Walston, and I'm last Timmerman, Lance. I sound like Lou Reed. I'm sorry. You sound like shit. I've been smoking a lot of cigarettes. It's been great Pall Mall swallowed a load of razors. Okay. All right thought. It was going to say some Elston. Yeah. I did. Not good. Andrew had a call last week. And then I came down with it. And it's been great. That's really great now hygienist at the office. Who is the black plague and has been sick for like, I don't know six months or something. So that could be involved who knows? Well, imbed she's been coming to work. Anyway, though. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Which are. I mean, I do appreciate it. However, I would like for everybody to not be sick and something. Yeah. That would be said it's a it's a good goal. I don't think it's a lot to ask for its it seems minimal. But you know, who knows did a webinar tonight, which sorry isn't helping my voice. My voice is doing cable for that. And then after that was like fuck. So you guys have to deal with it. Hopefully by next week. It will be better. It's going to be great on Thursday when I'm speaking for like, six hours. So that's gonna be awesome. Nice. Nice turn them. My couple out that day and keep it going. Yeah. No kidding. That lapel mic is like right tape to your the side of your mouth. I'm going to put it in my mouth. Okay. If I stick it in my ear will just go off my thoughts. That'd be great. Good. Dangerous. Don't that? We I spoke last week twice Charlotte met two of our good friends of the show. One was Steve Warhol was out my electron Thursday, Steve famously came to our live show wearing a t shirt that said tough luck for my guy. I was so love and so he just happened to be at the program on Thursday. And then rich Rosenblatt good night friend of the show on Friday. So very cool. Yeah. I got a text someone screen shot at a screen. I guess did you have a slide with our logo? I did. She sent it to me and Mike. Oh, you must be in Chicago. Nice. What are you doing? Nice. So we have some new listeners from those cog. Oh programs. Welcome welcome. It's a safe place when no ways not not. No, it's a very say we say can we say some real shit here. So we're gonna since my voice is is not in great shape. We're gonna keep it relatively short tonight. But I have a question to lead to south. So we're gonna jump into our bits and get to the questions you call Ellen's. I am cool. You know, this is an advice show. That's what you've told me. We'll be answer. Our listeners questions you answer questions. We find on all those neat. Little dental face groups. We answer our own questions we answered questions from Reddit strive to help Denison don't t- members of their own unique brand vice so please we need your questions. They are the sustenance we crave you can submit your questions to working interferences at gmaiLcom. We don't want just any question. Do we Lance not really we don't want a bunch of boring questions? Like, what's the best dental website of all time because we all know the dental hub three sixty dot com is the greatest dental website ever. You want the questions at Gordon christianson cannot answer question. One is for me, Lance. I'd say, okay. All right jumbled in than any store with an S. Sacrilegious and San Antonio asks. So I had a temporary hygienic in today. So is the right word. Is there another word we she said. A a transitive Princess. Yes. Trays cheeses such really good. Strike one. She's left handed. Oh shit. Are you left handed? I am not your order with anybody. That's left handed. I have socks horrible. Shoutout to Barron. Grutter see lefty. Yeah. I remember I was once watching a spy may told this story here on on the old show. I was watching a spear video and Frank spear said, no, I do it from this direction because I'm left handed, and I literally turned the video off it walked out. Young anymore. You watch it with a mirror. Just look over your shoulder with a mirror and cheeser weird. People are weird. You screw everything up for everybody else. The downfall of society. It wasn't. So Rome fell. Yes. From a temporary left-handed hygienist. Exactly. Right. How I wish she clinically. Fine, except oh, she dropped my nomad. Oh my God. Did you lose your shit? So I've had the nomad for nine years as I opened my practice. Really? Okay. It is never been dropped once in nine years. All right. In Gaza doors? I want to say this this. All right innocuous, you mean this woman walks in in literally on the second patient of the day drops the Newman. It seems like it's okay. My question is more hypothetical. Okay. What if it would have been broken? He's not something that I can like go after the tip company for the placement. Coupling hit. Yeah. I don't think. So. Because the other thing is when I walked in on the first patient when I walked in admi hitching check on the first patient, the sensor was just like sort of half has early strewn across the counter like we're all the work gets done. Okay. And I asked her I was like can you please move somewhere else? Because the thing is I really expensive and. We don't just leave them laying out on the counter like that. Like when we're done with them. We take them out we unplugged them, and we hang them up. Right. Like in a in a corner of the office that nothing can happen to it rain. It says this thing strode across and so I called Tiana in my system. Can you take care of the sensor, and she knows how kind of sensitive. I am. But what the I just don't like. I don't like that stuff being mistreated in this as you should. Yeah. And then because it's me like, I'm the one that pays for it. Right. No one else cares. But I'm the one. That's right. That's right. And then the next patient. She drops the Noman. So I feel like if something would have happened in the nomad I go after the temp agency. I'd be like, listen, you guys are bonded and insured for recent. Yeah, I'm paying you a surcharge for reason. And that reason is like if something like this happens if gross misconduct happens on a piece of equipment, you're covering it. Right, right. Yeah. I had a reminder I had to work in interviews like three years ago hygienist, and we I like to have more than a single day. If I get a good vibe by other one I don't want to commit more than one day. A you. There's. Anyway, had a Tuesday and Wednesday and everything was going pretty well. Couple patients in suddenly the X Ray sensor. The tube is not a nomad mine was secured against the though the wall. But it suddenly wasn't working. And I'm like, whoa. How how and it it just she just said it just went she was touching buttons. I'm like, actually, we have it set. So you don't touch a button just chain and shoot. And but you know, I I think I handled it nice and everything and then finished the day out. And at the very end of the day. It was like, okay. I thought everything we all had a good time that staff went to lunch the whole deal. I got a text from her that night saying, yeah, I'm not gonna be there tomorrow, I've decided to look elsewhere. And I'm like, whoa. Are you'll be there tomorrow though? Right. 'cause I've a full day, and she wouldn't respond. I'm like seriously, I got eight people in a road that and I'm I'm kind of a bare bones. I don't have redundancy over staffing issues in at all in so call the temp agency, and you know, it's just right now, it's very slim Pickens to to getting things, I've we had to cancel view and do a few and it was just no. So I pretty sure it was because I think she probably felt guilty. I wasn't blaming her at all. But I think she she probably knew that she did something wrong. It was afraid we probably figured out that she wasn't there. She wants to get the hell out of there SAP before linked to her and unfortunately wasn't through an agency. So I didn't have anybody else to like blame. And there's you know, I'm then in the market for it's about six thousand dollars to get the new new tube. And then a nomads right around seven, isn't it? Think it's less than that. Okay. I knew I knew that it was roughly similar prices. I thought it was going to be higher than the other two been but the benefit is it can go to any room. So. I don't know. I wanna say this. We're going on a limb and say this, okay, I don't have data to back me up. So I usually don't feel. Yeah. I've never had a temp Genesis like. Maybe one, and I'll put it let me change that way. I've never had like a temp hygiene just like a one and done or to Donner whatever like from an agency, or whatever I'm never had one of those that I've liked now I have had some people that like we knew and worked for me before whatever like Betsy grocery. I'm not talking about that. But I'm dog, right. I call it had just get a person they show up. I've never had one been like. Oh my God. They're amazing. It's always been like, yeah. I can tell what your attempt by jenness. Because you're you're not any good. I think I've had a few. But they're absolutely outliers because. Yeah, usually, it's there's a reason you haven't found a home, right you. Yeah. And it's it's not it's not great. I mean, thankfully, it seems like the no advocate worked for this happened in the morning and work the rest of the day. But now, we're just my thought the whole day was would I go after the company, and I absolutely would get anywhere. But at least. Try to get them to pay for the repair sur. Sure. Is there any type of like diagnostic thing you can do to to make sure there's nothing wrong? I don't think. So I just think it doesn't work. Okay. Actually. Doesn't work. Like, that's I think it's just like a there's anything wrong at all. I think it just shuts down. Okay. Does it can't have like a, you know, they can just like firing stuff off right shoot gamma radiation. Now concerning the hall be great. That would be great. So I don't know I need to look at like my arrangement with them. I need to call them. And just ask them. Hey, hypothetically, this were to happen. Where would you guys do? Yeah. Because that's I mean, that's like a ruling that can happen that that is for sure. Yeah. I don't know. I asked my sister. Where was the nomad when it fell it was on a chair? I paid a lot of money for countertops. Lancy Araya Ryan got the Korean. Yeah. All whatever. Yeah. It is star. Whatever I don't know. It's it's kind of anti-bacterial bullshit. Okay. Star on or something like that paid a lot of money for this. Great sounds because that's where the nomad is supposed to go on the counter not on the chair. The other thing is like, you know, when the room is swung around for a lefty in your righty. It's like it. Nothing works. Nothing's right. It's. I had one she actually worked for me for about a year left handed. And I kept trying initially. I tried to come from that side. Just what the chair was already swivelled that way and tried to things backwards. And I think it lasted I think it lasted like three patients. Wow, upbringing. I. Yeah. I just now we got to the I got the ADA one up of little lever and swivels, and it's it's not that hard to do. But it's just annoying to after. This is going to sound like a little Jim crow in forgive me. You think left-handed hygienist should work for Lieutenant Dennis. Okay. The easier for sure yeah. Now, I'm not saying they have to drink out of their water, fountains, or whatever. But. Pure left. Exactly. The Jim crow version of left-handed hygienists, shoplift Aurium and stay with drain type warning dentist. Left-hand are they're left handed. I'm sure I'm sure there's less left-handed assistance. But I've never heard of that being a problem now that's only left-handed clinicians. It's a serious problem. Yeah. I'm surprised. They graduated dental school just because you would have thought we would have weeded them out. So they could go where they're supposed to be like relief pitchers. That's what you're supposed to do. That's right. You're relief pitcher. That's it. That is it James paxton's James Paxton, former Mariner's starting pitcher lefty, but but be a pitcher. That's it. That's you're supposed to be is a lefty. The only thing Quebec's aren't lefty. There's only one Lieutenant quarterback in the hall of fame. You know, who it is Steve Young? I need you know, I need because the BYU thing I need. Yes. Steve Young only left-hand quarterback in the hall of fame, obviously. But you get pitchers. Jim's arms. Really good too. Was he left? He he was not in the hall of fame though. No, he's in my hall of fame. Several in spank Bank. Call. Scare Seattle Seahawks players elevate. Efren Herrera was the best kicker ever. Nice kurt. Kurt Warner the running back on her. Remember that guy? That's right. That's right. I swing large it doesn't count. He was like a Senator or something. Like everybody knows Steve barks, I'm trying to think of of an obscure Seahawks wide receiver besides Steve large, and it's hard to find. I am bleeds who Brian blades. I think he died of like brain trauma. See to know, those Bennie blades, his brother. Okay. I didn't kill someone and they got off. Yeah. Those Bennie blades. Yeah. Tough luck. Tough luck for my guys the plates. Let manager nobly left-handers with ten NBA player you'll be spending. So that's okay. Argentina same thing. Pretty much. Yeah. Same side of the ocean. So if if this were you and something was wrong with the nomad. Would you call the tip agency? And like see what you could get. Or would you just bend over at fish? I would fish with them. And for sure what's so in this kind of an and just kind of see where they go. Maybe maybe the this has happened before. And they they they have a protocol. Oh, yep. Protocol this has to be a thing. Yeah. Somebody's drop something's broke his censor. Somebody's. Stuck a caveat? Tron a cats butthole or something? There's been a history of stuff that's happened. I guarantee you fast to like shit happens. You always cringe when we have someone like that. Even if it's working everywhere attempt. They it it never ceases to amaze me the stuff that they think that was made sense like at one like rive the this drawer for cold sterile. And it's got a lid on it. And it's almost impossible to to splash. Your is this she ripped it from its hinges to try to drain it to replace them. Like, what are you doing it doing? And she's like, well, this was ridiculous. You should actually I only found out about it. 'cause she came to complain to me how hard it was to get out of the hinges. And I'm like it's supposed to stay. There will how do you change like we'll they're the big old suction too bright year that you suction at all. And then she calmed down a little bit. But when I'm like, yeah. You gotta go like right now. Yeah now. Yeah. But it's launch. Yeah. Just don't come back. I also had a event today. I had to team members had to go dumpster diving. Oh, somebody. Throughway an entire unused syringe of Activa restorative like a big ass ridge of it like one hundred and fifty dollar. Shouts to my pulp folks in Watertown mass. Larry Clark Christie Bailey. Shouts love love the Activa. Okay. So much. So that when someone threw it away, I said here are your two options. There was a full box on this counter yesterday. It is not here anymore. Someone threw it away. Option. One is you guys can pitcher money together replace it option to get dirty. So they come back and then get dirty. And they find it the did. Wow. And they're looking at me like they want me to reward them. Yes. Like wouldn't have had to happen. Had you not thrown an entire syringe of something away. Like, what are you doing? You're rewarded by you're still employed. Right. That's exactly right. So you're welcome. This was this wasn't like, oh, I accidentally threw this away. Can you do this for me? No, no, no. You're fixing your own problem. And in fact, the person who threw it away was not the one who had to get in the dumpster. She needs to be kissing your ass. Not me, exactly. Kissing and pictures. What was the you? Don't wanna see this wanna see on promising. Okay. My HR policy. Right, right. Makes sense. What's the most expensive thing? Someone's thrown away your office hand piece case, I think you a wax up. We had a case it was no veneers themselves. Well, we ended up because outlooks garbage. Yeah. Well, we ended up finding they weren't in the garbage, but we'd already gone through everything. And by the time, he found it. So cheese. Probably I think someone I one person a new hire. That didn't we have the metal three way syringe tips. Yep. Came from an office where everything was disposable. So suddenly, I had no air water syringe tips who haired they all going, wait a minute. We had like one hundred where are they? She was. I think we need order something like we don't order those. And she's just look at me. We are Mike they are metal. We we sterilize them. We autoclave those. Oh, like serious. So all my office is there's these stickers that say do not throw away metal air water syringe tips, like just all over plastered. Because of that bitch said great world we live in Lancia's. Great world, we live in question too, similar to my question actually, think about this. But but similar Billy asks patients not paying attention turns and runs into Pano causing a slit big enough to urgent care. Who fits the Bill is what it says. I think he means who flips the Bill who pays for it pays for it. So Joe that just walked into your damn sensor. So you think it's the patient. That's who I wanted to be. I'm absolutely we absolutely all want it to be that. Let's like pragmatism. I'm pretty sure my liability insurance is supposed to present. Yeah. We're you're screwed in that situation. You're screwed. I would fight it. And then ultimately given because I know I'm gonna lose. But I would I would make life. It depends on the patient because I like a lot of them. So then I probably wouldn't make too might be my excuse to get someone out of the practice. You too stupid to be a part of my bright bright to get up. Leave your gone. Yeah. I'm somewhat concerned about the Pano to like thirty thousand dollar piece of equipment. You've just buried your head in it act your head open like the do anything of the Pano. Are we worried about that? Now or just write about this demonstration said. I I check that out too. It. I mean, this is one of the things it's like. If this happens to somebody you have a good relationship with. It's very easy to get them to like just go to urgent Karen to the meta churns, right, right? Yep. That's easy. The problem is if it's somebody like, you don't have great relationship with a new patient. Cheviot? No or like God forbid, it's like the kid just running shit through the office that mom and dad can't control. Right. Like, that's the kind of kid that this happens to. Yeah. This is a bad news bears, man. This is not going to go. Well for anybody. This isn't knows this is a no-win all lose. Everyone says no win. It's actually an all lose situation. Right. Because I guess like a tie could be no win. Right. Nobody wins. But nobody loses either. This is all lose situation for sure. Yeah. This any looking good. Do you think there should be a sign on the panel? That says like watch out. T would Billy's office right now. There is a guarantee you. Yeah. I mean. The dumbing down of America has gotten to the point where we kind of have to on every little thing like razor blades, do not swallow. I mean, no shit. I did that. And it's not just did it. Mcdonald's coffee thing comes up, right? Yeah. Have you heard the whole story on that one though what? Yeah, I was going to say I I remember there being more to the story. Yeah. And I don't fully remember what I do you. Remember, it was like one hundred seventy degrees. I think it was higher than that. It was it was ridiculous. That is that is ridiculously hot the. The story. I mean a flight I thought would've stupid America litigious society, this that I guess the McDonald's was notorious had a reputation for having things too hot lots of complaints it already been filed. And then this little lady burned. And I saw the pictures of the burns it just looked bad. It that you're like way. This was this wasn't just someone being silly and not paying attention as it was it was a mess. So so the equivalent of this would be like Billy has seven patients that run into the Pano. He doesn't put anything up in an eighth patient. Does it and like really hurts themselves. Right. Right. Elliot's fucked at that point. Yup. Instead of Billy Puckett, it is Billy fuck it at that meal. Right. Like you. Pretty much. I what do you think? Starbucks Coffee is temperature-wise it's supposed to be a hundred forty hundred forty s so that I remember that like in complete lab because like we use green stick compound, and that was what it felt to that. And so it's like well temperature most people get the coffee at so. Yes, it's very hot. But it's not going. It's not like scalding hot. Yeah. I I when I see my Moses elite sleep apnea plants we heat the water two hundred seventy I've Lou candy thermometer to make sure hyping hot piping hot. Oh, yeah. I like I feel strong. I feel like Starbucks. Probably has that dial in pretty good, right? Doing anything? It's consistency. Right. I have a feeling that the that he got down to a science. So next west do think Billy needs to put a sign on his panel. If he doesn't have one I think he does. Absolutely. The first time it happens, whatever like mercy of the gods. That's right. Like, maybe you get maybe depending ask patient. Maybe it's not. But the second time if there's any record of that happening once before. Screwed what put on the Pano that would make people like wanna stay away from it. Big orange cone. I think picture of Michael Jackson's face, right? That way. Go running into it at that point. What else could you put on there? Like a picture of a tuba cabraha stay away caution. No one wants to become might that might do ya? Uh-huh. Yeah. I think I think you win. Michaels the ultimate thwarting of for volley. Yeah. If your PO practice near pitcher, Michael Jackson kids are staying away. That's that's the that's definitely like save that for not like, you know, the sort of don't push this button. What has ever kid then wanted to? Absolutely unless you put like if you push this button. Michael jackson. We'll come molest you then like, then no one's. That's how you make. Sure. Screaming on that MacAulay Culkin style. Right. So Billy, you're screwed probably violet vile with your insurance. You should have some kind of liability insurance on your office tape, a sign of the damn panel with Michael Jackson's face on it. Yeah. Get one of those those bumpers at you. When you're docking your boat, you hanging off the side. But that next year panel. Oh god. I can't even imagine. That'd be so good. Good or the next time. They're in town. They're in and they're supposed to have their Pano or something put it up right in front of them. Okay. We're going to get ready for hold on hold on. And you put this big bumper, right? There are on get a batting helmet to give the. Like to give them next time. They come in or football life preserver, just just just. Case universal precautions plants. That's right. Billy your host. Your yearly screwed have fun with that. Yeah. Ready for a read it? I think tonight we're twenty five minutes in. Yeah. Read at user JJ glow. Asks desks taste stabbing. My gums. That's exactly what Justice stabbing. I'm just reading it as it says. So I went in for cleaning a couple of days ago. She did my bottom teeth. I know issues no pay no bleeding. She them goes to clean, my top teeth and pain begins. I don't know if she doesn't notice, but she is stabbing capital letters might gum as I close my eyes in pain as she's doing it. She would do one tooth stat my gum, and it would bleed and then move to the next one in repeat afterwards. She has the audacity. To say, she doesn't know why they were so much bleeding, and she prescribes me a mouthwash and tells me to use it for ten days. My question is do I really need the mouthwash or was a bleeding caused by? Her stabbing me repeatedly in the gums. I hate patients. I really do. I really do. So part of this is a is a failure on the hygienist part to explain what was happening. And why and all that kind of sounds meet us me imperial probed and bait she hated it. Well, when you what did I not probe the bottom? I didn't say they did the bottom. But it was fine. It's kinda like the maybe she had, you know, localized Perry of the bottom was fine. And so she didn't bleed, and she was able to go in and pro them all of course, what you wouldn't the person if they were kinda bitch and moan about a very proud with the they would mention that they were called out the twos, threes and the. Yeah. And where can start when you probe just out of curiosity? I was starting to just go clock is what burner? Do you use on your stove? That front one bottom. Right, right. Yeah. Everyone starts. Everyone uses the same burner on their stove. And everyone starts at the dude. The distal buckle to and go grass. Right. Yeah. So I don't know why they start. I mean, they may have cleaned the bottom. But if they're probing near starting to. True. So maybe they just stopped probing after the upper. And never got to the bottom because the guy was bitching moaning so much that could be. You think it was just the scaler? And there was I don't will describe it. I don't think they would describe it. A stabbing though because they would they would say scraping. True. I don't know that you more proof that the perception of a patient is is always never trust a patient in the abstract about it all the time. Like the words that patients. Yes, exactly. Adding is one. Yeah. The pain begins. I don't know if she doesn't notice. But she is stabbing. My gum as I close, my eyes and pain, so dramatic, Lance. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, hey want you pick up a toothbrush, maybe wouldn't bleed so damn much. She would do one tooth stabbed Mike gum, and I would bleed and then move to the next one in repeat. So maybe just a bunch of maybe mouth breather could be plaque on the. Maxa Larry, which is a bunch of inflammation either way. The guy needs the mouthwash, right? Does follow the directions? You. Yes. So JJ glow. You need the mouthwash. The question is was calling from the top. That's different than the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. It's usually not upper not lower. It's kind of general. I just wonder how many of my patients leave my office and think this same kind of thing. Exactly. Yeah. Because we all we all hear this and we'll go, but my hygienist is good, right, right? This one happen. But his SAS to happen. They have to go home thinking, they got malls or something, right? Yeah. Yeah. They may never listened. They never remember I go in and describe parallel disease in the womb. Why it's bacterial infection and they still upfront when they're being set up for the next next. Visit don't understand why. Wait, I just went over that with you. What what were what did you miss? Couple responses Mook steam de who had from before. Oh, yeah. She was probably doing it on a probing, which is a good thing to do in. It shouldn't hurt. Her bleed militia guns are unhealthy for most people is fairly painless. And there's no bleeding. I would follow her recommendations Djidji. Go responded. I've had that done before. But I'm not sure if that was the case this time, she was stabbing me while she was cleaning my teeth. She wasn't using paranoid. Prob-? Maybe one of those pigtails like Patel explorers to see if she got all the tartar. Yeah. I mean that would make sense scale you scale, and you go with an exploratory stroke to figure out not eleven twelve. I don't know. Gove schnitzel says who's who's as a tag is general dentist? My concern. Is this person seems to have had no idea what was happening when I prob-. I also my patient wants go. What's what I'm doing? And why especially because it's at least a little painful in for people with healthy gums at his responsibility of our patients informants what you said, Lance. Yeah. Everybody says probing, but this person says, no. Yeah. If they are able to say recognize it was probing had before this was improving now, I think with Rolette went out. Yeah. I think it was a pay tale. They're really do. Yeah. The question is is why so much more substantial target on the maximum manipulative? And then like if that's the key. There was there was subject to order. I wouldn't say the quotas afterward. She had the audacity to say she doesn't know why. There was so much bleeding, right? Subject to order. I know exactly what is so much bleeding. I would never say that exactly would say you had a bunch of bleeding because you had a shit ton of tartar and eighty or gums. Yeah. You were bleeding. I would still say, yeah, you have a lot of disease there. What certainly wasn't me. You have a lot information. Right. Yeah. Weird. I don't know base. Read just in a rush. I guess yeah. I guess hygienists in a rush. So let's check out JJ glow. Okay. Some Stephan racing. Investing legal advice, personal finance? How about this? What are the best sedans at around thirteen thousand dollars? Well, all right. Some of the recommendations were a Hyundai Avalon Hyundai Elantra, Mazda three. Camry used Camry. Obviously camera is gonna start iron that. Interesting. How about this dealership failed to repair recall? I own a twenty eleven Ford Mustang GT, which has the Takada passenger bag and flare recall airbag must be replaced due to the danger of the inflator exploding upon impact on sending plastic pieces into the car and passengers does not sound great. That's tough luck for Burma airbag. I received the letter from four notifying me that he fixes now. I would hope so at there's a fix for that one. God. God told me to contact my dealership, I called my local Ford dealership. Schedule a woman the dealership, schedule my appointment. March seventeenth seven AM, which is about two weeks later March seventeenth Rosana wake up at six AM. Get right is a lot of detail here. I don't feel like we need to know your morning drive to the dealership, I'm assuming you do that. I'm I'm not assuming you did not have cartoon fill out some paper candid my and ask if their shuttle can take me and the girlfriend to a local breakfast spot that's worth an hour and a half. I get of service got telling me they have ran out of air bags and skim v send the shuttle to move again back at the dealership. Ask him what happened a lot of detail here. I don't need all the back and forth. Wow. Asked him what happens to they know is coming in for two weeks in advance Allah. Then I have an air bags aside for my vehicle. I got some BS excuse intern. I'm gonna Snead since they don't check their appointments as the cars are coming in. I said, okay. What's next? He said he would put in an order for an air bag for my vehicle. Any would contact me to make another appointment still no word just wanted to share my story here to get some euros opinions matter what happens if I'm involved in an accident airplane's deploy might passenger suffers injuries. Do the faulty airbag? Then just like Billy. If somebody runs into that Pano for the fifth time, you they are hose they are done. Yeah. That's man was a lot of exposition there. Yeah. That sounds like more of a yelp review it does. And that's where that really belongs except the nine hundred steps of like, oh, can I go to breakfast? I don't need the breakfast. I don't even know what time you got have. Oh, if I go that you drove. Yeah. What did you get extended? Like, what was it a waffle or toast muffins savory breakfast sweet breakfast, which one or did your girlfriend get the sweet? And you got the savory. And then you split halfway both. Yeah. I don't need to know that you've got a ride back to the deal. Like, I'm assuming these are all things you can leave out. This is a this is seven hundred words that could be a hundred and fifty this is why we need editors. Yes. At read. It needs editors read enters right? There you go. I think that's what they call Reddit users is think do not really use that. But still didn't it. Okade? Somebody responded us I work for them. I'm assuming either forward or the airbag company. Okay. And it wouldn't be plastic shrapnel. It would be steel propelled by explosive sink and prince casts, depending on your location nearest from L function will depend moist warm places have a high failure rate. That is frankly terrifying a little bit. Holy moly. That's the last thing. I want to think about is Emery going to get like a impaled like the Unabomber victim style. Pipe bomb in my steering wheel. You're in Arizona. So they wouldn't just be the shrapnel EF scorpions in there too. Adam Corolla has a bit where he says that like every one hundred airbag needs to be filled with moose semen. Okay. Just to keep you on your toes to make you drive a little bit safer. It's not a yak. But it's got to be. Yeah. You're right. I mean, it can't be like mail. It can't be like human. And you need you need an animal is going to give a large volume of it. Because you've got to fill an airbag with suck blue. But he yeah, you have inside. Then all works to the point is is that you need to like not you need to just have that in the back of your mind or driving. See like, oh, I need to text Lance about this funny joke, and then like wait, I'm going to wait till I get home because I don't want. You know, the moose semen thing you want to take risk. I'd rather have I have to admit, Lance. Uh-huh. Drew there have metal shrapnel or moose semen in your airbag, which one did pick. I think I'm going for the shrapnel. Really hell. Yeah. Don't want them, moose, boo. All over me. Spooked isn't gonna kill you. It might. I'm not gonna take that chance. You'll deal with the shrapnel. I will will. Well. She's come back with an ipad wanna know what happened. I'll go on record as saying I'll take the mousse even every day of the week again. Always. Always. Oh, man. Why do think that's going to do it today? Okay. All right last time. I did a song. He did this song. I hated. Right. I supposed to do one. I hated. No. You don't have to. I'm just saying. I broke ranks. And did. Yeah. You did song. I Haley say I agree with you. That's awful PISA shits is Jerry, you're terrible. That song was bad. No one likes us song rough tough. And here is not even my guy who's your tough look for Hosur. Yeah. Or shed fit friends. Sure, you have some demented friends out there who would like to take the moose in or shrapnel challenge. The newest thing spreading through the internet. It's a Japanese game show is that the guide watched that I sat on the game show network. Absolutely better hit that hard. Right in review. Where would you like them to rate review us lands? I'll take it anywhere. It's most cement than than you want. Shrapnel. Tune Stitcher Spotify pod bean flicking through flick five stars. We we love the number five. We hope we earned your five stars today. I don't know if we did. But humorous. Hit five anyway, hit us up on the web working in for instance, dot com. Hit us up on all social bishops working interferences. With Josh Lance on Facebook Instagram at which a for instance, Twitter at winter is I can be found on Instagram at Josh Watson. DS lands can be found on Instagram at DR Timmerman DMZ, find us and smash that follow button, Lance. You got song force. I do I suddenly felt little nest Aljic on the way home tonight. And this is a song from a group. I mentioned way the early days of the podcast the beautiful south and so off of their nineteen Ninety-six album. The first song was off a blue is the color of the name of the album, but the song was don't marry her. Fuck me. Oh, okay. So there we go seems like a reasonable request. Let me let me search this. Oh, okay. I think that was the first album the Jacqueline Abbott was added to the band. So it's real. Yeah. That comes up on YouTube is don't marry her have me then name of bury her. The song is don't when you're seeing it along. I got it. I I hear you. So I hear you cool. So where it lets you wear for. Where do you think they're another jangle pop? It says little bit there. They're from hall England. We actually flew out two years ago to to hall to watch them. They were United player from their bread whole. Kingston upon hull was their official name dot com. They ever calls a whole it's in the north Yorkshire part of England. We heard it from Lance don't marry her. Fuck me. For Lance Saruman. I'm Joshua Austin pace. Celebrate the foreskin. Advance thing. Just watching teddy thing to me. Never grow old that could never be. Marry me. And you love last chance. Shoes listening HD in tune. So you've annihilated in. She'll grab your sweaty. Slowly. And the Sunday Sunday. Franscisco? Then you realize. Any? Two. The. Lovely sunday. Redness fraud. Hitting fun Abegg. But who is so? Away. The key. Marry her. Kitchens ton. We just cutting. Sucks man. And the Sunday sun. Get. The Sunday sun chance to Francisco. Then you realize you. We have to watch the. Marry.