15 Episode results for "Liel Liebowitz"

Cohen Chronicles: Ep. 175

Unorthodox

1:04:54 hr | 1 year ago

Cohen Chronicles: Ep. 175

"Hi, shelly. Shallow spe-. No shallow. No, Shelley the Email. Are you? Shallow St. no, high other happen. Shelly you keep thinking it. And then you'd end up just going popping. This is an orthodox the universe is leading Jewish podcast. I am Mark Oppenheimer joined as ever by my co hosts tablets, senior writer, Liel liebowitz Alon with John. I love going. I and tablet deputy editor. Stephanie Budnick this is America. Leo, speak English. Today's Jew of the week is is a two headed Jew. The stars of the off-broadway show. The other Josh Cohen, which is playing for another couple of weeks, and which all three of us have seen and adored. Enter gentle of the week is G Q sports and politics and fatherhood columnists. Drew mcgarry. He writes about about just about everything he has a book out about dad hood. And he's hilarious. So to Jews gentile, lots of fun three opinions three. No, collusion and. In terms of what's up? I'll just start by saying that, you know, Stephanie you got the ball rolling with. Josh Cohen thing. You went to see this off Broadway show the other Josh Cohen. And you came back on a cloud of Stephanie could not have not seen a Broadway show called the other. Josh cohen. I mean, it was like tailor-made for stuff. I was like is. This is Ben co the other Josh Cohen like what the situation guy went to see it. I I brought let I felt I felt I talk about this later. But like, I felt joy. And I just was like I was happy, and you guys have to see this. It's just so sweet and earnest, and so lovely so then I saw your face. And and now do that often. I know and like, I really I mean, they're very few things that I truly despise theater is one of those things that really does not about does joint know that gee, I feel about the the way I feel about museums just gonna sign that. I don't jam. I don't like being close to actors. Why there's a movie like this a perfectly good solution for that that I could watch on my couch and can have cool effects. But since Stephanie smile, I I'm ever right? I went to see this thing. It really restores your faith in mankind. It's a wonderful wonderful wonderful play. And if you like Neil diamond, which why wouldn't you? But you don't have to like you don't have to like diamond. But it helps a lot right? I mean, I took I took Rebecca, and I took my inlaws to see it. So the four of us win. And I don't think Rebecca really knew who Neil diamond was that when I pointed out that he thinks we'd Caroline which you know, she is a sports fan knows because weirdly become an anthem at every live sporting event that excited her and she sort of new Darth Vader was but Darth Vader also functions in the play. But it didn't really matter. I mean, she totally got it. The plays a delight. It's playing till I think April seventh at at this theater on the west side. And and then it's going to tour the universe forever. It was really it was just a swell, and we should tell our listeners. This is not a haven doors, man. This is just us loving play as we would any play that contains the line, but shirt, mother fuckers. It's almost Bray pre hyphen bitches. We're really going down that road. Anyway, you'll hear more from David Ross Moore and Steve Rosen who play the Josh coeds in in a little bit. Stephanie. How is the new newly geo located button it Cohen life. The new residence I will say I was late this morning because it's so much harder for me to leave my apartment now that they're like several different rooms. I also keep losing things we were in a studio for four or five years loved it. It was an amazing amazing place. Great location. We found a place about two blocks away, which is like the radius. I was willing to move so one bedroom and take a pretty size of its I I'm just so my sense of space is so distorted so I was just like this place is huge, Ben. What is this? It's the bedroom. Stephanie, there's a bedroom. It's really crazy separate room for your bed. But the thing is like, okay. So I'm a checker like before I leave the apartment, I check everything before I go to sleep by check everything check the of the stove oven Benz. Like, we don't use the oven. I don't know why your checking it all the time like the lights in this apartment there. So many more things to check that it just takes me a longer time to get out. But I will say the cat has been remarkably docile. Since the move. He was going to ask how cat Stevens is adjusted. The first day he spent the entire day in the bathroom cupboard, which is a new thing that I have cupboard in the bathroom like that thing under the sink. So he spent most of the day in there. He finally like emerged from the closets and under the bed, but he's been very relaxed, and he'll even like let Ben pet him. Wouldn't it be amazing? If the moral of the story is that he's actually a really happy cat who just didn't like living in a really tiny hundred square foot hovel. We'll it's he just wanted to middle class lifestyle base. Yeah. You wanted to he was ready to upwardly mobilize. It's funny because Ben was saying, you know, in the old apartment he'd look like more of a menace because anywhere you wear. You're like, oh where where are you going like in this apartment? He looks like this tiny little cat. I'm like would. So anyway, things are going really well in my life excellently all our things may while in your life things are going so well this week has been this past week has been the moth week in the liebowitz household, first of all some of our listeners may have heard my story about my shall we say misbehaved father that story is included in the newly released just out last week. The moth presents occasional magic true stories about defying the impossible. So if you want to read the story and other stories by Krista Tippett and resent cash in a fear. Eisenberg was our guest on the show and a lot of others. You should check it out. But also last Friday, I told a brand new story on the moth, and it was special for two reasons. First of all it was in Lincoln center. And my story did include a bit of singing. So now, I get to say that I sang onstage at Lincoln center forms. But the the weirdest thing was so I don't. To give away too much of the story. Because I I hope you know, our listeners would listen to it when it comes out, but it involved an interaction I had with with the woman who, you know, passed away, and I wanted to be very respectful of the women's I gave zero details you cannot identify this person. If you just listen to the story, and I come back to my seat. This is Lincoln center is like a big plays. And I chose a seat completely at random because I knew I was going to be in St. show. I picked like a seed in the fourth row that would be convenient to get up and down where you left your backpack. Basically. Right. And I get back to my seat and the woman sitting next to me, it was complete stranger is crying sobbing hysterically as my story was sad. But wasn't that sad? Like, I'm a good storyteller. I'm not that good a storyteller. So as go like, hey, you know, everything. Okay. And she looks at me, and she's a very striking looking woman. He's wearing this kind of like native America. Even like shirt with beads, and she's looking at me, and she said the woman you were talking about was it blankety blank. And I'm like, oh my God. Yes. It was this is the freaky thing. This woman intuited via the cosmic vibes of the universe that. I was talking about her friend who she knew well who, you know, played a major part in her life. And I I'm sitting there completely dumbfounded. And then, of course, the first thing I do is I text the two of you saying, hey, can you believe it? And then I tell you Mark the name of the woman that I talked to the person sitting next to me. And you're like, oh, you mean, my college roommate? Well, she lived upstairs. She lived up. Right. I am too. It'd from the little information you gave me the woman sobbing next to you was. So basically, we're all in this in this web of connectivity in the universe. That goes back to to the moth. And to end to God and to God and to God that was so Leo usually one of one of my proudest things is that I introduced you to Catherine burns of the moth, you are now like it's like if she can't get David sedaris, then she gets Adam gopnik, and if you can't get GOP, Nick, she gets Liel liebowitz like. Like thirty other people, but probably like number sixty three is me. And I'm very proud because I I love I love I love these guys. And I'm so grateful to you for the introduction and he's taken over your mouth stat status. Basically. I mean, I still allow me to plug that. I still I still run the storytelling event with Catherine burns at at at Yale thread, thread dot, Yale dot EDU. We're doing it again this June and Catherine comes and the magic she works talking about storytelling and how how it moves people. And how it it changes lives is I hear it every year at that event. But then Leila's this story that's like he sits down into seat, and literally the woman is sobbing next to him. That's it was too much too much. Will we ever get to hear that story? Leon are they going to put that on their national show? I hope so God willing in Inshallah as you would say speaking of performing I just want to run something by you guys and the whole J crew. So I teach this lecture class in creative writing and and to undergrads. And about three weeks ago. A student came up to me and said. Mr. Oppenheimer were raising money for this do-gooder organization helps homelessness and our fundraiser based on a fundraiser they've done at that other Ivy league university at Harvard is that we ask a faculty members to perform in a standup comedy show would be willing to do ten or twelve minutes of standup comedy along with these four or five other faculty members who have already agreed to do it. And I had this moment where I thought we'll we'll shit like a I'm flattered like, I have a hard time saying no to anything right now you end up at like Brigham Young University several times a year. That's right. Like I wanted this. Will you buy me? Will you buy me a Frappuccino? I'm in. But then I and so I said, yes. And then I thought about that. Wait, a second literally everything that I think is funny is something that will offend these students and probably get me fired. There is no bit of my sense of humor. Like, my sense of humor was forged in like herald Ramos movies, exactly early eighties player is. So then I so then I tracked this student down. And I said I said like, Sarah, I have a problem going to be honest with you, right? I said you do understand that the stuff that forty four year old men who grew up on eighties teen sex comedies. Find funny is not stuff that your generation jams with comfortably. And she at first you didn't know what is talking about. And then I sort of explained it was like, well, do you think like, you know, jokes about women's anatomy are funny, and do you think that jokes about like, do you think bullyings funny like we used to think bullying was hilarious? Right. So I slow he took off the nine things. I. I think are funny in her face, slowly falls. And then finally, she's like, well, I'm sure you. Boobs at the time. He got rectal cancer. She was like, yeah. You probably should not do this show. Well, that's what I was hoping it was going to get off the hook. And instead she like her face, slowly sank and sank in sank and at the end, her smile like picked up against it. Well, you're really good. I'm sure you'll find a way to walk that line. So I think the college scandal gave you a really huge opening like Jaren notice how you're only here because your dad paid three hundred thousand dollars to admissions. I will say that that's the material I'm working on as I do dishes every night, the material that's mumbling to myself in my head, doesn't it doesn't not deal with the fact that you could buy your way onto a fake no-show position on yell soccer team guys just assure me here that I'm not actually going to end my career of it. Stand up for undergrads. And I I wanna say it probably won't be worth it. I think that's right. I would like to attend this this event, definitely go. I mean, here's the thing is like the best case scenario is that I do. Okay. Right. That I don't I don't cancel my existence on Twitter with jokes that offend undergrads. And that the other faculty members are like plausible like the best case in areas. It's an evening of mediocre stand up comedy. And the worst case scenario is you never hear from me again. So to news of the Jews, Michael Steinhardt, the Jewish billionaire mega donor. They're always called mega donors. He's up. He's a mega donor has been the subject of a big article in the new mega mega article which tells more about the mega allegations that were reported in the Jewish week earlier this year, which is that he's a creep absorbed. Sexual harasser allegedly who makes comments to female underlings about how they should reproduce and have more babies and also maybe invited a couple of them into a threesome at one point. And you know, there's not a lot to say about this. It's obviously creepy if true, it's like completely horrible. You know, I guess it's just a big full disclosure from the entire Jewish community that we've all in some way benefited from his money. I mean in my case, he's one of the major funders of the birthright trip to Israel. I went on that birthright trip. I now feel like my birthright trip was three percent. It already was. I don't you know, bedouin ten the Eit will never look so wholesome again is what you're saying. The interesting thing the article in the New York Times was by Hannah Dreyfuss who was a former tablet intern and Sharon Otterman, and it was with a series in conjunction with propublica. And the interesting thing is how hard it is to get people to talk on the record for these types of stories because you realize that actually what you said he does fund a lot of organizations, and there are a lot of women who didn't give their name for fear of having professional backlash. And I think it's it's really it's sad. But it's good that we're exposing the fact that like a lot of the Jewish world is sort of incestuous in the way that there's a few funders, and they do a ton of projects, and then you can like by virtue of where you fall on this food chain like you might not be able to speak out because your the funder of your organization or a partial funder or a big donor is is this person. You know what Stephanie Budnick? That's I'm so glad you pointed that out that's totally true. I have another point I want to make a Jewish funding. There's only a few donors who actually give it, and they tend to be of a particular ideology, and they tend to be. Bullies. And so if you don't get like, if you're not getting Steinhardt money or Bronfman money or Shusterman money or singer money, or whatever there aren't so many other options because a lot of the Jews who would be a little more. Let's say liberal or freethinking or whatever on certain of these topics don't give to Jewish causes. Right. So David Geffen is a billionaire Jew. But he's not gonna fill in the money that Michael Steinhardt or Sheldon Adelson Yanks out from under you. So the donors who do consistently give to Jewish causes how this outside influence because actually there aren't that many of them? So yes, I mean, you're Stephanie's completely right? Which is part of the story here is you know, that a few funders basically can get away with what they want for. And there are whispers about Steinhardt for a long long long long time. So anyway onto some happier news, Leo. Do you want to take us across the pond if not to Belgium, perhaps to a neighboring country say Germany this week? I really I don't I don't know how we would ever top this. I'm just. Going to be the headline. This is from the New York Post this morning family behind crispy cream, ten their bread. Is sane brothers bagels admits to Nazi ties. The German family beyond crispy cream donuts Bonaire bread. Jane is brothers bagels is finally come clean about the reported connection to the Nazis. It just all correct said the family spokesperson Peterhof one of the two managing partners of J, AB holdings, a private conglomerate. So it's nothing to gloss over he said, these kinds disgusting. Be fished apologize for blood boil in Pinera zipper orbit by concentration camp prisoners. Also at Kohl's a baked potato soup is just nine hundred and forty calories. It is not a good soup at all. Now, you're getting into like photo Indian here. I say brothers big like what else proof? Do you need that? It's like the worst bagel in the universe way to say literally Nazi bagels. The story is that these icon American brands, I mean crispy cream for crying out loud, a are controlled by a German. Conglomerate would you know, they're literally just poisoning us with chemicals and making us fat and be it's a German conglomerate that used slave labor Derg World War Two, you sink, you fund civil, but V have Panella if ways of making you pay so my favorite thing. So the Washington Post article is the headline is a little bit more concise. It says German billionaire family that owns Einstein brothers bagels admits Nazi past as though like which of them would be the most like cutting like the bagel people have a Nazi past. There were like who cares about going to speak Cree? I mean, I actually thought there were two brothers named Einstein in the kitchen boiling, the banding. It's like Randy called like Noah, Einstein companies voting at this point oboe, Stillman feuded Einstein owned, his brother. Other. But basically, the story here is actually really kind of kind of interesting that the grandparents or whatever they were the the senior and the junior of the family who are both dead that they were involved in Nazi era stuff, and they were like about it. I said might and they were really into Hitler. But the family and it's unclear if this happened wants reporters started digging, but the family apparently like commissioned a historian to find out there. What was sort of what the situation was which meant they probably knew something. I mean, look like these were like rich Germans who were running companies in the Nazi era who were not hassled. So you have to imagine like sort of like not super surprised, but basically this this historian is like hasn't. It's it's a Paul erker of Munich university. He was commissioned in two thousand fourteen to study the family's ties the Nazi regime, and he says he is he hasn't finished his research yet. But he does not have an exact date when he expected to have his report ready. Yes. And found the really bad stuff yet. But you know, that famous movie clip that has gone viral from then movie downfall of Hitler in the bunker about to commit suicide realizing the war is lost. You know that one with Bruno Ganz. Tried. And they always have the me about it. Look, I'm imagining this like the two brothers of this family being like everything is we've lost a war. Like, don't worry one day. We will take every foodstuff. They hold. Dear turn it into crap. You could get it airports, and but basically they're donating the families donating like ten million euros. They say to a to an organization somewhat unorthodox rhyming say listen now that now that you can no longer launder your evil passed by giving to the southern poverty Law Center. How about if you want if you want to expiate and wash away your past sins? Just I mean, give to Jewish podcast, really. We will on you can talk about how terrible you feel. You know, we'll hug it out. I also have some holocaust slash Nazi related. Good. Oh, good. It's one of those weeks has been by the way a week in which we did not have Nazi related news. I don't think there was in three years. I don't think there's been a single week without a Nazi or just the gift that keeps on giving. Keep do that a little bit the donkey. Yeah. So okay. Here's a tweet from DWI news. And it says the Auschwitz Birkenau memorial museum has implored visitors to respect the memories of the one point one million people who were killed at the concentration camp and not to balance on the train tracks. So apparently instead of like selfish at Auschwitz, the new thing is people posing on the freaking train tracks. And I'm looking at slide two of them, and it's like people balancing people smiling while sitting on them, and you're like, you're literally look at this photo. This is just like a cute little girl. Her faces blurred sitting posing on the train tracks Auschwitz being like, you know, what this would actually make a really good Graham to the Jane Shvets and meeting you on Instagram. I think that this. This is like one of those this happens all the time. But I will say like remember how Gabby Gershon last week was saying there's something about like the fluidity of Jewish food. Like, maybe this is what's going to keep people coming to these memorial sites. And they now they have now they have photos of them posing there. So now, everyone's kind of aware at least, we're. I don't know. I wanna find something good in the story longtime listeners of this show know that there are few human beings, whom I deplore more than Nazis. One possible contender for that role would be a Barbra Streisand. Shots fired over here. All right. That's not fair. It's more just like at least we can all agree, Nazis or bad. Whereas stray sad people some people just fabulous. My argument has long been that she has she has really good pipes. Right. She can she can carry a tune and for like three. But instead of using her pipes, she's busy curing her Dom in inner basement while James Brolin lovingly looks on and holds one of their clones micro dogs. I just think it's such a waste of time. It's a little sham. It's like God it spitting and God's face. Would you be given that talent? Now as if to prove her utter worthlessness, I can I just tell me sides, Streisand is amazing like somebody needs to say that here. Nope. Not me. Harby monsters, you guys mysteries stand with Mark. Totally. She can match pitch, right? She'd be a great high school music teacher. I nominate her for that Lee reboots everyone right anyway until Mark he's wrong. See if your defense hold of after we remind our listeners our beloved listeners in the J crew that this week Barbra Streisand told reporters about Michael Jackson, quote, his sexual needs were his sexual needs coming from whatever childhood he has or whatever DNA has you can say molested, but those children as you heard say they were thrilled to be there. They both married children. So it didn't kill them that what's so great about this. Stephanie Taylor button IC is that it kind of dovetails with my criticism of heart, which is that instead of remaining engaged committed artists and doing good work. She's like like flitted away into that ethos fear of celebrity like nonsensical uselessness. That that happens to really rich and famous people when they don't take their own talents. Seriously. And now she's saying utterly named things. Excusing Jacko because they were sort of weird celebrity friends the way that he was friends with like, Ricky Schroder and the way that also liberties pretend to be friends on the red carpet like she's become a non human. And I you know, what can one say. I mean. Yeah. I mean, I think this is obviously a misstep and something really awful to say, I don't think that this like detracts from the canon of Barbra Streisand's work. I think that like she said a dumb thing. And I imagine she'll be apologizing for it. I am in favor of all of us buying as many of her records as we were going to buy. Anyway, I agree it shouldn't affect her career. But we what's a record. Barbara streisand. The main thing. Barbara streisand. Barbara streisand. Last week. We sat down with David Ross Mer and Steve Rosen. The two stars of the other. Josh Cohen would Stephanie button had seen and was urging us to see. And at the time. This interview Lee Ellen. I had not yet seen the show, but we had a wonderful conversation with them. Nonetheless, have a listen. We are here with two Jews David Ross Moore and Steve Rosen polo from the other Josh Cohen. It's an off Broadway show. They wrote the book music and lyrics for and that they co star in as the same. Character welcomes leave and David. Please sit downs note onstage you guys Josh Cohen, and that's right high. So you guys play the same character. Josh Cohen in the show. But I wanted to give you the chance to introduce yourself separately here for our for our listeners. I mean, we can. But frankly, we are literally attached at the hip for like the last seven months just feel where we're sitting across the table from each other and too far too far enter tells who you are I'm David Ross Mer I play Josh Cohen in the present telling the story of what happened to me one year ago when the world was essentially crapping on me from every direction and I play. My name is Steve Rosen, and I play the same exact character one year ago while the world is crapping on him relentlessly, and we get to interact with each other. And it's about watching someone sort of talked and deal with themselves in the past which we all wish we could do. Sometimes give ourselves advice. Tell ourselves life will be. Okay. You're later while in the actual moment, you see the pain of actually going through that with someone who is able to provide hindsight into how this was a necessary part of the journey the low humor about it. Okay. So Stephanie has seen the show and loved it. My and in and I was like when I've never sm- like literally smiling the whole time, and I was like this feels weird on my face. What is happening to me? This midnight emergency slack message saying we have to have the Coens on our show. So but for me not seen it yet. I think we're gonna make a date to go. See it together. Maybe even with our wives. Tell us about the show. What what happens? I mean, it essentially answers the question of what would you do if a stranger since you a check in the mail for fifty six thousand dollars, and it's the sort of trials and tribulations around Valentine's Day. So there's sort of romantic comedy element to it where it's like a perfect date show two or if you're single a lot of couples have come out of it. And since we've done the show for a couple of years, we actually the stage manager and the associate stage manager and now have a child together. So it's the show is an a macro level. Kind of a good luck. You're date base. I actually had like a J night where like people came in and hooked up, but at trickle, but that's essentially the story and he comes home on Valentine. Hines day to three letters in his mailbox Valentine's Day card from his mother. A Bill for bird clock on that got stolen because at the beginning of the show is apartment is completely robbed of everything. But a Neil diamond CD that he stole from the back of his parents car, and the third letter is the sketchy little envelope with no return address and inside is this enormous amounts of money, and he has to sort of figure out if it's for him if it's for someone else, and he goes on this crazy journey of twists and turns. And it's essentially a job story, which you can say on it Jewish podcast and everyone understands otherwise listen to transcribe. I hate my job. But it's essentially a job story about someone who continues to try and do the right thing and continually pays the price for doing the right thing. And somehow in getting losing this thing he thought he needed finds what he actually needs. So how did you decide, you know, David you get to play like happy? Josh Cowan a year later, you're like fully evolved fully realized and Steve you play like kind of like a schmuck. Like, it's things suck for you. I feel bad. How did you decide who who did what? That's so interesting. I thought it was the other way around the happier one it worked out just this way that David and I have David I've been playing together we've known each other since we were kids we met at summer camp. Of course, he did French woods catskill doubt was shot onto French wolves. So we we've been sort of developing it onstage report and working together for years and years, and one of the elements that we were thinking in basing a lot of the show, the, you know, the score sounds like a long lost Neil diamond album because. Like David said, it's the only thing left in his apartment. The real reason is the David plays the guitar, and I don't so it was an important thing for narrator. Josh to be able to be like a ballot ear throughout the show walking around looking slick being able to play the guitar, and I could grow much better moustache than David could by the way. Yeah. You could that is an precedent. Most appreciate and whereas whereas you could someday learn to play the guitar you'll never be able to grow that kind of money. That's exactly right. I'm telling you whenever he gives rubbing and then my face like a beard situation. It's growing in. Maybe it's got a fantastic facial sort of, you know, culturally presence semitic kind of straight up down the middle looks right. Yes. Gruff or also known as SCRUFF SCRUFF. What you shave every day? I mean, you're you're totally is a sponsor of this podcast. No one reads, those ads with more gusto that contract with obligated to shave everyday. I also I mean, this this segment is certainly if ever the same and it's not about me. It's this one I just like being smooth. In a bad mood, depth strop. So there there's the long short of it. But back to you guys. So he wrote you wrote this play. Yeah. And and not really is what he's saying is true. Because all the all the actors in the play when you got what you guys will see when you come on your date play instruments. So the entire cast is also kind of a rock band, and it's amazing to watch them. And it's why like tourists who don't even speak English like love the show because you just see people switching instruments some people pay like twelve to fifteen instruments in the show. You'll just see them with the clarinet. And then Secondly, they're banging out on the drums, and it's just like sort of magically if you can't play guitar. I know I play a bunch of other instruments got in the show. I don't really play anything cast. It is if you only sort of play one instrument like, I do I play too. But if you don't want, and you look at this cast, and they are literally passing each other instance, we had one incident while we were trying to stage a number, but we realized just the easier thing to do is if everyone just moved there instrument to the left and played that one instead and. They were able to do it instantly. And they're also they're all Menchie, and they're all like, really, creative and funny, and it really does feel like a rock band. That is one thing that always struck me is like almost magical about doing theater you've been doing this awhile now, and how do you take the stage with the same gusto with the same sense of wonder where the same emotional attachment? This is not you know, let's do four takes the camera this night after night after night, there's a relentless groundhog day quality and being a theater actor this show in particular. I feel some shows it's difficult to do that on a nightly basis, if it's like long days journey and tonight, I have no idea was people do that. But our show's heavily. Well, that's it. Right. This our show is ninety minutes of nonstop like fun, and it's like a roller coaster ride to get on. And it's it is a workout and its way it isn't ninety minute workout for us, which is great. But I get to work every day with my best friend telling a story that we thought of together that is making people. Like, Stephanie smile, and I never mind she never smoked and getting getting to entertain people and make people feel better after the show. This is a strange phenomenon with the show. I've never experienced anything else. I've done that. We would get to the lobby after the show, and there are strangers people waiting for us there who felt the just the nerd the the need to stay and talk to us about this experience that they've had that they've been moved by it in such a way that they were in a very low place. They needed to be reminded of the message. Welcome to our lives come out to be like my face detaining you. That's it on the stage. The place called the other. Josh cohen. I saw an ad for it on a taxi as I was on my way here this morning. I was like how do they know? Josh coen? What other names like what other names were in the running? Besides Josh Stephanie is married to Ben married to a Ben coach. And he's really asking. Did you think Ben Cohen? Zac, Goldberg used any of your actual real. Save roseau. It's obviously not as good. But, but no, the the the truth is that Josh Cohen just felt like the Joe Smith of Jewish name is which has a lot to do with the show because there's a lot of mistaken identity, but I will tell you. So that was the only name I should say that I have an ex girlfriend who is Sarah Levin. So know, I mean, I know there's there's a there's a girl, I know her I think. Yeah. She's listening right now. Josh Cohen proved immediately successful because right after we I did the first incarnation. We got a call from the Josh Kohn, we knew from summer dice. And he was like, please call me back, and I call them back. And he was like I'm very upset. I don't know why you would write a musical about me and not tell me. I find of new acquaintance, but we didn't know you. Well, of course, this is a story about us. We would never write a musical about you. And he said, oh because I'm broke I'm alone. I like Neil diamond. And we thought okay, I think we have something a little more universal here than we thought and leader NPR came into the future on our show. And they brought like fifteen Josh Coen's to the show. And they said, you know, one of them went to summer camp with you. And we said, yes. Like we had three heads. It was like, no that's not the Josh Cody. There's another. Josh Cohen also gone the summer camp woods was just filled. It's impossible not. Yeah. And there were there were parallels with his life in the show. Is that one of those those theater theater? He camps. It is like, yeah. Sure. Is they have a basketball team, but that's really just sort of a front for the modern dance. Of course, the court needs resurfacing badly. I have to say someone a theatre games played on it as somebody who a bit of a less talented theatre dork in in my in my youth. No. Oh, yeah. Even I was terrified. I was like theater camp. I bet those guys are real weirdos. That was like I should have gone because actually they were my people. But I was afraid of what it would say about me if I went, so I guess I'm saying muzzle tough to kudos to you for knowing your true, selves, go. Let's be honest. It was our parents not wanting us. I had gone to cook your sports academy for a few summers. And there was clearly in the wrong place where my father-in-law used to go to try to meet babes doc in. Doc in the fifties. Right. Ski. They're totally. In the software company. So smart Josh Cohen's get free admission because they should they get swag. Oh, they do becoming a name is Josh Cohen, you tell someone you will at least get a button. Yes. Of course, anyone could say Joschka we were on our way out. I took a friend. And she was like do you want to get a magnet for Ben? And it was like, no, I think it would be too awkward like it's too close. But it's sort of like it would feel like sort of like cheating on him a little bit with Josh. Seth Cohen is number one. So what's the plan for the play? Where does it go where to go from here? Well, we were fortunate enough. We only thought we were supposed to go to February. And we extended an extended now till April. Fortunately, and now world takeover, essentially, we there there's a bunch of theatres. I wanna do it around the country. There's there's there's touring in the works. There's even bigger things like looking at it as a film or like a lot of shows now are being recorded in and presented so like can reach a wider audience around the country who are loving to watch theater now. And also, there's talk of it can translate to television. Can you tell us have show about a guy who sort of talks to himself a year ago, and sort of watches himself go through like a kind of Jewish how I met your mother, meet Seinfeld or something. And then it kind of Jewish. Ajoy seinfeld. What did you think? That's right socially, when you think of taking the show on the road. Are you kind of thinking about how Peoria Illinois? Ability to translate to other cities. It's interesting. You don't actually have to just cone in the title. But we have found that people who are not Jewish respond to it very well to our actually our first commercial producer. We ever had was like a someone who was from China who thought that the family resembled her family, of course. But yeah, I mean, I think I think the show can play in major metropolitan cities, of course, where there is a Jewish population. But I think there is something universal to the story. And you'll see when you come see it that like even though there's the cast is seven people they play over fifty five different characters this show will wind up being done, we expect high schools JCC's and community favourites towards the French woods. I can't wait to see that. All my God. I you like kind of like you're the returning heroes. If you go to French with there's no one bigger than. Yeah. Well, there is because Adam LeVine also went oh fuck that guy to see. You want to see you know, the other atom. Give us a taste because I know our listeners are going to hear this. I'm going to rush to get there before it leaves New York for see it in other cities. Can you give us like a little song a song something? I know it's early. It's hard to do a cappella, it's not, you know. That's amazing album that people can listen to if they wanted to to hear about it filled with big Broadway stars and big life stars. Oh, yeah. Before we cast the show we wanted to make an album. So we went in the studio, and we had created the show called don't quit your night job, which was sort of this after hours variety show. We raise tons of money for great charity open doors, and all the stars from their shows would come after their shows and be part of this. They would do improv and musical mad lives. I come out, and like a mad live and in sting would come out and sing like every breath. You take with the new words and all these people had been fans of us and come and seeing the show and loved it. So they all came into the studio. So the best example, you can do is go listen to this. Kelli O'Hara and Chita Rivera and some foster and Brian D'Arcy James and James I go hard from Anka's area right because area Simpson James road day. So where do people go listen to that anywhere? You can stream music or you can buy CDs. That's with a computer, which will bring on a computer. Actually, the one thing that remains in your apartment when it is robbed. Exactly, David Ross MARCY rose. And thank you so much the other. Josh Cohen, see it while you can. Honest. Sixty. What the hell and nothing I owned. Yes. Stephen, david. They play job Cohen Josh Cohen in the other Cohen, the show is running in New York, April seventh you can get your tickets at other. Josh Cohen dot com. Listen things are probably starting to get pretty hectic in your house as we get closer to pass over. I know they are in mind, and there's a way to make your life a little bit easier. That way comes from our sponsor J. Chef J chef delivers all the ingredients you need to cook. Delicious kosher recipes without flapping to the market you can choose from hardy meat fish chicken and vegetarian meal kits customized to your family size. So whether you're just a singleton, or you've got a brute of eight kids, here's a meal for you. There's even a special about dinner kit for when you're having over the whole mission Boca these meal kits are fresh ingredients detailed instructions even pictures to make preparation of breeze. I have used Jay chef you should use J. Chef they use only the highest quality certified kosher meat, fish, poultry and produce these aren't meals you should be ashamed of. I mean, these are real really good meals. Good portions of good food. And if you order between now in Passover Dacia has a special offer, not only will unorthodox listeners. Get thirty percent discount off your first order, but if you refer a friend who plays. There's an order. You get a classic you'll box for free. There's no limit refer three friends get three free classic meal boxes, if you've got enough hungry friends who want high quality great tasting easy to prepare kosher meal boxes, you could be set for now through Pesach, you could be set forever. And speaking of Pesach check back with Jay chef website. They'll be shipping. KM approved pays off meals throughout the holiday to listen, go to chef dot com slash unorthodox. Get thirty percent off your first order get all those free classic meal kits for referring friends, and they will shift anywhere in the US except for the west coast. But that will come soon Jay chef dot com slash unorthodox, code unorthodox thirty. Are you guys I'm actually recording at live from Pittsburgh? And you better believe that when I get up at four in the morning to fly to Pittsburgh to do my reporting. I wanna be smooth all day when I'm traveling. That's really what I want to be the smoothest. I wanna be smooth in the morning smooth in the evening, and I'm smooth with Harry's. Their founders were tired of paying for razors that were overpriced. And over designed a new a great shave doesn't come easy. So they bought a factory in Germany that's been making high quality blades for over ninety five years. The replacement cartridges are two dollars each that's half the price of the. Yeah. We'll say it of the fusion pro shield, so listen, get your thirteen dollars value trial set for a close, comfortable shave. It includes a weighted, ergonomic handle, five blade razor with a lubricating strip and trimmer blade, rich, lathering shave gel travel blade cover. What a Harry's dot com slash unorthodox to redeem that trial said do it now be smooth tomorrow. So guys, you can see us live. We're going to be at various places. Stephanie where are you going to be tonight? The night. This episode airs March twenty eighth I will be at the Jewish book council's unpacking the book event, which I moderate at the Jewish museum this week. I'll be talking to Nathan Englander about his new novel cottage dot com, which is excellent. And Rebecca Sofer about modern loss the book she co wrote, and which she spoke about on this podcast with gowdy Berkner her co writer, the event is free, and you can reserve your spot at the Jewish museum website. And then on Monday, April first tristate area fans of our one hundred Jewish foods episode can join Alana Newhouse for a conversation at the Marlene, Meyerson JCC Manhattan. It's about understanding and loving and sometimes hating Jewish food, and she'll be up there with Jeffrey Esko wits, NAMA Sheffi and Gabriella Gershon all of whom you heard on last week's show, you can get your ticket at JC, Manhattan dot org. Excellent. I myself giving a few talks in the next couple of months. I'll be. At Smith College in Northampton, Massachusetts on April eleventh. I know we have fans in western New England so come on down and see me I would love that on April twenty eighth. I'll be doing one day university again in New York City. I'll be talking about American Jews. Where are we? Now, you can find out more at one day, you dot com and on may thirtieth. I will be emceeing the gala of our sponsor Hebrew college. They're doing a storytelling gala. They're going to have some people from their community. Get up and tell moth style stories that evening, it'll be very exciting. It's may thirtieth. For more information. Go to Hebrew colleges website. Juma Gary is a columnist for G Q in deadspin and the author of novels like the post, mortal and the fall and the memoir someone could get hurt a memoir of twenty-first-century parenthood. Hydro. Hi, how are you guys doing? We are good. We're really excited to have you on the show. We wanted to have you on for a while. And you actually wrote a column this week that is just like the perfect jumping off point. It's called. Why won't the mayo bullies leave us alone? And the first sentence is I hate mayonnaise. So. Snoozing mayonnaise is like deeply Jewish food. You're gentile of the week. But we feel you on that you really like your with our people on that. Yeah. And I grew up in the midwest too. So as a mid western Goi, I'm like ninety percent mayonnaise. Anyway yet. It's disgusting. It's like being served my own blood. Oh, thank you. I more or less agree. Once in a while. I don't mind it as as a moisture as they say. Oh way a big a doubt. But it is my perception that in the mid west if one grows up gentility as you did they put as in every I mean, everything's a casserole with like jello, tuna-fishing mayonnaise. Right. That was a real disability for you dietetic -ly. It was except the only people who weren't mandates believes in my lifetime. Where my parents I told him I didn't like it. And they didn't give me manny's funny. How that works. But everyone else you tell them, and they're like, well like what you said like Morrison save I can moisten crap other way like like they add to it. But it's a binding agent. They're like Yoda talking about the force. Just just leave it. I don't want. It binding my food. I don't want it in every aspect of my food. It's disgusting. Mayonnaise leads to spams family. It's great. So see reading your essay. I actually realized something really important that I hadn't realized before that there's actually kind of an interesting mix between midwestern and Isreaeli food because in Israel. We put new on EV every teeny. No, we call. So when you were in the army, you get bread with something sandwich. Simplest and sandwich spread as mayo with bits of like process, like peas frozen carrots. Oh, amazing. That's too disgusting. Mickey honorary British people for. So this is actually your second hot food hot take on food this year you so you're really on fire. You wrote something that really roiled our Facebook page people were sharing it like left and right? It's called bagel sandwiches. Why? And it's all about how I if I may read a beautiful bit from it. You, and you know, you say please note that I issued this take as a card carrying gentile and somebody who has never actually made a bagel from scratch. So you've really sort of clear the air on that. But you say the standard operating procedure of most bagel shops is to serve your bagel and smoked salmon as a full on sandwich with the cream cheese, and smoked fish jammed inside the full bagel this in my opinion. This is in my opinion, a sub optimal way of enjoying a bagel bagels sandwiches are dumb. Just bagel sandwiches are dome was the original headline. But we changed. The didn't make people less mad when we change the headline. Anyway, there were like SEO clicky. So this is really interesting because I feel like you are culinary speaking quite Jewish at heart because I'm about to. I don't know how my Jewish co hosts are going to react when I say this. I don't think of I think of bagel sandwiches as a way of eating a bagel like growing up. You got bagels the bagel store. You slice them in half. You toast to them. You took them out. And you put some some cream cheese on each half. And maybe some tomato or locks and you ate it. The idea that you'd put it in a sandwich. Feels very like post two thousand five like spread of lender's bagels or brewers to America like made it palatable for the goyim in Iowa. Right. Like, so I'm with you there. I think that, you know, real bagel eating slicing in half toasting, both halves and eating it so kudos to you. I think the Jews need to hear your message is what I'm saying. Thank you, hire greed that I'm right essentially to the Jews need to hear a message and Mark what he said of things. Absolutely, correct. The bagel is now become America's, you know, pastry. It's like pizza. Yeah. It's no longer a Jewish thing. It's only fitting that drew mcgarry is the new king of Bago. We pass on the baton. It's yours. Now if you're ever in New York come eat bagels with us. But I wanna tell you about some of the other things you write because you don't write hot takes on on snack food. You have written this book that I really enjoy called someone could get hurt a memoir of twenty-first-century parenthood. And I'll tell you my own personal experience with it. Which is I read it about a year and a half ago. Okay. I loved it sold it to the used bookstore. For because I wasn't going to reread it. And when we did. Yeah. And then when we found it we're having you on the show. I wanted it back to reread it. So I went to the us books or they didn't have any more. So I bought another copy. So you've got to sales retail from. I think it's interesting you and Jason gay of the Wall Street Journal or both sports writers who have now written parenting stuff. And I'm intrigued by the move there. I I sometimes get the feeling that sports is populated by people who are sort of only incidentally interested in sports like it's fine. There's a career writing about it. But actually have other things to say, and you've written a scifi novel, and you've written about parenting, and like how much do you actually care about sports? All I love sports. I mean, one of the reasons I write for deadspin one of the reasons I sort as a reader in commenter, deadspin, I and one of the reasons deadspin exists was because not the sports writers. Didn't have weren't interested in sports. But that the nature of the job eventually led them to hating sports because they you know, they hated being in a, you know, being a press box until why am watching like an extra innings baseball game and having to file on deadline. And so they end up resenting, the very thing that they're supposed to be covering, which is great if you're covering politics. But you know, if you're if you're a sports fan. Yeah. You want you want the person covering the sport, you want the sense that they actually like the sport not to the degree that insane football people. Right. Like par Schuyler Murray. You know, what you had for lunch and all that stuff, or, you know, analyzes bagel takes and then knocking bound draft board. But no, I like sports. So you say you worked your way from comment or were you already a professional writer, but then on your downtime. You were giving free commentary to the comment section on deadspin. Or were you like, you know, selling life insurance? And then they realized this guy in the comments section actually has a really good voice. How did that work? I was a copywriter. I wrote ads. I worked in an ad agency. I had my own blog back when blogger was sort of Nassan and starting up where I write about being a deck 'cause I just had my first kid and back in the day. If you come on deadspin, someone clicked on your name in the comments. It took the went right to your whatever website you wanted. So you could essentially this is gross downing, but it was an excise and self branding, where if you left a clever comment, people would click through and go to your blog and give it traffic and read your stuff. And that was how I got to know we'll Leach the founder of deadspin. And I started ks k which was its own football side. And he liked that. And then I got a job writing it that's been through that. But yeah, I started as a lowly commenter. That's so that that's like could that even happen today? I don't know either people moving up from the comments section on anything or from their own blogs into or it has to be on social media now, I guess you move from Twitter to getting a writing career rate. That's right. Yeah. It's more social media driven now. Now, we still there. I have colleagues who started in the comments section at deadspin. And but I know other people who've gotten jobs off of Twitter and the guy who is now. Interim. I know I don't want to say CEO, get the title wrong. But the guy who is now interim head of Espy nation. He was discovered via Twitter. So it does it does happen a lot. Now. That's nothing. I know a guy who liked became president off of Twitter. Yeah. So not a good, dad. Let's talk to people who spend time to Howard Stern that he loves his daughter. Very very very very very drew as our Genta of the week. You are you know, able to ask us a question about Judaism about anything that's going on related to Jews? How much driving do I have to do during button mitzvah season, my hosed? Yeah. You're kinda hosed. I mean, so how old are your kids? My daughter is thirteen. So it's so she's yeah. She's about to be into the weeds. It is on. Right. Well, I mean does she does she do you? Let her hang out with Jews. I mean, just you know, a lot of two to are you one of those suburbs? That's actually filled with Jews. Yeah. I live in suburban Maryland. And the us there are there are people there are there are Hebrews there. So I will just interestingly I've been down to greater Washington four my daughter's by mitzvah season. My daughter goes to camper Ma in New England who's conservative Jewish district is New England plus greater DC because New York and Pennsylvania in the middle had their own camp camp situation. So I've been down to DC for that. I've been up to Boston a couple of times I've been to Hartford. Yeah. You could end up doing a lot of driving. I mean what you need. Is you need some good books? But here's the thing. And I say, this is someone who's read your books. I know that you like the rest of us parents value time away from the sort of hubbub of the immediate family. It's tie. Like, it's time for you. And your daughter you go off you leave early in the morning, you drive, then you go to Starbucks for five hours, or whatever, and you just chill acts like you don't have to stay at the synagogue Lord knows some of the Jewish. Parents don't. So, you know, you see it as time away from the other two kids and your wife, and you can make a make thing out of it. We could write you a note, by the way, if you want to sit it out. Yeah. When I was a kid. I went to a lot of kid. And I I, you know, it's like it's like a wedding where you're you're winning for the party afterward, totally toad. But I remember I remember enjoying this. I mean, enjoying is a strong word. I remember not I remember in surviving meserve recognizing that. It was the thing that happened. I have to say I have very I grew up on island where I had a bar mitzvah like six times in a weekend. It was the highlight of my social life. Everything went downhill after eighth grade. But I have very fond memories of my dad picking us up after like the afternoon party or even the night party in like taking us to the diner and then waiting while. We went to the diner and then like driving us all home. And it was just like to me is still like one of the sweetest things. He did that was like a Saturday night midnight. He'd just like let us feel like we were grown up going to the diner. And then drove us all home, by the way, you go to a diner. Yeah. No Hicks, and I'm going to give you to tell you some that you're going to be so grateful for. Which is you may have asked yourself or you may be about what is the appropriate gift for about mitzvah, and I'm gonna give you I'm not from New York. I'm from small town New England. So the answer is a check in a multiple of eighteen because that's the Jewish, you know, numeral number for for life and good luck eighteen dollars. And if you're feeling really generous thirty six he's varies between suburbs. Yeah. But you don't have to go above that. I'm telling you thirty six dollars, and and don't let anyone tell you. It has to be one hundred eighty or whatever because you know, it might be for Sheldon Adelson's kids, but or Robert crafts, but for this what your daughter travelled. I'm telling you thirty six is a perfectly generous gift or or copies of your book. Yeah. Or copying someone could get hurt. And I swear I'm not that God not like, I could give you my book. If we want more dramatic Gary in our lives. What do you have a website? Where should we send people for sending them to one place by digits are spending queue? So I have to say to places which is terrible deadspin G Q, Germany. Thank you so much for being here. Tensile of the week. It's been terrific talking to you. Yeah. Please anytime. Thank you for having me. All right talk to you later. Take care. Take care. Bye. J crew. You know, we talk a lot about drinking bourbon, scotch whisky all sorts of things on this show. But at the end of the day wine wine is is your basic that that's that's what we all need. We all love it. And from South Africa comes unorthodox, a unique take on kosher wines. It's perfect for your Seder. You're simply your Shabbat meal your dinner table any night of the week any month of the year. Unorthodox comes from his on V wind farm which dates back to the seventeenth century. The farm is nestled on the southeastern slopes of the parl mountains the vineyards enjoy a superb tour, which captures the delicacy and flavor of both red and white grapes alive. You could buy Soviet-bloc Shamim Bonk or a merlot cabernet sauvignon Bordeaux type blend. The winds are all metal shawl and kosher for Passover, and they're certified kosher by the orthodox union and the Cape Beth jets, you've got South African cautious and worldwide respected. We also give our yes, then orthodox so unorthodox Hampshire next for being delicious. You can get the wine at all good wine stores in the northeast mid Atlantic. Or florida. Can check your local listings, so before you head out unorthodox wines dot com and find out which of my local wine stores will have the wine and for a limited time period. You can go to bit Lee dot com slash unworthy wine for free shipping on all orders. That's bitterly dot com slash north of wine by the wind. Raise a glass, turn on your favorite podcast and have. Dell. To the mailbox Stephanie. What do we have this way smell is in response to our one hundred most Jewish foods episode? I wanted to share this memory of my dad who was born in Baghdad and moved here in his twenties in the nineteen early nineteen fifties by homesick, he developed a real ability to cook Iraqi food, my dad with pickle everything and his favourite was Mahala, wait your pickled beets. And because we also had family who grew up in Bombay, the extended Iraqi Jewish community had trading communities in the British empire. What we had those foods as well. And so we would always by the pickled mango, which was awesome. He would make the Iraqi Arosa with the data, and we and our kids his grandkids loved it more than the skin AVI, but his PF results. Thing that he was known for she's giving and he would make kitty as a Meatloaf, not little skewers little balls. But as though it was a combination of he'll and lamb, but but made it so terrific was a middle air that had ground. A sultanas the yellow raisins and almonds season with cardamon oh end of the lamb veal. We have a little bit of bulgar wheat. So that was an amazing Givi. And that was the thing that we all live for that's that's a very sweet voice mail. I love our listeners so much. But at the end of the day when I'm going to remember a week from now is that he has a dad from Baghdad and he has Baghdad Baghdadi I had a dad for Baghdad. I would just call him. Joe? I'd sleep Big Joe Baghdad Baghdadi. I would I would work that forever. Sadiki. If you've melt for us, we have eyes and ears for your mail. You can write to unorthodox tablet, MAG dot com or leave us a voicemail at nine one four five seven zero four eight six nine Stephanie and Leo have Ye any mazal tubs this week. I do so Stephanie did your high school have a senior like play like a drama the drama club perform he has called stages and they like wrote a play they wrote a play Mark what what your high school seniors got to direct one act? It was like a privilege that has a senior. If you've been really active in theatre, you got you got a slot in the one act festival. But usually it's like stuff like, you know, my fair lady or stuff like that. So I see that. And I raise you this week north Bergen high school in New Jersey as the final production of the high school drama club staged alien, the amazing movie with Sigourney Weaver as a drama on stage for their high school. Cool. If you go online and look at this thing, it is one of the most stunning late. High school like the created the alien like alien monster the whole stay ship. It just looks incredible kids actually explodes out of someone's belly. No, no spoilers. They had they had the face huggers. They had everything like, I can't tell you. How happy this makes me and how secure that the next generation may be. Okay. Mazal tov my Muslims. Have this week is for Jess Nachman, and Eric Wasser Strom? They got married this weekend there in the times check it out and Eric's mother Harriet is a fan of our show, and she came to our live show in New York when she was in town from Houston, and it's just so fun. They did a really fun dance. It was like a slowed. I dance that was a slow dance. And then it broke out into lady Gaga is bad. Romance to this crazy. I wasn't there. But I saw videos mazal tov to Harriet. The the proud mom, I I have a few. I have an omnibus Christophe wrap-up mazal tov, a mazal tov to Sarah goddess men's sister. Her Bela and her husband Louise who just got his green card true. Love will prevail Bela and Louis mazal tov to both of you. Also, our editors Sophia says that our friend Joey pair has a Kickstarter up for his comic book about his father mazal tov to Joey pair. That's P. R Kickstarter has lots of fun stuff on projects like comics graphic novels are check that one out a muzzle top to our listener. Nick Holden whose niece kicked him out of every Facebook group, I guess trying to save him from the social media tentacles. And he reapplied to our Facebook group. He couldn't handle being off social media if it meant being away from the J crew. So if you are listener and are not on the Facebook group know that there are some listeners who are twice on the Facebook group really behind. Our producer. Josh Yoho show across with a K his son miles with an m cross was admitted to the Bronx high school of science. You might have heard of it. And I'll just have to do is pay three hundred fifty thousand dollars to the lacrosse team at podcast advertising. I said I can get you seventeen slots on north and accident, mid roll and post roll. So mazal tov miles at a bottle top to our producer star. Freshman aiders mother Adena Friedman who read megi lot Esther she read the poem mcgilla at a maximum security women's prison last week doing the Lord's work muzzle tub. Unorthodox is brought to you by tablet magazine on the web at tablet, MAG dot com. You can ask for our newsletter, and you should by writing to unorthodox a tablet MAG dot com and putting newsletter in the subject line. We often come to you live if that sounds appealing to you. You know, if you live in a place that could use more of us. Book us spy writing to producer. Josh cross at J cross cross with a K at tablet, MAG dot com. You should wear and carry unorthodox to we have onesies t-shirts. We're gonna get nightcaps and union, suits and other kinds of strange retro. Steam punk where it's a bit dot L Y slash unorthodox shirt. You can follow us on Instagram at unorthodox podcast and on Twitter at unorthodox underscore pod. You can join our Facebook group, and you ought our show is produced by cross our associate producers are Sarah Redman ater, and no eleven our editors Sophia Snyder, evil artwork is by extra worker. Our social media internet Eleazar Abrahams. Our theme music is by Gholam online at goal rocks dot com. Our mailbox theme is by Steve Barton rabbinic supervision this week by rabbi Karen Brightman, who should bring us to her shoe on Martha's Vineyard, just it's pretty thick. We come to you from Argo studios, which is the third. Josh Cohen Shalom friends.

Josh Cohen Josh Stephanie Ben Cohen Neil diamond Josh David America Leo New York City Steve Rosen Stephanie Budnick Stephanie smile Michael Steinhardt Barbara streisand America Drew mcgarry Mark Oppenheimer Rebecca Sofer Cohen David Ross Moore
Whole Hearted: Ep. 215

Unorthodox

1:17:08 hr | 6 months ago

Whole Hearted: Ep. 215

"Appreciate appreciate like a short Hershey for she ate it. Appreciate it there you go. This is Unorthodox University leading Jewish podcast. I'm your host Mark Oppenheimer Anaheim our joined this week by another host tablets senior writer. Liel Liebowitz hello to you you lying. Doug Face Pony soldier. Oh isn't that the greatest I word ever cody soldier. This Joe Biden thing I did not. Did you call someone a pony soldier. A very lovely moment. Ask them very innocuous question. He turned around and said No. You didn't you lying dog faced pony soldier. Wow then she was like what he's like. It's woman old. John Wayne move was like no. It's not every single John we you literally. It was big in Delaware that instead slander. That's slur was big in Delaware. The nineteen fifty. It was a pre talkie. That's got to the president just for the Retro Quality. Just just to take us back in time Lille and I are alone in the studio today. Stephanie has jury duty so it's just only al to celebrate. Celebrate the upcoming hog known to the gentiles. Valentine's Day is revelatory. Yeah that's right Ed. We will be speaking with some people who know something about Love Seduce today. They are among others. We're going to have the cast members of the web series soon by you about dating in the modern Orthodox world how carp when our favorite guests from the apology episode came to our live in Cincinnati to tell us a very very special story. And then if you like hearing US whisper sweet nothings into your ear. Buds wait until Oh you hear the lovely singing voices in our interview with cantorial student. Jacob Sandler yes he gets US singing. We really do put you in the Mood for love. This is love is in the air in twenty twenty s as the corona virus. But Hey you win some you lose so the the updates on our lives. Stephanie is currently only doing civic duty during jury duty somewhere in the five boroughs Stephanie was in Scotch Plains New Jersey having a great event there a few days ago Maybe we'll we'll get the update next week. Leo You're in the motherland right. I was in beautiful Israel. Why for my grandmother's one year as a memorial service? Yeah Had a chance to sit and study some Tomlin with my Gerke Hassett cousins. I dearly love and again you know. We're often kind of like you know funny about these matters here but every now and then I really do get the urge to be sincere when I sit with people who you would think we have absolutely nothing uncommon. But then you realize we are truly literally and metaphorically speaking family and when we get together that love that connection is completely puttable we have spent very a little time talking about the fact that you're related to Garros So how did these are first cousins of yourself. I Costa who went. Who Went Garrard in your family? My Grandmother's sisters Shula Married Girl Haas. Okay this is a particular sect of Hasidim. What is there? What's the What their vibe? Like what what makes Gerhardt's put it like this cafe after the memorial service writing grandmother. Someone was talking about a person who's become about Shuba who's found religion later in life and became a gir- haas acid and one of my cousins who is Haas it said really no one becomes Bolshevik becomes a hostage and I asked why not and my cousin said well. Because it's it's perfectly fine to be like a really religious Jew and not go all the way to where we are. Why would you ever do the house? We have no choice right. Mind way you ever come here. It's so interesting I don't have any Cassini blackadder's any Haredi in my family I have modern orthodox cousins in Israel whose parents my mother's first cousin hasn't her husband actually were leaders of the conservative movement in Israel but then there's not much of a conservative movement in Israel so if you grow up kind of conservative conservative acts like observant conservative but if you SORTA got a pick or are you going secular going modern Orthodox and they're you know they're orthodox but I don't know of anyone who's like got the hat and the beard. It's a great a crying. Shame you have Hasidic material written all over your basically and this is the thing that I I kind of realized this week. 'cause we were hanging we were talking and at some point. The conversation vacation got kind of really elevated. And then I thought you know moved to dial like three clicks to the right and we're talking about Cherry Garcia Right in one thousand nine hundred. Seventy right eating shrimps and the bus and the way to Monterrey. That's kind of the VIBE. Yeah really the essence of not just observing the strict strict interpretation of the law but really trying to find this motionless spiritual connect mystical court to it would love to. I WanNa hang with your gear custom in cousins or Greg. I had a slightly different experience but in its way no less mystical by the way while you're talking about Jerry Garcia on the bus. Were you on the conference call when I when we were all doing like a pre show Oh crap and Rebecca. My thirteen year old was in the car and she was saying Dad. Can you explain the the grateful dead to me which is a really deep question because you know I could say I mean. I think we'd been listening to uncle. John's John's Bander Casey Jones. Or something you've come on. Come on the playlist in the car and I could say well it's a it's a group from about nineteen sixty seven to nineteen. Ninety give is playing the debt side. But I could give you the Brownie right and you'll eat it thirty five minutes you'll understand everything about this man. I mean I. It's really hard to say because it's so much more than a band to six never made sense to me before I try them on. Meet cliche thing to say. One is a grateful dead. The second is tennis and attended attended. I'm like wait until you understand. 'em This is a great game. I just have to move my eleven right. I'm so into this now. I add my own mystical experience in Wia missing in Pennsylvania and a bunch of people came like they'd set up fifty chairs. Forty five of the chairs were were filled with super curious. Interesting people of all ages a young rabbi from Lebanon Pennsylvania brought his twenties and thirties. Group is like young singles of which there were five or six and they were super into it and they listen to the show and they wanted copies the book and it was magical. The Jewish Cultural Committee organizes their author series was three people. None of whom was is Jewish. Okay one of them was Nancy Russo. WHO's married to to Paul something? Jewish and Nancy is is Italian Catholic by upbringing. The main woman the director of cultural life for the Jewish nation is Amanda Hornberger. Whose husband is like something German Lutheran? She herself grew up. Congregational est she's on the vestry of her united the Church of Christ Congregational Church. I've always said that the congregation great out and there was a local librarian named John who grew up in Baltimore where he did sixteen years of Catholic school and then went off to college college. I mean literally none of these people even guys. Every time we meet a gentle on our show it turns out there a quarter Jewish. These people like zero Jew in them and yet they are keeping the Jewish heart beating y missing Pennsylvania. They were interested they were curious they're booking good authors. They're running great programs. The people they bring in Inter asking smart questions Jews by choice we had a convert. who showed up a Sherry came and said thank you for your your help on my journey? The podcast has been meaningful to me. gentile L. spouses of Jews. Why a missing? Pennsylvania was among the greatest afternoons of my life is how it ought to be how it ought to be. Whatever New York like fucking fucking A.? Y. A. Missing Pennsylvania it there. Are Jews starve reading. The News starts reading this and I want to see even today do an event at the Barnes and Noble in Union Square. And you'll get fifty fifty three people and I go to why missing and get forty and in town. That's probably like twelve thousand people get numbers you get. People are truly engaged truly engaged and so grateful full end their listeners and the ones who aren't listeners could become listeners I it was it was magical. Speaking of Magic Amazon is somehow making the Nazis disappear in news to the Jews. This this week we learned from the New York Times about that Amazon is and I quote quietly canceling its Nazis over the past eighteen months. The retailer has removed books by David. Duke a former the leader of the Ku Klux Klan as well as several titles by George Lincoln Rockwell founder of the American Nazi Party Amazon also prohibited volumes like the ruling elite the Zionist seizure of world power and and history of central banking and the enslavement of mankind from its virtual shelves. What are we think of Amazon? Taking strong hand Nazi literature out of its store. You're I'm not down with it. I'm not either tell you. Because here's the thing. Once you at a major conglomerates start making judgment calls about what is and is is not permissible for its captive audience to read. I think you're sorta screwed actually kind of a free speech absolutist in this way like yes I want everyone three David Duke Doc if only because once you do unless you're total frigging maniacal moron. You'd understand that this is absolute drivel. Actually want like free copies and like every this show be like. Hey guys here you go and try to get your way through mine com- If you can't get twelve pages into it. It's the most boring stuff you'll ever find. The beginning is funny. The middle sags the characterization gets gets a little thin toward the ad still never figured out how it ended. I never read it. No but really like do I really want Amazon making this call them. Why not the next up being like well you know This type of ideology is also quite offensive to us in history is in the type of thing we want people to read. You can imagine agenda that you can imagine where it goes very quickly to Jews in the Middle East or Zionist saying. We don't WanNa read you know the Hamas Charter and Palestinian activists saying we don't want to read. This spoke about the founding of Israel. I mean it's all of a sudden you've a lot of people who authentically believe that they are keeping genocidal literature out of the hands of other people saying what people can and cannot read and you add in the fact that Amazon really does have a kind of monopoly power. What we're reading? Yeah and find the these days of elsewhere. I'm not down with this this at all and and it's not because again your point that when you spend time with Nazi thinking it you realize what drivel it is having interviewed White Supremacist Neo Nazis. They're pretty boring uninteresting. Not just that. The thing I love about talking to White Supremacists the Nazis which I've also done on occasion is their concept of the the level of Jewish Command Organization. Have you ever been uninsured committee meeting. That's even decide what to do for the kit. It is for like two like no. We're totally incompetent. Just like the rest of the world. They'll take their volumes atomic off the shelves and like open tractatum like like Moron and say like you see this line here which has juicer supposed to dominate. That's what Jews are taught in school. Think we which Jews are these who are learning how many members school a the one percent of one percent attentive American Jews. Do spend days arguing. Just say one sentence in the red. Oh they think we're very impressive and you know where you find some of those Jews. Well one fewer of them at the Harvard Harvard Club my favorite story fewer of them. You're who the New York Post reports that Vanessa. The Levin aged twenty eight has been expelled from the Harvard Club now. Of course as a Yale man this story is just. You're loving this story. She attended a call. Your Friend Jones e. from skull and bones feel like cheerio boys logos Kosovan Vanessa. Levin aged twenty attended event last year at the Harvard Club called the Hundred Years War in Palestine L. A. Stein it was electrified Rashid Khalidi. She claims that she sat peacefully. And then during the Q.. And A. Session asked how Mideast peace could be achieved. Palestinians are taught quote to support terrorism against using Susan Israelis. According to the near post the audience erupted in mob like fury at her queering. According to the lawsuit she has filed. Why did she file a lawsuit? Well according to her version of Events Harvard Finance Finance Professor Forest Mussa saw called her a whore in Arabic and grabbed her by the arm bruising. It as he tried to take the microphone. According to court papers she was then followed out by audience members shouting to get her. She filmed the incident and posted it on facebook. It seems to be that what upset the Harvard Club then was that she refused to take down the facebook video thus violating the sanctity city of their Harvard nece and the board of trustees demanded she take it down when she refused. They expelled her and she is now suing the Harvard Club. Now The New York Post is is not say if Vanessa Levine went Harvard and I know that the L. Club who's extremely good water pressure showers once enjoyed as a young recent graduate New York. I've never felt water. Pressure like the water pressure in the showers by the squash court pressure. You felt that the the the water pressure Yell Club but based based on what I know about all of these clubs. They're not bursting at the seams with with members. They are like elite clubs everywhere. They've had to loosen the membership requirements. A little bit to get member. Pursuade Yell at the Oakland for example there now much less rigorous about when you have to wear a jacket to eat in the grill room and I believe they even combined with like Dartmouth Club in l.. Look not the don was called Chevrolet so these clubs were inviting other clubs with other other pedigrees. Shall we say to merge with them and use their spaces and so you now might encounter people at the club who do not themselves have yellow. Diplomas I I don't know if that's what's happened at Harvard smelling salts outrage so my question is did Vanessa with one s Levin even attend and Harvard and Radcliffe colleges or was she an interloper whose money they were taking but whom they were happy to be rid of not interested in the opinions communists. I have researched the actual rules for Harvard Club members show but rather get the angry mail from Harvard. Alumnus about this story is like hits a perfect sweet spot for me. It's like everything that I find stupid about America a about a particular subsection of life versatile really why are are you going to events with titles like the hundred year war. I'm like there's so much shit on Netflix Israeli grade book. I know they're nice people out there. Don't don't go to an advantage advantage to ask like an outrageous question number one number two really like the Harvard Club. I gotTa tell you though it. That's what the Harvard and Yale Clubs. Is there right near Grand Central Station and again the Yale Club. The water pressure showers Leo. It would flay the skin off your back. It would change everything would change. You've ruined every other shower. Ever only going to be a part of his Kish disclosed Vanessa. Levin should have been on the upper west side twenty years ago living the beautiful pre-nine Eleven sprightly love infused existence assistance of Ed Norton Ben Stiller Gentleman in the movie keeping the faith. Now you'll remember a few weeks ago you and Steffi night we agreed we were going to have a film called. We're going to watch this movie. which is one one of the great Jewish movies of all time It's the story of two friends. Rabbi and a priest Ben Stiller Edward Norton who reconnect with an old friend from childhood with. WHO's growing up into this? Great beauty played by Jan Elf men and love triangular hijinks ensue revisiting. This movie Lille Bentzion Shlomo Yoshua o'malley Liebowitz Liebowitz. What did you think it broke my heart? I was so profoundly sad. I arrived at the city shortly before the events depicted in in this year. Movie take place and I. I really couldn't help thinking how it captures a reality. That is completely alien to the way we live today. People call each other on the phone then they have meetings in person if something goes wrong and you want to talk about it in life. You don't tweet about it. You actually go to a friend's apartment and and you sit there and you have all these lovely late night. Confessions no-one intended the upper west side is robust. There are no stores that are shuttered because the Internet There's no kind of you know existential. Fear and dread that seeped into the city after nine eleven it is just a testament to to hope to humanity to connection to the possibility of faith to transform lives. It seems like a document from another century and in a sense it really is at the fact that one of the running gags is how they mocked Elf men because he carries a little cellphone around like that was the moment when cell phones. Were first becoming a thing and I remember getting my first one thinking you know and I I think I told myself it was a financial decision it was cheaper than having a landline. And I I was doing some traveling for my graduate school work and it was GonNa let me keep in touched on the road and even remember the last phone number. I ever learned because once you get cellphone records you know what's the point of it was John Pitt. partner at Williams and Connolly former roommate of mine. I don't know his phone number now. I guess I guess some years later I learned my wife's phone number and then my daughters and that's it and it really was a time where yes. The whole premise of the movie is they all live near each other on the upper west side and therefore can get together to fight out all of these Dramas that their lives are playing out and they have to do it. They have to cry at each other's shoulder and they have to. When when Edward Norton gets upset by the turn things are taking he goes to a bar even the fact that like? He's drunk in the bar crying to the bartender. Looks like such an anachronism such an actress. The person who made this movie. This really is one of the greatest films of the last thirty forty years. The person made this movie. I think thought he was making religious movie inasmuch as it was about these. You know this relationship between the Rabbi and the priest I think what actually we ended up taking from it vis-a-vis vis-a-vis religion twenty years. Later is the fact that for spirit to survive at all. You need precisely that you need to be able to sit at the bar and talk to. The bartender need to sit on the couch with your friend and cry for hours. You need all these things that life post Internet simply makes if not impossible the really really unlikely and really like I felt post human watching this meeting realizing how much was lost in the last years made me deeply depressed and I don't think I'm just being kind out of like you know. Middle aged man hotdogs cost a quarter. It really felt like a teaching. It's terrific movie and it was. It was a terrific movie Middle aged man right. I completely agree with you and but when I talked to my college students or when I talked to my kids about it they they don't disagree they they watch a movie like this and they know exactly exactly what I'm talking about and which is why in fact. I'm meeting increasing numbers of undergraduates. Who I work with? Who are off social media? I mean they have their phones but they're trying to reclaim claim something of that analog existence and finally say it takes religion seriously. It's not reverend but it's serious and I think that's really cool. I would love to get Stuart Blumberg. Who wrote this movie on the show? He's made a few movies since If Interest Stuart Blumberg Connection Lake Drop us a line. And meanwhile J. Crew. Your assignment is still bill. If you haven't yet go keeping the faith and then send us a note about it. There's been a lot of facebook chatter about it. We want your mail. UNORTHODOX A tablet MAG DOT COM or call. Nine one four five seven zero four eight six nine nine a Uh Soon Bhai you is a scripted. Web Series by and about Orthodox Jewish millennials. Trying to find love or at least lost in the big city it has been described as a Jewish version of friends. which is exactly how you would sell it to my daughter? Rebecca who's watched although honestly twice is so so much better but I love French. Keep saying I love friends so I to me. That's a high compliment anyway. Take both. They'll take whatever we give. And this season the second season they move into some super contested territory as they introduced Queer Orthodox characters. We are thrilled to welcome From soon by Danny Hoffman Gottfried. Thank you for coming on. Orthodoxy are having having are gentiles of Jewish. So let's start with this. First episode of the new season tells the story the one we just released his the second episode of the second season. We've I've always surrounded. Our episodes around six characters are Orthodox and live in New York City. And this time For this episode we meet one of our main characters siblings. Who Do we find out a little bit through the episode spoiler spoiler alert? Pause the podcast episode of You have could you please play these spoiler alert music there. Thank you very much Josh. we find out a little bit through the episode that this Characters Actors Sibling is gay and we meet him as well as a friend of his. WHO's also a gay woman and we learned a little bit about them their experience and these two organizations that we partnered with to make this episode Q.? and Shell who are very involved in the Jewish gay communities communities. It's something we've been thinking about for a really long time and we really wanted to do it in an authentic way. We recognize that it wasn't our experience and much of this show so far has been from our experience in our lives so it was really important to us to partner with these organizations in order to you know create a story that makes sense for them and is important for them to get across really just amplifying. Their voices is our goal so so I assume that once you started doing the show and getting really big. I know a lot of people who are really mega fans of the show them big craft show myself. I assume that the pressures of representations right began being thing. I assume a lot of people came to you and said hey man you know. It's really nice that you did this. Dating scene lighthearted CETERA. But it's time to talk about some of the more contentious issues let's talk about. LGBTQ modern Orthodox people did it. Did it happen this way. We actually got it in from all directions. Directions are characters very much in the way that lay and I and the other producers and actors grew up which is modern Orthodox and we were it was pointed out to us that that is a very very narrow representation of Jews in general that we were kind of only showing our own experiences and people are like well you can show him where she experiences. Yeah but that's but that's what artists stew off it as they work from their own experiences. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't know that much. Except that as a Jew journalist I've learned a lot about it but growing up I knew nothing about modern orthodoxy. Like what if you gave me a show that was just modern orthodoxy that would be a world unto itself that I would never know so why I don't know did. Did you kind of feel like wait. A second we're doing a thing that actually is represented almost nowhere else in American culture. That was really what made me create. The show is because I didn't see this representation anywhere else and it was my experience and I thought it was so interesting and so fascinating fascinating for other people to kind of get a look into this subculture and I think the purpose was to show this kind of Niche Group of people and they're not really shown anywhere anywhere else it was. It was very much inspired by the Israeli shows through Jim which was about one orthodox Jews dating in Israel and like for me seeing that I felt like wow I had never seen this world world portrayed before and we wanted to bring that to New York and the states and explore that world. I think that what people connected to. Where there's there's not this content about these other parts of Judaism these other representational groups of Judaism and they saw us and they said we'll that's close to who I am but if not exactly why don't you include some more people and I think from artistic expression this is who the stories are about our experience but they don't have people doing that for their experience and they'd like us to do that for them as aw they should do that kind of built in challenge there? I think because you know if you look at so much of the progression of American sitcoms in the last twenty thirty years a a lot of it has its own kind of grammar and it's fast in many cases. It's Glib it is often built around these minute misunderstandings and other kind of just ephemera and here you're describing the lives of a community that by definition to be too cute about it answers to a higher calling. It has a different set of ideas ears that inspire and move it so I'm interested in how that comes into play. When you're writing the shows that I can feel it kind of in the background but I wonder when you writing getting these episodes if you think about rather than just okay well you know the characters are GonNa do x and Y and Z and the interactions and relationships are going to work in this way and it's going to be really really funny? Oh remembering all the while that will one of them's a rabbi. And they all have something that terrorism together that is more than just the friends paradigm paradigms of like. Oh were young attractive and happen to live in the same building. Yeah I think that's exactly it just because coming from a place of where we are because we are similar to those characters in that way. Hey it kind of just seeps into the work naturally because a lot of it is from our experiences and from the world around us that we see but honestly like we didn't go into it thinking about that so much we just wanted to tell stories about modern orthodox Jews and just really humanize them in a way where anybody watching can relate to what they're going through and can relate to the the emotions and the desires and the loneliness and the isolation in certain ways and the fact that they're orthodox Jews in the fact that they do you know sort of have this higher calling as you you said just makes it more interesting but that was never like the goal to kind of explain orthodoxy or anything that was just like who cares but but I I still wonder I mean when you watch curricular secular American television. Is there a part of you. That looks at ince's my God man. This cultures completely decimated I as is a fan of the secular American television and prolific watcher. That's sort of what modern orthodoxy is. Orthodox people who love the right and to be honest the only reason I think because we watch. TV that's the only reason are able to make our version of that. I don't find myself thinking like Oh there needs to be more Jewish value in these episodes. A lot of the drama comes from things that might not necessarily come up in Orthodox Jewish dating. And that's what's right for that show. That's not what would be right for our show. I do come at it with the thought of incorporating Jewish values but not like overtly and not in your face but just naturally through who these characters are and that I think to me is in general how I see myself as a writer and a filmmaker and Unorthodox person who is writing TV and film and everything just sort of naturally having those values seep into into my work yes is for entertainment and entertainment sake but I also see a higher calling to all of that and really for God's sake and for the sake of bringing more light into the world through through entertainment and through fun. I am astonished at how few shows have any meaningful depiction of any religiosity Jewish Christian Muslim. Like you can watch all all of NBC ABC and CBS and find almost nobody who ever says like. Oh I'll meet you after church. It doesn't even exist in the country that by some counts. It's like forty forty percent evangelical Christian. It's not just a Jewish thing. It's that Hollywood really is determinedly. It is run by secularist and journalism is well media really is run by secularists. Do fuel resistance from the media. Community is filmmaker. You're like the only filmmaker you know except the people you work on the show with whoever goes to religious of any kind I bet well I would challenge that actually. Yeah I think there are can't come on my pocket too late. There are so many incredible filmmakers. Who are doing just that? And maybe they're not like fully completely mainstream yet they're out there and so many of my mentors and idols and people that I look up to our religious filmmakers who are creating powerful work and and people want to see that and people want to see that more. And that's something that I want to change and I want to bring more of not just with this work but with other work also because like you said there are so how many people whose experiences are not being represented and who are kind of just like they don't exist in the world of of film and TV. And I think especially now with the the industry kind of being more open to diverse voices. I think it's a good time to kind of slip in and change that right. Which is why my my favorite scene in this episode? We've been talking about is trying arranged the governing on a boat fantastic but let me ask you this on on a very personal note. You've started to show some years ago right right. How many years four or five years ago you were all in different places in your lives back? Then we've had you on the show earlier and some things might have happened to. That's a Maybe changed your perspective lives since our lives have changed definitely since we started. I was already married when we started doing the show. But I am now a father which is a definitely definitely a big massive change in my life and let you talk to your changes? So many things happened. I think what you're referring to is probably that I did get married. A couple of months ago muzzles it just wonderful and a beautiful part of my life. was there a specific question about the question. The Super Bowl first of all I mean there's a brand here right. The show is called soon by the whole thing is around this oh searching for love first of all and second of all I also seem that artists you are now in different places in to tell the stories and you maybe have different emotional. Valances that that you want to bring to your work. Do you think about that. Because you're not the young upstarts that you were four years go. You know established celebrities indeed families and Van Basis. We are very selectively celebrities places. New York happens to the go-to Kish remote or your mob like some places town where you have to bring security. We're like Kish rush celebrities. That's the only place where we're not shape. Things might be. It might be different for the both of us. I can say now that I'm not I have a daughter and you know I'm starting to think about the world that she's GonNa be growing up in and the religious circles that she's going to be growing up in and because of that and also because of these voices who have spoken to us about you know making sure that people are represented in the show. Now see our show as a an opportunity to kind of try to represent those less represented voices are we talking about the LGBTQ representation in our current our most recent episode. And it's something that is important to us because it's important to the Lgbtq community but it's also because there is this the people who were not necessarily accepted In many circles of Orthodoxy and that has ramifications on their personal lives lives. And it's it's very very difficult. We have the show. And it's an opportunity to kind of say like here we are as Orthodox Jews and that is not what Orthodox Judaism is to everybody. Buddy who is Orthodox and Jewish Orthodox Judaism does not necessarily mean that we're not going to accept or include people who don't live their lives like the rest of the Orthodox community necessarily and I think that's an important thing that we can do through our show for the community and also for the future perhaps of young earth that actually although we were talking a little bit earlier earlier about you hear it from the left and the right so to speak so I mean you're also getting people from communities to the right of yours religiously speaking issues communities more Haredi communities more conservative modern Orthodox communities who probably are saying like. What are you doing with this show where people kiss before marriage? And what did we do. Quick Eric Doctors Right was there never. I thought there was in my mind. Maybe I'm conflicted with streaky. Because I've sometimes been characters you have but characters have been strictly Schumer Schumer which is not the case for every modern Orthodox. So was that also a decision that was made as a to represent a certain kind of religiosity. Johnson was and people always ask the question like will they. Well when will they will. They hold him exactly married. Let me ask you this so it. It seems to me that the last four years have been a very difficult time and as much as the political schisms that have affected all of us also kind of at least drove rove this community to feel much more opposition as the kind of bastion of a conservative values if not outright trump supporting these trump curious curious versus the more secure or more liberal rest of the American Jewish community that has been moving further and further to the left. Do Do you first of all. Do you feel any of this in your lives in. Does that inform how you think about a show like yours. Well I can. I can definitely say that. There's people within my community that I you can count on regular basis who are very strongly in both camps who are very strongly pro trump and very conservative and also very strongly anti-trump very liberal. Those are all part of the Orthodox community that I'm a part of as far as our show is concerned. I think we've been very intentional about not being political. I mean it does feel like a very divisive time though. I'm like I feel it in my life. I have family only members who are more of the the right wing community and friends who are more liberal and I'm sort of interacting with all of them in does feel like I can i. I can feel the tension and I can feel a lot of opposition just in the world in our world in general And it's kind of disheartening at times but with the show you know I think where religious we keep coming back to. What do we feel is important and not sort of seeing ourselves as politically anywhere but just more from like an artistic place like what is important important for us to explore about this community? What voices are important to be something that I think has been important for? Our show is that this is an opportunity especially especially for introducing Orthodoxy Jewelry to people who might not be familiar with it or at least our form of Orthodox Jew. It's an opportunity to bring people together. Who might not necessarily have thought you know that they have something in common We've gotten comments from people about how you know. They didn't know anything about US before but now they see how much more similar they are to themselves than they thought and That's an opportunity. You bring people together and we certainly don't want to do anything that's going to drive people apart speaking of bringing people together. This is our Valentine's Day episode big till Munich holiday celebrated tate's throughout the world. Give us give us some wisdom from the soon by U Universe about finding and keeping love in the twenty first century. Love Yourself I. I think that's where it starts. Yeah I'm all about like self love and going on dates with yourself and if you're if you do it all the time she was married she didn't say it was to another person who picks up the TAB on a rabbi. Rabbi well I kind of jumping jumping off of of what you started but I think that finding what you are excited about finding what you're passionate about. What makes you happy is going to be very valuable and finding someone who you were going to be able to be? He that person with will work said at about soon. Bye Thank you so much for joining US available on a web browser near you YouTube. Dot Com Danny Hoffman. Got Thank you thank you I. Hey J. crew you've heard me talk about. How much daughter loves Jewish summer camp? That is the truth. Scout's honor like like scouting camps. Honor now now. Is the time for you to start planning a Jewish summer camp for your kids this summer. The foundation for Jewish camp has mountains of research that quantify what we already know which is the Jewish camps transformed lives six kids who go formed strong Jewish identities and develop lifelong friendships and they achieve greater independence and confidence. You can tell you that me because I've seen what such a camp does for my child. Now if you're thinking I don't know if my kid is the Jewish camp type IV good news. Every kind of kid is Jewish summer camp kid type the foundation website. Lets you explore over three hundred camps day camps nightcaps programs that range from two weeks to eight weeks all walks of Jewish life all observance levels. You're sure to find a camp that matches. Does Your Kids Interests Sports Cooking Surfing horseback riding social justice stem adventure. Whatever it is? 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What is the trial set? It's a five Blade Razor waited handle foaming Shave Gel with aloe and a travel cover. Join the millions of guys and some non guys who are already saving money by Harry's dot com slash unorthodox claim your offer and be smooth J. crew. We just can't get enough of you. We just can't quit. You gave twenty eighth. Stephanie will be doing unpacking the book series at the Jewish Museum. That's with Goldie Goldblum Abby. Cova sign at Seven PM Fiber Twenty Six. Stephanie and I will be in Naples Florida at the greater Naples Jewish folk festival March six. Stephanie will be the Book Center in Amherst Massachusetts in March twelfth. She and Leo will be in Boca Raton. Torah congregation March seventeenth seventy will be out at the Homeland Long Island Old Westbury Hebrew congregation. And you know what we have more stuff plans. HUDA TABLET MAG DOT dot com slash unorthodox. Live we especially want to tell you that we finally have made it happen book out. Kansas City show stay tuned for more details about how we're coming to Kansas City. IN IN JUNE GO TO TABLET MAG dot com slash unorthodox live to learn about all the opportunities to reach out and touch us in person. Aw MHM J. Crew. If you heard our apology episode for the Jewish Year Fifty seven seventy nine you will surely remember how carp he told a story about repairing his relationship with his brother he was one of our favorite guests and he touch with us and said that he had some news that he wanted to update us on so we were excited to have him at our Cincinnati live show where he told us this story our super fans and many longtime listeners. People just been with us for even just a year if you've been through with uh-huh Kapoor In the fall. You've heard that what we do for you. I'm comport is our annual apology episode. And that's because the poor is not just a time for a Tony with God but also for apologizing to other human beings two years ago on the apology episode. We invited a gentleman who is a writer and storyteller lives down in Texas to tell a story three of atoning with people who felt he had wronged It was wonderful story. Got A lot of tremendous feedback and then we didn't hear from him for a while but we were proud of that episode and then we heard from him a couple of months ago and it turns out that the story only got more interesting so to talk about that. Please welcome how carp so how welcome welcome so for the second time thank you. It's an honor to be here. So why don't you start by telling us a little bit about Out The story that you told us give bring people up to speed. If they didn't hear that story. My original story was about in Nineteen Ninety I was in Dallas and living with my brother and I was also secretly. He did not know this a full blown alcoholic and drug addict and he had invited me to become come his roommate. Because we're going to be too hip and cool Jewish guys living together except that I was not hipping cool. I was addicted and I took advantage of that situation every chance I got I never once paid him rent and lost every job. I had within weeks and it just got really bad really fast but at one point I had manipulated situation to actually have him arrested and sent to jail instead of me and he went went to jail and he did not do anything wrong. I actually obviously did the wrong thing. My family then obviously excommunicated me. My addiction got worse Eh. I committed a variety of criminal acts and got sober and always wondered. How do you make amends for that in the twelve step program that I was then I was told that if you ask God to show you away they'll show you away like a door will open and my brother after I was sober awhile? My family realized I was a serious about being sober. He needed to have surgery and my family. All else was out of town and he asked me if I would come stay with him and take him to the hospital hospital for surgery and pick them up and then take care of him so I got to basically for one week. Be The roommate that I never was and I got to fix it. You told that story at beautifully greater length on our show and people should go back and listen to that that episode from two thousand eighteen. And then you heard from somebody. I did ED so there was a girlfriend that I had dated back in Nineteen ninety-three. She was a a wonderful girl. We had a great connection except I was PRETENDING TO BE SOBER I would actually go to twelve step meetings and like stay sober couple of weeks a couple of months but I was lying about really being sober and in order to take care of herself she broke up with me and I was so angry about that. Because you're a drug addict you're fucking angry all the time everybody's fault except yours and I stole her identity and got several credit cards and her name and Rondos up. Of course. I had a plan like I'll pay them and nobody will know but that didn't really work out very well. I got a phone call from her mother and her and they had found out at the time she was actually teaching English in Costa Rica. And I thought you'll never find out. She's in Costa Rica. This is my plan by the time she gets back. I'll win the lottery. And payback these cards. I I really had like some insane plan like that so I I remember after she found out this is August third nineteen ninety-four. She had called me and said why. Would you do this to me and I remember remember when we hung up. I remember thinking like how could I do this to somebody that I really loved is deeply as I loved her. Her name's Irene. I just remember thinking. How did I get get here? You know and that was probably going to go to prison. That was the night that I actually got down and prayed to God for the first time for real real I really said God. If you're there I need help and then exteriors the first day of my sobriety. The you know what's coming so the story there was a piece in there about the felonies. When you get sober you know the first thing you wanna WanNa do is like I want to call her? I WANNA call her. You know and your people that help you in sobriety. Tell you your way to make amends to her is. You're never going to bother her again. You know like she knows how sorry you're asking people you apologize to. And there's people who there are people that your way to apologize to them is to never bother them ever again so I got a facebook message trimmer. She had heard the story on the podcast and she said I heard the story brought back. Wrexham Memories. I was glad to hear that you are doing well and healthy. I'm divorced. I'm living in Fayetteville Arkansas. And I hope you're doing well. I wrote her back and said thanks for getting in touch and as I was typing that I realized one of the things they tell you. When you're like I want to talk to? I WanNa talk to her. And they're like you're never gonNA talk to her is if we're supposed to talk to her one day. If you're supposed to make amends God will open that door. Can we bring her up now. Where's Irene Irene? We come on up and Josh leaving. Get you a chair. Yeah come sit on the outside thank you Irene for joining us away from Arkansas. Okay okay so high from your end is the son. You're a fan of unorthodox I gather or you. You know what I have I I cannot tell a lie I am I I am now a fan of Orthodox at the time I had this how Jala had always been the level of my life in truly heartbroken by everything that happened in when I was in Weird spot every now and then I would just google his name or facebook like look him up on facebook stock but lake. You know every five years or so. It's funny because I actually stopped my ex's on facebook. I full on just google but I just google them shame here. I told the story about link when my marriage. Let's really really bad. There was one year I actually drove by his family's house for Thanksgiving and just was like longing for like we used to go over to his family's house for Sunday dinner and it was just. It was one of the sweet memories that I had eight and my marriage is falling apart and I just I mean I remember like going to therapy. I'm like what's wrong with me like arriving by my ex-boyfriends House you know and he like did this horrible thing to me. And whatever so last September ish I had one of those facebook Kamenz and he just posted a link to the podcast. It's like Interesting I'll click on the link and you know and then I listened to the story day and I was kind of blown away by how gentle and how human his story was and and obviously there was a reference to what he had done to me and so yeah I did I with with with no intention other than to reach out and say I'm I listen to your story. I'm glad you're healthy. I hope you're happy. That was a guessing. You didn't tell your best girlfriends that you get this. I don't know like the guy who stole your identity. The they ain't actually it's it's amazing. How much grace your friends have win when they hear her like the whole story but we definitely well? That's it's kind of fast forward. Let's let let's let which one of you wants to take it from there. You want you tell us what happened then so they say if you're supposed to do this God will open the door so I remember rethinking that very moment this is it. This is the chance to make amends to Irene the money that I paid the bank back when I got sober ended up not going to prison prison which is a whole other story but I had never made amends for stealing her identity in for harming her violating her trust stealing her peace of mind so I messaged her back and said you know if you're ever in Dallas let me know we can meet for coffee and I can give you the apology that you're long overdue to have Chiro wrote back and said I would welcome that. That would be a gift that I never thought I would get in this lifetime just because you know when you have the opportunity to get closure on something that has haunted. Did you for so long it was. I was that it was like I was it was seeking closure right so you traveled to Dallas. Well so I actually used to live. I mean I lived in and out of dollars Alex for over twenty years and had relocated to Arkansas in twenty fifteen and travel back and forth to Dallas on a regular. It's my kids have friends there and my company has an office there and so my clients are there so anyway there was a trip that was gonna happen and then it didn't happen anyway. We wound up meeting for Coffee Offie in the end of November last year a year ago and I had to get to a couple of conference calls before we met in. Somebody's somebody's sitting at this place he had picked by the way it was quite ironic. He picked place called. I mean if those of you there's a place called Cafe Brazil it's right off the highway and we used to go there and so when he suggested like a place to meet and he suggested that I was like. Are you fucking kidding me. I'm sorry the only reason I suggested she said I'd conference calls to do. And they have Wifi. Could there be any more irony in this reconnect then freaking cafe Brazil and like okay. Whatever no problem I will meet either right? So I'm on a call. He walks in. He just Kinda saunters and I'm I'm speechless. Because I had a lot going on in my life one of my kids was at the end of a rough patch and I was dealing with that in dealing with work and ping a single parent and all of these things in walks. This person that I'm telling you lake the memory of standing in the street in front of his parents house him putting my hand on his heart and telling me about the the still small voice you know like this man walks in and like everything disappears right and I'm on a conference call for work and I'm like okay. Case keep your head you know and we just started talking and we just got caught up in the end we like. We walked out and I said some kind of hooker. Can I give go ahead. No like nothing right and he gave me this hug. That was lake was everything. I don't know how to explain. It was I melted edited and I got in my car and I started to cry by that time. He had pulled out of the parking lot as sent him a message. I said thanks for seeing me It means everything and and then when I left Alice that Sunday night I just I son cinema thinks thanks again message from the day we met for coffee. I don't think there's been a single day where we haven't talked facetime so my birthday is December. Sixth Right so twelve plus sixes high eighteen and He said to me in this text he said you. You said you had an upcoming birthday and I always remembered your birthday because twelve to eighteen eighteen is high. I can't tell you. The number time is between last year in today that this man has just melted my heart and brought me to tears and yesterday he asked me to marry him. So Mazal Tov in Kim said yes so I got this email from Hal a couple of months ago. He don't think I don't know if you knew you guys were going to get married that but you were just in writing to say. Thought you'd like to know that some good came out of I mean lots of good came out because people are so moved by your story. Yeah I think. What's amazing is the spiritual aspect to the story? Tori was that I am my spiritual journey with God is that I was honored to tell this apology. Story on this podcast ASP which I love and then you know I thought Oh. This is a great opportunity. This is so great to find out that Oh it leads. It's GONNA lead to another apology. She and we assume with that was all I thought was going to happen. You know And then And then and I walked through that door because I'm willing to make amends and then that led to finding love forever which is Irene. If there's a definition of its Irene and so so you're welcome is says so thank you so listen thank you guys. No no no no you. This means we have to throw the the invitation so to your small intimate gathering whatever it is anyways to say one more thing lease forgiveness is a gift. Don't write in. It's a choice and I think that we both in the years in between not seeing each other done so much work on ourselves that we're in a place where that can happen in not only that but my mother who I was petrified defied like of all people to tell I was petrified. Tell my mother and they now have the sweetest relationship. It's this has been like the gift that keeps on giving and I honestly have to pinch myself about how much good there is the my life. Mazal Tov Jalan Irene Go to the mailbox. Leon I have a question for you. Whatever happened to the days when all of our listeners were mad at you I I miss the days when I was the good guy? It's a refreshing change and all of the sign of the times when I am the kind of unifying figure these days. I'm the one getting it in. Maniac is beloved loved by all your beloved by all at I five from new haven source. Everyone's shitless a few weeks back. We ran that interview with anti-zionist editor and writer Caroline car-sharing. We got a lot of anger email from that and we were gonNA play some of it but then I got even angrier email for my interview last week which I thought was a little bit of a sweet nothingburger. I thought it was a genial. Sit Down with moderate Evangelical Mark Galli Former editor of Christianity. Today and it turns out. No everyone's mad at me for that to to also as it happened. I got some facts wrong about reform and conservative conversions. I'm just getting everything wrong. I'm apparently the pox on the world of Jewish. podcasting thing will be fortunate to have such wonderful listeners. Right in and educate that's right so what what. What were we educate it on this week? Okay my friend. Rabbi Michael Farber men from greater new haven from MM temple manual road dear mark you got it wrong. The state of Israel accepts non Orthodox converts under the Law of Return. It allows them to make Aliyah the get Israel. They're registered as Jewish citizens and affords awesome all the civic rights. The problem with the Israeli system is while the state of Israel recognizes. The status of these converts marriages for Jews are under the auspices of the Chief Rabbinate which of course naughtily does not recognize their conversions but also no longer recognizes certain Orthodox conversions performed outside the state of Israel by certain rabbis. Yours truly rabbi Michael Farman Temple Emmanuel. Yeah Well Okay Rabbi Michael. Thank you for correcting me. That is true. You don't need an Orthodox conversion to make Alibaba but when you move there you might have trouble getting rabbi to do your wedding. I got that wrong and many members of the rabbits reached out to correct me. Rabbi Michael Thank you for the gentle correction many of the corrections were not so gentle for example. Dear Mark Mark Stephanie and Lee l I want to add to the chorus of listeners who were deeply disappointed by March interview with Mark Kelly. I'm glad on Orthodox effort to bring in disparate voices I think episode sued with Jay Michaelson was a fantastic example of this kind of thing. My issue with Mark Galli was not his opinions as such. I was shocked. That Mark Oppenheimer did not seem put it off. By Mark Galli bemoaning the lack of seriousness and respect in media portrayals of evangelicals only minutes later to declare. Okay I get it. They're gay people in the world. What could be less serious or respectful from Galle? Worst of all was Mark Oppenheimer giving Mark Alley the space to equate same sex marriage with Nazism with no pushback. All the the Best Ryan Minster now Ryan is referring to Galle discussing the Evangelical Christian Baker who refused to bake a cake famously for a a gay couple wedding cake and Galli said something to the effect of look. We wouldn't ask Jews too big for Nazis and this analogy was picked up on by what a couple couple dozen listeners and he was in the facebook group it was male that we got and a lot of people seem very angry. That I didn't quote push back and I want to say a couple things thinks about this if I may the first is that when I interview people I usually go in with a fund of sympathy of giving them the benefit of the doubt Now sometimes I want to mix it up and engage with them. The Caroline car share interview for example. Was One where I thought the most interesting stuff was going to come. If I pushed back and really argued with our right but that it was partly because we're both Jews and we share some of the same conceptions like our critique of Israel rate with Mark Galli who's an evangelical Christian who's often voted for conservative politicians. I don't agree with him on a lot. And so actually paradoxically I give those interviews subjects more space to say what they want. Because I'm not going to change his mind on anything so I tend to sit it back and just figure if I give him space to say the things he believes we will learn something more whereas if I stop him and push back and quarrel that what happens is the subject will often shut down down and feel like. Oh here's another hostile interviewer from the liberal media and it actually end up being worse interview in which we will learn less we have no dearth of places to go witness. Shout fests between trying to make points right now. I think a lot of our listeners actually had another thought in mind which was not that I could have changed mark allies view but they I felt that I as an ally to queer people especially Queer Jews Odia to them to be an upstanding bystander. That when somebody Said said something that seems drawn analogy between gay people and Nazis. Although I want to be fair I think that Mark Kelly just chose his words poorly. I don't think he actually thinks gay people are like Nazis. I think that's A charitable he was talking offensive sentiments in general right and chose a bad example. Right listening to the show. I did not actually thing yet. The acquainted one with the other. But I understand how listeners would have heard that really bridled and recoiled and how it would have felt to them and so the question is why didn't you stand up for us and I hear that and and I think there are conflicting things there. I think there are conflicting impulses there if I have to inspect who I was being at that time one is yes I do have a world of listeners. Who might have asked me to say as something but the other is again? I invited Mark Galli on the show right mark. Kelly didn't pitch us this. He didn't have a publicist. Say Oh can we come on Unorthodox. We invited him here. As our guest whom we wanted to learn from and better understand the evangelical mindset and remember. He came on as somebody who had already taken enormous heat for criticizing president trump. So he was already very embattled and and again I think that I defaulted to the sense that I was the host and frankly there are times when it's not profitable to stop people in push back against them. That might not be satisfying into some of our listeners. I understand that but I think we all make these decisions on the fly a lot and I trust that our listeners know that I don't think that the analogy is perfect. I I don't think that baking a cake for a gay couple which is something I would do. Although I bake poorly Is it why would a gay couple couple kicked by you. Nobody nobody would WANNA GEEK BY V. I think our listeners know where I stand on that and we had someone on the show who chose an analogy that I would never have chosen but you know what he was our guest and the most important thing to me was. Let's have an interview where he feels the free to share who he is. Because we don't hear from a lot of Evangelical Christians and we can learn something and some of our listeners. Here's wrote in and we're appreciative of that. So we're always grateful for all the feedback. Hallelujah you may remember that in last week's news of the Jews we talked about the Hate crime in which if somebody threw a piece of pork at a conservative synagogue and I joked that the people that are conservative synagogue or reformed temple would take the piece of inside fried up good at eat et because they largely keep kosher. Now one letter very angry and said this is yet another case of you demeaning reform and conservative Judaism to which I respond. Hey Pow I'm on the Board of my conservative synagogue. Ah President is considered like no I know conservative Judaism and I know that a lot of my fellow congregants eat pork and a lot of people in the conservative movement even eat pork and I was having some fun at the expense of movement that I proudly belong to who summer camps I send my daughter to. WHO's Day school? I send a different daughter too and the fact is a lot of these fellow conservative. Jews even gorge whose motto you have tattooed on your shoulder. That's right. I am in Minya more than I. Love Them. MM-HMM I happen to be a vegetarian and I don't eat pork. I'm imagining fellowship with them fellowship. With them I do bibles I do. Wednesday Bible study with them I happen to be a vegetarian. Who even when I cheat and eat meat? I don't eat pork but you know what that's me. Lots of my fellow conservative Jews eat pork and I was having some fun at my movements expense. We got this letter from a listener. Who totally got it? He writes my father was a kosher butcher in Cleveland for more than thirty years well Marx observation that many conservative Jews eat pork but won't admit it was was just as true thirty years ago as it is now many years after his death I discovered that after closing his shop at around four PM on Fridays. My dear sweet dad would go to Harvey's a RIB joint about five storefronts down from his butcher shop and shout down on pork ribs at a table set up in the back room where nobody would see him. It made me laugh and remembering with even more fondness to learn of his taste for back ribs when it took me until the age of sixteen to work up the courage to take my first illicit taste of Bacon. Have a great day all Richard Silverman Eh. Dick's Overman. You remind me it was the first episode of Six feet under the first episode of the dad dies and they discover that he has a private apartment where he's is gone to just like sit and smoke. Pot discovered a weed lehrer. We're escapes his family of crazy kids at crazy wife. It goes to you discovered that your dad at a special pork room at Harvey's that is awesome Yet a tree cave of you leave. Hypocrisy is human and God loves us Anyway call it a its complexity. Complexity is human. Call US nine one. Four five seven zero four eight six nine or write to us or send us a voice memo UNORTHODOX OPS at tablet MAG DOT com. You know sometimes we We do stuff apart. Stephanie only all went to Sutton place synagogue. A few months ago and met cantorial student Jacob Sandler at the evening services they are. I didn't meet him then but they they said it's okay. We gotta bring this in studio and so we did have alyssum. We are here with Jacob Sandler. He's a student at J. T. S.. We met him during our visit to the Sutton Place Synagogue Synagogue in Manhattan. He too was visiting there that night and we knew we had to get him on this show. Welcome hi thanks. It's great to be here. We have questions for you so Stephanie and I were sitting I'm GonNa Pews and we saw you doing incredible thing. We get up in front of a room of complete strangers and lead them in a song they had never heard and you did. It's like really helpful thing with your hands like you say ha and then you go haha. You seem to be really into it and to me. I cannot think of a single human interaction that is more mortifying than king strangers to sink. Tell us how does that feel the moment. Well well you know. It's one of my favorite things to do is teach people how to sing because singing gives me such joy and I'd like to give back and all that sort of nicely stuff but also I. I got my degree in music education occasion before I started cantorial school and so I need to believe that everyone can do it. or I be out of a job. You're that kid growing up. You're you're the singing kids. Yeah I mean more or less. I started on piano and started singing. I wasn't even that good really until like junior year of high school but no one told me so it was okay and yeah you know getting up in in front of a group of people. I don't know what they know. Assume they know like the standard Jewish tunes that everybody knows what you're mostly Karl Bach and like Debbie Friedman. And then I come in. I'm like they probably don't know this one but I like this one and I want them to see something new. That was what we had discussed before I got there. It was like we want to show them. What else is out there? So like come and take us out of our comfort. It's my great okay. And then what I'll do is I use my hands to conduct the melody line so that they can sort of see directionally like it's getting higher both in space and in you you know pitch and now it's getting lower. It's it's almost like bobby mcferrin where he would like jump across the stage and he's like this is the note here then he jump over here and he'll be over this loan like dumb bomb bump bump bump bump whatever you would do and I'm doing the same thing with my hands. You know dumb but it turned out that sort of thing we back up a second. I always love hearing about clergy journeys right. So where are you from sure. What did you think you were going to do when you were five years old tan lead you make the decision from just music to cantorial music? Yeah she's amazing. Well I started. I grew up in Rockland. County New York and so I was sort of Jewish. BIOS Moses said Kosher Food and yet I went to public school and did my thing. The journey like career wise was like in sixth grade. Kids said you should be a rabbi. Because I was the only one in Hebrew school that thought to read the Hebrew ahead therefore sir. Yeah I knew what I was doing but I didn't WanNa do that then or now. And then in like ninth grade. I realized I really wanted to give back to those things which really shaped my childhood. And that's how I knew I wanted to be a cartoonist. But that didn't really pan out either because I think it was around junior year when I took a flash animation course in high school because I had a cool high school and I also also took music theory and animation was like really really tedious and exhausting and I only did it in school and music theory which is like so fun. Ex- well yeah so music theory. I would like go home and I was playing piano and singing in the shower and like analyzing Bach counterpoint. For Fun and I was like maybe this is the direction I should go since I'm doing it anyway. So wind chill will so that's a great question too. I I grew up at camp in the Berkshire is that's a camper on. My daughter wouldn't go to. Yeah well she's she's New England so I was going to say is it because of our their stuff going on their reputation to well. You know. It's The New York metropolitan area in West Chester and your Long Island. Apparently you guys bring to phones the one that they confiscate and then the secret. It's an iphone touch. It doesn't have cellular. That's why I can hear you calling your mom on Shabbat in the bathroom late. None of that's okay. I started as a counselor and and then when I was in school to be a music teacher which was like a music profession. That might pay me. Little known fact music teachers get paid so justified going back to camp after summer or by being on music staff so it was like direct experience in air quotes like with almost like an internship. So I didn't have to get a real job because this was my real job and by doing that they would send me to different like professional development things with their budget. So I went to Havana. Sheera I which was actually a U. R. J. Reform Song Leading Conference that was started by Debbie. Friedman admits and Jeff Clapper and people like that and I remember leaving the first year. I was there on the bus and I'm like man. There's just not enough Jews in music school. There's not enough enough music at Jewish camp. Where can I go to this kind of like excellent musical Jewish experience and my friend goes to school? Okay Okay what is your family. Say when you're like okay. I'm going in cantorial school for me. Not taking the cats again sister is in getting an MD PhD and her name is Rachel so she got the Jewish name and actually I guess the Jewish career and a real career. She's a she's going to be the doctor in the family. So that takes the pressure as the Middle Child. I don't have to be the oldest and the most whatever but there are actually quite proud. It's really sweet to see they're like it's amazing. I come back from like different gigs and I tell them how much I made for. Like a Shabbat or this and that and they're like wow. It's actually pretty good. And what are you even do what you just like leading the prayers. You did that for free for your Bar Mitzvah. I'm like yeah I get paid more to do a little bit less because they don't actually make me retort. My internship we the the Motto Control School get paid more to do a little bit less sexually. Yes you're in control school but but I think you're being on this podcast is a big deal. Your family right. Yeah well my mom listens to this podcast. And her name is Hanni Sandler Shadow Tahani Sam all right so it's now time to make honey proud to lead us and so I love me do this. Oh Jay Ready. Are you ready to do the hand thing. How January warm-ups ups today no but I will in a moment Great what a so I get to pick the song could use. Could I love learning new tunes into a done alarm so if you want to do in a donut alarm. That's great. Do the traditional. Don't Olam to the backstreet boys. Yes yes yes yes I definitely. Are you after Milan. Force Betsy boys for him. The job the backstreet boys. I used to dance around on the catch my living. I like this a lot. Yes yeah it was the cutest thing when this kid came up to me like new traditional which ones that goes he goes. I don't know I don't know that. Much share Ma bit. Tehran Co Pay Room. Go you know so. The eight nurse Arba ebbed so cool ship. Neutra it's the best and traditional. Yeah and I'd like right and so I was sitting here and I'm going to be justified. There's a lot going on right. You're familiar I think. Donald Trump asking mark oppenheimer is familiar with the hoover of the backseat boys. It's the president. Tell us what's on. This is set to backstreet. Actually Boys Song. I want it that way. which is a classic tune about love it? I think maybe even heartbreak at ain't nothing but a heartache. So I'm just going to do like the regular part you guys be the you know the Tommy wise is your lead lead us. So I'm GonNa like gesture to me when it's my turn and is often my tournament a gesture you guys when it's your turn so I don't no no Lomb my share Butare Room call eight asa is I if you heard they almost they sort. I just started to come in right in the middle of that last line and that was why I was just like with sort of a rotating hands and elbows like no altogether come together that sort of motion which she's a great song leading to a four colon together. Now we sing together these amazing tastic. Jacob Sandler thank you for being with US extra having me. I'm sending him along. You're welcome for putting on a show your best you leave a Mazal Tov. This week. I have an amazing muscle tone so you may remember former Unorthodox guest and and friend of the show Rabbi Dr Stu Halpern. Yaakov Yeshiva. University fame indeed learned earlier in the week. Rabbi Sue hat for the first time ever in his life a piece of Bacon even more shocking than that tried. Hamas rabbi still had gone through thirty odd years and several choose choose a hummus virgin thousands of Chabad meals without ever once tasting the delectable delicious nectar of life. That is Komo's how is that even possible. I don't know but rabbi STU my friend welcome to the club. Rabbi Stu you are now a Jew welcome of to the club. We have a model that came in over the listener line. We want to wish a huge hardy. Big throated Jolly Mazal Tov to our fans. KANTER CANTOR EMMA and Rabbi Adam Lutts on the birth of their first baby Ruby Mira was born on January third and we love her already. This came in from your friend. Sorry sorry and we heartily endorse the sentiment Mazal Tov to the whole family and one of my own. My Niece Marlene tremor rocked. Par Shot Bush Shylock at her Bat Mitzvah at said at one hundred and west end this past Chabad. Does that mean she had the same parcels. Rebecca t did have the same pastas Rebecca and and I said to Rebecca's sitting there in the pews kind of You'RE GONNA that's how you pronounce it. Yeah you sure you could buy stuff you can go up there at But don't it larger lead brought her own swerve her own mo Jo her own a game to the partial and it was a beautiful service but own spin and basilica was darker. It was kind of like like the joker. A song was kind of minor key with some big organ chords and therapy in the back and Marley did a great job. And I couldn't be more proud as an uncle Mazal Tov Marley friends. You know that sometimes we turn to you in the J. crew for content. We need you. We have some really good themed episodes coming up and we need your input so think hard if you have anything to contribute if you want to be interviewed if you WanNa read something on the air if you want to help us in any way for any of these episodes were going to do a show about Jewish hair. That's not just for women that's not just people with curly hair. It's whatever Jewish hair means to you. Do you have anything to tell. Tell us about your experience with Jewish hair. Also what about converting we always do our conversion episode around Chavalit. That's this spring. Please let us know. Are you going through a conversion to you. Know someone one who's gone through conversion. Did you convert have terrible experience. Did you convert and then convert back. Are you thinking about converting. Whatever the story is we want to hear it and finally we're we're bringing back the Jews around America episode? Only this time we're calling Jews around the world. Do you have a story from a tiny or lesser known or neglected Jewish community anywhere. Are you from a place where nobody whatever think. There's a Jew did you ever in your travels come to a place region. Think you'd find a Jew but you found one. Were you ever to Shebab dinner in an area of the world where you wouldn't think Jus we're even allowed Jews around the world coming up this July. So Jewish hair conversion Jews around the world what you got for us. People email us at UNORTHODOX TALENT DOT COM or call us levers of westbound nine one four five seven zero four eight six nine unorthodox brought to you by Tablet magazine on the web at tablet MAG dot com send this your thoughts on orthodox a tablet dot com or call us nine one four or five seven zero four eight six nine we do a newsletter it's written by one Liel Liebowitz. You can subscribe by going to dot slashed slash Unorthodox podcast. You should wear and carry on Orthodox are you Hannukah shopping for next Hanukkah or just birthday. Shopping would bit dot L. Y. Slash Ortho shirt and find the latest in Unorthodox shirts mugs and onesies follow us on Instagram at Unorthodox podcast on twitter at Unorthodox. Underscore pod join our facebook produced by Dot Cross says you producers are Seraphim and Alana Levinson out. 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Headspace: Ep. 234

Unorthodox

59:10 min | Last month

Headspace: Ep. 234

"I don't know if this is a summer episode or not feels summary. This is an orthodontic universe leading Jewish podcast. I'm your host mark. Alvin Heimer joined by two other hosts, the regular other host. The CO hosts tablet deputy editor, Stephanie Neck Hello and the editor at large Liel Liebowitz. The other other host other host this week on Unorthodox. We bring you an episode. That's been in the works for a long long time and that I feel is actually going to really hit the sweet spot for. For a lot of people at a time when we're all sort of saying, what is our most authentic self? What is our relationship to the universe How do we really look inwards for who we want be and what our deepest values are, and the reality is that for some people not for all people, but for some people one avenue to that kind of introspection to that kind of spiritual engagement is psychedelic drugs. And we've been working for quite some time on a special. Look at Jews and Psychedelia, so here's where I should say that if you are worried about listening to a podcast that speaks of drugs, warmly and positively, or if your own recovery journey, maybe it would not be healthy for you to listen to such a podcast. You should skip this week's episode, but if you're intrigued to hear our take on how Jewishness might inform psychedelic use, or how psychedelic drugs in a Jewish context can help you grapple with spiritual and moral questions. Then I hope you'll stick with us because I think we have a pretty special episode for you. So here's what I'd like to I'd like to get the news of the juice. I I'd like to look outside of our basement studios and look at the world, and what's going on with Jews out there in the world, and then once we've covered that territory. I would like to look inwards and begin talking about Jews and PSYCHEDELIA. How does that work for You Stephanie? Only L., chill. Yes, once we've done talking about this. We'd like to put on a fish album. Stare at the wall. Get really groovy man like. But I by favorite news of the Jews item this week, and a little bit tricky in its own right facebook prank tricks thousands into thinking that back to the future actors Israeli couple from the nineteen fifties now unsurprisingly to those of you who have listened to me at all, I love the movie back to the future I think it's one of the great works of art ever made and I was so excited to see this piece from the Jewish Telegraphic Agency last week, thousands of Jews in Israel and beyond responded to a plea for help in identifying A. A couple pictured in a yellow and photograph nineteen fifty-five, a guy named Ariel Plotnik, forty-three-year-old tourism salesperson from far Saba wrote in both Hebrew and Spanish in a facebook post. Hey, everyone I need help. I found this picture. A Tel Aviv street I want to return this beautiful photograph. If you share it, maybe we can find the owners and the Post God's shared all over creation and a slightly altered picture of Crispin Glover and Leah Thompson playing George and Lorraine. Nick fly in the flashback sequence, which is most of the movie back to the future so this? Some people got it. Some people said Oh my God. That's the Nick flies. It turns out that Plotnik was just it was just goofing. He didn't think that people would actually think it was a lost is really couple by the way little known fact day survived the Holocaust by getting into a delorean in Krakow can. They went back and killed him. A. Baby Hitler and so everything about this story is basically like Jews. Love Genealogy right now so much that people here I like people thought that they like could identify who had identify who these people were from Polish town, and it Kinda shows how. I guess how Gullible. Sometimes we are on the Internet. There's MC fleiss scenes from Tennessee by. Knows that it's funny, 'cause I always thought the Israelis loved Seinfeld more than anything, but I guess they also love to the future, but it turns out that Crispin Glover and Leah Thompson are not the only eighties actors in the news of the Jews. This week's Stephanie Ellwood. One of you like to catch up on the a writer. Mel Gibson Contretemps. I would be happy to so. So, basically Mel Gibson over the years. We've heard some like pretty horrible things that he said when he got stopped for drunk driving in I, think two thousand five. He said like the Jews control everything Jews make all the wars which was like a very weird thing to suddenly say your call. The the female arresting officer sugar to you will never fail to remind us The basically winona. Ryder didn't interview recently with the Sunday Times and someone had asked her does she experienced anti-semitism in Hollywood and she sort of had a few examples and one of them was basically you know she was at a party with Mel Gibson, and he said something homophobic to a friend of hers who was with her, and then he looked at her, and she's Jewish and said you're not an oven dodger are. An oven dodger is like a horrible and also like very very retro like an old school antisemitic insult the idea that you dodged ovens in the Holocaust degree. The oven dodger is he's not just resorting. It's not like you're not one of those sheens, are you? You're not a Heeb the curatorial aspect of it in what cigar filled back room in his weird little sect. Sect of Trad Catholocism were they thinking of new and interesting things to call Jews and who was it who, after the third brandy, said oven dodger. That's the thing you come up with it three in the morning after you've been working on it all night so okay. You're calling someone in oven dodger, so you acknowledge that there were ovens that people like you actually. It's it's a totally messed up thing to say, but it acknowledges the Holocaust and acknowledges something that actually a lot of Holocaust deniers deny that. Mindset that says like Hitler didn't kill any Jews, but if he did it's only because all of them deserved it, and he was a wise man, right like it's which is it and then of course Gibson denies all of this and says that she's like has a vendetta against him or something like that. WINONA Ryder did not make up a lie about Mel Gibson, in which he called her an oven dodger that that came from life, not from her sick twisted Jewish mind right sue guys would now be a good time for me to a mounted Defensive Mel Gibson God. Cool, are we in that stay? No better go for it first of all. If we have arrived so deep in the analysis of canceled culture, in which everyone is canceled in, people really should be cancelled. Aren't canceled in everything is just. It's like Jakobsen fiery mess. I'm just going to go with the people I generally enjoy and pay no attention to what it is at the actually said, or did and Mel, Gibson I genuinely fricking, enjoy Mel Gibson and here's why I enjoy Mel Gibson I enjoy Mel. Gibson not despite but because of the things that you just said I like my anti-semites raw i. don't like the Mike. You're Kinda country like you. Oven Dutcher Vatican two was ally, and you killed Christ. That is my variety of Anti Semite that my friend is commitment to the pursuit of the hatred of Jews and choose. We should appreciate that someone took so much time to actually come up with the theology of why they hate us. This is not casual. You're like honored like. Self Hating. We all are that were like they took the time to like to figure out why they hated us. It's also painting. Nemesis have a serious nemesis. Don't have some like casual. We'll you know according to intersectional? You guys like I. Don't want that I want like you killed Jesus, and the Holocaust never happened as like sir. Now, the game is a except to say like. Mel Gibson so creepy and so disgusting, and like visually he's just like so leathery at this point that I'm like you actually are the lead of a horror movie and what you're going to do is just like haunt my nightmares I feel like this deserves deeper inspection and I'd like to go very philosophical and say that in all canceled culture decisions about antisemites. You're either John Cusak or a Mel. Mel Gibson I personally don't enjoy mega movies much at all I guess. The early lethal weapon was fine. There was a kind of joy to braveheart, though I don't really WanNa Watch it again, but John cusack. Of course you know I. Mean Better off dead. Say Anything Grosse Pointe Blank I mean there are few more important actors in the Canon. He so essential to my life, and he of course periodically tweet stuff that does cross the Line A. Genteel anti Zionism right over into antisemitism. So just a recent example. He tweeted the antisemitic mean that shows a hand stamped with the Star of David. Squashing a bunch of people down and has the quote under it to learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize now. I have no interest in cancelling John. I'll just be perfectly honest cancer. I mean I want his movies to still be shown on cable networks I want him to be brought out of formaldehyde periodically for a new movie I. Want my daughter to memorize. Say anything like I can't really envision a generative fruitful life going forward without John Q., Cusak art in it. However I'd throw Mel Gibson under the bus. Because I think movies are not that good and. And Lake he calls people of dodgers, but I know that you're not there with me. You would do the reverse. You know what you should do I think we should do like carbon tax credits, I think we each get like five like anti Semitic points that we get to spend on. Actors aren't detainers. It'd be really like, and then we could just trade like I'll give you John cusack I could do without you know. Say Anything, but GIMME lethal weapon, 'cause. It's a frigging awesome movie. This very very confusing and I will say I. Don't agree with I. Appreciate the time. Munich parsing of celebrity, antisemitic. Mattis. Had that we're doing that important work here. Guys I will say that I was initially sceptical when the idea of Jews and psychedelics episode was proposed. I sort of was like. I don't know feels like we're like glomming onto something trying to make like edgy and cool. What what could they really really be I have to say? That I was really convinced by what I heard but our listeners will hear later on in this episode, and it kind of got me thinking about like you know we talk about like are Jews. Big Drinkers I. I mean obviously our everyone so Jews do all sorts of things on whether or not? They like go sailing reclaim across some of them. Do but I think if I have to pop culture rate, which is where I so often go to figure out what our cultural standard-bearers are I mean when I think about like Jews and drugs Bradley I really think about the. The like Jewish donor. Bro, that's SORTA like come out in the judd appetite movies like Seth. Rogan Pineapple Express Jonah Hill all these basically like lovable Bros. who just like love to get stoned, and that's kind of become a weird movie. archetype and I don't know how much their Jewishness is involved in that I think you're onto something very very profound. Stephanie thank you and. And I think that I did a lot of deep deep deep scholarship on this in college, published in many peer reviewed. Journals cited in many supreme. Court cases. You have your money Jews. You have your sports Jews. You have your book Jews. You did have your drug juice. We call them crispy. Jews and these were Jews. who were you know there was something? Going to proceed delicately here often, they had really curly hair. Sometimes they would do it in dreads, which is now a controversial thing to do and seen as a kind of cultural appropriation, but people didn't think about as much in the mid nineties, and even in a kind of Adam, durrance lead singer of the counting crows sort of way. There was a sense that because of their swerving is and. That they were kind of tiptoeing toward a Rastafarian vibe I'm not endorsing any of this or defending I'm saying I think there was that sense there? So when they rolled up a fatty and put on some reggae or some jam band music and kicked back wearing a Baja drug, and maybe like sort of Jamaican knit cap. There was a sense there that they were doing something exceedingly. Exceedingly ethnic with their drug use, and I don't know that they theorized it that way, but it was impossible not to begin thinking in those terms especially if they were sharing the the fatty with you. Sort of two roads that diverged in the woods was kind of Rastafarian reggae vibe, and one was a more jam band, grateful, Dead Fish Vibe, but they were both very real. Real and I think Judaism played a big part in both of them so I basically want to sub. Read it your observation, because while you did. Taxonomy is in college. Know what I did in College Drugs I. Did all the drugs and college so literally years in which there would not be drugs in Israel because I probably did all of them there are I think. Think if you're into the business of taxonomy thing, I would say that there are probably four sub categories separate. If you will of drug users, he's the genus of the speeches. Let us observe them and see. Where are people fit in this conversation? There are the people who are into blow the blow. becks. We call them. who enjoy cocaine very much, which is a? There are probably some Jews in that group. Yeah, cocaine is Goya's I'm GONNA I'm GonNa, take a stand. Coca Goya's cocaine is for people who want to have fun for very short periods of time, and then forget about the consequences. This is not our people is what I'm saying. Then there's heroin of which you know. Certainly there are people who are addicted to this terrible and seriously kind of like you know life altering drug probably some juice in there. There too, but there's nothing inherently Jewish the desire to basically suppress any and all feeling and suffering and pain again historically not us which leaves you with two choices with pot and psychedelics. Pot is for the people who basically kind of aren't really ready to commit yet. They're sort of in it for the ride. Maybe they like fish. Maybe they like lying on the dorm room floor and looking at that poster of Albert. Einstein sticking out his tongue. psychedelics is for people who enjoy being in their own head for very long periods of time while contemplating every tiny a Yoda of human existence. It's like studying Thomas. It's going to show the morning of Yankee poor. It's engaging in so many other kind of mystical Hasidic, ballistic experiences that really force you to push against. You know the the outer outer realms. It's GERSHOM. SCHOLEM strug. It's Martin. BUBER DRAWS YOU WANNA. See the spheroid. You want to see the real kind of outer layers of of the universe. Yemen metoo for both of you. you know to the extent you're willing to share. Did you find yourself drawn at particular times or places to psychedelics was, were you? Guy, one million percent pot is really nice, but I find pot honesty as especially as I grow older to be kind of a waste of time like it just mellows you out a little bit, but like a good Rosa will achieve the same thing. psychedelics is when the journey really becomes super interesting. The only problem of course is that the long term price of admission is extreme. You don't want to do too much of that, or it will do too much of you. Seventy about neck. I would say. Say the my interest in psychopharmacology deals more with like the here and now the day to day of existence, not the other rounds, so if what I'm asking is am I the only one of the three of us who wants to Amsterdam specifically to have a drug weekend did mushrooms, and then went to the van Gogh Museum and finished it off with the end. Frank House that would be only me, or that'd be every other do in existence whoever had two hundred dollars and a free weekend? You're. You're smart. Start at the Van Gogh Museum because I started at the end Frank House of just as the shrimps kicked and let me tell you it was not an experience that I care to return to in my mind. And it ended with me literally running, screaming out of the Frank House finding the nearest park and hugging a tree for wild justice. Soothe myself because it was not a good ride. You know it's funny like with that movie the. Fault in our STARS AS Roma's mad that they were. Were making out in the Anne Frank House when they went to visit it. I'm I think you're totally right like an cows is like on your list of things to do all in Amsterdam. Also on your list of things to do all in Amsterdam I think for a lot of people are you know are sort of like recreational drugs, and so I'm not actually surprised at the idea that like young Jews abroad go to the Frank House, and like I'm climbing up the staircase like they have a truly. Don't want to say transcendent. I WANNA say probably quite disturbing experience, but maybe that heightens it I don't know. That was really the only time I ever did. Psychedelics was that weekend long ago in Amsterdam and I did love them and I have thought ever since that. If God forbid I'll just be totally real here. If God forbid I ever got diagnosed with terminal disease or just had some sense, the end was near. I can't see why wouldn spend my last six months or two years tripping my ass off now. The answer to that I've gotten from some people. There's no you'd spend that time. Time trying to be really present, because you have a wonderful family and children and God willing. You'll have grandchildren and like you'll want to be there for them, but I like to think I'd find time for both you know it's funny. My plan has always been that the moment they hit. Say like seventy five. I'm basically going to drop acid like three times a week and I'm saying this only half ingest. Here's the thing that I learned Synnex. Don't actually make you into someone you aren't. Aren't really I think very few drugs do what they do is help you kind of peel off a lot of the layers that by default. We're kind of forced to sort of ossified into not to get too dorm room Friday nights to I. AM conversation here. We're way past that, but like there are so many occasions in life, in which we just harden into certain positions into certain feelings into certain books into certain ways of seeing ourselves right this. This is why Ramdas who you'll hear. Hear about a little bit soon in in the Great Alex. Wall piece later in this episode was such a genius. Here's a man who is a Harvard professor at like twenty eight or something like that successful, and and you know, has it all in all the societal respect could want and all the money he could want, but feels like there's really not much there to be had a needed. started off with psychedelic says as as a means to peel off all that dead spiritual skin. To me, that's the part that makes it really really interesting. It's other Oh man I got high, and it's really nice. That part is actually really juvenile, and also like from I discovered later in life I. Actually don't do psychedelics anymore because in a weird way I. don't like it when the trip ends and I figured out that there are ways to take the seemed journey without the chemicals. Once you kind of have seen the the contours of the path. I think prayer. Prayer is that I think you know a lot of other kind of work that you do with other human beings and communal forms and invitation. ETC is that that's the part that really interests me right? It's part of really getting to the point that I'm past myself and I'm passed all these wait. that was otherwise on my shoulders all. Does that mean that you are not when retain of seventy five going to do massive amounts of acid thrice weekly or you are. Now he's GonNa. Put on to fill in, and he's GonNa. Pray three times a day because I'm looking. When I turned soda in the Year Two Thousand Fifty when I heard seventy six, I'm actually looking for a drug buddy, and if it's not you, it's GonNa be Stephanie Stephanie. YOU IN I. Won't be seventy-five yet, so I'm GONNA be a little bit behind Bindu. Sixty three and living life liles, going to be clean and Vegan and praying a lot and Stephanie, still going to be in the prime of life I'm going. Be I'M GONNA be out there on the clifftop by myself. Fans at the J. crew you know if you have nothing to do in August of two thousand fifty when I turned seventy-six. Join me Maybe we'll be in Vermont somewhere. some government, mule or fish on the boombox, and we'll see where it takes us well. Government Mule getting shot at two weeks in a row on this show two weeks in a row. But we're just amateur. After Jewish psychedelic experience, our ASE contributor Alex Walkin. You heard from with the extraordinary piece about V. on our conversion episode several weeks ago is back in a little bit with the story of era by a venture capitalist who survived the Holocaust and the question of what it would be like, if at Kish after services, instead of having just schmear of bagels and cream cheese, we decided to microdosing LSD but I will tell us about the conversation that you had this week. I think that next to sex and religion. Drugs are probably the hardest thing to get right in writing right every time you write about drugs, drug experiences. It sounds like you're like. Far Out man I'm trying to be one of the cool kids, but Jesse Jar now. WHO's an amazing musician and also an amazing journalists? Reporter and writer wrote a book call heads, which is the definitive biography of how psychedelic culture arose in the United States in the last five or six decades. That also answers the question of. Why did so many Jews please such key parts in this movement and Indus, culture? Our guest today is the Great Jesse John. Who wrote this book heads, which is really sort of an astonishing history of the psychedelic movement. In America, the grateful dead can casey everything you ever wanted to know. It's an enormously entertaining and informative. RE JESSE WELCOME TO UNORTHODOX. Appreciate it reading this book. Maybe it's my own biopsies casino, the host of a Jewish podcast be it's my own bias because I've dabbled in psychedelics, but it seemed to me like a lot of these cats who made the psychedelic movement possible in America. A lot of them seem Jewish. Jewish, some of them are actually Jewish. That's not a coincidence. I don't think a lot of PSYCHEDELIC movement. In especially in the United, states really rooted in colleges and universities especially around the northeast i. don't totally know the exact numbers, but those are pretty traditionally. Jewish strongholds, and there's a very wrong tradition in Judaism of questioning and wondering and I think psychedelics speak to of people who have been. been brought up in that weird space between Judaism and secular skepticism. Let's begin in the beginning, so it's now the fifties. It's the East Village Slash California. Tell us a little bit about how this movement takes hold, and how it takes flight, our Hoffman invented LSD in the forties, and later called it an antidote to the atom bomb kind of an accidental discovery. And throughout the forties and fifties, there was this real emphasis on exploration. It's almost like in a way. It's kind of the Kale and like almost like the Victorian age of exploration or something like that, or where you have these stories and like life magazine, where like the cover story in life magazine and I think in nineteen. Fifty seven is about you know this joining to Mexico to discover these amazing mushrooms, which turned out to be Tila, Simon and that becomes this huge front page story in in life, magazine and kind of puts the idea of psychedelics into circulation kind of almost. Maybe more like a meam than an actual thing that was available which I was shocked to learn from your book. I mean at this time to cover of life. It's like five and a half million copies and it wasn't a Oh. My God a new menace rises. It was sort of like. Hey, look at this interesting thing. You cite in your book that people would lead us to the editor saying well I to participate. That's kind of amazing right. So how does it go from this to too bad? If you beat the mid fifties as kind of the immersion of psychedelics into like mainstream, consciousness through articles like this. Really like a ten year period where psychedelics are treated in the press, basically like they are now as kind of miracle substances. Really know everything they can do but. He helps cure this that kind of thing and there's this wonderful book. I'll for somebody else's book called acid hype, which is an academic study of the way aphids specifically, but psychedelics in general were treated in in the press in the late fifties and early sixties, and you really see this start to happen kind of in the early sixties. Clever that Timothy leary starts popping up in headlines and shouting about the radical possibilities of LSD. There's really like a very harsh public turn, and these scare stories start appearing in the early sixties, and all these reasons for that and it's there's no one big anti LSD conspiracy that suddenly turned everything bad, but you see lots of these kind of like little things like and we are as the biggest example. Of where you look at the Harvard campus looks like before and after Harvard Tila Simon Project began, and you pretty clearly see them sowing the seeds of chaos. On the college campus and you kind of see that that anti -tarian reaction to to psychedelics, kind of popping out wherever psychedelics appear, it always is a natural reaction to Second Alex. I feel like there's very few Universal Reaction Society, no negative reaction to authority I, think is one of the big ones that sort of what becomes clear I think in the early sixties that begins to turn the tide. Do you think that's sort of a universal reaction or do you think that was heightened by the socioeconomic political trends that were already in the? 'cause you bring your culture with you wherever you are whatever your culture is whatever you've been raised in. That's the starting point. It's not like LSD or any like Alex. make you a blank slate, so yes in I in late nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties. I think that's absolutely correct that it really does seem like it was reflection of the world that you know. A lot of these people were in right because the thing that kept into my mind as I was reading your book, it seemed to me almost like psychedelics traveled a very similar path to bagels. They begin as. Terek thing that Jews do just for their own illumination, and then all of a sudden the gentiles figure it out, and then you could get it at the airport in Kentucky, and then it's no longer cool right. Can't quite get those at the airport yet, but. There's also this whole other parallel thread of steaming and of being part of the power structure and being part. You know people who were higher up getting you see that examples of like Clare Loose booth who is one of the co-owners of life magazine who's extremely the definition of conservative and I think I might get this one. I think the first trip she actually got like. Sit Nixon Eisenhower. Wing person called her on the phone during her. I you know that kind of thing, so you do see kind of inserting itself into the halls of power as well and in those places. There's absolutely not anti authoritarian things happening. In all these places simultaneously right, but once he that I learned from your book, which I hadn't considered before, which makes perfect sense to me is the fact that you know this starts, and the I, if they're use this religious terminology, high priests of this new religion, right or of this movement, people like Allen Ginsberg are genuinely interested in it in large part, because what it could do to you spiritually right because it could open all kinds of us all detox famous metaphor here it could open all kinds of doors of perception, and they're genuinely as you said curious about using this as a sort of. Of Way to induct the elites into this new movement, and you're right in the book. How Allen Ginsberg walks around and gives it literally every musician painter poet, you know he could find sort of knocking about the village to get this kind of movement started, and then all of a sudden it becomes mass, and as you said, reflects a whole different slew of sexual psycho dynamics that are going on in the culture. So was that a moment of heartbreak the moment were were these kind of I and again largely Jewish. Founders realized that their quest to create new avenues for spiritual awakenings. We're now just basically. Party drug I. Don't find that heartbreaking I. Don't to get back to Ginsburg. Doing that I. do want to differentiate between the founders of life, magazine and kind of the jazz musicians. GINSBURG was turning on which is a totally different kind of. Hundred million. Dollars Difference Between them. And you know that's games where it was trying to find kind of. A leak in my mind, you know he's trying to find the heads Kinda. And I guess that's the reason why I don't find that heartbreaking is because the part that I find heartbreaking is negative reaction to it in terms of making it illegal, because suddenly people are having these bad flip outs. I feel like that could have been dealt with in another way, but to me that the reason is how heartbreaking is access basically? To me that still the main problem of the contemporary. Movement or recurrent medical moment is that it is you know it really is about access. And in a way, I really do think that mid sixties moment where people like ours Lee. Stanley were starting to like manufacturer black-market LSD in qualities was about providing access and was like you know making it this thing that it wasn't. You didn't have to be very special. Person plugged into the special social network. Get, you could get it because humans should have access to it. People like obviously Stanley and expand him scully, who were the actual black bark, after Kansas that was their motivation was to democratize it, and there are a lot of fat side effects from that. Undoubtedly. Questioning that I think the amount of places that it went after that I think that there's for me. There's far more of a positive one of my favorite bits in your book Stanley has a calculation error and moves the decimal dot like one point over and as a result, people go and three day on trips. Not. Always, the most responsible people to be handling this on the other hand I still. To trust hours lean more than I would trust pharmaceutical company to be the person to decide these. Coming LLC between. AstraZeneca and some dude in the bay area like choices pretty clear. Let me ask you this speaking of the bay area so your book. It could be your at all sorts of ways, because I'm sort of a grim and grouchy guy I kind of read it as a journey from enlightenment to darkness. It ends with Silicon Valley moment when as you said accesses is now limited to very specific Castro people who have sort of medicalising speak of microdosing, speak of kind of taking it in all kinds of ways that are tied to neuroscience at tie to sort of brightly lit labs, and again seems to me to a replanted it in an elitist socioeconomic elitist context, but also be kind of ripped away from its initial mysterious awesome I mean that were biblically side of hey, this is this is a tool for spiritual engagement. I I guess. A few ways to respond I is that when? Talking about LSD and not mushrooms, in other substances that LSD invented, it was intended to be medically, though not medically in the therapeutic sense, it was intended to be medically in the kind of fill in the blank sense like maybe really know you know what LSD was for like you look at the early history of and it's you know Sandoz. Sending these samples out to doctors saying. Hey, we've got this thing that we think is a miracle drug, but. To kind of find your own miracles for it is sort of the way they of put it. Calling it like penicillin for the mind. I feel like a phrase. They got thrown out a lot so even before it became this enlightening anarchistic. Elsie was an psychedelics were part of this medical establishment and so this current moment. Yeah, there is, there's definitely this elite aspect to it, but I also think and believe in no fact that the psychedelic underground continues unabated, and they're still massive amounts of access to these substances for people who don't who don't have access to a doctor. He's GonNa, treat them with with. Good Ms Bad. It's it's great in the sense that. My belief is that people should have to this stuff and that there are hundreds if not thousands of years of lower that go with these substances that if you're sincerely interested in investigating them as user, there's a lot of literature you can read and participate in these substances completely safely. Medical Sal. Schmidt I guess that's my feeling is bad. World those worlds now. In parallel in a way that they didn't really in the fifties and the sixties, whereas in the fifties, you had the medical establishment in the sixties. You kind of have this anarchistic underground access to it. Those were kind of almost like two distinct periods, and now I really feel like both of those things exist simultaneously. There's a lot of bleed between those. Those two worlds, there's a lot of grey areas the heart of your book, perhaps or a heart of your book is kind of like great description of the grateful dead, and the scene rounded the band's archivists and historians and fans, and and the whole culture as you see psychedelics I, don't see, begin to rise again, but sort of transforming into new things. Do you foresee a new culture rising with it. Are we going to have a new grateful dead type of scene? It's hard for me to say that to say as. Somebody, WHO's you know? Someone emotionally invested into Internet world is that my hope is that whenever seen emerges comes out of something that doesn't toss out what came before. You know I'm a real believer in historic lineages, and not in a power structure way, but just in the acknowledging that you have allies in in the past you can look in the fifties and the sixties and seventies, and you can look before that and find people that you think are sympathetic with your beliefs, and your your treatments of these things, and my hope is that continuity is just gonNA. Is GonNa? Continue but. I don't someday? I I'm looking at the social media platform. The future after twitter has been banned. And look at it and and suddenly discovered that there's all you know people who I'm. How Old am I? AM? I'm forty. One kept account now. I hope that someday discovered that there are people who are like forty years younger than me or thirty years younger than me who are doing something completely different based around psychedelics hat Luigia I want to end with one hard hitting question. Okay, best dead live recording. I. Try not to best one that grabs me constantly no matter when I put it on and it's. A good chunk of a chapter in the book in heads about it is the August twenty seven, nineteen, seventy-two show the old renaissance fairgrounds in Veneto Oregon, which is became the grateful dead concert movie, Sunshine Daydream, but them playing. You know tripping their faces off. The Mary Prankster in in this insane. Summer Heat and there's you know one of the most beautiful versions of dog. Star of all time it's got an incredible playing in the band meltdown, and it's really that period of of the grateful dead kind of the beginning up until seventy, three, seventy, four, seventy five. The one that just channels their second optimism in the best way so is that that's really great, but there's something about the music of. Those years that in addition to the notes in the harmonies jams being good, there's something about the energy of it that sort of crackled through a lot of those tapes and at-bat one especially just John Thank. You so much for having my pleasure. Thank you for having. Jesse Jarno Excellent book is heads a biography of psychedelic American. especially. Call me. Alvin Buddy. Do Hey, it's me. She harmon host of Israel's story. The world is obviously changed dramatically in the last few months, and while no one was left, unaffected people were affected in very different ways. Because we during corona, has been food. I love my quarantine. Actually this is. We have three continents. Invite you to listen to Israel's stories new corona virus mini series alone together. Subscribe to Israel, story and apple PODCASTS spotify Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. They. Your problem, we all can relate to the Jew of the week. Interview ends, and you have to wait an entire week for the next episode of Unorthodox. Well, here's one solution. I'm in Yemen Cohen a one time guest, Unorthodox and host of a podcast called our friend from Israel in each episode. I interview an intriguing Israeli. They come from all walks of life. Academics, artists, athletes, actors, even alien hunter. Young author who is twelve years old, asked me to bring the alien home if we ever find it like. My wife on the other hand said that if they ever offered me a ride on the spacecraft. I should make sure that they leave the car keys with her. And that they don't ruin the lawn in the backyard. Liftoff. Feel free to take a deep dive into the archive at our friend from Israel Dot Com. If you're looking for an episode to get started with one of my favorites is the conversation I had with Michael Pasok off. He's a classically trained pianist who got cancer and lost the use of his right arm, but he taught himself to play. Mozart one handed and has now given one hundred concerts for charity. He's just one of the many people you'll meet on the show. Subscribe to our friend from Israel wherever you get your podcasts. And now here's a story from reporter. Alex. Wall three Jews a guru, a Holocaust survivor and a rabbi, and their belief that we should all be following them on the Jewish psychedelic path. Late last year, the world lost one of its greatest rabbis. He didn't have a pulpit, nor was he ordained, and he probably wouldn't even defined himself as Jewish, but Rom dos was everything we think of when we think of a great rabbinic master, a Y. Seeker, a gifted teacher, a man who inspired so many to look deeper within their hearts and souls. He was born Richard Alpert and became a talented psychologist and one of Harvard's youngest star professors. Then he met Timothy Leary the father of the psychedelic movement and started dropping acid. Harvard soon fired him, but he didn't care. The drugs showed him the way, but he realized they were only the door, not the destination itself. Much doubt about it for you and me for many of us that we psychedelic chemicals, not all drugs but psychedelic councils. have capacity to cut through places where you are attached, cling to set them aside and show you a possibility. They don't allow you to become the possibility. They only show the possible. Then after a few hours you lose view of the possibility and you have it always a memory. Alpert traveled to India meditated and changed his name to Ramdas. He spent his life learning how to reach these higher spheres that spirituality Anna generation of disciples followed. The signs are everywhere, but especially here in the bay area where rabbis communists lives I was not I was not raised religious, and I did not really know much about Jewish spirituality. Zach is an Orthodox rabbi who lives with his wife and daughter in Berkeley. Was Sack had always been interested in the mystical when he was fifteen, he had an experience in Israel. That is largely responsible for turning him from the mostly secular kid. He was to the Orthodox rabbi. He is today. My teacher showed me and the layers upon layers of settlement and destruction and settlement and destruction, and there was just some lightning bolt that hit me and I interpreted this as having a direct revelation from God God, self. So when he heard the Johns Hopkins Nyu. We're looking for clergy members to take part in a study with psychedelic drugs. He said sign me up. After extensive screening, he went to Baltimore. The first time almost immediately, I started to feel something. It felt sensation in my arms, and my legs and I lay down on. The couch, was given an shade and headphones for support I've listened basically like six or seven hour playlist. Zach was given Silla Sivan. The compound found in psychedelic mushrooms. There were two guides by his side the entire time. He told me they were there to mind the shot. If, he got anxious. They would tell them to trust the flow. We it kaleidoscope of beautiful colors and lines and spirals, and felt like starting to go on a rollercoaster ride I saw like faces and forms moving in and out of each other and kind of starting to feel like there was a message to that wasn't only witnessing something, but I could see that things are connected, and although there might be diversity, it's kind of just phasing from one form to the next. It's just that in my waking mind. It just goes so slowly, but in this place in my mind's eye and being. Under the effect of this compound, something else was. Being told to me. But then the trip got much more specific. See. Zach and his wife had experienced infertility earlier in their marriage. For over a year before the study, Zach had been feeling really depressed. His faith had been badly shaken. He found himself. Questioning all his religious practices. In two thousand seventeen. They finally had a baby girl. And even though his depression began to lift, he just wasn't feeling it the way he had before. Our daughter was born three months prior to this I experience, and I had overwhelming love and gratitude for my wife, and for my daughter, and then just as a huge sense of gratitude for for God. whatever the pain had been whatever the trauma had been so maybe I didn't meet God. They're in that space, but I felt profoundly compelled to just say thank you. I felt gratitude for my my daughter being worn, but never like this. I could even feel like my brain. Chemical juices squirting out and just flowing through my body, maybe like oxytocin dopamine just like kneeling very very good. And crying. At. One Point I. Felt as though maybe. I was giving birth to my daughter, or even by giving birth to my wife, holding my daughter. Came home, with so much excitement to see his wife and daughter and more alive than he had felt a longtime. He began looking into mystical experiences in Jewish sources and found quite a bit. In fact, he's become kind of an expert on the topic. What Zach would like to see now is juice taking psychedelics with intention higher purpose, cavanaugh? Zach envisions a future where this is a regular part of Jewish practice. And he likes to point out that it's in our past. After all the ball shampoo tove founder of Pacific. Judaism in the eighteenth century believes he spoke to the Messiah and some expanded state of consciousness, bringing back a piece of wisdom. He didn't have before. Could it have been a trip. He didn't take a pill. We don't even know. It says that he did it through a hush art through an oath. We don't even know what that means. but some sort of magical or mystical or even Chamonix Process He was able to enter into something quite simply. That believes that psychedelics can blast a spiritual path for any of us who grapple with difficulties with hurt with unresolved traumas, which is to say pretty much all of us. But for one proponent of this unorthodox approach, it was a way to wrestle with some particularly mighty demons. George Silo Eighty two is a retired venture capitalist and a Holocaust survivor from Hungary. When I visited George at a San Francisco home, he told me that one guided experience with psychedelics had healed his lifelong depression. He saw his father's disappearance on the eve of world. War Two as a wound wouldn't heal. Inside the successful man was an abandoned four-year-old boy. My father was called into Nunca saw gala. Let's a Hungarian word for forced labor. When he received the telegram that yet to go. The face turned Ashen. and. The next morning he was gone. He didn't by. Howarth four years saw. And four-year-old doesn't understand is thanks and. I Mother didn't even try to explain it. But. I made up story. And the story was that my father left without saying goodbye. Because I was a bad boy. I think that stayed with me for a long long time. In Two thousand twelve. He had lunch with Friends Gabor Matei another Hungarian Jew. Who is a Canadian expert on trauma and addiction? George told Gabor about his struggles with depression. Gabor s George if he'd ever heard of the plant medicine I o Oscar which, until recent years was primarily used by indigenous people in Peru. But. Gabor wasn't the first to have this idea. From the nineteen sixty s to the nineteen eighties, Dutch psychiatrist John. Boston's treated over three hundred Holocaust survivors with psychedelic drugs. And Gabor had already been conducting his own studies with psychedelics and addicts, but it was a giant leap to suggest someone who had never touched the stuff especially, since it required international travel so when Gabor suggested that I try it. and. Told me what they were I want to convince you with out of his mind. You want me to go where. You will do what. He must have been really persuasive. Because soon. George was traveling to a small fishing village in Mexico called the Alaba. It's remote and only accessible by boat. You'd have to wait ashore. His first morning there the fifteen or so participants met each other. George said that he hoped to meet his father and give an explanation for why he disappeared. The ceremony was that night in the jungle. In his hallucination George saw soldiers in uniform. But while it seemed like the right time and place there was no sign of his father. Also, he experienced the really unpleasant side effects of Iowa Ska. Throw up. And unique from all openings. And it goes on for laugh. And it's dark. And you have visions, and some of those are scary. So that's when I decided. If I can just get out of this once on number touch stuff. The next day. He told the Shaman. He was done. But, that night was day of the dead. The Shaman told him that the curtain between the spirit world. Our world would be thinner so chances of meeting. His father would be better. So George gave it another go. Soon after the ceremony started, he saw skeleton in the snow. He knew it was his father. And Him. Why didn't you not say goodbye when you left? And, he said in perfect English. which was surprising to border I think. That He laughed because he thought very early. And he thought he was a clever guy. And, he can get out of it and he'll be back the same night, so. Why wake you up. Simple explanation and fitted. and. Soon after slowly my. Depression. Lifted. Never came. But there was another confrontation that George needed to have like many survivors George had a lot of unresolved anger toward a God. That couldn't or wouldn't prevent the Holocaust. Sacred Alex gave him a vehicle to have it out with God. I met with. Cookie that. And he said. That, he was lonely. Surprise. And then he has the. Why did you turn away from me? And I gave it to. You are. Asking me. What about seventeen other members who Miami? Asking them to. It was harsh. And he listen. And if they had. You don't understand. The greatest gifts I gave to humanity is free will. So. Along comes Hitler. What am I supposed to do? going. down. You can't have it both ways. That's an explanation I probably heard before. But it didn't register. Through the start. After, practically a lifetime of disconnection from Judaism George joined Torah Study, group and then. Eventually, a synagogue. Because of my experiences both Judaism and. With psychedelics. I'm much better father. I'm. Much better grandfather. Friend. And I'm better to my chef. It has to be said that this stuff isn't recommended for everyone. Both Second George would tell you that if you're thinking of trying it, you should be in good mental health and doing so with a guide as they both did is the best possible way. George has now taken the on as his life's work. He considers it medicine, the healed childhood trauma and he just wants others to benefit as he did. He's putting most of his fortune into funding research on using psychedelics to treat addicts and trauma survivors. Meanwhile Zach wants to be the world's first rabbinic PSYCHEDELIC guide. and. We'll be certified next year by the California Institute for Integral Studies an Alternative University San Francisco. Just one or two of these experiences can deeply affect the user making her feel much more connected to the Divine Zach believes. He wants to be leading the way and making it a thing, and I don't mean like you know you go into a synagogue. You Take A. And take a tap of LSD but actually creating an environment where people can have safe and supported experiences in kind of that clinical model, or you've got trained guides. You've had preparation work. You've done a little bit of Jewish learning about these experiences. This mystical type experiences from our tradition. You. Have the moment the couple hours on the couch. And then you integrate into community of people who have gone through similar experiences I think that we have the opportunity to rekindle the mystical core of our tradition. This after all was. Ramdas is dream. I suggested they set up an agency similar to the FAA the Federal Aviation Agency. and. That the Cali Agency the internal flight agency or if. Agency. And that the agency licensed people over sixteen years of age. who could successfully demonstrate that they could indeed take off and land safely. And that in addition, the if agency would provide a ground control centers. That you could call into if you needed help if you got lost in the clouds. And furthermore it would provide maps and charts for special journeys. You might like to take him. So we'll synagogue soon become among other things, ground control centers for people who want to go on daring spiritual journeys. It's hard to imagine, isn't it? But remember it wasn't so long ago. That something is mainstream today as a woman, rabbi or Jewish Meditation was seen as groundbreaking to. What if George, Silo and Zach. Comets are new visionaries who rather than being here now are foreseeing our future. That piece was written and produced by Alex Wall and edited by Noah Levinson for more of Alex's work. Good her website Alex. that's Alex with an I. A. L. I. X. Hyphen Wall Dot Com. Mazal Todd. Stephanie of muscle top this week. I have a bittersweet miles. Let's have to Paul West. WHO RUNS OUR STUDIOS? Where we recorded our podcast and we're basically every radio show you like, and every guess you like has recorded at some point because of covid nineteen. He's been forced to close Argo studios permanently, and so we are losing our podcast home, but we are keeping power west. WHO's been helping us with a bunch of projects and he is available to help you to. You can email him at Paul at Argo Studios Dot. com that's a are not studios DOT COM. We love you. Paul. Lee Albany Muscle tops. I have to. I have to exciting birthdays happening one week apart. The first are great. Producer Sarah Friedman ater. Happy Birthday, Sarah Sarah A. Eight. Sorry. She's dancing my second muscle tolls and other great birthday happening on July Fourth America. Let this immigrant again. Tell you that, even though you're hurting right now I believe you will always continue your commitment to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Baby Love you and I'm proud of you. UNORTHODOX brought to you by Tablet magazine on the web at talent MAG, DOT com. Go read it. Go read it. Are you reading it? Go go read it. Send us. YOUR THOUGHTS UNORTHODOX, a tablet, dot, com, or call us at. Leave us your thoughts. Nine, one, four, five, seven, zero, four, eight, six nine. Try to keep them under ninety seconds, or so subscribe to our newsletter bit dot, l. Y. 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LSD Mel Gibson Israel George Silo Jesse John Stephanie Stephanie Zach Alex Walkin Amsterdam Depression A. Baby Hitler Anne Frank House Harvard Timothy Leary Mel Gibson Contretemps editor Crispin Glover John Cusak cancer writer
Free Your Palate: Ep. 155

Unorthodox

53:13 min | 1 year ago

Free Your Palate: Ep. 155

"Those of you who don't like hearing profanity might wanna leave the room or choose a different podcast. We hope you don't though we hope you stick with us. This has been your obscenity warning. This is on orthodox the world's leading to it podcast. I'm your host Mark Oppenheimer joined this week by nobody. We actually weren't going to do an episode this week because we have a lot going on with the live show Wednesday night, which has happened already. By the time. You're hearing this and with the Halloween episode next week. So we were just going to let this slide and not give you anything Thursday morning. But then we realized we had a couple fabulous interviews in the can already one with Alex wall whose article for a Jewish weekly newspaper in the San Francisco Bay area looks as if it's going to get a lifelong inmate sprung from prison in recognition of the great work that he's done starting college degree programs on the inside. So we're interviewing Alex wall. Who wrote the article that brought this Jewish inmate to governor Jerry Brown's attention. And then we have this other interview with David Zilder who is the Canadian Jew who was head of fermentation at Noma the internationally famous restaurant in copen. Hey. So we didn't want those two interviews to moulder for too long. We thought if we don't get them out this week. It'll be another month before you hear them. And really it's better to get them out right now. So we thought okay, we'll do an episode. But there was no way that and Stephanie, and I were all going to get into the studio in time to do some news of the Jews and do our our our banter. So I said, you know, what guys let me handle this. Because actually for some time I've been wanting to talk to the listeners I founded this podcast about three and a half years ago. It was it was my idea. And I wanted to take a little founders prerogative to explain where I think we are as a podcast, and I'll try to be brief and this is from the heart. I'm sitting here in my basement. It's eleven ten at night on Tuesday evening. The live show is less than twenty four hours away. I should get to bed. But, but I'm just going to be I'm going to be real with everyone in say a few things first of all I don't have to tell you again, especially if you're a long-time listener how much this community means to me. It's grown from a few thousand fans three and a half years ago to tens of thousands of fans, and yet it still feels incredibly intimate and warm, and I could never stop doing this podcast, and I should say that the gentile listeners are as meaningful as the Jewish listeners, the intermarried listeners, the people who say I listened because my friends are Jewish and I want to understand them better or the people who say, you know, I'm elapsed Muslim. But I think you guys are just fun. Every quirky eccentric weird. Unexpected member of the J crew is as meaningful as the predictably Jewish urbanites who listens. And and in a world that is increasingly balkanized where liberals hang out with liberals and people don't tend to talk to conservatives unless they are themselves conservative and people of different cultures and subcultures tend to segregate themselves this is actually in its way kind of diverse. Like, I don't know what percentage of our listeners consider themselves Zionists in which. Anti-zionist? I knew we have a lot of both. I know we have a lot of Sparty and Persian listeners as well. As African Ozzy listeners, I know that we're big in South Africa and Australia, which is kind of cool. So this community provides me just a lot of a lot of Iraqi within this kind of what might seem on the outside to be a small world of people who want a Jewish podcast, but I wanted to kind of bring everyone up to date if you listened a number of years ago when we started this show is pretty predictably three parts. It was newsworthy Jews Jew of the week gentile the week. And that was it if you'll remember there weren't even mazal tops at the beginning. There were prayers. We offered prayers for the world for the first three or four episodes. And then I think we realized okay, that's a little hokey and lame. And so we switched to mazal tops, and that's been cooler, but we didn't have any listener mail to beginning. And there was just a lot of stuff we didn't have and it was very predictable. And if you look at it now where we will get out of the studio and do pieces on a teenage convert in Georgia or on a chicken farm in California or. Or at another farm in North Dakota, or that shebab dinner that the none was invited to in in Wisconsin or Michigan. Where's that sister? From you know, we've gotten out of the studio a lot. And now, we are trying to be, and I hope succeeding in being less predictable podcast and one that is less based in a specific small studio in the flatiron district of Manhattan, and that's not because we are ashamed of being three northeastern oschkenat's e Jews talking in a small northeastern space. We're not that's who we are the podcast is the three of us. And it always was it was always meant to be about the takes that the three of us had as people who are actually in some ways fairly Representative of the spectrum of American jewelry, which is predominantly urban and is predominantly oschkenat's, Ian is predominantly educated. But within that, you know, there are people who are more tied to Israel and last people who are more Zionist and less, and so we were presenting a particular group of three people in their opinions. That is something we will always be. But we also wanted to say like, hey, let's go meet our listeners where they are. And our listeners are not just in New York L A, Miami, Chicago, our listeners are actually in all fifty states and a lot of countries. And I don't think we're ever going to be the international Jewish podcast. I don't think we wanna be as grateful as we are to have international listenership, but I think we can be the podcast for American jewelry. I think we already are. But we can be doing a better job of it. I think that we want to go see what all of you see in Iowa and Louisiana and New Mexico. I think we wanna see the suburban and the rural and the urban, and I think that that means getting out of the studio, I think we want to see the Haredi the conservative reform the Reconstructionist the renewal the secular humanist Jewish the completely secular and unaffiliated. It means getting out of the studio. So we've been doing more of that. And you've been helping with your incredibly generous donations in our funds drives. And and our advertise. Have been helping and foundations have been helping. And I think we're getting there. I think we're getting to a place where we are going to be a podcast that if you listen for you know, any slice of four or five episodes for four or five hours. You will get a sense of where American Jews and the people who are interested in them are thinking what they're thinking about where they are intellectually where they are emotionally at a given point in time. And that's what we're trying to be for all of you. And I think we're getting there and your feedback has been incredible your letters have been incredible. But at the end of the day Leon Stephanie and I follow our guts. And and we do it. In whom we hire. That's how we end up with Sophia and Noah and Josh and Shira, and we do it in what we choose to talk about. And we do it in where we go. And I hope that as time goes on we go more and more to you. So this week are first piece it was taped here in New York. But it's about. Something that's going on in California. And here is our editor Sophia Steiner avoi-. This week. I sat down with Alex wall, a journalist and chef based in Oakland to talk about a story. She's been covering for the last few months that of James a white also known as Jim and more commonly known as sneaky Jewish man currently incarcerated in Vacaville, California in her profile of sneaky, Alex wrote about his long list of accomplishments over the course of his thirty eight year incarceration, but I don't want to give too much away. I wanted to make sure we got this interview out before the midterms because well, they matter and you'll see why for this story. We tell me a little bit about James. Why did you want to write a story about him? So James white is a Jewish prisoner in now sitting in Vacaville he has done around thirty eight years he is has a life without parole sentence. He was born in London. He had a cleft palate. And so he had to have numerous surgeries and his birth. Parents couldn't keep him because of the surgeries he thinks. And so he was adopted by an American Jewish couple a wealthy American Jewish couple in Connecticut, and he was mostly raised in Connecticut, except he said that his parents were very emotionally distant he feels that they adopted him because they felt they should have a child not because they really wanted to be parents, and they sent him to boarding school in Wales which just is so odd, and then they moved to Texas and he entered university. He went to Texas am for a couple of years, but then the BSN on war started and he wanted to rebel against his parents, really. So he joined up and. Signed up with the army. I see I think he served in the army and the marines. He did four tours of duty in Vietnam. He is highly highly decorated he's what he has a Distinguished Flying Cross and all these metals that I don't even know what they are. And yeah, olive is be at Phnom buddies say that he was just a a real hero. He came back from Vietnam. And as many Vietnam, vets will tell you, of course, you know, sentiment against those who were there was very high. He ended up in California fell in love with a woman named Nancy. He saw her watering her lawn, and it was love at first sight, married her. Unfortunately, Nancy had been married to twice before. And her second husband had been extremely violent with her. He hit center to the hospital numerous times when they were married and finally he molested one in the daughters one of his ex stepdaughters by the time, they were divorced. He'd been threatening them as well. And James decided he couldn't take. It anymore and he killed him. When you ask James about it. He says I had to stop the problem is I saw it. He said the police had said they could put a restraining order on him. But until he did something they couldn't really do anything about it. And you know, he had been trained to take care problems in Vietnam. So this is what he did. He was no doubt suffering from PTSD at the time. This was nineteen Ninety-one when PTSD wasn't recognized as anything it wasn't used in trials yet. It wasn't recognized as a disorder, and so he got life without parole sentence or this murder. When I first went to meet him, which happened last January, the January two thousand eighteen we actually talked about the fact that you know, he said some people reading this would probably be interested in my Vietnam record and all of that. And he said, but I think you know, he wasn't really talking like there was any chance of him getting out. But we knew that's why I was there. And and he said, I think your readers, and you know, we'll be much more interested in what I've done since I've been in prison, and I agreed with him. I said I think that's going to be the main focus of the story. I mean, he's been in so many different prisons over his thirty eight years. He started. I think in San Quentin, I make it some of the places and dates wrong. But you know, while he was there. He started a veterans group that was his he's he's a community builder. That's his first objective anywhere. He goes. And the first thing he always did was started veteran's group. Now, even this was controversial back in the day because veterans were seen as dangerous, and they thought that they could be plotting something to like, you know. Hurt people or whatever. And the veterans groups kind of followed him wherever he went, and and he kept bringing them wherever he went. And finally, he got to iron when prison which is outside of Palm Springs, and there he started the vets groups and there he started narcotics. Anonymous alcoholics anonymous groups because the prison didn't have any and he said that something like eighty or ninety percent of this fellow prisoners had drug and alcohol problems, and he didn't have either. But he could see that they were would be useful to people. So that's just the kind of person. He was I would say the thing that you know, he will be most remembered for is at the time he got to iron would there was only one college program in a prison in California. It was at San Quentin, and it was of mixed success. Apparently. And so he had read a study about how better equipped men are prisoners are when they leave if they have some kind of college education, and he went to the administration in the administration said, well, it's a lot of paperwork, and you know, it's a big job. And I don't know. And and he base. Convinced them that this is what they need to do. And he found a warden who would be kind of his sponsor and the two of them just work the phones, and and did all the paperwork, and they got it started. And his program has been so successful that fifteen hundred men in Ironwood have gotten degrees through that program. Now, there's a prison every there's a college program in every prison in the state and California, I believe they're thirty four prisons and every single one as a college program now, and it's largely based on his the success of his when you started talking was it with him. Did he think that he did he still think that he would be there that he would die there? Oh, absolutely. So when did that change? Well, I went into interview him in January wrote the story it came out in late March. And you know, I have to say for me. I put a lot of work into the story, obviously. And I felt like it just kind of landed. And you know, I got a few comments on Facebook. But no one really noticed it. I felt very, you know, but I did hear from Jim he was thrilled. And I only spoke to one former prisoner who had been held by him. But the thing he said was so moving that I still like I still it brings me to tears every time. And he said something like, you know, he taught me about community in prison, and you know, imprison it's every man for himself. And you're always thinking so selfishly, and you don't think about everyone else. And he said to me, you know, if you're going to get out, and you're going to be a functioning member of society, you need to start thinking about community in helping people today that starts now not when you get out, and, you know, this is the kind of mentorship. He was giving people in prison. So anyway, my story came out I heard nothing until I would say late may there's a man named Shad and Shad is. Is a guy who also a fellow Vietnam vet who met sneaky in prison in very early on Shad has never been in prison. But he does a lot of speaking in prisons, and he started it's called the national veterans foundation in LA. And it basically is a nonprofit that helps vets many of them who have been in prison just adjust to life and whatever benefits they need. And he helps a lot of homeless vets and just administers to any vet that is in trouble and needs him, and he is originally from Birmingham, Alabama. So he has this thick, you know, southern accent. And on never forget that day. He called me and said are you sitting down, and I said, I can be and he said sneaky just called me and an investigator from governor Jerry Brown's office just left the prison. He spent three hours with him. And he's going to call you to tell you all about it. But just stay by your phone. And so I stayed by my phone sneaky called a little bit later and told me that you know, it was a Thursday. You will normally only get visitors on the weekends. This guy showed up and asked to see him, and they spent over three hours together he tape recorded his talk he wanted to. He asked him a lot of the same questions. I did wanted to hear his whole story when he first walked in. He said I'm from governor Brown's office, I'm here because me an all the senior staff. Read the article about you in the Jewish newspaper. I do when I was writing the story. I didn't think there was a hope of him getting out. You know, I was writing a story about an interesting person. It wasn't a cause for me. It wasn't trying to free him. Even though when I heard a story, obviously, I was moved by it and and deserve that he believed that he deserved to be freed. But after that happened. It was like oh my God. Like, I, you know, I think as a journalist you you like to think that your work can have an effect. But you most of the time feel like beyond may making people happy that you write about them, you I've never experienced anything remotely like this. My mom was saved by gentile woman from the holocaust in Poland. And you know, when you go up with that in your family, you think your whole life. You think what could I do that could possibly compare with what that woman did if not for her I wouldn't be here? And so to think that I could have even this much of act on someone's life. I feel like in some way, I'm comically repaying the woman who saved my mother, but I you know, it's not. I I don't want to put myself anywhere near that circumstance of saving life by taking a child into my home. Unfortunately, I'm not doing that right now with I feel like there's so many people in our country who could use that right now. And I'm not doing that. But I feel like to have this affect on one person's life. You know, the Tomo does say you save one life you save the world. It's like saving the world than I. It's huge. Yeah. So that was in may the next thing we heard was that governor Brown did not want the releasing someone with a life without parole sentences a really big deal. He didn't want it all on him in case sneaky goes out and does something again. And so he decided to send it to the parole board to to have them vote on it. So we next her that the hearing was going to be held on August twenty first, you know, we got there. We did our thing there were six I think six of us who had been in prison who all testified to how much he helped them. And you know, the things I heard that day. Everybody was in tears. You know, these men were saying if not for sneaky, I don't know where I would be, you know, one of them said I'm making a six figure salary and I'm a good husband because of him. And you know, I heard from several of them about how their own fathers told them they were worthless and never going to amount to anything. And here comes this man in prison. Telling them. No you can succeed. One of them has six associate's degrees because we have time we still had to finish up the sentence, and he got one, and then he just kept going, and then they would often tutor each other. You know, the ones who would finish tutor the others. And it just built this whole ecosystem of of educated people in prison, and you know, to hear these stories was too so incredible. There were also some of his Vietnam vet buddies one of them flew in from Florida to testify. I testified and said, you know, when I started I said that I have all the people here. I've known him the least amount of time. And now, I felt that this was caused that I had no choice, but to join, you know, I'm not a journalist in this anymore. Like, I'm I'm I believe so strongly that he deserves to be freed. We testified starting at ten thirty in the morning by three clock that day. We heard that they had voted unanimously to approve approve his pardon. And then we heard that it has to go to the state supreme court. So that's where we are. Right now. We know that it's not on the docket. The supreme court has next meeting November seventh, and we know it's not on the docket that day. So, you know, it's just it's just this cruel waving game. I mean, it's like the warden of his prison has already talked to him about the fact that he's leaving his fellow prisoners are all saying, hey, you're you're getting out like it's a known thing that he's leaving pretty much. And from what we understand the supreme court since the governor and the parole board have already set this in motion. And it said, yes, it's pretty much formality. They're going to say, yes. But they're still making him, wait. And it's like, you know, the man is like sleet seventies. How much time, you know? It just seems cruel at this point. Yeah. And so so it starts up on November seven. We'll they meet every day. No. They only meet sometimes it's very hard to decipher the websites complicated. And I had some, you know, one of his other people kind of explaining to me what I don't know. We we like to think it could be later in November. Yeah. I know that the governor pardons a ton of people around Christmas, we were hoping it wouldn't be that late and also Brown is leaving office. I don't know if he leaves like if it's January twentieth like the president. But I could be sooner. I don't know. And I think a lot of these stories are so important because you know, one of the biggest operations of prisons is to put people out of sight. You know, they're in locations where you don't see them. Right. Don't hear from these people. They're cut off from the world. And it's I mean, it's it's it's so wonderful that you brought this story out. But it's also. Terrifying. Because of how chance it was, you know, and how how many other sneak? He's are there and have no how many other. You know? And there's so many things about him that make him. More like easier to sit with you know. That you know, you wonder what if you had done something like a little different that we didn't agree with would he still be worthy of being read out? You know, it brings up all these other questions to me, at least in criminal Justice that makes it really really interesting. But also, you know, part of a a a wider conversation that we are. I think starting to have in this country. Are you going to continue to report on this or no because you're you feel your two person? No, I I want to. I mean, I would love to do a series on juice in prison. I totally would. And I know they're plenty of them in the area that I could be writing about. I am very aware that if James white were African American probably this would not be happening. I feel like it's important to acknowledge that and yet. You know, I'm only doing this story because he's Jewish. Like several people said to me, why did you do the story? It's like they forget, he's Jewish and to be honest. He doesn't even read very Jewish because he did wear a key PA for as little time in Ironwood. Which is another interesting piece. Are you interested in Jews in prison because of? That's where you weren't you work for a Jewish newspaper. Or is there something about it to you specifically? That's interesting. Well, both you know. Yes, I've always written for Jewish newspapers. Because I find Jewish life really interesting. And be there aren't so many Jews in prison. I mean, there are some highly publicized. You know, Bernie Madoff is when I can think of, but in general, you know, I remember interviewing when the rabbis who runs olive, which is this prisoner. It's like a prisoner's advocacy organization within the Lubavitch movement. And he even said, you don't find many Jews in prison for murder, usually when Jews are in prison. It's for a more white collar crime. I do feel, you know, look, I don't want to sit here and say we do better than everyone else. That's not what this is about. But you know, I look what is evident to me is that so many people who end up in prison do so because they didn't start with a the privilege that so many of us have to begin with. They started in really screwed up families and homes and poverty. And that's what causes people to commit crimes in the first place. So it's just the system where of course, it's harder for those people to get ahead. Of course, they're more likely to end up in prison. And that's why Jews who are, you know, more upwardly mobile and privileged don't end up in prison as much both. Thank you so much for coming on to talk. Thank you for your interest. I I'm obviously thrilled to talk about it. Really one of the most exciting things. It's over happen to me. Like, I said, I I love how unpredictable unpredictable life can be. And that, you know last year at this time I had never heard of James white and this year. My this is become the year of sneaky for me. You know, we're almost at the end of this year. If he gets out, you know, like, I wrote the story in January. I I heard about them in like November last year got to prison by January wrote the story, and you know, by the end of this year, hopefully, he'll be freed and really will become the earth sneaky for me. That was Alex wall, contributing editor at J, the Jewish news of northern California. And hopefully, we'll be getting used some updates in the weeks to come and potentially even hearing from sneaky himself. Much. Thanks to our editors voice for talking with Alex wall at our offices in New York City. Toronto native David silver is a chef and photographer is the author of the Noma guide to fermentation, including Koji Caputo's show us missiles, vinegars Garam's lactoferrin's and black fruits and vegetables. He's cooked all across North America. But he's now at Noma the famous restaurant open Hagan were been since two thousand fourteen he's been the director of its fermentation labs two thousand sixteen and in October two thousand eighteen he sat down with my co hosts, Stephanie Budnick and Liel liebowitz at the tablet offices. Here's that interview. I am very excited that we're here with David silver. He is from the award winning restaurant. Noma in Copenhagen is the director of the fermentation lab there, and is a co author with Rene Ren's EFI of a new book called the Noma guy to fermentation. Hi, david. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. I think for this interview. We should use your full name. Yes. We tell us what it is. I won the most Jewish name on the tour bus when I did birthright, which was funny. David Higham Jacobs over so David. I'm yuck of trials Zuber. Nice to boy like you get from get from Toronto to the world famous temple of haute cuisine. Noma you work your ass off. And then hope that pays off. I've been cooking for fifteen years now. So it's almost half my life and. Yeah. I've I'm Canadian at work through you. Save almost apologetically. No. I'm sorry. I'd worked my way through some candidates best restaurants and at my last post. I was the sous-chef of Canada's best restaurant, and we'd won those awards, and that was that was an amazing team and then mazing time in my life. But I still wanted more and what restaurant is that? It was called Hawksworth restaurant in Vancouver. As the wanted more. And I was kind of being offered positions to open my own restaurant or become a shift cuisine someone, and I still felt I hadn't learned enough. So resumes to a few very good restaurants around the world Nomo's one of them. And they got back that's kind of a weird position. Because in our age of, you know, chef celebrity you would think that the temptation would be to go and say like, oh, well, you know, I'm one of those guys I wanna play and yet you perhaps in a very Canadian fashion. Like, no, I still have a lot to learn did you ever consider just making the move. Or was it always clear to you that you wanted? Another step on the ladder of apprenticeship the temptation is there you see a lot of people kind of like tap out of the game. Young to start their own thing. And you also see them struggle. So it's a bit of a trade off. I don't mean to say that you can feed your ego because you can feed your ego by working for someone. Great as well. But yeah, the temptation to kind of venture out on your own and spread your wings, and and become a fledgling often balance with the struggles of just being being strapped for cash and having no money and having no support. And and like, you know, slaving in the restaurant day in day out yourself and watching your vision kind of get swallowed by just running restaurant. It's an extremely cutthroat business, and I knew at the age of twenty seven or twenty eight when I when I moved to Copenhagen that there was a lot more for me to learn so slow and steady wins the race as they say. And so you walk in to to Noma internationally celebrated often crowned best of the galaxy. Give us a rundown by by numbers of what that operation looks like how many kitchens how many chefs how many well today if would walk into that. It's a gorgeous building. It's built into this old decommissioned once derelict munitions bunker, that's built into an old Viking fortification on a lake and it's this long grey concrete building there's greenhouses in front, and then these gorgeous new kind of village like little huts of architecture that for the actual restaurant all connected by classrooms inside. There. You have a hundred employees probably about sixty chefs half of which are interns, picking everything from rose petals to cleaning ends to shelling pumpkin seeds to making tofu too. Defending ducks and scrubbing open their skulls. I mean, it's everything it is. It is a very special restaurant that goes to extreme lengths to make food to to really push food to the limit. So to certain points, you're working there. And then you take over as director of from tation you basically build a fermentation lab. What what does that even look like well at first glance kind of it doesn't really look like kitchen, the lab is sits behind basically four panes of glass to double sliding doors, and that's kind of my chalkboard. So it definitely looks like a mad scientist laboratories, you see this white chalk marker with diagrams of you know, the Krebs cycle or what yeast does when it ferments sugar into ethanol. And then inside there. There's kind of the central workbench where we actually I mean, it's a kitchen we do cook food. You'd be surprised sometimes I know and on on one half of this room. We have some very standard equipment and oven stove dishwasher sink and the other half looks like kind of breaking bed, you know, a rotary evaporator with tubes of pinker green antifreeze running through the kitchen. An ultrasonic homogenize earned of a wall that consists of something called a super critical fluid extractor that goes eight miles an hour now at what point TV come acquainted with the super critical food extract the naming a super critical fluid extractor, it's what the perfume industry uses to make smells at what point. Do you? Do you acquaint yourself with that? Because most chefs growing up that's not part of the cabinet. You've got like a PHD in in these arts et. What point do you start learning about the machinery, and how do you go about doing that? I've got a little personal hashtag called stay curious. And that's my motto in life. At noma. I mean, I yes, I do work in something called the fermentation lab. But it's other nickname is the science bunker, and while we are tasked with primarily using science to peer into the realm of fermentation and find new techniques new possibilities within that realm. We're not just relegated to that. So we also just deal with food science and say, okay. Well, how can we change states of matter? What can we do to coax flavors, and it is always in the pursuit of flavor? Maybe a bit of a departure from the molecular gastronomy of the early two thousands. But you know, we use we employ science maybe more so than L Bouli or ours ever did to search for flavors not just kind of make hattricks not that I'm denigrating those restaurants for for the past they forged. But it's always in the pursuit of flavor. So something like a super critical fluid extractor, which is kind of. Willie Wonka esque contraption connections of you know, one millimeter tubes from one machine to another with a computer screen and three giant tanks of carbon dioxide feeding into it. I started reading up on that technology because at some point the the ferments that I was bringing to the test kitchen weren't different enough that it was getting them excited. You can make every variety of me so on earth, but at some point from a functional standpoint they're all going to serve the same purpose in kitchen like Noma. So I had to look elsewhere. To keep myself interested in my own job and Tepe impressing Renee in the kitchen with new kind of cool toys if you wanna make peace. Oh, yeah. The the P Meesom. Yep. P means you have to have to really step up the game. Was it was there an element of you know, what do I do for an encore? Like, how do I today was tell us some of the greatest hits the greatest hits. Yeah. Some of the weirdest shit that you can talk. Oh my God. I can't believe natural plate. We'll right now. There's I mean the mold pancake of last season. So this. Creativity. Enormous extremely capricious extremely organic. I was tasked with Artie for the vegetables season to explore moldy foods. We didn't really know what that meant. I don't know at first I was trying to grow mould on kind of Dryden, fruits and vegetables, kind of worked wasn't that delicious? And at some point someone's like, oh, maybe we could just do like for roll up and grow the mold on that tried. It didn't really work. And then we're like, okay. Well, is there something here? What else? What can we grow this mold on in his sheet where it would work? I'm like, oh, Berlin. You do the D? Basically you end up with this one millimeter thick sheet of barley almost as if it was like field. Oh, you inoculate it with the same old that all of Japan uses to make suck and Meese. Oh, and rice wine. And then you have this kind of fuzzy velvety white carpet that tastes of honeysuckle and and kind of like sweet apricot, but on your tongue feels like, you know, licking swayed bag. That was the rapper for an ice cream sandwich at the end of the meal for the vegetables, which we run from June until September. So that was a fun one. That's definitely a weird one for right now, I would say that the extract of forest floor is he's my most favorite thing. So we're engaging season right now game in four season. And I literally have the forgers go into clearings in the forest look around. And this bring me back, you know, a kilo of what of the same proportions of the forest around. So okay, there was this much tree. There's this much like moss this earth. They bring it back grinded up. I put it through the super critical fluid extra when you dispatched him, do you? Do you like bring me a kilo forest floor? You have died don't use like Moses voice. You should I send the insurance. But that one is quite cool because it really it tastes like lying down. In a clearing. I love that too. So this something that's really interesting about this book is, and it's you know, it's a cookbook, but is also a guidebook to understanding for mutation. How you guys use it in this very very very high high-powered way. But also how people can bring it into their home seven computers. Can you give us like your base explanation? Fermentation the way sort of the book describes it. Yeah. For mention would be the transformation of one food into another via a microbe that can be bacteria that could be yeast that could be a fungus and sure that definition works from Titian also works equally well for wrought. You could have your compost heap being transformed into it's not another food. But it's still transformed by way of microbes. But the big distinction is a human wanted to happen. So it was fermentation. You can definitely say, okay. I employed this micro. I chose what got to live in here. And then my food was transformed juice became alcohol, or you know, rice became sweet porridge used micro. X y and z to do that. I am for mentor. And this is a good the amazing thing about this. I mean, there's so many amazing things about this book. And this book is really going to get me in trouble in my married life because now part of my already ridiculous. Kitchen is going to smell very different. Yeah. With so much of what's going on in in cooking. She home cooking right now being geared towards saving time. Like, here's instant potted could make something not in three hours. But in twenty five minutes your book is the exact opposite. I mean every recipe almost like do this do this weight seventeen days. Yeah. And then. There has to also be like a kind of philosophical disposition right for for someone who deals with. From addition patients has to be a big part of the game is how do you deal with with this waiting so long for results, this culture of like incessant newness, or or this this this need for speed that we experienced today? It's tough to say where it comes from like an ever exhilarated to an ever exceleron human culture where people are more connected. Never. But I find it funny. When people say, oh, I don't have six weeks. But everyone has six weeks. It's not like six weeks isn't going to. You know? So it is kind of this like mental flip of the switch that goes very much against the grain of the modern era where you have to invest yourself in something and care for it and watch a transfer the actual work of making fermented foods is just work. It's quite menial labor. It's a bit of shopping. It's a bit of mixing. It's okay. Something out put it together, pack it away. And then just let it sit. Onstage for for this book tour that I'm on right now. The reason why many orca now, you know, I make fermented blueberries before people's eyes, and it takes about one minute to mix blueberries what's holding put into a Mason jar. But then the joke is that. Well, actually, watching it come to fruition is about as fun as watching paint dry. Right. But that's not the fun part from Titian, the fun part from intention is the payoff when it is finished when you taste it. And you say, oh, I did this. I had some say in why this is the way it is. Now, I know the first time I made kimchi and tried it, you know, five days in a week in two weeks and was amazing to see. Fine. How does this thing square with the food? You grew up with what did you eat? I mean, what if you grandmother? Comfort food for you. As a child, it's a mix of things. So my mother is from the Caribbean. My father is a national Jew who was born in Montreal like right after the war after my grandparents fleet Poland. And they met my mom converted in me. And my sister were raised Jewish a Jewish household. But it's not like she converted forgot how to Caribbean. So. Kogel only. No. But my my grandmother. So I grew up in Toronto, but my ground there's saving in Montreal taught, my mom a lot of fun tricks. And so my mom is a pretty fierce repertoire of, you know, some some really good polish dishes from developed a fish, two months of all soup, and and beyond. Yes. So it is this weird mix. I very much remember eating my grandmother's multiple super on the holidays. And also my mom's plow or condition bakes very very island dishes if you will and that's much to two cultures. Colliding was there for minted food in my house in so far as there's from entered food in everyone's house. It's not like my mother had little projects going on under Neath. A cubs will say those that she did have a cupboard full of her favorite hot sauces. Most of which were from ended. Not that you would realize them to be at such a young age a kid back, then, but you already geared towards thinking about food is this kind of cross cultural bound raking thing up salute. Absolutely. And growing up in Toronto. It's extremely multi-cultural. And I mean, my crew of best friends that I grew up with from elementary school all the way through high school. It was a complete mix. I mean, it was me a black Jew. One of my friends was Romanian Jew than I had Paul from Taiwan, and then just in from South Asia. So and you would go to each other's houses. And you just eat each, other's foods and people's moms cooker all four of us. And you just grew up thinking that every culture was culture. And it's rich and informative. You grew up in this very diverse sunny environment. Now, when you tell people that you're from Toronto that you're Jewish that. You're also I Rachel do people. Just bring up Drake all the time. Knowing the entire world know who brings it up more than anyone Rene Rene reds, my boss. Yeah. He introduces meetings. Like, hi, this is David silver. We're going to make him the second most famous black drew from Toronto. That's his line amazing. So I was thinking like Jewish podcasters who are gonna bring it up while you just did. So I mean really kit. Why not go for the first? Maybe I can talk more interesting. I always ask people from Toronto because you're in the same. You know, he's your two younger people subway together really would finished aggressee and like. The whole cast would be going back uptown to wherever they live the whole cast of the guys eat pecan subway, it's Toronto. I mean driven around in limos fourteen year old kids can even afford like a production van to drive around. It was kind of funny that flattens the experience in some way. When people like, oh, you oh, you must know Drake. But you actually like did know Drake. The. I didn't know that. You would you would see like, oh, there's there's wheels. I was thinking from Burger King. I don't know. And all the other test. Nobody's just. Yeah. Let's just Toronto. It's not too. Big city is not that big city. So to get back to Noma for second as much as it is loved by by many, especially the fortunate ones who've had the pleasure of tasting. There's also I think a counter narrative to it of people saying come on now. I mean forced floor Beck tear. That's awesome. But but why not cook, you know, real food? What's a whole deal with a whole showcasing science just like trickery wizardry time. You got back to elementary stuff. Is that kind of arguments? Silly to you is just a limit limited in its imagination or not you get this kind of knowing says that when they eat it. No, that's that's the thing. Once once your butts in that seat, and the food starts you don't it's not it's not it's not a. I mean, it's a production. But it's not a show like you sit there, and you taste things for what they are. And that's that's always been the way that nomads approached food. You know, you could definitely call Rene and otr he has this like fierce vision that needs to be manifested in the world. And he has one hundred people working for them to to make that a reality. But things aren't disguised. You know? It's Noma is is incredibly raw in. How it tries to translate. Translate that vision through food, and it's not like you're eating things. And being like, oh, well, what is the why do they have a science lab because once you're sitting in that seat things just taste incredibly delicious. But also as incredibly of what they are. So in the new book, you you were commend you actually have the kind of recipe and how to build a mini from tation lab at home. How does one go about doing that? And how will it change my home? Cooking you go down to Home Depot. Buy yourself a plug and play thermostat heating blanket, a styrofoam, cooler and the humidifier, and you go home and you start growing mold in your house. It's really easy. It really is. I give you the step by steps. You know, there's an illustrative, you know. And how will it change my routine, you'll have a new hobby? You'll have something that you'll really want to get into like you'll check up on it. Every morning you'll you'll you'll go through the motions and you'll look videos on YouTube. What other people are doing and you'll get caught up in it and you'll start cooking with it. And it's the joy of making your own food. So one question before we let you go. What traditional Jewish food would you like to give the no treatment? Deconstructed filter, fish essence fermented, fish aspic. Let ca sour cream and apple sauce is just like you could you could take you could that could go next level would love that how make black applesauce. This is a recipe for black apples kind of an analog to black garlic and the book that would be great ferment the potatoes before you great them. And then you know, it almost be like the sour cream was in the Leka. I love because there's a comfort food for you. Do you make them? I do make them for breakfast on the weekends in Copenhagen making Lakas living the dream living the dream Hanukkah twenty eighteen the all know what we should be doing. David's over. Thank you so much. The book is the Noma guide to fermentation. It is awesome. And good luck with the rest of your book tour. Thank you. Thank you so much. That was fermentation maestro. David Silber, talking with my tablet, colleagues liebowitz and Stephanie. But Nick, that's an interview I very much wish I could have been there for. Hey, thanks J crew for joining us for this wonderful episode. I'm going to wrap up by reading one letter and then offering in place of the mazal tov just some big thank yous. But here's a letter. We got that that really begs to be read at almost it's full length. Dear Stephanie markedly Al this is more or less, a thank you. I'm sure you get many emails like this. But I wanted to express my gratitude for unorthodox this summer, I've started to try to get in touch with Jewish side, which I affectionately dubbed a very Jewish summer. I grew up Muslim and a little Christian to an extent, my Jewish lineage comes from my mother's side. And I've never really registered my Jewish heritage until my last year of high school like sure I went over to my uncle's for Passover and Hanukkah. He had converted to modern orthodox a little before. I was born. He and my mother had grown up Christian. And sure I was gifted to starve David necklace ones. But no one ever confirmed that we were Jewish in any way until high school when one of my older cousins did in fact, confirm everything I feel like I should. Figured it out before then but see I'm also half Indian. And we celebrate a lot of hint holidays without actually being Hindu. So doing stuff like celebrating different religious holidays wasn't something that I ever questioned. I never really ventured to learn anything until now because in part I felt like I had no right to consider anything Jewish because not growing up Jewish and it felt like an incredible betrayal to claim my Jewish heritage. When I don't feel the weight of tragedies like the holocaust because while I know what it feels like to bear, the weights of ugly destructive hate, I've never known it on such a massive level. But but look, obviously, I'm slowly starting to learn and turning my very Jewish summer into a very Jewish autumn. And winter a shout out here to my Jewish friends who encouraged me I found a congregation that I really love. And I think I'm gonna start attending Chabad and talking to the rabbi come next year. Once I get my life. A little more sorted conversion is currently not on the table for me. But I do think I want to start leading Jewish life. If that makes any sense at all what I mean about leading Jewish life is. Well, I think what I mean is the warmth Mark Stephanie, Leo when I. I hear you talking about Jewish anything. Whether it's discussing certain holidays or your own lives or just those conversations you have with your guests. There's always so much warmth and love in your voices. And I think I need a little bit of that warmth a little bit of that sense of belonging. But wherever I end up eventually converting or deciding it's not for me unorthodox will have a huge claim as being part of my journey because without you guys. I wouldn't know so much about Jewish life. So I'm just gonna leave y'all with some blessings. My grandmother says to me every night and rose. And honestly is there a better way to say, thanks with blessings from another God, I think not. So here goes may allow bless you with spiritual peace and health with happiness and success. And may you do well in all your endeavors Shalah peace be upon you wore Mr. guards two T W O period to then added in a postscript that that's a pseudonym he uses sometimes. And you know, what to that's fine. We know your real person, we believe in you. And you know, what I think I speak for Leon Stephanie when I say that we're happy to be here for you. And. To be here with you. Okay. So instead of mazal tops this week. I have the blessing of the whole gang of Stephanie and Leo and everyone else to offer some thank yous. Let's just take this moment to thank the unsung heroes. One of my favorite podcasts hidden brain with Dont'a. He always thinks the unsung heroes. So I'm going to thank the the two wives, husbands, sit and Lisa and Ben who lead who's us a lot to to north at ox sometimes for days of time. When we go out on the road. So so thank you. Thank you for holding down the assorted forts while we're gone. I wanna think Talbot magazine, we don't talk enough about how we are grounded in this extrordinary magazine that you can read every day at tablet, MAG dot com. Our publisher Maury land down or executive editor Wayne Hoffman editor in chief Alana Newhouse and director of business development gave Sanders these people they really support us. They keep us going to help us raise money, and they kind of let us to pretty much everything. I don't think one time has any one of them told us not to run something. Or after listening to the show told us. We shouldn't have run something. So think about that chew on that for a moment me personally. I want to thank my poker buddies. I wanna thank my dogs mini and Archie, and I don't know who all is listening out there. But every once in a while, I get a letter from an old friend who has reconnect with me on the podcast, and I want to thank all of you. And the ones who haven't reached out yet. I wanna thank you to I want to thank the interns. We've had I want to thank the Starbucks on west twenty sixth street, and I wanna thank the J crew. I want to thank all of the people who listen, faithfully who recommend us to your friend who subscribe because that helps our numbers and that brings in ads allows us to keep going, and I also want to end by thanking the letter writers. It's like it's a weird and curious thing to sit down and write a letter to a podcast, but we really do read them all and they really do give such immense. Joy, you don't even know. Thanks, guys. Unorthodox brought to you by tablet magazine on the web at tablet, MAG dot com. You can ask our newsletter by writing to unorthodox taback dot com and putting newsletter in the subject line. We often come to you live to book us or to advertise with us, Email producer, Josh cross cross cross with a K tablet, MAG dot com, and you should wear unorthodox shirts and onesies and stuff. I mean, these only if you really small and you should carry on north two bags, and you should put unorthodox coffee, cosies and mugs around your coffee. Go to bit dot L Y slash north for all of our swag. Follow us on Instagram at unorthodox podcast and on Twitter at unorthodox underscore pod. Show is produced by cross shirt. And no eleven in our editor is Sophia standard artwork is by Esther word. Please. Join our Facebook group, there's lots of fun to be had. There are social media in is Abrams. Our theme music is by Gholam online. Gholam rocks dot com and our mailbox by Steve Barton rabbinic supervision this week by rabbi Deri Gilman of United orthodox synagogues in Houston. We're coming to Houston for a live show in early November berries there. And I hope you raise lots of Jews with him. And we are nothing without Argo studios in the flat iron district alone. Friends.

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The Apology Episode: 5779 Edition: Ep. 150

Unorthodox

1:19:33 hr | 2 years ago

The Apology Episode: 5779 Edition: Ep. 150

"In the cold ne- dre service which begins Yom Kippur. We asked that all vows we make in the coming year, be declared null and void so that we have no opportunity to break them. Well, I hereby nullify any promise I will ever make that there's no swearing on this show. Consider that you're obscenity warning. This is an orthodox. The universe is leading Jewish podcast. I am your host Mark Oppenheimer joins as ever by senior writer Liel liebowitz hugs hugs amac and deputy editor. Stephanie buttoning. I'm sorry. I won't even ask her what, let's just get it out there. I'm so sorry, everything this week for Yom Kippur. It's our fourth annual apology episode. We have a beautiful moving inciteful extraordinary lineup for you this week, all about apology and atonement. You know when we first did a yum Kippur, apology episode when we were just a baby infants podcast, we had nothing, no politics for we'd nothing to bother a bad podcasts. Which we would like to apologize for we're, we're trying our best to get better, but it really took off we, I think it was our episode in some ways that really broke out that really broke out I and brought us a lot of new listeners and a lot of people sharing it with other people because I think it's not only it's not only Jews who are interested in the question of how do we become better people. All of us, ideally, are this year three segments, how car tells the story of how he goaded his brother into a fight and got him arrested and how he ultimately repaired that our relationship plus our producer, no, eleven in checks in with gentle of the week quays Stewart, the Yonkers resident who is still trying to figure out how best to apologize to the Jewish community for the way that he mocked a little custody, boys haircut in a video that went viral earlier this year, and we will talk about the year in apologies with our tablet colleague Marjorie Ingle who tracks the best and worst apologies on her website. Sorry, watch dot com. So really wonderful show one that hopefully will get you in the mood as we are here in the middle of the high. Holy days Butleigh Ellen, Stephanie in this year with a lot of public apologies. I gotta ask, how are you guys doing? What are your feelings about all of this Lille as we continue through the days of our? What are you thinking about this culture of apology in which we live? I got to tell you I'm done with apologies. I think we've hit some sort of real cultural watermark. That is just preposterous. Everyone is apologizing. Everyone is constantly demanding apologies. Everyone is constantly saying, sorry, here's the one thing that I really don't see enough of. I don't see enough people actually doing shit, you know, actually doing the work of the Shiva meaning, you know, return repentance becoming better people. You have these celebrities behaving horn Disley, right? And here's the thing if you're saying, let's take a completely hypothetical example, it's, let's say you're a comedian named MUI sweet gay who who may or may not have shown his penis to. Unwilling people, you know he did. He admitted to do it how he did do it, who did you know admittedly show his penis to an unwitting people? How easy is it for you at the very least to say, you know what? I've like ten fifteen million dollars like lying around the house. Here's some money for really, really good. 'cause or even better, you know, here's what I'm going to do in this coming year. I'm not going to plan my comeback special. I'm gonna take time and volunteer for an actual station that does the kind of work that I clearly need to do one myself. No one does the work. Everyone's just like, you need to apologize. I apologize. We do not accept your apology. It's like a circle of of stupidity, and here's the other thing like no one actually accepts the apology. So people throw their apologies into this black hole on the internet. It's all just very frustrating. So you feel like someone who like a lot of, obviously, Twenty-eight teen was in some ways the year of people I want to say MandA people behaving badly and so like do feel like there are apologies just thrown out. Out there and then like not no one's acting on them, actually not. It's an apology plus spin a year old maliciously demanding apology, empty apologizing, and no one actually falling through the offenders failing to follow through and becoming better people, and the those demanding the apology failing to falls through and actually saying, you know what? It's doing. Nobody. Actually, some of you did do good work and like, okay, well, come back. It's it's nice to have you. It's good that you recognize that you did something bad. Leo I couldn't agree more and I, I am constantly amazed by, let's take just celebrities. Although, of course, most people aren't celebrities and most apologies that are given or not given by celebrities or rich people. But I am amazed by wealthy famous people who don't make what would seem to be the fairly simple choice of just taking some time away from their money earning and doing good works. Now, the good works could be. Yeah. Like you say, you know, volunteering for some organization that needs you, right? And not to pick on Louis CK alone. Right? Because you know, there are there are worse people, in fact, I mean, right. We could be tied at Harvey Weinstein, but let's talk about Louis c. k. let's say he was stuffing envelopes for a local women's shelter just doing something with his time. And then of course, what we need from Louis CK more than time is his money. What we rich people really what. We need from them that they have is a lot of money. And maybe he had supported a women's shelter or three or five or endowed them forever. I mean, when you have tens of millions of dollars, you can do that. And if a rich person said, I really feel terrible and I'm trying to think of how to give back and I want people to know I'm worth about fifty million dollars and I'm not gonna put myself in poverty. I'm not a Saint, but I'm gonna take forty seven of the fifty million dollars and endow ten women shelters or something that's really substantial, but they don't. They never do that. Actually, I feel a little cynical, but if Louis CK was like, I'm giving a bunch of money to a bunch of great places. I'd be like, okay Louis. But how are you changing. We're giving away ninety five percent of his money, I think, yeah, it would be so unprecedented more likely, what it would be would be like a ten thousand twenty thousand dollars donation. One time like that. That is helpful. But I also think like were were a little bit disillusioned by by that and like just throwing money at a problem. I don't think we'll solve it. I think it will definitely be useful to the organizations that need it, but there's a way in which I'm much more moved by the like going to a shelter and stuffing envelopes thing going food Bank or like just, but then the problem with that is the way celebrity works now. Then there's a picture this TMZ it's a picture and it's like, did Louis just do this to get a photo op. So he appears to be on the mend, like there's so many levels of artifice and salad. There's no system geared toward accepting the apology. Yeah, which is horrendous because at that point, like why, why? Even bother with the apology to begin with quick part of the question too, I really want to linger from and on the whole thing of volunteering versus giving money. Volunteering is great, but actually it's a lot easier to volunteer for very rich people. It's actually a lot easier to say, let's say six months of hard labor at at some sort of volunteer work. That's actually a smaller ask of them than giving away their fortune. And so if what they really want to do is show atonement, if what they really want to do is show, I knew that I hurt people and now I have to suffer a little pain in return in a way that will do good, but I have to give till it hurts. It's not time. Several celebrities have have nothing but time. I mean, they're, they're getting facials most of it. They have a lot of time, but then willing to the modern day celebrity, they do nothing. Literally. You can almost never find a celebrity who has voluntarily returned to middle class status financially, that is unthinkable to them. And and so. I don't know. It's amazing to me that their PR people never. I mean, imagine if Harvey Weinstein, right? The worst of the worst in the past year, if he had said, I'm giving away all my money. I'm gonna go get a job for seventy thousand dollars a year, forty thousand or whatever. And live like that. Who's got a lie. Which job for me. Regular people though, because like regular people can't throw money at it, can't do a flashy apology. Like how do how do we mere mortals apologize. I mean, what is this? This holiday is sort of designed for to be a point at which Jews reflect. I was wondering you tell us stuff. Stay. You know. Apologize. Our senior apology correspondent Marjorie Ingles. She's a columnist at tablet magazine and co runs the blog. Sorry, watt, which analyzes apologies in the news. Welcome Marjorie. Thank you for having me podcast people. It's nice because we see you in the office, but to get you in the studio is a special treat. It's very exciting here. It's a whole new Marjorie. Do we have anything we need to apologize for? Are we good martyring? Are we going in your book? I think we're all. Okay. Avoca me. I'm looking right. Oh, yeah, you don't. You. But you know, we can disagree and still be civil to each other even though you are the devil look at that. So what's been going on in the year apologies. So one of the most recent lousy apologies that comes to mind is the Bishop who officiated at Aretha Franklin's funeral, Charles H ls. The third who groped Arianna 'Grande. Do we know what we're what? Yes, we saw that picture. Did you hear about this while your wife was going birth. I got this in right under the wire. He was for those who haven't seen it. He was putting his arm around her that we'd put your stand next to someone and put your arm around their shoulders. And then he the hand reached under her far armpit and got coupage of her of her right breast visible, coupage, visible, pause. The tips of his fingers were practically white. He was pressing so hard, and you could see from her body language that she was not delighted and watching from the bleachers Louis Farrakhan was like right on. I have a picture. I pulled up a picture. It's very disturbance gross, and he kept kind of wiggling them around where they weren't like staying still. It was like it was. There was no sense in that. No one was seeing this like he knew he was on. He's not only in big room of people. There were jillions of people watching online. Yes. Karenna I guess on the news, let me spell this out for you. Are. No. So what was wrong with the apology that the Bishop gave afterwards? Okay. So I, he actually had two things to apologize for because before she spoke before she sang at the Uniroyal he made a joke about how he saw Arianna 'Grande on the funeral menu and thought she was a new item at Taco Bell. So that's problematic. And then then the groping and he's the apology was it would never be my intention to touch any woman's breast. I don't know. I guess I put my arm around her. Maybe I crossed the border. Maybe I was too friendly familiar. But again, I apologize. I hug all the female artists and the male artists. That's what we're all about in the church. We are all about love. And then he said, I personally apologize to Oriana and her fans and the whole Hispanic community. When you're doing a program for nine hours, you try to keep it lively. You try to insert some jokes here and there, and I bet you guys can tell me everything that is wrong with that apology. You don't need to be the special apology correspondence to see everything wrong. Do you know and Grandes not Hispanic. That is true. She is a talian. But the fact that she's not actually, you know, Latina and she is Italian, does not mean that you get to insult, you know, of. Glaring error? Yeah, right. Well, I mean, the genius of it is that he offended he'd double down on the. He made it worse. He like Latino and Latinas are still offended. And now Italians and Latinos are offended because apparently he thinks through the same thing, it's like it just, I also wondered about the phrasing maybe I crossed the border it because isn't that that feels like a Taco Bell reference again. I would say Marjorie, that's that's deep apology scholarship. They're like, I don't think the three of us would have would have made taking note of that as well. But that's because of being in the euro. So this is actually a great apology on which to talk about how he failed. All five prongs of the. Sorry, watch five prong test for good apology. Yes. What are the pronouns? The Prins are you actually say, I'm sorry. I apologize which he did say. So I guess he didn't fail all of them. You have to state the thing that you did and the fact that it was like my intention and he mentioned it would never be my intention to touch any woman's breast. So that's not really stating the thing that you did, which was touch a woman's breast. He didn't acknowledge the impact of what he did, which is another thing you have to say. You have to make it clear that you know exactly why what you did was wrong. Clearly, he's not taking responsibility to not not taking ownership and there's no attempt to make things right either on a micro or macro level, my guess is that he did not personally apologize to her, which is the thing you have to do in public. Apologies is also make sure that you've done it. You know you've done your shoe and privately as before you go out there and started a person you've actually heard. Yes. Before you go out in public and star punt officiating about how you've been missing persons breast you Cup? Correct. In public, correct? Yeah. So that sounds so sensible, it's all the things that are wrong except for he actually used the words. I apologize, but not for the thing that he actually did. If he crossed the border for crossing the border crossing, the border was not like it was the slogan wasn't like run for the border or something like that. Make a run for the border. Yeah, yeah, that was there. That was the Taco Bell slogan. Yes. So maybe it was sub-conscious, but I feel like it's entirely possible that it wasn't and it was actually being passive aggressive. Continuing to be. That's why you're the pro is what else in the year of apologies is not yet funeral with Louis vac and lose fair, can isn't the most offensive or. That's amazing. So what else? What else has been going on some other goods and bads some other goods and met you? Should we alternate between good news? It was another really bad. Okay. Because I think we'll appreciate a good one that much more. Right. Here's a quickie. This is a one line one about an Atlanta woman with multiple sclerosis who flew on Delta Airlines to Amsterdam and they didn't have the right kind of wheelchair for her, which is kind that sort of tilts backwards and has strap buckles and straps. So they tried to put her in a regular wheelchair and tied her to the wheelchair with dirty blankets from flight. And she ended up with bruises and she was crying the whole time and they did it anyway. And the apology was we regret the perception. Our service has left on these customers. But we regret the bruises that we have left on these customer. We regret those not enough from an overhead compartment he wanted to place again in annals of corporate apologies like there particularly bad sometimes. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean. I don't know what it is about airlines that there have been zillion horrible. I mean, we fly delta. It was kind of hoping they'd have the fact that they hate us you that their mission is to make a suffer. It's clearly not, you know, we can take this to the top because a few months ago we had on the couple who had the delta themed wedding that you know, for whom there delta phantom was the factor of their marriage, the Jewish couple. So we can get in touch with them and ask them to special special hotline directly us in apology. Now we had Alaska where they moved the gay couple out of the seats that they had paid for in first class to seat a married, heterosexual couple. Yeah. And then what else was there? The United one where they dragged that older men? Yeah, the aisle that was his face bleeding. What should an airline say? Like what's a good way for a company to just own responsibility? Well, first of all, apologies are not panaceas. You can't fix everything with an apology. The best thing to do is for thing a not to have happened in the first place and be for we need to. I know, right, please don't drag people bleeding down Joan who tied people from ADA be handed do that. Exactly. If you can't do that, you say the thing you did, you know you say we're not we're sorry for the perception you say we're sorry. We tied her to a chair and you have to say the thing that you did they say are sorry. We treated treated a passenger in a way that was not like, can you say it? Can you sort of you have to be very careful not to steer into this is not who we are because it is who you are. You did this, you, they are. Marjorie, I have a question for you, so the corporate apologies are by their very nature if we know about them public, apologies, their press releases that corporations put out there or tweets. I'm always curious. Why does the corporation have to apologize? They didn't do anything wrong to me. In this case, the person who was wronged was the woman with multiple sclerosis. And if in fact they did to shoot a by getting in touch with her and saying, we're so sorry, we did this. What can we do to make it right, which are tradition teaches, is that true? The truth humility often is invisible right that the that the greatest Lamad Volve Nick, the most righteous person might be someone who doesn't in any way, advertise the good things they do. Why should they have to apologize to to like seven billion people all, but one or say five or ten of whom maybe the person's family or people who are traumatized in the immediate vicinity or whatever. We're not wronged by this. You know, we do live in a time of public shaming and it is in part a PR exercise. But I think it's also important to remember that there are other. There flyers who have disabilities and they want, they've read this and they want to be sure that they are not treated like that. If they fly this airline, their families of people with disabilities, and there are people who vote with their pocketbooks and want to support ethical companies. And you know, you want to know that somebody not only feels bad for thing that they did, but is going to part of a good apology that I don't know that we quite quite got to is how are you going to make amends to the person that you armed? And in the delta case, it was like here are twenty thousand sky miles, which they did not want this airline. You're never flying again. You know, how are you going to make amends personally? And how are you going to make sure this doesn't happen again, which we haven't heard how. So one of the apologies that I thought was great was, do you remember at Smith College an employee called the cop, the campus cops on a black woman. Man who was resting in outside the dining hall on a couch and they, she said, she seems out of place, and you know something very similar happened at Yale to this happen at Smith as well. Yes, it did. Well, they actually both were quote sitting down laying down in the living room area was resting sleeping in the light or someone in the library sleeping in the library. I who us hasn't. That's college. So I don't know what he's doing in there just laying on the couch and he was a she. But Smith was so transparent in how they handled it. They I, they did reach out to the person privately, but they also have a web page on which they are constantly updating how they are handling it. They immediately put the employees on leave pending an outcome of an external investigation which is being done by two independent civil rights. Attorneys, they are expand like a lot of people are do get, you know, bias training, but not everyone and the, they won't release the name of the person who did this, which I think is wise, but they're expanding bias training for the school. They've been updating on the website how everything is going, and you know the lists of who to contact if you experienced bias at Smith, and I thought that it was really well handled. You know, and people are going to be furious at you no matter what you do. So I think a lot of this, you know, tying into the Jewish stuff, you know, when you did the right thing and the wrong thing and you can't get forgiveness is never a guarantee. Okay. So we're still have to apologize. Here's a question about forgiveness. I feel like our scholarship of apologies has gotten really good, right? You have the five products, you know exactly what's going on when we stand on kinda gauging how and when we are able to forgive like, at what point do we say? Okay. Well, you know what? Smith you've done. This thing. You're good. Like we're back in enormous scheme of things and as opposed to delta sit, right? How do we determine that? It's not my monitor's thing. My monetize says that you have to, you know, after three apologies if you're not forgiving the sin is now on the other guy, but I was actually just talking to rabbi Don your Rottenberg about this. And she said that that is my monetize interpretation. Of a bit of Tom eunuch text, and it doesn't say the sin is on the other guy. It doesn't say anything other than you have to try to apologize three times. So you know, she was saying she takes that into nobody is owed forgiveness, which is a thing that you know be in my lack of jewel Jewish textual knowledge. Still set on the site is like, nobody owes you, forgiveness, but you, oh, apologies that said we all get to make our own decisions about, you know, when somebody is simply holding a grudge, you know, to go to to Buddha, you know the thing about when you're still holding a hot coal, hoping the other person is going to get burned. Like that's what an apology failing to be able to let go. But sometimes you know, in the case of trauma and abuse, you know, why should you have to let go? You don't have to forgive no matter what they feels a lot of stress culturally societally on the apology fashion and not actually a lot of. Conversation forget, you know, public kind of demand for a, it'll just be decent if it's not something, you know, hugely agree, just big taika person town with thirty blankets, just be like, okay, well, you know, I understand why you did this other if forgiving act in good faith, if they really are trying. And we're still finding fault with they're not one hundred percent there. I do feel like we have to learn to be a little charitable when people are trying to be educated times are changing. So fast definitions of what is. Language is changing so fast that I think we ought to offer a little patience and kindness when people are just people are trying you feel like social media's making that impossible. I feel like it's making a pretty freaking hard, but you know, for me, it's not just there's two reasons that I think there are two ways to look at forgiveness. Right one is, is it something, oh, the other person, and I think you're probably right that no, you know that it's never my place to say to someone who's been wronged, whether by me or someone else. Okay. It's time for you to forgive your rate. On the other hand, you know, if I'm if I'm talking to my kids, I'll tell them that, like, you know, anger makes people miserable and holding onto not forgiving. Other people only hurt yourself and that it's that it's. You know, it's not necessarily virtuous to forgive. I'm not gonna make it a moral quality because you know Justice is a complicated thing, and every case is different, but it's healthy to forgive right. Like I don't. You know, like I mean. If I want people to be happy often you are right? Like a again, I'm now I'm thinking of that time story recently about Lisa Brennan jobs, Steve Jobs, his daughter absolutely monstrous to her and she is determined to forgive him and everything that she says that she has forgiven him for it. You know, it was the stack upon stack of, oh my God, he's horrible. But I think obviously the writer doesn't write the headline, but the thing about sh she's forgiven her father. Do we have to know we don't have to, but we also accept accept you did wrong us. Let me finish. Yes, he did that. Bullshit. Home button on the iphone. Oppressed doesn't sin against humanity. We do not have to forgive him, but we also don't have the right to tell her the person who was wronged that she is being gaslight or or then her feelings or her for her forgiveness is an authentic or is wrong, right? It's none of our business. Though she did write a memoir about it, but she wants to sell the people. So there's like a. Do you ever feel like it's just too much like so much apology so much too many demands for podgy so much of the conversation about apology. Do you ever just want to say like, you know what? I'm a amount of the sorry game. It's why we are constantly seeking good apologies. People love to send us all these horrible, horrible policies. We don't. We we say, thank you, but we don't tackle most of them because it's just we don't want to be this endless fire hose of snark. You know, we want to be able to praise good apologies because they are part of the social glue that keeps us together and functioning as a society and learn, right? We want to think that everybody is educational and like when there's a good apology. You know it, it makes everybody feel good. It makes you feel good to hear about it and it makes the recipient feel good. I feel it can eat deposits for using the word educatable. I really love that word, but I've heard that before. Would you take it away from? Sorry, heard that before with one. Good. I'll take right away with one. Great. Apology back in April, a Texas charter school. A teacher. There gave an assignment to the to the eighth grade American history class where it was pleased list the positive and negative aspects of slavery. Brought home their assignment and was like, mom and the parent called the headmaster of the school. And the teacher was I, the teacher was placed on leave the superintendent who have decided as a Jew even though probably not Aaron, kindle kindle, we'll take him. Yeah, right. Well, it depends what. Okay. So he released a statement for he sent a letter to the parents and also released it on Facebook. So it was personal as well as public. It named the offense. It took responsibility. It acknowledged the hurt caused and it took prompt action. They not only remove the teacher from the classroom. They removed the textbook from the classroom to make sure that it wasn't coming from the textbook. And he also made. I mean, the sounds like you should be obvious, but he made the statement. There is no debate about slavery. It is immoral and a crime against humanity. And they also had a meeting with students to discuss why it was problematic. They had a meeting with parents and they Paul, again in the apology. And in the letter they published the contact info of all the people you could call and talk to. And you can't really ask for more than that, and I don't know what you know. And yes, I'm sure there are people on, you know, social media raging for people's heads to roll and everyone should whatever I should be beaten. But you know, look, that was a good apology, and it's a learning opportunity for the students actually say like, this is a bad. I mean, first of all, they learned what it's like to be when you're when the people who are supposed to be in charge of you apologize and do wrong. So that seems like a useful thing. Not that this was a good thing that happened, but like the fact that then they started talking about all this stuff. I think you actually probably learn more about what is important. Yeah, that's that's a really, really good point. And I'm reminded there's children's book by the late meme. FOX called Harriet. You'll drive me wild and it's a picture book. It's a little kid picture book, and it's about this kid just being grad your and bratty your and bratty or sometimes on purpose, and sometimes by accident and the mom. Finally, the mom just loses her shit, and then the mom apologizes, and I think that is so important for kids to know that we are all flawed people. Your parents are flawed people. And when you screw up, you'll policies, you know bluster and you don't say because I'm the parent. That's why. And you know. Leila smirking at me because he says, because I'm the parent, that's because like I feel like kids get really stressed out when they do something wrong. But this idea that like you, we all do bad things. We all mess up and like you can apologize, and then it's it's done, right? Like right, move on. Right. And you know, I think it's a great opportunity also to teach kids not to use, sorry, but you know, sorry, but my little brother was provoking me, sorry. But you didn't tell me that Marjorie. We're sorry, but we have to wrap this up, fine. Marjorie angle. Thank you so much for being here. You can check out. Sorry, watch dot com. You can find Marjorie on tablet MAG, and on the social media can read her very siege book. Mama knows best. Thank you and we are working on a sorry, watch book as well. Thank you guys. I'll be fifty seven seventy nine happy fifty. Seven seventy nine. That's the amount of apologies that will have to be made publicly is coming here. A few months ago, we got a letter from listener. How carp about how an apology he made to his brother's saved, a relationship between them that had once seemed unsalvageable. Here's how in Dallas, Texas in nineteen Ninety-two my brother John, and I, both in our mid to late twenties, found each other in need of a place to live. Let's get a place together. John suggested one day. Wow, I thought this sounds like a sitcom hip. Been cooled, Jewish brothers living together. I imagined wild parties, hot girls, lots of laughs. What a great idea. I responded taking him up on the offer. This will be perfect, but it wasn't because I had a secret. I was active alcoholic and a drug addict, and I was entering what would become the stage of my diction where things really went downhill fast. I showed up late to work if at all when I did make an appearance, I was an arrogant s with the little money I made. I had my priorities drugs and alcohol first, then everything else, rent and utilities. Those were in the everything else list. How I need your share the rent. John would say that I matter of factly I'm waiting. I'm getting paid for my overtime. I reply. I always had excuses which were really lies. And when those ran out, I'd give John check that would bounce. There must have been a mistake at the Bank. I'd say. John was far from stupid, though I secret was becoming apparent the plethora of beer cans. Today's I never left for work the school nights. I stayed up way too late. But I was John's brother John was is a true match. And so he gave me more chances than I deserved, but everyone has a breaking point after three months of never paying rent handing in bad checks and turning our -partment into a stye. I asked John depletes return some power tools. I'd loaned him they were in the back of his car. Why do you want them? He asked that's none of your business. I said I was actually planning. I'm pawning them not for rent money, but for cocaine, when you pay me something, anything you can have the tools, Johns said, glaring at me. I snatched his car keys and bolted out the door dashing to the parking lot. I popped the hat on the back of his car, and it was about to grab my circular. Saw with John, ran up. You better not take those tools in a flash. He was on my back pulling me to the ground and swinging left and right. Somewhere along the way. I've been told that if someone ever attacks you in public, make it obvious that you're the one being attacked in the police will know who to seize. So I started screaming how some call the police house not being attacked sure enough. When the police showed John was arrested. Grinning I stood, what does my brother was led away in handcuffs, fix this? How make this right? He screamed. I gave him the finger return to our apartment and cracked open a beer. John phone from jail to say, I'd better get him out. I had one response. Have you had one of those delicious? Baloney sandwiches yet, and I slammed the phone down into it's cradle having been to jail myself more than once I was familiar with jailhouse cuisine, my stays in county lockup where nothing criminally, glamorous mind you warrants for unpaid traffic tickets. Lots of warrants. Not only was I lose her brother and roommate. I was a loser criminal too. When the phone rang. Again, it was our father. He was on his way to bail John out. How could you do this to your brother? He yelled, you got twenty four hours to vacate that apartment how we are done with you. But my mother said to me how. Who are you. And Lastly, I. I didn't have an answer because I, I wondered the same exact thing all the time. Years later, eventually facing hard time prison because I'd graduated from unpaid tickets to credit card fraud, mail, fraud and Bank fraud. I sat one night in the dark, dumbfounded wondering how did I end up here? Nice. Jewish boys don't go to prison for whatever reason at that very moment I gave up and became willing to do what was necessary to live and stay sober. And I found a group of people who were willing to teach me how. Realized was my first prayer to God. I simply said God. If you're there. I felt his presence in every cell of my being. God was there. Tiny light had gone off in the darkness inside my soul, that Toby that there was a future. I had no idea what it was. I knew it was not gonna look good for a long time, but. But it was also the first night. I actually slept somewhat peacefully long. I can remember. And then the next day. I as sobriety. In those years that had passed my brother had gotten married and in time, my family came to see that I was serious about staying clean as part of my sobriety. I needed to make amends to the people I had harmed. So I made a list was freaking long, but I started working my way through when it came to my brother. I simply could not imagine a way to make things right by never pay my share of anything. I'd stolen from him. Worse because of me, he had a criminal record. The notion of simply telling him I was, sorry, seemed so lacking. So in my daily prayers, I added God. I'm willing to make amends to my brother. I'm willing to make things right. If you'll show me how. Late that summer, a series of events took place. I could not have predicted my brother's marriage suddenly ended, and he was living alone with his dog. My parents and other family were out of the country and my phone rang, it was John. I need to have surgery. He told me I was wondering if you'd be willing to drive me to and from the hospital and stay with me while I recover. It was a pass. Yes. I stammered I'd be happy to do this. Two weeks later with intense gratitude. I rose and picked up John before dawn during surgery. I sat in the waiting room and I was the family member who the surgeon came out and told things have gone well. When I took him home, it was a hot summer day. I helped him out of the car. I thought of just how different things word from their previous summer day. And our story together, I once heard a young Kippur sermon for the rabbi compared guilt and shame to carrying around pockets full of stones. We've been punch in sway from the weight of it. All said it drags us down. I was reaching into my pockets and taking it rocks and pebbles by the handful. In the week that followed, I walked his dog lovable black lab mix named nipsy cooked his meals cleaned and did some laundry. There was a couch and his bedroom where I slept, give him when he woke contain surpassed the time. We mostly watched television for some reason, no matter what time it was or when I looked up at the TV the show in the heat of the night, always on this show have its own freaking channel. I asked prising to him to give him beds. I love this show John said, but don't make you laugh. It hurts. As the week drew close though I needed to sit down with John and formerly make amends. It had to be direct and clear nervous on the last night of my stay. I stepped outside to walk nipsy and looked up at the night sky. I asked God to be with me to help me say the right thing. Although it had been hot, but cool, wind whispered through the trees and swept across my face. And I knew I knew I wasn't alone. There's something I wanna talk to you about. I told John when I came back in when I was in the depths of my diction, you allowed me to come live with you. You took me in and gave me shelter, and I did not appreciate that. In fact, I have used it endlessly. I look back on that day when you were arrested and I shut her get haunts me that could do something so horrific to someone. I love to someone who's been nothing but generous. I know this week is only been an iota of time, but thank you for giving me this chance to show you that I'm not the person I was. By now I was crying. I'm so sorry. What I did. I was wrong. If I could do things over, I'd do it also differently. John looked at me a moment appears in his eyes and said, you just did. That was how carp in Dallas, Texas, he's writer storyteller, and you can find more of his work at oral fixation show dot com. Stephanie Budnick. What does this season of reckoning and repentance mean to you? Okay. Here's the thing. I love that. There's like a setup a set time in the Jewish calendar to think about like what we've done in the past year. I do this all the time. I leave a social situation and replay the entire thing in my head did I say something stupid? Did I say something? Maybe offensive? Is this person mad at me? Is this person still mad at me? Like, this isn't ongoing theme in my life is all the time. So when this holiday comes around, I'm like. I've already reckoned with every single potentially stupid thing I said and have bat, you know, beating myself, you know, whatever. Like it's so funny to me that I'm like, oh, so now we all do this. This thing torments me every day in my life. But the other thing it's interesting is in the in the lead up to this episode, you sort of prompted us to think about apologies. I'm actually such a non-confrontational person. I streak shrivel from confrontation that actually I don't find myself in I patently avoided situations that would require apologies or would require others to give me apologies because I just I just shrink from conflict. And so there's a way in which I don't have these amazing stories about the time. I, I did something like I done bad things and I know, but I like think about it every single day of my entire life. I did something really shady to my best friend in college. It has to do with sorority rush. I'm not going to repeat the story because it doesn't sound as bad as it because what happens. It's already rush. Stay source, rush. But it was an awful thing, and I feel that and it was eight years ago and I, I'm guilty about it almost every other day these things are. You know, like we were past that and we're, we're still friends, but these things weigh on me all year round. And so I find it difficult to be honestly difficult for me with my disposition to have to be forced to think about this again. Maybe that makes me does that make me a bad Jew, I don't know. Great. You have. I just not displayed enough anxiety and a rosiest to qualify for the hall of fame you've internalized and the idea that we always should be looking at our actions and needing chess beating a young Kapoor. Like I'm all for that. I'm all in. But I think there's a way in which. I feel in my experience like I do feel guilty all the time. I do feel have these feelings. So it is hard for me to then like to not get obsessive about this, like who, who like this, this sort of the somber -ness of young Kapoor and of and of the season. And just this, this really stark contrast of, will you get into the book of life? Do you deserve it? And for someone who is like me, who is an anxious person, that's a really start. That's not the radical to me that's really frigging real. So that's that's actually really interesting because honestly, Yom Kippur is not at all sombre holiday. I mean, there are kind of anxious about the who shall live, who shall die the right, but you know, it's it's part of a cycle of life. It's actually a day of great rejoicing because we are. A cleared of our of our sins if not by divine decree than certainly by personal interaction and we're celebrating the beginning of a new year and the end of the period of reflection which for you blasts the sixty five days. Unless the hype here it's, it's a celebration. It's a happy day because the work that you do while anxiety driving and mad maddening in a way. It's also really looking good for you. Now, do you feel that you're not feel like lighter because you actually have the capacity to reflect them grow? That's true. I mean, I think what I would like to work on the series like letting go of the thing I did ten years ago that was bad and actually forgiving myself for some of the like, I would like to feel that lightness, I would she's dead and nothing's going to bring back the old Taylor can't come to the phone. She's she's dead. So this was a good session. How much do I? Oh, you guys. Okay. That's my markup and higher. I'm very curious to hear your take on this. Just start this by saying Mark, you are someone who readily apologize like you. You deal with things as they happen. So I'm curious how the taking inventory part of year works for you because you do sort of like neatly resolve things. I think as you have conflagrations but you sort of solve them right away. Yeah. I mean, that's nice to hear right from from two people whom I have apologized to in the past. I think I'm pretty good about apologizing in the moment. I think that it's usually with people who might have a lot of love with and a lot of trust with like, I'm very good at maintaining those relationships. I think that we all have those people in our lives who were kind of more loosely connected to or tethered to who sometimes drift off. Right? Like the college friend who you plan to stay in touch with and maybe you do once or twice. There's no formal break, but then by six or eight months or year and a half after college, you realize you've talked for the last time or the, you know the the encounter with someone in the workplace, who then before you have a chance to apologize because the they work on a different floor, they have different schedule. They've left and moved on to another company. And so these things, you know, it's not a close friendship that that I feel my God, like it's weighing on me that I haven't maintained it at somebody who was in my life. Maybe something ended in maybe something ended in an icky or kind of angry way, but not enough that I really leap on it. And once I let it go once it sort of a few. You months or year in the past, then I'm real chicken shit about about getting in touch with the person. But Mark, you bring up an interesting point which which is this. I mean, you actually also consider the role of the apology kind of in the ark of the friendship has ever been a time for your times for you in which she said in which you said, I apologize to this person, but does actually not going to be a relationship, so they probably don't want my apology. It's better to just move on. That's actually something I'm grappling with with a few people, and I think about them every Kapoor they're like two or three people from my past, who I just feel these are not people wronged terribly in the grand scheme of things. But I feel like I want to apologize, but I have to check myself because I also want to be friends with them again, and I'm kind of aware that they've moved on. And so I feel like the apology would be kind of self serving way to force them back into relationship with me because they kind of have to accept the apology or at least be nice about it. And yet they don't really want to be in relationship with me. So maybe I should just let it lie. I mean, I'll give you an example there. I had a friend who I technically was roommates with when I was getting very involved with sit with with my wife, and I basically just like moved out on him because sit had an apartment your by, and I was out of town a lot. I was out of town about half the week and then the two or three nights when I was in town, I was staying, it sits -partment and I basically just like left the apartment that I'd been living in with this friend and he was a friend of some years standing. Somebody had gone to school with for a number of years and had a really wonderful times with we'd had a couple of road trips together. But I just moved out on him and not officially. I still have my stuff there and there was no fight. We never. We never yelled at each other, but then I was just gone. And then at some point, the lease expired and I was gone for good, and I've just always felt like he might have actually been fairly devastated like he might have really missed me and I've never worked, but he also might not have and the friendship has has ended. And we haven't talked for ten or fifteen years and it's like, do I reach on say something? Or is that just like pure narcissism? I don't know because, and then it's like that was a long time ago. That was one marriage in five kids ago. Right? Like so I I'm curious how like time plays into this. Is it totally to apologize for something old or is it just dredging? Has this guy like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, he was an asshole. And then then I moved and forgot about him. Like is it? Is it selfish right to search kidding, right? You know he and I'm also someone who lives in the past. I'm very algae on stuck in the past. So I am reliving it really not not all the time, but at least once a month, I think about. This, and I think I should have done. I should have done better if only for a few seconds, I think about it and I percents on it just because I'm so eager to be like, so that's kind of that's my. That's one of my young Kapoor failings or sins that that I have. All right. So new year new podcast, we at unorthodox teamed up with DASA, the women's Zionist organization of America to bring you the branch. It's a podcast about Arabs and Jews working together in Israel, even when working together is not always so easy. Each episode of the branch focuses on a different relationship between Jew and an Arab Palestinian the first episode which I totally loved, especially the phenomenal music tells the story of office Arab Hebrew theatre through the friendship of two musicians but DNA craft host of the branch. Can you tell us a little bit about episode number two, thanks Mark. Happy new year to you and happy new baby to you as well. And so, yes, episode to it's our back to school episode and it's now out and we are super excited. I invite everyone to come along with me and walk down the hallways and into the classrooms and playground of bilingual school in Jerusalem. And it's a place where Jewish and Arab children study and play together in each other's languages and they make what seems like the hardest thing together seeing like. The most normal thing in the world. Now, the schools face challenges when extremists try to shut it down. But since then it has just been growing and growing. And as you mentioned, the branch focuses on a different relationship in each podcast episode and this time, the story of the school is told in the context of a friendship, a friendship between two teachers, one Arab and one Jewish, and we talked to them about how they navigate teaching some of the toughest questions of identity equality. If you want to know more about the podcast, the branch which is produced with us here at unorthodox along with DASA, you could check it out on itunes or your favorite podcast app or just go to its very own website. DASA dot org slash of the branch. And now a story from our producer and editor, no, eleven som. It's the first week of may earlier this year, quick on Stuart is sitting at home. He lives in mount Vernon, New York, just outside of Yonkers, and he gets a concern text from a friend. He was like, you'll bro. You're right. I'm like, yeah. What you mean? He was like, bro, you pictures all in news, Mike, you're bugging, what are you talking about? So he sends me the link and I see it as a picture from Facebook on and my name and everything. And I was scared. So I saw a read in the post. I'm like, all shoot. What is the. It was the New York Post headline man posts video ridiculing, scenic children over haircuts a star reading, reading it now. Oh, what is going on. Quaid maids video the day before he'd been working for a company that made deliveries for Amazon, and he was delivering a package to north at home in Brooklyn. When he came across a group of young Jewish boys, I haven't seen a kid like that in a while, like the hair, the locks and everybody little kids, honest, I don't. I don't be around Jewish people as much to really sit in like, oh, wow, that's that's normal. That's. I mean it is normal because that's what they do. That's how that's Fitch edition, but it's not normal for me if I don't see that every day. Wanted little Jews case in another kid with sitting there trying to fight over over like a bike or something little kid walks to me of set like he's walking passing, and that's when starts taking the video. He's already got his phone out looking for the delivery address. You don't see quay in this fifteen. Second clip. Just the kid. This cute pale confused looking cacique boy, really short hair in the top of his head and long Brown pay is coming down from the sides. He doesn't appear to be much older than three in the video. He's walking towards the camera. It looks like he's about to walk right past it, but then he stops when he realizes that the person holding the camera is actually talking to him. I'll be crying if they'd be doing, I go Bobby, that's fucked up like broke. You probably had the full washing that you should be. Fire probably could cookies. You Fogdoe Bosia life. The boy just looks up quite during this exchange. You can't really tell that he's upset or anything other than thoroughly confused. It's pretty hard to imagine. That he understood what quite was talking about getting the full washing said. I actually look that one up after the video according to Kway the boy just walks off. All right to be on this. When I seen the kid, I was just thinking, I, what can I say this? Honestly, funny, that's what can I say that that will that other think was funny. I wasn't thinking on. How would he feel about when did you think even to take out your phone? I guess you saw the haircut and honestly working over there, I would always be fascinated because I'm black. So being on black and I never was around many Jewish people like never hung out with them. Like I mean, my babysit OBI, but that's not like. I'm not out there. Seeing million Jewish people were looking at me like, oh, well, he's the only one that's black walking through here anyway, quite posts video, and the reaction is totally not what he was expecting. Some people actually do think it's funny. So I know for fact, is store percentage of people that still on. Just racist, you're you do that. You don't. You're not a Mench is so many already. You originally Facebook went from Snapchat, Facebook, and from Facebook, somebody, put it on Twitter, go to Twitter, and I see two point five million views on on my. What. By the way, the only person becoming famous here even today, if you search Google for the term has boy, this little kids bewildered face comes right up. Looking at you from the screen as if to ask. Admits that he didn't really feel guilty at I, even though he was starting to see a lot of negative comments and demands at Facebook, take the video down which they've actually did. It was still up on Twitter, gaining us every minute. He was mesmerized at them moment when I was going viral. All of that, you show apologize. And I wasn't thinking about none of that not saying I shouldn't, but I wasn't thinking about it because I was so focused on the numbers and so focused on how many people actually seen as video and will know my name like it's like internet is honestly addiction. Quays conscience eventually caught up with him when the video got one few too many grandmother from Florida sent meet at news post after my friend sent sent it to me, she sent it to me out of nowhere. I would this the least prison lease expected hood is, and that's all the way in Florida. She was just really upset and wanted me to fix that. I literally upset and I never had my grandmother upset with me like that. And when this happened, I didn't know how to make up for this video. They know how to like fix, fix the issue. So quit makes another video in his car outside his home. This time he has a camera pointed at himself recently posted online video of me coming out a little kid in regards his head cut over are just want to sincerely apologize to that young boy, his family. I'm sorry, I'm truly sorry. I think about it every day. Now that was really like if it was my little brother. You're right. I don't want this to be like a race thing. I have nothing against Jewish people. I have friends that are Jewish. My. Babysitter growing up was Jewish is nothing like I have nothing against Jewish people. Trust me datum through too much too much. We've been through as much as they've been. They've been through worse. I don't have no issues where Jewish people, but right there that was just me being real immature and is making me seem like a person that I'm not like. I'm really not that type of person. I'm not disrespectful. I'm really not. I'm a community guy that right there just made me look and feel like a whole another person, but after the fact and it's my fault that I didn't think about this while I was doing it before I even did it that, right. There's a form of bullying. I'm not a bully. I would never bully anybody. I can't say never because that right there was a form of and are truly sorry for that. That right there. I cannot take that bag. I can't. It goes on like this for another full minutes at one point. And honestly looks like he's about to cry. I can't even speak right now. That's how I am. But I just want to really let the world know like. That right. There was one big mistake. It was a big mistake overnight. Quite basically goes from internet villain to honorary nj from Kirsty Heyman to blessed be mortified. I've never seen anything like the new video gets thousands of responses from Jewish Twitter, almost all of them telling him good. It's all forgiving, benchers thrown around a lot. Now that apology is Twitter. I'm telling you, Twitter, they support me a lot. That's crazy. I didn't know it and all my supporters on Twitter are honestly Jewish. So it's like all because it is actually read in. I think it was in the Jewish daily forward that you went around the streets of Brooklyn beginning when I I did the video. I forgot about what I did the video on. I just thought stopping random Jewish people like I stopped to people. Honestly, the second guy actually recognize my face and I randomly walked up tonight. I was just accident one. If one was to disrespect like the Jewish, the whole Jewish community, how does he like how? How does someone fix that? And he looked at me and he was just like, are you to post that video? Like, yeah, heinous like, wow, I just wanted to say your good. That apology was perfect. You don't need nothing else. And that shocked me right then and there like literally this man just randomly knows exactly why. Say the whole trajectory. This story really surprised me. It's not that I didn't think quay deserved forgiveness for what he did was just taken aback this actually get it. It's a truism that the culture of the internet is to be really unforgiving, but you can never live anything down online. Someone's just always waiting to take the dumbest thing you've ever said or done and throw it back in your face. I can't really think of any other stories that play out like this where someone pisses the whole internet off. And then by the end of the week, their hero, then it strikes me preps. The internet isn't actually unforgiving. Maybe it just seems that way because it's so unapologetic, we're so used to watching people in the public sphere squirm their way at properly apologizing saying there. Sorry, if their actions heard people or burying their regret in a press release on their website so that nobody ever really sees them in a remorseful posture, but they can still be on the record as having apologized. That one drives me crazy. This video of quay sitting. There in his car choked up admitting that he made a mistake. It's so simple, but it really moved a lot of people. It's been about four months since all this happened and quite still gets a decent amount of attention for what he keeps referring to is this whole Jewish thing. Yet. One point shows me is phone looking through various inboxes on social media. He's still gets press inquiries in private messages about it. As he scrolling something new pops up, your the do that recorded hazarding boy in a win for our right. I want to ask for permission, maybe usual line as a tag for my beats. I'm getting all of that. He wants. He wants to the line from the original video. I don't know which beat. Neom click. Maybe or you think maybe your voices to come on for. Oh boy. I think he. Okay. So you didn't say yes or no? To know what are you gonna say, I'm allergic to it. Okay. Is there part of you that bills. Against women is part of you feels like hang on. I made this video. I told everyone I was sorry that I made it. Maybe I shouldn't allow shirt. Yeah, shouldn't embrace it are. Might you think about you? Let me know. Bingo, because it is not really doing to me like it doesn't affect. I don't mind saying no, no. The reason to say no would be like, man, I regret this video. I just don't want this to go any further embracing if I told him. Yeah, but I don't. I think it's just a random person. I don't even know who this is, but he's not really using the the the line that people will take issue with like he's just fucking bro. It's your life which is actually pretty good rep book. So you not making anybody making me wanna say. Decision. I think quite enjoy some of the attention after all. That's why posted the video in the first place he thinks of himself as an entertainer. He wants to be a comedian, but he also wishes he could move on from this one thing he's known for even though he said yes, to the interview, he tells me he really doesn't like doing this stuff like Parker interviews, our like doing like I like doing them. I don't like doing them for this topic because me personally, I wanna really like what I wanna be in life. Yeah, what I wanna do. I feel like if I keep talking about this, she's gonna hold me back and I wanna be something like I really wanna be entertained. And like if you see my social media really understood this is just like holding me back personally, I feel like quake keep scrolling through his phone video, somebody else's p two million views right now. Well, how does that make you feel? I don't care. It's just the point that people still took it off mafia, JR. I don't. I really don't understand that. I just don't. I know it's a bit pedantic, but quiz never sat through Yom Kippur service before, and so I can't resist telling him the old story about the gossiper and the feather pillow. This is one of the few things that stuck with me from Hebrew school. Actually, it's some story about a rumor, somebody spreads ally or something or rumor about someone and everybody learns about it. And this guy like Israel embarrassed who the rumors about probably telling the story pretty bad. Anyway, the men spread the rumor suddenly feels terribly guilty. And so he goes to the rabbi to ask them what to do. The rabbi instructs the man to meet him at the top of the hill, the feather pillow from his home when they get there, the rabbi Terrassa pillow open and the feathers going all directions. Thereby then tells the gossip that if he wants to undo his actions, he should go pick up every single one of those feathers and stuff back into the. Well. And like the lesson is like, you can't once he'd put it out into the world, like it's like a million feathers flying in the wind. You can't control where it goes after that. True. I see what you mean. Funny thing is something very similar already happened to quit just last year. He was out on the street, taking videos in this case of a homeless woman in his neighborhood named Rachel just messing with her like he take out five bucks and then yank it back when she'd go to reach for it. So mean then it caught on Trent. Everybody started doing what I was doing. I started recording her joking on her when seen her, like literally, everybody said, appoint where it is laid. I remember it was a data's lady told me she hates me. She liked because everybody keeps doing this to everybody keeps recording. Local news caught win that Quayle was making these videos and dragged him for it. And all of that negative attention inspired to make a change. So I switched stop messing were literally started taking care. Like I used to work at the casino, bring her food, bring her close like this date is lady will call my phone. And from there quay just started getting more and more involved in feeding the homeless. At one point, he raised over a thousand dollars on go fund me so that you could make a bunch of bag lunches and. Hand them out to homeless people around the community says, he's done this about fifteen or twenty times a few months ago. He received the public service award from the Yonkers African American heritage committee, but it's not even about that honestly is just about how many faces Aachen actually feed at one time. If you hungry, you should eat. Everybody deserves a plate. If I haven't, I'm gonna give it to you is a lot of homeless people in Yonkers Saint people for years. So it's like Dan, I, we're used to that where you see homeless people, he's good, he'd be. I know I don't work like that. Like people fail realize like they're homeless, look what you just had home. Let's imagine if you was home list. Wow. Here's how I feel about quite. I don't think judgment is accurate, at least not about things like social media and what's -fensive and what's not. I have to say I wouldn't be surprised if he gets into trouble third time for some dumb in video. He posts online, but I do think people can learn over time and they generally due to my mind, the greater virtue is humility which has more of than most people. I know if he ever does Stephan it again with something like this. I bet it makes up for it. And then some just seems like that kind of guy. I ask why? If he felt he was square with the Jewish community after all this? And he said, not at all volunteered. A couple of times at the must be a soup kitchen, a kosher food pantry in Brooklyn, but he knows he could do it more often. He's also had the opportunity to play shabas go a couple of times and he wants to do it again because I know when it comes to Jewish people certain days that they can't do certain things like they can't touch certain things. They can't rack none of that so, but they have people that can do for them. And I was, I didn't know what it's called and none of that. So I would Shabbat Goi. That's what I'm saying. So I was like, I'm trying to be one of those for. Yeah, because I, I really wanna show ya. I'm sorry, like if you have any of those days. Yeah, I need to come in and turn on the stove. No, I lack. Gotcha. I just trying to clean everything up now. Quiz never been able to find the kid from the video so that he could say, he's sorry in person, someone it must be offered to look into it for them, but they never had any success. I'm still holding out hope that someone who listens to this show actually does recognize the kid and those family. If you do, please reach out to us. Quay is a special type of person. He's ready to apologize. Oh, there's so many things that just never end like the Jewish holidays. They never and it's Russia Sean, and then it's Kapoor and then it Sokoto many out Sarid and then you're thinking Hanukkah. What else never ends the growth of my beard, which is why Harry's razors are like as ever present as the Jewish holidays as ever present as my now five children, I wanna stay smooth and that means shaving all the time I take Sunday's off, but otherwise I'm a six day week shaver. That's why I'm grateful to Harry's. They were fed up with paying too much for razors so they did something about it. They bought a terrific factory and they began marketing straight to us over the web to save us money. They have a quality guarantee. The guarantee is if you don't love your shave, you let them know within thirty days and they give you a full refund. Get a thirteen dollars value trial set that comes with everything you need for a close comfortable shave, the handle the five, late razor, the shave gel travel blade cover and look. Harry's stands behind the quality of their blades, but they know it's not easy to switch. So the trial offer here. It is listeners this year show unorthodox can redeem their trial said harrys dot com. Slash unorthodox, make sure you go to harrys dot com slash unorthodox. And yet the trial offer, let them know that unorthodox sent you. That's right. Unorthodox and not only will you be smooth, but you will help your favorite podcast go to harrys dot com. Slash. Orthodox. All right. We know that you are all jonesing for the credits, but before we get to them, one little extra special holiday treat for longtime. We've been aching to team up with Sarah left in the creative genius behind him bomb dot com, which has those amazing short little funny Torah videos that my kids love and we thought what better chance to bring her onto unorthodox than to invite her to do a little infotainment infomercial about that random holiday that happens between Russia, Shana and Yom Kippur. Many of you didn't even know it existed, but it did. It's called some good Dalia. It happened on Wednesday, and we hoped to tell you about it before it happens, but we didn't. And for that, we apologize anyway. Have a listen. Some good. I'll use a minor fast on the Jewish calendar. You may never have heard of minor because it's dawn to dusk, not a full twenty four hours. You know, minor if you've always dreamt of fasting on Yom Kippur, but thought, dang, that's hard. You could think of this as the starter fast comes three days after Russia shine commemorates this political incident. Way back in five eighty six BC basically Nebuchadnezzar destroys the temple and exiles. Most of the Jews only a few regular Joes hang out in the holy land. After that, there's a governor named good Dahlia who's wonderful, but not very politically savvy things were going on fine or so. It seemed, but then this jealous rival rises up and kills him. Now, here's the thing Goodall. You was warned about this assassination attempt and he'd Nord the warning. Maybe he was generous. Maybe he was naive, you decide it's all written up in the book of Jeremiah. After the assassination, everything goes to crap the Jews scatter, and that's the end of Jewish autonomy in the land of Israel for two thousand years sad. So. Commemorate all this right after the new year in the holiday season. Some people say because it's a chance to focus on how our actions contribute to the community's health and community in fighting. So what do you do on Somalia? Us as special prayers called sleek coat that are about saying, sorry in the morning, you hear a tow reading about God, forgiving the people for the Senate of the golden calf and you fast. But here's the good news about fasting in the book of after it says that in the days to come, when the most chef comes all the fast as will be turned two days of joy and feasting. So it's like fast now party later. For more Jewish learning on holidays, you've heard of and those you haven't visit been bombed dot com. B. m. b. a. m. dot com. Instead of mazal tops. I think that we should talk about some apologies that we think need to be made in the year to come and I will go, I, I will go first couple things. First of all, there's there's something I'm sitting on, right? It's not something I have to apologize for, but I have this friend who in a private Email spat called me an asshole. And I've been called an asshole before, but it was kind of like kind of like she meant it. She wasn't kidding, and she didn't think anything of it. And again, in her mind is probably a minor spat, but I have. I really sat on this out with me because it seemed a moment of cruelty in a conversation that I thought was kind of that I had hoped was light hearted and I don't think she realized how much it cut me because I felt like I would never use that language toward her, and I just need to reach out to her and tell her that my feelings were really hurt and then and then she can do it at what she will. But I'm mad at her and I don't want to be mad at her. And I think part of part of this season is getting over those things ourselves and doing the work to get over them. So I need to bring it up with. Her, and I think we need to apologize to all the people whom we made feel unwelcome in our communities. This could be converts whose conversion status we've crudely intact asleep pointed out or people who we've doubted our Jews because they don't look like we think Jews are supposed to or Jews who we've simply forgotten because they're invisible because they're housebound or elderly or just are depressed and not getting out of bed. And really those are the moments and we should be saying, hey, where's so? And so I haven't seen her or him around lately, and we don't. We just forget about them because we remember the people who show up for for Schuler for the parties or for the, you know, for the hockey game or whatever. And there are a lot of people who who aren't showing up, but they might be the ones who need us the most. So I think we, we owe all of them in apology, and let's try to do better in fifty, seven Seventy-nine. Leo I'm basically just going to say m men to everything. You just said, I think really the greatest biggest most meaningful apology. We. Offer. It's just to everyone that we've made feel unwelcome, whether it's because of, you know, political conflagrations if it's because of, you know, religious inflammations for whatever reason that made any of us make anyone else feel anything, but absolutely one hundred percent warmly welcome as if they truly belong in this great big Jewish party of ours. Apologies and we will do better Amen to your Amen. Stephanie button neck. So we talked a little bit about public apologies and sort of twenty teens like the year of of people doing being outed as as doing, having done really horrific things. I want to say that one thing we never got was actually an apology from Harvey Weinstein. He issued statements and there's, you know, there's a link on like, what is this? There's only gun USA today that says, Harvey Weinstein, read his full apology and you like control f. it and there's no word apologize. There's no word. Sorry. And it's like, oh, that's actually not an apology. So I think that there's a way in which ABC's of these public statements that like don't have those words in it enough of that makes anything better. But I feel like it shows just like a reckoning and I want I want that Harvey if you're listening in jail. Yeah, there Mark. I'm actually going to triple down on what you said. We get a lot of flack for being normative, and it is funny right? Like we are, you know, we sort of play it up a little bit and being very New York Centric baba. Like, I think we do need to recognize that not all Jews look the same and not all Jews are people who came from eastern Europe, and I think we need to do a better job of being more welcoming color. All of us live in New York City. Chicago and like this idea. Like I know we are sort of perpetuating, but like I think that that saying you don't look Jewish. Like, let's let's not say that at all this year instead of just apologizing, we're going, we're going to show how we're going to change and you're not going to question someone who's who's at temple. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate us on itunes and sheriff's with your friends. Who do you know who would appreciate our reflections on Kapoor? What Facebook group are you in that cares about a tone or Judaism, or just being good people? So share this episode, help us get the word out and make sure you subscribe to the show. We don't want you to ever miss an episode. A lot of our best apology stories come to us from you when we get your letters and your voicemails after our policy episode. So if you have anything to share with us, if you have feelings about our episode or if you think you might have a story for us for coming years, right to us on orthodox tab, amac dot com or call and leave us a message. Nine one, four, five, seven zero four, eight, six, nine. Please indicate if you'd be okay with us playing it on the air. We read every letter and listen to every message. Brought to you by tablet magazine on the web, at tablet dot com. Get our newsletter by asking for it at unorthodox tablet, MAG dot com to book us or to advertise with us. Email producer, Josh cross at j. cross with a k. at tablet MAG dot com. And if you want to wear or carry or sport unorthodox good at bit dot Li slash unearth to order our swag follow us on Instagram at unorthodox podcast. On Twitter at unorthodox, underscore pod follows Stephanie on Instagram at eh, Sputnik, join our Facebook group I show is produced by Josh cross shirts, Alaskan and no eleven who is also our editor editing assistance by Sophia Steiner IBO our artwork is by Esther word ago. Our theme music by Gholam online at Gholam rocks dot com. And our mailbox, the newly freshened up. As you've heard is by Steve Barton rabbinic supervisions by cantor sheera Ginsburg who about one year ago at this time was a -ficiating at the wedding of Stephanie button and Benjamin Cohen. We recorded Argo studios without apology, and we're proud to be part of the panoply network. She'll know.

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 Unorthodox Live in D.C.: Ep. 166

Unorthodox

1:21:13 hr | 1 year ago

Unorthodox Live in D.C.: Ep. 166

"I want to take an opportunity to remind everybody that while we are in a sanctuary where knocking exactly here godly words during this podcast. It is not rated G. So please be prepared and for warrant and now I'd like to welcome from the number one Jewish podcast in the world. Mark Oppenheimer Stephanie button and Liel liebowitz of unorthodox. Hello, Washington DC. We are related to be the guest of Washington. Hebrew, congregation. We are at a show co sponsored by the association of reform Jewish educators, or as they call themselves a R J. We're trying to start a movement to call get them to call themselves Arcay or R J. We'll see if that works. We're glad to be here tonight with many hundreds of you in what seems to be the the the astrodome of Judaism this this is like the high holidays face. I don't know that I've ever been in a room this large when there wasn't professional sports being played. This is amazing are Jew of the week. This week is food historian and writer, Michael Tweedie. And are gentile of the week is newly elected congresswoman, Katie porter. And Katie I don't think I've seen since her wedding which was a number of years ago, and before that college, I mean, we've we were close friends in college. And and then we have not seen each other much since. So it's it's exciting to be like, you got a podcast. Do you get to see your old friend? Katie. I'm going to my we'll get to everything about to go to my ten year college reunion, and I'm excited to think about the people who are going to end up being in elected officials one day. And I think it's people at least expect maybe a Katie is. I've seen wanted to at least expect and we will I I will say that to her face in just a few minutes. But listen before we get to the guests know what is Stephanie? What is up what's up, but Nikki Ana that's not a place. But what's up with me? Is that? So is the twentieth anniversary of the sopranos premiering. And I don't know about you guys. But I actually had never watched the sopranos because I was a little young and then never really got into it. But I spent a lot of time this past week watching the sopranos. Did anyone else? Do that you read all the articles about it. Yeah. You did that interview with David chase. Anyway. One of my first of rations was four episodes in. There's a very serious subplot about these Jewish people and the husbands were fixing dues, actually. I was going to say this Jewish family. Basically, the husbands refusing his wife, a get and then like Tony soprano has to go in. And basically like do what you do to get guys to give get which is like the Jewish writ of divorce. And I was thinking I'm like, no one told me to watch this show. But I thought it was Italian Americans who are in the mafia, and it's going to be about that you made it this far in the Jewish world wide media conspiracy. And no one told you about the episode where they have to enlist the mob to get again. But you also haven't read in Frank. So we can all surprise you. But the thing I was thinking about is like because obviously talion Americans were very upset at the beginning of this series that basically purported to show talion Americans in pretty bad light. Right. Where associations with mafia things like that. Obviously a nuanced portrait. And it kind of made me think about that. It was so long ago. But I'm sure it was a very very big thing that the community talked about a lot. And it kind of reminded me we're like also upset about MRs Mazel. And they know it's not portraying mobsters. But people are like that that surf exactly are complained was like that is not kosher meat and the bar scene. Their companies like they kill people now like that tissue above Fasi and lasted seventy two hours. That is not how long tissue Bob is. And it's like, you know, I think it puts these melody at a reform temple in nineteen six Dono law had not been done to that. Tune. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Anyway. So it gave me some perspective, which I liked it's nice. When ethnic groups get a TV show too. Yeah. Brings us all together. This all together, we all one time. I never really connected with a surprise. You know, how like when doctors probably don't like to go home and wash like doctor shows on TV like if your dad's a Bank robber. Why would you watch sopranos like what is this show about it's family and crime? It's like, nah, I'm watching. Everybody loves Raymond. I'm happy. So nothing's going on with you, except you're not identifying with apprentice, what we have we have we have a host of things as ever my my older daughter lily is about to have her sitter ceremony. Which sounds? Yeah. Oh. What do these? Shea knows of sitters ceremonies. On sitter ceremony had one earlier today. She's putting like a main shift karaoke show with her brother on Sunday. And she's like, I think this to songs the first is party in the USA by Miley. Cyrus? The second is other nice photography Getty, look at and I'm like, and that is why I'm paying all my money to Jewish schools, totally fine with it also gave her life. No, it's a it's a ceremony by which you you accept the Torah. If they also gave you a flag in a gun I would consider educational complete plates. Elliot's actually 'cause you don't watch the sopranos really should Elian Israel again to close. My my daughter who's ten is is that the one of my five children's at Jewish day school. And she in fact has a Yod ceremony coming up where they they they get their yards and they have to choose like a couple lines of Braschi, and they'll but speaking of daughters and major eeking daughters and major events the bought mitzvah is nigh. The mitzvah Rebecca's batmans says coming up, and it's it's been very moving. I mean, she's extraordinarily. She's like been ready for six months now. And if she's over ready, and she, but, you know, one of one of I think our families goals was this is something that you think about in our audience. I'm sure was how to keep it about Judaism braid. You know, the great degrade joke. Like what's the theme of your daughters about mitzvah Judaism? I think we should I think we should kind of find a new way of doing bar mitzvahs leave combined like all no, I'm serious about this. You might like all of the things Jews love it should be basically preceded by a standardized test. You you take test about Judaism. And then your score determines what kind of part you get to have. So if you've got one hundred you get like sushi stations dancers, like whatever you aren't if coke and Pepsi, if you got like, you know, fifty forty five kid Asian the record of the show. You know, you got you got ten or fifteen you got to kind of like a temporary tattoo of T Kuno Lomb on this. Because I'd imagine it like, a sorting hat. Or or redo Griffin door and. But I know writing on the train, you know, to hear you were you're working in a very special document radio working on the doing the program. I was doing the program and because Rebecca did see and I have to say the Batman's we were at last weekend was was so wonderful. This girl was so good. So amazing lane torso beautifully gives such good Davar Torah. And there was a wonderful program as these things that really explained a lot of things to people who might not know stuff. And Rebecca said to me because I said to her afterwards. Is there anything you learned from that that you want at your bought myths fence, she said, I really liked the program because it really explains stuff to people, even you know, of course, perhaps, especially Jews who don't know what's going on because there and she said dad, would you make I don't have any time. Would you make a program? So I was on the track today. And it is interesting thinking, what are the elements of this event that you want to explain like if you have if you're taking any enough by eleven page and folding in half and making a four page program, and you'll only have so many a few clip arts. So there's not that much as what is the. Key. Like, you tell them what Mustafa because he'll does anyone and they will assume it's true. It's amazing power. You'll be like are angry desert. God demands we wear the sweatpants at sundown, whatever I think, I saw this on Broadway. It's kind of true. It is a kind of awesome sets of power of like if I tell them. This is Judaism. This is Judaism. Right. I am. I am the rabbi for this. So this is the special Washington DC edition of news of the Jews. Apparently, they moved a synagogue in Washington not long ago. Apparently, it was one hundred forty three year old two hundred seventy three ton brick synagogue that was originally oddest Israel. They rolled it down, gee street and one one whole block. And it was its third move since it was first constructed in eighteen seventy six Ulysses s grant presided over its dedication and some the original congregation in one thousand nine hundred eight decamp to become six than ice in a Gog. And this one has done a lot of different stuff. It was it was a black church. It was a Greek Orthodox church. It was a barber shop. It was a barbecue restaurant. It was it was a tray restaurant for a while. And then a coffee shops they had to actually move. That's how you cough or a barbecue joint. You just move it. What are they going to do with it? Now does anyone know museum? I'm not like for it to be like a rolling museum like kind of like a food truck. He really imagined. Discussion rabbi, you know, how nobody comes to synagogue anymore. What if? Although I bet you that having expelled the Jews. Ulysses grant would be very pleased to know that you cannot expel entire synagogues in tires. God does his work for him. Speaking of Jews Senator Ted Cruz, apparently. Yeah. Since we're in DC are trying to keep it relevant. Ted Cruz has a beard now, I don't know if you've been on Twitter lately, but has a beard the right bit over a group. Eared Al Gore had a beard for awhile now. Ted Cruz says that they all the Tri factor. They all do it. He said he tweeted on he tweeted that his friend in Israel, who's studying at a yeshiva said that a rabbi said it gives cruise Tom eunuch and rabbinic look and presence that will put the fear of the Lord into Israel's enemies and promote Middle East peace. So basically Ted Cruz is beard is going to solve the whole thing. Jared Kushner can't do Ted Cruz beer. Ted Cruz is facial hair can do actually it's kind of good like it takes someone soup really unlikable to actually bring people like to people's together. Like, the one thing we can all agree on is what does this deal with a with a code is like is Ted Cruz sitting at home thinking like how can I get people to fear be more? Maybe a beer. How do I get the rabbi vote the Israeli rabbi vote we are soon going to bring out our Jew of the week? But before we do we have an exciting announcement announcements Tabah magazine, which is where we work, which is magazine that produces this podcast. We have a book coming out. It's called the one hundred most Jewish foods a highly debatable list, and it comes out next month. Just in time for Passover, and we are all we're all part of it. Our guest Michael Tweedie wrote and amazing entry for it. And there's there's really great contributors Michael Solomon of Gail Simmons. Josh Molina writing about everything from filter fish to Persian rice and Yemenite chicken, Bob, ensembles, everything and things you hate to the book comes out March nineteenth. But we want you to preorder your so you'll have yours March nineteenth, and we are sort of incentivizing that by doing a giveaway. So if you buy if you preorder the book, and then you forward that receipt doesn't have to be like the actual credit. We don't need your credit card. Over to this Email, which is it's one hundred foods one zero zero foods at tablet, MAG dot com. You'll be entered to win one of five gift certificates to Russ and daughters, and they ship all over the country. So like that is some that is hilarious a hundred and fifty dollars fifty dollars. And we're going to be putting this out there just to you know, I'm getting hungry thinking about it. But that's in the in the locks coma for like a week. Yeah. You can just get. So you can get that on Amazon everywhere, your local politics, or yes, I guess Kramer, can preorder in-store as well. So we're really excited about that. Thank you guys. A lot of you longtime listeners to the podcast have heard me talk a little bit here. And there about my connection to the wonderful. Rabbi Sharon, Cohen NFL. She's this extraordinary rabbi who performed my wedding to sit thirteen years ago. And in some senses is really is. My rob is like my the person I would turn to most for Jewish spiritual advice it so happens. Just so happens that she is the newly appointed president of Hebrew college. Which is a pluralistic nondenominational rabbinical school in greater Boston in Newton, and that's the place, and I said it before and I would say it again, that's the place where if I were ever going to go for ordination where I would go, and I'm encouraging those of you who think you might have a calling to look into Hebrew college. They happen to now be one of our sponsors. And I couldn't when this when I found out that they were underwriting unorthodox, I was so moved because I don't even think they knew about my connection to rabbi Sharon Cohen NFL. When when this relationship was started with them as a as a sponsor, look there's a lot of broken as in the world. And a lot of our listeners are the kind of people who are asking themselves. How can I give back? You know, who you are? If you're one of those people who thought maybe I have a calling to be a pastor to be a clergy person to be a rabbi, you know, who you are the rest of you forget about it. But if you're one of those people if you think that you might have that calling and you're looking for the place to to teach you how to creatively engage with Jewish tradition as inspiring voice for helping us live in and he'll broken world. Then I think that Hebrew college rabbinical school, maybe for you there graduates have a ninety five percent job placement rate. They serve across North America. And beyond. They were just pulpit leaders teachers Hilo professionals pastors social activist community organizers, and the faculty really are made up of these scholars and visionaries who can take you where you need to go. I myself have lectured there several times it really is. It's the only rabbinical school with which I feel a close connection. No disrespect to the others. But I'm just telling you about that for me. So look they're currently accepting applications if this intrigues you. Why not go to Hebrew, college dot EDU to find out more and contact the school and everyone who visits will receive a copy of rabbi, Sharon, Cohen, NFL speech. The beginning of service, which is a moving and inspiring reflection on the longing to live a life that matters and how to discern particular work. Look, no harm no foul. If you think this might be for you. Try it out investigate Hebrew, college dot EDU slash unorthodox. Michael Tweedie is a writer, scholar and historian a food culture. His 2017 seventeen book the cooking gene won a James beard award. And he contributed one of the most interesting entries to our one hundred most Jewish foods book, it's CIA. And I'll let him tell you all about it. Welcome michael. The job, but Shaw, Jewish soul food, you tell us what it is. Pettah is. How do you know, what's good? When you have to think like thirty seconds before telling you what P apostrophe get the apostrophe T C H A. Is an excuse eat, garlic. It's literally what happens when you take a cow's foot and boil it to death, and then you put as much onion and garlic as possible, by the way, being a former Hebrew schoolteacher fourteen years. Temple Beth Amee and temple shallow here in the DC area. Never teach seventh grade boys the Yiddish word for garlic. Onion. Sorry civilised. So you might don't we learned today about civilised neighbors school? You learn what okay. Do you like pachinko I've had it once? But you know, what for me, you know, they're they're these they're these three or four like for digital statal foods that I just don't vibe with one of which is not really your steady food. It's gonna after Stuttle food, and that's kind of Dr Brown's celery. Like, I am a trillion percent with you there who thought same here. Did that become a thing? Take it back. Yeah. What about like diet cherry? Karen's potato salad. Nah. Nah. Got ready to note. Agreed. Agreed. So that that in cookeville took me a long time to I was like why is it kogo had to get used to put more good? And I was like, okay kogo is like Ashkenazi, Jews macaroni and cheese. But without the stuff in it. Cream cheese? Yeah. Which the us is not a cheese. So it's like, okay. So the rationalize these foods in my brain. But just like filter fish for me as an excuse to eat horseradish. No other purpose. You hit it by Michigan hospital. Same thing, which is excuse to eat, garlic and onions civilised. So we're definitely be back to the food. But before before we do what what kind of Hebrew school teacher. Were you crazy one? I taught orthodox conservative reform Reconstructionist and independent how they're all in one week. Keep us regard. No, keep keep black hat all of them. This is the premise of the next Adam Sandler comedy to win one hundred million dollars each every kind of. That life. And I was a lot of my students were about eighty percent of my students. I was the only teacher of color they ever had. I was the only black male teacher almost all of my students ever had in or out of Hebrew school. And the only figure thirty of call they ever saw synagogue. So I take great pride in that. Now, all my kids are almost I think my last group is grown. You know, it's not every day. You get to make black end Jewish history by you know, you know, that your kids had an experience, and it was always my favorite thing by the by the fifth or sixth year, the kids were like when they had smartphones. Finally, they can take a picture with you and something exotic says, and they were like, no, no, no some kid at school said there. No, black Jews one of my teachers, black Jewish. So we come in all colors, and that was very proud of that because already seeing that us and supposed to them in you. That's our that's so amazing. But that I imagine puts like an immense amount of pressure on you, right? Because, you know, first time you walk into that class. You're like, I I need to educate these kids about a whole lot more than just what the curriculum. And that's something that I think that a lot of other teachers who are taught with it took them years to understand that. That when I walked into a classroom, and it was a Trayvon Martin situation, or there was some political situation and some other nonsense going on a flash point. I had to answer for that in highly right segregated area. Call the DMV. So my students will often would test my boundaries. But also kind of try to figure out what does being black mean to you? And the the best lesson of all was his lesson did on what does it look like? And I asked him. I said why do I look like this? The kids said, well, your ancestors were in Africa, and they were in the sun too long and they had a tan. What does it and there's a one young lady she's in college. Now, she had red hair and blue eyes. She said, I said do people think you're Jewish. She says nothing I'm Irish. And I said, I don't know what that means. Because both of my parents, come from Russian Lithuanian Jews. I don't know what that means. And I think it's not just me. And so I ask them who's the most Jewish person. There was looking person in the room. And they really mean it was it was kind of evil, right? And so looking around the room. So I explain to them. No, I'm African American. I'm of mixed heritage. Not everybody looks like me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're all different. We all know what our face looks like a phenotype is. You know, what we are inside is? What means was? What's keeps the same win? This maintained our spiritual identity. So for me having those conversations I hope. Leads to people who walk into a jury or voting booth or witness an incident involving law enforcement, and we have a different perspective than someone who did not have an encounter with a teacher who could guide them a little bit and say, wait a minute. This had other half lives and education. But you know, what from a from a from another perspective. I think a lot of people who converted Judaism, no matter what the background I have Jewish ancestry. But that's not how lock right? I think for me. The biggest thing was people who tried to put on put imposter syndrome on me. Oh, I lost that real quick. They kind of like m I am I not because I taught a thousand Jewish kids. I saved a thousand Jewish souls from going somewhere else. And I talked to my reform K the same way talked about worth it is kids. And I said, it doesn't matter father's Jewish mother's Jewish you this this. We're all one mish Boca. It doesn't matter. I taught my girls had put onto filling. I taught my boys be putting on a keep doesn't make you any less more Jewish. I taught them if anybody ever questions or Jewish daddy. You tell them to take it up with Hitler. Get in their face get in their face and tell them that you would have been the same boat. So we're one people what how our customs what food we put on tables, whether or not we wear certain garb means nothing if the basis of being Jewish isn't how we believe in act towards each other and fellow human being that's what a Jew is Mike. I can't tell you how much I admire conviction. But I'd be lying. If I said that the thing that I admire most about you is that you won the one award that I considered worth winning in this world. Like, if you ask me, I don't care about Oscars Emmy's gonna means you want to beard award, man. Look I wanted. I I want to and let me tell you about that award. Why I'm gonna tell you why I'm bragging about their to the to hold. When we pitched this book too. When the biggest publishers in the food world, and I've just food world. But the big companies, and I remember this awful day. My mom had passed away. A couple of months before I was on my first big phone call. I was on the side of the road and North Carolina, which I often, I am and. They were like the cooking. Gene is all about me, tracing, my African American roots through food, and there's a huge part of it that involves being Jewish because I I told him I said, I'm black. I'm jewish. I'm gay. Oh, my and, you know, bears United, and I wanna make sure that you understand that. I'm like, I'm like a brain at Hala all those pieces have to work together. If you can't separate one out to the other. May got fit and the editor told me, I'm sorry. But unless you can extract the Judaism from this book, we can't work with you. And I said what's your problem, of course, is to this to ju sitting in the room in New York, right telling me this, right? And they're telling me this because it was less Jewish than the Jewish editor 's York City, and it's like, I got toll was America's not ready for you. And I told them immediately America's only country where impossible so unless. So have my sandy Colfax moment. They literally told my my agent. I couldn't be seen in public. We're gonna keep. Right. So I was so glad and furnace. They tell the same thing to me. Maybe I was so glad when I got up an F stage the first time, and they said you won for best food writing. And I got the smell, and if I saw him sitting audience, I think finding what your eyes then the. And then the second time it was like book of the year. It was like first black person to first black American to win this war. Made history in one night. And I said the Shahaki on new from this day JR. We should tell our listeners the James beard award is like the biggest thing in the food world for restaurants for writers for things like call it the Oskar food writing would insult food writing. So the cooking Gina's is out and actually people here Ken by it. They can't we mean showed you will buy it on your way out. You have to pass it. And how are you not gonna buy it at this point? But still there's another book coming out, right soul. So kosher soul. What what journey is that coaching soul is about learning and cooking? My favorite Yiddish word is fresh from kite, which means you're Jewish to your stomach your religious to your stomach second only to civilize you'll miss. After you get your civilised, you have to in other words, you have to you your your religiously dedicated to the cycle of Jewish food, and for me, I started out as a food anthropologist culinary story. And and that drew me into Judaism. And so learning goes learning and teaching go hand like genealogy was a late motif with this book that search the difficult search for Africa and African American roots? But this one is all about how do you learn to be Jewish through food? And how do you teach about Judaism through food? How do you find your niche and identity Judaism when you're not born into a Jewish community? She had these very deep, weird spiritual links. Let are there. I mean, just to play devil's advocate this, and this is a question we deal with on the podcast a lot, right? Some of our listeners will hear that and say, but they'll say, but we don't want Judaism reduced to food. In other words, we have a lot of Jews out. There right now who were saying my Jewishness is like lepers lender's bagels and not just bagels like bad frozen prepackaged bagels, like new haven's gift to the world lender's bagels. Right. And of course, I don't saying the way I don't want black debut reduced to. Greetings from chicken. Right. Right. But I do understand this. I understand that when I learned about Heaney's, which are, you know, the praise of of women get speaking women over the hollow, and the kogo I this is this is like the most amazing stuff, and then food is also weighing into other parts of Dimity. For example. There's a rabbi during the middle ages who says who are at a poem called. Why has not made me a woman? And half the poems about food, but it's a poem about a male rabbi who wishes God had made him a girl. So that he could cook. So that he could cook and be with his husband and observe the feminine means vote. So we think of the team LGBT is being recent. This goes back centuries. But you know, that in his head was remarkable sadness. Then every time he looked those sacred foods. He was reminded that something was off with him. But he wished you could you know, I 'cause I'm a queer person. Right. So I can identify with that and go oh my God. And so when you make the food that people have made for generations each and every single time when you're conscious of it, you get this little bit of spark of immortality. And also this bit of you know, sadness because you know, inevitably will change. So if you could pick one food one Jewish food that really kind of sparked your your soul that you really felt kind of like moved by Gribben, this really also my God at the food. You can only once in a decade. I mean, literally, I mean, it is some serious just we're not going to any scrap go we're gonna turn we're gonna turn trash into gold. We're gonna make goose fat. Goose get into the delicious thing ever, you describe what governess is or ribbons is poultry skin fried and schmaltz. Meet see below balists meet Feffer mid solace. Schmucks? The best. I mean, this is you make ribbons once in a while. I the only place I've ever seen it the second avenue deli gives you the little different thing. I ever heard about grubbers. So of course, I attract other Jews interesting backgrounds, and it was having Seder with this orthodox family who was Mexican American, but they're people came from eastern Europe to Mexico three generations ago. And so she was describing things she had made Molay with the Pesach Turkey would slow mazing. And then there was like she described talk ethos filled with Grivas. Why don't wait? There's your truck ribbon. It's taco food tread is. Let's quit right now. Pick that synagogue and like start selling Gribben this out of it. I mean. That just sounds. According to your Instagram you've been traveling a lot you've been all over you've been Italy Ghana Italy. I got engaged in Italy. Congratulations. In venice. I did it right in Venice on the Grand Canal. Okay. Not messing around what would the wedding. I mean what what do you define cord? Now. You know, what the weird part was. We ran into a season. Sorry in Rome for some reason that guy loves it. And I was like I was like, hey, sorry. Do you want to come to a Jewish semi Methodist gay racial wedding? 'cause like show. Sounds great. But it was like joking with you all backstage about dating, you know, when I was when I had shake its appeal. Jewish boys. Loved me to death the minute. The key by went on. So I understand like. Nope. It was not trying to have it gets the resistance to making mom too happy. See, right, right. I was opposed to scare them. All that's right. You're happy. That's exactly you're Roddick's is in scaring, not pleasing her. Oh the minute. Oh, they say, oh, he's Jewish Jewish. Pretty he's black to. Oh my God. This is gonna be so great. So racist the question. I mean that also raises the question. I know there's been a big I'm not on social media. But I have social media minions who inform me what's on social media. They send me handwritten parchment letters in the mail that say what's been on Twitter. Lately is this and my understanding is there's been a lot. I mean, one of the big debates of the past. I don't know six months years has been the question of you know, are Jews white and that whole question and do they have to they have minority privilege. Do they have what's the intersection outy Valence of being Jewish etc? I mean, do you you surely get called on to talk about that. I tried to avoid possible. I'll tell you why I want to live, by example. I'm gonna write about some of these things and coaches all but not a lot. Because really not my thesis. But I have to I have to talk about it. Right. Because otherwise, I don't get called for interviews. NPR loves her brother. We call you for so, but but I will say this much couple of things number one. Having become more engaged with other Jesus. Co in the past five years and having spent a long period of time being being the only reason the kogo in the room. I you got that. Right. Fan yourself now. I have to say I have to say that one of the modern Judaism in struggled with the role of women. If this is still a gr going growing and going conversation, right? It hasn't stopped and that's good because give me other tradition. Judaism is nothing the Jewish people doing without its mothers women as wives daughters. It's feminine presence. We've started to do with LGBT issues. Why are we so afraid to talk about race raises an illusion? I realized that it's not real race is something that was put on people to make them into a commodity. I get that racist total illusion. It's not scientific we are all one human race indivisible. But. You know, I had a number of times when as a teacher I had to school my kids on that's not cool. And don't you understand that? And they didn't get it. And I had to do over and over again till they finally got it to talk about. And like I said earlier a lot of my fellow teachers didn't realize I had that extra burden. I mean, I forgotten six came to school right in the metro bus pass mcmansions. I was only teaching wrote a bus from my poor neighborhood to the show. They didn't understand how come you? Don't have a car. How come you didn't do this? Okay. What's wrong with you that she didn't attain them like, okay? Wait a minute. Let's break this now. And so for me, you know, we teach our kids that is our us. We not win those Opie and Jews when we were in Ethiopia, you know, you've succeeded when your kids go when we were in China. Taking ownership of that community and saying they're part of us. The second part is everybody is intersectional and multicultural everybody in them room is intersectional and multicultural y'all ain't been the same fifteen hundred. Note. We've we're that's what being an American is. And if you are not intersectional multicultural, you're not trying very hard to be an American or to be a modern person. Let's get that straight. So we have to deal with this. Because this is this is our community against white supremacy. And that goes both ways. So we are unified in this. And I mean, I know we have different perspectives. And I know this can get people, you know, very enraged. But at the same point in time, imagine what it's like being a Jew of color. You're asked to represent both you people you're asked to hold your head up. And sometimes he on both sides drag you absolutely crazy, and they make you feel like you're not you don't belong anywhere who stands up for us. So that if if nothing else, let's try to solve that problem. I'm curious. Stephanie. Absolutely. You're a tough person to interview because everyone claps after everything you say. Stephanie just just mentioned, you know, the travel all around the world. I'm curious how I understand. How all these complexities. I think I could begin to wrap my head around. How all these complexities might play out here, which is very difficult on its own term. Right. But what happens when you get to say Italy? And be like, oh, hey, I'm well, then he's got to seize sorry as a felony. I'm a job color, who's gay this any of this played very differently going to west Africa, which I'm going back to March because really like, especially synagogue, Senegal was like made me feel cool about my knitting because I'm wearing genie. I may which is. Good name proverb. God is everywhere next to my gay f. But with my keep on rate. It's all of them are they but in synagogue, you would see a Muslim family, a Muslim Muslim has been Christian wave Islamic stuff Christian stuff, but also ju ju in every single room. So this kind of it made me feel comfortable with the fact that black spirituality for lack of a better term is very different because we're we it's almost like carrying around a key chain with a lot of keys on it. When I was going work. That's how my grandmother lived. And that's how they live in the continent. And so I feel much more comfortable about the fact that sometimes, you know, my kids would joke with me and say, Mr. what he can become the first black Jewish preacher. And I'm cool with that. Because that means that I am a thank to the culture. I come from where you take everything and make it work two final questions of all. When can we expect the next book how how far along coach your soul? Well, as soon as the beard thing happened like it went from being a lot about an hour to when can you push out a new book? Right. So hopefully Bizrate sham God when the creek don't rise. See that blend right there. And by the way, I'm glad that you didn't mention Lindsey Graham's as beard. Oh lindsey. He's so cute it on you. Did you know we got one? But it's Hanukkah of next year of this year Hannukah two thousand nineteen. Yup. Are we going to hold you to that? Final question. You're going to hang and sign copies of this book. Absolute like, let's thank you. From the point. So as regular listeners know Jay chef has been a fabulous new sponsor, and as part of that live show in DC that you're listening to right now, they actually give away free shebab dinner boxes to three lucky people in the audience and the audience went nuts. You are going to go nuts for to especially when you see how much family time. Jay, chef frees up for other things we really wanna talk a little bit about how Jay shop helps. You carve out family time? Everyone is overworked overstressed, but you wanna be with your boo with your loved one with your spouse with partner with your kids. And that means maybe you don't want to spend Sunday going to the kosher market or the supermarket or waiting for some expensive delivery at home. There is a better way. Jay, chef is a home delivery service with kosher food, delivering all the ingredients you need to cook. Delicious, kosher recipes without slapping to the market, you can choose meat fish chicken or vegetarian meal kits customized to your family size is even a special Chabad dinner, Kip for when you're having the homeless book over chef Gabriel. Saul is phonetically about service. He's always available to. You personally with meals, selection and could salt about ingredients and preparation the meal kits are delivered fresh to your door. You order on Tuesday. You'll have delivery by Thursday, and they delivered the whole United States except the west coast. No, long term commitment. No delivery charge. Jay, chef also makes a wonderful gift for anyone who has trouble getting to the store like your grandparents or the parents of newborns. So listen spend time cooking with your kids with your family. Not dragging them around. Huda J chef dot com slash unorthodox. That's J C H E F dot com slash unorthodox. And get thirty percent off your first order by using the code unorthodox thirty you will be licking your lips and thanking it's. Either nurse ICU QR. Join this episode. This is Mark Oppenheimer here with my co host deputy, Nick. Hi, hey, so I personally think this was one of the best live shows in the history of our show. And maybe the history of all podcast. It was amazing. It was so good and so fun, so fun. But before we get back into it. I just wanted to let everyone out there know that if you like what you hear you're in luck because we have more live shows coming up in the next few weeks. Stephanie our first Los Angeles Friday February. I what are we doing in LA doing special couple, lots about life show at dot shallow on lesson boulevard? That's on the west side for all you LA folks who have asked the first question and asks is it on the east side of the west side? And we have some amazing guest. We have Lauren Miller Rogan who is a writer director actor her latest movie like father, which starred Kristen bell, and Kelsey grammer and his Netflix, and she also promotes Alzheimer's wariness and research with her Larry for charity organization are gentle the week is TV writer for shows. Lack Jonathan Groff who has also worked on scrubs. How I met your mother late night with Conan O'Brien where he was the head writer for more than four hundred episodes. I was just so excited to learn that he was a gentile and actually are gentile of the week. Because as we've learned you never know, you think you've got a gentle and the all ways turn out Jewish anyway. But this guy real gentle, we have too late a friend gentile. And we also have Persian Jewish social entrepreneur, Rachel, sue Mak. Who is amazing? She's on this Forbes thirty under thirty list and her swipe out hunger organization helps fight hunger on campus. Let's suits donate unused food point swipes to students in need, and she's just great. And I'm so excited to have her as well. So that's three great guests. It's going to be so great spirited couple of cheval. And then a live show afterwards to get tickets bit dot L Y, slashed you live LA. That's bit dot L wise, you live LA. And so we will be doing a couple of about service before the live show. You are welcome to join for that. Also have on word from the rabbi that you will still be allowed in the show. If you don't make it to the service, so whatever works for you. And then we'll be heading up the coast the next day to Seattle don't tell anyone that we're skipping that more than berry seconds Saturday evening. We will be at the straw JC for a live show with Dan savage, the savage love cast, one of our favorite podcasts. And Stephanie who else is joining us. We have rabbi will Berkovitz he is from the Jewish family services, and formerly of the hill organization, and so he's sort of big Macher with Jewish life in the Seattle area. We're excited about that too. That's going to be great. We already have a bunch of questions for damn that have come in through Email through Facebook. Listen, if you wanna get your question to Dan, it's not too late. You can send it to unorthodox tablet, MAG dot com. Put savage love in the subject line. We will anonymous it for you. You can also call our listener line nine one four five seven four eight six nine we will put a weird filter over your voice. So that nobody knows it's you lasting. If people want to get tickets for that show. Stephanie, how can they do it dot L Y slash? You owe live Seattle, and if you don't live there, but no someone who does tell them to come tell them. They cannot miss an unorthodox live show because they are very fun. Very fun. Back to our live show from Washington. Hebrew, congregation with the association of reform Jewish educators, or as we call them. Shit. Our gentile of the week is Representative Katie porter of the California forty fifth. She's a member of the newly democratic majoritarian house and part of. And part of the record breaking one hundred two women elected to congress in the two thousand eighteen Turbe elections. She had to win a grueling primary, and then one of the longest counts of the year before she was certified as the winner. She was born in Iowa she passed through New Haven. I got to know her twenty five years ago, we're through she's here thrown our gentile. The week is Katie porter. So what do we call you? Congresswoman congresswoman. Does that sound that still sound exciting to you? Yeah. Still someone's exciting. It took me a little bit to get used to it. But that I remembered when I was younger sterner on my first night before I went to teach. I was a law professor. And I remember my mother asking me, are you gonna make your students? Call you professor. And I said only if they want me to insert. I thought like what is happened to the fire in the belly? Like, I need to kind of up my game again. So on that. I should we not call someone Representative. So and so you can call Representative, okay. Congresswoman or Representative. Yeah. And some people go with congress member as opposed to congresswoman. So that's something I've been to go with a gender non gender term. So and so would it be congressman porter? Like if I say that. So I recently was reading up on this because I having a ceremonial swearing in my district, and I was trying to figure out what my invitation to my own events should say. And so you would address an envelope. It's like a judge. She would address the envelope. Honorable which I find funny the honorable Katie porter. And then when you speak to me, it's like judge so and so so it's congress member, Katie or congress, Katie you, really I will say there are two katie's in congress, your fellow Californian, Katie hill. And even though there's like a million Bob's and million. Mike's a million Joe's a million times in the all white dude's, nobody gets mixed up. My big moment of glory on January third the day. I was born in. See Pelosi is up at the dyas, and she singles me out, and she says, I just want to say happy birthday to congresswoman, Katie hill. And her children and Katie hill has no children and the leader speaker got a little confused, but she got it squared away. Because she has secret whispers who fix everything that she thinks. And so she she never very rarely makes these mistakes. So I am one of two katie's which AP. Yeah. This is fairly stressful for me because I had a friend who was low low down in the Obama administration who told me that you know, when you work for the president, even if you're his best deal. I give came up with them in Chicago. When in the presence of other people, you don't say Barack you say, Mr President. And I'm wondering are we on? You're at the congresswoman level, okay? I mean, I thought so I will tell you being market. I do go way way back, and it's I do find it. I was thinking I was on my way coming in that there is a bit of sort of interesting history. Not just to the fact that I know Mark because he was just one more person at Yale. One more ju- really Jewett Yale. Right, mark. I don't know if you remember this. But Mark was the first person who took me to the kosher kitchen and. I know when we went to the kosher kitchens. Keep my before you judge me that I am the gentile of the week. Jen toll gentile of the week as I tell you the story. So I grew up in Iowa a little clueless about Jewish culture. And so Mark invites meat to the kosher kitchen, and they are serving him burgers and Marcus like do you wanna hambur, and I was like, no what a cheeseburger at Merck said, we don't have cheeseburgers. And I was like are you out? I sorted the bachelor staff at the kosher kitchen, right? And then I went to get my milk, and there is no milk. And I was just deeply like confused. And then this is before you had Google right there to solve your problems. And so Mark kindly explain to me, the concept for the first time of kosher food, which is a concept that has been explained to me repeatedly by the JCC where my son went to preschool because when you're a mom, and you're a single working mom, and you're in a hurry. One day. I was like, oh, this is great. I have like a nutritious kind of thing. Not just going to put some crackers in yogurt. I'm gonna send my son to school with a big old piece of fried chicken mozzarella cheese, sticks through this all together. And of course, it comes back and you open. To really to shaming note that they they have a gentle shaming note. That's like kind of melded onto the the food that you've. Scrape the note off the food and the food out. So you were the first but not the last person. I tried to try new explain this. We will not shame you tonight. But I want to ask how your kids feel about this? Do they think it was cool being up there with you today like the embarrass like, what are they they understand just gonna guess kids? Never think their parents are cool. Right. What you're you're cool new. So I will tell you most touching moment of the entire campaign, and I was a candidate for not quite two years. So it was a very very long campaign. But the most touching moment was I allowed my oldest son. I chose my oldest son who just turned thirteen on Saturday to introduce me on election night. And at the time, I was taking the stage. We didn't think I had one wouldn't say we were sure I'd lost. But we didn't think I won a -sarily. And so the crowd is tens people are a little sad, they're uncertain and mice. Son gave my introduction. And I learned a couple of things from this one is I learned before you allow your child to introduce you make sure that he's not a better public speaker than you. So nice run had the crowd chanting. Luke, Luke, Luke, Luke, look like he brought down the house. And and then the second thing is at the very end. He said, you know, it's my pleasure to introduce my mom, my hero, Katie porter. And so the other lesson here is like make sure that you are not going to get teary at this big moment because so it was really great. So they had fun on the campaign. I do think a lot of candidates particularly candidates with young children. Maybe more men than women think that campaigning is a hardship. It's like something that your children endure. Right. And so it's it's really not. It was a family of for us. It was a family experience. So I took my. Kids to all kinds of campaign stuff, sometimes that worked out great like election night. My son did a great job. Sometimes it was funny. So I took my children to hear our California, governor gal, Gavin, Newsom and. There was a small room, and it was a public event just free and open to the public and my middle son kept raising his hand. And I kept like pulling and gaven himself has four kids and so given likes kids, and so like the second I was like, oh, no. And so Paul he calls on Paul and he says, yes, young, man. And Paul says, you're a lot better at this than my mom. Can you help her? Gavin who, of course, has been campaigning. Really, let's face it, all of Jerry Brown's eight-year governor term Gavin very kindly said. Well, you know, she's had I've had a little bit more practice that your mom, and your mom is pretty great. But I think my kids really had fun with the experience I will save it, particularly the shutdown and kind of the chaos that it's creating for this country, including for my own schedule. I have to call my kids tonight and tell them I'm not coming home necessarily and next week. I'm not necessarily going to be with them because we're rearranging. Thanks trying to get the government open. We're really trying everything we. To get the government open. But. You know, after I won my number saying to my kids. Well, you know, the reelect starts now. And we have to start working on twenty twenty and my son said what? I said, well, yeah. You know, it's over it's every two years, and my son said mom, maybe just wants like he's just he was floored by this idea of this perpetual campaign that is the house of representatives for better or worse. So now that you're here now that you're in congress. How are you hoping to make a difference? And we tell us a little bit about some of your your, great ideas. So we'll talk a little bit about what we are trying to do. And then kind of things that I personally want to work on. So the two bills that I'm very excited about that. I think we will pass in the house very soon as soon as we get the government open. We'll we'll move these bills forward. One is a voting rights campaign reform anti-corruption Bill. That is the so-called each are one. Right. So it's a little bit like when you play sport like, they're cool numbers. And h r one is the the number and so I'm really excited about that Bill. I think if we don't make real progress on some of these issues that's going to be hard to get people moving on other issues. So this a lot of us campaigned on. And I think this election was about restoring our faith in our democracy, and some of our institutions of government some of which are being badly tarnished. And so I think that's really exciting. And then I'm also really excited about the each are eight which is a gun violence prevention Bill. In it would institute mandatory national background checks, and so close some of the gun show loopholes some of those things so is there any chance the Democrats are going to cave on the border wall. I I'm not going to cave on the border wall. I say this to you as somebody who is about ninety miles from the Mexico United States border. I represent an area that tr- historically was formed Orange County was gonna populated by a lot of frankly, white people fleeing Los Angeles, but it's become a more diverse place. And I think there's just multiple reasons why it's the wrong thing to do. And I think one of the things that we've said is look worse security's important, but we're not going to discuss border security until he opens the government and we've given him lots of opportunity president lots of opportunities to do that. And so the goal is not the goal is to make investments in border security to make investments in our immigration system. But the physical wall for me is is off the table. It's a waste of taxpayer dollars. It sends the wrong signal. It's contrary to our. History as a country the best of our history. And they think it so I very much hope that we stand strong to stay stay for a minute on this partisan vibe. See the two time Republican incumbent in really one of the closest election right winning by think something like twelve thousand votes eventually in campaign that took a long time at account that took a longtime beyond us here. Like at some point. Did you really develop a strong animosity for your point of view? I just I just can't stand her. You know, it's interesting. I really didn't. So I feed it a Republican name Mimi Walters. It was one of few woman on woman racist, actually think that was a benefit in that people quit asking me what it was like to run as a woman. I don't I've never been to do. So I don't know. Like, I can't give you that perspective. Right. Like, and so I think there was less talk about what does it mean to be a woman and more on the issues? I think it was after I was elected and begin to understand. Some of the tools that those of us in congress have to help our constituents and some of the tools that those of us have to help people that I began to become even more disappointed kind of in that Representative because it became clear to me that she had not used a lot of those tools. So in terms of case workers and in terms of engaging the public so she never had a town hall. She never had a public meeting. I was in a room like this seven hundred people during my primary we were asked to raise their hands. If we'd ever seen Mimi Walters in person, I was the only one of the five candidates who had I saw her at a Memorial Day event where she was giving the pledge of allegiance and I rushed right up to her. And I was like Representative Mimi Walters, it's Katie border, and she did not share my enthusiasm. And she literally like turned on her heel and kind of fled. So she it was, but it was grueling. It was a hard race. But I don't think I ever developed a personal animosity, partly never. Met her. And so I was running more against an idea that I was against an actual person. And I think that was a reflection of her weakness as a Representative so to day once the government, hopefully soon gets up and running what would your what is your schedule. Like how much are you in California? How much are you here? And how does how does that play into your calculus, especially with your children? So this is something that we're talking a lot about right now sort of what does it mean to do the work of representing the American people? And I think one of the things that we need to do is help the American people understand what we do when we're home districts, and so I think the perception is that we're in Washington, we're working, and we're in our home districts were at home. But we're actually we have two offices at least one in Washington, and at least one or more on the district, and that time in district is really really important. And so we're there's kind of a balanced going back and forth on how much time should we spend in our districts, and I think the shutdown is really driving this. Home. So should we stay here all week? And wait. Wait and hope that the Senate does something or should we go home and listen to the voices of those who are being hurt by this shutdown? Right. And so which which one is the better use of our time, which one helps convey how important this is. And so I think right now, we kind of have the traditional calendar it's roughly three weeks in DC. And I go home every all the time because I have three kids and nobody else wants to take care of them. So what's your airline, and how are your miles? So that is really it's funny. You mentioned that because just today I said to my staffer she said, you know, ma'am, what what she calls me. I'm it's really cute, and my son is picked this up. And I find it so endearing and my teenage son or styles on your son. Yes. Yes. It's like the best. She kids. Yeah. And so she said, which of these fights would you like, and I just said like, I we are we not communicating. It was kind of like when you're having this like do we need to break up conversation. I was like. I don't fly United. All you keep doing is giving the United flights. Is there? A problem with American Airlines. Are they like worse? I mean, they all seem equally bad to me. Right. I think about airlines credit card companies in cable companies. It's like just choose one because they're all bad. And so you will be dissatisfied. And so right now, I would tell you that. I'm I'm in coach, I'm in the middle Zeba, if you're listening about politicians by the exact exactly and so yeah, no. It's it's it's just struggling along. With American America picked American because they serve diet Dr Pepper, just so listen, you've never been identified the week before except at the coach the coach. And tell of the year. But one of the privileges bestowed on the dente of the week is the opportunity to ask internationally recognized panel Jewish experts anything you want about Judaism. Now, look you had for years at Yale in three years of Harvard law to ask a lot of Jews a lot of questions. So I don't imagine. I don't imagine there's much that's gone unanswered. But is there anything still just sticking your crying? Don't understand about us. Our people our faith our habits. Okay. I have two questions. So that okay. So very just congresswoman so it is very Jewish is it's very Jewish. So my first question is about this upcoming holiday, which is I think kind of not a huge one but two shot. Right. And so why are you having your Arbor day in the dead of winter? So what are you supposed to do? Like, why not have your Arbor gay say in the spring or the fall like? Normal people. I actually would like can I throw this to RJ? One one of two parts. It's why why give us a what is too much about? And then also how you make it relevant. When it's in the middle of winter. Our clamper. Like you own to chevette with your kids like who just who is who's the Queen valley? Gingrich. Okay. We'll get to write up here in the front, Josh. Although it is colder in Israel right now than in the springtime, the first trees in Israel are just barely getting their buds and the tree that does it. I was the almond tree the Katya, and it's happening. Really soon. All right. So SU there you go do what should we be doing for to about in the winter? We should be knowledge in that. We have an earth that gives us trees every year that gives us buds and flowers and fruit and lots of good things. And that and that we're lucky that each year, we have this, and we should be saying thank you for all of it. There we go when the almond tree starts budding. Interestingly according to the mission that we have four New Year's doing the year. There's the first of Nissan, which is New Year's for kings and rulers the first of which is the new year for beasts the first of Tishreen, which is a new year for all of recorded history and time and the fifteenth of which is new year for trees. Get your money's worth. You should by the way legislate that calendar to make you know for everyone totally Collinet. So somebody other question is I've had the chance to participate in ten lots of Jewish services as a candidate, which I've really really enjoyed. But Orange County as you may know, also the home of several very large evangelical Christian churches, including Mariner's church and saddleback church and the crystal cathedral back on the day and some of those and so prevent crystal cathedral. It really is like a a folk crystal cathedral, and so production value is really important at these churches. So my question is. Could the beam unlike burst open so that the rabbi could spring kind of onto the stage with his microphone, you've touched a sensitive subject. So I asked like is there a green room where I can like burst through there won't touch the schools or anything. But I just think it'd be so very cool robes back there that we almost put onto out, but. But that felt sacrilegious. Josh you have answered to that my kids just watched raiders of the lost our last night. And you got to be careful with what you open. Take this one. Yeah. The production value. Let's let's put it this way. No, one approaches the evangelical Christians in terms of production values. I mean, they're in our start to finish. They've got a rock band on stage. They've got really good PowerPoint. They have great merch. Yeah. Yeah. Great merch, and they have the food courts. I mean, you've been to these megachurches where you've got your McDonald's. You've got your chick fillet, then you've got your other chick fillet. And then that's the Chick-fil-A. You don't go there Chick-fil-A. And you know, the reality is we are as simple peasants people. And you know, we've got we've we've got some books on scroll, and you know, in another couple thousand years, we'll hope to approach we'll hope to approach that. But it's a fair question. I don't what's up. I hope we don't. Yeah. This is close to like megachurches. I wanna get. Representative Porter if these fine you're going to hang out for a little while understanding schmooze. But if these fine people out there in podcast land one too, I bet you bet you have a Michael Twitter account as we're calling them. Now, do how can they follow you? So our official account is it's pretty clever. They're they're giving they give you your name. So it's at rep Katie porter and not out Rupp, Katie hill. We we read reporters someone's good squad on that though. How do they make sure nobody I don't make sure maybe altered in squad on at rep. Katie porter. I don't know. But I am thinking of buying some URL's dissipation of twenty twenty right? So one of the free tips reporter dot org. Yes. If any of you are thinking of running for office someday where you think your child's shows political promise, you should run out and buy. No, we there you are like Mark Oppenheimer dot com. But you should also by Mark Oppenheimer is a crook dot com. Mark often Heimer is not trustworthy. The dot com. Issued by all of the related how how proud you. Lock them down. So and then my other side is Katie porter. And so today, we just posted some videos talking about something I've been working on which is with regard to furloughed workers to make my first speech on the house floor, which was very fun. And is a little bit like being the gentile of the week. Like, you're not quite sure what this means. It seems like a little bit of a risk, but like one worth taking and one of the things that we did is I called on the nation's largest banks credit card issuers and mortgage companies to not charge any late fees any interest and do any negative credit reporting unpaid workers. And so I've been starting to have meetings with those bankers and trying to help that we talk about we're gonna make these workers whole by paying them back pay that really misses the fact that there's an interim hardship that you can never you can never put back the, insecurity and the anxiety and the fear that those families are feeling right now trying to make ends meet. And so trying to make sure that they're not digging themselves deeper in terms of late fees and credit card fees. So that's been my first my first project. Matt Representative Porter. Thank you so much for making your debut Genta of the week. My friends in the J crew in our listenership, I must tell you. I had a dilemma today I'm recording this on Tuesday morning. It's a snow day or rather a cold day for one of my daughters. Two hour delay day other daughters because the cold and all of this raises. The question is it a real workday for me if it is a real work day, then I shave if it's not a real workday. Then maybe I don't shave kind of decided it's not a real workday. And yet, here's the thing. I'm gonna shave anyway. And I'm gonna shave using the razor of our sponsor, Harry's. Why because I'm just kind of always happier when I'm smooth. I'm just I'm just really not myself. I just took a couple days off from shaving Sunday. And then Martin Luther King day time to get smooth. Again. Look Harry Chautari into your New Year's resolution somehow that resolution might be be smarter with personal finances and Harry's we'll save you money. It might be taking better physical care of herself. Looking more attractive? Let's say and Harry's we'll help you do that. But then it might also just be being smoother in two thousand nineteen because you really feel fresher you feel more. Like, I'm ready to face the day. Look, whatever your near. Resolution is I bet you can find a way that Harry's ties into it. And I bet you can go to harrys dot com slash unorthodox. You can get these razors that exist because the founders of Harry's were tired of overpaid for an inferior product. So they bought a factory that had been making razors for like a century. And they started making a better product. And they started charging less for them. And now, you can get a thirteen dollars value trial set that comes with everything you need for a close, comfortable shave a weighted, ergonomic handle, a five blade razor with a lubricating strip and trimmer blade, rich, lathering shave gel, by rich, rich, lathering shave gel, travel blade cover and listeners of the show. Can redeem their trial set at harrys dot com slash unorthodox. So look save that thirteen dollars fulfill New Year's resolution to save money and to be better looking. And then also just do it for yourself and for your own smoothness harrys dot com slash unorthodox. He there was nurse. I hope you join this episode. This is Mark Oppenheimer here with my co host deputy Nick high. So I personally think this show was one of the best live shows in the history of our show. And maybe the history of all podcast. It was amazing. It was so good and so fun, so fun. But before we get back into it. I just wanted to let everyone out there know that if you like what you hear you're in luck because we have more live shows coming up in the next few weeks. Stephanie our first Los Angeles Friday February. I what are we doing in LA doing a special couple, lots Chabad life show at dot shallow on Westwood boulevard. That's on the west side for all you L folks who have asked that the first question everyone asks is it on the east side or the west side? And so we have some amazing guests we have Lauren Miller Rogan who is a writer director, actor her latest movie is like father which starred Kristen bell, and Kelsey grammer and his on Netflix, and she also promotes Alzheimer's wariness and research with. Hilarity for charity organization are gentle the week is TV writer for shows like black ish Jonathan Groff who has also worked on scrubs. How I met your mother late night with Conan O'Brien where he was the head writer for more than four hundred episodes. I was just so excited to learn that he was gentile and could actually be our gentile the week because as we've learned you never know you think you've got gotta gentile, and they always turn out Jewish anyway. But this guy real gentile, we have to go to to find good gentile. And we also have Persian Jewish social entrepreneur. Rachel Mak who is amazing on this Forbes thirty under thirty list and her swipe out hunger organization helps fight hunger on campus. It let's suits donate unused food points swipes to students in need, and she's just great. And I'm so excited to have her as well. So that's three great guests. It's going to be so great a spirited coupla cheval. And then a live show afterwards to get tickets to bit dot L Y slash you live LA that's bit dot L wise slash you, live LA. And so we will be doing a. A couple of about service before the live show. You are welcome to join for that also have on word from the rabbi that you will still be allowed in the show. If you don't make it to the service, so whatever works for you. Yup. And then we'll be heading up the coast the next day to Seattle don't tell anyone that we're skipping that more than every second Saturday evening. We will be at the straw JC for a live show with Dan savage, the savage love cast, one of our favorite podcasts. And Stephanie who else is joining us. We have rabbi will Berkovitz he is from the Jewish family services, and formerly of the hill organization, and so he's sort of big Macher with Jewish life in the Seattle area. We're excited about that too. That's going to be great. We already have a bunch of questions for Dan that have come in through Email through Facebook. Listen, if you wanna get your question to Dan, it's not too late. You can send it to unorthodox tablet, MAG dot com. Put savage love in the subject line. We will anonymous it for you. You can also call our listener line nine one four five seven four eight six nine we will put a weird filter over your voice. So that nobody knows it's you lasting. If people wanna. Get tickets for that show. Stephanie, how can they do it dot L Y slash you owe live Seattle, and if you don't live there, but no someone who does tell them to come tell them. They cannot miss an unorthodox live show because they are very fun. Very fun back to our live show from Washington. Hebrew, congregation with the association of reform Jewish educators, or as we call them. We've one more chance for audience participation, which is time for the mazal tov as we close every show with the muzzle tops. We're gonna do a few. And then we want to open it up for five or ten of you to give quick mazal tov that some of them may make it on the air. I'm just going to say that I have a few mazal tov this week. I wanna give foolish to Laima a get well to Lydia bell, sir. I want to give a big mazal tov on the air to Dr Sasha Goldstein Sabakh forgetting his PHD about the Jewish congregations of Iraq finally approved after a long journey of research around the world and Dina Cranfield asked me if I would have very special model tov to her husband tristen Shelton on the one year anniversary of his conversion mazal tov tristen Shelton. That that's a good name trista. Interesting tristen 's my model is to my very best friend cat who's here. She just got a new dog and her name is olive. And I met her, and she is so cute. I've seen the pictures. Yeah. They're on Instagram mazal tov. Mazal tov, Leo. Yeah. You know? So I live vicariously through Stephanie's family. So so mind visit we all do. So my muscle told is to show favourite grandpa, Al and Cecile Roth house Stephanie's grandparents who are celebrating their sixty fifth anniversary, this we. Grandpa and grandma sees you can come to Florida for the party. All right. These two lines. If you're in line right now, you're we want to hear your mazal tov. Let's start with you. All right. I I'm giving one to our listener Matt Sheeran because he knows exactly what he did. He helped Josh with an excel document, it's more than that. I'm Melissa Stein. And I want to give a gigantic models of to the Sperling Milner family there. Their daughter read her entire partial. In braille for Chabad this week for music, cool. That sounds like something we might want to talk about on an episode of unorthodox. All right. We gotta do these really fast food when get to a lot of many people as possible my name is miles. Roger I would like to wish Basel tough to my brother. Eddie who celebrating his thirty six double high birthday Muslim? I'm Patty Lieberman. I wanted to give a muzzle to my niece L and her husband Sammy on having the first girl in our family in thirty years after thirteen straight boys. Oh, my. Let's do it. I'm so fan aid. And I want to give him Oslo tough to my mom, Laura. Nayed who organized this painting. I seen how hard she worked to make this a success. And I think we can all agree that she didn't incredible job. So my mom. Sir. I'm get Sandberg. Just wanna give shout out to my fellow federal employees. Just we can do this. We can get through it. You can do it guys. Guy some swag. I'm Ben de Wak. I wanna give mazal tov to my sister. Amanda on giving birth to a baby girl. Maybe girls all over. My name is Ricky grows cough, and I would like to extend a muzzle to my friend. Chris who just got married after being engaged to her? Now husband Jacob for two years vase. I Michael Ramsey, and I wanna give mazal tov to my partner. Brian Schwartz who moved in with me last Friday. And we now live next door to the synagogue. So it's perfect vases Brian for making a good choice Hughes. This my name is Sam Nella. I wanna give him outta to Luke and Mary Feinberg who welcomed their second child yesterday healthy and happy Jackson mazal tov. Hey, tally culet. I wanna wish a huge mazal to to my friend, AVI. Raffeld and to his fiancee, Stephanie Abraham off he's a huge fan of the podcast. So this is going to be a lot. Wedding. Brad Stillman, and I wanna wish mazal tough to all of the Charles E Smith Jewish day school seniors will graduate in this very sanctuary and just a couple of weeks modding, my son, Gabe, mazal tov, Charles E Smith day school graduates. I my name is Brett born. I just wanted to give muzzle tov to Eliana Ross Layton, she is not in fact, Jewish, but she does have Jewish ancestry and her best friend is a holocaust survivor, who's very close friend of my mom's mazal, tov Ileana congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. My name is low Braves. Then I wanna give them moslo tof to my brother in law and sister who called me at seven twenty eight this evening, tell me they're pregnant with their second child. You were like excuse me. I'm at a taping of podcast, and they call you back. Hi, my name's Tatyana Becker. And I wanna wish mazal tov to my boyfriend Joshua Greenberg. Who just finished his third semester at Hebrew college is in rabbinical school, and he's a huge fan of the podcast. So I hope this makes it on. 'cause I love him and that would really make him happy. Mazal tov rabbinic student. Josh who attends the seminary whose president perform my wedding. Sharon, Anna spelt, so mazal tov. I'm Lauren aid again, and I'd like to wish foolishly to one of our air. J? E members Vanessa Ehrlich who so dearly wanted to be here, but was not able to travel because some health issues I would also like to a muzzle tov to Mandy her lick. Who is the best friend co planner wonderful person, and you could ever hope to meet I love, you Mandy Basel. All right. We got three more. I Lisa Alpern. And I just wanted to wish him outta to Mandy and Lor both who have done an amazing job. At the end thing. I'm going to call it ours. Right. RJ RJ RJ so Muslim of. My name is Missy bell. And I wanna wish a muzzle to have to Dr Kathy shorts will be installed tomorrow morning as the new president of the RJ. Doctors wards. Hi, my name is Lauren blazer. And I think we should all Muslims have Rachel banks on her recent work promotion. We should. Unorthodox is brought to you by top magazine on the web at tablet, MAG dot com. You can ask our newsletter by writing to unorthodox tablet, MAG dot com and putting newsletter the subject line, we often come to you live tonight at Washington. Hebrew, congregation with RJ to book us or advertise with us Email producer Josh cross cross with a K J cross at Taba MAG dot com. And of course, you need to wear and carry unorthodox as well you can do that by coming to alive. So in winning it or you can go to bits dot L Y slash unorthodox shirt and find the latest in unorthodox, shirts, mugs, and onesies. No baby is too young to billboard for our podcast. Follow us on Instagram at unorthodox podcast on Twitter at unorthodox underscore pod. You can join our Facebook group are produced by cross sheer till it's gonna know eleven our editors Sophia standard IBO art, by extra worker or social media internet. Our Abrahams are other intern is Jillian four stop for at least a couple more weeks. Our theme music is by Gholam online at Gholam rocks dot com. Our mailbox by Steve Barton rabbinic supervision by the free fine rabbis this week rabbi, Rebecca. Recent rabbis. Rachel Gardner and Benjamin bearer friends.

Representative Katie porter Mark Oppenheimer Stephanie writer Senator Ted Cruz Washington United States Michael Tweedie Washington James beard award Africa Bob Jewish day school Twitter Seattle Representative Co association of reform Jerry Brown
Backstage Pass: Ep. 159

Unorthodox

1:05:31 hr | 1 year ago

Backstage Pass: Ep. 159

"The. Are you looking for that perfect holiday gift for that curious kid on your list? Why not give that kid a subscription to our supporter? Little passports each month that kit will get a fun filled package delivered right to their door packed with hands on activities interactive projects and unique souvenirs designed to spark their curiosity about geography world cultures or science. My kids have gotten those packages. You will dig them to and you should check them out. It's the perfect gift for kids of all ages. Order today a little passports dot com slash unorthodox. Your about to listen to orthodox podcast on which occasionally bad language is used. So before warrant this has been your obscenity warning. This is the universe is leading Jewish podcast. I am your host Mark Oppenheimer joined this week by no Stephanie. But Nick who is elsewhere Noli liebowitz who is a different elsewhere. But by our producer, Josh Ross. How are you? Josh. I'm all right, Mark, you I'm doing great. We also have a Jew of the week the week this week is the legendary documentary filmmaker Frederick Wiseman who sat down with the L E wits to talk about the art of making documentaries and also about Weisman's newest documentary himself, and then the gentile the week. This is taken from our Cleveland live show recorded this in Cleveland, Terry Stewart, who is a truly fascinating gentile. I mean fascinating human being as well. He is the former head of marvel comics, but also interestingly he is the past president of the rock and Roll Hall of fame in Cleveland. So he sat down with us at the Cleveland light show and talked about his long career in basically, the funnest jobs that a child could ever want to have as a grownup comic books. And rock and roll. But before we get to that stuff. Josh, we have some really really interesting news, the Jews, and you're here, basically to to update us you've been keeping keeping an eye on the TJ, the news of the Jews. So first date is about sneaky white. This is the California prisoner who started this statewide prison college system that basically gave associate's bachelor's degrees to hundreds of California prisoners over the years. He finally seems to be on the verge of getting released. Thanks to journalism done by j the San Francisco area Jewish newspaper written by the reporter, Alex wall, and Alex was guest of our show a few weeks ago. She was talking about this. Nikki white case. This remarkable Jewish inmate who has brought college educations to so many people after being incarcerated for a murder that he committed a few decades ago. And what's the deal is he is he actually on the verge of being released. Now, I know that the parole board recommended him for release, but it wasn't quite yet a done deal. So here's the deal and Alex. She we were emailing and she wanted to make sure we got it. Exactly. Right. So we didn't mess anything up. So the letter there was a letter sent by the state supreme court of California to governor Jerry Brown. Okay. Recommending as required by article five section eight of their California constitution that the governor grants pardon, which is to say, a big court told Jerry Brown set him free, and they're just waiting for him to do it it sitting on his desk. Okay. So it's now like cleared this other hurdle governor Brown who's a liberal guy. He likes setting people free, and he's going to do it. And we will keep you updated. Our big hope, of course, is to go out to California and be there if not for the actual release soon thereafter, but we wanna follow the release of James sneaky white back into society. It certainly seems based on Alex reporting that he's earned it that this is overdue and that will be one Jew. We are happy to see liberated from the penal system. Right. So stay tuned for that. Before we move on. I wanna read something a letter, but it's not a letter to us sneaky mailbox, and it's a letter that one of our listeners in the interim actually sent him cool anonymously and you'll see why? But he writes, his dear rep James, or is it red sneaky, I heard LX wall interviewed on the unorthodox podcast this morning and evening. I read her story on you from the spring. I was quite moved by her depiction of you. And if your work all these years, I'm writing anonymously because I work in a field that has tangentially connected to the DO. See that's the department of corrections. But I have for twenty five years been in this field as a quiet, advocate debris and the concepts of correction to corrections to reintroduce rehabilitation as a goal of our correctional system the pendulum swung way too far in the direction of vengeance. And retribution and the system if not many of the people is so clearly racially driven as to be unconscionable. If not unconstitutional, we have forgotten our Dostoevsky in our haste to seek guaranteed safety, which is of course, ridiculous. There is no safety. From dust. We all came into dust. We all return. I'm sincerely hopeful that you win you're released. But I am amazed by the grace with which you have lived your life. Thank you for being who you are. And I hope we all live to see the day when people are not judged by the worst moment of their lives. And just know that sneaky was so touched by this letter. That's why I have it because he sent it onto Alex to then send it to us sneaky know that we're with you, and we're gonna we're gonna stick by your case. Speaking of cases, here's a case in news of the Jews of somebody who was never tried in a an actual court of law, but has been tried in the court of public opinion. This is a very interesting case that came came across our radar screen in the last week. It's about a guy named Trayvon free. Who's a comedian and comedy writer and TV producer? He's worked on among other shows the reason HBO camping which is the new Lena Dunham creation. Lena Dunham from girls. And okay. Josh what what happened exactly somebody dug up some old anti-seismic twi-? Tweets of his from like ten years ago. All right. So apparently, he got into it a little bit with Ben Shapiro of all people this right wing journalist. Ben Shapiro, right? They were arguing over something about Beto Aurora or God knows what. And shortly thereafter, some people who followed Ben Shapiro dug up these tweets from almost a decade ago. He's thirty three. Now, he was twenty three at the time. And he was making some offensive tweets. There's no question they were offensive than HBO sends out a press release saying he's no longer affiliated with us. We don't do any work with him. And it seems like it's career is kind of you know, going to have some major setbacks to be fair. These tweets were horrible, like what were some of these anti semitic tweets that Trayvon free tweeted out a decade ago? I can't even believe there's been Twitter for a decade. But I I guess I guess there has been so what are some of the tweets? Well, back April fifth twenty ten. He said got got cut off in traffic by Jew, WW HD. What would Hitler do? Yeah. And the Hitler thing seems to be a theme. He's like how come no one ever channels their inner Hitler anymore. Let's remember he was younger, and you can see that. There's some kind of tempt to be funny in particular. There's the happy one hundred twenty second birthday Hitler. It's a good thing. You're not around to see how much you motivated the Jewish community to run everything. That's like a kernel of a stupid joke that then gets does three backflips and ends up a truly horrible joke and anti semitic and defensive it's yeah. It's like a bad comic earliest career on his worst day. They're not borderline right? There's there's some sometimes people use comedians. You stereotypes all the time. And sometimes you know, you can see. Okay. They were really just trying to be funny. And they crossed the line accidentally, these are really, you know, it's terrible. Right. Not funny at all. But but Josh you went and talked to him didn't you? Yeah. We reached out to him. And he was. More than willing to talk to us, and we agree conversation. So here it is as a Representative of the world's quote, unquote, leading Jewish podcast. I I should let you know that we do come from a fine tradition of really enjoying offensive jokes. And so what I really want to ask is does it kill you that the offensive jokes? You got in trouble for aren't really that. Funny. Oh, I mean, they definitely aren't funny. I mean that part honestly Diddy even on I mean, even if they if they were funny, I still wouldn't feel very different than the having the last night. Today's like based on what being comedian and being county writer in in trying to any like, I would have loved if they would've actually been funny from comedic like personal standpoint. How did you first hear that the story was coming? He reach out to you first. How did that play out realistically? What was your impression of the incoming shit storm before it really happened wasn't even journalists founded it was actually been Sapiro his Twitter. People aged tweet at me that morning about a bed. Oh, like cruising posted. And I responded to his tweet with what I thought was very factual response. And he didn't reply just the next thing. I knew my manager text me and another friend of mine. Text me second Twitter and I saw like Cerna bitch. And all these people's names. I'm saying, okay. I figure something happening on manager. Hugh started telling me about the tweets, and it was so unbelievable to me because it just sounded like something I would never tweet it. And so if it weren't for the fact that he had links I would favor fake just because I did not like in my mind today. I cannot see myself having done it even though I did. And so when I was like plane wing, okay? My just sat with in realize. Okay. Well, I mean. Yeah. That definitely happened. And I was just like. Really really disappointed in in hurt. I mean, just wanted myself, and I my manager and I apologize to my agents. And then I wrote an apology posted on Twitter. I know that if I'm looking at my tweets from nine years ago, and and you were what twenty four twenty five some three listen, I can personally say I was a Royal asshole at twenty three is it really that wasn't you? Or was it just we joke from a different place, and it was a different time because it's sort of a little both. I'm not at all you wasn't me. I'm saying in the moment because like being thirty three years old now and being such a different person. I just didn't recognize it. It's so foreign to me because I'm just not that person. I have many years you want him on Twitter today back and you'll be a long time before you find anything not either a satirical joke about a new story or just. Straight up advocacy for some issue or person or group is my life has been like for so many years now that seeing that was just so like, I was just a different person. There's a point at which we all sort of grow out of our youthful indulgences, and that stuff, what do you think was the inflection point for you between the person that tweeted a bunch of things about Hitler? And the person who is appalled by that. Now, I don't know where the breaking point is between Twitter comedy when my when I actually had like a personal change. I would imagine it was when I started to actually get work as a comedian touring and performing in not relying on Twitter so much for attention or China detention. And it wasn't a thing that was so tied to who. I was the person I think is life fell away so easily so quickly drop off a star change in how I tweeted, so I feel like I don't I can't. Pinpoint a moment. It doesn't down that time. Antonis was like things are just different. And I started to become more vocal about issues and things like that. Most of your jokes were very they weren't even like anti semitic in the broad category. It was very Hitler specific. What was it that sort of drove that to be your target of the jokes? I honestly foodie speak for my myself bins. I just don't remember my mind, but I can say as a history bus. I'm generally just obsessed with World War Two. And and the wars I watch a lot of my Hitler war documentary evening and things like that just from a purely historical standpoint up period of time. I I own a lot of World War Two documentaries and things like that. And I I would imagine at probably has something to do with it. Right. I was not obsessed with Hitler in the way. Maybe some of the people who tweet at me are. Are very much from and a war historical learning history standpoint you've worked and still to work with some prominent Jews. Did you reach out to any of them personally after this hit, and how did that go actually lot of people reached out to me? I just see how doing and to offer the support in any way, they could I personally did reach out to anyone specifically just because I didn't want it to feel like I was like three out to anyone who I knew who is wish in this moment of crisis at that makes sense like help me kinda way like right and just having yet to the still so so new and so like recent part of me was hoping you talked to Lena Dunham only because she might have some insight after her Odal Beckham junior fiasco, actually, I did talk to initiate research out to me wonderful. Guys, compare notes. I mean, she she off or just pure support. And she's like, obviously, she knows what it's like to be in these type of situations, and she's like do flood. You know, I'm here for you need anything. And it was it was just pure love just pure lives and be there. I guess where do you feel like we're at culturally with dealing with this stuff may mean between anti semitism, everywhere, and racism and me to all the stuff that we're peop- people are genuinely legitimately upset about stuff that people have said years ago or otherwise that you know, the side of that is Sam kennison ever had Twitter or Lenny Bruce back in the day. They would have been in a lot of trouble many years after and so how how does this affect being a comedian and a writer? How does this affect the way you approach the world? And so on I mean, I think as a comedian and writer, we should definitely. Take responsibility for whatever we written or said while also acknowledging where we are at the time that is being discussed if lights kennison tweeted something crazy in nineteen ninety one, and he was very different persons, whatever he tweets thousand nine I think it should be examined in that in that context because I'm very aware of the level of anti-semitism that's been on the rise in America the last two or three years, and I've been very vocal about it. When I look at the auto jokes tweeted, and I look at like what I do. Now who I am now like still matter than it still should be discussed. But I think in the context of who I am now if I had said those things last week, I think we having a very different discussion. Thanks a lot, man. Thank you. That was a really interesting conversation. It's I will say listening to now it's hard not to like the guy. He sounds genuinely contrite. I believe him when he says he doesn't even remember this stuff. I think he may have had a deeper anti semitic animus back then than he is willing to admit now. Because again, these jokes aren't funny, they sound like somebody's been listening to a little too, much Farrakhan. I don't know. What what do you think? I go back to something. I said to him also which was twenty three year old knee was dick, right? I don't hear anything in it. Especially with watching because I went and looked before I talked to him. And he does he wasn't just talking about it when he was talking to me. He really does a lot of advocacy stuff around race around sexuality and other things. And I gotta believe this was a twenty three year old. You know, there are people who are hard core on Randall breeding libertarians in college that wind up. Crazy socialists later in life there at twenty three. You're still a kid. Yeah. I like that doesn't mean. It's right. And it sounds like he reached out and made amends to people life. We thought might have been offended. I don't feel like he does every last living Jew. A an apology, frankly, his tweets ten years ago, while they put bad stuff out into the atmosphere into the Easter like he didn't he didn't harm me. He didn't harm u there are people actually do terrible things are people who punch people when they're twenty three. They're people who sexually harass people. There are people who, you know, really target Jews with anti semitic aids. This house like someone who said who said stupid shit and unfortunately lives in the age when you have a Twitter microphone to say it to the world, right and receipt says the kids say. Unorthodox is supported in part by the Jewish national at Jewish national fund. Hundreds of thousands of ordinary people are keeping extrordinary accomplishments across the United States and throughout Israel. They're making an impact on Israel's landed people and on the Jewish nation worldwide. Hear more about fascinated people doing interesting work all over Israel as well as Railly's making their Mark across the globe on Jewish national fund's podcast Israel, cast spice masterly, your cars of LA watt in y c to Bassett or e to running from Queen of kosher, Jamie Geller to former miss Israel and eighth, Ian, June TD eight now is a topic for every interest on his row cast. Live shows live shows live shows January fifteenth two thousand nineteen we will be in Washington DC is our second show ever there that was a life that we did a couple years ago this time we'll be back as guests of the Washington. Hebrew, congregation. So that's a free show if any of you want tickets for that to Washington Hebrews website or check out our Facebook group and get your free tickets Thursday, the thirty first of January we will be at the Lawrence family JCC in San Diego. Guests to be announced Friday, the first February we're going to be doing something in Los Angeles. That's to be determined. But stay tuned. And we'll let you know what's up with that. And Saturday February second we will be at the strewn JC in Seattle doing a joint show with Dan, savage and his savage love podcast. So come on out Seattle NCA. Aren't you of the week? This week is the legendary documentary filmmaker Frederick Wiseman. He's eight years old. He's been making movies since nineteen sixty three his latest is Monrovia, Indiana. And our only L liebowitz jumped at the opportunity to sit down with with Frederick Wiseman. Leo is eight we're all fans here Leo is what might be called a super fan. And if you wanna hear some true adolescent fan boy gushing listen to the L sitting down with Frederick wise. Mm-hmm. How did you come to Monrovia? How did you come to the idea of making a film? I wanted to make a movie the middle west. And so I thought small town in the middle west would be appropriate. So. I've worked prove who can seven-team states. But the only thing I'd done the middle west is public housing projects in Chicago. So I wanted to do something. It wasn't a big city. And I was talking about friend of mine's wolf professor in Boston. And I told her I want to do small town the middle west. And she said she had a friend who taught at the university university of Indiana law school who family had lived in the same small town in Indiana for six generations. And by chance I had been invited to show some movies and talk in Bloomington, which is the site of the university of Indiana. So I called up this. Indiana University, professor told him that I was interested in he said commodity early. And I'll take you to Monrovia which is telling my family's lived in population. Thirteen hundred. I have I've I've seen various figures from one thousand thirteen hundred. And so I did that we went there any introduced me to his cousin who is local undertaker. So she, you know, she knew everybody. And she's very charming woman. She said she would help me. So I then I looked around on Roleo for couple of hours that day. Then went back to France where I've been living and. She got in touch with the head of the school board and the head of the town council. Police department of the fire department some of the owners of the restaurants, generally, some of the people who ran the places that I'm interested in filming. And they all said, okay. And then when she told me who she called then called him from Paris talks of it, and then showed up but six weeks later, search routing, did you were you attracted to the mid west because you said, well, it's time to figure out and in the wake of the twenty sixteen elections to figure out what's going on. In these towns. I mean, I'm certain that the trumps election had something to do with it. But not all to do with it. Because I never start a film with a ceases, and I didn't start this with a thesis that I was going to make a movie of I mean. I mean, you only thought it was a small town west might make a good movie hoped would make good movie. And I soon pick up some traces of current politics. But interestingly enough though in no I overheard. No direct conversations of politics. Either. Federal or state when I was there. How's it possible for you to maintain this? Royally on excitable emotional state. I mean, so many of us most of us go completely crazy. And yet, I believe you because I've watched a movie several times that you came with nothing more than the thesis. Let's go to town in the mid west. How how do you? How do you do that? I like making movies. I'm also very patient and very curious. And I'm not I'm not judgmental. At least, well, it's complicated as to what constitutes medal. But I mean, I'm not I think I try to deal with people even handed way. Well, I think that comes across to film because there are several very funny moments and the feeling which I think probably don't I don't think you're films get enough credit for being really funny or good. I mean, I think a lot of. Yeah. But but you not at any point condescending or or cruel to them. You're just showing the innate humor of a situation. I think that's right. I mean, if I were to mock residents Monroe or the people in any of my films, I would only be making fool of myself. On the other hand some of the situations in all movies. You want across situations inherently funny, and and they're not funny because I edited the material such ways to force you. They're funny in themselves because if you watch a an and I think what a fiftieth anniversary ceremony of some member in the sonic lodge with all its regalia and pomp and circumstance that that's a hilarious scene. When you arrive from Paris to Monrovia, a very different set of pace d you require some time to acclimate or have you been at this? So long. Well, I mean, I think it's a function not just because then added so long. I mean. I. No. When I'm in Paris. I have one kind of life when I'm Monrovia. I have another kind of like when I'm in wrote Monrovia, it'll make a movie most of been a very big fan for very long. So I know a little bit about your process a lot of of the films put together an editing. Right. Well, the film is right. What happens when you shoot? When you're there in Monrovia, d you make mental notes that will be a good sequence to go into that place. Or do you just know, obviously, when you get a good sequence you remember it and I keep notes. Of you know, pretty much what we should. But I don't really have any time. I don't really think about structure at all during the shoot because there's no time. I think about structure. Requires time and to think. And the shooting is much for instinctive my job during the shooting is to figure out what to shoot, and you always ready to get it. I mean because in making these movies you come across if you're lucky and some good judgment come across sequences. That are funnier or sadder more tragic things in great literature. And I'm not writing about creating them, I'm recognizing and that's my job. And then the editing of figuring out how to use them in constructing dramatic narrative DP any attention to news current events when you when you work on editing that trickle into your I I'm an avid. I mean, I'm a news junkie. So I I read the paper or the times online can the can't sleep at night owes override a podcasts. So. I I think at least I have some idea what's going on. But he don't try to keep it out of the editing room. Or do you play the that formal certainly we're of the national political scene in what Trump is doing. But making movie Monrovia, I've read some of the reviews, which first of all it was delighted that all of them based film because I share in the space. But also a lot of took note of the recurring scenes in the town town council meeting, which are several and, you know, wonderful in moving in sort of amazingly poetic, first of all how many the very first scene that we see is a discussion about people moving in from outside. Was that just something you've lucked into right? Right. I mean, I had the town council meeting ran let's say two hours. So when you go to something like that, you shoot the whole two hours because you you mean, the worst thing you can do is try to end to separate what people are going to say and do. So when I go to town council meeting, I went to the senior staff meetings, both live, you shoot dull meeting, and that was one of the subjects that was discussed. And then, you know, and then I. One of many in chose to use it in the editing, and do you take it now? Or did you take it then as sort of a metaphor into outsiders threatening the small town American way of life, or well, I mean, certainly one of the one or two of the people in the town council meeting. Suggests that they don't want a hundred and fifty new homes to build because it's going to change the way of life when ROY. So that obviously raised raises that issue I make no attempt in the film to resolve the issue. I show that it's an issue that exists whatever evidence in Monrovia, but he also assist the temptation of making a grant metaphor out of it. Well, yeah, I mean, you viewer can make whatever you want. It. Let me ask you this question, which I've been thinking about a lot. I read an interview of yours from several decades back, but she said something like, I don't like the term cinema, very Tae. It's a fancy nonsense French term what we do is may as well be fiction. We manipulate footage. What's the best way to watch Frederick Wiseman? Phil. Awake and your eyes open. Well, that's not a problem because those images are, you know, insanely beautiful and the the stories are very moving. But do you encourage us as viewers to watch Monrovia and think of it as metaphor do you encourage us to just enjoy this peak into a slice of life. Would you like us to take away something else altogether? Well, yeah. You know, the old joke about the famous American philosopher Samuel Goldwyn. If you have a message Senator, no I would like. People to think about what it is. They're seeing and the implications of and leave each one of us with our own. I don't think it's up to me to say what the film is quote, unquote, above because if I could say in twenty five words less I shouldn't have made the movie once asked me after a screening of welfare, which is runs a little three hours. I question after the screening is what's it about? And I said about three hours and seven minutes. You've screened the movie in Monrovia. How did they take? I had I. Go from multiplex when newer three screenings each half an hour apart and. Five six hundred people came and a half the time. And they, you know, those that talk to me, and I with whom I talked afterwards seem to like it was there ever any issue for them of mistrust. You were the east coast Paris intellectual coming in. No that people were extremely nice, very friendly cooperative. And that they like the idea. I mean, I I didn't run into anybody. Who didn't like, you know, feel the movie was good idea that there's only one person in Monrovia who didn't want to be filmed. And he had a good reason to not want to be filmed. So didn't but knowing that and having had the experience you had does that change the way you look at that part of the country? Are you sort of feeling? No, well, you know, I kinda got that wrong. Maybe I don't know what he thought about. Well, I mean, try not to think in broad terms because I never. I don't know how to do it in a broad cultural terms or make broad statements about America generalizations about American live. So you know, I didn't have any formula opinions about the middle west because I mean. And quite a large slice of territory in lots of different kinds of people lose their never bought into that. You know, that now infamous Hillary Clinton notion about the no bitter people clinging to their guns in God owes that Obama's Stefano this cliche. No, I didn't. It's really came to it sort of just well, I came to I think I came to with its fueling that I wanted to learn something about it. And I didn't know any of that again, I am so deeply moved by your by your ability to transcend this. If there's one thing I think that that connects a threat of connects all of your movies is really this almost Kenny ability to to both observe and portray, you know, humanity people as they really are when you look right now at how fractious at how violent at how vile so much of our civic political discourse. Become does that is that? Depress you or do you think it's a phased you, well, I mean does the current political climate depress me, of course, I mean, we have a president touts second past. And I mean, if you look at the American secular association definition of pather psychopath for each those words there ten major characteristics and Trump fit symbol. So what? They can't help. If you depressed by having someone who fuels to the worst instincts of human nature who has no knowledge of history as. Doesn't read the intelligence reports Carly compiled by own agencies. Is is a bully and dangerous. Do you personally by the notion or have any, you know, anything to do with the notion of part of his being how people like the people in in Monrovia having been ignored for so long by storytellers who live here or in LA? Well, I mean, you know, you know, this whole issue of being ignored. I mean, I'm not sure I know what's behind that. For example. Farmers on Nord. They get soybean and corn farmers. Get these great subsidies from the government. That's that's not ignoring. They're they're rarely seen on on your television or movies. Well, okay. But I mean in terms of their livelihood. They're not Nord. I mean, I it's. It's one of the, you know, things that a lot of people say, I I just don't know enough of. What was going on to say how how valid that is. I'm sure there's some validity to it. But I mean, the whole issue of why somebody like Trump gets elected is enormously complex one. And I mean, I I wouldn't try to utter some of analytics nation of own for. But you know, that many people who go into see Monrovia probably do it with an anticipation that they will get the reason true reason for anybody thinks they're going to get the to reason about anything. Is in deep trouble. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Is there a subject that you've ever tried to to film that you just couldn't? Because it was difficult. Yes. No, no. I mean, there was one moment in hospital film. I did it metropolitan hospital New York. Sixty eight were men who worked in the subway touch. Third rail all his nerve endings who burn he was dying. But he wasn't any pain and he was surrounded by family, and they didn't have any objection to shooting. I decided not to shoot it. But in retrospect, it was mistake because the issues that seem presented with no different than all the other scenes in the emergency ward. That's the only time that's happened. Do you have a dream project that if time money another earthly can the White House, the White House this White House where anyway, but certainly this one have you ever tried? No because I mean to twenty national security issues. I mean, they, you know, some president might fishing to be around for the civil aspects. But any president democratic Republican would let somebody sit in on. National security meetings and or real winkles gushing. Understand that you ask you dream subject. That would be. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that a federal question movie about the Trump administration would be something I would pay a lot of money to see I've had a lot of money to get permission. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you. That was our own Liel liebowitz talking with documentary filmmaker Frederick Weisman a couple of weeks ago. Weisman's new movie is Monrovia, Indiana. Hey, J crew. I will confess I have never been a beer man myself. I know that's not very manly of me. But I like to think it's pretty cool that I love spirits, and I really do love spirits gin vodka, whiskey all of them. I just wonderful in terms of AGA I really can recommend Belvedere vodka Polska awry and water from its own natural. Well, it's all natural zero additives or sugar. It's it's it's pure, basically. Here's the other thing that I just will mention because I think it will mean something to a lot of you. It is certified kosher by the orthodox union. Now, this is something that won't mean a lot to the people who don't care, but to the people who really do want that Hecksher who do want that certification. The fact that Belvedere vodka went to the trouble of getting it that it is supervised that you know, that you're feeding your guests or yourself closure vodka. That's really wonderful. It's the same. Everyone else drinks. It's that spirit. It's that youthful taste profile elegant and balanced with a subtle sweetness. Also, certified kosher by the orthodox all of you should go out get some Belvedere vodka. Drink it. As you listen to an episode of I don't know your favorite podcast, perhaps. And by the way, Belvedere vodka a quality choice. You know, what else is quality drinking responsibly Belvedere vodka for the J crew. As you know, we were in Cleveland a couple of weeks ago did an astonishingly fun live show at the Mandel Jewish community center of Cleveland, Ohio had a great time there. The people in Cleveland are drop dead amazing hosts, and we are excited to think that we may get invited back there someday much left to Cleveland. Here's the interview we did with our gentile of the week in Cleveland. It's Terry Stewart who is recently retired from his job running the rock and Roll Hall of fame are gentile of the weakest hurry Stewart, he was the longest running president and CEO of the rock and Roll Hall of fame and museum in Cleveland, Ohio. He served from nineteen ninety nine through the end of two thousand and twelve he is an active philanthropist and supporter of arts and culture. And we are so excited to have an air this. I like this because we came from New York, and here, you are wearing all black, and I feel very much at home. I lived in New York, I learned well when I was there. So when we call you an active philanthropist, does that mean, you exercise a lot or like, you're actually giving money you gave money away today. No, my hand my wallet to my wife. So the I was at your building. Let's does it still feel like you've been you haven't done this for six years. And I'm curious do you. Do you drive by longingly and think that the guy took over after you screwing everything up like once you really? Once you really not is it still home. You miss it. How can you not miss one of the greatest jobs in the world? And fortunately, I hired the guy that took over after me. So I feel very very proud of that. So I miss it. I I one of the greatest of Cleveland is all of you, folks. No here, and it's the marquee of Cleveland among other things besides the orchestra art museum and the sports teams. So you seem like a pretty cool guy when you have this job. Do you feel like you need to be like very rock and roll show up late like stay out late. I dunno laugh Josh off. Yes. How do you? How do you do that? And also do your job. Well. I'll give you a serious answer because you may not notice I also had another very interesting job before this, marvel comics, basically two jobs in the world that I want mo- never. That's it. If you have those jobs, you have to grow up go old in can go. But so I learned early on you you can't wear that mantle of being cool and being one of them 'cause you're not one of them. You're the guy that takes care of their world or their business or their stuff at the rock hall. So even though I might have dressed in all black, and I go to a lot of shows. I didn't never try to play that card. It's a really big mistake. I really big mistake. You have to be like, the grownup is more or less. Yeah. This is your word. Does it kill you though? Like, you're hanging like Springsteen, and these guys, well, I'll just go back to my office and draw the profit on loss balance-sheets, or whatever is not about would be. No, I want to be here in four in the morning just to hurt you feel in. Sometimes they ask you to come along with them. Anyway. Who I have found, and I've I think all three of us here interviewed a lot of artists of various kinds musicians writers journalists do a lot, and I've very often of finding that they aren't very articulate about their work for a specific reason, which is their work says at all and others. If you want to know what Bruce Springsteen feels about the night he has twelve songs about the nights. Right. And James Taylor is a lot of songs about New England. You know, there's certain they, and that's where you go. If you want to know what they think about so then when you ask them about it, they say, well, listen to the music have you found in talking with with so many musicians are there some of them who are very very articulate outside of their work. I mean, if somebody were real theoreticians or scholars thinkers about lyrics or music or surprisingly, a large number of them. You may not catch them at those moments may not get them to open up to you. But if you been to the inductions ever heard the speeches at the people make the inductions so many of the speeches are written by the artists themselves. If you hear a Springsteen speech, Bonnie, Raitt speech, and you hear them articulate Nali what the music and the artists that they talk about means them or the history of the music, which they bring forward they many of them are steeped in one of the greatest Jewish rock and Roll Hall of famers of all time. And who would that be gentleman lady Dylan Dylan young Dylan is a savant about this stuff? If you go back and see what he's stolen taken, borrowed, etc. Etc. It's amazing what he's pulled from going all the way back to I'm from mobile, Alabama, and is a piece of sheet music from mobile, Alabama. I mean, my dad is really absolutely later. His father his parents were divorced. His mom was from Pittsburgh from mobile absolutely, small world, wonderful sitting was a piece of sheet music from nineteen seventeen called stuck in mobile with the Memphis blues. So Dila make it up. Not exactly you know. So I it's more of them are more. But they're not going to be real talkers. And particularly not to. People off the street, not to the guy the rock hall of fame, unless you have a topic that you want to engage that they want. Engage you with Robert plant loves to talk about rockabilly in American music. So once he starts, then you can open up, and you get you get that sort of. I was hoping for a second that say like gardening. Question. I think second only to the secretary general of the United Nations. This is a job that involves dealing with different factions of people with very strong partisan feelings, and I know that there have been cases in the rock and roll fame. I'm thinking of one in particular in which fans, quite literally mobbed, the building right demanding induction Ness that will be kiss. First of all, how do you handle those situations? Well, there's no good way to do it. The fact is that most of the artists that you can bring up that should be in do get in. And I tell the fans that and they don't believe me and over time, right? I tell the story the last day I was sitting in my office before I retired. I got a letter. And I I learned at marvel comics where answered every letter from every kid and every letter I got from. He, you know, joker. That wanted yell at me about who's not inducted. I gotta let her the last day that said dear -tary written in crayon. You can imagine this. Okay. Thank you for answering. My dumb ass letter. When you told me that rush would get inducted. And I told you I was never gonna bring my children all eight of them to the rock hall until they were and I'm going to bring them, and I really appreciate you sin yet back to PS do not answer, this dumb athlete. So that's that's the kind of things that happen the process work. It's like it's like almost like the pope, right? You all get together in this white smoke. And then, you know, Linnet Skinner does inducted pretty close pretty close. There are roughly forty to sixty nominees that people nominate and a committee the meat in the fall September. And I was a member of that committee for fifteen fourteen years. Can you get us on that committee? No. And nor what I even suggested. Not after the way, you're treating me here. I love you so much. I know you do, but and that the list that comes at rooms, which usually on fifteen sixteen individuals or groups is submitted to around six hundred or seven hundred voters the majority of which are the living inductees in the rock hall and out of that comes anywhere from six to eight inductees every year. So there's been a lot of stories about who does what who filters this and everything, but I can promise you my time the voting was legit. There were fistfights in the early as as I understand it. I wasn't there. So it's it's a very organized process and your time there were no heated discussion all lots of discussions. Oh, yeah. Can you share some of them? Phil spector Phil spector who's in prison. Right. And who did the upset? Ester as he stood up. No fucking way of the Ron ever fucking getting in here. That's what he said. And the committee went, but they got in anyway. So yeah. But that's that's the kind of things what happened are certain individuals remain. Nameless. Kissel, get in over my dead body. He didn't die yet. But they got in some, you know. It happens. You have to stay fairly objective. Right. Running this whole ship. I actually get three artists every year. And I spent almost every year nominating individuals or groups that I thought should be ended in getting nominated or perhaps an artist at my wife was going to kill me. If I didn't. So yeah, I I honestly tried to take that and go in that direction. So is there ever someone who's gotten in that you were like, yes, the felt like it was yours quite a few. It wasn't wasn't uncommon that that they got in or moment in which you are particularly starstruck. I'm to meet a lot of people. But was there one person that you bet and fed like, oh my God. I am now in the presence of X somebody I met like that. Yes. Oh, starting Paul McCartney. Yeah. Paul mccartney. Yeah. We're standing next to Bruce Springsteen gotten in the same night. Billy, joel. You asked. Yeah. So you like really go get, Bruce and Paula drink, please talking sales, very anti Billy's. So what happens? So after like after they get through committee. How do people find out that they've been inducted? Well, they the announce the list which just announced a few weeks ago here and around the first or second week in December the votes are released and you find out who's getting in. And there's also a few artists get in for what they now call the excellence award, which lumps in song writers producers directors agents thing. So there's another category done by committee. And is there like sort of like the IRS like for your consideration billboard type things where people sort of campaign for themselves. They you don't read about it much. But in fact, I used to tell some of the artists who were nominated many times and never got in. You know, everybody get on the fucking phone column. And that actually has worked on occasion. If you really get the votes out from the people that, you know, first of all notice to my great delight that there's just a lot of hip hop in rock and Roll Hall of fame as I should do you do you perceive rock and roll is just a state of mind Dora kind of broad cross genre. You'd have to do a podcast on this. I'll give you the short version this music goes back to the eighteen forties. It's an African American art form the words, and the and the beats and a lot of the lyrics happened in the eighteen hundreds in ragtime and blues still existent. Hip hop. You can trace them through books where people that studied. This will show you that. It's just a river of music continues to change names different names are attached to when Alan freed coined phrase Rachael. He didn't make the term robo goes back to nineteen Twenty-three it always meant sex when he coined it. He just chose a name to rebrand rhythm and blues. He didn't it wasn't anything. Thing new decide he thought the term Reema blues too pejorative for the music he was playing on the radio. So he decided to call it rock and roll. And he talked about this river of African Americans that have been sort of disdain for so long. And he felt here was a chance for this to explode. And you gave it a new name. What happened? I totally get that. But. You must have some concern about drawing down. I mean, you're not the country music. Right, right. I mean, all of these Zawahri's are have roots that go back at least one hundred years. I mean, certainly that's true blue grass and in its country bluegrass bluegrass country plays a big role in rock and roll. Right bluegrass. You get more into the Irish and the Europeans that came over as opposed to the African American base, which is really the foundation for the most part of what we call rock and roll rhythm and blues rock hiphop all the above. Yeah. You do worry about it. But there's also a lot of these artists that get in whether it's like, Nina Simone this year, who's African American but also more of a jazz singer. But she influenced people Sinatra's been nominated has never gotten was very influential in terms of a breathing and all this stuff that comes up. So there's no you can get in and a lot of different ways when you were twelve which job would you have wanted more, marvel comics or rock and roll? Well, unfortunately, I'm soul that marvel really didn't exist when I was twelve Leon. We all knew that. But. It would have been rock and roll. If I couldn't imagine either one of them, obviously, I've been blessed, but you were huge comics, Anna, huge, always interesting interesting. Well, one of the traditions, we have is we always allow the gentile the week to ask us a panel of internationally, certified Jewish experts a question that. You may have several my friends out there know, how I'm going to go. Just imagine what I'm going to say. Yeah. Let's talk about juice for Jesus. Let's yes. Your question is Jews the Jews for Jesus. Wti f-. Okay. WW bound up Bill f J D which of. Don't put that on a license plate button. It. Leo. I think you should represent us in this one my feelings, I feel are are not compatible with the obscenity morning. For your feelings that we have in obscenity warning. Leo, I think you should probably try to take this. So I will I will answer this question fully, and honestly, and candidly, but I mean, can I ask you, what do you think as someone who's not Jewish? They're not they're not. You're not implicated in any way in what they're doing. Do you think you'd be offended if you were Jewish do you think you'd be how do you think you, you know, I looking from the outside of just that group from what little I know about it? It's it they ask a question of should the rabbis two thousand years ago decided that he wasn't the Masai. Right. That's what it comes down to certain individuals who live today or have lived in this organization say I have a different idea. Right. So I mean, I think most people here have some sense of Jews for Jesus are. I'll just say that they not all messianic Jews are Jews for Jesus Jews for Jesus very particular group aids. Like a particular denomination of. What's more broadly called messianic Jews, which are people of Jewish ancestry identify as ethnically Jewish but have come to Christ, but are born again Christians. And I guess what I would say is I've known some we've actually had a couple on our show who are utterly sincere and honored their beliefs as being truthful and sincere and coming from a good place as I. Honor those of fellow Jews and Muslims secularists, eighth theorists. Of course. That said there's something squishy about them to coin a term. And where I find I. And again, I'm not sure what over the years Jews for Jesus in particular as a group has done. But when you speak more broadly about messianic Jews. I don't like it when they advertise in the yellow pages under synagogues, right? I don't like it. When when Mike Pence call someone up to be his rabbi who had turns out his messianic Jew. Even in a d froth messianic because I think fundamental mental to all of these religions is honesty and truth. And they know, and we know that they know, and they know that we know that they know that they are playing a little bit of a shell game. With a lot of people who broadly and correctly, think of Christians as having become a different tradition from from Jews. So, you know, I, yeah, I dislike and resent a lot of what they do publicly that I'll, but I will say that leaves like a couple of friends of mine who are messianic Jews in a weird place because they would say we believe that we know. And by the way, Judaism considers them Jews because of course, if they have maternal lineage, if your mother's Jewish and reform Jews would save either package, you're still Jewish. It's you know, and you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave. So they're still June as they say, so it was really rock and roll out. Invoking? The eagles is always had a getting good with real rock people. So, you know, so that does I don't know what I want those friends of mine to call themselves, but I do know that publicly presented you say your best friend. Distant sweet thing. I think that for most Jewish people messianic Jews is like that's the line. Right diet coke, basically, if you're Jewish what separates you fundamentally from Christians Christians believed that Jesus was the messiah and Jews do not believe that. And so to hear the to is. Yes, I'm Jewish. I'm, you know, my mother, blah, blah, blah. And I also believe Jesus is the messiah and you're like, those two things actually fundamentally don't make sense even of Jewish people. That is what has always fascinated me so profoundly because I think it actually my own personal distaste aside, I think actually shines a really interesting question of so many Jews seeing themselves as some kind of cultural group, first and foremost for whom belief faith theology, you know, the actual core of this religion. If I may is irrelevant and so Jews. That would be the name if they were bagel Jews may I suggest that they'd be beyond these or. Juice. But but it kind of is interesting to me to watch people say without skipping a beat. Because of course, you could be a part of the Jewish people and also believe in Christ redeemer in my my head spins. But I think it's an interesting class. There are they get away with it. Because in your opinion, Jews don't observe enough. Like that this is there. I am a very simple to I can't perceive. I understand the people who would or as Mark like spotted the family aspect pretty well. But I cannot begin to conceive of Judaism without the faith. You know to me it is if nothing else also not to say, personally, predominantly religion. And so that is very confusing to me that anyone would choose to look at it. I can understand that you say look I that there are these commandments. I don't wish to observe right now. But I have a very warm strong feeling for the family. And you know, I think that's great. But if someone is keeping the family part, but also have you heard of Jesus feel like right? Well, you know, those he has a family to their great family a lot. And I do think I'll just there are a lot of them and their whole fame. It's an amazing question here. And I think you're the first. These are asked us about this. And I'm a little surprised after one hundred fifty odd episodes, and it's a great question. I will say that. I think one reason a lot of Jews feel particularly squishy about Jews for Jesus is because we know that when they confront us, you know, at spring break or in the strip club or wherever they come to find loss, Jewish souls. I did to meet some friends. Survey they're all over Daytona Beach on spring break. I know that someone who knows what I'm talking about. They come up to you on the beach, and one reason we feel squishy because when they start invoking biblical arguments, and they really know theology, and we as largely secularized people have have no arguments against them. And they know our tradition better than we do we feel about J big. Here's my thing. It's like you have Christianity like that's done. Really? Well, like didn't leave us with arth. Like you got. Christmas are songwriters. Write good songs for you. Just say you've just a clear victory and claims. Terry stewart. Thank you so much. That was the three unorthodox host mealy Ellen Stephanie onstage at the Mandel Jewish community center in Cleveland, Ohio with former rock and Roll Hall of fame. Head honcho Terry Stewart. Oh, hi, oh, excuse me. I was just playing one of the songs from my new album that's called the north of docs, demos. Hey, why are you here? I'd love you to check it out and download it. You can pay for it or not whatever you wanna do. It's at Jim Nabl Jupiter dot band camp dot com, which is j I am K N A B L E T H E J W B A D O U R dot band camp. That's B N D C A M P dot com. Com. Spelled C O M as in man. Anyway, I've recorded these songs over the years for the north that podcast. And now I'm hoping that you will make them yours because you can. And I love you to have them. Thank you for listening. Hey listeners before we get to the mazal tov, a few reminders, first of all please do subscribe to our show, go on itunes or Stitcher or whatever hit the subscribe button, get your automatic downloads. It helps us it helps you it means that you never miss an episode. So go go do that before you do anything else before you take don't don't sit that coffee in intil, you subscribe to unorthodox remember that you wanna get tickets to a live show. Remember that you want to be in the Facebook group or getting the newsletter written by our only l liebowitz and also, you know, what give us a male or call us. We love hearing from you mail can come to us at unorthodox tablet, MAG dot com. Call us leave us voicemails. We love hearing your voice and playing the messages that way where nine one four five seven four eight six nine that's nine one four five seven. Oh, Israel would stock the mazal tops this week are courtesy of the live audience at the Houston Jewish community center. We were down there right after we were in Cleveland, and we turn the microphone over to those wonderful. Hugh ins who had some terrific mazal tops. Have a listen. So is it before we wrap up we model toz, but we felt we would turn the mazal tops over to you. So instead of us having three muzzled three people here who and a model as you got up and say, I'd like to wish them to so and so on the occasion of such or so and so for accomplishing this, or what are their three people here we'll to the floor Mike because we're going to hope to episode. Hello. My name is Monica Kaufman. And I'd like to wish mazal tov to my daughter-in-law mantha. Just started this week working as an assistant religious school director in Phoenix. Arizona. A year then to the birthday boy. Hi, my name's Adam Krueger wanna wish muzzle. My brother Noah, Kruger and his wife Danielle who this Friday or moving into their house after being flooded out of. And he's an amazing guy in lovely guy. So I want to say muzzle to the JC for putting on a wonderful book fit. To the beautiful young lady. Tomorrow who has been putting on the actual bookstore for the last seventeen years. And now, and now I wanna wish muzzle say muzzle to my friend, Sarah, Sarah, Ciroma, Jewish friend who's couch having crashing on for the past ten. She just passed convicts them. So she can graduated with her master's degree from Georgetown models fair. Thank you, Houston and mazal tov to you. We can't wait to be back. Unorthodox is brought to you by tablet magazine on the web at Talbot. Mag dot com, we often come to you live. If you wanna book us, Email producer cross at J cross cross with a hey at Tallaght MAG dot com for unorthodox swag. That is clothing onesies laptop cases Votto fit thought L Y slash unorthodox shirt. We are on Instagram at unorthodox podcast. We're on Twitter at unorthodox underscore pot. Join the Facebook group does produced by cross no eleven our editor is so evil the artwork on our website or unorthodox by Esther worker. Our social media internet are Abrahams. NRT music is by Gholam online at Gholam, rox dot com. Rabbinic supervision this week by the rabbinic team at Washington. Hebrew, congregation. We're excited from there on January fifteenth, that'd be rabbis Bruce Lustick and Susan shankman. Aaron Miller Eliana fissile cantor, Mikhail Monot, Kanter Susan's, four Nicoli cow. There are a lot of you. Down there the supervision by all of y'all and become to you from Argo studios. Shalom friends.

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Prep-ing for Hanukkah: Ep. 206

Unorthodox

1:25:26 hr | 9 months ago

Prep-ing for Hanukkah: Ep. 206

"So how blue is the tablet. PODCAST as as as you want to be some good material you want to know frankly Hinkley it hasn't been blue enough lately. This is unorthodox universities leaving Jewish podcast. I am Mark Oppenheimer joined today by my co hosts tablet the jeopardy editor Stephanie Button Alot Happy December happy December. Snowing there's snow on the ground here in new haven. How about you guys in New York? I saw snow in the rooftops when I looked at my window. Oh by the time I got downstairs. There was like not a trace slush on the ground here in New York just gave up the game and said that I am calling in from my basement layer in new haven. Has that cat cat. Of course is not showing her face. I forgot to skip the litter this morning. Thank you reminded and this is why you should never have cats. Gets I couldn't agree more Tablets senior writer Liel Liebowitz. Also here on the podcast as ever a doug owner this week we bring you a conversation we bring you many conversations The first one will be with Simon Dune and Jonathan Adler they talk about their relationship and their work including Simon's new book on the history of Drag also a conversation with Steve Schrage is the founder Director of one day university which has been a sponsor of the show but Steve addition to having had the wisdom to sponsor our show as a really really interesting story of working in educational circles including the work that he used to do with Donald trump through the learning annex. So it's really a fun history. There stick around for that and finally Stephanie spoke with Molly Molly. Yay Who's new food network. Special Hanukkah cooking challenge airs this week so really really fun. Show a lot more ahead for us because we are hitting the road yet yet again as this show airs. I will be in the air on my way to Madison Wisconsin. where I'm going to give a talk at the University of Wisconsin? So some of you hearing this You have time to come see me tonight. I'm super excited needed. That's with the religious studies department at the University of Wisconsin and Stephanie. You will also be somewhere Thursday evening right as you hear this. I'll be on the bridges and the tunnels on the way to port Washington on Long Long Island my homeland. I'll be really excited. I'm going to be speaking at the community synagogue. So check that out and I will be in Switzerland reporting a story about the historical burning of Jews on the night mixed Geneva. It's the original burning man. The Swiss invented it If you think about the territory were covering Thursday the European past where we got burned New York which we fled to and then southern California where we went when we really have you shackles in our pocket and wanted to get some sun. It's like the the whole the sweep of Jewish history. Right there for the for the ticket. But there's something very interesting. That's happening that I've noticed since we've been on the road for a really long time and a lot of that. Routing has consisted of Stephanie and I in planes trains cars and automobiles. And you know I thought about it the other day I think Stephanie and I are are sort of merging into one kind of like bizarre Mega Mecca hosts. I will say I'm looking at all right. Now he is drinking an ice macho lot et. Hey with pink Straw which is from Monta favorite place correct. He's wearing an avocado beanie. which is I have that? Also we got that in Cincinnati. We're basically say per Sarpong and like a purple button down and I'm like you literally sealing my Car Miss Stephanie and are you averaging out to one host. Who's about five eleven or six feet? Yeah exactly sleeper. It's it's not good for anyone. I will say that. Leon I have sort of like a review going now. Were Jose something in an event and I'll be like you see what I have to deal. You believe. We're like Vaudeville act on avenues. Say something that'd be the worst generation ever no. Let me tell you about genetics. It's selects really well. Our grandparents generation had Mel Brooks. And Carl Reiner and we get you guys yes basically what the pot of pods that review or some version of it. The Stephanie and version then goes to San Diego where we will be the guest of the Leash Tag Foundation and be doing a Friday night dinner and then a live show. This is all at the high which is extraordinary co working and community the incubator space. which is Jason to a Jewish farm? I can't wait to see this place. And the best thing is that we are going to the farm and we are importing with us a fellow New Yorker via Israel connected. Mony the amazing chef behind all the time philophical stands and Bella booster and the shook cookbook and she is amazing and so funny and so smart. And we're GONNA talk to her about food food and the things that you do on a farm. This is really a step up for this podcast. We've replaced an Israeli who can eat with illegal. Actually Cook regard not up. You'll be playing the part of the L.. Only much better is what we're saying. Liyel rejoins US IN PHOENIX. Where Monday night we will be doing a live? We have three guests joining us in Phoenix at the Valley of the Sun J.. C. Z. Are I is a double header to rabbis Rabbi Shmole Yankel wits and Rabbi Pinchas allush and our Genta of the week is former Phoenix Suns coach. Paul Westphal he is in the basketball hall of fame and he's sort of like a phoenix icon. So we're really excited to be talking to them from Switzerland to New York to San Diego. Oh to Phoenix. We have you covered and Leo you. If I may segue will be covered in your newly custom-made J. press shirt. I want to give one final shout out. Due to our partner. J press friends can still go to j press online dot com and using the Code Unorthodox fifteen get. American made handcrafted traditional men's ends clothing which I wear a now which I've gotten Lee l into wearing. and Are you happy to me. The switch Lille I am so happy and for those of our listeners will join us in Phoenix you could behold my Oxford collar which the lovely gentleman in the store advised that a person of my noble proportions ought to always. WHOA you're getting caller advice from the The dashers at J. press a little news of the Jews University of Toronto Student Union apologizes for saying that Kosher food is too pro Israel. This story is a little bit crazy so basically as I gather it The hill one needed some kosher food and the Graduate Student Union which is like the student government for Grad students. Basically said they were reluctant to bring such motion. Forward to the board of directors since hill is pro pro Israel and that's supporting it by giving them kosher food would go against the will of the membership than somebody pointed out to them. That's massively anti Semitic to try to deny Jews. The religiously religiously approved food and they said sorry for that thing that we were talking to boot so like we oppose it because anti Zionism is not at all like Anti Semitism in our is no lots goes for you. 'cause like that extrapolates to okay hills pro Israel. The idea that kosher food equals pro. Israel or kosher for Eagles Israel in any way is just so deeply unsettling settling and the fact that Jewish are so sort of like unprotected because like the wider student. Body just doesn't know anything it feels like it's just like the hateful -ness of someone can actually like except through an effect daily. Life is really sad absolutely and you can really see how short a leap it is from that to You may not wear Yarmulke because a Yarmulke is is pro Israel and is murdering Palestinians like any that any religious observance in the eyes of Anti Semites. They will just find reason to politicize it and say you. I mean this was food. This was people wanting to not eat shellfish you know I mean fortunately they can all transfer to McGill University where a student leader was recently asked to resign. I'm from there. Oh Poor Jordan right. A second year science student sits on the Student Society of Mcgill University's Board of directors. Here's she recently announced that she was going on birthright trip. Something available to any human being at this point who could plausibly claim to be like one thirty second Jewish or more and she was then asked to resign because they said she was taking money from a pro Israel propaganda organization so the noted that there are two other. He's university student body members who are not Jewish who are also going on the Strip and who are not asked to resign. Actually I mean the crazy thing is first of all the misreading of birthright the threat like yes birthright has an agenda. It's not designed to like affect your student government votes and decisions once you get back. It's just a trip to Israel. I mean it's really really just again. This is the same thing. This is obviously like Israel. But the idea that she's going to become like info like brainwashed into something it's like we've we've just I hillock. I'm saying it like we've gone nuts. And it's such a peak into the mind of the sort of ignorant semi anti-semites so this is from the article from the Jewish Telegraphic Agency on relies lies so much quote it is designed to influence one's opinion upon return. Argued Madeline Wilson. SMU Vice President of university affairs quote. There's an agenda behind that and it's again being offered to somebody in their capacity as a student leader Actually Madeline No. They are desperate to get any human being on the birth rate of that they can. It's not like they looked for for student council presidents and Hill Executive Directors. I mean literally if you like. There was rooting for the elders. I mean the birthright trip that I was is odd was Undergrad. Grad students ages. Eighteen to twenty six now the age goes even higher a bunch of really really tall blonde Russians who claimed that they had one not Jewish great grandparents Liam O'Callaghan O'Flaherty whose mother's mother's father's sister was Jewish. It was like the idea that they're looking for like the Jewish thought leaders. Here's an influencers to get them to Israel so they can come back and be like mentoring. Candidates sleeper agents is such a misreading of birthright. I like that. We're like guys they let anyone like. We're like quibbling with the specifications of the birth rate application. I gotTa tell you though. I am digging this new stage. At least they're being honest like you know a couple years ago. I feel like they still were trying to mask their hatred. And sorta like well no the thing that we oppose are just a specific policies of the state of Israel. We don't hate Jews knows like what the fuck it we hate. Jews is just takes too long. I mean just only like you. Basically another way to say what they'll just said is we're all Belgian now now with two stories from Belgian. This week you are of course are are Brussels correspondent Do you WANNA take us into the into the beating heart of Belgium. I am of course are are Brussel Sprout. If you will and so in Belgium child capital of the world to fascinating stories again it is the gift that keeps on giving the first I that charges were dropped against Belgian soccer fans who sang about. What are they saying about go team? We like soccer. No they sang. Hang about burning Jews. The decision follows a string of incidents that JT reports in which Belgian authorities were seen to be lacks an anti Semitic hate speech. Some of the songs that they sang ready for this. My father was in the commandos. My mother was in the S.. Together the Burn Jews Jews because Jews burn the best. I think we've heard this before this is like beat poetry right. Didn't didn't fathers into commandos. My mother was India's s together. They heard Jews because Jews burned the best. So weird I just like. Why are people obsessed with running Jews? It just freaks me out because they are filthy both the antisemites in this irredeemable Shithole of a country but that is not all also in in Belgian town that his his famous at least in this podcast for having ridiculously crazy anti Semitic floats in this parade. And we're not talking like subtle stuff we're talking like twelve twelve foot long noses you know puppets throwing money in the air a Belgian town that has sparked outrage for featuring an anti Semitic float reports the Jerusalem Post in its renowned carnival has decided to renounce their UN cultural heritage status after dealing with the accusations that they were anti Semitic in other words the town of almost which had its carnival editor UNESCO's representative list of the intangible Cultural Heritage Heritage of humanity in twenty ten which shows you just how low the bar truly is decided to give up its special status as a United Nations protected could cultural site just so it wouldn't have to stop being crazy anti Semitic I mean that is said Said Said said their representative financer antisemitic racist also people who support this acting in bad face iced for obviously main capital of mockery and satire. Yeah I mean this is depressing. Does that about this week. Do we have anything not well. We have the Louis C. K.. Item you WANNA take. You WanNa take us to Israel where of comedy and satire. Yes wow I thought we could get away with. Never talking about Louis C. K.. On the show but it turns out we have to because Louis. CK was in Israel at a comedy club outside Tel Aviv. And he said and I am quoting him I'd rather be an Auschwitz than New York City. I mean now. Not when he was open. Apparently the audience was laughing and clapping and the remark was basically about like the spotlight. That's on him in New York City. I do not understand this joke. It is supremely unfunny to me. He'd rather be an Auschwitz now. Well what he was saying is new. York's really bad for me. 'cause he's saying they don't have the tolerance sense of humor that you Israelis have that. That's his line that I mean I I will say on the fourth reading of it. I did laugh because I realized the beat comes. Where he says you know I'd rather be an Auschwitz that your city I mean now not when Auschwitz was actually the open like it's just the sort of like humans he'd rather be hanging out in Oswiecim Poland? That New York's FIETSAM. I always get that wrong. But here's the thing I would say like. I don't know I just think that's like a cheap shot and people laugh but it's like dude. Let don't Dave talking about Auschwitz. Just like go away for a little bit longer. You're up but I I think I think it's his form of paneling through the crowd. It's like saying Shalom Tel Aviv Auschwitz offensive. It's kind of like shout out to the local culture. Sure you know what's so interesting is that he's doing sold out shows in Slovakia and then he's doing some performances in Hungary and he's doing Israel so apparently he still big in Europe and there's no Jewish angle to this whatsoever ever accept that apparently Louis C. K.. Paternal grandfather was Jewish. Have we come. We don't know that it's always reported. If you go on Google. Those say that like his his dad's dad was Jud. Ah Grandfather wants masturbated in front of someone who is Jewish. That's humane but what abby. Somebody here is GRANDPA like we'll claim to have been at a Bar Mitzvah with Louis. CK'S GRANDPA if so. Yeah I need proof before I'm bill. I'm a believer. That J. crew were crowdsourcing issue. Nine one four five seven four eight six nine wait look Auschwitz wasn't so bad for my people. Okay here's another thing I've got A. I've had a very weird Jerry Louis C. K.. which is I used to not be able to deal with with him because everyone thought he was the greatest comic genius ever and they all you have to watch the early episodes of his first show no actually his season for the second show? No the third standup special and I was like whatever whatever. He's mildly funny but I actually like my jokes obvious and funny and not sort of like weird in subtle and arty and all that stuff. I wasn't into him. Then then it turns out that he's like pervy pervent Heimer and so obviously I'm not into him now. I just had. I've had a journey of like wishing that he just weren't such a factor in the culture. I've question are the pervy. pervent hammers related at all. All to the Oppenheimer is like back in the old country. No they're actually. They're German Lutherans. I thought they were. They were one of your grandfather's seven wives where the Previn Mannheimer only one of his six wives was Jewish at all he had one Jewish wife my grandmother and five gentile wives so I'm either of them was a proven Heimer that in your J. Press Oxford caller and button it. Okay The newest Jewish Encyclopedia. Let's talk about it. People should have a copy or seven seven for Hanukkah. Do we agree air. Great Gifts and the funny thing is that we've been on the road and people are getting like a book for their son Book for their daughter a book for their mother-in-law and it's like actually actually the perfect gift because it's because people will learn about Hanukkah in it and that it's actually not the Jewish Christmas and that it's not that important but I love the idea of giving a Jewish gift for Hanukkah instead of like the latest hot wheels of present and it's really really fun it's sparkly and Shiny and it makes a great coffee table book it will fit in your son-in-law's son-in-law's Christmas stocking as well. Hey if people want to see us live we are everywhere. GO TO TABLET MAG dot com slash unorthodox live. We tend to have our book available for sale wherever you will find us if you want to read along with our show some people have reached out and said Hey. Could you tell us who the author's coming up on the shore. Maybe I'll get their book and you know. Read ahead so the interview. Who means a little more to me absolutely an upcoming episode? For example we'll feature Sara Hurwitz. Who is the author of Hero? Along finding meaning spirituality and a deeper connection to life in Judaism After finally choosing to look there yet the book and listen for her on an upcoming episode suit and do do we sat down with power couple. Simon Dudin Jonathan Adler author and fashion. East do not return to the show to discuss. His new book dragged complete story. Jonathan Adler where is the potter designer and author behind the Jonathan Adler Home Decor Empire. This conversation was really really interesting. And we're really excited for you to listen. Yeah we hear Simon Dune who returns for his third gentile of the week visit to tell us about his newest book. Drag the complete story. We also figured it was about route time. We invited his Jewish husband the pomace designer Jonathan Adler on the show as well. Welcome to you both. Welcome Gentlemen Oh la La Shalom home if you will Shalom Shimon Dune onison Adler. I'm sorry we haven't had you on the show before it's kind of awkward actually that we've had Simon three times time. It's a little auks but you know I figure it's time to it's a new year. Yes time to sort of build. Bridges put the past behind us. And looking at the two of you. I'm I'M GONNA go ahead and guess that Shimon here is the one who who brings a lot of the year despite into the relationship. Am I correct. Yes he actually is like us all all the time because he's been a governmental for Millennia. Very very old so he's been around forever and I actually thought he was Jewish forever. We finally got his DNA done. And I was like like. Oh He's at least fifty per I thought he was going to be fifty percent. Jewish like maybe a twenty percent. Gentile thirty percent Chihuahua cut 202. News Zero Ju Tartan outfits and put a leash on. He's not the tallest person hurt. But I'm so glad you've elected to join us. I'm one of and my third periods tablet Johnny greater so the punchline me you've got his DNA done and Nada Zilch Zero Jewish but like eight percent Chihuahua more than Elizabeth. Warren is native. Nafta and you Jonathan did you have your DNA. I haven't had it done and I'll tell you I'm like very very invested in the idea that I am hundred percent and I don't really WanNa get I find it very UN mooring. My Dad was excited to find out. He was one percent neanderthal. which is something they tell you? I don't know what it means. Ninety seven point one percent Ashkenazi is. That wasn't obvious by looking at me but I'm one percent north African which have taken. I've really embraced thank Sephardic indefinitely. Yeah it's like Libyan something you know. It's not as cool as it sounds. Did you think was the racy ancestor. I think. So too crazy roughhouses. I've met your mom and she seems like she would be. He's got that one a while back. My heritage dot com gave us some free tests and we were going to do a show in which we did a review. It was so boring. Literally one hundred Percent Nausea Stephanie Oppenheimer Liebowitz and Budnick. Reveal everything. Before we get to you Simon to your new book I WanNa give. Jonathan are Jewish Esoteric. Let's start from the beginning by talking about your bar. Mitzvah had a great theme. Well actually that this is kind of cruel moment because no my permits. That didn't have agreed theme. So thank you Stephanie. For money and this is an important lesson that everyone can take from this this year before my permits but I went to Maury Strauss's bar Mitzvah Maury was the son of a podiatrist and they had a pool shaped like a foot and yeah yeah they were living. It was the seven pitches. I love it get crappy farm town in southern New Jersey but the Strauss's were bringing it and Maurice Permits but was El Al themed. Everyone was purple. The waitresses were dressed like stewardesses. Cut Two guys that refused to sit next to women every klay shouting permits and growing up in wasp planned in western Massachusetts. I fantasized that in Jersey. There were foot shaped pools and El allow themed Bar Mitzvahs and there were. He will not in my jurors different story. Different Jersey. Murray Straus was living. Then the Pie. You were on the cuss. I was on the cusp of preppy. And I sort of saw preppy cresting. And you know. I always like to think that I can truffle out. Future trend and so I- elected to no more like preppy theme Bar Mitzvah so it was very very understated and looking back. I really regret it and I think one should always like embrace. Whatever the cultural moment isn't take it to eleven like anybody who said disco sucks just missed out on a great party and I am? The person who said disco sucks. But it's sort of ten. You're the rest of your life right. This idea of having a very understated bar Mitzvah in this like aspirational preppy. Aesthetic is kind of hilarious. Because then you basically like push back against against that to to the other extreme. Well I feel your work I feel like in order to be noticed you need to like really go for it and be trae but before we leave the Bar Mitzvah behind something of an amateur amateur scholar of prep. Tim I have to ask. How did you do over the PREP CIGNA? Fires were the t shirts you're handing out Madras teeshirt not shirts. It felt more like a high GOI kind of party. I wore like a brooks trump's brothers suit nice. It was just sedate and understated to there was nothing even didn't even say Barmitzvah except for my Really croaky rookie. huff Torah which ruin the story. You at a country club party is what yeah with a little off tour with a little off tour as the toast basically toads. Yeah I love that. I would have enjoyed that. Not everyone knew that that was the maybe. And that's even the better part. It was themed. The theme was Judaism as we say. I think you left out of really good bit. Which is the backstory of your great grandparents coming to this town egg farmers not that Long Ago Jersey farmer people? Yeah that's the thing. There was the farming Jews that the settlement groups dispersed as my peoples. So I grew up in a crappy farm town crappy. I grew up in a farm town in southern new New Jersey and my great grandparents Moved there my great grandfather built a little tiny shore in the middle of a field that still there and it's called the Garden Road Synagogue. I'm your listeners should look it up. It's really incredible. It's where I used to go to high holiday services. It's still there it's tiny it's like one room one room show house one room. She'll house in in a field and it's really incredible and then my grandfather grew up on the farm became a lawyer and a judge and my dad then grew grew up there and became a lawyer in sort of like intervene sophisticat trapped in a tiny farm town. And that's where I grew up. It was and my mom was like living in New York working at vogue when they met and he sort of like kidnapped turn like took her down to the farm. And this is very me right. It's very green acres of your. Your people weren't the kind of people who built the kind of like flashy big pools shape put pools feet. I wish I write Flores House Johnny Glamour House but all I ever wanted was for them to be more like business Jews. Unfortunately they were like our intellectual. Oh they were they were booked Jews and you wanted to be Mike just what I wanted to ask so it seems to me like you're stuck between a rock and hard place right. There's the flashy Jews that makes sense because they're fun and out drain out there and then there are the gorge farmers are like you know they have their thing going and here. You are in the middle occupying what occupying a very marginalized space. I very much relate to colonial colonial people because I feel like I had colonial childhood. We always felt sort of superior to the natives but completely marginalized from the native. So that was kind of my thing. You know my family Israel do you think where do you think they fall in the spectrum of intellectual business I think the farming thing and then the the sort of intellectual thing your dad went to university versus Chicago Blah Blah Blah. They're sort of groovy combination of down to earth and high brow It's a good Combo. How'd you guys meet? We can't really talk about that. Nokia often people meet under very unusual. Circumstance is just a setup from Yennega called Gerard who South Africa forgotten and he set us up on a date. Manta derived Guy Nassar Art to bring it back to the issue of drag. It seems to be like the prep was a little bit of a kind of a drag act right as dressing pressing up as some kind of culture trying to kind of make it up flashier and more colorful than it is that you didn't truly occupy just to kind of well colonize it. Yeah I reckon it is. I mean you know I think Sleiman will attest drag has many meanings. Yeah I think one in the quest for identity you probably have to try try on a few different types of drag and then finally fifty years later. I landed on my true drag white jeans and Tom Brown sweater. That's did you find that it was in middle age that you figured out what your look was I think so. Yeah Yeah I think there happens to most people. I mean that's how it should happen. where all kinds of crazy stuff and experiment and be a complete looney and be very free about what you were and then you end up? Just organically honing your look down then and you end up with you. Look so you're Simone Beauvoir you've got a turban Turtleneck you've got you look semester drills but then there's remarkable people who seem to know who they are our fashion wise style wise at age nine and they just they nailed it and stay that way. Usually they'll nail themselves as like an experiment or you know I was somebody who's a very rigid and conservative. You know they'll identify themselves in a broader way but in terms of the actual look itself. I think it comes together by the time you Middle Age. Who was born with no style and you understand that at a very early age and yeah just just wear whatever clothes you could find? I think you're pulling it together. got a little jaunty scarf on for. Let's talk about what you're wearing if you're wearing a flannel shirt. A green vest took barbour jacket with the sleeves cut off. Yeah like a finance Bro S. I'm wearing four of the six things I L. Like maybe like a Kefiah asks Kefir Gene. Jason so yeah very I was going to say. Oh you really need is the Subaru in the two golden retrievers a very very clear. Actually that's true and which brings us to your beard which is fallen robust. Yeah Subaru Ish Yup and glimpsed. But the mostly weren't letting your crowning glory is your main. You have your blessed with fantastic hair Mazal Tov see this is. This is a topic that mark and I are a little bit competitive about we each. Have I honored your heart. Art Honor Your hair and honor. Mom Stay. I honored the dividends in leading doing what we really need you here in order to have these conversations that we need to have you know who has better hair and I'm just I'll tell you after the show off their no under Stephanie's is mad talking about them on the dudes affair law fair before we get to drag and slamming. which I like that? Thank you for your name. That's rush limbaugh on Slivovitz so while you're there in Chicken Farming Land New Jersey up now we understand. Your mother worked at Vogue so there was some right is that what. Yeah it was very greenacres greenacres. So when did you first begin thinking you wanted to be a designer. And what were the first thing that influenced you visually. So I went to this Hippie dippy summer camp called Apple Farm in in Southern Jersey. Still we're still more than southern New Jersey Exit. Are we talking here and is a Turnpike or parkway. We'll funny should ask. It's forty five minutes from the nearest highway exit to to exit to but that was like time to make the journey to exit to to start to start the next leg of the journey so I am like isolated isolated AF anyway go to summer camp. Try Pottery because the pottery counselor was super hot touch clay and it was on it was just on on so I was like twelve and then new I wanted to be potter. which is ridiculous? Was It on tactile. Like it was the feel of the Clare or what you could make with it or are I have no idea. It was just mysterious. It was just like I tried to and I became obsessed and like a pottery nerd throughout my life and always I kind of have to authentic. The identity is on the one hand I am very much like a lesbian. Joni Mitchell birkenstock pot. Like you know you Leo. You and I have a big less northern northern Israel Vegetarian Authentic Joni Mitchell's playing. I'm wearing birkenstocks. And then I'm authentically JAP and those are two very challenging identifies to integrate. Yeah wear clogs questions. Everything about my identity challenged it when you drop a kid off at summer camp that you do do see the people who like down in the city the Mo she's a Jap but she's driving her daughter up to the country for for summer camps. He's taken out the woven things. Yeah but they don't. It's not true through for them. See what the truth civility start getting together well I Jonathan Adler suitability. Gay Come to pottery nerd trapped upped it home in southern New Jersey and I am spending my entire High School Years Smoking Pot in my studio in the basement of our house listening to Grace Jones dreaming wing of coming to New York so I kinda there was like all the strains were percolating so for someone who doesn't have a colorful jar in their kitchen. That says like uppers for like gluten. Like could you a sense of what it is that you make today. And if someone's walked by Jonathan other store what they might see in there I make a range of stuff for the home ranging ranging from Sheikh and classique furniture. That is I think just kind of modern to accessories that are cheeky and Sheikh. Think and it's Kinda everything for the home slime shrimp. Tell me why. I think you're probably don't see it so objectively but when I won't buy your story see like a couch. Josh shaped like a cloud on it is a beaded pillow that might have a huge payroll lips on it. So it's like kind of high voltage glamour. Yeah can you go in there. And get more straightforward decorative things. That are beautiful. Yes where your your real comfort zone is like you just did that Glam. Rock Tutankhamun beated needlepoint pillow. So insane I don't even want part of your brain that came out of these huge lucite pill Dell's Valley of the dolls but then there are TV so these these that you have beautiful classic American Glamour. Yes but I do a lot of stuff. Then it's it's very crafty and kind of I'm obsessed with reform Jewish temples. Not Like I've always. I grew up going to conservative when I always saw the old classic prewar. The classic reform that we're kind of more short Emmanuel on Fifth Avenue new customer faced bad. Frank Lloyd Wright knock off. We'll now hold up. Don't be slacking diagnose. The Reform Temple community. I like the reformed postwar reform Like sort of organic modern sake the grid a high tech that has very particular vocabulary. It's kind of brutal list. Pews are really hard on your ass like those slab lab avangard architecture and they'll we'd get like an autism. Louise Nevelson to do the beamer and you know I. It was very daring crazy. Nothing like that was happening in my faith. And it's like the geometric pews type of thing and like the big stained glass yet whether yeah with it's a mix of sort of organic like it's sort of organic thing it's like Corbu as sharp taking lunatic out losin and and the Hebrew typeface that they do the ten commandments in behind the arc is always something you can't tell what it is like. Oh that's some sort of weird MODERNA Hebrew. Yes I do. I have a Mazda. That's inspired by that movement. Where it's like you can barely read? Whatever the hell that lives anyway? It's there but I mean the interesting thing about your Judaica specifically and I have a lot of it is like the peacock minority. You almost wouldn't know it was a minority. You can leave it out all year round the plate. If you didn't know what you were looking for you gotta pass unless you dress it up with some ferocious. Yeah that peacock doc minority if I may say is a triumph. It's really one of my better pieces. It is just pared down to like the most of elemental nature of itself. And it looks like it's supposed to be that way like I kind of uncovered it proud of that right. See this is the thing. It's it's fun and I cannot again stress enough. My my complete inadequacy in term it. There's a reason why even before we had salmon on the show and you're the only designer who I could name by name because I would would walk into a store and understand exactly what was going on because there's an actual personality there. That didn't seem like it was trying to kind of struck me to do something so he could look cooler. Be Part of it was just like hey man which which having fun with this thing. We own the pig Menora and it's just being Jewish in this way. That's like grays the blue I gotta get that's Minora. It's a really good Jewish. It's clearly interested in the thing that it's here celebrate. It's not here like Oh you have to do a minore which so dumb a bear saying. Let us dress it up as something like no man. We actually celebrate this design element because it's fun totes. Well I think slime and I share one of the I think our bond is that even though we both are whatever the hell we are designers or teeth S- risers whatever. We're neither snobby at all. We're very focused on being communicative Munich. And we both small town girls Florida way to the middle the third in the high stakes world of Pottinger window-dressing. So I mean you were on our second episode. You're sort of like a known quantity to the J. Crew. which is what we we call our listener very preppy? So tell us about drag the complete story. which is this real comprehensive survey of drag culture from in you know ancient civilizations to like Rupaul drag race The publisher Lawrence King. He's a fabulous guy. He said to me. Oh you should should do a history of drag. This is right after I did my football bright last online and so I thought about it and I thought why drag why my now but I love it. He wrote about football enough with the gay stuff. Now right about drags you man throw like that. I'm telling you out of the Locker Room Room into the illusions loud group Paul's drag race. It didn't feel like that big elite but anyway and I thought well what are the reasons to contract now unan. I sort of came out with four reasons. Why dragway now would you like to hear them? You know we have a president with a weird orange. WIG has like five people dress him in the morning. Bingo well there is. That's one of my reasons the politicisation of drag the trump bump we live in an era where Meryl Streep is dragging up Donald Trump. A lot of drag drag queens now have become very politicized so there's a new I have a chapter on radical drag a and. That's the end of the book because that is a period where living in now which I it's become. Become political radicals satire is back. Melissa McCarthy is Sean Spicer et Cetera et CETERA. Then there's the gender revolution that we're living in the middle of this new gender fluidity pronouns sort of deconstruction of Gender Androgen E. You know everywhere you look and much of. It has a dotted line to drag their straight women such as Stephanie who now identify as drag Queens. They're a young kids to be clear clear. Stephanie herself doesn't identify but you could do that. Right what are the other reasons as if those went repulsed drag race ripples drag race dominant cultural phenomenon which is sort of propelling. These other things would also part of these. Why this is such a big drag moment and Lawrence? That's me you know. They currently isn't an overview historic low view of drag. There's books about the history of dragging the theater. The IT Blah Blah Blah. So do you want to go so I took off my football cleats and minced into the illusions lounge. I just got on with it and it was a fun. Fun Book to do is Great. It's funny because repulsed. Drag race is so unbelievably popular. There are a lot of young people today who think drag is completely mainstream and that it isn't actually this counter cultural phenomenon that had to work against the mainstream for so long. Well that is sort of how I came at drag because our post Post War England. We will literally drowning and drag drag. Wasn't particularly marginal. It was on the TV every day. All straight comedian no self respecting male British comedy wouldn't do drag monty python right. They were always in drag drag drag. They usually did sort of played Horrifying old angry and angry women. Comedy drag is is unusual because historically been mostly straight men doing sort of very grotesque has semi misogynistic poetry of women and women got their own back for many millennia. Women impersonating men in such rising mail. toxic musk and see that was a huge thing. At the turn of the century with Hetty King and all these drag kings made of absolute fortune and they were hugely famous and dominated the musical world back at the turn of the century. So it's tit for tat and the the history that Dr King is every bit as impressive though you know honestly not as dominant now. There's no drag king version of repulse drag race but you. Maybe that's because men's clothes on so I don't know do you think come on. I have this big overall cultural question about this current political moment. A lot of stuff is becoming highly highly sort of flammable political and as a part of me that really loves it because. Hey It's really fun to watch. Melissa McCarthy do Sean Spicer and like really put these skills and these traditions to work for for this higher cost but at the same time I kind of worry that it all just flame out and we we would never be able to look at that particular art form without assigning to it some kind of political slash partisan meaning. Do you think about this. Have we reached kind of this is cultural moments in which dragon and a lot of other things with it. Going from comedy to politics kind of run a risk of of really being too hot to handle of losing the fun. Yeah exactly of losing the in the media. I think regular people people out in the world on so embroiled in politics. They don't think think about it all the time they like. Oh wiz that wig barred for me I want it back. I WANNA do Dusty Springfield Sunday night. Like they're not as is it definitely of your immediate postseason as you guys are. I'm not critiquing. I'm you get in this head. Where everything's this washing machine of politics six and you go out in the world and people just like Shit? What are we going to have for dinner? But also drag Queens have always been the most marginalized freaks in culture like who seem yes. Some of them are political. But I think a lot of people do drag because they just they have no choice but to do it and they're just sort of lunatics. So Oh I think they're not that politicized no there You know it's a dream is is feeling you know feeling good about yourself. 'cause drag is incredibly empowering let's say for example Johnny and I were like both undersized and say we went behind that screen and dragged up and it takes about five hours when we came out. We'd be a good eighteen inches tola. We'd have shoes on an enormous week. We'd be terrifying mm-hmm we would have this new kind of power like Medusa. You know you wouldn't be. We'd be staring down. We wanting submission from the other people the room. There's something very much power grab about drag for men and women kings to there was a moment. I remember when a good friend of mine who was very very immersed in feminist theory was telling me that the feminist grit in the in the theoretical critical matrix. Feminism drag is very bad news. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about right. I mean there's a that it sort of takes femininity and takes women and puts them in service to a kind of grossly stereotyped male. Idea of what femininity looks like. An eye was never particularly persuaded by by this. But do people worry about that. Or was that just in. Nineteen ninety-seven is Many theories about drag and they all kind of exists concurrently. There's another theory. Sorry from the nineties that men are infatuated with the idea of dressings woman because women over history have retained ownership of the visual visual realm. So for example. You're in a restaurant. Linda eventually circle schiffer walk in whole room stops and they can basically asked what they want everyone will buy them drinks. They don't have to be accountable for anything they just show up and they have this unbelievable power over people. That's why the top models roles of women. They paid a lot more than men porn. Same thing women make more money so women have retained power over this visual realm. Now many women in question that do we want that kind of power Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. But there were these theories that certain types of drag is done for men do it to describe some of that to be gazed at and to be not accountable for anything just to be gorgeous and show up and be worshiped and like that sort of a lot of men who quote Unquote Cross stress. Describe that feeling of fun can relax. I put on a frog and I relaxed because I just have to be that. I'm not accountable for anything which is again sort of misogynist if you look at what's underpinning that but I think that a lot of men then described the exhilaration of that moment of and was jealous of it seeing that women have that Marilyn male Marilyn Monroe's or Jean Harlow Carlos or the golden age of Hollywood was about that Gene Hackman that he really how standing over a subway. I WANNA go. I WANNA go Autry Lordy. I WANNA go back for two seconds to the political moment I think about the two of you in your respective fields as kind of the high priests of Joy Oy in or whatever it is that you do it really exudes a sense of just whatever it is on and and you know just like real kind of just like enjoyment of of life and we live in this no matter what you think where you are politically terrible grim political moment where everyone is hysterical and stressed out and everything is hashtag resistance cancelled culture. How do you personally deal with that? How do you create Bro? She I WANNA go. I'M GONNA kick this one off. Because it is a minefield ops and I try in my professional life. I try to actually stay quite a political because I make stuff. I want to sell stuff stuff. It's a nonpartisan endeavor and you know I try just to make my stuff extremely personal which is important in terms of my own? It's funny when you say like I'm I'm joy person because I'm actually like most people the exact opposite of what I appear and Paul Johnson. The historian wrote this book called intellectuals about how sort of most intellectual throughout history have been the exact opposite of what they appear like Russo. Who is all about the innate greatness humanity fathered like eighty five illegitimate admit children who left to die in an orphanage or Karl Marx had a slave his entire life? So I think about that all the time because you might I in as much as I have a persona it. It is sort of joyful but the truth is Simon Calls Me Arianna Kafka because I am half Ariana Grande like to sort of come up with creative ideas one it has to be like sort of a buoyant pop princess but to make them real. You need torture them into their best selves. And that's where I'm I'm kind of a a little more Franz Kafka like I'm kind of more of a brooding depressive intellectual who takes these my Arianna Guerande and makes them real with a lot of waited for you then it's the best of all possible time the political part of it and just just a whole kind of mess like extraordinarily engaged with culture but in terms of my Tried to be personal insular and kind of just follow my path and try to. It's really hard and there's a lot law of Michigan's like for instance. I made this that Simon teach you that word by yet he did. Thanks Shrimp No I'll tell you really stupid story. I make needlepoint pillows. You know I make gifts And so we were sitting around in our office one day. Somebody said Oh we need like a ninety eight dollar price. Point like novelty needlepoint pillow has great will do personality. Pillows pillows will do like honest lawyer Corporate Hippie just like my grandfather used call my grandmother the boss lady did boss Lady and three did all all these pillows that were great they were huge and then I came into my office one day. And everyone's having these like closed door meetings and they were like We need to talk about the boss Lady Situation Nation and I was like what and they all these pillars. And if you're saying corporate hippie an oxymoron you say honest bankers oxymoron and there's an online fat while against and stuff because of the boss lady pillow because you're saying that off that ladies can't be bosses and I was like that is the single stupidest thing I've ever heard and and a longtime but here's the interesting bit about it that it's Germane so for me. I'm just like that's ridiculous. Like thank you next but for the kids who worked for me the Bosley Bosley boss Lady Gate has gone down in the annals history as a real moment and I can see they still parts everything through the lens of the boss Lady Gate and it's made my colleagues much more timid so I might challenge is now to like continue to make things as ridiculous as a boss lady pillow and I hear so much pushback from all of my great creative smart operatives. Were younger than me. And who think that boss Lady Gate had some validity which which of course it didn't I work with college students a lot and I've had this conversation with them where they've said what was how are things different when you were in college and I say the number one thing was. We often just laughed at stuff. Often had without torturing it politically even the same stuff that today we would torture like back then. We literally wouldn't have thought that we would have had fun. We were humid the and they have this moment. You can see the sort of looks. Passover there is where at first they think. But how irresponsible of you. And then they think that must've been amazing. You just got to enjoy it you know and I think the answer is don't hire anyone under thirty five. That's a good idea because I think even these twenty five rose will grow life will teach them that you have to seize joy where you can. Yes it's clean in not hire anyone under thirty five. 'cause hell they be creative environment where they will learn we'll do diy stuff in their basement ready for job. My operatives are as good as it gets and they're fantastic antastic. I love the kids. Were from there so creative and great but operatives who call him that kind of But the the truth is they cannot help it so boss lady gate really is in their bones and like Lionel Shriver calls it Militias misinterpretation when people. We'll drudge up things like that and maliciously misinterpret them. And I told my kids and I've told them the idea of like even acknowledging cultural appropriation as a things like losing the battle but they can't help it they actually think it's a thing it's not. I mean I will say that the boss lady pillow just went to order it. It is out of stock. That's what here's marketplace wins drag and you're suited like women's studies. Major thing is like the people who are parsing. These issues through that Lens are very small. In number people love boss Lady Pillow. Women Love Ru Paul's drag race. All the girls mouth is obsessed with it. They're not troubled by they. Don't don't find it problematic. Because they're real people who don't use the word problematic okay. P- took us off some Jewish drag artists. Like who should we be following. We need to make everything Jewish so we have to talk about Barbara because first of all she's the inspiration to so many drag Queens Guy. Jim Bailey used impersonate her her in the sixties. Do you remember him. He did Judy Garland to. Can you tell me why. And and a follow up question. Can you explain Barbara to me. Because I really don't on honest like Shit Barbara all the time and I'm just like you don't get it and you don't get how important you are ready to convert. I'm truly am just just to get away from the Barbara D me. It didn't go to a bar lover. I JUST WANNA I'm ready to come in and Piscopo you escape. NFL Just Justin Barber host. A podcast. I think like like when she was young in the sixties she was completely unique. Very groovy unusual blah blah blah. You gotta give it up for sixties bobber with that. Siamese cat look in the hair. I mean Jesus Christ she was only lead and yeah. She took a lot of crat for being a prominent wouldn't Jewish girl at that time like she had to deal with an immense amount of stuff. I don't know I don't think about her very much. I'm not that person with twelve thousand Baba records. I did have a CD OF JIM. Appel Barbara just shut door. Jim Appel PA wobbles in French. She's very accomplished. She's in my book because of mental. where she she directed it? She's in it she wrote it. She drags up in it. You know like Now she's very accomplished and easy to make fun of her because she is like an extreme camp figure. So Y- enjoy barbour. Don't this Barbara Barbara and understand that like she's emblematic of a mysterious force engaged culture. which is that gays are obsessed with women who are strange range like judge Hershey show alleged? She's improbable it's sort of a mystical magical force that you can't even begin to try to understand intellectually actually just accept but they're also must be some ochre. Outsider needs to Herat like carnival. We love a tragic diva. We can't help it although once you so you must meet a gay man who just like what what you're talking about. You're talking to two of them. Who are like whatevs? We didn't we understand. Yeah I get the icons. We don't have ramparts of Judy Garland that which is fine. You know like that wasn't my jam. Like I was more into Glam Rock Bowie and stuff flicked that but anyway I want you next time I come I wanna hear you crooning Jim Appel Barbara. I promise you I will go home today. I will download load. I want you to buy vinyl by the also unbelievably funny like what's up. Doc is a great movie the Allen Pussy seacat movies. No she's genius have seen her cloned dogs. That's pretty funny. That live in the underground layer with James James Brolin and the street of shops in her basement. Right is this mighty seen against her is that she abandoned her talent to become a weird people magazine. Back of the book page. But that's part of the whole thing again you're not with to gaze who embrace it but we fully accept it. Interestingly the kids in my office Brittany's there Barbara time moves conspiracy. Yeah no it's getting. She's and she's entering the cannon. Can I answer your question about the roiling boiling turmoil of how do you Blah Blah Blah before this is like this is how I know your gentleness you've waited lightly are asking. The question got interrupted like ten minutes ago. Genesis Genesis I'll so the history is enormously reassuring you look at his G.. Look at my book. You'll see that life was much worse in the past cost and we're actually living in an utopia but the media. facebook twitter does not support that idea that we're living in Utopia. When I don't I'm not on on facebook I'm not on twitter? Neither Johnny when I walk down the street get on the subway. Go to the Bronx go to Brooklyn. I don't see anything once in a while. You see awesome antisocial behavior. The rest of the time. I see people helping each other being very nice to each other so I think you gotTa know your history to really understand the Times reliving and the brutality of horror of history and then be stay off that create a you on twitter. NOPE that's great. You shut down your account. No but I never gone shift to join me and shutting down the account so I guess we're not GonNa get the Jonathan Adler needlepoint Internet famous for all of us to share. Okay if you want to go to Jonathan Adler Dot Com and you can find a Cornucopia of laren masterpieces lease and the stores are way a much bigger pledge. Manson the stores don't carry it. You could get dragged the complete story at an independent bookstore near you knowing that one hundred percent of the author proceeds benefit the Allie Phoney censure in Harlem helping LGBTQ kids who are homeless Amen. Thank you guys for being here. I think you're our first official unorthodox a couple of the week all Shalom Shalom of every week. And now thank you so much. The only question that matters who has better here. What do you think I'm GONNA say? And as to that question that we left hanging about who has better hair me or Lee al.. Jonathan did sort of stage. Whisper answer after we cut off the mics. But we're not gonna GonNa tell you maybe some of you have opinions Go take a look at me and Lee Al in R. J. Press Shirts and our our our hairstyles tell us what you think. UNORTHODOX TALBOTT MAG DOT COM or nine one four five seven four eight six nine unorthodox the podcast. That constantly needs your validation. You Know J. Crew One of the privileges of doing this. PODCAST is hearing. How many of you you who write to us or come up to us at our live shows or call into our listener line? How many of you are on some sort of journey? You're delving more deeply into your spirituality or you're learning more and for some of you not for a lot of you but for some of you are wondering if you hear this little voice whispering that you should become a Jewish professional whether it's a rabbi or cantor her or an educator you see that the world has broken nests and you think that Judaism might be a way to help fix that and that you might be called to play some mm sort of professional role in doing that. If you even have had that inkling please learn a little bit more about Hebrew College. He college is vibrant and joyous pluralistic community. It enables aspiring rabbis. CANTORS rosins to find their voice as they cultivate an honest authentic expression of Judaism as they drink deeply from the well of Jewish tradition in a rigorous Chris Academic Program and as they learn to lead diverse communities with skill and with open heart. This is the college I would go to if I ever studying for the rabbinate in fact it's president Sharon Cohen. NFL Did my wedding to sit back in two thousand five and I feel really deep connection to the place so look applications for fall twenty twenty or do January fifteenth go to Hebrew Abreu College Dot Edu slash explore. There's no commitment to just going to the website. So encourage you if you think that this message is speaking to you who to Hebrew College Dot. Edu You smash explore looking for the perfect Hanukkah gift for the fruity in your life. Get Them Edina. Sustenance new Israel Cookbooks Abbaba named a best fall. Twenty thousand nine cookbook. By The New York Times bone apetite magazines Baba shares the vibrant flavors of was really home cooking and all their staggering variety Dina was on our show this fall telling us all about the Book Checkout Episode One Hundred Ninety Four. You're more from her. I love making the Tahini smoothies with these. And the Tahini blondie. This book has greatly increased. Might Athenee consumption. And I'm really grateful for that For Hanukkah I'm GonNa try the green. Shucks you over crispy Lucas and can you can to get a copy of Baba at your favorite bookstore today. Hi J. crew. I'm excited to tell you about a new sponsor just in time for your Hanukkah gifting as you might have heard. I am newly obsessed with the heating. The Middle Eastern sesame based spread and soon food sell some of the most delicious Tahini and Tahini products that I have ever faced soon. Foods was founded by three sisters beamy shelby and Jackie. After they were introduced agreed to Kenyan Israel. They knew that he was delicious versatile and nutritious but they couldn't find the quality they wanted in the US so they started their own company in two thousand thirteen to bring high quality to the American market. Now they sell to many many of the country's best restaurants including Zahava in Philadelphia. The products are dairy. Free Nut Free Gluten Free and certified kosher and you can get them yourself. The way go is with their pantry. Sampler it's a bundle of all three products Tahini chocolate sweet to human spread and Ceylon Date Syrup had assumed foods dot com. That's S. O.. M. MM-HMM FOODS DOT COM and use code unorthodox to receive fifty percent of your order. It's a great Hanukkah gift and you're definitely going to want to get some for yourself to that soon. Foods Dot Akam Discount Code Unorthodox. Our next guest is Steve Chaggaris. He's the founder and director of one day university where mark has taught a course it brings interesting speakers to people across the country. And he tells us about that and his former run-ins in in with someone named trump Steven schrage guess genuinely has had such an interesting career that I really did want to talk to him. And here's something about his professional journey which includes One Donald Trump over the years and also also include spy magazine. And just a really really interesting journey. So Stephen Welcome. Thank you absolutely so before we go any further. Tell our listeners quickly. If they don't know what one day university is what is it. We put on events. We identify the professor or professors and each of about one hundred different schools at students say this is a great professor. They could be a history professor and science professor. Whatever that person WHO's so popular teaches we contact that individual and ask them to do a one hour lecture for somewhat older audience on that sub? So it's a chance for older people who are out of college to go back to college for going to college but there's no homework or exams okay. So you who put on these events all over. The country participated in some and leaving me aside to the single best lecturer that you've promoted to these. It's very hard to send that because you were saying who. Who's your favorite child all your children? There's one in particular called Hamilton versus Jefferson by Professor Lewis. Maser was a history professor at Rutgers Who explains the thinking of both of them and how different they were but how together they pretty much created? What America is he is just a brilliant speaker and professor and in fact? PBS recently recorded. It's going to be PBS special. What if I said pick three? GIMME quickly to more to more awesome. One Catherine Sanderson from Amherst teaches which is a class called the science of happiness which is just fascinating scientifically looking at what does make people happy. And what doesn't and how. It's the same in almost every country. Just a brilliant lecturer and she is she is wildly popular at Amherst. You can't these professors. You haven't heard of them off their campus but on I'm capital rockstars. Walking around with them. Like walking around with Mick Jagger right the last one I would probably say Catherine winter from Stanford has a class renew class now now called what historians don't know Stonehenge is one of them. Yeah but there's eight or nine more. We just don't know what happened. Just things have been and all the different theories is and how we get to them like what George Washington actually sound like things like that right and you can do research into this right. You just can't be sure and I never heard anything like that before but that sounds it was fun you are sort of someone who professionalize is the amateur impulse right. I mean if you go back to I would argue. This even applies is your work. You were one of the investors in spy magazine. The satirical magazine in the eighties were great. And Carter who went on to edit vanity. Fair had one of his early jobs. Kurt Andersen the novelist now public public radio host and that was taking a sort of high brow art satirical or comedic sensibility and putting it in this magazine that was selling on newsstands everywhere. Then and you went to the learning annex where you ended up one of the top executives right and that was also well. I mean in some ways you know before you could go on Youtube and learn how to cut hair. The learning annex was basically got an amateur education. If you couldn't enroll in school I say okay. So what was the learning at a group that created lectures with this theory. What better way to learn than from an actual practitioner? You want to open a coffee shop. Learn from someone who's open five coffeeshops if learning annex around today. How do you start a podcast? Fine people who've started podcast and let them teach you so there was no internet. Then right we'd bring together these people who wanted to learn not not a whole course not a degree but a three or four hour seminar and you bring people who are practitioners like the idea of being a teacher so you'd find a coffee shop owner owner and say hey. Do you want to give a class in coffee shop owning. Yeah find a hall for them to lecture and the cell the course catalog. They always say yes they always did you pay them they they got a percentage of the income the real movers and shakers got a guaranteed payment. We we offer donald trump a five hundred dollar guaranteed payment thinking. That was a a big deal. Did he say he immediately said yes and this was the very first race sell. You don't have to pay me anything but I want a certain amount of guaranteed promotion No one had ever said that to me in years I'm not a fan of Donald trump and I don't like to talk about the affiliation that much but I will say I never saw saw promotion at that level until I met him. Give us a taste here. So you're working for the learning annex this is the mid early mid two thousand four two thousand five you decide you WanNa do a course or another course in real estate investing. He's a big name in it already. Did you approach him. Did he approach you. Do know approached him. We had of course called Hannah. Make money in real estate taint. Generally you would hire developers. There are a lot of them and it was getting more. It was always a popular of course but it was really getting popular so we approached this developer named Donald Trump. This just a little before the apprentice right. That came out while he was doing the he was known as the big league right but this was not what it later right. It wasn't the apprentice and he wasn't that hard to get to and and he said yes but I wanNA make sure if we do it we do it big. No one had ever said that before and so did he work with your marketing people and tell them here's how to do it or did he just say do it right you know. We had a magazine and he wanted to be on the cover three times. He you wanted certain promotion a banner at the Lincoln Tunnel. He was basically saying. You don't need money I I want publicity expose and he was. We had no idea how big it could be. I mean I will tell you at that time. A large class was maybe fifty people but we were thinking big we could get get five hundred people from Mr Trump but we didn't we got thirty one thousand people for one class or a series of no for three hour presentation ended up at the Javits Center. Thirty one thousand people were they paying sixty nine eighty nine something like that so this is like have your profit for the year at the learning. I mean it was. It was huge huge. It was never saw anything like. Did you ever do it again. He did it. Maybe a dozen times always that big or after a while. I left after the second one. I want to do it anymore. But it went on and it became a very big was his class good was motivational. There was called. Think big. How can you succeed? You GotTa think you're going to succeed. You don't think you can do these things and you will like me. was he a good speaker yes he was a very good speed but that message is kind of Horse Shit Right. I mean you've been in real estate. You've made money in real estate just believing you can do it. It's her status It depends what you're talking to mark of you. You said. I really want to be a real estate developer. Maybe you could succeed. Probably you could succeed. And the way money was lent then and no re- recourse loans you. You could make it happen right out of people do but if but if the people who came was different than we had ever seen before to without going into too many details these these were not people who are going to become rich and real estate these were real schlemiel these people. You felt bad taking their sixty nine dollars because they couldn't really afford. Is that part of why you left. Yes so what'd you do after. Turn that I started when the university I left learning annex in two thousand and five and then I started. I had the idea for one day university while I was at learning annex and then I left to start in two thousand six. So you've been doing this now for almost fourteen years and one day university you've worked with hundreds of professors as I said you've probably seen as many different aren't university lecturers as possibly any in the world. It's a really interesting urge. Maybe these are people who write books and I say this as someone who's been graduate school who who wrote an academic book that I Don't go back and reread to put it mildly. These are people write books that often pretty difficult even for very bright people to absorb and sometimes they write very clearly and beautifully but academic learning tends to exist on this plane that often really almost resists having a popular audience is often hostile to the average or lay reader her. Well Luckily Yeah. We're not bogged down by all the criteria that Yale University would be so for instance. Your description is relatively accurate. But there's always one or two exceptions out of thousand people and that's who we find. You did this it took off. You've been in lots of cities as you've said your audiences are disproportionately. Fortunately Jewish you yourself a proud member of wrote a film on the upper west side. You see Omaha fifteen percent. You know. It's it's an area that might be one percent Jewish and your audiences at one university. There's your fifty percent Jewish on the upper west side. You might think our audience be forty percent. Jewish it's eighty five percent whatever. The percentage in the area is. Your audience is the people who will pay a few shackles to see a professor talk. Intellectual stuff are more Jewish than the surrounding population. What's up with the Ju- here's what I think is? I'm actually pretty sure of okay. The underlying concept what we have is you're going to have fun and learn for the sake of learning. Nobody's getting a degree. No one's passing a test. No one's going to get a better job. Because they learned about Abraham Lincoln through our history professor. The idea that learning is a good thing. You can always learn more. Learning from top professor is a privilege is very very Jewish concept. I'm sure it's all over the Talmud and that wasn't the goal but we tapped into that. Not every Jewish person comes to our events if only right but only but none of them say what a silly idea none of them would say. Why would anyone want to do that? I'm in Sela Steven Schrage is thank you for being with the week uh as our longtime listeners. Know one of our favorite Guests especially one of my favorite guests molly yet She's been on the show numerous times. She is our of TV star in residence and she sat down with Stephanie to talk about her new food food network special. He's also the host of girl meets farm on the Food Network and she runs the super scrumptious blog and I mean scrumptious like if you look at it. The photographs are beautiful and then the recipes these are also delicious. It's called my name is gay. Y H here. She is talking with Stein. I am excited to be on the phone with Molly. Yea She is a cookbook author food networks are and most importantly friend of the POD. God She's GonNa tell us all about her upcoming food network special the ultimate Hanukkah challenge. Hi Molly Hi. Stephanie Has Cohen. I'm good how are you I am so good. Ada I am working my way through Unorthodox. Okay so I have to tell you the only bad thing about having babies that I am now three months behind on my unorthodox orthodox episodes so I just finished up. Edina Susman's episode. I'm still working out this whole like backing into a parking spot. I'm sure you've you've settled it by now but that's where I'm at. I feel like I've been a time machine because now I'm jumping ahead. To the new episode to be honest it says be fruitful and multiply but also also still listen to an Orthodox so I just WanNa make sure you get that. I'm the beginning part is like the more famous one but that's the fine imprint. But I'm very happy to hear that everything is going so well with you and Little Bernie. She is wearing her unorthodox. Onesie today with a juicy tracksuit over it. F- Why I'll send you pictures. Feel like she's really living her best life and I'm really happy to hear that she's really squishy. So you have an exciting special coming up on the food network. Can you tell us about it. I'm so so excited about it. It's the ultimate Hannukah challenge and I feel like I had this on my mind for so long out and I can't believe it's actually happening. It's it's a cooking challenge and it's all about Hanukkah and I don't know I just when I was getting ready for it. I just had this moment where I started to tear up. And the producers Bene- Josh they're also the producers of girl meets farm and they're like they remind me of every boy that I went to summer camp with so I just I feel like we all got kind of emotional about this. We were just so excited. We were kind of like score one for the Jews and and I had this moment sitting in an inherent makeup getting ready where I had Sukanya Nail decals and drill nail decals and and there were these star of David hairpins gold sparkly hairpins in my hair and I was reading the final script and I just couldn't believe that it was happening because there are so many Christmas shows and Christmas specials and you know Santa's cooking challenge ultimate holiday baking championship which is all sorts of Christmas sweets and this is the first time I think that a Hanukkah show show has been on the food network so I'm just really excited and also emotional about it. No that's amazing. We're so happy that you are part of bringing that about will you tell us what the the concept of the show is like. What is everyone? Cooking lock goes like what what what are we going to watch. Okay I have to be careful and not give away any spoilers but there is so there's a lot around around there is a brisket round and then there's a suf- gone yet round and the four contestants were all incredible they were all so different in their backgrounds both as cooks in their backgrounds and their relationship to Jewish cuisine Judaism and they were all such characters. It was so cool to see them cook and you know there was there was one cuckoo. Was a home cook. who was I feel like a bookie's boy from from New York and there was a trained chef from a really famous restaurant in La who was not Jewish? There's a woman from Washington DC who converted to Judaism also a trained chef and then there was a woman from La who has competed on a lot of these shows before and so they all had completely different perspectives on the cuisine and it sparked a lot of debate between the other judges with me so the other judges are duff Goldman and then Sharon Hackman an I got to host and judge and a one point. Somebody made this dish is using it was in the brisket round and it was catch up and brown sugar do you. Do you know that style of brisket what I'm talking about. I am not familiar but the tree. Okay I feel hake. It brought back so many memories for me because it just Daljit kind of flavor it was. It's just so I don't know it duff. And Sharon didn't understand it either but to me it just it's screamed holidays and brisket and All of my older family remembers that was just a thing that they did. It's funny because this reminds me of a tweet that someone tweeted in September which is basically she says. Every Jewish American family recipes seems crashes heirloom heirloom from the old country. And then finally get your hands on the recipe and it's like mixed Diet Black Cherry Soda with French dressing and Cook the chicken in it for six hours. Yup that's exactly clear what this situation wise and it made me so nostalgic. Yeah that's what it was but then there was these trained chefs who are also doing these delicious things and so you know comparing these different dishes do which wins nostalgia or Sheffield or looks or you know what. There were so many different things to consider when when judging the dishes this sounds stressful. Was this something that was emotionally taxing for you because this is like the Jewish Olympics right it's Lakas brisket and you've got you've got a lot like the Jewish future is on your shoulders. I can only imagine bragging rights for whoever. I can't even go there because I can't can't run the risk of blurting out one but there. There was a huge plot. Twist their ooh. Yeah even even the judge like we didn't didn't foresee this happening there were actually I would say there were two huge plot twists And there was a moment where we were all called into the control room home and it was pretty heated and I got really nervous and I was sweating bullets. They had to keep powder in my face so I would say it's is not like a typical cooking challenge. Things happen that we did not foresee happening multiple times. So I think it's going to be really exciting so as has our listeners. Watch this show. How can they get out of their own? You know like same locker recipe same jelly donut like what can they be making sort of spice things up this Hanukkah. Well I think that latkes and SUV are to really awesome sort of baseline recipes. That can be easily jazzed up so oh I feel like every year I wanna make a different kind of lucky in different kinds of gun you know because obviously by the eighth night were just sick of the classics sour cream and apple sauce. So I mean anything goes well with crispy salty fried potatoes even sweet things. I'll do a scoop of ice cream on my lot. Keys as sort of nod to the whole Wendy's French fry in the frosty Fang and with Suf- Daniel I really love Savory Suf- gunshots all do instead of you know your typical sweet jelly. I'll do a a savory onion jam or tomato jam and then instead of dusting it with powdered sugar you can dust it with that cheese powder that comes in the macaroni and cheese box. There are so many different things that you can do because it's just it's fried dough which is pretty adaptable. Whatever flavors you WANNA add any fillings? And then the same thing with latkes. It's it's a great sort of base for whatever you want to add. This sounds amazing. We were like just past thanksgiving. But I'm already ready for Hanukkah and I'm really excited to get to chat with you. Molly thanks seventy unorthodox listeners can watch the ultimate Hanukkah challenge when it premieres Saturday December. Twenty first at nine eight central on the Food Network Happy Hanukkah. Thank thank you so much it. Before I hop my planes and Madison Wisconsin and thence to San Diego and thence to Phoenix. I want to hear some Mazal. Tov Liyel Mazal Tov. This week I have have so many Muslims does You know first of all Muslims of really. I think I said this at one of our live shows a couple of weeks ago but it continues to be relevant to the people in Iran are are really bravely amazingly standing up for freedom And fighting their traffic regime. You should know the J. crew is always behind you and speaking of Ecumenical Interfaith love a couple of weeks ago. We were on our beloved sister. PODCAST Jesuitical listen to that episode. It was really which was really good. I wasn't on it so I listened to it just to hang out with Yellen Stephanie. Late at night on my sofa. It's such an amazing experience. And we love these guys so much and last tonight. I am on my couch as I am. Found Most evenings watching the Irishman the the new marker Z.. Masterpiece Netflix and who plays as the role of the priest. Then former unorthodox guests and beloved Jesuit Master Father James smarten honestly. He's in it for a few short scenes but just for that forget the Niro Pacino Jim Martin movie and you should watch it Mazal. Tov Father Author David Jesuit Master. It's a jet master though this exactly what it is. It's like a Jedi master but like with better and less better caller and more power more foreswore superpower. Less sex better callers two miles to one of my really good friends. Sam Bloom. She not only has a birthday coming up which while we are traveling but her film production company is also behind the kind of say new film the report which is the Adam driver movie about the CIA torture memo and it's really really really nuts. What's and Annette Benning? Plays Dianne Feinstein and it's just a great movie and I'm just really proud of her and that's it that's my model to one friend. Two prongs one Mazal Tov. I have a Mazal Tov. It's ninety one based its new haven based before I give this Mazal Tov I wanna say as I prepare to head to Madison in San Diego. Those are two places where I have. I have no people's at all day at the show. If you can't exactly you guys are always taunting me because wherever we go. Cincinnati Cincinnati Pittsburgh New York. I always say I have people mobile Alabama Lake Charles Louisiana. I got people and I have no people in. I mean my my my friends the COP riches from book. But I haven't seen mark in twenty years Eleven Madison but besides I've know people mass literally have zero people in San Diego about Phoenix. Sink People in Phoenix Phoenix Geordie Oland loomis chaffee class of ninety one. Now WanNa Phoenix leading obstetricians. I think he's coming to the show. His parents parents once came to see us at the JC in New York so Phoenix. I've got but San Diego for a major American city and super desirable one at that. I don't think I they have a soul in San Diego County. Maybe I'm forgetting somebody. But you know if you know me and you live in San Diego and you've been surreptitiously listening to the show getting a little dose of oppy now and again but but but staying under the radar screen not writing in not calling the listener line. Please show up at the high. Please show Shomar some love. Also if you're like a long lost relative that Mark Arc might not know about definitely also show up like if you're one of my grandfather's five wives whom I didn't know or related to them. Please please so I just want to say that. That San Diego Josh Beautiful Place. I've been there before beautiful place but I got I have nobody and So I really need. I need some friends to show up there. Now for my Mozelle tove The new haven. I'm just GonNa read this. This is an item from new haven independent Dot Org my appall Bass's rate hyper local. Independent nonprofit news source headline chocolate milk back in school for now. Chocolate milk band for the last decade is making a return to the iceboxes of new haven's high school cafeterias twice a week that reversal which will make chocolate milk available on a limited basis for a six month. Pilot was narrowly approved at Monday. Night's board of Education Meeting the fourth revolt came after after a wide ranging discussion. That's being echoed in school districts across the country about who's ultimately responsible for the children's nutritional health the kids who eventually need to decide for themselves or the adults who already know better so there you have it I am a big proponent of sweets for children My Children Actually Drinking Soda Right now on the school bus as we tape. I sent them off with their their morning. Six Pack of coca-cola and my God chocolate milk. Yes if you want kids to drink milk throw little chocolate in it that will do the trick game over problem favorite thing about about this about this is that they call it an icebox. Yeah that's Chris Bridge. You know it's it's in the icebox where the MILKMAN delivers. It every morning to remember those little tiny cartons of chocolate milk and they were just like absolute mess. It's an American right passage like go to public school. Get the government milk. It's those little boxes of chocolate milk and you know what that's that's being American. Maybe in Switzerland. They're drinking like a home called pasteurized from your grandma's cows Switzerland cold brew fondue. Yeah in school but you know what we're Americans. Those box of chocolate milk awards at Chris. Peak deploying the word icebox newhaven independent dot. Org that's it's my Mazal Tov. Unorthodox is brought to you by Talent magazine on the web at tablet dot com send her thoughts to unorthodox tablet dot com and subscribe. Hi George Newsletter. Bit Dot L. Y. Slash Unorthodox podcast. Listen if anything in this podcast episode troubled you or elated you or just made you think why not not calling leave a message on our listener. Line nine one four five seven zero four eight six nine. We often come to you. Live to to book us or advertise with us. Get in touch with producer. Josh Cross. That's J. K.. A R O S S at tablet MAG DOT com. If you WANNA wear unorthodox shirts or T. shirts or sweatshirts or onesies or hats or mittens or beer cosies Rosie's go do bit dot l. y.. Slash Ortho shirt. That's where you can find Unorthodox Swag you can follow us on twitter at Unorthodox underscore pot or instagram at Unorthodox. podcast join in our facebook group. There's lots of fun stuff. There are shows produced by Josh Cross are associate producers are Sarah Friedman eater and Ilana Levinson so good to have them on board. Artwork is by esther order. There are social media mischief is Elliot. Abrams our theme. Music is by Gholam online at Gholam. rox Dot Com rabbinic supervision. This week by two of San Diego's finest rabbis is Rabbi David Castiglione of Adat Shalom and Rabbi Sammy. Site of near Tammy they are both serving the spiritual needs of the people in San Diego's North County and we hope to see them and all of their congregants against at our events at the Leash Tag Foundation. This Friday and Saturday we come to you from ARGO studios but soon from Sunny Sunny San Diego and Phoenix Knicks. Shalom friends the uh-huh.

Israel New York City Stephanie Simon Jonathan Adler New Jersey Switzerland Stephanie Oppenheimer Liebowit San Diego Mark Oppenheimer Simon Dune new haven Jason Jonathan Donald trump PHOENIX Mel Brooks Carl Reiner Cincinnati
The Rabbi and the Revolutionary: Ep. 203

Unorthodox

1:25:51 hr | 9 months ago

The Rabbi and the Revolutionary: Ep. 203

"I think I call it professional Ath- leisure clothing and the coziness clothing that you can get where in public so like a cashmere sweater. Sweater has like Hartson. Stars is like totally where I want to be in life. This is unorthodox the universe leading Jewish. PODCAST I am Mark Oppenheimer joined today as ever by my co hosts try hosts and CO hosts be more than one we are the tri factor. TRINITE or one we're at the end. Orthodox trending trending could almost make a religion out of that deputy editor Stephanie Button Echo. Hello and tablets senior writer Lelio films at all this week. We bring you interviews from our live show in Stamford Connecticut. Which seems eight thousand years ago? Now and yet the interviews are as fresh as the morning dew on a young toddlers blonde hair genetically froze as she runs through the meadow. Correct and resuscitated right. Now we spoke in Stanford and that was a great event. That was a wonderful event at a wonderful show we spoke with the world. Famous rabbi author and teacher Joseph to listen and also with Covari who's the chief executive officer of Furniture Company Ethan Allen and also an interfaith activist activist of some note and those interviews are simply simply a delight. It will be our pleasure to revisit them but before we get to that we have so much occur so much in the news of the Jews. The News of Leo the News as of Stephanie. The News of of of Maw May update you on my father's health So for those of you who have not been on our live tour And don't know this because I've I've told this there's two audiences in Detroit and Denver but it's now time to catch up the rest of you. My father suffered an eye injury that I can only call Cringe inducing scrotum tightening grotesque Hanky clutching. If you're easily squeezed out by descriptions of injuries skip over the next eight seconds in which I say very quickly. He tripped over an the open dishwasher door and fell into the corner of a step ladder and smashed his eyeball. Can I just say having actually been in combat and open dishwasher. Door is probably be. My biggest fear in Saint knows that that shit is serious garden state and I do not feel his Bulla. But a dishwasher door I I would not take that. Well Fuck your your shit up so let me let me just say that. The long the short of it is he gets himself to the Massachusetts eye and ear institute at Mass General Hospital. My mother gets in there to be more precise and They they end up saving the eyeball. Thank God and are probably going to be able to get back a lot of his vision in that eye. In the meantime he may be rocking. Some sweet sweet eyepatches. My mothers varies the most Diane and she keeps saying anyone in history of an eye patch. Besides Moshe Diane and so I googled people who've had eyepatches and of course you get. Sammy Davis Junior and the Sorbonne of pirate. Hi Ruth but the important thing is that the doctor who I operated on his eyeball was one doctor Grayson Armstrong reason Armstrong. And you know I will say that I do have something and I'm not proud of this. I can't defend it but I have a kind of needle in central Jewish doctor Chauvinism. which is I feel that the operating on that eyeball should be Dr Herschel Cohen? That's who deserves that. I deserve that I bought and that Grayson Armstrong and not greasy operating as. He's having dry Martini shopping his wife while having what's what's chattering said what is this playing Lacrosse. He's just a he man he's a he's GonNa do everything to Lacrosse sacks and operations. I have to say so the my friend Seth Logos who is a witch adult wits We were trying to describe certain kind of guy we went to with for high school and it was like he was a little cross player but he was also kind of one of those lean people who might also have been a swimmer in the winter and also we had a house in Greenwich and he sort of Waspy and said yeah. He's a Lacrosse P- it's like yes lacrosse. That's the word we Dr. Stretch Armstrong. Right that is Dr Grayson Armstrong right there and the next doctor operated on my dad was doctor. Dean Elliott Elliot which could be a crypto Jewish name. But I like to think that basically the entire ophthalmological department they're like defying stereotype. Is just all of these you know. Well Bred Ed Saint Paul's or gratin graduates we go back to their clubhouse earnt. You glad we do not let into Ju- This department. No doctor raise ours. I would never say that. The point is out like I want mail from other listeners. Who've had their eyeballs reconstructed by Dr Grayson arm? Because I think I haven't met him yet. But he may be my favorite person in the world for what he did for my dad's so a huge Mazal Tov to him by the way. Grayson Gregory Gregory Muslim. Of course whose real name is Dr Gershon from wits from Brooklyn Mazal Tov and by the way Grayson Mazal Tov means brothers Abed Rabbo. uh-huh what's up guys Stephanie. What's going on okay? So we just came off the most insane leg that will be of our tour. We were in Detroit. We went to Denver Than Leon continued onto. Houston we haven't even talked to you guys since. Houston I'M GONNA. I don't even know I agree with you a fun fun bit of news for you. So we're in Detroit. Have this amazing Racing Show in West Bloomfield JC which is like an incredible JCC. W This really fun. Show do the signing Great Book Expo. Yes what are you get invited to. I am approached by two two amazing people. I say before you were approached by the people you're about to speak about. I was approached by no fewer than two ophthalmologists. WHO said if Dr Armstrong doesn't work out we we will give him the next day by the way they want to buy their mark but if he needs me I'm here Good second opinions. So I see your of Tamala Gis and I raise you George Roberts and Sarah Rheingold who are two amazing people and great listeners. A new friends of ours and of this show. who asked if we would? I'd like to come to an event that they are helping to put together for JARC which is amazing organization that really does wonders for Jews especially kids with special needs and we said you know. Hey Yeah we would always like to hang and you know you guys are so cool and I said Oh by the way did we mention that the entertainment for the evening would be earth wind and fire at at which points seventy and I are just like Yup a hundred percent. We loved Jewish philanthropies. It'll be their support you and it was like it was nineteen September. I remember it was insane. It was the craziest thing I also. This is embarrassing but I also it's kind of like when I watched Casa Blanca. Oh it's from there. I heard Kirkman and fire songs and I was like this is then I just assume that they are like. I've heard like covers of covers at this point and I'm just like you just every song you didn't realize these songs came came with the elevator. Someone wrote them. You didn't realize every song your wedding was actually. I was like Yup that definitely. I don't think I realized Shining Star didn't realize every facing a were amazing so we get to Denver and our big adventure there. I will say Leo had been talking a lot about going to this place Casa Bonita and I was was like what is this place I keep hearing about. Leo started with with you saying there's absolutely no way I'm going through that filthy gross played. I didn't know what it was and I was like you. Keep talking about someone. Who's the celebrity that you say goes there and goes cartman on South Park Anyway? It's like this touristy like quasi Mexican restaurant in a strip mall where there's cliff driving inside and a cave. It's the weirdest thing I've ever seen but anyway so at the Denver show a bunch of my family The you'll hear rap is when the show airs the the Roth House sides. GRANDPA GRANDPA AL's side of the family. His brother and their family were there. And after the show my my cousin Leslie comes up to me. And she's like after we like hanging out tomorrow we can go to Casa Benita anyway. Anyway I went. There had a Margarita at one in the afternoon. We we I think she left diving. Show was it all you guys hoped it would be. Oh I was in seventh and it's kind of like when you go to like an arcade. Ah I used to love going to boomers in south Florida and finally when I went with my younger cousin and I was in college and I was like. Oh It's lost. Its magic so I think I kinda was like going somewhere with the lights on. I didn't have the magic. Never happened to me. The magic is still there. Magic longevity is there and then somewhere in Houston and there's an event I'm really looking forward to which is the lady's Breakfast 'cause like that is my target demographic ladies and breakfast this event diagram right there. It's like prefaced. League would have been better if it was a brunch and not breakfast but however I break fast early in Houston Lille ended up filling in for me at that ladies breakfast because my sister had a baby mole. My God busted out of their day early being like I gotta get home to see this cute baby and I- disappointed a bunch of ladies in Houston so excited to see Stephanie. Budnick Healy these was. I think I think I thank. You are a good a good sub instagram document. The instant if you want not Jewish or Jewish what is Jewish but it was a lovely breakfast nuisance amazing Super Jewish. Of course it is. It's could cook brisket. I don't even know what he's already five minutes but the point is that Houston is incredible. The point is that we have been touring the country and live. Show live our lives alive and we're not even close to Mike. We have scheduled a year in which we will see are not at all because we want to see all of you tonight. We are doing some of the events together but that is we. Are The traveling show tonight. Being being Thursday the fourteenth we are in Margie on the Jersey shore so Philly Friends Jersey. JC by the New Yorkers With with a gambling problem who wanna hit Atlantic city. In the way they're or back are welcome to join us out then. This Sunday November seventeenth. We are doing a live show at one PM at the Meyerson. GCC Cincinnati it's global day of learning. Although we promise you would learn you'll learn nothing from us. And then the following week I go to transgressor Pennsylvania November twenty th at seven. PM Oh yeah tell you the world. This is an amazing one. Leila Nice I sorry Mark You guys get Houston get lost in the mail. We are at the Center for Jewish history. Doing a really really fun of it. That's on Sixteenth Street. That is a downtown New York City Jewish institution to feel important things usually. We're on upper west breeze all singing all debt for those of you who don't cross thirty Fourth Street this is. It's really fun. The following night November Twenty Second Liyel and I are at Sutton place synagogue for their welcome back. We're going to talk after services. We're like the Lady Gaga on Tony Bennett. It's true I'm Tony. And then the following week I go back to my ancestral home of long island event in Washington at the Community Me Synagogue. Where my friends the Remler go? Oh yeah that's December fifth at seven thirty and then mark. Tell us where we go from there after that And I will be in Madison Wisconsin. I should say said giving Topic University of Wisconsin while you guys are in Washington so people should also check. We'll put that up on our on the website as well which is tablet MAG DOT com slash unorthodox. Live and and then Stephanie and I are converging in Beautiful San Diego County so leaching is a really cool foundation and they have this thing called the high which is an Ensign Nita's and it's basically like a froman like a laboratory laboratory for Jewish innovation and ideas and so we're basically going back to the land. It's a West Coast kibbutz. Yes basically and we're going to be there for a weekend residency which we've never done before and it sounds it's really really cool and fancy and the first thing we're doing is in an Orthodox Chabad producer. Josh Cross. You help set this all up you've been you've been riding pony for a long time. What we're doing is Friday night? Chabad there is a farm-to-table three course dinner plus beer wine. I've been promised a signature cocktail but they didn't tell me what it is. Only thirty six bucks. You'RE GONNA get a chance to talk to mark. Talk to Stephanie Anthony. Nobody wants to talk to me on the following night only for a suggested donation of twelve dollars. We're GONNA do a live. Show there right on their farm guests coming in who can reflect the agricultural cultural on the food parts of what the HIVE is. And what we're doing over there. Can they come to the dinner on the sixth and then the live show on the seven. I hope to see everybody at boat. So there's shebab dinner on on December sixth live show December seven at the Hive Leach Tag Foundation. This extraordinary Echo Jewish experience for more information go to Leach tag dot org. You're wondering how to spell that. L. E. H. Tag Dot Org L. E. H. T. A. G. Dot org hope to see you in San Diego and then there's more oh there's so much more okay. The following day fresh off my European tour my grand tour Mike coming out debutante tour of Europe we will be worse than we are going to Phoenix to the valley. Leave The Sun Jewish community center. We're going to see all of our friends Cipro Turner and her family. My high school friend Ohlund will be there with his wife as ing and the sorts fan. They're having a date night. The all lanes are having a date. Night Romantic yeah. They're both very romantically. That's right and the tour definitely keeps going after that we are out out of breath But go to Taba dot com slash unorthodox live. And you get all that information get tickets for everything. A lot of these shows are free a lot of the events of freeze or just take a look there and end hope to seal Alma road again. Uh unless we do a little news of Jews who are not US US news of the Jews and Otj most important news of the Jews of the week rubberduck at outfits according to the Jewish even continue. This is sometimes when you read those things sometimes sometimes really kind of like the universe is sending items are way. Some people are doing things for no other reason than for us to be able to mark them on this show. I I do think. There's like a drinking game at the Jewish Telegraphic Agency and other news outlets saying let's see if we can find a story crazy enough that unorthodox features a headline like rubber duck at Auschwitz. Yeah like Yup. It's going to be a great show. That's how the Duckie at outfits Duckie you'll see you make my show so so much fun so poorly travel blogger was was at Auschwitz and he took a picture that he posted on his instagram account of a little rubber ducky gi of the Ernie variety and the rubber duckie. He takes the picture of the rubber ducky everywhere he goes and that's his. INSTAGRAM account is basically his rubber duckie traveling the world but this was on the train tracks at Auschwitz and he posted he wrote a little message in Spanish at which point the Internet descended and call them all sorts of horrible things and said that he was an anti Semite and that he should apologize and go slink off forever. Here's the thing I want to talk to my chums Leland Stephanie. About is there really anything wrong wrong with I I. Maybe I'M GONNA lose my card for this like maybe. It's so obvious that you can't take a picture of a rubber ducky of the trade tracks at Auschwitz. We have had those stories before the pictures on Instagram of people's Whose children are playing at the Holocaust? Fees self look an with like the gravestone of Shlomi. Whoever that does seem to me wrong? I mean it's not like it doesn't make a horrible person but it's an error in judgment to be at some sort of memorial and that is a work of art that's been constructed to Honor the dead and then to like. Make it into this chipper. Little twee thing but picture rubber ducky at world historical location even if world historical location of much sadness. I don't see I'm not feeling it. I'm not feeling the horror so it's kind of interesting if you scroll through this feed. It's basically the rubber ducky everywhere Taj Taj Mahal Brandenburg Gate Saint Petersburg every iconic visual. You see that. Duck there to blink Bergen Belsen Canal think. I think the main the thing is that this shows that like Auschwitz is part of the the Canon of places. It's become such an iconic image that I get why someone will do this. You can almost divorce the reality Lady of the place with the image of the famous visual of the train tracks in some ways. That's good but the downside of that is that you can really remove a lot of the emotion emotion and importance of the site. Because you're just like oh I have to go see it and take a picture of it just like I did at the Taj Mahal. It's weird to me. I'm not offended by it because I'm part Artemis like I'm kind of glad he went right like isn't it. Nice that he this was part of his itinerary. I'm assuming this is a man but like when you go you've been. I don't think you've been I have never been to any death. Camp concentration deportation embarked depot. I've never taken a train. In Eastern Europe lived none of the Holocaust experience at. Aw I know I know that we have a very special episode all away. Here's the thing that hits you when you visit it visiting it definitely see for someone whose family was slaughtered there but I I assume also for people who have no emotional connection to it is a completely overwhelming experience. I mean for for human being to stand there and see the piles of shoes the death chambers right an understand what had happened. There really takes the grand emotional toll and I honestly see nothing wrong with finding one moment of levity of humanity of almost defiance right to say like we live on. We don't desecrate the place as we don't market in any way we don't turn it into kind of a forest but but we take we take a second just to ourselves to do something that is maybe silly maybe not entirely appropriate. It reminds us that life continues. I'm really not bothered by it. Look I I'm also little little desensitized to all this. Given how many insane stories there have been like this even given what we do for a living a lot to shock US great actually. I'm glad you're visiting this place and you're drawing a lot of attention because you probably have a ton of followers on this feed who liked to see this rubber productive however because the rubber ducky probably will get more people to learn about the Holocaust I think the other thing the other thing the background here is that the people many people who are concerned about this Are People who are quite rightly concerned about the rising casualness with which anti Semitism is treated and sort of how. I was talking to a college undergraduate yesterday. WHO's Jewish who was was saying who was talking to me about a very painful conversation? She had with a half Jewish but Jewish identified when convenient for him as she put it friend of hers. Undergrad who was basically Lee saying like Anti Semitism is somewhat warranted because Jews do control the media and we know that because of the way stories about Jews are reported and they get so much more attention and and the student was told he was quite trouble that their podcasts and and books and their live show their live. Show control the media. Why would they want stories about themselves? Even more heavily. Whatever we're both nefarious and all-dominant and stupid so there is this I think part of it here is we must put up guard rails against yes you know this? Now you've come for us in the New York. Subways you've come for us in Pittsburgh but you've come first power but like really the rubber decade Auschwitz so there could be a well-meaning attempts to try to push back and say actually there's some things that are still sacred. I just have to say though. I'm looking at this picture and I'm just so I can't help but smile because the ducky is so suit. Suit Darn Cute Nights. See Hitler you lost rubberduck lives on it would be better. If the duckie were linked to fillon right. That would be a number one who was was like one of those like acidic that would be offensive. I guess that'd be even if it was lying to fill in that would be like inside. Knowledge duckie's arm wing links. The feeling around the puck sort that moving on a New Zealand. We are obviously we want to hear from you. where is it not appropriate to put To take take a picture of your rubber ducky nine four five seven zero four eight six nine lead. You have a report from Israel anything going on there so much going on in Israel First of all in perpetual news. That's not really news still government but hey we're doing well in other news This morning my mother was interrupted mid salad making By having to go to her her bomb shelter bomb shelter because There is a renewed missile strike on various reports of Israel so none of that is out of the ordinary Israel where they make salad for breakfast and then after take shelter just by the way how you do it was civilized person. All three. I will say that when you said she had to go to like my first one was like is that her pant legs that her pantry like did she needed ingredient. But no because a bomb ceus and getting you know a Yorkshire terrier to a bomb bomb shelter is not an easy task but what we really care about the news we care about it. All the news we care about is a new phenomenon. A state of the Holy Land from the people who brought you ways and Gal Gadot comes Greta Shaming Greta shaming. I if you're at the office and there's a little coffee corner and in the coffee corner instead of environmentally friendly wouldn't stirs or whatever. Some people use plastic if you can call them people if you can even call them human beings next next to the plastic utensils people all over Israel have taken to placing little very angry photos of Greta. Thunberg big the teen aged Swedish environmental activists with her catchphrase. How dare you? And it's become a thing over his offices. Go by the plastic. You're looking get angry. Greta Greenwich basically saying like. How dare you ruin this earth? How do ruined her childhood? Plus do you know where they should put Greta saying. How dare you is on the tracks outfits mentally unfriendly? Rubber Duck is burgundy recyclable. All right time for guest I think did you. It is as they say. Say a big him and he's GonNa come on up here and then we're GONNA ask him a bunch of questions. Rabbi Joseph Tillerson is an American rabbi lecture and bestselling author more than fifteen eighteen books including the newly released revise words that hurt words that he'll most importantly he is the father of our former unorthodox producer. SHEERA TILA skin. Well he's welcome awesome. Rabbi Tillis skin welcome. I was done a a number of interviews in my life. I don't think I've ever been as uncomfortable in anticipation of what's going to happen. I have no idea what I'm going to be asked and hand. Okay you mean you never march on stage bringing sexy back before that's awesome okay. Let's start easy you you know how like when your dentist and you see someone on the street and they're like oh doctor like my tooth hurts or you're like a special type of doctor and someone will come up to you being like. I know you're not in the office right now but like can you look at this like this mole. You are a very famous rabbi. Who is very recognizable? Do people come up the streets with their spiritual elements actually not that infrequent people have a whole bunch of feelings and often complicated feelings about Judaism including the three people. Love here interviewing me and yeah it really now should stop thinking. Think of some witty and funny thing for instance like what what do they say bars and someone like stops. You know look a lot of it is suffer. You could almost expect and stuff that's inherently unanswerable like the injustices in the world. How do you know how do you believe in a God and allows? If anybody had the answer to that question. It would've long since been answered. That's why we call it faith because there is not an inherently compelling answer and people know in advance but it's always asked when something bad happens as if it hasn't been asked and obviously what's interesting is people have a tendency to ask it when something terrible has happened to them but they didn't necessarily ask it when somebody think terrible it happens to somebody else before which is not that inherently logical and we just have to accept this free will in the world and we can't really defi. I got into a real argument with somebody wants. You said they'd prefer that there. It wasn't free. Will I say that's changing the rules of the game in such a way that you can't really do it. You can speak of a good dog but when people speak of a good dog dogs. I mean in obedience dog or nicely man a sweet disposition dog but a dog that was trained by the Nazis to attack. Prisoners is not an inherently. So you will dog and one that would attack anybody with a swastika we would like but it's not because it's making a moral decision even though people do want to believe that their own pets. Somehow I'm how do really have personalities but usually that's those are the questions that come up the most often I mean other otherwise they were conventional questions. There is inherent fascination people have with Jewish customs surrounding death. And you really always get a lot of questions about that. And I suppose a lot of questions because Judaism doesn't isn't necessarily define it that easily a lot of questions about afterlife. Yeah to which I say. I don't think at this point that I have the answer by the time I have the the answer. I'm not going to be here to be able to give it to you. I think a lot of the questions that I mean. Certainly the questions that my children have and a lot of questions I have Have to do with how people treat each other and the book revised words that hurt. Where's that he'll who's right into that you? I wrote this book. What twenty years ago? Yes in one thousand nine hundred ninety six and one of the reasons seasons. I know that I'm not a prophet. Is that when I wrote the book I said I'm writing this. Because civil discourse in America can't get any worse I oh I do want to acknowledge that. At the time I had a dream I wanted to introduce a national speak. No Evil Day in the United States and I was able to actually to get two senators sponsored as resolution one of them. You will not be shocked to learn. Was Joe Lieberman and the other. The Republican was Connie Mack. Back Republican senator from Florida. I mentioned that also yet another reason. There was a time in the United States and you could imagine Republican and Democratic Attic. Senator actually working on something together and we did but then found out subsequent to the resolution being introduced to get a resolution like that past you. You basically have to have like fifty senators cosponsoring it. I was a one man band. I've thrown out the idea. I hope one day. They'll do it like hill. or how bad you know. All of whom Are An all the state so they could easily get senatorial co-sponsors why would anyone not sign onto. What was the idea? The idea was just a proclamation saying on a given day every year and by the way what day was going to be eh I picked today at random at the time it was like may sixteenth or something because I noticed for the next five years it was gonNA fall on weekdays and I wanted it to be on school days and the idea was every Gimmel Thomas. No one speaks evil. Oh also talk. WHO's talking before about someone get Dahlia? We're all fast day. You know why they tell a story about man this fast on some Dahlia. So I'm going to tell you how many of you do not know what some goodell is. Rabbi Camerman your congregants. Don't know the fifth most important fascinating it falls on the day after Russia Shonda when a man named Dahlia been a high com was was assassinated. He had been appointed as the governor. After the destruction of the temple. By the Babylonians and actor offense they was declared the next time the actual Jewish leader leader estate was assassinated like that. It was just Cock Robin but anyway they asked the manifested on Goodell. Yes he said No. I don't and he said why not he said has three reasons. Now you know when you don't come prepared to tell a joke you can really mess up a joke So one is he said if Dahlia hadn't thought he would have been dead Ed by now anyway if I died the Dahlia wouldn't fast food and fast on Yom Kippur. Why should I? I I WANNA ask you though apropos. The revised edition of a book coming out. I thought about a lot on the drive over here. It seems to be something kind of inherently inherently at odds about writing a book about Jewish ethics and then seeing a lot of our own societal norms and the way we treat ethical conversations. Change a great deal right now. We live in the era of you know metoo and movements like that. Is there a moment in which she said like well. Yeah that's exactly why. Hey we need a sort of unchanging religious principle so that the northstar remains the same or do you kind of try to change your work. Okay so there too okay. So it's a really fair question. The underlying ethical principles remain the same. What constitutes fair speech? What doesn't I revised it in part because the climate has gotten so much uglier and I wanted to seem very relevant? Some of the examples over the past somehow didn't seem shocking anymore. So I wanted to do it. Yeah and obviously the past presidential campaign and I'm not coming down on one side of the other people will choose to think of what they want. But there's been ugliness on both sides the the other reason was over the years as a parent I learned more about the significance of words that he'll so the real expansion of the modern addition is actually just a tricky way to convince Vince people who already owned the book why they need to buy the revised edition. But what I really did was very much that issue I realized it would be a terrible thing. Four four we had was the capacity of words to hurt so there has to be a compensatory capacity. Since we're talking about Shira and cheers sister Naomi. I have one of the stories there about the importance of learning how to apologize that. When you apologize you have to accept full responsibility? We lived for two years in Boulder Colorado at the time Shearer was three and I only was five. I was giving a speech on the ethics of speech in the Denver Community and Naomi Insure said Daddy. We want to go to your speech. Four four and six. It's relevant to the story and I knew it was going to be over their heads and so I I said I don't think you're gonNA like it. And they said we really WANNA come so of course they came. I'm very proud father. There was a big crowd wasn't quite as big as this probably about three hundred people and so we come in and I introduced them both and they stand up in the front row and everybody gives them a big applause and they sit back down ten minutes into the speech. I asked the audience. How many of you grew up in a household where somebody's bad temper had a bad effect on on the house among the hands that go up in the front row? It was. If you're laughing the way you're laughing now so you can imagine how people laughing with those two little kids. You know standing up there so finally I said the only thing I could say unfortunately my wife has a terrible temper but what had ahead but what had really happened was Naomi was in the first grade and it was a newly established school. It wasn't working out quite as well as we wanted so I was teaching teaching her how to read. According to my wife. I am very patient the first time I explain something to someone and according to my wife I am very patient the second time. Explain something that according according to my wife for the third time I can start getting snappy so I've been stopping a bit and I only so after the speech I went to her. I said I wanted to know when you make a mistake. You're not doing it to be bad for me. To get angry is really wrong and I apologized. And if I do it in the future I want you to say to me Daddy. You're not supposed to do that. which she started saying which was extremely extremely irritating but the truth is but I always say if you're going to apologize you have to accept full responsibility? You know now. Imagine if I had actually sent to them and I only I really am sorry but you have to admit it's really irritating and you take it all away. There's a wonderful story. How money who just call out? I assume many people know who is the first drew ever appointed to the Supreme Court. Yeah Louis Brandeis and you know we associate Supreme Court. Nominations nations now with the real controversies close votes and throughout most of American history. That wasn't the case. It was an overwhelming. Both parties would come together but Brandeis Isis really did stir up controversy. He I forget what it was but it was like fifty five to forty. It was a very close vote and six former. The president of the American Bar Association came out and those were really not political political correctness. Which I think is can go overboard but then there was really really no political correctness and people would say what they wanted? One of the opponent's slow was not an anti Semite. It was the former president. Taft but he denounced brandeis. He says he'll bring in the worst sort of hypocrisy and and he's a man with no scruples and he didn't go in for the Jewish fading part of it. Three years later brandeis was taking a walk at night and he used to take a walk in the evenings after dinner and Lo and behold he runs into president. Taft and Taft says Mr Brandeis a few years ago. I did you a terrible injustice. I just want you to know I deeply apologize. It ended the conflict because the first thing is when one side takes full acknowledge and think about it people in your own lives. You might be angry if they fully acknowledged and the damage they did you know. I don't know how Brandeis would've reacted if let's say taft had really succeeded and he had not you know it's hard. It's like Joseph and his brothers. Joseph forgives his brothers in Egypt but if he it was still working there as a slave and a miserable life I don't know if he would have forgiven them so easily but anyway tariff is the only ex president who then was subsequently appointed to the court art. He became a chief justice and his papers. There's a letter he wrote to his daughter. He said Brandeis and I still have disagreements but I have so come to appreciate shoot him. He's one of the people I really have affection for so the first step is to thank. You hurt somebody apologize and once you the apologize or takes full responsibility. It actually enables the other person to not respond defensively and usually they'll take at least some measure the response yet. Let me to halfway or let me shine a little bit more darkness into this wonderful vision. Why if I had to predict which three of you would bring in more darkness? Okay so looking at darkness. That's right over the last three years part of the way that I've personally dealt with everything that goes around us which you referred to was Bourbon or Scotch but also to really kind of become very serious about religion region in part because it sort of offered this kind of comfort and consolation of something that I knew to be eternal into. Do you have moments as someone who is sort of straddling rattling very publicly the line between being a public intellectual and being a rabbi in which he said. I want no longer any part of this. I want to retreat as deep as I can into my face in my tradition and have nothing to do with all this around me. Don't WanNa talk to people. Don't WanNa right just want to get into the issue of not wanting to talk to people. Because because I've spent my life writing a lot of books I come to understand. I'm an extrovert introvert. Profession and so it would really be hard. I need to go out. I need to who me too. Yeah Okay I get it. It's like should I gotta write three hours today. What I WANNA do with Schmooze? The problem I have is a rabbi. Can't say it exactly the way you said it it but schmooze so it's very no. It's very hard to do that. But yes there. You pinpoint an interesting things you yeah you want to sometimes just sort of retreat. I know my daughter Shearer did one of her papers at Harvard Divinity exactly on like modern monastic movements which she's loved off and not necessarily just Catholics. You know of people who sort of want and she. I forget the names of the people who just wanted to go into retreat from the world. I actually used to. It'd be much more interested in politics when I was a kid when I think back the first I'm seventy now you got into this. With the Soviet jewelry fight wasn't really went public with this became a public figure for the first. Ah Yes that. That's very much dominated me but I remember I was twelve years old. When John Kennedy was elected president? I actually knew the members of every three one of the members of his cabinet first of all. Now it's hard to keep up with all the cabinet members saying they don't stay in that. Look nobody actually knew I knew it all an and I don't have that same level of interest I suppose to some extent it emanates out of some despair also. How much will it really change? Why are people will so basically decent to each other in person and so horrible to each other on the Internet? I think we all know the reason. The Internet gives people cloak of anonymity and I even when they're not anonymous. They will be mean to people on the Internet. Who if they saw them on the street they want? There's about the distance is well the distance. And when when you see somebody unless you're really pretty awful person when you see someone you see their humanity you also see it becomes harder to make terrible generalizations stations about other groups which is common thing that people do because when you meet someone you can't just define them by that group so I don't know like the people boohoo commonly used the expression juice someone down now I don't know how many how many Jews they actually. No I mean this is the argument for getting to know people from other groups because it doesn't fully protect it by the way the interesting thing you guys were all talking about that can people Jews you such expressions amongst themselves and I think we don't so we do know that in the early evolution of very unpleasant term. Kaik it was sometimes used by the German Jews against Eastern Eastern European Jews but the only group today that I think it throws among and and for reasons that people like President Obama hate it. Is We know that in a certain type of black culture they we'll use the N.. Word and he you know he understandably very horrified by it because it also grants legitimacy for people to think and also so I once had a very sad experience about the usage of words familiar with a black comic D. H. Yooglie. Yeah Yeah so strangely enough. I was one speaking speaking in Saint Louis and I was speaking about the subject words at her words. He'll and my wife and I have cousins and Saint Louis. We went out to a hotel there. Are we just sitting in the lobby getting drinks. And we see this guy surrounded by a big group and my wife's not shy and she goes over and start speaking to Yooglie clea. Who is there? And he's very friendly and suddenly. My wife signalling to me to come over. She had told them what I'd been speaking about. Any thought it asked me about these Jewish laws of ethical speech. You're not supposed just to say anything about somebody negative unless the person to whom you're speaking needs the information yooglie left and he said that would put me totally out of business and we really got along very nicely and he told me he was performing in New York and he gave us tickets and told us to come backstage. So they're about fifteen hundred people people there. He had really controversial sort of humor. But the guy was funny and clearly very smart and we go backstage afterwards and it was what you'd expect. He had like five people working for him him for them. Were Philo Blacks. One White Guy was his accountant. And and we're talking about prejudice and other things and I said to them at one point what what percentage of white people do you think when they're amongst themselves use the N.. Word and to my shock they said eighty five to ninety percent send and I actually had tears in my eyes. I said. Imagine to go around thinking that you're so hated I said you don't hear the term at all I mean or so rarely but this is what happens. It's like I remember. I grew up in the aftermath of the Holocaust. I grew up in a neighborhood with a lot of Jews who were survivors. And you can imagine. Imagine what you would often hear said about non Jews and there was you know a terrible elevation and it was said by the way strangely enough you know I tell you. I thought the story was going to end with you. Saying what percentage of white people do you know who are Jewish accountants right. I thought he was going to be all Jewish Accountant. World agent is account right. Father was the REVIE's account. That's right so so you wrote a book about the Yes and we were getting a lot of texting like rabbi. Tillis can ask him about the revie every week. We know like oh I hear you have to ask about the rabbit which which we love to carry a photo of him in my wallet. Not Someone is hugely influential. Okay I'll I can. I can't answer very briefly but I will. It'll be shorter than if I gave a summary of the six hundred and Thirteen Commandments. Okay the Rebbe of course was the seventh rebbe of Subodh and I remember when I was a kid growing up I knew more about Ah Biden most people because as I mentioned my father was the accountant and my grandfather had very close relationship with the Rabi but I would never have predicted in the nineteen fifties Kabad who's going to become more than a really peripheral movement instead. Of course it became this incredibly strong moving one of the things things that struck me when I was writing the book about the Rabi was the depth of love that he really did have particularly for Jews but it was it went beyond the Jewish community. This wonderful story. The first black woman who was ever elected to Congress with Shirley Chisholm represented bed stuy and also also parts of crown heights and in nineteen sixty eight when she was elected the House of Representatives was still dominated the leadership positions by southern Democrats because they would tend to get elected for thirty forty years because there was effectively then no Republican Party and they were still racist so they take Shirley Chisholm from bed stuy and they put on the Agriculture Committee leading New York newspaper. The headline at a tree grows in Brooklyn and she was very upset. She's very public about upset. She wanted to be in a labor committee. She wanted to be an education and she gets a call from Rebecca who was the rabbis closest aide and he said the rebels would like to see you. She was actually his his representative and politicians would always come into the ready to get a blessing he would never endorses specific candidate. Say comes to. He says I understand. You're very insulted. She said I'm outraged raged. I went there. Wanted to do something labor. I WANNA do something in education they put me on. This committee said God has given you a challenge and an opportunity and how much extra food is has grown every year in the United States. Find a creative way to do it. She arrives in Congress. Are I think Congress. She meets the newly elected Republican senator from Kansas. Bob Bob Dole and Dole was very worried about farmers in Kansas who were producing more food that they could sell. WHO's getting destroyed? They were losing money and together. They play a key role in expanding. Food stamps then. She goes on to help found wick women infants and children. Nobody knows this story until fifteen years later when a retirement breakfast has made eight for her in Congress and she tells that whole story she said if poor children have more food today. It's because that rabbi in Crown Heights had vision so you know so right away you're dealing with a with a different sort of figure. The revie also had another technique that I thought was great. I call my book how to disagree. Without being disagreeable he would never attack someone by name he he said he said I speak about she. Tot- I speak about approaches. I don't speak about individuals and and it was a very remarkable feature so he had real disagreements with people one rabbi once wrote them. A nasty letter was furious at home about something he writes back to the rabbi. Well there are still six hundred twelve areas on which we agree. You know he would hold onto the symbolic but it was a real in researching the Soviet jury thing when I was speaking about. How bad about doing the book? I I had some real disagreements with the rugby. One of them was he. Had favoured quiet diplomacy on the Soviet Uria shoe and I favored very I life. I'm putting him on my. He took that position. I took this position. He was on slightly higher playing than me. But I was. Since that might be in the office I will say he was on a higher plane than me. I'M NOT GONNA say. He was on slightly higher but I saw an example where he gave a biting speech very upset about a position. One of the Soviet jewelry leaders had taken but he never gives them in its name and six months later he was able to work together with that person and it is so hard increasingly to imagine region in the United States with the horrible things that people are saying that people will find a way to work together. That's the reason I am so committed committed to this whole thing of different types of language because it fuels such a hatred and that really was one of the things that so profoundly impressed me about grabby. He was totally into the use of positive language. He would say half Atto instead of calling something. Evil say the opposite of good at almost humorous extent. A man came to the rugby very despondent very upset and on top of everything else. He said you know in his son had moved away from Judaism in the. You know you sort of hit his hand against you know what they say. Cherish design a year. It's hard to be Ju said now. I'm curious you often use that expression and the man said well. It is hard to be a Jew so the represents why are you surprised. Your son doesn't want to do. What a better design it? It's good to be a Jew. He was so committed to the use of that language. You would know because he grew up in Israel. What do they call handicapped soldiers in Israel? The expression gets up hates our which means the handicapped so nine thousand nine hundred seventy six three years after the Six Day War Group of NATO handicap soldiers from Sal. Obviously referring to soldiers suffered injuries that could not fully corrected. They show up in New York in part to give them a good time and go to meet with specialist but they do ask to see the rigby and and the ready set. I know that they call you fates as one of the rare times if you can look it up. It's one of the rare times. The Rebbe gave a speech in Hebrew and he was apologetic because he had a very thick Ashburn Isaac accent which could be hard for them to understand see spoke very slowly but he said I know an Israeli call you the handicap soldiers of towel. He said it's also known that people who have handicaps often develop compensatory abilities if you Google and go online to people who paint without hands using brushes and their teeth or brushes in their toes you'd be shocked at the quality of paintings she would see and certainly we know that blind people develop compensatory. They'll I'm noticing here better than us. They'll notice things we don't so the Raby said. Why do they have to communicate sal which defines you only what you can't do? Why can't they call you Mitsui? NHL Take the exceptional ones and define you but by what you do and I remember I had once read an account of World War. Two army veterans who've been badly hurt and one of them had lost both both arms and the day before he was released from Rehabilitation Hospital. The doctor in charge of form of tough love said today. Your Army Heroes next year. You're you're or handicapped army veterans and by the third year just GonNa be cripples you know what a different message to send people out into the world with so this was the aspect of Arabi. The extraordinary message of optimism. And I remember somebody who probably politically wouldn't be on the same page. But I remember very smart line and I want to and Thomas Friedman. He said pessimists are probably right more often than optimists but only optimistic accomplish something as we say. India the dish in shallow. Sheila thank you so much for the week. 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There's a bunch of things going on for Millennia their time-tested intrude one of them for example Judaism but another one is shaving. It's it's true that the Caveman didn't shave but pretty soon after we emerged from the caves and a little bit before we started worshiping the one true God of monotheism as recorded in Torah men started shaving and probably soon there after women started shaving. But I WANNA talk to you about the men shaved today. Because that's what I do. I do it when I'm on book tour do it. When I'M UNORTHODOX LIVE tour? That means I did IT IN DETROIT THROAT DID IT in Cleveland. I'm going to be doing it in San Diego Phoenix. I'm a man who likes to be smooth and so really I'm a man who likes Harry's there's simply no other way. Harry's is a return to the essential essential the essential shave again was written in the stars thousands of years ago when some men. I decided that they preferred smoothness Quality Gerbil blades at a fair price. Two dollars blade no more. 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How how do you redeem this? Harry's trial set go to Harrys DOT COM SLASH UNORTHODOX and be smooth to the mailbox. Oh Box We got a lot on the Jay Michaelson Liel Liebowitz conversation the Congo the summit. We're so pleased to do that. We're so pleased that you all enjoyed it. I'm very grateful for this idea. The I think it was a perfect idea. It was a really really station. Dear Unorthodox Listener writes in last week's episode. Liyel says in the discussion. Basically that tribalism is a fact of life. There's no hope hope for a peaceful conclusion to the Arab Israeli conflict. My favorite rejoinder to this is to note that when I was coming of age in the seventies and eighties there were two hopeless conflicts. Go on in the world. Northern Ireland and South Africa in both cases different tribes were seemingly endless conflict with no solution in sight and then they made peace in Northern Ireland which has endured and they made a peaceful transition in South Africa that has endured love the show. Dan Carlin Sharon Massachusetts. I have to say when I was listening. Also my sent my my thought. Dear Unorthodox Orthodox just a quick note to say that I listened to Jay Michaelson and Leo's episode today. It was fantastic. There's at least one spinoff. podcast their first idea for spinoff. podcast Jane Ainley L.. Spent Five seasons working through their original list of questions at the same pace as this episode. Second idea for spinoff mark makes a different intellectual. Shoulda different match every week yours. Daniel Servian Ski Daniel Alisa Jan.. We ought to decide how much more time they want to spend together in terms of making a different intellectual shit up every week There aren't that many Saddam that would be as good as this one. I can't think of another but if you have ideas many reasons why this decision was great but I think one of which is really really we both come from the same kind of point of view which is which is kind of a religious outlook on life were not political knife. Fighters were to believers who've whose is faith brought them to two very different kind of vantage points in but we share the kind of common ground of belief. Yeah it's because there's so much you disagree on but there's so much much you fundamentally agree on about your so get about how the other person feels next. Look I actually don't want to listen to that conversation with other people. There's something about that. I think the credit to mark mark that There was the magic in the match and I think I can read the rest of the mailbox. But here's my letter. There was a ton of feedback in the facebook. All of it. I think positive just about how interesting this conversation was. I think it really elucidated a lot of your views Lille to listeners. Who might not actually know how you feel about a lot of things because I think you sort of play the like gun toting conservative on the show but you never actually interrogate or really? We don't discuss our politics. It's sort of more of a caricature and so I think a lot of people were maybe a little bit confused about where you actually sat on a a lot of things to hear you speak honestly passionately about what it is that about your belief system and sort of how your religious life fits into your political life. I think it was actually something and people wanted to hear. I totally get that but really if I had to take or carry something from this conversation it really is the fact that a conversation like this possible the which we you know. Oddly stupidly lose sight of when we spent so much time and energy shouting at one another on twitter facebook or even in real life. They idea that you could have have a respectful conversation. That's not just civil or polite but it's actually really engaged right and then the idea that this is what community is about right community is not about just kind of surrounding yourself with a small cluster of people who you agree with everything. It's about being in space with the other people who are like you but have ideas and opinions that really. You can't fricking stand or understand or upset you. That's how you work through it. Dear on Orthodox team. I am a twenty-three-year-old law student born and raised in Vienna Austria a very Catholic country. I was raised Catholic attending a private Catholic school. I'm fascinated by Judaism but I just feel awfully guilty about the Holocaust I I feel close to Judaism and might consider it one day when I know more about it to convert if this is possible in Vienna but at the same time I feel like as an Austrian that Jews wouldn't want me because they would view me as evil and I can't even blame them. How do you think about this? And how would you approach this kind regards. Cristine one you're already law school basically like on the way. Hi There Kristie though that other Jews you're like eighty percent. I'd go to be fair. Austria law school isn't quite as Jewish as Nyu Cardoza Rosa. But it is interesting. The are the way you're interrogating your own feelings about all of this that sort of agonizing searching that is real that would serve you well along your journey journey to Judaism if that is the course that you do decide to take. I also don't think people are going to be like no look if some Jews are assholes to you that's part of the experience some joint. Some Jews are assholes to us. I think think for a Lotta jobs like an Austrian. This that's a trophy right. There imagining Jews would love more than like to know that this off and you could have your conflicting feelings about about Austria. Austrians like that is actually so rich and profound to love your two weeks away from a book contract. Thanks for the letter seriously. These letters really really move us. We're so excited to get international all male finally to the listener line. Hello J. crew. My name is Aaron Grocer. I'm a practicing Catholic but have been having an affair so to speak with Judaism since I I traveled to Israel Israel Sixteen and eleven years later. The spark turned into flame in the wake of the massacre at tree of life which led me to find Unorthodox. I've been an avid listener. Ever since since I've become more and more open about my love for Jewish faith I continue to find friends and even two of my siblings. who feel some more spark? I can't help but wonder it does. Not just a cultural interest but a yearning in my heart for my soul to find his way home advice for a person who's continuing to feel more and more out of place in the Catholic Catholic Church and constantly feeling wrong closer to the truth and I seem to be reaching for thank you mark l.. And stuff the amazing work that you do much from Greenville. We know tendencies. Welcome to the conversation. We are so I don't I don't know what so. Three of the twelve grows are siblings have had a Jakiri have had flirtations nations with maybe even have gone to first base with Judaism. That's fascinating I mean. I guess if you have enough kids the odds are three of them are going to end up. Jewish that's the strong batting average. I don't know what the scene is. Like in Greeneville Tennessee and who there is to talk to. I mean you didn't say if you've gone to services at a synagogue or taking a class at the JC or something but get to know some people who are a couple steps further down the path in terms of their thinking or their observance. But look if all you want to do is watch. Jewish stuff on Netflix and lake. Read some books. That's Garret. Auchev Rachel Gentile among us. You know we've heard that conversion courses tell people to listen to our podcast which I love. They also offer like lists of books in movies and I want people to send those to us. Yeah I mean we could make our own but I'm curious about like what it is that you're you're supposed to watch Schindler's list. Is it Seinfeld and also I want someone in Greeneville Tennessee. Who's listening right now to write in and say like I'll meet him? We a Chabad dinner or just a coffee dates. You're by anyone I don't know I don't know geography Agra fee but any cities near Tennessee. It's so fascinating because really you know I have a little bit of a side thing with Catholicism which which is that's true religion I'm fascinated. That's true I think there's a real emotional until shows spiritual bind between these two particular forms of faith so it doesn't doesn't surprise me in the least that someone who's connected to his faith becomes by curious about the thing that I would add is I think Erin for you just From little you've given us I think the path it might actually be you know less cultural experience and maybe even more theological question those fundamental differences. I mean really kinda comes down to like the the man the God j. c. j. c. is if this is something that you could kind of contemplate if this is something that you could grapple with if you could make the theological shift and maybe you found a new home you know. I've had points in as deeply rooted and and and crazy proud as I am of my Judaism. I did play this game. Like what if if I was Catholic. I I just can't do it. I mean spiritual leap is just a step too far from me. Nothing in me is ready to make that acceptance in everything in me feels very much at home where where I am but maybe Aaron it's different field but we really do want to hook you up with someone near where you live. I hope people reach out to us. We will be great. You Coffee Date Shabbat Dinner. Martini What have you and of course all of you? Whatever it is that you want to reach out to us for nine one four five seven four eight six nine or unorthodox tablet MAG DOT COM are? Gentile of the week is for route quarry. He's the chairman and chief executive officer and president of Ethan Allen and he is the author of the Book Trailblazer from the mountains of Kashmir to the summit of global business. And beyond. Please welcome Mr Clark. The first thing his Thank you for the free donations to our audience. They're very excited for their sheds long. Thank you so okay you are the CEO Chairman and President of Ethan Allen. How's IT looking here like you're on a chair? We have a coffee table. You're gonna Pew like what. What is your honest appraisal? Honestly Asli I was expecting Ethan Allen Jr is it's the Leonard Yes right. Are you like a when you go somewhere. Are you always looking at the appointing 's of of the of a home or an office. But I cannot help it because this is what I do every day. I look look at when I came in here. I look at the light. I look the carpeting I look at all your finishings. Then I look at the people you came to the United States at twenty I was twenty years. Tell us that story. I grew up in Kashmir beautiful land. Great Mountains but it's also so as you as you know an area of conflict and in fact unfortunately has become even somewhat more in the last few weeks. Shaath family got involved in this conflict that that was about four and a half years. Old Family got divided when my father and three of us on one side and my mother and one brother and sister got separated from us so we became sort of refugees. Even though my father was well to do families will to do you know. Kashmira was divided between India and Pakistan. We all from what is called the Valley of Kashmir and at fifty seven back to the valley and my main occupation was sports. I was a captain of the cricket team and many of you most probably know cricket. Great great game lasts three days instead of three hours straight game at anyway there was an event where the tremendous mundus modern issues. That took place and I was playing. Cricket in India in Delhi came back on a plane and sitting next to me was the American so I asked him why going to Kashmir with tremendous amount of problems he said I'm a journalist from the Washington Evening Star and I want to cover this and I said well well you know. There are two million people in the streets of the population at that time before four and a half million. And how are you going to get around. He said I don't know I'll take take you around. I shouldn't have said that. And of course I took him around for four or five days and he then settled down he ran back and then a month a month and and a half later gave me a name. I got a call and he said I'm Howard Shafer and I'm a diplomat in the US embassy. And I haven't told you the best person to take somebody around and and my my grandfather the head of the family said never ever meet an American but of course I did. I took him around. got into more trouble and then both of them helped and and there were other factors too such as twenty. I ended up from the from this Beautiful Mountains Beautiful Brooklyn and we call it making Aliyah. Yeah no I lived in Flatbush at in fact you know talking Brooklyn I had. I thought I had not met Jewish people. I do not know because in the mountains we. We're not knowledgeable about all the problems of the Middle East and all those things. Of course I found out that Howard Shafer washers and when I came in nine in Brooklyn listen. I met a great family the family and sort of adopted me. I know the Levi's did the Jerry Lee Memi Levy and the kids and it was there that that also I got admission to NYU business school. But I needed a job. I had no experience so I saw an ad. It said bookkeeper needed to ask my class. Fellows what does bookkeeper do. Because I'd never seen even in a calculator they said don't apply but I went and I convince them as long story but I convinced them that I know bookkeeping and I got the job so I went to Nyu business school because you could do that. You're just faked it as a bookkeeper until until you made it. I mean that that's right. Nobody helped this was a small little printing company printed envelopes by rigid King and Jesse Jackson. Again Nice Jewish people. It just happened when there. He opened up a ledger and there was a calculator. Hand operated calculator to looked at me. He said Guinea Foot. The Books Stroz looking at my feet said I look at him and I said what's an English they said well. Where have you learned bookkeeping? I had to be make something up. By sending England. The only thing England I had done was changing plane. So fortunately for me luck has to be part of it. The he bought his Jesse is ticking. Said I have an appointment to go somewhere and you come back. I said I'll wait. And there was this lady animals sally. Those days call Gal Friday and apron envelopes and the back. So she's looking at me and said you bookkeeping. I said nothing but I need a job. So she gave me a forty five minutes to to`real and when these people came said what do you think of the books folks. I said they need work. I got a job. One dollar and seventy five cents to leap forward in time a little bit. You do a lot of interfaith breath work. You're you're the CO chairman of the Muslim Jewish Advisory Council of the American Jewish Committee. Did you have a strong Muslim identity. Growing did not. I'm going to basically Kashmira ninety percent Muslim Islam to Kashmir came in the six seven centuries and was mostly almost all spread by Sufis that game am to Kashmir so. It's somewhat of a different perspective. The lot of shrines so we did not when we were growing up. Like for instance go to mosque every every week. It was really bent but we talked. We're taught about Islam. My father my mother especially who happens to be by the way now. She lives in the Hebrew home in Riverdale Tale. If somebody had said sixty s begged her mother would end up in the Hebrew home in Riverdale crazy and I the trustee of the the Hebrew home. She's teaching them all cricket right well you know. It's an amazing. Some are mother. My mother and father taught especially mother they said again in and again. The word Islam means submission and the word Muslim means a person who submits and you submit to God and God equals goodness so they said just submitter goodness. That's all we were taught. What about now? Are you still. What's your relationship to? I mean I'm asking you the question. We ask each other pretty much every week on the show the same thing exactly. I have discussed this many many times even in the White House even ones as really ambassador had invited me along with others to talk about religion. I said I thirty seconds wins shocked and exactly what I just said because we have made religion show complicated all religion. That's Tillerson's fault. He needs eight hundred. You Know Oh we have made it too complicated. It's not that complicated. In fact I was just sitting there while I was listening. I picked up the book. One of your prayer books done the last few pages ages and their prayers from the various religions from the six DEGEN's Christian if you read them the all same gotta treat people with dignity. You've got to be good people. WE'VE GOT TO HAVE PEACE I. I don't know why it'd be below fighting man. Let's get back to Ethan Allen. How did you end up there? Then guess me being sports. I ended up studying English literature and Political Science while my family thought I was going to be a doctor or engineer. What what most people were doing that but I was in sports so when I came got admission at NYU Graduate School of business? I was not fully qualified but I did and so I've got a student wouldn't adviser and he said what do you study. I don't know how about accounting shy so I went to the I was about a month late. Two classes. There were debits is credit. I said knows a headache then. He said about economics. I said Okay I went in there and microeconomics graphs charts. I said no marketing never never heard the word is and what is it is convincing people to buy and sell and I said that I can do so. I studied marketing but I was working now as a bookkeeper and and my grandfather by this point a real bookkeeper. You still a fake. No pretty good poor monthly salary. I gotTa tell you one thing. Also I learned that is Jesse Marijn Kingdom always used to argue. I was in sports at cricket teams. I've always arguing so finally I said twenty twenty plus something and they looked much older and you know when somebody's even forty looks much older. There's always argue and so one day I said to them. I said you know. I've been listening to argue all the time. What's the problem? Maybe I can help you. So they looked at me said you said Yep well they said this. Today we are discussing passing the how much money we can get from cash. I said I'm the bookkeeper. I know each one hundred dollars I should get ten at. He said why I said. I'm doing advice so I learned two things. Common Sense is very important and asking something for yourself. Results are important but as an immigrant. There's there's something that is really touching to me about the fact that a fellow immigrant is now in charge of this company that is really seen as one of the Pentagon's like American taste of like a certain and kind of know upper-middle-class refinement. These stop to think about this about the sort of like I'm the cricket from Kashmir look at me no. I got to tell you this but I came came and landed in Queens then Winter Brooklyn. My biggest shock was the next day I was told. I've gotta go underground to take away in Kashmir or go underground and don't come out. I said what I really felt bad but the next two days I saw people around. I said there are no different. I have seen Americans in Hollywood movies Areso cowboy movies but none of those in the subways or others. I said I'm one of them and I also came from an area of conflict. I when I took those journalists around the the diplomat they arrested me. I went to jail. I saw in America. That does not happen free person. Nobody's watching you so I became. I said to myself I'm no different. See A lot of people who come from many places they continue to think that somehow their home some rails in America you come and to me I said this is my home and that was it now certainly of great association nation with Kashmir. But going back to your question about Ethan Allen was this that when I was working at the printing company my grandfather and father made it very important decision to help me by sending me drill Vika baskets full of arts and crafts. They were in the business of arts and crafts in Kashmir. So I said what I do I do with the railway. Keep him anyway. I printed because when the printing company Kashmir Products Ltd.. Po Box Wall Street station because Nyu business school was near Wall Street. I said what do I sell them. Are Margaret Class received. A lecture from Marvin Traub was a chairman and CEO Bloomingdale's very well known merchant. I called his office ten twelve days every day that I have something very important to discuss i. Eight days had always busy captain calling. Finally they got tired and asked me to come to I. Six seven items there. He'd gotten a call the merchants they looked at it. He's a very good. And as an order for Bloomingdale's became accustomed instrument bloomingdale's and Taylor's one not others all of a sudden now I will doing bookkeeping selling arts and crafts and I'm going to school at night and after bookkeeping the People Jesse Isaac Send Richard King said offering a year. I didn't realize it they said. Nyu Business School is near Wall Street. Why don't you get a job on Wall Street? I I'm studying marketing. And what would I tell them. Does it tell them. You're you want a job as a financial analyst. How Oh you know? I'm twenty one or so so into the first building on Wall Street one Wall Street. Walk up and it's that time called Irving Trust building another sixteenth flow roll. I convinced and got a job with turns as a financial analyst so then to learn I'm sorry and the Afghans. Do you want to be president. Yeah you know so now in business. I'm at best friends and my personality was such that I will Louis listen to some of these big brokers traders. Those are big big big company and I would go to the understand Mr lawyer doing this. What what are you telling me that you don't understand anyway year later? I was recruited by a new firm being established by the rothschilds European European Rothschild's head of one hundred million dollar fund and they needed the portfolio manager needed a junior financial senior financial or middle financial analysts. I got the job. So it was their country and Allen that one of my associates Roger Wittmann lives in Westchester Associate. Said you know. I know the founder of Ethan Allen now Ethan Allen was Ethan Allen didn't found Ethan Allen did he did but he died but let me get back the two founders of Ethan to Jewish entrepreneurs from Staten Island in nineteen thirty two. They went to Vermont to the Northeast Kingdom and established a furniture company and Quality Allen. Because you can get from this. They weren't going to call let like Schlomo and started making early American furniture and they were entrepreneurs and things they can establish Ethan Canal galleries and now The headquarters at that time was in Manhattan. So this my friend Roger Whitman said I know the chairman urban and one of the founders would like to mention my said yes so when he brought in one of his merchants as as young man from Kashmir. Did we get anything from there. He said Yes we get. This fabric never comes on time always a problem so he looked at me and said you can help it absolutely. I had no idea so I got in the fabric business with Alan. Well that's how it started then a year and a half later he calls me. The question is this. You can't say absolutely and don't do it. You got absolutely and do it. That's the difference so rabbi Kabwari we. We're out of time. We're out of time but before we go spend a lot of time around Jews it sounds like and not just visiting in your mother but are there any questions that you have about our people. That are still unanswered. We always give the gentile of the week opportunity to. It's a safe space to to ask US anything. That's still just really. There's no question to uncouth and nobody. Here's GonNa tell anyone what you say anything. You WanNa no no no but I gotta tell you this in about two years back or three years back when we had established this Muslim Jewish Advisory Council the agency's still running it Stanley Bergman and myself L. I was invited to speak at the. AJC Big Convention in Washington. I don't know three or four thousand people show up. I got up there and I looked at all of those folks six and I said it's question might come up that you just asked. I let me tell you what in the native language of Kashmir what the report what's called Kashmir. If I were to meet you I will not ask you. Are you from Kashmir and I would call you are you from Cassia and burst. Coming from. Cashier is called Kosher tries to enter them. I am Washer that anybody here or or you're three thousand people. The I became president of Ethan Allen of thirty six years back. So I've been running that company and Ethan Allen has has been now eighty seven years has only to CEO's net and sal and myself. And I. Just I'm just getting started. Thank you so much for being are gentiles. Do even when we find somebody WHO's not Jewish Kosher Kosher that's that's absolutely right. Mazal Tov 's Lee the L. have you a muzzle top. This week due to a small company you know an underdog in the the American corporate landscape Disney today having launched a service that I kind of think would probably mean that you will not see or hear from me in the next three years Disney pluses out today featuring the men delorean the Fed story all the Star Wars all the marvel universe. Someone out. There really cares excited you or your kids. Kids know me by. I was up at like five fifty four this morning to make sure that at six. Am Sharp which is the moment at the bued. I downloaded the APP and signed on. Like I can tell you into this. I am they made a show about the bubble universe. Starring Taika Waititi and Verner Herzog's ISIC. Someone has been meeting like my diary and then producing it on us. It's amazing so basically that was Aramaic to me. What you just won't Walmart Order Ordinary Werner or Werner Herzog Wont Wont Wont Wont Wont Wa six? Am Wa wa. Who might have been on at the same time with Jay Michaelson actually brought? Oh absolutely it's super to that seventy well. Speaking of new creations coming into the. I've a big sister. Francesca and Cliff Silverman Iran on the birth of Little Charlie and a big muscle to big brother Noah who is taking it all in stride he says baby toddy see the baby. I mean I'm very excited about Baby Charlie. But does he feature. Oh thirty seasons of the simpsons doesn't I just don't know matches up leaps and he's very excited being an aunt has been just like the best thing ever. I now a double end. I have hope Paxil of Mazal Tov this week. The first is is to Joseph Goodman Yossi Goodman as I've always called him he was my daughter's first Hebrew tutor when he was a college undergrad he then spread his wings. He got a BA from college and and graduated into the big world. And just the other night Sunday evening. He married his college sweetheart. Actually not really. They started dating like April of senior year memo to all of you ask her now ask him now. All the couples who stay together ask them now variant don't graduate without having made the move because Joseph Gorman and Laura aspire fire got married Sunday night in a fabulous wonderful beautiful wedding which they invited all seven Oppenheimer's there babysitting game with strong. There were a a lot of flower girls. They call it the flower posse. The Flower Posse had to be there even before the attack in the in the all in the flower posits wonderful of and they had the best party favor for the flower posse ever each kid who was in the flower posse got a sleeping bag with their name got into wit and they were able to kind of crop in this Levy magazine the babysitting room while they watched movies during the wedding if they so chose and it was just it was so thoughtful right. Like 'cause a sleeping bag you will have that with you forever. You will always think Joseph and Laura's wedding wedding Even into adulthood. You can have that sleeping bag. So Mazal Tov to Joseph and Laura's a beautiful wedding we are so so happy for you also said Olivia. Nee Framer now oppenheimer turned forty three years old this week and so a happy birthday to her. Welcome come to your mid forties my sweet love and I'd like to include by turning them over to a listener. We got this voice mail about someone we've heard of before high I wanted to ask you to get gospels hoster. Rabbi Paula rose in Seattle transportation vets. Shalom Rosen her husband. Jeremy just had their child a daughter named a Dean residents best cast and Rabbi rose has been instrumental in bringing interesting Jewish podcast troy segregate including of course on Orthodox so it'd be great to give shadow thanks so muzzle top to rabbi rose and family and now the muzzles from our Stanford show there were some very good ones. Let's hear him. This is awesome. My name is Robyn. I'm from Stanford Connecticut. And I'd like to offer a Mazal Tov for my parents Ellen. and Richard Weber upcoming fortieth wedding anniversary of that. The Kaplan and I would like to give Mazal tough to the Jewish Historical Society of Fairfield County for getting a grant from the city of standard for our family store project and for honoring to amazing women. Judy Othman and Agnes Verdes. They're both Holocaust survivors. And those spoken to over a hundred thousand all right. My name is Marissa Fernandez. I wanted to give to my team. The hills of West Chester staff staff. We are killing it for this holiday season and unfortunately my team couldn't be here because we had a board meeting but I got an excuse slip to come here tonight. Rebecca's Rebecca Arise and I WANNA say Mazda to my husband for becoming a moyle. ooh I love and I want to give a muzzle to off two. My granddaughter daughter Rachel Spread love of went through a kosher conversion Baz Lubbock from Stamford Connecticut. And I WANNA wish model types of my son Ari who will turn five next week and to my my mother who next month will turn seventy. I'm a David Dain from scarsdale. New York Two years ago I think this week you did a muzzle tough to my son and a and his bride on their marriage and Ned liked to do a Mazal Tov on the birth of our first granddaughter. The name Gabriela Rose Dane you like that high. Melissa Garber Hyman and I'm from Stanford I wanted to give three Mazal tubs. One is for for my son who just got married. The other one is for my daughter. WHO's getting married in a month from now and the third one is from my husband who just started a new job in the prison industry? Wow that's a lot going on for this family saw there's a metaphor in there somewhere muzzle. Hi I'm in Lillian top from Woodbridge and I'm so excited to meet you guys because I listen to you every week when I walk but I wanna wish my son Alexander and his new wife Alexandra what was their wedding. Hashtag old I was my my job is going to be. That's love. When would you like invite a lifetime of bad jokes? It's your world you you gotTa really love each other. That's amazing to them okay. Unorthodox brought. Did you buy tablet magazine on the Web. At tablet MAG DOT COM. Send US your thoughts at unorthodox tablet MAG DOT COM or. Call us and leave a voicemail. Nine one four five seven forty eight sixty nine. That's nine one. Four five seven Israel Israel Woodstock subscribe to our newsletter bit dot L. Y. Slash Unorthodox podcast. We often come to live. took us or advertise with us. Email Josh Cross J. K. R. O. S. TABLET MAG DOT COM. You need to wear and carry stuff from unearth at Oxford mugs or cosies or onesies or t shirts go to bit dot l. y. slash. Ortho shirt you can follow us on instagram or on twitter. You Can Jenner facebook group. Our show is produced by Josh Kraushaar. Associate producer is Sarah Friedman. ater artwork is pastor worker. Our Social Media Messiah Has Abrahams. Our theme music is by Gholam. Their website is golden call them rocks DOT COM or mailbox. Team is by Steve Martin Rabbinic Supervision this week by Rabbi Joshua the Hammer Home Maccabi cameramen rabbi Jerry Ginsburg. Rabbi Vicki L.. Acts and Cantor Moshe Bear. We usually come from Argo studios in Lower Manhattan. But tonight we are coming to you. From Temple Beth El of Stamford Connecticut. Shalom friends. The thank you. The heavens just opened behind we'll see you in the reception hall where we're here. This is the classic. Leon Leon would bean L L Dean of Portuguese Flannel Shirt. They're called the original L. O.. Bean was Leon Leon. Would Bean said like Jewish. You know super wasps Leon Middle Name Leon on wood. Oh I hear Leon and I hear like the Smart Guy. Automatically guy eating a corned beef sandwich. Joe No super super wasps up in Maine. who used to stitch? The clothes like it used to be Mr Bean's descendants and their friends in Maine stitching the close and now they've outsourced the press as they are the Anti J. press not an ad just an observation.

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Lunch Dates: Ep. 224

Unorthodox

1:24:18 hr | 4 months ago

Lunch Dates: Ep. 224

"Forgive us if we lose if we get irritated but you do. You will do us and you know this is unorthodox. The Universe is leading Jewish podcast. I'm your host Mark Oppenheimer joined US ever tablet. Deputy Editor Stephanie. Budnick hello hello and senior writer Liel Liebowitz and a very happy fifth day of the Omer to overcome that already Joe. Is that how we're going to know? Like the tacit of time because all we have left only thing we've got now another year another late. Start on the air By the way I always feel a little bit self conscious like before I was a professional. Ju- Cassar I had your name mark do casting caster. Most of us have no idea what the is at inside. The Jewish media conspiracy is like the fifth day of the Omer. It's the it's the fifty days from Passover to Chivas and you're supposed to say a little prayer every night saying bless God who brought us to the seventy It's like our version of lent exactly except we don't give anything up. We just add is never haircut. An extra Kepi kiss for the kids at night like hey good night. Seven side of the O- Mayor. Ma Daddy loves you. It is one of the greatest traditions ever. It's a real thing. Yeah you know it's like you just get into it and he's like what's GonNa Happen in day fifty. We get the tore. Our honestly since. We're all like castaways in our homes right now. Those of us who are lucky enough to be home I feel like Kevin the o'meara's maybe like our new calendar like the open by the end of the Omar. I hope that that Simpson's thing that video that which they count the mayor is I hope that's still up the Internet. Because that's the lay persons introduction to the Omar either that or counting the Omar from the WAAS. Yes that was a great well so much. Time for punning right now today we bring you once again. We play the game to Jews in a gentile. You're going to be talking with celebrated author and frequent Jew of the week. Aj Jacobs who spoke with Stephanie. Before Passover I spoke with my Buddy Eric Ackland who owns a used bookstore in Pittsburgh that I think is the cat's pajamas to use an expression that I once heard that they use in pits in the mid west. They love calling the cat's pajamas. And we all sat down with my friend and all around. Great Gentile quaker gentile. In fact Andy Boone. Who's GonNa talk to us about on so few quakers although early now they've had Andy we've had about one of the quakers that there are so we can pat ourselves on the back. How was everyone's Seder a bit of an Unorthodox Cedar this year Leon how did things roll on the upper west so I hope no one who usually attends? Our Cedar is listening because Y'all are valued guests and you were missed and loved and would love to have you back again. It was seriously a kind of spectacular cedar for the ages. Us The kids were actually into it. They read the whole thing like is he supposed to say he got it. You should tell your sons and daughters and like the kids are never into it. They're always into you. Know their uncles are answer. Grandpa or whatever it is but now there's there's nothing else do you're sitting around the table. They're asking questions they're into it. We were singing. It was just this glorious magical down on your Seder every year and it turns out. The solution was actually just. Don't invite any of those. I'm down to my cedar because they make the same but king mistake every year when a time course meal right it's like I will amaze an entertaining which is so stupid and like you know says so much about me and my own picking insecurities but this year. Yeah I had no options. It was just me and the kids and it was amazing. What was it like a man it was it was what's known as a medium size. Seder in most families seven of us and it was. It was nice I mean. Well I'm GONNA be honest. Here's the thing is like we one of the things that I'm really proud of you know and there's a lot that I'm fine with my Jewish light theirself. I'm ambivalent about their stuff. I'm embarrassed about like every Jew. I have mixed feelings about all the myriad ways I relate to Judaism but I realized this year that I missed the Seder that we've evolved as a family the tradition that we've had sid cooks an enormous amount and takes a lot of pride in the things that she can make tasty while keeping them kosher for Passover. Matza lasagna the flour less chocolate cake and we typically have twenty or twenty one people at. It's a mix of old old friends like Max who's been coming to sids for Sater's since they were both in college and instead of going home to the Midwest Max would go to New York City with said when they were both undergrads at maximum. Has this fabulous wife and they have a new baby who we were going to meet this year. And he's been doing doing Passover with with Sid Framer now Oppenheimer's since like nineteen ninety five and then always we pick up a few stragglers and on the one hand for the introverts in my family it was nice to just have seven of us and I think we had a nice time. But it's always such a sense of occasion and afterwards Anna. Actually I'll tell you something. Who's you know six and like the extroverts extrovert she? She broke down crying the next day over a lot of things like she misses her friends. She misses school and she also said I want a Seder with people and that was really. Got To me schmos. Yeah it was. The first time I felt like real corentin despair Stephanie. I really WANNA get the owner second but mark. Something you said. Made me wonder. Is this a particularly troubling time for extroverts extroverts run around during Corentin be like Oh my God life is over? Should we be paying special attention to pray for the extroverts guys? Jus- clapper them at seven. Pm I mean it's I've talked to a bunch of introverts who say like yeah. You know it's sort of existential troubling what's going on in the world. My own sort of emotional temperature is actually better than it's been in a long time because all call it shelter at home. I call it April. Look I've gotTa have critical mass within my household other as like definitely what centers me at four o'clock if the days been a little hectic and I need a breather is to go outside and like aggressively looked bump into neighbors and chat with them and that that calms me down and I miss. I miss that so thank you for asking. Thank you for the compassion. Leo But how is Seder at Unorthodox? Downtown Stephanie Budnick and Ben Cohen's household Cedar was kind of very special. This your look. I think it was the big thing for us to get through. I mean think about how much time and energy we spent like helping people get ready getting people the digital version of the heck out of the I spent so much of my days in the lead up to pass over being like we gotta get ready. We gotTA DO Seder Academy we gotta do these special episodes and then Passover happens itself and then you realize it's its own separate thing and I will say my food was success. Made the bone apetite best multiple soup so I felt really good about that. Is the last of it today. Got Better and better. Every single day had never made multiple soup before. I made an Allison Roman like potato. Cogo Lucca thing. That actually was a real disaster through it all out and I was like wow. I wasted six eggs on this. This is not. It's not a good thing but you know like we do what we had. And it was very sweet. Soom Sater's were a little weird a little choppy. It's also weird to go from using zoom I for professional purposes to using it for like a ritual event with family. So that felt a little weird. You really felt grateful. I felt grateful for the family. I mean it's I just was like overcome with emotion and I never I don't like that at all But I think this is not for you. I allowed myself to feel feel the fields and then Passover is over and then it sort of was like what what now you know. We had this thing to talk about what was ever I'm GonNa make. What did everyone have what they need it in a weird way like that? Was this big thing. Like how are we going to deal with? Passover Passover is over and it's like Oh actually are we going to deal and I think that I imagine a lot of people are feeling that way of like okay. So now everything's just regular. There's like what we wait for Memorial Day so good to have milestones. It really is Wednesday guys but forty five more count the days so Lille you are so speaking of introverts like you've got your books you've got your children you've got your home schooling to To accomplish with them like is this the best of times or you feel out of sync with the rest of the world. Like what's it like up there look overall? This is a kind of a tremendous time for us. We love being together. We Love homeschooling. The Kids we love the activities does just one thing. I've been thinking about the Salat. That kinda gets me and it gets me every other day of the year too but I feel recently a really has become way more kind of prominent and that thing is TV now. Look I'm not one of these snobs like a al-tv. You should only watch Akira Kurosawa films. A rally not before anyone accuses you TV snobbery. Let's be clear you wrote a dissertation on Video Games. Yeah and I love John Can. I'm into the real housewives. All these things are good right. It's fine however it really seems to me that especially lately. Tv has kind of become the Sun. Around which you know the entire planet revolves all people in my feed on. Social media seemed to care about is tiger king and a host of other shows. And here's the thing like I gave these shows a shot. It's just it's so coarse an ugly and dump. Why would you spend your time especially now in the rest of the world is kind of teetering on the verge of some catastrophe? Why would you waste your time steeped in ugliness and brutality? Just sit down and read a beautiful book. I'm reading a book about Ezra Pound in a mental institution and it's just so refreshing and nurturing and I know I sound like the world's biggest tool saying this but I I can't take TV anymore. Do you feel on this one forever. You forgot to tell us to get off your lawn right so this is what I sound like myself. I love what when someone else like. Where's the colonel? Ann Hats? Even the good things I tried shits creek and like three episodes. Yes it's entertaining but why waste my time. It's just like it's fluffy. You could sit down and get so much more. Swear it's interesting because what we have right now is like a glut of information. I feel like I'm on my phone and everything in the world is available to me and it's like I can read news of Corona virus. I could read like horror stories. I can reach soothing stories. I could read like amazing stories about nurses doing this. And you're like Oh my God there's so much there's so much to consume and I think that in a way. Tv helps like. I haven't been able to read books. Honestly it's it's hard for me to get into something that I focus on. Honestly what's been getting me through? Is this podcast called? Phoebe reads a mystery to be clear. Everyone should be listening to a podcast all the time like I think. Let's introducing the audio audio for me is a happy medium. Like a can't really read magazines or books. It's just hard to focus. I'm having a lot of trouble focusing and I think that. Tv is nice. Like we've been watching. That men were on season two. I think the show like has it's GonNa be big guys get onboard Onboard Madman I think it ended ten years ago. But that's actually a really fun escape because it's in the fifties and sixties right but you know that's fun because I'm watching these people and like if you leave the office and don't tell them where you're going. No one knows where you are and the hot. It's like. There's an escapism about that right like they don't have the time just like being like where's dawn. I don't know I never thought of it. That dot draper could leave the office. Like Gopher four Martinis then go downtown to make love to his mistress in the village. Back at three o'clock and people are like Oh. I've been a pitch meeting. I've been drumming up business. I never thought of that and like he lives in Ossining and he takes the train grand central to ossining. And I'm like how early. What how. How much time does he spend in transit and like it just so funny to me to watch that because I think that we're the opposite of that Stephanie. This is this is the podcast I want right now. I wanted to talk shows in which you do not. So how long was this commute? So Tony Soprano. What's the mile per gallon situation on his pickup? Whatever but Ivan really enjoying this podcast and then like my time. I don't know did you ask about me. My me time is like when I wash the dishes and I. It's like twelve thirty and I'm like wash the dishes until I listen to. I'm listening to her. Read Agatha Christie's first mystery novel and so I'm like very every time I go into my kitchen. I'm like did dorkiest. The main do like like I have these like auditory cues anyway. That's a lot about me. Listen I split the difference that I'm sort of with you like I'm shocked how much time some people will put into TV. Not because again not. Because I'm a SNOB like literally. My little. Google Avatar right now is is the old nine. Oh Two one oh icon. Right I am. I was watching. I watched like half of the first tiger king and it would so neolithic so gross and I had the exact same feeling I had when I finally abandoned. Game of thrones which is like life is too short to just like wallowing this bleak right. I don't care I don't care how nice the camera angles are or how artistically. It was edited or cut together. What surprises coming episode four? It's like there is actually this world of of goodness and art and human relations and life that I actually WanNa live in finite time on this planet and that doesn't mean that I'm not like trying curb your enthusiasm Shits Creek for the eighth time I keep. I keep trying 'cause people I respect are like but it's so funny and my kids are watching the north nuts on Youtube. And if you don't with that is that will really kill some of your brain cells. We have finite time and I. I am reading books right now. So that's that's me the other thing I want to see him doing? Though is rebecca good time watching old eighties movies and I just get. She said Daddy Television SNOBBERY BEDROOM. Schooling plan exactly. Homeschooling plan is where we've watched vacation sixteen candles and the breakfast club a lot of Anthony Michael Hall in the eighties. I didn't remember. He was original rusty indication. Not Stephanie a moment ago you were talking about New Jersey and the Sopranos was I that takes us to the original Garden Ornaments fountains of Wayne which is featured in the Sopranos and became the name of a band that start one Adam Schlesinger and in news of the Jews this week We have to note that cove in nineteen has claimed one of the great songwriters of all time one of my favorite artists. Adamson who was fifty one years old and not only did found some way into the amazing song. Stacy's mom and about thirty songs even better than that but they he was the music director for crazy ex girlfriend right and then like he also did the song for the movie that thing you do and just just such an amazing talent. Hey J. crew producer Josh Cross. Kate here and I'm just GONNA cut in with a little musical medley tribute to Adam. Schlesinger and his songwriting. Like many people. My introduction to him was his first band fountains of Wayne. Hey sweet any Dante. So bad. Know Connoisseur Vienna state is joke in under saw. It seems from your food as Mark said skills were so much more than just incredible garage pop songs about New Jersey. Perhaps his most amazing early achievement is the title. Song for Tom. Hanks Nineteen ninety-six movie. That thing you do about ban that had a number one hit that was as big as the Beatles so we had to write a song that could believably smash. Pop hit in the nineteen sixties. He nailed it. See that's a genuine pop smash. Adam went on to write for a Neil Patrick Harris performance. Tony's and work with Rachel Bloom to write her songs for crazy ex girlfriend which also featured Patti lupone Tova Feld shoe. I'll let those a little more fountains of Wayne wrap it up. You feel like someone. This world exclude myths. No longer only for through like dudes attention. Every you're invited Peter. It's not just days now. It's time to celebrate. Grab a drink and fix a plate but before you feel too great. Remember that we suffered nights like these off filled with grief gnashing dancing singing but we sing in a minor to remember that we suffered south. You have no idea what paying that we suffered would be such a crime for. The boys are to mention in the songs. One time. Remember that base up Apollo. Wait savings at them. You will be missed so sorry to begin with some incredibly sad news the Jews. He was a great artist of so. Maybe let's bounce to some happier news from the world of Songwriters Artists Stephanie. I watched really one of the more incredible things I've ever seen so Saturday night live. This past week was recorded remotely and was pretty terrible right like completely disappointing. Something that else that was recorded remotely in like under two weeks is something called the Saturday night. Seder and this was tons of Broadway legends. Who came together and basically did a fundraiser for the foundation and so they raised two and a half million dollars and it was like Ben. Platt Judith Light Debra Messing Billy Porter and go down Moses Denzel singing the four questions which you didn't actually know could be sung by someone with a beautiful voice and sound amazing and not just like a teenager understand me. It was really really fun and interesting and like I and I have a friend who were part of the making of it and I'm really really proud and you know it's the kind of thing that I honestly was skeptical about what I saw. I saw the press release with all the celebrity names and they have Josh Groping. They have Dave Dan. Levy they have all these people and I think because of what we do. We become a little bit cynical to this idea that like celebrities are interesting. When they discussed their Jewishness right like I think. Sometimes that's not the case discovered or that you know they sort of play it for laughs or or do something that yes. We're proud of them. Obviously that they're Jewish brag about them and we send this email around to say. Look how many Jews are in this Broadway thing but actually that wasn't the case at all. There was a really really deep historical under girding of it. You know there was stuff about the rum's research about AIDS. I mean there was this real have to it. But actually made Ben Platt singing somewhere over the rainbow in Judith. Light exploiting you know the songwriters who created that song and how it really was about escaping the pogroms of Europe. And you're like oh so I just was really moved by that and you can still watch Saturday night. Seder DOT COM and on Youtube and I just honestly it blew me away again like forgot that I could feel feelings and then I felt that so I hate theater. The way markets museums. Like to me. It's kind of creepy thing that I I absolutely don't get why people would ever do. Why would you wanna be so close to actress? You might just beyond me. And so when I heard this for all the reasons you stated and then a whole host of personal once thought this is going to be a disaster and yet I had. I don't know like twenty minutes to kill on Sunday as fine. Whatever the kids reminding Muslims come. Let's wash this thing probably be stupid. It was so freaking charming. It was so incredibly kind of life affirming and beautiful that watching the whole thing and it had melted my heart too. I swore to myself that this episode was not going to be like tips for what to read or listen to or watch while under quarantine and yet we've given you Adam Schlesinger fountains of Wayne and also the Saturday night Seder. And if those don't pick you up how about this? The Labor Party in Britain which seems lost forever to the dark side seems to be showing signs of life in the eyes of world. Jewry as the new head of the Labor Party is the impeccably named Keer starmer whose publicity hands were very quick to note that he is in wedlock with a GPS. It sounds so dirty. How they call it in. London went on twitter and we. We have to play this kid. We all listen to this together because this is a minute long. The Jewish communities celebrate the festival of Passover. I wanted to send my warmest wishes as you prepare for the state of meal it will of course be very different this year with the corona virus. Meaning that are the usual gathering of family and friends is simply not going to be possible for many many people. I know that that will be very difficult for many within the Jewish community. Passover is the festival of freedom when the store of liberation is told a story that is in SPA generation after generation as it will do this year. Whatever the circumstances I know that the failure of the Labor Party to deal with Anti Semitism has caused great grief in Jewish communities. I hope as you celebrate Passover this year you will have heard my apology on behalf of the Labor Party which I repeat again here. May this Passover bring a ray of hope in the darkness? I hope it's not long before we could celebrate again together. Hoxha I love this. I knew Passover is going to be difficult but kindly do you have your Butler deliver a motte surprise. You Call It on a silver platter. Stay calm and carry on to your Passover Seder meal and Coug Sue. What's great is he goes in for the customer semester. The happy holiday at the end but he can't finish it with with a at. The End Cog Samir SM- If you do not find your F- Acumen your valid will find it for you tally. Ho Find Ethical but good so a few weeks ago I had lunch with. Aj Jacobs I know that sounds strange because we are all at home but this was actually a lunch over zoom which is not something new for Aj. He's been doing it for about five years because he works from home as you may remember. I think he's been on show three times. He was on one of our earliest episodes Then he came back to talk about. His latest book. Thinks a thousand His book before that was. It's all relative. My favorite book of his is my year of living biblically and we just chatted over lunch. You'll note that we are eating bread. Which is because this was recorded before? Passover don't ask me home. I'm having lunch today with a j Jacobs author of a bazillion great books my year of Living Biblically as one of my favorites. I mean you've just done everything. It seems like every year you take on a new project you were on our show. I think most recently to tie went around and I thanked thousand. People who helped make my cup of coffee can go and get at the cafe but I'm still thankful for. I've been thinking a lot about your message of gratitude recently. Even as we're quarantined you are having lunch over zoom right now it does feel like more than ever. We should be grateful for all these things. I actually started a little corona virus edition of thanks thousand and sending out looks to grocery store. Workers and zoom employees. I said don't respond. I know you're too busy but I just want to thank you. It is one of the only ways to retain sanity. There are still things to be thankful for. Believe it or not so the reason I reached out to you is because you wrote a great piece for medium. That's basically about how you've been working from home for a while and what you started to do was have zoom lunches. Zoom is now just a word in the lexicon of two weeks ago. It's this video conference service that we've actually been using for recording our recent episodes. But you've been using it forever and you've been having lunch with people's social distancing is kind of misleading phrase. We Wanna be physically distancing but the as social as possible because it's one of the only ways to keep us from spiraling into further depression. The idea is simple. Redoing it now. I make lunch or order lunch. You do the same. And then we eat simultaneously over zoom and at the end. One of US says I'll take the check and we all laugh and laugh. But I've been doing this for five years and I've had hundreds of zoom launches with people all over the world and I love it. I love restaurants and I hope that they come back full force so I know someone has birthday party tonight. I'm doing zoom book. Talk Tonight five years ago when you said Hey. Let's meet for lunch on a screen. What were some of the responses? You got a mixed response. Some people were a little offended. I'm not good enough to see in person what's going on. You know. Try to frame it as an experiment and the lights more efficient will get more face to face time and there is something weird about how being on zoom lunch do you go right into more substantive topics like as you don't talk about The subway was so annoying. Because it wasn't he just walked over from the kitchen so that you can't talk about that we'll say that somehow. I was late for this zoom lunch because I had to deal with my lunch took took a little longer. So let's get to the substantial questions. What are you eating right now? Well today I am going to have my Bagel with Hamas. What are you having? I'm pretty proud of my lunch. It's been like the highlight of my days making a good egg-based lunch so I have a nice toasted sour loaf Alison Roman. Has This really good Charlotte Pasta and you cook like one hundred shallots and not actually many. And then you make this tomato paste and she basically says you only use half of the recipe and then you just put half in the fridge decorated my toast with it and then I heard a very jammie seven-minute egg on so I'd like an egg on bread with tomato sauce. That does sound good. I got quoted in people magazine today because I went to the grocery store a couple of days ago and I took a picture of the saddest sight which was the shell full of olive top Hamas and. There was nothing else in the store but this and I was like. Let's have a moment of silence for this and then people just started writing like other loser. Foods pickled eggs. No one seemed to be wanting that. Have you noticed any of the sad lonely foods that even a panicked will not? I think a lot of it is Hamas. That shouldn't be like even a pandemic people are not eating. That stuff right. Chocolate is another one. I saw talk homeless. And you're just like why GonNa tell and homeless spread. I wonder what will happen if retailers will sort of learn what people truly don't want. I mean it's a good time for market research. Basically right. If you cannot sell this kind of HAMAS and a panic buying apocalyptic situation you know time to reevaluate although I did get a lot of flack from olive top nod fans so it's very contrast olive topping out. It's like a specific as that you either love or you hate until like you would as Roma's if you liked it. I mean I like olive and I like Hamas. I just don't like him together. I said it's sort of like jazz brunch. I liked jazz and I liked. They don't like him together and actually I don't like jazz. So that's where the metaphor breaks down kind of over brunch. By the way are you. Well no one has it anymore so by the time you get back to being able to have run. She might have fallen light. She hit so. You've actually been very prolific during these plague filled days you wrote about your zoom lunches how you're very pre trend on that and you also wrote about being a Germaphobe in the corona virus era ahead of the curve on everything well unfortunately some things I feel. I've been a Germaphobe for about twenty years and weirdly. Well two years ago I stopped. I made a conscious decision to stop being a Germaphobe. And I'll tell you. Why but the punchline is now. I'm back to being a Germaphobe. Because if you're not a Germaphobe then there's something morally wrong with you like society depends on us being a somewhat general but I'm a different kind of Germaphobe. I think I'm a more evidence based Germaphobe but when I was doing it for twenty years I was over the top. I'm not proud of it because it was a mentally draining and financially draining situation should be buying all that parole and I would rub it on the chains of the swings when my kids got on the swing. I never shook hands. I did the elbow bump that people do now. If someone really wanted a handshake I would go in for a hug because the back of the shirt I felt was less Germany but then about two years ago I decided to try to move away from it and get over my Germaphobe partly because of our president who was a famous German and in fact about ten years ago New York Post ran an article about Germaphobe A- and Donald Trump and may were the two examples we know. Yeah like we were the prototypical. There is a photo of me in a photo. Donald Trump to people. You think. And you're like now. I'm ready to stop so. He's a Germaphobe. Bennett doesn't make sense really for you to be one. It certainly called for examination and I did decide that it was a little over loaded. There was also this interesting. Sort of a stereotype of the neurotic. The handwashing GERMOPHOBIC. Ju the Larry David Howie Mandel and I just didn't feel like I wanted to contribute to that stereotype. I I kind of built it for a while and my books so I had definitely written about it and you mentioned my book about the Bible. I tried to follow the Bible as literally as possible so that was actually very helpful with Germaphobe. Because you're not allowed to touch women when they're menstruating so I would beg off the handshake and interestingly. This one is not practiced as much. But you're not supposed to touch men for a day after their emission of seed so men would offer their hand and I would say I can't in case you have Jackie located in the last day. I don't want to set a set an easy thing to say to strangers. I mean that's very strange. I was hanging with a lot of new fathers at the time who were not doing. A lot of sheet emission. I guess so. They would try to argue and I'd be like let's just be safe. I have a newborn. What do you think's going on exactly? It's funny to think about the obsessions that fuels some of your projects. Right like finding every single person who was involved in making your cup of coffee following every single rule and dictate of the Bible. Doing every single thing you can to get healthy. I'm not surprised. You also have those sort of obsessive. Tendencies like Germaphobe. Ah Yes I do think I have that. Ocd and I guess excessiveness if channel properly can lead to good. I hope at least think of like Michelangelo Painting the ceiling. That's an obsessive crazy thing to do. That could be your next project. I like paint my own ceiling or painted wrote up Shalom here in New York. That'd be great. What's your latest project? What are you working on now? I am working on a book on puzzles of all kinds. Crossword Puzzles. Jigsaw Puzzles. 'cause I guess it started about four years ago. I was the answer to one down in the New York Times Crossword puzzle. You made it well. That's what I thought I've like this is the nerds dream and then a friend of mine pointed out. It was the Saturday puzzle. It's if you know is the hardest puzzle. All the are totally obscure so his point. This is actually an insult. Like no one knows who you are. And so then I was all sad and I told that story on a podcast and one of the crossword creators was listening and save me by putting me in a Tuesday puzzle which I don't belong. I'm not nearly famous enough for Tuesday puddle. That's so funny. I always imagined that being like the pinnacle of fame. I know for me. It was until my friend was like you know so spurned. You went on to take this project that was it and I do love puzzles. And now they're having like a crazy moment because everyone has got nothing else to do. People are talking about Jigsaw Puzzles. Which I when we were allowed to travel. I went to Spain with my family and Lee represented the United States of America in the International Jigsaw Puzzle Championship in September. What does that entail filling out a form and paying twenty euros? 'cause no one else signed up but there were forty other countries hundreds of other people and you have to sit there for eight hours and two four big puzzles with your team and we came in second to last. Your family was your team. Yes we were thinking. Oh my God yeah see now. You guys are extreme. Puzzle is what does that mean for right now. Are you guys over puzzles or you so good at them? Is it stressful because you remember the championships? We're terrible? We we have the passion just not the skill but yeah I actually recommend. We've been doing these puzzles. That are these wood-carved puzzles that are kind of absurdly expensive. Like one hundred dollars for a puzzle but they are so hard and they take so much time that on a per hour basis. You're actually it's not that bad amortize advertises. They are called Liberty Puzzles. If you WANNA check him out there. Beautiful they've got. The shapes of the pieces are often like fish or people or animals. And it's quite lovely and witty. I start laughing puzzles. This is really exciting. You really seem to be like on the moment. With a lot of your. I mean part of this. I'm trying to do a little Malcolm. Glad well spin and say that puzzles do help us think better and make us better people and if we see the world's problems his puzzles like if you hear like the Middle East crisis you just want to curl up in a ball but if you hear the Middle East is a puzzle. Let's try to solve it. The piece puzzle piece puzzle little more optimism and I believe it. I think it's true and there is. Some evidence is true. Show seeing the world as a puzzle has made my life better. How many pieces would you say? The Middle East puzzle is not a five hundred thousand. And can jared Kushner solve it. Do we know how good he is at Puzzles? I think he's as good at this puzzle as I was at the international dig. Life is like a jigsaw puzzle but the shapes of the pieces are always changing. Oh yes very deep. But it is a very complicated puzzle. You'll never get a perfect solution life but you can get five somewhat workable solutions and trying to figure out which of those is best. I think that's a better way to go. Then just saying there is no solution. I really like that. I also feel like now. Were really all realizing how interconnected we are both as disease spreads and as we sort of learn how we can put a halt to it and help each other. So it's like we are all sort of pieces of a puzzle together. I like that. We're interlocking. Yeah I'm like my behavior affects someone else in a lot of ways and I don't know that we necessarily thought like that before that was the whole idea of the coffee book is that it takes a thousand people to make a cup of coffee because you gotTa have the truck drivers and the guy who made the road. You can't drive the truck to bring me the beans if he doesn't have a road and the people who painted the yellow lines in the middle of the road so it was all that introduction. I did another one that I came on your wonderful show to talk about where I was helping to build the world family tree to show how everyone on earth you know. We're all cousins. And if you're an African. Ozzy do here like crazy. Close cousins yeah. That's one of my favorite part. You're in the newest Jewish Encyclopedia. 'cause you and your brother in law did this. Great Chart. That says are all Ashkenazi. Jews related and it showed how not just lauren. Bacall being Shimon Peres a second cousin which is like the best bit of Jewish geography. But actually how like Karl? Marx is related to Josh Beckett. Bore via ten links right exactly Karl Marx Groucho Marx. And if you talk to geneticists some say the average Ashkenazi Jew Isabel fifth cousins. Some say it's seventh but it is pretty close so I did the DNA test and my wife did it. And Yeah we're probably about six or seven cousins which I actually was okay with. I feel it's like you know that'll add some spice to the relationship with a she was not into it so we I know. I'm probably related to my husband. Ben Cohen which is something. I just don't really have the bandwidth to think about right now. But what you're making me realize is I'm probably related to mark unle- l like beyond just being podcast hosts I can guarantee you are and if you want I can try to figure out how can I give you some Corentin homework and you figure that out. That is a great thing to do. It's a nice puzzle for you to piece together. This'll be a good thing to do today. I would love h e Jacobs. Thank you for lunch. This was really a treat your latest books. Everything is on. Aj JACOBS DOT COM right. Sure absolutely and thank you. Thank you for having me. And keeping me entertained in these non entertaining timezone. Apetite whatever what are you say after meals benching? This is an edited version of our conversation. You can head to our facebook group in here and see the full unedited conversations posted there thanks to Aj Jacobs picking up the TAB okay. I'm not someone who sends around funny memes or jokes or you know emails from Uncle Myron to a big list. But I did send this around. I WanNa give you guys. Listen for those of you. Who might miss the sound of hearing Torah read and you WanNa hear just just those rhythms just those up and down cadences of Torah trope. There was this guy on twitter. Who Lane or or read in the Torah Melody. The entire text of Goodnight Moon the Children's book classic so We're GONNA play it for you at just. Just just check this out a man in the Green Room. There was a telephone in a red balloon and the picture of the cavs over the moon and there were three little bears sitting on chairs and too little kittens in a pair of mittens and a little toy house any announcing a coma Nebraska. Both of the Mahjong acquired a lady who was whispering hodge tonight row. Good night move good night. Cash cow jumping over the moon. Goodnight la in the Red Bello tonight. Bear IS GONNA chairs can get into bitten. Can I clocks? Tonight's ask night little housing and Die Mask nightclub and good night. Brush nobody goodnight. Mush is the Old Lady Whispering. Us can night stars air. Goodnight Noah always is everywhere that came from the twitter account vodka. Neem it's at Fahd Hubbard keenum on twitter and mad major props for putting a smile on my face and I actually would like to announce a contest any of you who is good at reading toward trope. Find a different children's book and Lane it in a voice mail to us if you can do that. Maybe it's make way for ducklings maybe hits I find something calls nine one four five seven zero four eight six nine and if it's really cool we will play it on the air. Pj crew. I WanNa make something clear. I don't for a second thing that just because we're all stuck at home a bit more that we have infinite time in fact there are ways in which were busier than ever. Some of US are forced to learn new software and some of US are wondering about how to keep the kids happy insane but a lot of us do have a little more time. That's been freed up because other stuff just isn't happening. And that makes it a really good time to check out the great courses plus. Let's go learn something and if you WANNA learn something. The great courses plus is such an interesting accessible fun way to do it. It has thousands of lectures from the world's best professors and experts just a great way to stay informed and engaged. Look to options. I want to give you one. You can use the great courses plus to check up on our current world situation with reliable fact-based courses you could take an introduction to infectious diseases and learn about viruses and vaccines or fighting misinformation digital media literacy. But here's another option. You could take just crazy for fun right like the one that I really love was the one on mathematics and magic and how mathematical principles help you understand how to be a better magician? Start Your free month today. I want you to go to the great courses plus dot com slash unorthodox. That's the great courses plus dot com slash unorthodox. Here's a free month unlimited access to their entire library. You're GONNA learn something cool and fabulous intriguing and you're gonNA tell your spouse or kids. Oh my God check this out. And it's just GONNA be bonkers. The great courses plus dot com slash unorthodox for your free month of a world of learning. And now some pod business. We have a lot of themed episodes coming up and we'd love to hear your thoughts and your voices. Do you have a story? You'd like to share about conversion or converting and specifically. What books or movies inspired you or helped you along the way and in July we have our Jews around the world episode We used to do Jews across America. We have expanded that to be Jews round the world. So is there a lesser known? Jewish community that. You're part of or that you know of and that you'd like to share with us. He sent an email about any of these topics too. Unorthodox A tablet MAG DOT COM or. Send us a voicemail by calling nine one four five seven zero four eight six nine or recorded voice memo on your phone and email it to unorthodox tablet MAG DOT COM. That was actually pretty easy. All your phones have a voice memo APP and you could just easily record that and send that to us. We have a new show coming out. It's hosted by me and Leo and it's called Hebrew school that's right. It's a kids game. Show featuring real kids answering questions about all things. Jewish there are songs games quizzes and so much more out for Hebrew school coming soon from talent nagazine from and to the mailbox. Here's a good one short and sweet and to the point Amy Robinson Cats Irvine California writes. Yesterday I heard you guys were friends. Yourselves as Jew casters. Did you know that someone has designed to do Castro Guitar? My friend Josh Friedman. You should look them up. Well I did and it is attributed to him that I have rejoined facebook and my Avatar in the facebook. Group is Mark Ju- caster you'll Berkowitz writes to us from Illinois. Says your discussion of Moore and Kozara touched nerve. As my wife has always argued that horseradish is a sharp not bitter Bo. I love horseradish so much. I don't even know what to do with this. Is there is there a feud going on in the theater is bad? Sharp is sharp as strong as just want to say you feel. That's the kind of question he settled before you get married you have. We gotten to that question. Dafa madly al the start versus bidder. Nobody today was all about eggs. So we're slowly making our way. Here's a letter from Olivia in Sweden. She writes dear mark. Stephanie and Lee L. I'm a junior part time. Physics teacher from Sweden. Who started listening to podcasts in chronological order in August? So I've just caught up with you now with this last episode. I WANNA say a big. Thank you to each of you and ask for a bit of Advice Stephanie. You're my favourite because Duh and it's the best discussions when you disagree with Mark and Leo. Thank you mark your cooling thoughtful even though you're a middle aged man and a nice reminder when I at times lose faith in your demographic thank you and Lee l the biggest thing he was to you. I disagree vehemently with many things. You say but I can't deny that you have heart and so I am constantly reminded that that's the case for many others that hold. I find difficult to reconcile with okay. That's the thank yous now for the advice. I'm writing this after a long day of which I spent my lunch break. Eradicating Swastika and my primary classroom left a lump of dread. That's been following me around and I really WanNa do something. The only thing I can think of is to run this thing as far as I can. I'm aiming for a police report but we'll see what I can accomplish. The thing is I was already doing that anyways and doesn't feel like enough at visit a synagogue but there is no Jewish community anywhere in my county. The county has had enough people for MINION SINCE. Nineteen ninety-one and the synagogue. My City closed in nineteen thirty eight so I am at a loss. When I had a radical swastika I did squash the urge to replace it with a since. I'm a teacher and can't vandalize things. I thought of saying something but it's not Jewish not yet. At least it didn't feel right to say a prayer. Is there a poem or something can say something in Hebrew? Maybe or is that just silly. What should I do kind regards? Olivia while guys. What do you think maybe talk to your class about it? Is that crazy? That's all I can think of. I also think it might be the case where she might have to educate them a little bit right if there's no Jewish community there. It's very possible that this isn't a real symbol to them right. This is something that they've heard of in history class or something like that. You know in America when this happens you know. We sort of get the sense of like yes. This is sort of practice vandalism. But there's something deeper than it's possible that they don't fully understand I don't mean to give them the benefit of the doubt when I traveled to Japan about twenty years ago. When you walk through though like Harajuku neighborhood. With all the fashionable teenage girls were wearing various. Nazi Paraphernalia Regalia including swastikas and I was reassured. They have no idea what that means like. Their education is not telling him about fascism and the don't understand the Nazi era accurately. And they just don't know it's just jewelry to them so entirely possible. They're just trying to look like Prince. Harry Plus Live. You look in your tranquil or formerly tranquil country. Antisemitism has rose fifty three percent since two thousand sixteen and are now according to reports at an all time high and so as an educator until League rousseff mark you have an opportunity But I think it goes bigger than that. It's also as a citizen right. You should be asking yourself what's going on in this country that makes Jew hatred casual or otherwise acceptable and and even fashionable and that is a kind of a tough and long reckoning that may lead you down path said you didn't think you would walk down political personal theological but you know you have no choice but to keep on marching marching like Nazi merchant. Regular just not know Jack stabbing no sort of loping along rather than my believe. It's goosestepping not stepping. But I'll just just watching the season. Two were duck is like the kind of like. Oh Yeah Guy in the office alcoholic bovi Vault Duck not to be confused with duckie from pretty in pink and they live your courage. Leo You WanNa read the next one dear Mark Stephane Leo. I'd like to weigh in on the question of how to make a Jewish home generally and more specifically respond to the issue of the non-jewish fiancee. Who wrote in a few weeks ago? She explained that her Jewish husband to be was insisting that they have a quote unquote Jewish home but he seemingly had no idea what that meant. My husband and I are both Jews by choice. Who grew up in Christian households? So I think I may be able to offer some valuable perspective. I must be blunt. The letter writers fiance is a bad Jew and a bad man an essence. He's attempting to remove his future wife from her own culture while not providing any of his in return. This is contemptible. He needs to get off his nominally. Jewish ass the figure out what is so dang important to him that he is willing to remove the woman he loves from almost every ritual comfort and family occasion of her life up till now and so on important that he's willing to abdicate responsibility for creating it. Why is he blithely handing off this entire process to someone who knows nothing about it? Signed Tila Jacobs. Can I just say Amen Hallelujah? Sister praise the Lord. O for Commandeer honor. That's known as the converts smackdown like somebody who has intentionally crafted a Jewish life for herself and her family steps up to the Mike and Drops it all over your ass conference center. I think it's a Jewish stepped onto someone who actually convert or not who thinks about these things seriously and cares about them. Looks at another person. Says Look Man. You can't be half in half out. Make up your Dang minds. So here's what I think. Look I don't love this idea that now we're sort of like crapping all over her fiance but I don't think it's uncommon right. You just know that it's important. We saw this at the beginning right. You know. It's important that your spouse your kids be Jewish right so then you you need your partner to convert and you know our beloved original letter writer original post or you know it. Sounds like she's up to those conversations and they'll figure it out together. I'm actually pretty optimistic right like this is a good starting point but I also think that a lot of Jews who were born Jewish also don't have these conversations and you marry someone else's Jewish. I've talked about this all the time. Right you're just like oh we need a rabbi demetrios. I guess they should be reformed. You know what I mean. There's there's not necessarily a lot of these thoughtful conversations that I think should be happening in in in every single newly wed home necessarily. What do you think J. Crew? You can call us at nine one four five seven. Oh four eight six nine or write to us about this or any other concerns you might have. We've got we've got all the time in the world and lots of advice So write to us. At UNORTHODOX AT TABAH DOT com about two weeks ago. I caught up on the phone with my buddy. Eric Ackland. Who owns amazing books and records in Pittsburgh? He was on last year's conversion episode where he talked about having moved from being a fairly secular due to being much more religious Jew and we talked a lot about that but what I wanted to talk to him about was how is a small business person. Making it in these times when you know foot traffic and you have to close your storefront and he actually closed down pretty early before the orders and he's been operating purely online and he had to let go of some of his employees and was really breaking the candor with which he talked about the tough decisions that you have to make when your cash flow just stops was very moving to me and as somebody who's never had to make payroll or never had to worry about the livelihoods of other people. I confess it was pretty eye opening so I was excited to connect with him. I'm glad that he's he's still in business. And I was glad to have this conversation. Have a listen to Eric. Acklins good to talk again. How are you thank God? I'm doing all right. I'm rocking world. Tell me what's happened with amazing books and records in Pittsburgh so until about two weeks ago we were having our best year ever sales were up. Forty percents over last year. Which was my best year up until this year? The Star two weeks ago sales were down twenty percents and then to Sunday mornings ago. I made the decision not to open that day. It was really painful tough decision to make but I made the decision and I felt it was the right thing to do for my employees and for the city in the country for everyone. Then my immediate focus became. How do I raise my online sales? Normally my online sales are twenty to twenty five percent and most of my total sales and that became my immediate focus. Give me a sense of the economics of a small bookstore. I mean what do you buy books for what you sell them for? What are the profit margins? I don't mean to Pry but I'm GONNA pry shouldn't on. I'm an open. Book has two cases the margins on any particular item are pretty extraordinary. We pay probably an average of a quarter. A book obviously still pay two three four five ten twenty dollars for and there's book slows the pace five ten cents for and there's books that we won't buy it all and we sell the average books that we buy for about ten dollars so it's a huge markup per book. The problem and the challenge is in that we don't feel that many books and so even though we have great margins have very low volume and yet because of those incredible margins were able to make it work. So what's a typical monthly? Take for you. In gross sales between online and in store we do between twelve and fifteen thousand dollars in sales. Out of what you have to pay your rent onto stores your own salary your own healthcare whatever you have for your wife and you and five children and two part time employees. Hd One fulltime employee and a couple of part timers and of course there's all sorts of expenses. There's advertising we have insurance. We have unemployment insurance and we have various catastrophic insurance. I've taxes and account fees and there's no way I could do the accounting by myself and ultimately what it comes down to is most years netted between ten and twenty percent of ourselves. Our best year was last year when we met her. Close to thirty five thousand dollars. Is that after you pay yourself or before. The total that I made myself last year was twenty. But because I'm so that's corporation. Some of the the income passes through. I don't understand the magic mechanism. That's how that works. But ultimately it ended up close to thirty five thousand dollars that we declare his personal income. All very came from the store. This is for your family of Seven. One fulltime employee. I mean this is every year man every month. This is not a an upper middle class. Living that you've chosen for yourself and you know it's not exactly what I chose but it is. It is what we're doing and in fact we have made worth. We open seven years ago April third when he's thirteen and I should say I mean as you know. I stopped into your store all the time almost every time in Pittsburgh I try to stop in and what. It's paid me in terms of my own sanity. Stopping in in between interviewing people in Squirrel Hill has been worth an extraordinary amount to me. Love seeing you. Don't what did this month? Sales normally twelve to fifteen thousand on a given month. What are you looking at for March or April for March in the first week plus of March? We're forty percent over the previous year. If year continued as normal that forty percent would have been an extra thirty thousand dollars of profit. It would have been a fantastic year two weeks ago. Our sales dropped twenty percent so at the halfway mark for the month we were standing at about five thousand or so of our sales in store and about two thousand online. We'll probably end of the month at about nine to ten thousand dollars in sales. Although thank God my online blitz has started to pay off. And we've done an extra thousand dollars in online sales. I mean if you had to guess given now that you're stores are both shuddered. Would you expect for April while I'd like to say I could do that? Full twelve thousand dollars back and that is my goal and marketing. The hell out of it but short of that happening I think a more plausible target is seven thousand in sales. When I closed two Sundays ago I actually retained all my staff. I cut their hours and half so they did not want to lay them off midwest week it was like last Thursday. I actually check my bank account than we were. We were down below five hundred dollars between my business account in my personal account and I realized Oh no I've got to cut them and so I did and it was one of the harder things I've ever had to do but I just kind of one. Thank God I have a whole bunch of friends who have been furloughed or laid off. Who have wished to come in and give a hand here there since then people now volunteering to help you package the online books or selling few sporadically. Thank God. I'm very touched. Feel very grateful for that and did you tell me that one of the menu laid off actually came into work the next day anyway. Yeah he's not just an employee he's the friend and he came in to help. Justice is own free will which was down. I would've never asked. Because what is this like for you? Psychologically having your own livelihood to worry about having other people's livelihood story about so it's you know it's interesting. It's been a very challenging few years in that regard I mean seven years since I started the business but I was a longtime Ne'er do well and managed to get married. How long ago? Twenty thirteen six and a half years ago at age forty one and I opened a bookstore that year. I acquired three step kids and in the subsequent years we've opened four stores two of which is closed and we've added two kids to cook and I've been the full support for the whole Thracian of those seven years and I've had lots and lots of employees I'd had some amazing employees in the current crew. I have now is my best hands down. Just not a single weak spot on the crew. This is the first time I had to everyone else. And yet it's a heavy responsibility on their all eligible for unemployment. And I did that knowing that. So yeah it's a heavy responsibility. I feel a lot of weight on my shoulders. How does Judaism help you or function for you in a time of both worldwide medical crisis but also your own business crisis? What is Judaism doing for you if anything actually doing a lot? There's two terms that become and the Mona bit phone means trust in God misleading and a Muna means faith in God or maybe even switching them up there on US basic concept. Is that everything that happens? No matter how awful matter health traumatic and painful. He's actually do it. And it's from God and we have to look for the skift inside teams. In many instances very non rational belief but I've found it very crucial for handling stress very quickly. You're running some deals if people want to get some great books and keep your store. Afloat today should go to amazing books and records Dot Com and then you have a website that they can click on and tell us very quickly about the deals that you're offering sure so we are as you said amazing books and records Dot Com. We have started a a really sensational deal. Pervy twenty dollars you spend. You'll get either at three trade paperbacks. Those are the larger sized paperbacks before mass market paperbacks smaller paperback two hardcovers or four kids books at another seven dollars on for taxes and shipping. And we'll get them to you as soon as we can. We are a little backed up. It's not going to be the next day shipping type thing and just just for reference points are normal price for a trade paperback large pit. Backs is ten dollars new. They charge seventeen dollars right now. We sell them pretend to getting three of them for twenty or sixty six a book no connotations but just sixty six book and you get three books for twenty bucks preferred to set you know. Get a great deal and we have a APP or sites a donor box that allows you to send us a message with list of authors or titles for subjects that you're really interested in we'll try our best to match you will be people's own sort of book. Valette to put it in Downton Abbey terms. You'll be there valet. That's right there little book servants Book Butler. You'll be the book Butler is what you will. That's it we are the book. Butler buttle books for them awesome so Eric. Your at amazing books and records dot com spell out the and my favorite used bookstore in western Pennsylvania. Actually one of my favorites in the world. Stay healthy and sane. My brother glad you to mark dwell. Your family do well. You're still hey gang you want to go online to amazing books and records dot com spell out the end using books and records dot com. Why not sign up for this special deal at Eric's running and he'll send you some great books and you will help this fabulous businessman in Squirrel Hill. Stay in business So there are many reasons. I completely envy our next guest first of all. His facial hair has mustache. Game is the strongest obscene. And I'm someone who knows some facial here. He's a person who like me. Jumps deeply into all kinds of bizarre antiquated hobbies like curling and birding and he is also the good friend and poker buddy of one Mark James Allen rear the third Oppenheimer Straight out of new haven inspiring us with great com. Here's anti boo friends. In our never ending quest to find a gentile of the week you know that we are so often thwarted that we pull people in You Know Dolores mcgillicuddy you know Throckmorton delasalle. Thinking that somebody's a French Irish Huguenot purebred gentile and then it turns out that their mother's mother was Jewish and for some reason. They grew up lighting candles on Friday nights and they never talked about why this happens to his time and again so in our quest to find someone who is truly a gentile. Sometimes we just have to turn to our poker game. My monthly poker game has let's see a Holland's half a Jew. Higby is married to half a Jew. I mean there's actually a lot of Ju- There I'm married to married to half a Jew but you are yourself a gentile and I thought it'd be great to have you on not only because you were gentile. But also because you're an interesting fellow and you have weird synergies with Lia L. in your birding and general cereal obsession interest in languages et Cetera. I'll take that as a compliment as you should. And I thought we'd have an interesting conversation with you. I feel about your religion because you are. I think our first quaker guest. If I'm not mistaken. Yeah that's probably likely and also because you're someone who is always hunting for meaning in interesting places that I think. A lot of our listeners will resonate with so a welcome. Andy Boone. Thank you member of the Society of friends. Correct as the quakers call themselves. Yes burder and most recently a curler but the first thing I wanted to ask you is tell me a little bit about. I know you're not super active in the friends meeting anymore. But can you tell me a little bit about your relationship with Quaker Ism? My mother is quaker and her family going back literally. Hundreds of years is quaker so we are not come to this lately type of quakers who converted in the Vietnam War or something along those lines or as you guys. Call Them. Draft-dodging late arrivals. Yeah right you're saying you're not reform quaker your Orthodox quaker exactly. Yeah on my mother's side going back. Many many generations Philadelphia colonial time types of quakers. You know I grew up with this as something you know. The story went that. Oh my mother was the seventh generation of her family to go to this particular boarding school outside of Philadelphia quaker boarding school. And I just you know you accept these types of facts when you're growing up as a child and a cousin was the eighth generation of this as an adult. I thought this is kind of peculiar right. But no it's true because the eighth generation back was the founder and the school was founded twenty five miles outside of Philadelphia because it was a one days horse ride from Philadelphia for the quakers and my father is Catholic and so they made the deal that my brothers and I would be raised Catholic and so I was raised Catholic but as an adult quaker ism resonated more with me. I was active with the quaker meeting. Here in new haven. I haven't been as much lately. Can you tell us about the meeting? I've always been fascinated by this notion of silence. It seems in fathomable to me no Jew could ever accomplish this. Tell us about a meeting a quaker meeting for those who have never attended. One is a silent meditation. Though it is interrupted by moments when quaker will feel moved to speak and sometimes we may feel that those people should be moved less to speak. But you sit generally in a like a square or rectangle and you sit in silence and you listen for God to speak to you then. If God has spoken to you theoretically you may rise to tell the rest of the meeting what you've heard. It is a serene experience to sit quietly with other people. It's not something that happens commonly in culture today but maybe it should be and every synagogue you would have. These are types of people. You have the person who always like like sued. Grab you and tell you about their. Soroush trouble you have. The person is like they're only three times yearly. Are there archetypes in the quaker meetings? Like you rock. Oh that's the guy who's never speaks. That's a guy who speaks too much. Oh yeah absolutely. How does that work there? Are The hippies right. There are the old chestnuts the X. Jews the Jews I. That's probably half of the quaker meeting. Really Oh yeah I mean so first. Through third grade. I went to a quaker school. And that was my first introduction to Jewish folks and if the teachers you know this is the joke. Right is half. The teachers were Jewish. Grandmother taught at one of the friends schools in Philadelphia back during the depression. I don't know if it was Abington or there's a whole bunch in greater philly right. Yeah and the joke. I don't remember her chest doesn't sound like it was. Her job is one of her friends. Who taught there whether it was that quaker schools are where PISCOPO aliens teach juice? Yeah that's right or maybe it was vice versa. That like there's no actual quakers left. There's like a Piscopo Jews. Doing this dance of quaker ISM. Yeah that's exactly right. That's that's still true today so andy. You've rehabilitated quaker. Ism For me because as I think we've talked about my only experience with it before that was one summer this camp in Vermont. It truly a truly sell place where basically my takeaway was like taking eight year old boys and telling them to sit quietly for an hour before they got to eat breakfast in the morning to introduce a spiritual path and it was probably fifteen minutes. It probably wasn't an hour seemed like three hours. It seemed like five to eight. Am but you're right. He was right twelve minutes but one of the interesting things about you is that you are so open to different pads and different traditions and I always say this is so much opposition to me. I'm such a dilettante. I never give anything a chance. You're someone who's been seriously engaged with quaker ism but also with like a bunch of other interesting things you know you're a burder a triathlete a curler and Mason. Yes how did that happen like like I? Just I guess I want you to explain for me sort of if there's a kind of coherence seekers personality there. Have you thought about this or is it just that I make fun of you for all these things while you do make fun of me for all these things but in some reflection around this? I think that what is cohesive about. It is that I personally am someone who likes to dive deep. All of you are deep divers at least on this subject of Judaism. Right you make fun of the Jew ish element right but you are deep divers on Judaism and I like that about so for myself when I get into something like to go into it so to take one of those topics which I'm going to go with birding on this one is that you know we went on a family trip a safari and I had zero interest in birding before I mean. I had negative interest and burning. My parents knew all about birds. My grandparents knew the quakers new all about birds and I had zero interest and we were on the safari and guide. Says Hey have a look at that and okay and I'm looking through my binoculars. This is like three days in. We've been looking at birds along the way and I've been no interest right and we're looking and it's this big Hawk thing to gray and it's got a special kind of claw that'll bend backwards and can raid into the cliff that it's kind of sitting on to get in there and get lizards and other eggs and things like that. It's called a gym no gene African Harrier Hawk and I was like that was pretty cool right and the guide says you like birds and I was like that was cool and we drive a little minute and he says have a look at that and I look over. And it's this thing called a helmeted Guinea fowl and it's unbelievable looking bird and it turned into this game all right so my oldest son and I started checking off every Burgh. We could see and for me. It then just became a an exercise in. Well what can learn? I have these binoculars and I went literally less than a mile from my and that first time out I saw a great blue heron which is about a four foot tall bird and it had been in this park for Millennia. And I've been running by it while I was training for my triathlons every day so then he started realizing like this is all around me and you know what can I learn so I get a field guide and the next thing I know. I'm kind of learning the subtleties of each of these birds. As someone who also stumbled into birding how do you get your fix in these days of sheltering at home you know? It's a little tricky though. I'm not far from this park. I can go and it's not crowded though I will say this morning I was on a client call and I'm looking out the window. And there was a northern flicker on the ground which is a great bird. And you know they're still coming to my backyard. It's all around. You just have to be looking. That's kind of the lesson right is that it's always been all around us. I appreciate your commitment to things when we saw you at article. Talk in new haven. I think you bought a box of our books because you were like I gotta get them to everyone. I know so like you really really commit you go hard and I appreciate that you know. It seems like there's so much we can learn in this very moment about the two things you're talking about right. One is the silence of that quaker mentality right sort of like stopping listening taking in considering which is something that is pretty foreign first of all to those of us on the show but a lot of us in this crazy world where we're just there's so much output that we feel like we need to be part of all the time and then also this idea of being open to interests and passions and the fact that you weren't booking burning burning sort of found you. I feel like you're you're uniquely poised to to be okay right now in this climate. Give Us Advice Art Challenging Times for lots of folks with different personalities and I think to me the lesson is. We are living in powerless times. And if one approaches these days with a position of okay. I'm taking it a day at a time and I'm powerless over. What the outcome is and I can sort of. Let go of the time line and so forth. I'm a little bit more at ease. I have found a greater serenity in this time by taking that type of position. The gentile anxiety-free vibes are coming through. Strongly I really like this. There's a meditation APP that needs a narrator right now okay so given that you married. You doesn't always knew the answers to Jewish questions. Here's any of the answers. We what can we tell you? I'm a rule follower and my question is around the six hundred thirteen minutes. Vote so I know that some of these rules can't be followed anymore because the temple is no longer in existence and some of these rules relate to the temple and sacrifices and right there you have demonstrated a modern orthodox level of knowledge. Correct Okay and the ability to use Google. Yes so I know that much but my question is among the remaining rules that still exist. How does one decide which rules one's going to observe in other words like witch are prioritized? So I'll take the first step here because you mentioned something really interesting which I think is key to this. You mentioned the temple south the destruction of the temple. A bunch of rabbi. Get together and say well you know I was used to be a temple base religion. It no longer is no longer temple. What are we going to do? And they're really smart answers. We're going to put this religion a book and you would expect if that was the case they would just write a fricking book of laws. You know it's ten pages long here. The things you must do here are the things that you shouldn't do hear the things that we leave up to you however being truly wise these rabbis realize if you do that humans are going to do what humans always do which is gonna find all kinds of ways and reasons to not follow these rules. And they're gonNA say oh you know. This rule used to be relevant. It's not so relevant. We don't see why we have to do it. You know they will kind of like weasel their way out of it so instead of doing this they gave us a multi volume record called the Talmud of their disagreements and I think what they wanted us to take from it. Because you're not just to follow and obey these laws blindly or to really kind of dig deep down and understand. What is the emotional spiritual psychological historical traditional reason behind every single? One of these laws. And once you start doing this as you said the thing that you understand right away is that no one alive could obey all of these commandments. Because some commandments are only for women. Some commandments are only for people who belong to priestly classes. And so once you kind of enter it with an understanding this is not a you know pokemon type of game where you gotta catch them all and then your best Jew and enjoy of year and you go straight to heaven. It's rather a daily grappling daily negotiation between yourself and God between yourself and your family between yourself in your community of trying to figure out what makes sense and what comes out of it. I think is an immensely creative way of being in the world that for some people. It's coming up with all kinds of great technological gadgets. That do things in a way. That doesn't violate CHABAD. For example to other people it is really contemplating the meaning of certain practice or a certain Mitzvah and seeing how they do it and so I think even the most observant Jews. It is a constant renegotiation and the constant wrestling match. That makes you really understand why you're doing this and and what it needs to you. That's really beautiful Mazal Tov. I'll speak like honestly and truthfully for for I imagine a lot of people who are Jewish. Today you kind of do what makes sense for your life right. I mean that's that's being fully. Holy Realistic Kosher doesn't really make sense to you. Don't do it. I mean I think a lot of Jews yes. All that temple stuff is true but like I want to do good deeds. There's a very very surface way to interpret that and for some people that works for them. The senselessness of a lot of these commandments. To me is kind of almost precisely the point when I started putting on to fill in when I started keeping Kosher and forgoing the bacon that I so dearly truly and passionately love it made no sense to me and it still. Doesn't you know the point here isn't that I came to some intellectual understanding that? Oh I will do this because to me. And I'm quoting a philosopher with with a very complicated name here. Religious Law truly does transcend logic in these ways. Because you're doing things in ways that you totally don't understand and yet then you start feeling things. And if like Monsieur Boone. Era deep diver an seeker the meaning really manifest itself in. You. It really kind of begins to change. You emotionally spiritually even though if you ask me today and I'm like five or six years into this journey now and I still don't have an answer for why keep kosher. I think you're both saying completely true. Things Right which is that. Most American Jews most used discard the things that don't make sense for them. It's also true that I think that if they think that the point is that they should make sense for them. They're missing something. About what more observant Jews think that they're doing but I would just say that even with the Observant Jews. The logic holds which is so for example. Let's say you're trying to become not the most strict you and the robot like Unorthodox Person Living in contemporary society so my sense for example of say a modern orthodox community. We're in theory. They're locked following as many commandments. As they can that you don't need a living to standing temple for is still that like a bunch of them rise to the top. So for example if your modern Orthodox you are keeping Kosher Right. You're not eating Bacon and you're keeping. Shibat pretty well right. You're not getting a car driving around on Shabbat. Right on the other hand like there's another commandment that really Super Haredi very religious people who keep which is not wearing clothes that mix wool and linen shot nuts right I think that like some modern Orthodox people even some very you know super super strict people might borrow coat without saying. Oh my God. Is it. Shot nuts right like. There's still things that matt the cash route kosher just matters more than shot. Nez and a bunch of other things that you don't know about that are actually commandments. So I think there's always a question like well. What are the ones that? Give me a sense of membership in this community. That helped me with my identity so producer Sara. Sorry is that is that fair. I think that's actually the root of my question. What do you think this is your interview? You know as a modern Orthodox Jew living in modern society. I don't have anything that is shot in as that's mixed forbidden materials in our life. I think it comes down to some of the more rabbinic rulings so for example. I keep One hundred percent. I do not turn on lights. I do not use technology sometimes like one thing that I really feel guilt over is that I grew up in a household where you couldn't rip toilet paper because ripping is one of the things you can't go on. I rip toilet paper. My parents don't notice and I think it's a constant battle against what can you do? What's easy so I don't swim an Shibata but many many people in my family in our community too and there's a challenge there saying this is what the people are doing. This is what would make our day go by easier. I'm saying no we're we live by a different set of rules and I will say that my first appearance ever on Unorthodox was coming in with the question of why on earth do people who don't keep other laws. Circumcise their sons still having nuclear answer for that one can actually give potentially another producer. Lee Answer from the other angle producer. Josh and the I'm the opposite of Sarah I am the secular atheist to grow performance Bar Mitzvah but don't believe in anything except being Jewish and so I don't follow any of the rules but Leo and I have been going through this thing of reading through the talent to do this other podcasts and what I read from having been a hundred pages in or whatever now is that everyone expects somebody to break some of the rules like. There is an expectation in debates between the rabbis. That you see in. It's all mud that not everybody is going to follow these rules right and there was an acknowledgement of that that we do our best to try to follow whatever rules we think we should and that sometimes things bendon breaks the Indian tire teaching about it. The guys who wrote it down in a book to say we don't have it simple anymore already acknowledged that we don't all agree with the rules actually even are or how to follow them but we all do our best interpretation of that or as migrate teacher in Graduate School. Harry Stout said if you want to know what goes on in society look at what they ban look at what. They Boo an anti booed. Have we helped? That was fantastic. Thank you yeah now. We confuse them way. More next time you will give us a primer on curling. Your latest obsession. I would love to yes add. Thank you for being our gentile of my pleasure to the Mazal Tov. I want to give the first Mazal Tov to Ruth Karnicki Lick Stein. Who wrote to us that? Our kids go to Cuba Schachter Jewish day school on the South side of Tocado and the teachers and administrators have gone above and beyond parents even have some precious time to get some work on while their children are so gainfully occupied she writes. I cannot exaggerate. How impressed I am with them. Thank you and we will echo that. Thank you to the faculty at Akiba Schachter and all of the day school faculties and all of the Public School and other private school faculties out there everywhere. Doing such heroic Labor to keep children engaged in educated in these crazy times. Seventy Mazal Tov. I'M GONNA continue my streak of wishing people's MOMS happy birthday. This one goes out to Michelle her next week. And we just want to say Mazal Tov Lille. Do you have a model so a few years ago? I was thinking of putting together this tribute concert to Leonard Cohen. I realized I was way out of my element and they really needed help. And so kind of on a lark. I got an email and I emailed hal wilner. Who was the longtime sketch? Music producer for Saturday night live in a legendary music producer. Who worked with Lou Reed and Laurie Anderson and William burroughs and so many other people admire and there's really no reason on earth for someone of that calibre to ever write me back or take the time but Howard back right away and went and had dinner with me and then kind of schemed with me for a while and and really sort of became my friend and last week A day after his sixty fourth birthday we lost him to this DAB virus. And I know Saturday night live already paid him a well-deserved tribute but man Missio Lot. A BOO boo. You just unorthodox brought to you by Tablet magazine on the web at MAG DOT COM. Check out our new redesign. It's been voted best designed website in the world by us. Send US your thoughts. At UNORTHODOX AT TABLET DOT COM calls nine one four five seven zero four eight six nine. You need to wear and carry unorthodox early Chevy shopping. Yeah go to bit elway slash on Ortho shirt and find the latest in Unorthodox shirts mugs and onesies because no baby is too young to be a billboard for our podcast follow us on Instagram at Unorthodox podcast and on twitter at Unorthodox underscore pod. Join our facebook. Our show is produced by Josh Kraushaar. Friedman eater editing. Help this week from Robert Scare Muccio. Artwork is by extra worker our theme music by Gholam Online and Gholam rocks dot com. Our mailbox theme is by Steve Barton Rabbinic supervision by Rabbi Dana Benson and. Rabbi Henry Winkler the funds early Rav for their work on the Saturday night. Seder we come to you from ARGO studios which is growing very very full beard. Shalom so you just get by.

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Live from Queens: Ep. 188

Unorthodox

59:21 min | 1 year ago

Live from Queens: Ep. 188

"Dearest J. crew a few weeks back. We did a live show at one of the greatest synagogues have ever been to the most spirit filled the most hamish the warmest Hollis Hills Bayside Jewish center in Queens was absolutely the most welcoming place you can imagine they packed the room and made us feel welcome. It was the kind of welcome that we expect when we've taken three flights with two connections to get to a live show in the middle of nowhere but in fact we just hopped on the L._I._e.. And there were the the soul of Jewelry Hollis Hills Jewish center and it turned out to be one of our favorite shows ever have a listen live from the Hollis Hills Bayside Jewish center. This is unorthodox. The Universe is leading Jewish podcasts. I am Mark Oppenheimer joined us ever by my co hosts tablet deputy editor Stephanie Button ACI and tablets senior writer Liel Liebowitz. Let's go mets. We are so excited to be here. In Beautiful Queens we have two incredible podcast and guests for you. Tonight are Jew of the week as lyonnnais fought from the podcast slow-burn and the brand new podcast fiasco and our gentile of the week is Claire Malone from the fivethirtyeight politics podcast but before we get to them I just want I just want to check in with my co hosts and find out how Stephanie how how was your day. My Day was good. I feel really good because I'm like very close to Long Island right now so like my I feel like I'm like recharging ancestral before I'm really feeling feeling. How close are we to nick north okay so I grew up in great neck which is right yeah none of cheering thing for great neck I think in general in life that's the first time outside of Queens? We like. We could walk pretty. We could city bike to your no. Yes take over there. We took it on my mom and she could drive we all are you. Were you sorry I mean that's the important fact of your day. I do you want to set this up though because we have spent the last I would say seven and a half hours together so what you guys are getting tonight is just like an extra special. That's right like we've spent a lot of time to jake does as our half a week together recording but we've spent the entire day together. I picked up the kids from school. I took a nap and Josh's car on the way out here so that was my car. Actually he was driving. He was driving drove. My car. Stephanie Seventy Napkin is big happy family. We actually secretly do like each other which is really which is really but let me tell you when I when I didn't last night I was in Washington D._C.. And had to drive down to New York I left D._C.. Around probably eleven and and that meant a very long very late night drive now at some point once you're on the stretch known as I ninety five which got himself forgot long ago I look at me got hungry because it's been more than forty five minutes food and here's the thing three years ago or four years ago when I was not keeping kosher. This was a delightful okay Roy Rogers. Do you know it was to stop at a burger. King Burger. King is a very specific New Jersey turnpike type of tradition and then like you just do operas and it's great but now I'm kosher but also hungry and so what do I do and so it was like you know what I'm going to gain this. I'm going to stop at Burger King and I bet you the Burger King exactly the same without the thin cardboard like meat like substance that they put in this thing. It's just going to be the same thing so I walk. It's now to forty five in the morning in the morning between exit three and exit four. I stop at at at the Burger King and there's no one obviously see. What kind of maniac is it a Burger King and a Jersey Turnpike at two forty five in the morning were you at the Joyce kilmer? I was not as Joyce Kilmer Bids Lombardi it. It was the James Damore Cooper thank you so. I always love as a little kid. I've ever thought this. What do you have to do to get a jersey? I've ever masters is my grandparents are from Philadelphia so we used to try this. What do you do to get a New Jersey rest? Stop named after you because they're not named after people in the book or be governor and not go to prison taste so I walk in and there's a gentleman working the grill and his name is billy is a big name tag and bill looks like he's given up on life very longtime and I say I'd like I'd like a whopper police. Uh with everything except the meat and bill sort of looks at me. It's like a you insane something wrong with you. What kind of game are you trying to play to pay less like? Is this some kind of con- game. You're GonNa stab me and so I feel I owe explanation because it's two forty five hundred to only people on Earth at that point right now. It's like no I'm kosher. I love everything about this Burger. I can't eat the meat and it was like Oh. It's a religious thing he goes over to the Burger Station nation and with care I had never seen before puts the two buns and then triple the lettuce triple the onion triple the tomato would like such gentle care and then sort of hands me the burger like it was the Trafficcarma here you go now. You may continue your Seder. It was amazing. It's the Best Burger I ever had. What does it taste link like exactly like a walker but he's like a grilled cheese yes? Did you say you said a broker for Ms. What did you know Mozi Right? It was more a shift he on that like maybe a real kosher half though right people must do that all the Times Kosher style good enough for me mark. I have nothing to top that I was up late last night. I was reading through the P._D._F.. Of Our forthcoming book the newest Jewish Encyclopedia out this fall out this fall. We thought it would be fun to one of the things that happens when you're when you host I the world's leading Ju- cast is that you get a lot of mail from people who have questions that they're afraid to take to their rabbis or inlaws and they they decide to take them to us so dear Markley Stephanie what is he is some good Dahlia. What what why does Barbra streisand have the weird are without the other a and it's just all of those and so we decided to write a ball friends the book his coming? We've been talking about it for a while. The Jewish Jewish Encyclopedia everything you wanted to know about Judaism from Abraham Zave ours. It's coming to bookstores near you October first. We're going to be traveling the country talking about it but in the meantime you can pre-order it. You can go the Amazon you can go to your favorite independent bookseller. You can also talk to your local J._C.. Synagogue or university about hosting us. What's in this book? I just WanNa give you a sense randomly scanned through our entries so the last page of the Geez has the grateful dead the Green Green Line and good shops all on it. The first page of the ages has DASA Tigana Agata Hogar Hair Hamish and Holocau so you can see it. Just it goes all over the map I mean I'm still the ages Hamad Tashin Adam sandlers Hanukkah Song Nokia Hoskokawa and everything it's pop culture. It's Jewish learning. It's tour. It's it's celebrity culture. It's food. We have a guide to Holocaust movies. We talk about the Halifa we talk about Irving. How we talk about humanistic Judaism? We talked about the pianist Vladimir Horowitz. Are we giving you a sense of this book that Stephanie and I wrote you WanNa go get this book. Is Your one stop manual for Jewish culture learning history all in one place the newest Jewish Encyclopedia go get yourself with the Nasdaq is the host of the brand new podcast fiasco which tells the story of the two thousand election. He was previously a journalist for slate and the Boston Globe welcome Leeann. Can you get started. What is a podcast? I don't think this crowd would've podcast is you who is never listened to a podcast before do it for them for four years as and stuff. It's just a radio show you can download or stream. They take several different forms. Sometimes they're talk shows sometimes as in my case they're more like narrative documentaries where you hear interviews with people combined aligned with narration from host and archival footage that we've harvested from old newsreels and so they're quite popular right here these days people seem to be listening to them more intensely than they read articles. which is what I used to do is write articles pickles so your new show fiasco breaks down the drama the very drawn out drama of the two thousand election and the first episode starts with the story of Elian Gonzalez which is months months earlier? Why did you choose to start the story there so with the show we made before this slow-burn one we sort of found this? I don't want to say formula but recipe. Let's say to making familiar events feel new and that sort of involved finding novel connections between causes and Effects Ah we tried to with with first slogan that we made which is about the Watergate scandal. We tried to find ways sort of tell the story in a sequence that would be people find surprising you know they think they know what happened. It would during Watergate because of all the president's men <hes> perhaps if we rearrange the story in a creative way and talk to people who have not been canonized in the same way we can make it feel new. Was that your idea or is that a producers idea like let's give you were you like. Let's look at it through Martha Mitchell. Yeah well I mean the funny thing is so the first episode of slow-burn was about this woman Martha Mitchell who was married to John Mitchell who is at the time running Nixon's reelection campaign prior to that he was the attorney general back in Nineteen seventy-two. Martha Mitchell was knows famous person ever like there's Gallup poll that showed that she was the she was known people knew her name like seventy two percent of the American population. I might have made that up the number because of Nineteen seventy-two but it was very very high but I had never heard of her you know and and I was sort of astonished to read her story and a bunch of the books that I picked up to sort of start researching and so when we put out the show you know a lot of people who were roughly my age like I had never heard of either but slightly older people who rely back then were like like why are you treating this like at some discovery and I had to admit like it's a little bit like cheating if you if you read any of the book she's in there but people who haven't had the books it feels like a revelation so yeah I guess it was like my idea to lead with Arthur Mitchell but at the same time like she was a perfectly known quantity before I discovered her. It seems like we're really in year. Five or six of the podcast explosion right I mean before cereal. There were podcasts for a dozen years before that but they were largely radio shows that got package into podcast right so the most popular podcast were this American Life Radio lab which which began on the radio and basically went with the N._p._R.. Clock which was they had to sort of be at fifty three minutes or whatever that is and we're in a period of again. Maybe half a decade where people are doing straight to podcast original stuff. If it means you can swear on them. It means they can be whatever length and a few of the biggest ones initially seemed to be true crime or real time examinations of crimes. You're doing history stuff in a way that that people are really enjoying and finding accessible was that was that something something you thought about like we're ready for cool history podcasts. No I can't claim credit for that. I think the idea of for slow-burn she's in one was just motivated by the fact that people were just referencing Watergate all the time on the news and whenever there's something that's being I use the shorthand. There's a temptation to sort of look behind the shorthand and see what the real story was because things like you know events like Watergate that are so big and so famous especially when they've been captured in some you know in in things like all the president's men which is such a dominant sort of source of people's understanding of what happened it turns out that when you just when you look just a little bit deeper you find all this stuff that has been utterly forgotten and it's just not been passed down through conventional conventional wisdom in sort of collective memory speaking of the news here you are making these incredible beloved historical shows that have the privilege of kind of looking at things from the perspective of twenty thirty forty fifty years down the road but you're living in the middle of this like unbelievably tumultuous political time so two questions about that first of all do you ever kind of have the temptation of kind of like reshaping the news as you hear them every day as like a slow burn or fiasco type podcasts at and if so what today sound like twenty years from now well your voice yeah well so the thing that we tried to do with slower and under what we're trying to do with fiasco is look for these as sort of peripheral characters who again have not been canonized in the same way. That's Woodward and Bernstein have been watching the trump administration. I think there's just an embarrassment of side characters. I don't do that in both ways but there's so many players who have sort of walked onstage and then walked off in part because of the revolving door at the White House but one one one example I remember being acutely aware of as it was happening thing was same numbered who is like an advisor to trump during the campaigns like a friend. He's one of these guys that trump just calls on the phone to chat with. He went on T._v.. A bunch for like a week maybe two years years ago and he was wasted the whole time she said all these completely bananas things and I was very hard for me to not imagine you know twenty years like capturing this footage and saying here's this Guy Sam Bloomberg was like you've never heard of him but I wonder if you even have to go that far right. I mean twenty years from now when someone's doing a an American history textbook for A._p.. U._S. history in high school and and the trump administration is going to you know get four pages or maybe eight if he wins a second term. Will there really be more than a paragraph on Steve Bannon like maybe think of the people go into campaign managers generally if they don't ever hold a major cabinet all the they just go into obscurity yeah and I think that's sort of part of what has been fun for me to watching watching the news having made these podcasts trying to guess what will survive what will be passed down in our collective memory. What will what will seem really important in twenty years and what will seem like a merely an amusing footnote? I suppose I I suppose I would have assumed would assume that Steve Bannon is one of one of the keepers but someone like Kellyanne Conway and George Conway. That's amazing subplot where they're married to each other and he's he's just a country singer. George obviously has major country. Who is the guy who was on T._v.? A lot for like a week sixteen days the crazy guy you're the much much members real name Anthony Anthony Scaramucci so the interesting thing thinking about him because I can't remember his name but he seemed like such an important person sixteen days or however long it was and I think I think what you're showing communications also what at least at the beginning of the first season of slow-burn where you sorta said what was it like to be going day to day throughout Watergate we think of it as this crazy thing that break in happy that he was he resigned and that actually that happened over a very long period of time and so the way the travelling through time is very confusing because things feel like they're going so fast now but when we look back at this period whatever ends up happening it won't have nothing will have happened overnight. I think one reason slower and took off was that people have become trained to follow the news in this very intense way where it's all just like really obviously it's quite dark in various ways but it's also like fun and compulsively kind of we just want to know what happens next and you follow all these subplots and you WanNa know what all these different people are saying and doing. I think slow-burn showed that you can apply that same level of sort of attention to detail and kind of excavation to the past and it's like just as fun as following the news today. Do you find it. This show's fan base is divided according to sort of like partisan allegiances. I mean other people like how dare you Focus Clinton when you really should have done another season on this other Republican candidates yeah people. There's definitely so we try to we try to make sure the show doesn't like alienate people for no for no good reason like we we we can avoid saying something that's going to just like turn off someone because of their political beliefs if it's worth it if it's not if that is not like a narrative reason to do it or if you know if if you want while we want we want to say true things and sometimes if you say something true it will alienate people on one or the other other side of the political divide but I take pride I think in the fact that like some people thought our second season which was about the Clinton impeachment was unfairly critical of Clinton and other people thought it was unfairly generous to him that leads me to you now even people. I don't believe that there are people on Earth who have not listened to any of these podcasts because they're very very very very popular and rightfully south breath part of the magic and people who haven't listened could see this would be on sitting and talking right now is that your delivery is like completely sort of common even keeled. You're a guy to these fairy very passionate events in this way that doesn't get is this you all the time I mean do you watch C._N._N.. Oh that is a bad thing that happened well. I don't know that it's quite an answer your question but like I I'm wondering if people in the audience think of guavas Guy Mumbling so much. Why can't he speak up Weiqing he enunciate a little better? The reason is I've been in the studio recording and I've put all my effort into trying to sound the way I sound of the podcast and it's not really who I am or how I talk and it doesn't really come naturally I to me. I was recording episode today. Which Joe Lieberman Joe Lieberman very prominently literally can't pronounce the Guy's name Shlomo Lieberman we can we can we can we read them out like ah I ended up having to convince my brain that I was saying Joel Ebermann Somehow that was easier? Can you give us a sentence that you said today like give us the voice imitator Lieberman. The high pitched at nodal wine. Well you know I don't memorize the scripts I read them. So what's what's the line. I don't know I can't remember line. Is this because you were not born here and your resident resident alien. Is this with your wife. Taking uh-huh. Maybe the best piece of feedback I've ever received on on the PODCAST was a random facebook message that tag me from someone I don't know and it said you know this show slow-burn. It's so interesting so many like unfamiliar. Of your stories and characters I had never heard of learned so much. There's so many interesting parallels to the present and best of all the host is clearly triumphed over speech impediment. It's so it's so inspiring you can barely tell being that you were born in the yeah. Yeah you can blame it does does the fact that you're an anchor baby for your parents and does that. I know in all seriousness that have something to do with your outlook on politics. Do you have any immigrants sensibility or your parents or McCain. Adulthood was this America like look at American. The seventies we had stability in Russia was Brezhnev Brezhnev and more I mean my parents were were very much anti communist and they you know I think if anything I'm probably more conservative because of how I was raised I think I say in the podcast and the second season isn't about Clinton like I was. I was raised in a household that supported Clinton that where I was told that he was clearly the hero in the story that was being unfairly maligned by by his enemies which is I realizing consistent with the with the idea that they're conservative but especially lately I think I like certain have certain impulses that I might attribute like my mother who despite being someone who voted for Obama and Hillary Clinton culturally I think has certain allergies that can be traced back to her upbringing Soviet Union so can I say I think we should we should ask one more question but then lets you and the audience will take one from you after we ask our last question. I'd love to hear what you want to know from Leon so a lot of Jews who fled the Soviet Union didn't weren't actually raised with the particular strain of Judaism that we know here today right which is like governments about stuff like that. What were you raised with nothing? I was raised with New Year's Eve instead of any other. Do you have the tray I had the tree. Novi grow the real kind of celebration with the Novi God. Oh no what it's basically Christmas to six days year's Eve tree yeah. Do you ashamed of it. You know I was ashamed of the tree the tree in my living room and I thought by Jewish friends who live on the block will see it and they'll be confused. They don't know what they could explain the tree because I don't think everyone really knows about it. It's amazing yeah. It's the it's the same idea ideas Christmas tree where you put gifts decorate it and then you put gifts under it and it's completely it's completely secular. There's a there's a father frost instead of instead of what's his name Santa Claus and he here's a here's a daughter daughter Ivanka for us yeah she accompanies him on the on the adventure but in many ways the only difference is you get the presence of New Year's Eve not the morning after after until everyone in the Soviet Union did that no matter what religion and then all these Jews come here and they're like look at this thing and then they have to get rid of it and so I wasn't Barmitzvah until quite recently Stephanie as you know I didn't I wasn't I wasn't wasn't I felt quite alienated. From American Jews for the reason that I was just wasn't raised with any of that. We all felt quite the only American that's what it is to be an American Jews so welcome thank you I. What did I do? Remember one thing very vividly about New Year's which is we had a little figurine of Father Frost that we put under the tree and it was just beautiful beautifully made thing it wasn't quite like it wasn't a stuffed animal. It was looking more like a puppet and at some point in my life where did this come from because it looks manifestly very old and my mom told me the story about how she bought it one night when she was a teenager in Moscow the Day Day of New Year's Eve maybe the day before some person who was trying to sell things on the street for a living came past her her door and she happened to be outside and the person said you like to buy something and clearly the person was very poor mother haggled for the for the figurine and she she the person clearly was very reluctantly said okay. Look whatever it is you have. I'll take my mother has never forgiven herself for not paying the full price for the for the Father Frost Figuring Father Frost forgives her though Very Benevolent Ivanka frost become this is the most interesting thing has become a major Israeli celebration because it leads Israelis a lot of Russians already bought the tradition edition with him. It's completely secular and let's Israel we celebrate Christmas which they love because in the American movies but without any of the religious elements or this now plus. There's drinking so it's a win win win. Do not tell my kids about it. Uh We got questions from the audience right there. Tell us your state. Your name Arthur is I'm. I'm not a pod listener. I've never used it but what concerns me and interest me is your program. Program is authentic. How do we know about the other programs there autheniticity and who licensed these programs that come out because people are very easily persuaded with information they hear that they get over the computer and so on as we know today with the Russian situation influencing the electorate so would you be kind enough to tell us who license you and how do we know that I programme is authentic using his license? I mean it's a it's a great question because there are like more than half a million podcasts out there. If you go on I tunes and look at their listings there there are a lot with them and the barrier to entry is quite low. You can start a podcast in your room with a microphone. People can say whatever they want. You know I think that generally you can apply the same sort of filters that you do to any news news you consume you trust the publisher that is paying for the podcast he made and distributed. That's a good reason to trust it. If you find that the hosts and the guests interview sound credible you can apply the same sort of standards that you do to any form of media. I don't think podcasts are more or less trustworthy or prone into fabrication or distortion than than than than anything else. lyonnnais fought for example was credentialed by the Boston Globe among other places along the way podcast that is not just tricky but true yes. He's a taller younger version of the Mafi yeah. There's a lot of look alike and he's been a terrific job of the week. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me the license we have our share from the father of born in Queens are very important like he brought his care game right into my kitchen and started making all totally unfair we got next Stephanie are gentile untile of the week is clear Malone. She is a senior political writer at five thirty eight dot com where she covers the twenty twenty presidential election and appears on the weekly fivethirtyeight politics podcasts welcome Claire Okay so Claire Yes. I've been binge listening to your podcast. I mean you listen to it weekly. If I get behind okay it's a video podcast. You can download them whenever you want. I can you name. All the Democratic presidential candidates the Arthur in the back. You can trust watch this okay. Let's see if I can do it do half march with US laugh through them. Okay Joe Biden Elizabeth Elizabeth Warren Comma Harris Kirsten Gillibrand Amy Klobuchar Seth Moulton Massachusetts Cory Booker are missing from the Senate. They think you deeper judge Bedwell Rourke Tulsi Gabbard Tim l. the Tim Ryan Wayne Messim. That's just breaking up. Dame's literally would goals John Hickenlooper her. Did I say irks while while you know Eric's wall well Congressman Ryan. He's a congressman. Oh my God I'm blanking on the Governor of Montana Momentarily Steve Bullock. Oh my God fill the Blasi of how could we forget. You've been in this in this city sixty person their New York Eh. This is bad because I feel like I'm missing like major people that I just didn't like burden or any sixteen o Bennett Michael Bennett who I feel very bad is is really messing up his brother's career. His brother is the head of the New York Times editorial page streams Bennett's brother yes and he had to recuse himself from all twenty twenty coverage. Any of US know that never my mom. Did she goes all I mean. That's not fair. I feel like it's kind of a sad movie. Oh interesting so what else do question because I think they're half Jewish. I think James Benetton Jewish I was my next was to be named the Jewish candidates among them but I believe it <hes> this is too many want some help. Just give me a hint about governor. Besides bullock and Hickenlooper wasn't on climate change only oh Jay Inslee Pacific northwest. That's Nineteen Alabama last year. This is not the nicest way to start Marianne Williamson Oprah Guru what else who am I missing Castro Yang. I Miss Yang began gang Andrew. Andrew Gillum is not running. Oh whoops yet we missing anyone. Definitely I'm able micro Val yes yeah and she knows actually how to pronounce all their no yeah. There's no like you're saying Oh. I've never actually heard them set out loud. I can't do it. I guess well you've done it. which among the number of Jews apparently five Bernard Sanders? I think would identify as a secular Polish IRA flow move your whole. This is the joy of not working at a Jewish magazine. You actually don't have to know the answer to those questions. I'm missing one. I wonder if they know is it. A major one is Jewish who knows G Ansley do do it's Uber and freakshow Marion Williamson who I wanted to spend some time she's beautiful hair. Though I mean she's vote for that that standard also also beautiful. That's how they're going to decide. They're going to here so are you ever just like this is insane. I can't possibly cover all of you absolutely absolutely and I think I the luxury of being fivethirtyeight which is the website I work for is kind of more like a it's a digital magazine Digital Political magazine more than a newspaper which means we have the luxury of picking and choosing what magazine stories we want to do so you know the Washington Post and the New York Times and C._N._N.. In and all those places send out people who spend most of their two years of their lives just like following these people around and we kind of have the luxury of picking who we think is most interesting at any given moment but even then you know it's kind of do also do that. Great a bit where whenever someone declares for president you run a column that says here is so and so's road to the presidency their theory of the case. Here's what has to happen for Marianne Williamson to become president. We're all about probabilities to become President A._B._C.. Sixers of the Earth's population must perish would anyone the real question is Jim. I mean this is a New York City audience. Do any of you think the bill de Blasio should be running. Wait how many of you voted for him. Raise your hand so smattering and none of you voted for him think he should be president. Should he be mayor there saying this downstairs before the show which is that Gloria Steinem has said that she supports like four or five people but that Bill de Blasio is the one man that she supports which I thought was very interesting and sort of random but there you go Gloria Steinem sports women and build up on builds a blahsy blahsy so okay probability the cooler these people. Are you excited about. WHO's looking good? WHO's like who has a chance well? I think that if you want to be a smart consumer of the Democratic primary you should probably take a look at what we call the first tier candidates so the people who are really pulling consistently well so that would be Joe Biden Bernie Sanders Sanders Kamala Harris Elizabeth Warren people to judge and probably better go work. Those are probably the people I would say if I were a betting woman are going to be the last kind of lasting candidates. I would say those people that people to pay attention to because they've raised the most money they have the most small donors which we kind of read is a little bit of metric of I guess organic support so you feel like my wife's predicted ticket of Hickenlooper. Castro is not happening. That's really random. How did she end on? This guy's well what she said. I mean this. This wasn't so employees. He's a beer drinker deficit which she said was she was like look Western governor moderate but progressives in Colorado like him okay I mean this is the guy who has never lost an election. He became he became governor. His story is he ran a brew pub. He's got this like what people like about Biden which is like white male who relates to all sorts of people and has an alienated non whites in fact he's done even less alienating of them invite and he's like great candidate right and then he'll after a person of color or a woman as his running mate Texas is more pick operable than many states on Castro but you know I mean let's take your wife's choice seriously for a second if this were eight years if this were eight years ago and you were saying people who both have ironclad resumes who've won was Obama administration official and other was a governor for God's sake. That's that's a great resume but I do think that trump and honestly probably Obama did usher in some sort of the idea that you do need a little bit of a celebrity genocide quat and kind of capture the national attention and I think that there are a lot of other more flavor of the month white guys who talked to all kinds of people or exciting citing women. Are you know whatever it does that change your job because fivethirtyeight which is an obsession for some of us an addiction maybe named after the number of Electoral College votes there are in the Halcyon days of early in late October two thousand sixteen. We were all paying close attention and some of US feeling encouraged by those numbers that we're seeing and now we're in a very different reality what happens into fivethirtyeight newsroom in those two years. What kind of Mental Minto shifts are you guys experiencing yeah? Is there a difference sure I mean I think if anyone's seen the site you kind of know our we call it the model which is basically the sort of thing that changes day to day that aggregates. It's all the polls that says this is the chance that Donald Trump has to win the presidency and this is the chance that Hillary Clinton has to win the presidency and you might be familiar with the New York Times infamous needle right and what we were all trying to do with those things but sort of give people the probabilities abilities and what we thought about in the past couple of years is how to be more cogent and clear and transparent in both depicting probabilities so we've tried to in the midterm elections. We changed the model a little bit to try to be a little bit more for explanatory about what what what this what this model actually means come spell it out a little bit better and just in our writing particularly about the primary particularly when there's so many candidates to say listen. We're going to cover this a horse race site but at the end of the day we want to be really clear that we don't know what's happening. We were to naysayers about Donald trump during the primary kind of left some of the numbers by the wayside and maybe picked up too much of the human conventional wisdom that he he couldn't be the nominee and so we're trying to be transparent about we're looking at our past mistakes and and trying to educate people but it's certainly been I think a lot of news organizations whether or not there as vocally transparent is we are have had that same process which is just saying what can we do better to make people more trust in the numbers in the news that they see and just be better consumers of news in general you grew up in Shaker Heights Ohio did right yeah yeah yeah great the I.. N. Shaker Heights is like the platonic ideal of like America. It's a great it's a great town. I've never been there. I actually just wrote a story about Shaker Heights. Yes I wanted to talk to you about that. Because you you write about politics you don't usually right personal personal things but you sort of went back to the place garage and talked about what had happened there over the past few years. Can you tell us better yeah so I wrote a piece that was about basically a class divide in the Democratic Party for lack of a better word and I sort of chose the piece called a tale of two suburbs and it's about the suburb that I grew up in Shaker which if you guys are familiar with is pretty like affluent well educated place that was integrated by Jews largely actually were foremost in sort of racially integrating Shakur and making king add more diverse place and then on the opposite side of the river in Cleveland is a sort of blue collar eastern European Catholic working class town called Parma and they were both Democratic voting cities for as long as I was alive up until two thousand sixteen when Parma voted for trump and what I wanted to do I think we all sort of know that obvious narrative of like yeah of course Parma voted for trump and shaker stayed well educated Shaker voted for Clinton but I kind of wanted to dive into the histories and like like why do we vote the way we vote. Why did I grow up the way I grew up? You know what were the reasons because it turns out the Shaker actually had bombings of black peoples homes at one point in time this didn't make it into the peace because had to get cut for length but there was going to be a Jewish section of Shaker they were going to kind of put all the Jews in one part of the city which actually actually kind of ended up happening organically faker yes but I just sort of wanted to dive into you. Get your politics from your family. From the place you grew up and I really wanted to tell that story. We both for Shaker and for Parma and honestly for me. It was kind of a I don't think you think a lot about particularly. This suburb. You grew up in BBC grew up in New York. It's everyone's writing about Newark but who's going to write about the boring suburb. You grew up in so sticking with your childhood for moments. I'm unsure down for this one of the first I think you're the first you become tonight. One of the first sisters sister payers to appear on Unorthodox gentiles of the week very exciting because your elder sister Noreen yes was on our show and her gentle of the week question about whether it's okay and when is it okay to refer to Jewish American princesses became he running question on our show. We end up doing a special episode around me really yeah. It was important in the unorthodox history as IRA knows but there are not just to Malone's there are twenty of you know there are six of you six kids six kids and as the father of five I want to know is that why you are so saying intelligent and well adjusted leaving see my family thinks differently. What was that like it was? I mean we'll first of all as I think you probably know. It doesn't feel it only feels crazy when or like really big when other people are saying like whoa there's so many people in your family like inside of it just sort of feels. It's fun. Honestly I think having a lot of siblings kind of like my oldest sister says sisters are here to keep you in your place and she's always said that but it's it is kind of like yeah I mean I don't quite know how to verbalize it because I just think it's like a very their ecosystems their friendships their siblings that are really good friends at one point in time in life and then you make new friends with like your older siblings siblings. I I remember that happening when I kind of college and I became like actual friends with my one of my older brothers was living at home in law school when I was in late high school and that was really fun because we then we had like a different friendship so that's like a really cool thing but I do think as you guys with marine but also my other siblings are all just genuinely really smart funny cool people so my parents are pretty talented at like raising kids. I guess so with my mom once told me I know we're good at once I I asked her because people sometimes say rude things to people who have big families particularly mothers who have big families people take it on themselves to savings to you which is terrible never do it but in adulthood I had been a fact checker and I worked on the story about a family who adopted like twenty seven children and I talked to all the kids and I talked to the parents and I was thinking about a lot and so I finally as an adult asked my mom like so like what did you why did you in dad have so many kids and at first she was like thought I was asking a judgmental question and I was like no no like I know you had a conversation about it and she said well honestly your father. I decided that we were very very talented at raising children and then we should we should have them and I love that answer because it's completely true I mean it was completely vocational for them and they were you know you had to do a sport. Every season you had to play two instruments like it was very there was a malone there was a Jewish from Shaker because she was she was field hockey capital Georgetown hockey captain in high school. I wrote crew at Georgetown no but we call it a Celtic Tiger mother so we are going to ask you for your dental of the question because gentiles always can come with a question and then if there's time maybe one question from the audience says well but what can we an internationally recognized certified consortium certified by the bottom of Queens. What can we like council of sages? Can we tell you what can we answer for you so I wanted to keep with the Malone formula of is it offensive and I was sparked by this is this is actually a little bit of a political question here me out. My question is is calling someone Schick so rude and should people stop doing it and I asked this because I've heard people say like lovingly to their partner kind of jokingly but also there was a recent politics adjacent story about how Carly Kloss who is a supermodel who got married to do the yeah the Kushner the good Kushner the good Kushner off the younger Kushner there was there were some tabloid reporting that avant trump had called Carly Shikha <hes> anyway sort of there were sort of layers upon layers and it got me thinking but yes my question is is causing so much Ivanka who converted into Orthodox Judaism to marry jared then like hazing look younger younger brother's girlfriend. I think that's married now. It's our go way back when it was like you only converted to perform you schick. Here's my best back when she was six right outside. The cushy are trump goes. It's GonNa Start this one. That's an amazing question. I actually can't believe we have not been asked about the word chicks and four years of doing the show but so I think it's a very offensive word because I think it's like a nasty word about a woman that implies all sorts of things and I don't use is it. I mean when your sister came on and said. Can I jap. I was like well. Yes only in the Yes if you do this this and this but for six I'm like I have no reason to call someone that because to me it is so judgmental in a way that so rude and I think if you WANNA call yourself that right like you can do that. It's one of the one of those like inwards. I feel like I'm trying to imagine a situation which calls her selfish well. It was also on the Marvelous Mrs Mazel Right. Is that the that gets everything wrong. It's it has some some strengths that shows the worst guide to everything mid-century jewelry actual thing that was her calling asteroid who converted to marry the brother a six which is like that threat is especially offensive because it's like shit is Jewish so there's like the convert shaming saying we all. Do you have about clean up here. You know how I feel about bad words. I I rarely miss an opportunity to use them to adopt them heartily. I'm Stephanie One hundred percent in this one. It just feels like there's something really hurtful in mean-spirited like I can't conceive of a notion in which this would be used like as we spoke Stephanie Sorta gave us sodomy of the word Jap like well. Here's situation you could say something jappie person. Oh this is Jackie with with chicks. I can't imagine a situation in which would not just be a needlessly cruel JEB so I'm voting and before you back it's interesting because your sisters question was is actually was a story where someone could she say. could she describe someone. Get Yeah like he's not a word that you need to you can only use a certain if you are of the community in sort of this the flip side of that question which is like. It's not my thing to call someone right. I'll just sort of draw distinction between juice which is a word I love and I think is being reclaimed and all of us they disagree. Many of them are over sixty but I think and me and Stephanie and Alana Newhouse our editor but there are young Jewish woman I mean there's a Jewish women's. Archive's had a blog called juice with attitude. I mean there are specific situations where some younger women Jewish woman have reclaimed part of the answer there is it was once upon a time non-offensive and then it became offensive but there's a history of it being an actual just noun JAP I hate and I disagree with Stephanie that can be used but acknowledged is that there are communities of Jewish women who use it affectionately in the in group there has never been a community of people who've nicely used Szikszo or even neutrally used. I mean it means like worm. Vermin the male equivalent is shake that Shakey. I didn't know there was a male a quick male equivalent basically like unholy unclean abomination would be the closest. The male version is amazing and so that's why the Milton's terrible what I'm saying. It's amazing that it existed. No one really knows because we call women's fixes says we don't call men shake. It's like you don't call Craig Daniel Craig as she gets because he's an area. We didn't tell the call gets the it's like someone needs to start vice we call the vishay and that was bad of us in our in the newest Jewish encyclopedia the Pedia don't we have an entry for chicks appeal yes but as it relates to Seinfeld. It's this idea thank you wrote it. Did I think it's actually the laser beam like attraction. Some Jewish men have to women it also sort of like brings up a subject which is that a lot of Jewish men federalize Jewish women or a gentlewoman and so and then the woody Allen like yeah and that's not illegal or wrong and interfaith marriages aren't illegal illegal or wrong but the words sticks that gets deployed in critical ways in those situations we are you pro or con. I can't tell UNCON- all con what is okay what if there were a bunch of women who were married were not Jewish marriage Jewish men and they call call themselves like I would be okay with that because that was like yeah like they would be like that was there. That's what they call each other and it was a way of like but I'd hate them. I wouldn't find it offensive but I'd be like that's the thing you know because that's you taking back A. Word reappropriation something that someone would maybe like your mother in law would call you and so like this is all these like Adri. What was I'm Adrienne the Australian feminist who reclaim the C word which is very Germaine Grier like reclaiming everything right yeah? That's like the she would no doubt right a sort of hot take about why it's okay for her to you as a gentile. That's a great question. The Malone women come with the best. How many you have two more sisters two sister? We need their dental. The early questions good rate. I'm Jesse Asham fresh meadows. Thank you all for the Joyce and repeating conversation. Thank you for coming question about fact checking since I'll share the truth is hard as some publications of have recently published who who's who who are the religious leaders the rabbinate or the Bait Din of fivethirtyeight and this podcast best. Who Do you look to to keep you on check in and I've listened to many podcasts but I've actually never heard corrections on things that are posted online to be like Oh? This is an era we need to correct and for us as far as fact checking the podcast is that we we probably cut. I would say maybe five to ten minutes of a podcast and often that'll be like you know. We're looking something something online before we say it or if it turns out that we got something wrong will produce a cut it before it runs so I guess that's like how we handle the the fact checking portion of podcast stuff on a new show basically we do it differently. Certainly we have a very active listenership who will tell us repeatedly when we are wrong imagine Jew and that's the shocking that Jewish pockets but basically we'll hear from people. WHO said you know you said this thing? It's not right or like you said this thing. It offended people feel very much like they can communicate with us. We have a very active facebook group where people are like that thing. Mark said this week was dumb and I'm like like but you know we're part of Tablet magazine which is as you know the leading Jewish News and culture publication online in America and they literally pay me to say that but we are under the auspices of an actual journalistic organization and so we there is that weight on us like I can't say something that is defamatory Clermont. Thank you for being gentle the week thank you for having me he J. Crew. Do you like talking about yourself. If you're like me you like talking about yourself at least a little so listen. Here's a chance to talk about yourself and help out your favorite podcasts. Would you take our listener survey. If you go to bit dot L. Y.. Slash you owe survey nineteen. You can answer all sorts of questions about who you are your background what your connection to Judaism deism is help us figure out just how wonderful diverse our listening population is. Why do we need you to take this survey? Well advertisers want to know about who our listeners are foundations that might give us grants WanNa know about who our listeners are and most of all we want to know about who our listeners are so listen. Could you go to bit dot L. Y.. Slash you owe survey nineteen. It'll take like five minutes and actually it's kind of a fun survey. It's kind of enjoyable fill out. I took it myself right now. We have about one hundred fifty responses to our survey. We really want to get to a thousand. I know that sounds sounds crazy but given how many of you there are we think we can do it could a bit dot l. y.. Slash you owe survey nineteen talkback muzzle tough this week. I have a collective Mazal Tov to the people of the great state of Israel who had so much fun with their previous election. Two days ago decided to have another one three weeks from now and so let's have let's. Have you know Uzma vestry. Let's have as many as we would like after we do ours. We're going to turn them over to you. Yeah so you get to say that I'm GonNa stay monsters my parents because they came to this show and it's Mazal Tov to my my daughter Rebecca whose team placed top four at the Memorial Day soccer tournament off of the Mass Pike in the ninety degree heat this past weekend gentile Claire Malone. Do you have a Masato of this week to come back to you. I guess well my ten year college reunion this weekend so maybe like Mazal Tov to the Jesuit College class of two thousand nine zero nine was a good year for the hoyas great year near the and and audience members have have you any muscle tops wait for the microphone. Please tell us hi. My name is Alexa from Forest Hills and today is my sis my brother-in-law's birthday my sister-in-law's birthday but not married to each other and it's also happy anniversary to you but my parents in laws my my mother and Father in Law's fiftieth anniversary and they got married at Leonard's of Great. Now this is great. They do a great. What do we have? Hi My name's Rafi Cohen. I'm very nice Jewish name <hes> I have two miles us. One is to my best friend actually Jacob. She's actually went to introduce me to your podcast so want to send our <unk> out. She lives in Israel. She would've loved to be here tonight and also miles up to our youngest son Mafi who had his ups share and on Monday on Memorial Day. That's a good man I should say by the way the other day I had to say to sit because we have a nine month old boy at his. Here's get along so we going up Sharon. I'm pushing for it. We'll see if that could be the next sort of plotline on her appearance this week as well varies just great beards and upshur aw possible live on the show hi my name is Carolyn Delman and my son turns. I hate to say it forty tomorrow and my sister from Little Rock Arkansas loves your show. Eh thinks you should come there. Listen to all the time. Moscow thrilled that I'm here today to Arkansas four times. I've been to modem more Arkansas than most people have covered a political campaign and I'd love to go back Josh Hi. I'm Jessica Lehman ash originally from Cambridge U._K.. But now of Brooklyn New York and I wanted to say Muslims up to my dad who's sitting here who's come to visit because it was him who saw this recording this live recording posted it in tablet Mac despite the fact that thousands of miles away and suggested that we come and my mother-in-law husband who from fresh meadows let's see this local but also roundabout roundabout mulberry Bushes Low Anyway Muslim Dodd Mazal Tov Day I. I'm Linda Liederman and my two sons are here tonight. They are huge unorthodox listeners and my mom will top is to you my son who is going for his Bachelor Party this Mazal Tov to the lucky lady who gets the fruits of the Bachelor Party the Party of the single. Where is it wow destination bachelor other brother planning it? I feel like he should get him out of really a lot of work we all. Where was your Bachelor Party? If you had one I refused mine was in new you haven for two more my name's Nathan High Oil and it's my daughter was what the wedding anniversary tomorrow and just as a spot checker. You forgot to mention your a book on the Bar Mitzvah tour well. It's true thank you. That's a deep cut. The did you Brooklyn Yeah. The Bar Mitzvah crasher is back out on Amazon so thank you for the plug sir. I appreciate it. We'll final Mazal Tov this week no pressure but pick well. My name is Steve Teleki. My son Seth Teleki was just promoted from I ten at the captain. The United States army is a lawyer in Germany at the moment like that so we have. We have a person who was a captain in the American army. We talked about the difference in the American army and Israeli army and what people call their commanding officers Israeli army. Let me get straight. Lieutenant is dude captains bro. That's about right unorthodox brought to you by Tablet magazine on the web at tablet MAG dot com send us your thoughts criticisms concerns and fact checks to UNORTHODOX TABLET MAG DOT COM or call our listener line at nine one four five seven four eight six nine to book us or advertising this email producer Josh Cross at J. Cross Cross with a K. at tablet MAG DOT com. You should wear carry Unorthodox onesies mugs shirts underwear all sorts of things. No baby is too young to billboard for our show. Go to bits dot L. Y.. Slash Ortho shirt follow us on INSTAGRAM UNORTHODOX PODCAST and on twitter unorthodox underscore pod join our facebook the group thousands of other people are there are show is produced by Josh Kraushaar Associate Producer is Sarah Friedman eater. Our artwork is by esther worker. 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The Newish Jewish Encyclopedia: Ep 198

Unorthodox

1:07:31 hr | 11 months ago

The Newish Jewish Encyclopedia: Ep 198

"I read the book and I'm ready. This is unorthodox universities leading Jewish podcast. I'm Mark Oppenheimer joined today by my co hosts tablet senior writer Leah Liebowitz Shallow Shallow and deputy editor Stephanie Button. We have a book this week a very special episode dedicated to our brand new book the newest Jewish Encyclopedia which is all the Judaism twice the page page count it is a large book with little vignettes in it to give you a sense of what this book is all about three thousand years of Jewish history from Moses to Sandy Koufax say and down to the present day. We have a special episode dedicated to this book and I think that we need to to give you guys a sense of why did we do this. I mean we're we're podcasters after all. No one said you have to write the definitive guide to Judaism Stephanie. I think it started started with you didn't it. Yes I was on my honeymoon. you know it just celebrating liberating my new marriage and just really unplugging from work and my life on the show and walking on the beach in Hawaii and said you know you should really write a book. He's people love the show people really connect what you question just like. Write a book that explains Judaism to people and I was like okay another mytalk Taiwan another is it's the sunset bend looks at you and says my love I think she'd write a book with Mark and Leo and two writers Mary. The Button Cohen Story. We came back. I brought that half baked idea to you yeah and the thing is that from there I mean it immediately struck us that you know thank God ben was there to tell us what was right before or are is because it's kind of if we'd been moving toward writing a book all along rightly Al Yes the amazing thing about doing the show. Is that as we've said so many times it's really started it kind of on a Lark. We started the show because we thought maybe it'll be fun and you know we'll have these conversations that we have anyway but then something happened and the thing that happened is is you guys are listeners. The J. crew out there started tuning in and then writing to us and telling us about your lives as kind of clued into Jewish life as we thought thought we were. We were astonished to learn how incredibly beautifully diverse Jewish life is all over this country and how many Jews have so many different unique Nick Jewish experiences that capture different facets of our history and our tradition in our religion and our people had and so it kind of became apparent to us at what were all all doing you know hosts than listeners in Jews everywhere is really just trying to find a way into this tradition away of making get our own way of making it feel kind of organic to us and that there are so many questions that so many people had in so many conversations to be had as we're sort of busy recreating recreating this thing every day and making it new and making it hours so we said hey why don't write the kind of book that's three hundred pages. That's not the thirty eight volume a definitive history of everything but rather that's the kind of book that gives you enough information and enough to really go on to feel grounded but also that is more than anything nothing else an invitation to never ending stories of conversations just like the ones we have here on this podcast and the interesting thing. Is You know this idea had been hatch and we were working on the I like this encyclopedic guide and we're making lists and you know something that we were hearing from a lot of our listeners and and I was you know hearing for my friends and stuff like that is is that people felt like they weren't good enough juice. They didn't know enough. They didn't do enough and what we wanted to do with. This was basically say that's that's okay right. That's that's fine. You're you are who you are and you this. You know we're going to talk about stuff that matters and you know through that you can connect and then what happened as we were writing the book. was you know Pittsburgh happened right like something. America can a scary place for Jews and so these people who who were already feeling the sense of insecurity about how much they knew if they went to synagogue and they didn't know all the lyrics are all the melodies they wouldn't they would be shunned or however whatever keeps people from synagogue and lyrics to me. I don't even know what what do they do. What are they saying? We weren't good enough if every single thing and and and that's why I might ask you a question and you didn't know how became compounded by the sense of actual insecurity we feel in America and so that really I think for our podcast took on a really heightened importance and for the book so that now we actually want a guide that you could open to any page and finding billy Joel and Al Jolson and also Jona Joseph and Juba which is those Jews who practice Buddhism inflected form form of Judaism so basically this idea that there is so much variety in what you can know about Judaism in so much that you can be interested in and we want to just reflect that that diversity back at at our listeners who have always been pushing us to reflect the diversity the day in body and that we've been really trying been challenging us to do so I was also thinking that our listeners range from Haredi Alter Orthodox Jews all the way utterly secular and non Jews right and so what that means is they don't even know how to talk to each other sometimes and looking at that page right. There's a certain certain kinds of Christian or Jew or Muslim right a human who knows billy Joel who of courses is Jewish rate or Scarlett Johansson who is Jewish and then there's somebody of a different generation does out Jolson and then there might be a super religious person who knows nothing of secular culture but knows a lot about the book of Jonah or the Biblical character Joseph and so so these people have a lot to learn from each other and to put all of these different characters into one book is to give something to the very religious who might not know secular culture and say hey here's why billy village oil matters and also to give something to the Scarlett Johansson movie fans who don't know who Joseph is in Torah and say here's something that matters and I think that's kind of like exactly the the point of this book because we spent so much time and so much energy discussing and sort of categorizing and cataloging the things that set us apart like well. I'm a conservative Jew. I'm under formed you. I'm a reconstructionist Lesbian Organic Vegan Ju. I mean all these distinctions matter. They're important. I'm not saying that they're not but really the only thing that really matters is old Jews or Jewish Jason or Jew lovers right and the thing that this book does is come up with one giant hi in common ground that is yes edify but also if I may funny look it wasn't easy putting together the book there are a lot of choices to make about what stays in and what stays out and we worked really really really really hard to get a little of everything and not miss anything. Of course we failed but look we didn't want to be to Ashby normative right. We know that in fact world jewelry is much much. It's more diverse than the synagogue that somebody might have grown up in in a given American town. We wanted to have women as well as men. We want it to be sensitive to all kinds of diversity within the Jewish community. We wanted to look at Cultural Jews as as well as religious Jews. We wanted to have a sense of geographical diversity. We wanted to give attention to Jews from all over the world and finally look we really are trying to capture all of Jewish history from creation Gatien arguably when the Jewish spark began all the way down to like yesterday it was tough but look you can acquire a copy and yell at us about what we left out. I actually think those are going to be the most fun conversations. If you go to tablet MAG DOT com slash newest Jewish you can buy from your favorite purveyor including india-bound so the money goes to independent bookstores tablet AMAC DOT com slash newest Jewish. I cannot wait to get the angry emails about what we left out and you know it's not just us an amazing team of contributors who worked with us on this book some of your favorite Unorthodox guests like Aj Jacobs Marjorie ingle molly Yeh Shelvin Marcus. We really leaned on a lot of people for their expertise in a bunch of different areas. We had a ton of of our tablet co workers helping us with this. There's essays spread throughout the book Jews in Sports Jusin Music Jews in Hollywood. There's a guide to what greetings you say on which holiday there's great guide to modern British terms like facebook friend so a big thank you to all our contributors who really helped make this book what it is so breath Philip Ross entry from beyond the grave. It's very impressive connect. I didn't think you'd make the deadline. Get it and so here is what you're going to hear right now. We did not want to deliver an audiobook version of this this book though there is probably in the future we hope going to be an audiobook version of this for now. We really wanted to give you a taste of the spirit of the book and hopefully inspire you to go out there and get this book. Start these conversations so we picked eighteen entries that we sort of thought were good grounds for a lively discussion and we have a very special guest very special guest guiding us through these entries and so now without further ado here it is newish Jewish Encyclopedia. Hi Gilbert got three this age on unorthodox black and white cookies. We're here in my favorite restaurant. In the world the place sorry go about once a week. Ryan agrees on the Upper West side of Manhattan home to the world's finest black and white cookie here to talk to the master about a very important question Hello Sir my name is Gary Griss. I'm the third generation owner Barney greengrass therefore the absolute indisputable indisputable master of black and white cookies I know from the absolute but I'm the Solo and now to the matter at hand so people start all right from the Brown side. Some people start from the whiteside. Some people eat straight down the middle adjudicate this once and fall. What's it right way to eat about white cookie the way I put it on my right tire and my left high here I go right down the Jewish center? I have it right down the middle. I obviously have seen what people break them in half half and they seem to want to share it the black half white heft to me right down the middle and I worked my way right through it. I think it's all personal I think people want to try to extend their many black and white if they're buying the smallest size so they could share it with their friends and family ago like they feel like it's I'm putting it right on the fifty yard line breaking it right down the middle so it's like Pizza Matsu cracking and they gotta hide half of it and the other half Zoe male enjoy Gary greengrass. Thank you so much. You're quite welcome. What's her name when you cooking the backside of the whiteside like I why trump's good reason fash days there's more than just Yom Kippur right? We've got a whole a bunch of fast days and Judaism. We have so many fast as in half fast as in all kinds of things there's one that you and I are particularly obsessed with at listeners of the show. May it may may know what what's special day mark. When do we celebrate? Our special is some Gdynia the fastest golly which I take to be for some reason. It's just a fast day that cheers me up the most who was this fine gentleman to have merited a whole fast day just himself Gallia as everybody knows right. was an early early governor of Judea who was assassinated by a fellow Jew as recounted in second kings which might argue for all of us taking some Gdynia a little more seriously right and yet as our friend Rabbi Joseph reminded us at a recent live show in Stamford Connecticut which are going to err in a couple of weeks so good Dalia still functions kind of as the butt of jokes. Here's Rabbi Tiller skin from that live show. WHO's talking before about someone Dahlia? We're all time favorite fast day. Why they tell a story about man? They asked him do fast on some Dahlia so I'm going to tell you how many of you do not know what some goodell is okay so to be fair. My haverman in your congregants don't know the fifth most important fast it falls on the day after Russia's Sean when a man named Dahlia been a calm was assassinated sonate he'd been appointed as the governor after the destruction of the temple by the Babylonians and actor fest was declared the next time the actual Jewish leader service state was assassinated like that it was just Cock Robin but anyway they estimate if you fasted on Gonzales. He said No. I don't and he said why not he said has three reasons. KC hadn't thought he would have been dead by now anyway. If I died the Dahlia wouldn't fast and if I don't fast on Yom Kippur. Why should I fast on the shore back in seven steps and growing up sh about wasn't really a thing we didn't you know take the day off on Saturday? We did not watch TV or go. The synagogue or anything like that was pretty much a normal day a normal weekend which is obviously different from the week but I always sort of thought of by and keeping only really early religious Jews. Did you know the ones who had like the Chabad ovens and took the elevators and prayed all the time and really really strict in their religious observance but as I've gotten an older and as I've gotten busier honestly the idea of taking a break has just gotten so much more appealing and Chabad is actually this built in break that Jews designed like like a gazillion years ago a time to unplug unwind and just take it easy. You don't have to be religious and you don't have to do anything serious. Here's our guide to bring you into your weekly life. In seven easy steps one blessed the people you love. Nothing gets you in a better mood than feeling grateful for the people who make your life so rich you can look up the specific blessing online or in a prayer book called the door or just speak from the heart and let them know how you really feel. I love that idea of just like a weekly reminder to tell people you love them or you care about them or you appreciate them to light some candles. There's a blessing for this one too but the point is to enjoy the warmth and the light and the special atmosphere. Let's tonight's going to be different who doesn't have a good artisanal candle title three Enjoy Cup of wine. Thanking God is optional. Why not Friday night? That sounds easy enough for invest in a really good meal you don't we'll have to work the next morning so why not put in a little extra time and plan a fun meal. Also Holum makes any no special loves Sala and you don't have to make this meal you could order her in. You could go out with friends. Just something that sets Friday night dinner apart from all other dinners five rest you may not be one to observe Chabad hardcore you may want to turn on your TV or hop in the car but why not capture at least some of the day's glory by deciding not to check your email or putting down your cell phone for twenty five hours. You'd be surprised at how far a little digital it'll detox can go honestly that's the most appealing idea about this all to me. Six learn something curious reason Torah or another Jewish text but even if you simply pick up a book about birds or cooking or anything else you're into and spend a little time learning something that makes you happier you are on the right track. I would love to read more and I think Saturday is actually the perfect day to do that. Seven say goodbye Chabad ends we do have a special ceremony to celebrate the end of our holy day in the beginning of the week. Try Try it. They're spices. It smells nice and it's really really fun. Okay so have duller might be a little much for people but still try putting your phone away reading a book going for a walk eating some great Hala and telling the people in your life that you love them and appreciate them. That sounds easy enough right Shabazz Shalom no matter how you do it Barbara Streisand Barbra streisand I'm Wayne Hoffman Tablet Magazine's executive editor huge Barbra streisand fan but we have to admit over her enormous Miss Career. She has made some missteps. She's done a lot of covers. Not all of them good. Here's a terrible one guava Jelly nineteen seventy-four. She covered Bob Marley and the wailers ehlers. If you've never heard it you might not want to listen. You want to hear a good cover. Listen to her cover. Cole Porter's come to the supermarket in old Peking was on her nineteen sixty three three debut album and appeared in an early episode of the marvelous. Mrs Basil Definitely Worth a listen. If you want to keep you up at Yeah Houston Oh snow frog loves to sing. They have some in the seventies. She turned to disco. Go some good some bad. Here's a bad one. The theme song to the very forgettable movies she also was in called the main event in nineteen seventy nine Maggie awful truly awful the same year she released no more tears which you might know is enough is enough with Donna summer which you have to admit however you feel about disco. Go is a fantastic song. That still holds up forty years later. She made a ton of duets in her career. Some of them quite good some of them not so much much. You want a bad one nineteen eighty-eight till I loved you with Don Johnson. Yes Don Johnson this. I had to rank even lower than her two big hits with very gib- guilty and what kind of fool with Don Johnson it's worse and you WanNa on a good schlocky duet with Neil Diamond's. She recorded you. Don't bring me flowers in nineteen seventy eight. It's Schlocky but fight me. It's a great song. She's also of course famous for her. Show tunes. She's recorded so many wonderful show tunes in her career under Broadway album her back to Broadway album lots terrific versions of songs but they're not all terrific. She's perhaps best known for her version of memory from cats in nineteen eighty two but I'd put it on her the not so great list she took bombastic song and up to the bombast and in in the process really paved the way for Celine Dion to have a career that in itself is reason to Ding that song in my book you WanNa Hear Barbara streisand knock the hell out of a show tune go back to the nineteen sixty two recording of pins and needles the nine hundred thirty seven labor union musical in nineteen sixty two they put out a twenty-fifth anniversary edition of the cast album with Barbra streisand's singing. Nobody makes a pass at me which is one of the greatest and funniest thing she's ever recorded. Have a listen saddened I use listerine Barbizon and Muster Rolls Royce Open so why US Chris. Let's go on his own legs Sunday backs so why got sex US ally L. denominations mark. What's the deal with all those different Jewish denominations? You mean like conservative Orthodox reconstructionist renewal secular humanist Yada Yada Yada. I'll just get along. Here's the short version Orthodox attempted to keep all the commandments in Torah. The Reform Lupin says you could discard a bunch of them and the conservative movement tries to have it every which way for example in the nineteen fifties the conservative movement said it was permissible to drive on Chabad but only if you were driving to synagogue now the reconstructionist who you might have heard they will help you imposing new blessing over your car when you drive on Chabad while the renewal Jews would prefer that so you just dance your way there tyrod Hi Orion. Stop me if you've heard this before ready the really ambitious narcissistic son of a very wealthy man shocks the world by somehow ascending to power mainly by colluding with a large empire but he still just a real estate guy at heart so he spends most of his energy building you huge structures that are very very fancy. A lot of people are saying lives in an exorbitantly flashy lifestyle and is hated by pretty much. Everybody my talking about your jared's race. You're Herod case. I did that in camp. I was pretty three King Herod of course do we owe Masada Masada the portent Kasaya and of course most important the second temple field the Western Wall Nick King of June so it's fifty seven eighty and celebrity cells else wants me this episode really really special to be brought in a few rings so we went on Cameo Dot com and ask a few celebrities who they thought was the greatest who who ever lived. I is Bethany Frankel from the real housewives of New York City. I don't know that I could speak to the greatest of all time but like iconic Jews. Jerry Seinfeld is an iconic connick jr for obvious reasons so as Billy Crystal Gary Marshall Larry King but like. I don't know if they've changed the world in any way that you're thinking gang. I don't know if you mean like save the World Save Israel Jews. I just mean like when I think about I think Andy Cohen I think of a series chew that is good for the Jews and takes being Jewish so seriously wow what an amazing I'm thinking of like Carl Reiner two and Rob Reiner aw hello this is Corey Feldman and I have a special message for I guess a show called Unorthodox which sounds very very very unorthodox. I mean the whole idea of it sounds unorthodox especially if you're talking about Jews and calling them unorthodox because they're maybe not really orthodox but what if they are the dogs and you're still going on earth. That would be an insult anyway. I am Josh Josh is the one who put me up to this. Josh Cross which by the way is not a very Jewish name either That's definitely unorthodox but anyway. I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm insulting your show but I just have to speak my mind anyway. I was asked asked to tell you who I believe. The greatest Jew who ever lived was and of course I I've gotta say me because who else will would be a greater jude. I can think of seeing Dan's act gnome joking joking Jesus Christ. I mean literally Jesus Christ was obviously the dope is do that ever did live first of all you know changed. Everything I mean. He was old school to the Max. He was like the Oh gee original Gangsta. All the dudes were jealous of him. He didn't have the best judgment friends but he definitely definitely was close with God and for that I gotta say big up your please. I am Shalom Moslem-moslem. Good things have a great one peace and Love Okay Corey Next Steve Gutenberg. I'm here recording on the most popular Jewish podcast called Orthodox. I'm actually conservative and I was asked asked. Who is the greatest you that ever lived? I gotTa tell you something. There's many many great choose. You know you start with Albert Einstein you go to Jerry Lewis go to George -Sego you go gee whiz. Mike Grandfather Joseph Gutenberg a great you rabbi capture my rabbi who are misfit me greet you I would say the Rabbi Steven Carr from Cli- Israel in palisades great you hi. I'm frank the Kanter at our temple great you I could go on and on and I think I will George Segal. Did I say great you Barbra streisand rate you you know I heard Christopher. Columbus Miss came from Barcelona and we're not a five I think for the actually the inquisition was Jewish there and he was a great Jew who actually actually had to hide his Judaism because he wanted to be successful and he got Isabella to give him the three boats actually Columbus. I was a Jew so there you go great us. We are we sure Columbus was Jewish Jeff Ross great to be here on Unorthodox the greatest of all time time gotta be Adam Sandler because he went mainstream Jewish comedy from my generation. Everybody was doing corny. Jewish jokes cheap jokes big nose jokes but Adam Sandler did the Hannukah song on Saturday night live and after I heard that I was like Jews can be cool. I'm never doing a cheap Jewish joke again. So Uh from my perspective is a comedian working today. Adam Sandler is the greatest show hello. I'm John Lovett's here on the Jewish wish podcast Unorthodox. I don't know why you wanted me on this because I guess there's there's a rumor going around that I'm a Jew and I'm not at you. I'm Jew so anyway the greatest Jew who ever lived let's keep in mind. This podcast is called on Orthodox Not Orthodox so so I have actually there's three number one of course would be me number. Two would be Jesus look with the guy started. He was Jewish and J. C. I don't think his name was Jesus Christ. I can't imagine a Jewish Jewish parents naming their kid. Jesus Christ probably JAS J. C. Jacob Cohen and the greatest you of course was Abraham because he started the whole thing and Christianity Janati is based on them and and the Muslim religion everything goes back to Abraham. Oh did I mention my mother's maiden name. Aim Is Abraham and we're back to me a little circle or should I say circle burs Shays are fevered doc maledictions in Latino Esperanto Yiddish and Hebrew sure you can curse in English but why wouldn't you use one of the languages of our forefathers to do it even better so here's here's my favorite dish curse of all time gay cock in open. Yom my saying that I'm literally means go shit in the ocean it sort of more colloquially used to say go jump in a Lake Lake but go shit in the ocean is just so deeply profound and aggressive. I would like in a tribute to my father to resurrect one of his favourite report. This is from Latino this amazing Sephardi language and the word is Demi Kulu which means it is like my ass so for example Leo would want US Conversation Demi Kulu the last season of game of thrones that was really Demi Kulu and that means that was really bad. Dad Remember episode was so dark. You couldn't see anything really Demi Kulu. This page of the Jewish Encyclopedia how to curse Jewish has swears from from Libido Yiddish Hebrew and Esperanto and what I love about this page is that it actually ties in so well to the rest of the book right so if you're wondering why do we have Esperanto swear words. Esperanto GIONTA was supposed to be this universal language. It wasn't Jewish you actually can go to the entry for Esperanto and discover why it's origin Esperanto was Jewish and then among the universe wears wears red decoction often yom the one that Stephanie loves so much shit in the ocean you see the word Cock in there which means to to crap or shit and it makes you think ulta cocker which actually means like an old shitter an old crapper and of course we have an entry for the the wonderful term to refer to an crotchety elderly Jewish person of Ulta cocker so it's as if like all of Judaism comes together her in the page how to curse in Jewish and you see so many inspirations to of of where are people's journeys have taken example. One of my favorite Hebrew curses is is keeping him out which is taken from a Russian term which suggests that you should go visit your mother who had just shall we say concluded having having marital intercourse Russian is abused pitched the original year Mama joke it is in one word that is very widely used in contemporary Hebrew in Russia. Your Momma jokes you ready ready. Meaning winning rabbi is a term that some observant Jews used to refer to their spiritual leader but say the and you're really only talking about one person the late Lubavitcher leader Menachem Mendel Schneerson who passed away in Nineteen ninety-four man of extraordinary insight his idea was that there's no such thing as a religious Jew or a secular Jew reform conservative or Orthodox Jew. There are only Jews and the most important thing is to make every Jew feel welcome and loved so the rebbe came up with the concept of emissaries or slow him people who go all over the world with sole purpose of just having a warm Jewish welcoming coming home. If anyone ever comes up to you industry and says excuse me are you Jewish most likely they're people from Abbad the movement that the rebel-led it wasn't just a great spiritual leader. He was also a great leader period and that fact did not escape the attention of his fellow world. Luminaries here is one of them reminiscing about her admiration for the Rebecca Ladies and Gentlemen Mrs Margaret Thatcher I wish is to honor leadership itself in Earl that is good honest. Just deny wear saying hang it good report founded upon the Great Creator to whom we owe everything and I honor rabbi why is done and the example he set and the inspiration there for that is given to many many people and we'll continue tin. You'd think the Chinese food on Christmas Kamarck Tracy what's the deal with Jews and Chinese fitted. The amazing thing about it is that there's actually a relatively coherent answer to the question. Lots of Jews lived on the lower east side died. Lots of immigrants from China also lived on the lower east side. This is about one hundred or so years ago. Jews didn't mind going into Chinese restaurants because unlike the Italian restaurants that we're also nearby in little Italy there were no virgin Mary's there was not this association that they might have had it was Cantonese cooking which we don't eat a lot of necessarily now but if you know so you know it's lots of onions and garlic which should sound familiar braised meats should sound very familiar to taste very familiar and there was of course shellfish and pork work but as the authors of an academic paper called safe trae F- describing the paper it was taken by Jews as you know just something in the sauce us or in the egg roll or in the Wonton which Chinese restaurants Hillary signed absolutely marketed as crept basically and so why Christmas. It's basically basically what your parents probably told you. They're open right. I mean you know these days. I I wonder I I think there's there's foods a lot more ethnicities available throughout the country. I think which I think is a great thing you know. It's not just your stereotypical. Oh there's a Chinese restaurant in down. Also I think like I think things are more open on Christmas than they were even like twenty years ago to okay nothing of fifty years ago but yeah it was that Chinese restaurants were opened on Christmas because they don't celebrate Christmas in nor- Jews. Although Jews do celebrate Christmas they just celebrate it like going even trays Roy if I saved Jewish timed chances. Are you think of something negative you think of that that joke that internalized stereotype that Jews show up for the things later than other people you know like well the wedding will be after sundown six thirty seven PM. We've called it for seven thirty but you know nothing's really GonNa get going until eight I have to say I don't like this meaning of the phrase Jewish time for two reasons one. I just don't think it's particularly true I mean certainly nobody who's ever met my in laws could could ever believe that all Jews are late and I don't even believe that most Jews are late. The second thing is that it's a stereotype that lots of minority peoples have I've heard heard South Asians talk about running on Indian time African Americans have a joke about CPI colored person time the stereotype seems to exist among every ethnic community except the Germans the Swiss who of course are obsessed with being prompt and would never joke that they're late for anything but it's one of those stereotypes that so widespread and so useful internally to so Homini communities to joke about themselves that I think for any one community to think that it's later than others is a little bit silly. I mean if everyone's late all the time then it's not an interesting stereotype tape about any of us so I think that we should junk that old idea of Jewish time but I want to jump in favor of another idea the Jewish time that I want us to think about when we think about Jewish time is how Jews relate to everything in the day differently when their lives are infused with Judaism for some people you only do Hanukkah Passover. That's fine but you're Jewish time then is that in December and then again in March or April something feels a little bit junior in the air for some people of course the whole year begins to take on a different character for some people the year doesn't run from Labor Day to Memorial Day or from January first to December thirty first for some people the year runs from Russia Shana and yelm kipper to sue coat and then onto Hanukkah and Passover Chavez and the tissue of in the summer and maybe there is a to Bob in there and maybe there's many out Sarah and maybe there's some good Dahlia and and who knows what else but for some people the whole year gets infused with a different calendar. The beautiful thing about Jewish time is that it can run alongside secular time an American Jew can in think in terms of the fiscal year July first on the political calendar January first on while simultaneously having this other calendar running inside of her soul one that marks the Jewish holidays as well and then there's another way that one can live Jewish time which is just in the week Jewish time can be you work all week week Friday afternoon you start to power down a little bit. Maybe make a hollow. Maybe buy one. Maybe you just run out and get pizza because that's your family's Friday night tradition. Maybe you're GonNa go to a movie Friday night eight and then maybe Saturdays a little bit slower. Maybe you go off line. Maybe you always play monopoly with your kids and then Saturday evening worldly life resumes. There's so many ways ways that time can be structured and there's so many ways that the tradition offers us to have Jewish time. It's so much more than just the joke that we're late for everything in fact whenever pre-start keeping Jewish time I think you're right lanyard listened to the show regularly. You may know that I'm a little bit of a Leonard Cohen Fan and by Fan I mean fanatic I had the pleasure of writing a biography of Leonard Cohen and also getting to know him but as much as I absolutely love Leonard Cohen's music there's one thing that really bugs me the fact that in about thirty percent of movies and TV shows made in the last twenty years there will inevitably at some point be a scene in which the character stairs dramatically into the distance and on the soundtrack calms. That's right lieu. Don't get me wrong. I love that song. It's really really great but sometimes it's jarring to see a juxtaposed with some really schlocky piece of movie and so here they are the five absolute worst uses of Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah in popular culture a number five. We have the watchman I don't care how big a fan your of superheroes but the nite owl and silk spectre fucking in a spaceship above New York as Hallelujah plays in the background that that is I'm pretty sure not but Leonard Cohen had in mind when he wrote the song and number four Lord of war because if there's one thing that is just slightly less Hallelujah than superheroes it's Nick Cage and in this movie in which Nicholas Cage plays an arms dealer to see him standing at his apartment just before his marriage falls apart and saying to his wife a combat by Thursday. We'll go somewhere nice. The C- Lou is just an absolute travesty at number three of course the most famous use of Halloween Movies Shrek. I liked the movie I like Mike Myers but I don't think having an ogre stare into broken glass and seeing seeing his hideous face really justifies the use of Hallelujah and number two the OC really this is one of the funniest scenes I think in all live TV history Ryan Paul's Marissa's bodies flaming car walks very slowly into the dewey night as Hallelujah starts playing and when Leonard Hits the Lou the car explodes and so did my mind which brings us to number one. I Love Leonard and I want to honor him to number. One is not going to the worst but to the best the best ever use of Hallelujah in a movie or TV show in two thousand and twelve right after Hurricane Sandy devastated New York which Adam Sandler and Paul Shaffer took took the stage and instead of belting out just another horrible self-important bombastic sad ballad they started playing Hallelujah and I looked at the screen in for a moment feeling a little bit like really sadler singing Hallelujah seriously but then he just did this in New York you dealt with crappy for like squeegee man and tunnel had restaurant delivery bike and ride through bellevue going you students every Sean Naval Times Square losing all let's part original Ray's pizza thin to put Holly Taller Luria Sandy Screw you screw. We'll get through get through yeah calls where do Oh all I have to say to that is has been yeah when you think of death in Judaism what comes to mind. Here's amazing thing about that question Russian the first question. I think that anyone asks seriously when they kind of what a really rocky Noah Judaism is about is what do you say about what happens after death and and here's the amazing thing. The answer is actually not a whole lot because if we knew what happened after death we would be at an entirely different. Pay Grade and Judaism is a religion. I think kind of incredibly doesn't want to pedal into stuff like well you go to a cheerful place and everything is magnificent is in and you eat the meat of a whale in you drink sparkling wine. It basically says okay look instead of focusing on some vision of the afterlife of which Judaism mm-hmm has plenty to say. It's not that it has nothing to say but instead of focusing on that how about you focus on what actually happens to you when you lose a loved one and how about but instead of putting you in this position where you have to deal with the grief and figure out what you're trying to help but we help you by putting together this almost like twelve step program right right mark but what are the steps. What are we supposed to do immediately? After someone dies okay well so Judaism. It's like a four step program right. There's there's any new which is the first day or really before. The body is buried and that's when you're just in shock. You don't even have to talk. Everyone's supposed to take care of everything for you and then what comes next is the the period that most Jews know best which is Shiva which means seven so the seven seven days during which you stay inside and people come to you and they bring you food and they pray with you and they just kind of nurture you and then there's the thirty days right the first month flow team team and I've never understood slow Sepia what is slow she. It's thirty day period of thirty days after someone's passing in which you commemorate the fact that that a month has passed and basically that is pivoting point right from this period of deep mourning in which the world seemed to really have stopped and you really can't believe that you're supposed to go on living after losing a loved one to eight a slow and gradual introduction into not overcoming not precisely healing but in getting used to the idea of your loss and then there's the whole year right some market at eleven months some it's more like twelve but there's the whole year of loot of morning and during that year choose US might take on a number practices some of them avoid going to super festive occasions right they won't go to concerts or big parties during that year because they want to just keep something somber about that time and then of course other people make practice to go to services to find a minion a prayer quorum and say the mourners cottage to nudge their loved one into the world to come however we conceive of it so it is it's this whole four step program and it's unlike anything that any other religion has shiva is something that's actually been depicted in pop culture a ton. There's this is where I leave you. John Trapper for novel became a movie and then there's Nathan Englander Scottish Dot Com Shiva is like a plot device that works really really well because it's this time whenever on its forced to come together and and sit on those low chairs and and really deal with what has happened but it's also where you drown yourself in all the food that people have brought over and you don't think you can eat another Bagel for the rest of your life we're off on book tour and for me that means a lot of red eye flights I get home at like nine in in the morning after driving back from JFK Laguardia and I haven't showered all night and what I need more than anything is a really really good shave. Never smoothness become more are important and what I am trying to regain my center trying to recalibrate my being after being on the road and so two Harry's I say thank you Harry's razors are everything for smoothness. Humans have been saving for five thousand years but they've only been going on red is for like seventy of those from flint tools shark teeth to the first copper razor. We always knew the great shave comes down to simple sharp durable blades Harry's gives you that joined the ten million or so who tried Harry's no gimmicks no extra we're doodads just sharp simple bleeds to make you smooth again. Harrys a return to the essential quality Gerbil blades fair price just two dollars per blade and to keep prices low they they cut out the middleman Harry's is a brand you can be proud of one percent of sales are donated to organizations that provide access to mental health care for men and there's no risk to try them out. If you don't love your shave let them know and they'll give you were full refund. Go to Harrys DOT COM SLASH UNORTHODOX. You'll get a weighted ergonomic handle for a firm grip a five blade razor with a lubricating strip and Trimmer Blade Rich lathering Shave Gel with aloe to keep if your skin hydrated and travel blade cover to keep a razor dry it easy on the go all that Harrys dot com slash on Orthodox and now it's time for more celebrity cameos this round. They're telling us their favor the Jewish food and Jewish Holidays Yo Jew crew. It's Paulie shore. Nothing left how by now she loved how he left a risk a happy it's no way Russia Shawna Away Hannukah Sam Bad Ju. I knew it anyways. My Favorite Ju- food is definitely Crepaz in some my sobriety why what's wrong with my sobriety in then what else do I love so much. I love whatever you guys love some fish like us and of course some horseradish and some blisters from this stupidest Jerry on the West Coast later dudes by I did hit him. You don't stop to down Shamir one of my day indicative dog messaging and we aren't the shooter sugarhill gang. We talk to a man all the folks on the docks to podcast. Let you know what favorite food minus Matzo Ball Sumo's coaching blubber. I like Lots Abby Gag Orthodox doubt all right. My name is Michael Rapaport. the greatest Jewish holiday. I have to say Russia. Shana comes in at Third Yom Kippur number a two for me and I know I'm a grownup and I know I'm not supposed to be getting any gifts on Hanukkah but as a child Hanukkah was always he's my favorite Jewish holiday so I have to go with Hanukkah being number one of course now as a as an adult. It's fun to give the gifts but I will never ever admit to who a Hanukkah not being my favorite of all the Jewish holidays wishing everybody a happy new year hello. I'm Mario Ken tone. My favorite favored Jewish food is very very specific. It's a sesame Bagel from Utopia bagels on Utopia Parkway in Queens with a smear smear of cream cheese on each side and a light layer of smoke sable on each side open faced open faced. Not Sandwich Open faced so that's my favorite Jewish food. I know that's not very unorthodox but and then second place I love a good luck with sour cream and apple sauce and I love achievements with some blueberry compote. I don't even know if that's Jewish food but I think it is. I'm Italian. Although my middle name name is David which is somewhat of a Jewish name so I'm everything was Zo jeep tone logan a house and and I was wondering you know what is my favorite Jewish food and you know what I had a second grade teacher named Miss Half and she had these things called potato lot 'cause because and I call them potato pancakes she called him potato pancakes and I think that is my favorite Jewish. My most favorite Jewish food piece out Jarvis his tone low. Hello Potato pancakes the house or potato lockers. I'm Gilbert Godfrey eaten my favorite Jewish holidays blood as their sacred holiday Yeesh dookie near EAC birth Goldeneye year broke all kinds of boundaries Israel's first female prime minister one of the first woman in history delete her country and also the subject of Broadway's longest running one woman show golden balcony we asked over Feld shoe the actress who portrayed her in gold as balcony what it was like to to literally embodied the legendary leader here's what she had to say Gold Oh my God one hundred and sixty eight pounds and I tell you the bird seed for those tits they almost killed building bird. CD's birdseed and then and when I played London with gold the dresser taught me how to create varicose veins with thick thick wool in every night which I just came back from Montreal I would put on one pair of stockings and then before the support hose went on you start to carve your vascular system every every night and they said Ms let's let's so your veins and I said No. No I want to do this I want to do this is to lose a great thrill. Can someone explain what the mantra is in wide use are so obsessed with it who absolutely this is. One of my favorite obsessions is the the science and the art of assigning numeric values to Hebrew letters and then trying to find out what the numeric value of different words are so for example the letter Olive Olive First Letter of the alphabet is one bet is to chemo is three etcetera etcetera etcetera so if you're ever wondering why the number eighteen is so prominent in Jewish life it's because eighteen stands for high is eight. You'd is ten and high of course is a Hebrew word that means alive or life and of course for Scherzer can be done with anything right so for example. If you want the Montreal for the word for Bagel. It happens to be fifty five right you can you can do anything well not only. Can you do it with anything with you. Take any numeric value and then figure out what it represents so we for example no eighteen to be high but it has other meanings as well for example the Hebrew word word for copy editing also equals eighteen hug. Ah That is a sacred task that is was the Hebrew term for for a deny Hud one God equals eighteen. Ask Does Buddha uh your mind eighteen coincidence. I think not UH GOSH movies. Hi My name's Jordan Hoffman. I'm a film critic and I wrote a number of entries for the Second Pedia one of the interest on Holocaust cinema which is a huge topic in itself and I think the best way to approach approach Holocaust cinema is that there are different types of Holocaust movies and the way we broke it down as in five different categories and the first one is the gateway film. He's one of the most obvious yes. What is this thing called the Holocaust? What do I watch and obviously the answer is Schindler's list? It's the most famous and it's still a great movie a great entry point but it's not exhausted. I I say the exhaustive film if you really WANNA get into it would be clawed linesman's show which is eight and a half nine hours documentary with no footage footage from newsreels. It's all contemporary for the time you know you come away. It's like you've had conversations with witnesses for two straight days. It's it's a remarkable experience. Then there's what I like to call the abyss film which is just bleak absolute horror absolute terror I mean this is the worst atrocity in human history mechanized genocide and for that a relatively recent film called son of Saul from a director William of Laszlo Nimesh. It's only about five years is less than five years old but I think that it is a wonderful movie that I saw once and never want to see again. It's bleak and miserable and depressing. there are a number of what I would call psychological logical films how the Holocaust has affected people after the fact movies like Sophie's Choice Our enemies a love story or a recent film called Edo Polish Film that won an academy award more arty films like the night porter or upon brokers starring Rod Steiger who is a Jewish pawnbroker working in Harlem experiencing. PTSD finally elected to talk about the fantasy film which is holocaust is a sub genre and there can be he good entertainment about that too and the best one for that will be inglorious bastards Quentin Tarantino's action film where you get to see Adolf Hitler machine gun into hamburger at the end so that's that's a good way to end it. You throw the Jew fro as we discuss page one forty seven is what happens to many of us when we let our hair do whatever it wants to do for a few months. There is a backstory to the Jew fro in the early years of the flowering of Jewish ethnic pride the late nineteen sixty s early nineteen seventies corresponding into the victory in the Six Day War. They didn't call it the Ju- fro they called it. The is row I S R O oh wow that's deep deep deep knowledge the is role grow looking at a one thousand nine hundred seventy nine hundred seventy one blue mimeographed underground Jewish newspaper read by a member of like Brian in Washington. DC or Hover Rod Shalom Aloma Boston. They're not calling it the GIUFFRA they're calling it the Israel so the thing that grows on my head is in Israel making the desert bloom and guys cmih before I hit that flat iron. You wouldn't believe it well look. I don't think any of you or US can compare to the four photographs that we put in to illustrate the Ju- fro throw in the newest Jewish Encyclopedia and I'm GonNa tell people who three of them are. They have to buy the book to get the Fourth Bob Dylan of course Robert Zimmerman terrific Israel Seth rogan splendid splendid Israel territory based on chronology fair enough you by the time he came along it was the Giuffra but unoriginal. Og Is Roe Art Garfunkel and the fourth a major Israel guy mid to late nineteen seventy s television situation comedy actor I believe show on ABC a let the J. crew do the sleuthing thing. The Ju- fro has been here for a long time but I think the Israel is back so is making a huge Schutte blow. Hi this is Lisa Ann Sandell. I've worked in the world of children's books for the last twenty years and I also have the dubious I mean wonderful joy and privilege of being married to an Orthodox Co host Liel Liebowitz Judy blume has been beloved by generations of readers because her novels thrum with so much life and vibrancy all the confusion and humor and eagerness to grow up that every tween or team can recognize her books beat with a heart that is true inhumane and funny as hell so here goes the top five things I learned about life from Judy blume books I the best portrayal of an ordering younger siblings relationship as an older sister found much to identify with if in tales of a fourth grade nothing Peter's feelings of invisibility and frustration were perfect for the older kid resents his younger and much more adorable little brother sister who seems just to get whatever he or she wants till's of a fourth grade. Nothing taught me how to deal with all that frustration next so I was a nerd and as one might expect I was sometimes the victim of bullying as a kid. I think one of the most powerful on timeless depictions of bullying as Blubber I remember the first time I read this. I was probably Lee seven or eight and I felt like I had been struck by a bolt of lightning at resonated so deeply I knew what it felt like to be bullied. Though never severely as Linda was bullied but the slippery slippery Slope Jill tumbled down felt very real and very scary and I knew I didn't WanNa do as she had done number three. I've scoliosis my sister. Mr Hasn't even more severe form of scoliosis and had to wear a brace when she was young. Reading Dini not only made me feel like I wasn't a freak and like there was hope but it also taught taught me what those mysterious exams administered by the school nurse in the girls bathroom where you know the ones where we had to bend over and walk back and forth number four when I was going to Hebrew Hebrew school three days a week at my childhood Orthodox show. It didn't really occur to me that I could have a relationship with God outside those walls outside the bounds of what I was being taught but as much as I enjoyed reading about how Margaret and her friends in are you there God it's me Margaret talked about periods and bras and boys a total revelation for me. What I found most most compelling most curious in liberating was home Margaret had such an intense relationship with God despite the fact that she didn't have any official affiliations and last but not least how many of us learned about hand jobs and penises with names and safe consensual teen sex from forever and how many of us read those steamy scenes surreptitiously over and over and over? I'll close with saying that now as a parent I can see what an awesome roadmap judy blume laid out for being supportive in realistic and loving Judy blume is a true hero. This is Josh cross the producer of Unorthodox and my idea of Jewish hell is watching your three hosts the bait eight the intricacies of Whoopi Goldberg Rube Goldberg and Jeff Goldblum but leaving out the most important entry of all Goldenberg's peanut chews. We don't talk about hell a lot in Judaism so we had to improvise uh-huh so we asked the listeners to give us their idea of Jewish hell. My name is Heather Brown and my idea of Jewish. How is store bought Hala? Hello Hi J. crew. This is jess in Pittsburgh. My idea of how is the sound a small dogs Barking Sean Hannity Interviews Stephen Miller on Fox. Oh you know my name is Tori and my idea of Jewish. Hell is eating Kirkland bagels from COSCO. My name is Beth and my idea of a Jewish. Hell is getting food food. Poisoning from a young people break fast my name's remark and my idea of Jewish hal is reading. The entire got a loss starving. Hi My name name is tally Keller Stein and my idea of Jewish health is a carb free diet my name's Jada. HR In my idea of Jewish House is Alaska. My name is Adam Klimer and my idea of hell is eating rock Kazbek. Hi My name is John and my idea Jewish. H How is movie theaters closed on Christmas Day Hi my name is John Hype and my idea of Jewish. Hell is resisting as Jared Kushner. This is my version of hell. Is that schmuck someone who decided to the holiday meal. My name is Eric in my idea of Jewish. L. is accidentally going to a Messianic synagogue in my name is out of angle and my idea of Jewish. Hell is manischewitz Danes eight kosher wine monopoly. My name is Ethan Ritz and my idea of Jewish health is the line for food after Neela Marin my idea of Jewish hell it town where the only Chinese food is Panda Express. My name is e. G. and my idea of a Jewish hell is Thursday's vote on all right so now that we've done the newest Jewish Encyclopedia in eighteen entries. We have good good news for you. Which is that the actual book has about a thousand entries and as I think to myself who are these thousand entries four I think about and this is just me but I think about the person who feels kind of on the road to conversion like they've been listening to our podcast? They're not really sure why they get a certain little something a little free song a little Su Song of Judaism and it kind of makes their day better and maybe they don't tell all their friends why they're listening because they're afraid themselves of where this is going and where it's going is that they're Jewish soldiers returning home. They're headed to the MIC for they're gonNA convert and this book is going to teach them a lot of the stuff along the way that they want to know. That's what I think. This book is for Stephanie. Who Do you think this book is for? This book is for people who don't feel very connected to their childhood Judaism right. They went to Hebrew school. They found it boring. They memorize some wrote stuff. They know the ten commandments but definitely not all six hundred thirteen of them but they want to be connected to Judaism and and then they might not be ready to go to a synagogue but they actually WanNa learn a little bit more and reconnect to something that's deeply important to them even if they can't articulate quite why so this book is a really accessible way to just dip your toes back into Judaism and fill in the gaps of what you don't know and make yourself a little bit more confident in your own Judaism and find out how you want to practice and how you want to express that what about who's this book for Israeli so I'm not going to pick what imaginary reader. I'm going to pick to imagine readers. The first is is a Schlomo like me right someone who lives and breathes the stuff oop Dobbins three times a day who bay this homeless who is very deeply deeply into all smell is took four years for what you reek of. It's the hot bath it's actually Tina then then you're smelling way more prominent limited the and all you wanNA. Do you cannot imagine a better idea than just you know sitting on the couch and just diving into all these wonderfully obscure elements of Jewish history and then I have another reader in mind reader in mind not Jewish at all. Maybe they have your son and daughter-in-law daughter-in-law. Maybe they have a really good Jewish friend they just kind of curious about or maybe they just you know always wondered why we do these things and we do and who are all these people that sort of have here mentioned on on television shows in the media that we own and so for them. This book would be a really helpful okay. I think this book is also for that very very religious listener in Lakewood or borough park or beneath brock who secretly listens to our show to get a taste just just a little smidge of the more secular Judaism that she left behind when she became super observant in her twenties. I think she's been listening to our show on the down low and actually I know this person exists because we get mail from various versions of this person from an encrypted account this book which will have to be shipped to APO box in the next neighborhood over. We'll have to be delivered secretly by that cousin whom she still stays in touch with WHO's way off the Derek we will take a sharpie for that for that listener and right on the cover ever Talmud new volumes whoever you are whoever this gift is for go to tablet MAG dot com slash Jewish Jewish by the book and then tell us everything we did wrong wrong UNORTHODOX TABLET MAG dot com unorthodox brought to you by Talent magazine on the web at tag dot com send us your thoughts at unorthodox tablet dot calmer color listener line nine one four five seven four eight six nine subscribe to our letter bit Dot l. y. Slash Unorthodox podcast often come to live to book US email producer. Josh Cross Jake across with a K. at tablet nine dot com you can get our swag our t shirts and other goodies at bit dot l. y. Slash north shirt join our facebook group. Our show is produced by Josh prosecute great you our associate producer is Sarah Redman Eater Ju- Josh Hot helped engineer. This episode grew thanks to cameo and all the celebrities troubled help also big thanks to artists in books which may eight created produced stitch typeset and marketed the newest Jewish Encyclopedia. We especially want to thank their ronin greet. You Michelle Cohen Ju- Fella Lame. Oh you theresa call your did you Anzac Greenwald grew. Thanks to all our contributors. The book is written not just by the three of us but also by a Mary cast of other Unorthodox Writers and friends and of course thanks to all of view the Jake for the thousands and thousands of you who have been our family and our biggest critics over the past four years this book is for you and thanks to our families for letting spend most of our time on on this book and the rest of our time on this podcast. I'm looking at you. Ben Cohen Groups you thanks for giving us this idea and supporting me all throughout it and Lisa Raju who who not only contributed entries physical but also stayed up several nights reading and commenting and editing and said Olivia Oppenheimer groups you you didn't know Oh we conceived our fifth child that the first year of his life would be spent with me shirking paternal duties to go to the basement to have Zoom Calls Ellen Stephanie to talk about entries for Psalms uh-huh Marcel Proust and Protocols of the Elders of Zion but you know you did marry me after all our artwork is by Jew our social media mosquito has Elliot Abrams read you a few music despite Gholam Great Jew online at Golden Rock Dot com our mailbox team is by Steve Martin Raju Rabbinic Supervision this week by us all judgments about Judaism in the newest Jewish Encyclopedia and the the attendant podcast come from Mark Oppenheimer Liebowitz Stephanie Button it grew Ju- greet you greet you and we come to you this week from Argo studios and also relic room two of the finest sonic combat's New York's Flatiron

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Couch Surfing: Ep. 176

Unorthodox

1:10:08 hr | 1 year ago

Couch Surfing: Ep. 176

"This is an orthodox the universe is leading Jewish podcast. I am Mark Oppenheimer joined today as so many days by my co hosts tablet deputy editor Stephanie button echo, high new and senior writer at tablet, leave of its peace and love peace and love today to Jews. No gentiles, this gentile free show for those of you who are scared of gentiles who have thought all listen this podcast, but they're too many non Jews there. It's not safe space. This week is just just honestly the real the real reasons that we don't know what he literally run out paintings. Do we know any? I don't really go. There are some out there at what's great is. We get so many so many recommendations from the wonderful J crew for people we should have on this week. We had two people suggest to us that we have on rabbi Joseph Tillerson, and and we should and we should. And by the way, one of those call to the were both from people who saw him speak in Virginia of. Lot of DC shatter about his mid Atlantic appearance. And of course, he is terrific. And of course, he is the father of our former producer sheera. But we, you know, surprisingly we had thought of having him. He's in our wheelhouse. He's on the list have been, but none of you ever sends us like you should have on this remarkable Lutheran it we just you're no help with that. The only the only gentle, we know his Pete booty judge. He'd booty judge. Ed, he's all of a sudden really tough to get. We should have had him on when he was just mayor of south bend, Indiana, more on Budi judge in a moment. The Jews were going to have on this week side from ourselves therapist and author Lori Gottlieb author of the new book, maybe you should talk to someone. And also we're finally getting on the air and interview I did in Cleveland was the morning after Cleveland live show I had breakfast with this guy had met on the airplane in Harley Cohen who is this fascinating character. I have to stop you right there this. This is kind of a good intro. I think to the show it tells you everything you need to know about us. We have very distinct in flight personalities seventy budding what are you doing on a flight? I sit down and buckle up. I like turn on a movie, and I don't talk to anyone. All right on a flight. I would scowl. There looking angry do anything give our small book in your hand, perfectly leather bound. Beat something that would really turn other people often conversation. You don't want to talk to the person reading that. But Mark, Ben Seon Schlomo Openheimer other. The other. Surprise of exactly no one is kind of talker. Seventy de recall them. I were sitting on like opposite aisles up but kind of in the middle of the plane. Mark was way back in the back. We're like sudden we're like who is that guy. He's talking to. And then it's he's talking the entire time. And having a great time with him in a tie shirt. Not you Harley. Yeah. Maybe that's just what what I know. After the fact what had happened was that? I'd seen him in the gate at the airport in New York. And he was talking to some lobsters who had their big confab. They're big q news that weekend. And so, but he was talking them like he knew them and he had a Grateful Dead trucker cap on. So I was and then I ended up being seated next to him most people that is to move three rows of and not make eye contact to you. Of course, like, hey, I'm Mike Oppenheimer. What's your name? Anyway, turns out he's exactly the gotta talk to explain a phenomenon of always wondered about which is the Jewish dead head, or as we call them in college, the crispy Jew, and because you know, there's like ten kinds of Jews one of them is the jam band Jew. And he's the guy is gonna talk to us about it turns out, he's deep end. He seemed dozens and dozens of jam banjos members four. So I recall the next morning. I took my my Rhody my mobile unit to the deli. Corcoran Lenny's as I have called Jackson before. Right. So we had drama between those two delis had to hit up the other one and Harley and I sat down, and he ordered the usual because he's known to everyone in town. And we had a great conversation. And we're gonna play that as our second Jew of the week it conversation, but I little news of us. I will go first this past robot Saturday morning, I was in synagogue at Beth, El Casar, Israel. It's not about me. This isn't they're not all about me. I wasn't gone Beth El Casar, Israel, New Haven, Connecticut. The partial was shimmy, which is one of two places in Torah where you get the laws of cautious of what you can eat and can't eat after services were sitting at lunch, and we're talking with some friends at the table. And one of them says, you know, that breast milk is parv. And I said you mean like animal breast like cow's milk. No, it's not which raises the whole question of others breasts. I guess they're not. But he's not no human breast milk is parv. You can you can mix it with your. Meat sandwich, or with your cheese sandwich? And I said, but why would you want to my my kids are sitting there? You know, it's a mixed mixed crowd. And he said, well, I know this because in the town where I used to live. I had this these friends they were this really crazy couple, and they had gotten religious, and they were keeping very very strict coffered, but they really missed cheeseburgers. And so they were collecting her breast milk to make breast milk off rest milk mozzarella also that they could put it on. They're kosher burgers at have a kosher cheeseburger me set that's amuse like a loophole too far. Just don't have a, but you can't. So rather than go to the whole foods? And by the cash you chase like Honey bring the pump because I really in the mood. So I said, so then I said to him I said did they succeed? Like did. They eventually collected enough of the breast milk and find the right cultures and figure out how to do it and go to the right hippie weirdo out on the farm in the burbs and make their breast milk moot. S- and put it on a Burr, and he said, I don't know we moved before found out and touch with them when we heard the phrase breast milk mozzarella, which is a great name for a band. And that would be a champ at Harley cone go to see that base moments rela and their and they're opening act. His foreskin beacon. So anyway that that was peaks. You wonder why do we go to synagogue? It was worth only for that story. So I see your breast milk mozzarella, and I raise you you're not gonna be able to raise me I'm going to say right now, probably let's be Frank. But go ahead. It's a testament I think to living to a life well lived when it's Wednesday like ten PM, and you get an Email from a friend and former guests on the show, right? Sarah, pulling Bailey. Yes, sir belly of the Washington Post the Washington Post. Yep. Raith great columnist saying have you heard the news about the bagels? Now. Of course, she knew precisely who to ask. Because in fact, I've spent a lot of that day learning about the bagels. And this is what happened to those three of our listeners who may still not be aware of this some gentlemen in the great city of Saint Louis posted a photo of a boxer bagels from Pinera. So, you know bagels issue. Bigelow. Bagels sliced not horizontally as one would. But vertically as you would slice bread. Which of course, our culture being what it is was all the news, everyone in my circle talked about literally had gone through a bread slicer. So that there were yes. Bunch of tiny piece slices of like wonder bread. The best thing since. And to say what I what I kindly uphill about this important development in human affairs. She wanted a hot she wanted the heartache so you know, I said to Sarah like, this is the piece I was born to right because people were so upset like oh you have the gall to slice bagels. It's like they culturally misappropriated, the gentiles and Saint Louis at Panera, which by the way, is what Ellie wants to name her first son Panara, she thinks she's like I'm gonna name my children death sludge, and the boy will be Panara true story. But Pinero these gentiles at Panara had the call to slice it vertically to which I say, Amen and Hallelujah the bagel as of a pint once or twice one hundred thirty eight times before on the show end in the new bestselling book. You should totally get right now. The one hundred most Jewish foods bagels are the least Jewish food in the world. They were something we brought with us from the old country. And guess what? Once you could. Them at Panara. They're no longer hours. And so I welcome anything that makes them interesting. Again, this stuff you can get it every airport in America. You know, you have you have twenty I twenty two Einstein bagel outfits in Utah, which is more than there are Jews in Utah. So it's gonna food. Now, I think it should be sliced any which way I wrote in the piece I think it should be consumed with mayonnaise and cold case should be turned into a blooming onion. It should be. So that's a radical take is that it's become. Okay. It's all okay. Anything to make bagels really become the most boring Goya food stuff ever anything that. Makes it interesting in new again is welcome. I love when you your take just really surprises me. Full of surprises. What's up with you? Stephanie by also have food news because I guess for Jews, but so markets like what is wrong with you people? You mentioned the hundred Jewish foods book, and it actually stemmed from an online project that we had done in twenty eight teen which was so we had prepared all hundred foods put them on a table. Photograph them at the same time and release it as a web feature we spin the table and click on the food's very cool web feature. So cool in fact that it was nominated for a James beard award for innovative storytelling and the James beard awards are like the Oscars of the food world. So when do we find out if we win it? So I will be at the dinner. It's the the second Friday of Passover, April twenty six you're being very modest. You are nominated for James him. You Stephanie Taylor Budnick are James beard award nominee me Alana and Gabriella Gershon who obviously was on the podcast for food episode. We put together this project, and we are nominated, and it's really exciting. I just learning about this very sons up against two other store. Doesn't Michael twin every James beard. He's in the food the food pathways are food ways. Yeah. Are not going up against him. Luckily, you up against a Washington Post feature about what's what's in a food truck. It's this very cool interactive eating facing video of putting truck and then from eater that's called in search of water boiled fish sort of like another interactive storytelling. Now, here's the thing. Hey, I think you're gonna win be if you don't win that's gonna save. You don't win. You're going to be really gracious about it. And I'm going to have to be the for you. Semitism. I'm I would look at it would be amazing to win one hundred this king foods, it's still really it's one hundred people realize on for dishes, my favorite moment of this great revelatory week of you being nominated Pence tweet as like great when you ask your James beard award nominated wife, like where are we going for dinner, and she's like, Ana, no? Feel an added pressure now. No, this is this influence. You are, sir. I don't know. We'll see what are we doing for lunch sliced Biggles slice the wrong way. I think the only there is no news that could top that. But no. But if anyone is more important in America right now, then Stephanie Budnick it is Pete Buddha JR. Whom we are calling Pete booty judge. Judge Lee, and I were talking a little bit about this while Stephanie was late for the tape, and and got lost in my apartment just talking about how like the exit one of the one of the few things that unites me and Leo right now as we both we're both on team Budi judge the guy he I hadn't even checked in until this week. And then I check in. And I discover that he is a sonic Allama vinick probably Meshiah, we think maybe doing a page a day of Thomas. No, he's not Jewish. He's marks ready to convert thing Christian from south bend, Indiana, talks about his faith husband and his veteran service. He's actually super glad she's probably eagle scout. That's gonna she is. And I'm gonna get mail from the Jewish boy scouts. I'm sorry. I'm going to stand on that. Like he is. He is all of that stuff and more. He's a Rotarian and align moose and elk. And all of those things that I would never joy that I was an otter he's a beaver. I so badly. What has got to be president? I just don't like making fun of his name as a fellow boot neck. I think we should be. I also have no idea how to say his name. So I don't want to even try it Huda. Did he boot edge? But on the boot, it's digits. We're going. Judge Judy chives. I don't like that. We can't make fun of people's names were taking creative licenses liberties here, this is with love clear. Really it is. I mean, Eddie way we are going. We're all on team Budi judge here that's saying we're gonna vote for him or give him money but run team. I mean, the stories that you hear are just so fantastic. He met someone at a party, and that someone had a friend and friend was Norwegian and at which point booty judge just starts speaking fluent or region and the person's like how do you know this relatively his attack Icelandic language or of rela regions Icelandic? No what I meant. What I meant avian language. How do you know, this is Terry Scandinavian language, and he said, oh, those a novel I really wanted to read so I taught myself. Yup. No doubt. He's in a Tuesday night Mishna group. He's absolutely. He's Sunday mornings. He's doing his his Rashi lookout. Cory booker. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. That's a good Sieg to the news of the Jews. Cory Booker, not Jewish. In fact, gave a an answer at some town hall about how central Christ is to his life, which by the way, don't believe actually don't think that Christ is central to Cory booker's life Christ. And Corey I think like I think he's probably of fairly agnostic liberal lapsed Christian who doesn't think about Christ? You can't be a lapsed Christian and be president. Like that is like he I think I think he doesn't wanna say what he actually is what most of the Kennedys probably are which is a set cultural, secular agnostic or. Which is scenario Christians right there, Pinera Christians, and the they slice their Jesus vertically, and but he pivoted on Wednesday night from his answer about central crisis to his life to saying, you know, by the way, can I quote, some Hebrew to you at he said I studied Torah to there's a song sung during the high holidays here. Let's let's listen to it, quote, some Hebrew to you because I studied the Torah to there's a song from during the high holidays key batik could fill a whole holmium may my house be house of prayer for many nations Jewish mama's across the country swooned opened up their Google Chrome browsers gave eighteen dollars. And friends there is a lot of broken in this world and one way that some of you might have thought of responding is by becoming a spiritual religious leader. Yes, I'm talking to you all you've wondered you've been waiting for a sign the sign is that your favorite podcast host is saying, maybe you should actually do this. Maybe you are somebody who can be a guide and companion for others and their communities, the Jewish community needs rabbis and cantors who creatively engaging with Jewish traditions. Who are being an inspiring force for helping us to live in this broken world. And our sponsor the rabbinical school of Hebrew college can prepare you for this work. Now as many of you know, because I've talked about it before I have been Electra there. I have spoken there. I've talked there. We've done a live show there. We have a close relationship with Hebrew college. And we feel very good. But asking you to at least check them out within Hebrew colleges. Vibrant and joyous pluralistic community, the rabbinical students find their voice as they, cultivate, an honest authentic expression of Judaism, they drink deeply from the well of Jewish tradition. But in a. Rigorous academic environment merged with the issue environment. They learn to lead diverse communities because look this is a nondenominational school, right? You can end up serving any kind of Jewish community. They lead them with skill and an open heart and the rabbinical schools opened a second career folks as well as those just starting out graduates work as pulpit, rabbis teachers hill professionals pastor, social activist community organizers and also maybe some job that none of them have thought of yet. Maybe you're going to take your rabbit into labor organizing or swim coaching or teaching your free school, or whatever this training will serve you in whatever you do extraordinary, faculty and leaders who are scholars visionary and educators, they are dedicated to helping each student grow their exemplified by their wonderful new president rabbi, Sharon Cohen NFL. I should mention that she did my wedding to sit. I feel very strongly about rabbi Sharon and may thirtieth. I Mark Oppenheimer will be emceeing their community fundraising event called Hebrew college live stories in honor of our teachers, it's a great opportunity to help recalls honor, great teachers, raise some money and have fun evening. So listen good. Hebrew college. That. A you to find out more about the may thirtieth fundraiser and about enrollment opportunities everyone who visits the site will get a copy of rabbi Sharon's piece, the beginning of sacrifice a moving reflection on the long 'til life that matters and you'll also find out about maybe what your next chapter in life is go to Hebrew, college dot EDU slash unorthodox. Again. That's Hebrew, college dot EDU slash unorthodox. Our first Jewish guests this week is Laurie Lee. She's a psychotherapist New York Times bestselling author and the deer therapists columnist for the Atlantic her latest book, maybe you should talk to someone is out this week. Welcome maury. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. So the book is about both your your work as a psychotherapist and also your your own personal therapy journey in meeting with a therapist yourself. I'm so curious why write a book about both of those things? Right. So there are two big themes to the book and one is that we grow in connection with others. And the other is that we're more the same than we are different. And so felt like if I was going to be writing about patients, and they were going to be very vulnerable that I wanted to be the expert up on high. But I wanted to be I wanted to show my humanity because I think that that helps people feel less isolated, and I think that it starts opening up. These conversations around our emotional. Health. This is an amazing book, and it seems require to have required. The tremendous amount of vulnerability really kind of like open up about this was her point while working in which she just stopped and said, I can't share this. Going to read it my mother's gonna right because. Right. I mean, you talk you follow several patients through a year or so of doing therapy doing work with them. And then you also take us through this journey of the therapy urine with your doctor, whom yuko Wendell. And yeah, all of it seems like a violation of everyone involved. And yet you obviously changed enough identities and did enough work around them that. But nevertheless, your patients could read this. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. So, you know, I think with my patients first about just to you know, I lay everybody's fears. I don't just randomly right about patients. So my patient. I have permission to write about the patients in the book. But in terms of me, it's the most vulnerable I've ever been in a book, and I and that the bar is high there because I've written a lot about myself over the years as a journalist and author and other books, and so I think there were times when I felt like I wasn't it would be fraudulent. If I didn't really expose myself. In the same way. And I don't mean expose myself in some kind of titillating way like with the patients, I think everybody is just we're just humans kind of struggling in the world, and we're dealing with the problems of modern life, and the the problems that have that are age-old of you know, how do I love and be loved. How do I deal with regret? What can I change? What can't I change? How do I change anything that you have to be really honest with the reader, if you're going to grapple with those questions, I love this book for the same reasons that I've always kind of repelled by therapy seems to be something you refer to it actually, very candidly. I think it's a part of the funniest parts of the book. It's like a game. Right. When you go to therapists, you never go to a dentist and say, oh, I bet now he's going to extract molars three D or whatever it is that like in your mouth, you don't try to second. Guess what your dentist is doing? You just sit there and take the treatment. But with a therapist heroes. Like, why are they quiet? Are they judging are they listening are they trying to get me to do something kind of like? A therapeutic, you know, dance, and this kind of seems to lay it'll bear it's almost like a magician tell-all. How therapy works right? See I most his we don't want to be considered the wizard. Right. We so I think that what I wanna do in this book to demystify the process of therapy. I think so many people don't get help. Because they think therapy is exactly what you just said. And that sounds really provoking. Yeah. Well, there you go. So hopefully, that's not what people are doing it. There were very transparent. And I think that that's important because it's really this rich emotional experience in therapy. And we're not trying to hide anything from our patients. We're just being very real with our patients. Of course, there are times when we're not saying something. So for example, I might think something that I want to say, but I know it's too early to say, and I'm gonna hold that and kind of tag that in my mind for when I think you might be ready to hear it. But it's not that we're being withholding or that were playing some kind of game. I'm super pro therapy. I think it's fine. I've been in therapy at various points. I'm not right now. Leo's one of those people just like he's allergic to the idea. But I just raised this way. I think you should get some therapy. Do you everyone should get some therapy? I don't think everyone should. But I think that it's a really important way of discovering things about yourself that you would not otherwise discover and the reason that that's important because it's not some kind of. Navel-gazing activity. The reason that's important is because the way we relate to ourselves impacts the way relate to others. So a lot of people have some kind of relational struggle going on in their lives, and they kind of are shooting themselves in the foot, and they repeat a pattern over and over. And it causes a lot of distress. And so what can they do to see themselves? More clearly therapist will hold up a mirror to people and help them see something that was a blind spot and friends and family won't tell you about this. Or if they do it will come off as a criticism, you know, people have an agenda, I want I want to tell you this thing about yourself. So that you can make my life easier. Right therapist doesn't have that agenda. I love their I love my therapist, deeply, but reading this book. I realized I actually don't know anything about her I found her wedding announcement when I googled her way back to find her address to send her the check, but what this book unpacked. So interestingly the therapists have. Inner lives to in this person who is taking on all your people. Yes, there people in. And of course, from the sopranos. I know that there is therapists. I think we also have understand that. But I'm so curious about the way in which you peel back the layer of the therapist as human thing that was important to you to do. It was. I always say to people that you know, my my greatest credential is that I'm a card carrying member of the human race that without my humanity. I wouldn't be able to help people. And so yes, where people, and I think sometimes even though that sounds obvious. There's a chapter in the book called embarrassing public encounters, which is when people encounter us out in the world. And it's almost like when you're in first grade and you run into your teacher best buy and she's like with her family, drink cutoff shorts, and we're like, no. You're like no one's doing. So my pediatrician at stop and shop with her like trying to wrangle her kids. And of course, you want to think of your pediatrician is just omnicompetent with children at all times. And it was I I still haven't recovered, right? Well, there's there's an incident talk about in the book where a colleague of mine who's a very well respected child psychologist was in the bakery. As her child was yelling. You're the worst. Her six year old patient and her mother happened to be there. But yes, we're we're just people. But I also think that it's important for people to realize that that's a great tool for us that because I have lived my life. I can understand somebody else's life. Even if our life experiences are different, but with Google as you point out at length in the book now, even if you wanted to sort of hold back the self disclosure, we all go, Google therapist, you included and you get Google Google that you go your therapist your patients. Google you is that I was unclear if you thought that was really problematic like it. It's a problem in the relationship that that the technology's introduced I think well, yes. So I ended up googling my therapist and everything that patients do with me. I ended up doing with my therapist to. I wanted him to like me if I saw someone in the waiting room after I wondered if her sessions were more interesting than mine. I wonder why she was there, and I googled my therapist as my patients do with me. And what I found out was that his father had died. At a relatively young age of a sudden, heart attack, and I had been talking in session about my close relationship with my father in his eighties. And how I was so grateful that I had this time with him. And all of a sudden, I felt the sinking feeling as if I had somehow caused him pain 'cause my therapist pain. Somehow rubbed it in that, you know, I was having this great experience with my father. Now knowing that he didn't get to have that experience with his father, and like many of my patients, I hid the fact that I had Google stocked him because who wants to admit to that. And I had a lot of shame around that. And I was really worried that I would slip up. So I avoid talking about my father in the same way in therapy. And Finally, I realized this is not helpful and I- fessed up and all the air returned to the room. So let me let me ask this poll. How we talk about things in a beautiful way versus a destructive way. One of the greatest kind of peace piece of advice. In in the book of which there are many was that they're two different ways to be sympathetic. Right. Someone comes as a my boyfriend broke up with me a big theme in this book. There are two ways to respond to that. Right. Once the idiot way and once the wise way, right? So those right. So I talk about the two kinds of compassion in the book idiot, compassion, and wise, compassion and Indiana, compassion, right? But idiot compassion is what our friends and family do which is they don't wanna rock the boat, and they want to be supportive of you. And so if you say, you know, my boyfriend's a jerk or my bosses at jerk, or my friend did this thing to me, they'll say, yeah. That was terrible. You're right. And you know, they'll they'll completely take your side without even questioning what went on on the other side trails, great, which in the short term idiot, compassion, right? The problem is you'll just keep repeating the pattern over and over. It's not very helpful your honesty would be. More helpful. But they might not be able to hear it really like your best friend, be honest with you, can you can you hear it? From them depends on how you deliver that I think that's one thing that therapists are very skilled at is. How can we help you see something about your role in a situation where you don't feel criticized or blamed, but it actually feels liberating to say, oh, I have some choices. I'm not trapped by this situation. And so we might take another. We might give you another perspective or offer you the opportunity to look at a different perspective. And that can be really is opening, and that's what we call wise compassion. We'll give you a compassionate truth bomb. You did a great interview with Terry gross on fresh air. And you said I got Terry gross to to to talk about her own therapy, experience and she loves therapy. And I was thinking turn it must be so nice to just talk about you. Anyone the question that was part of the interview was when Terry gross told me about her therapy experience. Teri Grissom therapy must be like a beast. Shut up just about me. This is a good most. She's been weirdly out there more like she did that turn on this. As us like why is to alternatives who loved that? I'm obsessed with this. And she was very gross on that show was thrill. I feel like she's sort of. She's probably in her sixty. She's not like at the end. But you know, she's stepping back a little from fresh air. She's giving Davies a little more airtime, and I feel like she sort of transitioning to some new space in our life where she's going to be like own her celebrity lanes in the new avengers movie. Very humble, she started the interview before we started. She said, hi, Laurie. I'm my name is Terry gross. And I have a show called fresh air. And we we're an interview show. And I said Terry, I know much Terry a therapist, I know from much. It was I thought it was a sign of her humility, and I was very impressed. That's idiot. The capacity. The part that struck me when I was listening to it was you you described Wendell your, therapists. You wanna know if he likes you? And he says as you say, you have goodness Shama like I like your Shamma, right, which I sold, and I was like I just hear what I think. I hear. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of going on in that room is is windows Jewish. Yes. Is that redundant? I read Wendell. No. But then I was like he clearly is. So I what. You know, I wanna I wanna like do this up more than Terry gross would which is like knowing now. But are there themes, you see like among Jewish patients or they're like, the are are there gentile problems in Jewish problems. I think there are human problems. But I think that different cultures have different kinds of issues that that are more common to them. And I think with Jewish patients there tends to be a lot around achievement and good enough. Am I meeting my parents expectations? I'm doing something different from what was expected of me. I don't know how I feel about that. I do know how my parents feel about that going obsess over. I think there's enough week this. You know, I think they're they're more kind of questions around. Less. What their parents think of them and more about struggles? They're having in the world. There's a bid parental achievement aspect to the to the Jewish patients think in different ways, especially around sort of gender too. I think a lot of women feel like maybe they're doing something different from what their mothers would like them to be doing their questions about. Should they be married? Should they have children by certain age? Even in today's world. It's interesting how that still persists in sort of those issues sort of holding us back developmentally do think emotionally. Well, I think there's a pole toward wanting to have a foot in tradition. Right. And I think community is a big thing. Also for for Jewish patients that they they like the strong sense of community. But what the community might be asking of them might be different from what they want for themselves. So disaligned in this book, the really upset me said don't believe it's true. And it goes something like this. There's something likeable. In every person that you have to say that cause your therapist. I don't have to say that. When when we when you start off when you start off with with John, the the sort of narcissistic, entitled Hollywood producer who insults me. He calls me. I says that I'll be like his mistress, and he hands me a wad of cash. He doesn't want his wife to know that he's in therapy. But then he says, no, actually, you're not the type of woman, I would pick a mistress more like my Hooker. And then he's like. Likable. Right. Of course, we come to want to give away any spoilers. But we come to, you know, love this guy and understand that the way people behave is really a way of coping it's their way of protecting themselves. So people that you don't like in the world. They're just they're acting in that way because it's protective for that. John was somebody who was terrified of having people really see him and get close to him. Even though he was this very very successful guy out in the world and seem very at ease socially. He was terrified of people getting close to him. And we find out why later so my supervisor said, there's something likeable and everyone it's your job to find it. And I thought yeah. Well, not everyone is not going to be something like everyone. But but it was true. If they let me see them if they are keeping me at arm's length I'm not gonna find the things that are likeable. And it's funny because I think that things that we hide from other people are the things that actual. Will make us most likeable to them. Those are the things that will draw us toward them. But people spend so much energy trying to hide the truth of who they are from other people for fear that they won't be liked. I'm a somewhat odd question. I sometimes think about the fact that therapy psychotherapy as part of culture is really a century old about exactly and then if you go back, you know, to Victorian times, and certainly before go back to the seventeen hundred sixteen hundreds there was no psychotherapy. It didn't exist. The closest approximation was you got to confess to your priest periodically. If a priest happened to pass through your village, or whatever. But people didn't have practices of self disclosure at all where they what society like when nobody had it was it better because people didn't have the expectations of self knowledge or self disclosure. And so they were happier within the expectations that they had or was where they're just they're just a lot more misery their baseline level of more people with more relational problems than this industry came along that needed to be invented. Why can it be both to solve them very miserable? I'm going to go to war on Cratia as a result. I just I'm just wondering like this is brand. It's as if we invented marriage one hundred years, here's this institution in sort of certainly middle-class western. Culture that simply didn't exist. So like, what did you do in eighteen hundred if you were having relational difficulties just supplement them live with them in eighteen hundred we didn't live as long first of all. So you know, the lifespan was what back then right middle-age now. So I think that fifteen year like half my life is over. Exactly, exactly. But I think I'll see you were married by that, you know, your parent by that. It was very different. I think today we have so such different lives from then we have, you know, and we care a lot about we have so much freedom in terms of our relationships that they didn't have that. So we care a lot about the quality of our relationships because we have choices about them. How do you see this profession changing? Now that books like yours and TV shows like sopranos and in treatment have made this process, so visible to people, you know, this book is is being made into a TV show and one of things I really wanna do is portray. Therapists as just normal people. I think when you see therapists in the media TV film, they're kind of these two tropes. There's the the very cold distant removed person who's sort of maybe paying attention. And then there's the very competent therapist in the room. But the train wreck the hot mess outside of the room. And neither of those reflects any of the therapists that I know any think that making a TV show about a person who happens to be therapist as opposed to. Let's do a show about a therapist. But here's a person, and she happens to be a therapist. And I think that's very humanizing. And I hope that's what we can do with the TV version of maybe should talk to someone this. This new way of looking at you guys as people which is weird is going to change the kind of the whole process the experience, I think that I think that it'll be really positive for helping people to feel less alone in the world. One of the things that I see so much in the. Therapy room. Is that no matter what people come in with? There's this sense of underlying loneliness. So they can have lots of friends, and they can have family, and they can have, you know, Twitter followers, Twitter followers. But I don't even mean that are they gonna people in real life who are in their lives. But because we don't really connect in the same way people are lonely, and they're seeking connection there seeking something else. And because they don't have those connections often, they hide whatever depression, anxiety, grief, whatever normal emotional struggles that people are going through. They don't really share them in the same way and therapy is one of the few places where they feel like they can do that. So many people will say, especially men men will say I've never told anyone this before. And what's interesting about that is the thing that they'll then reveal is so mild to me it's like it's like, that's what you've been hiding. You know that was so mild, but they don't say that. But you know, women will say like, the only person I told was my sister are the only person I told was my best friend, and there's so much. Shame around these secrets that were keeping is a tree. Or is it just the fact that these support structures that we once had, you know, religious communities large extended families are just gone now. I think that's part of it is that because these support structures are gone that we don't we don't get to talk a lot with other people about them. And so we feel like nobody else is experiencing this and therefore we feel shame. We feel like something's wrong with me or also sometimes people feel like my problem, isn't that important because you know, I've been feeling sad for the last couple of months, and I cry sometimes when I don't even know why. But you know, I have a roof over my head and hashtag first world problems. And, you know, look at what's happening to all these other people in the world. And so my problems really, you know, don't merit any airtime. And I think that's really dangerous because the more we minimize our problems. We kind of stuff them down. But the feelings don't go away. Just because you want them to go away or they're inconvenient. And so what happens is they get bigger. And at a certain point. It's like if you have chest pain, and you don't go to the doctor. And then, you know, you wait until you have this massive coronary people are going to have the emotional massive coronary if they don't get their their emotional, chest pain checkout. Leo, I don't want you to have your emotional coronary. We don't show coronary you go to their Lori Gottlieb. Thank you so much the book is maybe you should talk to someone and listeners, maybe you should buy it. Maybe you should last night. I wanted to watch some more TV with my wife, and she said, I'm sorry. I have to go keep reading Laurie Gottlieb's book. So if left me there on the sofa to watch shrill by myself, while she went to I'd already read your book, I put it on her pile, and I've lost her for few days. That is I'm sorry for you. But that is the highest compliment and thank you to your wife. And thank you guys for talking with me today. Thank you. Martini. I need to talk about food. I do do you want. Do you want to hear what I had for dinner last night? Did you eat for dinner last night? L? I had an amazing really truly one of the best Turkey breasts. I've ever tasted in my life. It was first of all most important in descending. Order for me. Kosheh kosher second of all delicious third of all one hundred percent grass-fed like all of the beef and poultry sold by this. Great company concerts this year show, co foods, that's KO, L foods dot com. No antibiotics ever. No hormones oh. Pesticides, the chemicals Ojea mouse. No animal byproducts. I hate that. In my Turkey, family owned farms that pay workers a fair wage directed consumer and composed packaging. I don't care about any of these things. I just care that it's kosher and delicious. But if you wanna be a better person than me, you should go right now to co foods dot com, that's K O L foods dot com and use the code unorthodox for ten percent discount. And I'm telling you, you will not find more delectable, kosher meat and Turkey, and chicken and duck and cow. Whatever you like on your plate. They got it. And it's been tastic and. Inhumane, and well raised and pedigree and terrific. So as mentioned at the beginning of the show were flying to Cleveland, I meet this an airplane. I judge from his hat that he's dead head. I just from his overall vibe, and the fact that he was schmoozing with us at the airport gate that he's a Jew, and I thought to myself, I gotta get to know this guy and after an extraordinary airplane conversation. I said we gotta get together for breakfast tomorrow. And the next day in Cleveland, we went to Corky Lenny's deli. And this guy broke it down for me. Why there are so many Jewish Deadheads how he returned to Jewish practice through an outreach organization, what matters to him spiritual path every he just was one of these profound souls that you expect to meet when you go to Cleveland. So this is me a couple months back talking Corky and Lenny's deli in Cleveland with Harley Cohen. How many dead shows have you seen in a year in the last ten years in your lifetime? I started in nineteen seventy two in Saint Louis was my first show. I was eighteen I went to visit Washington University to see if I like the school, and I knew some people there, and they immediately handed me something to take and we went to Grateful Dead show. And I decided the next day. That's why I wanted to go to school spiritual experience for me. It's still is I didn't take my kids until they were probably fourteen they were dead heads since they were two they both loved it. The instant the moment they heard it, and we share that together in on every level, it spiritual for all of us, my whole family. My sister family, Mike, nieces and nephews were it's a big family event for us. This is like these families were. One person gets from gets very religious before you know, it not just their kids. But their parents sisters brothers like everyone around you became a dead head. I don't know if it's an infectious thing or not I truly believe that we we all have an antenna that is capable of listening that that some people just they just don't hear it. I I mean, you know, I mean we look at at each other during chosen we go. Did you listen to that? I mean, you, you know, you go to I've been to three hundred plus shows and to be that excited, and it's so interesting. You know, I grew up at this amazingly, great conservative orthodox synagogue in Columbus, Ohio, fantastic place. And I went to show as a child on the weekends on Saturday on shabas. Even though my parents didn't go I'd walk. I'd walk three miles literally when I was ten years old and my father worked as an accountant his office was on the way. So I'd stop in say Hello. And I'd leave and go to my best friend's house. And I brought a change of clothes with me every time and we'd play basketball. You know, sports all day every day Saturday, and it sure was a blast. I loved it. The the group of friends, and I had there was different than my social fronts. So we had like fun. But I was like every other child in those in a typical Jewish education. That's not orthodox goof around and. So you don't really learn anything. So my belief in Judaism was unquestioned. However, it wasn't deep because I didn't learn anything. I just believe didn't know that I believed I just did when I went to college, and I was in pre med. I went through a very serious crisis. I lost my faith because you know, that's pretty much what they teach in college. They start with algae, and you end up with human being, and it's pretty hard to argue when it science, so I I ended up in a rather serious crisis literally a life crisis. So that I went through and after that when I moved to Cleveland, I started a journey of refining. My Judaism, I'm married amazing. Jewish woman and our journey started with conservative temple that my wife belonged to which I didn't like at all. But I went there every. Eweek I took her grandmother there. Once I started going thirty some years ago. I just kept going then we started with Asian Asia had very immediate impact on me. Atia Torah fire of the Torah is it's an outreach group not unlike abides, but but different I actually don't know much about it issues really all about youths which means that they weren't serving Jews who became observant. And so they're outreaching to other secular Jews combined his not about his FFB for the most part they're from from birth. And so there's a much deeper goes the history, and the, you know, the beliefs are much stronger, but the the ideas the same which is every Jew is a Jew, and that's a very important concept. And so. Batas of amazing organization. So I'm involved with both and with everything Jewish because it's so rich. The crisis that I went through it was severe drugs, depression, the whole schmeer was I was kind of a loss. So I didn't didn't seem to have a there was nothing inside. I felt very empty. Didn't know why though wasn't that. I realized what it was. You know, I like many other Jews in those times. I started looking at other solutions. Like, why am I feeling this way? And then I studied Alan watts and read everything I read it all oh philosophy. Oh, yeah. We were staying up tripping all night talking. You know philosophy is very intense looking for those important solutions and didn't really find him. But what I did do was I went on the mend and because my life was more important than at that time my career, but any? Anyway. So this crisis, which I is so important because what I really what I learned from a and from abide is really being Jewish is not about accepting Judaism. It's about asking questions and really finding your faith in this life is about seeking it. You're your own path as by asking your own question. You know, the difference between Judaism Christianity is very simply Christianity tells you this is what you must believe. That's it. You're not a Christian. You have to sign on the dotted line in Judaism, you are Jew. Whether you believe in it or not because you have a Jewish soul. But to understand in believe in Judaism, you have to ask you you have to learn about it because you can't just say, I'm ju- or I'm not do you have to ask the right questions. And if you ask the right questions, you'll find that it's a very very long arduous. Difficult path to really understanding what what is Judy ISM. So. The thing that happened with Asia Torah when the first class, you know, it was like my wife set up the class. Of course, you know, this didn't sound interesting or fun or anything. And then on the first class, we talked about moral dilemmas, this this completely blew my mind. And most importantly, what came out of that class was anything you do in life is about taking baby steps, you see we all believe because of the society we live in that we have to get to the finish line. Now, you have to go from zero to one hundred in four point one second. And that's not really what life is all about life is about the journey. You take baby steps you don't have to be all or nothing in the thing. That's beautiful about organization like asura Abbad is they don't judge you where you are on the ten yard line or the fifty. You're not judged and you don't judge yourself. Everything you do is baby steps learning how to be in a marriage or raise children. It's all baby steps you can't expect yourself to be at the finish line on day. One apply that to anything in your life, your career, helping people who who need help people who are going through severe crises helping them get through it all those things if you can teach them that it's all about baby steps, we take one step at a time. That was the secret for me. And as soon as I realized that I I said, well, my first step is I'm gonna take my kids Israel next year. And I did that you know, that was life changing because I had never been I volunteered to go during the Yom Kippur or six day war or kipper war in seventy three when I my first day college. That's when the war started. And I went to volunteer and didn't end up go. Going but never went Israel. I was afraid to go because I thought I'd never come home. And then I went, and it was the greatest greatest place to be on earth. You know? So back to the question of how how you figure out your own observance level. What sort of deal have you made with yourself about what you want your. So as to look like, my my wife, and I we do it together. Each step. We take you know, we decided like five six years ago that we were going to be kosher in the house. That's a tough one markets. You know, they they didn't understand it. Now, they do and they, you know, takes time like everything else. And you know, you can't be too old to want to improve yourself. Judaism is all about improving yourself being able to say, here's me what's wrong with things can I fix and try to fix it. And try to make it better that doesn't mean that everybody needs to be kosher. We Gayle my wife, and I think that that's important for our souls. So we know it's hard. So that's why we do it in steps. Our next step may be outside the house. You know, we'll see a year ago is when I started I made a commit. To put onto fill in every single day. And I do that that changed your life in any way. Everything has an effect. Everything has its place in your life. You know, I'd probably go to Schule every day if I had time, and I've you know, when I'm retired. I mean that would be a dream of mine, you know, I'm just get up and go have a little breakfast and go to show, you know. And then go about your business. You know, whatever it is. You wanna do when you retire maybe even work but right for now. I can't so at home. I in fifteen minutes, I can do my morning prayers and put on Fillon it fill in for me. It's like this when you plug in electric outlet, something a device into an electric outlet. What you're doing is. You're completing a circuit the electricity then completes a circuit. And for me. That's what Fillon on their they're connecting the circuit between your. Hand and your soul it connects a circuit. Right. It says okay, hand do something. Good with what your soul wants you to do. You know, remind yourself. That's what what it is. Shabbat is the is the thing that makes the difference between an animal in an assault a Uman. That's what shops why see an animal has to eat seven days a week. If you're a wild animal you have to work looking for food seven days a week. You don't have a choice on Chaba. You say consciously today, I'm not gonna worry about money and work. I'm human I can make that choice. I have the ability to make that choice. The reason I love other music. I like other music, of course. But nothing is interesting. Nothing. I can't think of another John that I mean incredibly, you know, I it's like one, right? If you gave somebody who's never drank wine six thousand dollar bioline and said here tastes us. They go. Yeah. You know, it's all of the history that went into that wine that you're tasting and it's the same. When you go to the dead when you hear a song play differently than you've ever heard before all of the times, you've heard it before are part of it. Because you've heard it so many times with the Grateful Dead. Of course, there are things we always liked to hear. But what makes it fascinating an interesting and magical is that they can take any one of their songs and if they're playing well. It's the best you've ever heard, you know, my friends, and my family all know that every time I go to show, they all know this. This is my saying it's going to be on my tombstone, and it's going to say best show ever. It's what I say. At every show the thing. That's amazing. I mean, I don't know how to explain it to you like I your stuff today that I've never heard before. And I go oh my gosh. How in the world to do that? How did they play that song so many times and then come up with that? I mean, it was remarkable. So that's the physical part the work ethic. And then you go another layer deep, you know, in the next layer deep is their talent and the art of it, and then their unselfishness the unselfishness of their ego. And then you go deeper, and then there's the involvement of the crowd, and then spiritual level. I mean, the grateful. Dead works on so many levels. How does that relate to Judaism? Well, Judaism is a way of life. Right. When you go to temple Schule, and you pray you move your body like this back and forth. Why do you do that? Why why do you move like this when you're praying? Did you ever ask that question? Well, here's what I can tell you. If you believe as I do that, we are comprised of a physical body, which is an animal, and then a soul, which is a call it a light of energy that resides inside of each of us. It takes one hundred sixty five muscles to stand perfectly straight. But you're never really still. And so you're always moving. So if there's a vibration to the universe universes vibrating with something spirituality when you're moving you're getting into. To that spiritual vibration, and when you dance to the Grateful Dead. Same thing have you ever seen really Jewish moments dead show like ever seen people getting together? It's like time to Dublin Maariv or some oh, absolutely RIA. Oh, yeah. I've seen that absolutely dominant yet certain cities more than others. Pittsburgh, of course, for sure LA for sure New York there used to be a bus that would travel around for years. We'd see it at all. These shows we go to you know, ten twenty shows a year called says. Assess assess shallow big huge bus. Right. And on the side. It would be dressed like a Grateful Dead. Was you know of dead bears and everything owes Sachar alone. I mean, and it was what it was her eighty guys. It was you know, says is peace, right? He's sociologically. The Grateful Dead has such a Jewish. Aside from the spirituality part of it. Why there's so many Jews who are dead heads. Why is that? I mean, we can we can look into that. But I give you my reasons an Icee, it's the spirituality of it. I think jus by definition by default seek spirituality now most times or many times, they don't find it in Judaism itself, and they look elsewhere. And I don't mean religiously they may look elsewhere secularly like like their jobs, you know, they may find that spirituality there are making money or to me. Everybody should have some spirituality. I believe in balance. And if you're not finding it in Judaism, so be it. But you should find it somewhere. If you only believe in the void. I think that's that's a problem. I I'm not judging. I'm saying it's a problem for you. I think you you're missing out. I think you don't if you don't see it, you're you're you're cheating yourself. How if you really really wanna know about Judaism Komi? I mean, that's the only early. We'll talk to you about. Yeah. Jay, we talked a lot about drinking bourbon, scotch whisky all sorts of things on this show. But at the end of the day wine wine is is your basic that that's that's what we all need. We all love it. And from South Africa comes on orthodox unique take on kosher wines. It's perfect for your Seder. You're simply your Shabbat meal your dinner table any night of the week any month of the year. Unorthodox comes from his on V wind farm which dates back to the seventeenth century. The farm is nestled on the southeastern slopes of the parl mountains, the vineyards enjoy a superb tech wire which captures the delicacy and flavor of both red and white grapes. Alight you by Soviet Blunk Janine Bank or merlot cabernet sauvignon Bordeaux type blend. The winds are all metal Shaw kosher for Passover, and they're certified kosher by the orthodox union and the Cape Beth debts, you've got South African cautious and worldwide respected. We also give it our hash. The unorthodox northern nuts for being delicious. You can get the wine at all good wine stores in the northeast mid Atlantic or floor. You can check your local listings, so before you head out would unorthodox wines dot com and find out which of my local wine stores will have this wine and for a limited time period. You can go to bitterly dot com slash unorthodox for free shipping on all orders. That's bitty dot com slash north of wine by the wine. Raise a glass, turn on your favorite podcast and have. Some of you may remember that a few weeks back. We started talking about how Leo has no middle name in English very said that if he's going to pass as an American he's going to assimilate he really needs to be L, something Leib. And so that we threw it to you guys. What do you think his middle name should be and you sent many many answers? And but how how are we going to decide we're in the throes of March madness? Even though it's April. Now, it's parents still going on Duke law. So I no longer pay. Attention. Just kidding. I never paid attention. But we're doing like a bracket style tournament for people to vote on what Liles middle name should be. So once you hear this episode go to our Facebook group. Join it if you're not ready in it, you'll find a link to the first round of voting into basically, it's fashioned like a real tournament. So you have the first round is open until Sunday from Thursday to Sunday vote on the first round. And then it does all the time relations have to say I recused myself year. I have not looked at. Any of this? So I wanna be wanna be impartial. This is this is the real deal here. Basically after that, there's a second round where we, you know. Dragging starts on Sunday on Sunday and then closes right before Tuesday when we record and then you have like elite eight stuff like that can is the the what the Shuara seven seven. We have the sheet sixteen on next steps talk about until we'll like we're going to really, you know, I'm gonna vote only gonna once I'll go onto Facebook s said, and I will vote and so it's actually voter fraud. It's real as liberals with our voter fraud. So join the Facebook group, and you get to vote on the Elles middle name. I'm gonna guess that a lot of these suggested names are firearm related. Well, I think there's but my. It remains Liel liebowitz liebowitz middle name is actually just your phone them. Hyphenated liebowitz Stokely Elliott Lieb. That's one way that you can contribute and and an ad to add to the our Mojo a couple more ways. Go rate us on itunes. We haven't talked about that in a while. But going and giving us a good rating with good right up. Does kick us higher in various mysterious algorithm. Russian KGB, China wincing algorithms help help people find us, which is great another that you can do to be super involved at the premium level is a share with us your story of Jewish names in your family names. Name changes first names last names. Why did you end up name Scott? When grandpa was saw why did you end up named skull Saul? When grappa was Scott was your family's name changed at Ellis Island or elsewhere. Or at the courthouse in Baltimore. Call us nine one four five seven four eight six nine we are doing an episode on Jewish names in just a couple of weeks. And we want to give a last chance for you guys to get involved. Try to keep your message under a minute. We've discovered by having this listener line that we are low quashes people. Often people will begin by saying I'm gonna keep this under minute and three and a half minutes later. I don't have a comment. I have a really long comment. People practice at first and then keep it under sixty seconds. Or what you do at at the big three minutes callback with the sixty second version and ask yourself. What other podcasts lets you name a host? No, the no other guests. And then if you want the super this is in ascending order of closeness to us right vote for Liles name rate us, give us your name story for our name episode nine one four five seven four eight six nine, and then if you actually want to grasp my hand and give it a hearty pumping handshake. You can come see me April eleventh at Smith College where I will be giving a talk titled the Jew and the podcast. You can find me on Smith colleges website, or you could just know that if you it Smith College on April eleventh there, I will be April twenty eighth I'll be at one day university in New York City go to one day, you dot com and find out about mytalk American Jews colon. Where are we now were in New York City and then city complaining about bagels? That's right. Ed Morales would we may thirtieth? I will be at Hebrew colleges storytelling gala. Go to Hebrew, college dot EDU and find out more about that muzzle. Toffs I'm going to start with the mazal tov for AL Polski. He's a grad student the university of Ottawa. He's a huge fan weekly listener of our show, and he has been chosen to present an essay that he wrote on on Jewish custom Jewish game at the on campus symposium, and he actually was going to be traveling to nearby me. But I couldn't see him. But he said, let's get together and have coffee, and I would have loved to do that. But it turned out that I was not going to be available. But I wanted to give a mazal tov for being selected to favor Jewish. Custom is writing to us telling us what's up with your life. Yeah. And and all. Me we think great things are in store for you of cement of what else do we have? We have a really really big one. As I understand it. We have a 'cascade of continuity Jewish. Well, I wanna start out with the out to the teens temple Shari to Philo Israel in New Jersey. I spent the evening with them few weeks ago, and they were just amazing. And so smart and took thoughtful about their Jewish identity in a way that I and I told them was just so not when I was their age and part of it is because the, you know, the world is changing a bit, and they sort of have to be, but they were just so smart. And I just wanted to think everyone who who who brought me out there, are you would you say the future they are the future. If I think if you teach them, well, you can and let them very lead the way, they don't really do drugs anymore. Do they know they just vape and play fortnight they've been fortnight? These guys aren't very we've a big big big molotov to Molly. And her husband, Nick Hagen, obviously, Molly as the food network personality, and friend of the show and frequent guests they had their first baby. Bernadette Rosemary gay Hagen. She was born on March thirtieth. And if you fall Mahlon Instagram, you sort of saw a lot of the lead up to you know, she was doing a lot of food prep. So like her she has several freezer stocked with food or ready. He was nesting. She has Passover set, and it's in the freezer intimating. It was really fun to watch. And it's so exciting volley, dick, we're so happy for mazal tov, we've another baby related mazal tov in from the listener line Allen from park, Illinois. And I wanted wish hardy muzzle of to Kenny whose recent contributor to the unorthodox food episode. Leeann her husband, you're she her welcomed BB curl Monday. So a muzzle tough to them and to big brother max Lee Kinney was at tablets food event at the early. Earlier this week, and it was like six days after she had her baby. And that is how committed she is to Jewish food. And I respect that. Did you bring the baby or was the baby baby was home? They one of the one of the great Jewish would writers out there. Mazal tov Leah. Unorthodox brought to you by tablet magazine on the web at tablet, MAG dot com. Lots of articles there, so if you like to read and you want something to read go to Tampa, Bank dot com. You can ask our newsletter by writing to unorthodox tablet, MAG dot com and putting newsletter in the subject line. We often come to you live to book us or to advertise with us, Email producer dot cross cross with a K J cross at tablet, MAG dot com. And of course, you need to wear and carry unorthodox as well could a bit dot L Y slash unorthodox short and find some north arts, but also north of onesies on Ortho mugs on Ortho pencils. Whatever else. Follow us on Instagram at north lots podcast on Twitter at unorthodox underscore pod. Join our Facebook group or you can now vote for Lee ELS middle name. Our show is produced by Josh cross. Our associate producers are Sarah Friedman ater, and no eleven in our editors Sophia Steiner ego art by Esther, our social media internet Eleazar Abrahams. Our theme music is by Gholam online at Gholam rocks dot com. Our mailbox is by Steve Barton ribbing supervision this week by rabbi Daniel code of temple sorry to feel Israel of south orange. New Jersey we come to you from Argo studios, which is Pete Buddha. Just vice presidential nominee alone. Brands.

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Dress for Success: Ep. 218

Unorthodox

1:35:11 hr | 5 months ago

Dress for Success: Ep. 218

"And every time you hear the word Jim you have to you know Radley Gregor's these guys are just so loud in my ear balls but also in my face. You're both is a great name for a band. This unorthodox universities leading Jewish podcast. I'm Mark Oppenheimer joined by my co hosts Steffi Dick Hello Happy March deputy editor of Time magazine and her subordinate senior writer. reports to the deputy editor. Liel Liebowitz you may speak. Who reports only to God happy third Israeli elections to you third times that John or one could say happy Super Tuesday. All Super Tuesday must've ordinary election. That happened on the same calendar every four years. Everything must be so quick and it's in the constitution. The first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. You guys you mean you actually know in the next election is going to be and still we all you decide. Twelve percent turnout. We can literally PLAN AHEAD FOR YEARS. And we have low turnout. Isn't that just data? Something American another one. That's on the calendar. Though it's a calendar nobody understands porn is coming. It's a baby. They say poor is coming now. I've asked this question before. I think I asked every year. Israelis use the January February calendar. Yes but we also also attached them both. Yes so I'll wait on a given day. Let's okay so right now. It is March third here if I say to someone walking down the street in Tel Aviv. Like hey what day is it in a Dr. Do they know they'll definitely get Dr Okay. They'll be like oh is the search for the eighth like you miss a couple of days but definitely within striking distance. It's not quite as good as my Canadian. Friends who are bilingual in Celsius Fahrenheit. Bsa Hurts my brain. They can just feel like they can walk the way we can say. It's about fifty five. Fairmont they can also say whatever's decrease now what Putin yes adult. So William soon. If you're secular and you're you have not been you haven't seen Roche Code as you don't know that it's switched over to Dr but it doesn't matter you know because the calendars Jewish calendar. The holidays are Jewish holiday. So you move in from one to another so you know. Oh we're moving from Dr to Nissan kind of like teasha above. What does that on the night of like I mean that is just calling holidays by their days? That's right it's November. Twenty six giving actually Thanksgiving changes Thursday. Those stories but Saint Patrick's Day is always and I was like thirty seven before I do this March seventeenth. Isn't that interesting? That it's the Mush Seventeenth March seventeenth the snow. But you never know what day Christmas. A Long Time. I thought Christmas was like a Tuesday. In December that Jewish bubble burst in a DR? You've given Tuesday Tuesday away. Let me press a little bit deeper here. You're like well but it's the Jewish but the thing is secular Israelis don't know or care about they've heard of tissue above but they don't observe it at all. They observe observed around them. First of all just by virtue of every single restaurant being closed. Yes you kind of observe it in. No it's around all the newspapers we don't op eds about this. This tissue above. It's important to remember that we should hate one another. It's so the way that I know that removing towards Saint Patrick's Day because all of the pubs in New England are just putting a beer. Even though it's not my holiday I just I can't escape it. That's the way it is with Israel and on above it was like the second night we got there. We were like. Oh my God. We're not GONNA have anywhere to go into these restaurants. They open but they get a fine but they decide. It's worth it. You know the trendier restaurants as toward the fine because they get too much business because no one no one else can go to any other restaurants. Okay let's who's who's on the shows we us. Our show is in bad porn inflected. This week we're going to have a carnival. Esca conversation with fashion world icon Isaac Mizrahi. And we're going to talk with Semipalatinsk in higher who are the sisters behind the frock? Nyc A company that offers high end modest clothing for the religious but fashion forward women's sneeze in style is world. We're also going to talk with. Rabbi Ari lamb who was going to give a quirky alternative reading an ultra reading if you will of poem explaining why this holiday ain't exactly what you thought. It was but first before you do any of that. We have to have the ritual presentation of the gifts Leona we've each been carrying around a gift. We've been meaning to give to the other Dr. I finally put it in my backpack this morning before I got on the train. And this is what it is this thing of great beauty beautiful color photograph. You know three five or so four by six of a beautiful feline creature. I think it's called a cat. I believe so. It's sort of a golden colored cat. Lying Ba- lulling happily the Belgians of the animal world. And it's in a frame of gold sequence sparkly frame. What do you think this is Leo? I'm presenting it to you. I am so baffled by this Catholic away not marks cat and this is not something that mark created correct because it would be very very rude if market view. A picture of a cat and me correct so I think this is something that someone gave you along various routes across the country byways yes the highways someone gave this to you and said give this to Leo. That is where I end because I don't get the cat connection. Why would anyone ever do that? Still offended or five thousand percent feelings are very hard correct. Grace came up to me. You know who this is. Why saying no. This cat handed me this. She was with her mother. They were lovely wonderful people. They came up to me after my great event in Wia missing the JC of greater reading Pennsylvania and had to said. Would you please give this to Leo? It is a picture. A photograph of our cat. Grace said Tevi Leo and this is the cat she named after you. I mean Middle Name Anyway. L. E. L. I now pronounce you the only acceptable cat in all Katom. This is a New Orleans through cat and I will cherish your golden photograph. This is the high priest upon my mental. I what I get from people is Mrs being sent to me. I won't take more pictures of cats enough cats. I get nothing right and I would like to say something. Something right now is it. Is it a quarter a shirt for my status as the Corduroy Rav listeners? That's what I want if you're so inclined since Corey. Rav a corridor assure size media for his commission quarterback on this podcast. Or is that? Just like your doff. Every quarter arrive So I went to the Y. You to the Shiva University Sephora Sale. Which is the amazing sale that the students put out once a year to sell amazing. You know books. There was a very fine swag section this year and among the swag section. I noticed the falling shirt which I think kind of incorporates a lot of of your religious spiritual ability to read it. It's a purple shirt. Stephanie what is what does it say. Nice Jersey to love is bread. Love deep cut to the Breslau Verhaas ID community. Who's buying that shirt? Besides you for Mar Wrestler Causes People stoned out of their minds is the answer. Which frequently is kind of the same thing? The great thing about the shirt. And thank you Leo. The great shirt is when I wear it. Nine hundred ninety nine point one thousand will walk by and not not. My shirt and one person will stop me break. Dude AWESOME SHIRT. I like the UCF thousand people in new haven. One person would be like I would like to marry you. Thank you I will. I as we discussed earlier. You said they don't have a present for me. They didn't have a size medium. I note that it's a size ex ex. L Sheepish X. Excel so it's like the size no half half large in. It's excellent for small men and I I have to say no one brought me anything. So thank you both. It's been really great podcast listeners. Please step up. I need a corduroy shirt. Stephanie needs something to make her feel like she belongs. But seventy what's going on in your life nothing nothing. We had a great event in Naples mark and I finally hit the road. The two of us and we had like a great thing. Going on Bob Bank off the former New Yorker cartoon editor was rather speaker is very fun. It's GonNa come on the show. It was wonderful that reminds. I need to buy that. Mug that the Moses Cartoon From The New Yorker the shows in parting the Red Sea and people are like. He's all right. I just wish she was a little more pro. Israel favorite thing. Speaking of of media figures the New York Times ran an article this week on that. They've probably run before and that they could have run years ago but they're finally catching up that there are women who perform ritual circumcisions as the gentiles. Say they're female. Moyle who is in the Hellas Front and Center Center is David Walter. Oppenheimer's Moyle my son's MOYLE. Emily Blake Dr Lake former guest on our show on Unorthodox and she gets some love from the New York Times Also in media consumption diet this week I want to remind listeners. And the J. Crew that I've been watching the TV show the reboot on Hulu of high fidelity. You're all assigned to go watch the original movie with John Cusak. We're going to be discussing it in a couple of weeks and to our listeners. Out there who are obsessive at TV shows. No we have not gotten to hunters yet. We have live. You're very excited. Because he got like seven thousand eight hundred three messages on facebook. Have you watched this? It's about Nazis like we. We understand it's just you know life is short. The Phase Rooker was interesting this week though. That was the thing our listeners were obsessed with. What was the thing that kind of got our attention in the facebook group? Another thing that roiled our facebook group which is one of my favorite places on the Internet was a place it is a. It's a place on the Internet where the articles called. Does religion influence your choice of pet? An unusual new study examined the link between religious views and pet ownership. And we find what it says here about the Jays Jews the second lowest percentage of pet owners aren't exactly feeling friendly. None in the survey owned a cat but sixty two percent owned dogs. Jews were also more likely than other groups to only bird or a small mammal and least likely to have fish so I don't know what to extrapolate from this bizarre survey of like thirty five people. Then you read the bottom line and like all literally all of these services like amount of Jews actually surveyed four four four four Jews in Minnesota fish owners are producers created his own poll of more scientific poll in the facebook group and got fifteen times the number of actual live Jews to respond than the other for cockpits. I'll tell you the ranking what say about pedals from the bottom or the top. The top one animal dog wins a good book. F- A cat goes second species not my pet. Bring into you cats. Pets. Ill is number three Good no pets. But not you is number four fishes five some other non-free thing than some other furry thing then finally some other combination of a large non-human menagerie. So this is great. We have like a nice sample size here. I think we should take this to like peer review at this point. What I love about this is there was a survey. They got coverage in the Minnesota newspaper. That surveyed thirty two humans. We got two hundred fifty Ju- responses in like what you can speak. It's more like five hundred. We did they. They definitely thirty two. I just made that number somebody one of our listeners. Hey guys it's Josh. Our producer one of our listeners went in and looked at the data that they Minnesota study used. The whole poll is like seven hundred people and thirty two Jews were in there so they got thirty two JEWS IN THEIR ENTIRE POLL. And we got five hundred. We basically are a leading Jewish research. Think-tank we'll take your foundation grant money now please. We are the leading explicatives Jewish trends in the world moving onto news of the Jews in the world other trends. Apparently Belgium's out the only place where they put offensive anti Semitic caricatures in their carnivals. There's a carnival float in Spain that featured Nazi uniforms and trains with Crematoria and Brazilian carnival. Recently featured costumes with swastikas and a local Jewish leader of course left to defend it as they always do and this is one of the most disturbing things is wherever they have anti Semitic parades. There's some poor sod local Jews like no my city's not anti Semitic. They're really nice to me. They haven't killed me and the parade is meant in good fun and in some ways like what it is to be an American Jew. I think is to be able to say no. We don't do. We're not cowering these the Corbin apologists or the Belgium apologised whatever and I. It's it's when we see anti Semitism we can say. Yep THAT'S ANTISEMITIC. Might not be the end of the world might not be Auschwitz. But let's call it for carnival about Ashley. I'm celebrating my own carnival and I'm having a float to celebrate sixty seven percent unemployment. Hey Spain I think people need to get a little more creative like I know we say. Never forget but like pick a new joke. Get a new costume. Get a little bit more creative. You want a subtler anti Semitic Mr Hall of costume is you. I mean it's so stupid. It's so easy to just be more creative hateful costume have to be about us. It's got to be more than just a little mustache armband. You know what I'm saying like Spain. What the flip like you WanNa do something Jewish you have the inquisition. It's literally your thing you did it to the fan it like it is you enter. This culture would vetted this from the Germans throng with you here in America the This is definitely my favorite news the headline this week the hot pockets era. Scott five months in the emissions scandal so you remember the admission scandal where Don Parents of dumb children were buying their way into mediocre. University are no Jews had been involved so we saw we thought it was a Jew. Free skin color crime. That had nothing to do with us. Dump Gentile Dump Gentle Dental writing checks Well no we couldn't dodge this one. Michelle janavs heiress to the hot pockets. Fortune got sentenced to five months in prison and has to pay a fine of three hundred thousand dollars paid somebody to fix her daughters. Act Scores so the kid can go to USC University of Southern California as a fake beach volleyball player. When I read that I nine times way overweight. You got it is a fake beach volleyball dot even a fake rower bass or volleyball player. They play on fake beaches. Extreme Frisbee was taken so because I'm professionally obligated to find out if anyone with ethnic ish last name is a Jew Genomics Jones. I'm GONNA coming to Google hot pockets. I'm going to find out about the use of the hot pockets. Fortune and it turns out like her dad was a Persian Jew who thought let's stuff food inside little crusty things and he made a trillion dollars. She's the beneficiary that was his genius. He was that smart Ange and dumbed down a little and she couldn't even think of her own microwaveable treat and just inherited his money and bought her daughters way into. Ucf just say that we hear a lot about asking normativity. And I like this person Jewish reputation. It's not just going to jail. It is like it is not just people and women can do. It's forty yeah. We'll show you also congrats to the Little Tarantino son of Quentin Tarantino. Daniela pick Israeli supermodel. Because all models have to be referred to a supermodel there are no ordinary models right. He had his Bris and his name was revealed as Leo. Which is my starbucks name in this country so I love it my American persona. I think it's very cute. They say he was named for picks maternal grandfather Ari Sham or an Ari is lying in Hebron learning. All of this I think from the Daily Mail or something like that and Ari Means Lion. Leo is lying I like it. I think it's very cute. Leo Tarantino the Imagine Years From now Israeli Prime Minister Leo Tarantino said. Yesterday it's great. It's an amazing cultural amalgam. I liken joke but like that's not joking at Donald Trump can be like why would why would they joke about something you're Israel at your Little Tarantino? He's famous there. Yeah like he'd have a leg up by the time he's thirty years old he'll be a member of Knesset would have an amazing Army career. Your sports update. Which if you like to give us the important sports update for this week. The U Sheva University. Men's basketball team is headed to the NC Double A. Tournament Backup Vision Three Parham but we're having a Hanukkah miracle So Leah what's what's the latest with with the team so I thought it'd be really cool to give a ring to Elliott Steinmetz the legendary coach. Who took this team across the Sea Bliss Championship doing and went all the way to the NCAA tournament and coach time? It's really had some words of wisdom. You called him. Oh yes not a championship win by bracket it's pretty tough. I gave him a call to hear some words of wisdom from the world's leading Jewish coach. Halas coach Elliott Steinmetz. You are a hero of the Jewish people. What an achievement muzzled. Oh I wouldn't have to work your of average I have a million questions for you but first of all your players play with Yarmulke Zahn. Is there like a Sports Yarmulke? Is it like a special design that is more economic or it's better on the head during games guys wear them. There's no special secret to it. They really Kinda choose. Whatever they're comfortable with I don't I don't think I've ever seen anything. That's made specifically for sports although maybe it doesn't send you to pursue but I I think the Guy Kinda just choose. Whatever their employer you know. I. I know a lot of basketball teams have plays and some of the plays have names now. Someone told me that you have a play called the warrior. I'm wondering are we talking? Judah maccabee Ariel Sharon. What tell me a little bit about that play? Who's named after? Oh that's funny. I actually do anything. Jewish believe it or not. It's a play we actually stolen from the Culprit State Warriors. When we did it though we did laugh at the fact that you know obviously the Maccabi that we did laugh at the coincidence find it but it was not named for anything other than the fact that he picking the warriors so on the slightly more serious note. You're playing out there and I think it's not an exaggeration to say that you have really become one of the very very few things in Jewish life on which Jews of all spectrums of religious observance political ideology. What have you can completely agree. I mean the pride that people take in the Orthodox and Reform Jews people from everywhere is just immense. This is this something that enter your considerations when you play you think to yourself when you take the court like we are now representing the entirety of the Jewish people or do you just try not to think about it and just win a basketball game. It's definitely something we've talked about. You know our guys saw a couple years ago when we had to run tournament for the first time in school history. We were hearing people. World are kind of made up of all different kids from different diverse backgrounds within the Jewish religion and it is something that I think we think about something guys take a lot of pride in 'cause we do hear from people you know a lot of feedback from people on what they feel about the team. And what and what? We're accomplishing definitely something. That we take the heart and the responsibility everything seriously when you prepare to go up and take the court. Is there like a special prayer? Is there a special little Var Torah that someone gives pretty much like every other team boy? Scout pre-game conversation. The one unique thing would be you know we have a number of our players like going to the locker room about two minutes earlier than we usually do and they have a little more. Throw that one of our players in the rabbinic program given for each game. That's usually a message. But you know certainly pertains off into the competition or a game or something regarding athletic which I think is a nice touch and something that certainly unique about university coach. I think it's no exaggeration to say that the entirety of Jews everywhere throughout history. Thank you and a rooting for you. Thank you so much and finally an obituary affair well this week. Michael Hurt's died. You don't know his name but you know his work. You've seen his subway map. He is the guy who designed the iconic map of the New York underground of the New York subway system. This is a new segment. We're calling like this week in emails from uncle. Myron but T. W. I. E. UM we'll call it here. Who DIED? Can you believe this way man assigned to map for the subway? But Anyway Michael will miss you. I Look I look at your creation. Basically every day. The subway doesn't work but you map still does. It's so we wanted to get crazy. And who's crazier in a good way designer author and fashion icon Isaac Mizrahi? He dropped by and talk to us about growing up in flatbush designing clothes and so much more. Have a listen. I am here with designer. Author and Fashion World ICON ISAAC MIZRAHI. Welcome to the world's leading Jewish podcast. I so great to be here. My favorite thing about you I have to say is your name. Because there's no better Jewish name than Isaac Mizrahi. It's true right. I also think that I was talking to a friend of mine the other day about having a name that kind of stands out a little bit like Isaac because people don't necessarily forget that name as easily you know so and I grew up liking it too you know. Sometimes you hear from people that they hate their name when their kids and then they grow to like it. But I loved my name from the minute I had it and reading your excellent memoir. I am which is not just like a celebrity memoirs actually. I'm very very good. Thank you so much your mother is Sarah. Yeah she had you at what thirty four thirty four and a half years almost thirty five years old she was she saw herself as biblical SARS right. Yeah she could have been but it was not lost on us. This idea that Isaac was Begat from Sarah Right And that she was older and in those days that was like practically ninety nine hundred sixty one when I was born. Doctors warned her that it was dangerous to be pregnant at such an old age. I know it's crazy but it's true to the world knows you as high energy creative force. I if you turn on the TV in the last decade you are on it no matter what it is whether it's project runway or everyone sort of knows talk show yes seven years but you know. I imagine that that vivacious wasn't necessarily always appreciated particularly in the Brooklyn Syrian Jewish community. In which you were raised no. It was not appreciated. It was it was reviled. Actually you know And on a level that I don't think anyone would be able to conceive right now you know Bullying and criticism on levels that you would find shocking you know like bullying from Russia buys you know like not just my kit. The kids in my class like that was easy but when elders start to kind of Penn you into this situation it's hard and the thing is like you know. I consider myself lucky because I was always very resilient and I somehow was able to kind of call upon faculties like I was able to defend myself verbally. I always think that's why I'm good with words because of Billy's in my early life and I was always able to come back with something you know made me very sharp-tongued also my mother was not the least sharp-tongued person in the world. She had a very cost it kind of sense of humor and wit so within this somewhat insular pretty homogeneous community. Your family already was a little bit of a of a haven. Yes well it was a anomalous you know like in the book I go into. You know this idea that I started doing female impersonations when I was like eight years old. Something and that was not exactly that. Didn't let's put it this way. That did not bring like pride and family. It sort of did the opposite. You know like I knew. My parents were mortified by this but to their advantage to their to their credit. They didn't exactly stop me from doing such you know like they didn't encourage me but they did. They were very good at looking away. You know and that's how I perceived it I perceived as them looking away and I think that's like I've been working on stage a lot recently. I've been doing this nightclub act and but more and more I mean I've been doing it for years. You know like that's my thing. I really liked to sing and I like to tell stories and I like nightclubs but there is a certain amount of shame associated with that. I think because of my early life and doing those impersonations you know in the lobby of Schule. Doing Shirley Bassey in the lobby of Schule. It wasn't appreciated. It was it was really like kind of source of shame for the family I think. You know the Syrian Jewish community is so specific. It's not really like any other community and I think a lot of our listeners. Know that they're Syrian Jews. And maybe if you've been to deal New Jersey you know that but can you tell us a little bit about the community in which you were raised. It's so specific like you said it's so different from other Jewish communities you know first of all it's Syrian Jews. It's not Arabic. Jus It's not Lebanese and Syrian Jews or Egyptian and Lebanese and syringes. It is Syrian Jews. Right it's that insular. Like if you're not a Syrian Jew. You're just not. And if you're not a Syrian Jews. You're not allowed to marry another kind of Jew. You not allowed to marry a Nash. Kazakh Jew you're not allowed to marry an Egyptian. It's a crazy crazy thing. I mean they do people do but if you're gay and you're not GonNa get married. You are basically persona non grata if you're not going to procreate and give your parent's grandchildren their grandchildren. Syrian Syrian purebreds Syrian grandchildren than your nothing. I mean I really mean it. I'm sorry but that was just how we were brought up and my mom who is ninety two right you know she was. I keep using the word anomalous but she was in the community in that she was extremely well educated and well read. She loves to read and that is not encouraged in the community. They don't encourage reading in that in that Syrian Jewish community. Another crazy thing that sets it apart from Jews because Jews like reading you know not so in the community maybe now this generation but my mom was educated and she was beautiful and she waited till very late to get married. She got married thirty right which is a hundred in that community. Well maybe not in the most current day maybe now they get married at twenty. You know but when I was a kid if you weren't married by the age of sixteen you're an old maid right. I was going to say about my mom right that she was educated and she understood what was going on in the wider world and sometimes she was very nurturing to me in that way because she was cultured and advanced and progressive. And other times I would have to say most times. She aired on the side of like traditional and she aired on the side of hammering away at this idea that unless you procreate your worthless she still does like even when I see her now at ninety two. She's kind of hardened into this woman who just shows you pictures of her her grandchildren and great grandchildren and she just talks. But that's all she talks about. Now there's no changing the subject. And so like that's heartbreaking. You know it's heartbreaking. Because I love her and she loves me but she isn't able just based on who she is from her early exposure and the early sort of what brainwashing and training. She is unable to accept one hundred percent who? I am or even eighty percent who I am. She still resisting and she's still sort of hard. Selling this idea that I need to be in that community and close to my sisters and somehow figuring out how to have children. I think she would be okay with me and Arnold having kids you know in some way. I think she'd be okay with that and we have decided not to. It's funny right like what how people can rationalize or soften disappointment. But it's interesting. Because she is so proud of your success right and I imagine is the community because even when people leave a community and then they become famous. I feel like people are saying. Like Oh Isaac. He's one of us. He comes from mid would do they. Do you think that happens. I think you know I think that happens. Yeah it's insane because if you read the book it does charge them with a great deal of what I'm talking about now about the education thing about the misogyny about the the the blindness to you know any kind of like sexuality other than Heterosexuality Right. It's blind completely blind still like if you're gay you have to go away. You know I still. You know it's a crazy thing that are just. There is no section for them in the Schule to like sit together or be together or or just even assimilate there's no assimilation with gay people and there is a bit of rancor a bit of anger that. I've kept you know. I was very angry in my twenties and thirties about it and then I kind of actually writing. The book helped me just kind of go. Okay well this is just who they are and live and let live. I guess you know at least from my end and so I think the book is framed very elegantly and very gentlemanly and now I look back at it and I think you know what that might have been just a little bit more anger a little bit more rancor and my mother reading the book which. I think this is probably the tenth or eleventh reading. She's done and she loves it. Is I think hilarious. You know because I do expose things about her about the community but she said Oh you know the community and the achiever. They probably won't like this too much you know and I guess she's right. I got one or two letters from people in the community. Saying that's just not a fair assessment. Except they didn't live my life the people who are writing to me. You know what I mean. So it's like if they think it's unfair then they should write a book about it see mentioned Schule and one of the things I loved that Schumer sort of like this place pageantry for the women and it seems like a really formative place for you in terms of style and flair. Yes and I talk about that in the book. Also crazy reversal. From what Schule is supposed to be right? Like Shula's not supposed to be a place where you notice like tight low-cut dresses and high heels right and big hair unless it's a shuttle but shuttles not supposed to be beautiful shuttles as opposed to the opposite thing. Which is this supposed to detract? Attention and detract kind of sexual any kind of sexual tension. That's what a shuttle is for as far as I'm concerned and I'm sorry but that's the basis of the thinking so you tell me that shuttles are supposed to be pretty. I think like I just don't believe you because that's not what I was taught you know and also if you say oh homosexuality is a whole bunch of space. And they're in the religions there really isn't. I mean if you go to the rabbinical studies if you go to the most like sort of pure pure pure thinking your shavers. They will tell you that you're supposed to throw stones homosexuals and they will still tell you that. So have you been able to re imagine a Jewish identity for yourself? You know culturally in New York City. I feel very very Jewish. I feel extremely sort of Fiercely Jewish and. I'm not exactly sure this. This might come across as racist something but I think the attributes that I sort of resonate with that that that I seem to love our this thing about education. They love education. They read their heads off. You know if it weren't for the Jews the world would have no great art right because there's such great collectors and curators and all through that whole Nazi thing. The Nazis tried to disband and destroy all the collections. And they couldn't you know. Think about like European art. What would have happened without the? I mean like how that would have seemed without all those incredible collections. Those Jews collected art. You know I mean that. Go on and you can criticize that and you can come to me if you want but I can defend it. I can defend it. So those things about like their love and passion for the Arts in their love and passion for Education and question asking that was one thing that stuck with me from yeshiva was that you cannot just accept things at face value. You must ask questions right. You're always asking questions so that kind of skepticism. I Adore which is so ironic because that's not applied to people who are different in your in your case. No and the skepticism in the Syrian community is looked upon as a real weakness right like skepticism is not to be tolerated right. I think that classically Judaism is about skepticism. It's about not knowing where the hell you're going nor like even believing one hundred percent where you came from because you know history just writes itself after a certain amount of time so the skepticism about your pass the skepticism about your future. That's what being Jewish is to me and it's a beautiful beautiful trade. It's it's like you know like dogs that are bred like collies they have certain breeding in them for hundreds of years to herd sheep or something a juice place. The breeding of Jew is not to believe a word they are told and never to feel safe in one particular spot or another and then that you know what I'm talking about respect and I love that I think that is modern. Seems to have influenced your your career. Your fashion your reinvention your ability to embrace all sorts of things no matter what the trend is. Yeah I mean you know I'll tell you I don't know exactly know what makes me into the man I am. I think it has a lot to do with the formative years at yeshiva and taking things from it and fighting madly rebelling against things. You know I do think that was a very very important part of my makeup right and I'll say this you know when I see kids now who are being raised or who have been raised in the past twenty years. There's no resistance and it's like you and you hear about people in the big corporate world taking jobs like Google or Amazon or something because of the wonderful cafeteria and the berries. The fresh served every day. Exactly right and like when the berries of bruise that morning or the breadth of the BAGELS aren't delivered. They freak out their day is ruined. You know and I feel like I don't know if maybe I am going to die. And maybe that is like my kind of work ethic and my passion something is GonNa die with me and that might just be fine. You know. And everybody's just going to be like wally. Wally like everybody's in a pod casting around watching TV all day long and you know like producing nothing. You know content. Yeah exactly no I just think about that so much like I think definitely. My work ethic came from Yeshiva. I mean that school we started at seven Flatbush. Real difference there. Oh Yeah Oh yeah messing around though. We're not kidding. We're not kidding. You Sheva flatbush. I mean we started every morning at seven thirty with prayer right with Shaklee. Then you had four hours of Hebrew studies then you had a tiny little lunch service right at the end of which you said. What does it? What does that thing at the end you bench at the Andrey ventured what is it called the name of that prayer. I don't know if there's a there's there's a prayer at the meals right and then you had four hours of studies of just you know. English studies like math and social studies and literature and stuff like that till four thirty so that is a very very very long day for a kid and then of course like I had piano lessons. I had homework. I had like a lot of stuff after school. We were just programmed on. We started the day early. We ended it late and we did stuff you know and by the way you know. I think I'm lucky for that. I think I'm lucky and I also think again that. I'm lucky I had stuff to push against. You know like resist. I really think it's important for kids to have stuff that they hate. So we're talking you just before Parham which is sort of not just Jewish Halloween but it is right. It's a federal version of holiday and great holidays. One of the really great Jewish holidays. I Love I. Did you dress up as a kid? I remember once. I dressed up as a goldfish. I made very elaborate kind of costume. That was all. It was like sort of our engine. Had these fantastic like orange oak tag scales that I actually cut out one by one instead of sewed onto the costume. It was crazy. I also remember. It was the first time I ever got drunk. Because then you're drunk and at yeshiva like at what how old twelve or something you know or eleven years old we drank and we went and got a little bit drunk and I remember not liking it. And that's the last the only and last time I've ever been drunk in. Yeah I mean. I've tried drugs here and there. That didn't really agree with me terribly. And the did agree with me but I never had any kind of addiction problems or something and I kind of always dated back. Get you sick over that. Yeah I got it out of the way because permits a time where you could. You could have been you right. You could dress up dress however you want. And that's sort of accepted. Yeah I mean I have to say one thing you. Sheva flatbush where the carnival was that I went to in the poem celebration was dresses a Goldfish. It wasn't exactly. It was sort of frowned upon to come as anything but Ashby. Roche or or or something you know like they will like a goldfish. What is that. Where did that come from? So I mean yes or a busy supposed to be about dressing up but if you can keep it to one of four costumes. We'll be happy you know. I'm not really a costume guy. Even Halloween though I love Halloween. Halloween is one of my favorite days. Only because it means that the summer is finally over and I don't love summer you know so but I never dress up. I have never done my face in drag. I have never done makeup on my face. Except when I was a little boy and I wanted to experiment with you know and I remember that specifically it was once I tried my mother's makeup and I showed up at dinner wearing like you know I thought I had washed it off but it was literally you know. Makeup doesn't wash off right and everybody was sitting there. Eating going is makeup but I was literally eight years older ten years old but I never tried only because I'm not exactly sure I think this is because I'm my mother's son but we are extremely critical about physical beauty and clothes and grooming and stuff. So I know just inherently that I would not be a beautiful girl right there. Are CERTAIN DRAG QUEENS? Who are so beautiful in costume dragged. I don't think I would be a great beauty. I think it would look just kind of like a travesty. You know and these words by the way now right like you when you say the word travesty or figure flaw or something or fat or little or something. You can't really use words like that and I am thrilled so thrilled. It's like the end of something like we're going to stop that but when I was a kid. That's all that we talked about. You know like fat people and send people that I was a kid I was. I was very big and I lost a good deal of weight like almost one hundred pounds when I was a teenager. So it's interesting because I feel like people use Halloween or even permit to express themselves through close. But you actually get to do that all the time. That's your day job so it's probably not the same release that it is for other people and also being so incredibly critical so kind of detail oriented so perfection oriented. I like a certain amount of very very very high quality artifice. You know like a good wig. Is Everything Human Hair? Someone styling it for weeks and then it goes on. Someone's and it's really you know or like a like a body. Marlene Dietrich in funding. You know thing that she had it was amazing or you know what I'm saying like any kind of body shaper. Mr Pearl makes those courses. I love right but I don't know like there's something about it. That's really funny. Of course it's all about humor. I think if you have the humor but for me I think I take it as subject so seriously the quality of the artifice right like the quality of the embroidery is all. What it's about not just the sparkle. Then you have to go and look at the actual thing itself and unless like comes from Les Sasha something or you know some incredible beating facility in India. I don't need it I would rather be playing especially on me. You know what I mean like. I dress in black all the time because I don't know it's too much of a fuss to be that perfect with your hair coughed and your makeup perfect and your body and the right kind of shape or diet or whatever it is you know what I mean. So being critical being self critical Manage to look this way easily insured and like my hair like this look great. Thank you but I don't really go the costume thing. If if anything like I have a kilt and Tam me no like I have. Maybe do something ethic like some crazy old idea of ethnic dress. That would be great to me. You know I used to do a little kilt thing. So we're kind of your listeners. Find you now. Like what are you up to? While these days. I am at the Cafe Carlyle which is incredible. I'm only there for another week. But it's a great show and appeared there intermittently through the year mostly this time. This is my residence with Pete. C B Dooley. I do too and it's really what defines my life. I work on the show for so many months. I compile all of the stuff that I talk about and this music that I work on with my band starting literally over the summer. You know this particular from January. We start in like July working for the summer. I hate it and so like I'm really happy in a studio music studio. Were working but the point is that that is what really defines my life. And then we'd do. Gigs do like concerts here. And they're based on this show otherwise I'm qvc a lot you know and also I write stuff for different publications but it's hard to say and I'm working on so many different kind of entertainment business projects more than fashion. I feel like I'm transitioning from fashion into show business that so everywhere is the every every right. Thank you so much. That was really fun and happy. Happy a free looking up drink. Drink drink friends. If you care about Israel it's been a pretty busy week. There's been the APEC Convention for those of you that there's been the latest round of Israeli elections for those your into that huge amount to keep up with and it can be easier to forget the deeper questions the philosophical underpinnings that we ask ourselves when we think about Israel when we think about Zionism what it would mean for Israel to be secure and Jewish and democratic these issues transcend any one election cycle. They aren't left-wing questions. They aren't right wing questions. They are at the heart of what Israel is of all political. Stripes have been debating ever since nineteen forty eight when they sat down to write the Jewish state's declaration of independence. There is a new completely free online course from the ticket refunds. That gets behind all of those issues. It's taught by eminent historian. Martin Kramer and it's called declaring Israel's independence. It is a sweeping study of the most dramatic days of nineteen forty eight when in the middle of a war. Israel's founders had the foresight and resolved to tackle the deepest questions Zion statecraft as they wrote Israel's declaration of Independence so look what are you waiting for? You will watch this course. You will argue with it. You will enjoy it. You will learn from it and you may argue with it. That's all great. The course is free. All you have to lose is your ignorance and all you have to gain is a lot of knowledge and a lot of fun good a declaration dot Tikva Fund dot org slash tablet Tikva in Tikva Fund is T. V. Two Declaration Dot Tikva Fund Dot. Org slash tablet get started on that journey right now go Kubo. Lotta holidays coming up. We've got the forum. We've got the Passover we've got the Shiva's we've got the mother's Day or entering season of a lot of time where you want to look good. You don't want to be unsmooth for Shabbat you don't you don't. WanNa show up at Passover with three days of stubble. You want your Harry's razor yes you do. What if there was a fifty percent off sale happening every time you went shopping for razors? That's what it's like to be Harry's customer because they offer premium laid refills as low as two dollars each. That's up to fifty five percent off. Compared to the price of Gillette Fusion froze shield so listen we have a special offer for you. 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We're recording on the morning of Super Tuesday so we recognize that the whole world may have changed news wise presidential campaign wise etc. By the time you hear this this episode we have so much to cover. We're not going to get to the mailbox. Although last week's interviews with the democratic socialist from Mississippi and with Ruth Weiss brought in tons of great mail and voicemail and. Please keep that coming but this week. We've really gotta talk about just the crazy stuff going on in this here calendar week not least of which is pandemic Lille Europe Corona virus correspondent. What's on I grew up in Israel and I can see this with confidence. I don't think I washed my hands until I was twenty four and moved to this country like I literally don't think ever rallies didn't invent pure l. made mention. Does this like literally you just rub yourself with a little raw meat? And you're you're good to go into the sand and then buried a wonderful woman who has so many virtues but keeping calm and keeping on is not carrying on so last night. Lisa said you now must go to COSCO. I said Okay I will go to the Costco and hundred and Seventeenth Street. Costco Alliance started. Tell you the people of the island of Manhattan are not surviving. This and I'll tell you why if you wanted at the Costco yesterday to get the three pound pack of pursued o or the three wheels of breach cheese no way completely sold out shelves bare. If you wanted the twenty five pound bag of Rice Hallelujah as many as one like I was walking down the aisle and there was a woman coming. This is incredible with like three pound bag of skinny pop popcorn and one hand and a three pound bag of lump crab meat in the other and she's walking and I'm picking up flour and yeast and oil and she was looking for accidents. Wants you with what is flour and yeast make more. This is amazing. I want to go to the place where they are serving like Brienne per shudo through the somewhere on the upper west side. There's going to be just a month long key party and there's going to be like it's going to be shrimp cocktail. There's like you know what sold out of shrimp cocktails conduct. I mean I think the answer is that you should start eating trae. F- or maybe you shouldn't eat kosher. 'cause there's no trace left at eating beef is how this whole thing started. Let's not do that so this is great because I'm a quasi prepar as is like I have. Yeah you really are stuff at home like have a bug out bag like I dine tablets and solar chargers and any today refi water so for me. This is like a fantasy. I love with you generally in that. I think that every epidemic is fake. News like SARS virus. This always like well. They're not coming for me. I feel indestructible in those i. I feel they come to the Manhattan. It's right I everyone else but I'm not. None of that stuff is telling me. My people all live into their nineties. But this one is freaking me out a little bit because thoughtful people. I know have listened to podcasts. That tell them to freak out a little bit like you know people I trust. I was listening to shelter. Vidana and you know Ari Nagel a tool Dante. What doctors people with medical knowledge had no? You should freak out about this one so I thought look. I'm not at liberty as father of five to take this. That's true to to be to chill so I went to stop and shop and I was. I bought yeast. I bought bread flour. I've just couldn't feed them Hollas from. I bought a lot of peanut butter the big jars of peanut butter like the ones. You can be a young child into and Because it's David but I came home. See if we could EAT DAVID I I'll be honest. I'll be the first one to go. If we have to capable of the oddest but I get home and Ellie eleven-year-old looks at me. And it's like Dad. What are you doing so we explained very calmly. You know if we have to sort of take to the mattresses as they say in the Godfather and what she says to me she was like Dad. We if we were home for months out of school we could be a youtuber family. 'cause you know her dream is that there? Are these families that drop out of school? I think they're all Christian. Homeschooling families and make really high-end Youtube Videos. And then millions of People Watch and the family supports itself the paraphrasing pimp out their children to be home schooled youtubers and they they survive on the Youtube Dot. And I think you'RE GONNA freeze Youtube family. I think maybe a plague is not a bad. We need to play so Elliot's like data could be the knuckles lawyers one percent of you out there. No they these are. This is an Australian family with six children whose names are disco. Chance to fold blonde till the end. Yeah they have. They HAVE HIP HOP NAMES. Biggie disco chance and Nasr Four of them and their yeah blond Australian Christine's and they the kids don't go to school and they make a youtube everyday in which they do challenges like who can sit still the longest gets five hundred dollars for mom and dad. That's all they do like what you do already. It's called. It's called Parents Day pending his game. Show so my kids vision of this is they will stay home. Eat peanut butter and Kala and make youtube videos. And this will be our chance to break out the Ju- The youtubers you can make Jewish videos. Say That I'm a low key proper so we've been like slowly stocking up what I want to avoid. Is the the rush of people to whole foods like I? I can't be that's that's so we've been slowly amassing things that we can both work from home for a while. The problem is I will say the cat like I've gotten so much cat food over the past few weeks i. It's like if I can go without food for a few days like if the cat is saying that cat and we have to eat our son. You're GONNA eat your. I'm just saying hungry. Cat is something I cannot deal with. I can deal with her husband. But Hey your cat is just. That's too far. I can't what floor do you live on the fan? Let's do this early in like ninety. Okay we're out of This is a really exciting week because I think was it. The fourteenth Israeli election happened. What's going on the third Israeli election guys happened yesterday versus the worst election? Shaney then election Shlo- She just say in in in celebration of people. It was the third election in the year. It was the highest voter. Turn out since one thousand nine hundred ninety nine people realize they really matter and what they delivered as it appears right now. We're according to this in the Tuesday. Just a few hours. After the official count has ended What delivered Eze giant victory for our man prime minister bb Netanyahu who won one hundred thousand votes more than he did last time and even though he doesn't seem like he has a clear path to anything to anything quite yet the narrative in Israel and I think rightfully so is that the blue and white party sort of crash and burn and bb really electrified the base and it looks very likely that he would return to these three qual. Bb three ice cream supply in the whatever house. They live in Well I only skin like ice cream. Skim has been a big theme in this election because the Israeli expression for if at first you don't succeed try try again is promptly. She'd leader or third time. You get ice cream literally. Third election screaming every person. I know on facebook yesterday. Posted photos like ice cream in the ballot with like a huge like ice cream cone with going to still be like indicted for corruption. What's going to happen over? So many scenarios. What's his name begins March seventeenth so next week. That's sweeps week Stephanie. You and I could be citizens tomorrow if we wanted. That's there for the taking. Wow you think. Your politics are funding. Anonyna- our politics are. I am here with sisters semi Polanski and Phya Konin there the design duo behind the frock. Nyc A company that offers high end unique modest clothing. Welcome to you both. Let's start out with you introducing yourself. I am semi Ploenzke. I'm highs youngest. Sister were both from Sydney Australia. And we now live in New York in Crown Heights in Haim Hiatt Hanan. I'm the oldest by eighteen months. You guys wearing very cool. Drapey covered but very fashionable things. I'm assuming these are both from your company. Yes when you look at you like. Wow this modest dresses no. I'm looking like wow. Those girls are chic af. Describe what you're wearing right. Okay so I'm wearing What we call the Black Marrakesh. It's a gauzy summery dress with buttons. All the way down with her buttoned up. Like you know if you could see McColl's shell necklace. And I'm wearing our laid on top of our full easy pants and of open those buttons up till about mid thia would say you could see the whole ensemble of the layering look. I'm wearing out classic fracture dress. It's basically an oversized boyfriends doll. Shirtdress and wouldn't usually buy shirt-dresses. They're either too short so they usually like mini overseas and cool. And you don't want to add something mandate so we finally created our own version which covers the for those that want to wear something longer. But what's cool about it? Is You look at it? And because it's got `soft Ronnie trae fabric it's like oh it's got great silhouette that kind of folds and it looks like a really interesting piece. I you know. Look at her and to me like oh. She's so covered and like You know it's got this really cool. Cool effect likely said and so it was modest dressing. Something you guys were raised with absolutely we're daughters of rabbi and Robertson and I'll mom from the age of let's say two three addressing us in matching big floral covered addresses which was quite a standout. We grew up in. Could you beach in Australia? Which was a short shorts bikini sort of surf environment looking back into childhood? The only thing that I remember fighting that with my mom not the only but it's such a big deal. I remember always fighting about what we were wearing because she wanted us to be really covered and as young kids and teenagers. I did not in neither did Haya. No one around us was covered and it wasn't cool and I hated standing out and being different and I think that was for both of us that because drive for us to say we want to maintain our faith. But we also don't WanNa feel like we can't what we want. And that was a big impetus behind. How Design Aesthetic today right? There was no such thing as like this sort of modest fashion woman. You couldn't be cool and fashionable at the same time. There was just no way you're either at the beach being cool oil being covered wearing not literally being covered because your mom alma mater swear like a longest good pantyhose and we love. L. Parents have very forward thinking so we did want to mesh their life selling upbringing with AL creativity and they gave us a space to do that. Which was really a blessing. It's kind of interesting because the more time you spend in your city. The more recognizable Orthodox women are Ray. You see like a woman and then you see sort but maybe a bunch of daughters. And they're all wearing a denim skirt or that like stretchy material skirt that goes past their knees and they all are wearing basically the same thing in different sizes. Was it like things would just get passed out and everyone was in the same type of outfit that yeah. There wasn't many options of what to wear I want to buy. I mean definitely in New York City. There's Voss clothing supply for the Orthodox Jewish community of very similar standard modest dressing clothing. So you definitely see that here. We didn't grow up in a Jewish. Like a very high Orthodox. Jewish neighborhood like you see in New York so we didn't have as many options. I remember before like Pesach. We would literally older like all the girls from the community with moms only and should come from overseas and bring like trunk loads of clothing and everyone would go and choose like the outfits and in the beginning we thought it was amazing and after I was like a little bit older. I'm like mom I don't WanNa shop there. I don't WANNA be buying clothes. Everyone's going there. It's not even cold right. At a certain age we would go to like vintage stores. And the market's down by the beach and kind of find our own clothing and then mix and match and then like nothing would be available so then Simi would get like a piece of crochet and added to the bottom of the dress and make it look like it came that way or she designed. It didn't look directly models for our mom because she was so used to that she wasn't into fashion at all no because she didn't like it. Just it just wasn't her thing so when her two daughters are like actually we want something different. We have something else to say was like how am I going to move with this? But she didn't unreal job. Well it's interesting because you guys weren't leaving the House. And then like seeking into your miniskirts are like ripping off whatever you're taking a pair of pantyhose scandalous. So how do you guys come to start a clothing company? Fashion was always in Abha Young. When we were teenagers. We started taking people like personal shopping because people started seeing like friends. The community at we were modest but we also looked cool and different. Like Gosh how did you do that way? Whereas that from so as young adults we had a personal styling company and then we kind of drifted ways high moved to New York. I was in Ohio and then one day after a couple years we were like what are we doing? We want to be doing this and dressing ourselves and sharing what we love with other people. It was also like this bond that we had this like fire. We could do something together. We can really make something of our fashion experience. How desire our creativity and that's just it was born. That was the inspiration behind when we started. It's funny because I'm on your website. The FRANKEN DOT com. And I wear everything on this website like it's totally. It's not what you would expect for if we you know. I think people who are not religious. Haven't idea in their mind that modest dressing is restrictive. It is somehow not feminists. It is somehow not empowering but it's also very this is just so both on the trend right now right like that is the whole point of what we do. We wouldn't liberate women like us who come from a world in a community where they feel like we're supposed to look and dress a certain way and like actually you can be a self you can be heck. You could even be fashionable. And that I just the attitude is liberating nachos for us. But I think the world at lodge to be like Wow Orthodox women a smart sophisticated and they look cool to it kind of takes us out of this box that were put in. It's like well look at them. A few new not completely unaffiliated Jews who were like I kind of want to be a little bit more modest. I'm trying to find my faith. I WANNA explore sort of dressing and they were afraid of that and then a few people have reached out. I found you guys actually. There's a way to do this. I don't have to change my identity and and have to become a whole new person. I could still wear jeans. There are ways to express myself. I'm being myself and I think in a deeper perspective. I think that's how we view Al Faith as well it's not like compartmentalize if your practicing being author docs and you're not happy because you're not yourself. It's not going to be your truth and you're not going to be able to serve God in a real full way Dana. Denying parts of yourself. So we're really it's about a wholesomeness and I feel like the clothes that we make a representative of so much more. It's not just an exterior it's like your whole world can be a fusion of wine. Shouldn't have to be afraid to share that. And so if I said to you you don't look Orthodox like in my conception is that how do you feel hearing that I feel like that's a compliment? Not because I don't want to be. I'm very proud of being orthodox if you said to me. Are you wearing a wig? I'd be like yes. I'm wearing a wig. I keep Chabad I keep kosher. I'm very proud of being Jewish. I'm not afraid to say I think we just we just nature is to want to be somewhat out of the box and to be more inviting to people so if you're just classified in one box in one way then you kind of closed off to other experiences or to meeting people who are outside of that. But the fact that we don't necessarily look certain way is less limiting and I think that also means that people that have fear of what Oth- rocks is and being authorised. It's like oh it removes that fear because being ultra doesn't mean you are a foreign crazy creature 'cause a lot of people. Hey Oh you're not a woman in you know in the business field or you're not educated like a lot of people know that in a lot of people don't has been pushed back from people in the Orthodox community like how dare you have a button. Do you know how genes where ripped jeans. Yes as we definitely get pushed back in the beginning. We freaked out when we got pushback. Because it's hard to get criticism and I remember the first time I wore pair of pants under one about dresses. I want to show and I was wearing. I promise you the my address must've been like at least six feet wide. I was showing no shape. No skin covered my knees colbourne everything and or a pair of like skinny cigarette pants underneath off. Shibata got a phone call from my best friend. She's like semi people calling me. How could you have one pence to shoal? That's crazy meanwhile is looking around. I was probably by far the most modest dressed woman. No men would've cared to see that outfit because it's not that attractive at all but it was very cool and we've got a lot of pushback and then the first time we posted hiring gene on instagram regal personal messages like women crying. Like how can you be this example to our daughters? How dare you show in our community? You dressing certain way. And what are you GonNa? You know you're going to change them and you're going to influence them and they never gonna WanNa wear skirts again. A corrupt their fee was that we were corrupting. And then it took us a while to realize that we're doing this because we are still those girls that hated the way among made us dress and we have daughters and I don't want my daughters growing up saying I don't want to dress covered. I want to feel like they can just covered and still cool and still express themselves and be Jewish that we put on instagram. It's because that's what I wanNA teach my daughter. And that's what highs teaching daughter that do you think that there are young girls who are pushed out of Orthodoxy or sort of me to think that Orthodoxy isn't for them or you'd be allowing space in Orthodoxy dressing. I think it's a much bigger package when people pushed so much like I look around. I was raised where I felt much more pushed. I don't think I would have turned out the way I think. Dressing is a huge pot of it with young girls growing up other communities and I have met countless of women who completely shaved heads. Tattoos jeans did you grow up in this community because I hear an accent may bit of Yiddish and then like they did and they never had any way to express themselves or any sort of freedom and I think the modesty of the woman in certain communities can be a little bit oppressive not for everybody like some people love it and they're finding those boundaries but for certain people unfortunately it does push them away when not hit to encourage an endorsing. Take off all your clothes. Don't listen you're you're religious. That's not who is saying with saying that by allowing the space to put yourself into how you wearing you can actually hold onto both your faith and your facts right and also understanding that modesty is not just black and white. There is space to be a little bit different and putting the love into the modesty. I think it's really important. And that's what's very serious conversation. I'm supposed to be funny and I think what you're doing is really amazing. 'cause you're giving women a space to express themselves and to still keep all these values and you know abide by these traditions that are meaningful to them and then you're also introducing other women to the idea just of wearing great clothes pretty epic yet so. Nice work guys. Thank you semi Polinsky in high need for telling us about the frock. Nyc Our listeners can follow along on instagram at the frock NYC and can shop the frock NYC DOT COM and be outfitted in these amazing modest clothing. But I'm about to order once we get out of the studio thank you. This is awesome months ago. A new magazine crossed my desk. It was called flashing and it was a kosher food magazine and I had never seen anything like it's beautiful. It's sharply designed an I love it and I'm so glad that they are one of our new advertisers. 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Dot Com and use the code unorthodox all in caps and you'll save twenty five percent off the single copy price that's flashing dot com code. Unorthodox rabbi has been on the show before he gave us his alternative take on Hanukkah and he's back for another Alz dot org dot control dot delete take on poor. He's explaining why the beloved holiday of Mask Ragas and Hamadan is not quite so pure innocent and uplifting as you were led to believe here's Lee out with Rabbi Ari. So our next week is porn and it's such a big holiday that. I understand that you have not won all take on this holiday but two so in a leap year and a Jewish leakier. There are two months of Dr so in honor of that tradition. I have to Hashtag holiday heartaches for you all right. I want to start with I which is something that I only read this year and have been obsessed with ever since so you know. We read them together. It seems like kind of a feel good story of Jews surviving. A kind of brush with death right here is Haman and he's plotting to destroy the Jewish people here esther there and mortar high and they're very brave and resilient and everyone feasts. Everyone celebrates we drink. We you know play with. Rocker is and yet. I read this stream of academic articles. Said argued that actually we should see the mcgilla very different as basically a satire on why. Jewish life anywhere else but the land of Israel is sad depleted. Maybe even impossible. Do you want to explain this? Take to me. Yeah so if you think about the conventional wisdom about the Perm Story. It's sort of like the template of a classical marvel superhero comic story. You have the you know peaceful citizens of metropolis or just minding their own business. These are the Jews of Persia living in Shusha which is the capital of the Persian empire. And then you have enter the genocidal maniac super villain engineers a plot to destroy them. That's done and then you have a mild mannered character with the Superhero Alter Ego. That's only revealed into a little bit into the story. So you have esther who's the queen of the Persian Empire and whose identity? Nobody knows all of a sudden at the climax of the story she reveals that she is really a dude that she steps into the phone booth takes off her glasses and all of a sudden. She's a Jewish super heroine and she manages to save the day and this is crucial in classic Mar in the Marvel Superhero. Comic tradition she dispatches the villain with only as much force as necessary to take down the super villain and it's a feel good story like you said it's redemption it saving the day but the permit satire story which you know. I go back and forth every other year. I am completely compelled by it another year. I'm compelled by another version of the story but it is really quite a convincing. Read of the mcgilla and it relies on what is just a very straightforward reading of the text of the Hebrew Biblical Book of Esther where it begins is by looking at the some of the key words that appear again and again throughout the story and some of the elements of the story and essentially saying. What's the message that these elements of the story are trying to teach us? So let me give you an example. The key word that appears most often throughout the entire tax is the WORD THE HEBREW WORD. Malek the word for King so kingship royalty is a theme of the mcgilla. And in fact you know from a superficial perspective the monarch of the Perm Story. Hush Aveiro Sh. That's the Persian Emperor Turkeys for those who are following along at home and have watched three hundred zirk. Survey Roche is presented at the beginning of the story as this all powerful king who rules the entire known world and yet the very first introduction to him that we have after this grandiloquent Soliloquy to his power is that he has this sort of like weird domestic squabble with his wife Ashti and instead of working it out with her it becomes a national affair and a national scandal that throws the entire empire into disarray throughout the entire book of Esther this Mela. This king doesn't make a single decision on his own He's constantly and easily manipulated by all of his advisors. Most of whom are acting in bad faith by the end of the story. He's contradicted every single decision. He's made at the beginning of the story and the only conclusion we can take away from. This is that the king is not really a kid. The most powerful person in the world is actually just an easily manipulated weekly. That's bearish give you another example. The other key word that appears dozens of tyrod two dozen times out. The story is the Persian loan. Were Dot which means law and Persia is presented as a society. That's grounded in the rule of law and yet the very first time that were ever introduced his word in the story of the mcgilla were told that I should aeros throws this enormous party. It lasts for one hundred and eighty days open bar. I assume right as he feels this incredible Sushi alone. Yeah and we're told that everything was done. According to the meticulous rules of the Persian court including drinking diaka dot the even the drinking was according to strict rules. But what was the strict rule of drinking an ace which in Hebrew means There were no rules. It's sort of like that scene Greece. Where like that guy in the cargoes? The only rule is there ain't no rules. So that's what Persia is the story of us there. Every single rule is either a farce flimsy or meant to be broken or just ignored altogether so persia is presented as the society of grounded in the rule of love really. It's this decadent. Hedonistic moral cesspool governed by an absolute idiot. Yeah right exactly. Thus far most commentators who have studied the book of Esther from ancient commentators to contemporary ones agree the Persian Empire that were introduced to in July stare unlike by the way the Persian Empire Ian counter throughout the rest of the Hebrew Bible is presented as a decadence terrible wasteland of a moral landscape where this paramus satire reading takes things even further. Is that You know in the last generation or generation or two some very excellent commentators have argued that not only are the villain or background characters or kind of stays dressing of the mcgilla meant to be satirical but even the Jewish heroes themselves are actually not really heroes at all and in fact they're trying to teach us a lesson namely that the perm story could only have ended in tragedy and doesn't tragedy so let me set the stage for you. So for example the Yasser average person on the street. Who's heard of the Perm Story? Name a hero from the Perm story. So they'll either tell you queen esther or if they know a little bit more they might tell you more to buy those two names should set us off from the very beginning the first time we're introduced the mortified who's the leader of the Jewish community in Persian. We're told he's a Jewish man Judean man and he lived in the capital and he was powerful and he was wonderful in his name was Mordechai. Mordechai is A he brea size form of the word Marmaduke. Who's the king of the Babylonian Pantheon and Esther is a version of the term star? Star was a goddess of the Babylonian Pantheon it would sort of be roughly equivalent to saying now. If you were telling a great Jewish story you know there was a heroic man. He was in the capital. He was the leader of the community and his name was Christopher Jefferson. Jesus Christian face right something like that. So we're already supposed to be alerted from the very beginning. That not all is right shoeshine and then you consider how the story goes. Think about what happened to the Jewish people you know. We're used to thinking that the story kind of takes place out of time. But if you think about what I told you earlier which is that the emperor of the story Akash Perish is that allows us to set the story in its chronological context a generation earlier. In the era of the reign of Xi's father an emperor name derives the Jews had actually rebuilt the temple in Jerusalem so as the story of paramus taking place there is a thriving Jewish community in the land of Israel with a temple. Doing it right doing it right doing it. The railway and consider even further than that think about the contrast between the of Esther and another biblical book called the Book of Nehemiah of Niamey. Ah That's the Hebrew version of the name in the book of Communist told about the valiant effort that some Jews who had been exiled from the land of Israel make to return to the land of Israel and rebuild the second temple refurbish the city of Jerusalem and reclaim Jewish roots and sovereignty in the land of Israel and the critical dramatic moment of the book of Nehemiah and the Book of Esther are actually identical and the contrast between them allows us to see that. The book of Esther is a satire. Not just the on the gentiles but on the Jews. Well and that critical moment is at in in both books. Esther Anyhow Maya a gentile king not just the gentile king. A Persian emperor asks a leader of the Jewish people. Tell me what your heart desires. Tell me what you want and I'll give it to you on behalf of my kingdom and I'll give it to you and in the story of Nehemiah when Nehemiah is asked your life in Persia comfortable. You're doing well you're successful but tell me what you want and I'll give it to you. He responds to the Persian emperor. By saying you know what I want Jewish destiny. I want to be returned to the land of Israel and I want to be able to rebuild the city of Jerusalem and I want to reclaim a Jewish community. That's thriving the land of Israel. He asks for the future of the Jewish people whereas in the book invest third. The ask is please. Please don't kill me. Don't kill us and by the time esther is done. The Jews are literally exactly where they were at the beginning of the story just peaceful citizens of metropolis. The nothing has changed and in fact the very last sentence of the book is that and by the way we're still paying taxes so the book ends with tax policy which is a weird choice if you think of the book of Esther as a straightforward exercise and spiritual advancement for the Jewish people at the end of the day. It's just Jews living outside the land of Israel. Doing exactly what they wer